# Cervelo Soloist advantage?



## gradosu

I've begun saving to add to my meager stable. The bike that has caught my eye is the Cervelo soloist team. From everything I have read, this bike really kicks ass for the price. I am curious about how much the 'aero' of the bike really helps out with riding alone. Can you see/feel a noticable difference between it and a normal race bike? 
Anyone have any first hand experience with this bike? Any problems with the component set? i.e. the FSA crank. or wheels? Thanks.


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## Cheers!

After putting on 2000 kms or so this summer since I bought the bike end of the year last year. I can say my 2006 Cervelo Soloist Team is absolutely brilliant. 

Some things that are pretty crappy.
-Wheels (2006 model) had the Easton Vista
-Tektro brakes

Personally I believe aero is important. Some say BS, but to each their own. I keep hearing people say, but you never go over 40 km/h. Why would it matter? No offense, but at 30 km/h I can tell a difference between riding in the drops and riding on the hoods. Riding in the drops makes your exposed frontal area decrease by 25%. Plus when you are going 30 km/h the total wind speed is usually more than 30 km/h. Imagine if you had a 10 km/h head wind? Your total windspeed would be 40 km/h. If it was 20 km/h head wind, aero starts to matter more and more. Force of drag is squared as velocity goes up.

The equation for drag Force is

Fdrag = 1/2*p*A*V^2

where p = pho = fluid you are traveling through
V = velocity 
A = exposed frontal area

By being in the drops I have cut my force due to drag by 25%. The higher the speed, the less drag. 

So if people say... that a bike frame that gives you 2% better aero compared to a normal frame is negliable. Well think again, especially if the same guy who is making that statement is trying to argue that tires are everything and 0.00001% better rolling resistance is more important. 

wasted efficiency = wasted energy (watts) from rider. 

Aero is important. 

Can you feel a difference? In what respect? The geometry or the aero of the bike? I doubt you could feel 2% gain in aerodynamics, but I'm sure if you had a twin brother in the same physical performance but on a normal bike, at the end of the day when you see the 1km to go sign and you sprint, I think you would be ahead of the other twin without an aero bike. 

The beauty with the cervelo I find is that it isn't flexy or twitchy either. To be honest at a full sprint, I can't tell a flexy frame. When I can tell is when I decide to take the downhill switch backs at 60 km/h + with the bike fully leaned over. 

There is nothing wrong with the FSA cranks. They aren't the lightest on the market, that is all. The 2007 model comes with compact cranks.

Here is my with some upgrades. 
-Full Dura-Ace (except for cranks)
-Zero gravity brakes
-Reynolds wheels


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## gradosu

wow, that is a sweet bike. looks fast as hell. do you know how much weight you dropped by putting on the DA and the new wheels?


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## Cheers!

The bike as you see it is at 17.1 lbs. It could be lighter if I could decide what handlebar to upgrade to. I don't like this one (came with bike, it is a 3T THE). The reach is too far for the pods. That handle bar weighs in at 311g.

I thought about buying the syntace racelite carbon, but the reach is even more for that one. So right now I'm still doing my research for a Deda newton shallow drop round, Ritchey Logic classic WCS, and a Reynolds Ouzo Round carbon bar. 

The next heaviest item I would like to replace is the seat post. Cervelo claims that they are going to release their single position carbon seat post for sale. That seat post is claimed at around 175 grams. The aluminum one that came with the bike is 321 grams heavy.


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## Argentius

*Cheers...*

Have you got the 2-position post on there? If you do, then why are you in the rearward position, but with your saddle slammed all the way forward? Or, am I missin' somefin.

Second, nice bike! But, argh, teh pictures, tey are too big for the screeeeenz.


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## Cheers!

Argentius said:


> Have you got the 2-position post on there? If you do, then why are you in the rearward position, but with your saddle slammed all the way forward? Or, am I missin' somefin.
> 
> Second, nice bike! But, argh, teh pictures, tey are too big for the screeeeenz.


 It used to be at a more normal position. But ever since I hurt my back in the spring, I've had to move it up quite a bit. If I have it too far back now my back wants to seize up on a longer ride...


