# Converting to Di2 for Specialized owners?



## roadworthy

I am considering swapping out my Campy 10s driveline for new Ultegra Di2 6870 11s. Has anybody done this on their previously mechanical groupset Specialized bike? I am wondering if Specialized sells a grommet kit for our bikes?...which entails the right grommets for wires versus larger diameter cables for the various ports? I have a '12 Roubaix SL3 with internal cable routing which is ported for internal Di2 harness routing. Please let me know if Specialized sells a dedicated Di2 mounting kit...perhaps including the junction under the BB if different than what comes with the Di2 groupset.
Thanks for any shared experience.


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## izza

I swapped to Di2 on my 2013 Venge. My nearest concept store informed me that the frame would have been supplied with a bag of spare grommets. 

When I said I no longer had this they admitted that it was rare that frame buyers kept them and they had loads spare. Swapped them for me FOC. 

As for mounting my LBS made me a bracket. One screw fixed it where mechanical wire guide used to be screwed. Other screw shrouded in rubber tube made contact fit with old rear derailleur hole. Worked a treat.


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## roadworthy

izza said:


> I swapped to Di2 on my 2013 Venge. My nearest concept store informed me that the frame would have been supplied with a bag of spare grommets.
> 
> When I said I no longer had this they admitted that it was rare that frame buyers kept them and they had loads spare. Swapped them for me FOC.
> 
> As for mounting my LBS made me a bracket. One screw fixed it where mechanical wire guide used to be screwed. Other screw shrouded in rubber tube made contact fit with old rear derailleur hole. Worked a treat.


What exactly is a concept store? Never heard of such a term.
Can you explain why your LBS had to fabricate a special bracket? Shouldn't all Di2 brackets be available off the shelf?
Do you have any pictures or reference of pictures?
Did you mount your battery internally in the seat tube?

Thanks for your comments.


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## brianb21

Roadworthy use the seat tube battery. It is much cleaner on the install and you then charge the battery from the junction box under the stem. My wife's Amira has the battery under the BB which is fine and works good also. I can snap some pics if you need to see anything!


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## roadworthy

brianb21 said:


> Roadworthy use the seat tube battery. It is much cleaner on the install and you then charge the battery from the junction box under the stem. My wife's Amira has the battery under the BB which is fine and works good also. I can snap some pics if you need to see anything!


Thanks Brian. Yes, leaning toward the seat tube install. I have a FSA K force Light 2 bolt seatpost which I love and I notice now that FSA makes the exact seatpost however with integrated Di2 hardware to use a circlip to keep the battery in place...so may opt for that.

I tell you what would help me quite a bit if you are willing to snap some pics. There would be four ports of interest if go with the seatpost battery which I likely will.
1. Back of chainstay to connect to the rear derailleur.
2. Front Derailleur port
3. Downtube ports....one side needs a blank.
4. Under the BB where the harness is routed. Any bracket to keep the harness tucked in?

As discussed I have the SL3 Roubaix. Downtube ports were tweaked a bit on the new SL4 and no longer any small allen screws holding the cateye shaped port covers...Specialized revised this to a round port for the SL4. Please see below...looks like a Shimano supplied Di2 grommet is plugged into the SL3 downtube factory port cover. Not sure if this is the cleanest preferred grommet config for the SL3 or not.:


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## brianb21

I will get that done today hopefully! That is easy to do, i converted my wife's amira and the tech had what he need and it looks good and works flawless!


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## roadworthy

brianb21 said:


> I will get that done today hopefully! That is easy to do, i converted my wife's amira and the tech had what he need and it looks good and works flawless!


Thanks so much Brian. I look forward to seeing what grommets you used in the different positions. This should help others considering Di2 as well.
Thanks again.


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## thumper8888

I've done a 2013 S-works Tarmac and 2012 S-Works Venge that were conversions and a 2014 Roubaix Sl4 that was a straight up 9070 install.
Tried to get dealer to cough up bag of grommets for the two that were conversions, but no luck... but many dealers I'm sure would if they had them laying around.
I did pick up some generic grommets at Home Depot in various sizes that did most or all of the openings. Not ideal but pretty good.
There is a small plastic bottom bracket fitting that is really as much to cover the hole there, which is no longer of any use, as it is for anything else, though there is space to get a wire through for mounting your battery McLaren-style under the BB.
This came with the Roubaix, I saw it and liked it for use as simply a cover (all three batteries are internal) and so I had my dealer order one for the Tarmac, I think it was about $15. Excessive, but you dont want that hole down there scooping up road grime. And even with that, had to cut a tiny piece of hard black foam to close up a remaining slit.


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## izza

roadworthy said:


> What exactly is a concept store? Never heard of such a term.
> Can you explain why your LBS had to fabricate a special bracket? Shouldn't all Di2 brackets be available off the shelf?
> Do you have any pictures or reference of pictures?
> Did you mount your battery internally in the seat tube?
> 
> Thanks for your comments.


Specialized Concept Stores are UK Specialized shops (Specialized Concept Store ? Specialized Bikes) 
The bracket was for me to have the battery on my BB/chainstay without the need for cable ties.
No close ups I am afraid.
Internal batteries not available when I did the conversion plus my bike shed has no power points to plug into so not an option for me.


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## carbonLORD

roadworthy said:


> What exactly is a concept store?
> Thanks for your comments.


You are kidding right?

https://www.google.com/search?q=specialized+concept+store&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ei=ioMCU5rvIujI0AWQ2YDQCw&ved=0CAsQ_AUoAw&biw=1720&bih=910


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## carbonLORD

izza said:


> Specialized Concept Stores are UK Specialized shops


FWIW, Specialized Concept Stores are World wide.


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## carbonLORD

My SW Venge has Ui2 with the battery installed under the BB. Frame came with the grommets and the Di2 kit came with all the necessaries. Its pretty straight forward, and easy. Just make sure to measure the e-tube lengths correctly and you're golden. I can forward the pdf's if you need them.


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## roadworthy

thumper8888 said:


> I've done a 2013 S-works Tarmac and 2012 S-Works Venge that were conversions and a 2014 Roubaix Sl4 that was a straight up 9070 install.
> Tried to get dealer to cough up bag of grommets for the two that were conversions, but no luck... but many dealers I'm sure would if they had them laying around.
> I did pick up some generic grommets at Home Depot in various sizes that did most or all of the openings. Not ideal but pretty good.
> There is a small plastic bottom bracket fitting that is really as much to cover the hole there, which is no longer of any use, as it is for anything else, though there is space to get a wire through for mounting your battery McLaren-style under the BB.
> This came with the Roubaix, I saw it and liked it for use as simply a cover (all three batteries are internal) and so I had my dealer order one for the Tarmac, I think it was about $15. Excessive, but you dont want that hole down there scooping up road grime. And even with that, had to cut a tiny piece of hard black foam to close up a remaining slit.


Thanks. Maybe we can both benefit from this thread if others post their grommet solutions. Shimano sells their grommets which fill a 6mm hole diameter. These maybe applicable to our bikes. 
I wish Specialized had a Di2 grommet package with an associated part number we could order that would cover a myriad of different installation options.


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## roadworthy

carbonLORD said:


> My SW Venge has Ui2 with the battery installed under the BB. Frame came with the grommets and the Di2 kit came with all the necessaries. Its pretty straight forward, and easy. Just make sure to measure the e-tube lengths correctly and you're golden. I can forward the pdf's if you need them.
> 
> View attachment 292230


Thanks CL...will dig around on the web for that PDF.
About the Specialized Concept Store which I have never seen in the US...at least in the cities I have been...including my current city. Are these stores owned and operated by Specialized or...are they local bike shops that are dedicated Specialized dealers?
Thanks again
PS: a question about E-tube lengths? Does Di2 come in different E-tube lengths? I presume the harness can not be hacked...or shouldn't be shortened or lengthened. If available in different lengths, do you know how many different sizes are available?


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## carbonLORD

roadworthy said:


> I wish Specialized had a Di2 grommet package with an associated part number we could order that would cover a myriad of different installation options.


They do.

Part# S132000002

CBS MY13 ROUBAIX / VENGE SW-PRO CABLE STOP KIT FOR SHIMANO DI2


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## roadworthy

carbonLORD said:


> They do.
> 
> Part# S132000002
> 
> CBS MY13 ROUBAIX / VENGE SW-PRO CABLE STOP KIT FOR SHIMANO DI2
> 
> View attachment 292231


You rock man. Thanks so much for providing this great bit of information. Will help me and others considering this installation. The kit you show is applicable to SL3 bikes like my Roubaix which have the oval ports with set screws.
Thanks again!
PS: Now the picture I posted above makes more sense. It is comprised of the two bottom parts to go over the downtube port for the single E-tube running to the shifters...other being blanked out by the other part you show. I didn't understand that until now.


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## carbonLORD

roadworthy said:


> Are these stores owned and operated by Specialized or...are they local bike shops that are dedicated Specialized dealers?
> Thanks again
> PS: a question about E-tube lengths? Does Di2 come in different E-tube lengths? I presume the harness can not be hacked...or shouldn't be shortened or lengthened. If available in different lengths, do you know how many different sizes are available?


The SCS are independently owned but Specialized assists with the build out and POP display. There are two versions in the business model but both allow owners to stock with non competing inventory should they choose. They only require that 60% of the store be dedicated to Specialized products.

The e-tubes themselves come in various lengths depending on frame size etc. I believe there are a dozen or so lengths. I also have the Shimano reference guides outlining the process of measuring and setting it up if you need them, but I'm pretty sure they are all documented online if you Google around.


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## roadworthy

carbonLORD said:


> The SCS are independently owned but Specialized assists with the build out and POP display. There are two versions in the business model biut both allow owners to stock with non competing inventory should they choose. They only require that 60% of the store be dedicated to Specialized products.
> 
> The e-tubes themselves come in various lengths depending on frame size etc. I believe there are a dozen or so lengths. I also have the Shimano reference guides outlining the process of measuring and setting it up if you need them, but I'm pretty sure they are all documented online if you Google around.


You've been a great help. Thanks a lot.
PS: my local Specialized dealer doesn't have any 11s Di2 bikes in stock...just a couple older 10s. They are nice people just not much help. Their claim is the demographic just isn't there...at least for their clientele.


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## carbonLORD

No problem. Specialized has 23 sets left in their warehouse. They do not show an MSRP however.


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## carbonLORD

I was going to PM you but your inbox is full and you can't receive any more messages. Feel free to contact me at carbonLORD(at)carbonLORD(dot)com if you need any reference materials. Cheers!


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## roadworthy

carbonLORD said:


> I was going to PM you but your inbox is full and you can't receive any more messages. Feel free to contact me at carbonLORD(at)carbonLORD(dot)com if you need any reference materials. Cheers!


Hey brother, thanks and sorry about that. Just emptied my in box. I am the guy who usually helps members with their tech issues. I appreciate you helping me. If you have another chance to send info along, please do so as time permits.
Thanks again.


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## brianb21

Great info for the do it your self person!


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## roadworthy

*Seatpost Battery Mount trick...*

As discussed, an internal seatpost battery is not only simple but really unclutters the bike with Di2..
Here is a video showing how to convert a non-Shimano specific battery seatpost without having a snap ring hold the battery in place. 

With enough compression, I agree the battery will not vibrate loose and fall down inside the seat tube. A seat post designed for a battery with snap ring insert is more secure of course but this looks to be a viable option. You can tune the preload of the battery OD to seat post ID based upon thickness of foam you use....a good option:
Shimano Di2 internal seatpost battery trick - YouTube

And here is Shimano's 11s battery installation in a conventional seat post...presuming 27.2mm O.D. A barbed housing holds the battery in place with a circlip. Of course this approach is a bit more invasive. Easy to remove the battery of course by removing the snap ring (circlip) but to extract the barbed battery housing from the seat post, maybe problematic as compared to less secure approach above.
How To Fit The New Ultegra 11 Speed Di2 Battery Into A Seatpost - YouTube


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## willembad

I installed mine using basically the first method, but used some bar tape around the battery and twisted it into the post. Mine is a lot tighter fit than the one in the video but if you twist it in the right direction it still moves. Twisting in the opposite direction tightens the fit.


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## carbonLORD

As much as I like the seat post approach, there are two things I am not yet sold on. The first is the clumsy new junction box that you have to mount under the stem. Now, I use a Garmin 800 and have a wonderful Tillquist mount...














... So it wouldn't be hard to mount it under the Garmin mount like this...







...using a little 3M double sided tape but the Venge already has an option for under the BB battery mounting which I like for the convenience of my second reason.
I have 2 batteries and can hot swap them, meaning no waiting for my bike to be charged and, no finding an outlet where I need to prop my bike up and wait. I also like the idea of bringing along a spare battery for longer events where I do multiple days out and camp (ie: the old AIDS rides that were 5+ day events at 500+ miles) since the battery weighs less then an innertube and can easily be carried in a jersey pocket.

