# Aluminum or Carbon? What to do?



## Hottody (Mar 31, 2012)

Been considering a new road bike, I'm a beginner, and I like the trek 2011 2.3 because it has a solid 105 grouping throughout and a much better than average wheel set. It's also sold across the street by my LBS! This is a aluminum H2 bike on sale for about $1,200 if I buy the trek/Jax protection plan for an additional $130 bucks. The 2012 version sells for about 1,425 and is also a consideration! 

My other option is a new 2011 Fuji SL-1-Comp Limited Edition Road Bike with a carbon frame for about $1,399. This bike is sold at a shop about 20 miles away and has a basic 105 grouping with a mix of other decent components. 

I have also seen a new 2010/11 Kestrel Talon Carbon Road Bike Shimano 105 for around $1,400 that has a full retail of $2,400. This is a sexy bike that was a 2010 Cycling Magazine Best value bike. 

What to do? Any advise from those of you that have more experience and or knowledge? Comfort and quality is most important to me.


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## Hooben (Aug 22, 2004)

There are probably going to be two opinions here. First is the fact that you're a beginner. This mentality says that you should stick with aluminum, learn a bit...then move on if need be. 
The second view has to do with the properties of carbon being very forgiving. Carbon has a tremendously comfortable ride quality that aluminum cannot match. 
Ultimately the choice is yours. You are right in thinking about 105. It's a great grouppo.
Good Luck.


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## veloci1 (Nov 29, 2005)

i'd recommend a Cannondale CAAD10 with 105. the CAAD10 rides like many carbon bikes without the stiff price and concerns of carbon frames. as a beginner or intermediate rider, nothing beats the CAAD10.

check it out, ride it and compare.

just my .2 cents


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## Scott in MD (Jun 24, 2008)

Carbon is better - period.


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## Longhair-NL (Mar 31, 2012)

Ride all of your choices and let your body, not mind, make the final decision.


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## svard75 (Jun 10, 2011)

Hottody said:


> Been considering a new road bike, I'm a beginner, and I like the trek 2011 2.3 because it has a solid 105 grouping throughout and a much better than average wheel set. It's also sold across the street by my LBS! This is a aluminum H2 bike on sale for about $1,200 if I buy the trek/Jacks protection plan for an additional $130 bucks. The 2012 version sells for about 1,425 and is also a consideration!
> 
> My other option is a new 2011 Fuji SL-1-Comp Limited Edition Road Bike with a carbon frame for about $1,399. This bike is sold at a shop about 20 miles away and has a basic 105 grouping with a mix of other decent components.
> 
> ...


You have a bike shop across the street from you?! Man I wish I did. On the other hand maybe not, I'd be broke.

You might want to rethink the type of bike you're getting if you want comfort. Never understood those asking for a comfortable race bike. I mean you can make certain adjustments to make your brain think it's comfortable. If you want comfort look for a belt driven hybrid 

However if you must have a fast bike IMO Buy the heavier of the two, build your legs, endurance and stamina then treat yourself to a nice carbon if you're liking it and still into it. Save the couple of hundred plus the hassle of driving it 30 miles for repairs.


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## tihsepa (Nov 27, 2008)

Scott in MD said:


> Carbon is better than nothing - period question mark.


Fixed for you

The CAAD sugestion is validbut he is or was not shoping cannondale.

The Trek will serve you fine. Make sure you get what you want so you enjoy it and will ride it. Above all, make sure it fits right.


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## torch511 (Mar 4, 2012)

This will probably not be helpful, but I don't think you would be unhappy with any of your selections. Really, as has been suggested, you need to ride the bikes and go by feel.

And I second the idea of being better off NOT having a bike shop across the street. I too would go broke. I have one 5 miles down the road and I go broke enough.


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## looigi (Nov 24, 2010)

Test riding and going by feel is good, but after 40 years of riding I still find it difficult to quantify the differences. I have high quality aluminum, Ti, and carbon bikes. They're perceptibly different in ride and handling from each other but I like them all. If I had to choose between them, I'd choose the newest and snazziest, which happens to be the carbon bike. All of the bikes you mention will perform very well. If a shop sells you the bike, they will typically do a fitting and the initial break-in service for free. If you need those services, that's an argument for buying local. Other than that, get the bike you think is the snazziest and most motivating to ride.


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## tlg (May 11, 2011)

Scott in MD said:


> Carbon is better - period.


 Unless you're a beginner who falls over/crashes often getting use to his new bike. 
Carbon fiber is not better at handling dings, scratches, impacts, etc.


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## Hottody (Mar 31, 2012)

Thank you looigi. Good advise! When taking test rides I too have a difficult noticing the difference in ride quality. I then wonder if carbon will show it's performance characteristics after a few months of experience! I do know that all these bikes feel good. It is true, even as a beginner, one gets sucked Into all the details involved in making an informed decision.


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## Richard (Feb 17, 2006)

Good aluminum (e.g. Cannondale CAAD 10) is better than cheap carbon. At any given price point, you'll generally get a better component spec with alu vs. carbon. But (given enough mileage) components are what wears out. I'd rather put lesser components on a good frame than top-of-the-line stuff on a lesser frame. You'll pretty much be just as fast on a 105 or Apex specced bike as the same frame with DuraAce or Red.

