# Jens...what about him?



## the mayor (Jul 8, 2004)

It wasn't just Lance and George and Levi....it was most of the peleton.
And Jens was on a few teams that had issues. And I can't see him being the only guy standing in the hotel hallway while it was all going down.
I'm love the guy...but let's be serious....


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## lemonlime (Sep 24, 2003)

Nothing should surprise us anymore.

Would be a bummer, though.


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## kbiker3111 (Nov 7, 2006)

You mean the guy who grew up in East Germany and joined their state sporting school? The guy who successfully raced through the EPO era? That guy? Nooooooooooooo, he didn't do drugs.


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## RRRoubaix (Aug 27, 2008)

kbiker3111 said:


> You mean the guy who grew up in East Germany and joined their state sporting school? The guy who successfully raced through the EPO era? That guy? Nooooooooooooo, he didn't do drugs.


:lol: Yeah, that was my first thought when I saw this thread title.
Just goes to show that not all dopers are evil...


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## Daren (Jul 25, 2008)

I don't really buy that any of them were evil per se, just trying to get paid doing what they loved.


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## Dwayne Barry (Feb 16, 2003)

Daren said:


> I don't really buy that any of them were evil per se, just trying to get paid doing what they loved.


I agree. I never really thought all that badly about Armstrong for doping, it's other aspects of his personality that make him pretty unlikeable.


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## JoelS (Aug 25, 2008)

Omerta is still in force.


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## bmxhacksaw (Mar 26, 2008)

Dwayne Barry said:


> I agree. I never really thought all that badly about Armstrong for doping, it's other aspects of his personality that make him pretty unlikeable.


^^^This^^^


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## spade2you (May 12, 2009)

RRRoubaix said:


> :lol: Yeah, that was my first thought when I saw this thread title.
> Just goes to show that not all dopers are evil...


It's not like they had much of a choice, dope to keep up or get a day job.


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## zosocane (Aug 29, 2004)

the mayor said:


> ....it was most of the peleton.


Most? I think it was almost all of the peloton before 2008/2009. Maybe the mechanics were clean. 

Not enough can be said about 2008-2009 as the period when things started to slowly turn around. Two key things happened: (i) Garmin-Slipstream with their vocal anti-doping culture and (ii) Anne Griper's UCI passport program. Not a coincidence that in the grand tours starting in 2008 and 2009 we saw mountain stages with attacks coming not with 5 km to go but 1.5 km to go. 

Cycling still has a long way to go (micro-doping no doubt exists), but it appears to be on the right path.


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## RkFast (Dec 11, 2004)

kbiker3111 said:


> You mean the guy who grew up in East Germany and joined their state sporting school? The guy who successfully raced through the EPO era? That guy? Nooooooooooooo, he didn't do drugs.


And in his late 30s and now early 40s can jump to the head of the field, stick his nose into the wind and pull the whole damned train along for hours on end?

Nah.....hes CLEAN!


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## the mayor (Jul 8, 2004)

fornaca68 said:


> Most? I think it was almost all of the peloton before 2008/2009. Maybe the mechanics were clean.
> 
> Not enough can be said about 2008-2009 as the period when things started to slowly turn around. Two key things happened: (i) Garmin-Slipstream with their vocal anti-doping culture and (ii) Anne Griper's UCI passport program. Not a coincidence that in the grand tours starting in 2008 and 2009 we saw mountain stages with attacks coming not with 5 km to go but 1.5 km to go.
> 
> Cycling still has a long way to go (micro-doping no doubt exists), but it appears to be on the right path.


Most = almost all....so we're agreeing, right?
And according to the confessions ( which = plea bargains for off season suspensions)) all those guys stopped doping cold turkey in 2006...so 08 and 09 have to be clean, right? ( I'm kidding and agreeing with you)
And I agree...cycling...and every other sport has a long way to go.


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## cda 455 (Aug 9, 2010)

kbiker3111 said:


> You mean the guy who* grew up in East Germany and joined their state sporting school*? The guy who successfully raced through the EPO era? That guy? Nooooooooooooo, he didn't do drugs.