Truth be told I have never had a situation where the battery died as the indicators do what they say, the battery holds a charge for a very long time before it indicates red, but these reasons are enough for me to leave it be. If I wanted to switch up to the internal battery it would only be a matter of a new junction box, port, possibly an e-tube wire to extend from the BB to the seat tube, and the battery plus the special clips Specialized has available for the Venge, plus the charger so were then looking at another $250+ for something that might otherwise limit my set up.

If you are starting from an 11 speed system, it is a no brainer, get the seat battery but if you have 10 speed and a bike that allows for use of the BB underside mount, save a little and enjoy the convenience of multiple batteries if needed.

Can you see the battery on my Venge?


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## roadworthy

willembad said:


> I installed mine using basically the first method, but used some bar tape around the battery and twisted it into the post. Mine is a lot tighter fit than the one in the video but if you twist it in the right direction it still moves. Twisting in the opposite direction tightens the fit.


Clever approach to use a helix of bar tape to tune interference fit of the battery within the seatpost. Nice addition to the thread...thanks.


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## roadworthy

You succinctly addressed the elephant in the room...what battery location is preferred and why. I like the hot swap access as you state and often pondered exactly what you wrote...having a back up battery on the road when not knowing when the next electrical outlet access would be available. This of course is more challenging with a seat tube battery but I suppose with a non circlip interference of a seat tube battery, all that would be required is an allen wrench to pull up the seat post for a hot swap. I nosed around the web for a car charger for the Di2 battery and never found one so presume one doesn't exist to trickle charge the Di2 lithium ion battery off a car battery...perhaps this isn't viable even with a converter.

I suppose in lieu of pulling up the seat post for a hot swap, a clever solution would be to have dual port access for hot swap capability i.e. have a battery within the post and then when that dies have a remote battery receptacle as you have under the BB which is unobtrusive for an external battery. This of course would take some clever wiring without disconnecting the seat tube battery but no doubt could be figured out. Low batt voltage of a diminished seatpost battery would have to be completely by-passed and couldn't be in series with an external battery as it would add too much EMF to the harness. A simple 2 position 3 pole toggle switch hacked into a E-tube wire would be pretty easy to implement. This idea may in fact be out there on the web some place.

Thanks for all your great insight. I will add, what a beautiful bike. In the bike kingdom, you own one of the nicest. I wish I could ride in that position but I am a bit too old for that now. My neck would scream after about 30 miles 



carbonLORD said:


> As much as I like the seat post approach, there are two things I am not yet sold on. The first is the clumsy new junction box that you have to mount under the stem. Now, I use a Garmin 800 and have a wonderful Tillquist mount...
> View attachment 292242
> 
> View attachment 292243
> 
> ... So it wouldn't be hard to mount it under the Garmin mount like this...
> View attachment 292244
> 
> ...using a little 3M double sided tape but the Venge already has an option for under the BB battery mounting which I like for the convenience of my second reason.
> I have 2 batteries and can hot swap them, meaning no waiting for my bike to be charged and, no finding an outlet where I need to prop my bike up and wait. I also like the idea of bringing along a spare battery for longer events where I do multiple days out and camp (ie: the old AIDS rides that were 5+ day events at 500+ miles) since the battery weighs less then an innertube and can easily be carried in a jersey pocket.
> 
> Truth be told I have never had a situation where the battery died as the indicators do what they say, the battery holds a charge for a very long time before it indicates red, but these reasons are enough for me to leave it be. If I wanted to switch up to the internal battery it would only be a matter of a new junction box, port, possibly an e-tube wire to extend from the BB to the seat tube, and the battery plus the special clips Specialized has available for the Venge, plus the charger so were then looking at another $250+ for something that might otherwise limit my set up.
> 
> If you are starting from an 11 speed system, it is a no brainer, get the seat battery but if you have 10 speed and a bike that allows for use of the BB underside mount, save a little and enjoy the convenience of multiple batteries if needed.
> 
> Can you see the battery on my Venge?


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## carbonLORD

roadworthy said:


> ...a clever solution would be to have dual port access for hot swap capability. A simple 2 position 3 pole toggle switch...
> 
> I wish I could ride in that position but I am a bit too old for that now.


I also pondered this idea as well as a switch, but you would have to write some custom Firmware and that is where I would need some direction. Once you update the Firmware to include the SM-BTR2 you cant go back to the SM-BTR1 unless you upload the old firmware. I have not seen anywhere that allows access to both, a patch if you will.

And I'm no spring chicken, as much as I like to act like it. People say I look 10 years younger then I am, but I'm, 39. Still, I continue to be in the best shape of my life <knock on wood.... er, carbon>.

Thanks for the warm comments on my rig.


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## roadworthy

carbonLORD said:


> I also pondered this idea as well as a switch, but you would have to write some custom Firmware and that is where I would need some direction. Once you update the Firmware to include the SM-BTR2 you cant go back to the SM-BTR1 unless you upload the old firmware. I have not seen anywhere that allows access to both, a patch if you will.
> 
> And I'm no spring chicken, as much as I like to act like it. People say I look 10 years younger then I am, but I'm, 39. Still, I continue to be in the best shape of my life <knock on wood.... er, carbon>.
> 
> Thanks for the warm comments on my rig.


Thanks for the further clarification on the firmware. Doesn't sound like a slam dunk to hack the harness. 

As to your age and how young you look...if there is a fountain of youth, it is cycling. Fast forward. Luke, I am your father.  Will be 60 in April. Hard to write.  I moved to Florida this winter so I can ride year around...and all the oldsters at the condo I am staying at thought I was 45. But even though I have a cyclist long and lean body and look young, make no mistake, under that veneer lies an old man's flexibility. So even though I can hang with the A group on my high handlebar Roubaix, I have to work a lot harder than you. 
Great chatting with you.


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## goodboyr

I think you are over thinking the battery issue. They take so long to discharge and you have so much advanced warning it simply isn't an issue. As well, Ritchey makes a great rubber plug that holds the seatpost battery in perfectly. Two sizes available to accommodate the different seatpost diameters.


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## roadworthy

goodboyr said:


> *I think you are over thinking the battery issue*. They take so long to discharge and you have so much advanced warning it simply isn't an issue. As well, Ritchey makes a great rubber plug that holds the seatpost battery in perfectly. Two sizes available to accommodate the different seatpost diameters.


In bold. I always smile at the 'over thinking' comment. You see, as a guy who created products my whole life, there is no such thing.
In fact, you are over thinking it....lol. You don't even have to put the battery inside the seat post. You can push it down the seat tube and suspend it in foam. 
Even simplier:
Glory Cycles Product Reviews: Install Internal Battery SM-BTR2 on Ultegra Di2 Bike


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## goodboyr

Happy to help. Sorry you're not appreciative of help offered. I was just suggesting a neater alternative to the pipe insulation method. And believe me, with upwards of 20 di2 installs of different kinds (and many internalized installs on bikes without internal designs) you don't need to worry about running out of battery.


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## roadworthy

goodboyr said:


> Happy to help. Sorry you're not appreciative of help offered. I was just suggesting a neater alternative to the pipe insulation method. And believe me, with upwards of 20 di2 installs of different kinds (and many internalized installs on bikes without internal designs) you don't need to worry about running out of battery.


I am grateful for your suggestion about the Ritchey seatpost battery shim but your opening salvo was back handed. If anything, everybody is ignorant of all the possible design options and nobody here is over thinking anything. The biggest dilemma for Di2 installations pertains to paradoxically a simple subject of grommets. Yes, the most complex part is something simple yet nuanced. How to find the most elegant grommets. The rest to me is cook book. You haven't addressed anything about grommets based upon your 20 installations. Surely you have something to contribute in this regard. For example, you could assert that the Specialized ports on SL3 and SL4 bikes are all 6mm in diameter and therefore compatible with Shimano supplied grommets. Or you could say the rear chainstay outlet port to the rear derailleur really works best with the Specialized supplied grommet only in your experience. That would be most helpful.
Thanks for your contribution.


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## goodboyr

Yikes!


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## roadworthy

goodboyr said:


> Yikes!


OK,
Let me try again.
20 installs?
Ritchey battery shim + battery will last forever.
Thanks for your valuable contribution.


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## goodboyr

Youre welcome.......I think.


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## dougrocky123

Recently did my 2014 Roubaix Expert in DI2. Used grommets from Shimano, Spesh and hardware store. Used Ritchey seatpost battery holder. Biggest problem was running the cables as Specialized left carbon bits inside tubes that hindered progress. Previous install on a Trek let me take take off cranks and bb bearings to attach junction box and wires. Spesh has a sleeve at the bb shell that I had to run wires over and around. Bought Spesh grommet kit hoping it had a bb cover but it did not so right now its just covered with tape. If anyone knows of such a cover please advise.


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## VanillaGorila

I moved my down tube cable from the right side to the left and I used a vacuum to suck a string through the frame. Then I just tied the cable to the string and pulled it through.


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## dougrocky123

Brilliant!


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## roadworthy

*Shimano Grommet Kit Location?*



dougrocky123 said:


> Recently did my 2014 Roubaix Expert in DI2. Used grommets from Shimano, Spesh and hardware store. Used Ritchey seatpost battery holder. Biggest problem was running the cables as Specialized left carbon bits inside tubes that hindered progress. Previous install on a Trek let me take take off cranks and bb bearings to attach junction box and wires. Spesh has a sleeve at the bb shell that I had to run wires over and around. Bought Spesh grommet kit hoping it had a bb cover but it did not so right now its just covered with tape. If anyone knows of such a cover please advise.


Excellent post Doug thanks. My SL3 also has a sleeve in the BB whereby adjoining tubes aren't easily connected...so wires need to be routed around that sleeve as you mention.
Can you provide two sentences or so more on what grommets you used and where? It would be even better to combine these brief words with pictures. The SL3 has slightly different ports on the downtube where conventional derailleur cables enter but believe that is the only place the SL3 is different from SL4 for cable/wire routing. Specialized revised the cable ports on the SL4 to eliminate the screws to attach the cateye shaped previous port design on the SL3. Did you use the Shimano grommet on the seat tube? Did you order the same Spesh grommet kit referenced by CarbonLord?

Quite right the holes under the BB for tube access is a dilemma and believe most run it open and/or leave the convention cable guide in place to cover the cavernous hole under there.

Thanks again.

PS: have a look at the pics below. Since the Specialized Grommet kit that CarbonLord posted doesn't seem to have a grommet for the either the down tube (external battery) or seat tube (front derailleur) I am presuming the kit supplied by Shimano is used in the ports with the yellow arrows...both shown below. Can somebody confirm this?


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## roadworthy

VanillaGorila said:


> I moved my down tube cable from the right side to the left and I used a vacuum to suck a string through the frame. Then I just tied the cable to the string and pulled it through.


Great tip. Also for those following along, this is an effective tip for threading standard cable through our frames. 
Another tip in this regard is to use a stringer straw that is used with conventional cables to pull the E-tubes through.

Thanks again.


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## goodboyr

Campy makes a great magnetic cable puller kit for EPS cables that works great for E tube stuff as well. Very handy for internal installs.


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## roadworthy

goodboyr said:


> Campy makes a great magnetic cable puller kit for EPS cables that works great for E tube stuff as well. Very handy for internal installs.


Very interesting. Wonder how much that costs? 
Bet its a great tool to have for a tech who does a lot of installations but not for a once in a while guy. Just a guess.


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## goodboyr

I'm not sure what's created this obsession with you that if I try to offer help you come back with some type of stupid sarcastic comment. Perhaps you should just get on with installing di2....since you've been talking about it since 2012! There.....I've stooped to your level. Happy riding.


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## roadworthy

goodboyr said:


> I'm not sure what's created this obsession with you that if I try to offer help you come back with some type of stupid sarcastic comment. Perhaps you should just get on with installing di2....since you've been talking about it since 2012! There.....I've stooped to your level. Happy riding.


First, my last comments weren't sarcastic in the least. Campy which I have ride and built 30+ bikes is known for their pricey, esoteric, 'specialty tools' of which I own a few out of necessity. This is a case...the tool you mention while no doubt would be useful for a shop tech like yourself, would be a complete waste of money for anybody who builds a Di2 or EPS bike even twice a year. If you don't understand the cost/benefit then I can't help you further.

As to the foot we got off on...you started it by your opening comment about over thinking different seat post options. You are completely wrong about that as well. There was nothing of the kind. You simply brought another option forward which is the spirit of this thread.

