# So, what kinda Gruppo was Schleck riding when he tossed the Tour?



## Gnarly 928 (Nov 19, 2005)

Maybe I should go on another Forum page to ask, but it seems like it matters some here on pro racing.. 

Just curious as to the brand and the model shifters and deraileur that allowed him to 'de-chain' unintentionally and lose the most important race in the world with a jammed up chain. What was he doing to make a chain fall off on a climb anyhow?. Has there been any rap about that anywhere?

With full factory support and professional mechanics likely working the bikes over after every day and the most skillful professional riders in the world doing the shifting in the biggest race all year, the guy still manages to cause his equipment to malfunction? 

Seems like us mortals might want to find out what brand he was riding and maybe choose to use a different brand that won't do that at a crucial time, like Andy Schleck's did....You can't argue with the fact that his equipment choice caused him problems...and possibly cost him a whole season of work and theTDF ..

I am all for equipment that's the best possible stuff, newest, latest, most expensive, biggest advertising budget..... but it has to work as flawlessly as possible all the time and work day in/day out, problem free. I know some of the Pros were choosing to ride older Shimano components in some of the Spring Classics...for reason?. Wonder if that reason was they had chains coming off?

I bet AS will be using a chain keeper from now on..Bad luck, but perhaps somewhat caused by his equipment also...What?


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## sa7nt (Jun 28, 2010)

SRAM Red.

Same gruppo that helped AC win the TDF.

Newsflash: 99.9% of the time you can attribute things like this to operator error.


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## avalnch33 (Jul 19, 2006)

Schleck's fault, not the gruppo. He powershifted as he hit a bump and dropped his own chain.

He and Conatador have the same bikes and the same component group. 

Again Andy's fault, but he wouldn't have won the tour anyhow.


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## Jason1500 (Apr 1, 2008)

He was riding scram. Liggett or Sherwen talked about it this morning and said it was because Andy shifted several gears at once putting the chain at an extreme angle from the front gears.


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## zyzbot (Feb 3, 2004)

Gnarly 928 said:


> I bet AS will be using a chain keeper from now on..


According to reports I've read, his bike already had one in place that day.


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## Gnarly 928 (Nov 19, 2005)

Jason1500 said:


> He was riding scram. Liggett or Sherwen talked about it this morning and said it was because Andy shifted several gears at once putting the chain at an extreme angle from the front gears.


 Never ridden Sram. Maybe that feature, the ability to shift a bunch of gears all at once, is not such a great feature..People always seem to 'diss' some of the older stuff that you must tap the lever for each gear changed...Maybe not so lame after all..

I know, all kinds of folks will now say..."It ain't Sram...any stuff can be missused...cause your chain to toss off" and they will be right, I guess. But when it happens at that level with the kinds of professional maintainence they must put into that gear...perhaps Sram needs to revise those features to make that outcome less likely.. 

.For a dorky club racer and self-mechanic who's probably gonna be on less well maintained gear than Saxo or Astana or RS...maybe I will wait a few more years to try the Sram...now. Not the best advertising for that brand...


My Shimano 9sp hardly ever has problems and it is OLD...


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## Bocephus Jones II (Oct 7, 2004)

avalnch33 said:


> Schleck's fault, not the gruppo. He powershifted as he hit a bump and dropped his own chain.
> 
> He and Conatador have the same bikes and the same component group.
> 
> Again Andy's fault, but he wouldn't have won the tour anyhow.


The only time I dropped a chain was when my FD was way out of adjustment. A modern road group on a relatively non-bumpy road (ie not racing cross or cobbles) should not drop a chain no matter how hamfisted you shift it.


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## sa7nt (Jun 28, 2010)

Gnarly 928 said:


> Not the best advertising for that brand...


Considering their stuff was on the bikes for the top two finishers of the TDF, I would say they did pretty well advertising-wise.


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## rhauft (Aug 8, 2006)

Gnarly 928 said:


> Not the best advertising for that brand...


Results speak for themselves.
Scoreboard:
2009 TdF all 3 podiums on SRAM
2010 TdF 2/3 podiums on SRAM

There really slipping...


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## pretender (Sep 18, 2007)

I think the problem is that stuff USUALLY works TOO well. 99% of the time it will let you shift under load without busting or dropping a chain, so you get sloppy.


