# LeMond Power Pilot reviews



## SlowMover

Anyone here have one they are pleased with? I love my Rev, but doggone it I am having a very hard time finding any reviews on any site with happy Power Pilot customers. Lost of issues, lost data, not ANT functional although it's supposed to be etc.

I spend a crazy amount of time on my Rev and would love to grab this, but since my LeMond dealer is clueless about the Power Pilot I'm relegated to web reviews.

Happy owners here?


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## EWT

SlowMover said:


> Anyone here have one they are pleased with? I love my Rev, but doggone it I am having a very hard time finding any reviews on any site with happy Power Pilot customers. Lost of issues, lost data, not ANT functional although it's supposed to be etc.
> 
> I spend a crazy amount of time on my Rev and would love to grab this, but since my LeMond dealer is clueless about the Power Pilot I'm relegated to web reviews.
> 
> Happy owners here?


No experience, but the reviews I've seen haven't been great. I personally use the Power Pilot speed sensor along with Trainer Road Homepage - TrainerRoad which gives you power and many workouts. Great product, and you can pay for a lot of months of access for the cost of the Power Pilot.


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## SlowMover

EWT said:


> No experience, but the reviews I've seen haven't been great. I personally use the Power Pilot speed sensor along with Trainer Road Homepage - TrainerRoad which gives you power and many workouts. Great product, and you can pay for a lot of months of access for the cost of the Power Pilot.


Oooh wait could you please go into a bit more detail on this please? What does the speed sensor give you as opposed to the entire PP? Will I need to buy some type of head unit as well? This sounds like a nice idea on the surface and would love to know more. Thank you!


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## EWT

It makes more sense once you see it, but the speed sensor on the trainer outputs to a USB stick on a computer. Trainer Road reads the speed, and coverts speed to power. You choose workouts that are scaled to your FTP, and your power targets are presented to you on screen in a bar graph format. Your power output also appears on screen and you attempt to keep your power output above the targets. The "take a tour" section of their website has some screen shots and more explanation. It really is a cool product. I normally hate riding a trainer, and TR makes it tolerable. The workouts are challenging and there are a bunch of them to choose from.


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## Alaska Mike

I have one. It was a waste of money (for me). Clunky user interface, hard to download from, and really overpriced for what it is. I was severely disappointed, after how much I like the Revolution.

I have a Garmin Edge 500. The addition of a speed sensor (a $25 Bontrager ANT+) on the rear non-drive chainstay, angled towards the magnet on the flywheel (little silver dot) gave me "speed". I have a Quarq for cadence and power, but a regular cadence sensor can be used if you want that metric. SInce the power reading is derived from speed, you can get the same effect by using a site like Trainer Road to do the calculations. You can get the sensor and a Garmin bundle and still have a couple hundred left over. *AND* you can use it on the road.

Anyone want to buy a used Power Pilot?


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## neoprocyclist

Alaska Mike said:


> I have one. It was a waste of money (for me). Clunky user interface, hard to download from, and really overpriced for what it is. I was severely disappointed, after how much I like the Revolution.
> 
> I have a Garmin Edge 500. The addition of a speed sensor (a $25 Bontrager ANT+) on the rear non-drive chainstay, angled towards the magnet on the flywheel (little silver dot) gave me "speed". I have a Quarq for cadence and power, but a regular cadence sensor can be used if you want that metric. SInce the power reading is derived from speed, you can get the same effect by using a site like Trainer Road to do the calculations. You can get the sensor and a Garmin bundle and still have a couple hundred left over. *AND* you can use it on the road.
> 
> Anyone want to buy a used Power Pilot?


I think the answer to that is NO!!


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## RacerG_Stanford

*Power Pilot Review*

I too was having trouble finding power pilot reviews when I was looking to purchase. I ended up purchasing the unit, and have been less than completely satisfied. Note that I am coming from having used a ptap for 3 or 4 years, and was used to the workflow of the ptap. This allowed quickly downloading and analyzing rides afterwards. 

Here are the things that I like:
- On the bike, the display is good - you can see all of the metrics of interest at once because of the large display. Works fine for seeing "power", HR, etc.

Here are the things that I don't like:
- Download time from PP to pc is bad. Takes me longer to download than ride (e.g. 60min ride takes more than 60min to transfer to USB stick). Transfer from usb stick to pc is on the order of seconds...
- Battery life is bad (likely related to above). Getting somewhere between 5 and 10 hours of ride time (and corresponding download time) for a set of batteries. This drove me to get rechargables.

