# Pros Taken Out by Our Crappy Roads



## MMsRepBike (Apr 1, 2014)

Welcome to Virginia! Richmond has some bad roads. What town in this country doesn't? Especially in the east.

Well...

Team Sky crash on potholes:

Team Sky suffer heavy fall in Worlds TTT training ride | Cyclingnews.com









Team Optum crash on potholes:

Training crash deals blow to Optum women’s TTT hopes | Cyclingnews.com

One broken collarbone, one concussion and many other injuries.

Team Sky, Optum women's squad crash at worlds TTT practice - VeloNews.com


And to boot there's thieves stalking the hotels:

Thief nabs Evelyn Stevens' time trial bike at Worlds | Cyclingnews.com

Her teammates bike "vanished" as well.

Somebody must have forgot to tell the pros that they were racing in a poor town.


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## Mike T. (Feb 3, 2004)

Potholes in a world championship road course? Totally unacceptable. 

The UCI should mandate standards if the places that are the beneficiaries of these races can't do the good thing and provide an acceptable surface to race on.

Why aren't team managers checking out the courses and demanding repairs be made?

At least they got Evelyn's bike back -

Richmond police recover Evelyn Stevens' stolen bike - VeloNews.com


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## MMsRepBike (Apr 1, 2014)

Interesting tidbit; yes there are potholes in many places. They all seem to be marked with bright spray paint. Many other roads/sections were just paved. Those areas were just too bad and needed to be redone. Well not only is a newly paved surface pretty oily and slick to begin with... that's another topic. The problem on the newly paved streets is the obstructions like man hole covers and such are not marked with paint. When they're rolling over them, they're going down. 

So they have to look out for holes that are marked and those that are not. Raised surfaces, sunken manhole covers, ..., same as a pothole if you ask me. They of course then need to spray paint the man hole covers... Like right ****ing now.


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## Mike T. (Feb 3, 2004)

It sounds like a major fuster-cluck to me. They've known of the circuit for x years already. How hard would it have been to fix it 3 months ago?


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## MMsRepBike (Apr 1, 2014)

Richmond police recover Evelyn Stevens' stolen bike - VeloNews.com

At least Evelyn got her bike back.



> The course loops around Richmond, hitting some narrow streets, some lumpy terrain, with one relatively steep 300-meter-long climb at the end of the course Many teams and riders have already previewed the course, including Lotto-Soudal’s Greg Henderson.
> 
> “There are some technical sections, but also long, straight pieces of road where we will go very fast,” Henderson said. “On the circuit you get a couple of uphill parts that could potentially cause some trouble if you don’t attack them correctly, but we already did a few recons so we know where all the potholes are and what lines to take through the corners.
> 
> ...


Lol, they have the pothole locations memorized.


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## ibericb (Oct 28, 2014)

Mike T. said:


> It sounds like a major fuster-cluck to me. They've known of the circuit for x years already. How hard would it have been to fix it 3 months ago?


The roads are maintained by the City of Richmond's own Department of Public Works . It's not about difficulty. It's an issue of organization, which is non-existent. This is (or maybe was) the City's opportunity to show the world what they are capable of, which is exactly what they are doing. As one who grew up there, I am totally unsurprised.


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## Nubster (Jul 8, 2009)

Be another 30 years before the race will come back to the US if this is the crap the racers are being welcomed with. I mean perhaps it happens in other countries too? I don't know...I've just started following the race stuff so I'm not up to speed on what's happened in years past. I do know at least one bike was stolen and recovered at the Vuelta this year at the so at least it didn't happen just here.


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## Nubster (Jul 8, 2009)

ibericb said:


> The roads are maintained by the City of Richmond's own Department of Public Works . It's not about difficulty. It's an issue of organization, which is non-existent. This is (or maybe was) the City's opportunity to show the world what they are capable of, which is exactly what they are doing. As one who grew up there, I am totally unsurprised.


I've never been to Richmond other than Kings Dominion but I've had dealings with some of the city's scum....gangs down there seem to really like sending their bangers up here to sell dope and we have to deal with them.


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## Mike T. (Feb 3, 2004)

Nubster said:


> I've never been to Richmond other than Kings Dominion but I've had dealings with some of the city's scum....gangs down there seem to really like sending their bangers up here to sell dope and we have to deal with them.


Painting potholes? That's about one step ahead of not doing anything at all. They probably sent one guy out on Thursday in a pickup truck with a rattle-can of da-glo orange.


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## ibericb (Oct 28, 2014)

Mike T. said:


> ... They probably sent one guy out on Thursday in a pickup truck with a rattle-can of da-glo orange.


It would appear you know Richmond's Department of Public Works quite well. For a major event they now mark them. This is an improvement over the not-too-distant past. 

