# New road bike



## fishboy316 (Feb 10, 2014)

Hi all,
Looked today at a 2013 Cannondale CAAD10 4. Really nice looking bike Didn't get to ride it which is probably a good thing! They had it a$1199 which looks like a really good price. almost whipped out the trek card bu showed some restraint for a change! Checked out a Trek Damone 1.0 yesterday but could not test ride it. There is still ice and snow here so gotta wait to ride em. The trek was rather impressive but i also really like a Cannondale. I think the caad 10 could be hard to beat at the price they have it at. 105 grouping and really light! It is also my size 60. The trek card is burning a hole in my wallet!!LOL. Any of you guys have any experience with these bikes? The cannondale is a 2013.My mtb is a cannondale lefty.The trek is carbon with I believe tiagra at $1999. So here I go again! Just finished this with the MTB! Time to go nuts again!!!
Thanks For Any Help!
Bill N+1!!!


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## Donn12 (Apr 10, 2012)

You have to ride them first. I also have a Flash and was set on a matching cannondale. three test rides later I wouldnt have taken it if it were free - I had thave a Cervelo. I was looking at a Synapse at the time and I actually have a caad10 105 downstairs that I am building.

Ride all the contenders and you will know.


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## adjtogo (Nov 18, 2006)

While I don't have any experience with either bikes, my recommendation would be to buy a bike with a groupset of 105 or higher. I wouldn't buy anything with Taigra or Sora. I agree, you need to take them out for a test ride. If it's still icy, then wait a while until the roads are clear. In the meantime, maybe keep looking around. Is there any other bike shop in your area, or are you tied into Trek or Cannondale because you have a Trek card?


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## wim (Feb 28, 2005)

adjtogo said:


> While I don't have any experience with either bikes, my recommendation would be to buy a bike with a groupset of 105 or higher. I wouldn't buy anything with Taigra or Sora.


You hear this all the time, but there's really no _performance_ reason to turn down a good deal just because it means riding with Tiagra or Sora. As a bonus, going with Sora or Tiagra gives you a chance to "upgrade," which comes in handy when the new has worn off the bike.


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## Rashadabd (Sep 17, 2011)

The only thing I will add is that those two bikes are worlds apart in terms of geometry. So pay particular attention to how you feel on the bikes over longer distance, etc. For instance, the headtube on the Caad 10 is race geo short and the Domane is a endurance oriented bike with a taller head tube and slightly longer chain stays. Both are good bikes that can be ridden fast, but they are different. Now might be a good time to read up on each bike before you test them. There isn't really a Domane 1.0 btw, so I am assuming you meant the 2.0. 

Cannondale CAAD10 Ultegra review | road.cc

Trek Domane 2.0 review - BikeRadar 

Trek Domane 2.3 review | road.cc

Cannondale CAAD10 4 Rival review - BikeRadar


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## Mr645 (Jun 14, 2013)

You have to ride them, see what fits and what feels good. I was pretty much set on a CAAD 8 105 rig and the store let me take one of their rental bikes on a 25 miles ride. The reach was too short for me, I needed larger frame but then it was too tall. So the CAAD 8 was just not a good fit for me.


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## adjtogo (Nov 18, 2006)

wim said:


> You hear this all the time, but there's really no _performance_ reason to turn down a good deal just because it means riding with Tiagra or Sora. As a bonus, going with Sora or Tiagra gives you a chance to "upgrade," which comes in handy when the new has worn off the bike.


So tell me, which is cheaper, buying a new bike with 105, or trying to spend extra money to upgrade later? It only makes sense to buy a complete bike with the 105 or above at a cheaper price, than to spend more money on a groupset later. That's where some cyclists with your mentality make mistakes. I have always purchased a bike with the groupset I wanted from the get-go. Spending money later on is just foolish.


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## wim (Feb 28, 2005)

adjtogo said:


> So tell me, which is cheaper, buying a new bike with 105, or trying to spend extra money to upgrade later?


It's not about what is cheaper. People have budgets, and there's much fun and satisfaction in improving what you have. Put the two together and my previous post (which is actually about performance) makes more sense than you think.


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## PJ352 (Dec 5, 2007)

First and foremost, ride, then decide. You can't stand in a showroom looking at bikes and decide which one is best for you. Get sized/ fitted and head out on the roads before opening your wallet. As others have mentioned, what _appears_ to be 'best' oftentimes, isn't.

