# Who makes the best steel bike frames?



## crazytooguy (Aug 26, 2005)

OK, probably not an original question, but...

I really like steel frames, but I want a very light, responsive frame. The builder I was most familiar with and had planned to get a frame from was Anvil Bikeworks, but now he no longer builds frames, just framebuilding tools. So, who are the top of the game in steel framebuilding?


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## Einstruzende (Jun 1, 2004)

Richard Sachs in my opinion. You'll have to wait something like 5 years for one though.

Outside of that, there are so many good builders out there that I don't want to name any more else I risk forgetting other deserving folks.


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## FatTireFred (Jan 31, 2005)

anvil hasn't madeframes for years... you will get numerous answers, few will be incorrect


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## terry b (Jan 29, 2004)

Lugged or not?


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## handsomerob (Oct 5, 2005)

terry b said:


> Lugged or not?


If you want something well made, light, and responsive, I would consider a Reynolds 953 Waterford R-33. This would be TIG welded.


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## Len J (Jan 28, 2004)

Sachs, Vanilla....5 yr wait
Kirk, Goodrich, Strong, Zancanto, LLewelwyn, Strong,

See Next wave on Richrd's site http://www.richardsachs.com/rsachslinks.html (about half way down).

Great time to be looking for steel.

Len


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## Forrest Root (Dec 22, 2006)

Whoever makes the one you like and/or the one that fits you best. Otherwise there's absolutely no way to say which is best.


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## scwolf (Mar 27, 2007)

For traditional road frame I'd also like to throw in David Kirk (lugged and fillet brazing) and for creative retro try Tony Pereira (fillet only). I have a Pereira on order right now.

I've heard good things from my friends who've ordered from Kish as well.


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## terrafirma (Dec 16, 2005)

Not an independent fabrication like the others mentioned but check out the Bianchi Virata. Steel AND it has a carbon rear triangle! Combined with that celeste color...oh man, one cool frame.


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## crazytooguy (Aug 26, 2005)

Thanks, guys. I know it's a wide open question. I just wanted some suggestions to start looking. I've noticed that Rock Lobster makes a nice steel frameset for a nice price. I'll check out the others as well. Oh, and Terry - probably Tig'd. I want something smooth and light. Thanks!


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## JohnnyChance (Dec 13, 2006)

inglis/retrotec makes some very nice lookin bikes for hard to beat custom steel prices.


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## terry b (Jan 29, 2004)

crazytooguy said:


> Oh, and Terry - probably Tig'd. I want something smooth and light. Thanks!


Then call Carl Strong.


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## Hairnet (Dec 17, 2006)

crazytooguy said:


> OK, probably not an original question, but...
> 
> I really like steel frames, but I want a very light, responsive frame. The builder I was most familiar with and had planned to get a frame from was Anvil Bikeworks, but now he no longer builds frames, just framebuilding tools. So, who are the top of the game in steel framebuilding?


USA - Hampsten (uses Richard Sachs lugs)

Italy - Billato Bros (built for Lemond and many others)

Canada - Marinoni

Belguim - Merckx


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## djg (Nov 27, 2001)

Depends ... taste, function, etc., etc.

For stock and/or custom/made-to-measure, in the US, there are quite a few choices. If you want something this year -- this season -- from a quality, experienced shop, I'd start by looking at Serotta. Serotta steel is TIG welded these days, but nicely done, and they have the latest steel pipes, tons of experience building race bikes, and also considerable experience building all sorts of other bikes for the road (rando, touring, sport, etc.) Their steel frame (CDA can be all steel or with CF stays) is a relative bargain. Great bikes, IMO (I have a couple).

Spectrum Cycles (Tom Kellog and Jeff Duser) are a smaller shop (it's just them) with a serious track record (figuratively and literally, as they've built many championship track bikes in addition to road bikes). I've never had a Spectrum, although the ones I've seen look great and I have a couple of friends who ride them and love them. They do lugs, btw, if that matters to you. Here, too, you might get better turnaround (if longer than Serotta) than the multi-year waits you see from Sachs, Vanilla, etc.

Sachs and Vanilla. These look great, with some Vanillas looking especially hot. Fab reps, Sachs has been around a fair bit longer. 4-5 years wait list.

Kirk -- I think that Dave Kirk, who used to be with Serotta, has also been seeing increasingly long lines for his work.

Strong -- good solid rep for well made TIG welded steel frames (as well as Ti).

DeSalvo, Zanconato -- newer, but also with good reps, lower prices, and shorter wait times than some alternatives.

