# What's Hincapie's legacy?



## Mike T. (Feb 3, 2004)

In light of Hincapie's doping admission, what will his legacy be? George was probably the #1 loved USA pro rider and one of the most respected in the world. So how will he be remembered? Is he now reduced to a complete nothing?

Just think of the opportunities that would have been open to him in his retirement. Are all his wins and placings now just a sham?

The most jolting quote that I read was that when Lance was trashing Betsy and Frankie, George stood by and said nothing. He could have saved them but he didn't.

What do you think now about George?


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## YamaDan (Aug 28, 2012)

It's funny, I actually feel worse about GH than Lance. He came out with his PR the day I got the Hincapie tribute magazine in the mail. So I looked at the tribute to him as a huge slap in the face. 

Are they taking away his records? His tours? No... So he pleaed out to a slap on the wrist to rat out a team and a guy who helped get him to where he is now. 

I don't really have any warm fuzzies for George.


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## sir duke (Mar 24, 2006)

He cheated and helped others to cheat, came out with the bare minimum in terms of an apology and explanation, showing a minimal amount of contrition, and went off to play with his Ferrari. Lance's partner in scumbaggery.


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## Doctor Falsetti (Sep 24, 2010)

Mike T. said:


> The most jolting quote that I read was that when Lance was trashing Betsy and Frankie, George stood by and said nothing. He could have saved them but he didn't.


Oh, he said something. Wrote Frankie an nasty email.Such a classy guy, harassing an old friend because he DIDN'T lie. 

In the end though I doubt he sustains much damage.


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## pretender (Sep 18, 2007)

I never understood why he was so beloved. In interviews he seemed a bit dull and boring. His "bad luck" at Paris-Roubaix struck me as bad judgement.


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## spade2you (May 12, 2009)

Meh. Just meh.


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## YamaDan (Aug 28, 2012)

spade2you said:


> Meh. Just meh.


EXACTALLY!!:thumbsup:


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## Mike T. (Feb 3, 2004)

pretender said:


> I never understood why he was so beloved. In interviews he seemed a bit dull and boring. His "bad luck" at Paris-Roubaix struck me as bad judgement.


Yeah he was a terrible speaker and very boring.


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## Ventruck (Mar 9, 2009)

Dirty cheating fraud tbqh.


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## thehook (Mar 14, 2006)

A doper.........Game Over.............Just like Levi.


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## Fireform (Dec 15, 2005)

Wasn't he stripped of most of his results? That's a pretty heavy blow. 

He was as the Miami Grand Fondo last weekend and was almost ignored.


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## Bluenote (Oct 28, 2012)

"Legacy" is a hard thing. It's just opinion.
I think before he had that 'respected but always the brides maid.' In some ways you respected him for never quite winning the big one, but not becoming bitter.

Now? I think throwing Frankie, Betsy, David Walsh, etc.., under the bus undermines that respect. He no longer seems like the guy who did it the right way. If the strip he results, that also strips his record tdf completions.


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## moonmoth (Nov 8, 2008)

GH will soon be mostly forgotten, remembered only in trivia contests for TdF finishes.

Mrs. Hincapie will not be forgotten, though,


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## Blue Sugar (Jun 14, 2005)

I think he was liked because he was a nice guy, and maybe came accross as a bit of a man-child. I think his reputation will not suffer anywhere near as badly as Lance's did, and that's because people like him. People will be a lot more likely to grant him the benefit of the doubt. I think he did what he had to do to be competitive. He wasn't one of the instigators but was forced, literally perhaps, to follow. He made a lot of money riding for Postal and I think it's become clear that if you wanted to ride for Postal you had to dope. 

I sometimes wonder if this is really about drugs or just punishing Lance for being such and obnoxious and disrespectful a-hole.


