# Female Fitting Challenge



## Duane Behrens

The rider: 5'3" 130 lbs. Fit, smart, and incidentally pretty. I'm lucky to have her as a wife.

The bike: A 2009 Specialized carbon-fiber Roubaix. 49cm. Professionally fitted to her at the LBS. And she does indeed find the fit to be perfect. Up to about 30 miles whereupon she gets that expression of slight discomfort, an expression that begins to override all else by 40 miles. At 50 miles, she is effing DONE with it! 

We tried an aftermarket seat; a Specialized Gel Lithia (sp). But I don't think it added much to her range. So I'm looking to replace it again, but would like to do so more intelligently this time. Is there a way to measure her seat bones and/or the seat bone support on her bike to come up with a more comfortable fit? And is there any way I would NOT enjoy the measuring effort?


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## giro_man

To measure sit bone see

How to Measure Sit Bone Width For Bicycle Saddle Selection - YouTube


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## tlg

Duane Behrens said:


> Professionally fitted to her at the LBS.


 Just because she was "professionally" fitted, doesn't mean the fit is right. There could still be tweaking involved. And some "pros" are idiots.



> And she does indeed find the fit to be perfect. Up to about 30 miles whereupon she gets that expression of slight discomfort, an expression that begins to override all else by 40 miles. At 50 miles, she is effing DONE with it!


How much riding does/has she done? If she generally only rides 30mi and under, then the jump to 40/50 may be too much. She may just need more miles under her butt. 

Is she wearing cycling shorts?

Sometimes padded/gel saddles are worse than a firmer saddle because you squish more into the seat and creates chaffing.


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## love4himies

Is it an issue with her saddle or her shorts? Has she tried different brands of shorts with different chamois? Some have minimal, but dense foam, which is much more comfortable than the thicker, less dense. 

Will your LBS let her try some and return it if it causes pain?

I use the lady selle italia SLK and love it. 

Selle Italia SLK Lady Gel Flow Saddle Reviews - Mtbr.com


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## headloss

One benefit of a Specialized saddle is that they *usually* measure for saddle fit... if they didn't, I'd go back where you bought the saddle and make sure that it fits according to Specialized's method. 

It could be that she needs a different brand saddle or it could be that she needs a different width saddle...

It's also possible that she just needs to get used to riding 40 miles, our butts need to learn to adjust a little bit too.


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## il sogno

Can you go back to the fitter at the LBS and have him/her address this problem?


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## Duane Behrens

il sogno said:


> Can you go back to the fitter at the LBS and have him/her address this problem?


Unfortunately, the proprietor of our local bike shop died of an apparent heart attack while riding near Malibu last year. The bike shop has been closed since then. T

There have been some good tips here. The one I like the most is "She needs to ride more!"


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## headloss

What size tires is she using? What pressure are they at? Does she remain seated over bumps in the road? Those things contribute as well...

It's not just that she needs to ride more, she may need to ride smarter as well.


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## Duane Behrens

headloss said:


> What size tires is she using? What pressure are they at? Does she remain seated over bumps in the road? Those things contribute as well...
> 
> It's not just that she needs to ride more, she may need to ride smarter as well.


105-110 psi rear, 100-105 psi front. She does tend to simply ride over bumps, while I tend to rise up and use my knees as shock absorbers. Will work on that with her. Thanks.


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## headloss

Food for thought, in order to get across to her... I know people who have broken saddles because they don't rise up a bit, it's a lot of pressure on the sit bones and definitely better to use your leg muscles to absorb the shock.

Pressure sounds high as well, especially for a 130# recreational rider. I'd at least drop down to 90, maybe lower (as low as possible, just not so low as to cause a pinch flat). If she's riding 100#+ and also on 23mm, you'll probably have more luck swapping out the tires to a 28mm running around 85# than you will changing saddles (assuming that there isn't a fit and/or saddle fit issue).

Good luck!



Duane Behrens said:


> 105-110 psi rear, 100-105 psi front. She does tend to simply ride over bumps, while I tend to rise up and use my knees as shock absorbers. Will work on that with her. Thanks.


