# Simeoni Returns National Champions Jersey



## ultimobici (Jul 16, 2005)

Just saw this

http://www.cyclingnews.com/news.php?id=news/2009/may09/may05news

Can't help wondering whether RCS is just pandering to the imminent arrival of LA at the Giro. Centenary Giro and no Italian Champion? Seems strange.


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## kbiker3111 (Nov 7, 2006)

Has Simeoni ever won a stage in the Giro? Has he ever placed in the top ten overall? I understand the importance of the national champion, but it seems like there is no reason to expect him or any of his teammates to influence the race. On the other hand, I don't know that Fuji-Servetto is a significantly stronger team.


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## robdamanii (Feb 13, 2006)

Another spoiled brat whining about the cool kids not including him.

At least last year Visconti made that jersey proud (wore the maglia rosa for several days), and that wouldn't be happening this year.


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## bikesarethenewblack (Dec 30, 2008)

robdamanii said:


> Another spoiled brat whining about the cool kids not including him.
> 
> At least last year Visconti made that jersey proud (wore the maglia rosa for several days), and that wouldn't be happening this year.


That' a unsubstantiated thing to say. The guy might be a lot of things, I have ZERO idea of how you get spoiled brat. Calm down, you know little to nothing on the guy.


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## 32and3cross (Feb 28, 2005)

robdamanii said:


> Another spoiled brat whining about the cool kids not including him.
> 
> At least last year Visconti made that jersey proud (wore the maglia rosa for several days), and that wouldn't be happening this year.


Yeah hes sure spoiled alright after being big enough to admit that he took drugs hes been scraping it out getting a few wins here and there (2 at the Vuelta that I remember) and now his National Championship mostly while on smaller second rate teams. I guess by "cool kids" you mean the people who think everyone should just keep their mouths about doping.


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## weltyed (Feb 6, 2004)

im certain this is off to the doping forum, but i will add anyway.

this is a great storyline. movie-of-the-week stuff. one has to wonder if he and his team would be racing the giro if armstrong had not come back. i know i could look it up, but does anyone know off-hand when the last time the giro did not include the italian national champ? 

other than a protest and publicity, what does returning the national champions jersey get him?


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## farm (Jul 10, 2008)

Yeah, this one's going to the doping forum. Note that on cyclingnews Zomegnan says Simeoni had 7 hours at MSR to talk to Lance about the 2004 incident and did not. ????

"I'm sorry for trying to get in a break and win a stage, Lance. I won't do it again. Please can I ride in the Giro?"

I won't be watching this race.


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## kbiker3111 (Nov 7, 2006)

This has to be some sort of record for being moved to doping.

Seriously though, it looks like he either needed to humble himself or let the legs do the talking and he did neither, fair or not.


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## uzziefly (Jul 15, 2006)

weltyed said:


> other than a protest and publicity, what does returning the national champions jersey get him?


He gets a thread right here on RBR and gets called a brat of course!


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## uzziefly (Jul 15, 2006)

farm said:


> Yeah, this one's going to the doping forum. Note that on cyclingnews Zomegnan says Simeoni had 7 hours at MSR to talk to Lance about the 2004 incident and did not. ????
> 
> "I'm sorry for trying to get in a break and win a stage, Lance. I won't do it again. Please can I ride in the Giro?"
> 
> I won't be watching this race.


Mmm ok. Coz Lance is racing or coz Simeoni isn't?

Either way, it'll still be a good race. Your loss that you'll be missing it I suppose.


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## lookrider (Dec 3, 2006)

kbiker3111 said:


> This has to be some sort of record for being moved to doping.
> 
> Seriously though, it looks like he either needed to humble himself or let the legs do the talking and he did neither, fair or not.


Let the legs do the talking?

*HE'S ITALIAN NATIONAL CHAMPION!!!!!!!!*

How many friends do you think he has in the peloton and he's winning the Italian National Championship? Sounds like a badass to me.

Wake up!


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## bikesarethenewblack (Dec 30, 2008)

kbiker3111 said:


> This has to be some sort of record for being moved to doping.
> 
> Seriously though, it looks like he either needed to humble himself or let the legs do the talking and he did neither, fair or not.


Can you think independently or are you just hooked up to a bull [email protected] machine?

