# Postal crashed mayo out...



## Utah CragHopper (May 9, 2003)

...according to a cyclingnews article. Adds another dimension to whether Postal should have driven the pace after the first cobbled section.

When one of your teammates crashes one of your competitors and you then order your team to use it as an opportunity to eliminate his chances that's freakin disgraceful. That's probably also the reason in all the various things the Posties have said and written about Mayo's crash they seem to be trying to distance themselves from what happened. Like they are embarrassed. The hammer went down and continued to be held down but from what they have said you would think they were all at the back just going with the flow.


----------



## Mike Prince (Jan 30, 2004)

*Care to post a link to the article?*

I read cyclingnews regularly and the only reference that I saw to the crash was that Benjamin Noval and Mayo hooked handlebars. If this is the story you are referring to, it did not say that USPS crashed out Mayo as you state.

Strange how everything Mayo has to say about it (in essence, 'that's racing') is completely opposite to what all of the conspiracy theorists here want to post about...


----------



## coreyb (Aug 4, 2003)

link?

"When one of your teammates crashes one of your competitors and you then order your team to use it as an opportunity to eliminate his chances that's freakin disgraceful."

i think your order of events is wrong here(not to mention your analysis), werent they already hammering when he crashed?


----------



## cyclejim (Mar 31, 2004)

Mike Prince said:


> I read cyclingnews regularly and the only reference that I saw to the crash was that Benjamin Noval and Mayo hooked handlebars. If this is the story you are referring to, it did not say that USPS crashed out Mayo as you state.
> 
> Strange how everything Mayo has to say about it (in essence, 'that's racing') is completely opposite to what all of the conspiracy theorists here want to post about...


Exactly my thoughts as well. Mayo doesnt seem to be screaming about what happened at all. There is nothing to indicate that "Postal crashed Mayo out" which implies that they did it on purpose. Sounds like incidental contact, part of racing.. it happens.


----------



## mohair_chair (Oct 3, 2002)

Utah CragHopper said:


> ...according to a cyclingnews article. Adds another dimension to whether Postal should have driven the pace after the first cobbled section.
> 
> When one of your teammates crashes one of your competitors and you then order your team to use it as an opportunity to eliminate his chances that's freakin disgraceful. That's probably also the reason in all the various things the Posties have said and written about Mayo's crash they seem to be trying to distance themselves from what happened. Like they are embarrassed. The hammer went down and continued to be held down but from what they have said you would think they were all at the back just going with the flow.


If I were Tyler or Jan, I would really be afraid, and I would definitely make sure Lance knew that I would be happy with 2nd or 3rd overall. I might even pay out some cash to buy protection from "accidents." God, these guys are ruthless. I wonder if Jan or Tyler will wake up tomorrow to find the head of one of those Credit Lyonnais lions in his bed. Scary stuff.


----------



## spookyload (Jan 30, 2004)

Take this all with a grain of salt folks. The origional posters name should actually be "Postal Hater" Most every thread he trolls with anti Lance and Postal stuff. Then if you say something to the opposite, he calls you a lance fan boy. Just ignore the post. 

On the other hand, I rewatched the section leading up to the first pave again. If you watch carefully, Postal was driving hard up till that point. There is about five instances where a EE rider is swerving, trying to force his way into the pack from the outside that causes several riders to make huge corrections. The first time I saw it, it didn't look like pro's. It looked like a bunch of cat5's in their first crit. The crash happens soon after since that is when the field splits.


----------



## svend (Jul 18, 2003)

Utah CragHopper said:


> When one of your teammates crashes one of your competitors and you then order your team to use it as an opportunity to eliminate his chances that's freakin disgraceful. .



Sad, very very sad....You must some very special inside knowledge to claim that LA ordered an attack once mayo went down especailly since the hammer was already down when it occured. I heard that all the posties were doing extra Mtn Cross training in the off season to help their bike handling skills in order to be able to methodically take out each opponent. There is also a guy from area 51 ready to take the second shot from the hill in case the WWF take down tactic fails. Your lack of meaningful insight is what is disgraceful.


----------



## thatsmybush (Mar 12, 2002)

mohair_chair said:


> If I were Tyler or Jan, I would really be afraid, and I would definitely make sure Lance knew that I would be happy with 2nd or 3rd overall. I might even pay out some cash to buy protection from "accidents." God, these guys are ruthless. I wonder if Jan or Tyler will wake up tomorrow to find the head of one of those Credit Lyonnais lions in his bed. Scary stuff.



"Well Listen here my Krout, Mick Friend."


----------



## Fogdweller (Mar 26, 2004)

*Tour passes historic Grassy Knoll*

I read a lot of funny things on this site but your post just took the lead. I can hear Johann on the radio now, "Noval, do your best to take yourself and Mayo out of the race on the eve of the team time trial. If you can, try and wait until Marco Velo is somewhere near you, he's on especially good form this year. Don't try to bouncing yourself off Ullrich, he outweighs you by 40 pounds."

Postal distancing themselves from the "incident"? Absurd. There have been multiple crashes on every stage thus far (except the prologue, which is not considered a stage) and there isn't a lot of talk about it because it is a part of the sport. Postal capitalizing on Mayo's crash? There were two men off the front, one was Voigt who started the day :23 out of yellow and :05 behind Armstrong. Postal's job was to keep Armstrong at the front and out of harm's way befire the cobbles came, which is where Mayo, Ullrich and other contenders were when the crash happened.

