# Rear wheel cassette alignment.



## fabriciom (Sep 29, 2008)

Hello,

I have a rear wheel with a Novatec hub and i'm using a newer campagnolo chorus 11s group. Problem is I can't get the rear deraileur to change on all 11 sprockets. I can either go to the biggest or the smallest. I'm thinking I have to play with how the cassette is aligned in the wheel with the front crankset.

I have played with the max screws with no success. I also played with the screw that moves the bottom part of the deraileur closer to the sprockets and the screw that moves the deraileur on the frame it self. I bought the park tool to align the deraileur on the frame and have it aligned.

Any help welcomed.


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## rruff (Feb 28, 2006)

fabriciom said:


> Problem is I can't get the rear deraileur to change on all 11 sprockets. I can either go to the biggest or the smallest. I'm thinking I have to play with how the cassette is aligned in the wheel with the front crankset.


Do you mean you *can't* go to the biggest or smallest? 

The second sentence makes no sense. Your cassette and chainrings should be aligned just fine unless your frame is broken.


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## Mike T. (Feb 3, 2004)

Maybe there is too much cable tension. Disconnect the cable from the derailer and set both stops perfectly - then re-connect the cable. The best way that I have found for setting the low gear stop is on my wheelbuilding web page as it's an important check that should be done, especially when a new hub or wheel is installed.


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## BelgianHammer (Apr 10, 2012)

I think the OP meant he can "either" go into the smallest or he can go into the biggest, but not both, despite what he does with the adjustment screws. Sure would be nice, fabriciom, if you could be a little clearer :-0 

Do like Mike says and unhook the cable, but I would add this: after you unhook the derailleur cable, go up and click your right STI about 12 times to make sure it is in the correct position (it could be stuck one click away when you set it up and you aren't realizing it). Then, only worry about the low gear and setting the derailleur screw stop for it. Next, reconnect the shift cable with a bit of tension but not so much it pulls the chain off & up to the next cog. Then use your barrel adjuster to get the right tension so the chain smoothly hops up off that smallest cog onto its neighbor. Then work that cog in both directions (back down and up one cogs) using the barrel adjuster, so the chain goes smoothly up & down in both directions.

After that you should be good to go, to continue going on up the cassette cogs until you get to the biggest sprocket, where you'll have to adjust the derailleur screw so the cage ends up under it. If you cannot get the derailleur to end up nice & aligned under that biggest cog, then something else would most likely be going on.

Try all this stuff and then post back what you find.


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## fabriciom (Sep 29, 2008)

Hello,

Sorry for the bad explanation. I meant to say I can either get it to go to the highest or the lowest sprocket but no all 11.

I should point out that the frame is Chinese just like the wheels so I might not be surprised if things are not aligned correctly.


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## cxwrench (Nov 9, 2004)

First thing: undo the cable from the derailleur. Confirm your shifter is working correctly by holding the cable in your fingers and shifting through all 10 clicks, finish w/ by upshifting (thumb button) AT LEAST 10 times...confirm by hitting it a couple more times. 

Next: check the limit screws on your rear derailleur by pushing and pulling on the derailleur w/o the cable attached. Confirm the chain will shift to the low and high cogs. 

Attach cable and adjust.


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## ericm979 (Jun 26, 2005)

The frame and wheels have nothing to do with it.

I think the guys above are correct- you have the shifter one click off. When you unhook the cable from the derailleur and shift the shifter to get it into the high position (smallest cog), pull on the cable. Some shifters will not shift unless there is some tension on the cable.


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## fabriciom (Sep 29, 2008)

Just checked the chainline alignment and it's quite off. My cassette is way outside. The middle of the crank aligns with the lowest (23 teeth) cog.

This explains why one of my limits screw is all the way in...


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## BelgianHammer (Apr 10, 2012)

fabrciom,

is this by chance a full carbon frame? I can't see how a 130mm axle road frame would have the middle of the crank (the space between the two front rings) align with the 23T cog (which I am assuming is your biggest cog, yes)? That's seriously messed up, unless there's some new design standards I'm not aware of (which is entirely possible, I guess).

Any chance you can post a pic from behind the bike sighting along what you see (don't get too close where everything gets blurry)?


