# Spesh Carbon Fork Expansion Plug issue...



## roadworthy (Nov 11, 2011)

*Thread deleted...*

Thanks to Bikerjulio and PJ and Steffo for your good advice. I want you to know I appreciate your comments and your advice is most helpful. 

Decided to delete the thread because of excessive trolling and to spare the board such needless hostility.

I will let you guys know how it goes via PM.
Thanks again.


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## bikerjulio (Jan 19, 2010)

the tapered plug at the bottom is holding the sleeve in place.

without the top plug, screw the bolt into the bottom plug but only a couple of turns.

tap gently to release the bottom plug.

pull everything out and start again with the complete assembly loosely screwed together.


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## roadworthy (Nov 11, 2011)

Thread deleted.


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## -dustin (Jan 11, 2009)

You're thinking too much. Back the threaded piece out and hit it. 

If that really isn't working, get a scratch awl and pick at the slotted sleeve to loosen it a little. Then hit it.


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## roadworthy (Nov 11, 2011)

Thread deleted.


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## bikerjulio (Jan 19, 2010)

With the bolt backed out could you try using a regular bearing puller on the top piece?


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## PJ352 (Dec 5, 2007)

roadworthy said:


> Once the top cap is off and likely destroyed, now time to get serious with removing the bottom plug. This is going to take big force...and not pounding on the screw. * I will remove the screw and place the fork legs on a block of wood and use a thick metal rod and 3 lb sledge to knock the plug down.* That should do it. Sharp force trumps dull force through a wood dowel every time. Once the plug is knocked free inside the fork steerer tube, the sleeve should be loose to extract. I believe at this point I will need a new expander assembly from Specialized so before I embark on the above, I will order one.
> Any further suggestions are appreciated.
> Cheers.


I advise that you don't do that. The impact could very easily damage your fork blades and the expander plug issue will pale in comparison to needing a new fork. 

Alternately, once you get the top conical plug free (_carefully_ dremel or similar) and with the screw removed I suggest inserting that metal rod into the steerer tube and holding the fork with the other hand (_but not against any object_) hammer it until the lower plug is freed.


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## roadworthy (Nov 11, 2011)

Thread deleted.


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## roadworthy (Nov 11, 2011)

Thread deleted.


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## PJ352 (Dec 5, 2007)

roadworthy said:


> Great advice. While I believe a carbon fork is ridiculously strong in compression to withstand potholes etc with full rider weight, why tempt fate? My approach violates a basic adage of repair...always try the least invasive i.e. least extreme approach first.
> 
> So basically employing your strategy with one additional provision, I will clamp the steel ram rod vertically in a vice, invert the fork and then use the fork as a slide hammer to impart force onto the plug through the steerer. This is basically an adaptation of how to install a non integrated crown race onto a fork steerer tube. This way no force goes into the fork and all impact force goes right into the plug to knock it out.
> A great suggestion...and thanks for your help PJ!


I think yours is a fine alternative. As far as CF forks being strong enough to withstand potholes and rider weight, I concur. But I'd hazard to guess that the impact from hammering against a stuck plug while the fork dropouts are against a (fairly hard) object doesn't quite simulate road riding. 

Good luck. Let us know how it goes.....


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## roadworthy (Nov 11, 2011)

Thread deleted.


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## Chris-X (Aug 4, 2011)

I'm an imbecile, but.....I think the slotted sleeve is stuck in my steer tube also. 

Question. Wouldn't the LBS/Specialized dealer have run into this issue before, and how do they resolve it. 

I'm glazing over trying to understand these posts. 

I'm not trying to bust balls but am interested in what is probably a simple solution which I don't see.


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## roadworthy (Nov 11, 2011)

Thread deleted.


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## Chris-X (Aug 4, 2011)

roadworthy said:


> There isn't much to know here. I compounded my mistake by trying to screw down the top piece after shortening my steerer. I did this because I wanted to ride my bike and knew it would be OK which it is. I don't have the luxury of spare parts like a Specialized dealer or I would have gotten more intense with the bottom tapered plug. Installing the top piece after shortening the steerer is a bad move if the sleeve and bottom piece aren't free to push down.. If the top piece will not drop down flush to the top of the steerer after shortening the steerer tube, DON'T install it.
> 
> *What does a bike shop do? * They adhere to bikejulio's initial advice. They knock the bottom piece down with a punch and hammer to free it which in turn frees the alloy sleeve.


If the LBS does it, wouldn't they be responsible for any screwups?

