# Going back from tubeless ...



## Velohome (Feb 13, 2015)

Just a quick question, wonder if somebody else had the problem...

would love to give tubeless a try, but if i do not feeling comfortable with it, how easy is it to use the wheelset again with normal tubes? Is it easy to get the milk out of the rim?


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## aclinjury (Sep 12, 2011)

Velohome said:


> Just a quick question, wonder if somebody else had the problem...
> 
> would love to give tubeless a try, but if i do not feeling comfortable with it, how easy is it to use the wheelset again with normal tubes? Is it easy to get the milk out of the rim?


ehhhh, one question at a time.

1) what are you looking for in tubeless that you can't get in a regular tire/wheel setup? Nowadays, you can a good wheelset with wide rims (eg, HED Belgium+ 25mm) and run them with quality tires with thin butyle inner tubes.... it will beat any tubeless combination. So if the reason is "tubeless rolls better, rides better"... is false.

2) Regular clincher tires have far greater choices,.. AND... they're on sale far more often. Cost will be in favor of regular clincher tires

3) Wear factor. Once a tubeless tire has worn down to about 1/2 or even 1/3 its thread life, it will have less rubber, and thus, it will be less likely to seal a puncture. So in reality, a tubeless tire is worth only about half its tread life. Sure you can continue to ride on, but now statistics are not on your side.

4) with tubeless setup, you'd still need to carry a spare tube and CO2.

5) and once you do get a puncture that doesn't seal, oh boy, have fun on the road with the milky stuff. The sealant will spray all over your frame and wheel, then you end up wiping that sh*t off. Mounting a tubeless tire on the road is not easy either (maybe today's tubeless tires are easier to mount, but they can't be any easier than a regular clincher).

6) as for getting the milk out of the rim. This will highly depend on the sealant. If you the white milky Stans stuff, it's hard. It's hard because the latex dries out into balls of goopy rubber on your inner rim. Then you have to scrap that sh*t out. And.. in my case, the Stans sealant corrode my Dura Ace C24 aluminum rims. I ended up having to lightly sand away the corrosion on my rims. Other sealants that use less latex is a bit easier to remove, but with less latex, you'd also run the chance of your puncture not being able to seal in the event of a flat too. Some sealants don't use latex, they use ethylene glycol (same stuff as car antifreeze) with micro fibrous strands, and while this will seal well and it will not goop up inside your rim... but... the fibrous strands also tend to clog up your air valve too... so now you have to keep clearing your air valve... sometimes your valve will not clear up so easily.

Tubeless makes a lot of sense in the mtb world, but on the road, I'll take a good regular clincher setup using wide rims and quality tires... ANYDAY


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## upstateSC-rider (Aug 21, 2004)

Velohome said:


> Just a quick question, wonder if somebody else had the problem...
> 
> would love to give tubeless a try, but if i do not feeling comfortable with it, how easy is it to use the wheelset again with normal tubes? Is it easy to get the milk out of the rim?


It's not a big deal to switch back and forth, don't worry about it.


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## Marc (Jan 23, 2005)

aclinjury said:


> ehhhh, one question at a time.
> 
> 1) what are you looking for in tubeless that you can't get in a regular tire/wheel setup? Nowadays, you can a good wheelset with wide rims (eg, HED Belgium+ 25mm) and run them with quality tires with thin butyle inner tubes.... it will beat any tubeless combination. So if the reason is "tubeless rolls better, rides better"... is false.
> 
> ...


Just a side note...tubeless sealant and CO2 don't get along....you'll freeze the liquid sealant into stringy goobers in your wheel...leaving you with a wheel that seals even less.


Otherwise...yea. Everything you just said.


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## pushstart (Feb 5, 2012)

Wow, there is a lot of hyperbole being thrown around here.  

Switching back and forth is easy.

But tubeless might work great for your needs. I had a horrible first experience with Hutchinson garbage tires, and swore off road tubeless as a waste of time. But now I use 28mm tubeless Schwalbe Pro One on my commuter (and for some reason 23mm on my road bike). The ride is great (feels at least as good as GP4000SII w/ latex tubes, but the tests suggest they are probably a bit slower), but the sealing flats is greater. 3500 miles on a rear tire now (it is almost done), so life is better than I was getting out of faster tube-tire rubber. It has sealed several holes that would have required tube changes. Honestly, the only reason I am still riding that tire is because it is tubeless and I know the next piece of rock that works through the now-thin casing will be sealed by sealant -- or tire plugs. I haven't had to put a tube on my commuter for over a year, and that is deapite getting several punctures (that sealed with sealant).

