# Garmin's Tour Roster?



## teffisk (Mar 24, 2006)

I know it is way to early to make any real predictions, but I was just looking at their team roster and I think it will be a tough choice. Teams like Astana and Saxo were pretty easy but Garmin has too many good riders. Any thoughts?

Vdv
Millar
Zabriskie
Lowe
Martin
Dean
Farrar
Cozza
Hesjedal
Pate
Dekkers
Tuft
and Danielson if his new program turns him around

Just too many great riders.


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## dave2pvd (Oct 15, 2007)

Hmmmm.....Martin is a big contender for U23 honors.

I _think_ Andy Schleck will be 24.


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## teffisk (Mar 24, 2006)

Andy will be 24 but I believe the White Jersey is awarded to the best U25 rider


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## flyingheel (Aug 30, 2008)

That's correct, the Best Young Rider jerseys are under 25 for Grand Tours and some of the shorter stage races also I believe (Dauphine, etc). The races can create their own jersey competitions and U25 seems to be the tradition. U23 is more a UCI thing.


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## Mootsie (Feb 4, 2004)

teffisk said:


> I know it is way to early to make any real predictions, but I was just looking at their team roster and I think it will be a tough choice. Teams like Astana and Saxo were pretty easy but Garmin has too many good riders. Any thoughts?
> 
> Vdv
> Millar
> ...


If healthy, I am going with:
VDV
Wiggins
Millar
Zabriskie
Tuft
TD
Pate
Farrar
Dean
All built for the TTT, a stage win and to get VDV on the podium.


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## teffisk (Mar 24, 2006)

Mootsie said:


> If healthy, I am going with:
> VDV
> Wiggins
> Millar
> ...


That looks good. I totally forgot about Wiggins. I'd have to replace TD for Martin. But that decision can be made more accurately closer to July. They would be so stacked then


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## Digger28 (Oct 9, 2008)

Mootsie said:


> If healthy, I am going with:
> VDV
> Wiggins
> Millar
> ...


You couldn't really argue much with that line up...Very very strong for the TTT...Martin, I don't think will be raced in the Tour next year, I reckon either the Giro or Vuelta first for him...TD, from a neutral perspective, is he not one the most over rated cyclists around?!! I accept that he's been lucky with injuries and illnesses, but still....He'll probably go on and win the Tour now next year!!


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## dave2pvd (Oct 15, 2007)

JV talked about Martin riding the Tour. He mentioned looking forward to being able to give VdV some support in the mountains. Let me see if I can find the link....nope, can't seem to locate it. It thought it was a CN article; maybe not.


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## otoman (Mar 8, 2004)

Mootsie said:


> If healthy, I am going with:
> VDV
> Wiggins
> Millar
> ...


That lineup would leave VDV too isolated in the high mountains; Trent Lowe, Martin and TD would be a big help to him. Wiggins is just too much of a one-trick pony.


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## Digger28 (Oct 9, 2008)

otoman said:


> Wiggins is just too much of a one-trick pony.


You're spot on...He has achieved an awful lot in the sport, but he really is almost a passenger for a three week tour...It's either the Prologue or bust for him...Not unlike Chris Boardman though...


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## Mootsie (Feb 4, 2004)

otoman said:


> That lineup would leave VDV too isolated in the high mountains; Trent Lowe, Martin and TD would be a big help to him. Wiggins is just too much of a one-trick pony.


I was bouncing back and forth between Martin, Lowe and TD. TD is a safer choice for a TTT, Lowe/Martin are better support for the mountains, but man o' man you just have to drool over having Wiggins in the line up for the TTT.


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## teffisk (Mar 24, 2006)

Mootsie said:


> I was bouncing back and forth between Martin, Lowe and TD. TD is a safer choice for a TTT, Lowe/Martin are better support for the mountains, but man o' man you just have to drool over having Wiggins in the line up for the TTT.


I just have to believe that JV has bigger aspirations for Le Tour than just winning the TTT. With or without Wiggins they look strong to contest that anyway. I think VdV will be asking for more help in the mountains. But the abilities of those guys is much more variable than the TT abilities of Tuft and Millar


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## flyingheel (Aug 30, 2008)

This years prologue is not a good one for Wiggins (too hilly in opening Ks, too long and too technical in the downhill portions). Wiggins finished almost 30 seconds down if I remember right to Cancellara in the '07 prologue and this one is twice the distance (which is a disadvantge to Wiggins). Additionally with the high mountains coming relatively early this year (Stage 7), his help will not do much after the first week (and its unlikely Garmin will need it as they shouldn't be defending jersys in the opening stages and can rely on pure sprinter teams to keep breakaways honest). 

Why hasn't anyone mentioned two of the new acquisitions for Garmin this year to be included in their Tour roster - both of which have climber reputations? I was under the impression that both Christophe Laurent and Ricardo Van der Velde were brought in specifically to help VDV.

My Tour team would include:

VDV
Christophe Laurent
Ricardo Van der Velde (though at 21 he may be too young, but great potential)
Dave Zabriskie
David Millar
Dan Martin
Martijn Maaskant
Trent Lowe
Blake Caldwell

If Martijn can't hold good form after the classics all the way to July, replaced with Cozza)


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## mtbbmet (Apr 2, 2005)

Unless injured, Hejsedal will be on the Tour team. You guys totally forget about him everytime this comes up. He was/is one of their best riders uphill, and in the ITT. IIRC he finished 14th in the final ITT last year.
I doubt Martin will race the Tour next year. JV will have do the Giro or the Vuelta first before he throws him into the TdF.
So here are my picks
CVV
Dave Z
Millar
Wiggins
Lowe
Tuft
Pate 
Hejsedal
either TD or Farrar, that's the only toss up to me.
No way is Maaskant making it next year, and I would be surprised if they take Dean. They would be better served having a more focused team.