The guy is the national champion of said country. His team is a second rate team, no doubt there, but his team is on par and possibly even better than some of the other wild card teams. All things being equal - it's an italian team with the italian national champ. It would be like not inviting Bissel to Tour of California if the ToC meant anything and had some historical perspective.

People need to get a clue. Is this the biggest sin ever? No. Is it unwarranted and silly that the guy isn't there? Yes.


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## rodster (Jun 29, 2006)

It would be interesting to look back the last 20 years and see how many other reigning Italian road champions didn't get an invite to the Giro.

It's not May 23rd I can smell Bologna already.


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## lookrider (Dec 3, 2006)

uzziefly said:


> He gets a thread right here on RBR and gets called a brat of course!


Honestly, tell me you *do* think it's absurd that Simeoni's team is not invited.


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## bikesarethenewblack (Dec 30, 2008)

rodster said:


> It would be interesting to look back the last 20 years and see how many other reigning Italian road champions didn't get an invite to the Giro.
> 
> It's not May 23rd I can smell Bologna already.



Easy - the national champ has been there every year but this one. Answered.


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## uzziefly (Jul 15, 2006)

lookrider said:


> Honestly, tell me you *do* think it's absurd that Simeoni's team is not invited.


If he got invited, how the hell would he get a thread here on RBR?

Now, which is better? Racing, and not winning the Giro, or having internet people talking about him?


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## mohair_chair (Oct 3, 2002)

robdamanii said:


> Another spoiled brat whining about the cool kids not including him.


He was only going to wear the jersey for another month anyway, so this is his way of getting maximum publicity for himself. 

Does he have any results for 2009 that would warrant his inclusion?


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## uzziefly (Jul 15, 2006)

bikesarethenewblack said:


> Easy - the national champ has been there every year but this one. Answered.


FTW!!


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## bikesarethenewblack (Dec 30, 2008)

mohair_chair said:


> He was only going to wear the jersey for another month anyway, so this is his way of getting maximum publicity for himself.
> 
> Does he have any results for 2009 that would warrant his inclusion?


Mincing hairs - and yea, it's a pun given your name - with that said the jersey is the jersey till after the giro - so the time is moot. Also, do you know how many world champ or national champs don't have good years while wearing the jersey? It's a lot, don't make me list them out and embarrass anyone, just accept it.

The guy should have been invited, no ifs ands or buts about it. Move along.


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## mohair_chair (Oct 3, 2002)

bikesarethenewblack said:


> Mincing hairs - and yea, it's a pun given your name - with that said the jersey is the jersey till after the giro - so the time is moot. Also, do you know how many world champ or national champs don't have good years while wearing the jersey? It's a lot, don't make me list them out and embarrass anyone, just accept it.
> 
> The guy should have been invited, no ifs ands or buts about it. Move along.


Well, he's still the national champion, even if he gives back the jersey. He won it fair and square, and as far as I know, they aren't going to erase his name from the books. The guy wearing the jersey is not the national champion--the national champion gets to wear the jersey. That's a not so subtle distinction.

I'm sure there are politics involved in the decision from RCS, but he could have put them in a position where they had to invite him. RCS invited him to Tirreno-Adriatico, where he should have been in the mix. Instead, he failed miserably, coming in a half hour down and eventually DNF. He wasted a prime opportunity, and his lack of any results for 2009 confirmed that he would just be taking up space in the Giro. Shed no tears for the underachiever. That's not what great races are made of.


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## bikesarethenewblack (Dec 30, 2008)

mohair_chair said:


> Well, he's still the national champion, even if he gives back the jersey. He won it fair and square, and as far as I know, they aren't going to erase his name from the books. The guy wearing the jersey is not the national champion--the national champion gets to wear the jersey. That's a not so subtle distinction.
> 
> I'm sure there are politics involved in the decision from RCS, but he could have put them in a position where they had to invite him. RCS invited him to Tirreno-Adriatico, where he should have been in the mix. Instead, he failed miserably, coming in a half hour down and eventually DNF. He wasted a prime opportunity, and his lack of any results for 2009 confirmed that he would just be taking up space in the Giro. Shed no tears for the underachiever. That's not what great races are made of.