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## Jim311 (Sep 18, 2009)

I'm not sure discounting the entire brand based upon one particular high profile incident is necessarily fair.


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## avalnch33 (Jul 19, 2006)

i have a red gruppo on my bike, and I love it way better than my DA 7800. It shifts faster and is extremely reliable. I think the starter of this post is just trolling. sorry to say, but you can go up 3 gears at a time on shimano and sram, so your theory on modern technology and dumping gears resulting in crappy shifting isn't reality. it was andy's fault because he was cross chained and put his chain-line at an awkward angle during an acceleration. When he went to shift and put more into his attack, he had a lot of torque on the chain, and tried to shift it under extreme load(powershift). This resulted in his chain not wanting to shift, and chains do not shift well under load, compound that with the bump that made his rear end bounce caused the chain to drop between the small chainring and the frame. It happens, even to the best set up bikes in the world that are worked on by the best mechanics. For those that say they have never dumped a chain unless their frond der wasn't adjusted properly, aren't riding enough.


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## cpark (Oct 13, 2004)

Gnarly 928 said:


> Maybe I should go on another Forum page to ask, but it seems like it matters some here on pro racing..
> 
> Just curious as to the brand and the model shifters and deraileur that allowed him to 'de-chain' unintentionally and lose the most important race in the world with a jammed up chain. What was he doing to make a chain fall off on a climb anyhow?. Has there been any rap about that anywhere?
> 
> ...


According to the Sram Rep, AS' bike had the chain watcher on it.
He stated that AS should not been on 38/12 when he attacked.
Two things that surprised me.

A) Yes, I agree that AS should not been on 38/12 but should've that caused a kind of chaotic incident we saw?

B) What the hell was AS doing attacking with 38/12 gear selection?


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## Ventruck (Mar 9, 2009)

ZOMGARWSH RED is turrible. I'll never use it.


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## cpark (Oct 13, 2004)

avalnch33 said:


> i have a red gruppo on my bike, and I love it way better than my DA 7800. It shifts faster and is extremely reliable. I think the starter of this post is just trolling. sorry to say, but you can go up 3 gears at a time on shimano and sram, so your theory on modern technology and dumping gears resulting in crappy shifting isn't reality. it was andy's fault because he was cross chained and put his chain-line at an awkward angle during an acceleration. When he went to shift and put more into his attack, he had a lot of torque on the chain, and tried to shift it under extreme load(powershift). This resulted in his chain not wanting to shift, and chains do not shift well under load, compound that with the bump that made his rear end bounce caused the chain to drop between the small chainring and the frame. It happens, even to the best set up bikes in the world that are worked on by the best mechanics. For those that say they have never dumped a chain unless their frond der wasn't adjusted properly, aren't riding enough.


Sram, Campy and Shimano.....To each his own.
I will say that I've been using Shimano (mostly DA) since 80's, and other companys has provided me with little or no compelling reasons for me to switch.
Another word, it ain't broke, and I'm not changing it unless it's given to me for free.
I try not to cross chain, but sometimes inadvertently I end with 53/23 or 39/23, yet never experienced what AS has.


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## avalnch33 (Jul 19, 2006)

cpark said:


> Sram, Campy and Shimano.....To each his own.
> I will say that I've been using Shimano (mostly DA) since 80's, and other companys has provided me with little or no compelling reasons for me to switch.
> Another word, it ain't broke, and I'm not changing it unless it's given to me for free.
> I try not to cross chain, but sometimes inadvertently I end with 53/23 or 39/23, yet never experienced what AS has.


then apparently you are the best bike rider of your generation and have no mechanical's due to your own fault or your mechanic. come on if you spent 88 hours in 23 days on your bike you would have a mechanical of some sort.


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## cpark (Oct 13, 2004)

avalnch33 said:


> then apparently you are the best bike rider of your generation and have no mechanical's due to your own fault or your mechanic. come on if you spent 88 hours in 23 days on your bike you would have a mechanical of some sort.


Of course I am since I don't cross chain right before attacking.   
I probably have as many miles as Alberto or Andy......


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## avalnch33 (Jul 19, 2006)

cpark said:


> Of course I am since I don't cross chain right before attacking.
> I probably have as many miles as Alberto or Andy......


keep telling yourself that.


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## CoLiKe20 (Jan 30, 2006)

Gnarly 928 said:


> Never ridden Sram......maybe I will wait a few more years to try the Sram...now. Not the best advertising for that brand...
> 
> 
> My Shimano 9sp hardly ever has problems and it is OLD...


