# Is the jump from 10 to 11 speed worth it?



## KennyG (Mar 6, 2007)

I currently have a 2008 Record 10 speed group that is in like new condition with 300 miles on it. I am about to build up a new bike using this group, but toying with the idea of selling it on ebay and getting the new Record 11 speed instead. 

For those of you who have ridden both, is it worth the upgrade? I estimate I will have to shell out about 1,000 to upgrade depending on what I get for my 10 speed stuff. I suppose there is also the option of upgrading the shifters, cassette, chain, rear D, and front chainrings? I assume the front D, and crank arms and brakes would be the same as 11 speed. This option seems like a big pain and probably wouldn't be any cheaper...


----------



## mriddle (Nov 16, 2005)

*Depends...*

I had 2 bikes w/10 speed Record that I coverted to 11. It should not cost you that much if you buy the 11 speed stuff from the UK. If you are not comfortable w/buying from the UK stay w/the 10 speed. 

Also, your feedback strength/rating on ebay is critical to the $ you get for the 10 speed components. I kept my 2008 brakes on both bikes, and used my 2008 10 speed crank on
one of the bikes. So far there is no noticeable difference to me running the 10 speed crank vs. the 11 speed.

One of my bikes has full SR w/a chorus cassette. The other has a mix of Chorus and Record. Both are = in performance. I would take 11 speed Chorus over 10 speed Record. 

Downside is the chain tool, you MUST use the 11 speed Campy tool. You can get that in the UK for $135-$150 US$.

I've ridden various 8/9/10 speed versions of Campy for over 20 years, the 11 speed is IMO the best functioning and feeling products they have ever had. As it should be! You do not need to go with the Super Record, the Chorus is great.

I hope this helps.


----------



## identifiler (Dec 24, 2005)

I have 08 chorus but my back derailleur got banged pretty bad over the years. Can I upgrade (for now) just the back derailleur with Chorus 11 and use as ten speed until I can upgrade front and levers ? Will the chorus 11 beack derailleur function with 10 components ?


----------



## barry1021 (Nov 27, 2005)

KennyG said:


> I currently have a 2008 Record 10 speed group that is in like new condition with 300 miles on it. I am about to build up a new bike using this group, but toying with the idea of selling it on ebay and getting the new Record 11 speed instead.
> 
> For those of you who have ridden both, is it worth the upgrade? I estimate I will have to shell out about 1,000 to upgrade depending on what I get for my 10 speed stuff. I suppose there is also the option of upgrading the shifters, cassette, chain, rear D, and front chainrings? I assume the front D, and crank arms and brakes would be the same as 11 speed. This option seems like a big pain and probably wouldn't be any cheaper...


IMO. it's absolutely worth it....if you are a serious racer. Otherwise frankly I just don't get it. For the extra gear? To save weight? For the ergonomics?. To know you have the latest and greatest? I ride 8, 9 and 10 speed, and as long as I have the right descending and climbing gears for the ride, I quickly adjust to the gears that I have. I know that YMMV, but I don't get spending money for what to me is such marginal improvement.

b21


----------



## BikeProf (May 9, 2006)

I got the 11 because I had a new frame and was not swapping from another bike. I really love the 11, and have absolutely zero complaints, but I don't know if it's worth it if you already have a practically unused 10 speed group.


----------



## dookie (Oct 1, 2007)

how is it that being a 'serious racer' warrants another gear?

atmo, 8s was plenty. if you have kit that works, 'upgrading' to 11s just tells me you have more money than brains. now, if you've got a new frame or worn out ****, maybe. myself, i'd still choose discount 10s.

however, having had my hands on the new (10s) centaur levers, i like the ergonomics. i may switch a bike or two to the '09 10s centaur ergos just for that. but absolutely no ****ing way i'm going for cassette/chain/derailleur/levers just to add a gear.

i mean, please...


