# Colnago C60 speculation



## Trek_5200

There's buzz that Colnago is getting ready to update the c59. Given what we see Colnago has done with the c59 in terms of disc brakes and what the competition has done regarding stiffness and weight any speculation as to how the C60 will differ from the C59?

My own guess is the weight comes down a little but not much, that the new frame is more geared toward disc brakes and they claim a slightly stiffer ride. Also willing to speculate that the c60 is evolutionary more than revolutionary in much the same way the c59 was an improvement over the c50 and the c50 an improvement over the c40.

Anyone better insights?


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## nightfend

My prediction is they finally end all production in Italy and move the C60 to Taiwan.


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## pmf

nightfend said:


> My prediction is they finally end all production in Italy and move the C60 to Taiwan.


That would be sad. I have to say that it wouldn't surprise me. They laid off all the painters years ago. The C59 is kind of ugly. No cool paint jobs anymore. And disc brakes ... Gawd.


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## Trek_5200

pmf said:


> That would be sad. I have to say that it wouldn't surprise me. They laid off all the painters years ago. The C59 is kind of ugly. No cool paint jobs anymore. And disc brakes ... Gawd.


Saw a c-40 the other day. Although the c59 and c50 ride much better, I must say, the c40 grabs me more , style wise. Paint job is better.


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## Trek_5200

I think Colnago is wedded to lugged frames. Also doubt they give up on making the high end bike in Italy. At a high enough price the extra labor cost is covered, plus the marketing of the top end helps sell the lower end Taiwan produced stuff. If they were to give up on making the c60 in Italy they would have nothing to convince people to buy their bike over a Pinarello.


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## Jay Strongbow

Trek_5200 said:


> I think Colnago is wedded to lugged frames. Also doubt they give up on making the high end bike in Italy. At a high enough price the extra labor cost is covered, plus the marketing of the top end helps sell the lower end Taiwan produced stuff. If they were to give up on making the c60 in Italy they would have nothing to convince people to buy their bike over a Pinarello.


That's one way to look at it.

Another would be: At a high enough labor cost the marketing doesn't result in high enough profit margin to offset the cost and they are running out of ways to convince people their old methods offer any advantage over Pinarello's more modern procedure.

A good bike is a good bike regardless of how it's put together so I'm not trying to say there's anything inferior about the way they do things with the C50. But public perception may be swinging that way and from a maketing and profit stand point something might have to give.

They make some great bikes......don't get me wrong. But other than romantic value I don't see lugged by hand construction offering any advantage.


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## Trek_5200

Jay Strongbow said:


> But other than romantic value I don't see lugged by hand construction offering any advantage.


Perception is reality. Lot of bike features offer questionable benefit, but they are part of the branding. For the top line Colnago the things they have not changed are lugs, octagonal tubing and being hand made. Unlike Pinarello , Colnago has not been known to make major style changes on this model, my guess is those things stay for the c60


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## Notvintage

Trek_5200 said:


> . . . plus the marketing of the top end helps sell the lower end Taiwan produced stuff.


At $4,000 for a frameset the M10 (made in Taiwan) doesn't cost "lower end." I bet the C60 will be made in the far east.


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## Trek_5200

Notvintage said:


> At $4,000 for a frameset the M10 (made in Taiwan) doesn't cost "lower end." I bet the C60 will be made in the far east.


Well, in the short-run that might make the c-59 frames go for more value. Personally, the made in Italy factor was a variable considered when I went Colnago. When putting out that much cash, whether perception or reality, I view made in Italy superior to made in Taiwan.


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## stevesbike

disc brakes aren't approved by the UCI, so it's not likely Colnago would make their top end model more disc-brake oriented (besides, there's not much more they could do in that regard that what's already on the 59 option). 

Frankly, Colnago needs to make a top end frameset that weighs less than 1,600 grams if they want to be anything other than a niche for hobbyists who fetish the brand. Making a billion sizes is fine, but the fact that nearly everyone can be fit on a smaller range of frame sizes undermines their justification of lugs. Lugs are heavy and just introduce potential failure points. Just read about another Italian team dropping Colnago and going with Cipollini bkes. If someone wanted to over-spend on a made in Italy frame, one of Cipo's would be a better option - and it comes with a warranty that is 5x longer than Colnago.


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## mriddle

Wow, editorial overload. 
Have any of you ever owned a Colnago? 
Lugs introduce potential failure? 
People, teams make frame decisions based on one thing. 
Colnago is all about ride quality, NOT weight.


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## stevesbike

so why do riders like Rolland choose the M10 over the c59 for alpine stages? Because a Colnago made by Giant in Taiwan is lighter and stiffer than the Italy made c59. Re lugs, again, ask any dealer about Colnago failures. Almost inevitably it involves a lug. I owned a Colnago when steel frames were state of the art. They have no competitive advantage in carbon. 




mriddle said:


> Wow, editorial overload.
> Have any of you ever owned a Colnago?
> Lugs introduce potential failure?
> People, teams make frame decisions based on one thing.
> Colnago is all about ride quality, NOT weight.


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## Trek_5200

mriddle said:


> Wow, editorial overload.
> Have any of you ever owned a Colnago?
> Lugs introduce potential failure?
> People, teams make frame decisions based on one thing.
> Colnago is all about ride quality, NOT weight.



The team switch was probably about money/sponsorship, not about the bike. 100 grams translate to 3 ounces. Sometimes I think people lose track of that and the fact there are weight minimums on road bikes.


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## pmf

Some observations here ...

1. There's a weight restriction in pro riding -- in most cases they have to add weight to their bikes. Heavier saddles, power tap hubs, etc are a lot more common. From the rider stand point, its probably a good thing not to have to resort to silly light components to get a small advantage. 

2. Who knows why some pros choose what they choose. Just because some rider chooses the M10 over the C59 when its a hilly stage doesn't mean one frame is better than another. It's just personal preference. Unfortunately, most of us don't get to try the entire Colnago line to see what we prefer in different situations. 

3. To say that lugs introduce potential failure points is just plain silly. Most frames will fail where one tube meets another, be that lugged, glued, or molded. 

4. Lugs may seem old fashioned in todays world of monocoque frames, but there are reasons for using them. They have a nice ride quality. They allow Colnago to customize the geometry of a frame. They allow Colnago to offer more sizes than most companies who sell molded frames. 

5. The C59 frame is quite a bit lighter than 1600 grams.


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## stevesbike

1. Thomas Voeckler's c59 comes in 140 grams over the UCI weight limit - that's a size 52 with 1230 gram tubular wheels.

2. Rolland picked the M10 because it's 1)lighter and 2) stiffer than the c59. Why would he pick a heavier, less stiff frame for a stage like alpe d'huez?

3. Tour magazine, among others, have done lots of destructive testing with long cycles of high load and almost inevitably lugged frames (steel or carbon) break at a lug junction. There are no tubes in monocoque carbon frames or joints as in a traditional lugged frame. Many use continuous fibers, which is structurally superior to a lug. The extreme c high failure rate at lugs illustrates the problem with lugs. Even Look has gone away from them, as did Serotta in later model years.

4. There are no engineering reasons to use lugs with carbon frames, but many reasons not to. The issue of having 20 size frames is also a non-starter, since 99.9% of riders can be fit on a smaller range of frame sizes. 

