# Allez Jan!



## SamDC (Mar 22, 2002)

http://www.cyclingnews.com/road/2006/jun06/suisse06/?id=results/suisse069

I can't wait for July to roll around! It's gonna be an awesome Tour. Ali v. Frasier; Magic v. Bird; Ullrich v. Basso.


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## Spunout (Aug 12, 2002)

Who would have put Cadel Evans up there in this TT?

Does that shake up anyone's TdF predictions? Not too steep, longer climbs, no TTT. Should be great as there are really 10 others (besides Basso & Ullrich) who are very real contenders(but just outside of favourites).


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## Cruzer2424 (Feb 8, 2005)

SamDC said:


> http://www.cyclingnews.com/road/2006/jun06/suisse06/?id=results/suisse069
> 
> I can't wait for July to roll around! It's gonna be an awesome Tour. Ali v. Frasier; Magic v. Bird; Ullrich v. Basso.



I always put Magic vs. Jordan.


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## Bad Link (Apr 22, 2006)

*Big Deal*

Before everyone starts saying Jan is on, let's wait and see what he does when he has some "real" competition. Take out Cadel Evans and I do not think there was any rider in the GC that will do anything come July. Disco, Phonak, CSC all had their "B" teams racing. 

Non the less, it was a big win for Jan, but I think he will disapoint come July.


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## euro-trash (May 1, 2004)

Big Deal?

Anytime you can win the Tour de Suisse, it IS a big deal. I know he has bigger objectives, but that doesn't mean this was some chump change of an event. 

He won the TT, albeit not against the best TTers in the world, soundly without taking chances in the rain.


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## Bad Link (Apr 22, 2006)

Any professional that is a hyped as Jan should win an event that has a bunch of "B" riders. How many riders in the final 20 GC will end up in the final 20 GC in Paris?

Come on. It is like the pro who shows up at the local cat 1/2 race and laps the field.


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## Laurent Fignewton (Nov 11, 2005)

Oh baloney. Contador, Gil, Jaksche, Gerdemann -- this is the new guard of cycling. Vino, Landis, et al. might be the A team of previous years, but they're a year older now and are 33 pushing 34 years old. They're in the twilight of their careers. Ullrich took on the young powerhouses & still won.


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## Guest (Jun 18, 2006)

Very nice! Looks like the TdF will feature a good matchup between Basso and Ulle - fun, fun, fun!!


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## Cruzer2424 (Feb 8, 2005)

Bad Link said:


> Before everyone starts saying Jan is on, let's wait and see what he does when he has some "real" competition. Take out Cadel Evans and I do not think there was any rider in the GC that will do anything come July. Disco, Phonak, CSC all had their "B" teams racing.
> 
> Non the less, it was a big win for Jan, but I think he will disapoint come July.


Just becuase it wasn't Landis or Basso, it's a "B" team?

Lets get them to show up to the Eindhoven TTT too! EVERY "A" list rider!


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## Cruzer2424 (Feb 8, 2005)

Cruzer2424 said:


> Lets get them to show up to the Eindhoven TTT too! EVERY "A" list rider!


oh wait. That was a different troll in a different thread...


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## Bad Link (Apr 22, 2006)

*As in Gay Cruzer*



Cruzer2424 said:


> Just becuase it wasn't Landis or Basso, it's a "B" team?
> 
> Lets get them to show up to the Eindhoven TTT too! EVERY "A" list rider!


Hey Cruzer, I have had a chance to look at the standings. Where was:
Basso
Mancebo
Vino
Levi
Rasmusen
Landis 
Pereiro
??????


VINO WILL DESTROY


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## magnolialover (Jun 2, 2004)

*Well...*



Bad Link said:


> Hey Cruzer, Now that your wife is done, I have had a chance to look at the standings. Where was:
> Basso
> Mancebo
> Vino
> ...


Basso is currently training and recovering from his win at the Giro.
Mancebo I believe raced the Dauphine, and he's not a contender anyway.
Vino, still trying to figure out how to get away with doping.
Levi: Dauphine
Rasmussen: Got shellacked earlier in the week at Suisse. Remember?
Landis: Got shellacked at the Dauphine last week.
Pereiro? You're kidding right?

