# Enough With The Climbers... Professional Descents!



## Dajianshan (Jul 15, 2007)

During the Giro the commentators kept anticipating Nibali might make up some time on Contador on the descents. 

What makes a professional a much better "descent specialist" over another. They are all pros dealing with gravity. Is it the equipment or Is it the handling skills or are they simply propelled faster by the weight of their stones?

I remember Nibali's 2010 descents. Cancellara has an amazing TdF descent a while back. What sets them apart over other riders?


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## erj549 (Jul 26, 2008)

Dajianshan said:


> During the Giro the commentators kept anticipating Nibali might make up some time on Contador on the descents.
> 
> What makes a professional a much better "descent specialist" over another. They are all pros dealing with gravity. Is it the equipment or Is it the handling skills or are they simply propelled faster by the weight of their stones?
> 
> I remember Nibali's 2010 descents. Cancellara has an amazing TdF descent a while back. What sets them apart over other riders?


You know that part of your brain that tells you not to do something dangerous because you'll probably die? I think good descenders lack that part of their brain, or at least it's abnormally small.


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## Andrea138 (Mar 10, 2008)

Dajianshan said:


> ...or are they simply propelled faster by the weight of their stones?


Yes..


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## moonmoth (Nov 8, 2008)

Savoldelli: the last decent descender.

I think you have to start young, much like the downhill skiers do, in order to have the guts to take those big life-threatening risk.


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## Dajianshan (Jul 15, 2007)

You can't have children to think about either.


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## stevesbike (Jun 3, 2002)

you don't have to be big to be a good descender - watch the chicken negotiate these curves


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## pretender (Sep 18, 2007)

fear of losing > fear of crashing


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## pretender (Sep 18, 2007)




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## Dajianshan (Jul 15, 2007)

But his stones are huge!


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## RUFUSPHOTO (Oct 14, 2010)

I am a incredibly better descender than I am a climber after coming from 10 years as a professional downhill MTB'er. I absolutely love taking sharp turns at speed. 

It is skill and the mentality that makes you not think about the consequences of crashing.


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## 55x11 (Apr 24, 2006)

stevesbike said:


> you don't have to be big to be a good descender - watch the chicken negotiate these curves


I would not necessarily use Michael Rasmussen as the example of a skillful bike handler.


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## Keski (Sep 25, 2004)

Red Bull did a downhill paved road race in 2005 in Cali. It was called the Red Bull Road Rage. 

Pro road racers and mountain bikers turned out. It was won by a mountain biker on a road bike. Myles Rockwell I believe it was. He was the 2000 UCI downhill world champ.

https://autobus.cyclingnews.com/road.php?id=road/2005/nov05/redbull_roadrage05












Looks like they still do it over in Europe.......


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## moonmoth (Nov 8, 2008)

55x11 said:


> I would not necessarily use Michael Rasmussen as the example of a skillful bike handler.


Perhaps thinking of MR's TdF 2005 TT? Well, to defend him just a little, that was on a TT bike.


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## dougydee (Feb 15, 2005)

Dajianshan said:


> You can't have children to think about either.


Correct, Jenson Button said he wouldn't have kids while driving F1 as there is always the thought of them somewhere in your head.


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## jawest32 (May 17, 2011)

Along with the other things discussed, watch the lines Nibali takes relative to the others (where on the road he is at corner entry, apex & exit) next time you get the chance. From there, its a lot easier to build on the "stones", since they're not fighting with the road.


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## Dajianshan (Jul 15, 2007)

Right. I was looking at that. I was just thinking as professionals a guy shouldn't be that much better at it that they might be expected to make such massive gains on their rivals on a descent. They train for this stuff.


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## pacificaslim (Sep 10, 2008)

Unfortunately the descents are over so quick and never make up for the time lost on the way up! And the cameramen aren't as able to get good footage at downhill speed than they are at 10mph on the way up, ha!


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## 55x11 (Apr 24, 2006)

pacificaslim said:


> Unfortunately the descents are over so quick and never make up for the time lost on the way up! And the cameramen aren't as able to get good footage at downhill speed than they are at 10mph on the way up, ha!


Savoldelli's 2004 win (I think) came largely thanks to his descending skills.


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## OnTheRivet (Sep 3, 2004)

The best descenders in the bunch are probably guys you never see as they are sprinters or guys in the auto bus and the camera never shows them. Most climbers are retards on the bike which is why if somebody is a good bike handler like Nibali they stand out.


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## PhatTalc (Jul 21, 2004)

OnTheRivet said:


> The best descenders in the bunch are probably guys you never see as they are sprinters or guys in the auto bus and the camera never shows them. Most climbers are retards on the bike which is why if somebody is a good bike handler like Nibali they stand out.


This is true. I have heard that Thor Hushovd is considered the best descender by his peers.


