# Advice for a gravel bike



## luwabra

Im used to going fast and pushing myself to the limit on my carbon roadbike. Im not looking for that experience. I want a bike specifically for gravel, and that will pull my kids burley. I want to explore the roads that I continuously ride by b/c my 23mm slick wont take the abuse. It needs to be able to accept a 38 ish tire. Ive looked at the vaya, the crosscheck, macho man, etc I'd like a rival group on it but no complete bikes are coming out with rival or even apex for that matter. I'd entertain any thoughts I would like a steel frame with a "racier" geometry/ lighter weight than a crosscheck. and it needs to be canti ready im not really leaning to discs now b/c i have wheelsets to use w canti's. SO:

Steel 
racier geo
Canti studs
38mm tire clearance

Ive also considered a salsa casseroll but the 2010 only comes with caliper brakes..and the 2010 is all i can find right now.

Open to all ideas. I like the idea of having something unique but function is top priority. Im doing the ALmonzo 100 in the spring and this build will be entering that beatdown.

Thanks Ive done an immense amt of research and would just like some direction that im not entertaining at this point.


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## Dresden

If it doesn't bust your budget, a titanium Habanero Cross frame would be nice to build up for a bike like that. 

Habanero Cycles Cross / Touring frames and bikes


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## headloss

I think a Vaya is a good bet. If you want something racier and budget permits, Gunnar cross-hairs (canti). Ritchey Swiss Cross? The old Casseroll is the bomb (the yellow ones). Jamis used to have a nice steel version of their Nova with Reynolds 853 and cantis. LeMond too, 853 with cantis on the older models of their cross bike (poprad). 
Kona Jake would work. Used Salsa Chilli con crosso or whatever it was called. If you are willing to use aluminum... 
Used is your friend, most are coming with disc brakes now.

Soma double-cross? Soma Double Cross Frame - Outside Outfitters

How about this, Diamondbacks are on the upswing and this has Force for $1560 (aluminum) Diamondback Steilacoom RCX Pro Bike 2014 > Complete Bikes > Cyclocross Bikes | Jenson USA


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## luwabra

Thanks! My ultimate best case scenario is to find a bike/ frame used in excellent condition that's not getting the love it deserves. I love re-cycycling peoples unused stuff. If anybody has something that fits the bill pm me please


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## Nater

Buy one of these framesets and build it with the group you want...

Macho Man
Universal Cycles -- All-City Macho Man Frameset - Citron

Crosscheck black
Universal Cycles -- Surly Cross Check Frameset - Black Crown

Crosscheck hospital green
Universal Cycles -- Surly Cross Check Frameset - Foamy Hospital Green

Crosscheck dark dirty blue
Universal Cycles -- Surly Cross Check Frameset 2013 - Dark Dirty Blue

Black Mountain Cycles Monster Cross frame
Black Mountain Cycles: Black Mountain Cycles Frames


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## bikerector

All-city space horse can be added to the list.


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## GOTA

Every major brand is releasing a gravel grinder type bike. Most are steel but there are some good alloy models too. Disc brakes though are more and more part of the package.

Salsa Warbird
Giant Anyroad
Giant Revolt
Raleigh Tamland (steel)
Raleigh Willard (alloy)
Specialized Diverge (alloy)
Specialized AWOL (steel)
GT Grade
Trek Crossrip

These types of bikes are very hot and you have a ton of options that you didn't have just 2 years ago.


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## headloss

Specialized tricross is another non-disc option in aluminum.


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## luwabra

Great stuff everybody I thank all for the input.. I havent' ruled out disc brakes just have two unused wheelsets that aren't worth much monetarily but are in perfect condition. Whats everyones opinion of running an 18f 24r spoked wheelset on gravel.. keep in mind i anticipate them not staying as nice or true as a hard surface road specific bike. Thanks Ill be running 90% graded gravel w/ minimal washboard actually Ia has super nice gravel roads.


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## Dresden

I haven't had any problems with 20f/24r wheels on my bike that I use for gravel. I don't take that bike on roads that are very rough though.

Keep in mind that the internal width of your rim is going to limit how wide of a tire you can use. Your rims probably have a label that says 622-(some number). The number after the dash is the internal width. My road rims are 14, and I'm slightly beyond the maximum recommended tire width with the 32mm tires I'm using, but supposedly the recommendations err on the side of caution.

https://www.slowtwitch.com/images/glinks/articles/WhatWeNoticed/ETRTOSchwalbe.jpg

Tire Sizing Systems


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## SwimCycle09

I am going to second looking for a really good condition used canti bike to start if you want to keep your wheel sets. There are some really nice bikes sitting around that people aren't riding.

