# What Tire Pressure Do You Run?



## ex_machina (Oct 20, 2015)

I have a secteur elite, with michelin pro service course 4 installed. They are labeled as 25 mm, but measure closer to 28's. 

1 weigh about 160 lbs or so with all of my bicycle clothing (guesstimate). My bike with everything loaded on is about 25 lbs, so 185 lbs. total.

I have been running my tires close to 90 psi, but I'm thinking this is definitely too high. 

What tire pressure calculator/chart do you recommend? Some recommend I run as low as 50 psi front.


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## JCavilia (Sep 12, 2005)

There are about a hundred threads on this in the Wheels and Tires section, if you want lots of input on the endlessly discussed topic.


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## cxwrench (Nov 9, 2004)

ex_machina said:


> I have a secteur elite, with michelin pro service course 4 installed. They are labeled as 25 mm, but measure closer to 28's.
> 
> 1 weigh about 160 lbs or so with all of my bicycle clothing (guesstimate). My bike with everything loaded on is about 25 lbs, so 185 lbs. total.
> 
> ...


How could you possibly ignore what's been one of the most beat down dead horses ever on this forum?


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## Fajita Dave (Dec 1, 2015)

JCavilia said:


> There are about a hundred threads on this in the Wheels and Tires section, if you want lots of input on the endlessly discussed topic.


If it weren't for repeat questions there wouldn't but much to discuss on any forum.

I use this chart that someone posted in the wheels and tires section of the forum. FLO Cycling - Tire Pressure It says rider weight but I went by rider weight + bike weight which ends up being 105psi on my 23c tires. I experimented with other pressures from 90 to 115psi but the chart was right on the money. So I ride with 105psi.

For your 25c measuring at 28c. I would try the recommended pressure for both 25c and 28c in similar conditions. Choose whichever one feels better.


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## ex_machina (Oct 20, 2015)

Fajita Dave said:


> If it weren't for repeat questions there wouldn't but much to discuss on any forum.
> 
> I use this chart that someone posted in the wheels and tires section of the forum. FLO Cycling - Tire Pressure It says rider weight but I went by rider weight + bike weight which ends up being 105psi on my 23c tires. I experimented with other pressures from 90 to 115psi but the chart was right on the money. So I ride with 105psi.
> 
> For your 25c measuring at 28c. I would try the recommended pressure for both 25c and 28c in similar conditions. Choose whichever one feels better.


Thanks--repped!

I'm going to experiment with lower pressure, say 75 front/85 rear. 

90 front seems to generate too harsh of a ride in my case.


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## hazilim (Jan 17, 2012)

Ex-machina:
Sure, plenty of threads, but it doesn't hurt to answer. Use this graph or one of many similar ones:
www.bikequarterly.com/images/TireDrop.pdf
You can do a search for tire pressure or tire drop as well.
Any of these will put you right into the ballpark.


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## T K (Feb 11, 2009)

I usually run psi. Bar is confusing to convert and don't even get me started on kilopascal kPa. Sheesh. 😳


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## ex_machina (Oct 20, 2015)

http://www.adventurecycling.org/default/assets/resources/200903_PSIRX_Heine.pdf

This seems like a pretty nice reference. It recommends approximately 60/85 based upon total weight. Quite a bit lower than the 85 or 90 psi I was running for the front!


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## looigi (Nov 24, 2010)

That reference gives front pressures that are too low IMO for pinch flat protection and good handling, particularity when the front wheel is weighted when standing. Tubeless will give you more leeway going low, but handling will still suffer, in my experience. Experiment and see what works for you.


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## velodog (Sep 26, 2007)

cxwrench said:


> How could you possibly ignore what's been one of the most beat down dead horses ever on this forum?


Oftentimes, it seems, the horse ain't beat dead enough.


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## tlg (May 11, 2011)

ex_machina said:


> http://www.adventurecycling.org/default/assets/resources/200903_PSIRX_Heine.pdf
> 
> This seems like a pretty nice reference. It recommends approximately 60/85 based upon total weight. Quite a bit lower than the 85 or 90 psi I was running for the front!


Use this calculator. It's based on the referenced 15% tire drop. It's never let me down. Can't remember the last time I pinch flatted.
First calculator is total PSI (both tires). 2nd calculator gives you each tire by weight distribution.
Bicycle tire pressure calculator


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## gearloose (Feb 25, 2007)

looigi said:


> That reference gives front pressures that are too low IMO for pinch flat protection and good handling, particularity when the front wheel is weighted when standing.


I'm 160 to 165 lbs and run 110 front and 115 rear for 700 x 23, sometimes as low as 105 and 110. If I get below 105/110, I start getting pinch flats.


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## Chain (Dec 28, 2006)

100 psi on the back. 98.6 on the front.


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## ex_machina (Oct 20, 2015)

tlg said:


> Use this calculator. It's based on the referenced 15% tire drop. It's never let me down. Can't remember the last time I pinch flatted.
> First calculator is total PSI (both tires). 2nd calculator gives you each tire by weight distribution.
> Bicycle tire pressure calculator


I'm getting 60/85 for each calculator which is consistent. I think my rear tire pressure is ok, but that the front pressure (85-90) is almost certainly too high.

I think I will try 70-75 front first, to see if I can get the comfort I want.


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## ex_machina (Oct 20, 2015)

gearloose said:


> I'm 160 to 165 lbs and run 110 front and 115 rear for 700 x 23, sometimes as low as 105 and 110. If I get below 105/110, I start getting pinch flats.


My tires measure at or close to 28 mm (listed at 25). 85-90 front is definitely too high. I probably weigh about 160+ full clothed/kitted up.


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## Jay Strongbow (May 8, 2010)

By the way, even though 160 isn't really heavy for a rider don't be afraid to get bigger tires if comfort is what you're striving for (and if your bike will take them). Assuming a good quality tire you might be shocked by how little, if any, they slow you down and the extra comfort speaks for itself. 
A lot depends on road conditions but comfort = speed so if you can be more comfortable with a bigger tires you just might be faster too especially for longer rides where the road vibration starts to add up.


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## Fajita Dave (Dec 1, 2015)

tlg said:


> Use this calculator. It's based on the referenced 15% tire drop. It's never let me down. Can't remember the last time I pinch flatted.
> First calculator is total PSI (both tires). 2nd calculator gives you each tire by weight distribution.
> Bicycle tire pressure calculator


I tried that one when you posted the link in another thread. For me the pressures were to low. At the 75psi front / 94 psi rear recommended settings it felt like there was more rolling resistance. I could drop my front pressure a little but 100 - 105 in the rear feels right for me. It might just be the cheap Vittora tires that came on my bike. I'll give it another try when I get the Conti 4000S tires. From the mtb world I know tire construction alone can cause drastic swings in choosing the right pressure.

Just remember these charts and other peoples recommendations are just good starting points. It takes a little bit of experimenting to find what works for your comfort on the road you ride with the tires that are mounted to the bike.


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## ASFOS (Dec 26, 2015)

I run on 200 PSI


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## ROAD&DIRT (Mar 27, 2009)

ASFOS said:


> I run on 200 PSI



:mad2::shocked::crazy::yikes:


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## wgscott (Jul 14, 2013)

He means 100 psi front and 100 psi back.


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## ex_machina (Oct 20, 2015)

Fajita Dave said:


> I tried that one when you posted the link in another thread. For me the pressures were to low. At the 75psi front / 94 psi rear recommended settings it felt like there was more rolling resistance. I could drop my front pressure a little but 100 - 105 in the rear feels right for me. It might just be the cheap Vittora tires that came on my bike. I'll give it another try when I get the Conti 4000S tires. From the mtb world I know tire construction alone can cause drastic swings in choosing the right pressure.
> 
> Just remember these charts and other peoples recommendations are just good starting points. It takes a little bit of experimenting to find what works for your comfort on the road you ride with the tires that are mounted to the bike.


Good post. The front psi rec seems too low to me also. 60 psi? I won't know until the weekend. 



Jay Strongbow said:


> By the way, even though 160 isn't really heavy for a rider don't be afraid to get bigger tires if comfort is what you're striving for (and if your bike will take them). Assuming a good quality tire you might be shocked by how little, if any, they slow you down and the extra comfort speaks for itself.
> A lot depends on road conditions but comfort = speed so if you can be more comfortable with a bigger tires you just might be faster too especially for longer rides where the road vibration starts to add up.


I'm closer to 150 but guessing around 160 or so fully kitted up. 

I'm already at 28 mm (actual, 25 listed), but I'm pretty sure I could get to 32. The problem then becomes having a "huge" tire on a 19 mm rim. That's not something I would look forward to.