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## AvantDale

Longshot...but bars too high? I see alot of women that ride with their bars really high. That alone can put more pressure on the lower back and sit bones. Also she needs to stand up more...if she doesn't already. Sometimes it can also be related to how and where they put their sit bones. Posture...if your back is sagging or rounded. That will affect how the pelvis is rotated.

MY GF pretty much sits through everything. I've been trying to get her to stand up more. She is currently on the Specialized Oura saddle.


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## kbiker3111

Chamois butter


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## Alfonsina

She should do her own research really (point her to Team Estrogen forums), maybe she really doesn't want to ride a long way?


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## Duane Behrens

headloss said:


> Food for thought, in order to get across to her... I know people who have broken saddles because they don't rise up a bit, it's a lot of pressure on the sit bones and definitely better to use your leg muscles to absorb the shock.
> 
> Pressure sounds high as well, especially for a 130# recreational rider. I'd at least drop down to 90, maybe lower (as low as possible, just not so low as to cause a pinch flat). If she's riding 100#+ and also on 23mm, you'll probably have more luck swapping out the tires to a 28mm running around 85# than you will changing saddles (assuming that there isn't a fit and/or saddle fit issue).
> 
> Good luck!


She was angry when I related my statement that she doesn't rise up on the bars over bumps. "I do SO too!" Love the British accent. She wants to try better shorts/chamois first. Says she likes the current seat. We'll see. Thanks, guys.


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## headloss

Duane Behrens said:


> She was angry when I related my statement that she doesn't rise up on the bars over bumps. "I do SO too!" Love the British accent. She wants to try better shorts/chamois first. Says she likes the current seat. We'll see. Thanks, guys.
> 
> View attachment 292681


Great looking couple!


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## love4himies

Nice picture of the two of you. 

One thing I never compromise on is shorts. A not so great chamois is OK for short rides, but after 40km, it can become quite uncomfortable.


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## bradkay

"Is it an issue with her saddle or her shorts? Has she tried different brands of shorts with different chamois? Some have minimal, but dense foam, which is much more comfortable than the thicker, less dense. 

Will your LBS let her try some and return it if it causes pain?"

Ummm.... this is a situation similar to underwear or swimsuits. Would you buy a pair of shorts that someone else had ridden in? For women especially this is a big issue. 

I would also suggest moving up to as large a width tire as the bike is capable of handling. The other suggestion I would make is to be sure that the saddle is designed for the riding position (some saddles are for more aggressive positions, some are more for relaxed positions).


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## Jwiffle

I agree with headloss, tire pressure is way too high for her. I'm 155, and I run 75-80 in the front, 80-85 in the rear. (Currently running tubeless, when I had a tubed wheel, I ran 80-85 front, 85-90 rear).


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## Duane Behrens

Jwiffle said:


> I agree with headloss, tire pressure is way too high for her. I'm 155, and I run 75-80 in the front, 80-85 in the rear. (Currently running tubeless, when I had a tubed wheel, I ran 80-85 front, 85-90 rear).


That's interesting. The lettering on the tire says, "Recommended pressure 125 psi." I run hers (and mine) at about 100 front, 110 rear; about 20% below recommended. 80-85 might be a bit more comfortable, but I'd worry about a pinch flat.


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## rm -rf

One thing she could try right now is to stand up on the pedals regularly. I kind of forget to do it enough. 

It took me a while to find a good saddle for me. I ended up getting a much narrower saddle than I expected would work. But it took some test riding on different saddle shapes.

*Some stores have saddle test programs.*

One of the local stores has a set of Fizik test saddles (they are bright orange, with a big logo) So riders can try out a range of styles.

Another store has their own test program, with a wall full of saddles. For $20 testing fee, I tried 4 or 5 different saddles overnight, one at a time, within 3 or 4 weeks. The $20 would be applied to a purchase, but I ended up getting a different saddle later in the year from another store.