So, by your logic, which I can not follow by the way - he is national champ, fair and square, he earned it, but since he DNF'd at Tirreno, a race of, what, 20% the stature of the national championships and 10% of the Giro he shouldn't be allowed in the Giro and politics should rule the day. This makes no sense. BTW, where has Ballan been? A virus is no reason why a world champ will miss any race. He wasn't a factor in ANY of the classics. He's an underachiever, shed no tears for him, that's not what great racers are made of.

Do you feel silly yet, or do you need me to keep going? The guy is the national champion of the country's tour - as long as his team hold an appropriate license he should be in - just let it go, cause I can keep splitting hairs all day . . . . .


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## MG537 (Jul 25, 2006)

farm said:


> Yeah, this one's going to the doping forum. Note that on cyclingnews Zomegnan says Simeoni had 7 hours at MSR to talk to Lance about the 2004 incident and did not. ????
> 
> "I'm sorry for trying to get in a break and win a stage, Lance. I won't do it again. Please can I ride in the Giro?"
> 
> I won't be watching this race.


If Angelo Zomegnan had a spine, he would've invited Ceranica Flaminia to the race. Then told them both "No shenanigans during the race. The past is the past." But unfortunately our friend Angelo went all "mushy" when corporate dollars or euros are at stake. Hence we get a cop-out of a statement like the one above.


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## mohair_chair (Oct 3, 2002)

bikesarethenewblack said:


> So, by your logic, which I can not follow by the way - he is national champ, fair and square, he earned it, but since he DNF'd at Tirreno, a race of, what, 20% the stature of the national championships and 10% of the Giro he shouldn't be allowed in the Giro and politics should rule the day. This makes no sense. BTW, where has Ballan been? A virus is no reason why a world champ will miss any race. He wasn't a factor in ANY of the classics. He's an underachiever, shed no tears for him, that's not what great racers are made of.
> 
> Do you feel silly yet, or do you need me to keep going? The guy is the national champion of the country's tour - as long as his team hold an appropriate license he should be in - just let it go, cause I can keep splitting hairs all day . . . . .


When you are on a second level team, you have to earn your way into the big race. RCS owns several smaller races, and if you impress them there, then chances are good that you'll make the big show. That's how it works. It's the same way with ASO. If you want to make the TDF, you need to impress at the smaller races they own, such as Paris-Nice, Criterium Internation, Paris-Roubaix, LBL, Qatar, etc.


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## rodster (Jun 29, 2006)

mohair_chair said:


> When you are on a second level team, you have to earn your way into the big race. RCS owns several smaller races, and if you impress them there, then chances are good that you'll make the big show. That's how it works. It's the same way with ASO. If you want to make the TDF, you need to impress at the smaller races they own, such as Paris-Nice, Criterium Internation, Paris-Roubaix, LBL, Qatar, etc.



. . . and if it looks like your big draw might get banned from racing in France, you re-route the event to avoid crossing the border.


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## Coolhand (Jul 28, 2002)

*Moderators Note*



bikesarethenewblack said:


> Can you think independently or are you just hooked up to a bull [email protected] machine?
> 
> The guy is the national champion of said country. His team is a second rate team, no doubt there, but his team is on par and possibly even better than some of the other wild card teams. All things being equal - it's an italian team with the italian national champ. It would be like not inviting Bissel to Tour of California if the ToC meant anything and had some historical perspective.
> 
> People need to get a clue. Is this the biggest sin ever? No. Is it unwarranted and silly that the guy isn't there? Yes.


Let's try and tone it down a bit- knock off the personal stuff and stick to the point.


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## lookrider (Dec 3, 2006)

uzziefly said:


> If he got invited, how the hell would he get a thread here on RBR?
> 
> Now, which is better? Racing, and not winning the Giro, or having internet people talking about him?


Any objectivity on the subject?


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## tron (Jul 18, 2004)

Why did this get moved to doping forum? and why is the doping forum buried at the end.


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## Bianchigirl (Sep 17, 2004)

Actually, with Gianpaolo Caruso (12th in 2006 and improving all the time) they looked a better bet on paper than the _Spanish_ team who were invited instead - and that in itself speaks volumes, that Zomengan would invite a second rate Spanish team instead of a second rate Italian team (and then more or less admit it's because of Armstrong). 

But this is a man who booted a small team at the last minute last year so that Astana could ride.

Still, we can all revel in the delicious irony that, because he paid Armstrong 2 million euros, he priced the TV rights beyond Versus' budget.


