# Best (clincher) wheels for climbing?



## Florentinum (Oct 19, 2004)

Can anyone suggest which is the best set of lightweight wheels (clincher) for climbing, under $ 1,000 ?


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## Kerry Irons (Feb 25, 2002)

*Save your money*

Once you're under $1K and over $300, wheels are pretty much the same except for cost. The American Classic 350s are alternately reported to be nice or fragile. Otherwise, you will do just as well with a Record, Chorus, or DA hubs spoked to Velocity Aerohead or MAVIC OpenPro rims. The hub weights can only be beat by a few grams (note that Campy and Shimano quote hub weights WITH skewers and everyone else quotes WITHOUT) and the rest of the weight is in the rims. Go with 15/16 spokes, DT Revolutions, or Sapim XRays. I like the Aerohead OC so you can do a better rear wheel.


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## ekdave (Sep 6, 2002)

*Welcome to the DA/Open Pro/3x forum.*

This is the answer you will get around here.
DA/Open Pro or Aerohead/3 cross, double butted.


Ask folks at racer-oriented board and you might hear:
1. HED Alps.
2. Used set of Reynolds DV all-carbon clinchers
3. Zipp 303 Clinchers

Id personally go with A Shimano 7800 prebuilt set (if you are Shimano 10) or HED Alps if you intend to be climbing over say 10mph.

Really though, how often would you want an "only climbing" wheel? Ask yourself: Are you just being a weight-weenie, or do you want to ride faster?


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## divve (May 3, 2002)

Record 28h hubs
DT RR 1.1 28-h rims
CX-Ray spokes 3x lacing
Tune AC14 skewers (48g)

...sweet & simple


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## OnTheRivet (Sep 3, 2004)

*Good one, you beat me to it.*



ekdave said:


> This is the answer you will get around here.
> DA/Open Pro or Aerohead/3 cross, double butted.
> 
> 
> ...


Almost as bad as the Campy cult.


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## Juanmoretime (Nov 24, 2001)

*If you really want a set of wheels..*

I love my Eurus wheelset although I just bought a set of Rolf Prima Elan Aero's at 1290 grams per pair They are clinchers built with Sapam CXrays with 370 grams of rim weight. I've ridden them about 500 miles so far and they do accelerate quickly. I haven't been anywhere that I could really climb but they do work well on the small hills were I live. I paid $780 for mine at the Bicycle Doctor in Bloomington, Indiana. Do a google search, Steve will ship thhe to you.


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## PsyDoc (Feb 3, 2004)

*Given Peter White's article...*

...on DT's redesign/revision of their spoke elbows, I am not sure you would want to continue with their use, in some applications, or at least use a brass washer.

http://www.peterwhitecycles.com/DTspokes.htm


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## Kerry Irons (Feb 25, 2002)

*Could you be more specific?*

Just what exactly are the performance benefits of boutique wheels (in the under $1K class) over the standard built set? 100 grams (aka 3 swallows of water)?


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## OnTheRivet (Sep 3, 2004)

*With that kind of logic*



Kerry Irons said:


> Just what exactly are the performance benefits of boutique wheels (in the under $1K class) over the standard built set? 100 grams (aka 3 swallows of water)?


we'd still be riding 25lb road bikes. Also, I don't know if you noticed but with the advent of pre-built wheels most shops don't even stock many standard j-bend spokes anymore. On my last mission to build a set of cross wheels I went to 6 different shops to find some 14/15's in very standard road lengths and got blanked at every shop (ended up ordering them) but guess what, 4 of the 6 shops had Ksyrium spokes and 2 of those had a bunch of funky straight pull stuff. Has standard become non-standard?


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## ekdave (Sep 6, 2002)

*Id Like to propose a ban on pre-built bashing....*



Kerry Irons said:


> Just what exactly are the performance benefits of boutique wheels (in the under $1K class) over the standard built set? 100 grams (aka 3 swallows of water)?


Is that a question, or a statement?

** Id like to propose a roadbikereview ban of all the negative comments on (basically) all pre-built boutique wheels...... UNLESS the commenting person has experience riding said wheels.

I used to be a fan of DA/Open Pro/32/3x wheels. I even bashed "boutique" stuff much like Kerry does at every possible chance. That is, until I actually TRIED a set of Mavic Cosmic Carbones. Good god almighty. Those were the fastest goddamn wheels I had ridden. Then I tried some Zipp 404. I alsmost laughed out loud as I rode...nay....blazed, down the road. 

I still wasnt a "believer" I was still like Kerry. I would say "yeah, but my 32hole are more durable" Then I started working in a shop.

