# Slammed stem



## specialized2k10 (Jun 26, 2010)

Would you rather use a shorter stem with spacers or slam the stem with this angle?


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## Wookiebiker (Sep 5, 2005)

Give me the angled stem as the pictures show...form over function (though there should be a 2mm - 5mm spacer above the stem).

A bunch of spacers and a flipped stem looks stupid...however, there is nothing wrong with the pictures set up as it's likely proper for that rider.


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## waldo425 (Sep 22, 2008)

My stem is set up with no spacers; but then again, I have a custom bike.


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## specialized2k10 (Jun 26, 2010)

Wookie: is the 2mm spacer necessary for all slammed stems or for this specific set up? Also, I don't remember what angle it is. It is a 100mm stem tho.


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## AndrwSwitch (May 28, 2009)

Since there's no more head tube, the owner of that bike is out of options - he only gets what he can do by changing stem length and angle.

Personally, I like to have enough steer tube to play around a little with my setup. Aesthetically, I prefer fewer spacers and an up-angled stem to more spacers and a down-angled stem.

Does it count as a slam when they're up-angled?


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## Guest (Jan 9, 2012)

specialized2k10 said:


> Would you rather use a shorter stem with spacers or slam the stem with this angle?


If the question is -- have the stem flipped angled "up" with no or few spacers, or the exact same handlebar height with the stem angled down and several spacers, I think the former is better IMO.

Only problem with that is if the steerer tube is chopped as low as possible at that point, subsequently adjusting the handelbrs up or down can't be done easily anymore without swapping out stems for one at a separate angle, so it's less versatile for say a newbie whose position/fit on the bike is uncertain or evolving.


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## Bill2 (Oct 14, 2007)

I would use spacers until you are 100% certain this is a perfect fit for you (maybe after a season of riding). Otherwise you risk having to buy a new fork because you've cut the steerer too short.


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## specialized2k10 (Jun 26, 2010)

I bought this frame from a friend for a good price. But as you can see there's barely any steer tube left. The only problem is that I have at this stem and an 80mm stem. The 80mm needs a 10mm spacer to flush it with the top cap.


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## AndrwSwitch (May 28, 2009)

Use whichever spacer setup/stem combination feels better.


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## specialized2k10 (Jun 26, 2010)

I've ridden it with both stems. They are both comfortable but this angle doesn't allow me to put my contourhd camera under the stem and the 80mm flat is too short for the camera. Flipping this 100mm stem makes the reach too long for me and I can't even add any spacers to it. So I'll just have to out and buy a bar mount.


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## maximum7 (Apr 24, 2008)

I always thought a slammed stem meant that it was in the negative position, not that no spacers were used. What I also don't understand is why the positive angle of the stem, but the handlebars are "slammed" forward and the hoods are lower than the stem. 
There is no flat surface for your hands. Everything has a down-ward angle.


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## specialized2k10 (Jun 26, 2010)

Yea of course comfort is my priority. I was just getting opinion about stem aesthetics.


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## specialized2k10 (Jun 26, 2010)

The hoods were fixed. I was playing around with set up and the bar clamps wasn't tighten yet.


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## Wookiebiker (Sep 5, 2005)

specialized2k10 said:


> Wookie: is the 2mm spacer necessary for all slammed stems or for this specific set up? Also, I don't remember what angle it is. It is a 100mm stem tho.


With a carbon steerer tube you need the tube to extend past the top of the stem. The reason is that if it's cut like the old aluminum steerer tubes with a bit under the stem you can tighten it too tight and crush the steerer tube near the top.

Also...you give yourself no room for adjustment when you cut the entire top of the tube.

Basically...in this day and age of carbon steerer tubes you should always leave extra steerer tube for safety reasons.


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## AndrwSwitch (May 28, 2009)

Courtesy of SLAM THAT STEM

Note that the stem is both -17 degrees and at the bottom of its spacer stack. Given the modest saddle-bars drop, I actually believe this guy. Some of the bikes on that web site don't look like they actually would fit a human, even if they might be impressive on forums.


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## specialized2k10 (Jun 26, 2010)

I have that website bookmarked on my phone. I know "slamming" with a positive angle probably doesn't count as slammed but the minimal amount of steerer makes adjusting a bit complicated unless I bought a bunch of stems until I find that fits best. Luckily this setup has been comfortable up to 35 mi so far.


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## edvard22 (Aug 12, 2011)

Rule #45


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## specialized2k10 (Jun 26, 2010)

PhotonFreak said:


>


Does he rest his chin on top of the steerer? That just looks ugly.


