# How do I fit a Road bike when I'm 5'10 with a 28 inch inseam!?



## Agwan (Feb 18, 2011)

So yeah, I got tiny legs. long freaking torso. and I'm new to Road bikes, though I'm well versed in MTB fit.

I have no idea how to fit a bike, when my inseam says I need a 49, but my height says a 56?


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## mohair_chair (Oct 3, 2002)

Just split the difference and be done with it. 

Kidding, of course. Without knowing whose frame you are talking about, those numbers don't mean much. (But I also find it hard to imagine that someone 5'10 would fit on a 49 from any maker.) 

If you don't know what size to get, I'd recommend you go visit a shop that will sell you a bike with the best possible fit.


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## andulong (Nov 23, 2006)

custom frame?


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## Drew Eckhardt (Nov 11, 2009)

Agwan said:


> So yeah, I got tiny legs. long freaking torso. and I'm new to Road bikes, though I'm well versed in MTB fit.
> 
> I have no idea how to fit a bike, when my inseam says I need a 49, but my height says a 56?


You probably buy a custom frame or perhaps settle for something you can't stand over.

At 5'10" with a 30.5" inseam with traditional geometry I have a 55 cm (center to top) seat tube, 55.5cm top tube, and 120mm stem.

Stems are only available out to 140mm, and you loose some of that making the bar higher when it's not a -17 degree stem.


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## Agwan (Feb 18, 2011)

the bike I want is a Traitor Ruben. it comes in 49,53,56 and 59.

I have Found a shop that sells them. but they have none in stock. and will not stock them unless its purchased.

I stood over a Raleigh RX 1.0 that I was told was 56 and it was several inches to tall for me.

but I couldn't find the frame size on the bike. so the kid in the shop may have been wrong on that number.


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## Trek2.3 (Sep 13, 2009)

*Try the Trek Madone 5.2 in 50cm*. 

You'll just be able to standover it. The TT is rather long and you can add a long stem plus a setback seat post. A problem might be seat top to pedal distance because the ISP limits seat mast adjustment.

They are easy to find. Go try one, you might like it.


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## Agwan (Feb 18, 2011)

yeah, I'm not spending 3,000 dollars on a bike.

more like 1,400

And sadly I don't like Treks.

thank you for the advice though!

Whatever I buy will need to be steel and probably have discs.


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## PJ352 (Dec 5, 2007)

Agwan said:


> yeah, I'm not spending 3,000 dollars on a bike.
> 
> more like 1,400
> 
> ...


Assuming your inseam is a _cycling_ inseam and correct, nothing short of custom is going to work very well for you. 

I suggest contacting Curtlo and discussing your needs with Doug. His custom road/ cyclocross frames (with custom geo) run about $1k, so you may have to up your budget some.
http://curtlo.com/index.html


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## Agwan (Feb 18, 2011)

PJ352 said:


> Assuming your inseam is a _cycling_ inseam and correct, nothing short of custom is going to work very well for you.
> 
> I suggest contacting Curtlo and discussing your needs with Doug. His custom road/ cyclocross frames (with custom geo) run about $1k, so you may have to up your budget some.
> http://curtlo.com/index.html



took a book, a string with a washer on the end. put it snug in my crotch, then measured the string. got 28.5 inches.

thats how I was taught to measure cyclist inseams.

I cant and won't spend a thousand bucks on JUST a road frame. I won't be spending 3,000 on a bike.

I will be buying decent reliable parts. not the best parts ever in the world.

Custom is not an option right now.

I'm working on getting enough money for a wheelset and a frame. and everything else this bike starts with is gonna be Junk.

So no matter how nice those Curtlo frames look (and they do appear awesome)

they're just not an option for me right now.


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## MerlinAma (Oct 11, 2005)

Agwan said:


> ...........I have no idea how to fit a bike, when my inseam says I need a 49, but my height says a 56?


Why not a bike with a compact (sloping top tube) frame? A 56 virtual size would give you proper reach yet standover height would not be a problem.

The only issue I can think of may be saddle setback.


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## PJ352 (Dec 5, 2007)

Agwan said:


> *took a book, a string with a washer on the end. put it snug in my crotch, then measured the string. got 28.5 inches.
> 
> thats how I was taught to measure cyclist inseams.*
> 
> ...


Ok, first things first. Here's a more 'accepted' way of measuring inseam.

Stand with your back against a wall, your bare feet 6" apart on a hard floor, looking straight ahead. Place a book or carpenter's square between your legs with one edge against the wall, and pull it up firmly into your crotch, simulating the pressure of your saddle while riding. Have a helper measure from the top edge of the book to the floor, in centimeters. (You can convert inches to centimeters by multiplying inches by 2.54.) Repeat two or three times, for consistency, and average the results to get your inseam length.


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## PJ352 (Dec 5, 2007)

MerlinAma said:


> Why not a bike with a compact (sloping top tube) frame? A 56 virtual size would give you proper reach yet standover height would not be a problem.
> 
> The only issue I can think of may be saddle setback.


I'm not following you. If the OP's cycling inseam is around 28.5 inches he needs a bike with a standover in the 700mm range. Even a 49cm Specialized Secteur has a standover of 730. A 56cm has a standover a shade under 800mm's.


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## Agwan (Feb 18, 2011)

Okay, just did that. gained a whole 8th of an inch.

I'm reading up on the Virtual/actual frame size thing now.

EDIT: Got on the Wrench Science site, did the measurements their way. this is what I got.










they don't seem to account stem length, though.


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## PJ352 (Dec 5, 2007)

Agwan said:


> Okay, just did that. gained a whole 8th of an inch.


So your cycling inseam is just under 29 inches. Ideally, standover should be no more than 28 inches (about 710mm's), but depending on the cycling shoes chosen, you could add about 10-15mm's to that. 



Agwan said:


> I'm reading up on the Virtual/actual frame size thing now.


Most people proportioned as you are (short legs/ long torso) do benefit from compact geo bikes (sloping top tubes). Problem is, you're proportioned to an extent that even compact geo may not help you. 

Thus far, the closest I've come to a bike that may fit you is the Specialized Secteur in a 49cm. Standover is 730 which is basically your inseam making it (literally) a close fit, and you'd have to run (about) a 130mm stem, but it might be worth a look.


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## Agwan (Feb 18, 2011)

Its so much easier on Dirt Jump bikes. cockpit LENGTH was all that mattered!

this is the bike I'm trying to fit.









and this is the spec's they give.










Trying to figure out if 49 or 53 is the least evil. but without standovers... I have no idea.

Also, it will be a FLAT BAR/RISER BAR cockpit. not drop bar.


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## TomH (Oct 6, 2008)

If you tried to ride a 49cm bike, your legs might fit, but the frame would be way too small for you. You're much much better off on a compact frame with the seat lower than usual so you can get the proper reach.


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## Agwan (Feb 18, 2011)

So the 53 is probably the best choice?


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## pdh777 (Oct 7, 2005)

According to wrench science you are 5 feet 6 inches tall - not 5"11"

5'6" would be much easire to fit with the rest of your measurements.


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## PJ352 (Dec 5, 2007)

Just a guess, but based on the BB drop and seat tube measurement of 490mm's, I'd say that standover is going to be in the 760mm range.


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## PJ352 (Dec 5, 2007)

Agwan said:


> So the 53 is probably the best choice?


No. Standover on the 53cm would be around 800mm's.


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## Agwan (Feb 18, 2011)

pdh777 said:


> According to wrench science you are 5 feet 6 inches tall - not 5"11"
> 
> 5'6" would be much easire to fit with the rest of your measurements.