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## Mootsie (Feb 4, 2004)

teffisk said:


> I just have to believe that JV has bigger aspirations for Le Tour than just winning the TTT.


I hope so or it will be a boring three weeks watching the team, but he has publically stated that the TTT was a goal and could also be used to give a cushion to VDV in the mountains.


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## kbiker3111 (Nov 7, 2006)

I'm pretty sure Wiggins talked about laying off the track and focusing on road races until gearing up for 2012. I'm pretty sure he wouldn't sign with a team without assurance that he'd be in GTs. Don't forget that an extra minute in the TTT is worth giving up some help in the mountains. 

I doubt VdV has aspirations of winning the tour, especially with Astana back. He probably wants to do another top 5.


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## Eric_H (Feb 5, 2004)

I agree with mtbbmet, Hesjedal will get a Tour spot. He can TT well, he climbs reasonably well, and he has finished the Tour. From last year's team I would say the following guys are likely to be sure picks if they are healthy:

VdV, Millar, Pate, Lowe, Hesjedal (all in 2008 team), plus Zabriskie

Realistically leaves 3 spots. From the 2008 guys: Maaskant, Dean, Frischkorn, Backstedt, I would say only Julian Dean is a candidate. Maaskant does not offer as much as JD for a grand tour. I mean, Dean *could* take out a bunch sprint in the right scenario plus win from a breakaway. Maggie will not be riding the Tour unless he is in SUPER form. And Frischkorn was last man selected last year and given the influx of talent he is hard-pressed to get the nod. 

So, 3 spots out of, let's say: Dean, Martin, Farrar, Danielson, Wiggins, Tuft, and Dekkers. A big thing will be how many grand tour virgins Garmin is willing to take. Martin, while very talented is still very young. Exposure to a 3-week tour other than the big one might be better for his long term development. If they want a "sprinter" the choices would be Dean, Farrar, and Dekkers. Dean has finished lots of GTs but I think his chances of winning a bunch kick are ultimately small. Farrar has not shown that he can beat the best guys just yet. That leaves Dekkers who is a fast guy but a wildcard. So I say, stick with the TTT/GC plan and leave the sprinters out as Garmin does not actually have a guy at the Cavendish/Boonen/Steegmans/McEwen/Ciolek/Freire/Hushovd level. 

I guess my final three would be Danielson(shudder), Wiggins, and Tuft. If Danielson can actually get it together he could provide some climbing assistance to VdV, but if he is off form and attitude then it is better to maybe roll the dice on Dan Martin. Note that I am very biased towards Svein Tuft  as he is a homeboy, even though he is a grand tour virgin as well. He is one tough bastard and will work like a dog and only get stronger as the race goes on. Wiggins has Tour pedigree, even though I think his road performances are well below his physical potential. My team would optimally target the TTT and try to support VdV's GC run, completely the expense of sprinting. Who remembers 6th place in bunch sprints anyway??


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## travis.dubose (Sep 25, 2005)

I don't see how Dean or Farrar, as much as i like them, both make the team. Farrar doesn't have quite the sprinting pedigree of Dean (not yet at least), but seems like he's a little less of a one trick pony. 

I think Martin, though young, is probably in. 

Going overboard on that TTT sure leaves VDV stranded in the mountains, but at the same time it seems silly to sign Tuft and Wiggins and not use them.

Danielson is a a total wild card. I would say it depends completely on if he can get himself into any sort of form and what is attitude is like. It's unfortunate that he isn't reaching his potential on Garmin. 

So here's my lineup:

1.) VdV
2.) Millar
3.) Zabriskie
4.) Pate
5.) Tuft
6.) Wiggins (may get replaced with climber if this lineup is too TT specialist heavy)
7.) Farrar (or Dean, maybe Maggie if he's killing it)
8.) Lowe (or Danielson)
9.) Martin (or Hejsedal)

That's stacked lineup that leaves a bunch of talented guys off the team. Balancing TT specialists with climbers / all arounders is certainly the challenge, but that's why JV is in charge and not me. I guess its a good problem to have though.


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## JSR (Feb 27, 2006)

Hmmm, not one mention of Cozza. He's my dark horse. If he rides the first half of the year like he did last year JV'll HAVE to include him. He has this hell-bent-for-leather-Jens-Voigt style of riding that's very compelling.

JR


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## kbiker3111 (Nov 7, 2006)

Is Frischy still on the team?

If so, I hope theres some loyalty and he makes it again. His stage 3 breakaway last year was badass.


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## travis.dubose (Sep 25, 2005)

Yeah, i struggled with whether or not to include Cozza. I like the guy, like his riding style, loved the 'stache, and he's from the Bay Area, but i really think someone has to screw up for him to make the team. Having said that, i would be thrilled and not all that surprised. He's a great work horse, i just don't know about his TT ability.

As much as i love Frischkorn, and his break away was a great day for him, he barely made the team last year, they signed a lot of new talent, hopefully fewer guys will be injured, and the younger guys are getting better. I fear Frischkorn is going to get squeezed out. 

I'd love it if they could send everyone, but the rules say you can only bring 9. Not everyone can be a winner. :17:


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## teffisk (Mar 24, 2006)

After reading all the comments I think I have a revised list. And there still too much talent to include but there are a lot of races to spread it around.

