# Need diagnosis...what happened to me?



## nyvram (Apr 11, 2002)

First some background; i have 2 bikes:

bike_________gearing_______________weight_________wheels
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look kg281___53/39-12/17 shimano____22lbs (or so)____neuvation m28 wheelset
look 586_____53/39-13/26 campy_____16lbs__________open pro/PT pro+/ritchey carbon front
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i'm skpping the diet aspect for the moment becaues its pretty consistent

Jan/Feb average 50-100 miles/week (mostly on weekends)
Average climbing - roughly 1500 feet over 35-50 miles

Ok, so here's what happened. I've been riding very strong on the 281. in fact it feels faster to me than the 586..i cant explain it..except to say when i stop pedalling and i'm in 'the smoking area' i get swept along with the group..allowing me plenty of time to rest.

the 586 by comparison..seems to slow down IMMEDIATELY if i take my feet off the pedals..so i'm constantly straining to stay in the pack. is this possibly because of the powertap?? i've never used one before..does it take more power to keep that hub turning over?


anyway, i'll post my ride data below..but here's what happened..around mile 25 or so in (you can see the little lollipop stick where i abandoned the ride) i popped like a tick..granted teh pace was hard..but i was keeping up and then heading out on that 'stick' i notcied i kept coming off the back..this never happens to me..it was embarrassing because it didn't seem the group was going all that fast.

well anyway, i finally just gave up and turned around..and then the bottom fell out..i was pedalling in the lowest gear 39x14 or 13...and could barely turn the pedals over...my legs were INCREDIBLY SORE..in fact they just stopped working..and i limped the 20 miles or so home going on average 12-13mph. horrifying. even little kids on tricycles blew past me.

ok, given that i was eating and drinking on the ride (didn't feel hungry or thirsty unlike a typical bonk)..what HAPPENED???? i'm scared it will happen again..and i'm probably unfairly blaming the bike...i have *NEVER* bonked on the 281 in the 10 years i've been riding it..i know..thats probably nothing to do with it...but something is amiss here.

i should also point out i'm still not comfortable with the new bike..but i have taken it on strong 50+ mile rides before this without difficulty.

thoughts? here's the ride data..if that helps..ignore the HR at the start..i didnt have a good connection.

ps i did hit over my max HR..in the 190s..i think my HR max was 187..and i was in the lead group for a while at the start (the racing team) so its also possible i simply overdid it at the start and blew up..but again..i'm worried about how to keep this from happening again..super super embarrassing

ps2 my lungs really ached and i was coughing up all kinds of stuff for like a day..again i'm not sick in any way..this was more a feeling like i had over-taxed them..if that helps.

ps3 my quads and calves are sore..first time in over a year...that's also unusual.

http://ridewithgps.com/trips/190739

thank you!!


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## JustTooBig (Aug 11, 2005)

sounds like you just weren't ready for a big day (for any variety of reasons), and you blew up spectacularly. It happens.

how much training do you do at race-like efforts? Mentioning it's been more than a year since you had sore legs would appear to indicate that it doesn't happen very often. You might want to change that.

If you reached a HR in the 190's, your max HR cannot be 187. It is .... in the 190's.


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## nyvram (Apr 11, 2002)

1. yes clearly i was not prepared.
2. i just bought the hrm in dec and until sat i had peaked numerous times at 187 so i assumed that was my max..I'm 44 BTW.
3. i had Hung with some racers on a couple earlier rides..but again i am just now starting to follow carmichaels book..i still don't understand a lot of things.
4. until feb I've been riding almost exclusively alone so I'm just now starting to understand the dynamics of these larger rides. i really shouldn't try so hard to stay with front group o guess and keep within my current abilities.