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## [email protected]

*areo advantage*



gradosu said:


> I've begun saving to add to my meager stable. The bike that has caught my eye is the Cervelo soloist team. From everything I have read, this bike really kicks ass for the price. I am curious about how much the 'aero' of the bike really helps out with riding alone. Can you see/feel a noticable difference between it and a normal race bike?
> Anyone have any first hand experience with this bike? Any problems with the component set? i.e. the FSA crank. or wheels? Thanks.


 the soloist as really great areo avantage i rode my carbon bike around tassy -lots of mountiam ranges because i am not good at going down hills i was getting passed alot but come to the down hill sraights , wow does the soloist fly smooth the aero works garrented


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## wsdcpark

The aerodynamic does make a difference.
They say that your body accounts for 60 to 75 percent of drag depend on your position.
If that's the case the bike accounts for 25 to 40 percent.
My father used be a retired NASA engineer and once he took me and my bike to his wind tunnel to show what kind of affect aerodynamic can have. 
I forgot excatly how he calculated but most of you power is used to overcome air resistance. If you are riding a beach cruiser at 5 mph then I guess it doesn't make a difference.
But I think there is a benefit at the speed as low as 16 mph....


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## gradosu

does anybody know how much a strong crosswind will affect the handling of the bike? or the speed for that matter?


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## Cheers!

the soloist rides like any other road bike i've been on for cross wind performance. Since it's the wheels that get affected by the cross winds.


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## [email protected]

*aero verses cross winds*

hi .i rode a thousand klm around tassie whchis a windy island ;the soloist handled brillent ly the shape of the frame optemizes the conditions the narrow frame etc, makes the bike cut through wind perfectly .i did not notice any problems with cross winds .to have a wind direction completely side on in not normal and evan then the only time i notice is when i run 404 zipps . the advantage out wieghts the negative . they are a super proforming frame .the bottom tube is the only part of the frame that is over size .having narrow rails is a large part of the proformace


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## ping771

Cheers! said:


> The bike as you see it is at 17.1 lbs. It could be lighter if I could decide what handlebar to upgrade to. I don't like this one (came with bike, it is a 3T THE). The reach is too far for the pods. That handle bar weighs in at 311g.
> 
> I thought about buying the syntace racelite carbon, but the reach is even more for that one. So right now I'm still doing my research for a Deda newton shallow drop round, Ritchey Logic classic WCS, and a Reynolds Ouzo Round carbon bar.
> 
> The next heaviest item I would like to replace is the seat post. Cervelo claims that they are going to release their single position carbon seat post for sale. That seat post is claimed at around 175 grams. The aluminum one that came with the bike is 321 grams heavy.


You have the same issues I do! I ride an FSA Wing Pro Compact handlebar (aluminum version) that has a 125mm drop and 78mm reach. Both dimensions are the shallowest/shortest I've seen. It weighs a listed 220g, and costs about $65. If you want a carbon version you can get either the K-Force Compact or SLK Compact, which have the same dimensions. 
http://www.fullspeedahead.com/fly.aspx?layout=product&taxid=41&pid=788
I have short arms and forearms. To compensate, I put the levers a bit higher as well. With my bar, I use a 100mm stem, and I can ride comfortably in the drops for a while. 

As for the seatpost, I have ordered the non-adjustable seatpost you're looking for. I bought it because it's light in comparison to the alum version, which makes for a very good doorstop. Hope this all helps.

Awesome bike btw. I'm doing upgrades too--I'm taking my full Dura Ace group off my Giant TCR Advanced and putting it on the Soloist, bought Zipp 404 tubulars, ceramic BB, and Look Keo Carbon-Ti pedals. I hope to get the bike down to about 16lbs, but I have a feeling that realistically, it'll be about 16.3 lbs. If you want to further upgrade, buy Wolf SL fork which should take another 1/3lb off. I haven't done that as the Zipps are killing my budget.


