# Tuft is DOPED too!



## Realgains (Jul 16, 2008)

I am sick and bloody tired of Svein Tuft shouting off about how clean he is!


Please read below gents from a poster on another forum.


OK, so check this out... basically this seems even more questionable than legit tents...
http://www.altolab-usa.com/

If you click on the "perform better" tab, then testimonials they quote Sven Tuft: (partial quote)..."In fact, a few riders have increased their Hct to over 50% (using AltoLab)"

Is it possible that there is a snow ball's chance there is actually a benefit to this product... or is this product just a cheaper more convenient, than altitude tent, way to explain why your crit is 50%. 



My reply>>>>

hmmmm


Tulf is full of it.....if anyone got a crit above 50% it was due to epo use.
But you could use this device as a"cover up" for your new year round 49-50% crit...your parameters for the "passport" Tuft forgot to read the "study" by Altolab on this very machine....and Tuft why the hell would you give away the team secret anyway?


Words below from the company web site!!! TUFT YOU SUCK for saying what you said...not because you dope but because you were those socks that say "dopers suck".
Take them off Tulf!

Below are statements from the Altolabs own research on the intermittent hypoxic machine that Symetrics supposedly uses.

"hematological characteristics: the measurement
of erythropoesis (the making of new red
blood cells), resulted in no significant changes
for either group from PRE to POST."

"physiological parameters: VO2 Index and
Lactate Index did not change from PRE to POST in
either the constant or progressive altitude groups."



FIMS Position Statement on the use of intermittent hypoxia machines...

Current data suggest that exposure
times of 16 hours and more per day at
oxygen fractions corresponding to an
altitude of ≥2500 m are needed to
increase Hb mass and aerobic
performance in endurance trained
athletes........Very short (≤ 3 hours/d) and
intermittent exposures to normobaric
hypoxia using oxygen fractions
corresponding to an altitude up to 6000
m do not stimulate erythropoesis or
improve VO2 max and performance.

Recent reports from a well-controlled trial indicate that 4 weeks of 5 : 5 min intermittent hypoxia exposures (corresponding to an altitude up to 6000m) for 70 min lasting 3 hours per day have no effect on VO2max, performance during a 3000 m time trial and erythropoesis

http://www.fims.org/files/311417173...0Jan 2006.pdf




Not only that but even full blown altitude tents cannot raise your crit much. I have talked to several manufacturers and they all say the same thing....you can get a few point increase and that's it and you would be very lucky to get a 48 even if you started at 45 and most guys are not 45% and especially not most aerobic athletes....as we tend to run low re: increased plasma volumes.

Besides....even if you could get a 48 it's still "cheating" because you would be doing what most guys cannot afford to do and you are raising crit beyound your natural level, which is unnatural and cheating.... so you might as well do epo.

Good luck recovering from hard training while sleeping at 10,000 plus feet equivalence.




.


RG


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## Cyclo-phile (Sep 22, 2005)

Come back when you have more proof and less speculation.


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## Realgains (Jul 16, 2008)

Cyclo-phile said:


> Come back when you have more proof and less speculation.



 LOL laughing like Butthead

RG


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## cocoboots (Apr 13, 2006)

Cyclo-phile said:


> Come back when you have more proof and less speculation.


+1 loosen your tinfoil hat


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## wipeout (Jun 6, 2005)

Cyclo-phile said:


> Come back when you have more proof and less speculation.


Yeah, really. This "Realgains" n00b is showing off what an azzhat he is.


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## Realgains (Jul 16, 2008)

Read the post you guys....Altolabs own research on their product, that Tuft claims gives a 50% plus crit, says that it does not increase hct/hbg.

Guys Tuft stated that some on his team have hit a 50% or more crit with this use of this machine....the machine is a "cover up" for a high crit at the legal limit.
Contact Altolabs yourself and ask them if their machine raises crit.

So Symetrics did not get to 50% with this machine.

RG


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## Marc (Jan 23, 2005)

wipeout said:


> Yeah, really. This "Realgains" n00b is showing off what an azzhat he is.


