# i think i'm a roadie, but, i don't want to be these riders.



## bq_or_bust (Oct 27, 2007)

i've put over 2,200 miles thus far this year. the most i've ever ridden on a bicycle. i noticed more and more this self-entitlement or jerkish behavior by cyclists. prior to this, my endurance sport was marathon running where there wasn't these problems. i wanted to get some opinions.

i usually ride by myself. i treat it as it would make me stronger than someone drafting and the data i've collected is my "real" stats. i'm not fast. probably average 16 mph. i can average 18+ mph for 30 miles doing loops in a closed rolling hill park with a couple ascents. what i'm noticing more and more is that cyclist would just ride on your tail without asking; believing it's fine and never thinking about asking you first. 

a couple of weeks ago, i was cruising in a park (16-17 mph) and then suddenly noticed someone on my tail. i immediately slowed down. didn't work. restarted. he reattaches. moved to the side. didn't work. restarted. he reattaches. gave him a nasty glance. didn't work. finally, i pulled to the side of him and told him to get off my tail and that if he wants to draft behind someone, he should ask. he says "i've been riding with my club for 25 years...". he sprints forward and give me the hand wave, but, you know it's "f-u". wtf. so he believes that he is entitled to draft on anyone that is cycling?

a couple of days ago, i'm cruising (15-16 mph) on a mut. after passing this guy who was at a slower pace, he starts tailing me. once i noticed, it did the same things i said above. he tells me he wasn't tailing me. but, when you slow down and speed up in unison, then you're tailing me.

at the beginning of the year, i was riding in a park and this guy drafts on me for 7 miles (i think), ascending the big hill twice. 3 miles in, an older rider tagged on and followed. by mile 6 he told the free loader to take a pull. of course he really didn't.; jumped on my tail. after climbing the hill for the second time, i waved off since i had to recover. got some mojo back and sped up. i passed the free loader. climbing up the big hill i noticed he was competing with me to get to the top. classless...i'm slow. why do you want to compete with me?

while riding, i've notice too much rudeness. i just hope never to become like this.


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## JoelS (Aug 25, 2008)

Some people just have bad attitudes. Stay positive and don't sweat the small stuff.


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## MB1 (Jan 27, 2004)

Just be a person who rides a bike sometimes, it is a lot easier.

BTW anyone who wants to draft me uninvited gets a talking to right away. If they don't get a clue that I don't want them there it is time to stop for a minute.


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## klmmicro (Mar 23, 2011)

I usually do not care if someone starts tailing me. If they are annoying me, then I figure they are simply good incentive to hit it a little harder...which means a better training ride. If I cannot pull away and am bent on riding solo, I will stop and stretch my legs for a few. Only a few times have I had anyone actually stop with me.


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## Aggdaddy (Jun 18, 2010)

If someone drafts me and I'm not in a group ride mood, I'll test their legs. I'll just keep ramping up the speed and see if they can hold on. If they are still on my tail after I have ratched it up to about 24 or 25mph a few miles, then I'll pull to the left and let em pass and go back to my usual speed. 

Usually they give up before I get that high.


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## terry b (Jan 29, 2004)

The horror of unwanted wheelsuckers is a common theme in this forum. You'll get 3 answers - why does it bother you?, I hate it too, If you can't ride them off your wheel too bad for you. 

For the record, I'm with you - I prefer to ride alone and alone means alone. It doesn't mean someone sitting on my wheel unasked. I know it doesn't affect my riding, I know it's no big deal. But it's my ride and I want it to be the way I want it to be.

The best thing to do - stop pedaling and sit up. They'll get the message. If they don't, stop. Eventually it will sink in, you just have to create an environment where it's no fun for them.


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## T0mi (Mar 2, 2011)

Why do you care ?

Here in europe, everybody draft or is drafted without making any fuss about it. Is this a cultural problem ?


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## orange_julius (Jan 24, 2003)

T0mi said:


> Why do you care ?
> 
> Here in europe, everybody draft or is drafted without making any fuss about it. Is this a cultural problem ?


That's because you Europeans are socialist communists!

Just kidding .... !


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## Bill2 (Oct 14, 2007)

I'm slow enough that this hardly ever happens. People usually go right ahead and pass me. In the rare event someone is even slower than me, I don't mind them drafting. I figure they have bonked and are in limp-home mode, or recovering from a prolonged illness.


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## woodys737 (Dec 31, 2005)

I'm with the who cares if someone tags along group. I guess I know what I want to do when I ride and really don't care what others do as long as it doesn't hurt me. As far as the competition mentality of riders, I think it's gay but natural. As long as you are secure in your ability then it really shouldn't matter as it is not a race. If you want to race and be concerned about crossing the line first then race.

Bottom line though, is it's not worth getting worked up over. MUT's are freak shows so just go slow and let that sh!t go.


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## BlueWheels (Oct 17, 2008)

Why does it matter? I usually ask before I latch on to another rider, but I don't care when others don't ask me before they do. I ride my ride whether I am alone or have a tag. That means I go the speed I want to go and I ride the roads I want to ride. If you follow me, you don't get to have expectations about what is going to happen, but I'm not going to do anything to make you go away.

From the other side, I have definitely been out on the road and seen someone who appears to be a strong cyclist (especially if they just passed me) and I am curious whether I can keep up with them for an extended period. As I said before, I ask before latching on, but I like to follow just out of curiosity about my ability to match the other rider's. You should take it as a compliment that someone wants to tag along.


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## ekid (Oct 4, 2011)

WARNING! New user-Uzbekistan info desired!
I can't post- msg."5 posts required before you can post"
"Contact us" msg.- no reply.
What gives? I am supposed to hi-jack some strangers post??!


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## Peter P. (Dec 30, 2006)

1. Tell the offending rider to get off your wheel if they weren't invited. Before you DO anything, you have to at least voice yourself.

2. If they refuse and/or cop an attitude, you have several options.

The kindest is to stop and let them go.

Next is clearing your nose or farting a lot real close to them, if you're talented.

Last resort, a brake job.


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## albertodealcudia (Apr 2, 2005)

We have a rule in my club. There are about 7/10 of us in the ride and we say: If you want to ride with us stay at the front or at the rear... But don't mess up in the middle of the group. Here in Spain we haven't got that problems. If we Meet at the road the only thing we do is say goodbye when we split our ways... And nobody gets angry...


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## woodys737 (Dec 31, 2005)

Peter P. said:


> 1. Tell the offending rider to get off your wheel if they weren't invited. Before you DO anything, you have to at least voice yourself.
> 
> 2. If they refuse and/or cop an attitude, you have several options.
> 
> ...


Childish and totally unnecessary imo.


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## Oxtox (Aug 16, 2006)

unless there's a hellacious headwind, not sure why you'd need to draft someone who's only going 15-16 mph...

that said, this is just more weak-sister whining about roadie behavior...

the tiresome litany consists of: they didn't wave, they drafted me, they didn't let me draft on them, they don't like my saddle bag/knee-high socks/camelbak/earphones, etc etc etc...

if you're really that unnerved by someone on your six, take a couple of capsules of Rx-strength STFU and ride them off your wheel or pull over and stop for 10 seconds.


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## viciouscycle (Aug 22, 2009)

Ride them off or stop, failing at those 2 
1. Fart
2. Water over your shoulder 
3. Snot rockets as you pull to the right

.....pick one that works.


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## Straz85 (May 12, 2011)

I prefer they tell me because I don't want to get plowed over if I hit my brakes, and I guarantee you if someone does that to me, I will have words for them. If they ask me first, then it's fine. I'll probably even be nice and warn them about upcoming pot holes/storm drains, etc.


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## RickRandhawa (Jul 26, 2011)

Whenever I see someone on my tail...I usually turn, smile, and wave and motion for them to come by my side and then proceed to enjoy a nice convo while I bike. I've never had a single person be rude to me yet. 

People are generally nice and want to be liked, especially if you dont think of what they are doing as self-entitled or jerkish behavior....just sayin


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## Peanya (Jun 12, 2008)

Why be such a crybaby about it??? Calling someone a jerk just because they're riding behind you? Sounds like you need the attitude change. Do you slam on your brakes if someone gets behind you while driving your car? 
It's cycling, enjoy it and have fun.


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## JCavilia (Sep 12, 2005)

You say, "hey, I'm not really comfortable with somebody drafting close on me; would you mind just going ahead? I'm not that smooth a rider and sometimes I forget and brake suddenly, so it's not really safe for you back there. Have a good ride."


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## ricz (Jul 26, 2010)

*Just relax..and enjoy the ride*

I'm with the "who cares camp". I ride roughly 3K miles a year almost entirely on my own. I enjoy the solitude of riding on my own but occasionally get the overly competitive drafter. They don't bother me and they actually help me push harder. If I can't drop them, it reinforces that I have lots more work to do. Enjoy the inherent competitive nature of the sport and relax. Its not like someone cutting you off and flipping you the bird.


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## piston honda (Jun 18, 2011)

I think the whole drafting thing is ridiculous unless you are on the tour de france or something. Who wants to be 3 inches off some dude's wheel for hours on end when you could ride by yourself & enjoy the scenery. And yes, the roadies in my neck of the woods (westchester, ny) are serious snobs with entitlement attitudes that yell at cars while they are riding 5 people deep on the road.


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## MoPho (Jan 17, 2011)

Straz85 said:


> I prefer they tell me because I don't want to get plowed over if I hit my brakes, and I guarantee you if someone does that to me, I will have words for them. If they ask me first, then it's fine. I'll probably even be nice and warn them about upcoming pot holes/storm drains, etc.



So they should ask you if it's ok to suck your wheel before plowing into you, or should they ask if it's ok to plow into you? 





Personally, I've never had any trouble noticing when someone is on my wheel and I don't have a problem with it, I welcome it even


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## thechriswebb (Nov 21, 2008)

The competitive behavior from strangers encountered on a ride can be annoying sometimes. I was riding home after a long, hard ride and was set in my rhythm when a woman went flying past me. At first I thought "god, she is fast" but after she got about 100 meters ahead of me, she slowed down. I realized that when she saw me ahead of her, her competitive nature kicked in and she kicked hard to get around me. It wasn't a pace she could sustain though and I eventually caught back up to her. I was sort of "in the zone" after a hard ride and was moving along at a steady pace that was just right for me so since I wasn't changing my pace, I went to pass her when I caught up. Every time I tried to pass her though, she stood up and sprinted to stay ahead of me. It was very frustrating because I wanted to keep moving along at my steady pace but she was in my way and wouldn't let me ahead. I had no issue with her passing me if she was faster but she wasn't and she was impeding my pace. I didn't want to sit up and let her ride away because I felt like slowing my pace would throw my rhythm off. After a while, I decided fu*k it and started riding in her draft. She kept aggressively waving her hands at me like "get out of my draft" but I didn't know what else to do. If she wanted to ride in my draft after I passed her, that would have been fine if I didn't have to change my pace. I just rode her draft anyway until we got to the road where I turned off. I wondered what kind of story she told her friends after her ride about the jerk that rode her draft for about 15k or so.


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## krisdrum (Oct 29, 2007)

piston honda said:


> I think the whole drafting thing is ridiculous unless you are on the tour de france or something. Who wants to be 3 inches off some dude's wheel for hours on end when you could ride by yourself & enjoy the scenery. And yes, the roadies in my neck of the woods (westchester, ny) are serious snobs with entitlement attitudes that yell at cars while they are riding 5 people deep on the road.


Any time you want to hook up and ride, I'd be honored to prove you wrong on your perception of attitudes in our area.


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## Chico2000 (Jul 7, 2011)

Stopped washing my kit in August. Haven't had a wheel-sucka since.


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## jjcools (Jun 28, 2011)

I usually just ask if they want to pass, if not... I'm riding!


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## Harley-Dale (Sep 2, 2011)

Like you, I cruise at a low MPH pace until I rebuild my ability, after a long layoff from riding. But, if someone wants to draft me, I am okay with it. I prefer they stay a foot or two off my wheel so they dont wreck me tho, since I dont know thier skills as a rider. I dont mind riding with someone behind me otherwise.

I dont like to draft others because I want to ride my ride (unless I am in a group ride, of course). But, I have been known to see a rider off in the distance and have powered up to try and catch them, just for the challenge of an interval. I would either back off or pass them, depending on their speed. I never suck their wheel.

Dont worry too much about it--unless they are going to crash you, just ride your ride. They will either stay with you, or ride around you, or drop off. Just do your ride and dont sweat it.


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## mopartodd (Dec 1, 2010)

If somebody wants to sit behind me and smell my BO and get showered in my sweat and snot, they can have their fill provided they are safe.

Personally, I think you are over-reacting. Why not strike up a conversation rather than be confrontational about it.


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## MAS-SD (Jun 14, 2008)

This is one of my major pet peeves about cycling. The worst is when they trail you for 3 miles or so and then sprint by you and act like they're stronger. The whole point is to go clear your head...how can you do that with someone in your personal space you don't even know?!?!

I think it is a giant sense of entitlement that some cyclists have and it doesn't make any sense. Why are you even out there riding if you're going to glom on to someone that's stronger than you without an invite? Grow a pair and ride on your own.


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## JCavilia (Sep 12, 2005)

Straz85 said:


> I prefer they tell me because I don't want to get plowed over if I hit my brakes, and I guarantee you if someone does that to me, I will have words for them. If they ask me first, then it's fine. I'll probably even be nice and warn them about upcoming pot holes/storm drains, etc.


2 points:

-I have mirrors and use them, so I won't get surprised. I know if someone is back there. In fact, I usually know they're coming when they're half a block back, at least.

