# cannondale hollowgram cranks with FSA rings?



## veloci1

i dropped off my bike at the local bike shop to have my new hollowgram cranks installed last night. i got a great team deal so i went for it. of course today i get stock at work and i was not going to make it to the shop before they closed. i asked my beautiful wife to pick up the bike for me and she did.
i get home and to my surprise, the cranks have FSA rings on them. 

did i get ripped off here? are the FSA better(stiffer) than the rings that come with the Hollogram cranks? 
i am a little irritated i was not told about this, but, maybe they gave me something better and i am over reacting,

anyone?:nonod::nonod::nonod::nonod:


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## CHL

Veloci1:

Looking at the website, it looks like Cannondale does not use the MKV chainrings anymore. It's a shame because they shift crisply (on par with DA7800 imho) and are beautiful, like the Campagnolo chainrings.

There are plenty of options for you, if you do not like the FSA chainrings. You can try to find a set of MK V on Ebay or your could look at Specialites T/A or at Stronglight. I'm sure the FSA chainrings shift nicely, but they are heavier and are right down ugly. 

chl


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## bikerclancy

*Hollowgram chainrings*

I had same question. Apparently the FSA Super Pro chainrings are now standard unless you buy the SuperSix Evo Ultimate, at least from the pictures on the Cannondale website.


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## zamboni

I got a 2011 Team edition and came with 11 spd FSA rings on Si crank set.


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## veloci1

i was told by the LBS what you guys have just told me. these FSA rings are the standard now and are suppose to shift better and be stiffer. i am 185 lbs, so, if i were to order a different set of rings, will Stronglight be as stiff as the FSA?
i could go SRAM RED Black too.

any first hand experiences or opinions on this situation?


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## trauma-md

The MKIV and MKV chainrings were definitely a work of CNC art, and the NoNutz chainring bolting was super slick, but they are less stiff than FSA/SRAM rings. I've had experience with a lot of different drivetrains and using them with various front chainrings and I would say that functionally the FSA Supers are better than the MK's. They aren't as pretty and definitely not as light, but they'll last longer and shift more crisply.


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## veloci1

how can i tell if i got the FSA Super?

i have a set of SRAM Red Black, so, if i am able to identify that i have a set of FSA super, i will keep them. if not, them SRAM it is.


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## trauma-md

veloci1 said:


> how can i tell if i got the FSA Super?
> 
> i have a set of SRAM Red Black, so, if i am able to identify that i have a set of FSA super, i will keep them. if not, them SRAM it is.


The Super Road rings are the ones you see pictured on the Evo Di2 and Dura Ace. They are solid rings with no cut outs. The Pro versions have the cut outs and are slightly lighter, but not as stiff.

If you have the SRAM Red black rings, those are pretty stiff too. Using the SRAM gives you that awesome all black look!


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## hypercycler

Anyone knows if the MK V rings work with 11 speed also? I now running Campy's SR drivetrain with the the FSA rings on the crank.... Tks~!


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## trauma-md

hypercycler said:


> Anyone knows if the MK V rings work with 11 speed also? I now running Campy's SR drivetrain with the the FSA rings on the crank.... Tks~!


Compliments of Lennie Z!

"With this feedback, I have to officially recommend against using an 11-speed chain with 10-speed chainrings, at least Campagnolo (and Fulcrum) ones. And Campagnolo is very clear in its warranty policy that nothing is covered unless the entire 11-speed group is used together — no substitutions.

However, I’ve been riding for months on 10-speed cranks with the 11-speed Super Record group, and I’ve never had any problem. I’ve used it with both SRAM Red chainrings and Shimano Ultegra SL chainrings without a hint of shifting hesitation, much less getting stuck. And as you may have read in my article on Shimano Di2 electronic in the current print edition of VeloNews, I shifted this combination under extreme loads repeatedly, trying to duplicate the performance of the electronic front derailleur with a cable-actuated one.

As I feel is my duty, I will continue to try cross-compatibility issues, since lots of readers ask me about them. They expect an answer other than the one the manufacturer would give, which is of course always to the effect that all of the parts need to be used together as a system.

I avoid advising people on setups I have not tried, but I’ve tried this one pretty thoroughly, albeit not with Campy 10-speed chainrings. Similarly, when the change from 9-speed to 10 came, I used 9-sped cranks on 10-speed groups interchangeably for years and never had a problem.

As I have switched Campy, SRAM, and Shimano 10-speed cranks all around on each other’s 10-speed groups for years without problems, I would not have expected that it would have mattered which brand of 10-speed cranks you used with the 11-speed chain, but perhaps it does. I have to say that I’m very surprised. The chain is 0.5mm narrower than the Campy 10-speed chain. That’s not much.

