# making it to cat1



## numminummi (Oct 18, 2010)

This is my second year of riding. In my first season I made it in to B (Cat 2 I think) and got half the number of points to get in to A (Cat 1). Coming from explosive sports my force have been sprint and shorter durations <2 min. As you can see on my numbers below FT is clearly my weakness:



5 sek – 1403 watt

1 min – 690 watt (not tested fully all out)

5 min – 380 watt (not tested fully all out)

10 min – 339 watt

FT – 308 watt

Weight 77 kgs. 75 in season.



In the last months the focus have been on building endurance and slowly increasing the intensity with more L3 and L4. Feb comes in at 65 hours with L3/L4 workouts 2 times/week.



Now that season is closing in I would like your take on my program. I do not want to peak before I’m almost all the way in A – that’s why I don’t channel the L6-L7 yet.



Some notes:

The goal of this month is to build FT as much as possible.

I have the time to go higher than 75 hours if you would find that useful.

The days I train is because of my schedule.

Club rides consists of app. 2x20 L3/L4 and 2-3 small races to a city sign (2-5 km).


Any questions just ask

/Jeppe


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## Poncharelli (May 7, 2006)

Good numbers. Not quite Cat 1, but probably Cat 2. Are you racing in the US?

Seems that the Cat 1's I know at our size (75 kilos), are more around 320-340 FT, at 4000 feet elevation. 

You have the power. Just have to keep making it happen at the races. 

A young friend of mine just got a podium at a regional Cat 2 race out of 81 racers. I believe his FT is approaching 5 w/kg. He's only 24 so he's definitely on his way to a Cat 1 upgrade. 

As far as your training plan, the more you mimic the Friel Book, the more you're on the right track. Your hours are solid though and plenty to ensure large aerobic capacity.


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## numminummi (Oct 18, 2010)

I'm racing in Denmark.

I'm not sure if our national best class (A) is directly to compare with Cat1. But last season I made it from the beginner class (D) to B and got a few podiums there - half of whats needed for A class. B races are around 120-135 km.

But my question is more whether the program is properly put together for maximizing FT?


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## Poncharelli (May 7, 2006)

It appears to me that in March, you are performing a "build period", and doing some pretty hard rides, pretty often. Group rides, LT work, and VO2max work (level 5). 

The LT work looks pretty good and definitely often enough. I would question if it is too much? Especially considering all the level 5 work and overall Zone 2 volume (many hours around 200W). Group rides can be tough as well, which usually results in normalized power in the Tempo zone. 

You can give it a shot and see what happens. But the general rule is that if you're going to increase the intensity, then the volume should be taken down a notch. Maybe 55-60 hours for the month. Especially if the 65 hour February was giving you some good volume overload. 

I once did a 70 hour base month (wasn't working and was sleeping 9 hours a day), and still wound up getting sick. I can't handle that kind of load.


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## iheartbenben (Mar 18, 2011)

With all that information you could pose your questions to Joe Friel @ JoeFriel.com. He loves to answer questions like that provided the athlete has kept good records as you have. He is also "in depth" in his responses, gives them a lot of thought.


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## stevesbike (Jun 3, 2002)

have a look at Hunter Allen's article on getting to the next level - it's focused on power at threshold, which is what you want to work on (has a lot more interval work at threshold)

http://www.peakscoachinggroup.com/Articles/the_next_level.pdf


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## numminummi (Oct 18, 2010)

Poncharelli said:


> The LT work looks pretty good and definitely often enough. I would question if it is too much? Especially considering all the level 5 work and overall Zone 2 volume (many hours around 200W).
> 
> 
> I once did a 70 hour base month (wasn't working and was sleeping 9 hours a day), and still wound up getting sick. I can't handle that kind of load.


I don't know, but from what i read on this - and other forums - one should do a lot of intervals. Of course that may only be the case for riders limited on time? -which i am not.

What is to prefer; keeping the hours at 75 and maybe a little less intensity (some L3 instead of L4), or keeping intensity and lowering the hours at L2? -when having in mind that i'm primarily racing for 125 km.

About the overtraining issue, i constantly keep track of CTL and ATL and have a good sence of what i can handle, and when i need a break. Ec. after this weekend i will take 3 days off because of the ATL beeing pretty high the last weeks. If the program ends up providing more stress than i can handle i will shorten some rides 
The increased CTL i feb i mostly due to intensity as dec i did 56 hrs - mostly L2 and L3 2-3 times/week.

And... sorry for my bad english :mad2:


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## numminummi (Oct 18, 2010)

iheartbenben said:


> With all that information you could pose your questions to Joe Friel @ JoeFriel.com. He loves to answer questions like that provided the athlete has kept good records as you have. He is also "in depth" in his responses, gives them a lot of thought.


I can't seem to find any forum on his page (joefrielsblog.com). Should i write him and e-mail or what do you mean?


