# Kick Stands?



## jsidney (Aug 24, 2011)

I have a feeling I am going to seem really stupid.

I just noticed that the bikes I have been looking at don't have kick stands or at least I don't think they do. What happened to them?

I am guessing people use bike racks. I don't know that I have seen a bike rack in this county.

How do you guys stand up your bike without a kick stand?

I have never had a bike without one.

When I go to a friends ranch or farm I would have to lay the bike down.


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## Aggdaddy (Jun 18, 2010)

Kickstand is dead weight. Definitely unwanted on road bikes. Might get in the way on mountain bikes when on trails. If you're commuting, more than likely you're going to lean your bike up against something so that you can secure it. 

You can always add one, but I prefer the clean look.


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## jsidney (Aug 24, 2011)

Aggdaddy said:


> Kickstand is dead weight. Definitely unwanted on road bikes. Might get in the way on mountain bikes when on trails. If you're commuting, more than likely you're going to lean your bike up against something so that you can secure it.
> 
> You can always add one, but I prefer the clean look.


I am starting to think I am wanting a utility bike that think that it is a road bike. When use the kick stand I am not walking away from the bike but am still with it.

I use one constantly. I think not having one will take a lot of getting used to.


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## QED (Aug 11, 2011)

You can get a hybrid bike. That is a cross over between mountain and road. It doesn't give you all the off road ability that a mtn bike would, but is much easier to ride on the road. Many of them even have kickstands. I rode a hybrid to commute on before I ever got a road bike. It worked just fine for what was a 12 mile commute.


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## Guest (Aug 29, 2011)

95% of the time I'm not at home, I have my bike locked to a rack, pipe, or something similar outdoors.

At home though, or at trusted freinds' houses I lean the saddle and/or rear panniers rack against a wall, tree, pole, or other rigid object, then turn the handlebars so that the front wheel is facing away from the wall/rigid object. The bike will stand in place pretty securely if you do this. 

This is what I usually do when I lock my bike up too -- lean my saddle against the pole I intend to lock to, so that the bike is free-standing. Next, I remove my U-Lock and apnniers from the rack (which I can do easily without my bike falling over), then place my lock through the rear wheel and seat tube. I'll sometimes rotate one of my pedals around too so I can rest the weight of my lock on the pedal (so it's not putting weight on my spokes/rim when I lock through the wheels) 

It seems most people lock their bikes up in such a way that their bike is basically "hanging" from their u-lock, which can't be good for the frame/rims...


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## jsidney (Aug 24, 2011)

QED said:


> You can get a hybrid bike. That is a cross over between mountain and road. It doesn't give you all the off road ability that a mtn bike would, but is much easier to ride on the road. Many of them even have kickstands. I rode a hybrid to commute on before I ever got a road bike. It worked just fine for what was a 12 mile commute.


I will not every be doing anything the requires a Mtn bike and I understand a hybrid is not that great for round trips of 200 miles.

I plan on using the same bike for utility use and going to a city 100 miles away. I do a ton of things where I am getting off the bike for 10 minutes but not leaving the bike. 

I am wanting a combination short trip commuter and century bike rolled into one but thinks a kick stand is worth the penalty.


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## jsidney (Aug 24, 2011)

I see that Surly says a kickstand will damage the chainstay on their bikes, are chains stays that fragile?

They also say that rear mount kick stands are worthless but I also see this.

Trek Bikes

It says it is very stable.

I am back to thinking I really need two bikes for two reasons. As a backup to each other and for two different uses.


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## AndrwSwitch (May 28, 2009)

I don't use a kick stand for the bike I ride laden either. I lean it against a wall.

But... a lot of cycle tourists use them. Bikes with panniers can behave abominably, so having them be stable and accessable from both sides is really handy.

Friends of mine who use them like Pletschers. Here's an article that talks about them a little.