As for capitalizing on misfortune, the gentlemen's rule is that the yellow jersey is won and lost on physical ability regardless of who is wearing it. Teams are not expected to sit up everytime a rider in the top 20 goes down. A rider's crash is their own problem and the problem of their team, not the peleton's. If the yellow jersey crashes, every effort will be made to have it rejoin the group and it's original positioning but that is it. People on this board last year criticized Vino for pushing his pace after Beloki crashed, claiming that he "capitalized" and rode dishonorably. Hogwash. He was off the front at the time and had been for the entire climb. Beloki was not in Yellow, Armstrong was and was unscathed by the crash, positionwise. He was not obligated to be caught because there was a crash behind him.

Funny stuff. Do keep it coming.


----------



## snowman3 (Jul 20, 2002)

mohair_chair said:


> If I were Tyler or Jan, I would really be afraid, and I would definitely make sure Lance knew that I would be happy with 2nd or 3rd overall. I might even pay out some cash to buy protection from "accidents." God, these guys are ruthless. I wonder if Jan or Tyler will wake up tomorrow to find the head of one of those Credit Lyonnais lions in his bed. Scary stuff.


Tyler is a "close friend" of LA, so he is "one of the family" if ya know what mean... cough (sopranos) cough. I doubt that LA ORDERED a hit on mayo. He probably just mentioned to the posties (while having a nice itallian meal) that mayo was "bad for business" and that it "would be nice" if he wasn't such a threat to the yellow.

I'm sure Jan has given jobs to some of LAs friends and paid his dues to "the family". You know, they get paid by Jan but they don't really show up for work. Maybe Jan hired some buddies of Lance's trainers. That would explain a lot. Jan pays for trainers but they don't have to work, so he's always out of shape. 

The tour is corrupt. The organizers want it to look like they stacked the deck against LA this year, but its all a smoke screen. Every rider is on the payroll. TdF wants more publicity, so the past couple of years they have worked hard to get someone 6 in a row.


----------



## ttug (May 14, 2004)

*I dont get it, really*

Let me see if I get the gist of this as it were.......

IF for example you spend MONTHS preparing for a specific cycling event, while enduring:
diet torture, wind tunnels, weather, the press, training, accusations, team dynamics, pain, fatigue etc etc etc etc ODDS ARE you show up to win.

SO, if while at this event you KNOW a potential adversary has a weak team 
why not ride to exploit that????
Why is it so unfair to do so???

Usually, most of us refer to these activities as racing. Do you think Lance is showing up along with Jan and Tyler and thinks, yeah, this year is a no go, my trick right knee is itching me and thats an omen to go home??

nooOOOOOOOOOOOOO. In the same situation you would ride by whatever racing means needed to exploit an opponents weakness.You would ride until your heart popped.

Sort of why you dont see Heras outsprinting McEwen, it wont happen. Just wait til the mountains and by by. OR, thats why you wave by by to Jan in the mountains when the attacks come. Let me guess, thats UNFAIR TOO HUH?

Its a race and if you want to win, you ride the way Postal is now.


----------



## atpjunkie (Mar 23, 2002)

*I could just pile on*

but I'm glad at least I'm not the only one who thinks this troll is nuts. "Call Skully, call Mulder I think I saw the smoking man in the USPS team car!"
therapists are standing by......
suicide watch T-18 days and counting.
please, please share the psychotropics with the rest of us.


----------



## atpjunkie (Mar 23, 2002)

*you forgot to add*

that both Phonak and his beloved Jan's T-Mob put riders up front as well. so it was a 3 team conspiracy, so now we need a link. Phonak uses Campy so it isn't a Shimano based conspiracy, T-Mob is Adidas, USPS is Nike, Phonak Nalini I think, no connection there, I got it. It was an Anti Basque-Separatist derived. Lance being from Texas home of Dubya is rallying EuroUnion countries to stamp out terrorism on their continent. It all ties into the train bombing, the World Trade Center, the Unibomber......


----------



## thatsmybush (Mar 12, 2002)

atpjunkie said:


> but I'm glad at least I'm not the only one who thinks this troll is nuts. "Call Skully, call Mulder I think I saw the smoking man in the USPS team car!"
> therapists are standing by......
> suicide watch T-18 days and counting.
> please, please share the psychotropics with the rest of us.


What you think this is funny, like funny how, like a clown funny? 
Like this amuses you?
(Reaching for a pistol)
Just what is so f'in Funny about this!


----------



## carlos (May 26, 2004)

its impossible to know the truth now. how you guys knows its true or not???? one thing i know for sure, postal, t-mobile and phonak were the teams setting that mad pace after mayo´s crash.

all we can do for now is express what we think about it. not express what really happened. IN MY OPINION, thats a very coward act.they didnt attacked mayo when he was riding, the attack begun when mayo went down. i would love to see they doing that to mayo on the mountains. 

why mayou should have complained? the race directors would have gave him a special bonus? i dont think so. thas race, dirty race, but still race.

now, lets share the rest of your OPINIONS, but its still impossible to know the truth.


----------



## atpjunkie (Mar 23, 2002)

*like Ha Ha funny.....?*

nice Pesci.....see I made it (Pesci) a verb. Maybe the mob was involved. Maybe they know some 'guys' at Mr. Bookmaker.


