# Why wider tires on commuters?



## Fixed (May 12, 2005)

There seems to be a consistent recommendation for wider (like 28mm+) tires on commuter bikes. I don't understand this. People do centuries, double centuries, and longer on 23mm tires pumped to 110-120 psi. Why the need for wider tires to ride 10 to 20 miles?


----------



## PlatyPius (Feb 1, 2009)

Wow...


----------



## Pablo (Jul 7, 2004)

Wider tires ride nicer.


----------



## Fixed (May 12, 2005)

*efficiency?*



Pablo said:


> Wider tires ride nicer.


So, I assume I just forfeited my Commuter Card? ;-)

Sure, wider tires ride nicer, but they seem to be less efficient. Efficiency just not important to some on the commute?


----------



## Scott B (Dec 1, 2004)

Man, wow, I never found 23mm tires to be comfy. My roadie now rolls with 28mm at 95psi. My touring/commuter rig has 32's at the moment. My crash around bike has 26 x 2in balloon tires.

I tend to ride on a fair number of streets that are pretty bad. Having bigger tires adds a little bit of cushion to the ride. I also like the way my bike handles when it has bigger tires. To a certain degree it's just preference I guess. If you are comfy on 23mm tires then more power to you. When I ran 23's if I was on a rough road my back would go on strike.


----------



## PlatyPius (Feb 1, 2009)

Fixed said:


> So, I assume I just forfeited my Commuter Card? ;-)
> 
> Sure, wider tires ride nicer, but they seem to be less efficient. Efficiency just not important to some on the commute?


How efficient is it standing beside the road changing a flat?

Commuters have wider tires for comfort, but also primarily for survival. City streets are brutal on tires. The skinnier and higher the pressure, the more likely they are to explode/go flat/get damaged. Wider tires help ensure that you get to work on time; and reasonably clean.


----------



## buck-50 (Sep 20, 2005)

Wider tires take a beating a lot better than skinny tires.

On a century, you're usually out in the country, on fairly consistent roads.

If your commute is anything like mine, there's gravel, broken road, curbs, bad transitions between bike paths and streets, etc. 

When I rode narrow tires, I got flats. With 32s, I don't. 

Plus, the extra cush seems (and this is completely anecdotal to me) to keep my wheels from going out of true as often.


----------



## JCavilia (Sep 12, 2005)

2 main factors, one of which has been mentined several times, and the other not at all:

1. road condition and flat protection.

2. bigger loads (sometimes).

I commute on two different bikes (both fixed gear), depending on conditions. In nice weather, when I don't have much to carry, I ride a pretty light bike with 23mm tires. The roads aren't too bad on most of my route. On rainy days, or when I'm carrying a week's worth of clothes, or other junk, I use a bike with fenders, rack and panniers. The bike is easily 7-8 pounds heavier than the other one, and I might carry another 10 pounds of stuff. It has bigger tires (27 x 1 1/4", about equivalent to 700/32C)


----------



## Topher (Jun 5, 2005)

In the heavy morning traffic I'm not racing to work anyway.... its almost always safer to slow it down and take it easy. I'm just trying to get to work and not get hit...


----------



## tarwheel2 (Jul 7, 2005)

A lot depends on the condition of the roads you commute on. I commuted for two years on 23s and 25s with no problems because roads are pretty good on my route. I recently installed 28s because my touring bike can handle much larger tires than my previous commuter bikes and I'm running Conti GP 4 Seasons that are pretty light weight even in 28 mm. However, I honestly notice very little difference in comfort with the 28s, and I rarely ever get flats no matter what size tire I am running. If the roads were crappy on my route, I would definitely go for larger tires.


----------



## Fixed (May 12, 2005)

*reminder*



Scott B said:


> Man, wow, I never found 23mm tires to be comfy. My roadie now rolls with 28mm at 95psi. My touring/commuter rig has 32's at the moment. My crash around bike has 26 x 2in balloon tires.
> 
> I tend to ride on a fair number of streets that are pretty bad. Having bigger tires adds a little bit of cushion to the ride. I also like the way my bike handles when it has bigger tires. To a certain degree it's just preference I guess. If you are comfy on 23mm tires then more power to you. When I ran 23's if I was on a rough road my back would go on strike.