What?!

maybe it tried to auto correct.

Sadly When I measured my height I had shrunk an inch and a half... with no shoes. xD!

but yeah, that should be 5 foot 9 and a half.


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## PJ352 (Dec 5, 2007)

Agwan said:


> What?!
> 
> maybe it tried to auto correct.
> 
> ...


It doesn't really matter. Your height is pretty much moot at this point because standover requirements are barely met with 49cm frames.


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## Agwan (Feb 18, 2011)

So should I stop looking at road bikes? maybe instead build up something like a Karate Monkey?


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## PJ352 (Dec 5, 2007)

Agwan said:


> So should I stop looking at road bikes? maybe instead build up something like a Karate Monkey?


The standover on the small is 760mm's. No gain there.


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## pdh777 (Oct 7, 2005)

66 inches = 5'6" correct?

Just saying that with his short standover, he could probably work with a 51cm and a long stem. My wife has a similar inseam and uses a 51cm with a short stem - she is 5'2".

You may want to look for a used LeMond in 49 - 51 - they had longer top tubes than many brands.

Further he wears a 12.5 shoe - gotta watch that toe overlap with some of those smaller frames.

Final recommendation - Save your money, be patient and buy custom


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## PJ352 (Dec 5, 2007)

pdh777 said:


> 66 inches = 5'6" correct?
> 
> Just saying that with his short standover, he could probably work with a 51cm and a long stem. My wife has a similar inseam and uses a 51cm with a short stem - she is 5'2".
> 
> ...


Yes, 66 inches is 5'6", but if the OP's standover requirements are in the 710mm range, that's the stumbling block, not reach. We haven't yet found a frame that really meets his standover requirements. Until that's done, IMO we're not yet ready to focus on reach requirements.

Yes, I agree that custom is the obvious fix here.


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## Agwan (Feb 18, 2011)

69.5, not 66. that was a snafu with the site's fit program.

but yeah, the thing is. time and money are both a factor. I need a bike NOW because I've gotta sell my car and move far away.

the bike I ride is a beat, super-heavy dirt jump bike. its not got a lot of life left in it.

I'd love to do custom. I bet one day I will. but I need something soon, and something under 1,500 dollars.

and I know this bike has to last 3 years of being rode 10 miles a day, 6 days a week. or at least be on the road that long with no major down time.

so one day a custom frameset, sure. but... with going to college and being poor. that's gonna be a while.


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## pdh777 (Oct 7, 2005)

Have you thought about a hybrid - where measurements are important but not nearly as critical as with a road bike + you could save some money with this type of bike. Trek FX 7.3 and similar.
10 miles a day is really not that long and this type of bike could easily handle that ride. Further you could use some of the saved money to buy a second set of wheels with different tires than the original pair to give you versatility. One set, skinny tires for more speed - One set with fatter / maybe knobby cross type tires for winter and trails. This option gives you more flexability with fit + it can handle racks and carry loads which may be important for you. 

If you are set on a road bike bike LeMond is the only maker I know of that had a stretched out top tube on many models - maybe someone else knows of other brands - not convinced that you would find what you need with this option though. 

The reality is you have unique fit requirements and the hybrid would be a better option than something that just plain doesn't fit such as a non custom road bike in your case.


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## TomH (Oct 6, 2008)

I dont know why standover is being focused on so much.. its by no means a way to fit yourself onto a bike. 

You need to hit the lbs and actually try some bikes. 15 minutes in the bike shop beats hours staring at online calculators. You'll get definitive answers really quick actually riding them.


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## AndrwSwitch (May 28, 2009)

Actually, the Karate Monkey idea was not a bad one.

So here's my take on it - I had an idea a couple years ago that it would be fun to build up a road bike from a MTB frame. It didn't take me much research to realize that I'd have to size way down, and I'd still end up with too much reach, and a bike that would murder my back. But I have average proportions.

So for you, it could be more workable.

Start with a XC MTB with better measurements for you, stick pretty much the same build kit on it that you wanted for the Ruben, and you're good. It might even be cheaper. There are some excellent XC frames kicking around for as little as $300.

There are a few pitfalls to bear in mind. The chainstays on a mountain bike can have clearance problems with road cranks. If you stick a 390mm axel-crown road fork on the front, it's going to steepen things a lot, and lower your bottom bracket. You need to make sure you're not restricted to a weird headset, unless you can also get the right reducer or whatever for it. Finally, you may not be equipped to own something that awesome. 

If you're going disc, the brakes issue doesn't exist, and a 700C wheel with a reasonable, even including 35mm, tire fits in a 26" hardtail frame fine, on almost all of them. The outside diameter of a fat-tired MTB wheel is quite a lot.


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## Agwan (Feb 18, 2011)

I've WORKED (albeit minimally) at local Bike Shops. I just never got around to learning Road Bike stuff. 

I have to admit for someone that can answer questions all day long about freeride bikes. its a bit embarassing that I know so little about Road fit.

I do know that I want something lightish, steel if at all possible. flat bar and discs

Component quality is also a concern. so that Trek FX 7.3 really doesn't appeal. sorry.


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## Agwan (Feb 18, 2011)

AndrwSwitch said:


> Actually, the Karate Monkey idea was not a bad one.
> 
> So here's my take on it - I had an idea a couple years ago that it would be fun to build up a road bike from a MTB frame. It didn't take me much research to realize that I'd have to size way down, and I'd still end up with too much reach, and a bike that would murder my back. But I have average proportions.
> 
> ...


Sorry! didn't see your post when I posted! thank you for this info! its actually really helpful!

I am really used to MTB geometry, so maybe keeping the geometry of a MTB is really a good idea. then I can try and spec it as light as possible?


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## pdh777 (Oct 7, 2005)

Well - you are on a budget so there could be a component compromise you have to make - you have fitment challenges so you are limited to what you can comfortably ride.

BTW the Trek hybrid is just a suggestion and does have discs and flat bars - there are many other brands that make similar hybrids with discs in the same ballpark price - you can expect Deore LX or Tiagra level drivetrains.

Good Luck!


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## AndrwSwitch (May 28, 2009)

Some other things to consider...

The Cannondale Bad Boy has, historically, been a 26" MTB that comes out of the box with 700C wheels. So you could ride it stock or, if it's still not long enough for you, switch to drop bars. That would be a somewhat expensive, but feasible project.

The Cotic Roadrat is a road frame that comes in both a geometry intended for flat bars and a geometry intended for drop bars. The flat bar version runs about 3cm longer in any given nominal size. It's got a sloping top tube, so a size with the appropriate reach for you may still give you the clearance you want.


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## Agwan (Feb 18, 2011)

thanks guys!


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## PJ352 (Dec 5, 2007)

TomH said:


> I dont know why standover is being focused on so much.. its by no means a way to fit yourself onto a bike.


Actually, it is. It's not *the* fit parameter to live by, but along with reach and drop, assuming that at some point the rider will straddle the bike, it's an important one.

I've suggested a couple of road bikes that I see as having the minimal clearance the OP needs, and they'd probably require a ~130mm stem. 



TomH said:


> You need to hit the lbs and actually try some bikes. 15 minutes in the bike shop beats hours staring at online calculators. You'll get definitive answers really quick actually riding them.


I agree, but given the OP's proportions, rather than waste a lot of time visiting several shops, IMO it would be advantageous to see what makes/ models are at least close to meeting his geo requirements.


