# Older High Dollar Bike vs New Entry Level



## athlonwirez (Jul 7, 2015)

Hello! I'm new to road biking, so let me know if you are feeling like







.

I have just purchased a 2008 Klein Aura X for a little over $600. It is in great shape (some minor frame scratches) and the components are shinmano 105 all around, aluminum frame with carbon fork and carbon stays, 27 gears. 

I'm curious about feedback. Would this bike be better than getting a 2016 Giant Defy 5? I know the 2015 uses Claris components, I assume the 2016 follows suit. My concern is component dating. *Would entry level components for 2016 be on par with the 105 components that are probably 8-years-old?* 

I'm second guessing my buy because I feel a little stretched out on the Klein. I think I just might need to get used to bending at a 45 degree angle, I'm not sure. I'm 5' 10" and it's suppose to be about a 53 cm frame, but a long top tube. Also, if something happens fails, I have no warranty support.

I may be over analyzing. I can not spend a lot on a bike, hence the comparison to a entry level bike. 

Thoughts? Am I crazy?


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## aureliajulia (May 25, 2009)

Do both bikes fit? The Klein is a beautiful bike, and a good deal...

2008 Klein Aura V - New and Used Bike Value

Shimano 105 from 2008 happens to be my last bike, and it was perfect, so as long as it's in good shape, I'd prefer the 105.

Also, Kleins are kind of special, everyone I know of who had or has one loved it. I think the resale value on this bike is pretty good, and likely to remain so. 

Trying to find a geometry chart, but no luck. From the pictures, I think the geometry is decently relaxed (like the Defy) but can't tell for certain. I know the Klein Quantum was quite aggressive. 

If the Klein fits, I'd get that one.

Another thing, the wheels on the Klein are nice and light, similar to the ones on my older Zurich Le Mond.


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## tlg (May 11, 2011)

A lot depends on the condition of the older bike. And I wouldn't consider your Klein 105 a high dollar bike. But if it's in good condition, it's probably on par with the 2016 Defy w/ Claris. 
FWIW, I have a Klein Aura V 105 w/ Tiagra shifters. I'd choose it over the Defy. My Klein still functions perfectly.

Are you sure yours is a 53cm? That sounds too small for you. I'm 5'9" and my Klein is a 55cm.


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## tlg (May 11, 2011)

aureliajulia said:


> Also, Kleins are kind of special, everyone I know of who had or has one loved it.


Definitely. I often get people asking me about mine. And mine doesn't have one of the better paint colors. It's charcoal gray.



> Trying to find a geometry chart, but no luck. From the pictures, I think the geometry is decently relaxed (like the Defy) but can't tell for certain. I know the Klein Quantum was quite aggressive.


Here's the 2008 Klein catalog. It has geometry charts
https://vintage-trek.com/Trek-Fisher-Klein-Lemond/2008klein.pdf





athlonwirez said:


> I have just purchased a 2008 Klein Aura X


Is it this one? If so, that's sweet. 
But it appears that it doesn't have internal cables. That's a bummer.


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## JCavilia (Sep 12, 2005)

Unless the Klein really doesn't fit you, I'd say ride the hell out of it. Component dating is really almost meaningless, at least in that range. If that bike and its components are in good shape and well maintained, it could function beautifully for a long, long time.


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## Richard L (Jun 16, 2014)

Here's a link to the Klein geometry charts.

Trek, Fisher, Klein, Lemond bike catalogs, bicycle brochures


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## athlonwirez (Jul 7, 2015)

Well, high dollar to me. No way I could afford the MSRP of it back in the day. Based off the "bluebook," it should be in the $906-$933 range; not sure if I could get that if I try to sell it?. 

I've got the Klein, but I'm thinking I will need a new seat, and stem (maybe handlebars, 26mm handlebars) based off of the long reach; however, I'm at the limit of my entry level budget. The stem is 100cm and turned +15 degrees. 

I'm wondering if component technology has advanced enough in nearly a decade that the Claris would about be equal to the 8-year-old 105 flight deck components. If I get a new bike I can get fit for free, have a warranty, and the tune-up support of the LBS. 