That's probably the biggest damning bit of possible evidence for me  .




It's like finding out that Cinderella was really a hooker in the original folklore story.


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## YamaDan (Aug 28, 2012)

cda 455 said:


> It's like finding out that Cinderella was really a hooker in the original folklore story.


You know what she said when she finally reached the ball??


"Mmmffttggggagggulp"


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## pretender (Sep 18, 2007)




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## cda 455 (Aug 9, 2010)

pretender said:


>



Ah; The motoman in the middle?


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## MarkS (Feb 3, 2004)

*Meet & Greet With Jens and RadioShack Nissan Trek Riders 
Date: October 20, 2012 @ 2:00 pm to 4:00 pm
Location: Mellow Johnny's Bike Shop
400 Nueces



Meet the Riders of RADIOSHACK NISSAN TREK & BONTRAGER LIVESTRONG • 2PM-4PM
Mellow Johnny's is excited to host members of the RADIOSHACK NISSAN TREK Pro Cycling Team for an interactive Q&A followed by an autograph signing. Riders scheduled to appear:

--Markel Irizar (cancer survivor)
--Tiago Machado (stage racing specialist)
--Ben King (2010 US Pro Champ)
--Matthew Busche (2011 US Pro Champ)
-- THE Jens Voigt! arguably THE most popular rider in cycling today

We'll also have riders from the BONTRAGER LIVESTRONG Pro-Continental team:

--Connor O’Leary (cancer survivor)
--Joe Dombrowski
--Lawson Craddock
--and Axel Merckx (Bontrager LIVESTRONG Team Director)

Mellow Johnny’s will be selling a limited number of commemorative posters for the signing. Posters are $15 and proceeds will benefit the Lance Armstrong Foundation. There is a 1-item limit on signing of personal items.*

Birds of a feather . . .


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## Cinelli 82220 (Dec 2, 2010)

spade2you said:


> It's not like they had much of a choice, dope to keep up or get a day job.


Is being honest and working for a living such a bad thing?

Millions of people get up every morning and go to work.


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## David Loving (Jun 13, 2008)

spade2you said:


> It's not like they had much of a choice, dope to keep up or get a day job.


That was the choice.


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## burgrat (Nov 18, 2005)

MarkS said:


> Meet & Greet With Jens and RadioShack Nissan Trek Riders
> Date: October 20, 2012 @ 2:00 pm to 4:00 pm
> Location: Mellow Johnny's Bike Shop
> 400 Nueces
> ...


Uh, no thanks.


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## Cableguy (Jun 6, 2010)

Cinelli 82220 said:


> Is being honest and working for a living such a bad thing?
> 
> Millions of people get up every morning and go to work.


Well they too got up every morning and went to work (on the bike). The problem is they were not aware PEDs were required to be successful at the job until after already devoting most if not all their lives to it. All the years of hard work, training, and devotion was on the table. So like others have pointed out it was pretty much walk away, give up your life's passion, and throw away what you had been working up to for most or all your life... *or* take PEDs. At that point if they had declined to take PEDs but still tried to race clean, they would have just knowingly been going nowhere with their careers. 

Turns out most of the guys we're talking about here ended up being quite successful and making a nice living, but what about the ones who are still out there playing the game on PEDs but with not a whole lot to show for it? Do you feel differently for them, even though they too made the same decision?


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## brentley (Jul 20, 2008)

kbiker3111 said:


> You mean the guy who grew up in East Germany and joined their state sporting school? The guy who successfully raced through the EPO era? That guy? Nooooooooooooo, he didn't do drugs.


This is the best answer so far; at this point it is impossible to believe that he did not and his results at age 40 sort of bear this out.


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## TerminatorX91 (Mar 27, 2011)

*Like*



Dwayne Barry said:


> I agree. I never really thought all that badly about Armstrong for doping, it's other aspects of his personality that make him pretty unlikeable.


.....


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## fontarin (Mar 28, 2009)

Dwayne Barry said:


> I agree. I never really thought all that badly about Armstrong for doping, it's other aspects of his personality that make him pretty unlikeable.


