# BAD LBS in DC!



## x3u93n3x (Apr 1, 2007)

Just wanted to give people heads up that the "Bike Rack" in washington d.c. (Q street and 14th) will RIP YOU OFF.

I called them earlier today about helping me with my bike build. I bought a bike online and got it mostly built, but I can't seem to get the brake tension right. They told me that it would cost $40, but bring in the bike first. 

I walked my ass for over a mile and brought the bike in, no one even looked at it. This one guy didn't even look at me while talking, he was fixing a mtb wheel. Told me that it would still cost $40, and that i didn't need to bring my bike.

Basically, they were trying to make me walk the distance so that I would feel more obligated to fix it there. People were very unfriendly, all 4 of them. One guy was being a total jerk about tensioning, and he asked sarcastically, "YOU NEED AN ALLEN WRENCH. DO YOU KNOW WHAT AN ALLEN WRENCH IS?" What a dick! I brought in a race bike... why wouldn't I know what it is? Then they wouldn't let me borrow a chain whip, although I needed to tighten the cassette real quick. Piece of ****.

I'm not telling you to not go there.... just giving you heads up what kind of people they are.


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## MB1 (Jan 27, 2004)

On top of all that $40 for a brake adjustment is crazy......


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## fabsroman (Jul 14, 2006)

Good Lord, you can get a complete oil change and have some money left over for $40. I have never even heard of the Bike Rack. Probably because they suck. Because of what you experienced, I have bought all the tools necessary to build, tune, and repair my bikes. Same goes for my cars, and if I don't have the right tool, I don't hesitate to buy it. I really hate feeling like I am getting ripped off and I hate it when people try to make me feel like a moron.


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## Lifelover (Jul 8, 2004)

x3u93n3x said:


> Just wanted to give people heads up that the "Bike Rack" in washington d.c. (Q street and 14th) will RIP YOU OFF.
> 
> I called them earlier today about helping me with my bike build. I bought a bike online and got it mostly built, but I can't seem to get the brake tension right. They told me that it would cost $40, but bring in the bike first.
> 
> ...



Sounds like a BS story to me.

I'd bet they pissed you off over something you don't want to share. Maybe they didn't think you internet bike was as great of a deal as you did? Maybe they even pointed a few problems out with the bike?


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## fabsroman (Jul 14, 2006)

I'll believe him. I bought my Colnago Cristallo frame from the Internet for $1,000 less than what I could find it in the US for. I brought it to the Bicycle Pro Shop in Georgetown to have the headset installed and they gave me an attitude about me buying it over the internet and not through their shop. I still let the install the headset and even bought the headset and spacers from them. The bill came out to somewhere close to $200 with a Chris King headset and a combo of carbon fiber and aluminum spacers. About a week after I got the frame home, I noticed a 4 inch scratch of the first layer of the clear coat on the fork. It is nearly impossible to see, but it is there nonetheless. I asked the shop to look into ordering some spokes for me so that I could build up my wheels and they never got back to me. Then, several months later, after stripping a brake pad nut for my Campy Record brakes, I called them to get a replacement and they quoted me $30 for the bolt, but said they would look around for a lower price and then get back to me either way. I never heard from them and ended up finding the titanium nut for around $10 at Alfred E. Bike.

These guys probably didn't like the fact that he bought his bike off the internet and then wanted them to do the work on it. They might have figured that since he saved all that money on the internet purchase and they lost out on the profit of the sale, they would recoup it in the adjustment of his brake.

After my experience with the headset on my Cristallo, I went out and spent $400 to buy all the headset tools I need. I've built 3 bikes since the Cristallo and am happy as can be that I don't need any help from an LBS. Finding a good LBS is like finding a good auto mechanic.


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## Dave Hickey (Jan 27, 2002)

x3u93n3x said:


> Then they wouldn't let me borrow a chain whip, although I needed to tighten the cassette real quick. Piece of ****.


I wouldn't either...you don't need a whip to tighten a cassette... Loosen yes...tighten no...


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## fabsroman (Jul 14, 2006)

Yeah, that is true. No whip needed to tighten down a cassette. I overlooked that part of the story. Maybe this is his first bike build.


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## bikeboy389 (May 4, 2004)

Dave Hickey said:


> I wouldn't either...you don't need a whip to tighten a cassette... Loosen yes...tighten no...