5. I gave the weight for the c59 frameset. Real world weight for a 56 (M) sized frame is 1200 grams and average fork weight is 400 grams (many on weight weenies coming in closer to 420 grams). 





pmf said:


> Some observations here ...
> 
> 1. There's a weight restriction in pro riding -- in most cases they have to add weight to their bikes. Heavier saddles, power tap hubs, etc are a lot more common. From the rider stand point, its probably a good thing not to have to resort to silly light components to get a small advantage.
> 
> 2. Who knows why some pros choose what they choose. Just because some rider chooses the M10 over the C59 when its a hilly stage doesn't mean one frame is better than another. It's just personal preference. Unfortunately, most of us don't get to try the entire Colnago line to see what we prefer in different situations.
> 
> 3. To say that lugs introduce potential failure points is just plain silly. Most frames will fail where one tube meets another, be that lugged, glued, or molded.
> 
> 4. Lugs may seem old fashioned in todays world of monocoque frames, but there are reasons for using them. They have a nice ride quality. They allow Colnago to customize the geometry of a frame. They allow Colnago to offer more sizes than most companies who sell molded frames.
> 
> 5. The C59 frame is quite a bit lighter than 1600 grams.


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## pmf

.... oh, why bother ...


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## stevesbike

the thread is about speculations on the next generation c59 - I speculated that Colnago would finally drop the lugged construction and go in the direction of the M10, which is the technically better frameset. I wouldn't be the first person to claim that Colnago's traditionalism is holding them back - there are even threads on that topic on this site. Your list was full of factual inaccuracies and obfuscations (such as the claim that Rolland's choice of the M10 wasn't based on more than a subjective preference which is counter to his own claims and objective differences between the frames). Who knows, maybe they'll even adopt a new bottom bracket standard...








pmf said:


> .... oh, why bother ...


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## Notvintage

I totally agree with Steve's quote. Lugs are dead, and exist for purely nostalgic reasons.


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## pmf

Whatever. I know I'm right, and you know you're right, and we both know Campy is better than Shimano, so let's just have a beer and enjoy the weekend. 

For the record, I bet you $5 that the C60 will be lugged and made in Italy. Ernesto knows what's good. So do I.


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## cannonf600

I have had the opportunity to ride a lot of bikes made of Al ,TI,and carbon and my Time with lugs has the best ride "feel" of any i have ridden.I think the lug bikes appeal to older riders who have owned steel or TI bikes before(and have the cheese to afford them).Did you guys read the Velo news test last year that had the C59 and 3 other pro tour bikes?It was right up there in the stiffness jig and had the best handling but they also said the Evo was a better bike for less $.IMO the C60 will be made in Italy with lugs no matter how much it costs.It is their top drawer bike and they could loose money on each and every one but will still sell them because it is a icon for the brand.


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## stevesbike

Actually, I agree with you on this part - it will be lugged and made in Italy. My guess is that they'll reduce output, increase price (probably emphasize the partnership with Ferrari more) and it will increasingly become a boutique, hobbyist frame for those willing to pay a large premium for a made in Italy traditional frameset. Meanwhile, the M10 will morph into a more innovative frame line with a press fit BB (like the CX zero), further weight reduction, etc. 




pmf said:


> Whatever. I know I'm right, and you know you're right, and we both know Campy is better than Shimano, so let's just have a beer and enjoy the weekend.
> 
> For the record, I bet you $5 that the C60 will be lugged and made in Italy. Ernesto knows what's good. So do I.


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## Trek_5200

Notvintage said:


> I totally agree with Steve's quote. Lugs are dead, and exist for purely nostalgic reasons.


In part, but they differentiate the brand. Lugs or not, you can still make a great road bike, but the reason why moncoque frames are so popular with the makers is they are cheaper to produce, not because they are better.

The C-60 will weigh less because that's been the trend of Colnago and the market, and the market deems any new frame which does not weigh less that a prior version as not an upgrade.


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## cannonf600

On the subject of lugs let's not forget that Trek USA made 6 and 7 series Madone use lug construction and the Madone always has you just can't see them.


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## Trek_5200

cannonf600 said:


> On the subject of lugs let's not forget that Trek USA made 6 and 7 series Madone use lug construction and the Madone always has you just can't see them.


If we change the word carbon to steel we see that lugs mostly serve aesthetics. Most riders will say there's no difference between a good welded frame or a lugged one. But in carbon it's hard to escape the fact that lugged frames tend to be hand built and monocoque more mass produced and one size fits all.


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## pmf

Trek_5200 said:


> In part, but they differentiate the brand. Lugs or not, you can still make a great road bike, but the reason why moncoque frames are so popular with the makers is they are cheaper to produce, not because they are better.
> 
> The C-60 will weigh less because that's been the trend of Colnago and the market, and the market deems any new frame which does not weigh less that a prior version as not an upgrade.


For the record, I was riding and racing a kestrel 200 Sci in the early 1990's. All my "steel is real" friends laughed at me for riding a "plastic" bike. It was a monocoque frame. I rode the hell out of that bike. Years later I had a custom C40 built for me. It was a nicer riding bike, but not by a lot and carbon had come a bit more high tech over the last decade. The mono bikes these days are made purely for economic reasons IMO. They're just as good inmost aspects, but ask me what I'd choose, money aside, and I'd definitely want a C60. Colnago doesn't pass the benefit cost test in general. Especially if you buy a Taiwan version. 

Bikes are hype. Frankly, my fave is my Eddy Merckx zero-uno Corsa. closely followed by my old Litespeed ultimate.I don't ride my C40 all that much. Stiffer ain't necessarily better. Frankly, give me 5k for a new frame and it would a Fancy one off Steel frame builder. Unfortunately, I don't have that kind of money these days .... Kids.


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## stevesbike

Personal preferences are great, but they are just that - personal and subjective. But claims like monocoque design is based on purely economic considerations is just silly. Lugs were needed originally in steel frames because welding introduced structural weaknesses into the steel alloys available, and so brazing, which involved lower temperatures, was used. There is 0 inherent reason to use a lug with carbon fiber and lots of reasons not to. Making more sizes isn't an engineering decision - it's a marketing decision. If anything, monocoque production is more expensive since it requires tooling molds, which is the economic reason for reduced size options. Manufacturers would save a lot of money if carbon bikes were still made with lug and tube construction. The reason custom builders do it is because it's cheaper and doesn't require extensive tooling like monocoque design (their costs are labor, but that's because of scale and doing it in countries with high labor costs). The most expensive carbon frames are lugless - the hand assembly required exceeds those of lugged construction by a lot.

The M10 is superior to the C59 on every objective measure - the premium people are willing to pay for the c59 is due to brand perception, marketing, and the fact that the frame is a status, prestige item. That's great, but there's no reason to make silly arguments about lugs, country of origin, etc. 






pmf said:


> For the record, I was riding and racing a kestrel 200 Sci in the early 1990's. All my "steel is real" friends laughed at me for riding a "plastic" bike. It was a monocoque frame. I rode the hell out of that bike. Years later I had a custom C40 built for me. It was a nicer riding bike, but not by a lot and carbon had come a bit more high tech over the last decade. The mono bikes these days are made purely for economic reasons IMO. They're just as good inmost aspects, but ask me what I'd choose, money aside, and I'd definitely want a C60. Colnago doesn't pass the benefit cost test in general. Especially if you buy a Taiwan version.
> 
> Bikes are hype. Frankly, my fave is my Eddy Merckx zero-uno Corsa. closely followed by my old Litespeed ultimate.I don't ride my C40 all that much. Stiffer ain't necessarily better. Frankly, give me 5k for a new frame and it would a Fancy one off Steel frame builder. Unfortunately, I don't have that kind of money these days .... Kids.