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## JustTooBig (Aug 11, 2005)

nyvram said:


> 1. yes clearly i was not prepared.
> 2. i just bought the hrm in dec and until sat i had peaked numerous times at 187 so i assumed that was my max..I'm 44 BTW.
> 3. i had Hung with some racers on a couple earlier rides..but again i am just now starting to follow carmichaels book..i still don't understand a lot of things.
> 4. until feb I've been riding almost exclusively alone so I'm just now starting to understand the dynamics of these larger rides. i really shouldn't try so hard to stay with front group o guess and keep within my current abilities.


well, you're learning. And every learning process has its rough spots. 

as you spend more time on the bike -- and particularly, as you spend more time doing [email protected] efforts that make you want to spit up your lungs -- the better you'll be able to judge your efforts. You'll get a feel for an effort that you can maintain for a few more minutes vs. one that you need to dial back to avoid blowing up. Doing hard intervals of varying lengths will help you judge effort vs. time.

And remember -- you have to actually step across that line and blow up now and then in order to learn where that line actually is. And that line moves as your strength and fitness levels change -- so the more often you reach out and ride on that jagged edge of failure, the more attuned you become.


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## nyvram (Apr 11, 2002)

thank you again! the more i analyze that ride..the more i noticed i started out HARD..and i didn't even realize at the time (becaues the HR was so wonky at the beginning) that my HR was red-lined for a long stretch of that initial push. i think that i simply just blew up early on and my body couldn't recover.

this ithe first time on a ride when i've been actively asking the others 'uh..is there a rest stop soon? how far again til we stop and let everyone catch up?' lol..yep i was hurting long before i was willing to admit it to myself.

after the rest stop..i simply couldn't get my engine going again. next time i'm going to make sure i have a good solid connection in the beginning and pay attention if the HR hits the 180s and dial it back. its not worth trying to stay at the front if i end up limping home again.


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## psycleridr (Jul 21, 2005)

My recommendation would be to ride more often. How many days/week are you riding? You say you are doing about 50-100/week but it seems like you are doing the majority of this in one day. 
I also see your cadaence was avg of 67 per your metrics. This seems kinda low for such a long ride. Maybe you would feel fresher if you worked on increasing cadence? (this is just a thought..). Lastly, as you mentioned it seems like you did go to hard and tried to hang too long. I would work on increasing your fitness. If you never bonked before it doesn't mean you are in great shape it just means you never pushed yourself to hard. As JustTooBig mentioned you need to bonk to find out how hard you can actually go sometimes.


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## nyvram (Apr 11, 2002)

you nailed it. i genrally do 2 50mile rides during the weekend and get at least one more 20-30 mile ride in during the week in a large gear if i'm lucky. now with the time-change, i'm thinking i can sneak a couple more nights a week in..single dad, 2 kids (cue violins) but i already bought a racing license for the year so i gotta do swomething to not completely embarrasws myself.

cadence was low becauswe after mile 30 or so i could no longer pedal.

yep..i'm not delusional..i know i have a long way to go fitness-wise..just trying to do the right things to get there.


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## nyvram (Apr 11, 2002)

I AM AN IDIOT.

after another miserable hour on the bike today..including 2 miserable FAIL carmichael field tests at barely 16mph..i was about ready to chuck my bike into the river and forget cycling completely and walk home. i was barely able to turn the crank over and my speed was 14.8mph..on a 25 mile route i *AVERAGED* 22mph on last fall.

surely my fitness isn't this bad. my legs were shot.

so anyway, i decided on a whim to reach around behind me and release the rear brake adjuster..:mad2: :mad2: :mad2: :mad2: :mad2: 

2 words: rear. brakepad.


i immediately JUMPED from 14.8 to 18.6 and the effort to maintain that was MUCH LESS. about 5 minutes after my body had recovered, i rode another 15-20 miles averaging 19mph.


so i'm going to redo the field test tomorrow and see what the difference is. it will be interesting to compare.


PS that doesnt excuse me..everything y'all said is still valid..if my legs were sore for the first time in ages..CLEARLY i'm not pushing myself so everything you said above still applies...at least i wont have to feel like a complete loser now.


