# Dream HP vs. Cristallo vs. C-50



## fabsroman (Jul 14, 2006)

Okay, now that I have the frame builder narrowed down, I have three possible selections in frames. The Dream HP, the Cristallo, and the C-50. The only reason I am not looking at the Extreme C is because there aren't too many mountains around here that would justify it. I am 5' 8" and 150 lbs. Probably will get to 145 lbs as an ideal racing weight. I am a decent climber when I have the legs for it, and a pretty decent sprinter. Sprinting was my forte as a junior USCF rider, but I just couldn't beat Carney or Hincapie.

What is the ride difference in these frames?

Which is more comfortable to ride?

Which is better for road racing?

Which is better for crits?

Which is better for sprinting?

Which will be closer to steel, if any?

Which is repairable?


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## ballmon (Mar 23, 2005)

1. C-50 mo better
2. C-50 mo better
3. C-50
4. C-50
5. C-50
6. C-50 much mo better than steel (ya have to try it to believe!!!)
7. All depending on extent of damage

I believe that is 7 positives..........C-50 MO Better

Look I'm not going to kid ya, the C-50 is an expensive frame (there are worse), but the other truth is that it's the finest riding (carbon or otherwise) frame avalible anywhere. It's so good that it will the last bike you ever purchase. You just won't be lookn' at anything else.


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## dnalsaam (Dec 6, 2004)

fabsroman said:


> What is the ride difference in these frames?


Take them out for a spin by yourself. The truth is that the average Colnago purchaser will not be able to tell the difference between the three. If your racing background says anything about you, you might be one of the exception to this rule.



fabsroman said:


> Which is more comfortable to ride?


The C-50 should be the most comfortable



fabsroman said:


> Which is better for road racing?


The C-50 should be the best all-rounder



fabsroman said:


> Which is better for crits?


I would say that the Dream HP is likely the most appropriate in this case



fabsroman said:


> Which is better for sprinting?


I would give a slight nod to the Dream HP, with the C-50 just barely behind it.



fabsroman said:


> Which will be closer to steel, if any?


In what way similar to steel?



fabsroman said:


> Which is repairable?


The Dream will be the hardest to repair by far of the three. The C-50 the easiest.

Personally, I think that another question that you might have asked is what is the best value for your money if one wanted to race. To this question I would respond the Dream HP. 

To the question, what is the bike that your average middle-aged Colnago buyer should go after, I would state the Cristallo.

To the question which is the best all-around Colnago model, I would say the C-50.


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## fabsroman (Jul 14, 2006)

Here is my dillemma. I have a single authorized Colnago dealer in Maryland and a single one in Virginia. I do not like the one in Maryland and the one in Virginia is quite a ways away. Further, most other bike shops do not carry Colnagos.

My big debate is whether to buy one of the full carbon frames (i.e., Cristallo or C-50) or to buy the aluminum/carbon frame (i.e., Dream HP). I have never ridden either material. I was thinking about getting the Cristallo to see if I like carbon fiber. If so, I would buy the C-50 in the spring/summer of 2007 to race on. If I decide I do not like carbon fiber, I would buy the Dream HP next spring/summer to race on. It just seems to make more sense to me to buy the cheaper carbon fiber frame to see if I even like carbon fiber. Over the rest of this season and the beginning of next season, I am sure I would be able to figure out if carbon fiber is for me. Now, if I want the Colnago time trial bike next spring/summer, that might throw a wrench in the plans (i.e., my wife would probably kill me if I told her I wanted to spend that much on bikes).

Life would be easy if steal frames didn't weigh so much more than aluminum and carbon.


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## ballmon (Mar 23, 2005)

Forget the combo frames if you can afford to. The all corbon Colnagos will give you a ride you won't believe. It feels like you're riding on glass(unbroken of course). The metal only serves as a conduit for vibration and road buzz. I have a couple C-50s and have ridden a friends Cristallo a good bit and really think the C-50 does a better job of smoothing out the road. If you get a chance to try one, go for a ride of ten miles or more. It's the only way to get an idea about how great the Colnago carbon frames are. Or just take my word for it. 

You need to find the proper size then start looking around for the best prices. Totalcycling.com in GB always has seems to have great prices and really good and quick service. CBike.com is a huge Colnago dealer in the states with fantastic service and great people.


