# 1st Bike (Used) Comparison - Need advice! (Felt F4 ultegra vs 2015 Cannondale CAAD10)



## wilboh (Apr 2, 2018)

Comparing these bikes for my 1st purchase. Recreation only, but would like to get the best possible deal and value for my money looking at these 3 options:

Felt F4 Ultegra: https://bozeman.craigslist.org/bik/d/felt-f4-full-carbon-ultegra/6547258131.html

CAAD 10: https://bozeman.craigslist.org/bik/d/2015-cannondale-caad10-for/6522381452.html

Probably leaning towards the 1st 2, unless the extras in the 3rd actually make it worthwile. These are the used bikes available in my size range, from people that aren't charging 3k for a used bike (I.e. Big Sky prices). I would really love some advice on any of these options. Thanks so much in advanced!


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## DaveG (Feb 4, 2004)

wilboh said:


> Comparing these bikes for my 1st purchase. Recreation only, but would like to get the best possible deal and value for my money looking at these 3 options:
> 
> Felt F4 Ultegra: https://bozeman.craigslist.org/bik/d/felt-f4-full-carbon-ultegra/6547258131.html
> 
> ...


I would check them out in person, but the Felt seems like the best deal to me


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## wilboh (Apr 2, 2018)

DaveG said:


> the Felt seems like the best deal to me


 Any chance you'd be willing to elaborate?


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## pmf (Feb 23, 2004)

On general principles of decent CL advertising -- at least the guy selling the Felt had decent photos and description of the bike and components. The Cannondale and the Fuji appear to have both been ridden about 25 miles. Still have wheel reflectors and spoke protector on (almost as poor taste as a kickstand). 

I like the Felt because the price is reasonable, it has all Ultegra components. I'm not a fan of aluminum bikes (Cannondale), but I haven't owned one in a long time. Its reasonably priced and they are popular bikes (I give it #2). The Fuji seems overpriced, unless you need a tool bag and you wear 46 sized shoes. Those are not great shoes (plus, used shoes ... ugh ... keeps me out of bowling alleys). I can't tell what either of those bikes has component wise. You want Ultegra or 105 and you want 11-speed. The Felt has Shimano cranks while the other two have after market FSA crap. Not that you'd notice that when you ride, I just hate when bike companies put cheap crap like FSA cranks and tektro brakes on bikes. 

They differ a bit in size. 56, 57 and 58. Have you tried riding them? You'll get comments here about fit being important, but if you're just starting out, what fits you now, won't fit you as you ride more. For a lot of folks, a large bike initially feels comfortable, but after they ride for some time, they realize a smaller frame fits better. Plus or minus a centimeter isn't a big deal, and its easy and cheap to swap to a longer or shorter stem.

I frankly don't think you can go wrong with any of these bikes. Buying used is a smart way to try out road biking without spending $1000's on a bike you might be selling on CL for $650 in a couple years. And like I tell anyone getting into this -- in a year, you'll either be lusting for a shiny new ______, or the bike will be in your basement gathering dust because you decided road biking isn't your thing.


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## Lombard (May 8, 2014)

The correct bike to buy is the one that fits. If a bike doesn't fit right, it will eventually hurt and you will lose interest in riding. Find out your correct frame size first and go from there.


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## pmf (Feb 23, 2004)

Lombard said:


> The correct bike to buy is the one that fits. If a bike doesn't fit right, it will eventually hurt and you will lose interest in riding. Find out your correct frame size first and go from there.


Ah, and here's the 'fit' advice. So how does one determine the correct bike size? Simple, go to your local bike shop and pay a professional fitter $200 to fit you. That's 1/3 the cost you're looking at for buying a used bike. Some of us have never used a fitter, and have gotten along just fine. 

Bikes differ a bit in geometry. A '56' cm bike usually refers to the length of the seat tube. You want to set the seat so that your leg is slightly bent at the 6:00 position. So raising and lower the saddle is key. You also want to have your hands on the hoods, but not be too stretched out -- its good if your elbows aren't locked. Handlebars come in 3-4 common sizes (again, they're measured differently), so you want your arms parallel with your shoulders. Not pointed inward (bars too small) or outward (bars too wide). A stem can also have a big impact on how a bike fits you. Stems come in lengths ranging from 8 cm (or even smaller) to 15 cm. So if you feel a tad stretched out and the bike has a 12 cm stem, moving to a 10 cm stem may be all you need. Stems also have angles -- steeper angles make you sit more upright which many beginners feel more comfortable. 

