# Internal Cable Routing



## My Own Private Idaho (Aug 14, 2007)

If I ever get my hands on the guy who decided that internal cables are a good idea its going to get ugly.


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## JackDaniels (Oct 4, 2011)

Generally the implementation is the problem, not the idea.


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## cxwrench (Nov 9, 2004)

most are easy...some are a complete nightmare. in particular, GURU. damned fool canadians(apologies to the other canadians) designed about the most stupid cable routing i've ever seen in my life. pissed me off so much i actually called and left a profanity laced message on some poor fools voice mail.


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## JoelS (Aug 25, 2008)

I absolutely agree with you! Internal cable routing is a nightmare. Even if the cables get through ok, shifting suffers. 

Along with this I'd put press fit BB's. I've never had a good experience with them. I've gone back to threaded for good.


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## laffeaux (Dec 12, 2001)

I have bikes with two different types of internal routing. One routes the housing through brass tubes inside the frame. Works great! The other frame doesn't use full-housing, but still has small tubes inside to route the cable. Feeding cable through the frame is easy.

Some frames only have entry and exit holes. That's a bad idea.


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## rbart4506 (Aug 4, 2004)

I'm about to start on my 2nd attempt...

First was a nightmare with my Blue AC1, it wasn't the routing of the cables that was the problem, it was the shifting. The Blue had the shifter cables enter the frame at the top tube, ala Cervelo, and make a nice sharp bend where the HT meets the DT....Talk about friction! Add to that the fact the internal guides were crossed as they entered the top tube. Never got the shifting to work on that bike.

Blue was good about it and did warranty the frame, but our local team was sponsored by them and everyone had shifting issues! When I got my warranty frame I promptly sold it...

This time around I'm going with an open mold Chinese frame and again running the cables is a breeze and so far I feel no friction...We'll see how the shifting goes...


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## cxwrench (Nov 9, 2004)

laffeaux said:


> I have bikes with two different types of internal routing. One routes the housing through brass tubes inside the frame. Works great! The other frame doesn't use full-housing, but still has small tubes inside to route the cable. Feeding cable through the frame is easy.
> 
> Some frames only have entry and exit holes. That's a bad idea.


i have 2 Treks w/ internal routing, a Madone and a Cronus. both work like this...cable goes in a hole on the downtube, exits under the bb. no guide tube at all. they work perfectly. the frames come w/ plastic guide tubes installed that you run the cables through then remove the tubes. even if you don't have the tubing, replacing cables is not hard. i think the important thing is how it's engineered. if a designer just puts holes in a frame because they want internal routing, there's a good chance it's gonna suck. but...if some thought is put into how it should work, the results can be very different. from what i've seen, Specialized has a pretty good idea of how to do it. i've built Tarmacs and Shivs, no problems.


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## steelbikerider (Feb 7, 2005)

I've used a coat hanger before to thread cable thru. Start with a hangar (slightly bent worked better). Thread it thru, then slide a small tube or housing on the hanger from the back side. Once it exits from the opposite side, remove the cable and you now have a path for the shifter/brake cable.


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## danl1 (Jul 23, 2005)

cxwrench said:


> i have 2 Treks w/ internal routing, a Madone and a Cronus. both work like this...cable goes in a hole on the downtube, exits under the bb. no guide tube at all. they work perfectly. the frames come w/ plastic guide tubes installed that you run the cables through then remove the tubes. even if you don't have the tubing, replacing cables is not hard. i think the important thing is how it's engineered. if a designer just puts holes in a frame because they want internal routing, there's a good chance it's gonna suck. but...if some thought is put into how it should work, the results can be very different. from what i've seen, Specialized has a pretty good idea of how to do it. i've built Tarmacs and Shivs, no problems.


Yeah - if you have a cable through once, you're in OK shape. Find something like a Nokon liner, and everything is happy. Pull out the cable, then try to figure out what to do, and some versions will punish you severely. 

The sorts that run a full tube, that can take a full housing, that can keep the cable - might just be missing the point of a lightweight, low-friction shifting mechanism. But at least they look goofy, so they have that going for them.


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## Cinelli 82220 (Dec 2, 2010)

Pinarellos come with a plastic tube that guides the brake cable. It can be used for the chainstay derailleur cable too. No problem at all.


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## royta (May 24, 2008)

danl1 said:


> The sorts that run a full tube, that can take a full housing, that can keep the cable - might just be missing the point of a lightweight, low-friction shifting mechanism. But at least they look goofy, so they have that going for them.


Full length cable? Stupid idea.


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## cxwrench (Nov 9, 2004)

royta said:


> Full length cable? Stupid idea.


you pretty much have to have full length cable.