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## mriddle

Silly is probably an appropriate word here...


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## pmf

stevesbike said:


> Personal preferences are great, but they are just that - personal and subjective. But claims like monocoque design is based on purely economic considerations is just silly. Lugs were needed originally in steel frames because welding introduced structural weaknesses into the steel alloys available, and so brazing, which involved lower temperatures, was used. There is 0 inherent reason to use a lug with carbon fiber and lots of reasons not to. Making more sizes isn't an engineering decision - it's a marketing decision. If anything, monocoque production is more expensive since it requires tooling molds, which is the economic reason for reduced size options. Manufacturers would save a lot of money if carbon bikes were still made with lug and tube construction. The reason custom builders do it is because it's cheaper and doesn't require extensive tooling like monocoque design (their costs are labor, but that's because of scale and doing it in countries with high labor costs). The most expensive carbon frames are lugless - the hand assembly required exceeds those of lugged construction by a lot.
> 
> The M10 is superior to the C59 on every objective measure - the premium people are willing to pay for the c59 is due to brand perception, marketing, and the fact that the frame is a status, prestige item. That's great, but there's no reason to make silly arguments about lugs, country of origin, etc.


The more I enjoy this silly debate, the more I think Steve owns a M10 and has C59 envy. It's a better bike Steve. No one would choose the M10 over a C59. Next time just spend the money. You don't go to a Chinese restaurant for lasagna.


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## stevesbike

hmmm. maybe you should tell that to Pierre Rolland, who was more interested in the performance of his frame than how pretty it looked. The M10 looks pretty good coming across first on alpe d'huez.

The C59 is a lot like Voeckler. Narcissistic, interested in being looked at and making faces for the camera. The sort of rider who demands a custom geometry with a cm modification to the top tube instead of adding a longer stem. 





pmf said:


> The more I enjoy this silly debate, the more I think Steve owns a M10 and has C59 envy. It's a better bike Steve. No one would choose the M10 over a C59. Next time just spend the money. You don't go to a Chinese restaurant for lasagna.


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## pmf

stevesbike said:


> hmmm. maybe you should tell that to Pierre Rolland, who was more interested in the performance of his frame than how pretty it looked. The M10 looks pretty good coming across first on alpe d'huez.
> 
> The C59 is a lot like Voeckler. Narcissistic, interested in being looked at and making faces for the camera. The sort of rider who demands a custom geometry with a cm modification to the top tube instead of adding a longer stem.


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## Trek_5200

stevesbike said:


> hmmm. maybe you should tell that to Pierre Rolland, who was more interested in the performance of his frame than how pretty it looked. The M10 looks pretty good coming across first on alpe d'huez.
> 
> The C59 is a lot like Voeckler. Narcissistic, interested in being looked at and making faces for the camera. The sort of rider who demands a custom geometry with a cm modification to the top tube instead of adding a longer stem.


At the end of the day, training, genetics and nutrition are far more important than whether someone is riding an m-10 or a c-59. The fact that one bike is ridden by the winning team does not make it a better bike. Of course a great deal of ad dollars is spent to convince the cycling public otherwise.


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## stevesbike

that's right, the interesting question is what riders choose when their team bike sponsor offers them a choice of different models.... 



Trek_5200 said:


> At the end of the day, training, genetics and nutrition are far more important than whether someone is riding an m-10 or a c-59. The fact that one bike is ridden by the winning team does not make it a better bike. Of course a great deal of ad dollars is spent to convince the cycling public otherwise.


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## Trek_5200

stevesbike said:


> that's right, the interesting question is what riders choose when their team bike sponsor offers them a choice of different models....


Well now that Lance is done professionally , he rides a Parlee.
Lance Armstrong tweets about his new bike? and it's not a Trek | road.cc.

What Lance was saying in this action is once a pro is no longer bound by the financial obligations of sponsorship, assuming they have the money, they'll go for a custom built bike built to the geometry and preferences of the rider along with their desired stiffness level. 

For the most part sponsored pros ride what's provided.

By the way.... Is Parlee even in the Tour De France?


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## King Arthur

Owned about 4 colnagos, and loved each one of them. Never a problem with em either.


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## stevesbike

maybe you should check what he raced, like in the Panama 70.3 (it wasn't a Parlee TTi). Just to be clear, of course pro riders ride what's provided, but many bike sponsors give riders the choice of different models - it's telling when a top rider doesn't pick a maker's aero frame for a flat stage or when the top climber picks the M10 over the c59 - a choice pmf says no one would choose. I'd also take it over the c59. It's a better bike - and if Colnago is to evolve, that's the direction they'll continue to head in.



Trek_5200 said:


> Well now that Lance is done professionally , he rides a Parlee.
> Lance Armstrong tweets about his new bike? and it's not a Trek | road.cc.
> 
> What Lance was saying in this action is once a pro is no longer bound by the financial obligations of sponsorship, assuming they have the money, they'll go for a custom built bike built to the geometry and preferences of the rider along with their desired stiffness level.
> 
> For the most part sponsored pros ride what's provided.
> 
> By the way.... Is Parlee even in the Tour De France?


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## Fignon's Barber

OK, I've rolled through this thread while enjoying a very nice cabernet and watching football out of the corner of my eye, the racing season having officially come to an end yesterday. Good points by all, but I have to weigh in:
I hope Ernesto NEVER forgoes the lugged C- 59,60. In a sea of monocoque frames, they are a thing of beauty, a work of art. Part old school, part new school. Certainly race worthy, or just place it next to a picturesque stone wall and admire it. 
I race on a Canyon Ultimate CF SLX, as 2013 tech as it gets. I had my best ride of the year (you know when you feel like you are flying) on my 12 year old Colnago CT1. Fit,geometry,stiffness, lightness all play a roll. 
With regard to mr. tommy voeckler, if its good enough for him, its good enough for any of us to race. The fact that he trusts the c-59 in Tours, classics, and semi-classics certainly proves to me that it works in those settings. 
Can't wait to see a new C-60.
ps: Ernesto, please bring back your old painters. Black-on black color schemes are not for everyone.


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## pmf

Fignon's Barber said:


> OK, I've rolled through this thread while enjoying a very nice cabernet and watching football out of the corner of my eye, the racing season having officially come to an end yesterday. Good points by all, but I have to weigh in:
> I hope Ernesto NEVER forgoes the lugged C- 59,60. In a sea of monocoque frames, they are a thing of beauty, a work of art. Part old school, part new school. Certainly race worthy, or just place it next to a picturesque stone wall and admire it.
> I race on a Canyon Ultimate CF SLX, as 2013 tech as it gets. I had my best ride of the year (you know when you feel like you are flying) on my 12 year old Colnago CT1. Fit,geometry,stiffness, lightness all play a roll.
> With regard to mr. tommy voeckler, if its good enough for him, its good enough for any of us to race. The fact that he trusts the c-59 in Tours, classics, and semi-classics certainly proves to me that it works in those settings.
> Can't wait to see a new C-60.
> ps: Ernesto, please bring back your old painters. Black-on black color schemes are not for everyone.[/QUOTE
> 
> Bikes are a thing of beauty to me. A simple machine that can do so much. Maybe I'm an old fart, but there are so few bikes with a soul anymore. I too hope Colnago keeps their top frame in Italy the way it is now. And I agree with FB that they need to get those painters out of retirement. The C59 frames are ugly.
> 
> Steve .... I remember when TV had the yellow jersey for a week in the Lance era. The guy had a lot of heart. Maybe this was back when what you riding had three wheels. Not everyone can aspire to be a GC rider. And for those folks there is the M10. You bought a Chinese Colnago ... Live with it.


