# La Vuelta thread -- spoilers allowed once the race starts



## KoroninK (Aug 9, 2010)

Many of the teams have released their line-ups for la Vuelta now.

Movistar is sending 3 leaders. La Vuelta has chosen to honor Valverde by giving him the #1 for the race.


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## El Scorcho (Dec 14, 2005)

KoroninK said:


> Movistar is sending 3 leaders. La Vuelta has chosen to honor Valverde by giving him the #1 for the race.


If you send 3 then you really don't have 1.


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## KoroninK (Aug 9, 2010)

I think they should have gone with Valverde and Carapaz and left Quintana off the Vuelta team.


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## il sogno (Jul 15, 2002)

Primoz Roglic is riding. I wonder if he'll be team leader.


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## azpeterb (Jun 1, 2006)

I'll be rooting for Fuglsang. He was having a great season until a disappointing TDF. We'll see if he returns to form in La Vuelta.


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## ogre (Dec 16, 2005)

KoroninK said:


> Movistar is sending 3 leaders. La Vuelta has chosen to honor Valverde by giving him the #1 for the race.


Carapaz is out due to an injury at an international criterium. Valverde has said that he is riding for Quintana.


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## KoroninK (Aug 9, 2010)

ogre said:


> Carapaz is out due to an injury at an international criterium. Valverde has said that he is riding for Quintana.


Valverde has said before and still ended up riding for GC himself because, as the team even said, he can't bring himself to not race for GC. Also with Carapaz out, it's highly likely the team is asking him to ride for GC anyway.


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## KoroninK (Aug 9, 2010)

Apparently a big crash today before televised coverage started with many riders going down and 4: Uran, Carthy, de la Parte, and Roche having to abandon.


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## Marc (Jan 23, 2005)

KoroninK said:


> Apparently a big crash today before televised coverage started with many riders going down and 4: Uran, Carthy, de la Parte, and Roche having to abandon.


And TJ just rode of the road late in the stage...something in the water at Team EF? They need Remedial Bike Handling?


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## coldash (May 7, 2012)

The first EF and others crash was on a fast downhill bend. A J-V rider lost his front wheel on some water on the road (again!) and those behind had nowhere to go. Just luck as to whether a rider fell, survived, broke a bone, grazed skin etc. 

TJ’s was a lack of judgment. He ran out of road on a bend but it was a very hard stage and he was probably cooked.

Otherwise a bit of an odd stage. Nobody seems to want to defend or contend for the Red jersey amongst the leading teams e.g. Astana and Movistar. Having seen what is still to come, I guess they are keeping something back.


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## KoroninK (Aug 9, 2010)

Tejay abandons today due to injuries from the crash yesterday.

Valverde gets his stage win in his beloved Vuelta in the rainbow jersey.


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## coldash (May 7, 2012)

Another stage where the Red jersey wasn’t defended. Can’t say I blame them. The conditions towards the end were poor and tomorrow’s stage is short but with lots of metres to climb. 

Good for Sunweb to get a stage win and for Cofidis to get the Red, although I suspect that will only be for one day.


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## KoroninK (Aug 9, 2010)

It seems no one really wants the leader's jersey. Can't say I blame them either. Attempting to defend it today with the rain just wasn't going to happen, esp considered the insane stage tomorrow in Andorra (again). They appear to like insane climbing stages in Andorra. Then the ITT is the day after the rest day, so two very important stages back to back with a rest day in between. An ITT off a rest day likely means someone is going to have an off day.


One interesting thing from Valverde's stage win. The stage 7 win for Valverde comes 16 years after his first Vuelta stage win which sets the all time record for more years between first and last (or most recent) stage wins in any Grand Tour. The record in both the Giro and Tour is 15 year difference.

One other interesting note is that at least for a few days we have both the oldest and youngest riders in la Vuelta in the top 10 of the overall GC.


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## troutmd (Sep 7, 2007)

VIA Vuelta: A ITT following a mountain stage, hence bike racing not faux, made for TV entertainment.


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## Marc (Jan 23, 2005)

troutmd said:


> VIA Vuelta: A ITT following a mountain stage, hence bike racing not faux, made for TV entertainment.


