# SL4, Venge, or SuperSix EVO



## pkucera (Jul 12, 2012)

Hopelessly obsessed with trying to make the best decision. Please help.

1.	Presently ride a 2012 Cannondale Hi-Mod 2 Red Synapse 56, exposed carbon. (Sweet ride, once kinks with Red FD got worked out; LBS installed ’12-’13 vintage FD with new Yaw capability, and it’s terrific.)

2.	Went through the Specialized BG FIT process, which btw I recommend.

3.	190 lbs, 6’0”, 49 year old, (male).

4.	Presently riding 50-100 miles per week. 50% mostly urban club riding in West-Suburban Chicago, 50% rouleur-type terrain solo around Geneva Lake, Wisconsin. Typical winds around the Lake meaningfully impact ride effort and times. Typically about 25 miles per ride, but expect to be rapidly (subject to length of season) extending them.

5.	Aspire to also do longer rides and centuries. One goal is to do a Notre Dame football game day group ride from Chicago to South Bend, Indiana; one way ride, about 90 miles.

6.	Former mountain biker who got out of cycling for a while. Getting back in as a committed roadie.

7.	** Looking for a second bike, to minimize moving one bike back and forth between Illinois and Wisconsin.** Wife’s idea, so jumping on the offer! 

8.	Went into the selection process believing I wanted a SuperSix EVO, based in part on my experience with the Synapse, EVO’s reputation, and partiality toward Cannondale. Demo’ed it, the Venge, and a couple other SuperSixes and Tarmacs (no SL4), and think I have it narrowed down to the Venge, SL4 (not having ridden it), and the EVO.

9.	Problem is: all demos so far have been on flat, city-of-Chicago streets, and I haven’t been very careful about riding on similar tire pressures. (Was sold on the Venge over the EVO after first and subsequent rides, then rode it again last night at 105psi and it was a different experience. Ride quality had more “texture,” shall we say ☺ .) Causing me to lean EVO at the moment.

10.	I have come away from the demos I have done, though, with a commitment to go with an Ultegra Di2 drive train on bike #2… whatever it turns out to be. It’s a little creepy, but it’s very compelling for all the reasons you know. I do a lot of shifting on the Geneva Lake loop, so it should be cool.

11.	I won’t bother repeating all the reviews of the Venge on this forum. Suffice to say, my experience parallels what most are saying about it. I found the EVO to be quicker off the line, its front end a little sketchy, and generally snappy (in a good way). Once Venge got up to speed, felt like it preferred to stay there; pretty stiff.

12.	My selection process is complicated by not knowing how the riding I am doing now in both locations (Chicago suburbs and Geneva Lake, WI) may change over time. If I knew for certain, based on what I’m doing today, the “Chicago bike” should be tuned for urban riding, quick off the line from frequent stops/slow downs for intersections… and the “Wisconsin bike” should be tuned for longer rides on the rollers. But I just can’t be certain things will be that cut and dried.

13.	And because of that, I sometimes think bike #2 should be an all-rounder, versus the Venge.

14.	The carbon Synapse has me covered on the endurance end of the scale, but not sure if it should live in Wisconsin or Chicago. It is not what I’d considered “snappy” in the same way as the EVO, but might be okay as the Chicago bike.

15.	Pretty certain I don’t want a second endurance bike, but I’m just not certain how much overlap or difference makes sense for the second arrow in the quiver to have. Seems like the Venge would be the furthest distance from the Synapse, with the EVO and the SL4 fitting more in between.

16.	Working with incomplete info, not having had a chance to demo the SL4. And the demos I have done have been good, but less than exhaustive.

17.	LBS is providing excellent info on why the bikes ride differently, but ultimately is selling me an experience. Ultimately up to me to decide on the experience I need (based on riding I will be doing) and want (subjective preferences).

18.	I’m a believer in: “it has more to do with the motor than the chassis.”

19.	I’ve internalized the guidance to: go with the option that makes you want to get out and ride it.

20.	Taking a risk that by posting this on the Specialized forum, I will get partisan bias toward one of those options. Maybe sub-consciously looking for someone to talk me out of the ’13 Ui2 EVO, which is the direction I’m currently leaning in. (Or if don’t get that bias, might validate the current lean.)