Part of the issue is it was left to the City of Richmond, which is organizationally rather dismal compared to the immediately surrounding counties (Henrico and Chesterfield). The major benefactor of having this in the area will be the State. The two major surrounding counties also stand to benefit greatly IF this is pulled of well. The problem is those other entities probably did relatively little to help the incapable City prepare effectively. There's a very long history that led to that.


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## spdntrxi (Jul 25, 2013)

really sad... potholes on the route could be filled easily.


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## Nubster (Jul 8, 2009)

ibericb said:


> It would appear you know Richmond's Department of Public Works quite well. For a major event they now mark them. This is an improvement over the not-too-distant past.
> 
> Part of the issue is it was left to the City of Richmond, which is organizationally rather dismal compared to the immediately surrounding counties (Henrico and Chesterfield). The major benefactor of having this in the area will be the State. The two major surrounding counties also stand to benefit greatly IF this is pulled of well. The problem is those other entities probably did relatively little to help the incapable City prepare effectively. There's a very long history that led to that.


I hate to hear this...but my town's new city administrator is from Richmond...he was a/the city administrator there.


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## ibericb (Oct 28, 2014)

Nubster said:


> I hate to hear this...but my town's new city administrator is from Richmond...he was a/the city administrator there.


He may well be a superb administrator. The problems in Richmond are long standing issues, and well beyond the control of any city administrative officer (start with a 26% poverty rate in the City). I suspect part of the City's problem is there isn't anyone is the City organization that has a clue of what's involved in this kind of event. They don't even know who to ask, or who to listen to.


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## Marc (Jan 23, 2005)

spdntrxi said:


> really sad... potholes on the route could be filled easily.


Costs money.

I say that as a denizen of a city with tons of potholes and crapy roads


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## ibericb (Oct 28, 2014)

Marc said:


> Costs money.
> 
> I say that as a denizen of a city with tons of potholes and crapy roads


That, and it takes an awareness that potholes will be a significant issue for a world-class road cycling event, which will draw worldwide attention.


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## Nubster (Jul 8, 2009)

ibericb said:


> He may well be a superb administrator. The problems in Richmond are long standing issues, and well beyond the control of any city administrative officer (start with a 26% poverty rate in the City). I suspect part of the City's problem is there isn't anyone is the City organization that has a clue of what's involved in this kind of event. They don't even know who to ask, or who to listen to.


Hope so. Of course we are a very small town so our city administrator has much more to do with the day to day operation and long term of the city. Basically runs it in fact. So far he seems like he's doing well.


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## spdntrxi (Jul 25, 2013)

Marc said:


> Costs money.
> 
> I say that as a denizen of a city with tons of potholes and crapy roads


obviously... I bet they have some rule about city/union employees are the only ones to do the repairing also. Otherwise a few cycling clubs in the area could have been given the materials and did it themselves. I sure that it would have been easy to line up volunteers.


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## crit_boy (Aug 6, 2013)

Sad. I think half of northern va has been repaved this summer.


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## burgrat (Nov 18, 2005)

Let's just call it Richmond-Roubaix and we're all good!


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## ibericb (Oct 28, 2014)

burgrat said:


> Let's just call it Richmond-Roubaix and we're all good!


More like Paris. Monument Ave will keep the less experienced and worldly riders on their toes.


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## Mike T. (Feb 3, 2004)

At least Phinney's mob missed all the potholes and stayed upright today. Good on 'em!


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## Marc (Jan 23, 2005)

Way to go UCI...I had to dial my VPN into Germany to be able to watch a US bike race.

That kind of crap is just **sure** to grow cycling here in the USA.


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## wim (Feb 28, 2005)

Mike T. said:


> At least Phinney's mob missed all the potholes and stayed upright today. Good on 'em!


Yes, great ride by those guys.

Another hiccup, could have been more than that:

Pursuit ends with car smashing through UCI barricade - NBC12 - WWBT - Richmond, VA News On Your Side


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## den bakker (Nov 13, 2004)

wim said:


> Yes, great ride by those guys.
> 
> More excitement today, a car on he course. He "smashed through the UCI barricade" to get OFF the course. Good move?
> 
> Pursuit ends with car smashing through UCI barricade - NBC12 - WWBT - Richmond, VA News On Your Side


is the bike that was parked against the fence ok?


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## JSR (Feb 27, 2006)

Marc said:


> Way to go UCI...I had to dial my VPN into Germany to be able to watch a US bike race.


 I saw it on CNBC.


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## Mengtian (May 31, 2015)

I did the course today on Zwift...didn't see any potholes Serioulsy, I can't beleive the conditions are that bad.

View attachment 309329


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## den bakker (Nov 13, 2004)

Marc said:


> Way to go UCI...I had to dial my VPN into Germany to be able to watch a US bike race.
> 
> That kind of crap is just **sure** to grow cycling here in the USA.


the UCI feed was for countries without access to tv coverage. Why would a US provider pay for the rights to cover the race if people get it free elsewhere?


