# Carbon ebay frames



## euro-trash

The Hasa thread is so large it's hard to navigate (and many of the ebay links no longer work), so I'm starting a new thread. 

I'm looking at these two frames. Does anyone who has ordered either want to chime-in on build quality? Does anyone have any more geometry info than what is provided by the sellers? I guess more importantly, is the geo info they provide accurate? 

Anyone ridden both have have a comment on ride quality (I'm guessing they are similar in terms of stiffness and the all-overestimated vertical compliance). Thanks.


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## CleavesF

The ride quality is horrible. The geometry is completely off. And the build looks like it can explode at any moment. 

What do you want to hear that hasn't already been said?


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## jupiterrn

CleavesF said:


> The ride quality is horrible. The geometry is completely off. And the build looks like it can explode at any moment.
> 
> What do you want to hear that hasn't already been said?


But are they stiff and compliant?


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## euro-trash

There wasn't much discussion of these two particular frames under the Hasa thread. I'm curious whether the geo listed is accurate. It's not unheard of for these to not be accurate. 

I'm also curious if people have found the build quality of these two to be equal to that of the Hasa (and others discussed in that thread) frames. Seems like a legit question to me since I don't know of a way of determining whether these all come from the same factory (I'm guessing yes, but again, how can we really know?).


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## rydog9991

I got the one in the bottom picture. The geo specs that the seller provided were spot on. The build quality was great for the money. Just had to get a small shave off the BB. The clear coat was perfect on mine. Ride is pretty stiff and tracks nice and straight. I've had no complaints at all so far. For the money I think they are a great buy.


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## rollinrob

I have the top one with that fork. I like it as a second bike to ride when my Orbea Orca is out of commision or its wet outside.. Its a pretty good bike for the price, I would buy another if I had the parts to build it.


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## Walkinshaw

CleavesF said:


> The ride quality is horrible. The geometry is completely off. And the build looks like it can explode at any moment.
> 
> What do you want to hear that hasn't already been said?


you forgot to wink


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## zigurate

Certainly the ride quality can't be bad since we have people buying and happy with them.


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## CleavesF

zigurate said:


> Certainly the ride quality can't be bad since we have people buying and happy with them.


somebody missed the invisible wink.


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## uzziefly

jupiterrn said:


> But are they stiff and compliant?


And are they a good as say, well, I don't know... Treks?


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## JuanVerde

I'm about to pull the trigger on one of those. They have sold a *bunch* of those on ebay. For the most part, the only complaints I see are: an occasional run in the paint or something trivial. If they were truly crap, you'd see a buch of negative stuff posted in the sellers feedback.

Since more sellers are popping up, you might want to check the feedback of the people that are actually purchasing them.

The guys here on this site that have actually built them up and ridden them, also seem to give decent reviews. They seem like a good deal and all these ninja black build ups really look great.

Good luck.


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## ru1-2cycle

*ebay carbon frames*



euro-trash said:


> The Hasa thread is so large it's hard to navigate (and many of the ebay links no longer work), so I'm starting a new thread.
> 
> I'm looking at these two frames. Does anyone who has ordered either want to chime-in on build quality? Does anyone have any more geometry info than what is provided by the sellers? I guess more importantly, is the geo info they provide accurate?
> 
> Anyone ridden both have have a comment on ride quality (I'm guessing they are similar in terms of stiffness and the all-overestimated vertical compliance). Thanks.


I am about to bid on a sweet deal by seller bicycle-999...$328.00, with free carbon seatpost, and all carbon fork...plus he is throwing the seatpost clamp for free.:thumbsup:


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## fogliettaz

ru1-2cycle said:


> I am about to bid on a sweet deal by seller bicycle-999...$328.00, with free carbon seatpost, and all carbon fork...plus he is throwing the seatpost clamp for free.:thumbsup:


http://gallery.roadbikereview.com/showphoto.php?photo=68761&cat=500&ppuser=334524


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## ru1-2cycle

*Nice rig!*



fogliettaz said:


> http://gallery.roadbikereview.com/showphoto.php?photo=68761&cat=500&ppuser=334524


Lovely set up! I like the way the carbon weave just jumps out at you shimmering so gorgeous. I can not believe that anyone can get a carbon frame, fork and seatpost for less than US$400.00, what you would pay for an aluminum frame or else. Are you going to cut/trim the headset, you might poke your eye out or something, he-he. I just won the frame and will transfer the build and Nuevation M28 Aero II wheelset from my Scattante XRL Aluminum frame and can not wait to get it, sweet!!!:thumbsup:


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## raymonda

I think I have talked a friend of mine to build up the Kredo frame. This would be a project that I would help him with and I agree, they are a steal.

BTW., here is a final picture of my ride. I posted reports over at the HASA thread but to make it short, my Litespeed is now my rain bike.

Final over all weight is 14.35lbs.


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## ru1-2cycle

*RD Hanger*

Do the carbon frames from ebay seller bicycle_999 come with a RD hanger?


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## rydog9991

ru1-2cycle said:


> Do the carbon frames from ebay seller bicycle_999 come with a RD hanger?



yes sir


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## ru1-2cycle

rydog9991 said:


> yes sir


Hey thanks man! I can not wait to get this frame!(I got the one in the top picture but with the straight fork instead). So, this frame is the famous Hassa frame but without decals? I am planning to transfer the Shimano Tiagra and the Aheadset headset from the Scattante to this frame. Just in case it does not fit, does bicycle_999 sell headsets as well? Thanks again.


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## ru1-2cycle

raymonda said:


> I think I have talked a friend of mine to build up the Kredo frame. This would be a project that I would help him with and I agree, they are a steal.
> 
> BTW., here is a final picture of my ride. I posted reports over at the HASA thread but to make it short, my Litespeed is now my rain bike.
> 
> Final over all weight is 14.35lbs.


Wow man, that is a stealth bike! Did you get the frame from bicycle_999?


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## rydog9991

ru1-2cycle said:


> Hey thanks man! I can not wait to get this frame!(I got the one in the top picture but with the straight fork instead). So, this frame is the famous Hassa frame but without decals? I am planning to transfer the Shimano Tiagra and the Aheadset headset from the Scattante to this frame. Just in case it does not fit, does bicycle_999 sell headsets as well? Thanks again.



I don't think bicycle_99 sells headsets, and if you are getting the one in the top picture I believe that it is a Cane Creek standard (right raymonda?). The one in the bottom picture is the one I have and it takes a Campy compatible HS, the FSA CE is a perfect fit. Im not sure what kind your Scattante has only thing to do is slap it in there and see if it fits. If that doesn't fit I would just look for a name brand one on ebay rather than order one from one of these guys selling the frames. And yes it is the supposed "Hasa" frame, just like mine is the supposed "Kuota" frame. Even thought they are not they sure are great for the money.


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## raymonda

My model came from Itsall4sports and takes a Cane Creek standard HS.


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## Italianrider76

rydog9991 said:


> I don't think bicycle_99 sells headsets


They do sell headsets. They don't seem to advertise them on eBay but I just emailed then asking if they sold headsets to go with their Kredo look alike frame and I ended up just purchasing one from them.


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## robpar

euro-trash said:


> There wasn't much discussion of these two particular frames under the Hasa thread. I'm curious whether the geo listed is accurate. It's not unheard of for these to not be accurate.
> 
> I'm also curious if people have found the build quality of these two to be equal to that of the Hasa (and others discussed in that thread) frames. Seems like a legit question to me since I don't know of a way of determining whether these all come from the same factory (I'm guessing yes, but again, how can we really know?).


 I bought one like the first photo; 55 cm size; the geometry is great but the top tube dimension was off by 5 mm. I ride a Giant TCR Composite ad this frame rides as smooth. The trail is longer (shallower head angle) so the steering is not as responsive as my TCR but as a second back-up bike is great. Good quality finish, nice clean BB threads, tight headset tolerance for integrated ( I put a Cane Creek IS6), nice built-in barrel adjusters on the down tube. It weighs about 40 OZ( a little under 1200 grams) with bottle cage bolts and barrel adjusters. The fork weighs about 380 grams. 
The bad: clamp on FD (well I'm used to braze-on) BIG seat post, not very "quick steering" (but I knew that); VERY noisy. The tubes are huge and they resonate when the FD shifts (not used to the LOUD click).
I also heard from a guy who races them "volt cycling". Look at the cycling forum site under "chinese carbon frames"


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## ru1-2cycle

robpar said:


> I bought one like the first photo; 55 cm size; the geometry is great but the top tube dimension was off by 5 mm. I ride a Giant TCR Composite ad this frame rides as smooth. The trail is longer (shallower head angle) so the steering is not as responsive as my TCR but as a second back-up bike is great. Good quality finish, nice clean BB threads, tight headset tolerance for integrated ( I put a Cane Creek IS6), nice built-in barrel adjusters on the down tube. It weighs about 40 OZ( a little under 1200 grams) with bottle cage bolts and barrel adjusters. The fork weighs about 380 grams.
> The bad: clamp on FD (well I'm used to braze-on) BIG seat post, not very "quick steering" (but I knew that); VERY noisy. The tubes are huge and they resonate when the FD shifts (not used to the LOUD click).
> I also heard from a guy who races them "volt cycling". Look at the cycling forum site under "chinese carbon frames"


Well, at the delivered price of < US$400.00 no one can not argue that it is a risk well taken and a heck of a steal for the package from e-bay seller bicycle_999...thanks for the sweet deal bicycle_999, I appreciate it! :thumbsup:


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## robpar

ru1-2cycle said:


> Well, at the delivered price of < US$400.00 no one can not argue that it is a risk well taken and a heck of a steal for the package from e-bay seller bicycle_999...thanks for the sweet deal bicycle_999, I appreciate it! :thumbsup:


 I'm very happy with it. The only thing I really don't like is the seatpost and saddle clamp. I'm replacing it with a carbon 27.9 mm and using a shim. The frame and fork are actually lighter than my 2005 Giant TCR C3 (which has an alloy steerer)


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## robpar

ru1-2cycle said:


> Well, at the delivered price of < US$400.00 no one can not argue that it is a risk well taken and a heck of a steal for the package from e-bay seller bicycle_999...thanks for the sweet deal bicycle_999, I appreciate it! :thumbsup:


This the guy that responded to my questions on another forum and races one of the frames:

https://s78.photobucket.com/albums/j115/cyclist_sg/VOLTZ Racing/?action=view&current=P1010464.jpg


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## ru1-2cycle

*Seatpost*



robpar said:


> I'm very happy with it. The only thing I really don't like is the seatpost and saddle clamp. I'm replacing it with a carbon 27.9 mm and using a shim. The frame and fork are actually lighter than my 2005 Giant TCR C3 (which has an alloy steerer)


I also agree that the seatpost although free may be too big for my taste, and I have a 27.6 mm PBK carbon seatpost I may use now with a shim as well. Thanks robpar. Man, a budget carbon frame that is lighter than a Giant TCR C3 frame is just too sweet of a steal for us the bargain conscious consumers. Thanks again bicycle_999. :thumbsup:


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## MercuryMan76

I've been following all of these ebay carbon chinese frame threads as I've been really interested in purchasing one of these for a build up. I contacted bicycle_999 via ebay to ask a question about the standover height on the 52cm frames as I was interested in purchasing the frame, fork, seatpost and handlebar in one of the auctions for a buy it now price of $415 with $80 for shipping. In his response he said he could do the whole package for $450 shipped and I counteroffered with $425 which he accepted. I haven't completed the purchase yet, but I'll post up when I do. $425 for a frame, fork, handlebar, and seatpost shipped to the U.S. wasn't something that I could pass up. My plan is to build it up with a SRAM Rival group and I'm still undecided on the wheels. 

This is what I'm looking at in a 54cm size.


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## ru1-2cycle

*bicycle_999*

I just received a note from the US Postal Svc- I have a package from "China", and I just ordered this frame on 5/2/09! This is faster than I had expected, almost as fast as PBK!
My wife never goes to Walmart on Fridays, but she did today when I get this frame delivered...what are the odds, eh? Well, I will keep all posted.:thumbsup:


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## gearguywb

That is one smoking deal if you want to build up a race bike. If you wreck it...oh well, no huge tears at that price.


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## ru1-2cycle

*Super fast shipping!*

Wow, my wife just called me about picking up my frame from ebay seller bicycle_999 at the post office, said the big box was lighter than her purse. I am heading home early from work, can not believe I got this frame so cheap and so freaking fast: 5 days after paying on 5/3/9, all the way from China to Texas, now that is faster than PBK! Thanks a million ebay seller bicycle_999, I appreciate it, and I hope more bargain conscious consumers support you as well. Sincerely, ru1-2cycle


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## ru1-2cycle

*Flawless*

The frame is beautiful, crystal gorgeous clear coat on raw carbon, shimmering. The seatpost is OK, and I am still waiting for the missing fork. The box was sealed and it had postages that did not seem tampered with. I am patiently waiting for bicycle_999 to correct this little oversight, so I can build it up ASAP. :aureola: ru1-2cycle


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## ru1-2cycle

Just got a tracking number for the fork and a sweet deal on the headset.


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## ru1-2cycle

US $14.00 for the headset, delivery included...


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## ru1-2cycle

*Fork Update*

Just got my beautiful fork and took it to Richard's Cycle to put my new carbon steed together. Super fast shipping from China to Texas in 5 days...watch out PBK!


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## fogliettaz

I have built one of these bikes and been riding it for over a month now and am very happy with it. 

I have been looking at carbon wheels from China to add a bit more bling to the bike! has any one here had any experince of these?


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## ru1-2cycle

*Wheels*



fogliettaz said:


> I have built one of these bikes and been riding it for over a month now and am very happy with it.
> 
> I have been looking at carbon wheels from China to add a bit more bling to the bike! has any one here had any experince of these?


I got a Vuelta XRP carbon tubular wheelset from Mike @ Bikes Direct, $400.00 delivered x1.5 yrs ago with his Christmas special. They spin fast and still straight, a bit noisy, but reliable and lots of flashy bling. :thumbsup: ru1-2cycle


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## dougrocky123

*Maybe*

I've got about half a bikes worth of parts laying around so I've been looking at the same frame that MercuryMan has posted but with a strait fork. I've been wanting to try the Rival
group so thats where the big expense would be. Any updates on your china frames is appreciated!


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## ru1-2cycle

*China frames*



dougrocky123 said:


> I've got about half a bikes worth of parts laying around so I've been looking at the same frame that MercuryMan has posted but with a strait fork. I've been wanting to try the Rival
> group so thats where the big expense would be. Any updates on your china frames is appreciated!


Mine has the straight fork as well, and it is light and gorgeous. It is at the LBS, since I am using it to replace my every day bike Scatttante XRL, built with Tiagra 9 speed, Neuvations M28 Aero II's and super light and comfy bike Nashbar racing saddle that I bought for $14.99, and it has been as comfy and as sleek looking as my more expensive Selle saddles, he-he. The guys at the LBS are still drooling over my carbon bargain deal, still in shock... :thumbsup: ru1-2cycle


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## rogue_CT1

I just bought one of these frames for my wife tonight. I bought her the 50cm frame with the wavy fork. She really liked the way it looks and she's excited about her new frame. She has been riding a Nashbar Al frame for a couple years with 105 components and Mavic Ksyrium wheels I pulled off one of my bikes. 

I'm just going to swap out the components then she is selling her frame and fork to her friend and I'm going to get components and build it up for her.

The crazy thing is I've been approached by 4 other friends wanting to get into cycling and I'm steering them towards these ebay frames. I think they are going to buy the frames then I'll build all of their bikes too. It looks like I'll be building up about 6 bikes in the upcoming months. It may be a lot of work but I'm thrilled to be able to get that many more people into our great sport.


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## MercuryMan76

dougrocky123 said:


> I've got about half a bikes worth of parts laying around so I've been looking at the same frame that MercuryMan has posted but with a strait fork. I've been wanting to try the Rival
> group so thats where the big expense would be. Any updates on your china frames is appreciated!


I actually just changed it up and ended up buying the Kredo style frame in a 52cm size. I'm right about 5'8"/5'9" and my inseam is just a shade under 31". I noticed that the standover height on the first frame I was looking at was 801mm (or at least that's what the seller listed it as) and this wouldn't leave me any room to clear the bar at all. The Kredo style frame has a tad shorter standover height so hopefully it will all workout, although I may need to use a longer stem.

The frame I bought was the same as pictured here. Btw, I bought the frame, seatpost, wavy fork, handlebar, and seatpost clamp for $410 shipped. If anyone is thinking of buying one of these bikes try contacting the seller directly and make them an offer because more than likely I think they will accept it. I will post up some pictures of the frame when it arrives.

I'm also going to build this up with SRAM Rival I think. I've just been trying to decide on the wheelset to go with.


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## ru1-2cycle

Word of advise: ask for the available frame specific headset when you order the frame from bicycle_999 to avoid delays in getting it built.


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## sand101

MercuryMan76 said:


> I actually just changed it up and ended up buying the Kredo style frame in a 52cm size. I'm right about 5'8"/5'9" and my inseam is just a shade under 31". I noticed that the standover height on the first frame I was looking at was 801mm (or at least that's what the seller listed it as) and this wouldn't leave me any room to clear the bar at all. The Kredo style frame has a tad shorter standover height so hopefully it will all workout, although I may need to use a longer stem.
> 
> The frame I bought was the same as pictured here. Btw, I bought the frame, seatpost, wavy fork, handlebar, and seatpost clamp for $410 shipped. If anyone is thinking of buying one of these bikes try contacting the seller directly and make them an offer because more than likely I think they will accept it. I will post up some pictures of the frame when it arrives.
> 
> I'm also going to build this up with SRAM Rival I think. I've just been trying to decide on the wheelset to go with.


