# American made carbon frames?



## Rum Runner (Jul 7, 2008)

Are there any carbon frames made in the states? If so thats where I would like to start my hunt for a new road bike.


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## Marc (Jan 23, 2005)

Short of custom/small builders...only big maker left is the top-shelf segment of Treks. All their lower tiers are made in Asia, they keep their top end in the USA last I knew.


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## waterobert (Nov 24, 2009)

Well,finding American made frame will be challenging, mostly on your wallet. Cervelo R5 CA is hand made in California but costs staggering $9500.


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## cxwrench (Nov 9, 2004)

waterobert said:


> Well,finding American made frame will be challenging, mostly on your wallet. Cervelo R5 is hand made in California but costs staggering $9500.


the R5 CA is made in Ca, the R5 is made in Asia. 6 series Trek frames are made here. other than that, it's small builders here and there. $9800 for the Cervelo...frame/fork/crank/post w/ headset and bb bearings.


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## CleavesF (Dec 31, 2007)

Kestrels aren't even made in America anymore 

But... Calfees are, and always will be in house.


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## jwcurry83 (Jun 21, 2010)

Cannondales are still made in the US, right?


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## rubbersoul (Mar 1, 2010)

The custom Parlee's are


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## waterobert (Nov 24, 2009)

My Cannondale Synapse supposedly made in USA had little tiny sticker under the crank "Made in China"


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## jmoryl (Sep 5, 2004)

jwcurry83 said:


> Cannondales are still made in the US, right?


No. Cannodale went bankrupt a few years ago and was bought by Dorel Industries, the people who bring us Asian products labeled with the names Schwinn, Mongoose, GT and Sugoi. They were quick to shut down the factory in PA and move production to Asia.

BTW, aside from the high end Trek Madones there are several small builders in the US making carbon: Serotta, Calfee, Crumpton....


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## Richard (Feb 17, 2006)

The Trek 6 series is still USA made. You can get a complete Ultegra equipped Project One for under $4000 (at least from our shop.).

Calfees and Parlees are two customs that come to mind.

And the Cervelo is priced through the roof.


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## Peter P. (Dec 30, 2006)

There absolutely are!

I think American built frames clinch the title hands-down when it comes to quality in construction, alignment, and finish.

Serotta-MeiVici SE
A big name and expensive, but you're certain to get a quality frame from a company that's been in business for over 25 years.

Landshark-Pro Carbon.
John Slawta has transitioned from steel to carbon frames. His paint jobs are legendary, and he built Andy Hampsten's 1988 Giro d'Italia winning bike.

Calfee Designs-The entry level Luna is just as good as the full custom Tetra, in my eyes, and the Luna is very affordable when compared to any of the european offerings. Craig Calfee built Greg LeMond's Tour de France frames. Craig also runs a VERY successful carbon frame repair business.


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## looigi (Nov 24, 2010)

Cervelo: Is that CA as is California, or Ca as in Canada?

Parlee does have at least one frame made in Taiwan.


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## cxwrench (Nov 9, 2004)

Cervelo R5 CA as in California. been to the facility in so-cal. pretty cool watching them build that frame. after seeing that and knowing how other frames are built, i think they're pretty much the top of the heap when comes to engineering the crap out of a bike frame. that said, the differences between them and most every other quality frame are very small...there are literally tons of great bikes out there.


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## vettracer (Jan 12, 2011)

Another is Kirk Lee

KirkLee Bicycles


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## AvantDale (Dec 26, 2008)

jwcurry83 said:


> Cannondales are still made in the US, right?


IIRC, the last US made carbon Cannondale was the 2009 Super Six. They appear to have more issues than the 2010 Taiwan made ones. 

The last aluminum frames were the 2010 CAAD9's.


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## Hooben (Aug 22, 2004)

It was estimated that if the ipad were made in the USA it would cost upwards of 5000 american dollars. Here's to Chinese production!