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## cxwrench (Nov 9, 2004)

ex_machina said:


> Good post. The front psi rec seems too low to me also. 60 psi? I won't know until the weekend.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


If your tires are as big as you measured them to be 60 wouldn't be too bad. I'm over 170 and I run 60 front 70 rear on my 28mm Bontrager R3's w/ tubes. That's on 20mm internal rims. Mess around w/ pressure til it's too low, it's easy and free.


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## Roland44 (Mar 21, 2013)

cxwrench said:


> Mess around w/ pressure til it's too low, it's easy and free.


^
This. Just experiment with the pressure until you find the ideal one for you. It's not the same number for everyone.


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## pedalbiker (Nov 23, 2014)

I ride 95-100 on 23 mm rims and tires. 85-90 in the wet.


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## ericm979 (Jun 26, 2005)

tlg said:


> Use this calculator. It's based on the referenced 15% tire drop. It's never let me down. Can't remember the last time I pinch flatted.
> First calculator is total PSI (both tires). 2nd calculator gives you each tire by weight distribution.
> Bicycle tire pressure calculator


The top two give some low numbers, and there are some arguments (linked) about the usefulness of the 15% drop.

The bottom one uses the Michelin data, which is what the FLO chart is also using.

I follow that for the rear, but run 5psi lower for the front as there is less weight on the front. I've run 10psi lower in both for rough races (Copperopolis for you NorCal people) which is 85/90, without a pinch flat. 23mm tires, 145 lbs.


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## Lombard (May 8, 2014)

ASFOS said:


> I mean 200 psi on the rear and 200 psi on the front. are you jealous



Why?? Do you like bouncing around like a bucking bronco?

Seriously, I was giving you the benefit of the doubt for awhile, but the handwriting is on the wall now. You really are a troll. No problem though. I really find this entertaining and amusing. Keep on trolling!


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## ziscwg (Apr 19, 2010)

cxwrench said:


> How could you possibly ignore what's been one of the most beat down dead horses ever on this forum?


YES

Give it to that 43 post n00b!!!

(PS, I _run _zero pressure in my running shoes. Wait, I don't run with tires on my shoes either?????????????? Oh fudge nuts, that's why I can barely make a 9 minute mile)

Hey, Where's ASFOS. He needs to weigh in on this.....................

Although, the OPs handle and its corresponding movie certainly left me scratching my head. But, that belongs in The Lounge.....................


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## ziscwg (Apr 19, 2010)

ASFOS said:


> I will when you stop bullying me


Stay!!!!!!! we love you........................

Have you increased your avg speed to 3.141752431 mph yet?


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## Peter P. (Dec 30, 2006)

ex_machina said:


> I have been running my tires close to 90 psi, but I'm thinking this is definitely too high.


Stop guessing and EXPERIMENT! Here's what I did: I started at X psi. and went for a ride. The next ride I dropped 5 psi. and when for a ride.

I continued to do this until one ride I could feel the tires were soft or I pinch flatted; I forget which. The amazing thing is, during the process of repeatedly lowering the psi. and going for a ride, I could begin to perceive the changes day to day.

For my 130lbs. and my riding style, 100 or even 90 psi. is too much. 80-85 psi. gives me a measure of cushion and low rolling resistance. After settling at the low end or maybe lower, I began to experience pinch flats all too frequently. I bumped the pressure back up 5-10 psi. and I've been there ever since.

So go through the process and you'll find your best pressure.


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## laurido92 (Apr 7, 2015)

I'm 5'9"/195 lbs and run 110 psi front and rear on 700x25 Continental Ultra Sport and never had a pinch flat.

Ran the same psi on 700x23 on Vittoria Zafiro Pro Slick and never had a flat either.


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## velodog (Sep 26, 2007)

laurido92 said:


> I'm 5'9"/195 lbs and run 110 psi front and rear on 700x25 Continental Ultra Sport and never had a pinch flat.
> 
> Ran the same psi on 700x23 on Vittoria Zafiro Pro Slick and never had a flat either.


That's not surprising. You'd have to hit a pothole big enough to knock the hubcaps off of a car with that high a pressure to get a pinch flat. I'm 185lbs and run maybe 90psi rear and 5\10 less front, 23 or 25mm, and I know that that's higher than I need. But, once they're pumped up to those pressures I don't have to check again for a week or better.

Shux, I've got a bike with 650b x 42 that I pump to 45psi on the high side, and they're good for better than a month. To tell the truth, I don't think that there's enough pressure in those tires to migrate through the tube and get out.


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## crit_boy (Aug 6, 2013)

I run 100 psi front and rear on both 23 and 25 mm tires. Instead of the 15% drop pressure or the 3.14 x ftp during the full moon calculations, I ascribe to the KISS concept. I don't get pinch flats all that often at 100 psi. So, I pump them to 100. 

I ride with a guy who pumps his tires to 180 psi and others that ride below 90 psi. I have a bontrager stem on a specialized and a riding buddy with shimano on a colnago. Our group rides often end up dodging lightning strikes from the Internet cycling gods.


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## 3DKiwi (Dec 1, 2012)

90 PSI rear
80 PSI front
I weigh 77 - 78 kg
25mm width tyres

I'll drop the pressure by 10 PSI if I'm riding on hot afternoon and the temperature is 28 C or higher. The road temperature on really hot days can be 40 - 50 deg C and if you're tyres are inflated too much they can blowout as the PSI increases with the heat.

120PSI BTW when I use my indoor trainer.

Unless you're running say 50 PSI I can't see how you could get pinch flats on a road bike with normal riding.


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## Srode (Aug 19, 2012)

85F/95R 190lbs 25mm tires on the road bike


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## ROAD&DIRT (Mar 27, 2009)

Front & Rear are both 100psi
Weigh 130lbs 
700x23mm / MichPro3's


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## cxwrench (Nov 9, 2004)

ROAD&DIRT said:


> Front & Rear are both 100psi
> Weigh 130lbs
> 700x23mm / MichPro3's


Why?:skep:


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## pedalbiker (Nov 23, 2014)

3DKiwi said:


> Unless you're running say 50 PSI I can't see how you could get pinch flats on a road bike with normal riding.


Shite roads for one. That's why I typically run 100. Below 90 and if I nail something that some dimwit fails to point out I'll pinch flat. I'm only about 160, too.


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## velodog (Sep 26, 2007)

cxwrench said:


> Why?:skep:


Probably thinks it's faster. Or maybe it just feels faster.

But I'm just supposin'.


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## velodog (Sep 26, 2007)

pedalbiker said:


> Shite roads for one. That's why I typically run 100. Below 90 and if I nail something that some dimwit fails to point out I'll pinch flat. I'm only about 160, too.


If the roads are that bad and the guys that you ride with are dimwits that you don't trust, maybe you should find others to ride with.

Or just ride lone wolf.


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## arai_speed (Aug 19, 2003)

tlg said:


> Use this calculator. It's based on the referenced 15% tire drop. It's never let me down. Can't remember the last time I pinch flatted.
> First calculator is total PSI (both tires). 2nd calculator gives you each tire by weight distribution.
> Bicycle tire pressure calculator




I used the above calculator.

For my weight (185lbs) and my bike (18lbs) the first method tells me to inflate my 23mm to *219 psi* or *189 psi* for my 25mm tires.

Needless to say I won't be doing that.

The 2nd method (choosing 45/55%) gives me 94/117 using 23mm tires and 79/99 using 25mm tires.

A more reasonable number which I will explore. 

Third method: 116psi using 23mm and 102 using 25mm.

Another reasonable number.

Thanks for sharing the calculator.


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## ROAD&DIRT (Mar 27, 2009)

cxwrench said:


> Why?:skep:


Because I can... never tried anything less than that. Usually go with a couple of pounds less than what recommended on the tire.


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## cxwrench (Nov 9, 2004)

ROAD&DIRT said:


> Because I can... never tried anything less than that. Usually go with a couple of pounds less than what recommended on the tire.


In other words you informing us of the pressure you use is of no use to anyone because you don't have any comparative experience. You should try lower sometime, then you'll know.


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## Fajita Dave (Dec 1, 2015)

arai_speed said:


> I used the above calculator.
> 
> For my weight (185lbs) and my bike (18lbs) the first method tells me to inflate my 23mm to *219 psi* or *189 psi* for my 25mm tires.


The first calculator is combined psi between front and rear tires. So if you split it 50/50 with 23mm tires you would have 109.5psi in each tire.


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## PBL450 (Apr 12, 2014)

velodog said:


> That's not surprising. You'd have to hit a pothole big enough to knock the hubcaps off of a car with that high a pressure to get a pinch flat. I'm 185lbs and run maybe 90psi rear and 5\10 less front, 23 or 25mm, and I know that that's higher than I need. But, once they're pumped up to those pressures I don't have to check again for a week or better.
> 
> Shux, I've got a bike with 650b x 42 that I pump to 45psi on the high side, and they're good for better than a month. To tell the truth, I don't think that there's enough pressure in those tires to migrate through the tube and get out.


