# Welch Creek appreciation thread



## ukbloke (Sep 1, 2007)

I did the Low Key Hill Climb on Welch Creek today. It was my first time up that hill and I was mightily impressed. For my money this is the best tough hill climb that I've done:

Steep, really steep, makes you want to bring a triple steep
The steepness goes almost all the way to the very top
Fantastic road surface - better than any other hill climb in the area. The only minor difficulty is negotiation of 3 cattle grids
It is the right length - 3.9 miles and 2000 feet of that is plenty
Unbelievably narrow road - one car wide (literally) in many places
Hardly any traffic
Very scenic - mostly tree covered, big drop-offs down to a ravine, opens up nicely at the top
A very nice setting off Calaveras Road near Sunol, far away from the South Bay sprawl
It is a fun descent (but watch out for on-coming traffic), as well as a tough climb

I used to think that Bohlman/On-Orbit was the grand-daddy of tough climbs, but now I'm a Welch Creek man. The bad pavement and shallowness to the top degrade the Bohlman experience by comparison.


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## ukbloke (Sep 1, 2007)

Here's an elevation/grade chart previously posted by ratpick.


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## ukbloke (Sep 1, 2007)

Here's a previous ride report by francois et al for Sierra and Welch Creek.

I just posted a video on YouTube of the descent of Welch Creek:


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## Tort (Nov 4, 2008)

I have ridden by that road so many times and was clueless what it was. Since I got a clue, I have been unsure of whether I could meet the challenge. One day I will have to just give it a try and see what I am made of.


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## alex3780 (Nov 7, 2009)

@ukbloke - awesome video, but even better descending. 3.9 miles in under 9 minutes...that's around 26mph. you made it look way too smooth and easy.


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## ukbloke (Sep 1, 2007)

alex3780 said:


> @ukbloke - awesome video, but even better descending. 3.9 miles in under 9 minutes...that's around 26mph. you made it look way too smooth and easy.


Thanks, that's too kind! :blush2: It would be possible to go faster if there were better sight lines around the corners. On the steep sections the "gravity-powered" acceleration is just phenomenal.

So I did the climb in 28:27, which was about 1.5 minutes faster than my target. I averaged 306W which is a really good number for me for that duration. Usually I can only get above a 300W average on OLH. I'll try to post the climb video tomorrow. All the other riders make it pretty interesting to watch even with the slow pace.


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## ratpick (Jul 31, 2008)

I really like the Welch Creek climb for all the reasons you gave! Would love to have come out today except Henry Coe was calling! Awesome climb. I saw you pass the guy with the rear-facing camera looking very strong!

Last time I climbed it (RBR ride), I looked longingly over the fence at the end and resolved to check out what was there. Turns out there are some good trails and an alternative route back down, albeit dirt.

Problem is that it is technically wilderness so bikes aren't permitted. Boo. One day my curiosity will undoubtedly get the better of me 

PS: how about Gary Gellin <B>running</B> Welch Creek in 30 mins.. dude is an animal!


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## ukbloke (Sep 1, 2007)

Here's the low key hill climb of Welch Creek in 3 parts. Part 1 is pretty interesting because I'm in a big pack of low-key riders. I had an entertaining "Schleck-style" bad front shifting experience starting at 3:30 in the 3rd video.


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## sometimerider (Sep 21, 2007)

ukbloke said:


> Here's an elevation/grade chart previously posted by ratpick.


That does look really tough (I've started it a couple times, but never came close to doing the whole climb. Doing a climb like that requires that it be the primary focus of my ride that day).

Let's compare it to another well known local climb - Alba Road, near Ben Lomond in the Santa Cruz Mtns:

View attachment 216024


(This is from the ACTC Profile Viewer.)

It appears that Alba has a higher average gradient (more elevation gain over a shorter distance). But Welch certainly has much longer super steep sections.