Definitely post about the frame and how it fits you. I am curious as you are right at my height and inseam. And how the SRAM Rival stuff works with it - also what I am thinking of getting if I do build it myself.


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## vadimivich

One of these frames with SRAM Rival and a decent wheelset seems like the ultimate crit bike. I'd love to see some pics as people in this thread get theirs built up.


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## rydog9991

vadimivich said:


> One of these frames with SRAM Rival and a decent wheelset seems like the ultimate crit bike. I'd love to see some pics as people in this thread get theirs built up.



There a whole bunch of them built up already in this thread.
http://forums.roadbikereview.com/showthread.php?t=146183


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## ru1-2cycle

Just got my headset from bicycle_999, paid on 5/13/09...delivered by 5/18/09...FIVE days all the way from China to west Texas...now that is the fast for only US $14.00.


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## Italianrider76

Which headset did you get? The one with the alloy top cap??


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## ru1-2cycle

Italianrider76 said:


> Which headset did you get? The one with the alloy top cap??


Yes, and fairly light too. It feels sturdy, hopefully durable as well.


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## ru1-2cycle

Just picked up my new carbon bike from the LBS...just gorgeous, the naked carbon weave sparkles with the sunlight like a jewel! My wife is the one that deals with the digital camera stuff, and I am going to try to persuade her to take some pixs and download to RBR to share with all interested. The LBS owner is so impressed with the quality and craftmanship of this frame, that he has contacted bicycle_999 to negotiate a deal for large volume orders and then he will resale with his cuctom frame label.


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## rogue_CT1

The frame I ordered for my wife arrived a couple days ago. The frame is beautiful and very light. I can't find any imperfections anywhere. My wife is excited about the bike and can't wait until I get it built. 

What headset are you using? I assume it is a Campy type headset? 

I'll post some pics when I get her built.


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## ru1-2cycle

*Headset*



rogue_CT1 said:


> The frame I ordered for my wife arrived a couple days ago. The frame is beautiful and very light. I can't find any imperfections anywhere. My wife is excited about the bike and can't wait until I get it built.
> 
> What headset are you using? I assume it is a Campy type headset?
> 
> I'll post some pics when I get her built.


Get the headset from bicycle_999 for $14.00 delivered!


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## rogue_CT1

I'd like to get it built tonight but I need a headset so I really don't want to wait until next weekend. I'd like for her to be able to ride it over the long weekend.

Do you happen to know if it's a 45/45 or 36/45 angled headset? 

I think I'll head to the LBS for a headset and handlebar tape.


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## ru1-2cycle

rogue_CT1 said:


> I'd like to get it built tonight but I need a headset so I really don't want to wait until next weekend. I'd like for her to be able to ride it over the long weekend.
> 
> Do you happen to know if it's a 45/45 or 36/45 angled headset?
> 
> I think I'll head to the LBS for a headset and handlebar tape.


Go for it, man, LBS time, hopefully they stock a similar headset. I do not know the angle, sorry. But this frame rocks, man, it feels as if I was riding with a tailwind always.


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## rogue_CT1

ru1-2cycle said:


> Go for it, man, LBS time, hopefully they stock a similar headset. I do not know the angle, sorry. But this frame rocks, man, it feels as if I was riding with a tailwind always.


I imagine the frame rides just about like my Scott CR1. If that's the case then my wife is in for a treat. I absolutely love my CR1. In fact, after buying the CR1, I was so impressed I sold my Colnago C50 and my Giant TCR carbon and I haven't regretted it for a second. 

I'd love to get one of these for myself if I could justify the expense of another component group.


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## ru1-2cycle

*Flawless*



rogue_CT1 said:


> I imagine the frame rides just about like my Scott CR1. If that's the case then my wife is in for a treat. I absolutely love my CR1. In fact, after buying the CR1, I was so impressed I sold my Colnago C50 and my Giant TCR carbon and I haven't regretted it for a second.
> 
> I'd love to get one of these for myself if I could justify the expense of another component group.


Get one, you will be so glad you did. Just transfer the group to this frame, it is worth it. My new bike weights in @ 18.65 lbs, 9 speed Tiagra with Neuvation M28 Aeros 2's and Ritchey Comp HB and stem. The frame is flawless, and it is stiff and steady while descending or hammering the big gears, no flex at all, and I am 185 lbs! It flies and cuts through the wind like a sharp knife on a t-bone steak...The straight all carbon fork is like a wing. I made the mistake of setting the seatpost 1cm too low and now I have an ugly scratch on it. Well, I guess that justifies me getting a new one as well from bicycle_999, LOL. :thumbsup:


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## lockwood1

ru1-2cycle said:


> Get one, you will be so glad you did. Just transfer the group to this frame, it is worth it. My new bike weights in @ 18.65 lbs, 9 speed Tiagra with Neuvation M28 Aeros 2's and Ritchey Comp HB and stem. The frame is flawless, and it is stiff and steady while descending or hammering the big gears, no flex at all, and I am 185 lbs! It flies and cuts through the wind like a sharp knife on a t-bone steak...The straight all carbon fork is like a wing. I made the mistake of setting the seatpost 1cm too low and now I have an ugly scratch on it. Well, I guess that justifies me getting a new one as well from bicycle_999, LOL. :thumbsup:



Pics:mad2: , Pics:mad2: , Pics:mad2:


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## ru1-2cycle

*Pixs*



lockwood1 said:


> Pics:mad2: , Pics:mad2: , Pics:mad2:


I pissed off the wife today. She handles the tech stuff and the digital camera. She was at a routine doctor's appointment, and I got out early from work, she wanted me to wait with her in the doctor's waiting room, it was a gorgeous spring day, and I have a new bike...come on, what do you think I would do...well, go and ride my new bike! I just could not bear sitting in a waiting room full of patients, when all I do is take care of sick people all week, and got lucky and got done early. She did not like that... Now I have to sweet talk her into doing the pixs, hopefully by Sunday. I expect to be in the dog house for a couple of days, but it was worth it, LOL


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## lockwood1

ru1-2cycle said:


> I pissed off the wife today. She handles the tech stuff and the digital camera. She was at a routine doctor's appointment, and I got out early from work, she wanted me to wait with her in the doctor's waiting room, it was a gorgeous spring day, and I have a new bike...come on, what do you think I would do...well, go and ride my new bike! I just could not bear sitting in a waiting room full of patients, when all I do is take care of sick people all week, and got lucky and got done early. She did not like that... Now I have to sweet talk her into doing the pixs, hopefully by Sunday. I expect to be in the dog house for a couple of days, but it was worth it, LOL


Ok so I'll be expecting your pics by sunday you got it:thumbsup: 
BTW good luck with the talking


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## ru1-2cycle

lockwood1 said:


> Ok so I'll be expecting your pics by sunday you got it:thumbsup:
> BTW good luck with the talking


Thanks, man, she is one tough Irish American woman...


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## rydog9991

rogue_CT1 said:


> I'd like to get it built tonight but I need a headset so I really don't want to wait until next weekend. I'd like for her to be able to ride it over the long weekend.
> 
> Do you happen to know if it's a 45/45 or 36/45 angled headset?
> 
> I think I'll head to the LBS for a headset and handlebar tape.



45/45 if you have the "kredo" frame.


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## ru1-2cycle

*Pixs*

How do I send in the pixs to this thread? :mad2:


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## rydog9991

ru1-2cycle said:


> How do I send in the pixs to this thread? :mad2:



sent you a pm


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## ru1-2cycle

*Thanks!*



rydog9991 said:


> sent you a pm


I appreciate it!


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## ru1-2cycle

*Pixs*

Here...


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## ru1-2cycle

*Pixs*

 :cryin: :mad2:


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## TempestRS4

Also posted in the hasa thread :thumbsup:


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## ru1-2cycle




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## ru1-2cycle




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## athletic91

this is my built, i think the fork rake is too much. a 970 wheelbase for a size 48 frame.

anw is this the krendo frame?


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## ru1-2cycle




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## ru1-2cycle

*Pixs*

Thanks Mercury for your tip, but I am still struggling with this tech stuff...:mad2:


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## ru1-2cycle




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## ru1-2cycle

*Carbon ebay frame built*


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## ru1-2cycle

*Finally...*



ru1-2cycle said:


>


Neuvation M28 Aero 2's, Ritchey Comp stem and HB, Nashbar RS2 race saddle (191g), Tiagra 9 speed group )PBK), Nashbar Alum pedals, Minoura cages...total weight= 18.65 lbs...total built cost < US$900.00, tax included.  ru1-2cycle


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## raymonda

RU12cycle- What's with you ability to post a picture? Follow the directions and ensure that it is the correct size. I still can't view anything you have attempted a thousand times. If you want people to see your new baby post the pictures directly here. Do not use some link that does not function correctly or forces me to subscribe.


----------



## ru1-2cycle

raymonda said:


> RU12cycle- What's with you ability to post a picture? Follow the directions and ensure that it is the correct size. I still can't view anything you have attempted a thousand times.


I am trying and thought I had succeeded


----------



## ru1-2cycle

This is the best I can do for now until I figure out what else to do. I wish all of this techno stuff was more user friendly.


----------



## raymonda

Copy the picture to your desk top then attach it to your message. It pretty simple.


----------



## MercuryMan76

With ru1-2cycle's permission I'm gonna post the pics of his bike for him.


----------



## athletic91

looks like ru1-2cycle and i got the same frame. friends commented that the geometry is epic. should have gottten the krendo frame.

btw i had a hard time finding the barrel adjusters for the frame


----------



## raymonda

ru1--2cycle,

Nice job. You put together a nice bike for a reasonably low cost. 10 years ago you could not have touched a bike like this for less than 4,000.

Times they are a changing.


----------



## ru1-2cycle

Thanks again Mercury! I appreciate it. ru1-2cycle.


----------



## ru1-2cycle

*Thanks!*



raymonda said:


> ru1--2cycle,
> 
> Nice job. You put together a nice bike for a reasonably low cost. 10 years ago you could not have touched a bike like this for less than 4,000.
> 
> Times they are a changing.


Thanks for the complemment, ray. Mercury rescued me...


----------



## ru1-2cycle

*geometry*



athletic91 said:


> looks like ru1-2cycle and i got the same frame. friends commented that the geometry is epic. should have gottten the krendo frame.
> 
> btw i had a hard time finding the barrel adjusters for the frame


I like the geometry, more like semi compact, it is front heavy, so she descends like a falcon. It is more comfortable than the Scattante XRL Alu frame of course. I really like the chainstays projecting out of the BB like a fork. I have been riding with strong winds, but feels like I have a tailwind, with sweet accelerations regardless. I also have the Tommaso
carbon Aggraziato, but have been riding this one mostly, just continue to get acquainted with her. I made the mistake of going too low on the seatpost and have a nasty scratch on the side of the seatpost, but just finished ordering a new one from bicycle_999 for $35.00 delivered... ru1-2cycle


----------



## lockwood1

Hey! ru1-2cycle been waiting since sunday for your pics and I got to tell you, you did hell of a job, your bike look really awesome.:thumbsup: 
Congratulations and enjoy it


----------



## ru1-2cycle

lockwood1 said:


> Hey! ru1-2cycle been waiting since sunday for your pics and I got to tell you, you did hell of a job, your bike look really awesome.:thumbsup:
> Congratulations and enjoy it


Thanks, lockwood, I appreciate it. She rides super smooth too.


----------



## lockwood1

ru1-2cycle said:


> Thanks, lockwood, I appreciate it. She rides super smooth too.


*ALWAYS WELCOME*:thumbsup:


----------



## athletic91

raymonda said:


> I think I have talked a friend of mine to build up the Kredo frame. This would be a project that I would help him with and I agree, they are a steal.
> 
> BTW., here is a final picture of my ride. I posted reports over at the HASA thread but to make it short, my Litespeed is now my rain bike.
> 
> Final over all weight is 14.35lbs.


is this the krendo frame btw?


----------



## athletic91

im wondering when these ebay sellers would have new design of frame... hopefully we may see a soloist frame replica soon haha


----------



## rogue_CT1

Here's the ebay frame I built up for my wife over the weekend. I had the wheels and components sitting in the basement so I only had to buy a headset and new cables. 

Sorry for the crappy pic. I took it in bright daylight with my iphone. I'll try to get some better digital pics later. 

She is thrilled with the bike and can't stop talking about how fast and comfortable it is. 











ru1-2cycle- what type of headset did you use for that frame? I am going to build one for my friend next week and I need to know if it's the same Campy style 45/45 degree bearing as my wife's bike.


----------



## lockwood1

sweeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeet ride enjoy it:thumbsup:


----------



## athletic91

rogue_CT1 said:


> Here's the ebay frame I built up for my wife over the weekend. I had the wheels and components sitting in the basement so I only had to buy a headset and new cables.
> 
> Sorry for the crappy pic. I took it in bright daylight with my iphone. I'll try to get some better digital pics later.
> 
> She is thrilled with the bike and can't stop talking about how fast and comfortable it is.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ru1-2cycle- what type of headset did you use for that frame? I am going to build one for my friend next week and I need to know if it's the same Campy style 45/45 degree bearing as my wife's bike.


 what frame size is that?


----------



## rogue_CT1

athletic91 said:


> what frame size is that?


It's a 50cm


----------



## theone29

MercuryMan76 said:


> I've been following all of these ebay carbon chinese frame threads as I've been really interested in purchasing one of these for a build up. I contacted bicycle_999 via ebay to ask a question about the standover height on the 52cm frames as I was interested in purchasing the frame, fork, seatpost and handlebar in one of the auctions for a buy it now price of $415 with $80 for shipping. In his response he said he could do the whole package for $450 shipped and I counteroffered with $425 which he accepted. I haven't completed the purchase yet, but I'll post up when I do. $425 for a frame, fork, handlebar, and seatpost shipped to the U.S. wasn't something that I could pass up. My plan is to build it up with a SRAM Rival group and I'm still undecided on the wheels.
> 
> This is what I'm looking at in a 54cm size.


Anyone here got this specific frame built up? I just pick up a 44cm and will initially set it up a a SS. What major/known manufacture have this model? thanks.


----------



## robpar

Yes, I do. I have it in 55 cm size; check virtual TT; mine was about 10cm longer than advertised. Had to trim seat post 'cause it was rubbing inside of seat tube below seat clamp (it creaked) It's an Ok frame. It's my "B" bike. Actually, I would not buy the seat post or seat clamp. I'd say this frame is similar to what you can buy for $800 in US (motobecane; scattante, pedal force); so it's a good deal. Better than my Giant OCR 1; lighter;stiffer, but not as good as my Giant TCR CT. this frame has a shallow head tube angle so it has a longer trail than my TCR. I have it buit-up with mostly 105 group and triple crank for easy rides. My TCR is my "work-out" bike.


----------



## lockwood1

robpar said:


> Yes, I do. I have it in 55 cm size; check virtual TT; mine was about 10cm longer than advertised. Had to trim seat post 'cause it was rubbing inside of seat tube below seat clamp (it creaked) It's an Ok frame. It's my "B" bike. Actually, I would not buy the seat post or seat clamp. I'd say this frame is similar to what you can buy for $800 in US (motobecane; scattante, pedal force); so it's a good deal. Better than my Giant OCR 1; lighter;stiffer, but not as good as my Giant TCR CT. this frame has a shallow head tube angle so it has a longer trail than my TCR. I have it buit-up with mostly 105 group and triple crank for easy rides. My TCR is my "work-out" bike.



Pics:mad2: , pics:mad2: , pics:mad2:


----------



## biketaviousmaximus

*My DIY Santa Cruz*

Here my frame I'm about to build. After trying to get a santa cruz road frame, I had no luck so I decided to 'badge' my own. I'm a Mountain biker first and ride road for endurance fitness.

I love my Nomad and Blur so thought I'll DIY a Santa Cruz Roadie.

I'll put some built pics up laters!


----------



## theone29

what size is that? how much did you paid for the paint job? nice color scheme. please post finish pictures. thanks for sharing.


----------



## biketaviousmaximus

It's the 55cm from bicycle_999 , I taped the paintjob my self, and a sign writer mate painted. It only cost me for materials which was about $60 aus. :thumbsup: :thumbsup: :thumbsup: 

I've almost built it up and it looks TITS!!!!!!


----------



## athletic91

new wheels


----------



## lockwood1

Great built:thumbsup: 
who was the e-bay seller?


----------



## raymonda

Great job with the paint!


----------



## velomateo

Biketaviousmaximus - Your frame looks awesome. Did your painter clear coat after paint? I have the same frame and was considering doing something very close to your paint layout, only in white. Mine is already built and I don't want to tear it down to paint...maybe over the winter. Good luck with your build.


----------



## biketaviousmaximus

Yeah, it was clear coated as I had to lighly sand the frame for the base coat(red/white) to adhere to.


----------



## nenad

No more no name carbon for me, unless your into asphalt ploughing (with your face).


----------



## theone29

wow. what happen?


----------



## athletic91

nenad pls explain what happened. i begin to worry for my frame seeing ur pic


----------



## nenad

a friend of mine, as he was going downhill at about 40 km/h (by no means flying, but fast enough) hit a pothole (see pic). At that moment he was breaking but lightly, essentially just controlling the speed. And then, the head tube snapped as the wheel hit the pothole.

Now, it ain't much of a pothole, I would expect, if anything, a spoke on a wheel to give up and not the head tube of the frame !

He's gonna be alright, no broken bones, the majority of impact was absorbed by his helmet and (ouch) his face. He says he's gonna write to Bell to thank them, as the helmet probably saved his life.

I'm sorry if this is a spoiler, but you guys need to know about this. For the record, the frame was used for about 2 years and did not suffer any crashes. The brand is reportedly Italian, but this is a rebranded far eastern carbon frame.


