# 2017 Roubaix



## Devastazione

- no more Zertz inserts.
- CG R seat post will be more vertically flexy.
- head tube will have a sort of suspension built into it.

That's all I know,reliable sources.


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## Steenerk

Devastazione said:


> - no more Zertz inserts.
> - CG R seat post will be more vertically flexy.
> - head tube will have a sort of suspension built into it.
> 
> That's all I know,reliable sources.


Any info about the cgr fork legs

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## Roland44

Devastazione said:


> - no more Zertz inserts.
> - CG R seat post will be more vertically flexy.
> - head tube will have a sort of suspension built into it.
> 
> That's all I know,reliable sources.


Sounds good, I guess we will have to wait and see...


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## Devastazione

Update : 

front end suspension can be bypassed/locked on with the purchase of a separate kit ( wich I'm sure Specialized will charge the equivalent of a kidney for )


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## Russlite

Also, Tarmac geometry. Should be interesting.


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## Katy Trail B

When is the official release date?


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## puddlep1rate

If this is accurate, I can't help but wonder if they plan on eventually phasing out zertz for all models.


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## TmB123

Was it you that posted a photo of an S-Works Diverge (i think) that had the suspension in the dropouts?


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## Devastazione

TmB123 said:


> Was it you that posted a photo of an S-Works Diverge (i think) that had the suspension in the dropouts?


That was supposed to be a Diverge prototype from a while ago I guess,but I bet that was a 2017 Roubaix hint. I mean..Zertz out,suspensions in ?


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## TmB123

Devastazione said:


> That was supposed to be a Diverge prototype from a while ago I guess,but I bet that was a 2017 Roubaix hint. I mean..Zertz out,suspensions in ?


yeah, that's kinda where I was going with that, wondering if it was a Roubaix, or Diverge, or a bit of both, looked interesting though


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## BluesDawg

Makes sense that there are new models with a new frame coming. The only 2017 Roubaix models currently in the catalog or on the dealer website are 3 SL4 models; SL4 Comp UDI2, SL4 Sport and SL4 (base). Looking forward to the reveal.


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## Steenerk

TmB123 said:


> Was it you that posted a photo of an S-Works Diverge (i think) that had the suspension in the dropouts?


Was that pic of the forks with the cgr dropouts? I remember seeing the patent specs for it.

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## TmB123

Steenerk said:


> Was that pic of the forks with the cgr dropouts? I remember seeing the patent specs for it.
> 
> Sent from my Nexus 6P using Tapatalk


I'm actually not 100% sure now, it was a while ago and not sure if I'm jumbling together the picture of the new S-Works bike (it was some sort of prototype, think it was at Specialized HQ?) and the specs I had seen at another time for the weird dropout suspension arrangement and disc brake mount.


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## dcorn

Russlite said:


> Also, Tarmac geometry. Should be interesting.


So they are getting rid of their endurance road bike entry? What's the point of 3 bikes with the same geometry?


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## PJ352

dcorn said:


> So they are getting rid of their endurance road bike entry? What's the point of 3 bikes with the same geometry?


Based on the 2017 S-Works Tarmac eTap I wouldn't count on changes to Tarmacs geo.

https://specialized.com/us/en/bikes/road/sworks-tarmac-di2/115701


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## dcorn

PJ352 said:


> Based on the 2017 S-Works Tarmac eTap I wouldn't count on changes to Tarmacs geo.
> 
> https://specialized.com/us/en/bikes/road/sworks-tarmac-di2/115701


If the Roubaix now has the Tarmac geometry, that would now make the Tarmac, Roubaix, Venge and Allez all the same, correct?


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## tyrich88

dcorn said:


> If the Roubaix now has the Tarmac geometry, that would now make the Tarmac, Roubaix, Venge and Allez all the same, correct?


The smartweld allez is going to all be the allez sprint frames now from what i understand. And geo is slightly different on those from the tarmac.


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## mojo21136

Devastazione said:


> That was supposed to be a Diverge prototype from a while ago I guess,but I bet that was a 2017 Roubaix hint. I mean..Zertz out,suspensions in ?


Is the picture still available online? I'd be interested in seeing what the new fork might look like.


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## Steenerk

mojo21136 said:


> Is the picture still available online? I'd be interested in seeing what the new fork might look like.


Here's the article from bike rumor http://www.bikerumor.com/2015/01/06/specialized-patents-cobble-gobbling-suspension-cyclocross-fork/

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## TmB123

This is the picture that I was thinking about, it doesn't have the cg-r dropouts (i have to wonder how that handles the braking force of a disc brake without getting all twisted up) but does have a rear suspension - as far as ai know this is just a concept, not a production model


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## Steenerk

TmB123 said:


> This is the picture that I was thinking about, it doesn't have the cg-r dropouts (i have to wonder how that handles the braking force of a disc brake without getting all twisted up) but does have a rear suspension - as far as ai know this is just a concept, not a production model


May as well buy a mountain bike.

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## mile2424

Guessing that's a Robert Egger concept bike since it says Scrambled Egger below it


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## tyrich88

mile2424 said:


> Guessing that's a Robert Egger concept bike since it says Scrambled Egger below it


That is just a concept. It's in their room full of concept bikes. I believe the fUCI is in there as well.


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## Steenerk

I just looked on Specs website. Shows a few new Roubiaxs. Nothing different than last year's models. They look like the lower end versions. Judging by the model number they are the 17's.

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## tyrich88

Steenerk said:


> I just looked on Specs website. Shows a few new Roubiaxs. Nothing different than last year's models. They look like the lower end versions. Judging by the model number they are the 17's.
> 
> Sent from my Nexus 6P using Tapatalk


From everything I've seen it looks like it will be similar to the new tarmacs release a while back and be a new frame design from the expert model up to sworks. Below the expert level is the same SL4 frame as before.


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## taodemon

tyrich88 said:


> From everything I've seen it looks like it will be similar to the new tarmacs release a while back and be a new frame design from the expert model up to sworks. Below the expert level is the same SL4 frame as before.


I imagine it is just their typical website typo's but the newer bikes for the lower end models are listing the frames as 10r carbon vs last years 8r for the same level bikes.


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## Devastazione

And so it begins. And it looks Viasfugly...

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## TmB123

My LBS posted that pic up on instagram last week. I noticed 3 water bottle bosses on the downtube, wasn't sure if Roubaix or Diverge.


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## Devastazione

I bet my Sworks that seat collar is sealing some sort of suspension..


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## TmB123

I would say that your S-Works is probably safe


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## jacksdad

My new roubaix sport is indeed 10r Carbon.


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## Stumpjumper FSR

jacksdad said:


> My new roubaix sport is indeed 10r Carbon.


So you bought a 2017?


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## jacksdad

Sorry to confuse, was responding to comment on carbon type. Mine is the old model (though new color scheme just put up on website).


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## Stumpjumper FSR

jacksdad said:


> Sorry to confuse, was responding to comment on carbon type. Mine is the old model (though new color scheme just put up on website).


Interesting, the 2016 SL4 Sport is advertised as 8r carbon, the 2017 is 10r.
Are you sure yours is 10r?


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## jacksdad

Stumpjumper FSR said:


> Interesting, the 2016 SL4 Sport is advertised as 8r carbon, the 2017 is 10r.
> Are you sure yours is 10r?



Yep, it's right on the chainstay.

When i ordered it the shop owner noticed the website was inconsistent on this. I assumed i was getting 8r but was happy to see 10r on the bike. Mine is the newer color scheme but is most definitely not a redesigned frame. Makes me wonder if only the upper model Roubaix will have the new frame.


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## Stumpjumper FSR

jacksdad said:


> Yep, it's right on the chainstay.
> 
> When i ordered it the shop owner noticed the website was inconsistent on this. I assumed i was getting 8r but was happy to see 10r on the bike. Mine is the newer color scheme but is most definitely not a redesigned frame. Makes me wonder if only the upper model Roubaix will have the new frame.


That's a 2017. Yes just the upper models will have the new frame design, the lower end will have the SL4 frames.


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## Rashadabd

Here's the clearest pic they have released yet:

https://instagram.com/p/BJIWtEohPhL/

From Specialized UK instagram


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## Rashadabd

As of right now, my feeling is meh... I am more impressed by the Focus Paralane I learned a bunch about this weekend at the moment (unless they are hiding some spectacular features in those shadows). 

Focus - Bikes: PARALANE Launch

First ride: Focus Paralane disc-equipped endurance bike | road.cc


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## tyrich88

Rashadabd said:


> Here's the clearest pic they have released yet:
> 
> https://instagram.com/p/BJIWtEohPhL/
> 
> From Specialized UK instagram


Good pic! Thanks for posting! 
I'm surprised they posted that clear of a pic this early.


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## Rashadabd

tyrich88 said:


> Good pic! Thanks for posting!
> I'm surprised they posted that clear of a pic this early.


No problem, me too.


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## young-nyc

View attachment 315673

here's one brightened up


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## Rashadabd

young-nyc said:


> View attachment 315673
> 
> here's one brightened up


We can't see it. The attachment didn't work.


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## Rashadabd

Another clear pic (front):

https://instagram.com/p/BJI1DMMDc9Y/


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## tyrich88

Rashadabd said:


> Another clear pic (front):
> 
> https://instagram.com/p/BJI1DMMDc9Y/


What's the deal with all the new riser bars? 
Venge, Sequoia and now the roubaix...


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## Rashadabd

tyrich88 said:


> What's the deal with all the new riser bars?
> Venge, Sequoia and now the roubaix...


I have the same question. I really don't like the look of them much. That being said, my guess is that the answer goes something like "...improved aerodynamics...blah blah blah....Win Tunnel.... blah blah blah...."


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## NealH

It also effectively changes the head tube length with choice of bars. Reminds me a little of the FSA K-Wing bars in a way. You can get a tall head tube, or a short head tube without a frame change. Of course I am assuming Spec will offer a couple different bars. But overall it seems clever to me. We will see in short order as the new model introductions are not far away.


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## TmB123

Sucks if you want to put different bars on it though


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## MMsRepBike

Rashadabd said:


> I have the same question. I really don't like the look of them much. That being said, my guess is that the answer goes something like "...improved aerodynamics...blah blah blah....Win Tunnel.... blah blah blah...."



Correct.

The reason a -17 degree stem is 100% mandatory on the new venge, and therefore the reason the riser bars exist is aerodynamics. As I've been saying for years here, the cockpit setup on a bike is the most important part of the frame aerodynamics. 

Spec. found out in their tunnel that any stem that's above horizontal destroys the aerodynamics. Furthermore, anything above the top cap above the stem horizontally does the same. Picture a garmin that points up instead of down or level in front of the bars. The highest frontal point has to be the top of the stem top cap, everything has to be below it vertically.

They cannot sell the Venge with anything else but a -17 or their marketing claims would be completely ruined, that's how important it is. Seeing it on the Roubaix though... this just tells me they're idiots, but I already knew that. And actually seeing it on the Roubaix now leads me to believe they're going to try the same marketing scam again about saving x seconds or minutes or whatever...


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## taodemon

I'm not sure I follow, you are agreeing that the cockpit is important to aerodynamics but saying that they are idiots for doing the same thing on the roubaix? 

Is it because of aero being on an endurance bike or something else I'm missing?

https://instagram.com/p/BJI_fUIh-VV/


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## MMsRepBike

What I'm saying is that it's a mistake to begin with.

Unless of course you think it looks good.

The point is that it's ugly as ****, it makes the bike look disgusting. They did it because they had to for marketing. Now they're doing it again. For marketing again? Or are they trying to force the aesthetic out there to try to make it grow on people? It's still ugly.

How many people do you know that will buy an ugly bike to supposedly save a couple seconds on a TT... on their endurance/rough terrain bike?

The design has made the Venge a laughing stock of the industry.


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## taodemon

I'm not fond of the look either but why would they have intentionally made it uglier in the first place if it wasn't for aerodynamics or had no bearing on it? The new madone has an integrated cockpit where the stem/bars angle looks similar but limited in fit to only adding spacers or frames with different geometry (h1 vs h2). 

I agree that a few seconds on the cockpit is questionable on a bike not designed for aerodynamics in the first place though. In the side picture the stem doesn't look to be inverted though so maybe they are finding that the riser bars are visually pleasing to enough people to throw them on more bikes?


For me the issues with the VIAS had little to do with its visuals, and more to do with the sacrifices it made for aerodynamics in terms of added weight and braking issues.


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## ToiletSiphon

I actually like it... 
Looks like they also put a system very similar to the new Domane up front 

Envoyé de mon XT1563 en utilisant Tapatalk


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## dcorn

The more I read about the Roubaix, the more I realize I really don't care because I'll never buy one. I'm guessing most people in this thread think the same thing, but they just want to see something new (or hate on specialized).


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## Rashadabd

The last bike I bought was an Allez Sprint, so I am definitely not a Specialized hater. However, I guess my thoughts on the issue as of right now are that I don't see how this is a game changer right now. We don't have the full details yet, but I feel comfortable saying that the new Focus Paralane and BMC Roadmachine are at least as good. Maybe I'm wrong and maybe this seatpost technology, the new tube shapes, and the new handlebar system are eye openers that make us all rethink endurance race/adventure bikes, but I kind of doubt it. 

I also think the Allez Sprint and the Tarmac are their best bikes currently and like every other road model took a step backward when compared to what their competitors have done. I like the brake setup on the new VIAS, but the weight is an issue at that price (particularly when you consider the weight of bikes like the new Trek Madone and Scott Foil). I like the price of the eTap Tarmac, but you could almost buy the frameset and an eTap set yourself and spend about the same to build the bike....and if you are doing that, there are other comparable framesets that are significantly cheaper (like the Giant TCR Advanced Pro, Trek Emonda, Fuji SL, etc.). 

Moreover, I kind of feel like they are overemphasizing the impact aerodynamics has on performance bikes. I openly admit that it could just be me, but the whole aero thing is starting to feel very sales pitchy, overemphasized, and less scientific and properly incorporated (at least form my lay perspective). I guess I still stand by the fact that, outside of time trialists and triathletes, I've never heard a serious racer at any level say they won or lost a race because of how aero their frameset was or wasn't, nor have I ever heard a serious recreational cyclist say they enjoyed or benefited from riding less because they did not have an aero frameset, so I guess I approach these ads with a certain degree of skepticism that may or may not be warranted because I believe some of this matters more in a wind tunnel than it does out on an open road. I guess we can all make up our minds September 9th after we have all of the facts though.


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## krtassoc

https://i.imgur.com/k49JiKal.png


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## krtassoc

*2017 Roubaix Pics!*



krtassoc said:


> https://i.imgur.com/k49JiKal.png


https://www.reddit.com/r/bicycling/comments/4y11eh/pictures_of_the_2017_specialized_roubaix_thats/


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## lostPixels

Woh, my post got deleted that contained the brightened up pic THAT THEY RELEASED. It wasn't a leak, it was literally from their instagram. 

None of the juicy details about the new Roubaix are going to be found here because this is being actively moderated


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## krtassoc

lostPixels said:


> Woh, my post got deleted that contained the brightened up pic THAT THEY RELEASED. It wasn't a leak, it was literally from their instagram.
> 
> None of the juicy details about the new Roubaix are going to be found here because this is being actively moderated


Here you go!

https://i.imgur.com/k49JiKal.png

Imgur: The most awesome images on the Internet


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## mile2424

Looks like a Tarmac front end with the updated rear suspension geometry or whatever is going on. 

Like others have said, I don't really get the aero gains on what's suppose to be a relaxed geometry cobble grinder. If they want to make an aero and comfortable road bike, this should be the tarmac.

In regards to the bars, I don't love how the riser bars look on most bikes, I actually think they look best on the allez sprint bikes from the red hook crit. I don't mind the stem and cockpit on my vias, but only with the flat bars. Maybe I am the minority, but I still think the Vias looks more like a Formula 1 car with proprietary parts, etc. The Tarmac is your Porsche 911, comfortable but also a great all around race car on the track. The Roubaix you would think is a Mercedes sedan, something very comfortable to cruise around in and can go fast when you need to.

I have seen pics of the Venge Vias Disc with a normal stem and bars and it actually looks kinda funny to me. Maybe it was the spec and size of the bike that looked off. 

With all that being said, I am sure if you give a new Roubaix to Sagan, he is still going to win some races on it.


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## Rashadabd

for those that are interested, there is a new pic of the front end up on Specialized's instagram accounts today... Headtube looks very much like an elongated version of the current Tarmac setup.


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## Devastazione

What if this is not the new Roubaix afterall but another bike invented to fill another invented niche ? 
There is no sign whatsoever of wannabe suspension or vibration dampers,or at least the picture is purposely made to deceive the whole thing. The new Roubaix is the bike that must compete with the new Domane and it's funky rheostat like rear suspension tuner...
Either way I don't like it,front end reminds me of the Cannondale Synapse,skinny fork included.


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## jacksdad

that's a Roubaix seatpost for sure.

of course i've wondered how a Tarmac would feel with that seatpost on it.


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## Katy Trail B

jacksdad said:


> that's a Roubaix seatpost for sure.
> 
> of course i've wondered how a Tarmac would feel with that seatpost on it.



I have wondered the same thing!! I will have to check out this new Roubaix in person but as of right now, not liking it.


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## young-nyc

seems like it also has the gullwing handlebar.
I wonder if the pro level version will offer etap or di2? the current tarmac pro is di2

https://www.instagram.com/p/BJI_fUIh-VV/


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## MMsRepBike

jacksdad said:


> that's a Roubaix seatpost for sure.
> 
> of course i've wondered how a Tarmac would feel with that seatpost on it.












Best soft-riding rigid seatposts for road, dirt, and gravel - BikeRadar USA

It's proven to be not much more than a weird design. Not much compliance at all.


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## TmB123

jacksdad said:


> that's a Roubaix seatpost for sure.


not just for the Roubaix, they sell it on the Diverge as well, and as noted, apparently it doesn't do much (although that depends on exposed post length a little). I have one on my Diverge Pro which is definitley a more plush ride than my S-Works SL4 Roubaix, but that may also be down to the 28mm tyres Im running at lower pressure.


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## Steenerk

I put one in my Roubaix, absolutely love it. For me it really dampens the vibrations. On real hard bumps it does seem to throw you forward, only downside I've noticed with it. 

The Crux have the c-gr post as well.


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## Dunbar

Steenerk said:


> I put one in my Roubaix, absolutely love it. For me it really dampens the vibrations. On real hard bumps it does seem to throw you forward, only downside I've noticed with it.


I've swapped the CG-R post out on my Roubaix SL4 and I can't stand the ride anymore (too harsh.) The CG-R definitely works but I wish they'd built more compliance into the rear triangle of the new Roubaix. The CG-R only comes with 25mm of setback which limits fit options. I like the adjustability of the Trek Domane SLR and the frame price is pretty reasonable compared to what the complete bikes sell for.


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## TmB123

Dunbar said:


> I've swapped the CG-R post out on my Roubaix SL4 and I can't stand the ride anymore (too harsh.) The CG-R definitely works but I wish they'd built more compliance into the rear triangle of the new Roubaix. The CG-R only comes with 25mm of setback which limits fit options. I like the adjustability of the Trek Domane SLR and the frame price is pretty reasonable compared to what the complete bikes sell for.


From my experience the CG-R post has TOO MUCH setback. On nearly every bike I have seen the saddle is pushed forwards as far as it will go. I couldn't use on on my Roubaix as too much setback for my fit. Kept it on the Diverge, but fit is marginal, got the saddle a little lower to compensate.


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## puddlep1rate

Does anyone know if the ruby is also getting a frame update also since this is supposed to be the female versions of the roubaix?


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## Devastazione

TmB123 said:


> From my experience the CG-R post has TOO MUCH setback. On nearly every bike I have seen the saddle is pushed forwards as far as it will go. I couldn't use on on my Roubaix as too much setback for my fit. Kept it on the Diverge, but fit is marginal, got the saddle a little lower to compensate.


I agree. I've replicated my Tarmac's exact fit on the Diverge and I was hoping for a more comfortable position thanks to the talle HT but it did not work. I understand this may be the excessive setback from the CGR. I don't want to lower the saddle but I'll most likely add a spacer under the stem. The position is ok,but I tend to leave my hands too much on the bars rather than the hoods.


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## TmB123

Devastazione said:


> I agree. I've replicated my Tarmac's exact fit on the Diverge and I was hoping for a more comfortable position thanks to the talle HT but it did not work. I understand this may be the excessive setback from the CGR. I don't want to lower the saddle but I'll most likely add a spacer under the stem. The position is ok,but I tend to leave my hands too much on the bars rather than the hoods.


The thing with more setback than what you should have is that you are further behind the BB. If you lower the saddle to accomodate you end up with different knee angles etc as well as different weight distribution and that can just mess everything up. When I had my BG fit on the Roubaix it had a CG-R post on it and could not get the saddle far enough forwards. Funny thing was I still ended up with a setback post, just that it wasn't as setback as the CG-R. 

In the end with the Diverge i put the saddle up a bit and pushed it down and back a little bit on my Roubaix to try and find some middle ground. Both bikes feel very similar position wise when swapping between them.

i was actually thinking about putting a different post on it but really wanted to hang onto the CG-R given the adventure nature of the Diverge.


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## thumper8888

taodemon said:


> For me the issues with the VIAS had little to do with its visuals, and more to do with the sacrifices it made for aerodynamics in terms of added weight and braking issues.


Plus one for sure.


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## jacksdad

Yep just slid my seat almost all the way forward.


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## TmB123

Saw this posted up on a different site - suspension in the head tube.


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## Rashadabd

TmB123 said:


> Saw this posted up on a different site - suspension in the head tube.


It seems like it might be a similar design to what is on the new Trek Domane SLR. I heard some rave reviews about the Domane today. Adding it to my short list along with the Focus Paralane and BMC Roadmachine. I am still in wait and see mode on the new Roubaix. 

2017 Trek Domane SLR: full tech details and first impressions | CyclingTips


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## jacksdad

Anyone have insight on the pave vs cgr seat post? Would like less setback but not wanting to give up the cush right now. Seat is fully forward. I'd much prefer most settings to be middle of range to allow for fine tuning as I evolve.


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## TmB123

Try an Ergon CF3 instead..
Best soft-riding rigid seatposts for road, dirt, and gravel - BikeRadar Australia


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## Chader09

It is out.
https://www.specialized.com/us/en/smoother-is-faster


Reviews I have found so far:

First-look review: Specialized Roubaix 2017 | CyclingTips

Specialized Roubaix 2017 review - BikeRadar USA

Quantifying Smoothness: Specialized partners with McLaren on new Roubaix w/ Future Shock Suspension - Bikerumor

2017 Specialized Roubaix first ride review | Road Bike News, Reviews, and Photos

Specialized launches all-new Roubaix with front suspension | road.cc

First Ride: 2017 Specialized Roubaix | Bicycling

Road Bike Action | Ride Review: 2017 Specialized Roubaix Adds ?Future Shock? Suspension


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## stuarttx

What is that triangle shaped thing right above the bottom bracket? It is there on the Expert but not the Elite.

Never mind, I found it. It's a seat box that looks like an e-bike battery box.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## lostPixels

I am not a fan of the new frame at all from an aesthetic perspective, and it sounds like the front suspension is wonky during climbs. I think I'll be jumping ship and checking out the Domane SLR if I need another endurance bike.


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## jacksdad

stuarttx said:


> What is that triangle shaped thing right above the bottom bracket? It is there on the Expert but not the Elite.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


c'mon over to my thread!!! We got all the answers!

(hint, removable storage)


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## Chader09

jacksdad said:


> c'mon over to my thread!!! We got all the answers!
> 
> (hint, removable storage)


... or you could have posted in the thread that already existed about the bike?


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## jacksdad

look buddy, i woke up at 3am for a bathroom break and couldn't get back to sleep so i checked in and happened upon this groundbreaking information. i'm gonna get my 15!


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## Chader09

jacksdad said:


> look buddy, i woke up at 3am for a bathroom break and couldn't get back to sleep so i checked in and happened upon this groundbreaking information. i'm gonna get my 15!


Your 15 minutes of jumping to incorrect conclusions about giant zerts in the BB area? Go ahead and be first to be wrong then if that floats your boat.

I am content to read and learn about the bike before commenting rather than guessing just to be "first".


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## jacksdad

Chader09 said:


> Your 15 minutes of jumping to incorrect conclusions about giant zerts in the BB area? Go ahead and be first to be wrong then if that floats your boat.
> 
> I am content to read and learn about the bike before commenting rather than guessing just to be "first".


Humorless | Definition of Humorless by Merriam-Webster


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## Chader09

jacksdad said:


> Humorless | Definition of Humorless by Merriam-Webster


:thumbsup:


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## Wood Devil

I'm seriously eyeing the new Roubaix. I need something that's a little more friendly on the increasingly brutal Massachusetts roads. I like the S-Works but would've preferred the step down, the Pro Udi2, but I'm not into the blue. I don't know where the black with white lettering one is that's in all the review pics.


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## Rashadabd

Wood Devil said:


> I'm seriously eyeing the new Roubaix. I need something that's a little more friendly on the increasingly brutal Massachusetts roads. I like the S-Works but would've preferred the step down, the Pro Udi2, but I'm not into the blue. I don't know where the black with white lettering one is that's in all the review pics.


The Elite and the Comp seem like pretty good deals if you like the bike.