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## Guest (Jan 9, 2012)

AndrwSwitch said:


> Note that the stem is both -17 degrees and at the bottom of its spacer stack. Given the modest saddle-bars drop, I actually believe this guy. Some of the bikes on that web site don't look like they actually would fit a human, even if they might be impressive on forums.


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## Guest (Jan 9, 2012)

maximum7 said:


> I always thought a slammed stem meant that it was in the negative position, not that no spacers were used. What I also don't understand is why the positive angle of the stem, but the handlebars are "slammed" forward and the hoods are lower than the stem.
> There is no flat surface for your hands. Everything has a down-ward angle.


I've always understood "slammed" stem to mean _both_ no spacers and stem flipped negative -- preferably -17 degrees.


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## MoPho (Jan 17, 2011)

Wookiebiker said:


> With a carbon steerer tube you need the tube to extend past the top of the stem. The reason is that if it's cut like the old aluminum steerer tubes with a bit under the stem you can tighten it too tight and crush the steerer tube near the top.
> 
> Also...you give yourself no room for adjustment when you cut the entire top of the tube.
> 
> Basically...in this day and age of carbon steerer tubes you should always leave extra steerer tube for safety reasons.



I guess Cadel Evans doesn't practice "safe steerer" on his Team Machine


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## lemonlime (Sep 24, 2003)

specialized2k10 said:


> Would you rather use a shorter stem with spacers or slam the stem with this angle?


It's all about rider comfort, but aesthetically I think it would look better with the stem flipped and the bars rotated up. YMMV.


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## specialized2k10 (Jun 26, 2010)

This is what it looks like with the other stem.


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## scirocco (Dec 7, 2010)

> Would you rather use a shorter stem with spacers or slam the stem with this angle?


It's already slammed. I think what you mean is "flip the stem". And you don't have the option to use any spacers, in case you hadn't noticed.

Actually I'm just jealous of anyone who has the flexibility to ride a Team Machine with no spacers, but then I'm all legs and no torso, so can't really complain.


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## Wookiebiker (Sep 5, 2005)

MoPho said:


> I guess Cadel Evans doesn't practice "safe steerer" on his Team Machine


Cadel and his mechanics can do what ever they want, as can you. I'm just passing along information as to why it's not safe to cut a steerer tube that short. 

With carbon steerer tubes you won't see mine that short, ever...however, with aluminum I will cut it that short once fitted.

I guess...Cut at your own risk! :thumbsup:


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## woodys737 (Dec 31, 2005)

^^^Cobb fit?

edit: added ^^^


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## Wookiebiker (Sep 5, 2005)

PhotonFreak said:


>


I'm guessing there are one of two things going on with that picture/set up:


Somebody put together the most absurd set up possible for the site for either laughs or to prove a point.

That bike is set up for Eddy Merckx style TT's, generally of the shorter variety...and only that.

I'm guessing the first is what they were after...but you never know :mad2:


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## AndrwSwitch (May 28, 2009)

Some headsets for carbon steerers use an expansion plug and specify no spacers on top.

I think the real best practice is to read the manuals for your particular fork and headset.


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## twiggy (Mar 23, 2004)

AndrwSwitch said:


> Some headsets for carbon steerers use an expansion plug and specify no spacers on top.
> 
> I think the real best practice is to read the manuals for your particular fork and headset.


Exactly. Cannondale, for example, insists on NO spacers above the stem...even small ones. It says to in the manual and their tech rep stressed it when the bike shop I used to work at had an info session.

As for the Stem up w/less spacers or stem down with more spacers issue:
- Fewer spacers is stiffer and more visually attractive BUT the following rule apply in my mind:
- Positive rise stems are a style no-no... the 'worst' case scenario should be a 0-degree (straight) stem
- Downward-angled stem with more spacers is always >>>> than a positive-rise stem with no spacers


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## cmg (Oct 27, 2004)

add a few spacers and flip the stem so it's horizontal.


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## woodys737 (Dec 31, 2005)

Wookiebiker said:


> I'm guessing there are one of two things going on with that picture/set up:
> 
> 
> Somebody put together the most absurd set up possible for the site for either laughs or to prove a point.
> ...


Or 3 it's a John Cobb fit which I think is more plausible. Not sure if he still does this but, some of his youtube sessions are far from what the average person would define as normal.


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## Guest (Jan 9, 2012)

Wookiebiker said:


> I'm guessing there are one of two things going on with that picture/set up:
> 
> 
> Somebody put together the most absurd set up possible for the site for either laughs or to prove a point.
> ...


I have an additional thought to add to your first theory.

