# best overall tubular tires



## z ken (Dec 30, 2006)

now i finally brought my dream wheels zipp 404 tubular, i would like some helps deciding which tubualr tires/brand is the best. i would like the tire to be puncture-free and the lightest possible weights. money is not an issue here. your input is greatly appreciated 

enjoy and ride strong-my motto.


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## gibson00 (Aug 7, 2006)

z ken said:


> now i finally brought my dream wheels zipp 404 tubular, i would like some helps deciding which tubualr tires/brand is the best. i would like the tire to be puncture-free and the lightest possible weights. money is not an issue here. your input is greatly appreciated
> 
> enjoy and ride strong-my motto.


easy - Conti Competitions. Get them from probike kit for about $55 each (when ordering more than one) with free shipping.


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## z ken (Dec 30, 2006)

gibson: why conti's conpetition?? you've used them before?? please describe the ride quality. thanks.

enjoy and ride strong-my motto


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## MaestroXC (Sep 15, 2005)

Veloflex Carbons.


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## gibson00 (Aug 7, 2006)

z ken said:


> gibson: why conti's conpetition?? you've used them before?? please describe the ride quality. thanks.
> 
> enjoy and ride strong-my motto


I've used both sprinters and competitions for many years. I think that there may be other tubulars out there that may roll a little smoother, but contis are the best IMHO when it comes to puncture resistance. And they do roll pretty damn smooth, can take a lot of pressure too if you like that. And on top of that, they can be found much cheaper than veloflex tires (even if they were the same price, I'd still choose the conti comps).

Cheers


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## z ken (Dec 30, 2006)

gibson: thanks a bunch. which one you like better, sprinter or comp?? it'll greatly appreciated.


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## spookyload (Jan 30, 2004)

I would steer clear of the sprinters and be careful to put them in the same sentence as the comps. I have had three sprinters out of the box that rolled like a square tire. Meaning they had a noticable thump in the ride. They were on training wheels so it was a matter of riding them into oblivioin and replacing them. I had bought a case, and out of the case there were three bad tires. Not good percentages, but they were training tires. If you get a good sprinter, it is a great training tire. 

I now ride veloflex pave tires with vredestein latex tubes. The ride is almost identical to the competition. I don't know if that helps, but that is the best comparison I can make. The Sprinters rode more like the Pave tires with a standard butyl tube.


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## gibson00 (Aug 7, 2006)

As spooky mentioned, the sprinters can be spotty in terms of quality. I have had a couple that had a bump near the valve. You shouldn't have the problem with the comps. I think of the sprinters more as a training tire. 
The comps have 5 layers of material, whereas the sprinters have 3. But now that you can get comps for 50-60, I just use them. I can get a full Summer on one set for training. Typically rotating them halfway through the Summer (front onto the back, etc). And then I use that same set through the winter on the indoor trainer, and then throw a new set on in April/May.


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## Clevor (Sep 8, 2005)

Z ken, so you finally pulled the trigger on the 404s, huh? I thought you bought them from the LBS with Sprinters?

From the research I've done, Conti Comps get good marks but they can be very expensive. The pros ride on them and the 2007 version has a Vectran ply. I bought a pair of Pro versions from Sigma UK, destined for my Bora Ultras. All Comps are hand-made one-by-one in Germany.

I wouldn't use 'em for training tires or my everyday ride though. Tufo makes a tubular with sealant I believe, but some people still flat. Check the reviews on this site; the Tufos (sans sealant) get pretty good marks. I would also check the WeightWeenies site for feedback on tubulars.


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## Guest (Feb 11, 2007)

The best tubulars if money is no object are clearly the Dugast or Vittoria Silks.

They are both handmade and ride like being a cloud.

Next below those would be the Dugast or Vittoria handmade cotton tires.

Below that, Veloflex Record or Carbon. These ride very softly and are really quite nice. I find I have to pump these up every time I grab the bike though.

Below this level, Vittoria Corsa KX is a nice tire as is the Tufo HICC lite or the Elite Lite , 120 are quite nice tires.


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## gibson00 (Aug 7, 2006)

toomanybikes said:


> The best tubulars if money is no object are clearly the Dugast or Vittoria Silks.
> 
> They are both handmade and ride like being a cloud.
> 
> ...


If you buy 2 or more, the price is $53 US (and drops a few dollars the more you buy) and shipping is free to US:
http://www.probikekit.com/display.php?code=Y1111


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## rruff (Feb 28, 2006)

z ken said:


> i would like the tire to be puncture-free and the lightest possible weights. money is not an issue here. your input is greatly appreciated


The rolling resistance and the puncture resistance should be your primary concerns. Unfortunately you can't optimize both of these in the same tire. So you need to set some priority... puncture resistance or speed? Veloflex Record tubulars are fast but pretty fragile. Maybe the silks... I don't have data on those. 

Don't forget the aero factor. The Zipp 404s should be good with a standard 22-23mm tire, but don't go bigger than that.


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## spookyload (Jan 30, 2004)

Are Vittoria's still hand made? I guess I figured when they moved the factory to the far east it was inevitable they would switch to machine made. Veloflex is made in what used to be the Vittoria factory in Italy if I am not mistaken.

I just had a look at Vittoria's website and they don't in fact make silk tires anymore, and the only handmade thing they still do is called hand wrapped corespun casings. Not that this means the tires a more inferior, but don't let the reputation of older classic setta tires fool you into buying the new ones.


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## Guest (Feb 12, 2007)

spookyload said:


> Are Vittoria's still hand made? I guess I figured when they moved the factory to the far east it was inevitable they would switch to machine made. Veloflex is made in what used to be the Vittoria factory in Italy if I am not mistaken.
> 
> I just had a look at Vittoria's website and they don't in fact make silk tires anymore, and the only handmade thing they still do is called hand wrapped corespun casings. Not that this means the tires a more inferior, but don't let the reputation of older classic setta tires fool you into buying the new ones.


Vittoria setas are still made, they are handmade and are not on the web-site.

They are also not cheap.


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## Clevor (Sep 8, 2005)

spookyload said:


> Are Vittoria's still hand made? I guess I figured when they moved the factory to the far east it was inevitable they would switch to machine made. Veloflex is made in what used to be the Vittoria factory in Italy if I am not mistaken.
> 
> I just had a look at Vittoria's website and they don't in fact make silk tires anymore, and the only handmade thing they still do is called hand wrapped corespun casings. Not that this means the tires a more inferior, but don't let the reputation of older classic setta tires fool you into buying the new ones.


One vendor selling Dugasts claims it is the only tire that is still 'hand-made', so I don't know what is the definition of that, if Conti claims their Comps are.

My Veloflex Pave clinchers are hand-made in Italy (so it says on the sidewall). I guess maybe the rubber carcass, as there is no tube.


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## spookyload (Jan 30, 2004)

toomanybikes said:


> Vittoria setas are still made, they are handmade and are not on the web-site.
> 
> They are also not cheap.


The last silk tire they made was the Vittoria Corsa Seta CX. Those tires aren't made anymore. Dugast is the only tire still using silk. Clement used to also, but they don't anymore either.