I agree that you can get a really nice set of rolling tubed tires, though. So I am not trying to claim that the ride is better. But when you factor in latex tubes, street prices on tubeless are better.

Also I find tubeless is great for 28mm and a little less great for 23mm. (regular) Stans sealant doesn't like to seal even small punctures above 60-80psi in my experience. I have a hole in my rear tire that tends to blow out the sealant at some point in my ride. I haven't bothered to plug it, sice in practice it is fine. I just notice some sealant on my seat tube and the pressure is a little soft but it reseals just fine. Not sure why anyone rides 23s, though, and once these tires are done I will be done with 23s too.

The idea that having a non-sealing flat will be covering you and your bike in latex sealant is pretty exaggerated. The nice thing about the sealant leaking out in that scenario is you know exactly where the problem in the tire is. If you do have to put in a tube you for have to futz around looking for why the tire flatted. But the little tire plugs from Genuine Innovations work great for fixing holes too big for sealant. No need to remove the tire (or wheel).

But the quick answer is that going back and forth is as easy as just taking out or putting in a tube. You could use a rag or paper towel to wipe out the inside of the tire if you cared.

But with good tires, I suspect you won't ever go back to tubes.


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## Velohome (Feb 13, 2015)

Thanks to all of you for your input! 

Just because the question came up why to do so.

As simple as is sounds, curiosity. And if the handling would be this hard, i think i would leave everything as it it, but perhaps i will give it a try... 

Thanks again


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## changingleaf (Aug 20, 2009)

Like others have said there's not problem reverting to tubes. If you're going to try tubeless make sure the rims are designed for tubeless use.


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## Velohome (Feb 13, 2015)

Sure,
the ritches zetta II should work with tubeless


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## Notvintage (May 19, 2013)

changingleaf said:


> If you're going to try tubeless make sure the rims are designed for tubeless use.


And even then, it will be a silly experiment on a road bike.


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## Jay Strongbow (May 8, 2010)

Tubeless users 'go back' every time they get a flat on the road. There may be reasons tubeless doesn't make sense for you but losing the ability to use tubes definitely isn't one of them.


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## Velohome (Feb 13, 2015)

*sometimes...*



Notvintage said:


> And even then, it will be a silly experiment on a road bike.


Might be that it is a stupid idea, but sometimes this kind of things have to be done.


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## kbwh (May 28, 2010)

Jay Strongbow said:


> Tubeless users 'go back' every time they get a flat on the road.


Hmmm. I have 10000 km on tubeless tires by now. Still haven't had to put a tube in.


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## Jay Strongbow (May 8, 2010)

kbwh said:


> Hmmm. I have 10000 km on tubeless tires by now. Still haven't had to put a tube in.


Thanks for sharing. I haven't gotten a flat in the long using tubes. Not sure what your point is.


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## Lombard (May 8, 2014)

aclinjury said:


> Tubeless makes a lot of sense in the mtb world.....



So do thorn proof tubes and they don't require messy sealant.


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## kbwh (May 28, 2010)

Jay Strongbow said:


> I haven't gotten a flat in the long using tubes.


What's that?


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## upstateSC-rider (Aug 21, 2004)

Velohome said:


> Might be that it is a stupid idea, but sometimes this kind of things have to be done.


For some reason there are tons of tubeless haters here.  I've used TL on and off for several years...I rarely flat so the biggest draws for me are ride quality and the fact that I like tinkering. I can take it or leave it but don't see anything about it worthy of hate. Here are my experiences...

I have one bike with a 25mm in the rear and another bike, that I prefer position-wise, but couldn't fit 25's, only 23's.
My fix was to run a TL 23 in the rear and give it a more supple ride, like the one with the 25 on it. I can run about 6-8 lower psi on the TL 23 than a tubed 23 without a squishy/slowish feeling from the back.

