# Help with improving cadence



## Phatz85 (Sep 19, 2011)

I am looking for advice on how to improve/increase my cadence.I generaly ride in the low to mid 80's,and I struggle in wind and on long climbs..I feel as though I have good leg strength as i can easily ride at 20-24 mph on level ground with little wind and I can climb shorter steeper hills fairly well.I have been trying to ride at higher cadence for stretches on my rides (95 rpms) but i cant do it for long..Today I tried riding in the smaller chainring(compact with 11-28 rear)for my entire ride 39 miles today and I am shot..Today was my first ride using a heart rate monitor and my average was 166 with a max of 184.I am 42 years old and that seems to be high using the generic formula.So should I stick to high cadence intervals or suck it up and try to ride my entire rides at a high cadence even though my mph will suffer .Thanks


----------



## framesti (Jan 26, 2009)

maybe high cadence is not your ideal cadence. there is no official cadence.


----------



## froze (Sep 15, 2002)

If you're cruising at low to mid 80's that's pretty good. Some people can naturally spin at high levels others are mashers and it's like that in the Pro ranks as well. If you want to ride at higher rpms I wouldn't jump from the low to mid 80's to trying to do mid 90's, that's too much of a leap. You need to try to ride consistently at the mid to high 80's for a awhile till you get use to it, then try the high 80's to the low 90's. I think I remember reading the average cadence of a TDF rider on flat ground was 90, but you and I aren't pros so there's no need to push ourselves to those limits; there are plenty of pros who pedal lower then that 90 average. But if you're dead set on getting those RPM's up then do it in stages and it will be easier. Like one poster said, some people can't naturally do higher cadences, but you need to practice in stages, if after practicing at a stage for awhile and it still doesn't work for you then step back a stage and leave it at that.


----------



## Kerry Irons (Feb 25, 2002)

*Training*



Phatz85 said:


> I am looking for advice on how to improve/increase my cadence.I generaly ride in the low to mid 80's,and I struggle in wind and on long climbs..I feel as though I have good leg strength as i can easily ride at 20-24 mph on level ground with little wind and I can climb shorter steeper hills fairly well.I have been trying to ride at higher cadence for stretches on my rides (95 rpms) but i cant do it for long..Today I tried riding in the smaller chainring(compact with 11-28 rear)for my entire ride 39 miles today and I am shot..Today was my first ride using a heart rate monitor and my average was 166 with a max of 184.I am 42 years old and that seems to be high using the generic formula.So should I stick to high cadence intervals or suck it up and try to ride my entire rides at a high cadence even though my mph will suffer .Thanks


The way to train for higher cadence is to do short (5-10 minutes) periods at a high cadence that you can just sustain. Focus on relaxing while doing this, though it will seem difficult to do. Also focus on "pedalling circles" where you have a smooth feeling that your feet are moving in a relaxed circle. It will take a few weeks or maybe even months but you will find it easier and easier to ride at higher cadences.

Many people will say that there is no point in high cadence (90-100 rpm) but if this is the case, why do nearly all experienced riders develop that high cadence as they build skills? In fact, being able to spin is a basic skill of cycling and just like skills in other sports, most people have to train themselves.


----------



## froze (Sep 15, 2002)

Kerry Irons said:


> The way to train for higher cadence is to do short (5-10 minutes) periods at a high cadence that you can just sustain. Focus on relaxing while doing this, though it will seem difficult to do. Also focus on "pedalling circles" where you have a smooth feeling that your feet are moving in a relaxed circle. It will take a few weeks or maybe even months but you will find it easier and easier to ride at higher cadences.
> 
> Many people will say that there is no point in high cadence (90-100 rpm) but if this is the case, why do nearly all experienced riders develop that high cadence as they build skills? In fact, being able to spin is a basic skill of cycling and just like skills in other sports, most people have to train themselves.


Nearly all is the key word, but some have a naturally lower cadence Like Jan Ullrich who in all of his races averages between 65 and 70rpm. Here's an interesting read about cadence: The Why, How, Pros, and Cons of High and Low Cadence Bicycling


----------



## Kerry Irons (Feb 25, 2002)

*Source*



froze said:


> Jan Ullrich who in all of his races averages between 65 and 70rpm.


