# Mass bike traffic ticket at downtown Woodside



## Francis Cebedo (Aug 1, 2001)

repost from PenVelo group:
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After turning at Roberts Market, the Saturday AM ride was swarmed by about two patrol cars and three motorcycle cops across from Woodside School. I was up near the front at the intersection and came to almost a stop (balancing on my pedals, but probably still rolling a bit, so technically, yes, I am guilty too). I looked both ways - no traffic and no cops - before starting up again. The police were not taking any excuses and gave everyone a citation saying that they blew through the stop sign at 10+ mph even though that was not true. As usual, once the front starts going through everyone else follows them. The police held up the ride for about a half hour and issued about 30 - 40 tickets to the entire group.

Later as I continued on with four other guys, we approached Page Mill Road after going over the hill at Arastradero. On the corner there was a pickup truck pulled off onto the dirt. Two guys sitting in it looked suspiciously like police, though they were not in uniform. Sure enough, up at the Park and Ride lot at Page Mill and 280, the sheriff's squad car was lurking yet again. We stopped at both stop signs, so there was no problem, but everyone should be aware that not seeing a cop at an intersection does not mean it is OK to breeze through. It looks to me like they are getting very tricky and possibly having plainclothes officers alerting the uniformed police to make the busts.

Dave K.


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## Guest (Sep 1, 2010)

A couple weeks ago, I was doing my Sunday loop and was riding N. on Canada Rd. There's two stop signs on the first leg of Canada (before you go under 280). There was a motorcycle cop sitting off to the side, kinda hiding, just S of the first stop sign. As I approached he took off and pulled over a group of 5-6 riders who just blew through the stop sign heading S. There's no cross street there, the street dead ends, so most people just blow through (I _used_ to be as guilty as any, no more). At the next stop sign (which is less than a mile up the road), there was another motorcycle cop sitting there.

On my return trip, the cop at the first stop sign had a young couple pulled over and was issuing them some paperwork as well. I'll bet he wrote 50 citations that morning. It looks like they're really cracking down on the cyclists in that area. On weekends the area is swarming w/ cyclists and it's easy pickins' for them. Most people have no clue that they're held to the same laws as the motor vehicles. It's especially tempting to blow a stop sign when there's no cross street, but it's the same as blowing one w/ a cross street.


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## Ridgetop (Mar 1, 2005)

Geeze man, there were 40 of you? You should have scattered like cock roaches and let the slowest people sacrafice themselves for the sake of everyone else. Noob .


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## Cliff O (Feb 10, 2004)

I saw that and wondered what exactly happened. I was in the lot at Woodside School unloading my bike for a Pescadero-Tunitas Creek ride. I figured it was something along the lines of that big group not doing a good job of sharing the road with all the other traffic on it.


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## Argentius (Aug 26, 2004)

*When this happens*

Y'all ought to get some photos to the newspaper of people following the law, EXACTLY, carefully -- you know, each of 40 riders coming to a complete stop, foot down, looking, rolling again. 

Make sure to do this, taking the lane, riding single-file, at a busy intersection.

Sheesh I hate police arbitrary nonsense.


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## dwgranda (Sep 8, 2009)

See cops at these two locations frequently. At page mill I usually see the sheriff writing someone in a car a ticket. Something about that location must cause cars to do something wrong. Woodside they don't play around, can't say I blame them. Not sure what to do about a group 40 large though. On Canada at least one of the Stops has STOP written in the car AND bike lane. If not unique, it certainly is rare. That alone should put people on notice.


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## dwgranda (Sep 8, 2009)

I hope this doesn't count as a hijack, but since you kinda brought it up... In the dead end situation you're talking about, if the stop line doesn't extend into the bike lane at a light or stop sign, do you have to follow the signal? One case that I'm thinking of is University heading west right as you come down the overpass from 101.


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## ziscwg (Apr 19, 2010)

City revenue generation......................................


Busting a meth dealer doesn't get the city much money. It costs them a lot.


