# Phil Liggett's first stages of Alzheimers



## Evan Evans (Sep 14, 2004)

Has anyone else noticed that he is totally out of it this year? I mean more than the usual.


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## amflyer (Mar 4, 2004)

*dude...*

don't be baggin' on Phil, he's the shiznit.


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## magnolialover (Jun 2, 2004)

*No...*



Evan Evans said:


> Has anyone else noticed that he is totally out of it this year? I mean more than the usual.


People who haven't been listening to him call races for years on end would think this, but he remains the same as always really. And as the other poster said, Phil is the shiznit. Always will be. That man will be calling races until he's dead, and I'll be watching.


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## OnTheRivet (Sep 3, 2004)

magnolialover said:


> People who haven't been listening to him call races for years on end would think this, but he remains the same as always really. And as the other poster said, Phil is the shiznit. Always will be. That man will be calling races until he's dead, and I'll be watching.


I don't know, he has been screwing up more than normal. I have some early tour of Ireland stuff and he's much tighter, few mistakes. He's getting older, oh well, still the best in the biz.


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## Francis Cebedo (Aug 1, 2001)

overly critical of you imho.

fc


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## SilasCL (Jun 14, 2004)

Evan Evans said:


> Has anyone else noticed that he is totally out of it this year? I mean more than the usual.


My girlfriend, who watches 5-10 hours of racing per year, knew that Boonen was passing McEwen in the TT, not whatever weird thing Phil said. He still does a spectacular job recognizing riders from their style and height/weight out on the road.

Silas


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## NJCiocc (May 7, 2005)

I wouldn't joke about Alzheimers, it may be in your future.

Though you may not know it, if it happens


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## hairscrambled (Nov 18, 2004)

NJCiocc said:


> I wouldn't joke about Alzheimers, it may be in your future.
> 
> Though you may not know it, if it happens


The best part is that you can hide your own Easter eggs.


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## rule (Dec 2, 2004)

Tough day for Phil today, no doubt. He was struggling. Still the goods though.


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## T-shirt (Aug 15, 2004)

Evan Evans said:


> Has anyone else noticed that he is totally out of it this year? I mean more than the usual.


 
Don't worry. I think that this year Phil is going to pull out something special. 

Maybe you will like tomorrow better (rest day), OLN will have a wrap up of the week. Phil will probably do some of his great, reflective poetic journalism then. That's what I am used to from him, since for years I've only been able to watch the once-a-week coverage on CBS (or was it ABC?). He's inspiring.


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## zero85ZEN (Oct 11, 2002)

*Anyone whose ever heard....*

....Phil's call of the 1992 Milano-San Remo will know that Phil is the greatest ever of English cycling commentators/announcers. Best part, Phil going apoplectic shouting:

"I CAN'T BELIEVE IT! KELLY'S CLOSED THE GAP! HE'S CLOSED THE GAP! He really must have taken some risks on the decent (of the Poggio)...Argentine's heart must have hit his boots just now when he saw who was on his wheel!"

Best race I've ever seen (taped, of course...no darn decent cycling coverage here in the USA back in the pre Lance days). 
Kelly's last great win and Liggett was forever burned into my brain as THE voice of cycling from then on.


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## Mocat4 (Jul 7, 2006)

Evan Evans said:


> Has anyone else noticed that he is totally out of it this year? I mean more than the usual.


 
Whatchu talkin 'bout Willis? :skep: Don't be dissin my boy Phil. 
Yeah, he tends to misidentify riders (on a regular basis) but that's why Paul is there, to correct him. We love Phil because of his foibles, not inspite of them. 

'90's flashback sprint call: "AND IT'S DJAMOLODINE ABDUJAPOROV COMING DOWN THE STRAIGHTAWAY!!! ABDUJAPORVO! ABDUJAPOROV! A-B-D-U-J-A-P-O-R-O-V!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

No one does it better than Phil.


