# Lower or increase tire pressure for gravel roads?



## mm9

Confused - I hear conflicting suggestions on this topic. Trying to prevent flats. I'm running 23c tires right now. I know not the best, but typically gravel only makes up a small portion of my routes.


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## Jay Strongbow

If they are flat I'd go higher. If 170 PSI maybe try lower.

Um, without knowing where they are now and you're weight it's impossible to even guess at lower or higher.


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## brucew

Wider.


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## Pirx

How about posting this in the Wheels and Tires section?


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## jfaas

Try to float over the gravel, or get wider tires.


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## Mike T.

As a rider who has done thousands of miles on gravel roads on road bike, cyclocross bike and MTB I can tell you that tire volume and correct pressure is your friend. I can't imagine a worse tire than a 23mm clincher, unless it's a 20mm clincher.

And there is so much difference between gravel roads too, even the same road at different times of the year - from some that are packed dirt where you can ride at 25mph on 23mm tires to roads that are unrideable with 2.1" MTB tires at 30psi.

How are your flats being caused? If it's pinch flats then you need more pressure. If it's tire carcass penetration then you need better flat-proof tire construction.


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## cxwrench

Pirx said:


> How about posting this in the Wheels and Tires section?


^This^ C'mon OP...make the effort.


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## Winn

cxwrench said:


> ^This^ C'mon OP...make the effort.


Be reasonabke the dude can't tell us his how much he weighs his current tire pressure what he's tried already what type of tire where in the world he is or anything. Expecting effort is unreasonable.


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## mm9

I should have put this in the wheels and tires section. I forgot that one was there. My deepest apologies. I hope that my post here didn't inconvenience you too much!  If you still wish to offer me some advice on this subject, thank you.

Regarding what I weigh, what I currently run in terms of air pressure etc, Let's keep this simple and assume my tire pressure is optimized based on manufacturers recommendation for a balance between comfort and speed on road rides. Generally 100-105 psi. 120 max on the tires. I've only had one flat on a gravel road in the last year. Not sure what kind of flat, but it must have been a pinch because there were no nails etc or rips in the tire.

So - assuming I have a good pressure for riding on the roads, do you generally go up or down in pressure for gravel?


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## Marc

brucew said:


> Wider.


This.

Did a century that had a brief 1/2 mile chipped-limestone section. I didn't find it very squirrely at all (except for where there was lots of excess loose stone). My riding mates were another story. Difference? I was on 32mm IRL measured tires at 85PSI, while they were on 23mm IRL measured at 90-110PSI.


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## DaveWC

mm9 said:


> So - assuming I have a good pressure for riding on the roads, do you generally go up or down in pressure for gravel?


I would use equally good pressure for gravel.


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## mm9

DaveWC said:


> I would use equally good pressure for gravel.


Very witty Dave.


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## SwiftSolo

Yep, I would find out what the manufacturer of this 23mm tire recommends for gravel! While he's at it, maybe he could find out what tire pressure they recommend for road racing on 2.5x26 knobbies on a mtb?


DaveWC said:


> I would use equally good pressure for gravel.


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## J.R.

In general...I think lower pressure is called for on gravel. However, I have no experience with 23mm on gravel. I can't think of any good reason to use a 23mm on any surface.


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## den bakker

J.R. said:


> In general...I think lower pressure is called for on gravel. However, I have no experience with 23mm on gravel. I can't think of any good reason to use a 23mm on any surface.


except if it's all that fits in the frame.


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## Jay Strongbow

Marc said:


> This.
> 
> Did a *century that had a brief 1/2 mile chipped-limestone *section. I didn't find it very squirrely at all (except for where there was lots of excess loose stone). My riding mates were another story. Difference? I was on 32mm IRL measured tires at 85PSI, while they were on 23mm IRL measured at 90-110PSI.


That's great you had an advantage for .5% of the ride but personally I'd cater to the other 99.5% when making a tire choice. 

By the way, If you're going use tires that big you may as well take advantage of it and drop the air pressure well below 85.


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## Jay Strongbow

J.R. said:


> In general...I think lower pressure is called for on gravel. However, I have no experience with 23mm on gravel. I can't think of any good reason to use a 23mm on any surface.


I don't disagree there's no good reason to use them.....but if you're light enough to be able to use them at a low PSI there's no good reason not to either. Especially in the front.


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## den bakker

mm9 said:


> I've only had one flat on a gravel road in the last year. Not sure what kind of flat, but it must have been a pinch because there were no nails etc or rips in the tire.


it can easily be a flat by something that did not get stuck in the tire. 
The only way to be sure it's a pinch flat is if it's a standard snakebite. not the other way around.


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## Marc

Jay Strongbow said:


> That's great you had an advantage for .5% of the ride but personally I'd cater to the other 99.5% when making a tire choice.
> 
> By the way, If you're going use tires that big you may as well take advantage of it and drop the air pressure well below 85.


Theyre may day to day commuting road riding tires. And 80-85 is as low as I go given how shitty the roads are here. Going lower I've damaged rims from bottoming out on potholes and speed bumps in the dark.


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## Jay Strongbow

Marc said:


> Theyre may day to day commuting road riding tires. And 80-85 is as low as I go given how shitty the roads are here. Going lower I've damaged rims from bottoming out on potholes and speed bumps in the dark.


Makes sense. Especially in the dark where you're prone to not reacting in time to use you knees as shock absorbers on a sharp one. 
As an aside I want to Central NY last week where the roads are great unlike home in New England and man is it nice to not need to ride around or though pot holes and cracks.


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## Fredrico

jfaas said:


> Try to float over the gravel, or get wider tires.


Or better yet, don't go on the gravel. Use the adjacent paved roadway. Why should only cars have the luxury of smooth macadam? Those 23C tires need it most!


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## velodog

Lower pressure allows the tire to deflect\conform to the shape of the object that could puncture a tire pumped up to higher pressures. As far as PSI, I think you're pumping your tires too high. Unless you weigh over 200lbs.

I've been riding 650bx42 and, Man I don't want to ride my other bikes. But when I do ride either 23's or 25's I don't pump them over 90lbs, 80/85 when the roads are wet, and I weigh in at 185lbs. I watch the road and ride light when necessary and haven't had a pinch flat at those pressures. Knock wood.


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## velodog

Fredrico said:


> Or better yet, don't go on the gravel. Use the adjacent paved roadway. Why should only cars have the luxury of smooth macadam? Those 23C tires need it most!


700c x 23_mm_


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## LuckyB

J.R. said:


> In general...I think lower pressure is called for on gravel. However, I have no experience with 23mm on gravel. I can't think of any good reason to use a 23mm on any surface.


They work fine on my bike on the roads in Central Indiana. Cement, asphalt, chip and seal, crushed limestone paths........170lbs with 120 psi.


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## Fredrico

velodog said:


> Lower pressure allows the tire to deflect\conform to the shape of the object that could puncture a tire pumped up to higher pressures. As far as PSI, I think you're pumping your tires too high. Unless you weigh over 200lbs.
> 
> I've been riding 650bx42 and, Man I don't want to ride my other bikes. But when I do ride either 23's or 25's I don't pump them over 90lbs, 80/85 when the roads are wet, and I weigh in at 185lbs. I watch the road and ride light when necessary and haven't had a pinch flat at those pressures. Knock wood.