I contacted Lemond Fitness about these issues, and they indicated that a fw is in the works (due out in the fall) that will address these, but with indication of what sort of improvement to expect.

Also, I previously contacted Lemond Fitness about getting more information on the accuracy of the power estimations. They indicated that they would have an independent study available in a couple of weeks. That was a couple of months ago, and have heard nothing since.

Hope this helps.


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## NatePearson

SlowMover said:


> Anyone here have one they are pleased with? I love my Rev, but doggone it I am having a very hard time finding any reviews on any site with happy Power Pilot customers. Lost of issues, lost data, not ANT functional although it's supposed to be etc.
> 
> I spend a crazy amount of time on my Rev and would love to grab this, but since my LeMond dealer is clueless about the Power Pilot I'm relegated to web reviews.
> 
> Happy owners here?


Here's a thread about how to setup a speed sensor with TrainerRoad. For the price of a Power Pilot you can get 3.6 years of TrainerRoad memberships .

There's an explanation in our support forum, but I can't post links to it yet .

Basically you just put an ANT+ Speed sensor next to the fly wheel, plug in a ANT+ USB Stick to your comp and do a workout. It's just like the power pilot calculations but we don't take into account air density. As long as you're not changing elevations you should be good.

Let me know if you have any questions.

-Nate


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## EWT

NatePearson said:


> There's an explanation in our support forum, but I can't post links to it yet .
> 
> Basically you just put an ANT+ Speed sensor next to the fly wheel, plug in a ANT+ USB Stick to your comp and do a workout. It's just like the power pilot calculations but we don't take into account air density. As long as you're not changing elevations you should be good.
> 
> Let me know if you have any questions.
> 
> -Nate


Here's the link: How do I set up my Lemond Revolution with TrainerRoad without a power pilot? : Trainer Road The picture in the thread is of my bike, but I'm now using the Power Pilot speed sensor to measure speed for Trainer Road rather than the Bontrager sensor shown in the picture. It costs more than a generic sensor (~$70), but it bolts right on at the perfect location, so it is worth the extra cost IMO.


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## NatePearson

Thanks for the link! Thanks for taking that pic too


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## EWT

No problem. Thanks for the great product and support. I haven't used it as much as I expected since the weather has been so nice in Northern CA this winter, but it makes being on a trainer tolerable and almost fun.


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## cyclesport45

Putting together a shopping list to get on Trainerroad. I have a Lemond Revolution (Wife's bike has been parked on it all winter, I ride outside). I will get the Lemond speed sensor ($70), the Garmin ANT+ Stick ($35). What do I need to get cadence? Do I NEED cadence to make Trainerroad work? Thanks.


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## NatePearson

cyclesport45 said:


> Putting together a shopping list to get on Trainerroad. I have a Lemond Revolution (Wife's bike has been parked on it all winter, I ride outside). I will get the Lemond speed sensor ($70), the Garmin ANT+ Stick ($35). What do I need to get cadence? Do I NEED cadence to make Trainerroad work? Thanks.


You don't need cadence to get it working. You could save some money though and use the wahoo speed/cadence sensor. It's long enough to get both as long as you don't have a really big bike or short cranks.

Check out this pic: https://i432.photobucket.com/albums/qq41/EWT/Bike Stuff/lemondphoto.jpg

So at a minimum you just need a speed sensor and a ANT+ stick. Looks like you got it all worked out!

-Nate


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## SlowMover

cyclesport45 said:


> Putting together a shopping list to get on Trainerroad. I have a Lemond Revolution (Wife's bike has been parked on it all winter, I ride outside). I will get the Lemond speed sensor ($70), the Garmin ANT+ Stick ($35). What do I need to get cadence? Do I NEED cadence to make Trainerroad work? Thanks.


YES! Shopping list is a nice add here. I have since chatted with 2 other PP owners on other web forums and all the same issues surfaced. Net net was they wish they hadn't bought it. This is such a stark contrast to their love for the Rev. 

Nate: Do you envision getting this for the iPhone? Reason being is that I cannot put a bike near my computer and I don't own a laptop. Thanks


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## NatePearson

SlowMover said:


> YES! Shopping list is a nice add here. I have since chatted with 2 other PP owners on other web forums and all the same issues surfaced. Net net was they wish they hadn't bought it. This is such a stark contrast to their love for the Rev.
> 
> Nate: Do you envision getting this for the iPhone? Reason being is that I cannot put a bike near my computer and I don't own a laptop. Thanks


Yes, 100% iOS and Anroid. We just want to add a few more features to the desktop app and get that code stable before we move to mobile.