----------



## jpdigital (Dec 1, 2006)

I somewhat agree w/ dookie. Even if the 11speed shifts better, what you have is still top-shelf and for all practicle purposes: new. Your not gonna wish you had a different/better shifting system if what your currently using is Record. 

If ergonomics are a cosideration too, get 09 Centaur shifters. I have 07 Centaur & switched my levers to the 09 setup and the way the hoods feel in the hand are simply undescribable. If you do want to add little bling you could get them w/ carbon levers.

If you don't mind dealing w/ UK distributors, you can save yourself well over 50%. I got my alloy 09 Centaur levers for under $150USD from totalcycling.com. I'm currently addicted to probikekit.com which has the Carbon Centaurs listed under $200SUSD (btw that's WITH shipping).


----------



## bigbill (Feb 15, 2005)

My ten speed record stuff was six years old and not too pretty anymore. It still worked great, but I wanted to put new stuff on the Pegoretti. I went with chorus FD, RD, and shifters and a Record crankset. I kept my Mavic SSC brakes since they are the greatest brakes ever made. 

The 11 shifts better, the action is lighter and has worked perfectly so far with no further adjustments. The 12-27 cassette is a nice addition and the chain install wasn't near as bad as I thought it would be. The tool is really expensive and necessary. Hopefully wipperman or Sram come out with a 11 speed chain or at least market a link.


----------



## Ride-Fly (Mar 27, 2002)

*Almost the sme exact dilemma for me...*

except that mine is still new, in the box. I bought it for my custom frame that I've been waiting on for 6 months. Then I got a Colnago Ext C a month after I purchased the custom and R10 group. The dilemma for me is to stay with 10 and buy another R10 set for the XC or sell my current R10 and buy 2 11 groups- 1 R11 and 1 C11 group. I am leaning toward selling the R10 if I can get close to what I paid for it. If not I may just keep it for the custom and still get R11 for the XC. Or keep and hold to sell in the future a NOS R10 and get 2 11 spd groups. What to do what to do????


----------



## r_mutt (Aug 8, 2007)

does anyone know if the groups are the same quality-wise? it seems as if centaur has been moved down a notch in quality (witness the cassette with it's lack of alum. bracket to hold the final 3 gears) .

i feel like chorus us no longer as quality as chorus once was not that super-record is top dog. of course, i'm just guessing here- i could be way off base.


----------



## KennyG (Mar 6, 2007)

r_mutt said:


> does anyone know if the groups are the same quality-wise? it seems as if centaur has been moved down a notch in quality (witness the cassette with it's lack of alum. bracket to hold the final 3 gears) .
> 
> i feel like chorus us no longer as quality as chorus once was not that super-record is top dog. of course, i'm just guessing here- i could be way off base.


To piggy-back on that question, what is the difference between Record 11 and Super Record 11? Is regular Record now the level that Chorus used to be?


----------



## onrhodes (Feb 19, 2004)

Short answer. No, it isn't worth it.
The serious racer comment is way off base, if you're a serious racer, you'd be racing the record 10 you have as it is already a sunk cost to you. Otherwise you'd just go with 2009 centaur because it is available for under $700 if you shop it out in the UK.
What is 1 more gear going to get you? You're stuck for the time being with a proprietary chain and chain tool. Stay with 10 speed and you can use, Connex, Campy, KMC, Shimano, etc.
The only lightening you would see is your bank account/wallet. 
My chorus groups is now 4 years old, I rebuilt the rear shifter this winter for a whopping $50 and it feels good as new. 
I like others have commented already may upgrade the shifters to Centaur before year end, but otherwise, the 11th cog is not a justifiable cost increase.
If you feel the neccesity to spend that $1,000 on bike parts, get yourself some spanky wheels or even a second bike for riding in crappy conditions. 
People will tell you it is worth it, but if you really really really sit down and think about it, what sort of ROI are you going to get? You've got a beautiful group now and at 300 miles it should function absolutely wonderful. Keep it, kill it over the next few years and then you will probably think about upgrading. 
I'm also of the opnion that you should never ever buy the first generation of anything. You already know that they are going to "improve" something for 2010. Plus it gives them some time to work out any potential bugs.