Vino will or might win a stage, and that's about it. The best riders in the world aren't at every single race, nor do all of the best riders concentrate on certain events, but Ullrich, as part of his prep for le Tour decided to once again race the Tour de Suisse. It was a high quality field that rode this race. Evans finished top 10 last year in le Tour, and had a heck of TT today.


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## Bad Link (Apr 22, 2006)

magnolialover said:


> Basso is currently training and recovering from his win at the Giro.
> Mancebo I believe raced the Dauphine, and he's not a contender anyway.
> Vino, still trying to figure out how to get away with doping.
> Levi: Dauphine
> ...


Vino--How still trying to figure out how to get away with doping?? Vino Fing rules. He will win hands down. F Jan, he is a hasbeen..... Wait... a never was been, Basso..may win.....if Vino does not over-do-it. Recognize fool


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## Guest (Jun 19, 2006)

*Looks like you've taken too many hits of crystal meth...*



Bad Link said:


> Vino--How still trying to figure out how to get away with doping?? Does anyone have LA's cell phone number. Vino Fuking rules. He will win hands down. Fuc Jan, he is a hasbeen..... Wait... a never was been, Basso..may win.....if Vino does not over-do-it. Recognize fool


:skep: 


Dude, you need an attitude adjustment - or is troll-speak your native tongue? :incazzato: 

BTW, Ulle has won the TDF, Basso never has - just to set things straight. Mind you, have no problem with Basso winning - I just think Ulle is a cool guys and I'd like to see him go out with a bang.


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## rogger (Aug 19, 2005)

Bad Link said:


> Vino--How still trying to figure out how to get away with doping?? Does anyone have LA's cell phone number. Vino Fuking rules. He will win hands down. Fuc Jan, he is a hasbeen..... Wait... a never was been, Basso..may win.....if Vino does not over-do-it. Recognize fool


You're a idiot.


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## mtnpat (Mar 8, 2002)

Bad Link said:


> As in Gay Cruzer Mother Fuker


Do you kiss your mother with that mouth?

hater


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## Bad Link (Apr 22, 2006)

AJL said:


> :skep:
> 
> 
> Dude, you need an attitude adjustment - or is troll-speak your native tongue? :incazzato:
> ...


Has Jan beat Basso in the past two tours? Answer that


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## Einstruzende (Jun 1, 2004)

Bad Link said:


> Has Jan beat Basso in the past two tours? Answer that


Has Vino EVER bean Ullrich in a Tour? Hmm...nope. Do you realize Ullrich has 7 TdF podiums (including a win), a Vuelta win, World Championships, Olymbic Gold, National Championships to name a few. 

Vino has...a Kazakhstan championship. High quality competition there... (yes I know he has more wins than that)


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## Rolando (Jan 13, 2005)

*Go Jan Go!*

Great to see him win the Tour of Switzerland! Between the Giro and this most recent race, he has gotten the proper miles into the legs and looks like he'll arrive in great shape for the TDF. It looks like he also played the same tactics that he will, no doubt, employ in the Tour: Hang with most everyone in the mountains and then demoralize them in the time trials. It would be a great story if he wins.


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## Bad Link (Apr 22, 2006)

Einstruzende said:


> Has Vino EVER bean Ullrich in a Tour? Hmm...nope. Do you realize Ullrich has 7 TdF podiums (including a win), a Vuelta win, World Championships, Olymbic Gold, National Championships to name a few.
> 
> Vino has...a Kazakhstan championship. High quality competition there... (yes I know he has more wins than that)



What are you the president of the Jan fan club? A win 10 years ago and years of abuse from LA and no balls. Last year he never once showed any guts. He was content just sitting on LA's and Basso's wheels and then getting dropped on the climbs. Weather Vino beats him or not, he at least has the guts and glory to race aggressive. Look at what he did in Paris last year? He is not affraid to attack.

Jan wins a race with no real tour contendors and suddenly everyone thinks he will win in Paris this year. This book is getting old, we all know how it ends.


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## dagger (Jul 22, 2004)

*Uhmm.*



Bad Link said:


> . This book is getting old, we all know how it ends.


First I take it you made this username so you can flame, taunt, troll with anonymanity.

Second. Ullrich beat Basso already this year when he decided that he would. It's gonna be a good race and Ullrich will play a major role in how it gets decided.


