# annoying vs commercials: why isn't LANCE in the Take back the Tour commercial?



## bas (Jul 30, 2004)

vino, landis, ulrich, rasmussen are featured. Where is BASSO? Where is LANCE?




other one i'm fed up with already - the SAAB commercial, repeats 3x. I would believe ALL Cars have an EGR system and reburn exhaust gas. This is nothing new.


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## velomonkey (Jul 8, 2003)

I don't get the take back the tour commercials. They make no sense to me and Versus, as much as I love them, sometimes really screws up the broadcast.

As for SAAB, you do have to give them some love for sponsoring and GM as an entity (since they own saab) has been supporting cycling for a long time with the Saturn team and there even was a domestic saab team with andy bishop in the 90s. 

Just be glad there is cycling on TV and it's not ESPN II for half an hour at 2am like it was in 1999.


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## Bry03cobra (Oct 31, 2006)

I think that since LA never "Failed" a test, if VS showed him as a past doper, they would be setting themselves up for a lawsuit. The last time we saw Basso race the tour, it was LA's last win....I think Basso is "forgotten".

Another thing, I'm sure VS(comcast) did pretty well financialy during those LA TDF's. Why would they start trouble with someone who lined their pockets. With how big comcast has become, if LA were to sue them, they would probably just settle.....easiest to just keep LA out of it.


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## Dwayne Barry (Feb 16, 2003)

velomonkey said:


> They make no sense to me...


Well I think they make perfect sense to anyone who follows professional cycling, whether there is any real value in airing them or not I have my doubts. However, I was sitting there thinking if you have no real idea about the doping and are someone who just tunes in to watch the Tour that it wouldn't make much sense at all. It could even be misconstrued as "take back the Tour" means returning to an American winner


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## bas (Jul 30, 2004)

Dwayne Barry said:


> Well I think they make perfect sense to anyone who follows professional cycling, whether there is any real value in airing them or not I have my doubts. However, I was sitting there thinking if you have no real idea about the doping and are someone who just tunes in to watch the Tour that it wouldn't make much sense at all. It could even be misconstrued as "take back the Tour" means returning to an American winner



I was thinking that till I saw Landis.. haha


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## bas (Jul 30, 2004)

I also think it is offensive to current and former sponsors.

Is that Salvoldelli on the TT bike?? I can't tell.

Astana, Bianchi, Phonak, RaboBank are 'shamed' in the commercial.

Why isn't jan/Tmob used?


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## roadie92 (Jan 21, 2008)

At first I thought they used pro riders that was accused of doping like Rass, Jan, Landis, and Vino. All of those riders where accused of dopping. So maybe what they mean by take back the Tour is take it back from doping????????


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## bas (Jul 30, 2004)

roadie92 said:


> At first I thought they used pro riders that was accused of doping like Rass, Jan, Landis, and Vino. All of those riders where accused of dopping. So maybe what they mean by take back the Tour is take it back from doping????????


who is in the green stepping down from the podium with the child in his arms?


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## ewarnerusa (Oct 11, 2007)

bas said:


> who is in the green stepping down from the podium with the child in his arms?


Zabel. It is pretty rude considering he's in the race this year as sprint captain for Milram.

The Astana jersey TTing is Vino, of course. 

Just saw the Saab recycling exhaust commericial and yes, it is annoying. All turbo chargers function by using exhaust gas pressure to turn a turbine which pressurizes the air intake to force more air into the combustion chamber. Nothing new....


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## godot (Feb 3, 2004)

I logged on to start this exact thread, all they way down to the "where's lance in that commercial" comment.

No way the former Only Lance Network would do anything to tarnish their golden boy.

Shouldn't they throw Heras in there too?

It's a pretty annoying commercial.


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## bas (Jul 30, 2004)

ewarnerusa said:


> Zabel. It is pretty rude considering he's in the race this year as sprint captain for Milram.
> 
> The Astana jersey TTing is Vino, of course. The commercial shows riders who have admitted and/or failed dope tests in their careers. Except Ullrich, he's a case where all the evidence points towards doper, but he has never admitted to it or failed a PED test. Just failed for Ecstasy.
> 
> .


Zabel did admit to using PED in what, 97? but said it made him sick and didn't work so he stopped.


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## ewarnerusa (Oct 11, 2007)

bas said:


> Zabel did admit to using PED in what, 97? but said it made him sick and didn't work so he stopped.


Yeah, pretty poor class throwing Zabel into their Tour of Shame commercial.


