# What is making everyone so fat



## Dave Cutter

While cycling through town in the recent heat wave I noticed many people doing yard work. Some of the housewife's were somewhat scantly dressed... which made me realize... America has a real obesity problem.

It is a common enough question: What is making everyone so fat?

I have a theory. It may be stupid and completely off base. And I really like to hear/read other peoples ideas.

But I remember the days when very few people were over weight. In the late 1950's there was one boy and one girl in my entire elementary school that was "heavy". And I really only remember one heavy person in my high school graduating class. 

The Vietnam era Army they had a special basic training for overweight trainees. And it was rare for any of us to have a weight problem. I remember two old sergeants who struggled with weight issues.

Watching TV the other night I saw a commercial that made me want to find a sweet treat. I try not to snack in the evening.... but it made me think. Could all these great food and restaurant commercials be sending people to the frig... and maybe an early grave too. 

Sure... we had commercials in the 50's and 60's too. But many of the night time commercials are now illegal. 

Virginia Slims: the last cigarette ad on TV: 1/1/71 aired on NBC's The Tonight Show With Johnny Carson just before midnight (ad featured model/actress Veronica Hamel, who went on to star in NBC's Hill Street Blues).


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## Mike T.

Dave Cutter said:


> I noticed many people doing yard work. Some of the housewife's were somewhat scantly dressed.


We need pics!



> America has a real obesity problem.


Unless they fit this observation; then don't bother.


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## bikerjulio

Sadly it's not just an American problem. My last two trips to the UK were notable for very fat english wimmen in the airplane seat next to me whose bulk was not constrained by armrests.

I'm old too. I can show you school pictures from the 60's with no fat kids at all.

Fast, easy food?

TV and computers?


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## stevesbike

Your theory is undermined by the growing problem known as 'globesity.' Obesity is a growing problem not only in industrialized countries but also developing ones (where presumably there is less influence of commercials).

WHO | Controlling the global obesity epidemic

The more basic problems areindustrialized food production, which makes calorically dense food widely available and cheap and lack of satiation mechanisms (even if someone is satiated on one food they will still eat another - applied example is restaurant desserts).


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## Cinelli 82220

Canada too. 
At Costco today I saw three different hugely obese women on those electric scooters. 
The first fatmobile I remember was in 1983 in Calgary, a plant had one overweight guy with gout who rode around on one. But in the last few years you see someone on one every time you go shopping.
We have an employee who is so overweight she had to get both knees replaced. She just came back to work and her eating habits have not changed, nor has her weight. How can she not connect the two?

This is going to cost the healthcare system billions. Maybe more than smoking.


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## Poncharelli

Few months ago i spent an hour on this page:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Obesity#Causes

Fascinating stuff. I was wondering the same thing. I'm currently at a family reunion and seeing how they've exploded is quite a shocker. But they're all wondering how I'm staying under control. It's just simple math with calories.


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## nOOky

I would guess it's the available food we have. Everything cheap is calorie dense and yummy. Everything healthy tastes bad and costs more. Easy to pick up a box of chocolate ho ho's for 99 cents, you just pop 'em in your mouth. Buying fresh brussel sprouts requires work and effort, and they taste like ass.

I like whole foods without a lot of seasoning. I also love fruit pies and brownies. Self-control is what makes me eat the broccoli over the frozen french fries.

(BTW I love brussel sprouts and no I don't know what ass tastes like)


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## kookieCANADA

Combination of eating too much "crap" food and lack of exercise (assuming no underlying medical conditions).

I grew up on McDonalds (and other fast food places) as a kid as my parents didn't have time to cook (always working). But I always kept active...played hockey (road and ice) all-year round, soccer, baseball and rode my bike everywhere.


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## velodog

Spoons


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## aureliajulia

Poncharelli said:


> Fascinating stuff. I was wondering the same thing. I'm currently at a family reunion and seeing how they've exploded is quite a shocker. But they're all wondering how I'm staying under control. It's just simple math with calories.


Yes, it's not so entertaining when you are questioned by said fat people, and respond with the obvious: avoid overrating or being full, count calories. People get rather offended when that's mentioned. Gasp! No! It's not my fault! 

Yeah, right.


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## love4himies

nOOky said:


> I would guess it's the available food we have. Everything cheap is calorie dense and yummy. Everything healthy tastes bad and costs more. Easy to pick up a box of chocolate ho ho's for 99 cents, you just pop 'em in your mouth. Buying fresh brussel sprouts requires work and effort, and they taste like ass.
> 
> I like whole foods without a lot of seasoning. I also love fruit pies and brownies. Self-control is what makes me eat the broccoli over the frozen french fries.
> 
> (BTW I love brussel sprouts and no I don't know what ass tastes like)


This ^^. There is a fast food/donut shop on every corner waiting for people who have no will power to walk in and make the owners richer. Before the 80's, you had to cook everything from scratch, so mom's were limiting children's food and not feeding them crap that they are feeding them now. Adults took their own lunch to work and eating breakfast before they leave the house, not popping into the local donut shop or McDonalds.

Today's moms and dads are so busy with both parents working and putting their kids in organized activities after school, that they are just bringing pizza or KFC home for dinner. Kids are given lunch money, so kids are buying junk instead of eating a healthy one.


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## mikerp

Cheap high carb/sugar diets and lack of exercise. At one time it was a US thing, it's firmly taken hold in Europe as well.


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## tom_h

bikerjulio said:


> Sadly it's not just an American problem. My last two trips to the UK were notable for very fat english wimmen in the airplane seat next to me whose bulk was not constrained by armrests.
> ...


Australia & NZ, too.

http://well.blogs.nytimes.com/2013/07/25/obesity-comes-to-australia

_Australia and its equally outdoorsy neighbor, New Zealand, are now two of the fattest countries in the developed world. 
__Obesity rates in the two countries have tripled in the last three decades, mirroring the sharp rise that occurred in the United States during roughly the same period. 

In Australia, at least 60 percent of adults and roughly a quarter of children are overweight or obese.
_
_A United Nations report this month showed that Mexico and the United States, in that order, lead the developed world in obesity. But Australia and New Zealand were only slightly behind._


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## Dave Cutter

velodog said:


> Spoons


*Curse those damn spoons!* 

I like a bit of humor in my life. Thanks for not letting the entire thread become overwhelmingly serious.


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## Carverbiker

Sugar! Once the body gets used to eating sugar it beomes the preferred source for energy and not fat. As soon as the notion that eating fat made you fat and caused heart disease became prevalent all of the food companies began removing fat from food and the taste was terrible! Solution, add sugar! Combine this with the shift from physical labor to more "mental" labor and its associated lack of physical activity, on average people are burning fewer calories. Adding to the issue is the ease at which food is available today with all of the decadent options available "on-demand".

Combine this with stress which raises the cortisol levels in the blood, further causing the body to store belly fat and you have the perfect storm for creating obese individuals.


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## 4Crawler

Dave Cutter said:


> But I remember the days when very few people were over weight. In the late 1950's there was one boy and one girl in my entire elementary school that was "heavy". And I really only remember one heavy person in my high school graduating class.


I know what you mean. I was on the wrestling team while in High School and several seasons we could not get anyone to wrestle in the heavyweight class. I think one season we had a guy who could make the minimum weight (something around 180 lbs. as I recall). But one season for sure we did not have anyone that could meet the minimum weight, so one of the JV wrestlers, who weighed like 168lbs. normally, would chug 1-2 gallons of water/Tang prior to weigh in so he could make the minimum. He usually ended up getting beat if the heavy weight on the other team was rather fit, but every once in a while he would come up against a chunky opponent and he could often beat them with speed and agility.


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## .je

I hope I'm remembering and interpreting this correctly: A few months ago i was reading that in the early 80s or so, big food companies like Kellogg etc. noticed a plateau in profits, so went about strategies to increase... and settled on snacking as that avenue. Around that time, I noticed things that weren't around as a small child: It started with those snack-packs with crackers and pretend cheese, fruit roll-ups, pudding pops, all that garbage that coincided with yuppies, BMWs, leg warmers, etc. I dont think this was readily available before?

I wonder also if this coincided with everything, absolutely everything, being industrially and cheaply made from high-fructose corn syrup, which is a great substitute for nutrition if you measure this by calories, mass, and volume. Food isn't food anymore, even from the way I remember it.

Also, if you have to cook a lot of food quickly and consistently, the fastest way to do that is by soaking and baking/frying it in oil. If you want steak that cooks quickly and consitently, it's easiest (and cheapest) to use a fatty steak.

It doesn't help that packaged and processed sugar-food is cheaper than real food, and you don't even have to cook it. This by a large factor - I was horrified when traveling through NYS, Texas, how expensive vegetables are. 

It's awful that what is unique cuisine, slowly cooked, expensive, and in small quantity, is what we used to call normal vegetables, meat, fruit, juice, home-made stuff - why, because that's what was for sale in stores, and what our immigrant families knew how to make from their (or at least our) lack of money and resources (that's why they're here now).

I googled "portion sizes over time"
View attachment 284858
View attachment 284859
View attachment 284860



Think of this too: You can sell a larger portion of packaged or cooked food that costs an extra 75 cents in cost.... for 2 dollars more in price. That adds up too.


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## andione1983

this is the way


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## sdeeer

Whole Health Source

There is a ton of good info there ^^ and it is referenced/linked to peer-reviewed references.

It is much more complex than the often cited 'eat less, move more'

Food reward and the entire food environment is not a 'good thing' for those of us who are genetically susceptible and mostly sedentary..


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## Used2Run

Think about what a spork would do to that poor guy!


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## upstateSC-rider

Air conditioning, that's the problem.
Ever work outside all day? What do you crave afterwards? Water, fruits, small meals...definitely not going to a buffet.
Being inside an A/C building all day, to me, is akin to being indoors during the winter, craving all kinds of comfort food.


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## old_fuji

View attachment 284902

'murica


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## Wyville

Dave Cutter said:


> It is a common enough question: What is making everyone so fat?


The answer is NEAT: Non-Exercise Activity Thermogenesis.

In less Expensive terms: People are lazy and/or inactive. There is a considerable amount of calories burned by having an active job (in contrast to sitting behind a desk), active hobbies (instead of sitting on the couch), taking the stairs (instead of lift or escalator), riding a bike to work (instead of a car), etc., etc.. Combined with the overabundance of poor quality food and the addictive properties of high caloric foods, it's a very structural problem.

Came across this funny statistic the other day, I don't know how accurate it is, but I'm sure there was a core of truth in it... In the '60s we spent 17% of our income on food and 6% on healthcare. Today we spend 6% on food and 17% on healthcare.


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## tednugent

Penn Jillette's commentary...

Red Eye (Recorded Jun 6, 2012, FNCHD)(CF).ts - YouTube


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## MTBryan01

That 'Spoons made me fat' clip is hilarious!

I've thought a lot about this over the past year and my opinion is that it is the result of a lot of factors:

1) TV - When I was growing up, sitting around and watching 200+ channels on TV wasn't an option. We had Leave it to Beaver and the Andy Griffith show after school, and that was about it. (No Beaver jokes please). There was absolutely nothing else to do but go out and play, which including riding a bike. 

2) TV scare tactics - Now there are thousands of reporters trying to sensationalize stories for the sake of increased ratings, creating fear. Parents think it isn't safe for their kids to step outside so they opt to keep them indoors, plugged into electronic devices. 

3) Toys - When I do see kids outdoors playing, many are riding scooters and little mini-bikes around. I was riding my PEDAL bike a few weeks ago and the only kids I saw outdoors playing were riding such motorized devices. I didn't see one kid riding a freak'n bike!

4) Comfort - I like the AC comment earlier in this thread. That's true! When I was young, we didn't have AC in our cars or house. When it was hot, it was hot! We went outside and had water fights. Now we have our local news telling us how dangerous it is, and we should stay inside (they just want us to watch more TV). 

5) Food - People want taste and convenience. Eating healthy isn't a priority for most people. Processed foods and fast foods are the norm. I had someone tell me recently: I don't doooooooo vegetables. Like they were proud of that defiance! SERIOUSLY? Food really is medicine! Or, it is either good food now, or medicine later. You choose!

6) Stigma - Being thin, especially as a guy, is looked down upon in many parts of the country. I am personally thin and tall and get crap weekly about being 'too skinny'. Someone just told me yesterday that I need to eat more cheese burgers. Guys are expected to either be overweight, or bulked up. It doesn't matter that I can ride my bike at 50+ faster and longer than most 20 year olds, that I never get sick, have great sleep habits and don't have any symptoms that most guys my age have. Actually, I've been bulkier in my life (more muscular) and I personally think being thin with more aerobic capacity is overall healthier. But hey, what do I know!


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## skinewmexico

I recently read the book "Wheatbelly", which has some interesting theories on how genetically engineered wheat has effected the general population. And I can't think of anything else to say because I can't get that image andione1983 posted out of my head.


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## Dave Cutter

Wyville said:


> ....... Came across this funny statistic the other day, I don't know how accurate it is, but I'm sure there was a core of truth in it... In the '60s we spent 17% of our income on food and 6% on healthcare. Today we spend 6% on food and 17% on healthcare.


By my memory... your stat sounds about right. 

It was in the late 50's when American cost for food fell below 20% for the average person. A historically monumental accomplishment!

The cost reductions were due to increased farm productivity. As food production increased the government enacted programs to bolster farm/crop prices because farmers were going broke from dropping prices. 

Under the Kennedy administration a welfare program that put "stamps" (based on the ration stamp program of WW2) to be used for the purchase of food.... into the hands of poor.

The Welfare policies were successful in stabilizing the falling food prices. And... it did so without causing the poorest Americans to go hungry. The food stamp program is still a part of the dept. of agriculture.... and a huge part of the American culture.

Health insurance was almost always what today is called major medical. Meaning unless you were really sick or needed an operation.... the cost was generally out-of-pocket. If doctors raised prices too high... business would fall off and profits would fall. Supply and demand kept prices in check.


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## 9W9W

I went to a diner the other morning, I'm not a fan but we were meeting someone. Halfway through the meal a heavyset couple sat at the booth next to us. A few minutes later they got up and reseated themselves at the table with chairs... the woman simply did not fit in the booth.

It definitely has to be something. My fiance and I are working out like beasts always an uphill battle. I recently saw pictures of an old friend from Poland. She is now 33, 3 kids? You wouldn't be able to tell her body from that of a fit 21 year old in the states, board flat stomach and all. Amazing. No "exercise routine", no "active lifestyle", no latest and greatest base layers or sneakers. Just life over there. Desk job and kids.

UFB.

I forgot to add that Poland was one of the last few nations in Europe to allow GMO seeds to be planted. Approval to allow GMO was just passed last summer, bummer.


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## nOOky

Thinking about this thread I realized that some here might feel offended. Even here, on a road biking enthusiast forum, the number of folks that list their weight above 200 lbs is startling. Threads abound on Clyde wheelsets, Atkins diet tips, etc. You would think that people that ride a road bike any amount would be fairly fit and trim. I'm not trying to offend anyone here, my point is that even among active road bike riders the battle to lose weight is a struggle.

Nowadays people that are "normal" weight look sickly to most people, because our view and perception of normal has become so skewed...


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## alegerlotz

nOOky said:


> Thinking about this thread I realized that some here might feel offended. Even here, on a road biking enthusiast forum, the number of folks that list their weight above 200 lbs is startling. Threads abound on Clyde wheelsets, Atkins diet tips, etc. You would think that people that ride a road bike any amount would be fairly fit and trim. I'm not trying to offend anyone here, my point is that even among active road bike riders the battle to lose weight is a struggle.
> 
> Nowadays people that are "normal" weight look sickly to most people, because our view and perception of normal has become so skewed...


To your point, I'm 47, 5' 11" and weight 185 lbs. I've been cycling for a year and right now ride between 50 and 125 miles a week (depending on weather and my travel schedule) - July to July I've ridden about 2K miles. I essentially haven't lost any weight in 8 months. I've gained some muscle, but haven't lost weight.

According to my heart rate monitor I've burned around 25K calories per month exercising during May, June, and July.

I can't imaging how hard it would be if I were eating fast food and junk food as well.


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## MTBryan01

nOOky said:


> Thinking about this thread I realized that some here might feel offended. Even here, on a road biking enthusiast forum, the number of folks that list their weight above 200 lbs is startling. Threads abound on Clyde wheelsets, Atkins diet tips, etc. You would think that people that ride a road bike any amount would be fairly fit and trim. I'm not trying to offend anyone here, my point is that even among active road bike riders the battle to lose weight is a struggle.
> 
> Nowadays people that are "normal" weight look sickly to most people, because our view and perception of normal has become so skewed...


Yes, very true. I meet at my local LBS on Thursdays for a beer and a chat. Most of the guys are in the 200+ range. Even those that ride 3-4 days/week. Even riding miles doesn't insure weight loss if you are eating poorly (and drinking too much beer on Thursday nights). 
At 6'3" and 185 pounds, I am in the normal range for body fat percentage. Not super low though. Yet, I am considered too skinny? If I gained 30 pounds, I'd be considered over-weight.


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## Newnan3

The number of hrs a day the avg household spends watching tv has increased each decade since the 60's. The proportion of the population that is overweight has increased with that.


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## spade2you

The simple answer that most people will dodge is that the general public likes food more than working out. This is where they'll blame wheat gluten n' stuff. 

There are lots of people on teh interw3b that are on a fad diet. Most of them simply will not keep it off. 

I'll admit I'm small at 5'6" ~120lbs. It seems that every year it gets harder and harder for me to find clothing. I wear a 30x30 in slacks. Rare as hell if a store actually stocks them. Some of the store sponsored cycling clubs simply don't order kits smaller than medium, which is why I don't ride for them.


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## Bail_Monkey

High Fructose Corn Syrup & Processed foods. 'Back in the day', you had to grow your own food, hunt your own meat and cook it. With the convenience of food manufacturing and microwaves over the last few decades, many of the foods in the grocery store are processed with preservatives, sugar and fat. (The only 2 areas that are not processed are the produce and meat sections, and they have their own issues...GMO, Growth Hormones, Steroids...) Food manufactures don't care about excessive calories for their products, they want the food to taste good so people will purchase over and over...


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## loxx0050

MTBryan01 said:


> Yes, very true. I meet at my local LBS on Thursdays for a beer and a chat. Most of the guys are in the 200+ range. Even those that ride 3-4 days/week. Even riding miles doesn't insure weight loss if you are eating poorly (and drinking too much beer on Thursday nights).
> At 6'3" and 185 pounds, I am in the normal range for body fat percentage. Not super low though. Yet, I am considered too skinny? If I gained 30 pounds, I'd be considered over-weight.


I would consider you too skinny based on just seeing your weight and height alone on paper (but won't jump to any conclusions unless I see your overall body type and structure in person). Everybody is different, you are only a pound or two on me right now and I'm just a little over 5'9" but have an athletic build with a body fat % in the mid-to low teens. My older bro is a bout 1.5-2" shorter than me but weighs in about 150ish; my younger bro (who is about the same height as the older sibling) is actually around the same weight as me but a little on the heavier side as he isn't nearly as active. 

I have trouble buying jeans because they never fit right. 33" waist jeans are way too big in one area but are too tight in another area. The leg room in the thighs is borderline too tight for me (think how how women's skinny jeans fit) depending on the brand but the waist room are always too big for me. But if I go the next waist size up it looks like I am sporting saggy jeans and should be in a rap video or something.


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## phoehn9111

Look, I want to be sympathetic with these people, but with all the fad diets, fad foods,
tummytuck belts, liposuction, etc, etc, compounded with the multilayered system of
implausible alibis "it's not your fault" BS, I'm sorry it comes down to a lack of discipline.
Compound this with societies treatment of an endurance athlete with a sensible bodyfat
percentage as a freak of nature to be tolerated at best and ridiculed\reviled at worst,
and I am at a loss to care, much less want to understand the root causes of obesity.


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## PixelPaul

What a really interesting topic. Probably a result of a number of different reasons, but my thoughts:

1. What the hell do kids do nowadays? We recently moved to a new subdivision and nearly every house has playsets in the yard so there shurly must be kids, but I don't ever see anyone using them or doing anything outside. Probably the obvious answer is video games and TV, but we had that as a kid and we would play outside from early AM until dark every day the weather permitted. Only time we ever watched TV was on rainy days or after dark. 

2. As if the obesity problem isn't at a critical enough point, now we have TV shows that glorify eating obscene amounts of food. Was recently at a family event and everyone was watching some stupid show about eating a 3' doughnut or 6# hamburger. I found it to be quite repulsive but many seemed to be entertained by it.

3. After I graduated from college I got a job coaching cross-country at the local high school. I remember the first week of practice asking one boy why he wasn't at practice the previous day. He told me he couldn't come because his mom got called in to work and he didn't have a ride. Turns out he lived 6 blocks from the school? You can probably figure out how long he lasted.

4. In any regard in today's hyper-partisan climate I can't imagine anything ever changing. Ever hear right-wing radio trash Michelle Obama for "big government nanny state takeover" for encouraging kids to exercise after school. Such a controversial issue.

My only question as we become a more and more obese state, is why do so many heavy and overweight women (and men) insist on wearing scant clothing?


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## Oxtox

I'm 6' and 157 lbs.

I ride 120-140 miles/wk, swim, walk 1.2 miles a day during morning work breaks.

I eat copious amounts of a wide variety of foods, but focus on items that are wholesome, unprocessed, organic, grass-fed, gluten-free, etc etc.

a good percentage of my coworkers are uber-plump to disgustingly fat. they don't do jacksquat in terms of exercise, eat fast food at lunch on most days, and have pizza hut on speed-dial for dinner.

most likely the differences are just a random coincidence.


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## ColoradoMike

My theory has a socio-economics basis. We've all heard the line, the rich get richer and the poor keep getting poorer and in this case, I believe the rich have the means to remain healthy and the poor are just trying to survive. Some of this might be assumptions because we all know the rich guy drinking 5 nights a week or the poor family very involved in sports but these are the exceptions. 

I feel I can really speak to this topic because I was raised poor, attended a very well-known university, landed a well paying job 'for a time' and pretty much lost everything and now I am back to where I started, maybe in a worse situation.

When things were good, I had my snobby gym memberships (think Equinox), semi-nice road bikes, groceries from Whole Foods and weekends with friends at the latest and greatest sushi bars. As things progressed down hill, I found myself eating off the dollar menu, cooking lots of spaghetti and drinking more than usual.

I know this might not resonate for some of you. I'm thinking the type of person who bought a carbon TCR on a whim and has always had a credit score in the high 700's but let's just say there is a reason Wal-Mart won't tow you for sleeping in their parking lot; they know their demographic.


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## upstateSC-rider

nOOky said:


> Nowadays people that are "normal" weight look sickly to most people, because our view and perception of normal has become so skewed...


Absolutely agree, including the perception of normal sized portions...Most people would look at them and say it's not enough food, myself included most times. 



ColoradoMike said:


> My theory has a socio-economics basis. .


Very true, it's a fact that it's more expensive to eat healthy, but just because a person isn't well-to-do doesn't mean they have to over-eat (although it's much easier to with less expensive (read calorie-dense) foods).


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## Used2Run

You need the time, energy, and the knowledge to eat well on a strict diet. Not everybody has those 3 things. That's the big problem. most people don't have the energy or knowledge to cook after a long day of hard work. Also, lower economic status leads to me soda and alcohol. alcohol is very energy dense. you shouldn't have either if those in excess but if you can't afford vacation or fun stuff, drinking is a seemingly good alternative.


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## Jay Strongbow

I've given this a lot of though and have no answers.

Food? I think people see the past though road colored glasses. As a child in the late 60's and 70's when everyone was fairly skinny the way I remember it was we ate God awful food and plenty of it. And, very few people had any education on nutrition. Parent were not uncaring in general but were happy to serve their kids all you can eat Sugar Smacks and boloney sandwiches all day every day simply because they didn't know any better. And despite there being more junk food options now there and MANY more good food options too.

Lazy? yeah, often a factor but even a lot of the really active and athletic kids are lard arses compared to kids with similar activity levels of decades past.

Maybe we need to start smoking more like people did in years past? Seems to work in France.


