# Which tire?



## Natedogz

I've been riding the stock Specialized Espoir Sport 700x25c tires with BlackBelt puncture protection that came on my bike when I bought it (370 grams per Specy site Specialized Bicycle Components ), but the rear is worn out and so it's time for at least a rear tire. I didn't rotate them and have heard that I should have to make them last longer.

Locally I have Specialized dealer, Performance Bike and several other LBS. After reading around it seems about 230g is a good weight for everyday reliable road tire. I've been riding every other day about 20 miles and once or twice a week 35 miles in flat to very hilly terrain. Thinking of going to 23mm tire, but not sure, I'm about 190lbs and ride all year all weather, rain or shine.

Local Specialized dealer has many Specialized tires to choose from and guy recommended these three.

Turbo Elite...$30 each
Specialized Bicycle Components
Casing: 60 TPI
Bead: Foldable
Center Compound: 70a / Shoulder Compound: 60a
Flat Protection: BlackBelt
700 x 23; psi 115-125; approx. weight 245g

Turbo Pro...$50
Casing: 127 TPI
Bead: Foldable
Center Compound: 70a / Shoulder Compound: 60a
Flat Protection: BlackBelt
700 x 23; psi 115-125; approx. weight 200g
700 x 25; psi 115-125; approx. weight 220g
Specialized Bicycle Components

Roubaix...$55
Casing: Endurant 120 TPI
Bead: Foldable
Center Compound: 70a / Shoulder Compound: 60a
Flat Protection: Endurant Casing and BlackBelt
700 x 23/25; psi 115-125; approx. weight 260g
700 x 25/28; psi 115-125; approx. weight 300g
Specialized Bicycle Components
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Performance has:

Hutchinson Fusion 3...buddy likes them, but I read couple reviews about them blowing off the rim, on sale $40
The best compromise between GRIP/PERFORMANCE/RESISTANCE
Triple compound
- hard rubber in the centre to improve wear and resistance to cuts and perforations, while also lowering rolling resistance
- Softer intermediate rubber to guaranty progressive accelerations in corners and safety thanks to a high level of grip
- Very soft lateral rubber for an unequalled grip in the tightest corners.
Kevlar Pro Tech
100% Kevlar reinforcement under the tread to increase the tire’s resistance to perforations and punctures by more than 50% without compromising performance.
210 grams
Hutchinson Tire : FUSION 3 - Kevlar ProTech

Michellin Pro 3...another buddy likes these, looks like discontinued they are not on Michellin's site anymore....on sale $40
Moto GP compound with Silica Energy rubber provides extra grip on the shoulders while lowering rolling resistance in the center
High Density Puncture Protector nylon belt delivers outstanding puncture resistance
High Protect Rim System protects the tire from rim bead friction
Pro 3 Race road tire's extra supple casing with 127 TPI and cross-ply fibers add flexibility, performance and light weight
No weight spec
Michelin Pro 3 Race Road Tire - Road Bike Tires

Michellin Pro4 Endurance or Service Course...on sale $55 and $60 respectively
Dual-compound tread ensures exceptional resistance to wear and enhanced grip when leaning through corners
The compound employed for the shoulders provides a very high level of grip on wet roads, while the compound used for the central part of the tread delivers greater protection against punctures and impact damage.
The combination of the 110 TPI casing and bead-to-bead breaker ply ensures outstanding resistance to perforation and contributes to the tire's remarkable durability
No weight spec
Michelin Bicycle USA - A better way forward®

Forte Pro Plus (the bead area of the tires seemed really thick and not very flexy for a folding tire)
Dual compound tread improves wear resistance, boosts traction in the climbs and provides faster center-line acceleration
Low rolling resistance improves cornering confidence at higher speeds
Armor Clad Technology provides durable bead-to-bead protection against sidewall cuts, abrasions and tread punctures, yet is thin and flexible enough that it doesn't compromise ride quality
120 TPI casing ensures a supple, stable ride
252 grams per PB site (package stated 235 grams...lol)
Forté Pro+ Road Tire - Road Bike Tires

I'd like to buy a tire locally if possible since rear is about shot, recommendations please.


