# Thinking about 2014 Felt z4



## dd123 (Sep 14, 2012)

Guys,

I ride a 2012 Felt z85 and like the bike and geometry a lot

Now, I am thinking about doing a small upgrade to Felt z5.

The only thing which is making me hesitant is: 
Felt z5 has FSA Omega Crank Set with BB30, I have read that FSA crankset does not go well with 105 thus resulting in poor front shifting.

Also, the BB30 seems to be ridden with clicking issues although my LBS does not think that way.
My LBS may do an upgrade to 105 crankset for $150 or so. I have already been quoted $1450 for 2014 felt z5 in San Diego.

I didn't ride any other bike but like the Felt Z series a lot.
Thanks a lot, 

DD in Sunny San Diego


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## chudak (Jul 28, 2012)

dd123 said:


> Guys,
> 
> I ride a 2012 Felt z85 and like the bike and geometry a lot
> 
> ...


The FSA crankset shifts fine with 105.

I did experience issues early on with BB30 clicking. They resolved it by locktiting in the bearings. Took a few tries to get it fixed but haven't had a problem with it since (clicking has occurred that was unrelated to the BB but that's common with carbon bikes). Another option is to get a BB30 to shimano adapter (like the praxis) and use a shimano BB and crankset if you feel this is worth it.

BTW, I'm in San Diego as well.


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## dd123 (Sep 14, 2012)

Thanks Chudak for the feedback

I have been following your post once in a while and thus I know you are from SD.

I may wait for the crankset upgrade since I don't want to shell out $$ into brand new bike

DD


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## Z'mer (Oct 28, 2013)

dd123 said:


> Guys,
> 
> ...I am thinking about doing a small upgrade to Felt z5.
> 
> ...


I ride a 2013 Z4. 
That is a great price for the Shimano 105 upgrade. I would absolutely do it brand new, and save yourself the hassles later. Well worth it, I now have a 6800 crankset using the wheels adapters on my Z4.

The stock FSA gossamer crank on mine had issues with the chain not releasing from the large ring on the large to small ring shift. This started at about 700 miles. It was coming up and hitting the bottom side of the rear stay, putting some deep scratches in the carbon fiber clear coat. This had been reported by others for this model as well. 
Just saying, I would go with Shimano from new, it's a significant upgrade from the Omega. 

I would also ask them stress release, then true the wheels before delivery. Or just ride it and make sure they true them on the 30 day tune-up. I had some of pinging in the first few miles from the spokes, which required a slight truing touch up. 

Also ask them to upgrade the tires if you can swing it, to Rubino Pro III, GP4000S, or Pro 4 Service Course. You are in a great position when bargaining to buy a new bike, use it.


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## chudak (Jul 28, 2012)

Z'mer said:


> I ride a 2013 Z4.
> That is a great price for the Shimano 105 upgrade. I would absolutely do it brand new, and save yourself the hassles later. Well worth it, I now have a 6800 crankset using the wheels adapters on my Z4.
> 
> The stock FSA gossamer crank on mine had issues with the chain not releasing from the large ring on the large to small ring shift. This started at about 700 miles. It was coming up and hitting the bottom side of the rear stay, putting some deep scratches in the carbon fiber clear coat. This had been reported by others for this model as well.
> ...


I have over 10k miles on my 2013 Z4 and have never had any problems with the front shifting. I'm not saying don't upgrade to a shimano crankset if that's what you really want but I don't think it's a "necessary" upgrade. 

IMO the stock wheels are one of the weakest aspects of the Z4 build. They are heavy and not at all durable. I'm a big guy but I'd expect a 32H rear wheel to last more than 3k miles. I've destroyed two sets of them at this point and neither got much past 3k before showing cracks at the nipple holes. I was able to get the first set replaced under warranty. The second set failed out of warranty and I had to bite the bullet. Frankly, I'd put that $150 towards a wheel upgrade rather than a new crankset. The ride of the Z series with a decent set of wheels is a completely different bike.

As for tires...I'd never ask for a tire upgrade. Just ride the first set until they wear out and then buy what you want to replace them. I've gone through so many tires it really seems a waste of time to waste shop karma on tires.


