# Michelin Pro 2 or 3 - Continental GP4000 S or Chili ?



## nismosr (Jun 27, 2007)

is there really a difference in performance with the newer model tire ? and which do you guys prefer or currently in running and how do you guys like it?


----------



## Mootsie (Feb 4, 2004)

I've run Michelins and Conti's and I gotta tell you I like Vredstein Fortezza and Maxxis Refuse better for comfort, grip and durability. My Pro 2's just cut so easily and the Conti's never seemed to last. Just my opinion.


----------



## threesportsinone (Mar 27, 2007)

I just recently put some Continental GP4000S (I think these are black chili compound?) tires on my bike. So far, with one race, three solo rides, and one 65mile fast group ride I like them alot. 

I've ridden a total of 10 miles on pro3's so I can't really comment on them.


----------



## Kerry Irons (Feb 25, 2002)

*Blind tests*



nismosr said:


> is there really a difference in performance with the newer model tire ? and which do you guys prefer or currently in running and how do you guys like it?


Too bad nobody has figured out how to do a blind test on tires, because I really doubt that most people could tell one comparable tire from another. And for those who could tell them apart, I'd be surprised if their feelings would correlate with any real measurements. Buy tires based on price and color


----------



## stevesbike (Jun 3, 2002)

I don't know about that; there are some tires I have tried that I've taken off even while they had some like left due to not liking them. The Conti attack (or whatever the front-specific one of the paired tires is) never felt secure in terms of grip and scared me on aggressive descents. I was tempted by a sale to try a top-end Panaracer and it lasted a couple of rides on my bike-felt like it was solid rubber in terms of comfort. I've been riding the Conti400s this season and really like them - feel great, grippy, and great puncture resistence despite crummy Socal roads...


----------



## acid_rider (Nov 23, 2004)

I think Conti 4000 puncture resistance is just OK (7 out of 10?), nothing special. I was lucky with first set, only 3-4 flats in ~9000km but on my second set I got 2 flats on my 3rd ride. The proof is puncture resistance on wet road. 90% of my flats have been on wet roads. I dont rate Conti 4000 high on puncture resistance. Sidewalls are a bit weak too. Else it is a nice training tyre. I have not tried 4000S but it does not offer any more puincture protection compared to standard 4000. I am going back to Michelin Krylion Carbon, they last longer, puncture less and have almost the same performance as Conti 4000, for training anyhow.


----------



## cpark (Oct 13, 2004)

I have about 2000 miles on my 4000S and so far so good.
No flat, no cut and seems to roll well like the most of the high end tires are suppose to....
The front one looks like a lot more miles left on it while the back one might last another 1000 to 2000 miles.


----------



## Michelin Bicycle Tech (Nov 14, 2007)

nismosr said:


> is there really a difference in performance with the newer model tire ? and which do you guys prefer or currently in running and how do you guys like it?


We have found with the Pro3 Race there is up to 27% more grip on the tires in wet weather, while decreasing the weight by 20 grams and having the same longevity and durability all while only raising the price by $2.00.

Give them a shot and see for yourself if there is an improvement over the Pro2 Races. :thumbsup:


----------



## gitoutdaway (Nov 28, 2007)

I am in the market for some new tires too. So far Michlins pro 2 are great, fast and grippy and light. Vreds are really good too, slightly heavier i think but well made.

i am torn between Pro3s and Vittoria Open tubulars for a set of Reynolds wheels, though I also bought an extra set of pro2s on sale for my kysriums

Anyone have extra opinions on open tubulars?


----------



## Kerry Irons (Feb 25, 2002)

*Open tubulars and front tire wear*



gitoutdaway said:


> Anyone have extra opinions on open tubulars?


Open Tubular is just a marketing name for a company's tires. The argument is something like "same construction as our tubular tire, just not sewn up and with a bead for mounting." There is no standard definition of what makes an open tubular. Any manufacturer can claim that any of their tires is an open tubular. That said, typically this designation is given to the higher-end tires in the line. Pay no attention to that designation.



cpark said:


> The front one looks like a lot more miles left on it while the back one might last another 1000 to 2000 miles.


Tires wear due to power disipation - the rubber is sheared off the tread due to either pedaling or braking forces. If you don't do a lot of heavy braking, a front tire will hardly wear at all. I have weighed front tires after 6,000 miles and seen around 5 grams of weight loss and no measureable tread thinning.


