# Stans Alpha 340 Tyre problems ????



## giosblue (Aug 2, 2009)

Well, initial excitement has turned to disappointment .

I'm having problems with the tyres

Story so far. Wheels came without rim tape, they sent me some two days later.
It was the cloth type and was too wide, I couldn't get the bead to seat because the rim tape was too wide and it moved up this inside of the bead. It was even showing outside the tyre in places. I changed this for some narrower plastic type, this fitted the rim perfectly. However this also slides about when fitting the tyre and ends up covering the tyre bead in places.

I'm using these with tubes and I'm finding it impossible to get the rim tape to stay put.
I could glue it in, but I would rather not if I can avoid it.
Any help would be very much appreciated as I'm close to sending them back.

Do Stans make a special tape for these rims?


Iv''e just had a though, how about using a couple of layers of insulation tape???


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## Zen Cyclery (Mar 10, 2009)

Well, you could always just use the Stans tubeless tape. You could simply run that with tubes, and that shouldn't slip around on the rim too much.


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## giosblue (Aug 2, 2009)

Zen Cyclery said:


> Well, you could always just use the Stans tubeless tape. You could simply run that with tubes, and that shouldn't slip around on the rim too much.



Thanks for that, if all else fails I'll get some. It looks like there are two types. One to cover the spoke hole and something else that goes over that.

The spoke hole tape is only 9.5 mm wide which would be perfect. Is this sticky?


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## ergott (Feb 26, 2006)

Get 21mm Stan's yellow tape. That's the stuff for those rims.


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## giosblue (Aug 2, 2009)

ergott said:


> Get 21mm Stan's yellow tape. That's the stuff for those rims.



Yes I've seen that, but it's too wide, the plastic stuff I'm using is about 12mm wide and that's a tad wide.

I've just covered the rim tape with insulation tape for the moment. this seems to have solved the problem for now..

Another thing about these rims in the tyre bead. It really does give you a wider profile with the tyre. with any of my other rims I can just about get a 25 tyre on the back, with these rims it rubs. Even a 23 is close, very close.

Apart from the rim tape problem they seem like a decent set of wheels.
No problem changing the tyres, ( other than the rim tape) which is plus.


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## valleycyclist (Nov 1, 2009)

As mentioned previously, you need the 21mm yellow tape. It isn't too wide if it is properly installed. You can look at a video on their website to see the proper installation technique. Remember to pull the tape as you install it.

I have not come across anything else that works well on those rims, although I'm sure there are other rim tape options. Nylon rim strips do not fit tightly, and will move around. An adhesive rim tape such as Velox is too thick (I tried the 17mm wide tape, perhaps a narrower one will work).


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## ergott (Feb 26, 2006)

You don't want to just cover the spoke holes. The tape will eventually shift. 

ZTR Yellow Rim Tape - YouTube

This rim has the 21mm tape installed.


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## giosblue (Aug 2, 2009)

ergott said:


> You don't want to just cover the spoke holes. The tape will eventually shift.
> 
> ZTR Yellow Rim Tape - YouTube
> 
> This rim has the 21mm tape installed.



Thanks I've just seen the video and I've ordered some.
I think that should sort it. No mention of this when I bought the wheels though.

There is no way regular rim tape will work with these wheels.


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## bikerjulio (Jan 19, 2010)

Wow. A lot of really bad advice here. From pro wheelbuilders yet.

These are road rims. They are narrower than MTB rims.

They use 12mm Stan's tape.

I know. I have them. Anything wider will potentially interfere with the bead seating. The tape also needs to be sticky enough so that it does not move during tire installation.


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## Zen Cyclery (Mar 10, 2009)

bikerjulio said:


> Wow. A lot of really bad advice here. From pro wheelbuilders yet.
> 
> These are road rims. They are narrower than MTB rims.
> 
> ...


Um, no. 

You may want to do your homework. 

21mm tape is what Stans recommends for the 340. Not 12mm.


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## bikerjulio (Jan 19, 2010)

I did my homework and I'm using them.

The Stan's site is farked when it comes to running tubed tires. Put together by corgis.

It's deadly for a regular tire on these rims to have anything interfering on the bead bed. The whole rim is only 17mm inside. How the f is a 21 mm wide strip going to work? The 12mm tape perfectly covers the curved section without going over the shoulder and interfering with the bead.


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## dlhillius (Mar 21, 2011)

I used 13mm Velox in both my set's of Stans. Hundreds of miles and have never had an issue.