----------



## nenad

Here's another picture, close up of the head tube


----------



## biketaviousmaximus

WTF!!!! What happened??? What frame??? Ebay?? I feel nervous and I haven't ridden mine yet??:eek6: :yikes: :yikes:


----------



## nenad

it was bought locally, not ebay


----------



## athletic91

thats good news, at least so for none of the ebay frames have failed


----------



## velomateo

I hope your friend is recovering well, but I wouldn't recomend front breaking while decending through a pot hole riddled area on any bike. That pot hole looks pretty nasty to me. I think that under the conditions you described that many bikes, regardless of frame material or country of origin, would have experienced some type of failure. More or less, all the conditons were met to create the perfect storm.


----------



## stevesbike

velomateo said:


> I hope your friend is recovering well, but I wouldn't recomend front breaking while decending through a pot hole riddled area on any bike. That pot hole looks pretty nasty to me. I think that under the conditions you described that many bikes, regardless of frame material or country of origin, would have experienced some type of failure. More or less, all the conditons were met to create the perfect storm.


what? - a frame should be able to handle potholes without failure - as the OP mentioned, you might expect a wheel failure but definitely not a frame failure. As for braking, front braking to control speed is the norm unless there's loose sand/gravel where you need to guard against your front wheel sliding out. I've never seen a frame fail like that - no question a big time manufacturing defect...


----------



## nenad

stevesbike said:


> what? - a frame should be able to handle potholes without failure - as the OP mentioned, you might expect a wheel failure but definitely not a frame failure. As for braking, front braking to control speed is the norm unless there's loose sand/gravel where you need to guard against your front wheel sliding out. I've never seen a frame fail like that - no question a big time manufacturing defect...


ty steve. I wish to emphasize he was breaking to control speed, that means light touch on the brakes, not slam on the brakes. Any well made frame (headset) / fork combo should've handled forces acting upon them without much issue.

I've hit potholes myself, I've broken spokes before, I've seen bikes with bent headset cups, but I've never seen a failed headset tube. In fact, just think about pictures of bikes who had frontal impact, you would always see either front wheel broke or fork snapped off, frame generally remained intact.


----------



## MercuryMan76

Did your friend contact "Switch" after the accident at all? Was the bike under warranty? What was the follow-up?



nenad said:


> ty steve. I wish to emphasize he was breaking to control speed, that means light touch on the brakes, not slam on the brakes. Any well made frame (headset) / fork combo should've handled forces acting upon them without much issue.
> 
> I've hit potholes myself, I've broken spokes before, I've seen bikes with bent headset cups, but I've never seen a failed headset tube. In fact, just think about pictures of bikes who had frontal impact, you would always see either front wheel broke or fork snapped off, frame generally remained intact.


----------



## Master Cylinder

nenad said:


> No more no name carbon for me, unless your into asphalt ploughing (with your face).


Isn't the difference between "name" and "no name" marketing/advertising?

Since it appears that only 3 or 4 factories make the overwhelming majority of carbon frames, so what brands would not be considered a "no name" carbon frame? And have any of these "name" frames ever had unexplained failures?

(I've witnessed an Orbea Orca chainstay snap while climbing, by the way.)

Thanx,


----------



## nenad

No, he didn't contact Switch yet, he's still in hospital. The frame was not new, he rode it for about 2 years, but I do know the bike has been cared for and was not crashed before. I'll keep everyone posted.


----------



## nenad

Master Cylinder said:


> Isn't the difference between "name" and "no name" marketing/advertising?
> 
> Since it appears that only 3 or 4 factories make the overwhelming majority of carbon frames, so what brands would not be considered a "no name" carbon frame? And have any of these "name" frames ever had unexplained failures?
> 
> (I've witnessed an Orbea Orca chainstay snap while climbing, by the way.)
> 
> Thanx,


Ok, this is what I mean: I'll buy Giant or Gios, I will not buy Hasa or Switch.

How's that ?

Also, what appears is often different from what is.


----------



## velomateo

stevesbike said:


> As for braking, front braking to control speed is the norm unless there's loose sand/gravel where you need to guard against your front wheel sliding out.


 Check the picture again Stevie.


----------



## stevesbike

velomateo said:


> Check the picture again Stevie.


what's your point - there's not enough loose material there to worry about, besides you can't blame braking for that frame failure even in conjunction with a pothole (and it's not much of a pothole).


----------



## nenad

stevesbike said:


> what's your point - there's not enough loose material there to worry about, besides you can't blame braking for that frame failure even in conjunction with a pothole (and it's not much of a pothole).


First of all, Steve is right, the hole ain't big, I've hit much bigger. Second, there's another picture which shows this section of the road is straight (also shows much better that the hole is insignificant; also shows blood on the road so I won't post) so my buddy wasn't banking the bike. Third, he is a former racer and his handling skills are, to put it modestly, better than average.

The frame failed in and of itself. Abysmally.


----------



## stevesbike

thought I'd take a look at the Switch website - they look like a pretty high-end company (and make it look as though the frames are handmade made in Italy - pics of molds, guys holding carbon fiber etc).


----------



## Frank-L

This is quite something to see. I wonder how a top class carbon bike like a Cervelo or Look would have handled an impact like this? Why aren't all the frames tested and certified? I am just starting to read on CEN standards; 

*Interesting link !*
do a google search on "EN 14781 ZEN COMPOSITES" it is a pdf file, very interesting reading which replicates the impact force scenario similar to this accident at page 7
(I do not believe I can post a hotlink.)

*Cervélo quality control*
http://tinyurl.com/lt8uus
_Due to strict European safety standards for racing bike frame design (CEN standard EN14781) any bike frame made for street racing use which may also be purchased through a retail outlet must pass a rigorous battery of durability tests. One example of these tests is a bottom bracket flexion test which repeatedly applies 20kg of pressure to the bottom bracket for 100,000 cycles. We witnessed this test in progress at Cervelo and, according to Phil White, Cervelo simply shuts the test down after a whopping 300,000 cycles. In other words, Cervelo's bikes withstand three times the amount of testing required by the most demanding racing frame safety test on the planet._

Anyways this thread is making me think that the industry should be forced to go through this standard strength test. Another example I read recently:

*Zipp Vumaquad crank*
http://tinyurl.com/nh56vx
_The VumaQuad is a 4-arm compact crank fits the emerging 30mm BB standard, has a 30.0mm spindle and 30mm bearings. This crank set is 33% stiffer than the next lightest product on the market and passed the new increased CEN fatigue test at the new standard of 1800 Newtons._


Francois


----------



## raymonda

nenad said:


> Ok, this is what I mean: I'll buy Giant or Gios, I will not buy Hasa or Switch.
> 
> How's that ?
> 
> Also, what appears is often different from what is.


It appears that your information about Switch was irresponsable. Switch is not a no-name Chi-Ti ebay carbon frame but rather a high end Italian manufacturer, who actually make their frames in Italy. So, please correct your mistake and announce that you will no longer buy or consider buying an expensive highend carbon bike, especially one made by Italian craftsman in Italy.

Also, you might want to put this under another thread since it is totaly unrelated to the topic. Maybe next to the Kestral, Pinarello and Litespeed photos of a catastrophic breakdown of one of their frames.

Too bad about your friend. I seriously wish him the bests!


----------



## raymonda

Check Switch's web site for their safety standards.


----------



## JaeP

Whew! I was about to pull the trigger and get me one of those carbon eBay bikes too. Gives me something to think about some more.


----------



## rydog9991

JaeP said:


> Whew! I was about to pull the trigger and get me one of those carbon eBay bikes too. Gives me something to think about some more.


Why? This guy has got everybody freaked out over a brand of bike that is totally different than these ebay frames. He might as well get on any of the other manufacturers forums and claim that since his buddies carbon Switch frame failed that all of theirs will too. Quit freaking everyone out man. Any brand you buy there is always going to risk that something might fail. Nobody yet has had a problem yet with the cheapo ebay frames, and until they do I will promote them. I love mine!


----------



## nenad

rydog9991 said:


> Why? This guy has got everybody freaked out over a brand of bike that is totally different than these ebay frames. He might as well get on any of the other manufacturers forums and claim that since his buddies carbon Switch frame failed that all of theirs will too. Quit freaking everyone out man. Any brand you buy there is always going to risk that something might fail. Nobody yet has had a problem yet with the cheapo ebay frames, and until they do I will promote them. I love mine!


Lol, I am not trying to freak everyone out man.

It's just that stuff like this scares me. It is because of potential failue like this that I've sold my carbon bike (which by the way was Italian hand made, but I just wasn't so sure) 2 years ago and now have a 20 year old steel ride...

I guess the moral of the story is Frank-L's post. I would absolutely have no problem buying a carbon Cervelo for example.

Regards,

Ned

P.S. We will write to Switch bikes and see what they have to say. My friend is STILL in the hospital (the accident happened this past Thursday).


----------



## nenad

raymonda said:


> It appears that your information about Switch was irresponsable. Switch is not a no-name Chi-Ti ebay carbon frame but rather a high end Italian manufacturer, who actually make their frames in Italy. So, please correct your mistake and announce that you will no longer buy or consider buying an expensive highend carbon bike, especially one made by Italian craftsman in Italy.
> 
> Also, you might want to put this under another thread since it is totaly unrelated to the topic. Maybe next to the Kestral, Pinarello and Litespeed photos of a catastrophic breakdown of one of their frames.
> 
> Too bad about your friend. I seriously wish him the bests!


This does need its own thread, I agree with that.

I fully disagree with the rest of the gibberish but I don't have time to argue now. Just for your info: Pinarello, Colnago, De Rosa and such are high end, reputable bike companies. Until 4 years ago, Switch didn't exist as a bike company, and as such their claim that they make high end, hand made carbon frames should be taken with caution (i.e. don't believe everything you read).


----------



## lalahsghost

nenad said:


> This does need its own thread, I agree with that.
> 
> I fully disagree with the rest of the gibberish but I don't have time to argue now. Just for your info: Pinarello, Colnago, De Rosa and such are high end, reputable bike companies. Until 4 years ago, Switch didn't exist as a bike company, and as such their claim that they make high end, hand made carbon frames should be taken with caution (i.e. don't believe everything you read).


Now we all know that a handful of factories make a ****ton of company's bikes.

BUT

Can we prove that these recent 12k carbon frames being gnabbed off of ebay have any relationship with this two year old damaged bicycle?

What would a statistician say? Correlation does not show causation? Or is it the other way around?

I'm not pushing either side to admit to fault, but I don't like these jumps to conclusions and near slandering/pedestaling. Of course this is the ****in' interweebs.

I herd treks ar gud bieks.


----------



## kiwisimon

nenad said:


> I fully disagree with the rest of the gibberish but I don't have time to argue now. Just for your info: Pinarello, Colnago, De Rosa and such are high end, reputable bike companies.


http://www.bustedcarbon.com


----------



## nenad

kiwisimon said:


> http://www.bustedcarbon.com


I see your point.

Perhaps my first post was too inflamatory.

It happened to a good friend of mine. I got emotional. I'm still emotional.


----------



## raymonda

nenad said:


> I would absolutely have no problem buying a carbon Cervelo for example.
> QUOTE]
> 
> Even after the Cervelo exploding fork recall?


----------



## JaeP

*I'm a fatalist.*



rydog9991 said:


> Why? This guy has got everybody freaked out over a brand of bike that is totally different than these ebay frames. He might as well get on any of the other manufacturers forums and claim that since his buddies carbon Switch frame failed that all of theirs will too. Quit freaking everyone out man. Any brand you buy there is always going to risk that something might fail. Nobody yet has had a problem yet with the cheapo ebay frames, and until they do I will promote them. I love mine!


For me it's a matter of confidence in the material. I have 10 bikes (8 steel and 2, easily replaceable, alum. race bikes). I have been thinking of getting a more "modern" bike (for example, I still use downtube shifters. My only concession is a 9spd STI on my race bike). Most of the guys I ride with have carbon bikes and they're all around 5'5" - 5'8" and 160lbs. I'm 6'2" and 235lbs. 

A no name carbon frame does nothing for my confidence. I'm still tempted by the eBay carbon frame (I'm a notorious cheap skate) but I will always have that thought in the back of my mind saying "how many more bumps in the road can this bike handle before some sort of failure."


----------



## silicagel

rydog9991 said:


> I don't think bicycle_99 sells headsets


he does sell headsets and they fit in pretty well! 
Bought one with a kredo-like frame: perfect!


----------



## ru1-2cycle

*Headsets*



silicagel said:


> he does sell headsets and they fit in pretty well!
> Bought one with a kredo-like frame: perfect!


I got my headset from bicycle_999for a sweet $14.00...delivery included and in 1 week, and it is as solid feeling as my FSA on my other bike, and with the carbon spacer it looks pretty cool, not cheapo.


----------



## raymonda

I'm helping a friend build up one of these bikes and we settled on a Kredo knock-off due to fit. He stopped by today and we began to assemble some of the bike with the parts he has received so far.

Inspecting the frame I was very impressed. It was perfect in finish. Sure the hanger needed adjustment but that was a simple fix with my park tool. Everything was in perfect alignment! And, to boot, everything weighed what it was claimed to or less. He bought the package with cages, fork, handlebars and seatpost. 

When we are finished he will have around $1700 into the bike. It will be fitted with AC420's Campy Centaur RD/FD and cranks 53/39, with Chorus brifters. It will also have 2007 Chorus brakes. We put a 13-26 Centaur cassette and a Record chain on it, too.

With the ability to assemble a bike like this at such a low price it is just to tempting. If this rides as well as it looks, and reports from others state it does, this is going to be one tight package.

I'll post pictures when it is done since this frame has been posted here many times and you already know what it looks like. We are hoping to get this bike in at around 16.25lbs.


----------



## JVHB

*Ebay "Kredo" frames in different qualities?*

I have also been looking at these "Kredo" frames - mainly to build a second bike to have as a spare.
From what I have read here in the forum, most seem to have bought the really cheap sub $350 frames complete with forks from 88bikefun and others - such as this:









I did see a mention of the $500 Kredo OEM frame sold by "itsall4sports", but haven't heard of any hands-on impressions yet:









What I am trying to establish is if all the Kredo looking frames, from different sellers, are in fact from the same factory and the same quality or not. 
Even if they may all copies, there could still be a huge quality difference from one knock-off to the other.
The more expensive frame looks to be much nicer, but it just be that the pics are more flattering...

So I asked the ebay seller "itsall4sports" about it, and he has replied:

"_The frame we are selling are from the OEM factory of Kuota, Martec from taiwan, not like those fake frame from china, and we can provide 2 years warranty on all carbon frame sold, but I don't think those frames from china will include warranty.thanks_"

This sounds like great news to me, as I would much rather pay a few $100 more, and get a frame that is actually from the right factory - and may then be considered just about the same as the real thing! In my mind that is a whole different thing, than a no-name knock-off coming from a mainland China factory, with no relation to Kuota at all.
- Not to say that these cheaper frames, can't be decent enough as such, but a copy made in another country is a whole different ballgame to me.

So I would love to believe the information from "itsall4sports", and buy one of the $500 frames, but the there is just the geometry issue: The OEM Kredo is advertised as a 2007 model, but when I check the specs for the real Kuota Kredo 2007, they are quite different from the specs given on ebay. So now I don't really know what to think :/
I guess I should ask him about it, and see if there is a plausible explanation.

In the meantime, I would love to hear from anyone who has bought the $500 OEM Kuota Kredo - or perhaps someone who has the real thing, and can tell from the ebay pics if there are any subtle differences on the frame?

raymonda>>> Would love to see some closeups of your friends Kredo frame - although I suspect it is the very cheap model, yes?

Thanks


----------



## raymonda

Yep, he went with the less espensive seller, since they appear to be the same. After he has it built we'll post pictures.

Even if the frames are the same, the 2 year warrenty is worth the extra money and I know for a fact that itsall4sport is excellent at standing behind his product and response almost immediately to any concerns or questions after the sale. More so than most American based company that can take days or weeks to get a repsonse.


----------



## JVHB

Yes 2 year warranty is certainly worth something extra - especially if the seller actually honors it! 

I already got a reply from itsall4sport regarding the different geometry for their OEM Kredo:
_
"Please notice they didn't get the permission from Kuota to sell the exact same geometry frame as Kredo, so they have to do some adjustment on the geometry, thanks"_

- I have to say I find that pretty plausible, and a good reason to make basically the same frame but with a slight change in geometry, as to avoid lawsuits/problems with Kuota.

So I am getting more and more certain that the cheap and the really cheap Kredo frames are in fact _not_ the same, which makes the more expensive Kredo model look even more attractive. 

When looking closely at the ebay pics, it looks like the really cheap "$350" frame has aluminum dropouts/ends both in the rear and on the fork. 
The $500 Kredo seems to have all carbon ends on both fork and frame - except for the RD hanger. Does anyone know how the genuine Kredo is set up?

Would love to hear from someone who actually bought it...


----------



## raymonda

The less expensive one does infact have aluminum dropouts. However, the machining is spot on. Also, the allignment was perfect.


----------



## vmajor

Also keep in mind that the shape of the frame is just one variable.

Significant manufacturing cost savings can be made by using different grade materials.

Thus, even identical looking frames may be entirely different from one another one since carbon fiber composite is exactly that, a carbon fiber COMPOSITE material. This means that the final carbon composite material properties are completely determined by the grade and quality of the carbon fiber and the resin used.

In metallurgical terms, the difference is similar to making a frame from the cheap non-heat treated 6061 alloy, versus the top of the range 7005 alloy. They will both look the same, but will not have the same performance.

As to which one is the "real" Kuota or not, I guess you can email Kuota or Martec and ask them...