......

Campagnolo’s 5.9mm-wide 10-speed chain (its first-generation 10-speed chains were 6.1mm wide) allows 10 cogs to fit in the same space that used to only accept nine with the wider 9-speed chain and cogset, and now the even narrower 5.4mm wide 11-speed chain allows 11 cogs to fit in that same space. The thickness of the spacers on either side of each cog has come down as far as 2.2mm with 11-speed, whereas the width of each chain roller and thickness of each cog has stayed the same. The tooth-to-tooth distance on Campagnolo 9-speed is 4.55mm, 4.15mm on Campagnolo 10-speed, and 3.9mm on Campagnolo 11-speed. Chainring tooth spacing is hard to measure, because of the height difference between the two rings, but the spacing between cogs is only 0.25mm less on 11-speed than on 10-speed! That’s not much.

One final note: When I told Dave Batka, the president of Wheels Manufacturing, about this jammed chain, he said: “I hate to say it, Lennard, but I can’t believe this at all. I’ve got 600 miles on my new 11-speed chain with 10-speed chainrings and it has never even come close to jamming in between the chainrings. You may quote me, if you wish.”

So there you have it, from both sides of the debate. Forewarned is forearmed.
Lennard"


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## CHL

Hi trauma-md:

You seemed to have good experience with a wide variety of chainrings. Many of our colleagues are worried about poor shifting performance with some chainrings. Reading the online articles, many writers harp on chainring stiffness to nausea. Would the average rider even notice this?

I'm 5'5 and weight in around 125-128lbs. I have NEVER EVER felt any flex in the chainrings (RSX, Ultegra 6600, DA7701, MKV, Specialites TA Hegoa). If my chain hits the inner/outer cage of my front derailleur, it's because I have misadjusted the front derailleur. 

Would a heavier rider who winds up a 53/11 with ease feel the flex in chainrings? Petacchi and Cipollini, both, won so many sprints using chainrings with relieved areas to reduce weight and provide a pleasing appearance. I doubt that those two gentlemen would have settled for subpar performance.

chl


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## veloci1

I just ordered a set of Praxis Works in black. They have a reputation for being stiff and a great design. I will get them by Thursday and I will report back on Sunday.
Wish me luck.


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## trauma-md

CHL,

When I have assessed the "stiffness" of chainrings it is during shifting, rather than actual pedaling. I agree that it would be difficult for guys like us (5'7" 132lbs) to be able to objectify that stiffness when pedaling, at our wattage especially. I definitely notice much crisper and definitive shifting to "stiffer" chainrings than the others. For example, I tried MKV chainrings with my Di2 set up and although it shifted, it was a very noticeable blunting of the normal (FSA Super) shift feel. With stiffer front chainrings, you'll experience crisper and more definitive shifts.


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## hypercycler

Thanks MD for the info. Guess I'll start looking for some MK V chainrings now. They'd look great on my black SS


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## bikerclancy

Just received my MKV chainrings (both compact and standard). Can't wait to get them mounted on my SystemSix and prayer for some good weather!


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## -dustin

Praxis rings are pretty solid. I prefer them over SRAM and FSA rings (nothing compares to Shimano). Won't waste my time with anything else. 










This is all I've got with them + the bike + SI SLs


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## tranzformer

-dustin said:


> Praxis rings are pretty solid. I prefer them over SRAM and FSA rings (nothing compares to Shimano). Won't waste my time with anything else.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> This is all I've got with them + the bike + SI SLs



How much did you get your chainrings for? I see them on their website for $170. Isn't that a bit pricey or are they worth it?


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## -dustin

I got mine at Interbike. 

We charge $170 for them and they are worth it. Cheaper than Shimano. That's about all I can say.


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## tranzformer

-dustin said:


> I got mine at Interbike.
> 
> We charge $170 for them and they are worth it. Cheaper than Shimano. That's about all I can say.


If they were cheaper I would try them. But my Stronglight CT2 rings are stiff and light and much cheaper.


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## -dustin

Odd. I just built a Super Six with SIs and those Stronglight CT2 rings and thought they shifted like ****. Put my old FSA rings on to get the customer going, and it shifted much better. He ordered some Praxis rings.

But yeah, if they're working for you, no reason to bother looking elsewhere. If you find something that works, stick with it. I might have a set of CT2 for sale, if you want them.


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## haolerider

veloci1 said:


> I just ordered a set of Praxis Works in black. They have a reputation for being stiff and a great design. I will get them by Thursday and I will report back on Sunday.
> Wish me luck.


how's the praxis rings working? any pics?