----------



## barry1021 (Nov 27, 2005)

-The serious racer comment is way off base, if you're a serious racer, you'd be racing the record 10 you have as it is already a sunk cost to you-

well it was kind of a mistype, I do not disagree with you, I should have said "professional racer". I clearly question the need to do anything when one has Record 10-I love my DA 8 after all.

b21


----------



## lancezneighbor (May 4, 2002)

No it is not.


----------



## The Green Hour (Jul 15, 2008)

r_mutt said:


> does anyone know if the groups are the same quality-wise? it seems as if centaur has been moved down a notch in quality (witness the cassette with it's lack of alum. bracket to hold the final 3 gears) .
> 
> i feel like chorus us no longer as quality as chorus once was not that super-record is top dog. of course, I'm just guessing here- i could be way off base.



If you go and look at the Campy spare parts section where it shows the exploded mechanical views you can see the parts are identical in all the upper groups. There may be a few bits here and there, but the "meat and potatoes" of the top 3 functioning groups are the same.

Even Centaur has identical parts in the Ultra levers except for the 10 speed ratchet. The Centaur does have a different drivetrain, but the quality is still excellent. 

That is where I go to decide what is real over marketing and bling.:thumbsup:


----------



## bigbill (Feb 15, 2005)

What is worth??? Is it worth it to buy a Colnago Extreme Power to replace a C-40? All we really need is a steel frame and fork with a Veloce group and 3X32 wheels. Anything else isn't "worth" it. In the real world, there are people who want to have nice components and bikes even if it won't make them faster or better looking.


----------



## The Green Hour (Jul 15, 2008)

KennyG said:


> I currently have a 2008 Record 10 speed group that is in like new condition with 300 miles on it. I am about to build up a new bike using this group, but toying with the idea of selling it on ebay and getting the new Record 11 speed instead.
> 
> For those of you who have ridden both, is it worth the upgrade? I estimate I will have to shell out about 1,000 to upgrade depending on what I get for my 10 speed stuff. I suppose there is also the option of upgrading the shifters, cassette, chain, rear D, and front chainrings? I assume the front D, and crank arms and brakes would be the same as 11 speed. This option seems like a big pain and probably wouldn't be any cheaper...



Most of us are being like your parents and looking out for your practical interests, not the emotional factor. 300 miles on Record isn't even close to being broke in. That is the first two days of racing in the Tour with a group that can last for thousands of miles before minimal maintenance is required. 

If I were you, I would not upgrade (not that you would be really upgrading) unless you absolutely love the new levers and had to have them. I would wait at least until the chain issue was addressed by aftermarket links, etc.

I'm still on _turn of the century_ 9 speed Chorus and thinking of going new, but decided on the Centaur Alloy as I really don't need 11 cogs...or even need 10 for that matter. I think the chain issue and the tool has played a role for my decision, and if I had _your_ group, there wouldn't be any decision.:thumbsup:


----------



## C-40 (Feb 4, 2004)

*info...*

You can make the switch for $3-400 with Chorus shifters, cassette, chain and a minor mod to the shift cable clamp bolt on the 10 speed RD.


----------



## lanpope (Nov 16, 2002)

I've got the 11. I've ridden the 10.

Not worth the "upgrade". If replacing get the 11 because it's out.

You can ride mine sometime and decide for yourself if you want (and ride a 59cm bike).

LP (stuck inside b/c it's raining....)


----------



## zamboni (Sep 11, 2003)

My LBS had the Record 11 and I really like the feel on new shifter, specially the brake lever you can tab the mid section without apply any force +1. I'm currently running Record 10 spd and in the process to convert to SR11 ( order placed and wait for shipment to arrive ).


