# Why Specialized Sucks...



## PlatyPius (Feb 1, 2009)

From BR&IN:



> LAS VEGAS, CA (BRAIN)--Bell Sports has filed a lawsuit against Specialized Bicycle Components claiming that the Morgan Hill, California, company has engaged in unfair and unlawful business practices.
> 
> In the complaint, filed Sept. 9 in the Superior Court of California, Santa Clara County, Bell Sports alleges that Specialized is attempting to force dealers to agree to not sell its Giro brand of cycling shoes.
> 
> ...


Bicycle Retailer and Industry News 


This is also, BTW, why I'll never carry Trek in my store. Bike shops and customers should have a choice of what products to carry/buy.


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## Richard (Feb 17, 2006)

We have been a Trek dealer for over 20 years and Trek has never, I repeat, NEVER told us we couldn't stock or carry any particular product or brand.

As to Specialized, I find it interesting that the two big "Concept" stores near us recently stopped carrying Sidi.


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## PlatyPius (Feb 1, 2009)

Richard said:


> We have been a Trek dealer *for over 20 years* and Trek has never, I repeat, NEVER told us we couldn't stock or carry any particular product or brand.
> 
> As to Specialized, I find it interesting that the two big "Concept" stores near us recently stopped carrying Sidi.


The important bit is in bold. You're already an established dealer. It's a different game for new dealers. I don't think they necessarily tell you what you can't sell, but they definitely tell you what you WILL sell.


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## Richard (Feb 17, 2006)

The fact of the matter is that all of the "Big Three" (Specialized, Giant and Trek) are pushing "Concept Stores" and the only new dealers they're picking up are going that way. And if you are a "Concept Store", you are committed to the "house brand" and restricted as to what else you will carry.

And truth be told, Trek is a great company to deal with, at least from our long time "established" dealer perspective.


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## mtrider05 (Aug 8, 2009)

I don't think either of the Specialized shops I frequent even sell anything other than Specialized shoes, or most other things for that matter. Either way, it's big business doing what big business does.


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## Cardinal200607 (Sep 16, 2011)

I gotta say, I have had good experience with specialized, short lived, as my bike was stolen two months ago!


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## Richard (Feb 17, 2006)

mtrider05 said:


> I don't think either of the Specialized shops I frequent even sell anything other than Specialized shoes, or most other things for that matter. Either way, it's big business doing what big business does.


And Specialized is "big business." They're 49% owned by Merida, the second biggest (behind Giant) bike maker in Taiwan and China.

People like to rag on Trek (one poster called them the General Motors of the bike biz.) But truth be told, they're the only family owned company of the the "Big Four" (if we throw in Canadian owned Cannondale.)


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## Salsa_Lover (Jul 6, 2008)

wasn't america the land where the free market was actually free ?


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## robdamanii (Feb 13, 2006)

Specialized is no stranger to douchebaggery:

Shut Up and Drink the Kool-Aid!: Stumptown Showdown: Specialized

That's the main reason I don't buy anything from Specialized, nor will I. I refuse to fund Sinyard's legal teams...


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## Chris-X (Aug 4, 2011)

Bullying tactics DEFINITELY influence my buying decisions.


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## Jetmugg (Sep 22, 2010)

This is not nearly as uncommon as you might think, in all kinds of dealer/distributor businesses. When you are a "house" dealer or distributor of parts, you are subject to the terms of your agreement with the supplier. It is not much different in the food supply business, clothing, automotive, etc. Williams-Sonoma doesn't carry certain brands of cutlery due to their agreements with their current cutlery suppliers. It seems like we might expect bicycle dealers to be "different", but it's simply not the case. You don't go to the Chevy dealer to get parts and accessories for your Ford. You don't get Bontrager parts from a non-Trek bike shop. And in this case, apparently you don't get Giro shoes from your Specialized dealer.


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## robdamanii (Feb 13, 2006)

Jetmugg said:


> This is not nearly as uncommon as you might think, in all kinds of dealer/distributor businesses. When you are a "house" dealer or distributor of parts, you are subject to the terms of your agreement with the supplier. It is not much different in the food supply business, clothing, automotive, etc. Williams-Sonoma doesn't carry certain brands of cutlery due to their agreements with their current cutlery suppliers. It seems like we might expect bicycle dealers to be "different", but it's simply not the case. You don't go to the Chevy dealer to get parts and accessories for your Ford. You don't get Bontrager parts from a non-Trek bike shop. And in this case, apparently you don't get Giro shoes from your Specialized dealer.


See this line:



> telling them what they can and can’t buy even if they’ve met the obligations of the agreement they signed with Specialized initially.


They're unfairly pushing competition out of the marketplace. Too bad their dealers don't tell them to go eff themselves.


