# TdF'15 - Stage 19 - Discussion and Spoilers



## LostViking (Jul 18, 2008)

​
*Stage 18 Re-cap:*

Well, more of the same really, a few faints but no sustained attacks on the Yellow Jersey. Some good individual rides but nothing remarkable. Fuglsang (Astana) and a Moto driver had a disagreement on lane choice - Fuglsang lost that debate. Nice stage win for Romain Bardet (Ag2r) though. Seems this Tour is settling into a cozy routine and tea and crumpets will be served shortly...
or perhaps cheese with a nice Pinot Noir?

*GC Standings after Stage 18:*
1. Christopher Froome (Sky)
2. Nairo Quintana (Movistar) 00:03:10
3. Alejandro Valverde (Movistar) 00:04:09
4. Geraint Thomas (Sky) 00:06:34
5. Alberto Contador (Tinkoff-Saxo) 00:06:40
6. Robert Gesink (LottoNL-Jumbo) 00:07:39
7. Vincenzo Nibali (Astana) 00:08:04
8. Mathias Frank (IAM Cycling) 00:08:47
9. Bauke Mollema (Trek) 00:12:06
10. Romain Bardet (Ag2r-La Mondiale) 00:13:02

*Stage 19:* Saint-Jean-de-Maurienne to La Toussuire - Les Sybelles, 138km

Some nice climbing here, most notably the HC Col de la Croix de Fer - the most likely place for some separation between our top ten riders, and a nice Cat One uphill finish on Le Corbier. I'd like to see J-Rod fly up this finish, but I suspect to see a Sky or Tinkoff rider take this stage - Thomas and Majka being possible.

*Stage 19 Profile:*


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## ibericb (Oct 28, 2014)

A short stage, but a really tough climbing sequence tomorrow, ending in a finish atop a cat 1 climb.

Tomorrow will be about who recovers best after today. Movistar is hungry, and it appeared to me that Froome as on the edge today. I'm looking for Quintana and Valverde to attack early on the final climb. If they do, will both Porte and Thomas be there to help Froome?


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## joeinchi (Sep 24, 2010)

Looking forward to this stage.

No one simply wants a podium spot. It's the yellow jersey or die trying.


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## il sogno (Jul 15, 2002)

I expect a huge attack from Contador.


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## coldash (May 7, 2012)

It has started and it is raining.


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## ibericb (Oct 28, 2014)

il sogno said:


> I expect a huge attack from Contador.


Will that be before or after his crash on a major descent?


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## Corsaire (Jun 2, 2006)

il sogno said:


> I expect a huge attack from Contador.


He just doesn't have it for this Tour, he's proven time and time again he can't, unless he got last night the "hot sauce" the UK "Postals" got, then he may be onto something.
Froome has it in the bag as far as I see it, he beat everybody in the pharma dept.


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## PJay (May 28, 2004)

Froome's escorts are finally getting ground up, and Froome finally showing brief moments of cyborg malfunction. If Froome gets cracked today, we have a contest for tomorrow, on the formidable and renown Alp D'Huez, and this Tour, in my opinion, watching from my armchair, gets vaulted to the realms of Epic TdF tours.


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## coldash (May 7, 2012)

Froome had a mechanical (stone) in rear brake and Nibali attacked. Froome got back on but Nibali is hunting Rolland for the stage.


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## joeinchi (Sep 24, 2010)

PJay said:


> in my opinion, watching from my armchair, gets vaulted to the realms of Epic TdF tours.


Agree. That would rock. 

I think the pharma rumors _might be_ having an impact, as well. While chasing back after a minor mechanical, Froome was greeted by a white-haired gent as he approached the summit of Croix de Fer. The (non)fan actually stood in front of Froome and was quite forthcoming with his displeasure.

Not the actual guy but similar to the view from Froome's saddle while he fights to hang on.


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## dnice (Jul 12, 2012)

so, what do we think of nibali's attack? fair, or not?


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## PJay (May 28, 2004)

was their rain earlier? it seems like the riders are mis-judging the road surface a fair amt.


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## joeinchi (Sep 24, 2010)

dnice said:


> so, what do we think of nibali's attack? fair, or not?


Not as bad as it seemed. I think most expected him to attack and get a gap before the descent. It was the opening he was looking for.