I used to ride aat 150-155 weight and still got pinch flats on 700 x 23C tires aired up to 95 psi. Sooner or later, an uneven pavement seam or a big pebble would do the job. Switched to 25C and never looked back. Don't have much trouble keeping up on 28C tires, either, like on the commute bike. It's fun to go side by side on a bike with 28C tires and fenders next to hot shots on their carbon wonders, hah! :yesnod:

Also, how about tread? Would smooth 35C tires handle gravel ok? If so, there wouldn't be much of a compromise riding on pavement. Slick tires are fast!


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## luwabra

I use 23mm wide rims on my gravel bikes and run lower pressure than I do on the hard surface roads. Ive used everything from 25mm gatorskins, 25mm kenda karvs which have a fairly agressive tread for gravel and roll very well on asphalt as well (they come in 28mm as well) I normally run my cx bike w/ 35 or sometimes 42's with 50psi. adj your psi you should have a "squatty" tire but I never bottom out on gravel roads. gravel is my favorite surface to ride btw it allows me to use my go anywhere bike and tires! This is coming from a race oriented roadie.


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## robt57

LuckyB said:


> They work fine on my bike on the roads in Central Indiana. Cement, asphalt, chip and seal, crushed limestone paths........170lbs with 120 psi.



For example and comparisons sake. I am 210-15lb and never run more than 95 in a rear 23C tire, usually 5-8 less front. I have never pinch flatted in my life on any bike/tire.

I run 27mm Pave Vittoria minimum on rides with less than smooth surface for larger percents of the time. I just got done mounting 40C TSC tubeless Nanos on Pacenti 25SL rimmed wheels for a gravel ride tomorrow. I will be running 45/55 max and expect to bleed off more once started. Of course that kind of pressure in a 23C is asking for failure, 65 might be IMO at my weight with a tubed tire. Running 120lb in anything except a tubular on a wood track is beyond my comprehension of benefit as to doing so.

I rode a 23C tubeless front tire home last week after picking up a piece of plastic with two T-50 staples which all 4 points stapled that plastic to my front tire. Pulled the crap off and spun the holes to the bottom so the sealant could do it's job. If I was more than the 4 miles from home I would have added air as it lost quite a bit sealing. Got home and found 45lb in the 23C tire. Was surprised it was that low and remained as stable as it did. Probably due to the stiffer tubeless sidewall. 

120 lbs, indeed.


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## cxwrench

LuckyB said:


> They work fine on my bike on the roads in Central Indiana. Cement, asphalt, chip and seal, crushed limestone paths........170lbs with 120 psi.


Jesus...120psi? Haven't you been paying attention to what's been posted on this forum at all? Short story: you should be riding bigger tires at lower pressure. A LOT lower. I'm the same weight as you and run 28mm tires at 60/70 psi give or take. Beautiful ride, not slow, awesome traction. 


velodog said:


> 700c x 23_mm_


This. The 'C' is a way of describing the diameter of the rim, and also the tire. We can pretty much take for granted that 99.999% of the posts here are about 700'C' wheels/tires, the second number describes the wide of the tire only, so it should be 23mm, not C. 



Fredrico said:


> Or better yet, don't go on the gravel. Use the adjacent paved roadway. Why should only cars have the luxury of smooth macadam? Those 23C tires need it most!


See above. 


Fredrico said:


> I used to ride aat 150-155 weight and still got pinch flats on 700 x 23C tires aired up to 95 psi. Sooner or later, an uneven pavement seam or a big pebble would do the job. Switched to 25C and never looked back. Don't have much trouble keeping up on 28C tires, either, like on the commute bike. It's fun to go side by side on a bike with 28C tires and fenders next to hot shots on their carbon wonders, hah! :yesnod:
> 
> Also, how about tread? Would smooth 35C tires handle gravel ok? If so, there wouldn't be much of a compromise riding on pavement. Slick tires are fast!


See above again. And the 'tread' on 35*mm* pavement tires wouldn't really have any affect at all on how they'd handle gravel. If they had enough tread that they'd be really good on gravel, they'd conversely suck big time on pavement...like a CX tire.


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## robt57

Fredrico said:


> I used to ride aat 150-155 weight and still got pinch flats on 700 x 23C tires aired up to 95 psi.


On 15C-622 rims? Same size tire on a 19C-622 IME would be a lot less prone even at lower pressures to pinch flats.

I must be the luckiest cyclist in the world to have never pinched flatted. Even at 215 lb and lean toward lower pressure overall.


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## Fredrico

cxwrench said:


> Jesus...120psi? Haven't you been paying attention to what's been posted on this forum at all? Short story: you should be riding bigger tires at lower pressure. A LOT lower. I'm the same weight as you and run 28mm tires at 60/70 psi give or take. Beautiful ride, not slow, awesome traction.
> 
> This. The 'C' is a way of describing the diameter of the rim, and also the tire. We can pretty much take for granted that 99.999% of the posts here are about 700'C' wheels/tires, the second number describes the wide of the tire only, so it should be 23mm, not C.
> 
> 
> See above.
> 
> 
> See above again. And the 'tread' on 35*mm* pavement tires wouldn't really have any affect at all on how they'd handle gravel. If they had enough tread that they'd be really good on gravel, they'd conversely suck big time on pavement...like a CX tire.


Always thought a large 28-35m tire with a smooth tread aired up stiff enough not to squish out at the bottom when loaded, would have the same rolling resistance as a 25mm tire. Some of the better 28-35mm tires are quite light, not a significant rolling weight handicap to skinnier tires aired up to higher pressures. I rode a friend's Fuji cyclocross bike once, 35mm "racing" tires, lots of rubber on tarmac, a moderately aggressive negative tread to handle dirt. I was amazed how fast that ride was! And sweet riding. They felt a lot like the Conti tubulars I used to ride back in the day. :yesnod:


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## Fredrico

robt57 said:


> On 15C-622 rims? Same size tire on a 19C-622 IME would be a lot less prone even at lower pressures to pinch flats.
> 
> I must be the luckiest cyclist in the world to have never pinched flatted. Even at 215 lb and lean toward lower pressure overall.


Yes, you're a lucky guy! :yesnod: But then again, if you watch where you're going, stay off roads littered with debris, and avoid hitting manhole covers when drafting cars, you will never join the wounded warriors of pinch flats. :ihih:

I was riding 23mm tires on 19mm rims I believe. They were box section, ideal for 25 and 28C tires.


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## robt57

Fredrico said:


> Yes, you're a lucky guy! :yesnod: But then again, if you watch where you're going


That could be my blessing. An old Motocross fiend and motorcyclist that scrutinizes his line always. I don't often get caught out, more luck?


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## Blue CheeseHead

To answer the OP's general question, one should run lower pressure on gravel surfaces in order to maximize traction and to better conform to the irregularities. 

Now if running the lower pressure causes you to flat, that is a different issue that likely could be solved by running a larger tire or going tubeless.


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## mm9

Blue CheeseHead said:


> To answer the OP's general question, one should run lower pressure on gravel surfaces in order to maximize traction and to better conform to the irregularities.


Thank you for your answer. A few others were trying to overcomplicate the issue or just acting like d%&kheads, which seems to be the norm for a few folks here. Thanks to all who tried to actually be helpful.

Currently in the mountains with 23 mm tires. Many of the routes include some gravel roads. Today - 40 miles with about 8 miles of gravel roads. Some were kind of rough. Lowered the pressure on my Conti, GP 4000 S II's from typical 100 - 110 psi (I'm 187 lbs), to 90 psi today. Did well on the rough gravel - thanks.


