# Schwalbe One Tubeless - info please



## Stumpy2011 (Aug 1, 2011)

Looking for new Tubeless set.
Currently I ride Hutchinson Intensives tubeless 25's which are really great.
Got new set of wheels and looking for recommendations for tubeless tires.
Does anybody have experience with the new Schwalbe one Tubeless or a good link of a review ?


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## flash123 (Dec 7, 2013)

*Hutchinson Instensive vs Schwalbe One*



Stumpy2011 said:


> Looking for new Tubeless set.
> Currently I ride Hutchinson Intensives tubeless 25's which are really great.
> Got new set of wheels and looking for recommendations for tubeless tires.
> Does anybody have experience with the new Schwalbe one Tubeless or a good link of a review ?


I've ridden Intensive, Padrones, Bontrager R2 and Schwalbe Utremo Tubeless and no Ones.

The Intensives are durable. I picked up thorn somewhere during my week ride on the Danube but I didn't matter. To bad the tire slips. The worst part is it seemed like the side walls would collapse on the front wheel and it would just come out. That would be whiles standing in a turn or going over lip or imperfections in the asphalt.

I had on major crash with it. Flipped the bike and broke the rear derailer and front shifter.

Next up, Padrone. That's a sticky tire. To bad though side wall cuts easily and wares fast. Probably best for racing. It's the most expensive I know of.

Then it was the Bontrager. Didn't hold air that well. Slips but nothing like the Intensives. Going downhill in corners when it's wet I could feel the back come out.

Ultremo ZXs seemed to stick better than the Bontrager but it also slips in the corners. It also wears farely quickly. I think it lasted 2 months before I saw the casing.

It's been 2-3 weeks with the ones. I haven't done any wet descents but it seems to be holding up. We'll see in 2-3 months. 

I have to say you need to try what you can and decide on your own.

I started with Intensive but I don't expect to go back. I want 25-28 but right now only the 23s are available at the place where I bought the Intensives. It was World Class Cycles. 

I don't mind saying it because I've looked around the world to find tubeless and I've bought them here at home, in France and in the US.


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## Stumpy2011 (Aug 1, 2011)

Wow - you have lots of experience with a large variety of tubeless tires.
I've been riding the tubeless Intensive 25's for over a year and I am VERY happy with them
Great grip in the fast descending turns, durability and protection. 
0 flat tires since I bought it.
Truth is I never rode in the rain or very wet conditions - I am in Socal and we dont have too much rain here, so I can elect to avoid rising in rainy days...

Waiting for the Tubeless One 23's to arrive any day now.


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## cooskull (Nov 30, 2013)

I think it depends whether you want 23c or 25c tires- your choices for 25c tires are few: The Intensive, Bonty R2/R3 and Schwalbe One. Staying with 23c gives many more options.
Like flash123 I've had serious issues with the Bonty R2s holding air. Good tire in most respects but the air loss is intolerable. Maybe the R3s are better but I'm not willing to fork out $90 a piece to find out. 
Personally I really liked the Padrones I had- phenominal handling and traction, decent wear (2200m rear, 4000m front), relatively good price (found mine for $70 each). Just wanted a 25c tire with a little more volume for a smoother ride. Schwalbe Ones will be my next tire choice as well.


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## Stumpy2011 (Aug 1, 2011)

cooskull said:


> I think it depends whether you want 23c or 25c tires- .


I rather have a 25...but as you mentioned those are not abundant
Anyway, the Hutchinson 25 intensive runs pretty thin - more like a 23 than a 25.
Probably the "One" 23 once mounted will have an actual width similar to or better than the Intensive.


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## trener1 (Jan 22, 2004)

One brand that doesn't seem to get much press, but I have a couple of friends that ride and say that they are fantastic are the IRC tubless tires.
I would definitely take a look at those as well.


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## mattsavage (Apr 25, 2007)

If we could get IRC in the US, I'd swoop on those for sure. Excellent tires! Too bad theres no distribution here.

The Bontrager R2/R3's are excellent tubeless tires! They have great grip, wear consistently, very cut resistant. At 25c they are considerably wider than the Intensive. 

I used to run the Padrone, great tire, but too skinny for my tastes and very spendy. The Ultremo was a great tire as well, but prone to large cuts that would eventually burst and not very repairable.

I'm excited to try the new Schwalbe One's, but not until my new Hutchinson Sector's wear out. These are by FAR the best tire I've ridden! On a 25mm rim, they measure out to 28.4mm. Extremely durable, very grippy, over 1000miles and show little wear. They seal up and hold pressure better than any tubeless I've used yet. At 295g, they're considerably lighter than any other offering at this size. I'm strongly considering running these year round, since I do wind up on lots of gravel in the summer. I've only set them up on TLR rims, Ultegras, but I'm sure like the Intensive, they'll seal right up just fine on a non-TLR rim.

I've run tubeless setups on Deep-V's, Ksyrium's, A23, Corsa Concepts, Kinlins, random Mavic touring rims, Chinese carbon, mostly with the Intensive and Bontrager R2's. This is the only way to ride a bike.

Right now, if I went with another tire other than the Sector, it'd be the Bontrager 25c's. They're light, durable, grippy...