Out of curiosity, how tall are you? What's your inseam? Do you consider your body proportions to be average? An old rule of thumb is your inseam (in cm) times 2/3. If any one of these bikes is the right size, they'll all fit OK.


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## Jay Strongbow (May 8, 2010)

pmf said:


> Ah, and here's the 'fit' advice. So how does one determine the correct bike size? Simple, go to your local bike shop and pay a professional fitter $200 to fit you. That's 1/3 the cost you're looking at for buying a used bike. Some of us have never used a fitter, and have gotten along just fine.


That makes no sense. Unless you are trying to say those of you who have never paid $200 have never determined your correct size but I don't think you are.


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## Lombard (May 8, 2014)

pmf said:


> Ah, and here's the 'fit' advice. So how does one determine the correct bike size? Simple, go to your local bike shop and pay a professional fitter $200 to fit you.


And spending $200 to avoid a $600, $650 or $1050 mistake is a good investment. :idea: 



pmf said:


> Out of curiosity, how tall are you? What's your inseam? Do you consider your body proportions to be average? An old rule of thumb is your inseam (in cm) times 2/3. If any one of these bikes is the right size, they'll all fit OK.


No way a 56 and 58 will both fit unless your correct size just happens to be right in the middle at 57 (the 22.5" frame). Sure, you can play with stems and saddle position to an extent, but it still won't be as optimal as getting your correct frame size. 

Also keep in mind that if you have a steeper angle stem, those differences in stem length will be effectively less. 

In general, a 56 frame fits someone who is around 5' 10" given normal proportions. A 58 is for someone 6ft. or a little taller.


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## pmf (Feb 23, 2004)

Jay Strongbow said:


> That makes no sense. Unless you are trying to say those of you who have never paid $200 have never determined your correct size but I don't think you are.


No, I'm definitely not saying that. First, it's a bicycle. This isn't an exact science as a lot of people here suggest. A cm here or there isn't a world of difference. Second, whatever you start out thinking fits you will inevitably change as you ride more, get in better shape, and even as you age. If the guy is 5'9" and has normal body proportions, any of those bikes will fit him well enough. If he's 6'3", none of them will. Third, it's a $600 used bike. We're not talking about a Colnago C-64 here. The difference in those frames is maybe 2 cm at most -- three quarters of an inch. Look at that on a ruler and tell me that it's night and day. Sure -- you don't want to be that guy with the seat jammed all the way down the seat tube. I get that. 

Look at what they'll sell the guy at the LBS. I've never seen much exact science at the place I go to, despite them having a fitter. The stem and bars will be whatever Trek, Cannondale or Specialized thinks fits the average rider. The wheels have too few spokes for a lot of riders. And out the door with you. Want a substitution? That'll cost you. One of the reasons I don't buy bikes off the rack.


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## Lombard (May 8, 2014)

pmf said:


> A cm here or there isn't a world of difference.


In the world of bike fit, yes it is.



pmf said:


> If the guy is 5'9" and has normal body proportions, any of those bikes will fit him well enough.


There is no way a 58 frame will fit someone who is 5'9". This could not be more wrong.


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## Jay Strongbow (May 8, 2010)

Lombard said:


> In the world of bike fit, yes it is.
> 
> 
> 
> There is no way a 58 frame will fit someone who is 5'9". This could not be more wrong.


yes I'd have to agree on both counts.

I moved my saddle forward about a CM last year and there was definitely a significant difference.

I'm 5 8, not 5 9, but a 58 isn't even in the ballpark.


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## Lombard (May 8, 2014)

Jay Strongbow said:


> I'm 5 8, not 5 9, but a 58 isn't even in the ballpark.


And I am 5'10" with a 32" inseam and my size is a 56. A 58 is definitely too large for me.


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## pmf (Feb 23, 2004)

Lombard said:


> In the world of bike fit, yes it is.


We evidently live in different worlds. In my world, I can't tell the difference between latex and butyl tubes. Or 170mm vs 175mm cranks. I've been riding bikes for a long time. Along the way, I've tried a lot of things. I was riding/racing a monocoque carbon fiber Kestrel 200 Sci in the early 1990's and taking crap from the 'steel is real' crowd. Today I have four road bikes and only one of them is made of carbon fiber, and its 17 years old. The last bike I built up a couple years ago was a steel Colnago Arabesque. I've gone through literally dozens of road bikes of varying geometry, and I can tell you that a one cm difference in the distance from the center of the BB to the center of the TT (if that's even how the manufacturer measures it) matters much less than the geometry of the frame. In a few decades, if you stick with riding, this may become more clear to you. 



