# Riding your road bike on gravel and dirt?



## terry b

Is this a good idea? Especially with CF frames?

I do this from time to time, but I always wonder. I hear the crap hitting my downtube and that can't be good, can it? When I lived in China I had two bikes, one steel and one ti and they were pretty much set up as cross bikes with bigger tires so no worries.

But every once in a while I want to go off road when I'm out riding around and I'm just not sure about whether it's good for my bike. Or good for me for that matter, 23 tires aren't exactly grabby in loose stuff and the last thing I want to do is ride an hour home with crusher finds embedded in my knee cap.

What prompted my question was this - the overflow parking for our good MUT is a big gravel/dirt/rutted lot and I always see people carrying their road bikes from the end of the pavement to their cars. I've never seen anyone riding in that lot. It's not very far, but no one rides it. And these guys look like they know what they're doing - nice bikes, the right clothing, etc.

I know that pros do this in races like Monte Paschi Eroica but it's not like they're paying for their bikes.

What do you think?


----------



## JustTooBig

you have too many pretty bikes anyhow, terry. Dinging one up a bit riding in the gravel ain't going to mean much, IMO.

... and yeah, I venture off pristine pavement now and again too.


----------



## tednugent

there are cyclocross bikes with carbon frames these days.... maybe add a cyclocross bike for the dirt/gravel paths (or singletrack)


----------



## saf-t

No problem, just grab yourself some of this- even comes in colors so your bike can stay fashionably color coordinated!!


----------



## kbwh

Just hit it. I use 25 mm tires and slightly lower pressures than I do with my customary 23s.


----------



## NJBiker72

Careful. Hitting gravel unexpectedly got me a nasty concussion after a crash.


----------



## tednugent

NJBiker72 said:


> Careful. Hitting gravel unexpectedly got me a nasty concussion after a crash.


gravel on the side of the street or rail-trail gravel?


----------



## ziscwg

I ride 25 mm tires all the time, so dirt/gravel, some embedded rocks are usually no issue.

As for your down tube,
Put a 2 X 18 inch piece of "frame tape" or clear automotive protective tape on there. It will protect the CF more than nothing.


----------



## sometimerider

Some folks won't ride with me because I often choose to take the rough path (at least I think that's the reason).


----------



## Oxtox

I seek only smooth asphalt...no interest in unpaved stuff.


----------



## kbwh

Mixed surface racing is fun:
http://forums.roadbikereview.com/general-cycling-discussion/pix-race-260360.html


----------



## NJBiker72

tednugent said:


> gravel on the side of the street or rail-trail gravel?


In a corner on the side of the street, after a steep downhill to be followed by a steep uphilll. 

Not a good result.


----------



## mpre53

terry b said:


> I've never seen anyone riding in that lot. It's not very far, but no one rides it. And these guys look like they know what they're doing - nice bikes, the right clothing, etc.


That right there is a dangerous assumption.


----------



## tednugent

NJBiker72 said:


> In a corner on the side of the street, after a steep downhill to be followed by a steep uphilll.
> 
> Not a good result.


that's an entirely different scenario than riding on a dirt/gravel path, like a rail-trail (ie.. the D&R canal trail).

6-mile run, that I see a lot of cyclocross bikes there... (though I'm on my 29er hardtail)


----------



## danl1

In the nice riding areas (that is, not built up) around here, you generally have a choice to make. Either head to the MUT, which like in the CVNP is a crushed limestone path; or take to the farm roads.

Crushed limestone, as long as it's not soupy, makes a good solid riding surface. Not wanting to take crit turns on it, but JRA is fine. The larger material is moved off / compacted, and the actual surface is 'solid' dust. Makes a mess of the drivetrain, but doesn't hurt the bike.

The paved surfaces are another story. They're most often chipseal. In the past, that was OK, because the 'chip' was fine enough (say, matchhead sized) that it rolled well and compacted into the tar easily. Was sketchy the first few weeks after they redid a lane, but no worries after that.

Since we're all being stimulated, however, they are grabbing whatever thing they can find for gravel to re-pitch roads, and it's obvious they're getting quite a markup on it. Nothing quite like turning down a road and coming into a mile-long patch of marble-sized loose rock an inch or so deep. If you can stay up, you are going to be shooting rocks everywhere. 

The one to look out for is the one that gets tarred to the front tire, then wedges under the fork crown. No, this does not result in happy memories.