The mechanic might act as if it's no problem. Then when he forces it and breaks something it's on him? If it costs 30 or 40 bucks to put it on them it might be worth it?


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## roadworthy (Nov 11, 2011)

Thread deleted.


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## bikerjulio (Jan 19, 2010)

To veer only slightly off topic - I must say that I don't like the design of the plug at all. It does not take much torque on the bolt to exert a very substantial force on the steerer tube caused by the tapered plugs at either end. A recipe for disaster with carbon I would have thought.

Reminds me of a quill stem design I had in a bike once, and had a very hard time removing - It had been overtightened and the expansion caused by the tapered plug was sufficient to distort the steel steerer.


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## PJ352 (Dec 5, 2007)

roadworthy said:


> Yes, it maybe worth it for some owners...but not for me. Only time I ever walk into a bike shop is to say hello or in my last case to show the shop the bike I built up with Campy after ordering the frameset from them over Christmas. They asked me to bring it in. In fact, they likely never even re-cable a hidden cable bike. They are very nice people but I by far trust my own talent to work on bikes versus ANY shop. My shop never even sees a Campy bike nor get any Specialized Pro or S-works in stock. Everybody comes from a different background so this doesn't apply to many that ride bikes of course. I generally fix all the screw ups from local shops for my riding buddies.
> Cheers.


I completely agree with this. I'm not a perfect wrench by any means, but I have far more confidence in myself (even when digging myself out of a hole I created) than I would having an LBS work on the fork RW describes. 

Re: the expanders design, I don't see it as having inherent flaws. Being far from high tech, it (and similar setups) can 'freeze' inside steerer tubes as we're seeing here. Once the plugs are freed, the expander should free as well.


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## roadworthy (Nov 11, 2011)

Thread deleted.


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## Steffo (Jul 30, 2012)

Roadworthy, I also like the Specialized compressor due to the long sleeve giving good support. However it does seem to stick quite a bit. 

Here's what I did:

1. Remove the fork
2. Back off the compression screw a couple of turns. Don't worry because threads are still fully engaged in bottom part, see pic.
3. Insert full thread of top cap steel screw. Prevents the compression screw from being damaged. 
4. Hold sterer tube in your hand and hit screw head with hammer untill bottom part release from sleeve. If it doesn't break loose, hit harder! I think this is the only thing you can do short of drilling, cutting etc. which will ruin the compressor.
5. Sleeve should collapse enough to release top part with little force.


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## roadworthy (Nov 11, 2011)

Thread deleted.


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## bikerjulio (Jan 19, 2010)

Of course the Julio method of using a bearing puller will exert force on both the top and bottom plugs at the same time, and who's to say which one will release first? If it's the top one you are good to go - if not.......................you will still be left with a problem. Perhaps a dowel or steel rod. It raises the question as to how you are supposed to remove this thing after a normal installation. Still don't like the design.


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## Steffo (Jul 30, 2012)

You are absolutely correct. If the lower part in fact pops out first the top will still be stuck. When removing one of the cones the sleeve is allowed to shrink and actually release some of the pressure at the other end, so it might come out easier.

Should the top still be stuck use the two holes and make a tool with two pins to insert and twist the sucker. Maybe a piece of flat iron, drilled and tapped for some screws that fit into the holes. I'm sure it will come loose when you twist it. This way it won't be ruined.


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## PJ352 (Dec 5, 2007)

bikerjulio said:


> Of course the Julio method of using a bearing puller will exert force on both the top and bottom plugs at the same time, and who's to say which one will release first? If it's the top one you are good to go - if not.......................you will still be left with a problem. Perhaps a dowel or steel rod. * It raises the question as to how you are supposed to remove this thing after a normal installation.* Still don't like the design.


Simple. Since the top plug is 'free' (as in, not threaded) as you back out the center bolt, then tap it down it drops the lower plug, releasing compression on the expander. Really no different than most any compression plug.

I think at this point I'd not fret over ruining all or part of the expander assembly and use needle nose pliers/ a dremel (or similar) to free that top plug. It won't completely solve the issue, but will lessen the compression on the expander and provide better access to the lower plug.


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## roadworthy (Nov 11, 2011)

Thread deleted.


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## ptt127 (Apr 12, 2010)

I know you already dismissed this idea, but here is what I'd do. I'd take the whole bike down to the LBS mechanic that you don't trust, who has all the spare parts that you don't have, tell him exactly what happened and what you tried, and take a leap of faith on your fellow man. Or if this mechanic has done you wrong in the past, ask around about other shops. 

