# Giro - THE HAMMER



## drummerboy1248 (Jan 6, 2005)

Was that the sound of Contador nailing the coffins shut on all other GC contenders today. Short of him having a crash, illness, or some other sort of really bad day, it looks like he may have the top of the double header well in hand. I wonder if any of the other major players currently in California would have an answer for these monster uphill attacks.


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## tober1 (Feb 6, 2009)

Seriously. 
What a ride. He's the mountains version of Cancellara. Just rode away from the other guys. Fun stage to watch, although I couldn't find an english version to stream.


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## Kram (Jan 28, 2004)

tober1 said:


> Seriously.
> What a ride. He's the mountains version of Cancellara. Just rode away from the other guys. Fun stage to watch, although I couldn't find an english version to stream.


Made the others look silly. Pretty impressive. I need to learn Italian...


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## robdamanii (Feb 13, 2006)

Made others either look stupid for not following, or geniuses for not burning the matches with 2 weeks (and a crap ton of vertical) left to race. 

Let's see how he and his team deal with defending pink.


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## Lazy Spinner (Aug 30, 2009)

I've suddenly become disinterested.


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## Salsa_Lover (Jul 6, 2008)

robdamanii said:


> Made others either look stupid for not following, or geniuses for not burning the matches with 2 weeks (and a crap ton of vertical) left to race.
> 
> Let's see how he and his team deal with defending pink.


Scarponi and Nibali are geniouses, they did the perfect "bluff" today


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## AJL (Jul 9, 2009)

robdamanii said:


> Made others either look stupid for not following, or geniuses for not burning the matches with 2 weeks (and a crap ton of vertical) left to race.
> 
> Let's see how he and his team deal with defending pink.


I'm sure Contador can deal with the pressure of defending it - he's had plenty of practice (even with a 'team' that was trying to undermine him).


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## robdamanii (Feb 13, 2006)

AJL said:


> I'm sure Contador can deal with the pressure of defending it - he's had plenty of practice (even with a 'team' that was trying to undermine him).


The Tour and this Giro are very different creatures. Just sayin'.


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## waldo425 (Sep 22, 2008)

robdamanii said:


> Made others either look stupid for not following, or geniuses for not burning the matches with 2 weeks (and a crap ton of vertical) left to race.
> 
> Let's see how he and his team deal with defending pink.


This is what I'm interested in seeing. It would be quite impressive if he can hold onto the pink jersey for 2 weeks.


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## tberg (Jan 21, 2007)

Very impressive ride, but why??? I'm sure his teammates are thinking the Giro just got a lot longer...maybe it's just me, but Conti seems a bit scared and had to flex his pistol today to re-assure himself.


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## rogger (Aug 19, 2005)

Salsa_Lover said:


> Scarponi and Nibali are geniouses, they did the perfect "bluff" today


Italian military tactic that works all the time.


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## DM_ARCH (Feb 23, 2007)

Not sure he'll actually carry the pink jersey for two weeks, but I bet he finished on top of the GC in the end.


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## jhamlin38 (Oct 29, 2005)

tomorrow's a rest day. i'd say it's done and dusted, with a whole lotta pain until the last day


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## albert owen (Jul 7, 2008)

Just brilliant. 
Last year he wasn't at his best at any point, but today he was a class apart. He rides without fear - a pure racing genius.


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## nismo73 (Jul 29, 2009)

tober1 said:


> Fun stage to watch, although I couldn't find an english version to stream.


It wasn't for a while...Later on it was in english on the Euro Sport online link.


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## pretender (Sep 18, 2007)

tberg said:


> Very impressive ride, but why???


The winner of the Giro is the one with the lowest cumulative time.

Weird, I know.


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## drummerboy1248 (Jan 6, 2005)

I think it is now up to the teams of the other contenders to get time back on AC. Even if his team all tanks out and leaves him alone, it looks like he's got the motor to sit on anyone else's wheel and hold onto pink. Much like he did with the Schleck's at last year's TDF. I'll be watching to find out.


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## 55x11 (Apr 24, 2006)

AJL said:


> I'm sure Contador can deal with the pressure of defending it - he's had plenty of practice (even with a 'team' that was trying to undermine him).


while I agree that today's ride by Contador was very impressive let me remind you that stage 7 of Giro last year in Montalcino (a lot of mud, remember?) was won by Cadel and put Vino in pink - and they put 2+ minutes on Basso and Nibali (both crashed and were quickly declared "out of reach for the win" by many fans).

It would be really ironic (I know, wishful thinking!) if Conti suffers on Zoncolan next weekend or some other mountain stage and loses 2-3+ minutes to Nibali & Co.


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## DiegoMontoya (Apr 11, 2010)

tberg said:


> Very impressive ride, but why??? I'm sure his teammates are thinking the Giro just got a lot longer...maybe it's just me, but Conti seems a bit scared and had to flex his pistol today to re-assure himself.


That brilliant piece of analysis brought to you by Livestrong.com.


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## robdamanii (Feb 13, 2006)

DiegoMontoya said:


> That brilliant piece of analysis brought to you by Livestrong.com.


What reason does he have to take pink this early? That's counterintuitive to ANY grand tour strategy. Now he and his team have to control the race for two weeks, unless he wants to give the jersey away. If that was the case, why take it today in the first place?


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## pretender (Sep 18, 2007)

robdamanii said:


> What reason does he have to take pink this early? That's counterintuitive to ANY grand tour strategy. Now he and his team have to control the race for two weeks, unless he wants to give the jersey away. If that was the case, why take it today in the first place?


This line of thought is irrational. If you want to win the GC, your team has to "control the race" irrespective of what color jersey you happen to be wearing. In a stage race, you put time into your competitors when and where you can. Mountain-top finish and rest day tomorrow, great day for Contador to assert himself.


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## robdamanii (Feb 13, 2006)

pretender said:


> This line of thought is irrational. If you want to win the GC, your team has to "control the race" irrespective of what color jersey you happen to be wearing. In a stage race, you put time into your competitors when and where you can. Mountain-top finish and rest day tomorrow, great day for Contador to assert himself.


Irrational is burning a match to gain a minute today, when he could very easily have saved a lot of energy for the big 3 back to back to back finishes.

