# Domane Isospeed Decoupler Fail



## Szlmdm

I have a question about the Isospeed decoupler on my 2015 Trek Domane 5.2. Recently I noticed that the decoupler was not dampening the ride like it used to. When I took it into the LBS for service they said they could just replace it and it would be fine. Once they got it apart they said that it had corroded most likely from sweat and had seized internally. When they tried to replace it they said that the outer race had "fused" to the frame and in order to get it out it will like break the frame and render it unusable. They submitted a warranty claim to Trek but it was denied as a lack of maintenance issue as opposed to a manufacturing defect. LBS says the options are order new frame (which will entail replacing the brakes as the design has changed and cost $1500) or buy a new bike. Now I will admit that I did nothing in terms of maintenance for the decoupler beyond washing regularly. So I took in a bike that at least I could ride to the LBS and now it is totally unrideable, useful only to harvest the components. 
Questions: Has anyone else had any issues with the Isospeed seizing and fusing to the frame? Should I pick up the bike and take it to another LBS for second opinion? 
Thanks


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## cxwrench

I work at a Trek owned shop and I have never once seen one that's stuck in the frame. Bottom bracket and headset bearings are another story.


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## Steve B.

Curious if it’s in the owners manual to have maintanence done on a regular basis for the Isospeed systems. If not, I’d have a beef with Trek.


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## GKSki

Agree with Steve. If Trek hasn't got enough real world experience with this design to have written up specific maintenance instructions for that area of the frame, and you have routinely cleaned the bicycle, then I think this is all on them.


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## Fredrico

Steve B. said:


> Curious if it’s in the owners manual to have maintanence done on a regular basis for the Isospeed systems. If not, I’d have a beef with Trek.


Yep, me too. If the thing froze up and stuck in the frame, it was the weak link in the system and failed. Whatever forces it had to handle overcame its capabilities. Faulty design. 

Do those things actually improve the ride, or just soften it up? If so, is that good or bad? Is the tradeoff worth it? Can they handle a heavy rider? How long before they take one too many hits and start to come apart? Frankly, I'd go back to solid tubes. One less thing to worry about.


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## Marc

GKSki said:


> Agree with Steve. If Trek hasn't got enough real world experience with this design to have written up specific maintenance instructions for that area of the frame, and you have routinely cleaned the bicycle, then I think this is all on them.


And I quote:

"*The IsoSpeed mechanism is designed to last the lifetime of the bicycle without service. Do not lubricate it.* Keep it clean with water and soft cloth. If the mechanism makes noise or exhibits lateral play, the design allows easy replacement of the mechanism. Take your bicycle to your retailer for service" 


Pg 39: https://trek.scene7.com/is/content/...Library/Bike OM_withWeightsAddendum_en-US.pdf accessed via: https://www.trekbikes.com/us/en_US/manuals/

Bold emphasis mine. I'd pick a bone with them. Basically reads "don't mess with it until something is wrong with it--then we'll fix it". Which is exactly what the OP did, and Trek ain't doing.


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## kiwisimon

Did you buy it from the LBS you took it to? If yes I'd have a real problem with the LBS not giving you the support in the warranty claim. 

You could try another dealer but maybe go direct to your area Trek rep. I'd be pissed if you have followed their instructions and then they try and blame you for doing just that.


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## Srode

I would press Trek on this one too. I'd also do some work with good penetrating oil for a couple weeks to see if it wouldn't loosen up before scrapping a frame.


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## Peter P.

Thanks for posting the Trek manual instructions; that was useful.

I think the OP should bring the manual along with the bike back to the shop and try again. If that fails, try a second shop. If THAT fails, contact Trek directly and see what they say.

Report back with your resolution.

I'm with Fredrico; too many parts, and just something else to go wrong or creak.


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## Srode

Fredrico said:


> Do those things actually improve the ride, or just soften it up? If so, is that good or bad? Is the tradeoff worth it? Can they handle a heavy rider? How long before they take one too many hits and start to come apart? Frankly, I'd go back to solid tubes. One less thing to worry about.


Yes, it's a very noticeable improvement in the quality of the ride. I've got over 25,000 miles on a Domane, not failures. Weight, 175lbs to 185lbs depending on the time of year. 

Not sure what you mean by Soften up vs improve the ride - to me that's the same thing.


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## Lombard

Steve B. said:


> Curious if it’s in the owners manual to have maintanence done on a regular basis for the Isospeed systems. If not, I’d have a beef with Trek.





Marc said:


> And I quote:
> 
> "*The IsoSpeed mechanism is designed to last the lifetime of the bicycle without service. Do not lubricate it.* Keep it clean with water and soft cloth. If the mechanism makes noise or exhibits lateral play, the design allows easy replacement of the mechanism. Take your bicycle to your retailer for service"
> 
> 
> Pg 39: https://trek.scene7.com/is/content/...Library/Bike OM_withWeightsAddendum_en-US.pdf accessed via: https://www.trekbikes.com/us/en_US/manuals/
> 
> Bold emphasis mine. I'd pick a bone with them. Basically reads "don't mess with it until something is wrong with it--then we'll fix it". Which is exactly what the OP did, and Trek ain't doing.


Good luck with this. I've heard too many stories from people where Trek weaseled out of warranty coverage.



kiwisimon said:


> Did you buy it from the LBS you took it to? If yes I'd have a real problem with the LBS not giving you the support in the warranty claim.


Not really the fault of the dealer. If Trek denies coverage, you can't expect the dealer to pick up the tab. Trek is bullying dealers to sell at least 80% Trek products or they won't provide support to the shop. I have to wonder if this is an example of that. I have no concrete proof, but it does seem fishy that people who go to 100% Trek dealers get great warranty support. Hmmmm.


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## Fredrico

Srode said:


> Yes, it's a very noticeable improvement in the quality of the ride. I've got over 25,000 miles on a Domane, not failures. Weight, 175lbs to 185lbs depending on the time of year.
> 
> Not sure what you mean by Soften up vs improve the ride - to me that's the same thing.


Reassuring testimony! :thumbsup: 

Well, do you want the bike to ride like a Cadillac or a Ferrari?  I like some feel for the road, if for any other reason, to gauge my efforts accurately.

Then again, shock absorbers on the seat stays aren't going to "soften up" handling. Didn't Sky riders use ISO couplers in Paris-Roubaix? Response would be a function of the fork, headset, down tube, BB, chain stays, and wheels. ISO couplers are better than putting the shock absorber in the seat post, as it never upsets seat height, which would not be desirable when whacking up a mountain for all you're worth.


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## kiwisimon

Lombard said:


> Good luck with this. I've heard too many stories from people where Trek weaseled out of warranty coverage.
> 
> 
> 
> *Not really the fault of the dealer. If Trek denies coverage*, you can't expect the dealer to pick up the tab. Trek is bullying dealers to sell at least 80% Trek products or they won't provide support to the shop. I have to wonder if this is an example of that. I have no concrete proof, but it does seem fishy that people who go to 100% Trek dealers get great warranty support. Hmmmm.


Well they are the first and last point of contact for the customer. If they aren't prepared to stand by their products, it is their responsibility, not fault. Tough for them to have to peddle a product that loses them customers, maybe the obvious choice would be to sell brands with better dealer support. 
Still waiting for the OP to get back.


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## Lombard

kiwisimon said:


> Well they are the first and last point of contact for the customer. If they aren't prepared to stand by their products, it is their responsibility, not fault. Tough for them to have to peddle a product that loses them customers, maybe the obvious choice would be to sell brands with better dealer support.
> Still waiting for the OP to get back.


To stop selling a brand can be a slippery slope. My shop is gradually selling less and less Trek as a result of so many claim problems. The problem with that is it's only a matter of time before Trek plays even harder ball and tells my shop they will no longer provide ANY support for the shop's existing customers. They have already threatened him, but have stopped short of actually doing this. The owner is taking a wait and see approach at this point.

With Cannondale, Jamis, GT and Linskey calling to him to sell their bikes, why should he take the abuse?


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## Fredrico

Peter P. said:


> Thanks for posting the Trek manual instructions; that was useful.
> 
> I think the OP should bring the manual along with the bike back to the shop and try again. If that fails, try a second shop. If THAT fails, contact Trek directly and see what they say.
> 
> Report back with your resolution.
> 
> I'm with Fredrico; too many parts, and just something else to go wrong or creak.


If the manual says no maintenance required, just keep it clean, the owner does that and it fails, it's their fault, not the owner's. They should take the frame back, replace the coupler, or frame if necessary, and call it a day. Those things aren't supposed to happen on a bike that costs as much as a late model used car. :nono:


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## Srode

Fredrico said:


> Reassuring testimony! :thumbsup:
> 
> Well, do you want the bike to ride like a Cadillac or a Ferrari?  I like some feel for the road, if for any other reason, to gauge my efforts accurately.


