# 09 PRINCE FIRE - Red / Red



## rhauft (Aug 8, 2006)

Landed on my doorstep Monday morning. Good things come from Treviso via North Carolina via China  
Interestingly, I came down with a 48hr virus which gave me just enough time to put it together :ihih: 
Hope I don't offend any traditionalists out there but this bike is Red and so is the groupo  
















































end of a hard days work :thumbsup:


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## rhauft (Aug 8, 2006)

*Rolling Red*

























Decisions, decisions...? 








:thumbsup:


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## proy (Sep 7, 2004)

Beautiful bike (s). Congratulations.:thumbsup:


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## the genie (May 10, 2008)

Very, very beautiful. I hope you do give us a detailed comparison report between the two, after you've put some significant miles on the new one.


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## T-Dog (Mar 21, 2008)

Nice but wrong coloured seat pillar and the sin of using Sram. Red MOst handlebars will finsish it off nicely. Well done though its beautiful!


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## sbthaut (Apr 17, 2007)

Wow... Gorgeous, absolutely gorgeous!!! Thanks for letting us take part in the experience, I am totally eating my heart out! And I would have totally gone with SRAM Red too!!!


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## rhauft (Aug 8, 2006)

T-Dog said:


> Nice but wrong coloured seat pillar and the sin of using Sram. Red MOst handlebars will finsish it off nicely. Well done though its beautiful!


I think they matched the seatpost to the white on the headtube/toptube. I'm debating swapping posts with the 08. Also debating seat colors. I'd considered white but this is my daily driver and the white does not hold up well with daily abuse. I'm surprised you didn't mention that, Mr Pinarello Fashion Police.  Maybe red or maybe just leave the black? As for the MOst bars, I've got a set... for sale. They just don't work for me. I use what works on my race bikes... That's why I put *RED* on this bike!  
Thanks for the fashion critique T-Dog. Hope you can live with *MY* SRAM on *MY* Prince. :thumbsup:

BTW, I'm sponsored by SRAM...


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## rhauft (Aug 8, 2006)

sbthaut said:


> Wow... Gorgeous, absolutely gorgeous!!! Thanks for letting us take part in the experience, I am totally eating my heart out! And I would have totally gone with SRAM Red too!!!


Thanks sbthaut, 
I really enjoyed building this bike myself. I'm still dialing it in and I appreciate all comments (pro & con). 
Here's a great youtube showing finishing work at the Treviso shop:


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## T-Dog (Mar 21, 2008)

rhauft said:


> I think they matched the seatpost to the white on the headtube/toptube. I'm debating swapping posts with the 08. Also debating seat colors. I'd considered white but this is my daily driver and the white does not hold up well with daily abuse. I'm surprised you didn't mention that, Mr Pinarello Fashion Police.  Maybe red or maybe just leave the black? As for the MOst bars, I've got a set... for sale. They just don't work for me. I use what works on my race bikes... That's why I put *RED* on this bike!
> Thanks for the fashion critique T-Dog. Hope you can live with *MY* SRAM on *MY* Prince. :thumbsup:
> 
> BTW, I'm sponsored by SRAM...


White seat and white bar tape is the way to go.

Congratulations on being sponsored by Sram. I'm suprised you have Bora wheels on it then. Even if I were good enough to be sponsored by Sram I would still use Campag and just put a Sram sticker over the top  

You know why? Because Campag is better!


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## cycleboyco (Oct 6, 2007)

*Weight*

Where did the weight come in at - I assume it's a touch lighter than your 08 because of the SRAM. I like the seatpost color - goes well with the headtube and the other white. If you keep the post, isn't there a MOST white stem, or do you like the black one?

Have fun-are you keeping both Princes and still racing Orbeas?


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## rhauft (Aug 8, 2006)

T-Dog said:


> White seat and white bar tape is the way to go.
> 
> You know why? Because Campag is *MORE EXPENSIVE*!


Fixed it for you  

You can have all the white bar tape Dog. As I've stated in previous posts, I'm over it. I like to ride my bikes more than I like cleaning and replacing bar tape. Just not practical for my needs. Same with white saddles. IMHO of course. Glad to see you haven't lost your flair for criticism  Anyway, wouldn't life be rather boring if we all rode bikes that looked exactly like yours?