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## bayAreaDude (Apr 13, 2012)

Eater


Blue Sugar said:


> I think he was liked because he was a nice guy, and maybe came accross as a bit of a man-child. I think his reputation will not suffer anywhere near as badly as Lance's did, and that's because people like him. People will be a lot more likely to grant him the benefit of the doubt. I think he did what he had to do to be competitive. He wasn't one of the instigators but was forced, literally perhaps, to follow. He made a lot of money riding for Postal and I think it's become clear that if you wanted to ride for Postal you had to dope.
> 
> I sometimes wonder if this is really about drugs or just punishing Lance for being such and obnoxious and disrespectful a-hole.


I don't like him because he's a cheat.


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## spade2you (May 12, 2009)

bayAreaDude said:


> I don't like him because he's a cheat.


You must hate pro cycling.


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## bayAreaDude (Apr 13, 2012)

spade2you said:


> You must hate pro cycling.


No, just the cheaters. I think there are a few young clean riders - TJ, Sagan, maybe Hesjedal.

Most of the clean guys were elbowed out of the sport by cheats like Hincapie so I expect to see more clean riders in the future and look forward to watching them.


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## RRRoubaix (Aug 27, 2008)

bayAreaDude said:


> No, just the cheaters. I think there are a few young clean riders - TJ, Sagan, maybe Hesjedal.
> 
> Most of the clean guys were elbowed out of the sport by cheats like Hincapie so I expect to see more clean riders in the future and look forward to watching them.


Not as long as McQuaid and Verbruggen are around you won't.


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## Local Hero (Jul 8, 2010)

Merchandise.


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## spade2you (May 12, 2009)

bayAreaDude said:


> No, just the cheaters. I think there are a few young clean riders - TJ, Sagan, maybe Hesjedal.
> 
> Most of the clean guys were elbowed out of the sport by cheats like Hincapie so I expect to see more clean riders in the future and look forward to watching them.


Who did Ryder ride for in his early days?


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## YamaDan (Aug 28, 2012)

spade2you said:


> Who did Ryder ride for in his early days?


He was a mountain biker for a while..he actually won the race that Lance was in at Mount Snow...98 if I remember correctally. Lance came up to him after the race and said I "need you pulling for me at the tour!" 

I hold little hope that he's clean.


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## spade2you (May 12, 2009)

YamaDan said:


> He was a mountain biker for a while..he actually won the race that Lance was in at Mount Snow...98 if I remember correctally. Lance came up to him after the race and said I "need you pulling for me at the tour!"
> 
> I hold little hope that he's clean.


He was ex Discovery.


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## brady1 (Aug 18, 2011)

Mike T. said:


> In light of Hincapie's doping admission, what will his legacy be? George was probably the #1 loved USA pro rider and one of the most respected in the world. So how will he be remembered? Is he now reduced to a complete nothing?
> 
> Just think of the opportunities that would have been open to him in his retirement. Are all his wins and placings now just a sham?
> 
> ...


Doper. For me at least.

It seems easy to admit that you cheated then conveniently retire to your mansion with your trophy wife and piles of cash. Clearly, he never would have said anything if it wasn't for the investigation. 

And yeah, the issue with the Andreus. Pathetic.

I did see his last race in Colorado this year. I'm glad I didn't waste the time trying to get his autograph or shake his hand.


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## King Arthur (Nov 13, 2009)

Won't buy his clothing line, won't go to his Grand Fondo. Will not support anything he does, that's how to get the message across.


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## spade2you (May 12, 2009)

brady1 said:


> Doper. For me at least.
> 
> It seems easy to admit that you cheated then conveniently retire to your mansion with your trophy wife and piles of cash. Clearly, he never would have said anything if it wasn't for the investigation.
> 
> ...


How many Spanish or Italian riders that never got caught do you think will publicly admit doping? Despite being caught, Pantani and Contador denied ever doping. Big Mig isn't going to hurry and cleanse his conscience, either. In fact, I highly doubt he'll ever confess and Spain would NEVER pull a move like that on one of their own.


