# HMB supplement raises VO2max



## High Gear (Mar 9, 2002)

I don't think too many cyclist really know of this supplement. I used this when I was pushing my limits a few years back looking for an edge. It worked for me. Enabling me to stay near my max for longer periods of time. I think any cyclist that may be stuck and is looking to go to the next level should try this. I used EAS brand at the time. Like with other supplements, it will take about three weeks before you really see an increase in performance.

http://www.hmb.org/research/aerobic.cfm


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## Dwayne Barry (Feb 16, 2003)

I was unaware there was evidence to support it's use for endurance training. Thanks for the info., I'll check out the research.

From what I've seen the evidence for HMB being beneficial for increasing muscle mass/strength is fairly good, not quite but getting to the level of the support for the use of creatine. From what I've seen studies that don't support it, don't look at it for very long durations while those that do tend to be a few months or more.


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## Creakyknees (Sep 21, 2003)

this thread pertains to my interests.


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## iliveonnitro (Feb 19, 2006)

The articles are not available online, so I just requested them through my library at UW-Madison. They should be here within 2 days.

I will report on what the studies actually found after I get my hands on the white papers.


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## spade2you (May 12, 2009)

iliveonnitro said:


> The articles are not available online, so I just requested them through my library at UW-Madison. They should be here within 2 days.
> 
> I will report on what the studies actually found after I get my hands on the white papers.


Keep us posted. Most supplements are a little less than scientific.

I remember a prof of mine did an absorption study on a few creatine formulations using mouse stomach tissue and some sort of electronic diffusion model. Long (and boring) story short, not very great absorption and some weight lifter almost flipped out and said he was totally wrong. Not your typical discussion......


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## MarshallH1987 (Jun 17, 2009)

If i defeat that beefy dude on the side do i win a date with the girl or something?

HMB seems like it could provide some benefits just like all other supplements claim to but i could only find evidence of one study done on humans.

As for creatine it is the only supplement that isn't banned that seems to give any real benefit. My nutrition and sports performance teacher showed us a chart that compared the benefits of using different substances whether banned or legal and creatine only showed something like .01% increase in performance. (blood doping and epo each had 8% increase in performance just so you can compare).


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## Peanya (Jun 12, 2008)

Creakyknees said:


> this thread pertains to my interests.


Definitely. I'll wait on the reports as well. Where would you get this? GNC or something?


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## smbrum (Jul 9, 2008)

Peanya said:


> Definitely. I'll wait on the reports as well. Where would you get this? GNC or something?


i looked around and GNC has an actual HMB brand. When I looked at the lablel though it didnt appear to be the same stuff as shown in the link. When you do go to that link there is a "Buy Now" button that takes you to a page with several products. No too expensive if it actuall does something. 

Waiting to hear more from iliveonitro or others who have some experience with it.


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## spade2you (May 12, 2009)

MarshallH1987 said:


> If i defeat that beefy dude on the side do i win a date with the girl or something?


Depends. How much ya bench?


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## iliveonnitro (Feb 19, 2006)

This is very interesting because HMB actually shows promise in the three studies I will look at.

I made a really long reply, so I posted it to my blog. You can read it at: http://iliveonnitro.blogspot.com

There are two more papers to review. I will hopefully do those both today. The next one is on aerobic performance, so hopefully it will have some more benefit than this first paper found. The third one is on cyclists, specifically. The article is not available to me online, so my library is currently getting it. It should be here today or tomorrow.


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## stevesbike (Jun 3, 2002)

the cited literature looks pretty shaky to me. There's a 2005 review, Beta-hydroxy-beta-Methylbutyrate and its use in athletics (Palisin T, Stacy JJ.), with conclusion below. The only new report listed on the website is a 2007 using untrained subjects (unrepresentative sample etc). 

end of abstract: "HMB use in those athletes involved in regular high-intensity exercise has not been proven to be beneficial when multiple variables are evaluated. Unlike other ergogenics, with HMB no adverse events have been reported in association with short-term use. Despite these findings, HMB cannot be recommended as an ergogenic until further studies in larger groups reproduce early data."


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## High Gear (Mar 9, 2002)

stevesbike said:


> the cited literature looks pretty shaky to me. There's a 2005 review, Beta-hydroxy-beta-Methylbutyrate and its use in athletics (Palisin T, Stacy JJ.), with conclusion below. The only new report listed on the website is a 2007 using untrained subjects (unrepresentative sample etc).
> 
> end of abstract: "HMB use in those athletes involved in regular high-intensity exercise has not been proven to be beneficial when multiple variables are evaluated. Unlike other ergogenics, with HMB no adverse events have been reported in association with short-term use. Despite these findings, HMB cannot be recommended as an ergogenic until further studies in larger groups reproduce early data."