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## rogger (Aug 19, 2005)

roadie92 said:


> At first I thought they used pro riders that was accused of doping like Rass, Jan, Landis, and Vino. All of those riders where accused of dopping. So maybe what they mean by take back the Tour is take it back from doping????????


Nope, what they mean is to turn negative emotions towards doping into pure gold or at least maintaining their share in the television market.


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## WAZCO (Sep 16, 2004)

bas said:


> who is in the green stepping down from the podium with the child in his arms?


I thought it was Boonen but now that you said "with the child" then I don't know.


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## Ziptie (Sep 3, 2003)

+1 Showing Zabel, with his kid no less, is pretty $hitty. And where's Virenque?


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## OnTheRivet (Sep 3, 2004)

bas said:


> vino, landis, ulrich, rasmussen are featured. Where is BASSO? Where is LANCE?
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Wrong, wrong and wrong. An EGR system burns off crankcase ventilation residue. Also the SAAB commercial is referring to the use of exhaust energy to run the turbocharger. And finally Armstrong never tested positive. He may have doped(probably) but he was never caught and we have this thing in America called innocent until proven guilty.


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## ChuckUni (Jan 2, 2003)

OnTheRivet said:


> Wrong, wrong and wrong. An EGR system burns off crankcase ventilation residue. Also the SAAB commercial is referring to the use of exhaust energy to run the turbocharger. And finally Armstrong never tested positive. He may have doped(probably) but he was never caught and we have this thing in America called innocent until proven guilty.


Wrong....on the EGR at least. EGR stands for Exhast Gas Recirculation. It does recirculate exhaust gases back into the intake to lower emissions. PCV is what burns off crankcase gases (blow by). Positive Crankcase Ventilation. Puts gasses that leak by the piston rings into the intake to be burnt, thus not allowing them to get to the atmosphere = lower emissions.

/back to the original topic.


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## Mootsie (Feb 4, 2004)

bas said:


> I also think it is offensive to current and former sponsors.
> 
> Is that Salvoldelli on the TT bike?? I can't tell.
> 
> ...


Jan is featured fairly prominently in Bianchi kit.


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## PJay (May 28, 2004)

*heavily tested. never positive.*

lance: heavily tested, never tested positive.


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## edhchoe (Jun 3, 2007)

The frequent SAAB commercial is already annoying and within the commercial they repeat the same sentence 3 times. That is very annoying. But I had to go enter for the sweepstakes.


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## road addict (Sep 23, 2005)

I watched it last week and they showed tour stage with Basso winning and Lance on his wheel.I find it strange that scene seems to deleted


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## bas (Jul 30, 2004)

road addict said:


> I watched it last week and they showed tour stage with Basso winning and Lance on his wheel.I find it strange that scene seems to deleted


Interesting!!!!


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## bas (Jul 30, 2004)

ewarnerusa said:


> The Astana jersey TTing is Vino, of course.


I just saw it again ..

After they roll vino backwards into the start house - and cut to the side view - I didn't see any more bandages on his right leg.


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## blackhat (Jan 2, 2003)

PJay said:


> lance: heavily tested, never tested positive.


obviously, that's not true and it's not a very original defense either. what else you got?


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## B15serv (Apr 27, 2008)

Yea I think that regardless of whos in it and whos not the whole thing has no class. Im assuming that they dont like doping right? Which means that they probably love the sport and care about its future, right? Well I just want to know why they would add to the issue by publicly degrading these cyclists. Last I check trying to profit by doping is frowned upon, and I dont see a difference between the cyclist doing it and Vs. exploiting it as well. To me its both people using drugs to get ahead. And I totally agree that using zabel with his kid is terrible. there was no class at all when they chose this commercial.
I dont like people doping in cycling at all, I think that its terrible for the sport... but I also take into consideration that none of us can truly know the pressures and anxiety that could have driven these people to cheat. I highly doubt that when Ivan Basso was a kid he would dream of doping and riding a bike. I still dont think that doping is right and it definately needs to be done away with. But lets remember that these athletes were driven to cheat and are now living with the consequences of their actions. I dont feel that shaming them even more in a tasteless commercial is something that VS. should have done. In fact i think that Vs is the one that looks worst in this ad.


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## krisdrum (Oct 29, 2007)

Re Zabel: The extended version also features Millar. Reformed or not, a doper is a doper.


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## atpjunkie (Mar 23, 2002)

*but where's Virenque??????*

he and his team were popped in the tour
Zabel never was

it is a lame promo

like watching someone kick a dead horse


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## jupiterrn (Sep 22, 2006)

Maybe they should show someone peeing into a cup while planning his son's funeral or all the blood draws being done now to show they mean business?


