# Fake Gios on EBay



## Cinelli 82220 (Dec 2, 2010)

http://cgi.ebay.com/Gios-torino-Cus...897?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item3a64efb3c9

I hope the bidders will see this post, it's a shame they are being scammed.
This isn't even remotely similar to a Gios. The decals are bogus, the lugs are wrong, the BB is wrong...this kind of fraud shouldn't be allowed. If you complain about it to EBay, nothing happens. If you tell the seller they get defensive and spout nonsense to justify it.
Gios and Colnago are the two most common frauds on EBay, it's too easy to get decals for "restorations". More like restoring a worthless piece of junk into a Gios or Colnago!
Cinelli is a close third, people think that because a bike has a Cinelli bottom bracket shell it must be a Cinelli. Not so!
Even worse is when people save the pics and use them to argue about what is and isn't a particular make of frame.


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## High Gear (Mar 9, 2002)

You are right. I am no Gios aficionado, but after looking the frame over and compairing it to others on the web, I do not see anything other than the paint and decals that resemble a real one. Fork and lugs are all wrong. Good catch!

I sent a note to him through ebay. I don't think he is trying to pull one over. This is his response.

i only know that fork is cinelli speciale corsa .
i'm not a specialist from gios.
i 've got this frame from club.


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## Cinelli 82220 (Dec 2, 2010)

I admire your tolerance, I've had some nasty exchanges via EBay over this sort of thing. 
Sometimes it is ignorance but there are a lot of shysters there.
The new rage seems to be bogus pantographing. For the record, Gios never pantographed shift or brake levers, but they sure pop up a lot on the Bay. And some of the bogus Colnago stuff is so poorly done it's insulting to Uncle Ernie. Casanova in Belgium and lelo (?) from Italy crank out lots of this stuff.
If they were upfront and called it "replica" I would have no issue.


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## boneman (Nov 26, 2001)

*Hilarious*

It's even got bosses for two sets of water bottle cages....on a track bike


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## jchang (Feb 7, 2009)

any one know any information on Gios Lite Dedaccia tubing? what year are they produced. There is a frame for sale on ebay which I am consider bidding.


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## FatTireFred (Jan 31, 2005)

you can report those kinds of things (fake, fraud, not authentic, etc) to ebay


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## tarwheel2 (Jul 7, 2005)

I don't understand -- why go to the trouble of conterfeiting a Gios frame? It's not like they are so rare or valuable or anything. I owned a Gios for several years and sold the frame/fork (in nearly spotless condition) for $350. It seems like it would cost several hundred bucks to repaint a frame and add fake Gios stickers, hardly worth the trouble and cost, IMHO.


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## dnalsaam (Dec 6, 2004)

Cinelli 82220 said:


> I admire your tolerance, I've had some nasty exchanges via EBay over this sort of thing.
> Sometimes it is ignorance but there are a lot of shysters there.
> The new rage seems to be bogus pantographing. For the record, Gios never pantographed shift or brake levers, but they sure pop up a lot on the Bay. And some of the bogus Colnago stuff is so poorly done it's insulting to Uncle Ernie. Casanova in Belgium and lelo (?) from Italy crank out lots of this stuff.
> If they were upfront and called it "replica" I would have no issue.


Indignant posts like this about pantographing always make me laugh as they show the absolute total lack of knowledge of the poster. 

Apart from the exceedingly rare exception (Somec, Rauler and perhaps a couple others come to mind), none of the pantographing work was done by the frame-builders themselves. Colnago never did any pantographing in house, likewise Gios never did any pantographing themselves either. They commissioned some of the work themselves, but a far greater portion was done on speculation by outsiders. Had you been to trade shows in the 70's and 80's you would have seen a few people offering a selection of pantographed parts. I have a good friend in Italy who was just such a supplier of pantographed parts back in the day. He said that he would always try to sell the parts to the frame-builder directly as that would get the largest orders, but that more often than not he would supply parts on as-needed basis directly to shops. Sometimes, the frame-builder would suggest a preferred supplier of parts, but other times the shop or consumer would simply look around for somebody who was capable of doing the work. There was little thought given to protection of trademarks back then.