Sram must be doing something right. they got the top 2 spots in the TdF this year.


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## enac (Aug 24, 2007)

CoLiKe20 said:


> Sram must be doing something right. they got the top 2 spots in the TdF this year.



Yeah, SRAM cost the guy who finished second 1st place in the Tour. Companies like Specialized, Trek, and SRAM find the absolute best riders in the world and pay them and their teams to use the product so they can then claim that their products are the best. One has to wonder if Schleck would have actually won the Tour had he used either Shimano or Campagnolo. I hope his new team bails on SRAM.


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## enac (Aug 24, 2007)

Jason1500 said:


> He was riding scram. Liggett or Sherwen talked about it this morning and said it was because Andy shifted several gears at once putting the chain at an extreme angle from the front gears.



Yeah, why do you think Phil and Paul decided to blame Andy Schleck for a bad shift rather than the component manufacturer? It probably didn't have anything to do with the fact that SRAM (not Shimano or Campy) spent huge dollars advertising their products seemingly at every commercial interuption of the Versus Tour coverage. Paul, Phil, Craig, and Bob had no trouble whatsoever shamelessly promoting the clean bottle bs every time the stupid mascot got himself into a camera shot. I sure hope Andy Schleck's team bails on using SRAM next season. If they are foolish enough to go with SRAM, I hope they DEMAND 10 or 20 times their current endorsement fee. 

Maybe if SRAM put half the budget they spent on advertising their products into R&D, this incident would never have occurred?


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## jan_nikolajsen (Dec 25, 2009)

What kind of user error would cause this?

I'm a mediocre bike handler who cross chain, shift multiple cogs under load and do all sorts of lame things, but if something is funky I can always trace it back to poor maintenance and wrong adjustments.


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## enac (Aug 24, 2007)

Jim311 said:


> I'm not sure discounting the entire brand based upon one particular high profile incident is necessarily fair.



Maybe you have a point there. Not every Ford Pinto exploded into a fiery death trap when they were rear ended.


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## S_Top_Sign (Dec 9, 2009)

Whatever. All three component groups get the job done. I will say that in my experience, Shimano is more "fool proof." I've had far more incidents on SRAM than I ever had with shimano, despite having run SRAM for a few months out of my entire history as a rider. SRAM's road components just aren't "refined" yet. They're good enough to perform at a pro level though, so I don't see this being a problem for SRAM.

Ironically:
I actually just had the chain jam on my Force/Rival stuff today. 39/19 shifting to 39/21. I don't think that's too much to ask of a derailleur, now is it? Completely stalled my cranks. Nothing catastrophic, but definitely going to take a keen eye to the setup tomorrow.


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## enac (Aug 24, 2007)

cpark said:


> According to the Sram Rep, AS' bike had the chain watcher on it.
> He stated that AS should not been on 38/12 when he attacked.
> Two things that surprised me.
> 
> ...



So SRAM is laying all the blame on their star rider. Why doesn't Sram hold a press conference to tell the world that their star rider is a complete dumbass who needs to relearn how to ride a bike then. I think there should be a Congressional Inquiry into how and why the FAILED shift occurred. Was it due to rider error? Product failure? Failure of the team mechanic to keep the complicated system properly adjusted? Sabotage? Or any combination of the above? If it is determined that SRAM has any culpabilty for this FAILED SHIFT then they should be forced to publicly apologize to Andy Schleck, Team SAxo-Bank, and all the TDF fans who were cheated from witnessing Andy Schleck's first ever TDF VICTORY.


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## sa7nt (Jun 28, 2010)

enac said:


> So SRAM is laying all the blame on their star rider. Why doesn't Sram hold a press conference to tell the world that their star rider is a complete dumbass who needs to relearn how to ride a bike then. I think there should be a Congressional Inquiry into how and why the FAILED shift occurred. Was it due to rider error? Product failure? Failure of the team mechanic to keep the complicated system properly adjusted? Sabotage? Or any combination of the above? If it is determined that SRAM has any culpabilty for this FAILED SHIFT then they should be forced to publicly apologize to Andy Schleck, Team SAxo-Bank, and all the TDF fans who were cheated from witnessing Andy Schleck's first ever TDF VICTORY.