----------



## Eric_H (Feb 5, 2004)

Different strokes for different folks. If I had one bike and my current 10spd group was getting tired I would consider the jump to 11spd. But the reality is that I have multiple bikes (usually 3 or more built at any one time) and enough Campy 10 parts to have 5 complete groups plus 2 extra pair of Ergo levers. I have invested a lot in Campy 10 over the years. So for me, upgrading to 11spd is not really on the horizon. I have taken advantage of some sale pricing to get another pair of 10spd Record Ergopower and I have stocked up on 10spd cassettes, especially since I like the Chorus cassettes with two-cog pairings. Apart from regular maintenance items like chains, cables, chainrings, pulleys and lever rebuilds I am pretty much set for a few more years.

11spd does not really have too much to offer me. I have been fairly consistent in embracing the latest technology in gruppos since I started riding many, many years ago, but for once I think I have hit my technological ceiling. I am one of the so-called "serious racers" and I am perfectly comfortable with either a 12-25 or 11-23 cassette in 10spd. Going 11spd would give me the 18T cog in either cassette, nice, but not essential for my terrain or style. The new hoods are shaped nice, but I have zero ergonomic issues with the 10spd design. Beyond these two items that are marginal for me, I really do not see any other benefits to 11spd.


----------



## dead flag blues (Aug 26, 2004)

I'm intrigued, C-40. Future-reference-wise, anyhow. Guessing you've highlighted this RD mod in another posting?



C-40 said:


> You can make the switch for $3-400 with Chorus shifters, cassette, chain and a minor mod to the shift cable clamp bolt on the 10 speed RD.


----------



## drewmcg (Sep 19, 2005)

*Chorus 10-speed cassettes?*



Eric_H said:


> . . . for me, upgrading to 11spd is not really on the horizon. I have taken advantage of some sale pricing to get another pair of 10spd Record Ergopower and I have stocked up on 10spd cassettes, especially since I like the Chorus cassettes with two-cog pairings. . .


So has Campy stopped manufacturing the Chorus 10-spd cassette? I realize they still make Centaur and Veloce 10-spd cassettes (and they have now moved Centaur to all individual cogs--something my Easton wheel manufacturer says not to use on its freehubs), but there is obviously still a large installed base (read market) out there for the 10 speed cassettes.

But I'm afraid its true, since I have been having a hard time finding the Chorus 10-spd online at some of the lower-price outlets. (Lickbike still seems to have 'em, though.) But this could be retailers trying to reduce their product lines (to make room for the new gruppos) or customers panic-buying what's in stock for fear that Campy will stop making 'em.

If Campy truly has stopped making these, then its a black mark for them. Planned obsolescence: forcing (not quite, let's say "pushing") the customer to make a major investment in the new 11-spd gruppos (or else suffer the shame of having to make do with lower-tech, heavier cassettes). So much for the vaunted durability/re-buildability/long-term viability of the Campy drivetrains!


----------



## dead flag blues (Aug 26, 2004)

Campagnolo is improving the breed by adding an extra gear, improved ergonomics, etc.. If it weren't for Campagnolo innovation, we'd still be using 5 speed freewheels with downtube shifters!

I just picked up 3 10 speed Chorus cassettes from Ribble, IIRC they were approx US$101/each.

Weird about the Easton thing. I was going to use a set of their wheels for cross racing this year. Maybe you could call their tech line to discuss/verify?



drewmcg said:


> So has Campy stopped manufacturing the Chorus 10-spd cassette? I realize they still make Centaur and Veloce 10-spd cassettes (and they have now moved Centaur to all individual cogs--something my Easton wheel manufacturer says not to use on its freehubs), but there is obviously still a large installed base (read market) out there for the 10 speed cassettes.
> 
> But I'm afraid its true, since I have been having a hard time finding the Chorus 10-spd online at some of the lower-price outlets. (Lickbike still seems to have 'em, though.) But this could be retailers trying to reduce their product lines (to make room for the new gruppos) or customers panic-buying what's in stock for fear that Campy will stop making 'em.
> 
> If Campy truly has stopped making these, then its a black mark for them. Planned obsolescence: forcing (not quite, let's say "pushing") the customer to make a major investment in the new 11-spd gruppos (or else suffer the shame of having to make do with lower-tech, heavier cassettes). So much for the vaunted durability/re-buildability/long-term viability of the Campy drivetrains!


