# Avg speed on 50 mile solo??



## rydbyk

What do you guys/gals typically avg in the realm of speed when riding ALONE? I am averaging 18 mph on 50 mile SOLO training rides. Is this considered fast or slow? I race mtn bikes, but I am not sure how I am doing in comparison to roadies yet.

Any clue as to what Cat this would put me at more or less??


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## atown117

There's way to many factors involved to make comparisons. There could be hills, or wind that could change the avg speed significantly. If it's a flat course I would say that would put you in the 4/5 bracket.


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## oily666

OK, I'll bite. How old are you? How much do you ride? Where do you ride? Are you leaving it all out on the road to average 18 MPH? Does anyone pass you? How does that make you feel?


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## rydbyk

oily666 said:


> OK, I'll bite. How old are you? How much do you ride? Where do you ride? Are you leaving it all out on the road to average 18 MPH? Does anyone pass you? How does that make you feel?


36 yrs old. 

Riding about 100 to 150 miles per week. 

West coast riding...mix of flats and hills... 50 miles = 2300 ft. elevation gain.

Avg HR 160

People do not pass me much...but it happens...

How does what make me feel?


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## jorgy

rydbyk said:


> How does what make me feel?


He's asking how you feel after the ride. On a solo ride I'd probably average about 16mph or so. On group rides of the 50-60mi distance where my average is closer to 19-20mph I definitely feel pretty trashed--in a good way--after the ride.

Depends on how your computer is set up, though. Mine is set to auto start-stop, so it will stop when I do, but it does record when I'm slowing and stopping for lights.

I knew someone who set their Garmin to only record above a certain speed, meaning none of the slow (lights, hills) points were recorded. Surprise--his average speed was several MPH more than mine.


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## nomit

> Avg speed on 50 mile solo??


21-22 flatish
18-19 mountainish

race endurance SS mtb. no clue where it puts me roadiewise.


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## ZoSoSwiM

I did a 56 mile hammerfest 3 weeks ago and managed an average of 19.1mph. The wind was in my face for the first half and at my back for the last 12 miles or so. I had an average HR of 162. The route I took was rolling terrain with some climbing but not a lot. Same route last year I averaged 16.8mph.

This past weekend I pegged out a 30 mile ride as hard as possible for the 2nd half and averaged 19.5mph.. 178hr for over a half hour. 
Did the same route last year at 17 or so mph.


As I've gotten better my speeds have increased but my effort has stayed the same.

So many factors though.. the wind around here can be brutal.. Regularly turning my easy rides into death marches.

If you're able to hold 18 or so MPH you're doing pretty good!


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## Hank Stamper

Sign up for a cat 5 race and find out.

Until everyone starts getting their average speeds in a controlled environment they are pretty close to useless for purposes of comparing one person to the next especially over the intrawebs with people riding all over the place so having different definitions of what hills and wind really means.

I use them to track my own progress on the same route that I use as a measuring stick but that's about it. Even then the wind and temperature (cold air is more dense thus slower) come into play so the same route isn't really the same route consistantly.


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## Hank Stamper

edit, double posted


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## Creakyknees

that's a pretty good average speed; I'm a cat 3 and my typical 50 mile route has way less elevation, and if when I finish it with an 18+ average it's been a good hard tempo ride.

but, that has nothing to do with mass-start racing ability. most American (short) races are decided by max efforts and sustained efforts above sustainable pace.


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## spade2you

Hank Stamper said:


> Sign up for a cat 5 race and find out.


Pretty much sums it up. 

Average speed really doesn't indicate too much. Cat 5 road races generally aren't 50 miles and if you're riding alone, you've been dropped. 

Cat 5 is shorter and often more intense. Quite often, due to constant attacks and shorter distances, you may find that the average Cat 5 speed is higher than Cat 4. Tactics can be hit or miss, as is overall consistency. I'll be upgrading very soon, but sometimes the race is down right dangerous and sometimes you wanna say that you wouldn't expect the quality you just saw. 