Big duh on my part... I was wondering why my fat bike tires don't seem to lose air... I guess 3-5 psi in tubeless 4.7s doesn't have enough pressure to push out... I run 105 on my 23s. If I get sub 90 I start pinch flatting. I'm 165. It also just feels funny, it feels like I'm going flat. I like that 105-110 feel. I like the feel of my Conti 4000s diving into turns at that psi, lower makes me worry, it just feels sloppy. Preference is really huge here! On the fatty conditions are god. In snow of any depth I'm as low as 1 psi and the bike takes off where you could barely go anywhere at 6/8 psi. The side wall actually gets a ripple.


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## Fredrico (Jun 15, 2002)

PBL450 said:


> Big duh on my part... I was wondering why my fat bike tires don't seem to lose air... I guess 3-5 psi in tubeless 4.7s doesn't have enough pressure to push out... I run 105 on my 23s. If I get sub 90 I start pinch flatting. I'm 165. It also just feels funny, it feels like I'm going flat. I like that 105-110 feel. I like the feel of my Conti 4000s diving into turns at that psi, lower makes me worry, it just feels sloppy. Preference is really huge here! On the fatty conditions are god. In snow of any depth I'm as low as 1 psi and the bike takes off where you could barely go anywhere at 6/8 psi. The side wall actually gets a ripple.


Exactly. I'm 155-165, and have had the same experiences. 23s at least 105 to avoid pinch flats, 25s = 100, 28s = 90. Nothing less! I want a firm ride. Have also experienced the "ripple" effect cornering on soft tires. Bummer.


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## cxwrench (Nov 9, 2004)

PBL450 said:


> Big duh on my part... I was wondering why my fat bike tires don't seem to lose air... I guess 3-5 psi in tubeless 4.7s doesn't have enough pressure to push out... I run 105 on my 23s.* If I get sub 90 I start pinch flatting.* I'm 165. It also just feels funny, it feels like I'm going flat. I like that 105-110 feel. I like the feel of my Conti 4000s diving into turns at that psi, lower makes me worry, it just feels sloppy. Preference is really huge here! On the fatty conditions are god. In snow of any depth I'm as low as 1 psi and the bike takes off where you could barely go anywhere at 6/8 psi. The side wall actually gets a ripple.


So you do group rides w/ people that never point out potholes?


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## cxwrench (Nov 9, 2004)

Fredrico said:


> Exactly. I'm 155-165, and have had the same experiences. 23s at least 105 to avoid pinch flats, 25s = 100, 28s = 90. Nothing less! I want a firm ride. Have also experienced the "ripple" effect cornering on soft tires. Bummer.


Makes sense to me to over-inflate your tires 100% of the time to avoid a pinch flat that might happen every .00001% of the time you're riding. Makes sense to sacrifice ride quality and cornering traction to avoid something you should be avoiding by keeping your eyes open.


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## Fredrico (Jun 15, 2002)

cxwrench said:


> In other words you informing us of the pressure you use is of no use to anyone because you don't have any comparative experience. You should try lower sometime, then you'll know.


100 psi is in the ballpark for 23C, ain't it? At my weight, 155 pounds, 100 psi gives firm handling and a reasonably good grip. Less, like 90 psi, tire squishes in a hard turn and is prone to pinch flats.


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## cxwrench (Nov 9, 2004)

Fredrico said:


> 100 psi is in the ballpark for 23C, ain't it? At my weight, 155 pounds, 100 psi gives firm handling and a reasonably good grip. Less, like 90 psi, tire squishes in a hard turn and is prone to pinch flats.


See my other post. The tire isn't actually squishing in corners, you just think it is. I weigh a bunch more than you and run a LOT less pressure. I kinda doubt you'd be cornering fast than me.


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## Local Hero (Jul 8, 2010)

cxwrench said:


> So you do group rides w/ people that never point out potholes?


Yes. But any hairline crack in the road or pine needle will be pointed out. 



I need new friends.


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## cxwrench (Nov 9, 2004)

Local Hero said:


> Yes. But any hairline crack in the road or pine needle will be pointed out.
> 
> 
> 
> I need new friends.


Definitely!


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## Fredrico (Jun 15, 2002)

cxwrench said:


> See my other post. The tire isn't actually squishing in corners, you just think it is. I weigh a bunch more than you and run a LOT less pressure. I kinda doubt you'd be cornering fast than me.


Well dunno. I switched from 23s to 25s 30 years ago because aired up to even 95 psi, those damn 23s sooner or later would hit something on the urban road environment, like a steel plate or manhole cover, and "Bam," a flat. Anyone can tell the difference in ride quality of a soft tire and hard tire. I prefer hard tires. The frame soaks up vibrations. I want the tire for grip, fine on macadam which under my weight, 155-160#, which is fine up to about 115 psi. That's when bumps seem to be amplified and the ride gets harsh. 100 psi is fine, if rider wants a firm ride but doesn't want to go bouncing all over the road.

Last month, upon the advice in these threads, I lowered two 28C tires down to 85 psi. I could feel the added rolling resistance, I hate to say. 90 psi gives the quality of ride I go after: the bike goes with minimal rolling resistance, but not at the expense of grip or road feel. Lower than 90 psi with 25 or 28Cs, just feels sloppy to me. But we're splitting hairs.  These differences are very subtle.


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## cxwrench (Nov 9, 2004)

Fredrico said:


> Well dunno. I switched from 23s to 25s 30 years ago because aired up to even 95 psi, those damn 23s sooner or later would hit something on the urban road environment, like a steel plate or manhole cover, and "Bam," a flat. Anyone can tell the difference in ride quality of a soft tire and hard tire. I prefer hard tires. The frame soaks up vibrations. I want the tire for grip, fine on macadam which under my weight, 155-160#, which is fine up to about 115 psi. That's when bumps seem to be amplified and the ride gets harsh. 100 psi is fine, if rider wants a firm ride but doesn't want to go bouncing all over the road.
> 
> Last month, upon the advice in these threads, I lowered two 28C tires down to 85 psi. I could feel the added rolling resistance, I hate to say. 90 psi gives the quality of ride I go after: the bike goes with minimal rolling resistance, but not at the expense of grip or road feel. Lower than 90 psi with 25 or 28Cs, just feels sloppy to me. But we're splitting hairs.  These differences are very subtle.


Your feels are definitely confused. Frame soaks up vibrations? Ok, sure.


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## ex_machina (Oct 20, 2015)

Fredrico said:


> Exactly. I'm 155-165, and have had the same experiences. 23s at least 105 to avoid pinch flats, 25s = 100, 28s = 90. Nothing less! I want a firm ride. Have also experienced the "ripple" effect cornering on soft tires. Bummer.


It's good to get a reference point from someone close to me in weight. 

Having said that, I find even 85 psi front to be a bit too high. Even small bumps buck the wheel straight up. 

I'm going with 75 front.

What frame material do you ride? Perhaps you can get away with higher psi on more compliant steel or ti.


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## Fredrico (Jun 15, 2002)

ex_machina said:


> It's good to get a reference point from someone close to me in weight.
> 
> Having said that, I find even 85 psi front to be a bit too high. Even small bumps buck the wheel straight up.
> 
> ...


My whole experience with tire pressures has always been on steel bikes. 

Sure, I'll admit that to many, I'm running a bit harsh. But I must stress that as high as 105 psi front and back, I've never felt slipping in corners and the slightly rockier bounces hitting seams in pavement, etc, are tolerable. I never have the sensation of losing control. Jam the outside foot down on that pedal and that tire is pressed firmly on the tarmac, even at 105 psi, if you do it right.


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## Fredrico (Jun 15, 2002)

cxwrench said:


> Your feels are definitely confused. Frame soaks up vibrations? Ok, sure.


You question the main property of steel that makes it perfect for bike frames? :nono:

My arms bent at the elbows also absorb shocks, not to mention 155# girth sitting on the bike. :yesnod: At 100 psi the tires do their job: stay on the road. I hate putzing along on soft tires. I start to lose the feeling of the road under 90 psi.


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## velodog (Sep 26, 2007)

Fredrico said:


> Well dunno. I switched from 23s to 25s 30 years ago because aired up to even 95 psi, those damn 23s sooner or later would hit something on the urban road environment, like a steel plate or manhole cover, and "Bam," a flat. Anyone can tell the difference in ride quality of a soft tire and hard tire. I prefer hard tires. The frame soaks up vibrations. I want the tire for grip, fine on macadam which under my weight, 155-160#, which is fine up to about 115 psi. That's when bumps seem to be amplified and the ride gets harsh. 100 psi is fine, if rider wants a firm ride but doesn't want to go bouncing all over the road.
> 
> Last month, upon the advice in these threads, I lowered two 28C tires down to 85 psi. I could feel the added rolling resistance, I hate to say. 90 psi gives the quality of ride I go after: the bike goes with minimal rolling resistance, but not at the expense of grip or road feel. Lower than 90 psi with 25 or 28Cs, just feels sloppy to me. But we're splitting hairs.  These differences are very subtle.