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## rhauft (Aug 8, 2006)

cycleboyco said:


> Where did the weight come in at - I assume it's a touch lighter than your 08 because of the SRAM. I like the seatpost color - goes well with the headtube and the other white. If you keep the post, isn't there a MOST white stem, or do you like the black one?
> Have fun-are you keeping both Princes and still racing Orbeas?


Thanks cycleboyco 
I'm trying to find a white MOst stem. Not an easy get without a whole bike attached...
No longer sponsored by Orbea. The 09 Prince is my race bike. 
Both bikes are 56cm with same bars, post, stem, peddles, 2 cages.

08 Prince / Record10 / Bora Ultras = 15.00lb.

09 Prince / Sram Red / Bora Ultras = 14.74lb.


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## Thom_y (Jan 19, 2007)

the genie said:


> Very, very beautiful. I hope you do give us a detailed comparison report between the two, after you've put some significant miles on the new one.


that is FUNNY.


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## vtecrparts (May 23, 2008)

rhauft said:


> I think they matched the seatpost to the white on the headtube/toptube. I'm debating swapping posts with the 08. Also debating seat colors. I'd considered white but this is my daily driver and the white does not hold up well with daily abuse. I'm surprised you didn't mention that, Mr Pinarello Fashion Police.  Maybe red or maybe just leave the black? *As for the MOst bars, I've got a set... for sale.* They just don't work for me. I use what works on my race bikes... That's why I put *RED* on this bike!
> Thanks for the fashion critique T-Dog. Hope you can live with *MY* SRAM on *MY* Prince. :thumbsup:
> 
> BTW, I'm sponsored by SRAM...


Which MOst bars do you have for sale? And what size?


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## nicensleazy (Aug 3, 2008)

Lovely pics! I always thought the Prince was made in Italy ??


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## rhauft (Aug 8, 2006)

vtecrparts said:


> Which MOst bars do you have for sale? And what size?


I believe they are the 1K MOst Talon. I'm going to hold on to them in case I sell the team bike.


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## rhauft (Aug 8, 2006)

nicensleazy said:


> Lovely pics! I always thought the Prince was made in Italy ??


Sorry sleazy, All carbon Pina's are laid up in China with Japanese carbon, then shipped back to Treviso for finish work and paint.


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## geomoney (Oct 9, 2005)

Beautiful bike, disregard the fashion police comments. Fit the bike with what works for you....

I laugh when "fellow" bikers comment on my fitting Shimano to my Pinarello......I just ride away from them, and see if they can keep up.


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## T-Dog (Mar 21, 2008)

geomoney said:


> Beautiful bike, disregard the fashion police comments. Fit the bike with what works for you....
> 
> I laugh when "fellow" bikers comment on my fitting Shimano to my Pinarello......I just ride away from them, and see if they can keep up.


ShimaNO??? Don't they make fishing rods?


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## geomoney (Oct 9, 2005)

I don't know, does Shimano make fishing rods? I haven't gone fishing since I was around 10 years old

I do know that Shimano manufactures high quality and perfoming bicycle components that cost substantially less than components made by other manufacturers. 

Your debate holds water for any fashionistas who snub riders for the reasons mentioned above. Go back to weighing your stem cap bolt..........


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## T-Dog (Mar 21, 2008)

geomoney said:


> I don't know, does Shimano make fishing rods? I haven't gone fishing since I was around 10 years old
> 
> I do know that Shimano manufactures high quality and perfoming bicycle components that cost substantially less than components made by other manufacturers.
> 
> Your debate holds water for any fashionistas who snub riders for the reasons mentioned above. Go back to weighing your stem cap bolt..........


High quality, highly unlikely. 

ShimaNO is not a scratch on Campag. I have ridden both so I am making a educated assesment. While ShimaNO wears out Campag wears in. That is such a true statement.

A lot of my freinds ride ShimaNO and I am always there to help them when there groupset fails.

Quality is long rememered after price is forgotten. 

:thumbsup:


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## rhauft (Aug 8, 2006)

*Capo del Capo*



T-Dog said:


> Quality is long rememered after price is forgotten.