- Usually, you won't get "plowed over." The guy in back will go down, and the guy in front just wobbles a little. But I agree that's an unnecessary hazard we'd rather avoid.


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## loskaos (Apr 26, 2009)

I think i still qualify as a beginner and i ride at about 18-23 kph, if i ever draft behind anyone is to challenge myself and see if i can keep up.


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## draganM (Nov 27, 2001)

Peanya said:


> Why be such a crybaby about it??? Calling someone a jerk just because they're riding behind you? Sounds like you need the attitude change. Do you slam on your brakes if someone gets behind you while driving your car?
> It's cycling, enjoy it and have fun.


 Ditto, seems like a very petty thing to get all worked up about. I sometimes get stuck behind slower riders and sit there until it's safe to pass. A few times you could see the person getting all huffy-puffy. There's so many worse things on the road to get bent about.


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## JCavilia (Sep 12, 2005)

piston honda said:


> I think the whole drafting thing is ridiculous unless you are on the tour de france or something. Who wants to be 3 inches off some dude's wheel for hours on end when you could ride by yourself & enjoy the scenery. .


Because it's fun, sometimes. You go faster, and that's fun. Sometimes it's fun to go hard by yourself. Sometimes it's fun to ride easy by yourself and sit up and enjoy the scenery. Sometimes it's fun to ride easy side-by-side with a companion and chat about the scenery or whatever.

There are lots of ways to enjoy cycling. Just because one of them is not your thing (have you tried it?) does not make it "ridiculous."


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## Salsa_Lover (Jul 6, 2008)

T0mi said:


> Why do you care ?
> 
> Here in europe, everybody draft or is drafted without making any fuss about it.


This.

Also here everyone you cross on the road smiles at you and say hello with a head nod or with his/her eyes, everyone acknolwedges the salute and salute back.... no waving though, but it is so simple to do that nobody makes a fuss about... In America it seems to be a big deal.



T0mi said:


> Is this a cultural problem ?


Maybe americans are making their own version of the sport, like they did with cricket and called it baseball and with rugby calling theirs football and our football soccer ? Remember when they tried to change the "soccer" rules too ?


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## benInMA (Jan 22, 2004)

Just keep working, you only have to get to averaging about 18-19mph on moderately hilly terrain before 99% of the people who would act that way will be too slow to hang on your wheel. (Probably more like 20-21mph average if you're talking about flat parklike terrain)

Nobody ever sucks my wheel, and I'm lonely for it! I've only managed to strike up one good conversation with a random stranger roadie this entire season!


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## Argentius (Aug 26, 2004)

Sheesh.

Talking to people would fix just about everything.


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## dcorn (Sep 1, 2011)

I've had this happen a few times. I don't mind if someone is trailing me, but it'd be nice to get a little heads up. There have been times where I'll glance back and see someone RIGHT on my ass and it kinda startled me. Could have been unsafe for both of us. 

A few times it'll be a guy that will ride with me for miles and miles without even attempting to do a little work. That's when I just push harder until I drop them. Usually isn't too tough. I have had people switch back and forth with me, which is nice to get a small break after a while of riding by myself.

If I ever come up on someone who looks like a decent rider going a decent pace, I'll draft them for a bit and usually try to let them know I'm there if they don't notice. If they aren't going a breakneck speed, I'll also get in front after a bit and they can follow me and draft if they want. Works out well with seasoned riders it seems.


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## jaydub_u (Mar 16, 2009)

I truly couldn't care less if someone hooks up to my rear wheel. They wouldn't be drafting off you if they didn't consider you a good rider or a challenge for them. What is the harm anyway. Everyone that has ever drafted off of me has been a pretty nice person and thanked me for the pull and in a lot of cases have returned the favor. As kids, we always rode to keep up with the faster guy or maybe issued a little challenge, who could catch more air on a bump etc. We rode a bike because it was fun and or we made it fun. Have we become so elitist that we prefer not to meet new people or think that anytime someone invades our space, that it is equivilent to a threat or invasion? If it bothers you that much, do as others have said and just pull over and wait 10 or 15 seconds.


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## qatarbhoy (Aug 17, 2009)

It's a good opportunity to practise your peeing-while-on-the-bike technique, if being drafted bothers you.


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## tron (Jul 18, 2004)

Aggdaddy said:


> If someone drafts me and I'm not in a group ride mood, I'll test their legs. I'll just keep ramping up the speed and see if they can hold on. If they are still on my tail after I have ratched it up to about 24 or 25mph a few miles, then I'll pull to the left and let em pass and go back to my usual speed.
> 
> Usually they give up before I get that high.



Had this happen to me. I pulled up on some guy, let him know I was there and drafted for a bit. I pulled up and let him draft me, we then switched and he completely dusted me. Felt like an idiot.


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## rcjunkie3000 (Sep 5, 2009)

I live in a hilly area, I havent had that problem. On the climbs its me chasing rabbits but I keep my distance. When i get chased up hill the better. At the summit ill talk to the guys that drop me and I always tell them good push to the top. Most of the time they are friendly. i think riding flats is another story.

So when you encounter a stop light on the flats and the wheelsucker arrives at the light, do you let him go first?


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## JCavilia (Sep 12, 2005)

*Solution*



dcorn said:


> I've had this happen a few times. I don't mind if someone is trailing me, but it'd be nice to get a little heads up. There have been times where I'll glance back and see someone RIGHT on my ass and it kinda startled me. Could have been unsafe for both of us..












No surprises


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## finman50 (Mar 5, 2008)

You know after a long tough ride, it's nice to get a free pull home. I try to pay it forward and let people draft off of me as long as they want. There's no score board other than what's in your head. Sometimes the race is on and it's fun to burn them up. I don't ride to make other people happy that's their job. I DO try keep their safety and mine my top priority. But mistakes happen, I try to learn from it. Do what ever makes you happy.. From my experience of 30,000 miles I've passed, drafted, been drafted and only had a dozen people have a hissy fit. I blew them off and forgot about.


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## woodys737 (Dec 31, 2005)

JCavilia said:


> snip image...
> 
> No surprises


My Dad has one of those on his bike. I tried it for a ride just to see why all the old dudes in his group used them. I found them to be extremely ineffective at seeing traffic much further than a few seconds away. Also, I found it more dangerous looking down at the mirror rather than looking where I was going. Lastly, being mounted to the bike the vibrations make the view less degraded and hard to see much of anything. I ride with his group once a year or so and never say anything, but they would be much better served by focusing on what is front of them imho.


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## Wood Devil (Apr 30, 2011)

I've had other riders jump into my draft a few times. None of them ever alert me to their presence; I usually hear the banging gears and sound of gasping and turn back to see them trying to keep up. Not that I bother much, it's just that I tend to blow snot rockets and spit a lot. Which I try not to do when another rider is in close proximity.


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## Creakyknees (Sep 21, 2003)

Old racer tip: when you have an unwanted wheelsucker, steer thru the worst road trash, holes, cracks, water, etc. 

Since you're in front, you can pick a clean path and avoid the problems, but the sucker won't have time to react. Eventually they get tired of being sprayed by water or hitting holes.


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## The Weasel (Jul 20, 2006)

Ask their name. Then tell them you just had a sex change operation and have been dying to meet somebody interesting. Then slow down and say you wan to get a look at their ass. They'll move on quick.


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## kykr13 (Apr 12, 2008)

terry b said:


> The horror of unwanted wheelsuckers is a common theme in this forum. You'll get 3 answers - why does it bother you?, I hate it too, If you can't ride them off your wheel too bad for you.


Pretty accurate thread-forecast...


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## crazy03 (Sep 28, 2011)

Peanya said:


> Why be such a crybaby about it??? Calling someone a jerk just because they're riding behind you? Sounds like you need the attitude change. Do you slam on your brakes if someone gets behind you while driving your car? .


IMO, it's just like standing in a line and the guy behind you feels the need to stand two inches from you and you can almost feel him breathing. Personally, I find it very annoying and rude; it's a violation of personal space and I will say something to them every time. And yes, if I'm driving and there isn't much traffic and there's someone riding my a** for no good reason I'll give a quick tap on the brakes to let the person know that I'm not cool with his behavior. Again, just my opinion. :thumbsup:


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## Guest (Oct 6, 2011)

> My Dad has one of those on his bike. I tried it for a ride just to see why all the old dudes in his group used them. I found them to be extremely ineffective at seeing traffic much further than a few seconds away. Also, I found it more dangerous looking down at the mirror rather than looking where I was going. Lastly, being mounted to the bike the vibrations make the view less degraded and hard to see much of anything. I ride with his group once a year or so and never say anything, but they would be much better served by focusing on what is front of them imho.


Agreed. I've never found a bike mirror setup I've really liked yet. The helmet mounted ones don't work well for riding in multiple positions, or in low/tucked position -- I feel they'd be OK for a more upright hybrid or mountain bike. I find they can sometimes block too much of my forward field-of-view. 

Bar mounted mirrors simply rattle like crazy so don't offer a clear image while riding. Also, I found moving my head around enough to actually see behind me with the mirror required more effort than just glancing over my shoulder periodically.



> The competitive behavior from strangers encountered on a ride can be annoying sometimes. I was riding home after a long, hard ride and was set in my rhythm when a woman went flying past me. At first I thought "god, she is fast" but after she got about 100 meters ahead of me, she slowed down. I realized that when she saw me ahead of her, her competitive nature kicked in and she kicked hard to get around me. It wasn't a pace she could sustain though and I eventually caught back up to her. I was sort of "in the zone" after a hard ride and was moving along at a steady pace that was just right for me so since I wasn't changing my pace, I went to pass her when I caught up. Every time I tried to pass her though, she stood up and sprinted to stay ahead of me. It was very frustrating because I wanted to keep moving along at my steady pace but she was in my way and wouldn't let me ahead. I had no issue with her passing me if she was faster but she wasn't and she was impeding my pace. I didn't want to sit up and let her ride away because I felt like slowing my pace would throw my rhythm off. After a while, I decided fu*k it and started riding in her draft. She kept aggressively waving her hands at me like "get out of my draft" but I didn't know what else to do. If she wanted to ride in my draft after I passed her, that would have been fine if I didn't have to change my pace. I just rode her draft anyway until we got to the road where I turned off. I wondered what kind of story she told her friends after her ride about the jerk that rode her draft for about 15k or so.


I often see complaints about cyclists sprinting ahead then dying shortly thereafter. I have yet to have this happen to me on a bike. Though I think I may have done this to others -- I'm a n00b to road cycling and so far have only done solo riding. I usually pass most riders I encounter on climbs, then get re-passed by a lot of the same people on the descents -- this happens repeatedly in places with lots of rolling hills. I just can't seem to get nearly the kind of speed downhill as most other riders, many of whom appear to be chilling out resting or even outright _coasting_ in a fairly upright position on the hoods while at the same time I'm pedalling hard and trying to maintain an aerodynamic position and I'm going the same speed as them. 

I often end up with riders getting "stuck" behind me on descents (often clearly annoyed _wanting_ to get around me most of the time) but it's usually not possible for me to let them safely pass as the shoulder has copious amounts of potholes/glass/car parts etc. to dodge and "holding a straight line" leaving enough room for riders to pass in that situation would be suicidal. 

in my most recent ride, a 3-man paceline was stuck behind me on a descent for some time. When the shoulder widened they flew past and opened up a big gap on me. I tried to reel them in but didn't get caught back up to the guys until the road flattened out again, then I got separated once and for all when they sprinted through a yellow light I had to stop for. I'm quickly learning that I would get my a** handed to me in a race as even though I have good endurance, I absolutely suck at sprinting and descending quickly...


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## Kuma601 (Jan 22, 2004)

I don't have those problems...mainly because I am slow, kids on beach cruisers, BMX pass me all the time.  Have to work on getting your AVG down to about 8-10MPH.


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## JayTee (Feb 3, 2004)

When I read the story I can't tell who is really the roadie pr1ck... the drafter or the draftee. 

If you really hate it, say something (politely, not roadie pricky), pull off, or deal with it, and get over yourself, or yes, you will become one of "those" people you claim NOT to want to be.


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## bwbishop (Sep 17, 2011)

JayTee said:


> When I read the story I can't tell who is really the roadie pr1ck... the drafter or the draftee.


Well said. Get over yourself. If you're pullin' it's the same exertion as riding solo so who cares. I'd be more annoyed by the person that keeps passing but can't sustain the pace. That has a direct effect on my ride. Someone behind me... who gives a crap?


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## Pirx (Aug 9, 2009)

crazy03 said:


> I'll give a quick tap on the brakes to let the person know that I'm not cool with his behavior.


Quick tap on the brake, eh? I hope one of these days the guy behind you isn't quick enough, runs into you and takes you down with him. Sheesh, ever thought of the concept of talking to people? Personally, I couldn't care less if someone feels the need to draft me (and it's a very, very rare event that somebody would be strong enough to catch up to me and then still be able to hold my wheel for any length of time anyway), but I would usually try to strike up a conversation with this person if I'm on a more leisurely pace. And, if I really did not want that person to draft me, I would tell him/her so. Simple, innit?

God almighty, we could really do without those socially challenged roadies...


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## velodog (Sep 26, 2007)

There's a difference between somebody drafting and somebody wheelsucking. 
If it's a wheelsucker you could let 'em pass and then get on their wheel for the next 25 miles or so. Or if they won't go around and you really want to be, shall I say, unfriendly, just bunny-hop a pothole. But I been told that that's a little extreme.


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## Elfstone (Jun 27, 2006)

terry b said:


> For the record, I'm with you - I prefer to ride alone and alone means alone. It doesn't mean someone sitting on my wheel unasked. I know it doesn't affect my riding, I know it's no big deal. But it's my ride and I want it to be the way I want it to be.


