# A little bird told me....



## yanksphan (May 18, 2005)

This week Campagnolo is holding their 2009 product introduction in Vicenza for the subsidiaries.

"10% more gears and batteries are optional" is what I've been told...

stay tuned!


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## iyeoh (Jan 6, 2005)

11 speeds! Electronic! 

Do they have virtual cycling components as well, so I can lie on my couch and pretend I just rode 200 miles ?


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## slowdave (Nov 29, 2005)

iyeoh said:


> 11 speeds! Electronic!
> 
> Do they have virtual cycling components as well, so I can lie on my couch and pretend I just rode 200 miles ?


Feel the burn!


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## RoyIII (Feb 24, 2007)

There goes my 16 lbs bike. Batteries and spares. It's bad enough with a guitar player in the band always needing 9v batteries. Now this!


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## SleeveleSS (Jun 3, 2007)

RoyIII said:


> There goes my 16 lbs bike. Batteries and spares. It's bad enough with a guitar player in the band always needing 9v batteries. Now this!


The electronic versions of DA and Record should actually be lighter. Now whether anyone needs an 11 speed cassette is another question.


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## brujenn (Nov 26, 2007)

I hear ya sleeves. My suntour 5 speed cluster is still kick arse.


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## yanksphan (May 18, 2005)

SleeveleSS said:


> The electronic versions of DA and Record should actually be lighter. Now whether anyone needs an 11 speed cassette is another question.


The patent for the current Ergopower design runs out this year or next - which is the reason for the redesign and 11 speed addition.

Of course it's up to the marketing department in Italy to try and convince us that we need it to ride more efficiently.


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## SleeveleSS (Jun 3, 2007)

yanksphan said:


> The patent for the current Ergopower design runs out this year or next - which is the reason for the redesign and 11 speed addition.
> 
> Of course it's up to the marketing department in Italy to try and convince us that we need it to ride more efficiently.


Somebody is going to have to call a stop to it somewhere. It's either narrower chains and more finicky drivetrains, or wheels with more dish, or a new rear hub width standard. None of those appeal to me in the least.


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## yanksphan (May 18, 2005)

SleeveleSS said:


> Somebody is going to have to call a stop to it somewhere. It's either narrower chains and more finicky drivetrains, or wheels with more dish, or a new rear hub width standard. None of those appeal to me in the least.


I know a lot of money was invested in getting the chain from 6.1 to 5.9, so I have a feeling it might be wheel dish that we're looking at.


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## TurboTurtle (Feb 4, 2004)

SleeveleSS said:


> Somebody is going to have to call a stop to it somewhere. It's either narrower chains and more finicky drivetrains, or wheels with more dish, or a new rear hub width standard. None of those appeal to me in the least.


I can't find a picture, but the Shimano 14-speed patent showed a chain design with the inner plate shaped as a V with the point upwards. This would mean that the cog teeth would only see the outer plates and they could decrease the width of the chain/cog by the width of the inner plate. - TF


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## SleeveleSS (Jun 3, 2007)

yanksphan said:


> I know a lot of money was invested in getting the chain from 6.1 to 5.9, so I have a feeling it might be wheel dish that we're looking at.


The most interesting thread I ever read on MTBR was all about wheel dish. More dish is not what we need for sure. A wider hub standard would be a pain, but it would allow for lighter rims and stronger wheels. Other considerations such a q-factor and hub availability would have to be taken into consideration, so all in all any changes to 11-speed would be for the worse in my opinion.


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## yanksphan (May 18, 2005)

SleeveleSS said:


> The most interesting thread I ever read on MTBR was all about wheel dish. More dish is not what we need for sure. A wider hub standard would be a pain, but it would allow for lighter rims and stronger wheels. Other considerations such a q-factor and hub availability would have to be taken into consideration, so all in all any changes to 11-speed would be for the worse in my opinion.


I agree - with the conventional spoke methods the industry has used for past generations, more dish is certainly not optimal - however - with some of the newer materials and spoke configurations that have surfaced over the past 5 years or so, perhaps the negative results of more dish have been taken into consideration in the new designs.


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## iyeoh (Jan 6, 2005)

I wonder how much more simple, reliable and light it would be if they went back to classic 10 speed and friction shifting.


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## SleeveleSS (Jun 3, 2007)

iyeoh said:


> I wonder how much more simple, reliable and light it would be if they went back to classic 10 speed and friction shifting.


On my next build I hope to use the DTSwiss 240 singlespeed rear hub with a 5 cog cluster on it. With a single or a double up front (I haven't decided yet), and friction shifted, it should be light, simple, and I'll have a stronger rear wheel. The more I learn about cycling, the simpler I like things to be.


