# A day rest before FTP?



## zone5

I'm not sure if a day rest before taking FTP would benefit from a more accurate result.


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## tom_h

I think a total rest day before a hard day, whether it's an FTP test or race, is counter-productive.

IME, better to cycle moderately about 1.5 hrs @ L2 pace, and include some "leg openers" with a few short L4 and L5 efforts. YMMV.


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## robdamanii

It really depends upon you. If you do well with some light training the day prior, then go for it. If you do well on complete rest, then go for that. 

The only real way to figure it out is try both ways.


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## woodys737

robdamanii said:


> It really depends upon you. If you do well with some light training the day prior, then go for it. If you do well on complete rest, then go for that.
> 
> The only real way to figure it out is try both ways.


And once you figure it out keep it consistent for future testing.


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## ZoSoSwiM

If you are too well rested prior to testing your numbers will be a little higher than you'll likely want. Which means your zones will be too high. Not a problem if you're always well rested but you're usually not well rested! You want to feel good and mostly rested for a test. Most importantly you want to recreate the same testing conditions every time so testing can be repeatable. All of this is just my opinion though.. in the end you need to do what works best for you.


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## zone5

I'm also nursing a cold and I get what you say about having the same conditions. So far, I've had two off days and will try to do my FTP this afternoon. It's also mainly afternoons when I can train because of family obligations and yes I'm already beat by the time I get saddle time.


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## spade2you

I probably wouldn't want to do a FTP with a cold.


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## Cableguy

tom_h said:


> I think a total rest day before a hard day, whether it's an FTP test or race, is counter-productive.
> 
> IME, better to cycle moderately about 1.5 hrs @ L2 pace, and include some "leg openers" with a few short L4 and L5 efforts. YMMV.


I've noticed the same thing for me


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## plx

Don't do FTP, SST is so much better
With not much rding i improved 10% this year.

See this if you don't know what it is, imo Sweet spot training is the key to archieve your genetic potencial in endurance sports.

Sweet Spot Training | FasCat Coaching :: Cycling Coach for all Cyclists


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## robdamanii

plx said:


> Don't do FTP, SST is so much better
> With not much rding i improved 10% this year.
> 
> See this if you don't know what it is, imo Sweet spot training is the key to archieve your genetic potencial in endurance sports.
> 
> Sweet Spot Training | FasCat Coaching :: Cycling Coach for all Cyclists


Really. So how do you plan ride at any intensity ABOVE sweet spot? Do you think that just appears without any training effort?


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## plx

Yes it does, i do mainly SST training and when i have no problem holding FTP in races

SST is the secret to ultimate performance, believe, it did wonders to me


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## robdamanii

plx said:


> Yes it does, i do mainly SST training and when i have no problem holding FTP in races
> 
> SST is the secret to ultimate performance, believe, it did wonders to me


While I'm a big fan of SST, doing nothing BUT it will lead you to becoming a one dimensional rider who will have their ass handed to them when the race hits zones 5, 6 and 7. Good luck repeating VO2 max level efforts repeatedly if you've never spent any time conditioning your body in zone 5.


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## plx

In theory it may seen that it would happen like that but in reality it doesn't work that way which is awesome


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## robdamanii

plx said:


> In theory it may seen that it would happen like that but in reality it doesn't work that way which is awesome


In reality, you're wrong, but thanks for playing.

From your own link:



> Given that you are in mid-season race shape, sweet spot training is more specific to your racing now than level/zone 2 was back in the winter. When was the last time you raced at a zone 2 pace? Wait don’t answer that! My point is that sweet spot training specifically addresses the *physiological requirements during the majority of your racing. It is not, however, a substitute for VO2max, anaerobic or neuromuscular intervals.* We’ll talk about that later on in the summer.* For now you are working on building an aerobic engine capable of comfortably handling the large majority of power demands in your races.* By doing so, you are setting yourself up well for when the smack goes down during the crucial make or break moments in a race.


Maybe you should thoroughly read ALL the information in that post before you start handing out incorrect training advice.


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## plx

dude have you tried doing it? the theory is nice but you have to put it to practice to see how it works


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## Cableguy

plx said:


> Yes it does, i do mainly SST training and when i have no problem holding FTP in races
> 
> SST is the secret to ultimate performance, believe, it did wonders to me


You mentioned you improved 10% this year with SST. How new are you to the sport? If this is your first year cycling, you could actually improve 100% depending on your starting point and how serious you are. Gains above 10% are very typical for someone in their first few years of training... in other words, you may have made similiar or even better gains doing just about anything at all on the bike.

