# Campy chain tool ... Grrr



## tom_h (May 6, 2008)

11speed Campy chain tool -- the push-pin labelled UT-CN301 broke on my tool. 

Pin snapped off flush with the drive handle, leaving virtually nothing for a needle nose pliers to grab onto. I'm guessing the tool had maybe 50 uses?

While the pin is retained by a collet, it is still snug enough that pin does not simply fall out.

Put drive handle into freezer to contract it, then heated with small torch hoping to expand the drive handle and let pin fall out -- no luck.

Pin is hardened steel, so attempting to drill into pin with a hand held drill, was futile.

So, I will find a machine shop that can put the drive handle into a lathe or drill press, bore into the tiny pin, and then pull out pin with a screw extractor or something :-(

If anyone has other idea, let me know!

Lesson: maybe replace that pin after a few dozen uses -- although it is expensive $20+.


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## gofast2wheeler (Oct 13, 2011)

I'm thinking try a strong magnet if it is magnetized. Also, put a drop of super glue on pin that broke let it set then try to pull out. JB weld works good to seize parts together. Really strong bond.


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## roadworthy (Nov 11, 2011)

Or, probably like the majority here...simply use a KMC Missing link and throw the Campy tool in the trash can and never again be encumbered by this albatross.
I have never used a Campy chain tool FWIW and if you really must have the security of a rivet, purchase an Ultegra 11s chain for your Campy groupset which uses a conventional chain tool to push the rivet in.
I know heresy and Graeme will come here and say how bad it is to run a Missing Link on Campy chains but many do it just fine including me.


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## 1Butcher (Mar 15, 2011)

Or drill a hole on the other side of the tool and push the pin out. That portion of the tool is probably easier to drill and would have to be very small [smaller than the pin]. 

At least with your information, we now know it may be a good idea to replace the pin ever 40 or so uses.

How a missing link will fix your tool is beyond me, but it is an idea.


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## roadworthy (Nov 11, 2011)

1Butcher said:


> Or drill a hole on the other side of the tool and push the pin out. That portion of the tool is probably easier to drill and would have to be very small [smaller than the pin].
> 
> At least with your information, we now know it may be a good idea to replace the pin ever 40 or so uses.
> 
> How a missing link will fix your tool is beyond me, but it is an idea.


Have you done that Butcher? Do you have any idea what you are talking about? Drilling out that pin maybe a challenge because it is likely tool steel which can be problematic for small diameter drill bits in particular...especially without a drill press and mounting vice which the OP may not have.

Also just to let you know, not only does a Missing link fix that tool but it is also a cure for cancer. Cure for untoward comments on the internet? Not so much.


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## 1Butcher (Mar 15, 2011)

Yes, the pin would be difficult to drill, it will probably spin too.

The other end of the tool. Probably not so difficult to drill. Yes, much longer since you would have to drill all the way thru it. And if you should drill all the way thru it it would have to be smaller than the pin otherwise when you got the the end, the pin would not have anything to seat against. Maybe a larger hole till the last mm, then a small hole at the end so the new pin won't push thru.

Common, it is not that bad of an idea. Came from some mechanic that does this for a living. Not saying it would fix it, but still trying to figure out how a missing link will fix the tool. Since that is what this thread is about.

Maybe we should start a thread about the merits of a missing link and a Campy chain. I can add my two cents there.


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## roadworthy (Nov 11, 2011)

1Butcher said:


> Yes, the pin would be difficult to drill, it will probably spin too.
> 
> The other end of the tool. Probably not so difficult to drill. Yes, much longer since you would have to drill all the way thru it. And if you should drill all the way thru it it would have to be smaller than the pin otherwise when you got the the end, the pin would not have anything to seat against. Maybe a larger hole till the last mm, then a small hole at the end so the new pin won't push thru.
> 
> ...


Maybe you should give advice based upon knowing what you are talking about. Since you haven't drilled one out, you have no idea of the viability of your 'so called' advice..
Maybe you should suggest removing the pin with a laser? I am sure the OP could take it to the local university and have it removed.


