# DT Revolution vs. DT Competitions



## Chonut (Mar 29, 2005)

I'm looking at buying a new wheel through BWW. I've pretty much settled on:

Mavic Open Pro 32/32
Dura Ace Hubs
Alloy Nipples

For the spokes, I'm wondering if the DT Revolutions will cause me headaches in the future vs. the DT Comps (15/16). Will the Revs result in a weaker wheel or just a flexier wheel? For reference, I'm around 185lbs. and I'm pretty light on equipment. Having said that, my Mavis Ksyrium Elite rear wheel keeps going out of true on me. I'm assuming that with either spoke, I'm still getting a more durable wheel than the Ksyriums.

Thanks for you input.


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## djg21 (Oct 25, 2003)

Stick with the 15/16s. Less of a hassle, and if you ever need to replace a spoke, regular DB spokes are easier to come by.


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## Mike T. (Feb 3, 2004)

I have those same wheels from BWW and you'll love 'em. Mine have 14/15g (2.0/1.8) Comps but I was 200lbs at the time and I won't risk a wheel for a minor few grams on spokes. They're on my dirt road bike and take some hammer on the gravel and washboard sections.
I'm now 175 (Yaaay!) and if I had to do it over again I would probably go with the lighter gauge Comps (15/16 or 1.8/1.6mm). I did with my BWW mtb wheels and they're fine.
But BWW are the best judge of what's best for you. Talk to 'em!


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## cmg (Oct 27, 2004)

Revolutions spaced 3x will be strong enough, shouldn't go out of true. They haven't on me and i'm heavier. never broke a spoke. Use them on the front and non-drive side of the rear, use competitions or DB14 on the drive side. have had several sets built this way, as long as the builder takes his time and stresses the spokes after a tensioning. where they get in a problem is where the machine or human doesn't stress after each tensioning. if you want slightly lighter use Velocity aerohead rims with an OCR rear. had a set that used thinner spokes built by Mike Garcia, odds and endos that was rock solid.


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## rmsmith (Feb 15, 2007)

I like the Revolutions too, but I prefer brass nipples.

Front: 32-spoke w/ 3-cross (revolution).
Rear: 36-spoke w/ 3-cross (revolution-nds/alpine3-ds).


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## jmlapoint (Sep 4, 2008)

Revolutions with Brass Nipples.
Dura-Ace Hubs.
Velocity Aerohead Rims.


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## eddie m (Jul 6, 2002)

I avoid the DT Revolutions. It is too hard to tension them without twisting them nearly to failure. IIFC there is even a DT warning about that. 1.8/1.6 mm double butted are about as light, just as strong, easier to build with and cheaper. 

em


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## wankski (Jul 24, 2005)

1.8 dt comps? how is that better than the 2.0 revolutions? at least they have a thicker J bend which is where any spoke is likely to go... is a 1.6mm middle much less twist resistant in practice than 1.5?

over stating much? I'm assuming BWW know what they are doing, so revos should pose little problem... I personally would always go dt comp (2.0) on the DS though...

if you really care, dt super comp also makes a great more stiff and less twisty alternative to revo...


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## eddie m (Jul 6, 2002)

wankski said:


> 1.8 dt comps? how is that better than the 2.0 revolutions? at least they have a thicker J bend which is where any spoke is likely to go... is a 1.6mm middle much less twist resistant in practice than 1.5?
> .


A 1.6 mm wire resists twist about 22% better than a 1.5 mm wire (that's proportional to the fourth power of the diameter), and 2 mm threads cause 11% more twisting force than 1.8 mm threads. It multiplies out to about 35% better twist resistance for the 1.8 mm DB spoke compared to a Revo. A straight gauge 2mm spoke resists twist more than twice as well as a Revo, which is why you see them on all but the most expensive wheels.
Properly tensioned and stress relieved spokes rarely break at the elbow or anywhere else, regardless of gauge. The thicker elbow of the Revo doesn't add anything, but the extreme swaging adds the possibility of a torsional failure of the narrow section. 
A Wheelsmith DB15 (1.8/1.6/1.8mm) is the same weight as a Revo, cheaper, just as strong and easier to build. 

em


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## cpark (Oct 13, 2004)

IMO, Revo front and 14/15 rear.


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## eddie m (Jul 6, 2002)

cpark said:


> IMO, Revo front and 14/15 rear.


Why lighter spokes on the front? why not lighter spokes on the rear non-drive side?

em


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## Mike T. (Feb 3, 2004)

eddie m said:


> Why lighter spokes on the front?


I've always wondered why. When I'm outta the saddle, sprinting up a hill and most of my weight is over the front wheel I don't want a wheel getting all whippy on me. Or worse.