If the attack affected overall classification, like when AC attacked Andy Schleck a few years back after he dropped his chain, then I'd say it wasn't very sporting nor consistent with the gentlemen's agreement regarding such matters.

You?


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## love4himies (Jun 12, 2012)

Poor Bardet.


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## dnice (Jul 12, 2012)

so, nibali offered stage win in exchange for collaboration, it appears.


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## Marc (Jan 23, 2005)

love4himies said:


> Poor Bardet.


Not a good FD day. All around.


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## joeinchi (Sep 24, 2010)

According to Movistar, Quintana "not 100%."


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## coldash (May 7, 2012)

Contador switched bikes before the final climb. Maybe he'll motor up it and get some time back.


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## PJay (May 28, 2004)

the final 2 miles continue uphill until they finally crest in town, and the final 2 miles continue to be pretty twisty - the twists would slow down the peloton, so Nibali has as much setup as you could want to vault into 3rd place. He needs another half minute which is a LOT.


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## dnice (Jul 12, 2012)

wow, bertie cracked. this is looking very good for nibbles.


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## joeinchi (Sep 24, 2010)

Attack from NQ (not sick). 15 sec gap with 2 miles remaining.


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## dnice (Jul 12, 2012)

no more stone faces--nairo, nibbles, everyone showing the face of suffering.


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## joeinchi (Sep 24, 2010)

"like squeezing a dry sponge" according to Phil


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## coldash (May 7, 2012)

Looking forward to seeing Movistar releasing Quintana's power data for that climb.


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## coldash (May 7, 2012)

joeinchi said:


> Not as bad as it seemed. I think most expected him to attack and get a gap before the descent. It was the opening he was looking for.
> 
> If the attack affected overall classification, like when AC attacked Andy Schleck a few years back after he dropped his chain, then I'd say it wasn't very sporting nor consistent with the gentlemen's agreement regarding such matters.
> 
> You?


On the replay, you can see Nibali see Froome slow down, watch Froome look at his brake and as soon as he Froome stops, Nibali attacks.... but that's racing.


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## joeinchi (Sep 24, 2010)

Great stage. Nib's takes the win. NQ gains 32 sec on Froome, now trailing by 2:38.

How much did that take out of Froome? Quintana? Can't wait to find out.


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## coldash (May 7, 2012)

joeinchi said:


> Agree. That would rock.
> 
> I think the pharma rumors _might be_ having an impact, as well.


On the slowmo replay, it shows someone spitting in Froome's face as he was trying to keep a small gap with Quintana.

Great advert for the sport.


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## coldash (May 7, 2012)

Deleted


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## dnice (Jul 12, 2012)

coldash said:


> On the slowmo replay, it shows someone spitting in Froome's face as he was trying to keep a small gap with Quintana.
> 
> Great advert for the sport.


unreal!


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## coldash (May 7, 2012)

Here it is

Gfycat - jiffier gifs through HTML5 Video Conversion. Fast, simple gif hosting without size limits.

Makes you despair.


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## ibericb (Oct 28, 2014)

joeinchi said:


> "like squeezing a dry sponge" according to Phil


Best comment he's made all Tour. Loved it, and at the time it was appropriate.


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## ibericb (Oct 28, 2014)

joeinchi said:


> Great stage. Nib's takes the win. NQ gains 32 sec on Froome, now trailing by 2:38.
> 
> How much did that take out of Froome? Quintana? Can't wait to find out.


That finish took a lot out of the top 6. Again, it will be about who recovers the best tonight, and can stay out of trouble tomorrow. Tomorrow is another b*tchin' climb day - two H cat climbs, first over Col de la Croix, then finishing up at Alp d'Huez. The same battle again would not surprise me. If Froome can avoid problems, and stay as strong as he did today, then I believe only NQ has a chance to beat him in the overall, but doubt he can do it. Valverde ended up back 5' 35", Nibali 6' 44", Contador slipped to 7' 56". If nobody cracks, crashes, or falls ill, there should be a good race for 3rd, if nothing else.


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## dnice (Jul 12, 2012)

so, froome confirms that he is offended by the timing of the nibali attack.


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## coldash (May 7, 2012)

dnice said:


> so, froome confirms that he is offended by the timing of the nibali attack.


