# Why are LBS wheel true services so expensive?



## Gerbila (Aug 17, 2003)

I just had my wheel trued by the LBS. I attempted to do this myself but was less than successful. The wheel went out of true on the next ride. So I decided I would let the pro's do it. I gave them my wheel and asked them to true it laterally and radially, as well as even out the tension. Well it ended up costing me 25 bucks. This will be worth it if the wheel lasts, but I'm wondering why the cost of trueing a wheel is so much. I mean I see places charging only a bit more than that for building up a wheel, which I assume requires a lot more time and effort. Or maybe not. Just wanting to get some perspective. Maybe I'm underestimating the effort it takes to do a major wheel true, or maybe my LBS charges a bit much.


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## curlybike (Jan 23, 2002)

Frequently the cost of labor for a wheel truing is dependent on the time required. I have worked on many wheels that required more time to get true and dependable, than building a new wheel with new components. I have had to completely disassemble wheels before I could get them to true up. This often happens after a rider tries to true a wheel with no idea what he is doing, and then takes it to the shop. Although I am sure that this does not apply to you.


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## Henry Chinaski (Feb 3, 2004)

When I worked in shops (up to the mid 90s) I charged $20 to build a wheel and $5-8 to true one up. $25 sounds high to me but then I'm out of touch. What do they charge to change a tube these days? We used to charge $5...


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## sorebut (Nov 21, 2001)

In our area truing a wheel is $15.00..


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## Bikinfoolferlife (Aug 13, 2004)

*Keep trying to learn how to true your wheels*

as it is an essential skill for a cyclist IMHO. However, good tools help a lot and make it easier (truing stand). Reading up a bit on wheels is good, too; you have to understand what you're doing. 

In order for the shop to do the job you asked I think $25 in our area would be fair (San Francisco) if you had really screwed up the wheel. On the other hand, I'd expect to pay less if they had to do minimal work to fix it up (i.e. was it a good hand built wheel in the first place? Or were they correcting not only your handiwork but also a not so great build?). Of course I would expect such a wheel to be pretty damn solid for a while and would expect minor touch ups gratis. I build my own and rarely need to true 'em unless I screw 'em up with poor riding choices (potholes, crashes, etc.)


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## Spoke Wrench (Aug 20, 2001)

To me it should depend on how long it took to do. If you have an up-and-down issue, it can easily take nearly as long to true the wheel as it would to build a new one from scratch. A wheel that somebody else has unsuccessfully futzed with will usually take longer to do. Without knowing what was required, I'd say that $25.00 might be on the high side, but it certainly isn't out of the reasonable range.


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## Dinosaur (Jan 29, 2004)

*What I did...*

My LBS charges $8.00 per wheel, but this time of year is busy and I might have to wait a week or so just to have a wheel trued. I broke down and bought a wheel truing stand. Not the best in the world, a Spin Doctor from Performance on sale for $34.00. I'm on about my 5th truing job for my rear wheel and it's just about perfect. I think I could do a better job with a better truing stand such as a Park TS-2. I find it takes a lot of time and patience and learning exactly how much to tighten and untighten the right spokes. Park has a online tech guide that tells you how to true a wheel, basicially it's an art, but with time and a lot of patience you can learn how to true you own wheels. It's kind of fun, like meditating in a quite space and getting lost in your mind with a spoke wrench in your hand. It can be done...


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## Bocephus Jones (Feb 3, 2004)

Gerbila said:


> I just had my wheel trued by the LBS. I attempted to do this myself but was less than successful. The wheel went out of true on the next ride. So I decided I would let the pro's do it. I gave them my wheel and asked them to true it laterally and radially, as well as even out the tension. Well it ended up costing me 25 bucks. This will be worth it if the wheel lasts, but I'm wondering why the cost of trueing a wheel is so much. I mean I see places charging only a bit more than that for building up a wheel, which I assume requires a lot more time and effort. Or maybe not. Just wanting to get some perspective. Maybe I'm underestimating the effort it takes to do a major wheel true, or maybe my LBS charges a bit much.


learn to do it yourself then. it takes some getting used to. i screwed up a wheel once by overtruing it. a little adjustment goes a long ways. in any event my LBS has never charged me for a true. Of course I had them build my last set of wheels so they seem to have no problem giving them a quick true if needed.