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## Cerddwyr (Jul 26, 2004)

hairscrambled said:


> The best part is that you can hide your own Easter eggs.


You can also crap your pants and have your own children changing your diaper. Maybe you should shut the @$#% up now.


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## dwells (Mar 30, 2005)

magnolialover said:


> People who haven't been listening to him call races for years on end would think this, but he remains the same as always really. And as the other poster said, Phil is the shiznit. Always will be. That man will be calling races until he's dead, and I'll be watching.


Even AFTER he's dead (if we're lucky)! He'll be digitally inserted into the broadcasts, and an electronic library of the 10 billion words he's spoken during cyling races will be used to create seamless commentary!


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## mrrun2fast (Apr 14, 2003)

His job is tough!

He has to say whatever is on the tip of his tongue. He has to do play-by-play nearly 4 hours. 

Mistakes happen.

I enjoy listening to Liggett.. especially the final sprint when he goes nuts.


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## carbonLORD (Aug 2, 2004)

mrrun2fast said:


> I enjoy listening to Liggett.. especially the final sprint when he goes nuts.


:thumbsup: Exactly. Phils great!


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## Bikeboy55 (Jun 1, 2006)

Phil must be among the most overrated commentators around. Regularly makes mistakes and contradicts himself. But that said it must be difficult describing something for hours at a time especially when not much is happening, like on the flat stages.
What cycling needs is a someone fresh, new and well researched to come and challenge his position. I thought that might be Sherwin but he slipping as well. Spends too much time trying to match Phil instead of just being sensible and measured.
The hunt is on (or should be).


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## Francis Cebedo (Aug 1, 2001)

Bikeboy55 said:


> Phil must be among the most overrated commentators around. Regularly makes mistakes and contradicts himself. But that said it must be difficult describing something for hours at a time especially when not much is happening, like on the flat stages.
> What cycling needs is a someone fresh, new and well researched to come and challenge his position. I thought that might be Sherwin but he slipping as well. Spends too much time trying to match Phil instead of just being sensible and measured.
> The hunt is on (or should be).


Ahh, now he's overrated. What planet you from?? The guy has built a great reputation over the past few decades. And many, many of us appreciate his work.

fc


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## Aussie Carl (Jan 11, 2006)

Phil is for cycling what Murray Walker was for Formula 1 - irreplaceable. Long may he reign.


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## Bikeboy55 (Jun 1, 2006)

The Murray Walker of cycling...Now I get it...... 

"Unless I'm very much mistaken... I am very much mistaken.” 
or my pesonal favourite...
“Now he must not go the wrong way round the circuit, and unless he can spin himself stationary through 360 degrees I fail to see how he can avoid doing so.”
or then there's.... 
“Prost can see Mansell in his earphones.”
Just what cycling needs, another Murray Walker.


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## Bikeboy55 (Jun 1, 2006)

but wait, there's more 

“Fantastic! There are four different cars filling the first four places.”
or
"With half the race gone, there is half the race still to go.”


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## OneGear (Aug 19, 2005)

maybe it's because he's been missing his blood transfusions or medications...


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## terzo rene (Mar 23, 2002)

Thanks to my dish I have watched Italian, Spanish and now French coverage and they all screw up and butcher pronunciation of people's names. It's live TV. Granted he does seem to need his eyes checked the last few years, but comparing Liggett to how he was on some old scripted video is a bit whacked.

My biggest complaint, beyond the endless Disco bias, is both he and Paul need to reach deeper into their bags of cliches and come up with something new. I actually prefer Trautwig/Roll more at this point because at least I haven't heard it all before, though the French is still better because I only understand about 1/10th of it so wouldn't know if I had heard it before or not.


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## harlond (May 30, 2005)

Bikeboy55 said:


> Phil must be among the most overrated commentators around.


After listening to the Eurosport play-by-play guy, I find this hard to believe. Don't mind Sean Kelly at all, and I admire his ability to field the zingers he gets from the play-by-play guys.