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## vontress (Jul 19, 2009)

I've also seen this common in my industry, but it's done a little differently. They offer deeper discounting to the dealer to buy only house brand. Many choose to go that way because it makes financial sense. I, as a consumer, can still buy the other products, just not there. A little more subtle but still arm twisting of small businesses. It's still capitalism. Specialized is clearly trying to take out competitors and think that their product is in such demand, they can do this. My guess, they are right.


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## PlatyPius (Feb 1, 2009)

I think Giro should use this in their marketing....

"Shoes so good, our 'competition' bans their dealers from selling them!"


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## wim (Feb 28, 2005)

PlatyPius said:


> I think Giro should use this in their marketing....
> 
> "Shoes so good, our 'competition' bans their dealers from selling them!"


Any minute now, you're going to get a call from a legal entity on retainer to the company in question.


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## Kemmelberg (Dec 27, 2005)

*Abuse of market power*

Free markets should mean the company that makes a better product at a better price wins out. Specialized is apparently trying to use its market power to beat the competition instead of competing on the merits of their products. I find that to be the antithesis of free markets. Unfortunately, our courts have largely gutted the antitrust and unfair competition laws, and the little guys (consumers, small businesses) lose out as usual. Thanks to the OP for posting this. I personally will take into account Specialized's practices next time I have to buy a pair of shoes.


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## Straz85 (May 12, 2011)

PlatyPius said:


> The important bit is in bold. You're already an established dealer. It's a different game for new dealers. I don't think they necessarily tell you what you can't sell, but they definitely tell you what you WILL sell.


The LBS I regularly go to is a relatively new Trek dealer (last 5 years) and they definitely have <50% Trek/GF/Bontrager stuff in the store. The owner told me he won't carry Specialized because of the reasons in the OP. He also said that if you want to become a Trek Store (not just a Trek dealer) then there's a lot more regulations, but you can certainly carry their products without being told to get rid of other brands.


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## Oracle7775 (Sep 16, 2009)

What a mess. I'm involved in a matter right now dealing with a company engaged in similar anticompetitive behavior. This type of case is not usually as cut and dried as the quoted article would suggest, however. There are good arguments on both sides; the standards for such cases depend upon multi-factor analyses, which depend a lot on the factual particulars and the characteristics of the market.


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## Jay Strongbow (May 8, 2010)

Oracle7775 said:


> What a mess. I'm involved in a matter right now dealing with a company engaged in similar anticompetitive behavior. This type of case is not usually as cut and dried as the quoted article would suggest, however. *There are good arguments on both sides; * the standards for such cases depend upon multi-factor analyses, which depend a lot on the factual particulars and the characteristics of the market.


I think a retailer should be allowed to sell what they want to sell. What's the good argument on the other side of that?


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## PlatyPius (Feb 1, 2009)

Straz85 said:


> The LBS I regularly go to is a relatively new Trek dealer (last 5 years) and they definitely have <50% Trek/GF/Bontrager stuff in the store. The owner told me he won't carry Specialized because of the reasons in the OP. He also said that if you want to become a Trek Store (not just a Trek dealer) then there's a lot more regulations, but you can certainly carry their products without being told to get rid of other brands.



I should be more precise in my comments...

To be a new Trek dealer ** and make any kind of decent margin on bikes **, you have to carry what they tell you. Sure, a small dealer can pick up Trek for their store. However, Treks will sell better than their other brands - it's a sad but true reality. Their other brands probably get them 38%-42% margin on each bike. Trek probably gets them 30% margin; unless they're a "Trek Store". So, every Trek a shop sells takes profit away from them.

It's a similar situation with me and Jamis. I like Jamis. But to make any money on Jamis, you have to be a levelled dealer. To reach the first level, you have to buy $30,000 worth of bikes. My store doesn't even sell $30,000 worth of bikes (cost) in a year yet; let alone from one company. Ergo, if I try to sell someone a Jamis rather than a Raleigh or a Scott, I'm taking money away from myself. I still do it occasionally though, just because I don't believe any one brand has the best bike for all situations.


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## Oracle7775 (Sep 16, 2009)

Jay Strongbow said:


> I think a retailer should be allowed to sell what they want to sell. What's the good argument on the other side of that?


Just as the retailer has that right, so also does a supplier have a right to decline to do business with a party that does not want to sign the supplier's contract. American contract law is built on the presumption that sophisticated parties are free to negotiate the terms of their agreements, and that they know the ramifications of what they are signing. 500 years of Anglo/American jurisprudence say that Specialized has the right to walk away from a party that does not want to agree to the terms Specialized wants. So also does the retailer have the right to refuse Specialized's conditions, but the retailer has to first make a business judgment--whether the risks of refusal outweigh the benefits. It's the free market at work.

Consumer protection laws such as the antitrust laws at issue here are exceptions to the basic rule of freedom of contract. They guard against a company's unfair use of market power in a way that violates the public policy of promoting a free market. Whenever you hear about a big merger awaiting government approval, it's usually the FTC assessing whether the merger will have such a negative market inpact (e.g., AT&T and T-Mobile).