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## z ken (Dec 30, 2006)

clevor: yeah i finally bought myself a sizzling 404 but you know my # 1 wheels is and will always be campy's Boras but unfortunately i can't see myself spending $ 3k for two wheels eventhough i've got 6 figures. heheh yeah i also bought two pair of conti's sprinter just for " testing " the water and it costed me $ 100 ( not bad of deal. the dealer gave me some discount ) hopefully tomorrow i'll get 404 back and ready for some test ride. i guess i'll ride conti's sprinter for a while and see where it takes me. i also heard great thing about vittoria from the dealer ( i guess alot of his customers preferred them?? ) and it was sold out. i know Tufo elite jet weights in at featering-light 160 grams. for sure # 1 priority is puncture-free b/c it doesn't matter you've 404 or boras, if you got flats, you go nowhere. 2nd i like the tires to be fast. basically i want a fast, puncture-free and light weights tire. i got cash so money isn't issue. yeah i'll spend $ 200 a tire if necesary.


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## Guest (Feb 12, 2007)

spookyload said:


> The last silk tire they made was the Vittoria Corsa Seta CX. Those tires aren't made anymore. Dugast is the only tire still using silk. Clement used to also, but they don't anymore either.


Read it again, it still says the same thing


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## spookyload (Jan 30, 2004)

z ken said:


> clevor: yeah i finally bought myself a sizzling 404 but you know my # 1 wheels is and will always be campy's Boras but unfortunately i can't see myself spending $ 3k for two wheels eventhough i've got 6 figures. heheh yeah i also bought two pair of conti's sprinter just for " testing " the water and it costed me $ 100 ( not bad of deal. the dealer gave me some discount ) hopefully tomorrow i'll get 404 back and ready for some test ride. i guess i'll ride conti's sprinter for a while and see where it takes me. i also heard great thing about vittoria from the dealer ( i guess alot of his customers preferred them?? ) and it was sold out. i know Tufo elite jet weights in at featering-light 160 grams. for sure # 1 priority is puncture-free b/c it doesn't matter you've 404 or boras, if you got flats, you go nowhere. 2nd i like the tires to be fast. basically i want a fast, puncture-free and light weights tire. i got cash so money isn't issue. yeah i'll spend $ 200 a tire if necesary.


First of all, nothing will be flat free. It is just a matter of how much is will hurt when you hear it hissing. Tubulars are pretty easy to repair once you figure it out. A simple flat can be repaird in under twenty minutes. If money is no object, then look no further than Dugast silk tires. It is the best race tire you will find. If you can find some of the mythological Vittoria silk tires toomanybikes keeps mentioning (that can't be found on the internet anywhere), then they would be pretty sweet too. If those two hurt your budget too much, then try the conti comps. A resonable priced tire that is darn fast. I rode the Tufo elite roads one season and wasn't super impressed with the feel of the tire.


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## bigbill (Feb 15, 2005)

spookyload said:


> First of all, nothing will be flat free. It is just a matter of how much is will hurt when you hear it hissing. Tubulars are pretty easy to repair once you figure it out. A simple flat can be repaird in under twenty minutes. If money is no object, then look no further than Dugast silk tires. It is the best race tire you will find. If you can find some of the mythological Vittoria silk tires toomanybikes keeps mentioning (that can't be found on the internet anywhere), then they would be pretty sweet too. If those two hurt your budget too much, then try the conti comps. A resonable priced tire that is darn fast. I rode the Tufo elite roads one season and wasn't super impressed with the feel of the tire.



I rode a time trial this morning on my carbon wheelset with Vittoria CX tubulars. The road was chip and seal with the smoothness of a cheesegrater. My warmup was on clinchers and the difference on the course between the two tires was amazing. I have also been impressed with the flat resistance of the Vittorias both tubular and clincher. The tubies on the carbon wheels have many small cuts and I have even pulled a small piece of glass out with no flats. I was a conti sprinter guy for a long time, but it just seemed like I was getting lumpy tires more often so I switched to Vittoria. I have never tried a competition on the road. I have ridden them on the track, but the track surface makes a big difference with any tire.


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## z ken (Dec 30, 2006)

Dugast silk tire?? never heard of it before. where can i buy them and how much are they running for?? can't be more than $ 200 a tire or can it?? sounded like conti's competition is one fine tubulars tire and everyone agree sprinter is more " low level " tire. by the way how's Dugast interm of puncture proof?? i know there's no such thing as 100% puncture free but atleast i want the tire to be very very durable.


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## spookyload (Jan 30, 2004)

I think the Dugast Tubulars are running about $139 each right now for the silk strada. Rumor has it that Lance Armstong used the Dugast silk tires with Hutchinson labes. That is likely the case for most of the pro peloton you see with tan sidwalls. Dugast claim to fame is truely seen in the cyclocross world. Just about every top level cross racer has Dugast tubulars on their bikes. Here is a link to a US supplier:

http://www.worldclasscycles.com/dugast_strada_silk.htm


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## z ken (Dec 30, 2006)

Dugast kind of looks lame, isn't it?? hard to believe Dugast cotton costs more than $ 200. man is it REALLY that good?? well if mr. armstrong use it, it must be that good, if the rumor is true.


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## SmellMyGas (Sep 30, 2004)

*Dugast*

Silk cased Andre Dugast tubulars are simply the best rolling tire made. You must ride a pair to feel what we are all talking about. I assure you there is absolutely nothing "lame" about a Dugast tubular. Take a look and then try them for yourself. http://www.a-dugast.com


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## g-Bike (Jan 25, 2006)

Are tufo's not a good option? the 215's seem pretty light and nice.


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## z ken (Dec 30, 2006)

i guess i'll give Dugast and its silk tire a shot since everyone are praising them. $ 300 for " testing " tires?? why not since i got the some money. heheh thanks everyone for the inputs. i'll report the ride quality once i bought Dugast in about 2 weeks.


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## Clevor (Sep 8, 2005)

So far nobody has dwelled much on the puncture resistance of silk Dugasts. I would think it's not that good. You don't get comfort for nothing.

While it's true the pros might lose a significant amount of time (to them) with punctures, they just change wheels from the support car.

The Caisse E'parge team probably uses Dugasts. I was wondering why they run those ugly orange sidewall tires which don't match the Boras and the colors on the bike.


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## z ken (Dec 30, 2006)

clevor: you too agree that Dugast looks " lame ". i've also checked out the review here in RBR about Tufo and so far almost everyone is saying great thing about them. Vittoria is also got some great reviews. part of me was thinking do the NEW Zipp tire ( the one with the dimple?? ) actually a fast and less puncture one?? it would definitely match my 404. 

any thought on zipp tire or other tire you guy have used in the past there were less to puncture, light weight and fast. once again money isn't an issue here.


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## Clevor (Sep 8, 2005)

z ken said:


> clevor: you too agree that Dugast looks " lame ".


I don't think they look lame if you got a tan or orange bike . I call the sidewall color: gum rubber brown. Certainly unique. The 'Dugast' logo looks like it was put on with an ink stamp. Just the tire for those Plain Jane Lightweights!