There really aren't any "tricks" to doing well other than some common sense and good overall shape. Even then, luck still plays a part as there are no strategies that will work 100% of the time.

That's racing.


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## MR_GRUMPY

Three years ago, I rode a Metric Century solo, and managed to average 19. By the end, I was seeing stars.

On the other hand, a long, long time ago, my mentor did a ride that put me to shame. He did an 50 mile ITT in a hair over two hours, averaging 24.8.
(He was a national champ, and went to the olympics)
Back in the dark ages they had crazy events like the 50 mile ITT.


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## rydbyk

Hmm...some good feedback here. I do understand that there are a number of variables, such as wind etc to factor in to the equation. I just wanted some ballpark feedback is all.


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## T-Doc

No matter how fast you ride solo on a 50 mile ride, racing is a totally different experience. you really need to do some practice rides with some of the local race teams to see how you fare.


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## rydbyk

T-Doc said:


> No matter how fast you ride solo on a 50 mile ride, racing is a totally different experience. you really need to do some practice rides with some of the local race teams to see how you fare.



Yeh..that makes sense. I was kind of wondering if possible there was a general rule of thumb in regards to training ie: "if you want to race cat 3, then you should be able to avg 19+ mph on most solo rides".....for example...


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## ridenfish39

T-Doc said:


> No matter how fast you ride solo on a 50 mile ride, racing is a totally different experience. you really need to do some practice rides with some of the local race teams to see how you fare.


Exactly. Do a local training crit and see if you can stay on the front most of the ride. 
My very hilly tt effort I do to gauge my fitness is 59 miles with 5000 feet of climbing, and only 2 lights on the ride I have to stop at. Did a 19.5 mph average the other week.


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## Sonomasnap

rydbyk said:


> Yeh..that makes sense. I was kind of wondering if possible there was a general rule of thumb in regards to training ie: "if you want to race cat 3, then you should be able to avg 19+ mph on most solo rides".....for example...



Dude if you want to race Cat3? That is not how it works. You will get dropped your first Cat5 race. You will barely hang on for awhile after that. If you don't quit you will do 10 races and get your Cat4 upgrade. If you are in SoCal you will probably not upgrade to Cat3 for at least 2 seasons if ever. In the meantime expect to crash at least once, maybe break a collarbone, get smoked in many races, question why you do this crazy sport and then figure out you have to ride 250+ miles a week all year long, do intervals, hill repeats, lose weight and learn tactics and strategy on the bike. That is IF you want to race Cat3. :mad2:


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## rydbyk

Sonomasnap said:


> Dude if you want to race Cat3? That is not how it works. You will get dropped your first Cat5 race. You will barely hang on for awhile after that. If you don't quit you will do 10 races and get your Cat4 upgrade. If you are in SoCal you will probably not upgrade to Cat3 for at least 2 seasons if ever. In the meantime expect to crash at least once, maybe break a collarbone, get smoked in many races, question why you do this crazy sport and then figure out you have to ride 250+ miles a week all year long, do intervals, hill repeats, lose weight and learn tactics and strategy on the bike. That is IF you want to race Cat3. :mad2:



Are you frustrated because this has been YOUR experience? I have tons of racing experience, both BMX and mountain. I have raced mtn. for 20 years. I started in high school in the 90's and still race today...just did Sea Otter last month. While I may get dropped on my first Cat5 race, I am not sure it is fair to make that claim....maybe it is??

I rode for 2 months in Europe (not competively, but tons of miles) for a summer in high school. I was hoping to weigh what is said here in this forum with what has been said in my local club rides...that is all. I mention this simply because I would like for you to understand that I am far from noob....just noob to racing ROAD.

I AM SURE that there IS an average speed that most Cat 1 thru Cat 5 riders ride at when hammering solo on distance rides (think time trial:idea: )....MAYBE it is not calculated into the equation....apparently it is not. For the most part, I do understand the dynamics of both road races and crits, as I have been watching them for years....just not competing is all. Yes, there is a difference, but I am sure it is not overwhelming....