On the topic of groupsets, I agree with wim. Drivetrains are wearable items, so, over time (and piecemeal) they're going to be replaced anyway. Don't get hung up on 'best' here, either. Lower end groupsets like Sora and Tiagra can be installed, adjusted and tuned to outperform a poorly setup DA groupset. 

The only (slight) advantage is to start with a 10 speed drivetrain, making a future upgrade less costly.

Initially, IME it's more important to match gearing to the riders fitness/ abilities and terrain.


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## wim (Feb 28, 2005)

PJ352 said:


> Lower end groupsets like Sora and Tiagra can be installed, adjusted and tuned to outperform a poorly setup DA groupset.


Absolutely. In fact, I just put a bike together for a young man who's perfectly happy with 8-speed for the foreseeable future, but wanted new stuff. I installed Shimano Claris (below Sora, gasp!) brake-shifters and derailleurs and have to say that shifting was a unmitigated pleasure during my 5-mile post-build test ride.


Just so I don't mislead beginners here: Not _recommending_ Claris here because you'd be stuck with 8-speed. My point is simply to confirm PJ's observation that low-end stuff can work beautifully.


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## fishboy316 (Feb 10, 2014)

Thanks guys. Am trying to put together a list of bikes I want to test ride. Not bound by trek card but hey if you buy a trek 12 mos same as cash! My cash stays doing what it is doing now! I was looking at trek as they are the closest lbs and they sell cannondale also. By no means bound to either brand.
thanks
Bill


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## tednugent (Apr 26, 2010)

adjtogo said:


> While I don't have any experience with either bikes, my recommendation would be to buy a bike with a groupset of 105 or higher. I wouldn't buy anything with Taigra or Sora. I agree, you need to take them out for a test ride. If it's still icy, then wait a while until the roads are clear. In the meantime, maybe keep looking around. Is there any other bike shop in your area, or are you tied into Trek or Cannondale because you have a Trek card?


Tiagra 4600 (and the Trek Domane 1.0 will have it) is a decent groupset. It does help that it is now a 10-speed. Are there better shifting and lighter groupsets? Of course! For more money.


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## fishboy316 (Feb 10, 2014)

I got to ride a couple bikes today. 1. Raleigh Ravenio 1. Liked the bike but seemed a bit small. Was a leftover 2013 and was $850. 2.Giant Defy 5. Fit much better but wasn't as smooth as the raleigh. Had sora grouping. 3. Giant Defy 1. XL frame fit real nice and was a very smooth shifting and pretty fast bike. 105 grouping.Nice bike! Fast and responsive! $1300. 4. Giant anyroad 1. Pretty cool ride. Not as fast as the defy line but felt good. Has tiagra grouping. Wasn't bad at all. 5. Defy composite 2.$1850. Has 105 grouping.Very smooth and fast. Really liked this bike! Was hard to walk out the door and leave it! Told myself "you just started riding these bikes now keep looking and testing!"That being said I really liked the bike! The ride was NICE! Fit like a glove. Will be riding this when all is narrowed down! 

Was fun to try these out and I hope to others out there that fit as well or better. Lots of em out there. Anybody have any experience with the giant composite line or the defy line?

Thanks 
Bill


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## Rashadabd (Sep 17, 2011)

fishboy316 said:


> I got to ride a couple bikes today. 1. Raleigh Ravenio 1. Liked the bike but seemed a bit small. Was a leftover 2013 and was $850. 2.Giant Defy 5. Fit much better but wasn't as smooth as the raleigh. Had sora grouping. 3. Giant Defy 1. XL frame fit real nice and was a very smooth shifting and pretty fast bike. 105 grouping.Nice bike! Fast and responsive! $1300. 4. Giant anyroad 1. Pretty cool ride. Not as fast as the defy line but felt good. Has tiagra grouping. Wasn't bad at all. 5. Defy composite 2.$1850. Has 105 grouping.Very smooth and fast. Really liked this bike! Was hard to walk out the door and leave it! Told myself "you just started riding these bikes now keep looking and testing!"That being said I really liked the bike! The ride was NICE! Fit like a glove. Will be riding this when all is narrowed down!
> 
> Was fun to try these out and I hope to others out there that fit as well or better. Lots of em out there. Anybody have any experience with the giant composite line or the defy line?
> 
> ...


That's great to hear you got out and tried a few. It helps a bunch doesn't it? One of my really good freinds rides a Defy 5 from 2011 or 2012 and it certainly has served him well. We did pretty much all of our major rides together at the time and he is still riding that bike and just upgrading things as they need to be replaced. He rides at least 2,000 miles a year over very hilly terrain with plenty of cat 4 and cat 3 rated climbs. They seem to be good bikes and will last you. I bet you will also like the Domane as well then. 

