# Bruyneel: Armstrong to be #3 on Astana for TDF



## hawker12 (Oct 19, 2003)

Wow...wonder if that's it or if things could change? I imagine this has to be a bit of a struggle for Lance. 

http://www.bikeworldnews.com/index.php/2009/06/03/road-news-armstrong-astanas-3-tour-de-france/


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## doctor855 (Dec 27, 2008)

i don't know, did levi look strong enough at the giro? was it because horner got hurt that he fell back? that's a tough call...i think that could change early into the tour.


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## tbgtbg (Mar 13, 2009)

Well, on the one hand it takes a lot of pressure off LA, on the other, I don't see him playing 2nd fiddle to anyone. In the past, Postal, Discovery was all about Lance, and him only. Astana has so many good cyclist, I just wonder how they will keep everyone on the same page.


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## stevesbike (Jun 3, 2002)

Bruyneel is pretty shrewd - my guess is he's saying this to keep Contador happy (who has been shopping around to other teams) and to let LA go into the tour without pressure. You can bet though that if LA finds good form for the tour he won't roll over; it'll be Hinault/Lemond 2 (though I doubt LA will refind the form).


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## jorgy (Oct 21, 2005)

I don't think Bruyneel is sending up a smokescreen.

Levi was damned tired and still did pretty well.

Lance has a new baby on the way and LiveSTRONG, which I'm guessing are higher priorities than winning an 8th TdF. Plus, in his interview with Universal Sports Lance admitted that while he had aspirations of winning his 8th tour a few months ago, reality has set in for him.


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## Italophile (Jun 11, 2004)

stevesbike said:


> Bruyneel is pretty shrewd - my guess is he's saying this to keep Contador happy (who has been shopping around to other teams) and to let LA go into the tour without pressure. You can bet though that if LA finds good form for the tour he won't roll over; it'll be Hinault/Lemond 2 (though I doubt LA will refind the form).


I can see this unhappy scenario shaping up, but I doubt Lance can match Contador when the big climbs come day after day. As bitter as it will taste, he really has to serve as the rabbit to other teams in favor of Alberto.

But what a rabbit! They will have to chase!


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## iliveonnitro (Feb 19, 2006)

He is #3 for sure. Despite improving form, it is not high enough to win the Tour. Maybe top 5, probably top 10, no way on the podium.


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## tjjm36m3 (Mar 4, 2008)

Bruyneel is no dummy... Contador is 26 and Lance has 11 years on top of that. Coming back from a 3.5 yr haitus while trying to win a grand tour when you're 37 is something. 

Bruyneel knows what contador can do... and in the long run astana, or whomever becomes the sponsor, knows contador is a cashcow, while LA will be in his 40s.


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## B15serv (Apr 27, 2008)

i just cant wait to see how it all goes down. Also it kind of sucks for levi to be in the middle of all this. He's a great cyclist but seems to be playing 3rd fiddle to the old vs. young war.


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## Spunout (Aug 12, 2002)

Lance will get water bottles.


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## lucer0 (Apr 13, 2007)

He doesn't seem too unhappy playing domestique - I think he's smart enough to know that he's not top dog anymore and there's no reason for his team to put him in that position


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## wipeout (Jun 6, 2005)

lol. yeah, #3... sure, uh huh.


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## gh1 (Jun 7, 2008)

They will back the horse that is running, and that will be Contador. I think it would be glorious to do a comeback and not be encumbered with the weight of being the GC guy. You work on somedays for the team and when the day is right, you can attack and you dont have everyone marking you.


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## ProRoad (Oct 13, 2008)

Looks like he and the other "old" men are having a lot of fun this year. That's all that really matters.
Contador will be #1 and get full support. Lance will win a stage with Johan's tactics.
Brian


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## sometimerider (Sep 21, 2007)

My opinion:

Lance will get at least 1 personal domestique (maybe Rubiera, if he can ride a lot better than he did in the Giro) - until he loses significant time. After that, he'll just be another of Contador's helpers.