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## velodog

Jay Strongbow said:


> Maybe we need to start smoking more like people did in years past? Seems to work in France.



View attachment 284987


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## ColoradoMike

Used2Run said:


> You need the time, energy, and the knowledge to eat well on a strict diet. Not everybody has those 3 things. That's the big problem. most people don't have the energy or knowledge to cook after a long day of hard work. Also, lower economic status leads to me soda and alcohol. alcohol is very energy dense. you shouldn't have either if those in excess but if you can't afford vacation or fun stuff, drinking is a seemingly good alternative.


What's with cyclists being big drinkers? I thought that was a hipster thing.

A good point about soda. I'd say wealthier people drink much less soda than poorer families.



Jay Strongbow said:


> I've given this a lot of though and have no answers.
> 
> Food? I think people see the past though road colored glasses. As a child in the late 60's and 70's when everyone was fairly skinny the way I remember it was we ate God awful food and plenty of it. And, very few people had any education on nutrition. Parent were not uncaring in general but were happy to serve their kids all you can eat Sugar Smacks and boloney sandwiches all day every day simply because they didn't know any better. And despite there being more junk food options now there and MANY more good food options too.
> 
> Lazy? yeah, often a factor but even a lot of the really active and athletic kids are lard arses compared to kids with similar activity levels of decades past.
> 
> Maybe we need to start smoking more like people did in years past? Seems to work in France.


France also held the title for most alcoholic in Europe for a good portion of time. People stereotype Russia with that and maybe they reclaimed that title but I know when I was in college, it was France.



Oxtox said:


> I'm 6' and 157 lbs.
> 
> I ride 120-140 miles/wk, swim, walk 1.2 miles a day during morning work breaks.
> 
> I eat copious amounts of a wide variety of foods, but focus on items that are wholesome, unprocessed, organic, grass-fed, gluten-free, etc etc.
> 
> a good percentage of my coworkers are uber-plump to disgustingly fat. they don't do jacksquat in terms of exercise, eat fast food at lunch on most days, and have pizza hut on speed-dial for dinner.
> 
> most likely the differences are just a random coincidence.


Someone give this guy the KOM jersey right now!!! Haha :thumbsup:


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## nealric

nOOky said:


> Thinking about this thread I realized that some here might feel offended. Even here, on a road biking enthusiast forum, the number of folks that list their weight above 200 lbs is startling. Threads abound on Clyde wheelsets, Atkins diet tips, etc. You would think that people that ride a road bike any amount would be fairly fit and trim. I'm not trying to offend anyone here, my point is that even among active road bike riders the battle to lose weight is a struggle.
> 
> Nowadays people that are "normal" weight look sickly to most people, because our view and perception of normal has become so skewed...


It is interesting how the idea of "normal" weight has seeped into the culture. About a year ago, I dropped from 5'11 175 lbs to 155 lbs. I also gained a good bit of muscle mass in the process and was in much better shape. Still, friends and relatives who have not seen me in a while ask me if I've lost weight due to illness. They think I'm too skinny, even though I'm pretty much smack in the middle of "normal" BMI.


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## steelbikerider

You saw people doing their own yardwork, I'm amazed. That's rare around here. People avoid the simple things that take calories too. Using an airblower instead of a broom when doing yardwork, walking the grocery cart to the pickup stand, taking the stairs, parking in the first open spot and walking instead of waiting for a spot closer to the door. I'm amazed at how many people at school will be walking with me and then take the elevator to go up or down 1 flight of stairs. I usually have to wait for them. People call me skinny when I take a half donut or only 1 homemade cookie at work but I'm 6' and 195. At at least I buy pants with a smaller waist than leg length.


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## Ventruck

Partly the food
Heavily the mentality to adapt/understand/challenge that change.

My dad literally postulated "working out does nothing for your health" only based upon recent deaths of relatives, with some dying early although active, and some lasting although lazy. Unless he picked up this weird dimension of nonchalant sarcasm, I think he was serious.


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## Seattleblu

Just curios - where do you all shop for food? Big chain? Local market?

I've been shopping more and more at Trader Joes. They seem to have better quality products (mostly no GMO) and prices are good, downright cheap comparatively. They sell less processed foods and the processed foods they do have don't have anything artificial in them. I do find that Costco has good, seasonal fruit and we do grow some of our own veggies.

We live in a "have it now" society and if that means a hamburger or hotdog now vs. waiting longer for a healthier meal, many will opt for the former. YMMV.

Oh and chocolate is still my favorite veggie...er, vice .


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## Dave Cutter

Ventruck said:


> .... My dad literally postulated "working out does nothing for your health" only based upon recent deaths of relatives....


Your Dad may have a point... if health is determined by longevity. More than one out of six people I went to high school with died before the 40th class reunion. Some of deceased took very good care of themselves. There is no apparent common thread for their short lives. There is some luck-of-the-draw as to our time here on Earth.

However... many of the still living in my class are too fat to dance, or play golf, shop with the wife, or play with the grandkids. To me an important part of health is being able to continue to bicycle. 

Sure... I'd like to live a long, long time too. But I really don't have all that much control of that. 



steelbikerider said:


> You saw people doing their own yardwork, I'm amazed. That's rare around here.


I live several miles from the bicycle paths. So I bicycle through a lot of urban-residential areas (poorer people) just off the main city roads. I'd guess they might not be able to afford landscape help.

But interestingly.... I also ride through a very well-to-do area and they (as well as many in my neighborhood) do contract out the yard work. However in the wealthy neighborhood I see bunches of walkers/joggers/ and other cyclist. But during the heat wave.... they exercise outside in the early morning hours before it gets hot.

I don't know... how much of the weight problem is cultural. Anecdotally it would appear that "rich people" take better care of themselves. Or... would it be that people who regularly make good decisions and undertake healthy habits generally also profit in more than one way.

I don't have answers.


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## Dave Cutter

Seattleblu said:


> Just curios - where do you all shop for food? Big chain? Local market?


Where ever food is sold. 

My Uncle has passed away but he grew tomatoes all his life and was very involved with a local co-op. His tomatoes ended up in every store you could name (_some even ended up at farm markets... as if they were home grown_). America's food distribution networks are 2nd to none. 

Good healthy food is everywhere. 

*Gregor Mendel* has done more to feed the world than any other human (_although... not directly_). The "science" of GMO... isn't the mental image that most people imagine. Seeds... are NOT made in factory's... or laboratories. Seeds... come from plants. 

It's normal to worry about the food supply. But the lab coats and evil scientists... are just TV characters. I think the people that are most removed from the origins of the food supply are the ones who worry the most about it. And that would make sense.


----------



## Dave Cutter

NievesBanning said:


> I never noticed they were actually smoking in the picture..i just thought he was giving some sort of support to him..


There was a time when I smoked and bicycled. I read somewhere that cycling clubs were catching on for weekend sport in China... as people abandon bikes for transportation. And that a standard rule with the clubs is an on-the-hour smoke break.


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## Seattleblu

Dave Cutter said:


> Where ever food is sold.
> 
> My Uncle has passed away but he grew tomatoes all his life and was very involved with a local co-op. His tomatoes ended up in every store you could name (_some even ended up at farm markets... as if they were home grown_). America's food distribution networks are 2nd to none.
> 
> Good healthy food is everywhere.
> 
> *Gregor Mendel* has done more to feed the world than any other human (_although... not directly_). The "science" of GMO... isn't the mental image that most people imagine. Seeds... are NOT made in factory's... or laboratories. Seeds... come from plants.
> 
> It's normal to worry about the food supply. But the lab coats and evil scientists... are just TV characters. I think the people that are most removed from the origins of the food supply are the ones who worry the most about it. And that would make sense.


Shhhhh...don't tell these folks.

Seed lab in Ankeny, Iowa helps corn-breeding work in Olivia, Minn. - The Prairie Star: Crop


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## 41ants

It's because of this misinformation being pumped out by the USDA
View attachment 285015


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## James6b

Our routine is after I play ball on Saturday I, being the house cook, hit the farmers market (this time of the year) then off to Trader Joes for any other fruits, most vegetables, and all the dairy, nuts, etc. My wife hits the big chain for all our staple items and I do my best to convince her not to get crap. Also, if I can do it myself I will try. Right now I'm doing everything except rasing my own meat, milling grains, or making cheese. We also have a small garden.

Getting healthier options to work with makes the difference since I'm pretty darn good in the kitchen. I admit I over eat but we all need at least one vice. I'm 39 and 5'10" & 169#. If I didn't watch what I was eating, quality wise, I think that would be 5-10 lbs higher even with the amount of exercise I get.


----------



## Notvintage

Mike T. said:


> We need pics!
> 
> 
> Unless they fit this observation; then don't bother.


hhaha. Careful what you wish for.


----------



## JoePAz

Dave Cutter said:


> While cycling through town in the recent heat wave I noticed many people doing yard work. Some of the housewife's were somewhat scantly dressed... which made me realize... America has a real obesity problem.
> 
> It is a common enough question: What is making everyone so fat?



Laziness... Food is cheap and plentiful and it much easier to eat than get off your butt and do something. Then it tends to snow ball where once you get fat you have a hard time moving. 

In the end life is series of choices and most people are fat due to choice. They don't say "Hey I want to be fat!", but they make choices that are easier and create a lifestyle where fatness reigns. Eating the right things in right quantities is harder than stuffing your face what ever tastes good. Hey burgers and fries with thick shake for lunch is really yummy, but eat it ever day and you will get fat. It is easier sit on the couch with bag of chips at watch TdF than head out and 20-30 miles after work too. 

So too many people taking the "easy" choices rather than the harder ones. Those of use that chose spend time on a bicycle are Not choosing the easy way, but the hard way. Plus once we spend any time on the bike at all we realize how much is sucks to be fat and heavy.

I am 5'7" and 155. There was a time when I was 200lbs. Now how did I get there? By eating poorly (anything that tasted good) and not exercising. It was a slow gradual process that took years and I felt I was destined for it. However I took up cycling and really like it. That caused me to focus more getting in shape so I could ride more. Also began working on portion control. So I lost weight and gained alot of fitness. That was 12 years ago. Since I have maintained the weight, but a couple years ago gained a little back and was not riding any more. So I got back in to riding and started eating better. At 39 now I am eating better foods and more fit than ever. I can't really break the 150 barrier, but I am ok with that. In the last couple months I have been maintaining weight, but getting leaner. So basically adding muscle mass. Anyway all this takes work to do. 

Being fat is not about one bad meal or missing exercise on one day. It about doing that as lifestyle.


----------



## JasonB176

aureliajulia said:


> Yes, it's not so entertaining when you are questioned by said fat people, and respond with the obvious: avoid overrating or being full, count calories. People get rather offended when that's mentioned. Gasp! No! It's not my fault!
> 
> Yeah, right.


I think you're on to something. People refusing to take responsibility for being fat. I was FAT three years and 45 pounds ago. I was lazy and using every excuse in the book. I finally got off my ass, started eating right and exercising and the weight's been gone for over 2 years.

My metabolism, my genes, my schedule, my depression, the list goes on. I'm sure there are legitimate cases where a person can't help their weight but not everyone of the skyrocketing numbers of the obese fall into this category.


----------



## dnice

Many good points in this thread. I can only add that there are many who simply lack the knowledge on how to shop, cook and exercise well. I know it sounds crazy, but you would not believe the discussions I have abut eating and diet with some of my colleagues. One guy just insists that healthy food is too expensive. I shared with him my budget for eating three healthy meals for $15 dollars a day (even shopping at Whole Foods as I do) and he just didn't get it. Another guy (who has a massive gut,) just wont give up the big, heavy weightlifting workout and do cardio--says it's crap. 

What I've found is that being healthy and light takes discipline, but nowhere near the discipline that most think it does. A few small changes in dietary choices and workout can be huge for most, but the knowledge is just lacking.


----------



## velodog

Vegetables is what food eats.


----------



## anotherguy

dnice said:


> . Another guy (who has a massive gut,)


Rude. 



> What I've found is that being healthy and light takes discipline, but nowhere near the discipline that most think it does. A few small changes in dietary choices and workout can be huge for most, but the knowledge is just lacking.


It takes A LOT of discipline until it becomes your normal life style (see quote below), then it takes a little bit to avoid the cravings that we all have from time to time.


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## spade2you

velodog said:


> Vegetables is what food eats.


----------



## mtnroadie

*What is making everyone so fat?*

:idea:

View attachment 285170


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## Burnette

*Cocain Cookies*

Free will, personal choice.
People, unless they have a note from their doctor, are fat due the the choices they make.
The fact that there are TV commercials and movies or whatever that push poor choices, nothing, I mean nothing absolves people of their own personal responsibilities.
I like action movies, but haven't been in a Ninja fight, nor have I gone looking for one.
A friends brother went to a steak house with a group of us and he went back that food bar three times. Fourth trip, back at the table, he started heaving. Told my friend that's the last outing with that guy.
Do you know how much food you have to eat to maintain an extra hundred pounds of body weight? You have to literally work at it.
I'm around big people, they plan ahead for food, it's within arms reach and they do crazy stuff like eat a whole package of Oreos.
Don't try and close all the McDonalds in the world, get those who have a psychological issues the real help they need.
I live in the same world as them and it affects me not, weight wise.


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## anotherguy

People even manage to mess up healthier foods. (Let's serve some brocolli with our ocean of cheese sauce). I honestly think part of it is that people don't cook any more. If you learn to cook and work with food and seasonings a little bit, you can learn how to produce healthy food that you like. The more you cook the more you are willing to try new things.

More and more, if you don't know how or unwilling to cook you will end up with incredibly calorie dense food. I read the book Racing Weight a couple months ago and the sheer volume of references to studies on how people eat was impressive and shed a lot of light on why people make the choices they do. A lot of is flat out common sense when you read it, but things you don't think about. 

One of the things that stuck out to me is that people decide how much they are going to eat before they ever pick up a fork. They don't eat until they aren't hungry, they eat more or less based on whatever volume they self selected subconsciously. That also plays into people eating everything on their plate, which in restaurants will often have you eating two full servings of an entree calorie wise.


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## dnice

By request:

The Whole Foods $17 Dollar/day (over 6 Days) diet..(I lied the first time, not $15 per day).

Asparagus	$4
Salmon (1lb)	$10
Turbot (1lb)	$10
Chicken Kabob Skewers W/Bell peppers and onions (1lb) $10
Dozen Eggs	$4
Soy Milk, Half gallon	$3
Whole wheat Half loaf	$2
Fage Greek yogurt (35 oz)	$6
Organic just a tad sweet Iced tea (gallon) $6
Quinoa (1LB)	$4.50
Jelly	$2

That's 2 eggs, 1 slice of toast, a pat of butter and coffee each day for breakfast.
Lunch is Chicken Wrap or Salad Bar (Tofu/other mixed goodies) @ 7/Day = $42 per week
Dinner is 1/2 lb of either fish or chicken, with quinoa and asparagus
Snack is 4-5 ounces of the Yogurt (with a touch of honey)

That's $103 bucks total for 6 Days of good, healthy food. 

Sundays I try to eat what I want, but it still usually doesn't exceed $20 bucks on that day. I get my Key Lime Pie on Sundays--Yeah!


----------



## velodog

dnice said:


> By request:
> 
> The Whole Foods $17 Dollar/day (over 6 Days) diet..(I lied the first time, not $15 per day).
> 
> Asparagus	$4
> Salmon (1lb)	$10
> Turbot (1lb)	$10
> Chicken Kabob Skewers W/Bell peppers and onions (1lb) $10
> Dozen Eggs	$4
> Soy Milk, Half gallon	$3
> Whole wheat Half loaf	$2
> Fage Greek yogurt (35 oz)	$6
> Organic just a tad sweet Iced tea (gallon) $6
> Quinoa (1LB)	$4.50
> Jelly	$2
> 
> That's 2 eggs, 1 slice of toast, a pat of butter and coffee each day for breakfast.
> Lunch is Chicken Wrap or Salad Bar (Tofu/other mixed goodies) @ 7/Day = $42 per week
> Dinner is 1/2 lb of either fish or chicken, with quinoa and asparagus
> Snack is 4-5 ounces of the Yogurt (with a touch of honey)
> 
> That's $103 bucks total for 6 Days of good, healthy food.
> 
> Sundays I try to eat what I want, but it still usually doesn't exceed $20 bucks on that day. I get my Key Lime Pie on Sundays--Yeah!


What about pizza and candy bars?


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## spade2you

I've never really totaled what I spend a week on food. Most of my food comes from Costco and I'd be surprised if my daily diet exceeds $10-11 per day. 

Dinner tonight was a can of Healhy Choice chicken and rice. I got a bunch of them when they came out to be about $0.60 per can.


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## Dave Cutter

Seattleblu said:


> Shhhhh...don't tell these folks.


Humor? Joking aside you realize that those places are not seed factory's... right. Corn seed... comes from ears of corn.... and nowhere else. Seed corn (seed produced, and hybridized for growing corn crops) are produced at seed farms. 

Monsanto... has what many will say is a well earned bad reputation. As they sued neighboring corn growers for patent violations as if they had stole pollen... from other farmers that had paid (DEARLY) for. Which was of course... the hybrid corn seed. 

But the press hasn't been kind.... or even very educational about what GMO crops really are.

*Don't get me wrong. I am NOT saying the GMO crops are OK. Or that they aren't making you fat.* But hybrid crops have been around for much longer than America.... let alone fat Americans.

I am afraid the original "corn" seed that native Americans shared with the pilgrims may have been lost forever. However... they think have located the plant of origin (in South America) that naïve Americans bred and hybridized to create that north American corn.

It must have taken centuries using only old fashion farming methods. I remember back in school (OK a half century ago) seeing a back-bred version of what was called Indian Corn. A small colored ear of corn with kernels (seeds) the size of popcorn.


----------



## Wyville

JasonB176 said:


> My metabolism, my genes, my schedule, my depression, the list goes on. I'm sure there are legitimate cases where a person can't help their weight but not everyone of the skyrocketing numbers of the obese fall into this category.


There are very few legitimate cases of people being unable to control their weight. The biggest excuse "I have a slow metabolism" is utter and complete nonsense as obese people generally have a higher metabolism than people at a healthy weight. Genes too rarely play a role. It's inactivity combined with a high caloric intake and the addictive properties of high caloric food that combine to become a lethal cocktail. Especially in cases where there is an underlying problem like a depression.

The NEAT I mentioned earlier is one of those things people are unaware of, but it makes all the difference in the world. I remember one study where they monitored people of various weights and it had one participant who kept eating a lot and never gained weight. Only a careful study of the video footage revealed the guy was never actually sitting completely still. Because he moved around constantly he burned a significant amount of extra calories during the day.


----------



## shakeshakeshake

I think many peoples jobs were a lot more physically intense back then as well. People in cities tend to be slimmer, I think this is because you're more likely to walk around to get places than to use a car like in rural ones. 

People think nothing of eating at least 3 snacks throughout the day, that will put you 1000 calories over budget in a lot of cases.


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## NJBiker72

shakeshakeshake said:


> I think many peoples jobs were a lot more physically intense back then as well. People in cities tend to be slimmer, I think this is because you're more likely to walk around to get places than to use a car like in rural ones.
> 
> People think nothing of eating at least 3 snacks throughout the day, that will put you 1000 calories over budget in a lot of cases.


The walking is definitely an issue. Being back in the city has definitely helped me as I walk to work from the train. The suburban job was an hour and a half drive followed by walking ten feet to my office.


----------



## vagabondcyclist

Pizza.


----------



## SauronHimself

Dave, let's get the scientific terms straight first. Unless you have an explanation for observable facts that has made predictions and been tested through experiment and later peer reviewed, you don't have a theory. You have at best a hypothesis. I know I'm splitting hairs, but if people split hairs more often, we wouldn't see so many scientific illiterates spouting ignorance like, "Well evolution is _just_ a theory.". Yeah, so is gravity, optics, electromagnetism, etc. However, I digress.

The availability of cheap, carb-laden foods is one of the biggest culprits aside from increasingly sedentary lifestyles. The government regulation of high fructose corn syrup as a replacement for cane sugar began this disastrous slope. HFCS metabolizes differently than regular sugar and has been shown to cause more weight gain than regular sugar. While it may sound backwards, another reason for obesity is that people are obsessed with eating little saturated fat. Fatty foods fill you up a lot sooner than high-carb foods, so you end up eating fewer calories overall. Fat also supplies you with more than enough sustained energy for daily activities, and it keeps the nervous system healthy. It's no surprise when you see these ADD/ADHD kids switch from Fruit Loops in the morning to bacon and eggs that they suddenly start behaving and concentrating without any weight gain (sometimes weight loss even). Plainly put, people are eating diets way too high on the glycemic index these days, and if they switched to low glycemic index foods, they'd see the pounds melt away.


----------



## 41ants

Let me guess.. You don't subscribe to calories in vs calories out... Lets Throw thermodynamics out the Window because apparently not all calories are created equal


----------



## Wyville

SauronHimself said:


> The availability of cheap, carb-laden foods is one of the biggest culprits aside from increasingly sedentary lifestyles. The government regulation of high fructose corn syrup as a replacement for cane sugar began this disastrous slope. HFCS metabolizes differently than regular sugar and has been shown to cause more weight gain than regular sugar. While it may sound backwards, another reason for obesity is that people are obsessed with eating little saturated fat. Fatty foods fill you up a lot sooner than high-carb foods, so you end up eating fewer calories overall. Fat also supplies you with more than enough sustained energy for daily activities, and it keeps the nervous system healthy. It's no surprise when you see these ADD/ADHD kids switch from Fruit Loops in the morning to bacon and eggs that they suddenly start behaving and concentrating without any weight gain (sometimes weight loss even). Plainly put, people are eating diets way too high on the glycemic index these days, and if they switched to low glycemic index foods, they'd see the pounds melt away.


Fatty foods also stimulate the reward system in the brain and hence are a factor in food addiction. Both high sugar and high fat content is a problem since the human body has evolved to take in such foods when available in order to have reserves for periods of food shortage. That of course no longer happens in Western society and thus the reward system has become a liability.

Although initially fatty food might fill you up quickly, the body will get the signal it was a good thing and tell you to do it again. If such foods are eaten frequently the body will adjust in the same way it does with any other addiction. The body becomes, for instance, leptin resistant. Leptin, a hormone produced in fat tissue, is an important signal for producing a feeling of satiety. Obese people have so many fat cells that produce the hormone that they will become resistant to its effect.

The adjustments the body makes is an essential factor in weight issues. Your physiology adapts constantly. I myself, for instance, can't each much bacon at all. Its fat content is too high because my body has adjusted to a low fat diet. A few years ago I could eat much more simply because my body was used to it.


----------



## Wyville

41ants said:


> Let me guess.. You don't subscribe to calories in vs calories out... Lets Throw thermodynamics out the Window because apparently not all calories are created equal


It's not a physical equation. Calories in and out can't be calculated in a straightforward fashion. Nuts for instance are pretty high caloric, yet the digestive systems has problems breaking down the cells containing the oil. So although you might eat a certain amount of calories worth of nuts, only some of those calories are taken up by the body.

Also the form in which calories are eventually metabolized differs. Complex forms will have to be broken down by the body at the cost of energy. Fructose is more easily taken up by the body.

So the same amount of calories in nuts or fructose will have a different effect on the body.


----------



## 41ants

Wyville said:


> It's not a physical equation. Calories in and out can't be calculated in a straightforward fashion. Nuts for instance are pretty high caloric, yet the digestive systems has problems breaking down the cells containing the oil. So although you might eat a certain amount of calories worth of nuts, only some of those calories are taken up by the body.
> 
> Also the form in which calories are eventually metabolized differs. Complex forms will have to be broken down by the body at the cost of energy. Fructose is more easily taken up by the body.
> 
> So the same amount of calories in nuts or fructose will have a different effect on the body.


I agree 100%. I subscribe to some of the theories presented by Gary Taubes. Great books


----------



## Wyville

41ants said:


> I agree 100%. I subscribe to some of the theories presented by Gary Taubes. Great books


Don't know him, never read any of his books. I just know a little about this stuff because I have an interest in food (as I train a lot) and enjoy seeing shows about fat people trying to loose weight ( :wink5: ). Mostly though because I have a background in adaptation physiology. Although I specialized in animal physiology, I did do some course work on human physiology as well and followed a few guest lectures by people working on obesity and obesity related problems. It's always fascinating to see how the body adapts to changing diets.