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## zamboni

-dustin said:


> Odd. I just built a Super Six with SIs and those Stronglight CT2 rings and thought they shifted like ****. Put my old FSA rings on to get the customer going, and it shifted much better. He ordered some Praxis rings.
> 
> But yeah, if they're working for you, no reason to bother looking elsewhere. If you find something that works, stick with it. I might have a set of CT2 for sale, if you want them.


Justin,

Are you running 10 or 11 spds on Si crank?


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## veloci1

Praxis rings are running great. They shift as smooth as the FSA one, but, are a little lighter. I am glad I got them. There is no flex that I can tell. The finish of the black rings I got is just perfect.
I will post pictures today.

BTW, I have my FSA compact 50/34 for sale. $60 if anyone is interested. They have about 100 miles or so.


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## -dustin

zamboni said:


> Justin,
> 
> Are you running 10 or 11 spds on Si crank?


10sp.


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## tranzformer

-dustin said:


> I might have a set of CT2 for sale, if you want them.



I am interested. PM me with more details.


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## veloci1

here is the bike with the new rings. They are performing well, but, my front shifting seems to be a little slower than with the red rings. same as the FSA, but, a little slower than Red rings. i will take it to the LBS to be looked at. but, overall i am happy with them.


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## ARPRINCE

*Interested in Praxis*

Interested on the Praxis CR and was checking out their website. Was it just a matter of removing the chain rings for installation (no adapters, same spider)? Did the CR come with bolts or I need new bolts for the Hollows since it is not integrated? TIA



veloci1 said:


> Praxis rings are running great. They shift as smooth as the FSA one, but, are a little lighter. I am glad I got them. There is no flex that I can tell. They finish of the black rings I got is just perfect.
> I will post pictures today.
> 
> BTW, I have my FSA compact 50/34 for sale. $60 if anyone is interested. They have about 100 miles or so.


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## veloci1

arprince, i used the same bolts that came with my Cannondale hollowgram. no adaptors or special bolts needed 

i am using SRAM Red 10 speed. i am not sure if the same applies for Campy or Shimano. 

the CR work great with my set up. i dare say that these are stiffer than the SRAM Red rings.


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## ARPRINCE

Ohhh OK. I see that you are using the FSA CRs. I'm using the old ones where the CRs are threaded so I only have the front bolt. That's why I'm asking if there was a need to replace the spider or it was a perfect fit. Thanks.


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## ARPRINCE

*Easy to install?*



veloci1 said:


> here is the bike with the new rings. They are performing well....


 It looks really nice and I'm planning to order it today. Do you need to remove the crank arm to install the CRs or just slide off the old ones and slide in the Praxis without disassembly? TIA


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## veloci1

no need to remove the cranks. though, the small ring will requiere a little work, but, it is doable.

you will love these rings.


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## bikerclancy

LBS just finished installation of Hollowgram crank with compact MKV chainrings. Mechanic commented that shifting was great and rings were stiff in his test ride. Drivetrain is SRAM Force Front/Red Rear; DA 7800 Cassette and 7900 Chain. Hopefully weather cooperates this weekend so I can verify.

Bike looks much better than with old Red compact crank and rings.


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## oldgoat

Got my 2012 EVO with Dura ace a few months ago. Came with FSA chain rings which I still dont care for the looks, but they shift great. So I just dont look at the rings and just ride


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## ARPRINCE

*Got mine....*



veloci1 said:


> Praxis rings are running great. They shift as smooth as the FSA one, but, are a little lighter. I am glad I got them. There is no flex that I can tell. The finish of the black rings I got is just perfect.....


Got mine (50/34) yesterday but I still have to install it. 115 grams (just the CRs) if that matters to anyone.


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## ARPRINCE

ARPRINCE said:


> Got mine (50/34) yesterday but I still have to install it. 115 grams (just the CRs) if that matters to anyone.


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## nathanbal

what do people think are the better option - FSA super road or SRAM Red?


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## bikerclancy

Is the blue highlighting a standard color?


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## ARPRINCE

bikerclancy said:


> Is the blue highlighting a standard color?


They only carry Black Silver, Orang Silver and Solid Black. They did tell me that they plan to have different colors in the future. 

I wanted to color match my bike so I experimented on using METALCAST. The bolts are natural anodized color so I tried to match it (depends on how many spray pass you do).

The pictures I posted yesterday where from the iPhone which is over saturated. Below closely resembles the color.

<img src="https://img810.imageshack.us/img810/7991/dpp4791.jpg" width="750" height="500">


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## bikerclancy

Thanks for the info. Looks great and would match my PatrIot Blue SystemSix. I might give it a try when I need new CRs.