I have been doing club simulated crits that avg high speeds on flat and do OK for the most part...


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## thegock

*18mph is pretty good*

+1 to Sonomasnap. You’re a CAT 5 until you prove otherwise.

I averaged 17.5mph a couple of weeks ago with 3,600+ vf. Racing is a different game. I did a crit in Prospect Park, Brooklyn a couple of years ago on my old steel Colnago which is my only whip I can afford to replace. The average was 24.67mph for me and I got dropped on the break 3 miles from the line.

When I go to the Tuesday night crit training at Rahway River Park, my eyeballs bleed for the eight or nine laps I can hang on at 25.7mph.  I am 55 years old but don't do any intervals. I hate the trainer and hit it for 10-20 hours a year.


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## MR_GRUMPY

No matter how fast you get, there's always somebody faster.

I skipped doing a 40K last weekend.
Thank god.
A guy in my old farts masters division did a :55:59
(I hate him)


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## Sumguy1

Isn't it all about power output anyways? Who talks about mph? As has been said, too many variables for mph to really have much relevance in a my dick is bigger than yourn conversation.

This thread actually made me look at my numbers for the past two months and damn if my avg mph hasn't been going down - while my watts have been going up. Too much climbing, too many intervals and too many long rests between 'em.


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## rydbyk

Sumguy1 said:


> Isn't it all about power output anyways? Who talks about mph? As has been said, too many variables for mph to really have much relevance in a my dick is bigger than yourn conversation.
> 
> This thread actually made me look at my numbers for the past two months and damn if my avg mph hasn't been going down - while my watts have been going up. Too much climbing, too many intervals and too many long rests between 'em.


I guess I need to go purchase a $700+ power tap to figure this out. I will get right on that... Mph is mentioned quite a bit when watching races such as the Giro etc.. Maybe it has NO relevance, but it is actually mentioned quite a bit in cycling. I did mention that my particular ride was 50 miles with 2000+ feet of climbing...seems fairly typical for west coast. Just thought that maybe some members could offer up their avg speeds and Cat levels perhaps for SIMILAR RIDES...guess I was way off...


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## khaizlip

rydbyk said:


> I guess I need to go purchase a $700+ power tap to figure this out. I will get right on that... Mph is mentioned quite a bit when watching races such as the Giro etc.. Maybe it has NO relevance, but it is actually mentioned quite a bit in cycling. I did mention that my particular ride was 50 miles with 2000+ feet of climbing...seems fairly typical for west coast. Just thought that maybe some members could offer up their avg speeds and Cat levels perhaps for SIMILAR RIDES...guess I was way off...


Fine, here's one (likely useless) data point. 
I'm 24, raced cat 5 in several races last summer and just upgraded to 4 (my first race as a 4 is this weekend). did a 50-miler a couple days ago, 2200' climbing, and averaged 17.7 mph. I was sort of loafing for the whole ride and had a stiff wind out of the sw. At the end I wasn't really tired, could have probably done it again if I had someone egging me on. 
http://connect.garmin.com/activity/33536102

I've gotten dropped from the peloton in every rr I've ever done and finished like 28/41 starters in my first circuit race a couple of weeks ago. I had a similar mediocre finish in a crit (avg 23.7mph, w/ avg hr 187 over a lousy ten miles) two weeks later. 

believe all these people when they say it depends on the day, the course, and who shows up to race. I was looking for the same kind of comparison when I started. it doesn't mean a lot.


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## rydbyk

khaizlip said:


> Fine, here's one (likely useless) data point.
> I'm 24, raced cat 5 in several races last summer and just upgraded to 4 (my first race as a 4 is this weekend). did a 50-miler a couple days ago, 2200' climbing, and averaged 17.7 mph. I was sort of loafing for the whole ride and had a stiff wind out of the sw. At the end I wasn't really tired, could have probably done it again if I had someone egging me on.
> http://connect.garmin.com/activity/33536102
> 
> I've gotten dropped from the peloton in every rr I've ever done and finished like 28/41 starters in my first circuit race a couple of weeks ago. I had a similar mediocre finish in a crit (avg 23.7mph, w/ avg hr 187 over a lousy ten miles) two weeks later.
> 
> believe all these people when they say it depends on the day, the course, and who shows up to race. I was looking for the same kind of comparison when I started. it doesn't mean a lot.