I probably would still take a look at the Caad10 and the new Specialized Allez Smartweld, both come highly recommended and I was impressed by the Caad on my test ride a year ago. Some say the smartweld rivals the ride of some carbon bikes. Fuji also makes some great carbon and alloy bikes in your price range if you have a performance bike near you. One guy in here also got a great deal on one of the new Diamondback road bikes that he really likes as well. I would also take a look at Felt bikes if you have a Felt dealer near you. They are hard to beat when you look at product for the price. I wish the best and look forward to seeing what you buy.


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## Rashadabd (Sep 17, 2011)

If don't feel settled on the Defy or anything else you see, you could get all of these for close to the same price or cheaper than the Defy Composite and have something most would view as great buy:

F5 - Felt Bicycles

Z5 - Felt Bicycles

Synapse Carbon 6 105 - ROAD - BIKES - 2014 (this bike will be cheaper in shops)

SuperSix EVO 6 105 - ROAD - BIKES - 2014

CAAD10 5 105 - ROAD - BIKES - 2014

Trek Bicycle

Trek Bicycle


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## fishboy316 (Feb 10, 2014)

Hey Rashadabd, Thanks for the links. I will be over the nextmonth or so be looking at Cannondale,Trek,Felt and Jamis. I can't believe the diff in the ride of the carbon and the alloy! Will be riding them soon. The bike Doctor has tent sales at all locations at the end of march. Takes like another 10% off the price. unless something comes up before then will probably get it then. I really did like the giant carbonj,it was fast even with an old newbie running it!LOL Guess it will boil down to feel and bang for the buck! (More feel I believe) Will update as I ride em!
Thanks!
Bill


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## robnj (Sep 26, 2013)

Since you are in the size 60 range, you may want to check out Performance Bike. They were having a super blowout sale on leftover Fujis. Great pricing. I took a peek and most left in stock were the larger, 60 frames.


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## Rashadabd (Sep 17, 2011)

fishboy316 said:


> Hey Rashadabd, Thanks for the links. I will be over the nextmonth or so be looking at Cannondale,Trek,Felt and Jamis. I can't believe the diff in the ride of the carbon and the alloy! Will be riding them soon. The bike Doctor has tent sales at all locations at the end of march. Takes like another 10% off the price. unless something comes up before then will probably get it then. I really did like the giant carbonj,it was fast even with an old newbie running it!LOL Guess it will boil down to feel and bang for the buck! (More feel I believe) Will update as I ride em!
> Thanks!
> Bill


No problem, glad I could help man.


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## ngl (Jan 22, 2002)

If you have the chance to try a few more bike then do it. Then buy the bike you love (if it's in your price range of course) and don't settle on a bike based on price alone. 

As a side note my wife's bike has 10 speed Tiagra. Tiagra is a little heavier and may not last as long as the upper tier groups (cheaper materials), but, I am impressed on how well it works after 2 years of riding.


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## fishboy316 (Feb 10, 2014)

Hi guys, Rode a Cannondale Synapse Carbon 6 105. Real sweet ride. Real smooth and fast. Felt like it was a nicer ride than the Giant was. But the Giant felt faster. The place I rode the Synapse was a tighter area so maybe just didn't have room to get up to speed. The Synapse was a better ride as far as comfort goes. Went to another lbs and looked at the Felt F5 and Z5. They seemed nice. They didn't have any over 54cm put together. They are also picking up Giant and they also have the BMC line. Will ride them next week. Also looked at a trek they have on special. Tried to look at some FUJI bikes but the bike guy at HTO was to busy to speak with me so I kinda have discounted them. 
Bike dr also includes Dynamic GURU Experience fitting free. Free tune up as long as you own the bike.They also have a 2013 demane 4.5c for $2079.00,$700 off. Could go that route. Have plenty of time to try em out and the Bike Doctor has a Big sale end of March. Some real nice bikes out there and hope to ride em all!LOL
Bill


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## mm9 (Jul 20, 2009)

Rashadabd said:


> If don't feel settled on the Defy or anything else you see, you could get all of these for close to the same price or cheaper than the Defy Composite and have something most would view as great buy:
> 
> F5 - Felt Bicycles
> 
> ...


This thread is very helpful to someone, like me, who has recently returned to the sport after decades away. And, Rashadabd - always appreciate your links on subjects like this.


