# Clipless day 1



## Kw101 (Jul 28, 2012)

I'm on a felt z85. I've got about 60 on it since in almost 2 weeks. My wife is starting to ride so I've been limited on "me" time. I did get to take it on 2 13 mile rides and last night got in 16.5, light rain and 20+mph winds.

Anyhow, I've been putting off trying clipless so today stopped by the lbs and got a set of red speedplays and white/red pearl Izumi selects.

Got them mounted pretty easy and took a couple laps around the hood to get used to the in/out. So far so good. Seems I have a a little play in them, which I like, before I hit the point of disengagement.

Anyhow, plan to get 15miles in this afternoon. 

Ill follow up after dark.

Kirk


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## mikerp (Jul 24, 2011)

Riding on a sports field makes for good practice.
You may want to look into Product


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## Mapei (Feb 3, 2004)

Enjoy your new lease on bicycling life. To me, clipless pedals are the single biggest improvement that can be done to a bicycle.


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## Kw101 (Jul 28, 2012)

Wound up going 17 miles. First observation, pulling up w/o thinking. Second, hills are easier. Third, don't wait to the last minute to unclip.

About the only way I can compare clipless vs running shoes and nylon pedals, clipless is like having a yolk on. You don't have to worry about holding on you can just go.

If I was only a 10 mile guy I don't know if I'd speed the money on them. But I like 15+. 
When you have to fight a headwind they help for sure. Or when legs start to tire out, they help.

Hope this is useful to someone thinking about making the swap.


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## SFTifoso (Aug 17, 2011)

Standing and sitting is a lot safer with clipless, especially if your legs are feeling like spaghetti. You can stop pedaling and relax your legs completely, and your feet will not be going anywhere. Getting into aero positions for descents is easier/safer. Some people disagree, but I think they make you faster and save you a bit of energy. I can't ever imagine going back to flat pedals.


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## c_h_i_n_a_m_a_n (Mar 3, 2012)

It makes it so much easier ... Purist MTBers would disagree


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## Rollingeezer (Oct 20, 2012)

Im 60, and haven't ridden a road bike in about 35 years. Recently got a Specialized Roubiax Comp, and also bought speedplay light action, and low end specialized shoes.
I rode the first 2 weeks with flat pedals as this bike is so different , then 2 days ago I put on the speed plays and specialized shoes. I was pretty nervous at first as I've got a glass shoulder, and with age, I break easier. After practicing getting in and out of them repeatedly, they're becoming pretty natural, and I like them more with each use. Since I have 2 replaced knees, the float action in the pedals is GREAT! Knock on wood, haven't fallen yet because of them, and hope not to, but if you're torn on whether or not to try clip less, go for it....you'll love them.


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## czuber (Apr 9, 2013)

I'm looking forward to trying some out. Just dont have he 200+ to pick them up right now. Trying to get some used stuff off the bay.


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## Mdelrossi (Jun 29, 2012)

I use shimano style SPD pedals from nashbar with a pair of MTB shoes. I don't walk like a duck as much as with the look style.


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## AndrwSwitch (May 28, 2009)

c_h_i_n_a_m_a_n said:


> It makes it so much easier ... Purist MTBers would disagree


Or have a flame war, anyway. :wink5:


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## Rollingeezer (Oct 20, 2012)

You could get set up for less than 200.00. I got specialized "sport" road shoes for 90.00, and I believe you can get Speedplay chrome moly light actions for about a Hun.


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## Randy99CL (Mar 27, 2013)

Before I learned to pedal circles I used to switch to pulling up instead of pushing down when I was tired.

I'd relax my legs and focus on pulling up on the backstroke and not pushing down on the downstroke. Uses completely different muscles and probably doubled the distance I could ride before I was worn out.

All you new guys need to learn to pedal through the whole stroke; to me that's the biggest advantage of clipless.

Perfect Pedal Stroke: Cycling Training Tips | Bicycling Magazine
Perfect Pedal Strokes | Road Bike Rider


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## Kw101 (Jul 28, 2012)

Good links thanks for those.