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## J-No (Aug 22, 2007)

I was wondering who was in green also. What about the bunch finish at the very beginning? Is that an opening shot, or is it pointed at someone?


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## garbec (Mar 3, 2006)

I really miss the VR Chipper - Mower ads!


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## PJay (May 28, 2004)

*zulle. forgot. my bad.*



blackhat said:


> obviously, that's not true and it's not a very original defense either. what else you got?


oh, i forgot about how they took GC away from lance for 1999 and gave it to zulle.


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## karatemom (Mar 21, 2008)

It is a terrible commercial. I feel particularly bad for Floyd, who I tend to like, even if I do believe that he did cheat. They basically show the Tour de France people taking the yellow jersey off of him, which, (two years later) they actually did. I'm sure he's cringing everytime he sees this stupid commercial.


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## Kestreljr (Jan 10, 2007)

karatemom said:


> It is a terrible commercial. I feel particularly bad for Floyd, who I tend to like, even if I do believe that he did cheat. They basically show the Tour de France people taking the yellow jersey off of him, which, (two years later) they actually did. I'm sure he's cringing everytime he sees this stupid commercial.


He should have thought about that before he put that T-patch on. He is guilty, and not even man enough to admit it.


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## The Weasel (Jul 20, 2006)

What about Pantani? Why does this guy always seem to get a free pass? Just because he's died early? I mean if your intention is to be classless and publicly shame these people, why not go all out?


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## Gnarly 928 (Nov 19, 2005)

I think the VS commercials are quite effective. Many Pro Cyclists, as proven often by their own behavior, seem to be a somewhat childish group. Making their stupid self-centered cheating behavior come back over and over, to haunt them right on TV, might just get their limited attention.. Pro cyclists coming along now will see how doping and getting caught will put them in front of everyone, in international TV coverage and in the press as lame cheaters. They might finally realize that maybe looking dumb and cheating is not how they want to do it.

It wasn't VS or the sport of cycling that suck that IV into those guy's arms or toes or wherever, to pump them up with chemicals..It was their own choice, their own greed. If they thought..."Gee, I am SPECIAL...I won't be caught, I am not *really* cheating, I'll just do this one time, nobody will test ME, blah blah" they were living in a child's world. They are getting a spanking now..

For the casual fan of Pro Cycling, those commercials are effective too. In case we forget, many of us cyclists, including new fans who are thinking about racing themselves someday, we are cyclists because it is healthy. We are cyclists because, subtracting all that chemical performance enhancment BS, once we saddle up we are all potentially equal on the bikes...But the cheaters took that away so they could make a few bucks. They deserve derision and scorn, ridicule and ostracisim. 

The VS ads are ok..but yes, they do show a ton of them over and over..
Don Hanson


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## mohair_chair (Oct 3, 2002)

Personally, I like the ad. All those guys are confirmed dopers. Even Zabel. Get over it.


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## ToF (Jan 18, 2008)

mohair_chair said:


> Personally, I like the ad. All those guys are confirmed dopers. Even Zabel. Get over it.


True but I don't get why they bother to show it? All it does is draw attention away from the current tour and remind people of all the suck. It seems like a weird way to promote a sport by reminding everyone constantly of all the cheating in said sport. It's cussed and discussed ad infinitum all over the internet already, I just don't get the reasoning behind it. Every time I see Vino I get bummed all over again. Why do you like it?


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## rogger (Aug 19, 2005)

tferris said:


> True but I don't get why they bother to show it? All it does is draw attention away from the current tour and remind people of all the suck. It seems like a weird way to promote a sport by reminding everyone constantly of all the cheating in said sport. It's cussed and discussed ad infinitum all over the internet already, I just don't get the reasoning behind it. Every time I see Vino I get bummed all over again. Why do you like it?


Them promoting the race as all clean and shiny now won't sell VS nor the TdF, them assuming a false image of outrage sells VS and that in turn sells viewing of the TdF creating a lot of revenue for VS. It's not rocket science.


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## mohair_chair (Oct 3, 2002)

tferris said:


> True but I don't get why they bother to show it? All it does is draw attention away from the current tour and remind people of all the suck. It seems like a weird way to promote a sport by reminding everyone constantly of all the cheating in said sport. It's cussed and discussed ad infinitum all over the internet already, I just don't get the reasoning behind it. Every time I see Vino I get bummed all over again. Why do you like it?