We'll see. He's not know for forethought and tactical thinking, that's for sure. Let's see if he can simply rely on brute strength to win something this tough.


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## moabbiker (Sep 11, 2002)

It was the Contador of old today - massive brutal attack. I wonder if Andy Schleck is watching this from his hotel room on his California vacation. Must be in great fear, seeking the comfort of his brother.


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## Jwiffle (Mar 18, 2005)

robdamanii said:


> Made others either look stupid for not following, or geniuses for not burning the matches with 2 weeks (and a crap ton of vertical) left to race.
> 
> Let's see how he and his team deal with defending pink.


With a rest day tomorrow, Conti may believe he'll gain a match back, or at least not burned one completely.

I'm not sure defending the pink will be so difficult for him. Sit on the wheels of the other contenders, and only respond if you have to. If the others were to team up against him, sure, they could probably break him...but at what risk to their individual hopes for glory? So they may be too wary of each other to work well together against him.


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## pretender (Sep 18, 2007)

robdamanii said:


> Irrational is burning a match to gain a minute today, when he could very easily have saved a lot of energy for the big 3 back to back to back finishes.


Almost an entire week from now? It hardly looked like Contador was turning himself inside-out today. There are five days between now and Grosslockner.

But let's get back to that whole idea of how "defending the jersey" (I guess your phrase was "having to control the race") is such an onerous burden. Any serious GC contender would rather be a minute ahead than a minute behind, at any stage of the race. Especially for a guy like Contador, who isn't exactly going to sneak up on anyone.


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## atpjunkie (Mar 23, 2002)

who cares? he rides with Moxy, he rides like a guy who knows he's stronger than his competition. He doesn't ride conservatively timing his attacks, he goes when his legs tell him to. I'm not a fan of the guy (or Grand Tours for the matter) and I appreciate the way he races a GT.


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## gh1 (Jun 7, 2008)

55x11 said:


> while I agree that today's ride by Contador was very impressive let me remind you that stage 7 of Giro last year in Montalcino (a lot of mud, remember?) was won by Cadel and put Vino in pink - and they put 2+ minutes on Basso and Nibali (both crashed and were quickly declared "out of reach for the win" by many fans).
> 
> It would be really ironic (I know, wishful thinking!) if Conti suffers on Zoncolan next weekend or some other mountain stage and loses 2-3+ minutes to Nibali & Co.


Point taken but Cadel and Vino can never, will never climb as well as Basso and Nibali, Contador is not Cadel or Vino in any form.And Cadel had no team last year at all.


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## gh1 (Jun 7, 2008)

DiegoMontoya said:


> That brilliant piece of analysis brought to you by Livestrong.com.


THAT is some funny sh*t


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## gh1 (Jun 7, 2008)

robdamanii said:


> Made others either look stupid for not following, or geniuses for not burning the matches with 2 weeks (and a crap ton of vertical) left to race.
> 
> Let's see how he and his team deal with defending pink.


Defend Pink in a climbers tour by the worlds best climber who now only has to follow wheels to win the giro? I am sure all the teams wished they had this problem.


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## weltyed (Feb 6, 2004)

robdamanii said:


> Irrational is burning a match to gain a minute today, when he could very easily have saved a lot of energy for the big 3 back to back to back finishes.
> 
> We'll see. He's not know for forethought and tactical thinking, that's for sure. Let's see if he can simply rely on brute strength to win something this tough.


ever since he had to ride with/against armstrong, contador has done things we find counter-intuitive. i can only think of two times these instances came back to haunt him. once was when he didnt eat enough on the bike. the other was when he missed a break that armstrong and company knew about. with a rest day, this was a great move for him. build a nearly 90 second lead to the next big GC threat before the bigger mountains, and bigger time bonuses, come. he now has house money to play with.

and conti doesnt really need to worry about his team as he has ridden for himself the past few years, be it against armstrong or vino.


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## AdamM (Jul 9, 2008)

Incredible ride by Contador. There's a wide open intensity to the Giro's climbing stages.


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## AJL (Jul 9, 2009)

55x11 said:


> while I agree that today's ride by Contador was very impressive let me remind you that stage 7 of Giro last year in Montalcino (a lot of mud, remember?) was won by Cadel and put Vino in pink - and they put 2+ minutes on Basso and Nibali (both crashed and were quickly declared "out of reach for the win" by many fans).
> 
> It would be really ironic (I know, wishful thinking!) if Conti suffers on Zoncolan next weekend or some other mountain stage and loses 2-3+ minutes to Nibali & Co.


Oh, something can go wrong and he certainly can lose, or even have to drop out of the race. I was commenting that the pressure of holding the pink jersey probably won't likely contribute to any downfall he may have.


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## baker921 (Jul 20, 2007)

GC contenders often don't defend the jersey in the TdF at the beginning as there are usually a lot of long fast flat stages which sprinters teams will control or a break away without GC contenders will win. The rest of this Giro is pretty hilly and anyway AC will be "defending" against his rivals anyway, with or without the jersey.


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## thehook (Mar 14, 2006)

Would all GIRO hopefuls report to the back of the woodshed. EL Pistelero has a beating waiting for you.


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## Salsa_Lover (Jul 6, 2008)

Conti wanted the Etna win. 

The Etna comes after 6 years, so probably the next time he'll be too old to go for it.

He'll go all in for the Zoncolan too.


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## alexb618 (Aug 24, 2006)

contador made everyone else look like a cat 3 club racer


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## doggatas (Apr 9, 2010)

"I ride to take advantage of the race situation. I like racing. When I've got the legs I take all the opportunities I can. It wasn't a long stage, but I think it was a spectacular stage for everyone to watch." *-Alberto Contador*

Thats why he's in pink, merely a byproduct of having the legs today.

I'm sure they are hoping the Italian teams continue to do the lions share of work on the front of the peleton.


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## jhamlin38 (Oct 29, 2005)

Contador absolutely dominated today. I think a very aggressive and a smart move b4 a rest day. Basso, Schleck, Gesink and all the other contenders will certainly have taken notice of his performance today, with thoughts toward the Tour. They're probably crapping themselves, and quietly hope he's not allowed to participate.
I think we need to prepare ourselves for a 5 to 8 minute overall victory, with a battle for 2nd and 3rd.