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## PJ352 (Dec 5, 2007)

AndrwSwitch said:


> The Cotic Roadrat is a road frame that comes in both a geometry intended for flat bars and a geometry intended for drop bars. The flat bar version runs about 3cm longer in any given nominal size. It's got a sloping top tube, so a size with the appropriate reach for you may still give you the clearance you want.


The BB drop (which affects standover) is on the high side, but with sloping TT and a c-t seat tube measurement of 46 for the small, it might be worth a look. 

There's an email address that the OP can contact them and (hopefully) get additional info:
http://www.cotic.co.uk/product/roadrat


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## Agwan (Feb 18, 2011)

Not gonna lie... that Roadrat is UGLY.


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## TomH (Oct 6, 2008)

PJ352 said:


> Actually, it is. It's not *the* fit parameter to live by, but along with reach and drop, assuming that at some point the rider will straddle the bike, it's an important one.


I just straddled my 50cm compact. I could be 3 inches shorter and still stand over it.. all though I cant remember the last time I actually had to straddle the bike. 

Standover wise, the OP would fit any wide range of 50cm compacts in terms of standover. Would probably even fit 52cm compacts, which should be long enough to fit his reach too. 

Thats the typical "medium" compact frame, which is going to be the most common size. A quick trip to the lbs to try on medium compacts would probably result in a few good fits.

Just trying to say that the OP's situation really isnt that dismal. A slightly longer than average compact will do it.


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## PJ352 (Dec 5, 2007)

TomH said:


> I just straddled my 50cm compact. I could be 3 inches shorter and still stand over it.. all though I cant remember the last time I actually had to straddle the bike.
> 
> Standover wise, the OP would fit any wide range of 50cm compacts in terms of standover. Would probably even fit 52cm compacts, which should be long enough to fit his reach too.
> 
> ...


Not trying to be snarky, and I'm glad you can straddle your 50cm frame, but you're not the OP. And 'would probably even fit 52cm compacts' isn't anything more than pure conjecture and (generally speaking) isn't consistent with the OP's inseam/ most standovers of frames in that range. 

I agree that the OP has some options available and I've offered some suggestions along the way, but I do think that even when taking pedal stack into consideration, around a 730mm standover will be max. And (as previously mentioned) I also agree that some trips to LBS's will serve to affirm that... or prove me wrong.


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## TomH (Oct 6, 2008)

I just realized I left that out, my cycling inseam is less than half an inch more than the OP's. With a little margin of error for measuring, its valid info. Im 5'7 or 8. ~29 inseam. 

If we have the same inseam, we're both going to have the same stand over. the rest is going to be reach issues. If I have so much clearance over a 50cm, he might even be able to go a couple cm up if that nets him a longer top tube and a better fit. 

If anything, my bike is a little bit too long. I could go 10-15mm shorter on the top tube (550now, and 90mm stem).. So If the OP has the same inseam, and longer torso, my setup is going to be pretty close to exactly what he needs, just adjust the stem around to fit.

The listed standover for my bike is 30.6 inches.. more than my measured standover, yet I can stand over with the bar not even touching my crotch.


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## PJ352 (Dec 5, 2007)

TomH said:


> I just realized I left that out, my cycling inseam is less than half an inch more than the OP's. With a little margin of error for measuring, its valid info. Im 5'7 or 8. ~29 inseam.
> 
> If we have the same inseam, we're both going to have the same stand over. the rest is going to be reach issues. If I have so much clearance over a 50cm, he might even be able to go a couple cm up if that nets him a longer top tube and a better fit.
> 
> ...


Ok, points taken. I never thought_ reach _was an issue for the OP. Even if he goes small on the frame, running a ~130mm stem isn't a problem.

It's possible that discrepancy in your frames standover and your inseam is that you're not including pedal stack in your inseam 'height'. We take a cycling inseam measurement in bare feet, but check standover in shoes/ cleats. I mentioned that in an earlier post, thus my saying the OP _might_ be ok with a ~730mm standover. 

Just noticed your comment that you're on a 50cm with a 550mm top tube. What brand/ model are you riding??


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## TomH (Oct 6, 2008)

Giant OCR1. Its unusually long. Thats still almost 780mm of standover. 

I measured my standover barefoot, as It looks like the OP did. If both of our inseams are so close, I just dont see how I could use an even taller bike, and he'd need such a drastically smaller bike. Checked actual clearance standing over the bike in fairly flat walking shoes. My cycling shoes give me a little bit more height.


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## PJ352 (Dec 5, 2007)

TomH said:


> Giant OCR1. Its unusually long. Thats still almost 780mm of standover.
> 
> I measured my standover barefoot, as It looks like the OP did. If both of our inseams are so close, I just dont see how I could use an even taller bike, and he'd need such a drastically smaller bike. Checked actual clearance standing over the bike in fairly flat walking shoes. My cycling shoes give me a little bit more height.


I'm not sure that the OP needs a drastically smaller bike, but he does need to be aware of the standovers of any bikes of interest, _along with _reach and drop.


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## Agwan (Feb 18, 2011)

I'm honestly a Little Depressed. I REALLY wanted that Traitor Ruben!


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## PJ352 (Dec 5, 2007)

Agwan said:


> I'm honestly a Little Depressed. I REALLY wanted that Traitor Ruben!


So work with dealer and try to get more info on the bike. With that BB drop I don't see how a 53cm would work, but the 49cm might. 

Do you wear clipless now? If so, remeasure your inseam wearing them. Or, remeasure wearing whatever shoes you wear cycling. When you get the standover info, you'll then know (to some extent) if it's doable.


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## Agwan (Feb 18, 2011)

PJ352 said:


> So work with dealer and try to get more info on the bike. With that BB drop I don't see how a 53cm would work, but the 49cm might.
> 
> Do you wear clipless now? If so, remeasure your inseam wearing them. Or, remeasure wearing whatever shoes you wear cycling. When you get the standover info, you'll then know (to some extent) if it's doable.


Thanks!,though I Ride BMX platforms. always.


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## PJ352 (Dec 5, 2007)

Agwan said:


> Thanks!,though I Ride BMX platforms. always.


Well, there's no stack height with those, but your (cycling) shoes add some height.


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## Agwan (Feb 18, 2011)

the soles of my flatsoles are generally good for .5 to a full inch.

thus why I said I'm 5'10, when out of my shoes I am barely over 9.


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## PJ352 (Dec 5, 2007)

Agwan said:


> the soles of my flatsoles are generally good for .5 to a full inch.
> 
> thus why I said I'm 5'10, when out of my shoes I am barely over 9.


I suggest that you wear what you wear cycling (shorts/ bibs, cycling socks, shoes) and remeasure your inseam using the method I posted. Then (as I mentioned) you'll have a good idea of what you need when you talk to the dealer(s).

If they're out of your area, all you can do is call or write and share info, but if they're LBS's a visit would be advantageous.


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## Agwan (Feb 18, 2011)

My LBS is good (Skyline Cycles in Ogden, Utah) Its the best of the ones I've dealt with. they sell all of QBP's stuff AND Traitor. but they don't have any steel framed bikes in stock.

but they are adamant that I ride a 56. and kinda relaxed about fit. 

I wear bluejeans, boxer briefs and flat soled shoe's when i cycle. I've worn other things... but I have many thousands of miles on various bikes throughout the years. Its just what I do.

One of my major problems is, simply... I am *very* picky about what I want from a bike. be it brand, function, type of parts and even LOOKS.

In Mountain bikes it was never an issue. It blows my mind how ignorant I am about road bikes.