I caught that too. I'm also having a little conceptual difficulty with brake tension. Brake centering, yes. Adjusting how close the pads are to the rim, yes. Tension? Not getting it.

And frankly, I wouldn't lend anyone my tools where I'm supposed to be getting paid to use them. You wouldn't pull your car into the work bay at a car dealership and ask to use one of their tools for a quick adjustment, would you?

I'm sure they were dicks--lots of bike shop folk are dicks. But they've also seen it all before. Get asked the same stupid questions 1000 times a week, get everybody coming in wanting to just borrow a tool and not pay your for your time or the tool (and/or stealing the tool), get people coming in thinking that because it's a bike everything can be done easily and while they wait, and it's easy to see why some shops have a sign like this:

Repairs: $20/hour.
If you tried to fix it yourself first: add $10 per hour.
If you want to watch/help: add $100 per hour.


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## S-Works95 (Jan 15, 2007)

I have read all the replies. I really think some of you guys need to lighten up. 1st of all Internet shopping, LBSs, and Mega Chains like Performance Bike do not mix. In case you do not know when you walk in a store, with a bike part you have purchased off the internet, and ask a LBS to install it, it is like a slap in the face to them. Most of those bike shops are getting ready to go out of business because of EBay, Internet Shopping, and Chain stores like Performance Bike. So when you walk in know upfront, that are going to charge you the normal labor rate. As a matter of fact they hang that Labor rate charge sign up on the wall for people who do that kind of stuff to them. Also understands, that theses guys have a mortgage, car notes, and families just like you do. Also most bike shops that are still around are in usually in good neighborhoods which makes their store rent very high. It is not so much that I am taking up for rude behavior on the part of the bike shop. But I dare you go on the internet, buy a part for a BMW, go into your local BMW, and ask them to put it on at a cheap price. In my 12 or so years of high end bike experience I have found that if I purchase the part from the store, they will either install it at no charge, or give me a break on the part and the install fee. If I buy a bike a part on the web or at a swap meet, I either do it myself, or trick on of my cycling buddies to stop by, order a pizza, flip on one of the games. During a commercial break, I just simply say “hey come take a look at this for me”. Let me tell you the sight of Carbon Fiber and Park tools will make any hard core cyclist weak. It is kind of like starting Weight Watchers on Thanksgiving week.

Now again I am not defending poor customer service. But let me tell you 2 experinces I had through out the years.

1.	I did a local organized century ride. One of the LBS I visit was staffing one of the pit stops along the route. I stopped over to say Hi, and had him check out my shifting. While the bike was on the stand he noticed I had a Performance Bike Shop Water Bottle. He said in a high pitched voice PERFORMANCE and almost had a baby on the spot. Lesson number 1, use a neutral water bottle in public like your bike manufacture, and save the other ones for the trainer.

2.	I was going to buy a new set of wheels, and saw a fantastic deal on from a big chain bike shop on the web. So wanting to support my local LBS, who had the same wheels hanging from the rafter of his shop. I stopped in and say hey, I was just about to order those same wheels on line, and I wanted to give you a chance to match the online price before I got them. He calmly looked me in the eyes and like John Wayne out of western flick says “I am not into stuffing boxes, and running to the post office, this is a full service bike shop”. Lesson number # 2 is be very careful when asking you LBS to match internet prices.

3. I remember one Christmas morning when I was some where between 10 and 13, not sure the age. I was standing in my front yard, and I saw one of my childhood buddies come flying down the street on his brand new bike. Now let me explain. I lived on a hill, a big hill. On top of it being a big hill, it had a curve in the middle of it. I am standing in envy because he flying down the hill on his brand new shinny bike. It could have been one of those Stu Thomas Huffy’s or one of the Team Murray BMX bikes, not sure. Now like I say, he is flying down the hill, and in less than 3 seconds I am jealous. When he gets to the bend in the road of the hill, I see him turning the handlebars. Will one problem, the bike does not turn it keeps going straight. As a matter of fact he tugs, and pulls the handle bar, and stem straight out of the head tube. He goes flying into a neighbors yard, and runs smack in a huge pine tree. Bottom line he was pretty messed up. The story came out that his mother purchased his bike, and tried to put it together herself on Christmas Eve. What can we learn from this? Lesson number 3 # if you have saved a couple bucks by ordering your part on line. Consider having a LBS, with a skilled wrench that works on high-end bikes install it for you. That is very important in this day of ultra light Carbon Fiber components (stems, handle bars, seat post, crank sets etc). A lot of these parts require special torque wrenches that the average guy does have at home. Also these high-end Carbon parts and frames need to be inspected from time to time to see cracks have begun to form. Also these parts usually come with these ultra soft titanium bolts that strip very easily. Bottom line, there are some times when you just need to kick out the money and get it done by a pro. The life you save just might be your own. 