You need more capitalized words in your statement. I feel like you just aren't getting your point across.


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## il sogno (Jul 15, 2002)

Here's the SRAM rep talking about Andy's chain drop on VeloNews. It starts at 8:00 in.

http://video.competitor.com/2010/07/cycling/velocenter-tdf-stage-19-extra/


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## ultimobici (Jul 16, 2005)

This is a rider losing due to a manufacturer failure. 

Fignon had escaped the peleton in the 1982 Blois-Chaville when his Campagnolo Super Record Ti axle snapped, dumping him on the pavement.









Schleck was in 38/12, which I suspect would have already been catching on the 52 or 53 outer. Nothing broke so he was able to use the bike to the finish, yet it's SRAM's fault?
30% of the top 10 were on SRAM including the winner.
<link rel="File-List" href="file:///C:/DOCUME%7E1/Sean/LOCALS%7E1/Temp/msoclip1/01/clip_filelist.xml"><!--[if gte mso 9]><xml> <w:WordDocument> <w:View>Normal</w:View> <w:Zoom>0</w:Zoom> <woNotOptimizeForBrowser/> </w:WordDocument> </xml><![endif]--><style> <!-- /* Style Definitions */ p.MsoNormal, li.MsoNormal, div.MsoNormal {mso-style-parent:""; margin:0cm; margin-bottom:.0001pt; mso-pagination:widow-orphan; font-size:12.0pt; font-family:Arial; mso-fareast-font-family:"Times New Roman"; mso-bidi-font-family:"Times New Roman";} @page Section1 {size:612.0pt 792.0pt; margin:72.0pt 90.0pt 72.0pt 90.0pt; mso-header-margin:36.0pt; mso-footer-margin:36.0pt; mso-paper-source:0;} div.Section1 {page:Section1;} --> </style> 1 Alberto Contador Velasco (Spa) Astana 91:58:48 SRAM
2 Andy Schleck (Lux) Team Saxo Bank 0:00:39 SRAM
3 Denis Menchov (Rus) Rabobank 0:02:01 SHIMANO
4 Samuel Sánchez Gonzalez (Spa) Euskaltel - Euskadi 0:03:40 SHIMANO
5 Jurgen Van Den Broeck (Bel) Omega Pharma-Lotto 0:06:54 CAMPAGNOLO
6 Robert Gesink (Ned) Rabobank 0:09:31 SHIMANO
7 Ryder Hesjedal (Can) Garmin - Transitions 0.10.15 SHIMANO
8 Joaquin Rodriguez (Spa) Team Katusha 0:11:37 CAMPAGNOLO
9 Roman Kreuziger (Cze) Liquigas-Doimo 0:11:54 CAMPAGNOLO
10 Christopher Horner (USA) Team Radioshack 0:12:02 SRAM

SRAM equipment has been used to win all of the Grand Tours with no one having schlecked their chain in the process save AS himself. AS needs to learn about appropriate gear use and how to avoid sabotaging himself.


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## Nimitz (Jul 8, 2004)

stupidity is strong in this thread.

Chad


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## jermso (May 13, 2009)

rhauft said:


> Results speak for themselves.
> Scoreboard:
> 2009 TdF all 3 podiums on SRAM
> 2010 TdF 2/3 podiums on SRAM
> ...


LOL

SRAM rocks hard y'all

da podium gruppo!


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## philippec (Jun 16, 2002)

Just to point out that it seems (as reported by l'Equipe) that Schleck had been using SRAM Force on several days prior to the fateful chaindrop. Perhaps he shouldn't have switched to Red that day?


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## Salsa_Lover (Jul 6, 2008)

Bocephus Jones II said:


> The only time I dropped a chain was when my FD was way out of adjustment. A modern road group on a relatively non-bumpy road (ie not racing cross or cobbles) should not drop a chain no matter how hamfisted you shift it.


If you are on a crossed chain situation ( 39-12 or 53-27 for example ) and under heavy load ( like climbing off the saddle ) and you try to shift, you would probably have a droped chain. Just like Andy did.


