# Michelin vs Vittoria vs Continental ???



## pmf (Feb 23, 2004)

I'm looking at buying some tires from one of these UK mail order places (Ribble seems to have the best deals). I'm looking at three contenders:

Continental GP 4000 (w/ Black Chili?)
I've used Continental tires in the distant past and found that they wore pretty fast, but rode nicely. Anyone used the GP 4000, and what about "Black Chili"? -- sounds like a marketing gimmick to me. 

Michelin Pro Race 3
I've been using Michelin Pro Race 3 tires lately and been happy with them. They don't last as long as advertised, but they wear reasonably well and ride nicely. 

Vittoria Open Corsa EVO
Never used Vittoria tires, but I've always been curious. Seems like the Open Corsa EVO is on par with the others. Is there a better version? Approximately the same price point. 

I don't race bikes, but I do like to ride and own nice bikes. I've always felt that good rubber is worth the money. Anyone have any opinions on these? 

Thanks for reading.


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## Hank Stamper (Sep 9, 2009)

The Vittoria will give you best ride but you pay for that with really quick wear and not much flat protection compared to the GP4000.

If you only ride nice roads, ride quality is priority #1 and don't mind paying for an extra tire or two or three per year you may as well use those but if you're a little more practical go with the GP4000. 

Or get both so next time you know which to stock up on.


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## filtersweep (Feb 4, 2004)

I agree-- and would not place that particular Vittoria in that crowd. The Rubino Pro Slick is more on par with the peers mentioned. The Open Corsa is a very nice tire.



Hank Stamper said:


> The Vittoria will give you best ride but you pay for that with really quick wear and not much flat protection compared to the GP4000.
> 
> If you only ride nice roads, ride quality is priority #1 and don't mind paying for an extra tire or two or three per year you may as well use those but if you're a little more practical go with the GP4000.
> 
> Or get both so next time you know which to stock up on.


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## Kerry Irons (Feb 25, 2002)

*Conti data*



pmf said:


> I've used Continental tires in the distant past and found that they wore pretty fast, but rode nicely. Anyone used the GP 4000, and what about "Black Chili"? -- sounds like a marketing gimmick to me.


The "Black Chili" designation is to contrast with the silica used in their colored tires. Whether the carbon black is all that special is open to debate, but their black tires definitely wear better than their colored tires. A GP4000 black is essentially the same tire as a GP4000S and will give you good wear, good rolling resistance, and good traction. You will always find someone saying that XYZ tires are better than all the rest, but in practice you should buy on price and color. Look for tires on sale. There's not that much difference in comparable tires from major manufacturers.


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## pmf (Feb 23, 2004)

Kerry Irons said:


> The "Black Chili" designation is to contrast with the silica used in their colored tires. Whether the carbon black is all that special is open to debate, but their black tires definitely wear better than their colored tires. A GP4000 black is essentially the same tire as a GP4000S and will give you good wear, good rolling resistance, and good traction. You will always find someone saying that XYZ tires are better than all the rest, but in practice you should buy on price and color. Look for tires on sale. There's not that much difference in comparable tires from major manufacturers.


All three of these are around the same price -- The Michelin and Contis are $32, the Vittoria $36. That's about half of retail, which is about what I usually find them for if I look. 

Black tires are like a white dress shirt -- they go with anything, but are kind of boring. 

Do you really notice a better or worse ride with tires of comparable price/quality? I kind of doubt I would.


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## apoint (Nov 22, 2010)

Victtoria's are a lot heavier and wear fast. Michelin pro race are the best choice with 2200 mile and least rolling resistance, also best price on ebay...


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## Ghost234 (Jun 1, 2010)

Conti GP4000 are extremely durable. They are decent rolling, not the fastest but they certainly get the job done. 


Vittoria evo corsa CX is a fast rolling tire. Likely the fastest one I've tried in my experience. Its more of a racing tire. I only use these for racing style events because of how quickly it wears out. 

Michellin pro race 3. Decent. I personally didn't like them because Conti and vittoria serviced my needs exactly and didn't need a 3rd set kicking around.


