# Colnago carbon weakness warning



## andysykes (Apr 1, 2011)

Colnago clearly has a problem with Carbon longevity. I'd advise anyone to think many times before buying one. Their reputation for reliability is somewhat suspect.

I have had a CT1 (titaunium/carbon) from new. Bought in Dec 2005 and told it would last a lifetime. I have only ever used for summer events (no more than 2500 spring summer miles). I took it out from winter hibernation (nicely wrapped up and greased against rust), put on its SECOND ever chain (!) and noticed the drop-out had corroded and the carbon stay had developed a crack. 

Shocking service from Colnago. They wasted lots of time with questions (all of which I answered fully) but after well over a week of emails with them they said hard luck it's too old. They also can't repair it....

Some perspective. I have an alloy/Carbon Specialized from the same period. Done more than 2 times the distance. Weighs the same. Still going strong.


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## rx-79g (Sep 14, 2010)

If it should last a lifetime, it will come with a lifetime warranty. I take it you were given something short of a lifetime warranty?

The cracked carbon can certainly be repaired. Titanium has never been Colnago's strong suit either, but if that part is okay, fix what's wrong.


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## mtbbmet (Apr 2, 2005)

I'll take the fact that there are a TON of C40's still on the road after many, many miles as a clear indication that Colnago most certainly does not have an issue with carbon longevity.
Your experience, while bad, does not say to me that Colnago have a problem. I also find it hard to believe that you have only put 2500 miles on it in 6 years. I sense there is more to this story than you are letting on. Been in the industry far too long to bite on this.


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## Dave Hickey (Jan 27, 2002)

mtbbmet said:


> . I sense there is more to this story than you are letting on. Been in the industry far too long to bite on this.


+1...How did the frame crack just sitting in hybernation over the winter?


Me thinks there is more to the story


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## Creakyknees (Sep 21, 2003)

shoulda bought a Trek. 

sorry for your loss.


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## zoikz (Sep 5, 2003)

I smell a rat as well. 
Don't buy the story.
Why the hell would you put grease on a carbon and ti frame against rust? They don't rust.


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## pcs2 (Sep 4, 2006)

mtbbmet said:


> I also find it hard to believe that you have only put 2500 miles on it in 6 years. I sense there is more to this story than you are letting on. Been in the industry far too long to bite on this.


Not saying there isn't more to the storey, but 2500 mi or less can be a possibility depending on the person.

I had a few nice bikes built up, then took a break from riding for almost 5 years (some rides here and there) due to school and kids. I still have the original chain on the Ridley I built up in 2006 (less than 1/16" stretch). I put more miles on that bike this winter on the trainer than actual road miles in the past 5 years 

But yes, some elements to the storey sound strange.......wrapped and greased the frame? strange......


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## cxwrench (Nov 9, 2004)

first post...*clearly* it looks like we have a new troll...


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## Kontact (Apr 1, 2011)

I don't believe the OP said the frame itself was greased - he was talking about the entire bike having been prepped for storage.

I would also doubt that it cracked from just sitting, but that just means it was missed when last ridden.

Like all internet tails, a few pictures or some concrete contact details from Colnago or a local shop flesh out the story. A poster who registered just for this purpose might be suspect, or he might be putting out the word about something that is completely true, but not necessarily an injustice - sounds like the warranty was up.


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## andysykes (Apr 1, 2011)

I registered since I thought it was important for you to learn about Colnago frames

What other motive do I have!

The LBS thinks Colnago are crazy since they have examined the fame and can see it and the rest of the bike are in mint condition


I have 8 other bikes....the Colnago was kept for Mountain sportives since it handled v nicely.

No winter use at all. 2500 is top end estimate. If you have a Colnago it is a problem


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## andysykes (Apr 1, 2011)

Sorry guys; I am amazed. Troll?

Colnago have a problem here and it is well worth you all knowing that.

And yes, I should have bought something less fancy but more reliable and with customer servce that is interested. I have learnt

I do have the photo that the bike shop sent in


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## robdamanii (Feb 13, 2006)

andysykes said:


> Sorry guys; I am amazed. Troll?
> 
> Colnago have a problem here and it is well worth you all knowing that.
> 
> ...


No pics, no evidence other than "I just found it was cracked" and no posting history, and we're supposed to believe you're NOT a troll?


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## andysykes (Apr 1, 2011)

Interesting

What seems to have happened is that the drop out corrodes. That is inseted into the carbon stay. That then causes the stay to develop a crack. LBS examined it and said it should not be ridden. They also suggested Colango should take a look. They were not interested


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## andysykes (Apr 1, 2011)

And hopefully this is the photo which also shows the alloy corrosion.

Rest of the frame is immaculate


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## Ventruck (Mar 9, 2009)

It all just lines up funny: the reasons rob posted, April fools, "syke" in your username (but no disrespect intended).


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## mtbbmet (Apr 2, 2005)

andysykes said:


> Interesting
> 
> What seems to have happened is that the drop out corrodes. That is inseted into the carbon stay. That then causes the stay to develop a crack. LBS examined it and said it should not be ridden. They also suggested Colango should take a look. They were not interested


Again, there are 1000's of C40's much older than your bike that are still going strong with no issues.
Also, carbon does not corrode unless you apply some sort of chemical to it.
And Colnago do not have a lifetime warranty, mostly because they do not need it. So I'm not surprised that they are not interested in looking at it. Send it to Calfee to get it fixed, if it does exist anyway.


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## Dave Hickey (Jan 27, 2002)

andysykes said:


> And hopefully this is the photo which also shows the alloy corrosion.
> 
> Rest of the frame is immaculate



How long is the warranty on the frame?

BTW, 

I've seen many carbon frames/alloy junctions do that.. It's called galvanic corrosion.

The solution is to use a barrier between the carbon and alloy. LOOK used a fiberglass wrap....others have used a special epoxy... 

It was a big problem in the early 90's.. 

If the frame is out of warranty, it's not a difficult fix...Calfee will fix it...


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## andysykes (Apr 1, 2011)

Very funny.

Riding a defective carbon frmae is not and there will be others who need to heed this message. LBS said I was lucky I brought it in and spotted it.

I have ridden down the the Tourmalet on this frame only last summer.

Colango warranty (even on Ti frames) is 2 years. They keep to that v strictly.


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## andysykes (Apr 1, 2011)

Many thanks on the fix, though Dave.

I will look into it

I do wonder if early carbon frames have other weaknesses and if it's just not too risky?

I guess C40s are equally at risk?


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## bwhite_4 (Aug 29, 2006)

I have about 24K miles on my Colnago E1. No issues nor do I ever worry about it or ever will.


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## andysykes (Apr 1, 2011)

On Colnago , I suspect they don't have a lifetime warranty because they know it would cost them dear.....

You only give one if you know there is little risk it will cost you. If your frames are weak, you know it will bankrupt you. That was the myth of Colango I bought into.


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## mtbbmet (Apr 2, 2005)

So it's alloy corrosion, not a problem with the carbon.


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## andysykes (Apr 1, 2011)

That's what I thought too


Lucky though that LBS spotted it


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## Len J (Jan 28, 2004)

I've seen people posting about CTI's for several years and this is the first I've heard of this. 

It's certainly worth checking, but I don't think I'd be running out and getting rid of my bike if I had a colnago based on one incident.

Glad you found it before it failed.

I'm also not surprised that they didn't fix it for you. it's a 6 year old frame with a 2 year warranty. They have no idea how that frame hads been used, abused, stored etc. In addition, their warranty specificially covers defects in material or workmanship....it's debatable that you could classify this as a defect in material or workmanship........it lasted 3 times the warranty period.

I understand your frustration, but I'm not feeling it, frankly.

Now if you bought it knowing there was a lifetime warranty, I could see your problem 

Len


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## Kontact (Apr 1, 2011)

mtbbmet said:


> So it's alloy corrosion, not a problem with the carbon.


Galvonic corrosion happens between the conductive carbon and the aluminum, killing the bond between them.

Looking at the crack, I wonder if the corrosion was so severe that the dropout insert expanded, cracking the carbon tube. That would explain both problems, and would make this a potential problem for every Colnago built this way, which is a shame.