----------



## MotobecaneLeChampion

I once read a compelling explanation that high-fructose corn syrup is the culprit. (Your body metabolizes fructose differently than sugar.) Another claimed that modern-day wheat, which is highly hybridized and has a sky-high glycemic index, is the culprit. Maybe a combination of the two is to blame.


----------



## sdeeer

MotobecaneLeChampion said:


> I once read a compelling explanation that high-fructose corn syrup is the culprit. (*Your body metabolizes fructose differently than sugar*.) Another claimed that modern-day wheat, which is highly hybridized and has a sky-high glycemic index, is the culprit. Maybe a combination of the two is to blame.


Ish....to the bold above. Nutrition & Metabolism | Full text | Fructose in perspective

Whole Health Source: How Bad is Fructose? David Despain Interviews Dr. John Sievenpiper


Whole Health Source: Fructose vs. Glucose Showdown

Whole Health Source: Is Sugar Fattening?

Whole Health Source: US Fructose Consumption Trends

For your perusing pleasures.....


----------



## Creakyknees

Dave Cutter said:


> What is making everyone so fat


this week: leftover birthday cake and an extra order of chicken fried steak with cream gravy.

mmmmm cream gravy!


----------



## barnott

My wife and I have almost entirely eliminated processed foods from our diet. Being a lifelong vegetarian, this means we eat a lot of fruits, vegetables, nuts and grains. The raw food we buy is as much organic as we can find. 

This was all in response to our shared fear of GMO's. My wife is 18 weeks pregnant and I can't, in good faith, prepare food for her and our baby that puts them at risk. However, the unintended result was neither of us crave the food we once over indulged in. It's more expensive, yes. It takes much more effort to prepare (but I'm getting quicker). 

For the last 2 months I've been working out on the elliptical trainer for 90 mins in zone 2 5 days a week. This bored me. So I bought a bike last week. My workouts are much more enjoyable! This forum is such a huge help to me. And I'm really excited to find this particular thread. The nutrition part is complex and is much more of a life change than committing to yourself that you'll ride for 2 hours. So I have learned a few things here from people who are doing it. 

Thanks for all the great, usable information.


----------



## Newnan3

barnott said:


> My wife and I have almost entirely eliminated processed foods from our diet. Being a lifelong vegetarian, this means we eat a lot of fruits, vegetables, nuts and grains. The raw food we buy is as much organic as we can find.
> 
> This was all in response to our shared fear of GMO's. My wife is 18 weeks pregnant and I can't, in good faith, prepare food for her and our baby that puts them at risk. However, the unintended result was neither of us crave the food we once over indulged in. It's more expensive, yes. It takes much more effort to prepare (but I'm getting quicker).
> 
> For the last 2 months I've been working out on the elliptical trainer for 90 mins in zone 2 5 days a week. This bored me. So I bought a bike last week. My workouts are much more enjoyable! This forum is such a huge help to me. And I'm really excited to find this particular thread. The nutrition part is complex and is much more of a life change than committing to yourself that you'll ride for 2 hours. So I have learned a few things here from people who are doing it.
> 
> Thanks for all the great, usable information.



I hope you'll share your food knowledge with us! The biking part is easy for me...it's the diet or what to eat knowledge that I need more of.


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## phoehn9111

Thanks sdeer for the overwhelmingly technical info. What scares me, and what I
still do not understand, having drastically reduced or eliminated sugar (generalized)
from my diet, is fruit still ok to eat, and, if so, why is it any different from HFCS
since fructose is in fact a combination of glucose and fructose?????


----------



## love4himies

phoehn9111 said:


> is fruit still ok to eat, and, if so, why is it any different from HFCS
> since fructose is in fact a combination of glucose and fructose?????


Good question. Always something that's on my mind as I'm a huge fruit eater, especially after my rides and jogs.


----------



## looigi

In days of yore, the common name for fructose was fruit sugar. Many fruits have higher percentage fructose to glucose than typical HFCS. Agave nectar seems popular lately, yet is can be nearly 100% fructose. And of course bee honey is 1.22:1 fructose:glucose which isn't dissimilar from the most common HFCS which is 1.31:1. 

The benefit of eating fruit is that it contains other beneficial nutrients rather than just sugar, but it still contains lots of sugar (and fructose if that concerns you). Fruit juice has garnered some disfavor recently because it still has lots of sugar, but some of the other beneficial components of fruit have been removed. Still better than soda...

It's kind of like calories. Calories are all the same. It's what they're contained in and what accompanies them in different foods that are different.


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## looigi

Oh really? "Calorie: (symbol: Cal, equiv: kcal), is the amount of energy needed to raise the temperature of one kilogram of water by one degree Celsius. "

Like I said, all Calories are equivalent (the energy required to raise 1 kg of water 1 deg C). It's what they are contained in and what accompanies them that are different.

Both 110 gm of fat and 250 gm of sugar contain 1000 Calories, that is enough energy to raise 100 kg of water 10 deg C. The effect on the body of eating 110gm of fat vs 250gm of sugar will be different despite the fact that they contain equivalent Calories of energy. It's the fat and the sugar that's different, not the Calories.


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## Racer p

Totally agree. Low fat diet was the beginning of the end. They took the fat out and added sugar and worse high fructose corn syrup. Now everything has high fructose corn syrup in it, most people work in front of a computer and few American companies offer flex time so that you can get some exercise in, it is work work work, no time to cook and no time to exercise. As for the kids, it is not all video games and TV fault, you just can't leave your kids outside like you used to, too many creeps.


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## Cinelli 82220

*Denial denial denial*

One of the many women's magazines my GF gets has an article about how to respond to people telling you that you are fat, and how to be comfortable with your "plus size" body. (Their words!)

That's got to be 90% of the problem. Nobody wants to admit that they are fat. Women call themselves "curvy" or proudly say they have a "big booty", guys laugh about having a beer gut. 
Go to Walmart and look at all the people on scooters. There's nothing wrong with those people, they are just lazy slobs. There were no scooters only a few years ago, yet people were able to shop and feed themselves. But now they need a handicapped spot next to the front door and a scooter so they can load up on Coke and potato chips. Get rid of the scooters, a bit of walking would do these porcine blobs a world of good.


----------



## Dave Cutter

JoePAz said:


> Laziness... Food is cheap and plentiful and it much easier to eat than get off your butt and do something. Then it tends to snow ball where once you get fat you have a hard time moving.
> 
> In the end life is series of choices and most people are fat due to choice. They don't say "Hey I want to be fat!", but they make choices that are easier and create a lifestyle where fatness reigns. Eating the right things in right quantities is harder than stuffing your face what ever tastes good......


I agree. 

I do believe that most of the theory's presented (_if not all of them_) do have merit. I think there are healthy diets... and there are fattening diets. People can eat healthy... and be fat... or be thin and seemingly fit and healthy while eating a poor diet. 

We (or at least I) have no cultural wisdom when it comes to diet. My grandmother cooked with lard... and preferred the oleo (an early margarine made with lard with a yellow dye) to butter spread on her slices of white bread. My grandparents used LOTS of sugar, and ate plenty of meat and potatoes. But they didn't eat very large portions. And they didn't eat for entertainment. They nourished themselves at mealtimes. But a sugar cookie with coffee was standard fair at grandmas too. Of course I didn't drink coffee as a child so I was given Pepsi. 

But no one got fat. We ate crapola more or less... (I've joked I can remember the year salads were invented) but we didn't eat enough of the bad stuff to make a difference. A little lard... makes a body feel satisfied. A lot of lard... makes you fat. A little sugar makes a body energized.... a lot of sweets is a different story. 

I think everyone can benefit by eating better, healthier, smarter. But to be thin... we just need to eat less. IMHO.


----------



## Wyville

phoehn9111 said:


> Thanks sdeer for the overwhelmingly technical info. What scares me, and what I
> still do not understand, having drastically reduced or eliminated sugar (generalized)
> from my diet, is fruit still ok to eat, and, if so, why is it any different from HFCS
> since fructose is in fact a combination of glucose and fructose?????


Of course you can still eat fruit. The problem with HFCS is that it is highly concentrated, so high that you would have a problem eating the equivalent of fruit. You need sugars anyway, just like fat. 

Sugar and fat aren't evil, you just need them in moderation. The problem is that in processed foods the concentrations have been elevated _because_ they are addictive. Companies want to sell as much as possible and making it "nicer" or giving it "more flavour" is part of the strategy.


----------



## Wyville

barnott said:


> My wife and I have almost entirely eliminated processed foods from our diet. Being a lifelong vegetarian, this means we eat a lot of fruits, vegetables, nuts and grains. The raw food we buy is as much organic as we can find.


We live quite similarly, although I'm not a vegetarian but my wife is. As a consequence I eat very little meat and have found it a great way to reduce my calorie intake. 

We also greatly enjoy making our own food. We love pizza and every Saturday we use fresh flower from the mill to make dough and use fresh vegetables and vegetarian cheese to make a pizza full of flavour, yet healthy when compared to the fast food alternatives.

I think it's a great way to become more conscious about what we eat. By enjoying cooking and picking out ingredients carefully, you naturally start to avoid processed food because they're just not appetising (especially when you read the label).


----------



## den bakker

Wyville said:


> We also greatly enjoy making our own food. We love pizza and every Saturday we use fresh flower from the mill to make dough and use fresh vegetables and vegetarian cheese to make a pizza full of flavour, yet healthy when compared to the fast food alternatives.


Agreed. Tulip pizza is the best!


----------



## barnott

Cinelli 82220 said:


> One of the many women's magazines my GF gets has an article about how to respond to people telling you that you are fat, and how to be comfortable with your "plus size" body. (Their words!)
> 
> That's got to be 90% of the problem. Nobody wants to admit that they are fat. Women call themselves "curvy" or proudly say they have a "big booty", guys laugh about having a beer gut.
> Go to Walmart and look at all the people on scooters. There's nothing wrong with those people, they are just lazy slobs. There were no scooters only a few years ago, yet people were able to shop and feed themselves. But now they need a handicapped spot next to the front door and a scooter so they can load up on Coke and potato chips. Get rid of the scooters, a bit of walking would do these porcine blobs a world of good.


I'm not sure what the expression of anger at people who suffer from obesity adds to the conversation... But frankly, I think it's insensitive at best.


----------



## love4himies

Wyville said:


> We live quite similarly, although I'm not a vegetarian but my wife is. As a consequence I eat very little meat and have found it a great way to reduce my calorie intake.
> 
> We also greatly enjoy making our own food. We love pizza and every Saturday we use fresh flower from the mill to make dough and use fresh vegetables and vegetarian cheese to make a pizza full of flavour, yet healthy when compared to the fast food alternatives.
> 
> I think it's a great way to become more conscious about what we eat. By enjoying cooking and picking out ingredients carefully, you naturally start to avoid processed food because they're just not appetising (especially when you read the label).


That's wonderful. Once you start cooking from scratch, you realize how horrible processed food is.


----------



## barnott

Wyville said:


> I think it's a great way to become more conscious about what we eat. By enjoying cooking and picking out ingredients carefully, you naturally start to avoid processed food because they're just not appetising (especially when you read the label).


Agreed! It sounds like you and your wife have really taken charge. I admire that! We are working toward that ourselves. It takes an honest effort. For us it's been a incremental process. At first we were juicing 2 meals a day, but that wasn't realistic or healthy. So I continue to read, and look for advice. I bake all our bread from scratch. We received a bread machine for our wedding and the thing works hard for us. 

The bottom line for us is that with the right attitude and approach this could be an enjoyable life change. And it has been. Getting back into cycling has made the workouts a blast. When I was 15 my dad got into cycling and bought himself a Serotta road bike and me a Celo. But the bike got left at home when I went off to college. I never road it again. After 22 years, I have the fever once again! Holy cow! Has bike technology come a long way...


----------



## Wyville

den bakker said:


> Agreed. Tulip pizza is the best!


LOL! I have made that mistake so often and still keep doing it! My English is pretty good but I keep messing up with the flower... uh, flour. 



barnott said:


> Agreed! It sounds like you and your wife have really taken charge. I admire that! We are working toward that ourselves. It takes an honest effort. For us it's been a incremental process. At first we were juicing 2 meals a day, but that wasn't realistic or healthy. So I continue to read, and look for advice. I bake all our bread from scratch. We received a bread machine for our wedding and the thing works hard for us.
> 
> The bottom line for us is that with the right attitude and approach this could be an enjoyable life change. And it has been. Getting back into cycling has made the workouts a blast. When I was 15 my dad got into cycling and bought himself a Serotta road bike and me a Celo. But the bike got left at home when I went off to college. I never road it again. After 22 years, I have the fever once again! Holy cow! Has bike technology come a long way...


You should try kneading by hand, very therapeutic! Then you can also get the bread in any shape you like. 

For us it's about more than just eating better. It's about living and enjoying life. We currently both work as academics and it's a pretty demanding career. We love it, but hope that in a few years time we have saved enough to move to a house near the beach, work less and train more. Just a very simple lifestyle with few gadgets and luxuries, just those (like the bike) that really contribute to health and happiness. I'm amazed at how little we need and how affordable life can be even with all the fresh fruits and vegetables.

Like you said, it's a process that requires some work but is well worth it. 

Looks like you got yourself a nice bike (the one in your signature). I can imagine that's something very different from 22 years ago. (Although I have a soft spot for classic bikes as well.)


----------



## barnott

Wyville said:


> Looks like you got yourself a nice bike (the one in your signature). I can imagine that's something very different from 22 years ago. (Although I have a soft spot for classic bikes as well.)


I've been meaning to get into kneading by hand. There are some artisan breads I want to make. 

Thanks! Yes, it's quite an advancement from my Celo. I find myself wanting to speed all over! LOL


----------



## .je

Dave Cutter said:


> I think everyone can benefit by eating better, healthier, smarter. But to be thin... we just need to eat less. IMHO.


There's a lot more to it than that, Cutter. This video:






I can only compare today to how it was when I was little, but that's biased, because my folks and grand-folks were still new to Canada, fresh from the farm, didn't really speak great English to shop, and had a HUGE garden out back of the house: 

We didn't snack on anything, ever. When we ate anything it wasn't sugary or out of a colourful box. There was not fruit 'juice', no convenient juice boxes, no cases and cases of pop that cost $3 on sale every week, and no matter how much we begged and whined and cried and broke things, no video games. Almost nobody else around had any of this either, except perhaps video games.

Even the food from the store tasted more like food than sugar and wheat filler, which is what people largely complain about the food now. And you know, they're right about that. Decades of that add up, IME, to a less healthy person than otherwise, IME also, and I'm not an expert even if I insist that I am one, children don't physically develop a healthy system and metabolism if they sit all the time, and eat as close to malnourished as we can legally - and, sadly, _ethically _- do to them, resulting in adults that aren't in good condition or healthy. 

That's just my opinion, I could be wrong (pretty sure I'm not though!)


----------



## cyclisme!

ColoradoMike said:


> My theory has a socio-economics basis. We've all heard the line, the rich get richer and the poor keep getting poorer and in this case, I believe the rich have the means to remain healthy and the poor are just trying to survive. Some of this might be assumptions because we all know the rich guy drinking 5 nights a week or the poor family very involved in sports but these are the exceptions.
> 
> I feel I can really speak to this topic because I was raised poor, attended a very well-known university, landed a well paying job 'for a time' and pretty much lost everything and now I am back to where I started, maybe in a worse situation.
> 
> When things were good, I had my snobby gym memberships (think Equinox), semi-nice road bikes, groceries from Whole Foods and weekends with friends at the latest and greatest sushi bars. As things progressed down hill, I found myself eating off the dollar menu, cooking lots of spaghetti and drinking more than usual.
> 
> I know this might not resonate for some of you. I'm thinking the type of person who bought a carbon TCR on a whim and has always had a credit score in the high 700's but let's just say there is a reason Wal-Mart won't tow you for sleeping in their parking lot; they know their demographic.


Your story parallels mine. I used to have a professional job in engineering. Had memberships at both a gym and a climbing gym. Rode 5 days a week. I had excellent healthcare and used it a number of times (have had none for 6 years now). Shopped at whole foods. Went out often to high-quality restaurants...always good fresh food. Portland is a foodie's delight, but these little gourmet meals are spendy as hell. 

Over the last 6 years however, I am obliged to shop at Safeway or Winco. I can't afford organic, non-gmo. I can't buy the $8 local cheese, I have to buy the $3 cheese made somewhere in Illinois. Nor the $5 good bread, I get the $1 pack of bleached enriched English muffins. Forget the $3 organic avocado, I get the $1 one that is nowhere near ripe. Cage-free hormone-free eggs? I wish... Like you say, pasta features a few days a week.
I just started a new job which ties me up 13 hrs/day with commute. It's the first job I could find in 3 years. It has put an abrupt end to my great cycling form. I can see that the new norm for me, as a technical but non-professional, will be I work many more hours for half my old pay, which leaves me little time to ride, and I will rarely summon the motivation for the gym this winter. I've already gone from a few beers a week, to a 1-2 beers a day, to 2-3 pints if out at a pub. That will have to stop to avoid getting a gut and alcoholism. But I can see how it starts for so many...


----------



## looigi

FWIW: Lab animals are getting fatter too: Animals Getting Fatter Too : Discovery News : Discovery News


----------



## velodog

looigi said:


> FWIW: Lab animals are getting fatter too: Animals Getting Fatter Too : Discovery News : Discovery News


Where the hell is PETA when you really need them?


----------



## marcusc

IMO it's attributable partly to the portions and accessibility of crap food that we have in North America.

I will be coming home tomorrow from a one month tour of Europe, where its extremely rare to see someone who is overweight. here are my observations:

1) Portions are noticeably smaller. At restaurants, you'll get a proper portion of meat (200g or so), a small side of carbs and some veggies. Just enough to be satisfied, not stuffed as I typically am leaving a resto back home.

2) coke (and other soft drinks) are basically a luxury item. A small glass of coke in a restaurant will cost 3€, a beer will cost the same and a water will be cheaper/free. There's no such thing as a 7/11 big gulp. The McDonald's large drink is also the NA medium or so, and all junk food is priced high, in general. Fast food is also very expensive, a mcds run cost me $14, or 10€. At home, it'd be half that.

3) finally, cycling is a widely used method of transport, I'm never alone on my morning jogs, and people are overall much more self conscious about their weight and health. It's overall a different mentality, with both males and females wanting to be in shape.

obviously on a cycling forum, we will mostly be aligned with this principle, however the general NA population is not IMO.


----------



## tom_h

marcusc said:


> ... people are overall much more self conscious about their weight and health. It's overall a different mentality, with both males and females wanting to be in shape...


yet, they cigarette smoke like there's no tomorrow ... especially in some southern european countries.

Smoking is reputed to cause appetite suppression, I wonder how much of a factor that is in the generally lower BMI there? 

Claimed rates of smoking for men,
Prevalence of tobacco consumption - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Greece 63% (!)
France & Germany 37%
UK & Spain 36%
Italy 33%
USA 26% (with wide regional differences)


----------



## tom_h

View attachment 285941
Time to trot out a pic of our favorite euro cycling fan ;-)

If this guy had a nickel for every occurrence of his image ...

View attachment 285941







View attachment 285941

View attachment 285941


----------



## goldsbar

upstateSC-rider said:


> Air conditioning, that's the problem.
> Ever work outside all day? What do you crave afterwards? Water, fruits, small meals...definitely not going to a buffet.
> Being inside an A/C building all day, to me, is akin to being indoors during the winter, craving all kinds of comfort food.


This sounds sort of crazy, but it actually makes some sense.

This used to seem like a US problem but not anymore, it's everywhere. People just don't care. When I grew up, they made fun of fat kids (not saying this was good). Now, half of the kids are fat. Parents usually worse. Very little attempt by most people to lose weight and few non-immigrants have truly manual labor type jobs.


----------



## goldsbar

MTBryan01 said:


> 6) Stigma - Being thin, especially as a guy, is looked down upon in many parts of the country. I am personally thin and tall and get crap weekly about being 'too skinny'. Someone just told me yesterday that I need to eat more cheese burgers. Guys are expected to either be overweight, or bulked up. It doesn't matter that I can ride my bike at 50+ faster and longer than most 20 year olds, that I never get sick, have great sleep habits and don't have any symptoms that most guys my age have. Actually, I've been bulkier in my life (more muscular) and I personally think being thin with more aerobic capacity is overall healthier. But hey, what do I know!


Read some of the power lifting and strength training boards. Many a poster will advise drinking a gallon of milk/day to get more bulk so you can lift more. Sure you can lift more, but seriously? Very few actually cut back afterwards. They have themselves convinced they're gaining lean body mass and then you see a picture...


----------



## upstateSC-rider

goldsbar said:


> This sounds sort of crazy, but it actually makes some sense.
> 
> This used to seem like a US problem but not anymore, it's everywhere. People just don't care. When I grew up, they made fun of fat kids (not saying this was good). Now, half of the kids are fat. Parents usually worse. Very little attempt by most people to lose weight and few non-immigrants have truly manual labor type jobs.


I know but when you think about it I think there's merit.
An article on a study.



> One of the most intriguing factors listed in the study is the “reduction in variability of ambient temperature.” The widespread use of central heating and air conditioning means that most homes and offices are now kept at a relatively constant temperature year-round. Allison’s group found evidence that this causes the body to expend less energy, because it does not have to work to warm up or cool down, potentially leading to increased fat stores. In the South, where obesity rates are the highest in the nation, homes with central air increased from 37 to 70 percent between 1978 and 1990.


----------



## Dave Cutter

gandy-dancer said:


> *Occam's Razor, anyone? *
> 
> There have been steaming heaps of slavishly regurgitated theories and hackneyed, politically-correct euphamisms posited as answers to the OP's original question.
> 
> I'm convinced that it boils down to gluttony, sloth and - *crucially* - the fact that the majority of people blame their (and/or their family's) health on everybody else and everything else instead of admitting they're unhealthy because (and *ONLY* because) of their own self-selected priorities.


Occam's (or Ockham's) razor.... a principle attributed to the 14th century logician and Franciscan friar William of Ockham.* Ockham was the village in the English county of Surrey where he was born.

The principle states that *"Entities should not be multiplied unnecessarily"*.

Although many people may be more familiar with one of the stronger worded versions:

"If you have two theories that both explain the observed facts, then you should use the simplest until more evidence comes along".
"The simplest explanation for some phenomenon is more likely to be accurate than more complicated explanations."
"If you have two equally likely solutions to a problem, choose the simplest."
"The explanation requiring the fewest assumptions is most likely to be correct."
. . .or in the only form that takes its own advice. . .
*"Keep things simple!".*

Could it really be so simple as people have discarded their natural vanity, positive self-image, and desire for health.... just so they can enjoy in the gluttony of the day. Yeah... that sounds a lot like most people I know.


----------



## velodog

gandy-dancer said:


> There have been steaming heaps of slavishly regurgitated theories and hackneyed, politically-correct euphamisms posited as answers to the OP's original question.
> 
> _More people sitting behind a computer all day for their jobs_? I don't buy it. I've personally seen all of the following examples in only a single day's observations that disprove the "_working-at-a-computer-all-day_" theory:
> 
> 
> 
> overweight FBI field agents
> overweight weight lifters/body builders
> overweight bike shop employees
> overweight garbage men
> overweight real estate agents
> overweight beat cops/detectives
> overweight waiters
> overweight auto mechanics
> overweight gardeners/landscapers
> overweight fruit pickers
> overweight doctors/nurses/medical pros
> overweight commercial fishermen
> overweight internationally-reknowned session drummers
> overweight geologists
> overweight pro sports referrees
> (_Can you think of any others?_)
> 
> _Air conditioning_? Yeah! Right! Next, they'll be telling you it's extraterrestrial aliens' fault that so many people are overweight. The "_merits_" of both theories are equal (for all the practical use they add toward a solution to the problem).
> 
> So, I'd like to venture *my* guess for a most likely answer to the OP's original question:
> 
> I'm convinced that it boils down to gluttony, sloth and - *crucially* - the fact that the majority of people blame their (and/or their family's) health on everybody else and everything else instead of admitting they're unhealthy because (and *ONLY* because) of their own self-selected priorities.
> 
> What are the things that rank highest in most people's priorities? In my opinion (which is based on what I've observed of what thousands of *REAL* people around me - not statistics or anectdotes - actually *DO* and *SAY*):
> 
> 
> (_in no particular order_)
> 
> 
> Being "_seen as_" the perfect [_husband/wife/mother/father/bike racer/whatever_]
> Being "_seen as_" the perfect [_baptist/mormon/catholic/whatever_]
> Having the perfect job
> Having as much money as possible
> Keeping up with the Jones'
> Having-it-all
> Having the most expensive [_car/house/bike/whatever_]
> Knowing-it-all
> Indulging as many physical pleasures as they can afford
> ...
> 
> For the majority of people, "_Being as healthy as I can possibly be_", just ain't up there in their highest priorities.


