# Gunnar vs Surly



## spepic (Jan 25, 2007)

I have an old road bike with an Ultegra 9 speed that is screaming to be converted to a cylcocross bike. All I need is a used frame. I see the bike as a combination commuter, summer touring bike, and something to get my feet wet with cylocross. So rack mounts and bottle cages are a must.

I have heard great things about the Gunnar Crosshair frames, but after scouring ebay for a year I seem no closer to scoring a used frame. I won one last week and had it taken away because the guy dropped it and chipped it when he was packing it. After a year of looking, that hurt.

I really like the gunnar frames, but should I be expanding my horizons and considering something else?

I want to pick up something nice, but considering the bikes purpose maybe I should be expanding my horizons. Suggestions? Any other places to find a used frame?


----------



## FatTireFred (Jan 31, 2005)

offer to buy the dropped one at a lower price and repaint?


----------



## seat_boy (Dec 24, 2006)

I had a Crosshairs. It rode great, light and springy, but wasn't great as a touring bike. It was wobbly even with a moderate load. I now have a Crosscheck. It doesn't ride quite as well, but fits better, fits bigger tires, and is much easier to make a single speed out of. I haven't toured with it, but many people have, and it seems to do OK. I couldn't see trading in my CC for another Gunnar, given the cost difference and the great design features of the Surly.


----------



## spepic (Jan 25, 2007)

FatTireFred said:


> offer to buy the dropped one at a lower price and repaint?


I thought of that, and seller offered to drop $40, shipping was $35. The bidding was up there because it was billed as a mint frame. The special touch up paint seemed to go for between $30 and $50. Repainting one section costs $150, the $40 price drop didn't even touch what it would cost to repair.

I thought of just having a local body shop fix it, but the price really went up because of the frames condition. Huge chips on the top tube would have probably reduced the final winning bid by at least $100 probably more. $40 didn't come close to covering the aggravation or cost of the repairs.

It was a disappointment. Psyched i finally found one, then an email the seller dropped it an hour later :-(

I probably dodged a bullet, but now I am back to looking for an all purpose frame.


----------



## spepic (Jan 25, 2007)

seat_boy said:


> I had a Crosshairs. It rode great, light and springy, but wasn't great as a touring bike. It was wobbly even with a moderate load. I now have a Crosscheck. It doesn't ride quite as well, but fits better, fits bigger tires, and is much easier to make a single speed out of. I haven't toured with it, but many people have, and it seems to do OK. I couldn't see trading in my CC for another Gunnar, given the cost difference and the great design features of the Surly.


Are there any crossframes that work well as a touring bike?

The plan really is for it to act as an early spring/foul weather training bike., commuter, touring with the GF, and trying some cross races next year.


----------



## single1x1 (Mar 26, 2005)

I've had my cross check for several years, and have really liked it, first as a SS racer-that sometimes was fixed/even raced fixed two years, and now it has been just a geared commuter/all purpose bike that has also been raced once or twice with gears, it's obviously not light, but fits me well 6ft-34"inseam 56cm frame with a 110 stem, and rides nice and predictably even with a load in the panniers. Surly also now makes the long haul trucker, but I think the cross check is better/ you could always put a touring fork on a cross check if you want a front rack mount


----------



## wvucyclist (Sep 6, 2007)

As much as I love gunnar, I have to agree that the Surly will probably be better due to it's versatility. The gunnar is more racy, it only fits 38c tires (see my post about fixing that) and has a lighter, less solid ride, which is great for racing, it's fast and fun, but not so great for touring and commuting, though it's been done.


----------



## tihsepa (Nov 27, 2008)

I love my Surly just because of its versatility. You can do with it whatever you want. I have done some touring on it as well as SS and geared cross. It will do whatever you want it to do. 
That being said. I do want a Gunnar just for the road.