When it all said and done am I mad at them no, because I understand they have to put food on the table, and the reality of the internet and chain stores (Performance Bike Shop, REI, and Hudson Trail Outfitters) is driving many of the LBS out of business. If you ride with a bike club or group, survey the guys and see who knows how to work on bikes. Call them in advance of ordering your new part, and ask them when you can stop by, so they can show you h0w to install it. I have done this many times and it has never failed me. Also most LBS or bike clubs have workshops from time to time to show you the basics. Also invest in the books The Art of Mountain Bike Maintenance, and The Art of Road Bike Maintenance both by Lennard Zinn. These books show you step by step how to do almost anything. 

Last but not least if the customer service really sucks, just simply walk out, and never go back again. Also call back, ask for the owner, and tell him of your experience. When he come back in the next day he just might take out a pair of his Sidis, and start hanging foot up somebody’s tail.


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## fabsroman (Jul 14, 2006)

Great post. Regarding item #1, I had a similar thing happen to me. When I was racing for College Park Cycles, I came to the shop one day on a training ride with a Nashbar brand jersey with the logo on the sleeve. Larry Black almost had a cow. He had me take the shirt off and swapped it with me for a new one that he had in the shop. I'm sure he threw that Nashbar jersey away, or used it for a rag, so I actually got something for free from Larry.

I don't know if I posted this above, but I have had one bad experience lately at an LBS when I ordered my Colnago frame from Europe and I took it to an LBS to have the headset installed. I actually bought the headset from the LBS, but they were still pretty snotty about installing it. Such is life. Now, I have all the headset tools except for the cut off guide, but that is only because I haven't needed to cut a fork yet. You can bet that I will order that tool when I need to cut my first fork. At the end of the day, I prefer to do all my own car and bike maintenance. Not only does it save me money, but I know the job is done right.


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## homebrew (Oct 28, 2004)

I have found that in the long run it pays to develop a good relationship with your LBS. While some parts may be a bit more I have had lots of work done free, discounts on lots of parts, they have even replaced a set of rotor rings with the new edition at no charge becouse the new rings shifted better (cost saved over $200). I get to the front of the line and work is done as if it was their own. Once every so often I bring them a six pack of "chain Lube", it does wonders. A tip for the mechanic also goes a long way. Independent bike shops are becoming rare, support them if you want them to stick around. If you find a good price online ask them if they can match it. Figure in insallation costs. You may be suprised


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## cpark (Oct 13, 2004)

fabsroman said:


> I'll believe him. I bought my Colnago Cristallo frame from the Internet for $1,000 less than what I could find it in the US for. I brought it to the Bicycle Pro Shop in Georgetown to have the headset installed and they gave me an attitude about me buying it over the internet and not through their shop. I still let the install the headset and even bought the headset and spacers from them. The bill came out to somewhere close to $200 with a Chris King headset and a combo of carbon fiber and aluminum spacers. About a week after I got the frame home, I noticed a 4 inch scratch of the first layer of the clear coat on the fork. It is nearly impossible to see, but it is there nonetheless. I asked the shop to look into ordering some spokes for me so that I could build up my wheels and they never got back to me. Then, several months later, after stripping a brake pad nut for my Campy Record brakes, I called them to get a replacement and they quoted me $30 for the bolt, but said they would look around for a lower price and then get back to me either way. I never heard from them and ended up finding the titanium nut for around $10 at Alfred E. Bike.
> 
> These guys probably didn't like the fact that he bought his bike off the internet and then wanted them to do the work on it. They might have figured that since he saved all that money on the internet purchase and they lost out on the profit of the sale, they would recoup it in the adjustment of his brake.
> 
> After my experience with the headset on my Cristallo, I went out and spent $400 to buy all the headset tools I need. I've built 3 bikes since the Cristallo and am happy as can be that I don't need any help from an LBS. Finding a good LBS is like finding a good auto mechanic.