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## albert owen (Jul 7, 2008)

Contador is reported as saying that he will stay at Astana rather than going to Caisse d'Eparnge. If he hadn't had assurances that he would be "top dog" for the TDF at Astana he would have jumped ship I reckon.
Bottom Line - No matter what you may think of LA/LL etc, Contador is the _only_ Astana rider who can win this year's TDF


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## ti-triodes (Aug 14, 2006)

Johann is trying to motivate Lance. What happened the last time Lance was really motivated? The '04 Tour comes to mind.


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## moabbiker (Sep 11, 2002)

As seen and strongly heard in the Giro, Lance has become a risk-averse cyclist who wont have anything to do with fast downhill rides or high paced sweeping turns in a TT. Of course, he has no reason to either but the price is that he wont be placing in the top 10.


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## Beethoven (Jul 28, 2005)

moabbiker said:


> As seen and strongly heard in the Giro, Lance has become a risk-averse cyclist who wont have anything to do with fast downhill rides or high paced sweeping turns in a TT. Of course, he has no reason to either but the price is that he wont be placing in the top 10.


I don't think that's fair. Lance was delegated by the peloton to protest the Milan conditions. What got the riders upset most of all was the descent down Maloja pass in driving rain, unlit tunnels, and 40F. Many of the stage finishes were atrocious.

I think if he gets a stage win on one of the major stages he'll be happy, as he should be. In any case, it'll be fantastic to watch.


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## FondriestFan (May 19, 2005)

Bruyneel is just playing his cards. Armstrong has always been about Armstrong. I don't think he'll end up pulling for Contador. He'll be a protected rider until he cracks. After he cracks, he may support AC, but not before then.


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## BAi9302010 (Mar 7, 2002)

Armstrong could do something in the first week. 15km prologue and stage 5 is a TTT. Conti should take the reigns when the mountains start.


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## Gnarly 928 (Nov 19, 2005)

Beethoven said:


> I don't think that's fair. Lance was delegated by the peloton to protest the Milan conditions. What got the riders upset most of all was the descent down Maloja pass in driving rain, unlit tunnels, and 40F. Many of the stage finishes were atrocious.
> 
> I think if he gets a stage win on one of the major stages he'll be happy, as he should be. In any case, it'll be fantastic to watch.


 The mountain stage descent that got Lance all "Twiter-pated" in the Giro...I like the style of the Giro for including something like that. These guys are IT...the best cyclists in the world..They should be given courses that are challenging...if the old guys, the 'established' guys don't want to hang it out going 60+mph in the rain (the organizers didn't program that into the stage) they can just put on their brakes and whine about it...like they did. It IS a race and everyone in the peloton had the same decisions to make about how much risk they wanted to incur.

Now the Milan stage...I do question running that many riders through what was essentially a Criterium course on crappy pavement and extra tight streets..Too big a field for the size of the course and the course preparation looked a bit shoddy (from what I saw during the online webcast) with some parked cars, slick cobbles, etc. These guys don't probably have any 'Workman's Comp' insurance in case of a crash..and that Milan course looked like it was made for plenty of crashing...


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## Beethoven (Jul 28, 2005)

Gnarly, I agree with you on the whole, but the Maloja Pass is a special case. It basically drops straight down from the Silva Plana plateau to the Bergello. It's so tight they have to clear the thing when the post bus goes up an down twice a day. There's nothing in the TdF even remotely like it. Add the water drops and fog on your glasses, and 150 scared cyclist around you, and I think there is a legitimate gripe. 

Lance is back in Aspen training, and Chris Carmichael seems to be pretty pleased with his progress. I think finishing in the top ten would be a huge accomplishment, one that he wants to achieve. Can't wait for it to start!


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## Jwiffle (Mar 18, 2005)

I find all the chatter on these boards about Lance quite entertaining. "He's going to DNF." "He's going to win!" "Lance's form is terrible." "Lance's form is coming along great!" "Did you actually see him in that last stage?" "Did YOU actually see him that last stage?" 

Quite funny, especially since it's all coming from amateurs who, really, when it comes down to it, have no more idea of his form or conditioning than I do. But a heck of a lot of bias by many for a lot of different reasons. I find it hilarious. 