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## The Mountaineer (Nov 11, 2010)

don't forget
Litespeed Bicycles


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## dwc032 (Feb 1, 2011)

The Mountaineer said:


> don't forget
> Litespeed Bicycles


Litespeed is not American made anymore. There Ti frames were made in the USA at one time but not anymore.


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## Mr. Scary (Dec 7, 2005)

waterobert said:


> My Cannondale Synapse supposedly made in USA had little tiny sticker under the crank "Made in China"


Cannondale never claimed the Synapse was made in the US, they were open when they introduced it that production was in Asia. It never had the "Handmade in the USA" stickers anywhere on the frame.


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## exracer (Jun 6, 2005)

Massengill Frames, I believe they are out of Oklahoma. Massengill, Kirk Lee, Crumpton are all priced pretty much in line ($3500-$4500) with most high end carbon frames. Cervelo is really proud of their R5 CA.


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## exracer (Jun 6, 2005)

Originally posted by *Peter P*


> I think American built frames clinch the title hands-down when it comes to quality in construction, alignment, and finish.


I wouldn't say that. Depends more on the frame builder than where he is located.


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## spookyload (Jan 30, 2004)

Aegis bikes are still made in the USA. Used to be a major competitor for Kestrel back in the day. Made in the frigid tundra of Maine since 1986.


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## Kontact (Apr 1, 2011)

A $2195 Calfee is made completely in the US. And it's a good bike with Ti dropouts that will last a long time past its 10 year warranty - so the price of US carbon is really not high at all.

I don't know if that's really true of the 6 Madones. The pieces are bonded together in Waterloo, but were the sub assemblies laid up here?


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## Ride-Fly (Mar 27, 2002)

As previousy mentioned, the top tier US carbon makers are Crumpton, Parlee, Serotta, Calfee. Others that are not as well known are Landshark, Strong (Carl), Kirklee, and Appleman. There are probably a few more really small builders that are very under the radar. 

Personally, I would choose a Crumpton, then Parlee or Landshark.


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## Mr. Scary (Dec 7, 2005)

Hooben said:


> It was estimated that if the ipad were made in the USA it would cost upwards of 5000 american dollars. Here's to Chinese production!


Care to supply a link to this estimate? I googled and and came up with a BOM that showed manufacturing costs at $10 per unit for Asia and over $300 was attributable to COGS (supplier manufactured components). The estimate for the parts to be assembled here (labor) would add $127 to the cost (this was investigated due to Federal Requirements for Made in the USA for sensitive areas due to security, etc). That's a far cry from $5K.


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## CleavesF (Dec 31, 2007)

Kontact said:


> A $2195 Calfee is made completely in the US. And it's a good bike with Ti dropouts that will last a long time past its 10 year warranty - so the price of US carbon is really not high at all.
> 
> I don't know if that's really true of the 6 Madones. The pieces are bonded together in Waterloo, but were the sub assemblies laid up here?


Only the highest end 6 Madones are all US made. In Trek words that means SSSSLLLSLSLSLSLLLLSLLSLLLL or 6.99999999999

I only know this because my good friend works in that R&D department. Too bad he can't give me a tour.


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## zyzbot (Feb 3, 2004)

spookyload said:


> Aegis bikes are still made in the USA. Used to be a major competitor for Kestrel back in the day. Made in the frigid tundra of Maine since 1986.


Aegis went out of business a couple years ago.

http://forums.roadbikereview.com/hot-deals/aegis-out-business-sale-195616.html


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## bwhite_4 (Aug 29, 2006)

Jesus ... Crumpton people. Crumpton!


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## Dave Hickey (Jan 27, 2002)

Ride-Fly said:


> Personally, I would choose a Crumpton, then Parlee or Landshark.


me too...in that order


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## dombey19 (Oct 2, 2008)

Just to clarify one post in this thread . . . Litespeed carbon bikes may be made overseas, but according to their website, the titanium bikes are still "handmade in the U.S."


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## cdhbrad (Feb 18, 2003)

Carl Stong builds custom Carbon Frames in Bozeman, Montana, using carbon tubesets fabricated for him by Enve Composites in Ogden, Utah......it doesn't get any more American than that. Carl won the award for "Best Carbon Fiber Frame" at the 2011 NAHBS show in Austin this year.


