# Crack in frame? - need advice



## burgrat (Nov 18, 2005)

I noticed what appears to be a crack in my aluminum frame today where the seat tube meets the top tube. The frame is a 2006 Cervelo Soloist Team with a black anodized aluminum finish. At first I thought it was a scratch, but looking at it a different angles it is not a scratch. I have included several photos at different angles and I used a flashlight to emphasize it. Looking inside the seat tube (with the seat post removed) there does not appear to be any crack internally on the tube, but it's hard to tell.
What do you guys think? I am the original owner of the frame and it has a lifetime warranty. It has probably 3,000 miles on it, if that. Should I take it into the local Cervelo dealer to look at it?
I appreciate your feedback. Thanks!


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## adjtogo (Nov 18, 2006)

I'd definitely take it in to a local Cervelo dealer, no doubt about it.


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## jtompilot (Mar 31, 2002)

Seems like a strange place for a crack. Did you look at with a 10x magnifying glass?

The dealer needs to look at it. You might get a new frame


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## Mike T. (Feb 3, 2004)

jtompilot said:


> Seems like a strange place for a crack.


That's exactly where my Bontrager mountain bike frame cracked 17 years ago.


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## ruckus (Apr 1, 2014)

Looks like manufacturer defect to me. If Cervelo doesn't replace it, they are super dicks.


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## rm -rf (Feb 27, 2006)

It seems unusually straight. Maybe it's just a scratch. Take it in anyway.

I like the magnifying glass idea to see if it looks like a surface scrape close up.

Use a sharpy marker to point to the ends of the mark, and see if it gets any bigger after more rides. (Erase the mark later with rubbing alcohol.)


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## cxwrench (Nov 9, 2004)

ruckus said:


> Looks like manufacturer defect to me. If Cervelo doesn't replace it, they are super dicks.


Sounds to me like you have no real idea what you're talking about. It seems like a very odd crack shape for a metal frame. starts in the middle of one tube, goes through a weld and right into another tube. I'm betting it's a scratch. There are many other places on that frame where a crack could start, that's a highly unlikely one.


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## ruckus (Apr 1, 2014)

cxwrench said:


> Sounds to me like you have no real idea what you're talking about. It seems like a very odd crack shape for a metal frame. starts in the middle of one tube, goes through a weld and right into another tube. I'm betting it's a scratch. There are many other places on that frame where a crack could start, that's a highly unlikely one.


If that's the case, awesome. It's great to be wrong in this situation.


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## burgrat (Nov 18, 2005)

Yeah it looks like an unlikely place for a crack, especially how it crosses from one tube to the next right across the weld. I looked at it with a magnifying glass and it has a very intricate zig pattern to it. A scratch would be much more "gouged" and not have a tiny pattern of directional changes. I can also see a crack forming on the opposite side at the same place when I look inside the seat tube. 
I'm taking it in to get checked.


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## ruckus (Apr 1, 2014)

Manufacturing defects should be unlikely and unexpected 

Good luck tomorrow and hope for the best it's not a crack and maybe some touch up paint will fix it.


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## turbogrover (Jan 1, 2006)

burgrat said:


> Yeah it looks like an unlikely place for a crack, especially how it crosses from one tube to the next right across the weld. I looked at it with a magnifying glass and it has a very intricate zig pattern to it. A scratch would be much more "gouged" and not have a tiny pattern of directional changes. I can also see a crack forming on the opposite side at the same place when I look inside the seat tube.
> I'm taking it in to get checked.


I'm saying it's a scratch too. The way you describe it, sounds like it was rubbing against something while being transported. You're only noticing it more because it's aluminum against black.


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## Roland44 (Mar 21, 2013)

jtompilot said:


> Seems like a strange place for a crack. Did you look at with a 10x magnifying glass?
> 
> The dealer needs to look at it. You might get a new frame


I saw a lot of cracks in the exact same place over the years. Not as strange as you might thing. I am sure that there is a good explanation as well.