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## Jwiffle (Mar 18, 2005)

jhamlin38 said:


> Contador absolutely dominated today. I think a very aggressive and a smart move b4 a rest day. Basso, Schleck, Gesink and all the other contenders will certainly have taken notice of his performance today, with thoughts toward the Tour. They're probably crapping themselves, and quietly hope he's not allowed to participate.
> I think we need to prepare ourselves for a 5 to 8 minute overall victory, with a battle for 2nd and 3rd.


Actually, Basso et al may be hoping Contador wins the Giro. Why? Because doing so may wear him out enough that he won't be in his best form in July. Then they'll get to race against him and win, and there won't be anyone to say, "You only won because you didn't have to race against Contador."


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## robdamanii (Feb 13, 2006)

jhamlin38 said:


> Contador absolutely dominated today. I think a very aggressive and a smart move b4 a rest day. Basso, Schleck, Gesink and all the other contenders will certainly have taken notice of his performance today, with thoughts toward the Tour. They're probably crapping themselves, and quietly hope he's not allowed to participate.
> I think we need to prepare ourselves for a 5 to 8 minute overall victory, with a *battle for 2nd and 3rd.*


Which will be battle for first when he gets popped (again)?


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## matchmaker (Aug 15, 2009)

Yep, the hammer. I am no Contador fan, but his style of riding is entertaining.

We will have to see though if this was a good strategical move. It all depends on how hard the Italian teams are going to play it. If they have the courage to let a group take a huge lead and not help Conti to get back, then his team will have to sweat.

Also, you can never exclude a bad day for Contador. But yes, by all means he is the big favorite.


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## tberg (Jan 21, 2007)

DiegoMontoya said:


> That brilliant piece of analysis brought to you by Livestrong.com.


Funny, I thought I wrote that???


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## 55x11 (Apr 24, 2006)

gh1 said:


> Point taken but Cadel and Vino can never, will never climb as well as Basso and Nibali, Contador is not Cadel or Vino in any form.And Cadel had no team last year at all.


I agree with all of those. Just using it as an example of danger in extrapolating what happened on any given stage to how the remaining stages will unfold.

Having said that, Contador was my favorite for a win before Giro started, and he solidified his position with performance today. But it's by no means a done deal. In fact, I am a bit surprised by how much aggression he already showed in the past two days. 

This is reminiscent of Basso in 2006, when he won by 9 minutes totally dominating the rest of the field on EVERY single stage, by huge margins.


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## spade2you (May 12, 2009)

robdamanii said:


> Made others either look stupid for not following, or geniuses for not burning the matches with 2 weeks (and a crap ton of vertical) left to race.
> 
> Let's see how he and his team deal with defending pink.


Hard to say. Having been a racer, when _that_ guy makes a move, it's not a matter of being too chicken to chase him down, but a sense of awe and the understanding that there's no way in hell that you're matching that. Even if they worked 100% together, it they might have brought back ~15-20 seconds at best. 

Will he pay for it? That's to be seen, but I don't think it's a coincidence that he made such an attack the day before a rest day. Unless he comes unglued, I don't really see anyone stopping him at this point.


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## Mapei (Feb 3, 2004)

The Accountant banged the proverbial fist on the proverbial table. He's a throwback. A swashbuckler. He does what everybody likes about Vino, but he manages to pull it off with remarkable success. He has the will to win. When necessary, he's not afraid to get his hands a little dirty. 

To American eyes, he's an odd duck with some odd affectations. He'd certainly be more popular if he spoke English better. In any case, I'm a fan.


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## JohnHenry (Aug 9, 2006)

anyone have some video?

found it: looks like Contador's style, per usual.


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## zosocane (Aug 29, 2004)

55x11 said:


> This is reminiscent of Basso in 2006, when he won by 9 minutes totally dominating the rest of the field on EVERY single stage, by huge margins.


Yes, the days when Basso was riding like an extra-terrestrial ...


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## jd3 (Oct 8, 2004)

Did you watch Conti after he and the other rider were well in front. Conti didn't just want time, he wanted the win. Yesterday and today were all about showing he can ride away from everyone even if he didn't have steak for dinner.


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## RipTide (May 4, 2007)

I appreciate impressive performances, but I have a certain disdain for Conti. The fun of watching is gone when that guy is so much better than everyone else. Now I have the rest of the Giro to watch him mark all the other GC "contenders."


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## BAi9302010 (Mar 7, 2002)

Contador just did the same thing that Armstrong did every year at the Tour. Massive attack on the first big climb & then attack & tt to defend or extend his lead when opportunities arise. There's no way any of the other riders could possibly have followed those accelerations. It was almost painful to watch everyone else. I'm sure there was a lot of wispering amongst the other riders after the stage considering the circumstances. Without Contador this looks like it would've been a very close Giro. If AC keeps riding like this (and considering his history, there's no reason to believe he won't), it's looking like he's going to have a massive winning margin by the end of these three weeks.


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## Gnarly 928 (Nov 19, 2005)

Impressive ride! One wonders how he can be that much faster than those other guys. I hope he is riding clean.......


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## Ventruck (Mar 9, 2009)

doggatas said:


> "I ride to take advantage of the race situation. I like racing. When I've got the legs I take all the opportunities I can. It wasn't a long stage, but I think it was a spectacular stage for everyone to watch." *-Alberto Contador*
> 
> Thats why he's in pink, merely a byproduct of having the legs today.


Basically how I saw it. It doesn't mean he's got the Giro in the bag, but he surely took advantage of showing up well...and there's still people giving him **** for that.


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## den bakker (Nov 13, 2004)

Ventruck said:


> Basically how I saw it. It doesn't mean he's got the Giro in the bag, but he surely took advantage of showing up well...and there's still people giving him **** for that.


Next up: complaints that Andy attacked too late in the mountains.


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## Kvonnah (Sep 26, 2002)

*MIssed it *

I am in the Philippines and everywhere I have tried to stream the Giro from has the "not available in your Geographic location" message. 