The worst thing that could happen is they damage the fork. So could you, or maybe you already have. Maybe the bottom cap is no longer straight so you have been hammering it into the side of the steerer instead of straight down. The best thing that could happen is they throw your bike on a stand, take out an Allen wrench and a mallet, give it three swift whacks, take the plug out, and refuse to take any money from you but instead point to the tip jar on the counter. This has happened to me many times at more than one shop. 

I'm a DIY guy myself but sometimes, especially since I'm not used to working with carbon, I have to swallow my pride and admit that I need some help. My thought is if I really knew so much better than the mechanic, I wouldn't be at this stage to begin with.


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## neverfree (Sep 17, 2010)

So much fail in this thread.. Roadworthy is clearly over thinking things and using his thesaurus to describe the problem.

Just like in the first response you need to thread in your bolt and dislodge the bottom plug/nut. I've worked on many including my own S-Works with this design and it just requires you to stop hitting it like a sissy.

I can't understand how this thread has managed to go on for 3 days with this slight problem and an owner who is incapable of solving it but too stubborn to seek the help of his LBS.


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## Chris-X (Aug 4, 2011)

ptt127 said:


> I know you already dismissed this idea, but here is what I'd do. I'd take the whole bike down to the LBS mechanic that you don't trust, who has all the spare parts that you don't have, tell him exactly what happened and what you tried, and take a leap of faith on your fellow man. Or if this mechanic has done you wrong in the past, ask around about other shops.
> 
> The worst thing that could happen is they damage the fork. So could you, or maybe you already have. Maybe the bottom cap is no longer straight so you have been hammering it into the side of the steerer instead of straight down. The best thing that could happen is they throw your bike on a stand, take out an Allen wrench and a mallet, give it three swift whacks, take the plug out, and refuse to take any money from you but instead point to the tip jar on the counter. This has happened to me many times at more than one shop.
> 
> I'm a DIY guy myself but sometimes, especially since I'm used to working with carbon, I have to swallow my pride and admit that I need some help. My thought is if I really knew so much better than the mechanic, I wouldn't be at this stage to begin with.


Yes, completely agree. It is one thing to have attention to detail and be intelligent. It is quite a different thing to have experience. No amount of intelligence replaces having successfully completed a task more than a couple of times which the less intelligent LBS mechanic :mad2::idea: probably has.



neverfree said:


> So much fail in this thread.. Roadworthy is clearly over thinking things and using his thesaurus to describe the problem.
> 
> Just like in the first response you need to thread in your bolt and dislodge the bottom plug/nut. I've worked on many including my own S-Works with this design and it just requires you to stop hitting it like a sissy.
> 
> I can't understand how this thread has managed to go on for 3 days with this slight problem and an owner who is incapable of solving it but too stubborn to seek the help of his LBS.


Because there is always someone who will think their superior intelligence always trumps the hard won experience of the less polished hoi polloi.

Jeez, sometimes the answer is right in front of your face. One gets a different set of eyes, the opinion of experience and there is no problem. It's not an issue of a person's worth. It's just that the expert knows exactly wtf they're doing because they've done it successfully before after maybe screwing up a time or two. That's called learning. Maybe they got lucky the first time. But that's what it is, luck.

This is why trade unions had apprenticeships. You learned from experienced people by seeing and doing. Now we get shoddy work by know-it-alls.


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## roadworthy (Nov 11, 2011)

Thread deleted.


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## neverfree (Sep 17, 2010)

There's the arrogance that won my heart. I'm curious what you do that you can look down at so many people with such disdain. As Chris-X pointed out your local mechanics may not be members of Mensa but they most certainly have experience in their field, something you greatly lack. Your arrogance has so far been your down fall.

I find it interesting that the campy bearing puller is going to be your "solution". You are going to pull up on an item that is designed to withstand those same forces... Atleast you will wait until winter because why get it fixed now? What an absurd end to your "problem"


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## roadworthy (Nov 11, 2011)

Thread deleted.


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## bikerjulio (Jan 19, 2010)

Well - that was fun while it lasted  

Now for something completely different


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## PJ352 (Dec 5, 2007)

I dunno, if I gave up every time the going got rough I'd not have learned the things I have. Mistakes teach, and rising to challenges gives us confidence that we can do more. But that's just me. 

OP: IMO you should return to (and update) this thread when you've resolved the expansion plug issue. Just as your ICR and BB30 contributions have assisted others in the recent past, this may well assist others with similar issues/ concerns. And that's what a forum is all about, ATMO.