That's the long way around sayin' you don't understand what it is you're sayin'.


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## velodog (Sep 26, 2007)

ex_machina said:


> It's good to get a reference point from someone close to me in weight.
> 
> Having said that, I find even 85 psi front to be a bit too high. Even small bumps buck the wheel straight up.
> 
> ...


Find someone else for your reference.


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## ziscwg (Apr 19, 2010)

ROAD&DIRT said:


> Front & Rear are both 100psi
> Weigh 130lbs
> 700x23mm / MichPro3's


Ouch.......that hurts my deltoids and I'm not even riding that.

At your weight you have great flexibility in tire pressure and size. 

You also must have the greatest roads around because the Mich 3 are not exactly "robust"


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## ziscwg (Apr 19, 2010)

cxwrench said:


> So you do group rides w/ people that never point out potholes?


I don't so I can weed out the n00bs who can't bunny hop


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## ziscwg (Apr 19, 2010)

ASFOS said:


> I run on 200 PSI



Yahhhh baby.

Someone who can hold his pressure.

You go girl!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


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## ziscwg (Apr 19, 2010)

velodog said:


> Find someone else for your reference.


Did you just call Ex Machina fat????

Look at her............no fat anywhere.................


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## Local Hero (Jul 8, 2010)

I weigh the same as you and run 95psi, sometimes a little less.


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## ex_machina (Oct 20, 2015)

Local Hero said:


> I weigh the same as you and run 95psi


What tire width?


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## Local Hero (Jul 8, 2010)

ex_machina said:


> What tire width?


Right now I am running everything from 23 to 26mm

I just threw a new 23mm front on my aluminum clinchers. The front is a vittoria corsa 320 tpi. It's replacing a 24mm s works turbo. The rear is a specialized all season something or other. I raced on this wheelset on Saturday and Sunday. 

The weekend before I raced on my carbon clinchers with 26mm specialized s works turbos, front and rear. Great tires. My tubular wheels will have 25mm vittoria corsa graphene tires, front and rear. I am going to glue these up tomorrow.

For TTs, I have specialized s-works turbo 26mms with latex tubes on my tri spoke and disc.

I ride every day and race every weekend. I did some research earlier in the season when I was buying my gear for the year and no longer geek out over this stuff. Ultimately, I still have to push the pedals. So that's where I spend the most energy - training and racing. 

PSI doesn't have to be perfect for me. So ~95 PSI. Maybe a little more, maybe a little less. I think that with softer, more supple tires that have a really high TPI you can get away with higher PSI. But with a hard, nasty tire you want to run it a little lower. Either way, get out and ride.


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## Fredrico (Jun 15, 2002)

velodog said:


> That's the long way around sayin' you don't understand what it is you're sayin'.


Ok, how about this: A tire has a certain pressure range, that will provide adequate support of the load, absorb shocks, while providing as little rolling resistance as possible. For example, 25Cs ride good between, IMO, 90 and 110 psi. for riders weighing 125-170. Heavier than that, add air pressure or suffer increased rolling resistance. Very simple my dear Watson.  

Below 90 psi, under my medium weight, these tires get pinch flats. Above 110 psi, they start bouncing too much, which has been found to increase rolling resistance, especially on rough roads. 

So correct pressure on a given tire is a range, not an absolute setting. Some riders go low for comfort, others go high for performance.


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## aclinjury (Sep 12, 2011)

120-122lbs
running25mm wide rim and tire
70 psi front, 80 rear

But recently in the Tour of Palmsprings, I got 2 pinch flats, one up front, one in the back! Both times it was hitting a pothole hard at ~22-23 mph. Up until then, I've never had pinch flats on this rim, tire, and psi combo. Going forward, I will definitely consider running 80/90 on bad road or unknown road.


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## Fredrico (Jun 15, 2002)

ziscwg said:


> I don't so I can weed out the n00bs who can't bunny hop


Thanks a lot.  I hope I never ride behind you in a group! You would be blocking my view of the road until it appears a foot in front of my wheel! 

How the hell am I going to bunny hop over what appears instantaneously in front of my wheel? I'm watching the riders, anyway, not looking down at the tarmac. ut: I'm totally dependent on warnings from riders in front.


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## velodog (Sep 26, 2007)

Fredrico said:


> Ok, how about this: A tire has a certain pressure range, that will provide adequate support of the load, absorb shocks, while providing as little rolling resistance as possible. For example, 25Cs ride good between, IMO, 90 and 110 psi. for riders weighing 125-170. Heavier than that, add air pressure or suffer increased rolling resistance. Very simple my dear Watson.
> 
> Below 90 psi, under my medium weight, these tires get pinch flats. Above 110 psi, they start bouncing too much, which has been found to increase rolling resistance, especially on rough roads.
> 
> So correct pressure on a given tire is a range, not an absolute setting. Some riders go low for comfort, others go high for performance.


I agree that correct pressure is within a given range, but 90psi on your 25mm tire is definitely on the high side of low in that range and 110 is probably to high for the high end.
I'm 185lbs these days and the highest pressure that I run my 23's or 25's is 95 psi. That would be on the rear, and as of late I've lowered that to 90 psi rear and less up front. The front is always 5\10 psi less.
No pinch flats as try I and ride smart by watching road surface and avoiding debris fields.


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## Lombard (May 8, 2014)

PBL450 said:


> Big duh on my part... I was wondering why my fat bike tires don't seem to lose air... I guess 3-5 psi in tubeless 4.7s doesn't have enough pressure to push out...



I'm guessing the reason is more because of the volume of the tire. Just as a car tire doesn't usually lose more than 1 PSI per month. Even my mountain bike with 26 x 2.1 tires hold most of their air for a few months at a time, though it probably helps that I use thorn proof tubes on it.


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## ROAD&DIRT (Mar 27, 2009)

ziscwg said:


> Ouch.......that hurts my deltoids and I'm not even riding that.
> 
> At your weight you have great flexibility in tire pressure and size.
> 
> You also must have the greatest roads around because the Mich 3 are not exactly "robust"


Roads aren't too bad, I guess I like the abuse and I just like the feel riding with a firm/harder tire. I have on occasion run lower PSI but is feels like the tire is dragging a bit.


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## cxwrench (Nov 9, 2004)

Fredrico said:


> Ok, how about this: A tire has a certain pressure range, that will provide adequate support of the load, absorb shocks, while providing as little rolling resistance as possible. For example, 25Cs ride good between, IMO, 90 and 110 psi. for riders weighing 125-170. Heavier than that, add air pressure or suffer increased rolling resistance. Very simple my dear Watson.
> 
> Below 90 psi, under my medium weight, these tires get pinch flats. Above 110 psi, they start bouncing too much, which has been found to increase rolling resistance, especially on rough roads.
> 
> So correct pressure on a given tire is a range, not an absolute setting. Some riders go low for comfort, others go high for performance.


This is really getting old. It's been discussed wayyyyy too many times. It's like suspension, you get a really good idea of your ideal pressure by measuring tire 'sag' but it's a pain. People that over-inflate to avoid pinch flats baffle me. Open your damn eyes. In over 30 years of road riding I've had exactly one pinch flat and it destroyed a tubeless tire. Partially my fault, partially the guys ahead for riding over the damn crater in the first place. I've never actually pinch flatted a tubed tire on the road. Riding exclusively tubulars for years and years probably helped, but you can pinch flat one of those if you try hard enough. 
A 125lb rider on 25mm tires? I'd start them off at 60ish front 70ish rear and adjust as needed. 90? Wayyyyy to high. I don't ride 90 in my 25mm rear tire at over 170lbs.


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## Lombard (May 8, 2014)

cxwrench said:


> This is really getting old. It's been discussed wayyyyy too many times. It's like suspension, you get a really good idea of your ideal pressure by measuring tire 'sag' but it's a pain. People that over-inflate to avoid pinch flats baffle me. Open your damn eyes. In over 30 years of road riding I've had exactly one pinch flat and it destroyed a tubeless tire. Partially my fault, partially the guys ahead for riding over the damn crater in the first place. I've never actually pinch flatted a tubed tire on the road. Riding exclusively tubulars for years and years probably helped, but you can pinch flat one of those if you try hard enough.
> A 125lb rider on 25mm tires? I'd start them off at 60ish front 70ish rear and adjust as needed. 90? Wayyyyy to high. I don't ride 90 in my 25mm rear tire at over 170lbs.