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## otiebob (Jun 25, 2002)

Veloflex Corsa/Black from probikekit.com. A better tire than all the above - amazing grip, supple feel, lightweight, and last as long as the Michelin Pro Race 3s. Won't last as long as the Continentals but way better grip in wet conditions/cornering.


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## mmcycle10 (Oct 7, 2010)

Just ordered a pair of GP4000S delivered for under $70...never done business with Ribble, so hoping all goes well for that price...


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## Bridgey (Mar 26, 2003)

I had a similar dilemma. I love the Pro 3's and Vittoria Corsa's because of speed, but puncture resistance and durability were suspect. The GP4000 had sufficient speed but better puncture protection and durability and gave me more peace of mind. 

So what I did was ride with the Conti GP4000 on the rear and put either a Pro 3 or Vittoria Corsa on the front. Best of both worlds. 

When racing, I needed to ask myself the question. Would the GP4000's be the difference between winning and losing. I doubt it in most cases. A flat tyre however will. Better to go with peace of mind on the rear at least.


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## apoint (Nov 22, 2010)

In an independant rolling resistance test , the top three, least resistance in order are.
1 Deda Tre Giro ditalia. 
2 victtoria oc evo cx. heavy
3 Michelin pro 3 race. 200g lite, great milage. Best all round tire...
The diffrence in rolling resistance can hardly be measured between the 3...... Thats why Michelin pro 3 are great at a best of price.


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## apoint (Nov 22, 2010)

Wrong my man. here is the rolling resistance chart..
http://www.terrymorse.com/bike/rolres.html


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## apoint (Nov 22, 2010)

Contientals have higher rolling resistance


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## apoint (Nov 22, 2010)

Sorry, Im still learning how to use this forum posting. I tryed to delet this last post??


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## apoint (Nov 22, 2010)

I removed this because it was old data.


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## SBH1973 (Nov 21, 2002)

I'm riding the tubular version of the GP4000 right now, and I still think the Vittoria Open Corsa CX is the better tire. I had (and am still having, I guess - I just changed wheelsets) great luck with them on my Ksyrium SLs - 1800 or so miles without a hitch and they still have some life left. I have a set of new GP4000 clinchers to replace them with, but I might sell them and get another set of Corsas (although my experience with the Corsas was, it seems, atypical.)


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## Salsa_Lover (Jul 6, 2008)

the Vittorias are on another level. not even a fair comparison here

Vittorias can be compared with Veloflex, Challenge, FMBs etc.


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## jmchapple (Feb 8, 2007)

*Don't use Vittoria if you want durability*



Hank Stamper said:


> The Vittoria will give you best ride but you pay for that with really quick wear and not much flat protection compared to the GP4000.
> 
> +1


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## pmf (Feb 23, 2004)

OK, so I've added the Veloflex Corsa black and the Vittoria Rubino Pro Slick to the list. 

As usual, there's no consensus on what the best tire is. What a surprise. 

Of the original contenders, I gather:

1. The Continentals seem to be agreed to as the longest wearing, but pooorest performing tire. 
2. The Vittorias are God's gift to performance, but wear fast and are heavy (not true according to Ribble's website -- they weigh 210 grams, same as Contis, 10 grams more than the Michelins).
3. The Michelins seem to be the hybrid bike of the crowd -- they're OK at everything (wearing and riding), but don't excel in anything. 

The Veloflex are a couple bucks more than the Vittorias. Do they ride as well and wear better?

The Rubino Pros sure are cheap at $20.50 -- almost half what the Veloflex go for. What's their Achilles heel? With five bikes under the roof, $20 tires are appealing.


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## strathconaman (Jul 3, 2003)

You said good tires are worth the money. If that is the case, get the vittorias or the veloflex. They are both excellent tires. I race vittoria clinchers and tubulars and get 1000-1500 km out of them. Then the rear tire is shot and it is time for a new one.

Then you tell us that $20 tires are appealing. If that is the case, get the longest wearing tire you can and don't worry about performance. Rubino's, Continental 4 seasons, Schwalbe Duranos, will all last a really long time. Although I find conti tires "square" off much faster.


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## otiebob (Jun 25, 2002)

pmf said:


> OK, so I've added the Veloflex Corsa black and the Vittoria Rubino Pro Slick to the list.
> 
> As usual, there's no consensus on what the best tire is. What a surprise.
> 
> ...