Bottom line though is fit.


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## Wharfrat03 (Feb 14, 2012)

*Hmmm*

I have a full carbon scattante that I got for super cheap, and it's super light. I also have a fuji roubaix pro that is alum with carbon seat stays and fork. I'm fairly new to roadbikes as well, and honestly I like the fuj:idea:I better. It handles better for me. I also have a steel centurion that is freaking awesome. To be honest with you, I think it depends on the rider, not the bike. But what do I know, I'm a rookie.


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## Wharfrat03 (Feb 14, 2012)

Awesome.


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## hoblxblood (Apr 5, 2012)

aluminum frames will fatigue over time and not feel the same as when you first bought it
. Instead of spending 2000bucks every 3-5years for a new aluminum bike, buy a carbon which will last forever, and upgrade it. 

carbon - last longer, stronger, 2x more comfortable, light, good looking. Why do the pros use carbone?cause its the new, and better technology. CAAD is nice but look at their new top line models.... all carbon


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## tlg (May 11, 2011)

hoblxblood said:


> Instead of spending 2000bucks every 3-5years for a new aluminum bike, buy a carbon which will last forever, and upgrade it.


That's a bunch of phooey. New aluminum bike every 3-5yrs? Absurd. Aluminum doesn't just magically go bad in a finite ammount of time.
I wonder why thousands of aluminum aircraft, which are decades old, are flying over our heads every day and not falling out of the sky?  Planes see far more faigue than bikes ever do. As well as the aluminum engine in my 6yro car. Is it time to scrap my car?

Carbon fiber, and the epoxies use to bond the fibers do NOT have an endurance limit. Thus, just like aluminum, they will not last forever.


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## Bosock (Apr 1, 2012)

I would recommend a 105/Apex equipped carbon frame as well. The entry level Tarmacs/Roubaixs/CR1 are trickle down tech and pretty good bikes. I would also shop for last years model to get the best deal as this is your first bike. Now this is based on just how much you plan on biking. My daughter learned the hard way and bought whatever would get her by, a decent aluminum frame, and a year later wanted the lightweight and stiffness of the carbon bike for more aggressive riding...so she sold her aluminum and went with a Specialized Roubaix. If it is something you believe you will get into get a bike you can grow into...CR1, certain Trek Models, Felt, Specialized, all brands make a decent bike...which one do you fit into the most and are most comfortable with and can get the best deal on....if you like your local bike shop support them as that is key to my biking purchases as well...several shops out there friends have experienced will sell and forget....good luck and whatever bike you get...if you ride it tons...you scored.


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## Ashe (Apr 4, 2012)

Its been said already but I will say it again. Test out each if you can and let your body decide. They ride very differently from each other and you may find you have a preference. I am actually in the process of switching to carbon as well, so have fun!


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## bruin11 (May 21, 2004)

hoblxblood said:


> carbon - last longer, stronger, 2x more comfortable, light, good looking. Why do the pros use carbone?cause its the new, and better technology. CAAD is nice but look at their new top line models.... all carbon


Wrong. Pro's ride what they are paid to ride.


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## patsulli (Apr 3, 2012)

Im with Svard go with the aluminum trek frame. build up your legs and when you put some serious miles in and know what you like and dont like in a bike you'll be able to have a better reference in a few years when you think its time to upgrade. as a beginner you really dont have much in appreciation for carbon and it will be a costly upkeep if like tlg said you take a digger or let her get scratched up. Also after a few thousand miles carbon bikes are subject to crack. for your first frame I'd say go aluminum and beat it up on long rides and learn what you as the rider would want in your next bike.
-Patrick


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## Peanya (Jun 12, 2008)

Ashe has great advice. To those saying carbon is more comfortable, that's generally true, but not always. My 2011 carbon BMC has the same ride quality as my 2009 aluminum BMC. My older Trek 2100 carbon main triangle with aluminum everything else has a considerably more comfortable ride.


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## svard75 (Jun 10, 2011)

patsulli said:


> Im with Svard go with the aluminum trek frame. build up your legs and when you put some serious miles in and know what you like and dont like in a bike you'll be able to have a better reference in a few years when you think its time to upgrade. as a beginner you really dont have much in appreciation for carbon and it will be a costly upkeep if like tlg said you take a digger or let her get scratched up. *Also after a few thousand miles carbon bikes are subject to crack.* for your first frame I'd say go aluminum and beat it up on long rides and learn what you as the rider would want in your next bike.
> -Patrick


Carbon could crack regardless of the mileage if you hit it in the right spot. The notion of carbon frames cracking over time is based off of issues earlier carbon frames faced. They used a different resin which would deteriorate over time due to the sunlight, temperatures (Elements), they would even eventually discolour and or delaminate. The layup process was not as accurate so there were plenty of air pockets thru out leading to weak spots. Newer carbon tube technology along with newer resins have UV protection built right in and they are much more resilient. I would however agree that a carbon frame has different weak points in it's construction and during many falls (Hitting the same spots) could lead to a complete fracture of the resin which creates creaking and eventual failure. It takes a significant more amount of falls to fracture aluminum if the welds were done properly. My original post around why aluminum over carbon was to save the extra money plus the distance to get the bike adjusted or serviced via the warranty. Also people that used to ride and enjoy road riding in their early years think they still will, however with age comes the inevitable pains and aches and many steer away quickly especially with today's pot hole riddled roads. Less initial cost=less regrets for buying. *Don't forget to ask whatever bike shop you go with for a try before you buy program too.*