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## Peter P. (Dec 30, 2006)

If it's a crack, the seatpost inside the seat tube will support the area so the crack won't propogate quickly.

I'd brush a stroke of white fingernail polish over the spot. If that's a crack, it will appear through the fingernail polish in at least a couple weeks. If not, then remove the polish and don't worry.


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## Scooper (Mar 4, 2007)

The first thing I'd do is find a local company that does fluorescent dye penetrant testing and have them inspect it.


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## bradkay (Nov 5, 2013)

Could it be that you are riding with very little seatpost in the frame? That type of crack is usually caused by the seatpost flexing backwards with little support from below the top tube - normally because someone doesn't have enough seatpost inside the frame. I doubt that Cervelo ever put a warning in the owner's manual so it shouldn't be a hassle with your warranty, but you might consider using a longer seatpost on your replacement frame.


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## n2deep (Mar 23, 2014)

Scooper said:


> The first thing I'd do is find a local company that does fluorescent dye penetrant testing and have them inspect it.


I agree it does not appear top be a crack, however Dye penetrant is super simple to use, just follow the directions on the can and clean the part throughly after application of the dye/before you apply the developer. PT Kits are available locally if not off the net and all you need is clean cotton rags.. The kit consists of a cleaner, the dye and the developer. PS The PT cleaner may remove any finish you have on the frame.


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## QuattroCreep (Nov 30, 2009)

Lets get to the real problem. You have a 2006 Cervelo Soloist Team with 3k miles on it. What have you been doing for the last 8 years?


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## Scooper (Mar 4, 2007)

QuattroCreep said:


> Lets get to the real problem. You have a 2006 Cervelo Soloist Team with 3k miles on it. What have you been doing for the last 8 years?


Umm, maybe riding other bikes? :wink5:


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## burgrat (Nov 18, 2005)

QuattroCreep said:


> Lets get to the real problem. You have a 2006 Cervelo Soloist Team with 3k miles on it. What have you been doing for the last 8 years?


Not riding much, unfortunately. I have put miles on my Ritchey Breakaway (my other road bike), but I definitely need to get out on the road more!


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## burgrat (Nov 18, 2005)

bradkay said:


> Could it be that you are riding with very little seatpost in the frame? That type of crack is usually caused by the seatpost flexing backwards with little support from below the top tube - normally because someone doesn't have enough seatpost inside the frame. I doubt that Cervelo ever put a warning in the owner's manual so it shouldn't be a hassle with your warranty, but you might consider using a longer seatpost on your replacement frame.


The seat post goes about 5 inches beyond that area, so that's not it. It is an aluminum aero (teardrop shape) post and super rigid.


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## Peter P. (Dec 30, 2006)

As an alternative to the dye penetrant suggested above, you can do what I did.

Put a piece of scotch tape over the suspected crack. Remove the seatpost and place the seat tube parallel to the ground. In your case, maybe put a piece of duct tape or something similar over the end of the seat tube, but only cover a few millimeters. You want to form a lip so fluid won't flow out the seat tube.

Then saturate the seat tube area near the crack with something like Liquid Wrench from a spray can. You're trying to form a little puddle of fluid inside the seat tube over the "cracked" area, which is facing the ground.

Let it sit for a couple hours. If the brown Liquid Wrench fluid appears on the scotch tape you placed over the suspected crack, you'll have your answer.

This worked for me and exposed a slowly developing crack in my headtube.


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## burgrat (Nov 18, 2005)

I took my frame into the local Cervelo shop today to have them look at it. They said it is not a crack because it would not propagate across a weld like that. He said a crack would appear at the border of the weld, most likely. 
I'm still not 100% convinced, but I'll go with it and I do plan to ride it and just keep an eye on it over time. If it is a crack and it worsens, it's under warranty and I'm covered. If not, then I'm still good. I like the bike and I need to work on getting some miles on it!