I'm not surpried as I've heard many complains about the Pro Shop.
I used work at the bike shop when I was in college and that's no way to treat another cyclist/customer. And yes, you do get many stupid questions/requests but you are in retail and should expect that. I think the issue might be that the some of the hires may not be very retail minded and their behavior directly reflects on the shop and that's too bad.
I usually work on my bikes but when I'm short on time, I take it to the Revolution Cycles.
I had great experience with them.


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## Coolhand (Jul 28, 2002)

Labor is the highest margin item in the shop, smart shops don't mind installing your Ebay part, as they don't have to discount the labor for the install. Don't be a tool and use them to fit your shoes before buying them off Ebay though. That's lame.


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## cpark (Oct 13, 2004)

S-Works95 said:


> I have read all the replies. I really think some of you guys need to lighten up. 1st of all Internet shopping, LBSs, and Mega Chains like Performance Bike do not mix. In case you do not know when you walk in a store, with a bike part you have purchased off the internet, and ask a LBS to install it, it is like a slap in the face to them. Most of those bike shops are getting ready to go out of business because of EBay, Internet Shopping, and Chain stores like Performance Bike. So when you walk in know upfront, that are going to charge you the normal labor rate. As a matter of fact they hang that Labor rate charge sign up on the wall for people who do that kind of stuff to them. Also understands, that theses guys have a mortgage, car notes, and families just like you do. Also most bike shops that are still around are in usually in good neighborhoods which makes their store rent very high. It is not so much that I am taking up for rude behavior on the part of the bike shop. But I dare you go on the internet, buy a part for a BMW, go into your local BMW, and ask them to put it on at a cheap price. In my 12 or so years of high end bike experience I have found that if I purchase the part from the store, they will either install it at no charge, or give me a break on the part and the install fee. If I buy a bike a part on the web or at a swap meet, I either do it myself, or trick on of my cycling buddies to stop by, order a pizza, flip on one of the games. During a commercial break, I just simply say “hey come take a look at this for me”. Let me tell you the sight of Carbon Fiber and Park tools will make any hard core cyclist weak. It is kind of like starting Weight Watchers on Thanksgiving week.
> 
> Now again I am not defending poor customer service. But let me tell you 2 experinces I had through out the years.
> 
> ...


Well put!!!!


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## bjm (Feb 21, 2005)

*Getting back to this orginal topic*

This shop sold my 5'5" buddy a 61cm bike 

He soon realized his error and took it back the following day. Shop wouldn't take it back without the owner present. He was out of the shop for a few days and had to come back later in the week.

They offered to exchange and find him the same bike in a 54cm. It took two months. An employee called him and told him it was ready for pickup. He went after work to finally claim it only to find they sold it earlier that afternoon. (It had already been paid for) So after a 9 week wait and 6 trips to the shop he finally had enough.


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## lx93 (Jun 14, 2007)

bjm said:


> So after a 9 week wait and 6 trips to the shop he finally had enough.


Definitely not a good experience- I hope that he's still riding. Did they refund his money?


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## bjm (Feb 21, 2005)

*yup*

They refunded him and the next day he picked up a new ride from City Bikes with zero hassles.


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## California L33 (Jan 20, 2006)

Coolhand said:


> Labor is the highest margin item in the shop, smart shops don't mind installing your Ebay part, as they don't have to discount the labor for the install. Don't be a tool and use them to fit your shoes before buying them off Ebay though. That's lame.


Amen! :thumbsup: 

Can you imagine going into a Chevy dealer with the Chevy you bought the next town over and having them mad because you bought it there? They'd be falling all over themselves to do everything from change the oil to major repairs, to "Hey, you didn't buy it here, but we can still get you that extended warranty."

You buy a bike online and it comes out of the box and what does it need? A tune up. Tune ups cost $80+ around here. That's almost all profit and you don't have to keep inventory on hand. 

Any shop that wants your business for parts or bikes has only to match (or come close) to the online or large retailers (who also have significant overhead, but make up for it with volume). The major limiting factor that keeps me out of my LBS isn't price, it's selection. When my pump broke a while back I looked for a replacement online. I liked what I had and wanted an exact replacement. (Topeak Joe Blow Pro). I decided I couldn't wait that long and went to the LBS figuring I'd just take what they had. To my surprise I found they had the JBP (it was one of three pumps they had, but they had it). I bought it. Oh, and it was $5 less than on the Performance web site.


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