What you are saying is true. However, it is very hard to break the "harder is faster" and "more is better" train of thought many have, regardless of how wrong it is.


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## velodog (Sep 26, 2007)

Lombard said:


> What you are saying is true. However, it is very hard to break the "harder is faster" and "more is better" train of thought many have, regardless of how wrong it is.


I also think, that for many cyclists, it's easier to overinflate their tires than it is to ride smart.


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## den bakker (Nov 13, 2004)

mine go to 11.


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## Fredrico (Jun 15, 2002)

cxwrench said:


> This is really getting old. It's been discussed wayyyyy too many times. It's like suspension, you get a really good idea of your ideal pressure by measuring tire 'sag' but it's a pain. People that over-inflate to avoid pinch flats baffle me. Open your damn eyes. In over 30 years of road riding I've had exactly one pinch flat and it destroyed a tubeless tire. Partially my fault, partially the guys ahead for riding over the damn crater in the first place. I've never actually pinch flatted a tubed tire on the road. Riding exclusively tubulars for years and years probably helped, but you can pinch flat one of those if you try hard enough.
> A 125lb rider on 25mm tires? I'd start them off at 60ish front 70ish rear and adjust as needed. 90? Wayyyyy to high. I don't ride 90 in my 25mm rear tire at over 170lbs.


I rode tubulars for a couple of years. They don't pinch flat due to their round shape. When they hit a big bump, they bounce quite nicely; the rim doesn't pinch the tire sidewall. 

Have to admit I haven't gotten any pinch flats, either, after I went from 23s to 25s and aired them up to at least 90 psi. Then through experimentation, I settled on 95-105 because they gave me the right combination of shock absorptions, grip, and rolling resistance {feel for the road] for my riding style. I like my tires "firm." I think they handle better with 95 psi than they do with 85 psi. I just tried 85 psi. Too soft, for me. Y'all can ride lower pressure if you want. Just don't criticize me for running a little harder. I like the way they handle!


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## Fredrico (Jun 15, 2002)

velodog said:


> I agree that correct pressure is within a given range, but 90psi on your 25mm tire is definitely on the high side of low in that range and 110 is probably to high for the high end.
> I'm 185lbs these days and the highest pressure that I run my 23's or 25's is 95 psi. That would be on the rear, and as of late I've lowered that to 90 psi rear and less up front. The front is always 5\10 psi less.
> No pinch flats as try I and ride smart by watching road surface and avoiding debris fields.


So you run 90-95 psi in the rear? Aha! Just what I said works best for me! :thumbsup:

Yes, 110 is a little harsh. Not as bad as 120 psi, though! Some riders think they have to go to the max. printed on the sidewalls! I always assumed 120 psi is the max. pressure the tire is more or less guaranteed to handle without blowing off the rim.


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## velodog (Sep 26, 2007)

Fredrico said:


> So you run 90-95 psi in the rear? Aha! Just what I said works best for me! :thumbsup:
> 
> Yes, 110 is a little harsh. Not as bad as 120 psi, though! Some riders think they have to go to the max. printed on the sidewalls! I always assumed 120 psi is the max. pressure the tire is more or less guaranteed to handle without blowing off the rim.


The thing is, I've been working my way down. Like I said I have been at 90 and will be dropping that to 80\85 when I resume riding that bike. The only benefit that I can see, as of late, to riding too high a pressure is not needing to check the tires more than once every 7\10 days.

As I've dropped the pressure the bike has ridden more comfortably and it's cornering and handling has improved.

As far as what it says on the side of the tire, how much of that can be attributed to the manufacturer and how much to the lawyers.


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## cxwrench (Nov 9, 2004)

Fredrico said:


> I rode tubulars for a couple of years. *They don't pinch flat due to their round shape*. When they hit a big bump, they bounce quite nicely; the rim doesn't pinch the tire sidewall.


They most definitely can pinch flat, they're just a lot less likely to compared to clinchers.


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## Oxtox (Aug 16, 2006)

100, 101...whatever it takes.


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## Fredrico (Jun 15, 2002)

cxwrench said:


> They most definitely can pinch flat, they're just a lot less likely to compared to clinchers.


Air up a tub to 90 psi, and you'll never get a pinch flat, at least in DC Metro. And the roads aren't all that great. 

I guess if rider rolls over a manhole, he'd get a pinch flat with a tubular. Just don't draft any cars! I learned the hard way. Two flats and two bent rims hitting a badly installed manhole cover while drafting a taxi. :nono: That was on 28C clinchers.

I've gotten pinch flats from side swiping a rock. The rim flange that holds the tire bead in place pinches the sidewall. 

No tire bead, no rim flange, no pinch flat. :yesnod: One of the nice things about tubulars.


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## cxwrench (Nov 9, 2004)

Fredrico said:


> Air up a tub to 90 psi, and you'll never get a pinch flat, at least in DC Metro. And the roads aren't all that great.
> 
> I guess if rider rolls over a manhole, he'd get a pinch flat with a tubular. Just don't draft any cars! I learned the hard way. Two flats and two bent rims hitting a badly installed manhole cover while drafting a taxi. :nono: That was on 28C clinchers.
> 
> ...


Tubulars not pinch flatting is quite the myth. Remember what I do for a living. They are a LOT less likely to pinch but definitely not immune.


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## Fredrico (Jun 15, 2002)

cxwrench said:


> They most definitely can pinch flat, they're just a lot less likely to compared to clinchers.


I'll take your word on it.  

Just remembering the good old days when I could run tubs with aplomb. I did get two flats in two years, about a quarter of the flats I'd get with clinchers, and remember fondly how they bounced so well on the steel plates without the hint of a pinch. They rolled up onto the steel plates like a 35C, er.. 35 mm tire. I gave 'em up, having never mastered the art of sewing up the tire tight enough so it wouldn't bulge when aired up.


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## PBL450 (Apr 12, 2014)

cxwrench said:


> So you do group rides w/ people that never point out potholes?


No, but I am forced at times to ride over some rough stuff by traffic. I see it, I'll stand and try to hop some of the worst spots, but sometimes there is just no avoiding a series of pot holes.


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## crit_boy (Aug 6, 2013)

Deleted. 

Forgot, i already posted. Got lost in the repetitve winter threads.


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## velodog (Sep 26, 2007)

crit_boy said:


> Deleted.
> 
> Forgot, i already posted. Got lost in the repetitve winter threads.


I thought that I heard somebody say Mt. Wilson.

I guess not.


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## Fredrico (Jun 15, 2002)

velodog said:


> I thought that I heard somebody say Mt. Wilson.
> 
> I guess not.


Great mountain! LA riders are a lucky bunch: perfect wx year round, beach flats, Hollywood hills, and Mt. Wilson, all within reach for an afternoon ride! :thumbsup:


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## Local Hero (Jul 8, 2010)

The pros *think* they are running higher pressure on the smooth roads of Dubai. But they are not sure.


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## Chain (Dec 28, 2006)

I don't run, I ride.... next question


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## velodog (Sep 26, 2007)

Local Hero said:


> The pros *think* they are running higher pressure on the smooth roads of Dubai. But they are not sure.


Luckily they're not paid to think.


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## cxwrench (Nov 9, 2004)

velodog said:


> Luckily they're not paid to think.


Nor are they paid to actually pump up their own tires.


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## tlg (May 11, 2011)

Local Hero said:


> The pros *think* they are running higher pressure on the smooth roads of Dubai. But they are not sure.


It would've been interesting if afterwards they went to the mechanics and asked what pressure they were really running.


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## Fredrico (Jun 15, 2002)

Local Hero said:


> The pros *think* they are running higher pressure on the smooth roads of Dubai. But they are not sure.


The testimonials are all rather consistently above 110! They're to 130! That says lots about getting the least rolling resistance. The only caveat for lower pressure was reported to be on very rough courses, like the cobbles in Paris-Roubaix. I read they like 28 mm tubulars for the cobbles. They'll bounce better than clinchers at slightly softer pressures.

So seems high pressure gets the nod from these racers. 100-110 psi doesn't look all that overinflated, does it? As one rider said, he prefers the road feel of hard tires. How about that?


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## velodog (Sep 26, 2007)

Fredrico said:


> The testimonials are all rather consistently above 110! They're to 130! That says lots about getting the least rolling resistance. The only caveat for lower pressure was reported to be on very rough courses, like the cobbles in Paris-Roubaix. I read they like 28 mm tubulars for the cobbles. They'll bounce better than clinchers at slightly softer pressures.
> 
> So seems high pressure gets the nod from these racers. 100-110 psi doesn't look all that overinflated, does it? As one rider said, he prefers the road feel of hard tires. How about that?


Except, they're all guessing at their tire pressure and don't really know what the pressure is.