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## dd123 (Sep 14, 2012)

Thanks Z'mer for the tips, I'd keep them in mind.


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## Z'mer (Oct 28, 2013)

dd123 said:


> Thanks Z'mer for the tips, I'd keep them in mind.


Here's the other guy who had the chain beat up his 2013 Z4 rear stays, same as mine
http://forums.roadbikereview.com/components-wrenching/educate-me-bb30-cranks-313888.html#post4497164

So here's why I said what I did - When parts are brand new and removed from a bike, the shop can sell them to others for a repair or upgrade. But they have to be removed from a brand new bike, never ridden. So things like tires or cranks are fairly easy and cheap to negotiate upgrades on, when they are *new*. 

If you go back after 6 months and ask for a 105 crank upgrade, your old Gossamer crank is now used and has no value to the shop - it will have zero value. Your price now will likely be $300. or more for the same upgrade. 
The Shimano chain rings are an exceptional value compared to other brands, especially the lower model FSA ones. 
Shimano uses a cold forged manufacturing process, which hardens the rings in the tooth area as they are formed. Others like FSA do not cold forge, they use a cheaper machining process. This means the FSA rings are softer and wear quicker. Google it, if you have the interest. 

On tires - again, the shop can re-use new tires, and give you credit. 

To me, tires are like running shoes. And I'm a long time high mileage runner. I never economize on my running shoes, and I would never economize on my bike tires. Life is too short to "grin and bear it" with entry level tires for say, 1000-2000 miles of riding. I want the best tires from the start. You may have to pay an extra $20. - $40. for better tires. It may the best upgrade you can make. Check out latex tubes as well, if you are passionate about road feel from the wheels. 

Hey, no apologies, I grew up on tubular tires glued to Campy wheels, starting in the mid 70's. Once you ride that tubular feel, it's hard to not try and get as close as you can on clinchers.

On wheels - sure, it makes sense to upgrade, but keep your wits. I have zero issues with my Mavic CXP-22 rims/DB spokes/ alloy nipples. I weigh 185, and only have maybe 2500 miles on the bike, purchased August 2013. 

The more you weigh, the faster metal fatigue issues will destroy your wheels, especially the rear. If you look at the metal fatigue curves, the failure time gets exponentially shorter as the load is increased. This applies to both spokes and rims. 

Certainly the CXP-22 is an economy rim, does not use the best Mavic metal. But also a very good value, and for most people under 190 lbs. should last a lot longer than 3K miles. 

Wheels upgrades can get expensive, so my advice to most is optimize your tires and tubes first, and especially get the air pressure right, (not too high) before you go down that road. A decent set of good wheels may be as much as $650 - $800., if you insist on hubs that will last for 20,000 miles. If you go to Bicycle Wheel Warehouse, you can get decent light wheels on winter sale for under $300. delivered. And Velomine on EBay also has decent deals in the $300. range. I have 3 sets of alternate wheels for my Z machine, all cost under $300. - H Plus Son Archetypes / 105 hubs, Mavic Open Pro / Ultegra hubs, BWW Pure Race, Pure hubs. 

Hey, bikes are, in this nutty world, a freedom machine, a personal expression, a simple way to let it go. Go with what rocks you at a gut level. The Z does it for me.


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## FeltF75rider (Feb 10, 2012)

I have never rode a z framed bike but can say this, my F75 has BB30 and has had zero issues. I did change the Gossamar Pro crankset for an FSA K Force light. I shaved almost half a pound and got a carbon armed cranked that looks good and performs well. I never had an issue with the Gossamar but wanted the look and weight savings. I your going to change it, do it right away if you want to recoup any money by selling the omega. 
The Cxp wheel set I got is used for trainer duty only. They are not bad until you ride a decent wheelset, then it's hard to go back.


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## dd123 (Sep 14, 2012)

Thanks Guys to all of you..

Things have changed little bit for me.
The bike shop offered me a brand new 2013 Felt Z3 for 2013 for $2100.
It would be a bit of a stretch for me but I can eat up the cost.

