# The Art of Gluing Tubular Tires - DIY



## MIN in PDX

I removed road tubulars and installed tubular cyclocross tires on my cross bike this weekend and I wanted to take the opportunity to document my process - maybe it will help others who are new to tubulars. 

Different forces are at work in cross and road tubular application which conspire to roll the tire off the rim, but the basics of gluing road and cross tubulars remain the same - focus on consistent glue thickness, work in thin layered coats, allow time to dry, and stress the adhesion of the tire to the rim edge without breaks in the glue.

Gluing tubular tires is an art and not an exact science but understanding how the tire stays on the rim will go a long way in helping you to safely and efficiently mount tires. The majority of the holding power comes from adhesion on the outer edge of the rim. In addition, an inflated tire will shrink inward towards the hub so proper inflation is critical to ensure you do not roll the tire off the rim. 

 First the tire must be stretched for ease of mounting.  The cross tires had been stretching - without glue - on a secondary wheelset at max inflation for a couple of weeks. Just before gluing, I chose to stretch again with my shoes - make sure they are clean as not to attract dirt on the basetape, which will compromise adhesion. Start with your feet around the valve stem and work your way around the entire circumference. Don't pull too hard but some force is required. If you hear snapping, then you've gone much too far. 










A clean, well ventilated environment is critical. If there is dirt and dust around, it will get on the rim or tire. Tubular glue is a contact cement and the solvent will evaporate and kill brain cells and get you high in a bad way. 

Use latex gloves. Use only plastic tire levers on carbon rims. Flathead screwdriver are suggested by some for alloy rims, but I only use plastic levers because tires are expensive and I want to be able to preserve the base tape when removing a used tire. 










Inflate the new tire tire to 7 psi to give it shape and hold in the following manner. Apply glue in thin strips working on one section at a time. It's better to do few thin layers than one fat layer. Similarly, it better to do one section at a time so the glue will be easier to spread.










Use an old toothbrush to spread the glue evenly on the basetape. Make sure it's consistent and not too thick. This will take time to do it properly. Avoid getting the glue on the sidewall. If you do, don't try to get it off. It's better to let it dry into place.










Here is a comparison of a glued and unglued basetape. The glued one shown will receive another thin layer once it dries in about 30 minutes. If you layer too thickly, it will take hours to dry. Some glues like Panaracer dries over 24 hours. Vittoria Mastik, which I used, dries 30 minutes or so. Continental glue dries somewhere in between the two. Vittoria Mastik is the hardest setting glue with the fastest drying time - this is great if you've had practice but it it difficult to work with because it requires precision and speed.










While the newly glued tires are drying, remove the old tires. Use a tire lever to pry a small hole between the rim and basetape and slowly work your way until you expose about 12" of tire. This will take substantial elbow grease if you've done a good job of gluing the first time. 










Once you get a about 12" of exposed basetape, use your hands to pull the tire off the side. Be careful to keep the basetape attached to the tire. 










The rim should have a thin coat of glue from the prior application. Do not remove this unless you used too much glue the last time and you ended up with big globs. The old glue will still be sticky. 










Here is how the removed tire should look. Note that glue was applied the outer edge of the basetape. This is ideal. 










Repeat the process of gluing for the rim. Spread thinly (I do 3 thin coats) and focus on applying glue to the outer most edge of the rim. This is of paramount importance. The amount of glue required will be more if if the tires and rims are new, as a layer of glue will need to be built up. I am reluctant to give you a precise suggestion on the amount of glue to be used because difference brands of tire will require varying amounts of glue. However more glue does not always equal stronger adhesion. My experience is that excess glue will compromise a glue job but care must to taken to ensure that you can still get a even and consistant bond using the least about of glue possible.










Once both the rims and tires are dry - the duration of drying will depend on the type of glue you use, humidity and temperature and thickness of coats - you are ready to mount the tire. A final thin layer of glue on the tire which is allowed to dry for 10 minutes is beneficial to ensure a strong bold.

Insert the valve and grab each side around the valve. Pull down hard and work your way to the final few inches on the opposing side of the valve. If you skip this step it will be very difficult, if not impossible, to get the final few inches of the tire over the rim due to the tire's tendency to shrink in.










Once you are ready to pop the final few inches over the rim, tuck the valve side into your gut and use your thumbs to force the tire over the rim lip. This will be difficult and require force.










Quickly align and center the tire on the rim using the basetape as a reference point. It should be a consistent width throughout the tire. It's very important to work quickly here because tubular glue is a contact cement and it will get progressively more difficult to move the tire once mounted. 

Then, inflate to a low psi - say, 30 psi - and realign and check again by spinning the wheel while holding the skewers. The first alignment is a major alignment; the alignment while inflated should be fine tuning. Some cheap tubular tires aren't necessarily round or aligned laterally to start with so take note and buy decent tires. Pump to max psi and roll the tire on the ground with all your weight to set the adhesive bond. Let the tire dry on the rim for at least a few hours before riding.










Voila!


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## roseyscot

nice photo lesson. there are plenty of variations on this approach but i think you hit the key areas. i have been known to ride the wheels gently in a straight line with 30-40 psi to make sure they align nicely and are not noticeably crooked. i would give at least 8-10 hours before hard riding though.


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## MIN in PDX

i reposted this on bikeforums too.


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## pretender

Photo #3 shows the base tape peeling from the tire in places. Is this a problem?


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## MIN in PDX

pretender said:


> Photo #3 shows the base tape peeling from the tire in places. Is this a problem?


I glued that back on to the casing. I was not pleased with the basetape quality on the Vittoria.


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## roseyscot

yeah, funny that you reference investing in a quality tire yet you've mounted the cheapest 'cross tubular available. then again 2 out of the 4 brand new fangos I purchased arrived with treads pealing off the casing so even higher quality tires still have issues.


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## MIN in PDX

roseyscot said:


> yeah, funny that you reference investing in a quality tire yet you've mounted the cheapest 'cross tubular available. then again 2 out of the 4 brand new fangos I purchased arrived with treads pealing off the casing so even higher quality tires still have issues.


the XGs ride well but the grip is so-so. in their defense, the tire was perfectly round and true. i've seen challenges tires do the same thing on the basetape.


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## PeanutButterBreath

MIN in PDX said:


> The process is the same for both road and cross tires.


*Strongly* disagree. Your procedure looks like SOP for mounting road tires.

I highly recommend the following resources for those new to mounting CX tubulars:

http://crazyfast.blogspot.com/2005/10/sticky-fingers.html
http://www.cyclocrossworld.com/Tech.cfm?Action=Edit&MenuKey=3&theKey=46&ShowDisabled=0


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## Francis Cebedo

MIN in PDX said:


> ...


Beautiful resource Min in PDX. I'm interested in copying this article in the Roadbikereview How To blog so this can have a permanent home and more people can see it. Is that ok?