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## Coolhand (Jul 28, 2002)

*I think you answered your own question*



> I attempted to do this myself but was less than successful.


Its sometimes takes longer to save a poorly built/trued wheel then building a new one.


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## tarwheel (May 22, 2004)

*truing*

My usual LBS charged me $10 to true my wheels when I've had it done in the past. Generally only the back wheel needs truing. I had another bike shop "service" my Campy wheels last winter, involving repacking the hubs and truing both wheels. They charged $60. I later had my usual LBS provide the same service on my other bike with Ultegra wheelsr, and he charged me only $25.


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## ritjobbie (Jun 30, 2004)

*twenty bucks*

My favorite LBS charges $20/tire for truing. I only take it there if my wheel is really pwn3d, though (like last week when I put a huge ding in my rear wheel). I do any minor truing/maintenance on my own w/out a truing stand. If I can get it w/in 1mm or so w/out a truing stand, it's good enough for me.

~Jay


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## Al1943 (Jun 23, 2003)

*Not too much $.*

Last week I decided that I wasn't satisfied with the radial true of a wheel set that I built earlier this year, both wheels were out of round about 1/2mm, lateral true and tension were perfect. I spent 2 hours on a TS-2 truing stand in the heat of my garage. $25 for a really good truing job sounds pretty cheap right now.
~Al


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## evAn (Apr 24, 2004)

*at my shop*

its 10 bucks a true, labor is 49.99 and hour if it is brutally ****ed, a tube is 5 and a cheap ass tire is 10


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## jmoryl (Sep 5, 2004)

*Why my LBS doesn't get much business from me....*

I broke a spoke on an older rear wheel this past summer and took the wheel into the nearest decent shop so I could pick up a replacement. After a guy in the back found a couple spokes of the correct length, I went to register to pay the one of the attitude-laden kids that deign to work there. He had rung up $1.50 ea. for the spokes and $27 dollars for installing the spoke and truing the wheel. I told him I could install the spoke and true it myself and with rolling eyes, etc. he proceeded to charge me for only the spokes. 

Once I got home, I was able to install the spoke and true the wheel in a matter of minutes...


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## cxwrench (Nov 9, 2004)

*if, as you admitted,*

the wheel was a mess when you brought it in, and your work has to be un-done before the repair can start, that is totally reasonable. i manage a shop, and i'd much rather have a customer bring in a wheel that's out, and just let me fix it. it takes years and years of experience and a good teacher to really become compitent w/ wheels, way more time than any other part of the bike. i've been at it for over 10 years, and the guy the owns the shop i run just started calling me an "master" wheel builder (i'm still not so sure...). that's after hundreds of wheels that were in my opinion really good (stay true, don't break spokes, last years). same with any other repair, don't get in over your head and really mess things up, just bring it in and let me do my job. it'll cost less in the long run. also,you may have heard this before...

labor is $75.00/hr
if you want to watch it's $95.00
if you want to help it's $125.00
if you "fix" it first, it's $150.00


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## filtersweep (Feb 4, 2004)

curlybike said:


> Frequently the cost of labor for a wheel truing is dependent on the time required. I have worked on many wheels that required more time to get true and dependable, than building a new wheel with new components. I have had to completely disassemble wheels before I could get them to true up. This often happens after a rider tries to true a wheel with no idea what he is doing, and then takes it to the shop. Although I am sure that this does not apply to you.


That's exactly it- if you don't know what you are doing, it is a Rubik's cube. I'll never forget a "friend" who was looking at one of my wheels as it was on my bike- he was fooling around with it and said that a spoke was loose. Before I could do anything, he reached down with a mini spoke wrench and tightened it and gave it a spin. Of course now it was horribly out of true, and I never saw which spoke he tightened... I could have killed him.