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## Fireform (Dec 15, 2005)

spade2you said:


> How many Spanish or Italian riders that never got caught do you think will publicly admit doping? Despite being caught, Pantani and Contador denied ever doping. Big Mig isn't going to hurry and cleanse his conscience, either. In fact, I highly doubt he'll ever confess and Spain would NEVER pull a move like that on one of their own.


So a cheater is fine if he's your cheater? You think Spain has the right attitude?


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## spade2you (May 12, 2009)

Fireform said:


> So a cheater is fine if he's your cheater? You think Spain has the right attitude?


Not at all. We're just chewing up guys like Big George while Big Mig gets to sit pretty and I'm sure Big Mig and Spain are perfectly ok with that. Go ahead, give away our victories. Take the high road. Good for us. Fat chance they'll hold themselves to that same standard. They probably think we're idiots for doing such.


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## brady1 (Aug 18, 2011)

spade2you said:


> How many Spanish or Italian riders that never got caught do you think will publicly admit doping? Despite being caught, Pantani and Contador denied ever doping. Big Mig isn't going to hurry and cleanse his conscience, either. In fact, I highly doubt he'll ever confess and Spain would NEVER pull a move like that on one of their own.


I don't claim to be a fan of either of those guys.


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## stevesbike (Jun 3, 2002)

Hincapie should be remembered as Lance's lapdog, the not-so-bright mule/gopher/stooge who obeyed Lance's every order because he was too dim to understand Lance's 'friendship' was merely Machiavellian manipulation.


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## ultimobici (Jul 16, 2005)

stevesbike said:


> Hincapie should be remembered as Lance's lapdog, the not-so-bright mule/gopher/stooge who obeyed Lance's every order because he was too dim to understand Lance's 'friendship' was merely Machiavellian manipulation.


+100 Exactly!


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## RRRoubaix (Aug 27, 2008)

spade2you said:


> Not at all. We're just chewing up guys like Big George while Big Mig gets to sit pretty and I'm sure Big Mig and Spain are perfectly ok with that. Go ahead, give away our victories. Take the high road. Good for us. Fat chance they'll hold themselves to that same standard. They probably think we're idiots for doing such.


Sadly, I think I agree. Unless there's huuuuge changes at the top (which I don't have much faith will happen), this isn't going to "fix" anything other than erase most American victories from the last 15 years down the drain. Yay us.
"Team America, **** YEAH!"


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## Mike T. (Feb 3, 2004)

stevesbike said:


> Hincapie should be remembered as Lance's lapdog, the not-so-bright mule/gopher/stooge who obeyed Lance's every order because he was too dim to understand Lance's 'friendship' was merely Machiavellian manipulation.


^^^ This. If any post deserves rep it's this one.


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## spade2you (May 12, 2009)

brady1 said:


> I don't claim to be a fan of either of those guys.


By those standards, there aren't too many clean hands during that era, before, or after.


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## Doctor Falsetti (Sep 24, 2010)

spade2you said:


> Not at all. We're just chewing up guys like Big George while Big Mig gets to sit pretty and I'm sure Big Mig and Spain are perfectly ok with that. Go ahead, give away our victories. Take the high road. Good for us. Fat chance they'll hold themselves to that same standard. They probably think we're idiots for doing such.


....ignoring the fact that Mig retired 10 years prior to the UCI signing the WADA code. 

While it is fun for some to deflect and talk about riders from 20 years ago most understand that there is zero process in place to do this......but hey, it is fun to pretend :thumbsup:

We also shouldn't pretend that it is only American riders who have been sanctioned. Valverde, Contador, Mayo, Beltran, along with Spanish doctors, Celya, Marti, del Moral. Italy sanctioned Basso, Caucchioli, Scarponi, Pozzato, Pellizotti, all without a positive test. This is list is about to grow significantly with the Padua investigation.


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## moonmoth (Nov 8, 2008)

I can't even see GH's clothing company lasting for long. Will be interesting to see if BMC stays committed to it this upcoming year.


