# Landis CRACKS!



## zero85ZEN (Oct 11, 2002)

Being paced by Azevedo.


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## zero85ZEN (Oct 11, 2002)

zero85ZEN said:


> Being paced by Azevedo.


Now's he's totally alone.


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## pr0230 (Jun 4, 2004)

*Ear piece is out...*

Looks like he has bonked... and doenst want to hear about it... 

Doesn't look like he is in pain... But man is he dropping....


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## ttug (May 14, 2004)

*minute plus down*

he is dropped by over a minute now


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## ttug (May 14, 2004)

*2 plus down and OUT*

I believe he is cooked. 2 minutees plu and fading fast,.


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## zero85ZEN (Oct 11, 2002)

*Landis has lost the Tour today.*

End of story.


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## desmo13 (Jun 28, 2006)

So, he has no hope for tomorrow, or the TT?


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## Guest (Jul 19, 2006)

I said this yesterday - if he blows it would be very bad news, and so it is. Too bad


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## ttug (May 14, 2004)

*yup*



zero85ZEN said:


> End of story.


oh well.:mad2:


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## Mocat4 (Jul 7, 2006)

We should see Robbie McEwen doing a wheelie past Floyd any second now...


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## terzo rene (Mar 23, 2002)

Since he's not stuffing himself as he would with bonkage I am wondering if the degenerated head of his femur now has some debris floating in the socket.


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## Lumbergh (Aug 19, 2005)

zero85ZEN said:


> End of story.


Not so fast - there's still 2 more days plus the TT, in which Landis led all...


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## zero85ZEN (Oct 11, 2002)

*In light of todays events...*

...it sort of illuminates Floyd's conservative riding over the past two weeks. I suspect he wasn't as strong as he looked perhaps?


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## Guest (Jul 19, 2006)

Lumbergh said:


> Not so fast - there's still 2 more days plus the TT, in which Landis led all...


Except Gonchar, but yeah, he crushed all the other GC contenders. But it's looking like he may lose too much time to the other GC guys - unless he is strong on Thursday.


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## ttug (May 14, 2004)

*huh*



AJL said:


> Except Gonchar, but yeah, he crushed all the other GC contenders. But it's looking like he may lose too much time to the other GC guys - unless he is strong on Thursday.


He is 9+ minutes down with another mountains day tomorrow.

The man would have to drive a car in the TT to make up the time.


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## Stinky Hippie (Jul 19, 2002)

*If you don't put your stamp on the Tour....*

....you don't win. Landis played the Lance card (conservative use of energy, mark your rivals etc. etc.) most of the time, but he never laid down the law. In retrospect, it was only a matter of time before someone broke him....or he broke himself.

It's a sad day. 





zero85ZEN said:


> ...it sort of illuminates Floyd's conservative riding over the past two weeks. I suspect he wasn't as strong as he looked perhaps?


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## Lumbergh (Aug 19, 2005)

ttug said:


> He is 9+ minutes down with another mountains day tomorrow.
> 
> The man would have to drive a car in the TT to make up the time.


yep - I definitely need to revise that statement. Unless Floyd's rivals similarly blow up over the next 2 days, it's pretty much over. That sucks. 

Guess that hot sauce really came in handy for LA when he destroyed his rivals in the mtns.


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## James OCLV (Jun 4, 2002)

Lumbergh said:


> Guess that hot sauce really came in handy for LA when he destroyed his rivals in the mtns.


What's that got to do w/Floyd????


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## cyclodawg (Jul 1, 2003)

Stinky Hippie said:


> ....you don't win. Landis played the Lance card (conservative use of energy, mark your rivals etc. etc.) most of the time, but he never laid down the law. In retrospect, it was only a matter of time before someone broke him....or he broke himself.
> 
> It's a sad day.


Landis has handled this race nothing like Armstrong and Discovery/Postal ever did. Lance only became conservative when he had 5 or more minutes on his rivals.


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## James OCLV (Jun 4, 2002)

Stinky Hippie said:


> ....you don't win. Landis played the Lance card (conservative use of energy, mark your rivals etc. etc.) most of the time, but he never laid down the law. In retrospect, it was only a matter of time before someone broke him....or he broke himself.
> 
> It's a sad day.


Played the Lance card? I think that Floyd has ridden this race exactly the opposite from the way Lance rode them.


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## desmo13 (Jun 28, 2006)

I wonder if the attackers put too much into it today, and crack tomorrow. Just wishfull thinking on my part huh?


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## whit417 (Jul 5, 2005)

That was painful to watch.


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## Bocephus Jones II (Oct 7, 2004)

desmo13 said:


> I wonder if the attackers put too much into it today, and crack tomorrow. Just wishfull thinking on my part huh?


yeah...but I suppose it isn't over till it's over. I guess I thought Landis had it locked up after yesterday--he looked strong. Guess he wasn't.