I use mine for long rides mostly, so prefer the Caddy ride!  I do get plenty of feedback from the road through my bars though.


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## Fredrico

Srode said:


> I use mine for long rides mostly, so prefer the Caddy ride!  I do get plenty of feedback from the road through my bars though.


That's where you want it! :thumbsup:

Noticed road bike head tube angles getting shallower, which gives a Cadillac ride compared to steeper angles used throughout the '80s, when the Italians were making stuff for the emerging American criterium market. Those bikes were easy to oversteer, go off track or slip out on wet leaves. 75-74 degree was considered "oversteer," 73 "neutral" and 72 or 71 would be Cadillac understeer used on touring or endurance events, and later mountain bikes. Adding shock absorbers under the saddle would be a nice extra treat. Builders are trying it with really skinny seat stays, flirting with structural integrity.

Since most riders aren't racing crits, instead riding long distances on the roads, they'd prefer shallower steering angles. Nervous crit geometries seem to be a thing of the past. They were fun though. Rider could exert a little more energy onto the front wheel when going all out and they climbed well.


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## cxwrench

Fredrico said:


> That's where you want it! :thumbsup:
> 
> Noticed road bike head tube angles getting shallower, which gives a Cadillac ride compared to steeper angles used throughout the '80s, when the Italians were making stuff for the emerging American criterium market. Those bikes were easy to oversteer, go off track or slip out on wet leaves. 75-74 degree was considered "oversteer," 73 "neutral" and 72 or 71 would be Cadillac understeer used on touring or endurance events, and later mountain bikes. Adding shock absorbers under the saddle would be a nice extra treat. Builders are trying it with really skinny seat stays, flirting with structural integrity.
> 
> Since most riders aren't racing crits, instead riding long distances on the roads, they'd prefer shallower steering angles. Nervous crit geometries seem to be a thing of the past. They were fun though. Rider could exert a little more energy onto the front wheel when going all out and they climbed well.


Head tube angle alone does not dictate handling characteristics. Not even close.


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## kiwisimon

Lombard said:


> To stop selling a brand can be a slippery slope. My shop is gradually selling less and less Trek as a result of so many claim problems. The problem with that is it's only a matter of time before Trek plays even harder ball and tells my shop they will no longer provide ANY support for the shop's existing customers. They have already threatened him, but have stopped short of actually doing this. The owner is taking a wait and see approach at this point.
> 
> With Cannondale, Jamis, GT and Linskey calling to him to sell their bikes, *why should he take the abuse?*


Tough decision to make but at the end of the day about all a shop can offer is exceptional service and that includes warranty work.

Are Trek really that popular over there? I would have thought the Lance effect had worn off. 

Giant and Merida are what our local shop sells (and two local Japanese brands) and he is very happy with them. Closest Trek dealer is a two hour drive away. Next closest four hours. But Trek Japan have really good service, they have to over here.


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## Lombard

kiwisimon said:


> Tough decision to make but at the end of the day about all a shop can offer is exceptional service and that includes warranty work.


Exceptional service is all a shop can offer. However, if that includes footing the bill when a bike maker won't cover warranty repairs, that shop will be bankrupted very quickly.



kiwisimon said:


> Are Trek really that popular over there? I would have thought the Lance effect had worn off.


Trek used to be a great brand with exceptional support. Now they are taking the low road like Specialized. The point is my shop doesn't want to lose their previous customers, but they don't want to roll over and be a doormat either. There is in fact a 100% Trek shop not too far away, but my shop provides better overall service and most people would rather stay with my shop if given a choice. Trek bikes are great until they aren't. The people who have them love them and I really doubt it has anything to do with the "Lance effect". If anything, all the doping has turned people off.


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## ngl

I'd like to know if the OP purchased the bike (new) from an authorized dealer. Maybe this is the reason his warranty claim was denied. 

"Trek Bicycle Corporation provides each original retail purchaser of the bicycle a lifetime warranty against defects in materials and workmanship in the bicycle frame and rigid fork when purchased from an authorized Trek dealer."


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## Lombard

ngl said:


> I'd like to know if the OP purchased the bike (new) from an authorized dealer. Maybe this is the reason his warranty claim was denied.
> "Trek Bicycle Corporation provides each original retail purchaser of the bicycle a lifetime *warranty against defects in materials and workmanship* in the bicycle frame and rigid fork when purchased from an authorized Trek dealer."


Here is where companies exercise wiggle room. Most of us don't know how to analyze a bike frame to see whether a failure was caused by a defect or by misuse and abuse. We are at the mercy of the provider of a warranty. A warranty is only as good as the company who provides it.

And what constitutes abuse or misuse?  Hitting a large pothole? Pebbles striking the frame at a high velocity? Too many grey areas. Most well-heeled companies will give the customer the benefit of the doubt sans obvious abuse as it solidifies customer loyalty. Others will double down and reject a claim whenever they possibly can. Sadly, Trek has taken the latter path as of late.


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## cxwrench

Lombard said:


> Here is where companies exercise wiggle room. Most of us don't know how to analyze a bike frame to see whether a failure was caused by a defect or by misuse and abuse. We are at the mercy of the provider of a warranty. A warranty is only as good as the company who provides it.
> 
> And what constitutes abuse or misuse? Hitting a large pothole? Pebbles striking the frame at a high velocity? Too many grey areas. Most well-heeled companies will give the customer the benefit of the doubt sans obvious abuse as it solidifies customer loyalty. Others will double down and reject a claim whenever they possibly can. Sadly, Trek has taken the latter path as of late.


This may be the case w/ your shop but I can say w/o a doubt that they have been exactly the opposite w/ us and that started well before they bought our stores. I've told numerous customers that I'd start a warranty claim but I was 99% sure it would be denied for whatever reason and then Trek approved it. 

I've seen LOTS of bearings corroded and stuck in frames and I've always managed to get them out. Bottom bracket, headset bearings that people have sweated on every day on the trainer. You try to remove them and the bearing comes apart leaving the outer race stuck in the frame. There is ALWAYS a way to get them out.


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## GlobalGuy

Hope that things work out better than they are looking right now for the OP and his problem with the LBS/Trek. 

I live in a very popular recreational bike use area. My current ride is a Trek Domane with about 15,000 miles on it. The LBS I use has four locations within a ten-mile radius. Every problem I've had with the bike Trek has been stellar as has the LBS on my behalf in "dealing" with Trek on the issue. In my specific area Trek riders that use the four stores are high on Trek for having a strong warranty that they adhere to consistently. I suspect that the individual LBS part in the whole process can have a major impact. 

Regarding ride quality, the ISO Speed Decoupler definitely improves the ride comfort of the bike IMO. I have only the rear. The feedback I've gotten from other riders is that bikes that have it on both rear and front are even better riding.


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## DaveG

Lombard said:


> To stop selling a brand can be a slippery slope. My shop is gradually selling less and less Trek as a result of so many claim problems. The problem with that is it's only a matter of time before Trek plays even harder ball and tells my shop they will no longer provide ANY support for the shop's existing customers. They have already threatened him, but have stopped short of actually doing this. The owner is taking a wait and see approach at this point.
> 
> With Cannondale, Jamis, GT and Linskey calling to him to sell their bikes, why should he take the abuse?


I'd really like to see Trek step up their game on intimidation and bullying. Instead of threatening withdrawal of support, maybe rough up some shop owners, burn down a few non-compliant stores and demand "protection payments"


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## BCSaltchucker

Marc said:


> And I quote:
> 
> "*The IsoSpeed mechanism is designed to last the lifetime of the bicycle without service. Do not lubricate it.* Keep it clean with water and soft cloth. If the mechanism makes noise or exhibits lateral play, the design allows easy replacement of the mechanism. Take your bicycle to your retailer for service"
> 
> 
> Pg 39: https://trek.scene7.com/is/content/...Library/Bike OM_withWeightsAddendum_en-US.pdf accessed via: https://www.trekbikes.com/us/en_US/manuals/
> 
> Bold emphasis mine. I'd pick a bone with them. Basically reads "don't mess with it until something is wrong with it--then we'll fix it". Which is exactly what the OP did, and Trek ain't doing.


excellent post! the OP needs to return the frame to Trek with their own dannmmed Isospeed instructions taped securely to the top tube!

what a shggty company. i'm still ticked that they killed Klein though too.


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## Coolhand

cxwrench said:


> This may be the case w/ your shop but I can say w/o a doubt that they have been exactly the opposite w/ us and that started well before they bought our stores. I've told numerous customers that I'd start a warranty claim but I was 99% sure it would be denied for whatever reason and then Trek approved it.
> 
> I've seen LOTS of bearings corroded and stuck in frames and I've always managed to get them out. Bottom bracket, headset bearings that people have sweated on every day on the trainer. You try to remove them and the bearing comes apart leaving the outer race stuck in the frame. There is ALWAYS a way to get them out.


this x2 - Trek seems *a lot better* on warranty at my shop and in my personal experience.