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## cxwrench

mm9 said:


> Thank you for your answer. *A few others were trying to overcomplicate the issue or just acting like d%&kheads, which seems to be the norm for a few folks here. *Thanks to all who tried to actually be helpful.
> 
> Currently in the mountains with 23 mm tires. Many of the routes include some gravel roads. Today - 40 miles with about 8 miles of gravel roads. Some were kind of rough. Lowered the pressure on my Conti, GP 4000 S II's from typical 100 - 110 psi (I'm 187 lbs), to 90 psi today. Did well on the rough gravel - thanks.


Can't help but think you're talking about me. You have to help me/us out if you want good advice. I can be abrasive for sure, but if you post in the correct part of the forum and provide enough information for me to actually help, things go a lot differently.


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## DaveWC

cxwrench said:


> Can't help but think you're talking about me. You have to help me/us out if you want good advice. I can be abrasive for sure, but if you post in the correct part of the forum and provide enough information for me to actually help, things go a lot differently.


I'm guessing you need to cater your advice to the person asking the question. In this case the OP only wanted to know, in general, without knowing his weight, his current PSI, his issues with flatting or with gravel... should he raise or lower his tire pressure for gravel. Clearly he doesn't want good or specific advice, nor is he able to do even the the minimum in terms of using google to find answers. All he wanted was a one word answer... lower/increase. If anything, this thread was more of a "Hey, I cycle on gravel, check that out!" thread than anything. Personally I still think that my advice accurately fit the question & the OP's needs.


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## Mike T.

mm9 said:


> Thank you for your answer. A few others were trying to overcomplicate the issue or just acting like d%&kheads, which seems to be the norm for a few folks here. Thanks to all who tried to actually be helpful.


I'm sure, due to none of us knowing your definition of "d%&kheads", we're now wishing we could try to help retroactively.


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## robt57

mm9 said:


> Thank you for your answer. A few others were trying to overcomplicate the issue or just acting like d%&kheads


'

Some not acting. 

As to over complicating, with all due respect: When someone tells me they are riding 23m tires on anything but pristine pavement and at your weight.. I think it is fair to say fundamentally, you need to think a little more complex on the issue. Again, due respect.

I'd sure not ignore the consensus, dikheadedness aside, regarding tires size/function /pressures per rider size girth et al.

If you deem I am one of the dikheads, don't discount the data for the intonation until you empirically discount the data, as in with personal experience..

If any of my posts in thread cause you to put me in the dikhead category, I both apologize and assure you it was no act if I was being one..


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## mm9

All forums seem to have a small % of posters which tend to communicate with rudeness and condescension. These folks try to justify their lack of courtesy when confronted. Some of the approaches taken by a few, would earn them a kick in the pants if this was face to face communication. I have no right to be complete judge and jury on the subject, just find that the overall tone of this place to be increasingly abrasive at times. Tired of seeing folks with good honest questions get roasted here. For example - I didn't give all the particulars about my situation. But, in general, the question could have been answered easily. 

I did learn a lot from some of the detailed offshoots of the conversation, so thanks for those also.


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## mm9

robt57 said:


> '
> 
> 
> 
> 
> If any of my posts in thread cause you to put me in the dikhead category, I both apologize and assure you it was no act if I was being one..


Not at all robt57 - you were trying to add to the conversation without condescension or being a smart aleck - thank you.


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## mm9

DaveWC said:


> I'm guessing you need to cater your advice to the person asking the question. In this case the OP only wanted to know, in general, without knowing his weight, his current PSI, his issues with flatting or with gravel... should he raise or lower his tire pressure for gravel. Clearly he doesn't want good or specific advice, nor is he able to do even the the minimum in terms of using google to find answers. All he wanted was a one word answer... lower/increase. If anything, this thread was more of a "Hey, I cycle on gravel, check that out!" thread than anything. Personally I still think that my advice accurately fit the question & the OP's needs.


Bullbutter! If someone is taking a route on their road bike where they might find themselves on gravel and he's running the correct pressure for the typical road bike and for the riders weight, and as stated that road bike has 23 mm tires...... Generally speaking, would he lower or raise the pressure for the gravel. How difficult is it to answer that? No, I think you are just using the details as an excuse for communicating like a (edited took out).


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## cxwrench

mm9 said:


> Bullbutter! If someone is taking a route on their road bike where they might find themselves on gravel and he's running the correct pressure for the typical road bike and for the riders weight, and as stated that road bike has 23 mm tires...... Generally speaking, would he lower or raise the pressure for the gravel. How difficult is it to answer that? No, I think you are just using the details as an excuse for communicating like a (edited took out).


The problem is we have no idea what your idea of 'correct' pressure is. Or how you ride. Too many variables to not need some details. For me personally I would (and do) not change my pressure at all. I have a couple of spots on rides that I normally do that include a mile or 2 of gravel that is not too rough but definitely not smooth or packed. I usually run 25 or more recently 28mm tires, so I don't do anything differently. 
If, for example, you weighed 140 and had your 23mm tires inflated to 80-90, I'd leave them alone. At your weight I'd get some bigger tires for sure. If your ride has a small percentage of gravel, why change pressure? Just go slow enough to be able to react to and miss the bad stuff. If it's got a high percentage of gravel what are you doing on 23s? 

See what I mean?


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## robt57

mm9 said:


> Not at all robt57 - you were trying to add to the conversation without condescension or being a smart aleck - thank you.


I am from the NE, and have learned my 'normal' can be construed as snarky quite frequently. Being married to a Brit since 1983 adds a nice subtle sarcastic layer to the NJ/NY snark. I got spanked here in the PNW for the first few years until I quite shooting form the hip.  Realizing how useful the more subtle Brit sarcasm I leaned from the wife is more useful on this side of the country. 

Agree about the internet beer muscles and face to face 100%.

But my sig line is kind of the post-curser, if you will... but by the time folks read that I have already pissssssed them off. 

Ultimately if there was enough data points to help you along, you did not waste your effort hopefully... A little pee-oed is good for you!


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## DaveWC

mm9 said:


> Bullbutter! If someone is taking a route on their road bike where they might find themselves on gravel and he's running the correct pressure for the typical road bike and for the riders weight, and as stated that road bike has 23 mm tires...... Generally speaking, would he lower or raise the pressure for the gravel. How difficult is it to answer that? No, I think you are just using the details as an excuse for communicating like a (edited took out).


My regular weekend 50 mile ride has a 3 mile stretch of gravel, right in the middle. I've never touched my pressure for this part, just left it alone. Leaving tire pressure alone wasn't a choice given in the OP, ha. I stand by the assertion that googling or searching the forum for "tire pressure gravel" would have answered the lower/increase question in two seconds. I did it for the forum and didn't find a single post that recommended increasing tire pressure when going on gravel. How difficult is it to just look?


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## PBL450

The difference between road race designed 23 and 32XC in Conti is nearly 1/2 lb.


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## mm9

DaveWC said:


> My regular weekend 50 mile ride has a 3 mile stretch of gravel, right in the middle. I've never touched my pressure for this part, just left it alone. Leaving tire pressure alone wasn't a choice given in the OP, ha. I stand by the assertion that googling or searching the forum for "tire pressure gravel" would have answered the lower/increase question in two seconds. I did it for the forum and didn't find a single post that recommended increasing tire pressure when going on gravel. How difficult is it to just look?