For stock bikes, Pegoretti has some that are just cool as anything, but you need to check into availability (he also does made-to-measure, but has had health problems, for which I wish him well, which may prompt delays).

So all of these have their fans, as do bigger shops like IF, and other smaller builders.

If it were me, and I wanted delivery this year, I'd look at the top two on my list, but YMMV.


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## MR_GRUMPY (Aug 21, 2002)

If you look at Waterford, you will see that they make lugged and tig welded frames. All custom (at a very good price). BTW, none of their bikes have those sissy carbon rear stays. They also make a "Gunnar" line of bikes that are not custom, but are $400 cheaper.(Same tubesets, same builders, same painters...but you are limited to only 5 colors)


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## Guest (Jul 8, 2007)

There must be a few sexy steel frames out there in production at the moment.....if fact just thinking about them makes me salivate.

Hard to find though I think, especially here in Oz.

Some thoughts.

Gios compact pro
Cinelli new supercorsa
De Rosa Corum
De Rosa Neo Primato
Colnago Master
Olmo Millennium

Of course some of them are lugged and some TIG'd...it is a matter of taste.

I am really thinking about getting a custom steel frame built by Baum here in Oz. I fear it is just a pure self indulgence but it is so tempting  .


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## refund!? (Oct 16, 2006)

There are loads of used Reynolds 531, 753, & 853, and Columbus SL frames setting around waiting for a new home. And that's where your search should begin. Otherwise, Torelli & Salsa have "very" nice ready-made frames that are as good as any, and Mark Nobilette, is a fine choice for a custom. 

The truth is, if you could ride all the responses' recommended frames with the same build without knowing which was what, you most likely wouldn't be able to tell the difference. So, you're right, it's not an original question. Nor does it have an answer.


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## waterford (Sep 30, 2004)

pegoretti
sachs
zanconatto


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## Sixty Fiver (Jul 7, 2007)

"There are loads of used Reynolds 531, 753, & 853, and Columbus SL frames setting around waiting for a new home. And that's where your search should begin"

Excellent advice and something I was going to suggest...

I only ride vintage road bikes and one common feature of nearly all of them is their Reynold's frames.

All of them were snagged for peanuts and have been built or re-built into what I think are some excellent rides.


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## hogleg62 (Mar 27, 2006)

I once killed a man with my sissy carbon seat stays.....


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## scwolf (Mar 27, 2007)

MR_GRUMPY said:


> They also make a "Gunnar" line of bikes that are not custom, but are $400 cheaper.(Same tubesets, same builders, same painters...but you are limited to only 5 colors)


Actually, for an extra $300 you get custom geometry frame from Gunnar. So a full custom Gunnar would cost $1075 without fork - not bad, but you might as well pay the extra bits for a true Waterford if you're going custom anyway.


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## Bob Ross (Apr 18, 2006)

the_rydster said:


> Hard to find though I think, especially here in Oz.


Darrell McCulloch's Llewellyn Bikes are made in Australia, and would easily be in my top 5 steel frame wish list. http://www.llewellynbikes.com/main.htm


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## physasst (Oct 1, 2005)

hogleg62 said:


> I once killed a man with my sissy carbon seat stays.....



Well, there have been reports of Carbon spontaneously exploding...or so I've heard...


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## bwana (Feb 4, 2005)

hogleg62 said:


> I once killed a man with my sissy carbon seat stays.....


Anything you say can and will be used against you in a court of law


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## ChuckUni (Jan 2, 2003)

bwana said:


> Anything you say can and will be used against you in a court of law


It's ok. I think what he did is perfectly legal...


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## djg (Nov 27, 2001)

refund!? said:


> There are loads of used Reynolds 531, 753, & 853, and Columbus SL frames setting around waiting for a new home. And that's where your search should begin. Otherwise, Torelli & Salsa have "very" nice ready-made frames that are as good as any, and Mark Nobilette, is a fine choice for a custom.
> 
> The truth is, if you could ride all the responses' recommended frames with the same build without knowing which was what, you most likely wouldn't be able to tell the difference. So, you're right, it's not an original question. Nor does it have an answer.


Well, sure, there are lots of good things out there, and most of us can adapt to plenty, although I wouldn't go nearly so far as to say that the different design choices different builders make are really irrelevant -- different frames handle differently, even if lots of things are similar, and we care more or less depending on ... whatever.