I'm guessing someone probably bought that bike used from a prior owner who had used steeply angled stem flipped _up_ and placed as high as possible in the uncut steerer tube to raise the handelbars to approximately level with the saddle, kinda like this guy:










The new owner probably then inverted and "slammed" the riser stem for the photo before installing a normal stem.


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## MoPho (Jan 17, 2011)

Wookiebiker said:


> Cadel and his mechanics can do what ever they want, as can you. I'm just passing along information as to why it's not safe to cut a steerer tube that short.
> 
> With carbon steerer tubes you won't see mine that short, ever...however, with aluminum I will cut it that short once fitted.
> 
> I guess...Cut at your own risk! :thumbsup:



The point being that it doesn't appear to be _that_ unsafe considering BMC is willing to do it for racers who will work their bikes harder than the average user

As you note, the risk comes from over tightening, well simply don't over tighten :idea: 
If you're completely ignoring the torque specs and over tightening to the point of crushing the steer tube, I'd imagine you would be crushing it regardless of a spacer above the stem









YMMV


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## twiggy (Mar 23, 2004)

PhotonFreak said:


> I have an additional thought to add to your first theory.
> 
> I'm guessing someone probably bought that bike used from a prior owner who had used steeply angled stem flipped _up_ and placed as high as possible in the uncut steerer tube to raise the handelbars to approximately level with the saddle, kinda like this guy:
> 
> The new owner probably then inverted and "slammed" the riser stem for the photo before installing a normal stem.


I'm guessing it wasn't a used bike seeing as how its a new 2012 model year bike.


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## specialized2k10 (Jun 26, 2010)

CMG, if you havent noticed that stem takes up all thats left of the steer tube. so i cant add any more spacers. 

Andrw, youre right. this carbon steerer has a expansion plug


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## Oracle7775 (Sep 16, 2009)

edvard22 said:


> Rule #45


Thank Merckx. I was getting concerned that this thread had made it this far without mention of Rule 45.


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## Wookiebiker (Sep 5, 2005)

MoPho said:


> The point being that it doesn't appear to be _that_ unsafe considering BMC is willing to do it for racers who will work their bikes harder than the average user
> 
> As you note, the risk comes from over tightening, well simply don't over tighten :idea:
> If you're completely ignoring the torque specs and over tightening to the point of crushing the steer tube, I'd imagine you would be crushing it regardless of a spacer above the stem
> ...


My point being, Cadel is a pro with a "Pro Mechanic" who will adjust to specified torque specs. The average person does not have this at their disposal and how many do you think actually own a torque wrench?

It's pretty easy to over tighten a stem, especially on a carbon steerer tube. Most people can't do torque specs by feel and will generally over tighten bolts instead of under tighten them...thus causing possible damage issues.

If I'm giving advice...I'll error on the side of caution and safety for others...YMMV with this though :thumbsup:


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## MoPho (Jan 17, 2011)

Wookiebiker said:


> My point being, Cadel is a pro with a "Pro Mechanic" who will adjust to specified torque specs. The average person does not have this at their disposal and how many do you think actually own a torque wrench?
> 
> It's pretty easy to over tighten a stem, especially on a carbon steerer tube. Most people can't do torque specs by feel and will generally over tighten bolts instead of under tighten them...thus causing possible damage issues.
> 
> If I'm giving advice...I'll error on the side of caution and safety for others...YMMV with this though :thumbsup:



The average person has a bike shop build their bike who should have a torque wrench. And if you are building or working on your own CF bike without a torque wrench then you risking damaging it regardless of a spacer over the stem.

I promptly bought a torque wrench when I built my BMC, a $30 investment is worth it to not damage a nearly $3k frame. I don't have any sympathy for someone who wouldn't do the same :smile5:

I am sure there are careless people out there, but a blanket statement suggesting that is unsafe is a bit overblown IMO :wink:


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## Jim311 (Sep 18, 2009)

You can damage any steer tube if the top of it is below the top bolt of the stem. It needs to protrude several MM's above that top bolt of the stem clamp. You can't tell if Cadel Evans' stem is cut that way but I'm sure it is.


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## Wookiebiker (Sep 5, 2005)

MoPho said:


> The average person has a bike shop build their bike who should have a torque wrench. And if you are building or working on your own CF bike without a torque wrench then you risking damaging it regardless of a spacer over the stem.


Sure it's bought and built by the shop...then adjusted by the person that purchased. Do you seriously think everybody out there takes their bike back to the shop to have them adjust the stem? Seriously???



> I promptly bought a torque wrench when I built my BMC, a $30 investment is worth it to not damage a nearly $3k frame. I don't have any sympathy for someone who wouldn't do the same :smile5:


Good for you...however the average person (i.e. the MILLIONS of other bike owners out there) have not done so. In fact, it's hard to find a torque wrench for sale at many bike shops and finding one that's reliable at a low enough level for bikes is hard to find at a tool store.



