# Would it be worth it to upgrade components or buy new bike?



## wikiwikiwahwah (Jan 9, 2010)

I've been riding for a few years, really love it. Currently at a crossroads: Buy a new bike, or just upgrade the one I already have. I would like to pick up a 2010 Super Six with SRAM Red components, I rode one and really love it.

With aerobars + pedals, my current bike weighs ~22lbs. It is a Kestrel EMS carbon frame (2004 or 2005 I believe, ~1150 grams according to my research). Shifters/derailleurs are Dura Ace (whatever series was out 5-ish years ago), handlebars are metal, seatpost is metal, crank/brakes are Shimano 600s, 8 speed cassette (ultrega or 600) for 16 speed total. Those are probably all the relevant specs, let me know if there are others.

My shifters have a lot of play in them and when I stand and pedal hard, often the bike skips forward, like it's skipping a tooth on the chain, I don't really know. Had everything cleaned by a bike shop a year ago, new cassette, new chain, etc, but didn't help too much. Point is: I need new shifters for sure and would like to update my gruppo. 

In the alternative to spending $4300 on a Super Six, my plan, since my frame is solid and my wheels are good, is to consider just buying a full SRAM Red gruppo and updating everything. Looks like I can pick this up off of eBay for $1300 max. Now that I'm getting better at riding, I'd like to have a bike that rides more smoothly and shave about 5lbs off of the weight. 

Is there anything wrong with going this route? Would the SRAM components even fit?


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## ben91 (Dec 5, 2009)

It is always a better value to buy the new bike. You will need the spend a lot of money to drop 5 pounds off a bike. The bike is 5 years old so that is when things start to get dated.


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## 2wd (Oct 26, 2008)

I just did this at the begining of December. Had a solid frameset that I like and that fit, had already upgraded wheels and did not have/could not justify the $$$$ to replace the complete bike when I really like this bike.

It took a long time of looking and waiting but got a smokin deal on a Sram rival group and I could not be happier. 5 lbs is alot, I only dropped 2.1 lbs but only changed the groupset minus the brake calipers.


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## wikiwikiwahwah (Jan 9, 2010)

Thanks for the advice so far. Does anyone know if I would have to replace my rear wheel to do this upgrade?

I am only considering this because I love my frame and it fits me perfectly. Maybe subtracting 5lbs is a little over the top, but I know I would save about 3/4lb. by moving to the red group, so that's a start. My seatpost/seat, just weighed, comes in at just under 2lbs together, so there is a big opportunity. 

Still researching!


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## 2wd (Oct 26, 2008)

The Sram cassette will replace the Shimano cassette that is on your wheel no problem, not compatiable with Campy though.


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## Hank Stamper (Sep 9, 2009)

One thing I think people tend forget to factor in here is that by getting a new bike they then have two bikes (yeah, I'm a math wiz) but upgrading leave you with one still. Which means you either have a bad weather/rain bike so can baby the new one, or can get a few bucks from putting the old one for sale. Upgrade you still got one bike and much less ebay value from old components.
So you get more than just a new bike from buying a new bike. 
Just something to consider.
I recently had the same question myself and went the new bike route. I'm poor now and that did sting.....but I have two bikes instead of one and I also learned I loved my old frame because I didn't know any better (so something else to consider).

Good luck. Hopefully you don't go as basket case as I was.


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## Kerry Irons (Feb 25, 2002)

*Adding it up*



wikiwikiwahwah said:


> It is a Kestrel EMS carbon frame (2004 or 2005 I believe, ~1150 grams according to my research). Shifters/derailleurs are Dura Ace (whatever series was out 5-ish years ago), handlebars are metal, seatpost is metal, crank/brakes are Shimano 600s, 8 speed cassette (ultrega or 600) for 16 speed total.


I'm no Shimano expert, but I am virtually certain that DA in 2004 was 9 speed, at least. It's not clear how the 8 speed stuff got into the mix, but not on a bike bought new in 2004, I don't think. Correct me if I'm wrong (I know everyone will!).