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## stevesbike

pmf said:


> ...
> 
> Steve .... I remember when TV had the yellow jersey for a week in the Lance era. The guy had a lot of heart. Maybe this was back when what you riding had three wheels. Not everyone can aspire to be a GC rider. And for those folks there is the M10. You bought a Chinese Colnago ... Live with it.


Funny, I remember chasing Lance Armstrong around on a few race courses circa 1991 on a lugged carbon frame, a Look KG96, before he turned pro. It was state of the art back then. Fast forward a few dozen years and a few dozen frames later and now the Look is hanging on a wall as art and the road bike, tt bike, mtb bike, and track bike are all lugless carbon frames. Technology, like time, moves on.... FWIW, my current race bike isn't a Colnago. But, if I did buy one it would be the M10. Hopefully, Colnago will embrace the future and not simply rely on the past glory of its brand when it thinks about new models.

Not everyone who likes monocoque frames was born yesterday - some of us grew up nailing cleats to our shoes, raced without a helmet, had wired heart monitors, and remember the first time a pedal went click.


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## Trek_5200

stevesbike said:


> Funny, I remember chasing Lance Armstrong around on a few race courses circa 1991 on a lugged carbon frame, a Look KG96, before he turned pro. It was state of the art back then. Fast forward a few dozen years and a few dozen frames later and now the Look is hanging on a wall as art and the road bike, tt bike, mtb bike, and track bike are all lugless carbon frames. Technology, like time, moves on.... FWIW, my current race bike isn't a Colnago. But, if I did buy one it would be the M10. Hopefully, Colnago will embrace the future and not simply rely on the past glory of its brand when it thinks about new models.
> 
> Not everyone who likes monocoque frames was born yesterday - some of us grew up nailing cleats to our shoes, raced without a helmet, had wired heart monitors, and remember the first time a pedal went click.


I find it funny that people love monocoque frames so much. I understand why the manufacturers like them. They are cheaper and easier to manufacture, but consumers should care about more than cost of production.


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## kbwh

What makes people think monoque frames are not hand made?


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## carbonLORD

I prefer the ride of the C59.

I'm curious if Steve has had extensive seat time on both, or back to back comparisons?

I've yet to hear of a C59 failing. Maybe older lugged designs had issues?

I've seen a few CLX's get warrantied from stress fractures (or bad paint).

Not to take away from the OP but yes, we can all agree that lugged, traditional geometry and rim braking are here to stay for a while. They should incorporate a mech/Di2 capable frame next run and hopefully the top end can continue to keep its Made In Italy heritage.

Typically owners of C59's have more then one bike in their stable. If I had to choose one bike to keep, guess which one.


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## FinnKidd

I know it takes several iterations to get the C-Series correct for Colnago. I remember hearing somewhere that the C59 took 40-50 fully built "versions" before they released it. I've heard with the soon possible release of the C60 that the C59 Framesets have come down for this year. Like $1,000. 

I think the C60 will stay in Italy along with the Steel Master frames. I believe we will see an updated Bottom Bracket that's completely unique to Colnago, in classic colnago style. I think the wide sizing will stay. It's a flagship bike. They do things on it that don't always seem logical from a market demand prospective. Colnago will give you want you're going to want after they do it.


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## Cinelli 82220

Trek_5200 said:


> I find it funny that people love monocoque frames so much. I understand why the manufacturers like them. They are cheaper and easier to manufacture, but consumers should care about more than cost of production.


Easier? Look at Colnago's own video, a grade seven dropout could put together a C59. The process was obviously engineered for Colnago by an outside supplier, those ovens on wheels have been around for a long time in other industries.

I can afford any bike I want. I happen to like my monocoque. If tomorrow I decide I want a lugged frame I'd get one. They're just hunks of carbon fiber and resin, nothing magic about them.

BTW how do you know mono frames are cheaper? 
How much does a mould cost? 
How many frames go through it before it is replaced?
How many moulds are used in a Dogma?
How many moulds are used for the C59?
How many man-hours of labour go into a Colnago C59?
Is the labour "general labour", semi-skilled or highly skilled?
How many man-hours of labour go into a Dogma?
What is the cost for raw materials in either frame?
What is the cost for manufacturing equipment ie cutting tables, mills, ovens, jigs+tooling, special storage for materials, warehouse space?
If can't answer all of these you can't even begin to talk about how much it costs to produce either frame.
Yet people blather on as if they had free access to the companies' intimate financial data.


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## Cinelli 82220

kbwh said:


> What makes people think monoque frames are not hand made?


Blissful ignorance. And pride. My bike is better than yours, therefore I am better than you.

I used to laugh at it but it gets pathetic after awhile.


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## Trek_5200

Cinelli 82220 said:


> Easier? Look at Colnago's own video, a grade seven dropout could put together a C59. The process was obviously engineered for Colnago by an outside supplier, those ovens on wheels have been around for a long time in other industries.
> 
> I can afford any bike I want. I happen to like my monocoque. If tomorrow I decide I want a lugged frame I'd get one. They're just hunks of carbon fiber and resin, nothing magic about them.
> 
> BTW how do you know mono frames are cheaper?
> How much does a mould cost?
> How many frames go through it before it is replaced?
> How many moulds are used in a Dogma?
> How many moulds are used for the C59?
> How many man-hours of labour go into a Colnago C59?
> Is the labour "general labour", semi-skilled or highly skilled?
> How many man-hours of labour go into a Dogma?
> What is the cost for raw materials in either frame?
> What is the cost for manufacturing equipment ie cutting tables, mills, ovens, jigs+tooling, special storage for materials, warehouse space?
> If can't answer all of these you can't even begin to talk about how much it costs to produce either frame.
> Yet people blather on as if they had free access to the companies' intimate financial data.


The cheapest carbon frames available are all monocoques.


----------



## Jay Strongbow

Trek_5200 said:


> I find it funny that people love monocoque frames so much. I understand why the manufacturers like them. They are cheaper and easier to manufacture, *but consumers should care about more than cost of production*.


yes, and that's a two way street and the funny thing is you seem to be the only one caring about cost of production. Costing more to make (lugs in Italy) is all you seem to be pointing towards as an advantage of this lugged frame.


----------



## stevesbike

Trek_5200 said:


> The cheapest carbon frames available are all monocoques.


so are the most expensive, e.g., Storck Fascenario 0.6 G2.


----------



## PaxRomana

stevesbike said:


> so are the most expensive, e.g., Storck Fascenario 0.6 G2.


In all fairness though, the price for that Storck includes the brakes and powercranks.
Still a very expensive bike, but it's now commonly sold at a 30% discount.


----------



## Trek_5200

Just noticed a number of sites with discounted prices for colnago c59 frames , wrench science, Merlin cycles.

Is this normal at winter time, or linked to the c60 coming out?


----------



## lbkwak

As a person in the industry, Colnago's top models aren't known for their reliability. 