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## toonraid (Sep 19, 2006)

Before everyone gets too carried away what I heard is a little different - here is what will be launched.
1 - New ergo design possibly called UltraShift (pics out there on internet) from Centaur upwards with an electric version.
2 - Centaur will also get an alloy ergo to go with the chainset which will be priced lower than carbon version.
3 - Veloce will have the old Ergopower alongside Escape

Haven't heard anything on the gears but heard they are working on extending the sprockets options (i think they need a 12 - 27 to complete the range).
4 - There will be more cogs


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## yanksphan (May 18, 2005)

all you Super Record fans....2009 is your year.


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## yanksphan (May 18, 2005)

Guess I was wrong before.

There will be a new chain. 5.5 is the new width.


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## HammerTime-TheOriginal (Mar 29, 2006)

yanksphan said:


> all you Super Record fans....2009 is your year.


Explanation please.


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## yanksphan (May 18, 2005)

HammerTime-TheOriginal said:


> Explanation please.


All I know now is the name is being resurrected. 

With the "batteries are optional" comment I posted earlier, I have to believe two versions of Record will be released, with the 'Super' variation being electronic.

Details as soon as I find out.

Oh - supposedly none of the 09 stuff is backwards compatible.


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## dead flag blues (Aug 26, 2004)

Hmm.. Not super-surprising, i suppose. Thanks for the updates.





yanksphan said:


> All I know now is the name is being resurrected.
> 
> With the "batteries are optional" comment I posted earlier, I have to believe two versions of Record will be released, with the 'Super' variation being electronic.
> 
> ...


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## toonraid (Sep 19, 2006)

Apparently release is set for september and the current ergo will be available alongside the new one.


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## Ruimteaapje (May 2, 2008)

The new ergos are so fugly my eyes hurt.


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## wankski (Jul 24, 2005)

i'm quite open to the new look ergos... it will be an interesting option....

but what i really wanna know is... any new wheels for 2009? the current line up has been going for a while... i'm looking to pull the trigger, but can hold off if there are some new interesting developments specifically in the area of taller profile alu clincher...

any rumours?


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## toonraid (Sep 19, 2006)

There are quite a few surprises;

Top of the list is "Two way fit" meaning you can go tubs or clincher on same wheel, available in Eurus and Shamal Ultra Ti's, then there is the new "Ultra Two" for Hyperons and Bora and there will also be a clincher version of Shamal Ultra Golds.


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## wankski (Jul 24, 2005)

frikken awesome... didn't see the tubbie/clincher thing coming !!

what i really wanna know is, has any of the profiles changed? to me it seems that there is a gap in the line up... nothing b/w a 26mm front and the bora 50mm.... any chance campy is bringing back the 30mm aero profile or similar?


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## toonraid (Sep 19, 2006)

They have done a good job of hiding things - surprised everyone by the 11s and if that wasn't enough did a double wammy with super record. As for the profiles - don't think anything has changed, perhaps just lighter as its supposed to be around the same price.


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## HammerTime-TheOriginal (Mar 29, 2006)

Does a rumor on an Intternet board constitute "doing" it? I haven't seen these available for sale yet. Time will tell.


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## yanksphan (May 18, 2005)

HammerTime-TheOriginal said:


> Does a rumor on an Intternet board constitute "doing" it? I haven't seen these available for sale yet. Time will tell.


It's May 2008.

We're talking about product that was privately introduced to Campy's worldwide subsidiaries this past week for 2009.

Makes sense why you haven't seen it for sale yet, no?

The Super Record group apparently has no silver - all black. So the rear and front portions of the rear derailleur have been blacked out, as has the clamp for the front derailleur (finally - I pushed for this for years when I worked there).


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## toonraid (Sep 19, 2006)

I am with yankspan on this, I heard its going on sale as of Monday to distributors with deliveries set for september so I guess come October they will be hitting shops. Yank I know super record is lighter and around 20% more expensive than record but do you know how much lighter?


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## yanksphan (May 18, 2005)

toonraid said:


> I am with yankspan on this, I heard its going on sale as of Monday to distributors with deliveries set for september so I guess come October they will be hitting shops. Yank I know super record is lighter and around 20% more expensive than record but do you know how much lighter?


I haven't heard many specifics yet about weight, specs etc - just that none of it is backwards compatible.

The wheel stuff is interesting. None of my contacts have mentioned anything, but those types of 'out of left field' changes are certainly Campy's MO.


