# Phil Liggett reaction



## Dwayne Barry (Feb 16, 2003)

So when someone comes across it please post it here. I can't wait to see if his reaction gives anything away as to whether he was a shameless schill and apologist for LA or was really dumb enough that he believed Lance and Big George were clean.


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## kiwisimon (Oct 30, 2002)

Phil Liggett said:


> . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .. . . . . . . . . . . . . .. .. .. . . . .. . .


Stay tuned for more


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## moskowe (Mar 14, 2011)

Obviously, he knew. It was the worst-kept secret in the sport. He's been covering the TDF for what, 40 years, and anyone with a minimum of insider knownledge would have known.


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## Dwayne Barry (Feb 16, 2003)

moskowe said:


> Obviously, he knew. It was the worst-kept secret in the sport. He's been covering the TDF for what, 40 years, and anyone with a minimum of insider knownledge would have known.


You would think but he seems just dumb (and possibly senile) enough over the last few years when he's calling bike races that I still think it could go either way.


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## Mailmover (Mar 29, 2011)

or Phil is keeping silent until it all comes out and then he can tell what he knows without repercussions


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## thighmaster (Feb 2, 2006)

Good commentators will always take the highroad and Phil and Paul do a good job. I think it's better that way for the viewers. There format isn't like eurosport where they can speculate and drone on for hours as well.


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## Dwayne Barry (Feb 16, 2003)

Liggett didn't take the high-road, in various formats he basically defended Armstrong when he should have known better. So he is either incredibly gullible or a ****.


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## Tschai (Jun 19, 2003)

Dwayne Barry said:


> You would think but he seems just dumb (and possibly senile) enough over the last few years when he's calling bike races that I still think it could go either way.


Phil stopped doping in 2006, like the others, and that is why he is senile now.


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## Keski (Sep 25, 2004)

I think he needs to dip into his suitcase of courage a little bit...


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## Jeff G (Jul 22, 2005)

Phil has absolutely nothing to gain by defending Lance anymore. I don't think he could dispute what now are clearly the facts on the whole LA investigation.


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## CHL (Jun 24, 2005)

Phil Liggett's reactions to the recent events have centered on guilt by "testimony or association of other dopers." There is a good precedence in American history to avoid this type of witch hunt. All of us who grew up in the American school system will recall the Salem Witch Trials or Senator McCarthy's inquiries into "Un-American Activities." 

Liggett thankfully wouldn't accept this and voiced concern of wrong doing by a possible unscrupulous individual who had ulterior motives. He doesn't have any problems crucifying anyone who has failed a doping test.

There is logic to his thinking. One must be able to "substantiate" accusations. Given the quality and amount of other evidence against the US Postal doping machine, I doubt that Liggett's position on Armstrong will remained steadfast.


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## MarkS (Feb 3, 2004)

How about Paul Sherwen? He was a PR flack for Motorola and close enough to the sport in the 1990s that he could not have been totally clueless. And Bob Roll? Was Lance doing more than drinking mineral water during the famous 1998 training rides in Boone, North Carolina? OK, maybe it was moonshine rather than EPO.


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## brady1 (Aug 18, 2011)

MarkS said:


> How about Paul Sherwen? He was a PR flack for Motorola and close enough to the sport in the 1990s that he could not have been totally clueless. And Bob Roll? Was Lance doing more than drinking mineral water during the famous 1998 training rides in Boone, North Carolina? OK, maybe it was moonshine rather than EPO.


I was about to start a thread on this very subject. I remember Phil saying that he asked Lance point blank, "Have you ever used drugs?" Since he was always talking him up and he would look like a fool if it ever came out that he doped. Plus he basically defended him during the original USADA charges. It will be interesting to see what, if anything, he has to say about this now.

And also with the Boone training rides with Bob Roll and Chris Carmichael. Was Chris ever actually his coach or did he just interpret data? (perhaps at the behest of Ferrari?) I would hate to think that Bobke was messed up in that but it looks like he had to know what was going on as much as he was around Lance and as silent as he had been on the subject on air back in July. (and now.)


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## Dwayne Barry (Feb 16, 2003)

brady1 said:


> Was Chris ever actually his coach or did he just interpret data?


Or was he simply a business partner as they both profited from the charade that Carmichael was Armstrong's coach?


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## brady1 (Aug 18, 2011)

Dwayne Barry said:


> Or was he simply a business partner as they both profited from the charade that Carmichael was Armstrong's coach?


That one too...


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## rydbyk (Feb 17, 2010)

Dwayne Barry said:


> Or was he simply a business partner as they both profited from the charade that Carmichael was Armstrong's coach?