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## easyridernyc (Jan 10, 2008)

Hottody said:


> Been considering a new road bike, I'm a beginner, and I like the trek 2011 2.3 because it has a solid 105 grouping throughout and a much better than average wheel set. It's also sold across the street by my LBS! This is a aluminum H2 bike on sale for about $1,200 if I buy the trek/Jax protection plan for an additional $130 bucks. The 2012 version sells for about 1,425 and is also a consideration!
> 
> My other option is a new 2011 Fuji SL-1-Comp Limited Edition Road Bike with a carbon frame for about $1,399. This bike is sold at a shop about 20 miles away and has a basic 105 grouping with a mix of other decent components.
> 
> ...



the kestrel is kind of an obvious steal, although it might be a bit aero, i think it even has tri bars standard....

not so sure about those trek wheels, boonties do not have the best rep. i think the 2.3 is otherwise nice spec tho

money talks a lot in this range...1400 might get a basic carbon layup, but nice alu with 105 spec. you thought about specialized at all?


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## terbennett (Apr 1, 2006)

hoblxblood said:


> aluminum frames will fatigue over time and not feel the same as when you first bought it
> . Instead of spending 2000bucks every 3-5years for a new aluminum bike, buy a carbon which will last forever, and upgrade it.
> 
> carbon - last longer, stronger, 2x more comfortable, light, good looking. Why do the pros use carbone?cause its the new, and better technology. CAAD is nice but look at their new top line models.... all carbon


I see another person sold on marketing. Carbon bikes cost more not because they are better, but because they cost more to manufacture. A carbon frame will easily cost 3x4 times as much to build as an aluminum frame and with good reason. Aluminum is inexpensive due to it being the most abundant element on the planet. The aircraft comment made by another poster was impressive because the exact same grade aluminum used in aircrafts is used in bike frames. Carbon plane parts are not even the same compound used in carbon bikes. Plane: carbon/carbon; Bike: carbon/plastic. More comfortable? A carbon bike should ride more comfortably due to manufacturers adorning it with higher end components and wheels. If carbon is so much stronger, Why do you void your warranty if you pull a trailer on your carbon bike? For aluminum's "short life", there are quite a few fully loaded touring bikes crossing the country that are made of aluminum. Carbon couldn't handle that application or builders would be making a lot of them. If a carbon bike could be made strong enough to handle touring, it would weigh as much (if not more) than a steel framed tourer. Also, pros ride what they are paid to ride (like the other poster said). I own two carbon bikes but I'd be a fool to say that carbon is better. A CAAD 10 will not only run circles around a most carbon bikes, but it will do it with a fairly equal ride. One of my riding buddies owns a CAAD10 and just bought a Super Six. He said that the rides are identical and he has Zipp 404 F/C wheels on both. You want to ride a bike that will beat the crap out of you? Ride my 2009 Felt F1 Sprint. It's full carbon and that bike has an unforgiving ride.


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## Quattro_Assi_07 (Jan 13, 2006)

hoblxblood said:


> aluminum frames will fatigue over time and not feel the same as when you first bought it
> . Instead of spending 2000bucks every 3-5years for a new aluminum bike, buy a carbon which will last forever, and upgrade it.
> 
> carbon - last longer, stronger, 2x more comfortable, light, good looking. Why do the pros use carbone?cause its the new, and better technology. CAAD is nice but look at their new top line models.... all carbon


You super funny guy! Ha ha ha


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## Jay Strongbow (May 8, 2010)

If 'comfort and quality is most important' should at least consider steel.

Get the bike that's in your budget, feels good and fits. I wouldn't worry much about what it's made of. I know seeing bike nerds splitting hairs over different materials on the intrawebs can get confusing but it's mostly BS that matters on the net but not the road. A bike either feels good or it doesn't regarless of what it's made of. Even then that's about 75% (or whatever %) tires assuming they fit the same.


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## nickl75 (May 5, 2010)

terbennett said:


> If carbon is so much stronger, Why do you void your warranty if you pull a trailer on your carbon bike? For aluminum's "short life", there are quite a few fully loaded touring bikes crossing the country that are made of aluminum. Carbon couldn't handle that application or builders would be making a lot of them. If a carbon bike could be made strong enough to handle touring, it would weigh as much (if not more) than a steel framed tourer.


To address this point:

Carbon is very strong for the stresses it is designed for. Pulling a trailer puts stress in directions the frame hasn't been designed to absorb.

It would be simple to design a touring bike that could pull a trailer and would be stronger & lighter than a steel bike. The reason one hasn't is because of market size, not because of strength.


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## Benjamin Less (Apr 9, 2012)

Hottody said:


> What to do? Any advise from those of you that have more experience and or knowledge? Comfort and quality is most important to me.


No matter what bicycle you decide on, the key factor will be correct fitment. You could be picking a $5,000 titanium frame bicycle with all the bells and whistles, but if the seat is wrong and the stem length incorrect and frame not the proper sizing ...you've bought an expensive and uncomfortable ride.