I don't know the particulars here, but Bell will likely have to show, among other things, that it does not have a viable distribution alternative for its shoes in a particular market other than the Specialized dealers in question.


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## robdamanii (Feb 13, 2006)

Oracle7775 said:


> Just as the retailer has that right, so also does a supplier have a right to decline to do business with a party that does not want to sign the supplier's contract. American contract law is built on the presumption that sophisticated parties are free to negotiate the terms of their agreements, and that they know the ramifications of what they are signing. 500 years of Anglo/American jurisprudence say that Specialized has the right to walk away from a party that does not want to agree to the terms Specialized wants. So also does the retailer have the right to refuse Specialized's conditions, but the retailer has to first make a business judgment--whether the risks of refusal outweigh the benefits. It's the free market at work.
> 
> Consumer protection laws such as the antitrust laws at issue here are exceptions to the basic rule of freedom of contract. They guard against a company's unfair use of market power in a way that violates the public policy of promoting a free market. Whenever you hear about a big merger awaiting government approval, it's usually the FTC assessing whether the merger will have such a negative market inpact (e.g., AT&T and T-Mobile).
> 
> I don't know the particulars here, but Bell will likely have to show, among other things, that it does not have a viable distribution alternative for its shoes in a particular market other than the Specialized dealers in question.


But does SpecialEd have the right to arbitrarily amend its dealer contracts to enforce this new rule? If the terms of the dealer's contract has been met for the year already, how can they simply say "Sorry, you carry XXX so the contract is null and void?"

Sounds like another case of SpecialEd's marketplace bullying and more of their standard BS.


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## bent steel (Dec 28, 2007)

This does make me want to toss my Specialized shoes and stop saying good things about them. I might also push my riding buddy with a Tarmac over next time we're out.


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## jmoryl (Sep 5, 2004)

As a old skool consumer, used to the days when a good shop carried an eclectic mix of stuff, I am bored to tears when I enter an "all Specialized, all the time" shop (same with some Trek, etc. shops). I was recently looking to replace my seat bag and, while I liked the looks of the Specialized bag, I wanted to be able to compare it to other brands. As a result, I walked out and will probably buy a bag elsewhere. 

It also seems like Specialized engages in a form or price fixing too, where everything is more or less sold at full retail (or else!).


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## Oracle7775 (Sep 16, 2009)

robdamanii said:


> But does SpecialEd have the right to arbitrarily amend its dealer contracts to enforce this new rule? If the terms of the dealer's contract has been met for the year already, how can they simply say "Sorry, you carry XXX so the contract is null and void?"
> 
> Sounds like another case of SpecialEd's marketplace bullying and more of their standard BS.


That's certainly one of the factors to consider. If Specialized's dealer contracts are one-sided (as I suspect they would be), then they very well may have the right to change the terms or set conditions. However, that would be a matter between the dealer and Spesh, and Bell would have no right to sue on the dealers' behalves.

A lot of dealership agreements are annually renewable, and this is usually the time of year that dealership renewals go out. So, it may be that Spesh has added this new provision to its new agreements for the next dealership year. Or, Spesh might have sent out a letter saying that Dealer X's choice to carry Giro shoes will be a factor in Specialized decision whether it will renew Dealer X's agreement for the next year.


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## robdamanii (Feb 13, 2006)

Oracle7775 said:


> That's certainly one of the factors to consider. If Specialized's dealer contracts are one-sided (as I suspect they would be), then they very well may have the right to change the terms or set conditions. However, that would be a matter between the dealer and Spesh, and Bell would have no right to sue on the dealers' behalves.
> 
> A lot of dealership agreements are annually renewable, and this is usually the time of year that dealership renewals go out. So, it may be that Spesh has added this new provision to its new agreements for the next dealership year. Or, Spesh might have sent out a letter saying that Dealer X's choice to carry Giro shoes will be a factor in Specialized decision whether it will renew Dealer X's agreement for the next year.


Still sounds like a case of Specialized trying to strongarm the dealers that move their goods in an attempt to get more market share. Shameful, any way you slice it.


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## Oracle7775 (Sep 16, 2009)

robdamanii said:


> Still sounds like a case of Specialized trying to strongarm the dealers that move their goods in an attempt to get more market share. Shameful, any way you slice it.


That's absolutely what they're trying to do. It's an ugly tactic for a company that's not confident that they can win on the quality of their product alone.

I'm not talking about whether or not it's morally represensible (it is); only whether it is legally actionable (it may not be, depending upon the particulars of the situation).


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## dcorn (Sep 1, 2011)

I don't really get why you guys care? Specialized seems to make really good stuff and has a lot of engineering in their cycling gear/bikes/etc. If you don't like em, don't buy it! Obviously there are shops that don't sell Specialized, so go buy your Giro shoes there! 