^^I think you are on to something. Chris was simply a "beard".


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## The Tedinator (Mar 12, 2004)

^ This^

Carmichael is nothing more than Ferrari's beard. Hamilton basically laughs at Carmichael in his book.


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## sir duke (Mar 24, 2006)

Mailmover said:


> or Phil is keeping silent until it all comes out and then he can tell what he knows without repercussions


Too little, too late. 40 years as a cycling journalist and he didn't know? People like Liggett (and the others who knew) did nothing to bring the truth to the public. They are collaborators. I have nothing but contempt for them. I can't imagine how he'll approach his forthcoming statements but I'm sure they'll be farcical. He owes cycling fans an apology.


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## trailrunner68 (Apr 23, 2011)

Dwayne Barry said:


> So when someone comes across it please post it here. I can't wait to see if his reaction gives anything away as to whether he was a shameless schill and apologist for LA or was really dumb enough that he believed Lance and Big George were clean.


_"The USADA has thrown a cat amongst the pigeons. There's Lance, dancing on the pedals. Once you pull on that golden fleece you become two men, and it looks like he might make it. The line is not far now. There comes Jens Voigt on the outside. No, it is little Rujano--err, you cannot mistake Big George Hincapie. Yes, it's Hincapie! The pack is on Lance now. There's Landis and Danielson and Vande Velde. They are all there now. Oh, Lance has crashed. It's absolute carnage on the roads. I cannot believe it. Lance has just been run over by the Garmin team car driven by Jonathan Vaughters."
_


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## BigDweeb (Jun 26, 2007)

tr68 well done


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## sir duke (Mar 24, 2006)

Liggett will have to do so much back-pedalling that he'll need Ferrari's help if he wants to be taken seriously.


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## cda 455 (Aug 9, 2010)

sir duke said:


> Liggett will have to do so much back-pedalling that he'll need Ferrari's help if he wants to be taken seriously.



We should start a pool and guess what month and day Liggett will announce his retirement.


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## Fogdweller (Mar 26, 2004)

Dwayne Barry said:


> Or was he simply a business partner as they both profited from the charade that Carmichael was Armstrong's coach?


In Floyd's confession, he claimed that Armstrong had a financial stake in CTS and agreed to be the public product of Carmicheal's training programs to boost enrollment/fees from all the wannabes. Floyd said when they were training in Spain and Italy, CTS was publishing training distances, locations and stats that had nothing to do with what they were actually riding. The journalism community never picked up on the fact that CTS said they were doing hill repeats on a given day that was actually a rest day. Also said that in the three months that he lived in Armstrong's appt in Girona, Armstrong took 2 calls at most from Carmichael.


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## Fogdweller (Mar 26, 2004)

Ligget has been a paid speaker for Livestrong for years and has taken his fair share of free rides on the Gulfstream. Not sure how he'll react but it wont be pretty either way.


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## Dwayne Barry (Feb 16, 2003)

Fogdweller said:


> In Floyd's confession, he claimed that Armstrong had a financial stake in CTS and agreed to be the public product of Carmicheal's training programs to boost enrollment/fees from all the wannabes. Floyd said when they were training in Spain and Italy, CTS was publishing training distances, locations and stats that had nothing to do with what they were actually riding. The journalism community never picked up on the fact that CTS said they were doing hill repeats on a given day that was actually a rest day. Also said that in the three months that he lived in Armstrong's appt in Girona, Armstrong took 2 calls at most from Carmichael.


Yeah I knew of the business relationship which is what I was implying above. I don't recall seeing the level of the sham reached those heights though.


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## brady1 (Aug 18, 2011)

Fogdweller said:


> Ligget has been a paid speaker for Livestrong for years and has taken his fair share of free rides on the Gulfstream. Not sure how he'll react but it wont be pretty either way.


I thought he was...

Zero respect for these guys. I guess I'll have to watch the Tour on "MUTE" this year.


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## LostViking (Jul 18, 2008)

Have always hated the way Liggett (and many here) kow-towed to Armstrong and his mafia - yes it will be entertaining to see what Phil now has to say.

It's a pity Liggett has dug himself this hole - I enjoy his commentating - but perhaps this should be his signal to retire as well.


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## JohnHenry (Aug 9, 2006)

I am curious about Bob Roll's reaction after his awesome comments about " bottom feeders coming out trying to capitalize on the TDF's startthis year"


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## AtomicMoose (Aug 15, 2012)

LostViking said:


> It's a pity Liggett has dug himself this hole - I enjoy his commentating - but perhaps this should be his signal to retire as well.