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## thekarens (Jul 17, 2012)

Rollingeezer said:


> You could get set up for less than 200.00. I got specialized "sport" road shoes for 90.00, and I believe you can get Speedplay chrome moly light actions for about a Hun.


My partner got her clips for about $50 and her shoes were on clearance for about the same, so I agree, you don't have to spend $200.


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## jopbianchi (May 12, 2013)

You can go basic clipless for $100 or less. Amazon has Shimano 540 road pedals for $38 shipped. If you have one of their credit cards, they're doing a $15 promo credit right now... so just got mine for $23. Nashbar has their "house brand" basic and mid level road shoes on sale for around $50 routinely. I've even seen 3 hole road shoes in thrift stores for a few bucks. I decided to go with Serfas Podiums for $80 on clearance at my LBS.


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## czuber (Apr 9, 2013)

I just won a pair of *Specialized Mountain Cycling Shoes* off ebay for 41.00 I'll check out the pedals on Amazon . Thanks

I'm looking at these: Shimano PD-M520L MTB Sport Pedals with Cleats : Amazon.com : Sports & Outdoors

Look good?


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## czuber (Apr 9, 2013)

Well I read a lot of positive reviews and it looks like this is a solid entry level pedal w/cleats. Got them for 32 shipped. So I will be ready to try clipless for about 70 bucks. If I really like the clipless method I can always upgrade down the road and pass these on to my son in-law.


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## mk.ultra (May 12, 2013)

lol i just started using clipless less than a week ago, and since then I've fallen over like 3 times lol. Twice from stopping too fast and not clippin out fast enough, and once from clipping out too early and jumping off the bike while it was moving (The cleats hit the ground and slid right out from under me).

but I'm sure I'll master them soon enough. I can already tell they're helping me pedal much harder.


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## Red90 (Apr 2, 2013)

Clipless pedals are awesome... I can imagine not using them now that I'm used to them. One thing for certain, is that you will fall. It's not all that bad as the times you fall from clipless pedals is when your completely stationary, you just plop to one side and it's usually just more embarrassing than painful.

First time I fell was when some idiot driver pulled in front of me to make a right turn. I was able to just brake in time to stop, but I didn't unclip (this was my first ride with the pedals). 

Other times I fell is usually when I unclip one pedal but lean to the wrong side when I stop. Once your used to unclipping this doesn't really happen anymore.


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## SGMDWK (Jul 22, 2012)

The comparisons always seem to be between clipless and flat pedals. How about a comparison between clipless and toe clips?


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## Mapei (Feb 3, 2004)

SGMDWK said:


> The comparisons always seem to be between clipless and flat pedals. How about a comparison between clipless and toe clips?


Okay. I spent a good twenty years with toe clips & cleats before splurging on clipless pedals. 

Yes, with practice, the process of getting your foot properly in the pedal is of about equal difficulty. That's about it, though, when it comes to the quote-unquote good stuff regarding toe-clips.

If you really want your foot to stay attached to the toe-clipped pedal so that the pedal allows you to exert maximum power, you must reach down and tighten the toe clip strap while you are moving. In turn, when you need to come to a stop, you must reach down and loosen the thing. What this also means is that if, mercy forbid, the bike goes down unexpectedly, you are essentially locked to the bicycle in the same way that an overturned turtle is locked into its shell. Yes, a truly good rider would be able to stay cleated in, trackstand-style, but I never had the balance to do this confidently. If you keep the strap loose enough not to have to reach down to loosen or tighten it, you will never be able to take full advantage of being cleated in.

Another problem with toe-clips is that the damn toe-clip never fails to squeeze the top of your foot. Whether the pressure be at the toes or further back where the end of the clip lies, eventually your foot will feel the pain. Sometimes, your toes or foot will even fall asleep. With the clipless pedal, all you ever feel up top is the cushiness of that wonderful pair of shoes you've carefully selected.


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## Tri-Guy (May 25, 2013)

I think everyone will eventually "turtle". I had my experience while on a ride with a Sr. VP on a quick 25miler at lunch a few years back. We both had a good laugh. I love my speedplays and wouldn't give them up for the world, they are so forgiving on my knee. Once you get comfrotable, it just becomes second nature to clip in and out.