I looked and kept looking. There was not a clear answer - so I put the question out here. Your regular answer is "why did you not just use google?" and your answers are often condescending and rude. You started an entire thread just making fun of people here. Why do we ask anything here at all? It's ALL been covered in google. No, it's like a campfire with friends, we want to hear what they have to say about a subject.


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## mm9

robt57 said:


> I am from the NE, and have learned my 'normal' can be construed as snarky quite frequently. Being married to a Brit since 1983 adds a nice subtle sarcastic layer to the NJ/NY snark. I got spanked here in the PNW for the first few years until I quite shooting form the hip.  Realizing how useful the more subtle Brit sarcasm I leaned from the wife is more useful on this side of the country.
> 
> Agree about the internet beer muscles and face to face 100%.
> 
> But my sig line is kind of the post-curser, if you will... but by the time folks read that I have already pissssssed them off.
> 
> Ultimately if there was enough data points to help you along, you did not waste your effort hopefully... A little pee-oed is good for you!


Have worked with folks all over the country. I like doing business with North Easterners - direct and no BS. Have several friends from the UK - love their humor. What I have trouble tolerating is someone just being a jerk. Especially when hiding behind a keyboard. There were some helpful data points here. Thanks


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## mm9

cxwrench said:


> The problem is we have no idea what your idea of 'correct' pressure is. Or how you ride. Too many variables to not need some details. For me personally I would (and do) not change my pressure at all. I have a couple of spots on rides that I normally do that include a mile or 2 of gravel that is not too rough but definitely not smooth or packed. I usually run 25 or more recently 28mm tires, so I don't do anything differently.
> If, for example, you weighed 140 and had your 23mm tires inflated to 80-90, I'd leave them alone. At your weight I'd get some bigger tires for sure. If your ride has a small percentage of gravel, why change pressure? Just go slow enough to be able to react to and miss the bad stuff. If it's got a high percentage of gravel what are you doing on 23s?
> 
> See what I mean?


I see what you mean - thanks.


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## robt57

mm9 said:


> I like doing business with North Easterners - direct and no BS.


I miss that most. I lived in Nashville for 9 yr before coming to PNW, I hated doing business there I can say. 

Back to the NE, not only direct and no BS, but mostly efficient and quick in terms of having respect for time and resources in my view. The most non-zero-sum methodology is the best way I can put it, and I do miss that.


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## DaveWC

mm9 said:


> I looked and kept looking. There was not a clear answer - so I put the question out here.


It literally took seconds...



PhotonFreak said:


> Moreover, I'm a lightweight (125lb) and the roads in my area bumpy as hell, so I like to run pressure lower than recommended for most 23s--95/85psi front/rear.





kbiker3111 said:


> It depends on the smoothness of the riding surface. If you are riding on glass, the highest pressure possible is fastest. If you are riding on gravel a much lower pressure is faster.





BigTex_BMC said:


> specialized roubaix armadillo tires (available in a 700 x 23/25 clincher), along with running lower tire pressure and you'll be fine.


Here's an actual thread whose topic is tire pressure & is specifically about tire pressure on gravel. I looked at every thread that had anything to do with tire pressure & gravel and gave the best representation here. There was not one single link that suggested that raising tire pressure on gravel was ever the answer. It was a pretty clear answer. It doesn't have to be a campfire with stupid friends.

I wouldn't have said anything about you using Google until you got pissy that people wanted you to provide more information.


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## DaveWC

mm9 said:


> Your regular answer is "why did you not just use google?" and your answers are often condescending and rude.


I know you like to single me out, but check out the first 7 responses to this thread & tell me which are not condescending. Some put more effort into their condescension but they are all telling you that this thread represents zero effort on your part.


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## QuiQuaeQuod

As I run 28s, I don't do anything different.

Were I running 23s, at the lower end of the psi range for me, and the gravel was rougher/larger and not all smoothpacked, I would up the pressure 5 psi. Just in case a pokey rock did some poking point upwards. If I needed them hard as rocks, I would just go with wider tires.


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## velodog

QuiQuaeQuod said:


> As I run 28s, I don't do anything different.
> 
> Were I running 23s, at the lower end of the psi range for me, and the gravel was rougher/larger and not all smoothpacked, I would up the pressure 5 psi. Just in case a pokey rock did some poking point upwards. If I needed them hard as rocks, I would just go with wider tires.


Why would you up the pressure 5lbs to combat that "pokey rock"?


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## den bakker

mm9 said:


> No, it's like a campfire with friends, we want to hear what they have to say about a subject.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R6dm9rN6oTs


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## mm9

DaveWC said:


> I know you like to single me out, but check out the first 7 responses to this thread & tell me which are not condescending. Some put more effort into their condescension but they are all telling you that this thread represents zero effort on your part.


No. I don't "like" to single you out. In my opinion you often communicate in a style that is condescending, rude and smart aleck to posters here. I'm tired of it. I think many are tired of it. Maybe you don't realize it? I think we should call out posters who are regularly condescending, rude & smart alec. You don't know the effort I've put into this topic. The answers I was finding were confusing to me so I posted on this forum. People can put across constructive advice without being jerks about it.


----------



## mm9

den bakker said:


> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R6dm9rN6oTs


Well timed comic relief!


----------



## PBL450

DaveWC said:


> I know you like to single me out, but check out the first 7 responses to this thread & tell me which are not condescending. Some put more effort into their condescension but they are all telling you that this thread represents zero effort on your part.


So what? Don't read it then... You can learn a whole lot on this forum, but there are a ton of jerky replies... When I was speed skating and frequented that forum, you never saw that kind of thing. Granted, it's a small community... You may well meet a bunch of forum members. 

Snark that's funny can be worth it... There are also posts with great content wrapped in snark. In both cases I see past the 'tude... It took effort, intelligence or expertise to post it. But then there is just snark, asshat, obnoxious stuff. There is no reason for it and no value to it.


----------



## DaveWC

PBL450 said:


> Snark that's funny can be worth it... There are also posts with great content wrapped in snark. In both cases I see past the 'tude... It took effort, intelligence or expertise to post it. But then there is just snark, asshat, obnoxious stuff. There is no reason for it and no value to it.


I liked the snark in my first post on this thread. I felt I put more effort into that post than the OP did on the entire thread. And I was done with it at that point, content in my snarkiness. The OP then felt it necessary to call names & I responded by pointing out the inanity of yet another of his threads that could have easily be cleared up with a few seconds work. And here we are, you've overlooked his responsibility & share of the blame for the stupidity & have chosen sides. You do that a lot I've noticed. You see yourself as the omnipotent arbiter of all that is just, and we're just idiots apparently seeking your approval. You're the champion of those that call others d&*kheads. I guess it's good work if you can get it.


----------



## PBL450

DaveWC said:


> I liked the snark in my first post on this thread. I felt I put more effort into that post than the OP did on the entire thread. And I was done with it at that point, content in my snarkiness. The OP then felt it necessary to call names & I responded by pointing out the inanity of yet another of his threads that could have easily be cleared up with a few seconds work. And here we are, you've overlooked his responsibility & share of the blame for the stupidity & have chosen sides. You do that a lot I've noticed. You see yourself as the omnipotent arbiter of all that is just, and we're just idiots apparently seeking your approval. You're the champion of those that call others d&*kheads. I guess it's good work if you can get it.