^^^^ this ^^^^^

Peace


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## Elfstone (Jun 27, 2006)

I really do prefer to ride solo on my rides, but lately I've been picking up a tail for the last few months. Most of the time I just keep my pace and hope I'm too slow and they'll past me. That hasn't been the case though, I've had people actually stay on my wheel for miles on end and they never pull ahead a take a turn to pull. I don't know but it's like these folks wait till I pass by just to grab my wheel. 

On more then one occasion it'd been the same person. Most of the time after say between three~five miles they'll drop of, but last Sunday this dude stayed on me like glue for at least twelve~thirteen miles into my ride. Lost him on a steep climb and didn't see him after that. He might have turn off somewhere behind me for all I know. Anyhoo, the experience was good in the sense my cadence was higher, but I did feel I had less energy for the ride home. 

All and all I would rather just ride my pace and finish stronger. The next time I see this fella, I think I'll just pull over for a snack and water brake and hope not to catch up to him on the road. Now and then I run into a young lady that we take turns pulling, then after a few miles she drops me. She's a very strong rider that one. There's a guy that when ever we meet up, we end up taking turns pulling too. We may go on for two~three miles before we go our ways. I wish I meet up with more folks like that on my rides. 

Peace


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## SpartanRoadBike (Oct 6, 2011)

I'm with the who cares camp. I ride, I enjoy and have fun. If they want to draft I don't care I usually go fast and go slow and take my snacks when I have someone on my tail. They usually don't stay long. Also want some competition at times and push yourself a little bit.


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## 8toes (Feb 28, 2010)

I don't care who drafts me. I do not own that space of road or path and I refuse to let something like that diminish the enjoyment of my ride.


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## cycmike (May 12, 2011)

Sometimes I encounter other cyclists, but usually I don't on daily rides. On weekend rides with groups, if I tail someone or add to a pace line, I will always take my turn pulling. On daily rides I would prefer to be alone, but wouldn't get evil if someone pulled up. I'd just make some small talk, then pull around behind them and let them pull awhile, taking turns. Even during the hardest times, I always enjoy riding and don't mind sharing.


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## JCavilia (Sep 12, 2005)

woodys737 said:


> My Dad has one of those on his bike. I tried it for a ride just to see why all the old dudes in his group used them. I found them to be extremely ineffective at seeing traffic much further than a few seconds away. Also, I found it more dangerous looking down at the mirror rather than looking where I was going. Lastly, being mounted to the bike the vibrations make the view less degraded and hard to see much of anything. I ride with his group once a year or so and never say anything, but they would be much better served by focusing on what is front of them imho.


You tried it for "a ride." It takes a little practice. All your objections are invalid. I can see a block or more behind me. A glance at the mirror does not distract from looking ahead; it takes only a fraction of a second, and I can still see ahead with peripheral vision. The vibration is not a major issue.  I can see plenty. Riding with a mirror makes me safer and a better rider.

But I'm just an old dude who's been riding for 40 years or so. I probably don't know anything.


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## Buckeye Nation (Jun 14, 2011)

Oxtox said:


> unless there's a hellacious headwind, not sure why you'd need to draft someone who's only going 15-16 mph...
> 
> that said, this is just more weak-sister whining about roadie behavior...
> 
> ...


I must admit, I like the way you think, :thumbsup:

Cheers,
BN


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## MR_GRUMPY (Aug 21, 2002)

Usually, when I ride by myself, I'm following a planned ride. I may be doing intervals, or I might be doing a recovery ride. If I'm doing a recovery ride, AND the person is going the same speed as me, I don't mind if they ride NEXT to me. When I'm going hard, i don't want someone distracting me.

How many people here, like when somebody walks over, and starts to gab with you while you are trying to get work done?

Yes, I'm an Asshat.


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## jmitro (Jun 29, 2011)

Pirx said:


> Quick tap on the brake, eh? I hope one of these days the guy behind you isn't quick enough, runs into you and takes you down with him.


he was referring to tapping the brakes at tailgaters while DRIVING his car


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## woodys737 (Dec 31, 2005)

JCavilia said:


> You tried it for "a ride." It takes a little practice. All your objections are invalid. I can see a block or more behind me. A glance at the mirror does not distract from looking ahead; it takes only a fraction of a second, and I can still see ahead with peripheral vision. The vibration is not a major issue. I can see plenty. Riding with a mirror makes me safer and a better rider.
> 
> But I'm just an old dude who's been riding for 40 years or so. I probably don't know anything.


You probably don't.


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## nomit (Jul 13, 2009)

bq_or_bust said:


> while riding, i've notice too much rudeness. i just hope never to become like this.


you already are. because you think in a negative way.

stop caring.

yep...okay....absolute worst case scenario....one in a big number chance you're gonna need to brake and the dude behind you is gonna plow into you and scratch your shiny groupo or (even less of a chance) cause you to crash.

there's also an inherent risk of getting plowed over by an SUV and killed every time you clip in your shoes, and you still manage to go outside and enjoy yourself.

and who the hell drafts someone going 16mph anyways? the advantage gained is so negligible it's not even worth calculating.

turn around and say 'hey, how's it going? what's your name? what kind of bike you riding there? nice day out, huh. you wanna have a leg shaving party at my place on friday night? wanna take a pull?' etc. whatever. that's a heck of a better than pedaling silently with a cloud over your head fuming about the guy on your tail and then running home and whining to rbr.


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## crazy03 (Sep 28, 2011)

Pirx said:


> Quick tap on the brake, eh? I hope one of these days the guy behind you isn't quick enough, runs into you and takes you down with him. Sheesh, ever thought of the concept of talking to people?


Yes, a quick tap, just enough to get my brake lights to flash but not quite enough to cause the vehicle to slow down. :yesnod: 

And yes, I have, "thought of the concept of talking to people" but tell me how that's applicable/possible in the scenario in my post? :mad2:


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## crazy03 (Sep 28, 2011)

jmitro said:


> he was referring to tapping the brakes at tailgaters while DRIVING his car


:yesnod:


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## NJBiker72 (Jul 9, 2011)

While I don't mind someone drafting me now, it made me nervous when I was new to it. I just was not confident in my ability to ride steady enough.

Considering that back then I was on a GMC Denali most people should have been able to figure that out.


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## Fireform (Dec 15, 2005)

My advice is to get a TT bike. Everyone knows that people on TT bikes don't draft and don't want to be drafted. Or, go back to running marathons all by yourself. 

The basic force that cyclists contend with is wind resistance. Hence, road cyclists draft each other. They always have and they always will, and it's not entitlement or jerk behavior on their part--it's the nature of the sport. If you plan to continue with this fitness regime you should plan on getting over it. It's only polite to take turns pulling if you are able, but the rider who falls in behind is not always strong enough and that is also OK. Oh, and if you make a habit of hitting the brakes to deter people from drafting you, don't be surprised if someday one of them yanks you off your bike and beats you within an inch of your life, even if they have to pick themselves up off the pavement and chase you down to do it.


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## Salsa_Lover (Jul 6, 2008)

Well said, fireform


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## Pirx (Aug 9, 2009)

jmitro said:


> he was referring to tapping the brakes at tailgaters while DRIVING his car





crazy03 said:


> Yes, a quick tap, just enough to get my brake lights to flash but not quite enough to cause the vehicle to slow down. :yesnod:
> 
> And yes, I have, "thought of the concept of talking to people" but tell me how that's applicable/possible in the scenario in my post? :mad2:


Ah, yes, that wasn't immediately obvious from your post, but, sorry for the confusion. Anyway, the general direction of my rant still applies...


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## piston honda (Jun 18, 2011)

_Now and then I run into a young lady that we take turns pulling, then after a few miles she drops me. She's a very strong rider that one. There's a guy that when ever we meet up, we end up taking turns pulling too. _



Hey now, lets keep this stuff to ourselves & stick to talking about road biking in these forums.


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## qatarbhoy (Aug 17, 2009)

Fireform said:


> My advice is to get a TT bike. Everyone knows that *many* people on TT bikes *are triathletes who not only* don't draft and don't want to be drafted *but can't hold a line and call cycling 'biking'*.


FIFY! :thumbsup:


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## JasonB176 (Aug 18, 2011)

But what if you're passed by another cyclist? Is it considered okay to try to keep up with them? I admit that seeing another rider sometimes makes me a little competitive. If I pass them, I'm not bothered in the least if they try to keep up. Usually they can't and I like the challenge of it. Similarly, if I'm passed, I would like to see if I can keep up. IMO, that's different than sidling up behind a rider and just staying there.


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## derekvh (Oct 7, 2011)

while riding, i've notice too much rudeness. i just hope never to become like this.[/QUOTE]

come ride the dirt - we are much friendlier - that said i wouldn't care if someone was on my wheel but I dont have a bunch of rules for riding my bike i just get on and pedal and enjoy myself


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## antonlove (Sep 30, 2009)

Add me to the list of people who don't care if you suck my wheel unannounced. As a matter of fact, if I look back and notice one or more people drafting me, I consider it a compliment. And, generally speaking, when others are present, the testosterone kicks in and I ride a little harder. 

I also don't care if the person doesn't return the favor. If I was out for a solo ride, I never expected to draft anyway.


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## philoanna (Dec 2, 2007)

I was just about to write fart, but vicious cycle beat me.


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## martinrjensen (Sep 23, 2007)

I don't know where everybody is riding to find rude people so much. I'm kind of curious. I ride in the city in Seattle. I rarely wave because it takes my hands off the bars but I do a nod and most everyone I nod too, acknowledges it with same, roadies included of which I like to try and include myself. 
Never had a problem with someone drafting me. I have turned around and seen a face and I expressed surprise, mainly because it spooked me to be looking into a face when I expected nothing, but I didn't get mad. I said something and everything was fine. We usually swap pulls too. If I draft a stranger, I let them know I'm right behind them as soon as I can, sometimes traffic dictates when you talk though.
I've ran into only a handful of what I would classify as rude bikers and the majority are not roadies, but ss or fix riders.


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## f3rg (May 11, 2008)

I'm honored when someone drafts me. It usually happens _because I'm passing them_, and they latch on right as I pull in front of them. I know I can drop them anytime I feel like it, but instead I just let them hang back there for a couple minutes until one of us turns down another road, or I decide it's time to get back to my normal pace.

I really don't understand why anyone would get pissed because somebody else decided to catch a draft. It's basically their way of saying, "You're faster, mind if I borrow some of your speed for a minute?"


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## snosaw (May 30, 2006)

JoelS said:


> Some people just have bad attitudes. Stay positive and don't sweat the small stuff.


Agreed...Don't sweat the small stuff...instead, PET the SWEATY stuff.


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## Boom13 (Oct 8, 2011)

Why get upset about it? I get that some people want to ride on their own, however, we all have a common goal and interest. But....to each his own.


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## bwbishop (Sep 17, 2011)

antonlove said:


> Add me to the list of people who don't care if you suck my wheel unannounced. As a matter of fact, if I look back and notice one or more people drafting me, I consider it a compliment. And, generally speaking, when others are present, the testosterone kicks in and I ride a little harder.
> 
> I also don't care if the person doesn't return the favor. If I was out for a solo ride, I never expected to draft anyway.


Amen, preach on brother!


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## InfiniteLoop (Mar 20, 2010)

The difference in maturity between Americans and Europeans is astounding, particularly on the road (and this thread). It still amazes me how often people in the US will drive in the left lane and refuse to move over when they easily can. What's this all about? And then they tap their brakes (or slam them) to show how mature they are? And then all this attitude from cyclists upset that someone didn't wave, that someone respected them enough to try to draft off them, that someone passed them and then couldn't keep the pace, that someone isn't wearing rule approved clothing. Sheesh. No wonder motorists and cyclists in the U.S. hate each other and try to kill each other (and succeed at a much higher rate on the roads). What's with all the 'I'm better than you' garbage among Americans?


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## CalypsoArt (Dec 28, 2007)

All I can say is wow. Seriously, I can understand real close drafting from a stranger being uncomfortable and maybe dangerous. But really, the amount of bicycle etiquette Amy Vanderbilts out there is really amazing. 

I also ride a lot by myself. After a while I get lazy on my own and I start cruising. However, if some guy passes me at a pace I think I can hold I'll perk up and follow him--a few bike lengths back. He may think I competing with him but really I'm just using him to set a pace for me to aspire to. On occasion, the rider becomes aware I'm behind and they accelerate to lose me. Sometimes I let him go, other times I try to keep up If I can. It's happened to me on some of my good days where someone seems to be using me as a pace setter, or maybe not. I've had some catch and pass me, I don't care, I'm only in competition with my legs and lungs.
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## Chekuen (Oct 15, 2010)

*roadies*

its just best be as nice as you can be.


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## Fredrico (Jun 15, 2002)

*Hey, same here.*



CalypsoArt said:


> All I can say is wow. Seriously, I can understand real close drafting from a stranger being uncomfortable and maybe dangerous. But really, the amount of bicycle etiquette Amy Vanderbilts out there is really amazing.
> 
> I also ride a lot by myself. After a while I get lazy on my own and I start cruising. However, if some guy passes me at a pace I think I can hold I'll perk up and follow him--a few bike lengths back. He may think I competing with him but really I'm just using him to set a pace for me to aspire to. On occasion, the rider becomes aware I'm behind and they accelerate to lose me. Sometimes I let him go, other times I try to keep up If I can. It's happened to me on some of my good days where someone seems to be using me as a pace setter, or maybe not. I've had some catch and pass me, I don't care, I'm only in competition with my legs and lungs


Riders chase me down, pass in a few seconds, then slow a hundred or so yards ahead to my pace, pretty much. So I see how long it takes for them to pull away. Often I catch them, typically on a rise. Since I'm going about the same as they are, I usually stay behind them, yeah, drafting. Unless they slow. Then I pass them. Simple. Sometimes, it plays a cat and mouse game. We pass each other multiple times. Of course, there's always a spirit of competition, if nobody admits it.