Got it...I really just need to enter a Cat5 race and see how I do. That seems to be the best measure for my current ability.


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## Peanya

In comparison, I'm slower than most. I typically average mid 16's to lower 17's on flat ground. It always seems windy either coming or going when I ride. At least that's what my cycle computer says when I'm done.


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## Sonomasnap

A few thinks. 

1, I love riding/racing and everything about the sport and my experience in the sport.
2. You can watch all the Giro's and Tours you want but until you race in a peloton, breaks, attacks, etc... you have no idea how you will do.
3. You will get dropped.
4. You will barely hang on.
5. If you don't crash you will certainly have many close calls especially in Cat5.
6. You will question road racing.

7. Most important of all, hopefully you will love it, stay with it and eventually become a Cat3, Cat2 or maybe even a Cat1.


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## rideorglide

Oh dear, I'm a lot slower average than that. The only Cat they have for me is kitty cat, I think.


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## rydbyk

Sonomasnap said:


> A few thinks.
> 
> 1, I love riding/racing and everything about the sport and my experience in the sport.
> 2. You can watch all the Giro's and Tours you want but until you race in a peloton, breaks, attacks, etc... you have no idea how you will do.
> 3. You will get dropped.
> 4. You will barely hang on.
> 5. If you don't crash you will certainly have many close calls especially in Cat5.
> 6. You will question road racing.
> 
> 7. Most important of all, hopefully you will love it, stay with it and eventually become a Cat3, Cat2 or maybe even a Cat1.




Agreed....for the most part What do you mean my #6?


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## minicoopal

just sign up...


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## MisterC

I'm still in cat 5 and I average about 21 mph over 40 miles and 20.xx over 60 solo on the rolling hills that are the greater baltimore suburbs and I haven't won a race in the 5 that I have done. (In maryland, at least, you HAVE to do 10 races to get out of the 5s) Racing is a whle 'nother world. I have had crashes happen within a few feet of me in 3 of the 5 the races I have done and one of them happened off my back wheel.

Races, especially cat5 and up through the pros, get spread out all over the place. My first crit I assumed that since I was pretty fit and was racing in the 5s, that i could just go off the front and hold off the group for 30 minutes, hell, (sarcasm warning) I can sprint for 30 minutes. Wrong. Dead wrong.

My recommendation is to go race, but don't try and win, at least at first. Most crashes seem to happen from over zealous noobies trying to get into positions that just arent there. One of the great things about racing is that you will learn so much so fast, but try to make it at other peoples expense.

I seem to be sliding off topic.

18mph is pretty average for 50 solo where I live, but you would keep up with the guys I ride with fine. After all, most of us are pretty average anyway.


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## JustTooBig

OP: you almost make it sound like you can (or should, or want to) race against some Cat? racers simply because you're "just as fast as they are". But .... MisterC made a point that (maybe) no one else had; being "equivalent" to a Cat 4 or Cat 3 is completely irrelevent since the only class you can race in now is Cat5. After 10 (mass start) races as a Cat5, you will be elegible to upgrade to a Cat4. Then you can set your sights on meeting the criteria to upgrade again to a Cat3. And so on ..... It's a process of "paying dues" -- and at the same time, LEARNING a helluva lot -- to move up in racing categories. 

How your present speed stacks up against Cat?? doesn't matter a whit if the only ones you can actually get on the road with are Cat5's. 

The bazillion variables that can effect avg speed probably make the question irrelevent anyway....