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## ping771

gradosu said:


> I've begun saving to add to my meager stable. The bike that has caught my eye is the Cervelo soloist team. From everything I have read, this bike really kicks ass for the price. I am curious about how much the 'aero' of the bike really helps out with riding alone. Can you see/feel a noticable difference between it and a normal race bike?
> Anyone have any first hand experience with this bike? Any problems with the component set? i.e. the FSA crank. or wheels? Thanks.


I ride a Soloist team too, and I believe, as well as my riding group, that I am faster on the bike. Faster in the sense I can sustain higher speeds longer b/c of reduced effort due to less drag. Bascially I can hang in with the "A" riders/racers in my group. Of course, I've also become a stronger rider over the year, but the bike does make a difference. 

The Soloist performs superbly, and as you know, Team CSC used it before the carbon versions came out in races. Matthew Goss of CSC rode on the Soloist team this summer at the Commerce Bank Triple Crown of Cycling when he got 2nd place at the Philadephia race. It's used by CSC as their training bike still. I know people will say that pros ride what they're paid to ride, and that is true, but at the same time, if a bike is good enough for a pro, then it's good enough for amateurs like me. 

As Cheers said, the brake calipers and the wheels should be upgraded. Get an Ultegra caliper set, and buy a slightly lighter wheelset if you plan on doing hillwork on a regular basis. However, sometimes I ride on the Vistas with a 12-25 cassette and don't feel bogged down. Good tires make a difference too, and the Vittoria Diamante Lites that come stock are very light--perhaps too light, and they won't last long. Good luck shopping!


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## Cheers!

I flatted my Vitorria Diamante Lites on the 1st ride 5 kms in. I ran over a piece of wood in the middle of the road when I wasn't paying attention doing a shoulder check. They are very fragile tire. They were garbage afterwards as they were cut and bulged. 

Where did you order the single position seat post?


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## ping771

Cosmic Wheel in Ridgefield Park, NJ is where I got the post and all my work done.


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## ping771

Cheers! said:


> I flatted my Vitorria Diamante Lites on the 1st ride 5 kms in. I ran over a piece of wood in the middle of the road when I wasn't paying attention doing a shoulder check. They are very fragile tire. They were garbage afterwards as they were cut and bulged.
> 
> Where did you order the single position seat post?


Are your wheels DV46T (tubs) or the DV46C (clinchers)? What tires are you riding? Are they as light as their advertised weights?


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## stevesbike

The effects of an areo frame are pretty sublte. Taking the data from Cervelo's website (Their tech presentation col de tipping point) they give the figure of .6 as the drag coefficent for a typical rider + non-areo frame. They state this is reduced by .009 with their aero frame (slc-sl) for a 1.5% savings. Plugging those numbers into analytic cycling, at 300 watts you get 25.32mph for the non-areo frame and 25.43 for the areo rider, or a difference .11 mph. Certainly not a difference that is going to mean the difference between riding in the fast group or not. Variations in rider position are much more significant, as is probably how far you unzip your jersey...


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## mclaincausey

*Stock 2007 soloist team seatpost?*



Cheers! said:


> The next heaviest item I would like to replace is the seat post. Cervelo claims that they are going to release their single position carbon seat post for sale. That seat post is claimed at around 175 grams. The aluminum one that came with the bike is 321 grams heavy.


Have you looked into getting the stock carbon seatpost from the 2007 Soloist? I have it on mine. You're right though, the reversible metal piece constitutes the majority of the weight.


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## reyesjames

I have to choose!

R3 SL or the carbon soloist? I am 200 LBS with campy neutron ultra wheels

this will be my first road bike coming from mtb.... any thoughts?


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## ping771

mclaincausey said:


> Have you looked into getting the stock carbon seatpost from the 2007 Soloist? I have it on mine. You're right though, the reversible metal piece constitutes the majority of the weight.