Feel exactly the same. I was kinda surprised that he would take such a public stance in favor of LA earlier this summer. Sure, he's on the LiveStrong payroll, but as a "journalist" you'd like to think it was safer for him to stay as neutral as possible. Protect his future endeavors.

I do think that commentating on future races would be boring drivel without Liggett moving forward if that happened.


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## gh1 (Jun 7, 2008)

They all need to be replaced with the USN squad, they do a decent job. In addition, do the right thing and hire Frankie Andrieu back to do the rider interviews.


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## orange_julius (Jan 24, 2003)

sir duke said:


> Too little, too late. 40 years as a cycling journalist and he didn't know? People like Liggett (and the others who knew) did nothing to bring the truth to the public. They are collaborators. I have nothing but contempt for them. I can't imagine how he'll approach his forthcoming statements but I'm sure they'll be farcical. He owes cycling fans an apology.


Sir duke, are you really calling Liggett a "journalist"? >:^O


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## terzo rene (Mar 23, 2002)

I read somewhere that Phil, Paul and LA are partners in a gold mine in Africa, so I doubt he will do anything other than read whatever LA's attorneys prepare for him.

If the sponsorship money dries up for LA, and the political clout with it, it will be interesting to see if any of these well paid "friends" are still around. I still haven't given up my long ago bet that LA will end up homeless, pushing a shopping cart around, muttering about enemies.


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## jackattack (Oct 6, 2008)

all these guys are in the known,
they just follow the code of silence.
if the UCI knows..everybody close to cycling knows.
I have been following cycling for over 25 yrs now..even my brother in law, in France tells me the amateurs take stuff to move up the food chain..

it is well known.
Do you think merkxx won on pan y aqua?


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## MR_GRUMPY (Aug 21, 2002)

He's waiting for the cross-examination to be finished.

Wait....They skipped that part of the process.
.
.
.


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## The Tedinator (Mar 12, 2004)

I keep hitting Phil's twitter feed. Although I wouldn't call him a prolific tweeter, he is usually consistent. But now, ever since October 2nd, just the sound of crickets.


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## simonaway427 (Jul 12, 2010)

Paul Sherwin is starting to pipe up on twitter - pathetic.

He's trying to come off that this whole situation is completely foreign to him - like out of a movie script.

What a dou$%e.


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## Dwayne Barry (Feb 16, 2003)

simonaway427 said:


> Paul Sherwin is starting to pipe up on twitter - pathetic.
> 
> He's trying to come off that this whole situation is completely foreign to him - like out of a movie script.
> 
> What a dou$%e.


Seemed to me Sherwin mostly had the good sense to keep his mouth shut about it, it was Phil that usually had the foolish things to say. So Sherwin is basically still playing dumb.


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## Local Hero (Jul 8, 2010)

My prediction: Phil is going to refer to it as "shameful" and dismiss that chapter in cycling history with a waive of the hand...then immediately move on.


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## Big-foot (Dec 14, 2002)

CHL said:


> Phil Liggett's reactions to the recent events have centered on guilt by "testimony or association of other dopers." There is a good precedence in American history to avoid this type of witch hunt. All of us who grew up in the American school system will recall the Salem Witch Trials or Senator McCarthy's inquiries into "Un-American Activities." .


.......................


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## orange_julius (Jan 24, 2003)

Here it is on Cyclingnews:
Despite USADA's Evidence Liggett Remains Armstrong's Supporter | Cyclingnews.com

This is beyond sad here:


> “If he’s been taking drugs then of course it’s right [to sanction] but they still lack the absolute proof as far as I’m aware. I still am a supporter of Armstrong. Whatever way we look at it Lance has been good for the sport. No one can condone, if it’s finally proved, that he’s ridden his whole career on drugs. I had an email from an eminent scientist from the US yesterday. An SMS actually. It said if Lance Armstrong had taken the drugs outlined by USADA he’d have been dead ten years ago. He’s an eminent scientist and a very intelligent man. I don’t know his name, the SMS came from a secondary person.”


That's great - all his information has been second-hand anyway. He knew somebody who knew somebody who is really really eminent. That's really great, Phil.


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## Big-foot (Dec 14, 2002)

This is beyond sad here:
That's great - all his information has been second-hand anyway. He knew somebody who knew somebody who is really really eminent. That's really great said:


> Finally, some actual hearsay evidence associated with this case.


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## Dwayne Barry (Feb 16, 2003)

orange_julius said:


> Here it is on Cyclingnews:
> Despite USADA's Evidence Liggett Remains Armstrong's Supporter | Cyclingnews.com
> 
> This is beyond sad here:
> ...