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## andysykes (Apr 1, 2011)

On the defect point, if it is galvanic corrosion, then on a 2004/5 machine they should surely have learnt that this was a problem (I have learnt of the 1990s) and not repeated the technique a decade on....Surely that is just bad design?

Colnago were not interested in examining it, so I guess they already know they have a problem. But be warned to others (and of course to ignore my case as a one off, if they so wish...)


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## andysykes (Apr 1, 2011)

Thanks

That is what I wonder

But what's striking is how few miles this frame did (ven if some contributors do not believe me) and that it hasn't been out in winter conditions.

My Specialized from the same vinatage (carbon stays, alloy tubes and drop-outs), has doen the big miles (15k++) and is fine!


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## mpcbike (May 12, 2009)

That type of corrosion on older Colnago carbon is nothing uncommon. Most likely it had/has to do with the type of "anti-corrosion" treatment the aluminum had from the manufacturer(no way for you or even Colnago to really know). I've seen a number of CT's and a C-40 with the EXACT same issue. I've also seen far more origional Trek OCLV's with corrosion at least as bad(scary on the old 2 thousand series frames!). As far as the "no winters", that has little bearing, in fact the sweat generated from summer riding would be more likely culprit(still a stretch). Sucks, but there's nothing you can do, old frame and old technology combined with potentially less than stellar metal prep by whoever made the stay ends. One could argue it's not even Colnago's fault as they didn't make the pieces that corroded...


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## Kontact (Apr 1, 2011)

mpcbike said:


> That type of corrosion on older Colnago carbon is nothing uncommon. Most likely it had/has to do with the type of "anti-corrosion" treatment the aluminum had from the manufacturer(no way for you or even Colnago to really know). I've seen a number of CT's and a C-40 with the EXACT same issue. I've also seen far more origional Trek OCLV's with corrosion at least as bad(scary on the old 2 thousand series frames!). As far as the "no winters", that has little bearing, in fact the sweat generated from summer riding would be more likely culprit(still a stretch). Sucks, but there's nothing you can do, old frame and old technology combined with potentially less than stellar metal prep by whoever made the stay ends. One could argue it's not even Colnago's fault as they didn't make the pieces that corroded...


Galvanic corrosion that leads to bonding failures was well understood more than a decade ago. The almost universal solution is fiberglass. If Colnago couldn't be bothered by 2005, I have to wonder if that's because they didn't "know", or they just didn't have to worry with a 2 year warranty period.


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## medimond (Apr 26, 2009)

This type of corrosion is not a function of mileage. I've gotten to the point in my life that I wear my best stuff all of the time, otherwise it just sits and is dated well before it wears out.


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## andysykes (Apr 1, 2011)

Thanks. very helpful

I guess the difference with the Trek or Specialized is that they give a lifetime warranty and would be worried about this.

I bought into the Colnago don't need to give a lifetime warranty line (because their frames are so well engineered) that one of the others guys mentioned here...

Live and learn...


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## il sogno (Jul 15, 2002)

cxwrench said:


> first post...*clearly* it looks like we have a new troll...


Let's not hold low post counts against people. Everybody needs a first post.


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## Cinelli 82220 (Dec 2, 2010)

They aren't interested in fixing it because they can't fix it, they don't have the carbon know-how, beyond gluing together lug and tube kits. Nor do they have any ability to work with Ti. 

Contracting out leads to exactly this situation. The original maker may have assured Colnago the frames were reliable, Colnago trusted them, and this happens.


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## Pirx (Aug 9, 2009)

andysykes said:


> Colnago have a problem here and it is well worth you all knowing that.


Bullshit. The fact that you have a problem with that one Colnago frame means absolutely nothing regarding whether or not Colnago, in general, has problems with carbon frames in general. Case closed.


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## Kontact (Apr 1, 2011)

Pirx said:


> Bullshit. The fact that you have a problem with that one Colnago frame means absolutely nothing regarding whether or not Colnago, in general, has problems with carbon frames in general. Case closed.


That's a strange way of looking at it. The problem with this frame points at a design problem, not a one-off defect. 

MPCbike's post suggests that it isn't one-off either. 


What is your interest in posting your denouncement?


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## Cinelli 82220 (Dec 2, 2010)

Pirx said:


> Bullshit. The fact that you have a problem with that one Colnago frame means absolutely nothing regarding whether or not Colnago, in general, has problems with carbon frames in general. Case closed.


Wow. Obviously hit a nerve.
What do you think of the failure to insulate against galvanic corrosion Mr Pirx? Why didn't Colnago foresee this problem?


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## mriddle (Nov 16, 2005)

*wow, so many experts....*

This may in fact be the most BS thread in all the years I've been on here.
Colnago doesn't know carbon? Should have bought a Trek? Idiot. 

The CT's are in fact some of the most sought after bikes over the past 10 years. That is, by people who know wtf they are actually doing. 

You greased the rust? That's probably where you lost support from Colnago.

This guy is an idiot and some of you are closely following. Check those lifetime warranties, just words.

Go away.


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## Gnarly 928 (Nov 19, 2005)

Creakyknees said:


> shoulda bought a Trek.
> 
> sorry for your loss.



Nah, Trek had problems around that time period also.

The problem was that the engineers didn't realize that carbon and aluminum and or some other metals will have a galvanic reaction and oxidize if they were glued wrong. They were doing it wrong at first.

Trex of the era (5900 was what I had problems with) developed bubbles through the paint and carbon as the fork dropouts corroded inside the carbon/outside the dropout 'insert' They had some case where the fork legs split, where the drop outs dropped out and many with an ugly bunch of blisters and chalking looking alloy. Chapped Lawyer Lips, I guess you could say..

I've never heard of any issues with Colnago's carbon.


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## PlatyPius (Feb 1, 2009)

andysykes said:


> Colnago clearly has a problem with Carbon longevity. I'd advise anyone to think many times before buying one. Their reputation for reliability is somewhat suspect.
> 
> I have had a CT1 (titaunium/carbon) from new. Bought in Dec 2005 and told it would last a lifetime. I have only ever used for summer events (no more than 2500 spring summer miles). I took it out from winter hibernation (nicely wrapped up and greased against rust), put on its SECOND ever chain (!) and noticed the drop-out had corroded and the carbon stay had developed a crack.
> 
> ...


Well, let's see.... Ernesto learned about carbon from Ferrari. Ferrari obviously knows nothing about carbon.

The problem wasn't with the carbon, it was with the metal stuck IN the carbon.

Your warranty was for 2 years; not "2 Years or 20,000 miles - whichever comes LAST".

It's one thing to be mad that YOUR bike had an issue. It's another to join a forum and post wildly exaggerated claims that Colnago carbon is all going to fail and that they're incompetent.


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## Kontact (Apr 1, 2011)

I just did some searching. Highly corroded dropouts on Colnagos seem to pop up frequently, and Colnago likes to claim it is due to sweat.


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## ciclisto (Nov 8, 2005)

I have a C 50 with 20,000 miles and live on the ocean , not near it right at the beach. it is in my garage and i ride it all the time it looks brand new,, no problems and the carbon built is Perfect you will not find a better carbon except maybe Time.. this is BS you either got a bad one and the carbon suffered from the way you treated the metal aspect. Colnago invented carbon on bikes. they do not need warranty past 2 years as they are built well. your fault some way


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## guyc (Mar 16, 2011)

Out of interest how sweaty do peoples' dropouts get on a typical ride? 

Not very, would be my guess.


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## andysykes (Apr 1, 2011)

I was wondering that.....I guess exposure to air is the problem..... Message I take is Colnago isn't very good with Carbon and alloy mixes and made a bit of an error that it's not intereted in learning from.
Worth everyone checking their frames or having LBS examine it. The issue you see on my frame was not immediately apparent.


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## Pirx (Aug 9, 2009)

Kontact said:


> That's a strange way of looking at it. The problem with this frame points at a design problem, not a one-off defect.


Bullshit again. It does nothing of the sort. All it does is point to a problem with _this particular frame, of this particular customer_. Unless you can demonstrate that there is a history of more failures of that kind, with _all _of Colnago's carbon frames, the statements posted by the OP are completely without any basis in fact. I call such a thing _bullshit_.

What is your motivation to see this particular manufacturer disparaged in this way?