I first read about HMB in Bill Phillips supplment manual years ago. From what I read it looked promising for sustaining hard aerobic efforts. At the time I was in the gym alot working hard on my cardio. So in a way I was in a controlled environment knowing what I could do for how long on a certain machine. All I'm saying is that I DID notice my ability to last longer and go harder at the high end of my aerobic threshold.


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## MarshallH1987 (Jun 17, 2009)

spade2you said:


> Depends. How much ya bench?


don't do bench anymore with any kind of weight anyway... still able to do more than i weigh 10 times but no where near my old max.

back to the vo2 supplement stuff i liked this stuff:
http://www.firstendurance.com/nutrition/control/product/~product_id=82008
I'm not sure if it actually boosts performance or makes you faster but when i was taking that and the non HP version i never felt pain or like i was working all that hard even when I was at my max. No idea if i was going faster but i sure felt better.


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## Dwayne Barry (Feb 16, 2003)

I haven't looked at the articles cited yet but...

I would be surprised if it helped endurance performance. HMB works by decreasing protein breakdown thereby influencing lean tissue mass. One would think, and this is what the evidence suggests, if it were ergogenic it would be in the realm of increasing muscle mass/strength from strength training, i.e. similar to anabolic steroids, testosterone, and creatine.

Endurance performance is overwhelmingly about improving oxygen delivery and use. Typically anabolic agents show little if any effect on endurance performance.


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## CLTracer (Aug 21, 2004)

MarshallH1987 said:


> don't do bench anymore with any kind of weight anyway... still able to do more than i weigh 10 times but no where near my old max.
> 
> back to the vo2 supplement stuff i liked this stuff:
> http://www.firstendurance.com/nutrition/control/product/~product_id=82008
> I'm not sure if it actually boosts performance or makes you faster but when i was taking that and the non HP version i never felt pain or like i was working all that hard even when I was at my max. No idea if i was going faster but i sure felt better.


Wow, you just described EXACTLY how i would describe my experience with Optygen HP from First Endurance. It seems to have a very calming effect and when I was at threshold, I felt like i was just cruising. Personally, I think the stuff works and I've suggested it to several people. don't ask me the hows and whys, though.


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## High Gear (Mar 9, 2002)

*OK, it's been a month since I posted on HMB.*

Have any of you started taking it?


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## MarshallH1987 (Jun 17, 2009)

I haven't yet but might try it out once i stop being sick and can get back to training.


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## Zilla (Aug 17, 2009)

you dudes should look into beta-alanine...for somewhat different reasons, but I was just thinking about cycling supplements.


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## BeeCharmer (Apr 30, 2003)

Shouldn't this discussion be moved to the doping forum? 

Only half kidding.


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## stevesbike (Jun 3, 2002)

BeeCharmer said:


> Shouldn't this discussion be moved to the doping forum?
> 
> Only half kidding.


why - it's not on the UCI list of banned substances (*and for that reason probably not effective...).

http://www.uci.ch/Modules/BUILTIN/g...bjTypeCode=FILE&type=FILE&id=MzQxNzI&LangId=1


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## iliveonnitro (Feb 19, 2006)

Zilla said:


> you dudes should look into beta-alanine...for somewhat different reasons, but I was just thinking about cycling supplements.


Read this: http://evidencebasedfitness.blogspot.com/

He's the only blog to which I subscribe. He's a Dr. and has a PhD, and peer-reviews studies. Top notch information.

I will not take beta-alanine and he explains the reason why. He writes a lot about it.


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## Zilla (Aug 17, 2009)

iliveonnitro said:


> Read this: http://evidencebasedfitness.blogspot.com/
> 
> He's the only blog to which I subscribe. He's a Dr. and has a PhD, and peer-reviews studies. Top notch information.
> 
> I will not take beta-alanine and he explains the reason why. He writes a lot about it.


Thanks broski, I haven't seen that before..and really like that it's free.

