# Newbie... Questions, Concerns, BikesDirect, etc



## baughb (Aug 12, 2011)

Oh hey everyone! Figured I would stop lurking and post (even though I just registered yesterday). Had to ***** out my obligatory five posts so I could post this and get called a Shill 

I guess a little about myself first. I'm 26, 5'10, fairly fit. I was a runner but have stopped recently. I am also a lifer hockey player, so no slouch when it comes to exercising. I live in Seattle and would like to get into biking for some commuting, exercising and another mode of transportation.

So, here I am. I'm new to the biking community. I have yet to purchase a bike but have been riding a borrowed, un-fitting bike from a friend. I get sore, it sucks, the brakes squeak, it is kind of wobbly, etc etc. So, I've decided that I should just purchase a bike! Yaay!

I searched around, been browsing CL and the internets, came across this site with a million posts and as I said, I've been reading. I learned (and they are pretty obvious) that there are some shills for BikesDirect on here. I've also seen plenty of the "Support LBS!" guys, and some of the high post count members supporting BD also.

'll start off saying that I'd like my budget around $500-$600. I know this is 'low' in a lot of your eyes, and I respect that. I have purchased $700 hockey skates and broken $300 hockey sticks more times than I care to count, so I understand the 'you get what you pay for statement'. However, I also know that when I started hockey, I didn't start with these things. My parents would have killed me if they spent $2500 on gear then to find out that I didn't like the sport. I do however understand the 'fit' thing. I have extra wide feet and weird ankle bones and learned the hard way that not all hockey skates are created equal.

I see there are really three options for buying a bike.

1) Used - Craigslist
2) New from LBS
3) BikesDirect

I'm not a huge fan of buying used. I get that there is a lot of stuff there, especially in Seattle. However, I don't know bikes well enough and I like shiney new things! 

On the budget thing, I don't see the buying from an LBS and getting something 'new' at this price point.

So, I am leaning towards BikesDirect. I plan on going and getting fitted before hand. I've also seen that some bikes share geometry with other brands (Gravity and Giant Defy) and so I'll probably try and ride a Giant before buying a Gravity if I go that route. But! Enough with my rambling, I guess my questions are as follows:

1) I will probably be doing a bit of shifting. There are hills ALL over there place here (for those of you who know Seattle, I live in Queen Anne). Will I see a huge benefit in going with something like a 105 group? Or can I 'get by' with Sora/Microshift stuff

2) There are also lots of crappy roads in Seattle. Will a carbon fork make a difference for this?

3) What are my resale options with something like a Gravity/Dawes? I've read mixed things on this. It seems like there is a somewhat 'elitist' feeling at times. Not that I really care, but I just want to know.

4) Based on those things (Hills, maybe 150-200 miles a month, sometimes more, moretimes less) which of these, depending on what I find FITS best, should I go with? (to young for posting links... all from BD.

Gravity Liberty 1 $399

Mercier Galaxy AL $399

Dawes Lightning 1500 - $495

Gravity Liberty 2 $499

Dawes Lightning 2300 $599


5) Are there other bikes with similar geo to the other bikes listed? I know the Giant Defy == Gravity. Just wondering if there are others that I can try before buying.

My plan is to buy, assemble myself (I have mechanical ability) and take to a LBS to have tuned after. 

Any other thoughts/suggestions/random bashing/name calling appreciated!


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## Peanya (Jun 12, 2008)

BD isn't bad at all. The deals are fair, but as good as or better deals are actually found at other places too. 
I see nothing wrong with buying a less expensive started bike. If you love riding, you'll spend a lot more down the road. If you don't take to it, then you're not out as much money. 
Of the ones you've listed, I'd go for the Liberty 2 or the Lightning 2300. They're both very similar (in reality), just depends on whether you want 3 rings up front or 2.


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## PJ352 (Dec 5, 2007)

My advice is to get a standard LBS fitting (about $50) _before_ thinking about specific bikes, because the results of that fitting may discount some of the bikes you've listed. For example, a couple of models have sizing gaps of 4 cm's (54cm's to 58cm's) which is huge in the bike world and if your LBS sizes you to geo consistent with a 56, those models aren't going to fit very well.

On the topic of sizing... Once you get sized/ fitted, note the year, make, model and frame size of the test bike. Use that data to compare its geo with geo of bikes of interest. The closer the geo numbers the closer fit will be to the test bike. Note that I'm saying geo numbers, not frame size, because there are no standards for determining those frame sizes, so a 56 Giant might not be a 56 Gravity, etc.

On the new/ used topic, given your budget, IMO you should reconsider used. You'll get the benefit of test riding the bike before commiting to the purchase and many sellers will agree to have it checked over by an LBS, so you'll have some help assessing its mechanical state. 

