# Do cantis suck enough to justify finding a disc cyclocross for commuting?



## CoastieTX (Oct 23, 2009)

My search for a fast commuter with room for fenders and fatter tires would be *so much easier* if I knew I'd be happy with any of the widely available canti-equipped cyclocross bikes. The only thing holding me back are the brakes...

All I hear about is...how much they suck, and the chattering problems, adjustment difficulties, etc. The bikes using medium/long reach calipers are still limited to a 28c tire with fenders.

I live in the Pacific Northwest so the bike will certainly be ridden in the rain and wet. A lot. I can understand cantis are probably good enough for racing, but as a non-racer, would you still be happy with them for every day riding and commuting?


----------



## CleavesF (Dec 31, 2007)

If you keep adjusting them, eventually they will stop squealing. 

Cantis are good for anything you plan to do. I commute on my CX bike with cantis.


----------



## jroden (Jun 15, 2004)

they are ok. One option that is a lot less intrusive than disc brakes are the tektro mini v brakes, great stopping power and very nice action. They are not the greatest for cross but would be excellent for your purposes, plus they are quite cheap--I highly recommend them


----------



## clydeone (Oct 25, 2011)

CleavesF said:


> If you keep adjusting them, eventually they will stop squealing.
> 
> Cantis are good for anything you plan to do. I commute on my CX bike with cantis.


+1


Done it for 6 years don't understand the issue - do they squeal? sometimes 
Do disc brakes squeal? sometimes especially in the rain or snow

Do they shudder? sometimes

Do they stop you? Yes


----------



## 196nautique (Sep 23, 2005)

Canti's are okay, but in rain, disc brakes are about a million times better. I weigh 200 lbs, and if I lived in the city and commuted in the rain with traffic with any hills to speak of, it would be disc brakes for sure!

Nothing scarier than grabbing a handful of brakes, and the wheel not even slowing down.


----------



## c-lo (Sep 30, 2008)

I like the mini v-brake option. if you aren't using the bike for muddy conditions...you'd probably really like them.


----------



## atpjunkie (Mar 23, 2002)

*10 plus years of commuting*

on cxers and never have I needed more brakes
find a bike shop with a mechanic over 35 years old
have him set your brakes up


----------



## GRAVELBIKE (Sep 16, 2011)

My preference (most- to least-favorite):

Discs
V-brakes
Cantis

Note that I do not race cross. I do, however, commute and ride off-road in both dry and wet/snowy weather.


----------



## PoorCyclist (Oct 14, 2010)

I put koolstop pads and they stop really well, I don't miss caliper brakes at all. It did take a little time for the pad to bed in with the rim.
They are fine for me both commuting and riding fast in a group. In the wet just brake a little sooner like you would with other brakes too.

I remember mountain bikes used to come with them (I was so envious), I did many stoppies and skids!
So no I don't think canti's suck, disc commuter would be ideal but number of bike choices diminish greatly if that was the only criteria.


----------



## AndrwSwitch (May 28, 2009)

I bought a Trek Portland from a friend recently. I was already starting to think I wanted discs after I noticed I was already chewing through a wheel I built two years ago, now that I have saddle time on a road bike with disc brakes - wow. I'm in Seattle, so that's what I was inflicting on the last bike.

The Portland, btw, has room for at least a 28mm tire and fenders. Getting both a conventional rack and fenders onto mine was a little bit of a pain because of the way the seatstays and dropouts are shaped and the placement of the eyelets, but I got it done.

Personally, I don't believe in really fat tires for commuting, at least around Seattle. 25mm is enough for what I'm doing lately. I might want to go up to 28 in the rear if I started doing laden panniers a lot.

Outside of situations in which I don't get to choose, I'd take dual-pivot sidepulls over cantilevers.


----------



## RkFast (Dec 11, 2004)

Discs are on their way to cx and road. They should improve performance. But lots of people think that their days of brake headaches are gone.

They are gonna be _really _disappointed.


----------



## Peter P. (Dec 30, 2006)

Cantilevers have plenty of stopping power; they were fine when ATBs were introduced to the market in the 80's, and have been a mainstay of touring bikes for decades.

The only reason the old style cantilevers are considered a "necessity" on 'cross bikes is the pads open wider for mud clearance, en essential in racing.

For commuting, mud clearance isn't an issue; the squealing is the only issue left.

There's no reason you can't swap out cantilevers for V-brakes of any length and cure the squealing and have adequate braking power. You may need to add Travel Agents in line to provide sufficient cable pull with road levers, but that's it. Disc brakes are hardly necessary, but just another option.

Heck; you could do what Lennard Zinn did and replace ONLY the front cantilever with a V-brake, since only the front brake is subject to squealing anyway.