R&A Cycles in Brooklyn, NY sells one position carbon posts for $150. I called them two wks ago, and I asked twice just to make sure they weren't talking about the two position carbon post that is currently on the 08 soloist team (and on some other soloist bikes). The carbon two position post is glossy and still has the same head as the alum version. The carbon on the one position post is matte finish. I got the one position post from my lbs, who took it off a 56cm Carbon Soloist. Since that post was too long for me (I ride a 51cm), I had him cut the post down (I'm getting to be a weight weenie---arghhh!).


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## ping771

reyesjames said:


> I have to choose!
> 
> R3 SL or the carbon soloist? I am 200 LBS with campy neutron ultra wheels
> 
> this will be my first road bike coming from mtb.... any thoughts?



I don't know if there is a weight limitation on the R3SL. I know for example Campy has recommended rider weight limits on its carbon components like the crankset, and Speedplay has weight limits on its lightest pedals. The R3SL is lighter than the R3, but that weight savings does not make a difference given your weight is appx 200lbs. According to Competitive Cyclist's numbers, the R3 weighs 939g excluding the fork. It costs $2600. The R3SL weighs 850g excluding the fork, and costs $3300. By getting the R3SL you're weight savings is a measly 89 grams, or .196lbs. You'll be spending $7.87/gram. By the same token that weight may be necessary on the R3 to support bigger riders. I would speak to a good Cervelo retailer, and get the lowdown. 

As far as I know, the Soloist Carbon does not list weight restriction. However again, as with all carbon frames, wheels and components, it cannot handle the same weight stresses as Ti or steel.

From a performance standpoint, I do think the Soloist Carbon is a more versatile bike, a bit more aero and light enough for nearly all purposes. It weighs 1236grams, so it's 297g (.65lbs) heavier than the R3. 1/2lb is a noticeable difference, but with good wheels, you won't notice it. I can see why you chose the Neutron wheelset--they're known to be durable. However, you might want to consider a slightly lighter wheelset, since wheel weight is more crucial than frame weight because it is static weight. You want to trim weight on moving parts, like wheels, cranks, pedals, cassette, with the wheels being by far the most important investment on the bike. 

Good luck shopping!


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## reyesjames

thanks... maybe i should ask cevelo about a weight limit and the only reason the shop is selling me the R3 SL is they dont have any R3's left nor can they order them!

and for $2800 which is what has me biting!


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## ping771

reyesjames said:


> thanks... maybe i should ask cevelo about a weight limit and the only reason the shop is selling me the R3 SL is they dont have any R3's left nor can they order them!
> 
> and for $2800 which is what has me biting!


$2800 for an R3SL sounds like a good deal. If you're serious about road cycling (I see you're changing from an MTB riding), you will shed 20 lbs fairly quickly if you eat moderately. If you can get under 180lbs (totally acheivable), then I would say you wouldn't have any concerns. Perhaps the R3SL will be an incentive to drop the weight faster. I would spring for the R3SL then, lose the weight, and be vigiliant on the bike, meaning stay away from potholes, bad pavement. I would also ride on heavier wheels like the Campy Neutron. I've seen huge guys (230 lbs+) ride on Scott CR1's and Cervelo R3's and I imagine if you don't punish the bike you should be fine. Most of us are recreational riders or casual racers, so the bike should hold up for that kind of riding for all weight classes.


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## cpark

reyesjames said:


> I have to choose!
> 
> R3 SL or the carbon soloist? I am 200 LBS with campy neutron ultra wheels
> 
> this will be my first road bike coming from mtb.... any thoughts?


I don't think you can go wrong with either one of them.
I test rode Carbon Solorist SL, R3 and they all had a great ride.
I do think that the aero shape frame of Solorist is more beneficial that slight weight saving unless you will be tackling mountains.
If you are going with R3, keep your eyes open for a Time VXR Proteam.
It retails for $4300 but I just pick one up for (sold my 2005 VXR) $2500 on eBay.
It was a brand new one from a bike shop from England with the store receipt.
Therefore, I was able to send Time the warranty registration.
Since, you weigh 200lbs make sure to get the warranty registraion filled when you buy any of these frame. I weigh 185lbs and haven't had any issue with VXR (about 20,000 miles). Good Luck.


