# Giant Defy Advanced Fit - Just wanna make Sure I'm Seeing Correctly



## MRM1

After riding a 54 Tarmac (to low and racy), 54 Roubaix (good fit with stem up), 56 Synapse (to long), 54 and 56 Felt F5 (both to low and race), and a CR1 (OK), I had brought my search for a new bike down to the Giant Defy Advanced 3 Compact. Rode one today, but here is my Question.

When I called the shop, they said they had the M and the M/L. But when I arrived they said the M was sold. All of my research and reading both on Giants site and here pointed my to the M and not the M/L but the shop kept trying to tell me the M/L was the right bike for me. That I was too big for the M. I rode a M/L in the Advanced 3 and a M in the Defy 1. They really did not feel that much different at first, but after switching back and forth 3 times and adjusting each bike with slight different set ups each time, I felt the M/L was too. large - seat was pushed way forward - and I was reaching too much IMO. AND in the back of my head I went in thinking the Giant site says I should be on a M and that is what I found reading here on RBR

So I just wanna make sure. The shop told me they could get me a M by Friday for the same deal, but before I commit just wanted to run it by the RBR community. The shop seemed to be trying to push me on a M/L because that is what they had. 

Here is my size Info (from Wrench Science data):
Ht: ....................... .5' 8.5" (no shoes)
Inseam: ............... 33"
Sternum Notch: ... 57.25"
Arm: .................... 25 (from arm pit touching rib to base of thumb) 
Flexibility: ............. 2/3 (I can touch my mid shins - not my toes - so limited)

My riding style: I don't want to race, I just want to be comfortable and efficient on the bike. Seems with my limited flexibility I need to ride with bars level or slightly (1/2") above the saddle. My present bike is a Felt Z100 56". The top tube of my Felt Z100 and the M/L Giant are the same. But I often feel too stretched on my present bike and so I have the bars up pretty hi, short stem, with a lot of rise. 

Any thoughts for sizing me to a Defy Advanced 3. M or M / L?


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## MRM1

Well here is something I have never seen before. Giant's Compact Road Design Sizing Chart (accessed by clicking the icon on the Advanced 3 page) IS WRONG to the frame geometry of the Advanced.

The Advanced Geo chart has the M at a 54.5 TT and the Size Chart says a M is 55.5 TT. The M / L on the Advanced Geo chart is 56.0 , but on the Size Chart it is 57.0. What gives? Is one Effective TT and the other Actual TT?

If they are measuring the same, and the Advanced Geo chart is correct, this pushes the sizing down ... so maybe my shop is correct, Maybe I would fit on a M / L and a M would be too small.


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## Rob

I'm no expert here but I would hold out for the M. I'm a bit bigger than you at 6' 0 and 34.25" inseam and the M/L felt best to me when I checked them out a few days ago. I think there were even stickers on the bikes that said size M is for 5"6" to 5'9" and M/L is for 5'9"-6"0" or some such. Now I know that these are just general guidelines, but also your inseam x .65 (the traditional starting point for choosing a frame size) gives about 54.5 cm which is about where the M size is (when you compare with other manufacturers' numbers - top tube length, standover height, etc.). The M/L is more like other manufacturers' 56 cm bikes. I would try the M and if it seems definitely too small, then see about the M/L. By the way, I also fit well on a 56 cm Synapse and 56 cm CR1.


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## Rob

MRM1 said:


> Well here is something I have never seen before. Giant's Compact Road Design Sizing Chart (accessed by clicking the icon on the Advanced 3 page) IS WRONG to the frame geometry of the Advanced.
> 
> The Advanced Geo chart has the M at a 54.5 TT and the Size Chart says a M is 55.5 TT. The M / L on the Advanced Geo chart is 56.0 , but on the Size Chart it is 57.0. What gives? Is one Effective TT and the other Actual TT?
> 
> If they are measuring the same, and the Advanced Geo chart is correct, this pushes the sizing down ... so maybe my shop is correct, Maybe I would fit on a M / L and a M would be too small.