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## ziggurat22 (Jul 13, 2005)

I'm so beside myself. Oscar f&*king Pereiro! Why!!! :mad2:


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## ttug (May 14, 2004)

*hmmmmmm*



Bocephus Jones II said:


> yeah...but I suppose it isn't over till it's over. I guess I thought Landis had it locked up after yesterday--he looked strong. Guess he wasn't.


Well, in GC Floyd is 8+ minutes down at 11th and Leipheimer is now in 9th and just under 8 minutes down. 

UNLESS there is a freaky deaky voo doo feeling tomorrow, we have Jeaux Plane etc etc, I believe its safe to say, Floyd MIGHT podium? As to Yellow, its over, IMO


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## zero85ZEN (Oct 11, 2002)

*It's O-V-E-R*



ttug said:


> Well, in GC Floyd is 8+ minutes down at 11th and Leipheimer is now in 9th and just under 8 minutes down.
> 
> UNLESS there is a freaky deaky voo doo feeling tomorrow, we have Jeaux Plane etc etc, I believe its safe to say, Floyd MIGHT podium? As to Yellow, its over, IMO


Floyd can only shoot for a win in the ITT. The podium is out of reach. Epic collapse. One bad day and the Tour goes away....

If Oscar P survives tomorrow he will likely win the Tour!


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## James OCLV (Jun 4, 2002)

ziggurat22 said:


> I'm so beside myself. Oscar f&*king Pereiro! Why!!! :mad2:


I hate to say it, but Floyd deserves it. He let Pereiro gain 28 minutes last week. He gambled and lost, and now it's time to pay up.

Sad day indeed.


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## ttug (May 14, 2004)

*oh well*



zero85ZEN said:


> Floyd can only shoot for a win in the ITT. The podium is out of reach. Epic collapse. One bad day and the Tour goes away....
> 
> If Oscar P survives tomorrow he will likely win the Tour!


I think you might be right, hey who knows.


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## Fogdweller (Mar 26, 2004)

This is a shame. Tomorrow is another day and those that contend or defend will have to take those legs to the time trial. Two exceptional days could erase one bad one but Floyd will have to do it all by himself, that team is so thin compared to t-mobile and CSC (both reduced rosters as well).

AND COULD WE HAVE JUST ONE THREAD WITHOUT BRINGING UP LANCE ARMSTRONG!!


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## moabbiker (Sep 11, 2002)

If any American deserves to podium right now it should be Levi. He's the only one who proved he had a bad day take him out, but later recover. Landis is a let-down and frankly I agree that he never had what it took to deserve a win. 

Maybe now we'll hear the blame go to his hip. Could this be why he released his hip during the tour, in case he got attacked, knowing his team was also crap? I figure so.


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## ttug (May 14, 2004)

*well*



Fogdweller said:


> This is a shame. Tomorrow is another day and those that contend or defend will have to take those legs to the time trial. Two exceptional days could erase one bad one but Floyd will have to do it all by himself, that team is so thin compared to t-mobile and CSC (both reduced rosters as well).
> 
> AND COULD WE HAVE JUST ONE THREAD WITHOUT BRINGING UP LANCE ARMSTRONG!!


What would Lance do? Gosh, I dont know anybody else???????


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## ziggurat22 (Jul 13, 2005)

James OCLV said:


> I hate to say it, but Floyd deserves it. He let Pereiro gain 28 minutes last week. He gambled and lost, and now it's time to pay up.
> 
> Sad day indeed.


I know, this is quite true. However, didn't Phonak's DS make this decision?


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## bc165 (Aug 5, 2003)

*You can only go so long...*

without an In-N-Out burger....


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## FondriestFan (May 19, 2005)

Whatever, moab. The guy's got more guts than any little whiner bashing him on some message board. I notice a lot of you keyboard warriors hammering away on every cyclist who cracks.

Landis had a terrible day, that's true. Personally, I feel he's one of the few racers who are racing clean at this Tour and that's why he's cracking.

But nonetheless, he put up a valiant fight. Chapeau to him, a true fighter and an inspiration to cyclists everywhere.


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## Cruzer2424 (Feb 8, 2005)

bc165 said:


> without an In-N-Out burger....



haha. I don't remember where I saw an interview where he mentinoned that. But I laughed when he said it...


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## moabbiker (Sep 11, 2002)

Wouldn't have made any difference, would it? Landis and team (what's left of it) got a little break by the lead, so in theory that should have made them stronger from the stages ahead at that point. Phonak as a whole wasn't even in the same league to be a GC contendor, and today we saw that neither was Floyd, regadless of the Pereiro incident.


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## zero85ZEN (Oct 11, 2002)

*Not wanting to...*



FondriestFan said:


> Landis had a terrible day, that's true. Personally, I feel he's one of the few racers who are racing clean at this Tour and that's why he's cracking.


...hijack my own thread: But, and I'm asking in all seriousness...not looking for a brawl, why do you feel Landis is clean but doubt that most others are? Truly just want to know your reasoning. I'd have to say that I would not suspect any of them, more than any others, one way or the other.


