# 11-28 Cassette



## ebnash (Aug 20, 2007)

Anyone out there running this cassette? I recently received a Jamis Eclipse as a gift and it has Ultegra compact drivetrain with an 11-25 cassette. After a couple weeks of riding, felt I could use a lower 1st gear for steep climbs and after doing some research, I found that a lot of the compact drivetrains run an 11-28 cassette.

I went down and purchsed an Ultegra cassette and slapped it on and all havoc broke loose. I could not get shifting right, limits were way off, and front deraileur had to be completely reset up. Ultimately, I put the old cassette back on and got everything dialed in again and am wondering what the hell was going on.

1. I was surprised when the index alignment was off. I have other bikes with multiple wheelsets and dedicated cassettes and never have to make adjustments between wheel swaps.

2. Wheels are mavic Ksyrium SL's and I have the provided 10spd spacer installed. New ultegra cassette came with another small spacer, but I wasn't using it on the first cassette so I left it off. After nothing lined up, I installed the extra spaceer and nothing lined up again so i went through deraileur set up and could never get it quite right and gave up.

Anyone else running an 11-28 cassette with compact set up front???

Thanks,
Erik


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## drmayer (Mar 24, 2009)

Yep, 11-28 with a 50/34 up front. 

No issues. 

Your chain length may need to be re-evaluated.


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## Special Eyes (Feb 2, 2011)

What DrMayer said.

Lots of stock bikes come equipped with 50/34 and 11-28, such as my Spec Roubaix. Without being there, I can't know what the problem is, but do know there should not be one. Bring it to a mechanic?


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## RJP Diver (Jul 2, 2010)

I switch back and forth between 11-28 and 12-25 cassettes on 105 and Rival equipped bikes with no problems at all.


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## onespeedbiker (May 28, 2007)

It sounds like a mismatch between the shifter and cassette; one being 9 speed and one 10. You might want to re-check that..


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## Cni2i (Jun 28, 2010)

As others have already stated, a compact 50/34 should would perfectly fine with an 11-28 cassette. Have this same setup on my "climbing" bike. No problems with shifting whatsoever (running Sram Red with an Ultegra cassette).


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## MerlinAma (Oct 11, 2005)

drmayer said:


> Yep, 11-28 with a 50/34 up front.
> 
> No issues.
> 
> Your chain length may need to be re-evaluated.


Agree. I set my chain length to work with 11-28 but actually ride 11-23 most of the time.

Both cassettes work well.


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## robdamanii (Feb 13, 2006)

The 11-28 will work fine, but I prefer the gaps in a 12-27 instead.


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## dcgriz (Feb 13, 2011)

ebnash said:


> Anyone out there running this cassette? I recently received a Jamis Eclipse as a gift and it has Ultegra compact drivetrain with an 11-25 cassette. After a couple weeks of riding, felt I could use a lower 1st gear for steep climbs and after doing some research, I found that a lot of the compact drivetrains run an 11-28 cassette.
> 
> I went down and purchsed an Ultegra cassette and slapped it on and all havoc broke loose. I could not get shifting right, limits were way off, and front deraileur had to be completely reset up. Ultimately, I put the old cassette back on and got everything dialed in again and am wondering what the hell was going on.
> 
> ...


The 11-28 needs the 6700 rear dérailleur to work properly. The 27t and below do not. Check to see what model dérailleur you have.


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## robdamanii (Feb 13, 2006)

dcgriz said:


> The 11-28 needs the 6700 rear dérailleur to work properly. The 27t and below do not. Check to see what model dérailleur you have.


I've run a 28 tooth with a 7800 and 6600 rear derailleur just fine before. The 1 tooth difference really doesn't matter that much.


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## ebnash (Aug 20, 2007)

dcgriz said:


> The 11-28 needs the 6700 rear dérailleur to work properly. The 27t and below do not. Check to see what model dérailleur you have.


The bike is brand new and is full 6700 Ultegra, other than the FSA SLK crankset. I removed a 6700 11-25 cassette and replaced with a 6700 11-28 cassette and nothing else. Maybe I got a bad cassette because after installing the new cassette on the freehub with just the Mavic 10spd spacer, the 11 tooth gear was flush with the freehub. Usually it sits a little higher so that the lock nut tightens against the cassette, and not the freehub.