Cinelli 82220 said:


> Wow. Obviously hit a nerve.
> What do you think of the failure to insulate against galvanic corrosion Mr Pirx? Why didn't Colnago foresee this problem?


How do you know that there is such a failure on Colnago's part, rather than an isolated problem with this customer's specific frame? Manufacturing glitches happen. See above. 

Interesting thread, I agree, btw.


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## dot (Mar 4, 2004)

Aluminium tends to corrode like this, getting porous and taking more space. Clearly no one thought about that when designing the frame. The owner must have kept the frame in very aggressive environment, moist and close to something salty or aggressive to Al.

Any place where metal and carbon or between two different metals (alu softtails with steel chainstays) are joined together are points of most probable failure. I don't mean it happens every time but it's a troubled area. I'd rather buy an alloy frame than a carbon/alloy one.

I once had an old car with aluminium bumpers. They rotted throughout in 5 years in local winters with too much salt and other chemical stuff put on the roads. Bike parts ridden in winter over local roads tend to rust, rot and not work properly if they aren't taken care of after every ride.


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## andysykes (Apr 1, 2011)

Thanks
I once lived in Bermuda (12 years ago) and saw alloy frames corrode there just from wind exposure.

The Colnago was kept in the temperate UK; a long way from the sea and never taken out until April (and put away again in September. I guess the corrsosion just happens over time or if the parts aren't properly prepared


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## Coolhand (Jul 28, 2002)

*Moderators Note*



mriddle said:


> This may in fact be the most BS thread in all the years I've been on here.
> Colnago doesn't know carbon? Should have bought a Trek? Idiot.
> 
> The CT's are in fact some of the most sought after bikes over the past 10 years. That is, by people who know wtf they are actually doing.
> ...


And this is your warning for personal attacks- seeing you have been here for many years you should know better. Please stick to the thread topic.


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## andysykes (Apr 1, 2011)

Very raw nerves. Intriguing.

Incidentally, I was been racing for the last 35 years and my first CIOCC is still going strong as is every other bike I have owned.

Maybe I was unlucky and all other Colnagos are fine (? if this is galvanic corrosion). I have offered this one back to Colnago so they can learn from it on what the cause was. They are not even interested in that. Since there are lots of CTs and c40s out there you'd might have thought there'd be some interest.


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## GirchyGirchy (Feb 12, 2004)

I may be wrong, but I'm saying that's not galvanic corrosion. Corrosion, sure, but not galvanic, which occurs between two metals. Unless some sort of steel piece is inside that joint bonding the carbon to the aluminum, then it's a different type of corrosion.


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## Gnarly 928 (Nov 19, 2005)

andysykes said:


> Thanks
> I once lived in Bermuda (12 years ago) and saw alloy frames corrode there just from wind exposure.
> 
> The Colnago was kept in the temperate UK; a long way from the sea and never taken out until April (and put away again in September. I guess the corrsosion just happens over time or if the parts aren't properly prepared


 Maybe the fellow who assembled this particular bike had too many espressos before coming to the factory that morning and trembled a bit putting the stick-um on the dropout.

Galvanic corrosion is greatly accelerated, too, by the presence of any electrical current. Perhaps your bike was spending some time in a very electrical spot....maybe leaned against a wall with a high load wire running behind the paneling or hanging on an alloy wall rack that had a mounting screw touching a wire in the wall, a frayed electrical cord could have been touching it somehow, somewhere, sometime. It does not take long for the metal to degrade, if the conditions are just right to enhance galvanic corrosion. 

Working in a yacht yard, we dealt regularly with galvanic corrosion. The marine industry uses Zinc sacrificial anodes attached to the boat to "soak-up" any stray electrons...the Zincs corrode, by design, and are a regular service item..

We once hauled a fancy Swan sailboat and did the bottom, replacing the zincs, etc. Within 2 wks, that boat sunk at it's dock, with all the bronze thru the hull fittings turned into swiss cheeze from galvanic corrosion. We traced the problem to his marina berth, where the slip next to him, the boat was fitted with a cabin heater/dryer, powered by shore power. Somehow the electric supply cord for that got into the water, across the dock and next to the Swan. The GFI/circuit breakers did not function correctly. So for three weeks, there was a lot of electrical current running around in the seawater and it first stripped away the Zincs and then went after all the other metal nearby. Normally, the zincs last about a year, but with that rogue current nearby, they were gone almost immediately, leaving the other metals nearest to take the enhanced galvanic charge and corrode away in an unusual fashion.

Saying "Colnago's carbon work is no good" because you have an older one one with a problem...I think that might be reaching for it a bit. Saying Colnago's warranty response sucks, based on your experience with that one frame isn't very fair, either. 

There are many 'layers' of people between the Colnago factory and the ultimate owners of the bikes. Anywhere along that 'train' of distribution, someone can be 'flaky' and not give a crap...causing the Customer Service experience to be bad. Could be the guy who sold you your particular bike with the "lifetime warranty", the shop owners' instructions to his employees, the national distributor, the sales rep. any place along the line. 

Lastly, maybe you should have posted this on the Colnago Forum, where people who're very interested and knowledgeable about all things Colnago go to learn and share.


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## Kontact (Apr 1, 2011)

Pirx said:


> Bullshit again. It does nothing of the sort. All it does is point to a problem with _this particular frame, of this particular customer_. Unless you can demonstrate that there is a history of more failures of that kind, with _all _of Colnago's carbon frames, the statements posted by the OP are completely without any basis in fact. I call such a thing _bullshit_.
> 
> What is your motivation to see this particular manufacturer disparaged in this way?


I have no motivation in disparaging any manufacturer. I do have an interest in the science of bicycle design. I am also fascinated by a 2005 bicycle in this price range having problems one associates with the 1980s.

Galvanic corrosion is an accelerated process - it has only a little to do with the environment, and a lot to do with the differing materials and electrical potentials. Using your rear brake can create can generate an electrical potential, for instance.

My question for you: If Colnago (or whoever) have a decent, repeatable system for electrically insulating the carbon from the aluminum, how does this step go wrong? If a layer of fiberglass (for instance) is actually missing from the inside of the stay, how did this happen, and how did the dropouts fit correctly in the stay?

In the olde days, lots of different methods were tried for this combination, including anodizing the dropout plug and using larger clearances so the epoxy acted as the insulator. None worked partcularly well, and produced haphazard results. From the other examples of corroded dropouts on similarly built Colnagos, it seems like a little bit of a trend. I take it you disagree.

The other factor in all this is that this level of corrosion is in no way typical of aluminum. For instance, I stripped my old Cannondale of all paint 21 years ago and rode it in lots of conditions, including road salt. It still doesn't have any corrosion even remotely like what the OP's ANODIZED dropouts show after 6 years. That's the power of galvanic corrosion (not sweat). And that piques my interest. 

But I don't have a Colnago, so I have nothing to feel defensive about.


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## andysykes (Apr 1, 2011)

And I have no motivation either other than alerting you to a risk. I used to think Colnago were the best and still admire the paint work and geometry.

But I am also concerned that Colnago are not interested in the cause. It's fascinating that they aren't. And I stress agin, this frame may date from 2005 but the use has been minimal.

Someone else has just pointed out to me that the Sale of Goods Act gives me 6 years in which to pursue legal redress in the UK against the retailer and Colnago, so it's not as if they will be able to ignore it. 

And please be a little more polite in your replies. Good job most people's deductive reasoning does not work like this!


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## terry b (Jan 29, 2004)

The blade came loose from the handle of my shovel. I noticed it when I took it out this spring. Please check your shovels, the basic design is fundamentally unsound.


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## Doolab (Feb 13, 2008)

@AndySykes

Thanks for sharing your experience with us.

I hope you and others with similar problems to yours don't get discouraged from sharing their experiences with us due to disparaging remarks by some of these industry hacks / know-it-alls.


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## Kontact (Apr 1, 2011)

terry b said:


> The blade came loose from the handle of my shovel. I noticed it when I took it out this spring. Please check your shovels, the basic design is fundamentally unsound.


Here's how you replace a shovel handle:
http://www.popularmechanics.com/home/reviews/hand-tools/4217173

What has an $8 shovel handle got to do with a permanently bonded dropout in an expensive bicycle frame?