Sorry, I guess I needed a reminder that not all roads are like the ones here. This is a typical Fresno road:


----------



## ph0enix (Aug 12, 2009)

I wonder how much more efficient 23's actually are over, let's say, 28's. My guess: NOT MUCH. It's not enough of a difference unless you are in race and every second counts.


----------



## PlatyPius (Feb 1, 2009)

25 at slightly lower pressure is more efficient than a 23 in most races.

23s "feel" faster, so uninformed people still demand them.


----------



## skepticman (Dec 25, 2005)

The newer wide 22-23mm rims (HED, Zipp, Velocity, others) with 23c tires and 80-90psi are a lot more comfortable than 19mm rims with 23c tires and 90-100psi. I think they're at least as good as 19mm rims and 25c tires, and I prefer the firmer ride quality with the wide rim.


----------



## jerryon (May 28, 2006)

I run 25s with no problem, I fear jinxing myself but rarely have flats. I carry a panier too. I have 22 mile commute, one way so I like to go as quick as possible, even to work, it means a little more sleep. Also have the theory that the more speed I carry when in traffic the more "respect' I get from cars, can't prove it though.


----------



## RedRex (Oct 24, 2004)

ph0enix said:


> I wonder how much more efficient 23's actually are over, let's say, 28's. My guess: NOT MUCH. It's not enough of a difference unless you are in race and every second counts.




It's not easy to shed the _*"must-look-like-a-racer-at-all-times-even-though-I-never-race"*_ mentality that has poisoned the bike industry and most of it's inexperienced participants. 

I had a friend that ordered a Soma Double Cross for commuting from a local shop, to be built with racks, fenders, lights, etc. etc. You know what kind of wheels they sold her?

Bladed, radially-spoked, Peesyriums something or other. I was only able to hold my tongue for a month or so before I finally said, "you know, they just sold you racing wheels for your touring bike. Now, why do you think they did that?"

Shees.

If you're geared up for looking like a racer on your ride to work, may as wellsshow up at your local crit-crash riding a hybrid with a basket.


----------



## Fixed (May 12, 2005)

*Looks?*



RedRex said:


> It's not easy to shed the _*"must-look-like-a-racer-at-all-times-even-though-I-never-race"*_ mentality that has poisoned the bike industry and most of it's inexperienced participants.


To me, it has nothing to do with looking like a racer. I'm on a fixed gear with bullhorns, wearing high-vis yellow, a mirror, and wearing a Camelbak and mtb shoes, with super bright lights. Not much chance of pulling off the racer look. 

It's about feel and speed. For me, wider tires feel mushier, and make me feel like I'm giving up efficiency, and therefore speed. Yes, while not a "race," I like to ride fast to and from work. Has anyone seen some tests that show efficiency numbers? Also, I've seen no difference in flat frequency using wider tires vs. 23 mm. Under 23 mm, I used to get pinch flats, but never use narrower tires anymore. Never get pinch flats with 23 mm, though.


----------



## RedRex (Oct 24, 2004)

Fixed said:


> To me, it has nothing to do with looking like a racer. I'm on a fixed gear with bullhorns



With brakes?

How do you carry commuting supplies?


----------



## Fixed (May 12, 2005)

*supplies*



RedRex said:


> With brakes?
> 
> How do you carry commuting supplies?


Front brake on main ride, two brakes on others. Shirts, suits, ties, shoes stay at work, and I have dry cleaning/laundry pick up. Underwear and socks go back and forth. Everything fits easily in large Camelbak. Been doing it for 4 years, and works great.