Here's more background info on high end tubulars and Dugasts; apparently the Conti Sprinters are not so bad anymore:

http://www.peterwhitecycles.com/Tubulars.asp


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## rocco (Apr 30, 2005)

z ken said:


> Dugast kind of looks lame, isn't it?



LOL...

-- Armstrong is far from the only pro to use Dugast tubulars.


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## rocco (Apr 30, 2005)

g-Bike said:


> Are tufo's not a good option? the 215's seem pretty light and nice.



They're a long long way from the "best overall tubular tires".


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## rocco (Apr 30, 2005)

Clevor said:


> So far nobody has dwelled much on the puncture resistance of silk Dugasts. I would think it's not that good. You don't get comfort for nothing.
> 
> While it's true the pros might lose a significant amount of time (to them) with punctures, they just change wheels from the support car.
> 
> The Caisse E'parge team probably uses Dugasts. I was wondering why they run those ugly orange sidewall tires which don't match the Boras and the colors on the bike.



That's why Dugast tubulars are _the_ top choice of pros (Tom Boonen, Van Petegem and Museeuw to name a few) who want to win Paris Roubaix.


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## z ken (Dec 30, 2006)

clevor: you know i ride Trek Madone/404 so there's no orange in sight ( i do like O.J, the juice, not actor/football player/murder one ) yeah i believe conti's sprinter are great tire for " novel " tubulars user, kind of like me. i'll continue to look/search around and see where it takes me. Tufo do get alot of great reviews so i might give it a shot after wearing out my new sprinter or until i found a better tire.


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## wasfast (Feb 3, 2004)

z ken said:


> i've also checked out the review here in RBR about Tufo and so far almost everyone is saying great thing about them.
> 
> Vittoria is also got some great reviews. part of me was thinking do the NEW Zipp tire ( the one with the dimple?? ) actually a fast and less puncture one?? it would definitely match my 404.
> 
> any thought on zipp tire or other tire you guy have used in the past there were less to puncture, light weight and fast. once again money isn't an issue here.


Rolling resistance tests from a couple years back say the Tufo's are "slow" comparitively.

The Zipp tires are rebadged Vittoria's so I wouldn't expect miracles there.


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## rocco (Apr 30, 2005)

z ken said:


> clevor: you too agree that Dugast looks " lame ". i've also checked out the review here in RBR about Tufo and so far almost everyone is saying great thing about them. Vittoria is also got some great reviews. part of me was thinking do the NEW Zipp tire ( the one with the dimple?? ) actually a fast and less puncture one?? it would definitely match my 404.
> 
> any thought on zipp tire or other tire you guy have used in the past there were less to puncture, light weight and fast. once again money isn't an issue here.



Comparing Tufo tubulars to Dugast tubulars is like compairing Andre or J Roget to Clicquot Champagne Grande Dame Rose '95 or Dom Perignon Rose '96.


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## rocco (Apr 30, 2005)

z ken said:


> clevor: you know i ride Trek Madone/404 so there's no orange in sight ( i do like O.J, the juice, not actor/football player/murder one ) yeah i believe conti's sprinter are great tire for " novel " tubulars user, kind of like me. i'll continue to look/search around and see where it takes me. Tufo do get alot of great reviews so i might give it a shot after wearing out my new sprinter or until i found a better tire.



I've used and Tufo 215s and I use Conti Sprinters both for training/everyday riding and there's no doubt that the Sprinters are better in every category. You can even hear the difference between how they run/roll on the road.


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## gibson00 (Aug 7, 2006)

I tried a set of Tufo 215's on Zipp 404's. The rear punctured after 50km. The front lasted longer, but I wasn't impressed with the feel.
Even if money is no object....stop thinking about it and just buy a set of Conti Competitions. They were good enough for T-Mobile over the years. They are a superb tire, IMHO.


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## z ken (Dec 30, 2006)

Gibson: i know Conti's comp is one of the top notch tubbies but i want THE BEST. so as of right now everyone is saying Dugast is the best tubulars. right?? how's Vittoria??


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## gibson00 (Aug 7, 2006)

z ken said:


> Gibson: i know Conti's comp is one of the top notch tubbies but i want THE BEST. so as of right now everyone is saying Dugast is the best tubulars. right?? how's Vittoria??


Dugast......................as someone else said, it doesn't matter how smooth your tires roll, you ain't going anywhere with a flat. Conti Comps don't flat (well......extremely rare).
I wouldn't bother with Vittorias. A few friends have them and don't like them. Plus they have a layer of latex or something on the base tape that needs to be scraped off, otherwise they don't glue well...

Spend as much as you want. But you won't do better than a conti competition imho


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## z ken (Dec 30, 2006)

now it comes down to conti's comp vs. dugast. let's get it on!!


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## allons-y (Nov 15, 2006)

if you want the best of the best, have cash to burn, etc etc, then you are looking at a dugast. 

yes, it has terrible puncture protection, and probably other flaws

but dugasts are "the" tubular tire. a silk casing dugast...it just doesnt get better


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## rocco (Apr 30, 2005)

z ken said:


> now it comes down to conti's comp vs. dugast. let's get it on!!



They're both great tires. For lack of a better anology off of the top of my head I'd say Conti Comps are to Dugast what the Porsche 911 turbo is to the Enzo Ferrari or Ferrari FXX.


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## rocco (Apr 30, 2005)

allons-y said:


> if you want the best of the best, have cash to burn, etc etc, then you are looking at a dugast.
> 
> yes, it has terrible puncture protection, and probably other flaws
> 
> but dugasts are "the" tubular tire. a silk casing dugast...it just doesnt get better


Where is this stuff about Dugast tubulars having terrible puncture protection? Dugast makes the most desirable tire for Paris Roubaix and World Cup cyclocross.


http://www.dailypeloton.com/displayarticle.asp?pk=5387

http://www.serotta.com/forum/showthread.php?t=104 

Read what jerk says ...that guy knows his stuff.

http://weightweenies.starbike.com/p...=results&sid=46aa787844a984d9a04e322e1383f62c


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## allons-y (Nov 15, 2006)

rocco said:


> Where is this stuff about Dugast tubulars having terrible puncture protection? Dugast makes the most desirable tire for Paris Roubaix and World Cup cyclocross.
> 
> 
> http://www.dailypeloton.com/displayarticle.asp?pk=5387
> ...



rocco....ive read ww enough (and at times posted) and yes, the jerk knows his stuff.

the puncture protection is a thing many complain about on dugasts. i misphrased what i wanted to say, which is that it is a complaint of some, that is often unsubstantiated or overplayed or really doesnt exist. 

sry. 

they make amazing cx tires....i got the oppertunity to poke around on some for a few minutes during the fall (on my bike, no less)....it was amazing. 

the 911/enzo analogy is a good one i think. i was thinking of making a car analogy, but i dont know cars that well. mine was going to be conti = top of the line bmw, dugast=maybach


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## rocco (Apr 30, 2005)

allons-y said:


> mine was going to be conti = top of the line bmw, dugast=maybach



Maybach came to my mind too but the BMW/Maybach analogy might be better if we were talking about tires for touring.