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## PJ352 (Dec 5, 2007)

IMO there are more than a couple of reasons to upgrade your frameset. In your two posts you mentioned that the frame is solid, you love it, and it fits perfectly. These are no small things, so the option to sell it would be far down on my list.

Considering your frameset is in the 1100g range, I think you could easily drop 2 lbs. with some upgrades. They'll cost you some, but you knew that. Your frame is new enough that I don't foresee any major problems going with SRAM or 10 spd, but your chain skip issue _may_ indicate worn pawls requiring a freehub replacement. Could be the chainring(s) are worn as well. Neither are a show stopper (and I may be wrong in my 'web diagnosis'), but something to keep in mind.

Unlike most of us, if you have limitless funds, go buy the Super Six, upgrade your bike and have two nice bikes. If OTOH you have_ limited _funds, IMO your frameset is worthy of an upgrade.


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## PJ352 (Dec 5, 2007)

Kerry Irons said:


> I'm no Shimano expert, but I am virtually certain that DA in 2004 was 9 speed, at least. * It's not clear how the 8 speed stuff got into the mix, but not on a bike bought new in 2004*, I don't think. Correct me if I'm wrong (I know everyone will!).


I agree. An indication (to me) that the bike was built with spare parts is that the OP mentions Ultegra 600. That group preceded Ultegra and was OEM'd on many mid '80 bikes.


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## Mr. Versatile (Nov 24, 2005)

If it were me I'd be looking into buying a new bike. You can upgrade components, but if you choose "high line" stuff like Record or Dura Ace, financially you'll likely be better off getting a new bike. like Hank said, It's really nice to have 2 bikes, a foul weather, commuter, I only clean it a couple of times per year, I don't care if gets scratched bike, and your #1 bike.


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## wikiwikiwahwah (Jan 9, 2010)

Kerry Irons said:


> I'm no Shimano expert, but I am virtually certain that DA in 2004 was 9 speed, at least. It's not clear how the 8 speed stuff got into the mix, but not on a bike bought new in 2004, I don't think. Correct me if I'm wrong (I know everyone will!).


Interesting. It's definitely an 8 speed cassette and I believe when the bike shop replaced it last year, they put in an Ultegra 8 speed cassette. Does that mean that is is a newer bike, or older?

I purchased used from a friend, who bought it new. Haven't talked to him for a while though and I knew zero about bikes at that time. The only thing I knew was that it was a nicer bike and it fit me perfectly.


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## wikiwikiwahwah (Jan 9, 2010)

PJ352 said:


> IMO there are more than a couple of reasons to upgrade your frameset. In your two posts you mentioned that the frame is solid, you love it, and it fits perfectly. These are no small things, so the option to sell it would be far down on my list.
> 
> Considering your frameset is in the 1100g range, I think you could easily drop 2 lbs. with some upgrades. They'll cost you some, but you knew that. Your frame is new enough that I don't foresee any major problems going with SRAM or 10 spd, but your chain skip issue _may_ indicate worn pawls requiring a freehub replacement. Could be the chainring(s) are worn as well. Neither are a show stopper (and I may be wrong in my 'web diagnosis'), but something to keep in mind.
> 
> Unlike most of us, if you have limitless funds, go buy the Super Six, upgrade your bike and have two nice bikes. If OTOH you have_ limited _funds, IMO your frameset is worthy of an upgrade.


Thanks for the advice everyone. As for the skipping: I believe that getting the entire SRAM Red group would fix it, as that would include the crank, cassette, chain, etc.

I was pulling off some parts and doing some weighing. My seat + seatpost is right around 2lbs, so I think that is an opportunity to save some weight. Looks like the current SRAM group saves about .75lbs over the current Dura Ace group, but considering my group is older and adds in Shimano 600 pieces, I think it would save at least a pound, if not more. Maybe I'm wrong.


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## PJ352 (Dec 5, 2007)

wikiwikiwahwah said:


> Interesting. It's definitely an 8 speed cassette and I believe when the bike shop replaced it last year, they put in an Ultegra 8 speed cassette. Does that mean that is is a newer bike, or older?
> 
> I purchased used from a friend, who bought it new. Haven't talked to him for a while though and I knew zero about bikes at that time. The only thing I knew was that it was a nicer bike and it fit me perfectly.