P.S. Things work better when the tires roll rather than bounce.


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## arai_speed (Aug 19, 2003)

I'll admit I don't often get involved in these types of discussions but a few things seem clear to me.

1) The lower pressure camp thinks their preferred PSI is better an everyone else not in their camp is an idiot.
2) The higher pressure camp thinks their pressure works for them but does not seem to think members of the lower pressure camp are idiots.
3) The middle pressure camp is out riding their bikes and not worried about this crap.


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## cxwrench (Nov 9, 2004)

Fredrico said:


> The testimonials are all rather consistently above 110! They're to 130! *That says lots about getting the least rolling resistance*. The only caveat for lower pressure was reported to be on very rough courses, like the cobbles in Paris-Roubaix. I read they like 28 mm tubulars for the cobbles. They'll bounce better than clinchers at slightly softer pressures.
> 
> So seems high pressure gets the nod from these racers. 100-110 psi doesn't look all that overinflated, does it? As one rider said, he prefers the road feel of hard tires. How about that?


No, it doesn't. All it says is that certain guys _think _that high pressure rolls better, but they really don't even know what pressure their tires are inflated to. If you know anything of physics you'd know that less than 100psi will roll better than over 100psi for nearly everyone ALL of the time regardless of how smooth the pavement is. 

But, in the end it's a personal preference. About the only place really high pressure is faster is on a wood track or in the lab.


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## Local Hero (Jul 8, 2010)

Well, it's interesting nonetheless. And I like that GCN posted that video in the middle of this thread. But that's not the greatest synchronicity, as this thread comes up every week or two 

EDIT TO ADD: I will be racing a stage race in a week or so. That first stage is on a smooth race track. Stage 2 includes some gravel sections. So that'll be ~100 PSI on the first day and ~90PSI on the second. 

Vittoria Graphene Corsas tubulars in 25mm on both stages.


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## ex_machina (Oct 20, 2015)

arai_speed said:


> I'll admit I don't often get involved in these types of discussions but a few things seem clear to me.
> 
> 1) The lower pressure camp thinks their preferred PSI is better an everyone else not in their camp is an idiot.
> 2) The higher pressure camp thinks their pressure works for them but does not seem to think members of the lower pressure camp are idiots.
> 3) The middle pressure camp is out riding their bikes and not worried about this crap.


I've also noticed that the posters who have complained that they don't want to participate in a thread like this since it is redundant are posting in this thread most frequently. Go figure.


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## SwiftSolo (Jun 7, 2008)

cxwrench said:


> So you do group rides w/ people that never point out potholes?


Curious, what is your groups protocol on steep crooked fast descents?


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## Fredrico (Jun 15, 2002)

cxwrench said:


> No, it doesn't. All it says is that certain guys _think _that high pressure rolls better, but they really don't even know what pressure their tires are inflated to. If you know anything of physics you'd know that less than 100psi will roll better than over 100psi for nearly everyone ALL of the time regardless of how smooth the pavement is.
> 
> But, in the end it's a personal preference. About the only place really high pressure is faster is on a wood track or in the lab.


Stepped right into it, figures. 

But the riders all gave estimates in the high numbers, 110-120 psi. They race on those pressures. If the psi of a given tire is way less than 110 psi, like down to 80 psi, it's probably below optimum lack of rolling resistance. That's why so many riders go with 90-110. Its right in the range of optimum speed, while not being bouncy enough to increase rolling resistance. Although the riders are lighter weight, they are still working their a$$es off and don't want to be slowed down because of under-inflation.


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## ziscwg (Apr 19, 2010)

Local Hero said:


> Well, it's interesting nonetheless. And I like that GCN posted that video in the middle of this thread. But that's not the greatest synchronicity, as this thread comes up every week or two
> 
> EDIT TO ADD: I will be racing a stage race in a week or so. That first stage is on a smooth race track. Stage 2 includes some gravel sections. So that'll be ~100 PSI on the first day and ~90PSI on the second.
> 
> *Vittoria Graphene Corsas tubulars in 25mm on both stages.*


I heard good things about those Graphene tires, but I have not tried one. The Vittoria Pave and Corsa went on sale when the Graphenes came out. So, I bought a bunch of those "last years tech" tires. 

Paves in the winter and Corsas in the summer.


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## Fredrico (Jun 15, 2002)

SwiftSolo said:


> Curious, what is your groups protocol on steep crooked fast descents?


Mine are, "Get off my wheel!" That's all. What do the Italians do in the Dolomites?


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## cxwrench (Nov 9, 2004)

Fredrico said:


> Mine are, "Get off my wheel!" That's all. What do the Italians do in the Dolomites?


About 100kph


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## ex_machina (Oct 20, 2015)

cxwrench said:


> How could you possibly ignore what's been one of the most beat down dead horses ever on this forum?


You are the most prolific poster in this thread.


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## pedalbiker (Nov 23, 2014)

velodog said:


> If the roads are that bad and the guys that you ride with are dimwits that you don't trust, maybe you should find others to ride with.
> 
> Or just ride lone wolf.


_Roads are awful after winter. _

_And I ride with 1s and 2s. Not that many around. Stuff happens in pacelines when you're moving fast. _

_If you don't ever ride fast enough to have that problem, then wonderful for you. Your silly advice is just that, though._


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## velodog (Sep 26, 2007)

pedalbiker said:


> Roads are awful after winter.
> 
> And I ride with 1s and 2s. Not that many around. Stuff happens in pacelines when you're moving fast.
> 
> If you don't ever ride fast enough to have that problem, then wonderful for you. Your silly advice is just that, though.


Hey, I understand that stuff happens, but you're the guy who called his riding partners dimwits.


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## pedalbiker (Nov 23, 2014)

.....


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## Fredrico (Jun 15, 2002)

velodog said:


> Hey, I understand that stuff happens, but you're the guy who called his riding partners dimwits.


Sometimes ya gotta ride with dimwits when the Cat 2s aren't around. :frown2:

Fact remains, the faster you ride, the better off you are with tires that like to hold their shape when the unexpected occurs. In a competitive group ride, when riders' tongues start hanging out, you don't want to get a pinch flat. 

90 psi, minimum. None of this low pressure, unless you're riding with old ladies social club.


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## ziscwg (Apr 19, 2010)

Fredrico said:


> Sometimes ya gotta ride with dimwits when the Cat 2s aren't around. :frown2:
> 
> Fact remains, the faster you ride, the better off you are with tires that like to hold their shape when the unexpected occurs. In a competitive group ride, when riders' tongues start hanging out, you don't want to get a pinch flat.
> 
> 90 psi, minimum. None of this low pressure, unless you're riding with old ladies social club.


All the dimwits are in Cat5. They pretty much turned me on to enduro racing since cat 5s had no ability to handle themselves


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## SPlKE (Sep 10, 2007)

Fredrico said:


> Sometimes ya gotta ride with dimwits when the Cat 2s aren't around. :frown2:
> 
> Fact remains, the faster you ride, the better off you are with tires that like to hold their shape when the unexpected occurs. In a competitive group ride, when riders' tongues start hanging out, you don't want to get a pinch flat.
> 
> 90 psi, minimum. None of this low pressure, unless you're riding with old ladies social club.


Good advice, Fredly.

I recommend 150 psi as a starting point.

OK, not really.

One thing I noticed is that after I switched over to CF bars and fork, I could run higher pressure on the front and not experience the vibration I had with a steel fork and aluminum bars.

True story: For the first few rides after I put on the CF bars, I kept checking my front tire because I thought it was going flat. Literally.


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## ex_machina (Oct 20, 2015)

SPlKE said:


> True story: For the first few rides after I put on the CF bars, I kept checking my front tire because I thought it was going flat. Literally.


Cool story, bro.


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## SPlKE (Sep 10, 2007)

ex_machina said:


> Cool story, bro.


Should I tell it again?


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## Doug B (Sep 11, 2009)

My tire pressure varies inversely to the ratio of commercial to home brew chain lube that I am using on a particular day. Of course that is just for the rear tire. 

My front tire pressure is based upon the phase of the moon, corrected for wind direction, in furlongs per fortnight.


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## factory feel (Nov 27, 2009)

SPlKE said:


> Should I tell it again?


use it as your sig


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## Local Hero (Jul 8, 2010)

Doug B said:


> My tire pressure varies inversely to the ratio of commercial to home brew chain lube that I am using on a particular day. Of course that is just for the rear tire.
> 
> My front tire pressure is based upon the phase of the moon, corrected for wind direction, in furlongs per fortnight.


I was a Cat6 masters/bike path warrior until I learned to match my tire pressure to my sunblock.


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## Fredrico (Jun 15, 2002)

SPlKE said:


> Good advice, Fredly.
> 
> I recommend 150 psi as a starting point.
> 
> ...