----------



## beaker (Feb 2, 2005)

*Pake C'mute?*

It's been mentioned here a couple of time recently, and I think there is some place that was selling frame and fork ~$250. Check it:

http://www.pakebikes.com/pakemute.html

Kind of like the Cross Check, but a little cheaper (price and manufacture).

Don't forget about the Some Double Cross as well.


----------



## MShaw (Jun 7, 2003)

I like my Crosshairs, but haven't toured on it.

I HAVE mtn biked on it. I HAVE done fast training (road) rides on it.

Does lots of stuff well.

M


----------



## zombinate (Apr 7, 2009)

so my buddy Bob used his Crosshairs to tour from Homer Alaska to Key West Florida. I have no personal experience with it, but I think that we can classify the bike as a tour friendly ride. Write up by Gunnar Here:

http://www.waterfordbikes.com/gunnar/galleryshow.php?rg=Y&rgid=170


----------



## jrm (Dec 23, 2001)

*SOMA Fabricaters Double Cross Disc*



spepic said:


> Are there any crossframes that work well as a touring bike?
> 
> The plan really is for it to act as an early spring/foul weather training bike., commuter, touring with the GF, and trying some cross races next year.


Fun bike. i was drwn to this brand-model because i liked the geometry. It fits me well. I have mine set up for trail riding,commuting and do some road ride on it. Mismatch of parts kona take off CF fork, ultegra/OP rims, FSA energy compact, Midge bar, sunrace frictions, and full v brakes..


----------



## MarkG2 (Mar 21, 2004)

Go for the Gunnar! 2 reasons

1. great bike. I love mine!
2. Made in the USA, buying products made in the USA is our best economic stimulus plan!


----------



## cs1 (Sep 16, 2003)

MarkG2 said:


> Go for the Gunnar! 2 reasons
> 
> 1. great bike. I love mine!
> 2. Made in the USA, buying products made in the USA is our best economic stimulus plan!


3rd reason: Gunnar's quality is way better than Surly. Surly is using a generic 4130 type of steel. Gunnar uses True Temper. The Gunnar is basically a TIG welded Waterford. It's hand made and painted. If you can afford it, buy the Gunnar.


----------



## Blatz (Mar 8, 2010)

The only bad thing I`ve herd about Gunnar is the paint.


----------



## yo mamma (Aug 10, 2009)

spepic said:


> I thought of that, and seller offered to drop $40, shipping was $35. The bidding was up there because it was billed as a mint frame. The special touch up paint seemed to go for between $30 and $50. Repainting one section costs $150, the $40 price drop didn't even touch what it would cost to repair.
> 
> I thought of just having a local body shop fix it, but the price really went up because of the frames condition. Huge chips on the top tube would have probably reduced the final winning bid by at least $100 probably more. $40 didn't come close to covering the aggravation or cost of the repairs.
> 
> ...


After one 'cross ride you'd likely have more paint damage than what was incurred in the "dropping" of the frame. Besides, who bids up a used steel 'cross bike because it's "mint"? It's not like it's a vintage Colnago w/ original Molteni paint scheme or something. You could get the entire frame powdercoated for about $100 and never have to worry about scratches again.


----------



## yo mamma (Aug 10, 2009)

spepic said:


> Are there any crossframes that work well as a touring bike?
> 
> The plan really is for it to act as an early spring/foul weather training bike., commuter, touring with the GF, and trying some cross races next year.


The Lemond Poprad/Fisher Presidio frames would work well for your needs.


----------



## FatTireFred (Jan 31, 2005)

yo mamma said:


> After one 'cross ride you'd likely have more paint damage than what was incurred in the "dropping" of the frame. Besides, who bids up a used steel 'cross bike because it's "mint"? It's not like it's a vintage Colnago w/ original Molteni paint scheme or something. You could get the entire frame powdercoated for about $100 and never have to worry about scratches again.




a 'cross ride doesn't nec mean you beat the snot out of the frame... and powder isn't scratchproof. more durable, yes, but it can be scratched up


----------



## yo mamma (Aug 10, 2009)

FatTireFred said:


> a 'cross ride doesn't nec mean you beat the snot out of the frame... and powder isn't scratchproof. more durable, yes, but it can be scratched up


I said "likely", as in "probably" or perhaps "may" do damage to the frame. Not "definitely". The point was that giving up on the auction over a scratch seemed unnecessary, since it will eventually get scratched anyway.