----------



## spookyload (Jan 30, 2004)

I guess it is true. USPS is really doing this on purpose. Today they took out some no-name Liberty rider as seen here, and Boogerd, and Pettachi in the same crash. Today they opted to use Azevedo, Beltran and Rubiera to do it though. They won't be needed till the mountains, so are disposeable this point in the race. If you look at the picture, I think that is Heras in the background. I would bet he was the target they were going after. These guys will do anything to win.


----------



## atpjunkie (Mar 23, 2002)

*Banzai!!!!*

kamikaze cycling tactics! USPS needs Japan's Naval Insignia (rising sun with beams) on their kits. That's what I call dedication to your team! Good Heras' teammates threw in those counter measures.


----------



## Mike Prince (Jan 30, 2004)

*Hope they don't get fined...*



spookyload said:


>


 ...by Lance for missing Heras. All that practice time gone to waste....


----------



## Mel Erickson (Feb 3, 2004)

*One correction*



carlos said:


> its impossible to know the truth now. how you guys knows its true or not???? one thing i know for sure, postal, t-mobile and phonak were the teams setting that mad pace after mayo´s crash.
> 
> all we can do for now is express what we think about it. not express what really happened. IN MY OPINION, thats a very coward act.they didnt attacked mayo when he was riding, the attack begun when mayo went down. i would love to see they doing that to mayo on the mountains.
> 
> ...


Postal, T-mobile and Phonak were setting the mad pace BEFORE Mayo's crash. The attack, if it can be called such, occured before the spill. Therefore, how can these teams be accused of taking advantage of the spill if the "attack" was already underway? Mayo wasn't in yellow so even the "unwritten" rule would not apply. Besides, in such a situation you can't really think that any one team, be they Postal, T-mobile, Phonak or whoever could control the peleton.


----------



## lonefrontranger (Feb 5, 2004)

*pave' tactics*



carlos said:


> ... postal, t-mobile and phonak were the teams setting that mad pace after mayo´s crash.


Let me preface this by saying I am no Lance fan. I personally think he's a rude, arrogant womanising prat who simply has the stellar luck to own a good publicity squad and a great human interest story. I respect him for the talented rider he is, but I'd be extremely happy for anyone else to win... preferably Tyler, since that means I can wave my localism flag (TH now lives part time up the canyon from me in Boulder), or Ullrich, since I've been a fan of the Kaiser's since back in '97 (redheads rule!).

Here's what I saw on the coverage, and read on cyclingnews and procycling.com reports, as well as what I know from watching numerous spring classics and my own personal racing experience. Going into the pave section, Phonak, T-Mobile, USPS and Quick-Step (well represented with classics racing specialists on all 4 teams) *all * attacked full-tilt aggro, and moreover, they accelerated *before * the crash ever occurred.

Were any of you well versed in classics race tactics, you would realise that there's a very simple reason for this: This is how you ride pave', regardless of the circumstances. Any classics riders worth his embrocation know that the way to survive these sections is to attack going into it as hard as you can to string things out single file (pave' is always extremely narrow) and to send all the crappy tentative bike handlers straight to the back to get them the hell out of your way.

Have ANY of you ever watched spring classics footage? Any of you? This is normal, people, not some innovative tactic dreamed up by evil overlords sitting in dark underground laboratories at Tailwind Sports HQ. If you want any hope of coming out on the right side of the time gaps after a pave' section, you damned well get your team up front, put the biggest, ugliest, meanest rider you own on point, and go balls-out apeshite. Crashes ALWAY happen on the entries. Why? Simple logistics: the road entering a pave' stretch narrows, often from 2 lanes to 1 or sometimes 3/4 of a lane. To make things even more entertaining, there are generally fieldstone walls or big ditches hard by to boot, which creates a bigtime bottleneck and leaves nowhere for the riders to escape if (when) things go pear-shaped. And the frosting on top is that there's generally also a 3-4 metre long pothole-ridden "transition" zone with sharp-edged cobbles sticking up (or a metal cattle guard even) that wreaks havoc via punctures, just for additional glee factor. Attacking onto pave' sections is SOP. Hell, it goes on in the local friggin Boulder Roubaix race - pace is nice and steady on the asphalt, then WHAM - you hit some skinny little gravel farm road and everyone goes full bore ballistic. And it's always some big powerful roleur up front who's all muscle and no brains, driving the pace clear to Pukesville whilst doing two-wheel drifts thru the corners, which means everyone else is desperately scrambling in the gutters for a wheel and taking as many risks as they can bloody well tolerate. All you can do is hang on, hope for the best and pray you come out the other end upright.

Also, for all you bleeding heart "padrone-rule" Nazis out there, please get over yourselves, this is a bike race. Yes there are certain unwritten rules, but taking advantage of an opportune moment in this case is not only expected, it's excellent tactics. How about Passage du Gois in '99? Was anyone whinging about the fact that Zulle and Olano got taken out of GC hope on Day 3? Postal, Phonak, T-Mobile and Quickstep were under no obligation to wait for anyone in this situation, crashes or no crashes. In fact, the Hushovd / Mayo chase group was also delayed by a railroad crossing barrier, but I don't notice anyone calling down imprecations on Jean-Marie LeBlanc for this "unfair rule". The TDF rules don't make any allowances for chase groups stuck at barrier crossings - you get stuck, that is your sorry luck. It is what it is, and that's bike racing (and any other tired aphorisms you'd care to throw at it).