I've seen many C40 and C50 with splitting headtubes and lugs splitting at the joints. I still love their Masterlight series, but if I want carbon, I'll go with others.


----------



## j.knight

lbkwak said:


> As a person in the industry, Colnago's top models aren't known for their reliability.
> 
> I've seen many C40 and C50 with splitting headtubes and lugs splitting at the joints. I still love their Masterlight series, but if I want carbon, I'll go with others.


I'm going to call B.S. Do you have any pictures?
Colnago has never had a recall or a documented case of a bike failing in competition.


----------



## wallymann

not true. C59 has italian BB threads which _everyone_ knows are superior to english BB threads and everything that has come since... 



stevesbike said:


> ...The M10 is superior to the C59 on every objective measure


----------



## Trek_5200

j.knight said:


> I'm going to call B.S. Do you have any pictures?
> Colnago has never had a recall or a documented case of a bike failing in competition.


Apparently for 2014 they made changes from the past year including stiffer chain stay, front fork and making room for wider tires 25cm tires. My guess is this is a hint of where they are taking the bike. They are going to make the bike stiffer, which seems to be they hype that drives the road bike audience.

Colnago C59 Italia 2014 frameset at twohubs.com - YouTube


----------



## Salsa_Lover

wallymann said:


> not true. C59 has italian BB threads which _everyone_ knows are superior to english BB threads and everything that has come since...


I think they went BSA since they switched to the Torayca Carbon for the EPS.

all my Colnagos have Italian BB


----------



## Salsa_Lover

Trek_5200 said:


> Apparently for 2014 they made changes from the past year including stiffer chain stay, front fork and making room for wider tires 25cm tires. My guess is this is a hint of where they are taking the bike. They are going to make the bike stiffer, which seems to be they hype that drives the road bike audience.


Then, I made the right move by getting my NOS C40 first. My C50 is stiff enough for me.


----------



## gofast2wheeler

Personally I hope they don't redesign it. Just bought my C59 this summer and would hate for it to be old and outdated already after spending a fortune. This is the last bike I can afford. Going to my grave with it. I was torn between this bike and the M10 which I really liked as well. I believe the M10 as stated by Colnago is stiffer than the C 59 and more a climbers bike as the C59 is more for long distance comfort. Totally 2 different machines with different purposes for its build. To say someone buys a C59 just because of nostalgia is really saying the bike is junk. I don't believe that to be the case. The bike is a fine riding bike, in my eyes the best. It exemplifies what Mr. Colnago felt is the best bike and how it should ride. I have not heard of any issues with there frames. I hope this is not true because this is my only bike and I ride it everywhere. No money to buy a replacement.


----------



## Trek_5200

Salsa_Lover said:


> Then, I made the right move by getting my NOS C40 first. My C50 is stiff enough for me.



Agreed. my c-59 is stiff enough too. The over-emphasis on bike stiffness reminds me o the Robert Parker efect on wines. Being a fruit bomb is deemed perfection and the quality trumps all others.


----------



## Trek_5200

Salsa_Lover said:


> Then, I made the right move by getting my NOS C40 first. My C50 is stiff enough for me.


They did this to make the c-59 italia and disc more standard and interchangeable. The revisions were probably needed for the disc set-up. if you aren't getting disc the changes to 2014 are more incidental than intended. And if you don't want or need stiffer, then not necessarily an upgrade over 2013. c59 is about stability and plushness and I don't believe the brand is about being the stiffest or lightest.


----------



## mriddle

As a person in the industry, you should know that the "joints" are actually called lugs...
Credibility?


----------



## 3MC

all of these C60 speculation is a waste of time! C59 design is just fine!


----------



## nightfend

3MC said:


> all of these C60 speculation is a waste of time! C59 design is just fine!


Well I have a Colnago EPS and love the bike, but it doesn't mean I can't dream of adding another one to my collection down the road. I just hope they stick with the lugged handbuilt Italian frame design.


----------



## Notvintage

gofast2wheeler said:


> Personally I hope they don't redesign it.


The C59 needs a major overhaul as it's design sucks. Ernesto too dumb to make the frame both mechanical/electrical compatible? Wilier did that some time ago with the Cento.


----------



## haydos

C59's have always used an English thread BBkt.

On the 2014 version there are two options - (Electronic only) or (Electronic and Mechanical).

Just thought i'd clear that up!


----------



## Trek_5200

haydos said:


> C59's have always used an English thread BBkt.
> 
> On the 2014 version there are two options - (Electronic only) or (Electronic and Mechanical).
> 
> Just thought i'd clear that up!


No, I think that's wrong. My understanding is that what you say was true up to 2013, but now the same bike is dual purpose, so you can start out mechanical and switch to electronic. Came with other changes as well. For 2014 they stiffened they stiffened the chainstays also with the goal of having the basic frame work for all the options Colnago makes. 

Correct me if i'm wrong, but fairly certain I read stuff to that effect. My nago is a 2012 mechanical.


----------



## haydos

They did make changes to allow bigger tyres and changed the chainstays. but there are now 2 versions of the frame. One which you can use both mechanical and electronic and one which is electronic only. That's exactly what I said above :thumbsup:


----------



## wallymann

haydos said:


> c59's have always used an english thread bbkt.


sacrelige!!!


----------



## Trek_5200

Seems fairly obvious now where the colnago C60 goes.
They keep lugs, stay made in italy and adopt some of the recent trends in bike design that others such as parlee have already gone towards namely tapered forks, and press fit bottom brackets.


----------



## ronderman

OMG, I read all this having missed it originally and just got a big laugh.

Who cares!!!!! Look people, the real-world performance difference on any given high-end frame is de minimis. You're not going to go faster - and yes, even the pros - but certainly dudes like us aren't going to go any faster. As for lug versus mono - I've ridden both and I like both - however, if I were going to keep a bike for more than a season you can bet it's going to be a lugged one. Ride over any rough patch of road and you can feel that a lugged parlee or Nago is just more solid than, say, an EVO. Sure the EVO can hack it, but my bet, over time of years and years - the nago or parlee will hold up more. Maybe not, but it sure as heck feels like it.

One buys a colnago - typically - for the italian-made artisan quality. You want mono and ligther - go for the M10 or whatever. Don't say one is better than the other, cause they aren't. Both are used by pros who have results almost any given pro would kill for. 

For me - the C60 or whatever is going to replace the c59 better be hand-made or assembled in Italy and better have some kickin paint (as of the last few years they've gone down in this regard - this year is much better).


----------



## Oldun

wallymann said:


> not true. C59 has italian BB threads which _everyone_ knows are superior to english BB threads and everything that has come since...


Sorry just seen this, I have two C59's and an M10 and they all have English BB's, my two masters have Italian though.


----------



## Trek_5200

Oldun said:


> Sorry just seen this, I have two C59's and an M10 and they all have English BB's, my two masters have Italian though.


well supposedly it's confirmed that colnago is switching to bb30


----------



## Oldun

Trek_5200 said:


> well supposedly it's confirmed that colnago is switching to bb30


That surprises me as the C59 BB's are as stiff as any other bike I have ever ridden and the carbon is really thick, can't see much if any advantage apart from a marketing ploy.


----------



## Trek_5200

Oldun said:


> That surprises me as the C59 BB's are as stiff as any other bike I have ever ridden and the carbon is really thick, can't see much if any advantage apart from a marketing ploy.