----------



## FatTireFred (Jan 31, 2005)

yo mamma said:


> I said "likely", as in "probably" or perhaps "may" do damage to the frame. Not "definitely". The point was that giving up on the auction over a scratch seemed unnecessary, since it will eventually get scratched anyway.




"After one 'cross ride you'd likely/probably/may have more paint damage than what was incurred in the "dropping" of the frame." still doubtful of that statement, unless the first ride involves a crash... besides, we have no idea what kind of damage the bike sustained, and as was already explained the costs don't work out for the op/auction winner


----------



## Blatz (Mar 8, 2010)

I think Gunnars are great bikes I considered one. But I have no idea why the paint job is always an issue with them From a crash or normal use. Speedgoat said they won`t frame prep Gunnars because of issues with the paint during prep process


----------



## Pegorider (Nov 2, 2008)

*Go to Bonkown right now*

http://www.bonktown.com/?CMP_ID=ODAL_FFP9001&mv_pc=r1005


----------



## Henry Chinaski (Feb 3, 2004)

I was in the same spot four years ago: used Crosshairs vs. new Cross Check. I got tired of searching for a used Crosshairs in my size and anyway I'm not a huge fan of buying used so I got the Surly frameset at a very good price from my LBS. No regrets. A very versatile frame at a great price with a very high resale value if you ever decide to sell it. Now, it's impossible to compare a new Gunnar to the new Surly. The Gunnar is just a nicer, higher quality frame. The Surly is made of basic 4130 with the ride quality of lead pipe. For my purposes, though, the design and geometry of the Surly is better, so my next bike will probably be a custom frame with very similar design/geometry to the Surly (just with a bit more bb drop and a slightly taller head tube).


----------



## FatTireFred (Jan 31, 2005)

Henry Chinaski said:


> The Gunnar is just a nicer, higher quality frame.


absolutely!





Henry Chinaski said:


> The Surly is made of basic 4130 with the ride quality of lead pipe.


but come on, I wouldn't go that far... if you want gas pipe ride quality, I invite you to test drive my bianchi san jose


----------



## tihsepa (Nov 27, 2008)

BTW, Both of my Surlys ride fantastic. Just my opinion though.


----------



## yo mamma (Aug 10, 2009)

FatTireFred said:


> "After one 'cross ride you'd likely/probably/may have more paint damage than what was incurred in the "dropping" of the frame." still doubtful of that statement, unless the first ride involves a crash... besides, we have no idea what kind of damage the bike sustained, and as was already explained the costs don't work out for the op/auction winner


You're right, you win. I'm not going to argue with you.


----------



## MShaw (Jun 7, 2003)

Blatz said:


> The only bad thing I`ve herd about Gunnar is the paint.


Mine's a leetle bit soft, but otherwise :thumb

I got the metallic green ?gangrene? color offered a few years ago. Don't think I've seen another quite my color yet. Don't see many Gunnars to start with, so...

M


----------



## TrekJeff (Mar 14, 2007)

Gunnars are great frames, but it's hard to touch the versatility of a CC. Been rolling on mine for over three years and havn't had one regret.


----------



## offrhodes2 (Jul 1, 2003)

beaker said:


> Don't forget about the Some Double Cross as well.


I love my Soma Double Cross. I race it and ride it on singletrack, but have not tried loaded touring with it.


----------



## commutenow (Sep 26, 2004)

Well I have had a Crosscheck, and still own an LHT and now own a San Jose and actually all three bikes are fine and all three bikes are versitile. If you have the money for a Gunnar I imagine it will be fine. The paint is very durable on all three bikes I mentioned.


----------