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## SJBiker (Jan 22, 2004)

*ummm, no*



moabbiker said:


> If any American deserves to podium right now it should be Levi. He's the only one who proved he had a bad day take him out, but later recover. *Landis is a let-down and frankly I agree that he never had what it took to deserve a win. *
> 
> Maybe now we'll hear the blame go to his hip. Could this be why he released his hip during the tour, in case he got attacked, knowing his team was also crap? I figure so.


What does that mean? What are the criteria required to 'deserve' a win? EVERY person in the tour deserves to win, if you take into account the # of hours they put in on crappy days in the rain or snow or sun, trying to better their form.

If theres one guy who doesn't give lame excuses, its Landis.


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## Shockee (Feb 12, 2004)

'only rider racing clean' what a cheap, cheap shot. How the H-E-double hockeysticks do you know who is taking and who isn't? HA!

The only 'clean' I see is that he clean didn't take enough nutrients like a sensible racer should. I doubt that doping would have made this much difference (losing 7+ minutes over 13km). Of course lots of racers crack in this way, but it is rare to see someone in yellow do it. I feel sad for him but this is what sport is all about.


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## ttug (May 14, 2004)

*you got a point*



SJBiker said:


> What does that mean? What are the criteria required to 'deserve' a win? EVERY person in the tour deserves to win, if you take into account the # of hours they put in on crappy days in the rain or snow or sun, trying to better their form.
> 
> If theres one guy who doesn't give lame excuses, its Landis.


I have to agree. He has to date been rather honest about himself, his condition and his team. Bottom line is he cracked majorly and its over for him as a GC threat. That is unless of course everyone just sits down for 10+ minutes during the TT because he earned it. ha ha ha

Seriously, he is putting it out there and though IMO he lacks the show we would have seen with Armstrong (yes I hear the groaning now) he tried and like it or not, he did not make it.

That does not mean he sucks or swallows or blows or does the shower stall shuffle or is a bottom or a top, it just means that on this day Floyd did not have it and he cracked. End of story to an honest self evaluating athlete.....


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## upstateSC-rider (Aug 21, 2004)

James OCLV said:


> I hate to say it, but Floyd deserves it. He let Pereiro gain 28 minutes last week. He gambled and lost, and now it's time to pay up.
> 
> Sad day indeed.


Unfortunately that's all too true.



bc165 said:


> without an In-N-Out burger....


Really. You'd think they could have some frozen ones like White Castle.  

Pretty sad seeing a GC contender lose time like that, though. 
Now I'm on the Kloden wagon. 

Lou.


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## Dan Gerous (Mar 28, 2005)

moabbiker said:


> Wouldn't have made any difference, would it? Landis and team (what's left of it) got a little break by the lead, so in theory that should have made them stronger from the stages ahead at that point. Phonak as a whole wasn't even in the same league to be a GC contendor, and today we saw that neither was Floyd, regadless of the Pereiro incident.


Pereiro incident? I missed something or is attacking now known as incident? Pereiro is in the lead and that's good for him, he worked for it much more than Landis did so far in this tour.


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## James OCLV (Jun 4, 2002)

SJBiker said:


> What does that mean? What are the criteria required to 'deserve' a win? EVERY person in the tour deserves to win, if you take into account the # of hours they put in on crappy days in the rain or snow or sun, trying to better their form.
> 
> If theres one guy who doesn't give lame excuses, its Landis.


No, no, no... what *I* meant by "Floyd deserves this" was that he deserved to lose the jersey again to Pererio because of his poor tactical choice, not that he deserved to have a bad day.


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## JohnHemlock (Jul 15, 2006)

James OCLV said:


> Played the Lance card? I think that Floyd has ridden this race exactly the opposite from the way Lance rode them.


I agree with this. I never saw any "Attack Until They Crack" out of Floyd.

With the Alpha Dog gone this year, it doesn't seem like the rest of the pack knew what to do. Good for Oscar for seizing the opportunity!


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## Srexy (Oct 25, 2005)

I don't think letting Pereiro get away will have any bearing on Landis's eventual GC placing. He cracked fair and square today.

I'm still wondering what impact a stronger (climbing) team might have had on his performance today however.


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## badder2 (Jun 26, 2006)

If I had to guess at the GC leaders that may me getting some recovery help I would look at Dessel first. He's hanging in there despite being way out of his element


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## ru1-2cycle (Jan 7, 2006)

*Lance.*



Fogdweller said:


> This is a shame. Tomorrow is another day and those that contend or defend will have to take those legs to the time trial. Two exceptional days could erase one bad one but Floyd will have to do it all by himself, that team is so thin compared to t-mobile and CSC (both reduced rosters as well).
> 
> AND COULD WE HAVE JUST ONE THREAD WITHOUT BRINGING UP LANCE ARMSTRONG!!


Don't you miss his bravado dominance particularly in the Alp Duez, showing all his opponents who is the boss and in charge of controlling the TDF race???? No one in this TDF has been able to step up and deliver like he did, and I do appreciate his top level class! (and without the use of performance enhancing drugs)
I do, man, he is a living legend!