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## TomH (Oct 6, 2008)

Either you have the worst lbs ever whos trying to push a size on you thats unreasonable, or they're on to something and the internet calculators dont work. 

Im leaning towards the latter of the two. 

No offense, but if you're picky about the way bikes look, you wouldnt be looking at flat bar road bikes with platforms.. its kind of the epitome of fred. If thats the kinda bike that makes you happy, by all means buy and ride it! But if you're going for looks, thats definitely off base.


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## Agwan (Feb 18, 2011)

My version of Looks. not... what everyone can agree upon to be pretty.

Just whats pretty in my mind.

I tried to stand over a 56 (Raleigh RX 1.0) at that shop. on my tippy toes I could barely reach the ground with the top tube buried in my crotch.

the immediate response was "Dude you should instead ride this Kona 29'er MTB"

instead of sizing down...

I like the shop, they do have a good attitude, fair prices... but I imagine till I come in cash in hand they won't fit me. which is understandable... but I need to be fit before I will know how much cash to bring!

they are unwilling to order in any bikes that aren't already purchased. even if its a bike they carry.

And believe me. I am the Freddiest Fred that ever Fredded a Fred. I care 0% what people think of me or how I look. as long as I like the look and the feel of it. I'll do it. If this means riding a Road bike with a full face helmet, platforms and flat bars. I will.

I do!


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## TomH (Oct 6, 2008)

Even a mediocre lbs should be willing to fit you to a bike that fits. I think compact is your best bet. It sounds like your lbs doesnt have your interests in mind. You should never have to show any cash to get setup on the right size. 

Definitely get a bike YOU like, regardless of anything else.. im just saying, flat bars and platforms dont reign in the looks.


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## Agwan (Feb 18, 2011)

Thanks Tom. but they are for comfort. and they please MY EYES.

Which are really the only ones that matter! xD

but having bought proper bike shop bikes several times now... it was matter of riding them around the parking lot. no one has had a single clue of how to fit a bike in all my experience.

I just got a lot of "Yeah, um... try that one" from my old shop. then they screwed me on the Free Tune-up. so I am done with them.

Perhaps this one will try and fit me. when they think I'm a more serious customer.


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## wim (Feb 28, 2005)

Agwan said:


> Perhaps this one will try and fit me. when they think I'm a more serious customer.


That may well be the case. Reading between the lines, some bike shops, rightly or wrongly, may consider you one of those customers they'd rather not see come through the door. Just curious: how'd you get "screwed on the free tune-up"?

/w


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## Agwan (Feb 18, 2011)

Quite simply, when I bought my bike, I was given this card that said "Free tune up in the first 12 months!"

I was given the card because I was debating whether or not to buy from them or a different bike shop

When I attempted to redeem it(several times). near the end of the year I was given the whole "well, we are really backed up. it will take 3 weeks" and then "Sorry Bro, We're so busy, we'll need to have your bike a month or two." and then "Yeah you'll need to leave it with is a couple months till we can get around to it."

_"Can't I make an appointment?"
"No dude, because like... we'll get to it when we get to it."
_

this bike was my CAR at the time. so I can't go two months with no way to get to work.

they knew that.

Since then I asked them to adjust my derailleur, and was quoted no cost for it. THAT took them two weeks. and when I came in and asked where my bike was, they had adjust both derailleurs, true'd my wheels and adjusted my brakes. AND THEN CHARGED ME FOR ALL THAT. then they had the gall to be offended that I was upset they wanted me to pay 

_"IT'S A GOOD DEAL DUDE!"
"And had I been told that this was the price for that work I would have been happy, but I told you I didn't have any money... I JUST asked for you to figure out why it wont shift right... I'm stressed because you misled me, not because of the cost."_

but yeah, back to this other shop, the one I use now. I've been in 6 times to ask prices and other questions. and not spent a penny,. so I figure they think I'm a stroker. which is why I'm not Uber harsh on them for not helping me with fit right now.


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## wim (Feb 28, 2005)

Agwan said:


> Quite simply, when I bought my bike, I was given this card that said "Free tune up in the first 12 months!"


Well, yes, that should mean "no money involved." But keep in mind that this "free tuneup" thing is used by some shops to get people back into the shop. Then the shop people do their definition of a tuneup and charge extra for what they think falls outside of that definition. Time-honored scheme for making money, like "tires for life" at the car dealerships. Next time, ask what "free tune-up" means exactly and write it down or, even better, have them write it down.

As for me, first time I hear "bro" or "dude," the decision is made that my serious money goes somewhere else. But I'm old as dirt, so bear that in mind.


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## Agwan (Feb 18, 2011)

Yep, but when a LBS acts like a car dealer ship... they can take their _______s and stick them so far up their _____ that they wont ever _____ with a _______ on a tuesday.

I use Bro and Dude a lot, but as a Customer it does grate on me so.

unless they're really enthused.

"Like DUDE! The new Giants are a Killer deal for the parts you get at this price!"


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## AndrwSwitch (May 28, 2009)

OP, what do you want this bike for?

Most of the people who follow this site use road bikes for recreational riding, training, event and charity rides, and sometimes competition. So the perspective they'll be coming from is fit uber alles, followed by other concerns like style, cargo capacity, whether it'll be ridable on the street in a Utah winter, etc.

I'm starting to build up a couple of ideas of what you want to do with it. I think that you want to use it as transportation, and I think that you want a lot of the things you're used to on dirt jumpers to carry over, like the brakes, pedals and handlebars. I also think that you're going to be using this thing to get to bars and other places where you meet your friends, hence the importance of style, especially the Ruben's distinctly different style - you want people to be able to get someplace and recognize your bike. Or at least, for you to be able to see it on a rack and say, "That's my bike, not someone else's."

I don't know if I'm right or not. If you're planning to use it for longer rides, I think that you should try to get some more saddle time on the road, both on flat bars and on drop bars, and then reevaluate what you want. If you're using it mainly as transportation and as a bike to match your style, I think that once a bike has slicks and a halfway appropriate riding position, it's already close to the level of efficiency of something that's been tuned to the most optimal possible setup in every regard. As in, I think fit matters, the right shoes and pedals help, etc., but it's just not that important if I'm spending thirty minutes riding to school (incidentally, I do that every day, that bike's a little big for me, and I use running shoes and toe clips, and honestly, it doesn't make that much of a difference for a thirty minute ride with a ton of traffic signals and stop signs and a load of text books.)


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## Agwan (Feb 18, 2011)

You absolutely nailed it. this bike is to be my car for the next few years. thus why I am trying to get a better fit and a Sub 30 pound weight.

my minimum commute is 11 miles daily. with travel up to about 30 miles 3 or 4 times a week. and TONS of hills.


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## PJ352 (Dec 5, 2007)

Agwan said:


> You absolutely nailed it. this bike is to be my car for the next few years. thus why I am trying to get a better fit and a Sub 30 pound weight.
> 
> my minimum commute is 11 miles daily. with travel up to about 30 miles 3 or 4 times a week. and TONS of hills.


Given these intended uses, I agree that fit matters (but it _always _does). Beyond that, I'd be looking for a drop bar bike with somewhat relaxed geo that can accommodate racks/ fenders - and MTB shoes.


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## AndrwSwitch (May 28, 2009)

I also own a Ford Ranger, but for almost all of my transportation needs, this is my "car."