V.


----------



## JVHB

vmajor said:


> ....even identical looking frames may be entirely different from one another one since carbon fiber composite is exactly that, a carbon fiber COMPOSITE material. This means that the final carbon composite material properties are completely determined by the grade and quality of the carbon fiber and the resin used. (...)
> V.


 - Yes, very very good point, and that is exactly why I would much prefer a copy frame from the factory that made the original frame, than a copy frame from a totally unrelated factory.

Perhaps it seems like nonsense to talk about "real" copy vs. "fake" copy, but to me it seems logical, that the original factory is far more likely to make a frame that is very close to the real thing in terms of both look, feel and quality.

- In other words: Will the _real fake_ Kredo frame please stand up?


----------



## biketaviousmaximus

*Build pics as promised*

So Far so good,

SRAM RIVAL drivetrain, with matrix hubs and reynolds rims.

Only done 170km due to bad weather, I have to ride my 'real' Santa Cruz untill the rain stops. Still on the hunt for a Santa Cruz Roadster............:cryin:


----------



## josephjcole

*sizing help needed*

I've been watching this discussion with some curiousity as they look to be nice frames for a reasonable price. Unfortunately my Bianchi San Lorenzo frame which I've been happy with for several years now finally quit on me. I had dented the top tube two years ago in a wreck and just noticed today that a large crack is starting to form around this dent:cryin: 
So as much as I love my Bianchi I'm now in the market for a new frame. The fake Kredo frame from bicycle_999 looks good. I would get the one from itsallforsports but even the $350 is pushing my budget right now.
My question is that I'm having trouble knowing which size to get. The Kredo seem to have rather large head tubes. Right now I'm on a 57 San Lorenzo, the geometry info is here. I have a setback seat post, and the 130mm stem is right up against the head tube. I had just recently moved the hadlebars/stem down against the head tube trying to get lower on the bike, and I think I might need a shorter stem maybe 110-120mm. Anyways my dilema comes from the fact that the 56cm Kredo has the exact same size top tube as my Bianchi, but 18mm more head tube. The 54 has a similar size head tube to the Bianchi, but 14mm shorter top tube. I guess the 56cm would be the safer option, but I wouldn't be able to get as low on the bike as I am now.
Also the Kredo comes with a straight seat post while on the Bianchi I have a set back Ritchety post. Though the Kredo has a slightly larger seat tube angle. 
I'll stop there for now. I obviously don't know that much about frame geometry or fitting, and any advice you have would be great. 
As a side note has any body bought from bicycle_999 outside of ebay? I got a email from [email protected] after asking a question through ebay. Is this legit? I imagine I could save some money by buying outside of ebay, but I certainly don't want to get ripped off.
thanks in advance
Joe


----------



## MercuryMan76

I ordered my Kredo knock-off from bicycle_999 outside of ebay. I did get the same email as you did. 



josephjcole said:


> I've been watching this discussion with some curiousity as they look to be nice frames for a reasonable price. Unfortunately my Bianchi San Lorenzo frame which I've been happy with for several years now finally quit on me. I had dented the top tube two years ago in a wreck and just noticed today that a large crack is starting to form around this dent:cryin:
> So as much as I love my Bianchi I'm now in the market for a new frame. The fake Kredo frame from bicycle_999 looks good. I would get the one from itsallforsports but even the $350 is pushing my budget right now.
> My question is that I'm having trouble knowing which size to get. The Kredo seem to have rather large head tubes. Right now I'm on a 57 San Lorenzo, the geometry info is here. I have a setback seat post, and the 130mm stem is right up against the head tube. I had just recently moved the hadlebars/stem down against the head tube trying to get lower on the bike, and I think I might need a shorter stem maybe 110-120mm. Anyways my dilema comes from the fact that the 56cm Kredo has the exact same size top tube as my Bianchi, but 18mm more head tube. The 54 has a similar size head tube to the Bianchi, but 14mm shorter top tube. I guess the 56cm would be the safer option, but I wouldn't be able to get as low on the bike as I am now.
> Also the Kredo comes with a straight seat post while on the Bianchi I have a set back Ritchety post. Though the Kredo has a slightly larger seat tube angle.
> I'll stop there for now. I obviously don't know that much about frame geometry or fitting, and any advice you have would be great.
> As a side note has any body bought from bicycle_999 outside of ebay? I got a email from [email protected] after asking a question through ebay. Is this legit? I imagine I could save some money by buying outside of ebay, but I certainly don't want to get ripped off.
> thanks in advance
> Joe


----------



## AlexCad5

josephjcole said:


> My question is that I'm having trouble knowing which size to get. The Kredo seem to have rather large head tubes. Right now I'm on a 57 San Lorenzo, the geometry info is here. I have a setback seat post, and the 130mm stem is right up against the head tube. I had just recently moved the hadlebars/stem down against the head tube trying to get lower on the bike, and I think I might need a shorter stem maybe 110-120mm.
> Joe


 If you move to a shorter stem, you will be higher on the bike. Being high or low is a function of reach not how high or low the bars are. It doesn't make any sense to drop the bars to get lower, then shorten the stem so that you can reach the bars in that low position, because it will in effect raise your body position to where it was before.
Worry about your reach and the bikes balance. Being too low (too long of a reach) or too high (too short of a reach) will mess with the bikes handling, and in the case of the too long of reach will be more fatiguing, especially at critical times like descending. It will cause back and neck and elbow and possibly wrist fatigue and pain.


----------



## tron

I was looking at these and was/possibly still am very close to picking up what would be the scott oem with a straight fork. Has anyone else noticed that they stopped representing them as being OEM frames? at least on the ones Bicycle_999 is selling. I am still worried about the sizing not seeing anyone around my size saying what they have bought. I currently ride a 56 specialized and am around 5'11.5 with short(er) legs.


----------



## biketaviousmaximus

I bought the 55cm which has a 54.5cm TT. I'm 5-11 and have about 50mm of drop on these bars.


----------



## peterk

Could we get some other comments about the size frames they went with? I am curious like the earlier poster. I am about 6feet tall, fairly normal proportions.


----------



## josephjcole

AlexCad5 said:


> If you move to a shorter stem, you will be higher on the bike. Being high or low is a function of reach not how high or low the bars are. It doesn't make any sense to drop the bars to get lower, then shorten the stem so that you can reach the bars in that low position, because it will in effect raise your body position to where it was before.
> Worry about your reach and the bikes balance. Being too low (too long of a reach) or too high (too short of a reach) will mess with the bikes handling, and in the case of the too long of reach will be more fatiguing, especially at critical times like descending. It will cause back and neck and elbow and possibly wrist fatigue and pain.


thanks so much for the explanation. That all makes sense, I obviously still have a lot to learn about bicycle fitting. 

MercuryMan76-
I went ahead and ordered outside of ebay as well. (size 56) thanks.


----------



## tron

The sizing is driving me crazy. I was looking at this frame...

http://cgi.ebay.com/New-Hasa-Full-Carbon-Road-bike-Frame-960g-Only_W0QQitemZ220431132829QQcmdZViewItemQQptZRoad_Bikes?hash=item3352b8289d&_trksid=p3286.c0.m14&_trkparms=65%3A12|66%3A2|39%3A1|72%3A1205|293%3A1|294%3A50


The ad says it is from Scott, there is no frame like that on Scott's website. Also, scott makes a size 56 (which I am looking for) and the ebay frame lists L as 54 and XL as 57. I dont know there are too many unknowns right not to commit to this.


----------



## HeluvaSkier

tron said:


> The sizing is driving me crazy. I was looking at this frame...
> 
> https://cgi.ebay.com/New-Hasa-Full-Carbon-Road-bike-Frame-960g-Only_W0QQitemZ220431132829QQcmdZViewItemQQptZRoad_Bikes?hash=item3352b8289d&_trksid=p3286.c0.m14&_trkparms=65%3A12|66%3A2|39%3A1|72%3A1205|293%3A1|294%3A50
> 
> 
> The ad says it is from Scott, there is no frame like that on Scott's website. Also, scott makes a size 56 (which I am looking for) and the ebay frame lists L as 54 and XL as 57. I dont know there are too many unknowns right not to commit to this.


Note, the seller says that the frame is from the OEM manufacturer of Scott - meaning the same factory that makes Scott frames. That does not mean there is any connection between this frame and anything that Scott has the manufacturer that they contract with build for them. 

I believe that all of these frames are coming from the Martec factory, which builds frames for many manufacturers - not just Scott. 

FWIW, they are great frames from what I can tell. I just built up a second one for someone (Campy Centaur & Centaur Carbon mix): 









I took it for a quick 20 mile ride last night to dial-in the drive train and the ride of the Kuota-style frame is really impressive. It seems to have a more laid-back geometry compared to what I'm used to, but it is a very comfortable and capable bike. My initial impressions of the first bike I built were that it had a good stiff fork, but after really hauling on the Kuota when sprinting I think the fork could be beefier for better handling, but that is really nit-picking.


----------



## tron

Can you let me know your sizing and what you ended up purchasing? Also what size frame would you normally purchase?


----------



## HeluvaSkier

tron said:


> Can you let me know your sizing and what you ended up purchasing? Also what size frame would you normally purchase?


I went with standard sizing actually. The bike pictured is a 54cm frame and I built a 52cm frame for my girlfriend a few months ago. The reach seems to be about what they claim it to be (somewhere the drawings of the frame are floating around this site). I usually ride a 54cm (or so) frame and the 54 that I just built up fits me perfectly. I actually think if it were my bike I would go with a 110mm stem and no spacers in addition to the headset that the seller provided with the frame. Compared to my other bikes the head tube feels tall, plus the guy who I built this one for prefers a very high head tube. Mind-you, this is all for the Kuota-style frame - how much of my experience transfers over to the frame you are looking at is purely speculation - however if you're able to find the frame geometries anywhere, I would trust them to be accurate enough to allow you to purchase the correct size.


----------



## josephjcole

*kredo spindle length?*

I called my LBS today to get together all the parts I need to move everything over from my old bike to the kredo frame. The mechanic wanted to know what the spindle length was for the bottom bracket. I told him the bottom bracket was 68mm wide with English threads. He told me he still needed to know the spindle length. How does one go about figuring this out? I have Richety WCS compact cranks, but I don't know where to go from there.
thanks in advance.
Joe


----------



## raymonda

Just finished building this up for a friend. Final weight was 16.93lbs. The build went together fairly well. Although, I had to straighten the rear hanger and align the front fork. Not such a big deal in my book.

The frame looked great and everything weighed as claimed.

My friend was on a budget and wanted the best he could get at a reasonable price. As pictured he spent $1,800. Everything was new accept the wheels, which were bought used but almost new. They had 200 miles on them.

Post, handlebars and cages came with the frame and fork. The rest is a mixture of Campy Centaur, Chorus and Record.

Centaur cranks, cassette and F/R deraileurs
Chorus Shifters, headset and and brakes
Record Chain
Campy seat post clamp

The fit is set up for him. He likes his bars a bit higher than normal and makes for more enjoyable riding for him.


----------



## raymonda

raymonda said:


> Just finished building this up for a friend. Final weight was 16.93lbs. The build went together fairly well. Although, I had to straighten the rear hanger and align the front fork. Not such a big deal in my book.
> 
> The frame looked great and everything weighed as claimed.
> 
> My friend was on a budget and wanted the best he could get at a reasonable price. As pictured he spent $1,800. Everything was new accept the wheels, which were bought used but almost new. They had 200 miles on them.
> 
> Post, handlebars and cages came with the frame and fork. The rest is a mixture of Campy Centaur, Chorus and Record.
> 
> Centaur cranks, cassette and F/R deraileurs
> Chorus Shifters, headset and and brakes
> Record Chain
> Campy seat post clamp
> 
> The fit is set up for him. He likes his bars a bit higher than normal and makes for more enjoyable riding for him.


bump, bump


----------



## Macilvennon

Hi,

I have just got one of the Kuota Kredo frames which I am very impressed with.

I have got some vinyl decals for the frame and was wondering if I should apply some kind of lacquer over the decals when they are applied to the frame.

I am afraid the lacquer may damage the frame. Has anyone experience of this?

Regards, 
BK.


----------



## raymonda

Vinyl decals are durable and don't require a clear coat. You can have one applied if you wish but if you tire of them you won't be able to remove them.


----------



## Macilvennon

Thanks for your reply raymonda.

Nice bike mate. What size of frame is it? I have just bought exactly the same frame (50cm), but am still waiting for a few parts to arrive before I can build it up. I'm using a 105, Ultegra, Dura-Ace mix of components. My Shimano R550 wheels are quite heavy at about 1850g. What weight are your american classics?

The seat post which came with the frame is also a bit bulky and I am thinking about cutting a few cm off. Did you cut any off your seat post?

What problems did you have with your forks and rear hanger? Would be interesting to hear as I have not got that far yet, but I hope my frame is ok. 

I Should get my Specialized - Kuota Kredo frame built this week and will post a few pics.

Regards,
BK.


----------



## raymonda

This was the 54 cm size.

Seat post is bulky and heavy @ 300grams uncut.

Rear hanger was not in alignment. I a Park hanger tool so it was a 5 minute job.

The front fork was a bit off, around 1-2 mil., so, I filed down the left side and it was good to go.

Everything else was excellent and as far as frame prep goes, this was fairly minimal work.

The craftmanship on the Kredo frame is excellent, so I think you will be really happy.

Enjoy.


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## robpar

Do not use lacquer; use automotive paint clear coat. You can get at any auto repair shop


----------



## JVHB

Allright I did it: Just ordered (and paid) a "Kredo OEM" frame from itsall4sports!
Around 700 usd altogether with fork, Hylix seatpost and shipping to Denmark.

Keeping my fingers crossed it gets here soon, and in perfect shape.
Hope to have it ready for a 100 mile race on July 31st, but it will be tight I think...

Will post pics and impressions in a few weeks


----------



## athletic91

JVHB said:


> Allright I did it: Just ordered (and paid) a "Kredo OEM" frame from itsall4sports!
> Around 700 usd altogether with fork, Hylix seatpost and shipping to Denmark.
> 
> Keeping my fingers crossed it gets here soon, and in perfect shape.
> Hope to have it ready for a 100 mile race on July 31st, but it will be tight I think...
> 
> Will post pics and impressions in a few weeks


you will definately get ur frameset in a weeks time. question is how long you will take to built it up. and whether the frame has any problems,like the stops riverted the wrong way


----------



## JVHB

Hope u are right about the 1 week delivery!

I only plan to take about 3 hours to build it up, if all goes well  
Just need to swap over the components from my Litespeed.

- but things rarely do go well when you need them to do they....


----------



## josephjcole

Well, I've been riding my Kredo style frame for several days now and I just thought I would post a quick review.
The Kredo is replacing my Bianchi San Lorenzo, which has been a great bike for me. It was quite light, and very stiff/responsive. Unfortunately the top tube started to crack around a dent that I had put in it from a wreck a couple years back.
I got the frame from bicycle999, contacted him through ebay, and ended up buying the frame, headset, water bottle cages, and seatpost clamp from him outside of ebay for a significant savings (360 shipped). Shipping was quite fast. The box arrived a little beat up, but the bike looked fine. My LBS switched the components, and noticed the rear derauiller hanger was quite bent, probably from shipping. He straightened it but suggested I look into getting a new one. I contacted bicycle999 and he's sent off two new ones right away (not sure that I need two, but...)
I moved everything over from the Bianchi to the Kredo style frame, including the fork (after sanding off the Bianchi decal). I guess the best thing I can say about it after riding it for the week is that it feel quite similar to my Bianchi. No flex anywhere that I've noticed. The only main difference between the two frames is that the Kredo does seem to take the edge off the some of the larger bumps on the road. Certainly not a deal breaker, as I'm sure switching from 23mm tires to 25mm tires would make a much bigger difference if comfort was a priority. Anyways, I'm pretty pleased to have found a frame for so cheap that compares well to my trusted Bianchi.
I hate to admit it, but I think given the choice I would take the Kredo frame over the Bianchi. The reason (begin snickering here) all black, no decals, it just looks faster.
Sorry no pics, my camera died on me last week.
Joe


----------



## Salsa_Lover

You are comparing an Alloy bike to a full carbon bike and saying the carbon one feels worse on the bumps ?

That would be quite a dealbreaker for me.

The alloy bikes feel much harsher in comparison to any of the full carbon road bikes I have riden ( included Treks, Ridleys and Bianchis) . 

Simply no point on comparison. And believe me, my [email protected]@ is a good testing device for that.


----------



## josephjcole

Salsa_Lover said:


> You are comparing an Alloy bike to a full carbon bike and saying the carbon one feels worse on the bumps ?



Maybe I wasn't clear before. The new carbon Kredo copy is slightly smoother than the Bianchi was. I do think though that for an alloy bike the Scandium Bianchi is (was:cryin: ) fairly smooth. But to clarify the Kredo does feel like it takes some of the edge off of the larger bumps and cracks in the road in comparison to the the Bianchi.


----------



## Salsa_Lover

You're right.

Scandium is said to be smother than alu.

I've never riden one, but I do have a touring bike on Alu 7005 and built me a rain bike Felt Z70 ( also Alu 7005) that are noticiably harsher than the carbon ones.

I can stand the touring bike with a suspension seatpost, the Felt is for sale.


