# Madone saddles



## dave_gt (Jul 25, 2008)

I dunno, maybe it's the fact I have been out of work with no income for the last nine months, but with time to reflect, I have a question:

Why does Trek continue to put the saddles on the Madones that are:
1. Uncomfortable
2. Not found on the pro tour bikes
3. Cause numbness and worse
4. Not engineered properly

Granted, my background is 38 years of civil engineering, but for the life of me, I cannot understand why saddles have to be so uncomfortable that we have to wear a "diaper" of sorts inside our riding shorts to be able to ride them! Why add an extra item between the rider and the bike when the seat can be made to be comfortable?

Not only that, but Lance Armstrong does not use a standard Bontrager weapon of *ass destruction...he uses a much more comfortable saddle. And, as of yesterday, he can still procreate. 

I have finally come to terms (read that as begrudgingly able to tolerate it) with my Bontrager saddle and can actually tolerate a whole hour after six months. But, I still do not understand where the engineers are in the design of these saddles.

Somehow I still feel that we are in the dark ages in saddle design and rider/bike interface. Maybe we should take that interface responsibility away from the apparel manufacturers.

At least it is raining and I get a break between rides!!!


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## Silver Potato (Mar 18, 2009)

Just as bikes come w/o pedals I almost think they should come w/o saddles. I have always replaced any off the shelf bike that I did not build up myself with my favorite...the Selle Italia Flite....both mtn and road.


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## dave_gt (Jul 25, 2008)

Now, that is a good suggestion. Works for me...now to get rid of the diaper pad we have to sit on.


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## zac (Aug 5, 2005)

dave_gt said:


> Now, that is a good suggestion. Works for me...now to get rid of the diaper pad we have to sit on.


Why on God's green Earth would you want to do that? Having saddle seams and raw spandex/lycra eating into your crotch seems like an exercise in new found torture. The added moulded padding the chamois also adds helps immensely too.

As for saddles, 1) get one that fits you. One that doesn't work for you works for many others and visa-versa. I actually feel the new Madone saddle was the first in a long line that was actually usable. I understand your pain though, touch points are what you reflect on the most. 2) It takes years and trying out many saddles sometimes to get a saddle you truly love. 3) Also newer riders always suffer saddle soreness. It'll go away....eventually. I promise, so long as the saddle you are using fits your sit bones. As an example, many riders find the Fizik Arione (sp?) to be a comfortable saddle. I personally don't like it. On the other hand I find the Selle Italia SLR to be a comfortable saddle (and indeed is my main saddle on 3 bikes), others can't ride 5 miles on it.

Lastly, I also have long thought that bikes should come without saddles. Shops can't afford to eat the take offs. Perhaps by supplying a cheapo saddle in the first place, the manufacturers are essentially doing that, but hardly any higher end road/mtb bikes come with cheapo saddles.

zac


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## jtsk (Mar 6, 2002)

Like most of us, I've tried many saddles and settled on one for many years. For me, it was the Terry Fly Ti. Not very race-y looking and fairly heavy by today's standards, but it worked for me for many years.

So, this year when I bought a new Madone, I assumed I'd have to replace the standard Bontrager Race X Lite saddle with a Fly or something else. But I decided I'd give it a try for awhile and see if the two of us could get along. Much to my surprise, the RXL is great! I've ridden it about 900 miles now and it works great for me.

What have I learned? Saddles are very personal. What works for one person may not work for most other people. Which is why there are dozens of saddle manufacturers and hundreds of saddle models.

I was shocked when the stock Bontrager RXL saddle was fairly comfortable and once I got 6-8 rides on it, it was as comfortable as my old Terry Fly. Obviously, the Bontrager saddles are not for you, and unfortunately the only way to find a saddle is try them until you find one that works.

The fact that Lance doesn't ride a Bontrager saddle on a Trek bike means nothing other than, just like you it does not work for him. It does not mean they don't work for some people.....like me. You'll find many, many different kinds of saddles in the pro peleton. Few of them are what comes standard on the bikes they ride.

Good luck searching and I hope the lack of the correct saddle for you doesn't keep you from getting on your bike. As anybody who has ridden the wrong saddle, I can appreciate your frustration.


EDIT: I think you are misunderstanding the primary purpose of chamois. It's to keep moisture away from your skin for extended periods of time. While it does provide some minimal padding that can help dampen bumps and road vibration, that is not the primary purpose of chamois lined cycling shorts.


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## dave_gt (Jul 25, 2008)

Hi, Zac...