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## Lombard

cxwrench said:


> This may be the case w/ your shop but I can say w/o a doubt that they have been exactly the opposite w/ us and that started well before they bought our stores. I've told numerous customers that I'd start a warranty claim but I was 99% sure it would be denied for whatever reason and then Trek approved it.


I cannot say I know what is actually going on behind the scenes. It appears that Trek is now demanding stores to carry 80% Trek for a shop to be able to call themselves a Trek Dealer and must carry 60% Trek for a shop to be able to sell Trek bikes at all or even to get support. I am guessing rather than Trek cutting off my shop at the waist for not complying, they are making things unpleasant for the owner to try and get him to comply or get out. Now let me just say that while I am not a big believer in conspiracy theories, something just smells bad here.

CX, I don't know the history of your shop, but am I right that before Trek bought the shop, it was already a 100% Trek/Bontrager shop?


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## kiwisimon

I got this reply from Trek....... and it seems like the OP has hit and run.


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## cxwrench

Lombard said:


> I cannot say I know what is actually going on behind the scenes. It appears that Trek is now demanding stores to carry 80% Trek for a shop to be able to call themselves a Trek Dealer and must carry 60% Trek for a shop to be able to sell Trek bikes at all or even to get support. I am guessing rather than Trek cutting off my shop at the waist for not complying, they are making things unpleasant for the owner to try and get him to comply or get out. Now let me just say that while I am not a big believer in conspiracy theories, something just smells bad here.
> 
> CX, I don't know the history of your shop, but am I right that before Trek bought the shop, it was already a 100% Trek/Bontrager shop?


No, we had a couple other brands of bikes. We can still carry different brands for certain things so we're not 100% Trek/Bontrager even though they own us. We had really good CS and warranty service for years before they bought us outright.


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## Steve B.

"I cannot say I know what is actually going on behind the scenes. It appears that Trek is now demanding stores to carry 80% Trek for a shop to be able to call themselves a Trek Dealer and must carry 60% Trek for a shop to be able to sell Trek bikes at all or even to get support.'

I cannot expect that this is true for all shops. There must be a required dollar amount generated or something similar, to allow a shop to skip these percentages that need to be Trek.

A very large LBS locally - Brands in Wantagh, NY which has been in business 60 year or better, lists 19 different brands of bicycles such as Specialized, Cannondale, GT, Giant etc.... all major Trek competitors. I cannot expect that this LBS will meet those percentages of Trek vs. other brands sold. This shop in particular is so big that I might assume that it's in Treks interest to be represented here and that there is likely a different agreement in place.


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## GKSki

BCSaltchucker said:


> what a shggty company. i'm still ticked that they killed Klein though too.


Don't forget what they did to Lemond.


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## Lombard

Steve B. said:


> "I cannot say I know what is actually going on behind the scenes. It appears that Trek is now demanding stores to carry 80% Trek for a shop to be able to call themselves a Trek Dealer and must carry 60% Trek for a shop to be able to sell Trek bikes at all or even to get support.'
> 
> I cannot expect that this is true for all shops. There must be a required dollar amount generated or something similar, to allow a shop to skip these percentages that need to be Trek.
> 
> A very large LBS locally - Brands in Wantagh, NY which has been in business 60 year or better, lists 19 different brands of bicycles such as Specialized, Cannondale, GT, Giant etc.... all major Trek competitors. I cannot expect that this LBS will meet those percentages of Trek vs. other brands sold. This shop in particular is so big that I might assume that it's in Treks interest to be represented here and that there is likely a different agreement in place.


My thought hearing this is that everything is negotiable. My shop is small, but very busy and popular, so they do quite a volume as far as repairs, but probably don't sell as many bikes as bigger shops.


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## PoorInRichfield

Szlmdm said:


> They submitted a warranty claim to Trek but it was denied as a lack of maintenance issue as opposed to a manufacturing defect. LBS says the options are order new frame (which will entail replacing the brakes as the design has changed and cost $1500) or buy a new bike.


I've seen barely ridden Domane 5.2's on Craigslist for about $1,500... if I didn't already have one, I would've bought them! Anyway, from Trek's perspective, they have no idea what was poured on the Iso Decoupler and under "normal conditions", it doesn't seize-up. I'm not saying you did anything wrong, but perhaps the water you wash your bike with or your sweat is unusually corrosive. A warranty certainly won't protect everyone from everything. I personally have had great success with Trek warranties from my LBS... they even replaced a mountain bike wheel that I specifically told them was damaged in an accident :blush2:



Fredrico said:


> Do those things actually improve the ride, or just soften it up? If so, is that good or bad? Is the tradeoff worth it?


I also have a Domane 5.2 and I'd say the ride between a regular road bike and a Domane is like being hit with a regular hammer versus a rubber mallet  It doesn't turn every ride into a plush, pillowy dream, but certainly takes the edge off of a normal road bike. I love my Domane and would easily buy another one.


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## [email protected]

Hey @Szlmdm, if you haven't had a chance to call into our warranty department, I would call 1 (800) 585-8735. Sometimes details from the shop's claim entry might not depict the issue where the warranty team can properly grasp the problem. We're always willing to chat about it on the phone, just get your claim number from the shop (if possible) so that the warranty team can quickly pull up the information!


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## 202cycle

cxwrench said:


> This may be the case w/ your shop but I can say w/o a doubt that they have been exactly the opposite w/ us and that started well before they bought our stores. I've told numerous customers that I'd start a warranty claim but I was 99% sure it would be denied for whatever reason and then Trek approved it.
> 
> I've seen LOTS of bearings corroded and stuck in frames and I've always managed to get them out. Bottom bracket, headset bearings that people have sweated on every day on the trainer. You try to remove them and the bearing comes apart leaving the outer race stuck in the frame. There is ALWAYS a way to get them out.


Right? I've always got them out one way or another without damaging the frame. I will say that here in the humid south, I see a lot of really bad IsoSpeed assemblies.

Note to all IsoSpeed owners. Disregard that maintenance recommendation from Trek and have that thing checked out at least once a year.


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## davesupra

Can the OP post up a pic of the decoupler in question?


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## [email protected]

202cycle said:


> have that thing checked out at least once a year.


I do agree with this. It is very easy to pop off the cover without tools. Then you can visually check. If you ride your bike a lot, it's nice to have new bearings and it doesn't hurt to change them early!


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## Fredrico

cxwrench said:


> Head tube angle alone does not dictate handling characteristics. Not even close.


Now you have to explain why standard road bikes aren't coming out with 74-75 degree head tubes anymore.  Wheel bases the same; seat tube angles the same; head tubes slackened toward "understeer." I think manufacturers are trying to avoid liability claims.


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## kiwisimon

Hey Mitch, good on you for reaching out to the OP.


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## Steve B.

kiwisimon said:


> Hey Mitch, good on you for reaching out to the OP.


My thought too.


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## Szlmdm

UPDATE:
Thanks to the many that offered helpful advice. I did take the reference page from the Service Manual back to the LBS. They contacted their regional rep from Trek and they have now agreed to replace the frame with a new one or apply the frame replacement price to a new purchase. The downside with the replacement frame is that by the time we replace brakes, seat post (both due to new design) and consumables such as cassette, chain, cables, etc. plus labor it will be $800. The upside is I will have pretty much a new bike! I am also exploring upgrading to a new disk version so I haven't yet made the decision but will close in on that soon. In the end, the LBS went back to bat for me and Trek did the right thing. Again, thanks for the advice provided.


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## Szlmdm

Thanks Mitch. It appears that we have it worked out. After further review Trek is going to replace the frame.


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## PoorInRichfield

Woohoo! So you'd get one of the new frames with the front and rear ISO decouplers? I'd do that for $800.

As for the disc brakes, make sure you price-out how much the brake levers cost... Ultegra brake levers with hydraulic brakes are $$$$. Not saying you shouldn't got that route, just make sure your budget can handle it.


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## [email protected]

Szlmdm said:


> Thanks Mitch. It appears that we have it worked out. After further review Trek is going to replace the frame.


I'm happy to hear it worked out! There is a great group of people on these forums, so good on everyone for providing assistance!


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## deadleg

You are going to love the new ride. I went with disc and They are great. The ride with wide tires is awesome. Disc brakes cost more to maintain tho


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## Szlmdm

Don't have a pic and the frame is on its way back to Trek for analysis. On my 2015 version of the Domane the Isospeed decoupler is on the top tube about an inch from the seat post. You can see pics in the Trek service manual.


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## .je

Too bad they didn't recall this, they've recalled the Future Shock
Specialized recalls Future Shock steerer tube collar


Trek said:


> According to Specialized, the steerer tube collar on these Future Shock-equipped bikes is at risk of "stress corrosion cracking", which could lead to a sudden loss of steering control.