I fail to see how anyone can't be a fan of Conti, when he goes he crushes. That is what it is all about. How can anyone not love an attack that rips the legs off of everyone else? I hope I can watch this stage when I get back to the states Thursday. It is awesome here but I miss cycling and Oscar Blues Ten-fidy!


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## Salsa_Lover (Jul 6, 2008)

Lance will win this at the end.


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## spade2you (May 12, 2009)

RipTide said:


> I appreciate impressive performances, but I have a certain disdain for Conti. The fun of watching is gone when that guy is so much better than everyone else. Now I have the rest of the Giro to watch him mark all the other GC "contenders."


Another Armstrong fan, eh? It's interesting when Armstrong or Pantani does it, but not Contador? This is a stage race, not who you'd rather go on a dinner date with.


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## den bakker (Nov 13, 2004)

spade2you said:


> Another Armstrong fan, eh? It's interesting when Armstrong or Pantani does it, but not Contador? This is a stage race, not who you'd rather go on a dinner date with.


Amstrong takes yellow on stage 11? Shows who's the BOSS!
on stage 8? Put the other riders in their place early. 
stage 4? Let's close the race early.
stage 10? 

Contador on stage 9? OMG What a noob. 

Did anyone see how Armstrong stupidly burned matches on the first day in 2005 when he caught and passed Ullrich? What was he thinking!!


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## RipTide (May 4, 2007)

spade2you said:


> Another Armstrong fan, eh? It's interesting when Armstrong or Pantani does it, but not Contador? This is a stage race, not who you'd rather go on a dinner date with.


That is an odd way to interpret my post. Perhaps this is your standard when anyone is criticized. To state more plainly, the Giro would me more interesting for me if I didn't already know who was going to win.


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## robdamanii (Feb 13, 2006)

den bakker said:


> Amstrong takes yellow on stage 11? Shows who's the BOSS!
> on stage 8? Put the other riders in their place early.
> stage 4? Let's close the race early.
> stage 10?
> ...


So you're suggesting that Contador, like LA is doped to the gills?


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## den bakker (Nov 13, 2004)

robdamanii said:


> So you're suggesting that Contador, like LA is doped to the gills?


I can see why you want to change the topic  
have a nice day.


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## AJL (Jul 9, 2009)

den bakker said:


> Amstrong takes yellow on stage 11? Shows who's the BOSS!
> on stage 8? Put the other riders in their place early.
> stage 4? Let's close the race early.
> stage 10?
> ...


+1. Contador hasn't won 5 Grand Tours by being a total idiot.


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## AJL (Jul 9, 2009)

robdamanii said:


> So you're suggesting that Contador, like LA is doped to the gills?


Hey, pls don't send this thread into Exile.


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## robdamanii (Feb 13, 2006)

den bakker said:


> I can see why you want to change the topic
> have a nice day.


Why? Because you've proven that taking pink on stage 9 is brilliant?

I'll laugh my ass off when the Spanish Wonder comes undone in the dolomites.


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## spade2you (May 12, 2009)

robdamanii said:


> I'll laugh my ass off when the Spanish Wonder comes undone in the dolomites.


...and if he doesn't?


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## den bakker (Nov 13, 2004)

robdamanii said:


> Why? Because you've proven that taking pink on stage 9 is brilliant?
> 
> I'll laugh my ass off when the Spanish Wonder comes undone in the dolomites.


nothing brilliant has been done. He took time when the chance arose. I think its only in your world that is a bizarre thing to do. people go hard on prologue as well, no surprise there. 
Having pink is of no consequence. If big names go they have to chase in any case and they won't care if Weening, say, gets 10 minutes tomorrow and takes it (again in Weenings case).
Of course, you have already prepared your "extra terrestrial" should Contador win.


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## robdamanii (Feb 13, 2006)

spade2you said:


> ...and if he doesn't?


I'll eat a slice of humble pie. :thumbsup: 

A minute won't mean much with the last two weeks ahead. Could be gone in a flash.



> nothing brilliant has been done. He took time when the chance arose. I think its only in your world that is a bizarre thing to do. people go hard on prologue as well, no surprise there.
> Having pink is of no consequence. If big names go they have to chase in any case and they won't care if Weening, say, gets 10 minutes tomorrow and takes it (again in Weenings case).
> Of course, you have already prepared your "extra terrestrial" should Contador win.


Yup. Contador will have to chase Scarponi, Nibali, Le Mevel, Kreuziger and any other GC threat. That's going to cost him. Simple fact.

I'm sure it will come out that there was steak involved. After all, he was already busted once and gifted a second chance. But that's another thread entirely.

2 weeks left. Lot of racing to go, but you've crowned him already. You sound like a Bears fan.


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## weltyed (Feb 6, 2004)

whoa, its getting heated in here.

i think contis move was remarkable. it gained him time, on which the race is based. yeah, its early in the race to have pink. yeah, he may suffer in the dolomites. but it is much easier to follow someone up the hill, just ask lance and andy. armstrong would get the lead and just follow his closest competition. boring racing, but it got the job done. andy just followed because he was scared - and content with second place. 

two weeks left and anything can happen. whuile he might have a bad day in the mountains, i dont believe the effort he put forth sunday will cause that bad day. the only risk he took was showing all other riders:
1) he wants to win
2) he knows he may not ride le Tour, so go to #1
3) it will take more than one man to beat him

its that last one that should worry him most. if he gets isolated against nibali, kreutzinger and scarponi he might have trouble fending off the salvos. i didnt see conti use his team much, other than to get back on after the mechanical.

btw, when that mechanical happened i had memories of other racers flying by the group after getting back on and taking the stage win. i thought it was too far out for him to do the same. while he didnt just fly by, it still took some effort to get back on, work through the peleton, and then attack. endorphins surely kicked in, and i would like to leave it at that.


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## den bakker (Nov 13, 2004)

weltyed said:


> its that last one that should worry him most. if he gets isolated against nibali, kreutzinger and scarponi he might have trouble fending off the salvos.


This always seems great on paper. Now, is nibali for example willing to sacrifice his chances for the win if Kreuzinger attacks just to hurt Contador? This might give the win to Kreuzinger but would leave Nibali, at best, at third spot, not quite what he came for.