To clarify, the "padrone" crash-and-wait charity rule ONLY applies to 1) the yellow jersey wearer and 2) the yellow jersey _whilst on the shoulders of a legitimate contender_. Not some first-week lucky opportunist like Thor, much as I may like The Viking.

I like Mayo a lot. I think he's a classy climber and a sporty lad in general. I'd love to see him take some stages in the Pyrenees for those wild-n-crazy EE fans. But unfortunately, he is at the mercy of a team that is specifically composed with one goal in mind: winning Basque mountain stages for the Basque fans and sponsors. This unfortunately means that not only do they not have fabulous pave' skills, in the end they also don't have the raw horsepower to tow their leader back onto a roleur brute squad driven lead group that's jamming along at 55 klicks plus on a flat, windy stage.


----------



## lnin0 (Apr 8, 2002)

lonefrontranger said:


> Let me preface this by saying I am no Lance fan. I personally think he's a rude, arrogant womanising prat who simply has the stellar luck to own a good publicity squad and a great human interest story. I respect him for the talented rider he is, but I'd be extremely happy for anyone else to win... preferably Tyler, since that means I can wave my localism flag (TH now lives part time up the canyon from me in Boulder), or Ullrich, since I've been a fan of the Kaiser's since back in '97 (redheads rule!).
> 
> Here's what I saw on the coverage, and read on cyclingnews and procycling.com reports, as well as what I know from watching numerous spring classics and my own personal racing experience. Going into the pave section, Phonak, T-Mobile, USPS and Quick-Step (well represented with classics racing specialists on all 4 teams) *all * attacked full-tilt aggro, and moreover, they accelerated *before * the crash ever occurred.
> 
> ...


Possibly the most brilliant post I have every read.


----------



## cyclist1969 (Jun 25, 2004)

*Dead On!!!!*



lonefrontranger said:


> Let me preface this by saying I am no Lance fan. I personally think he's a rude, arrogant womanising prat who simply has the stellar luck to own a good publicity squad and a great human interest story. I respect him for the talented rider he is, but I'd be extremely happy for anyone else to win... preferably Tyler, since that means I can wave my localism flag (TH now lives part time up the canyon from me in Boulder), or Ullrich, since I've been a fan of the Kaiser's since back in '97 (redheads rule!).
> 
> Here's what I saw on the coverage, and read on cyclingnews and procycling.com reports, as well as what I know from watching numerous spring classics and my own personal racing experience. Going into the pave section, Phonak, T-Mobile, USPS and Quick-Step (well represented with classics racing specialists on all 4 teams) *all * attacked full-tilt aggro, and moreover, they accelerated *before * the crash ever occurred.
> 
> ...


Though I differ from you in that I am a huge LA fan, your take is 100% dead on. Thank you for bringing some racing "intelligence" to this forum. Also note that if you read Scott Sunderland's diary on cyclingnews.com you will see that EE was one of the main driving forces out there 40k from the start of the cobbles. The problem was, they just didn't know what the hell they were doing in "classics territory." 

Also, for those who have brought up '99 stage 3. It was Once (riding for Olano) who ripped the peloton apart when they knew Zulle went down, Postal just knew they had to be out in front because it was a dangerous crossing. Sometimes doing recon of stages can be beneficial, I don't know, just a thought....


----------



## asmith (Jun 26, 2004)

Utah CragHopper ,

I know you don't like Lance Armstrong or USPS. Do you seriously think USPS would risk one of their team members to take out someone who is a minor threat compared to Ullrich or Hamilton? Accidents are a part of racing. When you are in a pack of 100+ riders traveling at a high speed down a narrow road, you are at risk of crashing. The fact that Mayo happened to crash with a Postal member does not mean that they were taking him out on purpose. 

If you think that every accident that happens on the course that does not benefit your favorite rider is a conspiracy to get Lance a 6th win, you are going to be miserable the rest of the tour. Enjoy the race as it is. Crashes are a part of it and can totally change the outcome of the race.

If you really want to start some conspiracy theories, I think everyone new Postal was going to win the TTT and sandbagged it since they knew they would be gifted additional seconds because of the new rule.

Get over your hate of everything Lance and enjoy the race. If you feel everyone is conspiring against your favorite riders, you are going to have a miserable time the rest of this race. People crash, have mechanical problems, bad days, etc. You can try to blame it on the riders you hate, but it will not change the outcome of this race (whatever it may be). I am cheering on Lance Armstrong. If he crashes, I am not going to blame it on anyone. It is part of the race. If a fan were to knock any contender off their bike, I would feel sorry for them, but two racers getting tangled up is a risk they take and is a part of the race. If you don't want to take that risk you can attack and get ahead of the peloton or drop off the back.

JMO

Andrew


----------



## dabearski (Feb 8, 2004)

*Preface this!*

'Let me preface this by saying I am no Lance fan. I personally think he's a rude, arrogant womanising prat who (simply has the stellar luck to own a good publicity squad and a great human interest story).'

Let me preface that with this!!. Don't know you or you life. But as one who has lost his Dad, brother, and wife to cancer I find such statements as offensive BS!



As for the rest of your post, right on!


----------



## dabearski (Feb 8, 2004)

Let me preface this by saying I am no Lance fan. I personally think he's a rude, arrogant womanising prat who (simply has the stellar luck to own a good publicity squad and a great human interest story).'

Let me preface that with this!!. Don't know you or you life. But as one who has lost his Dad, brother, and wife to cancer I find such statements as offensive BS!



As for the rest of your post, right on!!!