Yeah, that doesn't make any sense. It also says rider height 5'10"- 6'0" for M/L which makes the M/L seem too big for you. Sometimes you have to throw the manufacturer's numbers away and go by what feels best.


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## willieboy

I'm 5'9" and ride a Defy Advanced 1 in a Medium. Inseem is 30". Perfect fit for me


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## sherlock

Go with your gut, especially if the seat is as far forward as you say.

On a different note: did you try the Felt Z5? Has a more relaxed geometry than the F5.


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## MRM1

FWIW, the Geometry of the Specy Roubaix 54 and the Defy Advanced M are very close in size. I rode a Defy 1 in Medium and it felt OK. The Roubaix in a 54 was a very nice fit, but the price tag was too hi and the bike was noisy. 

Here they are all laid out side by side. My current bike is the Felt Z100. Yellow is the bikes I have ridden, BUT I did get to ride a Defy 1 in the M which is the same geo as the Advanced ... or real close.


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## MRM1

willieboy said:


> I'm 5'9" and ride a Defy Advanced 1 in a Medium. Inseem is 30". Perfect fit for me


Is that inseam your pants inseam or the "shoe-off-book-in-the-crotch" measurement. The later will add about 2" to the former.


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## MRM1

Let me shorten and simplify my "book" of an opening statement in Post #1.

Is it better to have a smaller bike with shorter TT and a longer stem .... or a taller bike and longer TT with a shorter stem? 

Do you want your weight more on the rear wheel or more toward the front?


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## MRM1

sherlock said:


> Go with your gut, especially if the seat is as far forward as you say.
> 
> On a different note: did you try the Felt Z5? Has a more relaxed geometry than the F5.


I ride a Z100 now ... which I think is the same or close to same as a Z5. The F series is way to racy for me. The bars are way too dropped.


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## sherlock

Do you like your Z100? Plenty of people who don't like the feel of the F-series love the Z's.


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## MRM1

I really like the Z, but it is heavy Alu. It is not even the double butted stuff of the upper models. It gives me the sense that no matter how much I upgrade it will never be sub 20. I put Neuvation wheels on it and that dropped it 11 oz. I put a carbon seat post and comp seat and that dropped it 13 oz. And still it weighs about 23 + with bottle cages and pedals.

The Geo though fits me very well. I was considering the Z5 but I really do not like the White / Red color. The Z4 is drop dead purdy in Black / Blue, but way over my budget. So far the bikesI have found that are similar to the Z, with perhaps different characteristics are the Roubaix and the Defy


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## sherlock

MRM1 said:


> The Geo though fits me very well. I was considering the Z5 but I really do not like the White / Red color. The Z4 is drop dead purdy in Black / Blue, but way over my budget. So far the bikesI have found that are similar to the Z, with perhaps different characteristics are the Roubaix and the Defy


New Z-series (2012) models hit next week (new website goes up on the 1st). I've only seen some of the new F-series colors, but if you're not a fan of the white/red*, then it might pay to wait a few days.

* I didn't like the white/red on the F3 until I saw it in person. Not sure if you've seen the Z5 up close and personal?


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## MRM1

sherlock said:


> New Z-series (2012) models hit next week (new website goes up on the 1st). I've only seen some of the new F-series colors, but if you're not a fan of the white/red*, then it might pay to wait a few days.
> 
> * I didn't like the white/red on the F3 until I saw it in person. Not sure if you've seen the Z5 up close and personal?


Not seen the Z5 up close, but looked at lots of real pics. Rode the Z6 too ... but that Black / Orange is just Butt Ugly IMO. LoL !!


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## willieboy

MRM1 said:


> Is that inseam your pants inseam or the "shoe-off-book-in-the-crotch" measurement. The later will add about 2" to the former.


Shoe-off-book-in-the-crotch.


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## sherlock

MRM1 said:


> Not seen the Z5 up close, but looked at lots of real pics. Rode the Z6 too ... but that Black / Orange is just Butt Ugly IMO. LoL !!