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## Ride-Fly (Mar 27, 2002)

cdhbrad said:


> Carl Stong builds custom Carbon Frames in Bozeman, Montana, using carbon tubesets fabricated for him by Enve Composites in Ogden, Utah......it doesn't get any more American than that. Carl won the award for "Best Carbon Fiber Frame" at the 2011 NAHBS show in Austin this year.


I love Carl's work and I'm sure his carbon frames are sweet but I don't put much stock into these bike show awards. It's really just a marketing pageant. Consider that Carl got a lot of help and insight from Nick Crumpton, and then in Carl's first year of production (I know carl has been working with and perfecting his carbon frames for a few years) he wins the Best Carbon frame award tells me something. I would not even consider a Strong Carbon over a Crumpton. I would take a Strong steel or Ti over a lot builders though.


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## ohiorick (May 29, 2010)

Not meaning to hijack this tread, but what is it about an american made carbon frame that is "that" much better than one made somewhere else? I own a Trek Madone, made in the USA. I am overjoyed with it. Great bike and I love it. I am looking at a Stevens CX bike and just found out the frames are made in Asia. At first I thought, "no way" but the bikes are getting good reviews,and are priced well, so I may end up with one.


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## Ride-Fly (Mar 27, 2002)

ohiorick said:


> Not meaning to hijack this tread, but what is it about an american made carbon frame that is "that" much better than one made somewhere else? I own a Trek Madone, made in the USA. I am overjoyed with it. Great bike and I love it. I am looking at a Stevens CX bike and just found out the frames are made in Asia. At first I thought, "no way" but the bikes are getting good reviews,and are priced well, so I may end up with one.


It's not about "better". It's a lot of things but purely based on "better" it is not. I'd venture to say that the top frames from Giant, Specialized, Jamis, Cannondale, et al are as good or better in many aspects than Crumpton, Parlee, Calfee, Colnago, and the like.


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## Blue CheeseHead (Jul 14, 2008)

Peter P. said:


> There absolutely are!
> 
> I think American built frames clinch the title hands-down when it comes to quality in construction, alignment, and finish.
> 
> ...


There are plenty of nice carbon frames not made in the US and not in Asia. Time and Colnago come to mind.

I get it that the OP is looking to buy American.:thumbsup:


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## tidi (Jan 11, 2008)

*here's one*

Aegis carbon 56cm NOS | eBay
hope the link works


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## Kontact (Apr 1, 2011)

ohiorick said:


> Not meaning to hijack this tread, but what is it about an american made carbon frame that is "that" much better than one made somewhere else? I own a Trek Madone, made in the USA. I am overjoyed with it. Great bike and I love it. I am looking at a Stevens CX bike and just found out the frames are made in Asia. At first I thought, "no way" but the bikes are getting good reviews,and are priced well, so I may end up with one.


Aside from the obvious advantage in not exporting your dollars, buying an American boutique bicycle comes with the promise of a better product. NOT because American's can stick carbon fibers to each other better, but because Parlee, Crumpton, Serotta, Calfee (etc) are all men with a passion for bicycles that motivates them to make excellent products. Asian plants are motivated to produce whatever - bicycles, DVD players, iPhones - because they like to sell stuff. For Crumpton and the like, building bicycles wasn't a get rich quick scheme - it is more like a sacrifice.

Clearly, Trek is no different than Giant in this regard, but these small producers of top end bicycles are crafting something based on their beliefs about what a bicycle should do - not trying to hit a price point.

I think we should all ask ourselves "Who designed my bicycle, and what motivated that design?" I don't know what sort of positive answers there are to that question when the designer lives in China.