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## SlowMover

NatePearson said:


> Yes, 100% iOS and Anroid. We just want to add a few more features to the desktop app and get that code stable before we move to mobile.


Nate

What exactly would I need for my shopping list utilizing an iPhone?

Thanks!


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## NatePearson

One of these:
Amazon.com: Wahoo Fitness ANT+ Wahoo Key for iPod touch, iPhone, and iPad: MP3 Players & Accessories

That's what allows the iPhone/iPad to pick up ANT+ data.


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## Alaska Mike

My LeMond speed sensor that came with the PowerPro wouldn't pair up with the Garmin. Have they come out with an ANT+ version? Mine was one of the first ones that came out, but I've heard nothing about an upgrade or alternate version that is ANT+ compatible. It would be nice.


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## NatePearson

That's good to know. I thought they were all ANT+. 

Did you try pairing it as a "Speed" sensor and not a "Speed/Cadence" sensor?


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## coupon

Alaska Mike said:


> My LeMond speed sensor that came with the PowerPro wouldn't pair up with the Garmin. Have they come out with an ANT+ version? Mine was one of the first ones that came out, but I've heard nothing about an upgrade or alternate version that is ANT+ compatible. It would be nice.


I was just about to ask the same question. I haven't been able to get the reading from the power pilot speed sensor onto my garmin 500 or 705, therefore I am guessing it won't work on the USB ANT+ reciever as well. Can anyone show me the trick to work around it?


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## NatePearson

coupon said:


> I was just about to ask the same question. I haven't been able to get the reading from the power pilot speed sensor onto my garmin 500 or 705, therefore I am guessing it won't work on the USB ANT+ reciever as well. Can anyone show me the trick to work around it?


This is kind of confusing but the power pilot is ANT+ enabled. They read in the standard speed and cadence devices.

The weird part is how it outputs the data. The lemond engineers tell me that it out puts in .FIT format. This is a new format pushed by garmin/ANT to be used with certain fitness devices and to transfer large files.

The lemond streams this data out for devices to read.

The problem is that I don't know of a single head unit that reads .FIT. They all read the standard power/heart/cadence/speed ANT+ pages.

In my opinion lemond dropped the ball on this. They should issue a firmware update to output these standard pages.

At trainerroad.com we can write code to read the .fit data via the ant USB stick. We just have higher priorities right now, and since you can use VirtualPower with us and it's pretty much the exact same thing without air density, plus you save $400+dollars, it's on the back burner.


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## EWT

My LeMond speed sensor works fine with an iPhone with an ANT+ dongle and trainer road with the Garmin USB stick. The sensor has an ANT+ logo on it. Do the older ones have that?


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## NatePearson

Yah, the speed sensor works fine. We just can't read directly from the power pilot at the moment.


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## cyclesport45

Got my shopping list completed, and just in time. After a winter of riding outside here in Central Massachusetts, we're getting 6 to 10 inches of snow today. Looks like I'll be signing up for Trainerroad tommorrow!


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## NatePearson

ah! Great to hear!


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## Alaska Mike

Well, mine has the ANT+ symbol on it, but it never paired properly with my Edge 500 in any configuration. It would pass the ID number, but never pass speed data. It worked fine with the Power Pilot, so I don't think it was an alignment issue. I just tried it again with a new battery, with the same results.


This was the response I got from LeMond when I asked about it just before I got my Power Pilot:


> The Lemond Revolution will work with two separate sensors. One will mount to your chain stay and pull a cadence reading off of your crank arm and the other will mount to the drive pulley and give you an RPM reading. The Revolution will have a computer accessory available in January called the power pilot and it will give you a power reading measured in watts as well as time, speed, distance, calories burned and heart rate. The Power pilot is ANT+ enabled, but at this time it will not communicate with your garmin computer. Please let us know if there is anything else we can help with and have a great day.
> Thanks,
> Ben Grenet
> Lemond Fitness Tech Support


I hadn't heard of any new developments on the speed sensor in a while. Something changed?


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## EWT

It sound like ANT+ works about as well as Bluetooth. Some devices pair and others don't.


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## coupon

Alaska Mike said:


> Well, mine has the ANT+ symbol on it, but it never paired properly with my Edge 500 in any configuration. It would pass the ID number, but never pass speed data. It worked fine with the Power Pilot, so I don't think it was an alignment issue. I just tried it again with a new battery, with the same results.
> 
> 
> This was the response I got from LeMond when I asked about it just before I got my Power Pilot:
> 
> I hadn't heard of any new developments on the speed sensor in a while. Something changed?