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## ringroadwarrior (Dec 8, 2002)

*Shop here...*

Charges $10.00. I totally screwed a MTB wheel and was $10.00. Had a regular set of 32x3cross road wheels trued the other day $10.00. Have a set of campy eurus wheels and a set kyserium elites,which I have never had trued yet,something like that may cost more?I guess I will find out sooner or later. 
However I have come to the conclusion that it is better to pay someone to do something I have never gotten the hang of. I can make a bike shift like butter, but will screw a wheel up just by looking at it!!!!


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## nhl856 (Aug 2, 2003)

Learning to true a wheel takes a lot of time to get right, and even when someone knows what they are doing it takes a lot of time to do depending on the condition of the wheel. So think of how much time..i.e. how many jobs that mechanic could have taken while truing that one wheel, now think of how much money was lost, not to mention time on the wheel. It's a matter of how many jobs the shop can turn over for best customer satisfaction in the shortest amount of time.....in short it is technically not cost efficient to true a wheel unless you do it at a higher cost. Thats from a strictly business standpoint, and my shop charges the same for a wheel true. I think it is very high but if you look at it from my first point it makes sense.


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## Cory (Jan 29, 2004)

*12 bucks last time I had it done, but....*

I generally do minor tweaks on my own, but I'm pretty so-so at it and will take a wheel in if I have problems. Local shops charge around $12 for a simple truing. I've lived here a long time and bought quite a bit of stuff from most of them, though, so it's possible I'm getting a little break. $25 seems high.


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## Fuhgetaboudit (Nov 3, 2004)

*Wheel True at $35.00 .... now I'm pissed!*

I had just bought a set of 2003 Mavic Kysrium SLC S2 Tour de France wheels from Ebay. They looked in great shape but decided to take them down to the LBS for a quick once over anyway. The Tech put them on the machine and they were just slightly out of true. Just barely making a scraping noise on each wheel. I left off two new tires and bought the tubes from the shop and picked them up two days later. No charge for mounting the tires, but $35.00 for trueing out the rims. Now that I see across the board a high price is $25 (San Francisco, etal) and I am in Sacramento! Guess it might be time to consider a new shop! 

Beside, the guy said he put Reynolds Carbon pads in my brakes when I had them worka nd fit up my Reynolds Stratus DV Clinchers and when I just pulled the pads to lount the Kysriums I found the pads to be Kool Stops...... that is just not *COOL*!

Til next time.....


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## Silver222 (Aug 5, 2004)

Fuhgetaboudit said:


> I had just bought a set of 2003 Mavic Kysrium SLC S2 Tour de France wheels from Ebay. They looked in great shape but decided to take them down to the LBS for a quick once over anyway. The Tech put them on the machine and they were just slightly out of true. Just barely making a scraping noise on each wheel. I left off two new tires and bought the tubes from the shop and picked them up two days later. No charge for mounting the tires, but $35.00 for trueing out the rims. Now that I see across the board a high price is $25 (San Francisco, etal) and I am in Sacramento! Guess it might be time to consider a new shop,


You brought in wheels from Ebay and you're surprised he didn't give you a deal on trueing the wheels?


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## Fuhgetaboudit (Nov 3, 2004)

*Wheels are Wheels*

Reply back.....

SURE! If a shopquotes a labor charge for trueing a wheel, what difference does it make where it was purchased from? Perhaps different if I did purchase them from my LBS, but figure the equation... Local shop wants $1,499 for a set of Zipp 303 Clinchers. I purchase same exact wheelset on ebay, very slightly used for only $660 WITH a Campy Cogset. Local Shop wants $1,999.00 for a set of Reynolds DV Clinchers. I buy exact same wheelset for only $1,000.00 on Ebay, basically in mint shape. 

Hey, I am all for supporting my LBS... but sometimes there are vast differences in prices of equipment the little guy cannot compete on so it's okay that he makes it up on high labor? Is that your point?


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## 9-speed (Feb 16, 2004)

Wait, you're comparing NEW wheels from the LBS to USED wheels from e-Bay right? And you're holding the price difference against the LBS?

So are people expecting bike shops to match e-Bay's prices, not just online retailers?


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## Silver222 (Aug 5, 2004)

Do you expect drinks for free at restaurants you've never been to before as well?