Jesus Christ we know that tons of cyclists took those same drugs and didn't die. I think Phil and his scientist might be mentally retarded.


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## brady1 (Aug 18, 2011)

"It said if Lance Armstrong had taken the drugs outlined by USADA he’d have been dead ten years ago."

Technically, the cancer he had should have killed him. So what's the guy's point?


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## shoegazer (Nov 2, 2007)

CHOAD

Unbelievable - I actually had to read that article twice to make sure I understood what Phil was quoted as saying. He's not mentally well IMO


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## Fireform (Dec 15, 2005)

Wow. Ligget certainly does look "a bit of a fool." Tool from head to food, more like.


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## Rashadabd (Sep 17, 2011)

He's starting to see the light apparently:

Liggett admits he now finds it very difficult not to believe Armstrong took drugs


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## The Tedinator (Mar 12, 2004)

This is sad. Phil is "the voice" of my televised experience of pro cycling. It is really time to let go and enjoy his remaining years. The omerta is causing him to come across as demented.


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## LostViking (Jul 18, 2008)

He is sticking by Dopestrong - still insisting that it's a "witchhunt" and apeing the comments of Lance's lawyers.
At the same time he is back-pedaling on his claim that he would retire if Lance was found to have doped - he is saying that he is contractually bound to continue.

He was a great commentator, but he has lost his way and I can't say that I respect him anymore.


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## thechriswebb (Nov 21, 2008)

The Tedinator said:


> This is sad. Phil is "the voice" of my televised experience of pro cycling. It is really time to let go and enjoy his remaining years. The omerta is causing him to come across as demented.


Apparently he wants to retire but his contract won't let him.


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## sir duke (Mar 24, 2006)

Dwayne Barry said:


> Jesus Christ we know that tons of cyclists took those same drugs and didn't die. I think Phil and his scientist might be mentally retarded.





> Liggett will have to do so much back-pedalling that he'll need Ferrari's help if he wants to be taken seriously.


Was I right or was I right? Liggett is 'president for life' in Absurdistan. :idea:


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## cmdrpiffle (Mar 28, 2006)

trailrunner68 said:


> _"The USADA has thrown a cat amongst the pigeons. There's Lance, dancing on the pedals. Once you pull on that golden fleece you become two men, and it looks like he might make it. The line is not far now. There comes Jens Voigt on the outside. No, it is little Rujano--err, you cannot mistake Big George Hincapie. Yes, it's Hincapie! The pack is on Lance now. There's Landis and Danielson and Vande Velde. They are all there now. Oh, Lance has crashed. It's absolute carnage on the roads. I cannot believe it. Lance has just been run over by the Garmin team car driven by Jonathan Vaughters."
> _


I totally read that in Phil's voice. Nicely played Sir, nicely played:thumbsup:


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## robdamanii (Feb 13, 2006)

And people wonder why I absolutely refuse to watch anything that Liggett commentates?


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## cda 455 (Aug 9, 2010)

trailrunner68 said:


> _"The USADA has thrown a cat amongst the pigeons. There's Lance, dancing on the pedals. Once you pull on that golden fleece you become two men, and it looks like he might make it. The line is not far now. There comes Jens Voigt on the outside. No, it is little Rujano--err, you cannot mistake Big George Hincapie. Yes, it's Hincapie! The pack is on Lance now. There's Landis and Danielson and Vande Velde. They are all there now. Oh, Lance has crashed. It's absolute carnage on the roads. I cannot believe it. Lance has just been run over by the Garmin team car driven by Jonathan Vaughters."
> _


:lol: :lol: :lol:



cmdrpiffle said:


> I totally read that in Phil's voice. Nicely played Sir, nicely played:thumbsup:



Totally agree!


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## nate (Jun 20, 2004)

thechriswebb said:


> Apparently he wants to retire but his contract won't let him.


I don't see how a contract could prevent him from retiring. Liggett's using it as an excuse because he had previously said he would retire if Armstrong was proven a doper.


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## sir duke (Mar 24, 2006)

orange_julius said:


> Sir duke, are you really calling Liggett a "journalist"? >:^O


Only in the same sense that Lance is a 7 time TDF winner...


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## Zombie John (Jul 25, 2011)

Liggett admits he now finds it very difficult not to believe Armstrong took drugs


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## eyebob (Feb 3, 2004)

*to be fair to Phil and Paul*

They could have easily commented on many, many riders whom they knew could not be clean....

BUT

it's not what you know, it's what you can prove. 

Neither likely had direct evidence, so they just call the race as they see it. How fun do you think the past 10 years have been for those guys? Knowing that they are watching a farce.

rmt


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