----------



## Opus51569 (Jul 21, 2009)

I have 23s on my commuter, but primarily because they were the tires that were on the bike when I started converting it from being my road bike to a commuter. The tires have held up very well so far despite the crappy road conditions. I had considered getting an inexpensive set of 25s or 28s but haven't yet because:

A.) I'm cheap and usually broke.
B.) The 23s are riding just fine.

So, I'll wait until they wear out and then probably make the switch to a 25 of some kind.


----------



## PeanutButterBreath (Dec 4, 2005)

*23's here.*

I have 23C tires on my commuter. I ride plenty bad streets -- plenty of potholes, gravel and there are streetcars in SLC so I cross recessed tracks at least 4 times a day. Today I pumped up my rear tire, which had gone down to 70 PSI since I last inflated it.

I weigh 170, FWIW.

I haven't been plagued by flats, so far, and 23s are plenty comfortable at 80-90 PSI 

I agree that riding uber-tough, large volume tires is not automatically necessary when commuting. _If_ flats are a problem, then sure.

I have been toying with the idea of buying some really nice 23s when my current tires wear -- why should I deprive myself on my daily ride?


----------



## Pablo (Jul 7, 2004)

Fixed said:


> So, I assume I just forfeited my Commuter Card? ;-)
> 
> Sure, wider tires ride nicer, but they seem to be less efficient. Efficiency just not important to some on the commute?


With commuting, it's nice to not have to worry about chagning a flat, or at least have the risk reduced. You're more likely to arrive on time and, when it's really cold, the last thing on earth you want is to have to take your gloves off.

My preference for wider and thicker more durable tires is not limited to commuting. I prefer slightly wider tires just because they are nicer and more enjoyable, especially for when I get an inkling to turn onto some dirt roads or whatever. I also really like not having to change flats or worry about it. They are slightly heavier and they are rotational weight and may therefor require more effort on my part, but as I don't race, I'll give up a touch of efficieny for a touch of comfort and fun.

I used to ride 23s and they are fine. I rode them on dirt as well. However, I just like a bit more tire under me nowadays. Nevertheless, if my really strong friends take me on a deathmarch, I switch to lighter tires because I need all the help I can get.


----------



## singlecross (Nov 1, 2006)

Fixed said:


> It's about feel and speed. For me, wider tires feel mushier, and make me feel like I'm giving up efficiency, and therefore speed. Yes, while not a "race," I like to ride fast to and from work. Has anyone seen some tests that show efficiency numbers?


Yes, Bicycle Quarterly has done tests of tires showing that wider tires at softer pressures can be more efficient than skinnies pumped way up, especially on bumpier surfaces. Suspension losses and vibrations translated to the rider are spoken about at length.

http://www.vintagebicyclepress.com/vbqindex.html

http://www.vintagebicyclepress.com/images/BQ64TireTest.pdf

singlecross


----------



## rcnute (Dec 21, 2004)

I have cobbles on my commute. Seriously, cobbles!


----------



## seeborough (Feb 3, 2004)

Fixed said:


> There seems to be a consistent recommendation for wider (like 28mm+) tires on commuter bikes. I don't understand this. People do centuries, double centuries, and longer on 23mm tires pumped to 110-120 psi. Why the need for wider tires to ride 10 to 20 miles?


I use 28s because of the extra load I carry in the mornings. I ride my daughter to kindergarten, her back pack, my stuff etc. Riders, gear and bike, we probably top out somewhere around 280 lbs altogether. On our bumpy roads, that would be enough for daily pinch flat disasters.


----------



## Slim Again Soon (Oct 25, 2005)

Because it's not a race ... it's a ride to work.


----------



## jackblack (Feb 1, 2007)

I run 23's or 25's. I prefer the 23's. i live in the City so most of my riding is in the City. Doesn't matter if I am going to work or riding my training loops, I am riding on similar roads. 

25's at 90 psi don't ride that much better than the 23's with 100 psi to me.


----------



## RedRex (Oct 24, 2004)

Slim Again said:


> Because it's not a race ... it's a ride to work.



The disease is so strong, it takes quite a few years for most to be completely healthy. My own recovery took nearly six years.

