# Lemond is dead to me.



## mtbbmet (Apr 2, 2005)

I'm done with this brand.
Gone are the days of high quality steel/ti frames. No more Ti at all now, and only one steel frame on offer. I was upset when they dropped the full ti for the spline, but now the have lost me completly.
It is just another company with the same things on offer. Full AL, AL with a carbon stay, or full carbon. It's been done. I'm bored.
Next.


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## Robert M. (Mar 24, 2004)

Yeah, yeah, you and everyone else for one reason or another. Can't really blame them (Trek) for wanting more money and sales out of the Lemond name, can you? Everyone has full AL, AL with a carbon stay, or full carbon, what else is there? Their steel bike is a great deal considering every other steel frame is over 1k, and Ti has always been overpriced. What exactly are you looking for?


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## wipeout (Jun 6, 2005)

litespeed.


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## stevecaz (Feb 25, 2005)

God I love my new Tete de Course spine bike.

Hey, I understand you nostalgia. Time change and sometimes its hard to let go. Its not Lemond, its the market. People are so crazy over carbon that a company MUST have a sub-1kg all carbon frame in the high end to compete. And well there is good reason to be excited about lots of carbon. And then a company will produce what sells. 
I do remember though the great steel blue and white Zurich around 1999. That rode great and was their best selling bike for awhile. 

My problem now is that Lemond doesn't have enought "swag" support from Trek. With my Cannondale I could have Cdale socks, jerseys, shorts, saddle bags, signs, jackets, etc. There almost nothing for Lemond. If that rumour is true about Lemond being the bike for Cofidis next year (I'm guessing the Triomphe), then the stuff will start rolling out and the Lemond brand will explode. Remember that Europeans really like Greg. Many including Frenchmen routed for him over Hinault and Fignon. With a Pro-Tour sponsorship sales will be huge.


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## hell_on_wheels (Jul 26, 2005)

Lemond is like every other company that wants to make money; their product is dictated by market demand. Can you blame tham for wanting to put out new and (GASP) different products? The new carbon bikes feel and handle better than any Madone I've ever ridden, but I wouldn't buy one. I will admit, I'm a little disappointed they got rid of the steel spine.


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## mtbbmet (Apr 2, 2005)

Back to the original subject.
Trek already has a very full line of Carbon, AL/Carbon, and full AL bikes. Why do they feel the need to saturate the market even more and compete with themselves. The Lemond line could be very successful if left to be what it was 4 or 5 years ago. A full line of mid to high end steel and Ti bikes. The market is there for it. I would buy a full Ti Lemond in a heat beat if I could get one. I would not even consider a carbon Lemond.

And in regards to this.

"Anyway, get over yourself. No one cares if you don't want to buy a Lemond anyway."

Actually, I bet Trek and Lemond care. When a guy like me (30's, cat 1 racer, DINK with income that permits me to drop $5000+ on a bike) says "wouldn't even consider one." Trek should take a step back and have another look at where they are taking the line.


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## vanjr (Sep 15, 2005)

LIke others I am not glad with what they dropped. However more people will buy the carbone bikes. I just wish they had kept some of the Ti bikes (with or without the spine design). However they are not the biggest bike company (I think I have read that they stay pretty separate from trek despite ownership) and it probably is better to focus on one thing. The new carbon bikes do have some innovations, gotta give some credit. One problem is they are not locally available where I live.


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## zyzbot (Feb 3, 2004)

I had a conversation with the owner of my LBS this week and he mentioned that he's already taken orders for or sold 5 of the new Lemond carbon bikes. At his shop he said that they are selling faster than the older designs did. I guess time will tell.


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## collarboneclub (Aug 22, 2006)

a truism - 'time will tell' -

"no one ever got rich selling the public something they don't want"
_ anonymous retailer_


CBC


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## Meatball (Sep 3, 2005)

Just got my Zurich. (steel carbon spine) I am glad I got it and didnt get an AL bike, or an AL carbon thingy. Steel rocks.


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## hell_on_wheels (Jul 26, 2005)

Come to think of it, it is a shame that Lemond is only offering limited steel and no ti bikes. I know there are people that swear buy the custom frame builder, but there's not too many companies still offering an "off the shelf" ti or steel bike like Lemond used to. It seems they may have lost their niche. Right now, it seems that some "non-cycling marketinig genius" has decided what bikes Lemon should make. Let's hope things come full circle, and they some day return to their old ways.

