# Tour De France,Contador wins his 3 maybe.



## tallcyclist (May 31, 2010)

Can Alberto Contador win another Tour De France?Is Lance strong enough to stop him?I think he can.Or who else has the stamina,strength,smarts and endurance in pro cycling to stop them both?:thumbsup:


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## ultimobici (Jul 16, 2005)

tallcyclist said:


> Can Alberto Contador win another Tour De France?_Is Lance strong enough to stop him?_I think he can.Or who else has the stamina,strength,smarts and endurance in pro cycling to stop them both?:thumbsup:


Lance?? I doubt he'll even figure in the top 10.


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## JohnHemlock (Jul 15, 2006)

ultimobici said:


> Lance?? I doubt he'll even figure in the top 10.


I've got $100 that says Lance podiums if he starts the race. Wager is cancelled if he breaks a collarbone in June or something.

Any takers?


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## twiggy (Mar 23, 2004)

Agreed.... Most likely Contador will win... I think Lance will be top 6...maybe!


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## spade2you (May 12, 2009)

Contador is probably the greatest rider as an individual, but I'm not so sure about Astana. With Radio Shack taking most of the exceptional support riders, I don't think Contador has the best support at the moment. I question Vino's motives a bit, too. 

I think he has good odds, but I don't know if I'd call Contador a 100% done deal going in. I'd agree that Lance probably will struggle just to hold on to a position near the top 10 and would probably drop out if he's certain he won't make the podium citing some sort of illness or injury.


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## TWD (Feb 9, 2004)

tallcyclist said:


> Can Alberto Contador win another Tour De France?Is *Ivan* strong enough to stop him?I think he can.Or who else has the stamina,strength,smarts and endurance in pro cycling to stop them both?:thumbsup:


Fixed it for you.


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## dcfan40 (Aug 3, 2008)

One can argue that Lance is not even the strongest member on his team. Right now both Horner and Levi are having a better season. Kloeden showed how strong he was at last years tour. I think Radioshack will go with two lead riders until it plays out (Levi and Lance). I hope Lance can pull out a top ten. I am sure Lance wishes it was April 1st and not June 1st. I am a Lance fan and will be rooting for him all the way..just not sure he has had all the training/racing he needs to make a podium finish. I do think he will TT better this year based on him saying he didn't practice all the much for last years tour.

I do think Radio Shack can pull out a team win and think there stronger than Astana. AC isn't the smartest racer out there but he is by far the strongest. Radio Shack, Saxobank, Liquigas, BMC, and others will need to really work together to pound on Astana. If those teams do work together there is a chance for AC to be unseated. But by whom? I have to think Basso may be to tired to pull out a second grand tour. I am sure Andy Schleck will be better coming into July but I am not confident he can come even close to AC in the TT... You have to think if all those teams do work together that Levi will probably benefit the most. He is a better TT than most of the other contenders (not AC of course), not the best climber but good enough to not lose that much time. Vino can be a wild card here. I don't see him being strong enough to win. I think in the end he will work for AC..or at least pretend to.


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## muscleendurance (Jan 11, 2009)

there should just be a lance forum and be done with it 

the dauphine hasnt even started yet (next sunday) and your talking about tour gc guys


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## muscleendurance (Jan 11, 2009)

JohnHemlock said:


> I've got $100 that says Lance podiums if he starts the race. Wager is cancelled if he breaks a collarbone in June or something.
> 
> Any takers?


I was just going to come back with thats a nice clause to have for a bet, but then saw you said any takers :lol:


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## waldo425 (Sep 22, 2008)

TWD said:


> Fixed it for you.


Yeah, Ivan is proving that he has it but can he really contend for the Tour after his Giro win?


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## JohnHemlock (Jul 15, 2006)

muscleendurance said:


> I was just going to come back with thats a nice clause to have for a bet, but then saw you said any takers :lol:


If he starts in Rotterdam, I say he podiums. If he crashes out of Tour de Suisse, or gets banned by UCI or ASO, or dies in a bizarre Twittering accident, then all bets are void.

I will also take smaller wagers for any Lance haters who can't afford $100.


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## muscleendurance (Jan 11, 2009)

JohnHemlock said:


> ...or dies in a bizarre Twittering accident, then all bets are void.
> .


I can see it now, a stack of his print outs from his twitter wishing the force will be strong for him in this 'difficult time' will fall off the table and onto him pinning him down on the floor, yes his powerbar which he forgot to take out of his pocket will sustain him for maybe 2 days, but when the lid is blown off his 'case' nobody will be around to his house to resue him from under the pile of....papers and he will be a decomposing mess when the neighbours dog smells 'the rotting beef...22 miles away and comes running for supper.


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## King Arthur (Nov 13, 2009)

*unforeseen circumstances*

Barring any unforeseen circumstances, I beleive it is too early to make a call who will do what during TDF. Basso has now climbed up in the favorite area. Armstrong has not really shown his best form. AC had great early season from, but not much since then. The Shelcks are questionable due to some trouble in the early season. While Levi continues to look good for form, he finished 3rd in TOC. Was he below where he was last year? Too many questions and still more than a month out. Give me the first 7 stages, then a better call can be made


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## gh1 (Jun 7, 2008)

JohnHemlock said:


> I've got $100 that says Lance podiums if he starts the race. Wager is cancelled if he breaks a collarbone in June or something.
> 
> Any takers?


If we can figure out a way to trust that you will pay me when you lose then I would cover it. I doubt very seriously that he starts, his troubles have only just begun.


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## JohnHemlock (Jul 15, 2006)

gh1 said:


> If we can figure out a way to trust that you will pay me when you lose then I would cover it. I doubt very seriously that he starts, his troubles have only just begun.


What, you don't trust a random internet stranger with an alias? What is this world coming to?

We could either put the $$$ in escrow by Pay-Paling some unafilliated third party or admin, or we can simply trust one another like we would trust Jens Voigt to call his mother on her birthday.


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## LostViking (Jul 18, 2008)

My mobile universe collapsed when Lance crashed out of the ToC!

No, but seriously...

1) Conti
2) Andy
3) Cadel

That's my story and I'm sticking with it! 
Lance might make top ten if he isn't banned or if they find little alien warp-drive motors in the bike of Sparticus!


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## sanrensho (Jan 2, 2003)

Lance might have been a factor (but not winner) with a good build-up to July, but this year has been nothing like that.

A. Schleck seems to be having knee issues, so it could be Basso vs. Contador this year, with Contador having the obvious edge.

I though top 3 was a remarkable achievement for Lance last year. This year, top five or six would be a major accomplishment considering his build-up.


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## sanrensho (Jan 2, 2003)

Just a thought. If Lance gives up his GC aspirations mid-race and decides to go for a stage win, would Contador/Astana chase him down out of spite?

Of course they would.