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## giosblue (Aug 2, 2009)

bikerjulio said:


> I did my homework and I'm using them.
> 
> The Stan's site is farked when it comes to running tubed tires. Put together by corgis.
> 
> It's deadly for a regular tire on these rims to have anything interfering on the bead bed. The whole rim is only 17mm inside. How the f is a 21 mm wide strip going to work? The 12mm tape perfectly covers the curved section without going over the shoulder and interfering with the bead.


The Stans website does say use 21mm tape, however I have ordered the Stans 12mm.
Like you say bikerjulio, its too risky having the tape anywhere near the tyre bead.
And in any case I'm using tubed tyres so all I need to do is cover the spoke holes..
If the tape stay put I'm sorted.
I managed to get the tyres on and I'll be having a short ride on them later.


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## bikerjulio (Jan 19, 2010)

I suspect a dyslexic corgi typing "21" when he meant to type "12".

The Stan's site has almost zero info on running tubed tires. But it just so happens that 12mm tape is the perfect fit.

I have now successfully been running - Stan's 12mm tape, Conti Supersonic tubes (50g) and PR3's for several months on my Stans Alpha wheels. A very light combo for a near-clyde btw that's holding up well.

see my build thread here Weight Weenies • View topic - Building budget WW clyde clinchers - sub 1,350g, sub $400.


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## ergott (Feb 26, 2006)

I have done builds for tubeless and went with their recommendation. Did you contact them and they told you to use 12mm tape for tube/tire setups?

From their site:

Description 

Can be used with Stan's ZTR rims to make them air tight or used as a light weight rim tape in any rim.

(1) 10 yard roll will tape (5) 26" rims, (4) 29" rims or (2) road clincher rims.

21mm width fits:

ZTR Olympic
ZTR 355
ZTR Alpine
ZTR Crest
ZTR Alpha 340
Most road clincher rims


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## bikerjulio (Jan 19, 2010)

ergott said:


> I have done builds for tubeless and went with their recommendation. Did you contact them and they told you to use 12mm tape for tube/tire setups?
> 
> From their site:
> 
> ...


I'm only an amateur in all this. I know that regular road rims use 17-18mm tape. Anything wider is going to interfere with the bead socket and IMHO be an accident waiting to happen. So 21mm tape on a conventional road rim sounds like a bad idea to me.

In my first trys with Stan's Alphas and their unusual shape, I used 17mm velox tape and it was impossible to get the bead on the PR's to seat properly. The tire would just blow off the rim because some tape would always be in the bead area. 12mm tape just fits in the semi-circular rim bed without poking up into the bead socket area. 

I think Stan's could improve their site wrt advice on road and tubed applications of their products.


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## Mdeth1313 (Nov 1, 2001)

veloplugs?


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## ergott (Feb 26, 2006)

One layer of yellow tape is 0.15mm thick. One layer of Velox is 0.55mm thick. A tubeless tire bead is thicker than a standard clincher bead (I've worked with the Hutchinson Intense and Fusions). The rim was designed for that bead to fit with two layers of tape (still only .3mm thick and less than Velox). A standard clincher bead and one layer (one one layer is required if you use tubes) shouldn't have any interference problems.

I don't have experience with too many different combinations of tires and rim strips. I can give a call to Stan's on Monday to clarify.


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## ergott (Feb 26, 2006)

Mdeth1313 said:


> veloplugs?


The Veloplugs do not fit the tight curve of the Alpha spoke bed.


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## rruff (Feb 28, 2006)

giosblue said:


> The Stans website does say use 21mm tape, however I have ordered the Stans 12mm.


They recommend 21mm tape for tubeless. 2 layers. It is useful to get the rim joint sealed and to facilitate tire inflation. I too think it is a bit too wide though, and do not like the tape coming up the sidewall. But then again I haven't heard of anyone having an issue.

For tubes, I use 2 layers of 12mm tape... staggered a bit so one edge goes over the lip and the other hits the edge of the spoke hole.


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## ergott (Feb 26, 2006)

A 19mm tape would indeed be a perfect fit. The rim is 17mm wide between the hook lips. It's more like 19mm wide from edge to edge inside.

Velocity has their own Velotape, but I do not know how wide that tape is. I'll have to call.


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## giosblue (Aug 2, 2009)

I'm not sure which is correct 21mm or 12mm. I'm sticking with 12mm.

Stans make a 12mm so it must be good for something.

I wish I had known this before though, I spent ages messing about trying to get the tyres to fit.