You could ask the used/new question independent of material choice or independent of the question whether somebody looking for a new frame has any strong preferences with regard to material. Buying used might entail certain risks or a bit of leg-work, and might call for a bit of patience (or, depending on one's size, quite a bit), but as a general matter, used framesets in excellent condition might be had for half or considerably less than half the price of new. I have a lugged, Serotta CSi from the late nineties and I think that I paid something on the order of 650 bucks for the frameset (with fork and hs) -- these were around 2,300 bucks for the frame just before Serotta stopped building them, so good for me, I guess. 

It doesn't follow that it's crazy to buy something new (personally, I've bought used, NOS, and new, without buyer's remorse). We don't have to catalogue the reasons why somebody might prefer a new frame, either a little or a lot, and supposing they have a sense of the market, know their budget constraints, and know their own preferences better than we do, I don't know there's much to say about the choice.

At the same time, it seems to me that there are reasons to prefer something built of relative contemporary pipes to a 20 or 30 year-old 531 or SL frameset. Sure it's true that some very fine bikes were built with those pipes and that there examples left in decent or even excellent condition for those who look around (it's also true that the pipes don't guarantee a fine bike by a long shot). For myself, well, I'm not a weight weenie, but I'd just as soon save the pound or two that modern steel pipes will allow; and I while I don't think that bikes need to seem impervious to flex, I'd just as soon do without the old chain rub; and while I recall having 6 speed gear that worked just fine, for fast group rides (let alone racing), it seems to me handy to have brifters and contemporary gear offerings (and the spacing to facilitate them). Find me the old Masi I never should have sold and, heck yeah I'd like it back. But if I were limited to one bike to ride on the road in all situations, I'd frankly much prefer something Dave Kirk or Dario Pegoretti (or back to my list) would build today, or did build last year.


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## cat4rider (Nov 10, 2006)

Carl built mine, I'd have him do it again, DeSalvo would be my next choice.


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## Guest (Jul 9, 2007)

Bob Ross said:


> Darrell McCulloch's Llewellyn Bikes are made in Australia, and would easily be in my top 5 steel frame wish list. https://www.llewellynbikes.com/main.htm


Nice!










However I must say I like the engineering and functionality of Baum.....less in more sometimes.


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## Bocephus Jones II (Oct 7, 2004)

crazytooguy said:


> OK, probably not an original question, but...
> 
> I really like steel frames, but I want a very light, responsive frame. The builder I was most familiar with and had planned to get a frame from was Anvil Bikeworks, but now he no longer builds frames, just framebuilding tools. So, who are the top of the game in steel framebuilding?


I'd get a Columbine if I wanted art:

https://www.columbinecycle.com/bicycles.php

<img src=https://www.columbinecycle.com/images/photos/columbine_twins.jpg>

<img src=https://www.columbinecycle.com/images/photos/columbine_custom.jpg>

<img src=https://www.columbinecycle.com/images/photos/earth_to_sky-seat_cluster_detail.jpg>


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## handsomerob (Oct 5, 2005)

I am such a newb. Until BJ's post I had never even heard of Columbine Bikes and they are just about too pretty to actually ride.

That is it. These have crossed the line. I can not see ever buying one of those, they are too ornate to actually ride. 


Besides, what would you do if (perish the thought) you actually laid one down. Do you hit the speed dial on your cell phone to the painter or do you go to the nearest priest and ask for a confession? Owning one of those would be too much pressure.


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## Guest (Jul 9, 2007)

handsomerob said:


> That is it. These have crossed the line. I can not see ever buying one of those, they are too ornate to actually ride.


Kind of opulent....to much so maybe?


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## handsomerob (Oct 5, 2005)

the_rydster said:


> Kind of opulent....to much so maybe? _ to ride, methinks, but as a functioning work of art, it is perfect_


I don't think I would feel comfortable riding near someone on one of those. It would be like tailgating an Enzo in my G20.


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## bwana (Feb 4, 2005)

Columbine has been around for a long time, but I've never seen one in person. It is nice that there are so many choices of builders, and that you can choose anything from utilitarian to ornate. Its like furniture, I prefer Shaker simplicity, but I can appreciate the workmanship of gilded Louis XIV style desks.


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## Wookiebiker (Sep 5, 2005)

The answer: There isn't one builder that is the "BEST"

However, there are lots of builders out there that will work with you on what you want. The best builder is the one you chose to make your bike. Look at them all, or pick a price range, then talk to the builders find one you are comfortable with and go with that person....He/She will be the best steel frame builder for you.