Sorry if that does not make sense, but for some reason the new cassette had different dimensions than the old one...


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## Yamabushi (Sep 30, 2008)

robdamanii said:


> The 11-28 will work fine, but I prefer the gaps in a 12-27 instead.


I ride a full size crank with 12-28 for precisely this reason. I was on 105-5700 and now on DA-7900. No issues with either.


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## robdamanii (Feb 13, 2006)

ebnash said:


> The bike is brand new and is full 6700 Ultegra, other than the FSA SLK crankset. I removed a 6700 11-25 cassette and replaced with a 6700 11-28 cassette and nothing else. Maybe I got a bad cassette because after installing the new cassette on the freehub with just the Mavic 10spd spacer, the 11 tooth gear was flush with the freehub. Usually it sits a little higher so that the lock nut tightens against the cassette, and not the freehub.
> 
> Sorry if that does not make sense, but for some reason the new cassette had different dimensions than the old one...


Check to make sure the cassette isn't moving around on the hub. You may need another spacer on there if that's the case.


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## cxwrench (Nov 9, 2004)

shimano cassette on mavic wheel needs both the mavic spacer AND the shimano spacer. you may need to adjust your derailleur, but i wouldn't think so. i have absolutely no idea on earth why you'd have to adjust your FRONT derailleur...that makes no sense at all.


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## onespeedbiker (May 28, 2007)

ebnash said:


> The bike is brand new and is full 6700 Ultegra, other than the FSA SLK crankset. I removed a 6700 11-25 cassette and replaced with a 6700 11-28 cassette and nothing else. Maybe I got a bad cassette because after installing the new cassette on the freehub with just the Mavic 10spd spacer, the 11 tooth gear was flush with the freehub. Usually it sits a little higher so that the lock nut tightens against the cassette, and not the freehub.
> 
> Sorry if that does not make sense, but for some reason the new cassette had different dimensions than the old one...


Did you remember to install the Mavic Spacer? If your lockring is not against the cassette that it will not be able to tighten the cassette in place. If that's the case, your cassette cogs are probably moving around which is why the indexing is so far off.


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## Yamabushi (Sep 30, 2008)

I've got to agree with the three previous posts. This sounds like a spacer issue.


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## Al1943 (Jun 23, 2003)

Be sure that the wheel is fully seated in the dropouts. The bike needs to be upright with wheels on the ground when installing wheels.

You need both the Mavic and Shimano spacers behind the cassette.


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## ebnash (Aug 20, 2007)

Ok, back to the start again.

The bike is brand new and in its showroom configuration (with no shifting issues) it had Ultegra 6700 11-25 cassette with Mavic spacer installed and *NO* Shimano shim. 

I purchased a 6700 11-28 cassette, removed the rear wheel and 11-25 cassette leaving the Mavic spacer in place, I first installed the new 11-28 cassette without the supplied shimano shim because this is how I found my original set up. I noticed when I tightened the lock ring, that I did not get the ratcheting action which suggests the lock ring did not make contact with the outer cog on the cassette. Cassette had no play so I installed it on the bike to find the spacing off.

I removed the wheel again and this time installed the supplied shimano shim, this time getting the ratcheting action during lock ring tightening. Installed the wheel and found spacing to be off.

To the earlier poster who asked why I had to make adjustments on the the front deraileur. If my hi and low limits on my rear deraileur have to be adjusted because of a spacing change, and now I have interference on the front derailuer when I am in my hi and low cogs, then I would also need to adjust the front to eliminate interference, correct?

Anyways, after dicking around with trying to get the drivetrain set up and having no luck, I re-installed the original 6700 11-25 cassette without shimano space shim, went through deraileur set up and rode 40 miles yesterday with no issues.

I am currently having a dura ace/hed wheelset built, so I will give it another go when I get these wheels on the bike...


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## cxwrench (Nov 9, 2004)

it sounds like whoever did the initial set up on the bike left the shimano spacer (which, as many of us have said is needed, contrary to your experience) out. it is possible to adjust the rear derailleur so it will work just fine w/o the spacer, but the cage can get too close to the spokes and possibly hit them when in the largest cog. this combination has been used thousands and thousands of times and works. if you can't get a shimano cassette on a mavic wheel with BOTH required spacers to shift correctly, take it to the a shop and have them do it, preferably not the shop that originally left the shimano spacer out.