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## andysykes (Apr 1, 2011)

Thanks
I hope people will read and make a reasoned judgement.
Some scary views out there. 
The frame is going to a manufacturer who wants to learn what Colnago isn't interested in. After that, someone has pointed out the legal redress I still have. So I have gained from this. Hope some else does too.
Don't say you weren't warned.


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## andysykes (Apr 1, 2011)

A very flawed form of logic. But amusing, no doubt.


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## terry b (Jan 29, 2004)

Kontact said:


> What has an $8 shovel handle got to do with a permanently bonded dropout in an expensive bicycle frame?


It's just another one of those 1+1=137 logic progressions we find so commonly here in the world of internet bike forums.

A failed frame almost certainly has nothing to do with a MFGRs ability to use materials. Yet each and every time someone has a frame problem the logical jump is to "They don't know what they're doing" often mentioned in the case of MFGRs that have thousands of frames on the road. All of which are just fine.

I empathize with the sadness and frustration that comes with discovering that your expensive bike is now a wall hanging (although often, defects can easily be repaired) but it would be far more intersting and productive if people simply said "Damn, my frame is toast, what do you guys think?" instead of running down builders for what is likely a one-off event.

There is nothing special about this failure - galvanic corrosion is a common problem with disparate materials, not nice, but not unusual. And the crack is probably due to the corrosion continuing underneath the bond and having nowhere to go but out. Sorry to see it but it certainly does not mean that Colnago doesn't know what it's doing. The C40, winningest frame of all time, speaks more authorative volumes to the contrary. As does the C50 and everything that has come since.

It all started with the famous "I was riding my Scott when I hit a pebble that turned me towards the curb and the frame collapsed beneath me. Scott builds bad bikes." thread from the misty past. This is just the latest incarnation and precursor to the next 100.


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## Len J (Jan 28, 2004)

andysykes said:


> Colnago clearly has a problem with Carbon longevity. I'd advise anyone to think many times before buying one. Their reputation for reliability is somewhat suspect.
> 
> I have had a CT1 (titaunium/carbon) from new. Bought in Dec 2005 and told it would last a lifetime. I have only ever used for summer events (no more than 2500 spring summer miles). I took it out from winter hibernation (nicely wrapped up and greased against rust), put on its SECOND ever chain (!) and noticed the drop-out had corroded and the carbon stay had developed a crack.
> 
> ...


Here is the problem as I see it Andy.

You are taking one instance and extrapolating it to the conclusion that "*Colnago clearly has a problem with Carbon Longevity*." & that "*Thier reputation for Reliability is somewhat suspect.*" Their thousands of (seemingly) happy customers would tell a different story.

Finally, you bought a frame (presumably) with full knowledge that they had a 2 year warranty and then slam them because they won't honor their warranty 6 years later. 

Show me a large scale bike manufacturerer that hasn't had a problem......That's right you can't. Your OP would be similar to the poster in another thread that had the Waterford failure (which BTW was more severe than what you have) screaming "You can't trust a waterford bike!", based on his one incidence.

I think (Though I could be wrong) your issue is less about the failure than the warranty.....you clearly think that they should honor a warranty that expired 4 years ago. I'd be miffed too BTW........although I would accept that I bought it w a certain warranty that has expired. And I would have posted here in a different tone than you did. 

I think if your OP had said simply.....

If you have an older Colnago frame where these 2 materials were joined, you may want to check for galvaic corrosion for your own safety and you might want to do it before the 2 year warranty expires, I think your reception would have been a little different.........but you choose not to do that.

BTW, I don't own a Colnago, nor have I ever....nor do I sell them, so I have no axe to grind here.

Len


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## Kontact (Apr 1, 2011)

terry b said:


> It's just another one of those 1+1=137 logic progressions we find so commonly here in the world of internet bike forums.
> 
> A failed frame almost certainly has nothing to do with a MFGRs ability to use materials. Yet each and every time someone has a frame problem the logical jump is to "They don't know what they're doing" often mentioned in the case of MFGRs that have thousands of frames on the road. All of which are just fine.
> 
> ...


Terry,

With respect, I think you are engaging in the same sort of internet silliness that you're talking about. What does the ability of a C40 to win a race in the year it was constructed have to do with the level of long term bonding/corrosion protection it comes with? The pro who rode it certainly isn't going to be riding it 6 years later.

This doesn't appear to be a one off - highly corroded Colnago anodized dropouts are not uncommon, even though corrosion on anodized and un-anodized frame parts are rare otherwise. This points to a problem that doesn't have anything to do with pro racing wins, but with the longevity of a privately owned bicycle - which is what this forum is all about.


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## Len J (Jan 28, 2004)

Kontact said:


> Terry,
> 
> With respect, I think you are engaging in the same sort of internet silliness that you're talking about. What does the ability of a C40 to win a race in the year it was constructed have to do with the level of long term bonding/corrosion protection it comes with? The pro who rode it certainly isn't going to be riding it 6 years later.
> 
> This doesn't appear to be a one off - *highly corroded Colnago anodized dropouts are not uncommon*, even though corrosion on anodized and un-anodized frame parts are rare otherwise. This points to a problem that doesn't have anything to do with pro racing wins, but with the longevity of a privately owned bicycle - which is what this forum is all about.


I've bolded a particular comment.....Link to source data?

Len


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## Len J (Jan 28, 2004)

Kontact said:


> I just did some searching. Highly corroded dropouts on Colnagos seem to pop up frequently, and Colnago likes to claim it is due to sweat.


Is that because the bikes are popular? Can you tell what the %'s are?

I've heard some of this but it's been pretty rare IME.

Len


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## andysykes (Apr 1, 2011)

Thanks

To be quite fair, I bought it on the reputation of Colnago and Ti frames; I certainly didn't know of the risks of mixed materials, nor did I think I needed to investigate the length of the warranty. Someone told me Colnago don't need to worry about warranties as they are over-engineered. (Ok, silly me)

But what's more striking is that Colnago aren't interested in the frame or the cause of the problem. I may be unlucky and have the only Colnago to have such a problem in which case the nay-sayers are quite right. That 's a logical possibility. But it seems very unlikely, especially given how the frame has been used and treated. But if you want to believe that, that's fine.


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## Pirx (Aug 9, 2009)

Kontact said:


> My question for you: If Colnago (or whoever) have a decent, repeatable system for electrically insulating the carbon from the aluminum, how does this step go wrong? If a layer of fiberglass (for instance) is actually missing from the inside of the stay, how did this happen, and how did the dropouts fit correctly in the stay?


Why is this a question for me? Obviously, I wasn't there when this particular frame was built. Other than that, you might want to look up the device of the rhetorical question. Your questions above are worthless in that function.



Kontact said:


> From the other examples of corroded dropouts on similarly built Colnagos, it seems like a little bit of a trend. I take it you disagree.


Given the fact that no "other examples" were presented in this thread, it is somewhat hard for me to agree, don't you think? You seem to claim that you know a number of such examples, but I guess you expect us to just take your word for it. 



Kontact said:


> The other factor in all this is that this level of corrosion is in no way typical of aluminum.


As an aside, from the fuzzy picture presented by the OP, I find it really hard to assess anything, let alone what level of corrosion we are talking about. I'm not even sure which stay is cracked: Is it the seatstay, or the chainstay, or both?



Kontact said:


> But I don't have a Colnago,


Neither do I. I'll restate some simple logic for you: OP has a cracked carbon frame built by Colnago, which he claims is due to a manufacturing issue. He proceeds to conclude that all Colnago carbon frames have an issue. The logic of that progression is flawed. In layman's terms, we can call this bullshit, even if it hurts some peoples' tender feelings. Nothing more needs to be said about this case.


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## robdamanii (Feb 13, 2006)

Kontact said:


> Here's how you replace a shovel handle:
> http://www.popularmechanics.com/home/reviews/hand-tools/4217173
> 
> What has an $8 shovel handle got to do with a permanently bonded dropout in an expensive bicycle frame?


Woosh....