----------



## spankdoggie (Feb 13, 2004)

lonefrontranger said:


> Let me preface this by saying I am no Lance fan. I personally think he's a rude, arrogant womanising prat who simply has the stellar luck to own a good publicity squad and a great human interest story. I respect him for the talented rider he is, but I'd be extremely happy for anyone else to win... preferably Tyler, since that means I can wave my localism flag (TH now lives part time up the canyon from me in Boulder), or Ullrich, since I've been a fan of the Kaiser's since back in '97 (redheads rule!).
> 
> Here's what I saw on the coverage, and read on cyclingnews and procycling.com reports, as well as what I know from watching numerous spring classics and my own personal racing experience. Going into the pave section, Phonak, T-Mobile, USPS and Quick-Step (well represented with classics racing specialists on all 4 teams) *all * attacked full-tilt aggro, and moreover, they accelerated *before * the crash ever occurred.
> 
> ...


Extremely well written and intelligent thoughts. Thank you for posting this. Best post I have ever read here at rbr. Thank you.


----------



## lonefrontranger (Feb 5, 2004)

dabearski said:


> Don't know you or you life. But as one who has lost his Dad, brother, and wife to cancer I find such statements as offensive BS!
> As for the rest of your post, right on!


I lost an aunt and a grandmother to ovarian cancer, and a favourite former teammate of mine from Cincy is now struggling with breast cancer, possibly terminal at this point. 

You would do well not to take internet discussions personally. Doing so can cost a lot of grief for other's amusement. For all you know I'm just some 13 y.o. Nintendo junkie trolling out of boredom.

I support the LA foundation and all they do, and I've personally promoted LA series juniors' races. Can you say that? That does not, and never will change the fact that the man himself has an unfortunate personality which has benefitted from a passel of great spin doctors. I do not deny that he's a great athlete, never did, said it in my previous post. I don't deny that he's made a great contribution to both cancer research advocasy and cycling benefits, programs I've been involved in myself. I merely refuse to be a head-in-the-sand rah-rah armchair sentimentalist who blindly accepts everything the media feeds me like 99% of the US population does. Ahh, isn't it so easy to just sit back and let the talking heads on TV do your thinking for you? 

To the point, I've met the guy on more than one occasion, and know people who deal with him on a regular basis. I could tell a lot of stories, most of them eye-openers, but they'd be a lot more offensive and unfair than me saying he is a prat (something he freely admits, only he tends to use the a-hole term in reference to himself). So I'll just say that, while I respect the man, warts and all, he's not someone I'd ever personally choose as a role model.


----------



## cyclejim (Mar 31, 2004)

lonefrontranger said:


> I merely refuse to be a head-in-the-sand rah-rah armchair sentimentalist who blindly accepts everything the media feeds me like 99% of the US population does. Ahh, isn't it so easy to just sit back and let the talking heads on TV do your thinking for you?


 I definitely disagree with your assessment of 99% of the US population.


----------



## Mel Erickson (Feb 3, 2004)

*Great post*

However, I don't think Mayo is quite as classy as you. I think what he did to Jan last year (he and his EE partner sniping him at the end of the mountaintop finish) was without class. I know it's racing but it wasn't for a win and they took advantage of the tow until the end. Just seemed wrong to me.


----------



## Softrider (Feb 3, 2004)

*The troll may be on to something!*

Remember in last year tour, it was Lance himself who tried to take Mayo out. 

What does the USPS team have against this poor guy?????


----------



## ttug (May 14, 2004)

Softrider said:


> Remember in last year tour, it was Lance himself who tried to take Mayo out.
> 
> What does the USPS team have against this poor guy?????


Its as if Mayo was a race opponent or something like that.........


----------



## darkwing duck (May 18, 2004)

*If you look real closely at the video*



Softrider said:


> Remember in last year tour, it was Lance himself who tried to take Mayo out.
> 
> What does the USPS team have against this poor guy?????


It was Emma O'Reiley who had the bag (probably full of used needles) that got tangled up in Lance's handlebars.


----------



## RedMenace (Jan 28, 2004)

*Stunning, brilliant prose ...*



lonefrontranger said:


> Have ANY of you ever watched spring classics footage? Any of you? This is normal, people, not some innovative tactic dreamed up by evil overlords sitting in dark underground laboratories at Tailwind Sports HQ. If you want any hope of coming out on the right side of the time gaps after a pave' section, you damned well get your team up front, put the biggest, ugliest, meanest rider you own on point, and go balls-out apeshite. Crashes ALWAY happen on the entries. Why? Simple logistics: the road entering a pave' stretch narrows, often from 2 lanes to 1 or sometimes 3/4 of a lane. To make things even more entertaining, there are generally fieldstone walls or big ditches hard by to boot, which creates a bigtime bottleneck and leaves nowhere for the riders to escape if (when) things go pear-shaped. And the frosting on top is that there's generally also a 3-4 metre long pothole-ridden "transition" zone with sharp-edged cobbles sticking up (or a metal cattle guard even) that wreaks havoc via punctures, just for additional glee factor. Attacking onto pave' sections is SOP. Hell, it goes on in the local friggin Boulder Roubaix race - pace is nice and steady on the asphalt, then WHAM - you hit some skinny little gravel farm road and everyone goes full bore ballistic. And it's always some big powerful roleur up front who's all muscle and no brains, driving the pace clear to Pukesville whilst doing two-wheel drifts thru the corners, which means everyone else is desperately scrambling in the gutters for a wheel and taking as many risks as they can bloody well tolerate. All you can do is hang on, hope for the best and pray you come out the other end upright..