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## rydbyk

JustTooBig said:


> OP: you almost make it sound like you can (or should, or want to) race against some Cat? racers simply because you're "just as fast as they are". But .... MisterC made a point that (maybe) no one else had; being "equivalent" to a Cat 4 or Cat 3 is completely irrelevent since the only class you can race in now is Cat5. After 10 (mass start) races as a Cat5, you will be elegible to upgrade to a Cat4. Then you can set your sights on meeting the criteria to upgrade again to a Cat3. And so on ..... It's a process of "paying dues" -- and at the same time, LEARNING a helluva lot -- to move up in racing categories.
> 
> How your present speed stacks up against Cat?? doesn't matter a whit if the only ones you can actually get on the road with are Cat5's.
> 
> The bazillion variables that can effect avg speed probably make the question irrelevent anyway....



I am a competitive person overall... Yep, I need to just sign up and see... You are correct sir! A lot of the dynamics that happen in road racing do not even exist in mtn biking... It seems like a whole new ball game. I am starting to see why SOME roadies are such snobs...haha...


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## Hank Stamper

Sonomasnap said:


> Dude if you want to race Cat3? That is not how it works. You will get dropped your first Cat5 race. You will barely hang on for awhile after that. If you don't quit you will do 10 races and get your Cat4 upgrade. If you are in SoCal you will probably not upgrade to Cat3 for at least 2 seasons if ever. In the meantime expect to crash at least once, maybe break a collarbone, get smoked in many races, question why you do this crazy sport and then figure out you have to ride 250+ miles a week all year long, do intervals, hill repeats, lose weight and learn tactics and strategy on the bike. That is IF you want to race Cat3. :mad2:


If that's a sacrastic parody, nice job.

other wise, whoa....relax killer. yeah it's a tough sport but it's still pedaling a bike.
you make it sound like only navy seals should even consider a cat 5 race. whatever.


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## olapequena

I just gotta ask, and maybe this is my own ignorance but... 160bpm average for a 2hr solo ride? Yikes. 

What's your resting and max hr?


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## j__h

rydbyk said:


> Got it...I really just need to enter a Cat5 race and see how I do. That seems to be the best measure for my current ability.


Yeah, definitely, but do several to see where you fit. Depending on the day, you could just have a crappy day and blow up/bonk for no reason. Happened to me on my first race. I cramped up and got dropped not that far in and we were going slower then my normal tues. & thurs rides back then.


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## MR_GRUMPY

If you are not already doing road events, you will start as a Cat 5.

Pin a number on and tell us how you do.

As a Cat 5, you will ride at speed between 20 and 30 mph (or more)

MTN bike racing and road racing are whole different animals. MTN bike racing is more like Time Trialing.


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## rydbyk

olapequena said:


> I just gotta ask, and maybe this is my own ignorance but... 160bpm average for a 2hr solo ride? Yikes.
> 
> What's your resting and max hr?



What are you implying? I have done 2 hr. mtb races, for example, where my bpm avg was MUCH higher.. In other words, I could avg. a bit higher mph on that particular road ride if I layed it all out there for sure! If I can keep an avg bpm is 170+ for 2 hours on mtb, certainly I can do it on road too..

BTW...yes, this is very painful...gotta dig deep......or train harder..ha. Actually, it "never gets easier, just faster".


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## ridenfish39

olapequena said:


> I just gotta ask, and maybe this is my own ignorance but... 160bpm average for a 2hr solo ride? Yikes.
> 
> What's your resting and max hr?


Been higher in mtb races for the same amount of time.


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## muscleendurance

olapequena said:


> I just gotta ask, and maybe this is my own ignorance but... 160bpm average for a 2hr solo ride? Yikes.


to trained individuals this is nothing, some of my 7 hour races I will average about 80-82% [164-166bpm] for the whole thing, a nd thats with a few 30 minute descents at 120-130 and below :thumbsup: but Im young, an older person 50-60 averaging that is something totally different.


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## T-Doc

The point is you cannot extrapolate a 50 mile solo effort to road racing...it's apples to oranges. It's not the average...its all the surging, recovery, tactics, bike handling, etc. Racing fitness is much different than 50 mile TT type of training. You really need to ride a practice race with a group. As far as a 50 TT, I think 18 mph average would be on the low side of Cat 4/5, unless there were hills involved. This is of course is just a guess since there are no Cat 4/5 50m TTs


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## Damitletsride!