So you have disc brakes in your road bike (now cross bike) carbon wheels? Brilliant!

fc


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## MIN in PDX

PeanutButterBreath said:


> *Strongly* disagree. Your procedure looks like SOP for mounting road tires.
> 
> I highly recommend the following resources for those new to mounting CX tubulars:
> 
> http://crazyfast.blogspot.com/2005/10/sticky-fingers.html
> http://www.cyclocrossworld.com/Tech.cfm?Action=Edit&MenuKey=3&theKey=46&ShowDisabled=0


Share your tips then. This isn't a definitive guide - I am trying to lay down the basics as a starting point. 

The basics of gluing road and cross tubular gluing remain the same - focus on consistent glue thickness, work in thin layered coats, allow time to dry, and stress the adhesion of the tire to the rim edge without breaks in the glue. 

A road tire has the added security of the tire which is aided by the high PSI, however they both require care and diligence.


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## Francis Cebedo

PeanutButterBreath said:


> *Strongly* disagree. Your procedure looks like SOP for mounting road tires.
> 
> I highly recommend the following resources for those new to mounting CX tubulars:
> 
> http://crazyfast.blogspot.com/2005/10/sticky-fingers.html
> http://www.cyclocrossworld.com/Tech.cfm?Action=Edit&MenuKey=3&theKey=46&ShowDisabled=0


What is your objection/suggestion? More glue? Please clarify. I looked at your links and it wasn't immediately obvious.

fc


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## wunlap togo

Excellent photos and nice introduction to the basics. I have a few points that I disagree with you on and I'm thinking that maybe I should do something like this myself so I can just show exactly how I do each part of this "artistic" process. I think I'll save this for my blog, and just address a few things that you are doing that will result in a bond that is not sufficient for cx.

Stretching the tire:

Standing on the tire and pulling will not only get the base tape dirty, but it is an ineffective way to stretch a tire. And as for cleaning tires- If the tire looks at all dirty for any reason, wash it with soap and water and let it dry completely. Clean the gluing surface of the rim with laquer thinner or acetone even if it's new, there is often dirt and oil on new rims. I clean carbon rims with alchohol.

You can't stretch the tire doesn't stretch evenly like that, and if you are aggressive you'll damage the tire, as you note in your instructions. Instead mount the tires on a spare pair of rims or wheels AFTER applying all the glue to the tire base tape and letting it dry. Leave these "prepped" tires on the rims till the last minute and they will go on the glued rims very easily and allow you to avoid making a mess when the final rim layer is still wet (my next point). If you stretch the tires, then remove them from the rims and apply the glue; the tire will actually un-stretch and become a tight fit again by the time you're ready to mount the tire on the glued rim.

Amount of glue:

On a pair of new tires/rims, you can expect to use 5 tubes of Vittoria glue or 6 tubes of Conti glue (conti tube= 25g, vitt tube=30g). The tire base tape must be completely saturated with glue and this amount varies depending on the type of tire, a tufo or older grifo will absorb a whole tube; newer grifo absorbs less. As you are applying the first coat to the tire, pay special attention to putting glue onto the verry outer edge of the base tape to waterproof it. If the outer edge is left unglued, it will absorb water and the bond can be ruined from within. Each rim gets about a tube and a half of glue in 3 fairly thick layers, each of which only needs to dry till it's hard enough to apply another layer. Use lots of glue and apply it either directly from the tube or with a disposable acid brush if you're working with glue from a can.

Final coat on rim:

You will not get a sufficient bond if you let the final rim layer of glue dry. I know the glue will stick when it's mostly dry, but it's dried hard by that point and there will be voids where the glue isn't touching and isn't stuck. In your photo of the old glue job, you mention that the tire was stuck mostly at the edge. What you actually should strive for is a full bond with no "voids" where the glue doesn't touch. 

The way to achieve this is to apply a thick final layer to the rim. Then remove the glue-prepped tire from the stretching rim and mount it immediately. This can be done without making a mess because the tire will be well stretched. Pump the tire to 20 lbs, align as well as you can and then deflate. 

Use your thumbs to physically smoosh the tire into the glue while it's deflated. Go all the way around with your thumbs and make sure there is good full contact. Inflate the tire to only about 40 lbs- if you make it harder, the center of the base tape will be more likely to pull away from the glue bed since the diameter of the tire is so big and may not match the shape of the rim (as seen in your photos of the earlier glue job).

Give it at least 12 hours to dry and you're good. 

I hope you don't take offense at this input, and can count it as constructive criticism. Your post is a very helpful primer for the basics, but tires glued that way will roll under a bigger or faster rider.


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## Gripped

wunlap togo said:


> address a few things that you are doing that will result in a bond that is not sufficient for cx.


I'll second what wunlap says. I've followed his suggestions for the past few years and had excellent results after a few years of not so good results.


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## PeanutButterBreath

My tips are posted here: http://forums.roadbikereview.com/showpost.php?p=1829221&postcount=7 For the most part these summarize tips gleaned from other folks with much more experience than I. Some have posted their own variations in the thread and they are worth reading as well: http://forums.roadbikereview.com/showthread.php?t=150788

I really disagree that road and CX can be considered basically the same. Their shapes are different, which requires consideration of how they mate to the rim. They are ridden at vastly different pressures, which add up to much more than a minor reduction in security. They are also ridden under vastly different climate and course conditions.


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## MIN in PDX

francois said:


> Beautiful resource Min in PDX. I'm interested in copying this article in the Roadbikereview How To blog so this can have a permanent home and more people can see it. Is that ok?
> 
> So you have disc brakes in your road bike (now cross bike) carbon wheels? Brilliant!
> 
> fc


Let's see if we can get somewhat of a consensus on the basics prior to doing so. I believe my method is sound and I have never rolled a tub, road or cross, but it would be interesting to get others' takes. 

wunlap togo- 

re: stretching
Yes, i see what you are saying. I neglected to mention that my tires were stretched and inflated on a spare wheelset for a couple of weeks prior to mounting. I like to stretch with the feet again immediately prior to gluing and my shoes were clean - but your point on the potential to dirty-up the basetape is duly noted. 

re: glue 
It's important to account for the glue which is already on your rim. I do agree with you input on the saturating the basetape but I never use that much glue.


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## PeanutButterBreath

The articles aren't _that_ long and there are several points throughout that add up to a better understanding of how to securely mount a CX tubular.


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## MIN in PDX

PeanutButterBreath said:


> My tips are posted here: http://forums.roadbikereview.com/showpost.php?p=1829221&postcount=7 For the most part these summarize tips gleaned from other folks with much more experience than I. Some have posted their own variations in the thread and they are worth reading as well: http://forums.roadbikereview.com/showthread.php?t=150788
> 
> I really disagree that road and CX can be considered basically the same. Their shapes are different, which requires consideration of how they mate to the rim. They are ridden at vastly different pressures, which add up to much more than a minor reduction in security. They are also ridden under vastly different climate and course conditions.


From a _process _standpoint, what is different?


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## PeanutButterBreath

MIN in PDX said:


> From a _process _standpoint, what is different?


I'm not sure what you mean by "process" here.

I think that *wunlap togo's* summary covers most of my concerns.