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## carlos (May 26, 2004)

FondriestFan said:


> Landis had a terrible day, that's true. Personally, I feel he's one of the few racers who are racing clean at this Tour and that's why he's cracking.


racing clean? dude, we are talking about pro cycling here, not golf or poker..


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## DIRT BOY (Aug 22, 2002)

*cracked and choked!*

Should have never gave up so much time!

Just shows how god LA was. Even isolated, he found a way.

Flyod is just not that good anfd this is a VERY competitive TDF.

She should give Phil Mickelson a call so that can discuss stratagies  :cryin:


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## zero85ZEN (Oct 11, 2002)

*Dewd...*



DIRT BOY said:


> Should have never gave up so much time!
> 
> Just shows how god LA was. Even isolated, he found a way.
> 
> ...


...how fast can you pedal your bike around France? Easy to judge that which you have very little personal experience with I see.


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## cyclodawg (Jul 1, 2003)

DIRT BOY said:


> Should have never gave up so much time!
> 
> Just shows how god LA was. Even isolated, he found a way.
> 
> ...


Mickelson would choke when a major was on the line, at one point in his career. What happened to Landis today was not a choke (though that's the way it will probably be perceived by American sports fans unfamiliar with cycling). He didn't crack because of pressure. He cracked probably because of stupidity. He just didn't eat enough, or he didn't eat and drink wisely in the previous 20 hours. That's carelessness, but it's not a choke.

How that sort of thing can happen in a race this tight, on the queen stage, and with everything hanging on the line that Landis had on the line (because of his hip, this could have been his only chance), is beyond me. It's one of the most fundamental things in competitive cycling--you have to keep your fuel levels up. There's no excuse for bonking on a stage like this.


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## Dan Gerous (Mar 28, 2005)

Well, I agree with DIRT BOY, Floyd has never been too impressive. Never attacks, never does gutsy moves and always looked like a follower on climbs. He is very good on TTs though. And because he is not the best *pro* rider doesn't mean we can ride better than him. I think I wouldn't be at the finish line yet if I was there. That doesn't mean we can't say he's not the best.


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## DIRT BOY (Aug 22, 2002)

I KNOW I could race the TDF. Again it's not my job aslo!

If I could would I be on this board?, but I have been in MANY competitive situations and won some and lost some a choked a few.

Floyd had a chance and did not put others away! we you have some one by the balls, you CRUSH them and tear thier hearts out!

Floyd gave by too much time by being conservitive, then when we was tired he was screwed!

Just my opinon. Like #holes, we all have one!


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## geraldatwork (Jul 15, 2005)

Has anyone seen an interview with Landis or his director. I'm curious what actually happened. Was he just drained after all of the grinding days in the tour, his hip acting up, or did he bonk from not eating/drinking enough.


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## DIRT BOY (Aug 22, 2002)

Well this was FLOYD"S Major and he blew it!
Stupid or move or not, cycling or any sport he choked! He gave up to much time and he paid for it when he a had a bad day! To me, he choked!

Maybe pressure of leading or maybe winning caused him not to think and he bonked or what not!


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## DIRT BOY (Aug 22, 2002)

I agree, lets found out. I would also love to know WHY they gave up so much time!

Again, maybe he is just not the "great american hope" we thought he was.


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## DIRT BOY (Aug 22, 2002)

Yup! Floyd has not shown the KILLER INSTICNT you need in race like this.
great tour though. Just need the Italians to show up. Maybe there still partying from the WC!!!!!!!!!


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## FondriestFan (May 19, 2005)

DIRT BOY said:


> Should have never gave up so much time!
> 
> Just shows how god LA was. Even isolated, he found a way.
> 
> ...


Man, you need to take a pair of those THM Claviculas and shove 'em where the sun don't shine. Move your head out of the way first.


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## JimP (Dec 18, 2001)

Floyd looked like he had dehydrated. The classic symptoms are first to lose power and then lose focus. The chemical balance in the body is very sensitive to fluids and mineral concentrations. I vividly remember the first race where I dehydrated. I was part way through the run segment of an International length triathlon when I just couldn't run any more. After I finished the race and realized that I had lost all will to compete during the run, I then understood what I had read about dehydration. If that was Floyd's problem, that could have started yesterday if he hadn't replaced enough fluid from those climbs or this morning in one of the earlier climbs. Once you are "down a quart" in fluid, it usually can not be replaced until many hours or days later.


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## tom_o (May 6, 2004)

On Velonews.com they have an interview with him that he gave after the stage today. Basically he attributed it to 'having a bad day.' FWIW, he mentioned that it wasn't an issue w/ food or water.

He also mentioned that he was suffering from the outset of the stage and tried to hide it, but couldn't when he was isolated on the last climb.

For everyone shouting that conceding 30mins a few days ago was a mistake, can you explain yourselves?

Landis was up, what 1:30? when he 'gave' the jersey away? Periero got ~10+ mins on him today. The jersey wouldn't have been his today whether or not he let that break go for 30 mins.

DIRT BOY - you're an ass.