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## royta (May 24, 2008)

royta said:


> Full length cable? Stupid idea.





cxwrench said:


> you pretty much have to have full length cable.


Ugghh. Full length housing. Nice one cxwrench.


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## AtomicMoose (Aug 15, 2012)

rbart4506 said:


> First was a nightmare with my Blue AC1,


I have a Blue AC1 (2011) and I had 0 issues routing the cables. If fact, I'd say it was pretty dang easy. Now, as far as friction goes, I cannot comment on that, but I really haven't noticed much difference.


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## Bremerradkurier (May 25, 2012)

steelbikerider said:


> I've used a coat hanger before to thread cable thru. Start with a hangar (slightly bent worked better). Thread it thru, then slide a small tube or housing on the hanger from the back side. Once it exits from the opposite side, remove the cable and you now have a path for the shifter/brake cable.


I had a late '80s vintage Basso with an internal rear brake cable-a loop in a cable tie inserted in the slot would expand, and you could then capture either the housing or the cable fed in from the other hole.

That said, cable stops on the side of the top tube and two separate lengths of housing provide far better power and lever feel.


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## cxwrench (Nov 9, 2004)

royta said:


> Ugghh. Full length housing. Nice one cxwrench.


gotta stay on top of my game:thumbsup:


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## BacDoc (Aug 1, 2011)

My Own Private Idaho said:


> If I ever get my hands on the guy who decided that internal cables are a good idea its going to get ugly.


I agree!

Let's find this SOB so we can get some pliers, chainsaw and a blow torch and get medieval on his ass!


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## Aikea Guinea (Aug 1, 2012)

I think some of the later model cx bikes that have internal routing w/ full cable housing is a pretty good idea. My road bike has internal routing but it's much more for aesthetics than necessity.


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## MikeWMass (Oct 15, 2011)

If you need to run a cable without a guide, stick a vacuum cleaner at the outlet and feed in some dental floss at the inlet, then tie it to the cable and pull it through.
Having said that, I'm not sure the benefits of internal routing outweigh the costs, unless you are a pro time trialer. Possibly it avoids gunking up the shift cables where they run under the BB. But then, my steel bike from the 70's (Velosolex St. Tropez) has the guides for the derailleur cables mounted to the seat tube above the BB; since I bought my next bike 30 years later, I was never sure why that strategy was abandoned!


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## cxwrench (Nov 9, 2004)

many frames w/ internal routing end up having the cables exposed under the bb, mainly for ease of install/maintenance.


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## myhui (Aug 11, 2012)

Thanks for telling me all the horror stories. I'll just use external routing for my cables then, despite my frame being built for internal routing and I do have those thin white tubes going through all the routing holes.

Just use Scotch Tough Duck Tape to aerodynamically blend your cables into the frame. The tape is clear, so no one will notice.

Smooth shifting contributes to a comfortable ride, and a comfortable ride wins races. If you win, no one will care whether you used internal or external cable routing.


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## Mambac (Sep 18, 2012)

i have no problem paying the LBS $15 to route the cables on my infinito. Too lazy to do it myself. I get frustrated easily with these things.


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## Agent319 (Jul 12, 2012)

I have a Klein that is internal cabeling at the start of the downtube shifting. Anyone know how to route this from the outside if I switch to the new technology Shimano brake shifters from the handlebars? Here is a picture of my bike to give you an idea of what I'm dealing with.

View attachment 264820


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## laffeaux (Dec 12, 2001)

Aikea Guinea said:


> I think some of the later model cx bikes that have internal routing w/ full cable housing is a pretty good idea. My road bike has internal routing but it's much more for aesthetics than necessity.


Yep. Full housing does not increase friction at all, and it keeps the muck out of the housing - full housing is a bit heavier but keeps the shifting smooth for a long time.


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## AndreyT (Dec 1, 2011)

Internal routing works perfectly fine without any "brass tubes". Entry and exit hole with entry and exit guides (to make sure the cable does not rub against the inner surfaces of the frame) is the only thing that is necessary. Full housing is only useful when the cable follows a "difficult" route. Otherwise, full housing serves no purpose.

Problems with naked-cable internal routing usually happen to people who route multiple naked cables through the same tube, yet forget to check is they accidentally crossed the cables. The check is usually easily done with a flashlight and, if required, a small mirror.


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## rbart4506 (Aug 4, 2004)

AtomicMoose said:


> I have a Blue AC1 (2011) and I had 0 issues routing the cables. If fact, I'd say it was pretty dang easy. Now, as far as friction goes, I cannot comment on that, but I really haven't noticed much difference.


Mine was a 2010...They fixed the issues for 2011...