Lastly for a guy who has done 20 installations, you have contributed very little. Your comment about CarbonLord not needing a back up battery is complete BS as well. Batteries fail, even with the excellent battery life of Di2 if on a tour out on the road for weeks at a time and no access to charging outlet. I do agree this would be the vast minority of riders and battery life is a strong suit of Di2.

Finally, not only did you start with setting the tone of our discourse but you have completely missed the point about the biggest challenge of installing Di2. Intent or laziness aside, the biggest challenge of Di2 installation is the choice of best grommets for different port positions on SL3 and SL4 bikes...each bike being slightly different. You apparently have nothing to offer in this regard because that has been the pervasive topic of discussion of which you haven't contributed an ounce of information. You may in fact have no aesthetic sense and plug all ports with chewing gum for all I know. Or you only use what you have on stock and kluge your builds together. Lots of botched Di2 builds come out of bike shops and yours maybe no exception. So you can sit here and carry on a negative dialog with me because I am sure to oblige you if you want to get in the mud or you can just go back to the shop you build your bikes and not contribute which seems to be your intent and would be best for those who really want to weigh different design options for the cleanest build.


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## goodboyr

Please post pics of your install when available. Can't wait!


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## roadworthy

goodboyr said:


> Please post pics of your install when available. Can't wait!


You can't even be shamed into contributing...lol.
Not even sure you are a bike tech. Where are 'your' pictures?


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## goodboyr

Here:









In any case, I guess this beats internet porn. Although the analogy in probably accurate. Lots of sitting at the keyboard talking about doing something, instead of actually doing it. ............
Whoops I forgot. The grommets are holding you back.....right.


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## carbonLORD

My Venge only has the rubber plug on the downtube (originally intended for the battery mounted there instead of under the BB) and it came with the frame already attached. Though this seems like one of those things you could find at Home Depot. The other hole at the seat tube is for the Shimano grommet for use with the Front Derailleur.

The ones pictured are Specialized Part # *S122000007* (CBS DI2 RUBBER PLUG STOPPER FOR CLOSING UNUSED WIRE HOLES)









Shimano part numbers are as follows:









Shimano E-Tube Di2 Grommet SM-GM01 (6mm circles) 4 pcs
GM-01 is 6mm round.

or









Shimano E-Tube Di2 Grommet SM-GM02 (7mm x 8mm oval) 4 pcs
GM-02 is 7mm x 8mm oval


----------



## carbonLORD

Also, if you run the battery under the BB, it closes up the hole significantly. or, go a la McLaren. (keep in mind it has been out of stock for a while now).


----------



## carbonLORD

And last but not least, the part number for the Venge/Roubaix SL3 BB mount.









Specialized part # *S139900039*
MSC MY13 VENGE & ROUBAIX SL3 BB ELECTRONIC MOUNT KIT FOR DI2 (DA & ULTEGRA)


----------



## carbonLORD

I used the string technique but for the chain stay, I used a thin flexible aluminum rod taped to a piece of string since there was some blockage on that area. The hole under the BB is large enough that you can bend a coat hanger and scoop the etube wire pretty easily.


----------



## roadworthy

carbonLORD said:


> And last but not least, the part number for the Venge/Roubaix SL3 BB mount.
> 
> View attachment 292292
> 
> 
> Specialized part # *S139900039*
> MSC MY13 VENGE & ROUBAIX SL3 BB ELECTRONIC MOUNT KIT FOR DI2 (DA & ULTEGRA)


A tremendous help CL. Your contribution will make this the go to thread for those converting their mechanical groupset bikes to Di2 which I presume will become even more prevalent over time.
Thanks again.


----------



## roadworthy

*Forward Downtube E-tube Grommet/cover to Shifters?*

CarbonLord,
Can you take a look at the picture below?
I have taken one part from the first Di2 grommet kit you posted and combined it with the Shimano GM-01 plug. My interpretation is, these two parts can be combined to cover one of two forward downtube ports used to route the E-tube to the front shifters...the other forward downtube port being covered with a blank because there is no wire routing through that port.
Is this correct for SL3 bikes?
Many Thanks


----------



## carbonLORD

Now this I find interesting as I cannot find the part # for it. I took a picture of what I have on my Venge. It is a solid cover with the screw hole. I have to assume Specialized forgot to include it in the picture for the kit I posted previously as it doesn't make sense to not include this part.


----------



## dougrocky123

Back again. I used the 6mm Shimano grommets for the holes where I passed a cable through. I used one of the H2o bottle area plugs to plug the hole on the downtube. I used a hardware store plug on the hole where the FD cable came up from the BB ( in front of the rear tire). The main problem was the paint/carbon build up around the holes. I didn't get a satisfing pop and lock on any of the plugs/grommets but they have stayed in. The Venge setup looks a little better thought out. Sorry, don't know how to post pictures!


----------



## roadworthy

carbonLORD said:


> Now this I find interesting as I cannot find the part # for it. I took a picture of what I have on my Venge. It is a solid cover with the screw hole. I have to assume Specialized forgot to include it in the picture for the kit I posted previously as it doesn't make sense to not include this part.
> 
> View attachment 292303


CarbonLord,
The blank you show screwed in place is supplied in the kit you referenced earlier in the thread. Quite sure grommets A & B are used on opposing sides of the downtube as shown below. On SL4 bikes the ports do not use screws adjacent to access holes and a round grommet is plugged in to each side...one solid for a blank and other with a hole for the E-tube to connect to shifters.
HTH.


----------



## roadworthy

dougrocky123 said:


> Back again. I used the 6mm Shimano grommets for the holes where I passed a cable through. I used one of the H2o bottle area plugs to plug the hole on the downtube. I used a hardware store plug on the hole where the FD cable came up from the BB ( in front of the rear tire). The main problem was the paint/carbon build up around the holes. I didn't get a satisfing pop and lock on any of the plugs/grommets but they have stayed in. The Venge setup looks a little better thought out. Sorry, don't know how to post pictures!


Thanks doug.
If you have pics in your camera...download them to My Pictures on your computer.
1.Post in a thread
2. Go Advanced (below the thread)
3. Attachments Upload Photos
4. Add Files top right corner
5. Browse
6. Select the pictures you want to post from My Pictures
7. Upload
8. Done
Submit Post

You can also host the pictures on a remote website like Photobucket and use the hypertext in your thread for a larger view or to caption the picture. This is only slightly more involved but not difficult either. Nothin' but practice and will be second nature to you.

HTH and thanks for your help on the thread.


----------



## shanehill

I converted my '12 SL3 Roubaix from Dura Ace mechanical to 6770 DI2 last Friday night. Took 3 total hours. I ended up mounting the battery under the bottom bracket. I had to get a longer pan head screw and file the slot in the battery mount a bit to get the screw to fit down flush so the battery would slide in and lock. I used a 1/4 inch thick nylon spacer between the bottom bracket and the battery mount. Works great! I did the external battery so I could easily change it if necessary. 


Also, I took the stock ICR and drilled out the backstop inside the tube so that it was one diameter all the way through. You can then fit the di2 canbus cable through it. 


Shane Hill
'12 Roubaix SL3


----------



## carbonLORD

Ah, the long tube-like extension was throwing me off and I thought it was another brake grommet. Makes sense now.

So going back to your original question, yes, you would combine the Specialized part with the round Shimano part for the downtube entry.

The gray tube pictured in the top right is for the exit hole for the rear derailleur.


----------



## roadworthy

shanehill said:


> I converted my '12 SL3 Roubaix from Dura Ace mechanical to 6770 DI2 last Friday night. Took 3 total hours. I ended up mounting the battery under the bottom bracket. I had to get a longer pan head screw and file the slot in the battery mount a bit to get the screw to fit down flush so the battery would slide in and lock. I used a 1/4 inch thick nylon spacer between the bottom bracket and the battery mount. Works great! I did the external battery so I could easily change it if necessary.
> 
> 
> Also, I took the stock ICR and drilled out the backstop inside the tube so that it was one diameter all the way through. You can then fit the di2 canbus cable through it.
> 
> 
> Shane Hill
> '12 Roubaix SL3


Hi Shane,
Thanks for your excellent pics and contribution. Btw, I have that identical frame only in the Pro model which I believe is the same 10r carbon as your Expert. I run out of superlatives when it comes to this bike. Best road bike I have owned and I have owned 50 bikes.

As to your Di2 installation...a couple of comments.
I wondered about using the standard ICR but figured the E-tube connector wouldn't thread through. Clever workaround. Only thing I see with your approach is the downtube wouldn't be as sealed as using the dedicated blank with hole in it + Shimano rubber grommet. But your approach is likely fine.

As to your battery installation which is the same location as CL prefers as well, I admit concern about the stress that cable guide plate screw would endure. Recognizing the battery isn't too heavy, but still a lot of stress on a single bolt due to that mass hanging off it when riding the bike fast over bumpy road surfaces. Only my opinion. On my bike, also the female thread is ratty in that inserted hole. So on my bike, I would have little faith in that installation. With a battery installation under the BB, that single bolt is asked to do a lot more than its original assignment of simply locating a cable guide held in place in effect by compression due to derailleur cables resulting in very little stress on that bolt by comparison. So you may want to keep an eye on it to make sure that screw doesn't come loose or fail/yield...mostly concerned about the strength of the threaded insert bonded to the carbon shell. I believe this will be more acute if you ride the bike a fair amount on rough surfaces.
FWIW, weighing different options, I am going to go internal with my battery install I believe and opt for one of three options or more to place the battery either in the seat post or seat tube and remotely charge it off the front receptacle. 

This thread has been great to divulge different strategies owners have developed to personalize their Di2 groupsets which will no doubt help many decide their best path as well.

Thanks again.


----------



## roadworthy

carbonLORD said:


> *Ah, the long tube-like extension was throwing me off *and I thought it was another brake grommet. Makes sense now.
> 
> So going back to your original question, yes, you would combine the Specialized part with the round Shimano part for the downtube entry.
> 
> The gray tube pictured in the top right is for the exit hole for the rear derailleur.


Thanks for the confirmation on using the blank with hole in it + Shimano grommet for the E-tube to shifter wire.

In bold...yeah, putting myself in Specialized shoes, what I believe they did there was simply economize tooling to create that blank. That blank is identical to a standard ICR only with the core pin pulled in the die cast I believe to create an ICR with no hole in it. This way Specialized doesn't have to create a separate blank.
As to the similar shaped but flat blank with 6mm hole in it placed on the opposite side of the downtube to run the E-tube wire through, Specialized had little choice there. The backside of that little cover isn't conducive to putting a large enough hole in it to pass the E-tube connector through. You can do what Shane did and drill out a standard cable ICR but then it isn't as well sealed with a rubber grommet around it and hence why Specialized did what they did I believe.

Thanks for the further clarification regarding the rear derailleur grommet as well.
Cheers.


----------



## shanehill

roadworthy said:


> Hi Shane,
> Thanks for your excellent pics and contribution. Btw, I have that identical frame only in the Pro model which I believe is the same 10r carbon as your Expert. I run out of superlatives when it comes to this bike. Best road bike I have owned and I have owned 50 bikes.
> 
> As to your Di2 installation...a couple of comments.
> I wondered about using the standard ICR but figured the E-tube connector wouldn't thread through. Clever workaround. Only thing I see with your approach is the downtube wouldn't be as sealed as using the dedicated blank with hole in it + Shimano rubber grommet. But your approach is likely fine.
> 
> As to your battery installation which is the same location as CL prefers as well, I admit concern about the stress that cable guide plate screw would endure. Recognizing the battery isn't too heavy, but still a lot of stress on a single bolt due to that mass hanging off it when riding the bike fast over bumpy road surfaces. Only my opinion.
> 
> Thanks again.


You're welcome! Actually, mine is a bit of a Frankenstein. It's labeled an Elite, although it's also labeled as being 10r carbon, which elites didn't have. It has internal cable routing which only the Pro, Expert, and S-Works have. Plus it's got the Carbon OSBB which as far as I can tell only the S-Works had. Supposedly it was a color scheme test they did for the satin silver. But as you said, the best bike I've ever been on. 

As far as the sealing of the drilled out ICR..... I took care of that. I used a small o-ring that I stretched over the canbus cable end. It slides into the ICR bore and is locked in place with a touch of silicon. 

I figured that if Specialized was ok with the undermount battery, then I would be too. But every couple of rides I go over the bike and make sure everything is tight or to adjustment.


----------



## shanehill

carbonLORD said:


> I also pondered this idea as well as a switch, but you would have to write some custom Firmware and that is where I would need some direction. Once you update the Firmware to include the SM-BTR2 you cant go back to the SM-BTR1 unless you upload the old firmware. I have not seen anywhere that allows access to both, a patch if you will.
> 
> And I'm no spring chicken, as much as I like to act like it. People say I look 10 years younger then I am, but I'm, 39. Still, I continue to be in the best shape of my life <knock on="" wood....="" er,="" carbon="">.
> 
> Thanks for the warm comments on my rig.