20110113144747 by Andrew183, on Flickr

It's a little big for me, but not drastically so, probably weighs over 30 lbs with the rack and fenders, and definitely over 30 when loaded, but does the job really well for my typical commute and errands. So that's around 9 miles a day, most days, with a couple extra every now and then. I have to admit that when I work someplace further away than where I go to school, I'm fairly likely to hop in my truck instead. Two of the reasons are that a half hour ride, since I'm in a hilly place too, is already starting to be the upper limit of rides I want to do in street clothes and shoes and that this bike is a little big for me.

Try to hop on a bunch of bikes and see what you think about drop bars vs. flat bars, and fit. There are a couple of drop bar bikes that I think could work fairly well for your purpose and come as completes - the Kona Sutra, the Salsa Vaya and Fargo. In a flat bar bike, a rigid XC mountain bike that will accept a rack and fenders might be the best way to go. They're the most athletically-oriented flat bar bikes out there, and that usually means that they're also going to have the longest top tubes, relative to standover, that you're going to find. Drop bars are a bit of an adjustment for someone used to flat bars, but much better on longer rides. I move around a lot off-road, but I find if I'm on the road for a while on flat bars, my shoulder gets a bit unhappy with the position. Drop bars are a bit more natural for me, and it's nice to have a couple of other places to put my hands if I want a change.


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## Camilo (Jun 23, 2007)

Last year I made a road-style commuter out of a hybrid frame. This frame has distinctively different proportions than a typical road bike frame, even a compact road bike frame.

The hybrid frame is very long for it's height. It's very similar in proportions to a MTB frame, but w/ 700c wheels. In other words, this type of frame may suit the OP's body proportions very well.

My bike uses mostly the original stuff that came on the hybrid:
700c wheels on which I put smooth 32mm tires. I believe most hybrid rear spacing is 132.5 so either road or mtb type hubs will work. I happen to have 130 mm road wheels and it works fine.

Original MTB-type 8 speed wide range cassette (which I later replaced with a 9 speed road cassette I had on hand since it was better suited for my terrain and worked with the bar end shifters I put on it.

Original FD and long cage RD (both MTB type, but will work with any shimano shifters)

Original MTB-type triple crank

Original fenders.

Original V brakes (needed to use a "travel agent" adapter though).

I just added a new stem, down turn handlebars and conventional road brake levers w/ bar end shifters. Probably about $200 worth of parts had I bought them ( I had them laying around).

The "Aero" style brake levers I'm using require a "Travel Agent" adapter for the V brakes, but those were cheap, easy and work. If I had it to do over, I'd probably buy brake levers designed for the long pull of the V brakes (they make them).

The bar end shifters are cheap, work great and mine will work w/ 8 or 9 speed cassette. Any hybrid you buy will likely have 8 or 9 speed cassette already.

Bars and stems can be as cheap or expensive as you want. If your hybrid frame has a threaded type fork, you can go w/ a quill stem or get a converter to use "threadless type" stems (that's what I did).

Conventional brake levers (even the ones designed for V brakes) are cheap too.

You could also set up all that original stuff listed above w/ 9 speed STI shifters, or 10 speed w/ a 10 speed cassette.

You can spend up to your budget and get this thing well below 30 lbs (20-25) and even spend some dough on a carbon cyclocross "canti" type fork if you want.

Anyway, OP: check into buying a new or used hybrid bike or frame with the short seat tube and looooooong top tube you're looking for and make the changes suggested if that would work for you. It's somewhat "custom" in that you're adapting an existing frame not intended for road-style set up, but it could be very affordable, easy to get together, and ready for you asap.


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## Agwan (Feb 18, 2011)

do you have any before and after pics?


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## Camilo (Jun 23, 2007)

Agwan said:


> do you have any before and after pics?


I wish I did, but no.


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## Agwan (Feb 18, 2011)

Okay, I've done a lot of searching, and soul searching.

I'm pretty well bummed.

not only can I not ride any Road or Cyclocross frames. but I can't ride a 29er XC frame either.

I have no idea where I'm gonna go with bikes. I can't get what I want. I'm thinking about just upgrading My dirt jump bike. in spite of not wanting it anymore.


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## Andrea138 (Mar 10, 2008)

Get a custom frame.


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## Agwan (Feb 18, 2011)

Andrea138 said:


> Get a custom frame.


One day I absolutely will.

but I don't have 5,000 dollars to spend on a bike right now.

one day I will own a beautiful, butted, steel, Custom 700c bicycle. and that bike will deserve a certain quality of parts.

but right now I need and want something in the 1,500 dollar range.

and I want it to cost THAT much. a 600 dollar bike is not going to work either.


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## TomH (Oct 6, 2008)

Agwan said:


> Okay, I've done a lot of searching, and soul searching.
> 
> I'm pretty well bummed.
> 
> ...


Have you actually gone to the store and ridden bikes yet? 

We have pretty much the same inseam, close in height, and I fit tons of bikes. Less internet calculators, more test rides! I bet the first shop you walk into, you'll find multiple bikes that fit.. first try.


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## Agwan (Feb 18, 2011)

TomH said:


> Have you actually gone to the store and ridden bikes yet?
> 
> We have pretty much the same inseam, close in height, and I fit tons of bikes. Less internet calculators, more test rides! I bet the first shop you walk into, you'll find multiple bikes that fit.. first try.


I have. my big want is something faster, easier rolling. meaning skinnier, taller tires.

a lot fit like crap. a lot are spec'd with parts that aren't what i want. a lot look like crap.

My dirt jump bike fits because its very long but very low.(I can't believe it took me this long to realize that) it weighs A TON and isn't pleasant on long rides.

my problem is finding a bike that looks, fits and does what I want. I've been in the business long enough to become incredibly picky. but not enough to answer my own questions.


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## Drew Eckhardt (Nov 11, 2009)

Agwan said:


> One day I absolutely will.
> 
> but I don't have 5,000 dollars to spend on a bike right now.


Custom (steel) frames start around $700. A Sora gruppo is $270 from the UK, WH-R500 wheelset $150, and generic other parts to your tastes not too much more.

Or you could buy something with better components (while UK retail prices can be lower than US wholesale, the bike companies get things cheaper), transfer everything, and sell off the frame.


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## Agwan (Feb 18, 2011)

Who sells a CUSTOM steel frame for $700? 

everything I've found online is 1,700 to 3,200 dollars!


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## Drew Eckhardt (Nov 11, 2009)

Agwan said:


> Who sells a CUSTOM steel frame for $700?
> 
> everything I've found online is 1,700 to 3,200 dollars!


Everything you've found online is being sold to people who want a pretty bike (and perhaps a brand name) they might be able to leave to their grand children where a $400 paint job isn't out of the question. As some one who just wants a frame that fits you're not their target customer.

For instance I'm partial to titanium but don't want pretty and am not going to give Moots $5000 to get it. If I know exactly what I want in terms of geometry and tube diameters XACD will ship me a custom titanium frame from China for $800, Habanero will hold my hand and have them build me something custom for $1295, and I can go see Dan Nelson in San Francisco and have him build be one for $1800. 

Pride cycles does steel frames for $649 (http://www.pridecyclesusa.com/Pricing.html; some people have had customer service issues).

In 2010 Sanner did TIG welded steel for $649 (http://www.sannercycles.com/) but Sanner's website now shows only lugged and fillet brazed frames for twice that.

Tsunami Bikes prices start at $750 (http://www.tsunamibikes.com) 

Skip the custom fork, since you want functional not pretty. Alfred E Bike has 700c steel forks for under $40.

Look harder.