----------



## Rob Stephenson

Hi,

Hope someone can help. I have just received my Kredo frame via Ebay, frame all seems perfect except there is an indentation in the downtube about 1" below where the front mech clamp goes (chainset side). I cannot see any reason for this indent and wonder if it is a defect. Does anyone have one of these frames who can check?
Thanks


----------



## josephjcole

*Enjoy the ride*



Rob Stephenson said:


> Hi,
> 
> Hope someone can help. I have just received my Kredo frame via Ebay, frame all seems perfect except there is an indentation in the downtube about 1" below where the front mech clamp goes (chainset side). I cannot see any reason for this indent and wonder if it is a defect. Does anyone have one of these frames who can check?
> Thanks



I have to admit I read your post, and my first thought was ,"aw geez, poor guy". But I took a look at my bike, and what do you know. A small vertical indention slightly below my front mech! Who knew? I guess I'm not very observant. Enjoy the bike.
Joe


----------



## atpjunkie

*all these threads tend to show me*

that if a Chinese Mfr is selling $400 F and f CF road bikes and making a profit, the mark up on one from a Bike company @ $2500 or so is frigging ridiculous


----------



## Rob Stephenson

Hi Joe,

Thanks for the reply, I have since found out that it is where the spring on the front mech locates when you change to the inner ring. I just hope this indent is OK for a compact set-up as I've just bought a new 7900 Dura Ace compact groupset. Maybe someone can confirm?

Thanks again.

Rob


----------



## raymonda

Rob Stephenson said:


> Hi,
> 
> Hope someone can help. I have just received my Kredo frame via Ebay, frame all seems perfect except there is an indentation in the downtube about 1" below where the front mech clamp goes (chainset side). I cannot see any reason for this indent and wonder if it is a defect. Does anyone have one of these frames who can check?
> Thanks


Do you mean seat tube? If so, that is where the FD clamp goes and is put there to better distribute stress on the tube and to prevent crushing the tube.


----------



## Rob Stephenson

Sorry, I did mean the seat tube but it is 1" below the clamp. Thanks


----------



## josephjcole

Rob Stephenson said:


> Hi Joe,
> 
> Thanks for the reply, I have since found out that it is where the spring on the front mech locates when you change to the inner ring. I just hope this indent is OK for a compact set-up as I've just bought a new 7900 Dura Ace compact groupset. Maybe someone can confirm?
> 
> Thanks again.
> 
> Rob


I believe any frame will be fine with double, triple, or compact. Your crank set up is not determined by what frame you have. I have a compact on my Kredo copy though if that helps...
Joe


----------



## raymonda

Rob Stephenson said:


> Sorry, I did mean the seat tube but it is 1" below the clamp. Thanks


Post a picture please.


----------



## Rob Stephenson

*photo*

I know what the indent is for but here is the photo anyway. Thanks, Rob

View attachment 171904


----------



## Rob Stephenson

Hi Joe,

Thanks for the reply, looking forward to building up the frame. Have to admit the quality is far better than I expected. Weight of the frame is slightly more than quoted (1103grams for the 50cm) and the forks are 395grams uncut. Not sure whether to get some decals for it or leave it plain.

Thanks


----------



## Applesauce

Rob Stephenson said:


> I know what the indent is for but here is the photo anyway. Thanks, Rob


It's so your seat-tube will clear a triple front derailleur. Nothing to worry about.


----------



## dsx724

atpjunkie said:


> that if a Chinese Mfr is selling $400 F and f CF road bikes and making a profit, the mark up on one from a Bike company @ $2500 or so is frigging ridiculous


It keeps the bike companies and bike shops afloat. They have so much unsold inventory every year that it adds up. Manufactures like a stable channel to keep their factories operating. Don't worry, CF frames won't cost much more than aluminum frames soon. My cousins in China would gladly build the casts for the frames for pennies compared to their american counterparts (you end up paying for basically just the materials). Good custom US frames begin at $3000 because there's so little demand for bikes in that price category.


----------



## Macilvennon

Hi,
I have recently built one of the Kuota Kredo OEM frames. I have found the build quality and overall appearance to be excellent. For a 50cm frame it weighs in at 1100 grams.

The frame rides really well apart from one thing......when riding on a bumpy road there is alot of rattling. It seems to be coming from the bottom bracket and front end of the bike, but I cannot pin point exactly what is causing it.

I have replaced the bottom bracket which has had no affect. All my previous bikes have not rattled like this, and it is really driving me mad.

If anyone can suggest what might be causing this please leave a reply.


----------



## raymonda

Macilvennon said:


> Hi,
> I have recently built one of the Kuota Kredo OEM frames. I have found the build quality and overall appearance to be excellent. For a 50cm frame it weighs in at 1100 grams.
> 
> The frame rides really well apart from one thing......when riding on a bumpy road there is alot of rattling. It seems to be coming from the bottom bracket and front end of the bike, but I cannot pin point exactly what is causing it.
> 
> I have replaced the bottom bracket which has had no affect. All my previous bikes have not rattled like this, and it is really driving me mad.
> 
> If anyone can suggest what might be causing this please leave a reply.


Check to see if it is chain slap or cables hitting the carbon tubes.


----------



## stevesbike

check to make sure bottle cages are tight and try it without a bottle in - sometimes there's some play in there that sounds like it's coming from a BB


----------



## Macilvennon

*Cable Rattle*



raymonda said:


> Check to see if it is chain slap or cables hitting the carbon tubes.


I think it maybe the cables hitting the carbon frame. I have ordered a new set of better quality cables. Any idea what else I can do to stop the cables rattling?

Thanks,
Bobby.


----------



## robpar

Macilvennon said:


> Hi,
> I have recently built one of the Kuota Kredo OEM frames. I have found the build quality and overall appearance to be excellent. For a 50cm frame it weighs in at 1100 grams.
> 
> The frame rides really well apart from one thing......when riding on a bumpy road there is alot of rattling. It seems to be coming from the bottom bracket and front end of the bike, but I cannot pin point exactly what is causing it.
> 
> I have replaced the bottom bracket which has had no affect. All my previous bikes have not rattled like this, and it is really driving me mad.
> 
> If anyone can suggest what might be causing this please leave a reply.


I had a similar problem. The frame is rather noisy especially when FD shifts. I think it's because of the oversize tubes. One thing I did was to trim any excess cable so that there is no rubbing of cables against the frame. It helped a lot. Then i realized: it's the seat post rubbing inside the seat tube! I cut few inches off and viola! no more noise


----------



## Ryan Keefe

*Has anyone tried the larger size frames?*

I've been reading this thread and others on RBR regarding these frames. I am very interested and plan to buy one to hang Sram Red on it. Question: has anyone seen feedback on the larger sizes of these models? I'm 6'3" and need an effective TT of ~ 59/60 with a ~ 190mm HT. Any help / feedback is greatly appreciated!


----------



## Macilvennon

robpar said:


> I had a similar problem. The frame is rather noisy especially when FD shifts. I think it's because of the oversize tubes. One thing I did was to trim any excess cable so that there is no rubbing of cables against the frame. It helped a lot. Then i realized: it's the seat post rubbing inside the seat tube! I cut few inches off and viola! no more noise


Hi, thanks for your reply. I have already cut off about 2 inches from the seatpost. I am going to change the outer cables....I really hope this works cause it is a really nice frame to ride were it not for the noise.

Bobby.


----------



## raymonda

Macilvennon said:


> I think it maybe the cables hitting the carbon frame. I have ordered a new set of better quality cables. Any idea what else I can do to stop the cables rattling?
> 
> Thanks,
> Bobby.


Cables-Use cable donuts
Cable housing-Find the contact point and wrap "rubber" electrical tape around the cable house area. Make sure is is rubber electrical tape and not plastic. It can be purchased at Home Depot.

Also, make sure you cable tension for the FD has the correct tension. If it is too loose it will slap the tubes.


----------



## learn2ride

Has anyone built one of these ebay frames? 

(http://cgi.ebay.com/Hylix-Seatpost-...W0QQitemZ390064876210QQcmdZViewItemQQptZRoad_ Bikes?hash=item5ad1adaab2&_trksid=p3286.c0.m14&_trkparms=65%3A12|66%3A2|39%3A1|72%3A1205|293%3A1| 294%3A50)

It is yet another iteration of the cheap no-name frames from the east but from a new seller (anybaby8088). Does anyone know what happened to itsall4sports?

Ric


----------



## No-Name

you can see quality Chinese work in this photo 
http://photofile.ru/users/romkafromru/95273332/103738223/
You read only English? I can give to you link to blog man ho bay this frame. 
Or read in translate from Google :-D


----------



## seemann

*itsall4sports*

Hey Ric,

I have not asked him about this directly, but I think he got in trouble with the powers-that-be for doing "outside of Ebay" transactions to save on the transaction fees. But I think he's still got frames to sell. My transaction with him was very smooth. I told him what I wanted. We settled on a price. He sent me an invoice. I paid him via PayPal. He sent me a tracking number. And six days later, the Postal Service plopped the frame onto my front porch. (It's now at the LBS for prepping.) Heck, Performance doesn't deliver that quick, and they're in NC, not China. Anyway, I have an email address for him. It was working as of last week. Here it is: Josh Liu <[email protected]>


----------



## learn2ride

Sorry the address I posted earlier didn't appear to come through correctly. I am keen to find out if anyone has built up one of these frames:

http://cgi.ebay.com/CARBON-FIBER-MO...ryZ98084QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

They are a bit more expensive than all the other 'ebay carbon' frames but appear to come with a two year warantee. I would be keen to hear anyone's opinion on the frame.

Thanks seemann, could you reposrt that email address. It didn't apear to come through. 

Ric


----------



## Macilvennon

learn2ride said:


> Sorry the address I posted earlier didn't appear to come through correctly. I am keen to find out if anyone has built up one of these frames:
> 
> http://cgi.ebay.com/CARBON-FIBER-MO...ryZ98084QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem
> 
> They are a bit more expensive than all the other 'ebay carbon' frames but appear to come with a two year warantee. I would be keen to hear anyone's opinion on the frame.
> 
> Thanks seemann, could you reposrt that email address. It didn't apear to come through.
> 
> Ric


Hi Ric, 
The Frame in question is an OEM Raleigh Carbon frame with a set of wavey carbon forks which have been offered with a few different frames on ebay. Compared with other carbon frames on e-bay it weighs in a little on the heavy side.

Have a look at this web page
http://forum.velonews.com/read.php?f=2&i=354208&t=354166

I have recently bought and built up the Kuota Kredo frame shown on the forum link above from a seller named bicycle_999. The frame was delivered in 6 days and was immaculate and after a few tweaks with the external cables (Which rattled) rides like a dream.

I would recommend that you go with an established seller of carbon frames on ebay, rather than a new seller with very little feedback.

P.S. - If you are going to buy a frame from seller bicycle_999, send them a message first asking if they have a headset to fit the frame and they will give you one for free.

Good Luck.

BK.


----------



## seemann

Here it is: [email protected]

The "99" makes me wonder whether "bicycle99" isn't just another alias. 

Who knows!?


----------



## learn2ride

BK, thanks for the feedback! Muchos helpful.


----------



## Rob Stephenson

*Kuota Decals*

Does anyone know if it is possible to obtain some Kuota decals for my new Ebay Kredo. Theres just a bit too much carbon showing for my liking and I would like to break it up a little.

Thanks

Rob


----------



## CleavesF

Rob Stephenson said:


> Does anyone know if it is possible to obtain some Kuota decals for my new Ebay Kredo. Theres just a bit too much carbon showing for my liking and I would like to break it up a little.
> 
> Thanks
> 
> Rob


decals cost 2000 bucks more.


----------



## Macilvennon

Rob Stephenson said:


> Does anyone know if it is possible to obtain some Kuota decals for my new Ebay Kredo. Theres just a bit too much carbon showing for my liking and I would like to break it up a little.
> 
> Thanks
> 
> Rob


Hi Rob,

I have recently built up a Kuota Kredo frame I got from e-bay (I will try and get some pic's up). I put white Specialized decals on and they were very easy to apply and look really well. I bought 2 sets of the decals below:
http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Specialized-B...5633f7246c&_trksid=p3286.c0.m14#ht_1644wt_732

I tried to get Kuota decals but could not find them anywhere.

Good Luck.

BK.


----------



## matt N

*so out of curiousity*

... i've seen a lot of the nice custom builds and paintjobs on these frames, but was wondering if any of you guys who have ridden more than a thousand miles (or so) on these frames could comment on how they are holding up?

i guess id just like to know how they are fairing in the long run.


----------



## Dr. Placebo

Macilvennon said:


> Hi Rob,
> 
> I have recently built up a Kuota Kredo frame I got from e-bay (I will try and get some pic's up). I put white Specialized decals on and they were very easy to apply and look really well. I bought 2 sets of the decals below:
> http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Specialized-B...5633f7246c&_trksid=p3286.c0.m14#ht_1644wt_732
> 
> I tried to get Kuota decals but could not find them anywhere.
> 
> Good Luck.
> 
> BK.


LOL. Is that to freak out all the local enthusiasts in to thinking they've been kept out of the know of a new model?


----------



## HeluvaSkier

matt N said:


> ... i've seen a lot of the nice custom builds and paintjobs on these frames, but was wondering if any of you guys who have ridden more than a thousand miles (or so) on these frames could comment on how they are holding up?
> 
> i guess id just like to know how they are fairing in the long run.


The one I built for my gf with full Campy Veloce is riding just as good as the first day on the road. So far there are no issues. It's a very good bike on a budget.


----------



## raymonda

I've got around 2200 on mine and no problems.


----------



## Macilvennon

*My E-Bay / Kuota Kredo / Specialized Build !*

Hi,
This forum has helped me take the plunge and buy one of the Kuota Kredo OEM frames from e-bay (Seller: bicycle_999), so I thought I'd let you know how I have got on and show some pictures of the completed build.

The bike weighs in at about 17.5 pounds and is a dream to ride. I have covered about 400 miles on this bike and it provides a really comfortable ride, flies up the hills and is stiff as a board for those important sprints. Quite honestly I really could not ask for better.

I had a few problems with the outer cables rattling against the frame. Initially I had put on cheaper white cables, however when I changed the cables to better quality Shimano ones this completely fixed the problem.

I intend to upgrade to a carbon chainset and Zipp 303 wheels within the next few weeks which will bring the weight down to below 17 pounds. 

Thanks to everyone who has contributed to this post and helped me along the way.

BK.


----------



## KMan

*??*

Kind of like driving around a Buick with a Lexis emblem glued to the front??
It's not a Specialized so why put Specialized stickers on it?? To each it's own, but I could never figure out why people do this unless there are sponsorship conflicts.

Michael





Macilvennon said:


> Hi,
> This forum has helped me take the plunge and buy one of the Kuota Kredo OEM frames from e-bay (Seller: bicycle_999), so I thought I'd let you know how I have got on and show some pictures of the completed build.
> 
> The bike weighs in at about 17.5 pounds and is a dream to ride. I have covered about 400 miles on this bike and it provides a really comfortable ride, flies up the hills and is stiff as a board for those important sprints. Quite honestly I really could not ask for better.
> 
> I had a few problems with the outer cables rattling against the frame. Initially I had put on cheaper white cables, however when I changed the cables to better quality Shimano ones this completely fixed the problem.
> 
> I intend to upgrade to a carbon chainset and Zipp 303 wheels within the next few weeks which will bring the weight down to below 17 pounds.
> 
> Thanks to everyone who has contributed to this post and helped me along the way.
> 
> BK.


----------



## Macilvennon

KMan said:


> Kind of like driving around a Buick with a Lexis emblem glued to the front??
> It's not a Specialized so why put Specialized stickers on it?? To each it's own, but I could never figure out why people do this unless there are sponsorship conflicts.
> 
> Michael


Hi Michael,

There are 2 reasons why I put Specialized decals on:
- I could not get Kuota decals anywhere,
- I like Specialized as a brand and was not about to spend stupid money on a Specialized frame.

Kuota Kredo and Specialized Tarmac frames retail for about the same price. Having test rode a Tarmac bike I can say that there is very little difference in ride quality......don't forget that Floyd Landis and the 'OUCH' Pro team used the Kuota Kredo frame a few years back. See this link:

http://www.bikeradar.com/gear/article/pro-bike-floyd-landis-ouch-kuota-kredo-ultra-20424


BK.


----------



## CleavesF

Dude, if these self "rebrands" keep going on, you'll soon see replacement stickers cost 100 dollars soon enough. 

Hell, think even further, soon they might not even be available as user replaceable parts.


----------



## KMan

*Exactly*

Your reference to Landis is exactly what I mentioned - sponsorship conflicts. There are a lot of other PRO's that relable gear due to csponsorship conflicts - understandable. Not flamming you, it's just something I've never understood why people do this. If you like the name brand so much, buy one of their bikes, if you think they are overprices - why advertise for them ???

....and glad you edited out the other commment, but just to answer it, I know enough about bikes to be able to build and do everything I need myself without wrenching from a LBS. I've been building my own bikes for as long as I can remember (including wheels if I have the time). Here are a few of the bikes I have built and maintained over the years:

Current bikes

























Previous Bikes

























































































Macilvennon said:


> Hi Michael,
> 
> There are 2 reasons why I put Specialized decals on:
> - I could not get Kuota decals anywhere,
> - I like Specialized as a brand and was not about to spend stupid money on a Specialized frame.
> 
> Kuota Kredo and Specialized Tarmac frames retail for about the same price. Having test rode a Tarmac bike I can say that there is very little difference in ride quality......don't forget that Floyd Landis and the 'OUCH' Pro team used the Kuota Kredo frame a few years back. See this link:
> 
> https://www.bikeradar.com/gear/article/pro-bike-floyd-landis-ouch-kuota-kredo-ultra-20424
> 
> 
> BK.