I would say that no matter what you buy get a sizing. Have your seat bones measured correctly. Have someone with knowledge set-up the proper cranks length and knee position with the correct reach over the bars. From there, and only there can you determine anything else. If you have a favourite saddle, bring it with you and mount it on the test bikes. The more information you provide to a LBS on what fits presently can only assist that final buying decision. I've seen too many times cyclist completely set up incorrectly on their expensive bikes result in pain and discomfort only to justify it was expensive or *better* "specs wise" than the "other" choices made during the buying decision. 

Good luck.


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## Hottody (Mar 31, 2012)

Benjamin - That is some of the best advise that I have received! I think no matter what bike I go with a proper fitting will be key to a good relationship with my purchase!


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## hoblxblood (Apr 5, 2012)

k, well i see a bunch of carbon haters in here that, 1. cant afford carbon so try to back up ther aluminum. 2. dont know what ther talking bout. 

about the planes.. do you know how often they replace aluminum parts on planes? google it. Same applies to carbon, but the fact of the matter is to all you brainless ppl.
1. carbon has higher strenght to weight ratio than alu. 
2. carbon does not fatigue. alu has a fatige life., as does ALL metals. 

When compared to steel and aluminum, composites have superior mechanical properties, including higher specific strength (the strength rating divided by the density factor) and higher specific stiffness (stiffness rating divided by the density factor).
Composite materials deliver greater strength than various grades of aluminum, and equivalent strength to steel. In addition, composites’ strength can be improved, depending on the materials, fiber orientation (bi-directional or unidirectional), and various fiber lay-up angles that are used. Carbon fiber composites (as well as other hybrid composites) with high specific strengths can handle and carry very high loads.
For industrial and recreational projects and components, composites will outperform metals, offering more durability in any sort of harsh and corrosive environment. Composites’ strength and stiffness properties are also superior to aluminum and steel, and can be formed, machined and fabricated into practically any shape, putting more stress on certain areas of the bike reinforced to counter the stress.


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## Turbo_5 (Mar 31, 2012)

Sizing, fit, and function are your first concerns.

Since it's your first, may I suggest skipping the "new" bike option and find a nice used road bike, maybe in the $500-800 range? It will still be more than capable for what you, as a new rider still trying out the sport, will need in the first few years of riding. 

Additionally, be "brand" and "material" blind. Who honeslty cares WHAT you ride? Just find something that works for you and don't worry about the impression management factor. Get out and enjoy it! Good luck with your search...


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## tlg (May 11, 2011)

hoblxblood said:


> k, well i see a bunch of carbon haters in here that, 1. cant afford carbon so try to back up ther aluminum. 2. dont know what ther talking bout.
> 
> about the planes.. do you know how often they replace aluminum parts on planes? google it. Same applies to carbon, but the fact of the matter is to all you brainless ppl.
> 1. carbon has higher strenght to weight ratio than alu.
> 2. carbon does not fatigue. alu has a fatige life., as does ALL metals.


I'm not a carbon hater. I love it. I design products with it. And I ride a carbon fiber bike. 
However, you are incorrect, but I won't insult you as you chose to do.

Carbon fiber HAS a fatigue life. ALL metals do not have a fatigue life. Steel does not have a fatigue life. Aluminum does.
Fatigue life evaluation for carbon epoxy laminate composites under













> When compared to steel and aluminum, composites have superior mechanical properties, including higher specific strength (the strength rating divided by the density factor) and higher specific stiffness (stiffness rating divided by the density factor).


Except impact strength. Carbon fiber is far inferior.


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## Zombie John (Jul 25, 2011)

Synapse Carbon 6 Apex. Woot.

It was my first road bike and it's been great. I've crashed it twice -- being a dumbass. I had one scratch on the frame after my last fall (turning into a gravel driveway) and toothpaste got it out.

I'm actually very confident with carbon and Apex is awesome (for me).

I paid $1600 for mine.

I don't know how carbon compares to AL as far as ride quality but I can tell you I love my bike and it's been solid so far.


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## Third Son (Sep 15, 2011)

*If it was me.....*

I would start out with a good used bike...there are several really good buys out there if you look. I see a lot of pretty decent road bikes (scott, cannondale, trek,) on CL and ebay for around $500-800. the nice thing about CL is you can actually ride the bike before you buy it. I bought this cannondale off of ebay for $250 a few weeks ago. I invested another $100. I think it is a 1995 (haven't checked yet). I am riding the hell out of it and loving it!

Canonndale 2.8
56mm frame size
Dura-Ace front and STI rear derailleur, MF-7400 7 speed freewheel
Shimano 7 speed STI brake/ shifter
Shimano 600 crank
Ambrosio Elite wheels with Campy hubs
Velo-orange stem adapter and stem
Carbon fork (not sure of manufacturer)
Shimano 600 brakes and headset
Vittorio Rubino 700 x 28 tires


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## Turbo_5 (Mar 31, 2012)

Third Son - THAT was what I was talking about! 

I still have, ride, and enjoy a 1988 Cannondale R600 with full 105 gruppo...except in those days "105 gruppo" meant everything...down to the hubs, brakes, levers etc. Not just the front & rear derailuer and STI levers as on my Cervelo. Although the Cervelo is Ultegra, not 105 but certainly not "complete gruppo Ultegra."