Bikepedia lists the EMS from 2000 to 2003 and all are 9 spd. Considering the mix of components you now have on the bike (and the fact that some are pre Ultegra) at some point in time OEM parts were most likely swapped out.


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## Hank Stamper (Sep 9, 2009)

wikiwikiwahwah said:


> Thanks for the advice everyone. As for the skipping: I believe that getting the entire SRAM Red group would fix it, as that would include the crank, cassette, chain, etc.
> 
> I was pulling off some parts and doing some weighing. My seat + seatpost is right around 2lbs, so I think that is an opportunity to save some weight. Looks like the current SRAM group saves about .75lbs over the current Dura Ace group, but considering my group is older and adds in Shimano 600 pieces, I think it would save at least a pound, if not more. Maybe I'm wrong.


I know you said your current wheels are good.......but depending on just how good they are, if you're looking to drop weight to increase performance.....wheels are still generally the first place to look. Naturally there's a catch, it's an expensive place to look compared to seat post and that type of non rotating part.
A lighter seat post is better than a heavier one, don't get me wrong, but for noticeable improvement in performance it won't get you much compared to a fraction of the weight reduction off the wheels. That needs to be balanced with making sure the wheels are strong enough though.


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## PJ352 (Dec 5, 2007)

wikiwikiwahwah said:


> Thanks for the advice everyone. As for the skipping: I believe that getting the entire SRAM Red group would fix it, as that would include the crank, cassette, chain, etc.
> 
> I was pulling off some parts and doing some weighing. My seat + seatpost is right around 2lbs, so I think that is an opportunity to save some weight. Looks like the current SRAM group saves about .75lbs over the current Dura Ace group, but considering my group is older and adds in Shimano 600 pieces, I think it would save at least a pound, if not more. Maybe I'm wrong.


I don't think you're wrong about the weight savings (you may even be low in your estimates), but remember that upgrading your drivetrain will only correct the skipping if you replace the worn part(s). If it's the freehub, unless you replace that, the skipping most likely will remain.


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## rock mafia (Aug 1, 2009)

PJ352 said:


> Bikepedia lists the EMS from 2000 to 2003 and all are 9 spd. Considering the mix of components you now have on the bike (and the fact that some are pre Ultegra) at some point in time OEM parts were most likely swapped out.



They go back farther than that, the kestrels I remember from the early 90's were ems. I'd say its from the early/mid 90's. They were one of the first (if not the first) monocoque carbon frames.

Oldest with pictures
http://bikepedia.com/QuickBike/BikeSpecs.aspx?Year=1998&Brand=Kestrel&Model=200EMS+(02)&Type=bike

1995
http://bikepedia.com/QuickBike/BikeSpecs.aspx?ItemID=34085&Type=bike

1993
http://bikepedia.com/QuickBike/BikeSpecs.aspx?ItemID=41920&Type=bike


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## PJ352 (Dec 5, 2007)

rock mafia said:


> They go back farther than that, the kestrels I remember from the early 90's were ems. I'd say its from the early/mid 90's. They were one of the first (if not the first) monocoque carbon frames.
> 
> Oldest with pictures
> http://bikepedia.com/QuickBike/BikeSpecs.aspx?Year=1998&Brand=Kestrel&Model=200EMS+(02)&Type=bike
> ...


Yup. I went back until I didn't see it listed, so I obviously missed from '99. I knew Kestrels have been around through the 90's, but didn't know the original was the EMS. The 600 group was later named Ultegra 600 (then the 600 was subsequently dropped), so that the bike was OEM'd with Ultegra 600 till the late 90's doesn't suprise me.

Your estimate on the year is probably a good one, although I don't get the 8 spd and a mix if DA/ Ultegra 600. But with a bike that old, parts swaps are a given.


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## waldo425 (Sep 22, 2008)

I say get a new bike. If you're concerned with weight savings then just upgrading the old one probably wont cut it. Plus it would probably be more fun to have a new bike. Replace the parts that need to be replaced and get the Super Six.


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