The nice thing being, that usually folks who start posting around TdF, disappear after TdF is over.


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## blackhat (Jan 2, 2003)

theheadinthesandclub said:


> Yeah, really. This "Realgains" n00b is showing off what an azzhat he is.
> 
> +1 loosen your tinfoil hat
> 
> ...



per the norm, attack the messenger not the message.


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## mohair_chair (Oct 3, 2002)

blackhat said:


> per the norm, attack the messenger not the message.


I find both to be rather confusing.


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## lookrider (Dec 3, 2006)

mohair_chair said:


> I find both to be rather confusing.


Well, that statement can cut both ways.....

and I think he has made some real contributions here....


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## Under ACrookedSky (Nov 8, 2005)

Realgains said:


> Current data suggest that exposure
> times of 16 hours and more per day at
> oxygen fractions corresponding to an
> altitude of ≥2500 m are needed to
> ...


I am no expert but the stuff I have read says the same thing. Initial research looked promising but subsequent, better designed studies have failed to show much improvement. Maybe I am cynical, but I tend to think that these hypoxic and altitude products as somewhat of a scam. They promise results equivalent to EPO but it just isn't true.

Any athlete who claims they are maintaining a 50% Hct with an altitude tent is very suspect. You can get a couple of percentage points, maybe three, but the six or seven required for most well trained endurance athletes to get to 50 is not going to happen.



Realgains said:


> Good luck recovering from hard training while sleeping at 10,000 plus feet equivalence.


This is one thing I have always wondered about. I live pretty high, and I have done a quite bit of mountaineering. Elite athletes beating the crap out of their bodies and then sleeping at a simulated 10 - 12K has always seemed suspicious.


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## mohair_chair (Oct 3, 2002)

lookrider said:


> and I think he has made some real contributions here....


Your standards are pretty low, so that's not saying much. I do agree that what he posted is interesting.


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## Realgains (Jul 16, 2008)

Personally I like the Altolabs quote from their own research on their own intermittent hypoxia machine that has supposedly raised some crits on Symetrics to 50% and more(Tulfs own words).

The following quote makes it pretty clear that Tuft is BS-ing.

"hematological characteristics: the measurement
of erythropoesis (the making of new red
blood cells), resulted in no significant changes
for either group from PRE to POST."


And to back that up they issued more in this quote

"physiological parameters: VO2 Index and
Lactate Index did not change from PRE to POST in
either the constant or progressive altitude groups."

When you get a 50% or more crit your power at threshold and VO2max goes through the roof relative to what you had before. Been there...done that 



Tulf is BS-ing about the success they had with Altolabs machine...if indeed they even used it more than a few times.

I don't how much clearer this can be guys. Some on Symetrics have a crit of 50% or higher as per Tufts own admission and they sure the hell didn't achieve this with Altolabs intermittent hypoxia machine. THEY ARE DOPED ON EPO and or blood dope with their own saved up frozen packed cells. These are the ONLY ways to get a 50 or higher crit unless you live at 12,000 plus feet for a few months and come down to train each day.


RG


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## mohair_chair (Oct 3, 2002)

Why would Altolabs release research that shows that their machine doesn't really work? That would seem to have a negative impact on sales!


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## Realgains (Jul 16, 2008)

mohair_chair said:


> Why would Altolabs release research that shows that their machine doesn't really work? That would seem to have a negative impact on sales!



They say it helps performance in "other ways' bro....but it does not increase red cell count or VO2 max. Check out there research on their web site.

RG


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## shorelocal (Jan 12, 2007)

Realgains said:


> I don't how much clearer this can be guys. Some on Symetrics have a crit of 50% or higher as per Tufts own admission and they sure the hell didn't achieve this with Altolabs intermittent hypoxia machine. THEY ARE DOPED ON EPO and or blood dope with their own saved up frozen packed cells. These are the ONLY ways to get a 50 or higher crit unless you live at 12,000 plus feet for a few months and come down to train each day.