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## TmB123

If I'm reading it right it seems they have taken some geometry from the Tarmac to make it a little racier for the Pro's, so is it still an Endurance bike? Seems to be a race bike for rough roads with bouncy handlebars - suspension is usually designed to keep the wheel in contact with the ground and to smooth out the bumps, with this design the wheel still bounces around as does the frame, but the rider feels less of it I guess.


----------



## bparrino

Long time lurker, first time poster. I've been following this thread for a while, and today, I purchased a 2017 Roubaix Expert UDi2. First one out the door at my local bike shop!

So, here's my review and my rationale. I've been in the market for a new bike for two years, and have a friend that owns a bike shop that sells Specialized, Giants and Pinarellos. My wish list was disc brake and electronic shifting and my friend suggested I hold off until this year because of the UCI disc decision and the strength of the US dollar for prices, thankfully, I followed his advice.

He got a chance to ride the Giants and Specialized at dealer events in the Spring and while the TCR is awesome, told me he heard the Roubaix was going to be a game changer. Once he rode it, he simply texted me "you're buying the Roubaix"... who am I to argue with a bike shop owner.

So, we agreed to go with the UDi2 model, knowing they all came with disc. I went with the black/charcoal option blindly, all we knew was that was the color scheme, but I figured it was pretty universal. Specialized kept everything under tight wraps until about a week ago. where I saw a brochure with my bike style, but with the cockpit and seat post whited out.

Today, we did our fitting, and I got to sneak out for an hour before fatherly duties called. The Roubaix is ridiculous.

First, and probably what everyone is talking about it the Future Shock. It's unbelievable, it literally feels like you're floating over the road. Potholes, bumps, cracks that I always avoided on my usual route, I blasted through. I was laughing just plowing through the usual hurdles. Hit a corner hard and due to the flex, the front tire is glued to the ground. The CGR I didn't really notice much, but I suppose that's a good thing, definitely comfortable on the back end.

I laugh because the electronic shifting is probably my third favorite thing about the bike, and it would be the leading candidate on most steeds. The discs are just awesome, I won't get into the debate as to whether they're necessary, but this rider loves them. 

The SWAT box I was unsure of, and I can always take it off, but right now, I'm digging it. It has places for tubes, tire levers, CO2s, and when you're actually riding, you don't even see it. 

The UDi2 has plenty of reviews, but it's just flawless. 

I'm rolling with Ultegra pedals, and the new S Works, double BOA shoes. 

So, I would just encourage everyone to find a dealer with some in stock and go ride one yourself. I bet in five years, everyone will have their own version of the Future Shock because it just makes everything better. Not a gimmick, just phenomenal.

I'm downloading a bunch of pictures to my computer and will post shortly.


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## bparrino




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## bparrino

I tried to give everyone a couple of different views. First, the standard garage door view, although I don't know if I followed all the rules correctly.

2) Side profile of the future shock.
3-4) I call my steed "Sex Panther" in homage to Anchorman. I find her sexy.
5) It's hard to show via photo, but when the sunlight hits it, there's a rainbow fleck pattern in the paint job. It's very subtle in real life, but kind of cool to know it's there. Most of the time, the bike looks black.
6) Here's the inside of the SWAT box. I don't have it loaded up yet, but you're supposed to wrap the tube around the center console, there's places to clip in CO2s and tire levers. Then, it just clips right back into the plastic frame.

I hope everyone finds this helpful. I LOVE this bike, I couldn't be any happier today.


----------



## Dunbar

TmB123 said:


> If I'm reading it right it seems they have taken some geometry from the Tarmac to make it a little racier for the Pro's, so is it still an Endurance bike?


In my size (54cm) geometry chart shows that it has the same reach and 6mm taller stack than the outgoing Roubaix. The strange thing is the head tube is shorter so I think they're using the top of the future shock to measure stack (since you can't trim off the future shock like you could with excess steerer tube.) It sounds like it will handle more like a Tarmac though.


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## Steenerk

bparrino said:


> I tried to give everyone a couple of different views. First, the standard garage door view, although I don't know if I followed all the rules correctly.
> 
> 2) Side profile of the future shock.
> 3-4) I call my steed "Sex Panther" in homage to Anchorman. I find her sexy.
> 5) It's hard to show via photo, but when the sunlight hits it, there's a rainbow fleck pattern in the paint job. It's very subtle in real life, but kind of cool to know it's there. Most of the time, the bike looks black.
> 6) Here's the inside of the SWAT box. I don't have it loaded up yet, but you're supposed to wrap the tube around the center console, there's places to clip in CO2s and tire levers. Then, it just clips right back into the plastic frame.
> 
> I hope everyone finds this helpful. I LOVE this bike, I couldn't be any happier today.


Can you flip the stem over?


Sent from my Nexus 6P using Tapatalk


----------



## Lallement

So far I have seen a number of reviews that really loved this bike.


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## bparrino

I'm sure you can. The stock stem is flat (90 degree angle), I just prefer a little more height and during the fitting, we settled on this one. I think I read somewhere they have a negative degree stem as well. 

Mine is not standard, just what I like.


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## Chader09

TmB123 said:


> If I'm reading it right it seems they have taken some geometry from the Tarmac to make it a little racier for the Pro's, so is it still an Endurance bike? Seems to be a race bike for rough roads with bouncy handlebars - suspension is usually designed to keep the wheel in contact with the ground and to smooth out the bumps, with this design the wheel still bounces around as does the frame, but the rider feels less of it I guess.


The comparison between suspending the rider vs suspending the bike is a bit off.

In the new Roubaix, the Future Shock supports the front half of the rider while the seat post supports the rear half (ignoring the weight supported by the pedals since that varies based on power and cadence).

Based on that, when the bike hits a bump, the front wheel lifts which also raises the fork and head tube. The weight of the rider, via the hands on the bars, want to stay in position (thanks Newton) which leads to the compression of the spring in the Future Shock.

There is a similar chain of events when you look at a typical suspension fork. The difference is the relative position of the spring in the system. It is much earlier in the chain for a sprung fork than the new Roubaix. It is between the fixed and moving halves of the fork.

So, what’s the real difference?
Unsprung Weight: “In a ground vehicle with a suspension, the unsprung weight (or the unsprung mass) is the mass of the suspension, wheels or tracks (as applicable), and other components directly connected to them, rather than supported by the suspension.”

For the new Roubaix, the UW is the wheel, fork, front part of the bike.
For a normal suspension fork, the UW is the wheel and lower half of the fork.

In most suspension design, having a low UW allows the suspension to move and react faster. Therefore, all other things being equal, the sprung fork design should be able to react faster than the new Roubaix design.

The Roubaix has the penalty of more mass moving up and down since the spring is so high in the system. But it is still a true suspension. It may have an advantage in lower component weight vs a standard fork, but who knows?

One major point being that either design should improve not only comfort, but also traction. This happens because the wheel can react faster, and stay in contact with the ground or return to it faster because of the spring return affect.


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## Steenerk

Just like Baja racers. The wheels bouncing around and the chassis/frame of the vehicle virtually stays still. That's the best example I can give.

Sent from my Nexus 6P using Tapatalk


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## TmB123

Steenerk said:


> Just like Baja racers. The wheels bouncing around and the chassis/frame of the vehicle virtually stays still. That's the best example I can give.
> 
> Sent from my Nexus 6P using Tapatalk


Yep, but in this case, the wheel is still rigidly connected to the fork and frame, so the whole bike still bounces, it is the rider that is suspended, rather than the bike - however, all (paid?) reviews have been overwhelmingly positive so far, so they must have done something right!


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## TmB123

Chader09 said:


> The comparison between suspending the rider vs suspending the bike is a bit off.
> 
> In the new Roubaix, the Future Shock supports the front half of the rider while the seat post supports the rear half (ignoring the weight supported by the pedals since that varies based on power and cadence).
> 
> Based on that, when the bike hits a bump, the front wheel lifts which also raises the fork and head tube. The weight of the rider, via the hands on the bars, want to stay in position (thanks Newton) which leads to the compression of the spring in the Future Shock.
> 
> There is a similar chain of events when you look at a typical suspension fork. The difference is the relative position of the spring in the system. It is much earlier in the chain for a sprung fork than the new Roubaix. It is between the fixed and moving halves of the fork.
> 
> So, what’s the real difference?
> Unsprung Weight: “In a ground vehicle with a suspension, the unsprung weight (or the unsprung mass) is the mass of the suspension, wheels or tracks (as applicable), and other components directly connected to them, rather than supported by the suspension.”
> 
> For the new Roubaix, the UW is the wheel, fork, front part of the bike.
> For a normal suspension fork, the UW is the wheel and lower half of the fork.
> 
> In most suspension design, having a low UW allows the suspension to move and react faster. Therefore, all other things being equal, the sprung fork design should be able to react faster than the new Roubaix design.
> 
> The Roubaix has the penalty of more mass moving up and down since the spring is so high in the system. But it is still a true suspension. It may have an advantage in lower component weight vs a standard fork, but who knows?
> 
> One major point being that either design should improve not only comfort, but also traction. This happens because the wheel can react faster, and stay in contact with the ground or return to it faster because of the spring return affect.


Nice write up - is the spring in the Future Shock actually strong enough to act as a true suspension, perhaps so, time will tell


----------



## Russlite

Blasting your new bike through pot holes & such and enjoying the smooth ride may be cool, but I wonder how much your wheels appreciate that abuse? 

I work at a shop and got to do a short test ride on the new Roubaix today and it felt great. It feels like a road bike. Period. No goofy mountain bike suspension stuff going on (I say that as a core mountain biker) A smooth and predictable ride. My ultimate judgement will be held in reserve until I see how well this system holds up over time. I know the big S has been testing this bike for several years prior to the release and in my experience, Specialized usually does their homework. Kind of excited.


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## Chader09

TmB123 said:


> Nice write up - is the spring in the Future Shock actually strong enough to act as a true suspension, perhaps so, time will tell


Yes, it is strong enough.

The fact that a rider can sit on the bike, with normal weight distribution on the hands and bars, and the FS spring remains at least partially extended, means the rider is "suspended".

There may well be sag (partial compression of the main spring), but unless the spring compresses to the hard physical stop under the riders weight, it is suspension.

That "float" of the rider weight on the spring is what allows the chassis (wheel and frame in this case) to track along the bumps more closely while keeping the rider mass more level.

To clarify one assumption that is not directly stated in my orIginal explanation, the scenario described is for a rider in the seated position. Meaning weight is primarily located on the bars and saddle.

With the new Roubaix, this all changes when the rider stands. Once you transition weight off the saddle and to the BB, the forces and spring location dramatically change the physics involved.

Compared to a traditional suspension fork, the FS will eliminate most of the "pedal bob" that would exist. That is because a large amount of the rider weight shifts to the BB. I feel some bob will remain unless the rider adopts a very light balance on the bars, but that is not practical to maintain. However, the upper body bob will be less costly in terms of efficiency than normal fork design. Unless they add a lockout, this will always be somewhat of an issue. 

I believe that is exactly why Specialized did what they did with the design. It will perform with best comfort and traction while sitting, but act more like a traditional road bike for sprinting and hard climbing when standing. That and the more Tarmac style geo point to them wanting a really comfortable, stable and fast road bike. 

Judging by initial feedback, I'd say they probably got that.


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## Chader09

This is a very well written article that covers the basics, feel and pros/cons of the new bike. 
First-look review: Specialized Roubaix 2017 | CyclingTips


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## Rashadabd




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## Rashadabd




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## Rashadabd




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## Rashadabd

Chader09 said:


> This is a very well written article that covers the basics, feel and pros/cons of the new bike.
> First-look review: Specialized Roubaix 2017 | CyclingTips


Good post, thanks. I am a little more interested in taking one on a test ride, but nowhere near being sold on it as a game changer yet.


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## Lallement

lostPixels said:


> I am not a fan of the new frame at all from an aesthetic perspective, and it sounds like the front suspension is wonky during climbs.......


The suspension has 3 different tension springs, so perhaps just moving to the stiffer one would solve that problem. It would be worth checking out in a test ride.


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## bparrino

Here's a picture of the "firm" and "soft" springs, which comes with the bikes. During the quick parking lot test ride I had the firm in place. During my fitting, we swapped out to the medium for no other reason than I read somewhere it's a good everyday riding option.

As someone who's ridden it, sprinted as hard as I could, rolled over all kinds of bumps, I can assure you that the bike does not feel wonky at all. I haven't had a chance to ride any hills, and my guess is if you had a day of serious climbing, you might want to swap to the firm spring (takes 5-10 minutes). 

The best way I can describe the ride is to compare it a little bit to a mountain bike. It's not the perfect analogy, but if you've ever found some fast, flowy single track, and just tore it up on mountain bike, carving corners, keep pushing faster and faster, and just become one with the road/trail, that's kind of the feeling. 

You're just locked into the road, you "feel" all of the undulations, but not in a bad way, more of an in "I appreciate you mother earth" kind of way and just fly through. It's ridiculously fun to ride.


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## ToiletSiphon

A locking mechanism would have been amazing. Bad road coming? Activate the suspension. Hard climb? Lock it completely. 

Envoyé de mon XT1563 en utilisant Tapatalk


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## Chader09

ToiletSiphon said:


> A locking mechanism would have been amazing. Bad road coming? Activate the suspension. Hard climb? Lock it completely.
> 
> Envoyé de mon XT1563 en utilisant Tapatalk


It is possible and was considered, but they wanted to keep the weight down.

Maybe they will add it of enough people ask for it or complain about the movement.


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## GOTA

This looks to me like something you wait for and see what changes they make after a year or two. Early adopters of new bike tech tend to spend a lot of money and end up disappointed after the refinements come out. This is not the final version of this generation of the Roubaix. It's more like a beta test


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## Rashadabd

Well gents, I just got back from testing the bike as well and after being extremely skeptical two days ago, I have to agree with bparrino 100%. Here are a few photos:


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## Rashadabd




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## Rashadabd

Here are my thoughts after a short test ride:

1) This bike is light, like really light. I am talking Fact 10r Carbon complete bike with the Futureshock and stock wheels. Even with all of that, it still feels like it significantly lighter than any other disc equipped road bike I have tried thus far. It actually feels like it is lighter than many rim brake equipped bikes.

2) It feels more Tarmac than Roubaix SL4. Unlike other endurance models, I couldn't feel the difference from a power transfer standpoint between this bike and a Tarmac, Scott Addict, or TCR. It's a race bike, it's just that simple. What I can say is that it rides much smoother than the Tarmac or the TCR in the front and rear end.

3) The top tube is about the same length as a Tarmac on paper, but I felt way more squished than I do on pure race bikes (Addict, TCR, Tarmac, etc.). I have no idea why that is, but I felt like I would definitely need a longer stem and/or a seat/post combo with more setback options. It was tough to get into an aero position as a result and I basically had to push my hind parts off of the back of the saddle to get there.

4.) Contrary to my expectations, the Futureshock was not an obstacle or weird at all. You can apply force and make it move at will, but it didn't get in the way when sprinting in or out of the saddle at all. That surprised me. I forgot to ask which spring they had in, but it was one I would have no problem riding on regularly. I took it into an fairly empty parking lot and opened it up more than once and there were no issues at all. 

5.) The swatbox seems pretty cool. It's really just a relocated saddle bag that is placed in a more aerodynamic position. If you don't hate saddle bags, there's really no reason to hate the swat box.

Oh, if you live in GA or are nearby and want to take a closer look, Roswell Bicycles has a 52cm and a 56cm on the floor.


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## bparrino

Ride on my man, ride on!

Did you get any real distance in, or just parking lot ride? Putting it through its places is a blast. Did you notice that sparkle fleck in the paint, in the sun, it looks stellar IMO.


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## Rashadabd

bparrino said:


> Ride on my man, ride on!
> 
> Did you get any real distance in, or just parking lot ride? Putting it through its places is a blast. Did you notice that sparkle fleck in the paint, in the sun, it looks stellar IMO.


It's definitely good looking, but it takes a while to get used to looking at the top of the spring. All spacers would have to go for me, but then I would probably be fine. I am also not sure I would keep the CGR seatpost. I only was allowed to take it on a short test loop next to the shop. I pushed it as best I could under the circumstances though. I was so excited I forgot to hit the climb I could have...

This thing could be really responsive if you put a set of lightweight carbon and aero wheels and Dura Ace mechanical components on it.


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## Stumpjumper FSR

Rashadabd said:


> It's definitely good looking, but it takes a while to get used to looking at the top of the spring. All spacers would have to go for me, but then I would probably be fine. I am also not sure I would keep the CGR seatpost. I only was allowed to take it on a short test loop next to the shop. I pushed it as best I could under the circumstances though. I was so excited I forgot to hit the climb I could have...
> 
> This thing could be really responsive if you put a set of lightweight carbon and aero wheels and *Dura Ace mechanical components *on it.


Wasn't this bike equipped with UDI2?


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## bparrino

My riding buddy bought the Pro UDi2 with the chameleon paint, it hasn't shipped yet but I can't wait to see it.

It's been torture all weekend, in the 70's in Chicago, low humidity and my schedule just doesn't allow for any rides the past two days. I have this great new toy and no chances to ride 

I tried packing up the swat box yesterday, but to make everything fit, I think it locks you into Specialized multi-tools, tire levers, etc. It'll only cost $20-30 to get up to snuff, but there's really not that much room in there. To get all the basics, you have to be super efficient in packing.

I hope you get a chance for a longer ride. The only analogy I can think of is it kind of feels like riding flowy singletrack. I plan on finding some hills and limestone tomorrow, I'm grinning just thinking about it.


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## Rashadabd

Stumpjumper FSR said:


> Wasn't this bike equipped with UDI2?


Yep and it was still pretty light with that, but what I am saying is that there is room for it to be even lighter with mechanical DA (or Sram Red) and lighter wheels.


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## Rashadabd

bparrino said:


> My riding buddy bought the Pro UDi2 with the chameleon paint, it hasn't shipped yet but I can't wait to see it.
> 
> It's been torture all weekend, in the 70's in Chicago, low humidity and my schedule just doesn't allow for any rides the past two days. I have this great new toy and no chances to ride
> 
> I tried packing up the swat box yesterday, but to make everything fit, I think it locks you into Specialized multi-tools, tire levers, etc. It'll only cost $20-30 to get up to snuff, but there's really not that much room in there. To get all the basics, you have to be super efficient in packing.
> 
> I hope you get a chance for a longer ride. The only analogy I can think of is it kind of feels like riding flowy singletrack. I plan on finding some hills and limestone tomorrow, I'm grinning just thinking about it.


Sounds good, please update us when you can. I may get longer rides in because I might buy one. I was set on a Scott Addict Disc, but now I am just as interested in this bike. I would start low (Elite or Comp) and then upgrade it on my own to my liking over time.


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## jacksdad

I read somewhere the total bike weight is a few grams more than the sl4, thoughts on this?

The metalflake sounds cool.


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## TmB123

The CG-R post already has more setback than most setback posts, in your pic the saddle appears to be slammed almost all the way forwards (like most seem to be) so you can push that back a fair bit yet.


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## Rashadabd

TmB123 said:


> The CG-R post already has more setback than most setback posts, in your pic the saddle appears to be slammed almost all the way forwards (like most seem to be) so you can push that back a fair bit yet.


Good to know, thanks.


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## Rashadabd

jacksdad said:


> I read somewhere the total bike weight is a few grams more than the sl4, thoughts on this?
> 
> The metalflake sounds cool.


I didn't weigh anything, so you can take this with a grain of salt, but I would say it felt right on par with decently equipped Tarmac rim brake bike and it definitely felt lighter than the TCR Advanced Pro Disc I picked up right after I got back from my test ride.


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## Rashadabd

I guess my final thoughts are that Specialized, maybe more than any other bike manufacturer is forcing you to think hard about who you are as a bike rider and what you are looking for out of your next bike right now. Many companies seem to be leaning more toward quiver killers, one bike that seems to do it all kind of machines. Even when they create bikes in different categories there appears to be a lot of overlap, but Specialized seems to be ... well specializing. If you are a die hard speed junkie and/or time trialist, they make the Venge VIAS for you, if you are a crit racer and/or want aero on a budget, they have the Allez Sprint, etc. These bikes are among the very best at the purpose they were designed for, but don't necessarily seem like great fits for other uses. 

What I feel like they have done with the new Roubaix is create a bike for the cyclist that loves to ride 50+ miles regularly, over all kinds of roads and in all kinds of weather conditions. It seems like it would be a great bike for the person that likes long fast solo or group rides, gran fondos, and 100 mile epic adventures over mixed terrain, but wants those rides to include some serious climbing and to have equipment that allows them to ride those rides as fast and as comfortable as they can. 

It's not the same bike as the Scott Addict Gravel Disc or Giant TCX SX are, but it's closer to those than the Scott Solace and Giant Defy are. What makes it special to me is not the comfort, but the weight and race ready nature. That's what separates it form the new Domane and other endurance bikes. You get the features that make it great for long rides without compromising the ability to climb and sprint your best.


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## bparrino

I agree with your take on the Roubaix, it's just a great all-rounder. I probably didn't stress this at all in my previous review, but it's an absolute rocket. But, what sets it apart is the Future Shock that just "grooves" your ride. 

I attended two different Giant demo events where I took the new TCR (UDi2/Disc) out for 2+ hours. It's a great bike, fast, snappy, all of that. But then your ride the Roubaix and you're like, dammmmmnnnnnnnnnnn. I can't imagine buying a TCR, Defy, Tarmac, Infinto or whatever after riding the Roubaix. 

I know it's fun/easy/popular to dismiss the marketing hype, but the _smoother is faster_ tagline is pretty dead on. I think I'll find myself taking more aggressive lines because of the confidence in the shock and discs. Over long rides, I think you'll be fresher longer because of the shock. I'm absolutely going to grab some 32 tires as well, to see if I can use it as a mild gravel grinder.

If you get a chance, go ride it. It's just flat out fun (and fast).


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## Rashadabd

It's pretty impressive and after doing my pros and cons thing, I have decided to go with the blue Comp Roubiax. I plan to just add some RS685 shifters, lighter aero wheels, and a couple of more odds and ends and call it a day I think. Electronic shifting probably won't fit in this build budget for now, but I like it so much that it's still the way I plan to go. I think I will get wheels with a wider internal width and run 28mm or 30mm tires. It should be fun, very excited!

https://www.specialized.com/us/en/115635


----------



## bparrino

Whoah!!!! Congrats man, I LOVE that blue color, so rich. 

I tricked mine our with some supacaz bar tape that I think compliments it well.

FYI, my bike shop was telling me the DT 460 wheels could run 32s on them, not sure if it's true or not, but that's what they told me.

I'm happy for you, and I think we won't be alone in our Roubaix love for long. Once you ride it, you get it.


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## Rashadabd

bparrino said:


> Whoah!!!! Congrats man, I LOVE that blue color, so rich.
> 
> I tricked mine our with some supacaz bar tape that I think compliments it well.
> 
> FYI, my bike shop was telling me the DT 460 wheels could run 32s on them, not sure if it's true or not, but that's what they told me.
> 
> I'm happy for you, and I think we won't be alone in our Roubaix love for long. Once you ride it, you get it.


Thanks man, I am excited to get going, but it sounds like it might be a while before the other models, sizes, and colors start to arrive.


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## Kickgear

I'd like to know the weight of the Elite and the comp..

I'm thinking over 20 pounds...


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## bparrino

I have the Expert UDi2 and I can tell you there's no way it's over 20 lbs, even with discs and electronic shifting. My former bike was a 21 lb Lemond Zurich steel bike (#KeepingItSteel) that weighed 21.03 lbs and this is significantly lighter. 

I really should've had the bike shop weigh it prior to taking it, but in all the excitement I forgot. Someone told me the Expert all in is in the 17 lb range, but I didn't validate. 

There's just no way this thing approaches 20 lbs, I've ridden a 20 lb bike for the last ten years and this is not a 20 lb bike.


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## jacksdad

I dunno about that. I spent time with the SL4 udi2 comp and sincerely doubt that bike was 17lbs. One report on the new Roubaix indicates it's actually a few grams heavier than the prior model. I'm guessing 19.


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## Wetworks

Rashadabd said:


> It's pretty impressive and after doing my pros and cons thing, I have decided to go with the blue Comp Roubiax. I plan to just add some RS685 shifters, lighter aero wheels, and a couple of more odds and ends and call it a day I think. Electronic shifting probably won't fit in this build budget for now, but I like it so much that it's still the way I plan to go. I think I will get wheels with a wider internal width and run 28mm or 30mm tires. It should be fun, very excited!
> 
> https://www.specialized.com/us/en/115635


Congrats!!! That blue is killer. :thumbsup:


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## bparrino

19 still seems high on the guess to me, I just don't know. I'll try to weigh mine soon just to get an accurate reading.

The Bike Radar review says that their test bike, all in, was 7.2 kg, or 15.8 lbs. Granted that was the top end model, but I don't think going from FACT 11 to FACT 10 frame is adding 3+ lbs.

It's all a bit moot, if I throw on a second water bottle for a ride, I'm adding weight. I also tend to carry a couple bricks in my jersey pockets just for giggles.

Definitely not a 20 lb bike though, I know that.


----------



## jacksdad

I do like the blue....kinda old school! 

Regarding weight my amateur opinion is stiffness makes you feel fast but a few pounds here or there is insignificant as compared to rider weight.


----------



## Kickgear

I'm asking about the Elite and Comp..... The ones in my price range....