A favorite "guru" of mine, and someone I think you may enjoy (if you haven't come across him already) is Lyle McDonald. A real no BS type of guy, reviews both training, and nutrition/supplementation. His free newsletter is great.
http://www.bodyrecomposition.com/

If you're into the nutrition aspect of things, might I suggest Aragon's research reviews...I think you might enjoy them.
http://www.alanaragon.com/


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## stevesbike (Jun 3, 2002)

Chung appears to only review a few of the papers on beta-alanine and it's not exactly hard to find methodological flaws in the exercise physiology literature. At least with beta-alanine there's a clear underlying mechanism - it raises muscle carnosine concentration (and this can be quantified in humans noninvasively with proton MRS). Right there beta-alanine is a few major steps ahead of most other supplements (which appear to do little more than produce expensive urine)!


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## iliveonnitro (Feb 19, 2006)

stevesbike said:


> Chung appears to only review a few of the papers on beta-alanine and it's not exactly hard to find methodological flaws in the exercise physiology literature. At least with beta-alanine there's a clear underlying mechanism - it raises muscle carnosine concentration (and this can be quantified in humans noninvasively with proton MRS). Right there beta-alanine is a few major steps ahead of most other supplements (which appear to do little more than produce expensive urine)!


What articles would you recommend reading?


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## smbrum (Jul 9, 2008)

Zilla said:


> you dudes should look into beta-alanine...for somewhat different reasons, but I was just thinking about cycling supplements.


so what is this supposed to do? do you take it and if so, does it work?


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## stevesbike (Jun 3, 2002)

iliveonnitro said:


> What articles would you recommend reading?


These look worth a look:

Smith, Abbie E, et al. "Effects of beta-alanine supplementation and high-intensity interval training on endurance performance and body composition in men; a double-blind trial." Journal of the International Society of Sports Nutrition 6(2009):5.

Van Thienen, Ruud, et al. "Beta-alanine improves sprint performance in endurance cycling." Medicine and science in sports and exercise 41.4 (2009):898-903.

Derave, Wim, et al. "beta-Alanine supplementation augments muscle carnosine content and attenuates fatigue during repeated isokinetic contraction bouts in trained sprinters." Journal of applied physiology 103.5 (2007):1736-43.


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## Zilla (Aug 17, 2009)

smbrum said:


> so what is this supposed to do? do you take it and if so, does it work?


Look at what Steve just posted. My anecdotes are from lifting..but I seemed to be able to get extra reps out in the higher rep ranges when I used it. I may try using it again now that I'm cycling a good bit more.


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## stevesbike (Jun 3, 2002)

you can also look at first endurance's website for general info since beta-alanine is in Optygen HP (1 gram per serving). Note that beta-alanine also causes a tingling sensation similar to 'pins and needles' which is 'normal' and not an allergic reaction


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## smbrum (Jul 9, 2008)

i picked up some beta-alanine at GNC last night to give it a try. it was on sale for like $16 so I thought what the heck. from what I had read theres not any real side-effects, at least nothing dangerous, so I figured what the heck. as always, I am on the hunt for that magic pill. Anyway, I did get the tingling sensation but it was very faint and only lasted 10 minutes or so. It was about like having your hand fall asleep and getting those pins & needles only not nearly as noticeable. 

does anyone know if there is a loading phase on this supplement before you see any significant results? Usually most supplements have something like 4-6 weeks but I havent heard any testimonials on b-analine.


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## Zilla (Aug 17, 2009)

smbrum said:


> i picked up some beta-alanine at GNC last night to give it a try. it was on sale for like $16 so I thought what the heck. from what I had read theres not any real side-effects, at least nothing dangerous, so I figured what the heck. as always, I am on the hunt for that magic pill. Anyway, I did get the tingling sensation but it was very faint and only lasted 10 minutes or so. It was about like having your hand fall asleep and getting those pins & needles only not nearly as noticeable.
> 
> does anyone know if there is a loading phase on this supplement before you see any significant results? Usually most supplements have something like 4-6 weeks but I havent heard any testimonials on b-analine.


IIRC just a few days. I would make sure to take ~3-4g split up into two doses.


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## BeeCharmer (Apr 30, 2003)

*where is the line?*



stevesbike said:


> why - it's not on the UCI list of banned substances (*and for that reason probably not effective...).
> 
> http://www.uci.ch/Modules/BUILTIN/g...bjTypeCode=FILE&type=FILE&id=MzQxNzI&LangId=1


Hmm, check out the first line above the list: 

"The use of ANY DRUG should be limited to medically justified indications."


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## function (Jun 20, 2008)

BeeCharmer said:


> Hmm, check out the first line above the list:
> 
> "The use of ANY DRUG should be limited to medically justified indications."


:thumbsup:


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## brlscience (Sep 6, 2009)

I agree with Barry...endurance performance is overwhelmingly about improving oxygen delivery and use


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