Then I realized that many pre-builts are in fact, very durable. One day it occured to me that I had trued up 15 wheels in one day. All were 32 or 36 hole. I began to realize over the course of months that by-golly, those damn 32 and 36 hole wheels were nothing but trouble.

Now when someone asks me what is THE most durable, trouble free wheel, I tell them the truth. Mavic Ksyrium. Not the fastest wheel, but the most durable. And if they dont like them, then csan resell them for 90% of original price. Unlike hand builts which are essentially worthless after a few months.

THE END.

And so concludes my posts to RBR. Farewell. Its overrun with retro grouches. Im off to Velonews from now on.


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## gogogomoveit (Nov 20, 2003)

*I would say...*

Get something that gives you tangible difference (aka placebo effect). Tangible difference means weight, appearance, and riding feel. Buy whatever you think it will make your riding expereince more fun, and forget about whatever advantage the wheel claims. Trust me, this will save you a lot of frowns. After all, it is you, the rider, that is pushing the wheel. If you use Zipp 404 and dumped a dude on DA/OPs on the climb, it is not the wheel, it is the you. The reverse is even more true.

As per your question, I would either get Cosmic Carbone or Campy Proton, depends on whether you are an aero guy or weight weenie. I have ridden neither of both, but as I have said, they will only make me look fast  

Yup, those who say DA/OPs are slow havent really watched Paris-Roubaix. Those who said Carbone Cosmics arent fast havent seen Paolo Bettini ride. After all, the only pair of wheel you need is the pair that is durable, stiff and not brick heavy.


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## russw19 (Nov 27, 2002)

gogogomoveit said:


> Those who said Carbone Cosmics arent fast havent seen Paolo Bettini ride. After all, the only pair of wheel you need is the pair that is durable, stiff and not brick heavy.


So let me get this straight.... it's now your contention that Paolo Bettini is indeed not fast? And that he is only winning as many races as he is because he rides Carbone Cosmics? So are the wheels actually pedalling the bike for him now? 












yes, I am kidding!


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## gogogomoveit (Nov 20, 2003)

russw19 said:


> yes, I am kidding!


LOL russ. I guess either way will work. But I contend that Paolo is really fast, and the wheels make him look even faster.


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## OnTheRivet (Sep 3, 2004)

*Arrrrrggggghhhhh! Frickinn DT*



PsyDoc said:


> ...on DT's redesign/revision of their spoke elbows, I am not sure you would want to continue with their use, in some applications, or at least use a brass washer.
> 
> http://www.peterwhitecycles.com/DTspokes.htm


I bore the brunt of that fiasco a few years ago when I was building up some race wheels using ZIPP 360 tubies(404 rim) and Hugi 240 hubs. The maddening part was noticing the different length J bends on my own right before building the wheels, I called DT and was told to run washers under the heads of the longer j-bend spokes. Scr*w that, I told them where to go and returned the spokes.I ended up using Wheelsmiths, which was a blessing in disguise because they are a far superior product, nice even butts, none of the random butt lengths you find with DT. It's Wheelsmith and Sapim only now.


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## schills (Jan 16, 2002)

*Ksyriums*

I'm 180 lbs. 

I race, climb, and train on Ksyriums. 

I used to think about wheels all the time. Now I find I'm getting much stronger just by focusing on riding. Funny how the less I spend and the more I ride the faster I get. Unless you are a Pro or Cat 1 type it really won't make a difference, so buy what feels and looks good. Buy what is durable and buy what gets you excited. Thats what gets you out and riding.

Don't get me wrong, a new BMC frame would be sweet right now. I want one. But it won't make me any faster.


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## Kerry Irons (Feb 25, 2002)

*Price, not performance*

The point is not whether boutique wheels perform well. Most are well built, durable, and ride well. No question. And if you want aero benefits, you need a low spoke count and deep section rims. No question. The point is why anyone would be willing to pay several $100 for NO benefit. Prime example: MAVIC Ksyriums vs. a standard wheel.

Regards your departure - "And so concludes my posts to RBR. Farewell. Its overrun with retro grouches. Im off to Velonews from now on." Are you taking your baseball with you too?


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## Len J (Jan 28, 2004)

*Define Best.*



Florentinum said:


> Can anyone suggest which is the best set of lightweight wheels (clincher) for climbing, under $ 1,000 ?


Best for the money?
Lightest?
Most Durable?
Most Comfortable?
Combination of all?

As others have said in this thread, any wheel purchase (or any component for that matter) is a balance between weight, durability, comfort, and Price. Which is most important to you? From the way you phrased your question, it sounds like weight and price are more important than comfort or durability.