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## acid_rider (Nov 23, 2004)

i was recommended DT Comp + brass nipples by two experts who's opinion I trust.


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## cpark (Oct 13, 2004)

eddie m said:


> Why lighter spokes on the front? why not lighter spokes on the rear non-drive side?
> 
> em


Lighter weight plus better aerodynamics. 
I tried the Revo spoke both front and back and I always had some issue on the rear but never front.


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## 11.4 (Mar 2, 2008)

Everyone has different needs and experiences. A 200+ pound rider can easily ride a 28-spoke wheel with Revs all around and alloy nipples if the weather is good and he's mostly riding upright in a straight line and not too aggressively. If he's laying over in corners hard, or sprinting hard, or just rides roughly, it's a different matter. Sprinting on the track, a pair 36-hole 3-cross DT champion Ambrosio Nemesis wheels on high flange hubs can feel a bit floppy compared to a Mavic Comete disc. It's hard to judge what you can use best -- for each rider it's a matter of finding the wheel that works for you. You can always overbuild -- that's a given -- and it doesn't necessarily cost you much. To go to DT Comps from Revs is not a big handicap, considering that you aren't building a set of $2500 ultra-bling carbon wheels anyway. And that much spoke weight or spoke diameter isn't going to cost you a Thursday evening local crit -- in fact, any slight increase in sturdiness will encourage you to ride harder and feel safer. Honestly, you can choose a light wheel and see if it works for you, or you can overbuild slightly and not worry. Either is an acceptable choice.


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## cpark (Oct 13, 2004)

11.4 said:


> Everyone has different needs and experiences. A 200+ pound rider can easily ride a 28-spoke wheel with Revs all around and alloy nipples if the weather is good and he's mostly riding upright in a straight line and not too aggressively. If he's laying over in corners hard, or sprinting hard, or just rides roughly, it's a different matter. Sprinting on the track, a pair 36-hole 3-cross DT champion Ambrosio Nemesis wheels on high flange hubs can feel a bit floppy compared to a Mavic Comete disc. It's hard to judge what you can use best -- for each rider it's a matter of finding the wheel that works for you. You can always overbuild -- that's a given -- and it doesn't necessarily cost you much. To go to DT Comps from Revs is not a big handicap, considering that you aren't building a set of $2500 ultra-bling carbon wheels anyway. And that much spoke weight or spoke diameter isn't going to cost you a Thursday evening local crit -- in fact, any slight increase in sturdiness will encourage you to ride harder and feel safer. Honestly, you can choose a light wheel and see if it works for you, or you can overbuild slightly and not worry. Either is an acceptable choice.



100% agree.
Also the types of hubs/flange make some difference as well.
At 175 to 185 lbs, 28 Revo w/alloy nipples front and 32 14/15 w/brass nipples work best for my weight and the riding style.


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## eddie m (Jul 6, 2002)

cpark said:


> Lighter weight plus better aerodynamics.
> I tried the Revo spoke both front and back and I always had some issue on the rear but never front.


What issues have you had? why do you believe you need a heavier spoke on the rear wheel?

em


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## bigreen505 (Jun 10, 2007)

FWIW, I have never used Revos on road wheels, but have on a couple sets of MTB wheels and never had a problem with any of them, and believe me when I say I have neither grace or skills in the dirt. I do have/had a couple sets of 32 and 36 spoke wheels from back in the day built with 15/16 DT competition spokes. The 36 spoke wheels have been trued several times, but are still in use (build quality on them sucks).

I had a set of 32 spoke 15-16 wheels that I sold a while back. They were build by Colorado Cyclist. They held true reasonably well, but before I sold them several spokes on the non-drive side on the rear started to go loose and would flop around under load. I don't think those wheels were a real high quality build either.

I'm not by any means suggesting that 15-16 are too week, but rather that I have spent a lot of time abusing Revos and they have held up superbly. If I was trying to build a set of wheels on a budget, I would run at 28 hole front with Revos and aluminum spokes and a 32 hole rear with Revo/aluminum/nds and 14-15/brass/ds.


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## cpark (Oct 13, 2004)

eddie m said:


> What issues have you had? why do you believe you need a heavier spoke on the rear wheel?
> 
> em


Rear wheel kept going out of true.
This happened to 3 different sets.
After I changed the configuration, I never had to true my rear wheel.


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## Chonut (Mar 29, 2005)

Hey guys,

Thanks for all the input! It sounds like the quality of the build is AT LEAST as important as the components used (within reason). My understanding is that BBW builds a high quality wheelset - I don't recall reading a single post to the contrary - so I think I might risk it and go light. Worst case, if I have issues with the wheels going out of true, I can always get the wheels rebuilt with thicker spokes.

Of course, additional input is always welcome and appreciated.

Thanks again,


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