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## PoorInRichfield

.je said:


> Too bad they didn't recall this


You want Trek to spend hundreds of thousands of dollars on a recall because one bike had an issue?


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## Corey213

Szlmdm, post a picture of your new bike when you get it!


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## .je

PoorInRichfield said:


> You want Trek to spend hundreds of thousands of dollars on a recall because one bike had an issue?


me? I don't care it's not my bike
Trek? There's a precedent for exactly this sort of design flaw, so they should consider treating this and any other customers' complaint properly, before the need for another public recall or suit shows up.
Otherwise I'm just typing.


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## taodemon

.je said:


> me? I don't care it's not my bike
> Trek? There's a precedent for exactly this sort of design flaw, so they should consider treating this and any other customers' complaint properly, before the need for another public recall or suit shows up.
> Otherwise I'm just typing.


An issue with possible failures that cause loss of steering tend to be a lot more serious than one that reduces your ass comfort to that of riding one of the various brands that don't have an iso speed decoupler. This particular issue doesn't seem common or even serious in terms of rider safety and as such it would be a bad reason to start a recall for. If it was something happening on a large number of bikes or that could result in serious injury or death then yeah, start that recall.


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## BobinMtP

I have a 2015 Domane 5.9, nearly 4 yr old now with 21,000 miles. I bought it because my 1999 Trek 5200 has performed almost flawlessly for about 38,000 miles. My 2015 has been kept in a humidity controlled environment for its entire life and obsessively kept clean, although not routinely brought into a shop. I recently took it into the nearby Trek shop and was told that the corrosion of the isospeed assembly was so severe they could not remove the old isospeed parts to replace them. The recommendation was to have them strip all the components off and send the frame to Trek to _*try*_ to remove the pieces. If Trek broke the frame they would not be responsible and would only give me 20% off a new frame, which they would do even if I told them my bike fell off the car and got run over! After I submitted a scathing on-line review of the performance of Trek and the shop, it was suggested that I bring the bike to the other Trek shop in town, where they said they had dealt with the outer bearing race being corroded and stuck in the frame. They used a Dremel tool to cut it out a piece at a time. They were successful. The shop did not charge for their labor and submitted a claim to Trek for the replacement parts, quoting the Trek manual (pg 39...thanks for posting that critical piece of info!) which effectively said _don't lubricate the isospeed_.

My conclusion: Trek screwed up in several ways...poor choice of materials for the isospeed bearings, ridiculous advice saying there's no need to maintain the isospeed, irresponsible stewardship by recognizing that the corrosion issue exists but not notifying customers to bring the bike in for inspection to prevent extreme consequences. Kudos to the 2nd Trek shop who did handle the situation professionally and succeeded in resolving the problem.


----------



## Lombard

BobinMtP said:


> I have a 2015 Domane 5.9, nearly 4 yr old now with 21,000 miles. I bought it because my 1999 Trek 5200 has performed almost flawlessly for about 38,000 miles. My 2015 has been kept in a humidity controlled environment for its entire life and obsessively kept clean, although not routinely brought into a shop. I recently took it into the nearby Trek shop and was told that the corrosion of the isospeed assembly was so severe they could not remove the old isospeed parts to replace them. The recommendation was to have them strip all the components off and send the frame to Trek to _*try*_ to remove the pieces. If Trek broke the frame they would not be responsible and would only give me 20% off a new frame, which they would do even if I told them my bike fell off the car and got run over! After I submitted a scathing on-line review of the performance of Trek and the shop, it was suggested that I bring the bike to the other Trek shop in town, where they said they had dealt with the outer bearing race being corroded and stuck in the frame. They used a Dremel tool to cut it out a piece at a time. They were successful. The shop did not charge for their labor and submitted a claim to Trek for the replacement parts, quoting the Trek manual (pg 39...thanks for posting that critical piece of info!) which effectively said _don't lubricate the isospeed_.
> 
> My conclusion: Trek screwed up in several ways...poor choice of materials for the isospeed bearings, ridiculous advice saying there's no need to maintain the isospeed, irresponsible stewardship by recognizing that the corrosion issue exists but not notifying customers to bring the bike in for inspection to prevent extreme consequences. Kudos to the 2nd Trek shop who did handle the situation professionally and succeeded in resolving the problem.


Another example of Trek Fail.
2nd Shop +1.


----------



## Herbieuk

I thought I'd mention a problem I currently have with my Domane SLR7. I took it for a service and they found that the hole in the seatpost where the Isospeed pivot fits had worn and was oval. The shop mechanic (a Trek only dealer) tells me he's never seen this before and as Trek don't supply just the seatpost he said I might need a new frame. Fortunately another SLR had come in at the same time with a broken chainstay so they have fitted the seatpost from that - at no cost.
Although I'm happy with the outcome, I think it should have been a new frame under warranty.


----------



## PBL450

So, I have purchased 2 Trek bikes. My mtb and my daughter’s commuter. I have been very happy with my local Trek dealer and both bikes. I have not had a warranty issue. This thread makes me less, not more, comfortable about working with the company. I have confidence in my local shop, but this post gives me pause. Do I need to blow up on social media to get my warranty honored? I’m thinking I may have made my last Trek purchase. Go ahead and be Specialized. Just go without me.


----------



## bradkay

Herbieuk said:


> I thought I'd mention a problem I currently have with my Domane SLR7. I took it for a service and they found that the hole in the seatpost where the Isospeed pivot fits had worn and was oval. The shop mechanic (a Trek only dealer) tells me he's never seen this before and as Trek don't supply just the seatpost he said I might need a new frame. Fortunately another SLR had come in at the same time with a broken chainstay so they have fitted the seatpost from that - at no cost.
> Although I'm happy with the outcome, I think it should have been a new frame under warranty.


Okay, this is a very misleading post. The IsoSpeed pivot is not in the seat post at all - it is in the seat tube, which cannot be replaced as it is an integral part of the frame. You had a problem with the seat mast cap, which has nothing to do with the IsoSpeed design as it is also used on the Emonda. There is no way that replacing a seat mast cap could "fix" an ovalized pivot hole in the seat tube.


----------



## [email protected]

PBL450 said:


> So, I have purchased 2 Trek bikes. My mtb and my daughter’s commuter. I have been very happy with my local Trek dealer and both bikes. I have not had a warranty issue. This thread makes me less, not more, comfortable about working with the company. I have confidence in my local shop, but this post gives me pause. Do I need to blow up on social media to get my warranty honored? I’m thinking I may have made my last Trek purchase. Go ahead and be Specialized. Just go without me.


Absolutely not the case - you shouldn't have to jump through hoops to get help from us ever. We have a great warranty team in place that is always an email or phone call away for those who prefer to speak with them and they back our retail network by offering their full support. We try to make a warranty claim as painless as possible without having to jump through hoops. All you ever need to do is bring your bike into your local Trek dealer and they will take it from there. If you ever had questions regarding a claim, our team would be happy to chat!


----------



## [email protected]

Herbieuk said:


> I thought I'd mention a problem I currently have with my Domane SLR7. I took it for a service and they found that the hole in the seatpost where the Isospeed pivot fits had worn and was oval. The shop mechanic (a Trek only dealer) tells me he's never seen this before and as Trek don't supply just the seatpost he said I might need a new frame. Fortunately another SLR had come in at the same time with a broken chainstay so they have fitted the seatpost from that - at no cost.
> Although I'm happy with the outcome, I think it should have been a new frame under warranty.



Happy to hear that your bike was able to get fixed properly! In some cases with warranty, we do look at a replacement frame if needed, but luckily that part was available to give you the quickest possible turnaround time it seems.


----------



## slogfester

Marc said:


> And I quote:
> 
> "*The IsoSpeed mechanism is designed to last the lifetime of the bicycle without service. Do not lubricate it.* Keep it clean with water and soft cloth. If the mechanism makes noise or exhibits lateral play, the design allows easy replacement of the mechanism. Take your bicycle to your retailer for service"
> 
> 
> Pg 39: https://trek.scene7.com/is/content/...Library/Bike OM_withWeightsAddendum_en-US.pdf accessed via: https://www.trekbikes.com/us/en_US/manuals/
> 
> Bold emphasis mine. I'd pick a bone with them. Basically reads "don't mess with it until something is wrong with it--then we'll fix it". Which is exactly what the OP did, and Trek ain't doing.


I have been watching this thread for some time because I too am having problems with what I strongly suspect are the front and rear isospeed decouplers on my 2017 Domane SLR7. And I finally got admitted to the forum 

I am surprised that Trek say (about the isospeed decoupler) '... without service. Do not lubricate it.' because the very first point of the assembly instructions for the (rear) isospeed in the service manual (pg. 4) states:

'1. Apply grease to the bores of the seat mast as well as the bores on the frame.'