This could get tricky on the 6770, 6870, and 9070 since they're can-bus based( something I have a little experience with) and not point based wiring like the old DA DI2. If I'm not mistaken, all of the control instruction for the DI2 system resides in the hardware inside the battery mount. On a CAN interface, physical switching of the CAN signal almost always results in issues. We learned that when testing CAN interfaces to automobile electronics for datalogging. We worked around that with a custom CAN based sw switch which would tell a device to go offline while telling another to go online, but that's getting really expensive. 

</knock>


----------



## roadworthy

shanehill said:


> You're welcome! Actually, mine is a bit of a Frankenstein. It's labeled an Elite, although it's also labeled as being 10r carbon, which elites didn't have. It has internal cable routing which only the Pro, Expert, and S-Works have. Plus it's got the Carbon OSBB which as far as I can tell only the S-Works had. Supposedly it was a color scheme test they did for the satin silver. But as you said, the best bike I've ever been on.
> 
> As far as the sealing of the drilled out ICR..... I took care of that. I used a small o-ring that I stretched over the canbus cable end. It slides into the ICR bore and is locked in place with a touch of silicon.
> 
> I figured that if Specialized was ok with the undermount battery, then I would be too. But every couple of rides I go over the bike and make sure everything is tight or to adjustment.


Great info. First your bike. Wow! Frankenstein-esque for sure. Never heard of such a combination. Awesome. Mine is similar but has an English threaded BB and slightly different charcoal/silver paint job.

Thanks for greater clarity on the ICR mod. O-ring inside the ICR is a great idea and with that at the end of the day, your approach maybe the most aesthetic all said.

As to the battery being held on with a single bolt. Will give you another strategy I have thought about. If you want greater security...apparently yours is holding fine...then drill out the threads of the threaded insert and run a slightly larger diameter machine screw all the way through the BB. Maybe even able to thread the existing bolt...same pitch thread and dia all the way through...but believe that hole is blind and a dead end. Place a nut inside the BB shell and you will be good. A BB30 crank spindle is 30mm in diameter and the interior of that shell is probably 45mm or so and shouldn't create any interference. Measure clearances before proceeding of course. If you are really wedded to keeping the battery where its at, you could also employ a T shaped theaded insert which would sit more flush to the ID of the BB shell and not be as obtrusive as a nut. All you would need is dab of epoxy to hold the T shaped insert in place and compression from tightening the bolt would do the rest. You wouldn't even have to check it if you used Loctite 242 on the threads. I really couldn't pull through unless the bolt failed and grade 8 bolt could take that tensile strength for many years. Another solution I thought of versus relying on the strength of that insert which to me is perhaps less than robust for the mass of a battery over time..
Thanks again Shane.


----------



## JohnnyD

Thanks for all the useful info. I'm trying to build up a Venge 2013 frameset with Ultegra Di2 and really struggling. Main problem right now is that the internal cable hole just behind the BB (going to rear derailleur) is too small for E-tube. What have others done to get around this? Do I really need to get the drill out?? Thanks!


----------



## thumper8888

JohnnyD said:


> Thanks for all the useful info. I'm trying to build up a Venge 2013 frameset with Ultegra Di2 and really struggling. Main problem right now is that the internal cable hole just behind the BB (going to rear derailleur) is too small for E-tube. What have others done to get around this? Do I really need to get the drill out?? Thanks!


The hole for rear der. cable is at the very end of the chain stay, nowhere near bottom bracket. for the love of god don't drill anything. I assume you're talking about the upward-facing one for the cable for the mechanical front der.


----------



## thumper8888

JohnnyD said:


> Thanks for all the useful info. I'm trying to build up a Venge 2013 frameset with Ultegra Di2 and really struggling. Main problem right now is that the internal cable hole just behind the BB (going to rear derailleur) is too small for E-tube. What have others done to get around this? Do I really need to get the drill out?? Thanks!


just looked at mine.... there are two holes near BB underneath...one is a drain, the other is for the cable for a mechanical rear. DO NOT USE EITHER. The etube stays internal, you route it internal from the junction box through the chain stay to exit at the very rear of chain stay. It DOES NOT come out that little slot under the BB and re-enter. It stays in. running it can be a little tricky if there isn't a guide tube.... you will need to use a thin wire and some tape, taping e-tube end-to-end to the wire after you have run wire all the way through, then pull will back through, dragging e-tube.
if you're clever, you may instead use a sturdy thread with a tiny weight taped to the end, though it tends to hang up on any irregularities inside the chain stay.... its kind of fun and aggravating at the same time.


----------



## roadworthy

JohnnyD said:


> Thanks for all the useful info. I'm trying to build up a Venge 2013 frameset with Ultegra Di2 and really struggling. Main problem right now is that the internal cable hole just behind the BB (going to rear derailleur) is too small for E-tube. What have others done to get around this? Do I really need to get the drill out?? Thanks!


Johnny,
Have a look at the pics below. You do know to remove the standard cable guide plate correct? I believe your issue maybe you are trying to get the chainstay E-tube out of the frame to connect 'behind' the BB centerline. No good because of small holes you mention. You want to route the E-tube over the BB and out the window in front of the BB which is a larger opening for connection.
Let me know if that clears it up for you.
HTH


----------



## shanehill

I actually said to hell with it and I ran mine through the open hole for the mechanical cable. It's then tie wrapped to my under BB battery mount before entering into the squarish hole to get to the internal junction. I wouldn't have done it this way if my I hadn't undermounted the battery. But it works aok and can be done in about 3 minutes rather than having to want to pull your hair out trying to get it around the OSBB and back through the chain stay. Especially if you have a Carbon OSBB.


----------



## roadworthy

shanehill said:


> This could get tricky on the 6770, 6870, and 9070 since they're can-bus based( something I have a little experience with) and not point based wiring like the old DA DI2. If I'm not mistaken, all of the control instruction for the DI2 system resides in the hardware inside the battery mount. On a CAN interface, physical switching of the CAN signal almost always results in issues. We learned that when testing CAN interfaces to automobile electronics for datalogging. We worked around that with a custom CAN based sw switch which would tell a device to go offline while telling another to go online, but that's getting really expensive.
> 
> </knock>


In bold, shane I could be wrong and perhaps CL and you are right about this, but it doesn't seem to comport with logic. Simple reality is...a battery can be removed from any Di2 system for either substitution with fresh battery or placed in a battery charger. This interruption of EMF is the same as flipping a switch, i.e. switching battery source with a simple toggle switch. It does not interfere with the CAN signal...or say it more plainly, CAN architecture is designed to remove the battery and replace it if necessary. There is no way the electronics can discern another replacement battery signal via a toggle switch versus the original battery. This is my take and haven't done it, but would bet a bit of money on it extrapolating from the system design, as the battery is designed to be replaced if necessary.
My thoughts.


----------



## goodboyr

I hesitate on re entering this conversation, but here goes. I think what he is saying is that you can't switch on the bus side. The battery is outside the bus. I dont think you can connect two batteries to the can bus simultaneously. ( and I'm not willing to try it in mine to find out). So for your idea to work, you would have a single battery mount ( which has the canbus chip in it) and two batteries switched to it.


----------



## shanehill

Exactly, goodboyr. At least with the external battery, the CAN control is in the battery mount itself. On the internal battery, I believe the CAN control is in the front junction. Which greatly complicates how you could switch between two batteries, especially since Shimano appears to be doing a proprietary 2 wire power over CAN. If they were doing a typical 3 wire CAN, where the power was carried out of band, it might be easier.


----------



## goodboyr

I think for the internal battery the chip is in the battery housing. I know this because I have updated the firmware on the seatpost battery only by plugging it directly into the pce interface. And on the etube software it shows up separately on the diagram of the bike.


----------



## shanehill

Gotcha, I haven't tried an internal yet. But the same issues apply. You'd have to have some way to isolate the backup battery AND controller from the bus, or to switch on the backside of the battery controller itself(as you said).


----------



## roadworthy

shanehill said:


> Exactly, goodboyr. At least with the external battery, the CAN control is in the battery mount itself. On the internal battery, I believe the CAN control is in the front junction. Which greatly complicates how you could switch between two batteries, especially since Shimano appears to be doing a proprietary 2 wire power over CAN. If they were doing a typical 3 wire CAN, where the power was carried out of band, it might be easier.


Sorry, you guys are wrong about it. A simple hack to run dual batteries on the same bike at the same time power being separated by a switch. The CAN never experiences any involvement as the 2 lead hack occurs outside the CAN. Hacking Di2 will become more prevalent over time by EE's who like to play with this stuff.
Here is such a hack. Check out the non Shimano specific battery. Piece of cake to terminate it to interface the E-tube outside the CAN. There would be NO parallel current. Battery voltages would be mutually exlcusive. For you guys that think this can't be done, take some EE classes. 

Ultegra Di2 TT Hack | NY Velocity - New York bike racing culture, news and events

PS: I may in fact follow the lead of the posted link and build my own harness without E-tubes. I have a background in electronics and all you need are the CAN chips...not the wiring or junction boxes as the article points out. Will likely go with the battery below...pennies on the dollar.


----------



## shanehill

roadworthy said:


> Sorry, you guys are wrong about it. A simple hack to run dual batteries on the same bike at the same time power being separated by a switch. The CAN never experiences any involvement as the 2 lead hack occurs outside the CAN. Hacking Di2 will become more prevalent over time by EE's who like to play with this stuff.
> Here is such a hack. Check out the non Shimano specific battery. Piece of cake to terminate it to interface the E-tube outside the CAN. There would be NO parallel current. Battery voltages would be mutually exlcusive. For you guys that think this can't be done, take some EE classes.
> 
> Ultegra Di2 TT Hack | NY Velocity - New York bike racing culture, news and events


Actually, that doesn't prove we're wrong. It proves that what we both said about having to do two batteries on the back side of the bus would be the only easy way. David Blume's TT battery setup you referenced is on the backside of the bus, also. For what it's worth, I'm an EE.


----------



## roadworthy

shanehill said:


> Actually, that doesn't prove we're wrong. *It proves that what we both said about having to do two batteries on the back side of the bus* would be the only easy way. David Blume's TT battery setup you referenced is on the backside of the bus, also. For what it's worth, I'm an EE.


Can't believe you have continued to miss the point. Of course you want to do it on the back side of the bus. Why complicate it? Point is, it can be done and is simple.


----------



## goodboyr

Yup. And I'm a nuclear engineer. But neither or us are as arrogant as you, Roadworthy.


----------



## shanehill

No, I'm not missing it at all. The simple way is exactly what David Blume did in that article you referenced the link to. Which is backside/outside of the CANbus network. Where it's simple positive and negative voltage from the battery to the battery controller/CAN interface. The front side of the bus is on the CAN network between the individual end points and the junctions, where you've got power multiplexed inband over the CAN signal.


----------



## roadworthy

shanehill said:


> No, I'm not missing it at all. The simple way is exactly what David Blume did in that article you referenced the link to. Which is the backside of the bus. Where it's simple positive and negative voltage from the battery to the battery controller/CAN interface. The front side of the bus is on the CAN network between the individual end points and the junctions, where you've got power multiplexed inband over the CAN signal.


Thanks Mr. Obvious.  Hey, you want me to draw a rudimentary schematic for our cognitively challenged friend badboyr?


----------



## goodboyr

Lol. I knew I'd regret re entering this thread. I'm still willing to bet it will be years or never before you actually install di2 on your bike. My guess is that there are other psychological factors at play here.


----------



## roadworthy

shanehill said:


> Gotcha, I haven't tried an internal yet. But the same issues apply. You'd have to have some way to isolate the backup battery AND controller from the bus, *or to switch on the backside of the battery controller itself*(as you said).


You said it again. Shane, you as a EE don't need a schematic do you?


----------



## roadworthy

goodboyr said:


> Lol. I knew I'd regret re entering this thread. I'm still willing to bet it will be years or never before you actually install di2 on your bike. My guess is that there are other psychological factors at play here.


Tell you what I would like to do. Where do you live? I would like to make a friendly wager with you. You want to play? The wager will be DA Di2. I hook it up with 2 batteries on my bike with a single switch. Think it can't be done? We need to find a neutral party and hold the money. Loser pays for the Di2 and winner gets the hardware. How bout it?


----------



## goodboyr

The shimano can bus is not a standard can bus. Its two wire with power multiplexed. So far no one has been able to interface to that. But go ahead and give it a try with your own chips and incredible skills. Report back please.


