# Cyclocross vs Grave bikes



## Crank-a-Roo

*Cyclocross vs Gravel bikes*

Over the years, many non racers asked about information on getting a cyclocross to ride on dirt roads or to commute. Don't you think that gravel bikes will serve them better??


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## tednugent

Crank-a-Roo said:


> Over the years, many non racers asked about information on getting a cyclocross to ride on dirt roads or to commute. Don't you think that gravel bikes will serve them better??


Gravel is probably better, but choices are limited, which in turn means prices are little higher.

Cross, being more commonly available from the big manufacturers (and bikesdirect) means more bang for the buck.


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## Randy99CL

To quote Bikesnob:

Customer: "Ooh, that's nice. Is it a cyclocross bike?"

Salesperson: "No, it's a gravel bike."

Customer: "What's a gravel bike?"

Salesperson: "Well, it's like a road bike, but it's got more tire clearance and a more stable geometry."

Customer: "Like a cyclocross bike."

Salesperson: "Well, kind of, but it's a gravel bike. Remember Brick Tamland from 'Anchorman?' 'I love lamp.' Hilarious!"

Customer: "Right. So can you do a cyclocross race with it?"

Salesperson: "Well, it's a good option for someone wanting to _experiment_ in cyclocross racing, but once you actually start cyclocross racing you're going to need an actual cyclocross bike. For that you'll want the 'Fantana.' Remember 'Sex Panther?' Hilarious!"

Customer: "Right. So what's the difference between experimenting in cyclocross racing and cyclocross racing?"

Salesperson: "A skinsuit and buying another bike you don't need."

Customer: "F**k this, I'm leasing a Hyundai."

I blame disc brakes for all of this. They're like sun-dried tomatoes were back in the '90s--just put them on the same old dish and all of a sudden it's supposed to be something new and exciting.

This is not to say the Tamland doesn't look like a fun bike--it certainly does. It's just that the older I get the less able I am to keep up with the hair-splitting.


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## clydeone

Randy99CL said:


> To quote Bikesnob:
> 
> It's just that the older I get the less able I am to keep up with the hair-splitting.


THANK YOU one of my favorite Blog entries :Some answers to just about any bike forum post I’ve ever read | Blog | Surly Bikes


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## DCash

*vs. Monster Cross*

So tire width and hype. Same for "monster" cross?


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## the mayor

DCash said:


> So tire width and hype. Same for "monster" cross?


Sort of....but different.
The things that make a cross bike a good race bike are the same things that may make it not-so-perfect for gravel.....and vice versa.
I still haven't figured out what a monster cross is for (at least where I live).


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## the mayor

clydeone said:


> THANK YOU one of my favorite Blog entries :Some answers to just about any bike forum post I’ve ever read | Blog | Surly Bikes


As much as I want to not like Surley....this sort of stuff makes me like them.


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## dmcgoy

Crank-a-Roo said:


> Over the years, many non racers asked about information on getting a cyclocross to ride on dirt roads or to commute. Don't you think that gravel bikes will serve them better??


If I understand this correctly, gravel bike are cyclocross bikes with SLIGHTLY slacker geometry, SLIGHTLY longer wheelbase, and are (sometimes) SLIGHTLY lower bottom brackets (larger bb drop). So, they'll be a bit more stable in choppy conditions and high speeds. So, given all else is equal, probably better for commuting. But all else isn't equal. Since gravel bikes are so new, you'll almost certainly be spending more money than a equivalent cx bike. If you've got plenty of money, then sure, buy a gravel bike. If money matters, then just pick up a used CX bike. There are loads of them for sale where I live right now. If money really matters, then you can buy a cheap MTB and put slicks on it. Or an old road touring bike. It's a commuting bike. It shouldn't be fancy (says the guy with a carbon fiber commuter/cx racer).


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## clydeone

the mayor said:


> As much as I want to not like Surley....this sort of stuff makes me like them.


yes i love their attitude (Ok I got a crosscheck frame hanging in the garage and A Krampus as my current main mountain bike)


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## Roland44

Crank-a-Roo said:


> Over the years, many non racers asked about information on getting a cyclocross to ride on dirt roads or to commute. Don't you think that gravel bikes will serve them better??


I prefer Gravel but the prices are higher..


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## VeldrijdenAddict

Wow! I'm glad I'm a clueless racer. Never heard of gravel bikes until this thread.


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## bikerjulio

VeldrijdenAddict said:


> Wow! I'm glad I'm a clueless racer. Never heard of gravel bikes until this thread.


I was going to say the same thing.

WTH is a gravel bike anyway?


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## headloss

VeldrijdenAddict said:


> Wow! I'm glad I'm a clueless racer. Never heard of gravel bikes until this thread.


Where have you been the last six months?!?! Kona Rove, Raleigh Tamland, Salsa Warbird... so much more than the cross bikes they replaced. LOL


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## DCash

I think I've got it: N+1!


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## bikerjulio

DCash said:


> I think I've got it: N+1!


Yep.



> Kona Rove, Raleigh Tamland, Salsa Warbird... so much more than the cross bikes they replaced. LOL


All the examples above had disk brakes, which must be the thing to have now. Rim brakes - so 2013.


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## the mayor

VeldrijdenAddict said:


> Wow! I'm glad I'm a clueless racer. Never heard of gravel bikes until this thread.


You haven't heard.
It's a bike that you ride on dirt roads!
No one has ever been able to do this because there was no special bike available....until now!
It's the next big thing.....( says the marketing dept )


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## Bonesbrigade

I'm finding the current crop of these so-called "gravel bikes" to have ill suited geomety. They generally have way too long chainstays, too much trail, and not enough BB drop. 