It does seem that a shop that sells their bikes will also sell all their accessories, but this isn't always true. Conte's is a high end bike shop near me and they sell all of Specialized's top S-works stuff, including shoes and helmets, plus they have numerous Venge/SL3/SL4/Shiv bikes around the shop. However, they also sell accessories and bikes from other super high end brands like Castelli, Pearl Izumi, Cervelo, Pinarello, Cannondale, Willier, etc. 


As far as the thing with the Stumptown bike, guess none of you guys drive mustangs. A few years back when the big 3 car companies were having rough times, Ford decided to threaten to sue every single company that made parts, clothes, or whatever that used the Mustang name. www.mustangtuning.com was forced to change their name. A small t-shirt company that made Ford enthusiast shirts with pictures of Mustangs and Lightnings on them was forced to shut down because they weren't allowed to use the Mustang 'likeness' anymore, even though the pictures were taken by random people of their own cars. A mustang forum had to stop selling their annual calendar of member's cars because they were making money selling pictures of Mustangs. It was nuts, but all legal. Amazing what companies will do to save money and keep away the competition.


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## robdamanii (Feb 13, 2006)

dcorn said:


> I don't really get why you guys care? Specialized seems to make really good stuff and has a lot of engineering in their cycling gear/bikes/etc. If you don't like em, don't buy it! Obviously there are shops that don't sell Specialized, so go buy your Giro shoes there!
> 
> It does seem that a shop that sells their bikes will also sell all their accessories, but this isn't always true. Conte's is a high end bike shop near me and they sell all of Specialized's top S-works stuff, including shoes and helmets, plus they have numerous Venge/SL3/SL4/Shiv bikes around the shop. However, they also sell accessories and bikes from other super high end brands like Castelli, Pearl Izumi, Cervelo, Pinarello, Cannondale, Willier, etc.
> 
> ...


I find SpecialEd's products to be far overpriced and poor quality compared to some other offerings.

Ford also sucks. You're comparing two companies that produce overpriced crap. What's your point?


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## jumpstumper (Aug 17, 2004)

Part of being in business means outsell your competitors. If Specialized wants to employ tactics that include removing a direct competitors products from its authorized retail shops, so what? Its part of good business sense. Ugly tactic? I don't think so. Walk into any authorized Apple store and tell me how many "Windows Enabled" PC's you'll find. Tell me how many new Ford Mustangs you'll find at a Chevy dealer.


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## dcorn (Sep 1, 2011)

robdamanii said:


> I find SpecialEd's products to be far overpriced and poor quality compared to some other offerings.
> 
> Ford also sucks. You're comparing two companies that produce overpriced crap. What's your point?


Thanks for your opinion. My point is that is how business works. A bike shop doesn't have to sell Specialized if they don't agree to the contract, just like everyone here has said. 

If you don't like Specialized stuff, don't buy it! I happen to love it and it's worked very well for me. Just the same as the Mustangs I've had. I modded the hell out of my mustang and drove it every day for 3 years and never had a thing go wrong. Sounds quality to me...



jumpstumper said:


> Part of being in business means outsell your competitors. If Specialized wants to employ tactics that include removing a direct competitors products from its authorized retail shops, so what? Its part of good business sense. Ugly tactic? I don't think so. Walk into any authorized Apple store and tell me how many "Windows Enabled" PC's you'll find. Tell me how many new Ford Mustangs you'll find at a Chevy dealer.


That's very true. And like I said before, if you don't like specialized gear, there are tons of stores that don't sell it! Just like if you don't want to buy a Ford, don't go to a Ford dealer to purchase a car.


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## Dave Hickey (Jan 27, 2002)

As others have said, it's fairly common in retail for companies to dictate what can and cannot be sold...

The only way I see Specialized changing this policy is to have a unified dealer protest....


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## GRAVELBIKE (Sep 16, 2011)

Some interesting reading here:

*Bell Sports Files Suit Against Specialized
*
LAS VEGAS, CA (BRAIN)--Bell Sports has filed a lawsuit against Specialized Bicycle Components claiming that the Morgan Hill, California, company has engaged in unfair and unlawful business practices. (Click on title to download PDF of Show Daily 3).

In the complaint, filed Sept. 9 in the Superior Court of California, Santa Clara County, Bell Sports alleges that Specialized is attempting to force dealers to agree to not sell its Giro brand of cycling shoes. 

“We received notice about this Friday and responded to the court on Wednesday,” said Mike Sinyard, president of Specialized. “The court held a hearing and we are respectfully awaiting the judge’s decision.”

According to the court documents, Specialized issued an addendum to its dealer agreement asking dealers to agree to no longer purchase or sell Giro cycling shoes, and that Bell “suffered and continues to suffer an increasing decline in market share as a result.” 