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## ebnash (Aug 20, 2007)

*Bad Cassette...*

Well,
This afternoon, I pulled the both cassettes off and did some side by side measurements with a digital caliper and micrometer and found a couple carrier dimensions that did not match up. Took both cassettes down to the shop and pulled another new 11-28 cassette off the shelf and the dimensions matched my old 11-25 cassette.

Took it home and slapped it on without the Shimano spacer and everything lined up with no adjustments.

As for spoke clearance, I just read your post and went and took a measurement of der. cage clearance with the chain in the largest rear cog and I have over 1/2 inch clearance so I am not too concerned. I will check this again when I get my new Wheelset as it has a higher spoke count and clearance may be less. If so, I will install the spacer and re-adjust.

Long story short, there was a flaw in the new 6700 cassette I purchased, go figure...


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## Yamabushi (Sep 30, 2008)

Wow, that's a surprising conclusion!


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## cxwrench (Nov 9, 2004)

yeah, that's pretty surprising. i guess it's not out of the realm of possiblity, but i've never seen that happen before. glad you figured it out.


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## onespeedbiker (May 28, 2007)

Well, either there is something wrong with your 11-28 cassette or it's user error (that's you BTW). Anyway, Mavi hubs use their ring to be compatible with 8/9 speed cassettes. The Shimano 10 speed system is a little shorter than the earlier 8/9 standard, meaning you can use the 10 speed cassettes on older Shimano 8/9 speed hubs with the spacer, but you can't use the older 8/9 speed cassettes on the new 10 speed only hubs. So the short answer is you need to use both spacers. However you say you already using both spacers and it's not working. My next suggestion is to a) line up both your cassettes on a level surface and place a level on the top (or use a caliper if you have one) to make sure they are equal. 2) try another 6700 cassette; 

Edit, well it looks like I had the answer, just way too late


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## Drew Eckhardt (Nov 11, 2009)

ebnash said:


> Anyone out there running this cassette? I recently received a Jamis Eclipse as a gift and it has Ultegra compact drivetrain with an 11-25 cassette. After a couple weeks of riding, felt I could use a lower 1st gear for steep climbs and after doing some research, I found that a lot of the compact drivetrains run an 11-28 cassette.


If you need the 28 big cog you're in no position to make effective use of an 11 or 12 cog and ought to run something like 13-14-15-16-17-19-21-23-26-29 or at least SRAM's 12-13-14-15-16-17-19-21-23-28.

If you want something like 50-34x11-28 you're better off with a triple (sorry SRAM) where the gears are 

53-39-28 x 12-13-14-15-16-17-18-19-21-23 
not
50-34 x 11-12-13-14-15-17-19-21-24-28 

with no 16 or 18. The triple also lets you put 20-50% more power into overcoming aerodynamic drag before you shift to the big ring (on the triple middle ring the chain angle is less severe when using the small cog than small/small on the double and you might use it).


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## cxwrench (Nov 9, 2004)

Drew Eckhardt said:


> If you need the 28 big cog *you're in no position to make effective use of an 11 or 12 cog* and ought to run something like 13-14-15-16-17-19-21-23-26-29 or at least SRAM's 12-13-14-15-16-17-19-21-23-28.


excuse me, but who exactly made you the authority on what cogs someone 'can make effective use of'? it sounds like maybe he climbs like i do (slowly) and likes to pedal on the downhills. i'm pretty sure you'd drop me on any climb, but i seriously doubt you'd outsprint me...and there's now way i'd give up my 11. am i in the wrong because i don't climb in the 25 or 23?
of course i could be wrong, and maybe the OP will agree w/ you, but i just think it's kinda lame of you to assume what gears the guy is 'strong enough' to use.


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## Slow Ride (Jul 10, 2008)

Also, an 11-28 vs a 13-28 (29) gives wider range to both chainrings of a double (or compact), which means less cross chain situations, particularly with the smaller chainring.