Today, like back in the day, the quality of the work varies between one person and another. Some pantographing work is very good, other stuff is but a poor imitation of what would have been delivered back in the day. This is in part because it no longer truly pantography work, but is more often than not done with a CNC machine which works differently than a pantography machine and has different possibilities and limitations.

As regards Gios pantographed brake levers and shift levers, back when I worked for one of the German importers of Gios, I was given some by Alfredo Gios while at the Cologne trade show in the late 80's. So, not only did they exist, they were even available directly from Gios themselves. They were not generally included in the the Styrofoam frame boxes, but when a complete bike was picked up in Settimo Torinese, they could be had.

Lastly, when dealing with Gios, it is always exceedingly difficult to determine ultimate originality insofar as even between the Gios brothers they are not able to agree upon what is original.

Alfredo Gios' website: http://www.gios.it/
Aldo Gios' website: http://www.giostorino.it/

Back when I dealt with them in the 80's and 90's, Alfredo was solely in charge of the running of the company, with Aldo handling some production related duties. Now from their websites it would seem that they both claim to be the legitimate keeper of the Gios reputation.


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## Cinelli 82220 (Dec 2, 2010)

I stand corrected!
I'm sure I saw a pic of a panto machine in the Colnago shop somewhere, I think the cyclomondo guy from Australia had it on his site. I know most stuff was contracted out. 
I am amazed about the Gios stuff, seriously. I have never seen pics of them in any of the several Euro magazines I read at the time, nor have I seen them since in any web photo. Pardon my scepticism. I do remember seeing Didi Thurau in the 78 Giro with a nicely cutout pair of brake calipers filled with red paint, but his levers were regular Super Record. 
I had a 1978 frame-in-a-box with the chainring, stem, post, jersey, shorts, cap and bottle. And a complete 1976 bike with the same panto bits and the much nicer blue/white Gios jersey. I had price lists from Gios from that era and they never included shifters or brake levers.


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## dnalsaam (Dec 6, 2004)

Cinelli 82220 said:


> I stand corrected!
> I'm sure I saw a pic of a panto machine in the Colnago shop somewhere, I think the cyclomondo guy from Australia had it on his site. I know most stuff was contracted out.
> I am amazed about the Gios stuff, seriously. I have never seen pics of them in any of the several Euro magazines I read at the time, nor have I seen them since in any web photo. Pardon my scepticism. I do remember seeing Didi Thurau in the 78 Giro with a nicely cutout pair of brake calipers filled with red paint, but his levers were regular Super Record.
> I had a 1978 frame-in-a-box with the chainring, stem, post, jersey, shorts, cap and bottle. And a complete 1976 bike with the same panto bits and the much nicer blue/white Gios jersey. I had price lists from Gios from that era and they never included shifters or brake levers.


I would like to clarify that Alfredo gave me a set of shift levers only, not brake levers. Since we are speaking of over 20 years ago, I cannot be sure whether there were brake levers or not, but I do believe they did exist as well.

As far as panto work goes, check out the photo labelled stems by Oroboyz here: http://www.flickr.com/photos/oroboyz/5386077044/in/set-72157625774482931 This is precisely how panto stems and other components were generally marketed in the 70's. There weren't that many that had figured out the brand marketing value.


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## High Gear (Mar 9, 2002)

dnalsaam said:


> I would like to clarify that Alfredo gave me a set of shift levers only, not brake levers. Since we are speaking of over 20 years ago, I cannot be sure whether there were brake levers or not, but I do believe they did exist as well.
> 
> As far as panto work goes, check out the photo labelled stems by Oroboyz here: http://www.flickr.com/photos/oroboyz/5386077044/in/set-72157625774482931 This is precisely how panto stems and other components were generally marketed in the 70's. There weren't that many that had figured out the brand marketing value.


Man! I really enjoyed seeing the other photos from the '76 International bike show oroboys has up on flicker.


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## depoca (Jun 14, 2011)

Thanks Cinelli 82220 for your insight in this. It's also sad that it's another scam from eastern Europe. This is why many of those uctions don't go as high, lack of trust.

I have a friend who likes Gios, and we might check the forum before buying one.


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