This is the only statement that I agree with you on... The rest is pure BS.

I've been racing bikes for 30+ years and have used Record, D/A & now Red.
Top of the line is top of the line. None of them will win the race for you. Nor will any lose a race for you either.
If you really want to impress your peers, win on a Schwinn


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## Argentius (Aug 26, 2004)

*Are people still*



T-Dog said:


> High quality, highly unlikely.
> 
> ShimaNO is not a scratch on Campag. I have ridden both so I am making a educated assesment. While ShimaNO wears out Campag wears in. That is such a true statement.
> 
> ...


Going on that shimano "NO" thing? I thought that was over in like, 1987.

OP, BTW -- I hate you. Meaning, those are some sick rides.


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## rhauft (Aug 8, 2006)

*Upgrades!*

New bits for the Pina.
Caved on the white SLR saddle.
Fulcrum Racing Torq RRS crankset - details 
Most Tigerlite 1K carbon stem (white)
Red hoods (because they're faster)








































































:thumbsup:


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## Ride-Fly (Mar 27, 2002)

*BEAUTIFUL!! Both of them. Question on your Boras*

the '09 has g3 spoking on the rear and the '08 doesn't. when did campy change that?
how do you like the sram shifting? i tried it but wasn't immediately taken to it. irc, you can only shift one gear at a time, correct?


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## rhauft (Aug 8, 2006)

Ride-Fly said:


> the '09 has g3 spoking on the rear and the '08 doesn't. when did campy change that?
> how do you like the sram shifting? i tried it but wasn't immediately taken to it. irc, you can only shift one gear at a time, correct?


Thanks for the compliments Ride-Fly,

Sram shifting: I've been racing & training on Sram Red for over a year now and I really have learned to love it. 
I don't want this to turn into another groupo debate. Trying a completely different shifting system on a test drive will not do it justice. 

I'm an Italian American (Lombardi) who's got relatives who work for Campy in Milan. I'm a long time Campy guy. 
I will always ride Campy *- ALWAYS -*
Having said that IMHO the SRAM zero loss shifting system is the most precise system I've ever used. No, you can't dump the cassette. But you can rapid fire shift just as fast. You can also jump up the cassette up to 4 cogs with one stroke. 

I have 08 Record on my 08 Prince and I also have 08 Chorus on my rain bike. They are outstanding groupos and aesthetically beautiful. And so is Sram Red IMHO. YMMV

My team is sponsored by Sram and the 09 Prince is my race bike for this season so I am a Red rider this year again.

The 08 Bora Ultra & 09 Bora Ultra 2 incorporate the G3 spoke system.
I own 1 set of Bora Ultras. The other is actually a set of Edge Composite carbon clinchers that I re-badged with Bora stickers.


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## Ride-Fly (Mar 27, 2002)

rhauft said:


> The other is actually a set of Edge Composite carbon clinchers that I re-badged with Bora stickers.


You cheater! 

Totally fooled me. How do you like the Edge carbon clinchers? I've been on the lookout for a set of '09 Reynolds UL carbon clinchers. 32 or 46 depth. Maybe I should look into the Edge builds. Who did them for you and how much did it cost if you don't mind me asking? Thanks. Again, beautiful bikes and they just looking smokin' fast!!!


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## rhauft (Aug 8, 2006)

Ride-Fly said:


> You cheater!
> 
> Totally fooled me. How do you like the Edge carbon clinchers? I've been on the lookout for a set of '09 Reynolds UL carbon clinchers. 32 or 46 depth. Maybe I should look into the Edge builds. Who did them for you and how much did it cost if you don't mind me asking? Thanks. Again, beautiful bikes and they just looking smokin' fast!!!


I built the Edge Comp wheels myself. I build, break, fix & maintain all my bikes.
I've also got a set of Reynolds DV46C mounted on my TT bike. I built the Edge Comp wheelset up myself with DT Swiss 240 hubs + DT Swiss aero bladed spokes. Those Edge hoops are the bomb! Easiest build I've ever done. Even tension all around, very sweet wheelset and light too. 1300 grams for a deap section carbon clincher is not an easy trick.
The Reynolds DV46C is a good wheelset too but no where near the quality of Edge and is 200 grams heavier with the same cross section. They are also cheaper though.
Feel free to PM me for more info on cost etc.