I like it because it is a strong message delivered in a relatively subtle fashion. I like it because it is well crafted: Few words, just music and images, until the end. It highlights the "theme" of the tour this year, which is essentially "clean and scandal free." Versus doesn't need to remind anyone of cheating. Play the word association game with an average American these days, and you are likely to get "doping" as a response to "Tour de France." The Tour claims it will be clean this year. Many teams claim they are clean. Versus is emphasizing that message. And everyone is crossing their fingers.


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## ToF (Jan 18, 2008)

mohair_chair said:


> I like it because it is a strong message delivered in a relatively subtle fashion. I like it because it is well crafted: Few words, just music and images, until the end. It highlights the "theme" of the tour this year, which is essentially "clean and scandal free." Versus doesn't need to remind anyone of cheating. Play the word association game with an average American these days, and you are likely to get "doping" as a response to "Tour de France." The Tour claims it will be clean this year. Many teams claim they are clean. Versus is emphasizing that message. And everyone is crossing their fingers.


OK I can see that. Particularly for newer viewers.


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## KMan (Feb 3, 2004)

*Confused...*



blackhat said:


> obviously, that's not true and it's not a very original defense either. what else you got?





> never tested positive


What else do you need  
Innocent until proven guilty....Like it or not - Lance was never proven to be a doper (not even close) so I would suggest you forget about how he is a 7 time Tour winner and how that ruins your day :lol: 

Michael


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## brock (Sep 8, 2005)

Does anyone know what rider is featured in the new "Take Back the Tour" commercial? The one with the "Screw the Dopers, Politics, Critics, etc."?


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## BikinCO (Feb 17, 2004)

brock said:


> Does anyone know what rider is featured in the new "Take Back the Tour" commercial? The one with the "Screw the Dopers, Politics, Critics, etc."?


Thomas Voeckler


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## brock (Sep 8, 2005)

Thanks!!!


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## krisdrum (Oct 29, 2007)

mohair_chair said:


> I like it because it is a strong message delivered in a relatively subtle fashion. I like it because it is well crafted: Few words, just music and images, until the end. It highlights the "theme" of the tour this year, which is essentially "clean and scandal free." Versus doesn't need to remind anyone of cheating. Play the word association game with an average American these days, and you are likely to get "doping" as a response to "Tour de France." The Tour claims it will be clean this year. Many teams claim they are clean. Versus is emphasizing that message. And everyone is crossing their fingers.


+1. I happen to think it is a great commercial.


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## Travis (Oct 14, 2005)

don't you guys have 30 second skip? In the PNW I wake up at 6am, fire up the tour on DVR, 30 sec skip * 5 for every commercial break and it wraps up on live format at 830am

I see the Saab logo fly buy but nary a noise and Jan in the Bianchi speed pedaling backwards is pretty interesting. Live TV is passe'


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## btinder (Aug 25, 2007)

Why not Lance? Because Lance never tested positive, his success can be explained physiologically.


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## JeffN (Sep 19, 2006)

road addict said:


> I watched it last week and they showed tour stage with Basso winning and Lance on his wheel.I find it strange that scene seems to deleted



Exactly! I saw the same commercial, which was longer than the one currently playing. Of all the clips they could have shown of Basso they chose one that included Lance. I was very curious about that, and I wouldn't be surprised if Versus received a phone call from LAs people.


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## bigpinkt (Jul 20, 2006)

How is it they have Jan, who never tested positive nor was ever suspended or sanctioned, yet not Lance? The evidence against Lance is far greater then Jan (though they both doped)


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## mohair_chair (Oct 3, 2002)

bigpinkt said:


> How is it they have Jan, who never tested positive nor was ever suspended or sanctioned, yet not Lance? The evidence against Lance is far greater then Jan (though they both doped)


They have physical evidence on Ullrich. They only have circumstantial evidence on Armstrong. Big difference.


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## blackhat (Jan 2, 2003)

mohair_chair said:


> They have physical evidence on Ullrich. They only have circumstantial evidence on Armstrong. Big difference.


Im not sure it's a matter of preponderance of evidence. If you look at all of the "circumstantial" evidence combined with the tests, there's more there saying LA doped than Jan. but jan's been acting guilty for months, and it's a US network with a US market. They can much more safely call him a doper than LA.


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## bigpinkt (Jul 20, 2006)

mohair_chair said:


> They have physical evidence on Ullrich. They only have circumstantial evidence on Armstrong. Big difference.


There is physical evidence against Armstrong, 6 of his samples from the 99 tour have EPO in them. The chain of custody of these sample is also far superior to the chain of custody for Jan's blood bags.


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## velomonkey (Jul 8, 2003)

bigpinkt said:


> There is physical evidence against Armstrong, 6 of his samples from the 99 tour have EPO in them. The chain of custody of these sample is also far superior to the chain of custody for Jan's blood bags.