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## temoore (Mar 9, 2004)

mattsavage said:


> ... but not until my new Hutchinson Sector's wear out. These are by FAR the best tire I've ridden! On a 25mm rim, they measure out to 28.4mm. Extremely durable, very grippy, over 1000miles and show little wear. They seal up and hold pressure better than any tubeless I've used yet. At 295g, they're considerably lighter than any other offering at this size. I'm strongly considering running these year round, since I do wind up on lots of gravel in the summer. I've only set them up on TLR rims, Ultegras, but I'm sure like the Intensive, they'll seal right up just fine on a non-TLR rim.


I have used Hutchinson Intensives, Fusion 3 and recently Secteur 28's. I loved the Secteurs ride, but in the last month, I have had two flats with the Secteurs, one front, one rear. I went years with the Intensives with no flats. I use sealant and the cuts were too much for the sealant. Maybe just bad luck, wonder how others have faired with the Secteurs.


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## Stumpy2011 (Aug 1, 2011)

Any reduction in performance of the Secteur 28 Vs the Intensive 25 as far as speed, climbs descents etc..?


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## cooskull (Nov 30, 2013)

mattsavage said:


> If we could get IRC in the US, I'd swoop on those for sure. Excellent tires! Too bad theres no distribution here.


You can buy them online from the following source.

Disclaimer: I haven't actually bought any items from this source, but FWIW I believe other users in several different forums have said that they are a reputable seller.


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## scooterman (Apr 15, 2006)

Any local bike shop can order irc tubeless road tires for you as BTI USA is a distributor. 








cooskull said:


> You can buy them online from the following source.
> 
> Disclaimer: I haven't actually bought any items from this source, but FWIW I believe other users in several different forums have said that they are a reputable seller.


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## warx (Aug 29, 2012)

Just adding my $0.02. I am running a Bonty R3 TLR 25c on a 25mm Belgium plus rim. It runs at 26.8mm wide. And it does not hold air well (has 1.25oz of Stans). After two days it's down to 25psi. I like it though. If I mount a Ultremo 23c it runs 25.6mm and holds air well. I have this same tire on the front (ultegra tubeless) and runs 23mm. I'm looking to put a 25c on the front for some Grasshopper races (local mixed gravel/road) but not convinced about getting another R3 TLR 25c. I could put the ultremo back on the back and the R3 on the front to get two 25mm wide tires. Or try something new - can't find many reports on the IRC tires - or the Ones really.

I had a Fortezza Tricomp 25c (not tubeless) on there at 28.6mm. Too wide for my EVO chain stays. 

Anyways, here's some pics of each on the rims:
Coyotes Bike Club - Woody


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## cooskull (Nov 30, 2013)

warx said:


> Just adding my $0.02. I am running a Bonty R3 TLR 25c on a 25mm Belgium plus rim. It runs at 26.8mm wide. And it does not hold air well (has 1.25oz of Stans). After two days it's down to 25psi.


I had the same issue with some 25c R2s I got last November. Mine would go from 90 PSI to 40 PSI in one day. Someone in this forum said it was a known defect (for a certain batch?) so I returned them to my local Trek store who graciously gave me a full refund for them.

Next I tried some 23c Schwalbe One tires. Very good tire in many respects, but the durability was horrible. You could wait for the 25/28c versions to come out and try them, but IME I don't think they would hold up too well for rocky/rough road riding.

I've heard good reports on the Hutchinson Sectors so those might be a good option, or perhaps try some Specialized Roubaix tires as well?


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## warx (Aug 29, 2012)

I can only find the Sectuer in 28 which won't fit my bike. I was looking for a tire with a bit of tread like that Roubaix for the gravel racing. Might try a $90 Tubeless version and see how wide it gets on the 25mm HED rim. Funny as the Specialized web site says it is 23/25 - is the same option?! Does that mean averages at 24??? For the non-TLR you also can choose 25/28(!) Gets good reviews.

I figure though that if I need to get more tread and wider than 25 then I've got to get the cross bike out for the ride. Right now it has either Mud 2 or Ravens on which are not great on the road!

Also more reading about all this I see people really like the R3. Still nothing on the IRC tires...


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## cooskull (Nov 30, 2013)

warx said:


> I can only find the Sectuer in 28 which won't fit my bike. I was looking for a tire with a bit of tread like that Roubaix for the gravel racing. Might try a $90 Tubeless version and see how wide it gets on the 25mm HED rim. Funny as the Specialized web site says it is 23/25 - is the same option?! Does that mean averages at 24??? For the non-TLR you also can choose 25/28(!) Gets good reviews.


My understanding is the tire width is 25mm, and the 23mm refers to the width of the slick tread- but for all practical purposes you use the wider number for the width.


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## igerdog (Mar 22, 2006)

The Sector 28 is a superb tyre. I highly recommend it, if it fits your fork and stays. I've also run the Specialized Roubaix and it's pretty good too, just stupidly expensive - you can get a pair of the Sectors for about $120 on Ebay, the Roubaix is $90 + tax for one.

I raced Rouge Roubaix on the Sector this year and it performed flawlessly. I know a few others that used it too, and it did great on the gravel.