I was looking for a cross/gravel bike a few weeks ago and was pretty set on buying the Raleigh Tamland 1 cause I liked it so much after the test ride but I couldn't justify buying two brand new drop bar style bikes this year, even though I really like disc brakes. 

I stumbled onto a friends post on craigslist and he gave me a great deal on a very sparely ridden 105 build 2007 S-works tricross. I need to test it on gravel still, but I think it will do the job quite well.


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## Vitamin G

Gunnar Cross Hairs is what you want.

Steel. Cantis. road-like geo. Only thing I don't know is the tire clearance.


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## pulser955

I'm really interested in the new Trek 920 adventure. I got a Diamondback CX bike last year and really enjoyed riding it on dirt. But found that the trails I liked riding with it just were a little to harsh with normal cross tires and no disc brakes. But it was perfect on dirt roads. 

2015 Trek Bikes Sneak Peek ? New Road, Adventure & Mountain Bikes Coming!


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## PMC

It was already listed but take a look at the Black Mountain Cycles cross bike. Room for 45mm tires and a solid buy at 595.00. Mike is a great guy to work with and stands behind his products. 
Lots of info on his website if you do some digging. 

If you want bling and don't mind busting the budget go for a Cielo sportive classic by Chris King.


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## KDGast

Just bought a Giant Anyroad 2 and love it!! Look at several other "gravel" bikes from other companies, but this was the best overall package for me. Great handling, nicely equipped for the price and looks pretty good


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## fishman473

Regarding your wheel question, I wouldn't worry about it. I don't think you need heavier duty gear for gravel, the larger tires will take up most of the additional abuse. 

I would suggest finding a frame that has high end steel (Renolds 853, Tange Prestige, TrueTemper OXPlatinum, etc) and building it up from parts. Get some real steel, none of this crap 4130 boat anchor stuff. 

I'd suggest looking for something with more of a touring/rando geometry but that built as more of a sporty bike with good steel. A more stable bike would serve you better for both gravel riding and towing a trailer compared to a generally twitchier CX.


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## headloss

fishman473 said:


> I would suggest finding a frame that has high end steel (Renolds 853, Tange Prestige, TrueTemper OXPlatinum, etc) and building it up from parts. Get some real steel, none of this crap 4130 boat anchor stuff.


We have a very different definition of boat-anchor. The air-hardened steels are marginally lighter, at best, than standard 4130. 4130 is just as likely to make a reasonably light frame if the tubing is butted. Besides, half of the higher end steel bikes still have standard 4130 stays.


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## robt57

Besides what has been said, I will add "watch CX frames" geometry. IMO you want a lowish BB for your task, something the opposite of that are on a lot of CX frameset.

I just made a dedicated Gravel bike out of a Aluminum Sirrus with a Carbon CX fork.

It has a low BB, longer wheelbase and chain stays, slowish head [&tallish] tube angle compared to a lot of bikes/frames, but not 29er slack. What I consider desirable for the task.

Also IMO, if you run 38C tires you won't feel near as much of the frame material's ride quality. [Hint; save cash on buying Ti ] I have 42C Conti Speed Rides on the Sirrus, which both fit and have good volume. Although they are really about 37-8mm and not whom ever at Conti's idea of calling it a 42C. 

Those 42C also fit my TCX, what I used for gravel/adventure rides previously to seeking the lower BB on the Sirrus build. Most CX bike won't fit them that big I have seen in Alloy. But a lot I have not seen.


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## tempeteOntheRoad

*gravel bike*

+1 on recycling a nice used road steel frame.
+1 on a Gunnar
(edited) +1 on Habanero!

and just to mix things up, I don't think I saw any mention of my favorite, the Ritchey Swiss Cross
Swiss Cross Frame

Houlala!


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## seemana

I've been so tempted by the Swiss Cross the last month or so! I've been seriously considering ditching my Soma Double Cross and Ritchey Road Logic and just getting that instead!

One bike to do it all?






tempeteOntheRoad said:


> +1 on recycling a nice used road steel frame.
> +1 on a Gunnar
> (edited) +1 on Habanero!
> 
> and just to mix things up, I don't think I saw any mention of my favorite, the Ritchey Swiss Cross
> Swiss Cross Frame
> 
> Houlala!