Unfortunately, not all can be cured.


----------



## bigbill (Feb 15, 2005)

My PNW commute is 43 miles round trip on relatively good roads with around 1400 feet of climbing in each direction. I ride 25mm gatorskin ultras with a mr tuffy in the rear. I ride big inner tubes (28-38mm) and I find this setup is pretty much bulletproof. My commuter wheels are PW hubs, Velocity DeepV, and 36 spokes. 

When I commuted in Hawaii, each day was an adventure but the round trip was only 26 miles. I used a 28mm Specialized Nimbus Armadillo on the rear and a 25mm on the front due to fork/fender clearance. Typically Armadillo tires have the same road feel as wrapping your rims in electrical tape, but the Nimbus tires have an inverted tread that rides really nice. I never wore out a tire in Hawaii, usually I would replace the tire when it was more cuts and missing chunks than tread. I once rode home on a front tire that was missing 2" of tread with just the casing showing. Typically three months (1800 miles) on the rear, six months on the front. New chain with a new rear tire. Used the same cassette for two years. 

IMO, there is no hard and fast way of choosing commuting tires. Personally, I would never commute on smaller than a 25mm, but if you have a longer commute or really good conditions, a 25mm at a lower pressure is plenty comfy.


----------



## Dave Hickey (Jan 27, 2002)

Riding in the dark, I prefer wider tires because pot holes and debris aren't as easily seen.

If I commuted in daylight hours, I wouldn't worry about it


----------



## brucew (Jun 3, 2006)

Fixed said:


> Sorry, I guess I needed a reminder that not all roads are like the ones here. This is a typical Fresno road:


Yow! I didn't even know roads like that existed. You Photoshopped that surface from a pool table, right?



rcnute said:


> I have cobbles on my commute. Seriously, cobbles!


Mine too!










Edit: This also explains why I use Blackburn's Switchback stainless steel bottle cages. They're the only cages I've ever used that don't spit out the bottles when descending that.


----------



## MTT (Oct 14, 2005)

Fixed said:


> There seems to be a consistent recommendation for wider (like 28mm+) tires on commuter bikes. I don't understand this. People do centuries, double centuries, and longer on 23mm tires pumped to 110-120 psi. Why the need for wider tires to ride 10 to 20 miles?


Depends what your commute looks like. For me I only have 18 miles R.T., so a size 32 gives more grip in the rain, slows me down for traffic and makes it a better work out (I treat my commute as base miles and I try to ride hard most days). When I used to go 44 R.T. I used the 23s at 120psi; so your point is well taken...........MTT :thumbsup:


----------



## goodwij (Sep 15, 2008)

Agreed with riding in the dark. Hard to see everything on the road at night. I ride on my converted mountain bike with fat, slick 26" tires. Also, part of my commute is in a park with dirt trails covered with mulch and I carry work clothes and lunch. 
I also like to think that while riding on fat tires I get a little more exercise on my 10 mile round trip commute. (Getting on the road bike for a weekend 60 miler its almost like I don't have to pedal after the weeks worth of fat tire commuting).


----------



## blakcloud (Apr 13, 2006)

I commute on 32's which came on my Masi Speciale Commuter and I don't think I will ever go back to smaller tires on this bike. Yes the tires are heavier but they are comfy. So far no flats which is nice. The roads in Toronto take more of a beating than Fresno, since we get the snow and frost upheaval which breaks up the pavement. Cracked pavement and potholes are the norm in spring but they eventually do get fixed but it takes time. Until then I have to ride over them and the larger tires seems to help in this regard. 

Fixed, I am envious of your commute on those roads.


----------



## BentChainring (Jun 23, 2005)

Passing a Cervello riding roadie on 19mm skinnies feels much better on your pannier laden, 28mm tire LHT.

...just sayin...


----------



## rmsmith (Feb 15, 2007)

I run the Continental Top Contact 37-mm folding tires on my commuter / family bicycle. It's a great tire for adventure cycling easily handling most road conditions.