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## Bad Link (Apr 22, 2006)

dagger said:


> First I take it you made this username so you can flame, taunt, troll with anonymanity.
> 
> Second. Ullrich beat Basso already this year when he decided that he would. It's gonna be a good race and Ullrich will play a major role in how it gets decided.


When was that? At the Giro?


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## atpjunkie (Mar 23, 2002)

*Jan gave a preview*

he tested his legs on some climbs. cracked some heads in the TT. considering the parcourse for the tour seems to lack the types of climbs that really hurt jan I'd say he is ready. So here are the questions
a) Will Basso not be able to hold form for that long and do a Floyd at the Dauphine impersonation?
b) will Basso be able to put enough time into the kaiser on the climbs to defend in the TT
c) will Basso be able to become 'the man' the guy who does damage on his own in the Moutains. Every second basso has put into jan the last 2 TdFs was on the wheel of LA.
Now he has to be that guy, whole different scenario
d) will Floyd be able to recover?
e) Will Levi continue his Dauphine Form
f) Cadel has a Giro leader experience, obviously has improved his TT and has a strong squad around him with Horner there to help as well. Can he be a threat or will the 2 pronged attack ( Cadel and McEwen) hurt his chances
g) finally what kind of mayhem Johann is going to cause this tour. Having now shed the race leader responsibility and having 4 guys the peloton must respect if they attack Discovery is going to be the instigator, the havoc causer this tour.


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## Dwayne Barry (Feb 16, 2003)

atpjunkie said:


> g) finally what kind of mayhem Johann is going to cause this tour. Having now shed the race leader responsibility and having 4 guys the peloton must respect if they attack Discovery is going to be the instigator, the havoc causer this tour.


Unless Basso or Ullrich have trouble following their mountain domestique's wheels, which at this point seems unlikely, both of these strong teams should have little trouble keeping it together for the final climbs. Together they will make almost any early attack by a GC threat pointless, or at least be able to keep it in check to the point that Basso and Ullrich's positions are not threatened.


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## ru1-2cycle (Jan 7, 2006)

*Ulrich!*

My heartfelt congratulations to Jan Ulrich and his formidable T-mobile team and coach on this recent TDS win- that was a great ITT, not even the thunder cloud, rain and the vicious cross winds could take Ulrich down, and he still whipped them good and with seeming ease- wow, he was fast!. I agree this upcoming TDF will be thrilling in the GC possibilities, but I also narrow it down to Jan vs Ivan, and of course, I am brooding for the cycling champ-giant riding his Giant!!!


SamDC said:


> http://www.cyclingnews.com/road/2006/jun06/suisse06/?id=results/suisse069
> 
> I can't wait for July to roll around! It's gonna be an awesome Tour. Ali v. Frasier; Magic v. Bird; Ullrich v. Basso.


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## atpjunkie (Mar 23, 2002)

*think about this*



Dwayne Barry said:


> Unless Basso or Ullrich have trouble following their mountain domestique's wheels, which at this point seems unlikely, both of these strong teams should have little trouble keeping it together for the final climbs. Together they will make almost any early attack by a GC threat pointless, or at least be able to keep it in check to the point that Basso and Ullrich's positions are not threatened.


Postal/Discovery over the last 3-4 Tours while doing the majority of the pace work were still maintaining a cadre of support around LA up to the final climb. Last few years the pack had been decimated to around 30 and 7 were on that team. Now subtract any pacemaking/temp responsibilities.If Discovery riders maintain the form and the mentality that they've shown we could wind up with a handful after the final selections have been made. Say the groups is down to 30 Jan and Ivan have 1 or 2 Doms left (which is how it was for Basso at the Giro) Johann sends Ace on an attack forcing them to chase which means Popo, Paolo and George get to sit on. If they catch Ace they (Jan and Ivan) have burned some matches,either theirs or their Doms. You get a regroup, Popo goes, repeat. I'm not saying it is going to win them a tour but my prediuction is they will be the big sh!t disturbers when they hit the hills


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## funknuggets (Feb 4, 2004)

*what the hell???*



SamDC said:


> http://www.cyclingnews.com/road/2006/jun06/suisse06/?id=results/suisse069
> 
> I can't wait for July to roll around! It's gonna be an awesome Tour. Ali v. Frasier; Magic v. Bird; Ullrich v. Basso.