Veloflex are made in the old factory,and by the workers, who used to make Vittoria in Italy. When Vittotia off-shored their factories to Asia, the workers themselves bought the factory and started Veloflex which is very cool. I think the Veloflex tires are the closest ride to a true tubular of any clincher and are amazing in turns and inclement weather. The Vittoria Corsas are probably a close second. Neither of these will last as long as the Continentals so you have to decide which is more important.

The Rubinos are a good tire but do not have anywhere near the grip or ride quality of the ones above. Still, they make a great training tire and are inexpensive.


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## avatar78 (Sep 12, 2005)

PLEASE, just make sure you select the right tire. Choose unwisely, and your life will become a graveyard of broken dreams. Take it from me. I bought a nashbar tire for commuting. The price was right and it had kevlar. Next thing I knew, my wife was gone, I had no job to commute to, and my bike was stolen. The thief left the wheels: a final twist of the knife. It may take a year or two without riding to parse out what is the perfect tire. Perhaps longer as models are dropped and new ones introduced. But it will be time VERY well spent.


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## pmf (Feb 23, 2004)

avatar78 said:


> PLEASE, just make sure you select the right tire. Choose unwisely, and your life will become a graveyard of broken dreams. Take it from me. I bought a nashbar tire for commuting. The price was right and it had kevlar. Next thing I knew, my wife was gone, I had no job to commute to, and my bike was stolen. The thief left the wheels: a final twist of the knife. It may take a year or two without riding to parse out what is the perfect tire. Perhaps longer as models are dropped and new ones introduced. But it will be time VERY well spent.


This is exactly what I fear. I guess I'll stay with the Michelins.


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## tom_h (May 6, 2008)

apoint said:


> Wrong my man. here is the rolling resistance chart..
> http://www.terrymorse.com/bike/rolres.html


That Jobst Brandt data is ancient: c.1999. Tires have changed significantly since then.
Also, the "coast down" test seems to confound with friction of the roller drum, not clear to me how they subtract that out reliably.

A more recent , powermeter-based measurement of rolling resistance is here, "Al Morrison's Roller Data" :
http://biketechreview.com/tires/rolling-resistance/475-roller-data

At 25mph & 100 lb load, the power losses for one tire are copied below. These tests were on a _smooth roller_, it's stated a typical road surface will produce _50-100% higher rolling resistance_.

Latex tube will typically produce about 2 watts lower power loss, than ordinary butyl tubes.

I've used all 3 tires, and I include my actual measured weights.

*1)* Vittoria Open Corsa Evo 320 tpi CX (23mm) + Mich Latex tube 
*12.3 watts*
tire 210g
tube 75g

*2)* Continental GP 4000*S* (23mm) + Mich Latex tube 
*14 watts*
tire 217g
tube 75g

*3)* Michelin Pro 3 Race (23mm) + Mich Latex tube 
*15.1 watts*
tire 207g
tube 75g

*4)* Continental GP 4000 (23mm) + Mich Latex tube 
*18.9 watts.* I've never used the "plain" GP4000.
(_edited & corrected: #4 is non-S tire_)

The top 3 all pretty close in power losses, with the edge to Vittoria -- probably because of its ultra-supple and smooth 320 TPi carcass.

The plain GP4000 is rather sucky insofar as power losses -- 5 W worse per tire x 2 tires x 150% "real road effect" = 15 watts. Not of concern for training or recreational use, but significant for any competition -- that's ~6% of my FTP !!

Having used # 1-3, I'd further rate:

1) ride quality: Vittoria (best), Michelin Pro3Race, Conti GP4000S.
2) tread life: Conti GP4000S (best), Michelin Pro3, Vittoria.
3) road hazard (cuts & tears): GP4000S (best), Vittoria , Michelin Pro3Race.

A year ago I went to Vittoria Open Corsa over the Mich P3R. The P3R also had a tendency toward sidewall & tread fine "cracks" which I found disconcerting, although I never had an actual failure from that.

I'm now slowly migrating toward GP4000S as my "everyday" tire ... a pretty good racing tire with decent durability.

Vittoria Open Corsa will remain my race tire, or whenever I want balls-out handling and performance.