So we have a unit that moves, has bearings, takes heavy loads and requires grease. That normally means it attracts dirt, needs cleaning/servicing and eventually wears out?

My front isospeed decoupler started to develop after c. 1 year / 7 000 km a clunk under quick heavy braking as if the bearings were re-seating themselves. Tightening the compression plug and top cap to the recommended torque does not fix it so I think it needs complete disassembly, inspection and service?

I won't be taking it to my Trek dealer because they went bust and I have given up on others in my area of Australia due to past poor servicing.

So the advise from forum members would be warmly welcomed.

Apart from reversing the assembly instructions, are there any service manuals for the front decouplers?

Many thanks


----------



## Mtngoat

An old discussion rises again...
I'm reading this because I too have a 2015 Domane 5.2 with a bunch of thousands of miles on it and I very much love it. I also have concerns about the decoupler, but there's a caveat: I bought mine as a private transaction from someone who put ~250 miles on it and wasn't in to it. My gain.

But here's the thing, before I made this purchase I visited three Trek dealers in my immediate area (Upstate NY) and contacted a fourth through their web page. I was ready to buy and very interested in this bike. And in all but the fourth I was ignored to insulted. The fourth was interested in a deal but they're a 3 hour drive away which kinda made that a problem. I've documented my encounters elsewhere on the web and named names so I won't go into the gory details, but in a previous life I wrenched in shops, some pretty high profile, to support my racing, touring and commuting, years ago. I know how not to be a dick.

(One time I was stumped by a shifting issue and made an appointment with a Trek dealer in Saratoga, NY and on my arrival was treated to 20 minutes with a tech who clearly was not interested in helping, or being nice at all, and clearly didn't know how to adjust a B screw and seemed fixated on castigating me for using Jagwire cables.)

So I'm reviving this post because it's a pretty specific technical question and I didn't want to have some great info duplicated, and I see there are some Trek people reading. I'm able to replace this assembly myself but don't know how to get the parts. Is it possible? At one point I needed to replace the cable guide that exits the head tube and that turned into an US$17.00 ordeal, with the aforementioned shop. No interest in stepping foot in there again.

Thanks in advance.


----------



## Peter P.

I wouldn't be surprised if Trek dealers refuse to sell you the parts and require you to drop the bike off for the shop to repair.

Keep us informed on your progress.


----------



## Srode

If you post it in the Trek forum you will get a better response I think, including the part number.


----------



## Mtngoat

Srode said:


> If you post it in the Trek forum you will get a better response I think, including the part number.


I normally would but since the moderators choose to leave this here, and as I said, I preferred to keep this fairly specific concern tied to one discussion for anyone else searching on it.

If I knew the part number that definitely would be useful information to search on. I can only find a couple minor references online to a "Boone" decoupler which is spotty in availability and unknown if it fits a 2015 Domane.


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## JSR

The Trek website is a frustrating place.

This looks like the Boone part you mentioned. https://www.trekbikes.com/us/en_US/...d-internal-parts-kit/p/12844/?colorCode=black

I post it because the text invites you to contact their customer service for compatibility details. Good luck.


----------



## ivanthetrble

This is the main reason I bought a non-Trek bike recently. Loved LeMond Racing cycles and the line was pretty much killed because of the Greg/Lance thing.........and I think we all know who ended up being the bad guy in that fight.


----------



## MDM

ivanthetrble said:


> This is the main reason I bought a non-Trek bike recently. Loved LeMond Racing cycles and the line was pretty much killed because of the Greg/Lance thing.........and I think we all know who ended up being the bad guy in that fight.


It was inevitable anyway. Trek also killed off Klein, Gary Fisher, and Bontrager became just components.


----------



## cxwrench

MDM said:


> It was inevitable anyway. Trek also killed off Klein, Gary Fisher, and Bontrager became just components.


'Just' components? While I agree it was inevitable it's a HUGE brand that does millions and millions of dollars.


----------



## DaveG

cxwrench said:


> 'Just' components? While I agree it was inevitable it's a HUGE brand that does millions and millions of dollars.


True, but its the only option you have in many Trek-controlled shops. It's not just winning on its own merits


----------



## rudge66

isn't this the tread I first use the expression noodlizer?


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## MDM

cxwrench said:


> 'Just' components? While I agree it was inevitable it's a HUGE brand that does millions and millions of dollars.


It's just a house brand, used to be called Matrix. Bontrager used to make bicycles before Trek bought them.


----------



## pmf

DaveG said:


> True, but its the only option you have in many Trek-controlled shops. It's not just winning on its own merits


Hasn't this always been Trek's business model? Matrix rims, then Rolf wheels, now Bontrager parts. Didn't these once independent companies get sucked in and taken over by Trek? Can someone even buy Bontrager parts on the open market?


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## Coolhand

pmf said:


> Hasn't this always been Trek's business model? Matrix rims, then Rolf wheels, now Bontrager parts. Didn't these once independent companies get sucked in and taken over by Trek? Can someone even buy Bontrager parts on the open market?


Lots of them available on the Trek website. The wheels, shoes and helmets are favorites of mine.


----------



## DaveG

Coolhand said:


> Lots of them available on the Trek website. The wheels, shoes and helmets are favorites of mine.


I don't think that is what he meant by "open market". Can you buy a Bontrager part from a store that is not a Trek store? I think the answer is no


----------



## pmf

Coolhand said:


> Lots of them available on the Trek website. The wheels, shoes and helmets are favorites of mine.


OK, let me rephrase that .... can someone buy Bontrager merchandise from anyone except Trek? Is it exclusively sold by Trek? And at Trek bike shops?


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## ogre

pmf said:


> OK, let me rephrase that .... can someone buy Bontrager merchandise from anyone except Trek? Is it exclusively sold by Trek? And at Trek bike shops?


Bontrager products are now being sold at REI.


----------



## Lombard

Srode said:


> If you post it in the Trek forum you will get a better response I think, including the part number.


Probably not. The manufacturer forums are all but dead.


----------



## n2deep

PoorInRichfield said:


> I've seen barely ridden Domane 5.2's on Craigslist for about $1,500... if I didn't already have one, I would've bought them! Anyway, from Trek's perspective, they have no idea what was poured on the Iso Decoupler and under "normal conditions", it doesn't seize-up. I'm not saying you did anything wrong, but perhaps the water you wash your bike with or your sweat is unusually corrosive. A warranty certainly won't protect everyone from everything. I personally have had great success with Trek warranties from my LBS... they even replaced a mountain bike wheel that I specifically told them was damaged in an accident :blush2:
> 
> 
> I also have a Domane 5.2 and I'd say the ride between a regular road bike and a Domane is like being hit with a regular hammer versus a rubber mallet  It doesn't turn every ride into a plush, pillowy dream, but certainly takes the edge off of a normal road bike. I love my Domane and would easily buy another one.


I own a Domane SLR 6, great ride. I witnessed our local trek bike shop warranty older carbon frames that were questionable at best. I think Trek is a good company and will stand behind any reasonable claim.


----------



## n2deep

DaveG said:


> I don't think that is what he meant by "open market". Can you buy a Bontrager part from a store that is not a Trek store? I think the answer is no


This might be slightly inappropriate but I always thought Bontrager was Chinese for I screwed another American 😀


----------



## sasquatch16

*Isospeed Maintenance*

Is there a consensus as to how often and how much maintenance you should do for teh Isospeed decoupler. Will taking it completely apart and relubing wear out the bearing bores?


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## GDTRFB

sasquatch16 said:


> Is there a consensus as to how often and how much maintenance you should do for teh Isospeed decoupler. Will taking it completely apart and relubing wear out the bearing bores?


AFAIK there isn't a maintenance schedule for the Isospeed decoupler.
My 2014 P1 Domane has ~35,000 miles on it, and the bearing looks clean.
The seat tube still flexes as it should.


----------



## upstateSC-rider

GDTRFB said:


> AFAIK there isn't a maintenance schedule for the Isospeed decoupler.
> My 2014 P1 Domane has ~35,000 miles on it, and the bearing looks clean.
> The seat tube still flexes as it should.


I've been on group rides and races watching how the seat tube flexes whilst in a paceline...Pretty amazing, would love to test ride one some day.


----------



## GDTRFB

upstateSC-rider said:


> I've been on group rides and races watching how the seat tube flexes whilst in a paceline...Pretty amazing, would love to test ride one some day.


I'm on a first generation that can't be adjusted. The frame is a 52cm, and I weigh 148 lbs, so it probably doesn't flex too much.
I don't actually feel it flex, but I do feel the difference when I'm on my 10-yr old Madone.


I may try one of the newer versions soon.


----------



## Devastazione

ogre said:


> Bontrager products are now being sold at REI.


Are you serious ? Askig for real,I haven't stepped into REI in 6 years now.