Your first post is def a little chuckle... So pardon a little that. OP doesn't have a "responsibility," though, there aren't evil forum posts? So what? He posted something you found easy to answer with a forum search? I find this forum's search tool really awful and often useless. I have made posts and referenced that specifically. Things I figured would have multiple threads and I can't seem to find one good one? You use "responsibility," "blame," and "stupidity" references of that sort here, all kind of weird descriptors. "Chosen sides," again, a weird nomenclature. Omnipotent arbiter? Hahaha! If I could adjudicate all things with all conceivable powers that would be so F'in COOL!!! I'm not sure you know what you wrote there though, the context seems to indicate you don't have a clue as to the meanings... I've re-read it, and maybe... But it isn't clear. Omnipotent, arbiter of all that is just and y'all are just idiots... Dude... You are whacked. That's what it says. Where in the hell do you me see me begging for approval? Like I care. If I'm omnipotent and the ultimate arbiter, as an omnipotent being would be, what the F do I care about approval? 

A champion? I wish. But if I keep a new person around by calling jack ass posters like you out then maybe I'm championing something? You are making it a much bigger accomplishment than I ever considered. Thanks. I appreciate that. I might get a T-shirt made. Or maybe a super hero costume!! 

My point, in a take-away? If you are going to be an asshat, be funny or offer good technical information. There are people that do that regularly. And then there is you.


----------



## DaveWC

You're right, there were a lot of complicated words there. Sorry for that. 

btw, the best way to search this forum is from google. Search for site:forums.roadbikereview.com gravel tire pressure. Much more effective I've found. I've told this to the OP in the past but he ignored the advice. [snark]Much easier to just ask the question again I guess. [/snark]


----------



## LuckyB

I got a snake bite flat Monday running 120 psi on the back (23mm) flying over a 25 foot gravel patch, of country road. Karma bites my ass, damn. I guess I've learnt my lesson and will slow down and poke across those repairs from now on.


----------



## LuckyB

LuckyB said:


> I got a snake bite flat Monday running 120 psi on the back (23mm) flying over a 25 foot gravel patch, of country road. Karma bites my ass, damn. I guess I've learnt my lesson and will slow down and poke across those repairs from now on.


I needed new tires anyway. The wear spots were wore off front and back and I've been riding on borrowed money.


----------



## PBL450

DaveWC said:


> You're right, there were a lot of complicated words there. Sorry for that.
> 
> btw, the best way to search this forum is from google. Search for site:forums.roadbikereview.com gravel tire pressure. Much more effective I've found. I've told this to the OP in the past but he ignored the advice. [snark]Much easier to just ask the question again I guess. [/snark]


Pardon... You have demonstrated in past threads that you you don't understand a lot of words... Like your completely mis-used application of illiterate. It seemed you never took a second to google the actual definition? Duh? And you used it to describe typos. The definition has nothing to with typos... As was demonstrated in a very quick, 2 second, Google search. It means unable to read or write (or both). And there aren't multiple definitions. So, he who lives in glass houses shouldn't cast stones? You are guilty of exactly what you claim is so very upsetting to you! Not taking the 2 seconds to google illiterate. It would make you seem less like a dumbass. And I mean that as the uber, omniscient, ever present, all being, God of everything that I am. I am who is. LOL!!!!


----------



## mm9

PBL450 said:


> But if I keep a new person around by calling jack ass posters like you out then maybe I'm championing something?


Agree. I think we have to not just let the caustic folks "pile on" people who might ask a naive question etc., or this place will turn into just a few regular smart a%$ posters, who try to just out smart a%$ each other. The contributing members of the forum will eventually get tired of it and just go away.


----------



## duriel

I think I'm too late to get involved in this matchup. Let me know who wins, I got the next match.


----------



## cxwrench

mm9 said:


> Agree. I think we have to not just let the caustic folks "pile on" people who might ask a naive question etc., or this place will turn into just a few regular smart a%$ posters, who try to just out smart a%$ each other. The contributing members of the forum will eventually get tired of it and just go away.


There is a never ending supply of new members that won't ever bother to take the time to see how things work and are structured. There are more now than ever. Us 'caustic' folks will continue to do what we do. This forum is wayyyyyyyyyyy more pleasant than a lot of other forums out there. I also think that a large number of people join only to get some quick info on whatever they need at the moment and then never come back. This must have something to do w/ a lot of the guys that just post every question in 'general'...they know they won't be around long and don't give a ****.


----------



## mm9

cxwrench said:


> There is a never ending supply of new members that won't ever bother to take the time to see how things work and are structured. There are more now than ever. Us 'caustic' folks will continue to do what we do. This forum is wayyyyyyyyyyy more pleasant than a lot of other forums out there. I also think that a large number of people join only to get some quick info on whatever they need at the moment and then never come back. This must have something to do w/ a lot of the guys that just post every question in 'general'...they know they won't be around long and don't give a ****.


We can help them along and give them advice on how to use the forum without being jerks in the process. Some of the caustic folks are just using the keyboard to try and act like the tough guy that they are not in real life. Easy to be a tough guy behind a keyboard. So what if someone wants a quick answer? We might have a chance to win them over and have them want to stay and contribute.


----------



## DaveWC

PBL450 said:


> Pardon... You have demonstrated in past threads that you you don't understand a lot of words... Like your completely mis-used application of illiterate. It seemed you never took a second to google the actual definition? Duh? And you used it to describe typos. The definition has nothing to with typos...


Ha ha ha, still going on that eh... you're going to discuss the ability to understand words by pointing to a thread where you misspelled "formulate"? That's rich. You're right, I should have suggested that you are semi-illiterate (having or demonstrating very little or no education). So you were just stupid. You win. Moste peeple vu the abilty to spel as a principal need in been litrate. I should have just laughed at you and stated that someone who can't spell the word "formulate" shouldn't be pointing fingers. I guess that shows that your understanding of words sucks too eh? Must be hard for you to google what you cannot spell. 

btw, google the terms "forms of illiteracy".... you made a really big deal over there not being forms of illiteracy in that thread. I gave up trying to educate you because I figured if you couldn't spell big words you probably couldn't read them either.

p.s. Here's a funny thing. You were the person who brought up illiteracy on that thread... you know the thread where other folks were reading & writing stuff. You suggested that den bakker was illiterate because you didn't think that his response made sense when he said "is your ability to measure distance better than measuring cadence?" Clearly he wrote words and they were on the topic of cycling so he must be able to read. So how is your use of the word illiterate correct in this thread? Just because you couldn't understand what he typed, that makes him illiterate? And how did your response de-stigmatize (sic) illiteracy?


----------



## DaveWC

btw, on the topic of snark on this forum...



PBL450 said:


> Why did you post? What are you asking? This is one of the most dipshit posts I have ever seen... And wait... I have the option to NOT to add to it... Why am I posting if it's a stupid thread? Because it isn't a stupid thread. It's a ridiculous, idiotic and moronic thread started by a combative jackass. What the hell is your point? Or just go away.





PBL450 said:


> That doesn't even make a little bit of sense? Not a spec? Maybe I missed something? The OP is considering ice riding and I didn't catch it? Or is this just another obnoxious and useless comment so common for you?
> 
> OP, just ignore the asshats like den. This is a great forum and resource. You have to harden up some... There are a few people that are useless and annoying. Den is one of them, sorry.