> I am sure there are careless people out there, but a blanket statement suggesting that is unsafe is a bit overblown IMO :wink:


I stick by my original statements...you are vastly overestimating the average individual out there. Go talk to shop employees and you will figure that out pretty quickly! :thumbsup:


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## MoPho (Jan 17, 2011)

Wookiebiker said:


> Sure it's bought and built by the shop...then adjusted by the person that purchased. Do you seriously think everybody out there takes their bike back to the shop to have them adjust the stem? Seriously???


How many people adjust their stem after they get the bike from the shop? Usually the shop will fit it for them and then it is never touched again




> Good for you...however the average person (i.e. the MILLIONS of other bike owners out there) have not done so. In fact, it's hard to find a torque wrench for sale at many bike shops and finding one that's reliable at a low enough level for bikes is hard to find at a tool store.


You can get cheap ones on Amazon and they really don't need to be that reliable, even if it is off by 5-10% that is not drastic at such low torque specs



> I stick by my original statements...you are vastly overestimating the average individual out there. Go talk to shop employees and you will figure that out pretty quickly! :thumbsup:


Again, making a blanket statement that it is unsafe is overstating it, if done right it shouldn't be unsafe. 
By your argument the bikes of any of these "average individuals" you speak of would be unsafe in every aspect of the build, not just the stem :thumbsup:

.


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## specialized2k10 (Jun 26, 2010)

Stole my gfs stem and ended up with that set up. She's getting the deda stem for now. Since she rarely rides.


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## Wookiebiker (Sep 5, 2005)

MoPho said:


> How many people adjust their stem after they get the bike from the shop? Usually the shop will fit it for them and then it is never touched again


More than you probably want to admit or know about



> You can get cheap ones on Amazon and they really don't need to be that reliable, even if it is off by 5-10% that is not drastic at such low torque specs


You are assuming several things here:

1. People know how to use a torque wrench
2. People know the actual torque specifications for the bolt/screw they are tightening
3. People want to own a torque wrench or even know why they should own one for a bike



> Again, making a blanket statement that it is unsafe is overstating it, if done right it shouldn't be unsafe.


"If done right it shouldn't be unsafe" ... With this I agree, but you are assuming it's been done right. How many JRA stories have you read before? Chances are 99.999% of those were due to improper installation/usage of that piece of equipment.



> By your argument the bikes of any of these "average individuals" you speak of would be unsafe in every aspect of the build, not just the stem :thumbsup:


Many are...Not all, but again, more than you would care to know about.

I've seen guys go to climb out of the saddle and watched as their handlebars sunk down because the stem wasn't tight enough. I've seen saddles turn during regular riding because the seatpost wasn't tight enough...and seat posts crushed because they were too tight.

Again...take a trip to your LBS and talk to the mechanics about what they see come through their doors for fixes and maintenance...You might have a different outlook on what the average rider does (or does not do) to their bikes.

Look no further than this picture to see the stupidity of riders out there (as seen below):


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## MoPho (Jan 17, 2011)

If it is installed incorrectly and someone damages the steerer it is operator error, has nothing to do with whether or not there is a spacer on top of the stem and the same can be said of any part on the bike PERIOD!


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## Ventruck (Mar 9, 2009)

I run "slammed", -17 degree stem on 14.5cm HT. The amount of drop I run doesn't seem real if I post a photo, but seeing me ride in actuality it hardly looks abnormal.


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## jared_j (Jun 11, 2009)

The shortest dust cap my shop has in stock is 14mm. I want the option to go a little lower, and tried to order one of these bad boys but seems that he has gone out of business or something as he hasn't responded to emails to the multiple addresses he has in a couple of weeks.

Can anyone recommend other sources for ultra-low dust caps on the cheap (e.g. not buying a whole new friggin' headset)?


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## f3rg (May 11, 2008)

specialized2k10 said:


> Stole my gfs stem and ended up with that set up. She's getting the deda stem for now. Since she rarely rides.


This looks like a good set-up. If you need an add-on part to mount your camera, I've found this thing works really well. I can actually fit 2 GoPro mounts on it at the same time.


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## EMB145 Driver (Aug 17, 2006)

A friend of mine broke a collar bone in a crash. The fact that he had some steerer about his stem helped him get back on the bike, quite a bit sooner as he was able to adequately adjust his fit to ride pain free. Simply put, you have options with some steerer tube above the stem. An injury could temporarily, or permanently, change your fit.


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