Thanks


----------



## Kickgear

Just talked to a LBS, he weighed an expert with Di2 at,, 

19.5 pounds


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## jacksdad

how does that compare to other bikes in the segment? Say Synapse, Defy Advanced, etc.


And what do I win?!


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## MMsRepBike

Kickgear said:


> Just talked to a LBS, he weighed an expert with Di2 at,,
> 
> 19.5 pounds


Ouch.

My full fendered aluminum everything winter bike weighs quite a bit less than that with cages/pedals/mounts/2000g rims/etc. Which tells me that the Roubaix is quite heavy. I guess nobody is calling it a climbing bike at least.


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## young-nyc

bparrino said:


> Definitely not a 20 lb bike though, I know that.


Let us know what it comes out to, they say the Expert version weighs 19.5lbs


----------



## bparrino

I'm riding a 54cm, I can try and get it weighed just to confirm, but in the end, it's not about the weight for me. I totally get others are into the weights, all I can say is try and go ride it if you can.

My lunchtime ride consisted of trying to PR some strava segments, then explore some crushed limestone paths and finally take on the mean cobbles of Hinsdale, IL. All in all, a great time.


----------



## cmschmie

Wow. Congrats!
Which "stiffness" spring do you have?


----------



## young-nyc

bparrino said:


> My lunchtime ride consisted of trying to PR some strava segments, then explore some crushed limestone paths and finally take on the mean cobbles of Hinsdale, IL. All in all, a great time.


this is getting me all excited.
hopefully it'll handle NYC roads well too


----------



## bparrino

I'm riding with the medium spring right now, which I guess is just fine for 99.9% of my riding. You get the other springs with the bike and you can swap them out fairly easily.

Most of the talk is about the shock and rightfully so, but the disc brakes are muy bien as well. 

I bombed some hills on my ride today as well, no flex/bobbing, just fun times.


----------



## young-nyc

bparrino said:


> I'm riding with the medium spring right now, which I guess is just fine for 99.9% of my riding. You get the other springs with the bike and you can swap them out fairly easily.
> 
> Most of the talk is about the shock and rightfully so, but the disc brakes are muy bien as well.
> 
> I bombed some hills on my ride today as well, no flex/bobbing, just fun times.


That's awesome, can't wait to test ride,
I'm ordering mine and the scheduled availability for the Pro version is December.

Btw, i see you have some stack spacers on your stem, are these able to be cut off?


----------



## bparrino

I think what you're probably seeing is the rubber boot that covers the future shock. It kind of crinkles up and looks like spacers. 

I have no idea how you'd slam the stem on this thing, the height might be just part of the deal. Maybe your bike shop knows, I just don't.

The Pro is the real deal man, I'm impressed! My riding buddy ordered the Pro and we're planning an epic ride to christen it. That chameleon paint job is redonkulous IMO.


----------



## young-nyc

bparrino,
From what i can tell from the videos, that chameleon paint looks pretty cool!
it's blue/ purple and black from all different angles. 

too bad we can't christen all our bikes together!

I'm coming from a venge, so this bike being slammed will still be pretty comfortable.
might go with Riser Aero bars from the vias so that I can run the cables internally.


----------



## Rashadabd

Kickgear said:


> Just talked to a LBS, he weighed an expert with Di2 at,,
> 
> 19.5 pounds


What size was that? I can't see how the bike I picked up and tested was 19.5 lbs. If so, that is the lightest 19.5 lb bike I have ever picked up. It was a size 52cm and my guess is that it was in the 17lb range stock.


----------



## young-nyc

Rashadabd said:


> What size was that? I can't see how the bike I picked up and tested was 19.5 lbs. If so, that is the lightest 19.5 lb bike I have ever picked up.


or you got stronger! haha j/k
yeah we need to verify weight from owners if possible. =)


----------



## bparrino

OK- based on popular demand, did a bathroom scale weighing today.

Roubaix Expert UDi2, 54 cm, with bottle cages, empty SWAT box, and Ultegra PD6800 pedals, 19.5 it is.


----------



## young-nyc

Thanks for weighing your bike! 
still not bad for disc brakes and di2 and pedals.
and from your feedback, it's no slouch either.


----------



## Rashadabd

I am so surprised by that, but it is what it is. It just seems so far off from this (from the Cycling Tips article):

"Another thing the Tarmac has passed onto the new Roubaix is the mantle as Specialized’s lightest road frame. The new Roubaix S-Works frame comes in at 900g while the non-S-Works Roubaix frame weighs 1,050g (for comparison, the Tarmac frame weighs in at 966g).

This doesn’t mean the new Roubaix builds into a lighter steed though. The addition of the included CG-R Seatpost, which is slightly heavier (260g) than a standard post, and the suspension cartridge (295g) bumps the weight up. The top tier Roubaix S-Works with SRAM eTap tips the scales at a respectable 7.2kg."

This makes that Pro UDi2 version look even better. The lighter frame, those CLX32 wheels and lighter components make a much bigger difference than one would expect given the 150g reported frame difference (which is basically less than 1/2 a pound).

https://www.specialized.com/us/en/128570


----------



## Hanakuso

I'm really liking the colors the Comp comes in. I'm colorblind and the yellow/orange is hard to tell, but it looks more orange? Is the fork completely yellow?

I'd most likely go the blue or black/orange route. I think the blue is very classy but the black/orange has a nice touch. I've been a long time fan of Mclaren, so I feel it's appropriate to have some orange.


----------



## Rashadabd

Hanakuso said:


> I'm really liking the colors the Comp comes in. I'm colorblind and the yellow/orange is hard to tell, but it looks more orange? Is the fork completely yellow?
> 
> I'd most likely go the blue or black/orange route. I think the blue is very classy but the black/orange has a nice touch. I've been a long time fan of Mclaren, so I feel it's appropriate to have some orange.


It's all kind of an orangeish yellow.


----------



## TmB123

Rashadabd said:


> I am so surprised by that, but it is what it is. It just seems so far off from this (from the Cycling Tips article):
> 
> "Another thing the Tarmac has passed onto the new Roubaix is the mantle as Specialized’s lightest road frame. The new Roubaix S-Works frame comes in at 900g while the non-S-Works Roubaix frame weighs 1,050g (for comparison, the Tarmac frame weighs in at 966g).
> 
> This doesn’t mean the new Roubaix builds into a lighter steed though. The addition of the included CG-R Seatpost, which is slightly heavier (260g) than a standard post, and the suspension cartridge (295g) bumps the weight up. The top tier Roubaix S-Works with SRAM eTap tips the scales at a respectable 7.2kg."
> 
> This makes that Pro UDi2 version look even better. The lighter frame, those CLX32 wheels and lighter components make a much bigger difference than one would expect given the 150g reported frame difference (which is basically less than 1/2 a pound).
> 
> https://www.specialized.com/us/en/128570


My S-Works Roubaix SL4 in 52cm came in at a smidge under 7kg with pedals and cages, Zipp 202 Firecrest and mechanical DA 9000 and without the CG-R post.
My Diverge Pro in 52cm (10r carbon, with pedals) came in at around 8.3kg (18.3lbs) with CG-R post so still seems to make the new Roubaix a little heavy at 19.5lbs.

As mentioned before though, I think the Roubaix is more about how it rides and less about being a weight weenie, no doubt some weight can be dropped with different wheels and components etc if absolutely necessary.


----------



## Rashadabd

TmB123 said:


> My S-Works Roubaix SL4 in 52cm came in at a smidge under 7kg with pedals and cages, Zipp 202 Firecrest and mechanical DA 9000 and without the CG-R post.
> My Diverge Pro in 52cm (10r carbon, with pedals) came in at around 8.3kg (18.3lbs) with CG-R post so still seems to make the new Roubaix a little heavy at 19.5lbs.
> 
> As mentioned before though, I think the Roubaix is more about how it rides and less about being a weight weenie, no doubt some weight can be dropped with different wheels and components etc if absolutely necessary.


I hear you, but that places significantly more emphasis on the ride quality. It forces you to ask yourself does it mean enough to carry around 3 extra pounds or so on climbs? Do you ride that many rough roads or are feeling that beat up at the end of your rides on a standard bike that you feel like that is justified? I really like the way this bike feels, but I also know I prefer a bike that weighs in at 15-16lbs. You can easily get there on a Focus or Scott disc road bike. I enjoy gran fondos and long rides that include a couple of big climbs. This forces me to think some more is all and for the first time ever, I have to give some thought to the S-Works frame/bikes or consider buying a cheaper model and doing almost a complete rebuild. I am not completely sure either is worth it, but we shall see.


----------



## Rashadabd

Apparently, a 56cm Pro Di2 comes in around 17.1 lbs which isn't too shabby when you consider all of the extra compliance tech included in the frame. It seems like some combination of lighter components and somethign like the super light CLX 32 wheels +/- the lighter Fact 11r frame is what you need to get to a decent weight. 

Road Bike Action | Ride Review: 2017 Specialized Roubaix Adds ?Future Shock? Suspension (Video)


----------



## young-nyc

Rashadabd said:


> It seems like some combination of lighter components and somethign like the super light CLX 32 wheels +/- the lighter Fact 11r frame is what you need to get to a decent weight.


The pro comes with CL32 not clx 
Was hoping I can upgrade but I doubt it.


----------



## Stumpjumper FSR

Rashadabd said:


> Apparently, a 56cm Pro Di2 comes in around 17.1 lbs which isn't too shabby when you consider all of the extra compliance tech included in the frame. It seems like some combination of lighter components and somethign like the super light CLX 32 wheels +/- the lighter Fact 11r frame is what you need to get to a decent weight.
> 
> Road Bike Action | Ride Review: 2017 Specialized Roubaix Adds ?Future Shock? Suspension (Video)


The test bike was equipped with Dura Ace Di2 and CLX32 wheels, the Pro comes with CL32 wheels and Udi2 making it heavier than 17.1 Lbs.
It should weigh about the same as my 2016 56cm Pro Race Udi2.


----------



## Rashadabd

Stumpjumper FSR said:


> The test bike was equipped with Dura Ace Di2 and CLX32 wheels, the Pro comes with CL32 wheels and Udi2 making it heavier than 17.1 Lbs.
> It should weigh about the same as my 2016 56cm Pro Race Udi2.


Yeah, I saw that later. I am a 52cm instead of a 56cm, so the difference would probably wash out, but it's still not exactly a great weight. You only get to roughly 16 LBS (or lighter) with significant upgrades or a build from the frameset from what I can see. That makes it a little less exciting, but it could still be an awesome bike for pretty much all conditions.


----------



## Rashadabd

For comparison sake, the new Trek Domane SLR 6 seems to be significantly lighter at 7.6kg (16.7 lbs), cheaper at similar weights, and includes similar compliance features.... Plus, you can choose your paint scheme using their Project One tool.

Review: Trek Domane SLR 6 | road.cc


----------



## Rashadabd

And when you are talking pure disc equipped race bike for the money, I still don't think anyone is coming close to beating this. The Scott Addict Disc is probably the next best thing and the sweet spot when it comes to value the more I think about it.....

Focus Izalco Max Disc review - Cycling Weekly


----------



## TmB123

Guess it depends if you want "race" or "endurance" geometry?


----------



## Rashadabd

TmB123 said:


> Guess it depends if you want "race" or "endurance" geometry?


I actually like the geometry of the new Roubiax. It's actually really similar to the Tarmac except for stack. That's one of my favorite aspects of the bike to be honest. If you switch out the riser bars, you could have a pretty aggressive set-up pretty easily. To be clear, my concerns are only about weight and the price to get it where I would want it. The best options seem to be to either just go with the Pro Udi2 and lighten it up a bit over time via lighter wheels and/or components (which is still a pretty expensive option) or to start with the Comp or Elite since the frame difference is only 150g (less than 1/2 pound) heavier than the S-Works and Pro frame (at least on paper) and replace the stock stuff with CLX 32 wheels which I would setup tubeless and mechanical Dura Ace or Sram Red components which you can piece together for a pretty reasonable price via eBay and closeouts. If you are a baller, I guess you could go with the S-Works Red eTap complete bike or the S-Works frameset.


----------



## young-nyc

Rashadabd said:


> I actually like the geometry of the new Roubiax. It's actually really similar to the Tarmac except for stack.


but the stack height can be adjusted a bit, is that correct?
there seems to be some spacers you can remove?


----------



## bparrino

There's a pretty good six minute video embedded in the Road Bike Review Roubaix review today that tries to explain the engineering of the bike, why they believe it's fast, and also addresses stack height. Spoiler, you can offset the stack and get aggressive. It also mentions a 56cm S Works weighs in at 15.9 lbs, but as stated yesterday, my UDi2 came in at 19.5.

What's interesting about the video is that while it doesn't go into weights, it attempts to explain how the engineering of the seat post at the Future Shock makes the bike faster via uninterrupted forward momentum. As all things internet, everyone can decide for themselves.

Personally, I'm a 40 year old dude with a slew of kids, and just earned my first Strava top 10 badge this morning on a half mile sprint. My end game isn't to be fast, it's to have fun, but the bike is plenty fast for me.


----------



## Rashadabd

young-nyc said:


> but the stack height can be adjusted a bit, is that correct?
> there seems to be some spacers you can remove?


You can definitely make the setup more aggressive, by removing spacers, etc., but some the differences in stack are from the frameset. I think the fork might be longer, etc., but it is still very close and you can get where you need to be.


----------



## young-nyc

Rashadabd said:


> You can definitely make the setup more aggressive, by removing spacers, etc., but some the differences in stack are from the frameset. I think the fork might be longer, etc., but it is still very close and you can get where you need to be.


yup planning on -17 degree stem and perhaps aerofly risers, 
so i can route the cable internally through the handlebars.
I doubt i'll get venge aggressive positioning, but i don't think i want that on the roubaix,
just want a little bit of the aggressive look.


----------



## RkFast

Rashadabd said:


> ....a bike for the cyclist that loves to ride 50+ miles regularly, over all kinds of roads and in all kinds of weather conditions. It seems like it would be a great bike for the person that likes long fast solo or group rides, gran fondos, and 100 mile epic adventures over mixed terrain, but wants those rides to include some serious climbing and to have equipment that allows them to ride those rides as fast and as comfortable as they can.


They have had bikes like this for 50 years. They are called "round tubed steel bikes."

[ducks]


----------



## young-nyc

bparrino said:


> Personally, I'm a 40 year old dude with a slew of kids, and just earned my first Strava top 10 badge this morning on a half mile sprint. My end game isn't to be fast, it's to have fun, but the bike is plenty fast for me.


congrats on your accomplishment man!
I'm right behind you.


----------



## bparrino

View attachment 316164


The steel joke made me laugh as I've spent the past twelve years #KeepingItSteel on my Reynolds 853 LeMond Zurich. She's moved onto a good home via neighbor and I'm plenty happy with the Roubaix.

But the joke made me laugh, hit close to home!


----------



## Rashadabd

RkFast said:


> They have had bikes like this for 50 years. They are called "round tubed steel bikes."
> 
> [ducks]


Lol, not everyone loves steel though my man. Your point is a valid one though.


----------



## Rashadabd

young-nyc said:


> yup planning on -17 degree stem and perhaps aerofly risers,
> so i can route the cable internally through the handlebars.
> I doubt i'll get venge aggressive positioning, but i don't think i want that on the roubaix,
> just want a little bit of the aggressive look.


Sounds like a cool project.


----------



## Rashadabd

bparrino said:


> There's a pretty good six minute video embedded in the Road Bike Review Roubaix review today that tries to explain the engineering of the bike, why they believe it's fast, and also addresses stack height. Spoiler, you can offset the stack and get aggressive. It also mentions a 56cm S Works weighs in at 15.9 lbs, but as stated yesterday, my UDi2 came in at 19.5.
> 
> What's interesting about the video is that while it doesn't go into weights, it attempts to explain how the engineering of the seat post at the Future Shock makes the bike faster via uninterrupted forward momentum. As all things internet, everyone can decide for themselves.
> 
> Personally, I'm a 40 year old dude with a slew of kids, and just earned my first Strava top 10 badge this morning on a half mile sprint. My end game isn't to be fast, it's to have fun, but the bike is plenty fast for me.


Nice! Same boat on the age, agenda, and family front.


----------



## TmB123

young-nyc said:


> I doubt i'll get venge aggressive positioning, but i don't think i want that on the roubaix,
> just want a little bit of the aggressive look.


I wouldn't worry too much about the "look" these days, it's about what fits, is comfortable and works best for you. If that is agressive then fair enough, but I wouldn't make it agressive to look cool and sacrifice fit and comfort doing it.


----------



## TmB123

bparrino said:


> Personally, I'm a 40 year old dude with a slew of kids, and just earned my first Strava top 10 badge this morning on a half mile sprint. My end game isn't to be fast, it's to have fun, but the bike is plenty fast for me.


No offense intended, but it won't be the bike that is stopping you from getting every KOM in your area! 
I'm in a similar situation to you, mid 40's, three teenage kids, work, more unfit than I'd like - people say endurance bikes are "slow" but the vast majority of my KOMs are all on fast (some technical) descents.


----------



## ToiletSiphon

TmB123 said:


> No offense intended, but it won't be the bike that is stopping you from getting every KOM in your area!
> I'm in a similar situation to you, mid 40's, three teenage kids, work, more unfit than I'd like - people say endurance bikes are "slow" but the vast majority of my KOMs are all on fast (some technical) descents.


Having 3 teenagers would probably give me a deathwish too


----------



## young-nyc

TmB123 said:


> I wouldn't worry too much about the "look" these days, it's about what fits, is comfortable and works best for you. If that is agressive then fair enough, but I wouldn't make it agressive to look cool and sacrifice fit and comfort doing it.


no doubt,
of course i wouldn't want to sacrifice fit for "look"
I'm coming from a Venge, so I'm used to long rides on the saddle in an aggressive position. 
So riding in an aggressive position on the Roubaix would probably be a lot more comfortable too.


----------



## Rashadabd

Ok fellas, after going back and forth and taking one more look at my other options, I am back in. My plan is just to go with the Elite or Comp (most likely the blue or yellow/orange Comp), switch over to mechanical Dura Ace components and then move to CLX 32 wheels as soon as possible. I'll get rid of the spacers, go with the lowest headtube cover, run the wheels tubeless, lighten the cockpit and possibly the seatpost and let the chips fall where they may. It should end up low 17 lbs or high 16 lbs and that is more than fine with added compliance tech.


----------



## young-nyc

Rashadabd said:


> I'll get rid of the spacers, go with the lowest headtube cover, run the wheels tubeless, lighten the cockpit and possibly the seatpost and let the chips fall where they may. It should end up low 17 lbs or high 16 lbs and that is more than fine with added compliance tech.


very nice, can't wait to see your build.
I'm going with the pro version, but wish there was an upgrade program to change my CL32's to CLX32's.. i want the ceramics and definitely not worth it to buy new hubs i think.


----------



## Rashadabd

I think I just found my favorite paint scheme:


----------



## Rashadabd

Here's a little inspiration:


----------



## TmB123

Rashadabd said:


> I think I just found my favorite paint scheme:


Yeah I do like the red and black, sort of similar to my current bike with just a bit more red.


----------



## Rashadabd

TmB123 said:


> Yeah I do like the red and black, sort of similar to my current bike with just a bit more red.


The cover photo for the video is misleading, it's actually the orange and yellow frame featured in the video that I like, that and the blue Comp. Your bike and the new S-Works are good looking as well though.


----------



## TmB123

Rashadabd said:


> The cover photo for the video is misleading, it's actually the orange and yellow frame featured in the video that I like, that and the blue Comp. Your bike and the new S-Works are good looking as well though.


Oh right - oops


----------



## bparrino

TmB123 said:


> No offense intended, but it won't be the bike that is stopping you from getting every KOM in your area!
> I'm in a similar situation to you, mid 40's, three teenage kids, work, more unfit than I'd like - people say endurance bikes are "slow" but the vast majority of my KOMs are all on fast (some technical) descents.


I'm scared of those teenage years, but my hope is that I'm too uncool for my kids that they'll leave me alone and I can go riding. Right now, I'm surviving five kids (7, 5, 4, 2, 9 months) which is really cutting into my Paris-Roubaix training time! On the plus side, I get plenty of resistance training pulling a Burley trailer around on a hybrid. For anyone in a similar boat, I recommend the Boom Bottle, a blue tooth speaker shaped like a water bottle (fits in a standard cage). Throw the kids in the trailer, crank some tunes and head out for a ride.


----------



## TmB123

bparrino said:


> I'm scared of those teenage years, but my hope is that I'm too uncool for my kids that they'll leave me alone and I can go riding. Right now, I'm surviving five kids (7, 5, 4, 2, 9 months) which is really cutting into my Paris-Roubaix training time! On the plus side, I get plenty of resistance training pulling a Burley trailer around on a hybrid. For anyone in a similar boat, I recommend the Boom Bottle, a blue tooth speaker shaped like a water bottle (fits in a standard cage). Throw the kids in the trailer, crank some tunes and head out for a ride.


Wow, 5 kids so close together, damn man, buy a TV!!  lol
Mine are 18,16 and 16, still spend hours a week with them at various sports or other things, so I'm making the most of the time with them as I know it won't last for ever.


----------



## bparrino

TmB123 said:


> Wow, 5 kids so close together, damn man, buy a TV!!  lol
> Mine are 18,16 and 16, still spend hours a week with them at various sports or other things, so I'm making the most of the time with them as I know it won't last for ever.


When you have calves like I do, multiple kids are inevitable j/k. I joke about the kids but it's all good, nothing but love in our household for 5% of the day, the other 95%, well.....

It's really fun and hoping my love of bikes will spill onto them. The dream is a family RAGBRAI week, but I have many more years ahead of me before that happens. Right now, I'm just trying to get my five year old to ride without training wheels. The seven year old is a pro though, and trying to teach him to shred on some multi-use trails.


----------



## Rashadabd

This could be a nice addition if you go with one of the cheaper Roubaix models or a more affordable bike. It would lighten things up a bit too.


----------



## Rashadabd

This has some additional details about all of the fit options that are available on the bike, data on the impact compliance reportedly has on speed, how much more compliant this bike is over the SL4, frame weight and more:

Quantifying Smoothness: Specialized partners with McLaren on new Roubaix w/ Future Shock Suspension - Bikerumor


----------



## young-nyc

Rashadabd said:


> This has some additional details about all of the fit options that are available on the bike, data on the impact compliance reportedly has on speed, how much more compliant this bike is over the SL4, frame weight and more:
> 
> Quantifying Smoothness: Specialized partners with McLaren on new Roubaix w/ Future Shock Suspension - Bikerumor



nice read!.

So i was comparing the geometry between my current Venge 52cm
and the new Roubaix.
I was thinking of sizing down to a 49cm when ordering the New Roubaix
since the 52cm Venge was a tad big on standover height and reach.

It seems that the Roubaix 52cm dimensions for reach and standover is almost the same as a 49cm Venge

Roubaix 52cm
Standover = 743mm
reach = 376mm

Venge 49cm
Standover = 741mm
reach = 385mm

Venge 52cm (current bike)
Standover = 766mm (tad too big)
reach = 385mm (tad too long)

so what do you guys think?


----------



## tyrich88

I'm personally pretty pumped on this new roubaix. I'm glad it's getting good reviews. 
Makes me wish our terrain was better around here so I could get a little more enjoyment out of one. 
All of our flat, boring roads just led me to want to hit the mountain bike trails rather than the road more often than not. 
My poor road bike rarely sees much action any more.


----------



## Jackhammer

My S Works SL 2 with 28's inflated to 80 rear and 70 front rides nicer than the new Roubaix Pro with tires inflated to 90 psi.

I'd also use the stiffest spring in front.

Nice bike if you've got $5K to blow although I'd buy a Domane myself if I wanted the gimmicky stuff...


----------



## Chader09

Jackhammer said:


> My S Works SL 2 with 28's inflated to 80 rear and 70 front rides nicer than the new Roubaix Pro with tires inflated to 90 psi.


Apples and oranges. It comes stock on 26's, but has plenty of room for 28's.

Run the new Roubaix with 28's and similar pressure, and it will be smoother than a similar bike without the FutureShock.



Jackhammer said:


> Nice bike if you've got $5K to blow although I'd buy a Domane myself if I wanted the gimmicky stuff...


The Roubaix is available at $2600 for the entry model, so no need to spend $5k unless you want the upper end group/kit.


----------



## Rashadabd

young-nyc said:


> nice read!.
> 
> So i was comparing the geometry between my current Venge 52cm
> and the new Roubaix.
> I was thinking of sizing down to a 49cm when ordering the New Roubaix
> since the 52cm Venge was a tad big on standover height and reach.
> 
> It seems that the Roubaix 52cm dimensions for reach and standover is almost the same as a 49cm Venge
> 
> Roubaix 52cm
> Standover = 743mm
> reach = 376mm
> 
> Venge 49cm
> Standover = 741mm
> reach = 385mm
> 
> Venge 52cm (current bike)
> Standover = 766mm (tad too big)
> reach = 385mm (tad too long)
> 
> so what do you guys think?


I would definitely work with a fit specialist. FWIW, I rode a 52cm and it fit fine for the most part. I am about 5'6 1/2". I also have shorter legs and a longer torso. I felt a little squished, particularly when trying to tuck into an aero position, but it was probably the setup (especially the saddle) because we literally took the bike off of the stand and didn't alter a thing other than throwing pedals on it before I went out and those were flats because I was in jeans (I didn't expect them to have the bikes 48 ours after release and was really just going there to get info and browse). Looking at the geometry and reading about the fit options available on the new Roubaix, I should be able to set the 52cm up perfectly during a good fit session.