South Carolina has the worst roads in the country, I'm worried about stressing/cracking the carbon parts of the frame. A road I have to travel (1 mile), to get to the main road, is paved gravel. Like really gravel, 2-5cm rocks. I got worried about the HARSH vibration.


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## athlonwirez (Jul 7, 2015)

It's like this one...
https://www.thegrumpyhacker.com/images/IMGP1372-1-800.jpg


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## tlg (May 11, 2011)

athlonwirez said:


> South Carolina has the worst roads in the country, I'm worried about stressing/cracking the carbon parts of the frame. A road I have to travel (1 mile), to get to the main road, is paved gravel. Like really gravel, 2-5cm rocks. I got worried about the HARSH vibration.


Stop worrying. My Klein is my winter bike. Your S.C. roads are not worse than our PA roads. 
They make full carbon MTB's and cyclocross bikes. Gravel isn't a concern.


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## robt57 (Jul 23, 2011)

Q-Carbon is one of the best bikes I have thrown a leg over.

Caveats: rear facing rear dropouts PITA in a major fashion IMO, and very limited tire size room. I doubt seriously 25s on wide rims would fit. I think a 25s on a narrow rim was way too tight IMO. 

I sold the one I had, but smooth enough that 23s ok, especially if you are lighter than I, which is probably easy to accomplish.  In fact unreal how smooth that sucker was, a lot like the early Six13 I have currently as my beater. Both great choices of older high end that is cheap and pleases IMO.

To answer the OP:
I have a 2009 Scott LTD addict, a 90s Custom 753 Steel, and a 1972 Paramount. All way high end. I bought and sold a 2014 SL4 Roubaix I had for 7 months. I have really got turned off my the new stuff personally. 

I love tooling at speed on the 753 or Paramount. 

So older high end gets my nod. Or custom steel always gets my nod. I just ordered one to replace the Roubaix. It occurred to me my 15 year old custom steel [same builder] beat that ROubaix hands down and still get ridden, I lost interest in the Roubaix in 6 months FWIW.


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## tlg (May 11, 2011)

athlonwirez said:


> It's like this one...
> https://www.thegrumpyhacker.com/images/IMGP1372-1-800.jpg


That's a 2004, not a 2008. Same year as mine. It has internal cables. I should've caught that when you said it has 27sp. The 2008 was 10sp. 

https://www.vintage-trek.com/Trek-Fisher-Klein-Lemond/2004klein.pdf


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## athlonwirez (Jul 7, 2015)

Ahh. Okay. I'll have to double check when I get home, I think the frame is 61 cm. Seems like I measured about 53 cm on the seat tube. :/


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## tlg (May 11, 2011)

robt57 said:


> Caveats: rear facing rear dropouts PITA in a major fashion IMO, and very limited tire size room. I doubt seriously 25s on wide rims would fit. I think a 25s on a narrow rim was way too tight IMO.


 The dropouts aren't the easiest but not so bad. I've had bikes with regular dropouts that were more a PITA.
Tire size is limited. 25's will fit on mine though. 




athlonwirez said:


> I'm wondering if component technology has advanced enough in nearly a decade that the Claris would about be equal to the 8-year-old 105 flight deck components. If I get a new bike I can get fit for free, have a warranty, and the tune-up support of the LBS.


Yes the components might be about equal. But the components don't make the ride. The frames and wheels are not equal.


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## Lombard (May 8, 2014)

athlonwirez said:


> Hello! I'm new to road biking, so let me know if you are feeling like
> 
> 
> 
> ...


At $600, as long as the bike is in good condition and fits you, it's a pretty good deal. However, it sounds like the bike doesn't quite fit you. While your proportions may be different from mine, I'm also 5' 10" and ride a 56cm frame. What's ironic is that you say you feel "stretched out". I am inclined to think Klein used the seat tube measurement which would be around 51cm which is the same as a 56cm frame using the top tube measurement. Most road bikes are measured using the top tube measurement.