Race going to pass near you, for live viewing?


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## KoroninK (Aug 9, 2010)

In this Vuelta we now have both the oldest rider (Valverde) and youngest rider (Pogacar) having won stages. Pogacar is 18 and a half years younger than Valverde. 
I'm hoping Alejandro doesn't end up sick from the cold and rain. He hates cold and suffers from it. He was shivering after both yesterday and today's stages. Today he was at the media area briefly giving 1 and 2 word answers for a short time before calling an end to it telling them he was frozen and going back to the team bus. One of the reporters said he wasn't surprised as Valverde was wrapped up in cold weather cycling gear and was visibly shivering.
https://www.sports-addict.net/es/ar...FCYw-CIi-8NQoQgBFsKZaSs2zdSQl3h62LtCski_xm8SY


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## rufus (Feb 3, 2004)

Moviestar is one dysfunctional team.


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## KoroninK (Aug 9, 2010)

rufus said:


> Moviestar is one dysfunctional team.


It seems next year, we'll find out how much of that dysfunction was issues with Quintana vs other issues.


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## coldash (May 7, 2012)

I appreciate that team orders should be followed but I’ve a bit of sympathy for Soler on stage 9. He was in with a very good chance of a stage win (home GT) and Quintana would have still got the Red, IMO, so it would have been a double success for Movistar As it turned out, I don’t think Soler did much to pace Quintana when they joined up. Maybe he was still mad, who knows..... the ways of team Movistar are indeed mysterious


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## El Scorcho (Dec 14, 2005)

By far the most baffling Movistar move was when my man Alejandro attacked while two of his guys were up the road, effectively dragging Roglic along with him. Valverde is too smart for that, I read it as an intentional FU to Quintana.


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## rufus (Feb 3, 2004)

coldash said:


> I appreciate that team orders should be followed but I’ve a bit of sympathy for Soler on stage 9. He was in with a very good chance of a stage win (home GT) and Quintana would have still got the Red, IMO, so it would have been a double success for Movistar As it turned out, I don’t think Soler did much to pace Quintana when they joined up. Maybe he was still mad, who knows..... the ways of team Movistar are indeed mysterious


If I remember the graphic correctly, I believe Soler was one of the three riders in the race who were local to that area, as well. 

Would have been nice to get a stage win in your home region.


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## flying (Feb 17, 2004)

rufus said:


> If I remember the graphic correctly, I believe Soler was one of the three riders in the race who were local to that area, as well.
> 
> Would have been nice to get a stage win in your home region.


Yes that is his region & I am sure he would have loved that to be his first GT Stage win.


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## ngl (Jan 22, 2002)

I don't see how Soler could have won the race if he couldn't even stay with Quintana when he was called back to help. 

In addition, if Movistar's goal is to win GC, or even obtain a podium position, they can't have their domestics racing for personal glory. The whole team has been FU for the last 3 years.


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## El Scorcho (Dec 14, 2005)

ngl said:


> I don't see how Soler could have won the race if he couldn't even stay with Quintana when he was called back to help.


He looked good off the front, I think he could have pushed it all the way to the line, but was obviously upset with the call from the team car. I think he petulantly shut it down once he did a token couple of minutes on the front for Nairo.


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## ngl (Jan 22, 2002)

El Scorcho said:


> He looked good off the front, I think he could have pushed it all the way to the line, but was obviously upset with the call from the team car. I think he petulantly shut it down once he did a token couple of minutes on the front for Nairo.


You are probably right. It's a sad situation to be a team leader and your domestics would rather go for a stage win rather than help you to obtain Red.


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## KoroninK (Aug 9, 2010)

Soler is originally from Catalonia province, but lives in Andorra.

Alejandro was trying to put time into Lopez and Roglic and once Rolgic caught him Roglic ended up doing more of the work. You could also see at the finish line that Alejandro was on his limit as he didn't sprint for the bonus seconds.

Some Spanish speakers have said aside from the display we saw from Soler he told the team car he'd wait for Valverde but wanted no part of helping Quintana. So he basically did a token/required pull then pulled off. However, with that said he did follow team orders even if he wasn't happy. 