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## spade2you (May 12, 2009)

Doctor Falsetti said:


> ....ignoring the fact that Mig retired 10 years prior to the UCI signing the WADA code.


Bravo, so it makes it ok! :thumbsup: And you accuse us of trolling. 

This is exactly why I don't believe in holding ourselves to a higher standard. Only schmucks do that.


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## ultimobici (Jul 16, 2005)

spade2you said:


> Bravo, so it makes it ok! :thumbsup: And you accuse us of trolling.
> 
> This is exactly why I don't believe in holding ourselves to a higher standard. Only schmucks do that.


Show me the evidence, however circumstantial, that Indurain had the UCI looking out for him. Armstrong, Tialwind & USAC took doping to a whole new level. They effectively Americanised it. Go USA! One of the smallest cycling nations has had a disproportionately bad effect on cycling.


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## spade2you (May 12, 2009)

ultimobici said:


> Show me the evidence, however circumstantial, that Indurain had the UCI looking out for him. Armstrong, Tialwind & USAC took doping to a whole new level. They effectively Americanised it. Go USA! One of the smallest cycling nations has had a disproportionately bad effect on cycling.


Go USA, let's pretend Festina, TVM, Kelme, T-Mobile., etc didn't happen.


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## aclinjury (Sep 12, 2011)

stevesbike said:


> Hincapie should be remembered as Lance's lapdog, the not-so-bright mule/gopher/stooge who obeyed Lance's every order because he was too dim to understand Lance's 'friendship' was merely Machiavellian manipulation.


+1. Repped for a concise summary.


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## spade2you (May 12, 2009)

So, no redemption for being a workhorse for High Road or BMC?


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## ultimobici (Jul 16, 2005)

spade2you said:


> Go USA, let's pretend Festina, TVM, Kelme, T-Mobile., etc didn't happen.


TVM & Festina yielded prison sentences & criminal records for those involved.

Cycling dope cheats sentenced - CNN

Festina trial ends with fines and a warning | The Guardian | guardian.co.uk

Operation Puerto was a disappointment mainly due to the lack of a crime under Spanish law and a lot of pressure from Football & Tennis. 

Yet in the US the criminal process was halted due to lack of political will, despite masses of evidence gathered over the years as well as testimony that was still being heard by the investigators.


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## aclinjury (Sep 12, 2011)

spade2you said:


> Go USA, let's pretend Festina, TVM, Kelme, T-Mobile., etc didn't happen.


American riders cheat.
Euro riders cheat.

The difference? The Americans have cleansed their house. Root out most of the bad seeds. But it did take the biggest doping fraud in the history of sport for the Americans to clean their own house. The Postal/LA doping scheme bigger than Festina. Real Americans (aka not the fanboys) should be proud of this internal house purging. It makes us look good (in a bad situation).

However, as of right now, the Euros are still a bunch of cronies. The exception here is the French. Give the French credit for cleaning their house too, and they have laws there to criminalize dopers. But for the rest of the other major Euro players.. Spain, Italy, Belgium, Germany, UK,.. I have not much faith in them policing themselves, especially the SPANISH.


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## spade2you (May 12, 2009)

ultimobici said:


> TVM & Festina yielded prison sentences & criminal records for those involved.
> 
> Cycling dope cheats sentenced - CNN
> 
> ...


Speaking of Puerto, isn't it a tad too convenient that Valverde was allowed to be sentenced after the '09 Vuelta and keep his title or is he another Saint Basso type?


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## ultimobici (Jul 16, 2005)

aclinjury said:


> American riders cheat.
> Euro riders cheat.
> 
> The difference? The Americans have cleansed their house. Root out most of the bad seeds. But it did take the biggest doping fraud in the history of sport for the Americans to clean their own house. The Postal/LA doping scheme bigger than Festina. Real Americans (aka not the fanboys) should be proud of this internal house purging. It makes us look good (in a bad situation).
> ...