Truth is, you could ride that Cannondale for decades...and I prefer riding a bike, not dreaming about spending more money...


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## Third Son (Sep 15, 2011)

Thanks Turbo...I have been riding for a long long time. I also get bikes to ride them...maybe for my retirement present (wish) I will buy something "elite" but for now this is one of 4 bikes I use to commute with and ride on weekends. I am just now starting to get ahead financially after putting 4 kids through college on one income :thumbsup: Hopefully something like a Cervelo is in my future:aureola: I would love to see a pic of yours!

I love seeing pics of other folks' bikes...this is a great forum for that!


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## Turbo_5 (Mar 31, 2012)

ThirdSon - thanks, will put it up soon. It's aluminum with carbon fork & seat post. I can just say I'm thankful for it and truly enjoy the ride! 

Thank You for hepling put your kids through college! It's great to see that and I can't wait to be a father someday. 

Here's the Cervelo, will upload the Cannondale when I get a chance:


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## Third Son (Sep 15, 2011)

*Awesome bike!*

Thanks for posting it. It looks kind of lonely...


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## tribe3 (Apr 13, 2012)

carbon is better, but if it fractures u will have to get a completely new frame which is very expensive


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## tlg (May 11, 2011)

tribe3 said:


> carbon is better, *but if it fractures u will have to get a completely new frame which is very expensive*


So what you're saying is it's not better. 
"better" is very subjective.


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## ultraman6970 (Aug 1, 2010)

Not going to say one is better than the other one because it depends of how the frame was built, tubing profile and sections and other stuff.

Have a derosa aluminum/carbon bike that rides like carbon.

My BMC aluminum/carbon was not as stiff as my old ridley aluminum.

My BMC carbon is plenty stiff, more than the de rosa.

So pretty much depends of many factors or for example the caad wouldhave been discontinued long time ago because everybody wants carbon now.

Good luck.,


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## masivemunkey (Oct 24, 2011)

The only way to decide is to try both bikes and get the one that you like best. I personally had my heart set on a CAAD10 and tried a few, but didn't like the ride. I tested a Tarmac (carbon) for fun and loved the feel and ended up buying one. 

Although it's become a trend on this board to recommend the CAAD10 and other aluminum bikes, it really wasn't the best bike for me. The aluminum Trek might not be the best for you either (or the Fuji Carbon for that matter), try try try before you buy and get fitted!


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## CHRIS217 (Jan 10, 2010)

ditto several commenet previoiuslty raised

definately worth test riding few bikes if you can and a cheap stiff carbon frame can rattle you around more than a decent Alu fram so while i personally would say Carbon = comfort my caviat is be sure to ride a get a feel first


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## Benjamin Less (Apr 9, 2012)

Third Son, really nice find. That's an extremely comfortable frame set. Do you see the distance between the seat tube and rear tire? Comfort *plus* very capable race geometry.









Turbo 5 ever think about flipping that stem level? Carbon definitely has a great road comfort incorporated into it. Nice bike!


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## Turbo_5 (Mar 31, 2012)

Benjamin - thanks for the comment. I haven't tried any fit/form/function changes yet, just added the water bottle cage, mirror and wireless computer. Was a little dissapointed the shop I purchased it from didn't go through a full "FIT" test. Looking into doing that locally, bike was purchased in the town my family lives in about 2 hours away. No other issues with that shop or the bike itself.

Looking forward to putting many miles on it!


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## tbachorski (Apr 15, 2012)

I like what Terbennett and Looigi had to say, it is completely up to what you prefer to ride, set out the bikes and see what you like. I have also been looking at the Fuji and Kestrel you are looking at, let us know what you end up picking.


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## wim (Feb 28, 2005)

Hottody said:


> This is a aluminum H2 bike on sale for about $1,200 if I buy the trek/Jax protection plan for an additional $130 bucks.


Not sure what exactly a trek/Jax protection plan is, but read the fine print carefully. Some of these plans are little more than a device to tie you to the shop that sold you the bike. The sale price being good only if you buy the plan doesn't sound so good, but who knows.


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## Nhat Huy (Apr 15, 2012)

I prefer an aluminum frame with carbon seat stays and fork. I used to ride a Litespeed Atlas and felt good with that horse.


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## MS150Rider66 (Apr 30, 2009)

Turbo_5 is correct on his point of view. I have a favorite LBS that I go for everything (just about) even bought a new bike KHS Xcape which is cromo flatbar, got a scratch on it. Only cost me 379.00 and was pretty much very upset about the scratch. Imagine 5000.00 ?I would flip lol. I gave it to my son and fixed up my 1086 Schwinn Tempo with Columbus Tenax steel and boy is it fast and forgiving on the cobblestone streets we have in Orlando. Now I have on lay-away a FUJI Newest 3.0 2010 model which to me had barely any use from first owner .On sale with tax and pawn fee of 438.00 and is aluminum with Carbon fork. True it has cheapest parts but very up-gradeable if I choose. It could be something to think about where to buy. I suggest stay away from buying a so called protection plan.Those are money ripoffs.IMO.


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## terbennett (Apr 1, 2006)

hoblxblood said:


> k, well i see a bunch of carbon haters in here that, 1. cant afford carbon so try to back up ther aluminum. 2. dont know what ther talking bout.
> 
> about the planes.. do you know how often they replace aluminum parts on planes? google it. Same applies to carbon, but the fact of the matter is to all you brainless ppl.
> 1. carbon has higher strenght to weight ratio than alu.
> ...