----------



## gitoutdaway (Nov 28, 2007)

So an "Open Tubular" is basically a fancy, higher priced clincher? Higher TPI? No other attributes differentiating it from other high end clinchers such as those being discussed?

Thats kinda what I thought but a few bike shop people have been touting their vastly superior ride lately. IS it just a way to sell an even more expensive product?


----------



## rruff (Feb 28, 2006)

gitoutdaway said:


> Thats kinda what I thought but a few bike shop people have been touting their vastly superior ride lately. IS it just a way to sell an even more expensive product?


It is market-speak. It *might* relate to a different construction method (tread glued to the casing rather than vulcanized?) but there is no improvement in Crr or "ride" as far as I can tell.


----------



## gitoutdaway (Nov 28, 2007)

Figures. It is s interesting how market pressures force everyone to come out with the "latest greatest" every single year no mattter what. I'm sure this also leads to progress but so often its like re-inventing the wheel so to speak.


----------



## CleavesF (Dec 31, 2007)

chili goes pop.


----------



## Kerry Irons (Feb 25, 2002)

*The probable origins*



gitoutdaway said:


> Figures. It is s interesting how market pressures force everyone to come out with the "latest greatest" every single year no mattter what. I'm sure this also leads to progress but so often its like re-inventing the wheel so to speak.


"Open Tubular" is a term that came out of Europe, and from the makers of tubulars who finally came around to supplying high performance clinchers. Since it used to be that race tires were only tubulars, these folks wanted everyone to know that their high end clinchers were "just like their tubulars" and gave the impression that these tires were tubulars with a bead and not stitched up. Hence the "open" reference.


----------



## raymonda (Jan 31, 2007)

The 290 cotton thread count on the Vit Open Tubular are pretty compy. try them between 95-105 PSI. I'm on a pair now and have enjoyed them. However, I will go back to Conti's after I wear these out.

I have been riding Conti's on and off for 22 years. They grip well enough for me, roll nicely, are lite, and last for ever. 2,000 miles seems about right.

I have tried Michelin's on and off but never really liked them due to the ease inwhich they cut and I never seem to get more than 700-1000 miles out of them if they last that long without cutting.


----------



## tarwheel2 (Jul 7, 2005)

Is is true that the new ProRace3 tires are narrower than ProRace2s? One of the things I like about Michelin tires is the wider tread. My 700x23 Michelins measure 25 mm, and my 25s measure 27-28 mm wide. If this is true, I will need to order 700x25 Michelins from now on. Also, do the wider treads apply to Krylions as well?


----------



## wilier (Mar 16, 2002)

tarwheel2 said:


> Is is true that the new ProRace3 tires are narrower than ProRace2s? One of the things I like about Michelin tires is the wider tread. My 700x23 Michelins measure 25 mm, and my 25s measure 27-28 mm wide. If this is true, I will need to order 700x25 Michelins from now on. Also, do the wider treads apply to Krylions as well?


the 20/23/25 in 700x20/23/25 has nothing to do with width. That number denotes the height of the tire. You'll notice that across brands, there is no consistency reagrding the width of a 700x23 tire. They are all 23mm tall though. You may find that 700x25's are no wider than 700x23's once mounted (although they probably are).

Having said that, I apologize for not answering your question as I have no idea - (have not mounted my Pro3's yet).


----------



## Kerry Irons (Feb 25, 2002)

*Width and height*



wilier said:


> the 20/23/25 in 700x20/23/25 has nothing to do with width. That number denotes the height of the tire. You'll notice that across brands, there is no consistency reagrding the width of a 700x23 tire. They are all 23mm tall though.


Uh, I think you are completely confused. With the exception of the thickness of the tread, an inflated tire is just about as close to round as it can be. If one tire is a 23 and another is a 25 (same brand/model) then the 25 will be pretty darn close to 2 mm wider (and taller) than the 23. 

Are you really claiming that a 20, 23 and a 25 are the same width, but the 25 has 5 mm more tread than the 20? That is the only way you could make an inflated tire taller than it is wide. BTW, total tread thickness on a typical 23mm tire is about 2 mm.


----------



## 7.62 (Oct 13, 2006)

The only tire I've tried (from the ones you mentioned) is the Pro 2. I've got 1,800 miles on them with 3 or 4 ITT's so far. They seem pretty durable. I can't see myself using another brand.

I'l looking forward to trying out the Pro 3's.