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## Clevor (Sep 8, 2005)

z ken said:


> now it comes down to conti's comp vs. dugast. let's get it on!!


Z ken, not to worry about flats with the Dugasts. Just carry a spare :lol:.


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## z ken (Dec 30, 2006)

i check alot of major bike shops and they don't carry Dugast. may be too expensive for a regular joe/weekend warrior like myself?? i'm leaning toward Conti's Competion as most stores carrry them for now anyway and see where comp. would take me. less than 24 hours away from " test ride " of my new 404. have to go work and leave early and travel an hour for the wheels ( about 20 miles away from my work and another 30 miles for home )


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## steel515 (Sep 6, 2004)

spookyload, do you have any problems with your latex tubes? Like sticking to the tire? Also where do do you get yours?


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## spookyload (Jan 30, 2004)

steel515 said:


> spookyload, do you have any problems with your latex tubes? Like sticking to the tire? Also where do do you get yours?


The only place I have found the Vredestein latex is reparto course. They are about a dollar more than the Michelin Latex, but 30g lighter. As for sticking to the sidewall, yeah a little, but it comes right out when you pull it off and doesn't leave anything behind. I have been told by lots of people not to put talc on the tube though. Pressure loss over night is about the same as the Michelins too. About 20psi over night.


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## bopApocalypse (Aug 30, 2006)

z ken said:


> i check alot of major bike shops and they don't carry Dugast. may be too expensive for a regular joe/weekend warrior like myself??


Cost is one part of the equation.

The other major part is the fact that they're handmade, in a relatively small shop. This means (in addition to the 'ghetto' look) small production numbers. A recent interview suggests ~400 tires/week. Check in the middle of 'cross season, you'll always see folks scrambling to see who has dugasts in stock...


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## ampastoral (Oct 3, 2005)

is there any real reason why veloflex carbons aren't still in the discussion? i believe their RR numbers are among the best for tubulars. they're sticky...what else do you need?


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## j_gantzer (Jan 30, 2006)

+1 Dugast


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## z ken (Dec 30, 2006)

404 riding report: finally after waiting all weekend + Monday+ most of Tuesday, i got my 404 back with conti' sprinter. i don't have alot of time since i got off work late but still able to ride for 15 minutes. my first reaction was, " man this baby really get up to speed FAST and hold them nicely " ( smile ) next i noticed the ride was silky smooth ( smile ) conti tire are bit rough but o.k for a " beginner " like me. i expect to change to different tire in the summer, may be Dugast or conti's competiton. i'll report how 404 fare vs. 19 miles/4200 elevation/8% this thursday night. so far after 15 minutes of " test ride " 404 is everything as i've expected. [ 2 thumbs up ] even the braking was smooth.

my new 404 vs. my ex. bontrager race lite is day and night. the looks is not even close.


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## Clevor (Sep 8, 2005)

z ken said:


> 404 riding report: finally after waiting all weekend + Monday+ most of Tuesday, i got my 404 back with conti' sprinter. My new 404 vs. my ex. bontrager race lite is day and night. the looks is not even close.


Z ken, what color is your Trek? Blue? Don't match the red/white/black Zipps all that much do they?

Yeah, it's nice to have the LBS install dem tubulars. You will have fun installing a new tire on your own, which I did last night.

I read a couple of different sources on installing a new tire, and yeah right, all that stuff works (like stretching it by standing on it and pulling). I did that, but still took me three tries before I came up with my own method: straddle the wheel and stand on the tire with my big toe to hold it at the edge of the wheel, while I work each side of the stubborn end over the rim. This business about holding the wheel horizontal against your chest and forcing the stubborn portion over the rim works if you are a gorilla.

Also some instructions recommend installing the tire on a dummy rim first to stretch. I mean who has a spare carbon tubular rim lying around? So I had to practice on my precious Bora Ultra front. Got sidewall gum all over the gloss on the rim (I'm running Conti Comps).

Anyways it's on dry, and inflated to 100 psi to stretch out. Like clinchers, I'm sure it's going to be easier to get on from now on.

I get around 240 grams on the 700x22 Comps. Carcass is on straight and true without any fiddling, but it is on dry. I only bought one tire for practice. If I ever ride this dream C50 , I'll put on Dugasts. Might as well optimize the tubular experience :thumbsup:.

I notice the pebble texture of the Conti Comp tread goes really well with the twill weave of the Boras . . . and a black/black tire looks best too.


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## z ken (Dec 30, 2006)

clevor: yeah i got midnight blue Madone 5.2 SL (06 ) and surprisingly it did look inbelievable with my new red/black 404. i got alot of praises today when i go to work ( some of them still amazed i threw in almost $ 2K for wheels/tires. guess they don't " understand " our need for speed . heheh ) before work, i went out and extended my " test ride "-25 miles with mixed roads and i clocked in just over an hour ( smile ) and i didn't feel tire or sored ( may be the new wheels gave me that extra " mental "boost ) about gluing tubulars stuffs, i don't even want to try it. i'll let my " amigo " do it ( hey, someone HAVE to support our neighbor countrymen. sorry i don't mean Canada. hahah )

you've Colnago C-50 AND Campy Boras ( for a while now ) and still no " test ride " yet?? oh my go!! that's like marrying Cindy Crawford AND Pamela Anderson and still a " virgin ". hahah

p.s: since my " amigo " owed me $ 100, i switched cane creek s2 to chris king headset. one word: WOW!! never thought a merely headset will make THAT much of different. got the red one to match my 404. tomorrow i'm planning to tackle mt. hamiton and its 19 miles/4200feet/8% unless of course my boss call me to go to work ( my job is base on wait-n-see )


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## Clevor (Sep 8, 2005)

z ken said:


> you've Colnago C-50 AND Campy Boras ( for a while now ) and still no " test ride " yet?? oh my go!! that's like marrying Cindy Crawford AND Pamela Anderson and still a " virgin ". hahah


Uhh, you forgot the Dugasts :wink:.

A Chris King is going on the bike too, but something special. The RAM2 bar won't be available till March or later. Modding a Kooka Rasta crank is a wild card (gotta find where it is in my closet).

Coming from an automotive background, I don't know what's the big deal with the Chris King, but it has been called the finest component ever designed for a bike.

Anyways, glad to hear you are enjoying the wheels!


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## z ken (Dec 30, 2006)

Chris King= the finest component ever created?? hmm could be. while i went to " checkout " 404 last week, i saw Rams and yes it's a great look stem/handlebar ( intergrated ) but i do believe, imho, FSA's Plasmas is the best look stem/handlebar up to date ( cheaper and lighter than Rams ) and may be the greatest component ever created?? for sure gotta be up there.

Clevor: when are you going to " test ride " Cindy and Pamela?? hahah about Dugast ( pronounce " doug-gas "?? ) and its hype. i'll give it a shot down on the road but for now i'm " ok " with Sprinter. may be i might try Competion next, then may be Tufo. i'm still young and there's no rush. since you don't ' REALLY " want to ride Boras, how about selling it to me?? how's $ 1700 sound assuming your Boras are in a great condition??

