# Please help- Race in 1 week and 585 headset plug not working!!



## weeve (Dec 4, 2007)

Can anyone help. Packed the bike up and released the bolt. Now when go back to install the plug doesnt expand sufficiently to be tight in steerer with the 5mm so you cant then add any compression with the 6mm.

Felt inside..very slight roughness but nothing to indicate the expansion bolt wount stick if it widened further. Have a race been training for all year and now potentially no bike as there are no Look dealers here in Stockholm. 

Anyone have any words of wisdom? Is there another brand headset or plug I can buy? please? anyone!? [email protected]%£!!!:mad2:


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## kretzel (Aug 1, 2007)

*headset plug*

This happened on one of the demo bikes at our studio, unfortunately I could not get it to work & I just swapped out for the Hope plug that was in my MTB and it worked fine. I think the problem was that the 2 wedge pieces were too thick and they bottomed out on each other before expanding enough to give any grip. 

I suppose you could try wrapping one or 2 of the four external pieces with a thin piece of masking tape to make them bigger. Carefully lay it under the little rubber o-ring that holds them together. That would be my McGruber solution if I were stuck before a race...

Sorry I don't have any better ideas... 

Good luck,


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## weeve (Dec 4, 2007)

thanks...tried the tape thing...doesnt really work and leaves play in the fork...300km race and dont fancy it getting worse on route.

I have access to a regular bike shop monday - my mtb (also with me) just had regular star bolt so no help. Assume plug styles common for carbon forks anyway...is there anything special I need to know or will all 1&1/8'ths fit? (first bike) so something I am likely to be able to get do you reckon?


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## C-40 (Feb 4, 2004)

*info..*



weeve said:


> thanks...tried the tape thing...doesnt really work and leaves play in the fork...300km race and dont fancy it getting worse on route.
> 
> I have access to a regular bike shop monday - my mtb (also with me) just had regular star bolt so no help. Assume plug styles common for carbon forks anyway...is there anything special I need to know or will all 1&1/8'ths fit? (first bike) so something I am likely to be able to get do you reckon?


I assume that you have the newer style plug, where a 5mm hex wrench tightens the expanding plug, then the threaded top cap threads onto the plug. The plug never needs to be removed. I would wrap it with at least one thickness of soda can aluminum and try to tighten the plug into place. With enough layers of shim, it's got to tighten up eventually.

This is what you need:

http://www.coloradocyclist.com/product/item/FSAJXYGK

Keep in mind that the stem holds the headset adjustment, not the top cap. If you can get is tight enough to eliminate the play in the headset bearings, tighten the stem and youlre good to go.


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## weeve (Dec 4, 2007)

yes..the double allen key adjuster is needed. Just tried with a standard Pro expanded from a local shop and doesnt work...no additional compresssion so just tightening started to trash the steerer. Stopped that before all too late I hope

Wrapped each segment in tape until fits in tube..now managed to get it to stick (just) but cant find any balance between the rocking of the steerer in the headtube or so tight cant move the bars side to side....having a great couple of days...love bikes.......dooh

taken apart few times/regreased etc but nothing appears wrong with the headset and the bike hasnt done many miles.

more top tips welcome ..and thanks again to those replying


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## C-40 (Feb 4, 2004)

*thoughts....*



> Just tried with a standard Pro expanded from a local shop and doesnt work...no additional compresssion so just tightening started to trash the steerer. Stopped that before all too late I hope.


I don't understand the statement above. If you installed a new plug, it either stays in place or it doesn't with a moderate torque on the expander bolt. Why would "just tightening" start to trash the steerer?

You may have a trashed headset if you can't get it adjusted. An integrated headset is not hard to adjust. All you do is tighten the top cap until you get some additional drag as the fork is turned, then back the top cap up 1/8 to 1/4 turn. Integrated headsets require a significant torque on the top cap - up to 5Nm.

I assume that you are leaving the stem clamp bolts loose while you're doing all this and you have a 2-3mm gap between the top of the stem and steering tube, so the bearings can be adjusted? You didn't take the top section off the headset and forget to install some of those thin spacer shims? If the headset top section touches the head tube, you'll never get the bearing adjusted either. There has to be a small gap. That's why headsets come with several .25mm shims. The fork also has to have a gap between it and the head tube. I can't think of any reason that would change.

http://www.parktool.com/repair/readhowto.asp?id=65

I had another thought, that maybe you're not installing the expanding plug to the proper depth. If it's too high, you might actually have the top cap skirt hitting the expander, before it can tighten against the top of the stem.