I think Movistar just proved why teams do not send riders who are leaving the team to big races after July.


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## coldash (May 7, 2012)

Looks like Valverde is back to top dog in Movistar after Quintana’s loss of over 3 minute to Roglic in the TT. Valverde now just under 2 minutes behind Roglic on GC and Lopez, who was caught by Roglic, is just over 2 minutes down.


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## ngl (Jan 22, 2002)

KoroninK said:


> Some Spanish speakers have said aside from the display we saw from Soler he told the team car he'd wait for Valverde but wanted no part of helping Quintana. So he basically did a token/required pull then pulled off. However, with that said he did follow team orders even if he wasn't happy.


I think if Soler did this while on a team like Ineos (for example) he would be hitch-hiking home right now. Like it or not, a rider must follow Team orders. 



KoroninK said:


> I think Movistar just proved why teams do not send riders who are leaving the team to big races after July.


I think the main reason is to limit the rider's buying power.


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## KoroninK (Aug 9, 2010)

ngl said:


> I think if Soler did this while on a team like Ineos (for example) he would be hitch-hiking home right now. Like it or not, a rider must follow Team orders.
> 
> 
> I think the main reason is to limit the rider's buying power.


Except that Soler DID follow team orders, he just showed he wasn't happy about it. He didn't openly defy team orders like Landa has defied team orders when he was both at Astana AND at Sky.

Nope, most of the time the rider has already signed with another team.


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## ngl (Jan 22, 2002)

KoroninK said:


> Except that Soler DID follow team orders, he just showed he wasn't happy about it. He didn't openly defy team orders like Landa has defied team orders when he was both at Astana AND at Sky.


Well, if openly causing a fuss on camera, giving Quintana a short "token" assistance and then dropping back to be with Valverde isn't defying team orders is ok I guess your definition of defiance is different than mine.


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## coldash (May 7, 2012)

KoroninK said:


> I think Movistar just proved why teams do not send riders who are leaving the team to big races after July.


Just read that Movistar are sending both Carapaz and Landa to the Tour of Britain. Maybe two domestiques will protest at having to support them. 

It isn’t a major race but can be surprisingly demanding even when it isn’t raining.


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## upstateSC-rider (Aug 21, 2004)

Wow! I saw a 26% pitch for a few seconds today...Crazy climb.
When Quintana accelerated I thought, and hoped to be honest, that he had something but somehow Valverde managed to out-climb many pure climbers.
Is it too late to change my podium picks to Roglic, Pogacar, Lopez? 
Pretty weird to not see anyone from Skyneos in the Top 25 in GC.


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## KoroninK (Aug 9, 2010)

coldash said:


> Just read that Movistar are sending both Carapaz and Landa to the Tour of Britain. Maybe two domestiques will protest at having to support them.
> 
> It isn’t a major race but can be surprisingly demanding even when it isn’t raining.


Somehow Carapaz had Visa issues and couldn't get to the Tour of Britain. Landa and Amador are apparently co-leaders there. However, at least half the team sent to that race isn't returning to Movistar next season.


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## coldash (May 7, 2012)

Yes, just read that Carapaz can’t make it. Presumably Ineos will sort this out next year. I saw a recording of stage 1 of the ToB and it wasn’t raining!

Meanwhile back in the Vuelta, yesterday was a lucky escape for the GC leaders. I would hate a pile up to affect the outcome of the race


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## KoroninK (Aug 9, 2010)

Glad the GC leaders got way without many issues. Pogacar and Valverde both went down with just minor bruises and scrapes. 

Today, according to several people, when Soler was called back by the team car to help Valverde, he was first asked if he could win the stage and when he responded no he was asked if he would then drop back to help Valverde. 

Obviously things can change, but so far Valverde and Roglic appear to be the strongest and the race is for the final podium spot.

One other side note, the media covering la Vuelta has started calling Valverde "Grandpa".


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## upstateSC-rider (Aug 21, 2004)

Another day, another maiden GT stage win from the break, great racing from Kuss and Fugslang.