“The dealer addendum has unlawfully restrained and will continue to unlawfully restrain the sale of Giro cycling shoes … and will substantially prevent Giro cycling shoes from competing with Specialized’s cycling shoes,” the complaint stated. 

Bell Sports alleges that Specialized threatened to withhold high-end bicycle inventory from dealers carrying Giro cycling shoes and that some dealers were told they would not receive their year-end purchase volume incentives or manufacturer rebates if they continued to sell Giro cycling shoes. As a result, 

Specialized dealers who carry Giro shoes have canceled existing orders, retracted on verbal product orders or asked Giro to take back inventory on their shelves, the suit documents stated. 

“A line has been crossed,” said Greg Shapleigh, senior vice president of Giro and Easton Cycling. “They’ve stopped simply providing financial incentives for retailers who support their brand and their business to telling them what they can and can’t buy even if they’ve met the obligations of the agreement they signed with Specialized initially. Retailers can’t buy the products they think are right for their business and consumers don’t in many cases have all the choices that they should have. All we want is the ability to sell our footwear to dealers who want to carry it.”

In addition to the lawsuit, Bell Sports filed for a temporary restraining order and preliminary injunctive relief asking that Specialized cease and desist from engaging in these practices. 

As of press time, no ruling had been reached on the case and the next court date was scheduled for Feb. 14, 2012.

-Lynette Carpiet


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## Straz85 (May 12, 2011)

jumpstumper said:


> Part of being in business means outsell your competitors. If Specialized wants to employ tactics that include removing a direct competitors products from its authorized retail shops, so what? Its part of good business sense. Ugly tactic? I don't think so. Walk into any authorized Apple store and tell me how many "Windows Enabled" PC's you'll find. Tell me how many new Ford Mustangs you'll find at a Chevy dealer.


Wow, talk about apples and oranges. Apple stores are corporate owned, not privately owned businesses, so that argument is completely ridiculous. Additionally, there are plenty of car dealerships that sell multiple brands. And do you know for a fact that car manufacturers tell privately owned dealerships "you can only sell our products"? Personally, I've never heard of that, and just about every car manufacturer I can think of is sold at a dealership that sells multiple others. The Ford dealership I visited recently just picked up VW, they also sell Honda, Mazda in addition to other brands. Look up Herb Chambers or Ira Motor Group, both sell multiple different brands.




PlatyPius said:


> I should be more precise in my comments...
> 
> To be a new Trek dealer ** and make any kind of decent margin on bikes **, you have to carry what they tell you. Sure, a small dealer can pick up Trek for their store. However, Treks will sell better than their other brands - it's a sad but true reality. Their other brands probably get them 38%-42% margin on each bike. Trek probably gets them 30% margin; unless they're a "Trek Store". So, every Trek a shop sells takes profit away from them.
> 
> It's a similar situation with me and Jamis. I like Jamis. But to make any money on Jamis, you have to be a levelled dealer. To reach the first level, you have to buy $30,000 worth of bikes. My store doesn't even sell $30,000 worth of bikes (cost) in a year yet; let alone from one company. Ergo, if I try to sell someone a Jamis rather than a Raleigh or a Scott, I'm taking money away from myself. I still do it occasionally though, just because I don't believe any one brand has the best bike for all situations.


Thank you for that explanation, makes more sense. Still doesn't sound nearly as shady as what Specialized is doing, but still frustrating.


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## Jay Strongbow (May 8, 2010)

Okay I guess last few posts have settled it.

So in conclusion:
-If something is common that means there's nothing wrong with it and it is beyond questioning.
-Two wrongs make a right. (re apple, ford ect examples)

Gotta love the internet.


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## robdamanii (Feb 13, 2006)

dcorn said:


> Thanks for your opinion. My point is that is how business works. A bike shop doesn't have to sell Specialized if they don't agree to the contract, just like everyone here has said.
> 
> If you don't like Specialized stuff, don't buy it! I happen to love it and it's worked very well for me. Just the same as the Mustangs I've had. I modded the hell out of my mustang and drove it every day for 3 years and never had a thing go wrong. Sounds quality to me...
> 
> ...


Business does not work by strongarming the dealers that sell your product. That's just stupid business practices.

Furthermore, you asked earlier why we care. We care because we like choice, and we like the companies that produce our equipment to not be enormous douchebags (well, some of us do anyway.) If you don't care about the moral compass of the companies you purchase from, that's your business. Some of us care where we spend our dollars, and I stay away from companies like SpecialEd, specifically because of their (lack of) morals.

And Ford still sucks.


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## Oracle7775 (Sep 16, 2009)

jumpstumper said:


> Part of being in business means outsell your competitors. If Specialized wants to employ tactics that include removing a direct competitors products from its authorized retail shops, so what? Its part of good business sense. Ugly tactic? I don't think so. Walk into any authorized Apple store and tell me how many "Windows Enabled" PC's you'll find. Tell me how many new Ford Mustangs you'll find at a Chevy dealer.