I'm a big fan of the steel carbon spine since I own an '05 Zurich. It's been my favorite bike by far. My fear is that I have a warranty issue like a cracked frame (knock on wood), and they won't be able to replace it. The new aluminum carbon spine does nothing for me.


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## Evan Evans (Sep 14, 2004)

The problem with the steel lemonds is the fact they don't have the bling needed to sell to the average new bike buyer. They look cheep & dated. As a person who grew up on steel bikes i understand the quality of the lemonds but a skinny tubed steel frame without lugs just looks cheep. They don't sell. Lemond has to try something.


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## djg714 (Oct 24, 2005)

Some people consider the skinny round tubes elegant.............


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## Evan Evans (Sep 14, 2004)

I agree with you. The problem is that for every one of us there is 1000 people buying a giant tc-whatever.


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## WhiskeyNovember (May 31, 2003)

>>>>Right now, it seems that some "non-cycling marketinig genius" has decided what bikes Lemon should make.

I think, more likely, the powers that be simply decided to stop dumping money into the production of bike models that fewer and fewer people are purchasing. 

Trek isn't in the bike business for charity, and it's not there to provide a public service....it exists (and has not gone out of business) because it offers good products, and utilizes smart and efficient business practices. 

Trek got out of the recumbent business, too. Should it be faulted for that?

By the way....virtually everyone in the marketing department is a fairly avid rider. You won't find a single "non-cycling marketing genius"....


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## Evan Evans (Sep 14, 2004)

Unfortunatly the bike industry servives by selling the latest marketing gimmick. As a result alot of crazy junk is marketed as necessary. Is that good for the consumer? Yes & No , Bikes today are better than ever once you weed out the crap.


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## mulkdog45 (Apr 5, 2006)

I have a 2002 Zurich, all steel. I love this bike. It is smooth, reasonably lite-17.5 # - strong and comfy. True, it is to bad that great designs are dropped. But things change.....and as a friend reminds me so often, "So many bikes, so little time". Be done and move on....There are some great Road bikes out there to be ridden. Good luck.


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## Richard (Feb 17, 2006)

Working for a Trek dealer, I personally liked the steel/carbon Lemond splined bikes.

But we are still "sitting on" two 2003 Lemonds (a titanium and a Reynolds 853) and a 2004Buenos Aires steel spline (albeit all are small frame sizes.) This despite the fact that we have discounted them to just about cost.

Customers would look at the Buenos Aires and the then American made Trek 5000 with virtually the same spec and the same price. Pick them up and everybody bought the Trek. I'm sure our experience is hardly unique. Just like Trek, we are not a non-profit enterprise. If it doesn't sell (no matter how good or what the value is), you dump it.

I recently bought a Masi Carbon Speciale, a Dedacciai steel/carbon frame (which is considerable lighter than the Lemond steel/carbon.) Despite being the Masi product manager's favorite ride, it has been discontinued. It retailed for almost as much as the Masi 3VC full carbon with identical component spec but it just didn't sell.


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## alexedge (Jul 13, 2007)

mtbbmet said:


> Back to the original subject.
> Trek already has a very full line of Carbon, AL/Carbon, and full AL bikes. Why do they feel the need to saturate the market even more and compete with themselves. The Lemond line could be very successful if left to be what it was 4 or 5 years ago. A full line of mid to high end steel and Ti bikes. The market is there for it. I would buy a full Ti Lemond in a heat beat if I could get one. I would not even consider a carbon Lemond.
> 
> And in regards to this.
> ...


The problem here is that you are working off the assumption that Lemond should base their model lineup on YOUR preferences. Unfortunately for you, they have to base their decisions on what type of bikes to develop on what type of bikes will sell in a quantity large enough to make them a profit.

You say "the Lemond line could be very successful if left to what it was 4 or 5 years ago" and "the market is there [for a full line of mid- to high-end steel and ti bikes]". What kind of qualifications do you have to make these market assessments? Have you done large surveys of recent/potential new bike buyers? Do you have access to all the sales figures from Trek/Lemond dealers, as well as personal feedback from each dealer's salespeople? Because Trek/Lemond has all that information, so I'm pretty sure they are in a far better position than you to decide what will sell more bikes.

You say you are a Cat 1 racer - this indicates to me that you are probably a pretty serious/experienced cyclist, the type who will appreciate the benefits of steel and Ti over the more common Aluminum and carbon. Unfortunately, the vast majority of people buying new bikes are newbies, to whom looks and 'bling factor' are a huge part of the buying decision. The ability of CF to be made in crazy, 'trick'-looking shapes gives those bikes a huge eyeball appeal over traditional round-tube bikes, at least to the newby who hasn't been a cyclist long enough to see the appeal of a traditional round-tube frame's beauty.