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## Salsa_Lover (Jul 6, 2008)

BTW all thouse "Specialized and SRAM is winning the tours" is BS

It is called sponsoring, they pay the top athletes big money to induce you think their product is superior. ( just like Trek did before, now were are the Treks on the podium ? )

Conty or Andy would have been 1 and 2 all the same on PedalForce frames and Suntour superbe equiped bikes


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## cpark (Oct 13, 2004)

enac said:


> So SRAM is laying all the blame on their star rider. Why doesn't Sram hold a press conference to tell the world that their star rider is a complete dumbass who needs to relearn how to ride a bike then. I think there should be a Congressional Inquiry into how and why the FAILED shift occurred. Was it due to rider error? Product failure? Failure of the team mechanic to keep the complicated system properly adjusted? Sabotage? Or any combination of the above? If it is determined that SRAM has any culpabilty for this FAILED SHIFT then they should be forced to publicly apologize to Andy Schleck, Team SAxo-Bank, and all the TDF fans who were cheated from witnessing Andy Schleck's first ever TDF VICTORY.


The Sram rep indirectly did blame AS for using 38/12 prior to shifting.


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## LWP (Jun 6, 2006)

Nimitz said:


> stupidity is strong in this thread.
> 
> Chad


And it's name is backwards cane.


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## litespeedchick (Sep 9, 2003)

Hi Phillipe - thanks again for the help on our trip last year!

What about the bobble during the TT and the bike change yesterday? has there been any discussion of that?


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## RkFast (Dec 11, 2004)

Bocephus Jones II said:


> The only time I dropped a chain was when my FD was way out of adjustment. A modern road group on a relatively non-bumpy road (ie not racing cross or cobbles) should not drop a chain no matter how hamfisted you shift it.


And Funny Car engines "should not" just blow up out of nowhere killing the driver, but as they say....stuff happens.


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## Gnarly 928 (Nov 19, 2005)

zyzbot said:


> According to reports I've read, his bike already had one in place that day.


 OK then what type chainkeeper did he have on there that didn't keep his chain on? That component should have worked too, but didn't.

Whatever else happened, Sheck threw off his chain. However you spin it, he was ahead and that incident left him behind. Equipment that can leave you standing in the road fussing to fix some problem...no matter how you excuse it or blame "the rider's error" it is not good. Real world functionality is what matters. If the component is said to be able to do multiple cog power climbing shifts then it doesn't actually do it, dependably, and sometimes drops you onto your top tube...Bad. Be better to have a shifter that doesn't allow you to do that. In extreme riding conditions riders will do strange stuff with their bikes. I bet Sram will 'revise' their mechanisim to make malfunctions like Schleck's impossible in the future.

All you Sram guys out there...This is not an affront to your personal worth as humans and cyclists...it's just 'need to know'. Could this have happened to other brands? Maybe, but it didn't. It is worth knowing which shifter mechanisim caused such a spectacular and widely televised time loss during the grand daddy of all bike races..


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## NextTime (Oct 13, 2007)

cpark said:


> What the hell was AS doing attacking with 38/12 gear selection?


OK. What gearing should he have been in?


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## Gnarly 928 (Nov 19, 2005)

Ventruck said:


> ZOMGARWSH RED is turrible. I'll never use it.


 Me neither....no roll eyes. well maybe if someone gave me Sram I'd give it a try, but to pay high dollar?...no..


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## PeanutButterBreath (Dec 4, 2005)

I take it that SRAM would have preferred that Schleck shift to the big chainring and then shift the rear accordingly before launching his surprise attack. 

"High-end consumer" and "race grade" are not necessarily the same market.

Who cares if 999 out of 1000 riders have no problem with SRAM when the one rider who does loses the TDF because of it?


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## philippec (Jun 16, 2002)

you're welcome!


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## Gnarly 928 (Nov 19, 2005)

il sogno said:


> Here's the SRAM rep talking about Andy's chain drop on VeloNews. It starts at 8:00 in.
> 
> http://video.competitor.com/2010/07/cycling/velocenter-tdf-stage-19-extra/


 Interestingly, Sram sponsored that interveiw, too.


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## Jim311 (Sep 18, 2009)

I also like how we're blaming the componentry and not the setup. Do we know FOR SURE that the team mechanics adjusted that low stop correctly? We are just assuming that "the best mechanics evar" didn't make a mistake. WTF, it had a chain keeper on there too right? There are a lot of variables, and like I said, I don't think it's fair to discount an entire brand based upon one mishap. $hit happens sometimes.


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## rhauft (Aug 8, 2006)

OP is 100% right!