Lombard said:


> There is no way a 58 frame will fit someone who is 5'9". This could not be more wrong.


Who is generalizing now? I think he should sit on whatever bike he likes and see how it feels. There's easily a one cm discrepancy in the way one manufacturer measures frames compared to another. Or the drop/reach in handlebars. Or a post with or w/o setback. Knowing how tall the rider is, and what the manufacturer declares the frame size to be is pretty ballpark information to say 'a 5'9" person can fit on a 57 cm bike, but not a 58 cm bike'. False precision. 

Guess we scared the OP away ...


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## pmf (Feb 23, 2004)

And spending $200 to avoid a $600, $650 or $1050 mistake is a good investment. 

OK, so I want to buy this 15 year old Honda Odyessy mini van for $3000. I ask on a car website if these cars are dependable and I get the advice that I should spend $1000 on a mechanic to check out the car. This is good advice, no?


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## Lombard (May 8, 2014)

pmf said:


> Who is generalizing now? I think he should sit on whatever bike he likes and see how it feels. There's easily a one cm discrepancy in the way one manufacturer measures frames compared to another. Or the drop/reach in handlebars. Or a post with or w/o setback. *Knowing how tall the rider is, and what the manufacturer declares the frame size to be is pretty ballpark information to say 'a 5'9" person can fit on a 57 cm bike, but not a 58 cm bike'. False precision. *
> 
> Guess we scared the OP away ...


I never said a 5'9" person could fit on a 57 either. I think even that is a stretch.

Heck, we don't even know how tall the OP is much less what his inseam is. My point is, unless his correct size is actually a 57, it is highly unlikely he would fit on both a 56 and a 58. 2cm is a big difference in the world of bike fit. I'm not saying frame geometry isn't an important issue as well. It is. But "Making a bike fit" is a very poor decision.


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## pmf (Feb 23, 2004)

Lombard said:


> I never said a 5'9" person could fit on a 57 either. I think even that is a stretch.
> 
> Heck, we don't even know how tall the OP is much less what his inseam is. My point is, unless his correct size is actually a 57, it is highly unlikely he would fit on both a 56 and a 58. 2cm is a big difference in the world of bike fit. I'm not saying frame geometry isn't an important issue as well. It is. But "Making a bike fit" is a very poor decision.


I'm 5'9" and have owned bikes that are 55cm, 56cm, and 57cm. I thought they all fit well. Of course, WTF do I know?


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## wilboh (Apr 2, 2018)

pmf said:


> Out of curiosity, how tall are you? What's your inseam? Do you consider your body proportions to be average? An old rule of thumb is your inseam (in cm) times 2/3. If any one of these bikes is the right size, they'll all fit OK.


Sorry folks, didn't even mean to have that last bike attatched. The 58 would likely have been much to tall for me. I'm 5'10" (maybe 5'11" on a good day), relatively average body proprotions (I hope at least?). Inseam varies from 32-34 (at least in pant size), so perhaps taking a 33 average, which I believe averages around 56.

In addition to these bikes I'll be visiting some LBS this weekend to ask questions and do some test rides. My room-mate who is an avid biker said she would recommend that I not spend these types of prices on my first summer road bike and should look for something much cheaper to test the waters. However, I thought they were fairly reasonable compared to some of the others I had seen, and its very unlikely economical for me to buy a brand new one if that is the case as well. Thank you for your inputs, and I'd love any more advice or information you might have.


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## Jay Strongbow (May 8, 2010)

pmf said:


> And spending $200 to avoid a $600, $650 or $1050 mistake is a good investment.
> 
> OK, so I want to buy this 15 year old Honda Odyessy mini van for $3000. I ask on a car website if these cars are dependable and I get the advice that I should spend $1000 on a mechanic to check out the car. This is good advice, no?


That is a really poor analogy. Maybe had you added that you are 800 pounds or 7 feet and someone told you to pay to check the seats and headroom it would have at least been almost logical.


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## pmf (Feb 23, 2004)

Nah, $650 isn't that much to spend on a used bike. Most of us spend more than that on a set of wheels. The first two on your list seemed like pretty good bang for the buck. Keep in mind you need to buy a helmet, shoes and some clothes as well.