----------



## Ronman (Feb 12, 2007)

The Pro3s I'm currently running actually seem more durable than the Pro2s I've run in the past. I've nothing to support this other than I've been riding the same roads and distances and they just aren't getting cut or torn as much as the Pro2s. The Pro2s were great tires, but the 3s seem more durable. The 3s also seem to roll slightly smoother than the 2s for whatever reason.
I've also run the Conti 4000 and liked it alot, but when descending they seemed slightly sketchy in fast turns. The Pro2s and 3s feel more stable and consistant. Otherwise the Contis were terrific.


----------



## kooratz (May 4, 2008)

Has anyone actually done a true back to back test? Brand new Conti's ridden for say 60 miles then swapped, on the same bike and wheels, to new Michies for 60 miles, same day, same roads etc. Or is it always old tyres vs new tyres. That's got to impact the ride impression. Memory plays tricks, not to mention different days, season and conditions....


----------



## Michelin Bicycle Tech (Nov 14, 2007)

tarwheel2 said:


> Is is true that the new ProRace3 tires are narrower than ProRace2s? One of the things I like about Michelin tires is the wider tread. My 700x23 Michelins measure 25 mm, and my 25s measure 27-28 mm wide. If this is true, I will need to order 700x25 Michelins from now on. Also, do the wider treads apply to Krylions as well?


I can say that a lot of the width of the tire also depends on which rim you have them mounted on. If you take a tire and mount it, say on a Mavic rim, then switch that same exact tire and tube over to a, say Shimano rim, with the same ETRTO, you will most likely come up with a different number. This is due to rim tolerances, rim models and just plain old manufacturing. I can say with 100% confidence that I measured out my Pro3 Races on a Mavic Cosmic Carbone rim and it measured out to a 23.4mm. What does that mean for a Pro2 Race?? I honestly do not know as I never swapped over tires to the same exact rim for measuring. And I mean nothing to either of those 2 rim companies that I mentioned, I just picked 2 off of the top of my head.


----------



## stevesbike (Jun 3, 2002)

how can the new race3's both decrease rolling resistance and increase straight-ahead grip (by 20%)?


----------



## Michelin Bicycle Tech (Nov 14, 2007)

stevesbike said:


> how can the new race3's both decrease rolling resistance and increase straight-ahead grip (by 20%)?


It was done by the way we manipulated the Co-Extruded Silica compound and by using some of the technologies used in our Moto GP program.


----------



## tarwheel2 (Jul 7, 2005)

Well, so let me rephrase my question: Are the new ProRace3 tires narrower than ProRace2s and their predecessors? I've got Mavic Open Pro rims on all of my bikes, and on those rims Michelin 23s measure 25 mm wide, and 25s measure 27-28 mm wide. The heights seem pretty consistent with the size.


----------



## 7.62 (Oct 13, 2006)

Is there a white/black color available for the Pro3?


----------



## Michelin Bicycle Tech (Nov 14, 2007)

tarwheel2 said:


> Well, so let me rephrase my question: Are the new ProRace3 tires narrower than ProRace2s and their predecessors? I've got Mavic Open Pro rims on all of my bikes, and on those rims Michelin 23s measure 25 mm wide, and 25s measure 27-28 mm wide. The heights seem pretty consistent with the size.


I do not have an answer for that because I have not measured any MICHELIN Pro2 Races on that rim. I will check around my house to see if there is something on the newer side of things and try to mount them up and measure them. If I only have older tires that have been completely stretched out, it might make a difference, but I will see what I can do.


----------



## wilier (Mar 16, 2002)

Kerry Irons said:


> Are you really claiming that a 20, 23 and a 25 are the same width, but the 25 has 5 mm more tread than the 20? That is the only way you could make an inflated tire taller than it is wide. BTW, total tread thickness on a typical 23mm tire is about 2 mm.


Nope - that's not at all what I'm claiming. I'm just saying that the width is irrelevant in the "700x23" numbers. Pointing out that the 23 does not refer to width but to height.


----------



## dhtucker4 (Jul 7, 2004)

Pro Race 2 (127 tpi) are so hard to put on any clincher rim, now if they were above 300 tpi, I could understand that. But they are nowhere near. I have had good luck with GP 3000 & GP 4000. In five years, I got three flats, that's pretty good protection, considering I buy tubes that are less than 100 grams.


----------



## Michelin Bicycle Tech (Nov 14, 2007)

7.62 said:


> Is there a white/black color available for the Pro3?


There is an Ivory color, which is as close to white as I can tell, that will be available in September.


----------