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## ukbloke (Sep 1, 2007)

I'd say that at least 50% of all motorists fail to stop properly when turning right at stop signs or red lights. The so-called "California stop" is so prevalent here that it is the norm. It is rare to see cars penalized for this. I hope that these cops are getting them too at the same intersections. They are far more dangerous to me as a fellow road user and also as a pedestrian.


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## ukbloke (Sep 1, 2007)

dwgranda said:


> I hope this doesn't count as a hijack, but since you kinda brought it up... In the dead end situation you're talking about, if the stop line doesn't extend into the bike lane at a light or stop sign, do you have to follow the signal? One case that I'm thinking of is University heading west right as you come down the overpass from 101.


I think these are fair game (but I could be wrong). Almost always the stop line extends through the bike lane, but there are some cases where it doesn't and in those I think it is deliberate and an indication that it is OK to pedal through. This can't be the case if there is a pedestrian crossing at that point for example. I think there is one like this on Evelyn westbound either in Mountain View or Sunnyvale. Anyway I would slow down and take caution in any case.


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## Francis Cebedo (Aug 1, 2001)

dwgranda said:


> I hope this doesn't count as a hijack, but since you kinda brought it up... In the dead end situation you're talking about, if the stop line doesn't extend into the bike lane at a light or stop sign, do you have to follow the signal? One case that I'm thinking of is University heading west right as you come down the overpass from 101.


No, you don't have to stop if the bike lane is uninterrupted by a white line.

fc


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## Francis Cebedo (Aug 1, 2001)

ziscwg said:


> City revenue generation......................................
> 
> 
> Busting a meth dealer doesn't get the city much money. It costs them a lot.


This is not a revenue generation issue. It's an issue of too many cyclists blowing through the stop sign in the center of Woodside (84 & Canada).

Sometimes, I have a snack there and it is laughable how many cyclists just blow through that stop sign even though are many cars waiting their turn. Hang out there for 10 minutes and see.

Cyclists need to stop.

And Woodside is idiotic for not putting a stop light on that major intersection.

fc


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## pisket (Dec 16, 2008)

francois said:


> No, you don't have to stop if the bike lane is uninterrupted by a white line.
> 
> fc


If I read the law correctly (and they all shoud be understandable, please!), you still have to stop:

http://www.dmv.ca.gov/pubs/vctop/d11/vc22450.htm



> ... shall stop at a limit line, if marked, otherwise before entering the crosswalk on the near side of the intersection ...


Ali


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## Mapei (Feb 3, 2004)

I don't know but I've been told that Woodside cops are notorious for busting folks to drive over the 25 mph speed limit. Go 26, and you could get stopped. When I drove through the town about three months ago, I punctiliously held my speed limit and stopped at every stop.. The cops had others stopped along the road, for I know not what. I felt like I was in a particularly wooded, bourgeois stretch of North Korea.


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## ShaneW (Sep 6, 2008)

Guys, I have learned to live with the Woodside cops since I have lived there for the past 4 years almost. Its pretty plain and simple really, DO NOT SPEED in your cars OR on your bicycles - I have seen them issue tkts to cyclists on numerous occasions for SPEEDING!

Make sure to come to a complete STOP at the stop signs, ESPECIALLY at Roberts Market 4 way stop and ESPECIALLY on the week-end, if you dont stop there on the weekend you are stupid and deserve to get a tkt I'm afraid. Ultimately, the sooner we start acting better and "behaving" ourselves out there the sooner the locals wont want to run us over in the cars and throw things at us. Cyclists tend to think they have more right to the road out there than everyone else and it causes lots of problems for people with lots of money.......resulting in increased enforcement out there.

If you are riding with friends and come to the stop alongside each other at the same time - you should be ok to leave at the same time. If you are in a group of 10 people, DO NOT think you can just take off together without getting a tkt, its illegal and you will get a tkt doing this.


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## rox (Jul 7, 2009)

write your representative and ask them to pass a stop-as-yield law like idaho has. this was attempted before but the media blew it out of proportion as usual. just like the crossing the double yellow when passing bill.