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## Rashadabd (Sep 17, 2011)

mm9 said:


> This thread is very helpful to someone, like me, who has recently returned to the sport after decades away. And, Rashadabd - always appreciate your links on subjects like this.


No problem gents, happy to help. Other folks helped me along the way.


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## fishboy316 (Feb 10, 2014)

Any of you guy ride a Jamis road bike? Went to the local Jamis dealer and he can get a 2012 Xenith race with Caqrbon frame and altegra group for $1800. Don't know if i want to go with Jamis. Don't know much about em. I was hoping to ride some bikes this weekend but feeling really bad. Guess I will see what happens!


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## PJ352 (Dec 5, 2007)

fishboy316 said:


> Any of you guy ride a Jamis road bike? Went to the local Jamis dealer and he can get a 2012 Xenith race with Caqrbon frame and altegra group for $1800. Don't know if i want to go with Jamis. Don't know much about em. I was hoping to ride some bikes this weekend but feeling really bad. Guess I will see what happens!


I don't own one (but am considering one now), but have test ridden them and like the company. Different offerings than some other cookie cutter designs/ packages out there. And their warranty is as good as the larger companies. 

Check out their website. I think you'll find them quite competitive.


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## easyridernyc (Jan 10, 2008)

what, no specialized love?

Specialized Bicycle Components

downspec'd a bit at 1350, tiagra shifters are meh. but the e 5 frame is BOSS, man, can hang with the caad ten if similarly spec'd. plus, the looks are super aguri. 

specialized and cannondale are both expensive, you don't quite get what you pay for, is one way to look at it, so in that regard, I would recommend a 105 as a base group on a the competitive company's best aluminum frame. caad 8 is not the same frame as caad ten. caad ten with 105 gonna run you bout seventeen hundred, cheap crank, cheap and heavy wheels. if you can get one for a lot less, don't wait too long, cause they wont last at that price. e-5 with a 105, and a gossamer crank, same thing, heavy wheels, gossamer crank, sixteen hundred. 

i'd say fix a budget and recognize that at any price, you get hosed on wheels; once the wheels get upgraded, good set for say, four or five hundred bucks, you're a good eighty percent of the way to a solid race bike. ask yourself, why would anyone (like cannondale and specialized) put a gossamer crank on a 105 group? basically, to put a cheaper component on a good bike and lower the price. you might need think a bit about the crank--the transmission, unlike the wheels, cant be switched out piecemeal. because the components all wear at a relatively equal rate (except the chain, which you can replace a couple times). otherwise, very important-- the chain, crank, and cassette all have to be replaced at the same time. cant plan on an upgraded crank later on by itself. it all would have to go.

as a noob, you should be fine with the bike, say a 2013 10 5 as spec'd. just realize the bike is downspec'd, can accommodate upgrades, and is a LOT better and faster when equipped with better quality components. shoot for 105 to start....


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## easyridernyc (Jan 10, 2008)

whoa wait a minute...the 13 10 4 has the energy crank and sram rival. for 1200 bucks? 

that color scheme is butt ugly. but the bike itself is primo equipment. what I say above about the wheels would still apply. but if you like it, that's a very good deal on a caad...


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## adjtogo (Nov 18, 2006)

Personally speaking, Jamis is a good bike, and the Ultegra groupset is far superior than anything Sora or Tiagra, hands down!! It would cost you nearly $900 or more for the Ultegra 6700 that would be from that time period alone. It makes no sense to buy any bike with Tiagra or Sora and think you're going to upgrade later. It's much better to get more bang for your buck when you buy now, not later.

What you need to consider is the geometry of the bike, your riding style, riding goals, and the type of riding you're going to do. For me, I've had bikes with a more aggressive geometry and my body hated them. I have degenerated discs in my neck in C-4, C-5, and C-6, and back in L-4, L-5, and L-6. Riding in a more aerodynamic position killed my neck and back. After I switched over to a road bike with a taller head tube, I was perfectly fine.

$1800 for a 2012 Jamis with Ultegra is a fantastic price, as long as it fits your needs.


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## wim (Feb 28, 2005)

fishboy316 said:


> Don't know if i want to go with Jamis. Don't know much about em.


I rode and raced a very nice Jamis road bike in the early 1990s. The frame was designed by Bill Farrell (sp?), the guy who developed the so-called Fit Kit when the standard bicycle fitting procedure took 30 seconds and consisted of checking for clearance between your jewels and the top tube. So Jamis has been around and has built serious bikes for a long time.