----------



## David Loving (Jun 13, 2008)

I'd get it if I was building up a new bike. But alas, I had just finished mine with some campy 10 spd chorus, not even exo, I had on hand before it came out. I believe in supporting and using the new tech. if I have the cash.


----------



## drewmcg (Sep 19, 2005)

*hmmm . . . .*



dead flag blues said:


> Campagnolo is improving the breed by adding an extra gear, improved ergonomics, etc.. If it weren't for Campagnolo innovation, we'd still be using 5 speed freewheels with downtube shifters!
> 
> I just picked up 3 10 speed Chorus cassettes from Ribble, IIRC they were approx US$101/each.
> 
> Weird about the Easton thing. I was going to use a set of their wheels for cross racing this year. Maybe you could call their tech line to discuss/verify?


I actually applaud Campy for the 11-speed development--not my issue at all. But that does not mean abandoning their 10-speed customers (or even relegating them to lower gruppos on wear parts like cassettes). And I'm leary of what it means if Chorus 10-speed cassettes are relegated to "spare parts" status: this sounds even more expensive and difficult to obtain . . . .

I've been checking Ribblecyles.co.uk for several days now--no Chorus 10 speed cassettes on their web site--just Centaur, Veloce, and Miche. How did you find them? Maybe you got the last of their stock!


----------



## dead flag blues (Aug 26, 2004)

Good point about having some availability of overlapping product. On ebay, I've seen some crazy-low prices on new Record 10 all-titanium cassettes, if you're interested in that.

Ribble seem ok, tho I haven't received the package yet. I had it sent to my office, was held in customs until I paid duties of $30.00... Very easy to deal with tho.



drewmcg said:


> I actually applaud Campy for the 11-speed development--not my issue at all. But that does not mean abandoning their 10-speed customers (or even relegating them to lower gruppos on wear parts like cassettes). And I'm leary of what it means if Chorus 10-speed cassettes are relegated to "spare parts" status: this sounds even more expensive and difficult to obtain . . . .
> 
> I've been checking Ribblecyles.co.uk for several days now--no Chorus 10 speed cassettes on their web site--just Centaur, Veloce, and Miche. How did you find them? Maybe you got the last of their stock!


----------



## zamboni (Sep 11, 2003)

No regret for the upgrade from Record 10 to SR11, shifting is quick & precise and ceramic crank is superb.


----------



## tecnosabba (Jan 10, 2007)

*I was glad when 11 sp came out...*

...because it allowed me to get a complete '08 Record group at a significant discount. I love both its function and looks.

Then, of course, I cannot comment on the function of the 11sp group, since I have never tried it.


----------



## zamboni (Sep 11, 2003)

With current discount you can get SR11 for under $2K.


----------



## tecnosabba (Jan 10, 2007)

*Certainly...*



zamboni said:


> With current discount you can get SR11 for under $2K.


...but, as far as I am concerned, it was more the 1100-1200 mark I was aiming at..

And, honestly, maybe SR11 would be a little bit of overkill for me simple mortal, since even some Campagnolo equipped pro-tour teams do not ride SR, but "merely" Record 11.


----------



## towerscum (Mar 3, 2006)

*It's your bike...go for it*

Get what ever you want and spend as much as you feel like spending. If you want it, it's worth it.Feed the need.Post pictures.


towerscum


----------



## zamboni (Sep 11, 2003)

The shifting is much faster than QS 10spd and ceramic crank is incredible smooth.


----------