21.	Question becomes: Based on my experience, skill-level, and time in the saddle, am I over-thinking this? Am I splitting hairs?

22.	The penultimate question becomes: EVO, SL4, or Venge? :confused5:

For anyone making it through all that, thank you very much. If you have any helpful thoughts to share, I’d appreciate reading your perspective. Thanks again.


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## young-nyc (Oct 28, 2011)

not to add more deciding choices but have you also looked into the new 2013 SL4 Roubaix?
it's completely redesigned, and is as fast as a tarmac but more smoother, great for both urban and long distance riding, and races..

good luck!


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## Diopena1 (Jul 21, 2011)

I'm a bit biased, but went through this same process a year and a half ago. Except that the Venge was not available yet.
I took a Venge out for a test ride, and yes, its nice at speeds, but takes a bit of effort at first to get it up there. 
My riding style is a bit on the aggressive side, where being able to accelerate, and climb are mostly important. So, I stuck with my Cannondale Supersix Himod 2 (think your synapse with a bit more snappiness in the handling department). The Evo is an excellent choice, and pretty much on equal levels as the Venge, and SLR4. The Roubaix is nice also, so you may consider that option also.
In the end, stick to what feels best underneath you. Like I said I'm biased to Cannondale, but I know that an EVO may feel sketchy, my SS6 was like that, until I changed out some parts. Npw my dilema is that I'm getting more flexible, and may have to get a longer stem.... So definitely get fitted, its worth it.


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## Golfster (May 13, 2010)

If you live near Geneva, IL, the Specialized and Cannondale dealers are walking distance apart. You could always stop in Old Town and have a beverage at the end of demos of both and then allow one to rise to the top of your preference. 

Just based upon a quick review, it seems you want a second bike more than you want a specific bike. I've been there, with several on my target list, and not sure which to get. I think they are all nice bikes you are considering. The ride type might have an influence on the ultimate decision if it were me. 

My typical ride is 40 plus miles, often more, and I feel cheated when I go for a shorter ride. My favorite based on looks is the Venge, however, two Specialized dealers have steered me away from the Venge and more towards the SL4 Tarmac (or upcoming SL4 Roubaix), suggesting that I experience a better ride on either after the 25 mile mark. Interestingly, they both have the Venge in stock to sell, but their feedback has been consistent in this. On the other hand, I've heard Venge owners say it really isn't that bad. At 25+ miles, with a minimum of another 15 to 20 to go, I don't want "not that bad" and take that into consideration.

Between the SL4 and the EVO, that might be a tough call. Both are nice bikes, but I would probably lean towards the Spec. based on the bike that triggers me more in the looks department. The level bike and group sets would be a consideration, however. For Spec, on an S-Works, you get it all. Yet dropping down to the Pro, you get a mixed component set. I'm not wild about a "Red" described bike, with Force brakes (I'm sure they are fine), 2013 = different front d (no Yaw?), and maybe a mix of more. That may only sway me, and may be fine with others as I'm certain it is still a nice bike. It appears the Cannondales are more value priced for what you get and it seems to get great reviews.

So then it would be which strikes you best at the end of the day of rides. It may be the small details between the two that help you decide. Prefer internal cabling? Spec. Like a straight(er) top tube, C'dale. Is there a better fit between one and the other? And for me, the LBS of preference would come into play as you buy it only once, but who do you prefer to deal with and which do you feel will service you better? That may not matter to all, but it would sway me.

Good luck with your decision and enjoy the ride, be it in the 'burbs on in WI!


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## oldskoolm4 (Mar 14, 2009)

How often do you travel between the two places?


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## pkucera (Jul 12, 2012)

First want to say "*thank you *very much" for the insightful and unbiased feedback that's come in so far. All great stuff.