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## roadworthy (Nov 11, 2011)

Thread deleted.


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## Rick Draper (Jan 17, 2012)

Do not use a bearing puller on it. You risk damaging the steer as when you pulling the lower expander will be dragged into the knurled part and you risk ruining the tube.

Just smack it and stop tapping it. I did the same thing on my SL4 the other week and a good hard smack in the centre bolt had it come straight out.


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## Chris-X (Aug 4, 2011)

*Mensa?*



roadworthy said:


> Well, I said I wasn't coming back but just this one time.  I was humble to post a request for advice. I *humbley* received that advice and validation from like minded guys who actually have something to contribute.
> As to arrogance, that's easy. * It is easy for me to be arrogant compared to guy's like you, Chris* and the other unmentionable. But I am not here to get in the mud with you as that is what you want. If you knew my background it would only incite more hatred. Quite right, most Mensan's are the last guys to ask for bike advice. But most guys that wrench...not all...at local bike shops are complete hacks.


Give me a break! Not that I usually point out spelling errors (because they don't mean much) but in this case yours is terrible. Give it a rest with the genius stuff. You're an arrogant :ciappa:

As far as I know, you're an engineer??? Not a theoretical physicist by any stretch? Even revered geniuses like Feynman know their limitations. Everyone has them, even the proud such as yourself. Feynman knew he was no shop man. They had a facility he lacked and he knew it. It's probably safe to say you're no Feynman. Feynman would not have qualified for Mensa btw... No shame in that, but you come in here and you disparage bike shop men and women. The fact is they see a lot more stuff than you do and practice a lot more than you do. 

You've lost sight of what's important, riding the bike. Every industry farms out work to experts from time to time. Some people just know specialties better. You've conclusively demonstrated you have no idea wtf you're doing with this steer tube insert. Who cares? You take the fork down to the LBS, and the guy who knows wtf he's doing will sure handedly bang the effing thing out because he has experience you lack. What does a replacement fork cost?

Keep effing around with it and learn a $400 lesson.:thumbsup:


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## Chris-X (Aug 4, 2011)

PJ352 said:


> *I dunno, if I gave up every time the going got rough I'd not have learned the things I have. Mistakes teach,* and rising to challenges gives us confidence that we can do more. But that's just me.
> 
> OP: IMO you should return to (and update) this thread when you've resolved the expansion plug issue. Just as your ICR and BB30 contributions have assisted others in the recent past, this may well assist others with similar issues/ concerns. And that's what a forum is all about, ATMO.


If the primary goal were to learn bike mechanics I'd agree with you. The O/P wants to ride if I understand correctly.

Friends of mine are in facilities maintenance and electric for more than 30 years. My friend needed a new electrical service installed in his house. Could he have done it himself? Yes. But he hired other friends of his who do these things all the time.

I see butcher jobs by LBS guys all the time, but that doesn't mean they don't know what they're doing. They may be doing 12 hours of work in 8 hours. They may not have attention to detail for this or other reasons but if you give them a discrete task such as the one the OP presented, they could probably pull a solution out of their bag of tricks which the OP has not developed.

A friend of mine had a Ksyrium SL rebuilt by the LBS and it came back with completely unequal spoke tension and was so bad a 5th grader could've done better, it was disgraceful. I've built and trued wheels on bikes with nothing but a spoke wrench and screwdriver and those wheels have proven to be quite durable. Does this mean I have more knowledge than the guy working on bikes full time or even 20 hours a week?

This thread is just idiotic....:idea:


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## roadworthy (Nov 11, 2011)

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## roadworthy (Nov 11, 2011)

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## Chris-X (Aug 4, 2011)

roadworthy said:


> Only because of you and your simpleton groupies.
> I could waste my time and dissect all your silly assertions, and it would be just that...a waste of time. *I had a golf teacher when I was real young teach me a valuable lesson.. We became good friends. He told me, you can't reach everybody*. You learn this lesson early on. *Some guys...you...are too dumb to learn anything...lol*


Now I have groupies? 

I think the absurdity of this thread is clear to all of your critics.

I didn't know there was only one way to hit a golf ball and your instructor has found it!

I think it's the Furyk method! Hogan, Bubba Watson, and John Daly taught themselves. The best ever, Tiger??? has had a number of prominent teachers with differing philosophies.

As for the last bolded, it's clear you're very insecure and your confidence is easily shaken. Good luck with that!


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## Rick Draper (Jan 17, 2012)

......


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## GTR2ebike (Jun 30, 2011)

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