Could be other reasons, cost to produce, bike weight?


----------



## BDB

Colnago Japan posted this on facebook for Jan 1.


----------



## Trek_5200

BDB said:


> Colnago Japan posted this on facebook for Jan 1.


interesting. The Japan website advertises a titanium colnago which is not on their u.s. site.


----------



## Salsa_Lover

Looks like that Titanio is only made in sloping sizes, probably asian made like the aluminum ones ?

there are also Masters on the Mapei and AD14 color schemes


----------



## quikrick1

Notvintage said:


> The C59 needs a major overhaul as it's design sucks. *Ernesto too dumb* to make the frame both mechanical/electrical compatible? Wilier did that some time ago with the Cento.


Dang dude... That's a whole lotta 'dissin. Bet you wouldn't say that to his face.


----------



## carbonLORD

Who here actually owns a C59 *and* a monocoque frame?


:cornut:


----------



## Trek_5200

carbonLORD said:


> Who here actually owns a C59 *and* a monocoque frame?
> 
> 
> :cornut:


I have a c-59 and what ever kind of frame trek made back in 2001. What's the point of the question?


----------



## carbonLORD

Trek_5200 said:


> What's the point of the question?


To weed out the "I test rode the" and the "I have a (not model being discussed)" posters.

C60 will eventually come out, that much is true.


----------



## nightfend

carbonLORD said:


> Who here actually owns a C59 *and* a monocoque frame?


I only own a Colnago EPS and a Ridley Helium. But I suppose that is pretty close. In any case, the Ridley is a little stiffer, but I really do like the ride quality of the Colnago better. I guess I'd say it feels more stable on descents and absorbs road shock better.

In any case, as someone above mentioned, I don't really feel faster on either bike.


----------



## rplace13

carbonLORD said:


> Who here actually owns a C59 *and* a monocoque frame?
> 
> :cornut:


While not the latest and greatest from either camp, they were their top frames when made. I own a C-40 and Pinarello Prince. Not 100% sure but IIRC the C-40 is from 2003 (HP version) and the Prince from 08, reasonably close in years/technology I'd guess with a slight nod to the Pinarello in the tech dept. For sure one is lugged and the other monocoque. 

I love them both, anyone in the pro peloton could best me on my old 90's Kestrel 200sc 7-speed, or probably my MTB for that matter. The Prince climbs faster, corners better, accelerates faster and had more orange paint than that C-40. The C-40 makes me smile more. I l plan to keep both, but if I had a gun to my head I'd keep the C-40 and sell the Prince. If I could only keep one bike for the rest of my life...see you carbon/Italy, I'll keep my steel, Gunnar Hyper-X with its 25 pounds of weight and fender mounts...a minute slower on some Strava climbs, but the perfect do it all bike if you could only have one. Lucky for most of us Colnago owners we have more $$$ than sense or at a minimum we are eating Ramen noodles to fuel our bike habits. 

As for the C-60 please bring back the painters no matter if the frame is made in the boot or the far east.


----------



## Ride-Fly

carbonLORD said:


> Who here actually owns a C59 *and* a monocoque frame?
> 
> 
> :cornut:


Not a C59 but ....
i own own and ride two lugged carbons: a C40, and an Extreme C; and one carbon monocoque: a 2005 Fondriest TF1 Top Carbon. The TF1 was hand-laid by ATR (iirc), the same folks that do the carbon work for Ferrari. It's almost 10 years old, but I would bett dollars to donuts that it would match today's current monocoques stride for stride. As for the preference between a lugged and monocoque, based on my experience? It's hard to say, but I prefer the handling of the Colnago. I think they are a tad smoother too but not as quick as my TF1. Now, if I had a C59, and an M10, maybe I might sing a different tune.


----------



## BDB

Wrenchscience has some of the new colours of the C59 up on their webpage.


----------



## BDB

I thought this was the photos from the preview, but maybe not?

新城幸也がコルナゴ主催のパーティーでファンと交流　「来年もツールをメーンに。C60が楽しみ！」 - cyclist


----------



## Trek_5200

BDB said:


> Wrenchscience has some of the new colours of the C59 up on their webpage.


I like the AD04. Looks very c-40

 


<tbody>

</tbody>


----------



## Notvintage

Trek_5200 said:


> I like the AD04. Looks very c-40
> 
> 
> 
> <tbody>





</tbody>
Man! That AD04 IMO is the coolest looking color scheme since the Europcar scheme.


----------



## SactoGeoff

I've just read this entire thread and...oh brother. Just to clarify a few things:

I just finished a ride on my 2014 C59 - Art Décor (see desirable paint job Vs the new stuff few seem to like). Which I think is gorgeous BTW. 
Which is BOTH an EPS and mechanical compatible frameset. They revised it recently.
Which also has 25c tires on it. Someone above mentioned limited clearance.
And I purchased after the publicly announced price drop for 2014 C59.

All I can say about the C60 is that I hope Colnago sticks to what they believe is the best design (Vs some trends like a revision of a BB design from the early 90s...geesh)

Additionally I loved my C40. So I guess that makes me a traditional guy.


----------



## Oldun

carbonLORD said:


> Who here actually owns a C59 *and* a monocoque frame?
> 
> 
> :cornut:


I've done about 5000 miles combined on my C59's and about 500 Miles on the M10, no big rides on the M10 (as I have not had it long enough) but there is a major difference to the ride.

The C59's feel so steady and rock solid, they ease over the bumps and lumps of the road even when I'm riding Tubs at 140psi +, I've done many century rides on them and they are my choice for when comfort is the key.

From my short time with the M10, it is stiffer, I bought it to replace my R5 VWD as that was built like a pile of poo! The M10 is buzzier, you feel like attacking more, it is a little more responsive, but for multiple back to back century rides I don't think it would be my first choice over the C59's.

One of my C59's is SR Mechanical and the other is SR EPS, I wish that they could have been dual as I would run EPS all the time. The M10 dual ability works but isn't as tidy as the purpose built EPS/Di2 of my Europcar C59, however running the cables through on the C59 meant taking the forks out so that you could thread the cables through easier rather than buy a cable extension kit, whereas the M10 cables (This has Record EPS) were a lot easier to fit and modify.

If I had to choose then it would be the C59 every time, but I no longer race, so for pleasure that's my choice, the M10 is great for the Thursday night training rides, but they rarely go over 40-50 miles.


----------



## FrenchNago

Just got invited to the C60 preview in Paris by a Dealer.........but am keeping the C50 as my main ride.


----------



## Trek_5200

FrenchNago said:


> Just got invited to the C60 preview in Paris by a Dealer.........but am keeping the C50 as my main ride.


Please share. Weight weenies has a picture of the head tube. So far we know they are bringing back the old paint schemes which is really nice, adopting bb-30 bb standard, not so nice, and only offering sloping frames, giving up on traditional. Also appears the tubes will be similarly constructed to what is on the c-59 now.


----------



## FrenchNago

I will if i get there, its planned on the 16th of march and i might be away....


----------



## Trek_5200

FrenchNago said:


> I will if i get there, its planned on the 16th of march and i might be away....


Seems like the colnago c-60 changes were all tested on the cx zero, such as larger down tube, smaller seat stays, move to bb30 bottom bracket. An over-simplification perhaps but starting to think c-60 will be a lugged cx-0 with a nicer paint job.


