# 11 speed bottom bracket?



## ishmaelmuscat (Oct 30, 2008)

I am thinking of buying Chorus 09 11 speed setup. Do you know if it needs a specific 11 speed bottom bracket?

Any detailed advice would be appreciated.

Would a Chorus BB need a special tool to install?


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## BikeProf (May 9, 2006)

Unlike the other outboard bearing BBs, the Ultra Torque bearings are fitted to the spindles attached to the crankarms. These fit into outboard BB cups. In other systems (like Shimano, FSA, and SRAM), the bearings are fitted into the BB cups. 

You can use the Park BBT-9 (go here to see it: http://www.parktool.com/products/detail.asp?cat=25&item=BBT-9). There has been a lot of talk, though, about proper installation. At first Campy recommended a torque setting for the cups, but in later tech info said that you should use Locktite and hand-tighten them.

From what I have heard, the 11 speed BB cups are the same as the 10 speed.


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## Guest (Oct 30, 2008)

The design of the cups is the same. I haven't tried running 11 speed cranks on the older cups yet but do have a 10 speed crank on the new cups.

One significant difference is the new cups are hard anodized which is supposed to provide more protection from corrosion, which is why I have replaced all of mine with the newer models. The Record version is more gray than silver now and the Super Record cups are a dark pewter that I really liked the looks of when I put some on a frame with a black bottom bracket area.

My older cups were starting to show corrosion so I consider it a worthy upgrade. I have had good success in the past with the hand tighten/loctite method, and others have had good luck with greasing the threads and torquing to spec which I am trying now to compare, but you would need BBT-19 to do that, you can install/extract the cups with BBT-9 but you wouldn't be able to torque the cups to the spec with BBT-9. Campy also makes almost identical tools to both of those mentioned.


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## C-40 (Feb 4, 2004)

*info...*

The tool needed to use with a torque wrench has been covered. Be sure to have the BB faced, or at least remove the paint from the faces and check the squareness, as I have described in other threads below. Also carefully measure the BB shell width so insure it is within the 67.2- 68.8mm range. I would grease the threads and torque to the specified amount, not use loctite.

There have been no dimensional changes to the cups, so 10 or 11 speed cups will work.


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## campagnoloneutron (Sep 15, 2005)

Maybe this is a statement of the obvoius but I did not see it covered above. From the initial question it seems like it probably should be stated. One piece of info you do need to know in order to obtain the correct part is whether the bottom bracket is threaded as Italian ITA 36x24) or English (ENG 1.370x24). The UT cups for the crankset will need to match the frame BB threading.

The UT cups for the Chorus crankset and the Record crankset are one and the same, the one available is the Record model. ...and the Record 2009 version does have a more gray color than the older Record 2008 model. Try to get the improved Record 2009 version if you can. The Super Record UT cups are a dark black-grey due to their special heat treatment/protective coating.


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## canelupo (Feb 25, 2005)

Thanks for this discussion thread.

I am about to install a Record UT crank with some Super Record cups (they are really beautiful, aren't they) for a cyclocross application. I have the Campy BB130 tool available, so what is the torque value referenced in this thread? Recognizing that BB installations have some unique features that warrant not slavishly adhering to a torque value. Is it comparable to the spec for a pre-UT BB (70nm) or is it somewhat less, as I would expect from inspection of the number of threads on the UT cups as compared to an old school BB?


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## canelupo (Feb 25, 2005)

Found the answer in the Campy UT 11 speed crankset instructions, but with lots of caveats about when this method should be followed. 

35 Nm, so roughly half the value as for an old school BB. Since the UT BB cups have about half the number of threads as an old school Record, that seems about right.


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## ishmaelmuscat (Oct 30, 2008)

*so, normal BB will do?*



BikeProf said:


> Unlike the other outboard bearing BBs, the Ultra Torque bearings are fitted to the spindles attached to the crankarms. These fit into outboard BB cups. In other systems (like Shimano, FSA, and SRAM), the bearings are fitted into the BB cups.
> 
> You can use the Park BBT-9 (go here to see it: http://www.parktool.com/products/detail.asp?cat=25&item=BBT-9). There has been a lot of talk, though, about proper installation. At first Campy recommended a torque setting for the cups, but in later tech info said that you should use Locktite and hand-tighten them.
> 
> From what I have heard, the 11 speed BB cups are the same as the 10 speed.


So a normal 102mmBB will do and then place it into the 11speed cups?

Honestly, I've never installed a BB before..so i want to be sure i buy the right product.


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## C-40 (Feb 4, 2004)

*info...*

Previous BBs required 50Nm, not 70. The number of threads also has nothing to do with prescribed torques. After about 4 turns, you get all the strength you're going to. Having 10 or 20 turns does not increase the torque capacity of the threaded joint.


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## amicus (Mar 2, 2007)

C-40 said:


> T Be sure to grease the threads and torque to the specified amount, not use loctite.


As a former wrench, I've done a lot of builds and I respect your expertise but I'm somewhat confused about the grease/loctite discussion. I just ordered a Centaur compact crank which specifically states that one should use loctite 222 on the cup threads and hand tighten.

As a matter of interest, how did you decide on grease rather than the suggested loctite?