I know it's all mental about ultegra but it'd be sweet to have a ultegra bike with bit upgraded wheel set rs10.
I use this as a commuter ( 10 miles each way ) and biking is my only expensive hobby


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## chudak (Jul 28, 2012)

dd123 said:


> Thanks Guys to all of you..
> 
> Things have changed little bit for me.
> The bike shop offered me a brand new 2013 Felt Z3 for 2013 for $2100.
> ...


That's a great deal. Nothing "mental" about Ultegra. My next bike will most likely have Ultegra Di2 on it ;-)


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## dd123 (Sep 14, 2012)

Thanks Chudak,
The 2013 z3 color scheme would take some time to grow on me.., didn't like it a lot


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## FeltF75rider (Feb 10, 2012)

Sounds like a good deal to me. I have 6700 on my F75. It's good stuff and the carbon frame is definitely worth it. Unless you want the latest and greatest that is a big step up and pretty good discount.


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## dd123 (Sep 14, 2012)

Thanks,
Leaning more towards 2014 Z5 though Ultegra blingness is attractive 

The only upgrade I see going from 2014 Z5 to 2013 Z3 is Ultegra upgrade.
The frame and other things more or less remains the same. The wheels get "upgraded" to shimano rs10 which I think is no upgrade over mavic cxp22

Crankset goes from fsa omega to fsa energy.

Brake calipers goes from no name calipers to 105 calipers..

All these worth $650 ? Not sure. ie $1450 vs $2100


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## bleckb (Jun 13, 2005)

You earlier mentioned this would be a commuter, so I don't know if it will be just that or if you plan to take it out on longer rides when the opportunity arises. If it was me, and my wife would let me, (she does!) I'd keep the old bike for commuting (which I do year round in the wind, rain, snow and occasional bit of sun in Spokane) and get all I could for the fun bike, which is exactly what I'm negotiating over right now with my wife. She rides the Z3 and loves it. 

The new Ultegra is more than bling and probably as good as the older DA I just put on an F4 for my son. Either way, it's damn good stuff and if your frame ever fails out of warrant and you want to upgrade, you have all the components and need only go frame shopping. I'd get the Z3 and after awhile, start looking at a sportier wheelset. After the frame, I think many would agree the second most important, and noticeable aspect of the bike's performance, is the wheels. 

Happy riding whatever you do!


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## dd123 (Sep 14, 2012)

Hi BleckB

The 2013 Felt Z3 comes with older Ultegra which is 6700 series hence it is relatively cheap. I also didn't like the color scheme of 2013 felt z3.
I am in San Diego and there is no snow, wind or rain here  
Everyday is a sunny day and I prefer not to keep 2 bikes as I already have a Marin Hybrid along with my current z85.

thank you


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## bleckb (Jun 13, 2005)

There you have it. While my wife loves her Felt Z3 and the F4 I built for my son rides like a rocket, I'm looking at a 2014 Trek Domane 5.2. Besides 11-speed this year, about the only difference from last year is what I find to be an ugly red-white scheme for the 2013 and a cool matte black for the 2014. It's gonna cost me, in money and matrimonial capital, but since I'll likely ride it for the next 10 years, I think she'll let me spend extra and get the looks I want.


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## Z'mer (Oct 28, 2013)

dd123 said:


> Thanks Chudak,
> The 2013 z3 color scheme would take some time to grow on me.., didn't like it a lot





dd123 said:


> I also didn't like the color scheme of 2013 felt z3.


Regardless of deal, if you don't like (or perhaps *love*) the color, I would let it pass. If it was my new bike, I'd look for, and get the color I wanted. That's a lot of money for something you are not crazy about. Between the 2 models, everything bolts on and is easily replaceable over time, *except the color*.

I'm slowly upgrading my Z4 components, tires/tubes as I see deals and blowouts from the big UK online shops with free shipping. Have little use for 11 speeds, but like the 6800 brakes, crank, and 6700 pedals, derailleurs. Also really like the 105 shifters, will stay with them. Nothing is wasted though, as the old Z4 parts are going to a vintage upgrade that will be built so the wheels and drivetrain are interchangeable with the Z4.