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## 1Butcher (Mar 15, 2011)

Yes, you are correct [as usual], I have not ever drilled out the tool before. Campy does make some good quality tools. Hence the word 'Probably'. Maybe you missed that in my original post. I think you would agree, that the pin is 'probably' much harder than the pin holder. I know we don't agree on much, but I hope somewhere you can find your way to agree on that. 

No, I will not buy the tool just to prove I'm right.

But, the laser idea is a great idea. I would have never thought to that. I'm certain you understand many of us mechanics do not have a laser in their tool box [or shop tool] that they can use to drill out stuff. We are too prehistoric and probably would use it more on pranks than real repairs.


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## aa.mclaren (Jun 25, 2008)

OP could consider returning the tool to Campagnolo, they might repair or replace. I have one of these as well, but I've only used it about a half-dozen times so far. I also got one of the much cheaper Lezyne 11s chain tools, I was wondering whether to sell one or the other of them but haven't tried using the Lezyne one yet. I'd have to say the tolerance on Campagnolo chain assembly with the 11s pins and their tool is like a fraction of a hair. The difference between being able to clamp down the lever bit, and not, is like an eighth of a turn on the screw handle. It certainly is a tight fit, stress it wrong repeatedly and I could see the pin breaking just where you don't want it.

Mind you, I've also been known to wind up mechanics at my Shimano-centric LBS with my cock-eyed expression, and pirate-accented rejoinder: "There's a lot you can do with a pair of vice grips and a centre punch, *IF* you possess the mechanical aptitude! Arrhh!" (not seriously, of course)


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## tom_h (May 6, 2008)

roadworthy said:


> Or, probably like the majority here...simply use a KMC Missing link and throw the Campy tool in the trash can and never again be encumbered by this albatross.
> I have never used a Campy chain tool FWIW and if you really must have the security of a rivet, purchase an Ultegra 11s chain for your Campy groupset which uses a conventional chain tool to push the rivet in.
> I know heresy and Graeme will come here and say how bad it is to run a Missing Link on Campy chains but many do it just fine including me.


I used a KMC 11sp link to put the bike back together -- I normally keep one as an emergency on-the-road repair.

I was nervous about the KMC link since I raced a crit today , and my riding is usually "hammerfests" anyway. 
It's common to do rear shifts under very high power, no "soft pedal" during shifts, so the shock loads on the chain are very high.

I just don't know that a KMC link will be as strong as a "native" Campy pin. The KMC pin is welded to the side plate, and that looks like a potential point of failure.


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## tom_h (May 6, 2008)

1Butcher said:


> Or drill a hole on the other side of the tool and push the pin out. That portion of the tool is probably easier to drill and would have to be very small [smaller than the pin].
> snipped .


virtually impossible for a normal machine or home shop.
The drive "axle" is solid, hardened steel, about 2.5 inch long.

I suspect only aerospace or gun barrel manufacturers would have capability to drill a precisely centered long holes like that.


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## tom_h (May 6, 2008)

aa.mclaren said:


> OP could consider returning the tool to Campagnolo, they might repair or replace... snipped


I was going to call Campy's SoCal office tomorrow. Maybe they'll take pity on me :-/

The tool is about 5 yrs old, and the warranty on non-drive train components is only 3 yrs. I may be SOL.

The tool was tolerably priced when I bought it in 2009, about $120, but now the prices seem $200++


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## tom_h (May 6, 2008)

gofast2wheeler said:


> I'm thinking try a strong magnet if it is magnetized. Also, put a drop of super glue on pin that broke let it set then try to pull out. JB weld works good to seize parts together. Really strong bond.


Interesting idea with the JB weld. I have some welding rod i can attempt to epoxy to the broken pin, and see what happens.
I'll have to rig up some clamp that holds the pin upside down, so epoxy doesn't run inside the pin.

I don't have any welding eqmt or expertise, else a spot weld to the broken pin might also be possible.

Failing all that, and if Campy won't provide a warranty replacement, I'll try a local machine shop.

The Park Tool chain tool has a pin that is much more intelligently designed. On the heavy duty chain tool I have, the small pin has a large diameter shoulder that threads into the driving axle.
When I've broken off the pin, it's very easy to unscrew the remaining stub with a small box end wrench.