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## bikerjulio (Jan 19, 2010)

If someone want to send me a roll of 21mm Stan's tape for free, I'll be happy to try it with my tube/tire combo. And if it works OK I'll take it all back. Meanwhile I'm left thinking that since 12mm works fine, why use anything else?


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## kbiker3111 (Nov 7, 2006)

bikerjulio said:


> I'm only an amateur in all this. I know that regular road rims use 17-18mm tape. Anything wider is going to interfere with the bead socket and IMHO be an accident waiting to happen. So 21mm tape on a conventional road rim sounds like a bad idea to me.
> 
> In my first trys with Stan's Alphas and their unusual shape, I used 17mm velox tape and it was impossible to get the bead on the PR's to seat properly. The tire would just blow off the rim because some tape would always be in the bead area. 12mm tape just fits in the semi-circular rim bed without poking up into the bead socket area.
> 
> I think Stan's could improve their site wrt advice on road and tubed applications of their products.


I have always run 21 mm tape on my Alpha 340s without a problem, both tubed and tubeless. The stans yellow tape is considerably thinner than velox. You could run the 12mm stuff, but it would never work tubeless.

*Edit*
I agree that its confusing to have both 12mm and 21mm tape. Seems like there would be considerable confusion over the years.


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## urawildman (Aug 16, 2009)

I ve used the 21mm tape on my rims setup with tubes without a hitch.

Good points here, if I ever change the tape I would use the 12mm. I don't run tubeless.


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## ergott (Feb 26, 2006)

So I finished up another set of Alphas. To be sure, I did the following. I matched one side of the tape to the edge of the spoke bed. I ran the tape around continuing this. Then once I pushed the tape in place, I too a razor and cut the opposite side of the tape to the other edge of the spoke bed to it doesn't creep up the side. This way the tape goes edge to edge. It was a simple step to add to the process. I still feel more comfortable doing this than using 12mm tape. Tape shifts all the time and I've seen more people have flat tires due to that they from punctures. Best part is it usually takes people 2 or 3 flats in a row before they inspect the rim.


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## bikerjulio (Jan 19, 2010)

Hi Ergott, when you're calling you could mention that there would be a lot less confusion on the tape issue if their site had a section on road rims running tubed tires. And perhaps warning against Velox type tape on a ZTR Alpha 340, even though they sell it! 

See also here that the 12mm tape is "universal" Tape

I searched the site again and came up with nothing. It's basically written around MTB and tubeless.


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## giosblue (Aug 2, 2009)

*All Sorted*

Well! the tape arrived today, can't fault that for service, ordered Friday evening del, Monday morning.

Anyway the tapes fitted and it works fine. It does say to use two layers due to the higher pressure used in tubed tyres. Which makes me think that 12mm tape is for tubed tyres.
Thank for your input and I'm one happy bunny. I'll be even happier next week when I'm Mallorca with the bike. I can't wait, the weather in the UK's been crap lately.


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## bikerjulio (Jan 19, 2010)

Because of the bigger tire volume it acts like a 25mm and you should use correspondingly lower pressures. I'm only using one layer of 12mm tape, carefully applied, and 90/100 psi in the tires.

I'm in the 190-200# range myself and all has been fine so far. One of these days I'll have to take a tire off & check how the tape looks.


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## foot hill (Sep 25, 2010)

if using tubes one layer of tape might work for a while if holes are nicely chamfered( sharp edges removed) but why risk it? its @ 5-6 grams per layer!

12mm works well for using tubes, 21mm is best option for alpha rim using tubeless Hutchinson tires, you cant pull hard enough when installing this tape (just make sure the end is well stuck or you can hit yourself in face (trust me :blush2: the harder you pull, it stretches,ever so slightly and lays into the bead channel and the bead hook 
almost looks like it was heat shrunk on the rim when done correctly. 

i only use one layer for mtb tubeless but this is at about 20-22 psi. 

.... if using alpha rim and going tubeless (have to use tubeless tire) use two layers of 21mm tape, pull hard!! then it helps to install tube and inflate tire over night this will make tape better conform to rim cavity. then dont forget to use lots of soapy water to lube tire bead and prevent damage to soft rubber. :thumbsup:


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## JohnnyC7 (Dec 11, 2011)

bikerjulio said:


> I'm only an amateur in all this. I know that regular road rims use 17-18mm tape. Anything wider is going to interfere with the bead socket and IMHO be an accident waiting to happen. *So 21mm tape on a conventional road rim sounds like a bad idea to me.
> *
> In my first trys with Stan's Alphas and their unusual shape, I used 17mm velox tape and it was impossible to get the bead on the PR's to seat properly. The tire would just blow off the rim because some tape would always be in the bead area. 12mm tape just fits in the semi-circular rim bed without poking up into the bead socket area.
> 
> I think Stan's could improve their site wrt advice on road and tubed applications of their products.