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## cxwrench (Nov 9, 2004)

*jeez, no clue, huh?*



Fuhgetaboudit said:


> Reply back.....
> 
> SURE! If a shopquotes a labor charge for trueing a wheel, what difference does it make where it was purchased from? Perhaps different if I did purchase them from my LBS, but figure the equation... Local shop wants $1,499 for a set of Zipp 303 Clinchers. I purchase same exact wheelset on ebay, very slightly used for only $660 WITH a Campy Cogset. Local Shop wants $1,999.00 for a set of Reynolds DV Clinchers. I buy exact same wheelset for only $1,000.00 on Ebay, basically in mint shape.
> 
> Hey, I am all for supporting my LBS... but sometimes there are vast differences in prices of equipment the little guy cannot compete on so it's okay that he makes it up on high labor? Is that your point?


this almost sounds like the infamous ricky2...


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## Hooben (Aug 22, 2004)

My local bike shop here in West Texas is very busy. They true a wheel for six bucks, but I will have to wait for it a few days while my mechanic does his carma. Actually, he is very busy, plus rent is cheap here. Try renting a business space in southern california for 400 dollars a month...impossible.
Support your local bike shop. A good true, is a good true.


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## Fuhgetaboudit (Nov 3, 2004)

*Not sure who you may be talking about....*

I'm not familar with anyone on this board, except for C-40 who seems to be a wealth of knowledge and has assisted me with answers to questions.

First let me say that I am not making any statements that LBS shops should compete with ebay or the internet. My point on pricing wheels and such is one of "VALUE" both real and perceived. I would concede that my examples did not make my point clear as to my LBS charging so much for trueing wheels. The point is.... a labor charge is a labor charge and it should not matter if one purchase wheels direct from Mavic, Campagnolo, Shimano or Reynolds. The customer brought them in for work to be performed and if a price of $25 seems high to most on this board then with my LBS charging me $35, then my shop takes the price gouging trophy! Let's just set the record straight also. Over the past 60 days I have spent over $2,000 at my shop setting up my Pinarello with Compact cranks and a whole slew of other things. No, I am not asking for any price break here since I spend money with the LBS - the point that I am making is the labor charges now seem high!

Second, do I expect free drinks when I go to a new restaurant? You're damn right I do! I expect to get free water just like I get at any other restaurant. Nothing more than that and nothing that anyone else doesn't get. 

I guess I am sort of venting here as I paid my LBS $40 for a set of Reynolds Carbon Brake Pad because that is what is called for with Renolds Stratus wheels. I just pulled those pads because I switched wheels and I find $12 Kool Pads instead. I paid $7.99 for Bontrager tubes and when I replaced a pinch flat I saw low cost Taiwan tubes. During the conversion of Campy Record cranks over to Compact I was quoted a certain price and then when everything came in.... the price was $100 more. Something to do with price increases from Campy. I called two other shops in the city I have dealt with and guess what... there is no price increase!! The offered me that same cranks and such for $100 less, and then other more than that. 

So what does all this mean....? Just that some shops think it is fair to charge more than others. They get away with it for awhile, but at the expense of customer loyalty. I for one like to research and make sure I am getting a honest and fair price. I don't mind the shop making an honest and fair profit. Hec, I have my own company and face the same situation. What erks me is when they charge more than everyone else, mispresent services and do not honor price quotes. All I can do is vote with my checkbook, which I did. I now write checks out to another bike shop a little farther away, but one with a higher ideal of integrity and customer satisafaction. Is it any wonder the shop further away has been in business over 20 years. Now we know why!

til next time......


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## Cory (Jan 29, 2004)

*$12 here, but sometimes free for regular customers*

I'm sort of semi-OK at truing my own, but I had the shop do a couple recently when I hadn't been able to get them to stay straight. They charged 12 bucks for the first one, but did the second free because I'm a pretty regular customer. Neither took more than a couple of minutes. $25 seems high to me, unless you had a real taco problem..


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## Kuma601 (Jan 22, 2004)

Within reason, if you ride in areas with spotty roads, balance that with taking the cost of wheel truing you will accumulate How much do you want to supportt he LBS? After one season of visting my local shop 5-7 times and being charged from $15-$45, I bought a TS-2 stand and Jobst Brandt's book The Bicycle Wheel. (This was in the mid 80's.) 