----------



## veloduffer (Aug 26, 2004)

Mini v-brakes are your answer - great stopping power, super easy to set up and low tech. Tektro makes a few models at different price points - they all work well and as inexpensive as cantilevers. Disc brakes are terrific but there are fewer options available today.


----------



## spacemanrides (Aug 11, 2006)

I live in the pacNW and I just built a commuting/pit bike with disks. The issues I have using canti's for commuting are as follows; 1) if you are riding everyday pads wear down fast and I am changing pads often. 2) I get lazy and don't change/adjust pads and have to do the Fred Flintstone as I approach a red light. If I approach a light on a hill in this situation I end up blowing through the light. 3) the black brake crap that covers your bike from braking in the wet. 4) rim wear, riding in the rain everyday forces me to replace rims every few yrs
Draw backs; weight! I have this bike built up pretty nice and it is heavy. 
If you have a flat commute, I may consider cantilevers, but if not get disks


----------



## tiflow_21 (Nov 21, 2005)

Discs are superior in basically every braking situation. If I were buying a new cross bike or a bike that will see wet/inclement weather I'd ensure it had disc brakes. Sure, you can get away with just about any brake, but if you have the choice go disc. 

I'm holding out on buying a new cross racing bike until more disc options are available. I've been riding a disc la cruz for 3+ years now in all kinds of weather including snow/rain/ice/etc. There were many times I would've had MUCH less control if I didn't have discs.


----------



## donttazmebro (Dec 26, 2007)

There is 0 reason to buy a non-disc brake commuter. Every argument against disc brakes has been about the extra weight. On a commuter you aren't going to feel an extra 0.5lbs

my steel frame commuter weights 22lbs with BB7's

Discs are superior in every way except weight for riding here in the pacNW

The number of times ive changed pads in rainy seattle weather with canti's; Once a week with steady rain

The number of times ive changed my disc brake bb7; 0 times over the last year of 22miles a day 4 days a week rain or shine


----------



## AndrwSwitch (May 28, 2009)

While I'm a disc fan myself, I think there are a couple other problems that are worth mentioning.
-They're a little more expensive.
-Finding the right wheels is sometimes harder. They're not a high-volume item, so finding them at a discount is trickier.
-Getting a rack and fenders on was harder on my bike, and is even more problematic if the caliper is mounted on the seatstay. Different companies address it different ways, I'm sure with varying degrees of success.
All these problems are solvable, one way or another. But I think it's good to be aware of them.


----------



## moschika (Feb 1, 2004)

You'll be fine. As others have said, squeeling may or may not occur but they will definitely stop you. My cantos stop my 200#s on my cx bike on muddy trails just fine. Commuting in bad weather should no problem whatsoever. I've never had a problem with modern dual-pivot brakes on rainy road rides for what it's worth.


----------



## kmancrx (Aug 16, 2008)

Peter P. said:


> Heck; you could do what Lennard Zinn did and replace ONLY the front cantilever with a V-brake, since only the front brake is subject to squealing anyway.


That's my set up for my geared Redline. I love the added power of the mini V up front (where most of your braking power comes from). I race here in the dirrty south and there is a bunch of mud/clay. Caking hasn't really been an issue even though there is only a couple of mm of clearance with the rim. The ability to brake later into the corners is great. I suppose if I needed more clearance I could use travel agents but so far it has been fine. It makes you keep your wheels nice and true as well. Oh and the price of the Tektros was great. $20

On my SS cx I have discs. BB5s with Tektro long pull levers. Love em. I commute on this bike as well and they performed flawlessly with all of the rain that we have been getting the past 3 days. I noticed no difference in stopping power between wet and dry.


----------



## GeoKrpan (Feb 3, 2008)

I just built my first disk brake CX bike.
Disks really are so much better.
No more brake dust!
No wobbles no matter how out of true the wheel, no grabbing or squealing when wheels are wet.
Pads and rims last so much longer.
I'm finding I'm riding faster because I'm more confident.
I just saw a set, front & rear, of new Shimano R505 road disks on Ebay for less than $50.


----------



## cs1 (Sep 16, 2003)

*Setup*



atpjunkie said:


> on cxers and never have I needed more brakes
> find a bike shop with a mechanic over 35 years old
> have him set your brakes up


 That reminds me of the last time I went to the LBS and the young guy working didn't know what thumb shifters were. He asked the service manager who's 54. Needless to say the manager just shook his head.


----------



## MShaw (Jun 7, 2003)

cs1 said:


> That reminds me of the last time I went to the LBS and the young guy working didn't know what thumb shifters were. He asked the service manager who's 54. Needless to say the manager just shook his head.


Thank doG for Paul's Thumbies! I'm still running thumb shifters on my mtn bike. I like the 'limp home in friction' option it gives me.