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## SilasCL (Jun 14, 2004)

robdamanii said:


> Yup. Contador will have to chase Scarponi, Nibali, Le Mevel, Kreuziger and any other GC threat. That's going to cost him. Simple fact.


Was he otherwise planning on letting those guys go up the road? They were GC threats last week, and they are GC threats next week. What changed exactly?


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## robdamanii (Feb 13, 2006)

SilasCL said:


> Was he otherwise planning on letting those guys go up the road? They were GC threats last week, and they are GC threats next week. What changed exactly?


That they can all focus their attacks on just him, and sort it out amongst themselves down the road.

Pink makes you a marked man. No question.


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## zosocane (Aug 29, 2004)

jd3 said:


> Did you watch Conti after he and the other rider were well in front. Conti didn't just want time, he wanted the win. Yesterday and today were all about showing he can ride away from everyone even if he didn't have steak for dinner.


And how do you know he didn't have "steak" for dinner?


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## SilasCL (Jun 14, 2004)

robdamanii said:


> That they can all focus their attacks on just him, and sort it out amongst themselves down the road.
> 
> Pink makes you a marked man. No question.


That's cool. So when Kreuziger attacks, it won't put Nibali in the red? Just Contador???

I never heard of focusing your attacks on one person. So they should all be able to get ahead of Contador, even though they were worse yesterday, and then team time trial away from him, even though they couldn't make any distance back to him yesterday. 

Since a lot of examples have been provided of guys winning an early stage in dominating fashion and going on to win the race, can you provide some examples of your claim? Any riders who have dominated early, then come up just short due to attacks by multiple riders?


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## gh1 (Jun 7, 2008)

55x11 said:


> I agree with all of those. Just using it as an example of danger in extrapolating what happened on any given stage to how the remaining stages will unfold.
> 
> Having said that, Contador was my favorite for a win before Giro started, and he solidified his position with performance today. But it's by no means a done deal. In fact, I am a bit surprised by how much aggression he already showed in the past two days.
> 
> This is reminiscent of Basso in 2006, when he won by 9 minutes totally dominating the rest of the field on EVERY single stage, by huge margins.


Well true, its a long way to the finish and some scary descents in future stages.


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## robdamanii (Feb 13, 2006)

SilasCL said:


> That's cool. So when Kreuziger attacks, it won't put Nibali in the red? Just Contador???
> 
> I never heard of focusing your attacks on one person. So they should all be able to get ahead of Contador, even though they were worse yesterday, and then team time trial away from him, even though they couldn't make any distance back to him yesterday.
> 
> Since a lot of examples have been provided of guys winning an early stage in dominating fashion and going on to win the race, can you provide some examples of your claim? Any riders who have dominated early, then come up just short due to attacks by multiple riders?


You're missing the point:

Alberto has everything to lose at this point in the game. Kreuziger goes, Nibali can sit there and say "Well, go chase him Alberto, you're the leader" and sit on. The same when Nibali goes and Garzelli is sitting in. Or when Le Mevel goes and Kreuziger is sitting in. Or when Scarponi goes and they all just sit there and go "eh, he'll be back in a minute."

That's not an enviable position to be in. Nor is having to chase Nibali down some of the descents in the 2nd half of the race to maintain your lead.


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## LostViking (Jul 18, 2008)

It never ceases to amaze me that people here complain about the lack of excitment and riders willing to put it on the line in a dramatic way - and then when someone (who happens to be El Pistolero) does it - he's a moron buning matches too early!

Conti felt good and made a gutsy move on Mt. Etna - putting the doubters on notice (also in July) - I'm lovin' it! 

That's the kind of riding that deserves to win. The other contenders need to step up!


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## SilasCL (Jun 14, 2004)

robdamanii said:


> You're missing the point:
> 
> Alberto has everything to lose at this point in the game. Kreuziger goes, Nibali can sit there and say "Well, go chase him Alberto, you're the leader" and sit on. The same when Nibali goes and Garzelli is sitting in. Or when Le Mevel goes and Kreuziger is sitting in. Or when Scarponi goes and they all just sit there and go "eh, he'll be back in a minute."
> 
> That's not an enviable position to be in. Nor is having to chase Nibali down some of the descents in the 2nd half of the race to maintain your lead.


My guess is when that happens that Contador will follow Kreuziger, then counter attack, then leave them in the dust again. His form may give out on him, but he's in the best position in the race.

Do you really think that any of the other GC contenders wouldn't switch places with him in a second?


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## Dan Gerous (Mar 28, 2005)

The descents, the only way Nibali and maybe Scarponi can gain a bit of time on Contador. Alberto will not be put in the red by anyone, he didn't burned all his matches yesterday... I think he will take even more time in the harder stages to come plus he can also gain even more time with his TT skills... Of course a lot of things can happen, crashes, bad days, sickness... And the other guys might be tempted to race for second now, especially since 2nd could mean 1st later on...


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## Swish (Jul 31, 2004)

robdamanii said:


> You're missing the point:
> 
> Alberto has everything to lose at this point in the game. Kreuziger goes, Nibali can sit there and say "Well, go chase him Alberto, you're the leader" and sit on. The same when Nibali goes and Garzelli is sitting in. Or when Le Mevel goes and Kreuziger is sitting in. Or when Scarponi goes and they all just sit there and go "eh, he'll be back in a minute."
> 
> That's not an enviable position to be in. Nor is having to chase Nibali down some of the descents in the 2nd half of the race to maintain your lead.


I can see where you're coming from but I think Contador's performance is two steps ahead of the rest. He is in control, the rest will have to make a move. The italian teams will set the pace, also in an attempt to shake off other possible podium contenders, Contador can take advantage of this. On the climbs, none can hide, and that's where Contador is at his best. Then there's his very good TT. Looking back at his former escapades, I don't foresee him bonking.


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## robdamanii (Feb 13, 2006)

SilasCL said:


> My guess is when that happens that Contador will follow Kreuziger, then counter attack, then leave them in the dust again. H*is form may give out on him*, but he's in the best position in the race.
> 
> Do you really think that any of the other GC contenders wouldn't switch places with him in a second?