Many people would be. Whether they are right to be in another matter. Look at the slowmo. What makes it worse is that Nibali denied it.


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## love4himies (Jun 12, 2012)

coldash said:


> On the slowmo replay, it shows someone spitting in Froome's face as he was trying to keep a small gap with Quintana.
> 
> Great advert for the sport.


Some people are pigs.


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## ibericb (Oct 28, 2014)

dnice said:


> so, froome confirms that he is offended by the timing of the nibali attack.


Froome had a mechanical. I doubt Nibali slowed to diagnose it. Had Nibali had a flat I'm sure Froome would have pedaled right past him without blinking an eye. It's racing - Nibali played it smart, doesn't much matter who didn't like it. If Froome truly finds that offensive, he needs to grow some thicker skin.


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## Marc (Jan 23, 2005)

Good news, Bardet at least keeps his polka-dots. That would have majorly sucked if he lost that due to a Di2 or EPS FUBAR. Only 3 points, but that is enough.


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## proclaimer888 (Jul 24, 2010)

coldash said:


> Here it is
> 
> Gfycat - jiffier gifs through HTML5 Video Conversion. Fast, simple gif hosting without size limits.
> 
> Makes you despair.


Hopefully the Video goes viral and someone recognizes the a-hole and calls him out.


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## dnice (Jul 12, 2012)

Marc said:


> Good news, Bardet at least keeps his polka-dots. That would have majorly sucked if he lost that due to a Di2 or EPS FUBAR. Only 3 points, but that is enough.


pretty sure the team is on SRAM and it was a mechanical groupset not the wireless.


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## Marc (Jan 23, 2005)

dnice said:


> pretty sure the team is on SRAM and it was a mechanical groupset not the wireless.


I couldn't remember WTF SRAM's group was called. Not even sure SRAM has officially titled it yet 

Officially Ag2R is on SRAM wireless:

The bikes of the 2015 Tour de France | road.cc

Spotted: SRAM wireless drivetrain on AG2R La Mondiale bikes - VeloNews.com


Haven't heard anything about Bardet being a retro rider still using mech shifters and refusing the elec stuff. All AG2R riders have 2 bikes-one with mech the other electronic...today's bike looked like electronic to me based on footage and a bulky FD combined with all black brifters, but that was my eyeballs

Whereas yesterday he was on mech:

Pro bike: Romain Bardet's Tour de France Focus Izalco Max - BikeRadar


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## dnice (Jul 12, 2012)

Marc said:


> I couldn't remember WTF SRAM's group was called. Not even sure SRAM has officially titled it yet
> 
> Officially Ag2R is on SRAM wireless:
> 
> ...


yup, same bike today. first thing i thought when he had a mechanical was: "uh, oh, bad day for sram wireless gruppo", but when i spotted the tell tale extra-long cable loop on the chainstay i thought: "bad day for sram yaw gruppo".


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## bradkay (Nov 5, 2013)

If Nibali had been within striking distance of Froome, then the timing of his attack would have been unsporting. However, he was obviously setting up for the attack when Froome realized that he had the rock in his brake caliper, so I don't see it as an opportunist attack but rather an unfortunate incident for Froome. Why should he be crying about a rider who was eight minutes down?


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## Marc (Jan 23, 2005)

dnice said:


> yup, same bike today. first thing i thought when he had a mechanical was: "uh, oh, bad day for sram wireless gruppo", but when i spotted the tell tale extra-long cable loop on the chainstay i thought: "bad day for sram yaw gruppo".


I woulda sworn I didn't see the tell of the red flags on the brifters for the Red 22 mech group, but all black brifters like the wireless elec group. :idea:

Unfortunately Cyclingnews photos don't have nay of Bardet on bike today...although Velonews has yet to post theirs.


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## spdntrxi (Jul 25, 2013)

joeinchi said:


> Great stage. Nib's takes the win. NQ gains 32 sec on Froome, now trailing by 2:38.
> 
> How much did that take out of Froome? Quintana? Can't wait to find out.