Me? I have no idea if he will win, podium, or take a stage. What I can say, with 100% certainty, is that he will be competitive, whether he wins or doesn't even come in top 100. 12th place in the Giro? Some talk like he did poorly. 12th place out of a couple hundred of cycling's best! I'm not even a Lance fan, as I don't particularly care for the guy, but the man can ride a bike. Another thing I can say with a 100% certainty: pick a course (flat, scary downhills, grinding climbs, wherever) any day, any time, and he could kick just about any of our butts on the bike.

It should be an interesting July!


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## Infini (Apr 21, 2003)

Finally!


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## brewster (Jun 15, 2004)

Johan is playing the game. He is very loyal to Armstrong and knows the best way to get the best from him is to question whether he can do it. He's stoking the fire. It lowers the media pressure and stratospheric expectations of him. I agree, Lance isn't going to be second banana to anyone. He's a very crafty rider, and has one huge advantage Contador doesn't....experience.

brewster


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## bigmig19 (Jun 27, 2008)

Im confused about all the cycling dogma ive heard over the years regarding peaking and training etc.. 
Lance and Levi should have very different results in TDF if you buy in to all that. Levi started the season in Jan/feb, rode to death in a GT a month before the TDF. Lance had plenty of off-time, rode himself, essentially, _into shape_ in the Giro. Shouldnt their bodies be experiencing two very different reactions by July 4 (based on traditional cycling training theory)?
Also, if pro cyclists and GT's are what we have been told they are.... isnt Lance's finish at the Giro, in fact, extremely impressive and indicative that maybe he _is_ back? Over 90% of the field couldnt keep up with him, and they did not have a broken collarbone for weeks leading up to the start. If these are the tippy top best athletes, then one guy taking that much time off should be relegated to dead last, no? (excluding sprinters) Sounds like he is till able to kick almost everyone's arse without even training nearly that much. Wow


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## function (Jun 20, 2008)

Italophile said:


> I can see this unhappy scenario shaping up, but I doubt Lance can match Contador when the big climbs come day after day. As bitter as it will taste, he really has to serve as the rabbit to other teams in favor of Alberto.
> 
> But what a rabbit! They will have to chase!


Armstrong will start going backwards when the contenders really throw down. That's all i'm saying


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## hawker12 (Oct 19, 2003)

brewster said:


> Johan is playing the game. He is very loyal to Armstrong and knows the best way to get the best from him is to question whether he can do it. He's stoking the fire. It lowers the media pressure and stratospheric expectations of him. I agree, Lance isn't going to be second banana to anyone. He's a very crafty rider, and has one huge advantage Contador doesn't....experience.
> 
> brewster



You make a lot of sense. I heard an interview with Johan recently and you would have thought he was talking about his brother when he spoke of Armstrong. Their careers and successes are built on one another.


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## saird (Aug 19, 2008)

function said:


> Armstrong will start going backwards when the contenders really throw down. That's all i'm saying


You mean he's going to sit on the handlebars and ride backwards?! Is there no end to the mans talents?


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## bigpinkt (Jul 20, 2006)

http://www.cyclismag.com/article.php?sid=5070

Cyclismag did another analysis of performance at the Giro. Assume other contenders do not improve he has a 6-7% gap to make up. There is some variance due to the generic weight, this could shave 1-2%. Still a big improvement is needed in a month. 

Right now Armstrong would have to be 4th man on Astana, behind Contador, Levi, and Kloden. If Horner has the same form as he showed at the Giro he would be 5th. I do not see how Levi can keep up the high performance level he has been at all year. Very hard to keep that level of form for so long. It showed in the Giro as he faded in the last week.


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## thechriswebb (Nov 21, 2008)

bigmig19 said:


> Im confused about all the cycling dogma ive heard over the years regarding peaking and training etc..
> Lance and Levi should have very different results in TDF if you buy in to all that. Levi started the season in Jan/feb, rode to death in a GT a month before the TDF. Lance had plenty of off-time, rode himself, essentially, _into shape_ in the Giro. Shouldnt their bodies be experiencing two very different reactions by July 4 (based on traditional cycling training theory)?
> Also, if pro cyclists and GT's are what we have been told they are.... isnt Lance's finish at the Giro, in fact, extremely impressive and indicative that maybe he _is_ back? Over 90% of the field couldnt keep up with him, and they did not have a broken collarbone for weeks leading up to the start. If these are the tippy top best athletes, then one guy taking that much time off should be relegated to dead last, no? (excluding sprinters) Sounds like he is till able to kick almost everyone's arse without even training nearly that much. Wow


I was thinking the same thing, but I have learned that arguing either side of the Lance argument will get you buried in a deep, hideous, bottomless hole of slime composed of the broken aspirations of the jealous who couldn't touch his success, the rash defensiveness of the naive who believe that he is infallible, and salt from the tears of the cycle culture fanatics wounded by the "disgrace" that he has brought to "their" sport. 