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## Circlip (Jul 26, 2005)

tron said:


> Why did this get moved to doping forum?


Whenever Lance and Simeoni get mentioned in the same sentence, it's about doping.



tron said:


> and why is the doping forum buried at the end.


Because the powers-that-be of RBR believe the discussion about doping is more embarrassing than the actual doping itself, and that it will create adverse business results for them in the commercial operation of this site to let the discussion take place in a more prominent position.


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## CabDoctor (Jun 11, 2005)

So I guess Contador should have returned his yellow jerseys when he couldn't ride the TDF. 

It's funny how I was called out when I said Simeoni was a D-Bag in this thread:

http://forums.roadbikereview.com/showthread.php?t=170522

But seriously, he needs to shut up and just win races.


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## robdamanii (Feb 13, 2006)

mohair_chair said:


> He was only going to wear the jersey for another month anyway, so this is his way of getting maximum publicity for himself.
> 
> Does he have any results for 2009 that would warrant his inclusion?


Nothing spectacular. 

The whining about the snub is stupid. It was stupid when people whined about Astana and the tour last year, and it's stupid now. Be a big boy, accept the consequences, and move on with life.

Edit: They should let the 2nd placed Italian rider wear it to represent it in the race. Spite Simeoni for being a dope about it.


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## serbski (Dec 2, 2002)

Once Simeoni "talked" at his trial I think he sealed his fate. No top squad would take on such a "controversial" rider (read: unpopular) so he is condemned to riding on a team that is unable to assist him in really being in the mix. It is quite easy to label him as a non-factor or failure subsequently and use this reasoning to further marginalize him and finally exclude him from the Giro. Why Armstrong didn't use this as a PR coup to play the conciliatory "kinder, gentler Lance" and use his influence to get Simeoni in the Giro surprises me. It would have effectively muzzled Simeoni and his squad was likely to give Astana much trouble...


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## mohair_chair (Oct 3, 2002)

Just for the fun of it, let's look at Simeoni's results in the pre-Giro RCS races:

Tirreno-Adriatico - stage 1 - finishes 7:14 behind
Tirreno-Adriatico - stage 2 - finishes 9:27 behind
Tirreno-Adriatico - stage 3 - finishes 1:54 behind
Tirreno-Adriatico - stage 4 - finishes 17:13 behind
Tirreno-Adriatico - stage 5 - finishes 6:29 behind (ITT)
Tirreno-Adriatico - stage 6 - DNS

Milano-Sanremo - DNF

Montepaschi Strade Bianche - Eroica Toscana - Did not participate

Now let's look at the most recent non-RCS races:

Giro del Trentino - stage 1 - finishes 1:10 behind (ITT)
Giro del Trentino - stage 2 - finishes 8:58 behind
Giro del Trentino - stage 3 - finishes 13:23 behind
Giro del Trentino - stage 4 - finishes 24:06 behind

Giro di Toscana - DNF (but was in the early break)

GP Industria & Artigianato-Larciano - finishes 12:00 behind

This guy might wear the jersey, but he brings no glory to it. He's pack-filler at best. Given a chance to impress, he failed miserably. There is nothing in his 2009 results what would make a race organizer think he would bring anything except a colorful jersey to a race. If this was any other rider, without the politics, it would be the same story.


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## serbski (Dec 2, 2002)

Oh, and I have yet to see him behave as a "d-bag". I imagine that his frustration at his situation over the past few years verges on driving him insane. Might be hard to refrain from starting to rant publicly and at least attempt to create some discomfort for the powers that be (who have only been complicit in his plight).


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## bikesarethenewblack (Dec 30, 2008)

mohair_chair said:


> This guy might wear the jersey, but he brings no glory to it. He's pack-filler at best. Given a chance to impress, he failed miserably. There is nothing in his 2009 results what would make a race organizer think he would bring anything except a colorful jersey to a race. If this was any other rider, without the politics, it would be the same story.


So spell it out for me, in VERY specific detail, on how this is better than Armstrong?

Waiting . . . . .


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## mohair_chair (Oct 3, 2002)

bikesarethenewblack said:


> So spell it out for me, in VERY specific detail, on how this is better than Armstrong?
> 
> Waiting . . . . .


I don't understand the question. What does Armstrong have to do with Simeoni's lack of results?