Yeah I didn't like that either. I reckon wait until you see the 2012 models (of which I'm waiting on too), but if you're gonna go with the Giant, get the M. You can always get a slightly longer stem or differently profiled bars without issue. You can't grow longer arms.


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## MRM1

willieboy said:


> Shoe-off-book-in-the-crotch.


 So with a 30" inseam and that method, are you considered to have short legs and a long arms / torso by a fitter? My inseam is 33" at 5' 8.5". 

Perhaps a M would have my seat Jacked up too much and then it would be hard to get the bars hi enough to make it work. My ideal set up to my flexibility is having the bars level or just above the seat.


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## MRM1

MRM1 said:


> Well here is something I have never seen before. Giant's Compact Road Design Sizing Chart (accessed by clicking the icon on the Advanced 3 page) IS WRONG to the frame geometry of the Advanced.
> 
> The Advanced Geo chart has the M at a 54.5 TT and the Size Chart says a M is 55.5 TT. The M / L on the Advanced Geo chart is 56.0 , but on the Size Chart it is 57.0. What gives? Is one Effective TT and the other Actual TT?
> 
> If they are measuring the same, and the Advanced Geo chart is correct, this pushes the sizing down ... so maybe my shop is correct, Maybe I would fit on a M / L and a M would be too small.


FWIW, an update to this. The Compact Road Design Sizing Chart is for the size of the TCR not the Defy Advanced. The Defys have a 5 to 10 mm shorter TT depending on Size.


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## a_avery007

depends how much saddle setback you use.

me, 5'9" and can ride medium, but like a smaller feeling bike.

can ride Small defy, with 10 or 11cm stem or Medium with 9 or 10cm stem.

do not go with the M/L way to big..
my lousy 2cents..


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## MRM1

a_avery007 said:


> do not go with the M/L way to big..
> my lousy 2cents..


That is my thinking too, but wondering, Will I be able to set the bars up over or at least level with the seat in a M. The seat post from Center of the BB to top of the saddle would have to be at 29.5 form legs.


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## a_avery007

also re-read your post;
do NOT move your saddle forward to adjust for reach, ever!

what i am talking about is fore-aft, not absolute saddle height.

each of those frames vary in seat tube angles from 73 degrees to 74 degree, which can lead to over 1cm difference in effective top tube length, once you set your saddle setback reletive to the bb.

as i said adjust your saddle setback and then adjust for reach and drop.

you can run a 7-10 degree stem flipped up and get another 1cm+ of bar height or 17-20 degree stem and get 2cm+

have your fitter adjust your saddle setback first.


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## MRM1

a_avery007 said:


> also re-read your post;
> do NOT move your saddle forward to adjust for reach, ever!
> 
> what i am talking about is fore-aft, not absolute saddle height.
> 
> each of those frame vary in seat tube angles from 73 degrees to 74 degree, which can lead to over 1cm difference in effective top tube length, once you set your saddle setback reletive to the bb.
> 
> as i said adjust your saddle setback and then adjust for reach and drop.
> 
> you can run a 7-10 degree stem flipped up and get another 1cm+ of bar height or 17-20 degreestem and get 2cm+
> 
> have your fitter adjust your saddle setback first.


Well that seals the deal. The sales man was trying to get me on the M/L to get me out the door. Kept saying its the right size for me. I notice he had pushed the seat way forward on the M/L. I did not like it and it DID put me in a bad place in relationship to the BB. If I get a Defy, it will be in a M. 

I called the shop to day and they had not ordered the M so I am sure it will NOT be here Friday. I think they were just trying to sell floor stock. I am beginning to wonder if they will get the right size for me at all.


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## dasho

I'm having the same issue as you - a friend sold me his size small 2007 TCR frame for $300. It is immaculate and hasn't been ridden in 3 years. I'm a tad under 5'7" with a 30" inseam and the Giant site says the small fits 5'2' to 5'6". So I'm right on the cusp.

But I figure since the TT of the TCR is 74 degrees, I would rather move the seat back to get a 73 degree-ish angle to match my Cervelo Soloist Team (size 51). Like you, I want the bars at seat height at least. So as I did for the Cervelo, I will put a 3T Arx, 73 degree stem to raise the bars. I also ordered the FSA Omega handlebars as they are compact and will put the hoods closer to the straight part of the bars.