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## rhauft (Aug 8, 2006)

*ride comparison*



the genie said:


> Very, very beautiful. I hope you do give us a detailed comparison report between the two, after you've put some significant miles on the new one.


Short answer: the new bike hauls a$$... and so does the older one.

Both the 08 Ltd & the 09 Fire are 56cm
Both bikes were built up by myself, using Phil Wood Waterproof Grease
What they share in common:
44cm Easton EC90 Aero bars
Selle Italia SLR Kit Carbonio Flow saddles
175mm crank arms
120mm Most 1K carbon stems
Speedplay X1 peddles
Bora Ultra tubulars or Edge Composite clinchers
Swiss Stop Flash yellow brake pads

The framesets are virtually identical except for one detail; the 08 Prince has all carbon dropouts & derailleur hanger for uncompromising performance and weight savings. The 09 Prince is spec-ed with a replaceable alloy rear derailleur hanger. The weight increase is negligible.

As noted, the biggest difference between the two bikes is the groups. The 08 Ltd is equipped with Record 10 and Campy cables & housings. The 09 Fire is built up with (gasp) Sram Red with the addition of the Fulcrum Racing RRS crankset. I used Gore Ride-On sealed low friction cables & housings. 

I took the 09 out yesterday on its 1st major test ride. A 100 mile local club ride known as HOP - The infamous "House of Pain". It is a very fast club ride with rolling, flat and a few grades toward the back half. It is a big ride, usually 50+ to 100+ from all the local pro/am teams. Yesterday was about 60+, windy and very fast. It was a perfect 1st test for the new Fire.
The bike performed flawlessly with no issues what so ever. The Sram 'zero loss' shifting system is just spot on perfect and the Gore cables are a perfect compliment. After a 100 mile "race sim" the bike needed no adjustments afterward. I simply wiped it down, cleaned the drive-train with WD40, re-lubed and hung her back up. I couldn't be more satisfied with my birthday present to myself. Lastly, just like the 08 Ltd, the 09 Fire had the highest "gawk factor" in the group with numerous "holly canoli!" and other more colorful adjectives. :thumbsup: 
08 all carbon drop-out & hanger








09 alloy hanger
























.


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## cpark (Oct 13, 2004)

How do you keep the saddles so white? What is your secret?
I have a white SLR on my Time Proteam and it's no longer white.
Btw, they are sick looking rides....


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## rhauft (Aug 8, 2006)

cpark said:


> How do you keep the saddles so white? What is your secret?
> I have a white SLR on my Time Proteam and it's no longer white.
> Btw, they are sick looking rides....


Sore subject cpark... Total PITA
Scrub clean with simple green then try some shoe white on the worn edges.
IMHO white saddles are just ridiculous & totally impractical.
Yet here I am with two Princes with white SLRs??? They look great on the bike but they're just not practical for day to day abuse.


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## theone29 (Aug 13, 2007)

i'm freaking jealous. nice rides.


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## tofumann (Jun 17, 2008)

rhauft,
what bottle cages do you have on the Prince RED??


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## cpark (Oct 13, 2004)

I might be wrong but I think they are Winwood Carbon Cages......


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## rhauft (Aug 8, 2006)

Winwood C/F = 19 grams each


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## tofumann (Jun 17, 2008)

Fulcrum RSS crankset....is that from the sponsor as well? Mind telling where can I find a decent price on them?


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## the genie (May 10, 2008)

Remarkable setup, and, as I expected, superior performance. I share your opinion about the Red groupset, it is excellent. I do have an issue with it, the crankset, and I'm glad you chose the Fulcrum instead. I find the original one impossible to tune, and apparently the guys at Sram are beginning to recognize that too. Again, you took care of that with a very good choice for replacement.

Nothing like a good day of abuse to discover what these bikes are made of, eh? Like you, I did a century yesterday, with 7,000 ft of climbing in 98° very dry weather (I'm in So. Cal.). The bike performed flawlessly, responding exactly the way it should. Every time I ride it, I like it more. 

