# Pegoretti Responsorium Ciavete worth a try?



## apark (Mar 12, 2007)

Any arguments for or against would be appreciated.


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## terry b (Jan 29, 2004)

apark said:


> Any arguments for or against would be appreciated.


It's the finest bicycle frame ever made, and I am 100% confident that you will get dozens of posts confirming that fact.


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## Guest (Jan 4, 2010)

Mmmm, wouldn't I love to have that frame.


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## apark (Mar 12, 2007)

terry b said:


> It's the finest bicycle frame ever made, and I am 100% confident that you will get dozens of posts confirming that fact.


Any thoughts on what makes it so nice, besides the marketing/exclusivity? Thanks in advance.


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## terry b (Jan 29, 2004)

apark said:


> Any thoughts on what makes it so nice, besides the marketing/exclusivity? Thanks in advance.


My answer was tongue in cheek so I'm going to let the owners provide you with more educated assessments to these questions. My opinion is that the answer lies in the psychology of it.


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## barry1021 (Nov 27, 2005)

apark said:


> Any thoughts on what makes it so nice, besides the marketing/exclusivity? Thanks in advance.


A little sarcasm dripped out of Terry B. But that's because he has 397 custom bikes and they all feel exactly the same to him..... 

b21


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## terry b (Jan 29, 2004)

barry1021 said:


> A little sarcasm dripped out of Terry B. But that's because he has 397 custom bikes and they all feel exactly the same to him.....
> 
> b21


Me? Sarcastic? My name has never appeared in the same sentence, or even paragraph, as the word "sarcastic."


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## barry1021 (Nov 27, 2005)

terry b said:


> Me? Sarcastic? My name has never appeared in the same sentence, or even paragraph, as the word "sarcastic."


Oh sorry, I had you confused with Zmudshark. Ixnay on the sarcasm, it's a dry wit, very dry, powder coat actually.....

b21


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## terry b (Jan 29, 2004)

barry1021 said:


> Oh sorry, I had you confused with Zmudshark. Ixnay on the sarcasm, it's a dry wit, very dry, powder coat actually.....
> 
> b21


Yea, he and that Canuck are the worst in my experience.


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## SantaCruz (Mar 22, 2002)

apark said:


> Any arguments for or against would be appreciated.


The main argument against would likely be the $5000 frameset price through Gita. If that's not an issue for you, order it up and report back the results.


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## Lifelover (Jul 8, 2004)

If I understand correctly and "Ciavete" loosely translate to "Kindergarden Graffiti" than that is a good reason to pass on that portion of the option.


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## SystemShock (Jun 14, 2008)

terry b said:


> Me? Sarcastic? My name has never appeared in the same sentence, or even paragraph, as the word "sarcastic."


Terry B... sarcastic.

Now it has. 
.


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## Rocket-Sauce (Nov 9, 2005)

Dario is certainly one of the greats, but that Ciavetè paint scheme looks like the rag he used to clean his brushes.


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## terry b (Jan 29, 2004)

SystemShock said:


> Terry B... sarcastic.
> 
> Now it has.
> .


My streak is broken.


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## cdhbrad (Feb 18, 2003)

Either that or using up little bits of paint he has left over from other paint schemes and for that he charges a $500 premium?? His site says that he hand paints them...no spray, so you wonder how smooth he really gets them. Personally, I don't care for them, but I wouldn't drop 5K on anyone's frame.


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## zmudshark (Jan 28, 2007)

terry b said:


> Yea, he and that Canuck are the worst in my experience.


Thanks, Dave.


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## ultratoad (Jan 22, 2004)

*Pegoretti Responsorium Ciavate*

I've had my Responsorium with Campy Record 10 for about one year. I have or have had serious bicycles made from all of the popular materials. This bike is my favorite beyond question. It has exceptional road manners and it is rolling art. My frame was fully sprayed in gray, hand painted in vivid colors and finally clear coated. It is truely one of a kind and it takes about 20 minutes to read everything that Dario wrote on it. The first time I saw one was at a NAHBS in San Jose years ago and I thought Dario was crazy. The rest is history-- I just had to have one. It is an art thing....


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## NealH (May 2, 2004)

Pegoretti bikes are likely overhyped but, without a doubt Dario is a very talented builder. If you have the chance to get one, I would take advantage of it and then ride the hell out of it. That's what he makes them for.