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## bbgobie

ping771 said:


> $2800 for an R3SL sounds like a good deal. If you're serious about road cycling (I see you're changing from an MTB riding), you will shed 20 lbs fairly quickly if you eat moderately. If you can get under 180lbs (totally acheivable), then I would say you wouldn't have any concerns. Perhaps the R3SL will be an incentive to drop the weight faster. I would spring for the R3SL then, lose the weight, and be vigiliant on the bike, meaning stay away from potholes, bad pavement. I would also ride on heavier wheels like the Campy Neutron. I've seen huge guys (230 lbs+) ride on Scott CR1's and Cervelo R3's and I imagine if you don't punish the bike you should be fine. Most of us are recreational riders or casual racers, so the bike should hold up for that kind of riding for all weight classes.


I'm not sure why he would magically lose 20 lbs quickly if he hasn't lost that weight already MTBing...

He also never posted that he's overweight. He could be 6'2 and muscular.
 

He also won't lose the weight easily if the bike brakes. I would buy the bike based on his current weight. Otherwise its like buying a dress assuming your going to lose weight. If you don't, what are you gonna do with the dress?


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## ping771

bbgobie said:


> I'm not sure why he would magically lose 20 lbs quickly if he hasn't lost that weight already MTBing...
> 
> He also never posted that he's overweight. He could be 6'2 and muscular.
> 
> 
> He also won't lose the weight easily if the bike brakes. I would buy the bike based on his current weight. Otherwise its like buying a dress assuming your going to lose weight. If you don't, what are you gonna do with the dress?


Shedding 20 lbs is not easy. You're right. But losing 20 lbs when you're 200 is easier than losing 20 lbs or even 10lbs if you're 150-160lbs. I was thinking in terms of losing 20 lbs over the course of 5-6 months, which is reasonable if one rides 150 miles a week consisting of 2 to 3 tempo rides on the weekdays and a long weekend ride. This is what I did to lose 20 lbs. I used to weigh 155lbs, now I weigh 133-135. It took me about 9 months to do that, though I must say that last winter I did a lot of base miles consisting of 200-225 miles per week. 

Yeah, if he were 6'2" and muscular build, then 200 is fine--but I'm not sure that an R3SL would be the best bike then. I love Cervelos, but I don't care what they say about those pencil thin seatstays being strong--if you're strong and you weigh 200lbs, there's a lot of stress being put on those thin tubes.


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## mclaincausey

ping771 said:


> R&A Cycles in Brooklyn, NY sells one position carbon posts for $150. I called them two wks ago, and I asked twice just to make sure they weren't talking about the two position carbon post that is currently on the 08 soloist team (and on some other soloist bikes). The carbon two position post is glossy and still has the same head as the alum version. The carbon on the one position post is matte finish. I got the one position post from my lbs, who took it off a 56cm Carbon Soloist. Since that post was too long for me (I ride a 51cm), I had him cut the post down (I'm getting to be a weight weenie---arghhh!).



Interesting, a matte finish is a much better choice, I'll bet it doesn't slip as easily as my glossy. I may get one of these myself.


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## uzziefly

ping771 said:


> I don't know if there is a weight limitation on the R3SL. I know for example Campy has recommended rider weight limits on its carbon components like the crankset, and Speedplay has weight limits on its lightest pedals. The R3SL is lighter than the R3, but that weight savings does not make a difference given your weight is appx 200lbs. According to Competitive Cyclist's numbers, the R3 weighs 939g excluding the fork. It costs $2600. The R3SL weighs 850g excluding the fork, and costs $3300. By getting the R3SL you're weight savings is a measly 89 grams, or .196lbs. You'll be spending $7.87/gram. By the same token that weight may be necessary on the R3 to support bigger riders. I would speak to a good Cervelo retailer, and get the lowdown.
> 
> As far as I know, the Soloist Carbon does not list weight restriction.* However again, as with all carbon frames, wheels and components, it cannot handle the same weight stresses as Ti or steel.
> *
> From a performance standpoint, I do think the Soloist Carbon is a more versatile bike, a bit more aero and light enough for nearly all purposes. It weighs 1236grams, so it's 297g (.65lbs) heavier than the R3. *1/2lb is a noticeable difference*, but with good wheels, you won't notice it. I can see why you chose the Neutron wheelset--they're known to be durable. However, you might want to consider a slightly lighter wheelset, since wheel weight is more crucial than frame weight because it is static weight. You want to trim weight on moving parts, like wheels, cranks, pedals, cassette, with the wheels being by far the most important investment on the bike.
> 
> Good luck shopping!