It's not ugly to seek exclusive dealerhsip arrangements and to enforce them. If the dealers in question were exclusive dealers and were still carrying Giro shoes, that's one situation. Heck, I've represented companies seeking to enforce such provisions. But it doesn't sound like Spesh had exclusive contracts here (maybe they did). If that's the case, then it is kind of ugly to nakedly threaten your dealers with retribution if they don't comply with your mandate. I mean, Spesh's actions are actually causing the dealers to breach their contracts with Giro. Yikes.

Again, it may be within the purview of the law, and it is a tactic condoned by our economic system, but it is still ugly. Hey, that's the real world.


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## DIRT BOY (Aug 22, 2002)

jumpstumper said:


> Part of being in business means outsell your competitors. If Specialized wants to employ tactics that include removing a direct competitors products from its authorized retail shops, so what? Its part of good business sense. Ugly tactic? I don't think so. Walk into any authorized Apple store and tell me how many "Windows Enabled" PC's you'll find. Tell me how many new Ford Mustangs you'll find at a Chevy dealer.


Not even close or the same thing, but thanks for playing.

These are NOT Specialized concept stores. Just regular shops.

I like Specialized as a company, think they make good products, but have some questionable business tactics. But this goes BEYOND anything they have done before.

Problem, 99% of the dealers don't have the funds and money to protest Specialized on this. I mean is they can't take a chance they loose their lively hood. 

But I hope a good amount of HUGE shops will challenge them.


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## 32and3cross (Feb 28, 2005)

I agree with Dirt Boy, I love my Specialized bike and shoes and the engineering they put into their products, but Im not so fond of their biz practices. 

Weirdly I am in the market for new MTB shoes and while I would love to get some Specialized I can afford them so I'm getting some Giro's (decided before I read this thread).


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## Herbie (Nov 12, 2010)

You cannot amend the contract or take away benefits already earned in almost every case I have seen. However you can enforce the agreement as written. 

My experience as a 'recovering" attorney makes me say that it is best to wait for the outcome. any one can say say pretty much anything they want in the allegations.

free enterprise means that specialized does not have to sell through someone who does not wish to abide by the condidtions set in their agreement, and no bike shop has to sell specialized bikes.


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## MAS-SD (Jun 14, 2008)

This is common practice in big business...increase barriers to entry and supply chains to increase market share. This doesn't bother me at all. Specialized makes great products and if you want those other brands there are other ways to get them.


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## bent steel (Dec 28, 2007)

MAS-SD said:


> This is common practice in big business...increase barriers to entry and supply chains to increase market share. This doesn't bother me at all. Specialized makes great products and if you want those other brands there are other ways to get them.



I agree to some extent, but in a time when LBS's are suffering from the likes of national (and international) stores, this doesn't help their case. For example, I'm dealing with my single speed mountain bike at the moment, and without really intending to, I realized I have a different brand on just about everything. The only components that actually match are the bar and stem are both the same brand. It has a SRAM chain, but nothing else from the big boys. Walking into a store with all Specialized stuff would result in a quick turn around for me and mentally crossing that store off of my list of places to shop.

I don't hate Specialized, in fact I respect them as a company and love their shoes. However I don't want their rebranded tires, rain jackets, floor pumps or bibs. If I have the freedom to shop for any product on the internet, but not locally, guess where I'll do my shopping?


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## superjesus (Jul 26, 2010)

If Spec can dictate what shoes their dealers can and cannot carry, what is stopping Spec from dictating what gloves, clothing, accessories, helmets, and ultimately what bikes a dealer can carry? 

Giro helmets, shoes and gloves directly compete with Spec. Why isn't Spec forcing dealers to quit carrying other Giro products like helmets and gloves? 

Either way, I don't like the way the big boys conduct their business.


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## The Mountaineer (Nov 11, 2010)

Wait, Specialized makes good shoes? Between their funky sole and awkward heel height I‘m surprised they even sell. 

Yes, I am extremely biased, Spec shoes and my feet do not get along.


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## Mr. Versatile (Nov 24, 2005)

PlatyPius said:


> I think Giro should use this in their marketing....
> 
> "Shoes so good, our 'competition' bans their dealers from selling them!"


:lol: LMAO! You got rep for that one. :lol:


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## spookyload (Jan 30, 2004)

PlatyPius said:


> I think Giro should use this in their marketing....
> 
> "Shoes so good, our 'competition' bans their dealers from selling them!"


How about "Shoes so good I have never seen anyone wear them". Seriously...never seen a Giro product besides their helmets.


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## superjesus (Jul 26, 2010)

spookyload said:


> How about "Shoes so good I have never seen anyone wear them". Seriously...never seen a Giro product besides their helmets.