----------



## roadworthy

goodboyr said:


> The shimano can bus is not a standard can bus. Its two wire with power multiplexed. So far no one has been able to interface to that. But go ahead and give it a try with your own chips and incredible skills. Report back please.


Are you really this dense? Shane, help him out please.
The bus can not differentiate from any 2 lead battery source provided they are completely separated and switched. Multiplexing is independent of the battery source.
I wanna gamble and I want to do it on your money.


----------



## goodboyr

You made a statement several posts back that you were going to make your own cable harness with your own canbus chips.


----------



## roadworthy

goodboyr said:


> You made a statement several posts back that you were going to make your own cable harness with your own canbus chips.


No, I would never try to replicate or replace the canbus chips. That would take a dedicated R&D effort even though I have design experience with CAN.
To restate for the 10th time, an alternative battery source would be on the backside of and outside the CAN architecture. Doing what was posted in the link is nothing more than basic wiring utilizing Shimano's chips...including the non specific Shimano battery. A good effort for sure but not even close to complicated.


----------



## goodboyr

In any case, do the install, post pictures, and a nice shiny Canadian Toonie is yours!


----------



## roadworthy

goodboyr said:


> In any case, do the install, post pictures, and a nice shiny Canadian Toonie is yours!


Its becoming more clear what the issue is now.


----------



## goodboyr

The way the exchange rate is going, the longer you take, the cheaper it gets for me.


----------



## roadworthy

goodboyr said:


> The way the exchange rate is going, the longer you take, the cheaper it gets for me.


I am not as concerned about the exchange as I would being paid for the bet. Bike shop guys like you can afford to build Di2 for others, but not for yourself and besides, I wouldn't want to take your rent money...lol.


----------



## JohnnyD

Thanks for the advice!


----------



## roadworthy

JohnnyD said:


> Thanks for the advice!


Let us know how you route the E-tube over the BB....sting + vacuum maybe a good approach. Block holes to direct suction and gravity is your friend to get the string through. Good luck


----------



## JohnnyD

Will do. I'll be honest, the last hour trying to do this hasn't been fun. Tomorrow's cunning plan is to buy a bath-plug, tie a piece of the chain to some string and hope gravity will do the rest.


----------



## goodboyr

Magnets work too. Tape a magnet to end of cable. Use another magnet or brake cable to move cable through.


----------



## carbonLORD

FWIW, I have no idea why the OP used a nylon washer or filed any bolts. My BB Battery was plug and play, uses 2 bolts, is secure and required no nylon washers nor any filing or modification and here in Amsterdam 25% of my rides are on cobbles and its never come loose. Battery slides on and off with ease.


----------



## carbonLORD

roadworthy said:


> We need to find a neutral party and hold the money.


*I'll hold the money!* :devil:


----------



## shanehill

carbonLORD said:


> FWIW, I have no idea why the OP used a nylon washer or filed any bolts. My BB Battery was plug and play, uses 2 bolts, is secure and required no nylon washers nor any filing or modification and here in Amsterdam 25% of my rides are on cobbles and its never come loose. Battery slides on and off with ease.


Because I used the stock short battery mount and not the one made for mounting it under the bottom bracket. It was going to take 5-7 days for the specialized specific part to arrive and I wanted to ride.


----------



## carbonLORD

shanehill said:


> Because I used the stock short battery mount and not the one made for mounting it under the bottom bracket. It was going to take 5-7 days for the specialized specific part to arrive and I wanted to ride.


Gotcha. Thanks for the clarification. I thought perhaps it might not be simple plug and play for the Roubaix as it is on the Venge.


----------



## goodboyr

The only bet is for roadworthy to fully install di2 on his bike. As for how many backup batteries he needs.........who cares?


----------



## roadworthy

carbonLORD said:


> *I'll hold the money!* :devil:


I would trust you in fact carbonLord. You are the right man to hold the cash.
So let's call out goodboyr for the bet because he has been misguided throughout this thread and needlessly lowered decorum here.

DA Di2. Btw, goodboyr...not just Di2 hardware, but DA 11s wheelset, cassette and DA crank. Everything. About $3500 USD. To be fair, we each send carbonLord the money...same amount. He buys the parts and ships them to me. We will each give carbonLord a donation for his involvement. When I receive the parts...which will be without any Shimano battery, I will install qty=2 lithium Ion batteries referred in this thread and interface to Di2 with a toggle switch. Both batteries will be chargeable through the front receptacle when switched. I will mount my bike with DA Di2 to my Park stand and create a video of the install demonstrating functionality here for both internal batteries. Upon demonstration of functionality, carbonLord will send your $3500 to me as winner of the bet. If I can't get it to work, I send all parts to you.
Yes, there is some good faith in this bet, but I am up for it. How about you goodboyr? You want to put your money where your mouth is? You don't think I can install DA on my Roubaix with two internal batteries? I always wanted a free DA Di2 with dual batteries.


----------



## Merc

I've just priced out what it would cost to change my components from sram red to Di2 11 spd on my Tarmac SW SL4 through my lbs. They quoted me $3,400 including the install and an internal battery mounted in the seat post. Does this sound fair?


----------



## shanehill

Merc said:


> I've just priced out what it would cost to change my components from sram red to Di2 11 spd on my Tarmac SW SL4 through my lbs. They quoted me $3,400 including the install and an internal battery mounted in the seat post. Does this sound fair?


@Merc One of my local Specialized dealers wanted $2450 for Ultegra 6870 DI2 installed with the internal battery. FWIW.... I sourced all the 10spd 6770 pieces(although with external battery) individually for $625 off of ebay, installed myself in 3 hours, and paid a LBS $30 for flashing the firmware and setting the multi shift up. After I sold my old DA derailleurs, shifters, cables, etc for $355, I have less than $300 bucks in my DI2.


----------



## goodboyr

I'm not betting with you on how many batteries you can put on your bike, and since I already have DA Di2 on both of my bikes, it doesn't matter. In fact you've missed my point. You started this thread by saying you wanted to install di2, some very useful info was shared. Now its time for you to install. Thats all. I dont care if you put a 12v lead acid car battery in your seat bag. Just follow through. Or......and this is my hypothesis, you just like being a "guru" without any actual experience.


----------



## roadworthy

Merc said:


> I've just priced out what it would cost to change my components from sram red to Di2 11 spd on my Tarmac SW SL4 through my lbs. They quoted me $3,400 including the install and an internal battery mounted in the seat post. Does this sound fair?


If you have your local bike shop do it, its probably going to cost you close to retail. You could likely save almost a grand by buying components piece meal...substituting the battery I posted in the seat tube etc. Ebay your Red stuff. Also depends Merc on your rear wheel. I you don't have Red 22 then you likely have a wheelset for 10s only...but maybe not. You may have the latest Shimano 11s hub with spacer...so look into that. 

Purpose of the this thread is to divulge all the options that DIY'ers have discovered by building Di2 bikes. The irony is...the simplest thing or what one would intuitively think is simple like grommets, is the most complex. The rest is pretty cook book and arguably as simple as building any cable bike. Your cost will depend also on battery location. I am a fan of the Di2 remote handlebar switch on the tops for example...another 100 bux or so for the box..though I bet you could make a hacked momentary switch box for a fraction of that. That is a nice feature of Di2 IMO. I personally want the battery in the seat tube and not external.
Cheers.


----------



## carbonLORD

Sounds like a bet.


----------



## goodboyr

Can't wait to see pics.


----------



## roadworthy

carbonLORD said:


> Sounds like a bet.


Only if he wants to participate. My guess is he won't.
He talks smack but won't back it up.
Thanks for the offer btw.


----------



## roadworthy

goodboyr said:


> I'm not betting with you on how many batteries you can put on your bike, and since I already have DA Di2 on both of my bikes, it doesn't matter. In fact you've missed my point. You started this thread by saying you wanted to install di2, some very useful info was shared. Now its time for you to install. Thats all. I dont care if you put a 12v lead acid car battery in your seat bag. Just follow through. Or......and this is my hypothesis, you just like being a "guru" without any actual experience.


I am far from a guru on Di2. Sorry to be arrogant but I have my pockets of expertise in mechanical and electrical engineering. I wouldn't have created the thread based on any premise that I know much about Di2. The converse is true. You are ridiculously misguided and have been wrong about everything you have posted including this assertion. I created this thread to *ask *for guidance from those that have installed Di2. I can't help it with one exception that you have contributed nothing but BS. Other posters haven't done that. There has been a good exchange of ideas in fact. All the crap you have dispensed is only a distraction to an otherwise great exchange of information. A bit about me. I have worked in product development my whole life. I am the guy who creates products like Di2. I have created similar in fact in the auto industry. Cars have CANbuss and servos throughout. You are the guy who puts parts together based upon the stuff I create. I have had teams of techs work for me that build what I design. So all your blather is just that. You really don't know what you talking about. You could build 50 Di2 bikes and not have the collective wisdom of this forum for example. Each member brings his experience and different way of looking at. That is how new designs are spawned btw...competitive analysis and benchmarking. You don't live in that world, but I do. So of course you miss the whole point of this thread...which has been largely focused on grommets which btw are perhaps the biggest unknown and a subject you have contributed NOTHING. There is nothing complex about the hardware or wiring...its basic from an installation standpoint.
Please do the community here a service and stay out of this thread. Or, start your own on a related subject if you want and I will do the same for you.

Or put your money where your mouth is and take my bet.


----------



## goodboyr

roadworthy said:


> I am far from a guru on Di2. Sorry to be arrogant but I have my pockets of expertise in mechanical and electrical engineering. I wouldn't have created the thread based on any premise that I know much about Di2. The converse is true. You are ridiculously misguided and have been wrong about everything you have posted including this assertion. I created this thread to *ask *for guidance from those that have installed Di2. I can't help it with one exception that you have contributed nothing but BS. Other posters haven't done that. There has been a good exchange of ideas in fact. All the crap you have dispensed is only a distraction to an otherwise great exchange of information. A bit about me. I have worked in product development my whole life. I am the guy who creates products like Di2. I have created similar in fact in the auto industry. Cars have CANbuss and servos throughout. You are the guy who puts parts together based upon the stuff I create. I have had teams of techs work for me that build what I design. So all your blather is just that. You really don't know what you talking about. You could build 50 Di2 bikes and not have the collective wisdom of this forum for example. Each member brings his experience and different way of looking at. That is how new designs are spawned btw...competitive analysis and benchmarking. You don't live in that world, but I do. So of course you miss the whole point of this thread...which has been largely focused on grommets which btw are perhaps the biggest unknown and a subject you have contributed NOTHING. There is nothing complex about the hardware or wiring...its basic from an installation standpoint.
> Please do the community here a service and stay out of this thread. Or, start your own on a related subject if you want and I will do the same for you.
> 
> Or put your money where your mouth is and take my bet.


Lol. I will post to this thread in about 6 months to bump it and learn how your install went. Good luck and safe riding.


----------



## roadworthy

Guys,
To get the thread back on track, here is an excellent post some may remember. Lots of great hacking of Di2 harnesses now because its been out for a while and for those meticulous types, the only way to go really. Nice to build something custom with no appearance of wires if possible.

Great discussion in this thread:
http://forums.roadbikereview.com/co...stom-build-no-wires-240448-4.html#post3210718

I think I will end up with a hacked harness...perhaps something similar. There are many hacking these now....much better batteries on the market and much cheaper etc....ebay sellers of custom harnesses etc. So am resisting buying an off the shelf harness until I talk a bit more with some of the guys that have hacked Di2 to glean what they have learned along the way.

And here is discussion that started out benignly addressing how to hack a 7.4V RC battery into Ultegra Di2 and then was rudely interrupted by EE's trying to figure out the digital protocol.  Some good comments for those electronics buffs out there if interested. Not even clear if the architecture is pure CANbus. No doubt this will be determined over time by pro's that have to know.

In any event, a std. Ultegra battery receptacle can be hacked and interfaced with a basic low cost RC battery for superior battery life. I have to do it this way. Can't see buying the $170 Shimano seat post battery which isn't as good.
Discussion:
fairwheelbikes.com ? View topic - Tuning Ultegra Di2


----------



## smokie496

Seems as if these conversion kits are hard to get. I just ran across mine from my Tarmac SW SL4. Just in-case anyone is looking and cannot find, I will ship them out.


----------



## roadworthy

smokie496 said:


> Seems as if these conversion kits are hard to get. I just ran across mine from my Tarmac SW SL4. Just in-case anyone is looking and cannot find, I will ship them out.


What conversion kit are you speaking of? What do you mean ship them out? Are you a Shimano supplier?


----------



## smokie496

The grommet pack that was referred to at the beginning of the post to convert from mechanical to Di2. Dealer, no. Being nice and giving my given pack for free, yes. However I dropped them in the mail this morning for someone who was looking for them.