Sure, call me a carbon hater. I own a carbon bike and an aluminum one. I'm just not trying to just my purchase as the best purchase just because it was my decision to buy it, like aluminum haters such as yourself. My current carbon bike was just a hair under $8,000. I think at that level, I have the right to say this. It's not my first and I love my carbon bikes as much as my aluminum ones. Judging by the majority of these threads, the Hater-Aid keeps flowing from the carbon camp.Most of those people talking trash about aluminum have never ridden a high end aluminum bike like a Specialized SWorks E5, Giant TCR (pre-carbon model). Glad to see people defending aluminum. It's a great material. I only bring up carbon's shortcomings when people (such as yourself) start spewing your "sold on marketing" opinions. Aluminum, steel, and Ti are great materials. Carbon isn't the answer to it all.


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## terbennett (Apr 1, 2006)

nickl75 said:


> To address this point:
> 
> Carbon is very strong for the stresses it is designed for. Pulling a trailer puts stress in directions the frame hasn't been designed to absorb.
> 
> It would be simple to design a touring bike that could pull a trailer and would be stronger & lighter than a steel bike. The reason one hasn't is because of market size, not because of strength.


Actually, there is no market due to the durability factor for that application. Carbon doesn't handle scratches and impact very well in most instances. Failure has a greater chance of occuring with touring due to the abuse a touring bike will take. Carbon is not the material most people want to be on if their frame fails. Look at how carbon fails when it does and is understandable why there is no market for it. Also, it has to be designed to pull a kid's trailer? I used to pull my son's Burley D'Lite with my Specialized S-Works E5. It was top of the line back in the day and it didn't void my warranty. there's a reason carbon is made the way it is. Sure it's light, but it's not designe dtomake a bike multi purpose. Sounds like a short cut in build to make more money.


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## qwksti (May 18, 2012)

good thread, lots of good info and replies here.


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## the_don (Mar 23, 2008)

I 23rd the 2011 Trek option, 

Cheaper, full 105 groupset plus insurance and the shop is opposite your home! Doesn't sound any better for someone buying a first road bike.


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## duff man (Jan 19, 2008)

terbennett said:


> Aluminum is inexpensive due to it being the most abundant element on the planet.


I just had to comment on this as I get a big kick out of it. Aluminum, the most common abundant element on the planet? I guess if you ignore those pesky elements like iron, oxygen, silicon and a few others that are all more abundant then yes aluminum is the most abundant element on the planet.......


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## tlg (May 11, 2011)

duff man said:


> I just had to comment on this as I get a big kick out of it. Aluminum, the most common abundant element on the planet? I guess if you ignore those pesky elements like iron, oxygen, silicon and a few others that are all more abundant then yes aluminum is the most abundant element on the planet.......


The mass of the Earth is approximately 5.98×10^24 kg. It is composed mostly of iron (32.1%), oxygen (30.1%), silicon (15.1%), magnesium (13.9%), sulfur (2.9%), nickel (1.8%), calcium (1.5%), and *aluminium (1.4%); *with the remaining 1.2% consisting of trace amounts of other elements.

Yup... 1.4% > 32.1%. :thumbsup:

Aluminium is the third most abundant element (after oxygen and silicon), and the most abundant metal, in the *Earth's crust*.


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## the_don (Mar 23, 2008)

But Aluminium is the most abundant metal in the earth's crust, which is what terbennett most likely meant!

Abundance of elements in Earth's crust - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Yes, the core is mostly iron, but I haven't seen anyone even reach the mantle.


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## LC (Jan 28, 2004)

I have multiple frames made from every material possible (except wood.) I like them all. The differences in feel are more a matter of how they are set up with bar height and tire width then the material they are made from.


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## brazilianbreeze (Apr 14, 2010)

I have ridden all materials and think they are all good in different scenarios. I like carbon for Climbing, the steel bike I rode was very smooth but heavier naturally. Aluminum is a cost effective rout to take I guess.


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## David Loving (Jun 13, 2008)

You'll never regret getting a carbon bike.


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## alien too (Jul 20, 2010)

Whats the best riding aluminum frame?


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## naparider (Jul 14, 2012)

Back on the subject of which bike to buy...I just got back into cycling last summer. I bought a used road bike off Craigslist. It was originally about a $1500 bike that I bought for $600. Aluminum frame, carbon fork, Shimano Tiagra triple, 27 speed. It has served me well for a year and now I'm looking to upgrade. My budget is about $2000-2500 so I'm looking at full carbon fiber with 105 or SRAM apex, possibly Rival components. Until you've logged some miles you really won't know what you want in a bike. Get something now that fits and you can ride. You may end up upgrading some parts- seat, pedals, tires, etc. At the price point you're looking at you might be able to find a carbon frame but chances are you will get lower end components. You might be better served to get the aluminum frame and better level of components. The other argument is that if you get the best frame that you can afford you can always upgrade the components later but I think until you log some miles you won't really know what you want. I know I want a lighter bike. I live in an area with some good climbs. I also want a compact double vs. a triple. I'm in my mid-40's so I also want a more relaxed geometry bike that I can ride for 3-4 hours at a time and be more comfortable.