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## odeum (May 9, 2005)

as for proper size, pay close attn to the top tube, as the colnago size is c-to-t, and w/ the beefed tubes, this adds a couple cm per colnago size chart for seat tube...
www.trialtir-usa.com/2006-colnagoinfo/colsizecharts.htm

i got mine at
www.gvhbikes.com







ballmon said:


> job of smoothing out the road. If you get a chance to try one, go for a ride of ten miles or more. It's the only way to get an idea about how great the Colnago carbon frames are. Or just take my word for it.
> 
> You need to find the proper size then start looking around for the best prices. Totalcycling.com in GB always has seems to have great prices and really good and quick service. CBike.com is a huge Colnago dealer in the states with fantastic service and great people.


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## elviento (Mar 24, 2002)

I actually went from the C50 to the Dream HP. Sounds a bit odd but true. I was just bugged by the idea that the $6K+ C50 (Campy Record w carbon cranks, Cinelli Graphis, San Marco Rever, Mavic Carbone wheels, etc.), at around 18lbs w/ pedals, was much heavier than the other higher end bikes. 

So I grabbed a slightly used Dream HP which actually had a color I liked better. The weight is comparable to the C50, road feel is not really different with the Dream being slightly stiffer when out of the saddle (the Dream is a compact and has a slightly longer headtube. Maybe that's why). The bike is setup with some solid parts, such as DA10, Arione, Deda Magic bar, K-Force stem, Ambrosio wheels. Nothing really light but all no nonsense stuff. It's a great pleasure to ride. Given the cost of the Dream was less than 40% of the C50 in my case, I definitely considered it a better buy.


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## odeum (May 9, 2005)

*that's not a bad of yours weight for real world racing,*

take a look at this and the other '06 pro rigs and see that 16-17lb.s is 'bout right...
www.cyclingnews.com/tech/2006/probikes/?id=milram_colnago_becke
'specially when you consider the carbones on that c50 of yours weigh a kilo plus.






elviento said:


> I actually went from the C50 to the Dream HP. Sounds a bit odd but true. I was just bugged by the idea that the $6K+ C50 (Campy Record w carbon cranks, Cinelli Graphis, San Marco Rever, Mavic Carbone wheels, etc.), at around 18lbs w/ pedals, was much heavier than the other higher end bikes.
> 
> So I grabbed a slightly used Dream HP which actually had a color I liked better. The weight is comparable to the C50, road feel is not really different with the Dream being slightly stiffer when out of the saddle (the Dream is a compact and has a slightly longer headtube. Maybe that's why). The bike is setup with some solid parts, such as DA10, Arione, Deda Magic bar, K-Force stem, Ambrosio wheels. Nothing really light but all no nonsense stuff. It's a great pleasure to ride. Given the cost of the Dream was less than 40% of the C50 in my case, I definitely considered it a better buy.


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## fabsroman (Jul 14, 2006)

Ballmon,

What kind of riding do you do? Are you just a pleasure rider or do you race and really hammer on the C-50. As far as money is concerned, I can afford any of the three frames. Otherwise, I wouldn't be asking for a comparison on all three. I wouldn't need to know that the C-50 is the best for my purposes if I couldn't afford it.

Okay, I think I have it narrowed down to the Cristallo or the C-50. From what I have been reading, I think the C-50 provides a smoother ride over the Cristallo, and the Cristallo provides a smoother ride over the Dream HP.

*Here is what I do not know yet. Is the Dream HP stiffer than the Cristallo and the Cristallo stiffer than the C-50? I think that is going to be my biggest issue because I like sprinting and powering over hills and up hills.*

If I could, I would buy a Dream HP for crits, a C-50 for training, a Cristallo for road racing that isn't very hilly, and an Extreme C for those road races that involve significant hills. Of course, they would be all decked out with Campy. Problem is that I would need a home equity loan right now and I probably wouldn't live to see the first bike delivered because my wife would kill me.

So far, it looks like the 50cm sloping frame is the right one for me because I ride a 53cm traditional measured from c to t.


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## foxjbf (May 20, 2006)

Okay first off you are right definitely cannot go wrong on a Colnago.
Second, I just built a Cristallo, built and recvd last week
Third...ROCK SOLID!!!! I rode the dairyland dare today 200K approx 14000K of climbing and descending 52mi max. It only gets better carving the turns on the way down. The more an 185lbs 6'2" hac asked of her the more she gave! They say the C-50 is the standard for an all around my personal opinion Ernesto has created its competition.