I don't think we'd generally hit the down tube, etc. often enough or hard enough to structurally matter, though it might be an aesthetic concern. I'd think some sort of clear tape application - similar to giant chainstay protectors - would present a bright, enterprising person with international manufacturing contacts an interesting low-load business opportunity. 

re: the parking lot: A lot of people worry about flatting in gravel, though I've not personally found it to matter all that much. That might explain some of that behavior.


----------



## exracer

> Riding your road bike on gravel and dirt?


I never have. I'm sure it would cause any structural damage to do that occaisonally. I just can't bring myself to do it no matter what the frame material.


----------



## MB1

If you can't have fun on your bike there is no reason to own it.

It is a rare ride we don't hit some dirt, no matter what bike we are on we just keep going.

BTW as you know, we own several carbon bikes......


----------



## Creakyknees

Dirt is easy. TerryB is talking about gravel. I dunno if he has the same kind we have in Texas, but around here "gravel" means sharp-edged limestone chunks in the 2-3 inch size range. Kick one of those up and it'll put a nice gash in your shin, or gouge in your frame. 

It's also really good at causing pinch flats. Even in cx tires. 










Terry, for a short/slow roll across a parking lot, no prob. For cruising at speed... why risk it?


----------



## minutemaidman

Gravel, rocks, fire roads in the Nat'l Forest - they are all harder on the tires, and sometimes wheels than the frame, whether Carbon or otherwise. If you can handle it and your tires can handle it, your bike will be fine. If youre nervous, protect the frame. A lot of times when someone is carrying their bikes around here it is to avoid known goat-head areas, through and around gates to roads that are closed to vehicles in the winter. Good luck.


----------



## bismo37

You should sell one of the Strongs on CL and get a CX bike. Otherwise you'll get passed by MTBr's on the gravel. Sheesh.


----------



## RJP Diver

"Ride it like you stole it!"


----------



## Guest

MB1 said:


> If you can't have fun on your bike there is no reason to own it.
> 
> It is a rare ride we don't hit some dirt, no matter what bike we are on we just keep going.
> 
> BTW as you know, we own several carbon bikes......


Hard-packed dirt is fine. those are the routes I prefer the most -- things like fire roads usually have interesting rolling terrain and nice scenery, plus typically few to no cars to worry about. 

I'm presently running Gatorskins in 25s on my road bike as the roads in my area are littered with glass. Moreover, I'm a lightweight (125lb) and the roads in my area bumpy as hell, so I like to run pressure lower than recommended for most 23s--95/85psi front/rear. I notice a slight dip in my speed after switching to these tires from the greater rolling resistance and air drag, but am enjoying the rides a lot more, and my average speeds are still better than many prior rides where I would flat and had to replace tubes halfway through (happened to me 3 times in a week... ) 

Outright gravel roads I tend to avoid. That might change if I get a CX bike.


----------



## Milk-Bone

kbwh said:


> Just hit it. I use 25 mm tires and slightly lower pressures than I do with my customary 23s.


That unpaved road is a hell of a lot better than the paved roads we have around Baltimore!!!:mad2:


----------



## Milk-Bone

MB1 said:


> If you can't have fun on your bike there is no reason to own it.
> 
> It is a rare ride we don't hit some dirt, no matter what bike we are on we just keep going.
> 
> BTW as you know, we own several carbon bikes......


Have to agree! That looks like some tightly packed sand, which is fun to ride on.


----------



## Lotophage

If you have to worry, you shouldn't ride carbon.


----------



## ecub

I road my CF Trek Madone 6.7 through this on 23's, which are kevlar lined, so I had no issues, other than slowing down. You can see my tracks.


----------



## Salsa_Lover

Alu and Steel would be also dinged. Ride what you don't care of dinging or scratching.


----------



## BostonG

Salsa_Lover said:


> Alu and Steel would be also dinged. Ride what you don't care of dinging or scratching.


Agree.

I have steel and aluminum bikes that are relatively inexpensive so I don’t feel the need to coddle or worry about them as much. Kind of like if we are taking our kid to a place we know he’s going to be dirty or wet when getting back in the car, we take my junk mobile rather than my wife’s car. 

To answer your question directly though, I don’t know if it hurts the bike. But it will probably be more dinged up over time.


----------



## tednugent

Salsa_Lover said:


> Alu and Steel would be also dinged. Ride what you don't care of dinging or scratching.


and people go mountain biking on aluminum, steel & carbon fiber bikes.... though my aluminum mountain bike is a lot heavier (and robust) than my aluminum road bike.