I expect the setup to be very close to the Cervelo which feels more comfortable to me than any bike I've had in the 14 years


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## Comer

I'm 6' with a 34" inseam. I ride the Defy Advanced 0 in a M/L, with a -6 degree 100 mm stem. Fits perfect. 
Seems to me you would ride the M.


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## MRM1

Thanks for the feed back. I like the compact bars idea. That may be a consideration too.

I may go to a different shop tomorrow. My original shop does not seem to be able to pull the deal together and deliver on a M frame. The other shop will cost a bit more, but has a fitting service free with the bike.


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## MRM1

Done Deal. New Shop today. Fit to a Medium. Ordered and will be delivered either Friday or Tuesday. 2011 Advanced 3 for $1650 out the door with an upgraded saddle.


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## Rob

Congrats. Let me be the first to say... please post pics! 

A size update...I'm 6' 0" and 34.25 inseam and I liked the M/L but the guy at the shop said L would be better. I'm not sure. It felt kind of big to me. It wasn't a comprehensive fitting, he just watched me ride around the lot. They have both in stock and they are having a big Labor Day sale this weekend and I have a chance to get a great deal. Decisions, decisions...


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## sherlock

MRM1 said:


> Done Deal. New Shop today. Fit to a Medium. Ordered and will be delivered either Friday or Tuesday. 2011 Advanced 3 for $1650 out the door with an upgraded saddle.


Great, nice work! Now get to riding it


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## Comer

I'm 6' with a 34" inseam. I ride the M/L with a -6 degree 100 stem. 4 to 5 hour rides no problem with comfort. 




Rob said:


> Congrats. Let me be the first to say... please post pics!
> 
> A size update...I'm 6' 0" and 34.25 inseam and I liked the M/L but the guy at the shop said L would be better. I'm not sure. It felt kind of big to me. It wasn't a comprehensive fitting, he just watched me ride around the lot. They have both in stock and they are having a big Labor Day sale this weekend and I have a chance to get a great deal. Decisions, decisions...


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## Rob

Comer said:


> I'm 6' with a 34" inseam. I ride the M/L with a -6 degree 100 stem. 4 to 5 hour rides no problem with comfort.


How does this compare specs-wise with the stock stem?


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## MRM1

Anyone know the length of the compact crankset in the Medium frame? are they 170 or 172.5?


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## willieboy

mrm1 said:


> anyone know the length of the compact crankset in the medium frame? Are they 170 or 172.5?


172.5


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## Comer

the stock stem was a 105mm with a -6 degree. plus i usually change stems to the ritchey wcs, bars too. 





Rob said:


> How does this compare specs-wise with the stock stem?


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## MRM1

Got in my first ride last evening. 30 miles. Need to get it dialed in, but the more I am around it, the more I think the medium was a good selection for my size, and stretch ability. 

Ended up with a 2011 Advanced 3 with upgraded Saddle - a Selle Italia XO. Out the door and all set up with my SPDs, Bottle cages, rear light and computer mount it weighed 19 lbs 11oz. I think if I decided to put my Neuvation M28 wheels on it, it will be down about 8oz more.


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## cmanbrazil

Very nice bike. I hope to be riding the same one. I will know tomorrow if my shop can get one in. They are looking at other shops around the state.


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## MRM1

Hope you are able to find one. Nice bike it is.


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## MRM1

cmanbrazil said:


> Very nice bike. I hope to be riding the same one. I will know tomorrow if my shop can get one in. They are looking at other shops around the state.


Where you able to find one?


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## cmanbrazil

A giant rep found one at another shop, and they are waiting to see if they could get hold of it before it is sold. I appreciate the effort, and I appreciate the LBS willingness to work with me to get what I want. I can't escape the feeling that the frame on the Defy Advanced Comp. 2012 is a step back from the 2011 defy advanced frame. I would be paying the same price for apex over 105 and a lesser frame. I'm not feeling that. 