----------



## roadworthy

smokie496 said:


> The grommet pack that was referred to at the beginning of the post to convert from mechanical to Di2. Dealer, no. Being nice and giving my given pack for free, yes. However I dropped them in the mail this morning for someone who was looking for them.


I see. Nice gesture paying it forward.


----------



## JohnnyD

Several hours of cursing and hair-pulling later.....

I managed to route the di2 cable through the chainstay, over the BB and out underneath it using the chain from a bath plug connected to a a brake cable (undo some of the thread and weave it all together again). Oh, and one of my wife's crochet hooks was a great help too.

Good luck to anyone else trying this!


----------



## dkilburn

I don't understand why you need to change out the battery at this point in production. Maybe in years to come as products / parts change.
Maybe Shimano will keep changing - updating things the product evolves.


----------



## roadworthy

JohnnyD said:


> Several hours of cursing and hair-pulling later.....
> 
> I managed to route the di2 cable through the chainstay, over the BB and out underneath it using the chain from a bath plug connected to a a brake cable (undo some of the thread and weave it all together again). Oh, and one of my wife's crochet hooks was a great help too.
> 
> Good luck to anyone else trying this!


Well done Johnny and congrats. Clever technique using a very thin chain. When you mentioned it the other day, I was thinking that maybe a long key ring or light socket chain would work well because it is small diameter. Where did you get a long narrow chain...home depot in the plumbing department or something?
If the frame isn't built, it is easily rotated about the seat post on a bike stand and then you could get the chain to wrap to the forward part of the BB by angling the chainstay vertical or just off vertical to get the chain to bias toward the top of the BB as you give it more slack through the back of the chainstay. That is what I was thinking maybe the best technique. Also if the chain is steel and magnetic, you could put a small magnet attached to coat hanger wire through the bottom window forward of the BB and intercept the chain being dropped through as described above.
Let us know how your build goes and thanks for sharing your chain tip.

*Chain technique Frame Angle:
*
I believe if you put a seat post in the frame, mount it to the stand and rotate the frame, below is a good angle for the chain to fall just in front of the BB. I would say about 10 degrees CW of vertical or so would be a pretty good angle to drop the chain through. After the chain is forward of the BB cylinder, then rotate the frame CCW back to normal build position and let the chain fall to the front of the BB and from there, should be able to fish it out of the window under the BB, maybe helped with a small magnetic. Could even do it with a lightly weighted string on one end and suction from a hand vacuum I believe.


----------



## panda_oz

Hi everyone, long time lurker. I thought I might chime in with my experience doing a Di2 install on a Specialized Roubaix sl3 pro
I have been reading this thread with great interest especially as my wife has been having trouble with her Roubaix and difficulties shifting. Needless to say, the shifting of DA7900 group that came with her bike has never been perfect. Following roadworthy’s informative posts, I tried re-cabling multiple times, cali-cross, hanger realignment, and while I improved the shifting, it would always require a re-tune after a few rides and has a tiny sweet-spot (maybe 1/8th turn of the RD adjuster). She has also found the ergonomics poor, suffering with the long shifter-throw and the relatively high force required shifting the FD. So with all the issues and her rapidly deteriorating interest in riding, I decided that Di2 would be the way forward for her. To that end, I purchased 6870 shifters and FD, 6770 RD, 3-port junction A, internal junction B, seatpost battery and all cabling. I wanted to keep her on 10sp so went for the 6770 RD to achieve this.
I can report that the system has gone together well and is fully functional. I do however have a few things I can contribute to this thread.

The internal junction B did not fit in the down tube hole near the bottom bracket. This may have been due to the fact that the frame I was working with was small (49 cm) (the holes may be bigger in larger frame sizes). This presented a bit of a dilemma as I did not want to modify the frame in any way. Luckily I had ordered the longest Di2 cable set and I decided that I could instead route all of the cables into the seat tube and place junction B at the bottom of the seat tube. As you could imagine, this required some rather tricky cable routing. Here, monofilament fishing line worked well, in combination with a vacuum cleaner. We managed to thread the fishing line through the chainstay (for the RD) and up through the seat tube (behind the BB), in addition to another line from the bottom of the seat tube (for the FD) to the top of the seat tube. The vacuum cleaner managed to suck the line straight through. The line from the head tube to the seat tube was a bit trickier, as the vacuum did not have enough suction to pull the line all the way. We managed to get it threaded with the use of a fishing swivel acting as a weight and just by manipulating the frame in order for the line to emerge out the seat tube. 
With this covered, we then tied each Di2 cable (going to each respective part of the frame) to the ends of the fishing line emerging from the seat tube. I then plugged each cable into junction B and we started the process of simultaneously threading the RD cable and front cable through the frame. We had to remove all of the wire ties from the cable going to the RD as they would have significantly hindered the ability to get the cable around the tight turns. With a lot of luck, we managed to get all of the cables routed internally.
We fitted the seatpost battery into the seatpost with a few layers of foam and then carefully dropped the seatpost into place. Everything else went together as a normal Di2 install.
In terms of maintaining a neat appearance, I have temporarily taped over the hole near the head tube, obviously the cable guide had to be removed to accommodate the Di2 cable. I have enquired with my local Specialized dealer regarding the Di2 guide set for the Sl3 and venge but it looks like it will take a while to get in as Specialized OZ doesn’t have any. In the mean time, I have settled for electrical tape. Regarding the exit port next to the RD, I have inserted a small piece of foam to fill up the hole and used a sharpie to colour it and match the frame, here I am content. I will also grab a Di2 grommet from my LBS to cover the hole next to the FD (am also using electrical tape here in the mean time).

For the weight weenies, the conversion to Ultegra Di2 from DA 7900 has meant an increase in weight of 130 g. For the price of reliable, consistent shifting and improved ergonomics, it is a small penalty.


----------



## dhbic

If you don't mind me asking, what was the cost of all your parts . Where did you get them ?


----------



## roadworthy

A well written contribution to this thread panda. Much appreciated. With each installation, it seems more options are divulged and thank you for sharing your techiques. Mounting the B junction box inside the seat tube is quite clever.
Also, quite right DA 7900 was noted to be problematic on the SL3 and other bikes because of its high internal cable friction and lower rear derailleur spring rate.

A word about DA 7900 as I have owned it as well. It is pretty awful on many levels and you were quite right to move on. I have written a bit about this and the reviews speak for themselves...poor ergonomics, lack of distinct shift detents, vague and lazy shifting....Shimano's first foray into under handlebar tape routing. This was all coming from DA 7800 which many including me believe to be one of the best groupsets ever created.

I will further share what my next move is as I haven't contributed to this thread in a while. Lately, I have been riding a lot of different bikes as I have been planning to build another bike as a stablemate for my Roubaix. My intent is to build a bike with a slightly more aggressive riding position versus tweaking my Roubaix for different styles of riding. Since I am picky, I want to build the bike from scratch and how I like it. Since I was leaning heavily toward Di2 at the time, I wanted to create a thread like this which would share a lot of detail about best practices for installing Di2 by guys who didn't just purchase a complete Di2 bike and I believe this thread has accomplished just that. 

So what have I learned testing many bikes in the recent month or so? I have learned that I prefer DA 9000. I have ridden Ultegra and DA Di2 and spent a bit of time on new Red which has improved a lot over the last couple of years as well. I am highly driven by hood ergonomics and I really like both Di2 and DA 9000 which share a very similar hood shape. I can also live with the new Sram Red with revised hood shape and I like double tap as well which has gotten a lot better. All new groupset hoods have now been taken in the direction of Campy Ultrashift which I have ridden for years because hood ergos in my opinion have been the best in the industry. I believe new Shimano hoods give Campy a run for the money without the encumbrance of a button on the side.. My local bike shop are big Red guys...they love it there...very low weight and what most of the better riders from that shop are on.

What I learned comparing DA 9000 and Di2 is...I prefer the tactile feedback of a mechanical groupset. I like to feel the shifts versus a button and servo. That said, in my time testing it, I find DA 9000 to be pretty amazing. Front shifting is off the chain good and low effort. Throws are so much shorter on new DA. So I agree about all the gushing about 9000 and that is the direction I am taking my new build. At some point, I may build a Di2 bike because I find it to be great as well. I just took a serious fancy to 9000. So I have started to gather some parts. No frame yet. Am leaning toward building a Sworks Tarmac SL4 as my next bike...so am looking around for a frameset.

A quick word about DA 9000 for those interested. Shimano had some cable breakage on early shifters. This is well documented on Weight Weenies forum. When Shimano released 6800, they made a number of subtle design changes. A short while ago, Shimano revised DA 9000 and released the DA 9001 model. That is what I just received. The lever is slightly different...slight hood difference....less exposed shifter mechanism and revised cable routing to improve cable life internal to the shifter. So for those contemplating DA 9000, get the 9001 levers if you can.

Thanks again Panda for your contribution to this informative thread.





panda_oz said:


> Hi everyone, long time lurker. I thought I might chime in with my experience doing a Di2 install on a Specialized Roubaix sl3 pro
> I have been reading this thread with great interest especially as my wife has been having trouble with her Roubaix and difficulties shifting. Needless to say, the shifting of DA7900 group that came with her bike has never been perfect. Following roadworthy’s informative posts, I tried re-cabling multiple times, cali-cross, hanger realignment, and while I improved the shifting, it would always require a re-tune after a few rides and has a tiny sweet-spot (maybe 1/8th turn of the RD adjuster). She has also found the ergonomics poor, suffering with the long shifter-throw and the relatively high force required shifting the FD. So with all the issues and her rapidly deteriorating interest in riding, I decided that Di2 would be the way forward for her. To that end, I purchased 6870 shifters and FD, 6770 RD, 3-port junction A, internal junction B, seatpost battery and all cabling. I wanted to keep her on 10sp so went for the 6770 RD to achieve this.
> I can report that the system has gone together well and is fully functional. I do however have a few things I can contribute to this thread.
> 
> The internal junction B did not fit in the down tube hole near the bottom bracket. This may have been due to the fact that the frame I was working with was small (49 cm) (the holes may be bigger in larger frame sizes). This presented a bit of a dilemma as I did not want to modify the frame in any way. Luckily I had ordered the longest Di2 cable set and I decided that I could instead route all of the cables into the seat tube and place junction B at the bottom of the seat tube. As you could imagine, this required some rather tricky cable routing. Here, monofilament fishing line worked well, in combination with a vacuum cleaner. We managed to thread the fishing line through the chainstay (for the RD) and up through the seat tube (behind the BB), in addition to another line from the bottom of the seat tube (for the FD) to the top of the seat tube. The vacuum cleaner managed to suck the line straight through. The line from the head tube to the seat tube was a bit trickier, as the vacuum did not have enough suction to pull the line all the way. We managed to get it threaded with the use of a fishing swivel acting as a weight and just by manipulating the frame in order for the line to emerge out the seat tube.
> With this covered, we then tied each Di2 cable (going to each respective part of the frame) to the ends of the fishing line emerging from the seat tube. I then plugged each cable into junction B and we started the process of simultaneously threading the RD cable and front cable through the frame. We had to remove all of the wire ties from the cable going to the RD as they would have significantly hindered the ability to get the cable around the tight turns. With a lot of luck, we managed to get all of the cables routed internally.
> We fitted the seatpost battery into the seatpost with a few layers of foam and then carefully dropped the seatpost into place. Everything else went together as a normal Di2 install.
> In terms of maintaining a neat appearance, I have temporarily taped over the hole near the head tube, obviously the cable guide had to be removed to accommodate the Di2 cable. I have enquired with my local Specialized dealer regarding the Di2 guide set for the Sl3 and venge but it looks like it will take a while to get in as Specialized OZ doesn’t have any. In the mean time, I have settled for electrical tape. Regarding the exit port next to the RD, I have inserted a small piece of foam to fill up the hole and used a sharpie to colour it and match the frame, here I am content. I will also grab a Di2 grommet from my LBS to cover the hole next to the FD (am also using electrical tape here in the mean time).
> 
> For the weight weenies, the conversion to Ultegra Di2 from DA 7900 has meant an increase in weight of 130 g. For the price of reliable, consistent shifting and improved ergonomics, it is a small penalty.


----------



## panda_oz

I purchased all my Di2 parts through a local shop in Sydney (BikeBug), spent a bit over AU$1k. Many online retailers such as chain reaction, PBK, ribble etc frequently have the parts on sale.