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## Drew Eckhardt (Nov 11, 2009)

Slow Ride said:


> Also, an 11-28 vs a 13-28 (29) gives wider range to both chainrings of a double (or compact), which means less cross chain situations, particularly with the smaller chainring.


I've been riding 50-34 x 13-14-15-16-17-18-19-21 9 cogs for years and the cross-chaining is fine. 13-14-15-16-17-19-21-23-26-29 10 cogs would shift the cruising cogs closer to the middle for even better chain lines.

With a properly lubricated chain it's quiet enough in 50x21 or 34x14. In spite of all the miles in those gears chain wear is not yet measurable at 4000 miles.

With 13-14-15-16-17-19-21-23-26-29 your big ring cruising gears (17-19-21) are nearly in the middle of the cassette and your next gear after 50x26 would be 34x19 which at 6 cogs in is closer to the middle than with an 11 starting cog where its 7th.


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## ZoSoSwiM (Mar 7, 2008)

Only trouble I have swapping between my 11-23, 12-25, and 11-28 is the B-limit adjustment. Otherwise shifting is the same between the cassettes.

Could it be differences in models or brand?


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## Slow Ride (Jul 10, 2008)

Anyway, I digressed from OP. I agree about spacer check. My experience is both cassettes should shift equally well.


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## austincrx (Oct 22, 2008)

Drew Eckhardt said:


> If you need the 28 big cog you're in no position to make effective use of an 11 or 12 cog and ought to run something like 13-14-15-16-17-19-21-23-26-29 or at least SRAM's 12-13-14-15-16-17-19-21-23-28.
> 
> If you want something like 50-34x11-28 you're better off with a triple (sorry SRAM) where the gears are
> 
> ...




That's interesting because I use an 11-28 all the time and find it very useful when I am faced with 20+ percent grades. And I use the 11 tooth cog in most of my sprints, but I'm not rocking a 50-34, I've got a 53-39 on my bike. You know, not everyone is a 'climber' per say and I've actually never used the 28 in races, except when I got dropped on the final climb of a mountain top finish or something like that. The 39x28 gear ratio is 1.393, where as the 34x25 gear ratio is 1.36 so you're pretty close with a 25 tooth cog on the rear and a compact crank. Keep in mind that if you ever want to spin up a hill and you're running a 23 tooth cog, it's going to be more difficult no matter how you look at it, compact crank or not.

Anyway, I rock an 11-28 on all my bikes, mostly because I'd like to keep everythign the same to make it easier to switch things out when one cassette gets worn and I don't want to blow $100 at my LBS on a new cassette. I'd rather put the cassette from my 'cross wheels on to my training wheels and wait a week on a new $65 cassette to come in that I ordered online.

P.S. I think Drew must live near Miami.


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## ebnash (Aug 20, 2007)

Drew Eckhardt said:


> If you need the 28 big cog you're in no position to make effective use of an 11 or 12 cog and ought to run something like 13-14-15-16-17-19-21-23-26-29 or at least SRAM's 12-13-14-15-16-17-19-21-23-28.
> 
> If you want something like 50-34x11-28 you're better off with a triple (sorry SRAM) where the gears are
> 
> ...


Something to consider here is that my roadbike is a training bike for me and I normally ride MTB's as well as race XC. I weigh 220 lbs, so overcoming aerodynamic drag is really not a concern of mine. I am powerful in the flats and am a decent climber, but just wanted to little extra low gear to deal with situations when I hit short steeps. I have some grades around here that hit 16+% for a 100 yards or so and I don't carry uphill speed very well at my weight.


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## Pitts Pilot (Dec 5, 2011)

I run a triple AND the 11-28. 70% of the time I'm climbing steep. 25% of the time I'm descending steep and like to pedal down. I need the big cog AND make effective use of the 11.


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## NJBiker72 (Jul 9, 2011)

Pitts Pilot said:


> I run a triple AND the 11-28. 70% of the time I'm climbing steep. 25% of the time I'm descending steep and like to pedal down. I need the big cog AND make effective use of the 11.


I agree with this. Very hilly here. I like to be able to spin up the hills maintaining a good cadence. Then on downhill and flats, the 11 is nice.