So what are you saying here, that fat people are responsible for their own fatness.

I'm sorry but that just can't be, the responsibility clearly falls on someone elses shoulders. Those fat people are doing everything that they can, and it's not their fault that there are so many temptations strewn about by those unscrupulous individuals who have so little regard for their well being.


PS...do you work for the RR on the Track Dept., or does your handle come from some different meaning?


----------



## Dave Cutter

gandy-dancer said:


> .... _P.S. - My handle is an homage to my great-great-great-great grandfather. I discovered it recorded as his occupation in census documents on ancestry.com, and thought it was a neat-sounding word. Thanks for asking _


And.... I'd bet that he didn't get too heavy while laying down those railroads tracks ether. 

I had a grandfather that worked a on a road crew. Those men lived a hard life, camping and working as they went. Away from cities and home for weeks at a time. Some crews meals included a ration of rum with the evening meal as well as rations of tobacco.


----------



## velodog

gandy-dancer said:


> P.S. - My handle is an homage to my great-great-great-great grandfather. I discovered it recorded as his occupation in census documents on ancestry.com, and thought it was a neat-sounding word. Thanks for asking [/I]


That Gr-Gr-Gr-Gr-Grandfather was a hard working man. And this video is from 1971 when things were a lot more mechanized than in his day.






PS...I work for the RR myownself. I'm a car knocker. I knew a fellow back in the early 80's was about 73yrs old and was still working as a gandy dancer. He started on the RR as a 9 or 10 yr old waterboy, bringing the water to the working men till he was big/old enough to swing a hammer his self.

It's a lot different these days.


----------



## misterwaterfallin

goldsbar said:


> Read some of the power lifting and strength training boards. Many a poster will advise drinking a gallon of milk/day to get more bulk so you can lift more. Sure you can lift more, but seriously? Very few actually cut back afterwards. They have themselves convinced they're gaining lean body mass and then you see a picture...


That's a whole different can of worms. Most of the people doing that don't care if they are also adding fat at the same time. We're talking about people trying not to gain weight, not people intentionally gaining as much weight as possible


----------



## Buckhead

Anyone ever consider the fact that everyone says the world is getting smaller?


----------



## NJBiker72

Buckhead said:


> Anyone ever consider the fact that everyone says the world is getting smaller?


I like this. Kind of like the dryer shrunk my jeans!!


----------



## Dwayne Barry

upstateSC-rider said:


> I know but when you think about it I think there's merit.
> An article on a study.


I've seen that before. I get the warming up part, but my impression is that cooling (i.e. sweating) is largely a passive process?


----------



## velodog

Cook that dinner Dora


----------



## Burnette

*This Thread Is Fat*

I can't believe this thread is still going in crazy directions.
Air conditioning is making you fat?
We eat fat cows, therefore go I?
Portion size? You can't stop because there's more on your plate and you eat with a post nuclear mom every day that says you have to clean it?
Too much money or not enough money making you fat?
Europeans are doing it right? Serioulsy? 
Get out from in front of your computer and go hang with
fat people and eat everything they eat and do everything they do physicaly, or don't do for a solid month.
Hang with a fit person, eat what they eat, do what they do for a month.
Here's another one, hook up a Go Pro on a helmet and have both body types turn it on when they eat and during hours of physical activity.
There's your reality show right there btw. Ponder what you will see.
Rich Cold Eurpean Poor Fat Cows makin' ya fat? C'mon, man.


----------



## Up and Atom

It's not our fault, it's the fault of our favorite sports teams! From an article in Men's Health...

Fans of losing teams consumed 10 percent more calories than usual the day after a game, the research found. (And the bigger the team’s losing deficit, the more people ate.) But fans of winners translate feelings to their food choices, too: Caloric intake went down 5 percent in spectators whose teams were victorious.


Full article.. 


Let's just say here in Kansas City, we have more than our fair share of overweight people.


----------



## DasBoost

tom_h said:


> View attachment 285941
> Time to trot out a pic of our favorite euro cycling fan ;-)
> 
> If this guy had a nickel for every occurrence of his image ...
> 
> View attachment 285941
> View attachment 285942
> 
> View attachment 285941
> 
> View attachment 285941


Are those flipflops SPD or 3-bolt road, you think? 



Up and Atom said:


> It's not our fault, it's the fault of our favorite sports teams! From an article in Men's Health...
> 
> Fans of losing teams consumed 10 percent more calories than usual the day after a game, the research found. (And the bigger the team’s losing deficit, the more people ate.) But fans of winners translate feelings to their food choices, too: Caloric intake went down 5 percent in spectators whose teams were victorious.
> 
> 
> Full article..
> 
> 
> Let's just say here in Kansas City, we have more than our fair share of overweight people.


So that means Detroit and Cincinatti are drowning in Type II Diabetes?


----------



## Rip Van Cycle

PixelPaul said:


> What a really interesting topic. Probably a result of a number of different reasons, but my thoughts:
> 
> 1. What the hell do kids do nowadays? We recently moved to a new subdivision and nearly every house has playsets in the yard so there surely must be kids, but I don't ever see anyone using them or doing anything outside. Probably the obvious answer is video games and TV, but we had that as a kid and we would play outside from early AM until dark every day the weather permitted. Only time we ever watched TV was on rainy days or after dark.


Yeah... but the sedentary distractions are greater now than ever. In addition to the television, there's the computer, with its ever-waxing mind-sinks like Facebook & Twitter. Let's not forget smart-phones and texting, either. 

(To digress a little), of course there's the "caloric-intake/physical activity" x-y grid-- and I've long held to the viewpoint that physical activity is the _more_ important component. Also bear in mind that physical activity is only efficacious if one stays with it. Speaking for myself, moving weights from position A to position B, and running/walking/stepping/pedalling in place is (to me) stupefyingly boring, after a while. guess I have some company in this- which is why most people who join health-clubs or gyms drop out after about nine months, if left to their own initiative. 

Kind of lose me here, though... 


PixelPaul said:


> ...in today's hyper-partisan climate I can't imagine anything ever changing. Ever hear right-wing radio trash Michelle Obama for "big government nanny state takeover" for encouraging kids to exercise after school. Such a controversial issue.


I know I should have more fruit in my diet... but that's much too limited a handful of freshly picked cherries for _my_ taste.


----------



## upstateSC-rider

Dwayne Barry said:


> I've seen that before. I get the warming up part, but my impression is that cooling (i.e. sweating) is largely a passive process?


My take on the AC deal is that cooler temps increase appetite, kind of like wanting comfort food during the winter. Nowadays most people go from their air-conditioned house to their air-conditioned car to their air-conditioned office to the air-conditioned car back to the air-conditioned house.

Think about being outside all day, last thing you think about is a buffet. I'm not talking about a Roofer either with the physical exertion, even if you're just sitting on the lake fishing your appetite just isn't there.

Used to be the South was ridiculed first for all of the fat people but I think AC was more prevalent in the South first.

Everyone knows the calories in - calories out equation but the increased appetite with readily available (read:cheap) food is tipping the scale to favor calories in imo.


----------



## Clyde250

I just finished a book on this by Dr. Robert Lustig called "Fat Chance." Basically it comes down to sugars and refined carbohydrates coupled with a lack of fiber in our diets. The copious amounts of sugars lead to other things like insulin resistance and metabolic disorders. Good read.


----------



## looigi

Nah...it's an imbalance in the microbiome of your gut: http://www.nytimes.com/2013/09/06/h...an-slim-mice-down.html?partner=EXCITE&ei=5043


----------



## bwbishop

When I was a kid we would leave the house in the morning and play in the woods until dinner time. No computer, no tablets, just sticks and climbing trees. I use to ride my one speed 10 miles a day in 3rd and 4th grade. That's just how it was living in the country.

Too many electronics and nanny parents that don't allow their kids more than a block from home.


----------



## Wyville

Clyde250 said:


> I just finished a book on this by Dr. Robert Lustig called "Fat Chance." Basically it comes down to sugars and refined carbohydrates coupled with a lack of fiber in our diets. The copious amounts of sugars lead to other things like insulin resistance and metabolic disorders. Good read.


Nah, it's not as simple as that. Yes, foods high in sugars and fats are one aspect of the problem, but bwbishop has another aspect of it. Overall our lifestyles have become less active and there we can find one of, if not the most important cause of obesity. You can compensate an awful lot of calories by not sitting still, by taking the stairs instead of the lift or going to work on a bicycle instead of by car.

Of course in North America the food culture a problem too. The one time I visited Canada I had a hard time dealing with that. Even the smallest portions were far too big, food was a lot more processed and even fruit looked unnatural. I hope to return to Canada next summer and will look for organic food instead, but I can imagine that if North America has a culture of overabundance, high processing and relatively limited organic options then that will contribute to the problem. Especially in cases of people who don't like cooking, who need a fast meal or who are less preoccupied with their fitness.

It's generally several layers on top of each other and you can see those stacking up over here in Europe too (portion sizes for instance are slowly increasing).


----------



## MTBryan01

Burnette said:


> I can't believe this thread is still going in crazy directions.
> Air conditioning is making you fat?
> We eat fat cows, therefore go I?
> Portion size? You can't stop because there's more on your plate and you eat with a post nuclear mom every day that says you have to clean it?
> Too much money or not enough money making you fat?
> Europeans are doing it right? Serioulsy?
> Get out from in front of your computer and go hang with
> fat people and eat everything they eat and do everything they do physicaly, or don't do for a solid month.
> Hang with a fit person, eat what they eat, do what they do for a month.
> Here's another one, hook up a Go Pro on a helmet and have both body types turn it on when they eat and during hours of physical activity.
> There's your reality show right there btw. Ponder what you will see.
> Rich Cold Eurpean Poor Fat Cows makin' ya fat? C'mon, man.


Tru dat!


----------



## den bakker

Wyville said:


> Nah, it's not as simple as that. Yes, foods high in sugars and fats are one aspect of the problem, but bwbishop has another aspect of it. Overall our lifestyles have become less active and there we can find one of, if not the most important cause of obesity. You can compensate an awful lot of calories by not sitting still, by taking the stairs instead of the lift or going to work on a bicycle instead of by car.


one large mcdonalds fries is about 500 altitude meter of climbing for me to burn off....
or a sh!tload of stairs.


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## Wyville

den bakker said:


> one large mcdonalds fries is about 500 altitude meter of climbing for me to burn off....
> or a sh!tload of stairs.


A key factor is not so much the training, it's the Non-Exercise Activity Thermogenesis (NEAT). Basically that's your general activity level during the day and that's where the amount of calories starts to add up. Not because of the intensity level, but simply because it goes on all day long. 

You can quickly undo a hour worth of training (in terms of calories) by being too inactive at other times.


----------



## den bakker

Wyville said:


> A key factor is not so much the training, it's the Non-Exercise Activity Thermogenesis (NEAT). Basically that's your general activity level during the day and that's where the amount of calories starts to add up. Not because of the intensity level, but simply because it goes on all day long.
> 
> You can quickly undo a hour worth of training (in terms of calories) by being too inactive at other times.


That's why I wrote stairs as well. 
no matter how you write it, climbing stairs is m*g*h times the efficiency to produce work. all the terms are known. I still need to walk quite a few 100 meter of stairs to get rid of the fries. 
I don't disagree being active during the day helps but it's not going to offset the calorie dense food many people eat.


----------



## Jay Strongbow

Wyville said:


> You can quickly undo a hour worth of training (in terms of calories) by being too inactive at other times.


Huh? "In terms of calories" you get them from eating not sitting on the couch.


----------



## kris7047th

Jay Strongbow said:


> Huh? "In terms of calories" you get them from eating not sitting on the couch.


But you are not *burning *the calories sitting on the couch. Now I get why we have become such a fat society .. too many people are absolutely clueless how to manage their bodies .. and no Smart APP will fix that.


----------



## love4himies

Wyville said:


> Nah, it's not as simple as that. Yes, foods high in sugars and fats are one aspect of the problem, but bwbishop has another aspect of it. Overall our lifestyles have become less active and there we can find one of, if not the most important cause of obesity. You can compensate an awful lot of calories by not sitting still, by taking the stairs instead of the lift or going to work on a bicycle instead of by car.
> 
> Of course in North America the food culture a problem too. The one time I visited Canada I had a hard time dealing with that. Even the smallest portions were far too big, food was a lot more processed and even fruit looked unnatural. I hope to return to Canada next summer and will look for organic food instead, but I can imagine that if North America has a culture of overabundance, high processing and relatively limited organic options then that will contribute to the problem. Especially in cases of people who don't like cooking, who need a fast meal or who are less preoccupied with their fitness.
> 
> It's generally several layers on top of each other and you can see those stacking up over here in Europe too (portion sizes for instance are slowly increasing).


Bingo. 

The food here is crap compared to Europe (I lived there for 7 years). In Canada's defense about the fruit & veggies, we have to import a lot from around the world and transporting across our vast country is an issue too, but there is no excuse for our meats, cheeses, breads, etc.

I heard down in the US the portion sizes are even bigger. My parents, who winter in Florida, just have to order one senior meal for the two of them because of the portions.


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## Wyville

den bakker said:


> That's why I wrote stairs as well.
> no matter how you write it, climbing stairs is m*g*h times the efficiency to produce work. all the terms are known. I still need to walk quite a few 100 meter of stairs to get rid of the fries.
> I don't disagree being active during the day helps but it's not going to offset the calorie dense food many people eat.


I think you might be calculating it a bit too simply. It is not walking up the stair by itself, it's the accumulation of a wide variety of activities that does it. I ride a bike to work, I take the stairs, I walk to the local shop, I get up from the couch easily to do something, etc., etc.. They all burn only a few calories by themselves, but accumulated it is significant.

A study a few years ago measured differences between people of varying weights and they had one lean man as part of the study who could eat everything he wanted and not gain weight. Careful observation revealed that he was simply never sitting still. Even in a chair he would wiggle his feet.

Back when I was still studying we had a guest lecture by an obesity expert and he too pressed how important non-excercise activity was. It burns an awful lot of calories over the course of the day.


----------



## Wyville

love4himies said:


> My parents, who winter in Florida, just have to order one senior meal for the two of them because of the portions.


Ha ha! Maybe my wife and I should try that next time we visit. Pretty romanic too, sharing a plate. :wink5:


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## den bakker

it's the accumulation of a wide variety of activities that does it.

I ride a bike to work, -< overcoming friction and potential energy,

I take the stairs, <-- overcoming potential energy

I walk to the local shop, <-- friction and mainly potential energy

I get up from the couch easily to do something, etc., etc.. <-- moving your ass up, have to overcome potential energy. 
all of that basically comes down to what I wrote above. 

The sum still have to be 500 calories which is equivalent for me to ascend roughly 500meter. I could get up 1000 times from the couch instead. You might get there during the day but then you have to start afterwards getting rid of that large coke you had with the burger and the fries. And that's just for the energy excess at lunch. Oh and it better not be a double whopper with cheese as the burger since that's 1000 calories in itself.


----------



## Jay Strongbow

Wyville said:


> I think you might be calculating it a bit too simply. It is not walking up the stair by itself, it's the accumulation of a wide variety of activities that does it. I ride a bike to work, I take the stairs, I walk to the local shop, I get up from the couch easily to do something, etc., etc.. They all burn only a few calories by themselves, but accumulated it is significant.
> 
> A study a few years ago measured differences between people of varying weights and they had one lean man as part of the study who could eat everything he wanted and not gain weight. Careful observation revealed that he was simply never sitting still. Even in a chair he would wiggle his feet.
> 
> *Back when I was still studying we had a guest lecture by an obesity expert and he too pressed how important non-excercise activity was. It burns an awful lot of calories over the course of the day*.


At the risk of introducing common sense to your academic analysis.....if you've ever worked on construction sites where people are moving all day and in an office where they are not you would quickly see that moving all day (aka non-excercise activity), or not, has no correlation with rates of fatass-ism.


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## kris7047th

Well it really isn't rocket science. Most people simply eat more than what they need to .. and not enough exercise to burn off what they consume daily.


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## upstateSC-rider

bwbishop said:


> When I was a kid we would leave the house in the morning and play in the woods until dinner time. No computer, no tablets, just sticks and climbing trees. I use to ride my one speed 10 miles a day in 3rd and 4th grade. That's just how it was living in the country.
> 
> Too many electronics and nanny parents that don't allow their kids more than a block from home.


This is how I grew up also, and that was on Long Island, far from the country.
The difference these days, though, is that you can't leave them out all day long without fear of sexual predators or being sued because you didn't apply sunblock on your kids every 2.1 hours...So instead of hearing the kids whining all day about nothing to do it's easier to buy a Playstation.


----------



## Wyville

Jay Strongbow said:


> At the risk of introducing common sense to your academic analysis.....if you've ever worked on construction sites where people are moving all day and in an office where they are not you would quickly see that moving all day (aka non-excercise activity), or not, has no correlation with rates of fatass-ism.


Surprisingly I worked at construction sites for a short while and although the people were active, most ate extremely poor quality food and drank an awful lot of beer while they were completely inactive at home.

I'm not talking in absolutes either. You can compensate a lot by having an active lifestyle (at work and at home), but obviously it is not the answer to everything. If you eat fast food seven days a week and even several times a day, then you can't compensate that. I've seen people who managed three times the recommended daily calorie intake. There is no training or activity that can compensate.

For most people though, living more actively would solve a lot of problems.


----------



## den bakker

Wyville said:


> I'm not talking in absolutes either. You can compensate a lot by having an active lifestyle (at work and at home), but obviously it is not the answer to everything. If you eat fast food seven days a week and even several times a day, then you can't compensate that. I've seen people who managed three times the recommended daily calorie intake. There is no training or activity that can compensate.
> 
> For most people though, living more actively would solve a lot of problems.


The problem is probably what you consider "most people" with menus like these it's a lost battle. 
View attachment 286429

https://www.cdc.gov/makinghealtheasier/images/cdc-new-abnormal-infographic.png


----------



## Wyville

den bakker said:


> The problem is probably what you consider "most people" with menus like these it's a lost battle.
> View attachment 286429
> 
> https://www.cdc.gov/makinghealtheasier/images/cdc-new-abnormal-infographic.png


Well yes, that's why I mentioned it earlier on. Especially in North America portion sizes are extremely large and there is no sensible reason for them being that large.


----------



## Wyville

gandy-dancer said:


> The futility of trying to talk common sense to anybody who could walk down a street, pass 68 overweight people out of every 100 people, and STILL not admit *the majority* of their own population is overweight, is not lost on me.


Not sure who you are talking about, but I never denied that obesity is a problem here too. 



gandy-dancer said:


> Nevertheless, it has to be said that anybody who buys, *WHOLE HOG*, into that "_working-in-offices-makes-you-fat_" hooey, is either blind in both eyes or living in an ivory tower in total denial of the reality around them.


An inactive lifestyle is a very important factor in the obesity epidemic, but I never claimed it was the only one.



gandy-dancer said:


> I wonder how the one poster's "_guest lecturer_" would explain away the prevalance of the one other poster's overweight construction workers, or the real-world examples I listed in an earlier post, and others like the following:
> 
> 
> 
> overweight household movers
> overweight warehouse workers
> overweight package delivery drivers
> overweight mail carriers
> overweight post office workers
> overweight airline baggage handlers
> overweight demolition/explosive experts
> 
> Something tells me that the "_guest lecturer's_" explanation would be (_ala Thurston Howell, III_), "_I say old boy! Unlike those ghastly yanks, we don't have those kind of low-class occupations in [enter your country here]! What, what!_". LOL!


The guest lecturer never explained away anything and I'm not sure why you would think that. The fact is that the overall reduction in non-excercise activity is contributing significantly to the obesity epidemic and it is easy to remedy. It does not require a training regime or a strict diet and the calories are burned without really noticing it. It will not help the morbidly obese or those consuming 4,000+ calories a day, but it will help those who are only somewhat overweight (pre-obese: BMI 25-30).


----------



## den bakker

Wyville said:


> Well yes, that's why I mentioned it earlier on. Especially in North America portion sizes are extremely large and there is no sensible reason for them being that large.


well that is reality.


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## upstateSC-rider

den bakker said:


> well that is reality.


Exactly, more for your money, the 'Murican way.


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## Jay Strongbow

Wyville said:


> Well yes, that's why I mentioned it earlier on. Especially in North America portion sizes are extremely large and there is no sensible reason for them being that large.


The reason for large size portions is because people like to buy them. The availability of large portions of low quality food is not the cause of fat, people eating them is. Pretty simple. 

It's kind of funny to see someone from the UK stereotyping North America as a vast land where people have no choice but to eat fast food in large portions (we all know the food stereotypes of the UK).
The reality is I have no problem finding healthy food choices here in NA in just about any portion size I want just like you can probably find a dentist in the UK despite stereotypes indicating otherwise.


----------



## bwbishop

upstateSC-rider said:


> This is how I grew up also, and that was on Long Island, far from the country.
> The difference these days, though, is that you can't leave them out all day long without fear of sexual predators or being sued because you didn't apply sunblock on your kids every 2.1 hours...So instead of hearing the kids whining all day about nothing to do it's easier to buy a Playstation.


There aren't more predators, just more paranoid parents. Too bad really.


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## velodog

Jay Strongbow said:


> you can probably find a dentist in the UK despite stereotypes indicating otherwise.


That can't be true!


----------



## Cinelli 82220

Wyville said:


> portion sizes are extremely large and there is no sensible reason for them being that large.


Quantity versus quality.

The food may be garbage but the portions are huge so customers are happy.


----------



## Cinelli 82220

Jay Strongbow said:


> (we all know the food stereotypes of the UK)


I spent three long weeks in England and the best place to eat in the area was....McDonalds. I kid you not.


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## Alfonsina

Brits and Aussies like to get lardy off alcoholic calories. Food is cheap in the US but beer and wine are really cheap in Tescos.


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## velodog

Cinelli 82220 said:


> Quantity versus quality.
> 
> The food may be garbage but the portions are huge so customers are happy.


Yep, I've seen fellas buy food that they didn't enjoy because the same food, that they enjoyed, from another establishment, was slightly more expensive for smaller portions.


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## Wyville

gandy-dancer said:


> Sorry. But you did; _implicitly_.
> 
> If you took every use of the words "_North America_" or "_the U.S._" in your posts, then did a global "_Replace_" with the words, "_the U.K._", then everything you said about the U.S. would equally apply to the U.K. Wouldn't you agree?
> 
> So, that begs the question: *Why don't you just make whatever point you're trying to make, by referring to your own country?* You don't think that it is disingenuous to do otherwise?
> 
> The only reasons I can think of why you wouldn't make your point with the U.K. as your reference, is either you don't believe that what you said applies to the U.K. or that you just get off on throwing stones from your glass house.


Or maybe it's simply that I'm not from the UK, nor implicitily denied that obesity is a problem over here in Europe. What I did say was that North America has a different food culture that concerns larger portions and more processed foods. I also said that this culture is slowly making its way over here.

You really shouldn't think there is some kind of accusation behind it. It's a statement of fact. It is also a fact that the US has the largest amount of obesity (BMI >30) among Western nations (33.9% of adults, according to the WHO) and Canada (23.1%) is pretty high up too (quite similar to the UK (22.7%) actually).