But it's a big difference between say a rail-trail and a more technical trail you would go bombing up and down hills on.


----------



## TWB8s

Yes. Though I wouldn't call the gravel true gravel. Crushed limestone, fire roads and dirt trails are open for travel on my road bikes. The 'cross bike doesn't even blink at them.

Here's the photos from the 2nd to last Hell of the South my former team put on. 90% of the riders were on proper road bikes.


----------



## smoothie7

I tend to baby my road bike way to much. but at the same token, it gives me a reason to buy another bike.  
all my bikes are purpose driven


----------



## kbwh

Super roads for a road bike, TWB8s. Very similar quality to what we used for our little Strade Bianche-copy (see previous post of mine).


----------



## terry b

Creakyknees said:


> Dirt is easy. TerryB is talking about gravel. I dunno if he has the same kind we have in Texas, but around here "gravel" means sharp-edged limestone chunks in the 2-3 inch size range. Kick one of those up and it'll put a nice gash in your shin, or gouge in your frame.
> 
> Terry, for a short/slow roll across a parking lot, no prob. For cruising at speed... why risk it?


Stuff like this, which I chose to walk.


----------



## tednugent

TWB8s said:


> Yes. Though I wouldn't call the gravel true gravel. Crushed limestone, fire roads and dirt trails are open for travel on my road bikes. The 'cross bike doesn't even blink at them.
> 
> Here's the photos from the 2nd to last Hell of the South my former team put on. 90% of the riders were on proper road bikes.


Love the PBR in one hand. :thumbsup:

Is it mandatory for that ride?

I love this pic I stole from MTBR a while back:


----------



## OldZaskar

Dinged? Are you guys serious? Unless you're going 70mph, NOTHING coming off your tires is going to do more than get the frame dirty. I've got mtb frames with flawless down tubes. 

It really has less to with the bike/tires and more to do with the comfort/skill of the rider.


----------



## GRAVELBIKE

Bicycles are a lot more versatile than folks are willing to admit. Free your mind, and your bike will follow.


----------



## axlenut

MB1 said:


> If you can't have fun on your bike there is no reason to own it.
> 
> It is a rare ride we don't hit some dirt, no matter what bike we are on we just keep going.
> 
> BTW as you know, we own several carbon bikes......


Amen bro! I'm always looking for the road less traveled, don't really care what the surface is. My only preference is the rougher the road the bigger the tires I like to run. I find I can run much less air and the ride is much better. 

Later, Axlenut


----------



## Terex

I have a Canoncale SuperX cyclocross bike for road riding in the Taos, NM area. By "road", I mean an assortment of crappy, potholed pavement, gravel roads, berms covered in gravel and broken glass, debris from mini-rock slides on the road up to the ski valley, etc. I have 32 mm Continental City Ride tires mounted. They work great on everything except steep, uphill gravel roads that really require more tread.

While riding up to the ski valley today, one of the mini-rock slides happened as I was riding past. Lucky for me it happens so often that they've got Jersey barriers lining the uphill side of the road to stop them. If one of the house sized rocks ever breaks loose while I'm riding past, I'm sure my "ballistic carbon" C-dale frame will hold up fine...


----------



## Creakyknees

terry b said:


> Stuff like this, which I chose to walk.


come on, that's totally rideable.


----------



## Newnan3

I'd be more concerned with a mtn bike that has knobby tires that will catch the rocks and throw them against the downtube more than I would a roadie with smooth tires. 

For the record, I have 16 ft of helicopter tape protecting my carbon mtn bike frame from rocks and whatnot.


----------



## bojangles31

I took a corner from road to gravel with a few friends tonight, and i can tell you it was a super shocker for me. Needless to say i wiped out. 

Going too fast to gravel, or on gravel is just not a good life choice.


----------



## terry b

Creakyknees said:


> come on, that's totally rideable.


It was really cold that day and my knees were killing me. So I walked down and then took this picture of my Irish pal doing the same.


----------



## tednugent

Creakyknees said:


> come on, that's totally rideable.


It's probably safer to ride down than walking down with road shoes/cleats


----------



## nate

If you're riding it off road, then it's no longer a road bike.

Wow, your questions are easy, terry!


----------



## Pablo

nate said:


> If you're riding it off road, then it's no longer a road bike.


So my Gios magically ceases to be a "road bike" on an MUT?


----------



## Pablo

GRAVELBIKE said:


> Bicycles are a lot more versatile than folks are willing to admit. Free your mind, and your bike will follow.