P.S: now i know how great tubulars feel, i'll NEVER going back to clincher again.


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## z ken (Dec 30, 2006)

today i supposed to tackle Mt. Hamilton and its 19miles/4200feet/8% but came down big-time with an allegy this morning [ cough/sniff ] so i'll be off bike for the whole weekend ( bummer!! ) all my friends know i'm a big-time allegy to flowers/pollen. so it's time for my medication and nap time ( just past 11 PM here in California ) zzz


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## steel515 (Sep 6, 2004)

what about conti podium? is this a short life tire?


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## homebrew (Oct 28, 2004)

Overall dugast but very hard to get in the US, Conti comps are very durable but don't handle nearly as well IMO Rolling resistance is only OK.
fastest, veloflex record (TT) or veloflex carbon (road). They wear fast however
Vitorias handle very well but seem to get more cuts in the tread than any tire I have seen.
I would suggest the Contis until summer and then treat yourself to some veloflex carbons just so you can feel the speed. If you find someone that has Dugast in stock please let me know. FWIW I use tufos as a spare. they are very light to carry and fold up small but they suck in terms of rolling resistance (see tour mags test on rolling resistance)


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## z ken (Dec 30, 2006)

homebrew: of all the responds yours is by far the best one, due respect to all other inputs.


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## Dave_Stohler (Jan 22, 2004)

Aside from the stratospherically expensive (and also incredibly good) Dugasts and Vittoria silks, I would have to give 3 different answers:

1) Vittoria Corsas: For ride, grip, and traditionality

2) Conti Competitions: For performance

3) Tufos (can't remember the model): For roundness and absolute lowest weight.


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## z ken (Dec 30, 2006)

OUCH!! it happened and it scared the " F " out of me. about 30 minutes while riding home from work. i saw a green light about 200 meters away and i tried to beat the red light but as i was about to kick in full gear. CRACKED!! a violent and disburbing sound!! my 404 tubular front wheel cracked ( partially at braking area ) as i run over a pot hole. i've been riding the same road for the last 3 years and i remember there's no pot hole or any construction project going on. of course i didn't make it pass the green light ( last thing on my mind ) i stopped right away and checked the front wheel. my first initial thought was i just broke a spoke (s ). after tapping on the rime, i noticed a small piece of carbon had chipped off. i got on the bike ( pass the light ) and heard a " funny " sound as the rime was rubbing the brakepads. i stopped and ripped a broken piece of carbon off and continue home. eventhough the sound was gone, but i was real scared of getting up to 20+ mph. the last couple miles home was by the far the slowest ride i ever had. so as of right now my 404 is still serviceable but eventually i'll need to repair or buy another one. tomorrow i'm planning to go over the " pot hole " area and check the problem. hopefully it's not some dork digging a hole for no reason.


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## rruff (Feb 28, 2006)

z ken said:


> right now my 404 is still serviceable but eventually i'll need to repair or buy another one. tomorrow i'm planning to go over the " pot hole " area and check the problem. hopefully it's not some dork digging a hole for no reason.


Did you actually bottom out the tire? Zipp may cover that, because there have been a lot of 404s that cracked.


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## spookyload (Jan 30, 2004)

homebrew said:


> Overall dugast but very hard to get in the US, Conti comps are very durable but don't handle nearly as well IMO Rolling resistance is only OK.
> fastest, veloflex record (TT) or veloflex carbon (road). They wear fast however
> Vitorias handle very well but seem to get more cuts in the tread than any tire I have seen.
> I would suggest the Contis until summer and then treat yourself to some veloflex carbons just so you can feel the speed. If you find someone that has Dugast in stock please let me know. FWIW I use tufos as a spare. they are very light to carry and fold up small but they suck in terms of rolling resistance (see tour mags test on rolling resistance)


Worldclasscycles.com has Dugast in stock. They have the cotton and silk versions.


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## z ken (Dec 30, 2006)

rruff: unfortunately this's MY fault so i'll either send it back to Zipp to repair or buy a new one. my orginally dream idea was to have 303 in the front and 404 in the rear ( that way i got aero + quick handling ) so may be my " dream " might come true.?? ( ouch!! ) no i didn't buttom out, it's just merely a small pot hole and the result a small piece of carbon had chipped off ( braking area ) i could still run the wheel and the braking is ok. so tomorrow i'll ask my " amigo " call Zipp about the repairing cost. if i decided not to repair, 303 ( front only ) will costs me $ 800 ( tax/labor/tire ) i'm also very lucky i didn't crack my most precious, Madone frame. whew!!


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## z ken (Dec 30, 2006)

RIP my front 404 ( sob/tear ) it's the very few time in my life i actually cry ( the day i came in US, graduation day, while i was at the hospital ( last summer's car accident ) when i saw TV program featuring a song, " mother, you're the greatest " as my mother was holding my hand and watching with me..sob ) beside that i'm a very strong minded person ( infact i didn't even cry even my grandma passed away. shamed on me ) so i decided i'm going to buy 303 ( front ) as my " originally " dream wheelset ( with 404 rear ) so tonight please say a pray for my 404...i'm going to miss you buddy, 404 [ low tune ] i'm very passionate about my bike. i'll take it personally if someone made fun of my bike. so far none since my bike/components are name brands.

earlier today i went out and ride for a while, BANG!! the whole front wheel just split in half just like a cracking egg. fortunately i'm ridding very slowly ( i was trying to see if it would hold up for a long run ) so tomorrow i'm going to order myself a 303 front and Tufo elite Jet tubular tire. saving of 217 grams ( 404 ( 577gms )+ conti's sprinter ( 270 ) equal 847gms. to 303 ( 470 gms ) +Tufo Elite jet ( 160gms ) =630 )


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## gibson00 (Aug 7, 2006)

Why a 303?
Just my personal observation - the 303 gets some of the worst reviews of all the lightweight/aero wheels on the market. They are known for their lack of stiffness. As well, they are not that much lighter than the 404, which is more durable and much more aero.

If I were buying another pair of zipps (I used to have 404's), I would buy the 404 clydesdale rim in the normal (24/20) spoke count


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## z ken (Dec 30, 2006)

well, eventhough 404 have been nothing but a joy to ride but the front wheel was bit rough while cornering ( may be due to conti's sprinter?? could be ) so i might switch to 303 for less aero but more quick handling/cornering?? i don't know for sure but apparently front 404 isn't my " ideal " riding style. i like to ride through a corner, not braking. anyway i'll see if there's any 303 left from my " amigo " shop. thanks very much for your inputs. i appreciated it!!


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## spookyload (Jan 30, 2004)

I agree with the above poster. You said you broke it coming home from work. If I were using Zipp tubies as a commuter wheel, it would definately be a 404 clydesdale. Sounds like you had a run of bad luck on ride. I can relate. I destroyed a chain five hours into a six hour MTB race yesterday. New chain, just bad luck. Sometimes the bike gods don't smile on us. I did get a nice five mile walk out of the woods. Got passed by about fifty of the people I had worked hard to pass and stay ahead of all day.