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## ultimobici (Jul 16, 2005)

Rocket-Sauce said:


> Dario is certainly one of the greats, but that Ciavetè paint scheme looks like the rag he used to clean his brushes.


What do you make of this then?


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## sir duke (Mar 24, 2006)

> My streak is broken.



View attachment 187555


Fixed it for ya...


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## Bob Ross (Apr 18, 2006)

Is there any difference between the Responsorium Ciavete and the non-Ciavate Responsoriums _besides_ the paint job?

I actually like the Ciavete paint schemes I've seen...but I'd be just as happy with a solid white Responsorium. Or a completely nude clear-coated Responsorium.

There is definitely something covetable about a stainless Peg imho.


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## Troy16 (Jan 2, 2003)

Perhaps the better question is why the question. Only you can assess if its good value. I guess if you consider $5k for a stock overhyped tiged steel frame "worth a try", you should go for it. Personally I think Dario builds very run of the mill tigged frames with fancy often fugly paint schemes, huge prices and little else. I would buy a $3300 Dave Kirk steel frame/fork decades before I'd pay $3300 plus for a tiged Marcelo with a stock Edge fork. Far more craftsmanship in the Kirk versus the Marcelo.

Carl Strong does SS full custom for $2800, that's $2800 plus fork versus $5k. And I'd bet as much money as you'd like to lose that if you compared the two builders SS creations side by side you find that Strong has far superior aesthetic, tighter welds, not that that effects how the bike rides but it displays the relative skill or lack thereof of the two welders.

$5k for a SS Peg, almost as funny as the $3300 he charges for his tiged Marcelo, LMFAO.

Anyone seen PT Barnum lately?


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## OnTheRivet (Sep 3, 2004)

ultimobici said:


> What do you make of this then?



Jackson Pollack fooling the art world?


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## PNW Rider (Sep 9, 2002)

The exchange rate is working against you. $ 1USD = $.69 Euro. That is likely adding to the price and making Dario's work seem a bit inflated.


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## ultimobici (Jul 16, 2005)

Troy16 said:


> Perhaps the better question is why the question. Only you can assess if its good value. I guess if you consider $5k for a stock overhyped tiged steel frame "worth a try", you should go for it. Personally I think Dario builds very run of the mill tigged frames with fancy often fugly paint schemes, huge prices and little else. I would buy a $3300 Dave Kirk steel frame/fork decades before I'd pay $3300 plus for a tiged Marcelo with a stock Edge fork. Far more craftsmanship in the Kirk versus the Marcelo.
> 
> Carl Strong does SS full custom for $2800, that's $2800 plus fork versus $5k. And I'd bet as much money as you'd like to lose that if you compared the two builders SS creations side by side you find that Strong has far superior aesthetic, tighter welds, not that that effects how the bike rides but it displays the relative skill or lack thereof of the two welders.
> 
> ...


I take it you've never actually had a Marcelo in front of you, let alone ridden one?

Mine was built in 2001 in EOM16.5 tubing. The same tubing that many Italian builders use to this day. Dario was the developer of this tubeset. His frames can be finished any way you like, so the mad paint jobs aren't mandatory.

What you get under the paint is a frame built by the guy who pioneered TIG welding in the early 90's. The same guy Pinarello had build Riis, Ullrich & Indurain's frames, not to mention a few other stars of the peleton. His welds are clean and even. 

Mine is being resprayed for a third time as I'm bored of the last finish. It's survived Ryanair's attempts to destroy it, numerous stacks, yet still rides smooth as silk.

BTW, it cost £1400 ($2000 in 2001) which at today's exchange rate is $2300.

Having said that if I was to buy a frame in steel now it would have to be this


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## Siado (Oct 21, 2008)

I have or have had 3 other frames varying from aluminum, carbon, and titanium.

My Respo is hands down the smoothest, most predictable frame of them all.

I loved my Cervelo SLC-SL and rode the Seattle to Portland on it in 2008, so I wouldn't consider it overly stiff. The bike carved, but was a little twitchy. The Respo corners as well to me but is much, much more predictable in doing so.

My Bianchi s9 Matta Ti was smooth, but didn't corner as quickly as I would have liked. The Respo is far smoother and corners much better.

My BMC Streetfire has great geometry, but is harsh and serves mainly for crits.