I'll add that I am in the camp that builds up the center of the rim with layers of glue so that it better conforms to the shape of a CX tire as opposed to the skinny road tires most rims are shaped to accommodate. There are varying opinions on this, but all are rooted in the desire to bond the tire as securely as possible all the way to the center of the rim. Ripping turns at low pressure, especially in rain, mud and sand will attack the bond at the edge pretty quickly. If that the only area you ensure is completely and securely bonded, your likelihood of rolling a tire is very high.


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## pretender

wunlap togo said:


> Leave these "prepped" tires on the rims till the last minute and they will go on the glued rims very easily and allow you to avoid making a mess when the final rim layer is still wet (my next point).


I would be afraid of the tire sticking to the streching rim, especially if the stretching rim weren't completely clean of old glue. Is this an issue?


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## lithuania

pretender said:


> I would be afraid of the tire sticking to the streching rim, especially if the stretching rim weren't completely clean of old glue. Is this an issue?


I am very curious about this aswell. I am in the process of gluing a new rim and tire now. I applied the first layer to the rim and tire last afternoon and just completed the second layer a few hours ago. This is a reused tire that I just took off a rim a day or two ago. Do you think its still neccesary to stretch again before mounting?


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## wunlap togo

pretender said:


> I would be afraid of the tire sticking to the streching rim, especially if the stretching rim weren't completely clean of old glue. Is this an issue?


Not in my experience. I'm stretching tires on an old battered, half glued wheelset lately and there's no problem with that really. Just give the glued tire an hour or 2 to off-gas before you stretch it on.

Glad you're having better success with your tire gluing, and glad I could help!


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## Gripped

pretender said:


> I would be afraid of the tire sticking to the streching rim, especially if the stretching rim weren't completely clean of old glue. Is this an issue?


The stretching rim needs to be 100% glue free. If it is, the tire won't stick at all.


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## wunlap togo

lithuania said:


> I am very curious about this aswell. I am in the process of gluing a new rim and tire now. I applied the first layer to the rim and tire last afternoon and just completed the second layer a few hours ago. This is a reused tire that I just took off a rim a day or two ago. Do you think its still neccesary to stretch again before mounting?


Attempt to mount it with totally dry glue onto your stretching rim and see how tough it is to get on. If it's hard to get it on, stretch it. If it's old enough that it goes on easy, don't stretch it.

You don't need to make this a multi-day job. With practice, you can glue a new set of tires/wheels in less than 2 hours- rims/tires with glue already on there are even quicker.


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## lithuania

sweet i will mount that sucker on tonight then


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## lithuania

wunlap togo said:


> Attempt to mount it with totally dry glue onto your stretching rim and see how tough it is to get on. If it's hard to get it on, stretch it. If it's old enough that it goes on easy, don't stretch it.
> 
> You don't need to make this a multi-day job. With practice, you can glue a new set of tires/wheels in less than 2 hours- rims/tires with glue already on there are even quicker.


OK i just tried to mount the tire to the old rim and it was definitely not easy so more stretching is in order. I went ahead and put the 3rd coating on the tire and a 3rd on the rim. I am using mastik 1 from the can. So I have a few questions now in regards to stretching. 

1. how long until the glue is dry enough to stretch onto the rim.

2. how important is it for the stretching rim to be glue free? The only one i have available it the rim i took this tire off of which still has old glue on it. 

3. once i get the tire on the stretching rim how high do you pump it up to and how long do you let it stretch before you take it off and mount it to the final rim?

i am using mastik 1 from the can


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## MIN in PDX

I have edited my original post and indicated my revisions with this font color to address some of the concerns which have been raise. 

Still unresolved - the amount of glue to be used. My belief is that thick layers are bad. I also believe it is better to use the least amount of glue you get get away with to get maximum bond. Wunlap Togo somewhat disagrees. If we both never roll a tire then good for us. Use your judgement and seek secondary sources of information and only use my guide as a starting point.

As a final note, if you don't trust yourself to do what is described here then seek out help from someone who does. You can really hurt yourself if you botch a glue job.


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## lithuania

how much do you race cross MIN?


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## PeanutButterBreath

I make a point of inspecting every rolled tire that comes into the pits. Stingy amounts of glue are a near universal feature. In most cases my impression is the same as when I read your write-up: looks like a road tire mount.

Also, the shiny areas that appear on the tire you removed and on the rim suggest to me areas where the two glued surfaces were not in contact at all. While the edges may be vital, if that is all you have then you are prone to sudden failures. Having a joint that spans the entire rim is essential when a rock could force the edge away from the rim or a bad remount or landing could put tremendous forces on it. Its the difference from realizing on inspection that you need to re-glue a tire, and rolling it in a corner.


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## lithuania

also if you only concern yourself with the edges of the rim you are really leaving a potential for elements to sneak inside and filling the center channel compromising your entire glue job.


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## PeanutButterBreath

lithuania said:


> also if you only concern yourself with the edges of the rim you are really leaving a potential for elements to sneak inside and filling the center channel compromising your entire glue job.


Good point.


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## spacemanrides

You can't stretch the tire doesn't stretch evenly like that, and if you are aggressive you'll damage the tire, as you note in your instructions. Instead mount the tires on a spare pair of rims or wheels AFTER applying all the glue to the tire base tape and letting it dry. Leave these "prepped" tires on the rims till the last minute and they will go on the glued rims very easily and allow you to avoid making a mess when the final rim layer is still wet (my next point). If you stretch the tires, then remove them from the rims and apply the glue; the tire will actually un-stretch and become a tight fit again by the time you're ready to mount the tire on the glued rim.

Above is the part that I was missing. I would stretch them on the rim dry and then glue the base tape. I would then be sweating trying to get it on that last 5%. I am guessing that the base tape shrinks after being glued....seems obvious, but not so obvious that I thought of it....


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## wunlap togo

spacemanrides I would stretch them on the rim dry and then glue the base tape. I would then be sweating trying to get it on that last 5%. I am guessing that the base tape shrinks after being glued....seems obvious said:


> I just came up with this trick recently. It makes such a difference. Here's what I do to a new tire:
> 
> Stretch the unglued tire on a rim overnight to be sure it doesn't loose too much air at 40 lbs or so. Be sure the valve is tight. If you've put glue on the tire, you can't usually return it if the tube turns out to be faulty so check it first.
> 
> Completely glue the base tape. Wait till the glue is no longer tacky (45minutes? an hour? something like that, just use your judgement) and put it back on the stretching rim till your ready to stick that bastard.
> 
> You'll see that it's wonderfully easy to do the final sticking with this method and no glue will get on the sidewalls if you're careful, even when the final layer is totally wet. No more panicky, messy tugging on that last bit!


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## wunlap togo

PeanutButterBreath said:


> I make a point of inspecting every rolled tire that comes into the pits. Stingy amounts of glue are a near universal feature. In most cases my impression is the same as when I read your write-up: looks like a road tire mount.


Word. Use LOTS OF GLUE. Not enough glue is for sure the single most common reason for rolled tires.


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## spacemanrides

wunlap togo said:


> Word. Use LOTS OF GLUE. Not enough glue is for sure the single most common reason for rolled tires.