I've said it many times on these boards and it's still worth repeating that there isn't a more important thing than having a good fit. A good fit will give you much better enjoyment of the bike, not to mention you are less likely to have aches and joint issues down the road.

As far as componentry, 105 components have not changed in quality in 8 years. They were as good then as they are now. Claris is an entry level line which was recently introduced and stands between 2200/2300 and Sora, none of which are as good as 105.


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## Randy99CL (Mar 27, 2013)

Measure the frame. At 5'10" a 53 is likely too small and a 61 is probably way too big. But it depends on how Klein sized their frames.

How the bike fits you is more important than the age or the components.


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## aureliajulia (May 25, 2009)

athlonwirez said:


> Well, high dollar to me. No way I could afford the MSRP of it back in the day. Based off the "bluebook," it should be in the $906-$933 range; not sure if I could get that if I try to sell it?.
> 
> I've got the Klein, but I'm thinking I will need a new seat, and stem (maybe handlebars, 26mm handlebars) based off of the long reach; however, I'm at the limit of my entry level budget. The stem is 100cm and turned +15 degrees.
> 
> ...


What part of SC are you in? I'm near Hilton Head. Agree about the roads, but a carbon stem (not required right away) does a lot to alleviate the vibration. 

I think you would be better off with standard diameter clamp handlebars. 

Assuming it fits.


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## tlg (May 11, 2011)

Lombard said:


> What's ironic is that you say you feel "stretched out". I am inclined to think Klein used the seat tube measurement which would be around 51cm which is the same as a 56cm frame using the top tube measurement. Most road bikes are measured using the top tube measurement.


Good point. I agree, it's weird that he feels stretched. My guess is it's not a 53cm frame.

According to the Klein geometry chart (the best I can read it) frame sizes are...
53cm: has a 50cm seat tube and a 54.4cm top tube.
55cm: has a 50.8cm seat tube and a 56.5cm top tube.
57cm: has a *52.5cm *seat tube and a 58.5cm top tube.

If his seat tube actually measures 53cm he has a size 57cm frame. Which would explain the stretched out feeling.


athlonwirez, measure your seat tube. Is it 52.5cm (20.7")?


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## pmf (Feb 23, 2004)

An easy fix would be a shorter stem.


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## ColaJacket (Apr 13, 2015)

athlonwirez said:


> Ahh. Okay. I'll have to double check when I get home, I think the frame is 61 cm. Seems like I measured about 53 cm on the seat tube. :/


If you do decide that it doesn't fit you, have you considered a Fuji? There's a place on Harbison (South Lake Cycles) that is supposed to have Fuji's. I have a Sportif, and I've enjoyed it. 

The place on Harbison is supposed to be owned by a former Polish team coach, so I would think they can help you with your fit. 

I've also had work done on a bike by Outspokin near 5 Points, and they were good. And I hear that Cycle Center is reputable.

GH


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## athlonwirez (Jul 7, 2015)

I measured just over 52 cm from the center of the BB to the top of the seat tube. Looks like it's a 58 or 61 cm. Geez. :/ What's a decent selling price if this bike is in excellent condition?


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## athlonwirez (Jul 7, 2015)

ColaJacket said:


> If you do decide that it doesn't fit you, have you considered a Fuji? There's a place on Harbison (South Lake Cycles) that is supposed to have Fuji's. I have a Sportif, and I've enjoyed it.





ColaJacket said:


> The place on Harbison is supposed to be owned by a former Polish team coach, so I would think they can help you with your fit.
> 
> I've also had work done on a bike by Outspokin near 5 Points, and they were good. And I hear that Cycle Center is reputable.
> 
> GH




I've talked to a gentleman at summit cycles and his entry level is a 2016 Giant Defy 5, at $640. I haven't looked at entry level prices for other brands yet. I guess I will have to try and sell this bike.


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## tlg (May 11, 2011)

athlonwirez said:


> I measured just over 52 cm from the center of the BB to the top of the seat tube. Looks like it's a 58 or 61 cm. Geez. :/ What's a decent selling price if this bike is in excellent condition?


Then it's a 57. Try a shorter stem. You might be able to adjust the fit to better suit you.