Also, most less experienced riders are not going to gain an appreciation for the beautiful ride quality of a good steel or Ti bike on the short 'parking lot test' most shops encourage them to take. However, what they can easily do is pick up the Lemond they're looking at and feel its weight in comparison to a similarly priced carbon frame. Even the spine bikes felt a lot heavier. This is another 'breaking point' for less knowledgeable buyers, who will usually assume that weight is everything, and so the lighter CF bike must be "better" than the heavier steel or Ti Lemond.

Another poster stated that the Lemond metal or spine frames have not sold well at the shop he works at. I have heard similar statements from almost every Lemond dealer I've visited. The older Lemonds appealed to a knowledgeable buyer, but the average joe just didn't get it, and average joes are the ones who buy the most bikes.

I am also super disappointed that their are no more Ti or spine frames (except Aluminum/cf) and only one TTOxP steel bike left in Lemond's catalog. But I feel you are slamming the company unfairly, they DO have to make money or there will be no more Lemonds AT ALL. Which would suck even more. For every buyer like you (who would love a Ti Lemond but never touch one of the new CF frames) there are ten average joes who are exactly the opposite, and I hear the new CF bikes have been selling very well (at least at all the dealers around here....)


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## ex2k4 (May 24, 2007)

Evan Evans said:


> The problem with the steel lemonds is the fact they don't have the bling needed to sell to the average new bike buyer. They look cheep & dated. As a person who grew up on steel bikes i understand the quality of the lemonds but a skinny tubed steel frame without lugs just looks cheep. They don't sell. Lemond has to try something.


I'm not sure if that's true in all cases. Look at the 2008 line up for the Lemonds. Color and designs are beautiful! When I was buying my first road bike 2 months ago, my choices were Lemond Alpe D'huez vs. Trek 2100. Lemond was so beautiful to look at but pricing just didn't work out with me. I think they do give a great design feel to the new buyers also.


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## brentster (Jul 12, 2007)

That was an awesome post AlexEdge


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## Bikemark1 (May 6, 2007)

Why has no one sited the difference in geometry Lemond offers? I was well aware that Trek (and many others) offered approx the same price point for approx same materials... but the bike did not fit me for my comfort. Lemond offered a different fit. It's more than just materials.


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## davidka (Dec 12, 2001)

Guys, go ride a Carbon Lemond (Triomphe frame). If you have an open mind I think you will find that there is nothing that any good steel frame does that the carbon bike doesn't do better. There are things that can be achieved with a well designed carbon frame that simply can't be achieved with steel or Ti (I have owned the best of both). Parts of the frame can be made to flex in one direction while being incredibly stiff in another. All this with a frame that weighs in the neighborhood of 2lbs. My Lemond carbon is both stiffer in the BB and front triangle but way smoother in the saddle than the Ti/spine frame it replaces. 

TI frames are wonderful but there is no getting around it's cost as a raw material. It's expensive and it always will be. That is a small niche market that a company like Trek can't operate effectively in. There are great companies doing this material like Seven and Lynskey selling great customs and small batch frames.


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## stevecaz (Feb 25, 2005)

So you think you Triomphe frame is "way" more comfortable/vertically compliant than the Ti/OCLV spine frame? Interesting. 
I haven't ridden one yet but that would surprise me, as I think my Tete is like riding a couch. 

Well then, maybe the spine Tete is a thick rawhide stiff leather couch then and the Triomphe is one of those poofy sink-into couches. Of course I also came off riding C-dales for many, many years before the Tete. When I went over railroad track for the first time on my first day with the Tete, the clouds parted, angels flew in, and music played while I saw the light. I'll have to give the Triomphe a test.


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## mtbbmet (Apr 2, 2005)

My LBS droped the Lemond line at the end of 2006. The reason was due to the fact that Lemond now offers the exact same thing as everyone else. His store already sells Giant, Scott, Time, Ridley and Colnago and he felt he didn't need another "high end plastic frame" clutering the place up. So he droped them. Someone else in town picked up the exclusive on them though, a big box store type thing that also sells hockey, baseball, and soccer equipment. So that's a step up for them, I guess. I stand by my original post. This line has lost it's direction and it's appeal. It is now exactly the same as every other plastic bike manufaturer out there, except the good ones.