Josh,

Do you know why TJ seems roll tubulars now and again? I am not sure if Stu is using the Belgium method or what but I can think of a few occasions where he has rolled them From watching him race he pushes hard through the corners and wonder if that for some riders if a rolled tub may just be a fact of life? Wells, powers, JP et al not so much, or maybe I am just imagining things.


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## wunlap togo

spacemanrides said:


> Josh,
> 
> Do you know why TJ seems roll tubulars now and again? I am not sure if Stu is using the Belgium method or what but I can think of a few occasions where he has rolled them From watching him race he pushes hard through the corners and wonder if that for some riders if a rolled tub may just be a fact of life? Wells, powers, JP et al not so much, or maybe I am just imagining things.


Well, I don't know if it was him, but one of the US team mechanics glued some tires for my ex, Barb Howe a few years back at worlds in Germany. Stu was there, but I have no idea if he glued it. When I removed the tire in the spring to put a road tire on the rim- you guessed it- not nearly enough glue. Tire came right off with no struggle. And the valve cores were loose, I was really surprised.

It happens all the time. People do everything carefully with the best intentions- but good intentions don't hold tires on; glue does.


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## wunlap togo

Sorry MIN in PDX, I still am in disagreement with you on several of your revised points.

There is absolutely no reason to stretch a tire, unglued, for weeks. Overnight is plenty, just so you know it doesn't leak and you don't have to put the tire to 90 lbs or whatever- 50 lbs is fine. Apply a liberal amount of glue to base tape, wait till it's dry, and stretch the tire onto the stretching rim again. If you can wait another night that's good, but the tire will now go easily onto your final wheel. 

There is never a reason to further wrench on the tire with your feet or whatever. Just stretch it on the rim.

There is no advantage to many thin layers with Vittoria or Conti glue. Thick, fat layers work best. More glue is better than less glue. Tires do not roll as a result of too much glue.

For the best bond, stick the tire to newly applied, wet glue. 10 minutes is much too long to wait. Stick it wet.

I know this is getting into the "art" of all this, and people sometimes have different experiences with this stuff, but I've honestly stuck (and peeled off, more importantly) hundreds and hundreds of tires in the last 5 years. Again, I hope you can appreciate my advice as I truly am not trying to be argumentative here and I'm writing this respectfully and without any wish to get into some kind of a fight here. This is sometimes hard to convey on the internet so please keep that in mind...


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## MIN in PDX

wunlap togo said:


> Sorry MIN in PDX, I still am in disagreement with you on several of your revised points.
> 
> There is absolutely no reason to stretch a tire, unglued, for weeks. Overnight is plenty, just so you know it doesn't leak and you don't have to put the tire to 90 lbs or whatever- 50 lbs is fine. Apply a liberal amount of glue to base tape, wait till it's dry, and stretch the tire onto the stretching rim again. If you can wait another night that's good, but the tire will now go easily onto your final wheel.
> 
> There is never a reason to further wrench on the tire with your feet or whatever. Just stretch it on the rim.
> 
> There is no advantage to many thin layers with Vittoria or Conti glue. Thick, fat layers work best. More glue is better than less glue. Tires do not roll as a result of too much glue.
> 
> For the best bond, stick the tire to newly applied, wet glue. 10 minutes is much too long to wait. Stick it wet.
> 
> I know this is getting into the "art" of all this, and people sometimes have different experiences with this stuff, but I've honestly stuck (and peeled off, more importantly) hundreds and hundreds of tires in the last 5 years. Again, I hope you can appreciate my advice as I truly am not trying to be argumentative here and I'm writing this respectfully and without any wish to get into some kind of a fight here. This is sometimes hard to convey on the internet so please keep that in mind...


Okay, I'll buy you a Chimay when I roll my tires. Cheers.


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## wunlap togo

MIN in PDX said:


> Okay, I'll buy you a Chimay when I roll my tires. Cheers.


I'm not saying your tires are going to roll because of how you're gluing them here. Tires can be glued your way and work for smaller, slower or less aggressive riders.

But if a larger, faster, and more aggressive rider rides tires that were glued your way at low pressure, especially in bad weather or at races with powerwashers, they will roll in short time.

I appreciate the gesture though, and I won't turn down a Chimay, but my hope is that you keep your tires glued securely and have good luck in your races!


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## CDB

Wunlaptogo has been my most reliable resource for cx tubulars. I had spent a long time working my way up to taking the tubular route. I was very hesitant and wanted to make sure I knew of all the options and techniques out there, and to choose the most reliable and trustworthy route. I didn't want to take any chances with my racing. I really trust his recommendations and after some experience over the past three seasons, I have had good luck when I pay close attention to all the details that he has pointed out.

His glue methods are very reliable, and reasonably time efficient. I couldn't believe the torque I was putting on my tubulars last weekend in Astoria on some really bumpy, grippy, off camber grass descents. I was sure they were going to roll there, if ever they were to. Fortunately, they held just fine.

Regarding the stretching of a glued tire on a rim... I have used a clean Ksyrium clincher for this step, since I didn't have a spare tubular rim handy. It worked just fine. I have also stretched the tire lightly prior to installation using my bare, clean feet - big toes only.

Also, regarding the installation of tire to rim step... one mistake I made my first time was to not let all the air out first! You can imagine how stressful that was to try to fit the tire on the rim w/ rapidly drying glue, and 10-15 psi. Not gonna happen! Then in an anxiety ridden state, I had to figure out how screwed I was when I made a nasty glue mess, wondering if I had ruined it all! A little lacquer thinner to smooth things out (and allowed to dry) and a fresh coat of glue later, all was fine.

Wunlaptogo has mentioned this before, and I found it to be true as well... after a few tries at it, you'll figure it out. You can really learn a lot about the quality of your glue jobs if you pay close attention to it after each race, and especially when you remove a tire for a replacement or re-glue. At that point, the weaknesses of your previous glue handiwork become quite apparent. It's interesting to learn about how different weather conditions and stresses affect a tire's glue bond.

Great close up photos to the original poster. That does help a person visualize it all. I like the toothbrush idea too.


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## Coolhand

MIN in PDX said:


> I glued that back on to the casing. I was not pleased with the basetape quality on the Vittoria.


This is a known issue with the Vittorias- I had to send mine back. No issue with my Fangos though.


----------



## pretender

Coolhand said:


> This is a known issue with the Vittorias- I had to send mine back. No issue with my Fangos though.


I went with the Vittorias anyway because the Grifos were backordered through QBP and didn't want to be left high and dry. Also, I had ridden the Vittoria clinchers and liked them. I glued down a few spots before mounting, so far so good but we'll see.


----------



## lithuania

there seems to be a new tubular gluing thread at least once a month and i learn something new each time


----------



## Coolhand

wunlap togo said:


> I just came up with this trick recently. It makes such a difference. Here's what I do to a new tire:
> 
> Stretch the unglued tire on a rim overnight to be sure it doesn't loose too much air at 40 lbs or so. Be sure the valve is tight. If you've put glue on the tire, you can't usually return it if the tube turns out to be faulty so check it first.