IMO, a good gravel bike should be very close in geo to a road bike, but with just more clearance for larger tires. My Specializd Crux comes pretty close to this and just happens to be my cyclocross race bike. I can switch wheels and gearing back and forth to suit my needs with one bike. 

Most 'cross bikes have more appropriate geo than the current trend of gravel bikes.


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## Local Hero

Is there a chainring difference? 36/46 or 34/46 or 38/48 chainrings on a cross bike while a gravel bike will run a compact 34/50?

The idea is that a 50T bigring will help in the wide open sections of a gravel race while the tighter cross rings will be easier to shift.


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## Bonesbrigade

Local Hero said:


> Is there a chainring difference? 36/46 or 34/46 or 38/48 chainrings on a cross bike while a gravel bike will run a compact 34/50?
> 
> The idea is that a 50T bigring will help in the wide open sections of a gravel race while the tighter cross rings will be easier to shift.


44t to 48t bigrings should be plenty for gravel riding/racing. Hell a 44t front and 11t rear at 100rpm will net you a speed of close to 52km/h.


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## Local Hero

Bonesbrigade said:


> 44t to 48t bigrings should be plenty for gravel riding/racing. Hell a 44t front and 11t rear at 100rpm will net you a speed of close to 52km/h.


Generally I would agree. For the record I run a 1X10 with a 36T up front for my cross bike and 44T up front on my training/rain bike. I've learned what it was like to spin 110+rpms to keep up with training buddies who casually pushed 90rpms. It is no problem for the first hour. After that...

I agree that there is very little difference between 48T and 50T. Over the past few months I raced P1/2 on the roads and trained with a French national pro who is looking for a contract stateside. He runs a 38/48 setup on his road bike and had no trouble beating me regularly. 

That said, it doesn't change the fact that bikes designed for gravel racing often come with the 50T. And some gravel racers I know who have done the Dirty Kanzaa claim that the 50T is essential for the fast, wide open sections and stretches with tailwind, where speeds reach 35mph and the line of racers is guttered. Let's not forget the downhill sections, where speeds can exceed 40mph. Staying in contact is important. 

Back to the original question: *Which is better for a commute?* 

I agree that it doesn't matter. I would have no trouble commuting on a 1X10 (1X9?) with the ubiquitous 42T up front.


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## Local Hero

Local Hero said:


> When I've used this bike as a rain bike I learned what it was like to spin 110+rpms to keep up with training buddies who casually pushed 90rpms. It is no problem for the first hour. After that...


If anyone is wondering when and where it's possible for an amateur to pedal at 30mph for an hour or more, there are some flat tailwind sections of highway 1 heading south between Monterey and SLO. It is a route I have done many times. 

Strava Segment | Carmel to Cambria
Strava Segment | 46 to Cayucos exit TT


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## clydeone

Local Hero said:


> Back to the original question: *Which is better for a commute?*


The bike you own and are comfortable riding on is the best for commuting.


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## headloss

Local Hero said:


> Back to the original question: *Which is better for a commute?*


Cross, since I imagine some heavy discounts to make room for those gravel bikes!


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## mikerp

Local Hero said:


> Back to the original question: *Which is better for a commute?*


Based on N+1 you should be looking for the new thing they are coming out with, they call them Commuter Bikes. 

Sorry I couldn't resist.


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## vmps

If you're buying a bike based on where it is on the manufacturer's web site, you're doing it wrong. People sometimes say "cyclocross" as shorthand for "durable, versatile bike", but that's misleading and counterproductive. At one time it was kinda true, but the industry likes to specialize and "cyclocross" might now mean a carbon bike with no rack or fender braze ons, maybe one bottle holder, designed for one specific tire, etc., which would make a really lousy bike for anything but cx races. What you need to do is completely ignore the marketing segments. List the features that you want, then find bikes with those features. The manufacturer will call it whatever they think will make the most money this year, ignore that and focus on the functionality. And never become one of those guys that tells people to buy based on the marketing name.


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## jroden

I have been riding my bike down gravel roads for years without buying special equipment, good thing I am still even alive!


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## the mayor

There is no way you could have been riding dirt roads without a gravel bike.
No way!
It says so right in the marketing memo.....
Last year at Interbike...it was a sea of $8K disc cross bikes ( that no one bought )
2013 is the year of the $10K fatbike and some reasonably priced gravel bikes.
The big question is how many people are going to drop $10K on a fatbike and how many people actually have dirt roads to ride?



jroden said:


> I have been riding my bike down gravel roads for years without buying special equipment, good thing I am still even alive!


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## bikerjulio

Before this I never knew about gravel bikes.

Built this in the spring for an extended trip to the UK - riding the trails.

Now I'm so ashamed about the terrible mistake I made.


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## weltyed

gravel bikes are, imo, more of what most non-racers are after. more terrain than a cx bike, more relaxed than a racer, disc brake so your rims can be slightly more outta true if need be.

they also seem to be a bit heavier, which isnt great. but i find the concept to be what i am after. around me, the roads get sketchy after 10am. we have a vast limestone system, so i can throw a leg over the bike and take off. for miles. mile after car-free mile. but the trails arent so "mtb" oriented, so having something lighter than my mtb with 200/29 wheels and my road levers is really nice.
every home is a trail headhead.


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## Local Hero

A friend of mine has a Calfee Adventure Bike built up with campy super-record. http://calfeedesign.com/model-calfee-adventure/

He has three calfees and commutes on this one. It has clearance for cross tires and is perfect for touring.


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## headloss

bikerjulio said:


> Now I'm so ashamed about the terrible mistake I made.


You can always change that crankset...


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## clydeone

weltyed said:


> more terrain than a cx bike


Sorry, you're going to have to explain that one to me.

Are you telling me that the marginally wider tires on a "Gravel bike" make a difference in what terrain you can ride. Disc Brakes? (hard to discern this year)


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