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## Mike T. (Feb 3, 2004)

BelgianHammer said:


> Do like Mike says and unhook the cable, but I would add this: after you unhook the derailleur cable, go up and click your right STI about 12 times to make sure it is in the correct position (it could be stuck one click away when you set it up and you aren't realizing it).


Dohh I forgot to add that Hamm. Good point. I'll bet this catches a lot of people out.


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## fabriciom (Sep 29, 2008)

Hi,

I exaggerated a bit. The cog does not align right on but the rear cassette its not aligned correctly. I will try some spacers on the right and see if that helps. 
Could it be that the rear hub was designed for 10 speed or shimano only?


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## BelgianHammer (Apr 10, 2012)

You are on campy 11 spd, correct? 11 spd cassettes don't fit on 10 spd hubs, far as I know (_maybe some of the other guys will chip in who actually run 11 spd, as I am still on 10-spd on all my bikes_). I know that 10-spd cassettes will fit on 11 spd hubs using the required spacer. 

anyhow, if you put your cassette on and then the lockring tightened up with no problems, I'd venture to say you have an 11 spd hub. Which Novatec campy hub model are you using?


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## bikerjulio (Jan 19, 2010)

BelgianHammer said:


> You are on campy 11 spd, correct? 11 spd cassettes don't fit on 10 spd hubs, far as I know (_maybe some of the other guys will chip in who actually run 11 spd, as I am still on 10-spd on all my bikes_). I know that 10-spd cassettes will fit on 11 spd hubs using the required spacer.
> 
> anyhow, if you put your cassette on and then the lockring tightened up with no problems, I'd venture to say you have an 11 spd hub. Which Novatec campy hub model are you using?


Ignore this bit of advice.

Campy 9-10-and 11 speed cassettes all fit on the same freehub, without the use of additional spacers.

OP you seem obsessed with alignment. Do what CX and others advise and redo the RD setup.


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## BelgianHammer (Apr 10, 2012)

LOL, it wasn't advice, I should've clarified in saying I use only Shimano and need the guys who use "Campy" to step in.


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## duriel (Oct 10, 2013)

Next question.... you got 11 speed shifters, right? If not, get the right one, then it will work.


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## fabriciom (Sep 29, 2008)

I have seen all the vids I can on youtube and done each setup various times. Clicking to the highest (11 teeth) cog and starting from there, setting the limits screws, etc. I never got even close at getting the shifting to work on all the cogs. Thats why I suspect its something else. Plus the cassette is not 100% lined up with the crank.

I did this on another bike and did not have as much trouble.

P.S. This is a completely new group set all purchased at the same time from the same vendor. The frame is a chinese all carbon and the wheels are chinese tubulars.


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## rruff (Feb 28, 2006)

fabriciom said:


> Clicking to the highest (11 teeth) cog and starting from there, setting the limits screws, etc. I never got even close at getting the shifting to work on all the cogs.


The chances that it is an alignment issue are tiny. Really tiny. But it is hard to diagnose the myriad possibilities with the info we have. 

With the chain off and cable disconnected can you move the derailleur with your hand so it lines up with both the smallest and biggest cog?


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## fabriciom (Sep 29, 2008)

Yes the derailleur can reach the limits. I even tried settting them a a bit on the outside as to pull more assuming it was some sort of lack of cable movement. Also tried adding lubricant along the places where the cable creates friction to allow better movement.


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## rruff (Feb 28, 2006)

In that case, does the shifter produce the necessary number of clicks (provide tension by pulling on the cable with your hand), and have minimal cable drag in the housing? 

If those are good, then you are not fixing/adjusting the cable correctly.


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## fabriciom (Sep 29, 2008)

Will try this tomorrow morning. Thanks for the help!

-Cheers,
Fabricio


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## duriel (Oct 10, 2013)

OK, since we don't have visual on the internet...
Disconnect the RD cable and hold onto it, operate the shifter. Does it have 11 distinct positions? If no, it is 10 speed.
I don't know campy, but from what I have red the various groupo's/years may have different pull ratio's. So if all the parts are not from the same groupo/year, you may have a pull ratio issue.
I really don't see how the cassette could be out of alignment with the idler gear right at the cog on any groupo.


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## rruff (Feb 28, 2006)

He says he bought a new Campy Chorus 11 groupset, so we can rule out that he has 10spd or mixed years. Chorus has been 11spd for a long time. 

If he can't figure it out I think we need pictures, or better yet videos. 

