# Zero gravity brakes vs DA 7800



## hanzo111

I decided last month i would lighten my bike up a bit, approx 1 1/2 pounds so i started with my brakes, I found a good deal on these brakes on Ebay so i went for it. Here is a comparison between 2012 Zero Gravity Negative GSL brake Set and DA 7800

They are not as grabby as the Dura ace brakes but you can see a huge difference in weight. I rode them for 15 miles and will readjust them tonight.

Rear Zero gravity 








Front Zero gravity









Front DA 7800








Rear DA 7800









I also replaced the seat post as well, i will post here after i take pics.



Hanzo111


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## jhbeeton

*I too felt the draw to the ZG*

only to switch back when I realized the pain that the ZG brakes were when changing wheels between alloy trainers & carbon race wheels ( the proprietary pad holders make pad change out not worth the time & bloodied fingers ... pliers are mandatory for the process unless you trim the pads down and risk them popping out )

The ZG also don't adjust well between wheels with different rim widths ... the stock spring quickly gets out of range of effective return force when you sub in a 23mm wide rim from a 19 or 21mm rim ... doesn't seem like a big difference but enough for me to forgo the 1/4lb weight savings ... 

So for anyone interested in good performing brakes, good weight savings but is likely to use the same wheels ... I have a set of brakes for you! Make me an offer before my teenage kid gets them ( He's going to have the same issue but he can't help himself).


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## early one

hanzo111 said:


> \
> They are not as grabby as the Dura ace brakes but you can see a huge difference in weight. I rode them for 15 miles and will readjust them tonight.


With brakes, grabby is a good thing.


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## robdamanii

I'll agree with what's been said here.

While I like the Zero G modulation and weight, and I've never had problems with stopping power, I'm constantly annoyed that they are high maintenance. Forget if you do any dirt road riding and the rear caliper gets dirty: it needs disassembly and lubing just to move freely again, and that aggravates me to no end.

I'm seriously considering swapping to something different. I hear the new Red is well placed both weight and power wise.


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## spade2you

robdamanii said:


> I'll agree with what's been said here.
> 
> While I like the Zero G modulation and weight, and I've never had problems with stopping power, I'm constantly annoyed that they are high maintenance. Forget if you do any dirt road riding and the rear caliper gets dirty: it needs disassembly and lubing just to move freely again, and that aggravates me to no end.
> 
> I'm seriously considering swapping to something different. I hear the new Red is well placed both weight and power wise.


Not much of a fan of my Zero G, either.


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## MerlinAma

robdamanii said:


> ........ I'm constantly annoyed that they are high maintenance. Forget if you do any dirt road riding and the rear caliper gets dirty: it needs disassembly and lubing just to move freely again, and that aggravates me to no end......


Exactly. I've abandoned all of my Zero Gravity brakes since the least little amount of dirt/dust seems to make them not return well. That, in turn, causes my levers to rattle and that, in turn, causes me to be really annoyed, I like quiet bikes!

Not a fan of the Zero Gravity brake!


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## Mdeth1313

I had zg brakes and switched to kcnc when they came out . ZG's are just a pain to set up and keep adjusted. My front brake was constantly off center. I've had no issues w/ the cb1's (kcnc)- not as much stopping power, but more than enough for me. 

Eventually I'll get a set of eebrakes.


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## Ramjm_2000

Also recently divorced my Ciamillos (Negative and Zero Gs). Got sick of the weak return spring and re-centering. Moved to Hive Revls and couldn't be happier.

JR


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## ckralick

It is not all about the weight. It is also the quality of the product and the company behind the product. Beware of Ciamillo and Negative or Zero Gravity brakes. It the cheaper, lighter springs fail, do not send your product in for repair. It will never be returned and you will be out the original money you paid for the brakes.


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## eddymerckxwannabe

some weight savings just aren't worth it. Saddle and brakes are two of those


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## ckralick

*Negative Gravity - Not worth the trouble*

I am not sure why so many people used to rave about the weight savings of Negative Gravity brakes. With all the problems centering the brakes, the weak spring tension and the lack of customer care, they are just not worth it.


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## hanzo111

I think this is funny but I never owned the original Zero gravity brakes, I am using the 2012 brakes and they are great! After 9000+ miles on my DA 7800 brakes I see no difference in braking between the two. I guess the people who have posted negative things about the brakes have their reasons but it must be with the older brakes.

To early one, Grabby brakes are NOT a good thing, its not good on bicycles just as it is not good on motorcycles and cars. 

regards

Hanzo


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## Zachariah

No more Ciamillo for me either. I'm quite content going back to my Dura Ace 7800...they are simply bulletproof. I'll shave weight elsewhere, thank you.


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## CleavesF

There was a brake shootout, Red, Campy, Shimano, etc... 