----------



## Trek_5200

Looks cool!

http://www.colnago.com/COLNAGO-C60.pdf


----------



## ronderman

Thanks for sharing - is it just me or does the C60 not look a lot like a C59 with a different BB?


----------



## Trek_5200

Evolutionary , not revolutionary. I agree , but you could probably have said the same thing regarding the c-59 vs c-50 or c-50 vs c-40.. 

And the material says the major change was the bottom bracket. Sounds like they wanted to stiffen up and lighten the bike a little.

The material makes the c-60 very tempting, but fortunately I'm all to aware that my motor is my limiting factor, not the bike. Also I don't buy into the "need a stiffer bike" thing. Felt the c-59 was just fine.


----------



## Kenacycle

No need to speculate. It's officially posted http://www.colnago.com/COLNAGO-C60.pdf


----------



## Trek_5200

Kenacycle said:


> No need to speculate. It's officially posted http://www.colnago.com/COLNAGO-C60.pdf



Yea just posted this earlier, see two comments earlier.


----------



## Kenacycle

ya but no link


----------



## Trek_5200

Kenacycle said:


> ya but no link


sure

Looks cool!

http://www.colnago.com/COLNAGO-C60.pdf


----------



## mik_git

Me like, me want...


----------



## Trek_5200

mik_git said:


> Me like, me want...


They do seem to have copied De Rosa with regards to the fat down tube.


----------



## joeyb1000

I like the emphasis on comfort, but the rumor is that it is sloping only.


----------



## BDB

C60 RACING


----------



## carbonLORD

Not bad but glad I have a traditional C59 with English BB. Looks like I'll be keeping it for a while.


----------



## Trek_5200

carbonLORD said:


> Not bad but glad I have a traditional C59 with English BB. Looks like I'll be keeping it for a while.


All about engineering. Rider comfort and stiffness are what they went after, not weight. The c-60 only weighs about 40 grams less than a c-59.
Colnago C60 released, blending tradition with forward thinking - BikeRadar


----------



## carbonLORD

Point is, the design is plenty stiff, and compliant, and I ride a 60cm frame. I don't really need a sloping top tube and if weight wasn't the focus, then its really a miss. Sloping tt's work for short riders. BB30 works great on my other bike, no issues there. Some say the achilles heel to the C59 was it's weight, yet I have a 15lbs complete with deep clinchers so again, what is so groundbreaking here? I was honestly expecting a little more than a frame that, for the most part looks identical to it's predecesor. Again, I would not buy one unless it's offered as a traditional. There are many comparable, lighter sloping bikes out there that cost less, but again, at least I am satisfied with what I have, and based on what I see here have no desire to upgrade for 40 grams that I could save double on with the use of lighter inner tubes (where rotational weight might actually make a difference).


----------



## mikerp

Kenacycle said:


> No need to speculate. It's officially posted http://www.colnago.com/COLNAGO-C60.pdf


Guess that answered the lug question.
Nice looking ride. 
I'm concentrating on the Campy version.


----------



## Mockenrue

It will be available in five traditional sizes: GEOMETRY C60

This video is worth a look:


----------



## mikerp

Great video, a true work of art.


----------



## Trek_5200

mikerp said:


> Great video, a true work of art.


Looks like this is a very costly part of the build and takes some time. Something to think about when justifying the price tag.


----------



## Devastazione

My LBS told me i can have one by the end of april if i want....mmmmmmh..very tempted..


----------



## Trek_5200

Stiffer and less plush
First Ride Review: Colnago?s New C60 Race Bike | Bicycling Magazine
-------------------------

Compared with the C59, the C60 frame is bigger, stiffer, and slightly lighter.

While stiffer, the C60 is also slightly lighter than the C59. To decrease weight, Colnago thinned tube walls and developed a new set of forged and machined aluminum dropouts. The claimed weight of a painted 52cm C60 is 1,050 grams, 25 grams lighter than the C59. Though updated, the C60’s 1 1/8- to 1 ¼-inch tapered-steerer fork is the same weight as the C59’s: 390 grams.

The C60 is notably stiffer than the C59, and more in line with the ideal of the modern superbike. It nearly achieves the jumpiness of the very fastest-feeling bikes. I’d call it comfortable, not plush, just slightly springy. It’s almost smooth, slightly compliant—more so than most modern carbon race bikes—and more damped than bright and buzzy. Overall, it seems to pass the good and pleasant sensations on to the rider while taking away most of the bad.


----------



## FrenchNago

Another view from the Colnago CC blog:

COLNAGO NEWS AND REVIEWS


----------



## Sun Rider

C60 at dealers. Colnago C60 Carbon Framesets Road Bikes | Colnago USA Dealer


----------



## Trek_5200

Sun Rider said:


> C60 at dealers. Colnago C60 Carbon Framesets Road Bikes | Colnago USA Dealer


saw that. colors are quite limited. i think a lot of people wait until the full color schemes are available. of course some people always have to be first on the block with the new toy, and they will certainly have the joy of showing it off.


----------



## BDB

It's a little surprising that they are so limited.


----------



## Trek_5200

BDB said:


> It's a little surprising that they are so limited.


also saw that c-59 will be around till 2017. I'm biased of course but think the c-59 is a better value.


----------



## BDB

Value how? the price difference appears to be ~$300.

Not a lot in the grand scheme of a $6000 bike?


----------



## Trek_5200

BDB said:


> Value how? the price difference appears to be ~$300.
> 
> Not a lot in the grand scheme of a $6000 bike?


Simple. Right now the c-60 is going for list, while the c-59 italia is and has been available at discounts. Wrench science had a sale for 4800 i seem to recall, right now r&a has some at 4500. there are probably other places.


----------



## BDB

Colnago Japan as usual have the high res photos available

https://www.colnago.co.jp/2014/products/c60/images/L_01.jpg

Am torn between the OFCG and OFMA.. It's either that or just get a C59 in AD10.


???????????-COLNAGO


----------



## drmarg

I contacted my local Colnago dealer to learn more about the availability of the C60. He indicated the US is getting 100 frames and they are nearly all sold! It's amazing to know that people will drop over $6k on a ride untested; all based on reputation of the brand and the success of the C-59.


----------



## Trek_5200

drmarg said:


> I contacted my local Colnago dealer to learn more about the availability of the C60. He indicated the US is getting 100 frames and they are nearly all sold! It's amazing to know that people will drop over $6k on a ride untested; all based on reputation of the brand and the success of the C-59.


Not amazing at all. First you are talkinga bout 100 frames, which is a very small number, second six thousand dollars is only marginally more than list for c-59 and not out of line with many high end frames, and lastly the reputation of Colnago is excellent if only looking at c-40, c50,c59 etc. Geometry on c-60 will be identical to c-59

Very low risk in my opinion. And the lucky 100 get bragging rights while everyone else gawks. I wouldn't reccomend buying this way, but don't see it as a bad decision in the least.


----------



## mriddle

What's actually amazing (at least to me) is that people here in the US will actually pay 6K-ish for this frame when you can buy them from Europe for much less.

I've bought several Colnago frames over the past 10 years, never from US sources. Last year I bought a C59 in ADWH (+$200 in US) and matching seapost for $3,500 delivered to my door. Shiny Bikes has C60s for $4600 US. 

Don't even start with warranty BS, it's a small world. Global economy is good. Same for Campagnolo...