The prestretch unglued first is key for that reason- once glued, its yours. If you have a defective base tape, now is the time to catch it (this is how I found out my Vittorias were defective, and was able to return them). 

:thumbsup:


----------



## Francis Cebedo

wunlap togo said:


> I'm not saying your tires are going to roll because of how you're gluing them here. Tires can be glued your way and work for smaller, slower or less aggressive riders.
> 
> But if a larger, faster, and more aggressive rider rides tires that were glued your way at low pressure, especially in bad weather or at races with powerwashers, they will roll in short time.
> 
> I appreciate the gesture though, and I won't turn down a Chimay, but my hope is that you keep your tires glued securely and have good luck in your races!


Chimay, I need to get in on this. I know of only a few Belgian friends but hope to gain a few more this year. I found a local store and this Belgian dictionary is on their site:
http://spreadsheets.google.com/pub?key=p6IlV8a_GeB24bIXqkrDvTg

fc


----------



## thinkcooper

Back in the 80's at the Lake Placid OTC, we were turned on to 3M Fast Tack by the national coaching team for gluing road tubulars. Fast Tack quickly became the tubular adhesive of choice. I haven't ridden any tubulars since the late 80s, but am considering setting up tubular wheels for CCX events. Has Fast Tack fallen out of fashion these days?


----------



## jroden

thinkcooper said:


> Back in the 80's at the Lake Placid OTC, we were turned on to 3M Fast Tack by the national coaching team for gluing road tubulars. Fast Tack quickly became the tubular adhesive of choice. I haven't ridden any tubulars since the late 80s, but am considering setting up tubular wheels for CCX events. Has Fast Tack fallen out of fashion these days?


Fast tack doesn't seem to work so hot for cross, it has a lot of solvent, so glopping it on seems to mess up the base tape, plus it just doesn't seem to be gooey enough to seal at the edge on the final messy coat.

what a barnyard technology these sewups are


----------



## gewilli

there's a local guy who's been racing for eons (okay so he's a fast 45+ guy) swears by Fast Tack... he's not particularly huge nor does he run particularly low pressures but, it is his glue of choice for road and cross... he's never rolled one in cross using it...

I would actually be curious to see the Mastik 1 next to fast tack (i haven't really actually had an open tube side by side yet)... they don't appear so dissimilar


----------



## thinkcooper

jroden said:


> Fast tack doesn't seem to work so hot for cross, it has a lot of solvent, so glopping it on seems to mess up the base tape, plus it just doesn't seem to be gooey enough to seal at the edge on the final messy coat.
> 
> what a barnyard technology these sewups are


I've had some base tape pull off old road tubulars with Fast Tack; to fix it I'd just use a little fresh Fast Tack on the pulled section of tape. Never thought much about why, perhaps it's the solvent, maybe it's just more glue between the tape and the rim than between the the tape and the casing...

I've always figured that all the tubular glues (including Fast Tack) were simply a contact adhesive with little difference between them other than a hefty price tag for a little tube that says "bicycle" on it. 

Edjamacate me. I'm open.


----------



## MIN in PDX

thinkcooper said:


> I've had some base tape pull off old road tubulars with Fast Tack; to fix it I'd just use a little fresh Fast Tack on the pulled section of tape. Never thought much about why, perhaps it's the solvent, maybe it's just more glue between the tape and the rim than between the the tape and the casing...
> 
> I've always figured that all the tubular glues (including Fast Tack) were simply a contact adhesive with little difference between them other than a hefty price tag for a little tube that says "bicycle" on it.
> 
> Edjamacate me. I'm open.


This study on tubular cements shows what experienced glue-huffers already know: Vittoria Mastik is best. 

http://www.engr.ku.edu/~kuktl/bicycle/Cusa1.pdf


----------



## PeanutButterBreath

Try here: http://www.engr.ku.edu/~kuktl/bicycle/Tubular.html.

Lots of info, including:


> The results show the marked difference among the adhesives. The two ‘white’ glues perform better than the ‘red’ ones. They also perform better than 3M Fast Tack. This latter glue is not designed for tubular applications but is, nevertheless, widely used. These results are statistically significant. The rim-type has less of an impact.


The white glues are Conti and Vittoria, and Vittoria is significantly better than Conti.


----------



## thinkcooper

Got to love the internets! Thanks Min and PBB!


----------



## Guest

I always leave the space between two spoke holes without glue, or with very little glue.

Gives an easy place to start when you have to pull it off.

For easy reference I pick the spot on the rim directly opposite the valve hole.


----------



## PeanutButterBreath

toomanybikes said:


> I always leave the space between two spoke holes without glue, or with very little glue.
> 
> Gives an easy place to start when you have to pull it off.
> 
> For easy reference I pick the spot on the rim directly opposite the valve hole.


I've heard of this being requested of mechanics (by triatheletes, specifically).

I don't think it is a risk worth taking on a CX tubular. If for no other reason than that in a CX race, you don't have time to change a flat regardless of how easy it is to remove the tire.


----------



## Gripped

thinkcooper said:


> Got to love the internets! Thanks Min and PBB!


I know I've already done this, but Josh (wunlap) is the man to listen to for tubular glue advice.

FastTac is out of favor for mainstream CX gluing. As Josh mentioned, CX is all about low pressure and the bond is paramount to keeping the tire on the rim. You may have had great success with FastTac in the past. But I'd go with Vittoria Mastik for you first time gluing CX tubies.


----------



## lithuania

toomanybikes said:


> I always leave the space between two spoke holes without glue, or with very little glue.
> 
> Gives an easy place to start when you have to pull it off.
> 
> For easy reference I pick the spot on the rim directly opposite the valve hole.


This practice sounds like its begging for elements to get under a cross tire once again compromising the entire glue job.


----------



## mshaw99

*Glue on tire*

Wunlap - Thank you for the very helpful advice. 

Quick question for you: in your process do you typically apply just 1 thick layer of glue to the base tape, e.g. 1 1/2 - 2 tubes worth, let it dry completely then mount on wet rim? E.g. does this make sense:

DAY 1: 
a) Apply thick layer of glue to tire base tape, let dry for 1-2 hours, put back on stretching rim
b) Apply layer of glue to rim, or in my case hit existing glue on rim w/ lacquer thinner to smooth out glue, then apply layer of glue to rim. _I'm assuming you don't need to wait between applying thinner to rim and applying glue to rim?_

DAY 2:
a) Apply thick layer of glue to rim, take tire off of stretching rim and mount on tire._ I'm assuming it's OK for glue on tire base tape to be dry, e.g. it has dried overnight and I'm not applying another layer of glue to tire before mounting on wet rim?_

-Mark


----------



## wunlap togo

Quick question for you: in your process do you typically apply just 1 thick layer of glue to the base tape, e.g. 1 1/2 - 2 tubes worth, let it dry completely then mount on wet rim? E.g. does this make sense:

-I generally put 1 tube of Vittoria glue into the base tape of a modern Challenge Grifo, and I do it in 2 layers. If I have 2 tires to glue I'll do a layer on one tire, let it dry while I put a layer on tire #2, go back and apply the 2nd coat to tire #1, then apply layer #2 to tire #2. Let this glue dry more or less completely, and stretch both on spare rims. This is all after stretching and checking the tires overnight at 40 psi to be sure they're not defective.