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## weltyed (Feb 6, 2004)

arent the tiny screw-ups part of the charm now?

when my wife and i watch the live coverage we like to find the tiny mistakes he makes. as pointed out, he is talking for over 4 hours on something that slowly progresses, so there are bound to be a few minor mistakes. and throw in all the little bumps oln makes him read. im surprised he is still sane. there is even sort of a nod to the audience in his timbre when he musses up. he knows he botched something, we know he botched something, and he knows we know he botched something. or when a rider does something completely foolish and he gives that college professor, "well, it looks as though he is gonna try to bridge the gap on his own. but with 4 minutes and a headwind, we know better than that, don't we." combine the little oln bumps with that in the third week and you have yourself a little treasure trove audio winking to the viewers. that's when its the best.

i loved it in the first week of the tour this year when we kept saying, "i think this break may have a chance" for every break still intact in the final 30k. paul would always say he was sure they would be caught, and you could tell by phil's voice he didn't believe his own words, but was just trying to keep the viewer's on edge. for instance, take the stage just before rest day. we all knew once the escape left the break he was gonna make it. phil didnt mention it too much, but paul was all over it.


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## toast (Jan 6, 2005)

I have a friend that worked on the ESPN2 coverage in the mid 90s when they did that 30 minute delayed daily recap. He said at that time it wasn't unusual to retape a couple of times when Phil messed up the names when he had already seen what he was commenting on.
So it seems he has always had some kind of mental block against saying the correct names. When I was newer to watching the races, he use to confuse me all the time. It certainly isn't new this year.


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## ttug (May 14, 2004)

*wtf??????*

Ya know, Phil has raced on a pro or semi pro level, commented on some of the greatest races ever and the only thing you are capable of doing is stting that the man has made a few errors. SO WHAT?

Look at the names he has to pronounce. My god, its not like these are common names in English, Petacchi, Valverde, Vinokourov Virenque, Beloki etc etc. THEN he has the stage names then its 2 or 3 languages, then its up half the night looking at the race etc etc etc.

What do you want? Let me guess, he gives excellent commentary, insights that are VOID in most if not all american sports coverage and oh yes, he knows cycling history. 

WHY not take a look at that real deal AL Trautwig. WOOOOO HOOO, what blazing whit that man has. The man believed in riders using a urine dispenser through their jersey and was SERIOUS enough to ask Bob Roll about the mechanics of such a device. I laughed until I got sick on that day. 

So, like it or not, he beat anything out there. If you dont like it, DONT WATCH IT. ut:


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## Dale Brigham (Aug 23, 2002)

*My pet Phil peeve: "He's never won a race..."*

I love Phil n' Paul, and I know folks in the cycling world who personally know them and say they are great guys. I am lucky to be able to watch and hear them broadcast the Tour.

But there's one little thing that Phil says that always frays my cables. It's when he says of a rider, "He's never won a race." It makes it sound like the rider is some palooka the team just picked up off the streets. Cyclists who make it to the TdF have typically won dozens of big races, just not necessarily pro races. The amateurs who eventually make it to the pro ranks generally start out as juniors and then ride as espoirs or elite amateurs, and they typically clobber everybody in their towns, counties, cantons, departments, provinces, states, countries, etc. at those levels as they work their way up to the pro ranks.

Saying they never won a race is akin to saying a Heisman trophy QB from a national champion collegiate football team newly entering the NFL has "never won a football game." It's technically true if qualified with the word "professional," but it's not reflective of the athlete's ability and experience. If Phil phrased it as "he's never won a professional race," at least that would be accurate.

Yesterday, Phil said it ("he's never won a race") about Sylvain Calzati, even though Calzati actually won the 2004 Tour de l'Avenir, which is open to professionals under 25 years of age. Somehow, Phil explained away that little victory (Calzati joined the list of TdA victors which includes Gimondi, Zoetemelk, Lemond, Indurain, Fignon, and some guy named Bruyneel), saying that Calzati won the 10-stage race without any individual stage victories. (Personally, I think that's the purist's approach to stage racing, but I'm just a bitter old hack who couldn't sprint worth a hoot). Jeez, give the kid some credit.