Oh, and changing the # of gears in the back is as easy as finding a Xsp barcon! I figure I can go from 6 to 11 depending on what bar-con I'm using on my Thumbie.

AFA the OP: for a commuter I'd recommend discs. For racing? Cantis 

HTH

M


----------



## WA/SScrossracer (Oct 4, 2010)

I don't have a disc cross bike, but if I was starting from scratch in western Washington state and was commuting most days it would be a no-brainer. Even if the performance and wet braking advantages were not as much better then they are- the easier lower maintnence and not having to replace wheels every 2 or so years(especially for the rear-from brake track wear) is enough to justify the slight added expense and the extra weight. Though for me I already have a Surly cross check with paul brakes and fairly nice parts and can usually find replacement wheels for not too much if I need them, oh and extra brakes pads. The Raliegh disc brake bike is nice as is the Salsa-though I like the older La Cruz better then the newer Vaya, but the soma double cross disc is one of the nicer more affordable options.


----------



## Bozworth (Nov 23, 2011)

It seems like everyone has a different opinion about this, but the trend is going towards disc brakes. I'm not going to use my bike for commuting so it makes it a bit of a tough decision. I like the idea of beefy disc brakes and the looks.


----------



## m_s (Nov 20, 2007)

I probably wouldn't buy a new cross bike without discs, but I'm holding out for good deals on *used *canti wheels and frames. Also I keep my bikes for a while. 

Dics are coming!


----------



## Winters (Dec 4, 2011)

Swapped in V brakes with really good wet weather brake pads ..... Works fine for me, but I don't use fenders. .......


----------



## seat_boy (Dec 24, 2006)

After dealing with mechanical disc brakes for quite a while (on my drop bar Fargo and various mountain bikes), I really appreciate the V brakes I recently installed on my Crosscheck. They're quieter, seem to hold their adjustment better, and stop strongly. What more do you need?

Then again, my bias is that bike technology peaked in the late 90s (V brakes, 8 speed, and normal threadless headsets), and has rapidly gotten too weird since... except for 29ers.


----------



## thighmaster (Feb 2, 2006)

You can't lock up your brake with canti's you need a little muscle. If you brake more than that, you need a new sport.


----------



## Curly59 (Dec 13, 2011)

Funny, I was thinking the same thing. I have discs on a mtn bike, like them and the look. Have cantis on a new Giant TCX and can put myself over the bar if I squeeze enough. I rarely ride in mud, however, the TCX was bought as a road bike to also ride on fire roads, boardwalks, and in sandy arears near the beach. 

Still want the new TRP CX 8.4s. Nope, dont need them, just want them. That and some Salmons, and I can wait a few years for discs to be perfected for road levers.

Curly59


----------



## harrypy (Dec 30, 2011)

*Motobecane Fantom Cross Team Ti with discs and fenders*

I just put together a Motobecane Fantom Cross Team Ti and rode it with the stock canti brakes the first day on my Mercer Island training loop. I only rode about 20 miles because it started to rain (imagine that in Seattle). The cantis worked about as well as the calipers on my road bike both dry and wet. 

But the plan all along was to swap to disc since the bike (which I'm going to use for commuting and not cx) is set up to take them and a buddy of mine convinced me I really should go that route. I got a pair of Avid BB7's with 160 rotors from the jungle for a good price and put them on for the second (28 mile) MI ride the next day. I must say I really like the feel and control of the discs significantly better even though they added a couple of pounds. 

The Moto took a set of SKS P65 fenders with only a little creative bending of one support spoke on each of front and back to clear the caliper. The whole kit including tool bag with spare tube and tools now weighs about 25 lbs and first impressions are that it is a sweet ride and I'll probably do a lot of my general riding on it.


----------



## bmn (Jul 4, 2011)

harrypy said:


> The whole kit including tool bag with spare tube and tools now weighs about 25 lbs and first impressions are that it is a sweet ride and I'll probably do a lot of my general riding on it.


25lbs is huge for such a bike.

My MTB has **hydraulic** disc brakes and **suspended** fork and it's aluminum.
It's 25.5lbs. Also it costs a fraction of your bike and came stock!

I'm wondering what was the stock weight (they claim 17.1lbs on BD) and if that's true, how you got it so heavy


----------



## Guest (Jan 8, 2012)

bmn said:


> 25lbs is huge for such a bike.
> 
> My MTB has **hydraulic** disc brakes and **suspended** fork and it's aluminum.
> It's 25.5lbs. Also it costs a fraction of your bike and came stock!


stuff like racks, bags, tools, spare tubes, fenders, serious lights (ie ones capable of producing hundreds of lumens for at least a few hours, enough to see the road with at night) etc can easily add up to several pounds over the weight of a stock bike. Although a 6lb gain does sound pretty high for tools and accessories (assuming stock at 17 + 2ish pounds for disc brake hardware). 