DA7800 were voted best brakes all around. Even superior to the latest DA7900. No Joke.


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## Zachariah

CleavesF said:


> There was a brake shootout, Red, Campy, Shimano, etc...
> 
> DA7800 were voted best brakes all around. Even superior to the latest DA7900. No Joke.


It's true!


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## ericm979

I tried KCNC CB1s and had problems with my hands hurting after sessions of climbing repeats (62 miles, 8700', and 31 miles of twisty descent). It was bad enough that I went back to my 7800 brakes.

I recently switched to EEs. They work almost at well as the 7800s- the spring tension is a little higher, that's the main difference. I tried the same ride this weekend and did not have a problem with my hands.

But the EEs can't be adjusted while riding. So if you break a spoke in a race, you can't slack off the brake adjustment so the rim doesn't rub. Or if you flat and get a rim that's a different width. So far that's the main drawback with the EEs.


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## mtnroadie

*I ended up getting the TRP 970sl…. Good so far.*

I looked at the Camillos and EE brakes when I was shopping for new brakes last year to replace my 5600 brakes. The 5600 brakes worked great the only thing was they were super heavy and my bike was going on a diet.

I ended up settling on the TRP 970sl in white. I passed on the Camillos for two reasons, the reviews were mediocre and I really wanted a dual pivot brake. I don’t know about you guys but I can tell the difference in stopping power and control. Having said that I never tried the Camillos or any cam-actuated brakes.

The EEs are sweet, I really really wanted them but just could not justify spending $650 on brakes. Is EE out of their minds charging that kind of $ for brakes!!? At $400 I would have swallowed the bitter pill and pulled the trigger, but $650 is insane.

So I found a happy medium with the TRPs, I think I paid like $300 shipped. Super light I think 215g for the set. At first I was not too thrilled with them, they felt slightly more spongy than my 5600, was it the magnesium that felt flexy? I thought. 

After the first few rides I got used to them and now I really like them. There is more modulation (hence the initial spongy impression) than the 5600, but they are still very powerful. I am running them with EC90SL wheels and yellows swiss pro plus pads. The stock pro pads felt really bad, so I switched back to the stock Easton yellow swiss pro plus pads and it was like magic.

I will say one thing about TRP/Tektro as a company that made me regret the purchase, I read that they stole the design for their 960 brakes form a guy (cant remember the name) here in the US that came up with the design and tried to sell it to Tektro only to later have them copy it and produce it in Asia. The guy has a website which goes into detail about this theft. Probably just about any large company has shady stories like this (Shimano for sure, how many times have they been sued?), but his story about TRP really left a bad impression in my mind.

I am very happy with my TRP970sl, I do think they are overpriced but if you can get them cheap online they are worth it. As soon as EE comes to their senses and puts a realistic price on their brakes I am getting a set.


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## Special Eyes

I tried to like my neg G's for many months. Too many problems and low confidence in their stopping power. I just swapped to new TRP 960's. I am very happy to get the ng's out of my life, and before they fail on a descent. What a difference....

TRP


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## Local Hero

Zero Gravity brakes were destroyed in this thread.


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## AvantDale

Ran my Zero G's for three years and moved on to the GSL's. 

Sure they sucked to set up...but once set up...they've been great for me. I've been on the GSL's for about two months...and they are still centered.

SRAM has also moved on to the single pivot cam design. I'm sure their other brakes will follow soon. Ciamillo has been using that from the start.


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## rcjunkie3000

I'll be getting a set of SRAM Red brakes instead thanks to this thread.


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## MarcoL

Local Hero said:


> Zero Gravity brakes were destroyed in this thread.


I have ciamillos in my 2 bikes, the problem is, if the LBS does not install them correctly, the off center problem will be a pain.

As I do the service in my bikes, I centered, (cable length on the rear and also in the front) the breakes correctly and they have been free of problem in 2 years in my ARCHON (litespeed) and my Colnago EPS

I think the problem it is not the design, it is the bike mechanic.

Best


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## Dray3573

I switched from Rival brakes to a set of negative GSL's that I found on Ebay for a decent price. It took a bit to get them dialed in, but they have been performing quiet well over the last 4,000 miles or so. I just recently replaced my cables to some Yokozuna Reaction's and thought I would be back at square one getting them dialed in again, but the mechanic who did the work has plenty of experience working with those brakes and all is well. I think finding the right mechanic is key.


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## Tzvia

Every time I think 'diet time!' with the road bike, I think of changing out the Dura Ace 7700s I've been riding on since the late 90s. But I read threads like this and well, I just can't muster the nerve to actually try anything else. Yea my brakes are heavy, but yea they also work great, center perfectly and stay that way, and in 14 or so years, have been bulletproof on more than a few different bikes. Maybe I will get up the nerve to try those new Red brakes, or not... I wonder how much weight they will save me... 