You seem to miss the point that the 340 isn't a conventional road rim? most road rims are ~13mm wide whereas the San's 340 is 17mm, if a regular road rim takes a 17mm tape (like you say) then a 21mm tape sounds perfectly reasonable for a 17mm rim, right? FYI those MTB rims that they list alongside the 340 as compatible with the 21mm tape are also ~18mm wide.


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## bikerjulio (Jan 19, 2010)

JohnnyC7 said:


> You seem to miss the point that the 340 isn't a conventional road rim? most road rims are ~13mm wide whereas the San's 340 is 17mm, if a regular road rim takes a 17mm tape (like you say) then a 21mm tape sounds perfectly reasonable for a 17mm rim, right? FYI those MTB rims that they list alongside the 340 as compatible with the 21mm tape are also ~18mm wide.


No you are missing my point which was referring to this:



> *21mm width fits*:
> 
> ZTR Olympic
> ZTR 355
> ...


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## ergott (Feb 26, 2006)

I have spoken to Stan's in the past and they said it was okay to have some of the tape ride up the side of the rim. 

We are talking about 0.15mm of tape here. Like I mentioned above you could always align the tape to one side of the rim and trim the other side so that you have tape from edge to edge in there. Then you will have much less chance of the tape shifting over time and causing the tube to blow through one of the spoke holes.


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## shokhead (Dec 17, 2002)

Are those Alpha 340 rims any good?


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## foot hill (Sep 25, 2010)

shokhead said:


> Are those Alpha 340 rims any good?


Yes!
Light, wide and strong enough. 
Also shorter bead hook which gives tire more volume. My fusions 23mm measure over 24mm with alpha 340's


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## shokhead (Dec 17, 2002)

I didn't think they were wider then the normal 19 or 20mm rims unlike something like Hed at 23 I think.


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## giosblue (Aug 2, 2009)

*Are those Alpha 340 rims any good? *


I'll let you know, I'm taking mine to Mallorca for 10days. Will be doing about 700 miles. with plenty of mountains.. Just what the Doctor ordered.


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## GR68 (Feb 4, 2008)

giosblue said:


> *Are those Alpha 340 rims any good? *
> 
> 
> I'll let you know, I'm taking mine to Mallorca for 10days. Will be doing about 700 miles. with plenty of mountains.. Just what the Doctor ordered.


Enjoy Mallorca, spent 7 days there - did 1000kms, was one of the best weeks ever on my bike.

Had a few problems with the Alpha 340s. a few punctures which let the tyre unhook from the bead and then destroys the tyre, and twice the tubes poping out between and tyre bead and the rim hook.


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## Dersnap (Mar 28, 2012)

foot hill said:


> if using tubes one layer of tape might work for a while if holes are nicely chamfered( sharp edges removed) but why risk it? its @ 5-6 grams per layer!
> 
> 
> :



One layer of tape on road rims will blow out. I know I had it happen as I was sitting having a beer on the river in the sun. Sealant blew straight out the spoke holes and it was a total mess.

Double that tape up


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## rruff (Feb 28, 2006)

GR68 said:


> Had a few problems with the Alpha 340s. a few punctures which let the tyre unhook from the bead and then destroys the tyre, and twice the tubes poping out between and tyre bead and the rim hook.


You really need to change your installation technique.


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## frontierwolf (Jun 21, 2008)

Dersnap said:


> One layer of tape on road rims will blow out. I know I had it happen as I was sitting having a beer on the river in the sun. Sealant blew straight out the spoke holes and it was a total mess.
> 
> Double that tape up


Yep. I'm here looking for replacement tape size because I had a blowout through a spoke hole. No rough edges or burrs. Just tire pressure was enough to press through the tape. The tape was distended around 2mm into each spoke hole.

I think what I'll do this time is just get two 21mm roles and trim anything that gets to the bead. Always double up though. That's really good advice.


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## 4cmd3 (Jul 14, 2007)

ergott said:


> The Veloplugs do not fit the tight curve of the Alpha spoke bed.