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## robdamanii (Feb 13, 2006)

serbski said:


> I imagine that his frustration at his situation over the past few years verges on driving him insane. Might be hard to refrain from starting to rant publicly and at least attempt to create some discomfort for the powers that be (who have only been complicit in his plight).


Yeah, that's really great. Last year when this happened to Astana, most people were indifferent, and really just wanted all the complainers to shut up, even though the previous winner, a hell of a lot more important than a national champion, was excluded. This time, because Lance is involved, it's a terrible injustice and the world will fall to ruin because of it.

It's going to be a fantastic race. Now I just need to find a way to watch it here in the states.


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## CabDoctor (Jun 11, 2005)

serbski said:


> Oh, and I have yet to see him behave as a "d-bag". I imagine that his frustration at his situation over the past few years verges on driving him insane. Might be hard to refrain from starting to rant publicly and at least attempt to create some discomfort for the powers that be (who have only been complicit in his plight).


Ranting is one thing, but sending your jersey back is a little to far. He's giving a bad name to italians right now being that he's they're national champion. He really just need to let the legs do the talking. Not to dry hump astana, but when they were excluded, they made it a point to win everything. He should do the same. That would speak way more volumes than returning the jersey every will.


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## goloso (Feb 4, 2004)

*He needs to grow up a bit*

I must say that I agree with pretty much every public position Simeoni has taken on doping. However, he does it in such an unappealing way that I find it pretty hard to sympathize with him. All the grandstanding at the Vuelta, Tour and now this really just discredits the anti-doping cause.

I don't think for a minute that Armstrong demanded that he be left off the start list. But it would not surprise me at all if RCS did it to be good hosts to the guy that is going to put quite a few euros in their pockets. 

-G


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## serbski (Dec 2, 2002)

I find Simeoni's exclusion from the Giro to be more a function of the omerta that exists in cycling as exhibited by riders and race organizers. I only mention Lance because he had a chance to "bury the hatchet" and score some PR points. I think that the Giro would have screwed Simeoni regardless of Armstrong's participation. The Astana/Tdf comparison is the proverbial apples and oranges. I can't recall when the French Nat'l Champ did not get an invite to the TdF (and then folks complain that sh*tty French squads get invited only because they are French or have their Nat'l Champ on the team but lack results). Simeoni has been marginalized within his sport and in the public perception and that is the real bottom line here.


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## mohair_chair (Oct 3, 2002)

CabDoctor said:


> Ranting is one thing, but sending your jersey back is a little to far. He's giving a bad name to italians right now being that he's they're national champion. He really just need to let the legs do the talking. Not to dry hump astana, but when they were excluded, they made it a point to win everything. He should do the same. That would speak way more volumes than returning the jersey every will.


He only gets the jersey until the next championships, which are roughly a month from now. During that month there is the Giro, and then there are only a few small, insignificant races, so he doesn't really have the opportunity to do much except train. And that's why his act was purely PR, and is a fairly savvy move. Giving back the jersey is his last ditch attempt to extract the most publicity possible out of it, because nobody is going to see him racing in it while his term expires anyway. But lots of people who couldn't name the national champion now know who he is. Good for him.


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## CabDoctor (Jun 11, 2005)

He should have just thrown his burning jersey onto the open streets of the prologue and the cried a lot while crying viva la Giro i.e. tricky dicky


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## mohair_chair (Oct 3, 2002)

serbski said:


> I can't recall when the French Nat'l Champ did not get an invite to the TdF


Considering the TDF doesn't know who the French National Champion is going to be when the invites go out, I'm willing to bet that this has happened. The National Championships are held about a week before the TDF.


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## serbski (Dec 2, 2002)

mohair_chair said:


> Considering the TDF doesn't know who the French National Champion is going to be when the invites go out, I'm willing to bet that this has happened. The National Championships are held about a week before the TDF.



Very good point and point taken. I still stand by my belief that the Giro organizers are behaving as if they are bound by Omerta whereas the TdF (at least recently) has taken steps to make dopers unwelcome (and conversely not punish riders who are vocal in their stance against doping). 
Does anyone (Bianchigirl?) have any info on how the French Nat'l Champ generally seems to be at the TdF? Maybe it's simply a result of the riders most likely to become champ ride for teams that are Pro Tour or very likely to get a wildcard nod.