True Dat!!!!! Here is what I like, they show Jan with only the Bianchi jersey, since Bianchi doesn't advertise why not. TMobile, though, they advertise all over Comcast so they can't show that. The green jersey of Zabel is vague at best and only a small percentage would identify it as a TMobile green jersey. They completely threw Landis right under the bus. 

Lance is such the doper. Too bad Frankie doesn't just commandeer the mic and go on a rant!!!


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## mohair_chair (Oct 3, 2002)

bigpinkt said:


> There is physical evidence against Armstrong, 6 of his samples from the 99 tour have EPO in them. The chain of custody of these sample is also far superior to the chain of custody for Jan's blood bags.


Not this **** again.

http://forums.roadbikereview.com/showthread.php?p=1590672#poststop


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## bigpinkt (Jul 20, 2006)

mohair_chair said:


> Not this **** again.
> 
> http://forums.roadbikereview.com/showthread.php?p=1590672#poststop



Are you really going to embarrass yourself again by pulling up the Vrijman report? Something that was widely discredited as yet another UCI cover up?

Your willingness to accept the evidence again Jan yet ignore the far more substantial evidence against Lance is sad. The idea that evidence gathered in the home fridge of a Madrid Gynecologists, and transfered from Fuentes to the Guardia Civil, to the Judaical magistrate, to the German Fed, to a Bonn Prosecutor is more reliable then an anonymous test run by the largest anti doping lab in the world shows that you are unable, or unwilling, to make a rational analysis.

Jan and Lance both doped, Jan just wasn't as good with inventing a good myth to fool people into thinking he was clean.....he also did not have the smarts to donate a bunch of money to the UCI


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## Spongedog (Aug 6, 2005)

Great commercial. VS needs to fully and completely shame the dopers so that anyone thinking of doing it this year will realize they too will end up in a commercial.


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## Racer C (Jul 18, 2002)

I think it's kind of funny how several posters here aren't griping about who IS featured in the commercial, but rather, who is NOT featured. If they were to feature every rider who's ever been caught doping in Le Tour, that would be a LONG commercial. Just to give you an idea, the footage would need to include: Bernard Thevenet (Admitted using steroids in the 1975 and 1977 Tour), Joop Zoetemelk, (Tested positive in the 1977 (pemoline), 1979 (steroids) and 1983 Tour de France (nandrolon, although that was retracted later), Laurent Fignon (In 1989 Fignon tested positive after a team time trial), Stephen Roche, According to an investigation in Italy into the practices of Francesco Conconi, Roche received EPO in 1993), Pedro Delgado, (Tested positive for probenecid in the 1988 Tour de France, although it was not illegal for cyclists at that time), and Bjarne Riis, (Confessed having used EPO in 1996), and entire Festina squad from the 1998 Tour. And as for Zabel, he confessed to EPO usage during the 1996 Tour, and the footage they show is him accepting the green jersey from that year (you can tell by the age of his son, who is like 18 now). In my opinion, if you were caught doping or confessed to it, you are open game. Also, for everyone complaining about Lance not being in the commercial, there are a LOT of other cyclists that could have been included as well who have been caught or confessed, so there's plenty to go around, no need to put it all on his shoulders. On the other hand, a commercial with all the dopers would leave little time for that dang Saab commercial, ugh.


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## DaveN (Jun 25, 2005)

Travis said:


> don't you guys have 30 second skip? In the PNW I wake up at 6am, fire up the tour on DVR, 30 sec skip * 5 for every commercial break and it wraps up on live format at 830am
> 
> I see the Saab logo fly buy but nary a noise and Jan in the Bianchi speed pedaling backwards is pretty interesting. Live TV is passe'


Great point! I watch the TdF about 45 mintues after the start of the broadcast. Using a 30 second skip works out to about the same finish time (including PAUSE for coffee refills...). I cannot imagine the pain of watching the repetition in the commercials. :mad2: seems appropriate as Saab is "*TURNING REPETITION INTO AGONY....*" OK, my words not theirs. But c'mon. There's a science to this which certainly made some group say, "Hey, we should use repetition until it hurts..." I'm sure the ad tested fine individually. But running it every other commercial break? I wonder how that tested? 

I could be missing the point entirely, but I sincerely hope that this turns out to be a failed advertising test, and we don't see that repeated (yep, ...a pun.) I've seen the same sort of thing on Japanese television many years ago. It must've been successful in that market, in that time. I hope it hasn't persisted.


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