The UK? How do you equate us with the rest of Europe? Any evidence? Please don't cite any of the Sky/Leinders stuff or Yates as that is not evidence of anything.


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## spade2you (May 12, 2009)

RRRoubaix said:


> Sadly, I think I agree. Unless there's huuuuge changes at the top (which I don't have much faith will happen), this isn't going to "fix" anything other than erase most American victories from the last 15 years down the drain. Yay us.
> "Team America, **** YEAH!"


I would suspect that more than a few share this thought. It would be unpopular/trolling to do so. 

My mentality is kinda based outside of cycling. A few years back, a former manager convinced me that I'd get a nice raise if I did this, that, and the other thing. I did all that and then some. I got the same job eval as the year before, despite doing considerably more work. They expressed a little disappointment because they held me to a higher standard and I was denied a raise. They assured me that holding me to a higher standard was the utmost compliment and that I should continue going the extra mile consistently and I _might_ get a raise next time. I didn't fall for that the 2nd time and honest to goodness, I moved that extra effort to the bike. Much more rewarding.

I also have a relative in one of the Stans in the military. His squad took heavy fire from a mosque. Holding themselves to a higher standard, they didn't engage the enemy, who had to be laughing at that policy and lived to fight another day while continuing to take pot shots at them while his squad retreated. I have no desire for this to be moved to PO, but that's a nice example of taking the high road.


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## Doctor Falsetti (Sep 24, 2010)

spade2you said:


> Bravo, so it makes it ok! :thumbsup: And you accuse us of trolling.
> 
> This is exactly why I don't believe in holding ourselves to a higher standard. Only schmucks do that.


You are welcome to ignore the rules of the sport to pursue vendettas but I will not. There are no rules that would allow for the sanctioning of Indurain. None. Any sanction could easily be appealed to CAS.

There are established rules that clearly allow for Armstrong, Bruyneel, Marti, Celya, Ferrari, and Del Moral to be sanctioned. Please show me how these rules apply to Indurain?


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## spade2you (May 12, 2009)

Doctor Falsetti said:


> You are welcome to ignore the rules of the sport to pursue vendettas but I will not. There are no rules that would allow for the sanctioning of Indurain. None. Any sanction could easily be appealed to CAS.
> 
> There are established rules that clearly allow for Armstrong, Bruyneel, Marti, Celya, Ferrari, and Del Moral to be sanctioned. Please show me how these rules apply to Indurain?


Please explain to _us_ why rules shouldn't apply to Indurain given that he was probably the father of EPO use and probably told good 'ol Lance how to use it. Lance was suspect for winning 7 in a row. Big Mig won 7 grand tours in 5 years. True colors are beginning to show. ...yeah, I know REPORTED.


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## asgelle (Apr 21, 2003)

spade2you said:


> Please explain to _us_ why rules shouldn't apply to Indurain ...


Ex post facto law - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


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## spade2you (May 12, 2009)

asgelle said:


> Ex post facto law - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


There were indeed no laws about EPO during that time. However, blood doping had been against the rules several years prior to that. It may not be a transfusion, but it's still blood doping nonetheless.


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## Doctor Falsetti (Sep 24, 2010)

spade2you said:


> Please explain to _us_ why rules shouldn't apply to Indurain given that he was probably the father of EPO use and probably told good 'ol Lance how to use it. Lance was suspect for winning 7 in a row. Big Mig won 7 grand tours in 5 years. True colors are beginning to show. ...yeah, I know REPORTED.


What rules? 

When did Indurain sign the WADA code? Test positive? Have irregular blood values? Have over a dozen witnesses testify under oath about his doping?

True colors


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## JohnnyG (Nov 22, 2011)

stevesbike said:


> Hincapie should be remembered as Lance's lapdog, the not-so-bright mule/gopher/stooge who obeyed Lance's every order because he was too dim to understand Lance's 'friendship' was merely Machiavellian manipulation.