I absolutely agree with your notions roadworthy, DA7900 has been the most finicky groupset to tune, this coming from my experience with pretty much all of shimanos groups including tiagra, 105, ultegra and dura ace. I can also quickly comment on DA9000 and say that it is the best mechanical group that I have used. I recently upgraded my bike from Ultegra 6700 to DA 9000. This upgrade came after test riding an S-Works sl4 tarmac with 9000. On the test ride I simply couldn’t believe the quality and performance of the shifting, both at the FD and RD, and the ergonomics are excellent- simply had to have the shifting. The tactile response of the 9000 shifting is great, I too like a bit of feedback when shifting, and by comparison 7900, 6700 and 5700 seem archaic. Interestingly enough I also test road a Cervelo R5 with Sram Red. While it took a while to get used to the shifting action, the level of mechanical feedback in comparison to DA 9000 made it seem unrefined (to my hands). In comparing DA 9000 to Ultegra Di2, I think the Di2 hoods are slightly smaller, making them better for smaller hands. I would personally take 9000, but Ultegra Di2 also makes a very convincing argument, and with the integrated seat post battery, such a nice clean installation with only a single, small wire leading into the head tube.


----------



## roadworthy

panda_oz said:


> I purchased all my Di2 parts through a local shop in Sydney (BikeBug), spent a bit over AU$1k. Many online retailers such as chain reaction, PBK, ribble etc frequently have the parts on sale.
> 
> I absolutely agree with your notions roadworthy, DA7900 has been the most finicky groupset to tune, this coming from my experience with pretty much all of shimanos groups including tiagra, 105, ultegra and dura ace. I can also quickly comment on DA9000 and say that it is the best mechanical group that I have used. I recently upgraded my bike from Ultegra 6700 to DA 9000. This upgrade came after test riding an S-Works sl4 tarmac with 9000. On the test ride I simply couldn’t believe the quality and performance of the shifting, both at the FD and RD, and the ergonomics are excellent- simply had to have the shifting. The tactile response of the 9000 shifting is great, I too like a bit of feedback when shifting, and by comparison 7900, 6700 and 5700 seem archaic. Interestingly enough I also test road a Cervelo R5 with Sram Red. While it took a while to get used to the shifting action, the level of mechanical feedback in comparison to DA 9000 made it seem unrefined (to my hands). In comparing DA 9000 to Ultegra Di2, I think the Di2 hoods are slightly smaller, making them better for smaller hands. I would personally take 9000, but Ultegra Di2 also makes a very convincing argument, and with the integrated seat post battery, such a nice clean installation with only a single, small wire leading into the head tube.


You said it perfectly panda. We are kindred spirits.
If you think about, the sharing of ideas around the world...this forum and internet is such a great asset...to compare ideas and learn from one another relative to a hobby we both like.
Thanks again and ride safe.


----------



## dkilburn

Thanks, 
Waiting for a good day to ride.
The bike is nearly complete, but ready to rode ride. 
Now if the weather would change over into spring in Upstate New York.......


----------



## roadworthy

dkilburn said:


> Thanks,
> Waiting for a good day to ride.
> The bike is nearly complete, but ready to rode ride.
> Now if the weather would change over into spring in Upstate New York.......
> View attachment 293275


A beauty...tho IMHO, it deserves a DA crank 
I feel ya on the weather front. Why I moved south in Dec and picked a good winter to do it...epic and biblical come to mind to describe this winter in the US. Beautiful in Florida however. 
No doubt you can't wait to give it a whirl. Sweet bike.


----------



## dkilburn

Hi,
2014 S Works Roubaix , Ultregra Di2, 11 speed, ENVE 3.4. 
This is a replacement bike after the other was hit by auto, trashed on 9/17/2014.

.


----------



## dhbic

panda_oz said:


> I purchased all my Di2 parts through a local shop in Sydney (BikeBug), spent a bit over AU$1k. Many online retailers such as chain reaction, PBK, ribble etc frequently have the parts on sale.


Thanks Panda, starting to get the itch to upgrade by Roubaix SL4 Expert to Di2. Hard to justify as I the Ultegra was such a big leap after my '06 Roubaix Comp (105). 
Still I imagine the itch will grow.....


----------



## dkilburn

Make the itch go away.
Jump to the Di2 and you will like it.......
OR Just start with a whole new ride with Di2


----------



## rssetiawan

Hi all,

Thanks for the great information provided by many members in this forum. As a long-time lurker, I have found the information graciously provided here to be extremely valuable. My friend and I managed to convert my 2012 S-Works Roubaix SL3 to 9070 last weekend by following the information provided here.

However, like 'panda_oz', we also have one little problem. The internal junction box B (SM-JC41) doesn't fit into the hole underneath the BB on my SW Roubaix SL3. 

The Specialized documentations http://service.specialized.com/collateral/ownersguide/new/assets/pdf/Shifters---Shimano-Di2-Internal-Routing-Instruction-Guide.pdf shows that it should slide-in nicely into the frame, but it doesn't on my SL3. My only guess was the information that the tech-doc provided was about the 7970 junction box.

Unlike 'panda_oz', I don't have the privilege of having a longer E-Tube cables to be able to reroute the cables and place the SM-JC41 into my seat tube. Mine are all 'preset' to their certain lengths, as I bought this group -set second hand (was installed on a Medium Giant frame). Plus, having spent 3+ hours last weekend to cabling them, I am not really keen on redoing the whole cabling. 

So, my 'only' option for now is to file the edges of the junction box B (SM-JC41), as it was just slightly too big. However, before I do that, can anyone share what you did, or share ideas of the best way to do it? Is it 'safe' to file the casing of the SM-JC41?

Below are the photos to explain what I am talking about.

















Thanks ever so much in anticipation of your kind help.


----------



## panda_oz

I think you may be better off purchasing an external junction JC40. When I was doing the Di2 install I also contemplated filing down the internal junction, but decided against it as I would have had to remove quite a significant amount of material in order to squeeze it into the down tube hole. I would probably have compromised the junction. Given that you have all the cables running nicely out of the down tube, the external junction should still offer a nice neat install.


----------



## goodboyr

If you are OK with a soldering iron and heat shrink you can remove the connectors and solder to connections. Then use double walled glue lined heat shrink to seal and water proof the connection. E tube wiring is only two conductor.


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## roadworthy

Will just give you my vote as this is highly subjective. Panda came forward with a very creative yet somewhat arduous method of dropping the B junction down the seat tube which requires the longest E-tube harness to implement which results in a lot of extra wire in the seat tube which is no big deal. As clever as that is...and it is very clever, I don't think I would do it personally.

Nor would I opt for an external junction box either....I just don't like that solution with or without an external battery though to me I much prefer an internal battery.

My favorite method is proposed by goodboyr. That's right and we have had our differences.  But this depends on you rsset...can you solder? I have done a lot of custom wiring and honestly, this is a simple solder job. All connections are in parallel...because the architecture is digital and works through Shimano's proprietary buss. 2 leads for each little cable all soldered together. Pull all cables through and outside the bottom bracket window, snip, strip, solder and heatshrink and you good to go. 

Lastly, this begs the issue of the battery and many that hack the new E-tube Di2 will use a RC battery and kluge up their own CANbuss chip from an external battery receptacle. This is a bit more work and now gets more complicated...but with some perseverance, many have done this now. In fact, there are sellers of custom harnesses on E-bay who do this every day....that is how they get the chip for the battery. 

Which comes full circle to the purpose of this thread. A menu of different options has emerged such that those considering Di2 on their Specialized bikes can pick their best path.



rssetiawan said:


> Hi all,
> 
> Thanks for the great information provided by many members in this forum. As a long-time lurker, I have found the information graciously provided here to be extremely valuable. My friend and I managed to convert my 2012 S-Works Roubaix SL3 to 9070 last weekend by following the information provided here.
> 
> However, like 'panda_oz', we also have one little problem. The internal junction box B (SM-JC41) doesn't fit into the hole underneath the BB on my SW Roubaix SL3.
> 
> The Specialized documentations http://service.specialized.com/collateral/ownersguide/new/assets/pdf/Shifters---Shimano-Di2-Internal-Routing-Instruction-Guide.pdf shows that it should slide-in nicely into the frame, but it doesn't on my SL3. My only guess was the information that the tech-doc provided was about the 7970 junction box.
> 
> Unlike 'panda_oz', I don't have the privilege of having a longer E-Tube cables to be able to reroute the cables and place the SM-JC41 into my seat tube. Mine are all 'preset' to their certain lengths, as I bought this group -set second hand (was installed on a Medium Giant frame). Plus, having spent 3+ hours last weekend to cabling them, I am not really keen on redoing the whole cabling.
> 
> So, my 'only' option for now is to file the edges of the junction box B (SM-JC41), as it was just slightly too big. However, before I do that, can anyone share what you did, or share ideas of the best way to do it? Is it 'safe' to file the casing of the SM-JC41?
> 
> Below are the photos to explain what I am talking about.
> 
> View attachment 293506
> 
> 
> View attachment 293507
> 
> 
> Thanks ever so much in anticipation of your kind help.


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## shanehill

*rssetiawan The junction is the same for the 9070 as well as the 6770 and 6870. Now what is different is the size of that hole in the base of the downtube. On my 56 cm specialized frame, the junction slid in just fine. On a 52cm frame, we had to use a round file to take the hard edge off of two sides of the hole to allow the junction to slide in. LBS and Specialized both told us to file the edges of the hole and not worry about it. *


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## roadworthy

shanehill said:


> *rssetiawan The junction is the same for the 9070 as well as the 6770 and 6870. Now what is different is the size of that hole in the base of the downtube. On my 56 cm specialized frame, the junction slid in just fine. On a 52cm frame, we had to use a round file to take the hard edge off of two sides of the hole to allow the junction to slide in. LBS and Specialized both told us to file the edges of the hole and not worry about it. *


Valuable information, because I too thought the newer E-tube junction box maybe slightly bigger but apparently this isn't the case. Thanks. So it been established now based upon your and other's input...and this is important, that the window under the downtube on these bikes is what varies by frame size and sometimes the B junction box on smaller frames won't fit without some tweaking. Good to know.


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## goodboyr

I guess the choice is to file the frame or mod the cables. Either should work but I would avoid frame filing. I'm sure you don't need much material filed off but if you slip or make a mistake you damage frame. OTOH, e tube wires are relatively cheap.


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## rssetiawan

Hi all,

Thanks all for the insights. I took the bike to my LBS, which is a Specialized shop, and their suggestion was exactly like shanehill said. So I did. I filed the edges of the hole, and voila. The junction box slides in nicely now.

The next problem, I feel uneasy of 'dropping' the junction box completely into the frame, because of the 'tightness' of the hole and the junction box, I don't think I will be able to retrieve it back out in the future if I need to (i.e. if I want to change frame, etc). So I still have it hanging outside the frame now.

Any ideas how to retrieve the SMC-J41 once it sats in a Specialized frame? especially given the only access is just that tiny hole.

Thanks heaps.


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## shanehill

It will come out if it went in.


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## Rick Draper

Why don't you wire up the junction box, remove the fork exposing a massive hole in the downtube/headtube junction. Then drop long lengths of string in through the DI2 holes in the seat post and chain stay holes and drag the cables into the frame through that hole?


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## roadworthy

shanehill said:


> It will come out if it went in.


This ^^^
If/when you need to get it out, fashion a small hook with a coat hanger and grab around one of the E-tube connections and pull it out. Should be no prob.
Me personally, I wouldn't have filed the BB hole...but rather the junction box edges...a matter of choice only.


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## roadworthy

Rick Draper said:


> Why don't you wire up the junction box, remove the fork exposing a massive hole in the downtube/headtube junction. Then drop long lengths of string in through the DI2 holes in the seat post and chain stay holes and drag the cables into the frame through that hole?


Gotta love the forum. Collective different ways of doing things emerge to create best options. This maybe the best practice of all. Trick will be to get all the connections to the junction box at the BB with std E-tubes..most notably the E-tube running down the drive side chainstay. My vote is still soldering the connections because you can taylor all E-tube lengths...lightest and cheapest (no junction box required)...but not everybody will want to do this kind of hack. Great to have different choices.


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## Rick Draper

Oh a vacuum cleaner is your best friend as well for getting string or fishing line through the frame.


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## di2diy

roadworthy said:


> Sorry, you guys are wrong about it. A simple hack to run dual batteries on the same bike at the same time power being separated by a switch. The CAN never experiences any involvement as the 2 lead hack occurs outside the CAN. Hacking Di2 will become more prevalent over time by EE's who like to play with this stuff.
> Here is such a hack. Check out the non Shimano specific battery. Piece of cake to terminate it to interface the E-tube outside the CAN. There would be NO parallel current. Battery voltages would be mutually exlcusive. For you guys that think this can't be done, take some EE classes.
> 
> Ultegra Di2 TT Hack | NY Velocity - New York bike racing culture, news and events
> 
> PS: I may in fact follow the lead of the posted link and build my own harness without E-tubes. I have a background in electronics and all you need are the CAN chips...not the wiring or junction boxes as the article points out. Will likely go with the battery below...pennies on the dollar.


