# Niobium 30mm rims



## percy (May 17, 2004)

Just curious if anyone knows how many different wheel companies are using the 30mm niobium "super alloy" rims. 

Looks like this rim is being used by Williams, and there's an IRD version (Cadence Aero) and a Speedcific version. Easton looks like they might be using it too.

I've read they're all the same rim with different labels and that they all come from one manufacturer in Taiwan. 

Looks like a really good rim that's pretty widely used.


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## rruff (Feb 28, 2006)

percy said:


> Looks like a really good rim that's pretty widely used.


I agree. Funny, I was just wondering who made those rims, and then I saw your post. I've heard that there is only one company that holds the patent or license on niobium (for bike rims anyway), but I don't know which company it is or what else they make besides niobium bike rims. I think they make rims for AC and Rolf as well.

The 19mm double eyelet rim is also widely used and quite light.


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## ctracer01 (Jan 5, 2006)

*i think this is the company*



percy said:


> Just curious if anyone knows how many different wheel companies are using the 30mm niobium "super alloy" rims.
> 
> Looks like this rim is being used by Williams, and there's an IRD version (Cadence Aero) and a Speedcific version. Easton looks like they might be using it too.
> 
> ...


http://www.wahchang.com/pages/products/data/niobium/C-103_Overview.pdf

so who's got the best designed niobium rim??

easton went for a parabolic, but the bulge is, um, minimalistic at best. IRD opted for a standard deep V. anyone know what the speedcific/williams version is?

good stuff, in any case.


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## wasfast (Feb 3, 2004)

wah chang is a materials manufacturer and does make custom parts for the defense industry. However, I'm pretty sure they don't make rims but sell the raw material to extruders. 

Side note: I moved from Albany, Oregon just last fall where Wah Chang is located.


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## ctracer01 (Jan 5, 2006)

haha.

goes to show what i know/what i find on google


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## DIRT BOY (Aug 22, 2002)

Same Taiwanese company that makes rims for American Classic, IRD and are availabe as gerenric rims. Our builder uses these 24m and 30mm Nobium.

Here are my 24mm Nobium rims


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## rruff (Feb 28, 2006)

ctracer01 said:


> anyone know what the speedcific/williams version is?


IRD and Speedcific are the same rim... I think Williams is too. They all sell 19mm and 30mm.

BTW, the 30mm is a better profile than a Deep V... not such an abrupt angle change.


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## rruff (Feb 28, 2006)

DIRT BOY said:


> Same Taiwanese company that makes rims for American Classic, IRD and are availabe as gerenric rims. Our builder uses these 24m and 30mm Nobium.
> 
> Here are my 24mm Nobium rims


So... are those the same rims as the AC 350s? Look nice... and must be very light if so. 

What is the name of the company that's making them? Do you sell just the rims?


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## Ligero (Oct 21, 2005)

rruff said:


> So... are those the same rims as the AC 350s? Look nice... and must be very light if so.
> 
> What is the name of the company that's making them? Do you sell just the rims?


The 24mm rims are not the same as the AC 350's in fact they are heavier then the 30mm rims, all the ones I got weighed 470 grams. All of them are made by he same company which is Kin Lin.


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## DIRT BOY (Aug 22, 2002)

Mine ARE the same as the AC 350 are are very light. Mine weigh 362g each


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## DIRT BOY (Aug 22, 2002)

Yes, mine are. But the newer ones are heavier. I should have clarified this. But they are still decently light for 24mm rims.
Most in the 450g range.

We only sell our Nobium rims as complete wheels.
My set came in @ 1340g with DT Aerolite spokes and Primavera hubs and these are the older 24mm AC350 rims.

All rims that we care are cherry-picked for weight savings.


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## Ligero (Oct 21, 2005)

DIRT BOY said:


> Yes, mine are. We only sell them as complete wheels.
> my set came in @ 1340g with DT Aerolite spokes and Primavera hubs.
> 
> All rims that we care are cherry-picked for weight savings.


The pair you have is AC 350 rims (I talked to him about it when you got your wheels) but the 24mm rims you are getting now are not. I have bought the 24mm rims from the same guy you do and everyone of them has weighed 470 grams. I even returned some because he told me they should weigh 420g and the set he sent out to replace my "heavy" set weighed 468 and 472 grams! The Kin Lin catalog lists the 24mm rim as having a claimed weight of 470 grams so even if the rims were cherry picked that will not make them 100 grams lighter each to be the same weight as AC 350's which weigh 365g.


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## DIRT BOY (Aug 22, 2002)

Correct, newer versions are not the same. But ones I we are using are coming in below the claimed weight. We just sold some theat were in the lower 450g range.

I am aware you deal with the same guy I do. Again rims used for our builds are lightest of the bunch. 

Our 25mm Clincher rims are coming around 1380g +/- 10g still.

Yes and the 30mm Nobium rims are now lighter than the 24mm ones.
Do you know why the factory made these heavier?

We built some wheels with the 21mm Niobium rims and Extralite hubs that came in @ 1234gm


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## Ligero (Oct 21, 2005)

DIRT BOY said:


> Correct, newer versions are not the same. But ones I we are using are coming in below the claimed weight. We just sold some theat were in the lower 450g range.
> 
> I am aware you deal with the same guy I do. Again rims used for our builds are lightest of the bunch.
> 
> ...


So if the rims are 450g each that is 900g. Then the hubs weigh 300g for the pair. 44 Dt aerolites with alloy nipples will weigh 220 grams. So that puts the wheels at 1420 grams for the pair. In order to get the wheels down to 1380 the rims would need to be 430 grams. Even if the rims are cherry picked you are not going to come up with rims that are 40 grams lighter then the claimed weight.