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## chudak (Jul 28, 2012)

dd123 said:


> I also didn't like the color scheme of 2013 felt z3.


I have to agree: I didn't like the ugly gray color of that bike either. The 2014 Z3 is much better.


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## dd123 (Sep 14, 2012)

Thanks GUys,

I am 5'10.5'' and wondering if 54 cm or 56 cm Felt Z* would be a good fit.
I ride Felt z85/54 cm but I think 56cm may be a better fit.

Need to talk to my LBS about this


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## chudak (Jul 28, 2012)

dd123 said:


> Thanks GUys,
> 
> I am 5'10.5'' and wondering if 54 cm or 56 cm Felt Z* would be a good fit.
> I ride Felt z85/54 cm but I think 56cm may be a better fit.
> ...


I'm about your same size and I ride a 56cm Z4. I've ridden 55 and 54cm bikes in the past and they work well if you can get the stem and seatpost dialed in. In general I think the idea is ride the smallest bike you can make work for you.


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## Z'mer (Oct 28, 2013)

The Competitive Cyclist fit calculator is one of the best for self guided fit. 

Bike Fit Calculator | Find Your Bike Size | Competitive Cyclist

You have to be careful, as some recommendations on fit assume you are a flat out racer. I have a local shop that charges folks substantial money to do a fit, when they mostly do what the link above does. 

You need to use more than height and inseam, as everyone is built different in terms of arm to leg length proportions. You really need to get the top tube length as correct as possible. 
And it also depends how you like like to ride, and how fast. The link goes over that, matches for 4 styles, the "french fit" is likely more applicable to people buying a Z bike.


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## bleckb (Jun 13, 2005)

I'd say if a shop charges for fitting you to a bike you are buying from them, you might consider another shop. I did some test riding yesterday and while I've been a patron of the shop for many years, I don't think fit is ever extra. They want happy cyclists and customers, and if that means swapping a stem or saddle to get it dialed in, that's why the lbs is there, to provide that service. It should be built in to the cost of the bike. If it isn't, find a new shop or buy online.


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## Z'mer (Oct 28, 2013)

bleckb said:


> I'd say if a shop charges for fitting you to a bike you are buying from them, you might consider another shop. I did some test riding yesterday and while I've been a patron of the shop for many years, I don't think fit is ever extra. They want happy cyclists and customers, and if that means swapping a stem or saddle to get it dialed in, that's why the lbs is there, to provide that service. It should be built in to the cost of the bike. If it isn't, find a new shop or buy online.


Agree with you on all points there. But let's distinguish between two aspects of what are commonly referred to, generically, as "fit". 
1) You want to know, with no commitment to buy anything, what frame size you need. This happens here on bike forums, or maybe at bike dealers. My response above is basically, you need to supply more than height and inseam (and most people get inseam wrong and use pants inseam) to get a proper answer. My local bike shop in Clifton Park, NY charges 275. to give you this answer. Up the road, at Serotta (or whatever they are called now) in Saratoga Springs they charge 600. for that answer. But you end up with dimensions for a custom bike frame 
2) You decide on a bike and frame, through whatever means, and buy it. The shop who sold it to you fits you on the bike you bought. 

I think you are mostly referring to scenario 2). When I bought my Felt Z4, the shop in Glens Falls NY put me on a trainer and spent maybe 2 hours getting me dialed in on the Z4. For no extra charge. 
But before that, I did the Competitive Cyclist online fit, with 8 or so key body/arm/leg/torso measurements, with my wife's help. This produced personalized frame size numbers for me, which I compared to the Felt frame dimensions. 
So from this, I knew what frame size I needed before I went shopping for bike. 

Get the difference?