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## fabsroman (Jul 14, 2006)

Now that is what I want to hear. Some opinions from guys that have put the Cristallo through the ringer. I take it that a 200K is about 125 miles. Not too shabby of a ride. Don't think I'll be doing that anytime soon. How much climbing did you do, because 14,000K just doesn't make any sense to me. I just do not know what it means.

What type of riding do you do (e.g., fitness riding, racing, club riding)? Did you notice any flex on the descents? See, this is something that I have never felt in my current steel bike. About the only thing I feel flexing on my current bike is the handlebars on out of the saddle climbing and sprinting.

Have you ever ridden a C-50 for any amount of time?


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## foxjbf (May 20, 2006)

To see the topo of the ride follow www.dairylanddare.com. As to the flex question none. Riding a Colnago is a completly diff. exp. it is almost what I would think olympic speed skating is like, lots of power translation...none lost in the down stroke....speed and response all carved on a sheet of ice..unreal...like nothing else I have riden before. I have not riden th C - 50 for any legth of time I did consider this bike as well but on the recommendation of my shop I took the chance and won big time!


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## KATZRKOL (Mar 4, 2004)

*Gonna race it??*



fabsroman said:


> Probably will get to 145 lbs as an ideal racing weight. I am a decent climber when I have the legs for it, and a pretty decent sprinter.


You'd be either stupid, or rich to race a C50. When I did race I always had a cheaper aluminum race bike, and then my nice bike. BTW, I love my c50 and it a great all rounder, but I'd not race it. Also, get ready to get your ass reamed if you buy one in the USA, and the distributer is a bastard monoply, and they fix prices to be high. I bought mine from Totalcycling for 3.2K. Far cheaper than here in the states.


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## fabsroman (Jul 14, 2006)

By meaning stupid or rich to race a C-50, I take it that you mean because of the possibility of a crash. From what I have read so far, it seems that the C-50 might be the smartest thing to race if you are worried about crashing and ruining the frame because it only costs around $700 to $800 to have a tube replaced. Seems as though the Dream HP, at $1,600, and the Cristallo, at $2,400, are both irrepaireable as far as tubes being replaced. The Dream HP because it is welded together and the Cristallo because it is a monocoque (sp.) frame (i.e., one single piece of carbon). So, from a monetary standpoint, it might actually be better to race the C-50 over the other two.

Now, it might be stupid to race the C-50 in certain situations if it is not as stiff as the Dream HP or the Cristallo. One situation is crits and the other is if you are a decent sprinter or hard climber. I haven't ridden any of the three bikes, so I do not know which is the stiffest. However, I think I am going to go with the Cristallo because it appears to be in the middle of the Dream HP and C-50 on stiffness and ride comfort. If I really like the carbon fiber ride, I'll probably get the C-50 next and if it is stiff enough I wouldn't hesitate to ride it in a road race and if it does not flex anymore than the Cristallo I wouldn't hesitate to make it my full time race bike.

I learned a long time ago that bike racing is not cheap and I was poor when I learned that lesson. Worked in a bike shop so that I could buy new wheels because mine had been mangled umpteen times over from wrecks. My frame had also been bent back into shape on one occassion, which is something that can be done with steel. That was in my first year or two of racing. After that, the crashes were a lot less frequent and when they did happen, they were usually a lot less violent. I tended to stay away from completely flat races and refused to race on courses that were flat and without corners (i.e., the ellipse behind the White House and airport runways). Where the pace is extremely high and there are no hills or corners to separate people out of the pack, big crashes are highly likely.

Regarding price in the US, I will agree that Trialtir has a monopoly since they are the only US distributor, but they must know that people looking at a frame with this type of price tag will more than likely have a computer and be able to do a search on the frame and price. Plus, if you are looking at a Colnago you will probably be looking at a Pinarello, DeRosa, Bianchi, Merckx, etc., so they have to be some what competitive with the other frames. I checked out Total Cycling a week or two ago and their price on the C-50 is around $3,600 before shipping. I found better prices at a Swiss place and a couple of British shops. Total Cycling has the price for the Cristallo at $3,600, which is the same as the price for the C-50 and that makes no sense at all.


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## mriddle (Nov 16, 2005)

*C-50 vs. cristallo*

I as well was very torn between the C-50 and the Cristallo. I tried for a long time to get some good info. on the Cristallo but was unable. In the end I went with the C-50 sloping in 54. Mike Perry @ Maestro was a huge help and is were you should buy for a number of reasons.