I'm betting the cable is hanging up somewhere, or he isn't clamping the cable at its full extension. 

OP... you need to pull on the cable with your hand while clicking the thumb button until it's at the end of its range. Screw the adjustment knobs on your derailleur and frame in all the way. Now pull the cable tight and bolt it tight to the derailleur. Turn the frame or derailleur knobs until the derailleur starts to move, then fine tune while trying out all the gears. Finish off by fine tuning the limit screws. Make sure you can just barely get on the big cog and no further.


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## Mike T. (Feb 3, 2004)

rruff said:


> Make sure you can just barely get on the big cog and no further.


Push the derailer with the thumb like a mo-fo.


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## ericm979 (Jun 26, 2005)

fabriciom said:


> The cog does not align right on but the rear cassette its not aligned correctly. I will try some spacers on the right and see if that helps.


Do you mean that the cassette it too far to the right of the frame, or that the rear wheel is at an angle? The former is pretty much impossible. The frame would need to have spacing significantly wider than 130mm AND the hub would need to match.

I have heard of some frames where the wheel is at an angle due to mismatched dropouts. You can check for rotation in the vertical plane with a long straight edge- hold it against the rear wheel and the front wheel. If it's rotated in the horizontal plane you can see that the wheels do not line up when viewing the bike from behind.

Being at an angle would not keep the derailleur from shifting to all the cogs.


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## fabriciom (Sep 29, 2008)

The wheel is not at an angle. The cassette aligns with the front cranck in cogs 2-3 starting from the left looking at the bike from the back. Instead of the middle cogs.


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## Mike T. (Feb 3, 2004)

fabriciom said:


> The wheel is not at an angle. The cassette aligns with the front cranck in cogs 2-3 starting from the left looking at the bike from the back. Instead of the middle cogs.


Google "measuring chainline" and see what's happening with your setup.


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## fabriciom (Sep 29, 2008)

Ok, finally got it to work on all cogs. At least on the bench.
I used 3in1 silicon lubricant on the cables because the movement inside the cable covers was very poor. 
I noticed that the shifting problem was more towards the lower gears (13-11). Also like I said yesterday the lower limit screw is all the way in to align it to the lowest cog (with no line tension). If I unscrewed it the chain would pop out. So thats the thing why all the videos I saw in youtube failed me. They explained that you had to start from the lowest cog. To get it to work I had to do it backwards. Get the highest cog right and work on the lower cog creating tension with the low limit screw.

Hope this works out in the street. Im gonna got test it.

I'd like to thank you all for your help and insight.

-Cheers,
Fabricio


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## Roland44 (Mar 21, 2013)

Mike T. said:


> Dohh I forgot to add that Hamm. Good point. I'll bet this catches a lot of people out.


Yep, happened to me before...


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## Marc (Jan 23, 2005)

fabriciom said:


> I have seen all the vids I can on youtube and done each setup various times. Clicking to the highest (11 teeth) cog and starting from there, setting the limits screws, etc. I never got even close at getting the shifting to work on all the cogs. Thats why I suspect its something else. Plus the cassette is not 100% lined up with the crank.
> 
> I did this on another bike and did not have as much trouble.
> 
> P.S. This is a completely new group set all purchased at the same time from the same vendor. The frame is a chinese all carbon and the wheels are chinese tubulars.


Completely new, meaning all 2015 Chorus parts? 2015 shifters and derailleurs are not operable with prior years parts. They should all be marked with an "A" on them


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## rruff (Feb 28, 2006)

Marc said:


> 2015 shifters and derailleurs are not operable with prior years parts.


What was changed?


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## Marc (Jan 23, 2005)

rruff said:


> What was changed?


For 2015....Path geometry in the RD, mechanical leverage in the front... Cable pull rates in both shifters, and the number of ratchet clicks in the left brifter. Campag claims that mixing this years with prior years will not work... In having bought Chorus myself lately, I know some retailers are less than clear what year their individual parts are. Other thing I wonder is of the OP installed the retaining clip and wavy washer, missing one of both would monkey with chain line. Or first suspect parts that don't work together...

Being a no name brand frameset by the sound of it, it could also be a badly shaped BB shell, UltraTorque cranks have basically zero capacity to deal with machining tolerance error... Also effecting chainlike.


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## rruff (Feb 28, 2006)

Thanks for the info!


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