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## mikeman (Sep 17, 2005)

FondriestFan said:


> Whatever, moab. The guy's got more guts than any little whiner bashing him on some message board. I notice a lot of you keyboard warriors hammering away on every cyclist who cracks.
> 
> Landis had a terrible day, that's true. Personally, I feel he's one of the few racers who are racing clean at this Tour and that's why he's cracking.
> 
> But nonetheless, he put up a valiant fight. Chapeau to him, a true fighter and an inspiration to cyclists everywhere.


Could not have said it better myself. Landis is a class act. He made no excuses. Riding with a necrotic hip socket is not something I think any of us would wish for. Lets give him his due, the guy rode like a champion. So he had a bad day, he sure put on a good show while it lasted.


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## Guest (Jul 19, 2006)

LOL!! This thread has gotten as crazy as the race


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## bc165 (Aug 5, 2003)

Didn't his wife come to visit him on the Alpe.... maybe he gave up some of his vital juices...

if that's the case, former football coaches must be rolling over in their graves....


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## mikeman (Sep 17, 2005)

Tomakit said:


> On Velonews.com they have an interview with him that he gave after the stage today. Basically he attributed it to 'having a bad day.' FWIW, he mentioned that it wasn't an issue w/ food or water.
> 
> He also mentioned that he was suffering from the outset of the stage and tried to hide it, but couldn't when he was isolated on the last climb.
> 
> ...


I second your point. Dirt Boy = D Bag.


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## DIRT BOY (Aug 22, 2002)

Whatever!


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## DIRT BOY (Aug 22, 2002)

Xxxxx


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## DIRT BOY (Aug 22, 2002)

Geez, somone gives an opinion that others don't like, then out come the personal attacks!

Just stating my feelings.

You can say what you want and call me names and that's fine. I should no better and not respond.

Man, I fell like I am in 1st grade again with all the name callers!


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## FondriestFan (May 19, 2005)

DIRT BOY said:


> Whatever jackass! I have a fork that might be small for your ass!


Losers like you give cycling a bad name. Nothing to do except talk about how Landis "choked". 

Good luck with your poser bikes. Lightweight doesn't just describe your bikes, it describes your intellectual capacity.


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## DIRT BOY (Aug 22, 2002)

Well, If you want to be a chmap, then you can't have bad days right?
or not on the most critical days!

it's nothing persoanl against Floyd. I would have love to see him win for the US!


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## Francis Cebedo (Aug 1, 2001)

DIRT BOY said:


> Dude, don't get personal A$$HOLE!





DIRT BOY said:


> Whatever jackass! I have a fork that might be small for your ass!


DIRT BOY. Calm down. You're gonna get banned from these boards. I know you're just retaliating but you're going off the deep end.

Step away from the keyboard...

Everybody put your guns down. I know this is a difficult day for the mennonite fans like myself

francois
founder, roadbikereview.com


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## DIRT BOY (Aug 22, 2002)

Again, you just acting like the loser you are.
Because my opinion rubs you the wrong way you start with personal attacks?

Are you on his payroll or something?

Poser bikes? ok, what ever you say! because i said he choked, this means I am stupid?


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## DIRT BOY (Aug 22, 2002)

Correct and I apologize! no word to the others that started the flame war right?
did I start with the name calling?

Yes, I should no better not to retaliatre. Just that Italian temper I guess.....

I did not start, but I get banned?

I am with this tread.


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## FondriestFan (May 19, 2005)

I saw a great cyclist out there suffering his ass off, then braving the media's endless asking him why he cracked on the world's biggest stage. I saw not only a great racer, but a great guy.

Then I saw a little pissant on a message board saying he "choked".

So yes, I think you're stupid.


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## Francis Cebedo (Aug 1, 2001)

FondriestFan said:


> I saw a great cyclist out there suffering his ass off, then braving the media's endless asking him why he cracked on the world's biggest stage. I saw not only a great racer, but a great guy.
> 
> Then I saw a little pissant on a message board saying he "choked".
> 
> So yes, I think you're stupid.


Ok Fondriestfan. Enough with the personal attacks.

fc


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## DIRT BOY (Aug 22, 2002)

Yes, he is. BUT at a critical time, cracked, chocked, or what ever you call it!
CHAMPS come thorugh when it counts. Hopefully he will prove me wrong.

The cream alsways rises to the top at the right time. I guess he went sour today.
just not a good time.

Again, you insist on the insults......Then I see a few on this board you just like to call people names like children.


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## FondriestFan (May 19, 2005)

He doesn't need to prove anything to you. The guy has many victories on his palmares.
And yes he is a champion. He had one bad day. Sadly, one such day can cost one the entire Tour, but his effort placed him far from being a choker.

Trite comments like "the cream rises to the top" mean nothing. They're empty words to fill up empty spaces. Many riders have had failure after failure, only to rise up and triumph. Today, Floyd failed, but choking implies a lack of effort, or a lack of mental fortitude, of which Floyd has plenty. I feel sorry for those who miss all that, only choosing to focus on what they consider "choking".