----------



## Jackhammer

Chader09 said:


> Apples and oranges. It comes stock on 26's, but has plenty of room for 28's.


We're comparing bikes to bikes here. 

The 26's are also somewhat gimmicky marketing stuff. 




Chader09 said:


> Run the new Roubaix with 28's and similar pressure, and it will be smoother than a similar bike without the FutureShock.


Not that much that I felt. 




Chader09 said:


> The Roubaix is available at $2600 for the entry model, so no need to spend $5k unless you want the upper end group/kit.


IMHO there's no need to spend anything for a very marginal improvement if you have anything after an SL 2. 

I wasn't impressed.


----------



## young-nyc

Rashadabd said:


> I should be able to set the 52cm up perfectly during a good fit session.



you're lucky you were able to test ride the new roubaix,
i have to see if there is a place near nyc that's demoing it.

Thanks for your feedback
I think i'm definitely going for a 52 as well =)


----------



## tyrich88

Jackhammer said:


> We're comparing bikes to bikes here.
> 
> The 26's are also somewhat gimmicky marketing stuff.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Not that much that I felt.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> IMHO there's no need to spend anything for a very marginal improvement if you have anything after an SL 2.
> 
> I wasn't impressed.


Pretty interesting to see since literally EVERY review of the bike is raving about how much better it is. But I guess there always has to be someone to call the whole "marketing gimmick" business.


----------



## MMsRepBike

tyrich88 said:


> Pretty interesting to see since literally EVERY review of the bike is raving about how much better it is. But I guess there always has to be someone to call the whole "marketing gimmick" business.


Anyone that knows me knows I have a keen eye for marketing bullshit and poor manufacturing.

When the new Venge came out, I'm pretty sure I was the first one to very loudly proclaim that those v-brakes were going to be total trash, it was obvious by their design. Also their unwillingness to tell us where the two minutes saved from the bike itself was coming from was a giant red flag. That release and that bike in general are pure marketing bullshit, and I was standing high on my soap box the day of release to tell everyone. When Chris Yu came here I immediately jumped on him asking him unbox the bullshit. He refused and left.

This bike though. I can't say anything at all until I try it. There's no fake time saved being promoted, there's no dangerous engineering being pushed on us as "better than Dura-Ace," there's just some weird suspension stem/steerer thing going on.

The seatpost is pure bullshit, I've said it over and over and it's been proven time and time again by experts. It doesn't do **** for compliance and in fact most normal seatposts will probably be more compliant. But moving the seat collar that far down on any bike will add compliance alone. That's not a gimmick. The post itself is, but the collar placement is not.

So trust me, if this bike was all marketing gimmicks like the Venge is, you wouldn't be able to avoid my comments on it, they'd be all over. But for the most part it isn't as I can tell. It's a new approach, well kind of an old approach revisited. It's not for me, I can tell you that for sure, but that doesn't matter.


----------



## Rashadabd

Meanwhile in the rest of the cycling world, this happened:

Cervélo thinks their new aero disc brake S3 Disc will be a workhorse racer - Bikerumor


----------



## Chader09

tyrich88 said:


> Pretty interesting to see since literally EVERY review of the bike is raving about how much better it is. But I guess there always has to be someone to call the whole "marketing gimmick" business.


Agreed. I wonder how and where he rode it and if it was a real test of the suspension.

I like the idea for the new FS design, but think it is overkill for most "road" riding. But how bad are most peoples actual road rides compared to what this is really intended to race?

I think this suspension is more beneficial for the Diverge in a true gravel road application.

I have been eyeing the Lauf fork, the updated Trek Domane with front Isospeed and adjustable rear Isospeed. Both have some interesting merit on the dirt roads I like to ride.

My Boone has the first gen Isospeed and it makes a great difference for me. I love the idea of adding compliance on the front that balances the comfort.

It will be cool to see these an update Diverge from Spesh and revised Boone CX (possibly a gravel specific design too?) from Trek. I am guessing these will be Spring release if they do move in that direction.


----------



## Rashadabd

MMsRepBike said:


> Correct.
> 
> The reason a -17 degree stem is 100% mandatory on the new venge, and therefore the reason the riser bars exist is aerodynamics. As I've been saying for years here, the cockpit setup on a bike is the most important part of the frame aerodynamics.
> 
> Spec. found out in their tunnel that any stem that's above horizontal destroys the aerodynamics. Furthermore, anything above the top cap above the stem horizontally does the same. Picture a garmin that points up instead of down or level in front of the bars. The highest frontal point has to be the top of the stem top cap, everything has to be below it vertically.
> 
> They cannot sell the Venge with anything else but a -17 or their marketing claims would be completely ruined, that's how important it is. Seeing it on the Roubaix though... this just tells me they're idiots, but I already knew that. And actually seeing it on the Roubaix now leads me to believe they're going to try the same marketing scam again about saving x seconds or minutes or whatever...


Actually, I was incorrect. It turns out they are designed for greater comfort and a more upright riding position.


----------



## TmB123

Rashadabd said:


> Actually, I was incorrect. It turns out they are designed for greater comfort and a more upright riding position.


I thought the idea was that because they had a smaller front end/ head tube, the riser bars were necessary to get the bars back up to the height they were meant to be.


----------



## Chader09

The actual head tube is lower because the Future Shock adds height that wasn't there before.


----------



## jacksdad

Saw one today in a shop. 54cm 105 build. 

generally cool looking, heavier than the prior design (based on my pick it up and pause thoughtfully scale) and the springy thing feels neat.


----------



## Devastazione

So,any early adopter here ? I may consider to give this bike a try but...there's always a but. I mean it's just a simple coil,still no need to end up like the Venge brake thing.


----------



## TmB123

Devastazione said:


> So,any early adopter here ? I may consider to give this bike a try but...there's always a but. I mean it's just a simple coil,still no need to end up like the Venge brake thing.


are you getting new bike withdrawl syndrome? Must be what, a week, since you last bought one?!  lol


----------



## Devastazione

TmB123 said:


> are you getting new bike withdrawl syndrome? Must be what, a week, since you last bought one?!  lol


The plan is to ride the new mtb until december and see if the mtb bug bites again,if not the Camber will go and funds will be made fot another road bike. So far I'm having fun with the Camber but I'm still a roadie after all ;-)


----------



## jaggrin

This bike is a total game changer and every serious cyclist needs one in their stable. If you think otherwise you must have fallen off your bike and hit your head while not wearing a helmet. Believe the hype, believe that you will be less fatigued after 80 or 90 miles and be able to out sprint your buddies not on the 2017 Roubaix for that elusive quest for head Fred for a day.


----------



## Stumpjumper FSR

jaggrin said:


> This bike is a total game changer and every serious cyclist needs one in their stable. If you think otherwise you must have fallen off your bike and hit your head while not wearing a helmet. Believe the hype, believe that you will be less fatigued after 80 or 90 miles and be able to out sprint your buddies not on the 2017 Roubaix for that elusive quest for head Fred for a day.


So a spring in the head tube is going to keep my legs fresh for a sprint, I want some of what you're smoking!


----------



## TmB123

Stumpjumper FSR said:


> So a spring in the head tube is going to keep my legs fresh for a sprint, I want some of what you're smoking!


Come on dude, it'll "put more spring in your sprint"!


----------



## jaggrin

Stumpjumper FSR said:


> So a spring in the head tube is going to keep my legs fresh for a sprint, I want some of what you're smoking!


I'm
OMG you don't get it dude. That little spring is going to massively reduce the fatigue of your puny arms, puny mind and glorious gluteus Maximus when you are out riding. Specialized spent tens of millions of dollars researching that little spring and it has been determined by all the major reviews like road bike review, bike radar and bike zilla to be groundbreaking technology , even more so than stealth radar . The reviews are in and get with the program . This is earth shattering technology , that little spring in the head tube, this frame is the lightest , stiffest frame ever made .


----------



## Jackhammer

tyrich88 said:


> Pretty interesting to see since literally EVERY review of the bike is raving about how much better it is. But I guess there always has to be someone to call the whole "marketing gimmick" business.


The Domane was the greatest thing since sliced bread. Then the Defy managed to top it without any gimmicks like zertz or decouplers. Now this is the holy grail!?

Don't the reviewers get flown out to the test sites, in this case Roubaix, to ride with Boonen, Cancellera, or some other "legend?"

Just odd that the shops want to give you the idea you "need" this thing yet they have their "26's" at 7 bar while running them at 5-6 makes a world of difference on any decent bike. 

Listen, if anyone offers you Kool Aid from the fountain of youth, think it over. 






jaggrin said:


> This bike is a total game changer and every serious cyclist needs one in their stable. If you think otherwise you must have fallen off your bike and hit your head while not wearing a helmet. Believe the hype, believe that you will be less fatigued after 80 or 90 miles and be able to out sprint your buddies not on the 2017 Roubaix for that elusive quest for head Fred for a day.


Thanks!



Stumpjumper FSR said:


> So a spring in the head tube is going to keep my legs fresh for a sprint, I want some of what you're smoking!


He was being sarcastic.


----------



## taodemon

The sarcasm wasn't quite as blatant on the first post as it was on the second. 

That said, on centuries that don't include huge amounts of climbing I generally seem to have fresher legs at the end than guys I ride with that are typically stronger than me. I would put it on riding a venge vs the typical endurance/climbing bikes people tend to ride around here. 

Despite the sarcasm I guess a smoother ride could possibly help keeping you fresher over a longer ride but I don't see it having as big an effect as the watts saved by being more aero.

That said if they someday design a endurance aero bike I might be interested (new madone is the closest so far). 

I think it is good to see attempts at innovation like the new roubaix and domane and there is some pretty cool tech in them but they just aren't bikes that scratch my itch.


----------



## Jackhammer

*Try this one!*



taodemon said:


> The sarcasm wasn't quite as blatant on the first post as it was on the second.
> 
> That said, on centuries that don't include huge amounts of climbing I generally seem to have fresher legs at the end than guys I ride with that are typically stronger than me. I would put it on riding a venge vs the typical endurance/climbing bikes people tend to ride around here.
> 
> Despite the sarcasm I guess a smoother ride could possibly help keeping you fresher over a longer ride but I don't see it having as big an effect as the watts saved by being more aero.
> 
> That said if they someday design a endurance aero bike I might be interested (new madone is the closest so far).
> 
> I think it is good to see attempts at innovation like the new roubaix and domane and there is some pretty cool tech in them but they just aren't bikes that scratch my itch.


Great review! Near perfect ride! Best you've ever tasted! 

Bianchi Specialissima | VeloNews.com

When an Italian grandma cooks dinner, you never know what’s in the sauce — but you know it’s the best you’ve ever tasted. That’s what it’s like to ride Bianchi’s Specialissima. The lightweight climbing bike soars in the mountains, carves through descents, and hangs with the best in the sprints. The Italian company has succeeded in cooking up a near-perfect ride, packed with proprietary technology and a dash of smart geometry. Look past the alarming price and you’ll see one of the best bikes money can buy.

Oy veh!


----------



## jacksdad

jaggrin said:


> I'm
> OMG you don't get it dude. That little spring is going to massively reduce the fatigue of your puny arms, puny mind and glorious gluteus Maximus when you are out riding. Specialized spent tens of millions of dollars researching that little spring and it has been determined by all the major reviews like road bike review, bike radar and bike zilla to be groundbreaking technology , even more so than stealth radar . The reviews are in and get with the program . This is earth shattering technology , that little spring in the head tube, this frame is the lightest , stiffest frame ever made .


we use green font to indicate sarcasm on another forum I frequent. makes it easier for those who don't know the poster.


----------



## Rashadabd

Love it or hate, I still think it's a fun bike and an interesting design. If endurance riding over a significant amount of mixed/rough surfaces is your thing, I recommend testing one AND then deciding how you feel about it. You really can't evaluate this bike fairly without riding it IMO. Unfortunately, it is heavier than I thought it was, but that might matter less to those that aren't doing lots of climbing in the mountains and/or those that plan to upgrade/hand select a bunch of the components anyway. I am still struggling with the weight and how much effort/$$$ it would take to get it to a decent weight. Even the Venge Vias Disc is cheaper to upgrade and get to a decent weight now for instance..... Weight is the only real drawback I see on this bike after looking at it very closely and test riding it.


----------



## Jackhammer

Rashadabd said:


> Love it or hate, I still think it's a fun bike and an interesting design. If endurance riding over a significant amount of mixed/rough surfaces is your thing, I recommend testing one AND then deciding how you feel about it. You really can't evaluate this bike fairly without riding it IMO. Unfortunately, it is heavier than I thought it was, but that might matter less to those that aren't doing lots of climbing in the mountains and/or those that plan to upgrade/hand select a bunch of the components anyway. I am still struggling with the weight and how much effort/$$$ it would take to get it to a decent weight. Even the Venge Vias Disc is cheaper to upgrade and get to a decent weight now for instance..... Weight is the only real drawback I see on this bike after looking at it very closely and test riding it.



The bike I rode, I think it was a Pro with Ui2, seemed very light, definitely under 17 lbs. 

Even if the thing weighed 20 lbs that isn't going to make a whole heck of a lot of difference, unless you're racing and under 7-8% body fat. 

My SWorks SL2 with training wheels is heavier and also has the 10r Carbon, whatever that means. 

Is it a nice bike with an unusual feature that will add some comfort and performance? Yes. 

If you have a decent bike that fits well and accommodates at least 25c tires, is it necessary? No.


----------



## Steenerk

taodemon said:


> The sarcasm wasn't quite as blatant on the first post as it was on the second.
> 
> That said, on centuries that don't include huge amounts of climbing I generally seem to have fresher legs at the end than guys I ride with that are typically stronger than me. I would put it on riding a venge vs the typical endurance/climbing bikes people tend to ride around here.
> 
> Despite the sarcasm I guess a smoother ride could possibly help keeping you fresher over a longer ride but I don't see it having as big an effect as the watts saved by being more aero.
> 
> That said if they someday design a endurance aero bike I might be interested (new madone is the closest so far).
> 
> I think it is good to see attempts at innovation like the new roubaix and domane and there is some pretty cool tech in them but they just aren't bikes that scratch my itch.


I think they need to make it an e-bike. If they could come up with a way to minimize a motor make it look hidden, they would solve a lot of problems. Fresh legs, easier climbing, sprinting, hidden motor equals more aero. Would add wait, but being an e-bike problem solved.

Sent from my Nexus 6P using Tapatalk


----------



## Rashadabd

Jackhammer said:


> The bike I rode, I think it was a Pro with Ui2, seemed very light, definitely under 17 lbs.
> 
> Even if the thing weighed 20 lbs that isn't going to make a whole heck of a lot of difference, unless you're racing and under 7-8% body fat.
> 
> My SWorks SL2 with training wheels is heavier and also has the 10r Carbon, whatever that means.
> 
> Is it a nice bike with an unusual feature that will add some comfort and performance? Yes.
> 
> If you have a decent bike that fits well and accommodates at least 25c tires, is it necessary? No.


I don't disagree with a lot of that, but if you can get get down to 7-8% body fat, you can do that regardless of what bike you own, so there is no good reason to spend $3000-$4000 on a 20lb roadbike if you don't want to carry that extra bike weight around. Being fit and having a light bike are not mutually exclusive. You don't have to buy a heavy bike these days. There are lots of light weight options out there. The Futureshock adds some value though so it might be worth it to a certain category of rider. I still think it's cool.


----------



## Tranzition

I'm not gonna lie, I want one. Particularly the expert model in hyper green/yellow  (I've never ridden a bike with disc brakes and electronic shifting, so maybe it's a good excuse to upgrade...)

I wonder what kind of trade in value I can get for my 2015 Roubaix Expert?


----------



## 11spd

I've resisted weighing in until now about the new Roubaix. I own a Roubaix SL3 Pro I built frameset up. Best bike I have ever owned. Me personally? There are probably 20 bikes I would prefer to the new Roubaix. I don't want a bike with a spring loaded steerer. I believe the rear is well executed only without the COBL post which is virtually abandoned by all pro riders in the peloton who ride the cobbles in the classics for a living. A seat post can easily be changed since it is std 27.2mm dia. The front end however..not so much because the flexure properties of the older Roubaix front fork have been designed out of the new Roubaix because of the compressing steerer which I don't want.

For enthusiast riders, much is written about feedback from the road. It is for example why some prefer a Tarmac to the older Roubaix for example and the new Roubaix is simply worse in rider feedback...more isolation. All said, if riding on broken roads which I don't, the new Roubaix would be a good bike....or a current Roubaix with 28c tires...or a Diverge or equivalent with 32c's. I don't want a compressing front fork on my road bike. Heck, even riding a 29er off road, I have swapped out a $600 suspension fork with even a lock out feature for a rigid front fork for more control.

A guy like me maybe a viable candidate for the new Roubaix, but I'm not. Nor do I want disk brakes on my road bike for that matter. Late model Shimano Ultegra to DA caliper brakes are simply amazing and yes, I own disk brake bikes I prefer off road on wider tired bikes. 

My vote...new Roubaix isn't for me. Glad they still offer the SL4 Roubaix with 10r carbon if you can find one without disk brakes and spend the money on wheels and the proper tires for the road surfaces you ride.


A last note. On my daily 20 mile ride, there is only one section of broken road which is less than 1/8 mile or so. I ride my current Roubaix with 23c tires with high pressure. I don't need wider tires pumped to a lower pressure for compliance. For the roads I ride, my bike is perfect...not too stiff and not too soft. I ride with fast guys. I don't need or want more compliance. I don't want to ride a marshmallow or pogo stick ...nor do I want to ride a bike like a Scott Foil that will loosen your fillings. While the SL2 Roubaix was a bit soft...too soft although Sworks 10r version of that older bike wasn't too bad, they nailed the stiffness to compliance ratio of the SL3 with 10-11r carbon. Some believe they made the rear triangle of the SL4 too stiff FWIW. And now they turned the new Roubaix into a single track bike with skinny tires. No thanks.


----------



## jacksdad

my 2017 SL4 Sport (zertz frame style) is 10r. 

my only gripe right now is I'm beginning to think the seatpost has too much setback. As my riding distances increase I find myself getting very nervous about fit changes but I may just try a pave seatpost to see if it gives up much in smoothness. No question the Sl4 with CGR is a smooth ride and I don't feel the need to get out of the saddle in sections where i'd be standing on my old bike.


----------



## Wetworks

jacksdad said:


> my 2017 SL4 Sport (zertz frame style) is 10r.
> 
> my only gripe right now is I'm beginning to think the seatpost has too much setback. As my riding distances increase I find myself getting very nervous about fit changes but I may just try a pave seatpost to see if it gives up much in smoothness. No question the Sl4 with CGR is a smooth ride and I don't feel the need to get out of the saddle in sections where i'd be standing on my old bike.


CGR gets slammed as gimmicky, and I remember reading a (convincing) comparison that showed it to not be as good as other seatposts. That said, on pavers, my aluminum Diverge DSW with, vs the ride of my aluminum Allez DSW (Comp carbon seatpost) and S-Works Tarmac (S-Works carbon) is significantly better, with all on 25s, same PSI. So it's either the geometry (doubtful), Zertz (again, doubtful) or the CGR (my butt seems to favor this theory). 

As usual, 11spd makes some compelling points, especially about road feedback. Not having ridden the new Roubaix, I cannot speak at all to the point, but having stepped up in class to my Tarmac, I can say I can appreciate what he is referring to as I have a new appreciation for what a bike can tell you about what you're riding on.


----------



## 11spd

jacksdad said:


> my 2017 SL4 Sport (zertz frame style) is 10r.
> 
> my only gripe right now is I'm beginning to think the seatpost has too much setback. As my riding distances increase I find myself getting very nervous about fit changes but I may just try a pave seatpost to see if it gives up much in smoothness. No question the Sl4 with CGR is a smooth ride and I don't feel the need to get out of the saddle in sections where i'd be standing on my old bike.


Well first...never be nervous about fit changes JD...fit changes should always be part of your improvement strategy. Fit is a moving target and most of us can find a better fit than we are currently riding. I have gone thru literally thousands of fit changes and even set up different bikes with different fit to find the elusive balance between power, comfort and aerodynamics.

I personally am not a fan of the COBL post. Look no further than the pro peloton for its popularity....especially in cobble races where you would expect it. Suspiciously absent. Btw, I believe the setback complaint often levied about the post is a myth. OMO. There have been several discussions and Spesh wouldn't put out a post with more than 25mm setback. Most an optical illusion if you believe it has more...it doesn't. 25mm is close to industry standard for a setback post. The single bolt Pave is 20mm I believe....another crappy single bolt post FWIW...the biggest knock I have on any single bolt seatpost which I would never own again. I have ridden the single bolt Pave torqued to spec and it slipped on rough road. Needless and never again.

The FSA Kforce Light is a fantastic 2 bolt...so is Zipp's post...and there are other 2 bolt posts out there that are light, have medium flex and come in different setbacks. For me, I ride the FSA post popular in the pro peloton in 25mm setback with Toupe pushed a bit forward in the rails. I could also ride a 0 offset post pushed a bit rearward as well. Either way.
Good luck


----------



## 1Butcher

As usual, I find it difficult to accept a persons opinion about something they have never ridden. 

Just because the pros do not use it does not mean it's not good. Just because a bike company makes a part does not mean it's made for a pro. It's a giant leap to assume that if a pro does not use it, it's not worth a damn.

I would not purchase a Roubaix because it's not the type of riding I do. I would love to try one out for a day or so to see what it's like.


----------



## young-nyc

Is there any place in the north east coast that have these in stock for test rides?

would be great!


----------



## Devastazione

Stumbled upon Specialized Italy's FB page and got this picture. It's the first picture I see about the new Roubaix that gives and idea of the nice paint details. The bike looks pretty amazing imho,look forward to get one for next year spring sales or wait for the 2018s if eventual tune ups will be made to the futureshock thing. Again,great looking bike.

[IMG]https://i68.tinypic.com/2hhghgj.jpg[/IMG]


----------



## OldChipper

Can we all at least agree that Specialized is winning the ugly bike design race by a mile. I honestly can't think of one more ugly part they could put on this thing. CG-R seatpost, disc brakes, gull wing bars, some funking box thing at the bottom of the main triangle, Face it, fashion aside, they have to paint it black to try to hide the uglification. 

Also, the VERY last thing I want isolated from the road is my steering!


----------



## 11spd

OldChipper said:


> Can we all at least agree that Specialized is winning the ugly bike design race by a mile. I honestly can't think of one more ugly part they could put on this thing. CG-R seatpost, disc brakes, gull wing bars, some funking box thing at the bottom of the main triangle, Face it, fashion aside, they have to paint it black to try to hide the uglification.
> 
> Also, the VERY last thing I want isolated from the road is my steering!


hehe...just like there has never been an ugly baby. 
As to steering..absolutely. In fact, you are making such an important point, all automobiles and motorcycles will have their suspensions removed.


----------



## Rashadabd

In my experience, the Futureshock doesn't impact steering in a negative way at all. You can hit corners the same way you would on any endurance bike with similar handling. If there is any legitimate criticism of the mechanism other than looks, it is in the power transfer/responsiveness department. I did not experience any issue with that on my test ride and it sounds like others in here haven't either. Maybe I was on the stiffer spring setting though, but it worked just fine. Again, I encourage you to try the bike before drawing any conclusions. It's not perfect or a bike that everyone will love by any means (for instance, apparently it's pretty heavy at the reasonably priced levels because all of the extra parts add almost a pound), but it's fun to ride and an interesting development.


----------



## 1Butcher

It is common that some posters will share their advice without any experience with the product. Their choice of words may be the issue. 

As for removing the suspension on cars/motorcycles, suspending the occupants is common with all of those vehicles. It's called foam. Many subframes are isolated with rubber mounts as well as suspension links and arms. Rubber and foam are used to dampen the NHV [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Noise,_vibration,_and_harshness] to the occupants. Semi trucks have isolated the cab with air springs. You should sit is one, the seats have a suspension too. Should I mention that many vehicles have a rubber 'donut' that connects the steering column to the rack? Of course, many steering wheels are isolated with foam too. What about the rubber that attaches the rack to the frame/body. So why should a bicycle be any different? 

I could not imagine a handle bar/seatpost/saddle/frame design that does not want to isolate the vibrations to the rider. Specialized just tried a different way. Time will tell if it works or not. Time will tell if the Peloton will accept it or not. It took time to accept the Venge Vias but the last Tour had a few in them [and won stages too]. We'll see what happens at Roubaix.


----------



## 11spd

Rashadabd said:


> In my experience, the Futureshock doesn't impact steering in a negative way at all. You can hit corners the same way you would on any endurance bike with similar handling. If there is any legitimate criticism of the mechanism other than looks, it is in the power transfer/responsiveness department. I did not experience any issue with that on my test ride and it sounds like others in here haven't either. Maybe I was on the stiffer spring setting though, but it worked just fine. Again, I encourage you to try the bike before drawing any conclusions. It's not perfect or a bike that everyone will love by any mens (for instance, apparently it's pretty heavy at the reasonably priced levels because all of the extra parts add almost a pound), but it's fun to ride and an interesting development.