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## skitorski (Dec 4, 2012)

It's a little late for the OP but I was advised to practice unclipping BEFORE I acquired the cleats. So I did. Worked out pretty good too. I just rode for two weeks thinking about unclipping before every stop. With the cleats, I still fell, but those were emergency panic stops.


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## Kw101 (Jul 28, 2012)

I've added another 70 miles since the first post. Really enjoy the pedals. Not one fall, yet. Not sure if I'm more coordinated than others but it I've not had any issues.

Not sure i like the shoes though. Feet get numb after about 8-10 miles. I've reached down and loosened the straps but that doesn't seem to help to much. Any thoughts?


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## Tri-Guy (May 25, 2013)

Kw101 don't jinks yourself......I had well over 1,000 miles and did the turtle!!


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## c_h_i_n_a_m_a_n (Mar 3, 2012)

I get numbness too. But I put that down to the cold. I would tell myself to wiggle my toes as I pedal whenever I can to get some blood circulation. It has been quite cold here in the UK. Its just that I do not recall when I do not get numbness so am not able to check if warm weather makes any difference. Will definitely have to make a mental note of that this coming summer.


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## PJ352 (Dec 5, 2007)

Kw101 said:


> Not sure i like the shoes though. Feet get numb after about 8-10 miles. I've reached down and loosened the straps but that doesn't seem to help to much. Any thoughts?


Because oftentimes there are contributing factors, it can be tough to pinpoint a cause, but it would help to know specifically where and when the numbness occurred. 

For example, if the numbness was towards the inner or outer edge(s) of the forefoot, it may indicate a need for wedges (that cant the foot). Across the forefoot could indicate the need for foot beds with metatarsal buttons and/ or cleat fore/ aft adjustment (most likely, aft).

Also, does the numbness occur when more pressure is applied (hill climbs/ low cadence)? 

Provide more in the way of specifics and we can help pinpoint possible causes/ remedies.


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## Kw101 (Jul 28, 2012)

When I got pedals/shoes, I placed the cleats dead center, after a few rides I moved them all the way back. After a few more rides I moved them all the way to the front.
Right now they are placed all the way toward the toe and pushed to the inside. I can feel the pedal right under the spot that my toes and foot meet. 

I get the tingles in my toes, all of them. Tingles no matter the cleat position. 
Left foot only. I have med-hi arches. But my left foot is lower than my right.

I notice that I pedal toes pointed down a lot.


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## PJ352 (Dec 5, 2007)

Kw101 said:


> When I got pedals/shoes, I placed the cleats dead center, after a few rides I moved them all the way back. After a few more rides I moved them all the way to the front.
> Right now they are placed all the way toward the toe and pushed to the inside. I can feel the pedal right under the spot that my toes and foot meet.
> 
> I get the tingles in my toes, all of them. Tingles no matter the cleat position.
> ...


You may want to consider seeking out a reputable LBS to assist with cleat placement. Initially, your cleats should be positioned so that your ball of foot is aligned with, or slightly ahead of, the pedal spindle. From there, fine tuning may be required.

Other things to consider:

- You need to start with a solid foundation (stiff soles). Better quality shoes tend to have rigid soles.

- wear cycling specific socks. They're generally thinner than the generic variety.

- keep shoe straps/ fasteners _slightly_ loose. As you ride, your feet will swell so starting out this way minimizes the chance for a tight fit. Still, if you feel the need, stop during a ride to adjust them looser.

- If your shoes don't already have them, consider insoles with sufficient arch support and metatarsal buttons. They help disperse pedal pressure across the forefoot.

- Keep cadence up. Low cadence prolongs the time you put pressure o your soles on the down stroke. It also increases that pressure. This will also help you smooth the pedal stroke and build endurance. Might want to read up on the topic.