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## Praxis Works

veloci1 said:


> here is the bike with the new rings. They are performing well, but, my front shifting seems to be a little slower than with the red rings. same as the FSA, but, a little slower than Red rings. i will take it to the LBS to be looked at. but, overall i am happy with them.


Veloci1 - Drop us a call at our Santa Cruz office as I'd like to hear more about your shifting and help out.
Thanks!
[email protected]


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## metoou2

*Metalcast*

ARPRINCE
I was admiring your work in turning the chainrings and CR bolts blue. I followed your link to the Metalcast product. I want to paint some natural colored alloy CR bolts RED. Could you tell me the steps you took and the actual product / products you used. Duplicolor.com has many products for sale and it is a bit confusing.
many thanks


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## ARPRINCE

metoou2 said:


> ARPRINCE
> I was admiring your work in turning the chainrings and CR bolts blue. I followed your link to the Metalcast product. I want to paint some natural colored alloy CR bolts RED. Could you tell me the steps you took and the actual product / products you used. Duplicolor.com has many products for sale and it is a bit confusing.
> many thanks


Thanks. I used DUPLICOLOR METALCAST MC201 Blue Anodized. I got it at my local Advance Auto Parts. You can buy it online and pick it up at the nearest store if they have it on stock. 

I did not paint the CR bolts, only the CR. If you plan to, it would be better to just buy a colored finish at ebay. 

If you are planning to paint something else, make sure the bare alloy is clean. I used alcohol. I used a blue paint tape to make an impression of part of the CR I wanted to paint. Cut it out and put it back covering the black part. I made several passes until I matched the color of the CR bolts. Make sure that the paint is dry before making each pass. I used a portable heater for this. After my last pass, I left it overnight.

Having said that, it was only yesterday that I was able to take out my bike and ride it. But what a difference the PRAXIS CR was compared to my MKV CR imo. The shifting was smooth and instantaneous. Definitely stiffer. Really happy with this product. :thumbsup:


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## ARPRINCE

bikerclancy said:


> Thanks for the info. Looks great and would match my PatrIot Blue SystemSix. I might give it a try when I need new CRs.


Yes. By that time, they might have come out with this already (which was what I wanted on the first place - *sigh*).











Then again, I think my current CR color scheme fits my crank perfectly!


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## frafoss

I have the Hollowgram SL crank with MKV 50/34 rings. I think the gap between 50 to 34 is to big so I'm looking for a 36 chainring. I can't find any MKV in 36t so I got a SRAM Red 36t, but it wouldn't fit. The MKV 34t is threaded and SRAM not.

Where can I find a 36t chainring which is plug and play?


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## metoou2

You won't find a 36 tooth c-ring with threaded bolt holes.
You CAN run your MK V 50 tooth with the 36 tooth you bought. Buy a standard set of chainring bolts and the (2) chainrings will mount together just fine. 

I've been swapping out some c-rings and happened to have a set of compact Cannondale MK V's, 50 tooth and a 'normal' 36 tooth c-ring setting in my shop and I confirmed it will work.


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## tranzformer

Would you guys go with Praxis rings or the SRAM Red black as replacements?


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## -dustin

Praxis


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## veloci1

Praxis for sure.


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## tranzformer

Is that because they are the new hot thing?


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## veloci1

Praxis shift better and are stiffer. I had the FSA and red. I did feel a difference. If you can get a deal on the red, then, get the red. If you are paying retail on the red, then, get the praxis. I like the Praxis, but, if I wanted to save money, then, red I would get.
Red chainrings are easier to get on sale than Praxis.


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## tranzformer

^ I keep hearing good things about Praxis rings from different posts. Just wasn't sure if I should drink the Kool-Aid. Best deal I have found for the Red black rings is around $95. For the Praxis I have seen them for $170.


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## veloci1

it seems like it is almost impossible to get a good discount on the Praxis. but, honestly as much as i like the Praxis, they are not $80 plus better.

just my 2 cents

e-mail me. i have a set of Hollowgram SI with Praxis rings, compact on my current ride that i might have to sell. the Hollowgram does not play nice with the new Red shifters and front der. there is always some kind of rubbing. i ordered the new Exogram Cranks and they are supposed to come in soon.


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## Praxis Works

Hi guys, 
Just wanted to chime in and give some insight from us. 

