# 700 23 commuter tires?



## brujenn (Nov 26, 2007)

What do you like for a reliable commuter tire? I'm interested in bullet proof more than anything else. I like high air pressure, don't need much tread or soft compund. I want many, many miles of wear, and few flats. I'll give up weight for tough on the commuter.


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## mike2g (Oct 10, 2006)

*Specialized Armadillo Elite*

If you want to stay a 700x23 and are looking for flat resistance Specialized Armadillo line is good. If I had to choose, I think the Specialized Armadillo Elite fits your criteria well
http://www.specialized.com/bc/SBCEqProduct.jsp?spid=35646
I don't have personal experience with the Elite series but with the normal Armadillos. The Armadillo line in general gets good reviews for durability and flat resistance


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## Dave Hickey (Jan 27, 2002)

Maxxis Re-fuse.... I haven't worn them out yet


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## whataklug (Mar 6, 2007)

T-Serv for messengers have no equals. Commuting 4000 miles this year in the dirty glass infested streets of Provvy, without incident, has me thoroughly convinced. I work in a shop and after inspecting a lot of customers tires over the years, can honestly say that they seem to outlast Hard Cases, Armadillos, and the Gatorskins. But, then again, its all a crapshoot. I think I will go throw my dice now.


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## StageHand (Dec 27, 2002)

T-Serv's don't come in a 23, and the 25 is relatively tall. While I haven't yet had problems with clearance, it wouldn't take a lot. I think that the Maxxis and the Specialized are better choices for these criteria. 

BTW, my own T-Servs, which is one of my favorites, last about a year per bike, less if I ride the fixie as much as I did last year (not much this year). I've never tracked mileage, but it's usually about a year; don't know why.


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## Hollywood (Jan 16, 2003)

*Soma Everwear*

these got great reviews in Cog magazine (messenger types)

http://www.somafab.com/tires_ev.html


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## blackhat (Jan 2, 2003)

my pacers got michelin speediums on at the moment. they're 25's but 23's are available. I put them on in early august and have yet to flat.


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## majura (Apr 21, 2007)

Another vote for Specialized Armadillo's.

I use the All Condition 700x23 variety. Heavy and not compliant (read harsher ride) but worth the sacrifice.


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## bigbill (Feb 15, 2005)

Continental Ultra Gatorskins. I have a set on my road bike that have over 4K on them and that is a new record for me. The back tire is ridged out and has had a cut in the tread since mile 200. I think I can wear the cut out before the casing shows. If you want bullet proof, put tuffys in them. Tuffies have a bad rap for affecting the ride and they used to be made of a harder plastic, but the new type is very pliable and IMO doesn't change the ride. I would road race on Ultras.


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## wheelerfreak (Nov 13, 2007)

Another vote for the Armadillos. I've got about 1k on mine in the last year and the are still looking good. I went for absolute bulletproofness over weight etc. I don't want to get stuck fixing a flat and being late to work, so I went with the Armadillos.:thumbsup:


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## Sledgehammer03 (Mar 7, 2006)

I've run Armadillo All-Conditions in both 25 and 23. I was less that impressed with the 23. It lasted only about 1100 miles. Based on comments in earlier threads, I switched up to 28mm tires, great change. I got some Schawble Marathon Plus tires. They have a tire liner built in, under the running tread. I have put 500 miles on them, and they don't show ant wear, and have been UNPLATTABLE (that is what the tag said) :thumbsup:


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## Icculus (Mar 14, 2007)

Armadillo elites. I ride through all the glass I see and no flats in 2500 miles. I am trying to flat them. I run just basic tubes--no slime or liners.


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## Slim Again Soon (Oct 25, 2005)

*Maxxis Re-Fuse*

Tough -- I can't wear mine out, and I've not a flat all year -- but give a good ride and good road feel.

Get 25c tires, though -- you won't regret it.