I would question those numbers. I agree that he climbed at that cadence, but I would have to see a reference to agree that he was at 70 rpm on the flats.


----------



## Alex_Simmons/RST (Jan 12, 2008)

Kerry Irons said:


> I would question those numbers. I agree that he climbed at that cadence, but I would have to see a reference to agree that he was at 70 rpm on the flats.


All the "Lance was high cadence, Jan was low cadence" talk was just a load of over hyped commentator nonsense.

Any viewing of both riders in a TT on the same part of a course with a stopwatch in hand will show how they actually rode.


----------



## Alex_Simmons/RST (Jan 12, 2008)

Phatz85 said:


> I am looking for advice on how to improve/increase my cadence.I generaly ride in the low to mid 80's,and I struggle in wind and on long climbs..I feel as though I have good leg strength as i can easily ride at 20-24 mph on level ground with little wind and I can climb shorter steeper hills fairly well.I have been trying to ride at higher cadence for stretches on my rides (95 rpms) but i cant do it for long..Today I tried riding in the smaller chainring(compact with 11-28 rear)for my entire ride 39 miles today and I am shot..Today was my first ride using a heart rate monitor and my average was 166 with a max of 184.I am 42 years old and that seems to be high using the generic formula.So should I stick to high cadence intervals or suck it up and try to ride my entire rides at a high cadence even though my mph will suffer .Thanks


Focus on intensity/effort and duration, and choose a gear that feels good. As fitness (sustainable power) improves, so cadence will increase with it.


----------



## froze (Sep 15, 2002)

Kerry Irons said:


> I would question those numbers. I agree that he climbed at that cadence, but I would have to see a reference to agree that he was at 70 rpm on the flats.


Instead of just going around doubting what people say, why not to the research yourself then post doubts if you find conflicting info? So here is your homework done for you! The Why, How, Pros, and Cons of High and Low Cadence Bicycling


----------



## Alex_Simmons/RST (Jan 12, 2008)

froze said:


> Instead of just going around doubting what people say, why not to the research yourself then post doubts if you find conflicting info? So here is your homework done for you! The Why, How, Pros, and Cons of High and Low Cadence Bicycling


You homework is to research and report back why much of that item is irrelevant or nonsense. You might _trust _a random item on the internet, but did you _verify _the claims made?

e.g
- grab a video of Jan's TTs and measure his cadence.

- the study quoted in that has a conclusion not supported by the data. They confuse correlation and causation. What's most ironic is they measured and reported on power output, which is far more important wrt performance yet failed to recognise that's what was determining performance outcomes.


----------



## den bakker (Nov 13, 2004)

froze said:


> Instead of just going around doubting what people say, why not to the research yourself then post doubts if you find conflicting info? So here is your homework done for you! The Why, How, Pros, and Cons of High and Low Cadence Bicycling


you mean this?


----------



## froze (Sep 15, 2002)

den bakker said:


> you mean this?


That proved absolutely nothing about cadence. Nice video though. I was surprise to see quite a few riders without helmets.


----------



## ZoSoSwiM (Mar 7, 2008)

There is nothing wrong with trying to increase your range of comfort in different cadence zones. However don't try to increase your cadence because others ride higher. I know from past experience that I'm most comfortable around 90-95. Considering my average cadence last year was 93. However I'm still comfortable spinning at 100-105 when needed. When my cadence drops below 70 I fall apart. I've had to train myself to be more comfortable riding at lower cadences so when the course dictates it I can respond. 

You should try smoothing out your pedaling action.. Practice with some 1 legged drills for a few weeks. Consciously try to pedal just a bit faster, maybe 5rpms. See how it feels after a while. If you body naturally wants to pedal at 84rpm then chances are you will average around that number regardless.


----------



## den bakker (Nov 13, 2004)

froze said:


> That proved absolutely nothing about cadence.


no? 
ok I have to find random statements on the internet instead of counting for 10-15 seconds then. Did you notice the huge difference in cadence between e.g. mayo and ullrich? neither did I.


----------



## OwegoRoadie (Dec 5, 2011)

try taking a few spin classes, or just find a stationary bike with a heavy flywheel. focus on increasing RPM at low resistance without bouncing. after a few weeks of that you will be much more comfortable at higher cadence. like others have said, though, your most natural cadence is probably the one you're pedaling at right now.