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## kaliayev (Dec 25, 2008)

David Loving said:


> You'll never regret getting a carbon bike.


I did both times.


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## terbennett (Apr 1, 2006)

the_don said:


> But Aluminium is the most abundant metal in the earth's crust, which is what terbennett most likely meant!
> 
> Abundance of elements in Earth's crust - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
> 
> Yes, the core is mostly iron, but I haven't seen anyone even reach the mantle.


Thank you. that is exactly what I meant.


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## easyridernyc (Jan 10, 2008)

naparider said:


> Back on the subject of which bike to buy...I just got back into cycling last summer. I bought a used road bike off Craigslist. It was originally about a $1500 bike that I bought for $600. Aluminum frame, carbon fork, Shimano Tiagra triple, 27 speed. It has served me well for a year and now I'm looking to upgrade. My budget is about $2000-2500 so I'm looking at full carbon fiber with 105 or SRAM apex, possibly Rival components. Until you've logged some miles you really won't know what you want in a bike. Get something now that fits and you can ride. You may end up upgrading some parts- seat, pedals, tires, etc. At the price point you're looking at you might be able to find a carbon frame but chances are you will get lower end components. You might be better served to get the aluminum frame and better level of components. The other argument is that if you get the best frame that you can afford you can always upgrade the components later but I think until you log some miles you won't really know what you want. I know I want a lighter bike. I live in an area with some good climbs. I also want a compact double vs. a triple. I'm in my mid-40's so I also want a more relaxed geometry bike that I can ride for 3-4 hours at a time and be more comfortable.


two words.

specialized roubaix.

end of conversation, basically. '012 models for 2000 bucks, effin LARCENY for spesh..


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## Maximus_XXIV (Nov 10, 2008)

tribe3 said:


> carbon is better, but if it fractures u will have to get a completely new frame which is very expensive


What happens if the aluminum bike fractures? No need for a completely new frame?


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## aclinjury (Sep 12, 2011)

alien too said:


> Whats the best riding aluminum frame?


Cyfac Nerv. The front tri is aluminum. Fork and rear tri (seat + chain stays) are T700 carbon.
Best of both world (aluminum stiffness and somewhere compliant)


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## wblas3271 (May 12, 2012)

Maximus_XXIV said:


> What happens if the aluminum bike fractures? No need for a completely new frame?


If an aluminum frame breaks then it turns into 30 gold coins. I thought everybody knew that.


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## Bill Bikie (Jul 24, 2010)

*Fit and aesthetics*

Providing the bike fits, choose one you like to look at when it's leaning against the wall in your home.


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## keppler (May 25, 2007)

Don't waste your money on aluminum unless you need an affordable bike you will only race. 

And don't believe that because you're a beginner that you have to 'suffer' or build up to appreciating carbon. And certainly don't believe anyone that says that fit is more important than material. Both are important. I fit perfectly on my bikes, one still rattles my fillings, the other I can ride for days.

I have both alu and carbon bikes, I've done my best to make the alu as comfortable as possible, but it still does not compare to how comfortable the carbon one is. I've relegated the alu one to intervals and short rides on smooth roads. 

Now if you have the time (and if the cost is similar), seek out custom steel frame builders. If you want an amazing ride that will last you years (and is only slightly heavier), go for steel. Find builders, ask a lot of questions, and see where it takes you.


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## Bill Bikie (Jul 24, 2010)

There is nothing wrong with an aluminum frame. Ulrich and Pantani were riding hydro/carbon aluminum Bianchis 12 years ago. I love the performance of my carbon Pinarello bike, but I ride it a lot slower than my aluminum Bianchi when going over rough surfaces.

I would wait on a custom steel frame until you gain more experience and really dial in your riding position. I believe a custom made, basic steel frame in one color will cost you $2500 minimum.

You could get an aluminum bike now, and carbon later. Every cyclist should have at least two bikes.


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## Bill Bikie (Jul 24, 2010)

hoblxblood said:


> aluminum frames will fatigue over time and not feel the same as when you first bought it
> . Instead of spending 2000bucks every 3-5years for a new aluminum bike, buy a carbon which will last forever, and upgrade it.
> 
> carbon - last longer, stronger, 2x more comfortable, light, good looking. Why do the pros use carbone?cause its the new, and better technology. CAAD is nice but look at their new top line models.... all carbon


I had a Gary Klein aluminum Quantum for over 25 years and loved til the day I sold it. Any changes in ride and flex etc. are going to be very gradual and impercetible to most riders. I wouldn't worry about an aluminum frame wearing out. And if you hammer on a steel frame, yes it will break eventually. But it won't happen your lifetime. Buy what tickles your jib.


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## Bill Bikie (Jul 24, 2010)

tihsepa said:


> Fixed for you
> 
> The CAAD sugestion is validbut he is or was not shoping cannondale.
> 
> The Trek will serve you fine. Make sure you get what you want so you enjoy it and will ride it. Above all, make sure it fits right.


Trek is a great product, but they're everywhere and soooo oridinary. Do you really want to show up for a group ride and discover 25 riders on a Trek or Canondale just like yours?

Check out a shop that supports a team. You may find a used Scott, Focus, Ridley, Bianchi or Pinarello etc. a competor is selling because he upgraded. 