I couldn't be happier with the C-50, probably would have loved the Cristall as well but Mike said for pure comfort you can't beat the C-50. I am 42 and do fitness riding between 25-75 miles at a time. In the end, the C-50 was a "risk free" purchase, there was tons of information out there about the bike and it was all good. The Cristallo, at that time (Nov.05) was an unknown.

The other decision that was difficult was slope or no slope. I have never ridden anything but traditional frames and was set to order a 58. Took what I would call a huge chance and went with the slope. Best thing I ever did, the bike feels like it was custom built for me. The Colnago slope is so suttle that even traditionalist would like it.


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## KATZRKOL (Mar 4, 2004)

*Kind of. .*



fabsroman said:


> By meaning stupid or rich to race a C-50, I take it that you mean because of the possibility of a crash.


Ernesto will not be waiting for your frame to arrive to repair. I expect you'd be waiting 6 months or so to get it back. And I'd buy through Maestro UK (Mike Perry) if I were to do it again. I did Totalcycling as they had my 52cm in NL4 color in stock, which is exactly what I wanted. .


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## fabsroman (Jul 14, 2006)

Mike Perry is a hundred or so more than Bellatisport, and the Eurus wheels at Bellatisport are $75 cheaper. While I have money now, I am still pretty cheap.

mriddle,

Nice looking bike. I have been debating between the EITA color scheme because I am 100% Italian and the NS03 because my current bike is a white and red fade and I still wanted those colors in it. I was set on the NS03 until I saw your bike. The best thing I can do at this point is order a frame and just concentrate on work so that I can buy a second one if I am really unhappy with the one I buy or if the one I buy will not be used for everything.

I think I am going to order the Cristallo tomorrow along with the Eurus wheelset. Campy record will be ordered once the 2007 group comes out, and so I don't have to see $5,000 on my credit card bill in one fell swoop (i.e., my wife will be able to swallow it a little easier in small doses).

With that said, I will still take any advice anybody has to offer, especially personal experience on the Cristallo.

Thanks to everybody else for the advice, and if I end up not liking carbon frames you can bet the Dream HP will be the next frame purchased.


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## oneslowmofo (Feb 29, 2004)

*Mriddle*

That is one sweet sloping C50. I'm thinking about buying an Extreme C in EITA in a 52 Sloping geo. I have a C50 now but the curiosity on the ride / weight differences between the two is getting the best of me. I've got a good quote from Mike at Maestro. I'll be listing my 56cm 06 C50 soon.


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## velorider4 (Aug 5, 2006)

Im also looking at the Dream. Is it more of a racebike? Is there a better Colnago frame for more all-around riding for group rides, training, as well as racing? Im trying to build a bike and not go over $5000. 

Thanks


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## rkdvsm (Jul 15, 2006)

That is one beautiful bike!!!! I want it!!!

Anyway, what does sloped mean in a C50? What exactly is sloped? Is that what most people prefer?



mriddle said:


> I as well was very torn between the C-50 and the Cristallo. I tried for a long time to get some good info. on the Cristallo but was unable. In the end I went with the C-50 sloping in 54. Mike Perry @ Maestro was a huge help and is were you should buy for a number of reasons.
> 
> I couldn't be happier with the C-50, probably would have loved the Cristall as well but Mike said for pure comfort you can't beat the C-50. I am 42 and do fitness riding between 25-75 miles at a time. In the end, the C-50 was a "risk free" purchase, there was tons of information out there about the bike and it was all good. The Cristallo, at that time (Nov.05) was an unknown.
> 
> The other decision that was difficult was slope or no slope. I have never ridden anything but traditional frames and was set to order a 58. Took what I would call a huge chance and went with the slope. Best thing I ever did, the bike feels like it was custom built for me. The Colnago slope is so suttle that even traditionalist would like it.


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## fabsroman (Jul 14, 2006)

Sloped frames means that the top tube slopes downward from the head tube to the seat tube, instead of being horizontal to the ground the entire way. The two frame selections are nowadays are sloped and horizontal/traditional. I have been riding a traditional road frame for the last 20 years, but I have been riding a sloped moutain bike frame for the last 7 years. I notice no difference between the two. However, in exactly the same type of frame (i.e., Colnago C-50 sloped vs. Colnago C-50 Traditional), the sloped frames are supposed to be stiffer and lighter because they are slightly smaller. The seatpost on sloped bikes has to be longer though, and flex can sometimes be felt in the seatpost.