I typically find myself around 90-95rpm on my bike, but I'm perfectly happy to pedal along at 110 or 80 if the situation calls for it.


----------



## froze (Sep 15, 2002)

den bakker said:


> no?
> ok I have to find random statements on the internet instead of counting for 10-15 seconds then. Did you notice the huge difference in cadence between e.g. mayo and ullrich? neither did I.


You can't take an action sequence where all the riders are straining and say that's their average!!! Get real man. Their not going to strain like that for 100 plus miles!!! If that video was only a video of Ulrich uncut for 2 plus hours and showed him doing that the whole time then your point would have been well taken, but not a short cut up film showing scenes of action. The info I posted came from his handlers reports, I'll go with that thank you very much. And just so you know, he's not the only pro rider that has lower average cadences.


----------



## 55x11 (Apr 24, 2006)

Alex_Simmons/RST said:


> All the "Lance was high cadence, Jan was low cadence" talk was just a load of over hyped commentator nonsense.
> 
> Any viewing of both riders in a TT on the same part of a course with a stopwatch in hand will show how they actually rode.


differences were much smaller than reported (some people like to think Lance was 110+ rpm while Ullrich was at 60-70rpm), but the difference was definitely there, especially on the climbs. I suspect it was closer to 105 vs. 90 rpm or something like that.


----------



## iheartbenben (Mar 18, 2011)

55x11 said:


> differences were much smaller than reported (some people like to think Lance was 110+ rpm while Ullrich was at 60-70rpm), but the difference was definitely there, especially on the climbs. I suspect it was closer to 105 vs. 90 rpm or something like that.


105 vs 90 rpm is a hell of a gap in the legs. 15 rpm you can feel the difference in those ranges.


----------



## Alex_Simmons/RST (Jan 12, 2008)

55x11 said:


> differences were much smaller than reported (some people like to think Lance was 110+ rpm while Ullrich was at 60-70rpm), but the difference was definitely there, especially on the climbs. I suspect it was closer to 105 vs. 90 rpm or something like that.


TdF 2003 individual TT. Lance v. Jan

Tour de France 2003 - Jan Ullrich time trial - YouTube

See video from 2:40 - shows Lance pedaling. 
20 strokes in 12.4 seconds (97rpm)

immediately after that at 3:12 show Jan just up ahead on same road. 
20 strokes in 11.5 seconds (104rpm)

So who exactly was the slower pedaler?

Like I said, it's mythology.


----------



## froze (Sep 15, 2002)

Alex_Simmons/RST said:


> TdF 2003 individual TT. Lance v. Jan
> 
> Tour de France 2003 - Jan Ullrich time trial - YouTube
> 
> ...


Yup, and according to that same mythology the video proves that Ullrich is the better rider then Armstrong...that worked out real well.


----------



## den bakker (Nov 13, 2004)

Alex_Simmons/RST said:


> TdF 2003 individual TT. Lance v. Jan
> 
> Tour de France 2003 - Jan Ullrich time trial - YouTube
> 
> ...


give it up, you could bring Ullrich over to the doorstep and in person say what his cadence was and it would not chance a thing.


----------



## Johnpembo73 (Jul 28, 2011)

A good way to increase your cadence is the warm up on the Sufferfest Angels video.
If you do this before your ride of the day, you will gradually run up a higher cadence.

I have used this in my training program as well as interval training, my cadence is rising slowly whilst keeping my HR the same. At first my HR would increase but practising breathing and holding your core correctly does help a lot.

My average ride cadence for this year has risen to 85 up by 3 on the last three months from 2011. Might not seem much but it does help on those hills.


----------



## Schmack (Mar 25, 2009)

Winter is a great time to work on higher cadence. As others have said, work on increasing in small increaments. If you neutral pedal is around 85, try riding at 90 for a while. Keep the tension light so you can concentrate on your stroke and form. Over time, you can increase where you are comfortable. Can't say what is best for you though, you need to figure this out.

However, one negative aspect is a decrease in power over time. This is just my experience, so take that for what it is worth. When I worked on raising my cadence, I was able to recover faster and ride longer at a higher pace. However, I feel like I had less power. Noticed I would run out of gears quicker on climbs. Now I try to include some lower cadence, higher tension, workouts in my routine.


----------