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## aureliajulia (May 25, 2009)

Congrats, it fits you. Don't sell it!!

The size 58 on the chart I just looked at has a seat tube of 52.5 and an effective top tube of 58.5. It's recommended for people 5'9" to 6'2". Quite a range, but it sounds doable. 

Wish it gave head tube height. but it looks like it has a fairly tall head tube, that will decrease reach. Please don't be too hasty. It's a great bike.


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## Jay Strongbow (May 8, 2010)

Buying a bike isn't like buying a stock for investment. value comes from liking to ride it, or not. the only way to really answer your question is to ride both of them and decide for yourself but seeing as though you already own one of them if you like it that's a good choice and if you don't it isn't.


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## tlg (May 11, 2011)

aureliajulia said:


> Congrats, it fits you. Don't sell it!!
> 
> The size 58 on the chart I just looked at has a seat tube of 52.5 and an effective top tube of 58.5. It's recommended for people 5'9" to 6'2". Quite a range, but it sounds doable.
> 
> Wish it gave head tube height. but it looks like it has a fairly tall head tube, that will decrease reach. Please don't be too hasty. It's a great bike.


They Aura doesn't come in a 58. They're odd numbers. It's a 57. But yea the TT is 58.5. 
I agree he could probably make it work. And it's a much better (and cooler) bike than the entry level Defy.


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## athlonwirez (Jul 7, 2015)

perhaps 100mm stem to an 80mm.


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## aureliajulia (May 25, 2009)

tlg said:


> They Aura doesn't come in a 58. They're odd numbers. It's a 57. But yea the TT is 58.5.
> I agree he could probably make it work. And it's a much better (and cooler) bike than the entry level Defy.


Wondered about that when you said 57, must have looked at the wrong line. Shrug. Small numbers.


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## aureliajulia (May 25, 2009)

athlonwirez said:


> perhaps 100mm stem to an 80mm.


Usually works better to just go 1 cm at a time. You'll end up spending a lot on stems like this, is there anywhere you could get an inexpensive fitting just to get started?

Ritchy makes an adjustable stem where you can change the angle. Really helps to bring the bars closer to you, and from there it's a little easier to figure out what actual size you need.

Do the bars need a 25.4 mm (one inch) clamp? It's easier to find spare stems from friends in the standard, oversized diameter.


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## athlonwirez (Jul 7, 2015)

aureliajulia said:


> is there anywhere you could get an inexpensive fitting just to get started?
> 
> Do the bars need a 25.4 mm (one inch) clamp? It's easier to find spare stems from friends in the standard, oversized diameter.


The shops around here want $50 for a basic fit. 

The handle bars are 26 mm.


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## PJ352 (Dec 5, 2007)

athlonwirez said:


> The shops around here want $50 for a basic fit.


You may disagree with me, but it's worth it when you consider what you may lose by selling, then buying another bike.

Also, assuming you go to a reputable LBS, you'll get some peace of mind knowing your bike fits (or not).

I'm not going to guess on fit over the internet, but will say that running a short stem on a 57CM frame isn't ideal. Stem lengths (like frame sizes) grow proportionally for reasons - one being to maintain correct f/r weight distribution.


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## wim (Feb 28, 2005)

PJ352 said:


> ...running a short stem on a 57CM frame isn't ideal.


Also consider that for a newcomer to the sport, "feeling a little stretched out" is perfectly normal. Ride a few weeks and see how you feel, especially at speed. 

Can't be certain if this applies to you, but often, shortening a stem is the wrong thing to do if you feel "too stretched out." For complex reasons I don't want to get into here, a shorter stem often makes things even worse. It may make you feel better just sitting on the bike. But 15 miles down the road, it's another story altogether.


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## tlg (May 11, 2011)

wim said:


> Ride a few weeks and see how you feel, especially at speed.


Yup. He already owns the bike. It's not going to depreciate any over a few weeks.
After a few weeks go test ride some entry level bikes and see if there's a noticeable difference.