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## Fredrico (Jun 15, 2002)

wilboh said:


> Sorry folks, didn't even mean to have that last bike attatched. The 58 would likely have been much to tall for me. I'm 5'10" (maybe 5'11" on a good day), relatively average body proprotions (I hope at least?). Inseam varies from 32-34 (at least in pant size), so perhaps taking a 33 average, which I believe averages around 56.
> 
> In addition to these bikes I'll be visiting some LBS this weekend to ask questions and do some test rides. My room-mate who is an avid biker said she would recommend that I not spend these types of prices on my first summer road bike and should look for something much cheaper to test the waters. However, I thought they were fairly reasonable compared to some of the others I had seen, and its very unlikely economical for me to buy a brand new one if that is the case as well. Thank you for your inputs, and I'd love any more advice or information you might have.


Another vote for the Felt. Its 56 cm, the smallest of the choices and its got a long stem propped up. So you could raise the saddle up another inch or two and get a nice comfortable drop. Or flip the stem upside down and get a nice drop. 2 to 4 inches is optimum for most riders to achieve that magical fore-aft balance of 40% wgt. on bars, 60% on saddle. 

The Felt has a great reputation, not to say the Cannondale also gets good reports.. But the Felt is carbon [] with Ultegra components, the best choice. The wheels might be the weak link, but when or if the wheels go south, you could invest in a new set of wheels and transfer them to the next bike. 

Offer the seller a hundred $$ less and see what he says. In any case $650 is probably less than half MSRP when new, so yes, the Felt is a good deal. The brake surfaces on the rims are really clean, a sign the bike hasn't been ridden long enough for the brake pads to score them up. He probably rode it less than 50 miles, like he claims. So its good for another year of trouble free riding, plenty of time to contemplate the beast, riding a nice carbon bike that probably cost at least $1500, probably more like $2000 new.

Go to wrench science.com or colorado cyclist and tap into their fit recommendations to confirm the 56 cm choice. For the first bike, I'd skip paying $200 for a "professional[sic] fit." You can get it down pretty close with the fit programs, and fine tune fit as you ride. The 56 will be the best starting point if, as others are saying, you go from large to smaller frames as you get fit.


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## pmf (Feb 23, 2004)

Jay Strongbow said:


> That is a really poor analogy. .


No ... it's an EXCELLENT analogy.

Upon further reflection, its a better than excellent analogy. pat pat pat (sound of me patting myself on the back). I think I'll just go home early today.


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## Lombard (May 8, 2014)

pmf said:


> Nah, $650 isn't that much to spend on a used bike.* Most of us spend more than that on a set of wheels.*


Speak for yourself. I've never spent more than $650 on a wheelset.



pmf said:


> I'm 5'9" and have owned bikes that are 55cm, 56cm, and 57cm. I thought they all fit well. Of course,* WTF do I know?*


Most of us are trying to figure that out.


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## pmf (Feb 23, 2004)

Lombard said:


> Speak for yourself. I've never spent more than $650 on a wheelset.


Fear not. Some day you will get there, grasshopper.


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## Lombard (May 8, 2014)

pmf said:


> Fear not. Some day you will get there, grasshopper.


Nah. I'm a little smarter than that. :thumbsup:


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## wilboh (Apr 2, 2018)

Thank you immensely for this information. I truly appreciate it.

Response from the owner when I requested more info:
"Hello,

To be completely honest the bike maybe has 200 miles on it. I bought it when I graduated from college and thought road biking would be as enjoyable as Mountain, not the case.


The bike is in great to exceptional shape. I dinged the top tube with my shoe cleats and had the chip repaired. There is a blemish but the repair has held up for the last 3 years with no issues. I love the bike it just doesn't get used.


I still need to give the bike a spring tun-up but everything is ready to go."


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## Fredrico (Jun 15, 2002)

wilboh said:


> Thank you immensely for this information. I truly appreciate it.
> 
> Response from the owner when I requested more info:
> "Hello,
> ...


Aha! Dinged up top tube! :nono: That's your bargaining chip, right there. Spook the seller a little and he'll drop the price down another hundred! :thumbsup: 

Top tubes don't have to take up torsional forces [flex] hardly at all, so if the repair held up, take the chance!


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## pmf (Feb 23, 2004)

Tell him you'll take the bike for $600, and don't bother with the "spring tune up". A bike with 200 miles on it doesn't need a tune up. Looks like it has low miles and was well taken care of.


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