For reasons that have nothing to with product quality, Jamis never moved up into the top tier of the industry, like Trek or Specialized. In my view, that top tier thing doesn't really mean much as far as performance is concerned. If anything, you pay more for a bit less. Agree with adjtogo: If you can get the Ultegra Jamis for $1,800, seriously consider it. The crank will not be Ultegra, but so what. It's just a crank and it will work perfectly for years.


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## fishboy316 (Feb 10, 2014)

The only problem I have with it(Jamis Xenith race) is that the owner doesn't want to get it unless I REALLY want it! Don't want to get stuck with a bike I don't want! Little worried about that! Think i will keep looking and riding and then when I finish testing if nothing "jiggles the old cods" then maybe get it brought in. I do hate the whole "if I bring it in for you, you have to buy it" thing but I guess I do get it. The Jamis guy has a very small shop and he seems to cater to high school kids but has been there for 26 years. He doesn't have a lot of inventory to even try. I do know a guy who bought from him and said he is "ok". That being said my friend hasn't used him for any other stuff as he does his own work. Also found a Fuji gran fondo 2.0 LE at performance bikes for $1899. So many choices out there in the range I am looking at!Will probably not be buying till the end of march so got time to ride em.
Only reason I haven't looked at specialized is the shop is about 45 miles away. My daughter has a specialized that has about $10000.00 tied up in it and she loves it to death. I can't go and shop for a bike with her as she want ultegra and better!LOL May still go there and check em out. Was looking at the trek line but they don't seem to spec as well as the cannondale at the same pricepoint. Anyways If I feel better I will go and ride a couple today as it is 60 and SUNNY! If not there's always tomorrow!


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## fishboy316 (Feb 10, 2014)

Hi guys,
Rode the Cdale synanpse 5 105 today. Took about a 10 mile jaunt and really enjoyed the ride. The bike has a real nice quality feel to it. Felt good and responsive. Wasn't the fastest out there but was probably one of the more comfy! Was the first ride for me (other than in a parking lot for) on a road bike fro over 25 years. I liked it! Still going to ride a lot of other bikes but this one is way in the running!


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## Rashadabd (Sep 17, 2011)

fishboy316 said:


> Hi guys,
> Rode the Cdale synanpse 5 105 today. Took about a 10 mile jaunt and really enjoyed the ride. The bike has a real nice quality feel to it. Felt good and responsive. Wasn't the fastest out there but was probably one of the more comfy! Was the first ride for me (other than in a parking lot for) on a road bike fro over 25 years. I liked it! Still going to ride a lot of other bikes but this one is way in the running!


It's a really nice bike for the price. It's probably what I would go with if I didn't like the Domane 5 and 6 Series so much. You could build a top notch bike out of that frame (which road.cc ranked #2 overall in their 2013-2014 bike of the year contest, but with had ultegra components). To start with 105 isn't a bad deal either. Plenty to like there. The road.cc Bike of the Year 2013-14 | road.cc


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## wim (Feb 28, 2005)

fishboy316 said:


> Wasn't the fastest out there but was probably one of the more comfy!!


Keep in mind that it's very difficult to determine "the fastest" bike from test riding the bikes you've been riding. One bike might _feel_ faster to you than another one, but it may not be so fast on a three-hour ride because of comfort issues.

Also remember that tire pressure on those bikes you've been riding affects your perception. When I worked at a shop, I'd send customers looking for plush out on their test ride on lower pressures than customers looking for pure speed. Same bike, two very different reactions when the potential buyers got back from their ride.

Point of all this: test rides are great, but they're not science. Go with the bike that feels and looks good to you and hope that you made the right decision.


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## adjtogo (Nov 18, 2006)

You have to put yourself in the owner's shoes of the small LBS you're speaking of. If he orders the bike in, he may get stuck paying for it if you don't buy it. It costs a lot of money in overhead to run a shop, and he certainly doesn't want to get stuck with a bike in his shop should you change your mind. I've personally bought from several different bike shops in my area, where they've had to order a bike in my size for me. They all collected my money up front for the bike as well. 

As you're finding out, you're finding comparable bikes at your pricepoint at each of your stops. I would recommend keeping a journal and taking notes on each bike you ride. While you are stating that one bikes feels faster than another, is really irrelevant. You need to focus on comfort of the bike each time you ride. Whatever bike you are test riding, the bike shop should do a fitting of you to the bike. 

Keep test riding. It may be worth the extra 45 mile drive to test out Specialized.