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## warx (Aug 29, 2012)

I'll post my race experience from last weekend on the Grasshopper Sweetwater Supreme. Rough roads and several miles of MTB-style downhill with some rock sections and gravel ascent (Old Cazadero). My front Bonty R3 25c and my rear Spez. Roubaix 23/25 tubeless handled it all great on my road bike. Admittedly those on cross bikes with 28 - 35 tires were easily passing on the dirt but I also saw a dozen or so road bike flats (heard a couple too). There was even some muddy bogs that pretty much disabled my brakes for a minute each and I thought I was about to lose the drivetrain. Steering 25s through that stuff was not so much fun. Any more distance on the dirt and I'd switch to the cross bike with road 28 or some file tread 32. Anyways, a testament to road tubeless I think.


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## cooskull (Nov 30, 2013)

Anybody heard an update on when Schwalbe One tubeless 25c tires will be available for purchase?


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## rmerka (Jan 16, 2013)

Just ordered a 25c Schwalbe One tubeless direct from Schwalbe ONE | Schwalbe North AmericaChecked yesterday and they were out but today IN, yeah


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## Blue CheeseHead (Jul 14, 2008)

warx said:


> I can only find the Sectuer in 28 which won't fit my bike. I was looking for a tire with a bit of tread like that Roubaix for the gravel racing. Might try a $90 Tubeless version and see how wide it gets on the 25mm HED rim. Funny as the Specialized web site says it is 23/25 - is the same option?! Does that mean averages at 24??? For the non-TLR you also can choose 25/28(!) Gets good reviews.
> 
> I figure though that if I need to get more tread and wider than 25 then I've got to get the cross bike out for the ride. Right now it has either Mud 2 or Ravens on which are not great on the road!
> 
> Also more reading about all this I see people really like the R3. Still nothing on the IRC tires...


As far as tire size goes, think about the rim as being part of the tire circumference as it basically completes the circle. Going from a 19 mm rim to the 25mm rim increases the circumference by approximately 6mm. Divide that by 3.14 (Pi) and you get the approximate increase in diameter (~2mm). You will note that works regardless of advertised tire diameter(23, 25 or 28)


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## triumph3banger (Jun 13, 2012)

I just slapped a set of IRC. Roadlites on my Ksyrium SL's, after a few sets of Fusion 3's. Ordered them from Alex' Cycles. Only a couple hundred, but Ill report back in the fall. Totally loving Tubeless, though!


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## warx (Aug 29, 2012)

OK - my Bonty R3 which never held air well suddenly got to a state where it would not hold air for more than 20 mins (discovered this on a downhill!). Strangely no signs of wear or damage. About 1000 miles on it too. The tire had done a few adventure races (Grasshopper series in NorCal) with no problems. Anyways, I put my OEM 23c Ultremo back on the front for the moment until I can pick a new 25c replacement. Guess it's going to be IRC or a One.


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## joshhan (Jan 9, 2012)

Just got a set of Ones in 25mm mounted them to my DA C24 wheels at 70/75 and they feel great. They look a little narrow for 25 though. Does anyone have a caliper they can measure them with?


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## warx (Aug 29, 2012)

I have calipers and will measure once I get a set. For my rear tire I actually need a "narrow" 25c since my rim is so wide to start with. Might work out for me! Perhaps I'll get one IRC Roadlite and one One to try. I use the 40/60% weight distribution (from John Neugent) so typically run 65/95 in 25c tires.

Have got a few measured and shown here (half way down): Coyotes Bike Club - Woody

And here's another reference of widths and Crr:
Blather 'bout Bikes: A Compendium of Tubeless Crr Results (plus getting up to date with some Vittoria and Specialized results)


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## warx (Aug 29, 2012)

Well here's an interesting turn. I had my OEM Schwalbe Ultremo put back on my front and was descending Mt Diablo when the sidewall ripped (see pic). Fun time bringing the bike to a stand still as it deflated in a second and sprayed my leg with Stans sealant toboot. I was not even sure it would hold the spare tube I put inside it - the pic shows it bulging and it did make it down and home.

I am not entirely sure if I ran over something or not. It had the sound of running over something metal but the guy behind me saw nothing other than the sound of the rim clunking to the pavement and me starting to weave at 35mph

Going to mount the IRC or the Schwalbe One that I have ready.


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## cooskull (Nov 30, 2013)

*IRC Roadlite 25c review*

Just finished off my rear IRC Roadlite 25c tire which I had mounted on a Pacenti SL23 rim. Here's my $0.02 review here since the official review feature of this website is defunct:

Pros:

VERY WIDE tire when mounted- Hutchi Intensives these are not. Mine measured a hair over 26mm wide fully inflated and broken in 
Good cut resistance 
Very comfy ride, these tires soak up the high frequency buzz very well but still have great "road feel" to them 

Cons:

Was a PITA to mount and still was a PITA to dismount 1400 miles later. It's a good thing I never had to fix those buggars out on the road because it took me 10 minutes just to get the tire off! Keep in mind this is the only tubeless tire/rim combo I have ever had to use levers on. Not sure how much of this is attributable to the notorious (for tire mounting) Pacenti rim, but I subsequently mounted a Scwalbe One 25c tire without levers and little issue.
Relatively heavy (340g 'ish) 

Mehs:

Decent in the speed category but felt substantially slower than Schwalbe Ones 
Handling/cornering was good but not exceptional (by tubeless standards) 
OK durability, got about 1400 miles on the rear. I typically get 2x miles on the front 
OK price, found mine for about $70 each shipped to my door 
Lost about 10 PSI per day which is certainly tolerable but have had other tubless tires which only lost 1-2 PSI per day. 