Pedaling toes down is quite common. I do the same, and some pro's do it as well. The only drawback I see is 1) it has the potential to cramp your toes in the toe box and 2) lessens the force a rider can apply on climbs. Being aware of it betters the chances you'll counter the tendency, but IME, it's a hard habit to break (but I don't experience any numbness). 

Lastly, no one rides in perfect symmetry, so there's a chance _something_ (possibly a wedge) would need to be employed only on your left foot, but I'd suggest going through the steps above first. Together, they may be all that's need to alleviate the numbness.


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## Kw101 (Jul 28, 2012)

PJ352, while my shoes, pearl Izumi selects are entry level, they do have a stiff sole.

I do wear cycling socks.
Straps are loose, they are so loose in fact that my heel slides up and down. The Velcro straps don't overlap very much.

I don't have any special insoles.

Cadence is 92-96 rpms.

I'm really thinking that these shoes just don't fit my feet.


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## PJ352 (Dec 5, 2007)

Kw101 said:


> PJ352, while my shoes, pearl Izumi selects are entry level, they do have a stiff sole.
> 
> I do wear cycling socks.
> Straps are loose, they are so loose in fact that my heel slides up and down. The Velcro straps don't overlap very much.
> ...


If your heel slips, either tighten the straps (if possible) or if they're sufficiently tight and the heel still slips when pedaling, then yes, get a better fitting shoe.

This may not alleviate your numbness, but you have to start with a well designed, well fitting shoe or (odds are) none of the steps I outlined would work. I'm not familiar with PI shoes, but some brands have built in insoles with buttons and wedges to keep the knees aligned.

Your cadence is very good, BTW. Vary according to conditions, and keep a smooth pedal stroke.


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## Kw101 (Jul 28, 2012)

There in lays the issue. If I go tighter (no heel slip) numbness is way to bad.

I got these locally, perhaps they will let me swap for something else. I hate the idea of wasting 90 bucks on something. 

I try to keep smooth, shift gears often.


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## PJ352 (Dec 5, 2007)

Kw101 said:


> There in lays the issue. If I go tighter (no heel slip) numbness is way to bad.
> 
> I got these locally, perhaps they will let me swap for something else. I hate the idea of wasting 90 bucks on something.
> 
> I try to keep smooth, shift gears often.


I read the product description and it states that PI Selects have an insole with arch support. Still, that doesn't mean they're for you, and from your description above, I'd say fit is not optimal.

Most shops have a 30 day return policy, so if you think the shoes are the source of your problems, bring them back and try to work a deal with the store. 

If you end up buying another pair at that LBS, ask that they set up the cleats for you.


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## c_h_i_n_a_m_a_n (Mar 3, 2012)

PJ352 said:


> ...
> Pedaling toes down is quite common. I do the same, and some pro's do it as well. The only drawback I see is 1) it has the potential to cramp your toes in the toe box and 2) lessens the force a rider can apply on climbs. Being aware of it betters the chances you'll counter the tendency, but IME, it's a hard habit to break (but I don't experience any numbness).
> ...


Now that is interesting ... Will have to take note of that. I find myself pedalling toes down as well.


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## Kw101 (Jul 28, 2012)

Swapped out of the pi's tonight. Lbs gave me a hell of a deal on 2012 specialized comp. much better fit instantly. I only had time for 4 miles tonight but the toes box seems much roomier. Hope to get 15 miles in tomorrow. Let ya know how that goes.
Thanks for all the input and ideas fellas.

Kirk


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## PJ352 (Dec 5, 2007)

Kw101 said:


> Swapped out of the pi's tonight. Lbs gave me a hell of a deal on 2012 specialized comp. much better fit instantly. I only had time for 4 miles tonight but the toes box seems much roomier. Hope to get 15 miles in tomorrow. Let ya know how that goes.
> Thanks for all the input and ideas fellas.
> 
> Kirk


Good luck tomorrow. I hope the Comp's work out for you.

Nice thing about Spec shoes is they have both the foot beds with metatarsal buttons and wedges, built in. Still, fit has to be right for them to work.

Keep us updated....


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## Blakkout (May 22, 2013)

Pushed it off for a while now too.........just bought clip less and shimano R088's.....can't wait to get on the bike tomorrow!