Best Touring Bicycle Kickstands for Heavy Loaded Panniers and strongest Tour Bikes


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## jsidney (Aug 24, 2011)

AndrwSwitch said:


> I don't use a kick stand for the bike I ride laden either. I lean it against a wall.
> 
> But... a lot of cycle tourists use them. Bikes with panniers can behave abominably, so having them be stable and accessable from both sides is really handy.
> 
> ...


Thanks,

What about Surlys comments they will damage the chain stays? Is this a common problem with modern steel bikes?

On many days my day is filled with many 5 minute stops where I am not leaving the bike and there is not always a good place to lean a bike.


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## AndrwSwitch (May 28, 2009)

"Damage" is a subjective term.

I'd be concerned about a kickstand scuffing the paint. On a bike with thin-walled tubing, I could see someone whaling on the kick stand clamp actually damaging the tubing. But it seems a little farfetched.

A lot of purpose-built touring bikes actually have a plate for mounting a kick stand. From looking at some pics on Rivendell's site, it looks like there's at least some compatibility on frames without the plate for the same nice kick stands that go on frames with the plate. I'd say this is a good one to research, or ask about on the touring forum - my depth of experience is very shallow. I had a crappy kick stand on a bike I owned in NY that had the plate. I threw out the kick stand and was happy. But, I never put panniers on that bike.


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## PJ352 (Dec 5, 2007)

jsidney said:


> What about Surlys comments they will damage the chain stays?


Why not ask them directly?
Contact


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## jsidney (Aug 24, 2011)

PJ352 said:


> Why not ask them directly?
> Contact


They already commented on the issue.

Spew | Kickstands On Long Haul Truckers


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## jsidney (Aug 24, 2011)

I do have an 86 Trek 860 in route to me that does not have a kickstand.

I will see how I adjust to not having one. It seems many get along without them but when I google it there are many that want them on their utility bikes.


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## AndrwSwitch (May 28, 2009)

So on reading the Surly blog post, it doesn't sound like they say kickstands _will_ damage the chainstays. They say that people _have_ damaged the chainstays by torquing the clamp bolt too tightly.

There are a million bolts on a bike that can damage something if they're torqued enough.

I'm not going to say "don't worry about it." Because clearly you should. But I don't think you need to worry about it more than you worry about the clamp on your front derailleur, stem, etc.


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## jsidney (Aug 24, 2011)

AndrwSwitch said:


> So on reading the Surly blog post, it doesn't sound like they say kickstands _will_ damage the chainstays. They say that people _have_ damaged the chainstays by torquing the clamp bolt too tightly.
> 
> There are a million bolts on a bike that can damage something if they're torqued enough.
> 
> I'm not going to say "don't worry about it." Because clearly you should. But I don't think you need to worry about it more than you worry about the clamp on your front derailleur, stem, etc.


Thanks,

I was reading and someone said that the best mount was a kickstand plate.

I found that Rivendell still has them but their bikes I think will be pricy since those seem to be only frames.

Maybe I am just used to having one and will adapt to not having one like most people seem to. I will give being standless for awhile with the Trek 520 and see if I can live without one.


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## PJ352 (Dec 5, 2007)

jsidney said:


> They already commented on the issue.
> 
> Spew | Kickstands On Long Haul Truckers


Then why are you asking a question that they've already answered?


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## jsidney (Aug 24, 2011)

PJ352 said:


> Then why are you asking a question that they've already answered?


I was not actually asking if they would work on a Surly, I was mentioning they they commented it could damage the chain stays.

I was asking about kickstands before I saw that Surly. If it generated comments that this could damage many bikes that would have been good information for me. I don't know if this is true of all steel bikes or not but was surprised when I saw it.

I don't think it invalidates my question at all.


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## nhluhr (Sep 9, 2010)

jsidney said:


> I am starting to think I am wanting a utility bike that think that it is a road bike. When use the kick stand I am not walking away from the bike but am still with it.
> 
> I use one constantly. I think not having one will take a lot of getting used to.