and clearheaded thinking. Great combination. Props to you --


----------



## atpjunkie (Mar 23, 2002)

*Lfr*

is an excellent addition to any RbR board. she's been around forever in the racing and cx forums so some of us are already familiar to this 'self proclaimed fat-chick' who can ride probably 90% of us into the ground. Always insightful, well written and from a perspective of someone deeply embedded in the bike community. (in other words she knows her sh!t)
and people, please read, she put a disclaimer in her statements so all you superfans (cult of personality types) back off and quit playing the cancer card. We've most likely all lost someone to it, we most likely all support the LA Foundation and it's efforts, it doesn't mean we HAVE to like him as well. To not be a LA fan does not by inverse make you ProCancer. This sort of logic is what is too often used by our present powers that be and it's absolutely BS! sorry for the rant.


----------



## burpee (Jul 7, 2004)

*For those not willing to read her entire post...*

Here are a few of the gems that had me busting a gut...

"If you want any hope of coming out on the right side of the time gaps after a pave' section, you damned well get your team up front, put the biggest, ugliest, meanest rider you own on point, and go balls-out apeshite."

"And it's always some big powerful roleur up front who's all muscle and no brains, driving the pace clear to Pukesville whilst doing two-wheel drifts thru the corners"

"not only do they (EE) not have fabulous pave' skills, in the end they also don't have the raw horsepower to tow their leader back onto a roleur brute squad driven lead group that's jamming along at 55 klicks plus on a flat, windy stage."

I was holding my hands over my mouth to prevent my cubicle-mates from hearing me giggle like a fool!
Brains, a pen like a sabre, and a sense of humor to boot! 
LoneFrontRanger, I think I love you.


----------



## Bocephus Jones (Feb 3, 2004)

burpee said:


> Here are a few of the gems that had me busting a gut...
> 
> "If you want any hope of coming out on the right side of the time gaps after a pave' section, you damned well get your team up front, put the biggest, ugliest, meanest rider you own on point, and go balls-out apeshite."
> 
> ...


No kidding. I've said it before...LFR could easily have a career in sports writing. She's pretty good at it. Why not moonlight for Velonews LFR? You'd be a good fit.


----------



## lonefrontranger (Feb 5, 2004)

*egad!*



Bocephus Jones said:


> Why not moonlight for Velonews LFR? You'd be a good fit.


Thanks, man I know you're being sincere, but I've done magazine stints in the past, to little effect. I have issues with authority, as should be patently obvious by now... Besides Mad Dog O'Grady would soundly kick my ass for being a mere pathetic shadow of his role as resident droll curmudgeon.

Worst part is that once I really get rolling my posts tend to resemble an out of control freeride descent. I type faster than I think (ain't hard, trust me). Holy crap, what a grammatically feeble rant that was. Numbers agreement, whee doggies. And I'm always too lazy to check my sources (bah!) so my 2 remaining intermittently functional braincells failed to recall that it was indeed ONCE (thank you cyclist1969!) who instigated the PD Gois attack in '99 that led to Zulle's 6 minute loss, and Olano actually benefitted from the day. Heigh, ho, there goes my cred, bye-bye. 

I know! I'll go plague the wankers on the IMDB board to see what sort of trouble I can create with all the rabid Spiderman fanboys (tho I have to admit Tobey Maguire IS a hottie...).


----------



## AJS (Aug 7, 2003)

Real deal: Noval is an Algerian turrrurist looking to mess with the Euros. Meanwhile, increase Threat Warning Color to Euscatel bright orange.


----------



## snowman3 (Jul 20, 2002)

Softrider said:


> Remember in last year tour, it was Lance himself who tried to take Mayo out.
> 
> What does the USPS team have against this poor guy?????


Maybe Mayo had something to do with Lance's marital strife? Has anyone seen Mayo talking to Lance's ex? I bet there is dirt to be found if we anlayze the hours of home video surrounding previous TdFs. You know darn well that Discovery isn't going to sponsor any "unsolved history" TV shows now that they are sponsors. So it seems Lance is now friendly with anyone who would investigate such a conspiracy. Hmmm. It grows deeper.


----------



## atpjunkie (Mar 23, 2002)

*Discovery and unsolved mysteries*

it's why they took the contract. The got a great deal becuase they had some dirt. LA had to pen the deal to keep em quiet. So who took LAnce out today, I see it's now full on warfare in the Peloton. We need to get OLN to hire WWE announcers and drop Trautwig. :"Sunday, SUNDAY, SUNDAY, bonecrushing Tour action!"


----------



## dez182 (Jul 11, 2002)

*not quite*



atpjunkie said:


> nice Pesci.....see I made it (Pesci) a verb. Maybe the mob was involved. Maybe they know some 'guys' at Mr. Bookmaker.


Acutally, you made it a noun.


----------



## T-Doc (Apr 4, 2002)

Just for the record...I know many people who have ridden with LA here in Texas before he hit it big, and your assessment of him is right on, including the fact that he freely acknowledges his personality faults. Doesn't take away from his accomplishments or the very selfless use of celebrity for fund raising for cancer research...but he is what he is. As far as your writing talents, I agree with the others that you should go pro...yours posts here are 10x better than most of the columns in the cycling rags.


