# Help ID this Lugged Steel LeMond "Tour de France"



## SMS (Jan 30, 2005)

Can anyone help ID this lugged steel LeMond "Tour de France" Was curious what kind of tubing, and who might have made it....Is it pre Trek? The BB has Italian threading...

Thanks in Advance!


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## meat tooth paste (Oct 6, 2004)

Looks pre-Trek to me. I know Calfee made the carbon Lemonds from that period.


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## ElvisMerckx (Oct 11, 2002)

*Sure, I used to race on one!*



SMS said:


> Can anyone help ID this lugged steel LeMond "Tour de France" Was curious what kind of tubing, and who might have made it....Is it pre Trek? The BB has Italian threading...


It was made in Italy and brought into the U.S. as a raw steel frame by Ten Speed Drive Imports, where it was painted and sold under the name LeMond. I'd date the frame in the late 80's, early 90's. It's definitely pre-Trek.

The tubing is Columbus SLX, in larger frames they used SL and SP mixed tubes. They also used something called TSX, but I can't remember how it would be different from SLX.


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## Fogdweller (Mar 26, 2004)

I've heard that and Italian producer called Bilato was making Lemond steel for a short time prior to the Trek takeover in 94. If it's early 90s, you would think it would mention 2 worlds and 3 tours instead of one of each. He wasn't building bikes prior to 89 I don't think. Anyone know any different?

Ten Speed Drive was the main importer for Ciocc and Guercotti at the time though nothing on this frame looks like their work. I owned both and remember them well.


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## makarios (Dec 7, 2004)

*My vote is Bilato*

my vote is Bilato. the brake bridge looks nearly identical (with exception to the Lemond inscription) to my wife's Tomasso by Bilato.


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## oldbalddude (Jan 21, 2009)

I wondered if you still have this Lemond frame?
I just picked one up today and it had the original Mavic BB in it.


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## aptivaboy (Nov 21, 2009)

The "hand made," engraving on the brake bridge marks it as a Billato. I'm not saying that every Billato-built Lemond had that, but its a fairly reliable indicator. The Trek Lemonds don't, and I've never seen a Calfee-Lemond with it, although I look forward to being proven incorrect; you learn something new everyday. 

I've got a TSX Z from the Bay en route to me, and it is definitely a Billato-Lemond with the same hallmarks, including the choice of sleeker fork crown.


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## Herbie (Nov 12, 2010)

I have a "Greg LeMond " Ti from the era. Greg at the time had his own company similar to what Hampstein does today. He designed the bikes and had others build them. Mine is made by litespeed. His company went bankrupt, and after a short time he licensed his name and contracted with Trek. I bought mine new in 1992. His company only lasted for a couple of years so this bike would date to sometime around there.


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## aptivaboy (Nov 21, 2009)

Okay, my Team Z came yesterday. It is absolutely identical to your's in all details that I can see, except that mine has a number hanger since its purportedly an actual Team Z frame, as in ridden by the team. Even the top tube cable braze on style is identical. Mine is a Billato so your's should be, as well, unless the Gregster had another assembly line somewhere making them. The decals are also identical. Only the paint is different. I'd say Billato, for sure. Do you know what tubing your's it? Mine is TSX. Running a finger up the seat and down tubes from the bottom bracket should indicate if there are SLX or TSX spiral rifling in there. There should also be a small serial number on the non-drive side of the bottom bracket shell. That may indicate something, of someone knows how to decode Lemond serials. Mine is "1Y," whatever the heck that means.


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## laffeaux (Dec 12, 2001)

aptivaboy said:


> Mine is a Billato so your's should be, as well, unless the Gregster had another assembly line somewhere making them.


LeMond's bikes (and assumed the remainder of the team's bikes) where made by Della Santa in Reno, NV. There were a couple of versions of the Della Santa LeMond's in addition to the Billato bikes which I thought were "replicas" and not actual team bikes. (I could be wrong and some of the team members may have used the Billato frames. Anyone know for sure?)


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## aptivaboy (Nov 21, 2009)

laffeaux said:


> LeMond's bikes (and assumed the remainder of the team's bikes) where made by Della Santa in Reno, NV. There were a couple of versions of the Della Santa LeMond's in addition to the Billato bikes which I thought were "replicas" and not actual team bikes. (I could be wrong and some of the team members may have used the Billato frames. Anyone know for sure?)


Yes and no. The Della Santa Lemonds predate the Billato Lemond operation. Once Greg won the Tour again in 1989 and 1990, the Lemond line was predominantly a Billato show since they could produce in large numbers while a single man shop like Della Santa could not, with Calfee making the carbon Lemonds. Now, I'm not saying that Della Santa didn't still make the occasional special order steel Lemond, but by the time the thread starter's bike was made, judging by the hallmarks and decal graphics, it was Billato doing the dirty work. 

I would tend to think that Team Z and later GAN used Billato steel frames if for no other reason than accessibility. Need a frame fast? Billato is right over the border in Italy. Della Santa, however, was an ocean and most of a continent away. Being a larger operation, they could amortize the frames quickly and cut costs, precisely the reason that you don't see small shops sponsor large teams often - they can't save on those costs. I'm somewhat surprised at how rough my TSX Team Z frame is (it was Kim Andersen's frame, according to the Bob Lemond certificate that came with it). The decals weren't clear coated, for example. It was clearly a quickly made frame meant to pound out the miles on, a pro's tool, not a piece of art.


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## aptivaboy (Nov 21, 2009)

I ran across this thread which jogged my memory a bit: Della Santa built Lemond pics - The Paceline Forum

A Della Santa-built Lemond will be stamped with a "DS" on the bottom bracket shell. Otherwise, its 99% certain that its a Billato. Note the different graphics for the earlier Della Santa Lemond, and the more conventional chainstay bridge (the Billato ones are the web-like type), different seat stay caps, and the fork crown; all vary from the known Billato forms. 

Robert


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## laffeaux (Dec 12, 2001)

A Della Santa was on eBay a few months back and I e-mailed Della Santa about it. I received the response back form someone that works for him: "Yes, this is indeed a Team LeMond frame which Roland built. It was made back in the earliest days when Greg was beginning to promote his own bicycle line. "Team LeMond" was the early iteration of the "LeMond" brand, which was conceived and developed at College Cyclery here in Reno. The lower-end frames were built by Bottechia, the middle by Scapin, and the high-end frames were built by Roland himself. This was likely the 21st made, based on the serial number. Subsequent frames would have been labeled "DS TL" and the three digit serial number."

In the end I decided to not bid on the frame, but it was a nice one.


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