# Knee pain



## Dweeb

I completed my second full century yesterday. Withholding the basic details of the ride, late into the the day I was no longer able to stay with my group and rode quite a bit alone. I 'felt' fueled but legs were weak and the last 10 miles were cramping. From reading here, I know the answers to troubles above are ride more, experiment with different foods, and ride more....

I had no issues with comfort within the ride but this morning, the fronts of the knees are aching. the rest of me feels fine. I've done 40-60 mile rides the last several weekends with a shorter higher intesity ride mid-week and not had this issue. Perhaps it will fade, but wanted to ask the masses if anyone has experienced this on longer rides and what their remedy was.


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## KenSmithMT

My understanding is that pain in the front of the knee is generally caused by pedaling too hard/too high of gear. Spin slightly faster in a lighter gear and it should not be a problem. The same could have caused the burn out/cramping that you had not experienced before. Bike fit could also be an issue, but again, if it has not been a problem before, not likely now.

Someone please correct me if I'm wrong.


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## poff

Do a bike fit and U also may also switch to Rotor Q-rings.


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## sbsbiker

I had issues with my knees till I got fit by a PT trained to do bike fits. I needed insoles and what I felt was a drastic change in my position. Next season was pain free, and I felt better on the bike andscoredmsome of my best results racing marathon xc mtbikes. Find a good bike fitter and get a your position checked, cycling can hurt your knees if your position is wrong.


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## qatarbhoy

I have incurred the same front-of-knee pain from riding up hills in too high a gear. As mentioned above, you may need to spin the pedals in an easier gear rather than pushing, as it appears from your post that you are otherwise comfortable with your bike fit.


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## ddimick

It's possible your saddle height is too low.


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## sbsbiker

qatarbhoy said:


> I have incurred the same front-of-knee pain from riding up hills in too high a gear. As mentioned above, you may need to spin the pedals in an easier gear rather than pushing, as it appears from your post that you are otherwise comfortable with your bike fit.


Proper fit isn't about comfort, a rider can be in a confortable position on the bike and not be in the correct position for your muscles/joints. I was confortable in my old position, I had my saddle too far back, and it left me in a bad position mechanically. The new position is just as confortable, it just allow me to use my muscles better, and puts less stress on my knees because the lever action in my legs has been optimized. 

Anyone who is active in the sport should invest in a professional bike fit, and not just having the local shop eyeball their position.


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## Dweeb

*better now*

Thanks for your responses. The pain/discomfort disappeared the next day although when I went for a light spin I felt it somewhat when putting any power into the pedals. Because of the circumstances and conditions of the century, I believe that too much effort/big gear was used at times for more hours than I am used too.

I have ridden a hard effort since then and felt fine. I just wanted to get a jump on anyting you more experienced riders may recovered from. Thanks again!


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## robwh9

My knee pain went away when I switched to Time ATAC pedals.


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## PedalFasterJonathan

You may have stiff or tight muscles elsewhere which are causing some pain in the knees. Stretching / flexibility workouts might help if the issue continues.


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## howdager

I suffered from very bad knee pain for a while and found it was only my IT band. I've been able to control it primarily though stretching, massage, etc. 

Anyone have any tips for controlling IT tightening during longer rides?


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## RayfromTX

Roll your IT band on a foam roller. It is not a muscle. You can't stretch it out. Google ITBS. IT band syndrome affects runners and cyclists that do long rides. I have rolled mine out on the side of the road with a full water bottle. The triggerpoint foam roller works great.


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## razardica

RayfromTX said:


> Roll your IT band on a foam roller. It is not a muscle. You can't stretch it out. Google ITBS. IT band syndrome affects runners and cyclists that do long rides. I have rolled mine out on the side of the road with a full water bottle. The triggerpoint foam roller works great.


You can use a tennis ball too if you're good at rolling.


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## howdager

thanks for the tip about the water bottle. I've been using a foam roller at home and yes it does work very well..


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## endlesscycle

It is possible that when you became fatigued in your last century you executed poor posture while pedaling. When your legs can't make a perfect rotation it is a common break in posture to open the legs slightly outward. A slight angle off parallel, specially through many miles of repetition, can accumulate injury to the various ligaments in the knee joint as it will be slightly twisted. Opening the legs outwards is also a common posture mistake people make when riding uphill on heavy gear or even flat on a heavy gear.

Do some training sessions specifically with posture, precision in movement and fluidity in mind. Bring your cadence down so you can concentrate on perfecting a nice rotation, pushing and pulling through the movement and keeping both legs parallel to each other. Posture is developed through time, it is a matter of training your brain so that it will do it automatically for you.