I rode the new Roubaix Saturday out of my local Spesh dealer. I tested it over about 20 miles…some climbing, out of the saddle sprints, over some rough road but mostly smooth stuff because I don’t ride much on rough road where I live. I prefer my Roubaix SL3 Pro. I don’t like the front shock. It had the medium spring. The rear felt good but so does my SL3 with 23c tires. This new Roubaix had 25c tires.
I prefer my current Roubaix out of the saddle to the new one but this maybe just what I am used to. The new Roubaix feels more disconnected from the road in front which it is…just like riding a 29er with a solid versus suspension fork and why many prefer a solid fork over smoother single track including me.
If you ride rough roads, I am sure this bike is the ticket. If you don’t, as I stated before, there are twenty bikes…including the lower tier solid fork SL4 Roubaix I would prefer. I would get the SL4 Roubaix and spend the money on wheels versus suspension. I prefer the feel of the Emonda and even the Madone to the new Roubaix as well and they each can be had with Trek’s H2 geometry which is in the ballpark of the Roubaix so fit can be duplicated. I also prefer the Emonda and Madone to the redesigned Domane. I don’t like a shock in front on a road bike. If I need more compliance I would opt for 25 or 28c tires. More compliancy needed? A gravel or cross bike with 32c’s. No thank you to a shock in front and of course YMMV and it will. Some will love this new bike.

PS: I also tested the new Venge VIAS a month or so back. Honesty I prefer the ride of the new Venge to the new Roubaix as well because it felt more connected to the road. It steered like it was on rails. For the roads I ride, the VIAS felt just fine in terms of compliance and of course it felt faster…it was lighter, more aero, had higher spec deep Roval wheels and was set up more aggressively. 

Horses for courses. If riding on cobbles…who does that anyway?  the new Roubaix would be the steed. For smooth roads, pick a different bike IMO.


----------



## jacksdad

it's interesting that unsprung weight was brought up in one of the advertiseme....er...I mean reviews. more is a bad thing in cars because the tire can not be kept in contact with the road surface as well. i'm too lazy to look it up but I've read in the past that reducing unsprung weight on a race car is worth a multiple of sprung weight reduction. 

the specialized system makes the entire frame unsprung weight or, in car terms, the entire frame is the wheel/tire as the entire frame has to give then push back. what's more the fulcrum of that lever is ALL THE WAY BACK AT THE REAR TIRE CONTACT POINT. 

this is even more odd considering the association with mcclaren.


----------



## jacksdad

Devastazione said:


> Stumbled upon Specialized Italy's FB page and got this picture. It's the first picture I see about the new Roubaix that gives and idea of the nice paint details. The bike looks pretty amazing imho,look forward to get one for next year spring sales or wait for the 2018s if eventual tune ups will be made to the futureshock thing. Again,great looking bike.
> 
> [IMG]https://i68.tinypic.com/2hhghgj.jpg[/IMG]




80's hair to go with the 80's tech?



It's all good! i'm going to test ride one when I get a chance. not because I think it's the next best thing but because i'm a bike **** and would ride any bike you put under me!


----------



## Chader09

Repeating myself, I like the new Future Shock, but think it is better served for bikes like the Diverge and Crux.

Once it ends up in those, I think it will be more well received since those bikes probably end up in the rougher areas (more often) that make more sense than the Roubaix for most riders.


----------



## 11spd

jacksdad said:


> it's interesting that unsprung weight was brought up in one of the advertiseme....er...I mean reviews. more is a bad thing in cars because the tire can not be kept in contact with the road surface as well. i'm too lazy to look it up but I've read in the past that reducing unsprung weight on a race car is worth a multiple of sprung weight reduction.
> 
> the specialized system makes the entire frame unsprung weight or, in car terms, the entire frame is the wheel/tire as the entire frame has to give then push back. what's more the fulcrum of that lever is ALL THE WAY BACK AT THE REAR TIRE CONTACT POINT.
> 
> this is even more odd considering the association with mcclaren.


You are right about unsprung weight being the enemy for the simple reason of inertia aka momentum. A heavier mass in motion is harder to stop and reverse direction. But, the bike rides decently. There also seems to be a flaw in that the shock seems to be more spring than damper...but no doubt this balance will become better known with time. And the shock will no doubt be improved upon with time as well.

I will give you an analogy between past Roubaixs and Tarmacs as it relates to the new Roubaix which clearly won't be for everybody including this Roubaix owner.
A. You only need more suspension if the roads are rough enough to need more suspension. If all roads were billiard table smooth, one doesn't need suspension...extreme case.

B. Better riders prefer some feedback from the road. This is one of the reasons some may prefer a Tarmac to a Roubaix for example and now the gulf is even wider with the new Roubaix. Some are going to buy this new bike just for the gimmicky value...part of Specialized calculus as well.


----------



## 11spd

Chader09 said:


> Repeating myself, I like the new Future Shock, but think it is better served for bikes like the Diverge and Crux.
> 
> Once it ends up in those, I think it will be more well received since those bikes probably end up in the rougher areas (more often) that make more sense than the Roubaix for most riders.


I pretty much agree. Or...Specialized is simply blurring the line between their endurance and gravel bike. The current Diverge creates more compliancy with a wider tire and lower pressure.
Me personally, I am glad they are keeping the so called 'lower level' SL4 Roubaix with 10r carbon + 11r carbon fork. Btw, I don't want disc brakes either...I live in a flat-ish area as well.


----------



## jacksdad

LOVE my 'lower' SL4! our roads just don't require the suspension headset thing.

Yeah, it'd be nice if the fast guys would stop throwing used up gel packets at me and calling me 'zertz dork' but it's probably better than having random people at rest stops walking up and handing me springs from a bic pen saying 'hey you dropped this back there'.


----------



## 1Butcher

11spd said:


> There also seems to be a flaw in that the shock seems to be more spring than damper.


The flaw might be that you think it's a shock, it's not, it's a spring. 

You have a very well rounded review that I believe is fair. You pointed out the flaws in the roads you ride on would not allow this design to shine. You also mentioned that there may be others where this bike would be better suited for them. I find it also fair that you found the Venge was not that bad. I understand you are not into aero bikes at all. Aero is either growing on you or your growing on aero.

I've read other reviews that riders had a SL4 and a new Roubaix and were riding on roads that full of cobbles. Most [if not all] agreed that the new Roubaix is a big improvement in comfort and with that made it easier to ride the bike. Easier can be that you can go faster.

I'll accept that McLaren has a bit more knowledge about suspension systems [than the posters here] and that's why they chose this design. So I will accept the propaganda that Specialized has preached as somewhat true. Is there room for improvement? Probably, but that is why in a couple of years, they will introduce another model that will make you sell this one to buy the new one.

IF this design is accepted, I'm certain it will go to the other models. The public needs to speak with their wallets.


----------



## jacksdad

McLaren didn't design the shock system.

They gave Spec a software that analyzed bumps or some such thing.


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## 1Butcher

From my understanding, Specialized and McLaren partnered up and worked out something that would work. Who designed what, I do not know. I was not there, but as partners, I believe it would be safe to say they helped design the concept.


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## jacksdad

I would not make that assumption. 

I suspect the marketing budget for the design exceeds the design budget by a factor of 4 or better.

here's a clip from the bike radar 'review' with my thoughts in red:_
Specialized’s design team, led by engineer Chris D’Aluisio and head of applied technologies Chris Yu, set out to discover whether ‘smoother equals faster’, knowing that one of the major selling points of the Roubaix has always been ride comfort. we gave Chris D and Chris Y a slogan from the ad department and told them to make it work

Months of data capture followed using technical partner McLaren’s data logging equipment. “From the data we gathered,” Chris Yu tells us, “McLaren has developed, with our input, a piece of software called the Rolling Efficiency Simulator. Our engineers and designers have used it to design our bikes to meet the needs of any road surface.” IOW we look at rolling resistance. so does that private website guy who tests tires on a drum with his own funding and a few bucks donated here and there

Chris D’Aluisio continues: “As we were gathering the data, taking the bike and rider as one system, we started to see that a benefit of compliance was also traction. If you can keep in contact with the ground more of the time then you’ll have more control and be able to go faster. A McLaren F1 car has suspension but it’s about traction, not comfort.” How are the last two sentences there relevant to each other? how is the last sentence relevant to the bike? it's like they just wanted to use the name 'McLaren'. since the first leaf spring we've all known compliance gives traction if managed correctly. this is like gatorade saying 'lab tests led us to the conclusion that we needed water in our latest energy drink'

The Specialized team knew early on they’d need some form of suspension, and Chris set about building and testing radical prototypes including a linkage fork, and even a mountain bike-like pivot rear end using a version of the Brain system found on its cross-country bikes._Chris set about building and testing, not McLaren


----------



## 1Butcher

And a clip from Cyclingtips For the new Roubaix, Specialized’s and MacLaren’s engineers found that a more conventional suspension unit that provides vertical compliance promised to offer a smoother ride than strategies that focus on fore/aft compliance.

Again, it's like the owner that takes all the credit for a job done well. You can't do one without the other. I suspect they worked together as a team that came out with today's product. Who did what is unfair to the team. Each had their input and their input allowed what was made.

And then the accountants had the final say so.

Again, I was not there.


----------



## Devastazione

jacksdad said:


> I think it's the next best thing but because i'm a bike **** and would ride any bike you put under me!


+1. I love bikes and technology that goes into them. Sitting in the garage ogling at them is part of the joy,let alone taking pride in keep them in tip top conditions. There's rumor in our cycling community and whattsapp groups that says if someone buys a bike from me he should consider the bike newer that when it came out of the shop..


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## TmB123

I came across this video of the spring in action, appears to be a fairly smooth surface but you can see how much it is moving


----------



## TmB123

jacksdad said:


> LOVE my 'lower' SL4! our roads just don't require the suspension headset thing.
> 
> Yeah, it'd be nice if the fast guys would stop throwing used up gel packets at me and calling me 'zertz dork' but it's probably better than having random people at rest stops walking up and handing me springs from a bic pen saying 'hey you dropped this back there'


I've never ridden a Tarmac or Venge, but there is nothing remotely "slow" about a Roubaix SL4. It is more about the rider than the bike. I'm in about the top 15-20% of climbing segments, but the top 1% of descending. I don't see the bike as a limiting factor at all.

must admit, i laughed my ass off at your bic pen comment


----------



## MMsRepBike

The amount of movement is wild. Most people say they can't feel it though.


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## TmB123

MMsRepBike said:


> The amount of movement is wild. Most people say they can't feel it though.


how do you get the video to show up in a thumbnail like that, mine always just show as links, even though I use the little video icon rather than the link one?


----------



## 11spd

TmB123 said:


> I came across this video of the spring in action, appears to be a fairly smooth surface but you can see how much it is moving


I talked to the guy that shot that video and it was reported that they super glued his hands to the hoods. A great bike for those that ride lock armed.


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## Rashadabd

MMsRepBike said:


> The amount of movement is wild. Most people say they can't feel it though.


You can't feel it at all really or at least I couldn't. I intentionally ran over rough spots as well. What it does show you is how much vibration and and how many small micro impacts your body takes on during a normal ride. Cool video.


----------



## MMsRepBike

TmB123 said:


> how do you get the video to show up in a thumbnail like that, mine always just show as links, even though I use the little video icon rather than the link one?


I copy the url from the address bar from the youtube page.
I click the little "Insert Video" button and paste the link there.
That's it.


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## Chader09

Great video. I am surprised to see it working that much on seemingly smooth roads. Might be a god or bad thing depending on your perspective. 

I like the apparent traction when cornering ar speed on the descent.


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## jacksdad

Excellent video. The downhill looks pretty fun!


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## 1Butcher

With all the information about the suspension, no one has mentioned the new screw in BB cups?


----------



## Devastazione

While we're all here making a big fuss out this bike nobody wondered yet what bike will be used at next Paris Roubaix,'coz this thing has disc brakes,'ya know..


----------



## Rashadabd

Devastazione said:


> While we're all here making a big fuss out this bike nobody wondered yet what bike will be used at next Paris Roubaix,'coz this thing has disc brakes,'ya know..


The Spec. sponsored teams have an inventory of SL4 Roubaix bikes to cover them until disc brakes are authorized, but my guess is that they will make some rim brake versions for the team to get the technology out there.


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## jacksdad

i'll bet a McDonalds Happy Meal we don't see the spring headset thing in major pro events.


ever.


----------



## MMsRepBike

jacksdad said:


> i'll bet a McDonalds Happy Meal we don't see the spring headset thing in major pro events.
> 
> 
> ever.


I'll take that.

The big S has a reputation for pushing new technology on their pro riders to advertise it. Even if that technology is dangerous, they're going to push it on them.

It backfired on them some with the new Venge and it's brakes. Having multiple pros like Cav refusing to ride the bike ended up being bad press I think. After that lesson they'll hopefully wise up, but like I mentioned earlier, this doesn't come off as dangerous to me so I see nothing stopping them from shoving it down the throats of all of the pros they sponsor. I too think they'd put out a rim brake version, even if just for the pros, in order to get the new bike out there being advertised.


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## jacksdad

Good stuff! Stay in touch please, i will make good on it IF it happens!

Now i've got a dog in the hunt and will enjoy watching the progress and implementation of this technology!


----------



## Rashadabd

jacksdad said:


> i'll bet a McDonalds Happy Meal we don't see the spring headset thing in major pro events.
> 
> 
> ever.


If I were a gambling man, I would take you up on that offer any day (but let you keep the deadly happy meal, lol.) The reasons are simple. First, the new Roubaix was designed with the cobbles of Paris Roubaix in mind, that's the whole point:

First Ride: 2017 Specialized Roubaix | Bicycling

Canadian Cyclist review-2017-specialized-roubaix

Second, Trek's team has been successfully racing at the pro level using their company's version of this technology for at least three seasons (and they just updated it: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OP80n76nz4Y . Team Sky have been racing on Pinarello's version for at least two (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aRpShf-epYQ) , so basically Specialized is kind of playing catch up on some level. 

Finally, and maybe your biggest clue is that if you look at the pictures from the first two articles I linked, you will see Tom Boonen's pre-production bike. This is likely the sample pro bike they are developing for the teams. For years, Specialized has been making slightly altered/modified versions of the Roubaix for their pro teams. These are racier with lower headtubes, etc. and are not offered to the public. That's exactly what Boonen has there. They don't just make those things for fun. I am pretty close to 100% certain that the moment discs are authorized (not a second later), you will see pros with both this bike and the Venge Vias Disc under them.


----------



## Chader09

1Butcher said:


> With all the information about the suspension, no one has mentioned the new screw in BB cups?


I am all for this as well.

They also used threaded BB in the new Enduro MTB. My fingers are crossed that they are making the change back for all future redesigns of current models.


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## 11spd

jacksdad said:


> i'll bet a McDonalds Happy Meal we don't see the spring headset thing in major pro events.
> 
> 
> ever.


Believe you will see the pogo headset in the classics races over terrain not many of us ride...ever....because modern roads aren't cobbles. 

As to disc brakes in the Classics races this has already been discussed at Specialized among their pro riders. Redesigning a frameset designed for discs to make it for calipers isn't a small undertaking. Team consensus is for Classics races...the only place the Roubaix is professionally ridden, because the speeds are lower, the bikes will be brakeless and pro riders have agreed to ride platform pedals and drag their feet to stop.


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## 11spd

Chader09 said:


> I am all for this as well.
> 
> They also used threaded BB in the new Enduro MTB. My fingers are crossed that they are making the change back for all future redesigns of current models.


Comp level Tarmacs are BSA as well. Hope springs eternal.


----------



## Chader09

11spd said:


> Comp level Tarmacs are BSA as well. Hope springs eternal.


Oh, I hadn't seen that. Gooder news 

Get a few more from them, maybe Trek will swing that direction too and start the cascade back to normality?

Then we can work on putting this PF BB BS to bed and look back on this as one of those silly side roads "the industry" takes us on every once in a while.


----------



## 11spd

Chader09 said:


> Oh, I hadn't seen that. Gooder news
> 
> Get a few more from them, maybe Trek will swing that direction too and start the cascade back to normality?
> 
> Then we can work on putting this PF BB BS to bed and look back on this as one of those silly side roads "the industry" takes us on every once in a while.


It just isn't that simple for mfr's other than Specialized whose chainstay and downtube junctures are designed to work with a 68mm BB shell width that can be easily converted to BSA from BB30..esssentially just changing the insert molded alloy cylinder that comprises either. By contrast, most manufacturers have a wide shell...86-90mm which allows for wider chainstays and downtube juncture. So if other manufacturers attempt to 'regress' their BB designs to a narrower BSA shell, then of course they would have to redesign their bikes and give up all their marketing blather about their bikes having superior lateral stiffness and therefore greater power transfer which most of us know that have ridden most of the top frames for mortals at least to be utter BS as testament to how many champions have won tour events on Spesh bikes.. Some very high watt riders have done just fine with Specialized 68mm BB30 width and even their crappier and now thankfully disconnected narrow version of PF30 they called carbon OSBB with 61mm shell width. May it rest in peace.


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## 1Butcher

If you wanted to change the BB to a threaded version, you could just change the cups to threads too. Keep the rest the same, just put threads on it. No major changes needed. Just because it is BSA, you do not have to stick with the width.

Yes, there are some companies that press there bearing into the frame, but many have some type of cup that it's pressed into first. Just design the cup with threads.


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## 11spd

1Butcher said:


> If you wanted to change the BB to a threaded version, you could just change the cups to threads too. Keep the rest the same, just put threads on it. No major changes needed. Just because it is BSA, you do not have to stick with the width.
> 
> Yes, there are some companies that press there bearing into the frame, but many have some type of cup that it's pressed into first. Just design the cup with threads.


Wrong. Width matters. Threaded BB's are designed for outboard bearings. If a threaded BB were created by threading the cups you mention...and many are the wrong ID anyway...then the outboard bearings on a 86-90mm wide BB shell would stick out too far killing Q-factor if you could even find a crank to fit which doesn't exist. All wide BB shells like BBright, BB86,BB90 etc have the bearings sitting inside the shell to keep the crank arms close enough together to not destroy Q factor.

As to threading cups you mention, Specialized doesn't use cups FWIW..be it for BB30 or BSA. They use a cylinder which is dimensionally more robust in terms of lower axial tolerances. There is little difference between the insert molded BSA alloy cylinder and a BB30 alloy cylinder used on Specialized carbon frames...the same can be used in similar molds with a slight tweak...they are dimensionally close which gives Specialized the freedom to choose either for a given frameset.


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## 1Butcher

My words may not to becoming out right so I will try again.

If you press in a cup, why can't you design a cup with threads? I understand there are a few designs that the bearings press directly into a frame, but I'm not talking about those [but I do believe you could design that to be threaded too and keep the proper width]. Why do they have to stick with the English threads, they could design something different. You could use a lock ring, I do not know, but everything pressed could be designed threaded.

The good thing is that Specialized seems to be going back to a tried and true design. Sometimes engineering something new, does not make it better.


----------



## 11spd

1Butcher said:


> My words may not to becoming out right so I will try again.
> 
> If you press in a cup, why can't you design a cup with threads? I understand there are a few designs that the bearings press directly into a frame, but I'm not talking about those [but I do believe you could design that to be threaded too and keep the proper width]. Why do they have to stick with the English threads, they could design something different. You could use a lock ring, I do not know, but everything pressed could be designed threaded.
> 
> The good thing is that Specialized seems to be going back to a tried and true design. Sometimes engineering something new, does not make it better.


I understand what you are saying but there is no workaround for most race bikes out there that are press fit and not BB30. Simple reason is as I state. Threaded BB's are designed for external bearings and in the case of Trek, Giant, Cervelo and countless other top makes who use wide shell press fit technology (Spesh is the exception with its conventional 68mm shell width) no current crank will fit.

Further, you are simply exchanging problems by using threaded press fit cups. The problem isn't the thread interface...threaded cups can be manufactured, but you still chase the design to its weakest link which is the press fit when there are cantilever forces on the crank spindle based upon pedal forces which there are. A press fit is more sensitive to axial loading compared to a threaded interface and if manufacturers do what you suggest, there is no benefit, you are still stuck with a press fit. In fact many press fit integrated bearing designs like Shimano Press Fit for example which are functional but not as robust as their exceptional BSA BB's work pretty well with Loctite and would work better than the belt and suspenders approach you propose...press fit cups that are threaded because of one fewer interface. Integrated bearing cups capture bearings effectively so they don't move unlike PF30 for example that Specialized dropped for good reason.

Your last sentence is spot on....and many bike owners have suffered with press fit. Specialized narrow version of PF30 with Delrin cups that they used on their their 'top' Sworks race bikes is arguably the worst BB design ever conceived. Finally after too many years they replaced it with BB30 which they have sold for years on their lower level models including 10r carbon Pro and Expert models just below their Sworks bike.


----------



## tyrich88

11spd said:


> Believe you will see the pogo headset in the classics races over terrain not many of us ride...ever....because modern roads aren't cobbles.
> 
> As to disc brakes in the Classics races this has already been discussed at Specialized among their pro riders. Redesigning a frameset designed for discs to make it for calipers isn't a small undertaking. Team consensus is for Classics races...the only place the Roubaix is professionally ridden, because the speeds are lower, the bikes will be brakeless and pro riders have agreed to ride platform pedals and drag their feet to stop.


FINALLY the change i've been waiting for! Brakes just slow you down anyways!!!


----------



## 1Butcher

There are a lot of noisy BB caused by the cups loose in the BB, not bearings loose in the cups [yes, they can be an issue too]. A threaded cup would certainly keep the cup from moving in the BB, certainly much more secure than a press fit cup. I could see that someone could come up with a large PF30 threaded cup and not have to go with the English standard.

I understand what your saying about external bearings, but that is not the cause of the noise. The cause is because the bearings/cup interface is not secured to the BB. Gluing can help, but it's a band-aid on a poor design.

Having the bearings internal is a better way for certain.


----------



## 11spd

1Butcher said:


> There are a lot of noisy BB caused by the cups loose in the BB, not bearings loose in the cups [yes, they can be an issue too]. A threaded cup would certainly keep the cup from moving in the BB, certainly much more secure than a press fit cup. I could see that someone could come up with a large PF30 threaded cup and not have to go with the English standard.
> 
> I understand what your saying about external bearings, but that is not the cause of the noise. The cause is because the bearings/cup interface is not secured to the BB. Gluing can help, but it's a band-aid on a poor design.
> 
> Having the bearings internal is a better way for certain.


I think what we would need for anything approaching a cogent discussion would be for you to sketch out your design based upon a particular bike brand and model.
Otherwise you are purely speculating and based upon what you have written, I have addressed the problems with what you propose.

We maybe talking past one another without drawings. To add any veracity to the conversation:
1. pick a bike brand, model and BB
2. measure the interface
3. create your redesign including your proposed internally threaded BB.
4. determine if a current crankset could be adopted.

Otherwise, I can tell you that all bikes can have a supplement motor in the BB rated at 400w that weighs 10 grams and that wouldn't be true either. 
Show me. 

Only thing new under the sun which isn't anything new really but a derivative of BSA is as follows...but only works for 68mm shell width:
First Look: T47 Bottom Bracket Standard | Bicycling


----------



## 5DII

While on the topic of BBs, which adaptor/BB are the current pro teams on specialized bikes using for their shimano cranksets?


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## 11spd

5DII said:


> While on the topic of BBs, which adaptor/BB are the current pro teams on specialized bikes using for their shimano cranksets?


Good question. Unless up close and personal, I don’t believe a solid answer could be found. Because of the frequency of changes to the BB due to racing, my presumption is most if not all pro teams use Wheel Manufacturing Spacers, or equivalent... to account for lateral and radial spacing from BB30 30mm ID to Shimano DA 24mm spindle OD, the DA crank being designed for BSA with outboard bearings so it has a longer spindle than std BB30 as well. This is by far the most common means to adapt a Shimano crank to Spesh BB30 bikes and many times a Specialized frameset will come with these adapters. It really works quite well if the BB30 bearings are Loctited in place. Some will go with Praxis but the Praxis sleeve isn’t perfect either when mounting a Shimano crank to a BB30 frame. Some Praxis sleeves have been known to creak as well because one side of the Praxis sleeve is a semi press fit not much unlike a BB30 bearing pressed into a BB30 frame. Overall length of the Praxis sleeve is controlled by a threaded stop and length tolerance taken up with a rubber O-ring…so again the interface is sensitive to tolerances…both radial and lateral of the frame. For me, with a BB30 frame, I would Loctite BB30 bearings to the frame and install a DA crank with Wheel Mfg Spacers, properly adjust the preload of the crank with provided plastic thumb wheel and call it good. Race teams wouldn’t bother with Loctite. With a 100 mile tour stage, a little grease and proper crank preload is even money to stay quiet and if it doesn’t in the heat of pro racing, not many are listening and if they are, bearing get swapped out every or every other race anyway.


----------



## 1Butcher

It appears that Chris King has done what I'm trying to say. Why press when you could develop a threaded lock? How hard was it for Chris King to say 'Why don't we just thread the hole and cups?' That is what I was saying. Plain and simple.

11sp, you know I'm a mechanic. My job is to fix what the engineers have designed. I have had to fix all the engineers screw ups to keep my customers happy for many years. While coming up with good repairs, I've always asked, Why did the engineers do it this way [BMW engineers are the worst]? I could not imagine that I would develop a press fit nut and bolt and more on topic, a new BB standard. It's a recipe for disaster.

If I was an engineer, I would provide all the drawings your asking for. Since you're an engineer, it would be interesting to see what you would make to address bike companies goals to make a frame lighter, cheaper, and easier to manufacture.