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## Marc (Jan 23, 2005)

den bakker said:


> the UCI feed was for countries without access to tv coverage. Why would a US provider pay for the rights to cover the race if people get it free elsewhere?


The channels that carried the racing for all purposes count as no TV coverage


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## Gregory Taylor (Mar 29, 2002)

I went down to Richmond and saw the race, and actually rode a bit of the Course (Start to the turn at the Stonewall Jackson statute on the boulevard).

Yes, some of the road was crappy. My understanding is that the crashes took place on some of the non-crappy freshly paved stretches of road - a layer of asphalt was put down, and the manholes ended up "sunken" in the pavement. All of it was marked by paint for the race and could be readily seen by a rider at speed. Not sure if it was marked yesterday for practice.

Before everyone gets all sniffy about how the rustics here in Virginia are screwing up a Sophisticated International Event, a couple of thoughts. 

First, the UCI reviewed and approved the course well ahead of time. They were fine with it. 

Second, theft of team bikes during races happens in Europe too. It ain't just a Richmond thing. 

Third, everyone that I met from Richmond who had anything to do with the race - police, volunteers, emergency responders - were friendly, helpful, and above-all jazzed to have the race in Richmond. The staff at the Lewis Ginter Botanical Gardens, where the start was located, and who you would think would be some of the LAST people who would enthusiastically get behind a bike race, really went out of their way to make sure folks had a GREAT time. It was a blast.... I'm gonna try and go back for the road race next Sunday.


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## 4Crawler (Jul 13, 2011)

Has anyone figured out what countries are permitted access to the UCI YouTube content for the world championships, like the one below:
https://youtu.be/M_fNng_rIM8

I tried US and UK, but both are denied.


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## BikeRVA (Jul 24, 2014)

Gregory Taylor said:


> I went down to Richmond and saw the race, and actually rode a bit of the Course (Start to the turn at the Stonewall Jackson statute on the boulevard).
> 
> Yes, some of the road was crappy. My understanding is that the crashes took place on some of the non-crappy freshly paved stretches of road - a layer of asphalt was put down, and the manholes ended up "sunken" in the pavement. All of it was marked by paint for the race and could be readily seen by a rider at speed. Not sure if it was marked yesterday for practice.
> 
> ...


Thank you for your thoughtful response. As a longtime Richmond resident, cyclist, and volunteer for Richmond 2015, I take issue with many of the above comments. Were there flats? Yes. From what I heard, it was not potholes, it was manhole covers. They are racing on city roads. The manholes can not be removed. 

After spending over 8 hours at the finish line with teams, my experience was that they found the course challenging and worthy of the Worlds. The fans I spoke with from all over the world were positive. (Some locals not as much).

Does our city always perform flawlessly? No. But I stand with our city in their work to make this a world class event. As far as UCI, I can't see these guys approving a course as bad as described.

I'm volunteering all week and will be riding the road course on Friday night. If anyone else plans to "Conquer the Cobbles" let me know. Happy to share more of the experience.


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## BikeRVA (Jul 24, 2014)

Also a quote from the OP's link "Much of the Richmond course has been repaved, and it appears that both crashes were caused by manhole covers, not potholes or other artifacts of an old, poor road surface.
Read more at http://velonews.competitor.com/2015/09/news/sky-optum-women-crash-at-worlds-team-time-trial-practice_385301#mX4XYbdd7QPmyMbT.99"

It is a road race. All hazards can not be eliminated.


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## flattire (Jan 29, 2004)

I watched both the men's and women's events today here: Richmond 2015

No registration or fee required.


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## MMsRepBike (Apr 1, 2014)

The issue with the manhole covers is they were not marked but they were sunken.

If you are going to mark all of the potholes, you have to mark the sunken manhole covers too. COMMON SENSE. 

Guess your city doesn't have much of that.


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## Mike T. (Feb 3, 2004)

MMsRepBike said:


> The issue with the manhole covers is they were not marked but they were sunken.
> 
> If you are going to mark all of the potholes, you have to mark the sunken manhole covers too. COMMON SENSE.
> 
> Guess your city doesn't have much of that.


Sunken manholes can be raised up. It just takes awareness, will, time and money.


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## Marc (Jan 23, 2005)

Mike T. said:


> Sunken manholes can be raised up. It just takes awareness, will, time and money.


Emphasis time and money. Also risking the ire or locals due to road closures due to said work. Can you blame a community, that quite honestly even if they did everything right and had rebuilt and had perfect roads will probably never see a UCI-sanctioned event again, skimp on blowing $100,000+USD in road repairs for a one-off bunch of non-returning cyclists? I cannot speak for VA's climate and how long roads last-but out here that kind of work could only be done within 3-months of the event or it would all crumble and go to pot before it was really used.

