# climbing training ..better big gears or spinning?



## slamy (Mar 15, 2004)

I did some hard hill training with some friends the other day. I had a 11x23 cassette on and while some of the steeper sections were hard, I was able to stand and churn my way up. I have a better hill climbing cassette, but I was wondering for training to do some climbing centuries in the future, would I be better off turning big gears up the hills or spinning?


----------



## loneclimber (Feb 2, 2011)

Spinning will be better in all areas! It will also benefit your knees. There are different cog ratios that can benefit climbing and flat so that you don't get dropped after the climb.

If you want both worlds train hard on a good cog set with a standard setup in the front.


----------



## Hank Stamper (Sep 9, 2009)

I look at riding hills as 'practice' not training per se. Your legs get trained on any riding surface. So I'd use my time on hill practicing how to best get up them.
What cadance you use is a matter of personal preference that you'll need to figure out for yourself. The length of the hill has a lot to do with if spinning or grinding is better also.


----------



## kmunny19 (Aug 13, 2008)

Hank Stamper said:


> I look at riding hills as 'practice' not training per se. Your legs get trained on any riding surface. So I'd use my time on hill practicing how to best get up them.
> What cadance you use is a matter of personal preference that you'll need to figure out for yourself. The length of the hill has a lot to do with if spinning or grinding is better also.


agreed. get to a preferred exertion level (via, heartrate, power, perception, however you like) for a particular type of hill in different gears to see what gear gets you up fastest. it will take some repetition but you'll get the idea of what way is best for you to ride different types of hills the quickest.


----------



## slegros (Sep 22, 2009)

Dr. Ferrari has found a relationship between ideal climbing cadence and power output:


http://www.53x12.com/do/show?page=article&id=27


----------



## Ventruck (Mar 9, 2009)

Just like on flats: if you learn to mash, you'll find spinning difficult and vice versa. But apparently, as the test above points out, it's more ideal(as in, if you can, not something to force upon individual physical limits) to spin. 

As a loser with asthma, sometimes mashing (60rpm) on climbs is doing me a favor and at those times I'd rather invest in outputting force instead of cadence for power. Maybe I'm seeing things wrong, but my lungs go bonkers when I spin. Intervals of me trying to spin a heavier gear has been somewhat helping me progress. Some spinning + heavier gear = shorter and faster climb? Of course I'm not trying to break my legs. "heavier" is in relative terms against a single gear before.


----------



## slamy (Mar 15, 2004)

slegros said:


> Dr. Ferrari has found a relationship between ideal climbing cadence and power output:
> 
> 
> http://www.53x12.com/do/show?page=article&id=27



Wow, that is exactly what I was looking for. So it seems focusing more on smaller gears and spinning would be better then trying to build up the muscle to power over climbs. Thanks for posting that.


----------



## chase196126 (Jan 4, 2008)

I think its a necessary skill to practice both kinds of climbing. 

When you have the option you should do whatever cadence your body prefers, but in a race you dont always have the option to spin 90 rpm up a super steep climb. Practice mashing some big gears every once and a while so your body isnt in total shock when the road goes from 8% to 14% and you have to do 60 rpm to keep moving. 

For example, today at my BISSELL team camp we did a long climb that ended with 10 minutes or so of very very steep road. I was doing just fine with the mellow grades, but when we hit the steep stuff I lacked a low enough gear to turn my legs over fast enough to produce good power (only had a 25 rather than a 27). With my body used to pushing a high cadence I couldnt even get myself to breath hard :S


----------



## spade2you (May 12, 2009)

chase196126 said:


> I think its a necessary skill to practice both kinds of climbing.


I agree completely. 

As for the decision to try some bigger gears in back, it never hurts to try. I'm guessing you could get a 27-12 (or whatever) and you probably won't need or miss your 11 on a century ride.


----------



## Poncharelli (May 7, 2006)

I'm kind of an "all-rounder" rider at my level, being that I'm pretty decent at most types of race courses, but not exceptional at anything (and really bad at TTs). 

But when I duke it out with the little climbers (long climbs is my 2nd biggest weakness), I find that it's best for me to sit in, stay within the front of the pack, spin at a high RPM (90-100), relax, and just dig deep to hold on. If the tempo varies, then I increase and decrease my spin to respond to speed variations. 

If I grind within the pack, then I find it more difficult to respond to speed variations. 

I run a compact crank (50-34) with an 11-25 cassette, and that seems to take care of the under-gearing issue with most race courses I do. But looking at some of my power data on a climbing course, I was surprised to see that on the critical climbs, when I was putting out maximum power (and just at the verge of getting dropped), I was around 100rpm. 

That's what I do to survive climbs in races. Which is probably not the same methodology for getting a PR on a solo climb TT.


----------



## Schmack (Mar 25, 2009)

My approach in training for hills has been to perform hill repeats outside and build strength outside by climbing in my smaller cogs. I then spend a bunch of time on the rollers spinning at higher cadence. When I am not performing a climbing spefic workout or ride, I try and keep my cadence high on the climbs. 

In the past it seems like this has given me the ability to spin on most climbs, but when things get really steep or I just need the extra power it's there for me to use. Not really claiming this is best, bit it seems to work pretty well for me. 

I would also think you would want to focus on the types of climbs you have in your area or will be riding. If you are doing an event with a super steep 3 mile climb you would want to train different than an event with a less steep 15 miler.

Just my $0.02.


----------



## Bridgey (Mar 26, 2003)

In training though, isn't riding some of your climbs at 60 to 70rpm's in a heavier gear good for strength training? I kind of like to mix it up. 1 rep easy high spinning 95 to 100rpms, the other grinding 60 to 75rpms. I naturally fall in between 75 to 95rpms when racing depending on the length and steepness of the climb. I hope to get the best of both worlds.


----------