He needs to attack at the base of alp de huez and hope


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## dnice (Jul 12, 2012)

Marc said:


> I woulda sworn I didn't see the tell of the red flags on the brifters for the Red 22 mech group, but all black brifters like the wireless elec group. :idea:
> 
> Unfortunately Cyclingnews photos don't have nay of Bardet on bike today...although Velonews has yet to post theirs.


they just did:

Gallery: 2015 Tour de France, stage 19 - VeloNews.com


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## Cinelli 82220 (Dec 2, 2010)

Bardet was on mechanical. He kept kicking the derailleur but it was stuck on the small ring. 
Maybe the cable pulled out of the fixing bolt?


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## BacDoc (Aug 1, 2011)

bradkay said:


> If Nibali had been within striking distance of Froome, then the timing of his attack would have been unsporting. However, he was obviously setting up for the attack when Froome realized that he had the rock in his brake caliper, so I don't see it as an opportunist attack but rather an unfortunate incident for Froome. Why should he be crying about a rider who was eight minutes down?


This is right!^

Last years champ way down in time, he can go for it at this point and Froome should just blow it off. If Nibali was a lot closer and had a chance to take jersey, it's still racing but not great sportsmanship. Gray area that needs context before calling it one way or the other.


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## coldash (May 7, 2012)

BacDoc said:


> This is right!^
> 
> Last years champ way down in time, he can go for it at this point and Froome should just blow it off. If Nibali was a lot closer and had a chance to take jersey, it's still racing but not great sportsmanship. Gray area that needs context before calling it one way or the other.


I don't have a problem with Nibali attacking (and Froome should have ignored it, IMV) but I do have a problem with him lying. When interviewed, he said that he hadn't seen Froome in trouble, hadn't looked back etc before attacking when millions saw it live and recorded on TV. He then said "Anyway it's his word against mine", as if nobody had seen it. Good rider but no class as a person.


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## r1lee (Jul 22, 2012)

If Nabali does a Landis and wins the tour by a few seconds than yes this attack will be questioned. Overall I'm ok with it, since if I were froome, I would never again pull up if nibs suffered a mechanical in th future.


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## Jwiffle (Mar 18, 2005)

coldash said:


> I don't have a problem with Nibali attacking (and Froome should have ignored it, IMV) but I do have a problem with him lying. When interviewed, he said that he hadn't seen Froome in trouble, hadn't looked back etc before attacking when millions saw it live and recorded on TV. He then said "Anyway it's his word against mine", as if nobody had seen it. Good rider but no class as a person.


Froome needs to get over it. Nibali says he looked back at his teammate, not at Froome. But it doesn't matter. Nibali's attack wasn't to try to win the Jersey. He was aiming for stage glory. He wouldn't have realistically thought it would move him into contention. Probably surprised him that it moved him up the standings as far as it did. He's going to have a difficult time to try to move up any further tomorrow after today's effort, as he put in a big effort today just to win the stage. He may end up paying and moving back down a place or two tomorrow.


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## PBL450 (Apr 12, 2014)

coldash said:


> Here it is
> 
> Gfycat - jiffier gifs through HTML5 Video Conversion. Fast, simple gif hosting without size limits.
> 
> Makes you despair.


Absolutely. As much as unfounded doping accusations.


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## PBL450 (Apr 12, 2014)

Wow, that was a great stage, right from the go! Awesome.


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## Cinelli 82220 (Dec 2, 2010)

Jwiffle said:


> Nibali says he looked back at his teammate, not at Froome.


Nibali took off at the same time as Froome slowed, he didn't look back, analyse the situation, and attack. Nibali had been talking to his team mate and probably planned the attack in advance. The two things happened at the same time, but one did not cause the other.


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## Rich Gibson (Jul 26, 2013)

love4himies said:


> Some people are pigs.


In another shot there was a geezer my age who gave the traditional (FU) salute with his forearm several times to Froome.

Rich


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## joeinchi (Sep 24, 2010)

Rich Gibson said:


> In another shot there was a geezer my age who gave the traditional (FU) salute with his forearm several times to Froome.


Ah, there he is ...


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## coldash (May 7, 2012)

Cinelli 82220 said:


> Nibali took off at the same time as Froome slowed, he didn't look back, analyse the situation, and attack. Nibali had been talking to his team mate and probably planned the attack in advance. The two things happened at the same time, but one did not cause the other.