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## dcgriz

From the tires you listed I would go with the Michelin 4 SC in 25mm for your weight.
If you are open to other makes, also consider the Conti 4000s and GP 4-season. A good set of tires is one of the least expensive but smartest upgrades you could do to any bike.


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## MPov

At your weight you should consider sticking with 25s. The Michelins are popular tires and it is hard to go wrong with them. I also second the recommendation that you consider the Contis. I run the GP 4000S and really like them.


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## Natedogz

Oops double post, site had database error twice and I didn't think it posted. :blush2:


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## Natedogz

Thanks for the replies and yes I'm open to other tire suggestions, these are just some locally available that seemed good. After more reading the Forte tires are out and it looks like 25s are way to go for me. Specialized tires have been good to me in all weather and surface conditions, thinking I may go with:

Espoir Elite 700x25...$35
Casing: 60 TPI
Bead: Foldable
Center Compound: 70a / Shoulder Compound: 60a Compound: 70a for 700 x 25
Flat Protection: BlackBelt X 2
700 x 23; psi 110-125; approx. weight 260g
700 x 25; psi 110-125; approx. weight 270g
Specialized Bicycle Components

or

Turbo Pro 700x25...$55
Casing: 127 TPI
Bead: Foldable
Center Compound: 70a / Shoulder Compound: 60a
Flat Protection: BlackBelt
700 x 23; psi 115-125; approx. weight 200g
700 x 25; psi 115-125; approx. weight 220g
Specialized Bicycle Components

I'm leaning towards the cheaper Espoir Elite, why should I go with the more expensive or cheaper of the two?


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## SauronHimself

I'd second the Continental GP 4000S. I've been very pleased with these tires, and I currently own the 700x23c size. In your case you might want to stick with a 25c tire for comfort reasons. Going from 25c to 23c you may notice a rougher ride and then get buyer's remorse. The performance difference, if any, is negligible. I've also been a fan of the Vittoria Rubino Pro 3 tire. It's another great all-around tire that is slightly cheaper than the 4000S. Puncture protection on both is great in my experience, and they roll well.


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## vagabondcyclist

Double post--database issue.


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## vagabondcyclist

MPov said:


> At your weight you should consider sticking with 25s. The Michelins are popular tires and it is hard to go wrong with them. I also second the recommendation that you consider the Contis. I run the GP 4000S and really like them.


I agree. Stick with the 25s. They'll give you a better ride and handling. 

Keep in mind there is no standard for measuring so that one company's 25c tire may measure 26.5 when mounted or even 28. 

Moreover, different rim and tire combinations will influence the final size. For example my 25c Conti GP 4000s tires measure a bit wider when mounted on my HED Ardennes rims than when mounted on my Mavic Open Pro rims. 

All of the tires you listed--Michelin and Hutchinson are fine to ok tires. I've run Michelin and Hutchinson as well as Continental GP--both the 4000s and the 4 Season. Currently running Continental GP 4000s. There's nothing wrong with buying close out tires from Michelin, Hutchinson, and Continental (if you can find them). 

I've never had the tire issues some people report--blowing off the rim, sidewall issues, etc. even when I was living and racing in the Midwest 12 months of the year on crappy farm roads and MUTs. One thing to check after switching tire brands is that the brake pads clear and don't make ANY contact with the tire (see above about different tire sizes and shapes). Buying local does make sense. That way if you do have an issue you can drop them off and get new ones if it is a warranty issue.


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## Natedogz

vagabondcyclist said:


> Double post--database issue.


Looks like several site issues, this thread is still down the list, should have popped back to top with each reply. Also shows 0 replies, although it seems to be counting the thread views. lol :/


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## Pitts Pilot

dcgriz said:


> From the tires you listed I would go with the Michelin 4 SC in 25mm for your weight.
> If you are open to other makes, also consider the Conti 4000s and GP 4-season. A good set of tires is one of the least expensive but smartest upgrades you could do to any bike.


Hey! I wuz gonna say that...