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## il sogno (Jul 15, 2002)

Chapeau, Fuglsang.


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## ngl (Jan 22, 2002)

One thing is for sure, it's going to be an exciting last few days.

One has to ask themselves:
- Did they leave enough in the gas tank for the last couple of climbs?
- Will anyone crash and burn?
- Will an alliance be formed?
- Will any previous bad deeds go unpunished?


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## ngl (Jan 22, 2002)

Great tactics from Movistar again today, or, was it just Quintana and company putting the screws to Valverde and company for earlier bad deeds? Maybe we'll find out during tomorrow's stage.


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## coldash (May 7, 2012)

Very fast stage. Gilbert said he was using a 54 x 11 and was spinning out on the flat. The breakaway were hitting 75kph at times (on the flat). What could have turned out to be a fairly boring stage became a bit of a memorable one.


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## Marc (Jan 23, 2005)

I'll admit I thought this would be another boring parade sprint stage. 50kph average over 220kms...with speeds touching 80kph on flattish bits (the racers were legally speeding on many of those roads). Eurosport had to dump the posted schedule to start covering early, even.

Hell for leather.

Well done Gilbert.



ngl said:


> Great tactics from Movistar again today, or, was it just Quintana and company putting the screws to Valverde and company for earlier bad deeds? Maybe we'll find out during tomorrow's stage.


Great tactics from Movistar, who was attacking their own (probably soon to be ex-)leader? Yes, Quintana held on just barely to the break and gained buckets of time on the GC--but that was only shear dumb luck rather than intent....Movistar were driving things on like maniacs and Quintana was alone at the back of that break.

For a team that claims that Quintana is their leader and that things are hunky-dory, they aren't showing it


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## aclinjury (Sep 12, 2011)

Pulling the red jersey to attack your own guy. I'm officially done with Moviestar. Will never root for any one of them again. What a pissy team attitude. Sure one could argue that Quintana will be leaving Moviestar, but them Spaniards show the world they're pretty petty


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## il sogno (Jul 15, 2002)

aclinjury said:


> Pulling the red jersey to attack your own guy. I'm officially done with Moviestar. Will never root for any one of them again. What a pissy team attitude. Sure one could argue that Quintana will be leaving Moviestar, but them Spaniards show the world they're pretty petty


Were you watching the NBCSN coverage with Matthew Keenan doing the commentating? They were speculating that Moviestar chased to shred Roglic's teammates out the back; to isolate Roglic and waste his team for tomorrow's stage.


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## den bakker (Nov 13, 2004)

ogre said:


> Carapaz is out due to an injury at an international criterium. Valverde has said that he is riding for Quintana.


That statement from Valverde did not age well


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## ngl (Jan 22, 2002)

il sogno said:


> Were you watching the NBCSN coverage with Matthew Keenan doing the commentating? They were speculating that Moviestar chased to shred Roglic's teammates out the back; to isolate Roglic and waste his team for tomorrow's stage.


But Roglic's teammates just had to join the gruppetto and avoid the cut-off once they were shredded out the back then save their legs for Thursday. They are now a lot fresher for Stage 18 rather than the two camps in Movistar who worked hard in both groups during Stage 17 wouldn't you say? 

Sure they isolated Roglic, but so what? Roglic just had to sit on Valverde's wheel for the remainder of the stage and two things are pretty certain: Valverde is not strong enough to drop Roglic on the flats and Valverde is NOT going to lose out to Quintana. 

I can't wait to see what Movistar's tactics will be for Stage 18. Quintana and Valverde will be fighting each other for domination while Pogacar and Lopez will wait for an opportunity to win podium spots.


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## KoroninK (Aug 9, 2010)

ngl said:


> But Roglic's teammates just had to join the gruppetto and avoid the cut-off once they were shredded out the back then save their legs for Thursday. They are now a lot fresher for Stage 18 rather than the two camps in Movistar who worked hard in both groups during Stage 17 wouldn't you say?
> 
> Sure they isolated Roglic, but so what? Roglic just had to sit on Valverde's wheel for the remainder of the stage and two things are pretty certain: Valverde is not strong enough to drop Roglic on the flats and Valverde is NOT going to lose out to Quintana.
> 
> I can't wait to see what Movistar's tactics will be for Stage 18. Quintana and Valverde will be fighting each other for domination while Pogacar and Lopez will wait for an opportunity to win podium spots.