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## pianopiano (Jun 4, 2005)

*Shameful Human Behaviour*

I support Simeoni 100% on this issue. It is disgusting how he has been treated, and absolutely ridiculous that people on this forum feel the need to have to resort to inane and immature name calling in response to his unfortunate situation. He did nothing at all to deserve being called those names. He won the Italian National Championship fairly and squarely, against 'supposedly' superior competition. All of this is just another clearly example of the control and power of higher powers, and the fact that you just can't escape the mighty omerta that exists in professional cycling (among other sports)

He returned the jersey out of frustration and disgust, and I can not blame him one bit. I am sure that *most* of you out there, if faced with a similar situation, would be very tempted to do the same. I know that I would.


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## mtbbmet (Apr 2, 2005)

I don't know why they would invite low budget Spanish teams over a low budget Italian team. Perhaps there was some sort of Spanish TV deal worked out, money changing hands? Who knows? This sport is all about money, and I'm sure that money was the deciding factor.
I don't think that because a team has a Nat Champ that they should automatically be invited to the Giro.
Here's my burning question.
Is it not a UCI rule that the current World and National champs MUST wear their champs jersey in ANY UCI sanctioned event? Obviously in the same discipline, and provided that they are not the leader of a competition. So if he races in a UCI event he is required to wear the jersey or face fine/disqualification. Not that there are many events between now and the 3rd week of June.
Did I make that up?


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## lookrider (Dec 3, 2006)

robdamanii said:


> Yeah, that's really great. Last year when this happened to Astana, most people were indifferent, and really just wanted all the complainers to shut up, even though the previous winner, a hell of a lot more important than a national champion, was excluded. This time, because Lance is involved, it's a terrible injustice and the world will fall to ruin because of it.
> 
> It's going to be a fantastic race. Now I just need to find a way to watch it here in the states.


When it happened to Astana?:lol: Wasn't old Astana a disgraced team. Isn't a large portion of the current Astana connected to doping in one way or another. Bruyneel showed he was really against doping when he hired ET for Discovery while he was under a cloud, eh?

Simeoni's team was excluded because of a personal vendetta.

A little bit different.


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## lookrider (Dec 3, 2006)

piano said:


> I support Simeoni 100% on this issue. It is disgusting how he has been treated, and absolutely ridiculous that people on this forum feel the need to have to resort to inane and immature name calling in response to his unfortunate situation. He did nothing at all to deserve being called those names. He won the Italian National Championship fairly and squarely, against 'supposedly' superior competition. All of this is just another clearly example of the control and power of higher powers, and the fact that you just can't escape the mighty omerta that exists in professional cycling (among other sports)
> 
> He returned the jersey out of frustration and disgust, and I can not blame him one bit. I am sure that *most* of you out there, if faced with a similar situation, would be very tempted to do the same. I know that I would.


If you keep making sense you're going to be exiled to Siberia. 

No logic or morality permitted here.


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## robdamanii (Feb 13, 2006)

lookrider said:


> When it happened to Astana?:lol: Wasn't old Astana a disgraced team. Isn't a large portion of the current Astana connected to doping in one way or another. Bruyneel showed he was really against doping when he hired ET for Discovery while he was under a cloud, eh?
> 
> Simeoni's team was excluded because of a personal vendetta.
> 
> A little bit different.


The comparison lies in that it is an important jersey holder.

And Simeoni's team was excluded in for the reasons of not being competitive and for monetary reasons. Those are good enough reasons in my book.


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## lookrider (Dec 3, 2006)

robdamanii said:


> The comparison lies in that it is an important jersey holder.


And if you got that jersey with a cloud of accusations and suspicion hanging over you?



robdamanii said:


> And Simeoni's team was excluded in for the reasons of not being competitive and for monetary reasons. Those are good enough reasons in my book.


By most accounts there are even less competitive Spanish teams which have been admitted.

Monetary reasons?

Are you kidding? That's the worst possible reason in sports. So much for deciding this stuff on the field of play.


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## FondriestFan (May 19, 2005)

CabDoctor said:


> He really just need to let the legs do the talking.


Hey chief, he COULDN'T LET HIS LEGS DO THE TALKING BECAUSE HE WAS EXCLUDED FROM THE BIGGEST RACE IN ITALY.

