# Bont shoes are amazing



## jeff400650 (Mar 29, 2014)

I just got a pair (Vaypor XC) and rode a quick 25 miles in them, and they are transformative for me! Thank you PBL450, for suggesting them to me in another thread about wide shoes. I ordered them directly from Bont and had to wait 5 weeks since they had to make the size 48 wide pair. They are completely different from any other shoe, in that the carbon fiber sole wraps up and around the foot. It is not just a narrow, flat little plank like all of my other shoes I have tried. My feet no longer hang over the edge of the sole. And my toes can rest in a natural position, not squeazed and bunched. They are super stiff and light. Now my feet and ankles feel relaxed and connected and powerful, more like an integral part of the machine. I can even apply force pushing my foot forward across the top of the pedal stroke now and my feet stay supported and comfy. I think even people with normal width feet would find them to be great.

This is going to really improve my riding. I am going on the "fast guys" group ride tomorrow morning and cant wait to really put in some efforts in them.


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## PBL450 (Apr 12, 2014)

jeff400650 said:


> I just got a pair (Vaypor XC) and rode a quick 25 miles in them, and they are transformative for me! Thank you PBL450, for suggesting them to me in another thread about wide shoes. I ordered them directly from Bont and had to wait 5 weeks since they had to make the size 48 wide pair. They are completely different from any other shoe, in that the carbon fiber sole wraps up and around the foot. It is not just a narrow, flat little plank like all of my other shoes I have tried. My feet no longer hang over the edge of the sole. And my toes can rest in a natural position, not squeazed and bunched. They are super stiff and light. Now my feet and ankles feel relaxed and connected and powerful, more like an integral part of the machine. I can even apply force pushing my foot forward across the top of the pedal stroke now and my feet stay supported and comfy. I think even people with normal width feet would find them to be great.
> 
> This is going to really improve my riding. I am going on the "fast guys" group ride tomorrow morning and cant wait to really put in some efforts in them.


Yeah!!! Big difference between and solid plank under your foot and a fully heat moldable CF shoe!! Glad you are liking the Vaypors!!


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## MMsRepBike (Apr 1, 2014)

Don't forget to lower your seat.


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## jeff400650 (Mar 29, 2014)

I thought I would have to, but it still feels good where it is. Maybe I needed a couple more mms. Although now that you mention it, after a 60 mile ride yesterday, I do have a sore tendon at the back of my knee.

Maybe I will take it down a bit.


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## FTR (Sep 20, 2006)

Most hit or miss shoes I have seen.
We see dozens of pairs show up through our local cycling page where the owners are selling after a "few short rides" because they "dont fit my feet".
I tried 3 different sizes and could not get a pair that fit and that I could ride in for more than a few km without my feet going into cramp.
Hate them.

Will stick with my Empires.


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## PBL450 (Apr 12, 2014)

That's weird? I've never seen a used pair for sale except on eBay. If you cramp in a few km something is way wrong. That's hard for me to imagine. That's like a minute or something right? Someone check my math, please... I have thousands of miles in 3 different pairs of Bonts and know other users and I've never heard of something like this. Frankly, I don't think I've heard anyone cramp in a minute in anything?


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## FTR (Sep 20, 2006)

PBL450 said:


> I have thousands of miles in 3 different pairs of Bonts and know other users


Yep, that is why I said they are hit or miss.
I see lots of pairs for sale and on our local road bike page there are 3 - 4 pairs for sale currently.
All lightly used and all where the current owner suggest that they just do not work with their feet.

I am usually a 46 and have tried all the way up to a 46.5.

Your idea of a few km (suggesting 2 or 3) and mine (say a 50km ride) are obviously different too.
My last pair lasted me that one 50km ride before I resold them.
In contrast I received my Empires and rode 100km in them that day with no problem.


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## MMsRepBike (Apr 1, 2014)

As I eluded to earlier, the stack height is a problem often overlooked.

It's not uncommon for Bont's to be a full 8mm lower stack than another shoe. 

Take the first generation Fizik R1 Uomo for instance. Popular shoe. I measured an 8.5mm difference in stack height between it and a Bont Vaypor. Shimano R170 were 6.7mm difference.

Moving your seat up or down that much is a pretty big deal. Shortening a crank arm that much would be a huge deal. If uncompensated for properly it can cause many issues.


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## FTR (Sep 20, 2006)

MMsRepBike said:


> As I eluded to earlier, the stack height is a problem often overlooked.
> 
> It's not uncommon for Bont's to be a full 8mm lower stack than another shoe.
> 
> ...


Stack height has nothing to do with foot comfort inside the shoe though.
I dropped my saddle as recommended but that has nothing to do with the discomfort of my foot inside the shoe.