You can clearly see him look behind him to his left watch what Froome is doing, then look again to see Froome stop and then attack. I don't have a problem with that (IMV neither should Froome) but Nibali's "Prove it" defence suggests, as well as the video evidence, that he took advantage of Froome's mechanical

I also thought that Contador was justified in attacking Andy S in the "chaingate" incident. 

Anyway, it appears that Nibali is now saying "these things happen", so draw your own conclusions.


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## PJay (May 28, 2004)

r1lee said:


> If Nabali does a Landis and wins the tour by a few seconds than yes this attack will be questioned. Overall I'm ok with it, since if I were froome, I would never again pull up if nibs suffered a mechanical in th future.


What tour did Lance win by a few seconds by exploiting a mechanical?


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## MoonHowl (Oct 5, 2008)

According to Nibbles, if you believe him, Froome laid into him after the race. Of course what Nibbles did was perfectly legal, IIRC Froome cheated in 2013 by taking on food at a time when it was prohibited when he was bonking. Froome would serve himself well by keeping his pie hole shut.


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## PJay (May 28, 2004)

beavis1960 said:


> Dirty, doping, **** douche.....


this language is over the line.


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## love4himies (Jun 12, 2012)

Cinelli 82220 said:


> Nibali took off at the same time as Froome slowed, he didn't look back, analyse the situation, and attack. Nibali had been talking to his team mate and probably planned the attack in advance. The two things happened at the same time, but one did not cause the other.


I agree. I think Astana wanted the stage win and that was in the plan from the start of the stage. Nibali is no threat to the yellow jersey so I don't know why Froome has such an issue. Maybe he thinks when the yellow jersey has a mechanical the race should come to a stop when they are in the final Kms???? At some point the race is on and bad luck happens.


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## Pirx (Aug 9, 2009)

So, slightly different question, what was that BS regarding AC changing to a "lighter bike" all about? I think both Bobke and Vandevelde were babbling something along those lines, repeatedly. 

I take it as a given that in a mountain stage like this, everyone is riding a bike that's at the UCI weight limit, so this makes no sense at all. What I can see is Contador wanting to switch to different gearing that's optimized for just the last part of the stage, and switching bikes is faster than swapping rear wheels; plus, he could have different chain rings and cassette this way.


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## Coolhand (Jul 28, 2002)

*Moderators Note*



beavis1960 said:


> Dirty, doping, **** douche.....


And your gone.


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## joeinchi (Sep 24, 2010)

He did it again and apparently it has lighter, less durable rims and teflon chain lube. Good for 5w.

Even the Specialized guys wondered if the time loss was worth it.


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## coldash (May 7, 2012)

Pirx said:


> So, slightly different question, what was that BS regarding AC changing to a "lighter bike" all about? I think both Bobke and Vandevelde were babbling something along those lines, repeatedly.
> 
> I take it as a given that in a mountain stage like this, everyone is riding a bike that's at the UCI weight limit, so this makes no sense at all. What I can see is Contador wanting to switch to different gearing that's optimized for just the last part of the stage, and switching bikes is faster than swapping rear wheels; plus, he could have different chain rings and cassette this way.


The lighter weight bike bit is nonsense. IIRC Contador prefers higher tire pressures and maybe different tires and gearing for these climbs. Sagan OTOH has changed to a different frame (the new Venge(?)) when on the flat any going for sprint points.


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## PBL450 (Apr 12, 2014)

Pirx said:


> So, slightly different question, what was that BS regarding AC changing to a "lighter bike" all about? I think both Bobke and Vandevelde were babbling something along those lines, repeatedly.
> 
> I take it as a given that in a mountain stage like this, everyone is riding a bike that's at the UCI weight limit, so this makes no sense at all. What I can see is Contador wanting to switch to different gearing that's optimized for just the last part of the stage, and switching bikes is faster than swapping rear wheels; plus, he could have different chain rings and cassette this way.


Yeah, I heard that said a few times and thought, there is no chance in hell, none, that anyone in this race is using a bike that weighs even a few grams more than every other bike in the race. Sagan said earlier he changed for more aero. Gearing and set up, it has to be, as joeinchi and coldash said...


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## Pirx (Aug 9, 2009)

joeinchi said:


> Even the Specialized guys wondered if the time loss was worth it.


Well, there's all sorts of possible reasons Contador could have, including things that are just in his head. We all know that psychology matters almost as much as physiology and physics.


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