----------



## Macilvennon

KMan said:


> Your reference to Landis is exactly what I mentioned - sponsorship conflicts. There are a lot of other PRO's that relable gear due to csponsorship conflicts - understandable. Not flamming you, it's just something I've never understood why people do this. If you like the name brand so much, buy one of their bikes, if you think they are overprices - why advertise for them ???
> 
> ....and glad you edited out the other commment, but just to answer it, I know enough about bikes to be able to build and do everything I need myself without wrenching from a LBS. I've been building my own bikes for as long as I can remember (including wheels if I have the time). Here are a few of the bikes I have built and maintained over the years:
> 
> Hi Michael,
> 
> Thanks for your interesting array of bikes, some of which looked quite good.
> 
> I do not want to get caught up with the ethics of putting decals onto an un-matching frame. I think that my bike looks better with decals than without.
> 
> Overall, I am very happy with how it looks and performs, which is at the end of the day what really matters.
> 
> Thanks. BK.


----------



## binjuice

i bought this from ebay to, I didn't like the plain looking frame either, i thought my bike looked pretty good until i stuffed it into the tarmac! it has been a great ride! looking forward to getting back on it!


----------



## raymonda

I think it looks good with decals, however, I agree, I would have created my own brand rather than some other brand.

That being said, if you like it, the heck with what others think.


----------



## binjuice

hi raymonda

my hasa carbon forks failed on me i bought them from "itsall4sports" i got in touch with them so i could send them back and the return address was
Lane 561, NuJiangBei Road
Shanghai
China
i was reading one of your preivious posts and thought you might be interested!


----------



## dsx724

binjuice said:


> hi raymonda
> 
> my hasa carbon forks failed on me i bought them from "itsall4sports" i got in touch with them so i could send them back and the return address was
> Lane 561, NuJiangBei Road
> Shanghai
> China
> i was reading one of your preivious posts and thought you might be interested!


Do you have a picture of this? I want to see how the fork failed.


----------



## binjuice

check out my post on this thread http://forums.roadbikereview.com/showthread.php?t=146183&goto=newpost there is a picture there!


----------



## raymonda

binjuice said:


> hi raymonda
> 
> my hasa carbon forks failed on me i bought them from "itsall4sports" i got in touch with them so i could send them back and the return address was
> Lane 561, NuJiangBei Road
> Shanghai
> China
> i was reading one of your preivious posts and thought you might be interested!


Thanks for the info.


----------



## Olafstoutjesdijk

:thumbsup: Hello, i bought a carbon ebay frame and build it up with sram rival and mavic cosmic carbone. Bike looks stunning, is light: 7,4 kg, and stiff, although not as stiff in the bracket as my dad's Pinarello F4:13. The ride is very comfortable and the geometry seems to be good. I think these frames are a bargain and as good as any branded carbon frame.
For photos go to
http://olafstoutjesdijk.webs.com/apps/photos/photo?photoid=48167462


----------



## Macilvennon

Hi Olafstoutjesdijk,

Nice bike. The yellow works well. What size frame is yours?

BK


----------



## lockwood1

Olafstoutjesdijk said:


> :thumbsup: Hello, i bought a carbon ebay frame and build it up with sram rival and mavic cosmic carbone. Bike looks stunning, is light: 7,4 kg, and stiff, although not as stiff in the bracket as my dad's Pinarello F4:13. The ride is very comfortable and the geometry seems to be good. I think these frames are a bargain and as good as any branded carbon frame.
> For photos go to
> http://olafstoutjesdijk.webs.com/apps/photos/photo?photoid=48167462


Hi Olafstoutjesdijk 
Those Mavic wheels gave the bike a very unique look and the yellow color suit it very nicely. Awesome built congrats.Enjoy it :thumbsup:


----------



## Le Wrench

KMan said:


> Kind of like driving around a Buick with a Lexis emblem glued to the front??
> It's not a Specialized so why put Specialized stickers on it?? To each it's own, but I could never figure out why people do this unless there are sponsorship conflicts.
> 
> Michael


To each his own I suppose. 

If I had one of these frames, I'd put something fun on it like "I ❤ Cougars"


----------



## Olafstoutjesdijk

Macilvennon said:


> Hi Olafstoutjesdijk,
> 
> Nice bike. The yellow works well. What size frame is yours?
> 
> BK


Thank you,t:thumbsup: he frame is a 56 cm center top model.


----------



## mtkagan

so im in the market for one of these oem carbon frames. between the sellers bicycle_999 and itsall4sports, which would you recommend? I was reading that itsall4sports has a 2 year warranty, do they actually honor it? any differences in build quality between the two sellers for the kredo frame ( the one i am interested in)? any info would be great, thanks.


----------



## lalahsghost

mtkagan said:


> so im in the market for one of these oem carbon frames. between the sellers bicycle_999 and itsall4sports, which would you recommend? I was reading that itsall4sports has a 2 year warranty, do they actually honor it? any differences in build quality between the two sellers for the kredo frame ( the one i am interested in)? any info would be great, thanks.


The riveted derailleur clamp on mine busted off on an odd shift after I had the bike for... eight months or so. I had to pay the shipping back to them ($50?), but I got a brand new frame about four weeks after I shipped it to them. The wait time was kind of meh, but to think that they waited until they received my frame, then the shipping time for their frame to get to me... it was just logistics and not so much anything else. It was still a lonely month. After this the replacement frame sounded like there was sand in the frame. They said it was probably epoxied newspaper or broken resin in the seatstays (where the noise was) and sent me another frame w/o me having to ship the one that sounds like a maraca back. I rode this one until I crashed in a local crit and the aluminum insert in the seat tube popped out with my seatpost/saddle. That one was my fault so I didn't even try to get a warranty on it.

A second frame I bought from itsall4sports had a cable housing mount installed backwards. I shipped the frame to them two months ago and have not gotten a frame back. Shipping said the faulty frame was received and I sent them an email asking about if they shipped a frame out. They asked me about the shipping info, and I gave them a copy of the USPS email... it and its been a bit frustrating with this one. I'm thinking about doing a chargeback with my visa if I don't hear anything soon. I mean a college kid short on $500.... It sucks. (In total, I've had my hands on four frames from Itsall4sports, a pair of leg covers, and seatpost clamp)


----------



## Olafstoutjesdijk

mtkagan said:


> so im in the market for one of these oem carbon frames. between the sellers bicycle_999 and itsall4sports, which would you recommend? I was reading that itsall4sports has a 2 year warranty, do they actually honor it? any differences in build quality between the two sellers for the kredo frame ( the one i am interested in)? any info would be great, thanks.


Hi, i got my frame from maniac_bicycle, wich sels the same frames and parts as bicycle_999. Build quality of my frame seems great, cant imagine those of itsall4sports are better. Though i heard that the differences between the frames are the pads for the weels and the rd hanger. Mine are alu, i heard the 'american' has carbon dropouts. Further differences can be the lay up of the carbon, but you cant see that with the naked eye. My frame is riding good and i am very pleased with it. As concerns return policy, if mi frame is broken i can always contact my seller, wich, i know for sure and have yet experienced, treats his customers well. So, i'd buy from bicycle_999 or Maniac_bicycle, cause they are a lot cheaper compared to itsall4sports, and i guess there frames and components are equal quality.
Good luck:thumbsup:


----------



## erickras

I haven't ridden in almost 10 years but the itch has certainly been growing. So logically I went to several LBSs and began looking around at the newest gear. My biggest surprise was seeing that Campy and Shimano have a competitor in SRAM and that the price of carbon has come down so much. I rode several rigs of various materials but most were too big (I'm 5'7" with a 31" inseam and short torso and need a 52 cm with a shorter top tube). The ride I liked most was the Scott CR1 but was not impressed with the components and it was a 54.

After shopping around online and then checking ebay I realized the best option for me was to build my own. Thanks to these forums I pulled the trigger on one of these carbon frames and have started hunting down accessories.

I originally had a $1500 budget but realize that was unrealistic considering I have absolutely no parts on hand so everything must be purchased. Here's' what I've got so far:

-ebay "Kuota Kredo" 52 frame, fork, seatpost, headset and cages for $450 shipped 
-from texascyclesport.com - SRAM Rival group, American Classic 420 wheelset (black)and Schwalbe Ultremo R tires for $1337 shipped


Any suggestions on a best bang for my buck saddle and pedals?


----------



## California L33

erickras said:


> Any suggestions on a best bang for my buck saddle and pedals?


I can only tell you what I like-

Saddle- Terry Fly or Fly Gel (a very personal item, YMMV). 

Pedals- Speedplay Frogs (a mountain pedal, but simple, rugged, lots of float, no centering springs).


----------



## tron

On a whim I purchased a Nashbar "race" saddle over a year ago. It is pretty lightweight and I liked it so much I bought another for a cross bike. They changed the name to R2 since then but it looks to be the same seat. The price fluxuates dramatically depending on what sale is going on. I think I got it for 12 dollars. In that vein, I think Nashbar and Performance have some pedals that are Look clones. I know nothing about them but it could be something to look into to keep costs down.


----------



## Le Wrench

Wow, that post with all the bike photos is one of the worst cases of "Mine is bigger than your's" syndrome I've seen in these forums. 








> Current bikes
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Previous Bikes


----------



## raptor3x

erickras said:


> I haven't ridden in almost 10 years but the itch has certainly been growing. So logically I went to several LBSs and began looking around at the newest gear. My biggest surprise was seeing that Campy and Shimano have a competitor in SRAM and that the price of carbon has come down so much. I rode several rigs of various materials but most were too big (I'm 5'7" with a 31" inseam and short torso and need a 52 cm with a shorter top tube). The ride I liked most was the Scott CR1 but was not impressed with the components and it was a 54.
> 
> After shopping around online and then checking ebay I realized the best option for me was to build my own. Thanks to these forums I pulled the trigger on one of these carbon frames and have started hunting down accessories.
> 
> I originally had a $1500 budget but realize that was unrealistic considering I have absolutely no parts on hand so everything must be purchased. Here's' what I've got so far:
> 
> -ebay "Kuota Kredo" 52 frame, fork, seatpost, headset and cages for $450 shipped
> -from texascyclesport.com - SRAM Rival group, American Classic 420 wheelset (black)and Schwalbe Ultremo R tires for $1337 shipped
> 
> 
> Any suggestions on a best bang for my buck saddle and pedals?


Unbeatable.

http://www.neuvationcycling.com/product150.html


----------



## Macilvennon

*Problem with Schwalbe Ultremo R tyres*

Hi erickras,

Firstly, I would like to make you aware of a problem with the Schwalbe Ultremo R tyres. Have a look here:

http://www.bikeradar.com/news/article/schwalbe-recalls-ultremo-r-tyres-21793

A number of my club mates have had these tyres spectacularly fail on them. At the start of a Sunday training run a few weeks ago one club mate had both tyres completely fail. At the start of the ride they were in perfect condition. After about 50 miles the rear tyre blew out, luckily enough on a climb. We got the tyre repaired with an internal tyre patch, only for the front to do the same a few miles up the road. My advice would be to take the tyres back and ask for a refund or exchange.

As for pedals, I would go for Look Keo Carbon pedals or, the normal Look Keo Sprint pedals. As for saddles I would recommend a San Marco Rolls saddle. It may not be the best looking saddle but is the most comfortable you can buy.

Good Luck.

BK.


----------



## lockwood1

Macilvennon said:


> Hi erickras,
> 
> Firstly, I would like to make you aware of a problem with the Schwalbe Ultremo R tyres. Have a look here:
> 
> http://www.bikeradar.com/news/article/schwalbe-recalls-ultremo-r-tyres-21793
> 
> A number of my club mates have had these tyres spectacularly fail on them. At the start of a Sunday training run a few weeks ago one club mate had both tyres completely fail. At the start of the ride they were in perfect condition. After about 50 miles the rear tyre blew out, luckily enough on a climb. We got the tyre repaired with an internal tyre patch, only for the front to do the same a few miles up the road. My advice would be to take the tyres back and ask for a refund or exchange.
> 
> As for pedals, I would go for Look Keo Carbon pedals or, the normal Look Keo Sprint pedals. As for saddles I would recommend a San Marco Rolls saddle. It may not be the best looking saddle but is the most comfortable you can buy.
> 
> Good Luck.
> 
> BK.



Yeahp! I heard about the recall too bad because I was looking at those tires in red color but when I saw the recall I decided not ot go with them:mad2: it would be like a box full of surprises.


----------



## dhtucker4

tron said:


> On a whim I purchased a Nashbar "race" saddle over a year ago. It is pretty lightweight and I liked it so much I bought another for a cross bike. They changed the name to R2 since then but it looks to be the same seat. The price fluxuates dramatically depending on what sale is going on. I think I got it for 12 dollars. In that vein, I think Nashbar and Performance have some pedals that are Look clones. I know nothing about them but it could be something to look into to keep costs down.


The Nashbar "race" saddle is built cheaply with no quality control... My right inner thigh was rubbing on the titanium rail, so I eyeballed it, and took the "race" saddle off - the right titanium rail was almost to the saddle shell and widened out, and the left rail was getting there.

I went with a San Marco Aspide (without the cutout) - it fit me like a glove, it sort of reminds me of the fit of a classic Flite - only somewhat lighter (by two ounces), with a thinner mid-saddle profile and a lot less padding. Now the classic Flite TransAm doesn't have that much padding, but that cutout on damp roads is a pain.

I think both Nashbar and Performance have rebadged Exustar pedals - the pedals are identical. They both are Keo-compatible.


----------



## erickras

Thanks for the responses, especially about the Schwalbe Ultremo Rs. I'll be removing them immediately!!

Super fast shipping on the frame (fork, etc.) from China. I ordered it on Sunday night and it arrived yesterday (Friday) morning. I'm in Florida. Everything else arrived later the same day. Unfortunately I requested the wrong size front derailleur clamp so I'll have to wait on the exchange:frown5:. 

So here's what I've got so far...









Nothing says love like tidy handlebars...


----------



## Rob81

arrived in 8 days for me too!
It's the not-similar-to-Kuota slooping frame

I need some advices:
1) what to use to clean BB threads?Ther's some coat/black painting.Outside there's no problem they are faced right.
2) any advices on how to mount the race crown fork without the use of special tools?
3) what to use to clean/sand the top and lower integrated toptube area?

My target is to build the best $/quality bike I ever had=budget is ~1800/1900$
So far it'll be mounted like this:
-frame 1150g+waved fork ala-Pinarello 380g uncut
-wheels Fulcrum 5
-groupset Sram Force 2009
-alloy bar and steam, probably Ritchey
-seatpost was included, quite heavy 300g and no seatback, but I'll try how it fits
-saddle is a Full Carbon San Marco Aspide, 125g......bought for 60$ instead of 300$ because of some little imperfections on the coat 
- pedals Shimano Ultegra 08 or DuraAce 06 (with no "extra" platform)


----------



## lockwood1

built your creation but don't forget to post the obligatory pics:thumbsup:


----------



## erickras

Rob81 said:


> arrived in 8 days for me too!
> It's the not-similar-to-Kuota slooping frame
> 
> I need some advices:
> 1) what to use to clean BB threads?Ther's some coat/black painting.Outside there's no problem they are faced right.
> 2) any advices on how to mount the race crown fork without the use of special tools?
> 3) what to use to clean/sand the top and lower integrated toptube area?
> 
> My target is to build the best $/quality bike I ever had=budget is ~1800/1900$
> So far it'll be mounted like this:
> -frame 1150g+waved fork ala-Pinarello 380g uncut
> -wheels Fulcrum 5
> -groupset Sram Force 2009
> -alloy bar and steam, probably Ritchey
> -seatpost was included, quite heavy 300g and no seatback, but I'll try how it fits
> -saddle is a Full Carbon San Marco Aspide, 125g......bought for 60$ instead of 300$ because of some little imperfections on the coat
> - pedals Shimano Ultegra 08 or DuraAce 06 (with no "extra" platform)



For the BB threads I used my finger nail, a damp paper towel and some canned air. Make sure you grease your threads and you'll have no problems.

I ordered the headset with the frame and had no trouble mounting the race to the fork by hand. If your having trouble with it attach some pics and we may be able to help.

I didn't need to do any sanding/filing to the integrated headset but I did use a damp paper towel here as well to clean it. As long as the bearings seat properly they'll be fine. Just make sure its clean of any dust or shavings.

Good luck with the build...pics are madatory:thumbsup:


----------



## Macilvennon

Hi,
I had a similar problem with the integrated headset. The headset would not properly fit onto the lower part of the fork due to resin which stopped it pushing right down onto the fork.

I basically filed away this excess resin on the fork a small bit at a time with a hand file until there was a tight fit. After I did this I had no problems at all.

BK.


----------



## tthome

erikras, did you wrap your handlebars both in the same direction? The pictures look a little funky or my eyes aren't working right today. If they're right, great...just trying to help a fellow ebay money saver out. If I'm wrong sorry...maybe mine are wrong.


----------



## erickras

tthome said:


> erikras, did you wrap your handlebars both in the same direction? The pictures look a little funky or my eyes aren't working right today. If they're right, great...just trying to help a fellow ebay money saver out. If I'm wrong sorry...maybe mine are wrong.


lol, I noticed that after I posted the pics as well. But I only noticed it from looking at the pic very recently:idea: I'll re-wrap and beg for forgiveness


----------



## tthome

I think those of us that have tried to build up a bike with minimal experience (that would be me) have done the same thing with the bar wrap. I had to reference one of my other bikes to make sure I was doing it right and even with it as a go by I still was second guessing what I was doing. I too have one of those Kuota Kredo clones...but I'm tricking it out bigtime and taking my time while doing it. I'll send a sneek peek of what I'm doing shortly, don't want to give away too much, but lets just say I can't afford to pay TREK for what I want. You'll understand what I mean when you see the picture.

update...sneak peek picture added...you can only imagine...











sneek peek.


----------



## EizonRoad

*Chinees carbon or american alu*

Hi, for first time bike builders like me, there are all sorts of instruction videos to be found by google'in, like this one: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fs7BY4wKHTM, for handle bar tape.