As a fellow mountain bike racer, i would say you would have no problem racing road with those average speeds. The only thing i found hard being a lightweight climber was the pure power needed when going down a long road with a slight decline, which would result in me sometimes getting dropped on the DOWNHILLS. 
The only thing you need to look out for is some of the roadies with zero bike handling skills that can take you out on the corners, they don't know about real biking like us :thumbsup: 

Like others have said just try it, its totally different to mtb where you are all on your own, sometimes if you're lucky you can just get pulled along in the bunch for the whole race. I havn't done a road race for a long time though. 

And of course, Cadel Evans was an mtb world champ... and guess who won the Giro stage last week when the roads were covered in mud and grime?? :yesnod:, enough said.

Good luck.


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## rydbyk

Damitletsride! said:


> As a fellow mountain bike racer, i would say you would have no problem racing road with those average speeds. The only thing i found hard being a lightweight climber was the pure power needed when going down a long road with a slight decline, which would result in me sometimes getting dropped on the DOWNHILLS.
> The only thing you need to look out for is some of the roadies with zero bike handling skills that can take you out on the corners, they don't know about real biking like us :thumbsup:
> 
> Like others have said just try it, its totally different to mtb where you are all on your own, sometimes if you're lucky you can just get pulled along in the bunch for the whole race. I havn't done a road race for a long time though.
> 
> And of course, Cadel Evans was an mtb world champ... and guess who won the Giro stage last week when the roads were covered in mud and grime?? :yesnod:, enough said.
> 
> Good luck.



Do you think mountain biking will give me an advantage over roadies who have no mtb. background?


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## Damitletsride!

It depends what your personal strengths and weaknesses are i suppose, but you will more than likely want to naturally corner faster than them, but you can't unless you want to plow into someone of course. I know a few mtb'ers that race road and they are the type of riders that do really well on mtb courses with short sharp climbs, power riders. But it should give you a definite advantage over a rider that has never raced before on road or mtb.


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## Argentius

*I ride*

about 50 miles every day commuting, and average about 16-17 mph, if that's any help.

It seems like a lotta that souper-commuters I see on the MUT out there, like to go a lot faster than that...


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## Fixed

*no comparison*



T-Doc said:


> The point is you cannot extrapolate a 50 mile solo effort to road racing...it's apples to oranges. It's not the average...its all the surging, recovery, tactics, bike handling, etc. Racing fitness is much different than 50 mile TT type of training. You really need to ride a practice race with a group. As far as a 50 TT, I think 18 mph average would be on the low side of Cat 4/5, unless there were hills involved. This is of course is just a guess since there are no Cat 4/5 50m TTs


There very little comparison between road racing and solo (time trialing), and of course, the conditions matter a lot.

Here are some rough examples. I have done 10 mile time trials at 26 mph, and 100 mile time trials at 22.4 mph. At the same time, I have a very, very hard time hanging in a Masters Cat 4 road race when it hits big hills. My "diesel" mode is much stronger than my anaerobic mode, probably because that is the way I train. I've been in 70 mile road races that averaged 20 mph, but had sections where I was redlined to the point of blowing up, throwing up, and then off the back. On the other hand, in a relatively flat road race, I can contend for the sprint and be in the top 10. My training has always been weak for the 5-10 minute extreme climbing efforts, which are the breaking point in many road races.

So, having a high average speed can't hurt, there is very little chance that that alone will be indicative of your chances in a road race.


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## Sonomasnap

Extremely well said. :thumbsup:


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## Buckeye Jim

I rode my age today, 55, 15.6 avg. I also climbed to the higest point in the county, I live at close to the lowest point.


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## redlizard

Buckeye Jim said:


> I rode my age today, 55, 15.6 avg. I also climbed to the higest point in the county, I live at close to the lowest point.



You live next door to Floyd Landis? :yikes:


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