#1 - not really true. There are several pro tour riders who are bulky so to speak (sprinters mainly) and they ride full carbon bikes just as well and, they'll put more stress on the bike and components then any other guy ever can.

Also, Bontrager's Race XXX Lite wheelset (their lightest) has no rider weight restrictions and that's a full carbon wheelset too. 

#2 - again, honestly, it doesn't really matter if you wanna really talk about noticing the difference. Why? Coz on a flat, it hardly matters for one thing. On climbs, you're better off losing body weight, or so and that would have an even bigger effect because the bike weight is only a very small fraction of the TOTAL rider+bike weight. What's .65lbs compared to say, 150lbs (rider) + 17lbs (bike) + 2lbs (water)= 169lbs. So .65/167 - do the math.. 

Would Alberto Contador have preferred to use the Madones with OCLV Red instead of the Madone 5.2 with OCLV Black that Team Discovery used for the tour? Probably. Would he have been faster? Heck, he'd climb like a rocket even with a full aluminum bike up those mountains still..

Just saying that well, weight differences on a bike hardly matters for the price difference they normally cost. You could save that $$ and keep it, or get some nice outfits, or hire a coach, or get wheels or well, you get the idea.

If weight is a concern, take this into account. Unless anyone has set their mind on getting the best frame in the line of a certain brand (say the R3 SL, or the Madone 6.9 or so) then well, fine. But if they're contemplating on either a lighter version or not, then this might be something to consider to save $$. Just sayin. 

YMMV.

I agree with wheels as an important investment. But tires are important too in ride quality. 

Also, as far as deep dish wheels go, well, lots are just about the same. It's kinda like which bike brand is better in that sense. Go with one you can afford and like. Or save up for something you really want. 

Good luck OP and teh like. :thumbsup:

And post pictures in the bikes forum maybe so more people can see your new bike.


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## uzziefly

ping771 said:


> Shedding 20 lbs is not easy. You're right. But losing 20 lbs when you're 200 is easier than losing 20 lbs or even 10lbs if you're 150-160lbs. I was thinking in terms of losing 20 lbs over the course of 5-6 months, which is reasonable if one rides 150 miles a week consisting of 2 to 3 tempo rides on the weekdays and a long weekend ride. This is what I did to lose 20 lbs. I used to weigh 155lbs, now I weigh 133-135. It took me about 9 months to do that, though I must say that last winter I did a lot of base miles consisting of 200-225 miles per week.
> 
> Yeah, if he were 6'2" and muscular build, then 200 is fine--but I'm not sure that an R3SL would be the best bike then. I love Cervelos, but I don't care what they say about those pencil thin seatstays being strong--if you're strong and you weigh 200lbs, there's a lot of stress being put on those thin tubes.


Or he could be 6'4'' @ 200lbs 

Actually, I lost like 3lbs the other day coz I almost dehydrated and I weigh(ed) 130 lbs... Dammit.... And I'm 5'9"


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## ping771

uzziefly: I agree with what you were saying--in a way I was saying that he should disregard the weight limits. I know that Campy has suggested weight limits on their carbon cranks and Speedplay has one too on their lightest pedals. I'm sure there are tons of riders over their weight limit who have had no problems. I don't think those parts will fail due to weight (unless we're talking about a 400-500 lb person), however if there is a component failure, the company's liability is reduced by issuing such a warning.


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## stunzeed

I got lucky, my LBS called cervelo and ervelo called their dealers to find a r3 for me. Turned out another dealer in another state had a 51 r3 and sent it to my LBS and I had it within a week


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