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## dcgriz

Dweeb said:


> I completed my second full century yesterday. Withholding the basic details of the ride, late into the the day I was no longer able to stay with my group and rode quite a bit alone. I 'felt' fueled but legs were weak and the last 10 miles were cramping. From reading here, I know the answers to troubles above are ride more, experiment with different foods, and ride more....
> 
> I had no issues with comfort within the ride but this morning, the fronts of the knees are aching. the rest of me feels fine. I've done 40-60 mile rides the last several weekends with a shorter higher intesity ride mid-week and not had this issue. Perhaps it will fade, but wanted to ask the masses if anyone has experienced this on longer rides and what their remedy was.


You do too much too soon and the knee will hurt. Leave your fit alone if your typical 40-6 mile ride is fine.


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## aclinjury

dcgriz said:


> You do too much too soon and the knee will hurt. Leave your fit alone if your typical 40-6 mile ride is fine.


That's what I was kinda thinking too. OP has pain in front of the knee, and that's typical pushing a heavy gear too long, longer than his knee can stand. Fitting isn't going to fix it.

OP, what is your cadence? Is it under 90?


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## afsf

Probably pedaling too hard / too high gear


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## pulser955

I have been having the same knee problem the last few weeks. I am doing 5 and 6 hour rides on the weekends and they include 9 to 30 miles of climbing. And 5k of elevation gain with 12% switchbacks at the top. I was running a 53/39 with an 11x25 cassette. I just switched to a 52/36. If I still cant spin on the really steep stuff I will try changing the rear cassette to a 11x27. I race so I need the downhill speed of the 11 with at lest a 52.


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## JACD

I had the same issue. Recently I rode with a much more experienced rider. He's accustomed to a 22-26 average and I certainly an not. 16 is a good ride for me. In any event, I spent most of the ride behind him trying to catch up or at least stay with him. I was almost always on the big ring and simply over working myself well beyond my capabilities. About 12 miles into this 43 mile ride (14.1 average and 1069 feet), my knee started hurting. A LOT! I eased up a bit and it felt a bit better. Feeling better, I stepped it up again and it hurt more. So I rode toward home while Joel continued on for a 60 mile ride.

I took Monday off and feeling better on Tuesday, went for a slow trial ride to test the knee with the intention of turning back at the first sign of pain. After reading the posts in this thread, I set out with the intention of staying on the little ring for a higher cadence. I felt great and rode for just under 9 miles, 15.3 for 139 feet. Yeah, not a lot of hills, but I'm new to this and building. But no pain at all. not even a slight twinge.

Lower gears helped me a lot. Another friend who is all about cadence suggested I ride one gear lower than the one I think I should be in. His advice worked for me.

John.


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## tsunayoshi

dcgriz said:


> You do too much too soon and the knee will hurt. Leave your fit alone if your typical 40-6 mile ride is fine.


This is my thought...you jumped your distance too much with no adaptationion. And probably went harder than you should have for doing that distance for the 1st time...


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## Whale_520

*Summary?*



Dweeb said:


> I completed my second full century yesterday. Withholding the basic details of the ride, late into the the day I was no longer able to stay with my group and rode quite a bit alone. I 'felt' fueled but legs were weak and the last 10 miles were cramping. From reading here, I know the answers to troubles above are ride more, experiment with different foods, and ride more....
> 
> I had no issues with comfort within the ride but this morning, the fronts of the knees are aching. the rest of me feels fine. I've done 40-60 mile rides the last several weekends with a shorter higher intesity ride mid-week and not had this issue. Perhaps it will fade, but wanted to ask the masses if anyone has experienced this on longer rides and what their remedy was.


Dweeb, JACD,

I think everyone here has covered the basic issue in different ways. The most simplistic way to explain knee pain under the knee cap or "in the front" is to say that you've been exerting too much (or more than you're used to) force on your knee. The four most common explanations for this are...



Too big of a gear
Saddle too far forward
Saddle too low
Over exerting yourself (too long or hard)

The first is easy to fix, increase your cadence. :thumbsup: The following two involve getting a proper fit. It basically comes down to the fact that if pedaling forces aren't properly transferred down your leg your tendons get stressed causing pain. Usually the last cause is compounded by the previous three. You should be able to ride to muscle failure before knee pain in a perfect world. 

I'd rule out two and three with a proper fit. Rule out one by not mashing gears. Then stay within yourself. 

Hope this helps.


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## JACD

Nice summation, Whale 520.

My post was in support of what was already said and how it helped me. Your advice is nice and clear.

Thanks.


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## duffin

I am new to cycling but have been training in the gym with lunges and core 3-4 a week plus I've taking 20-30 mile rides at 1.5-2 hours with 1-2 Cat 4 climbs per ride about 2-3 times a week.

This weekend I did my first ever 50 mile loop with 4 Cat 4 climbs. I felt great after. Next day and day after (today), I have a very stiff left knee, kinda like tendinitis but mostly on lower inside portion. 