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## zphogan (Jan 27, 2007)

Not saying he'll win, but this thread is highly underrating Lance's chances to podium. Anyone but Contador winning the tour would qualify as a suprise to me.


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## gh1 (Jun 7, 2008)

JohnHemlock said:


> What, you don't trust a random internet stranger with an alias? What is this world coming to?
> 
> We could either put the $$$ in escrow by Pay-Paling some unafilliated third party or admin, or we can simply trust one another like we would trust Jens Voigt to call his mother on her birthday.


Not many things that you could say that would make me trust you but the Jens Voigt comment would do it. Its a good bet on your part, Lance wont start if he thinks it will embarrass him. The shack however will want him in the TDF, probably no matter what so its a tough call. So whats the bet, if he starts, he will finish top 5 or top 10? Top 10 I think is heavily weighted in your favor.


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## tbgtbg (Mar 13, 2009)

spade2you said:


> Contador is probably the greatest rider as an individual, but I'm not so sure about Astana. With Radio Shack taking most of the exceptional support riders, I don't think Contador has the best support at the moment. I question Vino's motives a bit, too.


I agree... At the Giro, Basso had his team all around him, whereas with Vino, I don't recall seeing any other Astana riders around him. It would seem that Contador may only have Vino capable of pacing him at the front of the tougher stages. How will that work?? I don't think Contador is going to have it easy.


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## Danimal (Jan 4, 2005)

It seems like Andy Schleck's knee issues are cleared up, but his early season was disrupted enough that he may have some trouble this year.

AC will win.


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## 55x11 (Apr 24, 2006)

tbgtbg said:


> I agree... At the Giro, Basso had his team all around him, whereas with Vino, I don't recall seeing any other Astana riders around him. It would seem that Contador may only have Vino capable of pacing him at the front of the tougher stages. How will that work?? I don't think Contador is going to have it easy.


In addition to Vino, Noval, Pereiro and Navarro will do just fine in the mountains. Contador will have more support than the "support" he got last year.


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## Geoffersonspin (Feb 12, 2010)

Don't forget Carlos Sastre!




Haha, just kidding! 

If only...


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## davidka (Dec 12, 2001)

55x11 said:


> In addition to Vino, Noval, Pereiro and Navarro will do just fine in the mountains. Contador will have more support than the "support" he got last year.


Conti got the same support last year that Lance got his whole career (notice that Conti sat on Lance's wheel the whole race?). Vino will be his only useful helper in the mountains. Noval is a huge roller, Pereiro is decent but won't stay on when it really gets going. Expect Conti to get attacked and possibly isolated early. He will be wishing he was sharing a team with Lance again after the 1st mountain stage.


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## Lazy Spinner (Aug 30, 2009)

Let's see what happens the first week. I expect Radio Shack and BMC to both attack Contador with a vengeance. Don't discount Cadel Evans' chances. He's showing a lot of aggression and should have a much stronger supporting cast in France.

I wouldn't expect to see Vino at TdF. I'm expecting ASO to "strongly suggest" that he is not welcome back this year. Besides, does AC really want to deal with internal drama again? Just imagine a windy day where Alberto misses the break or gets caught behind a huge pile up and Vino gets three minutes clear or earns yellow. At least Lance is pragmatic and listens to his DS. Vino would "lose" his earpiece and go rouge in a heartbeat. That was his M.O. at T-Mobile.


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## flying (Feb 17, 2004)

gh1 said:


> So whats the bet, if he starts, he will finish top 5 or top 10? Top 10 I think is heavily weighted in your favor.



He said............


> I've got $100 that says Lance podiums if he starts the race. Wager is cancelled if he breaks a collarbone in June or something.
> 
> Any takers?


So it means if Lance is not in the top 3 you win $100


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## jd3 (Oct 8, 2004)

Nobody is talking about stage 3. Conti has no real racing experience on the cobbles. Astana has shown in the Giro that they are not a very strong team past Conti and Vino. I can see a situation where Radio Shack, Quick Step, and or Saxo Bank put the hammer down on the cobbles and deal Conti a huge time loss.


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## JohnHemlock (Jul 15, 2006)

flying said:


> He said............
> 
> 
> So it means if Lance is not in the top 3 you win $100


Exactly! If he fakes stomach cramps getting out of bed on July 3rd, all bets are off. But if he STARTS the race and either abandons or finishes 4th or worse, you win! If he is standing on the Champs with flowers in his hands scowling at Contador again, I win!


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## JohnHemlock (Jul 15, 2006)

Lazy Spinner said:


> Let's see what happens the first week. I expect Radio Shack and BMC to both attack Contador with a vengeance. Don't discount Cadel Evans' chances. He's showing a lot of aggression and should have a much stronger supporting cast in France.
> 
> I wouldn't expect to see Vino at TdF. I'm expecting ASO to "strongly suggest" that he is not welcome back this year. Besides, does AC really want to deal with internal drama again? Just imagine a windy day where Alberto misses the break or gets caught behind a huge pile up and Vino gets three minutes clear or earns yellow. At least Lance is pragmatic and listens to his DS. Vino would "lose" his earpiece and go rouge in a heartbeat. That was his M.O. at T-Mobile.


Vino will be there if he has to lash himself to the underside of the Astana bus with a necklace made of the ears of his enemies. Besides, who would ride lieutenant for Alberto, one of those Kazakhs who went backwards at the Giro? Pereiro or Noval? I would rather have Jelly Belly supporting me!


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## shabbasuraj (May 14, 2005)

I heard Mechov is gonna destroy the tdf this year.


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## nathanbal (Feb 23, 2009)

cadel was sick for half the giro and still looked strong. with better support he'll give AC a run for his money.


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## moabbiker (Sep 11, 2002)

shabbasuraj said:


> I heard Mechov is gonna destroy the tdf this year.


I hope so as I like Menchov, but I see him falling off his bike and losing time again. He's not a very good technical rider. The cobbles will really kill him more than any other GC hopeful.


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## tidi (Jan 11, 2008)

LA wont race if he wont win........ last year he was a team player and underdone, yes. but this year owes & respects no one...


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## Coolhand (Jul 28, 2002)

Cadel is definitely the most interesting GC rider as far as range of possible results.


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## SlowMo (Apr 18, 2006)

*I'm your huckleberry....*



JohnHemlock said:


> I've got $100 that says Lance podiums if he starts the race. Wager is cancelled if he breaks a collarbone in June or something.
> 
> Any takers?


I REALLY could use $100! 

Seriously, I'm a huge LA fan but I just don't think he's got enough race time in at this point to hang with the top 3. Four months ago I would have said he's a contender to win; and I guess he still is considering everyone's equal as of today. 

I just don't see him hanging with some of these guys this year. Couldn't care less what AC does, but would like to see Cadel and Basso (now) come along, and who doesn't like the Schlecks?