----------



## 11spd

1Butcher said:


> It appears that Chris King has done what I'm trying to say. Why press when you could develop a threaded lock? How hard was it for Chris King to say 'Why don't we just thread the hole and cups?' That is what I was saying. Plain and simple.
> 
> 11sp, you know I'm a mechanic. My job is to fix what the engineers have designed. I have had to fix all the engineers screw ups to keep my customers happy for many years. While coming up with good repairs, I've always asked, Why did the engineers do it this way [BMW engineers are the worst]? I could not imagine that I would develop a press fit nut and bolt and more on topic, a new BB standard. It's a recipe for disaster.
> 
> If I was an engineer, I would provide all the drawings your asking for. Since you're an engineer, it would be interesting to see what you would make to address bike companies goals to make a frame lighter, cheaper, and easier to manufacture.


As an enginner, as it turns out, there are a lot of misconceptions about engineers. For example what you wrote in this post, I agree with. We were talking past one another because we didn’t have any drawings…just words that were misunderstood. For example you ‘seemed’ to write that it was ok to have a press AND a thread versus just a thread. Further, when I brought up why the design I just showed you…the T47 won’t work for the vast majority of top bikes, your response was…it could be done for wide BB shell bikes, just design the bearings to be inside the shell. I said show me. You could create some hand sketches and post them. It isn’t hard for a mechanic or a brick layer to do that. For the T47 BB the bearings are outside the shell because they are large which makes the design robust. Same thing for BSA…bearings are outside the shell. If you put them inside the shell and add a thread, then you have to make the BB shell even bigger.
So much can be written about why designs develop. I know many BMW engineers. I know how they think. A subset of BMW’s engineers are the smartest people you will ever meet. Not all are. Designs are about profit. What creates profit? Market differentiation. Bang for buck….or perceived bang for buck. What makes BMW’s stand out? Because they are different. The public is sold on their exclusivity when a Toyota that costs much less may have the same performance and be more reliable because they are not laden with complexity for complexity sake to upsell the public on what they don’t need. Perception.

Much of the time its about what design change is perceived to add value which can be largely a myth perpetrated with an eye toward marketing a product to set it apart to sell more…and design changes are about lowering cost, not actually improving the product. Actual benefit or improvement many times doesn’t matter. The average consumer doesn’t have a clue. Its what can be sold to the public to extract more money. Is a Rolex really better than a Casio? Aside from jewelry value, a Casio will probably keep better time, even under water.

Why did BB30 come into being?...or dramatically different PF30 with delrin bushings of all things? Marketing and manufacturing cost. The customer (us) were sold a bill of goods by the bike industry when BB30 was released by a given bike brand because it was touted as being stiffer and lighter. Press fit BB’s are $h!t compared to outboard bearing BSA from a reliability standpoint. The difference in crank stiffness for a 25mm Campy UT or 24mm spindle DA crank and a 30mm BB30 is imperceptible even for a world class rider. The minute weight different is nebulous compared to constant creaking of press fit BB’s unless they aren’t installed perfectly and even that isn’t a guarantee due to tolerance stack up. Yes, you can make a 30mm spindle fractionally lighter with thinner wall and it will be plenty stiff, but they didn’t have to throw the thread out the window when its known there are axial loads on bearings due to pedal forces that try to peel bearings out of a BB and a press has a much poorer retention than a thread. So if there is a debacle to write about in the bicycle industry, the press fit bottom bracket changes are the absolute worst for the average consumer as the article points out in more PC terms.
So something like T47 is better. But, there is not a single thing wrong with BSA and Campy UT with threaded cups or DA and thread in BB outboard bearing cups. Both are superb. Can you do this with a wider shell and have the bearings be threaded into the BB shell? Probably with some development. But again for what gain? Who can tell the difference in BB bracket stiffness between the top race bike from Giant, Cervelo or Trek all with wide shell BB versus a Pinarello Dogma F8 with 68mm threaded BSA BB or Specialized Sworks BB30 also with 68mm shell width? Not me or anybody I know. Both Froome and Sagan who race with 68mm shell width last time I looked have done just fine beating the world on them. So the wide shell tech is just marketing. Sure a wide shell makes sense from a stiffness to weight ratio sense, but in actual practice the difference is negligible. Just like difference between BSA and BB30 is meanlingless other than BB30 is a much bigger PITA because idiots that created BB30 wanted to set themselves apart from the industry to carve out a marketing niche to sell their product as more exclusive all while making it for lower cost or at least the same cost as BSA. Kind of like the BMW mantra which the ignorant public gobbles up until they own two of them which are constantly in the shop and then go buy a Lexus or if smarter, a Toyota.


----------



## 1Butcher

11spd said:


> . Can you do this with a wider shell and have the bearings be threaded into the BB shell? Probably with some development.


And that is what I was saying. Thanks for coming around and proving my point.

I'm not certain where I came across with 'For example you ‘seemed’ to write that it was ok to have a press AND a thread versus just a thread' But what I probably was trying to say, it's ok to press the bearing into a cup and ok to thread the cup into the BB. Pressing a cup with an external bearing does not make sense to me, but probably makes cents to the manufacturer.

As for a BMW engineer, I believe if any of them worked on one, I bet they would change a few things. I can help them with one, rotate the hose clamp on a N54 thermostat so you do not have to remove half the car to get to it. When us mechanics reassemble it, we do so it's easier to put back together. About 20 degrees would save a bunch of time. An E65 would benefit with a bit more room to remove the starter. It would also save about 7 hours too.

Anyway, we should get back to the Roubaix thread. Thanks for being cordial.


----------



## 11spd

1Butcher said:


> And that is what I was saying. Thanks for coming around and proving my point.
> 
> I'm not certain where I came across with 'For example you ‘seemed’ to write that it was ok to have a press AND a thread versus just a thread' But what I probably was trying to say, it's ok to press the bearing into a cup and ok to thread the cup into the BB. Pressing a cup with an external bearing does not make sense to me, but probably makes cents to the manufacturer.
> 
> As for a BMW engineer, I believe if any of them worked on one, I bet they would change a few things. I can help them with one, rotate the hose clamp on a N54 thermostat so you do not have to remove half the car to get to it. When us mechanics reassemble it, we do so it's easier to put back together. About 20 degrees would save a bunch of time. An E65 would benefit with a bit more room to remove the starter. It would also save about 7 hours too.
> 
> Anyway, we should get back to the Roubaix thread. Thanks for being cordial.


As far as cordiality, 50% of rancor on the internet is due to misunderstanding one another and why debates become heated. Much is lost in the written word.

Will give you an example. You wrote: "_Pressing a cup with an external bearing does not make sense to me, but probably makes cents to the manufacturer._"

I am trying to find any substance in your words but can't. I have to believe you meant something else. Where is pressing a cup with an external bearing used in the industry anywhere? Only place I know of which was a rubbish kluge...was Campy outboard cups pressed into a BB30 or PF30 press fit frame when wanting to run a Campy UT crank. Only application I can think of. It isn't done, so no idea why you would even bring it up as it this type of kluge accounts for probably .00001% of all the bikes produced.

So perhaps it was your choice of words and you meant something completely different as I see no relevance of your comment to discussion. On virtually ALL press fit BB's in the industry, bearings are never external, they are internal and sit/pressed inside bores internal the BB shell.


----------



## 1Butcher

Why would I mention that? Maybe because, I have a carbon OSBB with a Campy UT crank? Since that is what I have, that is my experience. But, correct me if I'm wrong, what about a BB30 to 24mm conversions? Aren't those bearings outboard too? So, instead of indicating my statement is rubbish, maybe you could research and see if my statement could possibly true. 

Since it is true, isn't it a bad design? A press fit with an external bearing? And if that is true, then what is the advantage of that kind of design? More money saved for the business [makes 'cents']? 

Review: Parlee BB30/PFBB30-to-Shimano Bottom Bracket Adapters - Bikerumor
https://www.chrisking.com/product/conversion-kit-1/
The links are posted to assist you in seeing what I'm seeing. 

Yes, words sometimes do not express the intent very well, but sometimes it's not caused by the words used, but how the reader is interpreting them.


----------



## 11spd

1Butcher said:


> Why would I mention that? Maybe because, I have a carbon OSBB with a Campy UT crank? Since that is what I have, that is my experience. But, correct me if I'm wrong, what about a BB30 to 24mm conversions? Aren't those bearings outboard too? So, instead of indicating my statement is rubbish, maybe you could research and see if my statement could possibly true.
> 
> Since it is true, isn't it a bad design? A press fit with an external bearing? And if that is true, then what is the advantage of that kind of design? More money saved for the business [makes 'cents']?
> 
> Review: Parlee BB30/PFBB30-to-Shimano Bottom Bracket Adapters - Bikerumor
> https://www.chrisking.com/product/conversion-kit-1/
> The links are posted to assist you in seeing what I'm seeing.
> 
> Yes, words sometimes do not express the intent very well, but sometimes it's not caused by the words used, but how the reader is interpreting them.


We could go round and round about this. It is your choice to deviate from Specialized design intent. You mentioned bike manufacturers. No bike manufacturer spec's a press fit with bearings outside the BB shell. It is only makers like Parlee and Campy that do this...so they can sell 'their' products. BB30 or carbon OSBB are not designed for Campy UT cranks...or really for Shimano cranks either for that matter. Wheel manufacturing spacers + BB30 bearings pressed inside the BB shell is MUCH better than Parlee or Campy press fit outboard cups because the bearings are better supported inside the shell. All adaptations to mount a Campy UT crank to a carbon OSBB which Specialized discontinued for good reason is your choice. I would never use the Parlee or Campy press fit cups. Both are an accident in waiting. YMMV.

Campy finally answered the bell unlike Shimano when it came to BB/PF30. They came out with a long spindle 30mm crank called OverTorque. If running BB30 or PF30, OverTorque works better in conjunction with a PF30 BB like you have (Spesh's is 61mm wide) with spacers on each side for the long spindle used in conjunction with an inexpensive BB like this one:
wiggle.com | FSA PF30 MTB BB | Bottom Brackets

The reason this BB is so much better is because the BB shell supports the bearings inside their press fit bores versus outside like the Parlee BB you show.

We may have some common ground if you believe having bearings outboard of a press fit is a poor design. It is. It is a VERY bad design. But what you said about bike manufacturers having this design isn't true. They don't. Companies like Parlee and Campy sell these BB's to make money.

Praxis and Wheel Mfg. both make a outboard bearing BB that works well with a variety of cranks with BB/PF30. This is because each side of the BB is connected to each other and the bearings can't peel away from the frame as with a press fit.


----------



## Chader09

I don't like to be that guy, but maybe a separate BB thread (sry 4 da pun) is in order?


----------



## dougrocky123

I did a short demo ride of the new Roubaix Expert. I liked it. The front end works well. I felt the back end didn't quite smooth the road as much. If I bought the bike I would probably try a 28mm tire in back and run a little lower pressure.


----------



## 11spd

Chader09 said:


> I don't like to be that guy, but maybe a separate BB thread (sry 4 da pun) is in order?


You're right. Sorry about the distraction. Back to the 2017 Roubaix.
Cheers


----------



## Jackhammer

*You should've kept resisting.*



11spd said:


> I've resisted weighing in until now about the new Roubaix. I own a Roubaix SL3 Pro I built frameset up. Best bike I have ever owned. Me personally? There are probably 20 bikes I would prefer to the new Roubaix. I don't want a bike with a spring loaded steerer. I believe the rear is well executed only without the COBL post which is virtually abandoned by all pro riders in the peloton who ride the cobbles in the classics for a living. A seat post can easily be changed since it is std 27.2mm dia. The front end however..not so much because the flexure properties of the older Roubaix front fork have been designed out of the new Roubaix because of the compressing steerer which I don't want.
> 
> For enthusiast riders, much is written about feedback from the road. It is for example why some prefer a Tarmac to the older Roubaix for example and the new Roubaix is simply worse in rider feedback...more isolation. All said, if riding on broken roads which I don't, the new Roubaix would be a good bike....or a current Roubaix with 28c tires...or a Diverge or equivalent with 32c's. I don't want a compressing front fork on my road bike. Heck, even riding a 29er off road, I have swapped out a $600 suspension fork with even a lock out feature for a rigid front fork for more control.
> 
> A guy like me maybe a viable candidate for the new Roubaix, but I'm not. Nor do I want disk brakes on my road bike for that matter. Late model Shimano Ultegra to DA caliper brakes are simply amazing and yes, I own disk brake bikes I prefer off road on wider tired bikes.
> 
> My vote...new Roubaix isn't for me. Glad they still offer the SL4 Roubaix with 10r carbon if you can find one without disk brakes and spend the money on wheels and the proper tires for the road surfaces you ride.
> 
> 
> A last note. On my daily 20 mile ride, there is only one section of broken road which is less than 1/8 mile or so. I ride my current Roubaix with 23c tires with high pressure. I don't need wider tires pumped to a lower pressure for compliance. For the roads I ride, my bike is perfect...not too stiff and not too soft. I ride with fast guys. I don't need or want more compliance. I don't want to ride a marshmallow or pogo stick ...nor do I want to ride a bike like a Scott Foil that will loosen your fillings. While the SL2 Roubaix was a bit soft...too soft although Sworks 10r version of that older bike wasn't too bad, they nailed the stiffness to compliance ratio of the SL3 with 10-11r carbon. Some believe they made the rear triangle of the SL4 too stiff FWIW. And now they turned the new Roubaix into a single track bike with skinny tires. No thanks.



Interview with Richard Sachs: :The Rivendell Reader | RICHARD SACHS CYCLES


----------



## 11spd

Jackhammer said:


> Interview with Richard Sachs: :The Rivendell Reader | RICHARD SACHS CYCLES


Both Richard Sachs and Cervelo started making bicycles in their garage. Its no surprise that Cervelo's bikes are raced in the TdF and Sach's frames never were.
Almost sad all the sheep that don't know any better that buy one of his frame's. 80's tech, i.e. no tech. Richard Sachs is a decent artisan and nothing more. The boutique bike industry is littered with guys like him that people waste their money on. People would be better off buying a 35 lb stove pipe Schwinn at a garage sale and hanging low level Campy and a cheap modern wheelset on.

I like this:
_*Where do you get customers now?*_
I think there are people that have different sensibilities. Maybe their sensibilities are fine-tuned, or maybe they’re attaching something to my bikes that really shouldn’t be attached, but I get the person who wants something that doesn’t constitute a compromise. People want a bike from me because I have “X” amount of years of experience and stay pretty true to the company line, whatever that is, by being a one-man shop.
I feel like I live outside the bike business and watch it from the sidelines. The people who get my bikes are probably people that would not normally go to a bike store to get their really fine bike. They might get their first bike or their second or third bike, but they know ultimately that they want the experience of having me measure them; me deciding what is best and me building it in a fashion that would guarantee that it rides well and looks good.


He should have written:
The world is full of dumb people. Some dumb people associate exclusivity for being better when in reality you are sometimes paying more for less. There is no greater example of that than a Rivendell bike. The only thing that Grant Peterson offers of value is his fit philosophy and even that the average guy doesn't need clipless pedals which I also agree with. His bikes are an abomination for what you get for the dollar.


----------



## Jackhammer

11spd said:


> Both Richard Sachs and Cervelo started making bicycles in their garage. Its no surprise that Cervelo's bikes are raced in the TdF and Sach's frames never were.
> Almost sad all the sheep that don't know any better that buy one of his frame's. 80's tech, i.e. no tech. Richard Sachs is a decent artisan and nothing more. The boutique bike industry is littered with guys like him that people waste their money on. People would be better off buying a 35 lb stove pipe Schwinn at a garage sale and hanging low level Campy and a cheap modern wheelset on.
> 
> I like this:
> _*Where do you get customers now?*_
> I think there are people that have different sensibilities. Maybe their sensibilities are fine-tuned, or maybe they’re attaching something to my bikes that really shouldn’t be attached, but I get the person who wants something that doesn’t constitute a compromise. People want a bike from me because I have “X” amount of years of experience and stay pretty true to the company line, whatever that is, by being a one-man shop.
> I feel like I live outside the bike business and watch it from the sidelines. The people who get my bikes are probably people that would not normally go to a bike store to get their really fine bike. They might get their first bike or their second or third bike, but they know ultimately that they want the experience of having me measure them; me deciding what is best and me building it in a fashion that would guarantee that it rides well and looks good.
> 
> 
> He should have written:
> The world is full of dumb people. Some dumb people associate exclusivity for being better when in reality you are sometimes paying more for less. There is no greater example of that than a Rivendell bike. The only thing that Grant Peterson offers of value is his fit philosophy and even that the average guy doesn't need clipless pedals which I also agree with. His bikes are an abomination for what you get for the dollar.


Lol! Was Sean Kelly as fast as the guys you ride with?

Icons of cycling: Sean Kelly's cobble-busting Vitus 979 - Cycling Weekly


----------



## jacksdad

11spd I got the same impression. The guy seems to be making excuses for not being able to afford to apply technology. As you said some poeple believe exclusive = good. I think every hobby has people like that.


----------



## 11spd

Jackhammer said:


> Lol! Was Sean Kelly as fast as the guys you ride with?
> 
> Icons of cycling: Sean Kelly's cobble-busting Vitus 979 - Cycling Weekly


You are conflating a given rider with a given bike. Top riders win races on any type of bike.

You don't seem to have an independent thought. Perhaps you could make one. Do you agree with the new Roubaix tech? I ride a current Roubaix and don't want a bike with a front shock. How about you? Who gives a flip about whippy Al bikes ridden in the cobble classics? How does that relate to the average rider here who doesn't ride on cobble roads? Why aren't there whippy Al bikes ridden in the modern classics now? Because tech has moved on. Expect to see the new Roubaix raced in the classics...probably with the heaviest front spring available almost giving a rigid front end spring rate. It may not even win. Who cares.
Why don't you try to make a point. You haven't yet. Frame stiffness doesn't matter?
Sure it does. Ever ridden a Scott Foil....or older Celvelo S5? Both will shake your filling out. I have owned steel bikes that were more like trampolines that would go airborne over rough road. There is a sweet spot. It just isn't the same for everybody. If I rode cobbles everyday and I never ride cobbles, I would want the new Roubaix...or...a flex friendly bike with 32c tires and lower pressure.

Go ahead and make a point if you have one. Rivendell bikes are still a huge waste of money...even if you like steel and there is no reason to ride a Vitus when modern tech produces bikes with a much better ride and better lateral stiffness and power transfer. A pro on a Huffy would drop anybody on this forum on any bike.


----------



## 11spd

jacksdad said:


> 11spd I got the same impression. The guy seems to be making excuses for not being able to afford to apply technology. As you said some poeple believe exclusive = good. I think every hobby has people like that.


Well...hard to know what his point is...other than frame stiffness and/or having a front shock doesn't matter. Of course it does. Do most of us want or need a front shock? I don't. But I don't want to ride a bike with the stiffness of a CAAD3 either. There are gradations in between depending on weight of rider, rider strength and what kind of roads are ridden on. Sachs comments about frame stiffness being unknowable and a metric he doesn't care about reflect his personal ignorance....when bikes are created now on CAD with FEA on computers and ride tested and evaluated by teams of engineers with superior knowledge and are even cheaper to buy than boutique bikes which are the same waste of money a Rolex is.


----------



## Jackhammer

11spd said:


> You are conflating a given rider with a given bike. Top riders win races on any type of bike.
> 
> You don't seem to have an independent thought. Perhaps you could make one. Do you agree with the new Roubaix tech? I ride a current Roubaix and don't want a bike with a front shock. How about you? Who gives a flip about whippy Al bikes ridden in the cobble classics? How does that relate to the average rider here who doesn't ride on cobble roads? Why aren't there whippy Al bikes ridden in the modern classics now? Because tech has moved on. Expect to see the new Roubaix raced in the classics...probably with the heaviest front spring available almost giving a rigid front end spring rate. It may not even win. Who cares.
> Why don't you try to make a point. You haven't yet. Frame stiffness doesn't matter?
> Sure it does. Ever ridden a Scott Foil....or older Celvelo S5? Both will shake your filling out. I have owned steel bikes that were more like trampolines that would go airborne over rough road. There is a sweet spot. It just isn't the same for everybody. If I rode cobbles everyday and I never ride cobbles, I would want the new Roubaix...or...a flex friendly bike with 32c tires and lower pressure.
> 
> Go ahead and make a point if you have one. Rivendell bikes are still a huge waste of money...even if you like steel and there is no reason to ride a Vitus when modern tech produces bikes with a much better ride and better lateral stiffness and power transfer. A pro on a Huffy would drop anybody on this forum on any bike.


Your anger is getting in the way of seeing any points other than the pedantic ones you're trying but failing to make. 

I made a "point" with my first post in this thread, and you came back with your silliness about stiffness. 


Of course the "stiffness fairytale" matters, just not as much as you think it does.


----------



## 11spd

Jackhammer said:


> Your anger is getting in the way of seeing any points other than the pedantic ones you're trying but failing to make.
> 
> I made a "point" with my first post in this thread, and you came back with your silliness about stiffness.
> 
> 
> Of course the "stiffness fairytale" matters, just not as much as you think it does.


Anger? You must have a history of being misguided. I view your posts more as pathetic or laughable. Not only your inability to make a point, but also the fact you are wrong. Stiffness matters not only in terms of ride quality, but handling and power transfer. Ask anybody who has owned a SL2 Roubaix versus SL3 or SL4. The bikes ride completely differently and yet have the same stack and reach.

You still haven't made a cogent point. All you do is link guys from the stone age.
Go ahead and make a technical argument. Of course you can't.

So you live in the world of fairies...taking the side of a goof ball that still builds bikes in his parent's (Grant) basement. Sorry to throw your retrogrouch narrative under the bus. Some never move out of the stone age....you.


----------



## Jackhammer

11spd said:


> Anger? You must have a history of being misguided. I view your posts more as pathetic or laughable. Not only your inability to make a point, but also the fact you are wrong. Stiffness matters not only in terms of ride quality, but handling and power transfer. Ask anybody who has owned a SL2 Roubaix versus SL3 or SL4. The bikes ride completely differently and yet have the same stack and reach.
> 
> You still haven't made a cogent point. All you do is link guys from the stone age.
> Go ahead and make a technical argument. Of course you can't.
> 
> So you live in the world of fairies...taking the side of a goof ball that still builds bikes in his parent's (Grant) basement. Sorry to throw your retrogrouch narrative under the bus. Some never move out of the stone age....you.


A little early to get so worked up?

You didn't see the "stiffness fairytale" thread started by the physicist? 

It went on forever and brought out all the engineers with insecurity complexes who'd be dropped by their fast riding buddies had they not had the perfect blend of stiffness and ride characteristics exemplified by the Sl3 Roubaix, the be all, end all, of the bicycle world.

I take it your "time piece" of choice isn't a Rolex?

BTW, how much of Kelly's power would you estimate wasn't being transferred? 

Where did it go?


----------



## 11spd

Jackhammer said:


> A little early to get so worked up?
> 
> You didn't see the "stiffness fairytale" thread started by the physicist?
> 
> It went on forever and brought out all the engineers with insecurity complexes who'd be dropped by their fast riding buddies had they not had the perfect blend of stiffness and ride characteristics exemplified by the Sl3 Roubaix, the be all, end all, of the bicycle world.
> 
> I take it your "time piece" of choice isn't a Rolex?
> 
> BTW, how much of Kelly's power would you estimate wasn't being transferred?
> 
> Where did it go?


Hard to know how much of Kelly's power wasn't transferred. Suffice to say that bike designers...guys with PhD's in engineering have complete design freedom to replicate any level of stiffness if unconstrained by aerodynamics in particular. There isn't a single bike on the market as whippy as a Vitus. Not one. Whippy bikes are easy to design. Stiff bikes are easy to design also. Light Stiff bikes are harder to design. Modern carbon bikes...pick one...with their differential stiffness...not the boat anchors Sach's designs...are hard to design. Sach's retrotech bikes have monolithic stiffness because their is no asymmetry to their tube sections because his designs are primitive. There is a reason that designers go to the trouble of creating bikes that are softer vertically and laterally stiff. Btw, part of it is for handling and stable descending.

So you can live in your fantasy world and believe frame stiffness doesn't matter....but it does matters to ride quality, handling and power transfer and fortunately those that don't live under a rock know better.

And for the record as you aren't very articulate, my sense is you don't believe that stiffness matters in power transfer. For the average guy...say a max 500w amateur, I somewhat agree. But...the entire industry disagrees with you. Within the debate, there is sweeping speculation why energy stored isn't returned. To me, this partly misses the point. To me, lack of frame stiffness when sprinting is partly a control issue. At a cadence of 120 RPM at 1000w on a whippy frame like a Vitus the pedal stroke is far from round because the frame distorts in the power zone of each power stroke. This detracts from ability to sustain high RPM out of the saddle. So I believe a whippy frame detracts from ability to apply maximum power of a given rider partly because of 'control' of the pedal stroke. FWIW


----------



## Chader09

Roubaix... what Roubaix?

Oh.... that Roubaix.


----------



## 1Butcher

The one with the old school BB and a modern carbon frame that only flexes at the front end and no one want's because no one rides on cobbles?