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## Natedogz

Thanks for the replies, LBS Specialized dealer was out of every tire in 25c....wtf? I bought a Continental 700x25c GP4000S and will run it in front and rotate old heavy stock cheap tire to the rear. Next time I will plan ahead and order 25C Specialized Espoir Elite or Turbo Pro for the rear.


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## cxwrench

You mentioned that you _should have_ rotated the tires. NO...you should NOT rotate them. The rear will wear 3-5 times as quickly as the front. You ALWAYS want the tire w/ the best/newest/least damaged tread on the front. When you wear out a rear, move the front to the rear, and replace the front w/ the new tire. Pretty much anyone can control a bike when it gets a rear puncture...the front, not so much. ALWAYS put the new tire on the front and don't ever rotate a partially worn rear to the front.


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## giosblue

cxwrench said:


> You mentioned that you _should have_ rotated the tires. NO...you should NOT rotate them. The rear will wear 3-5 times as quickly as the front. You ALWAYS want the tire w/ the best/newest/least damaged tread on the front. When you wear out a rear, move the front to the rear, and replace the front w/ the new tire. Pretty much anyone can control a bike when it gets a rear puncture...the front, not so much. ALWAYS put the new tire on the front and don't ever rotate a partially worn rear to the front.



+1 On the rotation, BAD idea.

Vittoria Rubino Pro's or Vittoria Zaffiiro Pro are my favourites at the moment and readily available in 25c.


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## LONDON-GUY

I have the Hutchinson fusion 3 on both my bikes and rate them very highly for both grip and wear. I have tried the Michellin Pro3 and 4 they are a good tyre for grip and they roll nice but I have found that do get damaged very easily


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## mjduct

Performance has the Vittoria Cora's 320TPI tires on sale for 55-60 right now you can't beat those for the price. They will wear a little faster but you'll be happy to buy new ones a little more often when you feel the ride quality/speed they give you.


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## Typetwelve

SauronHimself said:


> I'd second the Continental GP 4000S. I've been very pleased with these tires, and I currently own the 700x23c size. In your case you might want to stick with a 25c tire for comfort reasons. Going from 25c to 23c you may notice a rougher ride and then get buyer's remorse. The performance difference, if any, is negligible. I've also been a fan of the Vittoria Rubino Pro 3 tire. It's another great all-around tire that is slightly cheaper than the 4000S. Puncture protection on both is great in my experience, and they roll well.


Bingo...have rode a few tires at this point (including Spesh offerings) and this one hands down rides the best thus far. Super comfortable ride with tons of grip...if it holds out in terms of longevity...I may never try another brand again...


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## Natedogz

Typetwelve said:


> Bingo...have rode a few tires at this point (including Spesh offerings) and this one hands down rides the best thus far. Super comfortable ride with tons of grip...if it holds out in terms of longevity...I may never try another brand again...


You're referring to GP4000S I assume and not the Vittoria Rubino?

What front/rear tire pressures would you all recommend as a starting point considering my weight of 190lbs? 100/110psi F/R or?


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## Len J

I wouldn't put a conti 4000 on my ex wife's bike. 

Medicare ride (if you've ever ridden a good riding tire, you'll understand) , coupled w low durability....what's not to like? 

Michelin Pro4's FTW. Best ride + 2500+ mile durability. 

IME

Len


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## Typetwelve

Natedogz said:


> You're referring to GP4000S I assume and not the Vittoria Rubino?
> 
> What front/rear tire pressures would you all recommend as a starting point considering my weight of 190lbs? 100/110psi F/R or?


Yes, the Conti GP 4000s black chili...I was riding on them last night and still marveling at how well they ride. When I got back into cycling this time last year, I was about 195 lbs and ran 100-110psi...now, at 170...I run 90-100...


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## cxwrench

Len J said:


> I wouldn't put a conti 4000 on my ex wife's bike.
> 
> Medicare ride (if you've ever ridden a good riding tire, you'll understand) , coupled w low durability....what's not to like?
> 
> Michelin Pro4's FTW. Best ride + 2500+ mile durability.
> 
> IME
> 
> Len


You may be the _only _person to think that Michelin Pro4's last longer than Conti GP's. At the same pressure, the Michelin probably rides a little better, but most of the Conti "rides like crap" reputation came from people running them at 120psi.