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## MMsRepBike (Apr 1, 2014)

FTR said:


> Stack height has nothing to do with foot comfort inside the shoe though.
> I dropped my saddle as recommended but that has nothing to do with the discomfort of my foot inside the shoe.


It can. It can certainly cause numbness and related issues. Pressure points and such are indeed another matter.

A point on that pressure point thing: Bont shoes are of course "fully heat moldable" and they can be repeatedly molded. However if you dig a little or just ask the company they will tell you that only a very small fraction of the users need to heat mold them. And if they are uncomfortable for you when you first wear them the chances of heat molding solving the issue are slim. I read something like a 95% figure from them of people that do not need the heat molding. 

So basically they either are comfortable for you or they aren't. Heat molding isn't going to fix it most likely.


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## jeff400650 (Mar 29, 2014)

I had a bit of a sore spot on the left shoe in which the arch was a little too high. I got aggressive with a hair drier and altered it a couple of mms and the shoes have been great ever since. I've put over 300 miles on them. It is a new sensation letting my feet just "be there" in a natural position. My search is over!

I did lower my saddle 5 mms. I can't figure out a way to measure the actual stack height of the shoes. I'd like to know how they compare to the Sidis I was wearing. It seems like I would need some sort of wide jaw caliper micrometer or something. Just feeling the soles near the cleats with my fingers, the Bonts definately feel thinner.


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## FTR (Sep 20, 2006)

MMsRepBike said:


> It can. It can certainly cause numbness and related issues. Pressure points and such are indeed another matter.
> 
> A point on that pressure point thing: Bont shoes are of course "fully heat moldable" and they can be repeatedly molded. However if you dig a little or just ask the company they will tell you that only a very small fraction of the users need to heat mold them. And if they are uncomfortable for you when you first wear them the chances of heat molding solving the issue are slim. I read something like a 95% figure from them of people that do not need the heat molding.
> 
> So basically they either are comfortable for you or they aren't. Heat molding isn't going to fix it most likely.


I will have to believe you on the saddle height thing making my feet cramp.
Cant see it myself.
I did heat mould them immediately prior to usse and did that a couple of more times too and as you said, it made no real difference.

I have never worn a pair of cycling shoes that were as uncomfortable for me personally as Bont are.
I have worn Pearl Izumi, Diadora, Gaerne, Sidi and am now rocking 2 pair of Giro Empire.
The Empire are hands down the most comfortable cycling shoes that I have worn (for my feet).


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## PBL450 (Apr 12, 2014)

FTR said:


> Yep, that is why I said they are hit or miss.
> I see lots of pairs for sale and on our local road bike page there are 3 - 4 pairs for sale currently.
> All lightly used and all where the current owner suggest that they just do not work with their feet.
> 
> ...


When you wrote that your feet cramped up after a few km I took it to mean your feet cramped up after a few km. No difference in idea at all, just a deseptive or wildly inaccurate description? Bont sizing is different, so you want to work with someone who knows Bont shoes. I have recommended Bonts and had people follow through at least a dozen times. Never one complaint or regret. But the shoe obviously has to fit properly. If your foot is wide, buy a wide shoe. If you have an arch accommodation just mention it. Most semi-custom changes are like a $30.00 up charge. Wide isn't semi-custom. You should go to their website and trace and measure your feet. Look at the easy reference charts and it will be easy to know what will fit. Work with a real Bont rep and it'll be right on. I can see someone not liking he feel of a real cf shoe, it's very different. But the shoe, if it fits properly, should not cause pain in any way.


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## FTR (Sep 20, 2006)

PBL450 said:


> When you wrote that your feet cramped up after a few km I took it to mean your feet cramped up after a few km. No difference in idea at all, just a deseptive or wildly inaccurate description? Bont sizing is different, so you want to work with someone who knows Bont shoes. I have recommended Bonts and had people follow through at least a dozen times. Never one complaint or regret. But the shoe obviously has to fit properly. If your foot is wide, buy a wide shoe. If you have an arch accommodation just mention it. Most semi-custom changes are like a $30.00 up charge. Wide isn't semi-custom. You should go to their website and trace and measure your feet. Look at the easy reference charts and it will be easy to know what will fit. Work with a real Bont rep and it'll be right on. I can see someone not liking he feel of a real cf shoe, it's very different. But the shoe, if it fits properly, should not cause pain in any way.


Or just keep wearing Empires that i think are amazing.
50km and cramped feet is not a long ride.

I did all of the things that you suggested outside of going to a Bont retailer (none local).
They sucked for my feet.
I know lots of people who also think that they sucked and I know lots of people who think they are awesome.
Hit and miss.


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## PBL450 (Apr 12, 2014)

FTR said:


> Or just keep wearing Empires that i think are amazing.
> 50km and cramped feet is not a long ride.
> 
> I did all of the things that you suggested outside of going to a Bont retailer (none local).
> ...