1) VdV
2) Millar
3) Hejsedal
4) Lowe
5) Dean
6) Zabriskie
7) Pate
8) Tuft
9) Still a toss up between TD, Martin, Cozza, and Maaskrant


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## moonmoth (Nov 8, 2008)

A few comments:


The locks for the team: CVV, Zabriskie, Millar, and Wiggins (see point three). That leaves five spots, keeping in mind that probably one of these guys will be lost to an injury by then.
Laurent is no longer on Garmin; I believe he is on Agritubel, which should almost guarantee him a TdF start. Good for him!
Do you really think Wiggins was recently signed, only to be left off the TdF team? Regardless if the course or prologue does not fit his style, you can bet he'll be on the team unless an injury creeps up.
Martin could help CVV in the hills, and he will be doing a Grand Tour this year but not sure which one yet. JV could defy conventional wisdom by keeping him out of this year's ultra-hyped, Lance-infused anniversary Giro. Martin said in a recent interview that his 2009 program could be decided in the upcoming Boulder training camp, so maybe we'll find out soon.
JV has already hinted that both Cozza and Farrar will be seriously considered for TdF, given their strong late-year performances. Farrar was slated to start TdF this year but Frischorn replaced him due to injury.
Frischorn, Pate and Hesjedal all did a courageous Tour, and generated some buzz and serious camera time. Some would say that they all deserve a sophomore start to improve on this year's experience and learnings. It will be difficult for JV to leave them off the squad. 
Backstedt should focus on some classics and shorter races and not take up a Grand Tour slot, even with his seniority. The guy can't finish a long stage race anymore. 
And *sigh* Danielson. Yeah, JV is personally coaching him and as mentioned in another thread, he has the most Grand Tour climbing experience on the team, next to CVV and Zabriskie. TD will be on the bubble but he'll likely be included if he can avoid his usual physical and mental issues.


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## Mootsie (Feb 4, 2004)

*Where JV's head is at*

“We’re a team of time trialists,” Vaughters told Glasscock. “A lot of teams have climbers or sprinters, but we build our team around time trialing.”

See the whole article here:
http://www.vaildaily.com/article/20... grad Shelden signs deal with Garmin-Chipotle


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## ntpetrie (Jul 13, 2007)

Here are my pics for the squad:

CVdV
Millar
Zabriskie
Wiggins
Tuft
Pate
Hesjedale
Danielson
Martin


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## moonmoth (Nov 8, 2008)

ntpetrie said:


> Here are my pics for the squad:
> .
> .
> Tuft
> ...


Right-o. I didn't mention Tuft but how can you leave off a second place World's ITT champion, flat tire at final 5K no less, off the Tour team, especially if half your focus is on the time trials!

I'd almost declare Svein Tuft a lock, leaving only *gulp* four slots left to fight over. And, of course, he's a good friend of JV, which always helps.


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## ntpetrie (Jul 13, 2007)

Anybody here going to the Garmin team presentation this weekend in Boulder?


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## coop (Jun 8, 2008)

We have to remember that Garmin will probably be doing all 3 GT's next year so it's not like the TDF is the only dance they're going to. The young guys like Cozza, Martin, Lowe, Farrar, Dekkers, etc will all get their chance for some GT time, maybe not TDF. As for last years team: VDV, Pate, Millar, and Ryder are probably a lock for this year. Lowe seemed a little out of his league, lost some of his early season form and for the most part invisible, Big Maggie needs to concentrate on the classics and forget GT's, Dean had a good tour, but what's the point in having a sprinter if there is no one to do the lead out? Maaskant had a great spring, and has a great future, but I don't think he's on the TDF team next year, Frishkorn was entertaining, but as mentioned before, a late addition and therefore on the bubble.

I guess it all depends on Garmins goal for the TDF. Do they want to try and contend for a podium, or animate and go for the TTT and stage wins? If anything, last years tour showed that VDV was exposed in the mountains. If not for Ryder on that one stage, he may have lost even more time. So with that I have 2 squads...

Podium squad: VDV, Millar, Pate, Ryder, Danielson, Tuft, Martin, Wiggins, Zabriskie

Animate squad: VDV, Millar, Pate, Ryder, Tuft, Wiggins, Farrar, Cozza, Dean


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## moonmoth (Nov 8, 2008)

coop said:


> I guess it all depends on Garmins goal for the TDF. Do they want to try and contend for a podium, or animate and go for the TTT and stage wins?


I don't think it's going to be a binary decision. Garmin needs TT stage wins for publicity but they can't ignore trying to get CVV on the podium. I guess their strategy will be to turn up the heat on the TTT to buy CVV some precious time on the field, and then do whatever it takes not to lose too much in the mountains.


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## moonmoth (Nov 8, 2008)

The Velo News video's are starting to appear from Saturday night's introduction of Garmin-Slipstream (Chipotle is still a sponsor but a lesser one, thus the drop of their name from the team title):

http://www.velonews.tv/

More should trickle out over the next few days if it's anything like last year.

Looks the emphasis this year is on winning, based on JV's talk, unlike last year when "clean" was their mantra. Doesn't sound like they'll be satisfied this year with losing leads on the last day, like in Georgia and Utah. No more Mr. Nice Guys?


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## Mootsie (Feb 4, 2004)

moonmoth said:


> I don't think it's going to be a *binary decision*. Garmin needs TT stage wins for publicity but they can't ignore trying to get CVV on the podium. I guess their strategy will be to turn up the heat on the TTT to buy CVV some precious time on the field, and then do whatever it takes not to lose too much in the mountains.


Lingo bingo! I score on first getting "binary decision"!
Sorry, had to give you grief for that one.