Spent my last diet money on a Dorico Limited seatpost . Now that is a thing of beauty that is light weight and works.


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## jfitzem

*Zero Gravity problem*

Have been running ZG brakes since 2008. hardly any problems.
Took bike in for shifter upgrade and they noticed the titanium had cracked on the brake arm.
I have never wrecked or dropped this bike (and bike shows it). ZG told me there was nothing they could do.
My 2 cents.


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## ralph1

Tzvia said:


> Every time I think 'diet time!' with the road bike, I think of changing out the Dura Ace 7700s I've been riding on since the late 90s. But I read threads like this and well, I just can't muster the nerve to actually try anything else. Yea my brakes are heavy, but yea they also work great, center perfectly and stay that way, and in 14 or so years, have been bulletproof on more than a few different bikes. Maybe I will get up the nerve to try those new Red brakes, or not... I wonder how much weight they will save me...
> 
> Spent my last diet money on a Dorico Limited seatpost . Now that is a thing of beauty that is light weight and works.


Easy choice, go with 7800s, you can get them cheap now and as people have said they are one of the better brakes around.

My 7800 groupo is 6 years old and has around 40k on it, still goes and stops well. Why oh why do I look at upgrading:mad2:

cheers

Pete


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## jhbeeton

*Maintenance*

Took it upon myself to do a tear down, clean, lube & reassemble... took about 15-20mins per brake and now good as new... main pivot, lever pivot and quick release pivot were all contaminated with road grit. Once cleaned and lubed, good as new.

Also realized that it's pretty easy to break the units down if you ever wanted to update the color or replace a part.

* note for anyone doing this, use a bench vice to hold a 5 mm allen key vertically... place the brake with the pivot engaged with the allen key and then proceed with unthreading the 13mm spacer/nut off the pivot bolt. Once the large diameter threads are disengaged, the whole assembly can be slip up and off the pivot, this allows the spring to release it's tension and easily allow the turned over ends to be removed. ( ** Super note - when reinstalling do the exact same steps in reverse... insert end of spring, recoil up components, make sure you reinstall the (2) thin spacers between the arms and the nut and then slide over the pivot bolt.)

This little trick makes it an easy job ( helps to have a second set of hands to help put those spacers back in.

JH


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## Nob

> Beware of Ciamillo and Negative or Zero Gravity brakes. If the cheaper, lighter springs fail, do not send your product in for repair. It will never be returned and you will be out the original money you paid for the brakes.


I'd be interested in hearing other's experience with this or customer service in general. Ciamillo offers a NG upgrade on their web site for $100 per set to the newest GSL version.


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## jhbeeton

Now that I've taken the time to see what it takes to maintain the brakes, I won't let the friction build up to the point that I'm frustrated. 

On the spring strength issue, I see a business opportunity- take the existing spring to a tool & die shop, measure the gauge wire, replicate the bends and spec a stiffer spring steel to give you the performance you want. You'll spend a few hundred to do this and then you recover all your cost and the some by selling DIY spring kits on your favorite Internet business site

Just saying....


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## MarcoL

Some times is better to clean the cable and carefully lube the pivots than replace the spring, I have not had any problems on many miles, In my experience the only thing is good maintenience, and careful instalation.
View attachment 259483
View attachment 259484


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## xjbaylor

MarcoL said:


> I think the problem it is not the design, it is the bike mechanic.


With regards to the centering issue, I agree with you for the most part. However, the weak return spring has nothing to do with the mechanic, and everything to do with the design.


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## raymonda

Love my two pair of Zero's. But I agree that they are not for those that require a stiff return spring. I've never had maintaince issues that couldn't be resolved quickly. As for set up, they were no problem with mine and the brake pads are as easy to replace as my Campy.


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## Nob

"* note for anyone doing this, use a bench vice to hold a 5 mm allen key vertically... place the brake with the pivot engaged with the allen key and then proceed with unthreading the 13mm spacer/nut off the pivot bolt.:

Thanks for the tip! Easy enough and the brakes work better than ever. No new spring or a RA# needed.


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## jmitro

hanzo111 said:


> To early one, Grabby brakes are NOT a good thing, its not good on bicycles just as it is not good on motorcycles and cars.


for one thing, being grabby is a function of the brake pads, not the brake caliper.

secondly, it depends on how one defines "grabby." if one means they easily stop the bike without a ton of brake lever pressure, I'd say it's a good thing.


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## Nob

Between 7800s and NGs...feel and stopping power there is no comparison imo. NGs are much much better. But I have not made a direct comparison with both running the same pads....and likely won't any time soon.