Bottom line, these may become my goto tires but I'll see how the 25c Schwalbe Ones work out that I just got. They're kind of like Conti GP4000s for tubeless, a good "Jack of all trades but master of none" tire.


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## cooskull (Nov 30, 2013)

warx said:


> Well here's an interesting turn. I had my OEM Schwalbe Ultremo put back on my front and was descending Mt Diablo when the sidewall ripped (see pic). Fun time bringing the bike to a stand still as it deflated in a second and sprayed my leg with Stans sealant toboot. I was not even sure it would hold the spare tube I put inside it - the pic shows it bulging and it did make it down and home.
> 
> I am not entirely sure if I ran over something or not. It had the sound of running over something metal but the guy behind me saw nothing other than the sound of the rim clunking to the pavement and me starting to weave at 35mph


At least the tire stayed on the rim and you could maintain control. Most likely if that happened with a tubed clincher you would have been eating pavement. One of the benefits of tubeless many people overlook/undervalue.


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## Stumpy2011 (Aug 1, 2011)

Schwalbe doesn't list the Ultremo in their Road tubeless line-up, or am I missing something ?
Tubeless | Schwalbe North America
Also, next time when you have a major cut, put an empty sport Gel wrapper or a folded dollar bill or the ParkTool TB-2 Tire boot prior to installing the tube, it will prevent the bulging.


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## warx (Aug 29, 2012)

I thought about the dollar bill after I'd used one of my two CO2 containers. I could take the chance of using my last to deflate-reinflate or not! It was somewhat controllable and I was able to weave for a bit since it was on a straight. Coming to a complete stop was hard since it was 9 or 10% gradient and the tire span on the rim if I braked much at all and hard keeping my weight back so it was a two footed cleat brake that stopped me in the end.

I was hoping the IRC had exceptional grip - shame to hear it just normal. I might mount the One instead today and try it. Also I am switching to Orange Seal - not because of this unsealable incident but I want to try it. 

Website listing-wise it's the Ultremo ZX that is not shown on their tubeless page but has this quote "But the real revolution lies in the new tubeless option" Ultremo ZX | Schwalbe North America


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## cooskull (Nov 30, 2013)

warx said:


> I was hoping the IRC had exceptional grip - shame to hear it just normal. I might mount the One instead today and try it.


Take that statement with some room for error since, to be honest, grip is a hard quality for me to quantify. While I like to bomb down mountain passes, in general I don't push my tires to their limits (like say a crit racer would) because a few seconds worth of extra carried speed isn't worth the risk of me ditching the bike. 

I will say that in general I have felt much more confident cornering with all my tubeless tire choices compared to the Conti GP4000s and Fortezza tricomps tubed clinchers I used to run.


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## Stumpy2011 (Aug 1, 2011)

warx said:


> I thought about the dollar bill after I'd used one of my two CO2 containers. I could take the chance of using my last to deflate-reinflate or not! It was somewhat controllable and I was able to weave for a bit since it was on a straight. Coming to a complete stop was hard since it was 9 or 10% gradient and the tire span on the rim if I braked much at all and hard keeping my weight back so it was a two footed cleat brake that stopped me in the end.
> 
> I was hoping the IRC had exceptional grip - shame to hear it just normal. I might mount the One instead today and try it. Also I am switching to Orange Seal - not because of this unsealable incident but I want to try it.
> 
> Website listing-wise it's the Ultremo ZX that is not shown on their tubeless page but has this quote "But the real revolution lies in the new tubeless option" Ultremo ZX | Schwalbe North America


re: Ultremo: Probably Schwalbe realized that it was not up to the task and ditched it in favor of "the One" :thumbsup:
re: CO2 - not your scenario, but please be aware that using that will dry the tubeless sealant. So if you must use it , make sure you refill with fresh sealant once you are back home...

All in all, I use tubeless exclusively for all of our Road and MTB bikes and I am probably never going back to tubes.


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## warx (Aug 29, 2012)

I am a convert too - cross bike, road and MTB are all tubeless and not going back.

Anyways, I just mounted the IRC Roadlite 25. It went on OK by hand with dishwashing smear (bit tighter than the Ultremo), inflated very easily and measures 25.50mm on the Ultegra 6700 rim.


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## purdyd (Jun 18, 2010)

I just got some Schwalbe One's in 25mm and fusions 25mm.

measured in around 24.9mm at 80 psi on shimano dura ace rims



about 316 grams with the fusions at 299

the fusions might have more grip, just skidding them over the floor

I was using bontrager R3 in 25mm and they are very light but don't hold air very well and were too fragile for the crappy roads around my home

I liked the ole IRC top secret but they were too hard to get and appear to be discontinued


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## slash sk (Dec 14, 2011)

warx said:


> Well here's an interesting turn. I had my OEM Schwalbe Ultremo put back on my front and was descending Mt Diablo when the sidewall ripped (see pic)....
> View attachment 298960


I was compelled to reply to this...I too had a sidewall blowout on a Ultremo on the front while descending Mt Diablo! 