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## psycleridr (Jul 21, 2005)

HAHAHAHA. 
I can assure you none of us have ever done that....or fallen while stopped at a light because we couldn't clip out......
Was it on the other day too?


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## nyvram (Apr 11, 2002)

thanks psycle..yeah i'm still smarting but it is pretty funny.

yep, this was likely my issue on sat as well..i feel pretty stupid now.

edit avg power and HR are 280 and 166 respectively. i'm going to redo tomorrow and see if those numbers change. i was hoping for a higher avg wattage. funny thing is i have been using 167 as my target HR before i did the field test for the last month or so..so i was pretty close even without the field test. weird huh?


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## heathb (Nov 1, 2008)

Don't mess with the Carmichael field test. You need to ride at least every other day. Don't space your workouts apart by more than two days or your not going to get anywhere. 

Personally in your situation I woudn't even screw with the power meter. 

You seem like your trying to slam yourself with too many goals at once. Just chill out and take a deep breath. Your racing license which probably cost $50 tops will still be good clear into the end of September or whenever your road racing schedule winds down.

Trust me they'll be plenty of guys early season show up with pot bellies depending on your catagory.


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## nyvram (Apr 11, 2002)

wait..seriously? u know i value y'alls opinions. why not use it to get an idea where to train? i mean all his workouts follow from the field test results.

i probably am doing too much..but i want to do what i can..within the time i have available..in order not to drag in at the rear of the races.

my primary goal for the season is one top 10 finish which is hard because of the hills here and the seemingly endless supply of 20-somethings who have nothing to do all day but ride their bikes constantly.


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## nyvram (Apr 11, 2002)

ok i know y'all are waiting with baited breath...drumroll...

3/16/11 CTS Field Test
CTS #1 AVG POWER 280 AVG HR 166
CTS #2 AVG POWER 270 AVG HR 157

3/'17/11 CTS Field Test
CTS #1 AVG POWER 294 AVG HR 167
CTS #2 AVG POWER 292 AVG HR 167

lol!! the HR is what i've been 'guessing' is my threshold all along...i mean on the dang dot. i'm happy to see without the brakepad rubbing that my power jumped 14 watts. i'm going to use the new wattage as my multiplier.

anyway, i know this is probably overkill..but i'm a total geek and am trying to follow the book to the T. i'm happy to have confirmation of the numbers if nothing else.


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## vontress (Jul 19, 2009)

If you ride all your rides with the brake rubbing, think of how easy it will feel when you ride races without the rubbing. Funny story. I've been there before. I always check mine as a result of the error. I'm sure you will too.


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## jordo_99 (Apr 15, 2011)

nyvram said:


> 2 words: rear. brakepad.


Too funny. The same thing happened to me during a training ride. I kept feeling a bunch of frame vibration during my ride and 15 miles in I decided to stop and take a look. Sure enough my rear brake got bumped on the way out the door or something and was rubbing.

I was about to recommend checking this before reading all the way through the thread. It's always the simplest problems that are the hardest to solve isn't it? Glad you figured it out though


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## Mike T. (Feb 3, 2004)

nyvram said:


> 2 words: rear. brakepad.


That happened to me on a mountain bike dirt road hard training ride a few years back. I was ok for one long lap and then the bottom fell out. My buddy was easily riding away from me on that 2nd lap. I ate and drank with no improvement. Finally I was down to riding at walking pace with ZERO energy left. I told my bud to ride home alone. Finally I HAD to stop and rest. I even started to walk home as I just had NO power to ride. But the bike wouldn't even PUSH !!

I lifted the front wheel and it wouldn't turn. One of the cantilever brake pivot screws had come loose allowing a pad to drag. Two seconds with a 5mm allen wrench fixed it and I rode home at 16mph. It took me a week to recover from that ride - 30+ miles on the ultimate ergometer. DOHHH!

I e-mailed my bud to tell him what had happened but I could tell he didn't believe me :mad2:


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