So Specialized's tactics are working. You can't buy a product that you can't find. 

I tried a few of their shoes on at an REI. They are priced a bit high compared to other similarly equipped shoes. I found the Giros to be generally comfortable and well constructed, but the arches were very high. 

Giro also makes gloves and sunglasses.


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## Stealthammer (May 16, 2009)

This is simply the American way. If a lawsuit is filed against Specialized they will simply make somw campain contributions and it will all go away. Then they will raise their prices to the dealers and blame the whole mess on Giro because the are a "Italian"......


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## PlatyPius (Feb 1, 2009)

Stealthammer said:


> This is simply the American way. If a lawsuit is filed against Specialized they will simply make somw campain contributions and it will all go away. Then they will raise their prices to the dealers and blame the whole mess on Giro because the are a "Italian"......


In my fantasy world, I like to believe that no one is stupid enough to not know that Giro/Bell/Easton is an American company...


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## Dave Hickey (Jan 27, 2002)

Jay Strongbow said:


> Gotta love the internet.


you sure do.....especially when someone reads something into a post that was never said...:mad2:

I never said it was right...... I simply stated a fact... It is common in retailing for companies to dictate what can or cannot be sold....

and one possible solution to the issue is to get the Specialized dealers to complain as a group to Specialized...


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## PlatyPius (Feb 1, 2009)

spookyload said:


> How about "Shoes so good I have never seen anyone wear them". Seriously...never seen a Giro product besides their helmets.


And yet, here in Podunk, Indiana I've seen people wearing their shoes, sunglasses, and helmets....


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## DiegoMontoya (Apr 11, 2010)

There is absolutely nothing special about Specialized. They mass-produce carbon frames in China, mark them up to exhorbitant prices, then dump them in the US market. They're all marketing. 

Crap company who knows they cannot compete on quality.


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## Jesse D Smith (Jun 11, 2005)

*Why the shoes?*

I'm curious why are they focusing the "ban" on Giro shoes? Specialized makes helmets, saddles, gloves and other products that Giro also makes.
And why are they focusing the ban on that particular brand of shoes? Why not extend the ban to all other shoe manufacturers? Is it because Giro is relatively new to shoes, so they want to prevent them from gaining a foothold?


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## Stealthammer (May 16, 2009)

PlatyPius said:


> In my fantasy world, I like to believe that no one is stupid enough to not know that Giro/Bell/Easton is an American company...


Or that Specialized is owned by Taiwan and China.....

No big deal either was though, I vowed to never buy anything from Specialized after meeting Mike Sinyard at Interbike in 1990. He reminded me too much of A.J. Foyt (i.e., a ...[Edited in respect for family content]).


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## DIRT BOY (Aug 22, 2002)

Jesse D Smith said:


> I'm curious why are they focusing the "ban" on Giro shoes? Specialized makes helmets, saddles, gloves and other products that Giro also makes.
> And why are they focusing the ban on that particular brand of shoes? Why not extend the ban to all other shoe manufacturers? Is it because Giro is relatively new to shoes, so they want to prevent them from gaining a foothold?


I assume that the other items Spec does care about or make a huge profit on. Plus they are not big sellers. But their shoes are big sellers, are a very nice product and they make huge margins on them.

Now Giro comes in and they are making REALLY nice shoes, so Spec is worried.

Just wait until they start making a group set and tell dealers they can't sell Shimano or SRAM. :thumbsup:


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## DIRT BOY (Aug 22, 2002)

What Specialized is going to do, they are going to force most their top dealers to be a concept store or loose their top bikes. So dealers will abide or go to another brand.

As more and more brands just kinda blend in together, as they all seem similar and come from the same factories, LBS will have to move on to other brands and educate the avg consumer about their other brands. Most well researched consumer already know this and this is why smaller brands in generic frames are taking off.

But Specialized know they have dealers by the balls and most consumers, as they make a really nice and well selling product that sells. My wife has owned 5 Spec bikes and they all have been fantastic and well taken care of on any issues via Specialize and there dealers.


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## Roam (Sep 14, 2011)

Thats weird.


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## DaveG (Feb 4, 2004)

*Specialized store*



PlatyPius said:


> From BR&IN:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


There was a shop I liked to go to that had a wide variety of stuff. In particular I bought Diadora shoes there which I like a lot. They did a bit remodel and afterward it was nearly 100% Specialized. I guess they went down that path. I don't bother going there anymore


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## GRAVELBIKE (Sep 16, 2011)

More interesting reading:

http://forums.mtbr.com/california-n...ic-designs-adventure-cycling-gear-581818.html


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## bikerjulio (Jan 19, 2010)

DaveG said:


> There was a shop I liked to go to that had a wide variety of stuff. In particular I bought Diadora shoes there which I like a lot. They did a bit remodel and afterward it was nearly 100% Specialized. I guess they went down that path. I don't bother going there anymore


exact same thing happened to a store here west of toronto. used to carry a variety of stuff. next time I go in it's like a 100% spec showroom - bikes - shoes - shirts - tires - helmets. everything.

happened several years ago so this is nothing new.