If Schleck raced on 1998 Shimano 600 he'd be the TdF champion :thumbsup: 
If Cavindish raced on 1985 lugged steel with downtube shifters and toe straps he'd be in green for sure! Maybe even yellow...:idea: 

moronic


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## Bocephus Jones II (Oct 7, 2004)

Jim311 said:


> I also like how we're blaming the componentry and not the setup. Do we know FOR SURE that the team mechanics adjusted that low stop correctly? We are just assuming that "the best mechanics evar" didn't make a mistake. WTF, it had a chain keeper on there too right? There are a lot of variables, and like I said, I don't think it's fair to discount an entire brand based upon one mishap. $hit happens sometimes.


Fair enough...it was the setup, issues with SRAM or just really, really bad luck that caused it. Seriously...intentionally try and throw your chain the next time you ride by shifting quickly under load from the small small combo to small large. See how easy it is to do.


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## yater (Nov 30, 2006)

avalnch33 said:


> then apparently you are the best bike rider of your generation and have no mechanical's due to your own fault or your mechanic. come on if you spent 88 hours in 23 days on your bike you would have a mechanical of some sort.


I've had 3 flat tires in the last 6 years....no other mechanicals. That's about 35,000 miles


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## AllezCat (Jun 2, 2006)

Great....thanks guys....now I am stupider for having read the entire thread....


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## penn_rider (Jul 11, 2009)

He was riding the yellow marked group, same color identification as the limited edition lightweight group. I know that it may have been the yellow Sram logo because of his yellow jersey,, but what if there was something a miss with the new group that only a few were allowed to ride?


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## ultimobici (Jul 16, 2005)

First off I have all 3 manufacturers' kit on my bikes.
Secondly I work in the bike industry too, so see issues of similar nature quite often on all 3 manufacturers' kit.
Pro riders are athletically superior to most, if not all, of us. They are probably tactically superior too. But they are just as capable of being as cack-handed as any newbie fred, especially when the pressure is on.
AS made a mistake and as a result of the need to be able to shift from any position on the bike, his chain was unhitched. Had he been on DT levers it probably would not have happened as he could not have had as much pressure on the chain. But to say that Campag or Shimano wouldn't have had the same issue is a crock.


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## ultimobici (Jul 16, 2005)

penn_rider said:


> He was riding the yellow marked group, same color identification as the limited edition lightweight group. I know that it may have been the yellow Sram logo because of his yellow jersey,, but what if there was something a miss with the new group that only a few were allowed to ride?


Or it had been assembled hastily?


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## Creakyknees (Sep 21, 2003)

If we are saying that Schleck was in his 39/12 and fully cross-chained, and this contributed to the problem, then the real problem is that his chainstays were too short.

Merckx used to ride really long chainstays and he never lost the Tour due to a mechanical. 

So that proves it. It's the bike's fault.


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## il sogno (Jul 15, 2002)

litespeedchick said:


> Hi Phillipe - thanks again for the help on our trip last year!
> 
> What about the bobble during the TT and the bike change yesterday? has there been any discussion of that?


Yeah, I'm wondering about the TT bobble and yesterday's bike change too.


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## richieb (Aug 23, 2007)

This is all based on the idea that Schleck would have been able to hold a solo break for that entire descent and all the way to the finish. The arguement is moot, and way too hypothetical for us "experts" to weigh in and point a finger at what "lost" andy's tour.

It happened.

He's moved on. I know I have, too.


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## il sogno (Jul 15, 2002)

Interesting....Candellara, Frank and Andy had a modification done to their rear derailleur. 
_
Finally, all three riders also share a propensity for Wolfgang Berner's unique rear derailleur modification, which comprises a longer pulley cage and oversized 13T/15T upper/lower pulley wheels spliced on to an otherwise standard SRAM Red rear derailleur (the Schlecks use it on their road bikes; Cancellara only uses it for time trials along with Team Radioshack's Lance Armstrong)._

From Cycling news


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## richieb (Aug 23, 2007)

Der Mod was done only to Schleck's Silver bike.