. Spot on Bro !!! 100% correct !!! Enjoy your + rep :thumbsup: There are plenty of countries who take doping very serious. Like France - jail time, Italy - Note they went after Marco P, Germany - didn't see Jan Ullrich get a pass & free ride.


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## asgelle (Apr 21, 2003)

spade2you said:


> There were indeed no laws about EPO during that time. However, blood doping had been against the rules several years prior to that. It may not be a transfusion, but it's still blood doping nonetheless.


I see you totally miss the point.


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## spade2you (May 12, 2009)

Doctor Falsetti said:


> What rules?
> 
> When did Indurain sign the WADA code? Test positive? Have irregular blood values? Have over a dozen witnesses testify under oath about his doping?
> 
> True colors


Welp, if EPO were technically allowed, shouldn't he be able to confess without consequence? Why hasn't he done so? Rominger confessed. 

Just because nobody has testified doesn't mean he's innocent.


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## mariomal99 (Mar 4, 2012)

LOL


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## Bluenote (Oct 28, 2012)

Doctor Falsetti said:


> ....ignoring the fact that Mig retired 10 years prior to the UCI signing the WADA code.
> 
> While it is fun for some to deflect and talk about riders from 20 years ago most understand that there is zero process in place to do this......but hey, it is fun to pretend :thumbsup:
> 
> We also shouldn't pretend that it is only American riders who have been sanctioned. Valverde, Contador, Mayo, Beltran, along with Spanish doctors, Celya, Marti, del Moral. Italy sanctioned Basso, Caucchioli, Scarponi, Pozzato, Pellizotti, all without a positive test. This is list is about to grow significantly with the Padua investigation.


Head of nail, meet hammer.
I think it's a solid point the anti-doping authorities work in the real world, not a perfect world. There are lots of guys out there who avoided sanction. Will to prosecute is some of it, but evidence plays a part. You have to admit, Armstrong doped brazenly and left on awful long trail of evidence.


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## Doctor Falsetti (Sep 24, 2010)

spade2you said:


> Welp, if EPO were technically allowed, shouldn't he be able to confess without consequence? Why hasn't he done so? Rominger confessed.
> 
> Just because nobody has testified doesn't mean he's innocent.


You are confused, nobody is arguing his innocence. You are asking why he is not stripped. There is no process in place that could strip him. 

EPO was always against the rules, first as under "Methods" and later specifically.


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## brady1 (Aug 18, 2011)

spade2you said:


> So, no redemption for being a workhorse for High Road or BMC?


Rdemption for what? Doing a job he was paid to do? Nope. No redemption. 

Enjoy your millions, GH.


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## The Tedinator (Mar 12, 2004)

brady1 said:


> Rdemption for what? Doing a job he was paid to do? Nope. No redemption.
> 
> Enjoy your millions, GH.


Sadly, I am sure he will.


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## Local Hero (Jul 8, 2010)

Don't worry guys. I just anonymously reported Indurian to USADA.


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## ultimobici (Jul 16, 2005)

Local Hero said:


> Don't worry guys. I just anonymously reported Indurian to USADA.


Problem is there is SFA that USADA, or anyone else for that matter, can do. The SOL ran out in 2006 and, unless he has a massive change of character and stages a comeback, as such is untouchable.


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## asgelle (Apr 21, 2003)

Local Hero said:


> Don't worry guys. I just anonymously reported Indurian to USADA.


You should have read the WADA code. Non-analytic cases are handled by the national ADA under which the athlete holds a license. In this case you made two mistakes. First, Indurain does not hold a license in a WADA sport; second, when he did it was a Spanish, not U.S. one.


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## Local Hero (Jul 8, 2010)

asgelle said:


> You should have read the WADA code. Non-analytic cases are handled by the national ADA under which the athlete holds a license. In this case you made two mistakes. First, Indurain does not hold a license in a WADA sport; second, when he did it was a Spanish, not U.S. one.


you mean they wont show up at his next race to test him?