(again with den bakker. You like targeting posters don't you?)


----------



## LuckyB

DaveWC said:


> btw, on the topic of snark on this forum...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> (again with den bakker. You like targeting posters don't you?)


So.......do you guys, lower or increase tire pressure when ya'll take to gravel roads?


----------



## LuckyB

DaveWC said:


> btw, on the topic of snark on this forum...
> 
> 
> Quote Originally Posted by PBL450 View Post
> Why did you post? What are you asking? This is one of the most dipshit posts I have ever seen... And wait... I have the option to NOT to add to it... Why am I posting if it's a stupid thread? Because it isn't a stupid thread. It's a ridiculous, idiotic and moronic thread started by a combative jackass. What the hell is your point? Or just go away.
> 
> Quote Originally Posted by PBL450 View Post
> That doesn't even make a little bit of sense? Not a spec? Maybe I missed something? The OP is considering ice riding and I didn't catch it? Or is this just another obnoxious and useless comment so common for you?
> 
> OP, just ignore the asshats like den. This is a great forum and resource. You have to harden up some... There are a few people that are useless and annoying. Den is one of them, sorry.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> (again with den bakker. You like targeting posters don't you?)


So.......do you guys, lower or increase tire pressure when ya'll take to gravel roads?


----------



## DaveWC

LuckyB said:


> So.......do you guys, lower or increase tire pressure when ya'll take to gravel roads?


Previously answered. 



DaveWC said:


> My regular weekend 50 mile ride has a 3 mile stretch of gravel, right in the middle. I've never touched my pressure for this part, just left it alone. Leaving tire pressure alone wasn't a choice given in the OP, ha.


----------



## velodog

LuckyB said:


> So.......do you guys, lower or increase tire pressure when ya'll take to gravel roads?


Uh...what the heck does this have to do with snark? You can start a new post if you want to delve into tire pressure.

Oh, and you can start it in the "Wheels and Tires" sub-forum.


----------



## mm9

velodog said:


> Uh...what the heck does this have to do with snark? You can start a new post if you want to delve into tire pressure.
> 
> Oh, and you can start it in the "Wheels and Tires" sub-forum.


ha


----------



## ziscwg

cxwrench said:


> ^This^ C'mon OP...make the effort.





Winn said:


> Be reasonabke the dude can't tell us his how much he weighs his current tire pressure what he's tried already what type of tire where in the world he is or anything. Expecting effort is unreasonable.


OMG
CX reasonable?????

No way. We like him with his unreasonable attitude. He's the man that rips you a new one if you blink in the wrong sub forum. We have Thurs drinking parties around his posts and what he did that week to the n00bs. He's legendary.


----------



## QuiQuaeQuod

velodog said:


> Why would you up the pressure 5lbs to combat that "pokey rock"?


To lower the chance of it poking the tire all the way to the rim. Pinch flat, not a snake bite but a pinch flat can result.

As I said though, 28s, so I would actually do nothing.


----------



## cxwrench

QuiQuaeQuod said:


> To lower the chance of it poking the tire all the way to the rim. *Pinch flat, not a snake bite but a pinch flat* can result.
> 
> As I said though, 28s, so I would actually do nothing.


Care to explain the difference?


----------



## robt57

cxwrench said:


> Care to explain the difference?


Yeah, if those two are mutually exclusive I have been wrong for an awful long time thinking they are/were the same thing... 


On the OFF TOPIC BS about language and speeeeeeeeling et al. WTF people, if you understood the meaning key your response to the topic. You all are obviously so good at spelling and grammar and typing skills surely all the extra paragraphs of practice and critiques are not needed for your extraordinary skill sets and you can find other things to complain about... like run on sentences maybe....

Now go hit the Dam Dam Dam thread and waste some more bytes telling the OP it should be Damn Damn Damn. Like it matter or something.


*MEH¹⁰*


----------



## velodog

cxwrench said:


> Care to explain the difference?


Probably psychological.


----------



## QuiQuaeQuod

cxwrench said:


> Care to explain the difference?


Snakebite = tube pinched on the rim sidewalls, on both sides, resulting in 2 holes. Low pressure, sharp edge hit will do this.

Pinch flat = anything that pinches the tube and creates a hole.


----------



## DaveWC

Interesting distinction. Totally disputed by every other source I've ever read on the subject. A pinch flat is act of pinching the tube. A snakebite is the resulting appearance of the two holes caused by the pinch flat.

From Sheldon Brown's page:

Pinch Cuts result from hitting stones, curbs, or sharp edges of holes in the road surface. When the tire hits a sharp edge hard enough, it compresses so that it bottoms out. The inner tube can get pinched between the rock and the rim. Pinch cuts usually put two small holes in the tube. This type of damage is sometimes called a "snake bite" because the two holes look like the wound made by the fangs of a snake.


----------



## QuiQuaeQuod

DaveWC said:


> Interesting distinction. Totally disputed by every other source I've ever read on the subject. A pinch flat is act of pinching the tube. A snakebite is the resulting appearance of the two holes caused by the pinch flat.
> 
> From Sheldon Brown's page:
> 
> Pinch Cuts result from hitting stones, curbs, or sharp edges of holes in the road surface. When the tire hits a sharp edge hard enough, it compresses so that it bottoms out. The inner tube can get pinched between the rock and the rim. Pinch cuts usually put two small holes in the tube. This type of damage is sometimes called a "snake bite" because the two holes look like the wound made by the fangs of a snake.


Sheldon says pinch cuts *usually* put two holes in the tube. Usually.

Do you think calling a pinch cut that makes one hole a "snakebite" makes sense? I don't.

Pinching can cause one or two holes. Two holes look like a snake bite. Snakebites are a subset of pinch cuts.


----------



## cxwrench

QuiQuaeQuod said:


> Sheldon says pinch cuts *usually* put two holes in the tube. Usually.
> 
> Do you think calling a pinch cut that makes one hole a "snakebite" makes sense? I don't.
> 
> Pinching can cause one or two holes. Two holes look like a snake bite. Snakebites are a subset of pinch cuts.


FFS...they're the same damn thing. I nominate you for 'Overthinker of the year'.


----------



## robt57

cxwrench said:


> FFS...they're the same damn thing. I nominate you for 'Overthinker of the year'.



1/2 a snake bite VS two holes snakebite. We need sub categories even more detailed names for all the same thing. 

Say, if one of the two is round and the other a slit, and whether or not the slit goes inline or perpendicular... If there is two slits and not just holes.


Pinch flats = snakebite. Although I am no expert, never having had any...


----------



## QuiQuaeQuod

cxwrench said:


> FFS...they're the same damn thing. I nominate you for 'Overthinker of the year'.


Well, if you can ignore the distinction if you like. It is only very rarely an issue in diagnosing the cause of flats. One hole is usually a puncture, but not always.


----------



## DaveWC

QuiQuaeQuod said:


> Snakebites are a subset of pinch cuts.


Either you don't understand what the word subset means or your initial statement makes zero sense. If a snakebite is a subset of a pinch flat (which I disagree with btw), then all snakebites are pinch flats, but all pinch flats are not necessarily snakebites. But given that logic, the statement "To lower the chance of it poking the tire all the way to the rim. Pinch flat, not a snake bite but a pinch flat can result." is illogical since reducing the chance of a pinch flat will obviously also reduce the chance of a snakebite (since all snakebites are pinch flats). 