I'm not suggesting you use something different, what I'm saying is that it seems that there is an isolated spate of people buying shoes that don't fit them in your unique location. Bont sizing is problematic if you want to buy a shoe off a rack and hope that it works. It's like getting into a car and test driving it and deciding it's uncomfortable without first positioning the seat and wheel in a way that fits you. I bought all 3 Bont shoes online without ever trying them on. One is a full custom. Never met a retailer. You don't need one if you work with a good rep and follow Bont's instructions. Again, preference may way in bigger with a real cf shoe as opposed to a soft sided shoe, again, it's very different, but if they suck for you then you aren't wearing shoes that fit.


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## FTR (Sep 20, 2006)

PBL450 said:


> I'm not suggesting you use something different, what I'm saying is that it seems that there is an isolated spate of people buying shoes that don't fit them in your unique location. Bont sizing is problematic if you want to buy a shoe off a rack and hope that it works. It's like getting into a car and test driving it and deciding it's uncomfortable without first positioning the seat and wheel in a way that fits you. I bought all 3 Bont shoes online without ever trying them on. One is a full custom. Never met a retailer. You don't need one if you work with a good rep and follow Bont's instructions. Again, preference may way in bigger with a real cf shoe as opposed to a soft sided shoe, again, it's very different, but if they suck for you then you aren't wearing shoes that fit.


Well you may be correct if you consider an Australia wide cycling marketplace with thousands of members to be an isolated location.


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## PBL450 (Apr 12, 2014)

FTR said:


> Well you may be correct if you consider an Australia wide cycling marketplace with thousands of members to be an isolated location.


Killing your fellow Australians eh!! Maybe there are a few pair for sale because the volume in Australia as a % market saturation is just plan higher as it's in their home country? That might explain why, in the NYC market, where I am, in a population of over 21 million in statistical metropolitan population area, I have yet to see a single pair for sale locally. Some reviews:

http://cyclingtips.com/2015/05/bont-vaypor-s-shoe-review/

http://www.cyclingnews.com/features/product-review-bont-vaypor-road-shoes/


https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=NVtpYhIJsSo


http://www.bikeradar.com/us/road/gear/category/clothing/shoes/product/review-bont-vaypor-shoes-12-46000/


http://www.velominati.com/technology/bont-vaypor-and-vaypor-xc/


http://road.cc/content/review/95149-bont-riot-shoes


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## MMsRepBike (Apr 1, 2014)

To add to the record here they don't work for me. I've only tried the Vaypor and Vaypor Track though. I considered trying the Sprint because they're made and they fit differently, but I just kind of gave up. I'm most likely just in that 5% they don't work for. 

I also, probably for the same reason, cannot wear traditional flip flops. They just don't fit/work with my feet.

I've seen lots go up on ebay and such but they usually sell really fast.


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## Blue CheeseHead (Jul 14, 2008)

MMsRepBike said:


> ... Shortening a crank arm that much would be a huge deal.


Changing ones crank arms would be the wrong thing to do for any change in stack height. Yes, It pulls your foot up at the bottom of the pedal stroke to compensate for the shorter stack, but it also pulls your leg down at the top of the pedal stroke which exacerbates the shorter stack at that point.


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## cooskull (Nov 30, 2013)

MMsRepBike said:


> A point on that pressure point thing: Bont shoes are of course "fully heat moldable" and they can be repeatedly molded. However if you dig a little or just ask the company they will tell you that only a very small fraction of the users need to heat mold them. And if they are uncomfortable for you when you first wear them the chances of heat molding solving the issue are slim. I read something like a 95% figure from them of people that do not need the heat molding.


Seems odd to me that 95% of their customers wouldn't utilize the biggest selling feature of the brand. I had to mould mine multiple times to dial in the optimal fit, but maybe that's partly because I have a low-end model. Admittedly I would have been very hesitant to buy a high end model on the first try, as once you heat mould them they are non-returnable.

I do love my pair though. AFAIK they are the only biking shoe company that has figured out that putting the toe point close to the edge of the shoe and not closer to the middle makes the most anatomical sense. Who da thunk?


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## tvad (Aug 31, 2003)

FTR said:


> The Empire are hands down the most comfortable cycling shoes that I have worn (for my feet).


+1. Giro Empire SLX for me. Super nice. 

I tried Bont Vaypor, and they didn't work for me. Returned them within a week


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## T K (Feb 11, 2009)

Blue CheeseHead said:


> Changing ones crank arms would be the wrong thing to do for any change in stack height. Yes, It pulls your foot up at the bottom of the pedal stroke to compensate for the shorter stack, but it also pulls your leg down at the top of the pedal stroke which exacerbates the shorter stack at that point.


Pretty sure that is not his point and was not suggesting changing cranks to compensate for shoes. . But making the point that, that much change is a big deal.


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