Do you suppose carbon rims add up to the same thing? Nah. The spokes will absorb considerable shocks, the thin wire ones, not the guillotines that will slice off an arm in a crash.

Good point about a little appreciated gift of carbon handlebars: comfort. No biggie, though. I like the feel of the road, to remind me, as with you apparently, when the feeling of the road attenuates, the tire is going flat. :cryin:

Another overlooked issue with psi vs. shock aborption: Expensive tires with high thread count sidewalls can still absorb shocks at high pressures and hug the road nicely at high speeds. The cheaper lower thread count tires don't absorb shocks nearly as well. So when aired up to high pressures, they bounce worse, aren't as fast or as comfortable as the high thread count tires. So you'd want to run them a little softer, which is what everybody seems to be doing.


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## Tig (Feb 9, 2004)

I'm 150 pounds and ride *32*mm clinchers at 70psi rear, 65psi front for the road. Very comfy, excellent cornering and bunny hopping over obstacles, and can hang with the 23+ pace group. No flats in the last 12 months, too.


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## Fredrico (Jun 15, 2002)

Tig said:


> I'm 150 pounds and ride *32*mm clinchers at 70psi rear, 65psi front for the road. Very comfy, excellent cornering and bunny hopping over obstacles, and can hang with the 23+ pace group. No flats in the last 12 months, too.


I want some! 

What make are these tires? Do they come in 28 mm? But then again, I'd have to air 'em up a bit more! 

One year a buddy rode a mountainbike with 1.50 slicks pumped up to 65 psi on the Hottern Hell Hundred in N. TX. It was a relatively flat course. He did fine.


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## Fredrico (Jun 15, 2002)

Doug B said:


> My tire pressure varies inversely to the ratio of commercial to home brew chain lube that I am using on a particular day. Of course that is just for the rear tire.
> 
> My front tire pressure is based upon the phase of the moon, corrected for wind direction, in furlongs per fortnight.


I'd like to try some of your "home brew chain lube." Do you drink it with orange juice? :ihih:


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## aclinjury (Sep 12, 2011)

This thread has outlived its original intent. It's now a thread about apple pie.


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## Fredrico (Jun 15, 2002)

aclinjury said:


> This thread has outlived its original intent. It's now a thread about apple pie.


When there's nothing left to say, then the discussion devolves into personal insults or jokes.

I did learn about the wide variations in tire pressure riders are using. Assumptions about under-inflation I've updated, knowing heavy riders are using sub 90 psi pressures and not getting pinch flats. We debated this topic all the time back in the 80s. Each rider makes a compromise between speed and comfort.

I've also renewed my appreciation that fatter tires ride fast aired up to considerably less pressures than skinnier tires. So I no longer worry about pumping up the 28s before each run to the grocery store. 

All useful to inform individual decisions on how to go.


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## SPlKE (Sep 10, 2007)

Tig said:


> I'm 150 pounds and ride *32*mm clinchers at 70psi rear, 65psi front for the road. Very comfy, excellent cornering and bunny hopping over obstacles, and can hang with the 23+ pace group. * No flats in the last 12 months, too.*


Aw crap! You've done it now.


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## aclinjury (Sep 12, 2011)

Fredrico said:


> When there's nothing left to say, then the discussion devolves into personal insults or jokes.
> 
> I did learn about the wide variations in tire pressure riders are using. Assumptions about under-inflation I've updated, knowing heavy riders are using sub 90 psi pressures and not getting pinch flats. We debated this topic all the time back in the 80s. Each rider makes a compromise between speed and comfort.
> 
> ...


every time a discussion on tire or tire pressure comes up, I'm reminded that there are more men with discerning butts then I realize. My god for the life of me I would never be able to tell the difference between 80 vs 90 psi in a 23mm or 25mm tire. Yet for some people, it's like world of difference. And i'm only 122 lbs. Maybe I just have lead butt man!


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## Lombard (May 8, 2014)

aclinjury said:


> every time a discussion on tire or tire pressure comes up, I'm reminded that there are more men with discerning butts then I realize. My god for the life of me I would never be able to tell the difference between 80 vs 90 psi in a 23mm or 25mm tire. Yet for some people, it's like world of difference. And i'm only 122 lbs. Maybe I just have lead butt man!



For me, it's more about front end vibrations and wrist fatigue. I am much less bothered by harshness in the seat. Which is why I carry 75 PSI front, 100 PSI rear. I can feel a big difference in the handlebars with just a 20 PSI reduction.


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## aclinjury (Sep 12, 2011)

Lombard said:


> For me, it's more about front end vibrations and wrist fatigue. I am much less bothered by harshness in the seat. Which is why I carry 75 PSI front, 100 PSI rear. I can feel a big difference in the handlebars with just a 20 PSI reduction.


Fair enough, if 75 psi it makes your wrists feel good, then you use it. 75 is just about the lowest psi I'd use for the front for a 25c tire. Got a pinch flat at 70 once from hitting a small but sharp pothole and that is still on my mind. Didn't think at my weight and 70 psi would get a pinch flat on the front that easily, but it did.


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## Fredrico (Jun 15, 2002)

aclinjury said:


> every time a discussion on tire or tire pressure comes up, I'm reminded that there are more men with discerning butts then I realize. My god for the life of me I would never be able to tell the difference between 80 vs 90 psi in a 23mm or 25mm tire. Yet for some people, it's like world of difference. And i'm only 122 lbs. Maybe I just have lead butt man!


You're too light to tell the difference. Carry another 60 pounds on the bike, you'll notice the difference.


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## Lombard (May 8, 2014)

aclinjury said:


> Fair enough, if 75 psi it makes your wrists feel good, then you use it. 75 is just about the lowest psi I'd use for the front for a 25c tire. Got a pinch flat at 70 once from hitting a small but sharp pothole and that is still on my mind. Didn't think at my weight and 70 psi would get a pinch flat on the front that easily, but it did.


You're 122lbs and got a pinch flat on the front? I'm 180lbs and have NEVER had a front pinch flat - not even when I used to run 23mm tires.


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## SPlKE (Sep 10, 2007)

Lombard said:


> For me, it's more about front end vibrations and wrist fatigue. I am much less bothered by harshness in the seat. Which is why I carry 75 PSI front, 100 PSI rear. I can feel a big difference in the handlebars with just a 20 PSI reduction.


I recommend a few things for your front-end vibration, all of which worked for me:

1. Tires with a higher thread count. I like Vredestein Tri-comp or whatever they call their top of the line tires this season. I ran Conti GP 3000 - 4000 series for years. The Vreds are much much better for cornering and vibration damping than the most expensive GP 4000 tires.

2. CF bars. I run Easton CF bars and that one upgrade made the biggest change of all in terms of damping vibration.

3. Fizik microtex tape with gel pads underneath the tape.

After I did all this, I stopped wearing riding gloves and haven't worn them in years.


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## Tig (Feb 9, 2004)

Fredrico said:


> I want some!
> 
> What make are these tires? Do they come in 28 mm? But then again, I'd have to air 'em up a bit more!
> 
> One year a buddy rode a mountainbike with 1.50 slicks pumped up to 65 psi on the Hottern Hell Hundred in N. TX. It was a relatively flat course. He did fine.



The 32's are Conti Gatorskins. Heavy and not super compliant, but they've been good to me.

I have a set of 28mm Conti Grand Prix 4000 II's ready as a lighter and more aero alternative. Since I'm actually going to ride the MS150 this year, they should be a smarter choice.


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## Hiro11 (Dec 18, 2010)

8 bar. I refuse to use PSI, 8 bar is better pressure.


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## Fredrico (Jun 15, 2002)

Tig said:


> The 32's are Conti Gatorskins. Heavy and not super compliant, but they've been good to me.
> 
> I have a set of 28mm Conti Grand Prix 4000 II's ready as a lighter and more aero alternative. Since I'm actually going to ride the MS150 this year, they should be a smarter choice.


Looks like I'm set, then. Running Gatorskin 28s on the commuter. Yes, a bit heavy and not as cushy as Grand Prix 4000s, but reliable and durable.

Guess I'll try backing off to 80 psi and see if they lose that sprightly feeling.


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## Fredrico (Jun 15, 2002)

SPlKE said:


> I recommend a few things for your front-end vibration, all of which worked for me:
> 
> 1. Tires with a higher thread count. I like Vredestein Tri-comp or whatever they call their top of the line tires this season. I ran Conti GP 3000 - 4000 series for years. The Vreds are much much better for cornering and vibration damping than the most expensive GP 4000 tires.
> 
> ...


Brother Grant [Peterson, Rivendell bikes] would be proud of you! I take it you don't throw out your arms to break your fall in a crash?