Our primary goal is shift quality. But to add to that, we want long term shift quality for you also. 
Cold Forging allows us to create our complex tooth profiles we need to move the chain quickly and smoothly...and the great added bonus of the forging process is that it creates a harder tougher tooth for longevity/durability. We are physically changing the aluminum characteristics through the forging process...._and you just can't get that with traditional machining._ Sure...some rings are less expensive, some lighter.... but we wanted to create the most balanced ring set out there with the highest shift quality for the buck...that's all. 

We're humble and small....and really excited to have this level of shift quality and exclusive manufacturing available to shops and consumers at the price point they are at. And as always, if someone buys a set from our online store and is unhappy within 30 days of purchase, we'll for sure offer full credit back + any applicable taxes as our store states. 

Chime us if you have any specific questions...be glad to answer. 

[email protected]


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## tranzformer

^ Adam thanks for chiming in. Just curious how much you think front shifting is dependent on FD setup vs chainring design/stiffness? Will a well setup Praxis behave the same as a well setup chainring from one of your competitors?


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## Praxis Works

Hey Tranzformer... 

The reality is there a MANY things that can effect shift quality. FD setup, chain, chainring, cable tension, and a host of other immeasurable things. We feel the rings are still the heart of it all, and we do everything we can to make our rings work as best they can in a variety of drivetrain setups. You can see it how complex the teeth are. It's an ungodly amount of sculpting and design our engineers do to not only make them shift fast, but to be light, stiff, and durable.
However, with all the personal setups out there....you can and will get varying degrees of shift quality. That is why we do suggest certain chains also. 
BUT that being said....with all the testing and retesting we do, when you simply change out your CNC'd stock rings to our rings, what people are noticing_ (and writing about)_ is a very dramatic upgrade of shift quality. It is very noticeable. 

We're bike nerds to the bone...and we know the onus is on us to get the story out. It's a one customer at a time thing for us because _we know and respect that what people feel in a drivetrain is hugely subjective. _I can type or talk till I turn blue....but until someone puts them on and gives them the old 'Pepsi Challenge' it's all me squawking. It really is up to you and how you feel they shift for you.

We're super proud of these rings, and think you'll be pretty impressed. 

Hope that helps!
[email protected]


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## ARPRINCE

Praxis Works said:


> We're super proud of these rings, and think you'll be pretty impressed.
> 
> Hope that helps!
> [email protected]


When are you coming out with the BLUE LIQUID ANO compact road 50/34?


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## bikerclancy

When they do, I'll be in line to replace my Cannondale rings as the blue will match my SystemSix!


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## isoriano97

Just received my Praxis compact chainring set - upgrading from an FSA set. 
Set-up is Dura-Ace with Hollowgram cranks. Noticed a significant improvement in upshifting on the front derailleur from the small to the big ring. comparable with my other bike with complete Shimano Dura-Ace. 

just my 2 cents...


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## CapnC

I chipped the 50t MKV chainring on my hollowgram in a crash. I got a set of replacement 52/36 red rings for a pretty good price, although not entire sure i want to move from 50/34 to 52/36. From reading this it looks like the only thing I'll need for the install is a new set of chainring bolts right? I don't need to remove the crank?


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## Dan Gerous

CapnC said:


> I chipped the 50t MKV chainring on my hollowgram in a crash. I got a set of replacement 52/36 red rings for a pretty good price, although not entire sure i want to move from 50/34 to 52/36. From reading this it looks like the only thing I'll need for the install is a new set of chainring bolts right? I don't need to remove the crank?


Correct, you can turn the rings to fit them without taking the crank off... and yeah, the No-Nuts bolts wont work. With the bigger ring though, you will probably need to move the front derailleur up a bit.


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## CapnC

Thanks for the tips! I think I'm going to grab a set of the KCNC chainring bolts off ebay, I've been happy with their products in the past. Will update once I get the new rings installed.


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## RCMTB

So I bought some Hollowgrams and was going to have my lbs install them, but they couldn't get to it until late next week. So I will do the install myself this weekend. After reading the installation guide online it looks like a pretty straight forward install. I have a 2012 CAAD10 and the only part that concerns me is the spacing on the drive side. How many flat washers is a good starting point? I ordered the kt013 tool remover, but probably won't arrive until next week so if I need to remove the crank it will have to wait until next week and that's why I'm looking for recommendations for flat washer starting point. Thanks in advance!


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## -dustin

Start w/ 2.


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## RCMTB

-dustin said:


> Start w/ 2.


Cool, thanks!!


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## RCMTB

Install went great! Ended up just needing two spacers as recommended. Went for a ride today and I could tell a noticeable difference in stiffness over the Gossamer Pro's. Also, the bike feels so much lighter with the Hollowgrams. I will post some pictures later this week.

Here is a picture. Not so great of a picture though.


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