----------



## J24 (Oct 8, 2003)

*Great post Lonefrontranger*

Nough said


----------



## lonefrontranger (Feb 5, 2004)

*thanks, Spank*

Do you happen to have any good dog-chasing-bike pics? I think this thread desperately needs one. That or a crazed weiner dog. Better yet, a crazed weiner dog chasing a bike.  I had a weiner dog come gunning for me once and the little bugger was straight up serious about tearing me limb from limb if he ever caught me. Scared the living bejeezus out of me. Thank god there wasn't any climbing involved in the chase or I'd have been weiner schnitzel.


----------



## lonefrontranger (Feb 5, 2004)

*but the real question is...*



burpee said:


> I was holding my hands over my mouth to prevent my cubicle-mates from hearing me giggle like a fool!


Did you spit _(insert beverage of choice here)_  out your nose and onto your keyboard??

That, my friends, is my ultimate goal.


----------



## _jim_ (Apr 30, 2003)

Kudos to Utah Craghopper for the opening post. Don't forget that because Lance is an American, so it's OK for him to do as he pleases. I am sure 90% of the forum members echo this sentiment.

Moving forward, Armstrong crashed at least once today, so hopefully he is feeling a little sore. Such a pity the crash didn't happen about 50kms from the end of the stage, with the remainder of the peleton able to take advantage of the situation, and lay the hammer down to gap him. It would have been comedy seeing Mr Personality himself, Hincapie on the front, leading the chase.

Oh well, the Tour is long from over yet.


----------



## cyclejim (Mar 31, 2004)

_jim_ said:


> Kudos to Utah Craghopper for the opening post. Don't forget that because Lance is an American, so it's OK for him to do as he pleases. I am sure 90% of the forum members echo this sentiment.
> 
> Moving forward, Armstrong crashed at least once today, so hopefully he is feeling a little sore. Such a pity the crash didn't happen about 50kms from the end of the stage, with the remainder of the peleton able to take advantage of the situation, and lay the hammer down to gap him. It would have been comedy seeing Mr Personality himself, Hincapie on the front, leading the chase.
> 
> Oh well, the Tour is long from over yet.


  I love how the bitterness gets deeper and more painful as Paris gets closer. Happens every year I guess.


----------



## mgp (Feb 3, 2004)

_jim_ said:


> Kudos to Utah Craghopper for the opening post. Don't forget that because Lance is an American, so it's OK for him to do as he pleases. I am sure 90% of the forum members echo this sentiment.


    
Are you retarded? Or did Mom and Dad forget to lock the AOL password?


----------



## Coolhand (Jul 28, 2002)

1. Please do not feed the trolls, it just encourages them.

2. EE should have practiced the cobbles alot prior to the race- course preview is critical for a podium contender, especially if you have a weakness.

3. EE's director sportif screwed up in not having any top-notch roleurs on the team. A team of all climbers is a mistake. Anyone doubt whether Phonak, Postal, CSC or even T-mobile could have closed that gap?

4. Can you imagine the things people who say about you, if you were famous and they were not. Is LA a self-absorbed hardcase- yep. Even he admits it. So are many other famous althletes like Michael Jordan and Tiger Woods. What he really _is_: a former world champion, 5 time winner of the Tour de France and a major force for cancer research and advocacy. *Everything else is usually hersay (at best), sour grapes and the traditional dislike of the current Patron*.

5. Almost all of the other 5 time winners went through the same thing (even Big Mig who is widely held out to be a nice guy). Heck some fan even belted Eddy in the middle of the TdF. Pointing to Tyler doesn't count as he is atypical in many ways- and is enjoying the traditional favor accorded the underdog. I really like him (and his is the only cycling poster in my office), but never forget how quickly he spurned Postal and more notably CSC to advance his personal agenda and goals. There are no saint's in the peleton- these are very intense, focused, driven hardmen dedicated to going fast and winning, with everything else coming later. Those who are not don't make it to the podium.


----------



## rclements16 (May 3, 2004)

*This is a bike forum ... not a philisophical forum*



carlos said:


> its impossible to know the truth now. how you guys knows its true or not???? one thing i know for sure, postal, t-mobile and phonak were the teams setting that mad pace after mayo´s crash.
> 
> all we can do for now is express what we think about it. not express what really happened. IN MY OPINION, thats a very coward act.they didnt attacked mayo when he was riding, the attack begun when mayo went down. i would love to see they doing that to mayo on the mountains.
> 
> ...


I thought Jean Paul Sartre was FRENCH ... NOT SPANISH, but maybe French doesn't translate well to Spanish.


----------



## rclements16 (May 3, 2004)

*Don't forget the important stuff too ...*



lonefrontranger said:


> Let me preface this by saying I am no Lance fan. I personally think he's a rude, arrogant womanising prat who simply has the stellar luck to own a good publicity squad and a great human interest story. I respect him for the talented rider he is, but I'd be extremely happy for anyone else to win... preferably Tyler, since that means I can wave my localism flag (TH now lives part time up the canyon from me in Boulder), or Ullrich, since I've been a fan of the Kaiser's since back in '97 (redheads rule!).
> 
> Here's what I saw on the coverage, and read on cyclingnews and procycling.com reports, as well as what I know from watching numerous spring classics and my own personal racing experience. Going into the pave section, Phonak, T-Mobile, USPS and Quick-Step (well represented with classics racing specialists on all 4 teams) *all * attacked full-tilt aggro, and moreover, they accelerated *before * the crash ever occurred.
> 
> ...