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## DIRT BOY (Aug 22, 2002)

Well, I will try to get rim weights. These are the weights I am being told.
All wheels that are biult fome have come within a few grams of the published weights!
I have never had wheels come fro him that are way out of weight.


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## rruff (Feb 28, 2006)

DIRT BOY said:


> Yes and the 30mm Nobium rims are now lighter than the 24mm ones.
> Do you know why the factory made these heavier?


I'm wondering too... and I'd have to guess that AC has a proprietary deal with them and you were not supposed to be getting the light rims... ie they aren't available to anyone else. Rolf uses them too, though... so maybe it is possible to get on the "list"... but I doubt it. 

At least the ~470g 24mm rims should be durable so you could sell them from that angle...

Any reason why you don't want to use the 19mm rims? They are pretty light anyway.


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## Ligero (Oct 21, 2005)

rruff said:


> I'm wondering too... and I'd have to guess that AC has a proprietary deal with them and you were not supposed to be getting the light rims... ie they aren't available to anyone else. Rolf uses them too, though... so maybe it is possible to get on the "list"... but I doubt it.
> 
> At least the ~470g 24mm rims should be durable so you could sell them from that angle...
> 
> Any reason why you don't want to use the 19mm rims? They are pretty light anyway.


AC does have a exclusive deal with KinLin. Rolf paid for the development and tooling of the 420 rim with the agreement that he could also have access to the 350 rim.


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## DIRT BOY (Aug 22, 2002)

> I'm wondering too... and I'd have to guess that AC has a proprietary deal with them and you were not supposed to be getting the light rims... ie they aren't available to anyone else. Rolf uses them too, though... so maybe it is possible to get on the "list"... but I doubt it.


Probaly. A WHOLE lot of people were getting these including the MTB versions.



> Any reason why you don't want to use the 19mm rims? They are pretty light anyway.


I wanted something slighty aero and I was offered these for a good price when I started with my builder as promotion for our wheels. 

I could never ride the 30mm rims or larger ones here were I ride. 99% of my riding is next to the bay. So you deal with some really good cross winds whichy aero wheels suck in. Sometimes even with my 24mm rims you can feel the effect.


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## DIRT BOY (Aug 22, 2002)

Ligero said:


> So if the rims are 450g each that is 900g. Then the hubs weigh 300g for the pair. 44 Dt aerolites with alloy nipples will weigh 220 grams. So that puts the wheels at 1420 grams for the pair. In order to get the wheels down to 1380 the rims would need to be 430 grams. Even if the rims are cherry picked you are not going to come up with rims that are 40 grams lighter then the claimed weight.


Nope, I got a conformation. The 25mm rims we now use are 420-440gm.

Those 24mm you use to get are no longer availabe were between 455-470g.<o></o>


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## xcandrew (May 30, 2002)

Are 30 mm deep rims shallow enough that you can get by using tubes with normal valve stem lengths? I'm collecting parts to build a set of wheels and I'm trying to decide between Velocity Aerohead/OC, and the IRD shallow or 30 mm rims. If the deeper rims will require more thought in tube selection, it probably wouldn't be worth it for my riding.


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## Ligero (Oct 21, 2005)

xcandrew said:


> Are 30 mm deep rims shallow enough that you can get by using tubes with normal valve stem lengths? I'm collecting parts to build a set of wheels and I'm trying to decide between Velocity Aerohead/OC, and the IRD shallow or 30 mm rims. If the deeper rims will require more thought in tube selection, it probably wouldn't be worth it for my riding.


You will need tubes with a long valve stem.


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## jhenry4 (Feb 4, 2006)

*stiffness*

how stiff of a wheel can be built on these new lightweight 30mm rims? i'm looking for something of comparable stiffness to campy eurus or zonda wheels but at a lower price. 
i'm 200lbs and rock the bike a lot for out of the saddle sprinting and climbing so lateral stiffness is key.

thanks


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## rruff (Feb 28, 2006)

jhenry4 said:


> how stiff of a wheel can be built on these new lightweight 30mm rims? i'm looking for something of comparable stiffness to campy eurus or zonda wheels but at a lower price.
> i'm 200lbs and rock the bike a lot for out of the saddle sprinting and climbing so lateral stiffness is key.


If you use a hub with wide flange spacing and use plenty of spokes it should be stiff enough.

I wonder if lateral stiffness is really important though. Ksyriums are thought to be laterally stiff but they aren't at all. What is a couple of mm of lateral flex going to hurt anyway? The rim doesn't flex that much compared to the frame, tire, stem, forks, etc. The Campy wheels with G3 lacing can take a greater side force before the spokes go slack on the NDS, and that is probably more important than stiffness.

You could get a 32 hole rim, a 32 hole Campy or Shimano hub (or any other with wide spacing), and lace it G3 style with 16 3x on the drive side and 8 radial on the NDS, heads in. The tension should end up the same on both sides.


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## percy (May 17, 2004)

I'm having Ligero make up some wheels with these rims and I'll post a ride report once I have some miles on them. Here are the specs he recommended for me at 200+ pounds:

30mm Niobium Rims drilled 24-hole
White Ind H1 hubs (drilled 24 front, 32 rear)
CX-Ray spokes
Front lacing will be 1x
Rear is "G3" style with 16 drive side spokes laced 3x and 8 non-drive spokes laced 1x


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