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## Camilo (Jun 23, 2007)

To follow up on my "convert a hybrid frame" post....

I just took some measurements on the converted hybrid frame I've been riding. Again, it was built with the original hybrid wheels, drive train, etc. with only the handlebars, brake levers and shifters changed.....for very cheap.

I am gettting ready to get rid of the frame for a different one because I got the bike for almost nothing and got fooled (didn't check carefully enough) by this very long top tube dimension compared to seat tube on the cross frames. It's just too long for me even with a short stem.

The measurements are:

Seat tube - they probably call this a 16 inch, it's about 16 inches c-c and 18 c-t (the seat tube extends quite a bit above the top tube.)

Standover at mid point of top tube, with 32mm 700c tires is a shade below 29". OP said his inseam is 28". I really thnk that 29" standover would be perfectly fine because (1) he'll be wearign shoes and (2) the bike is always tilted when standing over. I've had bikes that were pretty close to the crotch when upright, but I never felt "cramped" when actually riding, stopping and standing over - the bike was tilted.

EFFECTIVE/HORIZONTAL top tube length is about 22.5" or 57 - 57.5 cm. (I didn't have a level to use to determine what the horizontal line was - eyeballed a horizontal line with my tape measure and it was between 22.5 and 22.75 inches.

I'll bet at 5-10, with short legs, this TT length is within normal stem adjustments of being right.

In other words, I really think this is pretty close and do-able for OP if a little effort is put into converting it. I really think that as an alternative to a custom frame.

This is really a modest cost conversion - maybe $150 for parts and $50 for labor, from a off-the-shelf hybrid bike, and the frame could be alu. or steel. And for labor, there's nothing in the conversion that requires special tools, so it's a good DIY for anyone who is handy with tools. I'll bet many of us could talk OP through it if he'd never done it. But it would be 1 hour work for a bike shop.

I sincerely think it would cost less than $200 to convert. You can find a decent complete hybrid for $4-500, certainly a very nice one for <$1K which gets you in the ball park of $600 - $1200 for the final form.


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## Agwan (Feb 18, 2011)

this does interest me.

I used to assemble bikes for a living. and fix them.

short of cutting edge technology in shifters, oil bath Air shocks and some hydraulic discs brakes. I can do it all.

I take WAY to long to true a rim. and I've never built a wheel.

but I'm pretty good at fixing things.

I figure if I can rebuild the steering rack in a Chrysler town and country. several times... I can figure most anything out.

one of the bummers is a lot of brands class and build a whole lot of different things under the umbrella "Hybrid"


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## Peanya (Jun 12, 2008)

Does the frame have to be steel? I'm thinking what might fit well would be like a 53/54, in a bike that has a greater sloping top tube. Giant is the first brand that comes to my mind when it comes to that. Specialized is a close second. You'll be buying aluminum for your budget, but you'll have a bike you can stand over, and that'll fit your reach.


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## olr1 (Apr 2, 2005)

I'm waaaaaay late to this party, but I'm the same shape as the OP, shaort legs and long body.

You buy a bike that fits lengthwise and sit a bit lower. 

It's that simple.


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## TomH (Oct 6, 2008)

olr1 said:


> You buy a bike that fits lengthwise and sit a bit lower.
> 
> It's that simple.


Agreed 100%. He needs a custom about as much as any of us need a custom. Theres tons of bikes that fit. 

If you're going to be so specific about what you want, you're going to have to become more realistic about the budget (drastically increase), or more realistic about the requirements. 

I want a carbon frame with DI2 for 1000 bucks too, but it just doesnt happen


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## Camilo (Jun 23, 2007)

Agwan said:


> this does interest me.
> 
> I used to assemble bikes for a living. and fix them.
> 
> ...


But you should be able to identify a hybrid that will work for you - Go looking at hybrids in your price range. Look at dimensions, but then look at the quality of components for comparison. 

When it comes to components - cranks, cassettes, derailleurs, wheels there are functional differences between what you'll find on a hybrid, but this stuff is are compatible and mostly interchangable w/ corresponding road parts. They usually have "MTB" type components - wider range cassette, smaller rings on the crank, long cage rear derailleur. But all that stuff is compatable with corresponding road stuff, especially if you go with bar end shifters. There's often road bikes that people change to MTB cassettes for wide range and long cage MTB derailleurs.

Just make sure that if you buy new brake levers (as opposed to using some you have on hand like I did), you get "long throw" levers if necessary for the brakes that come on the hybrid. Like I said earlier, the alternative is to use a "travel agent" adapter, but I'd rather just go with the proper throw levers.

I'm hoping/guessing you'll find the dimensions are pretty compatible for your physique and you can go from there.

A competent, smart bike shop should be able to understand this concept and help you work through it,

Remember that the rims that come with a 700c hybrid will likely be wider than skinny road wheels and will probably come with 32mm tires (which is what I prefer for my commuter anyway). But you fit 28's and maybe even 25's if you so desire. Or you can replace with "real" road wheels if you want something skinnier and lighter. All shimano/sram cassettes 8 or 9 (even 10) speed cassettes will fit on any shimano/sram free hub.


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## reven (Jul 5, 2010)

I'm 5 10 with 28 inseam. I have 3 bikes that are 56. I can't see what your problem is. I ride 4000 or 5000 miles a year.


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## Agwan (Feb 18, 2011)

What's the fit on those like?

are you racked by the top tube?


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## PJ352 (Dec 5, 2007)

reven said:


> I'm 5 10 with 28 inseam. I have 3 bikes that are 56. * I can't see what your problem is.* I ride 4000 or 5000 miles a year.


I'd be interested to know the year/ make/ models of your 3 bikes. If on the older side (and the geo will be unavailable online), providing the standover measurements would be helpful. 

BTW, you may not be seeing the OP's problem because although you're close to the same inseam, his cycling shoes add almost no height, where your pedal stack height may.


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## TomH (Oct 6, 2008)

I dont think the OP has a problem beyond being fairly particular about how the bike looks.


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## rideorglide (Dec 3, 2005)

Agwan,

I feel your pain being about 5'10 with a long torso, 29 inseam, shortish arms. I wound up building my own on a 56 horizontal top tube frame with a 90mm (short) stem. I think I used 165 cranks too. Either way I'm happy, except I have to get a riser stem now, as my neck is facakta with age and MTB/other sports injuries and whatnot.

It has just barely enough standover, but I'm used to the techniques to compensate, getting on and off, and slightly tilted at rest. 54 might do you. I have one old one that I don't ride as I just hated to be top heavy out over the wheel — plus it had vintage narrow handlebars, and a fork like a noodle. I like the sight line to be eye through fork, or a little back of it. 

It wouldn't work on an MTB, of course. Ouch crotch dismounts on a botched hill climb don't fly. But on a road bike, the usage is different.

Best advice I can give you is to go to some LBS and test ride a few. (For instance I badly wanted a specialized tricross but the S/o was too high with that model. 

Take note of the stem and where it puts you. LBS should set you up with the optimal stem. Setback seatpost can help, depending on your preferences.


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## Agwan (Feb 18, 2011)

UPDATE:

I can stand flat footed but pressed against the top tube on a 56c with a 78 standover... my inseam is actually closer to 30

I didn't rack my junk to take it, like the bike shop did... so I got a much shorter measurement.


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## PJ352 (Dec 5, 2007)

Agwan said:


> UPDATE:
> 
> I can stand flat footed but pressed against the top tube on a 56c with a 78 standover... my inseam is actually closer to 30
> 
> I didn't rack my junk to take it, like the bike shop did... so I got a much shorter measurement.