We cyclists like to think we're the world's most important snowflakes where people need to rollout the carpet...but come on. In the USA we live in one of the most anti-cycling places of any 1st world country, and getting what they got is rather remarkable.


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## Mike T. (Feb 3, 2004)

Marc said:


> Emphasis time and money. Also risking the ire or locals due to road closures due to said work. Can you blame a community, that quite honestly even if they did everything right and had rebuilt and had perfect roads will probably never see a UCI-sanctioned event again, skimp on blowing $100,000+USD in road repairs for a one-off bunch of non-returning cyclists? I cannot speak for VA's climate and how long roads last-but out here that kind of work could only be done within 3-months of the event or it would all crumble and go to pot before it was really used.
> 
> We cyclists like to think we're the world's most important snowflakes where people need to rollout the carpet...but come on. In the USA we live in one of the most anti-cycling places of any 1st world country, and getting what they got is rather remarkable.


Then the UCI should have taken control of its racers' safety and coned and laned-off potential dangerous obstacles. Oh but the UCI doesn't have a good track record of doing this does it? Remember the exposed metal post at one of the sprig classics that the rider hit - breaking a few bones - including a femur?


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## Gregory Taylor (Mar 29, 2002)

Mike T. said:


> Then the UCI should have taken control of its racers' safety and coned and laned-off potential dangerous obstacles. Oh but the UCI doesn't have a good track record of doing this does it? Remember the exposed metal post at one of the sprig classics that the rider hit - breaking a few bones - including a femur?


Actually, the UCI _is_ in control of the race. The race itself went off smoothly, and the riders that did hit the deck during the race went down because they touched wheels. 

One thing that I noticed in the news reports is that none of the racers were publicly complaining about the course. Even the teams that had riders who went down on the recon day. 

No one. 

While some private words might have been exchanged in the team car, no riders or team managers were in High Dudgeon over the course conditions. No "Oh, The Humanity!" rants to the press about UCI buffoonery. I'm not saying it was absolutely perfect - it never is - but I'd first listen to the riders and what they thought about the course before I would share any thoughts on "How I Would Run The World Championships."


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## davcruz (Oct 9, 2007)

MMsRepBike said:


> The issue with the manhole covers is they were not marked but they were sunken.
> 
> If you are going to mark all of the potholes, you have to mark the sunken manhole covers too. COMMON SENSE.
> 
> Guess your city doesn't have much of that.


What city does? Seriously.

I was as flabbergasted as anyone else to hear of the "potholes" that caused the crashes. However I do understand that the attempt was to put a nice new surface down and that meant some manhole covers became slightly below the new grade. They should be marked well, however there are road irregularities on all road courses, that is the nature of this type of racing. Had they been actual potholes that had not been filled I would be completely pissed.

I live in RVA area, the city is getting better, but the leadership is still very bad. I would not have been shocked if there where potholes on the course, thankfully there seem to not be.


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## Marc (Jan 23, 2005)

Mike T. said:


> Then the UCI should have taken control of its racers' safety and coned and laned-off potential dangerous obstacles. Oh but the UCI doesn't have a good track record of doing this does it? Remember the exposed metal post at one of the sprig classics that the rider hit - breaking a few bones - including a femur?


What is your point? Remember When Johnny Hoogerland got run off the road by a race vehicle and thrown into a barbed wire fence and fence post? What do you want to do about it?

IRL racing you cannot make it 100% safe. Ever. I'd warn anyone against pacelining on USA city streets, and the teams of pro riders should have known that too. Team Sky especially has historically shown a need for remedial bike handling school whether they were on TT bikes or not. Saxo wrecked during the race because they touched wheels.



Aside from the VeloSnooze headlines however you don't hear much of any complaining from the riders...unlike what happened WRT to opening TTT of the Vuelta where the drama queens were spewing to any and every journalist around. What was really tragically hilarious-n o one crashed on that....in the following days of pan flat roads with minimal furniture and hazards there were wrecks galore.


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## wim (Feb 28, 2005)

Marc said:


> Can you blame a community, that quite honestly even if they did everything right and had rebuilt and had perfect roads will probably never see a UCI-sanctioned event again, skimp on blowing $100,000+USD in road repairs for a one-off bunch of non-returning cyclists?.


That's a good point. Richmond has some serious (non-cycling) issues that need to be addressed, so the city has to balance spending money on what many see as a sporting event for an elitist crowd with spending money on some real-world projects.

And yes, the "that's bike racing" retort is a valid response. My friends and I helped put on a three-county annual road race in SE Virginia in the late 1980s and after every race, there were one or two complaints about some driveway gravel spilled onto the tarmac in a few places. Invariably, the complaints were from newcomers to the sport.


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