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## terry b (Jan 29, 2004)

Kontact said:


> Terry,
> 
> This doesn't appear to be a one off - highly corroded Colnago anodized dropouts are not uncommon, even though corrosion on anodized and un-anodized frame parts are rare otherwise. This points to a problem that doesn't have anything to do with pro racing wins, but with the longevity of a privately owned bicycle - which is what this forum is all about.


The C40 was (and still is) owned by thousands of consumers and yet, I can't recall a single "Colnago doesn't known how to do CF" thread regarding that bike. Nor the C50 or any other more modern version. My point was simple - companies that don't know who to work with materials generally don't produce legendary products in that material.

I was addressing one thing only - the bold statement that one frame failure means that one of the most respected MFGRs doesn't know what they're doing. Statements like that are not based on any kind of intelligent logic and the person with the problem would be better served to skip the hyperbole and simply ask opinions about the problem and how to get it fixed.

I'm not heading out to the barn to check the stays on my C50, and I doubt anyone else is. So what good did the suggestion that Colnago is incompentent do?


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## terry b (Jan 29, 2004)

andysykes said:


> But what's more striking is that Colnago aren't interested in the frame or the cause of the problem. I may be unlucky and have the only Colnago to have such a problem in which case the nay-sayers are quite right. That 's a logical possibility. But it seems very unlikely, especially given how the frame has been used and treated. But if you want to believe that, that's fine.


The CT1 is a discontinued frame, so I fully understand why they would not be interested in the problem today. 

I think you have to understand that every frame builder gets a hundred "I was just riding around when it failed" stories a year. And it's very hard to understand who is telling the truth and who isn't. Time based warranties manage that problem for them. May not be fair, but it is what it is.

If you want to get your frame fixed, send a note to Craig Calfee - his repair service is miraculous. He saved my frame which had a big hole punched in the seat tube for $250. A small investment to recover a bike you like.


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## T K (Feb 11, 2009)

I'm sure Colnago knows why your frame failed, so they are not interested. They also know your warranty has expired and they owe you nothing, so again, they are not interested. I see your frustration but your first post was out of line. Just another, wah, my frame failed after my warranty expired but I still expect them to give me a free one thread. The only knock on Colnago I could see is that they are aware of these problems and they could offer you a discount on a new frame. But, they are probobly afraid to open the flood gates in the coming years if more failures are reported. If you really want to pursue this I would try to contact them and try to play the, corrosion, and you know about it card.
Me, I'd just get over it and get it fixed myself. But feel free to keep whining. These threads are always fun reading.


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## Kontact (Apr 1, 2011)

I have no interest in this turning into some nastiness over Colnago's engineering prowess. I think it is difficult for a well insulated dropout, like the pristine one on my brother's 1988 Centurion carbon, to suddenly lose it's insulation and start reacting, and there's nothing more to say about that. I also mentioned seeing this problem around, so here's some links:
http://www.bikeforums.net/archive/index.php/t-149294.html
http://www.roadcyclinguk.com/forum/forummessages.asp?dt=1&UTN=103990&last=1&V=1&SP=
http://weightweenies.starbike.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=61661
http://forums.roadbikereview.com/showthread.php?t=206582
http://www.roadbikereview.com/cat/2...lder-road-bike/colnago/PRD_49950_1610crx.aspx
http://forums.roadbikereview.com/showthread.php?t=234552


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## PlatyPius (Feb 1, 2009)

Kontact said:


> I have no interest in this turning into some nastiness over Colnago's engineering prowess. I think it is difficult for a well insulated dropout, like the pristine one on my brother's 1988 Centurion carbon, to suddenly lose it's insulation and start reacting, and there's nothing more to say about that. I also mentioned seeing this problem around, so here's some links:
> http://www.bikeforums.net/archive/index.php/t-149294.html
> http://www.roadcyclinguk.com/forum/forummessages.asp?dt=1&UTN=103990&last=1&V=1&SP=
> http://weightweenies.starbike.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=61661
> ...


None of those, from what I read, progressed to the point of splitting carbon tubes. The first one doesn't even apply. That's normal aluminum corrosion from exposure to the elements. (Chipped paint)

What I see is: Had the OP ridden his bike more, or at least inspected it every once in a while, it might not have gotten to that point.


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## Opus51569 (Jul 21, 2009)

As someone with no background in either engineering or chemistry, my questions would be whether this kind of reaction was a "known issue" when Colnago produced the frame, and whether there was some preventative maintenance on the OPs part that could have kept this from happening.

Given the materials involved, I could understand Colnago limiting their warranty regarding cracking or breaking. I wouldn't have expected corrosion to ever be an issue.


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## Kontact (Apr 1, 2011)

PlatyPius said:


> None of those, from what I read, progressed to the point of splitting carbon tubes. The first one doesn't even apply. That's normal aluminum corrosion from exposure to the elements. (Chipped paint)
> 
> What I see is: Had the OP ridden his bike more, or at least inspected it every once in a while, it might not have gotten to that point.


What sort of maintenance or riding schedule would prevent the aluminum dropouts from acting as anodes?

This isn't rust. Sanding it off the outside of the dropout isn't going to prevent it from forming inside the plug where the two materials meet. The outside is a symptom of the galvanic reaction, not the source. 

I posted the first link because chalky white buildup on a 3 year old aluminum dropout isn't "normal". Maybe this bike was used on the sea shore, or maybe it is yet another example of the same galvanic reaction as the 7 others in this thread. No one can know for sure, which makes it slightly more worth discussing than shouting down.


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## ronderman (May 17, 2010)

andysykes said:


> Thanks. very helpful
> 
> I guess the difference with the Trek or Specialized is that they give a lifetime warranty and would be worried about this.
> 
> ...


If you think you could walk into a Trek or Specialized dealer with a six year old frame and this story and get a brand new frame - you're kidding yourself. If, and that is a BIG if, you got the warranty you would get their lowest frame - a roubaix from specialized and, not sure what from Trek - you would in no way get an SL3 and top of the line madone - and this is not to say they would even do the warranty.

My point, a lifetime warranty is not the panacea you're making it out to be,


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## PlatyPius (Feb 1, 2009)

Kontact said:


> What sort of maintenance or riding schedule would prevent the aluminum dropouts from acting as anodes?
> 
> This isn't rust. Sanding it off the outside of the dropout isn't going to prevent it from forming inside the plug where the two materials meet. The outside is a symptom of the galvanic reaction, not the source.
> 
> I posted the first link because chalky white buildup on a 3 year old aluminum dropout isn't "normal". Maybe this bike was used on the sea shore, or maybe it is yet another example of the same galvanic reaction as the 7 others in this thread. No one can know for sure, which makes it slightly more worth discussing than shouting down.


I see a lot of aluminum bikes come through my shop, and a lot of them have corrosion somewhere on the frame. It's pretty common when something rubs against the aluminum, where it's constantly exposed to sweat or road salt, or where something non-aluminum contacts it. ie: it just happens. Any idea how many frames I've seen with a thick, fluffy layer of white corrosion between the dropout and the derailleur hanger? Seriously, get over it - it just happens.


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## mriddle (Nov 16, 2005)

*Fair enough*



Coolhand said:


> And this is your warning for personal attacks- seeing you have been here for many years you should know better. Please stick to the thread topic.


I stand by my post.
We do not know the entire story here.
Making said generalizations regarding one of or any of the most reputable manufacturers in the world is a bit...well I'll refrain.

Perhaps the OP should have posted in the Colnago forum. Maybe something like "Question for CT owners". 

I don't think I ever deviated from the topic.


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## skinny_herc (May 4, 2011)

I own a 2002 Colnago CT-1 and a 2003 Colnago C40 HP, and I've had major galvanic corrosion occur at the rear dropouts on both bikes. Currently, I've shelved my C40 as the problem has been much worse than on the CT-1. That said, I sent the CT-1 to Calfee to have them check it out, and they said that it was mostly cosmetic and could be easily repaired, so $150 later, I have a CT-1 that looks like it did the day I bought it. Hopefully their work is better than Colnago's.

All things said and done, I'll never buy another Colnago. As much as I like these bikes, I don't think their worth it--unless they begin offering lifetime warranties.


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## BMC1878 (Aug 3, 2011)

Interesting thread, and my first ever post on RBR so be gentle with me....