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## tempeteOntheRoad

seemana said:


> I've been so tempted by the Swiss Cross the last month or so! I've been seriously considering ditching my Soma Double Cross and Ritchey Road Logic and just getting that instead!
> 
> One bike to do it all?




After years of studies and reflexion, I've become quite conviced that the well recognised ideal bike number formula ( IBN = n+1) is wrong.

IBN = n+ RitcheySwissCross where  is irrelevant

That said, I have been riding gravel roads at breakneck speed for 30 years, way before the industry's invention of such "gravel bikes!... True though; I ride an all-purpose Litesped Siena with a Rikulau Ti fork and mount 32 spokes wheels with 25mm tires.


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## robt57

tempeteOntheRoad said:


> I have been riding gravel roads at breakneck speed for 30 years, way before the industry's invention of such "gravel bikes!...



It is called adventure riding and I have been doing it and single track for a few decades on a Steel Trek Hybrid that fit 45Cs for Single Track and 33-5C for 'gravel'. 

The 'Gravel' moniker is simply another marketing schemata to trend our money to a new niche section of an existing market IMO.

You will usually see me type 'Gravel/Adventure' when referring to maintain the context in type for folks that think this is something new.  

Currently have two bikes setup thusly, A giant TCX I also use for riding hills with my wife in case I need the triple when I push her up hills with road tires. Or the 42C Speed Ride Contis that swap from to my Sirrus, the more dedicated Adventure banger.

The old school XT 180mm Crankset is kind of cool, any retro geeks aboard?


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## seemana

tempeteOntheRoad said:


> After years of studies and reflexion, I've become quite conviced that the well recognised ideal bike number formula ( IBN = n+1) is wrong.
> 
> IBN = n+ RitcheySwissCross where  is irrelevant
> 
> That said, I have been riding gravel roads at breakneck speed for 30 years, way before the industry's invention of such "gravel bikes!... True though; I ride an all-purpose Litesped Siena with a Rikulau Ti fork and mount 32 spokes wheels with 25mm tires.



You talked me into it. Frameset and some other bits are ordered. Time to part out the Soma and Ritchey.


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## robt57

seemana said:


> You talked me into it. Frameset and some other bits are ordered. Time to part out the Soma and Ritchey.


Do you mean he enabled you to talk yourself into it ?


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## seemana

robt57 said:


> Do you mean he enabled you to talk yourself into it ?



Maybe. On the plus side, my riding partner can stop listening to me debate the merits of it now. He'll be happy I'm sure.


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## headloss

seemana said:


> Maybe. On the plus side, my riding partner can stop listening to me debate the merits of it now. He'll be happy I'm sure.


What, you didn't wait for the disc version? LOL


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## seemana

headloss said:


> What, you didn't wait for the disc version? LOL


Disc version is out there already if you want it. Fwiw...my Soma is disc. For me, they're unnecessary. 

Plus, the SwissCross disc isn't red. That right there is a deal breaker.


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## headloss

seemana said:


> Disc version is out there already if you want it. Fwiw...my Soma is disc. For me, they're unnecessary.
> 
> Plus, the SwissCross disc isn't red. That right there is a deal breaker.


:thumbsup:

I already have one red bike in the stable (Paramount), so I'm due for another black one. Hopefully picking up a swisscross-disc in the next few months, as soon as budget allows. I want discs, if I'm buying new... although I'd be more than happy if I found a good deal on a used non-disc version. My reason for wanting discs is shifter-to-brake compatibility without dealing with the common problems from canti's.


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## tempeteOntheRoad

robt57 said:


> Do you mean he enabled you to talk yourself into it ?


I am looking aroud for the "like" comment... ; )


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## seemana

I've never had a red bike before...or had the desire to have one. Something about the SwissCross just seems right though. If it's anything like my Road Logic (but more tire clearance), it's going to be awesome.

Thanks for the updated IBN formula tempeteOntheRoad! It's makes total sense to me!


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## robt57

To interject a little data into this, IMO the BB drop is key toward barriers and is a pretty high BB on the [email protected] 63mm Drop. Gravel/Adventure presumably on well graded pave and a BB drop of 70-80mm would more of the right tool for the right job, again IMO. Also, what the Wheelbase length on the Swiss Cross, data not in the geom for that on the website. Longer better, race CX WB maybe not optimum for the task also. 