I think they'd be happier to be in the top 5, but certainly less than the 1:30 back. I don't think they'd want to switch places with him for the bolded reason above. It's a long, very tough race this year. I'm sure everyone is nervous about how their form will hold up through it, without the added pressure of defending the lead.


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## Cableguy (Jun 6, 2010)

As the favorite to win the race AC is heavily marked with or without leading the race. He might as well have been wearing the pink jersey this whole time.


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## den bakker (Nov 13, 2004)

robdamanii said:


> You're missing the point:
> 
> Alberto has everything to lose at this point in the game. Kreuziger goes, Nibali can sit there and say "Well, go chase him Alberto, you're the leader" and sit on.


7 years people had wet dreams that would happen against armstrong. 
Kreuzinger goes, Nibali could sit in and wait but that would effectively mean he settles for third. I don't think Nibali gives a rats ass whether it's Kreuzinger or Contador on top of the podium.


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## bruce_wayne (Apr 30, 2010)

By lost viking: "It never ceases to amaze me that people here complain about the lack of excitment and riders willing to put it on the line in a dramatic way - and then when someone (who happens to be El Pistolero) does it - he's a moron buning matches too early!"

Conservative racing = boring for me...

Just when I was thinking this is a race where none of the GC contenders attack-just mark each other and wait for the TTs-Conti attacked on Sat. and finished 1 sec. above Scarponi on the overall. Then I figgered on Sun. Conti would mark the other GCers, Weening would fall on the Etna climb, and Conti would inherit the Pink going into the Rest Day but Conti attacked again! 

Please give some props to Scarponi! He did try to answer Conti's attack but couldn't catch on. Then as he faded back he had enough in the tank to hang on to the chasing group of GCers and still stay in the overall running.

Maybe Conti will pay for being too aggressive early in the race but the more times the Maglio Rose changes hands, the more exciting the Giro IMO.

Just like Weening before him, glad to see Conti rewarded for being aggressive.
YMMV.


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## gamara (May 20, 2002)

The race isn't over but AC showed that he's definitely the fav for overall victory. His strategy was classic text book. Mountain top stage finish before a rest day, of course he's going to attack. Its way too obvious. And not only is he riding strongly but he is riding smartly as well, just like at last year's TDF. He didn't put any of his men on the front into the wind wasting valuable resources. Instead Liquigas, Lampre & Astana all had men on the front doing work before & on the climb. Whoever has the strongest team in the final 2 weeks will definitely be on the podium.

When AC attacked on the steepest part of the climb, he did so in a 53 x 16 or 15 according to EuroSport. Nobody went with him initially but then Scarponi bridged across & stayed with him for a while until he blew up. After that he paid a huge price for his efforts. The other GC favs knew this also & that is why they waited until the final km to go before doing anything. Look at the time splits: Nibali, Kreuzinger lose almost a minute, Scarponi almost 2 minutes, Menchov, Rodriquez, Sastre over 2.5 minutes.

Its true the race is far from over but the rest of the GC contenders have to really pick up their A game when they hit Zoncolan if they want a chance at victory. Time will tell if Scarponi can recover from this ***** in his armor. If AC continues to ride the same way he did on Etna then the only way he can be stopped is if the other GC guys employ a similar strategy to the one used against Cancellara in the classics if they want to stop AC from winning. Either way its going to be exciting to watch. I for one can't wait


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## Dan Gerous (Mar 28, 2005)

Nibali and Kreuziger lost 50sec on Contador, Scarponi 1:07, far from almost 2 minutes and still very close to the other 2nd position contenders...


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## 55x11 (Apr 24, 2006)

robdamanii said:


> You're missing the point:
> 
> Alberto has everything to lose at this point in the game. Kreuziger goes, Nibali can sit there and say "Well, go chase him Alberto, you're the leader" and sit on. The same when Nibali goes and Garzelli is sitting in. Or when Le Mevel goes and Kreuziger is sitting in. Or when Scarponi goes and they all just sit there and go "eh, he'll be back in a minute."
> 
> That's not an enviable position to be in. Nor is having to chase Nibali down some of the descents in the 2nd half of the race to maintain your lead.


Since the rest are now likely to battle for second place and Contador has 1.5 minutes on the rest, why wouldn't Conti just let Kreuziger go?
He would say: "I can let Kreuziger get within 30 seconds of me, I don't care, I will still be ahead - and I can slay him any time I want with a strong kick, or at least gain time in time trial - but he is threatening your podium position, Nibali and Scarponi. Sorry - YOU have to chase, not me."


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## spade2you (May 12, 2009)

bruce_wayne said:


> By lost viking: "It never ceases to amaze me that people here complain about the lack of excitment and riders willing to put it on the line in a dramatic way - and then when someone (who happens to be El Pistolero) does it - he's a moron buning matches too early!"


I think too much of this turns into good guy vs. bad guy. When Contador or Cavendish do something, they're scum. WHen someone else pulls off the same move, they're a hero. It's a damn race.


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## gh1 (Jun 7, 2008)

robdamanii said:


> I think they'd be happier to be in the top 5, but certainly less than the 1:30 back. I don't think they'd want to switch places with him for the bolded reason above. It's a long, very tough race this year.  I'm sure everyone is nervous about how their form will hold up through it, without the added pressure of defending the lead.


Well, I dont see your point. So what, he loses pink to some nobody. This isnt the TDF, he wont kill his team. He will loan the jersey out. Hell, he has time on his rivals and he can follow their wheel and bust em up in the final 5k for the rest of the tour. His rivals arent going to give up their chances and let another team grab the glory even if it hurts Contador. It really appears that you are just looking for a reason to condemn AC. He felt good, it was uphill, he gained times on his rivals before a rest day. Try as you may to find a flaw, as their is with any plan, I am sure Riis is happy because he, unlike AC's previous Director Sportif has no secondary agenda to place someone else on the podium at the end of the day.