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## Sause (Feb 1, 2013)

I went clipless as soon as I got my first road bike this year. I run egg beaters and Shimano M087 MTB shoes. $150 +/- 

ON the road they are great but I still am not sure about on the trail. I have fallen 10+ times on my MTB. Mainly on climbs when I run outta legs.


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## tlg (May 11, 2011)

Sause said:


> ON the road they are great but I still am not sure about on the trail. I have fallen 10+ times on my MTB. Mainly on climbs when I run outta legs.


Practice trackstands. Having good balance, just enough for about two seconds, gives you oodles of time to unclip and plant your foot. 

Also practice uncliping with both feet (not at the same time). On the road you can get in the habit of planting the same foot every time with little problems. However on the trail, you never know which foot you're going to need to plant.


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## czuber (Apr 9, 2013)

I got my shoes yesterday now to just install my pedals and give it a go!


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## Kw101 (Jul 28, 2012)

I have done 2 25 mile rides and zero foot issues. Thanks for all the input guys these specialized comp road are flat out amazing shoes.


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## PJ352 (Dec 5, 2007)

Kw101 said:


> I have done 2 25 mile rides and zero foot issues. Thanks for all the input guys these specialized comp road are flat out amazing shoes.


Yes, along with correct cleat set up, IMO/E good design and the right fit are keys to success. 

Glad the Comps are working your for you. I have 5 years on my Elites, and they're still going strong. Not a bad investment, considering...


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## czuber (Apr 9, 2013)

I got my first ride in with the new shoes and clipless pedals. It was only about 5 miles but I got a good feel for them. What a difference hills make. The first hill I climbed I felt my foot pulling up on the backstroke wow what a difference. I can't wait to try I longer ride. I spent most of this ride clipping and un-clipping to get a feel for that.


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## Rollingeezer (Oct 20, 2012)

Just a follow up, it's been about 3 wks with the clip less pedals....still a little apprehensive, and because of issues with my ankles and feet, the left is easier to get out of than the right, but, I love them! Like others have said, pulling up on the back stroke really adds to pedaling energy and pushing forward at the top of the stroke is working well too. If you're undecided, go for them...you won't regret getting them....BTW I have Speed Play Light Actions and Specialized shoes.


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## AndrwSwitch (May 28, 2009)

Be cautious of trying to develop force in weird parts of your pedal stroke. You still have to work for it, and it's not as efficient as the downstroke. There was a study a while ago that looked at where in their pedal stroke different cyclists were developing power. It was interesting - the elites really just do it on the downstroke. For me, the real strengths of clipless pedals are that they're convenient - even finding the cleats to use a clip-and-strap system with the same level of engagement would be difficult, and then there's using it - and I like that my particular system has a lot of float.

This isn't a brilliant article, but I'm too lazy to track down any of the original studies.
Perfect Pedal Strokes | Road Bike Rider

It's still useful to work on pedaling with clean form. A lot of people have a very distinct push-push style when they first come to clipless pedals, and have a lot of movement going on in other parts of their bodies, like their hips and higher. This is also pretty wasteful, and I think cleaning up the transition between the top and bottom of the pedal stroke and the power stroke is part of cleaning up that kind of thing.


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## Mapei (Feb 3, 2004)

To me, the best thing about being securely fastened to the pedals is that I just don't have to ever even think about my feet falling off the things. When I'm freewheeling, I can relax and essentially just let my feet sit on the pedals, using absolutely no pressure to keep them in place. When I want to zoom along or crunch up a hill, I can vary down strokes with circular and upstrokes, letting the strength I require or the various spots of fatigue that develop in my legs & feet do the talking. When my ankles require it, I can rotate my feet through the arc of the cleat without having to alter the perfect spot the pedals have secured my feet into.

It's not just strength or power issues that make clipless pedals so excellent compared to what went before, it's a comfort issue, too.