As we (and Phil) all know, the lousiest rider in the TdF is a darn formidable pro cyclist who is at the top level of his profession. They're all much better than most of us rabid fans (and certainly the casual viewer) can imagine.

Okay, I'll shut up now, get back on my meds, and get back in my cave.

Dale "Digging deep into my suitcase of nitpicking"


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## goose127 (Jun 9, 2004)

*OLN coverage and Phil*

I thought Phil had flown the coop during the prologue, which would be one of the easier days to call. He was all over the place. That being said, I think he has been just fine for the rest of the stages. Sure he is not the barometer of accuracy, but he IS the voice of cycling. 

That being said, i find that I actually prefer Roll and Trautwig (gulp) this year over Phil and Paul. Sometimes the dialogue and insights are better between these two than Phil and Paul. My only real complaint would be for Phil and Paul to discuss things a bit more, and maybe even be a bit more critical. The cliches are getting old. Stil the coverage of the tour and spring classics with this team is very good and I would hate to see it change.


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## snowman3 (Jul 20, 2002)

OnTheRivet said:


> I don't know, he has been screwing up more than normal. I have some early tour of Ireland stuff and he's much tighter, few mistakes. He's getting older, oh well, still the best in the biz.


I'd have to agree with both points, he's older and he's always made mistakes. I've only been following the tour for 6-7 years, so I'm more adept at picking out the mistakes each year. Having said that, I think he's been going downhill as well. He's just a little bit off this year and not quite as intuitive with the play-by-play.

The interesting thing is people are more passionate about Phil than LA. If anyone bags on Phil's present-day ability, people come out of the woodwork to defend his history and iconic status. Yes, Phill is iconic and will be calling the race after he dies. I look forward to it. Phil is so composed during the pre-race coverage. His stature and knowledge are incredible. He just gets a little crazy during the live coverage nowadays. So I think it's OK to admit he's lost a step w/o discrediting what he's meant to the fans or the sport.


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## sbrsport (Dec 26, 2005)

Ligget's fun to listen to, and I don't really mind when he makes mistakes, its part of the charm. He is kind of like Chick Hearn (Laker's legendary long time broadcaster) was in his later years, when he would talk about Shaq's first foul, and you would know it was his fourth, etc.

The best one this year was right before Leipheimer's (I think it was him) start in the TT, he said something about the 4:20 start time being a good time because "there is a lot of oxygen in the air" at that time. I could not stop laughing.


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## Mapei (Feb 3, 2004)

As much as I love Phil and Paul, and am beginning to tolerate Al and Bob, I just wish the commentators would shut up for 30 seconds every so often, and let us hear nothing more than race noise. If something important happens...such as some doomed rider momentarily going off the front...they can just tell us who that rider is and then shut up again. There's really no reason, other than obsessive-compulsiveness and tradition, for them to be perpetually gabbing. Maybe they could go off on a natural break every once in a while. Let the visuals do the talking.


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## OneGear (Aug 19, 2005)

sbrsport said:


> The best one this year was right before Leipheimer's (I think it was him) start in the TT, he said something about the 4:20 start time being a good time because "there is a lot of oxygen in the air" at that time. I could not stop laughing.


well he's right... when the temperature's hot its harder to breathe, when it's cooler theres less oxygen molecule movement etc. 

i like phil, he gets stuff wrong but it's ok as long as he clears it up. its not easy being a commentator.