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## z ken (Dec 30, 2006)

i only use 404 as my weekend/work only ( 3 days ). on the weekdays i use my other bike. yup i totally got bad luck this time. last night i went back and check the " pot hole " area and apparently it was caused by a heavy rain from last week. right now i'm real sad but i'll be back again. i was planning to go to Vegas in 3 weeks ( mid March ) now i've to reconsider it. bike or Vegas??


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## heliskyr (Feb 21, 2005)

ampastoral said:


> is there any real reason why veloflex carbons aren't still in the discussion? i believe their RR numbers are among the best for tubulars. they're sticky...what else do you need?


I'll 2nd that!


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## Clevor (Sep 8, 2005)

z ken said:


> RIP my front 404 ( sob/tear ) earlier today i went out and ride for a while, BANG!! the whole front wheel just split in half just like a cracking egg. fortunately i'm ridding very slowly ( i was trying to see if it would hold up for a long run ) so tomorrow i'm going to order myself a 303 front and Tufo elite Jet tubular tire. saving of 217 grams ( 404 ( 577gms )+ conti's sprinter ( 270 ) equal 847gms. to 303 ( 470 gms ) +Tufo Elite jet ( 160gms ) =630 )


Z ken, why don't you look into Zipp's "liberal No Fault/Crash Replacement program for up to 5 years from date of purchase". I would say hitting a pothole qualifies as a mild 'crash' . IMO, it's unacceptable that an $$$ carbon tubular wheelset would fall apart because of that. If you buy a 303 front wheel, you do realize with the amount of money you've spent, you could have gotten those Bora Ultras . This is not to say they would have held up to that pothole.

If the 404s broke, doesn't make sense to go with an even lighter Zipp wheelset .

But look on the good side: you are darn lucky you didn't get hurt. Now you know why a lot of pros don't like to use carbon fiber bars and stems.


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## z ken (Dec 30, 2006)

clevor: i called the store where i brought the 404 and they said they can order front 404 as crash replacement ( rim only between $ 300 to $ 400+ $ 40 labor ) they'll let me know for sure tomorrow. i'll make the decision afterward. part of accident ( pot hole ) was purely bad luck caused by heavy rain couple weeks ago. now they ( city ) have fit it so i should've no problem riding my 404 again, assuming it won't cost me more than $ 500 for crash replacement.

yup i wanted to own Boras but can't see myself spending almost $ 3k, now i'll end up spending $ 2100 to $ 2300 ( $1700 for 404 + crash replacement rim + labor ) more importantly i didn't fall on my " behind " and my Madone frame is alright ( whew!! ) i'll use this week to really consider what my options are. 404 front, 303 front or go back to clincher?? err forget option C. so as right now my madone/404 is on DL ( sob ) part of me was thinking buying a cheapest front road wheel for a while before buying 404 or 303. tomorrow night i'll report my decision ( 11 PM, pacific time ) i was planning to attend the 3rd stage finish in downtown San Jose but opted for work ( someone do have to pay for my wheel ) going to miss Disco.


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## gibson00 (Aug 7, 2006)

z ken said:


> well, eventhough 404 have been nothing but a joy to ride but the front wheel was bit rough while cornering ( may be due to conti's sprinter?? could be ) so i might switch to 303 for less aero but more quick handling/cornering?? i don't know for sure but apparently front 404 isn't my " ideal " riding style. i like to ride through a corner, not braking. anyway i'll see if there's any 303 left from my " amigo " shop. thanks very much for your inputs. i appreciated it!!


Seriously, I really believe the 303 will be WORSE for cornering. The weight difference between the two wheels is negligable (sp?) for that purpose, and the 303 is -much- less stiff, making it a worse cornering rim, not to mention much less durable than a 404.

Have you considered moving away from Zipps?

I was in a shop for a couple of hours two nights ago, and the owner had a pair of new dimpled 404's on the wall. He said he would never ride them after the amount of failures he's seen at the races. He said the older ones, before the dimples, were stronger, but now they are pushing the envelope a bit more, and they are breaking on a regular basis.

Why not look at Mavic Carbones? Yeah, they are a little heavier, but once up to speed, they rolllllllllll. They were good enough for the pros for years...
Cheers


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## z ken (Dec 30, 2006)

Gibson: nothing against Mavic/French jokes ( heheh ) but i just love the way Zipp look. i just called Zipp in Indiana and they said they'll replace my front 404 rim for $ 435 ( $ 350 for the rim +$60 re-laced+$ 25 shipping ) they ( zipp ) were very nice ( some claimed they've a bad rep. ) so i'm going to send in my front 404 and hopefully i'll get it back in 2 weeks. meanwhile i'll be riding my $ 60 Pacific mountain bike from Target ( best $ 60 i've ever spent on )...sadly


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## z ken (Dec 30, 2006)

UPDATE!! Zipp decided to charge me NOTHING after inspecting the front 404. they said they'll give me new rim and for an ice on the cake they'll even shipp to me for FREE ( Zipp for president!! ) it should be arriving next Tuesday. i'll reglueing the tire ( i'm not going to use Conti's sprinter. instead i'll useTofu Elite jet ( 160 gms ) man i'm still shock right now as i don't have to pay even a penny. also i am thinking switching from Zipp front/rear hubs to other hubs. eventhough Zipp hubs are " average " i want the best. so either Campy record or DT Swiss 190 ( $ 600 for one set?? it made from ceramic. hopefully it comes in 18/24 holes) my " amigo " called around yesterday and he couln't find any Dugast dealers here in the U.S. may be i've to order online. anyway i'll ride Tufo/sprinter for a while. changing hubs is next top priority. whew Zipp won't chagre me a penny!! i've been this excited since..err last week when i bought 404.


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## gibson00 (Aug 7, 2006)

z ken said:


> UPDATE!! Zipp decided to charge me NOTHING after inspecting the front 404. they said they'll give me new rim and for an ice on the cake they'll even shipp to me for FREE ( Zipp for president!! ) it should be arriving next Tuesday. i'll reglueing the tire ( i'm not going to use Conti's sprinter. instead i'll useTofu Elite jet ( 160 gms ) man i'm still shock right now as i don't have to pay even a penny. also i am thinking switching from Zipp front/rear hubs to other hubs. eventhough Zipp hubs are " average " i want the best. so either Campy record or DT Swiss 190 ( $ 600 for one set?? it made from ceramic. hopefully it comes in 18/24 holes) my " amigo " called around yesterday and he couln't find any Dugast dealers here in the U.S. may be i've to order online. anyway i'll ride Tufo/sprinter for a while. changing hubs is next top priority. whew Zipp won't chagre me a penny!! i've been this excited since..err last week when i bought 404.


So you are going with a super light tire that will have horrible durability/puncture resistance?? You are over-thinking the weight of this stuff, IMHO. I'm not saying go with heavy garbage or anything, but put a decent tire on them, one that won't have you riding on your rims. If not a Conti Competition, then get veloflex.