Actually once you learn how to go without it, you'll wonder why you ever had one to begin with. It's a heavy, clunky, frame-damaging device that serves only one narrow purpose. Here's how I and thousands of others live without it:

Tire Lean - Rest the upper rear portion of the rear tire against something solid. This way, the rubber of the tire grips the surface and the bike is supported from a relatively stable point. Nothing touches your frame so no damage can be done. This is the fastest, easiest and most readily usable way to prop your bike without any devices or special circumstances.

















Post Jam - In places where you have a wide column but not enough space to do a tire lean, use the curve of the seat and the left pedal to cradle the column. Care must be taken to avoid scraping the frame on the surface.









Pedal Cam - in places where you have a low park bench, curb, cinder block, etc, you can cam the pedal in a rearward position atop the low surface in such a fashion that the leaning of the bike pushes against the pedal (freewheeling bikes must have the pedal to the rear like in this pic). Since the bike won't just move forward, the pedal won't turn and it makes a rigid thing to lean against. It's not super stable but it's elegant and quick when you don't have a taller surface to lean against. The stability is better when the low surface is just higher than the bottom bracket.









Stick It - sometimes you don't need to lean the bike at all, like these guys:

















3-point Lean - If you have fenders or the surface just isn't right for a normal tire lean, you can just use the trusty old 3-point lean where the tire, seat, and handlebar all contact a wall, fence, etc. It's really stable and super easy.









There's also the classic variation on the 3-point lean known as the "White Garage Door Photo Position". This requires all accessories removed from the bicycle, the chain in the big ring and middle cog, drive side pedal forward, your stem to be flipped down, and a white garage door:









Moreover, there is nothing wrong with laying your bike down on the non-drive side if you do it carefully. You may get some minor scuffs on the pedal and left bar tape but you'll get scuffs there anyway in normal use.


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## kbwh (May 28, 2010)

nhluhr said:


> There's also the classic variation on the 3-point lean known as the "White Garage Door Photo Position". This requires all accessories removed from the bicycle, the chain in the big ring and middle cog, drive side pedal forward, your stem to be flipped down, and a white garage door:


Thanks for the laugh.


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## squiddy (Oct 30, 2011)

Do people not use kickstands because they are afraid of being embarrassed? Just curious of biking culture is something of this sort.


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## ezrida (Aug 20, 2011)

I sometimes forget to take the visor off of my helmet when i ride, i guess that's embarrassing in roadie culture. oh well, silly mtb. :0)


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## mpre53 (Oct 25, 2011)

squiddy said:


> Do people not use kickstands because they are afraid of being embarrassed? Just curious of biking culture is something of this sort.


There really isn't a need for one. It's safer to lay the bike down. I've seen bikes go over in winds around 10 mph. And, where I live, a 10 mph wind is a "calm" day.

But, on the other hand, there's the "biking culture" aspect to it. Lots of lemmings in every sport.


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## PlatyPius (Feb 1, 2009)

I've seen what kickstands can/will do to the chainstays of a bike. On older thick steel, there usually isn't a problem. On a new lightweight steel, aluminum, or carbon, there's no way in hell I'd use a traditional kickstand.


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## kykr13 (Apr 12, 2008)

squiddy said:


> Do people not use kickstands because they are afraid of being embarrassed? Just curious of biking culture is something of this sort.


It's more a matter of other solutions being better on all counts. No kickstand = nothing to potentially damage chainstays, no extra weight and you didn't have to spend $20 to do it. And they're just not a very stable support either. Leaning it against something solid or laying it down on the left side (gears facing up) is a much better idea.


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## Drew Eckhardt (Nov 11, 2009)

> How do you guys stand up your bike without a kick stand?


Out side I lean it against and lock it to an immovable object (rack, railing, fence, parking meter, lamp post, gas meter, tree or signpost if none of those are convenient).

Inside I lean it against a convenient wall.


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## ctaborda (Nov 8, 2011)

I have mine racked on dip machine handles


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