# Steel frame -- Surly or Soma or Salsa .. or?



## martinman (Jul 25, 2008)

In the market for a new road steel frame and was leaning toward the Surly Pacer. Before I pull the trigger, are there any other frames / manufacturers I should be looking at? 

Must have: 
Relaxed geometry
Fit 25c tires (or better)

Any suggestions?
mm


----------



## cs1 (Sep 16, 2003)

The Pacer is a nice ride. It's nothing special but it's a good solid ride. It will fit up to 32C tires. Good luck


----------



## Salsa_Lover (Jul 6, 2008)

I have seen pics of the Soma Stanyan and it is a beautiful frame made for wide tyres


----------



## esldude (Jan 3, 2009)

Gunnar Sport would be the relaxed geometry you are looking for, and will take up to 28C tires with fenders and 32C without. A bit more, but made in the USA by Waterford using True Temper OX platinum tubing. 

Sport – The Miles Bring Smiles!


----------



## M-theory (Jul 16, 2009)

..................


----------



## bigman (Nov 30, 2004)

If really relaxed check out the Salsa Casseroll


----------



## MetalSlug (Nov 10, 2008)

My post count is too low to add the link but take a look at the Raleigh International frameset on their website. Lugged Reynolds 853 steel.


----------



## sculpin (Sep 12, 2009)

MetalSlug said:


> My post count is too low to add the link but take a look at the Raleigh International frameset on their website. Lugged Reynolds 853 steel.


It's a beautiful frame, but I think it's around $1500.00 or so, whereas I think the Pacer is $475.00...


----------



## Reynolds531 (Nov 8, 2002)

martinman said:


> In the market for a new road steel frame and was leaning toward the Surly Pacer. Before I pull the trigger, are there any other frames / manufacturers I should be looking at?
> 
> Must have:
> Relaxed geometry
> ...


I bought a 1987 Trek 560 frame in great shape for $120 delivered. Nicer frame than the Pacer There are a lot of great steel frames with Pacer geometry from the late 80's, many are better quality for less money, even with a new powder coat


----------



## savagemann (Dec 17, 2011)

I just built up a Soma Smoothie in February.
Have about 500 miles on it so far and loving every second.
It will take up to 28mm tires.
At first I was worried about the extra weight of a steel bike, but it is not an issue for me.
Between the 17.5lbs carbon bike, 20lbs aluminum bike and the Smoothie, I grab the steel for almost every ride.
The ride quality is just amazing, for a relatively moderate priced frame.
Mine is built up pretty heavy with 32-36h spoked wheels. I think it weighs in around 22lbs with 25mm gatorskins.


----------



## DJT21 (May 22, 2011)

A Genesis Equilibrium. Great frame, light, stiff, cheap, relaxed head angle, fits wide tyres, climbs well, really smooth, probably about half the weight of a surly! - ideal.


----------



## martinman (Jul 25, 2008)

Thanks everyone for the suggestions. I'm coming from a Specialized Tarmac (all carbon) and it's just too much of a racer bike. Don't get me wrong, I really like the ride, but the geometry is too aggressive and it's aggravating my back. So, I'm just going to swap over what I can from the tarmac over to the new frame.

BTW, what does 'lugged' mean in reference to older steel frames?


----------



## Lawfarm (Jun 4, 2010)

In the realm of relaxed geometry, I'd say that--from a riding perspective, it's something like this:

Relaxed
Salsa Pistola (used)
Surly Pacer
Salsa Casseroll
Surly Long Haul Trucker
Really Relaxed

All will fit 25c tires or larger. The Pacer is a great bike with nice handling characteristics. Hard to go wrong with it. Unless you're looking for a more touring-oriented bike, go with the Pacer.


----------



## tihsepa (Nov 27, 2008)

I have owned a Pacer, Casseroll (old) and my Soma Smoothie. The Soma is far and away the best riding out of all of them. 
Here it is after a bath last night. Ready for todays ride. I love the ride on this bike.


----------



## martinman (Jul 25, 2008)

Nice tihsepa -- I like the smoothie too. 

I'm sure the carbon fork helps with the ride quality. Seems like the smoothie is the only one that comes with an (optional) carbon fork. Now... 

Smoothie w/ carbon fork vs. Pacer. Hmm.....