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## aureliajulia (May 25, 2009)

I had a Miyata I bought used maybe 10 years ago. I was convinced it was too big due to the reasons wim stated. I sold it. Luckily I didn't pay much for it to begin with (20.00 yard sale) and got a good return after fixing it up, because it actually would have fit had it been set up properly. 

PJ352 is correct, though. It needs to fit without going to too small a stem (so I'm going against my last post; in my defense, the Klein is a killer bike!). But I believe there is a good chance it will actually work for you.


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## athlonwirez (Jul 7, 2015)

Thanks for all the feedback thus far! 

I understand I'm new, and not use to this style of riding. What causes the discomfort is stretching my arms(trap discomfort). I have broad shoulders, and have to extend my shoulders in front of my chest. No bend in the elbow. It's not a stretch if I bend my upper body past 45 degrees. Then my back begins to hurt. These symptoms are within a few miles.

I will see about a shorter stem. I know you want to try to have front weight over the contact patch of the tire. Also, a short stem will cause a bike to be more twitchy.


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## PJ352 (Dec 5, 2007)

athlonwirez said:


> Thanks for all the feedback thus far!
> 
> I understand I'm new, and not use to this style of riding. What causes the discomfort is stretching my arms(trap discomfort). I have broad shoulders, and have to extend my shoulders in front of my chest. No bend in the elbow. It's not a stretch if I bend my upper body past 45 degrees. Then my back begins to hurt. These symptoms are within a few miles.
> 
> I will see about a shorter stem. I know you want to try to have front weight over the contact patch of the tire. Also, a short stem will cause a bike to be more twitchy.


Generally speaking, bikes handle best when 55% to 60% of rider weight is on the rear wheel and 40% to 45% is on the front wheel. As you shorten stems, rider weight moves back, lightening the front end, thus the 'twitchy' feel under some conditions. On larger frames, this can be exacerbated, depending.

If you're currently running a 100 or 110mm stem and feel stretched out, I reiterate your best course of action (IMO) is to find a reputable fitter and (first) see if sizing is off. If it is, you can still be fit, but it most likely won't be optimal, so a decision has to be made. 

If OTOH sizing is correct, the fitter will be able to address your concerns re: being stretched out. It may be due to acclimation (to road riding), form, anatomy and/ or fit.


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## Lombard (May 8, 2014)

aureliajulia said:


> Congrats, it fits you. Don't sell it!!
> 
> The size 58 on the chart I just looked at has a seat tube of 52.5 and an effective top tube of 58.5. It's recommended for people 5'9" to 6'2". Quite a range, but it sounds doable.
> 
> Wish it gave head tube height. but it looks like it has a fairly tall head tube, that will decrease reach. Please don't be too hasty. It's a great bike.


Hmmm. When I was new to road biking, I bought a size 58 bike. At the time, I had no idea what I was doing and it felt OK on the test ride. It was definitely too big for me and I'm 5' 10".

I agree with PJ352. I would not hesitate to spend up to $100 and get a good thorough fitting from a good reputable bike shop. A good fitter could very well make this bike work for you. Without seeing you on the bike, I won't make a guess. Someone needs to work with you in person.

If a good fitter cannot make it work for you, you have a couple of options. You can sell it on eBay. Or, you could canabalize it - that is take some of the good quality components (wheels & drivetrain) off it and swap out the entry level components on a new bike.


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## Shuffleman (Sep 4, 2013)

JCavilia said:


> Unless the Klein really doesn't fit you, I'd say ride the hell out of it. Component dating is really almost meaningless, at least in that range. If that bike and its components are in good shape and well maintained, it could function beautifully for a long, long time.


I totally agree. Kleins are/were beautiful bikes. I would go to a lbs and pay them for a fit. It would be well worth it. That bike is a keeper.


tlg said:


> A lot depends on the condition of the older bike. And I wouldn't consider your Klein 105 a high dollar bike. But if it's in good condition, it's probably on par with the 2016 Defy w/ Claris.
> FWIW, I have a Klein Aura V 105 w/ Tiagra shifters. I'd choose it over the Defy. My Klein still functions perfectly.
> 
> Are you sure yours is a 53cm? That sounds too small for you. I'm 5'9" and my Klein is a 55cm.