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## moonmoth (Nov 8, 2008)

Mootsie said:


> Lingo bingo! I score on first getting "binary decision"!


Yeah, sorrry about that one.

Plowing through the Garmin interviews, David Millar effectively says no Giro for him this year.


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## flyingheel (Aug 30, 2008)

Is it me, or is Magnus looking more and more like the guy from the original "The Hills Have Eyes"?


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## kbiker3111 (Nov 7, 2006)

I guess Magnus is in, or at least thinks he's in. 

http://www.cyclingnews.com/news.php?id=news/2008/dec08/dec06news (4th story down)


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## moonmoth (Nov 8, 2008)

kbiker3111 said:


> I guess Magnus is in, or at least thinks he's in.


Yep, saw that too. Perhaps he gets in because of his major power output in the TTT in the Giro last year.

But based on that, it only looks like there are two slots left.

Van De Velde (lock)
Zabriskie (lock)
Millar (lock)
Wiggins (lock)
Backstedt (hinted he will be there)
Dean (several hints floating around that he will be in the TdF)
Danielson (hey, he says it's on his schedule; it's his to lose now)

And you gotta believe Tuft gets on of 'em. 

Can Tuft climb? They still need help for CVV in the mountains, other than Danielson. I know Zabriskie can do well in the hills (remember him with Schleck in the Giro two years ago?). I'd say they'll grab Hesjdal for number nine because he can time trial and climb.


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## Guest (Dec 7, 2008)

I am looking forward to seeing what Tuft does this year on a team like Garmin, hopefully it works out well for him.


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## moonmoth (Nov 8, 2008)

Latest lineup, with the recent update from Hesjedal who says it's on his 2009 schedule. Plus, Ryder just broke Vaughter's Haleakala 1993 record in Maui, with a time of 2:32, so he's definitely made a strong case for the team.

Van De Velde (lock)
Zabriskie (lock)
Millar (lock)
Wiggins (lock)
Backstedt (hinted he will be there)
Dean (several hints floating around that he will be in the TdF)
Danielson (hey, he says it's on his schedule; it's his to lose now)
Hesjedal 

Leaving one wild card open, probably to Tuft. 

Injuries and form, of course, will shuffle all this up by the time May rolls around when the squad is announced.


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## Susan Walker (Mar 21, 2008)

moonmoth said:


> Latest lineup, with the recent update from Hesjedal who says it's on his 2009 schedule. (...)
> 
> Van De Velde (lock)
> Zabriskie (lock)
> ...


On his website, Maaskant says he's in the preliminary lineup (message from 3 Dec 2008: http://www.martijnmaaskant.nl/nieuwsbericht.php?id=119). Also, that he will start the Vuelta if he doesn't make the Tour team.


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## moonmoth (Nov 8, 2008)

Susan Walker said:


> On his website, Maaskant says he's in the preliminary lineup (message from 3 Dec 2008: http://www.martijnmaaskant.nl/nieuwsbericht.php?id=119). Also, that he will start the Vuelta if he doesn't make the Tour team.


Interesting. He was interviewed during the Boulder November presentation and he basically said that Grand Tours were not his thing, which led me to think that his focus would be the classics + the shorter stage races. He did finish last year's Tour, which does earn him some consideration.

I've heard a few of the Garmin riders on the bubble all say the same thing now: the Vuelta will be used as a holding tank for anyone that doesn't make the Tour team.


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## Susan Walker (Mar 21, 2008)

moonmoth said:


> Interesting. He was interviewed during the Boulder November presentation and he basically said that Grand Tours were not his thing


Slight miscommunication I guess. Perhaps he meant that going for the GC in a grand tour is not his thing. At several places on his website (like in that linked video interview at the Rotterdam 6) he says that "Vlaanderen/Roubaix and the Tour" are his main objectives for 2009. He explains further: he may not be a GC contender but it *is* the biggest race in the world. Apparently last year, because of uncertain race schedules, his preparation (no wait, don't move it to the doping forum just yet!) wasn't optimal; too many small races. And then he went and made the same mistake himself after the Tour: too many crits and other stuff, and his intended good Fall classics season didn't materialise.


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## moonmoth (Nov 8, 2008)

Latest speculative lineup, with Backstedt gone:

Van De Velde (lock)
Zabriskie (lock)
Millar (lock)
Wiggins (lock)
Dean (several hints floating around that he will be in the TdF)
Danielson (hey, he says it's on his schedule; it's his to lose now)
Hesjedal 

Leaving two wildcards open, one probably to Tuft.


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## moonmoth (Nov 8, 2008)

Latest speculative lineup, one month later, following Tyler Farrar's win at Tirreno-Adriatico:

Van De Velde (lock)
Zabriskie (lock)
Millar (lock)
Wiggins (lock)
Dean (several hints floating around that he will be in the TdF)
Danielson (still has some things to prove if he wants a spot)
Hesjedal
Farrar (Tirrno-Adriatico win among the giants; 'nuff said)

Leaving one wildcard open, probably to Tuft or Peterson.

Still lots of racing and injury potential, of course, before this shakes out in the next few months.


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## coop (Jun 8, 2008)

moonmoth said:


> Latest speculative lineup, one month later, following Tyler Farrar's win at Tirreno-Adriatico:
> 
> Van De Velde (lock)
> Zabriskie (lock)
> ...