Its going to be a fun tour, but Im not real sure we can compare Basso to Ali, Frasier, Bird OR Magic. Comparatively speaking, he has not earned that yet.

I would love to see Ullrich win this, and Basso will have his chances down the line, but the thing that scares me about Ullrich is we have not seen him climb competitively YET. The type of climbing Im talking about is the kind of climbing that limits huge losses, I have not seen it. Im not sure you can grow mtn legs in a few weeks, but good to see the power coming through.


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## Dwayne Barry (Feb 16, 2003)

funknuggets said:


> I would love to see Ullrich win this, and Basso will have his chances down the line, but the thing that scares me about Ullrich is we have not seen him climb competitively YET. The type of climbing Im talking about is the kind of climbing that limits huge losses, I have not seen it. Im not sure you can grow mtn legs in a few weeks, but good to see the power coming through.


What was that at the TdS? He climbed well enough there didn't he? On the stage Gil got some time Ullrich wasn't even on the rivet, he was riding a controlled tempo with Jaksche. I'm not sure he could have gone with Gil but he certainly could have loss less time if he was going 100%. The pace may be higher with more potential attackers at the Tour, but Jan will probably be a few kilos lighter by the time they hit the mountains too. It's still over 3 weeks before he will have to climb to win the Tour. On the Alp d'Huez, which is likely to be the hardest finish this year, it looks like Ullrich lost between about 1 min and 1:30 to Armstrong in years past. In the TT up it in 2004, Ullrich even put almost a minute and half into Basso. Maybe Basso is stronger now, maybe he won't show up with the stellar form he had at the Giro, maybe Ullrich can no longer reach his peak form of his past. But if he does, he should have no trouble defending against all but the best in the mountains.


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## Stasera (Mar 6, 2006)

atpjunkie said:


> Postal/Discovery over the last 3-4 Tours while doing the majority of the pace work were still maintaining a cadre of support around LA up to the final climb. Last few years the pack had been decimated to around 30 and 7 were on that team. Now subtract any pacemaking/temp responsibilities.If Discovery riders maintain the form and the mentality that they've shown we could wind up with a handful after the final selections have been made. Say the groups is down to 30 Jan and Ivan have 1 or 2 Doms left (which is how it was for Basso at the Giro) Johann sends Ace on an attack forcing them to chase which means Popo, Paolo and George get to sit on. If they catch Ace they (Jan and Ivan) have burned some matches,either theirs or their Doms. You get a regroup, Popo goes, repeat. I'm not saying it is going to win them a tour but my prediuction is they will be the big sh!t disturbers when they hit the hills


I hope you're right, because that would be fun to see. But at the pace Sastre and/or Guerini will be setting in the mountains, I'm guessing Popo, Paolo and George will be too busy trying not to get blown off the back to do much attacking. Acevedo's the only one on Discovery who can arguably climb as well as Sastre, Basso, Guerini and Ullrich, and by the time they hit the mountains, he'll likely have already lost enough time in the first big time trial that he won't be seen as a huge threat.


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## atpjunkie (Mar 23, 2002)

*but Satsre*

and or Guerini will be working everyday. Disco can pick and choose. I'm not saying they're gonna win ths but they will toss a few cats amongst the canaries


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## Guest (Jun 20, 2006)

This year will be chaos and Disco has guys who can work that to their (and importantly their sponsor's) benefit - Disco needs camera time! What a change  But there are several other teams out there with riders who will want to play this game as well.

The pace CSC set at the Giro clearly put the hurt on the climbers and they are likely to do the same thing at the TdF, at least in mountain stages. But, at the TdF there are more stages for roulers and sprinters; leading to lots of breaks and some serious tempo work for CSC, but they'll get help from the sprinters teams. There have been alot of long breaks at the Dauphine and the TdS, so I expect to see more attacks than ever at the TdF this year.