I am about to embark on a respray/restoration of a 2002 Colnago C40 that has some relatively obvious aluminium corrosion around the rear dropout. My first thought was that I could just brush back the aluminium and then apply some filler putty, before I paint. But after reading this thread I'm wondering if there was any way that I could reinforce the joint between the carbon and the aluminium to reduce the likelihood of the joint failing? For example, wrap over the joint with fibreglass. 

Anyone have any comments or experience with this?


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## SMCNULTY (Oct 4, 2011)

None of this is what you would expect from Colnago. I have a Colnago Extreme-C frame which has cracked in almost the same place. It's 5 and half years old and has been used a fair bit. I was surprised and disappointed after spending so much on getting a top end frame. Am considering buying the same frame again but all of this is putting me off. 

Cheers for the warning


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## battaglin (Apr 19, 2002)

I've am looking to purchase a used CT1. good thing I read this thread. guess I'll stick to buying italian steel frames.


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## cry lion (May 28, 2011)

When carbon frames weigh the same as steel frames that when I'm buying. Dura-bility, yes please.


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## MySpokeIsABroke (Sep 24, 2011)

*Not Smart*

It was posted on page 2 and then ignored. It's not galvanic corrosion if there aren't a minimum of two metals involved. And yet all the experts keep right on going. 

The only way to see what is the real problem is to have the frame examined by the MFGr or another QUALIFIED entity. The Mfgr is not interested in doing that, so they can take their lumps, in this case, lumps of coal on the web.

Since they are not interested in even looking at the bike, they will never know the cause of the failure. Maybe the owner dropped it from 12 feet straight down on concrete floor (just hypothetical - OP) Again, they will never know.

If I were Colnago, I would have the bike in for a look. What have they to lose ? $70 in shipping ??? At the very least they have lost one customer for ever.


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## cry lion (May 28, 2011)

MySpokeIsABroke said:


> It was posted on page 2 and then ignored. It's not galvanic corrosion if there aren't a minimum of two metals involved. And yet all the experts keep right on going.
> 
> The only way to see what is the real problem is to have the frame examined by the MFGr or another QUALIFIED entity.


Yeah man lets just send the frames to Boeing and let them x-ray them, and do some pentetrations dye tests, ultrasonics and then were done. Of course ALL frames will fail all of the above tests, not even mentioning they will fail in "general construction, design, assembly and execution", category: all over. I personally would call the manufacturer unqualified to make any kind of judgement whatsoever but that just me and what do I know.


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## nightfend (Mar 15, 2009)

I have had no issues at all with my Colnago Extreme Power. So often on forums only the negative posters say anything, so you get a skewed view of a product. I just wanted to say my Colnago has been trouble-free and is the best riding bike I've owned.


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## pmf (Feb 23, 2004)

nightfend said:


> I have had no issues at all with my Colnago Extreme Power. So often on forums only the negative posters say anything, so you get a skewed view of a product. I just wanted to say my Colnago has been trouble-free and is the best riding bike I've owned.


+1. I've had a C-40 for 10 years with no problems. The C-40's, C-50's, C-59's, EPs, etc have carbon lugs, not aluminum ones.


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## Kontact (Apr 1, 2011)

MySpokeIsABroke said:


> It was posted on page 2 and then ignored. It's not galvanic corrosion if there aren't a minimum of two metals involved. And yet all the experts keep right on going.
> 
> The only way to see what is the real problem is to have the frame examined by the MFGr or another QUALIFIED entity. The Mfgr is not interested in doing that, so they can take their lumps, in this case, lumps of coal on the web.
> 
> ...


Boeing disagrees with you:
Aero 07 - Design for Corrosion


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## MySpokeIsABroke (Sep 24, 2011)

*Done*



Kontact said:


> Boeing disagrees with you:
> Aero 07 - Design for Corrosion


Did you read your own info ?

From Boeing -


> Galvanic corrosion occurs when _*two metals*_ with different electrical potentials are electrically connected in the presence of an electrolyte.


This isn't a metal argument or Colnago bash. My post simply says we don't know the facts. And In my opinion, Colnago isn't helping their reputation in any way shape or fashion. That's their prerogative and choice.

Their bikes cost more than my car is worth. But my car isn't cracking and failing structurally in a way that could be dangerous. Not saying Colnagos are. But there isn't anything in the thread that has a conclusive basis.


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## Dave Hickey (Jan 27, 2002)

MySpokeIsABroke said:


> Did you read your own info ?
> 
> From Boeing -
> 
> ...


http://www.quakewrap.com/frp papers/GalvanicCorrosionofCarbonandSteelinAggressiveEnvironments.pdf

_Galvanic Corrosion
The use of carbon-fiber composites with steel structures requires
a thorough understanding of the phenomenon of galvanic
corrosion. In theory, as long as two materials have not
contacted each other, a corrosion cell will not initiate. However,
in case of direct contact between carbon fibers and steel
in the presence of an electrolyte, the wet corrosion cell could
accelerate the corrosion of steel and create possible blistering
and subsequent delamination or debonding._

LOOK figured this out in 1988... That is why LOOK used a fiberglass barrier between the carbon and aluminum lugs


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## Nielly (Sep 21, 2009)

From Kontact's link under "materials selection"

"Fiber-reinforced plastics are corrosion resistant, but plastics reinforced with carbon fibers can induce galvanic corrosion in attached aluminum structure". 

Also under Galvanic coupling of materials. 
"Boeing groups materials into four categories (table 1) of differing galvanic properties. The objective is to avoid coupling materials from different groups unless required by economic and weight considerations. If dissimilar metal coupling is required, proper finishing and sealing techniques and guidelines are used to prevent corrosion. 

For example, graphite fibers, which are used to reinforce some plastic structure, present a particularly challenging galvanic corrosion combination. The fibers are good electrical conductors and they produce a large galvanic potential with the aluminum alloys used in airplane structure. The only practical, effective method of preventing corrosion is to keep moisture from simultaneously contacting aluminum structure and carbon fibers by finishing, sealing, using durable isolating materials such as fiberglass, and providing drainage. Figure 14 shows the 777 carbon fiber-reinforced plastic (CFRP) floor beam design and corrosion-protection methods. An aluminum splice channel is used to avoid attaching the floor beam directly to the primary structural frame". 

I see that Dave had also posted some info. It does seem though from both posts that you still need to have moisture and the presence of an electrolyte to cause the sort of damage noted in the OP. Which would seem to indicate that the use and storage of the bike was perhaps not as presented?


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## Kontact (Apr 1, 2011)

MySpokeIsABroke said:


> Did you read your own info ?


Yup. Do you know the difference between an inclusive and exclusive statement?



Galvanic reactions require a metal anode, another conductive material and moisture. Open almost any BB without drain holes and you'll find water that condenses in the frame from temperature changes. It doesn't take much.


I suspect that it is easier to have a short warranty than have to add fiberglass after mitering the carbon.


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## Dajianshan (Jul 15, 2007)

This is making me think of that Merlin bike from a few years back that used an aluminum frame wrapped in carbon fiber.


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## AndyMc2006 (Oct 27, 2006)

I dont consider a frame that was built in 2005 to be old at all. I would expect Colnago to honor there warranty, especially if they consider there frames to be on the "high end" side. One more example of why I would only buy steel or ti frames....but im 6ft 4" and 255lbs, that is the primary reason why.


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## Kontact (Apr 1, 2011)

AndyMc2006 said:


> I dont consider a frame that was built in 2005 to be old at all. I would expect Colnago to honor there warranty, especially if they consider there frames to be on the "high end" side. One more example of why I would only buy steel or ti frames....but im 6ft 4" and 255lbs, that is the primary reason why.


They won't honor a warranty that's expired. The current warranty is 2 years, I'm told. Colnago does not say on their site.


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## pmf (Feb 23, 2004)

AndyMc2006 said:


> I dont consider a frame that was built in 2005 to be old at all. I would expect Colnago to honor there warranty, especially if they consider there frames to be on the "high end" side. One more example of why I would only buy steel or ti frames....but im 6ft 4" and 255lbs, that is the primary reason why.


I never cease to be amazed at the people who think that if something happens to their bike, years after they buy it, they're due a new one. The Colnago warranty, like all others, is for defects in manufacturing. Is there a defect in manufacturing here? No. If your car starts rusting after 100,000 miles, are you due a new one? Even if it's a Ferrari?