Anyway,
Just received my "Kredo" 54cm frame. I'm keen on SRAM, and intended to build up over the winter with Force group, appart from Red shifters, and red cassette 11-28. Wheels: Fulcrum Racing 3.

The bike I use at the moment is a Cannondale CAAD9, with 105 and Fulcrum Racing 3.

Having read here, I'm not shure any more. Should I proceed as planned, or is my alu frame better, and shoud be my number one, with Sram? The weight of the two frames are about the same. Any advice? :idea:


----------



## Rob81

I'll use my old bike as 2nd bike (trainers, winter, rain with fenders). it's a Roubaix


----------



## tthome

My Kuota Kredo Clone is done. Themed out to the LiveSTRONG. I couldn't afford the Trek Madone, but here is a link to my Blog and Also a Video about it.

https://timthome.blogspot.com/2009/08/livestrong-dedication-bike.html

<table style="width:194px;"><tr><td align="center" style="height:194px;backgroundhttps://picasaweb.google.com/s/c/transparent_album_background.gif<a href="https://picasaweb.google.com/tthome/CustomLiveSTRONGBikeBuild?feat=embedwebsite"><img src="https://lh5.ggpht.com/_G1G8cCJFgr4/Spw3XymiUJE/AAAAAAAAAHo/1c05oDwTbvk/s160-c/CustomLiveSTRONGBikeBuild.jpg" width="160" height="160" style="margin:1px 0 0 4px;"></a></td></tr><tr><td style="text-align:center;font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-size:11px"><a href="https://picasaweb.google.com/tthome/CustomLiveSTRONGBikeBuild?feat=embedwebsite" style="color:#4D4D4D;font-weight:bold;text-decoration:none;">Custom LiveSTRONG Bike Build</a></td></tr></table>


----------



## matt N

wow. great build!
checked out your blog, and im actually almost done with that book as well. just finished "yellow jersey." its really inspiring actually bc its one thing when you learn about him in the media but when you really learn all that he came from and how he arrived and dominated the sport, its crazy! granted its a book meant to inspire but you still cant make this stuff up. Its encouraged me even as ive been preparing for my next tri in spring. im geez if you can return and work hard after all that it makes a half marathon after a bike and swim seem so small (havent quit worked up to olympic distances yet) keep up the riding and dont let that bike just look pretty.

in anycase was wondering where you got the decals from? i've been looking all over and cant find them. i really do like the foundation and like the reminders about those who overcome adversity especially in something as small as cycling/triathlons (as compared to those who overcome near death in cancer). it sort of reminds you about the bigger picture i guess. so yea let me know where you got them.

and if you dont mind, just a word of caution about your spacing between the headset and stem... i've heard (not witnessed however) that placing the stem to far from the headtube can cause added stress on the steer tube bc of the lessened amount of force needed to apply a greater torque to the base of the steertube (due to a longer lever arm). in anycase you may just want to check every now and then for stress cracks on the steer tube, especially at the base. if its possible try removing some to the spacers and trimming the steer tube or you can just lower the stem placement and put the spacers on top of it. if its a matter of ride geometry for your body then possbily a riser stem? idk. take it for what its worth, just be sure to ride safe, especially since you have the blessing of having a family.

trainhard and liveSTRONG...


----------



## erickras

tthome, Great build. Thanks for sharing. I lost my mom in Jan after a 4 year battle with cancer. Please continue to update us.

This is my first carbon frame and though I'm still waiting for the exchange on my front derailleur I've wired everything up and put on a set of Speedplay Zero stainless pedals (I haven't corrected the tape yet ). I'm very impressed with the stiffness of the drive. It feels like the power goes straight to the ground yet the ride is softer than aluminum.

I'm also very curious about where you got the decals.


----------



## Rob Stephenson

*Fork steerer problem*

Hope someone can give me some advice with this one.....

Finished assembling my Ebay Kuota and have ridden it for the first time, I was amazed by the ride quality, feels so good when climbing and sprinting but not harsh.

After the test ride I proceeded to cut down the fork steerer tube which I had left long in case I needed to adjust my position. I cut the steerer down and noticed inside the steerer tube was a clear thin plastic film which peeled away from the inside of the tube. I am guessing this plastic is part of the moulding process but when I puuled it out I noticed that the inside of the steerer tube had marks in it where the plastic had 'bunched up' during the moulding process. These marks mean that the inside of the tube is not smooth and I am concerned that they may have weakened the tube.

I cannot take a pic of the marks as they are down inside the tube but they are shallow indents. The plastic I removed is just a thin film of polythene and not part of the fork. The tube is fine in the area where the fork bung goes, the area of concern is just above the top bearing.

Just wondered if I should be worried and if anyone else has noticed this.

Thanks.


----------



## raymonda

Rob Stephenson said:


> Hope someone can give me some advice with this one.....
> 
> Finished assembling my Ebay Kuota and have ridden it for the first time, I was amazed by the ride quality, feels so good when climbing and sprinting but not harsh.
> 
> After the test ride I proceeded to cut down the fork steerer tube which I had left long in case I needed to adjust my position. I cut the steerer down and noticed inside the steerer tube was a clear thin plastic film which peeled away from the inside of the tube. I am guessing this plastic is part of the moulding process but when I puuled it out I noticed that the inside of the steerer tube had marks in it where the plastic had 'bunched up' during the moulding process. These marks mean that the inside of the tube is not smooth and I am concerned that they may have weakened the tube.
> 
> I cannot take a pic of the marks as they are down inside the tube but they are shallow indents. The plastic I removed is just a thin film of polythene and not part of the fork. The tube is fine in the area where the fork bung goes, the area of concern is just above the top bearing.
> 
> Just wondered if I should be worried and if anyone else has noticed this.
> 
> Thanks.


Don't worry.


----------



## Macilvennon

Do not worry. This is just imperfections in the Carbon weaving process. My Kuota OEM frame has the same issues and still runs perfect.

BK


----------



## Toorqs

Got my frame yesterday, and the finish seems good. However there is a hole im abit unsure about. Also, the seatpost clamp doesnt fit at all as you can see. Should i cut the carbon about an inch?


----------



## lockwood1

That hole looks a little bit unusual


----------



## philippec

lockwood1 said:


> That hole looks a little bit unusual


internal cable routeing hole -- totally normal.


----------



## Italianrider76

philippec said:


> internal cable routing hole -- totally normal.


They could have finished it a little better.


----------



## lockwood1

Italianrider76 said:


> They could have finished it a little better.[/QUOTE
> 
> I agree with that.


----------



## Dr. Placebo

do you want to force the material to flex that way? I'd say leave it as is.


----------



## Toorqs

Thats good to hear, didnt think about that.


----------



## philippec

Italianrider76 said:


> They could have finished it a little better.


 true dat...


----------



## Rob81

I've the same frame and that's not a cable hole!


----------



## Toorqs

I sendt a mail to the seller with the pics, and he said all the frames had holes there.


----------



## Rob81

good then! 
btw my frame is this and from the details it looked the same, but I've a very little hole there, not so big
https://img168.imageshack.us/i/p9030100.jpg/


----------



## stevesbike

that looks like 2 holes on the toptube - sort of like rivet holes for a missing brake cable guide?


----------



## Toorqs

its just glare from the lights in the roof.

Anyone else with this frame have a solution for the seatpost clamp? The area that it doesnt cover aint good looking :/


----------



## Rob81

try a double clamp, but I don't know if they work well on carbon


----------



## raymonda

Go with a Campy. It is a bit wider and should cover the entire clamp area. Search ebay. They can be had for around $9.00. They are also asymetrical, which better distribute pressure.


----------



## Rob Stephenson

Macilvennon said:


> Do not worry. This is just imperfections in the Carbon weaving process. My Kuota OEM frame has the same issues and still runs perfect.
> 
> BK


Hi, thanks for the reply

I understand its part of the manufacturing process I was just concerned that it had weakened the fork in a critical area. I am guessing that some of the imperfections are about 1mm deep therefore this must have an effect on the structural strength of the tube. If there is a problem is the tube likely to break suddenly i.e. no steering?

Thanks


----------



## fab4

Here's my generic carbon Cannondale road bike. Bought it at ebay from 88bikefun. had it for 3 months and put it 200 miles on it with no problems whatsoever


----------



## asad137

fab4 said:


> Here's my generic carbon Cannondale road bike.


Contradiction in terms much?

Asad


----------



## mtkagan

what do you guys think about this orbea orca style clone? its pricey compared to the kredo clones. anyone have this particular frame?

http://cgi.ebay.com/NEW-ROAD-FRAME-FORK-CARBON-FRAMESET-52CM-ORBEA-style_W0QQitemZ320421496290QQcmdZViewItemQQptZRoad_Bikes?hash=item4a9a9c05e2&_trksid=p3286.c0.m14#ht_920wt_1094

or should i stick to the kredo clone frames? those who bought the kredo clone, how is it holding up? also any sellers i should go with for better service etc? any help would be great. thanks


----------



## grole

Hi.
My first post....
What size should I buy??
frame
I,m 185cm/6"1' and 75kg/165lbs(?)
The "effective top tube horizontal" seems to be to long with a 58, but the rest seems ok. I think.


----------



## mattah

I just ordered a 54cm frame/fork, with headset, handlebars, stem, and carbon bottle holders for $480 incl shipping. Cannot wait to get it here. Components will be SRAM Force/Rival.


----------



## mattah

grole said:


> Hi.
> My first post....
> What size should I buy??
> frame
> I,m 185cm/6"1' and 75kg/165lbs(?)
> The "effective top tube horizontal" seems to be to long with a 58, but the rest seems ok. I think.


Go here and have a look:

http://www.competitivecyclist.com/za/CCY?PAGE=FIT_CALCULATOR_INTRO&INTRO_LINK=NOREDIR&SITE.CODE=TRI

I find that gives a good indication of sizes from which to work with.


----------



## ChYnaDeep

fab4 said:


> Here's my generic carbon Cannondale road bike. Bought it at ebay from 88bikefun. had it for 3 months and put it 200 miles on it with no problems whatsoever


Do you by any chance have a weight on your bike pictured ? Just curious.
Oh and is it a 3k or 12k weave...did you get just the frame ?


----------



## ru1-2cycle

*Update*



MercuryMan76 said:


> With ru1-2cycle's permission I'm gonna post the pics of his bike for him.


My ebay carbon steed continues to deliver a superb ride and lots of "wow" comments. It still shimmers in the sunlight like jade. I am very pleased with it. It surpassed all of my expectations. You will get a lot more bike for the money!  ru1-2cycle


----------



## Toorqs

frame before clear coating:

It will have Sram red group
Aerozine X-13AC crankset
KCNC brakes \ misc goodies
Selfbuilt 50mm carbon wheels


----------



## FSonicSmith

The frame on the right looks quite similar to the Torelli Selvino except that the rear triangle configuration is a bit different; http://www.torelli.com/torelli/selvino.html It's a safe bet they both come out of the same Taiwanese factory. I race on the Selvino. It's a good crit bike, but not my favorite for road racing. Very short wheelbase-I have "toe clip overhang" on my medium (I am 5'11") and the geometry is very very compact. FWIW, I paid $850 for the Selvino with fork and headset and I supposedly got sponsorship price.


----------



## FSonicSmith

vmajor said:


> Also keep in mind that the shape of the frame is just one variable.
> 
> Significant manufacturing cost savings can be made by using different grade materials.
> 
> Thus, even identical looking frames may be entirely different from one another one since carbon fiber composite is exactly that, a carbon fiber COMPOSITE material. This means that the final carbon composite material properties are completely determined by the grade and quality of the carbon fiber and the resin used.
> 
> In metallurgical terms, the difference is similar to making a frame from the cheap non-heat treated 6061 alloy, versus the top of the range 7005 alloy. They will both look the same, but will not have the same performance.
> 
> As to which one is the "real" Kuota or not, I guess you can email Kuota or Martec and ask them...
> 
> V.


Victor;
You are in the business, and I am not. I agree with what you say in theory, but in practice it is my understanding that three huge factories in Taiwan manufacture 98% of the world's carbon frames and that with the exception of various permutations to make them look different for major brands, the matrix, carbon, and resin is otherwise identical in the current product year across the board. Evidently you think otherwise, but my question is; do you positively know for certain that there is a broad range of carbon quality among the various products? I don't think there is. You pay more for name brand and for manufacturer guarantees. You do not pay more for higher quality carbon.


----------



## nightfend

There are differing levels of carbon fiber. Since a mold is used to make the frame, there is no way to visually determine the modulus of the carbon fiber. But, the costs vary immensely depending on the carbon used.



FSonicSmith said:


> Victor;
> You are in the business, and I am not. I agree with what you say in theory, but in practice it is my understanding that three huge factories in Taiwan manufacture 98% of the world's carbon frames and that with the exception of various permutations to make them look different for major brands, the matrix, carbon, and resin is otherwise identical in the current product year across the board. Evidently you think otherwise, but my question is; do you positively know for certain that there is a broad range of carbon quality among the various products? I don't think there is. You pay more for name brand and for manufacturer guarantees. You do not pay more for higher quality carbon.


----------



## grole

nightfend said:


> There are differing levels of carbon fiber. Since a mold is used to make the frame, there is no way to visually determine the modulus of the carbon fiber. But, the costs vary* immensely *depending on the carbon used.


I'm not an expert but this seems kind of ehhhh.

There is 1 big reason to make carbon frames in Asia: more workers/$
If it was the material that was pricey, more of the carbon frames would have been made in Europe and USA! 

Cheap material+ lot of work = Asia
Expensive material + some work/robots= Europe/USA/Asia


----------



## robpar

*paint*

what paint did you use? what spray gun did you use?


----------



## nightfend

grole said:


> I'm not an expert but this seems kind of ehhhh.
> 
> There is 1 big reason to make carbon frames in Asia: more workers/$
> If it was the material that was pricey, more of the carbon frames would have been made in Europe and USA!
> 
> Cheap material+ lot of work = Asia
> Expensive material + some work/robots= Europe/USA/Asia


Believe what you will. But the carbon fiber used in F1 Racing and in the Aerospace industry is not even spec'd in the bike industry due to the cost. Not all carbon fiber is created equal.

But, I never made any comment about what quality carbon the Asian frames are made of, I was simply stating that you can not tell based on the frame molds being used. Obviously frames like the Pinarello Dogma (for instance) use very high modulus carbon fiber, even though they are made in Taiwan.

But, if you want another example. Cannondale for instance produces the Synapse carbon frame in two versions. Both use the same molds and look the same, but one is much lighter as it uses a higher modulus carbon fiber.


----------



## grole

I did not say that carbon frames from eBay was made like a space shuttle. I thought that the reason number 1 for building carbon frames in Asia is wage costs.
And I do not think that $ 300 eBay templates are better than $ 2000 + (?) Cannondale frame.
The point is that people who buy China Carbon on eBay do not save $ 1700 on a frame, use the $ 300 to get a carbon frame they could not afford from Cannondale and other famous brands.
Biggest problem with eBay frames I guess is the warranty. If a Cannondale frame breaks for no reason, you almost always get a new one from what I've know.


----------



## Robefa

Toorqs said:


> frame before clear coating:
> 
> It will have Sram red group
> Aerozine X-13AC crankset
> KCNC brakes \ misc goodies
> Selfbuilt 50mm carbon wheels



Hey Toorqs, you are from Norway right? Fredrikstad? . (slår om til norsk jeg, ingen andre som har interesse av denne uansett, PM eller noe?) Jeg så den ramma hos Nord billakk for noen uker siden. Var innom for å forhøre meg om lakkering av ... ja en ebay ramme . Ser du har tenkt å putte på litt heftig stæsj, jeg bygger sykler, artig å høre fra andre som har interessen også.


----------



## grole

Hmm bare norsk her jo....


----------



## ru1-2cycle

Has anyone needed to replace the rear derailleur hanger on this carbon ebay frame yet?


----------



## independentmind

Some folks replaced it right out of the box since there were reports that some hangers weren't straight or machined properly. The new trend is to request a replacement hanger directly from the seller when the frame is bought. Also a good idea to have a replacement hanging around just in case (though i've never had to replace a hanger on any of my bikes.)

I'm planning on ordering one of these frames and will follow suit.


----------



## ru1-2cycle

*RD Hanger*



independentmind said:


> Some folks replaced it right out of the box since there were reports that some hangers weren't straight or machined properly. The new trend is to request a replacement hanger directly from the seller when the frame is bought. Also a good idea to have a replacement hanging around just in case (though i've never had to replace a hanger on any of my bikes.)
> 
> I'm planning on ordering one of these frames and will follow suit.


Exactly...just ordered X2 RD hangers from bicycle_999 for...US $5.00 delivered...wow, they are free!


----------



## newmexrb1

nightfend said:


> Believe what you will. But the carbon fiber used in F1 Racing and in the Aerospace industry is not even spec'd in the bike industry due to the cost. Not all carbon fiber is created equal.
> 
> But, I never made any comment about what quality carbon the Asian frames are made of, I was simply stating that you can not tell based on the frame molds being used. Obviously frames like the Pinarello Dogma (for instance) use very high modulus carbon fiber, even though they are made in Taiwan.
> 
> But, if you want another example. Cannondale for instance produces the Synapse carbon frame in two versions. Both use the same molds and look the same, but one is much lighter as it uses a higher modulus carbon fiber.


Huh??? Toray carbon T800 is used by Boeing. 
http://www.toraycfa.com/application.html


t700 is likewise considered "aerospace grade".

The Teneo frameset found here claims to be made up of both. 