_I'm assuming you don't need to wait between applying thinner to rim and applying glue to rim?_

-Correct. The Laquer thinner won't really "smooth" the glue much, but it does have a rejuvinating effect and makes it soft. The new glue bonds really well to this softened glue.

_ I'm assuming it's OK for glue on tire base tape to be dry, e.g. it has dried overnight and I'm not applying another layer of glue to tire before mounting on wet rim?_

-Precisely. The final wet rim layer will act as the actual bonding glue, and it will basically be between dry glue on the rim and the tire. Dry glue on the tire makes mounting much easier too, trying to install a tire with wet glue on it is messy and ineffective.


----------



## PaleAleYum

Josh,

Thanks for the continued sharing of the art of tubular gluing. Like was mentioned above, while this topic comes up 2x per season without fail, I always come away with something that makes the process easier.

I don't know if this has been discussed earlier, but I was trying out new things last night when gluing on a replacement from last Sunday's flat. 
I've always used an acid flux brush to apply the glue and have had variable results with respect to neatness. Applying blue tape to the rim sidewalls helps, but is time consuming. So I used my finger to apply the glue instead. Much better control, so no taping required and a lot faster. Try it, you may find it works for you as well. 

Secondly, as I purchase the Mastic One in a can, I apply a 4 inch piece of Duct tape across a portion of the opening (ala painter style) This keeps the glue drips out of the top and makes resealing and opening the can later much easier.

Thanks for all the tips.


----------



## canelupo

Unbelievable! This thread is still going. And it's got great info, including another great use for duct tape. Bravo.

Is there any way we could duct tape tubies to the rim?


----------



## hooligan

hey i have a problem...i just finished gluing my fango's and noticed the tread is peeling off on the side where it meets the cotton casing. is this really bad or fixable?


----------



## mlove61

*How long does this gluing method typically last?*

Wunlap and others,
In your experience, how long does a tire glued using the methods you describe typically stay on?


----------



## surfamtn

Is that tire new and unglued? If so I would be sending her back. 
If you have already started glueing it, I bet WonLap will tell you to use Barge to stick that thing down (which is exactly what I would do)


----------



## zank

mlove61 said:


> Wunlap and others,
> In your experience, how long does a tire glued using the methods you describe typically stay on?


I think it is a smart best-practice to reglue your tubs at the beginning of every season. I witnessed lots of rolled tubs in the first couple weeks of the season and most of the guys said they had not reglued from last season.


----------



## pretender

Zank what you been up to? MIssed you in Wisconsin a couple weekends ago.


----------



## zank

yeah, I've been flying back and forth to get some of the last frames done for the year. We'll be at the race on the 15th though! How did it go for you?


----------



## pretender

zank said:


> yeah, I've been flying back and forth to get some of the last frames done for the year. We'll be at the race on the 15th though! How did it do for you?


Loved it. We're back down south now. Nice trip.


----------



## da PEF

I will glue my first set of tubulars tomorrow, how much glue mess is ok on the side of the tire?
Post pics on your "glue jobs" so I can compere to see if I will give myself a Duvell in reward.


----------



## atpjunkie

*I live in a dry area*

but am a Clydesdale. As experiments I have gotten 2 plus seasons out of my gluing and still struggled to remove the tires. My method is similar to Wunlaps but I have also used Matik Tape in the mix to great results. (not as a substitute but an addition)

my quick .02. Buy flux brushes from the hardware store. super cheap and give you good control, plus the width is about equal to the base tape/ rim.

for removal I use an old pedros quick stick. once I get a gap between tire and rim I insert the quick stick through the gap and sit down. . I put the wheel between my legs (on the ground facing parallel to my view), hold quick stick from both sides, roll my wrists like I was rolling dough and rotating the wheel. I have to do this as my glue jobs were impossible to pull off by using the thumbs/hands and doing it this way prevents the base tape from separating from the tire

I also agree, I mount when glue is tacky but wet, and LOTSA GLUE


----------



## DvB

*Take Wunlap's advice!*

Sorry to resurrect a year-old thread, but I just wanted to throw out that wunlap togo's key tip, namely, mounting your pre-glued tubular to a non-glued stretching rim, is perhaps the greatest single cycling tip I've ever learned. 

Mounting my tubs was incredibly easy and totally mess-free using this technique, and the glue coverage is seemingly perfect. Can't wait to race those bad-boys tomorrow! (If I roll them, I'll be sure and post here, cursing wunlap's bush-league technique.)

Thanks again, Josh!

--DvB


----------



## Britishbane

DvB said:


> Sorry to resurrect a year-old thread, but I just wanted to throw out that wunlap togo's key tip, namely, mounting your pre-glued tubular to a non-glued stretching rim, is perhaps the greatest single cycling tip I've ever learned.
> 
> Mounting my tubs was incredibly easy and totally mess-free using this technique, and the glue coverage is seemingly perfect. Can't wait to race those bad-boys tomorrow! (If I roll them, I'll be sure and post here, cursing wunlap's bush-league technique.)
> 
> Thanks again, Josh!
> 
> --DvB


And thanks to you for resurrecting this thread otherwise I would never have seen it.


----------



## bikenerd

Britishbane said:


> And thanks to you for resurrecting this thread otherwise I would never have seen it.


yeah this thread needs to be flagged for automatic resurrection every September 1st!


----------



## zank

If anyone is interested, my overly complicated and time consuming methods are posted here:

http://www.embrocationmagazine.com/how-to-gluing-cx-tubulars


----------



## Gripped

zank said:


> If anyone is interested, my overly complicated and time consuming methods are posted here:
> 
> http://www.embrocationmagazine.com/how-to-gluing-cx-tubulars


I'm a fan of glue only because the inevitable reglue down the line. If you can get new tires and wheels every year or two, it's not a big deal. But those of us who have to use stuff for many seasons -- regluing is pretty important.


----------



## zank

I hear ya. Like I said in the article, I'm not interested in debating one way or the other. I am comfortable with my methods and what they mean down the line. But hopefully the photos will help somebody somewhere figure out a way to make their own process a little more efficient.


----------



## Coolhand

zank said:


> If anyone is interested, my overly complicated and time consuming methods are posted here:
> 
> http://www.embrocationmagazine.com/how-to-gluing-cx-tubulars


That is cool-- thanks!!'

:thumbsup:


----------



## Gripped

zank said:


> I hear ya. Like I said in the article, I'm not interested in debating one way or the other. I am comfortable with my methods and what they mean down the line. But hopefully the photos will help somebody somewhere figure out a way to make their own process a little more efficient.


I'm not really trying to debate either. I'm curious about your experiences with longevity and regluing. Care to comment?


----------



## zank

Oh yeah, happy to. I consider the tape a "permanent" mount. I have had three or four year old tape/glue jobs stay stuck to the point where I had to cut the tire off after it was wrecked. I certainly look at the bond before a season starts and give it a tug to see. But it is always just plain stuck, so I leave it. You _can_ get the tire off without cutting it if all you did is flat. It just takes some work. The ones I cut off were either trashed or the tread was plain worn out.