Hopefully MRM1 we can share our experience with our first thousand miles on the bike next summer.:thumbsup: 

If I can't get it, the LBS has offered me the 2012 Defy Advanced II for three hundred less than everyone else is selling theirs for. I may suck it up and get that one, but it is way more than I was looking to spend good deal or not.


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## MRM1

it would take a large inhale for me


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## cmanbrazil

I agree, I will be at my LBS tomorrow trying to push this deal through. With my trade in's I will only have to come $550 out of pocket.


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## MRM1

cmanbrazil said:


> I agree, I will be at my LBS tomorrow trying to push this deal through. With my trade in's I will only have to come $550 out of pocket.


That is a little easier to take in. Hope it works out for you.

Hey FWIW, I just saw a claimed 2 week old Defy Advanced 3 M on ebay for 1345 and 85 shipping ... buy it now. no bidding. pretty decent price IMO.


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## MRM1

Ok so first week of riding is done. So far, I have not been able to top my best speed on my local loop compared to my Felt Z100. Probably has to do with having been off the bike for nearly 3 weeks from late Aug to Last week due to sickness. Still kinda congested, but not 100% yet. Hoping my strength will be back up by mid next week and I will be able to tell if this new ride has been an improvement ... or just an ego boost


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## MRM1

FWIW ... HIt my Fastest Solo ave speed tonight on my quick local loop with the Defy. 19.1 ave

Now 2.5 weeks on the Giant Defy Advanced 3 - I got a total of 273 miles on the bike. Still dialing the fit in ....
- Fit is getting a little better as I work with the shop and my own needs slowly. Had a full shop fit 9 days ago
- Still testing different Saddles. Right now on the shop loaner WTB Silverado. Thinking of trying the Fizik loaner for a week or so.

Shooting for a total of 400 miles for Sept both on the Giant and my old bike. Not bad considering I was off the bike due to sickness the first week of Sept.


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## robpar

MRM1 said:


> That is my thinking too, but wondering, Will I be able to set the bars up over or at least level with the seat in a M. The seat post from Center of the BB to top of the saddle would have to be at 29.5 form legs.


 You can get 17 degree (eleven81) 30 degree (Ritchey) 35 (Torelli Bormio) and 40 degree (Avenir) rise stems, They all range in length from 80mm to 110mm


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## Chico2000

MRM1 said:


> Not seen the Z5 up close, but looked at lots of real pics. Rode the Z6 too ... but that Black / Orange is just Butt Ugly IMO. LoL !!


I did a test ride on a Z5(bit outta my price range) before I got my Z85 and I really liked the feeling of that carbon frame with the Z geometry. It could have been in my head, but the power transfer with every pedal stroke was amazing. 
I'm 5' 8.75'' and went with a 54cm. Only had it for a few days, but one of the most comfortable bikes I've been on.
Edit: just now seeing that you got the Defy in a med. Nice. Good luck with it.:thumbsup:


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## MRM1

robpar said:


> You can get 17 degree (eleven81) 30 degree (Ritchey) 35 (Torelli Bormio) and 40 degree (Avenir) rise stems, They all range in length from 80mm to 110mm


Thanks, that is exactly what I have been considering. Been looking at the Ritchey stem and also one by Profile Designs. Thinking of a 70mm, but I am thinking ... the more the rise, the shorter the reach becomes?? So a 70mm 17* might be about the same reach as an 80mm with a 35* rise, BUT the 85/35 would be higher. Does that seem to make sense?


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## PJ352

MRM1 said:


> Thanks, that is exactly what I have been considering. Been looking at the Ritchey stem and also one by Profile Designs. Thinking of a 70mm, but I am thinking ... the more the rise, the shorter the reach becomes?? So a 70mm 17* might be about the same reach as an 80mm with a 35* rise, BUT the 85/35 would be higher. Does that seem to make sense?


Yes, as you raise the bars, you'll also be shortening reach, but your 'guestimate' is off a little.