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## SPlKE (Sep 10, 2007)

Fredrico said:


> Brother Grant [Peterson, Rivendell bikes] would be proud of you! I take it you don't throw out your arms to break your fall in a crash?


I lead with my face. It's my go-to crumple zone.


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## tlg (May 11, 2011)

Fredrico said:


> Looks like I'm set, then. Running Gatorskin 28s on the commuter. Yes, a bit heavy and not as cushy as Grand Prix 4000s, but reliable and durable.


Look at the Continental 4 Seasons. They're almost as durable as the Gatorskins and ride a lot better.


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## aclinjury (Sep 12, 2011)

Lombard said:


> You're 122lbs and got a pinch flat on the front? I'm 180lbs and have NEVER had a front pinch flat - not even when I used to run 23mm tires.


Yep sure did. Hit a very small pothole at 22-23 mph, but the pothole had a sharp lip so my tire hit good! All the air was let out immediately with an instant loud hisss. Examined the tube to find the 2 snakebite holes. Pinched it! I was in a big group of riders so didn't see the pothole.

But this was not my first pinch flat either. A while back I pinched a rear tire, and that was on 23mm tire, 100 psi. Rear wheel hit a big crack on the road, going about 33-35 mph.

I've also pinched flat the rear a couple times trying to jump curbs! I did this on my beater bike of course. It was just messing around.


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## Lombard (May 8, 2014)

aclinjury said:


> Yep sure did. Hit a very small pothole at 22-23 mph, but the pothole had a sharp lip so my tire hit good! All the air was let out immediately with an instant loud hisss. Examined the tube to find the 2 snakebite holes. Pinched it! I was in a big group of riders so didn't see the pothole.
> 
> But this was not my first pinch flat either. A while back I pinched a rear tire, and that was on 23mm tire, 100 psi. Rear wheel hit a big crack on the road, going about 33-35 mph.
> 
> I've also pinched flat the rear a couple times trying to jump curbs! I did this on my beater bike of course. It was just messing around.



OK, even bomber pressures aren't insurance against all pinch flats. Long time ago, I got a pinch flat on the rear of my 38mm tire hybrid once hopping a curb diagonally. I learned never to do that again.

And if I hit any road hazards going above 30mph, I would simply be happy to be alive and wouldn't be thinking too much about my pinch flat.


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## aclinjury (Sep 12, 2011)

Lombard said:


> OK, even bomber pressures aren't insurance against all pinch flats. Long time ago, I got a pinch flat on the rear of my 38mm tire hybrid once hopping a curb* diagonally*. I learned never to do that again.
> 
> And if I hit any road hazards going above 30mph, I would simply be happy to be alive and wouldn't be thinking too much about my pinch flat.


you never, ever, jump a curb diagonally unless you are 100 percent absolutely positively know you can clear it with a good 8"-12" to spare, at least. If the rear wheel catches the lip of the curb and it fails to roll over the curb, chances are the rear wheel will now track/skid along the curb and down you go, in style! I learned this quickly in my childhood BMX days!


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## Fredrico (Jun 15, 2002)

tlg said:


> Look at the Continental 4 Seasons. They're almost as durable as the Gatorskins and ride a lot better.


Thanks for the heads up. I'll try them out when the time comes! High thread count 28s might very well ride like tubulars.


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## Fredrico (Jun 15, 2002)

SPlKE said:


> I lead with my face. It's my go-to crumple zone.


:lol: I always use my shoulder. My bikes are in great shape, but broke both collarbones twice.


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## Lombard (May 8, 2014)

aclinjury said:


> you never, ever, jump a curb diagonally unless you are 100 percent absolutely positively know you can clear it with a good 8"-12" to spare, at least. If the rear wheel catches the lip of the curb and it fails to roll over the curb, chances are the rear wheel will now track/skid along the curb and down you go, in style! I learned this quickly in my childhood BMX days!




Yes, yes, exactly. Lesson learned! As I said before:



Lombard said:


> I got a pinch flat on the rear of my 38mm tire hybrid once hopping a curb diagonally. *I learned never to do that again.*


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## Terrasmak (Jan 8, 2015)

I always run 110psi front and rear on my 23c tires. Don't know if I could ride less with my local roads. I'm looking forward to swapping up to 25c tires when I wear my tires out.


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## SPlKE (Sep 10, 2007)

Fredrico said:


> :lol: I always use my shoulder. My bikes are in great shape, but broke both collarbones twice.


Back when I used to MTB exclusively, late 80s - early 90s, landing face-first in the dirt was referred to as going to McDonalds. "Man, did you see that? I really went to McDonalds!"


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## Lombard (May 8, 2014)

SPlKE said:


> Back when I used to MTB exclusively, late 80s - early 90s, landing face-first in the dirt was referred to as going to McDonalds. "Man, did you see that? I really went to McDonalds!"



Going to McDonald's? Does this have something to do with eating dirt?


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## SPlKE (Sep 10, 2007)

Lombard said:


> Going to McDonald's? Does this have something to do with eating dirt?


It was never fully explained. But that was the prevailing assumption.


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## Jay Strongbow (May 8, 2010)

What impact will disc brakes have on the tire pressure I should use?


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## Jon D (Apr 11, 2011)

Jay Strongbow said:


> What impact will disc brakes have on the tire pressure I should use?


None. It's the size of the tire & your weight


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## Jay Strongbow (May 8, 2010)

Jon D said:


> None. It's the size of the tire & your weight


I was just joking/trolling. Thanks for the good faith answer though.


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## Fredrico (Jun 15, 2002)

Jay Strongbow said:


> What impact will disc brakes have on the tire pressure I should use?


Well, you COULD put a little more air in the tires. No risk of blowing them off the rim from riding the brakes on a steep down hill!


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## SPlKE (Sep 10, 2007)

Fredrico said:


> Well, you COULD put a little more air in the tires. No risk of blowing them off the rim from riding the brakes on a steep down hill!


Wouldn't that cancel out the totally radical modulation you get with disk breaks?


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## ridesmasterx (Aug 3, 2013)

Just enough so it ain't squishy cuz that makes it hard to ride and just enoughI so it ain't too hard!!


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## MMsRepBike (Apr 1, 2014)

How to choose your tyre pressure | road.cc


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## ex_machina (Oct 20, 2015)

I'm experimenting with psi between 65 and 75 psi front and rear. 

Not surprisingly, lower pressures results in a much more comfortable ride. I no longer feel "beat up" after a ride. I'm a lot less sore and therefore can ride longer and feel better after a ride. I also don't feel like I have to take a day off after a ride. 

I feel as if I'm riding a bit slower however. I have a computer but don't always set the computer to record trip time or average speed. I did on my last ride, and averaged just over 14 mph. The headwind was absolutely nasty. I was riding rolling hills against the wind and that was extremely challenging. 

My previous averages were between 16 and 17 mph on the same route, but I can't say whether the slower speed this time was due exclusively to the headwinds or due to the lower tire pressure.


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## cxwrench (Nov 9, 2004)

ex_machina said:


> I'm experimenting with psi between 65 and 75 psi front and rear.
> 
> Not surprisingly, lower pressures results in a much more comfortable ride. I no longer feel "beat up" after a ride. I'm a lot less sore and therefore can ride longer and feel better after a ride. I also don't feel like I have to take a day off after a ride.
> 
> ...


That's close to what I use for 28mm tires at my 170+ weight. The aerodynamic drag due to head wind will do much more to slow you down than rolling resistance. Those bigger tires might actually roll slightly better depending on the surface texture of the pavement.


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## Fredrico (Jun 15, 2002)

Lombard said:


> Going to McDonald's? Does this have something to do with eating dirt?


We used that expression. I always thought it referred to rider's chin looking like hamburger meat after the crash. :


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## ex_machina (Oct 20, 2015)

Well the rain has cleared up. But now I'm dealing with 15-20 mph headwinds for the next week and a half. Geez.


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## Fredrico (Jun 15, 2002)

ex_machina said:


> Well the rain has cleared up. But now I'm dealing with 15-20 mph headwinds for the next week and a half. Geez.


Air those tires back up to 90 psi, ex. Soft rolling tires don't go all that well with headwinds. They'll just slow you down worse.

If you go out into the wind and come back with a tail wind, harder tires will let you fly a MPH or two faster.


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## velodog (Sep 26, 2007)

ex_machina said:


> Well the rain has cleared up. But now I'm dealing with 15-20 mph headwinds for the next week and a half. Geez.


The good thing about riding in the wind is the feeling of elation when the ride is over.


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## PBL450 (Apr 12, 2014)

ex_machina said:


> Well the rain has cleared up. But now I'm dealing with 15-20 mph headwinds for the next week and a half. Geez.


Spent a lot of winter on a fatty, upright, doing 20-30+ headwinds on the beach in the sand in below freezing temps. It's nice when it's at your back!


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