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## SGMDWK (Jul 22, 2012)

OK, I just got back from my first ride with clipless pedals and SPD compatible cycling shoes. I did my usual 23-mile route. I think there is probably a bit better power transfer with this setup than with my old toe clips and running shoes outfit. Most of the improvement seems to be from the stiffer soles on the shoes, rather than from the clip. My feet were pretty firmly planted with my old clips, too. 

Clipping in is much easier than I anticipated. I only sprang for Shimano 520 pedals, but they are two sided, so it's easy to slip the cleat in and snap down. No problems unclipping either, though it is still not the automatic, muscle-memory procedure of my old toe clips.

At the very least, I am more stylish now.


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## ROACHCLASS (Jul 29, 2013)

Sorry to bring up an old thread but figured it would be better then making a new one.

I'm thinking about going clip less for my next upgrade. I've been riding for about a month now and just wanted to get use to riding/bike to ensure I like it and I do. So I thought clipless would be a good upgrade.

Any ideas of what brand pedals/shoes are good for a beginner? Nothing too expensive as I'll be doing about 15-20 mile rides.

Thanks in advance for any replies.


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## 9W9W (Apr 5, 2012)

Shimano caters to the low/lowmid market with shoes like their R087's and such.

I am riding LOOK pedals and cleats, picked up a used pair off of ebay ($50 all in).


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## PJ352 (Dec 5, 2007)

ROACHCLASS said:


> Sorry to bring up an old thread but figured it would be better then making a new one.
> 
> I'm thinking about going clip less for my next upgrade. I've been riding for about a month now and just wanted to get use to riding/bike to ensure I like it and I do. So I thought clipless would be a good upgrade.
> 
> ...


Since most any clipless pedal system requires a period of acclimation, I don't think a noobs _main_ criteria should be ease of use. Rather, consider the importance of ease of walking and decide on a system based on that. MTB (recessed cleats) for easier walking, road shoes if walk-ability is a lesser issue.

Like many other facets of cycling, shoes are subjective, so I suggest visiting some LBS's, discussing your intended use (the walk-ability issue), try on a few pairs and decide from there. An additional benefit of going this route is that if you purchase the shoes from your LBS, many will include cleat set-up. An integral part of bike fit, and important to get right. 

BTW, no matter the price, be careful on 'cheaping out' on shoes. You want a well designed, well fitting shoe with a stiff sole. If any of those attributes are missing, you're apt to be less than satisfied with the results.


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## Indetrucks (Oct 8, 2012)

Welcome to 2013


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## ROACHCLASS (Jul 29, 2013)

PJ352 said:


> Since most any clipless pedal system requires a period of acclimation, I don't think a noobs _main_ criteria should be ease of use. Rather, consider the importance of ease of walking and decide on a system based on that. MTB (recessed cleats) for easier walking, road shoes if walk-ability is a lesser issue.
> 
> Like many other facets of cycling, shoes are subjective, so I suggest visiting some LBS's, discussing your intended use (the walk-ability issue), try on a few pairs and decide from there. An additional benefit of going this route is that if you purchase the shoes from your LBS, many will include cleat set-up. An integral part of bike fit, and important to get right.
> 
> BTW, no matter the price, be careful on 'cheaping out' on shoes. You want a well design, well fitting shoe with a stiff sole. If any of those attributes are missing, you're apt to be less than satisfied with the results.


Yes, I plan to go to the LBS and try on some shoes and see which feel best. I just wanted to know if there are some brands to stay away from or whatever.

As far as walking, I don't see myself doing much walking in the shoes.


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## PJ352 (Dec 5, 2007)

ROACHCLASS said:


> Yes, I plan to go to the LBS and try on some shoes and see which feel best. I just wanted to know if there are some brands to stay away from or whatever.
> 
> As far as walking, I don't see myself doing much walking in the shoes.


I love my Specialized road shoes and dislike Shimano's, but someone else will come along with an opposing viewpoint. Point being, like so many other cycling related items (helmets, shorts/ bibs, etc.) you have to try, then decide.

If walking isn't of great concern, you're options would include both MTB and road shoes/ pedals. I would suggest a cleat/ pedal system with float for ease of setup.


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