In your example, reach will actually be 9mm's less and bars 24mm's higher with the 80mm 35* stem versus 70mm 17* stem. If you wanted to keep reach close (within 3mm's) you'd go with a 90mm stem. That would also raise the bars about 3cm's, so you might have a trade off there, depending on your goals. 

(All) this assumes a HT angle of 73* and 40mm's of spacers, so YMMV (a little). 

Here's a tool you can use to experiment with some other values. 
Stem Chart


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## cleon

Nice bike!!


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## MRM1

PJ352 said:


> Here's a tool you can use to experiment with some other values.
> Stem Chart


Awesome ... that is perfect. Thanks for the link.

So do you know ... I have been seeing some stems listed as 97/107/115 degree. Are these listings assuming 90 degree as level or 0 and so a 97 would be a 7 degree and a 115 would be a 25 degree rise?

For instance. This Profile Design stem on Ebay. It is listed as a 70mm 65/115 degree. Is that what would be considered a 25 degree rise?


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## PJ352

MRM1 said:


> Awesome ... that is perfect. Thanks for the link.
> 
> So do you know ... I have been seeing some stems listed as 97/107/115 degree. Are these listings assuming 90 degree as level or 0 and so a 97 would be a 7 degree and a 115 would be a 25 degree rise?
> 
> For instance. This Profile Design stem on Ebay. It is listed as a 70mm 65/115 degree. Is that what would be considered a 25 degree rise?


That's correct. Any number straying from 90 indicates a rise or drop.

Personally, I prefer (for example) -/+7* to -/+83*, but they mean the same thing.


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## MRM1

so the way I am seeing it from your link, to get the same bar height out of a 70mm stem as a 90mm, if the 90 has a 21 degree rise, the 70 would need a 35 degree rise. I wounder how that would effect steering / handling of the bike with the 70/35* stem.


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## robpar

are those long reach brakes?


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## PJ352

MRM1 said:


> so the way I am seeing it from your link, to get the same bar height out of a 70mm stem as a 90mm, if the 90 has a 21 degree rise, the 70 would need a 35 degree rise. I wounder how that would effect steering / handling of the bike with the 70/35* stem.


Yes, in your example bar_ height_ would be equalized, but using the 90mm stem, _reach_ increases by just under an appreciable 3cm's. OTOH, if you're now using a 90mm stem, decreasing reach by 28mm's is also appreciable, and both scenarios may introduce new fit issues and/ or adversely affect f/r weight distribution. 

Speaking of which, _as long as f/r weight distribution isn't adversely affected_, I wouldn't fret over using a 70mm 35* stem. IMO/E many mistakenly think shorter stems adversely affect handling because they disregard the fact that they're usually used on ill fitting (too large) bikes. Lower frontal weight down to less than 40% and the front end of any bike can get twitchy.

As I recall, you're currently working with a fitter. In that case, I'd advise you to consult with them (and ideally work one on one with them) on implementing these types of changes.


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## MRM1

robpar said:


> are those long reach brakes?


The brakes are just normal reach 105 5700. They are the newest breed.


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## MRM1

PJ352 said:


> As I recall, you're currently working with a fitter. In that case, I'd advise you to consult with them (and ideally work one on one with them) on implementing these types of changes.


I work with them as much as I can, but the shop is over an hour away, and really not on the way to anything for me. I am just flirting with options so when I go in I have a good basis and understanding of the options.


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## PJ352

MRM1 said:


> I work with them as much as I can, but the shop is over an hour away, and really not on the way to anything for me. I am just flirting with options so when I go in I have a good basis and understanding of the options.


Gotcha... good plan!! :thumbsup:


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## MRM1

I got to make a trip back out to the LBS that did the fit soon ... I have their Demo WTB Silverado.  I was hoping to get in 400 miles for Sept ... but as today is the last day and I did 20 this morning ... I am done at 370. Might as well go on a road trip to the bike store.


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## Mr. Scary

MRM1 said:


> FWIW, the Geometry of the Specy Roubaix 54 and the Defy Advanced M are very close in size. I rode a Defy 1 in Medium and it felt OK. The Roubaix in a 54 was a very nice fit, but the price tag was too hi and the bike was noisy.
> 
> Here they are all laid out side by side. My current bike is the Felt Z100. Yellow is the bikes I have ridden, BUT I did get to ride a Defy 1 in the M which is the same geo as the Advanced ... or real close.