With respect to the comment about the buying process and after sale LBS relationship: could not agree more. Pardon if I'm somehow violating forum rules by mentioning my LBS by name, but it's the chain for four Kozy Cyclery stores in Chicago, IL. Just want to go on record that I have been deliriously pleased with the pre- and post-sale service I have received. I've been to each of their locations, and their staff is uniformly knowledgeable and committed to outstanding customer satisfaction. It's not in any way whatsoever that I'm in this decision loop on bike 2 because of something they are or aren't doing for me. No... I'm putting myself through this:idea:

As to how often I go up to WI? averages 2-3 times per month year round, more in summer, less in winter.


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## jnbrown (Dec 9, 2009)

I can think of only 2 reasons to get the Venge:

1. You care about shaving seconds off your ride time at the expense of comfort.
2. You really just want it.

I own a SL3 and like it so I think you would like the SL4.
I don't understand why you have not test ridden one yet, it should be very easy to do so.
I like the looks of EVO but never have ridden one so cannot comment.
If I were looking for new bike I would certainly consider it.
I second the suggestion of looking at the new Roubaix, it could provide more comfort and not slow you down. There many pros on all of these bikes and they are all good so I think it comes down to test rides and personal preference.


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## young-nyc (Oct 28, 2011)

Also keep in mind the SL4 Tarmac is unchanged and more than likely a SL5 version will be out next year, the 2013 roubaix is completely new and will remain unchanged for at least 2 years.


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## SpinninWheels (May 15, 2012)

I test rode an Evo SRAM Red for 4 days (very nice LBS!) before I bought my Venge (S-Works DA Di2). I also spent a few hours on a Tarmac SL4

Firstly, all great bikes.

By comparison The EVO has a very comfortable geometry, it responds to the slightest of rider input and is the type of bike you could ride all day every day.

The Venge requires a 'bit' more effort, puts your body in a more aggressive stance, but in my feeling was more rewarding to ride when you put the effort in.

The Tarmac SL4 (which I believe has the same geometry as the Venge) was more like the EVO than the Venge to ride.

In regards to the harshness of the rides they were all very close, and I think all very good rides despite the level of performance of these frames. I suggest some of the stories of the Venge shacking you back teeth loose are a little farfetched. I rode 165km last Saturday, with strong winds and some patchy roads and got off the bike feeling great other than a bit of a stiff neck.

If you are looking for a easy bike to ride fast go the Evo or SL4 (I preferred the Evo, but maybe that's because I spent a lot more time on it). If you want to be excited on (almost) every ride - the Venge is your weapon.

Either way you'll end up with a great piece of kit.


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## thumper8888 (Apr 7, 2009)

jnbrown said:


> I can think of only 2 reasons to get the Venge:
> 
> 1. You care about shaving seconds off your ride time at the expense of comfort.
> 2. You really just want it.
> ...


Not sure about pros on Roubaix.. its kind of true, and kind of not true. If you look at the geometry, the ones they ride are essentially SL3s or SL4s with Roubaix design bits tossed in for damping. In fact the geometry is more agressive than for Tarmacs on some of the Highroads team Roubaixs that have come on the market....


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## young-nyc (Oct 28, 2011)

I would like to see a comparison on this. Very interesting. 
So you're saying the pro team roubaixs have more aggressive geometry than tarmacs?




thumper8888 said:


> Not sure about pros on Roubaix.. its kind of true, and kind of not true. If you look at the geometry, the ones they ride are essentially SL3s or SL4s with Roubaix design bits tossed in for damping. In fact the geometry is more agressive than for Tarmacs on some of the Highroads team Roubaixs that have come on the market....


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## pkucera (Jul 12, 2012)

*Art and Science*

I really, really get into things that lie at the intersection of art and science. Whether it's a Formula 1 race car, a mechanical watch movement, or a high-end bike.

That passion, as it relates to bikes, stops short of wanting to buy a piece of rolling art. What I will end up buying will be: 1) a piece engineering and manufacturing craftsmanship that aligns with my riding goals and body geometry, that also; 2) just happens to look awesome (in my eyes, at least).

That said... at the risk of short changing myself on part 1), I just can’t get over the distinctively odd looks of the Zertz inserts on the Roubaix seat stays and fork.