And before you start throwing accusation my way again, I live in the Netherlands (10%).


----------



## Wyville

Jay Strongbow said:


> The reason for large size portions is because people like to buy them. The availability of large portions of low quality food is not the cause of fat, people eating them is. Pretty simple.


Why do you think people like to buy them? The food is unhealthy, it has no nutritional value, it makes you fat. There really isn't a sensible reason to eat it. So why do people like it? The answer is in fact the fat, the sugar, the high calories. Processed foods high in fats and sugars are addictive. Eating high caloric foods stimulates the reward system in the brain and at a high intake works like heroin. You'll find that morbidly obese people have trouble not eating and will eat even if they are not hungry, will eat even if they hate themselves for it. 



Jay Strongbow said:


> It's kind of funny to see someone from the UK stereotyping North America as a vast land where people have no choice but to eat fast food in large portions (we all know the food stereotypes of the UK).
> The reality is I have no problem finding healthy food choices here in NA in just about any portion size I want just like you can probably find a dentist in the UK despite stereotypes indicating otherwise.


As I said above, I'm not from the UK, nor am I stereotyping. The fact is that the portion sizes readily available in the US and Canada are available over here only as rare exceptions. For instance, a normal glass of soda here is 200ml or less than 7oz. Exceptional is getting a really big soda of 500ml or around 17oz. That's the largest at McDonalds over here. How large is the largest size in the US? If I understand the image posted earlier it's 42oz or almost 1,300ml.


----------



## Wyville

gandy-dancer said:


> All of a sudden you're fixated on the word, "*Obesity*" (_which - as you point out - has a very specific technical meaning_). However, the OP's original question is "_What is making everyone so *FAT*?_".
> 
> You very cleverly point out the low percentage of _Obesity_ in the Netherlands, but conveniently neglect to mention the *SIGNIFICANT* percentages reported of *Overweight* (i.e., *FAT!*) Netherfolk.
> 
> Sir, I commend you! You are a true _Dutch Master_ of disengenousness!
> 
> Get my drift?
> 
> So if you insist on splitting hairs, just replace "_the U.K._" with "_the Netherlands_", and my point still stands: *You could just as well have answered the OP's question by referring to your own country!*


What is wrong with you? You keep hurling accusations my way that don't make a lick of sense. Yes, every Western country has problems with obesity and people being overweight. The Netherlands has that too. It is just worse in North America and particularly the US where, according to your own source, 80.5% of people have a BMI over 25. I can't help that fact, it's true. I simply ask the question why it is worse in the US compared to Europe. The question is a perfectly valid one and that you turn it into some childish nationalistic feud is beyond ridiculous.


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## looigi

When I was in college and grad school, I ate all sorts of and plenty of processed foods, pizza, fast food burgers and fries, sugary drinks, plenty of alcohol, and was not particularly active. I was skinny. 40 years later, it's an entirely different story. I have to religiously watch what I eat and exercise a lot to maintain weight. Sux, basically.


----------



## Jay Strongbow

Wyville said:


> Why do you think people like to buy them? The food is unhealthy, it has no nutritional value, it makes you fat. There really isn't a sensible reason to eat it. So why do people like it? The answer is in fact the fat, the sugar, the high calories. Processed foods high in fats and sugars are addictive. Eating high caloric foods stimulates the reward system in the brain and at a high intake works like heroin. You'll find that morbidly obese people have trouble not eating and will eat even if they are not hungry, will eat even if they hate themselves for it.
> 
> 
> 
> As I said above, I'm not from the UK, nor am I stereotyping. The fact is that the portion sizes readily available in the US and Canada are available over here only as rare exceptions. For instance, a normal glass of soda here is 200ml or less than 7oz. Exceptional is getting a really big soda of 500ml or around 17oz. That's the largest at McDonalds over here. How large is the largest size in the US? If I understand the image posted earlier it's 42oz or almost 1,300ml.


-A large factor for people buying large portions of not so great food is economic. It's often cheaper than health alternatives. That's a deeper topic.....it's a shame but that's the way it is. 

-I just think it's funny that you saw a weird piece of fruit in Canada and jump to sweeping generalizations of all North America. Canada, Mexico, it's all the same.
Yes, large portions of bad food is available in NA. It is a "choice". But you are putting the cart before the horse with regard to their impact on fatness. People like them and buy them so they are fat. People are not fat because they are available. 
No one is forcing anyone to eat/drink large portions. Just like no one is stopping anyone in the UK from just buying more than one single serving if they want what you seem to think is North American portions. It's really not much of a challenge to eat small amounts if that's what you choose to do here.

I've spent a lot of time in the UK by the way. I wouldn't know about soda because I don't drink it but I saw no evidence that small portions of food was any more or less part of the culture as compared to what I see in North America. Full English anyone?

I live in Boston, I don't doubt there are parts of North America where average portions are much larger. I also would imagine there are places with they are smaller and/or on average healthier (California comes to mind).

You come off sounding kind of silly thinking North American is one big homogeneous place and the big portions are the anything but a 'choice'. If coke went to 7oz bottles fatasses would just buy 2 (or more).


----------



## Wyville

Jay Strongbow said:


> -A large factor for people buying large portions of not so great food is economic. It's often cheaper than health alternatives. That's a deeper topic.....it's a shame but that's the way it is.


I would certainly contest that they are cheaper options. I used to live on a budget and didn't find it difficult to maintain a healthy diet. More likely they are perceived as easier options.



Jay Strongbow said:


> -I just think it's funny that you saw a weird piece of fruit in Canada and jump to sweeping generalizations of all North America. Canada, Mexico, it's all the same.
> Yes, large portions of bad food is available in NA. It is a "choice". But you are putting the cart before the horse with regard to their impact on fatness. People like them and buy them so they are fat. People are not fat because they are available.
> No one is forcing anyone to eat/drink large portions. Just like no one is stopping anyone in the UK from just buying more than one single serving if they want what you seem to think is North American portions. It's really not much of a challenge to eat small amounts if that's what you choose to do here.
> 
> I've spent a lot of time in the UK by the way. I wouldn't know about soda because I don't drink it but I saw no evidence that small portions of food was any more or less part of the culture as compared to what I see in North America. Full English anyone?
> 
> I live in Boston, I don't doubt there are parts of North America where average portions are much larger. I also would imagine there are places with they are smaller and/or on average healthier (California comes to mind).
> 
> You come off sounding kind of silly thinking North American is one big homogeneous place and the big portions are the anything but a 'choice'. If coke went to 7oz bottles fatasses would just buy 2 (or more).


You make a few good points, although I certainly wouldn't consider North America homogenous. 

The choice you mention is indeed a free choice, but at the same time it's like advertising. You might think it doesn't work, but it's only difficult to see on an individual level. That's why I talk in more generalized terms. Over the whole of the population, simply availability by itself causes a shift. That shift has been going for a long period and constantly shifts as people start adjusting their norms. What is considered normal now was not a few decades ago. We see the same shift over here. Slowly portion sizes are increasing and slowly people are getting used to consuming more calories. It's a very subtle process that is only visible at a larger scale.
The choice then becomes something that goes in against a society-wide trend and many people are susceptible to peer pressure and won't make that choice. I live a healthy lifestyle and I am an exception the same way that I am an exception living a more simple lifestyle by not using a mobile phone, facebook, twitter and the likes. 

It's a very deep and complicated problem that will require some radical changes in how our societies work.


----------



## Wyville

gandy-dancer said:


> Another part of "_what is wrong with me_" is that there is a widely-held *MYTH* that, "_...it is rare to see an overweight person in Europe..._". That is an out-and-out *CROCK* that I am compelled to debunk!


Never said that, maybe you should take a breath and chill out a bit.


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## stangoje

It is simple, eat mainly whole foods and drink water. 42 yrs old, 5'-11" (170 lbs)


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## tmartinez

Best nugget of advice I ever got for weight loss and exercise: You can't out-exercise a bad diet.

I know too many friends and family hit the gym or a 30 minute bike ride thinking they are doing something good, then reward themselves afterwards on a 1000 calorie dense, nutrition light meal in a single sitting. Then they wonder why they didn't lose weight, but gained some.

Highly processed food is addictive, and is engineered that way. Lots of sugars, fats, and salt. It's what our bodies and minds crave until it's an addiction in the most literal sense. 

Manufacturing technology is now giving us these foods at a cheaper cost. I can fill up my entire fridge with highly processed foods at the same cost and filling it half way with raw fruits, vegatables, and lean meats. 

While the cost of frozen pizzas, bags of chips, and sodas go down, the cost of peaches, raw veggies, and meats skyrocket.


----------



## arai_speed

tmartinez said:


> ... You can't out-exercise a bad diet...


Great nugget of advice! And funny word selection as "nuggets" are delicious 

Seeing how this is a cycling forum I imagined that most users are active cyclist and therefore in shape.

From reading many post about "clydes" (the use of the word to refer to someone who is a giant of a horse was new to me) and what wheels to get to support a 260lbs person etc paint a whole different picture.

So rather than ask "What is making everyone so fat?" why not ask "What is making YOU so fat?"

I know people who make 6 figure salaries, are educated and are FAT. When I see them I don't think "social-econic" issues. I think "bad eating habits". 

Sooo to all you "clydes" out there, can you share with us why you are a "clyde"?


----------



## NJBiker72

arai_speed said:


> Great nugget of advice! And funny word selection as "nuggets" are delicious
> 
> Seeing how this is a cycling forum I imagined that most users are active cyclist and therefore in shape.
> 
> From reading many post about "clydes" (the use of the word to refer to someone who is a giant of a horse was new to me) and what wheels to get to support a 260lbs person etc paint a whole different picture.
> 
> So rather than ask "What is making everyone so fat?" why not ask "What is making YOU so fat?"
> 
> I know people who make 6 figure salaries, are educated and are FAT. When I see them I don't think "social-econic" issues. I think "bad eating habits".
> 
> Sooo to all you "clydes" out there, can you share with us why you are a "clyde"?


Because this is my favorite jersey:

http://artifactory.magichat.net/products/men-27s-239-louis-garneau-bike-jersey#&ui-state=dialog

Ok. Not a Clyde anymore but I have to watch my diet to stay where I want to. Or even close to it. If I do not set goals it is way to easy to enkoy the Apres Ski season.


----------



## Wyville

gandy-dancer said:


> I also wonder if their reason is the same reason that 60% of men are overweight in a nation whose claim to fame is its world-beating number of bicycle riders per capita.


Because these days they all buy electric bikes and declare commuting expenses at work. :lol:


----------



## den bakker

Wyville said:


> Because these days they all buy electric bikes and declare commuting expenses at work. :lol:


I'm sure a diet of white bread sandwiches, kroket and hagelslag has nothing to do with it. oh I forgot the fries.


----------



## den bakker

gandy-dancer said:


> Not very _"sincere"_ of them. Is it? :lol:
> 
> Any reasonable person would be forgiven for concluding from that that The Netherland's bike-friendly halo might have been earned "_falsely or hypocritically ingenuous_".
> 
> Is that what you are trying to tell us?


obsessed much?


----------



## MTBryan01

Well, this thread has gone to nasty crap. Can't you Internet people just somehow get along?


----------



## STBW

Dave Cutter said:


> Watching TV the other night I saw a commercial that made me want to find a sweet treat. I try not to snack in the evening.... but it made me think. Could all these great food and restaurant commercials be sending people to the frig... and maybe an early grave too.


I made a comment about this the other day. I was watching TV and actually monitoring the commercials for food products. In one hour, I saw a commercial for Taco Bell, McDonald's, Burger King, Doritos, Velveeta, Lays Potato Chips, and Hershey Chocolate. Point being, healthy foods are rarely advertised so the American public is touted by nothing but junk food.


----------



## Jay Strongbow

STBW said:


> I made a comment about this the other day. I was watching TV and actually monitoring the commercials for food products. In one hour, I saw a commercial for Taco Bell, McDonald's, Burger King, Doritos, Velveeta, Lays Potato Chips, and Hershey Chocolate. Point being, healthy foods are rarely advertised so the American public is touted by nothing but junk food.


That's never been any different though even when lardassism wasn't much of a problem. Granted the volume of crap food adds was somewhat diluted by cigarette adds unlike now but TV has always been full of fastfood and garbage household food adds.


----------



## STBW

Jay Strongbow said:


> That's never been any different though even when lardassism wasn't much of a problem. Granted the volume of crap food adds was somewhat diluted by cigarette adds unlike now but TV has always been full of fastfood and garbage household food adds.


But I think the saturation level is much higher now, especially with tablets and smartphones. Add in the fact that we have mostly two working parents, and convenience has taken over in regard to how, when, and what we eat. Suggestive selling works a lot better now because mom isn't at home cooking dinner every night. In fact, she is the one bringing home the fast food for the entire family!


----------



## Jay Strongbow

STBW said:


> But I think the saturation level is much higher now, especially with tablets and smartphones. Add in the fact that we have mostly two working parents, and convenience has taken over in regard to how, when, and what we eat. Suggestive selling works a lot better now because mom isn't at home cooking dinner every night. In fact, she is the one bringing home the fast food for the entire family!


yeah I suppose you're right. And demands on time is definitely a factor like you note.

On the other hand though people, in general, are much more educated with regard to food choices. They just choose not to make the correct ones. I don't think you could sit outside McD's and find anyone who'd tell you they didn't know they were eating garbage. Back in the day I don't think a lot people really knew any better.
I'm sure adds are a factor, but I wouldn't underestimate people's ability to make bad choices without and add telling them to.

I don't think the adds are so much aimed at trying to convert people who eat decent food but are the fast food companies competing for their piece of the existing fast food market....which is massive.
How that market got so large.....who knows. You definitely hit on a few of the factors though.


----------



## STBW

Jay Strongbow said:


> yeah I suppose you're right. And demands on time is definitely a factor like you note.
> 
> On the other hand though people, in general, are much more educated with regard to food choices. They just choose not to make the correct ones. I don't think you could sit outside McD's and find anyone who'd tell you they didn't know they were eating garbage. Back in the day I don't think a lot people really knew any better.
> I'm sure adds are a factor, but I wouldn't underestimate people's ability to make bad choices without and add telling them to.
> 
> I don't think the adds are so much aimed at trying to convert people who eat decent food but are the fast food companies competing for their piece of the existing fast food market....which is massive.
> How that market got so large.....who knows. You definitely hit on a few of the factors though.


Here is one word that can pretty much some it all up...laziness

Dad works late, mom is working too. We all still expect mom to make dinner but she is tired. Instead of coming home and cooking, she stops by and gets a bucket of KFC and throws it down on the table. She knows its bad, but the other choice is to prolong her day by having to cook a meal, serve it, and then clean up.

Flip side of this is why aren't the kids chipping in. Kids today are spoiled, plain and simple. Parent's bend over backwards to MAKE their kids lazy today. There are no kids delivering papers, shoveling sidewalks in the winter, mowing lawns in the summer. Somewhere along the line, our society lost its focus on what growing up normally means. Today, 12 year old kids have a tablet and a smartphone. They play Madden instead of playing real football or baseball. 

Something that really bothers me is how quiet the streets are in the summer. When I was a kid and later in my 20's, our streets were packed with kids playing. The parks were jammed up with kids playing some type of stickball. Today, the parks are pretty empty and the streets are as quiet as a church on a Tuesday afternoon. 

I will take it a step further and into our little cycling world. I saw very few children riding bikes down here (I live at a vacation shore point area) this summer. In fact, on multiple occasions, I saw kids literally crying because their parents MADE them go outside and play when they wanted to be inside in the air conditioning playing games. 

As a society, we have just become VERY lazy and disinterested in a healthy lifestyle. Make no mistake about it, we (meaning exercise enthusiasts) are the minority right now.

Okay, now I am off my soapbox, lol.


----------



## STBW

gandy-dancer said:


> You really don't have to look very hard for horse's mouth evidence of that very fact.
> 
> I saw this one episode of MTV's "_I Used To Be Fat_", where at the end of a 110 day pretty-much successful weight loss program, this one kid just throws his hands up and goes [_and I paraphrase_], "_F*** it! Being healthy and fit just ain't my priority right now...!_".
> 
> If you ever get a chance to see that particular episode, it offers pretty revealing insight into what most fat people think about what they eat.


Which episode is it? they have the kids names listed, I would love to see it.


----------



## Jay Strongbow

STBW said:


> Here is one word that can pretty much some it all up...laziness
> 
> Dad works late, mom is working too. We all still expect mom to make dinner but she is tired. Instead of coming home and cooking, she stops by and gets a bucket of KFC and throws it down on the table. She knows its bad, but the other choice is to prolong her day by having to cook a meal, serve it, and then clean up.
> 
> Flip side of this is why aren't the kids chipping in. Kids today are spoiled, plain and simple. Parent's bend over backwards to MAKE their kids lazy today. There are no kids delivering papers, shoveling sidewalks in the winter, mowing lawns in the summer. Somewhere along the line, our society lost its focus on what growing up normally means. Today, 12 year old kids have a tablet and a smartphone. They play Madden instead of playing real football or baseball.
> 
> Something that really bothers me is how quiet the streets are in the summer. When I was a kid and later in my 20's, our streets were packed with kids playing. The parks were jammed up with kids playing some type of stickball. Today, the parks are pretty empty and the streets are as quiet as a church on a Tuesday afternoon.
> 
> I will take it a step further and into our little cycling world. I saw very few children riding bikes down here (I live at a vacation shore point area) this summer. In fact, on multiple occasions, I saw kids literally crying because their parents MADE them go outside and play when they wanted to be inside in the air conditioning playing games.
> 
> As a society, we have just become VERY lazy and disinterested in a healthy lifestyle. Make no mistake about it, we (meaning exercise enthusiasts) are the minority right now.
> 
> Okay, now I am off my soapbox, lol.



Man, talk about glass half empty. 

If no kids are active in the US where are all these adults that have us as pretty much the worlds leading sports nation coming from? And it's not that the world has declined along with us.......the fitness level of athletes is higher than it's ever been in every sport. Just look at the progression of track & field records (okay, let's not get into drugs here though).

There are just more extremes. There are more people into fitness than ever. However, there are also more fat slobs than ever. That of course means less average people.

You're a little quick to blame things on being lazy. Being into fitness is a luxury not afforded to a lot of people. A lot of these poor people dumping a large KFC bucket on the table are working two jobs and hardly getting by so I would't paint them all with the same brush. I'm sure if they had a decent income and worked a 40 hour week they would be more than willing to spend some time cooking a decent meal. Just like I would imagine alot of fitness fanatics would let things slip if they were forced to work 70 hours just to feed a few kids and have nothing left over.


----------



## STBW

Jay Strongbow said:


> Man, talk about glass half empty.
> 
> If no kids are active in the US where are all these adults that have us as pretty much the worlds leading sports nation coming from? And it's not that the world has declined along with us.......the fitness level of athletes is higher than it's ever been in every sport. Just look at the progression of track & field records (okay, let's not get into drugs here though).
> 
> There are just more extremes. There are more people into fitness than ever. However, there are also more fat slobs than ever. That of course means less average people.
> 
> You're a little quick to blame things on being lazy. Being into fitness is a luxury not afforded to a lot of people. A lot of these poor people dumping a large KFC bucket on the table are working two jobs and hardly getting by so I would't paint them all with the same brush. I'm sure if they had a decent income and worked a 40 hour week they would be more than willing to spend some time cooking a decent meal. Just like I would imagine alot of fitness fanatics would let things slip if they were forced to work 70 hours just to feed a few kids and have nothing left over.


Buying junk food is a lot more costly than actually going to the grocery store and buying real food. And you are right, I have no pity on people that work a lot and then feed their kids junk. I grew up in a single home where my dad worked three jobs yet still made sure we had a home cooked meal every night for dinner. 

And I didn't say NO kids were active, it is just far less than when we were growing up. Simply put, at least in my opinion, there is no reason for a child to be fat. Yes, there may be some exceptions to the rule, but obese and lazy parents tend to raise obese and lazy children. Since when did we ever have to beg a child to go out and play? 

I also think we are the exception to the rule. If I look at 20 of my friends, maybe 4 or 5 of them are into fitness. Not all of them are fat, but most of them are out of shape. There is a difference in being physically fit and in-shape. My brother weighs about 30 pounds less than I do and he can't ride a bike 2 miles without huffing and puffing. He looks thin, but he is hardly physically fit.


----------



## Wyville

den bakker said:


> I'm sure a diet of white bread sandwiches, kroket and hagelslag has nothing to do with it. oh I forgot the fries.


You know, I had a kroket about a month ago. First time in years. I was sooo hungry that when I went to the canteen I couldn't help myself. At least its out of my system now for a few more years. 

Oh and it's not the fries, it's the mayo. Pulp fiction was right about that.


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## Wyville

gandy-dancer said:


> Not very _"sincere"_ of them. Is it? :lol:
> 
> Any reasonable person would be forgiven for concluding from that that The Netherland's bike-friendly halo might have been earned "_falsely or hypocritically ingenuous_".
> 
> Is that what you are trying to tell us?


It's a process we call "Americanization" (i.e. becoming lazy and fat). :lol: 

(Relax, that was just a light hearted joke.)


----------



## den bakker

Wyville said:


> You know, I had a kroket about a month ago. First time in years. I was sooo hungry that when I went to the canteen I couldn't help myself. At least its out of my system now for a few more years.
> 
> Oh and it's not the fries, it's the mayo. Pulp fiction was right about that.


well congratulations but the kroket walls are there since they sell and this context yours or mine diet is irrelevant. The cafeterias in Zuid Holland sell tons of them together with white bread+cheese+ham+mustard.


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## Jay Strongbow

den bakker said:


> well congratulations but the kroket walls are there since they sell and this context yours or mine diet is irrelevant. The cafeterias in Zuid Holland sell tons of them together with white bread+cheese+ham+mustard.


According to many Europeans I've had the privilage of being be educated on that subject by: American fast food is evil.......but Euro fast food is part of a unique and interesting tapestry of food culture.

Kind of like how Americans don't have the cycling culture because Americans are fat slobs yet the prevalence of execise gyms in the US relative to Yurp is explained by Americans being vain.


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## Cartoscro

I think it's all been mentioned already. We played outside on summer breaks and on the weekends when I was in grade school. Now-a-days, kids play inside on their Iphones and computers. You tell them to put down the phone and go outside, and they complain about it being hot. Pussification of our children is real, and it's going to get worse before it gets better.

Fast food adds to the problem, but I grew up on a lot of fast food myself. And I was never overweight. It all goes back to everyone getting used to the air conditioner and TV.

The sad thing is, there are obese people that are completely fine with being fat. It doesn't bother them a bit. If they can't make a simple rational decision like not eating fast food three times a day, and bowl of candy and ice cream as a mid-night snack, then let them do so. It's not the fault of free market advertising.


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## Notvintage

looigi said:


> I was skinny. 40 years later, it's an entirely different story. I have to religiously watch what I eat and exercise a lot to maintain weight. Sux, basically.


Everyone gets more diabetic with age. Insulin response curves are not favorable after 30. Taking Metformin helps a lot!


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## velodog

STBW said:


> I made a comment about this the other day. I was watching TV and actually monitoring the commercials for food products. In one hour, I saw a commercial for Taco Bell, McDonald's, Burger King, Doritos, Velveeta, Lays Potato Chips, and Hershey Chocolate. Point being, healthy foods are rarely advertised so the American public is touted by nothing but junk food.


That's because it's against the law to advertise cigarettes on TV these days.


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## Wyville

Jay Strongbow said:


> According to many Europeans I've had the privilage of being be educated on that subject by: American fast food is evil.......but Euro fast food is part of a unique and interesting tapestry of food culture.


Den bakker has a good point. The Dutch have a certain type of fast food restaurant that is not regularly seen in the US. We call it the "friettent" which may be translated as a chip shop or chippy, but it sells other things than fish-and-chips. Kroket, frikandel, and many more are typically Dutch fast food and not any healthier than US fast food. The portions are generally smaller though. 



Jay Strongbow said:


> Kind of like how Americans don't have the cycling culture because Americans are fat slobs yet the prevalence of execise gyms in the US relative to Yurp is explained by Americans being vain.