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## superjohnny (May 16, 2006)

I'm running 28mm Gatorskins and they're tough, but probably not the toughest. A puny little shard of steel cut right through them. I expect them roll over nails and not flat  I would suggest a wider tire than a 23 though. 23's are for racing and super small folks. I'm 6'2" and about 170lbs and I think 25's are just right for me. Maybe I'll try some of the Maxis tires next...

Commuting is all about staying on the road and not getting flats. Nothing sucks more than changing a flat on the side of the road in the rain when it's dark outside. It's miserable.


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## sfsailor (Nov 7, 2003)

*25c Gatorskins*

I bought a used tandem with Gatorskins ans was impressed with how tough they are. I put a set of 25's on my commuter. They are not large 25's unlike my experience with Michelin. These things have been bullet proof and I think they roll really well for the weight required to make them flat resistant.


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## My Own Private Idaho (Aug 14, 2007)

I don't mean to sound snide, but I know this question will. Why do you want to stick with 23's for commuting? When I went from 23's to 25's I was impressed. When I went to 28's I was even happier. They fit on my bike just fine, although I can't fit fenders.

If you haven't tried wider tires I would recommend it.

If you have a reason for keeping, or just like and don't want to consider changing from 23's, then please disregard.

I do well with Gatorskins, although I have never run any narrower than 25mm.


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## whataklug (Mar 6, 2007)

Sorry, I did't pay attention to the 23...I run twenty fives in the T-serv. Intentionally, I have run them through glass, as they are at their end...seriously, 4000 miles this year...I still have not flatted. This was not my luck in past years with other so called commuter tires. Hope this helps. Each spring I get a new set as they seem to get sidewall cracking in about that amount of time, but while they are on they road, keep air in them and they will not let you down. But, you need to go with a 25.


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## brujenn (Nov 26, 2007)

*Ebay shopping*

Man, I'm getting an education in bikes and buying bike stuff! First, thanks for all the replies. From the info y'all have provided and from a couple of other threads, I made a list of candidate tires. After reading what some of you ride through and encounter on the road, I have come to the conclusion that I ride on near virgin pavement. I still want a durable tire, but I don't need an extra 100 grams or more of armor. I went up a bit in weight to the IRC Redstorm Wet tires (I'm in Portland Or), but didn't even include some of the 350 gram tires in my comparison. We'll see how these work....

I was weaned on very thin sew-ups in the 70's, and 23 feels about right to me. I may try 25s later in life - I'm only 49 - not ready for hte cadilac ride yet.

I like the idea of supporting the LBS, but when I looked at the LBSs, Performance, Nashbar and EBay, I had to go with getting a $100 worth of tires for $35. Note that the prices below are all for a pair of tires.

I wanted to share something that you may already know about: The "compare" feature on your Ebay "watching" screen. I' ve always know to click the check box to delete, but just noticed the compare button. I've attached a screen shot of the side by side format that you get with the compare button. I had to click the "show all items" button, as it came up with only 4 at a time. This view saved me from having to click each item to refresh my memory of the details.


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## bcyclist (Jun 16, 2007)

bigbill said:


> Continental Ultra Gatorskins. I have a set on my road bike that have over 4K on them and that is a new record for me. The back tire is ridged out and has had a cut in the tread since mile 200. I think I can wear the cut out before the casing shows. If you want bullet proof, put tuffys in them. Tuffies have a bad rap for affecting the ride and they used to be made of a harder plastic, but the new type is very pliable and IMO doesn't change the ride. I would road race on Ultras.



I use Gatorskins with Mr. Tuffy's. The combination is still not bulletproof for me, but it's decent. When I get cuts, I try to milk the tire a little more by putting a little bit of duct tape on it. 

I do feel slower than some other cyclists and slower than when I'm riding my non-commuter bike, but I just think of it as "training".. hehe


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## Michelin Bicycle Tech (Nov 14, 2007)

brujenn said:


> What do you like for a reliable commuter tire? I'm interested in bullet proof more than anything else. I like high air pressure, don't need much tread or soft compund. I want many, many miles of wear, and few flats. I'll give up weight for tough on the commuter.