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## Guest (Jul 19, 2006)

DIRT BOY said:


> Yes, he is. BUT at a critical time, cracked, chocked, or what ever you call it!
> CHAMPS come thorugh when it counts. Hopefully he will prove me wrong.
> 
> The cream alsways rises to the top at the right time. I guess he went sour today.
> ...


When the founder of RBR asks to you back off because you may be banned - I suggest that you might want to stop posting for a day or two - just to play it safe. Your best defense right now would be silence.


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## DIRT BOY (Aug 22, 2002)

I agree with you one some points. Maybe he did go south metally with his stratagies. So according to you he and is DS "choked" today and thier planning. I guess our definitions of choking are very different.

Is this not the most important race in his racing scheadule? Is this this not the biggest race for the pro tour?

when thnigs got tough today, he failed. If he rises to finally fin the TDF at somepoint, this will all be forgotten!

Let just agree to disagree.


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## DIRT BOY (Aug 22, 2002)

I am doing nothing wrong, Just doing what we do here, debate!

If I get banned for that then something is wrong. I was told I might be banned for using words that i should not use and starting to lose control.

I let my emothins get to me when some children started with the names and like a child I fired back with is wrong and stupid, espcially on a MB.


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## dagger (Jul 22, 2004)

*Your wrong*



DIRT BOY said:


> Well this was FLOYD"S Major and he blew it!
> Stupid or move or not, cycling or any sport he choked! He gave up to much time and he paid for it when he a had a bad day! To me, he choked!
> 
> Maybe pressure of leading or maybe winning caused him not to think and he bonked or what not!


Floyd didn't screw it up. He bonked. He had no way to get food or water.

PLUS!!! he would still be down to Sastra, Evans, and Kloden, etal.


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## mtbykr (Feb 16, 2004)

*well*



DIRT BOY said:


> Yes, he is. BUT at a critical time, cracked, chocked, or what ever you call it!
> CHAMPS come thorugh when it counts. Hopefully he will prove me wrong.
> 
> The cream alsways rises to the top at the right time. I guess he went sour today.
> ...



Mabey i look at it differently---but i don't think he choked. Generally choking means you drop the ball mentally on a big stage (ex: a-rod in the playoffs-----it's all mental) Floyd didn't choke, his body shut down on him today...throughout the whole thing he has seem to make good decisions on the road.


As far as the reason goes; i think it was energy. Floyd is a class act and won't make any excuses; but if you saw him today he was suffering after galibier (sp?) His jersey was drenched to the point of being see-thru and the sweat was pouring off him---in addition he never had the same "lively" snap to his pedalstroke.. I think he didn't get enough fuel all day. He wasn't able to take on fuel on the climbs and then the decents were so crazy that he probably had trouble getting what he needed----and was never able to catch up. Not having a teamate there (besides merx, he was alone) to give him extra fuel really hurt him today and once they figured out he was suffering, it was over. (pierero knowing him so well probably helped them figure that out). In addition, after the stage all Floyd could do was drink--every camera shot had him drinking something (even in the car) ! 

Floyd will never make an excuse, but not having his team there to help him and fuel him today got the best of him!


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## dagger (Jul 22, 2004)

*First thing*



DIRT BOY said:


> I agree with you one some points. Maybe he did go south metally with his stratagies. So according to you he and is DS "choked" today and thier planning. I guess our definitions of choking are very different.
> 
> Is this not the most important race in his racing scheadule? Is this this not the biggest race for the pro tour?
> 
> ...


Learn how to type. Then go learn something about cycling. Then come back and keep your ridiculous opinions to yourself.


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## dagger (Jul 22, 2004)

*Agreed 100%*



mtbykr said:


> Mabey i look at it differently---but i don't think he choked. Generally choking means you drop the ball mentally on a big stage (ex: a-rod in the playoffs-----it's all mental) Floyd didn't choke, his body shut down on him today...throughout the whole thing he has seem to make good decisions on the road.
> 
> 
> As far as the reason goes; i think it was energy. Floyd is a class act and won't make any excuses; but if you saw him today he was suffering after galibier (sp?) His jersey was drenched to the point of being see-thru and the sweat was pouring off him---in addition he never had the same "lively" snap to his pedalstroke.. I think he didn't get enough fuel all day. He wasn't able to take on fuel on the climbs and then the decents were so crazy that he probably had trouble getting what he needed----and was never able to catch up. Not having a teamate there (besides merx, he was alone) to give him extra fuel really hurt him today and once they figured out he was suffering, it was over. (pierero knowing him so well probably helped them figure that out). In addition, after the stage all Floyd could do was drink--every camera shot had him drinking something (even in the car) !
> ...


He was looking very pale and pinkish. He definitely bonked. He had no food or water.