BTW, Soma Wolverine maybe worth a look too. Maybe a few of them for the cost of the Ritchey, although a little apples and oranges.  A Disc Monster CX with 70mm BB drop or more for dedicated use seems more optimum. After using the TCX for a while for the task and now the cobbled Sirrus, it is obvious to me why the lower BB drop just works/handles better. And the WOlverines sliding dropout for tweeking the WB for different use although not mandatory, a nice little plus.

My TCX and the Sirrus dedicated Pave adventure bike have about 1.5CM difference, the TCX having a more typical BB drop like the Ritchey. The difference in feel is this, one I feels like I am atop the bike, the lower BB I feel like I am in the bike. Exaggeration, yes but makes the point. Exactly why I did up the Sirrus as a dedicated adventure/pave ride. 
And after a few rides as compared to the TCX, I am glad I made the effort and feel it handles more solidly especially at speed on rough and broken sections.

Additional point, if you put 42C tires as I have for the purpose on a bike with a minimal BB drop, you are going to have an even higher CG. So stand over should be considered seriously in the geom of a given choice.


Wolverine with 1.8 tires

<img src="https://1.bp.blogspot.com/-8kRskJkEQno/U82Fi0gpqfI/AAAAAAAAVZo/EXSzWr1rZiE/s1600/image.jpeg" width=476 >


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## robt57

BB drop: Salsa Fargo [70mm] And Surly Straggler [72mm] about 1/2 the cost of the Swiss worth looks to IMO. Room for +40C tire and fenders FWIW. I think the Wolverine priced the same.


What is the country or origin on the Swiss Cross? I would be hard pressed to get near that price point is not made stateside personally.


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## tempeteOntheRoad

robt57 makes a good point for a specific use bike. I still believe that anything more like the Ritchey (which looks just insanely good IMOHO) is the best one-bike do-it-all solution. I wouln't not mind racing it on the road...


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## robt57

tempeteOntheRoad said:


> robt57 makes a good point for a specific use bike. I still believe that anything more like the Ritchey (which looks just insanely good IMOHO) is the best one-bike do-it-all solution. I wouln't not mind racing it on the road...



Well, the Thread was Gravel/Adventure. But really the Swiss Cross is to the other side of use perhaps. 

For me, I am not using anything expensive [being relative of course] where rocks will be banging against the bike.  Else I would use my Disc Roubaix with 30mm tires.  But my use I guess is more to the gravel to dirt end and not gravel to road end I guess. 

My Roubaix with 27mm Vitt Paves would be great for lighter Adventure use. But still too new for me to take it out for dirty dirty use. 

I once tried a shortcut years ago though a 800 acre reserve back in 2003-4 after a sudden rainfall. On my Strong Road bike with 28C All Season Contis. Freshly wet single track, not too technical. Except being like riding on ice pretty much.  But gave up after 15-20 minutes and went back out to the road to ride home. It made a holy mess out of the bike and road shoes and the dabs required not so good either. Still was fun, and she needed a cleaning anyway...


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## GRAVELBIKE

I regularly ride dirt/gravel on my steel road bike. Tires are 28mm, brakes are dual-pivots, and axles are q/r. The lack of fat tires, disc brakes, and thru-axles hasn't killed me yet. Hell, even my Speedplay pedals/cleats are doing fine.

The OP may want to check out the 'cross model from Black Mountain Cycles.


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## seemana

FWIW....OP already has picked his bike (I heard via PM and will let him chime in if he so chooses). To your point robt57, we're looking at this from different angles. I'm more coming from the road/gravel perspective versus the gravel/dirt side.

Mind you, like Gravelbike said, I've ridden my Road Logic on gravel as well with only 25mm and it performed fine. With that said, at 25mm it's almost maxed out on clearance....28s would be the absolute max. But for longer, mostly gravel rides, I'd like to go bigger. 

Once I get it all setup, I'll let you know what I think!


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## robt57

Enjoy! Always nice putting together something new.

I have more bikes that shoes, so I can cater each more to specific tasks, spoiled. 

Yesterdays ride on the Sirrus build, I went over a 300' section of 2-1/2 gravel in a wash out section. Took up the whole width of the otherwise packed dirt and gravel country lane. 42C tires plowed at speed and held a good line. I would be afraid to chew up my 27mm paves or 28 All Season Contis. Not to mention the sidewalls of the contis would likely have got torn up.  

So yeah, for sure my old moto cross demeanor comes out when I am off pave.


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