And beside Euskaltel has the coolest looking outfits as well, but Extondo takes forever to deliver the goods ... Hey, I wonder if Lance, Trek and Nike are the TRIAD that's blocking their shipments? Let's look into it.


----------



## _jim_ (Apr 30, 2003)

Coolhand, is there any chance I get the Cliff Notes version of your post?


----------



## 97 Teran (Feb 17, 2004)

*Good points made*



Coolhand said:


> 1. Please do not feed the trolls, it just encourages them.
> 
> 3. EE's director sportif screwed up in not having any top-notch roleurs on the team. A team of all climbers is a mistake. Anyone doubt whether Phonak, Postal, CSC or even T-mobile could have closed that gap?
> 
> ...


Actually, I think Euskaltel did drop one or two climbers in favor of what passes as a 'roleur' in their squad- Roberto Laiseka wasn't named for the team, and someone else... the name escapes me. But it obviously didn't help them in stage 3.

And as far as personalities, you're absolutely right- to be a successful pro athlete, the vast majority are exceptionally motivated and therefore often overbearing. It's kind of like being a politician- very few who go far are truly 'likeable', they're too focused and have made too many sacrifices along the way. 

And re: point 5, it's natural to remember people more fondly as water passes under the bridge- lots of people didn't like Merckx back when, and the same with Indurain (I have no idea about Hinault). You rarely hear anything but platitudes now, but that's normal. 

By the by, I cracked up at the troll feeding comment- classic.


----------



## atpjunkie (Mar 23, 2002)

*don't throw leftover cliff bars off of bridges*

as this will feed them as well. I rewatched the highlights and that stage again. time gap was 30 seconds post crash with EE riding hard. That group led by 3 teams Ileares B., EE and Creit Ag, lost the other 3 plus minutes on their own. They just didn't have the horsepower to reel it in. with all 3 teams working they had no abiltiy to counter and turned 30 seconds into that time gap. As I stated in a ton of posts it's like what Tyelr did to EE (Mayo and Zubeldia) last year on his solo break. They had no team to help reel him in.
I think a Basque Rouler is oxymoronic. There are no big motors in orange. As for Hinault he had a ton of enemies. Beloved by most of the French but not much else, and Anquetil was disliked even by his own countrymen.


----------



## mdehner (Sep 1, 2002)

*Two words:*



cyclejim said:


> I definitely disagree with your assessment of 99% of the US population.



Jery Springer.


----------



## indytrekracer (Jul 13, 2004)

One additional point about the tatics.

Pretty much all the knowlegable cycling fans agree that many teams were pushing the pace leading into the cobbles. Mayo crashed after the pace was already full go. Hincapie and Ekimov hammered the cobbles as planned long before the stage started. 

What hasn't been pointed out is that on exiting the cobbles, the lead group was about 30 riders. In this group was Lance, Ulrich, and Hamilton. Heras and Levi were in the second group. Postal, Phonak, and T-Mobile were trying to stay away from Heras and Levi just a much as they were trying to stay away from Mayo. Hera and Levi's team were strong enough to close the gap, but by then the 2nd cobble section was just ahead, and the lead out for it started up again. 

Once through the 2nd cobble section, the sprinters who were left sent their teams to the front to lead out for the sprint. 

Once the race is at full speed there is no stopping.
------
Historic notes

Lance is given way too much credit for waiting when Ulrich went off the road in 2002. There was no tatical advantage to be gain by Lance Attacking. He was off the front with no team mates and long flat section of road to cover before the final climb. He waited just as much for his teammates as he did Ulrich. But it made a good story line.

In my opinion Ulrich had no obligation to wait for Lance in 2003. Lance crashed because he road too close to the fans on a corner while the race was full on up the final climb. I think that Hamilton and Ulrich were unsure if Lance's crash was his fault or the fans, and slowed down out of respect. 

The bottom line is that "unwritten rules" are not written down because they are hard to interprit and are up to the riders and race directors to work out. They also probably change slightly from year to year and era to era.


----------



## The Human G-Nome (Aug 26, 2002)

lnin0 said:


> Possibly the most brilliant post I have every read.


LFR knows her stuff but when she says "Anyone?".... who is she talking about? I think the vast majority of people realize that not only is there no conspiracy, but also that you'd have to be a fool and have a VERY meager cycling IQ to think anything that happened was even remotely unsportsmanlike, let alone unfair. 

Can you imagine what would happen if Postal takes the advice of the few assorted crackheads on this site who don't understand the tactics involved in racing the pave? 

Postal goes to the front.
RADIO HEADSET: Mayo is down. I repeat, Mayo is down. 
HINCAPIE: What should we do?
RADIO HEADSET: Sit up and slow the pace to 13 mph on the pave. Please assume that T-Mobile, Quickstep and Phonak will sit up when they see the pace slowing. Please flail your arms around and hold up the international sign for "stop".
HINCAPIE: What should I tell the other teams? Do they know I was elected "stage captain"?
RADIO HEADSET: Don't question my authority Georgie! This is Mayo we're talking about. He's a "contender", but his team is weak. If you don't wait then you'll have elimanted one of Lance's rivals.
HINCAPIE: 10-4. Oh wait a second.... what if no one listens and they just ride around me and end up gapping the rest of the peleton? What if there is a GC rider in this group? What if Lance's chances for the GC goes out the window? Are you sure that all of our radio sets are tuned to the same frequency?


----------