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## carlos (May 26, 2004)

mikeman said:


> Could not have said it better myself. Landis is a class act. He made no excuses. Riding with a necrotic hip socket is not something I think any of us would wish for. Lets give him his due, the guy rode like a champion. So he had a bad day, he sure put on a good show while it lasted.


class act.... jan ullrich and ivan basso used to be called a "class act".... 

lets be reallistic, floyd landis is the boriest racer i have ever seem in my life, the guy dont chase, the guy dont attack, he just follow the wheels, and follow wheels is not the best option when you have so much time ahead your competitors. him and his team didnt have the experience and the strategy to win the race.

but lets wait the following days, in these days its comon to see a racer crack like landis did today and tomorrow the same guy wins the stage... he just needs some "food"...:17:


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## carlos (May 26, 2004)

dagger said:


> Learn how to type. Then go learn something about cycling. Then come back and keep your ridiculous opinions to yourself.


now thats a polite answer... :hand:


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## DIRT BOY (Aug 22, 2002)

yes, my spelling sucks as I type too fast.

Well you seem to know a lot about cycling right?

_* Landis didn't have a clear explanation of what went wrong. He shrugged off suggestions that he couldn't handle the pressure or that he didn't get enough to eat or drink during the stage.*_
_* "I don't think it was a problem of not eating enough," Landis said "A lot of times, I feel that way and I come around at the end. There was never a flat part for 15 minutes where I could recover."*_

If he bonked on the hardest stage, then that's bad pre and race planning.
Sure sometimes it can not be avoided. BUT when the tour might be on the line, the rider, team and DS CANNOT let this happen, correct?

So if Landis said in his own words, it was not energy or lack of food, was was it?

If he could not recover, it suggest a few things could have gone wrong. training, planning during the races, etc among other factors.

With other favorites out of the race, he was the man to beat and could not get it done today, right?

Maybe "choke" was the wrong word. Maybe collapse? Wouild that make you and other feels better?

After my fav rider basso was kicked out, I was and still am rooting for Landis. BUT when the time came today, we just could not get it done. Looking back, maybe giving so much time up was a bad move ro he overtained/undertrained for this race and could not get it done today on this hill. He said _*"There was never a flat part for 15 minutes where I could recover."

*_ Others found away today right?

It looks likes if one's opinions ruffles some feathers, you are branded a dummy and called names....


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## Srexy (Oct 25, 2005)

Let's settle this once and for all - regardless of whether he or his team or anyone else "gave" away 30 minutes the other day has no bearing on today's events vis-a-vis Floyd Landis. 


As for whether he's boring or not - have you found watching him this tour boring? Have his tactics bored you? It would certainly appear that his actions have been far from boring judging from the frantic digit tapping that has gone on.

I watched the the stage and I watched the interview - both very painful. Let's give it up for Floyd for laying it all out - both on the road and in the media circus!


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## magnolialover (Jun 2, 2004)

*Landis cracked...*

Landis cracked, and that's about it. He didn't choke, he cracked. It's too bad, but he's probably out now for the win. The man just lost the drive, I think even in the interviews that I read from him, he said it wasn't a matter of not eating or drinking, just nothing coming from the engine room. Sad to see him crack, but it was an epic stage. It was awesome. The Chicken on the attack, Landis cracking, Menchov attacking, Sastre countering, holy crap. Best day of the race without a doubt thus far. Epic is all I can say. Epic. 

Floyd is done, barring a miracle, but I'm not going to count anything out for this Tour though, it appears that just about anything can happen, and just might really.


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## DIRT BOY (Aug 22, 2002)

*Nope, YOU are wrong my friend....*



dagger said:


> Floyd didn't screw it up. He bonked. He had no way to get food or water.
> 
> PLUS!!! he would still be down to Sastra, Evans, and Kloden, etal.


_* Landis didn't have a clear explanation of what went wrong. He shrugged off suggestions that he couldn't handle the pressure or that he didn't get enough to eat or drink during the stage.*__* "I don't think it was a problem of not eating enough," *_


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## mtbykr (Feb 16, 2004)

*ok*

I have said this before, but Floyd will never give an excuse---he just had a bad day! However mabey he feels saying he didn't have enough fuel would be negative toward the team--thus he doesn't throw his team under the bus. Obviously i am just watching on tv, but it was pretty obvious (to me at least) that he had a fuel problem. Even if you don't take the way he looked on the stage---after the stage he was downing everything he could get his hands on....which is the first time i have seen this from him this year! I highly doubt that this result was due to poor planning, training, ect... (yes his team sucks) it was just a bad day brought on OR aided by not enough fuel during the ride.

As far as the rest of his tour goes, i really don't see him coming close. He would have to have a monster day tommorow and i don't see that happening after what his body went through today.


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## ~David~ (Jul 2, 2006)

Honstly I was just waiting for this to happen, I never belived any of the Floyd Landis hype.
I'm a CSC, Micheal Rassmuson and Levi Leipheimer fan so I don't really give a rip as to what happens to Floyd, hes never made a single aggressive move let alone one that was successful.

The main bummer for me is that Levi after his huge effort didn't even gain one place higher.


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## galanz (Oct 28, 2004)

Heheh, amazing how personal some people take these things. 
I've never really understood idolatry or fanboi's, but I guess it's true what's said about people like this....


