# 11-speed freehub conversion and wheel dishing?



## jmess (Aug 24, 2006)

Would swapping out a DT-240S 10-speed freehub body with an 11-speed have any significant effect on the original wheel dishing? The wheels are Reynolds 32s which I assume have some asymmetrical dishing?


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## leopafe (Jun 14, 2010)

No re-dishing required. I have the 46 and asked Reynolds and was told all I'd need is to change the freehub body, what I did and the wheel is perfectly centred.


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## r1lee (Jul 22, 2012)

I think according to dtswiss a slight redish might be required. That's a *might*. I also know it wasnt required on the 46, giant pslr1 aero's and bontrager 3 d3.


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## bikerjulio (Jan 19, 2010)

The freehub has nothing to do with dish. 

Only a change to the axle that affects the centering of the wheel would require a change to the dish.


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## bdaghisallo1 (Sep 25, 2007)

DT Swiss 240s hubs that are swapped to Shimano 11sp bodies will be 0.5mm out of dish. Not much to worry about.


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## bikerjulio (Jan 19, 2010)

bdaghisallo1 said:


> DT Swiss 240s hubs that are swapped to Shimano 11sp bodies will be 0.5mm out of dish. Not much to worry about.
> 
> View attachment 286973


No. The drawing shows 2 different hubs.

Not the same hub with the freehub changed.


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## r1lee (Jul 22, 2012)

Here you go, off of a site but I can't believe them stating something that didn't come from dtswiss.

Bike24 - DT Swiss Conversion Kit 240s Road HG into Shimano 11-speed Rotor


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## bikerjulio (Jan 19, 2010)

r1lee said:


> Here you go, off of a site but I can't believe them stating something that didn't come from dtswiss.
> 
> Bike24 - DT Swiss Conversion Kit 240s Road HG into Shimano 11-speed Rotor


Thank you for confirming what I said. It's NOT the freehub but the end cap



> and the end cap needs to be replaced by the new 11 speed freehub body and end cap.


which also lengthens the axle by a mm on one side only and therefore affects the centering by 1/2 mm

Getting back to the OP question. I'd say that a wheel that's off center by only 1/2 a mm is within normal limits. Perhaps a very minor brake centering adjustment, but that it.

If, like me you like to build and maintain your own wheels - maybe. But otherwise I'd leave them alone.


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## bdaghisallo1 (Sep 25, 2007)

bikerjulio said:


> No. The drawing shows 2 different hubs.
> 
> Not the same hub with the freehub changed.



Hub 240s Classic on top and.... Hub 240s Classic on the bottom of the drawing. I see what you mean about different!!!!

You do realize that drawing shows the dimensional differences between the 240s shimano 10 and 11 setups? And do you realize that converting from 10 to 11 with the 240s is simply a matter of switching out the cassette body and the DS end cap? I have done it - have you? - and it results in the wheel you convert then being 0.5mm out of dish.


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## looigi (Nov 24, 2010)

bikerjulio said:


> No. The drawing shows 2 different hubs.
> 
> Not the same hub with the freehub changed.


Interesting that the axle length/dropout spacing is 131mm for the 11 speed hub that's illustrated. Is this a common adaptation?


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## bikerjulio (Jan 19, 2010)

bdaghisallo1 said:


> Hub 240s Classic on top and.... Hub 240s on the bottom of the drawing. I see what you mean about different!!!!
> 
> You do realize that drawing shows the dimensional differences between the 240s shimano 10 and 11 setups? And do you realize that converting from 10 to 11 with the 240s is simply a matter of switching out the cassette body and the DS end cap? I have done it - have you? - and it results in the wheel you convert then being 0.5mm out of dish.


That's what I said. The original question referred to the freehub only, which has no impact on dish. It's the change in endcap that results in the change in centering.


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## bikerjulio (Jan 19, 2010)

looigi said:


> Interesting that the axle length/dropout spacing is 131mm for the 11 speed hub that's illustrated. Is this a common adaptation?