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## RoadEye (Aug 21, 2009)

chudak said:


> The FSA crankset shifts fine with 105.
> 
> I did experience issues early on with BB30 clicking. They resolved it by locktiting in the bearings. Took a few tries to get it fixed but haven't had a problem with it since (clicking has occurred that was unrelated to the BB but that's common with carbon bikes). Another option is to get a BB30 to shimano adapter (like the praxis) and use a shimano BB and crankset if you feel this is worth it.


chudak and all... what where they 'symptoms' of the BB30 problem? I am trying to suss a noise issue on my new Z. can't tell if it is the BB30 or the chain hitting the derailleur or ???. it is only making noise in the higher gears, on harder efforts it is really pronounced. got about 300 miles on the bike thus far. had it in the shop this past Saturday to get adjusted. yet that noise still persists.


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## bleckb (Jun 13, 2005)

Z'mer said:


> Agree with you on all points there. But let's distinguish between two aspects of what are commonly referred to, generically, as "fit".
> 1) You want to know, with no commitment to buy anything, what frame size you need. This happens here on bike forums, or maybe at bike dealers. My response above is basically, you need to supply more than height and inseam (and most people get inseam wrong and use pants inseam) to get a proper answer. My local bike shop in Clifton Park, NY charges 275. to give you this answer. Up the road, at Serotta (or whatever they are called now) in Saratoga Springs they charge 600. for that answer. But you end up with dimensions for a custom bike frame
> 2) You decide on a bike and frame, through whatever means, and buy it. The shop who sold it to you fits you on the bike you bought.
> 
> ...


I'm totally with you on that and may have misunderstood the original point. My guess is those who go in for the "fit kit" treatment, call it what we will, know they will be paying for that specialized service, usually as they get measured for a custom frame or something more precise. 

For me, as I'm shopping for a bike right now, I'm trying to be fair about the time my regular and other shops are putting into me in the hopes of a sale. If I buy a Trek it will be from my regular shop because I like them and they have earned my service and respect over the years. If I do a test ride at a shop, and I want that bike, I'll buy from that shop, not go online. I think that's lousy and hurts local shops. And like the guy at the shop I was at yesterday said, stems and such, the little things that go into getting the chosen bike to fit, that's all part of the sale price. But I won't be working the guy to death as I would if I were paying the few hundred bucks for a fit like you describe.


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## chudak (Jul 28, 2012)

RoadEye said:


> chudak and all... what where they 'symptoms' of the BB30 problem? I am trying to suss a noise issue on my new Z. can't tell if it is the BB30 or the chain hitting the derailleur or ???. it is only making noise in the higher gears, on harder efforts it is really pronounced. got about 300 miles on the bike thus far. had it in the shop this past Saturday to get adjusted. yet that noise still persists.


The BB30 problems manifest as a loud "click", typically at one or more spots on the pedal rotation. When you are riding it will sound not akin to a metronome. In my case the problem would appear over a few hundred miles, intermittently at first and then finally loudly on nearly every pedal turn.

Lots of things can creak on a carbon bike. Some other things that have caused noise on my bike: headset, seatpost.


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## RoadEye (Aug 21, 2009)

chudak said:


> The BB30 problems manifest as a loud "click", typically at one or more spots on the pedal rotation. When you are riding it will sound not akin to a metronome. In my case the problem would appear over a few hundred miles, intermittently at first and then finally loudly on nearly every pedal turn.
> 
> Lots of things can creak on a carbon bike. Some other things that have caused noise on my bike: headset, seatpost.


thank you, good info. this is not so much a click but, sounds like the chain rubbing. best I can tell, same spot in the pedal stroke. I know noises can come from anywhere and last week I was sure it was the chain. even after the adjustment I am not sure that it is not it. at least the weather is finally starting to turn and I can get more that 1 or 2 rides a week in and try and track this down. thanks again.


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## NorCal FNG (Dec 29, 2012)

dd123 said:


> Guys,
> 
> I ride a 2012 Felt z85 and like the bike and geometry a lot
> 
> ...


My Z4 had never ending front shift problems/chain suck with the FSA chainrings. I would highly recommend the 105 upgrade or changing out the chainrings for a set from Praxis.

Not everyone has front shifting problems with FSA rings but if you do chain suck could easily destroy your frame and from what I gather Felt does not warranty frames that have frame suck damage.


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