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## Len J (Jan 28, 2004)

*I agree.......*



handsomerob said:


> I don't think I would feel comfortable riding near someone on one of those. It would be like tailgating an Enzo in my G20.


on that particular Columcine. However, I've seen less ornate one's that yo would be comfortable riding.

Len


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## fastfullback (Feb 9, 2005)

wookiebiker is right--get to know the builder and see who clicks with you. 

That said, I'd head out Montana way and see Carl Strong. Right after plunking down my savings with him, I'd sell my wife's car, then take the proceeds up the road to David Kirk and give him some cash.


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## Kung Fu Felice (Apr 17, 2007)

handsomerob said:


> I don't think I would feel comfortable riding near someone on one of those. It would be like tailgating an Enzo in my G20.


Bikes are way better than cars as usable works of art. An Enzo is almost worthless after 3 years and 12,000 miles per year (worthless as a car because you'll be spending over $20,000 in maintenance a year just to keep it going). On the other hand, any topnotch custom steel frame, no matter how extravagant, is still usable like the day you bought it even after 3 years at 12,000 miles per year. Nothing a coat of paint can't return to "mint".

I would totally ride with pride my pimped out Columbine. I've just added Columbine to my list of future custom bikes before I die


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## cadence90 (Sep 12, 2004)

Lots of good suggestions here, and of course there is no best.

I'm very partial to Kish, and I also have a Pegoretti Marcelo, but if I were looking for a light, fast, race-oriented, cutting-edge, beautifully crafted, current steel, TIG'd frame I would seriously consider the Scapin Spirit R8.

Superb, imho.


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## Einstruzende (Jun 1, 2004)

Columbine: Great looking bikes. Never heard of them until now. For the price though ($3200 base), I'll stick with something less opulent.


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## terry b (Jan 29, 2004)

One more thing to think about - pick a builder that is reliable. One that answers his email and his phone. My experience in custom has taught me that just about anyone is going to build you a nice frame - all of them are "on top of their game." But they're not all easy to work with.

Not sure whether knowing that you can count on the builder to answer the phone is important to you, for me, it's become a deal breaker. Because it's often suggestive of how well they will do on the schedule and whether all your requirements will be met. I've learned the hard way that the stress of wondering what the heck is going on with your project can completely sour you on the final product. 

Lots of us here have written lots of nice and not so nice things about various builder's business behaviors. Spend some time searching and send IMs to the people that have posted their customs. It will be worth your time.


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## Sablotny (Aug 15, 2002)

*Sycip is hip, Kimo Tanaka is back in bidness*

If you're hip to Rock Lobster, you may be a Bay Area local, so I gotta mention Sycip in Santa Rosa and Kimo Tanaka, frame builder for Innerlight Cycles in Davis. Nice work.


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## MDGColorado (Nov 9, 2004)

For, mostly lugged, steel non-racing bikes, I like Waterford, Rivendell, Velo-Orange, Mariposa, just to name a few--and here I'm trying to avoid 2-year waiting lists. Among the bargains are Soma (the Speedster is cool), Surly, Kogswell. I'm partial to Mercian and that's not just because I own one.


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## Sixty Fiver (Jul 7, 2007)

Speaking of great frames... 

I opened our shop tonight and in checking over some weekend donations found nearly flawless 1982 Trek 750 frame that someone had dropped off.

The frame and forks are Reynolds 531, the bb is Cinelli, and I believe they used Campy dropouts (although they could be Shimano).

The workmanship and build quality of these frames is superb.


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## rdolson (Sep 2, 2003)

Why no mention of the Colnago Master XL? 

They have dropped the carbon "B-Stay" and are back to all steel. I have a 2006 all steel with carbon Street fork that is a really nice ride. The paint finish can be a bit dodgy, depending on who painted it, but I have found nothing I don't like about it. They cover a very wide range of sizes at 1cm increments, and priced in the upper teens for frame and fork are pretty resonable for an "Off the rack" frameset.


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## physasst (Oct 1, 2005)

MDGColorado said:


> For, mostly lugged, steel non-racing bikes, I like Waterford, Rivendell, Velo-Orange, Mariposa, just to name a few--and here I'm trying to avoid 2-year waiting lists. Among the bargains are Soma (the Speedster is cool), Surly, Kogswell. I'm partial to Mercian and that's not just because I own one.



Yep. I have a Soma Smoothie that is just awesome, I use it as a road bike/commuter around town bike, and it was worth every cent.