Also, how long are you holding your FTP in races? If it's for extended periods (15+ minutes) you're probably not holding your actual FTP if it's so easy. 

And if you're *just* doing SST, you will do relatively poorly in everything but that... which includes accelerations, sustained high intensity efforts (including FTP), and recovery from such. So, basically pretty poor training for races... unless by "race" you perhaps mean a triathalon, where getting off the bike relatively fresh is ideal.


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## robdamanii

plx said:


> dude have you tried doing it? the theory is nice but you have to put it to practice to see how it works


Dude. I do it. I recommend my athletes do it.

I don't recommend it exclusively, eschewing all other training. To do so is naive and limiting. Apparently you're quite limited.


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## zone5

Going back to FTP. I got WKO+ and have no clue nor good guidance from TP on how to figure out FTP.

TP customer service just sent me links to articles that I've already read and pretty useless to newbies with a Powermeter an WKO+.

Thanks.


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## Cableguy

zone5 said:


> Going back to FTP. I got WKO+ and have no clue nor good guidance from TP on how to figure out FTP.
> 
> TP customer service just sent me links to articles that I've already read and pretty useless to newbies with a Powermeter an WKO+.


Generally speaking go as hard as you can for 20 minutes. Take your average power for your best 20 minute effort and multiply it by 95%, and that "should" translate to your FTP (aka the best 1 hour effort you could do). WKO should show you your best power for various durations of time. 

Be warned, if you rarely ever ride hard for an hour then your true FTP will probably much less than what is estimated. Riding hard for an hour is a lot more demanding than just 20 minutes, even if the 20 minutes is slightly harder. If your fit is off, you have bad form, or are not just used to the duration, it will definitely show after an hour. Your best bet is to actually practice riding hard for an hr and use that information.

There's also formulas to calculate your FTP from other durations. For 30 miuntes, I think you multiply by 98%. For 10 minutes I think it's about 90% (not very accurate).


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## zone5

Cableguy said:


> Generally speaking go as hard as you can for 20 minutes. Take your average power for your best 20 minute effort and multiply it by 95%, and that "should" translate to your FTP (aka the best 1 hour effort you could do). WKO should show you your best power for various durations of time.
> 
> Be warned, if you rarely ever ride hard for an hour then your true FTP will probably much less than what is estimated. Riding hard for an hour is a lot more demanding than just 20 minutes, even if the 20 minutes is slightly harder. If your fit is off, you have bad form, or are not just used to the duration, it will definitely show after an hour. Your best bet is to actually practice riding hard for an hr and use that information.
> 
> There's also formulas to calculate your FTP from other durations. For 30 miuntes, I think you multiply by 98%. For 10 minutes I think it's about 90% (not very accurate).


Been racing for two years and I can easily knock out an hour of TT pace on the trainer.

I however found that I can produce more power than what I can sustain for an hour off TT pace with 100+ cadence compared to an effort of 80 - 85 cadence at a harder gear.

I've been doing 30 min of 80-85 cadence.

I thought WKO+ will make life easier but so fat it's not for the novice.


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## woodys737

zone5 said:


> Going back to FTP. I got WKO+ and have no clue nor good guidance from TP on how to figure out FTP.
> 
> TP customer service just sent me links to articles that I've already read and pretty useless to newbies with a Powermeter an WKO+.
> 
> Thanks.





zone5 said:


> Been racing for two years and I can easily knock out an hour of TT pace on the trainer.
> 
> I however found that I can produce more power than what I can sustain for an hour off TT pace with 100+ cadence compared to an effort of 80 - 85 cadence at a harder gear.
> 
> I've been doing 30 min of 80-85 cadence.
> 
> I thought WKO+ will make life easier but so fat it's not for the novice.


If you are using WKO+ and can easily do an hour on the trainer or where ever, your 1 Hour NP will be your FTP. Again, it's really important to test the same way to be able to validate your training. Not sure what else you are looking for? Your comments regarding cadence make it sound like you are not using power correctly.


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## woodys737

plx said:


> Don't do FTP, SST is so much better
> With not much rding i improved 10% this year.
> 
> See this if you don't know what it is, imo Sweet spot training is the key to archieve your genetic potencial in endurance sports.
> 
> Sweet Spot Training | FasCat Coaching :: Cycling Coach for all Cyclists


Just to clarify for people new to power...you determine FTP to be able to do SST in an effort to raise FTP. So saying don't do FTP is a confusing statement to me and probably really confusing to those new to training with power.


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## zone5

woodys737 said:


> If you are using WKO+ and can easily do an hour on the trainer or where ever, your 1 Hour NP will be your FTP. Again, it's really important to test the same way to be able to validate your training. Not sure what else you are looking for? Your comments regarding cadence make it sound like you are not using power correctly.