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## Mike T. (Feb 3, 2004)

burgrat said:


> They said it is not a crack because *it would not propagate across a weld like that*. He said a crack would appear at the border of the weld, most likely.


See my original post. Your LBS is full of baloney. My Bontrager cracked *just* like yours - or whatever that is on your frame. Mine was a crack for sure as seapost grease was coming out of it - and I got a free frame out of it.


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## burgrat (Nov 18, 2005)

Mike T. said:


> See my original post. Your LBS is full of baloney. My Bontrager cracked *just* like yours - or whatever that is on your frame. Mine was a crack for sure as seapost grease was coming out of it - and I got a free frame out of it.


Thanks for the reply Mike (btw, I like your wheelbuilding site!). What would you recommend I do? I'm thinking that it's ok to ride and monitor it. The seatpost inserts into the seat tube over 5 inches beyond where this possible crack is. If is a crack, I'm hoping is does increase so there is no question about it and I can get it replaced. Btw, I'm not racing and riding mainly on flat roads about 15-20 miles at a time (speed is maybe 18-20 max). Am I risking it by riding it? (i.e. catastrophic failure?!)
The shop is the only Cervelo dealer within about 80 miles. It would be a few weeks before I could go to the other shop. 
What do you guys recommend?


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## Peter P. (Dec 30, 2006)

See my post above regarding the Liquid Wrench and the scotch tape. Easy enough test to perform.

Below are 2 photos of my work. One shows a little of the Liquid Wrench as it sat in the headtube trough (you can barely make out the suspected crack), and the other is of the scotch tape I stuck on the outside of the suspected cracked area.


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## burgrat (Nov 18, 2005)

Thanks for the photos and explanation Peter. That crack is tiny. I will try this trick and see if it goes through.


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## miataeric (Jun 4, 2013)

Try looking for someone in your area that does NDT (non-destructive testing). That's my line of work. From the looks of the shape of the mark, it could very well be a crack. As previously mentioned, fluorescent penetrant would certainly show it, but an eddy current inspection would take about 30 seconds and would be just as conclusive. 

It's not unlikely that a crack could happen there. It all depends on where the crack originates and how it propogates. If it started at a fault on the ID of the tube and spread down the length of the tube along the grain and has gradually spread over time, there's no reason it couldn't continue down the tube and eventually across the weld into the head tube.
I would agree with previous comments to mark the ends of it with a sharpie, but I personally wouldn't keep riding with a suspected crack like that. The cyclic stresses in that area are bound to make a crack keep growing faster then I'd risk.
Just my $.02


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## Mike T. (Feb 3, 2004)

burgrat said:


> Thanks for the reply Mike (btw, I like your wheelbuilding site!).


Hey thanks. Yeah that site is my passion and comments like yours are my payment.



> What would you recommend I do?


Ride the snot out of it. Ride some dirt trails and keep your arze in the saddle. Do your best to traumatize that "crack". Mine was on a mountain bike frame so it was easy to give it a workout. Bontrager MTB frames had very short seat tubes and therefore lots of seatpost showing (and lots inside the frame too before anyone asks) so torquing that joint happened without trying. I'd remove the post and re-grease it too because my crack (ok, the *frame's* crack) showed up black and it did ooze some grease. You're looks whiteish.


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## cxwrench (Nov 9, 2004)

I'll second Mike's advice. If that really is a crack you'll get PLENTY of warning before anything bad happens. While the above poster specializes in NDT, I've probably seen hundreds of possibly cracked frames over the years, and quite a number of definitely broken frames that people were still riding. I can't remember the last time that any of them resulted in anything resembling a catastrophic failure.


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## Mike T. (Feb 3, 2004)

cxwrench said:


> I'll second Mike's advice. If that really is a crack you'll get PLENTY of warning before anything bad happens. While the above poster specializes in NDT, I've probably seen hundreds of possibly cracked frames over the years, and quite a number of definitely broken frames that people were still riding. I can't remember the last time that any of them resulted in anything resembling a catastrophic failure.