Now just so you understand, the point of the designation "snakebite" is a way of describing the reason for the flat. The tube was pinched between an object & the wheel rim. The result is usually two holes, sometimes one. So newbies are told to look for two holes (snakebite) so they can determine the cause of the flat and not assume it was a puncture from a sharp object. The common advice to avoid pinch flats is to increase tire pressure & avoid potholes, large objects. Funny thing, that same advice is given to avoid snakebites, since all snakebites are caused by pinch flats.

Even in your description of the cause of a flat that you're trying to avoid (poking the tire all the way to the rim) what you describe could easily result in a snakebite. But you act like a snakebite is something completely different.


----------



## quikrick1

I once saw an old rattlesnake wondering around in the desert, Bugger had only one fang! So if he bit me, would it still be a snake bite???


----------



## QuiQuaeQuod

DaveWC said:


> Either you don't understand ...


I think I have stated things clearly.

And you have shown something clearly.

Have a nice day.


----------



## cxwrench

QuiQuaeQuod said:


> Well, if you can ignore the distinction if you like. It is only very rarely an issue in diagnosing the cause of flats. One hole is usually a puncture, but not always.


Nearly always one hole on the 'outside' side of the tube is a puncture. One or more holes on the inside side of the tube is either a pinch flat or a rim strip fault. There is no need to get any more detailed than that.


----------



## dir-t

quikrick1 said:


> I once saw an old rattlesnake wondering around in the desert, Bugger had only one fang! So if he bit me, would it still be a snake bite???


Yeah, 'cause you got bit by a snake. See the difference here?


----------



## dir-t

cxwrench said:


> Nearly always one hole on the 'outside' side of the tube is a puncture. One or more holes on the inside side of the tube is either a pinch flat or a rim strip fault. There is no need to get any more detailed than that.


By that logic there is no need to get any more detailed than "flat". The English language is chock full of gradations in detail and different people/professions have the option to use any of them . Calm the f-- down and enjoy the weekend already.


----------



## PBL450

robt57 said:


> 1/2 a snake bite VS two holes snakebite. We need sub categories even more detailed names for all the same thing.
> 
> Say, if one of the two is round and the other a slit, and whether or not the slit goes inline or perpendicular... If there is two slits and not just holes.
> 
> 
> Pinch flats = snakebite. Although I am no expert, never having had any...


If it's a slit and a hole it's called a wink flat.


----------



## robt57

PBL450 said:


> If it's a slit and a hole it's called a wink flat.



Now go hack Sheldon's Site to include that!


----------



## quikrick1

dir-t said:


> Yeah, 'cause you got bit by a snake. See the difference here?


Yeah but he only left ONE hole. It looked more like a puncture, certainly not a pinch. I'm so confused.


----------



## cxwrench

dir-t said:


> By that logic there is no need to get any more detailed than "flat". The English language is chock full of gradations in detail and different people/professions have the option to use any of them . Calm the f-- down and enjoy the weekend already.


Well, you do need to know where to look for the cause of the 'flat' or you'll just keep having the same thing happen. Since you're quoting me here, I'm guessing you're talking directly to me. Not sure why you've decided to take part all of a sudden and come in w/ an attitude reminiscent of mine, but yes, thanks. I'll enjoy the **** out of my weekend.


----------



## LuckyB

DaveWC said:


> Either you don't understand what the word subset means or your initial statement makes zero sense. If a snakebite is a subset of a pinch flat (which I disagree with btw), then all snakebites are pinch flats, but all pinch flats are not necessarily snakebites. But given that logic, the statement "To lower the chance of it poking the tire all the way to the rim. Pinch flat, not a snake bite but a pinch flat can result." is illogical since reducing the chance of a pinch flat will obviously also reduce the chance of a snakebite (since all snakebites are pinch flats).
> 
> Now just so you understand, the point of the designation "snakebite" is a way of describing the reason for the flat. The tube was pinched between an object & the wheel rim. The result is usually two holes, sometimes one. So newbies are told to look for two holes (snakebite) so they can determine the cause of the flat and not assume it was a puncture from a sharp object. The common advice to avoid pinch flats is to increase tire pressure & avoid potholes, large objects. Funny thing, that same advice is given to avoid snakebites, since all snakebites are caused by pinch flats.
> 
> Even in your description of the cause of a flat that you're trying to avoid (poking the tire all the way to the rim) what you describe could easily result in a snakebite. But you act like a snakebite is something completely different.


Damn, is that you, Data? Intriguing


----------



## DaveWC

LuckyB said:


> Damn, is that you, Data? Intriguing


Okay, how about some plain English? 

A - My tire suddenly went flat.
B - What is the cause?
A - I'm not sure, but I was cycling on gravel & I think a pokey rock did some poking point upwards and poked the tire all the way to the rim.
B - Are there two puncture holes in the tube?

A - Yes
B - It's a snakebite, your tire pressure was too low. Make sure you check pressure before each ride.

A - No, just one.
B - It's a pinch flat, your tire pressure was too low. Make sure you check pressure before each ride.

How does the snakebite designation provide any further information over pinch flat? It's merely descriptive and changes nothing.


----------



## LuckyB

DaveWC said:


> Okay, how about some plain English?
> 
> A - My tire suddenly went flat.
> B - What is the cause?
> A - I'm not sure, but I was cycling on gravel & I think a pokey rock did some poking point upwards and poked the tire all the way to the rim.
> B - Are there two puncture holes in the tube?
> 
> A - Yes
> B - It's a snakebite, your tire pressure was too low. Make sure you check pressure before each ride.
> 
> A - No, just one.
> B - It's a pinch flat, your tire pressure was too low. Make sure you check pressure before each ride.
> 
> How does the snakebite designation provide any further information over pinch flat? It's merely descriptive and changes nothing.


Hey man, I understand completely. I'm just amused on how everyone keeps rehashing the same thing over and over, saying the same thing differently and getting upset over rhetoric. Haha


----------



## ziscwg

DaveWC said:


> Okay, how about some plain English?
> 
> A - My tire suddenly went flat.
> B - What is the cause?
> A - I'm not sure, but I was cycling on gravel & I think a pokey rock did some poking point upwards and poked the tire all the way to the rim.
> B - Are there two puncture holes in the tube?
> 
> A - Yes
> B - It's a snakebite, your tire pressure was too low. Make sure you check pressure before each ride.
> 
> A - No, just one.
> B - It's a pinch flat, your tire pressure was too low. Make sure you check pressure before each ride.
> 
> How does the snakebite designation provide any further information over pinch flat? It's merely descriptive and changes nothing.


OMG,
Let me give you the the reason the call it snake bike

First it comes from mtb and dumb a$$es running too low of a pressure for the given terrain.

If you call it a pinch flat, while accurate, it sounds lame. Snake bite sounds like you were pulling 4 Gs around a berm and hit some unexpected rocks and got a flat. Way more rad sounding.............


----------



## robt57

robt57 said:


> For example and comparisons sake. I am 210-15lb and never run more than 95 in a rear 23C tire, usually 5-8 less front. I have never pinch flatted in my life on any bike/tire.


UPDATE: Can't say this anymore. 90lb in a 23mm Service Course Michelin with a latex tube and sealant. nNo tire damage I can find thankfully being a newer tire. 

