# Tire choice advice for centuries: Gatorskins vs 4000S II?



## teslaosiris

So my winter training tires are worn out and needing to be replaced just in time for century season. I'm trying to decide what tires I should go with since my only experience last year was with Continental UltraSports.

I have decided I'm either going with Gatorskins for puncture protection or 4000S IIs for ride and speed improvements. What would everyone recommend?


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## tednugent

The middle

Grand Prix 4 seasons


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## Mr645

<--happy with the Michelin Pro4 Endurance 25cm tires for long distances. Not many flats, they roll good and are comfortable


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## NJBiker72

I like my combo of a Rubino Pro on the front and a Maxxis Refuse in the rear. Better handling and feel upfront, better puncture resistance in the rear. That said I could see getting two Rubino Pro next time.


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## kbiker3111

teslaosiris said:


> So my winter training tires are worn out and needing to be replaced just in time for century season. I'm trying to decide what tires I should go with since my only experience last year was with Continental UltraSports.
> 
> I have decided I'm either going with Gatorskins for puncture protection or 4000S IIs for ride and speed improvements. What would everyone recommend?


If you didn't have much cut/puncture trouble with the Ultrasports get the 4000s, if punctures are a problem for you get the Gatorskin.


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## Oxtox

as far as flat protection, my experience with Gators and 4000s is about the same.

get the 4000s, they ride waaaay better than the Gatorskins.


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## tober1

In my experience the GP4000s is darn comfy and provides pretty good protection. 
I find the Gatorskins provide better protection but with worse handling and 'feel', especially in the wet.


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## Social Climber

I haven't used Gatorskins myself (although one of my riding buddies loves his), but I have ridden several centuries on GP4000 S and am very satisfied with the combination of grip, road feel and comfort.


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## bcwall

I train with gatorskins. Have a set of gp4000s to put on when I want to go "fast" in organized centuries! Gp 4000s ride a lot better like everyone says. But I will take the extra flat protection any day for training.


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## Srode

I've used both - the gatorskins don't ride as well as the 4000s, but are more puncture resistant. I have never had a flat on the gatorskins, had 1 flat on the 4000s. I've put probably 2 times the miles on the gatorskins vs the 4000s too. The gatorskins are not very good (almost scary) on wet roads. Now I ride 4000s on my good bike and GP 4 Seasons on my Winter/Rain bike. If I was riding roads with lots of puncture risks I would go back to the gatorskins.


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## danandjan

I'm not sure why a century would require different tires, but I go with what's on the bike. If it's good enough to ride everyday, it's good enough for a hundred.


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## bikerector

I've been riding Maxxis re-fuse and they've been surprisingly nice riding for such a thick rubbered tire. They're supposed to be near puncture proof, which is good because there is a ton of glass and car plastics the side of the road from our harsh winter (and shady drivers blowing through 4-ways). 

I haven't used the GP's but the gatorskins last a nice long time and seem to have good puncture protection as well.

If you're running 23's now, a touch wider will add a little better puncture protection as well and smooth out the ride some.


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## tednugent

danandjan said:


> I'm not sure why a century would require different tires, but I go with what's on the bike. If it's good enough to ride everyday, it's good enough for a hundred.


some organized century rides.... it depends on the route.

for example, Ride to montauk, before I did that ride, I researched it and found that the route was notorious for puncture floats. Back then I bought Bontrager Race All-Weather Hard Case.... and was rewarded with no puncture flats, vs passing a lot of people that had puncture flats... including people who I rode with... both had puncture flats.


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## NJBiker72

bikerector said:


> I've been riding Maxxis re-fuse and they've been surprisingly nice riding for such a thick rubbered tire. They're supposed to be near puncture proof, which is good because there is a ton of glass and car plastics the side of the road from our harsh winter (and shady drivers blowing through 4-ways).
> 
> I haven't used the GP's but the gatorskins last a nice long time and seem to have good puncture protection as well.
> 
> If you're running 23's now, a touch wider will add a little better puncture protection as well and smooth out the ride some.


The Refuse really live up to their name IMO.


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## bikerector

NJBiker72 said:


> The Refuse really live up to their name IMO.


First thing I thought when I grabbed them was it was the thickest rubber on a sidewall I've ever seen for a folding road tire. Also seem to be reasonably grippy for a long wearing training tire, lots of softer rubber vs harder rubber in smaller amounts on other tires? It seems to work.


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## danandjan

tednugent said:


> some organized century rides.... it depends on the route.


I ride in SE PA, Northern MD. We have varying road surfaces, quality, and debris (We don't have goatheads, that western plague).

I'd be as unhappy stranded out on a ride as I would be on a century.


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## NJBiker72

danandjan said:


> I ride in SE PA, Northern MD. We have varying road surfaces, quality, and debris (We don't have goatheads, that western plague).
> 
> I'd be as unhappy stranded out on a ride as I would be on a century.