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## ratpick (Jul 31, 2008)

As I understand it, there are no Woodside cops - they use the county sheriff to enforce their laws (often rent-a-cop from Redwood City, I hear). I wonder if that changes how the laws are enforced? Normally, as I understand it, the revenue from tickets doesn't go to the local city (to discourage revenue generating stops) but these rent-a-cops are definitely incented to write as many tickets as possible.

There has been a bit of news in the paper about right-turn California stops by motorists - many of the new red-light cameras are catching these and they are getting $400+ fines in the mail. There's a push to reduce the fine to $217 although there's also opposition to that since those rolling right turns do cause a lot of accidents.

Fun times. I always stop, every time, at stop signs in Woodside. It would be hugely difficult to do this as a large group of cyclists, especially a hammer ride like the noon ride. As much as it sucks, they may have to route away from Woodside.


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## pisket (Dec 16, 2008)

Disclaimer: This post includes my venting about a deputy.



ratpick said:


> As I understand it, there are no Woodside cops - they use the county sheriff to enforce their laws


I was afraid of something like that. I received my only moving violation citations from the same sheriff deputy within 5 weeks in Los Altos (I was driving, not cycling).

I had stopped completely in both incidents and still got a ticket. The second one was unbelievable: my daughter and I had seen the deputy car working at the intersection; and I had decided to narrate my actions like "I am approaching the sign", "now I am stopping", and asking my daughter "what do you think? This is a complete stop, right?". And my daughter answering "yes". Can you believe that I still got a ticket for "blowing right through the sign!" (I think that deputy should be weeded out, but I will wait until my second citation is dismissed by the court.)

The first one was dismissed for unclear reasons: Either my proving that the deputy did not know the California Vehicle code, or his lack of response worked. He was considering the stop sign, not the "limit line" as he should. He simply did not "know" the law, writing tickets out there. Anyway...

He wasn't shy of enjoying some rudeness either by discounting what my daughter had just witnessed, and saying "how old is she? she can't drive, can she?" With an ugly smirk on his face too. And he told me "maybe you should practice your stops." Son of a deputy! My excellent driving record is longer than your age, you deputy, you...

Thank you all for listening,
Ali


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## parity (Feb 28, 2006)

Recently I found out its cheaper to speed then run a red light with one of those red light cameras. Because they can reduce your speed. I also read that they shorten the yellow to red light duration so they can justify the cost of the red light camera and generate more revenue. 

As for not stopping, I usually let someone else roll threw first then see what happens.  Or watch what the people coming in the opposite directions do. Since live in the area and I ride these roads all the time I know where they like to hide so its not hard to avoid tickets. However some day I would like to get a ticket for speeding while on my bike.


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## dwgranda (Sep 8, 2009)

Thanks for posting that. Seems to me like it's still not clear. In the case we're talking about there is no crosswalk. Yet the line below the one you quoted says:

If there is no limit line or crosswalk, the driver shall stop at the entrance to the intersecting roadway.

Seems like that means you still need to stop. But then why skimp on the paint? I can understand if there is no limit line (very common in suburbs) but why have one for cars if they expect us to stop? I'm going to check with the police, but as your previous post indicates, looks like they might not know either.


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## Mtn2RoadConvert (Aug 28, 2006)

I was on a recent ride From Saratoga out to the end of Canada Road and back. On our return we stopped at Robert's Market #1 and went over to the water spigot at the main parking lot to refill our water bottles. There were a group of 6 of us and we were waiting for another group of 4 to fill up. An older lady coming from the parking lot tells one of the guys in our group to get out of the way and that he was an idiot. There was room for her to get around and into the market, but she felt it necessary to voice her opinion. I'm sure this is the opinion of many non-cyclists whose town is overtaken by cyclists on the weekends. I'm sure concerned citizens have voiced their opposition to cyclists and law enforcement is doing what they can to discourage riders by making them strictly obey traffic laws.


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## ShaneW (Sep 6, 2008)

Mtn2RoadConvert said:


> An older lady coming from the parking lot tells one of the guys in our group to get out of the way and that he was an idiot. There was room for her to get around and into the market, but she felt it necessary to voice her opinion.


You should have "spilled" your water bottle on her! Dumb old bat!