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## den bakker (Nov 13, 2004)

moonmoth said:


> Perhaps thinking of MR's TdF 2005 TT? Well, to defend him just a little, that was on a TT bike.


at least he did not crash uphill


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## kbwh (May 28, 2010)

PhatTalc said:


> I have heard that Thor Hushovd is considered the best descender by his peers.


That's how it goes when you get to ride down hills with Sean Yates when you're a kid.


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## ZoSoSwiM (Mar 7, 2008)

How many of us here have actually bombed down a descent like the ones they do? A small percentage of us I'm sure. I consider myself a pretty good descender but I'm going 20mph slower on shallower hill.. I'm sure it would be a little different going faster into a tight corner.


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## nayr497 (Nov 8, 2008)

Nothing like referring to people as "retards"...

And nothing like calling a pro cyclist a "retard"...

Very classy.


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## Beethoven (Jul 28, 2005)

Tell me if this video of Cancellara is not the most exhilarating cycling video EVER. Of course the music helps.....


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## Oasisbill (Jan 15, 2011)

Beethoven said:


> Tell me if this video of Cancellara is not the most exhilarating cycling video EVER. Of course the music helps.....


+1000, Especially when he catches the bunch.


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## gh1 (Jun 7, 2008)

erj549 said:


> You know that part of your brain that tells you not to do something dangerous because you'll probably die? I think good descenders lack that part of their brain, or at least it's abnormally small.


funny stuff, true, but funny


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## gh1 (Jun 7, 2008)

jawest32 said:


> Along with the other things discussed, watch the lines Nibali takes relative to the others (where on the road he is at corner entry, apex & exit) next time you get the chance. From there, its a lot easier to build on the "stones", since they're not fighting with the road.


Your dead on. His lines are almost letter perfect. I was wondering if he has ridden motorcycles most of his life as well. He uses all the road and seems to always hit the apex perfectly, carries so much speed out of the corner. Its a thing of beauty to watch.


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## Creakyknees (Sep 21, 2003)

55x11 said:


> Savoldelli's 2004 win (I think) came largely thanks to Buryneel handing an envelope full of cash to another team.


fify.


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## AndesMountains (Jun 7, 2008)

In my humble opinion, and after years of descending many, many very long descents in the southern Andes, I must say that what makes a great descender is a mix of “cojones” and training. In other words, the training part would give you an edge and boost your confidence level when descending. While the cojones part, you either have it or not. 

Saludos,


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## Sablotny (Aug 15, 2002)

yeah, bravo Pretender for putting that up!


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## cool_casey (Oct 27, 2005)

I read some where that Eddy Merckx said you have to have 100% trust in your mechanic.


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## Gnarly 928 (Nov 19, 2005)

I think they should have a few 'Downhill Finish' stages during the year. Then we'd see who was a good descender. The races that are always done usually have a flat run in to the finish, if they aren't for the climbers. So the descenders get away but the pack can get back during the flat. How bout a finish right on the mountain, at the bottom? That would show something. Remember, racing a bike you do go down hill as often as you climb. Rewarding good downhill speed seems like it might be worth at least one try...

Darwin's theory would soon sort out the guys with big balls and little skill..


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## Kram (Jan 28, 2004)

I don't remember watching that. That was effing brilliant.


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## Creakyknees (Sep 21, 2003)

Gnarly 928 said:


> I think they should have a few 'Downhill Finish' stages during the year. Then we'd see who was a good descender. The races that are always done usually have a flat run in to the finish, if they aren't for the climbers. So the descenders get away but the pack can get back during the flat. How bout a finish right on the mountain, at the bottom? That would show something. Remember, racing a bike you do go down hill as often as you climb. Rewarding good downhill speed seems like it might be worth at least one try...
> 
> Darwin's theory would soon sort out the guys with big balls and little skill..


Um, you are aware that Wouter Weylandt died after crashing on a descent, less than a month ago. Right?


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## wibly wobly (Apr 23, 2009)

this is just plain nutz


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## T0mi (Mar 2, 2011)

Creakyknees said:


> Um, you are aware that Wouter Weylandt died after crashing on a descent, less than a month ago. Right?


This is out of context, Wouter Weylandt crashed because of inattention error, not because he tried to take that descent flat out.


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## T0mi (Mar 2, 2011)

Gnarly 928 said:


> I think they should have a few 'Downhill Finish' stages during the year. Then we'd see who was a good descender. The races that are always done usually have a flat run in to the finish, if they aren't for the climbers. So the descenders get away but the pack can get back during the flat. How bout a finish right on the mountain, at the bottom? That would show something. Remember, racing a bike you do go down hill as often as you climb. Rewarding good downhill speed seems like it might be worth at least one try...
> 
> Darwin's theory would soon sort out the guys with big balls and little skill..


There are already downhill finish stages. A lot of mountain stages à TDF finish in a city in the nearby valley/plain after the last climb.