What's the worst that can happen here? He pounds the frame and the crack opens up and he has to stand out of the saddle some (most?) of the way home? I'd be smiling all the way to the LBS.


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## miataeric (Jun 4, 2013)

cxwrench said:


> I'll second Mike's advice. If that really is a crack you'll get PLENTY of warning before anything bad happens. While the above poster specializes in NDT, I've probably seen hundreds of possibly cracked frames over the years, and quite a number of definitely broken frames that people were still riding. I can't remember the last time that any of them resulted in anything resembling a catastrophic failure.


Cxwrench has much more experience with bike frames and cracking than I do, so I will not argue his (or Mike T's) points. Both of these gentlemen have been around cycling probably longer than I have been alive. 

My point comes from my experience with Naval aircraft and the extreme conditions that they go through. Bikes may well be a totally different animal, but I am not an engineer, so I can't say for sure. I'd still recommend getting it checked out, and best of luck! I hope it's just a scratch.


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## cxwrench (Nov 9, 2004)

miataeric said:


> Cxwrench has much more experience with bike frames and cracking than I do, so I will not argue his (or Mike T's) points. Both of these gentlemen have been around cycling probably longer than I have been alive.
> 
> My point comes from my experience with Naval aircraft and the extreme conditions that they go through. Bikes may well be a totally different animal, but I am not an engineer, so I can't say for sure. I'd still recommend getting it checked out, and best of luck! I hope it's just a scratch.


Hey now, I'm not that old!


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## cxwrench (Nov 9, 2004)

Mike T. said:


> What's the worst that can happen here? He pounds the frame and the crack opens up and he has to stand out of the saddle some (most?) of the way home? I'd be smiling all the way to the LBS.


Exactly, and w/ the amount of post below the 'scratch/crack' inside the frame I'm betting nothing will happen at all.


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## ghettocop (Apr 19, 2014)

The first thing that usually happens with cracks in that area, is grease from the seat tube will start migrating out of it and appearing as a mystery "line or spot of grease" that keeps reappearing after you wipe it off. Unless you have a bone dry seat tube, I say scratch.


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## chiefkeef (Mar 12, 2014)

Its really tough to say. It definitely could be a crack though. Do some more thorough testing. Its impossible to rule out just from the naked eye. Your LBS likely hasn't encountered a crack like this.

Like others have said, its really, really uncommon for a crack like this to happen, but not impossible.


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## burgrat (Nov 18, 2005)

Just a quick update on my crack . Here are 2 photos:

Taken 4/24 when I started this thread:











Today, 2.5 months of riding later:










It's increased 6mm in length from what I can see. It's increasing in both directions. It's no problem when riding, but am I foolish to continue to ride it or should I get it to the dealer asap?

Thoughts?


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## Whacked (Feb 14, 2011)

Any creaking or other weird noises when riding?

Also, scratches do not get bigger. At first glance I would have agreed with the LBS and told you its a scratch. Now with the second photo, clearly that is not the case. 

Take the bike with both photos back to the LBS and see what happens.


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## burgrat (Nov 18, 2005)

Whacked said:


> Any creaking or other weird noises when riding?
> 
> Also, scratches do not get bigger. At first glance I would have agreed with the LBS and told you its a scratch. Now with the second photo, clearly that is not the case.
> 
> Take the bike with both photos back to the LBS and see what happens.


Some creaking from time to time. I plan to take the photos and frame in. I also emailed Cervelo with the photos (I spoke with them previously). Hopefully they will be helpful.

They no longer make this frame. What do they do in a case like this? Credit toward a new frame? Replace with a similar frame? They don't make the aluminum one anymore, so I'm curious what will happen.