I sat on the Specialized tester. It's a piece of memory foam, so you see the depressions after you get up. It showed I fit the medium width, but it turned out that the narrow one works for me.

~~~~
*Tire pressures *

I don't think tire pressure will solve her saddle problem. But correct pressures really help on rough roads. She could try 90 psi front, 100 psi rear on 23c tires. And supple tires, like Continental GP4000 have more flex to absorb small bumps. The ride difference with good tires and corrected lower pressures is huge.

I weigh 170 lbs, and I run 95 psi front, 105-110 rear on 23c tires. The only pinch flat I got was from slamming into a sharp edged water valve casing, with a pothole in front. And now I'm using 25c, with 85-90 psi front, 100-105 rear. Comfy on rough roads, but just as fast as the 23c.


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## Camilo

Jwiffle said:


> I agree with headloss, tire pressure is way too high for her. I'm 155, and I run 75-80 in the front, 80-85 in the rear. (Currently running tubeless, when I had a tubed wheel, I ran 80-85 front, 85-90 rear).





Duane Behrens said:


> That's interesting. The lettering on the tire says, "Recommended pressure 125 psi." I run hers (and mine) at about 100 front, 110 rear; about 20% below recommended. 80-85 might be a bit more comfortable, but I'd worry about a pinch flat.


I've been working with my wife to get her more comfortable as her endurance and enjoyment of the rides increases, here's what she's found to help.

Tire pressure lower - Optimal tire pressure is based on the weight of the load, just like cars. It's a mistake to use the sidewall as a guide. Notice they don't even have sidewall tire pressures on a lot of passenger tires anymore, and the vehicle manufacturer gives pressure ranges for that particular vehicle.

There are various online guides, including tire manufacturer's websites. But as just another "FWIW", I'm 165 and I run 23mm tires at about 105 rear and 90-95 front. I haven't had a pinch flat in 5 years since I started actually paying attention to tire pressure and lowered it based on whatever guide I happened to use at the time. 

Aside from tires, my guess is that if she can go 30 miles comfortably, she doesn't have a serious problem with the saddle or fit and just needs to both increase endurance through riding and also to learn to increase her "comfort endurance" with some basic riding habits. Others have mentioned being "lighter" on the saddle going over bumps and getting off the saddle fairly frequently. I stand up and get the blood circulating in my butt whenever it feels the slightest discomfort - I'm thinking every 30 minutes or so. It also gets me to move, shrug, relax, etc. my back, hips, shoulders, arms, neck, etc. 

If she's sitting in one position for 30, 40, 50 miles without a lot of movement, that could be the problem. Good luck, it's worth it.


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## Red90

It might be a dumb thing to ask... but does she know where to sit? I say that because I didn't know where to properly sit when I started cycling. I started out having my ass too close to the nose and put a lot of pressure on my sensitive nerves down there. I started adjusting the nose angle of the seat to point it down to relieve the pressure. Although this seemed reasonable, it was actually counter productive. It made my butt slide even more to to the front. It wasn't till I went in the opposite direction and tilted the nose up did I then feel my sit bones resting comfortably on the seat and not sliding forward. Needless to say with my butt properly supported at the back and my nerves nicely in the slot in the seat, I didn't have any more issues. In actuality the seat is now just perfectly level as I now know where to sit.


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## davecm203

There is a lot of good advice above. But it could be one simple thing. If she is new to cycling, she may just have to get used to it and sort of build up a tolerance. She may also want to move a bit on the saddle from time to time as well as stand. I know after my long break from cycling, my butt had to get used to it all over again.


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## prome

One thing I haven't seen discussed here at all is the type of discomfort she's experiencing. Is it pressure? Is it friction? Is it muscle fatigue? Is it on the bones or on soft tissue? All of these factors make a big difference in how to suggest things that might alleviate the situation, and the responses to several of them are totally opposite.


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## Duane Behrens

Red90 said:


> It might be a dumb thing to ask... but does she know where to sit? I say that because I didn't know where to properly sit when I started cycling. I started out having my ass too close to the nose and put a lot of pressure on my sensitive nerves down there. I started adjusting the nose angle of the seat to point it down to relieve the pressure. Although this seemed reasonable, it was actually counter productive. It made my butt slide even more to to the front. It wasn't till I went in the opposite direction and tilted the nose up did I then feel my sit bones resting comfortably on the seat and not sliding forward. Needless to say with my butt properly supported at the back and my nerves nicely in the slot in the seat, I didn't have any more issues. In actuality the seat is now just perfectly level as I now know where to sit.