Zomengan's words indirectly revealed the reason for the exclusion. He ran afowl of Armstrong and his ego.

The day he chased down Simeoni was a disgraceful day in cycling. Deep down inside, everyone knows it, even the Lance fanboys. Analysis of that event separated the fans of the sport from the fans of the man.


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## mohair_chair (Oct 3, 2002)

lookrider said:


> So much for deciding this stuff on the field of play.


If you really want to decide this stuff on the field of play, then Simeoni still doesn't deserve a spot in the Giro, because on the field of play, Simeoni has nothing but pathetic results for 2009. He was off the back in every race he was in. Usually way off the back. On the field of play, he is a failure. That makes it really easy to exclude him.

If he had won a race this year, or come close, or done anything of note, he might have a case. As it is, all he has to show for 2009 is a fancy jersey that he earned last year, and a giant chip on his shoulder. Results matter. If I want to watch the national champion get spit out the back, I'll watch the GP Industria & Artigianato-Larciano. I don't need to see that at the Giro.


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## robdamanii (Feb 13, 2006)

lookrider said:


> And if you got that jersey with a cloud of accusations and suspicion hanging over you?
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I can't help it if there's "clouds of suspicion" or not. If there are such "clouds" why is he racing this year in the Tour?

It is very much monetary. People are excited about the Giro, and it ain't because of Simi. And for that reason, they do not care about Simi.

You're honestly not so delusional that you figure that Lance would forego this race if Simi was in it, are you?


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## bigpinkt (Jul 20, 2006)

It appears some are obsessing over Simeoni's lack of results as justification, that is nothing more then a strawman.

Simeoni was not kept out of the Giro, his TEAM was. While Simeoni may not be having his best season it is hard to say that powerhouse teams like Galicia-Xacobea and ISD deserved a spot over Flaminia.


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## mohair_chair (Oct 3, 2002)

bigpinkt said:


> It appears some are obsessing over Simeoni's lack of results as justification, that is nothing more then a strawman.
> 
> Simeoni was not kept out of the Giro, his TEAM was. While Simeoni may not be having his best season it is hard to say that powerhouse teams like Galicia-Xacobea and ISD deserved a spot over Flaminia.


A strawman? Hardly. There are plenty of posts in this thread saying Simeoni should be in the race simply because he is the national champion. And when he returned his jersey, he himself said, "It is unacceptable that the Italian champion cannot compete in the biggest event in his country."

The only compelling reason to invite Flaminia over Galicia-Xacobea or ISD is because they have the national champion on their roster. But if all the national champion ever does is get spit out the back of the race, then there is no reason to invite Flaminia. Simeoni's lack of results, and the controversy that follows him have doomed his team. The Giro doesn't need any pack filler.


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## lookrider (Dec 3, 2006)

robdamanii said:


> It is very much monetary. People are excited about the Giro, and it ain't because of Simi. And for that reason, they do not care about Simi.
> 
> You're honestly not so delusional that you figure that Lance would forego this race if Simi was in it, are you?


Where do you come up with this stuff?


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## bigpinkt (Jul 20, 2006)

mohair_chair said:


> The only compelling reason to invite Flaminia over Galicia-Xacobea or ISD is because they have the national champion on their roster. But if all the national champion ever does is get spit out the back of the race, then there is no reason to invite Flaminia. Simeoni's lack of results, and the controversy that follows him have doomed his team. The Giro doesn't need any pack filler.


Wrong (Again) 

I wouldn't expect you to know this as it appears you do not follow the sport but in addition to the reigning Italian national champ Flaminia has Giampaolo Caruso who not only was 12th in the Giro but is clearly on form right now. He was 7th at Giro del Trentino last week, mixing it up daily with Basso, Garzelli, and beating De Lucca in the GC. 

In the UCI Europe Tour They are currently ranked 8th, ahead of Barloworld, ISD, Acqua & Sapone,. Xacobeo Galicia is way down in 23rd and is bringing a bunch of washed up Spaniards to follow wheels and ride in the grupetto, while Flaminia has been an animator in Italian races all season.


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## serbski (Dec 2, 2002)

"He's giving a bad name to italians right now being that he's they're national champion" 

Off the top of my head (so please excuse spelling) here are a few Italians who are giving (or have recently given) Italians a bad name...