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## Bocephus Jones II (Oct 7, 2004)

yanksphan said:


> I haven't heard many specifics yet about weight, specs etc - just that none of it is backwards compatible.
> 
> The wheel stuff is interesting. None of my contacts have mentioned anything, but those types of 'out of left field' changes are certainly Campy's MO.


fugly..bring back chrome

<img src=https://www.campyonly.com/images/rumors/2008/electronic_3.jpg>

<img src=https://www.campyonly.com/images/rumors/2008/electronic_4.jpg>


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## toonraid (Sep 19, 2006)

SleeveleSS said:


> Somebody is going to have to call a stop to it somewhere. It's either narrower chains and more finicky drivetrains, or wheels with more dish, or a new rear hub width standard. None of those appeal to me in the least.


Apparently the hub remains unchanged so 11speed cassettes will fit the old 9/10s hubs. As for chain width I think campy can afford to go narrower, afterall both the chain and cassettes outlast shimano by quite a margin and is stronger too. On the other hand Record used to be the only groupset to land under 2kg till Sram Red came out and by the sound of it the new DA will also be below 2kg so definitely the time to lower the bar.


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## wankski (Jul 24, 2005)

as in the hubset? dude that blows! i had false hope that campy would follow the big S and offer record in drillings from 20-36... no luck !

shame... would have been the best hub going for campy users IMHO...


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## yanksphan (May 18, 2005)

https://weightweenies.starbike.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=43589










Check out 'Compatibility'


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## Bocephus Jones II (Oct 7, 2004)

toonraid said:


> Apparently the hub remains unchanged so 11speed cassettes will fit the old 9/10s hubs. As for chain width I think campy can afford to go narrower, afterall both the chain and cassettes outlast shimano by quite a margin and is stronger too. On the other hand Record used to be the only groupset to land under 2kg till Sram Red came out and by the sound of it the new DA will also be below 2kg so definitely the time to lower the bar.


so to upgrade to 11 you'd need a new cassette, chain and 11's spacing discs in your brifters?


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## yanksphan (May 18, 2005)

Supposedly, none of the existing 10s components are backwards compatible - so new brifters as well.


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## Bocephus Jones II (Oct 7, 2004)

yanksphan said:


> Supposedly, none of the existing 10s components are backwards compatible - so new brifters as well.


Is the front derailler and cranks gonna stay the same then or do the rings need to be thinner to be compatible with the narrower chain?


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## RoyIII (Feb 24, 2007)

They can keep 'em. I agree with B. Jones II. All the campy stuff I buy anymore is off eBay so I can get the shiny stuff. I'm partial to the alloy.


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## yanksphan (May 18, 2005)

Bocephus Jones II said:


> Is the front derailler and cranks gonna stay the same then or do the rings need to be thinner to be compatible with the narrower chain?


Not sure. They just redesigned the FD for 2008, so _re_-redesigning seems like a lot of redundant work.


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## C-40 (Feb 4, 2004)

*opinion..*



Bocephus Jones II said:


> Is the front derailler and cranks gonna stay the same then or do the rings need to be thinner to be compatible with the narrower chain?


I've got the '08 CT/STD FD and it's got plenty of room to move further to the left to shift down to the 34T little ring. The worst that could happen is it might require 5 clicks instead of 4, but that's still possible with one sweep of the finger lever.

I actually had to narrow the cage on some of my triple FDs to use the UN chain (on a triple crank. The FD was resting on my 31.8mm seat tube, but not shifting to the little ring. A little persuasion in a vice fixed those FDs. I'll try a triple FD with an 11 speed chain on a compact and report. My guess is it will shift it fine and require less trimming. It works with the 5.9mm chain.


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## newridr (Mar 7, 2003)

*What about the cassettes?*

The big question, to me, is what will the cassette range be? Shimano and Sram have a near perfect range with their 11-28 cassettes. Right now, I have to switch between my 12-25 and my 13-29 and curse everytime I need a little more speed, wishing for that 11t cog (that you can only get into with the short cage derailleur supposedly).


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## toonraid (Sep 19, 2006)

I didn't know shimano did a 11-28!

By the sound of it there are new cassettes, I think 12-27 (or was it 8) for the 11 speed drives, not sure which RD you would have to use.


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## newridr (Mar 7, 2003)

toonraid said:


> I didn't know shimano did a 11-28!
> 
> QUOTE]
> 
> The newly announced 2009 Shimano DA will have that range. Perfect cassette IMO. I really wish Campy would do that. Centuries with 10K of climbing need a little more than a 12-25t (at least for the average to slightly above average rider like myself - I log 4K miles a year).


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## toonraid (Sep 19, 2006)

There will definitely be 12-27 for super record, record and chorus.


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