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## ziscwg (Apr 19, 2010)

cxwrench said:


> excuse me, but who exactly made you the authority on what cogs someone 'can make effective use of'? it sounds like maybe he climbs like i do (slowly) and likes to pedal on the downhills. i'm pretty sure you'd drop me on any climb, but i seriously doubt you'd outsprint me...and there's now way i'd give up my 11. am i in the wrong because i don't climb in the 25 or 23?
> of course i could be wrong, and maybe the OP will agree w/ you, but i just think it's kinda lame of you to assume what gears the guy is 'strong enough' to use.


I agree. He should come ride around here and see if his 13 tooth cog leaves him spinning on some of the downhills.

Oh and to be up front, I run an 11-32 compact. Love them 4200 ft mtn around here.


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## darwinosx (Oct 12, 2010)

drmayer said:


> Yep, 11-28 with a 50/34 up front.
> 
> No issues.
> 
> Your chain length may need to be re-evaluated.


Same. No issues.


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## meat (Aug 10, 2006)

I picked up 1n 11-28 for Ride the Rockies last year. I enjoyed the 28 while spinning at altitude. Most of the climbs here in the Sierras of Central California I am okay with the 24. The last epic climbing ride I did (95 miles and 9,000 feet of climbing) I found myself in the 28 on the last two climbs and was very thankful I had it. My buddy with his 25 was deep into the pain cave and now has 28 as well.


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## jays35 (Feb 1, 2009)

I have one with a 53-39 up front. Works great for the flats!


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## Trek2.3 (Sep 13, 2009)

On my European Touring bike, I run an 11-28 converted into a 12-32 by removing the 11 and adding a 32. It works properly and is nice on the hills.


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## Guest (Jan 10, 2012)

> If you need the 28 big cog you're in no position to make effective use of an 11 or 12 cog and ought to run something like 13-14-15-16-17-19-21-23-26-29 or at least SRAM's 12-13-14-15-16-17-19-21-23-28.
> 
> If you want something like 50-34x11-28 you're better off with a triple (sorry SRAM) where the gears are
> 
> ...


In a previous bike I had 52-39-30 triple with 12-23, 10sp. 

I currently have 50-36 / 11-28 10sp (SRAM in case you were wondering)

By choosing a 36t ring instead of the usual 34, the relative change in ratio with a front-shift is the same as with a 53-39 crankset. It becomes possible to develop more speed in the small ring, so the amount of front shifting needed is reduced. The shifts themselves are also smoother. The 36/13-14-15 gears are essentially the same as the 39/14-15-16 (my most frequently used riding gears with the triple-crank bike) The 36/28 lowest gear is equivalent to 30/23. The 50/11 highest gear is equivalent to 53/12. 

The biggest difference is that gear jumps are bigger at the low end for climbing, but IMO this isn't a huge deal -- on difficult climbs with sharp curves and changing gradients I'm likely to be alternating between sitting and standing, and will be changing cadence a lot anyway. Small gear jumps are mostly important to me for steady-speed riding on the flats where I like get my cadence into a rhythm. 

For mountains/hills I actually prefer the compact crank setup in that I can hop back and forth between my usual climbing gears (36/17-19-21) and my SHTF uphill-into-a-headwind 'bailout' gears (36/24-28) with rear shifting only, rather than needing to front-shift between the granny and middle rings. 

The only thing I really miss from the triple setup is the 16t gear for flat tempo riding in the big ring. It's on these sorts of rides where where I'm both trying to dial in a metronome-like cadence and actually riding fast enough to want to be in 50/15-[16]-17 gears. Most of the time I'm using my tallest gears I'm in a decline, tailwind, or sprint situation and maintaining a steady cadence is not usually essential.

I suppose I have something to look forward to when 11sp hits the market. 

In the meantime, a potential solution I thought of may be to pick up a spare wheel with a 12-23 cassette for intense flatland riding, and use the 11-28 for mountain / hilly rides. 

I actually have a question about that myself -- would it be possible to swap from 11-28 and 12-23 by simply swapping wheels without needing to re-tune of the rear derailleur? I'd be willing to accept having to change the b-limit screw slightly (I'd probably figure out a way to mark the ideal "setpoints" for one cassette or the other), but will abandon the idea if more to it than that is required.


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