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## weeve (Dec 4, 2007)

appreciate the time to comment

Installed from factory the thin shims werent in (and I havent had a problem) and actually they arent in the Mrs's bike either (same model) I had the same thought but err...both the other bike and shims are in the house about 2000km away.

The expansion bolt just about holds (taped up to fatten) but then when you apply a little force to the top cap it sharts to bring it up (ie no longer holding). Might keep adding tape/foil as next step but having 'mixed..' results. Stem loose etc as it should be when doing all this..

The IS headset still looks good and all the split rings etc there... guess its a combination of dogdy cap and no shims. 

Current option is ride with some stiffness in rotation or a slight loose headset. Clearly the latter isnt an option. Apart from steering issues if too tight any idea whether this will fxxx it up? The race is on the flat so no nasty descent to worry about. 
Dont suppose those shims come with any after market headset? Will ask at the shop but not holding my breath.
thanks again


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## weeve (Dec 4, 2007)

oh sorry ...didnt reply re: new plug.....held to a point then didnt and as it was torqued up it it just span and I stopped before digging out the steerer carbon


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## C-40 (Feb 4, 2004)

*more...*

That fact that you can tighten the top cap enough to hinder rotation of the fork means that the expanding plug is holding well enough, at least for awhile. The inability to get the correct preload on the bearings suggests a problem with the bearings. I'd just buy a whole new headset. Any IS standard model will do (assuming a late model LOOK frame).

While the headset is out, remove the bearings seats and inspect for damage (frame and seats). Grease all sufaces when reinstalling.


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## weeve (Dec 4, 2007)

http://www.chainreactioncycles.com/Categories.aspx?CategoryID=203

seems to be lots of IS models ...any idea whats best?


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## weeve (Dec 4, 2007)

http://www.chainreactioncycles.com/Categories.aspx?CategoryID=203

guess this....


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## C-40 (Feb 4, 2004)

*Is-8*



weeve said:


> http://www.chainreactioncycles.com/Categories.aspx?CategoryID=203
> 
> seems to be lots of IS models ...any idea whats best?


I'd get the IS-8.


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## weeve (Dec 4, 2007)

Thread officially closed....C40/Kretzel I owe you both a pint. Stripped the headset for 5th time degreased inside and out (agin) then started again (again, again) . Compression cap is now wrapped in sticky plasters and I cadged a (bit too fat but workable) alloy ring to replace shims....and ...wait for it.....we're back in business  

Thanks folks...go and pat yourselves on the back for making someones day


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## phew52 (Aug 1, 2006)

*Grind away a bit of the small diameter ends of the inner cone shaped wedge nuts*

Had the same problem.

The genius at my LBS ground away just a tiny bit of the small ends of the inner cone shaped wedge nuts so that their large ends could be brought closer together forcing diameter of the outer cylinder wider to make a tighter fit with the inside of the steerer.


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## kretzel (Aug 1, 2007)

*sweet*



weeve said:


> Thread officially closed....C40/Kretzel I owe you both a pint. Stripped the headset for 5th time degreased inside and out (agin) then started again (again, again) . Compression cap is now wrapped in sticky plasters and I cadged a (bit too fat but workable) alloy ring to replace shims....and ...wait for it.....we're back in business
> 
> Thanks folks...go and pat yourselves on the back for making someones day


good luck in the race and if you're ever in Norcal I'll take you up on the pint after a ride to the coast. 

phew52 sounds like you latched onto the same wedge tolerance issue I suspected, thanks for that info as well. 

cheers,


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## lemans003 (Apr 24, 2007)

*Grind the expansion cones/wedges.*

Phew52...That is exactly what I did to solve the problem and it works perfectly. It seems that the flaw in the design is that the expansion cones/wedges are to tall and they bottom out on each other. Grinding a small amount of material on the small area of the cones, thus decreasing their height, will allow for greater expansion. :thumbsup:


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