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## Poncharelli (May 7, 2006)

numminummi said:


> I don't know, but from what i read on this - and other forums - one should do a lot of intervals. Of course that may only be the case for riders limited on time? -which i am not.:


Yes. More intervals is typical of the time crunched rider. I've read some of Joe Friel's blog and he said it's better to err towards more Zone 2 than more intervals (for large overall training loads). It leads to higher peak performance and longer/better seasons. That's been my experience as well; other coaches have expressed the same with their athletes. When I compare my training to other better riders (Cat 1/2), it seems that their coaches just give more Zone 2 volume, but our interval load is not that different. There are two methods to increase aerobic capacity: large volume or intervals.......and it seems that most athletes do only one of the two. 



numminummi said:


> What is to prefer; keeping the hours at 75 and maybe a little less intensity (some L3 instead of L4), or keeping intensity and lowering the hours at L2? -when having in mind that i'm primarily racing for 125 km..:


I would say keep the intensity, and slightly lower hours. But not much. Since you have FT as something you want to improve, keep your L4 workouts for sure. I also have low FT, and I keep a L4 workout all year round (after base 1 and base 2); at least one 20 minute TT interweek, but I mix in L6 stuff and microbursts for a few weeks before a peak race. In the US, our races are shorter and we have lots of crits, so it makes sense to have shorter intervals. 



numminummi said:


> About the overtraining issue, i constantly keep track of CTL and ATL and have a good sence of what i can handle, and when i need a break. Ec. after this weekend i will take 3 days off because of the ATL beeing pretty high the last weeks. If the program ends up providing more stress than i can handle i will shorten some rides
> The increased CTL i feb i mostly due to intensity as dec i did 56 hrs - mostly L2 and L3 2-3 times/week.:


I haven't really learned the ATL/CTL methods too well, but I do understand that it's a good method to track training load. You should be fine there. Since you're keeping such a good training log, you can look back next year and determine how things worked out. Well documented training logs are invaluable, IMO; and in general, you shouldn't be stepping up training volume by huge percentages from year to year. 



numminummi said:


> And... sorry for my bad english :mad2:


I think your english is better than most americans.lol.


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## numminummi (Oct 18, 2010)

Poncharelli said:


> There are two methods to increase aerobic capacity: large volume or intervals.......and it seems that most athletes do only one of the two.


Agree.. most of the old guys from my club are very much into long hours and no intervals. Seems to work just fine - but to compete in Cat1 you will have to do at least 100 hours a month. 

Compared to strictly zone 2 for all purposes, I try to let zone 2 lay the foundation for endurance and then use intervals to improve my power over shorter durations.



Poncharelli said:


> I also have low FT, and I keep a L4 workout all year round; at least one 20 minute TT interweek, but I mix in L6 stuff and microbursts for a few weeks before a peak race. In the US, our races are shorter and we have lots of crits, so it makes sense to have shorter intervals.


All the races in Denmark from april-late july consist of long road races. In late july the crits start. So for that reason - and that i don't wan't to peak before i hit Cat1 - I will keep working on L4/L5 for 1 or 2 months more


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## iheartbenben (Mar 18, 2011)

numminummi said:


> I can't seem to find any forum on his page (joefrielsblog.com). Should i write him and e-mail or what do you mean?


E-mail. Sometimes athletes post 'comments' on his articles, so you could read some of his articles *great resource if you cut out the tri-focused articles*, and e-mail his about his "insert bicycle thresh hold / interval article title he wrote" in the subject. Then just copy paste all your stuff.

He takes time with athletes who have no real data so I have a hunch he will be able to effectively answer your question. Maybe tell him you own his book, idk. The guy is really knowledgeable when it comes to training with power and has a knack for conveying that wealth of information in a way that is easy to understand. It may take him some time, or he may not want to atm, so you could always mildly harass him and re-email him a few times a week.

Joefrielsblog.com


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## Undecided (Apr 2, 2007)

numminummi said:


> I'm racing in Denmark.
> 
> I'm not sure if our national best class (A) is directly to compare with Cat1. But last season I made it from the beginner class (D) to B and got a few podiums there - half of whats needed for A class. B races are around 120-135 km.
> 
> But my question is more whether the program is properly put together for maximizing FT?


I'd say no. I train a similar amount of time or more; I also typically keep a pretty high CTL and think that I benefit from having what others might consider "a lot" of structured interval work within my schedule. Be patient in increasing your load and pay attention to how you feel and respond to the work.