It's a dangerous subject to discuss. I hesitate to offer my opinions about him, because no matter what they are, _somebody_ is going to be deeply and personally offended by it. I've been flogged even for making statements that I thought were neutral. 

No one has any idea whatsoever how Lance is going to perform in the tour. Nobody.


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## JSR (Feb 27, 2006)

thechriswebb said:


> ... but I have learned that arguing either side of the Lance argument will get you buried in a deep, hideous, bottomless hole of slime composed of the broken aspirations of the jealous who couldn't touch his success, the rash defensiveness of the naive who believe that he is infallible, and salt from the tears of the cycle culture fanatics wounded by the "disgrace" that he has brought to "their" sport.


That, brother, is a slice of righteous truth right there. Beautiful.

JSR


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## gh1 (Jun 7, 2008)

Its pretty easy actually to guess Lance's fitness. He is almost 38 years old and after that its a pretty easy equation. Nobody gets a pass on aging. He will have good days and he will have days where he cant recover like the 20 somethings that he is racing against and if they attack he will have very little response.


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## muscleendurance (Jan 11, 2009)

Armstrong is just on a CANCER SPREADING mission...woops that cam out wrong  spreading the word I mean, funding, do this that the other to various countries political powers and general exposure for the cancer 'mission' on tv, the cyclings a way to draw attention to the circus just look at the giro, he was nowhere and yet reporters et all were on about him like he had a chance of winning it. HE ISNT EVEN DRAWING A SALLERY BTW!
he's 38 people WUASTCP.


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## Jwiffle (Mar 18, 2005)

muscleendurance said:


> he was nowhere and yet reporters et all were on about him like he had a chance of winning it.


You're funny "he was nowhere." 12th place is less than 10 spots from a podium spot, I wouldn't call that "Nowhere." And he wasn't even gunning for the Giro podium, so I'd say he he was quite close to "there." Now, if he was 112th, your statement may have made more sense.

Again, I don't know whether he will actually place on the podium in France, but it is obvious that he can still hang with the elite.


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## masterken911 (Jun 17, 2009)

whether lance will win the tour or not ( i'll be cheering for him ) his comeback to cycling is already a winner in my book. go lance and levi!!


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## albert owen (Jul 7, 2008)

Armstrong's return has added an interesting ingredient to this year's TdFand, of course, he does have a chance of winning.
His return creates a potential soap opera of epic proportions at Astana between him and Contador. This has, in my view, created a situation where Contador (who would have been the overwhelming favourite to win had LA not returned) is only a warm favourite. The door has been opened to several other contenders:
Sastre, the Schlecks, Evans and Menchov will all be fancying their chances racing against a divided and, therefore, weakened Astana.
This has the potential to be the best Tour for years.


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## hawker12 (Oct 19, 2003)

With at TT and mountain stage in the first week or so the leadership of Astana could be established quickly. However, if it is not then we could see some pretty wild drama within the team. I'm old enough to remember Lemond and Hinault fighting it out on the same squad...this could be very entertaining to watch but perhaps less so for the team and especially Bruyneel.


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## atpjunkie (Mar 23, 2002)

*I would really like to see*

him bury himself up a climb to launch AC on a big attack

see Lance in the role of assasin domestique


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## ttug (May 14, 2004)

*yup*



atpjunkie said:


> him bury himself up a climb to launch AC on a big attack
> 
> see Lance in the role of assasin domestique


I am getting a chuckle here as far as the folks who do not get, that a guy, who has a broken collar bone, 3 years out of competition, in his late 30,s placed 12th at a GT. Thats impressive, any way you slice it.

As to the TDF, I think that will be his precise role....


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