Anyone have suggestions for restoration or what happened?

I've had a pro fit my bike and I like riding at lower cadence when possible. I just switched from a 12-25 cassette to 12-27 help with the cat 4 climbs.

Thanks in advance for any advice.


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## docklobster

I would add two more:

5. Hamstrings too tight - I have found stretching a key component of reducing knee pain for myself.
6. Omega 3 - for whatever reason I have also seen a reduction in knee pain when regularly taking these.

good luck..


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## wannaXbe

Omega 3's all the way. They are like WD-40 for the joints. Have a barber that arthritis in his hands and started taking them and he is arthritis free he says.


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## qatarbhoy

Meantime he still dices your ears and chops random clumps of your hair...


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## duffin

I've been popping Omega 3 and Potassium Glutamate with stretching and pain has reduced. I was able to do two 30 mile rides in two days. Thanks for the suggestions!


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## Rojoyinc

*bikes and knee's*

hi ya'all. I'm new here... just ordered a 2013 C'dale Synapse Carbon 4 today. I've been cycling since early summer. (newbie). I had bought a Scott Speedster S20 but found a used good deal that was to big for me. Compressing in all the adjustments... my right IT band was bothering me on longer rides. So against my wifes better judgement... and without her knowing. I ordered one today. I think it comes this week. Excited to have a bike that fits! Went from 56cm Scott which i LOVED to a 51cm C'dale.

I went for the black red carbon colors. Hoping my knee works better on this bike. I had booked a 275.00 fit. But knew my bike was to big. And figured that 275 could go toward the solution. (smaller bike) so went that route instead. If I have problems now, Ill do the techincal fit. But for now the free "buy a bike we fit it" will be enough to finish out the season here in Michigan.

I enjoyed this thread.
Ron in MI


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## froze

Try reviewing the tips found on these web sites on knee issues as well. Most of this stuff is probably already covered by the other posters but it will give you visual aid and confirmation.

How to Fit a Bicycle
Bike Fit - Proper Bike Fit Can Prevent Pain and Injury
Bike 101 - Bike Fit
Bike Fitting - YouTube (for tri bike fit, but there are other films)
Proper Bike Fit


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## sydex

I have bad knees, a buddy of mine told me to try out his old set of "bio-pace" cranks. My knees have been fine since I made the switch.


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## wesb321

This thread makes me wish I could buddy up with a Dr. that was also a cat1 racer. The perfect mix!


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## loona

front of knee hurts. seat too low.
back of knee hurt. seat is too high
side of knee hurts. cleat needs shim or bottom bracket needs centered equally between legs


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## Dave Cutter

Rojoyinc said:


> hi ya'all. I'm new here... just ordered a 2013 C'dale Synapse Carbon 4 today............... against my wifes better judgement... and without her knowing. I ordered one today.


I did something like that a couple seasons ago. And... I really sorta thought the wife might be kinda ticked. I was mistaken.... she was *greatly ticked*. But she didn't say much. Actually she didn't even speak to me for several days.

But it all worked out and we are both very happy with my cycling/purchase... now. Best of luck!


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## Srode

I don't know if Omega or Glucosamine would help knee problems from cycling due to position or over use - these are more joint related and the symptoms sound more tendon/ligament related which are typical cycling related. I take both and they help me with joint soreness, but not the cycling related stress which I recently experienced when I went through an extreme increase in hours in the saddle for a 60 hour Strava Challenge.


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## froze

I never found personally, or ever knew anyone that glucosamine ever worked for mine or their sore joints. A lot of this stuff found in health and vitamin industry is pure nonsense, or snake oil, and there are studies that prove there isn't any evidence substantial enough to make the claim that this stuff does work. See this for more info: Science-Based Medicine » Does Glucosamine Really Work? I don't take multivitamins and haven't for 40 years, but I tried the Gluco and Chon stuff due to some shoulder joint aching I had going on, and after 90 days of taking that stuff I felt the same - aching shoulder joint. The good news is that the shoulder no longer aches...of course I had surgery on it and they cleaned up the problem!!

the vitamin/herb industry is largely pseudo mumbo jumbo.


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## hicksycle

Reasons I have had for knee pain:
Mechanical reasons:
Saddle too low
Bottom Bracket worn out
Not enough gears up a steep slope (*)
Physical Reasons:
Exerting very high torque up a steep slope (*)
Cycling after not sleeping well
Eating more food than necessary
More likely to happen in cold weather


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## Rojoyinc

I bought a IT BAND (strap) at local running shop and it's helped a great deal. It pushes inward on the band and stops it from snapping over the bump on the bone. HOWEVER the strap isn't real comfortable as it needs to be extremely tight to push hard enough.


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