If I catch someone, I may draft for awhile just for the hell of it, to catch my breath so to speak. If that makes someone nervous, I respond to the various messages discussed here. Snot rockets, it's been awhile, or tapping brakes, and I'll just sprint past the sucker like Mark Cavendish, and work my butt off trying to pull ahead. Of course, this frequently ends up in defeat, as he will rise to the challenge and pass me, upon which I'll let the snotty rider go.

Fortunately, most riders around here in NVA and DC are real gentlemen or ladies, and will be sporting about drafting, passing, and the games riders play. There's no better way to fitness than a challenge to work harder than you want to when the opportunity strikes, or providing same to others.

Commuting at 13-14 mph, everyone passes. But going unloaded at 18-20 mph, I'm a rabbit for the chase. Anyone going those speeds pretty much can expect to catch a few drafters. I've noticed the same thing driving the interstates. Going 70 while everyone else is doing 60, I'll catch a few pickup trucks or SUVs now pacing--or outright racing. When some Mercedes doing 120 mph passes another car on the Autobahn, the other car stays in the right lane and holds his speed. When some crazy guy in a Ferrari zips past a Fiat on some winding country road in Italy, the Fiat driver doesn't try to chase down the Ferrari. Competition is very much in the American spirit, possibly more so in the US than Europe or Asia. :lol: It has something to do with Americans' heightened sense of individualism. We're all constantly trying to prove ourselves.


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## Joe.90 (Sep 5, 2011)

Peter P. said:


> 1. Tell the offending rider to get off your wheel if they weren't invited. Before you DO anything, you have to at least voice yourself.
> 
> 2. If they refuse and/or cop an attitude, you have several options.
> 
> ...


You American's are so touchy!! In uk and Europe everyone drafts everyone, no offence is taken what so ever. 

If you did any of the above to me, there would almost def be a cyclist brawl!

Never once have I moaned at someone drafting me, or vise versa. Get on with it and stop over analysing.


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## Gumbyman (May 3, 2011)

*Come on!*

Some of you really appear to worry to much about what is behind you. The ride is in front of you; if it really bothers you make a simple right turn. Way too much thought is going into this. Take it as a compliment.


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## hikertoo (Jul 7, 2010)

Communicate, stop it sooner, I would let someone know within a minute or two if they were doing something I didn't like.
Luckily hikers never try to draft while I walking on the trail


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## Stockli Boy (Jun 17, 2002)

*They can draft if they want...*

but when they see my bumpersticker they either back off or step up for a pull. It somehow always gets a comment in group rides.


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## George M (Sep 25, 2008)

I like it when 6 guys are passing me and they are all yelling, on your left on your left, about 4 times before they pass. Talk about a bunch of annoying pin heads. Most of the time I ride during the week, but I like to go out on Saturday once in a while. These guys are really wearing me down though. So I'll probably give up riding on the weekends. Sorry to say. By the way that is Katy Texas area, if you ride there, you probably know what I mean.


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## Gumbyman (May 3, 2011)

*Enjoy the scenery!*

Yesterday, I had a lady go by me going about 25 mph. I only had a couple of miles left to go so I decided to stay with her and enjoy the scenery!  Goes to show you that if they don't like the look of your ass, they wouldn't draft! Drafting is just a compliment to the rider in front.


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## krott5333 (Oct 2, 2009)

thechriswebb said:


> The competitive behavior from strangers encountered on a ride can be annoying sometimes. I was riding home after a long, hard ride and was set in my rhythm when a woman went flying past me. At first I thought "god, she is fast" but after she got about 100 meters ahead of me, she slowed down. I realized that when she saw me ahead of her, her competitive nature kicked in and she kicked hard to get around me. It wasn't a pace she could sustain though and I eventually caught back up to her. I was sort of "in the zone" after a hard ride and was moving along at a steady pace that was just right for me so since I wasn't changing my pace, I went to pass her when I caught up. Every time I tried to pass her though, she stood up and sprinted to stay ahead of me. It was very frustrating because I wanted to keep moving along at my steady pace but she was in my way and wouldn't let me ahead. I had no issue with her passing me if she was faster but she wasn't and she was impeding my pace. I didn't want to sit up and let her ride away because I felt like slowing my pace would throw my rhythm off. After a while, I decided fu*k it and started riding in her draft. She kept aggressively waving her hands at me like "get out of my draft" but I didn't know what else to do. If she wanted to ride in my draft after I passed her, that would have been fine if I didn't have to change my pace. I just rode her draft anyway until we got to the road where I turned off. I wondered what kind of story she told her friends after her ride about the jerk that rode her draft for about 15k or so.


I thought someone was doing that with me once until I finally realized he was just doing intervals... 

:blush2:


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## Stealthammer (May 16, 2009)

To be honest, I'd rather have a "road squirrel" draft off my back than have them take pulls and then drop their pace so I have to pass them again. If I have someone I really don't want back there, I'll hang off the back of the next fast car to pass and put some space in between us. I have found that most of those guys will tire of chasing you down and just drop off the back after a couple intervals......


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## dmong2 (Sep 14, 2011)

I never say "On your left" when passing anymore even though I appear to be an elitist bike snob or whatever. I used to, but it didn't change the passee's behavior. I ride on a road with an 8 foot shoulder and the noobs and weekend warriors tend to ride on the line even though it's dangerous. I always pass with 3 feet of distance because no one ever looks back (or at their helmet mirrors) and if they do, they don't move over one inch. 

I don't mind really, I'm used to it by now. However, I have been yelled at and scolded a few times for passing without calling out first. How the hell am I supposed to call out that I'm passing when I am going 5 to 10 mph faster? How could anyone hear me anyway? Also, I am not out there cat 6 ing anyone, just riding a steady training pace. 

There are two sides to this situation and it's often the passed rider who complains even though they are riding oblivious. Not pointing fingers at anyone here, but it's what I deal with every weekend.


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## slonoma98 (Jun 22, 2005)

Someone catching my wheel never bothers me. I do my ride and stick to my plan. If they want to ride behind me that's fine but it won't make me ride any faster. Just don't plow into me. Maybe the "wheelsucker" is having a bad ride or has hit the wall and is struggling to get back home.


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## Guest (Oct 10, 2011)

dmong2 said:


> I never say "On your left" when passing anymore even though I appear to be an elitist bike snob or whatever. I used to, but it didn't change the passee's behavior. I ride on a road with an 8 foot shoulder and the noobs and weekend warriors tend to ride on the line even though it's dangerous. I always pass with 3 feet of distance because no one ever looks back (or at their helmet mirrors) and if they do, they don't move over one inch.


95% of the time nowadays, I simply pass without announcing anything -- typically I will slow to the pace of the rider in front, wait until the rightmost car lane is clear, then move out of the bike lane and pass in the car lane giving plenty of room. On long steady rides this provides me with some "unplanned" sprinting/variation in pace, so I don't really mind. 

In cases where I do need to announce I'm going to pass -- which usually means I'm commuting (not training) in a very narrow bike lane behind a much slower cyclist alongside a busy road (with no "natural openings" to move into the traffic lane to pass) -- I'll generally wait until shortly before the shoulder widens, say "passing" (not "on your left" which IME confuses people), wait for the rider to react or acknowledge me, then pass when there is ample room.



> I don't mind really, I'm used to it by now. However, I have been yelled at and scolded a few times for passing without calling out first. How the hell am I supposed to call out that I'm passing when I am going 5 to 10 mph faster? How could anyone hear me anyway? Also, I am not out there cat 6 ing anyone, just riding a steady training pace.
> 
> There are two sides to this situation and it's often the passed rider who complains even though they are riding oblivious. Not pointing fingers at anyone here, but it's what I deal with every weekend.


This remind me of an interesting commuting situation that happened to me a couple months back -- a cyclist was riding 5-10mph slower than I wanted to go, on on a very wide shoulder (almost the width of a typical car lane). The guy had a helmet mirror, saw me get ready to pass unannounced, then moved as far left as possible (so that he was riding ON the white line) to block me from passing. I eased up for a moment, then moved to pass on the right, the rider moved back to block me. This blocking behavior went on for some time.

If it was just a typical "oblivious" rider I'd have no problem simply slowing, announcing I wanted to pass, then proceeding somewhat later. However, since the guy seemed to be aware of my presence and intentionally blocking me I got a bit annoyed. I noticed that there was about to be a gap in traffic shortly before we reached the next stop sign. My plan was then to sprint hard, buzz past the guy on the left with just inches to spare, cut him off, then brake hard right in front of him to stop in time for the stop sign. Luckily, just seconds before I pulled this childish stunt, I recognized the "a**hole rider" in front of me was actually my boss from work... I sat up, drank most of a water bottle, coasted to the stop sign a substantial distance behind him, and faked like I wanted to turn right -_-


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## turbogrover (Jan 1, 2006)

InfiniteLoop said:


> The difference in maturity between Americans and Europeans is astounding, particularly on the road (and this thread). It still amazes me how often people in the US will drive in the left lane and refuse to move over when they easily can. What's this all about? And then they tap their brakes (or slam them) to show how mature they are? And then all this attitude from cyclists upset that someone didn't wave, that someone respected them enough to try to draft off them, that someone passed them and then couldn't keep the pace, that someone isn't wearing rule approved clothing. Sheesh. No wonder motorists and cyclists in the U.S. hate each other and try to kill each other (and succeed at a much higher rate on the roads). What's with all the 'I'm better than you' garbage among Americans?


Many, in the US, ( I don't want to include any of the other Americas in this ) have a retarded sense of entitlement. I have to live with this every single day.

The "invasion of my personal space" comment made me LOL.

Probably the same guys I see, that feel the need to hide and pee all over a toilet seat in a public restroom, rather than use a urinal like a normal person.


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## turbogrover (Jan 1, 2006)

You should hang a set of truck balls from your saddle to complete the kit.


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## derekvh (Oct 7, 2011)

Totally agree!!!


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## charliepuyear (Oct 7, 2011)

maybe it's just me but I prefer to ride with someone.. I get incredibly bored out on the road by myself.. exspecially after 30 miles! Even if I'm not catching a draft I enjoy the company of another rider. Also reduces the chance of being smacked by a car (I know you don' t have this problem in the park).


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## ziscwg (Apr 19, 2010)

Stockli Boy said:


> but when they see my bumpersticker they either back off or step up for a pull. It somehow always gets a comment in group rides.



I'm thinking that light get annoying after about 3 min of blinking. I have one of those too. If someone jumps on my wheel, I ignore them. Sometimes, it does give me that incentive to jump on it at some point to test myself.


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## GatorInBama (Sep 27, 2011)

:lol::lol:


Chico2000 said:


> Stopped washing my kit in August. Haven't had a wheel-sucka since.


Too funny!!!:lol:


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## jamisjockey (Dec 1, 2007)

Oxtox said:


> unless there's a hellacious headwind, not sure why you'd need to draft someone who's only going 15-16 mph...
> 
> that said, this is just more weak-sister whining about roadie behavior...
> 
> ...



Signature worthy.


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## tystevens (Jul 10, 2008)

Five pages, and I've yet to find any of the objectionable, snobbish roadie behaivor I've heard so much about on this forum! I mean, I've been riding for 3 seasons now, and have yet to come across it in the wild. I keep hoping to find actual cases on the internet, but still, nothing.

I'm in the "who cares" camp. Of course, it helps if you have your headphones on -- easier to tune them out or ignore them back there. I know when I might be perceived to be drafting off of someone, it is usually just because I haven't found space to make my way past them, or they are riding about the speed I'd like to go, and I don't want to start the pass and pass again game. So, I'll just stay where I'm at until things change. I try to stay several bike lengths behind, but who knows. If anyone gets behind me, I usually assume they're doing the same thing. Or maybe they're trying to challenge themselves. Or feel like a racer. Or whatever.

To the OP, I'm sure people would have drafted off of you when running if it did any good. It isn't because runners are somehow less snobbish or more courteous than bikers. Just a part of the sport.


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## Local Hero (Jul 8, 2010)

I don't care. 

Sometimes I enjoy the company. 

If I'm not in the mood I'll try to ride them off my wheel. If that doesn't work I'll gesture for them to pull. We'll take turns. And I'll slowly raise the tempo higher and higher. After I get them to pull hard a few times I'll attack. If I can't lose them at all, I'll make friends and try to ride with them in the future.


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## Rhymenocerus (Jul 17, 2010)

If someone is "drafting" you at 16-17mph, they need their man card taken away.


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## Fredrico (Jun 15, 2002)

*Unless he's an old fart, like me.*



Rhymenocerus said:


> If someone is "drafting" you at 16-17mph, they need their man card taken away.


I do 13-15 mph on the MUTs by myself, fully loaded commuting. When someone passes me, I may tuck into his draft and we'll be going 16-17 mph. :biggrin5: Or someone will chase me down while I'm actually going 16-17 mph, then stall ahead at my speed, so I'll make contact and draft him. That's a "problem" when two riders are going about the same speed. Who's going first and who's to follow? Passing requires going faster. How long does the rider have to go faster to not eventually "get caught?" 

Maybe I just happen to be going the same intensity as this guy, so I draft him, or he drafts me, or if there's a problem, he or I drops back and we ride separately. :ihih:

Has nothing to do with masculinity, although some riders are out there every day trying to prove theirs.  That's ok. Don't get me wrong.