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## Bocephus Jones II (Oct 7, 2004)

rdolson said:


> Why no mention of the Colnago Master XL?
> 
> They have dropped the carbon "B-Stay" and are back to all steel. I have a 2006 all steel with carbon Street fork that is a really nice ride. The paint finish can be a bit dodgy, depending on who painted it, but I have found nothing I don't like about it. They cover a very wide range of sizes at 1cm increments, and priced in the upper teens for frame and fork are pretty resonable for an "Off the rack" frameset.


+1...I love my Colnago Master.


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## Bocephus Jones II (Oct 7, 2004)

Kung Fu Felice said:


> I would totally ride with pride my pimped out Columbine. I've just added Columbine to my list of future custom bikes before I die


Yup...I'd ride one...it reminds me of the Paul Simon song "diamonds on the soles of her shoes."


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## Lou1187 (Mar 4, 2006)

Land Shark


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## Kung Fu Felice (Apr 17, 2007)

rdolson said:


> Why no mention of the Colnago Master XL?
> 
> They have dropped the carbon "B-Stay" and are back to all steel. I have a 2006 all steel with carbon Street fork that is a really nice ride. The paint finish can be a bit dodgy, depending on who painted it, but I have found nothing I don't like about it. They cover a very wide range of sizes at 1cm increments, and priced in the upper teens for frame and fork are pretty resonable for an "Off the rack" frameset.


Which columbus tubing does the current version of the master xl use?


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## Bocephus Jones II (Oct 7, 2004)

Kung Fu Felice said:


> Which columbus tubing does the current version of the master xl use?


Proprietary tubeset...they call it Gilco I think.


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## TiDreaming (Jul 20, 2007)

I have the Master Olympic (1997 model). From what I can see they haven't change that much now that Colnago has gone back to all steel to make the Master for 2008.

Im think of stripping and rebuilding with 2007 Record gruppo.


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## cmg (Oct 27, 2004)

Cinelli Nuevo super corse.... in ultra foco/red/chrome lugs classic with new/current compact geom.
Bianchi Virata Deda 16.8
Curtlo.....S3 steel, slooping seat stays, powder coating, red is available, Steel straight fork available


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## Tugboat (Jul 17, 2006)

The Pegoretti Responsorium is the only steel bike on my wish list...


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## scwolf (Mar 27, 2007)

I wonder if the Columbus stainless steel tubing used in the Responsorium is lighter (drawn thinner?) than Reynold 953 stainless. I've heard the Reynolds isn't considered a light tubeset.


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## innergel (Jun 14, 2002)

If you are going custom, then it will be difficult to go wrong with anyone rec'd here. Curtlo is another good option if you are looking for a little less expensive.


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## threesportsinone (Mar 27, 2007)

In '04 or '05 Orbea made a steel Spirit. If you can find one in your size it would defiantly fit the description of fast, light, and fun. If you go with a custom builder it is really easy to spend lots of money but really hard to get a bike that you won't like.


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## 0119 (Aug 9, 2003)

Love my '03 Orbea in Columbus Zona. As plush as my Rivendell All-Rounder, and more precise in handling.


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## JayTee (Feb 3, 2004)

Hmmm. Very light? Quality steel is as much an aesthetic lust, IMO, and no place to be a weight weenie. You want off the rack (or nearly?) at your LBS? Then IF and Serotta still both offer some nice options. Beyond that, the world is your oyster, from readily available offerings from folks like Casati, Landshark, Ritchey, Tomassini etc. to custom lugged beauties from Sachs, Vanilla, Waterford.


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## DBtheCyclist (Oct 4, 2004)

*How about Eisentraut*

I had a Eisentraut steel frame built for me back in 1997, I rode the bike close to 20,000 miles. Just added a Litespeed this year, however still ride, and love the Eisentraut. Can't find his old site, www.eisentraut.com, however did find this 

http://www.classicrendezvous.com/USA/Eisentraut_main.htm 

I contemplated a custom Eisentraut ti frame, however the frame and fork would have been about as much as the complete Litespeed Tuscany / DA 10 speed / Mavic Ksyrium ES.

My wife doesn't bicycle, it was pushing it to get a $4000 bike, nevermind a $6000+ bike.

Also a good recommendation here http://www.spectrum-cycles.com/44.htm 

Doug


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## DannyBoy (Feb 19, 2004)

the_rydster said:


> However I must say I like the engineering and functionality of Baum.....less in more sometimes.


Phil Iggett owns and rides a Ti Baum..............

Roberts out of the UK are macc daddy too. I own 2!!!