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## cxwrench (Nov 9, 2004)

AndyMc2006 said:


> I dont consider a frame that was built in 2005 to be old at all. I would expect Colnago to honor *there* warranty, especially if they consider *there* frames to be on the "high end" side. One more example of why I would only buy steel or ti frames....but i*'*m 6ft 4" and 255lbs, that is the primary reason why.


Using "They're," "There," and "Their" Correctly


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## Pirx (Aug 9, 2009)

Dave Hickey said:


> LOOK figured this out in 1988... That is why LOOK used a fiberglass barrier between the carbon and aluminum lugs





Kontact said:


> I suspect that it is easier to have a short warranty than have to add fiberglass after mitering the carbon.


So, you guys seriously believe that, in contrast to just about anybody in the world who designs, manufactures, and sells hybrid carbon-metal parts, Colnago is the one company too stupid to figure than one out? Sheesh, get a grip people. One might notice that there's plenty of those frames around that are doing just fine. Colnago-hating aside, why not chalk this up to a manufacturing defect, and get over it? Once we're there, yes, then we can ask whether or not Colnago should have treated this customer differently. I would say, yes, they should have. But insinuating that they simply don't know how to design and manufacture carbon frames is more than a little bit off.


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## nightfend (Mar 15, 2009)

My dropouts are covered in black paint. There is no rust or corrosion to be found and I ride my Colnago all the time in all types of weather. BUT, you know, I clean it all the time and maintain my bikes.

About the only issue I've had with my Extreme Power is that the paint has a few chips in it from road debris while riding. Otherwise the bike has been great.


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## Dave Hickey (Jan 27, 2002)

Pirx said:


> So, you guys seriously believe that, in contrast to just about anybody in the world who designs, manufactures, and sells hybrid carbon-metal parts, Colnago is the one company too stupid to figure than one out? Sheesh, get a grip people. One might notice that there's plenty of those frames around that are doing just fine. Colnago-hating aside, why not chalk this up to a manufacturing defect, and get over it? Once we're there, yes, then we can ask whether or not Colnago should have treated this customer differently. I would say, yes, they should have. But insinuating that they simply don't know how to design and manufacture carbon frames is more than a little bit off.


Having a bad day? Geez... life is too short....

I stated that LOOK started using a barrier in 1988....In the early 90's, Specialized and Vitus did not use a barrier and their frame were prone to corrosion and separation...

Who knows what, if any, method Colnago used to protect their frames from a similar fate...


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## QuattroCreep (Nov 30, 2009)

Stop and look at any carbon bike, not a mix material frame, a full carbon frame. Start counting the number of areas that metal and carbon touch. Stem to steer, head set to steer and head tube and fork crown, riveted on down tube stops, seatpost clamp, BB, front der., rear der. hanger, ect... 

Where are all of the Galvanic reactions with those parts? Stop and think about it for a while., then get back to me. The only thing coming to mind is carbon posts getting stuck in Al frames and a little assembly paste when installed will stop that.

Next the Drop out on the OP bike should have been fully painted. That looks like a lot of wear for a frame that has almost no miles and has been properly cared for and store in a safe palace. Why is the drive side drop out fine? or the CS/drop out joint fine?


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## Kontact (Apr 1, 2011)

Pirx said:


> So, you guys seriously believe that, in contrast to just about anybody in the world who designs, manufactures, and sells hybrid carbon-metal parts, Colnago is the one company too stupid to figure than one out? Sheesh, get a grip people. One might notice that there's plenty of those frames around that are doing just fine. Colnago-hating aside, why not chalk this up to a manufacturing defect, and get over it? Once we're there, yes, then we can ask whether or not Colnago should have treated this customer differently. I would say, yes, they should have. But insinuating that they simply don't know how to design and manufacture carbon frames is more than a little bit off.


Nope. I think that Colnago, in contrast to bicycle firms in the '80s like Look, offers a 2 year warranty, and does not sweat stuff that takes more than 2 years to fall apart. 

There is nothing special about Colnagos - they are decent bikes, but you can watch videos about how they are made - it isn't a special process. Miter, glue, assemble, bake. Same as any lugged carbon bike built since the beginning.


The only person "insinuating" anything is the guy who insists that what is obviously happening simply couldn't be - because it's a Colnago! Just because a company has a great following and charges through the nose, it doesn't mean that they do everything perfectly. Look at what junk Mercedes have turned into.

The reason there are "plenty of them and they're doing fine" is because the level of conductivity and reaction between the carbon and aluminum is variable - it depends on how much epoxy gets between the parts as an insulator, how much moisture gets in the frame, and probably how much riding happens that raises or lowers the electrical potential between the parts. None of that is predictable.

What IS predictable is the rate at which a painted, anodized aluminum part is going to corrode in the absense of galvanic action or harsh corrosives. Answer: Much slower than Colnago dropouts frequently crust over.


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## ciclisto (Nov 8, 2005)

This is all a bunch of BS,, I have a Colnago C50 2006 now five years old I ride all the time and live on the ocean. I leave it in the garage facing the ocean, the ocean corrodes aluminum and yet my bike looks like the day I bought it. it has 10000 miles on it the rear has some patina to the metal but this bike is built like nothing other than a TIME frame buy one and forget about it!!!!!!! these are the last of the works of Italian bicycle art before you all ride asian carbon which I own but not the same. Colnago is the standard as is Time the rest are Avis.


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## Kontact (Apr 1, 2011)

ciclisto said:


> This is all a bunch of BS,, I have a Colnago C50 2006 now five years old I ride all the time and live on the ocean. I leave it in the garage facing the ocean, the ocean corrodes aluminum and yet my bike looks like the day I bought it. it has 10000 miles on it the rear has some patina to the metal but this bike is built like nothing other than a TIME frame buy one and forget about it!!!!!!! these are the last of the works of Italian bicycle art before you all ride asian carbon which I own but not the same. Colnago is the standard as is Time the rest are Avis.


So, can we assume from your talk about the ocean that you don't understand the difference between regular corrosion and galvanic corrosion, as well as ignoring the factors that make the latter variable?

I will admit that your experience with one (1) Colnago is damning.:thumbsup:


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## Monty Dog (Apr 8, 2004)

The OP doesn't stack up - the CT1 was produced from 2000-2004 and even then it went from the straight stays to B-stays. The CT2 added HP stays - If this is a 2005-6 frame it's a CT2. I've got one of the original CT1s in polished ti from 2001 - it was repainted 5 years ago and yes, there's some corrosion on the bare aluminium drop-outs it certainly hasn't split the chainstay. In terms of galvanic corrosion, it's a known phenomenon from the late 1980s - I was working in the medical prosthetics industry at the time and we experienced a whole host of product failure problems. Certainly wouldn't say it's a generic problem with all Colnagos - I know plenty of guys still riding on Colnagos of that era because they are classic bikes.


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## cxwrench (Nov 9, 2004)

ciclisto said:


> This is all a bunch of BS,, I have a Colnago C50 2006 now five years old I ride all the time and live on the ocean. I leave it in the garage facing the ocean, the ocean corrodes aluminum and yet my bike looks like the day I bought it. it has 10000 miles on it the rear has some patina to the metal but this bike is built like nothing other than a TIME frame buy one and forget about it!!!!!!! these are the last of the works of Italian bicycle art before you all ride asian carbon which I own but not the same. Colnago is the standard as is Time the rest are Avis.


you do realize that only the very high end colnago frames are actually 'italian' right? and even that is questionable. the majority of their product is actually made in the giant factory in taiwan.


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## paredown (Oct 18, 2006)

cxwrench said:


> you do realize that only the very high end colnago frames are actually 'italian' right? and even that is questionable. the majority of their product is actually made in the giant factory in taiwan.


*Ahem* As the wikipedia article has said for some time:



> "For the 2006 model year, Colnago will be sourcing two entry-level aluminum road bike models from Giant, made to Colnago's spec and frame geometry and for sales in Europe and Asia only. All other Colnago bicycles are assembled in Italy. No Colnago carbon fiber frames are made at Giant and none will be, as Mr. Colnago has a long-term sourcing agreement in place with ATR for carbon fiber bicycle frames."[citation needed]
> 
> The previous statement may have been valid for the 2006 model year.
> 
> ...