One more thing—Although mine is a 08 team color, it's a 09 build. It has the detachable derailleur hanger, and came with the white Tail 1K seatpost.

Thank you for the report.


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## rhauft (Aug 8, 2006)

tofumann said:


> Fulcrum RSS crankset....is that from the sponsor as well? Mind telling where can I find a decent price on them?


Sort of, I get pro deals on most stuff. I've had my eye on these cranks for some time. The Red cranks are the one weak link in an otherwise excellent groupo. My 1st test ride on the 09 exposed that one ***** in the armour. Compared to my 08's Record ultra torque set-up it was noticably "softer' and I knew I needed an upgrade. Now it's all good.

Linky


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## rhauft (Aug 8, 2006)

the genie said:


> Remarkable setup, and, as I expected, superior performance. I share your opinion about the Red groupset, it is excellent. I do have an issue with it, the crankset, and I'm glad you chose the Fulcrum instead. I find the original one impossible to tune, and apparently the guys at Sram are beginning to recognize that too. Again, you took care of that with a very good choice for replacement.
> 
> Nothing like a good day of abuse to discover what these bikes are made of, eh? Like you, I did a century yesterday, with 7,000 ft of climbing in 98° very dry weather (I'm in So. Cal.). The bike performed flawlessly, responding exactly the way it should. Every time I ride it, I like it more.
> 
> ...


98 degrees???  Hard to believe we're in the same state?
I'm up in the bay area and we haven't seen the sun since December...
100% agreement on the Red cranks = weak link. My guess that's why they came out with BB30 so soon after. 
08 Ltd. team color on 09 spec = NICE! How did you swing that?
I'm really torn as to what to do with my 08? It's so beautiful yet I don't use it because of the der. hanger issue. Up here, especially this time of year, the roads are just too slimey for me to risk landing on the drive side. $hit happens... 
What's your club ride of choice down there? I've done a lot of them:
Simi
Rose Bowl
Kettle
Dounut
Como
Swami (my fav socal ride)


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## the genie (May 10, 2008)

The 08 Ltd. is, in my view, still the most beautiful of them all. It's a very cool story how I ended up with a 09 build in that color, one that I think you'll appreciate. But it's better if I PM you with the details later. 
Swami's is the good club ride around here, I've been doing it off and on for 15 years or so. It is, however, getting pretty competitive and crowded, 50—70 riders at the time. I'm enjoying more the smaller groups, say 10 or 12, with guys I know well and I'm confident they can pace with precision.


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## rhauft (Aug 8, 2006)

the genie said:


> The 08 Ltd. is, in my view, still the most beautiful of them all. It's a very cool story how I ended up with a 09 build in that color, one that I think you'll appreciate. But it's better if I PM you with the details later.
> Swami's is the good club ride around here, I've been doing it off and on for 15 years or so. It is, however, getting pretty competitive and crowded, 50—70 riders at the time. I'm enjoying more the smaller groups, say 10 or 12, with guys I know well and I'm confident they can pace with precision.


I frequent SD regularly and always bring a bike. Love the Swami ride, the bigger the better. Fun ride.

Looking at the two Pinas side by side, I'm inclined to agree that the Ltd. is the more attractive of the two. Especially up close an in person. That's precisely why I am having such difficulty deciding what to do with mine. It's a bit extravagant for a spare...

Btw, nice jockey pulleys. What chain are you using?
PM me with details please. Cheers!


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## Sacke (May 23, 2007)

rhauft said:


> Btw, nice jockey pulleys. What chain are you using?
> PM me with details please. Cheers!


Looks like standard Super Record with a Record 11 speed chain...


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## the genie (May 10, 2008)

Sacke said:


> Looks like standard Super Record with a Record 11 speed chain...



correct.


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## rhauft (Aug 8, 2006)

Sacke said:


> Looks like standard Super Record with a Record 11 speed chain...


Yes of course, I was just complimenting on how pretty the new SR11 pulleys are. It was the R11 chain that threw me. I expected it to be drilled out like the R10 chain... Perhaps Campy is saving that last detail for an upcoming SR11 chain?


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