The battery shown here CAN NOT be used without going through a battery mount, SM-BMR1, BMR2.


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## roadworthy

di2diy said:


> The battery shown here CAN NOT be used without going through a battery mount, SM-BMR1, BMR2.


First, maybe you should define by what you mean 'shown here'. Shown where?

Second, no aftermarket RC battery can power Di2 without a chip which is imbedded inside the external battery mounts you reference. Those mounts can be trimmed down and placed inside the frame seat tube and in fact are for sale on ebay as a kit.
Shimano integrates a separate CAN chip inside their pricey seat tube battery and what many try to avoid by separating the mount and going with a low cost RC battery which is easily replaced.

But here is the point. Two batteries CAN share the same battery mount. This is EE 101 taught in any entry level engineering school. Two batteries simply can not power the same battery mount at the same time. Or you could wire a system with two separate battery mounts but that is waste of space and money because you can't run two battery CAN chips at the same time. If you want to see the circuit to enable either battery with the same chip, let me know.


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## di2diy

roadworthy said:


> First, maybe you should define by what you mean 'shown here'. Shown where?
> 
> Second, no aftermarket RC battery can power Di2 without a chip which is imbedded inside the external battery mounts you reference. Those mounts can be trimmed down and placed inside the frame seat tube and in fact are for sale on ebay as a kit.
> Shimano integrates a separate CAN chip inside their pricey seat tube battery and what many try to avoid by separating the mount and going with a low cost RC battery which is easily replaced.
> 
> But here is the point. Two batteries CAN share the same battery mount. This is EE 101 taught in any entry level engineering school. Two batteries simply can not power the same battery mount at the same time. Or you could wire a system with two separate battery mounts but that is waste of space and money because you can't run two battery CAN chips at the same time. If you want to see the circuit to enable either battery with the same chip, let me know.


The thread I was replying to had a picture of a 750Ah batteryspace battery like the one I use to use, but stopped using because the were unreliable, and yes I know about the kits on ebay because I'm the one selling them (7970 & e tube), have been for years before Shimano ever released the BTR2. what I guess I do not understand is WTF you would ever need to put two batteries in the system with a switch... just seems silly.


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## roadworthy

di2diy said:


> The thread I was replying to had a picture of a 750Ah batteryspace battery like the one I use to use, but stopped using because the were unreliable, and yes I know about the kits on ebay because I'm the one selling them (7970 & e tube), have been for years before Shimano ever released the BTR2. what I guess I do not understand is WTF you would ever need to put two batteries in the system with a switch... just seems silly.


OK...so you actually DO know about hacking battery mounts down in size because you do this to sell them on ebay. That's fine. Your reference about that battery shown being unreliable, though you didn't state why, is noted. Perhaps you like your brand of battery better and/or want to sell more kits. You may even be right and do use a better battery with higher charging capacity and longer life, there are a few to choose from that blow the stock Shimano batterys...internal and external away.

But it doesn't have anything to do with you posited earlier. So we come down to your 'WTF' question or why would anybody want to do this. You would have to read back through the thread for the answer. It is about battery life and charging access. I made the point and in fact through out a bet to defend my point and btw it still stands if anybody still doesn't believe me, that I can build a dual battery Di2 bike with a single modded battery receptacle and a simple 3 pole toggle switch. Both batteries and the hacked down battery receptacle with imbedded chip would be internal to the seat tube. Why? Because when one battery dies if being on an African safari and no access to recharging, you could flip the switch and now ride with the fresh battery until you made it to your destination. Do I have a need for such a bike? No, because I have access to charging well within the considerable range of necessary recharging. In fact, I believe good battery life to be one of the better features of Di2 but for those that are paranoid about losing battery power because of lack of charging access, there is no reason why two seat tube batteries can't be mounted with a switch.
I hope that helps.
PS: a switch for those electrically challenged is a surrogate for simply removing the dead battery and replacing it with a charged battery. Instead of manually undoing the connector say inside the seat tube, this is merely done by redirecting current.


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## 1Butcher

The amount of people in the world that ride a Di2 bike that need a second battery is as close to nil as possible. About as much as the watt gain you get with an aero frame.

If there was a demand, someone would be making it. If it was a concern, they would not use electric shifting. 

There is a lot of things you can do, I'm certain you can do this too. I surely would not bet against you that you could not do it. I would bet you would fail [as in loose money] if you marketed it to the public.


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## roadworthy

1Butcher said:


> The amount of people in the world that ride a Di2 bike that need a second battery is as close to nil as possible. About as much as the watt gain you get with an aero frame.
> 
> If there was a demand, someone would be making it. If it was a concern, they would not use electric shifting.
> 
> There is a lot of things you can do, I'm certain you can do this too. I surely would not bet against you that you could not do it. I would bet you would fail [as in loose money] if you marketed it to the public.


Pretty much agree with everything you wrote. The thread somehow got on a tangent of concern about battery life and not being in proximity to charging which seems quite remote and yes low demand. Most under this circumstance purchase a back up battery which is plug and play but generally unnecessary weight. I suppose it isn't too unrelated to those with laptops who travel in the wild or off the beaten path. Many will take a back up battery. Also there are USB battery back ups for all kinds of electronic devices...including popular MiFi internet hotspots.
Me personally, I wouldn't take a Di2 or EPS bike out to the wilderness where there wasn't access to power....would choose a mechanical groupset.

Also Butcher, not sure you heard about the cobble stages of the TdF this year. I read one team...not sure if there were more, deliberately removed Di2 from their endurance bikes for these stages because of concern over shift integrity due to jarring conditions. Not that Di2 would fail...more like lack of tactile feedback for shift buttons resulting in mis shifts under very jarring conditions.


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## 1Butcher

I would be the first to admit that I have unintentionally shifted due to the ease of shifting. Due to the amount of effort that it takes to shift mechanically, I would find it difficult to believe that could happen. The last thing you want in the heat of the battle is to worry about your equipment. 

For 20 years, I flew hang gliders and every now and then I would look up at my glider wondering what if. A couple of seconds later, I would get back to the task at hand. Equipment failure is something you do not want to think about.

Electric is not the end all for everyone, it sure works for me. I will never even attempt anything in the mud, I do know there are a few team members, in cyclocross, that swear by it. I do believe most of the top bikes will all be electric and someday you too will dive into the deep end too.


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## roadworthy

1Butcher said:


> I would be the first to admit that I have unintentionally shifted due to the ease of shifting. Due to the amount of effort that it takes to shift mechanically, I would find it difficult to believe that could happen. The last thing you want in the heat of the battle is to worry about your equipment.
> 
> For 20 years, I flew hang gliders and every now and then I would look up at my glider wondering what if. A couple of seconds later, I would get back to the task at hand. Equipment failure is something you do not want to think about.
> 
> Electric is not the end all for everyone, it sure works for me. I will never even attempt anything in the mud, I do know there are a few team members, in cyclocross, that swear by it. I do believe most of the top bikes will all be electric and someday you too will dive into the deep end too.


What a cool hobby. Hang gliding. I never caught the flight bug even though always intrigued by the tech of lift over drag.  No question a leap of faith about equipment in that arena in particular.

Stay safe.


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## J-Flo

Thread revival time. I ride a 2013 Roubaix Comp that I would like to upgrade to Ultegra Di2 (6870) with internal battery. 

However, this frame like so many others has only traditional cable stops on the downtube and chainstay. There are no internal routing ports in either tube and no hole at the end of the chainstay. (There is a brake cable port in the top tube, but that's it.) 

I have read through this thread and see all discussion appears to focus on SL3 or SL4 frames that have ICR ports.  But what about the rest of us? 

Does anyone know how to install Di2 on this bike without an ugly mess of external wiring?

Do I need to drill holes in the frame (and if so, is that a bad idea)? Thanks!


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## 1Butcher

I drilled holes in three of my Tarmacs. One was stolen, one was wrecked [hit a car that pulled out], and a SW SL3 I have now. Soon, one more [not completed].

All three had the wiring run inside the handle bars, through the stem, in the steering tube, then out of the steering tube to the inside of the frame. The frame holes were done so the cables could go to the respective derailleurs. Two of the frames had the rear derailleur cable come out where the cable stops were. The SL3 frame the rear drop out was drilled out. So far so good with that. The 4th Tarmac has been drilled there too. Those drop outs are made from aluminum. I probably would not drill out a carbon drop out. The front derailleur hole was drilled close to the derailleur in a way that you could barely see the cable exit. The first one was close to the back, but I realized that the rear tire was close to the cable. The others were canted to the side so I did not have to worry about the tire hitting the cable.

I did seal the edges of the holes with epoxy. What for? I do not know, maybe a piece of mind. 

The only wires that were visible were to the derailleurs. All the steering tubes were reinforced [sleeved] due to the holes being drilled. None were an issue and I would do it again. I'm picky with what handle bar I used since I could not find an acceptable way to reinforce the hole needed for the wires to come out.

Since I use Campagnolo, I put the battery charging port to the seat post. Yes, I bought the charger extension cable.

I did remove the cable stops on all the frames and plugged the drilled holes with a carbon fiber rod [1/8"]. If you want to drill a hole in a frame, why not enlarge a hole where the cable stop used to be?

Not recommending this to anyone, but it has worked for me. I did convert the SL3 to internal rear brake cable too. That took more drilling. 2 years and no problems.


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## J-Flo

Thanks 1Butcher. 

I am not eager to drill a hole in the steerer tube. I also am not sure how that would work with Di2, which requires an upper junction box (usually under the stem) for charging and joining the shifter cables.

In theory I think it should be fine to drill a small hole in the downtube, but assume there are right and wrong ways and places to do it.

Anyone else have experience with this?


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## 1Butcher

Oh you bet. Drilling holes in places that were not designed to be is not for the faint at heart.

But we should not fly or go to the moon either. Someones got to do it, so after exhaustive research, I elected to to it. Again, I sleeved the internal tube so I believe it is much stronger and the stem [that holds the interface] already was hollow. There were holes already in the external portion of the handlebar [where the brake cables were run internally] so the only issue was drilling a hole at the handlebar where the stem is located.

I would never say it is the right thing to do, but just saying for the record, I have [or had] a total of three bikes [and plus one more that is not completely built yet] that has a total of 10k miles without an issue. 

Yes, do not drill holes in places not designed for it, but if you want to know, I did and it did work for me. If I did and it did not work for me, I would be certain to tell you that too.

For what it's worth, I crashed head on at 30mph to a side of a car and cracked the carbon fork at the crown area. No damage to the place where I drilled holes.


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## JaspaJami

roadworthy said:


> But it doesn't have anything to do with you posited earlier. So we come down to your 'WTF' question or why would anybody want to do this. You would have to read back through the thread for the answer. It is about battery life and charging access. I made the point and in fact through out a bet to defend my point and btw it still stands if anybody still doesn't believe me, that I can build a dual battery Di2 bike with a single modded battery receptacle and a simple 3 pole toggle switch. Both batteries and the hacked down battery receptacle with imbedded chip would be internal to the seat tube. Why? Because when one battery dies if being on an African safari and no access to recharging, you could flip the switch and now ride with the fresh battery until you made it to your destination.


Why to connect extra battery behind switch when you can also connect them parallel and double the capacity of one battery that way?


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## JaspaJami

But, theres now hack yet for the eTube protocol? I would love to use just the Alfine Di2 hub + motor and control those with example Arduino. Has anyone seen any progress on this matter?


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## TiCoyote

I want to switch to Di2 as well, but I'm riding a 2012 Tarmac SL3, and there are no ports or internal cable holes. I suppose I could go eTap, or do external wiring, but I think I'd rather just try to find a used 2014 Tarmac SL4 on eBay, and build it up. Here's what I'm thinking my options are: 
Used Tarmac + Di2 grouppo - sell the parts I strip off = Total
$2000 +1200-300=2900

New Tarmac + Di2 grouppo - sell the existing drivetrain = Total
$3000+1200-500=3700

Used Frameset+Di2 Grouppo + post, saddle, bars, stem = Total
$1200+1200+300=2700

I'm leaning toward option 1. Only problem is, finding the bike on eBay I want.


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## mgoppert

*Venge di2 Grommets*



carbonLORD said:


> They do.
> 
> Part# S132000002
> 
> CBS MY13 ROUBAIX / VENGE SW-PRO CABLE STOP KIT FOR SHIMANO DI2
> 
> View attachment 292231


I'm looking for this part. It seems like it's very hard to find. I have 2 stores looking for them now. If anyone knows where I can buy one, please let me know.


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