# House of Pain ride and scary ********!



## Rich_Racer (Jul 12, 2002)

Riding back up Collier Canyon we had an incredible experience. An SUV
heading towards us on the opposite side of the road, crosses the center line
intentionally to "scare" us - fortunately doesn't hit anyone. People shrug
it off as usual ******* crap. Then there's honking behind us and then the
same SUV passes us at high speed, very close to the riders (who were riding
single file because we were actually riding pretty hard up the false
flat/climb there) - and then he swerves to the side of the road in front of
us and slams on his brakes - fish tailing all over the road. Several guys
almost hit the back of the SUV but managed to swerve around him either into
the road or into the grass verge. Then this "kid" (like 17-ish) opens the
door and jumps out like he's going fight someone. He was very quickly faced
with 20 large angry cyclists in his face. It could have deteriorated badly
and the angry little ******* kid could have ended up in a ditch with a chain
ring in his face but people managed to calm down enough to decide to call
the police. The kid tried to get back in the SUV and drive through us but
fortunately one of the riders took the keys out the ignition in time. He
rode off and put the keys in a mail box up the road. We rode off up the road
to get away from him while one guy talked to the cops on the phone. Then
this old guy in an SUV pulls alongside to ask us what happens. He was petty
nice. He even told us where the kid lived - which was right where we were
cycling past - the "Hard Times Ranch"! We stopped there and waited. Okay -
to cut a long story short, the parents never came out but the kid's older
brother gave him a bit crap. The police's attitude was incredible though. The cop
literally said "this is the second time in three months we've had one of
these events - you guys must be doing something to provoke people!". We tried
to explain but all 5 cops were absolutely adamant that is was at least 50%
our fault that it had happened. Eventually we gave up and rode off. It is clear
to me that this kid is utterly out of control and the police just let him get on
with trying to kill people. "Protect & Serve" - huh??! Unbelievable! What
are we supposed to do the next time this happens (because it 100% will)?? 
Call the police - I think not!


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## Rojo Neck (Jun 23, 2008)

Wow. That is pretty amazing. Not so much the incident itself (well...actually it's pretty scary!), but the cop's response. Is this Alameda county? Authorities there (police, county board, etc.) are not exactly known for being pro-bike.


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## Rich_Racer (Jul 12, 2002)

Alameda yes. Actually the sheriff that showed up first (they have very cool new dodge chargers!) was pretty reasonable and started to take statements. Then this slightly overweight CHP officer showed up, claimed to "ride around here himself" and just took over. The three cops that showed up after that ddin't really say much.

At least it's clear from the large number of police that showed up that nothing more serious than this was happening in Alameda country on saturday lunchtime! It is fair to say that the crime rate in the county is generally incredibly low. I expect this kid is just angry and bored with his life.


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## Gnarly 928 (Nov 19, 2005)

Well it sounds like the police aren't much help there. When those tasked with keeping crazy people from hurting you fail, you have a couple of options. Roll over and play dead or take care of yourselves. If you chose the second option, you have to be 'sneaky' about it because the "bad guys' might go to the cops and get some action against you.

We had a ******* who buzzed us for a few weeks in Wyoming as we rode to work each morning down the only road. We called the sherrif who blew us off. We rode to the guys workplace and confronted him directly, explaining that we were on our way to work, also and if he buzzed us again, we would be back to kick his a**. He looked around at 4 very irate carpenters and decided he could probably be persuaded to flex his wrist and give us a little room as he passed each morning. 

Sometimes confrontation is the only thing that works...sad as that may seem, it's what happens..As we get more cyclists on the roads and as new cyclists flex "their" muscles by riding two and three abreast on busy roads, we'll encounter more irate drivers, more agressive pricks who don't realize that if the cyclist he's trying to "brush-back" passing close at high speed...if that cyclist swerves, gets deflected by a stone, gets an unexpected wind gust..That cyclist could be dead... Drivers just think..."Lookit those ****! All dressed up in spandex with writing all over em! Riding right down MY road, like they fuc*in' own in! Roads are for CARS! I'll show them!.." Especially when they encounter a big pack riding along chatting "like they have nothing better to do".

Don Hanson


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## chickenfried (Sep 5, 2007)

I don't have any experience doing this. Just what I've heard you should do if you feel a police officer is not doing a satisfactory job. But what about going to the officers' supervisors and if they don't respond, keep on going up the chain of command?


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## Rich_Racer (Jul 12, 2002)

We could go up the chain. I have a feeling that would be very difficult though. I suppose we had the option yesterday of making a "citizen's arrest" but that takes someone down the road of being personally tied to this case for the next 6 months.

As for sneakily taking this into our own hands - well we could probably start a war and I'm not sure that's going to make us safer. Of course there are some options for retribution that you might argue wouldn't tie in the cycling community at all but we're not really necessarily looking for just retribution. Treating everything on a case by case basis and confronting individuals might have an effect but it'll take a while to get around to all the cowboys in the county and we'd never get through to the angry loner kids.

What we really need is protection and we're not getting it. So in the end - the only option I suppose is to go up the chain of command and see what happens.


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## Rich_Racer (Jul 12, 2002)

Amazing timing of these two events/posts (or not depending on how common it is!). This report here is almost exactly what happened to us only we avoided any injuries:

http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article/article?f=/n/a/2008/07/11/state/n125837D1$

Because injuries were sustained, this doctor guy might be getting 7 years in jail. So
the lesson here is that someone will have to get hurt before the police
will do anything! Great.