Our best selling commuter tire is the Krylion Carbon. It is also our longest lasting tire in terms of mileage. Why is it our best selling commuter tire? Well here are some stats:

Same 127 TPI casing as our Pro2 Race Tire
5 casing plies under the tread which increase mileage by up to 30% over the Pro2 Race
A Kevlar puncture protector that goes from bead to bead, this helps eliminate sidewall cuts
Sizes- 700X20c, 700X23c and 700X25C
Weights - 20c (220 Gram), 23c (235 Gram), 25c (290 Gram)

A word of wise, the 25c tires tend to stretch a bit to almost a 26 or 27c. This isn't an issue on many frames unless you have a frame with a compact geometry. The tires will fit when you first put them on, but will stretch overnight so be warned that they might not work. 

Hope this helps. If not, feel free to ask questions.


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## blackhat (Jan 2, 2003)

Michelin Man said:


> Hope this helps. If not, feel free to ask questions.



okay. not on topic to the OP's question but could you bring back the green muds?


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## MarkS (Feb 3, 2004)

Conti GP 4-Seasons.

I have been using the Conti GP 4-Seasons tires for a few years. Although I now have 25s on my commuting bike, I had had 23s in the past. The tires have been reliable and ride well in all kinds on weather.


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## Michelin Bicycle Tech (Nov 14, 2007)

blackhat said:


> okay. not on topic to the OP's question but could you bring back the green muds?


Unfortunately at this time, we are not planning on making a change back to the green color. Let me make it clear that when we changed from the green compound to the black compound a couple years ago, it was exactly the same compound make up. It was just a different color. This year, we did however, change the Mud2s slightly. The original post is here, or I can just paste what I wrote back then. And here is it:

Indeed, there has been a change to the 2007 Michelin Mud 2s. First off, this year we changed the casing. We changed the casing from the 120 TPI back to our 60 TPI casing. This gave the tire a strengthened architecturally base for the tires. This means less pinch flatting under lower PSI. Second, we changed the compound that will provide better grip in the wet. The new tires do have a new hot patch (plain white and black) and a different color packaging (green vs the brown).


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## brujenn (Nov 26, 2007)

*Update:*

I have about 200 miles on the IRC Redstorm Wet tires that I put on a couple of weeks ago. I had a puncture already, a piece of glass that looked like the tip of an exacto knife blade. It's hard to know what is a fair expectation when the destructor is so perfectly aimed and so sharp... I also wonder if these were 2nds, or if IRC has low production quality standards. The wide blue stripe wanders up and down, and worse, one of the tires has a hop (protrusion) that is bad enough that I can sometimes feel it when riding. I'm thinking I erred in not wanting to go up a bit more in weight, and in getting too excited by the bargain price.

I met up with a guy named Pete, from Santa Fe, on the ride when I got the puncture. I think he was missing his homeland weather on that 33 degree Portland Oregon rain and slushy snow day. I was missing his homeland weather too, when I was fixing that flat tire.


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## thinkcooper (Jan 5, 2005)

Michelin Man said:


> Unfortunately at this time, we are not planning on making a change back to the green color. Let me make it clear that when we changed from the green compound to the black compound a couple years ago, it was exactly the same compound make up. It was just a different color. This year, we did however, change the Mud2s slightly. The original post is here, or I can just paste what I wrote back then. And here is it:
> 
> Indeed, there has been a change to the 2007 Michelin Mud 2s. First off, this year we changed the casing. We changed the casing from the 120 TPI back to our 60 TPI casing. This gave the tire a strengthened architecturally base for the tires. This means less pinch flatting under lower PSI. Second, we changed the compound that will provide better grip in the wet. The new tires do have a new hot patch (plain white and black) and a different color packaging (green vs the brown).


Maybe there's a benefit to the green Muds other than simply the compound. Perhaps riders during a race could see the green tread through the mud coating better than on an identical black tire and it inspired more confidence in their tread being clear. When riders are within the same percent or two level of fitness as is typical at the highest levels of competition, confidence counts for a lot.