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## chad68 (Aug 1, 2011)

Geez what's the big deal. Oh no somebody behind me, whaaaa.

If it bothers you that much fart, a LOT! Or maybe pour on a whole bottle of cheap cologne. Weave back and forth, like you're having a seizure. Or just act like you have Tourettes.


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## GaRandonee (Dec 21, 2010)

I take it as a compliment.


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## gaspi101 (May 12, 2011)

bq_or_bust said:


> i've put over 2,200 miles thus far this year. the most i've ever ridden on a bicycle. i noticed more and more this self-entitlement or jerkish behavior by cyclists. prior to this, my endurance sport was marathon running where there wasn't these problems. i wanted to get some opinions.
> 
> i usually ride by myself. i treat it as it would make me stronger than someone drafting and the data i've collected is my "real" stats. i'm not fast. probably average 16 mph. i can average 18+ mph for 30 miles doing loops in a closed rolling hill park with a couple ascents. what i'm noticing more and more is that cyclist would just ride on your tail without asking; believing it's fine and never thinking about asking you first.
> 
> ...


Waw...Sounds like you're half-way to douchiness already...I'm personally happy when people join me for a ride. It makes the outing about a million times more fun, you get to make friends, learn something new...none of the people you described sound like rude people. In fact, the first guy even smiled and waved at you. The last one was competing with you because that's a fun thing to do. I think that if these things bother you, you're definitely not a roadie, so I wouldn't worry about becoming one. 

Just read some other comments in here too--I'm an American (but lived my first 11 years in Argentina! :thumbsup: )


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## Mud (Feb 5, 2002)

"while riding, i've notice too much rudeness. i just hope never to become like this." 

Welcome to the world of road cycling! I've been lurking around this forum for many years (while being a long-time mountain biker), an avid road biker for the past few years, and I hate to says this... almost everything they say about roadies is true. What a different breed from mountain bikers! Ok, I obviously just made a sweeping generalizing here, but between so many of the comments I read on this forum, the attitudes of some guys in my bike club and others on the road, and the smug, nasty comments I read in the Velonews discussion sections... this is the conclusion I've come to. 

Female cyclist don't seem to come accross this way (maybe being in tight spandex/lycra all day with a hard skinny saddle between their legs doesn't have the same effect on them as it does to men!) I love bikes, I love gear, and and I love cycling. It's just the attitude that seems so pervasive in the road cycling community that leaves a bitter taste in my mouth. (present company excluded, of course).

To the OP - enjoy the ride, no matter what rolls up behind you. There is no better sport. Period.


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## jordo_99 (Apr 15, 2011)

I almost always ride alone so I get where you're coming from, but it just seems that you went about this the wrong way and got worked up over some petty stuff. 

From reading your first post it seems like you just tried to piss them off enough to go around rather than actually attempting to communicate your point. I would think that saying something outright like "go ahead I'm just spinning today" or "no offense, but I'd just rather ride alone today. Could you go on ahead".

I also don't get why it would bother you that much...you said it yourself you like to ride alone so you get your "real" stats...how does someone drafting you affect that?

One (obviously not all) of the reasons I draft off strangers is out of respect/courtesy. If I see a seasoned club rider who's just spinning for recovery (end of ride or just a recovery ride) I tend to slow down to their speed for a bit before I pass them by.
It doesn't matter when I happens to me but some people get really annoyed when someone goes flying past them and take it offensively. Those people also speed up and try to drop you (I'm competitive so I get that you don't want to get passed...but it just seems petty) but if you draft off them first it seems like it doesn't bother them nearly as much.

That last bit doesn't apply directly to your situation but it's also something to consider like other people have said...it's a compliment when you get drafted on. If someone drafts you the one thing they're absolutely not expressing is "Get the hell out of my way you slow ****! "


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## SlowMover (Jun 6, 2010)

bq_or_bust said:


> i've put over 2,200 miles thus far this year. the most i've ever ridden on a bicycle. i noticed more and more this self-entitlement or jerkish behavior by cyclists. prior to this, my endurance sport was marathon running where there wasn't these problems. i wanted to get some opinions.
> 
> i usually ride by myself. i treat it as it would make me stronger than someone drafting and the data i've collected is my "real" stats. i'm not fast. probably average 16 mph. i can average 18+ mph for 30 miles doing loops in a closed rolling hill park with a couple ascents. what i'm noticing more and more is that cyclist would just ride on your tail without asking; believing it's fine and never thinking about asking you first.
> 
> ...


In my early days I used to let stuff like this bother me to no end, but over the past 28 years I have come to a couple of conclusions. First is that I'm in this for my workout and if some guy wants to cheat himself to get a higher average mph by drafting that's perfectly fine by me. Secondly, although I don't race any longer I did for the better part of 19 years and not once did I ever see the front guy go down from a wheel tap behind. I have seen some rear derailleurs get dinged, but I ride on the shoulder so far you can't draft unless you wanna go CX. 

I think you will get to a point most likely where this stuff doesn't bother you, but to each his own. I think maybe 2x in all these years I have had a guy react oddly when I said 'hey would you like to work together for as long as it's feasible?'. Those 2 guys eventually went on b/c I came to a dead stop to take a pee and rid myself of them. You can always try farting. I typically save my farts for when I'm doing pulls to destroy my friends in the draft, but to an unsuspecting leech it's quite a shock! 

Don't let the jerks ruin a great day on the bike it's not worth it!


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## motard5 (Aug 9, 2010)

look fellas, its pretty simple. Its call simple communication.

#1 - if you dont want anyone around you, wave the drafter around, and do not draft them back.
#2 - if you dont mind someone drafting, but want some reciprocation, wave them around or say your turn after a bit, and then draft off their pulls for a while.

Someone that starts drafting you is not a jerk because of this act. Communicate, relax, and enjoy your ride.

Woooooosa.


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## rockcaster (May 28, 2008)

What is the socially acceptable distance to follow another cyclist? Two bike length, three, more, or a block away before people think you are following their draft?


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## gaspi101 (May 12, 2011)

I still don't get how anyone drafting you can bother you in any way. Not only is it flattering, but you can completely ignore them if you want! What's the problem?!


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## jlamb (Jan 28, 2011)

Just move to the country and you will be lucky if you ever see another cyclist! I have been in my house for a little over 2 years and in that time I have seen about 3 other cyclists on the roads. The trade-off is an over abundance of very large multi-colored trucks that do not move over.


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## Fredrico (Jun 15, 2002)

*Same as with cars.*



rockcaster said:


> What is the socially acceptable distance to follow another cyclist? Two bike length, three, more, or a block away before people think you are following their draft?


How about just enough distance so that if the rider in front has to make a panic stop, the rider in rear won't hit him?


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## Fredrico (Jun 15, 2002)

*Makes some people self-conscious.*



gaspi101 said:


> I still don't get how anyone drafting you can bother you in any way. Not only is it flattering, but you can completely ignore them if you want! What's the problem?!


Some riders get nervous with a drafter on his tail, like "What if I decide to slow up or skirt around an obstacle suddenly? Will my drafter be paying attention? Personally, I always feel a certain sense of responsibility when I'm towing somebody, like, put in a good effort to keep up my speed. Sometimes I just don't want to worry about that.


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## ziscwg (Apr 19, 2010)

Mud said:


> "while riding, i've notice too much rudeness. i just hope never to become like this."
> 
> Welcome to the world of road cycling! I've been lurking around this forum for many years (while being a long-time mountain biker), an avid road biker for the past few years, and I hate to says this... almost everything they say about roadies is true. What a different breed from mountain bikers! Ok, I obviously just made a sweeping generalizing here, but between so many of the comments I read on this forum, the attitudes of some guys in my bike club and others on the road, and the smug, nasty comments I read in the Velonews discussion sections... this is the conclusion I've come to.
> 
> ...


I always make it a point to say hello to others going the other way, or saying "how's it going" if I'm passing them. I'm out to break that "snooty", pretentious attitude some riders have got themselves into.

I don't worry about matching kit, shoes, tires, what ever. I just ride hard and with a purpose. If a team or sponsor wanted me to wear their stuff (free to me) then I would be more inclined to watch what I wear. 

I try to bring my mtb attitude to road biking. If someone wants to draft off me, fine. It will also motivate me to keep up the speed. I actually DON'T like it when someone jumps in front to do "their share" of the pull. If I'm out there solo, I want the full work. To me, a century solo is the only way to do it. Otherwise, it's a team effort. You then cannot say *I* did a century in 5 hrs. It's *we* did a century in 5 hrs.


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## Aggdaddy (Jun 18, 2010)

Fredrico said:


> Some riders get nervous with a drafter on his tail, like "What if I decide to slow up or skirt around an obstacle suddenly? Will my drafter be paying attention? Personally, I always feel a certain sense of responsibility when I'm towing somebody, like, put in a good effort to keep up my speed. Sometimes I just don't want to worry about that.


Oh, wow! You took the words right out of my mouth. Responsibility is the key word. I know some people don't give a hoot if someone drafts them, but once somebody hitches onto mine, I feel like I need to keep my same pace and can't slack off. Why? you might ask .. just a competitive nature of me. Don't wanna do any less than what was already observed. (speed/pace)


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## Salsa_Lover (Jul 6, 2008)

Americans are weird... Or like Obelix would say : "ils sont fous ces américains!"


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## gaspi101 (May 12, 2011)

Salsa_Lover said:


> Americans are weird... Or like Obelix would say : "ils sont fous ces américains!"


I LOVE Asterix & Obelix!!!! But I read the magazines in Spanish (!!). "Estan majaretas, estos Americanos!"


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## Scriv (Sep 26, 2011)

Why be annoyed by this behavior? It provides an outstanding training opportunity. Like the time my daughter and I were out for a ride and we happened along on a wheelsucker that got into a paceline uninvited. His actions caused an accident. He was bleeding all over the pavement, his bike was trashed, another riders' bike was trashed. Medical attention had to be summoned. Outstanding example for my daughter to see the perfect "what not to do". Ride your own ride, don't infringe upon others right to a safe ride.


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## Chris-X (Aug 4, 2011)

I like to spit or blow a snot rocket occassionally. If I don't know they're back there and I hit them, whose fault is that?


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## BryanSayer (Sep 22, 2009)

My new signature line - Draft beer, not random cyclists!

Personally I ride too slow for anyone to do that to me. I would not care if they did, but I would prefer that they let me know that they are back there. I would worry about doing something unexpected.


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## Tig (Feb 9, 2004)

bq_or_bust said:


> what i'm noticing more and more is that cyclist would just ride on your tail without asking; believing it's fine and never thinking about asking you first.


I had this problem, but after adding a *second magnet* to my wheel, I dropped all wheel suckers with my new doubled speed. Ah, nothing beats a 30-40 MPH average!  Did I mention how many clowns I can bench?

Seriously, I rarely have the wheel sucker thing happen and can't add anything worthwhile that hasn't been covered ad nauseam.


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## 55x11 (Apr 24, 2006)

ziscwg said:


> I always make it a point to say hello to others going the other way, or saying "how's it going" if I'm passing them. I'm out to break that "snooty", pretentious attitude some riders have got themselves into.
> 
> I don't worry about matching kit, shoes, tires, what ever. I just ride hard and with a purpose. If a team or sponsor wanted me to wear their stuff (free to me) then I would be more inclined to watch what I wear.
> 
> I try to bring my mtb attitude to road biking. If someone wants to draft off me, fine. It will also motivate me to keep up the speed. I actually DON'T like it when someone jumps in front to do "their share" of the pull. If I'm out there solo, I want the full work. To me, a century solo is the only way to do it. Otherwise, it's a team effort. You then cannot say *I* did a century in 5 hrs. It's *we* did a century in 5 hrs.


this is a great attitude. always say something. otherwise deuchyness goes both ways.


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## Fredrico (Jun 15, 2002)

*I like your attitude, ziscwg!*



ziscwg said:


> I always make it a point to say hello to others going the other way, or saying "how's it going" if I'm passing them. I'm out to break that "snooty", pretentious attitude some riders have got themselves into.
> 
> I don't worry about matching kit, shoes, tires, what ever. I just ride hard and with a purpose. If a team or sponsor wanted me to wear their stuff (free to me) then I would be more inclined to watch what I wear.
> 
> I try to bring my mtb attitude to road biking. If someone wants to draft off me, fine. It will also motivate me to keep up the speed. I actually DON'T like it when someone jumps in front to do "their share" of the pull. If I'm out there solo, I want the full work. To me, a century solo is the only way to do it. Otherwise, it's a team effort. You then cannot say *I* did a century in 5 hrs. It's *we* did a century in 5 hrs.


I've always felt the same way, with perhaps one exception. I kind of like to "look good" out there, so I have a weakness for style. :biggrin5: Looking good sure doesn't get in the way of being friendly, though.


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## Tig (Feb 9, 2004)

ziscwg said:


> I always make it a point to say hello to others going the other way, or saying "how's it going" if I'm passing them. * I'm out to break that "snooty", pretentious attitude some riders have got themselves into*.
> 
> *I try to bring my mtb attitude to road biking. *
> 
> To me, a *century solo is the only way to do it*. Otherwise, it's a team effort. You then cannot say *I* did a century in 5 hrs. It's *we* did a century in 5 hrs.











+1 to all the above for me. This has been my attitude while riding road over the last 24 years, even when being a member of a few very competitive teams. I feel we are all ambassadors representing our sport, including _within_ our sport with other riders.

You tend to get back what you put in. Be the change you want to see.


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## Scriv (Sep 26, 2011)

Tig said:


> You tend to get back what you put in. Be the change you want to see.