Good advice. I'll check her seat again (always a pleasure), and may cant the front up just a wee bit more. We'll see. 

To the question, "which part of her is hurting?", the answer is her lady parts ("sensitive nerves"), not the sit bones. Thanks.


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## rva222

This has been a very informative thread for me to read. I have the same problem. I've basically been numb in the "lady parts" for going on 4 days post a 10 MILE RIDE!!! So yeah, I've got some adjusting and some learning to do. I did buy a new seat that has a cut out and I'm trying to sit further back because I think I was on the nose a bit too much. Good luck to your wife, I feel her pain! Or rather...I don't feel it, since I'm numb.


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## Duane Behrens

rva222 said:


> This has been a very informative thread for me to read. I have the same problem. I've basically been numb in the "lady parts" for going on 4 days post a 10 MILE RIDE!!! So yeah, I've got some adjusting and some learning to do. I did buy a new seat that has a cut out and I'm trying to sit further back because I think I was on the nose a bit too much. Good luck to your wife, I feel her pain! Or rather...I don't feel it, since I'm numb.


I'm so sorry. Suggest you read "Red90's" advice on the previous page. My guess is that, with any seat you choose, you'll want to be sure your sensitive-nerve-area is positioned above the slot in the seat. . . and leveling the seat (usually canting the front upward and the back downward to at least a level position) may also do wonders. 

To the others who suggested she simply needs more time in the saddle, you're also correct. I manage to get out on my bike most days while she tends to ride around 60 miles but on weekends only. 

Thanks. Good stuff.


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## Duane Behrens

Well. Jane's new saddle came in. 

She'd been riding on a Size 143, Specialized Lithia Gel Body Geometry (lots of words, I know) saddle. And as noted above, she experienced pain and numbness on longer rides. Last week, I ordered her a new saddle - same brand and model - but this time in the 155 size. It seems to have helped tremendously. After this morning's ride I asked, "How's your bottom?" ["Bottom" is Brit-speak for soft female nerve tissue. DB] She thought a moment then exclaimed, "Gosh, I haven't even thought about it - so I guess it's a lot better!" Wonderful news! 

The interesting thing is that, without bringing the bike in, we'd noted the problem to the LBS some weeks ago. They had Jane sit on a pad designed to measure her seat bone width. That machine suggested that the 143 size was the appropriate width. They ordered that seat and the next wider size as well, the 155; told her she could try them both and bring back the one that didn't fit. 

Well, when we got home I was surprised to see she was ALREADY riding on the 143 size. We called the shop and let them know. I offer this up just as a tip for those of you who have used that tool . . . you may want to opt for the next wider version. DB


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## velodog

Duane Behrens said:


> That's interesting. The lettering on the tire says, "Recommended pressure 125 psi." I run hers (and mine) at about 100 front, 110 rear; about 20% below recommended. 80-85 might be a bit more comfortable, but I'd worry about a pinch flat.


Shux, I'm 185lbs and been running about 95 rear, 90 front, on my gauge, with 23mm tires.

So far so good.


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## headloss

Duane Behrens said:


> The interesting thing is that, without bringing the bike in, we'd noted the problem to the LBS some weeks ago. They had Jane sit on a pad designed to measure her seat bone width. That machine suggested that the 143 size was the appropriate width. They ordered that seat and the next wider size as well, the 155; told her she could try them both and bring back the one that didn't fit.


I think it's unfortunate that these "comfort" issues are much too common. I didn't mention this before, but my gf has been having similar issues and i've also been working through the advice in this thread and elsewhere trying to help her adjust. The biggest breakthrough for me, so far, was letting her ride my winter bike, where it was obvious that the change in geometry was beneficial; she also noted that my (wider in this case) men's saddle was more comfortable... but I digress. 

I have learned one thing since my last posting in this thread, and it follows what you are saying regarding 143mm being the "right size." I've been reading through a lot of women-specific forums on the topic of saddle discomfort and what I realized is that the width is not an independent and constant factor. It's not constant at all, in fact, saddle width is variable for the same person... it's dependent on the angle of the torso to the bike. The more upright a person sits, the wider the saddle needs to be. 

So, 143mm might be the appropriate size, when leaning forward in a more aerodynamic race-y sort of posture. But when you are just cruising along at 10mph on a crushed gravel trail, it doesn't support the sitbones at a now more-upright position.


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