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## davidka (Dec 12, 2001)

Mtbbmet, it sounds like that dealer should drop another brand or two while he's at it. lol 
Just kidding, sounds like a bike nut's toy store with all those carbon bikes. For what it's worth, Lemond has not lost it's direction, nor it's appeal. Think of the Harley V-rod. My mother (yes, my mother) said to me, "Harley customers won't buy that" and she was right. Customers that weren't yet buying Harleys bought it. The Spine bikes were great (still are) but they were not selling anymore. Lemond built a bike that had the ride qualities and geometry that made the brand unique into a 2lb. carbon frame, for better or worse (I say better having ridden both).

I still think you should ride one, you would probably love it.


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## javaracer (Aug 8, 2007)

As an owner of a Victoire, I would say it's one of the best rides I've ever had, bar none. I have bontrager race lite wheels with bontrager race lite dual silica tred and it's so smooth that I just am amazed every time I ride it. I also have had Bianchi steel, Have an Oclv 5500 a specialized Transition.I've owned 3 5500's or their equivalent and none compare. I've spent time on many other bikes as being a grass roots sponsored rider, and none compare.THE tI SPINE IS AWESOME AND MADE IN THE Usa.I tho't it might be slow, but is so good that I am faster on all my training routes over two years of comparing.My friends have ridden this bike and tell me I'd be nuts to ever sell her...Lemond does do an awesome cross bike out of steel tho.


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## robertburns3 (Jan 11, 2007)

I considered a Lemond bike. It was cool and all, but it had one huge problem...

...it said "Lemond" on the side of it. That dude is a freak.

Sorry, had to say it. No offense to you Lemond riders, they are mostly pretty cool bikes.


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## javaracer (Aug 8, 2007)

Yea, He was a freak alright! Three tours, before it was in vogue to only concentrate on one race for the whole season! He was known to ski the Birkie(53 K of intense non-ending hills in Northern Wisc.) and then ski it back the opposite way to the start. If it was,nt for team politics gone wrong(Hinault),he would've won 4. I'm proud of our US heritage of LeMond and Armstrong and hope history proves they both were clean.


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## jb636 (Nov 3, 2005)

Formerly owned an '04 Zurich - picked up a new '07 Zurich on Friday and spent all weeekend riding it - 3 rides of 20 miles, 41 miles, and 60 miles.
Only change to stock was the tires - swapped out the Bontrager Race for Conti Gator Skins. Have ridden Gator Skins for 4 years with no problems and great wear / tear. Wasn't going to mess with success.
Impressions of the new '07 Zurich are as follows:
1) Rides felt smoother than the '04 and more comfortable ride with the full cabon vs. steel / carbon. 
2) Climbs easier due to enhanced bottom bracket stiffness. (amazing stiffness compared to '04) and lighter frame weight.
3) Handles better - more responsive in turns. Not exactly sure why, but definately enhanced vs. '04. Wonder if bottom bracket size has anything to do with this?
4) Smoother gearing ('04 had Ultegra triple) - '07 is double.
5) IMO - better looking bike with silver / grey combo vs. '04 with blue / carbon combo.

All in all very happy and no regrets!


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## djg714 (Oct 24, 2005)

robertburns3 said:


> I considered a Lemond bike. It was cool and all, but it had one huge problem...
> 
> ...it said "Lemond" on the side of it. That dude is a freak.
> 
> Sorry, had to say it. No offense to you Lemond riders, they are mostly pretty cool bikes.



Great more beer for us...
What a pathetic statement...

:frown2:


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## alexedge (Jul 13, 2007)

jb636 said:


> Formerly owned an '04 Zurich - picked up a new '07 Zurich on Friday and spent all weeekend riding it - 3 rides of 20 miles, 41 miles, and 60 miles.
> Only change to stock was the tires - swapped out the Bontrager Race for Conti Gator Skins. Have ridden Gator Skins for 4 years with no problems and great wear / tear. Wasn't going to mess with success.
> Impressions of the new '07 Zurich are as follows:
> 1) Rides felt smoother than the '04 and more comfortable ride with the full cabon vs. steel / carbon.
> ...


Still have your '04? If it's a 53, wanna sell it to me?

The blue and silver was my FAVORITE color ever for these bikes. In fact, blue Lemonds are my favorite, period!


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## jb636 (Nov 3, 2005)

Sorry - '04 Zurich was a 55 and anyway it's sold.

.


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