# Tune or Chris King Hub to be installed with Enve 45 composites?



## tanong (Aug 25, 2011)

Which hub will you select to be installed with Enve 45 composites carbon clincher between Tune mig 70 Front hub+ Tune mig 170 Rear hub or Chris King R45 Front hub + Chris King R45 Rear hub? Plaese give me your recommendation. Thank you.


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## Zen Cyclery (Mar 10, 2009)

Why be restricted to the options that Enve offers? It seems if your paying that much for a wheelset, you shouldn't be restricted to just two options for hubs. The Tunes have been known to have creaking problems and frankly the Chris Kings are a bit heavy. If you were absolutely set on one of the two, I would say go for the Kings. However, Enve does charge a good premium for their builds. So you may want to consider other options to get a better bang for your buck.


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## tanong (Aug 25, 2011)

Zen Cyclery said:


> Why be restricted to the options that Enve offers? It seems if your paying that much for a wheelset, you shouldn't be restricted to just two options for hubs. The Tunes have been known to have creaking problems and frankly the Chris Kings are a bit heavy. If you were absolutely set on one of the two, I would say go for the Kings. However, Enve does charge a good premium for their builds. So you may want to consider other options to get a better bang for your buck.


In my country, there aren't many choices. Tune and King are popular among bike ridres in Thailnad.


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## Zen Cyclery (Mar 10, 2009)

tanong said:


> In my country, there aren't many choices. Tune and King are popular among bike ridres in Thailnad.


That fact that you are on the mighty Interwebz gives you more than enough power to choose your own options. And just because products are popular in your part of the world doesn't necessarily mean that they are the products that are best for you.


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## cpark (Oct 13, 2004)

Neither.
Alchemy hubs are the ones I would recommend.


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## Mdeth1313 (Nov 1, 2001)

tune has new hubs out now that are supposedly quite an improvement over the old ones. That said I had tune hubs on two wheelsets, one of them creaked, jeremy at alchemy fixed it under warranty and then did the other one just in case and I never had a problem w/ them after that.

I still think there are better options than tune, however.


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## mimason (Oct 7, 2006)

tanong, I have King R45s on my Enve 65s and am very happy with them. The only other hub I would want instead would be the Alchemy hubs but that was not an option for me where I purchased them.


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## Zen Cyclery (Mar 10, 2009)

Aside from being manufactured by one of the leading machine shops in the business the folks at Alchemy designed a set of hubs that have the BEST flange spacing of any hub on the market. This allows them to build up into very laterally stiff wheels which is an extremely important consideration for someone who is 80 kilos.

King makes some GREAT hubs but Alchemy makes better ones.


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## Ligero (Oct 21, 2005)

Zen Cyclery said:


> Tanong,
> I remember responding to a post that you put up a few weeks ago and you in which you admitted that your 80 kilos. At that weight you will crack a Tune hub. We stopped carrying Tune because they are simply not durable enough for the majority of riders. The best set of hubs to build up a pair of ENVE 45s with is a pair of Alchemys.


Your experience is with the mag180 hubs which is completely different animal than the Tune mag170. I weigh 93kg not counting the 9kg of stuff I carry in pack on my back, and I have been riding a set of the mig70/mag170 and amazingly they have not made a single noise or "cracked" as you say they should for someone 13kg lighter then me. The 170 is the same basic design as the 180 but with a lot of improvements. It has a larger axle, larger drive ring and larger bearings, they have also got rid of the xot double bearing in the center of the hub and replaced it with 2 separate bearings. 

So yes, there were issues with the mag180 hubs but the new 170 hubs do not have any of those issues.


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## Maximus_XXIV (Nov 10, 2008)

How about White Industrys?


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## Ligero (Oct 21, 2005)

Maximus_XXIV said:


> How about White Industrys?


Great long lasting and well made hubs but not in the same weight range as the Tune or Alchemy. The White Ind hubs are 95g front and 255g rear, Tune is 70g front, 168g rear and Alchemy are 65g front and 225g rear. If you don't care about how much the hubs weigh and you want to save some money go with White Industries.


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## Big Bad Wolf (Jun 17, 2007)

What axle widths does the Alchemy Orc come with? I'm looking for a 135mm rear with campa freebody. Tune does them on its MAG 170.



Zen Cyclery said:


> King makes some GREAT hubs but Alchemy makes better ones.


That is a very bold statement


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## kbwh (May 28, 2010)

I've noted that Roues Artisanales have chosen Alchemy front and Tune rear for their standard wheels, but that might have something to to with the triplet spoking pattern Adrien prefers?


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## tvad (Aug 31, 2003)

I've ben cautioned about parts availability for Tune hubs. Considering 70/170 hubs for a new build, but the parts availability issue has me concerned.

Any insight into this, and into Tune 70/170 reliability in general is appreciated.


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## dcgriz (Feb 13, 2011)

tanong said:


> Which hub will you select to be installed with Enve 45 composites carbon clincher between Tune mig 70 Front hub+ Tune mig 170 Rear hub or Chris King R45 Front hub + Chris King R45 Rear hub? Plaese give me your recommendation. Thank you.


I had Enve lace my 45 clinchers on CK R45, 24f/28r radial-f/2x-r, cx-rays. I am a big guy and able to put down the watts. I must have about 800 miles on this particular set since last January when I got it and it has remained as true as originally was. My vote goes to CK. As a matter of fact, I have a couple of other handmades on CK R45s and have nothing to complain about. If radial lacing is your preferance, the wide flanges of the CKs are able to safely accomodate it which is important if you are heavier than the typical 165 lber.