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## philippec (Jun 16, 2002)

Lazy Spinner said:


> ....Vino would "lose" his earpiece and go rouge in a heartbeat.


ummm.... why would he go "red"?


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## LostViking (Jul 18, 2008)

Basso? Has he peaked or is he a contendah?


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## spade2you (May 12, 2009)

LostViking said:


> Basso? Has he peaked or is he a contendah?


I wouldn't completely rule it out, but it's pretty rare for the back to back wins for a reason or two, which is why many TdF hopefuls chose California over Italy.....not to start YET ANOTHER Giro vs. California debate.........


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## spade2you (May 12, 2009)

55x11 said:


> In addition to Vino, Noval, Pereiro and Navarro will do just fine in the mountains. Contador will have more support than the "support" he got last year.


He may have the mountain support, but it's hard to beat a guy like Zubeldia to keep the breakaways on a comfortable leash. I'm not sure who they have on board for this task, but he drove the pelaton last year. He was a very key rider, but got minimal press.


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## pezzo33 (Sep 20, 2009)

I think Lance will be a factor, and a chance for podium and win.

It is a team race as much as an individual race.

too bad no TTT this year

I think AC will bow out... or more specifically, get kicked out for doping


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## spade2you (May 12, 2009)

pezzo33 said:


> I think Lance will be a factor, and a chance for podium and win.
> 
> It is a team race as much as an individual race.
> 
> ...


Are Treks good bikes?


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## pezzo33 (Sep 20, 2009)

spade2you said:


> Are Treks good bikes?



I think so...

but what does that have to do with it?


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## gh1 (Jun 7, 2008)

JohnHemlock said:


> Exactly! If he fakes stomach cramps getting out of bed on July 3rd, all bets are off. But if he STARTS the race and either abandons or finishes 4th or worse, you win! If he is standing on the Champs with flowers in his hands scowling at Contador again, I win!


Ok, I wasnt paging up enough so sorry. Ok, its a bet. Anything I can do to help your confidence level that I will pay off if I lose? I am not witty enough to come up with a Jens reference.


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## rogger (Aug 19, 2005)

philippec said:


> ummm.... why would he go "red"?


You know how those types are, they turn bolshevik and start storming winter palaces in the blink of an eye. :wink5:


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## albert owen (Jul 7, 2008)

This _could_ be an interesting Tour. AC isn't quite a racing certainty because of Astana's weakness. On the other hand, the team he rides for next year (nudge, nudge, wink, wink) just might be on hand to aid him against Ye Olde Men'O'The Shack doing all they can to get revenge for last year's humiliation of their Prima Donna/Paymaster General.

Schleck - no chance whatsoever.
Wiggins - even less chance.
Mechov, Basso, Evans + an assortment of Spaniards with names beginning with S, each has a chance.


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## muscleendurance (Jan 11, 2009)

albert owen said:


> On the other hand, the team he rides for next year (nudge, nudge, wink, wink)


which team is that  what is the rumour mill saying?


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## tallcyclist (May 31, 2010)

Isolate Contador and he wont win, attack him keep the pressure on.Vino cannot be trusted.


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## The Moontrane (Nov 28, 2005)

*Conti cobbles is so last April…*



jd3 said:


> Nobody is talking about stage 3. Conti has no real racing experience on the cobbles. Astana has shown in the Giro that they are not a very strong team past Conti and Vino. I can see a situation where Radio Shack, Quick Step, and or Saxo Bank put the hammer down on the cobbles and deal Conti a huge time loss.


http://forums.roadbikereview.com/showthread.php?t=210402&highlight=Conti+cobbles


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## LostViking (Jul 18, 2008)

Last year I think Conti proved that he can win even without the support of his team and even if he makes some tactical mistakes. I suspect you have to do more than just isolate Conti - you have to break him. Who in the pack can do that?

+1 on "Vino cannot be trusted."


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## SlowMo (Apr 18, 2006)

*I have to respectfully disagree....*



LostViking said:


> Last year I think Conti proved that he can win even without the support of his team and even if he makes some tactical mistakes. I suspect you have to do more than just isolate Conti - you have to break him. Who in the pack can do that?
> 
> +1 on "Vino cannot be trusted."


Look back at last years footage and tell me Conti wasn't being supported. He was wheel sucking his team (specifically LA) alot on the climbs. I'm not saying he couldn't have gone on, fact is he didn't until AS tried to gap them. 

I seriously don't understand why everyone thinks LA was such an anti-teammate due to him getting with the lead group when the echelon split early. Other than that, when did he not play domestique? 

I don't disagree that one individual might not be able to break AC, but I will say that when there's multiple contenders taking shots that he'll feel he has to control, someone's going to get the edge on him.


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## JohnHemlock (Jul 15, 2006)

SlowMo said:


> Look back at last years footage and tell me Conti wasn't being supported. He was wheel sucking his team (specifically LA) alot on the climbs. I'm not saying he couldn't have gone on, fact is he didn't until AS tried to gap them.


I gotta say +1 on this. I took a lot of photos last year on all the climbs and I got lots of shots like this. . .










I never got the feeling Alberto was deserted. To the contrary, he seemed protected.


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## sokudo (Dec 22, 2007)

JohnHemlock said:


> I never got the feeling Alberto was deserted. To the contrary, he seemed protected.


He was isolated when he dropped Kloden and kept Schlecks.


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## Jwiffle (Mar 18, 2005)

sokudo said:


> He was isolated when he dropped Kloden and kept Schlecks.


He kinda did that one to himself, though.


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## LostViking (Jul 18, 2008)

Easy to come up with photos of Astana protecting a yellow jersey.
But for those who watched - it was easy to see that JB wanted LA in yellow instead - the dynamics on that team sucked and if Conti had allowed JB to get his way - the podium would have been different - and not to Conti's advantage.

Should Conti have waited for Kloden...and Lance? 
He was better off riding with the Schlecks!


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## SlowMo (Apr 18, 2006)

LostViking said:


> Easy to come up with photos of Astana protecting a yellow jersey.
> But for those who watched - it was easy to see that JB wanted LA in yellow instead - the dynamics on that team sucked and if Conti had allowed JB to get his way - the podium would have been different - and not to Conti's advantage.
> 
> Should Conti have waited for Kloden...and Lance?
> He was better off riding with the Schlecks!


I respectfully disagree. I've watched the tapes and simply don't see it that way. 

Should Conti have waited for Kloden??? Why did he decide to try to make a break on a climb with a very looong downhill coming up? I could understand it if the finish was at the top, but that wasn't the case.


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## gh1 (Jun 7, 2008)

albert owen said:


> This _could_ be an interesting Tour. AC isn't quite a racing certainty because of Astana's weakness. On the other hand, the team he rides for next year (nudge, nudge, wink, wink) just might be on hand to aid him against Ye Olde Men'O'The Shack doing all they can to get revenge for last year's humiliation of their Prima Donna/Paymaster General.
> 
> Schleck - no chance whatsoever.
> Wiggins - even less chance.
> Mechov, Basso, Evans + an assortment of Spaniards with names beginning with S, each has a chance.