----------



## tihsepa (Nov 27, 2008)

martinman said:


> Nice tihsepa -- I like the smoothie too.
> 
> I'm sure the carbon fork helps with the ride quality. Seems like the smoothie is the only one that comes with an (optional) carbon fork. Now...
> 
> Smoothie w/ carbon fork vs. Pacer. Hmm.....


Actually, it dosent really come with any fork. I will probably pick up the Soma steel fork for it though. I run Vittoria Open Corsas in a 25 and they are really good for the ride. 
Its really a smooth bike.


----------



## DJT21 (May 22, 2011)

I'd go for an Genesis Equilibrium (if you can get them where you live, I'm assumng its the states?) Theres a few sites selling them for £240.

I used to have a Surly (a crosscheck, not a pacer) and it rode nicely although I found it pretty flexy when pushing hard. I imagine the Pacer will be similar since the tubeset looks the same, as does the Somas. 

If you're coming from a carbon frame then I'd say you want something thats going to be quite stiff around the BB area.


----------



## martinman (Jul 25, 2008)

DJT21 - Yah, in the states. I did a quick search but couldn't find any us distributors. Any idea? I'm only interested in the frame too.


----------



## DJT21 (May 22, 2011)

Try ukbikesdepot or winstanleysbikes, I think both will ship abroad


----------



## Reynolds531 (Nov 8, 2002)

martinman said:


> Thanks everyone for the suggestions. I'm coming from a Specialized Tarmac (all carbon) and it's just too much of a racer bike. Don't get me wrong, I really like the ride, but the geometry is too aggressive and it's aggravating my back. So, I'm just going to swap over what I can from the tarmac over to the new frame.
> 
> BTW, what does 'lugged' mean in reference to older steel frames?


Lugged is a method of joining tubes illustrated on the Trek 510 below, left. Frame tubes are inserted into the lugs and the joint is brazed. It's not done much anymore because Tig welding, below right, is now less expensive, produces joints that are as strong as lugged construction, and is slightly lighter.

Lugged construction was popular because the equipment required is inexpensive and brazing skills were easier to find and cheaper to hire than Tig welders.


----------



## rlrj (Nov 17, 2005)

*Jamis Quest*

I'm very happy with the 2011 Jamis Quest I bought last month at a leftover price. I'm running 28 mm vittorria rubino pro tires and its a smooth fairly quick ride for me.


----------



## Turbo_5 (Mar 31, 2012)

Or go the whole hog and order yourself a Waterford...but bring some cash!

I've always enjoyed the ride of a good cro-moly frame bike. You'll probably enjoy it alot too. Does not have the image of Carbon but may indeed last longer.


----------



## chrisclougherty (Mar 23, 2007)

You can get Waterford quality, made in the same plant by the same people with the same material, when you get a Gunnar for $500.00 less. I've had two Gunnars and they are great. For what you describe look at the Gunnar Sport. Relaxed, comfy geometry, up to 32c tires, and even has built-in rack mounts.


----------



## froze (Sep 15, 2002)

Salsa_Lover said:


> I have seen pics of the Soma Stanyan and it is a beautiful frame made for wide tyres



I agree, the Soma has lugs and the front two on the head tube are chromed which adds artistic flare in my opinion. I think it's a great looking bike that has also received high reviews. Put the bike together with silver rims and aluminum components instead of carbon black crap and you have a very nice looking bike that would look more expensive then it really was. You would have to buy a Atlantis and spend at least another $500 more and still not get chromed lugs.


----------



## PSC (Mar 10, 2004)

Also look at the Soma ES(Extra Smooth).


----------



## Love Commander (Aug 20, 2009)

martinman said:


> Nice tihsepa -- I like the smoothie too.
> 
> I'm sure the carbon fork helps with the ride quality. Seems like the smoothie is the only one that comes with an (optional) carbon fork. Now...
> 
> Smoothie w/ carbon fork vs. Pacer. Hmm.....


IRD Mosaic 57 carbon fork w/ 45mm rake is almost an exact match for the Pacer fork, depending on where you're getting the info. Surly's site has some conflicting information about that particular fork.


----------



## martinman (Jul 25, 2008)

Everyone -- thanks for the suggestions.

I did quite a bit of research going between surly and soma. In the end, I decided to go with... gunnar!