One thing is for certain, the number and sizes of gyms in the US does not reflect any type of "healthy living" culture. I'm very jealous of sports fascilities in the US as they are bigger, better equiped and easier accessed. Question then is why obesity is so much more of a problem in the US compared to my own country?


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## NJBiker72

Wyville said:


> Den bakker has a good point. The Dutch have a certain type of fast food restaurant that is not regularly seen in the US. We call it the "friettent" which may be translated as a chip shop or chippy, but it sells other things than fish-and-chips. Kroket, frikandel, and many more are typically Dutch fast food and not any healthier than US fast food. The portions are generally smaller though.
> 
> 
> 
> One thing is for certain, the number and sizes of gyms in the US does not reflect any type of "healthy living" culture. I'm very jealous of sports fascilities in the US as they are bigger, better equiped and easier accessed. Question then is why obesity is so much more of a problem in the US compared to my own country?


When I used to go to the gym the most popular places were the cafe and the steam room. In the summer the sun deck was packed too. People hanging out on weight machines chatting away. 

Call me anti-social but I have limited time. Go downstairs hop on the bike, treadmill or ski machine or some weights and some yoga. Never went to the gym to socialize.


----------



## Wyville

NJBiker72 said:


> When I used to go to the gym the most popular places were the cafe and the steam room. In the summer the sun deck was packed too. People hanging out on weight machines chatting away.
> 
> Call me anti-social but I have limited time. Go downstairs hop on the bike, treadmill or ski machine or some weights and some yoga. Never went to the gym to socialize.


We have that here at the gyms too. Even worse are the groups of runners and cyclists on Sundays (the "weekend warriors"). They burn more calories talking than training and gain more afterwards at the bar drinking sports drinks and beer.

My solution? I have my own personal gym at home and always run and ride by myself or with the wife (who is just as serious about training as I am).

If you can talk while training, you aren't pushing hard enough.


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## Jay Strongbow

Wyville said:


> Den bakker has a good point. The Dutch have a certain type of fast food restaurant that is not regularly seen in the US. We call it the "friettent" which may be translated as a chip shop or chippy, but it sells other things than fish-and-chips. Kroket, frikandel, and many more are typically Dutch fast food and not any healthier than US fast food. The portions are generally smaller though.
> 
> 
> 
> One thing is for certain, the number and sizes of gyms in the US does not reflect any type of "healthy living" culture. I'm very jealous of sports fascilities in the US as they are bigger, better equiped and easier accessed. Question then is why obesity is so much more of a problem in the US compared to my own country?


Who is keeping those gyms in business? Europeans on vacation I assume.

Again with painting the US with the same brush as if it's homogeneous. There most certainly is a culture of healthy living in the US. You'd be a fool to think otherwise. 
There's also a culture of fat and lazy.....and plenty inbetween.

The Netherlands is tiny. You could easily carve out a chunk of the US the same size and say they have a much healthier living style (Southern California for example). And of course you could carve out an area much less healthy as compared to the Netherlands.

You just sound silly painting US citizens with the same brush as if a culture of healthy living doesn't exist in the US. Don't let reality distort what you see on TV and want to believe though.


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## Wyville

Jay Strongbow said:


> Who is keeping those gyms in business? Europeans on vacation I assume.
> 
> Again with painting the US with the same brush as if it's homogeneous. There most certainly is a culture of healthy living in the US. You'd be a fool to think otherwise.
> There's also a culture of fat and lazy.....and plenty inbetween.
> 
> The Netherlands is tiny. You could easily carve out a chunk of the US the same size and say they have a much healthier living style (Southern California for example). And of course you could carve out an area much less healthy as compared to the Netherlands.
> 
> You just sound silly painting US citizens with the same brush as if a culture of healthy living doesn't exist in the US. Don't let reality distort what you see on TV and want to believe though.


My comment referred to the nearly 67% of the US adult population that has a BMI over 25 (according to the WHO) and the nearly 34% that is over 30. Those figures are quite impressive and make it perfectly valid to make a generalized statement that the US does not have a "healthy living" culture overall. Those who do live healthy are clearly the exception.


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## SNS1938

Jay Strongbow said:


> Man, talk about glass half empty.
> 
> If no kids are active in the US where are all these adults that have us as pretty much the worlds leading sports nation coming from? And it's not that the world has declined along with us.......the fitness level of athletes is higher than it's ever been in every sport. Just look at the progression of track & field records (okay, let's not get into drugs here though).
> 
> There are just more extremes. There are more people into fitness than ever. However, there are also more fat slobs than ever. That of course means less average people.
> 
> You're a little quick to blame things on being lazy. Being into fitness is a luxury not afforded to a lot of people. A lot of these poor people dumping a large KFC bucket on the table are working two jobs and hardly getting by so I would't paint them all with the same brush. I'm sure if they had a decent income and worked a 40 hour week they would be more than willing to spend some time cooking a decent meal. Just like I would imagine alot of fitness fanatics would let things slip if they were forced to work 70 hours just to feed a few kids and have nothing left over.


It is true that America does very well at sports competitions like the Olympics. However, much of the results come from having a large population and abundance of money (compared to many countries), the existence of college sports scholarships etc. So yes, some kids are active in the US, but the problem isn't the small percentage of top level athletes, but the overwhelming majority who slip from doing high school sports to doing nothing in their 20's, and then never doing much again.

The best countries I've seen for active adults, were Sweden and Norway. I just remember seeing so many people walking and cycling around Stockholm and Oslo. Walking to the shops, walking from one shop to another, riding a bike to work ... Where I live in CA, people will drive trips even as short as half a mile.


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## Dave Cutter

gandy-dancer said:


> .... I saw this one episode of MTV's "_I Used To Be Fat_", where at the end of a 110 day pretty-much successful weight loss program, this one kid just throws his hands up and goes [_and I paraphrase_], "_F*** it! Being healthy and fit just ain't my priority right now...!_"...


I am no expert.... but that sure reads/sounds a lot like addictive behavior IMO. I am NOT one of those that think nearly any/every thing can be addictive ether. But I know from my own experience with losing weight that at some point everyone has to realize that maintaining a healthy weight means sacrifice of sorts. 

Moderating or eliminating a behavior is difficult for those addicted to said behaviors. Blurting out a comment like: "_Being healthy and fit just ain't my priority_..." sounds exactly like the irrational response that would be expected from an addict.


----------



## Jay Strongbow

SNS1938 said:


> The best countries I've seen for active adults, were Sweden and Norway. *I just remember seeing so many people walking and cycling around Stockholm and Oslo. Walking to the shops, walking from one shop to another, riding a bike to work ... *Where I live in CA, people will drive trips even as short as half a mile.


No kidding, is there a crowded city in the world that doesn't have people walking from shop to shop? I'm sure there must be webcams set up in Chicago, NYC, Boston ect......you'll be able to see the same thing there if you want to google them. I live in Boston and can tell you for sure you'd see the same thing here. 

I'm not saying people in Sweeden and Norway are not active on average because I really don't know but your 'evidence' supporting that they, as a country, are is kind of funny.


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## Wyville

gandy-dancer said:


> Then how do you square your position with this?
> 
> That sounds like the very definition of "_healthy living *overall*_" to me.


Simple, they are two very different things. The article is about the increase in lifetime and how healthcare helps to prevent diseases. That's the reason why healthcare costs in the US are skyrocketing. It's typical of modern culture to look for scientific solutions for problems rather than preventing them. Fat people demand liposuction, gastric bypass surgery, diet drugs based on T4, etc., and nothing of that has to do with healthy living overall. It's the perfect example of the modern quick-fix culture.


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## Dave Cutter

I was at a shin-dig the other day that had a huge spread of food. I passed on seconds and a friend commented that I shouldn't need to worry with as much as I exercise I would just pedal-off the calories. 

Like I said to him..... I wish it was that easy.

Having an active lifestyle is a good thing. But even pro cyclist complain about having to watch what (and how much) they eat. Congested urban living, and mass transit mixed with lots of walking might be popular or even politically correct. But passive exercise doesn't resolve poor diet issues... based on my own personal experience.


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## looigi

Latest DIY quick fix for what ails you, including obesity: DIY fecal transplant


----------



## kris7047th

Notvintage said:


> Everyone gets more diabetic with age. Insulin response curves are not favorable after 30. Taking Metformin helps a lot!


Who told you this? I am 63 yr old woman 5'5" 122 lbs AND I TAKE NO MEDICATIONS. 

Honestly .. people just don't understand common sense eating and exercise !!! They just wanna do what they wanna do and fix it with drugs. That doesn't work forever, because drugs over time lose their effectiveness.

I eat what I want (very RARELY fast foods, and very few high carb foods (they convert to sugars) So if you a lot of breads, potatoes plus sweets you will have issues with with your sugar/insulin.

I am SENSIBLE about the portions I eat and exercise daily. I cook my food from scratch, rarely use prepared, pre-cooked boxed, frozen meals. When I was a kid rarely did you see an obese person, yet we had soda pop, sweets (mostly home made and we ate meals around the family dinner table that mom made. We played outside, not in front of a television .. no video games.

Want to lose weight? Do your grocery shopping on the outside aisles where the dairy, meats, vegetables and fruit are .. that means you will have to prepare them yourself but you will know what is in what you eat. 
Eat on a smaller plate to cut the portion at each meal. Stop drinking pop! Drink water. tea, coffee juice (real juice that doesn't have sugar added) Limit the amount of breads, potatoes, and no deep fried crap that you get at a fast food restaurant.


----------



## love4himies

kris7047th said:


> Who told you this? I am 63 yr old woman 5'5" 122 lbs AND I TAKE NO MEDICATIONS.
> 
> Honestly .. people just don't understand common sense eating and exercise !!! They just wanna do what they wanna do and fix it with drugs. That doesn't work forever, because drugs over time lose their effectiveness.
> 
> I eat what I want (very RARELY fast foods, and very few high carb foods (they convert to sugars) So if you a lot of breads, potatoes plus sweets you will have issues with with your sugar/insulin.
> 
> I am SENSIBLE about the portions I eat and exercise daily. I cook my food from scratch, rarely use prepared, pre-cooked boxed, frozen meals. When I was a kid rarely did you see an obese person, yet we had soda pop, sweets (mostly home made and we ate meals around the family dinner table that mom made. We played outside, not in front of a television .. no video games.
> 
> Want to lose weight? Do your grocery shopping on the outside aisles where the dairy, meats, vegetables and fruit are .. that means you will have to prepare them yourself but you will know what is in what you eat.
> Eat on a smaller plate to cut the portion at each meal. Stop drinking pop! Drink water. tea, coffee juice (real juice that doesn't have sugar added) Limit the amount of breads, potatoes, and no deep fried crap that you get at a fast food restaurant.


Well now, that's just too much common sense for the young folk.


----------



## kris7047th

love4himies said:


> Well now, that's just too much common sense for the young folk.


Why I am *skinny* and others are not (not just young folk too)


----------



## ph0enix

Quit picking on me!
I crashed a week ago so I'm sitting on the couch with a broken scapula, two broken ribs, punctured lung, stitched up wrist and road rash. I'm eating ice cream, chocolate, percoset, motrin and watching TV. 

It looks like the frame is toast


----------



## kris7047th

ph0enix said:


> Quit picking on me!
> I crashed a week ago so I'm sitting on the couch with a broken scapula, two broken ribs, punctured lung, stitched up wrist and road rash. I'm eating ice cream, chocolate, percoset, motrin and watching TV.
> 
> It looks like the frame is toast


Sorry for your woes. Hey .. enjoy the ice cream and chocolate.


----------



## NJBiker72

ph0enix said:


> Quit picking on me!
> I crashed a week ago so I'm sitting on the couch with a broken scapula, two broken ribs, punctured lung, stitched up wrist and road rash. I'm eating ice cream, chocolate, percoset, motrin and watching TV.
> 
> It looks like the frame is toast


Sorry. Remember being laid up. It hurt worst whenever I saw someone ride past me.


----------



## Dave Cutter

ph0enix said:


> Quit picking on me!
> I crashed a week ago so I'm sitting on the couch with a broken scapula, two broken ribs, punctured lung, stitched up wrist and road rash. I'm eating ice cream, chocolate, percoset, motrin and watching TV.


Sorry to hear about the crash. But I have to admit... the Percocet sounds delicious!


----------



## Dave Cutter

looigi said:


> Latest DIY quick fix for what ails you, including obesity: DIY fecal transplant





kris7047th said:


> ........ I am SENSIBLE about the portions I eat and exercise daily. I cook my food from scratch, rarely use prepared, pre-cooked boxed, frozen meals.
> 
> Want to lose weight? Do your grocery shopping on the outside aisles where the dairy, meats, vegetables and fruit are .. that means you will have to prepare them yourself but you will know what is in what you eat.
> 
> Eat on a smaller plate to cut the portion at each meal. Stop drinking pop! Drink water. tea, coffee juice (real juice that doesn't have sugar added) Limit the amount of breads, potatoes, and no deep fried crap that you get at a fast food restaurant.


Hummmmm live like an actual responsible adult..... or wait for a poo pill to come out? 

I think I'll stick with eating healthy foods. I've really become fond of my lunch salads. And from what I've read... some of the salad parts come pre-seasoned with poo.


----------



## Wyville

gandy-dancer said:


> I gotta hand it to you, Wyville, old man! Your prowess at America-baiting is way beyond that of the typical anti-American. No sir, you've proven yourself to be a Master baiter of the highest order! :thumbsup:


Why do you assume I'm anti-American? I'm not. 

We all know the US is the leading Western nation in terms of obesity and an overabundance of highly processed food. That makes it a very useful example for comparing with other Western nations where the obesity epidemic has not yet reached the same level but which have a similar culture. It's an informative comparison and shouldn't be interpreted as an attack.

In the same way I would expect any discussion on the pros and cons of the legalization of drugs to refer to the Netherlands and its unique policy.


----------



## Cinelli 82220

In America urban design favours automobile travel and walking is discouraged. If you live in the suburbs it can be a very long walk to get to any shopping. And lugging a bunch groceries back home is not practical. Comparing American suburban living to city life in Scandinavia is unrealistic.
And many people work in big industrial parks, there is nowhere to walk to for a healthy lunch. Even riding a bike in some of these parks is hazardous since the access roads are full of semis and cranky commuters.


----------



## kris7047th

Just too many excuses not to exercise and to eat atrociously = why so many are overweight and are OK with it


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## icemonkey

I love this thread - let's be honest, most of us who post here at rbr are fit and diet/exercise obsessed. So to watch the to and fro of blaming social-personal-food companies is quite cool. This issue seems to be quite a complex one, but essentially a perfect storm of social and scientific developments . food processing in combination with what is an essentially easy life and add a bit of emotional fulfillment that can only come from food and - bingo. For example how many cars have manual window winders? That's a few calories every drive. Feeling down? I know I sometimes ease my sadness with a slice of lemon drizzle cake (OK I do all the time). I'm currently quite unexpectedly poor and when I'm shopping I now look for the biggest calorie intake per penny and that comes from processed junk I would never have touched before. 
Two quick stories, waaaaay back in the day I was an archaeological scientist who spent mostof my time looking at skeletons. There was this sudden change in dentition when sugar became available, literally the teeth of our ancestors disintegrated over a generation. Skulls 50 years before had (relatively) good teeth and then they just became mush.
The second story comes from a few years ago, when my grandmother died we all went home to the family farm, which had fallen into decline and was now just a little patch in a growing urban sprawl. All the little complex farms run by families and producing food that they were proud of had been replaced by industrial monocultures mass producing calories - not food. When I was a kid I remember farms with fields of leuttice, followed by corn or beans or wheat. Farmers were proud of their produce. Today, nope, just factory workers doing a job at the cheapest price.


----------



## goldsbar

Scientific America just did a whole issue on this topic. And the answer is... All of the above. Addiction? Yes. Calories in = calories out? Sort of. Calorie counts are often not accurate when talking about what's actually absorbed by the body/how hard to digest. There's also differences as to having the body burn the excess calories as heat or storing as fat. Let's just say that it seems that sugar is not your friend.


----------



## Buckhead

I might have missed this, but I would be interested to see it broken down on a socioeconomic basis. I think people who have the money and/or careers that provide for more disposable income and leisure time are thinner in a higher percentage than others. Why? They can take the time to eat right and exercise. I am sure there are some financial factors, as a 6-pack of pop-tarts (quick breakfast) is $2.50, while most "healthy" bars (just for a quick comparison) are at least $1-$1.25 a piece.


----------



## looigi

Buckhead said:


> I might have missed this, but I would be interested to see it broken down on a socioeconomic basis. I think people who have the money and/or careers that provide for more disposable income and leisure time are thinner in a higher percentage than others. Why? They can take the time to eat right and exercise. I am sure there are some financial factors, as a 6-pack of pop-tarts (quick breakfast) is $2.50, while most "healthy" bars (just for a quick comparison) are at least $1-$1.25 a piece.


Perhaps people who have careers and earn more money are more ambitious and intelligent so are more aware and diligent about eating properly and exercising?


----------



## Dave Cutter

Buckhead said:


> I might have missed this, but I would be interested to see it broken down on a socioeconomic basis. I think people who have the money and/or careers that provide for more disposable income and leisure time are thinner in a higher percentage than others.


Years ago (decades actually) I remember a study that linked overweight people to welfare. The study blamed cheap foods (wheat, rice, potatoes) as having high calorie content.... and the poor having less food/nutritional knowledge.

But even if the study was correct 30 years ago.... I don't think that applies any longer. 

I know this is completely anecdotal but half of the doctors and nurses at the healthcare center I use have weight problems. Over the years.... I noticed some have gone from plump to so heavy they have trouble walking. 

My own doctor... who is a friend of mine.... struggles with his weight and has for years. Like most GP's he isn't a dietitian anymore than I am. But he is one of the smartest people I know. 

Before I retired... the office where I worked was filled with well paid and educated professionals.... almost all of which were very over-weight. And... I just happen to know that even our military struggles with (over) weight issues among it's members.


----------



## nOOky

That's funny Dave, because I came from a poor family, and I never ate so well as when I went into the Army. I gained 20 pounds in the first year alone! The food was awesome.


----------



## misterwaterfallin

Cinelli 82220 said:


> In America urban design favours automobile travel and walking is discouraged. If you live in the suburbs it can be a very long walk to get to any shopping. And lugging a bunch groceries back home is not practical. Comparing American suburban living to city life in Scandinavia is unrealistic.
> And many people work in big industrial parks, there is nowhere to walk to for a healthy lunch. Even riding a bike in some of these parks is hazardous since the access roads are full of semis and cranky commuters.


Personally, there is no way in hell that I am walking to the store. Hell, I will park in the visitor or handycap spot in front of my condo to save myself the extra 50 feet to my car and back if I have to make multiple trips unloading my groceries. 
I did spend 16 or 17 hours on the bike last week though, so maybe it evens out


----------



## Oxtox

gandy-dancer said:


> If that is the case then I, for one, would rather the US' overweight prevalance increase to 99% than have it adopt other countries' *WACK* cultural idiosyncracies...


you won't have too long to wait...

freakin' Americans are blowing up like party balloons...

makes the little movie Wall-E look like a documentary.


----------



## Cinelli 82220

looigi said:


> Perhaps people who have careers and earn more money are more ambitious and intelligent so are more aware and diligent about eating properly and exercising?


^ An ignorant generalisation that belongs in P.O.

There's lots of idiots who are obese and have money, and lots of hard working people who have little.


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## Dave Cutter

nOOky said:


> That's funny Dave, because I came from a poor family, and I never ate so well as when I went into the Army. I gained 20 pounds in the first year alone! The food was awesome.


LOL. Yeah... I sort of know what you mean. I also enjoyed many of the Army meals... _back in the day_. But in my case I just like the receipts. 

Very few troops use "mess halls" now-a-days. And most are very health and diet aware as well. 

I don't know why even the young and fit seemingly struggle with weight problems. I don't have the answer.



Oxtox said:


> freakin' Americans are blowing up like party balloons...
> makes the little movie Wall-E look like a documentary.


I thought of that movie (and the ships captain) while talking with my brother the other day. He has gotten so huge he now uses an electric assist chair to help him stand up.


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## phoehn9111

Meh, this whole thread doesn't belong in the racing\training forum. Probably doesn't even belong in RBR. Everybody in here already knows enough nutritional basics applying
to themselves and what they need to do or already doing. Basically a matter of fine-tuning at this point. Of course most experienced cyclists are worlds more healthy than
the 99.5% sedentary public. So what of it? I'm not going to get on my orators platform and try to convert the world. BTDT. Also, I do not derive any schadenfreude by indirectly sensing the inherent superiority of my way of life (and even that is debatable). Lastly, applying any analysis on the myriad of cause and effects leading
to the general decline in health and fitness, well, frankly it may be selfish of me but
I see no personal benefit to my training to knowing all the pitfalls. I already know my
own weaknesses and a sociological treatise is nonsiqitir.


----------



## James6b

phoehn9111 said:


> Meh, this whole thread doesn't belong in the racing\training forum. Probably doesn't even belong in RBR. Everybody in here already knows enough nutritional basics applying
> to themselves and what they need to do or already doing. Basically a matter of fine-tuning at this point. Of course most experienced cyclists are worlds more healthy than
> the 99.5% sedentary public. So what of it? I'm not going to get on my orators platform and try to convert the world. BTDT. Also, I do not derive any schadenfreude by indirectly sensing the inherent superiority of my way of life (and even that is debatable). Lastly, applying any analysis on the myriad of cause and effects leading
> to the general decline in health and fitness, well, frankly it may be selfish of me but
> I see no personal benefit to my training to knowing all the pitfalls. I already know my
> own weaknesses and a sociological treatise is nonsiqitir.


This discussion absolutly belongs here. While, yes, most of us are pretty healthy. We like bikes and we like to ride fast, fun, etc, etc. The discussion belongs here because it belongs everywhere until we can halt the process.


----------



## Notvintage

ColoradoMike said:


> What's with cyclists being big drinkers? I thought that was a hipster thing.


I wouldn't call Jacques Anquetil a hipster, and he drank quite a bit of alcohol while in competition. Most cyclists are know are dainty in regards to drinking. But alcohol does not make one fat; it's the stuff you eat after drinking when your blood sugar crashes that will pork you out.


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## huber

I constantly hear people blaming genetics for their obesity. Genetically caused obesity does happen but is very rare.

On the other side of things health nuts have gone off the deep end making things overly complicated. One day eggs are good for you the next they are bad, then good again. (same applies to bread). We make things way to complicated and people get over whelmed. People feel like in order to eat healthy the will have to only eat tofu and wheat grass.

We need people to start with the basics: 
Output more than you input and you will get skinnier
Input more than you output and you will get fatter

Once you have mastered these basics you can move on to advanced topics like Tofu vs. lean meats.

Anecdotal but:
I eat fast food / frozen pizzas all of the time, drink alcohol pretty much every day. I stay a lean 205 by rowing almost every day with some cycling and running mixed in for cross training. (205 sounds big to cyclists, but rowers are built a little differently)


----------



## sdeeer

huber said:


> Anecdotal but:
> I eat fast food / frozen pizzas all of the time, drink alcohol pretty much every day. I stay a lean 205 by rowing almost every day with some cycling and running mixed in for cross training. (205 sounds big to cyclists, but rowers are built a little differently)


Not a comment on YOU per se...

But to illustrate for the others, weight is just one number in a myriad of health factors.

If the majority of your diet QUALITY is poor (aka lacking nutrients) there is evidence that your health is less than optimal even if your weight is 'Fine'

It is all about perspective and context.

Note that I am not saying that the foods listed are inherently bad. Just that the inclusion of more nutrient dense options at the base of the diet is a good choice for health. 

And key to this....Athletes have more 'room' in their diet for less than optimal choices due to the overall caloric load they require. But they still 'need' nutrients from food sources.

Otherwise TPN would be teh AwEsoME.


----------



## velodog

It ain't what you eat on the holidays that matters, it's what you eat the rest of the time that does.


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## Cinelli 82220

huber said:


> people blaming genetics for their obesity


The human genome hasn't changed much in the last few thousand years. Obesity has increased from oddity to epidemic. So yes, that argument is invalid.

I'm on another forum where obesity is being discussed and some of the women are going ballistic...it's pretty funny.