When Shimano 11-spd came out, I remember mention that the spacing was going to 131mm. Shimano's hub design puts the DS flange a few mm further to the right than Campy's (a good thing for the rigidity of the wheel), but left them a mm short when trying to fit an 11-spd cassette.

Looks to me that Shimano is still referring to it as "130"mm spacing, but I think this now a nominal description.

Cannot find a Shimano drawing that shows this, just going from memory.


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## bdaghisallo1 (Sep 25, 2007)

bikerjulio said:


> That's what I said. The original question referred to the freehub only, which has no impact on dish. It's the change in endcap that results in the change in centering.


You do see that the 11sp body is 36.75mm wide and the 10sp is 34.95mm, right? If you simply change the body then the wheel will be further out of dish. DT created a narrower DS endcap to use with the wider 11sp body, along with moving to a 131mm OLD, to minimize the total dish error once the conversion is made.


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## bikerjulio (Jan 19, 2010)

bdaghisallo1 said:


> You do see that the 11sp body is 36.75mm wide and the 10sp is 34.95mm, right? If you simply change the body then the wheel will be further out of dish. DT created a narrower DS endcap to use with the wider 11sp body, along with moving to a 131mm OLD, to minimize the total dish error once the conversion is made.


Changing the freehub alone does nothing to the wheel.

When the longer 11-spd freehub is installed, a *longer* end cap goes with it to preserve the cassettes clearance to the dropout. If this were not done the lockring would bind in the dropout.

The drawing is misleading you. Imagine instead the drawing with the left ends together. The hub body then lines up, and the end of the freehub *and* the end of the axle move to the right.


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## multirider (Nov 5, 2007)

I'm not a wheel builder and am not looking at the impact of 11 spd on dish, but I have a related question that hopefully will be easy to answer. I own many sets of wheels including some Enves. All are >2 years old. If I wanted to convert to 11 speed, can I simply swap the freehub (aka cassette carrier?) and put 11spd shifters + 11 speed cassette on it and it will work? Is the freehub the same width but the cogs are narrower? Or is the freehub wider and won't fit on my current rear wheels?

Basic question is: will switching to 11spd will make all my current rear wheels obsolete?


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## bikerjulio (Jan 19, 2010)

Shimano does need a longer freehub to go to 11. And that in turn means that the solution may need to be similar to DT Swiss here, who supply a longer end cap. I suspect that with some generic hubs it might be possible with just a freehub swap. How easy that is depends on the hub design you have.


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## r1lee (Jul 22, 2012)

bikerjulio said:


> Thank you for confirming what I said. It's NOT the freehub but the end caps


So can you use the old end caps? Cause if you are FORCED to use the new end caps then changing to the 11 sod freehub will throw the wheel out of dish. Even though you are specifically stating it's the end cap, the idea is that it's the upgrade as a whole.


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## MerlinAma (Oct 11, 2005)

I switched two set sets of 240 hubs to 11 speed. Popped the end cap off, replaced the freehub body, and put the cap back on. 

Since I was putting on a new 11 speed cassette and derailleur I had to adjust everything, of course, but I did not have to redish the wheel for it to all work quite well.


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## bikerjulio (Jan 19, 2010)

r1lee said:


> So can you use the old end caps? Cause if you are FORCED to use the new end caps then changing to the 11 sod freehub will throw the wheel out of dish. Even though you are specifically stating it's the end cap, the idea is that it's the upgrade as a whole.


It's the endcap that makes the difference, and it's needed - but the change to centering the wheel is very small - 1/2 a mm. In most cases it won't matter, and no other work would be needed.


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## Sven_Nijs (Jul 14, 2011)

r1lee said:


> I think according to dtswiss a slight redish might be required. That's a *might*. I also know it wasnt required on the 46, *giant pslr1 aero's* and bontrager 3 d3.


Further Q on that point. Do you know if it is possible to convert other Giant wheels via the DT 11spd freehub swap (in my particular case Giant P-SL1)?