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## brewster (Jun 15, 2004)

laffeaux said:


> I have bikes with two different types of internal routing. One routes the housing through brass tubes inside the frame. Works great! The other frame doesn't use full-housing, but still has small tubes inside to route the cable. Feeding cable through the frame is easy.
> 
> Some frames only have entry and exit holes. That's a bad idea.


I have one Tommasini that has only entry and exit holes. It requires extreme patience, a flashlight in my mouth, dangling the bike upside down for gravity assistance, and a third hand to grab the cable with tweezers on the other end and strategically bring the housing through the tube guide. It's a royal pain. Then, the cable likes to slap the inside of the tube with every bump in the road. It's the only design flaw of that frame.

My other bike is a Rossin and it has a full length guide tube from entry to exit. It's a five second job. Marco was thinking ahead there. :idea:


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## AndreyT (Dec 1, 2011)

brewster said:


> Then, the cable likes to slap the inside of the tube with every bump in the road. It's the only design flaw of that frame.


That's actually often a problem with full-housing setups specifically. The full-housing approach does not require the whole assembly to remain under tension, which is why the housing often gets loose and slaps the inside of the frame tube on the bumps.

When the cable is run bare inside the tube, it is under tension at all times and doesn't slap. Although is the cable guides at the entry and exit holes do not provide enough separation from the frame walls, then it probably might slap as well.


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## nayrb20 (Sep 21, 2012)

It really is unfortunate that people have trouble working on bikes with internal cable housing. If you have the correct set of skill and yes sometimes patience things can get done very quickly. Over the years I have discovered there are some ways to cheat with it...if not grab a headlamp and look into that frame and fish it through.


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## BryanSayer (Sep 22, 2009)

Agent319 - you would need to get external clamp on guides of some type. One would be about at the current shift levers to transition from housing to no housing, and then guide(s) near the BB to route the cables to the derailleurs.


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## Agent319 (Jul 12, 2012)

BryanSayer said:


> Agent319 - you would need to get external clamp on guides of some type. One would be about at the current shift levers to transition from housing to no housing, and then guide(s) near the BB to route the cables to the derailleurs.


Yes I'm looking for an external bar clamp that will have a dia of 2" but it's not proving to be out there. After that it's easy because there is a cable guide for the derailleurs attached to the BB.


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## cxwrench (Nov 9, 2004)

Agent319 said:


> Yes I'm looking for an external bar clamp that will have a dia of 2" but it's not proving to be out there. *After that it's easy *because there is a cable guide for the derailleurs attached to the BB.


wrong. see the posts in your 'other' thread.


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## BLD25 (Jul 14, 2012)

I also have a klein, a quantum pro, with internal routing. I was wondering what type of tubing would be best to purchase so I can run the cables through? The LBS let me borrow one sleeve, but I can't find any more. 

this seems like it would be too big:
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Jagwire-L3-...Cycling_Parts_Accessories&hash=item41661ce6ab

this is just right, but I am not paying $20 for some tubes:
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Klein-Bikes...sure_cycling_bikeparts_SR&hash=item4d0578afaf


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## Boombaux (Jul 21, 2012)

my FM029 has internal. what housing should i use inside as to not cut the carbon?


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## Agent319 (Jul 12, 2012)

cxwrench said:


> wrong. see the posts in your 'other' thread.


Help me out I still can't find a 2" bar clamp but apperently someone has posted it some where as to how to find one.


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## spookyload (Jan 30, 2004)

I recently helped a friend out with his bike build. He dropped it off at the house and I told him he could pick it up the next day. Little did I know it was a Litespeed C1 which is a PITA to begin with due internal routing, but he was also using a Zipp bar which also had internal routing. Super huge PITA at this point. I spent the as much time fitting the cable housing through the bars and stem as I did building the rest of the bike. The worst part was he had bought a high end cable set from Japan. It had brake cable housing as thick as my forearm. Fishing that and a shifter housing through the tiny hole in the bar near the stem was almost the end of me.


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## Mdeth1313 (Nov 1, 2001)

I have a quintana roo TT bike- that one is a total PITA, the 2011 blue ac1sl is a piece of cake.


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## My Own Private Idaho (Aug 14, 2007)

Mdeth1313 said:


> I have a quintana roo TT bike- that one is a total PITA, the 2011 blue ac1sl is a piece of cake.


a QR TT bike, circa 2006 prompted this thread.


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## Danimal (Jan 4, 2005)

Just got my 2012 BMC Road Racer SL01 with internal cables. Not my first internal cable bike (my other one was built in 1992), but it is my first that rattles and hums like crazy. It's the front der. cable near the bottom bracket. Sucks that I have to fix that on a new bike...

Dan


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