 I'm still wondering if Garmin will even bring a sprinter to the tour this year. They've pretty much put it out there that it's all about the TTT, and to be honest with you I think that they'll have their hands full with that. If you bring a sprinter to the tour, you'd better bring someone that can lead him out. If Garmin does that then they sacrifice their TTT a bit. So given with what you started with, here's my way too early prediction

Vandevelde (lock)
Miller (lock)
Zabriskie (lock)
Hesjedal (lock), the other 5 slots are up for grabs, my picks in order of probability
Danielson (Missouri and a strong early season get him in)
Pate (good TT, and great domestique)
Wiggins (his TT is great, but I haven't seen anything else that looks good so far)
Martin (they said they want to bring him, but he's doing the Giro as well, so...)
Tuft (every team needs an enforcer)

Wild cards: Cozza, Peterson, Maaskant, Dean, Farrar, and maybe Sutton.


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## robdamanii (Feb 13, 2006)

moonmoth said:


> Latest speculative lineup, one month later, following Tyler Farrar's win at Tirreno-Adriatico:
> 
> Van De Velde (lock)
> Zabriskie (lock)
> ...


VDV
Zabriskie
Millar
Hesjedal
Farrar
Martin
Tuft
Dean
Wiggins


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## jorgy (Oct 21, 2005)

coop said:


> I'm still wondering if Garmin will even bring a sprinter to the tour this year. They've pretty much put it out there that it's all about the TTT, and to be honest with you I think that they'll have their hands full with that. If you bring a sprinter to the tour, you'd better bring someone that can lead him out.


Dean will be Farrar's lead-out guy. Dean is also an experienced Tour rider. If Tyler has the form, my guess is that we'll see them both on Garmin's Tour roster. Picking up a sprint stage would be huge for Garmin.

I see Millar possibly pulling himself off the roster. He wasn't any help last year, tumbled in the standings in Paris-Nice this year. He's a part owner of the team and I think he'll be smart enough to see he's mostly going to be dead weight.

Besides Farrara and Dean, I'll say

VDV
Z
Hesjedal
Wiggins
Tuft

Hmm: some combination of Martin, Maaskant, or Danielson


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## ultimobici (Jul 16, 2005)

coop said:


> I'm still wondering if Garmin will even bring a sprinter to the tour this year. They've pretty much put it out there that it's all about the TTT, and to be honest with you I think that they'll have their hands full with that. If you bring a sprinter to the tour, you'd better bring someone that can lead him out. If Garmin does that then they sacrifice their TTT a bit. So given with what you started with, here's my way too early prediction
> 
> Vandevelde (lock)
> Miller (lock)
> ...


Don't make me laugh!!


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## coop (Jun 8, 2008)

ultimobici said:


> Don't make me laugh!!



Say what you wantabout Danielson, but he seems to have found his role on Garmin as a valuable helper. No way Vandevelde wins Missouri last year if Danielson doesn't make that split. You could also say Zabriskie may have missed out on 2nd at California if Danielson doesn't make those splits and cover some other moves. Does he still have his GC fantasies? probably, but he seems to be riding for others quite well


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## coop (Jun 8, 2008)

jorgy said:


> Dean will be Farrar's lead-out guy. Dean is also an experienced Tour rider. If Tyler has the form, my guess is that we'll see them both on Garmin's Tour roster. Picking up a sprint stage would be huge for Garmin.
> 
> I see Millar possibly pulling himself off the roster. He wasn't any help last year, tumbled in the standings in Paris-Nice this year. He's a part owner of the team and I think he'll be smart enough to see he's mostly going to be dead weight.
> 
> ...



You're right about Miller under performing, but there is no way he pulls out of the tour unless he's hurt. He's changed his schedule to what he traditionally did to set up far the tour.
As far as Dean being lead out Farrar, that would be the ideal set up, but time will tell if Garmin is there for stage wins or a podium. My thought on that is that IMO Wiggins is a liabilty, other than the TTT I don't see him doing much more than getting dropped the second the road starts to elevate. Tuft is an unknown as far as 3 week races are. He's a monster on the flat, but who knows how he'll do in the hills and mountains. That's 5 riders that potentialy be around when the **** hits the fan, maybe 6 if Miller doesn't get some climbing legs real soon. Why am I stressing the hills and mountains so much, Garmin has said their strategy was to get as much time as possible in the TTT and ITT. If they somehow put VDV in yellow they're going to have to spend a lot of time controlling at the front, and while it's not the most difficult tour as far as the mountains go, they'd still better not have to sacrifice their few "climbers" on anything but the real mountains.


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## jorgy (Oct 21, 2005)

Eh, you're probably right about both Millar and Wiggins. I do seem to remember reading a recent interview with Wiggins where he explicitly said he was going to focus on road riding.

It may come down to how badly Garmin wants to win the TTT or have a shot at an ITT win.


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## moonmoth (Nov 8, 2008)

Latest speculative lineup, post-Giro:

Hesjedal (lock; purposefully kept out of Giro to rest up for the Tour)
Martin (lock; JV says he is in to compete for white jersey)
Farrar (lock, based on recent sprinting success)
Dean (lock; Farrar needs him)
Van De Velde (He's in, fer shure, if he can return from his Giro injury)
Wiggins (proved he can climb and can finish a Grand Tour)
Millar (says he is in)

Leaving two spots if VDV gets in:

Danielson: Plus: he finished a grand tour! Minus: Overweight and couldn't contend.
Zabriskie: Dismal Giro performance, especially in the ITT. Will he come around?

Outside looking in:
Pate: Has 3 Grand Tour finishes for Garmin in the last 13 months. Got dropped, however, in the Giro TTT. 
Lowe: Needs to show something in the Dauphine
Peterson: One of Garmin's best climbers but he also needs to have a stellar Dauphine
Frischkorn: Had that one good stage in last year's Tour but has been mostly MIA this year.


