# Dura Ace WH-7801 Carbon 50 Wheelset



## ECXkid04

Anybody know anything about these new wheels by Shimano? I know that they've been used by a multitude of riders on Pro Tour teams but was wondering if anybody else had first had experience with them. I'm going to be purchasing a set of deep section carbon tubulars for next year's racing season and have been considering these, a comperable pair of Reynolds, or maybe even something by Cane Creek. Thanks for any input!

Jon


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## Bradford Kilcline

I have a set. They are, hands down, the smoothest rolling and strongest wheels I have ridden. You will not be disappointed. Sprinting is remarkably stiff.


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## android

The only thing I would add is it might be better to look at the new wheels based on the 7850 rear hub. It has a Ti cassette body again and is compatible with any 9 or 10 speed cassette from most manufacturers.


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## vboy19

Anyone have pictures?


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## encomium

i had the 7801SL Scandium wheels and they were very very good...excellent for climbing, super smooth bearings and really flawless unless u needed a campy freehub (which i did)....

The new 7850 series looks even better and IMO one of the best looking wheelsets around


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## 3 Pin

I have a set and I love them. https://i141.photobucket.com/albums/r52/nmtoy/slc-sl002.jpg

Robb


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## cavinsoo

Just wondering if you have tested Zipp 404 tubular wheelset? I demoed a set for 3 days and they are unbelievable. It came with Vittoria Corsa Evo KS tubulars. 

The set without tires are only 1.2kg. Very light compared to most wheelsets out there. If you travel to Asia (Tokyo, Osaka, Singapore, Hong Kong), you can buy them for USD2000 pair. I was considering to get Mavic Cosmic Carbone Ultimate in Tokyo for USD2600 but now I have to rethink. Maybe Zipp 404 is faster than Mavic CCU. I'm in Melbourne, Australia fyi.

Do you know that Zipp is the most aero wheelset out there? They have dimples and it's patented. Only Zipp can produce wheels with dimples. It's like golf ball technology. Without dimples, golf balls won't travel that far.

Unfortunately Zipp 404 doesn't suit my bike. It's very ugly, I mean.

I haven't ridden Dura Ace wheelset before. So I don't know if they are stiffer or smoother than Zipp.

Check zipp website and see if there is any store near your city that does it.

Sorry I'm not saying that Dura Ace is not good. But you got to try Zipp 404 wheelset. You can demo them for an official Zipp dealer store. No harm trying. It may be better than Dura Ace, who knows.


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## Rubber Lizard

cavinsoo said:


> Just wondering if you have tested Zipp 404 tubular wheelset? I demoed a set for 3 days and they are unbelievable. It came with Vittoria Corsa Evo KS tubulars.
> 
> The set without tires are only 1.2kg. Very light compared to most wheelsets out there. If you travel to Asia (Tokyo, Osaka, Singapore, Hong Kong), you can buy them for USD2000 pair. I was considering to get Mavic Cosmic Carbone Ultimate in Tokyo for USD2600 but now I have to rethink. Maybe Zipp 404 is faster than Mavic CCU. I'm in Melbourne, Australia fyi.
> 
> Do you know that Zipp is the most aero wheelset out there? They have dimples and it's patented. Only Zipp can produce wheels with dimples. It's like golf ball technology. Without dimples, golf balls won't travel that far.
> 
> Unfortunately Zipp 404 doesn't suit my bike. It's very ugly, I mean.
> 
> I haven't ridden Dura Ace wheelset before. So I don't know if they are stiffer or smoother than Zipp.
> 
> Check zipp website and see if there is any store near your city that does it.
> 
> Sorry I'm not saying that Dura Ace is not good. But you got to try Zipp 404 wheelset. You can demo them for an official Zipp dealer store. No harm trying. It may be better than Dura Ace, who knows.


Wow....are you on Zipp's payroll? If not you need to tone the schill attitude way down, nobody likes a schill. 
Dimples are not necessary in creating an aerodynamic wheel, the lenticular shape of the rim plays a far bigger part in the aerodynamics than the dimples. The dimples are marketing baloney, the advantage they provide is very small. But marketing has done a good job because people like you actually believe everything that Zipp says. Zipps are good wheels, very light and aerodynamic , no doubt about that, but they also have reputation for being fragile and having junky hubs. 
Since this thread is about the Shimano wheel, I'll talk about that. The Shimano wheels I've ridden, the first generation 7801 non deep section were amazing. They had an oddly solid, stable feel to them, like my 36 spoke touring wheels- but they got up to speed really fast. I wouldn't hesitate to purchase Shimano wheels, although get the newer ones with the 9 speed freehub body. The 10 speed only freehub was a nice brain fart on Shimanos part.


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## maxima

I've both Mavic Ultimates and 2 set of past 2 generation 404s and 303. for last couple of years. The Mavix is with me for 5 mths, all I can say, in terms of reliability of Hub design/Bearings - The Mavic beats Zipps hands down. The Zipp tend to need tuning after a few months of hard riding, the worst is 303 as for 404, it can take the hit better, but after a few rounds of tuning, the spokes tend to wrap or a point tuning is a pain impossible to 100% straighten the wheel. Bearing and Hub coming loose issues is frequent. The customer service for Zipp wheels in Asia is "Crap ****", so basically it's use and throw after 2 years of racing.