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## CliffordK (Jun 6, 2014)

It looks like it is definitely propagating, which should be enough for someone to take it seriously. 

Find out what your warranty status is. Is it a lifetime warranty? (for the original owner?)

At this point, the frame could be welded, but you also don't know if there is hidden cracking on the front side of the seat tube which is obscured by the top tube, unless you can see/feel it inside of the frame.

Somebody commented about seat posts. They all should have an "insert past" mark.The seat tube on the frame seems to extend quite far above the top tube which could confuse measurements. However, burgrat did say that he had quite a bit of seat post in the frame.

Could the seat post clamp be an issue? Does the seat post fit snugly in the frame when not clamped?


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## adjtogo (Nov 18, 2006)

I would have gone to the dealer to begin with. There would have been absolutely no way I would have ridden it after I noticed the crack.



burgrat said:


> Just a quick update on my crack . Here are 2 photos:
> 
> Taken 4/24 when I started this thread:
> 
> ...


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## burgrat (Nov 18, 2005)

adjtogo said:


> I would have gone to the dealer to begin with. There would have been absolutely no way I would have ridden it after I noticed the crack.


Start at the original post, you'll see that I did.


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## adjtogo (Nov 18, 2006)

Well then, it's time to take it back to the LBS again, or call the manufacturer directly.

If that doesn't work, time to buy a ti bike.


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## burgrat (Nov 18, 2005)

adjtogo said:


> Well then, it's time to take it back to the LBS again, or call the manufacturer directly.
> 
> If that doesn't work, time to buy a ti bike.


Yeah, I just wanted to update the thread. It's actually really hard to tell the magnitude of the crack due to the finish of the frame. I don't know if it's anodized or something similar, but it's not a normal paint like with steel frames. From one angle you can't even see it. I had to get the light just right to just see it and take a photo. I was wondering if it was a crack in the finish (paint), if that makes sense. It's not visible from inside the seat post. I can see the faintest amount of what appears to be grease (from the lightly lubed seat post/shim) seeping through, so it is indeed a crack in the aluminum.
Have you guys ever had to deal with a warranty issue? I'm actually moving out of state in 2 months and not sure if I should wait. I did not purchase the frame at my local shop.


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## CliffordK (Jun 6, 2014)

I'm assuming you bought the frame new. Where? Online? 

There certainly have been other threads about people with more catastrophic failures. I usually have used stuff... so I've never dealt with the warranty issues myself.

If you get a new frame from Cervelo, are you planning on doing the build yourself? Did you say you have a spare bike? It might be easiest to transport the bike if you time it so that you ship the frame off to the factory, and just move a pile of parts. However, moving is also often a very hectic time, so you may choose not to deal with the bike at that time.


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## Whacked (Feb 14, 2011)

I am still dealing with a frame warranty issue.
To shorten the story, last saturday marked 5 weeks since I dropped the bike off for verification and warranty claim. yesterday the shop said they finally got word from the bike manufacturer and they are sending a complete new bike (I called the manufacturer last week and spoke with a CS rep). Granted this is a '11 entry level MTB. If they are not jerking me around I should get the new bike next week....
I would have called the manufacturer from the start except on their website they state to take it to an authorized dealer, so thats what I did.


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## burgrat (Nov 18, 2005)

I sent the photos directly to Cervelo. They said it is definitely a crack, take it to any local Cervelo dealer, and because it is a frame they no longer make, I will likely get a new S3 frame/fork. I won't celebrate until I actually get it and I'm not happy to lose this frame. I really, really like it. I'll keep you guys posted.


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## CliffordK (Jun 6, 2014)

So, anything new on the horizon for 2015 frames? When do the new models come out? Perhaps there is no reason to rush.


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## Scooper (Mar 4, 2007)

burgrat said:


> I sent the photos directly to Cervelo. They said it is definitely a crack, take it to any local Cervelo dealer, and because it is a frame they no longer make, I will likely get a new S3 frame/fork. I won't celebrate until I actually get it and I'm not happy to lose this frame. I really, really like it. I'll keep you guys posted.