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## gh1 (Jun 7, 2008)

gh1 said:


> Well, I dont see your point. So what, he loses pink to some nobody. This isnt the TDF, he wont kill his team. He will loan the jersey out. Hell, he has time on his rivals and he can follow their wheel and bust em up in the final 5k for the rest of the tour. His rivals arent going to give up their chances and let another team grab the glory even if it hurts Contador. It really appears that you are just looking for a reason to condemn AC. He felt good, it was uphill, he gained times on his rivals before a rest day. Try as you may to find a flaw, as their is with any plan, I am sure Riis is happy because he, unlike AC's previous Director Sportif has no secondary agenda to place someone else on the podium at the end of the day.


as i said http://velonews.competitor.com/2011...s-saxo-might-let-pink-jersey-ride-away_173580


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## BAi9302010 (Mar 7, 2002)

LostViking said:


> It never ceases to amaze me that people here complain about the lack of excitment and riders willing to put it on the line in a dramatic way - and then when someone (who happens to be El Pistolero) does it - he's a moron buning matches too early!
> 
> Conti felt good and made a gutsy move on Mt. Etna - putting the doubters on notice (also in July) - I'm lovin' it!
> 
> That's the kind of riding that deserves to win. The other contenders need to step up!


Definitely the kind of riding that deserves to win, but there was no way anyone else could step up. Contador looked pretty comfortable the whole time, it was pretty clear that everyone else was redlining. They all saw what happened when Scarponi tried to follow and after that it was just was hang on for dear life. 

It's pretty amazing that at the absolute pinacle of the sport, one rider can dominate so thoroughly. These guys all put in the mileage and have the best coaches, support, etc. and it literally looked like a pro riding in an amateur race the way Contador was able to just crush the field like that.


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## godot (Feb 3, 2004)

robdamanii said:


> Alberto has everything to lose at this point in the game. Kreuziger goes, Nibali can sit there and say "Well, go chase him Alberto, you're the leader" and sit on. The same when Nibali goes and Garzelli is sitting in. Or when Le Mevel goes and Kreuziger is sitting in. Or when Scarponi goes and they all just sit there and go "eh, he'll be back in a minute."


So you're expecting a bunch of guys from different teams, that each have individual and team goals to band together, sacrifice and trust one another in the name of defeating one guy? 

You're in 3rd place on GC and the guy in 4th goes up the road on a climb. The race leader and the guy in 2nd sit on your wheel. Are you going to ride to protect your podium spot, or are you going to let the guy in 4th (from a different team) go up the road in the hopes that he gets enough time to move up to the top spot on the podium (knocking you off the podium)?

My guess is the team manager would be screaming in your ear to protect your podium spot.


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## godot (Feb 3, 2004)

spade2you said:


> I think too much of this turns into good guy vs. bad guy. When Contador or Cavendish do something, they're scum. WHen someone else pulls off the same move, they're a hero. It's a damn race.


Thank you


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## spade2you (May 12, 2009)

gh1 said:


> Well, I dont see your point. So what, he loses pink to some nobody. This isnt the TDF, he wont kill his team. He will loan the jersey out. Hell, he has time on his rivals and he can follow their wheel and bust em up in the final 5k for the rest of the tour. His rivals arent going to give up their chances and let another team grab the glory even if it hurts Contador. It really appears that you are just looking for a reason to condemn AC. He felt good, it was uphill, he gained times on his rivals before a rest day. Try as you may to find a flaw, as their is with any plan, I am sure Riis is happy because he, unlike AC's previous Director Sportif has no secondary agenda to place someone else on the podium at the end of the day.


In addition, other riders and teams placed highly on the GC aren't going to _let_ other riders simply get away with the jersey or their particular podium place. Sure, they're threatening Contador and Saxo Bank, but the other teams of GC threads also have to do work.


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## BAi9302010 (Mar 7, 2002)

I don't think anyone views a particular rider as scum. Cavendish just rubs some people the wrong way because he can be arrogant. Contador on the other hand has been caught up in more than his fair share of scandals, and when a rider awaiting a potential suspension goes out and rocks the peloton, it's probably going to leave a bad taste in the mouths of some people.


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## godot (Feb 3, 2004)

BAi9302010 said:


> Cavendish just rubs some people the wrong way because he can be arrogant. Contador on the other hand has been caught up in more than his fair share of scandals, and when a rider awaiting a potential suspension goes out and rocks the peloton, it's probably going to leave a bad taste in the mouths of some people.


I agree with the statement that AC's recent performance in light of doping allegations leaves a bad taste.

Why is it that some are known for and celebrated for attacking on the first mtn stage (especially before a rest day) and putting time into their opponents while others are castigated for doing the same thing, even if they're both pretty equal when it comes to arrogance?


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## Cinelli 82220 (Dec 2, 2010)

godot said:


> So you're expecting a bunch of guys from different teams, that each have individual and team goals to band together, sacrifice and trust one another in the name of defeating one guy?


That's exactly what happened to Robert Millar in the Vuelta. 
Co-operation between teams is commonplace. You'll often see sprinter's teams working together to keep the pace very high in the Tour, to prevent/catch breakaways and make sure the sprinters get there first.


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## godot (Feb 3, 2004)

Cinelli 82220 said:


> Co-operation between teams is commonplace. You'll often see sprinter's teams working together to keep the pace very high in the Tour, to prevent/catch breakaways and make sure the sprinters get there first.


Sprinting is very different than GC.


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## doggatas (Apr 9, 2010)

matchmaker said:


> Yep, the hammer. I am no Contador fan, but his style of riding is entertaining.
> 
> We will have to see though if this was a good strategical move. It all depends on how hard the Italian teams are going to play it. If they have the courage to let a group take a huge lead and not help Conti to get back, then his team will have to sweat.
> 
> Also, you can never exclude a bad day for Contador. But yes, by all means he is the big favorite.


For some reason I was reading your post in my head using Sean Kelly's voice from Eurosport UK


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## BAi9302010 (Mar 7, 2002)

All I can say is that, whether true or not, we've been led to believe that pro cycling is in a cleaner state. Big name riders weren't getting popped with nearly the regularity that they have during the last 5 or so years. Most of the suspicion surrounding Armstrong didn't come until the last year or two that he was riding and especially during his comeback. When Armstrong was making his big attacks circa 99-03 (or so) he had a pretty clean record, aside from the occasional accusation in the media and the cortisone debacle in 99 which pretty much got swept under the carpet because they "found" a prescription. The whole cancer thing never hurt his cause either. 