Last week Quintana said he was relinquishing leadership to Valverde. Quintana did get into the break, with DQS (I suspect DQS actually planned out what they did yesterday). From what many are saying Movistar went to the front to try to isolate Roglic and they did do that. However, Astana was still there and were more than happy to keep pulling to protect Lopez's hopes of a podium. 
One more thing to consider, at this point in la Vuelta, Valverde has a shot at the podium and if he gets it it's a record. Movistar will do what they can to protect his podium and thus a piece of history.
One more thing, Quintana is showing he's learned how to race in crosswinds, yet it appears it's at the cost of his climbing. Today he lost time in the mountains yet again.
Also remember one other thing. Quintana was the one saying he was sole leader of la Vuelta. Mr Unzue stated that Valverde was free to race for GC, stages or whatever he wished and was not there to help Quintana.


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## ngl (Jan 22, 2002)

KoroninK said:


> From what many are saying Movistar went to the front to try to isolate Roglic and they did do that.


And many others are saying Valverde and company went to the front to chase down Quintana (and protect Valverde's interests) and they certainly did do that. But here is a question for you. What good does it do for Movistar to isolate Roglic if they can't (and didn't) drop him???? As I said before all Roglic has to do (and he did do it) is to sit on Valverde's wheel.



KoroninK said:


> Movistar will do what they can to protect his podium and thus a piece of history.


Bingo. You just answered my question, and unbelievably, Movistar screwed over Quintana to do it.



KoroninK said:


> Mr Unzue stated that Valverde was free to race for GC, stages or whatever he wished and was not there to help Quintana.


Unzue probably did say that. But like most everyone is saying all over the internet; it's a shitty thing to do to drag the red jersey up to your team mate who otherwise may be sitting in red at the end of the stage even if it's only for a short time.


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## coldash (May 7, 2012)

I see Movistar have been at it again - attacking rivals when they have been caught in a crash. Valverde received some direct feedback from the other riders and performed his best sprint of the event when he ran away from the press after the stage. They’ve issued a sort of apology but I don’t think anyone is impressed - or surprised. They’ve done this before and lied about it.


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## KoroninK (Aug 9, 2010)

However, it was Astana who did the vast majority of the work to reduce or hold the time gap. So there's that.

As for why they wanted to drop Roglic's teammate, that's a better question than why did they go to the front, which was to drop them.


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## coldash (May 7, 2012)

This article https://www.cyclingnews.com/news/mo...ta-a-espana-for-racing-on-after-roglic-crash/ details the peloton’s view. Movistar haven’t made too many friends as a result of this.


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## KoroninK (Aug 9, 2010)

They've been a victim of what they did many times in the past. Valverde specifically has been a victim of it. He's the one that eventually overrode his DS to call it off as well. Sanchez has defended the Movistar riders as he said they were just following orders from the team car.

Stage 20 was great. Pogacar earned that last podium spot today. Valverde said after the stage that his radio wasn't working and he had no idea that Pogacar had as much of a lead as he did until the fans started yelling at him on the final climb that he was in danger of losing his podium spot. Roglic rode a very good race to earn the win. I think the final podium is the correct 3 riders as they were the strongest and most consistent throughout the 3 weeks. Valverde has earned several records with this podium. Most Vuelta podiums, most years between first and most recent (or last) podium in any Grand Tour, and most Grand Tour top 10's. Also ties Indurain for most Grand Tour podiums by a Spaniard (with 9). He's the big question is the age difference between Valverde and Pogacar the largest age difference for two podium finishers in a Grand Tour?

I also think this podium is very symbolic of a passing of the torch from Valverde's generation to the next two generations.