I guess they did it purposely to prevent Garmin computer being able to read the sensor's output. Or else no one will buy that bulky Power Pilot display.


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## Alaska Mike

coupon said:


> I guess they did it purposely to prevent Garmin computer being able to read the sensor's output. Or else no one will buy that bulky Power Pilot display.


Yeah, that's what I was figuring. They probably set up the sensor to an assignment that was allocated to "other" to keep people from pairing it with a Garmin, thus requiring the purchase of the Power Pilot. I think that was a bad move on their part, as they could have sold a bunch of ANT+ speed sensors (one for each Revolution they sold) and avoided a bunch of disgruntled customers.


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## j.o.e.l

I got the Bontrager ant+ speed sensor instead of the Lemond. I taped it onto the trainer between the tabs where the Lemond unit screws in. It works flawlessly with my Edge 500 and is a few bucks cheaper than the Lemond sensor. Plus, I can use the sensor on my bike if I want to in the summer.

For 'power' training, I just select target speeds and try to maintain that for a set duration.. E.g. 20 mph for 10 mins, 25 mph for 5 mins... Not sure what watts the mph equates to so for now I go by feel. Anybody got a speed vs power curve for this thing?


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## Alaska Mike

Trainer Road should have the power curve for the Revolution. I've never bothered checking, since I use a Quarq for power and cadence.

I'm using the Bontrager speed sensor too, but the Lemond mount is a little more clean for the application.


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## cyclesport45

Rides - TrainerRoad

Nate; That was the most fun I had on a trainer, ever. EVAH!


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## glockaxis

Alaska Mike said:


> I have one. It was a waste of money (for me). Clunky user interface, hard to download from, and really overpriced for what it is. I was severely disappointed, after how much I like the Revolution.
> 
> I have a Garmin Edge 500. The addition of a speed sensor (a $25 Bontrager ANT+) on the rear non-drive chainstay, angled towards the magnet on the flywheel (little silver dot) gave me "speed". I have a Quarq for cadence and power, but a regular cadence sensor can be used if you want that metric. SInce the power reading is derived from speed, you can get the same effect by using a site like Trainer Road to do the calculations. You can get the sensor and a Garmin bundle and still have a couple hundred left over. *AND* you can use it on the road.
> 
> Anyone want to buy a used Power Pilot?


How about you pay me to take it off your hands? LOL


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## Alaska Mike

glockaxis said:


> How about you pay me to take it off your hands? LOL


Naw, I don't hate it _that_ much. Worst case scenerio, I might pull apart the LeMond speed sensor and swap in the guts of a Bontrager sensor.

I did notice on the Trainer Road site you can pair a Garmin speed/cadence sensor with the Power Pilot, which probably would have led me down all sorts of interesting paths if I would have known about it a year ago. Since I own a Quarq now, my interest has somewhat waned.


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## Alaska Mike

Here's the response I just got from LeMond Fitness about the power pilot speed sensor.



> The power pilot speed sensors sends only an RPM signal, Your Garmin would have to calculate the speed from the RPM data the Power Pilot sensor provides. The Power Pilot does all these calculations in the display, so the sensors send only the RPM’s. Please let us know if you have any other questions and have a great day.
> 
> Thanks,
> Ben Grenet
> LeMond Fitness Tech Support


Shame. On the other hand, I will say that all of the responses I've gotten from LeMond have been extremely courteous and professional. I really like the Revolution (as much as you can like a stationary trainer), despite the Power Pilot being what I would characterize as a complete dud.


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## SlowMover

Alaska

Thanks for your response. I read it quickly while running through the airport catching a connection and didn't have time to respond. I think after it's all said and done I'm just going to wait and buy a crank based power meter...Quarq most likely. Such a shame to have a contrast in products like LeMond does. Absolute winner with Revolution, epic face palm fail with Power Pilot. Sigh.


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## metalpine

Hello Alaska,

I bought LeMond Revolution and Power Pilot last month and have been using them almost everyday.
I think Power Pilot has enough function as a cycle computer for in-door trainer.
Power Pilot calculates power from not only RPM but also TORQUE, which might be sent from wind resistance unit, I guess.
Certainly it is so costly, but I think Power Pilot is an only appliance which calculate accurate power.