A flat does not strand you if you learn how to change a tube. It is not a fun part of the ride but not the end all. 

In fact a century is not the worst place to flat as even if you do not know what you are doing someone will help you.


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## danandjan

NJBiker72 said:


> A flat does not strand you if you learn how to change a tube. It is not a fun part of the ride but not the end all.
> 
> In fact a century is not the worst place to flat as even if you do not know what you are doing someone will help you.


This is true, and I've changed my share on the side of the road.

I've also had faulty valves, sidewall blowouts, and non-functioning CO2 and pumps. Sometimes you get stranded.

You're right -- usually more help at a century ride.

So this means the same tires that work everyday should work for a Century, unless you're riding in an unfamiliar region. Then you should ask the locals what they ride.


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## NJBiker72

danandjan said:


> This is true, and I've changed my share on the side of the road.
> 
> I've also had faulty valves, sidewall blowouts, and non-functioning CO2 and pumps. Sometimes you get stranded.
> 
> You're right -- usually more help at a century ride.
> 
> So this means the same tires that work everyday should work for a Century, unless you're riding in an unfamiliar region. Then you should ask the locals what they ride.


All true. 

I carry a tube and a patch and a CO2 and a pump to cover those issues. If I was on my own would also head towards home after first issue. Not if in a group with 10+ guys similarly prepared. 

Other things may force me to make the call but its not going to be a tire.


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## bikerector

I'm not sure I agree with the idea of using the same tires on a century ride, unless it's a group century. I've done several solo centuries and if I'm 40 miles from home I'm not too inclined to want a flat. Usually I grab an extra tube and patch kit for these though and a pump so I don't have to worry about running out of CO2.

Usually it's a non-issue for me though since I don't ride race intended tires for most of my training, gets expensive to replace rear tires every month or so and I don't like using boxed off tires for races, especially crits. Not sure if the flat center makes any difference but it's more of a mental thing I guess of having a nice round tire for high speed corners. Conti ultra sport/race (stock on many bikes) seem like they would last a month before seeing the cords.


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## danandjan

bikerector said:


> I'm not sure I agree with the idea of using the same tires on a century ride, unless it's a group century. I've done several solo centuries and if I'm 40 miles from home I'm not too inclined to want a flat. Usually I grab an extra tube and patch kit for these though and a pump so I don't have to worry about running out of CO2.
> 
> Usually it's a non-issue for me though since I don't ride race intended tires for most of my training, gets expensive to replace rear tires every month or so and I don't like using boxed off tires for races, especially crits. Not sure if the flat center makes any difference but it's more of a mental thing I guess of having a nice round tire for high speed corners. Conti ultra sport/race (stock on many bikes) seem like they would last a month before seeing the cords.



Well race wheels and tires make sense.

I don't see a need for century-specific tires over everyday "training" tires and wheels UNLESS you're riding in a faraway place that requires specialized tires.


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## bikerector

danandjan said:


> Well race wheels and tires make sense.
> 
> I don't see a need for century-specific tires over everyday "training" tires and wheels UNLESS you're riding in a faraway place that requires specialized tires.


Good point. I always associate GP4000s as race tires because a lot of people race with them but they are definitely a hardier choice than many other race intended tires, so I got a little tunnel vision on my last comment.


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## danandjan

bikerector said:


> Good point. I always associate GP4000s as race tires because a lot of people race with them but they are definitely a hardier choice than many other race intended tires, so I got a little tunnel vision on my last comment.


GP4000s are great tires -- I found they wear well enough for everyday, whenever I don't mind spending $100 for a replacement set every couple of months or so...


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## scottma

I run 4000S', did 12 centuries on a set last year and ~ 5000 mi. Swapped out the rear tire this year for a fresh one, but the old one still had miles left on it.

If I were riding in an area with worse road conditions and was getting frequent flats I would consider a more heavy duty tire.


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## tednugent

bikerector said:


> Good point. I always associate GP4000s as race tires because a lot of people race with them but they are definitely a hardier choice than many other race intended tires, so I got a little tunnel vision on my last comment.


They are more race oriented because it does come with Continental's Black Chili compound.

the Gatorskin & GP 4-season do not have that compound


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## Srode

tednugent said:


> They are more race oriented because it does come with Continental's Black Chili compound.
> 
> the Gatorskin & GP 4-season do not have that compound


The GP4 Season compound is very sticky though - I use them on my Winter / Rain bike and the traction is great. The Gatorskin on the other hand is a harder compound which is probably great for puncture resistance, traction not so much - they are fairly loose on wet pavement.


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## Mace2180

I have been running gator skins. It's a bomb proof shell. I am considering trying the Maxxis radial 23. I have been hearing they are a lot faster. It won't be apples to apples as my gatorskins are 25's.