And don't rule out aluminum!


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## Bill Bikie (Jul 24, 2010)

*How valid is a test ride, really?*

A bike shop should be willing to work with you and make some adjustments on bikes you're interested in, or the tests won't be valid. Proper stem height and length, bar angle, seat height and for and aft position are important. 

One way to start is to put you and your current bike on a trainer, maybe you could use some adjustments there first. You'll want both bikes to match as close as possible.

My shop works with me to make sure I'm a happy customer. If I want a different stem and it costs more than what I have, I pay the difference.

This may be a good time to get a professional fitting and get off on the right foot or pedal, or whatever. You get the point.

Bring your own pedals and shoes for a fitting and test ride.


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## Bill Bikie (Jul 24, 2010)

Peanya said:


> Ashe has great advice. To those saying carbon is more comfortable, that's generally true, but not always. My 2011 carbon BMC has the same ride quality as my 2009 aluminum BMC. My older Trek 2100 carbon main triangle with aluminum everything else has a considerably more comfortable ride.


Interesting! My 1885 alum/hydro/carbon Bianchi had an aluminum main frame with carbon stays and fork. Just the opposite.

Also:
Comfort for me is a reletive term. I go slower on my Quatro over the same rough surface that I'd not give a thought to on my old Bianchi 1885. The Pinarello is comfortable, but the Bianchi had proven itself to be tough and trust worthy.

An aluminum bike is like a Miata with rack and pinion steering. Everything is felt through the steering wheel. And that was a good thing!


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## Richard (Feb 17, 2006)

Unless you have a friend who is very knowledgeable (and isn't merely trying to justify his or her own purchases by steering you to something he or she particulalry likes regardless of its suitability for you) a used bike can be the worst of all possible worlds for a noob. Hidden damage, worn components, almost invariably compromises in fit, and, worst of all, no warranty or after sales service (which all bikes need.)

I'm not a big fan of oversize, tig-welded aluminum but as a frame material it has come a long way. Today's Cannondale is head and shoulders a better ride than a 'dale of ten years ago.

Fit, fit, and more fit. I won't sell a bike that doesn't fit and do a free basic fitting on all the road bikes, from the least expensive to a Project One, that roll out our door.


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## Bill Bikie (Jul 24, 2010)

Third Son said:


> Canonndale 2.8


I like your Cannondale. Very clean and simple. It looks just like my Klein Quantum. Maybe the 2.8 was the reason for the lawsuit between Klein and Canondale.

It's a moot point now. At least Gary Klein has the knowledge that he pioneered large tube aluminum bicycle technology.

This is my with a flat bar, just before I sold it.


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## Rip Van Cycle (Jun 11, 2012)

Bill Bikie said:


> Trek is a great product, but they're everywhere and soooo oridinary. Do you really want to show up for a group ride and discover 25 riders on a Trek or Cannondale just like yours?


Speaking for myself, this factor is one that I don't give a (bleep) about.

_This is my bicycle. There are many like it, but this one is mine.
My bicycle, without me, is useless... I will learn it as a brother. 
I will learn its strengths, its weaknesses, its accessories..._

ooo RAH!


Bill Bikie said:


> And don't rule out aluminum!


I agree with you on this one...


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## maximum15 (Feb 6, 2004)

I too have high quality aluminum, ti, and carbon bikes. The wheels and tires I put on them make more difference in the comfort of the ride than the frame materials for rides under 50 miles. My advice would be to try and test ride each with the same wheelset / tire combination and with a close as possible cockpit setup (reach, drop, etc). This will tell you more about your comfort on the bike. As far as one material over the other -- I like each of my bikes equally well.


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## Bill Bikie (Jul 24, 2010)

maximum15 said:


> I too have high quality aluminum, ti, and carbon bikes. The wheels and tires I put on them make more difference in the comfort of the ride than the frame materials for rides under 50 miles. My advice would be to try and test ride each with the same wheelset / tire combination and with a close as possible cockpit setup (reach, drop, etc). This will tell you more about your comfort on the bike. As far as one material over the other -- I like each of my bikes equally well.


Wow!...great advice. Why didn't I think of that!


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## aclinjury (Sep 12, 2011)

hoblxblood said:


> aluminum frames will fatigue over time and not feel the same as when you first bought it
> . Instead of spending 2000bucks every 3-5years for a new aluminum bike, buy a carbon which will last forever, and upgrade it.
> 
> carbon - last longer, stronger, 2x more comfortable, light, good looking. Why do the pros use carbone?cause its the new, and better technology. CAAD is nice but look at their new top line models.... all carbon


Every 3-5 years an aluminum frame needs to be replaced?

Where do people pull this stuff from?

And every check out one of those middle-of-the-line Fuji carbon bike from Performance? It's over 20 lbs. Not exactly light eh.

Stop your babbling.


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## tlg (May 11, 2011)

Bill Bikie said:


> Trek is a great product, but they're everywhere and soooo oridinary. Do you really want to show up for a group ride and discover 25 riders on a Trek or Canondale just like yours?


Jens Voigt got your message. He's going to jog rather than bike in his next race. He doesn't want to show up and be.... ordinary.


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## mksoct1st09 (Aug 3, 2012)

Get the Carbon Bike !!!!


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