Basso, Mazzolini, Sella, Di Luca, Ricco, Piepoli, Petacchi, Rebellin, Dr Ferrari, Dr Chechini, Moreni, Cucinotta and Bastianelli...

Yet Simeoni is publicly pilloried for his actions.


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## serbski (Dec 2, 2002)

FondriestFan said:


> Hey chief, he COULDN'T LET HIS LEGS DO THE TALKING BECAUSE HE WAS EXCLUDED FROM THE BIGGEST RACE IN ITALY.
> 
> Zomengan's words indirectly revealed the reason for the exclusion. He ran afowl of Armstrong and his ego.
> 
> The day he chased down Simeoni was a disgraceful day in cycling. Deep down inside, everyone knows it, even the Lance fanboys. Analysis of that event separated the fans of the sport from the fans of the man.



Agreed. Way agreed.


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## alexb618 (Aug 24, 2006)

i love the politics of professional cycling

you couldnt script this stuff


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## MG537 (Jul 25, 2006)

alexb618 said:


> i love the politics of professional cycling
> 
> you couldnt script this stuff


The funniest thing with this soap opera, is that despite Lance's participation in the 100th edition of the Giro, the race still won't be televised in the US, where it matters most to LA and his "fans".


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## weltyed (Feb 6, 2004)

MG537 said:


> The funniest thing with this soap opera, is that despite Lance's participation in the 100th edition of the Giro, the race still won't be televised in the US, where it matters most to LA and his "fans".


BOOM shackalacka!


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## weltyed (Feb 6, 2004)

uzziefly said:


> He gets a thread right here on RBR and gets called a brat of course!


come on, uzzie. ive made mention of this is the past.
started this thread:
http://forums.roadbikereview.com/showthread.php?t=170522
and commeneted early on i was excited to see LA and Sim race in italy while Sim was wearing the italian "chump" jersey.

sidebar now that we are totally devoted in to doping discussions: there is no tour of the US. but if there were, what would they do about tylers jersey? maybe tour of mizz will shed some light...


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## bikesarethenewblack (Dec 30, 2008)

FondriestFan said:


> The day he chased down Simeoni was a disgraceful day in cycling. Deep down inside, everyone knows it, even the Lance fanboys. Analysis of that event separated the fans of the sport from the fans of the man.


This is so true. I do not see how any educated person can look at what happened that day - and then subsequent discussion by Armstrong - and see it as anything but mean, spiteful, bullying. It was a day that doping won and anyone who spoke out against doping lost.


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## robdamanii (Feb 13, 2006)

weltyed said:


> come on, uzzie. ive made mention of this is the past.
> started this thread:
> http://forums.roadbikereview.com/showthread.php?t=170522
> and commeneted early on i was excited to see LA and Sim race in italy while Sim was wearing the italian "chump" jersey.
> ...


I wondered about that, since he was banned/busted/retired, if the jersey went to the next placed finisher?


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## FondriestFan (May 19, 2005)

MG537 said:


> The funniest thing with this soap opera, is that despite Lance's participation in the 100th edition of the Giro, the race still won't be televised in the US, where it matters most to LA and his "fans".


Honestly, I don't really think this matters to a lot of Lance "fans". My impression is that many of them don't really follow cycling. They just like to see the results with Armstrong on top.


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## terzo rene (Mar 23, 2002)

Where all the excuses for Simeoni & Co's exclusion go out the window is when the team that gets the slot is a full on dope squad, and sporting ethics are supposed to be one of the 2 criteria. 

Also Zomegan saying Simeoni should have extended the olive branch at MSR is disigenuous at best since in an interview in Bicisport right after the natl champs it was clear Simeoni had already tried a few times. It's not too surprising he would go groveling to try and get a paycheck again.

Even you ostriches know he's a vindictive bastard in your hearts so I'll let you guess whether LA ever responded to any of those overtures.

I think it's absolutely hilarious it won't even be on Versus, or RAI International, this year. Though I kind of wanted to see Basso drop LA like a rock. Even the new improved doped up LA is still way over his best weight. Of course we all know he's really aiming for the Tour and denying Contador a victory. Shouldn't be too hard since his contract with Ferrari prohibits him working with any other contenders. "Sorry Alberto, the doctor is out until August." HAHAHA


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