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## frdfandc (Nov 27, 2007)

I personally think that the Vittoria Diamante Pro is closer to the Conti & Michelin, than the Rubino Pro.


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## samh (May 5, 2004)

*tire rolling ressistance test*



tom_h said:


> That Jobst Brandt data is ancient: c.1999. Tires have changed significantly since then.
> Also, the "coast down" test seems to confound with friction of the roller drum, not clear to me how they subtract that out reliably.
> 
> A more recent , powermeter-based measurement of rolling resistance is here, "Al Morrison's Roller Data" :
> ...


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## apoint (Nov 22, 2010)

Did not know my data was old but still very similar results. Thanks for the up date


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## tom_h (May 6, 2008)

samh said:


> ... #2 and #4 are the same (both gp4000s black 23mm latex)? Or is #4 non "S"


Arrgh! My bad! Thx for catching this.

#4 is supposed to be the non-S, "plain", GP4000 tire. I corrected my my previous post.


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## Bridgey (Mar 26, 2003)

I've tried nearly every tyre. For racing, Conti GP4000S (chilli pepper) on the back and either Vittoria Corsa or MIchi Pro 3's on the front.

Training: Michelin Kyrlion Carbon's all the way. Seem like a thicker version of Pro 3's. 

I found the Rubino pro's seem to use a different rubber which seems to pick up glass, etc easier. They have good puncture resistance but cut easy. Conti Gatorskins square off and aren't as fast, but good puncture resistance.


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## mattotoole (Jan 3, 2008)

I'll vote for the Krylion Carbon - like the Pro3 but the carbon black resists cuts better and lasts 30-50% longer.

Instead of the Vittoria Corsa you should look at the Vittoria Pave. I've had great luck with these and the old CX TT, which is similar. They're almost as durable as the Krylion, and ride better.

You can't go wrong with the 4000s.

For me the differences are so marginal that cost per mile becomes important.


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## Gervase (Aug 22, 2009)

I ride gp 4000s, I feel they are every bit as fast as the pro 3, but a hell of alot more resistant. The pro's puncture very easily, in new Zealand we have rough chip on our roads, but glass will go straight through a michellin, the gp's seem quite resistant. I have not ridden the vittoria evos as here they are very expensive well over a hundred ea


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## pigpen (Sep 28, 2005)

I had a heck of a time getting the conti gp4000 on my rims.
Punctured 2 or 3 tubes in the process. I sold them to a friend unused.
No way I was going to be in that position on the side of the road.

Bought some Krylions / Carbons and they wore like iron but rode like crap. Great winter/commuting tire.

The Corsa CX is a great tire. I actually got *really* good milage on the 290tpi version.
Squared the rear and replaced with a 320 version and it lasted 6 miles. Yes six miles.Wet road and I was just in the wrong place at the wrong time. Replaced with a..

Pro Race 3. So far so good. Decent wear but not near as nice of a tire as the Vittoria CX.

Next tires will be Rubino Pro.


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## Gervase (Aug 22, 2009)

Hard to fit, is a feature of the conti GP4000 S, Mainly on Deep riims. Yes hard to fit.....at first, but they seem to stretch and I had been using them as Race tyres, and rotating them to trainers as they got old. 

This is where I learned how amazing they truly are, as they are extremely durable, My wife threw away a pair after 8500 km because she thought, they must be worn out. Despite my protestations she ditched them as she said, "i don't want to hold up the group if I get a flat, and they must be due for one" she had only 1 flat in all those Kms.

Rubinos for me last 3000km and the canvas is coming through. contis well so far double that nearly, and one (pinch flat).
I think the Corsa might be a faster tyre, (say might, see the tour magazine results) but I hear alot from people about how they can flat very quickly straight out of the box?
One more thing is riders notice that the Contis get little cuts in them. This seems to be what happens, but wether it is glass that has been picked up and come back out, or just cut the tyre, who knows. The thing is their Vectran or what ever, layer, seems to give the tyres a very high degree of puncture resistance, unparellelled except in Armadillos, which are soooo much heavier, why bother? Training sure, but contis seem to be as good, and when on special, (can be $120-130 retail), but also special down to $60 through Torpedo 7 here in NZ,


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