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## OnTheRivet (Sep 3, 2004)

nayr497 said:


> Nothing like referring to people as "retards"...
> 
> And nothing like calling a pro cyclist a "retard"...
> 
> Very classy.


Oh yea, the "I'm easily offended so I must be intelligent" police are here. The word retard is slang for retarded which refers to cognitive abilities. In this case it was purposely used out of context for a laugh. Your inability to distinguish humor from serious discussion may show, oh the cruel irony, that you are in fact retarded. So I say to you, lighten up retard...used in proper context I might add.


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## Haridic (Jun 9, 2008)

Haha, I sense a flame war  Let's hope that's the end to that bit of banter.


Anyway, amazing descending skills on the last video :O. Truth be told I wouldn't be surprised if he died on a descent given his recklessness haha


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## Gnarly 928 (Nov 19, 2005)

Creakyknees said:


> Um, you are aware that Wouter Weylandt died after crashing on a descent, less than a month ago. Right?


Yes, I'm aware of that.


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## BAi9302010 (Mar 7, 2002)

did a couple of Sean Yates searches and came up with this...

http://yatesie-theforeignlegion.blogspot.com/2011/02/sean-yates-on-descending.html



> Question: You have been known as a quick descender. I read that when you were with 7-11 you were clocked at about 112 KPH down the Col du Tourmalet. Would you tell me a story where your descending abilities changed the complexion of a race?
> 
> Sean: One race comes to mind - and that was the Dauphiné Libéré in 1990. I think we started the stage in Gap. …we went up this big main road and then we turned right down this descent, and we went straight down the valley road that leads toward the L'Alpe Du Huez. And it was pouring rain and Andy Hampsten was in good shape. And suddenly I had the bright idea…ok I am going to string this out a bit. And I told Dag Otto and Ron Kiefel and Andy…ok I have about 2-3 kilometers before we hit it… we just went. Then we turned right and it was quite a dangerous descent. It was so strung out down that climb that when we hit the other side I started going backwards. Guys from Colombia after only about 6 kilometers - they were going by me and I went as hard as I could up the climb and I got to the top...I think I was about five minutes down.
> 
> ...


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## BAi9302010 (Mar 7, 2002)

moonmoth said:


> Savoldelli: the last decent descender.
> 
> I think you have to start young, much like the downhill skiers do, in order to have the guts to take those big life-threatening risk.


In case you missed the Giro last year, David Arroyo might have something to say about that :wink:

Garzelli has always been known as one of the better descenders in the peloton. If I recall correctly, Sean Yates holds the record for the fastest speed ever recorded in the Tour de France, from one of the editions in the 80's. Does anyone else remember this?


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## Dajianshan (Jul 15, 2007)

I imagine a lot also has to do with getting out in the open without other riders to slow you down. The team can slow down contenders while their captain gets clear and shoots down the mountain.


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## ultimobici (Jul 16, 2005)

erj549 said:


> You know that part of your brain that tells you not to do something dangerous because you'll probably die? I think good descenders lack that part of their brain, or at least it's abnormally small.


More a case of being able to "switch off" or disconnect that part of the brain.

The truly amazing feats are not now but those of the descenders in the days before dual-pivot calipers, machined braking surfaces & other advances. One thing that has not changed one iota is the laws of physics that govern speeds on descents. 

We all know about Savoldelli's feats in the Giro, but Sean Yates was dropping motorbikes in the 80's on an alloy Vitus!!


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## kjdhawkhill (Jan 29, 2011)

how does he scrub speed going into the switchback at the bottom? It almost looks like he has a coaster brake, is his heel dragging on the tire? A feat of bike handling either way.


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## BAi9302010 (Mar 7, 2002)

kjdhawkhill said:


> how does he scrub speed going into the switchback at the bottom? It almost looks like he has a coaster brake, is his heel dragging on the tire? A feat of bike handling either way.


He's heel dragging the whole way down. Looks a lot like tightrope walking.


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## rep (Nov 30, 2005)

Cunego gave a nice descent in yesterdays stage of the Tour de Suisse.


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## zsir (Nov 14, 2008)

rep said:


> Cunego gave a nice descent in yesterdays stage of the Tour de Suisse.


Sagan's was better he caught Cunego twice on that descent.


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## Ripton (Apr 21, 2011)

zsir said:


> Sagan's was better he caught Cunego twice on that descent.


Wasn't the first time his team mate who caught Cunego before falling off?
Either way, stunning descending and great camera work.


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## jayteepee (Jun 11, 2011)

In my book, Nibali without question. 





jawest32 said:


> Along with the other things discussed, watch the lines Nibali takes relative to the others (where on the road he is at corner entry, apex & exit) next time you get the chance. From there, its a lot easier to build on the "stones", since they're not fighting with the road.


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## pretender (Sep 18, 2007)




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## bruce_wayne (Apr 30, 2010)

Heard Sean Kelly doing commentary one time suggest a down-hill TT. Riders would have chains removed from drivetrain.


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