The Dirty Bismark! I love that on my bike with 32s or even 28s.


----------



## Pablo

Creakyknees said:


> come on, that's totally rideable.


Going down, for sure, going up, you'd have some traction issues, like no traction.


----------



## nate

Pablo said:


> So my Gios magically ceases to be a "road bike" on an MUT?


Yup, just like a base layer magically ceases to be a base layer when it's over the bib straps and is no longer the base. HTH.


----------



## nor_cal_rider

I used to ride short stretches on a Carbon bike...then saw a really small stone get kicked up into a friends S-Works downtube and leave a dime sized chip in the paint....that was the day I ordered a Ti cross bike for times I either know or have the possibility of getting off pavement. My 23mm road tires don't help things from a durability or stability standpoint in loose material.

YMMV.


----------



## cwdzoot

Been riding gravel roads for the last 20 years in 700 x 23mm tires and it's amazing what they can do when you get it down. 


---
I am here: http://maps.google.com/maps?ll=34.831505,-82.389811


----------



## tempeteOntheRoad

I ride a titanium bike over any rideable surface. If I can foresee it, I'll put on 25mm stronger tires (Gatorskins) and classique 32 spokes 3x wheels. I just try to avoid slicing nice expensive tires when I can. Love the pictures of dirt riding shown here. Definitely some of the best quiet riding is found on those mostly car free roads, and the adventure is always what I'm looking for!


----------



## thechriswebb

tednugent said:


> Love the PBR in one hand. :thumbsup:
> 
> Is it mandatory for that ride?
> 
> I love this pic I stole from MTBR a while back:



Very appropriate. Looks like a New Belgium Fat Tire Ale.


----------



## thechriswebb

I've been getting in to riding my road bike off road. A greenway with natural surface was recently completed near my house so I've been using it as a shortcut to get other places. It's definitely more exciting but I need to get some new wheels and tires to switch out. I'm on 23's with high pressure and it beats the everliving hell out of me when I'm off road. Thinking about some cheap durable wheels with 28's; I think they will fit.


----------



## tednugent

I did try my road bike on a rail-trail last week.... makes me appreciate how smooth jersey roads are


----------



## Pablo

terry b said:


> Is this a good idea? Especially with CF frames?
> 
> I do this from time to time, but I always wonder. I hear the crap hitting my downtube and that can't be good, can it? When I lived in China I had two bikes, one steel and one ti and they were pretty much set up as cross bikes with bigger tires so no worries.
> 
> But every once in a while I want to go off road when I'm out riding around and I'm just not sure about whether it's good for my bike. Or good for me for that matter, 23 tires aren't exactly grabby in loose stuff and the last thing I want to do is ride an hour home with crusher finds embedded in my knee cap.
> 
> What prompted my question was this - the overflow parking for our good MUT is a big gravel/dirt/rutted lot and I always see people carrying their road bikes from the end of the pavement to their cars. I've never seen anyone riding in that lot. It's not very far, but no one rides it. And these guys look like they know what they're doing - nice bikes, the right clothing, etc.
> 
> I know that pros do this in races like Monte Paschi Eroica but it's not like they're paying for their bikes.
> 
> What do you think?


FWIW, I rode my aluminim Gios with 23s on countless dirt roads on the plains and in the mountains, including some really rocky and nasty Forest Service roads. I never sustained any damage to my bike or its carbon fork (with carbon steerer). I maybe got a few nicks to the paint from a rock or two, but that's all. I now ride my ti bike on the same roads. I can't imagine limiting myself to only smooth paved roads. Bikes are meant to be ridden. Roads are much more than freshly-paved tarmac. 

If you (not "you, terry b," but the gernal "you") are unable to adjust your weight and pick decent lines, I could see how riding on rough roads could potentially be harder on your bike, especially the wheels. However, a well handled and ridden road bike is pretty durable over dirt. 

I have also seen roadies carry their bikes over bits of dirt. I suspect it's about looks, not wanting to get their bike dirty, poor bike handling skills, and the same sort of philosophical nonesense that has some mountain bikers refuse to ride their mountain bikes on pavement.


----------



## GRAVELBIKE

Fitting larger tires and not running them at max PSI will go a long way towards making a conventional road bike more capable for off-pavement riding. If you're riding hardpacked dirt roads/trails, you can get by with minimal tread or even slicks.


----------



## BOOD

If/when I get a high end full carbon road bike I don't think I could ever bring myself to ride it in the dirt/gravel. I'll keep my hybrid for that.


----------