Like I said, I'm a newbie at using a Powermeter and WKO+.


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## serious

ZoSoSwiM said:


> If you are too well rested prior to testing your numbers will be a little higher than you'll likely want. Which means your zones will be too high.


No! You want your FTP to be as high as possible, so you want to be rested. The ideal way is to approach it like a race. Tapper the week before and do a quick workout with a few hard efforts the day before. And remember that zones have ranges. The upper limits may be high on a less than an ideal day, but that is why there is a range within which you operate.


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## zone5

serious said:


> No! You want your FTP to be as high as possible, so you want to be rested. The ideal way is to approach it like a race. Tapper the week before and do a quick workout with a few hard efforts the day before. And remember that zones have ranges. The upper limits may be high on a less than an ideal day, but that is why there is a range within which you operate.


I agree. As I am almost midway through this book I'm reading, your comment is the only one that makes sense.

Even before I started reading the book, common sense tells me it should be like race day. I take two days off doing nothing before any race.

I finally did an hour TT on the trainer and manage a low 216 FTP. I got to calculate my power zones the other day and as soon as I get my bike back, I'll be testing for my various levels.


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## kbiker3111

azizbd said:


> I think so.you should take a proper rest before ftp


Is azizbd going to try to sell us knock off handbags? Fake Nikes? Free pron? 

I've riveted to find out.


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## plx

I bet my FTP increased more than any of your athletes.
I've tried basically all the ways there are. 
FTP intervals are good but not as good as SST and my results show that.
In 2011 i did a lot of FTP work and my FTP went from 235 watts to 260 watts in 6 months
The next year in the same period instead of doing FTP i tried SST, guess what happened.
FTP went from 250 to 280 watts, it may not seem like a much bigger improvement but you have to take into account the fact that it gets exponentially harder to improve.


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## Cableguy

plx said:


> I bet my FTP increased more than any of your athletes.
> I've tried basically all the ways there are.
> FTP intervals are good but not as good as SST and my results show that.
> In 2011 i did a lot of FTP work and my FTP went from 235 watts to 260 watts in 6 months
> The next year in the same period instead of doing FTP i tried SST, guess what happened.
> FTP went from 250 to 280 watts, it may not seem like a much bigger improvement but you have to take into account the fact that it gets exponentially harder to improve.


What % of your estimated FTP were you doing your SST intervals at, were you training any more (time wise) this year compared to last year, and how many hours of SST do you try to do each week?


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## robdamanii

plx said:


> I bet my FTP increased more than any of your athletes.
> I've tried basically all the ways there are.
> FTP intervals are good but not as good as SST and my results show that.
> In 2011 i did a lot of FTP work and my FTP went from 235 watts to 260 watts in 6 months
> The next year in the same period instead of doing FTP i tried SST, guess what happened.
> FTP went from 250 to 280 watts, it may not seem like a much bigger improvement but you have to take into account the fact that it gets exponentially harder to improve.


Here we go again.

Not everyone responds to the same training methods. You don't seem to understand that.

FYI, I raised my FTP by 65 watts by doing a significantly larger portion of high intensity work than I usually do. Does that mean it's the only way? 

No.

Stop claiming SST is better than everything else.


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## plx

Cableguy said:


> You mentioned you improved 10% this year with SST. How new are you to the sport? If this is your first year cycling, you could actually improve 100% depending on your starting point and how serious you are. Gains above 10% are very typical for someone in their first few years of training... in other words, you may have made similiar or even better gains doing just about anything at all on the bike.
> 
> Also, how long are you holding your FTP in races? If it's for extended periods (15+ minutes) you're probably not holding your actual FTP if it's so easy.
> 
> And if you're *just* doing SST, you will do relatively poorly in everything but that... which includes accelerations, sustained high intensity efforts (including FTP), and recovery from such. So, basically pretty poor training for races... unless by "race" you perhaps mean a triathalon, where getting off the bike relatively fresh is ideal.


If i improved 10% i would win the Tdf with one leg.
I'am at 295watts right now and my weight is 60kg, i can hold it for 50 minutes but it's nothing here i get my ass kicked all the time


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## Cableguy

plx said:


> If i improved 10% i would win the Tdf with one leg.
> I'am at 295watts right now and my weight is 60kg, i can hold it for 50 minutes but it's nothing here i get my ass kicked all the time


Yeah... just to clarify, in your hypothetical situation with *both* legs you would still lose the TdF... *very* convincingly. If you even finished the damn thing it would be a miracle.


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