I don't expect TMobile to be as agressive trying to control the peleton - but they have an advantage here if they want - Jan, I think, will garner more respect from the peleton than Basso. That and Ulle has been making a point of looking pretty fierce of late - maybe he's training himself to be a bit more intimidating. I don't really know, but I think it's no more Mr. Nice Guy for '06. TMobile's disadvantage is that they may have more trouble controlling their own team than CSC will. In a recent interview Klodi seemed more interested in his own performance than he was with Jan's - I was a bit suprised - maybe it was a bad translation.

I could be way off base - but in any case I think we'll see a far more interesting race (at least for the fans) than last year. I can't wait till the fireworks begin!


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## Argentius (Aug 26, 2004)

Spunout said:


> Who would have put Cadel Evans up there in this TT?


Well, he did pretty darned well at Romandie. Cadel has definitely been stepping up his performance in TTs, especially tricky and non-flat ones like both of the above. Most of the other heavy-hitter TT guys weren't there to close the (fairly small, admittedly) gap, so who's gonna take down Cadel -- Kim Kirchen?

Jaksche definitely wasn't on a great day, though. It'll be interesting to see what Brajkovic can do in years to come, that was pretty impressive.


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## dagger (Jul 22, 2004)

*At this point*

Ullrich is the most relaxed, most confident, he has been in the years since I have been watching the TDF. In years past he has been hounded about his weight, and this year he doesn't have to answer questions about his form. He has had some very good performances so he doesn't have people(including himself) doubting his fitness. This year he doesn't have the 10 ton gorilla of LA on his back. Ullrich is literally a new man this year. His psyche is about the healthiest its gonna get. It's his to win.


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## carlos (May 26, 2004)

AJL said:


> I don't expect TMobile to be as agressive trying to control the peleton - but they have an advantage here if they want - Jan, I think, will garner more respect from the peleton than Basso. That and Ulle has been making a point of looking pretty fierce of late - maybe he's training himself to be a bit more intimidating. I don't really know, but I think it's no more Mr. Nice Guy for '06. TMobile's disadvantage is that they may have more trouble controlling their own team than CSC will. In a recent interview Klodi seemed more interested in his own performance than he was with Jan's - I was a bit suprised - maybe it was a bad translation.
> 
> I could be way off base - but in any case I think we'll see a far more interesting race (at least for the fans) than last year. I can't wait till the fireworks begin!


andreas kloden is a very very loyal team mate, dont forget him and vinokourov letting ullrich win the olimpic gold in atlanta. im a huge ullrich fan but i cant blame andreas for being faster than ullrich on the 2004 tour, and dont forget that the 2004 tour was ullrich worst ever, and he was still able to put 1minute on basso in the Alp d'Huez TT, when he lost only to armstrong while basso got 8º...


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## terzo rene (Mar 23, 2002)

I just don't see it being a wide open Tour like a lot of people. Between CSC and T-Mob the only way a contender is going up the road is if those 2 teams sit there and wait for the other to start the chase, and I don't think either one will do that. If they work together they can eliminate half the field in the first week with a few echelons in the cross wind flat stages and then burn off most of the rest leading up to the final climbs.

Plus Riis would probably have CSC chase alone and act like the leader just because it would put Ullrich back in the same submissive role he played with Lance.


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## dagger (Jul 22, 2004)

*That's a good strategy*



terzo rene said:


> Plus Riis would probably have CSC chase alone and act like the leader just because it would put Ullrich back in the same submissive role he played with Lance.


Let's hope Jan won't fall into that trap. I think T-Mobile is gonna take the "bull by the horns". Remember...This year Rudy Pevenage is back in the picture and he has an aggressive philosophy.


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## atpjunkie (Mar 23, 2002)

*Knowns and uNKNOWNS*

What I know
a) No team has any experience in defending a lead in the TdF besides Disco who won't be in that role so CSC and T-Mob (maybe Phonak or Gerolsteiner) are going to be put to the test
b) No team to date (including this years Giro) has been able to surround their honch with 6 Doms at the base of the final climb day in and day out besides Disco. watch old TdF's peloton decimated to 30 riders and there's Lance with everybody but Pavel and Slava.
Ivan didn't have that at the Giro though his team did an awesome job.