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## kbiker3111 (Nov 7, 2006)

I have to believe Pate makes it in before Danielson.

Z has so much Tour experience, its hard to leave him off.


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## dave2pvd (Oct 15, 2007)

Based on what we know now, it's hard to see any of Martin's teammates finishing higher than him on GC......


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## coop (Jun 8, 2008)

Resurecting the old thread. Based on VDV's finish today at Tour de Suisse, his GC ability is not only in question, but I'd have to say him even being at the tour may be in question. So what would Garmin do without VDV at the tour? The most obvious thing would to build something for Farrar. Unfortunately thay don't have that Hincapie like peloton driver to set up a good sprint. Other than Dean their sprinters are all young mostly unproven types, and Dean hasn't exactly shown very good form this year. So here goes my squad without VDV

Hesjedal
Farrar
Martin
Danielson
Wiggins
Millar
Zabriskie
Dean
Meatball (he's the closest thing to linebacker that Garmin has)


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## Qstick333 (Jul 21, 2004)

That is not a bad lineup - but what about Frischkorn? He almost won a stage last year, has already completed a TdF, absolutely has zero personal goals, team player etc...He would seem like the perfect domestique...


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## moonmoth (Nov 8, 2008)

Qstick333 said:


> That is not a bad lineup - but what about Frischkorn? He almost won a stage last year, has already completed a TdF, absolutely has zero personal goals, team player etc...He would seem like the perfect domestique...


If there is such a role on Garmin, I'd bet Duggan would get it over Frischkorn on the basis of his Dauphine finish today. Frischkorn hasn't shown much this year and he was a last minute rider #9 addition last year when he had much better results (e.g. Milan San Remo). 

If VDV can't get his form together, wow. I'd guess they'd hold him back for the Vuelta and ride for Martin in the Tour. They may ride for Farrar, perhaps, but remember that Garmin is a USA team and this is the only cycling race that the general USA audiences know. You know, the people who actually buy Garmin gear down at REI or Sports Authority. Contending for sprint wins at the Tour doesn't cut much with Americans.


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## pedalruns (Dec 18, 2002)

moonmoth said:


> If VDV can't get his form together, wow. I'd guess they'd hold him back for the Vuelta and ride for Martin in the Tour. They may ride for Farrar, perhaps, but remember that Garmin is a USA team and this is the only cycling race that the general USA audiences know. You know, the people who actually buy Garmin gear down at REI or Sports Authority. Contending for sprint wins at the Tour doesn't cut much with Americans.



Has anyone heard anything about VDV.... he sure doesn't seem good?? I agree would be bad for Garmin. 

But maybe after the Giro they will be more prepared for Tyler and trying for breakaway stage wins... they have been 2nd now a number of times on both... I know if VDV can't get his form up, I'd rather see him stay home and Garmin really go in with stage wins in mind via any means.... Any wins would be helpful at this point.


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## coop (Jun 8, 2008)

Without VDV the options are wide open. It seems the only sure bets are Farrar, Hesjedal, Wiggins, and Millar.

The Delta Zeeland tour was most likely on the schedule to try and fine tune the lead out train for Farrar. The coverage for that race was scarce, but it looks like Farrar was all alone on the last stage. I'd have to say Dean at this point doesn't have the ability to be there at the end of a stage. Pate, while a great domestique, has disappeared since the Criterium International.

The Dauphine was fun because they brought some of the younger guys out to play. Millar was impressive, but showed that he will never be able to compete on the big mountain stages. While Martin has a huge future, he has shown (in both DL and P-N) that at this moment he may not have the recovery ability to be a GC rider for a grand tour. I was sorry to see Cozza drop out, but what ever happened to Trent Lowe?

The Tour de Suisse is probably a make or break tryout for 6 of the 8 riders, the only ones not needing to prove anything being Hesjedal and Meyer(he's already done the Giro, too much for a young guy to do the TDF as well). Tommy D absolutely needs a good result to make the squad. VDV needs to prove that he's recovered enough to start and finish the tour. Sutton and Maaskant are trying out for the sprint leadout. Duyn and Frischkorn will be looking to get into some breaks or prove themselves as good domestiques to make the squad.

5 spots and about a dozen riders fighting for them, should be interesting.


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## moabbiker (Sep 11, 2002)

Zabriskie would just be dead weight for the team. Look at his Giro performance, completely off the back, literally, finishing with the sprinters on the climbs and TTs. Tommy D wasn't much better but he did put a strong effort towards the end to at least make him a viable domestique. I'd have him on the team before Zabriskie.


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## otoman (Mar 8, 2004)

Tommy D is the Great White Hype. What a disappointment. The Next Lance has turned into a no-name, head-case domestique


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## moonmoth (Nov 8, 2008)

moabbiker said:


> Zabriskie would just be dead weight for the team.


You're probably right but JV is obsessed with the TTT, and DZ could probably be of some value in such a stage. Even more so if VDV is out and Garmin has no legitimate GC hopes. In that case, they'd be starved for stage wins, especially like the TTT, while at the same time, putting some effort into getting Martin the white jersey.


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## Mootsie (Feb 4, 2004)

coop said:


> Resurecting the old thread. Based on VDV's finish today at Tour de Suisse, his GC ability is not only in question, but I'd have to say him even being at the tour may be in question. So what would Garmin do without VDV at the tour? The most obvious thing would to build something for Farrar. Unfortunately thay don't have that Hincapie like peloton driver to set up a good sprint. Other than Dean their sprinters are all young mostly unproven types, and Dean hasn't exactly shown very good form this year. So here goes my squad without VDV
> 
> Hesjedal
> Farrar
> ...