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## ratpick (Jul 31, 2008)

We need a warning system (or is that illegal in this state?)

I've posted on Google Buzz before when I've seen the sheriff waiting at 280/Page Mill. Buzz seems good because you don't have to be "friends" and it's geolocated by default and it's easy to check before you ride and times out after a few days.

Same would be useful for MidPen to warn of radaring rangers, although cell coverage isn't so good usually.


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## SystemShock (Jun 14, 2008)

parity said:


> However some day I would like to get a ticket for speeding while on my bike.


I actually got one, years ago when I attended UC Davis. I was late for class, so I blew out of the dorms on one side of campus and went all the way across campus at warp speed.

As I was locking up my bike, a pretty winded-looking bike cop came up behind me and said, "I'm gonna cite you." But he kinda gasped it out. Apparently, he had been hiding in the bushes just outside the dorms, and had been chasing me the whole way, but couldn't catch up 'til I stopped.

Quite the ego massage... or maybe he just sucked as a cyclist. I'm gonna go with the former.  

Far as the big Woodside crackdown goes, I'm guessing it was pretty much inevitable and a direct response to some of the large hammerhead rides perhaps disregarding such pleasantries as traffic signs and/or holding up motorists by riding several abreast. 

Hate to say it, but in "towns with money", rich residents seem to have quite a LOT of pull with the local fuzz. A friend of mine told me he used to blow through a certain shortcut street in Los Altos while driving his morning commute... (if you call doing his claimed speed of 35 in a 25 zone "blowing through"), and this so incensed the local richie-richs that they'd nearly throw themselves in front his car while yelling and screaming. He didn't stop doing this though... just because they were overreacting so much.

After a few days of this, he's driving along to work one day, and lo and behold! there's a motorcyle cop posted right at the entrance to this street. So he didn't go down it that day. But he tells me he went down it the _next_ day... no cop then.  

So I'm sure we can look forward to many more months of this sort of thing, off and on, as Woodsiders hate cyclists... due partly to their own ignorance, and partly due to the actions of a minority of us. Yay.
.


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## heythorp (Feb 17, 2005)

They are not just cracking down on bikes. The amount of times I have been stopped in my car since moving here is more than the last 10 years of driving combined (not for speeding or stop signs). And lets not talk about the dog ticket. 

They are out enforcing stop signs for cars too. I see them every night. They park right at the corner of a 4 way stop sometimes behind one car or sometimes its right out in the open. Drivers around here don't even look they just go and they get whacked too. 

Common sense has left the american people and the government. Its been said here already. All states need a rolling yield law and cyclists need to obey the law more than they do. Too many meat heads out there giving a bad name. 

Drivers are guilty too but to be honest I have had really no issues with cars so far, but have have watched many cyclists be morons. 

On another note. I heard they are sitting at the top of the hill on Olive hill road too.


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## heythorp (Feb 17, 2005)

They are not just cracking down on bikes. The amount of times I have been stopped in my car since moving here is more than the last 10 years of driving combined (not for speeding or stop signs). And lets not talk about the dog ticket. 

They are out enforcing stop signs for cars too. I see them every night. They park right at the corner of a 4 way stop sometimes behind one car or sometimes its right out in the open. Drivers around here don't even look they just go and they get whacked too. 

Common sense has left the american people and the government. Its been said here already. All states need a rolling yield law and cyclists need to obey the law more than they do. Too many meat heads out there giving a bad name. 

Drivers are guilty too but to be honest I have had really no issues with cars so far, but have have watched many cyclists be morons. 

On another note. I heard they are sitting at the top of the hill on Olive hill road too.


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## Litespeed_96 (Dec 29, 2005)

*Here's what everyone in the group should do..*

Everyone should fight the ticket in court. There's no way those cops show up for all 40 of those court dates. Also, everyone should claim to have been in the very front of the group, the handful of riders that actually stopped at the stop sign. There is no way the officers would be able to identify anyone in the group in court.


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## dwgranda (Sep 8, 2009)

I called Menlo Park Police (EPA non-emergency is closed on Sunday) and they said you need to follow the traffic signal.


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