I'd appreciate your input


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## C-40 (Feb 4, 2004)

*instructions...*

Campy may have changed their instructions at some point, but the instructions that came with my 2008 crank list the loctite method as an alternative, "but at the expense of a reduced life expectancy and reduced stiffness in the BB assembly" to quote Campy.

The preferred method on my instructions is to face the BB, grease the threads and torque the cups to 35Nm.

Their instructions for the use of loctite are also not very good. If you follow what is written, cleaning the BB shell threads is fine, but then screwing both cups in with the factory applied thread locker just mucks up those clean threads. The factory applied thread locker on the cup threads needs to be removed if loctite is being used. 

Here's a link to what should be the latest instructions, but it still makes little sense. With the factory applied thread locker on the cup threads, you can't "hand tighten" the cups. Mine required 10-15 ft-lbs with a torque wrench just due to the interference caused by the thread locker. This material should be removed if loctite is used. Even then, I would never just hand tighten. Use a spline tool and at least apply 5Nm of torque to be sure the cups are in good contact with the BB shell faces. I hate to think how many people left a small gap, allowing the cups to wiggle around and cause problems.

http://www.campagnolo.com/repository/documenti/en/7225446-Ultra-torque_crankset_11s.pdf

If the BB faces are free of paint and square to the threads and the BB shell is 67.2-68.8mm wide, you should be able to just grease the threads and torque the cups to 35Nm and have no problems. There is also no 24-48 hour waiting period for the loctite to cure.


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## Guest (Oct 31, 2008)

> So a normal 102mmBB will do and then place it into the 11speed cups?


No, you are taking parts from two different types of cranks and bottom brackets there.

The 102mm referred to the previous or older model square taper bottom brackets, specifically the spindle length, that system is not going to work with the UT cranks. If you have UT cranks you won't have any use on that bike for a 102mm square taper bottom bracket. 

If you have Campy UT cranks and the UT cups (which would include the Super Record model cups you mentioned) then you should have the parts you need.


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## canelupo (Feb 25, 2005)

I'm looking at a the campy installation instruction booklet for a record cartridge BB (this year's model) and it indicates 70nM (51.63 lbFt). In six languages no less. Perhaps 50 lbft is what you remember, or is the spec for older stuff?

As for the physics, 35 is less than 70, and that's pretty much what I need to know at this point.


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## C-40 (Feb 4, 2004)

*you're right...*

I was working from memory and probably had 50 ft-lbs in mind. 70Nm is a lot of torque, but it's not related to the longer thread engagement. Every cartridge BB I've got has about the same 10-12mm of threads that the UT cups have.


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## ishmaelmuscat (Oct 30, 2008)

*Please clarify*



kytyree said:


> No, you are taking parts from two different types of cranks and bottom brackets there.
> 
> The 102mm referred to the previous or older model square taper bottom brackets, specifically the spindle length, that system is not going to work with the UT cranks. If you have UT cranks you won't have any use on that bike for a 102mm square taper bottom bracket.
> 
> If you have Campy UT cranks and the UT cups (which would include the Super Record model cups you mentioned) then you should have the parts you need.


I own 2000 Record and 2003 Centaur on my bikes. I'm a little confused, probably due to some innovations. Please correct me if I am wrong: The 11 speed groupset does not need to make use of the traditional bottom bracket anymore? The cups are enough to support the crankset? (Similar to Shimano's Hollowtech)


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## C-40 (Feb 4, 2004)

*read!*

Instead of asking all these questions, why not go to the source, www.campagnolo.com and read some of the installation instructions under tech info? You'll learn a whole lot more a lot faster.

Campy changed to a totally different crank design with outboard bearings back in 2007. This is the third year of production. The cranks are similar to Shimano and FSA, but instead of a one-piece spindle, it's made in two pieces, with a Hirth joint in the middle. Properly tightening the center fixing bolt is critical. It's all in the instructions.


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## SubRider (Aug 19, 2012)

I'm with C-40--read the instructions. (That's the Tech Writer in me.)
I'm also with others that 35Nm seems sensible.
-
HOWEVER, the instructions say to hand-tighten!
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So where do you stand?
(A forum poll is great for this kind of stuff--how many experts yeah vs. how many experts nay.)


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## SubRider (Aug 19, 2012)

So which of the following amalgamations do you think is the right blend of local expert opinions with Campy expert instructions?

a) Don't clean factory cup threads / hand-tighten 
b) Don't clean factory cups / 35Nm
c) Clean and grease the cups / hand-tighten
d) Clean and grease / 35Nm
e) Clean and loctite / hand-tighten
f) Clean and loctite / 35Nm
g) Something else


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## C-40 (Feb 4, 2004)

Not cleaning the threads and hand tightening is a recipe for disaster. You can only have one kind of thread lcoker on the threads at one time and you can't hand tighten if the factory thread locker is on the threads. I've seen it take 15Nm of torque, just due to the interference caused by the factory thread locker.

The correct answer is to either have the BB faced, or at least check that the BB faces are square to the threads, by screwing the cups in until they contact a .010 inch feeler, then use .008 and .012 inch feelers to check for high or low spots. If no area exceeds these limits, then just grease the threads and torque to 35Nm.

Loctite and hand tighten is never the the proper approach.


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