A common mistake, but some good comes from it in that you have far more options in 'off the shelf' frames/ bikes.


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## Agwan (Feb 18, 2011)

the question for me is... 80 what? cm's I assume?

I wish Traitor listed the standover on their site.


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## Agwan (Feb 18, 2011)

Sorry to bump, but between a 53 and a 56 there only seems to be about a 2 inch difference in top tube length...

seems to me if thats all there is, a 53 with a long stem will be pretty comfortable as a commuter, given that its going to be a bit more upright.


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## PJ352 (Dec 5, 2007)

Agwan said:


> Sorry to bump, but between a 53 and a 56 there only seems to be about a 2 inch difference in top tube length...
> 
> seems to me if thats all there is, a 53 with a long stem will be pretty comfortable as a commuter, given that its going to be a bit more upright.


Sorry, but I'm not following this. As frame size increases, so does head tube_ length_, allowing for a more upright riding position (all else being equal). 

That said, a 56 would normally provide a more upright riding position, not a 53. Of course, since there's no standard for measuring to determine frame sizes, if you're comparing different brands/ models, generally speaking the bike with the taller HT would provide the more upright position.


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## Opus51569 (Jul 21, 2009)

Given the issues you've had up till now, I would suggest going with the 53. If you want a more upright position after that, consider spacers and/or an elevated stem.

And I'm not just saying that because I have one...


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## Agwan (Feb 18, 2011)

Sorry to be so vague! I don't know what I want in terms of cockpit. but I am used to a more upright position.

like this thread states, I have standover issues. a 56 is said to be a better fit in terms of length. but I just realized there is all of a 2 inch difference in the 53. which I can stand over.

So coming from mountain bikes. the unintentionally upright position may end up being more a blessing than a curse.

and it seems to me a longer than average but not super long stem will compensate.

is this a valid perception?


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## PJ352 (Dec 5, 2007)

Agwan said:


> *Sorry to be so vague!* I don't know what I want in terms of cockpit. but I am used to a more upright position.
> 
> like this thread states, I have standover issues. a 56 is said to be a better fit in terms of length. but I just realized there is all of a 2 inch difference in the 53. which I can stand over.
> 
> ...


Not vague, but I think you're misusing some terms, thus my confusion. 

When someone says 'more upright', it usually relates to less saddle to bar drop, not a reference to standover. Yes, generally speaking, a 56 will have a higher standover, longer top tube and taller head tube than a 53, and that's where a fitters experience comes into play. Better fitters will consider a number of factors and recommend geometry based on them. Frame size is really just a number, while geo numbers are what dictate fit.

IIRC your cycling inseam was short for your height, but no so much so that you required custom geo. That being the case, you'd be a perfect candidate for a compact geo bike (sloping TT) because it allows you to move up one size getting the TT length you need, while still getting you adaquate standover. But yes, if you choose the smaller of two sizes you'd compensate the shorter effective top tube length by going with a longer stem.

I don't know what 53's or 56's you're looking at, but if you know your standover and (approximate) reach requirements, a look at the geo charts should give you an idea of how each would fit. 

Lastly, not everyone agrees on this, but I think a spread of 3cm's is pretty large, so given your somewhat unusual proportions I'd think it would be clear that one would fit and one wouldn't, but without seeing the charts and knowing more, that's a guess.


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## saddle tramp (Feb 22, 2006)

Just curious. Do you pull the trigger on the Ruben? I'm coveting that bike too. Call them guys up and see if they can give you a standover.


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## Agwan (Feb 18, 2011)

I want it really bad. but I can't get any idea of how I'd like it without riding one. and the only way to ride it is to buy it.

It looks like I'll be getting a Salsa Vaya. 

A fine bike. but it looks like Taco Bell puked on it. I may need to cover it in stickers.


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## saddle tramp (Feb 22, 2006)

This place has a 56 Ruben on closeout for 399. It's a 56. I have the same question, what is standover on a 56 frame?

http://www.roaringmousecycles.com/closeouts


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## bike hog (Sep 11, 2012)

*I know this is an old thread...*

But being relatively new to biking, I was googling 5"10 , 28 inch inseam bike size since that is me too. Well not exactly , the 28 inch inseam is my pant inseam, with shoes on & going from crotch to street , it's just about 31 inches.

In my limited experience thus far, throw out the book & forget about the sizing guidelines. The smaller bikes will not be comfortable. In most cases, you will be much more comfortable with a bike that has a relatively high stand over height with the top bar nestle right against the family jewels. Anything shorter , and you will just have too much arm and back with no place to put it comfortably.

As an example , currently ride a high modified Giant Cypress DX , large with a 31.8" stand over height .Stand over height clearance for us short legged folks is the least of all evils since how much time do you stand just over the bike during a ride. If you plan to race, a custom bike will be better since a custom bike will be at least two inches shorter which will translate into a faster ride - everything else being equal.


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## rideorglide (Dec 3, 2005)

Agwan said:


> UPDATE:
> 
> I can stand flat footed but pressed against the top tube on a 56c with a 78 standover... my inseam is actually closer to 30
> 
> I didn't rack my junk to take it, like the bike shop did... so I got a much shorter measurement.


I'm not sure what "rack my junk" means, but with my short 29" inseam and need for a longer top tube (56cm), it sounds familiar to say the least. 
It's a little close for comfort but just enough. Stopping on a steep upslope could be tricky, but one gets used to getting on and off at an angle, and the scooting/rolling starts and all that good stuff.


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## Old-Bikes (Sep 16, 2012)

go with a taylor made frame, it will perfectly suit your body geometry.


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## framesti (Jan 26, 2009)

try specialized roubaix 56cm?


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## rideorglide (Dec 3, 2005)

Old-Bikes said:


> go with a taylor made frame, it will perfectly suit your body geometry.


Any recommended custom framebuilders with reasonable rates?


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## PJ352 (Dec 5, 2007)

rideorglide said:


> Any recommended custom framebuilders with *reasonable rates*?


Define "reasonable rates".

Off the top of my head, Curtlo (~$1100/ frame), Gunnar (~$1200/ frame), Blaze (~$1750 frame/ fork), Quiring (~$1275/ frame), but there are others...


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## rideorglide (Dec 3, 2005)

PJ352 said:


> Define "reasonable rates".
> 
> Off the top of my head, Curtlo (~$1100/ frame), Gunnar (~$1200/ frame), Blaze (~$1750 frame/ fork), Quiring (~$1275/ frame), but there are others...


You're right I should have given an idea of what I had in mind, or not had in mind. 

Really, my questions probably should have been what are customer frames going for these days? 

Thanks for the info, I realize that I have champagne taste on a coca-cola budget 

I would have to be looking at an apprentice's work and not a cachet name. And when going custom, the fit may be the most important part. Us 29 inch inseam dudes with short arms and long torsos and dodgy cervical discs can sometimes need an interesting geometry to feel right. 

I think I know by now I want a headtube that ends up a tad higher plus a longer higher stem. I'll probably have to sell my Easton Carbon SLX fork (which I otherwise love) for a steel one as my neck is complaining about 1hr+ rides, and I think I've maxed out stem possibilities for this fork. My gut feeling is the extra leverage on the tube of a fork tube extender is a safe way to go, but I could be wrong. 

I'l be shifting all my excellent condition Campy drive train off too the new frame.


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## PJ352 (Dec 5, 2007)

rideorglide said:


> You're right I should have given an idea of what I had in mind, or not had in mind.
> 
> Really, my questions probably should have been what are customer frames going for these days?
> 
> ...