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## aclinjury

Planet X branded brakes (same as "Super light, Mokney, and I'm sure other brands too) are 100g/pair (and this includes pads too) are the best bang for the bucks in terms of money, weight, performance. They're single pivot but with a redesigned cam, it's much more powerful than Zero. 

I sse them with Swiss green pads (softer rubber) and Dura ace 7800 levers, and I can descend mountains with 100% in braking confidence. Not sure how other shift levers would work with these brakes since different levers give different leverage ration, but with DA 7800 levers and Swiss green pads, these brakes are just as powerful as the DA 7800 calipers in every way.


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## durianrider

ZG's are a waste of alloy. I can't believe people want to save 120g on their brakes but they still eat steak and eggs lol!

Trim it of ya gut before you worry about the bike. FTR I ride 6600 ultegra and 7800DA. I rate em both.

Sorry but 120g aint gonna make any difference unless your talking 1/8th a wheel length over a 20k HC climb but even then perhaps not..


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## jhbeeton

*25c tire incompatibility *

Mounted a fantastic pair of 25c fmb paris Roubaix tires on my powertap race wheels only to discover that the added volume now interferes with my beautifully smooth NG's. 

Not being able to raise the brake assembly with fixed pads ( like the old campy delta brake) or start off with a tonne of clearance and drop the pads ( like std Shimano ) kills this deal

If a file could fix the interference I would but it's at the pivot and there's not a lot of meat there


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## raymonda

durianrider said:


> ZG's are a waste of alloy. I can't believe people want to save 120g on their brakes but they still eat steak and eggs lol!
> 
> Trim it of ya gut before you worry about the bike. FTR I ride 6600 ultegra and 7800DA. I rate em both.
> 
> Sorry but 120g aint gonna make any difference unless your talking 1/8th a wheel length over a 20k HC climb but even then perhaps not..


In that case, Dura Ace, Ultegra, Record and Chorus are all a waste of money too. I have a pair of skeletal Veloce on a ride that works as well as all of them and they only cost $35.00 from Ribble. My guess is that they only weigh 30 grams more, too. So sell that over priced stuff and go for the cheap Campy and save money! 

However, I'm still not selling my ZG, as I love them!


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## AvantDale

MarcoL said:


> I think the problem it is not the design, it is the bike mechanic.


^ This ^


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## CleavesF

http://eecycleworks.com/VNJune BrakeTest.pdf

just for you guys who still are in ZG camp.


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## Zachariah

^^No wonder why I went back to DA 7800 and Swiss Stop pads....unbeatable combo!^^


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## SystemShock

CleavesF said:


> http://eecycleworks.com/VNJune BrakeTest.pdf
> 
> just for you guys who still are in ZG camp.



Awesome link, thanks. :thumbsup:
.


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## bikerzoid

Reviving this thread, the Negative G's have clearance issues with Zipp 404 FC. Any solutions?


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## robdamanii

bikerzoid said:


> Reviving this thread, the Negative G's have clearance issues with Zipp 404 FC. Any solutions?


I seem to recall they have some lower profile brake shoes that will give a bit more clearance.

I think I remember reading somewhere that Negative Gs have a big issue with wide rims: the cam can't actuate fully and a detectable loss of power is noted. I've stayed away from wide rims thus far, but I'm seriously considering swapping brakes and going to a wider rim...


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## lewdvig

I learned that with NGSL brakes cable length is key to getting them setup perfectly. I found stopping power quite good.


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## banosser

jhbeeton said:


> Took it upon myself to do a tear down, clean, lube & reassemble... took about 15-20mins per brake and now good as new... main pivot, lever pivot and quick release pivot were all contaminated with road grit. Once cleaned and lubed, good as new.
> 
> Also realized that it's pretty easy to break the units down if you ever wanted to update the color or replace a part.
> 
> * note for anyone doing this, use a bench vice to hold a 5 mm allen key vertically... place the brake with the pivot engaged with the allen key and then proceed with unthreading the 13mm spacer/nut off the pivot bolt. Once the large diameter threads are disengaged, the whole assembly can be slip up and off the pivot, this allows the spring to release it's tension and easily allow the turned over ends to be removed. ( ** Super note - when reinstalling do the exact same steps in reverse... insert end of spring, recoil up components, make sure you reinstall the (2) thin spacers between the arms and the nut and then slide over the pivot bolt.)
> 
> This little trick makes it an easy job ( helps to have a second set of hands to help put those spacers back in.
> 
> JH


You should do a DIY walk thru with pics for this :thumbsup:


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## AvantDale

bikerzoid said:


> Reviving this thread, the Negative G's have clearance issues with Zipp 404 FC. Any solutions?


I'm using the "super low" profile pad holders on my GSL's. I have a pair of 404 FC tubulars and work great.


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