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## pmarshall (Jul 18, 2010)

Uk- was watching your video and great job climbing that monster!! I was paying particular attention to your telemetry box on your video and saw that it indicates your gearing. Were you using a 34/27 ratio? I am intrigues to go and find this road and see just how punishing it is. I can tell by watching the riders around that it is indeed steep!


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## sometimerider (Sep 21, 2007)

pmarshall said:


> Were you using a 34/27 ratio?


It looks like that was his lowest gear. And even if I had UK's power (which I surely don't), it wouldn't nearly have been low enough for me. His cadence was often under 50.


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## ukbloke (Sep 1, 2007)

pmarshall said:


> Uk- was watching your video and great job climbing that monster!! I was paying particular attention to your telemetry box on your video and saw that it indicates your gearing. Were you using a 34/27 ratio? I am intrigues to go and find this road and see just how punishing it is. I can tell by watching the riders around that it is indeed steep!


Yup, 50/34 compact by a 12-27 cassette. I would have used lower gears if I had them, but I doubt that would have made me any faster. Usually I run a 12-25 cassette and I recently climbed Bohlman in that combination but I gave myself an extra gear for Welch Creek. If I ran the 12-25 I think I would have been slower. It is an interesting compromise. A long time back I ran a triple (on my first modern era road bike). Now that I can climb these steeps with the compact, that triple is in the parts bin. That other bike is now a standard 53/39.

I saw a variety of gearing and cadences on that climb. I saw one guy on the first steep pedalling at a super fast cadence, looked like more than 100rpm, and probably using a mountain bike triple. I saw several guys with (inappropriate) big gears practically stalling on the middle steepest sections once they ran out of leg strength.

I made a huge mistake on the last steep when I "forgot" that I was in my big ring after a completely flat section. In the 3rd video at about 3:30 to 4:30 you can see my power go insanely high as I muscle it up, then the cadence drops insanely low as I run out of juice, and then a fellow climber shouts out "big ring!" and normalcy is restored. It took me a while to recover from that beyond threshold effort. The telemetry doesn't show me using a 50/27 because its heuristics rightly believe that no sane person would climb a 15-20% grade in that cross-chained combination!

Awesome climb, highly recommended and so is the low-key hill climb series in general. From a performance and personal satisfaction point of view, this was probably my best day on a bike ever. The next closest would be my previous low-key hill climb on Old La Honda where I tied my personal best.


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## alex3780 (Nov 7, 2009)

@uk - awesome videos. the descent video doesnt give the climb its deserved justice. its looks ruthless for the first few miles. i cant believe that one guy (ratpick?) climbed it after we all climbed sierra.

so your telemetry guesses the expected gear based on measured variables (power, speed, grade, and cadence?)


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## ukbloke (Sep 1, 2007)

alex3780 said:


> @uk - awesome videos. the descent video doesnt give the climb its deserved justice. its looks ruthless for the first few miles. i cant believe that one guy (ratpick?) climbed it after we all climbed sierra.
> 
> so your telemetry guesses the expected gear based on measured variables (power, speed, grade, and cadence?)


The problem with camera footage is that you tend to look at the road horizon so all grades look the same. The biggest insight you get into the difficulty is the other riders stalling and swerving over the road or cranking at an appallingly low cadence. Also on the descent there are a couple of whooshes where the bike accelerates very very quickly.

ratpick is the endurance king - you should see some of his exploits on a mountain bike in Henry Coe!

The gearing is indeed inferred (and there's a similar braking indicator too). There's quite a bit of math and some heuristics.


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## ratpick (Jul 31, 2008)

alex3780 said:


> @uk - awesome videos. the descent video doesnt give the climb its deserved justice. its looks ruthless for the first few miles. i cant believe that one guy (ratpick?) climbed it after we all climbed sierra.


To be fair, I took my time - 38 mins. Now I want to go back and do it in anger and see if I can break 30 mins (unlikely).

I can climb for a long time - I just wish I could climb much faster!


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