Its a climbers tour and you say Schleck has no chance? I disagree, curious what you base that on.


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## tallcyclist (May 31, 2010)

Omg Cadel looks like he is in a world of hurt


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## nOOky (Mar 20, 2009)

sanrensho said:


> Just a thought. If Lance gives up his GC aspirations mid-race and decides to go for a stage win, would Contador/Astana chase him down out of spite?
> 
> Of course they would.


Maybe they wouldn't but George Hincapie might


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## harlond (May 30, 2005)

SlowMo said:


> Look back at last years footage and tell me Conti wasn't being supported. He was wheel sucking his team (specifically LA) alot on the climbs. I'm not saying he couldn't have gone on, fact is he didn't until AS tried to gap them.
> 
> I seriously don't understand why everyone thinks LA was such an anti-teammate due to him getting with the lead group when the echelon split early. Other than that, when did he not play domestique?
> 
> I don't disagree that one individual might not be able to break AC, but I will say that when there's multiple contenders taking shots that he'll feel he has to control, someone's going to get the edge on him.


Contador had his own DS and teammates say that his attacks were not part of the team strategy, were contrary to team strategy, _*even when those attacks actually gained time on other rivals*_. That's crazy talk. Would never have happened if it were LA instead of Contador. If LA had made those attacks, JB would have talked about what a savvy rider LA was.

Whatever else happened, that's not very supportive.


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## spade2you (May 12, 2009)

harlond said:


> Contador had his own DS and teammates say that his attacks were not part of the team strategy, were contrary to team strategy, _*even when those attacks actually gained time on other rivals*_. That's crazy talk. Would never have happened if it were LA instead of Contador. If LA had made those attacks, JB would have talked about what a savvy rider LA was.
> 
> Whatever else happened, that's not very supportive.


I'd argue that JB was not AC's DS when Lance was around. He was hailed as the next Lance, until Lance came back. 

Indeed, it seems normal to villianize AC, but sometimes you can't win without making attacks. I honestly think he didn't intend to drop Kloden, but Kloden wasn't exactly a rookie. I'm pretty sure he figured Kloden would have been able to follow and perhaps Kloden figured this as well. It would have been nice to bring him back, but that would have handed the race to the Schecks. However, you never really know how a move or attack will turn out until after the race.


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## Doctor Who (Feb 22, 2005)

davidka said:


> Conti got the same support last year that Lance got his whole career (notice that Conti sat on Lance's wheel the whole race?)


You only want to work as hard as your competition until it really counts. 

Whatever. Lance, if he doesn't get popped or hurt, will figure in the top-5. He won't win the TdF again.


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## terbennett (Apr 1, 2006)

gh1 said:


> Its a climbers tour and you say Schleck has no chance? I disagree, curious what you base that on.


+1... Also, can you tell me why Wiggins doesn't have a chance?


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## nathanbal (Feb 23, 2009)

terbennett said:


> +1... Also, can you tell me why Wiggins doesn't have a chance?


You seriously think Wiggins has a chance? You've obviously been won over by the Sky PR machine.


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## albert owen (Jul 7, 2008)

terbennett said:


> +1... Also, can you tell me why Wiggins doesn't have a chance?


Schleck: Simply isn't a hard enough racer. Yes, he is a good climber, but where is the evidence that he can put in killer attacks against the likes of AC again and again on this "climbers' tour", like Basso did in the last week of the Giro? He doesn't have the drive or confidence + he is like a lost soul when Frank isn't with him and Frank's too old to keep up these days.

Wiggins? His speciality is the TT - Here he will probably be Top 5. Who knows? He might(??) even have a win. But - In last year's Tour he simply tagged along with an aged LA in the mountains at a pace dictated by Astana to suit LA's old legs. Impressive, but in reality he was never doing any more than hanging on for grim death. + For all the hype, Sky look weak.

Just my opinion


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## gh1 (Jun 7, 2008)

albert owen said:


> Schleck: Simply isn't a hard enough racer. Yes, he is a good climber, but where is the evidence that he can put in killer attacks against the likes of AC again and again on this "climbers' tour", like Basso did in the last week of the Giro? He doesn't have the drive or confidence + he is like a lost soul when Frank isn't with him and Frank's too old to keep up these days.
> 
> Wiggins? His speciality is the TT - Here he will probably be Top 5. Who knows? He might(??) even have a win. But - In last year's Tour he simply tagged along with an aged LA in the mountains at a pace dictated by Astana to suit LA's old legs. Impressive, but in reality he was never doing any more than hanging on for grim death. + For all the hype, Sky look weak.
> 
> Just my opinion


So evans hangs on for a top 10 in the giro and suddenly he has chance where Schleck has none? I dont see it happening. I think Schleck will be on the podium again this year and Evans wont. Frank is 30 and over the hill? Most tour riders just reach their prime at that age. Just my opinion.


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## LostViking (Jul 18, 2008)

*"Might as well Win"*



spade2you said:


> I'd argue that JB was not AC's DS when Lance was around. He was hailed as the next Lance, until Lance came back.
> 
> Indeed, it seems normal to villianize AC, but sometimes you can't win without making attacks. I honestly think he didn't intend to drop Kloden, but Kloden wasn't exactly a rookie. I'm pretty sure he figured Kloden would have been able to follow and perhaps Kloden figured this as well. It would have been nice to bring him back, but that would have handed the race to the Schecks. However, you never really know how a move or attack will turn out until after the race.


@Spade and Harlond
+1 You are Cooooorrect, Sir(s)!

It is somewhat unreasonable to think that Conti, as "team leader" should wait for his bonking domesteques ("super" or otherwise) to catch up to him and thus hand valuable time to Andy Schleck. 

But perhaps he should have hung back and given up his lead so that he could bring JB's fav son up? If I'm team leader and my teammates can't keep up the pace, well "We Might As Well Win" Right? (Or does that only apply to Lance?)

Anyway, IMHO - the only person who can seriously threaten Conti right now is Andy Schleck - who, as other posters have noted, has not had an ideal lead-up to the TdF thus far either. Schleck has a better team around him, but Conti's strength, time-trialing and sickening ability to accellerate uphill will be the clincher. 

I hope Andy pulls it off, but I suspect Conti is the boss at the TdF this year and for the forseeable future. (atleast until Andy learns to timetrial!)


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## tallcyclist (May 31, 2010)

Contador will try to go on his on and thats when he will loose.


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## spade2you (May 12, 2009)

LostViking said:


> @Spade and Harlond
> +1 You are Cooooorrect, Sir(s)!
> 
> It is somewhat unreasonable to think that Conti, as "team leader" should wait for his bonking domesteques ("super" or otherwise) to catch up to him and thus hand valuable time to Andy Schleck.
> ...