Words to live by. :thumbsup:


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## QED (Aug 11, 2011)

And yet another reason that I am glad I suck enough that this will never happen to me. I am the sweep .


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## Tschai (Jun 19, 2003)

ziscwg said:


> I'm out to break that "snooty", pretentious attitude some riders have got themselves into.
> 
> To me, a century solo is the only way to do it. Otherwise, it's a team effort. You then cannot say *I* did a century in 5 hrs. It's *we* did a century in 5 hrs.


A century is a century. I think your attitude on this is a bit snooty and pretentious.


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## gaspi101 (May 12, 2011)

Tschai said:


> A century is a century. I think your attitude on this is a bit snooty and pretentious.


I have to disagree. Its not just a century, but a 5 hr. century. This is accomplished easily in a large group, but (at least for me) not so easily alone. My fastest solo century (including rest stop) was 5hrs. 45 min. In a group, 4hrs. 25min.


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## Tschai (Jun 19, 2003)

gaspi101 said:


> I have to disagree. Its not just a century, but a 5 hr. century. This is accomplished easily in a large group, but (at least for me) not so easily alone. My fastest solo century (including rest stop) was 5hrs. 45 min. In a group, 4hrs. 25min.


You seem to have missed my point entirely.


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## Tig (Feb 9, 2004)

Tschai said:


> A century is a century. I think your attitude on this is a bit snooty and pretentious.


I dunno about that, but your reaction shows you've never done a solo/non-drafted century. Maybe you should try to get out of the comfort zone and see what it feels like to nail a sub 5 hour century _without_ help. Physically, the difference is huge, and _a century is _*not*_ a century_ after all.

Tell us how it feels to achieve such a great accomplishment when you decide to give it a go. :thumbsup:


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## Fredrico (Jun 15, 2002)

*Hey, give credit where credit is due!*



Tschai said:


> A century is a century. I think your attitude on this is a bit snooty and pretentious.


Doing a century solo is a great accomplishment. Doing one with a group of others is also a great accomplishment, but it's a collective accomplishment. ziscwg is merely giving credit where credit is due. What's snooty about that?


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## triumph.1 (Jun 21, 2011)

When I heard wheelsucking at 15-16 mph I immediately visualized a benny hill skit. I ride alone 99% of the time and know there aren't enough people in my area to even worry about this happening. As a matter of fact I would welcome someone that rides the same pace or faster riding on my wheel once in awhile as long as they returned the favor and it's nice to interact with other cyclists once in awhile. Personally I find riding with others tends to push me to go faster and work harder so I say bring on the wheel suckers.


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## MoPho (Jan 17, 2011)

Tig said:


> I dunno about that, but your reaction shows you've never done a solo/non-drafted century. Maybe you should try to get out of the comfort zone and see what it feels like to nail a sub 5 hour century _without_ help. Physically, the difference is huge, and _a century is _*not*_ a century_ after all.
> 
> Tell us how it feels to achieve such a great accomplishment when you decide to give it a go. :thumbsup:




You do realize that riding with other people doesn't necessarily mean you're drafting right?

I've done big rides with other people where we were either spread out or side by side where we could. The only "help" was the mental motivation of being with others


.


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## Fredrico (Jun 15, 2002)

*Yeah, well...*



MoPho said:


> You do realize that riding with other people doesn't necessarily mean you're drafting right?
> 
> I've done big rides with other people where we were either spread out or side by side where we could. The only "help" was the mental motivation of being with others
> 
> ...


I bet your group didn't do it under 5 hours, either! Team work maybe, in that you all stuck together and did it, but not of the higher order of a well disciplined pace line, putting out good tempo. Those are a rarity outside large events. {ihih:


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## Guest (Nov 7, 2011)

triumph.1 said:


> When I heard wheelsucking at 15-16 mph I immediately visualized a benny hill skit. I ride alone 99% of the time and know there aren't enough people in my area to even worry about this happening. As a matter of fact I would welcome someone that rides the same pace or faster riding on my wheel once in awhile as long as they returned the favor and it's nice to interact with other cyclists once in awhile. Personally I find riding with others tends to push me to go faster and work harder so I say bring on the wheel suckers.


About the only time I've done the "let someone pass me then draft their rear wheel" game is with cars on roads where the prevailing speed of the traffic is a few MPH faster than what I can comfortably ride. And in those cases it usually has more to do with me trying to prevent a "right hook" accident than trying to gain any sort of performance advantage (ie I follow a car I suspect is about to turn right -- or who has actually signaled a right turn -- then pass them on the left as they turn) 


I Seem to be in a "no mans land" fitness wise -- I've yet to run into another rider riding a similar pace as me for any length of time. 

I see a fair number of other road cyclists in my area (I'm specifically not counting commuters, or guys riding hybrids/mountain bikes on MUT's) -- often dozens on a single ride -- though most seem to be either much slower (usually older weekend warrior types) or much, much faster than I am (ie guys wearing jerseys for teams they're actually affiliated with...) 

I've often have the latter ride behind me (not so close that they're actually drafting), not pass me despite there being several opportunities to do so, then SPRINT around me right as the light is turning yellow, and barely make it through when I have to stop, ensuring that I couldn't _possibly_ catch up and attempt to wheel-suck _them_* 

I suppose this could be a matter of statistics though -- riders going significantly different speeds as each other are more likely to pass each other/interact than riders going exactly the same speed but who happened to start in different places...



*Part of me believes these actually *trying* to strategically drop me using the traffic lights, but most likely, they're riders for whom my tempo/"comfortably hard" cruising pace is a recover pace, therefore they have a lot more energy left in the tank to sprint/avoid an unwanted stop at a red light than I do...


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## gaspi101 (May 12, 2011)

Tschai said:


> You seem to have missed my point entirely.


Communication is a two-way street, bud.


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## Fredrico (Jun 15, 2002)

*You just never know.*



PhotonFreak said:


> About the only time I've done the "let someone pass me then draft their rear wheel" game is with cars on roads where the prevailing speed of the traffic is a few MPH faster than what I can comfortably ride. And in those cases it usually has more to do with me trying to prevent a "right hook" accident than trying to gain any sort of performance advantage (ie I follow a car I suspect is about to turn right -- or who has actually signaled a right turn -- then pass them on the left as they turn)
> 
> 
> I Seem to be in a "no mans land" fitness wise -- I've yet to run into another rider riding a similar pace as me for any length of time.
> ...


Intentions of other riders vary. Natural to assume they're somehow keying on you, which I firmly believe is often the case, the faster you're riding the more it happens. 12-14 mph, no problem. Riders pass at speed and just keep going. But 17-20 mph, and it gets competitive. Riders will play hound and fox. They have to work to chase you down, then draft until they recover or feel it's safe to pass, then accelerate around, and can't slow down until they get far enough ahead so you won't catch them. For 9 out of 10 riders around here in NVA, they end up going about 18 mph up the road, same speed as me. 

A young girl jock did that to me today. All I saw was a shadow for a while, bouncing off my rear wheel. :shocked: So I put my hand down to caution her not to pass until we came to a place it was safe.. Then she sprinted around (on a slight downhill :biggrin5. Quite natural to try and grab her wheel, but today, what the hell! I let her go. :ihih:

You should have grabbed a wheel in that passing group. There's awesome power in numbers. Y'all'll get respect. My buddy and I used to draft trash trucks off stop lights up to about 35 mph. Great fun, if you can stomach the smell!


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## Guest (Nov 7, 2011)

Fredrico said:


> Intentions of other riders vary. Natural to assume they're somehow keying on you, which I firmly believe is often the case, the faster you're riding the more it happens. 12-14 mph, no problem. Riders pass at speed and just keep going. But 17-20 mph, and it gets competitive.


On level ground I'm typically going 18-20. The slower road riders I encounter are usually going ~15-17 which is a pretty big speed differential. I run into these guys mostly on weekends. The guys who routinely drop me seem to be able to cruise 23+ solo, 25+ in groups, and are usually much stronger sprinters than I am. 



> Riders will play hound and fox. They have to work to chase you down, then draft until they recover or feel it's safe to pass, then accelerate around, and can't slow down until they get far enough ahead so you won't catch them. For 9 out of 10 riders around here in NVA, they end up going about 18 mph up the road, same speed as me.
> 
> 
> A young girl jock did that to me today. All I saw was a shadow for a while, bouncing off my rear wheel. :shocked: So I put my hand down to caution her not to pass until we came to a place it was safe.. Then she sprinted around (on a slight downhill :biggrin5. Quite natural to try and grab her wheel, but today, what the hell! I let her go. :ihih:
> ...


Well, in those particular cases, I probably should have anticipated the light sooner and sped up enough to make it before the guys behind me made their move, then slowed once through the intersection (encouraging them to pass), _then_ latched on. 

It's definitely possible these guys had started a ways behind me and been trying to "reel me in" for a long time. The spot I usually get passed is a long gradual downhill after a steeper climb. I'm pretty lightweight so naturally can climb pretty well, usually equaling or bettering people who can ride faster than me on the flats. On the downhills I will often get passed by by small groups (drafting/aero advantage) and/or people with ~20% more body weight than me.


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## Fredrico (Jun 15, 2002)

*Dig it.*



PhotonFreak said:


> On level ground I'm typically going 18-21. The slower road riders I encounter are usually going ~15-17 which is a pretty big speed differential. The guys who routinely drop me seem to be able to cruise 23+ solo, 25+ in groups, and are usually much stronger sprinters than I am.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


One does what one does best. :thumbsup: You can climb fast. That's when you can pass lesser riders. Keep it up on the flats. Make it hard for them to pass. Then smoke 'em on the next rise. :biggrin5:

I'm a bit over the hill at 68 years, but not that heavy and know how to climb too. Surprises everyone. They think they've got me beat, then I drop 'em on the climbs. You know the saying, "When the going gets tough, the tough get going?" Cycling fast on the flats is one thing. You've got momentum. Speeding up hills quite another. Gravity steals momentum. You have to work your a$$ off on every pedal stroke. Not everyone, few riders actually, have the mental strength to do that, so they always slow down, struggle with the effort, and lose form. That's when you can drop 'em. Kind of like in a crit on the 6th or 7th lap, everyone's getting ragged out starting to tire. That's when to attack. Everybody but the strongest riders say, "Oh no!" Of course you have to keep it up until the 10th lap!

The psychological games riders play has always fascinated me. That's a nice part of bicycling few other sports have. Except boxing. Boxing plays out a drama between two athletes trying to outlast the other in battles of attrition. Competitive cycling is like that, and anyone can play.


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## kbwh (May 28, 2010)

ziscwg said:


> I try to bring my mtb attitude to road *biking*.


Oh dear.


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## Fredrico (Jun 15, 2002)

kbwh said:


> Oh dear.


Snob!


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## turbodogs02 (Oct 24, 2011)

Ok, so I'm still a fairly new rider, about a year, and I usually ride alone for my daily rides....I'll typically ride on a "closed loop" that's about 3.5 miles around, and there are usually other cyclists as well. Typical ride is to loop the course for about an hour or two, then head off up for some hills or home, depending on the day. 

So what would be considered "polite" when approaching another rider who is going approx. your same speed? Is it ok to tail for a minute, then pass and press on? Should you avoid slotting in behind at all costs and just hang off to the side or attempt to pass? 

Do/should you say anything at all? 

I guess I'm asking since I usually don't encounter this issue, although there have been a handful of times where two or three of us seem to come together and end up working together and pushing hard for a few laps....nobody has ever said anything, or asked, it just sort of happened. Never noticed it being a problem before. 

Just don't want to be "that guy" out there...


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## qatarbhoy (Aug 17, 2009)

I would either keep a safe distance, or pull up alongside and say hi, or pass them safely with a clear greeting beforehand to let them know you're coming. 

The douchey move is to lock into their draft an inch from their rear wheel without warning and then pull out to win some imaginary 'finish line sprint'. :nonod: Doing this while riding on aero bars scores extra D'Bag points.


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## antonlove (Sep 30, 2009)

Fredrico said:


> Riders will play hound and fox. They have to work to chase you down, then draft until they recover or feel it's safe to pass, then accelerate around, and can't slow down until they get far enough ahead so you won't catch them.


This reminds me of when I first started cycling. I would be passed by so many cyclists and I thought I sucked. Then one day I noticed a large group drafting me. They dropped me on a hill and then waited to offer me a draft. I didn't understand that so I went past them and then they latched back on my wheel. At the end of the trail, they explained to me about drafting and many other things cycling such as the 'hound and fox' game. A year later I got a new bike and now look to out-fox those who used to go by me. Now when someone sprints by me, I like to stay about 10 bike-lengths behind them. Let's see how long we can keep up this furious pace. Some still drop me, but many slow down and I go right back by them.


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## turbodogs02 (Oct 24, 2011)

qatarbhoy said:


> I would either keep a safe distance, or pull up alongside and say hi, or pass them safely with a clear greeting beforehand to let them know you're coming.
> 
> The douchey move is to lock into their draft an inch from their rear wheel without warning and then pull out to win some imaginary 'finish line sprint'. :nonod: Doing this while riding on aero bars scores extra D'Bag points.


Sounds like a reasonable plan....guess I'll make more of an effort to say something next time.


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## Tschai (Jun 19, 2003)

Tig said:


> I dunno about that, but your reaction shows you've never done a solo/non-drafted century. Maybe you should try to get out of the comfort zone and see what it feels like to nail a sub 5 hour century _without_ help. Physically, the difference is huge, and _a century is _*not*_ a century_ after all.
> 
> Tell us how it feels to achieve such a great accomplishment when you decide to give it a go. :thumbsup:


Your comments above are about as snooty and pretentious as it gets and they underscore my point ten-fold. You can live in your world of real century vs. non-real century all you want, but your century distinction, and especially your attitude, accomplish nothing other than to show how elitist cyclists are, even when they claim to be otherwise. If you want to go around and yap all day about how your centuries are better than others, be my guest. I will continue to give full century credit to riders that complete any century. And trying to explain to me that riding a century solo is harder than riding one in a group that drafts is meaningless in the context of my initial post.