----------



## Trek_5200

mriddle said:


> What's actually amazing (at least to me) is that people here in the US will actually pay 6K-ish for this frame when you can buy them from Europe for much less.
> 
> I've bought several Colnago frames over the past 10 years, never from US sources. Last year I bought a C59 in ADWH (+$200 in US) and matching seapost for $3,500 delivered to my door. Shiny Bikes has C60s for $4600 US.
> 
> Don't even start with warranty BS, it's a small world. Global economy is good. Same for Campagnolo...


Right now do those deals even exist on a c-60. just like plasma tv's when they first came out, people pay up so they can show off their wares and get bragging rights. I think the time to look for deals won't begin for at least two years, and the real deals won't be had until they start getting ready for the c-70. In the meantime without looking too hard I've seen c-59 being discounted by roughly 25% off list.


----------



## mik_git

Seems c60's are cheaper here in australia then with you guys in the US, muhahahaa!


----------



## BDB

the Shiny Bikes Price is
£3324.95
including VAT 20% ( £554.16 ) 

So 2770 minus the vat and add in ~100 for shipping? 

2,870.00 GBP = 4,769.74 USD

But there's really only one place to order a Colnago ...


----------



## mik_git

hmmm, thats interesting, as that 2770 comes in at $5070 AU, but then when it lands we'll get hit with 10% GST and 5% import tax on anything over $1000 comes in at around ~$AU5800 and the retail price is a bit over $AU5700 here. Plus add on whatever shipping. But of course thats australia, vs the US.


----------



## BDB

on my last 2 frames to the US there was no tax, I think in general no tax on imports of bike frames, the whole tariff stuff is weird related to bikes, so most of it comes in without any tax.


----------



## BDB

And my order is in..

52S in the OFCG colour! So much excitement.

Ordered from Mike at Maestro - price was even cheaper than Shiny!


----------



## Trek_5200

BDB said:


> And my order is in..
> 
> 52S in the OFCG colour! So much excitement.
> 
> Ordered from Mike at Maestro - price was even cheaper than Shiny!


very exciting. hope you enjoy it at least as much as I enjoy my c-59


----------



## Cinelli 82220

drmarg said:


> all based on reputation of the brand and the success of the C-59.


Not based on the C59.

Based on Colnago's sixty years of legacy. Colnago has always built his frames his own way. People who bought the C60 weren't taking a shot in the dark. They had a very good idea what they would be getting.


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## Trek_5200

Cinelli 82220 said:


> Not based on the C59.
> 
> Based on Colnago's sixty years of legacy. Colnago has always built his frames his own way. People who bought the C60 weren't taking a shot in the dark. They had a very good idea what they would ne getting.


Yes the idea that buying a c60 i like buying an unknown product is ludicrous.


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## BDB

Europcar are going to run the C60 in the Giro in the OFCG Colour, so I guess my order will drop back a little in the queue!


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## drmarg

Mine too BDB. I ordered this one two weeks ago from Wrench Science. They gave me a good deal due to past business but not as good as some of the retailers over seas!!!


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## Salsa_Lover

Some pics of the C60 here at the Savile Road Facebook page

https://www.facebook.com/media/set/?set=a.407082722762510.1073741865.167444976726287&type=1


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## tmluk

I haven't visited this forum for years. Yesterday, I discovered that Colnago had officially launched the C60. Beautiful bike. But most of all, I am so glad that Ernesto Colnago who is in his 80's can see the launch of the C60 since his original Master 1983-84, C40, C50 .. now C60! I wish him all the best and look forward to C70.

Still enjoying my rides - Master and C50.


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## Salsa_Lover

special order versions seem to be possible


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## Cinelli 82220

Salsa_Lover said:


> special order versions seem to be possible


I want this one.


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## Salsa_Lover

Cinelli 82220 said:


> I want this one.


COLNAGO 60 ARASHIRO'S BIKE Limited Edition - Prezzo ? 3.699,00

60 days delivery time


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## BDB

That's lovely! 

My OFCG C60 is in at maestro, and I've paid for it, so should be on its way soon..


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## BDB

BDB said:


> That's lovely!
> 
> My OFCG C60 is in at maestro, and I've paid for it, so should be on its way soon..


It is here- Hopefully get the parts swapped over from my CX-1 next week!


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## Trek_5200

BDB said:


> It is here- Hopefully get the parts swapped over from my CX-1 next week!


Congrats. Colnagos are special bikes. I love my c-59


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## PaxRomana

Side by side, I was surprised at how different the two bikes felt. The C60 tubes feel much thinner, but Colnago compensated through larger diameters. The C59 tubes felt stronger. I liked the C60's look. Not worth the retail asking price, but I think for the Maestro price, it's a very worthy choice.


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## Trek_5200

PaxRomana said:


> Side by side, I was surprised at how different the two bikes felt. The C60 tubes feel much thinner, but Colnago compensated through larger diameters. The C59 tubes felt stronger. I liked the C60's look. Not worth the retail asking price, but I think for the Maestro price, it's a very worthy choice.


When you say "feel" do you mean you simply touched them or rode them? Am curious to riding impressions.


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## Devastazione

Trek_5200 said:


> When you say "feel" do you mean you simply touched them or rode them? Am curious to riding impressions.


I agree with PaxRomana,I've recently seen a C60 in the flesh for the very first time at my LBS here in Italy and of course I was craving to touch it. To my surprise the anabolized squared tubes don't match up with the perceived thinnes and the superb,ultra detailed matte paint job. I have to admit it,it's quite an unpleasant feel. I wish I could test ride one,I'm still on the fence between a C60 or a 2015 Tarmac,or keep my trusty Roubaix for another year.


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## Trek_5200

Devastazione said:


> I agree with him,I've seen a C60 in the flesh for the very first time at my LBS here in Italy and of course I was craving to touch it. To my surprise the anabolized squared tubes don't match up with the perceived thinnes and superb,ultra detailed and even matte paint job. I have to admit it,it's quite an unpleasant feel. I wish I could test ride one,I'm still on the fence between a C60 or a 2015 Tarmac,or keep my trusty Roubaix for another year.


When I read what Colnago was doing here, I immediately looked at the discussion on custom frame builders and tubing choices. Seemed uniform that larger tubes and making them thinner would make the rider stiffer and harsher and reduce plushness. I'm not sure how Colnago is able to truly compensate for this in the rear seat stay.


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## BDB

Finally have it 95% Complete. Couple of issues at the shop while they put it together for me.. 

one being the mechanic crashed it and broke my bars, not his fault. the 15t on the cassette exploded! Campy replaced it and the bars.

Current Weight 15lb 15oz

New front Hub to come. Full details and photos to follow.

It rides so much stiffer than the CX-1

Instagram

Instagram

Instagram


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## mikerp

BDB said:


> Finally have it 95% Complete. Couple of issues at the shop while they put it together for me..
> 
> one being the mechanic crashed it and broke my bars, not his fault. the 15t on the cassette exploded! Campy replaced it and the bars.
> 
> Current Weight 15lb 15oz
> 
> New front Hub to come. Full details and photos to follow.
> 
> It rides so much stiffer than the CX-1
> 
> Instagram
> 
> Instagram
> 
> Instagram


Looks nice, I'm trying to understand you what happened with the 15T cog.


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## BDB

Under dowhill acceleration the 15T basically split in half, which locked the chain and the mechanic went over the bars. I've had a friend have the same thing happen to him with is Campy Cassette. Which seems odd.

Chorus cassette.


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