----------



## bobf

FWIW, the bearing size in the Domane rear isospeed decoupler was 6800 for several years. I found the size in a 2017 service manual and it fits my 2013. Dunno whether it changed after that.


----------



## ogre

Devastazione said:


> Are you serious ? Askig for real,I haven't stepped into REI in 6 years now.


Yep, at least in my town.


----------



## pduncanj

I used to wrench at shops years ago and am a keen rider doing 12-15,000 km a year in the mountains of Switzerland. I've owned a Domane SL7 2017, a Spec Roubaix, a Felt VR2, and various other steel and Ti bikes. I have had serious back pain issues for many years and have tried various 'ride-calming' devices in attempts to improve that. Here's my take: all these proprietary devices are troublesome, create reliability issues, and add unnecessary complexity. 

I believe the main factor driving manufacturers to develop such systems is product differentiation / marketing. 

My Domane currently has seized rear isospeed bearings and they won't come out. I will have to use a Dremel, as the force required would otherwise risk damaging the frame. 

The rear Isospeed system works really well, when it works. But other more straightforward solutions exist. On one bike I have used an Ergon CF3 seatpost - a simple elegant solution that works at least as well as Isospeed, and can easily be serviced or replaced. On another bike I have a Syntace P6 CARBON HIFLEX post. This post has zero moving parts - it just flexes a lot. Works brilliantly. Nothing to go wrong. A Vybe suspension post wasn't as good. Beyond this, there are the options of wider tyres / tubeless / lower pressures / latex tubes / tyres with more 'souplesse' (the latest Schwalbe Pro One is a revelation). 

Front Isospeed: the difference is barely perceptible, if at all. Just more stuff to go wrong. Spec Future Shock: already had a recall for very dangerous fault. I haven't yet used it but I think the Redshift ShockStop stem is likely to do the same job, again with less complexity, more reliability etc.


----------



## PoorInRichfield

pduncanj said:


> Front Isospeed: the difference is barely perceptible, if at all. Just more stuff to go wrong.


I liken ISO Speed decouplers as the difference between being hit with a metal hammer vs a rubber mallet. Neither is comfortable, but I'll take the latter. Where I live in the Midwest, roads are subject to freeze-thaw cycles and are often in horrible condition. I've spent a lifetime riding rigid race bikes on these roads and my body took the toll from absorbing the road shock almost directly, short of the rock hard tires taking some of the hit. After switching to a Domane in 2015, I'm a believer (and bought another one last year). The ISO Speed decoupler doesn't make the road into a fluffy marshmallow, but as the marketing hype suggests, I typically finish my rides feeling considerably less "beat up". It is hard to notice the ISO Speed decoupler and that's the point... if it was super flexy and squishy, everyone would hate it. It does it's job in a nearly undetectable fashion... taking the edge off of all the small vibrations over one's ride. 

I'm not sure why or how the mechanism would seize-up unless one constantly rides in harsh conditions (rain/snow) and washes the bike a lot which will force dirt into the ISO Decoupler. I've had no such seizing issues.


----------



## tlg

pduncanj said:


> I used to wrench at shops years ago and am a keen rider doing 12-15,000 km a year in the mountains of Switzerland.
> 
> 
> My Domane currently has seized rear isospeed bearings and they won't come out. I will have to use a Dremel, as the force required would otherwise risk damaging the frame.


Have you ever performed maintenance on it? It's just a set of sealed cartridge bearings. No different than a standard pivot on a full suspension mountain bike. Or a BB.










Things often ignored become future problems. - Cycling Solutions


There are many things to pay attention to when maintaining a bicycle. Most people in my experience do not pay close enough attention to some of the little things that can make a big difference. Most “tune ups” (I hate that term) cover the main parts of the bicycle. Things like wheel bearings and...



cyclingsolutions.net




My “rule of thumb” is if the rotary dremel tool needs to be used on your bike for any reason, you have ignored that part for too long. 

Take for instance the Trek Domane frames and the IsoSpeed feature. These are a suspension bearing built into the frame of a road bike. 
Neglecting this for just a couple of seasons can cause damage to bearings and pivot bolt like seen here. If let go long enough it can do irreversible damage to the frame and be the premature end to an otherwise beautiful riding bicycle. More moving parts requires more frequent maintenance. If you are a “prodigious sweater” or ride in inclimate weather more often, then your service intervals need to be adjusted to keep you equipment in working order. Perhaps more importantly be sure to get your rigs into the hands of a professional mechanic that know not only what they are looking at but how to do the service required. This will lengthen the life span of the bike and heighten your enjoyment while you are riding it.


----------



## pduncanj

tlg said:


> Have you ever performed maintenance on it? It's just a set of sealed cartridge bearings. No different than a standard pivot on a full suspension mountain bike. Or a BB.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Things often ignored become future problems. - Cycling Solutions
> 
> 
> There are many things to pay attention to when maintaining a bicycle. Most people in my experience do not pay close enough attention to some of the little things that can make a big difference. Most “tune ups” (I hate that term) cover the main parts of the bicycle. Things like wheel bearings and...
> 
> 
> 
> cyclingsolutions.net
> 
> 
> 
> 
> My “rule of thumb” is if the rotary dremel tool needs to be used on your bike for any reason, you have ignored that part for too long.
> 
> Take for instance the Trek Domane frames and the IsoSpeed feature. These are a suspension bearing built into the frame of a road bike.
> Neglecting this for just a couple of seasons can cause damage to bearings and pivot bolt like seen here. If let go long enough it can do irreversible damage to the frame and be the premature end to an otherwise beautiful riding bicycle. More moving parts requires more frequent maintenance. If you are a “prodigious sweater” or ride in inclimate weather more often, then your service intervals need to be adjusted to keep you equipment in working order. Perhaps more importantly be sure to get your rigs into the hands of a professional mechanic that know not only what they are looking at but how to do the service required. This will lengthen the life span of the bike and heighten your enjoyment while you are riding it.


I refer you to the earlier posts in this string, quoting Trek's own advice that the bearings should never need service or replacement. I worked as a professional mechanic for several years. I know a dremel will be needed, or I will risk damaging the frame. I already applied what I consider to be the maximum safe force. Even if such maintenance was designed to be needed at frequent intervals, then that is indicative of poor design.


----------



## pduncanj

PoorInRichfield said:


> I liken ISO Speed decouplers as the difference between being hit with a metal hammer vs a rubber mallet. Neither is comfortable, but I'll take the latter. Where I live in the Midwest, roads are subject to freeze-thaw cycles and are often in horrible condition. I've spent a lifetime riding rigid race bikes on these roads and my body took the toll from absorbing the road shock almost directly, short of the rock hard tires taking some of the hit. After switching to a Domane in 2015, I'm a believer (and bought another one last year). The ISO Speed decoupler doesn't make the road into a fluffy marshmallow, but as the marketing hype suggests, I typically finish my rides feeling considerably less "beat up". It is hard to notice the ISO Speed decoupler and that's the point... if it was super flexy and squishy, everyone would hate it. It does it's job in a nearly undetectable fashion... taking the edge off of all the small vibrations over one's ride.
> 
> I'm not sure why or how the mechanism would seize-up unless one constantly rides in harsh conditions (rain/snow) and washes the bike a lot which will force dirt into the ISO Decoupler. I've had no such seizing issues.


What I said was: "The rear Isospeed system works really well, when it works. ..... Front Isospeed: the difference is barely perceptible, if at all." I stand by that. And if you consider the mechanics / physics of front vs rear Isospeed, it's pretty apparent that the front won't have much effect.


----------



## tlg

pduncanj said:


> I refer you to the earlier posts in this string, quoting Trek's own advice that the bearings should never need service or replacement. I worked as a professional mechanic for several years. I know a dremel will be needed, or I will risk damaging the frame.


If you think that is the case and you did nothing wrong, why wouldn't you take it to Trek to fix?
Trek frames have lifetime warranties.

Makes no sense to take a dremel to it.







Isospeed | Trek Bikes


Saddle up with IsoSpeed technology to spin away with top-speed performance and ride-smoothing comfort. IsoSpeed is proven to perform on the road, trail, and beyond.




www.trekbikes.com




IsoSpeed rides with the power transfer and handling characteristics of a traditional carbon frame but with noticeably more compliance. There is no weight penalty, it requires little maintenance, and the frame is included in Trek’s industry-best limited lifetime warranty. If you can find a problem with IsoSpeed, we would love to hear it.


----------



## pduncanj

I bought the bike used ... Trek only cover the first owner. Interesting how bike manufacturers can get away with this - unlike cars


----------



## MDM

Isospeed looks like a maintenance headache with marginal gains in comfort. What's wrong with a wider tire and less pressure if you want more comfort? I have several Treks, but this Isospeed stuff would make me consider another brand of bike if I were in the market for one. Specialized Future Shock is probably a worse maintenance headache.