A 50cm sloped Colnago frame is about the same as a 52cm c to c traditional frame.

Hope this all helps.


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## brewster (Jun 15, 2004)

I love that color combo on that C50...nice choice. I have both a traditional frame and a semi-sloping frame set up identically. The only difference I notice is the center of gravity seems a little lower on the slope frame when standing out of the saddle. And with my 29 inch inseam, there is a little more room when I'm standing over it in the parking lot. Other than that, it's for looks. The semi-slope does look more modern, I suppose.

brewster


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## rkdvsm (Jul 15, 2006)

brewster said:


> I love that color combo on that C50...nice choice. I have both a traditional frame and a semi-sloping frame set up identically. The only difference I notice is the center of gravity seems a little lower on the slope frame when standing out of the saddle. And with my 29 inch inseam, there is a little more room when I'm standing over it in the parking lot. Other than that, it's for looks. The semi-slope does look more modern, I suppose.
> 
> brewster


Yes, that's my favorite color scheme as well. I think on the websites it says that it's EITA, whatever that means.

Anyway, if I purchase a C-50 it would be in those colors. As for the slope issue, thanks for the reply. I still don't know what would be best for me. I like something more compact suitable for racing so I guess that would mean that sloped would be the way to go.

Anyway, the C-50 is a thing of beauty!


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## IcemanYVR (Jul 27, 2006)

fabsroman said:


> Life would be easy if steal frames didn't weigh so much more than aluminum and carbon.


If you are willing to spend the cash, you can build up a MasterXLite in your size for under 16lbs. Yes the frames are heavier, but they weight can be brought down if you are willing to ride tubulars, and spend a little cash. 

I have a MasterXLite, in a 62cm, that weighs just a hair over 18lbs on the road.


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## fabsroman (Jul 14, 2006)

One day I will have to weigh my current bike. Just need to find a scale somewhere to accomplish that feat.

I have ridden an Italian steel frame from a little known builder/racer (i.e., Mino Denti) for the last 20 years. I have also been using tubulars for the last 18 years with the exception of my mountain bike, but my road bike sees 20 times the mileage of my mountain bike (i.e., bought the mountain bike because each of my sisters bought one and they wanted me to ride with them. Now, I ride my MTB a little and theirs sit in my parents garage collecting dust).

Anyway, I digress. Regarding the tubulars, I am about to purchase some tubular FSA's or Zipp's, so the cash isn't the issue. I am also debating whether to take two of my three sets of Campy tubulars and re-build them with 130mm rear hubs so that I can use them on my new bike for training and back up. The current hubs they have are 126mm and they are not cassette friendly.

I ended up ordering the Cristallo and will probably get it in a little less than a month. Now, I am debating whether or not to have my old steel bike repainted/refurbished. If I do decide to get it refurbished, I will be debating whether to upgrade it to Campy's new Record components or to leave it with the vintage stuff which still continues to work fine, friction shifters and all.


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## Fignon's Barber (Mar 2, 2004)

After reading the thread, cristallo seams to be your right choice. Take the money you save over the C-50, and use it to get a set of eurus and neutrons. It will give you the feel of 2 different bikes.


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## fabsroman (Jul 14, 2006)

I have been back and forth on wheels for this bike, just like I was back and forth on frames for the bike. I know I want tubulars because that is all I have been riding for 18 years and I really love them. However, the brand and make of wheel is driving me crazy. I have three sets of older Campy wheels right now, but they are all set up with 126mm rear hubs. So, I am going to buy two Record rear hubs and rebuild two of the nicer sets so that I can use them for training on the new bike. Then, I was going to get some Zipps 202's and 404's, then switched to wanting some Reynolds Cirro COM's and Stratus DV's. Now, I am thinking about getting the Campy Boras and Hyperons over time. I don't want to spend that kind of money on wheels right away because it would hurt way too much both mentally and physically (i.e., my wife might hit me with a pot). LOL

Has anybody ever tried to paint older rims? I might end up asking this question in the wheels forum. My older wheels are gold and silver in color, and since the new bike is going to be mostly black with red accents, I was thinking about painting them black or red. What do you guys think about that idea, and if it is a good idea, what color would you pick?


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