When I am concentrating on lifting my FTP, I generally include 20-minute or longer intervals on three "threshold days" per week. I think it's important to get an honest idea of your starting point, first, with a good 20-minute power test and a 5% deduction from that (or whatever you feel to be a more appropriate percentage---you might have a better idea of how you feel about that if you do an all-out 5-minute test). From there, I typically build my first week around 3 days of 2x20s at 93%-95% of my assumed threshold, primarily to develop a better feel for the level of effort. In subsequent weeks, I mix and match between (1) a "2x" day where I do two intervals of 20-30 minutes with a five minute rest, at very close to threshold (for a 20-minute interval) to 95% of threshold (for a 30-minute interval), (2) a "1x" day where I do one 60 minute interval at 90% of threshold within a three-hour ride that is otherwise at about 83% of threshold, (3) a "4x" day where I do 4x20 at about 95% with five minutes between intervals and (4) a "super" day where I climb for intervals of ten minutes at a little bit above threshold with just a couple of minutes between intervals (depending on when in the season it is, I may just do a couple of these or I may do half a dozen). I generally fit these workouts into rides that are otherwise typically 2.5 to 3 hours long. I typically follow a cycle of three weeks "on" before a break of half a week to a week (the day of the week doesn't have a huge impact on how much I can ride, so I'm not as dependent on "the big weekend ride" as some people). I also am a big fan of going for three or four hours at the maximum intensity you can evenly sustain for the duration, but that's something I generally do only when the mood strikes me and typically only in the genuine off season.


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## MaddSkillz (Mar 13, 2007)

I'm a failure.


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## numminummi (Oct 18, 2010)

MaddSkillz said:


> I'm a failure.


keep it up :thumbsup:


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## numminummi (Oct 18, 2010)

Undecided said:


> I'd say no.
> 
> When I am concentrating on lifting my FTP, I generally include 20-minute or longer intervals on three "threshold days" per week.
> 
> I mix and match between (1) a "2x" day where I do two intervals of 20-30 minutes with a five minute rest, at very close to threshold (for a 20-minute interval) to 95% of threshold (for a 30-minute interval), (2) a "1x" day where I do one 60 minute interval at 90% of threshold within a three-hour ride that is otherwise at about 83% of threshold, (3) a "4x" day where I do 4x20 at about 95% with five minutes between intervals and (4) a "super" day where I climb for intervals of ten minutes at a little bit above threshold with just a couple of minutes between intervals (depending on when in the season it is, I may just do a couple of these or I may do half a dozen). I generally fit these workouts into rides that are otherwise typically 2.5 to 3 hours long. .


Isn't that quite similar to my program? Ec. from the 5th-11th i will do 6x10 min @ 100% FTP, 5x5 @ 120%, 3x20 min @ 90-95% and on the weekend 4x20 @ 95-100%.


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## Undecided (Apr 2, 2007)

numminummi said:


> Isn't that quite similar to my program? Ec. from the 5th-11th i will do 6x10 min @ 100% FTP, 5x5 @ 120%, 3x20 min @ 90-95% and on the weekend 4x20 @ 95-100%.


For a week, but then then in the two weeks after that threshold looks like a much lower priority. If you're relatively untrained, a sporadic week of threshold work may be fine, but I don't think it's going to maximize your FTP. For me, the workouts I described were generally my first training priority for the four months of October-January.


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## numminummi (Oct 18, 2010)

Undecided said:


> For a week, but then then in the two weeks after that threshold looks like a much lower priority. If you're relatively untrained, a sporadic week of threshold work may be fine, but I don't think it's going to maximize your FTP. For me, the workouts I described were generally my first training priority for the four months of October-January.


Sorry if I have not made it clear - I started threshold training i late december. 

Jan was 60 hrs, 4 hrs L4, 7,5 hrs L3.
Feb will be 65 hrs, 6,5 hrs L4, 4,5 hrs L3


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## iheartbenben (Mar 18, 2011)

MaddSkillz said:


> I'm a failure.


x2. Those numbers are crazy.


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## RoadBoy1 (Oct 1, 2011)

OP, it sounds as if you are doing things right in your quest to get to Cat 1 status but I have found that as important as all of this stuff is equally important is will and desire in other words who wants it more.

At the Cat 1 level and beyond everything is pretty much optimized for success diet, training, conditioning, recovery, equipment, etc. What sets the winners apart from those who are in the middle of the field is desire plain and simple. You have to want to win and feel that you deserve to be on that podium. You have to want it more than anything else in the world and you have to do whatever it takes to get on that podium.

Good luck to you.


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## MaddSkillz (Mar 13, 2007)

iheartbenben said:


> x2. Those numbers are crazy.


I did reach a 300 watt FTP tonight. I'm 161 pounds... I just did a hard, sustained effort on the stationary bike and that was my number after an hour. I honestly hadn't been training for it. Anyway, I think I'll start a thread on how to improve it.


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## iliveonnitro (Feb 19, 2006)

I was a moderate cat2 at 305w and 1450w sprint, and I weighed 67kg. Keep working the FTP and/or dropping the weight.


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## aussiebullet (Sep 26, 2005)

iliveonnitro said:


> I was a moderate cat2 at 305w and 1450w sprint, and I weighed 67kg. Keep working the FTP and/or dropping the weight.


When you say 1450w sprint what exactly does that mean 5's, 20's?

My 5's is poor ~1200w; but l can hold 1000w for around ~30's (73kg) and while l contest most sprints that is not enough to win many of them as a B grader in Aus.


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