A geometry chart is not complete without seat tube angle, I suspect the Defy has a relaxed seat tube in the M/L (less than 73 degrees) since the M/L TCR has a 72. This will affect where your saddle is placed relative to bb. How can you compare bikes without factoring this in?


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## MRM1

Mr. Scary said:


> A geometry chart is not complete without seat tube angle, I suspect the Defy has a relaxed seat tube in the M/L (less than 73 degrees) since the M/L TCR has a 72. This will affect where your saddle is placed relative to bb. How can you compare bikes without factoring this in?


Sorry... I was taking those into consideration in my head. The Defy is 73, the Roubaix is 73.5. For me my primary needs to compare where head tube height and TT length. And then work from there once I narrowed down my choices and had a chance to ride a few.


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## Mr. Scary

MRM1 said:


> Sorry... I was taking those into consideration in my head. The Defy is 73, the Roubaix is 73.5. For me my primary needs to compare where head tube height and TT length. And then work from there once I narrowed down my choices and had a chance to ride a few.


Seat angle affects TT length, they are not mutually exclusive. The 1/2 degree steeper Specialized seat angle adds 5mm to the effective TT.


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## MRM1

All the more reason why the Giant fits me better.


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## cmanbrazil

Finally the bike is here. It has taken a over a month, but I was able to get the 2011 defy advanced 3. The warm weather is fading here in Ohio. However it really doesn't matter, I will ride as long as I can and will pick it up again in the spring.

I will post picks as soon as I get it, but for now I am just happy to know it is here.:thumbsup:


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## MRM1

Great news !! You are really going to like this bike. I have decided an "fit" issues I have with the bike are me and not the bike. I just have a bum shoulder and my pain is not the result of a bad fit, but rather the "injury". (see discussion starting on page 2). That is why I am fiddling with stem height / Length.

I have looked at a few of the 2012's ... Looks like the same bike, but I picked up a Defy Advance Composite 2 (and for some reason it had Rival on it and not Apex) ... It did feel heavier than my bike (no objective scale weighing just feeling). My 2011 has lighter tires, tubes and wheels than stock but that was just odd. Especially since mine weights 19 lb 3 oz and that is full loaded ... Pedals, cages, tail light and cadence sensor.


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## cmanbrazil

The lbs told me the frame for the 2012 composite weighed more, but the components on the 2011 weighed more then the 2012 so the 2012, according to him, weighed the least.

I think I will stick with the better frame.:thumbsup: I don't have a dog in the component fight between sram and shimano, so 105 will be good enough for me. Honestly i wanted to get the best bike I could afford, but my fight is with the engine for now. Until I get that in shape, I won't be overly critical of the bike.

What I probably will need is good tires for cold wet weather. any suggestions?


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## cmanbrazil

The stock seat hurts. I was going to prioritize tires, but this seats hurts. I know it has been a couple of years, and I am bigger, but I am going to have to change seats until I ride more and get in better shape at least. Because of the weather here, when I can't ride, I hit the spin bike at the gym. I am pissed at myself that I didn't prepare better while waiting for my bike by riding my mountain bike and a spin bike. :mad2: Lessoned learned.


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## kbwh

cmanbrazil said:


> What I probably will need is good tires for cold wet weather. any suggestions?


Continental Grand Prix 4 Seasons (25mm) or Vittoria Pavé (24mm).


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## MRM1

cmanbrazil said:


> The stock seat hurts. I was going to prioritize tires, but this seats hurts. I know it has been a couple of years, and I am bigger, but I am going to have to change seats


 I ditched that dog in the negotiation of the original sale of the bike. I got the shop to throw on a Sella Itallia Flow XO ... BUT ... I did not care for that one either. 