As for my riding accomplishments, you really have no idea what they are. Commenting on them blind is not very savvy.


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## Tschai (Jun 19, 2003)

Fredrico said:


> Doing a century solo is a great accomplishment. Doing one with a group of others is also a great accomplishment, but it's a collective accomplishment. ziscwg is merely giving credit where credit is due. What's snooty about that?


If we want people to take us seriously about not being elitists, snobs and the like, it should end with:

"Doing a century solo is a great accomplishment. Doing one with a group of others is also a great accomplishment."

Why the added BS about solo centuries and how one must say "we did a century" if it was not solo? That is not credit where credit is due. It's something entirely different.


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## Tschai (Jun 19, 2003)

gaspi101 said:


> Communication is a two-way street, bud.


Please don't call me bud, pal.


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## jmike1487 (Jul 11, 2011)

Oxtox said:


> unless there's a hellacious headwind, not sure why you'd need to draft someone who's only going 15-16 mph...
> 
> that said, this is just more weak-sister whining about roadie behavior...
> 
> ...


this get a +1


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## Tig (Feb 9, 2004)

Tschai said:


> Your comments above are about as snooty and pretentious as it gets and they underscore my point ten-fold. You can live in your world of real century vs. non-real century all you want, but your century distinction, and especially your attitude, accomplish nothing other than to show how elitist cyclists are, even when they claim to be otherwise. If you want to go around and yap all day about how your centuries are better than others, be my guest. I will continue to give full century credit to riders that complete any century. And trying to explain to me that riding a century solo is harder than riding one in a group that drafts is meaningless in the context of my initial post.
> 
> As for my riding accomplishments, you really have no idea what they are. Commenting on them blind is not very savvy.


You actually made me laugh, so I should at least thank you for that!
However, you are asking for a reaction, and I'll gladly feed your trolling attempt just this one time...

You sad, flaccid little man. You know nothing about me, so keep your self-doubt, anger and judgements to yourself. I seriously doubt you would say this [email protected] to my face, you sniveling coward. 

You'll never meet a less snooty and pretensions, more layed back cyclist than myself, but since you obviously have some serious psychological issues (your words speak volumes), you go on the attack where none is warranted. Seriously, get back on your med's or consult a doctor before you self implode.

As for centuries, I never speak of them. What's the point? I never brag about any of my cycling accomplishments and keep my trophies, etc. in the attic. So, go get yourself a full mug of STFU.


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## Tig (Feb 9, 2004)

Tschai said:


> Please don't call me bud, pal.


Serious attitude issues with this one.


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## gaspi101 (May 12, 2011)

Jesus. How ironic that this post was posted by a whining and ill-tempered cyclist, and now, the only posts are from whining and I'll-tempered cyclists. Interesting. There may be something to this American road cyclist arrogance and duchiness that many people talk about...


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## gaspi101 (May 12, 2011)

Tig said:


> Serious attitude issues with this one.


Lol. Honestly! Haha


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## Tschai (Jun 19, 2003)

Tig said:


> You actually made me laugh, so I should at least thank you for that!
> However, you are asking for a reaction, and I'll gladly feed your trolling attempt just this one time...
> 
> You sad, flaccid little man. You know nothing about me, so keep your self-doubt, anger and judgements to yourself. I seriously doubt you would say this [email protected] to my face, you sniveling coward.
> ...


You seem to have forgotten that you directed a post at me before I did at you and that your nice little comments were about as passive aggressive of an insult as it gets.

Take a look at several posts back. Remember your words:

"I dunno about that, but your reaction shows you've never done a solo/non-drafted century. Maybe you should try to get out of the comfort zone and see what it feels like to nail a sub 5 hour century without help. Physically, the difference is huge, and a century is not a century after all.

Tell us how it feels to achieve such a great accomplishment when you decide to give it a go. "

Not very laid back words, are they. So it seems my comments may have been warranted. Have a nice life and enjoy your real centuries.


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## Fredrico (Jun 15, 2002)

*Sorry. I don't follow.*



Tschai said:


> If we want people to take us seriously about not being elitists, snobs and the like, it should end with:
> 
> "Doing a century solo is a great accomplishment. Doing one with a group of others is also a great accomplishment."
> 
> Why the added BS about solo centuries and how one must say "we did a century" if it was not solo? That is not credit where credit is due. It's something entirely different.


What's wrong with giving credit to a group of riders who combine forces in a disciplined pace line and accomplishes a century in significantly less time than any one of them could do solo? 

I wouldn't think of that as "elitist." It's an activity that club riders and participants in event rides do all the time. When the opportunity presents itself, it becomes one of the most personally rewarding experiences an avid cyclist can have.

But maybe you were criticizing the idea that if one hasn't done a century solo, on his own grit and determination, if he's "cheated" with pals or drafting of random riders stronger than him in events, he's not a "real cyclist."  I didn't read it that way. I read it as calling attention to a group accomplishment. If every group that finds itself riding a century is "elitist," well gee, what are ya gonna do? :ihih: (Join em. :thumbsup(If you haven't already. )


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## Fredrico (Jun 15, 2002)

*Feels good!*



antonlove said:


> This reminds me of when I first started cycling. I would be passed by so many cyclists and I thought I sucked. Then one day I noticed a large group drafting me. They dropped me on a hill and then waited to offer me a draft. I didn't understand that so I went past them and then they latched back on my wheel. At the end of the trail, they explained to me about drafting and many other things cycling such as the 'hound and fox' game. A year later I got a new bike and now look to out-fox those who used to go by me. Now when someone sprints by me, I like to stay about 10 bike-lengths behind them. Let's see how long we can keep up this furious pace. Some still drop me, but many slow down and I go right back by them.


Hey, you've arrived when you look back and see a large group drafting! :thumbsup:

Speaking of "out-foxing," I did a turn around once at an intersection on the MUT. Right across the road was the Reston Bike Club, on their Thursday evening hammerfest, waiting for traffic to clear. Well, damn, I said to myself, "I'm gonna just see how long I can make them chase me down!" Man, it was adrenalin pumping cheap thrills! :biggrin5: Managed to stay away until the bridge over route 28, 3 or 4 miles. The first one to overtake me was so fried, he could barely hold his bike straight, almost taking me out. We all rode into Herndon together, and I wasn't the only one recovering. Heh, heh.


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## Chekuen (Oct 15, 2010)

ok there is my post


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## j.carney.tx (Jun 15, 2011)

If I catch up to them, they're going too slow. If they catch up to me, they're going too fast.


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## iheartbenben (Mar 18, 2011)

Tschai said:


> Please don't call me bud, pal.


You are BANISHED from the he-man-woman-haters-club, do you have any last words, PAL?


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## foto (Feb 7, 2005)

My problem with this world is that it is full of other people. They enjoy many of the same things I enjoy, and they don't seem to be going away.


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## jerrycan42 (Aug 18, 2010)

Hmm, Maybe I'm evil then? I love road road, but can only make it out once a week to a club ride. All my other rides are on my commuter MTB with 1.9" slicks. Since I take the "country way" home, I always come across 1 or a small group of road bikes. I kinda make it my goal to catch up and then try to hang one once they speed up when they realize I'm there. Realy good workout by the way! Gets me home fast..

I've never had any tell me to get lost, but I do take a turn at the front..


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## DirtySanchez (Sep 26, 2011)

i don't think much of it, i'm 1000 miles into it 16-19mph and i get tailed all the time, we have very strong winds out here by the ocean

ive noticed some people are rude and others are nice, you never know what's going through a person's head, maybe they just had a bad day or they don't think to 'ask permission' to tail you

you're not loosing anything by someone tailing you either, you're giving something

seems to me like you're the one with the bad attitude ... i'm just sayin'


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## Fredrico (Jun 15, 2002)

*Show off!*



jerrycan42 said:


> Hmm, Maybe I'm evil then? I love road road, but can only make it out once a week to a club ride. All my other rides are on my commuter MTB with 1.9" slicks. Since I take the "country way" home, I always come across 1 or a small group of road bikes. I kinda make it my goal to catch up and then try to hang one once they speed up when they realize I'm there. Realy good workout by the way! Gets me home fast..
> 
> I've never had any tell me to get lost, but I do take a turn at the front..


I've been in this situation on club rides as well as solo. Some tough guy on a big mountain bike will zoom around me--and not slow down! They'll just motor on ahead, like they own the damn road! WTF? Who do they think they are?

Nice you took a few pulls, though! :thumbsup:


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## Vibe (Jan 11, 2011)

It's a good time to blow your nose.


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## BostonG (Apr 13, 2010)

I hate cyclists. They pass me, they stay behind me, they draft me, they don’t draft me, they talk to me too much, they aren’t friendly enough, etc. 

I mean all I really want is for someone to want to draft me but don’t want to be drafted you know…is that so hard? And if someone doesn’t friggin’ wave to me soon, I swear to god I’ll start another thread about it!

BTW, I’ve got 2 for Tig Vs. Tschai in the Meadowlands this Saturday night. Highest bidder takes ‘em.

Thank you for listening and remember – never go ahead of me or stay behind me - I hate you all, including myself.


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## slonoma98 (Jun 22, 2005)

BostonG said:


> I hate cyclists. They pass me, they stay behind me, they draft me, they don’t draft me, they talk to me too much, they aren’t friendly enough, etc.
> 
> I mean all I really want is for someone to want to draft me but don’t want to be drafted you know…is that so hard? And if someone doesn’t friggin’ wave to me soon, I swear to god I’ll start another thread about it!
> 
> ...


lol I think that pretty much sums it up


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## gaspi101 (May 12, 2011)

BostonG said:


> I hate cyclists. They pass me, they stay behind me, they draft me, they don’t draft me, they talk to me too much, they aren’t friendly enough, etc.
> 
> I mean all I really want is for someone to want to draft me but don’t want to be drafted you know…is that so hard? And if someone doesn’t friggin’ wave to me soon, I swear to god I’ll start another thread about it!
> 
> ...


LOL...repped. :thumbsup:


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## Zeekster64 (Dec 23, 2010)

I don't think I'd mind someone drafting me if they asked because that way I know I have to bike with a bit more predictability. I guess it can be perceived as awkward if you don't know the person but at the same time you're probably riding yoru bike while wearing spandex so I think that might be awkward for just about everyone you happen to bike by.


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## ziscwg (Apr 19, 2010)

gaspi101 said:


> I have to disagree. Its not just a century, but a 5 hr. century. This is accomplished easily in a large group, but (at least for me) not so easily alone. My fastest solo century (including rest stop) was 5hrs. 45 min. In a group, 4hrs. 25min.


I agree to disagree that a century is a century. To add to the mix a century with 10,000 ft of vertical climbing is a totally different animal than a century with 5000 ft of vert. 

I'm pretty shot after this one ride that is 63 miles and 7700 vert ft of climbing.


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## ziscwg (Apr 19, 2010)

gaspi101 said:


> Jesus. How ironic that this post was posted by a whining and ill-tempered cyclist, and now, the only posts are from whining and I'll-tempered cyclists. Interesting. *There may be something to this American road cyclist arrogance and duchiness that many people talk about*...


Yep, proud arrogant American here. LOL.

I think it has to do with what we make our roads out of here in the USA. Too much time out there fries the niceness out of our brains . We recover quickly though. When I ride mtb, this attitude is no where to be found on the trail (in my experience).


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## Tig (Feb 9, 2004)

BostonG said:


> BTW, I’ve got 2 for Tig Vs. Tschai in the Meadowlands this Saturday night. Highest bidder takes ‘em.


Thanks, but I wouldn't wanna' display a mere sparing workout at the Meadowlands.


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## twaing (Nov 29, 2011)

just be nice. who cares who is you behind you.


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## WWayne (Jan 7, 2011)

*unwanted drafters*

"Unless you are the lead sled dog, the view is always the same."

At 71 years old with white hair spilling from the helmet I can't loose. It is either, you beat that old guy Ha or look he cleaned your clock.

Commuters in Texas rarely see each other let alone pair up. Weekend rides in the spandex crowd invites pace lines.

Strangers on new bikes can do unpredictable things. Riders on beat up bikes probably beat them up themselves. Either kind I don't want on my tail and I let them know.


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## Fredrico (Jun 15, 2002)

*You seem like a nice guy.*



turbodogs02 said:


> Ok, so I'm still a fairly new rider, about a year, and I usually ride alone for my daily rides....I'll typically ride on a "closed loop" that's about 3.5 miles around, and there are usually other cyclists as well. Typical ride is to loop the course for about an hour or two, then head off up for some hills or home, depending on the day.
> 
> So what would be considered "polite" when approaching another rider who is going approx. your same speed? Is it ok to tail for a minute, then pass and press on? Should you avoid slotting in behind at all costs and just hang off to the side or attempt to pass?
> 
> ...


I'd ride with you anytime. Hey, we oldsters know when some kid is playing games, and sometimes like to have fun with it.. :biggrin5:

If a few riders can get together when the situation arises and do some paceline work, that's great. I used to have the good fortune to do that regularly back in the 80s in Rock Creek Park, DC. Made lots of friends. But now there are about 5 times more riders, and everybody's riding solo. Riders tricked out on carbon bikes chase me down and pass, with not so much as an "On yer left."

