# CTL that suggests that "base training" is completed



## hrumpole (Jun 17, 2008)

As I think about planning the next season (as this one turned out to be a bit of a bust due to injury), what is a CTL that a beginning racer (with no aspirations other than a win at the shop ride paris roubaix) might shoot for by the end of the base period? Or does it just vary too much to be even able to answer that question?


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## Wookiebiker (Sep 5, 2005)

It varies way to much from individual to individual.

I know guys on my team that do very well in stage races with a CTL in the upper 60's...where as I don't even start to do well until I'm in the low 100's. I've read top Tour pro's are in the upper 100's (i.e. around 190) before a Grand Tour.

Most people will fall somewhere between 50 and 100 for general riding/racing...what that number is for you, only time will tell and that's after using power to train for two to three seasons.


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## woodys737 (Dec 31, 2005)

Wookiebiker said:


> It varies way to much from individual to individual.
> 
> I know guys on my team that do very well in stage races with a CTL in the upper 60's...where as I don't even start to do well until I'm in the low 100's. I've read top Tour pro's are in the upper 100's (i.e. around 190) before a Grand Tour.
> 
> Most people will fall somewhere between 50 and 100 for general riding/racing...what that number is for you, only time will tell and that's after using power to train for two to three seasons.


Further, CTL is variable from rider to rider because it's a function of TSS. FTP being a part of TSS therefore affects CTL on an individual basis.


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## vetboy (Oct 11, 2005)

woodys737 said:


> Further, CTL is variable from rider to rider because it's a function of TSS. FTP being a part of TSS therefore affects CTL on an individual basis.



Not sure I agree. TSS (and therefore CTL since it's just TSS/day averaged over the last 42 days) is designed to be directly comparable from rider to rider. In other words, a 150 TSS ride should have the same physiological impact on you and I, even thought we may be riding at very different absolute power numbers. 

For example, if your FTP is 200W and mine is 400W (I wish!) and we each did a 1 hour all-out effort, we would both get a 100 TSS score (by definition, 1 hour at FTP gets a TSS of 100) and the impact on our CTL would be the same. If we each did that all-out 1 hour effort every day for 42 days, we would each have a CTL of 100, even though our absolute power #'s would look very different.

Joe


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## asgelle (Apr 21, 2003)

vetboy said:


> (and therefore CTL since it's just TSS/day averaged over the last 42 days)


CTL is not a simple average over 42 days. It is the exponentially weighted average of all previous rides. A suggested (and default, in some applications) time constant in the exponential weighting is 42 days, but it doesn't have to be so. 

To the OP, CTL is a measure of training volume. It says nothing about the effectiveness of that training. Just as a set number of training miles or hours can have very different effects on an individual depending on the composition of that training, the same CTL can result in very different levels of fitness depending on how the CTL was achieved. 

It seems to me, deciding to change the focus of training would depend on the rate of progression under the current plan, the physiological requirements for upcomming events, the athletes strengths and weaknesses, and the time remaining until the first goal event.


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## vetboy (Oct 11, 2005)

asgelle said:


> CTL is not a simple average over 42 days. It is the exponentially weighted average of all previous rides. A suggested (and default, in some applications) time constant in the exponential weighting is 42 days, but it doesn't have to be so.


Fair enough - was keeping it simple for my explanation. People intuitively understand the term "average", but to say "exponentially weighted moving average" is not so intuitive. Point being, it takes you about the same physiological effort to reach a CTL of 60 as it takes me, regardless of our respective FTP.

Joe


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## Alex_Simmons/RST (Jan 12, 2008)

Wookiebiker said:


> It varies way to much from individual to individual.


Yes, although before about 70 TSS/day, training is still fairly general aerobic conditioning in nature for most racers. You still do bits of everything, just the emphasis is on improving general condition.

For many racers they would never fall below 70.



Wookiebiker said:


> I've read top Tour pro's are in the upper 100's (i.e. around 190) before a Grand Tour.


Not likely. They _might_ push ATLs up into that level for short periods but not CTL. And not right before a GT. If they are quoting such numbers, then their FTP is set too low.



Wookiebiker said:


> Most people will fall somewhere between 50 and 100 for general riding/racing...what that number is for you, only time will tell and that's after using power to train for two to three seasons.


The racing sweet spot for most is from 80-120 TSS/day.

Certainly below 80 and you are not giving yourself a chance to develop your potential. Now it might be that rest of life means reaching such a CTL is not feasible, and so you do what you can with what you've got time and recovery wise.


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## pagey (Oct 30, 2009)

I have read in a few places the theory of 80+ TSS per day which based on 7 days would be circa 560 per week. However if you say only ride 4 days a week do you still shoot for the weekly total or just aim for 80 TSS per day?


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## Alex_Simmons/RST (Jan 12, 2008)

pagey said:


> I have read in a few places the theory of 80+ TSS per day which based on 7 days would be circa 560 per week. However if you say only ride 4 days a week do you still shoot for the weekly total or just aim for 80 TSS per day?


Not that CTL should be our primary target, but you'd need to do more than 560 TSS/week to rise to a CTL of 80 TSS/day within a sensible time frame. If you only did 560 TSS/week, you'd get to 80 eventually, but only after 5-6 months of training at that weekly TSS (well technically you'd never really ever get there).

e.g. 

if you started with a CTL of 40 and then did 560 TSS/week, your weekly CTL would rise as follows:
Week____CTL
_1_______40.0
_2_______46.7 (+6.7)
_3_______52.2 (+5.6)
_4_______56.9 (+4.6)
_5_______60.7 (+3.9)
_6_______63.9 (+3.2)
_7_______66.6 (+2.7)
_8_______68.8 (+2.2)
_9_______70.7 (+1.9)
_10______72.2 (+1.6)
_11______73.5 (+1.3)
_12______74.6 (+1.1)
_13______75.5 (+0.9)

As you can see, the addition to CTL from a fixed TSS diminishes each week as CTL rises. It would approach 80 but take a long time to get close.


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## pagey (Oct 30, 2009)

Thanks Alex

Given that most of us mortals don't ride every day, do we aim for a weekly total TSS or work to a minimum TSS per session?


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## Alex_Simmons/RST (Jan 12, 2008)

pagey said:


> Thanks Alex
> 
> Given that most of us mortals don't ride every day, do we aim for a weekly total TSS or work to a minimum TSS per session?


er, it might be both.
can't answer a specific question with general advice I'm afraid.
just get enough weekly TSS, with sufficient specificity considering your timing constraints.


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