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## z ken (Dec 30, 2006)

i'll use Tufo on the front wheel only. i've not buying it. just think about it. also i'm thinking about getting Dugast silk tire ( $ 300 a pair ) i've couple days to really think about what direction i want to go. may be i might go with competiton which runs $ 60-70 a tire. today i'm real happy not only Zipp will replace my wheel free of charge but seeing Levi won the TT by 18 seconds?? real impressive.


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## z ken (Dec 30, 2006)

Gibson: i hope you're right about Conti's competiton. i just order today and should be arriving on Thursday ( i paid for overnight delivery ) i'll report the ride saturday night. some sad news: some one actually stole my $ 60 Wal-Mart mountain bike earlier today so i just brought another one ( exactly the same one for $ 60 )...i was really tempted to order Dugast silk but can't reach worldclasscycles.com's operator ( their loss ) also was considering Tufo Elite Jet ( front wheel only at 160 gms ) but they didn't have all black tire. Veloflex record sound real great at 180 gms but the they wear fast and not great vs. punture. so i ended up order conti's competition 700x19 ( 190gms ) and 700x22 ( 230gms ) fast, long mileage and less flats.


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## gibson00 (Aug 7, 2006)

z ken said:


> Gibson: i hope you're right about Conti's competiton. i just order today and should be arriving on Thursday ( i paid for overnight delivery ) i'll report the ride saturday night. some sad news: some one actually stole my $ 60 Wal-Mart mountain bike earlier today so i just brought another one ( exactly the same one for $ 60 )...i was really tempted to order Dugast silk but can't reach worldclasscycles.com's operator ( their loss ) also was considering Tufo Elite Jet ( front wheel only at 160 gms ) but they didn't have all black tire. Veloflex record sound real great at 180 gms but the they wear fast and not great vs. punture. so i ended up order conti's competition 700x19 ( 190gms ) and 700x22 ( 230gms ) fast, long mileage and less flats.


I'm sure you'll be happy. Just out of interest, why did you get a 700x19?? The wider 22 will be a more comfortable ride, and suppsoedly less rolling resistance. Regardless, I think you'll like the tires!


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## z ken (Dec 30, 2006)

i like 19 mm to be in the front ( sorry i don't rotate the tire ) to give me more aerodynamic, right?? i was real close of ordering Dugast but can't reach the operator. may be i'll give Dugast a shot come later this year or next year. i'm still young. Gibson, have you try Veloflex record ( 180gms )??


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## Spunout (Aug 12, 2002)

FWIW, I don't think anyone paying retail price uses Dugasts. How many people do you see lined up with them? Training on 180g Dugasts? Cat 4/5? Yeesh.

Agree on the Conti, Veloflex, Vittoria, etc. I'll comment on Schwalbe Ultremo tubulars later, but the clinchers look very nice (for a vulcanized casing).


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## gibson00 (Aug 7, 2006)

z ken said:


> i like 19 mm to be in the front ( sorry i don't rotate the tire ) to give me more aerodynamic, right?? i was real close of ordering Dugast but can't reach the operator. may be i'll give Dugast a shot come later this year or next year. i'm still young. Gibson, have you try Veloflex record ( 180gms )??


The aerodynamics of a 19mm tire will make no difference. I might put one on a disc wheel to better match the profile, but for road riding, I wouldn't bother. Its not gonna hurt anything, you just won't have as smooth a ride as the 22mm.
I haven't tried the veloflex record. I can get the conti Comps. from probikekit for about $50 US each shipped. That is about $30 less than Veloflex. Plus, I wouldn't trust the durability and puncture resistance of any tubular that weighs 180.......just my opinion.

And stop worrying about Dugasts!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Its like someone paying $500 for a bottle of wine. Chances are it'll taste the same as the $25 bottle, but the prestige............
Don't waste your money. Besides, I'd -still- choose the conti comps over the Dugasts regardless of price, because I know I won't flat in a race!!


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## Spunout (Aug 12, 2002)

gibson00 said:


> Its like someone paying $500 for a bottle of wine. Chances are it'll taste the same as the $25 bottle,


...or the consumer won't be able to tell the difference...


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## Clevor (Sep 8, 2005)

gibson00 said:


> The aerodynamics of a 19mm tire will make no difference. I might put one on a disc wheel to better match the profile, but for road riding, I wouldn't bother.  Its not gonna hurt anything, you just won't have as smooth a ride as the 22mm.
> I haven't tried the veloflex record. I can get the conti Comps. from probikekit for about $50 US each shipped. That is about $30 less than Veloflex. Plus, I wouldn't trust the durability and puncture resistance of any tubular that weighs 180.......just my opinion.
> 
> And stop worrying about Dugasts!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Its like someone paying $500 for a bottle of wine. Chances are it'll taste the same as the $25 bottle, but the prestige............
> Don't waste your money. Besides, I'd -still- choose the conti comps over the Dugasts regardless of price, because I know I won't flat in a race!!


I agree. Some people use the 19 mm because they think it has a thinner profile. But on my Bora Ultras, I notice that on a 22 mm tire, the round circumference of the tire exactly matches the width of the 50 mm rim behind it. This provides a smooth flow of air to aid in aerodynamics.

On racing cranks, they used to use a knife edge on the counterweights to reduce the drag while spinning in the crankcase at 8000-12000 rpm. They eventually found the best aerodynamic profile is an airplane wing design, with a bulbous leading edge tapering to the rear - exactly how my Boras look with a 22 mm tire :thumbsup:.


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## z ken (Dec 30, 2006)

clevor: have you test ride your Boras, yet?? meanwhile yesterday someone stole my bike ( no not my madone/404. thanks goddness. whew!! thanks to my front 404 hasn't return from Zipp factory. tomorrow or friday for sure, well atleast that's what Zipp people said ) it's my $ 60 mountain bike from Wal-Mart. so last night i went to Wal-Mart and bought the exact same one for $ 60 and guess what?? today after work, couple hours ago, someone stole it AGAIN!! and this time i even bought extra locks ( double locks ) i work at the shopping mall so there're always alot of people passing by. so after work i had to take the bus to my " amigo " bike shop and bought THREE extra-tough bike locks for my madone/404. for sure i can't park my bike in the same spot. tomorrow i'm planning to find a " secret " hideout my precious. so for the next couple days i'll be taking city bus to work but my co-worker will give me a ride home. believe it or not i've NEVER driven a car more than 2 blocks, anti-car guy.


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## z ken (Dec 30, 2006)

my front 404 finally ariived on friday afternoon and i asked my sister to go to my " amigo " bike shop and installed conti's competion on both wheels ( the rear wheel used to have sprinter, which was " ok " ) after 2 days of waiting and working OT, i finally got it back this evening. i went out and rode for a while. man, WOW!! never though between sprinter and competiton could be THAT much of different. for sure much much more smoother and noticebly faster ( may be just my imagination or excitment?? ) smoother?? for sure b/c i can feel the " lump " in sprinter. i'm also planning to buy Tufo Elite Jet, veloflex record and yes Dugast silk down on the road. as of right now i'm very please with conti's competiton.