And, (more weirdness) the location and shape of the the cut is almost identical to your pic! (see my pic) The "crack" changes direction at the same spot...

Hmm, I don't know what to make of this...and I don't want to slam the tire--I really liked it. Luckily I didn't go down, but it was a scary incident. Tire had almost 4K miles on it and I was just about ready to replace...although it looked fine. Inflation was around 80 psi on a Stans rim...


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## warx (Aug 29, 2012)

That is pretty strange! I mean even on the same letter?! Perhaps we should both send the tires in for examination. Glad you controlled it OK too.

OK - here's my strava on that ride and you can see at around 2:29 is where I had to stop and the blowout was about 75 metres back up the hill I am guessing. I still am not sure if I ran over something - there was a sound of something metallic. Also, my Ultremos had probably less than 100 miles on them since I took them off when I got the bike.

BTW I have been loving my IRC Roadlite 25 tubeless. So happy to be back on 25s. Running 65-70psi again. Great grip. My rear Roubaix Pro tubeless is looking more and more squared off so it might get the Schwalbe One if it fits on the super-wide rim else it'll get my other Ultremo 23.

Again blowout at 2:29:00 ish
Bike Ride Profile | Mt Diablo (summit twice) near | Times and Records | Strava


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## warx (Aug 29, 2012)

My Specialized Roubaix Pro Tubeless 23/25 was showing some threads on the center line today after about 2000 miles so I put my other OEM (took off) Ultremo ZX on the back. A little nervous about it's sidewall! On the wide Belgium+ rim it measures 25.3mm which is very slightly narrower than the rim itself. The Roubaix was a perfect size on this rim for my EVO (a slight rub when out of the seat in a steep climb/sprint) but this is about 1mm narrower so probably a bit less rub. I have aluminum "wear" tape on the stays just in case... The 25 Schwalbe One was too wide on that rim. At least I get the 25 from 23 tires.


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## foot hill (Sep 25, 2010)

.
My experience with tubeless tires with alpha 340 wheel. 

I've ridden two sets of intensives 25mm (few years ago) good durable training/all around tire
Ride was kind of stiff and they were quite heavy. (Compared to others)
Developed large cracks before wearing out 

Then two sets of 23mm fusions 2's and newer 3
Lighter snappier than the intensive and almost as large (once on rim for few days) as 25mm intensive. More grip on road I'd say also. 
These both developed side wall/bead cracks before wearing out. 

Then sector 28mm
I loved these. I believe they were <290gm ea and super comfortable and cornered incredibly well. I'm 5-10 155lbs and ran them at @65psi ft and about 70psi rear. Sounds slow huh? They rolled really quickly and felt much more lively thand their size would sugest. (And cleared my tcr advanced with force group)
Just loved these, thinking I had found my tire.. Well time came to refresh the sealant (stans) and the rubber bead covering carbon bead became delaminated and kept getting stuck in bead. 

See a pattern?
The Hutchinson tubeless tires carbon bead does not stretch -good for keeping tire on tubeless rim- but, the rubber cover just cracks and separates. 
So

I'm using IRC ROADLIGHT (bought from amazon or eBay I forgot) and they are about the same size as fusion 23's about the same weight but have better grip and more cushioned ride. Just more pliable sidewalls and softer rubber tread 
Love them so far at about 800 mi are not showing any sings of cracks. 

Btw. I work in Livermore few days a week and have ridden mt. Diablo few times also. (L'tape) glad no sidewall cuts on that descent!!


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## warx (Aug 29, 2012)

I've had my IRC Roadlight 25c on the front for a while now and am still liking it. The Schwalbe One will replace it but still good rubber on it. The Ultremo is holding out in the back and I will put my Roubaix Pro Tubeless on there once I start doing some adventure racing on the road bike.

I get my IRC tires from Outside Outfitters. I bought Cerac CX (cross) tires that I am liking too. Many have never even heard of this brand. 

Talking of adventure racing (~50 miles bad roads and ~20 miles of trails typically here in Sonoma "Grasshoppers") I got some NoTube Grail wheels so I can put road pressure tires on my cross bike (excellent mud clearance and disc brakes). The worst events will use cross/gravel tires but am thinking of the Secteur 28 for ones that are more in the spring and don't need the knobbies. My EVO road bike with the 25 had mud issues. Strange that for 28 there is still NO choice for real tubeless. Even the new Specialized All Conditions are not tubeless.


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## Kirk Pacenti (Mar 18, 2006)

cooskull said:


> Cons:
> 
> Was a PITA to mount and still was a PITA to dismount 1400 miles later. It's a good thing I never had to fix those buggars out on the road because it took me 10 minutes just to get the tire off! Keep in mind this is the only tubeless tire/rim combo I have ever had to use levers on. Not sure how much of this is attributable to the notorious (for tire mounting) Pacenti rim, but I subsequently mounted a Scwalbe One 25c tire without levers and little issue.
> Relatively heavy (340g 'ish)


Both are very good products, from highly regarded tire manufacturers. This post just provides more evidence that is *almost always *the tire and not the rim. 