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## alexedge (Jul 13, 2007)

cadence90 said:


> Lots of good suggestions here, and of course there is no best.
> 
> I'm very partial to Kish, and I also have a Pegoretti Marcelo, but if I were looking for a light, fast, race-oriented, cutting-edge, beautifully crafted, current steel, TIG'd frame I would seriously consider the Scapin Spirit R8.
> 
> Superb, imho.


Mmmm. I want. Where can I get these in the US? And how light?


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## Howzitbroke (Jun 1, 2005)

No one has said Steelman yet so, Steelman. Born with a name like that what would you expect? I have been on one of his for the last 8 years and it is flawless still. Smoothest tigs in the business. For lugs I would go Kirk, Nobilette or Waterford. Sachs' wait it just nuts, great for him and his fans but man.


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## torrefaction (Jun 25, 2006)

Indyfab's ssr 953 has got to be one of the bling-est - at $3300 US frame and fork

The best steel bike, however, is the one made for you. Hence, mine is the best. :9:


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## Scooper (Mar 4, 2007)

Independent Fabrication, Waterford, Carl Strong, Bob Brown, Jonnycycles, and David Anderson all build Reynolds 953 steel frames.
I went with Waterford, but they're all good and they all build with other steels, too. I didn't buy the 953 frame for its light weight, but
it's a 61 cm lugged frame with traditional geometry and weighs 1650 g.


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## Kung Fu Felice (Apr 17, 2007)

Scooper said:


> it's a 61 cm lugged frame with traditional geometry and weighs 1650 g.


Does that weight include the fork too? If so, that's not bad.


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## torrefaction (Jun 25, 2006)

Okay - I gotta ask - if not for its light weight, why did you shell out for 953?


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## Scooper (Mar 4, 2007)

Kung Fu Felice said:


> Does that weight include the fork too? If so, that's not bad.


Alas, no; that's just the weight of the bare frame. As far as I know, nobody has built a 953 fork yet. My fork is
chrome plated 531.



torrefaction said:


> Okay - I gotta ask - if not for its light weight, why did you shell out for 953?


I like the material. It's tough stuff, and I'll never have to worry about rust. The fact that it's among the lightest steel
tube sets (if not _the_ lightest) is a bonus.

The all-up weight of the 953 Waterford is six pounds lighter than my 531 Paramount (same size/geometry).


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## innergel (Jun 14, 2002)

Howzitbroke said:


> No one has said Steelman yet so, Steelman. Born with a name like that what would you expect? I have been on one of his for the last 8 years and it is flawless still. Smoothest tigs in the business. For lugs I would go Kirk, Nobilette or Waterford. Sachs' wait it just nuts, great for him and his fans but man.


I think Steelman has closed up shop. 

http://forums.roadbikereview.com/showthread.php?t=99275&highlight=steelman


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## torrefaction (Jun 25, 2006)

I must admit, my initial reaction was one of horror when I realized you'd probably spent around 6K to build a replica of a 1972 Shwinn touring bike using state of the art, too-expensive-to-race materials. Upon reflection, however, I'd say your Waterford is emblematic of what biking is all about for me; loving every minute of the ride without getting hung up on having the latest gps-wattage meter, 12 spoke wheels and high-modulus carbon shoehorns. Why shouldn't a 953 frame and full campy record gruppo be accompanied by a Brooks leather saddle and flat pedals? Nice bike, Scooper.


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## j-dawg (Apr 24, 2004)

*Black Sheep*

No one has mentioned Black Sheep yet:

http://www.blacksheepbikes.com/

They do mostly Ti but I've seen some of his steel work and it's pretty amazing. His mtb's are getting pretty popular along the Front Range of CO, especially his 29er and SS options. 

That said I've seen at least one local road racing team outfitted on Black Sheep.


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## Scooper (Mar 4, 2007)

torrefaction said:


> I must admit, my initial reaction was one of horror when I realized you'd probably spent around 6K to build a replica of a 1972 Shwinn touring bike using state of the art, too-expensive-to-race materials. Upon reflection, however, I'd say your Waterford is emblematic of what biking is all about for me; loving every minute of the ride without getting hung up on having the latest gps-wattage meter, 12 spoke wheels and high-modulus carbon shoehorns. Why shouldn't a 953 frame and full campy record gruppo be accompanied by a Brooks leather saddle and flat pedals? Nice bike, Scooper.


Thanks; you've expressed my sentiments eloquently.


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## TiDreaming (Jul 20, 2007)

Rust proof I would guess...


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