This bike from Hong Fu claims to be made from Toray CF. No grade given, however. Other bikes from same manufacturer do not claim same--and seem to weigh 200 gms more for similar size. I know these are just claims, but would appear to undercut claim that high quality PAN CF is unknown to bike industry. 

OK, well how about Leopard Bikes clearly claims T800. 

Some bikes are now using some T1000. Granted these are not the ultimate grades available, but neither do i believe all the Taiwan frames are being built with low grade materials, and there seems to be considerable overlap between "aerospace" and cycling grades. In the FWIW dept, many of the high performance amateur rockets being built (capable of speeds above Mach 4 and altitudes of 10 miles) use nothing better than T600. But no one is riding on these


----------



## PLAYONIT

newmexrb1 said:


> Huh??? Toray carbon T800 is used by Boeing.
> http://www.toraycfa.com/application.html
> 
> 
> t700 is likewise considered "aerospace grade".
> 
> The Teneo frameset found here claims to be made up of both.
> 
> This bike from Hong Fu claims to be made from Toray CF. No grade given, however. Other bikes from same manufacturer do not claim same--and seem to weigh 200 gms more for similar size. I know these are just claims, but would appear to undercut claim that high quality PAN CF is unknown to bike industry.
> 
> OK, well how about Leopard Bikes clearly claims T800.
> 
> Some bikes are now using some T1000. Granted these are not the ultimate grades available, but neither do i believe all the Taiwan frames are being built with low grade materials, and there seems to be considerable overlap between "aerospace" and cycling grades. In the FWIW dept, many of the high performance amateur rockets being built (capable of speeds above Mach 4 and altitudes of 10 miles) use nothing better than T600. But no one is riding on these


I know the Hongfu model I bought is T700....


----------



## Mr_P

I bought one too and after my first ride I must say that I am really satisfied. It is a smooth ride with superb handling (so far). I built it up with a complete SRAM Force (2010) groupset, ritchey WCS handlebar, stem and seatpost (Carbon). Look KEO Carbon pedals, SLR saddle and Shimano Dura Ace wheels with GP 4000S tires. Total weight is appr. 6.8 Kg. 

Here are some pix on the build (I have not cut the fork to proper lenght yet)


----------



## Olafstoutjesdijk

awesome bike man, nice work. Only thing i'd change is the white seatclamp, but thats my opinion. it maches the wheels and bars though. Mine weighs 7,4 kg. can you comment on the dura ace wheels, or havent you ridden them yet?

PS: that force group looks great, enjoy it.


----------



## PCMarcelino

Awesome build, Mr_P!

Are you going to leave it stealth black or going to make some custom decals?


----------



## Mr_P

Thanks for your comments! 

Olafstoutjesdijk, I have only been out once on the DA wheels for about 60 km. First impression is "wow". light (under 1400g), stiff and responsive! 


PCMarcelino, I was thinking of getting some decals but I think I just going to leave it stealth. Perhaps I add some discreet "Powered by SRAM" decals down on the flat chain stay.


----------



## kiwisimon

Sweet looking plastic fantastic! Leave it as it is but actually it's powered by "P".


----------



## stevesbike

nice build but I'd be careful about the spacer height below the stem - with a carbon steerer spacer height limits are usually anywhere from 15-40mm. Park tools service site notes a general limit of 20mm. I'd personally want to be below 20mm on these frames/forks and would either flip the stem or get one with a different angle to minimize the spacer height.

http://www.parktool.com/repair/readhowto.asp?id=111


----------



## Mr_P

Thank you for yor comment about the spacers. At the time the photo was taken I hadn't cut it (the fork) down to proper lenght. After my first test run I found out that I dont need all those spacers and my plan is to use a total of 15mm.


----------



## mop sack

Macilvennon said:


> KMan said:
> 
> 
> 
> Your reference to Landis is exactly what I mentioned - sponsorship conflicts. There are a lot of other PRO's that relable gear due to csponsorship conflicts - understandable. Not flamming you, it's just something I've never understood why people do this. If you like the name brand so much, buy one of their bikes, if you think they are overprices - why advertise for them ???
> 
> ....and glad you edited out the other commment, but just to answer it, I know enough about bikes to be able to build and do everything I need myself without wrenching from a LBS. I've been building my own bikes for as long as I can remember (including wheels if I have the time). Here are a few of the bikes I have built and maintained over the years:
> 
> Hi Michael,
> 
> Thanks for your interesting array of bikes, some of which looked quite good.
> 
> I do not want to get caught up with the ethics of putting decals onto an un-matching frame. I think that my bike looks better with decals than without.
> 
> Overall, I am very happy with how it looks and performs, which is at the end of the day what really matters.
> 
> Thanks. BK.
> 
> 
> 
> Nice, but with the right build, I think they look pretty good sans decals (had not wrapped bars yet when I took the pic)
Click to expand...


----------



## independentmind

mop sack said:


> Macilvennon said:
> 
> 
> 
> Nice, but with the right build, I think they look pretty good sans decals (had not wrapped bars yet when I took the pic)
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Nice job.
> 
> I've got that same print on my wall. And, are those skulls on your rims? How'd you manage that?
Click to expand...


----------



## mop sack

independentmind said:


> mop sack said:
> 
> 
> 
> Nice job.
> 
> I've got that same print on my wall. And, are those skulls on your rims? How'd you manage that?
> 
> 
> 
> I really like the bike. It fits and rides better than anything I have ever owned, and with the Flashpoint wheels and power tap via Ebay and Craigs List, the entire thing was under 3K.
> 
> The wheel decals are from wheeltags.com. They are a sponsor, and if anyone here is interested in a set, send me a pm, and I will send you a 50% discount code.
Click to expand...


----------



## wilsonianinstitute2000

Hey check this out. This guy's trying to sell his Chinese carbon build for 4 grand!

http://toronto.en.craigslist.ca/drh/bik/1476405873.html

Yeeesh!


----------



## independentmind

wilsonianinstitute2000 said:


> Hey check this out. This guy's trying to sell his Chinese carbon build for 4 grand!
> 
> http://toronto.en.craigslist.ca/drh/bik/1476405873.html
> 
> Yeeesh!


Check again and you'll see this:

"This is in response to this post: Brand New Beautul Carbon Fibre Road Bike - 56 cm - $4000 at http://toronto.en.craigslist.ca/drh/bik/1476405873.html

This is a scam, this same frame can be had for just over $300 on ebay. It is NOT a custom, it comes out of the same factory as several other thousand frames bearing the same design. Although the quality appears to be good it does NOT make for a $4000 bike.
As a piece of advice to the original poster of the bike, may i sugest that you sir post a FAIR price instead !
To all others interested, please check ebay for carbon frames.

Done"

Hmmmmm i wonder who posted that?


----------



## WILMUNRH

MercuryMan76 said:


> I actually just changed it up and ended up buying the Kredo style frame in a 52cm size. I'm right about 5'8"/5'9" and my inseam is just a shade under 31". I noticed that the standover height on the first frame I was looking at was 801mm (or at least that's what the seller listed it as) and this wouldn't leave me any room to clear the bar at all. The Kredo style frame has a tad shorter standover height so hopefully it will all workout, although I may need to use a longer stem.
> 
> The frame I bought was the same as pictured here. Btw, I bought the frame, seatpost, wavy fork, handlebar, and seatpost clamp for $410 shipped. If anyone is thinking of buying one of these bikes try contacting the seller directly and make them an offer because more than likely I think they will accept it. I will post up some pictures of the frame when it arrives.
> 
> I'm also going to build this up with SRAM Rival I think. I've just been trying to decide on the wheelset to go with.


Hi mercuryman,
I am about the the same size as you 5' 8" no shoes with 30 1/2" inseam and I am trying to decide whether to buy the 52cm as you have or the 54cm. I usually ride 54cm steel frames with a saddle height of 28"(71cm) center crank to saddle top. I was wondering if you have a pic that I could see of your final build and your saddle height measurment? Are you satisfied with your sizing on your 52cm?....Thanks in advance for your help...


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## untoothedyouth

mop sack said:


> Macilvennon said:
> 
> 
> 
> Nice, but with the right build, I think they look pretty good sans decals (had not wrapped bars yet when I took the pic)
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> That is one sweet looking ride you got there!
Click to expand...


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## ru1-2cycle

*Retro poster*



untoothedyouth said:


> mop sack said:
> 
> 
> 
> That is one sweet looking ride you got there!
> 
> 
> 
> Sweet ride indeed. I like the retro "smoking" cyclists in the background.
> I should be getting my Kredo clone frame anytime now... ru1-2cycle
Click to expand...


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## Jixeroo

You all have very nice bikes, here's my kick at the cat .....

View attachment 184387

View attachment 184388


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## WILMUNRH

Looks great,That is a really nice build. Is that a 52 or 54cm frame? That fork looks like 43mm rake is it? 

I have the frame geometry drawings from yong (bicycle_999) for a 54cm frame. 
The drawings specify a 43mm rake fork but he sells 45mm rake forks with the frame. 
Has anyone ever actually measured one? 
Maybe that is the reason for the slower handling that I keep reading about


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## danahs

i think that if people insist on putting stickers on their ebay frames they should put bicycle_999 or hongfu... much cooler than putting trek stickers on a hongfu frame IMO


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## philippec

danahs said:


> i think that if people insist on putting stickers on their ebay frames they should put bicycle_999 or hongfu... much cooler than putting trek stickers on a hongfu frame IMO


although much more non-chinese up-front design work goes into Specialized, Cervelo and Pinarello, they all get manufactured in Chinese factories.... should they put the name of the factory of origin on the frame?? Also, Hong-fu is a middleman, should they put the factory name on their re-branded "Hong-fu's"? So many questions.... 

and, yes, I know that high-end Treks are not made in China.


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## Jixeroo

WILMUNRH said:


> Looks great,That is a really nice build. Is that a 52 or 54cm frame? That fork looks like 43mm rake is it?
> 
> I have the frame geometry drawings from yong (bicycle_999) for a 54cm frame.
> The drawings specify a 43mm rake fork but he sells 45mm rake forks with the frame.
> Has anyone ever actually measured one?
> Maybe that is the reason for the slower handling that I keep reading about


The frame is 50cm and the Edge Aero 2.0 fork has a 43mm rake.


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## MercuryMan76

WILMUNRH said:


> Hi mercuryman,
> I am about the the same size as you 5' 8" no shoes with 30 1/2" inseam and I am trying to decide whether to buy the 52cm as you have or the 54cm. I usually ride 54cm steel frames with a saddle height of 28"(71cm) center crank to saddle top. I was wondering if you have a pic that I could see of your final build and your saddle height measurment? Are you satisfied with your sizing on your 52cm?....Thanks in advance for your help...


Here's a picture of the bike fully built up.










My inseam is 78cm (30.7in) and I don't ride with my saddle quite as high as you might. My saddle height is set at 69cm (27.2 inches) but I actually don't even ride this bike anymore because I bought a Caad9 that's become my main ride. As others have stated it really is a solid frame that absorbs a lot of road vibration. In my opinion there is a bit of lateral flex, but this is the only carbon frame I've ridden. My basis for comparison comes from several aluminum Cannondale's which are known for being incredibly stiff. I mentioned in a previous thread that I've hit 48mph descents on this bike and had full confidence in the frame.

If you think a 52cm would be the right size for you let me know as I may actually try to sell this frame, fork, handlebars, seatpost, etc. for a good price. I just don't ride it since I bought the Caad9.


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## WILMUNRH

Well, How does the handling feel compared to other bikes you have owned? Assuming you have owned others of course.


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## Jixeroo

WILMUNRH said:


> Well, How does the handling feel compared to other bikes you have owned? Assuming you have owned others of course.


I have a Ti road bike (with an Alpha Q GS-10 fork) of similar geometry . The CF bike is stiffer with respect to overall handling, the most noticeable difference in the CF bike is the feeling of direct power transmission to the rear wheel, the bike is quicker and tighter than my Ti bike. 
The CF bike was originally fitted with a Reynolds Ouzo Pro 45mm rake fork that had symetry issues (http://www.calfeedesign.com/forksymmetry.htm), I did not like descending with this setup. 
The Edge Aero 2.0 fork with 43mm of rake was a vast imporvement and confidence inspiring especially in the descending department. 
In a word I would say the CF bike felt more efficient than the Ti bike I have.


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## Asmodeus2112

*Satisfaction / problem survey*

I'm seriously thinking about taking the leap as many of you have done. So far it looks to me like there's about a 20% defect rate, one fork steer tube failure and one FD hanger failure. Would ya'll that have purchased frames be so kind to give us an update to your satisfaction and/or problems to date?

Thanks in advance...


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## ru1-2cycle

*Bicycle_999 ebay seller*



Asmodeus2112 said:


> I'm seriously thinking about taking the leap as many of you have done. So far it looks to me like there's about a 20% defect rate, one fork steer tube failure and one FD hanger failure. Would ya'll that have purchased frames be so kind to give us an update to your satisfaction and/or problems to date?
> 
> Thanks in advance...


Well, happy holidays to all. I am having a blast with my recently purchased 12Kcarbon Kredo clone frame. It has a gorgeous and oversized BB, with an assymetric sexy setastays. She hums at moderate to high speeds, particularly while descending like a falcon, steady, stable, precise. It is super comfortable, I have mine with the carbon bar and stem, Shimano 105 black group and FSA RD 400 wheelset. The saddle is the Selle Italia SLR from competitive Cyclist @ $49, 181g. The pedals, Nashbar aluminun cleapless @ $20.
I will try to post pics. This type of frame is by far the best carbon frame for your buck! I appreciate Bicycle_999 business, and thanks to e-bay!  ru1-2cycle


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## Asmodeus2112

*58cm Frame*

Seems that there is only one 58CM option, anyone buy one? If so, how tall are you and how is the fit? I'm 6'3" (190cm) with a 36 3/4" (93.3cm) inseam.


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## erickras

I started my Kuota Kredo a few months ago but then got clobbered by bronchitis and so my ten year hiatus from cycling has had to wait a few more months. But alas I took her out yesterday and boy it sure didn't take long to hurt...and I loved it.


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## f3rg

I like how a lot of you guys are clamping the carbon seat tube in your bike stands. Brilliant move.


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## asad137

f3rg said:


> I like how a lot of you guys are clamping the carbon seat tube in your bike stands. Brilliant move.


You do realize that most bike stands have soft jaws, right?

Asad


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## biketaviousmaximus

asad137 said:


> You do realize that most bike stands have soft jaws, right?
> 
> Asad


And carbon is as strong as alloy? right?


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## f3rg

asad137 said:


> You do realize that most bike stands have soft jaws, right?
> 
> Asad


Grab your plastic toys by the seatposts, not the frames. Those things are on the edge of snapping enough as it is.

They're nice looking frames, and I've been tempted by them myself, so this isn't an insult to these frames. Carbon is just not the sort of thing you want to take chances with, especially when it comes to clamping forces.

http://www.bustedcarbon.com/ :thumbsup:


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## asad137

biketaviousmaximus said:


> And carbon is as strong as alloy? right?


Clamping force is adjustable too. Only an idiot would CRANK DOWN LIKE HELL on a bike stand clamp.

And hey, what if you have a carbon seatpost?

If you have a frame that will be damaged by clamping it in a bike stand, then better that it get damaged there and you notice it than it fail out on the road.

Asad


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## robpar

asad137 said:


> Clamping force is adjustable too. Only an idiot would CRANK DOWN LIKE HELL on a bike stand clamp.
> 
> And hey, what if you have a carbon seatpost?
> 
> If you have a frame that will be damaged by clamping it in a bike stand, then better that it get damaged there and you notice it than it fail out on the road.
> 
> Asad


Agreed. I'm tired of people talking about not clamping carbon frames. Sure, if you clamp without any regard to WHAT your clamping, you'll tear up the frame. I also have carbon seatposts and I don't want to remove them and re-set my saddle height EVERY time I put my bikes on the stand (which I do a lot). I just don't "clamp" the frame, I turn the adjusting knob on the clamp just enough to softly grip the frame and then I clamp it. If I need more force, I tighten the knob just a little more; with light-weight bikes the force needed is minimal. This allows me to hold the bike from any direction and any tube. I've been doing it for years.


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## stevesbike

asad137 said:


> Clamping force is adjustable too. Only an idiot would CRANK DOWN LIKE HELL on a bike stand clamp.
> 
> And hey, what if you have a carbon seatpost?
> 
> If you have a frame that will be damaged by clamping it in a bike stand, then better that it get damaged there and you notice it than it fail out on the road.
> 
> Asad


go into a good bike shop or watch the mechanics at a pro race - all will clamp a carbon frame by the seatpost. That's bike repair 101 - a carbon seatpost is designed for clamping forces and if it does break you're only out a seatpost, not an entire frame...


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## tihsepa

Regardless of where you clamp the frame, this is 13 pages of really boring bikes. Sorry.


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## asad137

stevesbike said:


> go into a good bike shop or watch the mechanics at a pro race - all will clamp a carbon frame by the seatpost. That's bike repair 101 - a carbon seatpost is designed for clamping forces and if it does break you're only out a seatpost, not an entire frame...


How many carbon frames have people seen broken on the seat tube due to people clamping them too hard in bike stand soft-jaw clamps? Anyone?

If it really is a problem, I'm more than happy to change my tune, but I just don't see the evidence.

Asad


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## f3rg

asad137 said:


> How many carbon frames have people seen broken on the seat tube due to people clamping them too hard in bike stand soft-jaw clamps? Anyone?
> 
> If it really is a problem, I'm more than happy to change my tune, but I just don't see the evidence.
> 
> Asad


The evidence may come at a later date. Minor stresses now--that you aren't even aware of--could lead to frame failure later on. It's just not worth risking, especially when the seatpost is intended to take the stress, and it's only about 8" away from where you're already clamping it.


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