With all of the talent that Contador has, he certainly hasn't done a very good job surrounding himself with the right people. A lot of it probably has to do with the personality difference between himself and Armstrong. As much of an a-hole as Armstrong appeared to be, it's pretty obvious that staff and other riders wanted to be around him and respected him. Noting the number of team changes and fallouts that Contador has been through in his relatively short career, it doesn't seem like many people want to stick around him for much more than a season or two at a time.


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## off (Sep 13, 2008)

BAi9302010 said:


> Contador on the other hand has been caught up in more than his fair share of scandals, and when a rider awaiting a potential suspension goes out and rocks the peloton, it's probably going to leave a bad taste in the mouths of some people.


He knows what's coming, just like Valverde going out to win Tour of Romandie before his suspension. In any case, it makes for great racing, and Nibali, Kreuziger and Scarponi will either have to do something special or form an unholy alliance.


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## uzziefly (Jul 15, 2006)

Seriously?? So Lance Armstrong takes time early on, oooh brilliant move. Contador does the same - what a lame move etc.

He attacked coz he had the legs. The others couldn't follow. Done. He pulled time on them.

Now he has to 'defend' his lead. Or does he? He just needs to follow the other GC guys.

Nibali, Scarponi etc are all contenders before and are still. If anyone of them goes, it's not just Alberto Contador who has to chase because while he has to, the others still need to follow and respond too for their OWN hopes mind you. They're not just all racing to make sure Contador doesn't win. They're racing so only they will win anyway.

And when they respond? Contador just has to follow. He doesn't need to chase them. He can.. But he doesn't need to. He can allow some gap to form, follow, and then go on his own anyway.

It's amazing how so many people seem to think his form will falter and he's in a bad position. Clearly, if anything, he's in a better position than the others given the fact they can't follow him when he went. 

Why so much hate anyway? He rode very well on Stage 9 and deserves credit, like his other racers and GC contenders gave him. 

No one would bash Nibali, Scarponi etc for doing the same. 

So if the Patriots were 17-0 (before they lost), it's "oh man wtf? They suck. I hope they lose" just coz they were that good but lost the final game?

Credit where it's due. It's about today's stage. He rode well. He's now got a rest day to recover. Simple. 

If he cracks, too bad for him but he sure as heck will still fight on. If he doesn't crack, all the better. He's a good rider.


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## uzziefly (Jul 15, 2006)

AJL said:


> +1. Contador hasn't won 5 Grand Tours by being a total idiot.


Wait, you mean he needs to be smart or better than other riders 5 whole times just to win the GC in those races? Didn't know. :wink:

:thumbsup: 


/Although he did lose Paris-Nice by forgetting to eat properly! Maybe he didn't like the sandwich he had. Haha.


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## LostViking (Jul 18, 2008)

@Uzzi - well said. +1


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## Ridin'Sorra (Sep 7, 2004)

From my totally uneducated point of view, while I wouldn't call Conti's strategy brilliant, I can see why he did it, especially after Scarponi couldn't get him.

Nibali got a good workout also when he realized nobody was bringing Contador back.

He also smoked a climbing specialist like Rujano, who had nothing to lose if he was toast after taking a stage win like these.

Also, it sounds like a good plan to be ahead of your direct competitors by over 1min BEFORE getting into the hardest part of the race, particularly if you're not precisely lame when it comes to climbing, like Contador, and can stay at the wheel of the contenders.

Someone mentioned that this stage suits him more as it's similar to the TdF stages... well, the TdF guys watching the race may pretty well be thinking seriously what will be the form of Contador for the TdF if he's allowed to race. Because if he'll be this strong... 

Not the brightest move, maybe. But he sure could have done worst and he has even more chances to win the race.


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## Ridin'Sorra (Sep 7, 2004)

From my totally uneducated point of view, while I wouldn't call Conti's strategy brilliant, I can see why he did it, especially after Scarponi couldn't get him.

Nibali got a good workout also when he realized nobody was bringing Contador back.

He also smoked a climbing specialist like Rujano, who had nothing to lose if he was toast after taking a stage win like these.

Also, it sounds like a good plan to be ahead of your direct competitors by over 1min BEFORE getting into the hardest part of the race, particularly if you're not precisely lame when it comes to climbing, like Contador, and can stay at the wheel of the contenders.

Someone mentioned that this stage suits him more as it's similar to the TdF stages... well, the TdF guys watching the race may pretty well be thinking seriously what will be the form of Contador for the TdF if he's allowed to race. Because if he'll be this strong... 

Not the brightest move, maybe. But he sure could have done worst and he has even more chances to win the race.


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## pretender (Sep 18, 2007)

Ridin'Sorra said:


> Not the brightest move, maybe.


*audible sigh*
You just got through a long list of reasons why his attack put him in a very good position in the race, but then for some reason felt obliged to qualify it.

Here's something to consider: If, one week into a grand tour, people are writing articles saying that you aren't 100% guaranteed to win the thing, that is a sign that _you're doing pretty effing well._
http://velonews.competitor.com/2011...r-is-a-long-way-from-winning-this-giro_173900 

And don't even get into any of that nonsense about the alleged "burden" of the maglia rosa or "having to control the race."


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## godot (Feb 3, 2004)

Who was that on stage 11 pulling the break back? Astana? Lampre?

LeMevel was up the road and was virtual leader on the road for a while. Why weren't the other GC teams (the one's that were all going to work together to beat AC) either blocking the peloton to allow LeMevel's lead to grow, or forcing Saxo to do the work to pin him back?

So much for Saxo doing all the work and AC having to mark everyone.

Friday should be fun.


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## LostViking (Jul 18, 2008)

*Who is burning up now?*



 godot said:


> So much for Saxo doing all the work and AC having to mark everyone.


Saxo and Conti are not going to burn themselves up to defend the jersey at this point -
Indeed after Stage 11 Conti said "we won't pull a metre to keep it."
they will sit in and let the desperation of the other teams do its work.

The proverbial ball is now firmly in the court of the other GC hopefuls and thier teams.

Conti is probably very confident now that he will be able to put any realistic challenger in his place should he need to - a la Mt. Etna.:thumbsup:


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