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## fishboy316 (Feb 10, 2014)

Yea I think I am going to go and ride a Tarmac sl4. The Specialized line seems underspeced at the prices they are charging. Was trying to go at least to 105 grouping. Am going to try one out though. Maybe they have a leftover or something. Won't know till I look.Also waiting on another shop that took on the giant line. they also have the felt line so will be trying them together. Still thinking about the jamis also so got a ways to go. Did like the ride on that Cdale. Still time to look.
Thanks again for the advice guys!
Bill


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## PJ352 (Dec 5, 2007)

FWIW, I think you're going about this in exactly the right way - checking out shops along with bikes, branching out a little to broaden your choices, thinking about the test rides... 

I agree with both wim and adjtogo... wim on the sensation of speed and the effects of changes in tire pressures, and adjtogo on shop policies re: special orders. 

IME, Jamis dealers tend to be smaller LBS's, so policies reflect that. But as long as you and the shop put an effort into narrowing the type of bike and sizing requirements, that shouldn't be a problem. Still, make sure you fully understand any shops policies to avoid surprises.

On the topic of Specialized, first, I don't really agree that (generally speaking) their line is lacking in specs for their respective price points. Second (and maybe more importantly) if they have a make/ model that 'just feels right' and makes you want to ride, I think any minor deficiencies in specs are moot. 

Bottom line, ride (a bunch), then decide. But memories do fade and as you ride more you'll get more confused, so documenting riding impressions, etc. isn't a bad idea.


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## fishboy316 (Feb 10, 2014)

Thanks pj352 and the rest of you. I am keeping a journal on the test rides. I am even putting in how I was actually feeling that day. will probably ride the Synapse again as the entry for yesterday said feeling like poop!lol Could be why it felt slower. Still many irons in the fire!

Btw:Love the dog pj!


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## PJ352 (Dec 5, 2007)

fishboy316 said:


> Btw:Love the dog pj!


Thanks. That makes two of us. :wink5:

Keep us updated on your progress.


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## easyridernyc (Jan 10, 2008)

PJ352 said:


> FWIW, I think you're going about this in exactly the right way - checking out shops along with bikes, branching out a little to broaden your choices, thinking about the test rides...
> 
> I agree with both wim and adjtogo... wim on the sensation of speed and the effects of changes in tire pressures, and adjtogo on shop policies re: special orders.
> 
> ...


I wouldn't say lacking in specs, as far as specialized is concerned. they are not alone in switching out components on full groupings, as in an fsa for a shimano crank with 105 shifters and generic type brakes. that lowers the cost a bit on any frame build. doesn't make for a "bad" bike, but does make concessions for cost and quality. baseline 105 group and frame on carbon build, specialized is gonna cost more, 2800 and up, every time. 

however. i will say that they have done an exceptional job in extending the cost logic to include tiagra shifters on tarmac frames, making top quality available with the concessions.. 

as you know, a race level tarmac, as I say, with a full 105 group and relatively heavy, and I mean like seventeen eighteen hundred gram wheels, will run you close to three thousand bucks. you can ride it like that, but heavy wheels make a big difference, they really have to go before you can really experience what the frame can do when it is well spec'd. but slap sora shifters on there, keep the relatively heavy, but decent wheels on there, and suddenly that race level frame that can be spec'd up to to three four thousand bucks with good wheels and an ultegra group, suddenly that bike is down to less than 1500 bucks. which is one. pretty. god. damned. good. deal. on. a. tarmac. of any kind. last year it was called mid compact. with pretty much the best paint job in the entire fleet, I mean one beautiful bike. for 1400 bucks. buy that one, bring it home, switch in the good group and wheels on your "old" bike, and voila. you have one of the best bikes on the road. no concessions on their primo tarmac frame. that was a really, really good deal. 

maybe too good. they stopped doing that this year, who knows if they'll do it again. but I digress. ultimately it doesn't make all the difference. but some differences are kinda worth paying attention to....


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## country cyclist (Oct 28, 2013)

wim said:


> Absolutely. In fact, I just put a bike together for a young man who's perfectly happy with 8-speed for the foreseeable future, but wanted new stuff. I installed Shimano Claris (below Sora, gasp!) brake-shifters and derailleurs and have to say that shifting was a unmitigated pleasure during my 5-mile post-build test ride.
> 
> 
> Just so I don't mislead beginners here: Not _recommending_ Claris here because you'd be stuck with 8-speed. My point is simply to confirm PJ's observation that low-end stuff can work beautifully.


I'll also vouch for the claris group,seem's like descent quality,shifts nicely,been riding it the last year. I feel it allowed me to get into cycling without breaking the bank.


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