----------



## Mr. Versatile (Nov 24, 2005)

I agree with almost all of the above plus my experience has been that wide tires wear longer.


----------



## RedRex (Oct 24, 2004)

This is why I ride wider tires....on my 26 mile RT commute, I can take four miles in mild dirt instead of the neighborhood, and the dirt is much more enjoyable, IMHO.


----------



## Slim Again Soon (Oct 25, 2005)

Also, I get fewer flats with wider tires.

Mainly, though, it's about comfort and control.


----------



## Henry Chinaski (Feb 3, 2004)

I first started my current commute on my Merckx with 700 x 25s. I was getting at least one flat per week (my work route takes me through construction areas, lots of potholes, glass, random crap, etc.). And with winter approaching I was going through this in the dark and often in the rain. So I switched to a cross bike with beefy 700 x 32s which feel a lot safer in these conditions. Also, no flats in the last four years.


----------



## JohnnyTooBad (Apr 5, 2004)

Pretty much the same excuses here. I ride 28s because it's only a 10.5mi commute (one way), so I'm not looking to break any land speed records. I like the fact that it's a bit softer when traffic forces me to ride across something I'd rather not (glass, debris, tree branches, pot holes, etc). Plus I have more tread for grip (they've been in ice and snow a number of times, plus the occasional puddles and rain) and I notice a huge difference in how hard I can pull the brake levers before they lock up. Some times you just need to stop.... NOW!!!!


----------



## JCavilia (Sep 12, 2005)

*But then again,*



Slim Again said:


> Because it's not a race ... it's a ride to work.


everything's a race, in a way. It's like the copy in that Nike "just do it" magazine ad a few years ago: "There's someone chasing you, and he's wearing your clothes, and he's too old, and he's too fat, and if you slow down, he'll catch you. Just do it." 

That was a great bit of ad writing there. That guy chases me on the commute a lot of days, and he's keeping me in fair shape as I approach birthday number 111100 this week (going binary from here on out). Now if he could make me eat less cake and candy . . . . .


----------



## crossracer (Jun 21, 2004)

As a big guy 230lbs and a heavy bike (almost 50 lbs fully loaded) big tires are a must. i run 35 mm and still average almost 16 miles an hour on the beast. However the biggest thing wasnt flats protection or speed, it was a crack sucking in my front wheel one dark night that almost threw me off the bike. Since i went to the 35mm i have hit several cracks like that again and just rode right thru them with no issues at all. 

Bill


----------



## RedRex (Oct 24, 2004)

JCavilia said:


> everything's a race, in a way. .



Not really.

I go backpacking in the Sierra Nevada. Lets say I have a five mile hike one day, and I leave at a respectable 9am. 

Doesn't make much sense for me to rush to my next campsite. Sometimes you just want to enjoy the walk at a nice steady pace. 

Don't get me wrong, I ride hard on the weekends, ultradistance where time is especially critical. But on my commute?...

If my 32's take me two minutes longer than my 23's on my 13 mile commute? I figure I've used those extra two minutes to burn more calories and make more memories.


----------



## JCavilia (Sep 12, 2005)

RedRex said:


> Not really.
> I go backpacking in the Sierra Nevada. Lets say I have a five mile hike one day, and I leave at a respectable 9am.
> Doesn't make much sense for me to rush to my next campsite. Sometimes you just want to enjoy the walk at a nice steady pace.
> Don't get me wrong, I ride hard on the weekends, ultradistance where time is especially critical. But on my commute?...
> If my 32's take me two minutes longer than my 23's on my 13 mile commute? I figure I've used those extra two minutes to burn more calories and make more memories.


You missed my point completely, but that's because I didn't make it very well, and also because it was really irrelevant to the discussion in this thread. My bad. Or as Emily Litella would say, "never mind."


----------



## DrRoebuck (May 10, 2004)

I ride 23mm Hutchinson Fusions (Road Tubeless) on my Gunnar commuter. It rides great and I don't have to worry about flats.