I have to agree with the 53cm. Again, take it to a lbs and pay for a fitting. They should be able to tell you the actual size and if it will fit just by looking at it and you. This will also put your buyers remorse at ease or give you what you the information that you need to sell it.


tlg said:


> Then it's a 57. Try a shorter stem. You might be able to adjust the fit to better suit you.


If this is true, than a stem change would help. I really think that you should take it to a lbs for a look and possible fit. I have no problem with Claris and the Giant Defy is a good bike. I think that your Klein is a better bike and much more of a special ride IF it fits.


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## radripperaj (Mar 7, 2015)

athlonwirez said:


> Thanks for all the feedback thus far!
> 
> I understand I'm new, and not use to this style of riding. What causes the discomfort is stretching my arms(trap discomfort). I have broad shoulders, and have to extend my shoulders in front of my chest. No bend in the elbow. It's not a stretch if I bend my upper body past 45 degrees. Then my back begins to hurt. These symptoms are within a few miles.
> 
> I will see about a shorter stem. I know you want to try to have front weight over the contact patch of the tire. Also, a short stem will cause a bike to be more twitchy.


I read in one of your earlier posts you went to summit cycles. do you ever do their group ride on Wednesdays? if so I go to those and i or any of the other guys there would be willing to tell you if your bike is way to big or just needs some tweaking. Heck if you let me know ill bring a yoyo and i can get your seat position in the ball park with a couple of allen wrenches and let you know if your stem really is too long. the ride has several different groups so no matter if your new or not, there is a group for you.


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## Lombard (May 8, 2014)

radripperaj said:


> I read in one of your earlier posts you went to summit cycles. do you ever do their group ride on Wednesdays? if so I go to those and i or any of the other guys there would be willing to tell you if your bike is way to big or just needs some tweaking. Heck if you let me know ill bring a yoyo and i can get your seat position in the ball park with a couple of allen wrenches and let you know if your stem really is too long. the ride has several different groups so no matter if your new or not, there is a group for you.


NEVER, EVER, EVER move the saddle position forward to compensate for an over long reach. The saddle position should only be adjusted based on your position in relation to the pedals. Too far forward places undue stress on your knee joints.

Just as you will get many opinions here, you will also get many opinions on group rides.

Pay for and get a professional fit.


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## Chucky (Dec 17, 2013)

I live in Columbia SC and ride quite a bit around here; Orangeburg, Hilton Head and Charleston; roads are not great but no need to be concerned about a carbon frame on rough roads they won't damage the frame; if you hit a huge pothole you'll damage your wheels not your frame if you don't crash.
Cycle Center on Harbison; great guys and the owner was a masseuse and mechanic for the pros back in the day. Good service.
Outspokin good but last work I had done there was sketchy Brian the owner is a good guy.
Cycle Center good mechanical service; but expensive; charged me $82 to ship my wheels one way to CO.
Ride Bikes in Charleston is my go to wrench these days; not fancy but great mechanics and its the closet authorized Scott dealer to Columbia
Old vs. New; I love my old 2001 Litespeed Arenburg (titanium) heavy and flexy by today's standards but a great ride. I also have a carbon Scott Foil and Solace; light stiff and fast; I ride these most often and prefer their efficiency over the Litespeed and they look awesome. Whatever you choose to ride the most important thing is that you like the way it looks and rides, buy a bike you love and it will be a long and beautiful relationship


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## radripperaj (Mar 7, 2015)

Lombard said:


> NEVER, EVER, EVER move the saddle position forward to compensate for an over long reach. The saddle position should only be adjusted based on your position in relation to the pedals. Too far forward places undue stress on your knee joints.
> 
> Just as you will get many opinions here, you will also get many opinions on group rides.
> 
> Pay for and get a professional fit.


No where did i say i would adjust his seat to compensate for his reach. I am assuming since he bought it used and is new to the sport he has not had it fitted at all. There are guides from professional fitters that tell you how to get the bike in the ball park using a yoyo. I figured i could at least help him with his seat position and then he can see how he feels from there. 