I dunno, neither Frank nor Andy were looking very good so far this year. I suppose there's a little time to ride into form, but not looking great at the moment. 

I figure with the prize on the line, Vino and AC should behave, but I think we all know that there's a chance that this will be the most fun to watch!


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## LostViking (Jul 18, 2008)

*Worked last time!*



tallcyclist said:


> Contador will try to go on his on and thats when he will loose.


Assuming you are correct (I respectfully disagree) - who will he lose to?
That is the question.


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## JohnHemlock (Jul 15, 2006)

gh1 said:


> Ok, I wasnt paging up enough so sorry. Ok, its a bet. Anything I can do to help your confidence level that I will pay off if I lose? I am not witty enough to come up with a Jens reference.


If I win, just donate the $100 to charity. I would just blow it on rapha ****, anyway. That way the karmic gods will smite you down if you're a swindler. Although I gamble often with random internet types and everyone seems to make good.


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## davidka (Dec 12, 2001)

All of this armchair quarterbacking is cracking me up. Race tactics 101:

1. When your team has multiple GC threats it is always advantageous to send them up the road to apply pressure to your rivals. The only reason anyone takes issue with Lance riding in the break when the split happened is because of the rivalry that the media spun up. Lance and the others that drove that split made the tactically correct move. It put the rival teams that didn't make the split do lots of work and put Conti in a perfect situation to work from. It was the correct thing to do.

2. Conti attacking and dropping Kloden a long way from the top of the climb created the situation that Saxo had been wishing for the entire tour. Two Schlecks with an isolated Contador. Luckily, they weren't able to capitalize but that was the most vulnerable postion Contador found himself in the whole Tour. That was EXACTLY the wrong thing to do.


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## scarecrow (Oct 7, 2007)

All Astana has to do is to get Contador to the big climbs near the front and he will be fine. He has repeatedly shown the ability to stay with the best climbers and also put in some brutal attacks when needed. Barring accident or failed tests he will win. A. Schleck is the only one with a chance and that is if he has upped his game this year. Your seeing all of the best riders isolated near the end of the decisive stages in the last year or so. When it gets down to just 3 - 4 left near the end of a climb can any of you honestly say that Contador isn't the favorite? They only way he gets beat is if his main rivals work together to beat him. That rarely happens because they all want to keep their high GC spots.


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## alexb618 (Aug 24, 2006)

lance armstrong will win the tour de france without a doubt


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## LostViking (Jul 18, 2008)

@davidka - I had no problem with Lance up front in that break - right place, right time - more of a problem with his implied critique of his teammate for not making that break. So you support Lance taking advantage of an opprutunity to put time into his GC rivals, but oppose Alberto when he does the same? Okay, I get it.
You seem to have truly bought in to the JB school of thought - which is okay as he has led teams to numerous TdF victories - but one thing is strategy, another is team dynamics. JB and Lance were in charge - Conti's interest took a backseat. You are free to debate that - and I will respectfully disagree.
@alex618 - Not a chance - but keep hope alive friend!


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## SlowMo (Apr 18, 2006)

davidka said:


> All of this armchair quarterbacking is cracking me up. Race tactics 101:
> 
> 1. When your team has multiple GC threats it is always advantageous to send them up the road to apply pressure to your rivals. The only reason anyone takes issue with Lance riding in the break when the split happened is because of the rivalry that the media spun up. Lance and the others that drove that split made the tactically correct move. It put the rival teams that didn't make the split do lots of work and put Conti in a perfect situation to work from. It was the correct thing to do.
> 
> 2. Conti attacking and dropping Kloden a long way from the top of the climb created the situation that Saxo had been wishing for the entire tour. Two Schlecks with an isolated Contador. Luckily, they weren't able to capitalize but that was the most vulnerable postion Contador found himself in the whole Tour. That was EXACTLY the wrong thing to do.



#1 = Exactly.


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## gh1 (Jun 7, 2008)

JohnHemlock said:


> If I win, just donate the $100 to charity. I would just blow it on rapha ****, anyway. That way the karmic gods will smite you down if you're a swindler. Although I gamble often with random internet types and everyone seems to make good.


Classy move, please do the same if I win.


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## gh1 (Jun 7, 2008)

davidka said:


> All of this armchair quarterbacking is cracking me up. Race tactics 101:
> 
> 1. When your team has multiple GC threats it is always advantageous to send them up the road to apply pressure to your rivals. The only reason anyone takes issue with Lance riding in the break when the split happened is because of the rivalry that the media spun up. Lance and the others that drove that split made the tactically correct move. It put the rival teams that didn't make the split do lots of work and put Conti in a perfect situation to work from. It was the correct thing to do.
> 
> 2. Conti attacking and dropping Kloden a long way from the top of the climb created the situation that Saxo had been wishing for the entire tour. Two Schlecks with an isolated Contador. Luckily, they weren't able to capitalize but that was the most vulnerable postion Contador found himself in the whole Tour. That was EXACTLY the wrong thing to do.


And somehow your armchairing from the LA perspective is better? If I was under attack by my own team and knew that the teams main sponsor and director would much rather have LA at the top of the podium, I would attack when I felt I could get time. 
And I always remember LA waiting for his teammates....no wait, he never did. You either supported him or you found a new team.


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## gh1 (Jun 7, 2008)

LostViking said:


> @davidka - I had no problem with Lance up front in that break - right place, right time - more of a problem with his implied critique of his teammate for not making that break. So you support Lance taking advantage of an opprutunity to put time into his GC rivals, but oppose Alberto when he does the same? Okay, I get it.
> You seem to have truly bought in to the JB school of thought - which is okay as he has led teams to numerous TdF victories - but one thing is strategy, another is team dynamics. JB and Lance were in charge - Conti's interest took a backseat. You are free to debate that - and I will respectfully disagree.
> @alex618 - Not a chance - but keep hope alive friend!


Well said.


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## gh1 (Jun 7, 2008)

ugh, this hurts my head.


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## spade2you (May 12, 2009)

Ok, Schleck is looking much better. Still not sure who will do what.


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## albert owen (Jul 7, 2008)

I really do not understand why folks put so much faith in Schleck's ability. All his past successes, such as they are, were the result of things falling his way. He has never to my knowledge, and I stand to be corrected on this, carved out a winning chance for himself.

I agree that he is a talented climber, but where's the beef? In boxing parlance he strikes me as a powder puff.

BTW In anticipation of what's coming, I do realise that he is a zillion times better than me and all the cyclists I know ;-)


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## ukbloke (Sep 1, 2007)

spade2you said:


> Ok, Schleck is looking much better. Still not sure who will do what.