Saving training data is absolutely slow. It won't end while I have a bathe after 5 hours training. But the saved data is simple CSV format, so it can easily be converted to any format, or analyzed by myself.
My only one disappointing issue about the Power Pilot is that training data is occasionally collapsed and cannot be saved to USB memory. So I'd like to purchase another Power Pilot unit for redundancy, if it is cheap...



Alaska Mike said:


> I have one. It was a waste of money (for me). Clunky user interface, hard to download from, and really overpriced for what it is. I was severely disappointed, after how much I like the Revolution.
> 
> I have a Garmin Edge 500. The addition of a speed sensor (a $25 Bontrager ANT+) on the rear non-drive chainstay, angled towards the magnet on the flywheel (little silver dot) gave me "speed". I have a Quarq for cadence and power, but a regular cadence sensor can be used if you want that metric. SInce the power reading is derived from speed, you can get the same effect by using a site like Trainer Road to do the calculations. You can get the sensor and a Garmin bundle and still have a couple hundred left over. *AND* you can use it on the road.
> 
> Anyone want to buy a used Power Pilot?


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## DEM

*Lemond Revolution Speed versus Power*

I have a Lemond Revolution trainer. I picked up speed and cadence by extending the wires on a garmin speed sensor and mounting it on the trainer. It works fine and I use it with my Garmin 705. I calibrated a power versus speed chart with a friend using his SRM. 
I am not sure it we are completely accurate on the power calibration and would like to compare our power readings to a someone else or to a Lemond Pilot system.


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## Eyorerox

To down load quickly to your USB drive make sure that when you have done it you delete all data from the power pilot, it will then download quite quickly


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## InThePeloton

*LeMond Revolution/Power Pilot - reborn?*

I bought my Rev/Power Pilot about a year ago and still use it. Yes, the Power Pilot unit is cludgy as all get-out, but it does work and produces good data. I upload the data from the memory stick to the Training Peaks Device Agent, and that converts it into a file that Training Peaks can use.

Back in January my PP stopped uploading to the memory stick, and I thought I was stuck. However, it turned out the batteries in the PP head unit were getting low and didn't have enough power to transfer it to the stick. There was enough power to make the head unit work during the workout with all data showing - which was the confusing part. I was ready to toss the PP, but replaced the batteries with good ones and it's back to normal. Since the head unit worked, I never considered it could be that.

Seems like LeMond Revolution has been reborn. wwwlemondrevolutioncom is the new home. They've got a new firmware upgrade listed on the site - has anyone tried it? I'm having a hard time saving it to .hex format, so I haven't tried it yet. I've gotten responses from their customer service group - so hopefully the best feeling trainer on the market (as trainers go, as stated earlier by someone) is still alive and kicking and we might get some better functionality by the new owners of the Rev/PP.

Here's to hoping, anyway... 




SlowMover said:


> Alaska
> 
> Thanks for your response. I read it quickly while running through the airport catching a connection and didn't have time to respond. I think after it's all said and done I'm just going to wait and buy a crank based power meter...Quarq most likely. Such a shame to have a contrast in products like LeMond does. Absolute winner with Revolution, epic face palm fail with Power Pilot. Sigh.


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## InThePeloton

It could be my imagination, but after the 6.3 firmware update, it DID seem to finish writing to the memory stick faster.



InThePeloton said:


> I bought my Rev/Power Pilot about a year ago and still use it. Yes, the Power Pilot unit is cludgy as all get-out, but it does work and produces good data. I upload the data from the memory stick to the Training Peaks Device Agent, and that converts it into a file that Training Peaks can use.
> 
> Back in January my PP stopped uploading to the memory stick, and I thought I was stuck. However, it turned out the batteries in the PP head unit were getting low and didn't have enough power to transfer it to the stick. There was enough power to make the head unit work during the workout with all data showing - which was the confusing part. I was ready to toss the PP, but replaced the batteries with good ones and it's back to normal. Since the head unit worked, I never considered it could be that.
> 
> Seems like LeMond Revolution has been reborn. wwwlemondrevolutioncom is the new home. They've got a new firmware upgrade listed on the site - has anyone tried it? I'm having a hard time saving it to .hex format, so I haven't tried it yet. I've gotten responses from their customer service group - so hopefully the best feeling trainer on the market (as trainers go, as stated earlier by someone) is still alive and kicking and we might get some better functionality by the new owners of the Rev/PP.
> 
> Here's to hoping, anyway...


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## Eyorerox

If you wish to upload your data from the Power Pilot to Garmin Connect or Strava you can convert the CSV files to TCX using this online converter, the date is always incorrect for me on Garmin Connect, easy to edit.
Convert To TCX application


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