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## Mr. Versatile (Nov 24, 2005)

Performance Forte' Kevlar lined. They cost <$10.00, ride & roll nicely, last a very long time, and it takes an act of God to flat them. They're all I ever use on my commuter (although I use 28mm). My commute is 36 miles round trip. I ride to work daily, and haven't had a flat during the past 3 years, riding on considerably less than ideal roads.


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## MTT (Oct 14, 2005)

I have had both the Armadillos and the Gatorskins, both are great commuters, but the Armadillos are not as grippy in the rain. If you live in Socally, go with the Armis, but anywhere else go with the Gators...............MTT :thumbsup:


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## brujenn (Nov 26, 2007)

*Update 2*



Mr. Versatile said:


> Performance Forte' Kevlar lined. They cost <$10.00, ride & roll nicely, last a very long time, and it takes an act of God to flat them. They're all I ever use on my commuter (although I use 28mm). My commute is 36 miles round trip. I ride to work daily, and haven't had a flat during the past 3 years, riding on considerably less than ideal roads.


Thanks for the lead on the Forte, but I can't find it in anything like a 700 23 or 25. I did, based on comments read about probikeit.com, just order a set of conti ultra gatorskins on new years eve. It was black ice city here in Portland Or. I landed on my hip and wrist/forearm when my bike slid sideways out from under me at about 5 mph. So wierd... I was 5 miles into a maintenance ride - taking it slow, having fun with the idea that I am such a high horse power machine that I have to be careful to pedal evenly around the full circle because my rear kept slipping when I applied my massive forward thrust load.


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## rcnute (Dec 21, 2004)

The problem I found with the Gatorskins is that they lack traction in the wet (and naturally on ice). I really like the Panaracers with some tread on them.


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## MTT (Oct 14, 2005)

No tire works on ice, sorry to hear about your crash. Best to stay on the trainer on days like that, although easier said than done (I hate riding inside). The Gator skins have worked well for me in the Seattle rain, but any thin high pressure tire will be a bit slick. I ride the Gator 23s in the summer at 120psi, but this time of year I roll the Schwalbe Marathon Supreme 32s at 85psi. Very grippy and very slow, but I know I ain't goin down!

MTT


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## Mr. Versatile (Nov 24, 2005)

brujenn said:


> Thanks for the lead on the Forte, but I can't find it in anything like a 700 23 or 25. I did, based on comments read about probikeit.com, just order a set of conti ultra gatorskins on new years eve. It was black ice city here in Portland Or. I landed on my hip and wrist/forearm when my bike slid sideways out from under me at about 5 mph. So wierd... I was 5 miles into a maintenance ride - taking it slow, having fun with the idea that I am such a high horse power machine that I have to be careful to pedal evenly around the full circle because my rear kept slipping when I applied my massive forward thrust load.


Glad you're all right. I crashed on black ice last winter. I wasn't hurt, but the impact broke my Giro helmet.


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## nachomc (Aug 31, 2006)

I ride the Armadillo Elite All-Conditions. I previously rode the Armadillo (non-elite) and they're just too heavy and rough. The ride on the elites is much better, and the weight difference between the elites and the tires I had previously is nominal (using my finely tuned hand-based scale).


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## pigpen (Sep 28, 2005)

Michelin Man said:


> Our best selling commuter tire is the Krylion Carbon. It is also our longest lasting tire in terms of mileage. Why is it our best selling commuter tire? Well here are some stats:
> 
> Same 127 TPI casing as our Pro2 Race Tire
> 5 casing plies under the tread which increase mileage by up to 30% over the Pro2 Race
> ...


I will second this choice.
I communted for over a year on these as well as general traing rides. I have just rotated them for winter roller use at more than 2400 miles. I will more than likely replace with the same. I only flatted once the entire year. I went with the 25's and like stated above they are big but hey at 205 lbs and riding a cyclocross bike who cares.


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## tarwheel2 (Jul 7, 2005)

Comment (or suggestion) for MichelinMan -- Please start making some all-black tires, preferable Krylions and ProRaces. I love Michelin tires and have had great performance from them, but I am sick of all the gaudy color combinations. Go ahead and make the colored ones for cyclists who like them, but at least offer a "basic black" for those of us who like our color on our bike frames, not our tires. BTW, gray is not black.