You can get OP's laced 32 spokes to a D/A or Record Hub or around $300 made by a master builder. Weight will be under 1500 grams with skewers. Durable as hell (if made right. I have two sets, One I made and one I bought from a master......over 5,000 miles on mediocre roads, on each set, one accident (t boned a car) and both are as true as the day I got them), reasonably light and comfortable as any wheel I've ever ridden. Still stiff enough for sprinting. I weigh 165 BTW.

You can get top of the line K's for around $800. the only differences from the OP's that I could detect in about 500 miles of riding was that they 1.) look better 2.) they are stiffer and therefor less comfortable than the OP's & 3.) they are slightly more aero due to the bladed spokes. My pair with skewers wighed around 1,550 grams. Remember, Aero really only has a significant advantage at speed over 25 MPH.

You can pick up a set of either Zipp 303's or 404's on e-bay for around $1,000 delivered. I have never ridden them but know many people who have. The 303's are lighter than either the K's or Op's but are less aero than the 404's (which is their deep rim profile whee)l. Both wheels are perported to be a reasonable balance of stiffness and comfort (due to being made of Caron fiber). Because they are Carbon Fiber, braking requires special brake pads and is less "sure" than with an aluminum rim. General opinion is that these are not durable enough for everyday riding (although some people do).

If money were no object I'd get Reynolds Cirro SV KOM (for around $1,300) if I needed event climbing wheels. Durable, light, comfortable, and stiff.

http://www.reynoldscomposites.com/Cirro-SVKOM.asp

Len


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## asgelle (Apr 21, 2003)

Len J said:


> Remember, Aero really only has a significant advantage at speed over 25 MPH.


That depends on how you define significant. At 25 mph, 78% of the rider's power goes to overcoming drag. At 18 mph that drops to 70%. Reducing drag by lowering C_dA by 5% drops the drag component to 77.3% at 25 mph and 69.2% at 18. Perhaps a better way to look at it is in increase in speed. The 25 mph rider increases speed by 1.7% going to the aero setup for the same power, while the 18 mph rider only increases his speed by 1.5%. Whether that 0.2% change is significant depends on the goals of the rider.

(calculations performed at analyticcycling.com using default parameters)


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## johnny99 (Apr 2, 2004)

Len J said:


> You can get OP's laced 32 spokes to a D/A or Record Hub or around $300 made by a master builder. Weight will be under 1500 grams with skewers.


Are you sure about that weight? That sounds about 300g low, especially if you use standard Shimano skewers. What kind of spokes did you use?


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## Len J (Jan 28, 2004)

*Nothing unusual*



johnny99 said:


> Are you sure about that weight? That sounds about 300g low, especially if you use standard Shimano skewers. What kind of spokes did you use?


14/15 DB spokes, rim tape and D/A skewers. Alloy nipples. thev've been weighed several times on several scales......always come in 1525 + or - 50 gram.......Point is their in the ball park with other Boutique wheelsets.

Len


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## B2 (Mar 12, 2002)

Hugi 240 / Open Pro / 32h / 3x / DT Revs / Alloy nipples

Had a set like this and they weighed 1552g. If I remember correctly, this was without skewers.

I could be wrong, but I think the DA/OP's with 32x3cross 14/15 DB spokes and brass nipples will run you around 1750g 

Bryan


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## Stinky Hippie (Jul 19, 2002)

*My Rolf Prima Elans have served me well.....*

....and they weigh in at 1350 grams with the supplied rimstrip. Very stiff. You should be able to find them for under $800. 





Florentinum said:


> Can anyone suggest which is the best set of lightweight wheels (clincher) for climbing, under $ 1,000 ?


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## clgtide1 (Jul 24, 2002)

*Ksyrium Sl or Zipp 303*



Florentinum said:


> Can anyone suggest which is the best set of lightweight wheels (clincher) for climbing, under $ 1,000 ?


I currently use my Ksyriums as an every day wheel. I got my set last year in December and they have been trouble free. They are Super Stiff but they seem to be the perfect match for my Ghisallo. On a stiff frameset I would imagine that some people would consider them a harsh ride. I have only trued them once in over 5000 miles and that was my fault due to an over the bars crash. I save my 303's for racing and other special occasions. The Zipp's are much more prone to cross winds. On a fast descent it is some what disconcerting to feel the bike moving around. We live in Chattanooga at the base of several tough climbs and I can honestly say that the Zipp's do seem to climb better but that may just be in my head since they are similar in weight. I do run Conti Supersonics on them so that does not hurt either. Overall if I had to chose it would be the Ksyriums based on less maintenance and lower cost....Eyeing a set of 202 tubulars but have to sell the 303's first....