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## orange_julius (Jan 24, 2003)

Kontact said:


> Aside from the obvious advantage in not exporting your dollars, buying an American boutique bicycle comes with the promise of a better product. NOT because American's can stick carbon fibers to each other better, but because Parlee, Crumpton, Serotta, Calfee (etc) are all men with a passion for bicycles that motivates them to make excellent products. Asian plants are motivated to produce whatever - bicycles, DVD players, iPhones - because they like to sell stuff. For Crumpton and the like, building bicycles wasn't a get rich quick scheme - it is more like a sacrifice.
> 
> Clearly, Trek is no different than Giant in this regard, but these small producers of top end bicycles are crafting something based on their beliefs about what a bicycle should do - not trying to hit a price point.
> 
> I think we should all ask ourselves "Who designed my bicycle, and what motivated that design?" I don't know what sort of positive answers there are to that question when the designer lives in China.


Kontact, while I agree with the spirit of what you are saying regarding buying from people who care about bikes, it's unfair to lump a lot of manufacturers under the header "Asian plants". Also, when you say "China" do you mean the Republic of China (Taiwan) or the People's Republic of China? 

Even though Giant is well, a giant company, they invested very early in carbon technology and continue to do so. Plus they actually develop their own intellectual property. I think of them very differently from copycats like Hongfu, etc. Just my 34 cents. Or whatever stamp costs these days. And this coming from somebody who buys only Cyfac frames.


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## dave2pvd (Oct 15, 2007)

orange_julius said:


> Kontact, while I agree with the spirit of what you are saying regarding buying from people who care about bikes, it's unfair to lump a lot of manufacturers under the header "Asian plants". Also, when you say "China" do you mean the Republic of China (Taiwan) or the People's Republic of China?
> 
> Even though Giant is well, a giant company, they invested very early in carbon technology and continue to do so. Plus they actually develop their own intellectual property. I think of them very differently from copycats like Hongfu, etc. Just my 34 cents. Or whatever stamp costs these days. And this coming from somebody who buys only Cyfac frames.


I would tend to agree with this viewpoint. Giant pretty much pioneered volume production of carbon fiber of frames - with significant help from the Taiwanese government. Taiwan is now where (IMO) the most advanced CF frames are made. I like Crumpton, Calfee and Parlee, but aren't they all still stuck on lower capital-investment methods like tube-to-tube or lugged construction? That is no longer the way to make the lightest, stiffest, frame (monocoque). I see the French and Italian manufacturers doing the same - when they're not outsourcing to China or Taiwan.


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## dwc032 (Feb 1, 2011)

dombey19 said:


> Just to clarify one post in this thread . . . Litespeed carbon bikes may be made overseas, but according to their website, the titanium bikes are still "handmade in the U.S."


My buddy just bought a Ti Litespeed and it said made in China on the BB.


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## Kontact (Apr 1, 2011)

dave2pvd said:


> I would tend to agree with this viewpoint. Giant pretty much pioneered volume production of carbon fiber of frames - with significant help from the Taiwanese government. Taiwan is now where (IMO) the most advanced CF frames are made. I like Crumpton, Calfee and Parlee, but aren't they all still stuck on lower capital-investment methods like tube-to-tube or lugged construction? That is no longer the way to make the lightest, stiffest, frame (monocoque). I see the French and Italian manufacturers doing the same - when they're not outsourcing to China or Taiwan.


Bicycles exceeded their necessary stiffness 25 years ago. And some of the very lightest frames are made by Parlee and Crumpton - those silly tube-to-tube guys you are denigrating. And the reason they use those methods (aside from the obvious fact that they work) is because they build custom bikes, which is impossible with molded frames.

There is no "right" way to make a carbon frame. Frames are molded because it is the cheapest way to mass produce carbon bicycles. Higher initial investment, lowest long term cost.

In any case, both of you missed the main point I was making - Nick Crumpton builds bikes because he loves them and wants to build a better machine for people that appreciate the level of design he offers. Giant is a mass producer that is interested in selling stuff, so they design bicycles that appeal to the most people for the least cost - same as if they were making toasters. Which philosophy makes a better bike?

I challenge you to find a bike that rides as well, weighs less and lasts as long as a Parlee Z1. I've ridden a $9800 Cervelo R5Ca - that isn't it.