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## coldash (May 7, 2012)

KoroninK said:


> They've been a victim of what they did many times in the past. Valverde specifically has been a victim of it.


that doesn't justify their lack of ethics and they have a record of having done this in the past


> He's the one that eventually overrode his DS to call it off as well.


only when he was getting an earful from a variety of riders from different teams. When it all came back together Valverde skulked back to the middle of the peloton and wouldn't make eye contact with his rivals. He knew they had been out of order.


> Sanchez has defended the Movistar riders as he said they were just following orders from the team car.


That has never been an acceptable defence in any sphere.



> Stage 20 was great. Pogacar earned that last podium spot today. Valverde said after the stage that his radio wasn't working and he had no idea that Pogacar had as much of a lead as he did until the fans started yelling at him on the final climb that he was in danger of losing his podium spot. Roglic rode a very good race to earn the win. I think the final podium is the correct 3 riders as they were the strongest and most consistent throughout the 3 weeks. Valverde has earned several records with this podium. Most Vuelta podiums, most years between first and most recent (or last) podium in any Grand Tour, and most Grand Tour top 10's. Also ties Indurain for most Grand Tour podiums by a Spaniard (with 9). He's the big question is the age difference between Valverde and Pogacar the largest age difference for two podium finishers in a Grand Tour?
> 
> I also think this podium is very symbolic of a passing of the torch from Valverde's generation to the next two generations.


Well let's just hope these Vuelta results stand. As for young riders, yes it is good to see them come through but let's give it a couple of years. Sometimes young performance levels don't carry through to later years.

Anyway. it has been a good Vuelta, although a bit unusual in that some of the flat stages were the most exciting. e.g. Gilbert spinning out at 110rpm on a 54x11 on the flat is crazy.


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## den bakker (Nov 13, 2004)

KoroninK said:


> They've been a victim of what they did many times in the past. Valverde specifically has been a victim of it. .


When was that? 
Being in the leaders jersey and attacked while being in an accident. 
Just a couple of the "many" will suffice.


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## KoroninK (Aug 9, 2010)

2012 Vuelta Valverde in leaders jersey, Sky attacks when he was involved in a crash.
2012 Tour Sky attacked as soon as they heard Valverde had a mechanical issue.
Then we have 2015 Giro when Astana attacked Contador, leader, when he had an issue.



Yes it's true that young results often don't translate into a rider have a long career of results. Most riders have around a 5 year time frame to get their results and early riders with great results many times start declining early, while riders who hit their peak in their late 20's are more likely to do well into their early 30's.


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## coldash (May 7, 2012)

KoroninK said:


> 2012 Vuelta Valverde in leaders jersey, Sky attacks when he was involved in a crash.
> 2012 Tour Sky attacked as soon as they heard Valverde had a mechanical issue.
> Then we have 2015 Giro when Astana attacked Contador, leader, when he had an issue.
> .


On the Vuelta example, Sky were at the front and drilling it before Valverde crashed. That is entirely different. 
I can remember one example when Valverde was attacked after a puncture but that was by Vacansoleil and they said quite clearly that it was pay back for a previous unethical attack by Movistar. 

It is odd that it is always Movistar and their tactics that the peloton despise - or maybe it isn’t 

PS I heard that the one reason that Valverde attacked after the crash is because he thought Quintana had come down. Completely untrue of course but given Movistar’s tactics, who knows?

Anyway.... good Vuelta I look forward to seeing the leading riders compete with the likes of Bernal, Dumolin, Froome (maybe - not sure how he will recover and he is getting his old-ish), Yates etc. Should be good


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## ngl (Jan 22, 2002)

KoroninK said:


> 2012 Vuelta Valverde in leaders jersey, Sky attacks when he was involved in a crash.
> 2012 Tour Sky attacked as soon as they heard Valverde had a mechanical issue.
> Then we have 2015 Giro when Astana attacked Contador, leader, when he had an issue.


So now you want to bring up past history to support your case. I have no interest in reviewing past history, but did you ever think that maybe Valverde would have said to himself " gee that hurt my feelings and they were slime balls for doing that to me therefore (being the nice guy that I am) I have to remember to never ever do that to anyone"? No? Obviously neither did Valverde.