Obviously how _much_ someone with your proportions strays from the 'norm' would dictate the geo needed, but (and I'm not playing dr here) I think the cervical disc issues may _or may not_ require your bars to be higher. 

Sometimes, a more upright position shifts rider weight rearward, exacerbating (primarily) lower back problems. And lowering the bars 'some', shifts weight slightly forward, where core strength is tapped. It's (literally) a balancing act, where the fitter needs to know the limits, but IMO/E is an important aspect of fit - second only to reach.

Not sure I followed your comments re: the CF/ steel fork scenario, but if you mean a longer steerer tube would possibly offer you more advantages (presumably raising the bars), I think my previous comments cover that - my opinions, of course. If OTOH you're referring to neck discomfort, before changing fit, consider that form could be the issue in that you're 'craning' to look ahead rather than eyes up, head down.


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## rideorglide (Dec 3, 2005)

PJ352 said:


> Obviously how _much_ someone with your proportions strays from the 'norm' would dictate the geo needed, but (and I'm not playing dr here) I think the cervical disc issues may _or may not_ require your bars to be higher.
> 
> Sometimes, a more upright position shifts rider weight rearward, exacerbating (primarily) lower back problems. And lowering the bars 'some', shifts weight slightly forward, where core strength is tapped. It's (literally) a balancing act, where the fitter needs to know the limits, but IMO/E is an important aspect of fit - second only to reach.
> 
> Not sure I followed your comments re: the CF/ steel fork scenario, but if you mean a longer steerer tube would possibly offer you more advantages (presumably raising the bars), I think my previous comments cover that - my opinions, of course. If OTOH you're referring to neck discomfort, before changing fit, consider that form could be the issue in that you're 'craning' to look ahead rather than eyes up, head down.


Thanks for the really thought out response. And yes, definitely a couple of things you mentioned have been implicated in the past. 

The eye thing is definitely something to be aware of. I definitely had a problem with it a year or two ago, and addressed it by getting prescription eyewear (Liberty Sport) that gave me a larger field of vision so I could "look" move my eyes up and not be staring over the rims of my regular glasses.

Lower back can definitely affect the neck —*learned that the hard way via some of the other sports I do. The lumbar can influence the neck. So yes, tapping the core strength is important. I've been paddleboarding a bunch to work that but could do more. 

That said, when my neck was at it's worst — I had 10 months of torment — I could not look up (especially to the right) to see the stars (I was a decent constellation buff until then) without causing tingling in my thumb and first two fingers (c5/6/7) and spasm in my triceps, biceps, and forearm, burning on the back of my hand, forearm, and pain in all of the above.  I had to drive with my head down for a long while. It was misery. So it had me real cautious about craning or looking upward with my head. hence the desire to get the handlebars up a but higher about an inch back to meet me.


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## PJ352 (Dec 5, 2007)

rideorglide said:


> Thanks for the really thought out response. And yes, definitely a couple of things you mentioned have been implicated in the past.
> 
> The eye thing is definitely something to be aware of. I definitely had a problem with it a year or two ago, and addressed it by getting prescription eyewear (Liberty Sport) that gave me a larger field of vision so I could "look" move my eyes up and not be staring over the rims of my regular glasses.
> 
> ...


Given this scenario, I can understand why you'd want to try raising the bars. No harm in trying, because you could always lower them.

Just a thought (and again, I'm not playing dr here), but given your history of ailments, I'm wondering if before looking at bikes and what geo might work best, it might be advantageous to consult a Physical Therapist (ideally, with some background in cycling) to assist - or possibly work in conjunction with a certified fitter who (in turn) would consult a custom builder. The actual building of the frame might be the easy part! 

At any rate, good luck to you. I hope you land that dream bike.


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## fuzzy (Jul 19, 2011)

reven said:


> I'm 5 10 with 28 inseam. I have 3 bikes that are 56. I can't see what your problem is. I ride 4000 or 5000 miles a year.


Same here, I am same height but inseam is 29, I ride a 56, not quite your mileage but maybe 1000 less.


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## gte105u (Aug 12, 2012)

Seems like from some of the posts the OP has found a couple bikes that fit OK but he doesn't like the components on them. If that is the case, seems the solution is easy. Have the shop order the same model bike in an upgraded component group. If that is not possible (no model available or too expensive) then take the geo from the bikes that worked and order one online.

Sounds like the real problem is that the OP has found a bike he wants, but is now trying to shoe-horn getting that bike to fit him. Options are to be willing to compromise on the bike itself, or compromise on the fit. Buying the smaller bike and make a few swaps should get you reasonably close... but the OP is understandably nervous considering he has to buy without riding. IMO if you cannot test-ride before buying, and you know how to assemble/tune it, you might as well buy online and save some cash.


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## PJ352 (Dec 5, 2007)

gte105u said:


> Seems like from some of the posts the OP has found a couple bikes that fit OK but he doesn't like the components on them. If that is the case, seems the solution is easy. Have the shop order the same model bike in an upgraded component group. If that is not possible (no model available or too expensive) then take the geo from the bikes that worked and order one online.
> 
> Sounds like the real problem is that the OP has found a bike he wants, but is now trying to shoe-horn getting that bike to fit him. Options are to be willing to compromise on the bike itself, or compromise on the fit. Buying the smaller bike and make a few swaps should get you reasonably close... but the OP is understandably nervous considering he has to buy without riding. * IMO if you cannot test-ride before buying, and you know how to assemble/tune it, you might as well buy online and save some cash*.


The OP hasn't updated this thread in ~15 months, but that aside, you think someone who can't decide between a 53cm frame size and a 56cm frame size should buy online if they know how to assemble/ tune a bike?  

I've ridden perfectly assembled and tuned bikes that didn't fit well and can vouch for it not being a fun ride. Taking such a cavalier approach to sizing/ fit to 'save some cash' is ill advised, IMO/E.


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## rideorglide (Dec 3, 2005)

PJ352 said:


> Given this scenario, I can understand why you'd want to try raising the bars. No harm in trying, because you could always lower them.
> 
> Just a thought (and again, I'm not playing dr here), but given your history of ailments, I'm wondering if before looking at bikes and what geo might work best, it might be advantageous to consult a Physical Therapist (ideally, with some background in cycling) to assist - or possibly work in conjunction with a certified fitter who (in turn) would consult a custom builder. The actual building of the frame might be the easy part!
> 
> At any rate, good luck to you. I hope you land that dream bike.


Thanks, not a bad idea again, and I should apologize for hijacking the thread there for a bit, but it's an interesting one as there are a quite a few of us misfits out there.


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## SFTifoso (Aug 17, 2011)

I would think go with the smaller frame and just get a really long stem. My thought process is that as long as your handlebar drop is right where you want it, then all you would need to do is adjust the fore and aft position of the bars with a stem.


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## AndrwSwitch (May 28, 2009)

Too much weight over the front wheel can be just as annoying as not enough.


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## twinkles (Apr 23, 2007)

I haven't read all of the posts, but the Litespeed Sienas from the early 2000s have redically sloping top tubes. I'm guessing that a medium would fit you quite well. A medium has a 54 tt and a 49.5 st. Throw on a 12 or 13 cm stem and you should be good to go, although you'll have some toe overlap. Happy bike hunting.


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## twinkles (Apr 23, 2007)

Oops! I didn't realize how old this post was. Hope everybody involved in this thread has found the bike of their dreams.


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