I think what the tape helps do is build up the glue bed in the center of the channel. It is stuck all the way across and not just on the edges. 

Again, I am of the mind that I don't even want to think about a tire coming off during a race. I'll worry about getting it off at a later time. That's just me. To each their own. They're just tires.


----------



## lithuania

haha i was just thinking about this thread as i had to reglue a tire after rolling it after a year of use. 

I put three layers of glue on the tire and let it dry over night before mounting it to a rim to stretch. Holy hell did i forget just how hard it can be to get a tire on the rim. I really hope this stretching makes it much easier to get on because I am kind of dreading having to mount that tire with wet glue.


----------



## lithuania

zank, thanks for the write up and pictorial. it does wonders for my cross tubular fetish!


----------



## ZoomBoy

zank said:


> If anyone is interested, my overly complicated and time consuming methods are posted here:
> 
> http://www.embrocationmagazine.com/how-to-gluing-cx-tubulars



'Mike is a framebuilder out of Sutton, MA.'

Is this true? If yes we live in the same town. I grew up there.

Sorry for the derail..... excellent article BTW.

Jeff


----------



## jroden

You guide is fine, the one thng that makes cross different is you need to put on a pretty thick coat of glue on the rim and get a good coat on the basetape. It's key to seal all the way out to the edge to keep the water out.

Thanks for making the pictoral guide, I think you did a nice job. People quibble over every little stupid detail like it's freaking rocket science to glue a damn bike tire on a wheel. Who cares if there's freaking glue on the damn stretching rim, how else would it become a stretching rim if it didn't use to be a real rime until you smashed that hole in the last turn of the crit.


----------



## ZoomBoy

My stretching rim is actually a new and unused mavic reflex that I picked up from a shop that was closing years ago just in case I trashed one of my wheels. Thankfully I haven't needed it.

Jeff


----------



## lithuania

man, getting the tire on the rim after a night of stretching was sooo much easier. 

now if i only had managed to get the basetape even on each side of the rim :mad2:


----------



## karl_27376

i got my tubs on the wheels, but i also got glue all over the part of the sidewall while i was getting the last bit of the tire on the rim. i let the glue dry, now, what's the best way to get the dried glue off the sidewall of the tire?


----------



## DM.Aelis

karl_27376 said:


> i got my tubs on the wheels, but i also got glue all over the part of the sidewall while i was getting the last bit of the tire on the rim. i let the glue dry, now, what's the best way to get the dried glue off the sidewall of the tire?


I wouldn't worry about the glue remains on the sidewalls....if it's not on the brake track, I don't think it's really doing any harm. Not like you got gobs on there right?

Others with more experience could chime in here...I might have gotten a little glue here and there on the tire itself, but no big deal in my book *shrug*


----------



## OnTheRivet

karl_27376 said:


> i got my tubs on the wheels, but i also got glue all over the part of the sidewall while i was getting the last bit of the tire on the rim. i let the glue dry, now, what's the best way to get the dried glue off the sidewall of the tire?


I always get a bit of glue on the sidewalls because I use a crapload of glue. I could do nice clean glue jobs but I've seen too many of them roll off the rim.


----------



## Salsa_Lover

I read many times about pumping the tubular to 80psi just after setting it on the rim to set the glue right.

I wouldn't advice that.

I bursted a new Vittoria Cross XN doing just that.... 80psi = bam !

I tried to fix it with Vittoria Pit-Stop and then later 2 ounces of Stans Sealant without success.

Oh well, new tubie so I couldn't just throw it away, so I repaired it ( I am becoming an expert on this )

here some pics, this is the 220TPI version, the sidewalls are stiffer than the Challenge for sure.

open the base tape layer, fortunately the puncture was just close to the valve, be careful doing this, the tape broke when I just pulled it out.










locate the punture and fix it
















sew it back









gluing the base tape back on









voila !


----------



## jmoote

Challenge says their tires are fine at 80 psi, and I've had FMBs and Dugasts up there (though I feel better at 60 with those) for this purpose. The Vittorias are a notoriously lower quality tire, however...


----------



## OnTheRivet

jmoote said:


> The Vittorias are a notoriously lower quality tire, however...


That's my understanding too. My experience is that their road tires are horrible also, will never use them again.


----------



## jmoote

I love the higher-end Vittoria clinchers on the road. Open Pave CG for all around riding and racing, Open Corsa for road racing, Rubino Pro for training. They've all been good.


----------



## Salsa_Lover

I have he Open Corsa CX, 290TPI on my road bike and they are good.

Thi Vittoria is the older Cross Evo Xn, 220TPI and as I said the sidewalls are stiffer than the Challenge Grifo or the TUFO Elites, also the Latex tube seems more fragile than the Challenge one, but looks and feels like the Michelins.

They put out new versions this year, 320TPI for road and 290TPI for Cross this year, and I have read here they are very good now.

The repaired tubie is back on the rim and seems to hold the air well ( at 50psi only  ), I'll take it for a test ride today.


----------



## Mark C

*final layer of glue*

oops.


----------



## ZoomBoy

I just use a small block of wood to place the rim on the floor. I like Zank's tip about using electric tape on the brake surfaces. 

Jeff


----------



## lithuania

do you guys ever have issues getting the preglued tire off the stretching rim?

I usually wait 12 hour or so after applying all the coats to a tire before putting it on to a rim to stretch so its pretty dry. Im always a little nervous when I have trouble getting them off rims 12 hours later when I go to mount them to the final rim.


----------



## jroden

Zank--i really liked your guide--what do you do when it's time to replace a tire and where does the tape end up stuck to, the tire or rim? Do you have to strip all that crap off and start over?


----------



## Carl Mega

Hello - Just finished glueing my tires (11:00AM). Will I be able to race them tomorrow at 10:30 AM? Figure I need about 1 hour warm-up so at say 9:30? Nothing like trying something new in a race


----------



## cogswell23

Carl Mega said:


> Hello - Just finished glueing my tires (11:00AM). Will I be able to race them tomorrow at 10:30 AM? Figure I need about 1 hour warm-up so at say 9:30? Nothing like trying something new in a race


You should be fine.


----------



## yo mamma

I can't get the link to the study that folks have referenced re: which glues work best, why fasttack doesn't work, etc... to open, but I've read it before and have a recollection of the conclusions. I've also seen a report from one of the USAC mechanics (if I recall correctly) and both studies seemed to conclude that once you've got enough glue, more glue doesn't help and in some cases makes it worse. Yet, everyone seems to be saying that the secret to gluing cx tubies is to over-glue the darn things, the more the merrier. What gives?


----------



## imba_pete

Lennard Zinn recently post a good how-to article:
http://velonews.com/article/100066/technical-qa-with-lennard-zinn---getting-those--cross-tires

Earlier this fall I told Lennard the tip about keeping the glued-but-not-wet tire on a unglued rim until right before you are ready to mount it on the final wheel. He included the tip in his article, but all credit should go to wunlap and this thread, which is where I learned it!