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## russw19 (Nov 27, 2002)

gogogomoveit said:


> LOL russ. I guess either way will work. But I contend that Paolo is really fast, and the wheels make him look even faster.


Well DAMN! I was gonna go get me some of them wheels if they could make me as fast as Paolo!

Now you gotta go crushing my renewed pro dreams......

My bike already looks fast... that is until I climb my ass onto it.

Russ


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## Dinosaur (Jan 29, 2004)

*Mavic Open Pro's/Chorus Hubs-the old standard*

I do a lot of climbing (not by choice) and have had good luck with plain old Mavic Open Pro's 32 laced to Chorus Hubs. Cambria Bicycle Outfitters has them on sale for $249.95(32/3x/Wheelsmith 14/45db (regular price $349.95). This is a good deal, I got mine for $300.00 (on sale) when I bought my new ride in '02. 

I don't know anything about "Boutique Wheels", I don't know if the Rolf Vector Comps I have on my old Klein would qualify in the "Boutique" catagory. They have a low spoke count, I don't know what they weigh, but they don't do zip to help my climbing. I think they might make more of a difference with descending as my Klein can zip through curves a couple of MPH faster than my Colnago Master X-Light. It might have something to do about aerodynamics. However the Rolf's spend more time on my truing stand.

If it was me, I'd go with something that has been around awhile, replacement rims are easy to find and they don't cost an arm or leg to replace. I gotta think also that a lot of it depends on who builds your wheels.

Keep in mind that climbing means a lot of descending and you want a wheel that will hold up. Most mountain roads have their share of potholes and washboard sections. 


Gotta think also, in all the riding I have done in the Sierra Nevada western slope foothills, it ain't the wheels that make you fast, it's the engine. Wheels won't make you climb faster, you want something strong and will hold up (did I say that before?).


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## Dinosaur (Jan 29, 2004)

*DT spokes*



PsyDoc said:


> ...on DT's redesign/revision of their spoke elbows, I am not sure you would want to continue with their use, in some applications, or at least use a brass washer.
> 
> http://www.peterwhitecycles.com/DTspokes.htm



I read this article also (after I had my rear rim rebuilt with DT 14/15 db spokes). For what it's worth- I have not had any more or less problems with my wheel than my old Wheelsmith built wheels. Mine are laced to OP 32's.

I like the section about fitting, this guy makes a lot of sense.


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## novice (Mar 12, 2004)

how about:

ird cadence rims
am classic hubs
wheelsmith 14/17 db spokes (24/28)
1382 grams on my scale

from www.oddsandendos.com

then get the titanium quick release skewers (75ish grams) for the extra $10
total $404 delivered, if i remember correctly


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## Florentinum (Oct 19, 2004)

*Very interesting...*

Very interesting replies, and I understand I've not been clear in posting my question: I have a Colnago C50/record, and in the original setup I've chosen a set of handbuit record/Ambrosio Excellight/32 3x with ACI spokes (weighting approx 1,900g) since I'm heavy (200 lbs.) and usually train on less than perfect roads. Few weeks ago I've had the occasion to test a set of Hyperion carbon wheels on a 14km climb (slope 6% average/11%max), and even at my heavy weight I've noticed the difference.
Now, since the Hyperion are unreachable (even here in Italy), I was guessing if there was a good wheelset of approx. 1500g to be used when climbing (not when training) for less than 1K $...
Thanks everyone


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## Dinosaur (Jan 29, 2004)

*I can see what you are saying...*

I weigh 205/210 (winter) and I'm very hard on wheels. My main problem is finding a good wheel builder. The owner of my LBS used to make custom wheels, but he is too busy make them the way his business is growing. 

My second bike I use for winter is a '99 Klein Quantum Race and it weights about 2 pounds less than my Colnago Master X-Light. Yesterday I decided to go for a short easy ride and just set my computer on the clock setting and did not worry about time or speed. When I got to my turn-around point, I checked my time and realized I had broken my time record for that distance (ten miles). I don't know why the Klein is faster than the Colnago, I don't think it has anything to do about the wheels. 

Maybe you should have titled your post "best set of clincher wheels for under 1K". I'd take a look at the Mavic Ksyrium SL's. They can be had for around $700.00 (Chorus hubs).

I wish I had your problem. Good luck with your research.


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## sbindra (Oct 18, 2004)

*Another Vote for Topos*

Finally got my Topolino's this weekend. At 1,390 grams, these things are made for climbing. Stiff and light, these things are a pleasure. Think I'll look for hills more often.


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