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## Dale Brigham (Aug 23, 2002)

*Amen, bro!*



Mapei Roida said:


> As much as I love Phil and Paul, and am beginning to tolerate Al and Bob, I just wish the commentators would shut up for 30 seconds every so often, and let us hear nothing more than race noise. If something important happens...such as some doomed rider momentarily going off the front...they can just tell us who that rider is and then shut up again. There's really no reason, other than obsessive-compulsiveness and tradition, for them to be perpetually gabbing. Maybe they could go off on a natural break every once in a while. Let the visuals do the talking.


I watched the live show last Friday morning with a special interest in part of the stage route that happened to be the same roads as I have ridden during Paris-Brest-Paris. Since there was only 12 km of coinciding route, I wanted to see if I could recognize some landmarks (there's a great castle at Ambrieres-les-Vallees) on the route during a brief time window.

Well, the coverage is so ADD choppy and disjointed that the actual race (meaning camera on the riders) is only a short few seconds between shilling for OLN (soon to be "Versus" -- versus what, I ask?) programs, repetitive "features," and commercial breaks. If you didn't know it, you'd hardly realize that there is a bike race going on.

Why can't they just show the dadgum race and make a few comments as needed. I mean, anybody watching on a Friday morning is de facto a "fan" and not a casual viewer. I just want to see the sights and hear the sounds for awhile.

By the way, they did show a few seconds of helicopter shots of the castle. I can die happy now.

Dale


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## Sub (Feb 13, 2004)

This happens in all sports. I don't think most people realize everything a commentator is trying to stay up on. Maybe they got some producer yacking in their ear about some promo they got to spout about etc. i see it all the time in the NFL, announder says so and so did something and they are clearly blind. Phil is great, corrects himself all the time and apologizes for it. If anything, I would say Sherwin can get a little annoying at times. Why can't he just explain things simply? I'm always wondering if Sherwin and Roll have some type of wager going as to who can use the biggest words each day which they more often than not fumble through. I stil enjoy all of them though and wouldn't want to change a thing. Even bad cycling coverage is better than 99% of what is on tv.


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## Mocat4 (Jul 7, 2006)

Sub said:


> I would say Sherwin can get a little annoying at times. Why can't he just explain things simply? I'm always wondering if Sherwin and Roll have some type of wager going as to who can use the biggest words each day which they more often than not fumble through.


This is a new one, someone complaining that Bobke is *too* complicated! You want it simpler, we complain that it's been dumbed down too much, oh when will this tug-of-war of wills ever end! :cryin: :cryin: :cryin: 

It's amazing what we find time to complain about......announcers, commercials, boring flat stages, prize giveaways......in the time it takes us to type "Phil Liggott is senile" we could've been out finding the cure to cancer or eliminating world hunger, there's 3 seconds of your life you're never gettin' back......ooops, and I just wasted 3 seconds of mine typing that....aaack, there goes another 3....

C'mon, let's focus on what reallly matters people!! :incazzato: .............so, do you think Phil should sit on Paul's left or his right? cuz you know, sticking him all the way on the end like that makes him seem like he's less important than Paul, then again maybe they're saving the best for last, and what kind of conditioner do you think he uses? His hair is looking mighty soft and shiny these days, dont cha think?....


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## Fogdweller (Mar 26, 2004)

rule said:


> Tough day for Phil today, no doubt. He was struggling. Still the goods though.


This is a good point. Everyone knows that Phil always does better in the mountains. Tomorrow will be his day to shine...


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## bridges (Jun 20, 2005)

_Why can't they just show the dadgum race and make a few comments as needed.... I just want to see the sights and hear the sounds for awhile.
Dale_


*HEAR HEAR!!!! WELL SAID!!!!*

I really enjoy Phil's commentary and his amazing ability to call those sprints. I also agree that Paul can be annoying---both Phil and Paul are so competitive on air---it's a distraction, but kind of funny. Bobke is just awesome to be on there and his under-the-radar jokes kill me. Mostly, I'd prefer to see more racing. I remeber once in the 70's there was a Miami Dolphins football game that aired with absolutely no commentary---I don't hink it went over so well, though....anyone else remember that?