It's relatively easy to manufacture metal products to very tight tolerances. In the case of the Pacenti SL23 rim, we hold +/- 0.015" in diameter. Manufacturing rubber products to tolerances that tight, even from the best makers... not so much. 

Cheers, 
KP


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## dcgriz (Feb 13, 2011)

Kirk Pacenti said:


> Both are very good products, from highly regarded tire manufacturers. This post just provides more evidence that is *almost always *the tire and not the rim.
> 
> It's relatively easy to manufacture metal products to very tight tolerances. In the case of the Pacenti SL23 rim, we hold +/- 0.015" in diameter. Manufacturing rubber products to tolerances that tight, even from the best makers... not so much.
> 
> ...


Consumers have found ourselves in an industry transitional point where there are no strict standards set yet on tubeless rims and/or tires. 

The point you made about compliance to tight tolerances appears to be very valid, especially considering not all tires are created equal. However, from the tire manufacturer's point of view, not all rims are created equal, either. 

From the Challenge website, under the FAQ section:
Now many wheel companies are promoting the aerodynamic advantages of wider rims but fail to explain to their (and our) customers they must still follow the ETRTO standard to match the proper (wider) tire with the wider rim. Now many wheel companies are promoting the advantages of tubeless tires and tubeless compatible rims but fail to explain to their (and our) customers they have sacrificed proper rim depth, space under the rim hook or even increased the (industry standard) 622mm rim diameter so our customers complain to us if they cannot install or remove our tires (or sometimes the tires come off the rims unexpectedly if our bead does not seat under the rim hook properly). We try to combat these unforeseen problems created by ignorant rim designers (and unsuspecting consumers) for example by adding instructions to every tire with the ETRTO tire / rim width compatibility chart and plastering that same chart all over our website - but it is not a fun or rewarding task.


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## Kirk Pacenti (Mar 18, 2006)

Agreed. 

Something else that is *almost always* true is that tire makers blame rim makers, and rim makers blame tire makers for poor (excessively tight or excessively loose) tire-rim interface. I've made both tires and rims, so I am not afforded luxury of taking either of those positions. I have learned that it's much easier to maintain tolerances on rim production from one production run to the next than it is for tires.

I can't speak for other rim makers, but all Pacenti rims are produced with strict adherence to ETRTO guidelines. 

I have heard that some other rim makers make rims larger than ETRTO dimensions in order to (supposedly) provide a tighter fit for better tubeless performance. I don't believe that's a valid way to achieve the goal.





dcgriz said:


> Consumers have found ourselves in an industry transitional point where there are no strict standards set yet on tubeless rims and/or tires.
> 
> The point you made about compliance to tight tolerances appears to be very valid, especially considering not all tires are created equal. However, from the tire manufacturer's point of view, not all rims are created equal, either.
> 
> ...


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## Blue CheeseHead (Jul 14, 2008)

The ETRTO measurement has little to do with how hard it is to mount a tire as that only tells where the bead seat is. The two rim measurements that impact the ease of mounting a tire include the overall diameter at the outer edge of the brake track and the depth of the well on the inside of the rim.

I have mounted the same tire on my HED+ wheels and my DuraAce wheels. The HED go on reasonably easy and tires can be dismounted on the roadside if need be. With the DuraAce the same tire is so tight I would not even try to do a roadside repair. Again this was with the exact same tire thus removing that variable completely.


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## dcgriz (Feb 13, 2011)

Kirk Pacenti said:


> Agreed.
> 
> Something else that is *almost always* true is that tire makers blame rim makers, and rim makers blame tire makers for poor (excessively tight or excessively loose) tire-rim interface. I've made both tires and rims, so I am not afforded luxury of taking either of those positions. I have learned that it's much easier to maintain tolerances on rim production from one production run to the next than it is for tires.
> 
> ...


I agree and wonder if a list of preferred/tested tire-rim combinations issued by the rim and/or tire manufacturer would help thin out the crowd.

From the consumer's point of view, such list would be very welcome although it may be very difficult to compile because of business liabilities and limitations.

However, as it stands for the moment, what I personally do is to specifically seek non-tubeless ready rims for road use tubed wheels. I believe others share the same belief.


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## warx (Aug 29, 2012)

Update: Ultremo ZX on the rear started showing threads at 1700 miles. It was not bad - and obviously did much better than my front one with the big tear (described in this thread) Put another Spez. Roubaix 23/25 on there as I do like them and get about 1900 grippy miles out of them. 
Front IRC Roadlite 25c is at 1900 miles and still looks good. The Schwalbe One 25c is waiting in the wings for it to wear out.

Also on my cross bike I now have NoTubes Grail wheels with Sector 28c tubeless and they are pretty nice. Done a few adventure races (20% gravel/dirt, 80% tarmac).


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## warx (Aug 29, 2012)

More updates. My IRC 25 roadlite is up to 3000 miles and has worked great! Very happy. Does drop from 72 to 40psi in a day or two but used to that.