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## NJBiker72

Mace2180 said:


> I have been running gator skins. It's a bomb proof shell. I am considering trying the Maxxis radial 23. I have been hearing they are a lot faster. It won't be apples to apples as my gatorskins are 25's.


If you want more apples to apples, try the Maxxis Refuse. I have not tried the Gatorskins but the Refuse is a tough tire. Most say it has better resistance and traction the GS. Not sure I certainlybwoukd not say that is its best quality. Also it seems quite wide for a 23. Never measured but mine is definitely wider than the Rubino I have on the front.


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## Troy G

How does the Vittoria Open Pave compare to the likes of the Conti Gator and Gator hardshell. Or is more comparable to the GP 4000S.


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## bikerector

NJBiker72 said:


> If you want more apples to apples, try the Maxxis Refuse. I have not tried the Gatorskins but the Refuse is a tough tire. Most say it has better resistance and traction the GS. Not sure I certainlybwoukd not say that is its best quality. Also it seems quite wide for a 23. Never measured but mine is definitely wider than the Rubino I have on the front.


The refuse is a better tire, in my opinion. I think the refuse does better in the traction department, especially in the wet. Gatorskins are pretty sketchy in the wet, in my opinion. I haven't worn through the textured "tread" of the refuse yet which may or may not be the reason for the better wet grip. Gatorskins and refuse seem to be in the same ballpark for flat resistance I think, I've never flatted either of them and wouldn't hesitate to run them on dirty roads or gravel roads though it's still always best practice to avoid things that would cause punctures like glass.


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## mfdemicco

Which tires have the longest tread wear life? Seems to me that my 4000S tires wear out fairly fast, at least compared to the Conti Ultra 2000s I used to use.


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## Rokh Hard

Tread for on-road useBicycle tires for on-road use have no need of any sort of tread features; in fact, the best road tires are perfectly smooth, with no tread at all!


Unfortunately, most people assume that a smooth tire will be slippery, so this type of tire is difficult to sell to unsophisticated cyclists. Most tire makers cater to this by putting a very fine pattern on their tires, mainly for cosmetic and marketing reasons. If you examine a section of asphalt or concrete, you'll see that the texture of the road itself is much "knobbier" than the tread features of a good-quality road tire. Since the tire is flexible, even a slick tire deforms as it comes into contact with the pavement, acquiring the shape of the pavement texture, only while in contact with the road.


People ask, "But don't slick tires get slippery on wet roads, or worse yet, wet metal features such as expansion joints, paint stripes, or railroad tracks?" The answer is, yes, they do. So do tires with tread. All tires are slippery in these conditions. Tread features make no improvement in this.


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## HyperSprite

Conti GP 4000SII

I won't compromise on grip.


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## burobaaje

I use only Gatorskins as the roads I ride require puncture protection.  So far 20,000km with ony 2 flats.

My question is all things equal, rider etc. Just how much faster is the 4000SII than the Gatorskins? Only biking for the past 5 years I have a hard time understanding how tires can be faster than others. Surely there is not enough difference to have me change tires for a fast group ride.


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## NJBiker72

burobaaje said:


> I use only Gatorskins as the roads I ride require puncture protection. So far 20,000km with ony 2 flats.
> 
> My question is all things equal, rider etc. Just how much faster is the 4000SII than the Gatorskins? Only biking for the past 5 years I have a hard time understanding how tires can be faster than others. Surely there is not enough difference to have me change tires for a fast group ride.


Weight and rolling resistance. 

Heavier tires will make climbing and accelerating Slightly slower. 

Tires with more rolling resistance will slow quicker and require more effort. 

How much of a difference really? Not enough to change for a fast group ride IMO. Personally I like a happy medium, currently running Vittoria Rubino in 25s. 
I have run high end speedier tires (SWorks Turbo) and slower bombproof tires (Maxxis Refuse) and I Personally think this is the right choice for me.


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## guidoStow

I agree. The GP4 is close to the perfect all around tire...



tednugent said:


> The middle
> 
> Grand Prix 4 seasons


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## rm -rf

Riding on the shoulders? Puncture protection. A lot of debris accumulates there.

I ride near the right tire track most of the time, and most of these country roads have no shoulder. The car tires keep it cleaned off. In maybe 12,000 miles on GP4000S tires, I've only had a handful of flats.

Two pinch flats from potholes on night group rides that didn't call out the hole in time. Another pinch flat from hitting the sharp edge of a cast iron street water valve plus pothole at speed (not paying attention to the road ahead). A roofing nail. A rose thorn from a suburban street. A defective tube with a seam split. And a sliced sidewall from hitting a big pyramid shaped piece of sharp edged gravel right on the edge of the tire.

So one or maybe two of those could have been prevented by heavier puncture resistant tires.

I've picked tiny bits of glass out of the tread a few times after a ride, that didn't go through.


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