----------



## Red90

It's not the genetics. Humans have evolved in the last several thousands of years. The problem is it can't adapt and change as fast as the world and the type of food is changing in the last 100 years.

Ever wonder why food taste good and we crave sugars and fats? Our bodys are programmed from our evolution as hunters and gatherers to equate these high energy and fatty foods as good for us as it gives us stored energy when food is scarce.

The problem is that food is not scarce any more and foods are all processed. Our brain still sees this type of food as good so we eat a lot of it when we can.

The availability of food matched with the increase in sedentary lifestyle where we don't burn off many calories leads to a higher probability of obesity.

Of course this is a generalization, as there are genuinely people that have genetic abnormalities that lead to obesity, but that is more of an exception rather than the norm.


----------



## huber

Cinelli 82220 said:


> The human genome hasn't changed much in the last few thousand years. Obesity has increased from oddity to epidemic. So yes, that argument is invalid.
> 
> I'm on another forum where obesity is being discussed and some of the women are going ballistic...it's pretty funny.


Yes we live in a society where everyone is a victim. No one is responsible for their situation.


----------



## Wyville

Cinelli 82220 said:


> I'm on another forum where obesity is being discussed and some of the women are going ballistic...it's pretty funny.


I would say link them to the post by Red90. Our brains reward us for high caloric food intake because it's an evolutionary remnant. It makes food addictive and people suffering from obesity will display all the behaviours of an addict, including denial, lying and manipulation.

Of course that's not the full story as there are often contributing factors such as comfort eating, but the core is that reward given in the brain.


----------



## icemonkey

Its all a very simple thing. We have evolved to run through the woods, killing prey, eating carrion and gathering nuts, leafy stuff and berries. That's a calorific lifestyle. Even 100 years ago we would mostly have been on farms ploughing fields or chopping trees or some such high intensity activity then go home and eat minimally processed calorie light food. Today you get more calories in a chocolate bar than most of our distant ancestors would have had in a day. Yep our food is full of chemicals and genetically adapted past anything our digestive tracts have witnessed on 150,000 years of evolution (closer to a few million years) but we simply eat too much and are too lazy. 
Evolution.


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## petalpower

Go grocery shopping like this, and more than likely the problem will sort itself out...


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## sdeeer

gandy-dancer said:


> Tasty? No question! Healthier than the equivalent volume in Pringles™? Certainly! Macronutritionally-balanced? I think you might have *a problem* of a different sort on that one.
> 
> 
> *Hardly any* protein? *NO* fat? *NO* whole grains? *NO* pulses/legumes? *NO* nuts/seeds?
> 
> Nobody loves fruit and veggies more than I do. Trust me. But if that was all *I* ate, I'd feel hungry ALL the time.


In that list, only protein and essential fatty acids are essential nutrients.

Just sayin'.........

You might get some of the EFA's in the nuts, but we don't '*need*' beans and whole grains....

{not saying they are bad per se....But the "need" as in essential to a diet is a flawed argument}


----------



## petalpower

gandy-dancer said:


> Tasty? No question! Healthier than the equivalent volume in Pringles™? Certainly! Macronutritionally-balanced? I think you might have *a problem* of a different sort on that one.
> 
> 
> *Hardly any* protein? *NO* fat? *NO* whole grains? *NO* pulses/legumes? *NO* nuts/seeds?
> 
> Nobody loves fruit and veggies more than I do. Trust me. But if that was all *I* ate, I'd feel hungry ALL the time.


That was just to re-up most of my supply.

For protein, I'll eat eggs for breakfast, and grilled chicken on my salads. I eat raw almonds daily- about a handful. Don't eat much bread anymore ( not sure why, and perhaps its one of the reasons I always feel fatigued?) but do eat copious amounts of legumes. Lentils and Kidney beans mostly.


----------



## Red90

petalpower said:


> Go grocery shopping like this, and more than likely the problem will sort itself out...


If North Americans ate like that, we would solve the majority of health problems, save in medicare and the government wouldn't shut down.

Problem is americans are in a downward spiral where people are tired... they gravitate towards the high sugar and processed foods to satiate themselves... then quickly drop back down in energy... it's a viscous cycle. If people would adopt a good diet and exercise they would have so much more energy and not be as prone to health issues. I know, it's a lot easier said than done.

Key is to understand what is happening in our brains and to try not to listen to it. It's like for me to quit smoking... done it a few times... hopefully this time it works... but damn... my brain is telling me I want one, but I must keep steady cause I'll feel much better in the long run and not have as big of a craving.


----------



## huber

petalpower said:


> Go grocery shopping like this, and more than likely the problem will sort itself out...


The bacon and snack cakes are hidden underneath.


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## SNS1938

petalpower said:


> Go grocery shopping like this, and more than likely the problem will sort itself out...


Just one change needed, some reusable bags rather than all that packaging ... then it's perfect. Good work.


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## SNS1938

SNS1938 said:


> Just one change needed, some reusable bags rather than all that packaging ... then it's perfect. Good work.


Oh, and loading it into some bicycle panniers rather than a car.


----------



## Bill2

icemonkey said:


> Its all a very simple thing. We have evolved to run through the woods, killing prey, eating carrion and gathering nuts, leafy stuff and berries. That's a calorific lifestyle. Even 100 years ago we would mostly have been on farms ploughing fields or chopping trees or some such high intensity activity then go home and eat minimally processed calorie light food. Today you get more calories in a chocolate bar than most of our distant ancestors would have had in a day. Yep our food is full of chemicals and genetically adapted past anything our digestive tracts have witnessed on 150,000 years of evolution (closer to a few million years) but we simply eat too much and are too lazy.
> Evolution.


I go to Italian class with many immigrants from eastern Europe, Africa, Asia and it is striking- only 1 out of 50 is noticeably overweight. One classmate mentioned visiting a relative who'd emigrated to the US and noticing how huge all the portions in the supermarkets and dining places were, and correspondingly how swollenly huge the people were. It was interesting hearing how it appears through non-American eyes.


----------



## Alfonsina

What is this fantasy of Eurotopia LOL. America, like Europe, is made up of geographical variability in it's people, go visit the healthy parts of the healthy states to compare to your rich white Euro types, visit Glasgow to compare with your Southern poor. Glasgow is part of E Europe. 
"
1. Obesity rates are low in Italy, relative to most OECD countries, but are very high among children. About 1 in 10 people is obese in Italy, significantly less than the OECD average of 1 in 6. More than 1 in 2 men and 1 in 3 women are overweight. OECD projections indicate that overweight rates will increase by a further 5% within ten years*. In Italy, 1 in 3 children is overweight, one of the highests rate in the OECD."*

What about the children LOL. Fat ****ers over 60? All good for UHC and private health care alike, porky as a kid though, years to make society pay.


----------



## nOOky

I was thinking about this thread today... People don't really have to take care of themselves. There is no need to walk or exercise, cars and parking lots and buildings are designed for fat lazy people. Drugs are available to lower your blood pressure, give you erections, keep your heart pumping, ease the gastric issues of stress and a poor diet, the list goes on. Fat people are accepted as the norm because most people are fat, and those that are normal or slightly under normal weight are perceived as sickly or unhealthy. 

People are into instant gratification. It could be cell phones with Facebook and Twitter, or snack cakes and hamburgers for dinner because cooking a meal is too much effort for a fat person that "worked" all day in front of a computer. In the near future gene therapy may allow people to eat whatever they want and not gain weight. Meanwhile, the people with the longest lives on the planet basically live on a starvation diet. Go figure.


----------



## Dave Cutter

petalpower said:


> Go grocery shopping like this, and more than likely the problem will sort itself out...


That so much looks like my shopping cart. I say my cart... because the wife allows me to push it when I go with her. 

We do also buy meat. I try to (roughly) follow the four ounces a day... that I believe is the recommended amount. I/we also include whole grains with pasta, bread, and breakfast cereals. 

I make a point to include small amounts of nuts (not peanuts) and seeds like pumpkin and sunflower to my diet (I add them to my salad). 

My downfall is sweets... they call to me. I constantly have to talk myself out of an ice cream cone, donut, or candy bar.


----------



## kjdhawkhill

tmartinez said:


> Best nugget of advice I ever got for weight loss and exercise: You can't out-exercise a bad diet.


with the right DNA anything is possible. 

Some of us, in the weight room, are called "hard-gainers" where we just can't put on any muscle over a certain plateau. 

I can basically control my weight between 175 and 195 by varying the amount, if any, of cardio, but at 6-3, I can't hit 200.


----------



## kjdhawkhill

I'm only around 185(6-3) but I think about the clyde wheelsets 'cause I ride like an uncoordinated elephant regardless of my BMI.


----------



## Dave Cutter

And now we know: *College study finds Oreo cookies are as addictive as drugs*

Students at Connecticut College found that when the rats ate Oreos they formed an equally strong association with the cookies as when other rats were injected with cocaine or morphine.

Food is apparently.... addictive.


----------



## Wyville

Dave Cutter said:


> Food is apparently.... addictive.


Specific foods are addictive, namely; high caloric, high sugar, high fat foods. Those stimulate the reward center in the brain and it releases opioid peptides. So yes, food can be very addictive and morbidly obese people often display the same symptoms as drug addicts (lying, manipulation, etc.). That is also the reason why it is so difficult to lose weight for people who are used to a diet of fast food and snacks. It creates withdrawl symptoms.


----------



## Terex

Just got back from a trip to Moscow, Russia and Oxford, UK. Didn't see a single massively overweight person. Didn't even see very many heavy people. US is a disaster zone for overweight people.

PS: Walked MY butt off while I was there. I think europeans walk a heck of a lot more than people in the US.


----------



## Jay Strongbow

Terex said:


> Just got back from a trip to *Moscow, Russia and Oxford, UK*. Didn't see a single massively overweight person. Didn't even see very many heavy people. US is a disaster zone for overweight people.
> 
> PS: Walked MY butt off while I was there. I think europeans walk a heck of a lot more than people in the US.


If you went to New York City and Cambridge MA in the US you probably wouldn't see a single massively obese person and many overweight people either. (NYC and Cambridge is my rough guess at being to the US what Moscow and Oxford are to Yurp) You'd do a ton of walking in either to get around also.

I don't necessarily disagree with your points......just that a couple stops as a tourists never tells the story of a whole country or continent.


----------



## Jay Strongbow

nOOky said:


> I was thinking about this thread today... People don't really have to take care of themselves. There is no need to walk or exercise, cars and parking lots and buildings are designed for fat lazy people. Drugs are available to lower your blood pressure, give you erections, keep your heart pumping, ease the gastric issues of stress and a poor diet, the list goes on. Fat people are accepted as the norm because most people are fat, and those that are normal or slightly under normal weight are perceived as sickly or unhealthy.


That's a good point. 

It's kind of ironic that those things developed about the same time that working out just for the sake of working out and nutrition education became more wide spread.

I'm 48 so remember when fat wasn't much of an issue and off course have had a front row seat for the ballooning. 
When my grandparents and parents were younger they didn't have gyms and people who ran or jogged were viewed as ecentric weirdos and they really didn't have much of a clue about nutrition. Yet they were mostly slim. Then along comes increased popularity in formal exercise and nutrition education and people blow up. Go figure.
So you must have hit upon the difference between now and then that's a large part of the cause.


----------



## den bakker

Jay Strongbow said:


> If you went to New York City and Cambridge MA in the US you probably wouldn't see a single massively obese person and many overweight people either. (NYC and Cambridge is my rough guess at being to the US what Moscow and Oxford are to Yurp) You'd do a ton of walking in either to get around also.
> 
> I don't necessarily disagree with your points......just that a couple stops as a tourists never tells the story of a whole country or continent.


pretty much, some of the UK country side is pretty grim in that regard.


----------



## Bill2

Terex said:


> I think europeans walk a heck of a lot more than people in the US.


I think you're generally correct. I know many folks with no car here (country village, our nearest "big city" has maybe 60,000 people). Most people walk/bike or take the bus for medium length trips, train for longer trips. Some people with cars use them for all trips but many leave them parked most of the time (gas is $9-10 per gallon).


----------



## Terex

Jay Strongbow said:


> If you went to New York City and Cambridge MA in the US you probably wouldn't see a single massively obese person and many overweight people either. (NYC and Cambridge is my rough guess at being to the US what Moscow and Oxford are to Yurp) You'd do a ton of walking in either to get around also.
> 
> I don't necessarily disagree with your points......just that a couple stops as a tourists never tells the story of a whole country or continent.


I understand what you're saying, and generally agree. What I didn't say is that my son, who has lived in Russia for about 10 yrs., and has lived in a variety of places outside of Moscow, big and small, has made the same observation when returning for visits to the U.S.

And I'll add my experience working and traveling in Germany, Austria and Australia. Just haven't seen the numbers of morbidly obese, many times young people, that we have in the U.S. And in the U.S. in the last 3 years, I've driven cross country several times from NJ to NM, driven to and stayed in Ohio, visited Florida, NC, SC, VA, DC, driven from NM to SLC and back, etc. and have a lot of first hand exposure to the population of the U.S. It's not pretty.


----------



## ashpelham

tmartinez said:


> Best nugget of advice I ever got for weight loss and exercise: You can't out-exercise a bad diet.
> 
> I know too many friends and family hit the gym or a 30 minute bike ride thinking they are doing something good, then reward themselves afterwards on a 1000 calorie dense, nutrition light meal in a single sitting. Then they wonder why they didn't lose weight, but gained some.
> 
> Highly processed food is addictive, and is engineered that way. Lots of sugars, fats, and salt. It's what our bodies and minds crave until it's an addiction in the most literal sense.
> 
> Manufacturing technology is now giving us these foods at a cheaper cost. I can fill up my entire fridge with highly processed foods at the same cost and filling it half way with raw fruits, vegatables, and lean meats.
> 
> While the cost of frozen pizzas, bags of chips, and sodas go down, the cost of peaches, raw veggies, and meats skyrocket.


Thank you, Tmartinez for everything you wrote here. Two points immediately come to mind. First point is that I've become habitually bad at working my tail off running or recently, biking again. Thousands of calories expended, I'm sure. Riding in hilly central Alabama will give you some climbing legs and a huge appetite. So, I wind up riding the parks and streets here, and seeing a lot of heavy cyclists. Don't see that many runners who truly run and have been at it for while, with a weight problem. The joints and bones just can't take the jarring of the running over the years. Losing weight is natural to runners and necessary, one could argue. 

Second point is about the cost of crap food versus the good stuff. Our leaders keep telling us we have low inflation, yet it seems everything that is necessary or desirable has risen dramatically in price. Healthy, pure foods are a great example. Overly-processed, HFCS loaded foods have barely budged in price. So, this dychotomy is a double edged sword. Incomes haven't risen commiserate (sp) with the costs of the better stuff, so cheap stuff in the form of cheetos and Little Debbie snacks has taken over. 

Thank you again for your thought provoking comments, and this topic. I'm in economics and obviously my physical fitness is important. Watching my weight climb as our household income has dropped in the past 10 years has been a direct, anecdotal illustration. Of course, the fact that I'm 10 years older can't be ignored, but I'm still in my mid 30's and active, and I know what the grocery bill has become, as we strive to make better quality choices for our family. 10 years ago feeding 3 was a 125.00 trip every 2 weeks. Now, feeding 4, we have doubled on average to 250.00, and have more junk and processed blech.


----------



## ashpelham

One more thing about this topic that I find odd: healthy eating and living is something that the big mainstream retailers talk about in January. The rest of the year, it's pushing candy and comfort in front of us all the time. Walk into Target right now and look what's front and center: hershey's, cadbury, and everything like it. In another month, we'll be full force into Christmas, with sugar, sugar, and sugar the main topics. Fast forward to January 1, and everything is sports gear, workout DVD's, and being a healthy. So pictures of waif-like women in yoga pants, working out will be in front of every overweight hawg and heffer that walks in the place.

Sorry for the bluntness. Sadly, every pair of pants I own is tighter than a year ago, and it's Monday .


----------



## upstateSC-rider

ashpelham said:


> One more thing about this topic that I find odd: healthy eating and living is something that the big mainstream retailers talk about in January. The rest of the year, it's pushing candy and comfort in front of us all the time. Walk into Target right now and look what's front and center: hershey's, cadbury, and everything like it. In another month, we'll be full force into Christmas, with sugar, sugar, and sugar the main topics. Fast forward to January 1, and everything is sports gear, workout DVD's, and being a healthy. So pictures of waif-like women in yoga pants, working out will be in front of every overweight hawg and heffer that walks in the place.
> 
> Sorry for the bluntness. Sadly, every pair of pants I own is tighter than a year ago, and it's Monday .


Don't leave it to retailers to look out for you, they're only after sales...Halloween/Comfort food for the holidays and trying to cash in on people that make New Years resolutions on Jan 1st.


----------



## redliner

tmartinez said:


> Best nugget of advice I ever got for weight loss and exercise: You can't out-exercise a bad diet.
> 
> I know too many friends and family hit the gym or a 30 minute bike ride thinking they are doing something good, then reward themselves afterwards on a 1000 calorie dense, nutrition light meal in a single sitting. Then they wonder why they didn't lose weight, but gained some.
> 
> Highly processed food is addictive, and is engineered that way. Lots of sugars, fats, and salt. It's what our bodies and minds crave until it's an addiction in the most literal sense.
> 
> Manufacturing technology is now giving us these foods at a cheaper cost. I can fill up my entire fridge with highly processed foods at the same cost and filling it half way with raw fruits, vegatables, and lean meats.
> 
> While the cost of frozen pizzas, bags of chips, and sodas go down, the cost of peaches, raw veggies, and meats skyrocket.


A lot of good replies on this thread, but this one seems to summarise it best.


----------



## ColoradoMike

cyclisme! said:


> Your story parallels mine. I used to have a professional job in engineering. Had memberships at both a gym and a climbing gym. Rode 5 days a week. I had excellent healthcare and used it a number of times (have had none for 6 years now). Shopped at whole foods. Went out often to high-quality restaurants...always good fresh food. Portland is a foodie's delight, but these little gourmet meals are spendy as hell.
> 
> Over the last 6 years however, I am obliged to shop at Safeway or Winco. I can't afford organic, non-gmo. I can't buy the $8 local cheese, I have to buy the $3 cheese made somewhere in Illinois. Nor the $5 good bread, I get the $1 pack of bleached enriched English muffins. Forget the $3 organic avocado, I get the $1 one that is nowhere near ripe. Cage-free hormone-free eggs? I wish... Like you say, pasta features a few days a week.
> I just started a new job which ties me up 13 hrs/day with commute. It's the first job I could find in 3 years. It has put an abrupt end to my great cycling form. I can see that the new norm for me, as a technical but non-professional, will be I work many more hours for half my old pay, which leaves me little time to ride, and I will rarely summon the motivation for the gym this winter. I've already gone from a few beers a week, to a 1-2 beers a day, to 2-3 pints if out at a pub. That will have to stop to avoid getting a gut and alcoholism. But I can see how it starts for so many...


Wow this thread got really popular. I totally know how you feel. I've been out of steady work for around 3 years now. I've done a few 1099 jobs here and there but nothing permanent. The BIG problem now is my lifestyle has completely changed. Since I started cycling again in May it has become my #1 hobby. I mean this is the first year I'm working with an indoor trainer. 

Now that I'm in great shape and have taken cycling to a level I've never been before, I'm picky when it comes to jobs. There might be jobs out there but we all know most of them are not living wage jobs. I feel like a sucker if I give up my new lifestyle only to be a tad richer and a lot less happy.


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## Bevo

Don't forget the cost of food, a big bag of pasta and big can of meat sauce is pennies a serving so easy to eat lots. Good lean meats, fruit and veggies are expensive and require preperation and time before eating.

Another thing I notice is people eat until the are stuffed not satisfied. At our recent Christmas party I noticed all the thinner or active people were done eating first with food on the plate. When dessert came most ate like starving animals but again the fit people just sampled.
it was really obvious and not intentional but what was even more interesting was the shaming and not of the big people but thin!
We were called anorexic, told we have eating disorders all kinds of crap till I lost it. The comments were light hearted but hurtful and one of the smaller girls was getting upset so I spoke up.
I asked the smaller girl what her body fat was, she caught on and said 21% I said I was 18 as per my last test and they laughed saying they were 50% or more. Once they stopped I explained what a healthy % was and what morbidly obese was and included all the health issues related. They were not laughing anymore, I was a total downer but could not care less..

sorry that was long..


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## mathewright

*Cuz we have no any another donkey works*

My tittle Looks strange but we are not doing any other things like Runing on any track , we feel tired and tired for what .. Its continuously sitting on the chair .. Speacialy to a programing field .. we should have to do some another activity to maintain our self , health and Fatness


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## spade2you

I seem to be losing weight while eating the stuff that everyone claims will only make us fat.


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## Alaska Mike

spade2you said:


> I seem to be losing weight while eating the stuff that everyone claims will only make us fat.


Me too. At a certain point, I decided that I would eat the foods I wanted, just not so much of them. My "diets" are nothing more than me tracking calories. Unfortunately, I have no interest in eating most of the food classified as "nutrient dense", but I find that as I limit my intake I eventually naturally gravitate towards food that keeps me satisfied longer and provides a decent amount of energy.

My metabolism said goodbye a decade and a half ago. I have 4 kids, one of which is a couple weeks old. I get little sleep as it is, and then compound it by waking up early to ride the trainer every morning. I don't always make sound dietary choices, and often opt for expediency. Somehow I still lose weight when I want to.

I chalk it up to moving and moderation. These are concepts most people don't understand.


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## Dave Cutter

spade2you said:


> I seem to be losing weight while eating the stuff that everyone claims will only make us fat.


It seems to me that whatever I eat... someone thinks it is the wrong thing. 

To be dead honest.... I really don't feel like I have a real grip on what is a "proper diet". I know _just a little_ about feed requirements for different breads of livestock.... and I have wondered if human bodies also adapt to regional diets as well. 

Meanwhile.... *I read and think about all the input and ideas I see here*... but pretty much follow what the CDC recommends... at least for now. I wish there was more nutritional knowledge.... real, actual, useable, knowledge... instead of just theories. I find I have less food cravings when I avoid sugar, and sweet foods. I wonder.... if I should eat less fruit and more meat. 

The weather (and a cold) has kept me off my bicycle for nearly a month. I've gained a little holiday weight... nothing I am worried about. But, I am glad to be back to my normal eating habits... now with all the holiday parties coming to an end. 

I've struggled to fine good winter exercise that I can enjoy. The other day I started working on core strength with a little (dumbbell) weight training.


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## spade2you

I eat the most amount of bad foods among anyone I know. I also somehow have better blood pressure, cholesterol numbers, and am in better shape than all of them. It helps that I do more cardio than several of them put together.


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## Alaska Mike

It's shocking when I look at my old high school yearbook from 25 years ago, and everyone looks so skinny. Our "fat" kids (the ones we teased mercillessly) would be considered "normal" in my son's high school. There are some skinny/healthy kids in his school that lead active lifestyles, and there are the ones that have a typical hyperactive teenage metabolism, but there are some really, really obese kids roaming the halls.

I was a literal garbage dump for junk food in my teens and 20s, despite my mom's best efforts. I ate a ton of fast food and vast quantites of everything else. I drank 2 liter bottles of soda every day. I was 5'11"/145lbs when I entered basic training, and gained weight because my activity level went down.

While the ingredients in modern food might have a part in the obesity epidemic, I think relative inactivity has a larger role. Once you stop moving, its too easy to stuff your face with whatever is in easy reach, and the downward spiral begins. At least that's what happened in my late 20s/early 30s. I had a skinny body image, so I didn't see it happening until it was too late and I had gained 100lbs in 15 years. What it took to turn it around was to start moving again. Even without a youthful metabolism, I knocked the majority of it off without changing my horrible eating habits. The rest is a combination of diet and finding a balance between cycling and the rest of my life.


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## spade2you

I'm about 15 years out from high school. Growing up, there was always *the* fat kid. Definitely not the case today. I think being the small kid made me fast because I had to run from bullies. I think most of my former bullies are now fat, so I could probably just walk to escape them. 