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## headloss (Mar 3, 2013)

roadworthy said:


> Maybe you should give advice based upon knowing what you are talking about. Since you haven't drilled one out, you have no idea of the viability of your 'so called' advice..
> Maybe you should suggest removing the pin with a laser? I am sure the OP could take it to the local university and have it removed.


What's with the attitude today?


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## myhui (Aug 11, 2012)

You've used it fifty times (so you say). A UT-CN300 costs $169 on Ebay, new, with free shipping. Is it worth all this aggravation to repair the tool? I just bought a UT-CN200, but I have not used it yet. I'm fearing I may have the same problem with those pins.


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## roadworthy (Nov 11, 2011)

tom_h said:


> I used a KMC 11sp link to put the bike back together -- I normally keep one as an emergency on-the-road repair.
> 
> I was nervous about the KMC link since I raced a crit today , and my riding is usually "hammerfests" anyway.
> It's common to do rear shifts under very high power, no "soft pedal" during shifts, so the shock loads on the chain are very high.
> ...


Hard to know other than perhaps a million miles of riding the KMC missing link throughout the world. I personally haven't heard of a single failure and also have been riding KMC Missing links on Campy bikes for 10 years. But I don't have the world's data available, but I just don't hear of any failures. If you must have the security of an unbroken chain and a pressed in rivet, consider Ultegra 6800 11s chains. Even though I run those chains as well with a KMC Missing Link, design intent like Campy is a press in pin...only major difference is Shimano DA and Ultegra chains can be installed with a std. $10 chain tool. FWIW, because of 11s rear cassette spacing compatibility, many are now running Shimano 11s rear cassette and chain on Campy set ups and not only more cost effective, but they shift beautifully as well.
I personally wouldn't mess around with the Campy chain tool with other options available but much of this stuff is a matter of preference. Its kind of like with all the great cranksets available, why would anybody choose a Campy PowerTorque crank which has a press fit left crank arm to spindle interface requiring a puller?...when there are more robust cranks out there for about the same cost if you buy right.
Decisions and choices.


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## tom_h (May 6, 2008)

roadworthy said:


> ... If you must have the security of an unbroken chain and a pressed in rivet, consider Ultegra 6800 11s chains. Even though I run those chains as well with a KMC Missing Link, design intent like Campy is a press in pin...only major difference is Shimano DA and Ultegra chains can be installed with a std. $10 chain tool.
> 
> FWIW, because of 11s rear cassette spacing compatibility, many are now running Shimano 11s rear cassette and chain on Campy set ups and not only more cost effective, but they shift beautifully as well.
> 
> ...


One very nice advantage of the Campy chain tool, is it has a built-in gauge that precisely sets how far in the rivet pin is pressed, prior to "peening".

The Campy spec requires the rivet to protrude 0.1mm proud of the chain's inboard sideplate.

With non-Campy chain tools, this is guesswork or "eye balling". 

Not far enough => interference with next larger cog.
Too far in = weak inboard connection between rivet & chain side plate.

I just downloaded & read the Shimano 11sp chain Dealer's Manual.
Shimano 11sp chain & rivet is designed for the rivet to be precisely flush with the inboard chain link. That is easier to achieve: push a steel rule or feeler gauge against the sideplate and see if it "catches" on the rivet pin.

As real world feedback off Shimano 11sp chains on Campy drivetrains accumulates, this is something I may consider in future. 

But, I strongly believe that best performance comes from using same family of products on the drive train. Eg, I have Quarq powermeter that replaced my Campy crankset. Its original SRAM chainrings had substandard shifting compared to Campy. 

Replaced with Wickwerks rings, a big improvement, but still not quite up to the level of the Campy rings.

The front shifting is strongly dependent on how the chain's sideplates interact with the pins & ramps of the big ring.


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## tom_h (May 6, 2008)

myhui said:


> You've used it fifty times (so you say). A UT-CN300 costs $169 on Ebay, new, with free shipping. Is it worth all this aggravation to repair the tool? I just bought a UT-CN200, but I have not used it yet. I'm fearing I may have the same problem with those pins.


If a machine shop can extract pin for under $50, it's worth it to me to save price of a $169 re-purchase.