Also I have been fitted at a bike shop after buying a new bike from them. I was excited to see how they would do it. Imagine my surprise when they pulled out a plumb bob and did the same thing i would do with a yoyo. There are the computer ones that watch you ride and analyze every thing, but i doubt he is wanting to pay hundreds of dollars when he said budget is important for his bike.


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## athlonwirez (Jul 7, 2015)

Thank you for the offer. I wish I had the time to get over there for their group ride. I may try to get over there soon to at least see what a medium Giant frame feels like.


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## Lombard (May 8, 2014)

radripperaj said:


> No where did i say i would adjust his seat to compensate for his reach. I am assuming since he bought it used and is new to the sport he has not had it fitted at all. There are guides from professional fitters that tell you how to get the bike in the ball park using a yoyo. I figured i could at least help him with his seat position and then he can see how he feels from there.
> 
> Also I have been fitted at a bike shop after buying a new bike from them. I was excited to see how they would do it. Imagine my surprise when they pulled out a plumb bob and did the same thing i would do with a yoyo. There are the computer ones that watch you ride and analyze every thing, but i doubt he is wanting to pay hundreds of dollars when he said budget is important for his bike.


Sorry if I implied that you would do that. I was simply stating what NOT TO DO, not that you would. No offense intended.

I am also not convinced the expensive computer fit is really all that much better than the old-school methods. I have heard people rave about the Guru fit which runs around $500. Such precision may be important if you are a racer, but for the rest of us, probably not. Plum bob or yoyo works fine. However, a professional who fits people a lot will see other little things the rest of us won't.


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## radripperaj (Mar 7, 2015)

Lombard said:


> Sorry if I implied that you would do that. I was simply stating what NOT TO DO, not that you would. No offense intended.
> 
> I am also not convinced the expensive computer fit is really all that much better than the old-school methods. I have heard people rave about the Guru fit which runs around $500. Such precision may be important if you are a racer, but for the rest of us, probably not. Plum bob or yoyo works fine. However, a professional who fits people a lot will see other little things the rest of us won't.


I just went back and read my post and realized the first sentence came off pretty harsh. sorry about that. I was at work and just trying to write a response real quick. I didn't think you were trying to offend. just trying to offer some help to someone trying to get into the sport because we were all there once. I dont know if you have read phil gaimon's book "pro cycling on 10$ a day", but in it he talks about those machines and professional fitters. he was saying one of the teams he was on was sponsored by a fitting service, and part of the deal was he had to let them fit him. he said what he would end up doing is putting tape on all of his parts and as soon as they finished adjusting his bike he would put it all back once he left, because no matter how long he rode the way they suggested it never felt as comfortable or as powerful as the way he had adjusted it over time. I thought that was pretty interesting.


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## PJ352 (Dec 5, 2007)

radripperaj said:


> ... he said what he would end up doing is putting tape on all of his parts and as soon as they finished adjusting his bike he would put it all back once he left, because no matter how long he rode the way they suggested it never felt as comfortable or as powerful as the way he had adjusted it over time. I thought that was pretty interesting.


I've read similar from some 'experts' and people who haven't written books, but (IMHO) and based on the number of fit related threads on forums, it doesn't work all that well for the vast majority. 

Problem is, a lot of fit fixes are counter intuitive, so oftentimes the rider 'winging it', adjusting fit on rides, takes the opposite action and either exacerbates a problem or creates another. 

Re: fitters, like most professions, along with experience, the knowledge of how to use specific tools (and when) is what matters, not so much what tools are used. For most new cyclists, it's usually quicker and cheaper to get a standard fitting from a reputable shop.


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## aureliajulia (May 25, 2009)

Lombard said:


> Hmmm. When I was new to road biking, I bought a size 58 bike. At the time, I had no idea what I was doing and it felt OK on the test ride. It was definitely too big for me and I'm 5' 10".


I retracted that a bit later, it's just that comparing a Klein to a Defy 5 is a hard sell, I do know better. 

Still, it's possible it fits. Really is important to find out for certain before letting it go.


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