# Falkirk & Immortal Force Carbon :: Calling Mike



## mattwebster77 (May 11, 2006)

Mike,

I've enjoyed reading your posts. Thank you for providing us with some more insight to your products. I own a Motobecane Record that I bought at my local cycle spectrum. It has been my starter bike and a very good one at that. 

I'm interested in upgrading to carbon and would like to know more "geeky" details on the Windsor Falkirk & Motobecane Immortal Force/Spirit Carbon frames.

Some of your posts that I have read seem to imply that many of your steel and aluminum frames are equivalent to other "big name" manufacturer's frames that are made in Taiwan. Is this also true of your Carbon mono frames? You teased me by threatening to post a "the matrix of who makes which" and now I'm just dieing to know.

So if you won't post the matrix, would it be possible for you to provide me (us) with information concerning the types of carbon and the processing techniques is used in these frames?


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## bikesdirect (Sep 9, 2006)

*thanks for your carbon fiber question*

Matt 

First, I will admit to knowing more about steel and aluminum than I do about carbon fiber.
However, before ever specing one bike with CF I did research which factories where most respected.

The manufacture of carbon fiber frames is very standardized in Asia. There are many good factories; but 4 get the most spec and interest.

I guess I have my favorite frame builders; but the truth is that all used by smart designers in the USA are very good to excellent.

Motobecane Immortal frames are made by Advanced. [this builder also builds for LOOK and several other big names]. Advanced is as highly recommended as a CF builder comes.

Windsor CF frames are made by ADK [this builder makes for Felt, Fuji, and several others]

Martec and Topkey are other very popular builders who build for lots of brands; including Specialized, Scott, Fuji, Cannondale, etc.

I think you will find very high quality CF frames are built in Asia for Trek, Specialized, Fuji, Motobecane, Windsor, Felt, Scott and a host of others. Design on a CF can effect ride, of course. However, there is no 'perfectly designed' frame; or else everyone would use that geometry.

My question with carbon fiber is durability. I think the judgement is still out on that. And customers must take some more special care with CF. 

Also I feel many people are buying CF for fashion over function. I my opinion there is still a very important place in the market for metal frames. Tourists, commuters, cyclo-cross, budget lite weight race bikes, entry road, Sprint Tri, and several other catagories where I like metal. And I really like metal for mountain bikes [off topic here, I guess].

In the area of ATBs - I will be the last to go to CF frames. The idea of dropping your carbon fiber ATB frame on a tree or rock and then getting back in the saddle to ride or race; does not appeal to me.

Without regard to the type of material I prefer, my job is spec the best bike I can get at a target price. In our case this never envolves saving money by using a cheaper frame. All CF frames I spec now are from Taiwan. As you may know most big brands have moved CF frames from Taiwan to China [saves about $40 per bike]. My feeling is China is also a great place to make CF frames, I just prefer to move last after everyone else tests the water. 

CF frames are expensive now for three big reasons. Material is in short or spoty supply. There is a lot of hand work involved. And frame builders like to make extra cash on anything that is new until competition drives prices down. 

I hope this answers your questions to some extent.


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## mattwebster77 (May 11, 2006)

Mike,

Yes thank you, this certainly helps. But being the geek that I am, I was hoping for something like, "it is a blend of T300 and Txxx carbon fiber" , ect....


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