That's a pretty big leap from reviewing their "claims" on a sponsor's? website to saying they are hopped up on EPO. Perhaps Tuft is making false claims ... without seeing the test results, it's unprovable if the 50% claim is even valid?


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## Realgains (Jul 16, 2008)

shorelocal said:


> That's a pretty big leap from reviewing their "claims" on a sponsor's? website to saying they are hopped up on EPO. Perhaps Tuft is making false claims ... without seeing the test results, it's unprovable if the 50% claim is even valid?



Tuft has told the world that guys on his team have a 50 or higher crit...he has made a huge admission ..and a big mistake. He thought he was pretty smart doing this and attributing these crits to a machine but he F-ed up and didn't do his research on the machine before spouting off.

He is either making false claims without seeing those 50% plus crits and without proper research into the evidence, OR more likely, it's a cover for epo use. 

Guys you ever wonder why Tuft can kick the asses of very good pro's in a climb when those pro's are 40 pounds lighter than him. Tuft is a short tank..and races at between 165 and 170! If you have tried epo you would know why he was able to do this.

Thing is if I was looking for a cover it would be a altitude tent and not a little intermittent hypoxic machine. Yet that said, that little machine can easily be taken around the country races for other to see and a tent would not be.

Guys..there are only three ways to get to 50% or more. #1 epo., #2 living, not just sleeping, at very high altitude for a long time...and you just can't train well living at the required altitude and nor can you recover well, or #3 by blood doping with your own frozen packed cells.

Thing is in order to get those packed cells you have to siphon off lots of blood, spin off the plasma, add glycerol and deep freeze quickly and evenly spaced too. This usually requires that a rider disappear in the early off season to jack with epo. Alternatively you can take a unit out once every 50 days or so and not use epo..but that isn't done in pro cycling very much.


RG


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## footballcat (Jul 8, 2004)

alto lab works

i have seen the stats behind it


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## Realgains (Jul 16, 2008)

footballcat said:


> alto lab works
> 
> i have seen the stats behind it



It can help in some ways...but it does not raise hematocrit bro as per the companies own research. Tuft is BS-ing and in my opinion using this machine as a "cover' for 50% crits.


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## hooligan (Sep 30, 2006)

Dude...Symmetrics is a small budget team that is seeing their title sponsors pack it in due to the devaluation of the u.s. dollar in Canada. Svein Tuft lives in a trailer on the team owners property and the team itself basically have campfire cookouts when travelling to save money rather than dine out. These guys can't afford illegal doping products and the whole team principle is based on clean cycling.


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## Realgains (Jul 16, 2008)

hooligan said:


> Dude...Symmetrics is a small budget team that is seeing their title sponsors pack it in due to the devaluation of the u.s. dollar in Canada. Svein Tuft lives in a trailer on the team owners property and the team itself basically have campfire cookouts when travelling to save money rather than dine out. These guys can't afford illegal doping products and the whole team principle is based on clean cycling.




Thanx for the reply bro.....I was aware of much of what you mentioned bro but thanx for chiming in though.
There is a myth that epo is expensive...well years ago it used to be but it isn't any more.
Did you know that you can get Dynepo(human identical and untestable) from MANY Chinese sources for cheap(direct from the labs). An entire season's worth costs about $400-500. You can get animal protein based epo's lie alpha and beta and CERA for have that price. In super low micro doses, done daily after morning controls or after morning out of comp tests, you can even "get away" with animal based epo's. 
The trouble with guys that get caught is that get greedy(like Ricco) and take too much epo....and then they get popped.

But the fact of the matter is you can use Dynepo with impunity and never get caught.

Bro you cannot increase crit with intermittent hypoxic machines. Tuft is either BS-ing about his team mates getting a 50% crit and higher from this machine or he is using the machine as a "cover up" for epo use. Personally I think he is jacked because at his weight there is no way in hell he should beat climbers up decent climbs that weight 30- 40 pounds less than him.

Cheers


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