----------



## Jackhammer

11spd said:


> Hard to know how much of Kelly's power wasn't transferred. Suffice to say that bike designers...guys with PhD's in engineering have complete design freedom to replicate any level of stiffness if unconstrained by aerodynamics in particular. There isn't a single bike on the market as whippy as a Vitus. Not one. Whippy bikes are easy to design. Stiff bikes are easy to design also. Light Stiff bikes are harder to design. Modern carbon bikes...pick one...with their differential stiffness...not the boat anchors Sach's designs...are hard to design. Sach's retrotech bikes have monolithic stiffness because their is no asymmetry to their tube sections because his designs are primitive. There is a reason that designers go to the trouble of creating bikes that are softer vertically and laterally stiff. Btw, part of it is for handling and stable descending.
> 
> So you can live in your fantasy world and believe frame stiffness doesn't matter....but it does matters to ride quality, handling and power transfer and fortunately those that don't live under a rock know better.
> 
> And for the record as you aren't very articulate, my sense is you don't believe that stiffness matters in power transfer. For the average guy...say a max 500w amateur, I somewhat agree. But...the entire industry disagrees with you. Within the debate, there is sweeping speculation why energy stored isn't returned. To me, this partly misses the point. To me, lack of frame stiffness when sprinting is partly a control issue. At a cadence of 120 RPM at 1000w on a whippy frame like a Vitus the pedal stroke is far from round because the frame distorts in the power zone of each power stroke. This detracts from ability to sustain high RPM out of the saddle. So I believe a whippy frame detracts from ability to apply maximum power of a given rider partly because of 'control' of the pedal stroke. FWIW



Your argument is the industry disagrees with me? 

The industry which has been promoting 25~50% or whatever number, increases in stiffness for the last how many years to sell bikes one has to have?

For all of your vaunted technological advances, the speed and comfort of bicycles hasn't advanced much beyond that which Sachs more "primitive" designs have attained. 

Also, the whole industry has moved towards the geometry and fit Sachs has been creating for more than 40 years. 

As for the new Roubaix, obviously it's nice bicycle, however I don't think anyone riding a Sachs with their local club is going to be at any kind of meaningful disadvantage with the admittedly "primitive" technology. Lol


----------



## 1Butcher

Jackhammer said:


> As for the new Roubaix, obviously it's nice bicycle, however I don't think anyone riding a Sachs with their local club is going to be at any kind of meaningful disadvantage with the admittedly "primitive" technology.


I'll agree with that. On my team we have a variety of experience. From World Champs to those that do not race. I know of one person that rides an old titanium bike that can ride the legs off of most anyone.

Usually it boils down to the engine. When the engines are the same, it's tactics. If the tactics are the same, it's the equipment.


----------



## 11spd

1Butcher said:


> I'll agree with that. On my team we have a variety of experience. From World Champs to those that do not race. I know of one person that rides an old titanium bike that can ride the legs off of most anyone.
> 
> Usually it boils down to the engine. When the engines are the same, it's tactics. If the tactics are the same, it's the equipment.


It isn't just the speed of a bike. Of course the engine trumps differences in frames.
All you have to do is ride different bikes....they can ride profoundly different. Some btw, prefer an uber stiff bike and feel every pebble in the road. Some prefer a BMW to a Porsche. Some prefer a Porsche to a BMW. Some prefer a Lincoln town car to a BMW. Point is, frames can vary greatly. For example you prefer a Tarmac to a Roubaix because of how it rides and handles. You could have the same 3 pts of contact on a Roubaix if you size down. I have two CAT 2 friends that ride Roubaixs. They are strong however prefer the ride and handing to a Tarmac. Many are the other way around. It isn't all about speed.


----------



## 11spd

Jackhammer said:


> Your argument is the industry disagrees with me?
> 
> The industry which has been promoting 25~50% or whatever number, increases in stiffness for the last how many years to sell bikes one has to have?
> 
> For all of your vaunted technological advances, the speed and comfort of bicycles hasn't advanced much beyond that which Sachs more "primitive" designs have attained.
> 
> Also, the whole industry has moved towards the geometry and fit Sachs has been creating for more than 40 years.
> 
> As for the new Roubaix, obviously it's nice bicycle, however I don't think anyone riding a Sachs with their local club is going to be at any kind of meaningful disadvantage with the admittedly "primitive" technology. Lol


A modern Roubaix is lighter, has more vertical compliance and is laterally stiffer than a Sachs bike. Why in the world would someone ride an inferior bike for the same or more money? Of course the majority don't. If Sachs made the better mousetrap, he would be a household name like Specialized instead of ignorant people believing in the artisan and exclusivity of an inferior bike based upon 30 year old technology.


----------



## krtassoc

***************************************
Post edited by DCGRIZ:

Debate is acceptable as long it is conducted under civilized terms. 

krtassoc if you cant abide by these rules you will not be allowed to post. Period. 

First offense is a warning.


----------



## Stumpjumper FSR

krtassoc said:


> ************************


Reminds me of "Roadworthy"


----------



## 11spd

Will be interesting to see if the new Roubaix will be raced in the classics and how it will do. No reason they couldn't set up the front fork to be almost rigid...with maybe a hint of give to ride close to a std. solid front fork.


----------



## dcgriz

If you want to keep this thread alive, play nice!


----------



## Jackhammer

11spd said:


> A modern Roubaix is lighter, has more vertical compliance and is laterally stiffer than a Sachs bike. Why in the world would someone ride an inferior bike for the same or more money? Of course the majority don't. If Sachs made the better mousetrap, he would be a household name like Specialized instead of ignorant people believing in the artisan and exclusivity of an inferior bike based upon 30 year old technology.


http://forums.roadbikereview.com/bikes-frames-forks/stiffness-fairytale-349964.html

I'm riding an S-Works SL2 btw and as I pointed out when I rode the new Roubaix one can certainly compromise the ride of any decent bike by riding overinflated tires. 

Tire technology is a much greater advance than frame material, especially regarding bang for the buck.


----------



## thumper8888

11spd said:


> A modern Roubaix is lighter, has more vertical compliance and is laterally stiffer than a Sachs bike. Why in the world would someone ride an inferior bike for the same or more money? Of course the majority don't. If Sachs made the better mousetrap, he would be a household name like Specialized instead of ignorant people believing in the artisan and exclusivity of an inferior bike based upon 30 year old technology.


That's a bit harsh. And this is coming from someone who is relentless about a modern, evidence-based approach to pretty much everything. No, Sachs' bikes aren't for me, but they are by no means inferior, at least by my definition.
They are essentially art, not just a bike you'll ride two years, and then feel is outmoded. They aren't for the likes of you, or me, but that doesn't mean they warrant the tone youre using here. They are absolutely wonderful bikes for the niche that he hits.
Now if you want to mock that endless cavalcade of bearded, 20-something grinders and brazers who endlessly fill the page over at bike rumor with some flash in the pan steel bike go ahead. They kind of fit what youre saying. But Sachs has done a lot for bike design, and makes a fine product, even if its not a flavor you or I like.


----------



## 11spd

Jackhammer said:


> http://forums.roadbikereview.com/bikes-frames-forks/stiffness-fairytale-349964.html
> 
> I'm riding an S-Works SL2 btw and as I pointed out when I rode the new Roubaix one can certainly compromise the ride of any decent bike by riding overinflated tires.
> 
> Tire technology is a much greater advance than frame material, especially regarding bang for the buck.


The overused tire excuse is irrelevant because good or bad, high volume or low volume, high pressure or low pressure tires can be used on any frameset. So it then comes down to the frameset. There is a reason why large companies spend hundreds of thousands of dollars on R&D and Sachs doesn't. A Sachs bike is a 30 year old Corvette and a new Tarmac, Roubaix or Venge or Madone, Emonda or Dogma or S5 is a new Corvette. They are light years apart in performance. If you can't tell the difference, then it doesn't matter.


----------



## Jackhammer

11spd said:


> The overused tire excuse is irrelevant because good or bad, high volume or low volume, high pressure or low pressure tires can be used on any frameset. So it then comes down to the frameset. There is a reason why large companies spend hundreds of thousands of dollars on R&D and Sachs doesn't. A Sachs bike is a 30 year old Corvette and a new Tarmac, Roubaix or Venge or Madone, Emonda or Dogma or S5 is a new Corvette. They are light years apart in performance. If you can't tell the difference, then it doesn't matter.


Thoughts on science & perception - Slowtwitch.com


----------



## 11spd

Jackhammer said:


> Thoughts on science & perception - Slowtwitch.com


Must be all marketing then. Bike doesn't matter afterall. I will be looking for Sach's bikes in the TdF. Maybe all with 5 speed rear cassettes, Brooks saddles, friction shifters and Al wheelsets. No doubt they will be competitive.

Just think, you could be famous. Think of the R&D dollars you could of saved Specialized for advising them to not waste their time and develop a new front shock for their new Roubaix. Instead, simply have them put a sticker on the top tube to lower psi by 4 psi. Shocks don't matter as frame stiffness doesn't matter. Heck, shocks don't matter on motorcycles either. Porsche should spring their cars like a towncar. Heck a Harley can make around a superbike course as fast as a Ducati.
Its a mind game. Sachs doesn't know how to measure frame stiffness per his self admission, therefore why should it matter? Physics don't matter. Think about the money Specialized could have saved by not dramatically changing the tube sections on all their bikes over the years. Twenty years ago, a Specialized bike had the same tube shape as a Sachs. Anybody who has ridden the early Roubaix and the current one, they are exactly the same because a frame doesn't even matter. Silliness.


----------



## Jackhammer

11spd said:


> Must be all marketing then. Bike doesn't matter afterall. I will be looking for Sach's bikes in the TdF. Maybe all with 5 speed rear cassettes, Brooks saddles, friction shifters and Al wheelsets. No doubt they will be competitive.
> 
> Just think, you could be famous. Think of the R&D dollars you could of saved Specialized for developing a shock on their new Roubaix. It wasn't needed at all. Frame stiffness and shocks don't matter. Heck, shocks don't matter on motorcycles either. Heck a Harley can make around a superbike course as fast as a Ducati.
> Its a mind game. Physics don't matter.


Who said it doesn't matter AT ALL for Professional Cyclists?

Nice straw man!

Also odd that you mentioned Ducati.


----------



## 11spd

Jackhammer said:


> Who said it doesn't matter AT ALL for Professional Cyclists?
> 
> Nice straw man!
> 
> Also odd that you mentioned Ducati.


Maybe should communicate just in links since you don't say much. 
Here's a nice one. Durianrider rocks:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KfzEhqx0sDY


----------



## Jackhammer

11spd said:


> Maybe would should start communicating just in links. I notice you don't say much...lol.
> Here's a nice one. Durianrider rocks:
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KfzEhqx0sDY


The Reid??? I was going to bring that up. 

He might be on the payroll??????


----------



## 11spd

Jackhammer said:


> The Reid??? I was going to bring that up.
> 
> He might be in the payroll???


Nope. Reid is the new Sachs for 1/4 of the price!


----------



## krtassoc

11spd said:


> Both Richard Sachs and Cervelo started making bicycles in their garage. Its no surprise that Cervelo's bikes are raced in the TdF and Sach's frames never were.
> Almost sad all the sheep that don't know any better that buy one of his frame's. 80's tech, i.e. no tech. Richard Sachs is a decent artisan and nothing more. The boutique bike industry is littered with guys like him that people waste their money on. People would be better off buying a 35 lb stove pipe Schwinn at a garage sale and hanging low level Campy and a cheap modern wheelset on.
> 
> I like this:
> _*Where do you get customers now?*_
> I think there are people that have different sensibilities. Maybe their sensibilities are fine-tuned, or maybe they’re attaching something to my bikes that really shouldn’t be attached, but I get the person who wants something that doesn’t constitute a compromise. People want a bike from me because I have “X” amount of years of experience and stay pretty true to the company line, whatever that is, by being a one-man shop.
> I feel like I live outside the bike business and watch it from the sidelines. The people who get my bikes are probably people that would not normally go to a bike store to get their really fine bike. They might get their first bike or their second or third bike, but they know ultimately that they want the experience of having me measure them; me deciding what is best and me building it in a fashion that would guarantee that it rides well and looks good.
> 
> 
> He should have written:
> The world is full of dumb people. Some dumb people associate exclusivity for being better when in reality you are sometimes paying more for less. There is no greater example of that than a Rivendell bike. The only thing that Grant Peterson offers of value is his fit philosophy and even that the average guy doesn't need clipless pedals which I also agree with. His bikes are an abomination for what you get for the dollar.


For all the people who have been around long enough (this is my 28th in the sport) and who by experience can appreciate a road bike (e.g., Richard Sachs) that is finely crafted and designed to handle properly rather than an over-hyped, poorly engineered Asian-made, plastic 'crit' bike: Anachronistic | RKP


----------



## 11spd

krtassoc said:


> For all the people who have been around long enough (this is my 28th in the sport) and who by experience can appreciate a road bike (e.g., Richard Sachs) that is finely crafted and designed to handle properly rather than an over-hyped, poorly engineered Asian-made, plastic 'crit' bike: Anachronistic | RKP


Gotta laugh when all the guys come out of the woodwork to shill their boutique bike of choice. Are you talking about the overhyped plastic bikes that have won the Paris Roubaix, TdF and most recent World Championship on a Tarmac ridden by the great Peter Sagan? I believe they deserve their hype. Let poor Richard learn by Specialized business model. Have Sachs front his bikes in the TdF and compete with the big boys.


----------



## Jackhammer

11spd said:


> Gotta laugh when all the guys come out of the woodwork to shill their boutique bike of choice. Are you talking about the overhyped plastic bikes that have won the Paris Roubaix, TdF and most recent World Championship on a Tarmac ridden by the great Peter Sagan? I believe they deserve their hype. Let poor Richard learn by Specialized business model. Have Sachs front his bikes in the TdF and compete with the big boys.


This frenetic mix of retro gear and modern competitive brawn breeds moments that prove why steel was beloved in the first place. “Things get so much lighter, brakes work so much better now”, says Andy Hampsten, who won the 1988 Giro d’Italia and the Alpe d’Huez stage of the 1992 Tour de France. But when he rode a 1950s-era steel bike during his first Eroica, he couldn’t deny the power of the precursor. “As far as being on a bike and having it just go instinctively where I want to go — through curves — it couldn’t have been a more comfortable bike.”

Report: The Steel Frame Bike Is Still Great - Gear Patrol


----------



## 11spd

Jackhammer said:


> This frenetic mix of retro gear and modern competitive brawn breeds moments that prove why steel was beloved in the first place. “Things get so much lighter, brakes work so much better now”, says Andy Hampsten, who won the 1988 Giro d’Italia and the Alpe d’Huez stage of the 1992 Tour de France. But when he rode a 1950s-era steel bike during his first Eroica, he couldn’t deny the power of the precursor. “As far as being on a bike and having it just go instinctively where I want to go — through curves — it couldn’t have been a more comfortable bike.”
> 
> Report: The Steel Frame Bike Is Still Great - Gear Patrol


You picked the right spokesman. Chris Wright...or is that Wrong? Goofy old sentimental guy rife with stereotypes in replacement of rational thought. Every walk has old guys pining for the good ol' days including audioheads...below. Where' my 8 track? And FWIW, pretty sure, I have owned more steel bikes than anybody here as I am older. Anybody who says a steel bike has 'any' of the performance...pick a metric of a modern bike...even aluminum like the Allez, has their head in the sand. Of course they do or all the big companies would still be making at least one steel bike for bearded weirdos.
I wonder if Mr. Wright is a member of the flat earth society and believes the moon landing was staged?...lol

More of his genius:
Why We Love Vintage Gear - Gear Patrol


----------



## Jackhammer

11spd said:


> You picked the right spokesman. Chris Wright...or is that Wrong? Goofy old sentimental guy rife with stereotypes in replacement of rational thought. Every walk has old guys pining for the good ol' days including audioheads...below. Where' my 8 track? And FWIW, pretty sure, I have owned more steel bikes than anybody here as I am older. Anybody who says a steel bike has 'any' of the performance...pick a metric of a modern bike...even aluminum like the Allez, has their head in the sand. Of course they do or all the big companies would still be making at least one steel bike for bearded weirdos.
> I wonder if Mr. Wright is a member of the flat earth society and believes the moon landing was staged?...lol
> 
> More of his genius:
> Why We Love Vintage Gear - Gear Patrol



Andy Hampsten?


----------



## jacksdad

if boutique shops worked in CF and big corp worked in steel you can bet the bearded tools of the world would harping about how good ol CF is the best and steel is the material of the lazy massive corp that doesn't want to put any soul into their bikes.


----------



## Jackhammer

jacksdad said:


> if boutique shops worked in CF and big corp worked in steel you can bet the bearded tools of the world would harping about how good ol CF is the best and steel is the material of the lazy massive corp that doesn't want to put any soul into their bikes.


Crumpton?


----------



## 11spd

Jackhammer said:


> Andy Hampsten?


Malcolm Bricklin?


----------



## Jackhammer

11spd said:


> You picked the right spokesman. Chris Wright...or is that Wrong? Goofy old sentimental guy rife with stereotypes in replacement of rational thought. Every walk has old guys pining for the good ol' days including audioheads...below. Where' my 8 track? And FWIW, pretty sure, I have owned more steel bikes than anybody here as I am older. Anybody who says a steel bike has 'any' of the performance...pick a metric of a modern bike...even aluminum like the Allez, has their head in the sand. Of course they do or all the big companies would still be making at least one steel bike for bearded weirdos.
> I wonder if Mr. Wright is a member of the flat earth society and believes the moon landing was staged?...lol
> 
> More of his genius:
> Why We Love Vintage Gear - Gear Patrol


Have you owned more bikes of any material than Greg LeMond? 

He's ridden and built more bikes of every material and combinations thereof than almost anyone here, I would guess. I don't think he's built a Magnesium bike. 

The last model he sold was steel. He travels with the steel bike. 

Does LeMond have a beard? Is he weird? 

I think the guy is a genius on a couple of levels.


----------



## 1Butcher

Chader09 said:


> I don't like to be that guy, but maybe a separate BB thread (sry 4 da pun) is in order?


OK 11sp, you do not like steel bikes, I get it. There are others that do, I get that too. If 11sp had it his way, the SL3 Roubaix is the only bike that would be made. Fortunately there are demands from the market that want something different. Be that steel, aluminum, carbon, or bamboo. 

I really think the argument that it's not on the Tour or if the Pros do not ride them, it's not worth being on the road is pretty lame. Most bikes built are not for the tour, they're built because there is a demand for them. 

There is a demand for a steel bike and that is why there are builders for that market. Who gives a crap why someone wants a steel frame. You do not have to ride it, so why bad mouth someone that makes or wants one.

Anyone else get a chance to ride the new Roubaix?


----------



## 11spd

Jackhammer said:


> Have you owned more bikes of any material than Greg LeMond?
> 
> He's ridden and built more bikes of every material and combinations thereof than almost anyone here, I would guess. I don't think he's built a Magnesium bike.
> 
> The last model he sold was steel. He travels with the steel bike.
> 
> Does LeMond have a beard? Is he weird?
> 
> I think the guy is a genius on a couple of levels.


Of course you think Lemond is a genius. Lemond was a great bike rider. He could push hard on the pedals for long periods and steer pretty good. He was as good a bike racer as Mark Spitz was a swimmer. Neither have been accused of being overly bright. Had he competed in the TdF today, he would be on carbon. Lemond's brand is steel. That is what he raced on. When Lemond fractured from Trek, he lost their R&D. All the boutique steel guys that extoll 'custom' and nostalgia...aaahhh, the good 'ol days...and exclusivity...this is for a reason. Its like a guy with a high school education trying to get a job in the engineering department of a Fortune 500 company. They are too clueless to add value. So they bring what they have which is mired in 30 year old yestertech...kind of like midevil times  and market it as special and old guys stuck in the stone age who love old movies think it is better than modern bike tech when the opposite is true.

A massive waste of time to even explain this to a guy...you...who is stuck in a time warp. It denigrates discussion about the new Roubaix. The tech of the new Roubaix is and should be debated. A front shock isn't for everybody. Also, most steel bikes sold today are sold with a carbon fork for a reason and not a steel fork. To compare any Roubaix...the most popular endurance bike created to date to what you espouse in your allegiance to 30 year old technology is as irrelevant as the bikes you like.


----------



## Jackhammer

11spd said:


> Of course you think Lemond is a genius. Lemond was a great bike rider. He could push hard on the pedals for long periods and steer pretty good. He was as good a bike racer as Mark Spitz was a swimmer. Neither have been accused of being overly bright. Had he competed in the TdF today, he would be on carbon. Lemond's brand is steel. That is what he raced on. When Lemond fractured from Trek, he lost their R&D. All the boutique steel guys that extoll 'custom' and nostalgia...aaahhh, the good 'ol days...and exclusivity...this is for a reason. Its like a guy with a high school education trying to get a job in the engineering department of a Fortune 500 company. They are too clueless to add value. So they bring what they have which is mired in 30 year old yestertech...kind of like midevil times  and market it as special and old guys stuck in the stone age who love old movies think it is better than modern bike tech when the opposite is true.
> 
> A massive waste of time to even explain this to a guy...you...who is stuck in a time warp. It denigrates discussion about the new Roubaix. The tech of the new Roubaix is and should be debated. A front shock isn't for everybody. Also, most steel bikes sold today are sold with a carbon fork for a reason and not a steel fork. To compare any Roubaix...the most popular endurance bike created to date to what you espouse in your allegiance to 30 year old technology is as irrelevant as the bikes you like.


I brought up Sachs because of the "stiffness fairytale" which is your God, North Star and obsession. 

I own 3 bikes. Two Looks and a Specialized. All carbon. 

Please tell me about Specialized success with the Venge Vias?

You think that would happen with a well made bamboo bike?

LeMond is a very, very, bright guy and his athletic genius surrounding all things bicycle related is only questioned by fools. 

You're conflating his psychological issues, as manifested in his oral presentations, as detracting from his intellectual ability. 

Mike Sinyard and Burke combined can't hoist LeMond's jockstrap. 

Safety is VERY important for any bicycle. 

The large manufacturers have had more than their share of failures in that department. 

Not very confidence inspiring when you're going into Morzine at 120 kph in the Tour.

BTW, did Thomas Edison even have a HS education?


----------



## 11spd

Jackhammer said:


> I brought up Sachs because of the "stiffness fairytale" which is your God, North Star and obsession.
> 
> I own 3 bikes. Two Looks and a Specialized. All carbon.
> 
> Please tell me about Specialized success with the Venge Vias?
> 
> You think that would happen with a well made bamboo bike?
> 
> LeMond is a very, very, bright guy and his athletic genius surrounding all things bicycle related is only questioned by fools.
> 
> You're conflating his psychological issues, as manifested in his oral presentations, as detracting from his intellectual ability.
> 
> Mike Sinyard and Burke combined can't hoist LeMond's jockstrap.
> 
> Safety is VERY important for any bicycle.
> 
> The large manufacturers have had more than their share of failures in that department.
> 
> Not very confidence inspiring when you're going into Morzine at 120 kph in the Tour.
> 
> BTW, did Thomas Edison even have a HS education?


No but many believe Tom Edison would have had the good sense to ride carbon and btw, Mike Sinyard and Burke who have created the most successful bike companies on the planet...and your genius Lemond only floundered in the bike biss...neither man would have touched Lemond's jockstrap. Besides, don't you keep it under glass in your trophy case?

What you write is great comedy and thanks for the satire. Btw, I am a big fan of Edison and believe he tried a bamboo light bulb filament...lol.
I know Durianrider has owned a bamboo bike but vastly prefers his new TCR.


----------



## Chader09

1Butcher said:


> Anyone else get a chance to ride the new Roubaix?


I may take a quick spin on one this weekend.


----------



## 11spd

1Butcher said:


> OK 11sp, you do not like steel bikes, I get it. There are others that do, I get that too. If 11sp had it his way, the SL3 Roubaix is the only bike that would be made. Fortunately there are demands from the market that want something different. Be that steel, aluminum, carbon, or bamboo.
> 
> I really think the argument that it's not on the Tour or if the Pros do not ride them, it's not worth being on the road is pretty lame. Most bikes built are not for the tour, they're built because there is a demand for them.
> 
> There is a demand for a steel bike and that is why there are builders for that market. Who gives a crap why someone wants a steel frame. You do not have to ride it, so why bad mouth someone that makes or wants one.
> 
> Anyone else get a chance to ride the new Roubaix?


Steel bikes have zero relevance to discussion about the new Roubaix...or the old Roubaix. Topic of discussion last time I looked was the 2017 Roubaix and not something as dumb as old tech like steel as much as some who live in the past romanticize it. And Butcher you have to get out more to know the Roubaix is raced professionally among the best riders in the world over the most grueling roads and steel bikes are not because they don't have the same performance envelope. Most top manufacturers haven't made a steel bike for a few years now. We could also have a discussion about leather saddles and 5 speed friction shifters as well...and would be as equally silly. Not many steel handlebars around either....or stems...or cranks, or wheels. When I was a kid I owned a bike with steel wheels and crank.
So technology moves on but some people don't and that is their problem. As to my choice of bike, I just happen to ride a Roubaix. My last bike was a Look 585 which was a good bike as well. In fact, not a huge difference in performance. The Roubaix has a bit friendlier ride, a stiffer BB and is more laterally stiff out of the saddle and it tracks and descends better. I just happen to ride a Roubaix and would be happy on any top carbon bike honestly. I actually liked the VIAS I tested a couple of months back...but would probably prefer a new Tarmac with good carbon wheels. I kind of jones for a new Dogma F8 since a riding girlfriend of mine just got one. It is very sweet and she rides strong on it. She just returned from Iceland riding 70 miles a day there. On this morning's group ride, my riding buddy just picked up a new Supersix Evo. He came off a Synapse and I asked him if he felt much different on it and he said no. The bikes don't feel that much different. He rides all over the US FWIW and is a strong rider. To me, the bike doesn't matter that much but having owned 30 steel bikes and a bunch of aluminum and carbon, there is no comparison. To me, steel is dumb, unless you find one cheap and ride it as a beater...like a college kid not worried about getting it stolen.
YMMV and it always does.