I could buy that if the poster was including the weight of full water bottles and cages in that total (1.5L of water, bottles, and cages is almost 4lb when full) -- 2-3 lbs for racks, fenders, tools etc. doesn't sound outrageous at all.


----------



## bmn (Jul 4, 2011)

yeah that's why i ask, if he has 2x bottles and tons of stuff its ok, but, that sounds like a lot.

by the way, i'll complain about the big lights people put on bikes. they're always pointed up and blind everyone. pedestrians, cycles, and even car drivers.

if you use such a powerful light please point it to the ground in urban areas


----------



## harrypy (Dec 30, 2011)

I wasn't OCD about the weight so wasn't super careful in measurements. Going with Ti was not primarily because of weight considerations. 

Assembled out of the box but with the addition of the PD-A530 pedals it weighed about 20.5 lbs (using a Withings electronic bathroom scale and differential between me alone and me holding the bike). I have a hunch the Moto stated weight might be without tires  The carbon fork looks pretty beefy to me so I doubt it is all that light. And the frame is quite beefy as well so not aimed at being a minimal weight road bike.

The canti components I removed weighed 364 grams (on a kitchen electronic scale) and SRAM specs the BB7 + 160 mm rotor and mount adapter at 329 (but I didn't bother to measure it). So switching to the discs should have added 2/3 of a pound plus the weight of a couple more feet of Jagwire cable and jacket to go the extra distance.

The tool pack with the stuff you typically want with you weighs about 1-3/4 pounds and the seat is a heavier Specialized that is comfortable for me. No water bottles in this weight but there is a strap-on bell, standard wb holder, and small tire pump. In the end it is close to the same weight as my similarly loaded GT Series One aluminum road bike with 700x23 tires. And it is just as much fun to ride which is what counts after all.


----------



## harrypy (Dec 30, 2011)

I definitely agree about the lights. More and more I'm seeing blinding LED lights pointed straight out that are just painful and I think reducing safety rather than improving it. 

We recently got some Axiom 3-LED lights you can strap to your handle bar or your helmet and set to dim, bright, fast or slow flash. They aren't bright enough to really light up the street in the dark but very effective at letting cars know where you are without being blinding. I think something like that is safer than blinding lights pointed at eye level.


----------



## Guest (Jan 9, 2012)

bmn said:


> yeah that's why i ask, if he has 2x bottles and tons of stuff its ok, but, that sounds like a lot.
> 
> by the way, i'll complain about the big lights people put on bikes. they're always pointed up and blind everyone. pedestrians, cycles, and even car drivers.
> 
> if you use such a powerful light please point it to the ground in urban areas


This is a pet peeve of mine as well. Most of the really powerful bike lights for sale are marketed for MTB/offroad use only -- likely as a legal CYA move in case someone blinds the crap out of a driver and causes a wreck. 

On my bike I actually designed and built custom lights for the front with an asymmetric beam pattern which cuts off most of the light going above-horizontal, and spreads out the light horizontally on the road-surface -- basically a vehicle headlight beam pattern. I also use LEDs which are more warm white/similar in appearance to tungsten filaments, rather than the very cold white LEDs sold in most commercial lights which are both more glaring, and less effective at actually seeing the road with.

In the case of my rear lights, I use an indirect lighting setup where I have very intense red LEDs aimed at a large faceted reflector attached to my seatpost rails (a piece of plastic fluorescent panel diffuser back-coated with aluminum foil tape). Instead of all the light appearing to come from a glaring point-source, it's emitted from a large extended area similar to a vehicle tail-light though its intensity is more comparable to a car with brake lights on. 


It's unfortunate there are no affordable bicycle headlights that have a similar beam profile characteristics as DOT approved vehicle headlights -- which are carefully designed NOT to be glaring.


----------



## GRAVELBIKE (Sep 16, 2011)

PhotonFreak said:


> It's unfortunate there are no affordable bicycle headlights that have a similar beam profile characteristics as DOT approved vehicle headlights -- which are carefully designed NOT to be glaring.


Many of the European headlights have a "cut off" on the beam that reduces glare, etc. My B&M IQ Cyo R being one such light.


----------



## tarwheel2 (Jul 7, 2005)

I've got two commuter bikes with canti brakes. They both stop great and rarely ever squeal. If they squeal, it's because the rims are dirty and that can happen with disc brakes too. Canti brakes (or calipers) work much better with good pads such as KoolStop salmons. If you have problems with canti brakes, you need to change the pads, find a new mechanic or learn to work on them yourself.

That said, we don't get too much extended rainy weather in NC. If I lived in a place where it rained all the time, I would at least give disc brakes a look. I like cantis because I can swap wheels with my other road bikes, they allow clearance for larger tires and have more stopping power than calipers.


----------