On the Campy chain tool, I'd now advise to apply a thin surface coating of copper antiseize or equivalent (not grease/oil) to the portion of push-pin that seats inside the tool's drive axle. Should make pin easier to extract if it ever breaks off.

The 10sp chains don't require the rivet pin to be "peened" - that effectively double's the life of the 10sp tool's pusher pin.

Just keep an eye on it -- you can roughly guage usage by how many times you replace chains.

Because the 11sp push pin is intended to "peen" the rivet's head and expand it, the push pin has to be a very hard steel -- apaprently that makes it more brittle & easier to snap off.


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## roadworthy (Nov 11, 2011)

tom_h said:


> One very nice advantage of the Campy chain tool, is it has a built-in gauge that precisely sets how far in the rivet pin is pressed, prior to "peening".
> 
> The Campy spec requires the rivet to protrude 0.1mm proud of the chain's inboard sideplate.
> 
> ...


Well you have given it a fair amount of thought and we each make our decisions based upon our best judgement.
Good luck with whatever you decide and be sure to let know how your refurb your chain tool. I bet if you send the tool to Graeme the Campy support company on here he would fix it or perhaps help get a replacement from Campy to help you out.

PS: a lot of this stuff is philosophy and will share mine. What you wrote in bold in fact I don't believe to be true. For example I run Shimano brakes on my Campy bike because I believe them to have superior modulation, stopping power, adjustability and even return spring rate. Also, Praxis may make the best chainrings in the world...not Campy and many believe A DA crank is the best shifting crank and no reason why a DA 11s crank can't be used with Campy derailleurs. Much of this stuff can be mixed and matched and in fact the probabilities are against any given manufacturer having the best of everything for a given driveline. I have run KMC chains for a decade on Campy bikes now. Graeme advises against it but I don't have any issues personally. I do admit that Campy chains work nicely however as do Shimano 11s chains as discussed.


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## mikerp (Jul 24, 2011)

Not sure where you are at on this, but if you put the handle up against an immovable object (say a vice) with the pin unexposed and hit the backside of the handle with a hammer you may knock the pin out.


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## 1Butcher (Mar 15, 2011)

That may work too. 

I have broken ends of extensions inside sockets and just throwing the socket on the ground usually pops the broken end out. Weird, but it works.


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## mikerp (Jul 24, 2011)

1Butcher said:


> That may work too.
> 
> I have broken ends of extensions inside sockets and just throwing the socket on the ground usually pops the broken end out. Weird, but it works.


LOL, it's called Physics, IE Newtons Craddle
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kA2vjXHnySU


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## tom_h (May 6, 2008)

I ended up having a local machine shop remove the broken pin. 
He charged me $30, which I thought was more than fair.

The tool came with 1 spare drive pin. Additional replacement pins # UT-CN301 seem to cost in the $20 range 

Addendum: Ribble sells the UN-CT301 pin for about $13, I'll just wait until I have a few more items in the shopping cart.


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## flatlander_48 (Nov 16, 2005)

By the way, peen is a regular word (such as ball peen hammer) and does not require quotations.


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## bigbill (Feb 15, 2005)

I broke a pin on mine a few months ago. I guess I got lucky that I could pull the piece out of tool with pliers. I like campy chains, I haven't found another brand that lasts as long or works as well. I bought the campy tool five years ago and I've only had chains wear out, not fail at a pin.


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## tom_h (May 6, 2008)

Could someone who owns the Campy 11sp chain tool, pls check the following for me?

>> Does the drive pin have any longitudinal play ?

My pin slides back-and-forth about a millimeter, even when the knurled collet is fully tightened. Don't recall if it was this way before the machinist extracted the broken pin. I'm wondering if during the process of drilling out the broken pin, if the hole in drive axle was deepened.


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## bigbill (Feb 15, 2005)

tom_h said:


> Could someone who owns the Campy 11sp chain tool, pls check the following for me?
> 
> >> Does the drive pin have any longitudinal play ?
> 
> My pin slides back-and-forth about a millimeter, even when the knurled collet is fully tightened. Don't recall if it was this way before the machinist extracted the broken pin. I'm wondering if during the process of drilling out the broken pin, if the hole in drive axle was deepened.


Using a machinist scale, my campy tool has 1.5mm of longitudinal play.


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