Yep, pretty much it for me too. If he had just doped and not tried to destroy people along the way, I'd give him a bit of a break considering the era.


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## moskowe (Mar 14, 2011)

How anyone could ever think that Jens Voigt was racing clean is beyond me. I get that most people are naive, but seriously ? Let's review his career, shall we:
East Germany born and raised, sports school. That should already tell you enough. 
CA during the nice period with "remorse-guy" Vaughters, Bobby Julich, etc...
CSC with Mr. 60% with Basso, Hamilton, Cancellara, all the good ones. 
And then top it off with RSNT and Bruyneel.

For all you know they're all still doping. Maybe not EPO for him, because it's useless with his age, but a little recovery testosterone ? It gets hard racing at over 40 years old, I'm sure Horner can agree.


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## SicBith (Jan 21, 2008)

Cableguy said:


> Well they too got up every morning and went to work (on the bike). The problem is they were not aware PEDs were required to be successful at the job until after already devoting most if not all their lives to it. All the years of hard work, training, and devotion was on the table. So like others have pointed out it was pretty much walk away, give up your life's passion, and throw away what you had been working up to for most or all your life... *or* take PEDs. At that point if they had declined to take PEDs but still tried to race clean, they would have just knowingly been going nowhere with their careers.
> 
> Turns out most of the guys we're talking about here ended up being quite successful and making a nice living, but what about the ones who are still out there playing the game on PEDs but with not a whole lot to show for it? Do you feel differently for them, even though they too made the same decision?


I believe after each rider made the choice to pursue a career in cycling they knew at that time what it would take to be a team leader or to ride for a pro tour level team. Though it may have been a unspoken truth to the cycling community it seemed to be a spoken reality in the peloton.


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## LostViking (Jul 18, 2008)

Would be saddened if Jens did what he is assumed to have done here - have always been a fan.

But this is prime time for doper confessions - they should all come forward now - can't suspend them all, half the peloton would disappear overnight.

Jens should be given equal treatment (six month suspension, victories stripped, return any prize monies) if he comes forward on his own and confesses.


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## YamaDan (Aug 28, 2012)

LostViking said:


> - can't suspend them all, half the peloton would disappear overnight.


Maybe that's what needs to happen..


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## danl1 (Jul 23, 2005)

a) Yeah, probably. OK, almost certainly.

b) His results aren't why I'm a fan, so in a sense, whether or not he's a part of the 'everyone' that was doing it sort of doesn't matter. Clean or dirty, he still rides like a knucklehead (meant affectionately) and seems to have a great sense of humor and be a genuinely interesting person.


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## rydbyk (Feb 17, 2010)

Dwayne Barry said:


> I agree. I never really thought all that badly about Armstrong for doping, it's other aspects of his personality that make him pretty unlikeable.


+1. The WAY he did things. Weird, but that is the difference when comparing him to other dopers.


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## orange_julius (Jan 24, 2003)

kbiker3111 said:


> You mean the guy who grew up in East Germany and joined their state sporting school? The guy who successfully raced through the EPO era? That guy? Nooooooooooooo, he didn't do drugs.


Repped!

Although to be fair, he did a stint at Credit Agricole, arguably a clean team at the time if you believe the insistence of Vaughters.


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## Solopc (Sep 9, 2008)

LostViking said:


> Would be saddened if Jens did what he is assumed to have done here - have always been a fan.
> 
> But this is prime time for doper confessions - they should all come forward now - can't suspend them all, half the peloton would disappear overnight.
> 
> Jens should be given equal treatment (six month suspension, victories stripped, return any prize monies) if he comes forward on his own and confesses.


Why not suspend them all if there's enough proof? So long as the punishments are consistent... This might give young riders who are coming up a shot if they're clean. I'd sure as shite watch that on tv!


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## gregario (Nov 19, 2001)

danl1 said:


> a) Yeah, probably. OK, almost certainly.
> 
> b) His results aren't why I'm a fan, so in a sense, whether or not he's a part of the 'everyone' that was doing it sort of doesn't matter. Clean or dirty, he still rides like a knucklehead (meant affectionately) and seems to have a great sense of humor and be a genuinely interesting person.