----------



## Fixed (May 12, 2005)

*oh no*



Henry Chinaski said:


> Also, no flats in the last four years.


You're screwed.


----------



## bolandjd (Sep 12, 2008)

Since noone else mentioned it, I might as well.... Fatter tires at lower pressures also saves wear and tear on your wheels. Also very useful it you're forced to ride a little "urban singletrack". On my commute, I have to go a couple miles on a dirt park trail (its either that or a) ride on the freeway b) swim in a river or c) add 5 more miles to the commute through one of the worst neighborhoods in Washington D.C.). So fatty tires (which fit fine on my LHT, by the way) are what I use. 23mm tires might work if I weighed like 123 lbs. But I don't.


----------



## f3rg (May 11, 2008)

I went from 23s at 100psi to 25s at 90psi, and the ride not only got smoother, but faster. The slightly large volume doesn't feel squishy at all, and I feel less beaten--especially my hands--at the end of a long ride.


----------



## BentChainring (Jun 23, 2005)

DrRoebuck said:


> I ride 23mm Hutchinson Fusions (Road Tubeless) on my Gunnar commuter. It rides great and I don't have to worry about flats.



That bike looks familiar... Talk to me about tubeless road tires...


----------



## il sogno (Jul 15, 2002)

Fixed said:


> There seems to be a consistent recommendation for wider (like 28mm+) tires on commuter bikes. I don't understand this. People do centuries, double centuries, and longer on 23mm tires pumped to 110-120 psi. Why the need for wider tires to ride 10 to 20 miles?


I have to say, I've been wondering the same thing myself.


----------



## Argentius (Aug 26, 2004)

*Hey hey now*



il sogno said:


> I have to say, I've been wondering the same thing myself.


You weight like 18 pounds, don't you? 

I have a tough task, a commute that's 25 miles, one-way (was 30, hey!), with some fairly cruddy roads thrown in.

So, I need to both go reasonably fast, but, make pretty good time. In summer, when it is light out when I leave and rains less, I roll 700 x 23's, just fairly durable ones.

But, in winter, it is dark and raining out, I cannot really avoid every pothole and piece of road debris. With the 700 x 23's, I was getting flats like twice a week; with 700 x 32 VIttoria Randonneurs, I got one flat in the entire season.

But, oof, I definitely did feel the weight of the things. I'm convinced that with 70 PSI or so, I was protecting my rims from all of the beating a bit, too, though there's no scientific evidence on that.


----------



## il sogno (Jul 15, 2002)

Argentius said:


> You weight like 18 pounds, don't you?
> 
> I have a tough task, a commute that's 25 miles, one-way (was 30, hey!), with some fairly cruddy roads thrown in.
> 
> ...


The flats you were getting - were they pinch flats?

Up until a few weeks ago, I ran tubulars on my "commuter bike" which was my old steel framed Pogliaghi. I never got a flat, but I'm lucky that way.

These days I use my 10 year old Colnago Dream with 700x23 clinchers. It's a very fast commuter. 

18 pounds? I wish...


----------



## hepcatbent (Aug 19, 2009)

'cause I can buy 35s for $9.99 each? 'cause a commute isn't a race? 'cause comfort is more important to me in daily distance riding than a little extra speed? 'cause changing a flat in the rain on the side of the road is no fun? 'cause fatter tires have heavier casings and stand up to a beating better?

I confess that I ride a tractor bike. It's a full-on touring build that I put together to be rugged, not fast... but it's comfortable and so far, stone-reliable. It won't run any races, but it'll get me where I want to go with a minimum of maintenance or worry about breakdowns.

If you wanna go fast, then fine... get a 15 lb bike with tires that look like straws wrapped around a four-spoke wheel. If you want to get where you're going, do it every day, on all kinds of bad roads, and not spend a whole lotta time and money fixing stuff (frames included) then get something that's up to the task. 

Frankly, I'd probably be running 32s... but seriously, I got both sets of tires (road slicks and trail/touring tread) I have for $9.99 each!


----------