----------



## Jackhammer

11spd said:


> Steel bikes have zero relevance to discussion about the new Roubaix...or the old Roubaix. Topic of discussion last time I looked was the 2017 Roubaix and not something as dumb as old tech like steel as much as some who live in the past romanticize it. And Butcher you have to get out more to know the Roubaix is raced professionally among the best riders in the world over the most grueling roads and steel bikes are not because they don't have the same performance envelope. Most top manufacturers haven't made a steel bike for a few years now. We could also have a discussion about leather saddles and 5 speed friction shifters as well...and would be as equally silly. Not many steel handlebars around either....or stems...or cranks, or wheels. When I was a kid I owned a bike with steel wheels and crank.
> So technology moves on but some people don't and that is their problem. As to my choice of bike, I just happen to ride a Roubaix. My last bike was a Look 585 which was a good bike as well. In fact, not a huge difference in performance. The Roubaix has a bit friendlier ride, a stiffer BB and is more laterally stiff out of the saddle and it tracks and descends better. I just happen to ride a Roubaix and would be happy on any top carbon bike honestly. I actually liked the VIAS I tested a couple of months back...but would probably prefer a new Tarmac with good carbon wheels. I kind of jones for a new Dogma F8 since a riding girlfriend of mine just got one. It is very sweet and she rides strong on it. She just returned from Iceland riding 70 miles a day there. On this morning's group ride, my riding buddy just picked up a new Supersix Evo. He came off a Synapse and I asked him if he felt much different on it and he said no. The bikes don't feel that much different. He rides all over the US FWIW and is a strong rider. To me, the bike doesn't matter that much but having owned 30 steel bikes and a bunch of aluminum and carbon, there is no comparison. To me, steel is dumb, unless you find one cheap and ride it as a beater...like a college kid not worried about getting it stolen.
> YMMV and it always does.


The conversation wasn't about steel. It was about stiffness. 

I posted a quote from Richard Sachs about stiffness after you went on and on about the differences in stiffness between 3 Roubaix iterations, and you became unglued and attacked anyone who would so much as look at a steel bike after the advent of SL3 perfection. 

Apparently you ride with fast people and want your 23's pumped up to da max or something to that effect?


----------



## 11spd

Jackhammer said:


> The conversation wasn't about steel. It was about stiffness.
> 
> I posted a quote from Richard Sachs about stiffness after you went on and on about the differences in stiffness between 3 Roubaix iterations, and you became unglued and attacked anyone who would so much as look at a steel bike after the advent of SL3 perfection.
> 
> Apparently you ride with fast people and want your 23's pumped up to da max or something to that effect?


Attacks? Unglued? Project much? What possible relevance does an antique design like Sachs have to a Roubaix? You are making some obtuse leap of connection. And Sachs is a bonefide idiot about stiffness..he admits it...he fails to see the relevance like a self fulfilling prophecy to his ignorance...like a guy who lives in the 1800's and doesn't believe in space flight...and his bikes reflect that compared to modern carbon bikes which improve every year because they are designed by a team of scientists with high power computers than can kinematically model them in virtual space unlike a retrogrouch who hasn't moved out of the stone age.


----------



## c-wal

This thread sucks. I just wanted to hear about the new Roubaix. Most of the thread updates seem to consist of some armchair engineer critiquing other manufactures designs, argueing with anyone with a differing opinion.
Bikes are fun people, reqardless of what they are made of, so ride what you like.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-N920A using Tapatalk


----------



## Jackhammer

11spd said:


> Attacks? Unglued? Project much? What possible relevance does an antique design like Sachs have to a Roubaix? You are making some obtuse leap of connection. And Sachs is a bonefide idiot about stiffness..he admits it...he fails to see the relevance like a self fulfilling prophecy to his ignorance...like a guy who lives in the 1800's and doesn't believe in space flight...and his bikes reflect that compared to modern carbon bikes which improve every year because they are designed by a team of scientists with high power computers than can kinematically model them in virtual space unlike a retrogrouch who hasn't moved out of the stone age.


"scientists with high power computers.......??????"


----------



## 11spd

Jackhammer said:


> "scientists with high power computers.......??????"


Since you don't seem to know much about bikes, I will give you a shot on why that happened. Go ahead, make my day.


----------



## 11spd

c-wal said:


> This thread sucks. I just wanted to hear about the new Roubaix. Most of the thread updates seem to consist of some armchair engineer critiquing other manufactures designs, argueing with anyone with a differing opinion.
> Bikes are fun people, reqardless of what they are made of, so ride what you like.
> 
> Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-N920A using Tapatalk


Have you ridden the bike? I have and provided my views here. I agree that a couple of bearded scrap steel fanatics hijacked the thread. Do you own a Roubaix? Where is your input?
Let me spell it out for you. Its ok to engage in debate, if you have something to say. But you don't, and so you get what you get. There are tons of reviews on line now for the new Roubaix.


----------



## Jackhammer

11spd said:


> Since you don't seem to know much about bikes, I will give you a shot on why that happened. Go ahead, make my day.


Bad programming?


----------



## 1Butcher

If it was a steel frame, it would not have happened.

I do not know how, but I do know how to fix https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-xmvwEDalTk


----------



## tyrich88

1Butcher said:


> If it was a steel frame, it would not have happened.
> 
> I do not know how, but I do know how to fix https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-xmvwEDalTk


hahahaha


----------



## 11spd

Jackhammer said:


> Bad programming?


Frame envy. Fat guy who owned a Sachs borrowed it and ran it into a tree.


----------



## 11spd

tyrich88 said:


> hahahaha


yeah good one! hardi har har....hidi hoe...one time.


----------



## Jackhammer

11spd said:


> Since you don't seem to know much about bikes, I will give you a shot on why that happened. Go ahead, make my day.


So why is the Venge Vias falling apart?


----------



## 11spd

Jackhammer said:


> So why is the Venge Vias falling apart?


Told you. Fat, uninformed boutique bike owners generally riding steel or Ti take a new Venge out and recognize how primitive their current bike is and they sabotage the carbon bike, post a picture on the web to denigrate the manufacturer that has created such a masterpiece. Frame envy.


----------



## Jackhammer

11spd said:


> Of course you think Lemond is a genius. Lemond was a great bike rider. He could push hard on the pedals for long periods and steer pretty good. He was as good a bike racer as Mark Spitz was a swimmer. Neither have been accused of being overly bright. Had he competed in the TdF today, he would be on carbon. Lemond's brand is steel. That is what he raced on. When Lemond fractured from Trek, he lost their R&D. All the boutique steel guys that extoll 'custom' and nostalgia...aaahhh, the good 'ol days...and exclusivity...this is for a reason. Its like a guy with a high school education trying to get a job in the engineering department of a Fortune 500 company. They are too clueless to add value. So they bring what they have which is mired in 30 year old yestertech...kind of like midevil times  and market it as special and old guys stuck in the stone age who love old movies think it is better than modern bike tech when the opposite is true.
> 
> A massive waste of time to even explain this to a guy...you...who is stuck in a time warp. It denigrates discussion about the new Roubaix. The tech of the new Roubaix is and should be debated. A front shock isn't for everybody. Also, most steel bikes sold today are sold with a carbon fork for a reason and not a steel fork. To compare any Roubaix...the most popular endurance bike created to date to what you espouse in your allegiance to 30 year old technology is as irrelevant as the bikes you like.


LeMond Composites marks opening in Oak Ridge


----------



## 11spd

Jackhammer said:


> LeMond Composites marks opening in Oak Ridge


Connie Jackson and LeMond have been seen together eating copious amounts of cheeseburgers and ice cream. As a snack they eat a lot of Trail mix which they now call Grail Mix...same stuff.

Extremely relevant this link would be posted in this thread discussing the new Roubaix...lol. Anybody have links of other fat people shilling in generic terms other bike parts?


----------



## Jackhammer

11spd said:


> Connie Jackson and LeMond have been seen together eating copious amounts of cheeseburgers and ice cream. As a snack they eat a lot of Trail mix which they now call Grail Mix...same stuff.
> 
> Extremely relevant this link would be posted in this thread discussing the new Roubaix...lol. Anybody have links of other fat people shilling in generic terms other bike parts?


Maybe Specialized will make their new Roubaix in Tennessee rather than China?


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## 11spd

Jackhammer said:


> Maybe Specialized will make their new Roubaix in Tennessee rather than China?


Why lower the quality level and increase the cost to the consumer?


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## Jackhammer

11spd said:


> Why lower the quality level and increase the cost to the consumer?


How much is this "quality" costing their customers?


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## 11spd

Jackhammer said:


> How much is this "quality" costing their customers?
> 
> View attachment 316536


No..you are trying to spin the narrative. That failure was due to a fat guy who was a Sach's owner who ran that bike into a tree. Pure spiteful envy. In fact, there is unfounded speculation that he took a blow torch to it before running into a tree to weaken this bond.


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## cmschmie

What the hell happened to this thread?


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## 11spd

cmschmie said:


> What the hell happened to this thread?


Pretty obvious. It was hijacked by a troll who believes a boutique frame builder has any relevance to current tech aka new Roubaix...which it doesn't. 
If you have any questions about the new Roubaix which I have ridden say compared to the previous gen Roubaix which I own, ask away.


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## Jackhammer

11spd said:


> Pretty obvious. It was hijacked by a troll who believes a boutique frame builder has any relevance to current tech aka new Roubaix...which it doesn't.
> If you have any questions about the new Roubaix which I have ridden say compared to the previous gen Roubaix which I own, ask away.


Trolling? I was just responding to your silliness about stiffness. YOU were the one who tried to pin this love of steel bikes on me. 









But while we're at it with the Venge Vias and your comment about the rear triangle of the SL4, people might want to direct their attention to the rear triangle of the new Roubaix. 

The previous generations had a smooth transition from the seat stays to the top tube. 

This new bike looks like it's glued together like the Vias. 


You you really want the seat tube flexing backwards here?


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## 1Butcher

cmschmie said:


> What the hell happened to this thread?


On Nov 2011, there was a new member that joined the community and his name was Roadworthy. He was a very knowledgeable member that had almost 1500 posts. In that time, he was suspended several times and in August 2014 he was eventually banned for his poor choice of words and attacking others opinions.

For some reason, Roadworthy was allowed to join the community again under a new name. He has stirred the pot again and causing another good thread to be soon locked.

To have an official answer to your question, PM Coolhand. Maybe he will elaborate.


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## 11spd

Jackhammer said:


> Trolling? I was just responding to your silliness about stiffness. YOU were the one who tried to pin this love of steel bikes on me.
> 
> View attachment 316540
> 
> 
> But while we're at it with the Venge Vias and your comment about the rear triangle of the SL4, people might want to direct their attention to the rear triangle of the new Roubaix.
> 
> The previous generations had a smooth transition from the seat stays to the top tube.
> 
> This new bike looks like it's glued together like the Vias.
> 
> 
> You you really want the seat tube flexing backwards here?


Can't make this stuff up. You casting aspersions about design. A guy who believes 30 year old tech has any relevance to the new Roubaix.


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## Stumpjumper FSR

1Butcher said:


> On Nov 2011, there was a new member that joined the community and his name was Roadworthy. He was a very knowledgeable member that had almost 1500 posts. In that time, he was suspended several times and in August 2014 he was eventually banned for his poor choice of words and attaching others opinions.
> 
> For some reason, Roadworthy was allowed to join the community again under a new name. He has stirred the pot again and causing another good thread to be soon locked.
> 
> To have an official answer to your question, PM Coolhand. Maybe he can elaborate.


I posted last week that I thought this sounded like Roadworthy, you forgot to add that although he was very knowledgeable he was also never wrong...remind you of anyone?


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## 1Butcher

You may not agree, but it does add to the entertainment value and that may increase ad sales. 

If that is true, Welcome 11sp, glad to see you back.


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## Jackhammer

11spd said:


> Can't make this stuff up. You casting aspersions about design. A guy who believes 30 year old tech has any relevance to the new Roubaix.


You ARE making stuff up. 

Legitimate racing and enthusiast bicycles are made of many materials. 

There are some (small) differences in performance but many differences also come down to personal feel and preferences. 

I've quoted a few experts like Sachs and Hampsten and also noted that Sean Kelly successfully rode a VERY flexible bike on the cobbles and safely descended at very high speeds in the GT's. 

Obviously materials have advanced, but their applications in bicycles don't radically change what it means to ride a bicycle for the vast majority of riders. 

Things like clipless pedals and index shifting have had a much larger effect. Is that my opinion? No, that's what Merckx says. 

Regarding my opinion about design, take a look at the picture. One doesn't have to be an expert to have the opinion that might not be an optimal design. 

It even goes against the widespread public knowledge that the way the rear triangle is formed on the Venge Vias (and apparently the new Roubaix) doesn't maximize the inherent properties of carbon fiber. 

Specialized solution appears to be rear dropouts with lawyer tabs?

I didn't look closely on my test ride but do the rear dropouts of the new Roubaix employ lawyer tabs?


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## cmschmie

cmschmie said:


> What the hell happened to this thread?


I figured it out. "Hell" happened starting around post #270.


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## Chader09

And annoyingly, continues now.

Maybe those interested can start a separate thread instead of the constant OT here?

(If you are counting, this is the 3rd time I've made this request in this thread.)


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## jbinbi

Agree about this thread starting off great and then going to crap

I am an old guy who rides about 100 120 mi a week, usually 30 to 50 each ride. Currently ride a specialized with the zertz. Best ride I have had. Road ride only, but new England has crappy roads.

Have bad neck, I need to ride as upright as possible, I have put a short stem on my bike, highest angle up, etc.

So very interested in a bike that might be more comfortable on my trapezius muscle.

So is this home going to help, and btw, nobody mentioned prices that I saw.

Sent from my KFTBWI using Tapatalk


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## Rashadabd

jbinbi said:


> Agree about this thread starting off great and then going to crap
> 
> I am an old guy who rides about 100 120 mi a week, usually 30 to 50 each ride. Currently ride a specialized with the zertz. Best ride I have had. Road ride only, but new England has crappy roads.
> 
> Have bad neck, I need to ride as upright as possible, I have put a short stem on my bike, highest angle up, etc.
> 
> So very interested in a bike that might be more comfortable on my trapezius muscle.
> 
> So is this home going to help, and btw, nobody mentioned prices that I saw.
> 
> Sent from my KFTBWI using Tapatalk


I basically left the thread a while ago due to the craziness, but bikes with the new frame start at about $2600 USD. All prices are on the Specialized website.


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## jacksdad

I wonder how long they'll keep the old design available in the less expensive models.


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## 11spd

jacksdad said:


> I wonder how long they'll keep the old design available in the less expensive models.


I believe it maybe for only 3 more days. They are selling like hotcakes because for those that need the spongy front end bike, owners are saving money and buying a pogo stick instead. Beside, pogo sticks are easier to store.
I am honesty holding out for the next generation of Roubaix that can fly and has a supplemental motor. Technically it won't soar to great heights but rather it will hover...like a drone and also be propelled with an adjustable amount of pedal assist. It will also have active and even regenerative braking to prevent pile ups in group rides. This will take some level of artificial intelligence development....whereby essentially, riders will be riding a flying robot. Of course it will be future generations of Roubaix that will be able to talk to its rider about upcoming weather and best travel route, lowest traffic conditions etc. This will all come about around the same time driverless cars avail themselves and will take another level of development. There are so many possibilities including for ergonomics. For example most know about how ergonomics affect not only aerodynamics but comfort, fatigue and even power generation. This is where the Roubaix has been watershed ever since it was released. But with hover capability and supplemental battery power, aerodynamics will be less of a factor and of course a bike that will morph 3 pt. contact on the fly based upon sensing pain level for example will be very popular.
So that is what I believe will be the future and will of course relegate even the new front shock Roubaix to the scrap heap where Sach bikes have resided for years.


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## 1Butcher

I suspect the frame will be around a couple years. I have no proof of that, but they can get extra life on the molds and provide a bike for that market.


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## mclyons89

Sold my CAAD12 105 and upgraded to the 2017 Roubaix Elite. Picked it up yesterday after a two week wait. Wanted a bike more comfortable for longer rides. This bike is night and day more comfortable than the CAAD12. Only had time for 10 mile rides the past two days. 

The roubaix feels just as responsive as the CAAD, so far I am very happy with doubling my initial budget for the upgrade. You do not feel the future shock moving while pedaling in the saddle, and can slightly feel it while out of the saddle. Get used to the feeling quickly though. 

I have some questions regarding the finish on the frame. With the satin paint, is seeing "imperfections" normal? The finish is completely smooth, but you can see the carbon layers underneath. It's hard to take pictures of inside with my iPhone. Is this anything to worry about?


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## 1Butcher

I have a SW Tarmac SL3 and with matte finish, yes the carbon does show up just like yours.

Congratulations on the new bike. I suspect that we'll hear more praises with the bike as more people ride them. I would think it would be a learning curve to get used to the feel. I also expect you to ride other bikes and think they were very harsh once you get several miles on it.


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## mclyons89

I am glad to hear that it is normal. This is my first carbon bike so have nothing to compare it to. Really like the look of the bike overall! Am not a fan of bold branding on any product, so the grayed out specialized text is sharp looking in my opinion. 

The trails i ride have several bridges made out of wooden planks. On the CAAD12 it was very rough, always had to get out of the saddle to dampen the vibrations. On the new roubaix i don't even have to get out of the saddle. 

Was expecting it to feel "slower" than the cannonade but so far it does not. Am doing a 45 mile group ride this Saturday, which will be my longest ride since getting into cycling earlier this summer. Set two strava PRs on my ride today.


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## 11spd

As Butcher said, the finish is perfectly normal. That translucency is to reduce weight...min paint thickness. You will learn to enjoy the aesthetic or at least I have on my previous gen Roubaix.

Honestly, your review has great merit because you are coming off a venerable race bike with CAAD12. I would think many that would prefer the road feel of the CAAD12 may believe the new Roubaix feels almost too soft or disconnected but you report otherwise and backed with two Strava PRs.

Congrats on the new bike and thanks for sharing your perspective.

PS: what spring stiffness are you running in the front and how rough are the roads you ride on in general? Have you taken the bike down a dirt trail or single track?


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## goodboyr

Awesome thread. Thanks for the entertainment everyone. 
I saw a Roubaix and test rode it the other day. Had di2. Although not for me, it was pretty cool. I think it is the first time that spesh had created a new design that isn't the typical spesh "new tech for the sake of marketing".

Sent from my SM-G900W8 using Tapatalk


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## 11spd

goodboyr said:


> Awesome thread. Thanks for the entertainment everyone.
> I saw a Roubaix and test rode it the other day. Had di2. Although not for me, it was pretty cool. I think it is the first time that spesh had created a new design that isn't the typical spesh "new tech for the sake of marketing".
> 
> Sent from my SM-G900W8 using Tapatalk


Does that mean you like the new Roubaix?
Can you list what bikes or design features Spesh has created purely for marketing without an actual benefit?
Curious what your list looks like.


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## goodboyr

I thought the new Roubaix is innovative in a way that is more practical than other innovations spesh has experimented with. Like of course their bb experiments. The rim brakes in the vias. The umpteen variations on seatpost binders, headset designs, to name a few. All if which made life more complicated for mechanics, but didn't add a bit to performance, and in many cases subtracted from reliability. 

Sent from my SM-G900W8 using Tapatalk


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## mclyons89

11spd said:


> As Butcher said, the finish is perfectly normal. That translucency is to reduce weight...min paint thickness. You will learn to enjoy the aesthetic or at least I have on my previous gen Roubaix.
> 
> Honestly, your review has great merit because you are coming off a venerable race bike with CAAD12. I would think many that would prefer the road feel of the CAAD12 may believe the new Roubaix feels almost too soft or disconnected but you report otherwise and backed with two Strava PRs.
> 
> Congrats on the new bike and thanks for sharing your perspective.
> 
> PS: what spring stiffness are you running in the front and how rough are the roads you ride on in general? Have you taken the bike down a dirt trail or single track?


Using the medium spring, and the roads are all paved other than the wooden plank bridges. Parts of the trail have been uplifted by tree roots and have pot holes due to wear and tear. Had to ride through grass to pass a group of walkers but that was a piece of cake. 

I live in the Washington DC area, and ride mostly on the W&OD trail. 

I live in the city, so some of the roads getting to the trails are pretty rough.

Have not taken the bike on single track, but don't plan to do that. There is plenty of room for fatter tires, so don't see why the roubaix cant be used for cyclocross. 

I have only been in the sport for a few months and have limited experience riding different models of road bikes, but the new roubaix does not feel soft or disconnected at all in my opinion. I have not felt the futureshock while in the saddle going up or down hill.


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## 11spd

mclyons89 said:


> Using the medium spring, and the roads are all paved other than the wooden plank bridges. Parts of the trail have been uplifted by tree roots and have pot holes due to wear and tear. Had to ride through grass to pass a group of walkers but that was a piece of cake.
> 
> I live in the Washington DC area, and ride mostly on the W&OD trail.
> 
> I live in the city, so some of the roads getting to the trails are pretty rough.
> 
> Have not taken the bike on single track, but don't plan to do that. There is plenty of room for fatter tires, so don't see why the roubaix cant be used for cyclocross.
> 
> I have only been in the sport for a few months and have limited experience riding different models of road bikes, but the new roubaix does not feel soft or disconnected at all in my opinion. I have not felt the futureshock while in the saddle going up or down hill.


Thank you for your comments. To me, the new Roubaix with shock can be felt more out of the saddle in terms of negative effect versus riding in the saddle with pressure on saddle and less on the handlebar. Now many that choose a Roubaix likely won't choose it for winning a sprint. But rather for riding less than pristine roads where the bike shines. I believe the bike has value for those that ride rough roads but not a bike I would want to replace my current SL3 Roubaix because I prefer the feel of my bike front to back for the type of roads I ride.

Technology marches forward. I envision a time when bikes may even have active suspension aka electrically controlled damping and possible that when unweighting the saddle when sprinting this could increase damping in front. Even have a knob on the handlebar to dial suspension stiffness front to back. This tech maybe cost prohibitive but exists today.
Cheers.


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## 11spd

goodboyr said:


> I thought the new Roubaix is innovative in a way that is more practical than other innovations spesh has experimented with. Like of course their bb experiments. The rim brakes in the vias. The umpteen variations on seatpost binders, headset designs, to name a few. All if which made life more complicated for mechanics, but didn't add a bit to performance, and in many cases subtracted from reliability.
> 
> Sent from my SM-G900W8 using Tapatalk


Really well stated and completely agree.


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## ToiletSiphon

11spd said:


> Thank you for your comments. To me, the new Roubaix with shock can be felt more out of the saddle in terms of negative effect versus riding in the saddle with pressure on saddle and less on the handlebar. Now many that choose a Roubaix likely won't choose it for winning a sprint. But rather for riding less than pristine roads where the bike shines. I believe the bike has value for those that ride rough roads but not a bike I would want to replace my current SL3 Roubaix because I prefer the feel of my bike front to back for the type of roads I ride.
> 
> Technology marches forward. I envision a time when bikes may even have active suspension aka electrically controlled damping and possible that when unweighting the saddle when sprinting this could increase damping in front. Even have a knob on the handlebar to dial suspension stiffness front to back. This tech maybe cost prohibitive but exists today.
> Cheers.


If there was a way to lock the front end just by flipping a switch before a big climb or sprint, I'd be sold on the technology.


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## 11spd

ToiletSiphon said:


> If there was a way to lock the front end just by flipping a switch before a big climb or sprint, I'd be sold on the technology.


At some point, electronic damping may reach bicycles. It already exists in automobiles. I worked with the brilliant Dr. Emil Starkman in the 90's on this technology. The way it works is..sending an electrical charge through a particular fluid type, increases viscosity of the fluid thereby increasing damping. As battery technology improves, I see a time when supplemental battery power including motors will be integrated into bike tech and even electronic damping built into bicycles.

Here is a bit about how the technology works:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Magnetorheological_fluid


PS: even without a high tech solution, I think it maybe likely that a lock out feature will be added to the new Roubaix in the next year or two...not unlike a mechanical lock out feature which even exists on modestly priced mountain bike front shocks. It would add fractional complexity, cost and weight but maybe a feature some would prefer when riding a Roubaix in an aggressive manner.


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## 1Butcher

Mostly it would allow a new and improved version that will be the reason for you to buy the next version. 

Future-Shock II! You heard it here first.


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## 11spd

1Butcher said:


> Mostly it would allow a new and improved version that will be the reason for you to buy the next version.
> 
> Future-Shock II! You heard it here first.


Agree. When new DNA is created, the thought goes to change and marketing to sell the next generation. To me the front shock seems rather primitive in an era of 'smart' tech. Shocking in fact  ducks.


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## dcgriz

This thread has exhausted its usefuleness. Time to move on!


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