Pate will be there before Freidman will.


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## coop (Jun 8, 2008)

otoman said:


> Tommy D is the Great White Hype. What a disappointment. The Next Lance has turned into a no-name, head-case domestique



How original, did you come up with that on your own? Honestly the only people even mentioning Tommy D as a GC threat are his haters. 

That aside, he's actually not had a bad year for Garmin. Only one DNF by stomach issues. He was the best rider in the second half of the Giro for Garmin (not saying much). Comparing to Zabriskie, Millar, and Pate, he actually looked like he was trying NOT to be in the grupetto. I honestly think he's settled into his role as a solid domestique.

Without VDV, I think Garmin's GC rider (should they support one) would be Hesjedal. He TT's and climbs well, seems to be pretty instinctive, and has the grand tour experience that someone like Martin doesn't have.


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## stevesbike (Jun 3, 2002)

What's the line on whether Vaughters mentions the team time trial at the Tour as a focus?


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## coop (Jun 8, 2008)

moabbiker said:


> Zabriskie would just be dead weight for the team. Look at his Giro performance, completely off the back, literally, finishing with the sprinters on the climbs and TTs. Tommy D wasn't much better but he did put a strong effort towards the end to at least make him a viable domestique. I'd have him on the team before Zabriskie.



As much as a shamockery Garmin made of the Giro, Millar's performance in the Dauphine showed that it didn't mean squat. He was another rider that was finishing in the grupetto and then he goes and puts in a solid top 10. JV probably has his mind made up on 7 or 8 riders and everyone else is on a tryout. That's why Zabriskie, Millar, and Pate were chillin' at the back just putting in the miles. Kind of piss-poor, but probably the way it is.


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## JSR (Feb 27, 2006)

moonmoth said:


> ... but remember that Garmin is a USA team and this is the only cycling race that the general USA audiences know. You know, the people who actually buy Garmin gear down at REI or Sports Authority. Contending for sprint wins at the Tour doesn't cut much with Americans.


FWIW - Garmin's sponsorship of cycling is supposed to be in support of their push into the main European markets. IMHO that would tend to support the strategy of going for stage wins.

JSR


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## Einstruzende (Jun 1, 2004)

I'd guess that prior TdF experience means a lot, and I'd bet 8/9 riders that make the squad will meet the prior experience criteria. Danielson might finally make it to the big dance, but just barely. He certainly didn't do anything at the Grio, but it was more than Zabriskie (and DZ will easily make the Tour squad if he's healthy).


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## traumabill (Sep 16, 2007)

JV has let six out of the bag..

VDV,
Millar,
Hesjedal,
Martin,
Dean,
Farrar.

Meatball BTW is doing the Longsjo in Mass first week of July...


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## coop (Jun 8, 2008)

traumabill said:


> JV has let six out of the bag..
> 
> VDV,
> Millar,
> ...


I really shouldn't be suprised by Dean's inclusion, and yet I am. He just hasn't been that good this year. Hopefully he and Farrar have worked on the lead out and can get something done.


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## RoadCyclingNZ (Mar 3, 2009)

We've had confirmation from Julian Dean that he got the official Tour de France call up this morning. I bit tough to say he hasn't been that good this year, he crashed and was injured and came back to race the Giro with zero racing in the prior month. I think he did amazingly considering that. He says he's in the same form right now as the best of his other 5 TdF starts.


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## moonmoth (Nov 8, 2008)

Yeah, JV said today that he's got six locks and three yet-to-be-determined.

The locks, I'm guessing:

Farrar
Hesjdal
Dean (lead-out man for Farrar)
Millar
CVV
Martin

Wilcards could be any of these guys, no specific order:

Zabriskie
Wiggins
Danielson
Pate
Frischkorn (said today he is a very long shot)
Meyer
Lowe
Maaskant
Peterson


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## kbiker3111 (Nov 7, 2006)

This is what I think they will do, not necessarily who I think they should bring.

Locks:
Farrar
Dean
CVV
Millar
Z
Wiggins
(Surprised CVV is a lock, but thats what CN is saying http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/vaughters-downplays-contador-rumours)

Which leaves three:
Hesjdal
Martin
Pate, over Danielson

I'd really like to see Frischkorn, Maaskant and Tuft on there, but its unlikely. Also, I'd like to see Danielson on there just so we could end any discussion of what he's capable of, but since he's already proved what he's capable of I doubt he's getting in.


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## traumabill (Sep 16, 2007)

Looks like the last three are Pate, Wiggins and Zabriskie according to JV's twitter..


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## ProRoad (Oct 13, 2008)

Done deal:
Julian Dean
Tyler Farrar
Ryder Hesjedal
Dan Martin
David Millar
Danny Pate
Christian Vande Velde
Bradley Wiggins
David Zabriskie


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## robdamanii (Feb 13, 2006)

robdamanii said:


> VDV
> Zabriskie
> Millar
> Hesjedal
> ...


8 for 9. Surprised they went with Pate as their 9th.


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## mtbbmet (Apr 2, 2005)

I got 7 of the 9.
Not bad.
Missed Martin and Dean, surprised by Dean's selection.
Also a bit surprised by Martin, I thought JV would save him for a year or two and get him to ride a Giro/Vuelta a couple of times before throwing him to the wolves at the Tour. Glad to see no TommyD listed there. That guy will go his entire career without riding the Tour.


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## Mootsie (Feb 4, 2004)

Turn out the lights, the party's over for TD. He'll be riding Tuesday night crits for Boulder Brick Company next year.  
To be on the preseason tour list two years in a row and lose it due to your own lack of performance is completely unacceptable. He even had JV as his coach this year.