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## Len J

cxwrench said:


> You may be the _only _person to think that Michelin Pro4's last longer than Conti GP's. At the same pressure, the Michelin probably rides a little better, but most of the Conti "rides like crap" reputation came from people running them at 120psi.


I've ridden them at appropriate pressure, and they ride like Michelin pro4 endurance. 

As to mileage, I've tried them several times and never got more than 1,000 miles before sidewall cuts rendered them useless. Otoh, I've never gotten less than 2,500 miles from pro 3 or pro 4 service course. 

Len


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## pmf

You don't need 700x25 tires if you weigh 190 lbs. You can ride just fine on 700x23. I don't know why everyone on this site is so obsessed with 700x25 (or bigger) tires. 

When the Michelin Pro4 Race tires came out, I bought up a bunch of the Pro3 Race tires at around $30/tire. They're good tires for the money. I like the Continental 4000S tires too. Contis run larger than Michelins. I think a Michelin 25 is the same size as a Conti 23.


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## Typetwelve

pmf said:


> You don't need 700x25 tires if you weigh 190 lbs. You can ride just fine on 700x23. I don't know why everyone on this site is so obsessed with 700x25 (or bigger) tires.
> 
> When the Michelin Pro4 Race tires came out, I bought up a bunch of the Pro3 Race tires at around $30/tire. They're good tires for the money. I like the Continental 4000S tires too. Contis run larger than Michelins. I think a Michelin 25 is the same size as a Conti 23.


I wish I had the time/$$ to really do an apples-to-apples comp. I rode on 25mm last year (not by choice, they were on the Roubaix I was borrowing). Now, I ride 23mm....on a 23mm wheel. 

For some reason...I don't buy the thought that a measly 2mm will make that big of a difference if looking at identical tires but in 23-vs-25. Coming from a strong background in automobiles...I can tell you that the difference between a 195 tire and a 215 tire isn't much. You don't really see a difference unless you compare different brands/models.

People just pooping out the comment of "x width is better than x width" is silliness. The make/build of the tire and the wheel have much more to do with ride/handling quality than simply adding or subtracting 2mm of width.


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## Natedogz

I returned the Conti GP4000S, I don't race and $75 is too much for a tire, riding friend also said several of his buddies had cut the sidewall/carcass very badly on almost new Continental tires, so I bought a Specialized. 

Espoir Elite 700x25...$35
Casing: 60 TPI
Bead: Foldable
Center Compound: 70a / Shoulder Compound: 60a Compound: 70a for 700 x 25
Flat Protection: BlackBelt X 2
psi 110-125; approx. weight 270g

Moved old stock front tire to rear and installed new on front. Inflated tires to 90/100psi F/R and went for a quick 20 mile ride on a local twisty ride with some ups and downs. Great tire so far and only $35. On a side note, what is with LBS that sell above MSRP? They had it marked $40 and when I told them MSRP is $35, they were like uh ok we'll do that. The local snobby bike shop (different store than where I bought tire) regularly prices stuff at 15 to 20% above MSRP, my friends and I hardly buy anything there unless it's must have right now lol.


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## Natedogz

Measured tires mounted and inflated to 100psi on my stock Shimano WH-R500 (20.8mm rim width as per Shimano Product ), the stock Espoir Sport is 1.07" wide, Espoir Elite is 1.003" wide.


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## Camilo

Natedogz said:


> Thanks for the replies, LBS Specialized dealer was out of every tire in 25c....wtf? I bought a Continental 700x25c GP4000S and will run it in front and rotate old heavy stock cheap tire to the rear. Next time I will plan ahead and order 25C Specialized Espoir Elite or Turbo Pro for the rear.


Life is way too short to run a crappy tire down to the nub. Buy another new Conti and replace the old one. Like someone said earlier, good tires are a tremendous "upgrade" in feel, performance and weight.


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