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## woz (Dec 26, 2005)

tvad said:


> I've ben cautioned about parts availability for Tune hubs. Considering 70/170 hubs for a new build, but the parts availability issue has me concerned.
> 
> Any insight into this, and into Tune 70/170 reliability in general is appreciated.


This was definitely more of an issue with the 180 than the 170. The 180 used a proprietary bearing called the XoT, the 170 uses standard bearings available just about anywhere. End caps and axles have not been an issue with availability either. So unless you're converting from Shimano to Campag or back and need a freehub body there really isn't anything to worry about. There have been some supply issues with getting freehub bodies, but I don't believe that's related to it being a replacement part, because getting the complete hubs has been just as difficult. I think Tune just haven't been able to keep up with demand this year. 

We've sold quite a few of the new 70/170's and have been totally happy with them. So far we've seen only one single issue with a hub making some noise and it turned out to be that it was missing a preload spacer from assembly. Otherwise they've been stelllar.

A couple years back I wrote a pretty thorough hub review in conjunction with rruff from white mountain wheels, currently we are working on our newest one which will include updates and new models.


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## ms6073 (Jul 7, 2005)

Zen Cyclery said:


> We stopped carrying Tune because they are simply not durable enough for the majority of riders. The best set of hubs to build up a pair of ENVE 45s with is a pair of Alchemys.


Interesting. I have a set of Enve 65 tubulars (16/20) built on Tune Mig 45/Mag 150 hubs and while I initially had issues with creaking of the rear hub, this was corrected under warranty at Fairwheel. As for durability, despite a weight of 1045 graams for the wheelset, they have worked great for road racing on all kinds of terrain and also worked just as well after I mounted a set of file treads and raced them at several fair weather CX races last season.


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## tvad (Aug 31, 2003)

Thank you, WOZ.


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## Big Bad Wolf (Jun 17, 2007)

I haven't had a Tune product that didn't develop troubles after a while. Not sure if they used standard bearings now, they used to use very specific ones only available from Tune themselves.
Chris King otoh , no troubles at all.
I have R45 ceramics running on my everyday wheels and they are a dream.


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## whason (May 29, 2010)

I've had CK hubs on my wheelset for 8 years serviced once in that time period with no problems, I haven't even had them serviced and they run similar to how they did when I bought them. 

I asked once, and my LBS actually told me they would be happy to service the hubs, more oftenm but feel they are sealed so well that its unneccesary,


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## TomH (Oct 6, 2008)

The alchemy rear hub weighs 222g, the king is 218g. Theres nothing heavy about that hub. The front hub is about 35g heavier than alchemys. Kings would build a splitting hairs heavier wheelset.


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## tvad (Aug 31, 2003)

woz said:


> We've sold quite a few of the new 70/170's and have been totally happy with them. So far we've seen only one single issue with a hub making some noise and it turned out to be that it was missing a preload spacer from assembly.


I see that Chris King has a 5 year warranty. What's Tune's warranty?


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## TimV (Mar 20, 2007)

The nice thing about Chris King hubs (and all of their other bearing components) is that you won't ever need the warranty. I have five sets of King Hubs across my MTB and road bikes and as well as a couple of headsets and bottom brackets. Some of them are twenty years old. I've had no issues. Chris King makes a great product.


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## tvad (Aug 31, 2003)

TimV said:


> The nice thing about Chris King hubs (and all of their other bearing components) is that you won't ever need the warranty.


Warranty is definitely a benefit of CK hubs.

BTW...I found the Tune warranty:

_Warranty:
Tune hubs are covered by a 2-year warranty against breakage from the date of purchase when built using a three cross spoke pattern. The warranty period for radial laced wheels is 3 years. The bearings have a warranty period of one year excluding wear and tear._


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## dcgriz (Feb 13, 2011)

No comparison between the two. It's a no brainer


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## tvad (Aug 31, 2003)

dcgriz said:


> No comparison between the two. It's a no brainer


I've read your post about your experience with CK R45.

What's your experience with Tune 70/170?


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## dcgriz (Feb 13, 2011)

tvad said:


> I've read your post about your experience with CK R45.
> 
> What's your experience with Tune 70/170?


The "No comparison between the two" refers to your previous post on the CK warranty vs. the Tune limited and conditional warranty. The results of my research on Tunes coincides with what is stated by numerous posts on this thread alone. My subjective order of preference is CK, Alchemy, WI, Shimano, in that order. I have not seen any compelling reason to experiment with Tune.

Add Edit: Also consider the 3x limitation


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## tvad (Aug 31, 2003)

I agree the CK warranty is superior to the Tune warranty.

However, for a Campy hubset, the Tune 70/170 combo is 87 grams lighter than a CKR45 combo.

To me, that's weight savings worthy of consideration, and therefore the decision is not so clear cut.


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## dcgriz (Feb 13, 2011)

tvad said:


> I agree the CK warranty is superior to the Tune warranty.
> 
> However, for a Campy hubset, the Tune 70/170 combo is 87 grams lighter than a CKR45 combo.
> 
> To me, that's weight savings worthy of consideration, and therefore the decision is not so clear cut.


I understand your point but I don't share your concern. After a certain point I start looking at the mirror for further weight reductions.


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## tvad (Aug 31, 2003)

dcgriz said:


> I understand your point but I don't share your concern. After a certain point I start looking at the mirror for further weight reductions.


No problem. I know where you stand, and I appreciate your input.


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