Going back 6 or 7 years (maybe more?) I used the Stans conversion kit that came with two 1st gen Hutchinson TL tires, two valves, and rim tape to run tubeless on a non-tubeless rim (Bontrager Race X Lite) and rode that setup for more than 2k miles before moving the front to the back and putting a tubed tire in the front, for no other reason than I got a deal on some tubed clinchers, never flatted with that setup.

I have flatted on the rear with TL (Schwalbe Ultremo?) where the sealant couldn't seal and ended up having to fit in a tube road-side, time-wise was slightly more than tubed and the ride was awful, probably from the stiffer sidewalls in addition to the tube, but not what I would even call a pain.

A couple of weeks ago I was cleaning my bike and cleaned what I thought was some white paint from underneath the down-tube, turned out to be sealant. I then remembered my front tire air pressure was down about 20 psi during a pre-ride ritual about a week earlier and, upon closer inspection, found a tiny slice in the tire...had a flat and didn't even know it at the time.


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## pushstart (Feb 5, 2012)

Lombard said:


> So do thorn proof tubes and they don't require messy sealant.


You mean the tubes that have sealant in them?

Those don't help with pinch flats. Tubeless is pretty much "settled law" for MTB.


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## Lombard (May 8, 2014)

upstateSC-rider said:


> For some reason there are tons of tubeless haters here.



Hate is a very strong word. For me, I just don't think any advantages outweigh the hassles involved.


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## pushstart (Feb 5, 2012)

I think that can be true on the road, but with the right setup the hassles are minimal.

- A tubeless-designed rim does help. Not required for road (high-pressure) tubeless, but if the tires fit loosely that will be very frustrating getting them to seat. If the tires are tight then not having the deep center channel will make mounting frustrating. Once the tire is seated, though, the rim design won't matter. I have had great luck with tubeless on Kinlin road rims, for example.

- Good tires really make the value proposition. I was really unimpressed with Hutchinson Fusion 3: wore fast, flatted constantly, and felt slow. Schwalbe Pro One are really nice in contrast. This setup feels at least as good as GP4000S with latex tubes (and has the advantages of sealing flats).


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## cooskull (Nov 30, 2013)

See inline comments:



aclinjury said:


> ehhhh, one question at a time.
> 
> 1) what are you looking for in tubeless that you can't get in a regular tire/wheel setup? Nowadays, you can a good wheelset with wide rims (eg, HED Belgium+ 25mm) and run them with quality tires with thin butyle inner tubes.... it will beat any tubeless combination. So if the reason is "tubeless rolls better, rides better"... is false.
> 
> ...


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## Hiro11 (Dec 18, 2010)

Answering the OPs question: it's no problem to go back and forth between tubeless.

Regarding tubeless itself, *my experiences* (bolded for emphasis, these are opinions not facts):

Upsides:
1. allows you to run lower pressures without increasing the risk of pinch flatting
2. usually offers a nice compliant ride with seemingly low rolling resistance.
3. sealant significantly reduces the possibility of puncture flatting.
4. I've found tubeless tires are significantly more durable than non-tubeless tires.

Downsides:
1. Somewhat more difficult to deal with: mounting can be a pain as tubeless tires can be really tight and might require a compressor, you need to check the sealant on occasion, etc
2. If you experience a non-sealable cut on the road, I'll bet getting a tube in there would be a messy, thumb breaking pain in the ass.
3. Tubeless tires are significantly more expensive and the options are very limited.

IMO, tubeless makes a ton of sense for fatter tires run at lower than 60 PSI. I use it on my mountain bike, fat bike and gravel bike with great success. However, with higher pressures and thinner tires, I think the drawbacks start to outweigh the benefits.


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## jeffenle (Jan 29, 2021)

aclinjury said:


> ehhhh, one question at a time.
> 
> 1) what are you looking for in tubeless that you can't get in a regular tire/wheel setup? Nowadays, you can a good wheelset with wide rims (eg, HED Belgium+ 25mm) and run them with quality tires with thin butyle inner tubes.... it will beat any tubeless combination. So if the reason is "tubeless rolls better, rides better"... is false.
> 
> ...


It's so great to see a well thought out and informative answer without any judgement or whining. Thank you for this post. It was exactly what I was looking for and very helpful!


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