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## gatordoug (Apr 28, 2006)

There are some dugasts on eBay right now, guy says they're new and about $75 per tire.
no involvement, just a 'heads up'


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## gatordoug (Apr 28, 2006)

Sorry, BIN is about $100/tire.
Still a lot cheaper than retail.


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## gatordoug (Apr 28, 2006)

I'm in a similar situation (sort of), looking at tons of sew-ups as I just got a set of Hed 3's, my first tubulars. Mine will be a race-only and race-simulation wheelset, and price is definitely a consideration. I've narrowed my options to Tufo s3's and the Conti Competitions, each for about $50/tire. Add to that the tape/glue debate, tire sealant debate, etc, etc


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## Clevor (Sep 8, 2005)

Just a comment on the Conti Competitions: all the advertising (even on the box) says they are what the pros ride, but that is a bit specious. I bought one retail Conti Comp and a pair of supposely Pro versions. The Pro versions seem a bit different. The label says Pro Limited Rain, so I dunno if this is a rain tire. There is 'Continental' in big yellow lettering on the tire (twice on one sidewall). The carcass seems thicker (haven't weighed them yet, tis a shame I admit!). The overall build quality is better as the base tape is on neater and there is no excess latex glue on the sidewalls. But are these really Pro tires?

Well I was just reading a back issue of VeloNews; an article on the Sauvier Duval team and yup, the tubes on their rims look exactly like these so apparently they are the real deal. It's not a big deal unless you have a thing for Pro stuff, and I doubt I will be riding much on these tires, that's why I paid $95 each for them (just as I doubt I will be riding much on the Bora Ultras that will be shod with them rrr. They are mainly for pics of my dream C50 once finished. For everyday riding I'll just use Conti Comps - due to the availability.

It's taking me so long to build this bike, I might order me some Dugasts now. They might even be ready in two years .


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## z ken (Dec 30, 2006)

pro limited rain conti's comp?? never heard of it before. i know conti's is coming out with the GP 4000 tubular tire. so far i'm very happy with my comp, which is real fast and smooth ( though i should've order a pair of 22mm instead of 19mm and 22mm. 19 mm seem a little unstable once over 20+ MPH ) so next time i'll make sure i order 22mm. Veloflex record is my next to-try list and then Dugast silk.

clevor: two more years for you to test ride your prdcious Boras?? how could live with yourself seeing Boras laying on the floor and not riding it?? hahah if one day you decide to sell it, please give me a ring.


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## Clevor (Sep 8, 2005)

z ken said:


> pro limited rain conti's comp?? never heard of it before. i know conti's is coming out with the GP 4000 tubular tire. so far i'm very happy with my comp, which is real fast and smooth ( though i should've order a pair of 22mm instead of 19mm and 22mm. 19 mm seem a little unstable once over 20+ MPH ) so next time i'll make sure i order 22mm. Veloflex record is my next to-try list and then Dugast silk.
> 
> clevor: two more years for you to test ride your prdcious Boras?? how could live with yourself seeing Boras laying on the floor and not riding it?? hahah if one day you decide to sell it, please give me a ring.


The Conti Pros are not for sale to the public; SigmaSports UK secured a tub of them on a limited availability basis. It could be these are a defective batch (why else otherwise?). I think the T-Mobile team uses the retail Conti Comps for training rides. They are a German-owned team so no surprise about their persuasion for Contis.

As for the Boras, they sure look purty just sitting by themselves on the floor! What with that twill weave, monstrous decals, and luscious gloss (which Reynolds eschews in their advertising ads as pooh pooh). Things like Bora Ultras and a Cinelli RAM2 bar with a special edition paint scheme don't have to be mounted on the bike to be appreciated :yesnod:.

The more I read and research about carbon tubulars, the more I realize Campy has blazed their own path with these wheels. They don't use nipples like most wheels, but on the other hand, you have to remove the tire to true them - definitely a hassle. They do not use an offset dish. The hubs are carbon fiber and there are very few moving parts. The simple, angular contact bearings has been adopted by Shimano on their new carbon tubulars. The wheelset should be lighter, but I surmise the weight is put in the rims (in actuality, it's probably the decals and clearcoat ). I am not convinced they are more durable than other carbon tubulars out there.


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## z ken (Dec 30, 2006)

since conti pro isn't for sale to public, how do you get a hold of them?? also having Boras and not riding it even for once is like having Lamborghini in the storage room or better yet having Pam Anderson AND Cindy Crawford and still a virgin. hahah i don't think T-Mobile train on comp b/c they're a race tire. if indeed T-Mobile use comp as training, what do T-Mobile use on race day?? Dugast??


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## allons-y (Nov 15, 2006)

just to throw it out there, most pro teams train on clinchers. only because most teams supply riders with training bikes to keep at home. most of them dont have live in mechanics, and with the miles they rack up, they burn through tires. that means they have to change there own tires. which means most of them use clinchers. there was a blurb in cn a few weeks ago about some pro only having 2 spare tubes with him on a training ride and blowing his tire 3 times.....doesnt exactly happen with a tubular. Im sure there are some pro's out there who train on tubulars, and for recon rides of say, paris-roubaix, thats different. but for day to day training most pro's ride on clinchers....


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## Clevor (Sep 8, 2005)

z ken said:


> since conti pro isn't for sale to public, how do you get a hold of them?? also having Boras and not riding it even for once is like having Lamborghini in the storage room or better yet having Pam Anderson AND Cindy Crawford and still a virgin. hahah i don't think T-Mobile train on comp b/c they're a race tire. if indeed T-Mobile use comp as training, what do T-Mobile use on race day?? Dugast??


As I mentioned earlier, SigmaSports UK has a batch of Conti Comp Pros, but they are in England.

I thought I saw a pic of T-Mobile on Conti Comps but I'd imagine on race day they use the Pro Limiteds which are all yellow in the logo and lettering. Read the Conti ads; they mention the other Pro teams on their tires. Either way they ride Contis rather than French Dugasts - heh.

Also if you read that link I gave about Dugasts, I'm sure the tires are good, but they are no longer made by the master of old. Somebody bought them out and 'commercialized' production, or at least brought them to the masses. This individual is modernizing techniques, for better or for worse. I'm not sure it's even being made in France anymore (but somewhere in Europe).


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## ultimobici (Jul 16, 2005)

Clevor said:


> The more I read and research about carbon tubulars, the more I realize Campy has blazed their own path with these wheels. They don't use nipples like most wheels, but on the other hand, you have to remove the tire to true them - definitely a hassle. They do not use an offset dish. The hubs are carbon fiber and there are very few moving parts. The simple, angular contact bearings has been adopted by Shimano on their new carbon tubulars. The wheelset should be lighter, but I surmise the weight is put in the rims (in actuality, it's probably the decals and clearcoat ). I am not convinced they are more durable than other carbon tubulars out there.


They do use nipples, but recess them in the rim; hence the need to remove the tyre and use a hex key to true them. Shimano have been using angular contact bearings all along in their hubs just like Campagnolo.


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