Hard for me to overcome the visual distraction, even though the Roubaix may have potentially very attractive ride dynamics.


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## young-nyc (Oct 28, 2011)

to each his own...i actually find the zertz as a good aesthetic element on these bikes...


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## pkucera (Jul 12, 2012)

@young - I really appreciate your inputs to this thread. I think it (hopefully) makes the thread of more interest to more readers. I expect to be heading to LBS tomorrow and will look again at the Roubaix, based on your suggestions. Thanks again!


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## pkucera (Jul 12, 2012)

@young - Sorry, forgot, one more thing... Point taken with respect to the "SL5" Tarmac. Gotta believe that we will begin to see increasingly more models benefitting from the partnership with McLaren.


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## james_95 (Oct 13, 2010)

Of those choices I'd go for the SL4


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## scottma (May 18, 2012)

If you are thinking of a Roubaix, the 2013 SL4 is supposed to be really nice. The Zertz are also different.

http://www.bikerumor.com/2012/07/10...yclocross-womens-commuter-bikes-roubaix-disc/


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## young-nyc (Oct 28, 2011)

@pkucera, whichever bike you choose, it'll be a good one =)
goodluck once again and keep us in the loop.
btw, i'm not sure if the LBS has the 2013 roubaix's in stock yet


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## pkucera (Jul 12, 2012)

*Tarmac SL4 Di2 Ultegra Build Differences Between '12 and '13 Models*

As part of the reconnaissance I did at my LBS, I learned some things that seem to confirm what I inferred from things I read at Bike Rumor. If you’re considering an SL4 Tarmac with a Di2 Ultegra (aka Ui2) drive train, listen up:

For 2012, Ui2 is available on the PRO model. Among other Pro-level build items, the ’12 comes with Roval Fusse SL wheels.

For 2013, Ui2 is available on the EXPERT model. So you will get a lower build, among other things, DT Axis 4.0 wheels.

Both bikes use 10r carbon.

’12 Pro comes in White with Red, ’13 Expert comes in Matte Black with Grey and Red. (Might be other colors, but these for certain.)


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## young-nyc (Oct 28, 2011)

Yeah you are definitely correct on that,
I believe they are offering the Ui2 on the Expert models for 2013 to reduce the overall cost.
The expert model and pro model both come with full Ultegra components which is very very good.
The main difference will be the wheel sets for 2013.


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## Rob13 (Feb 26, 2012)

I have a 2012 project black Venge w/ new SRAM Red and a 2012 S-Works SL4 Di2. My recent bikes which are now sold were a Specialized S-Works SL3 w/ Red and a Supersix hi-mod Di2. Out of all the Bikes The Venge is more a pleasure to ride and choose to ride it 80% of the time. Both bikes are set up aggressive and measured to the t for my fit and to me I can't really tell the difference on the front end, but once I pick up speed the Venge is easier to maintain speeds over 20mph. My SL4 is about 9oz lighter then my Venge but it does not make lean choosing it over the Venge, Venge is just more exciting to ride. Can't really tell as far as comfort since both fits are exactly the same besides the saddles being different. Toupe pro on the Venge and Romin Pro on the SL4, I find the Toupe Pro more fitting to me. And to me New Red shifts faster in the rear than Di2. I can swipe once and clear 2-3 cogs at once where as the Di2 you must shift gear 1 at a time. But as far maintenance and set up Di2 trumps. It jus boils down how your set up is and componentry you choose. If I my set up of both bikes was the same, same fit, wheels and componentry, I might be singing a different tune. And it came down to looks....Venge all the way!


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## pkucera (Jul 12, 2012)

While waiting for LBS mechanic to do Red FD adjustment on Synapse earlier today, I test rode a ’12 SL4 Tarmac Pro Ui2 58 and a ’12 Supersix EVO DA 56 (my size), both with stock wheels and tires all at ~120psi.

... as close to an apples-to-apples comparison as I could make, though comparing a 58 to a 56 stretches the limits of apples to apples.

With the potentially significant caveat of the different frame sizes, I found:

1.	The EVO – as I had before when comparing it to the Venge – to be the snappier and quicker of the two leaving stop lights on the flats.