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## Rip Van Cycle (Jun 11, 2012)

spade2you said:


> ...a nice example of taking the high road.





RRRoubaix said:


> "Team America, **** YEAH!"


More like "Team America, ****** _ourselves_, YEAH!"


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## ultimobici (Jul 16, 2005)

Local Hero said:


> you mean they wont show up at his next race to test him?


Unlike Armstrong, Indurain and many other riders of his era had the good grace to retire and stay retired. Because their egos weren't overinflated they also had the sense to stay retired. If Armstrong had done the same he'd likely still be a seven time winner.


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## burgrat (Nov 18, 2005)

I will always remember his legs. Ugghhhh...


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## David Loving (Jun 13, 2008)

with all that doping, there's got to be a clot somewhere in his future.


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## serious (May 2, 2006)

spade2you: *Not at all. We're just chewing up guys like Big George while Big Mig gets to sit pretty and I'm sure Big Mig and Spain are perfectly ok with that. Go ahead, give away our victories. Take the high road. Good for us. Fat chance they'll hold themselves to that same standard. They probably think we're idiots for doing such. *

I also agree with this. All this indignation with doping is strange in a sport such as pro cycling. Odds are good that you won't find a single elite racer that never doped. You will only find those who never got caught.  By elite racers I mean the guys that win (or podium) the big stage races.


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## spade2you (May 12, 2009)

serious said:


> I also agree with this. All this indignation with doping is strange in a sport such as pro cycling. Odds are good that you won't find a single elite racer that never doped. You will only find those who never got caught.  By elite racers I mean the guys that win (or podium) the big stage races.


I would hope someone like Moncoutie didn't dope, but my world won't end if he did. Tragic that it got so out of hand. Really, we should probably erase Big Mig through Contador, leaving a bigger hole than both World Wars.


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## spade2you (May 12, 2009)

burgrat said:


> I will always remember his legs. Ugghhhh...


Crikey! It looks like has some intestines up in there!


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## cyclebycle (Nov 19, 2012)

moonmoth said:


> I can't even see GH's clothing company lasting for long. Will be interesting to see if BMC stays committed to it this upcoming year.


Looking at the reviews his stuff has been getting on realcycling/backcountry/chainlove I'd say they're not doing well in the quality department.


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## DIRT BOY (Aug 22, 2002)

Doper and rode with cycling's biggest alleged doper, sellout, Rat, etc....

Overall good guy if you overlook the above stuff.


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## DIRT BOY (Aug 22, 2002)

sir duke said:


> He cheated and helped others to cheat, came out with the bare minimum in terms of an apology and explanation, showing a minimal amount of contrition, and went off to play with his Ferrari. Lance's partner in scumbaggery.


Well said!


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## spade2you (May 12, 2009)

cyclebycle said:


> Looking at the reviews his stuff has been getting on realcycling/backcountry/chainlove I'd say they're not doing well in the quality department.


Some of my friends use Hincapie for their club kits. Very positive reviews. I have a duffel bag because I liked the layout.


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## american psycho (Jul 21, 2005)

sad sack doper who broke an aluminum steerer tube and crashed bad at Paris-Roubaix, and who scabbed a TDF stage win from some Spanish guy (Oscar Pereiro) who was also doped.


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## nOOky (Mar 20, 2009)

I have one Hincapie kit, I like it a lot. As for the man, well, whatever. I'm not going to get too excited about doping in the pro cycling ranks. Heard some ESPN analyst bagging on cyclists the other day, like pro football players are all clean.
The only person I know that is clean for sure is me, but if alcohol and cold medicine count, then I'm out too. The Dayquil didn't do too much for my Sunday ride, but you never know.


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## aptivaboy (Nov 21, 2009)

I think Hincapie was liked by so many because of his self-sacrificing nature. He was the perfect domestique, yet a man who, if properly supported, could have really been a top-ranked Classics rider. He really put his teammates above his own success. 