I go with the Mavic, NO customer service just like Zipp.......I guess i Asia, no major brands brother with service and warranty. But so far, been thru Krysium ES, Mavic Ultimate and I'm impress with the durability.

I wait 170lbs and is a careful rider ...........hope this helps.

If you can get a good deal with Zipp and only use it for racing- probably less than 20 times a year? Go with it. If you have more $ to burnt, the Mavic is a level above Zipp in perfromance, especially the rigid fix carbon spoke. U can feel the difference when U sprint and out of saddle. With my weight, I can feel the 303 bend and rub the brake pads, even with spoke tension tigthen to the max! 404 is better but not as rigid as Mavic Ultimate which is near or as good as "Lightweight" wheels.

Only downside, it cannot be repair ! But if you crash.........get an issurance coverage!:thumbsup: 





cavinsoo said:


> Just wondering if you have tested Zipp 404 tubular wheelset? I demoed a set for 3 days and they are unbelievable. It came with Vittoria Corsa Evo KS tubulars.
> 
> The set without tires are only 1.2kg. Very light compared to most wheelsets out there. If you travel to Asia (Tokyo, Osaka, Singapore, Hong Kong), you can buy them for USD2000 pair. I was considering to get Mavic Cosmic Carbone Ultimate in Tokyo for USD2600 but now I have to rethink. Maybe Zipp 404 is faster than Mavic CCU. I'm in Melbourne, Australia fyi.
> 
> Do you know that Zipp is the most aero wheelset out there? They have dimples and it's patented. Only Zipp can produce wheels with dimples. It's like golf ball technology. Without dimples, golf balls won't travel that far.
> 
> Unfortunately Zipp 404 doesn't suit my bike. It's very ugly, I mean.
> 
> I haven't ridden Dura Ace wheelset before. So I don't know if they are stiffer or smoother than Zipp.
> 
> Check zipp website and see if there is any store near your city that does it.
> 
> Sorry I'm not saying that Dura Ace is not good. But you got to try Zipp 404 wheelset. You can demo them for an official Zipp dealer store. No harm trying. It may be better than Dura Ace, who knows.


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## gambo2166

Mavic rear hubs SUCK. Im sorry but its just the fact. If you ride them too much you will ware the hub shell out and have to send it back and pay 250 bucks to re lace a new hub onto the rim. We have had to do this for about 6 customers this year. Having no bearing on the inside of the freehub body only a teflon bushing the runs on the alloy hub shell not good. We seen it happen on one 100 mile rain ride. Mavic said the thay are race only wheels and not covered under warranty.


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## haydos

Here's my 20c...

IMO Shimano make a better factory wheel than Zipp. If they were my only 2 choices i'd buy the fishing tackle and be done with it. The only negative is the weight - they can be a bit porky - but if you are going to use as a race wheel in crits and flatter stage races they are very good. Another good factory built wheel at a good price is the Easton EC90 Aero's. Can be found on ebay quite cheap. Excellent Hubs, Good rims.

Another factory option are the Fulcrum Racing Speeds - basically the same as a Bora. Great wheel at a reasonable price

I'd also try looking at Edge 1.68 or 2.68 rims built up with DT240's or 190's and DT aerolites/Sapim CX Rays
Better Hubs again - Is there a better race hub than a DT?? ( I don't think so myself...) - No weight limits on the rims, You can choose the spokecount / lacing pattern etc. They will work out lighter, IMO (hubs) sound better, any shop can replace spokes and repair hubs. You could build up with Ligero Hubs, White Industries, Tune etc etc...

If money was no object you'd have consider Lightweights just for bling.

In terms of riding em - this is my experience (and info from mates who have ridden em - If i havn't)

Lightweights - great for bunch riding, hills, sprints etc - not particularly aero - very ordinary in cross winds, Not a comfortable Carbon wheel (very stiff vertically and laterally) Bling!!

Zipp 303 - not bad if you are light and are easy on wheels - a bit flexy though when cranked - not aero in the class of a 50mm deep rim

Zipp 404 - more aero - hubs not great - (although significantly changed for 09) - still flexy - biggest incentive was they used to be at a decent price so student racers could afford them - not really the case now...

Bora's / Racing Speeds - Excellent race wheel - not the lightest but great hubs, stiff rims. A good choice.

Edge Handbuilts - What i'm on now. I'm a big fan with a capital BIG! Stiff - Lightest set (aside from LW's) easily serviceable. Sound like Lightweights when riding em. Cross winds don't really affect em (for a 60mm deep rim)

Shimano deeps - Nice solid race wheel - not flashy, like most shimano, just well engineered and good quality. Good Loose ball hubs. Decent Rims (tubular)

EC90's as per Shimano (but out there Logo's), Smooth Velomax hubs.

Mavic (asstd) - Rubbish hubs, especially if you ride in the rain... Wouldn't touch.

Reynolds and Cane Creek have not ridden em, although a few of the guys who own Edge used to work for Reynolds... The good reynolds wheels use DT hubs. Seem a good choice also.

Anyway good luck - but i'd steer clear of Zipp and Mavic.


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## vincejebsen

more pictures please?


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