----------



## 202cycle

MDM said:


> Isospeed looks like a maintenance headache with marginal gains in comfort. What's wrong with a wider tire and less pressure if you want more comfort? I have several Treks, but this Isospeed stuff would make me consider another brand of bike if I were in the market for one. Specialized Future Shock is probably a worse maintenance headache.


It's actually quite simple. Basic care (disassembly, cleaning and lube) can be done in a matter of minutes.


----------



## tlg

202cycle said:


> It's actually quite simple. Basic care (disassembly, cleaning and lube) can be done in a matter of minutes.


It's so simple.... full suspension MTB's have 4 or more of the exact same pivots. And there are millions of full suspension MTB's.


----------



## FreeLunch

Szlmdm said:


> I have a question about the Isospeed decoupler on my 2015 Trek Domane 5.2. Recently I noticed that the decoupler was not dampening the ride like it used to. When I took it into the LBS for service they said they could just replace it and it would be fine. Once they got it apart they said that it had corroded most likely from sweat and had seized internally. When they tried to replace it they said that the outer race had "fused" to the frame and in order to get it out it will like break the frame and render it unusable. They submitted a warranty claim to Trek but it was denied as a lack of maintenance issue as opposed to a manufacturing defect. LBS says the options are order new frame (which will entail replacing the brakes as the design has changed and cost $1500) or buy a new bike. Now I will admit that I did nothing in terms of maintenance for the decoupler beyond washing regularly. So I took in a bike that at least I could ride to the LBS and now it is totally unrideable, useful only to harvest the components.
> Questions: Has anyone else had any issues with the Isospeed seizing and fusing to the frame? Should I pick up the bike and take it to another LBS for second opinion?
> Thanks


Thank you for creating this thread and for the others that have helped on this thread. I had the same issue and without this information, I know things wouldn't have turned out as well!


----------



## calum.h

pduncanj said:


> My Domane currently has seized rear isospeed bearings and they won't come out. I will have to use a Dremel, as the force required would otherwise risk damaging the frame.


I had this problem as well.

I think its mainly because of galvanic corrosion. Aluminium and Carbon Fibre are two materials that really should not be in contact with each other.

In my case, I used a bit of science. Aluminium shrinks when cold a significant amount more than carbon fibre does.

I was able to spray an air duster upside down to spray the liquid into the bearing and pivot tube - the liquid out of the compressed air duster is extremely cold - not quite liquid nitrogen cold but cold none the less! After hitting the bearings and pivot tube with the cold liquid a couple taps with a hammer and punch and i was able to knock the bearings out with no problems and replace the bearings, pivot tube and bolts with a new kit from Trek.


----------



## Lombard

calum.h said:


> I had this problem as well.
> 
> I think its mainly because of galvanic corrosion. Aluminium and Carbon Fibre are two materials that really should not be in contact with each other.
> 
> In my case, I used a bit of science. Aluminium shrinks when cold a significant amount more than carbon fibre does.
> 
> I was able to spray an air duster upside down to spray the liquid into the bearing and pivot tube - the liquid out of the compressed air duster is extremely cold - not quite liquid nitrogen cold but cold none the less! After hitting the bearings and pivot tube with the cold liquid a couple taps with a hammer and punch and i was able to knock the bearings out with no problems and replace the bearings, pivot tube and bolts with a new kit from Trek.
> View attachment 482451
> 
> View attachment 482450
> 
> View attachment 482449
> 
> View attachment 482448


Yikes! Where the heck do you ride for your bearings to look like that?


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## tlg

calum.h said:


> I think its mainly because of galvanic corrosion. Aluminium and Carbon Fibre are two materials that really should not be in contact with each other.


This is only an issue if the fibers themselves are in contact with aluminum. But 'carbon fiber' on a bike is encapsulated in epoxy, which is an insulator. So an item that is clamped like a seatpost or a bearing is electrically isolated from the fibers. Now if you drilled a hole through carbon fiber, then put an aluminum bolt through, you'd have problems.



> In my case, I used a bit of science. Aluminium shrinks when cold a significant amount more than carbon fibre does.


No not really. When an object is cooled, its length changes by an amount proportional to the original length and the change in temperature. So to change a significant amount you need a long starting length or a huge change in temperature. You have neither. The coefficient of thermal expansion for aluminum is 0.000012 in/in°F



> I was able to spray an air duster upside down to spray the liquid into the bearing and pivot tube - the liquid out of the compressed air duster is extremely cold - not quite liquid nitrogen cold but cold none the less!


Not even remotely close to liquid nitrogen. Compressed air cans (which isn't actually compressed air) can spray out as low as -60ºF. Liquid nitrogen −320 °F (5 times colder). 
There's not enough thermal load in a can to freeze a small amount of water. So how much temperature differential will it make in a steel bearing? You might make the surface of the bearing cold but you won't change the whole bearings temperature more than a few degrees. Which will only change its size a minuscule amount. 
















That's not galvanic corrosion. That's plain ole rust from a grossly neglected bearing.


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## calum.h

Lombard said:


> Yikes! Where the heck do you ride for your bearings to look like that?


I bought the bike from a guy who raced it for a couple seasons doing triathlons - on the sunshine coast, australia. Lots of salt air + water. He was not the most mechanically minded rider - i doubt he even knew there were bearings in there or even how to remove those caps to be honest!


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## calum.h

tlg said:


> This is only an issue if the fibers themselves are in contact with aluminum. But 'carbon fiber' on a bike is encapsulated in epoxy, which is an insulator. So an item that is clamped like a seatpost or a bearing is electrically isolated from the fibers. Now if you drilled a hole through carbon fiber, then put an aluminum bolt through, you'd have problems.


This is the issue. There is a hole in the seat post that has been drilled. It looks like bare CF to me. Perhaps you are not familiar with the isospeed system?

I am not talking about the bearing. Perhaps I was not clear. The pivot tube component is the item that was seized to the CF.

[/QUOTE]



tlg said:


> No not really. When an object is cooled, its length changes by an amount proportional to the original length and the change in temperature. So to change a significant amount you need a long starting length or a huge change in temperature. You have neither. The coefficient of thermal expansion for aluminum is 0.000012 in/in°F
> 
> Not even remotely close to liquid nitrogen. Compressed air cans (which isn't actually compressed air) can spray out as low as -60ºF. Liquid nitrogen −320 °F (5 times colder).
> There's not enough thermal load in a can to freeze a small amount of water. So how much temperature differential will it make in a steel bearing? You might make the surface of the bearing cold but you won't change the whole bearings temperature more than a few degrees. Which will only change its size a minuscule amount.


The aluminium shrinks more than the CF when you cool it - i dont have the can here, but i'm pretty sure its compressed co2 - either way -50 or -70c is pretty cold. CTE for CF is even lower than aluminium. Thats the point.

It creates space that you can then use to your advantage, it helps to break the bond

Real world example: Tried tapping it out before - it wouldn't budge, spray the shit out of it with the co2, then tap it and bam out she comes. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯









DragonPlate | Engineered Carbon Fiber Composite Sheets, Tubes and Structural Components | Made in USA


DragonPlate is a leading innovator in high performance carbon fiber-reinforced composites. From custom carbon fiber shapes, to products including tubes, sheets, plates and more, DragonPlate has a solution to fit you.



dragonplate.com





Seems to indicate that CF has a much much lower CTE than Aluminium... ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ 



tlg said:


> View attachment 482452
> 
> 
> That's not galvanic corrosion. That's plain ole rust from a grossly neglected bearing.


Way to pick the wrong picture... thats a steel bearing.....

The galvanic corrosion is between CF and Aluminium - the pivot tube.

The first picture in the post.

This one:










the movement of the seat post, may likely have rubbed away the paint on the tube leaving bare aluminium contacting the bare CF on the inside of the hole in the seat post.

Add in some salty air and water and you've got a pretty good recipe for it.

But thanks for you post it was super (un)helpful to everyone else in this thread and any future people who happen to have a similar issue and looking for a way to try to fix the problem. Kudos!


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## tlg

calum.h said:


> The aluminium shrinks more than the CF when you cool it - i dont have the can here, but i'm pretty sure its compressed co2 - either way -50 or -70c is pretty cold. CTE for CF is even lower than aluminium. Thats the point.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> DragonPlate | Engineered Carbon Fiber Composite Sheets, Tubes and Structural Components | Made in USA
> 
> 
> DragonPlate is a leading innovator in high performance carbon fiber-reinforced composites. From custom carbon fiber shapes, to products including tubes, sheets, plates and more, DragonPlate has a solution to fit you.
> 
> 
> 
> dragonplate.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Seems to indicate that CF has a much much lower CTE than Aluminium... ¯\_(ツ)_/¯


Doesn't matter if carbon fiber has no shrinkage. As I explained, you're not reducing the size of the aluminum with a little bit of 'compressed air'. There's not enough thermal energy in the can.