However, his deep connections to the doping scandal will tarnish that reputation. Will it destroy his reputation? No, because he wasn't a big winner. The little guys, the support riders, can always say they were forced to do it by the big boys. They can claim they had no choice, whether many of us believe them or not. Hincapie can do the same, whether we believe him or not. I predict he'll emerge from all of this with a better reputation than some others. 


Now, whether he should emerge with a better rep, that's a whole 'nother question!!!


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## LC (Jan 28, 2004)

Lance's Waterboy


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## terzo rene (Mar 23, 2002)

I think you have to be remembered for a few years after you retire before you can be said to have a legacy.


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## davidka (Dec 12, 2001)

ultimobici said:


> Show me the evidence, however circumstantial, that Indurain had the UCI looking out for him. Armstrong, Tialwind & USAC took doping to a whole new level. They effectively Americanised it. Go USA! One of the smallest cycling nations has had a disproportionately bad effect on cycling.


He won-big. That's really all the evidence needed knowing what we now know about that era. His team rode the Tour exactly like Lance's later did, with star level guys in his service smashing everyone with pace. They were completely dominant and they never got caught (not that many did back then).

To say LA and Tailwind took doping to a new level is absurd. They didn't invent doping and most of the staff on that team was not American and the number of US riders on their TdF team dropped every year after 99'. These weren't new tricks, they just had big bank roll to afford the best guys and a good program, just like Banesto before them.


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## David Loving (Jun 13, 2008)

Hincapie, LA's water boy as described above, has the same legacy as Lance, in my view. He was just a nice guy, where Lance was not.


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## Doctor Falsetti (Sep 24, 2010)

davidka said:


> To say LA and Tailwind took doping to a new level is absurd.


Likely correct. Ferrari had fewer limits in the Gewiss years. The stuff he did with Riis, Gotti, Furlan, and later with Pantani will likely never be replicated. 

They did take the corruption of the sport to a new level. The levels that the UCI went to ignore and enable Armstrong's doping and promote the myth was disturbing. The harassment was disturbing. The willingness of the media and fans to ignore the obvious and promote an absurd myth was troubling

Hopefully we do not see anything like it again


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## spade2you (May 12, 2009)

David Loving said:


> Hincapie, LA's water boy as described above, has the same legacy as Lance, in my view. He was just a nice guy, where Lance was not.


I know. It's horrible since the competition definitely wasn't doping and on the same program.


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## Doctor Falsetti (Sep 24, 2010)

spade2you said:


> I know. It's horrible since the competition definitely wasn't doping and on the same program.


True. 

When they retested the 99 samples all the samples on the 1st stage tested positive, but after that most of the positives came from Lance. Teams were scared to bring drugs into France after Festina, Lance just hired his Gardner to drive a motorcycle around with the drugs

When Vaughters went to CA he was shocked that they did not take 25 injections per day

How many other programs received advanced notice of "surprised" testing? 

When Lance tested positive for EPO Johan was given a tour of the lab and shown how the testing procedure works....was that part of everyone's "Program"? Wonder if Mayo got this treatment when he tested positive for EPO?

Armstrong and Verbruggen partnered on huge business deals, was this part of every riders "Program"?


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## stevesbike (Jun 3, 2002)

spade2you said:


> I know. It's horrible since the competition definitely wasn't doping and on the same program.


the competition wasn't sitting beside LA when he went off on Kimmage with his 'noble cause' speech. They all deserve a special place in hell for being complicit in hiding their doping behind cancer victims. 

Lance Armstrong & Paul Kimmage verbal battle at Tour of California 2009 - YouTube


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## turbogrover (Jan 1, 2006)

Ironic Hincapie jersey on ebay:
Hincapie "Dopers Suck" thermal long sleeve jersey | eBay


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## Fireform (Dec 15, 2005)

Get that baby autographed and you're talking value!


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