Speaking of that, I've got some Krylions with yellow stripes that I attempted to color black with a permanent marker. The ink wouldn't totally cover the stripes but wouldn't come off either, so now they look pukey yellow gray. Any suggestions for how I might color the stripes black?


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## Michelin Bicycle Tech (Nov 14, 2007)

tarwheel2 said:


> Comment (or suggestion) for MichelinMan -- Please start making some all-black tires, preferable Krylions and ProRaces. I love Michelin tires and have had great performance from them, but I am sick of all the gaudy color combinations. Go ahead and make the colored ones for cyclists who like them, but at least offer a "basic black" for those of us who like our color on our bike frames, not our tires. BTW, gray is not black.
> 
> Speaking of that, I've got some Krylions with yellow stripes that I attempted to color black with a permanent marker. The ink wouldn't totally cover the stripes but wouldn't come off either, so now they look pukey yellow gray. Any suggestions for how I might color the stripes black?


I understand where you are coming from with the black tires and I will certainly pass that along to folks over in France. One main reason we do not make a black tire (at least not yet) is so consumers can see the different compounds that are used in making the tires. If we made it all black, there would be no difference between them, which is why we make the dark gray color. 

As far as making the stripes yellow again, I haven't got the slightest clue. I would suggest some sort of citrus cleaner and a scrub brush, but honestly do not know if that would work. Sorry I don't have a better answer for you on that one.


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## CleavesF (Dec 31, 2007)

I'm using Continental Contacts 700x28 and they're amazing. Bulletproof for sure. I know they're not 23's...

Also Rubinos with Aramid are really bulletproof 700x23, I train and these and have yet to have a flat. 

I've also used cheapy Michelin Speediums 700x23 and they're great, but they do puncture easily. I've gotten 3 flats, but boy are they fast and soft. Oh yeah, I should mention I got the flats on the rear tire of my fixed gear repeatedly doing skid stops so under "normal" use I would say they're durable.
________
Hot penny stocks


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## Killroy (Feb 9, 2006)

I like the Armadillo Reflect Tire in 25c because it has a huge reflector on the sidewall. 










Last years tire is selling for $26 at 

https://www.specialized.com/bc/SBCEqSection.jsp?sid=EquipTires700_Flat


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## schimanski (Jan 11, 2002)

CleavesF said:


> I've also used cheapy Michelin Speediums 700x23 and they're great, but they do puncture easily. I've gotten 3 flats, but boy are they fast and soft. Oh yeah, I should mention I got the flats on the rear tire of my fixed gear repeatedly doing skid stops so under "normal" use I would say they're durable.


I've raced 23mm Speediums on gravel roads and have been thinking they might be indestructible. All the real race tires I've used in such conditions have cut up badly.


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## CleavesF (Dec 31, 2007)

i'd have to agree. 

I'm sure if I used them on my regular bike I wouldn't have any punctures. The front speedium on my fixed gear never had a flat.
________
YAMAHA YZ250


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## alexb618 (Aug 24, 2006)

schwalbe stelvio plus


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## brujenn (Nov 26, 2007)

*Update #2:*

Another puncture in the IRC, broken glass again. The first time, I didn't see the glass. This time there was a shot gun spray that I couldn't avoid. On both occasions the ancient Conti 3000 on the front was undamaged. Bad luck, or not so tough tires?


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## scottyperkins (Jun 18, 2007)

+1 for Gator Skins. They're relatively inexpensive at REI and wear well. I run 23s also, and had three sets over 6000 miles last year.


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## brujenn (Nov 26, 2007)

*IRCs off, got the Gators*

But in the meantime, I put an old conti 4000 back on and have had 2 more glass cut flats with that tire. This is nuts - I had a flat yesterday, and another today in the 4000. I'm riding more than I ever have in the winter, and I guess they don't sweep as much when it's wet.


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