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## cannonf600 (Nov 9, 2008)

Did you use this on the Bontrager 3 d3?DT Swiss 240 Freehub Body Shimano 11 Speed I read on a review that when he converted a 3 d3 he had to redish 1.3 mm.


r1lee said:


> I think according to dtswiss a slight redish might be required. That's a *might*. I also know it wasnt required on the 46, giant pslr1 aero's and bontrager 3 d3.


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## cannonf600 (Nov 9, 2008)

How do you know if you have to redish after a conversion?I have a brand new Bontrager aeolus 3 d3 that i am converting.End cap rubs dropout,rear derailleur hitting spokes etc?I just did a set of Industry I25's by changing the end cap and freehub body and a slight derailleur cable adjustment and a center the rear brake was all that was needed.On a note if you look at the back wheel it is no longer in the center between the chain stays it sits noticeably closer to the non drive side but I don't see a problem with that.


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## JCavilia (Sep 12, 2005)

> How do you know if you have to redish after a conversion?





> if you look at the back wheel it is no longer in the center between the chain stays it sits noticeably closer to the non drive side


That's how you know.



> but I don't see a problem with that


Most people do.


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## cannonf600 (Nov 9, 2008)

Thanks, looks like I answered my own question.LBS said $15.00 to redish so i'll just have them do both not worth any problems this could cause.


JCavilia said:


> That's how you know.
> 
> 
> Most people do.


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## bikerjulio (Jan 19, 2010)

If the wheel is noticeably off center after conversion, then I'd suggest it was off centre before as well.

Adding 1mm to the DS axle moves the centreline of the wheel 1/2mm to the left.

I suggest we all go look at our rulers and study how small a dimension 0.5mm is.

In imperial terms it's 2/100".


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## benmills (May 13, 2014)

bikerjulio said:


> Thank you for confirming what I said. It's NOT the freehub but the end cap
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Does anybody know if the same applies to the disc versions of DT Swiss hubs? I just bought a DT Swiss 350 ISO Disc and it comes with a 10 speed freehub (which surprised me). Seems like I can buy an 11 speed road freehub, but it's not clear if it would work. I wonder if it would increase the spacing from 135mm to 136mm in a similar way to the non disc hubs.


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## ergott (Feb 26, 2006)

I've converted 10 speed 135mm disc rear hubs to 11 speed. Same as road, rotor and endcap.


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## benmills (May 13, 2014)

ergott said:


> I've converted 10 speed 135mm disc rear hubs to 11 speed. Same as road, rotor and endcap.


Thanks! At least I know I can convert if/when I buy an 11 speed group set. It's a little annoying I have to pay another $90 instead of it coming 11 speed ready, but I guess they still see it as an MTB hub rather than a possible road disc hub.

I'm kinda tempted to return it and upgrade to a White Industries CLD.


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## Enoch562 (May 13, 2010)

I converted a 240 10 speed to 11 speed road by purchasing a Freehub and installing a pedal washer behind the drive side end cap. It gave it just enough clearance to miss the lockring of the cassette and frame. I gues mine is spaced to 131 now. I have since bought the correct caps, but I have not found any reason to install them yet. I measured the dish and it was off a little, but it was so little, it was not worth moving 28 spokes.


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## benmills (May 13, 2014)

I thought the new end cap comes with the 11 speed freehub for some reason.

To be honest, it sounds less than optimal for a high level hub. It's nice they have an option to convert old 10 speed hubs, but you'd think they would have a new design going forward that moves the drive side flange in a little to create room for the longer freehub.




Enoch562 said:


> I converted a 240 10 speed to 11 speed road by purchasing a Freehub and installing a pedal washer behind the drive side end cap. It gave it just enough clearance to miss the lockring of the cassette and frame. I gues mine is spaced to 131 now. I have since bought the correct caps, but I have not found any reason to install them yet.


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## bikerjulio (Jan 19, 2010)

> To be honest, it sounds less than optimal for a high level hub. It's nice they have an option to convert old 10 speed hubs, but you'd think they would have a new design going forward that moves the drive side flange in a little to create room for the longer freehub.


Like Campagnolo in 1999. Mavic too.


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