Re: your comments on shifting alot and a 105 group, (again) given your price range I don't see a 105 equipped bike as an option unless it's older, which kind of negates the reason to opt for it, because as shifters see more use, they're at a higher risk to fail and aren't cheap to replace. Also, older 105 is 9 speed, so you're not getting the advantge of 10 speed. If you're going to be riding in hilly terrain, consider that and focus on either compact or triple cranksets. To a point, you can also change to larger cogs at the rear. 

Lastly, I suggest refraining from using LBS's inventory to test ride bike you think are similar to online offerings. IMO it's simply not cool to take someone's time to set you up on a bike, have you test ride it, then order from BD (or similar).


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## GFish (Apr 4, 2011)

First, I'm a fan of BD and purchased a bike from them this spring. But after considering the bikes you picked and looking at the specs, I believe for a few more dollars, you can find a similar equipped bike at your LBS. 

My son lives in Seattle and purchased an entry level Trek in June for apx. $600 with similar specs to the BD bikes. And now that 2012 bikes are showing up, shops are starting to discount the 2011 bikes. 

Plus the big advantage of buying local is you'll always have a shop to go to with questions and bike help. And they'll understand what gearing you'll need for those nasty hills. Here's an example of what I would look for in gearing; a triple with a 50-39-30 and 11-28 rear cogs or a compact double in 50-34 with 11-32 rear cogs. Even for people in good shape, those hills can deter anyone new to riding and the right gearing can really help. 

You mentioned re-sale also. I believe most people have more confidence buying name brand. So if you saw a 2011 Dawes and a 2011 Specialized at the same asking price of $400, which bike would you have more confidence in buying? 

You have some great bike shops up there, start there first and see if they can help. I'll bet you'll be surprised how close they can come to BD on an entry level bike. 

good luck...


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## dgeesaman (Jun 9, 2010)

A bike frame is like a hockey skate: spending more helps (to a point) and fit is everything. So are cycling shoes, when you get to that. Until you know exactly what fits you, it's a big risk to buy a bike online. That's why you will see experienced riders buying from BD: they know the exact geometry they want and BD gives you a lot of bike for the money. I believe that with bikes up to about $2k, you get more as you spend more. The various brands are comparable in this price range.

Shimano 105 components are a nice upgrade because they are well made and compatible with the Ultegra and Dura-Ace lines. But I don't think that will fit in your budget, which doesn't matter much. Tiagra / Sora function just fine.

I agree with the others on trying LBS. Some carry used bikes and they understand the budget thing. Just go when they are not busy and be honest about your interest level.


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## AndrwSwitch (May 28, 2009)

OP - you're forgetting a couple of options.

1b) used from Recycled Cycles. (Most likely to have some available at this time of year.)
1c) used from Second Ascent. (Usually a small used selection, better mechanics and service.)
1d) used from Play It Again Sports. (Just know it exists and has used bikes.)
1e) used from 20/20 Cycles (Ditto.)
1f) used from that crazy dude on Capitol Hill. (At least he talked me out of buying a freewheel I didn't need.)

2b) new from Performance. At least you get a chance to try bikes there. I haven't been impressed by their knowledge, though.
2c) at least visit Counterbalance Bicycles. The guys at the Burke location have always been knowledgeable and helpful; I hear prices are more competitive at the Queen Anne location.

In answer to your other questions... Sora is fine if you're not competing. I suspect the wear life is not as good as 105. But bikes get stolen here (I'm in Seattle too - I actually just rode by your neighborhood, via the Ship Canal trail) quite a lot. Unless you have a very safe place to keep your bike at both ends of your commute and never intend to use it to run errands, you don't want to spend a lot or have a high resale value. I actually ride a $100 bike for errands and commuting.

A carbon fork isn't a suspension fork. I think I notice a slight difference in ride feel between my nice bike, which does have a carbon fork, and my commuter, which has a steel fork. But it's really not a big difference, and nothing compared to 5 psi more or less in your front tire. If you're worried about the streets here, larger tires are nice. I'm pretty happy with 23mm tires, but I'm not a big person, and my real riding passion is mountain biking. I realize that Seattleites and RBR posters are not all 150 lb racer-wannabes who ride with loose joints. A lot of Seattleites are convinced they need a whole lot more from their bikes to ride here than they do. IMHO, suspension is overkill.


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## chocostove (Jan 31, 2007)

As another Seattlite, I can say also try Ridebikes on 60th and Ravenna. The owner is pretty cool, and willing to work with people a lot of the time. The Seattle CL is two things: crap, and people who actually have nice stuff that is reasonably priced.... if you're in the market for 6-900 dollar mid to high end used bikes. otherwise it's always garbage when I look.