It's kinda funny how fad diets and GNC type diet supplements are so popular. If short cuts worked, they wouldn't be called shortcuts.


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## spade2you

salary.man said:


> You are *NOT* _what_ you eat..you are _*how much*_ you eat...


If you ride enough, this doesn't really matter. I ate 1/2 of a large pizza the other day and had a few beers. This was also after a 3 hour roller ride.


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## NJBiker72

spade2you said:


> If you ride enough, this doesn't really matter. I ate 1/2 of a large pizza the other day and had a few beers. This was also after a 3 hour roller ride.


There are plenty of days I try and disprove the old you can't out exercise a bad diet axiom. Probably why my weight is at a platoon.


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## velodog

What if they like pizza?


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## spade2you

NJBiker72 said:


> There are plenty of days I try and disprove the old you can't out exercise a bad diet axiom. Probably why my weight is at a platoon.


I realize my metabolism will eventually slow down. I'll have to eat less or possibly ride more. By that time, hopefully I have enough vacation time to just take days here n' there.


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## jlandry

I bet your pizza delivery guy also posts totally irrelevant comments on bike forums.


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## al0

There is no such thing as a "crap" food - it is a pure marketing hype.


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## landbeast

As to the OP's original question of "then vs. now."

HFCS

Crystalline corn syrup was developed in the mid-1950’s, and proved it could compete with sugar, but it wasn’t until 1967 that they were able to convert dextrose to fructose and create HFCS. According to that article, it was the sweetener of choice for soft drinks by the mid-1980’s.

Blocks the bodies receptors that tell us we are full.


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## al0

While some opinion exists as for now it is generally considered as rather questionable, it seems that there is no noticeable difference in effects of consumption equal amounts of HFCS and other sugars (e.g. sucrose).

The most recent research once more prove a simple point - all depends on a balance "effective calories in" vs. "calories out" ("effective" regarding calories in means that you should count not an overall calories intake but only calories available to the body). In this case it does not matter much from the weight control point of view in which form calories are consumed (e.g white bread and fries vs. whole grain products and vegetables).


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## love4himies

Well, according to this person, it's not McDonalds, but the choices we make.

?Our choices make us fat, not McDonald?s?: U.S. science teacher mimics Super Size Me, says he lost 37 pounds, lowered his cholesterol | National Post



> ‘Our choices make us fat, not McDonald’s': U.S. science teacher mimics Super Size Me, says he lost 37 pounds, lowered his cholesterol





> He says he lost 37 pounds while on the all McDonald’s diet, and improved his overall cholesterol while also lowering his bad, or LDL, rate.


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## duriel

If a food has sugar or HFCS and it is not desert, I put it back on the shelf. 
Very simple.


----------



## wabasso

4Crawler said:


> I know what you mean. I was on the wrestling team while in High School and several seasons we could not get anyone to wrestle in the heavyweight class. I think one season we had a guy who could make the minimum weight (something around 180 lbs. as I recall). But one season for sure we did not have anyone that could meet the minimum weight, so one of the JV wrestlers, who weighed like 168lbs. normally, would chug 1-2 gallons of water/Tang prior to weigh in so he could make the minimum. He usually ended up getting beat if the heavy weight on the other team was rather fit, but every once in a while he would come up against a chunky opponent and he could often beat them with speed and agility.


I played Rugby in junior high, and high school. We decided to put our three biggest in the front line as props and hooker. I was the third biggest kid on the high school team at 172 pounds. I played hooker.

my guess is that school today, 172 might be almost the smallest kid on the team.


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## SBard1985

I went back home right before the holidays and saw a few old faces. I graduated high school in 03, and couldn't make it home for my 10 year, but I keep in decent contact with my good friends anyway. Everybody is huge! No joke, gigantic. I don't think it helps that I'm from Buffalo, NY, but my friends are disgusting looking. I live in Breckenridge, CO now and a few of them come visit me every year for snowboarding or mountain biking. Every year they get in noticeably worse shape. I have to tone down the time or type of terrain every visit because I honestly don't feel like they can make it down/up safely.

All that being said, I am by far the biggest person in my family. Not sure if it's genetics or all the crazy hormones and antibiotics they put in food these days. I'm 6-1 and about 155-160 lbs. My mom is like 5-6 100 lbs, dad is 5-10 140 lbs and my little bro is like 5-11 130 lbs. I'm not fat, but far bigger than everybody else in my family.


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## Dave Cutter

al0 said:


> .... The most recent research once more prove a simple point - all depends on a balance "effective calories in" vs. "calories out" ("effective" regarding calories in means that you should count not an overall calories intake but only calories available to the body). In this case it does not matter much from the weight control point of view in which form calories are consumed (e.g white bread and fries vs. whole grain products and vegetables).


You know.... *I find that to be an undeniable truth!* I believe that has even been proven in scientific tests decades ago.

If humans were fed like live stock our weights would be easy to control. I was in the Army and the portion controlled meals and routine exercise beefed up the skinny and slimmed down the overweight. The old fashioned balance meals and exercise regiment [has] made millions of young men the healthiest and fittest of their life.


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## Undecided

SBard1985 said:


> I went back home right before the holidays and saw a few old faces. I graduated high school in 03, and couldn't make it home for my 10 year, but I keep in decent contact with my good friends anyway. Everybody is huge! No joke, gigantic. I don't think it helps that I'm from Buffalo, NY, but my friends are disgusting looking. I live in Breckenridge, CO now and a few of them come visit me every year for snowboarding or mountain biking. Every year they get in noticeably worse shape. I have to tone down the time or type of terrain every visit because I honestly don't feel like they can make it down/up safely.
> 
> [/quote|
> 
> Twenty years out of HS, also an rust belt escapee to a Western mountain town (and still racing bikes and skiing pretty hard), I just suggest gentle walks when my HS and college friends visit.


----------



## aclinjury

spade2you said:


> If you ride enough, this doesn't really matter. I ate 1/2 of a large pizza the other day and had a few beers. This was also after a 3 hour roller ride.


Sorry pal but diet trumps exercise. Wait until you turn 40 and watch the snowball grow outta control. Plenty of 40-something guys who exercise a lot but their cholestrols and/or blood pressure can't be low like you think.

Heck when I was in college, I used to exercise twice per day on the track team. That's 3-4 hours/day, 5-6 days per week. Of course i ate burgers and fries, pizzas, chinese fast food, like nobody's business, thinking I was immune to the shiat because I was exercising and training like a pro. Cholestrol was around 130-140 at the time, and by most standards it was good for a person who ate so much shiat. My buddies who were also eating the same college shiat had their cholestrol in the 200s. Mind you we were college freshmen and sophomore kids, still teenagers, so we were young bucks.

Then after college and got a professional job, I stopped exercising. Luckily I knew that I had to curb my apetite and couldn't eat like I was in college. But I still kept eating the bad shiaty diet, just less. My cholestrol was about 140-160 by now. But by now I realize that as I age, this shiaty diet has to stop because the body coulnd't continue to compensate for the bad diet. 

So I started to change my diet. Then I picked up cycling again (I was into it before, but never took it seriously). I further honed down on my diet, cuting almost all fast food, tone down the meat, stick more to wild caught fish. Today, total choletrol is well under 100, with a very healthy HDL/LDL ratio. Not bad for a guy in his mid 30s.

If anyone who thinks that they can exercise their way out of a bad diet, just wait. Father time will have something to say down the road. 40-45 y/o seems to be the magic number when even healthy guys start to fall off the health cliff if they didn't take care of their bodies when they were younger.


----------



## spade2you

By the time I hit 40, I should have enough vacation time that I can take time off to ride more. I'm ~124lbs with awesome blood pressure and cholesterol numbers. If I stop cycling, I'll probably need to eat rabbit food.


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## aclinjury

spade2you said:


> By the time I hit 40, I should have enough vacation time that I can take time off to ride more. I'm ~124lbs with awesome blood pressure and cholesterol numbers. If I stop cycling, I'll probably need to eat rabbit food.


It's not always about the current health vital numbers now. Gotta think about the future. Like I said your body is still young enough that it can compensate for the bad diet. But your body is probably already taking on damages that the numbers are masking. I wish I had a better diet in college.


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## looigi

This is interesting. Primates (including humans) burn half the calories of typical mammals of the same size.

Primates: Now with only half the calories!


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## upstateSC-rider

I think it comes down to 'Carbs are cheap' and sugar tastes good.
Sure some people can make a healthy meal for under $4 but do people think that* most *people in the lower-income brackets are gonna try that? Hell no.


----------



## velodog

upstateSC-rider said:


> I think it comes down to 'Carbs are cheap' and sugar tastes good.
> Sure some people can make a healthy meal for under $4 but do people think that* most *people in the lower-income brackets are gonna try that? Hell no.


As long as we're generalizing, do you really believe that *most* people in *any* income bracket are gonna try that?

People want what's good, good for them is secondary. Don't matter if they got money or not.


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## SBard1985

Watched a pretty documentary on Netflix the other day "Hungry For Change". It gets a bit repetitive and is a bit bias, but really makes you realize that manufacturers market their food as "products" and not really as food anymore. They do talk about addictive additives in snack foods.
That recent study where they discovered that rats actually became addicted to oreos kind of sketches me out, just saying.


----------



## SBard1985

Watched a decent documentary on Netflix the other day "Hungry For Change". It gets a bit repetitive and is a bit bias, but really makes you realize that manufacturers market their food as "products" and not really as food anymore. They do talk about addictive additives in snack foods.
That recent study where they discovered that rats actually became addicted to oreos kind of sketches me out, just saying.


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## easyridernyc

*sugar*

screws up metabolism. processed foods, in cans, jars, plastic packaging, contain a lot of it, and its physically addicitve, so you eat, or want to eat more and more while not really satisfying any nutritive requirements. not good, especially for kids


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## looigi

Now this. It's not fast food? Fast food not the major cause of rising childhood obesity rates, study finds || UNC Gillings School of Global Public Health


----------



## PoisonDartFrog

Risky post here - I am jumping into a 6 month-old, 12+ page thread without having read each and every post...

I don't think its any one thing, IMO it's a combination of things working together:
1. Proliferation of processed foods, which use a lot of...
2. High Fructose Corn Syrup. More carbs/calories to get the same level of sweetness you get from cane sugar! This sh1t is in everything. too... How do you make cows fat? Feed them corn! What is HFCS made from? Yep.
3. A lot of fast foods are processed to make them easily and quickly servable - so more HFCS!
4. In general, people don't exercise nearly enough. In fact, a lot of people avoid any activity even remotely resembling exertion, like walking instead of driving, yard work, stairs vs elevator, etc.
5. Family culture. Some families are active, some aren't. Those kids tend to remain active, and so do thier kids. The inactive families pass those habits along as well, so it becomes a generational thing.
6. Technology. People prefer media, video games, etc. to other activities. Which can be okay, as long as there is a healthy balance. BTW I think this is also contributing to world idiocracy as well. It seems like no one ever picks up a book anymore.
7. Lack of food knowledge, in spite of educational attempts to the contrary. 
EDIT: 8. Portion sizes! Out of control, especially at restaurants. My wife and I often split an entree and feel satisfied. People have been conditioned to overeat by becoming used to excessive portion sizes.

Case in point, when the throwback Pepsi was on the shelves (made with cane sugar instead of HFCS) a co-worker said "just what you need - more sugar!". I pointed out that the cane sugar version had 1/3 fewer carbs and calories than the "regular" version with HFCS. People just don't know.

As another bit of anecdotal evidence, I was expat in Germany for 2 years back in 1999-2001 (no, not military). We ended up adopting a lot of local habits - we shopped 3-4x a week, small trips, bought fresh, whole foods, and cooked ourselves. We walked a lot, just because that's how it works when you go shopping. I rode my bike to work - nothing spectacular, just 5 miles each way (or 8km for my EU friends out there). When we did eat out, it was a sit-down restaurant. 

We didn't struggle with weight at all, and we ate well, and drank a LOT of wine and German beer. But as soon as we moved back to the States, we started putting on weight. Don't know what it was specifically, but there was something made a diff.


----------



## easyridernyc

looigi said:


> Now this. It's not fast food? Fast food not the major cause of rising childhood obesity rates, study finds || UNC Gillings School of Global Public Health


yeah that sounds like it might be right, as in 

not only do kids make lousy choices when given the opportunity (fast and junk food, candy, sugar, high calorie soft drinks, etc), but then when they get home, its sometimes just as bad because parents arent providing healthy alternatives. i.e also serving up quick and easy processed food. that they learned and were conditioned to eat as kids, so the cycle perpetuates, even worsens over time because the real problems arent considered from a cultural or sociological point of view. 

the thing is that fresh food is actually pretty tough to market and access, for consumers all across the socio-econmic spectrum. its a difficult calculus, actually, not only do parents and kids have to be motivated to make good decisions, they have to be educated, then they have to go out and make informed and educated decisions, then bring those decisions back home and implement them, then back out to the community, work, and school, then back home again, etc etc etc. its not easy, there are factors at play, things are moving fast out there, parents today have a tough job.

not to take the focus off of fast food, though. it remains, UNEQUIVOCALLLY, nasty and full of heart killing, cholestrerol and diabetes inducing, metabolism destroying, saturated fat. it will slow the normal development of, and eventually, kill your kid. i admit that im not a parent, and as i say, i dont judge the way anyone raises his kid out there today, it is tough, man. but if i were, i thnk one of things i would at least try to do would be to limit mc donalds to literally, once, maybe twice a month. the way i see it, and as a leading fast food vendor, they are one of the main culprits in promoting, nationally, prominently, shamelessly, poor eating habits. have a quick look at their menu....the calories, the sugar, the saturated fat. they dont just want you to keep coming back, they want you to become addicted to the bad stuff they feature in their food. as in dulling your senses, forcing you into continuing to make bad decisions, pass that decision making on to your kids, and trying, basically, to kill you. so that once you're gone, your kids can do the same thing, too...

sometimes that's the way marketing works. and the bigger the lie, sometimes, the more bold the company becomes in pushing it. ultimately, and as an industry leader, i think mc donalds can do much, much better....


----------



## sdeeer

I was with you right until you said "cholestrerol and diabetes inducing, metabolism destroying, saturated fat."

You need to get up to speed on the evidence regarding the relationship of dietary cholesterol and dietary saturated fat on diet related conditions before painting with such a broad brush.

I am not advocating unlimited intake of either cholesterol nor saturated fat, but both have been vilified beyond what the data supports. So much so that we think that many grain and lower fat foods are 'good' when adding some fat to vegetables would actually be a better lifestyle choice in the long run. Now, it is not that plain and simple or 'either / or.'

But as you say below the misunderstanding of the current state of the literature....."Fast' and 'highly processed' foods are actually designed to be addictive.

addictive is not the best word, but Dr. Guyenet has written extensively about 'food reward' and how these foods easily lead to over consumption of calories. 

My Wife was just on a morning news show discussing 'healthy' alternatives to the snack drawer. Education, motivation, and change is going to take a paradigm shift in American thinking about this issue.


----------



## easyridernyc

sdeeer said:


> I was with you right until you said "cholestrerol and diabetes inducing, metabolism destroying, saturated fat."
> 
> You need to get up to speed on the evidence regarding the relationship of dietary cholesterol and dietary saturated fat on diet related conditions before painting with such a broad brush.
> 
> I am not advocating unlimited intake of either cholesterol nor saturated fat, but both have been vilified beyond what the data supports. So much so that we think that many grain and lower fat foods are 'good' when adding some fat to vegetables would actually be a better lifestyle choice in the long run. Now, it is not that plain and simple or 'either / or.'
> 
> But as you say below the misunderstanding of the current state of the literature....."Fast' and 'highly processed' foods are actually designed to be addictive.
> 
> addictive is not the best word, but Dr. Guyenet has written extensively about 'food reward' and how these foods easily lead to over consumption of calories.
> 
> My Wife was just on a morning news show discussing 'healthy' alternatives to the snack drawer. Education, motivation, and change is going to take a paradigm shift in American thinking about this issue.


i think we're on the same page here. irrespective of whether saturated fat, especially, is the all out disease inducing heart killer some suppose it is, the point is, it should probably be eliminated-- like most all other substances humans are drawn to by corporate, food production interests--in EXCESS from a healthy, well rounded diet. finding that balance, and promoting holistic, well rounded alternatives is probably part of changing that paradigm. its not gonna be easy, i agree...


----------



## Alfonsina

sdeeer said:


> . Education, motivation, and change is going to take a paradigm shift in American thinking about this issue.


 You know, I don't think this is going to be the case. This is going to be class warfare at it's most visible. I think the US etc benefits in many ways when people die young and don't get to SS and medicare. Diabetes is mega buck business. Obesity will be attacked by big pharma when it makes more money from prevention, whereas now there is more money in treatment.


----------



## sdeeer

easyridernyc said:


> i think we're on the same page here. irrespective of whether *saturated fat*, especially, is the all out disease inducing heart killer some suppose it is, the point is, *it should probably be eliminated*-- like most all other substances humans are drawn to by corporate, food production interests--in EXCESS from a healthy, well rounded diet. finding that balance, and promoting holistic, well rounded alternatives is probably part of changing that paradigm. its not gonna be easy, i agree...


You do understand that saturated fat is a class of many different fat chain lengths which exist in multiple different foods.

Your statement is akin to saying don't eat any animal products because we must eliminate dietary saturated. That is a ridiculous statement which ignores the metabolic role of lipids in human fat oxidation. When we 'burn' fat, we are burning primarily saturated fat from dietary and/or previously stored lipids. 

But moving toward a healthy diet and lifestyle is key. But going on a diet for most is not sustainable. I am not saying 'diets' don't 'work', but 'diets' don't work for most for Eva........

Move toward health.


----------



## sdeeer

Alfonsina said:


> You know, I don't think this is going to be the case. This is going to be class warfare at it's most visible. I think the US etc benefits in many ways when people die young and don't get to SS and medicare. Diabetes is mega buck business. Obesity will be attacked by big pharma when it makes more money from prevention, whereas now there is more money in treatment.


Unfortunately, what you claim is the current path to a band aid "solution"

But that is what WE [the general American population] actually want. The pharm 'solution' is actually not a solution because it manages symptoms and/or does not eliminate the underlying CAUSE of the disease state.

So the TRUE solution (that lasts until mortality) is lifestyle change including diet, exercise, appropriate stress management, sleep, and meeting psycho / social needs......

but as we know....There is a pill for ALL THAT


----------



## looigi

sdeeer said:


> ... So the TRUE solution (that lasts until mortality) is lifestyle change including diet, exercise, appropriate stress management, sleep, and meeting psycho / social needs....


What's the cause in this case, and is lifestyle change, diet, exercise, stress management, sleep...addressing the cause or only treating the symptoms?

If the problems are due to the organism having changed either due to genetic, epigenetic or environmental factors then treating the cause means rectifying that change, not treating its symptoms with diet, exercise, stress management.... And it might well be that "pharma" is what will enable fixing it.


----------



## Oxtox

humans are inherently lazy.

it takes effort to exercise, effort to become educated about nutrition, and more effort to prepare proper meals.

path of least resistance is to sit on one's butt and eat processed insta-food.


----------



## easyridernyc

sdeeer said:


> You do understand that saturated fat is a class of many different fat chain lengths which exist in multiple different foods.
> 
> Your statement is akin to saying don't eat any animal products because we must eliminate dietary saturated. That is a ridiculous statement which ignores the metabolic role of lipids in human fat oxidation. When we 'burn' fat, we are burning primarily saturated fat from dietary and/or previously stored lipids.
> 
> But moving toward a healthy diet and lifestyle is key. But going on a diet for most is not sustainable. I am not saying 'diets' don't 'work', but 'diets' don't work for most for Eva........
> 
> QUOTE]
> 
> I'm not sure you looked at my statement in context, allow me to elucidate. what I said was eliminate saturated fat IN EXCESS, and strive to find an appropriate balance, whole grains, fruits, vegetables,legumes, fish, chicken, some red meat, in eating a well rounded diet. saturated fat is not at the top of that healthy pyramid in excessive amounts. period. I am sure there are proponents out there who would state that getting rid of saturated fats altogether is certainly not going to make you any sicker, especially if you substitute healthier foods for the filthy alternatives made most readily available by corporate food manufacturers, full of sodium, processed sugars, and processed fats, which make up too high of a percentage of common American diets.
> 
> I don't know, maybe modern medicine is behind the times, maybe doctors really DONT know what they're talking about. but to a MAN, EVERY cardiologist and heart expert, much less general practitioner that I have ever questioned about this issue look at me like I'm retarded, or insane, when I ask whether saturated fat may not be as bad for you as the totality of the objective research and evidence clearly suggests. what is really the myth here?
> 
> "Since the 1950s, it has been commonly believed that consumption of foods containing high amounts of saturated fatty acids (including meat fats, milk fat, butter, lard, coconut oil, palm oil, and palm kernel oil) is potentially less healthy than consuming fats with a lower proportion of saturated fatty acids. Sources of lower saturated fat but higher proportions of unsaturated fatty acids include olive oil, peanut oil, canola oil, avocados, safflower, corn, sunflower, soy, and cottonseed oils. the World Health Organization, the American Dietetic Association, the Dietitians of Canada, the British Dietetic Association, American Heart Association, the British Heart Foundation, the World Heart Federation,the British National Health Service, the United States Food and Drug Administration, and the European Food Safety Authority ALL advise that saturated fat IS A RISK FACTOR FOR CARDIOVASCULAR DISEASE..." period. in addition,
> 
> "The consumption of saturated fat is generally considered a risk factor for dyslipidemia, which in turn is a risk factor for some types of cardiovascular disease.There are strong, consistent, and graded relationships between saturated fat intake, blood cholesterol levels, and the mass occurrence of cardiovascular disease. Abnormal blood lipid levels, that is high total cholesterol, high levels of triglycerides, high levels of low-density lipoprotein (LDL, "bad" cholesterol) or low levels of high-density lipoprotein (HDL, "good" cholesterol) cholesterol ALL increase the risk of heart disease and stroke." we all knew that, right?
> 
> I think any responsible advocate of fat consumption necessarily has to refer to the preferability of unsaturated fats in eating a healthy and balanced diet. starting the conversation by implying that saturated fat, in itself, is actually HEALTHY for you, well, let's just say that makes it more difficult to hear where you may legitimately be coming from. even hooper's latest, 2011 study indicates that lowering fat intake decreases the risk of a "cardiovascular event," which I assume means, in many instances, an effin HEART ATTACK, by 14%. myocardial infarction, in my book, that's a pretty serious number. is a high caloric, high fat diet, as well as its obviously associated risks, really worth it?


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## The Weasel

People.
People are making themselves fat.


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## Alfonsina

I caught a little noise on NPR I think, about Katie Couric at sundance shilling her fat kid movie and she stated in one way or another that the food labeling is misleading in that it uses grams and people don't know what grams are. I am not sure who to feel more sorry for. The fact that it wouldn't matter to your average person if they saw sugar in teaspoons or gram weights, or the failure to grasp something as basic as a metric measure. I look at cereal for example, and see that added sugar is more than 1/4 of the serving size, and that doesn't seem to be a terribly abstract notion? I have kids, they go to school, they learn metric. 
The people you target are not looking at the ****ing food labels Katie LOL. Sure, the govt and food companies ARE conspiring to make people fat, but like smoking, people can make a choice. Poor uneducated people are much more susceptible, is it part of the govt plot? Sure it could be. The poor and uneducated have been stomped upon and exploited through history, why would it be different when it came to food. It is resource control, one way or another. But people like KC are part of the ruling class, don't pretend that you and Jamie Oliver are committed o saving the poor, the poor make great telly and movies, just ask the Australian juicing dick.


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## NJBiker72

The Weasel said:


> People.
> People are making themselves fat.


I cut people out of my diet. Too fatty.


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## .je

People are just fine, it's the processed modern stuff that is unhealthy:


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## Bill2

SofiaPeterson said:


> This problem is not limited to America, people all over the world are facing this problem. I think junk food and comfort lifestyle of people is responsible for it.


I think it's more a matter of degree. Maybe the problem has been around longer and has proliferated more in the US. That said, I haven't been back in 8 years so maybe the problem has turned around and Americans are shrinking now.


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