All in all, you either like the paint of the one you look at or you don't. Each one is unique and I never get tired of looking at mine. After deploying for 6 months and coming home, my wife things I'm nuts because I will just stop and stare at it when I walk by.

Dario is a unique builder these days and I'm not really into art in general, but his welding skills are remarkable and I like the fact that I will never see another frame identical to mine. Ever.

It's more than just a frame and some people get it, some don't. There are plenty of framesets available out there for that price range and huge numbers of them sold to people who can't ride them to their limit and never will be able to. I was one of them with my SLC-SL. Great frame, but "obsolete" two years later.

I'm glad not everyone like them, Dario has had a hard time in the past keeping up with production with his health, but is doing better now I understand.

Just my .02. Not for everyone, never thought it would be for me, but I love it.

Plenty posted on the Serotta forums as well.

Serotta Custom Frames forum

Good luck with your choice.


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## terry b (Jan 29, 2004)

Siado said:


> It's more than just a frame and some people get it, some don't. .


How is a bike frame more than just a bike frame?


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## Guest (Jan 23, 2010)

ultimobici said:


> Having said that if I was to buy a frame in steel now it would have to be this


I looked at that one.

Beautiful.


Those tree trunk chain stays make the Big Leg Emma's look almost tiny.


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## Don Duende (Sep 13, 2007)

ultimobici said:


> I take it you've never actually had a Marcelo in front of you, let alone ridden one?
> 
> Mine was built in 2001 in EOM16.5 tubing. The same tubing that many Italian builders use to this day. Dario was the developer of this tubeset. His frames can be finished any way you like, so the mad paint jobs aren't mandatory.
> 
> ...


Can you elaborate further on these frames. I was perusing the Zullo website last week and was impressed with the quality and variety of the frames and paint. How about the ride and prices?


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## ultimobici (Jul 16, 2005)

Don Duende said:


> Can you elaborate further on these frames. I was perusing the Zullo website last week and was impressed with the quality and variety of the frames and paint. How about the ride and prices?


Zullo is the guy who supplied TVM in the 90's with frames. His website is http://www.zullo-bike.com/ 
The last price I saw in Ciclismo magazine in Italy was €1500 for fram & forks. Built with Extralite cranks & wheels it came in at 6.7kg!! Test here


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## Guest (Jan 23, 2010)

ultimobici said:


> Zullo is the guy who supplied TVM in the 90's with frames. His website is http://www.zullo-bike.com/
> The last price I saw in Ciclismo magazine in Italy was €1500 for fram & forks. Built with Extralite cranks & wheels it came in at 6.7kg!! Test here


I was quoted $4500 for the Max Silencio last year. It will be more now as the exchange rate is moving the wrong way.


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## ultimobici (Jul 16, 2005)

Windermere said:


> I looked at that one.
> 
> Beautiful.
> 
> ...


24mm as opposed to 22mm on the Marcelo, but 45mm DT over a 38mm!!


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## Guest (Jan 23, 2010)

ultimobici said:


> 24mm as opposed to 22mm on the Marcelo, but 45mm DT over a 38mm!!


That would be a pretty solid riding bike. Wow.


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## Len J (Jan 28, 2004)

Here is what you can be sure of when you ask a question about about a pegoretti.....

- Those that think it's all marketing hype will chime in to make you feel like an idiot for spending that kind of money on a Peg

- Those that spent the money and will defend their purchase with every ounce of their being

Here is what you can count on if you buy:

1.) You will get a well made, perfectly tracking frame that works extremely well for it's intended purpose.

2.) You will get it made of SS tube-set

3.) You will get it built by one of the remaining masters still hand making his own frames.

4.) It will have a pretty outlandish & one of a kind hand painted finish

5.) You won't see many of them when you ride.

You will pay a small premium for #1
You will pay a premium for #2
You will pay a premium for #3
You will pay a premium for #4
You will pay a premium for #5
You also will be buying when exchange rates are not working in your favor.

Only you can determine if these premiums are worth it for you.

Len


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## Guest (Jan 23, 2010)

Only one model of Pegoretti is made from Stainless steel. The others are made from made from either Aluminium or Steel; lugged or tigged.

Not all paint finishes in Pegoretti's are either wild or outlandish, and you can order them in whatever paint finish you want.

Subtle or wild.


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## campyguy (Aug 30, 2006)

Just got my Resposorium frame! Will post photos after Super Record 11 build.


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