Not sure why this canard gets hauled out as an argument "Colnagos are no better than an expensive Giant" implying that only dupes would buy one...

Oh and BTW I had a B-Stay CT-1 that was an ex team bike and it was immaculate when I bought it, and showed no signs of any problems--drop-outs or anything else when I reluctantly resold it two years later.


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## Kontact (Apr 1, 2011)

paredown said:


> *Ahem* As the wikipedia article has said for some time:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


How did you manage to get it different than what is there right now?


> Despite this denial, since 2007 Colnago's carbon CLX has been manufactured in Taiwan [6]. In 2008, a second Colnago carbon fiber model, the CX-1 was sourced in Taiwan.
> 
> The top Colnago frames (C59, C50(discontinued), Power Extreme, Extreme C) continue to be manufactured in Italy.


And no one made the argument you're suggesting (except you). CX just responded to the "before you all ride Asian" comment. Colnago manufactures most of their line in Asia, which makes the comment weird, and your response weirder. Of course, Wiki is 5 years out of date...


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## Fivethumbs (Jul 26, 2005)

Did anybody notice the OP posted this thread APRIL 1st!!?? As in April Fool!!


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## paredown (Oct 18, 2006)

Kontact said:


> How did you manage to get it different than what is there right now?
> 
> 
> And no one made the argument you're suggesting (except you). CX just responded to the "before you all ride Asian" comment. Colnago manufactures most of their line in Asia, which makes the comment weird, and your response weirder. Of course, Wiki is 5 years out of date...


The direct quote I was responding to, if you read closely was:


> ...only the very high end colnago frames are actually 'italian' right? and even that is questionable."


 So not weird to my mind, since for years people have been trying to say that the high end Colnagos are not made in Italy, which is untrue.

Not questionable. All the high end Colnago frames are made in Italy. Full stop. So not "questionable" as was implied.

The difference in the Wiki page is because I started editing it last night, since it was a bit of a mess.

An open question would be what % of the Colnago business is from their mid-priced frames (carbon/aluminum) and what % is from their made-in-Italy high end frames. If I can find this information, I will share


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## Kontact (Apr 1, 2011)

paredown said:


> The direct quote I was responding to, if you read closely was:
> So not weird to my mind, since for years people have been trying to say that the high end Colnagos are not made in Italy, which is untrue.
> 
> Not questionable. All the high end Colnago frames are made in Italy. Full stop. So not "questionable" as was implied.
> ...


It is "questionable" because many makers are now assembling their frames from imported molded sub-assemblies. There are rumors that Trek is doing this with the 6.9 Madone. And since Colnago seems to have moved away from the tube and lug method to something more like a Madone, it can certainly make one wonder.

But if you know where we can view something that says "Made completely in Italy", I'm sure everyone would be interested.


But the thread really isn't about whether Colnago is part Asian or all Asian. Just whether they skip a step in production that sometimes causes failures. I'm sure they can do that in Asia or Italy.


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## nightfend (Mar 15, 2009)

This thread is ridiculous. The CT-1 that the OP originally talked about is an OLD frame. Colnago does not even build half metal-half carbon frames like that anymore. It is a non-issue.


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## Kontact (Apr 1, 2011)

nightfend said:


> This thread is ridiculous. The CT-1 that the OP originally talked about is an OLD frame. Colnago does not even build half metal-half carbon frames like that anymore. It is a non-issue.


Okay. What are current C-59 dropouts made of?


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## nightfend (Mar 15, 2009)

Aluminum that is painted black.


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## framesti (Jan 26, 2009)

*aluminum dropouts*



nightfend said:


> Aluminum that is painted black.


that's terrible. Serotta uses titanium on its carbon frames.
I think I read about C-40s with bottom bracket delamination too. Great.


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## Fivethumbs (Jul 26, 2005)

The thread was a joke...


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## Kontact (Apr 1, 2011)

nightfend said:


> Aluminum that is painted black.


Progress.


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## Nearly Roadkill (Jun 14, 2006)

*Same problem*

To the doubters, first I'll say I love my Colnago CT-1. That's what makes my problem such a big deal. I have a 2000 CT-1 and just this week I found that my drive side chain stay is cracking where the aluminum dropout goes into the carbon fiber chainstay. I have contacted Calfee and BikeFrameRepairs.com, and both have said that fixing it is a possibility, but if it is caused by galvanic corrosion, and if the corrosion has broken the bond, it may be unrepairable. According to both companies, this is not an unusual problem on these bikes. So, would I buy another Colnago? Well, I'm hoping mine can be fixed, but if not, I'll be looking for a frame to build. Would I buy another early CT-1? Probably not. My research has indicated that this is a much more common problem than most of the readers of this tread realize. Oh, and my spare bike is a mid 90's Trek with carbon tubes and aluminum lugs and stays. No problems with it at all.


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## nightfend (Mar 15, 2009)

I own a Colnago Extreme Power, and have had no problems at all with the bike. I guess it all depends on how long you expect a bike to last without problems. If my frame gives me three years of problem free riding, I'm good. Any more than that and it's just a bonus.

CT-1's are old frames, and they use a technology that Colnago abandoned which is mixing Ti with carbon. I don't think you'll find this issue with the newer full-carbon Colnagos.


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## Kontact (Apr 1, 2011)

nightfend said:


> CT-1's are old frames, and they use a technology that Colnago abandoned which is mixing *Ti with carbon.*





Nearly Roadkill said:


> I have a 2000 CT-1 and just this week I found that my drive side chain stay is cracking where the *aluminum dropout goes into the carbon* fiber chainstay.


What does Ti have to do with this CT-1 failure?


Corrosion proof Ti is the preferred metal for mixing with carbon, as seen by Parlee, Calfee, Serotta, IF, Seven, Merlin, etc.


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## mriddle (Nov 16, 2005)

*All my Colnagos are made in Italy....*

When I need a saddle I order a Selle Italia.


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## newberge (May 6, 2008)

*Same problem with my CT 1*

I am glad to see/hear others have had this problems with the Colnago CT1 (2002). The corrosion on my bike is nearly identical to the photo provided by andysykes. The fact that it happened at all is pathetic. After dropping over $5k on my bike, I figured I would ride it forever (or at least until I could justify getting another bike.....). Having to deal with this turns me off to Colnagos. If any of the other nay sayers had the same problem with their bike/brand and found an unresponsive manufacturer, I doubt you would have much brand loyalty for the next purchase.


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## MPOWERD (Aug 1, 2015)

nightfend said:


> I own a Colnago Extreme Power, and have had no problems at all with the bike. I guess it all depends on how long you expect a bike to last without problems. If my frame gives me three years of problem free riding, I'm good. Any more than that and it's just a bonus.
> 
> CT-1's are old frames, and they use a technology that Colnago abandoned which is mixing Ti with carbon. I don't think you'll find this issue with the newer full-carbon Colnagos.


I have an Extreme Power frame and my aluminum rear dropout cracked in half at the hinge point, suffering from galvanic corrosion... Colnago have no more rear dropouts so I have to get one fabricated from CF to replace it...

Mine is not the only frame to crack in this same position. I have two other friends with the same frame that have had the same issue. The corrosion weakens the aluminum in the dropout and it cracks under stress...


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## jemoke (Feb 19, 2012)

The hell they don't rust.


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## tfinator (Nov 4, 2009)

jemoke said:


> The hell they don't rust.


I don't think this thread from five years ago was whole and complete without this piece of wisdom. The whole of the internet is in your debt.


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## mapeiboy (Oct 31, 2007)

Another Colnago Extreme power owner here . I don't have any problem with the frame after many years of use , 4000 miles/year . I got soak in rain many times during those years and have no corrosion problem so far . You should post your question at colnago forum and see what other owners have to say about this problem .


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## tfinator (Nov 4, 2009)

mapeiboy said:


> Another Colnago Extreme power owner here . I don't have any problem with the frame after many years of use , 4000 miles/year . I got soak in rain many times during those years and have no corrosion problem so far . You should post your question at colnago forum and see what other owners have to say about this problem .


At this point his frame is 11 years old. I think the topics done.


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