I was in a pace line and rear tire hit a single 3/4" piece of errant bluestone/gravel. Snake bite/dual pinch. No way I could see it, nor did I see a wiggle around it from the guy I was behind...

One of the bites was a tiny hole, the other about 3mm. Latex tube did not tear in length as I have read happens. 

And life goes on...


----------



## Fredrico

robt57 said:


> UPDATE: Can't say this anymore. 90lb in a 23mm Service Course Michelin with a latex tube and sealant. nNo tire damage I can find thankfully being a newer tire.
> 
> I was in a pace line and rear tire hit a single 3/4" piece of errant bluestone/gravel. Snake bite/dual pinch. No way I could see it, nor did I see a wiggle around it from the guy I was behind...
> 
> One of the bites was a tiny hole, the other about 3mm. Latex tube did not tear in length as I have read happens.
> 
> And life goes on...


Life goes on, yeah, but live and learn. 

A 215 pound dude should be riding on 25C tires at 110 psi. That would give a nice comfortable ride. Those little rocks would just bounce right off the sidewalls like nothing. :yesnod:


----------



## robt57

25mm tires don't fit that bike, and my Scott Addict stays!  Actually, I should say a 25 on a wide rim just fits, but too close for me. The 23 on a wide rim is about as tight as I am willing to go.

I have been running 23s on it for 4 years and NEVER pinch flatted ever prior. I will be sticking with what I have been doing, and maybe it will be almost never before it happens again.  So there is no live and learning about it.

My fav for go fast bike is 23/25 front/rear. Those I run 85/87 lbs with GP4/ Latex & sealant. I have 25/27s and bigger on a few bikes...

If I was at the front of the rotation I woudl have seen it and went around the little rock of Gibraltar... But I wassunt


----------



## Fredrico

robt57 said:


> 25mm tires don't fit that bike, and my Scott Addict stays!  Actually, I should say a 25 on a wide rim just fits, but too close for me. The 23 on a wide rim is about as tight as I am willing to go.
> 
> I have been running 23s on it for 4 years and NEVER pinch flatted ever prior. I will be sticking with what I have been doing, and maybe it will be almost never before it happens again.  So there is no live and learning about it.
> 
> My fav for go fast bike is 23/25 front/rear. Those I run 85/87 lbs with GP4/ Latex & sealant. I have 25/27s and bigger on a few bikes...
> 
> If I was at the front of the rotation I woudl have seen it and went around the little rock of Gibraltar... But I wassunt


Yep, sh!t happens. The laws of chance will never strike again! How about pumping up the rear to 105 psi? 

But don't listen to me. I'm not as bad as riders who go all the way to 120 psi, but pump the 28Cs on the commuter to 100, a good ten pounds harder than "recommended." It's all a matter of comfort vs. rolling resistance. :yesnod:


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## robt57

Fredrico said:


> Yep, sh!t happens. The laws of chance will never strike again! How about pumping up the rear to 105 psi?
> 
> But don't listen to me. I'm not as bad as riders who go all the way to 120 psi, but pump the 28Cs on the commuter to 100, a good ten pounds harder than "recommended." It's all a matter of comfort vs. rolling resistance. :yesnod:


I hear ya, Just that with a one time occurrence, and I used to be heavier... I will stay put.

But really the psychology of it is when I am pumping I bet I will tend to go over than under the 90 until I forget about it probably. 

It is about that time of year for 27 Paves for me anyway. And the CX All road disc to roll out...

Maybe next season I will put the tubeless 23 Hutch Fusions on these SL23 Pacento wheels on the Scott. Being the old DA wheels they are on now are about to go to having no wear indicator real soon.


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## cxwrench

Fredrico said:


> Yep, sh!t happens. The laws of chance will never strike again! How about pumping up the rear to 105 psi?
> 
> But don't listen to me. I'm not as bad as riders who go all the way to 120 psi, but pump the 28Cs on the commuter to 100, a good ten pounds harder than "recommended." It's all a matter of comfort vs. rolling resistance. :yesnod:


170lbs, 28mm tires at 60frt, 70rr. _How much do you weigh? _


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## Fredrico

cxwrench said:


> 170lbs, 28mm tires at 60frt, 70rr. _How much do you weigh? _


I weigh 145 right now, but weighed up to 170 in previous years.

Dunno, back in the 80s we decided 25mm tires pumped up to 100-105 psi were as fast as 120 psi, but still gave good shock absorption and grip. The heavier the load, the more comfortable they would be, as the load squished the tire a bit more on the bumps.

Skinny tires aired up to 80-85 psi feel sluggish to me. And I'm loading them up with average 165 pounds. :frown2:


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## SwiftSolo

I weight 185 and ride on 27mm tires 80 front 85 rear--no flats. 

The more important question is: What will it take to kill this tired thread?


Fredrico said:


> I weigh 145 right now, but weighed up to 170 in previous years.
> 
> Dunno, back in the 80s we decided 25mm tires pumped up to 100-105 psi were as fast as 120 psi, but still gave good shock absorption and grip. The heavier the load, the more comfortable they would be, as the load squished the tire a bit more on the bumps.
> 
> Skinny tires aired up to 80-85 psi feel sluggish to me. And I'm loading them up with average 165 pounds. :frown2:


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## cxwrench

Fredrico said:


> I weigh 145 right now, but weighed up to 170 in previous years.
> 
> Dunno, back in the 80s we decided 25mm tires pumped up to 100-105 psi were as fast as 120 psi, but still gave good shock absorption and grip. The heavier the load, the more comfortable they would be, as the load squished the tire a bit more on the bumps.
> 
> Skinny tires aired up to 80-85 psi feel sluggish to me. And I'm loading them up with average 165 pounds. :frown2:


You do understand the concept of larger tires having greater air volume and thus needing less pressure to feel the same as smaller tires, right? At the low extreme are 4-5" fat bike tires as low as 4-5psi. At 10psi they feel really hard. With me at 170ish and the bike and 'stuff' we're looking at right around 200 lbs. Like I said before I run my 28mm tires at 60/70. I inflate 25mm tires to 70/80. 23mm (if I ever rode them again) to 85/95. They are definitely not sluggish and have great cornering traction.


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## Fredrico

SwiftSolo said:


> I weight 185 and ride on 27mm tires 80 front 85 rear--no flats.
> 
> The more important question is: What will it take to kill this tired thread?


Waalll shoot, then…a bunch of fast riders I used to spar with aired up their 25 mm to 90-95-100-105 psi in the lust for speed, and for 35 years I just stuck to it. :frown2: I never get flats, though. And I like the feel of the road. Back at the shop in the nineties and 00s, serious roadies used anywhere from 90-120 psi, but never heard of anyone going as low as 80-85 psi. But what do I know. 

When my internal surgery heals and doc lets me back on the bike, I'll try these lower pressures for sure. I can see the advantage in grip, although I rolled a tire off the rim in a fast corner once at 90 psi. At 105 psi I would have slid off the road, but for the intense pressure on the outside pedal holding that hard sucker on the tarmac. :yesnod:


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## wgscott

quikrick1 said:


> I once saw an old rattlesnake wondering around in the desert,


Were you wondering, or was the snake wandering? Or was it a side-winder wonder-snake?

I rode by a small rattle snake a couple of weeks ago, but because I had my 35 mm Clemency XPLOR USH, I got off without a subset of a pinch flat. I wander if it slowed me down.


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