<shrug> It may not be perfect, but the red Veloplugs work fine in my Alpha 340's...

regards


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## giosblue (Aug 2, 2009)

Well, back from the Mallorca trip, 10 days of glorious sunshine and temps in the 25/30 deg.

560 miles gave the Stans Alpha's a really good work out. Anyone who has cycled in Mallorca will know the some of the cycle routes are pretty crap and the wheels have taken a fair pounding, So far they are really good. They remained true and performed well. The mountains were fantastic, I didn't fly up with the new wheels, but they didn't hinder me either.

I like them, they are like a lightweight version of Mavic's CXP33


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## shokhead (Dec 17, 2002)

giosblue said:


> Well, back from the Mallorca trip, 10 days of glorious sunshine and temps in the 25/30 deg.
> 
> 560 miles gave the Stans Alpha's a really good work out. Anyone who has cycled in Mallorca will know the some of the cycle routes are pretty crap and the wheels have taken a fair pounding, So far they are really good. They remained true and performed well. The mountains were fantastic, I didn't fly up with the new wheels, but they didn't hinder me either.
> 
> I like them, they are like a lightweight version of Mavic's CXP33


And as far as them making your tire a little wider, could you tell?


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## rruff (Feb 28, 2006)

Compared to a 19mm rim it looks like ~1.5mm wider on average. Little or no effect on the height.


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## giosblue (Aug 2, 2009)

shokhead said:


> And as far as them making your tire a little wider, could you tell?


I can tell by looking at them because on the Icon I could just about get a 25mm pro race 3 on the back. With these rims I can't, the tyre touches the chainstay.


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## terzo rene (Mar 23, 2002)

ergott said:


> The Veloplugs do not fit the tight curve of the Alpha spoke bed.


 I've been using the red ones for 10 months with no problems. Not with latex tubes though, all ultralight butyl. After making sure they were aligned parallel to the rim I used the butt of a screwdriver and a decent amount of force to make sure they were fully seated. Really no visible gaps underneath after I got done with that.


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## bikerjulio (Jan 19, 2010)

I just measured. I have 23mm PR3's on my Stans and Neutron rims.

On the Neutrons they measure 23.5mm. On the Stans it's 25.5mm.


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## durianrider (Sep 26, 2009)

These are shite rims. If you read the forums the Alpha 340 latest generation is famous for blowing tyres off the rim.

Ive never had a drivers license. Am 36. Riden hundreds of thousands of miles and these Alpha 340 rims would EASILY be the most dangerous item Ive ever purchased. Can't believe I didnt do my homework first lol!

I have a brand new rim. 2 layers of 21mm yellow rip tape as directed by the Stans actual website. Blew 2 tyres off the rim. One whilst riding thru a corner and one whilst the bicycle parked.

These will be recalled when someone dies.


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## rruff (Feb 28, 2006)

durianrider said:


> If you read the forums the Alpha 340 latest generation is famous for blowing tyres off the rim.


Can you direct us to a discussion of the latest 340s?


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## foot hill (Sep 25, 2010)

durianrider said:


> These are shite rims. If you read the forums the Alpha 340 latest generation is famous for blowing tyres off the rim.
> 
> Ive never had a drivers license. Am 36. Riden hundreds of thousands of miles and these Alpha 340 rims would EASILY be the most dangerous item Ive ever purchased. Can't believe I didnt do my homework first lol!
> 
> ...


What tires are you using? 
Tubed or tubeless? 

I have 6000miles on my last set and never any issue only one flat that was a 5-6mm cut that I patched with Hutchinson tubeless patch kit. Then continued to use tire (tubeless fusion 3) until all tread was gone. 

Sounds like you might be using these with reg. tires and tubes?

The bead hook is very short and I wouldn't recommend using these rims with regular (non tubeless) tires as the beads on tubed tires can stretch over the small bead. 

Used tubeless with tubeless tires these rims are great!!

BTW. LOVE YOUR BLOG. And I do follow you on strava. 
Go dates!!!!
Hope things work out for you with these rims. I love them. 
Jason.


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## tednugent (Apr 26, 2010)

Has anyone mentioned, what you're doing with the 21mm tape is, you are stretching the tape so it sits into the drop channel also. the full surface length is 17mm + the 1/2 circumference of the drop channel.


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## Andreas_Illesch (Jul 9, 2002)

rruff said:


> Can you direct us to a discussion of the latest 340s?


I could, but it is all in German language.


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## Mackers (Dec 29, 2009)

You're assuming we can't read German?


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