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## moonmoth (Nov 8, 2008)

mtbbmet said:


> Glad to see no TommyD listed there. That guy will go his entire career without riding the Tour.


I think you're going to end up being correct about that! I can't see him wanting to return to Garmin after this year, assuming he even gets an offer, but at the same time, what other ProTour team would take him for 2010?

Still, TD showed better in the Giro than DZ or Pate, so that's kind of curious. We don't really know, however, if the Garmin race directors told Zabriskie and Pate to simply dog the Giro and save their legs.

No doubt TD and the rest of the Garmin scrubs will be suiting up for the Vuelta. Kind of like getting an NIT college basketball invite after missing out on the NCAA's.


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## dagger (Jul 22, 2004)

*Pate has to be in*

He has had some good results


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## Einstruzende (Jun 1, 2004)

robdamanii said:


> 8 for 9. Surprised they went with Pate as their 9th.


I think I should get credit for 9/9, as I said that 8/9 would have prior TdF experience, and that Zabriskie is 100% one of those guys, plus the token new rider.

At any rate, the squad will be rather anonymous this year, just like at the Giro.


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## moonmoth (Nov 8, 2008)

dagger said:


> He has had some good results


I'm not arguing but Pate got dropped in the Giro TTT and was consistently finishing in the last place group there. On the plus side, he did challenge Voight for the Criterium Internationale this year and has finished three grand tours for Garmin which is the most on that team. Anything else notable this year?

I'm guessing he got selected for stability and grand tour experience.


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## PJay (May 28, 2004)

*go martin! my white jersey vote.*

go martin! my white jersey vote.


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## coop (Jun 8, 2008)

And out of the wood work come the Tommy D haters. All in all the guy hasn't had a bad year, could have been a useful domestique. I think I'm more suprised that Maaskant was listed as the alternate over him. So does TD even finish off the year in argyle, or will he be a mid season transfer? No way he's riding for Garmin next year.


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## dave2pvd (Oct 15, 2007)

mtbbmet said:


> Also a bit surprised by Martin, I thought JV would save him for a year or two and get him to ride a Giro/Vuelta a couple of times before throwing him to the wolves at the Tour.


Not sure that the Tour is harder than the Giro or the Vuelta. All are 3 weeks, long distance, very fast, highly competitive, oh, almost forgot: big big mountains.


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## moonmoth (Nov 8, 2008)

coop said:


> And out of the wood work come the Tommy D haters. All in all the guy hasn't had a bad year, could have been a useful domestique. I think I'm more suprised that Maaskant was listed as the alternate over him. So does TD even finish off the year in argyle, or will he be a mid season transfer? No way he's riding for Garmin next year.


He'll finish Garmin either at the Vuelta or Missouri. Then, I'm supposing like you do, that he'll be "looking for other opportunities".

You're right -- he didn't have a bad year so far. Only one DNF due to illness. I'm wondering if he was expected to show something in California, the Tour de Suisse, or one of the hillier Giro stages, and just couldn't do it?


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## coop (Jun 8, 2008)

moonmoth said:


> He'll finish Garmin either at the Vuelta or Missouri. Then, I'm supposing like you do, that he'll be "looking for other opportunities".
> 
> You're right -- he didn't have a bad year so far. Only one DNF due to illness. I'm wondering if he was expected to show something in California, the Tour de Suisse, or one of the hillier Giro stages, and just couldn't do it?


If he was supposed to show something, the bar must've been set high. Top 10 at California, top 25 at Tour de Suisse, and the Giro...well who at Garmin showed anything other than Farrar (1 week of Wiggins climbing doesn't count).


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## moonmoth (Nov 8, 2008)

coop said:


> If he was supposed to show something, the bar must've been set high. Top 10 at California, top 25 at Tour de Suisse, and the Giro...well who at Garmin showed anything other than Farrar (1 week of Wiggins climbing doesn't count).


Right but I'm guessing that TD was on-the-hook to produce some results at the Giro, while the others were not. The opportunity was there: there was no team leader to work for, there would have been little attention paid to him, and there were plenty of climbing stages to pick from. 

You could tell in a post-Giro interview that he was doubting his Tour chances already.


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## traumabill (Sep 16, 2007)

Might have been the stage where Wiggins and TD went with an early break, and they both had to drop back...it's interesting for sure based on his results and those of others that made it...


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## Mootsie (Feb 4, 2004)

The other guys that made it all fit specific roles. There is one spot for a climber/domestique. It was down to Danny or Tommy. Danny takes it because he has a chance at the white jersey.


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## coop (Jun 8, 2008)

Mootsie said:


> The other guys that made it all fit specific roles. There is one spot for a climber/domestique. It was down to Danny or Tommy. Danny takes it because he has a chance at the white jersey.



JV pretty much said the same thing in his cycling news interview, except he's expecting a lot from D. Martin. That kid has a bright future and I hope he shows his mettle. He's shown some durability issues a little this year to go with his great finishes. Let's see if can hold together for a grand tour.


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## moonmoth (Nov 8, 2008)

coop said:


> JV pretty much said the same thing in his cycling news interview, except he's expecting a lot from D. Martin. That kid has a bright future and I hope he shows his mettle. He's shown some durability issues a little this year to go with his great finishes. Let's see if can hold together for a grand tour.


Just announced: Martin is out of the Tour, due to tendonitis. Maaskant is in.


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## dave2pvd (Oct 15, 2007)

moonmoth said:
 

> Just announced: Martin is out of the Tour, due to tendonitis. Maaskant is in.


Bummer. I was hoping to see him take a mountain stage.


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