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## rzims (Nov 15, 2005)

At the risk of sounding like an old fart....which I probably am... I think this is yet one more example of kids doing whatever they feel like doing and not being held accountable. 
I think maybe going up to the home and asking to talk to the parents would be one option, although I'm afraid it wouldn't have been my first response.
I tend to get really angry when people almost kill me and can only hope that when he got out of the truck I would have had the restraint not to just pound on him in the hopes that it would show him his actions had immediate and painful repercussions....


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## Rojo Neck (Jun 23, 2008)

rzims said:


> I tend to get really angry when people almost kill me and can only hope that when he got out of the truck I would have had the restraint not to just pound on him in the hopes that it would show him his actions had immediate and painful repercussions....


I think that is a natural reaction that most of us would have to situations like this. It is not nice to have your life threatened. But we cannot go around with vigilante justice, beating people up in retaliation. Leave law enforcement to the cops, hard as that is to do.

Is sounds like the riders on this ride showed incredible restraint, and did the right thing by calling the police rather than try to injure or otherwise harass the driver. It is unfortunate that the cops decided not to do anything, but the appropriate response to that is to file a complaint with the PD or other authorities in the area. Don't use this incident as an excuse to ride like a moron or to retaliate. It doesn't help the cause at all.


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## Rich_Racer (Jul 12, 2002)

Rojo Neck said:


> I think that is a natural reaction that most of us would have to situations like this. It is not nice to have your life threatened. But we cannot go around with vigilante justice, beating people up in retaliation. Leave law enforcement to the cops, hard as that is to do.
> 
> Is sounds like the riders on this ride showed incredible restraint, and did the right thing by calling the police rather than try to injure or otherwise harass the driver. It is unfortunate that the cops decided not to do anything, but the appropriate response to that is to file a complaint with the PD or other authorities in the area. Don't use this incident as an excuse to ride like a moron or to retaliate. It doesn't help the cause at all.


Regardless of filing a complaint, we know that the police on the ground don't want to help/protect us and the restraint is likely to away if this happens again, because of it, simply because all the riders involved are now a lot more a) angry b) of the feeling that they are alone and must protect themselves.

To the earlier posters - I'm not sure his parents were home since his older brother was the only one who came out and he did give the kid a good lecture - although I don't know how staged that was. I actually got the impression that his feeling towards his little brother was that he was a pain in the ass, though - somewhat supporting you "old guy" attitude towards the situation. I hope he learned a bit of a lesson but I don't think it matters as he just seem like a crazed angry kid that will fly off the handle and kill someone at some point soon. Good luck to everyone out on that ride tomorrow morning - I'll be "away".


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## Rojo Neck (Jun 23, 2008)

I would file a complaint anyway. Who knows, maybe it is just this one cop who is a dick. The important thing is to make some kind of formal record of the incident. If there are future incidents your complaint(s) can be used. It probably won't make any difference about this specific case, but it won't hurt you (the group) at all to do it, and could actually help. Nothing to lose...


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## Rich_Racer (Jul 12, 2002)

Rojo Neck said:


> I would file a complaint anyway. Who knows, maybe it is just this one cop who is a dick. The important thing is to make some kind of formal record of the incident. If there are future incidents your complaint(s) can be used. It probably won't make any difference about this specific case, but it won't hurt you (the group) at all to do it, and could actually help. Nothing to lose...


Agreed in principle - but just to qualify - there were 5 cops there even if one in particular did seem to be the most firmly in the "dick" category! He even actually said that he himself rode around these roads - everyone just did a double-take at his rotundness at that point!


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## rhauft (Aug 8, 2006)

*HOP Police advice meeting place revised*

This Saturday there will be a brief discussion about about CA vehicle code laws and how they relate to cyclists. The law and how it can and should be applied in the event of a motorist using their vehicle as a weapon.

This is important information that we all need to be aware of. I urge all of you who can make it this Saturday to do so. The talk will be brief (10 Minutes) and will be given by retired law enforcement officer Michael Freeman.

REVISED :

11AM at the gas station at the bottom of Collier, this is the usual stop when we do this loop.


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## Rich_Racer (Jul 12, 2002)

Are you serious? Damn I wish I could make this but I really am out of town this weekend. I think everyone would really appreciate it if someone could post a summary of the advice given.

Does anyone know if anyone in the group filed an offcial complaint? I guess we just all should really.


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## rhauft (Aug 8, 2006)

Rich_Racer said:


> Are you serious? Damn I wish I could make this but I really am out of town this weekend. I think everyone would really appreciate it if someone could post a summary of the advice given


I will be there and will report back here. 
Btw I'm the guy that got brake checked by the G35 in Lafayette 
http://forums.roadbikereview.com/showthread.php?t=138961


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## rhauft (Aug 8, 2006)

*HOP Police advice meeting*

I actually knew the retired cop, he is a local cyclist that just happens to be a retired cop.
He was informal and informative. True to form 10 minutes-ish. He was aware of my altercation from other list server postings. He spoke mostly about our rights to a citizen's arrest and what the ramifications may be. FWIW he said I reacted properly to my situation and should pursue civil action against my assailant, which I fully intend on doing. He desribed it as road rage.


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## LosAngelino (May 30, 2008)

I assume you posters know about the Mandeville canyon incident in Los angeles:

http://www.latimes.com/news/local/la-me-bikecrash12-2008jul12,0,3133098.story

This driver was also reported for a previous incident and the police refused to act, thus setting the department up for a potential lawsuit. I hope this kid doesn't end up like the Doctor in this story. But the Mandeville case should be precedent enough for the police to move.


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