2.	The EVO to be sublimely more responsive to my inputs.

3.	The EVO to be more Porsche/Ferrari, the SL4 to be more Mercedes/Jaguar.

4.	Totally subjective, I prefer the Cannondale colors to the Specialized.

If I was shopping for a single, all-rounder, I’d likely go with a 56 (correct frame size) SL4. But since I have the HiMod Synapse to cover the Endurance end of the scale, I’ve at this point decided to go with the EVO as a better complement. Abstracting away (perhaps at the cost of later frustration) some of my location-related circumstances detailed in the original post, I think the EVO would be less overlap with the Synapse from a ride dynamics perspective. More arrow diversity in the quiver.

Thanks again to all those who have contributed to this thread. I hope others have (and other will continue to) benefit from the exchange.


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## pkucera (Jul 12, 2012)

As a tip of the hat to the Spesh Heads... I really love the Romin saddle I put on the Synapse (on conjunction with the BG FIT process I did). Will be making the same upgrade on the EVO.


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## smithers cycles (Aug 24, 2012)

young-nyc said:


> I would like to see a comparison on this. Very interesting.
> So you're saying the pro team roubaixs have more aggressive geometry than tarmacs?


I heard pros like Boonen have completly custom geometry roubaix frames to fit perfectly.


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## young-nyc (Oct 28, 2011)

smithers cycles said:


> I heard pros like Boonen have completly custom geometry roubaix frames to fit perfectly.


I guess if the geometry isn't too far off from the original S-Works consumer models, it should perform the same?


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## SPD877 (Sep 27, 2012)

Hey Fellas,
Just picked up my Evo Sram Red last night and went out for a nice 50k jaunt this morning. Before commenting on the bike i'll give you a brief history of myself as a cyclist. I have been working at a bike shop for 3 years now, we are a retailer for Cervelo and Giant. I have had the opportunity to ride many high end bicycles from R5's to TCR Advanced SL's. We service many affluent customer's who ride anything from Dogma's to Times and everything in between. I consider myself to be a competitive cyclist, racing Cat 4 last season and Cat 3 this season. I have been on a mission since April to find the perfect road bike for racing and hard training. Here are some of my conclusions about the different bikes I have been privileged to ride: (take into consideration that this is a totally unbiased commentary)

Time RXRS - very stiff end, takes some time to spin-up even with ZIPPS; harsh ride and heavy frame
TCR Avanced SL - very solid all arounder; tracks in corners, transfers power well and fairly compliant
R5 VWD - stiffest BB I have ever ridden, amazing power transfer, solid front end and excellent compliance
LOOK 695 - super rigid harsh ride quality; nice front end stiffness and cornering - takes forever to get get up to speed
Pinarello Paris - rides like WOOD; totally over rated in my opinion
VENGE - good lateral stiffness, decent compliance and solid front end for precise cornering
Tarmac SL3 - nice bb stifness, quick acceleration, agile in corners but not sketchy

And now for the EVO....

I was pleasantly surprised with the overall ride quality of the bike. The speed save design in the rear triangle gives the bike a smooth feel. Cornering is precise and requires very little rider feedback, its pretty much point and shoot. I was expecting the BB stiffness to be incredible, but was not overly impressed like I was when I rode the R5. I'm hoping its just the Red Crank and when I put my Hollowgram on things will stiffen up a bit. However, the bike is so light that after a few sprints it started growing on me. Overall I am happy with my purchase, but I cannot lie when I say the Cervelo R5 is the best bike I've ever ridden.


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## Dcasandman (Oct 13, 2012)

Good thread, I'm trying decide between these right now. Been to LBS a hundred times already. Right now my only bike is a project one speed concept.


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## stom (Oct 22, 2012)

Great thread! I enjoyed reading it.


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## jnbrown (Dec 9, 2009)

I will agree on the R5. Did a short test ride a few years ago and my impression was that it was a very stiff bike overall. Thought the ride was a little harsh but not too bad. Ended up with a Tarmac SL3.


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