I agree with what you're saying. But, from an engineering/logic point, why not do a better job of engineering the saddle to begin with? It is an absolute certainty in 20 years, there will be better engineered saddles. Why not do it now? I find it quite archaic to buffer our butts with something sewn into our pants! And, then, we still have to choose from hundreds of saddle choices at what, about $100 each?

As a long-time engineer, I can envision the progression of design but at my age, I won't be riding in 30 years, so, waiting is not an option that I personally like.

I would love to have bought the Madone without a saddle and gone through a fitting procedure for the right saddle to begin with. Just wishing...


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## zac (Aug 5, 2005)

dave_gt said:


> Hi, Zac...
> 
> I agree with what you're saying. But, from an engineering/logic point, why not do a better job of engineering the saddle to begin with? It is an absolute certainty in 20 years, there will be better engineered saddles. Why not do it now? I find it quite archaic to buffer our butts with something sewn into our pants! And, then, we still have to choose from hundreds of saddle choices at what, about $100 each?
> 
> ...


Dave, I don't understand what you mean a better job? I have several saddles that I find perfectly fine and comfortable. There is nothing to improve. I gave some examples, and I ride many saddles, all of which are just fine. There are literally scores of saddles and shapes available. Hell, saddle companies like Selle Italia have dozens of different models, and they are just one of many.

You are experiencing what is common to many newer riders, your ass just isn't used to the time in the saddle. It is like playing guitar...It takes months of sometimes painful practice/playing to callous over your finger tips so that fretting the stings no longer hurts. 

Dave another thing that you may need to do is to adjust your saddle. It may just be in the wrong place. Experiment with subtle changes to forward/backward tilt. To fore/aft placement on the post. Hell many good seat posts (including the Madone mast cap) allow for a few degrees of yaw adjustment too. You may also want to experiment with saddle height too...sometimes 1-2mm up or down can be the world of difference (usually more in the knees) but sometimes on the butt too.

I am still perplexed at your apathy to the chamois though. If you want to get a blister(s) on your ass be my guest, I will pass on that one.  I don't care how tough you are, you do any regular moderate riding and you will be regretting lack of a chamois.


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## Sweet Milk (Oct 13, 2004)

For me the Race X Lite saddles are the most comfortable ones I found yet. Ironically, my previous favorite was the Selle San Marco Concor Light, which is Armstrong's favorite perch.

Note that my least favorite so far is the Arione, which is one of the most raved about saddles -- it's all personal.

I fail to see how proper engineering would create a universally comfortable racing saddle, there is just too much variation in body dimensions.

I'll take jtsk's remark about the purpose of the chamois one further: if it provides too much padding I get circulation issues. Not using a shammy could very quickly lead to rashes and fungal issues


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## 2ndGen (Oct 10, 2008)

Sweet Milk said:


> For me the Race X Lite saddles are the most comfortable ones I found yet. Ironically, my previous favorite was the Selle San Marco Concor Light, which is Armstrong's favorite perch.


I just read (believe it or not) that Armstrong chose a Bonty Race saddle for his current ride.


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## WWU (Oct 7, 2008)

Looks like a Selle San Marco Concor to me...


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## 2ndGen (Oct 10, 2008)

WWU said:


> Looks like a Selle San Marco Concor to me...


How old is that picture?

And is that his "race" bike?


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## zac (Aug 5, 2005)

2ndGen said:


> How old is that picture?
> 
> And is that his "race" bike?


He rides a Concor and has for years and still does. That pic is about two week ago and that is his Giro bike. That was probably the Blockhaus stage.


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## brentley (Jul 20, 2008)

Yes he rides a concur, for some reason I also think that Alberto Contador does as well.

I had an 08 madone and the saddle was okay, not great, but not evil. 

I replaced it with an Arione and so far so good. 

I did try the new bonty inform in both 143 and 155 widths (whatever the fitter deal recommended) and was totally miserable. They just rubbed me the wrong way, even with copious amounts of screwing around with them.

Ironically I still ride the Selle San Marco Aspide that came on my 2001 Trek 5200 on the replacement bike and love it.

saddles are like opinions, everyone has one (or more) and they are not always in agreement.


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## quickfeet18 (Mar 2, 2007)

WWU said:


> Looks like a Selle San Marco Concor to me...



Armstrong was trying out bontrager saddles this year before going back to a concor.

I love both the arione and the race X lite saddles as well.


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## jsedlak (Jun 17, 2008)

I haven't tried the new saddles (09+) but they are supposed to be much better than the previous ones. I ditched my 08 saddle very quickly for a Specialized Phenom Gel and haven't looked back.


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