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## shabbasuraj (May 14, 2005)

I have always thought...He should have never gave up the jersey... he gave his opponents a taste... and they saw weakness...

..and it all came out in the wash today...

Landis got punched in the mouth, and did nothing about it...

(Paging Mr. A. Mercx...Mr A. Merckx.....???)

(crickets chirping)....

Landis all alone, exposed on a damn hill... this is why cycling is a team sport...

If OP has a good day on Thurs... His grip on the yellow will increase monumentally...



But today was more about the CHICKEN...

WHAT a friggin beast that guy is, when riding uphill.........


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## Fogdweller (Mar 26, 2004)

ru1-2cycle said:


> Don't you miss his bravado dominance particularly in the Alp Duez


Uh, no.


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## Bryan (Sep 19, 2004)

James OCLV said:


> I hate to say it, but Floyd deserves it. He let Pereiro gain 28 minutes last week. He gambled and lost, and now it's time to pay up.


I said the same thing. He was stupid to allow Pereiro to gain that much time and now Floyd pays for it.


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## Bryan (Sep 19, 2004)

mikeman said:


> Could not have said it better myself. Landis is a class act. He made no excuses. Riding with a necrotic hip socket is not something I think any of us would wish for....



No excuses? You just excused him for his hip just one sentence after you said he made no excuses.  We'll be hearing about that hip for years.


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## tom_o (May 6, 2004)

I'm pretty sure I started this personal name calling. My apologies.

DIRT BOY - that means you.

All, pretty special ride by Floyd today, win or not, no?


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## dagger (Jul 22, 2004)

*Guess what*

We all knew yesterday that you were totally wrong. The guy you said that didn't have it, and was complaining about, gave us the best race in long long time.


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## huez (Mar 15, 2002)

DIRT BOY said:


> I am doing nothing wrong, Just doing what we do here, debate!
> 
> If I get banned for that then something is wrong. I was told I might be banned for using words that i should not use and starting to lose control.
> 
> I let my emothins get to me when some children started with the names and like a child I fired back with is wrong and stupid, espcially on a MB.



Dirt Boy, with all respect, learn something about cycling before you go spewing off all that garbage.

There are a few others on this thread here who are "cycling tactics 101" challenged as well. 

Anyway, Floyd is the man now. I didnt much care for him until today. What a ride.


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## desmo13 (Jun 28, 2006)

There are some things said in this thread should never be forgotten. Maybe Landis read this thread last night.


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## DIRT BOY (Aug 22, 2002)

No aplogies needed. I guess everyone was on edge. Maybe I was upset after investing 5 hrs watching that race to see him go like that....


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## DIRT BOY (Aug 22, 2002)

no message


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## DIRT BOY (Aug 22, 2002)

I know enough, maybe not everything but enough, thanks!


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## Mark41 (Oct 18, 2005)

*I Wouldn't be so sure!*



zero85ZEN said:


> End of story.


Saturdays time trial should be interesting.


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## Jeff in Texas (Mar 17, 2006)

~David~ said:


> Honstly I was just waiting for this to happen, I never belived any of the Floyd Landis hype.
> I'm a CSC, Micheal Rassmuson and Levi Leipheimer fan so I don't really give a rip as to what happens to Floyd, hes never made a single aggressive move let alone one that was successful.


My oh my how things have changed!


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## chasgator (Feb 9, 2005)

Hmmmm, maybe that Nietzche quote is correct....
That which does not kill me, makes me stronger.


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## mikeman (Sep 17, 2005)

Bryan said:


> No excuses? You just excused him for his hip just one sentence after you said he made no excuses.  We'll be hearing about that hip for years.


Hey pal did you see the interviews last night? No excuses. Did you see the race today? No excuses for yesterday. You know who is going to win the TDF? Yeah, FLOYD LANDIS! No apologies necessary. Just STFU


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## mikeman (Sep 17, 2005)

Bryan said:


> I said the same thing. He was stupid to allow Pereiro to gain that much time and now Floyd pays for it.


You did and do not know what you are talking about. Move Pereiro out and he would have still been 6:18 behind Sastre.. Get a clue. The 28 minutes was a wise move. If it was stupid for Floyd the rest of the peloton is even dumber. Not a bad strategy to let others do the work of defending. Unless he knew he would have a distastrous day, I for one and I think others would agree it was certainly not a wrong maneuver. Especially after his redemptive performance today. Warm up the microwave, and get your humble pie ready.


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## rroselli (Jan 2, 2003)

*True dat...*

that was worth watching twice! amazing can of whip-ass


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## elijahm (Jul 17, 2005)

i just love reading posts like this and news articles like this from yesterday.... talk about literally proving the world wrong...!!!!!!


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## radair (Mar 13, 2006)

rroselli said:


> that was worth watching twice! amazing can of whip-ass


Yes, yes it was. An amazing performance by a very gutsy man. There's more than a few people on this board that can eat crow.

Actually, I thought he was done as well, but I'd never count out the impossible from happening. I feel very fortunate to have witnessed this historic event.


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