What I don't know
a) will any of the teams be able to step up?
b) will any of the Honches step up?
c) if Disco's riders show up in the form and mentality they have for the last 5 years, now freed from having to pull, if half a dozen wind up in the final selection what kind of chaos can they inflict?
d) without riding for a the 'favorite' will Disco's riders not be as good. Did working for the boss squeeze 120% effort out of them?
e) Will T-Kom finally ride a smart, team race?
f) Will CSC's riders ride beyond their normal capabilities in service to Ivan?

my guess is T-Mob will let Ivan get a slight lead forcing them to do the lion share of the work doing damage control and have Jan in striking distance in the TT's. I'd love to see jan go on an offensive, I just don't see it playing out as such. and folks quit bashing Jan's climbing. as the A.D.H. TT and damn near every Mtn stage has shown,there are only a few riders the kaiser's equal.


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## Laurent Fignewton (Nov 11, 2005)

atpjunkie said:


> and or Guerini will be working everyday. Disco can pick and choose. I'm not saying they're gonna win ths but they will toss a few cats amongst the canaries


Don't forget that T-Mob aquired Eddy Mazzoleni, 13th in last year's TdF and a very effective climber. He served very well as Garzelli's mountain goat in the 2003 Giro (Garzelli finished 2nd to Gibo).


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## Guest (Jun 20, 2006)

Well, if I were a betting man (and I'm not), I would put down money on CSC pulling on the yellow first...at 7.5km I think Dave Z will take the prologue. The longer TTs will be more of a toss up. Oh, are any points/time being awarded for the TT stages?


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## SamDC (Mar 22, 2002)

*I'm calling it now...*

Ivan Basso wins Le Tour not by virtue that he's stronger than Jan but he has the backing of a much stronger team. With that said, I'm still rooting for Der Kaiser!

Here's my top 3 in the team classification:

1. CSC
2. T-Mobile
3. Quick.Step (long shot but I'd like to see them up there).


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## Einstruzende (Jun 1, 2004)

SamDC said:


> Ivan Basso wins Le Tour not by virtue that he's stronger than Jan but he has the backing of a much stronger team. With that said, I'm still rooting for Der Kaiser!
> 
> Here's my top 3 in the team classification:
> 
> ...


I'd bet on Discovery finishing up there along with CSC and TMobile. Unlike years past, there are going to be 4 of those guys that are working for good placings instead of burning themselves out early in the stage.


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## unai (Oct 10, 2003)

*Dr. J*



Cruzer2424 said:


> I always put Magic vs. Jordan.


Me I always put Dr.J against Bird


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## Dwayne Barry (Feb 16, 2003)

SamDC said:


> Ivan Basso wins Le Tour not by virtue that he's stronger than Jan but he has the backing of a much stronger team.


Without a TTT, what will be the measure of CSC having a stronger team and this affecting Basso preferentially over Ullrich? For instance, if CSC sets the tempo all day on the way to the final climb and then Basso outclimbs Ullrich, Ullrich and Basso would have benefitted equally from their effort. More important, than a strong team as a whole is one or two mountain domestiques who can definitely stay with the leader over the cols in the mountains. Although did Piepoli really do anything much to help Simoni at the Giro?


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## bahueh (May 11, 2004)

*team support becomes relatively null.*



Dwayne Barry said:


> Without a TTT, what will be the measure of CSC having a stronger team and this affecting Basso preferentially over Ullrich? For instance, if CSC sets the tempo all day on the way to the final climb and then Basso outclimbs Ullrich, Ullrich and Basso would have benefitted equally from their effort. More important, than a strong team as a whole is one or two mountain domestiques who can definitely stay with the leader over the cols in the mountains. Although did Piepoli really do anything much to help Simoni at the Giro?


if these favorites are able to hang up front with whatever team decides to set pace. if Jan, Basso, Acevedo, whomever has at least one dom. with the ability to shuttle water and food, they usually let the leading team do the work anyway..I agree with DB. Ullrich did it for the past seven years sitting right behind USPS the whole time...its a defense strategy designed to not lose time obviously, while assuming TT's or later climbs will help them get their time advantages. I've raced enough the past few years to know that teams dont' always help out as much as we'd like to think they do...the pace is set by whomever and everyone just does what they can to hang with the resources available..if they crack, they crack...if teams can organize up front to control the race a bit more, they do. but other riders take advantage too defensively. breaks are difficult with team control on the front, but damage is minimized to weaker/tired riders also..


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