Have you thought about the torkker interurban? It's entry level, runs about 550, easy to get local and makes a good commuter. It's sora grade, but that's not horrible. And when it wears out but something nice. As for fittings, I haven't seen anything less than $100 bucks around here....


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## baughb (Aug 12, 2011)

Thanks for the advice. I've been looking at craigslist and everything and will probably try to get to some LBS's this week/weekend.


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## baughb (Aug 12, 2011)

And thanks a TON for the shop recommendations.

The whole theft thing is somewhat of a worry. I'm not too concerned on the commute side of things, but the 'running errands'/grabbing dinner with friends thing is kind of a thought. 

Also, On the fitting thing, I was wondering that too. I've seen it as $100 pretty much everywhere. Where is this magical $50 fitting happening?


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## PJ352 (Dec 5, 2007)

baughb said:


> And thanks a TON for the shop recommendations.
> 
> The whole theft thing is somewhat of a worry. I'm not too concerned on the commute side of things, but the 'running errands'/grabbing dinner with friends thing is kind of a thought.
> 
> Also, On the fitting thing, I was wondering that too. I've seen it as $100 pretty much everywhere. *Where is this magical $50 fitting happening?*


Well, I did qualify that with '_about_ $50'.  

Prices vary by region, and seeing as I'm about 3k miles from you, I'll leave it to other members more local to you to answer for your area. 

But also, keep in mind that there are different levels of fittings, with a basic (or standard) fitting going for about $50 in my area. It's basically a fitting you'd get when purchasing a bike from an LBS (except then it's usually included). From there, there are several fit systems and levels to choose from, so prices can range from a low of $100 to ~$350, depending on a number of factors. Being new to cycling and because fit evolves over time, all you'll need at this juncture is a standard fitting.

From your comment re: visiting LBS's I don't know if you've decided on purchasing from them or simply opting for a fitting. If it's just a fitting, take care to document the test bike (year, make, model, frame size) and use the geo chart as a baseline to compare against bikes of interest. If you have any questions on the numbers, update your thread and we'll assist.


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## Aaron McDevitt (Aug 23, 2011)

I've got a few opinions.

It seems many people here are highly experienced riders and go to extremes about "fit". I've been riding only 3 years (about 10,000 miles) but I still don't see the big deal about fit. Maybe I just adjust better than most people though. Now SIZE is pretty important. Extremely. I fit a few centimeters difference in size with seat adjustments. As for KOPS, I say it's a load of s*** unless your an experienced racer, maybe (but I am less experienced, so I must be wrong). The phisics of power doesn't change with knee/pedal position (if the seat is adjusted accordingly), so it's all about how cofortable you feel riding. You can test ride a bike from a shop OR from Craigslist just fine.

Some people say if you buy from a shop you can go back there and get advice etc. later on. I don't know what shops they go to, but the shop in my hometown was friendly toward everyone, not just people who bought a bike from them. I guess it depends on the shop, but I wouldn't trust any shop that won't help you out with a bit of free advice.

I personally like Craigslist. I've never bought from a shop. I've gotten some great deals on Craigslist.

I would also say getting a nice fast, light, bike in good condition off craigslist for less money is better for a new rider, as long as you are semi-mechanically inclined. Anyway, if you find you are really picky later on, you can always switch out parts or buy another bike.


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## ezrida (Aug 20, 2011)

*used bike from cl*

check out this bike on CL, looks like a good bike and in your price range. Probably will be easy to resell and most of your $ back. Hmmm, I think i would preferred to get a specialized than getting any of those other bikes you've mentioned. imho

I guess RBR won't let me post the link for you but just do a search on seatle CL for this 
2008 SPECIALIZED - $600 (SMOKEY POINT MARYSVILLE)


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## baughb (Aug 12, 2011)

I ended up buying a 2007 Cannondale RAAD 8. It's the 'elite' with full 105 group. I spent a little more than I wanted ($700), but I feel like the resale on it will be good and I don't have to worry about upgrading to anything for a while except all Carbon if I want to go that route.

Pics later today after my first ride!


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## ezrida (Aug 20, 2011)

sounds like a nice bike


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## heybrady (Jul 3, 2011)

Nice bike. I bought an 07 CAAD 8-2 (tiagra) in new condition for $500 a couple months back off CL in Ohio. I think you will be happy with it, especially the 105 instead of Sora you would have had on a new entry level bike. 

Go ride!


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## baughb (Aug 12, 2011)

Finally got a ride in yesterday. About 10 miles. Still getting used to clip-ins but man, riding a nice bike is a WHOLE new world. It is fun as hell! Commuted to work today also (5 miles). Bike probably needs a little tune and I will take it in to get a proper fitting this weekend hopefully as I can tell that I am not to my full 'proper' riding stance yet. All in all though, I love it. 

Next step is to get some fenders I think (looking at CRUD?) as the bike came with SPD's and lights.


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