It took me time and I did mess up my share along the way but I found it a valuable education. Truing my wheels up is a relaxing time for me. YMMV


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## Slip Stream (Jul 19, 2002)

Check out Sheldon Brown: 

http://www.sheldonbrown.com/wheelbuild.html

Wheel truing and building is not rockt science.


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## onrhodes (Feb 19, 2004)

$15-20 bucks around here depends on if it is front or rear and how bad of condition.
However, when I worked in a shop we had the same mentality as auto repair shops. We charged a flat rate based on the typical time it took to do a normal repair. Our going rate was $45 an hour.
We used to charge $24.95 for a spring tune up. That was 30 minutes per bike. We used to get lots of bikes that only took 15 minutes so we could do 4 an hour therefore doubling our hourly sales target. 
Did that mean we should charge less because we took less time? Maybe, but in a business sense no way.
I used to do accounting for a major auto dealer and the techs got paid not by actual hours worked, but by billable hours. So if the job listed as 4 hours in the book and the could do it in 2, the would get paid for 4 hours work. We had a number of guys we could "work" (and get paid for) 80-100 hour weeks because of this system. When the actually worked 40-50 real hours.
My point here, many LBS are doing to something along the same lines for repair. If it takes an hour to do something on average, then expect to pay for an hours worth of work regardless if it took them 20 minutes or 2 hours.


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## Indyfan (Mar 30, 2004)

*In some cases...*

A labor charge is not a labor charge. We have team riders and regular customers (defined as people who come in regularly, support us, send new customers to us, as much as spend $$ regularly) that get all sorts of better deals than the people we see 2X each year. While we have our share of doctors, lawyers, etc as regular customers (who regularly spend some fair amounts of cash), we also recognize that we have customers who spend a higher percentage of disposable income (because they don't make as much) that we give good deals to as well. It may seem like shops play favorites. But in reality it's no different than when a supplier gives another business a discount or a rebate because they have bought a specific quantity of product from them. It's just good business to take care of your best customers.

As for how we determine the charge for a wheel true - shop rate is $40/hour. If it takes us 15 minutes to true your wheel, that's $10. If it takes us half an hour just to undo what was done incorrectly, the cost has already gone up quickly. Some wheels just take longer by design, Shimano 540's come to mind, with their spokes that cross over to the opposite side of the rim from the hub flange. You have to think backwards from normal truing procedure with those. Not to mention that the nipples are harder to get to. Many times it is cheaper (as far as the labor alone is concerned) to rebuild your wheel. If you can true it properly yourself, you can save some $$. How long does it take you to do it at home though? Are you going to true it (laterally and radially) to within .5mm or better, and make sure the tensions are balance and high enough to hold that true? Apply the local shop rate to your home truing and you might realize that having somebody that does it regularly enough to get it done properly, quickly and without you having to take the time to do it yourself probably isn't that bad.

We charge $29.95 labor to build wheels. So, if you bring us a 32H hub to build 3X to an Open Pro rim, you're looking at about $120 for your new wheel. Obviously more $$, but you'd get a new, handbuilt wheel, properly tensioned, ready to ride.

Bob


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## CHT (Mar 1, 2001)

My preferred shop charges $10.00 per wheel, unless it is a major project. Some other shops which are closer charge $20.00 per wheel, and never get the tension even so the wheels go out of true very quickly.

I don't want to get into the whole LBS/internet debate, but I always make sure that my relationship with my LBS is good, which necessitates building a relationship. Absent a crash, on average I have my wheels touched up (several pairs) about 2x per year. The $10.00 per wheel is a modest investment in my LBS, and the dividends have been great. I'm one of "those guys" who stop in to chit chat and buy small items, and often come in with friends looking to buy an entry level bike or something more. I also do the majority of my repairs at home. While it's no big deal, I also take of the tires and rim strips (and cassette if it's necessary) to save them the time. All of it is appreciated, and I get my wheels back in a short time...even if there is a backlog. When I crashed my bike and needed it back quickly, they took it right in and fixed everything within a few hours of bringing it in (sympathy for the guy covered in road rash).


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