If you are referring to the Tour of Luxembourg, that would be Frank. He's a good rider and maybe a top 10 at the TdF but not realistically a GC contender. IMHO, he has too many weaknesses for a grand tour (time trial, descending, proclivity to crashing, etc.), but he should be a good team-mate for Andy.


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## spade2you (May 12, 2009)

ukbloke said:


> If you are referring to the Tour of Luxembourg, that would be Frank. He's a good rider and maybe a top 10 at the TdF but not realistically a GC contender. IMHO, he has too many weaknesses for a grand tour (time trial, descending, proclivity to crashing, etc.), but he should be a good team-mate for Andy.


Ooops. Didn't read closely...and they kinda look alike.


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## ukbloke (Sep 1, 2007)

albert owen said:


> I really do not understand why folks put so much faith in Schleck's ability.


I am a big Andy Schleck fan but tend to agree with you. The counter-example to your claim is last year's LBL where he rode off the front and time-trailed to the end. He made the winning move, though there was undoubtedly good team support up to that point (which was also a part of Cancellera's spring classics wins this year).

I do think that Riis is making a mistake in basing Andy's entire season on the TdF this year (though some of it is due to bad form earlier in the year). Sure, Andy had a break-through TdF in 2008 and a good performance last year to finish second but he never realistically threatened to win. I think Andy would be better off fighting for wins at other week-long stage races and building his palmares or taking a crack at the Giro or the Vuelta, and put off his TdF ambitions for a year or two.

He has two (rather slim) chances this year - some catastrophe happens to Contador, or superior team tactics gets him an opportunity to take significant time out of his rivals in a climbing stage. The latter was how Team CSC won the TdF for Sastre in 2008 - this was a remarkable achievement, but it would have been a different story if Contador had been riding that year. It is also hard to see Riis/Saxo playing the team card better than Bruyneel/RadioShack.


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## harlond (May 30, 2005)

gh1 said:


> And somehow your armchairing from the LA perspective is better? *If I was under attack by my own team and knew that the teams main sponsor and director would much rather have LA at the top of the podium, I would attack when I felt I could get time.*
> And I always remember LA waiting for his teammates....no wait, he never did. You either supported him or you found a new team.


If I trying to win the TdF, I would attack when I felt I could get time.

FTFY. Not disagreeing with you, just noting a fundamental truth about the Tour.


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## JohnHemlock (Jul 15, 2006)

albert owen said:


> I really do not understand why folks put so much faith in Schleck's ability. All his past successes, such as they are, were the result of things falling his way. He has never to my knowledge, and I stand to be corrected on this, carved out a winning chance for himself.
> 
> I agree that he is a talented climber, but where's the beef? In boxing parlance he strikes me as a powder puff.
> 
> BTW In anticipation of what's coming, I do realise that he is a zillion times better than me and all the cyclists I know ;-)


I like the kid. Have seen him race twice this year in person and he didn't look too hot either time.

I don't think he has the horses to ride away from Contador. Or Lance, for that matter. I think he can match them but I don't think he can knock them out, he'll need some luck for that.


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## gh1 (Jun 7, 2008)

JohnHemlock said:


> I like the kid. Have seen him race twice this year in person and he didn't look too hot either time.
> 
> I don't think he has the horses to ride away from Contador. Or Lance, for that matter. I think he can match them but I don't think he can knock them out, he'll need some luck for that.


Yep, LA has looked so much better than Schleck, not and LA has the advantage of advancing years which some of you LA fans seem to think has little affect on him. Guess what, getting old kicks the ass of your ability to recover. TDF, is all about recovering.


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## JohnHemlock (Jul 15, 2006)

gh1 said:


> Yep, LA has looked so much better than Schleck, not and LA has the advantage of advancing years which some of you LA fans seem to think has little affect on him. Guess what, getting old kicks the ass of your ability to recover. TDF, is all about recovering.


Haha, I wasn't trying to pimp Lance. Just commenting that Schleck probably can't put the top riders away, say like Contador did last year on the final climb into Verbier. I don't see Andy riding away from his competition on a critical day at TdF. In my mind, only Contador can do that.


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## stevesbike (Jun 3, 2002)

race comes down to 3 things:

1. who makes it through the first few stages and cobbles crash-free (Contador's biggest worry)
2. who gets time on stage 17, the only scary summit finish
3. who time trials well on stage 19, the only itt and a long one. 

Other than 1, pretty ideal for Contador but it's not a very scary route - alps are minimal, everything in the last week.


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## LostViking (Jul 18, 2008)

Agreed. At this point Andy can't beat Alberto (with-out secret motors in-board) - but I think he's the guy that can stay closest - and would be best able to capatilize should Alberto/Astana make a huge tactical blunder.

Really, IMHO the question is who comes in third?


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## davidka (Dec 12, 2001)

LostViking said:


> @davidka - I had no problem with Lance up front in that break - right place, right time - more of a problem with his implied critique of his teammate for not making that break. So you support Lance taking advantage of an opprutunity to put time into his GC rivals, but oppose Alberto when he does the same? Okay, I get it.
> You seem to have truly bought in to the JB school of thought - which is okay as he has led teams to numerous TdF victories - but one thing is strategy, another is team dynamics. JB and Lance were in charge - Conti's interest took a backseat. You are free to debate that - and I will respectfully disagree.
> @alex618 - Not a chance - but keep hope alive friend!


 Neither of the two moments in the race I referenced achieved what you're implying above. Lance did not take significant time from his rivals, just a handful of seconds. It did put Contador in the catbird seat while *Astana's* rivals rode desperately to control the damage. It would have been better for Bert to have been there but his not being there did not make it a negative peice of riding, the media manufactured rivalry did that.

Contador did not attack and gain time on his rivals, he isolated himself with his rivals (again, placing himself in the most dangerous situation he faced all year) and helped them gain time on his team mate, dropping him a spot or two on GC at the Tour de France.


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## LostViking (Jul 18, 2008)

*We're riding in Circles*



davidka said:


> Neither of the two moments in the race I referenced achieved what you're implying above. Lance did not take significant time from his rivals, just a handful of seconds. It did put Contador in the catbird seat while *Astana's* rivals rode desperately to control the damage. It would have been better for Bert to have been there but his not being there did not make it a negative peice of riding, the media manufactured rivalry did that.
> 
> Contador did not attack and gain time on his rivals, he isolated himself with his rivals (again, placing himself in the most dangerous situation he faced all year) and helped them gain time on his team mate, dropping him a spot or two on GC at the Tour de France.


Again, you seem fixated on time and strategy, while ignoring the dysfunctional dynamics on that team. My origional point was that he did just fine "isolated" with the Schlecks and just isolating Conti does not win the TdF for you. Conti has to be beaten "mano-a-mano" so to speak.

Who in the field can do that if Conti is at 100%?