I am (or maybe was) a big fan of Jens. But I was really disappointed when he was mentioned in Tyler's book as giving him the cold shoulder during a race after Tyler was said to be singing like a canary. I guess I'll have to get rid of my "what would Jens do" t-shirt.


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## danl1 (Jul 23, 2005)

gregario said:


> I am (or maybe was) a big fan of Jens. But I was really disappointed when he was mentioned in Tyler's book as giving him the cold shoulder during a race after Tyler was said to be singing like a canary. I guess I'll have to get rid of my "what would Jens do" t-shirt.


Yeah.... I guess I'm saying that I don't place athletes on pedestals anyway, and human beings are complex. I can be a fan, without engaging in hero worship. This all breaks agains the 'hero' portion of fandom, but doesn't impact the 'interesting person' dimension to quite the same extent. So, no attempt to justify, rationalize, or excuse the behaviors. He's still fun to watch, and that's enough. 

And yes, if true, he should be pegged for it.


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## loubnc (May 8, 2008)

I'll take the shirt


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## Rashadabd (Sep 17, 2011)

Jens answered the question point blank today. I hope that it is true (thought it's tough to know what to believe at this point):

Jens Voigt says Johan Bruyneel’s departure was the right move


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## cda 455 (Aug 9, 2010)

Rashadabd said:


> Jens answered the question point blank today. I hope that it is true (thought it's tough to know what to believe at this point):
> 
> Jens Voigt says Johan Bruyneel’s departure was the right move


Thanks for the link!


I hope it's true as well.


> *Jens Voigt:*
> “You ask if I doped? Ok here is the answer. No I did not dope in the past, I don’t do it now and not planning to in the future.


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## superg (May 9, 2010)

"Shut up legs ! Don't say a word about the EPO !!"


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## JoelS (Aug 25, 2008)

Sorry to say that I don't believe Jens. Omerta remains in force. Until there is a change at the UCI, there will be no change in the peloton.


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## Local Hero (Jul 8, 2010)

He rides hard. And he talks funny and writes a blog that makes me laugh. I actually don't care if he doped. Same goes for the remainder of the rout we know as professional cycling. I'm a grown man and racing my bike is a hobby. Pro cycling? It's WWF.


spade2you said:


> It's not like they had much of a choice, dope to keep up or get a day job.


Exactly. 

And we can't expect them to give up their salaries and childhood fantasies and *gasp* get a day job like the rest of us...


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## Ventruck (Mar 9, 2009)

Jens and Cancellara have seemingly highly dismissive attitudes and act like total homers when it comes to their own (existing) team members. 

They were also like this about Contador on his doping case, Frank's case, leaving Andy behind in 2010. They weren't consist on the "wait for GC contenders" stance. Stopped the damn world for Andy in an early, never actually waited for Contador when he got setback - both that year and in 2011 when Contador got Karpetsmashed. 

I like those two as riders but when it comes to this it's pretty annoying.


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## Cableguy (Jun 6, 2010)

Local Hero said:


> And we can't expect them to give up their salaries and childhood fantasies and *gasp* get a day job like the rest of us...


My job is boring and mundane, so everyone else should have a boring and mundane job too!


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## cda 455 (Aug 9, 2010)

superg said:


> "Shut up legs ! Don't say a word about the EPO !!"



:lol: :eek6:


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## moskowe (Mar 14, 2011)

He is obviously lying to save his ass, like everyone else. He rode for Riis and didn't dope ? Please. Then he counsciously makes the decision to go with Bruyneel when he has to know what went on 10 years before, because everyone knows ? 

I really want to like Jens Voigt. I used to like him until he started blogging, then I realized his personality didn't seem to correspond completely with his public image...


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## terzo rene (Mar 23, 2002)

I think Jens has been to the LA school of PR. If you're going to lie, go all in.


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## sir duke (Mar 24, 2006)

He's done the math, realises his image will help him ease into a career after cycling and he's lying with his future in mind. Obviously doesn't give a rat's arse about the young guys coming up or the way the sport will move into the future. Shut up, Jens!


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