Thanks, Pete


----------



## OnTheRivet

yo mamma said:


> I can't get the link to the study that folks have referenced re: which glues work best, why fasttack doesn't work, etc... to open, but I've read it before and have a recollection of the conclusions. I've also seen a report from one of the USAC mechanics (if I recall correctly) and both studies seemed to conclude that once you've got enough glue, more glue doesn't help and in some cases makes it worse. Yet, everyone seems to be saying that the secret to gluing cx tubies is to over-glue the darn things, the more the merrier. What gives?



I think it's a matter of getting glue all the way to the edges, enough that it oozes out the sides, it will require quite a bit more glue to get this to happen on a cross tire versus a road tire. Cyclocross is it's own animal, so I would take recommendations from road mechanics with a grain of salt.


----------



## dmon

*Couple of extra tips*

One way to save time and money is to purchase glue by the can. Then purchase a cheap plastic medical syringe 30 or 40cc (drugs stores have them). You can draw the glue from the can right into the syringe. Then use the syringe to put a thin line all the way around the base tape or the rim. Then just brush it on. I save about an hour and also minimize the mess since you are going from the can to the tire with your brush. A couple of other tips. Get some cheap black tape and cover up your braking surfaces. This saves clean up time later. You don't have to put it on precisely. Last one after your tire is on roll it on a broom handle. This gets the right pressure on the tire abd gets it seated. My 2 cents.


----------



## jczajka

I like your boots. what make are they?


----------



## moab63

*Wunlap thanks for the great writeup*

The first one I did was the long wait for 24 to dry and so many very ligth coats and so on. Using your method makes this a very easy and managable job. I'm a tubular road guy next I'll be a cross tubular guy.


----------



## mogarbage

I am new to tubulars as well, and just put on my first layer of glue on new wheels and tires.
Using the Mastik 30g tubes, I still have 1/2 a tube left. From reading the instructions here, it seems I am not using enough. If I went and tried to apply it thicker, it would be very lumpy imo. I've read from another respected tubular user, than using thin coats is the way to go. Were the instructions here for road or CX wheelsets? Would that make the difference?


----------



## Kram

Here; try this. i use thin coats just like this method.
http://www.cxmagazine.com/howto-gluing-tubular-cyclocross-tires


----------



## sslos

mogarbage said:


> I am new to tubulars as well, and just put on my first layer of glue on new wheels and tires.
> Using the Mastik 30g tubes, I still have 1/2 a tube left. From reading the instructions here, it seems I am not using enough. If I went and tried to apply it thicker, it would be very lumpy imo. I've read from another respected tubular user, than using thin coats is the way to go. Were the instructions here for road or CX wheelsets? Would that make the difference?


I've found, over the years, that Mastik sometimes separates slightly, so I squeeze out the glue into a small sealable container and stir it.
And yes, you're probably not using enough- a tube is about enough for a pair of tires.

Los


----------



## dankilling

BumP - because folks are going to start asking how to glue their tubulars soon. (again)


----------



## pretender

dankilling said:


> BumP - because folks are going to start asking how to glue their tubulars soon. (again)


Ignore this thread and just go here:
Embrocation Cycling Journal: How To: Gluing CX Tubulars - By Mike Zanconato


----------



## Kram

And this method rocks because Mikey Z is DA MAN.


----------



## haikalah

*Anyone else still gluing tubulars?*



wunlap togo said:


> Excellent photos and nice introduction to the basics. I have a few points that I disagree with you on and I'm thinking that maybe I should do something like this myself so I can just show exactly how I do each part of this "artistic" process. I think I'll save this for my blog, and just address a few things that you are doing that will result in a bond that is not sufficient for cx.
> 
> Stretching the tire:
> 
> Standing on the tire and pulling will not only get the base tape dirty, but it is an ineffective way to stretch a tire. And as for cleaning tires- If the tire looks at all dirty for any reason, wash it with soap and water and let it dry completely. Clean the gluing surface of the rim with laquer thinner or acetone even if it's new, there is often dirt and oil on new rims. I clean carbon rims with alchohol.
> 
> You can't stretch the tire doesn't stretch evenly like that, and if you are aggressive you'll damage the tire, as you note in your instructions. Instead mount the tires on a spare pair of rims or wheels AFTER applying all the glue to the tire base tape and letting it dry. Leave these "prepped" tires on the rims till the last minute and they will go on the glued rims very easily and allow you to avoid making a mess when the final rim layer is still wet (my next point). If you stretch the tires, then remove them from the rims and apply the glue; the tire will actually un-stretch and become a tight fit again by the time you're ready to mount the tire on the glued rim.
> 
> Amount of glue:
> 
> On a pair of new tires/rims, you can expect to use 5 tubes of Vittoria glue or 6 tubes of Conti glue (conti tube= 25g, vitt tube=30g). The tire base tape must be completely saturated with glue and this amount varies depending on the type of tire, a tufo or older grifo will absorb a whole tube; newer grifo absorbs less. As you are applying the first coat to the tire, pay special attention to putting glue onto the verry outer edge of the base tape to waterproof it. If the outer edge is left unglued, it will absorb water and the bond can be ruined from within. Each rim gets about a tube and a half of glue in 3 fairly thick layers, each of which only needs to dry till it's hard enough to apply another layer. Use lots of glue and apply it either directly from the tube or with a disposable acid brush if you're working with glue from a can.
> 
> Final coat on rim:
> 
> You will not get a sufficient bond if you let the final rim layer of glue dry. I know the glue will stick when it's mostly dry, but it's dried hard by that point and there will be voids where the glue isn't touching and isn't stuck. In your photo of the old glue job, you mention that the tire was stuck mostly at the edge. What you actually should strive for is a full bond with no "voids" where the glue doesn't touch.
> 
> The way to achieve this is to apply a thick final layer to the rim. Then remove the glue-prepped tire from the stretching rim and mount it immediately. This can be done without making a mess because the tire will be well stretched. Pump the tire to 20 lbs, align as well as you can and then deflate.
> 
> Use your thumbs to physically smoosh the tire into the glue while it's deflated. Go all the way around with your thumbs and make sure there is good full contact. Inflate the tire to only about 40 lbs- if you make it harder, the center of the base tape will be more likely to pull away from the glue bed since the diameter of the tire is so big and may not match the shape of the rim (as seen in your photos of the earlier glue job).
> 
> Give it at least 12 hours to dry and you're good.
> 
> I hope you don't take offense at this input, and can count it as constructive criticism. Your post is a very helpful primer for the basics, but tires glued that way will roll under a bigger or faster rider.


Sorry for resurrecting this thread, but wunlap's suggestions are what I go by and always search for. Sometime finding this thread is hard, so now having posted to it, I'll just be able to search for my posts (which are few).

Happy racing.

(And yeah, there is still some racing happening. Baileycross in Birmingham, Alabama this weekend.)


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## mackgoo

Unfortunately. I can't see the pictures. I went to tape at least 20 years ago for all applications and I've never had any issues.


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