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## tete de la tour (Oct 26, 2006)

one must understand that had Astana would have swept the podium, that would have been far more impressive than any individual win. In other countries, the team aspect is regarded as well. Here in America it seems to be mroe of an individual accomplishment. As for contador, I believe the stage in which he showed his own ambition was the first true summit finish. gaining a considerable amount of time on everyone incuding armstrong. Then he followed shortly there after on another stage with the Kloden incedent. No very well played from a team perpective. I believe he could have come out on top and still showed class towards his team as well. regardless of any behind the scenes tension. This would have more people willing to join his squad in the future. One must also consider Conti winning the time trail over a gassed Fabian. That is very questionable. ( but not for this coversation )


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## LostViking (Jul 18, 2008)

*Sweep?*



tete de la tour said:


> one must understand that had Astana would have swept the podium, that would have been far more impressive than any individual win. In other countries, the team aspect is regarded as well. Here in America it seems to be mroe of an individual accomplishment. As for contador, I believe the stage in which he showed his own ambition was the first true summit finish. gaining a considerable amount of time on everyone incuding armstrong. Then he followed shortly there after on another stage with the Kloden incedent. No very well played from a team perpective. I believe he could have come out on top and still showed class towards his team as well. regardless of any behind the scenes tension. This would have more people willing to join his squad in the future. One must also consider Conti winning the time trail over a gassed Fabian. That is very questionable. ( but not for this coversation )


Are you thinking that if Conti had slowed his roll, the podium would have been something like:
1) Armstrong
2) Contador
3) Kloden ?
And the Schleck Bros. and Saxo (as well as others) would somehow have disappeared? Highly dubious.

I doubt anyone will have any reservation about riding on Conti's next TdF winning team - in fact, I suspect that once his contract with Astana is up, teams will be beating eachother over the head to get him.

I also wonder why you seem to set a question mark next to Conti's TT victory over Sparticus. Granted, beating Cancellara on a TT is rare, but so is beating Cav in a sprint - but it still happens.


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## AdamM (Jul 9, 2008)

> one must understand that had Astana would have swept the podium, that would have been far more impressive than any individual win.


Since when has sweeping the podium ever been a concern of Armstrong? All I seem to remember from the Disco and Postal Days were highly placed riders being used up. That's why that podium sweep stuff imo, was nothing but horse sheet - I mean when did LA ever in the TDF hold back to get another guy from the team on the podium?


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## LostViking (Jul 18, 2008)

*The rules change when LA is not on top*



AdamM said:


> Since when has sweeping the podium ever been a concern of Armstrong? All I seem to remember from the Disco and Postal Days were highly placed riders being used up. That's why that podium sweep stuff imo, was nothing but horse sheet - I mean when did LA ever in the TDF hold back to get another guy from the team on the podium?


+1

I think you put your finger on it. Lance is allowed to do what it takes to win - Conti is an SOB for doing the same.

I'm not bashing Lance here (I'll leave that to others  ), I just cannot for the life of me understand why Conti is catching flak for trying to win - but Lance gets a free ride for doing exactly the same things.


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## tete de la tour (Oct 26, 2006)

in regard to Alberto, I prefer his style of racing, attacking, always to win, never to train even when stated. He always plays to win. However, Yes, I think the possiblity of a podium sweep would be important to any director. I believe you are playing to much into the hype of the fued. perhaps there was tension but I cannot specify on some of the ridicuous stories about the " fued " . With lance these day I want to believe he is more reasonable about his abilities. We will see as the tour team will be stacked with aging potential. Klodi, Levi,. Horner. Cyclist and Team owners are different. I think any owner is willing to pay for a cyclist like Alberto, however how many cyclist are willing to ride for him is diferent. We will have these questions answer by Oscar and Vino at the tour. 

As for the podium sweep. It would not have hurt him to have Kloden along. The only benefactors were Saxo Bank. Which is silly from any perspective. Trying to get more people on the pdium is a concern of the team as a sponsor and director. So yes I believe stratagies would have been pointed in that direction once it became a rea possibility. Also in the event Contador crashes out or cannot continue Kloden would have been in a favorable position. There is no gaurantee that evreyone makes it to paris. sorry my engish is not proper.


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## davidka (Dec 12, 2001)

LostViking said:


> Again, you seem fixated on time and strategy, while ignoring the dysfunctional dynamics on that team. My origional point was that he did just fine "isolated" with the Schlecks and just isolating Conti does not win the TdF for you. Conti has to be beaten "mano-a-mano" so to speak.
> 
> Who in the field can do that if Conti is at 100%?


My points are fixated on the strategy because that is the only thing that matters. Contador did fine when isolated with the Schlecks because he was strong enough to manage them but the fact remains that putting himself in that situation was exactly the wrong thing to do and was clearly motivated by something other than knowledge of calculated professional bike racing tactics.


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## gh1 (Jun 7, 2008)

davidka said:


> Neither of the two moments in the race I referenced achieved what you're implying above. Lance did not take significant time from his rivals, just a handful of seconds. It did put Contador in the catbird seat while *Astana's* rivals rode desperately to control the damage. It would have been better for Bert to have been there but his not being there did not make it a negative peice of riding, the media manufactured rivalry did that.
> 
> Contador did not attack and gain time on his rivals, he isolated himself with his rivals (again, placing himself in the most dangerous situation he faced all year) and helped them gain time on his team mate, dropping him a spot or two on GC at the Tour de France.


Since when do we give a darn about who finished 2nd or 3rd? I guess Basso should have waited for Nibali in the Giro to make sure he had a podium spot as well. Seriously if it wasnt one of Lance's teammates we wouldnt even be talking about this. Lance stated that the strongest rider would be the team captain. Contador proved he was that and after that it doesnt matter what happened with the rest of the team, they worked for him. He put time on every one of his rivals except for Schleck. An acceptable risk if you are a climber and its a climbing stage. I would have done the same thing as Contador, he is the team captain and he rode like it.


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## LostViking (Jul 18, 2008)

@davidka and tete de la tour - I think we will have to agree to disagree here - and I'm fine with that. I respect your views, but find I must disagree.

That said, I don't see anyone beating Conti this year - even without a strong supporting cast.
If he is beat, I suspect the threats are from Saxo, BMC and Liquigas, not Radio Shack.

But hey, as others have pointed out, I could be wrong! ;-)


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## gh1 (Jun 7, 2008)

JohnHemlock said:


> Haha, I wasn't trying to pimp Lance. Just commenting that Schleck probably can't put the top riders away, say like Contador did last year on the final climb into Verbier. I don't see Andy riding away from his competition on a critical day at TdF. In my mind, only Contador can do that.


I agree that he isnt the full package.


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## iliveonnitro (Feb 19, 2006)

Andy Schleck won't be competitive with Contador until he is more focused on winning...and he has another 2 years in his legs. He is still too young to win the TdF against Contador.

Robert Gesink in 3 years for the TdF.