I tried a WTB Silverado and it worked OK, but am now using a Specialized Toupe Gel. I was measured for a 143, but got the wider width. So far it is pretty decent. But Specy offers a 30 day money back, so I will try it for another week before giving another a go. If I don't like the Toupe, my give the Romin a whirl.


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## BrothersEmpire

For the record, I'm 5'11" and have the TCR Advanced 2 in a S (50cm) which is now considered a M according to the new sizing charts of the 2012 bikes. I think they had way too many people who didnt understand the whole Compact Race style frame, with aggressive sloping top tube. My 50cm is equivalent to riding say a 54-56cm TT on most other brands. Ive been riding it for two years now and love it, its super solid in the rear end, even if the TT feels like its much lower than on other bikes. I ride with a 100mm stem and approx -6 degrees. I also have about 18-20cm drop from my seat to my bars. The Arione that come standard you need to give time to bed in. As well as time for your butt muscles to get used to it. Dropping the nose down 1cm helps at the start, as it moves where your sit bones are on the saddle. 

Enjoy the Giant, im loving mine!


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## cmanbrazil

MRM1 said:


> I ditched that dog in the negotiation of the original sale of the bike. I got the shop to throw on a Sella Itallia Flow XO ... BUT ... I did not care for that one either.
> 
> I tried a WTB Silverado and it worked OK, but am now using a Specialized Toupe Gel. I was measured for a 143, but got the wider width. So far it is pretty decent. But Specy offers a 30 day money back, so I will try it for another week before giving another a go. If I don't like the Toupe, my give the Romin a whirl.


Thanks for the advice. I have learned a few things since that post. My first two rides I couldn't make it more than six miles without being in pain. My problem isn't the sit bones, but the space in-between my private parts and the sit bones. My last ride was fifteen miles, and I could have made it to at least twenty on the same seat. I am learning that time in the saddle is important, along with using my legs to carry some of the load, and changing position as often as necessary. I am going to raise my seat on the next ride as well. I think I am going to tuff this seat out at least until the spring and see where I am at.

On my last ride I rode with a friend who helped push me to ride faster, at a more consistent speed and cadence. He also taught me to draft him, where I was able to easily ride 4 mph faster. That was cool. Its getting colder here, but the sun will be out this weekend, and I will be back out. I also do the spin bike at the gym.


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## MRM1

BrothersEmpire said:


> The Arione that come standard you need to give time to bed in. As well as time for your butt muscles to get used to it. Dropping the nose down 1cm helps at the start, as it moves where your sit bones are on the saddle.


Yeah, I know the more up line models of Giants come with better seats, but the Defy 3 comes with an Selle Royal SR ... they are OK, but did not fit me


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## MRM1

cmanbrazil said:


> I think I am going to tuff this seat out at least until the spring and see where I am at.
> 
> ... a friend ... taught me to draft him, where I was able to easily ride 4 mph faster. That was cool.


While it is somewhat true that you may can adjust to about any saddle, be careful that you are not developing hot spots on longer rides especially in the soft tissue areas. There really should not be any for a saddle that fits you right.

And drafting is cool !! ::thumbsup:


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## cmanbrazil

MRM1 said:


> While it is somewhat true that you may can adjust to about any saddle, be careful that you are not developing hot spots on longer rides especially in the soft tissue areas. There really should not be any for a saddle that fits you right.
> 
> And drafting is cool !! ::thumbsup:


I wish an LBS would give me that advice. I am going to ride a while longer with seat adjustments, etc. However, I will be watching. I know the spin bike is more comfortable with a raised seat. We'll see.


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## MRM1

cmanbrazil said:


> I wish an LBS would give me that advice. I am going to ride a while longer with seat adjustments, etc. However, I will be watching. I know the spin bike is more comfortable with a raised seat. We'll see.


Perhaps go and get a fit or a quick fit at an LBS. Whatever you do, raise the seat slowly and then give your self time on the new level for you body to adjust. You might want to try a seat height calculator for a ball park based on leg length. Seats are measure from the center of the Bottom bracket to the top of the saddle up parallel to the seat tube.

Here is the calc link. Grain of salt, but a good starting point:
Total Bike Online Catalog


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