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## Evan Evans (Sep 14, 2004)

*Lance lost his manhood!*

Maybe Phil is blood doping with the rest of the peloton? One of Phil & Pauls greatest moments in Tour history is just After Armstrong & Mayo went down due to the hand bag. Lance slipped of the pedal doing down on the top tube & Paul in his glory said " I think Lance lost his manhood on that one". That comment seems to be edited out of all the dvd versions.
I can't believe he said that.


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## rule (Dec 2, 2004)

Phil (and Paul) were much better today. I thought that they added a lot to a stage that would have been pretty hard to follow otherwise because of all the guys getting shelled and the peloton spreading out like it did.

I noticed that they pointed out several times that they weren't getting all the information that they typically do from race radio and from the live feeds to help them understand where the riders they were looking at were along the course. That would explain for me a lot of what Phil has been struggling with. It sounded to me like they are tired of sounded like idiots and have started to explain why it has been difficult for them to comment accurately at times when the camera jumps during the stages.


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## WrongBikeFred (Oct 19, 2005)

"Phil must be among the most overrated commentators around"

Have you ever listened to the commentators OLN sometimes digs up to cover events in the US or other non-pro tour races? They have NO enthusiasm for the sport. They sound less alive than golf commentators. My wife does not cycle, but she has a harder time waiting to watch the next race or next stage than I do, and that is due to both Phil and Paul. They love the sport and stay excited for the whole race, no matter how long that is. Also the knowledge of cycling history they bring with them adds to the excitement of the race. It may bother some, but not everyone has been following cycling for the past 30 years. If you don't like Phil, turn off the sound and put on some music but please stop your complaining, because, Lance, aside, they are the reason you get to watch in the first place. Do you think the other cycling commentators OLN uses in the US (I'm not talking about Bob, and Al is a general commentator for alot of sports, not just cycling) races could keep enough NON-CYCLISTS intrested enough to stay awake, much less keep OLN's ratings up enough ensure continued coverage.


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## ttug (May 14, 2004)

*yes*



WrongBikeFred said:


> "Phil must be among the most overrated commentators around"
> 
> Have you ever listened to the commentators OLN sometimes digs up to cover events in the US or other non-pro tour races? They have NO enthusiasm for the sport. They sound less alive than golf commentators. My wife does not cycle, but she has a harder time waiting to watch the next race or next stage than I do, and that is due to both Phil and Paul. They love the sport and stay excited for the whole race, no matter how long that is. Also the knowledge of cycling history they bring with them adds to the excitement of the race. It may bother some, but not everyone has been following cycling for the past 30 years. If you don't like Phil, turn off the sound and put on some music but please stop your complaining, because, Lance, aside, they are the reason you get to watch in the first place. Do you think the other cycling commentators OLN uses in the US (I'm not talking about Bob, and Al is a general commentator for alot of sports, not just cycling) races could keep enough NON-CYCLISTS intrested enough to stay awake, much less keep OLN's ratings up enough ensure continued coverage.


Thank God someone finally said it.

However, I wonder how sublime it would be if Sam Donaldson was covering a bunch print finish. Oh look! Time to floss the cat.........Dead spot on, the commentary brings the sport live. Watch the 99 TDF stage 90 when Lance attacks, wow, great commentary and really a balls on accurate assessment of the situation. Better than the knee slapping, whoooo weee look at him go we had on the local news. I hated that local news team. They could just go f&*k their sisters for all I cared.


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## richwolf (Dec 8, 2004)

All the mistakes are pre set up. What he is really trying to do is to make fans feel that they are really smarter than he is.:idea: 
For example the first day in the mountains when he insisted the front two break away riders should wait for Landeluz (spelling?). I thought, how stupid would that be? Two guys can't get away from one guy? Then if you let him into the fold you cut your chances for a win and time bonuses.
I understand what Phil is and I use to complain about him too, but that English accent goes a long way and the comfort level of listening to him and Paul are great.


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