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## zphogan (Jan 27, 2007)

I'll be curious to see Lance in Switzerland. I think he'll show us something there.

Also, TdF in 3 years- probably still Contador, but this Peter Sagan kid could be spectacular.


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## shabbasuraj (May 14, 2005)

Conty is the fave. 2 reasons. 

1: athletic ability
2: the route this year is SO TAILORED for his strengths.


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## albert owen (Jul 7, 2008)

AC looked absolutely superb in today's Dauphine prologue. He was very happy and very relaxed, in complete contrast to last year and fresh as a daisy.

A thought: No matter how treacherous Vino potentially is, there is no way he will be as bad a team mate as LA was last year + AC won't have his Director working against him as JB did last year.


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## stevesbike (Jun 3, 2002)

albert owen said:


> AC looked absolutely superb in today's Dauphine prologue. He was very happy and very relaxed, in complete contrast to last year and fresh as a daisy.
> 
> A thought: No matter how treacherous Vino potentially is, there is no way he will be as bad a team mate as LA was last year + AC won't have his Director working against him as JB did last year.


did I miss something last year - when did Armstrong attack Contador? If Vino has any opportunity to win the Tour this year he'll take it. Also, no mention of Basso but could be a factor now that he's found his climbing legs again...


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## gh1 (Jun 7, 2008)

Not sure why I keep getting sucked up in this. You guys have fun and will just state this. I see Contador and A schleck on the podium with evans, basso and a couple of other climbers fighting for the 3rd spot. I dont however believe any 38yr olds will be there.


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## LostViking (Jul 18, 2008)

*The fight for Third*



gh1 said:


> Not sure why I keep getting sucked up in this. You guys have fun and will just state this. I see Contador and A schleck on the podium with evans, basso and a couple of other climbers fighting for the 3rd spot. I dont however believe any 38yr olds will be there.


+1

Barring anything unforeseen, I agree 110%

Conti, Andy and Cadel would be my guesstamate. If Basso can keep form, Cadel should be sweating.

Liquigas is on fire these days - so the heat has been turned up!


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## gh1 (Jun 7, 2008)

LostViking said:


> +1
> 
> Barring anything unforeseen, I agree 110%
> 
> ...


The fun for me will be to see what Gesink, Nibali and the new generation of riders will do this year. Liquigas has several riders that can do damage, they will probably be the strongest team in this years race.


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## davidka (Dec 12, 2001)

If Basso keeps his form everyone should be sweating, including Contador.


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## nathanbal (Feb 23, 2009)

anyone but contador please.


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## LostViking (Jul 18, 2008)

I think Conti is a safe bet.

But as Davidka points out - Basso and Liquigas could blow things up.

If Andy and Saxo are off track for some reason - Basso and Co. are a real threat - but if Andy is recovered and feeling his oats: 1) Conti and 2) Andy w. Basso fighting it out for third. I could be wrong, but that's just how I see it.


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## twiggy (Mar 23, 2004)

I think Basso will be too tired from the Giro to be competative in the Tour..... but what do I know?


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## JohnMac (Dec 11, 2009)

Anyone here ever think it seems a little strange that such a pure climber like Contador can time trial sooooooo well? I look at him every time I see him, and think he is too small and light to post such good times in time trials.


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## BAi9302010 (Mar 7, 2002)

JohnMac said:


> Anyone here ever think it seems a little strange that such a pure climber like Contador can time trial sooooooo well? I look at him every time I see him, and think he is too small and light to post such good times in time trials.


He is small but he's also got a great tt position. Probably spent tons of time in the wind tunnel.


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## JohnMac (Dec 11, 2009)

BA, do you seriously think a man so small could gain so much and be as good as the likes of Cancellara (without his new battery power LOL) by just having a good position.

When they got suspicious of Rasmussen in the tour (you remember the moutain stage), who was he attacking and counter attacking. It always made me wonder how come they were never suspicious of Alberto at the same time?

If he raced against Pantani, I'd say he'd have beaten Marco 9 times outta 10 in the mountains and still have equalled Lance in the Time Trials years ago.

Seems to good to be true to me.


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## LostViking (Jul 18, 2008)

Alberto is a talented rider. If you suspect otherwise - perhaps you should say so in the doping forum - continuing to insinuate things will get this thread moved.

Just because you are good at one thing does not automatically mean that you have to stink at everything else.


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## stevesbike (Jun 3, 2002)

someone not mentioned so far is Menchov - quietly building form. He and Basso have strong teams - the only question mark for Contador.


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## moabbiker (Sep 11, 2002)

stevesbike said:


> someone not mentioned so far is Menchov - quietly building form. He and Basso have strong teams - the only question mark for Contador.


Menchov didn't put out any impressive time trial at the prologue of the Dauphine Librere yesterday . In fact, he pretty much stunk, quite surprising since I thought he would do better. Meanwhile, Contador smoked everyone on a course that didn't particularly even suit him, riding an untested new bike at that too. 

Another complication for Rabo is how Freire has a good shot at the green jersey, and so supporting both sides is difficult to allocate your resources out.


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## den bakker (Nov 13, 2004)

JohnMac said:


> Anyone here ever think it seems a little strange that such a pure climber like Contador can time trial sooooooo well? I look at him every time I see him, and think he is too small and light to post such good times in time trials.


ahhhh, June has arrived. 
try the search function and you will find 721356923429123 posts on the topic.


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## BikeFixer (May 19, 2009)

JohnHemlock said:


> or we can simply trust one another like we would trust Jens Voigt to call his mother on her birthday.



HA HA
That's the best quote I've seen in a long time. :thumbsup:


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## davidka (Dec 12, 2001)

JohnMac said:


> Anyone here ever think it seems a little strange that such a pure climber like Contador can time trial sooooooo well? I look at him every time I see him, and think he is too small and light to post such good times in time trials.


Contador has been an exceptional TTer since he was a junior. While there have been great TT guys who were big over the years it doesn't mean that size is an absolute necessity for a good TT. Evgeni Berzin was small and a good TTer, Levi is a great TTer, Janez Braijkovic won the U-23 worlds against Thomas Dekker, Jani was 115lbs. There have been many great, small TTer's, just as there have been great climbers that weighed more than 140lbs.


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## alexb618 (Aug 24, 2006)

my hero lance armstrong is a good climber and time trialler


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## LostViking (Jul 18, 2008)

*Why so surprized?*



davidka said:


> Contador has been an exceptional TTer since he was a junior. While there have been great TT guys who were big over the years it doesn't mean that size is an absolute necessity for a good TT. Evgeni Berzin was small and a good TTer, Levi is a great TTer, Janez Braijkovic won the U-23 worlds against Thomas Dekker, Jani was 115lbs. There have been many great, small TTer's, just as there have been great climbers that weighed more than 140lbs.


He is the Spanish National TT Champ!

I would be surprised if he didn't win some TTs.


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