So on my rear tire I replaced my Roubaix Pro after 1800 good miles with the same (need that 23/25 since a 25 on the wide rim won't fit the Evo). Anyways the new Roubaix had a 4mm split after hitting a rock. I repaired with Hutchinson Rep-Air MTB patch (bigger than the tiny road Rep-Air). a couple of rides later I got pinhole somehow and I waited and waited for the (Orange) sealant to work. I had to hold a finger over the hole for 2 minutes to finally get it to seal and get me home where I did another patch. I just don't think road pressures (100psi is what I run in the rear, 72 in the front) work with sealant. 

Anyways this weekend I did a hot ride and threw the bike in my car for a few hours. I came back and a 10mm bubble had appeared at the first patch. It of course popped when I touched it. Luckily it did not do that during the ride and it had done another 250 miles before too. I guess the MTB patch was not thick enough to withstand pushing through the tire hole. I am thinking now that road tubeless with any sort of hole bigger than 2-3mm is not repairable. 

I am going to try the Schwable One 23 on the rear this time and I will put a 25 One on the front too as I think the IRC is getting a bit thin. If I don't like the Ones I'll got IRC Roadlite 23 & 25 again.


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## warx (Aug 29, 2012)

I mounted the 23c Schwalbe One on the Belgium+ wide rim. It measures 25.6mm (same as the outside of rim). Easy to mount but tight. Inflated with just a floor pump.

BTW here's a pic of the patch that failed.


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## MercRidnMike (Dec 19, 2006)

I can't comment on the tubeless Ones, but I can put in a couple notes about the regular version. They are a fast rolling and pretty grippy tire overall (I run latex tubes)...just set a new PR for speed on a long downhill run and they stuck like glue and were very confidence inspiring at 50+mph / 80+ km/h. I do find that the grip comes with a price though....they seem to nick up a little easier and likely wear a little quicker than such favorites as the Conti GP4KS tires. 

I suspect the tread material will be similar in the tubeless version, though the casing will be different. If some of the magazines are to be believed, the tubeless ones may roll a hair bit faster, but with similar feel.

The next wheelset I am building will be tubeless capable....but you'll likely have found out more about the tubeless Ones before I do.


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## robt57 (Jul 23, 2011)

Hutchinsins for my experience. first road tubeless experience is Atom 23C. I just took them off as the front [was the back first] is pretty thin and I had 6 sealed punctures in 4-5 rides up on the front. [usually always flat rears] I got them used originally and can not make any mileage claims. But would estimate 1500 on them, and the cuts are few. A surprise to me [@ my weight]. And I put the old rear on my as front...

Replacements are 23C Fusion III. [the one Atom is still in very good shape and good rubber] I was going to just move the rear Atom to the front and put one of the Fusion III on the rear. But after all the dusting and cleaning to get ready to mount new tires and new sealant, I decided to just mount both Fusion III.

These are on 7801-SL Scandium Dura Ace wheels which are lasting forever [sans one broke spoke that a pedal encountered].

Back to the tires. I expected the Fusion III to not ride as nice as the Atoms, but have found this not to be the case. I considered 25C and even the 28C Secteurs. Again, glad I went with the 23C. Road use only in this case. I find the 23C Hutch tubeless ride so nice they compare if not exceed the ride quality of my 320 TPI Vitt Paves 25C, even my 27 Paves although closer.

I am 215 lb and run 90/95 in the air dept. 80/85 in the tubed 27mm Paves.

Again, I can not make mileage claims, but find myself grabbing the bike with the 7801/tubeless 23C over my 25 and 27 setups. 


So if I were to rate both the Atom and Fusion it would be favorable reviews.


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## cooskull (Nov 30, 2013)

robt57 said:


> And I put the old rear on my as front...


Blasphemy!!! 

All kidding aside though, I wouldn't bother swapping front/rear tires with tubeless in any direction- IMO it's just more hassle than it's worth. When I need tubeless tires I always buy them in multiples of three, with the logic being that I'll go through at least two rear tires for every front tire. This has the benefit that if you're trying new tire brands/sizes you always get a new front and rear at the same time, no bastardized tire mixing or throwing away of tires with substantial useful life left.


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## robt57 (Jul 23, 2011)

cooskull said:


> All kidding aside though, I wouldn't bother swapping front/rear tires with tubeless in any direction- IMO it's just more hassle than it's worth.


As I said, I got them used, the Atoms. So when you buy/get handed two used all cleaned and ready to install I have to imagine you'd/anyone would do just what I did. Put the better one on the rear. But I have to agree, it is too much trouble. Thus I said and did just go ahead and put on the two new Fusions instead of the original intent, which was the point I made I thought.




> When I need tubeless tires I always buy them in multiples of three


Been doing that with regular tire for years. But @ the prices for tubeless compared to even the Pave Vitts I like and buy [on sale under 50]. It was not until these Fusions I seemed to get near the 53.00 each shipped I paid.


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## cooskull (Nov 30, 2013)

robt57 said:


> As I said, I got them used, the Atoms. So when you buy/get handed two used all cleaned and ready to install I have to imagine you'd/anyone would do just what I did.