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## Ecrevisse (Sep 27, 2011)

I just got back into cycling after 11 years away, working my butt off. I'm rather surprised that all the carbon bikes are all made in Asia except for the very high end (expensive) ones.

I still ride steel, either Italian or American made. No carbon. Don't need it. Don't want it.


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## Eldnur (May 28, 2010)

Ecrevisse said:


> I still ride steel, either Italian or American made. No carbon. Don't need it. Don't want it.



Well that was helpful ...


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## Kontact (Apr 1, 2011)

spidaman said:


> Litespeed Bicycles


What about Litespeed's Asian made carbon frames do you want to talk about?


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## onthebottom (May 4, 2011)

My Madone 6SSL was made in WI.... awesome bike!


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## Jay Strongbow (May 8, 2010)

independent Fabrication and Seven both make a carbon model in the US now.

I think Edge/Enve makes the carbon tubes in the US for Parlee and a couple other high end makers in the US. so depending what you consider made in the us to really mean.....


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## Mike T. (Feb 3, 2004)

I know this one doesn't fit the "made in USA" criteria but Guru are made in Montreal Quebec Canada.


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## tornado (Nov 26, 2004)

We didn't follow the book on Carbon Fiber. We wrote it.


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## zyzbot (Feb 3, 2004)

tornado said:


> We didn't follow the book on Carbon Fiber. We wrote it.


Aegis went out of business a couple years back. They probably still have some NOS frames.


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## CleavesF (Dec 31, 2007)

I thought LOOK wrote the book on carbon fiber...

damn marketers got my history all mixed up now...


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## jnbrown (Dec 9, 2009)

Calfee


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## Oracle7775 (Sep 16, 2009)

Kontact said:


> A $2195 Calfee is made completely in the US. And it's a good bike with Ti dropouts that will last a long time past its 10 year warranty - so the price of US carbon is really not high at all.
> 
> I don't know if that's really true of the 6 Madones. The pieces are bonded together in Waterloo, but were the sub assemblies laid up here?


I've been in the room at Trek where they make their carbon frames. Given Trek's size, it is a surprisingly small and humble-looking facility. Everything is hand-made from the bottom up.


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## lampshade (Jul 18, 2002)

exracer said:


> Massengill Frames, I believe they are out of Oklahoma. Massengill, Kirk Lee, Crumpton are all priced pretty much in line ($3500-$4500) with most high end carbon frames. Cervelo is really proud of their R5 CA.


I've heard Masengill is kind of douchey.


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## nightfend (Mar 15, 2009)

Oracle7775 said:


> I've been in the room at Trek where they make their carbon frames. Given Trek's size, it is a surprisingly small and humble-looking facility. Everything is hand-made from the bottom up.


Well, it is small because they only build their top-end models there.


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## tbb001 (Oct 1, 2007)

nightfend said:


> Well, it is small because they only build their top-end models there.


Yeah, I'm sure they don't sell many of those.


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## Bob Ross (Apr 18, 2006)

Jay Strongbow said:


> I think Edge/Enve makes the carbon tubes* in the US *for Parlee and a couple other high end makers* in the US*. so depending what you consider* made in the us *to really mean.....



What _wouldn't_ someone consider "made in the US" about a bike made in the US out of carbon tubes made in the US?


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## EvilEuro (Sep 28, 2005)

Kontact said:


> A $2195 Calfee is made completely in the US. And it's a good bike with Ti dropouts that will last a long time past its 10 year warranty - so the price of US carbon is really not high at all.
> 
> I don't know if that's really true of the 6 Madones. The pieces are bonded together in Waterloo, but were the sub assemblies laid up here?


As told to me by a few Trek reps and some friends who work at Trek concept stores, Trek has exclusive rights to an aerospace grade carbon fiber that Boeing produces. This carbon fiber is not available for export in large sheet form due to some Defense Department restrictions. 

So it's definitely US made carbon fiber from Boeing that Trek uses to make its frames, all of which is done in Wisconsin. There are a ton of videos on YouTube and Vimeo showing off their build process for the 6 series. It's all quite impressive.


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