Look, we know Valverde has won a Tour and rainbow jersey. Valverde has also doped, cheated, lied and screwed team mates over ...some of which he did during this Vuelta. It's obvious you want to portray Valverde as a superhero but Valverde will always be remembered (by the majority of us) as guy who won a Tour, won a rainbow jersey, a doper, a cheater, a liar and a person who screwed team mates over. You may think otherwise and that's ok, but please don't piss down our backs and tell us it's raining.


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## den bakker (Nov 13, 2004)

KoroninK said:


> 2012 Vuelta Valverde in leaders jersey, Sky attacks when he was involved in a crash.
> 2012 Tour Sky attacked as soon as they heard Valverde had a mechanical issue.
> Then we have 2015 Giro when Astana attacked Contador, leader, when he had an issue.
> 
> ...


first one as pointed out was a crash after attack was made. 
Second one, two riders had the yellow jersey 2012, Cancellara, Wiggins. Not sure what you hope to bring up with that. 
I had no idea Contador was actually Valverde. He must be unless you would not have brought Contador up would you?


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## KoroninK (Aug 9, 2010)

2015 Giro is an example of a team doing it and a team that is not named Movistar, to show that teams do this and it's not something new or something that only Movistar does. 2017 Giro, yes Movistar did do that to Sky and they stated afterwards that it payback to Sky for what Sky had done to Valverde. It seems that yes there is an unwritten rule, but that it does get ignored from by multiple teams for different reasons.

Now not pulling the cars so riders can use the caravan to catch up is actually within the rules, because the rule about pulling cars is specifically for only when riders are dropped not when riders get dropped due to mechanicals or crashes. 

As for the doping, well if you don't think the entire peloton was doping when Valverde was a new pro then you're naive. It would also be wrong to assume he's doing anything differently today than anyone else in the peloton and would actually be less likely to be pushing the limits as much as riders who don't have a ban.

As for this Vuelta, it's not his fault Quintana didn't have the legs, nor is it his fault Quintana had a very bad ITT.


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## KoroninK (Aug 9, 2010)

Congratulations to Roglic, Valverde, and Pogacar on their podium positions. They were the 3 strongest and most consistent riders throughout the Vuelta. On one podium we see the past (Valverde), the present (Roglic) and the future (Pogacar) of the sport together. For Valverde this podium sets several records. The most all-time Vuelta podiums (7), largest number of years between first and most recent (or last) Grand Tour podium (16), most all-time Grand Tour top 10's (19), and ties Indurain for most all-time Grand Tour podiums for a Spaniard (9). Also interesting the age differences between all 3 of the podium finishers with Valverde at 39, Roglic at 29 and Pogacar at 20, we have 3 different generations of riders on this podium. 
Also congratulations to all the different winners and all the riders who finished la Vuelta.


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## den bakker (Nov 13, 2004)

KoroninK said:


> 2015 Giro is an example of a team doing it and a team that is not named Movistar, to show that teams do this and it's not something new or something that only Movistar does. 2017 Giro, yes Movistar did do that to Sky and they stated afterwards that it payback to Sky for what Sky had done to Valverde. It seems that yes there is an unwritten rule, but that it does get ignored from by multiple teams for different reasons.


in other words: "They've been a victim of what they did many times in the past. Valverde specifically has been a victim of it. " seems to be unfounded.


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## KoroninK (Aug 9, 2010)

Valverde today (while still in Madrid doing some sponsor and media stuff) was specifically asked about what happened with the team attacking after the crash. His response was that the order was from the DS and he didn't like it and spent some time arguing with the DS. Then debated about what to do and what the worst thing that could happen if he overrode the DS's orders and finally decided he'd had enough and called it off.


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## coldash (May 7, 2012)

KoroninK said:


> Valverde today (while still in Madrid doing some sponsor and media stuff) was specifically asked about what happened with the team attacking after the crash. His response was that the order was from the DS and he didn't like it and spent some time arguing with the DS. Then debated about what to do and what the worst thing that could happen if he overrode the DS's orders and finally decided he'd had enough and called it off.


Looks like the PR team went into the Red on this one and have done a bit of retrospective whitewashing. The peloton know the real story.


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