Aye, that point was somehow lost on me @ Friday beer-thirty 

I hear you about the cost thing. At least there are several good tubeless tires to be had in the $50-60 price range now (Schwalbe Ones, IRC Roadlites, Maxxis Padrones). Still not as cheap as tubed clinchers, but getting more and more price competitive each year.


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## robt57 (Jul 23, 2011)

Next time please read and post 1/4 before beer 30, or something. 

Worst part is I had the tubeless wheels for 3 years before I got the used Atoms. 

I have since built up a few sets for my All Road CX grinder disc custom yada that are tubeless rims. Only one of those got tubeless only last weekend when I found a pair of WTB Nano 40C TCS for 75.00 for the pair shipped. I do have a 650B setup that the tubeless tires got tubes just to try out especially for fit in the above mentioned frame that are 650B 2.1. I got those for 15.00 each, which just never used to happen. I need to get busy setting them up properly.  They are a very tight fit on the above mentioned bike, so not in a hurry to use them off road exactly...

I gotta say I am liking all the tubeless thus far, albeit I am young in the experience.


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## warx (Aug 29, 2012)

The front tire IRC Roadlite finally (and gracefully) gave out at 3200 miles - dropping a few PSI per hour. Put the Schwalbe One 25c on. It is definitely narrower than the IRC but still measures 25.5mm on Ultregra tubeless rims (not particularly wide). The Schwalbes hold pressure much better - if that matters.

EDIT: re-reading my old post the IRC measured exactly the same at 25.5mm. No difference in width.


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## sneakyracer (Dec 1, 2007)

Stumpy2011 said:


> Looking for new Tubeless set.
> Currently I ride Hutchinson Intensives tubeless 25's which are really great.
> Got new set of wheels and looking for recommendations for tubeless tires.
> Does anybody have experience with the new Schwalbe one Tubeless or a good link of a review ?


The Schwalbe ONE is a much nicer tire. Comfortable, fast but still pretty puncture resistant. 

The Intensive is a heavier more commuter / touring oriented tire. It is heavier and less comfortable than the ONE's.


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## Srode (Aug 19, 2012)

I'm considering trying Schwalbe one's as a Winter tire - but a bit concerned how they will hold up with everyone reporting 1500 miles out of a rear - seems really low. Is that really what everyone is getting out of these? Also, have heard mixed reviews on wet weather performance. Am I better of staying with GP 4 Seasons?


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## cooskull (Nov 30, 2013)

Srode said:


> I'm considering trying Schwalbe one's as a Winter tire - but a bit concerned how they will hold up with everyone reporting 1500 miles out of a rear - seems really low. Is that really what everyone is getting out of these? Also, have heard mixed reviews on wet weather performance. Am I better of staying with GP 4 Seasons?


Mileage is all relative due to lots of factors, weight, inflation pressure, aggressiveness, road conditions, etc.... Yes I typically got about 1600 miles out of mine, but I only got maybe 2000 miles out of GP4000s for reference. The most I've gotten out of any (rear) tire was Maxxis Padrones tubeless @ 2200 miles.


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## Srode (Aug 19, 2012)

Thanks! How about performance on wet pavement vs GP 4 Seasons?


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## cooskull (Nov 30, 2013)

Srode said:


> Thanks! How about performance on wet pavement vs GP 4 Seasons?


I'd say the Ones do pretty well in wet weather, but my experience with riding them in wet conditions is very limited.


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## cannonf600 (Nov 9, 2008)

Loving my Tubeless One 25's with Orange seal.2,200 miles so far wit no flats and one front puncture that sealed and lost less than 5 psi.Running 65-90 psi and they ride very good with impressive traction even on wet roads.They weigh 350 grams and I am looking forward to trying out the Pro One when it comes out as the 25's are rumored to be 255 grams.I'm about 180 with gear and have ridden smooth and rough roads with them including gravel and dirt.


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## warx (Aug 29, 2012)

One thing I noticed is this weird thing on the rear 23c. Only 200 miles on it so far. Very weird. My 25c front does not have this going on.


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## Marc (Jan 23, 2005)

warx said:


> One thing I noticed is this weird thing on the rear 23c. Only 200 miles on it so far. Very weird. My 25c front does not have this going on.
> View attachment 309606


What tire pressure are you running that at?


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## warx (Aug 29, 2012)

This is my rear tire - 23c on wide HED + rim (25mm outer rim - and the 23c tire measures at 25.5mm). I am 175lb so run this at 98-100psi.

One thought is that the wide rim has the angle of the tire by the bead as a bit more open so perhaps that has strained that section. The wheel has a powertap hub so a bit harder to replace. I like the width and wish I could go wider by my Cannondale EVO frame is very limited in clearance. If I put a 25c tire on this rim it rubs a bit when I am out of the saddle on big efforts.

EDIT: I might put a 25c on the rear - it will be 27.5mm across and probably rub a tad - but really I was living with that for a while. I have a small sacrificial metal tape on the stays to protect the carbon gelcoat. It rubs such a small amount and just under high out-of-saddle efforts I don't think it's worth worrying about. It is very noticeable on adventure races (75% road 25% gravel/dirt) where the tire can pick up dirt and then rub.


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