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## ultimobici (Jul 16, 2005)

Perhaps it was the Cycling Gods putting AS in his place for riding with Sram Red LTE? After all it was for Previous Tour Winners only.

http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/tour-tech-sram-delivers-special-red-lte-groups

Just idly wondering.......:wink5:


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## Nimitz (Jul 8, 2004)

Gnarly 928 said:


> OK then what type chainkeeper did he have on there that didn't keep his chain on? That component should have worked too, but didn't.
> 
> Whatever else happened, Sheck threw off his chain. However you spin it, he was ahead and that incident left him behind. Equipment that can leave you standing in the road fussing to fix some problem...no matter how you excuse it or blame "the rider's error" it is not good. Real world functionality is what matters. If the component is said to be able to do multiple cog power climbing shifts then it doesn't actually do it, dependably, and sometimes drops you onto your top tube...Bad. Be better to have a shifter that doesn't allow you to do that. In extreme riding conditions riders will do strange stuff with their bikes. I bet Sram will 'revise' their mechanisim to make malfunctions like Schleck's impossible in the future.
> 
> All you Sram guys out there...This is not an affront to your personal worth as humans and cyclists...it's just 'need to know'. Could this have happened to other brands? Maybe, but it didn't. It is worth knowing which shifter mechanisim caused such a spectacular and widely televised time loss during the grand daddy of all bike races..


you do realize everything has a failure rate right? what about Armstrong pedal incidents? or ANY other numerous mechanical during ANY tour/race.

**** happens.:thumbsup: 

Chad


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## AvantDale (Dec 26, 2008)

Its just plain bad luck. A chain can drop no matter what grouppo you run. If the conditions are right...the chain will drop.

I bet everyone at one point or another has dropped a chain. If they said they haven't...they're probably lying.


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## rydbyk (Feb 17, 2010)

doesn't matter...gruppo has nothing to do with it.


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## Gnarly 928 (Nov 19, 2005)

Well I started this whole mess...and there are some widely divergent opinions being expressed...Thanks for the answer..and for all the opinions...

Remember when Shimano first went to 10sp and the chains were breaking...more so than before? If I recall correctly, some pro rider broke a 10 speed chain, on TV even, while leading a Spring Classic race. Then soon after that incident, the chains stopped breaking....Probably not because the riders got weaker or stopped hammering so hard...but more likely because they quietly revised something with the component... We never saw many broken chains till that "new, improved" 10sp came out...I am sure they did happen before that new development, broken chains...but not on TV, not when a rider was leading a big race, not on a "new" type component..

That is why I asked the original question...I have not ever seen a TDF leader de-chain while leading on a climb until this time. Been following Tours since Lemond and Hinault... Schleck also had a second pedaling glitch, a second awkward moment invloving his rotating driveline, during his TT ride a few days later...Two 'incidents' with the same rider's interface with his bicycle in just a few days of high profile, high dollar televised racing. Made me wonder. (what kinda gruppo was he riding when he had two incidents close together)..Ya think he was all cross-chained during his TT ride, too?

Did he have a low battery on some DA electric 12...Was he riding some untried new devlopment we'll be seeing soon? Is he just a lame bike shifter like some people say...Coulda been any of those..that is what I was asking.. At least I know now he was riding on Sram red. And I know I saw him have some problems.. 1+1 might indeed equal 2...could be anyhow. If there is a problem with the Sram Red, of course they will never admit it anyhow, they will just quietly fix it. If Schlecky keeps having problems shifting, he probably won't get re-employed as a bike racer ever again....yeah, right.

There have been some relativly big changes available in componentry 'recently'. Sram coming on Mainstream, Shimano going Electric. Everyone adding more cogs, swapping over to various BBs, etc etc. Curiosity caused me to ask


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## chocy (Feb 4, 2009)

remember Schleck also had to change his bike on the last day due to "drive terrain" issues. that makes 3 incidents within a week. I have SRAM force and it hasn't failed me like that at least not yet. In fact it has been great.


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## robdamanii (Feb 13, 2006)

Schleck is the only rider to have "major" issues with his gruppo, as everyone is putting it.

Do you think that on 3 bikes, the only common denominator is...Schleck?


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## Gnarly 928 (Nov 19, 2005)

robdamanii said:


> Schleck is the only rider to have "major" issues with his gruppo, as everyone is putting it.
> 
> Do you think that on 3 bikes, the only common denominator is...Schleck?


 Schleck is the only guy in Second Place that was being shown all the time on TV, that the media was paying attention to, that had 3 drive line problems with his Sram.. There is no mention of others having similar problems, but who knows? They don't much talk about what happens with the other 150 guys 'also riding' in the Tour..