I do hear the Tuesday evening hammerfest is still happening, though, and its got more riders than ever. I just think younger riders aren't as "community oriented" as we were. The novelty seems to have worn off. Gen X riders aren't as friendly as us latter day hippies from the 70s were. Yuppiedom seems to have taken over. :frown2:

But I still have hope. Coming on are these young people from mountain biking, taking the steel frames we rode and turning them into single speeds or fixies, trying to get back to the essence of cycling, free of digital electronic shifting, a thousand gears, and carbon fiber everything. They're keen on regaining that sense of community of men (and women!) on bikes that we had in the 80s. 

So keep it up. Spontaneously hooking up for a few laps with whoever else is willing, is where its at. :thumbsup:.


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## century (Nov 30, 2011)

T0mi said:


> Why do you care ?
> 
> Here in europe, everybody draft or is drafted without making any fuss about it. Is this a cultural problem ?


like this +1


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## century (Nov 30, 2011)

twaing said:


> just be nice. who cares who is you behind you.


I'm with you


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## hummina shadeeba (Oct 15, 2009)

I think "latching on" to someone without their permission is a no no. I have no problem with anyone who wants to ride at my pace, just not in my draft. It's dangerous and limits what I can do (no braking) and if they want to get a good ride in they should get in the wind anyway. But if anyone passes me I insist on riding at their speed - I am a pack animal and love the challenge. I will not draft anyone or get within 50 feet though. And I've encountered people who don't even like that, and that's fine, I do my own thing when I suspect that's the case


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## flannels (Nov 30, 2011)

bill2 said:


> i'm slow enough that this hardly ever happens. People usually go right ahead and pass me. In the rare event someone is even slower than me, i don't mind them drafting. I figure they have bonked and are in limp-home mode, or recovering from a prolonged illness.


+2....


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## flannels (Nov 30, 2011)

gumbyman said:


> some of you really appear to worry to much about what is behind you. The ride is in front of you; if it really bothers you make a simple right turn. Way too much thought is going into this. Take it as a compliment.


+1.....


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## flannels (Nov 30, 2011)

Sometimes these threads read too much like "Bike Forums"..gag

Just ride for fun..what better reason is there/


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## Tschai (Jun 19, 2003)

flannels said:


> Sometimes these threads read too much like "Bike Forums"..gag
> 
> Just ride for fun..what better reason is there/


I agree. We should just get rid of all bike forums and their content, informative, entertaining or otherwise, and replace these with "just ride for fun." It will save a ton of bandwidth as well.


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## Tig (Feb 9, 2004)

^ Ignore his "Aunt Flow" time of the month posts.


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## flannels (Nov 30, 2011)

*Agree*



Tschai said:


> I agree. We should just get rid of all bike forums and their content, informative, entertaining or otherwise, and replace these with "just ride for fun." It will save a ton of bandwidth as well.


i suggested that this back and forth small bickering could also mirror much of how others communicate on "Bike Forum"...not all forums, but the one called "Bike Forums". This bike forum generally is very helpful and informative. thanks anyway.


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## MTBryan01 (Oct 17, 2011)

Tschai said:


> I agree. We should just get rid of all bike forums and their content, informative, entertaining or otherwise, and replace these with "just ride for fun." It will save a ton of bandwidth as well.


No kidding! I don't think I've seen a nastier forum anywhere before. I think it reflects a wide range of personalities, skill levels and age groups that biking represents. 
Personally, if someone wants to hang on to my wheel, I think it's great. I might meet a new riding partner. That is IF they can hang on.  

Sent from my 4g Thunderbolt


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## Fredrico (Jun 15, 2002)

hummina shadeeba said:


> I think "latching on" to someone without their permission is a no no. I have no problem with anyone who wants to ride at my pace, just not in my draft. It's dangerous and limits what I can do (no braking) and if they want to get a good ride in they should get in the wind anyway. But if anyone passes me I insist on riding at their speed - I am a pack animal and love the challenge. I will not draft anyone or get within 50 feet though. And I've encountered people who don't even like that, and that's fine, I do my own thing when I suspect that's the case


Increasing speed to pace a passing rider can make him nervous. He just passed you and now can't drop you. Now he's gotta show he's strong enough to maintain the pace he used to catch you. That could wear some riders out, or set up a competitive situation, which is the point anyway, right? :biggrin5:


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## Fredrico (Jun 15, 2002)

*Nasty?*



MTBryan01 said:


> No kidding! I don't think I've seen a nastier forum anywhere before. I think it reflects a wide range of personalities, skill levels and age groups that biking represents.
> Personally, if someone wants to hang on to my wheel, I think it's great. I might meet a new riding partner. That is IF they can hang on.
> 
> Sent from my 4g Thunderbolt


We've got a lot of class here, a rich and varied assortment of opinions on the dynamics of road biking. But you seem okay with that.

I'd hang with ya for a while, even if you tried to drop me! :biggrin5: That's the whole point, right?


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## kbwh (May 28, 2010)

Road _biking_? Gimme a break.


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## MTBryan01 (Oct 17, 2011)

Fredrico said:


> We've got a lot of class here, a rich and varied assortment of opinions on the dynamics of road biking. But you seem okay with that.
> 
> I'd hang with ya for a while, even if you tried to drop me! :biggrin5: That's the whole point, right?


Exactly! I'll bet you could hang just fine! Besides, I wouldn't try and drop someone that shows a good attitude! 
Cheers...


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## bwbishop (Sep 17, 2011)

It's funny how cyclists complain about cars not sharing the road, then they turn around and b!tch about having to share the road with another cyclist...


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## AndreyT (Dec 1, 2011)

Er... Hmm.

The first thing the original poster needs to understand is that in 9 cases out of 10 the rider behind you has absolutely no clue about any "drafting" or "freeloading". They never heard the word. They are not "drafting" or "freeloading". They are just riding behind you without realizing that something could be wrong.

The second thing the original poster needs to understand is that such people often consider it _impolite_ to pass a rider in front when their speed is very close to yours. In order to pass they'd have to deliberately increase their speed above its "normal" value. They often believe that doing this for the sole purpose of passing you is a form of "one-upmanship". They believe that by allowing you to stay in front they politely demonstrate their respect to you.

Finally, the third thing the original poster needs to understand is that unless you are moving at competition-class speed in a competition-class environment, the concept of "drafting" simply does not apply. In such environments the idea of the guy behind you trying to "freeload" is simply preposterous, meaning that most likely you are simply imagining it and then getting fumed over the product of your own imagination.


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## century (Nov 30, 2011)

*I totally Agree*



AndreyT said:


> Er... Hmm.
> 
> The first thing the original poster needs to understand is that in 9 cases out of 10 the rider behind you has absolutely no clue about any "drafting" or "freeloading". They never heard the word. They are not "drafting" or "freeloading". They are just riding behind you without realizing that something could be wrong.
> 
> ...


This is just exactly whats in my mind. I second.


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## Incident (Nov 22, 2011)

Third! Although I don't stay close, I either pass and take off or get passed and die trying to catch them.


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## bike-md (Dec 6, 2011)

*Not everyone knows what drafting is.*



century said:


> This is just exactly whats in my mind. I second.


I agree, I never knew what drafting is until recently...even then, i was skeptical of its true effect. So if I was following behind, it was because I was going at a similar speed, and I didn't believe that I was strong enough to pass them and generate a big enough gap. As such, I would rather stay behind out of respect. Go figure, some douche bags don't like it 

People have to just relax...if you don't like being followed, then speed up or fall back.


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## velodog (Sep 26, 2007)

bike-md said:


> I agree, I never knew what drafting is until recently...even then, i was skeptical of its true effect. So if I was following behind, it was because I was going at a similar speed, and I didn't believe that I was strong enough to pass them and generate a big enough gap. As such, I would rather stay behind out of respect. Go figure, some douche bags don't like it
> 
> People have to just relax...if you don't like being followed, then speed up or fall back.


So you're drafting a stranger out of respect, but if that stranger doesn't like that he's a douche bag.
Now I'm confused, where's this respect of which you speak?


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## jerrycan42 (Aug 18, 2010)

*Can't wait....*

Can't wait for spring so we can all get out and ride and stop yammering about this tripe...


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## Fredrico (Jun 15, 2002)

*Yeah.*



velodog said:


> So you're drafting a stranger out of respect, but if that stranger doesn't like that he's a douche bag.
> Now I'm confused, where's this respect of which you speak?


I guess the drafter could fall back off the wheel of the "douche bag," and pace him from a quarter mile back! :biggrin5:

If that were me, I'd then chase the douche bag down right before a climb and pass him for all I was worth. :thumbsup: Name of the game, big dog! People drive their cars like that too.  They're the same people who can't stand to lose their place in a grocery checkout line!


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## bike-md (Dec 6, 2011)

*Not sure you get it*



velodog said:


> So you're drafting a stranger out of respect, but if that stranger doesn't like that he's a douche bag.
> Now I'm confused, where's this respect of which you speak?


I don't draft close by...more like keep pace, but I usually stay back at least a good 5-10ft minimum.

I never realized that some people's level of tolerance is so low as to think that I am being disrespectful by staying behind.

Mind you, if I was following too closely for a few km/miles...i could understand why some people would find that annoying.


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## edhchoe (Jun 3, 2007)

if a girl got behind me without asking I would not mind but if a guy did that I would freak out.
maybe i am homophobic.


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## velodog (Sep 26, 2007)

bike-md said:


> I don't draft close by...more like keep pace, but I usually stay back at least a good 5-10ft minimum.
> 
> I never realized that some people's level of tolerance is so low as to think that I am being disrespectful by staying behind.
> 
> Mind you, if I was following too closely for a few km/miles...i could understand why some people would find that annoying.


If you're speeds are synced up enough that you can follow why not throw a Howdy Do his way? Could find a new riding partner that way. Or you could find out that yeah, he is a giant douche bag.

But some people do get annoyed by another getting on their wheel uninvited so you might as well greet the guy and maybe offer to swap pulls for a little while. I said it earlier in this link that there's a difference between drafting and wheelsucking and I think that wheelsuckers are the problem, and that's the best reason to greet the other cyclist, so he doesn't think that you're a wheelsucker.


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## mpbspt (Aug 11, 2010)

It's like surfing - I will go out at my local spot at a beach that is a few miles long and paddle out all by myself. Then people show up and paddle out right next to me!!!!!! People are funny - they like to be around others.


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## singlespeedbuss (Aug 6, 2009)

Speed up, slow down or get the Hell out of the way. Have fun it`s bike riding for crying out loud.


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## Pitts Pilot (Dec 5, 2011)

Just for you guys, I am going to spend the next month drafting/wheelsucking. I'l report back to you the most effective methods people used to discourage me.

Tabled


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## velodog (Sep 26, 2007)

Pitts Pilot said:


> Just for you guys, I am going to spend the next month drafting/wheelsucking. I'l report back to you the most effective methods people used to discourage me.
> 
> Tabled


Good for you.
Let's see, they can slow enough for you to tire of the game and when you go around, get on your wheel and stay there for the rest of the day.
Or they can raise the speed, but not so fast to lose you, and bunny hop a large pot-hole that you won't see.
Or if they're a good enough bike handler they can brush your front wheel with their rear.
Have fun.


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## dmalley (Dec 7, 2011)

*rudeness abounds and it sucks dead rats*

I agree. Cyclists in my area are a varied lot. I have met the most delightful riders at times. I really enjoy cranking it up with this old guy like me. Long white hair in a pony tail beautiful steel vintage ride and this guy can go. I feel lucky to get on his wheel and ride sharing the front for as long as he will grace me with his presence then I die. Ha Ha.
This is the best but rare.
Most cyclists feel like they have a right to the road/path and expect others to get out of their way. I often nod or wave when I can to other cyclists. I ride hard so it is a subtle greeting but few respond. I understand. When your are training you concentrate on the road and one tends not to be social. Still, when there are lots of folks out, the day is superb and many are just recreating leisurely I acknowledge that areas and situations like this appropriately call for turning down the intensity and easing off to acknowledge and enjoy the surrounding environment. Invariably, the congestion will ease in a 1/4 to 1/2 mile and you can hammer some more.
I say hi to walkers, ladies with stroller and older folks. This is a way to alert them that I am there and spread some good will. I am watching out for our mutual safety and you know I just love being out. Cycling is a joy.
I have been a competitive athlete in track and field and I know the intensity and pressure to train endlessly at extremely high levels. Workouts need to be maximized, optimized and it is absolutely exhausting. Focus and committment is what it is all about but unless you are in a controlled environment like on a track or a closed/dedicated course it is important to recognize that our parks, bike paths and streets are a shared environment.
I have had one or two runners and walkers remark when I say hi that they are surprised by the salutation since most cylists are nasty, aggressive and cold. 
Wow you are a nice bike rider, we almost never so those" I have seen these guys too when running. It's kind of a "get the hell out of my way", "I'm coming fast" "Runners are supposed to be off to the side and I am cool as hell!"
It's the condescending attitude I object to. 
I ride fast and intently sometimes but with the recognition that going fast is what I choose to do in a shared environment and I must cycle respecting the presence of others. I wish the attitude was more like "I'm coming fast, thank you for sharing the road, isn't it great to be out here"
I work most days. My cycling is a joy and I appreciate the time out. Given how many gruff and inconsiderate people I meet in a day, in general while recreating and training I like to think that subset of folks are nicer, more enlightened and generous. It's a wish of course but one I choose to hold.


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## Oxtox (Aug 16, 2006)

dmalley said:


> Most cyclists feel like they have a right to the road/path and expect others to get out of their way.
> 
> ...most cylists are nasty, aggressive and cold.


generalize much...?


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