Good for them for stepping up, although it's pretty hard to debate the legitimacy of your claim with those photos as evidence.

Still, it's nice to see Cervelo acting responsibly.


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## kiwisimon (Oct 30, 2002)

How do we send rep to Cervelo? Good CS will pay itself back 10 times in the future.


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## Peter P. (Dec 30, 2006)

Thanks for the update. It was real smart of you to measure the crack and check it's progress over time. Report back on how quickly you get a replacement frame and whether you find it a satisfactory replacement for your aluminum Cervelo.


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## adjtogo (Nov 18, 2006)

burgrat said:


> Some creaking from time to time. I plan to take the photos and frame in. I also emailed Cervelo with the photos (I spoke with them previously). Hopefully they will be helpful.
> 
> They no longer make this frame. What do they do in a case like this? Credit toward a new frame? Replace with a similar frame? They don't make the aluminum one anymore, so I'm curious what will happen.


I had a similar problem with a cracked Bianchi Infinito frame. I was out on a normal ride on a smooth road one day, when I heard a loud cracking noise. I didn't have any idea what it was, as there wasn't anything I hit. Just after I heard the noise, I noticed my chain jumping chain rings in the back. I was just thinking to myself, I just had the bike adjusted the day before at my LBS. I rode slowly until I got home. After I inspected the bike, I noticed a hairline crack in the right seatstay. I brought it to my LBS where I bought the bike from, who inspected and confirmed it was a crack. They stripped the bike of all the parts and sent it back to Bianchi in California. After they got the frame, they called me and told me the crack wasn't under warranty because it wasn't a manufacture defect and that the crack was caused by me. I argued the point, but they stood their ground. I told them the crack was in a place where, if I hit anything, wouldn't be on that part of the seatstay. Still, they didn't agree. So, what they offered me was a "Crash Replacement". They gave me two options. Either a brand new Infinito frame for $600, or send the damaged frame to Mcalfee for a repair for $500. I bought the new frame, had the bike put back together, and sold it. I sold the cracked frame for $550 on ebay. 

Cervelo may very well take better care of you than Bianchi did with me. They will more than likely give you several different frame options at no cost to you. I've heard that Cervelo and Specialized are the best two companies for CS and customer satisfaction. I heard they both are both the best to deal with. 

I wish you luck. Keep us informed.


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## sfbaybiker (Jul 15, 2014)

I just googled and found a post in another website described how to test a cracked frame, but my chinese is poor and I only can read a little, does some one 
who can read chinese could translate it to english ?

http://www.mobile01.com/topicdetail.php?f=316&t=2661840&p=1


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## kiwisimon (Oct 30, 2002)

https://translate.google.co.jp/tran...ile01.com/topicdetail.php?f=316&t=2661840&p=1
might help.


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## burgrat (Nov 18, 2005)

OP here. I said I would follow up, so here goes.

I received a new Cervelo S2 frame this week. Brand new frame, fork (uncut) and spacers, seatpost, and headset. The model is not the current year's, based on the color scheme, but it is new to me and they consider it the best substitute of the aluminum Soloist that I had. I has electronic wiring ports in the frame, so it is ready for the newest technology. It's a beautiful frame. I think I am going to sell it since I already have a road bike (Ritchey Breakaway) and I want to get a mountain bike.

In any case, I want to give props to Cervelo for their great customer service and for standing behind their product! The total turnaround time was about 1 month from dropping off at the local Cervelo dealer to receiving the new frame. Didn't cost me a dime!

(P.S. If anyone is interested in this frame, PM me.)


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## yhc (Aug 19, 2014)

Congratulations to you and kudos to Cervelo! That looks like a 2012 frame. I am in the market for a new bike and it's good to know some manufacturers do stand behind their products.


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