Maybe Andy just forgot how to shift good. He is kinda a rookie...maybe when he grows up he'll get it right...Or maybe 3 bike problems (I didn't see the last one) was not just a far-fetched coincidence..


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## stevesbike (Jun 3, 2002)

Gnarly 928 said:


> Schleck is the only guy in Second Place that was being shown all the time on TV, that the media was paying attention to, that had 3 drive line problems with his Sram.. There is no mention of others having similar problems, but who knows? They don't much talk about what happens with the other 150 guys 'also riding' in the Tour..
> 
> Maybe Andy just forgot how to shift good. He is kinda a rookie...maybe when he grows up he'll get it right...Or maybe 3 bike problems (I didn't see the last one) was not just a far-fetched coincidence..


yeah, I'm sure a guy who has been riding 20-35 hours/week for the better part of ten years hasn't figured out how to double-tap a shifter yet.


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## sanrensho (Jan 2, 2003)

Gnarly 928 said:


> Remember when Shimano first went to 10sp and the chains were breaking...more so than before? If I recall correctly, some pro rider broke a 10 speed chain, on TV even, while leading a Spring Classic race. Then soon after that incident, the chains stopped breaking....


Which race/year was that? I remember Cancellara breaking his SRAM Red chain at the Tour of Flanders in 2009. Teams were running Shimano 10S chains on SRAM drivetrains for awhile.


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## mtbbmet (Apr 2, 2005)

I've watched that footage at least 2 dozen times. I see no indication that he's shifting. What I do see though, is that he was in his 39-12, and his chain came off from the bottom as he put his left leg down.
People are also assuming that he hit a bump. I don't think that was the case.
Here is what I think happened.
He was cross chained. As he dropped his left leg the force he put into the system casued either the crank, frame, or both, to flex. This movement would have caused the trailing edge of the large chainring closer to the chainstay. There is a pin there to assist in shifting. His chain caught hold of the ramping pin and pulled his chain upwards to the point of winding the chain and causing his rear derailleur to extend towards the stay. As he was still putting down force, this jammed chain would have stopped the crank from going down and his motions would have forced the rear wheel upwards. As the rear wheel came back down on the road the chain released and dropped off from the bottom. So the chain watcher he had installed would have done nothing to prevent this from happening.
That is my version anyway. Obviously just speculation, much like every other opinion on the matter.
So in short, AS caused his own problems by cross chaining. No mechanic to fault, and no company to blame.


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## pretender (Sep 18, 2007)

Zinn holds the rear derailleur design partly to blame:

_LZ’s Schleck chain-drop theory in a nutshell: ‘twas a perfect storm of upshifting under load with a derailleur that has a big loop on it to snag the cogset when the chain drops off the bottom to the inside of the small chainring._
http://velonews.competitor.com/2010...d-zinn-why-did-schlecks-chain-come-off_130090


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## Gnarly 928 (Nov 19, 2005)

stevesbike said:


> yeah, I'm sure a guy who has been riding 20-35 hours/week for the better part of ten years hasn't figured out how to double-tap a shifter yet.


 Quite a few of the posts here suggest that AS shifted his own chain right off by doing it wrong..I guess that would be similar to not figuring out how to work it right, if you buy into the "No design problems...only Andy Schleck problems" theory...

Just being sarcastic when I said he must be a rookie...Oh..never mind...Sram it was..fault causing is un-provable..


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## Frank-L (May 7, 2009)

Gnarly 928 said:


> Coulda been any of those..that is what I was asking.. At least I know now he was riding on Sram red. And I know I saw him have some problems.. 1+1 might indeed equal 2...could be anyhow. If there is a problem with the Sram Red, of course they will never admit it anyhow, they will just quietly fix it. If Schlecky keeps having problems shifting, he probably won't get re-employed as a bike racer ever again....yeah, right.
> 
> There have been some relativly big changes available in componentry 'recently'. Sram coming on Mainstream, Shimano going Electric. Everyone adding more cogs, swapping over to various BBs, etc etc. Curiosity caused me to ask


Gnarly928-
In the final stage, when Contador and Andy sprinted away together (as a joke), did you notice that Andy had a problem with his bike? He kept looing at his drivetrain/chain/derailleur and shortly afterwards he changed bikes. That was before Champs Elysées of course. Saw this on the french-tv feed on Canal Evasion in Montreal.
Don't want to add fuel to the fire but it appeared something was not running smoothly then.

Frank


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