Calculating thermal expansion of materials (including carbon fiber) is what I use to do for a living.
But believe what you wish.



> It creates space that you can then use to your advantage, it helps to break the bond
> 
> Real world example: Tried tapping it out before - it wouldn't budge, spray the shit out of it with the co2, then tap it and bam out she comes. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯


You might have broke the bond by freezing the white corrosion schmutz. Or you may have lubricated it with refrigerant / condensation.
But you didn't shrink the pivot tube a create space.


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## Lombard

tlg said:


> That's not galvanic corrosion. That's plain ole rust from a *grossly neglected bearing*.


Neglected? More like *abused*.



calum.h said:


> I bought the bike from a guy who* raced it for a couple seasons doing triathlons* - on the sunshine coast, australia. Lots of salt air + water. He was not the most mechanically minded rider - i doubt he even knew there were bearings in there or even how to remove those caps to be honest!


It looks like he took it in the water and swam with it.


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## tlg

Lombard said:


> It looks like he took it in the water and swam with it.


He was saving time on the transitions. 🚴‍♂️🌊


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## davesupra

My question is did the folks with the problems notice any difference in your ride quality which caused you to take a look at the isospeed components? Or were you just doing regular maintenance and stumbled onto the isospeed issues? My isospeed seems to be working as it always has but now I'm wondering if it should take it apart and inspect it.


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## 202cycle

davesupra said:


> My question is did the folks with the problems notice any difference in your ride quality which caused you to take a look at the isospeed components? Or were you just doing regular maintenance and stumbled onto the isospeed issues? My isospeed seems to be working as it always has but now I'm wondering if it should take it apart and inspect it.


If I had an isospeed bike I would take that apart every six months depending on how much one rides in the winter.


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## calum.h

Lombard said:


> Neglected? More like *abused*.


Well yeah, but considering Trek don't tell you its a bearing- and they tell you it requires zero maintenance. You can se how some people don't even bother to pop the covers and look inside...


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## tlg

calum.h said:


> Well yeah, but considering Trek don't tell you its a bearing- and they tell you it requires zero maintenance. You can se how some people don't even bother to pop the covers and look inside...


Where does Trek say it requires zero maintenance?

Does Trek tell you there are bearings in your headset? Many riders don't know this and never inspect them.

According to the Trek Owners Manual
Maintenance Technological advances have made bicycles and bicycle parts more complex, and the pace of innovation is increasing. *It’s impossible for this manual to provide all the information required to properly repair and/or maintain every bicycle.* To help minimize the chances of an accident and possible injury, it’s critical that you have your bike shop perform any repair or maintenance not specifically described in this manual. Many variables, from your riding style to geographic location will determine your maintenance requirements. *The longer you neglect maintenance, the more it becomes critical. Your bike shop can help you decide your maintenance requirements.* 
Have your bike shop fully service your bicycle each year even if you did not ride your bicycle much. 
See the *Support section of trekbikes.com for a comprehensive maintenance schedule that includes inspections and service recommendations by distance and hours ridden*.





__





Bike Service and Repair | Trek Bikes


Retail service levels available at Trek stores and the details of what each package include.




www.trekbikes.com




100-hour Service
*The entire bike stripped, cleaned, lubed, and returned to new.
Every bolt, every bearing, every part.*


So there you go. If you ride 15mph, Trek says you should completely strip down your bike every 1500mi. 
Personally I think that's extreme. But if you don't agree with it, then you assume the responsibility to know what you're doing.


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## calum.h

fuck mate you’re a bit of a cunt hey

how about you read this thread from page 1 before commenting further? 

give yourself some context and background on the issues here and the problems people have experienced


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## tlg

calum.h said:


> fuck mate you’re a bit of a cunt hey
> 
> how about you read this thread from page 1 before commenting further?
> 
> give yourself some context and background on the issues here and the problems people have experienced


Fuck mate... why don't you read it? Because I've participated in it before you've even been a member here. Guess you were too lazy to read it all.
So who'd the cunt hey?

Why didn't you answer my question?
*Where does Trek say it requires zero maintenance?*

Oh, because you're butthurt that I gave you the exact answer directly from Trek. 

If you don't know how your bike works, take it to a professional. If you've gone longer than 100hrs (per Trek) without service, it's on you for not knowing what you're doing.


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## calum.h

read this thread
page 1
you’re the lazy one


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## tlg

calum.h said:


> read this thread
> page 1
> you’re the lazy one


Of for fucks sake. Again... I've read the whole thread. I've been participating in it since before you were even a member here.
Don't be ignorant.

Again... You said "they tell you it requires zero maintenance"
*Where does Trek say it requires zero maintenance?*

From page 1 (BTW It doesn't say what model year this manual is for or if it's still relevant)
"The IsoSpeed mechanism is designed to last the lifetime of the bicycle without service. Do not lubricate it. *Keep it clean with water and soft cloth. If the mechanism makes noise or exhibits lateral play, the design allows easy replacement of the mechanism.* Take your bicycle to your retailer for service"

Keeping it clean and inspecting it is maintenance.

You do understand the difference between maintenance and service.... right?

Right on Treks website
Trek IsoSpeed | Trek Bikes/
IsoSpeed rides with the power transfer and handling characteristics of a traditional carbon frame but with noticeably more compliance. There is no weight penalty,* it requires little maintenance*, and the frame is included in Trek’s industry-best limited lifetime warranty.


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## calum.h

now you are just being a troll 
piss off idiot


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## tlg

calum.h said:


> now you are just being a troll
> piss off idiot


You're the troll. I gave you the fckn answer directly from Trek. Now you're just butthurt and whining.

You said "they tell you it requires zero maintenance"
*Where does Trek say it requires zero maintenance?*

Do you understand the difference between maintenance and service?

If you don't want to support your claim, take your ball and go home.


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## PBL450

calum.h said:


> fuck mate you’re a bit of a cunt hey
> 
> how about you read this thread from page 1 before commenting further?
> 
> give yourself some context and background on the issues here and the problems people have experienced


WTF? What’s with the psycho azzhat reply? That came out of nowhere and is for no reason? Welcome to the forum? No go away. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Lombard

calum.h said:


> fuck mate you’re a bit of a cunt hey


Where do you go ranting off like this? Tlg and others are trying to help you and this is the response? At this point, you may as well get off the 'puter and take the bike into your local bike shop because nobody here wants to help someone with an attitude like this. Oh, word of advice, don't use this attitude with them.


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## 202cycle

Lombard said:


> Where do you go ranting off like this? Tlg and others are trying to help you and this is the response? At this point, you may as well get off the 'puter and take the bike into your local bike shop because nobody here wants to help someone with an attitude like this. Oh, word of advice, don't use this attitude with them.


yeah, the shop guys will tell you, oh sure, we'll have that ready in about 4 weeks.


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## Lombard

202cycle said:


> yeah, the shop guys will tell you, oh sure, we'll have that ready* in about 4 weeks*.


If you're lucky.


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## 202cycle

Lombard said:


> If you're lucky.


actually if someone I was trying to help called me a cunt, I might just punch his throat and throw his ass on the street.


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## Lombard

202cycle said:


> actually if someone I was trying to help called me a cunt, I might just punch his throat and throw his ass on the street.


Naaahh. I would just tell him to get the fvck out of my store and never come back.


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## ankyzop

I used to wrench at shops years ago and am a keen rider doing 12-15,000 km a year in the mountains of Switzerland. I've owned a Domane SL7 2017, a Spec Roubaix, a Felt VR2, and various other steel and Ti bikes. I have had serious back pain issues for many years and have tried various 'ride-calming' devices in attempts to improve that. Here's my take: all these proprietary devices are troublesome, create reliability issues, and add unnecessary complexity.


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## Lombard

ankyzop said:


> I used to wrench at shops years ago and am a keen rider doing 12-15,000 km a year in the mountains of Switzerland. I've owned a Domane SL7 2017, a Spec Roubaix, a Felt VR2, and various other steel and Ti bikes. I have had serious back pain issues for many years and have tried various 'ride-calming' devices in attempts to improve that. Here's my take: all these proprietary devices are troublesome, create reliability issues, and add unnecessary complexity.


In the end, if you're looking to soften the ride, there is no substitute for wider tires with lower pressures.


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## MDM

Lombard said:


> In the end, if you're looking to soften the ride, there is no substitute for wider tires with lower pressures.


+1 Isospeed is a gimmick.


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## Lombard

MDM said:


> +1 Isospeed is a gimmick.


There have been ride softening gimmicks for quite some time and none of them work. Remember Specialized's Zerts inserts?


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## MDM

Lombard said:


> There have been ride softening gimmicks for quite some time and none of them work. Remember Specialized's Zerts inserts?


A friend of mine has Isospeed on a hardtail mountain bike. He says it doesn't make any difference. I asked if it's functioning properly and he says it is, FWIW.


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