I have a local dealer here that I can buy through. They did my original fit for my tarmac too. So, I feel very comfortable making a fit decision with them (sport vs roadie, custom vs non-custom). I talked to them at length about options. The gunnar is made here in the good ole USA, and from what I understand, gunnar was started by a "schwin" (who'd have thunk?!). 

True, I did blow my budget... But what the heck. I'm gonna have this bike for a long time, so why not, eh?


----------



## chrisclougherty (Mar 23, 2007)

I think you'll be happy with your choice. It's a great quality bike. Congratulations.

Waterford/Gunnar was started by a Schwinn -- Richard, in fact, who still owns it.

Enjoy your bike


----------



## jpatkinson (Jun 10, 2007)

Nice choice! I just ordered my first Gunnar about 10 days ago -- I went with a Roadie, since it perfectly matched the geometry of my (stolen) LeMond Sarthe (which felt pretty relaxed to me). I will look forward to seeing your build.


----------



## Jay Strongbow (May 8, 2010)

If you are open to blowing your budget even more from what you described and Indy Fab club racer would be a great choice.

Gunnars are really nice though though. also a great choice.


----------



## Evan Bacon (Aug 15, 2008)

DJT21 said:


> I'd go for an Genesis Equilibrium (if you can get them where you live, I'm assumng its the states?) Theres a few sites selling them for £240.
> 
> I used to have a Surly (a crosscheck, not a pacer) and it rode nicely although I found it pretty flexy when pushing hard. I imagine the Pacer will be similar since the tubeset looks the same, as does the Somas.
> 
> If you're coming from a carbon frame then I'd say you want something thats going to be quite stiff around the BB area.


The Soma's use Tange Prestige tubes which are heat treated.


----------



## Evan Bacon (Aug 15, 2008)

My ES fits 33mm Jack browns with fenders no problem.


----------



## powerful_pete (Apr 7, 2012)

Does the OP have a specific budget?


----------



## DJT21 (May 22, 2011)

> I did quite a bit of research going between surly and soma. In the end, I decided to go with... gunnar!


Good choice, they look proper!



> The Soma's use Tange Prestige tubes which are heat treated.


It doesnt really matter if its heat treated tange prestige tubes or not. Its the diameter of them, they look too small and hence thats what makes them flexy.


----------



## gigemaggs99 (Aug 5, 2004)

tihsepa said:


> I have owned a Pacer, Casseroll (old) and my Soma Smoothie. The Soma is far and away the best riding out of all of them.
> Here it is after a bath last night. Ready for todays ride. I love the ride on this bike.


Very nice build. What headset did you go with? 

You also said you might go w/ a steel fork at a later date, any suggestions on which one you might like?

I'm looking at the Soma Smoothie w/ the Soma IRD Mosaic Carbon Fork. Which headset would you suggest? Or how do you go about knowing which headset is correct?

Thanks.


----------



## Pacer1 (May 21, 2012)

Kind of late on the post but I've got to tell you I have a Surly Pacer and I love it. I've got a Tiagra triple group on it which came off my trek 1200 Mavic wheel set with 28s on it and it has to be the smoothest thing going. I'm 230 pounds and there are a ton of hills where I ride and I have no frame flex issues. I'd highly recommend the Pacer to anyone looking for a relaxed comfortable all day ride.


----------



## rider9 (May 27, 2011)

I bought a used Soma Smoothie frame and built it up. I love it. I cannot say that the ride is better or not for any other steel frame, because I don't have any other.

I can compare it to my Cannondale Synapse 7 aluminum frame. It is far and away better than the Cannondale.

I rode it on RAGBRAI for 468 miles without a problem. Love the ride! I put a cheap Nashbar carbon fork on it (aluminum steer tube), Campagnolo Veloce group, and BWW wheels.


----------



## Ab24029 (Feb 20, 2006)

*Genesis*

Anyone knows where I could get a Genesis Equilibrium 20 in the USA?.

I am planning to add another bike to my stable , light steel (Reynolds 725) , relaxed geometry that will fit fenders and a rear rack for fast long distance and winter riding .

The closest bikes in USA are:
Gunner Sport(too much $),
Jamis Quest( too sloping tube)
Soma Smoothie ES( ???)-

Thanks.


----------