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## superjesus (Jul 26, 2010)

DIRT BOY said:


> What Specialized is going to do, they are going to force most their top dealers to be a concept store or loose their top bikes. So dealers will abide or go to another brand...
> 
> But Specialized know they have dealers by the balls and most consumers, as they make a really nice and well selling product that sells. My wife has owned 5 Spec bikes and they all have been fantastic and well taken care of on any issues via Specialize and there dealers.


IME, more than withfans of other brands, Spec fans really, really love Spec.


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## jrsbike (Sep 17, 2011)

All this will send more consumers to the internet and hurt local vendors. Its what's happening in a number of different businesses.


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## QQUIKM3 (Apr 20, 2008)

*I totaly agree. .*



PlatyPius said:


> This is also, BTW, why I'll never carry Trek in my store. Bike shops and customers should have a choice of what products to carry/buy.


Trek sucks anyway. I've dissuaded a number of people from buying their garbage.


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## Don4 (Jul 29, 2010)

Dave Hickey said:


> you sure do.....especially when someone reads something into a post that was never said...:mad2:
> 
> I never said it was right...... I simply stated a fact... It is common in retailing for companies to dictate what can or cannot be sold....
> 
> and one possible solution to the issue is to get the Specialized dealers to complain as a group to Specialized...


And yet it is so hard to understand how this isn't restraint of trade and should be illegal. Contracts can say anything, I guess. In my opinion, your contract with me can be as specific as you wish with how I market and sell your product, but the moment you try to control a competitors product, you are in engaging in restraint of trade and attempting to control the market.

Go fish!


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## Kontact (Apr 1, 2011)

I think that this sort of thing will work itself out. It probably doesn't hurt the Specialized dealers all that much in the short term, and someone looking for Giro shoes is going to go to a dealer that offers them. In the long term, a couple bad years for Specialized (unpopular designs, a major recall, etc) and dealers who have gone 100% Specialized are either going to go out of business or drop the line. There's a reason we talk about Nishiki, Bridgestone, Miyata, Schwinn, Univega and Gitane in the past tense - having a good business today is no guarantee for the future.

Clearly, this will hurt Bell this year, but this old and slowly expanding line isn't going away, and this is an opportunity to go into new shops that sell the variety consumers crave. I prefer to sell my saddles at stores that feature choice, not exclusivity.

I certainly don't admire Specialized for doing this, but I think they are just going to hurt themselves in the long run, so I don't really mind. I never walk into Erik's here in the midwest - there's only one brand to look at. Boring.


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## seacoaster (May 9, 2010)

Jesse D Smith said:


> Giro is relatively new to shoes, so they want to prevent them from gaining a foothold?


Was that pun intentional?


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## vagabondcyclist (Apr 2, 2011)

Kontact said:


> In the long term, a couple bad years for Specialized (unpopular designs, a major recall, etc) and dealers who have gone 100% Specialized are either going to go out of business or drop the line. There's a reason we talk about Nishiki, Bridgestone, Miyata, Schwinn, Univega and Gitane in the past tense - having a good business today is no guarantee for the future.


Yep, remember all those Schwinn shops? As an independent retailer, I'd be wary of putting all of my eggs in one basket. 

As a consumer, I like a bit of choice, especially when it comes to things like shoes and I really don't want to drive all over the place to try on two or three different brands for fit. That doesn't mean every shop has to carry every brand, but more than one brand of shoes, bikes, gloves, helmets, etc. should be a given as these are items that should fit. They're not like a bag or computer that either work or don't work or have the features or don't have the features I'm looking for.


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## red elvis (Sep 9, 2010)

Cardinal200607 said:


> I gotta say, I have had good experience with specialized, short lived, as my bike was stolen two months ago!


where do you live? my friend just bought a cheap specialized bike from craigslist yesterday. what annoys me is that he knew its stolen and still buys it anyway.


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## ddimick (Aug 9, 2011)

red elvis said:


> where do you live? my friend just bought a cheap specialized bike from craigslist yesterday. what annoys me is that he knew its stolen and still buys it anyway.


Let your friend know he may be committing a felony if he really does know it's stolen. Otherwise it's probably a misdemeanor.


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## red elvis (Sep 9, 2010)

i'm sure he knows the consequence of what he was doing. this reminds me when i was hanging out my at lbs one day. some kid went in and tried to sell a pink cruiser to my friend. after he left my friend said," Oh I wish I could beat up that punk so i can put some sense on his stupid head! "


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## Killroy (Feb 9, 2006)

Sounds like normal business stuff. Welcome to the real world.


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## danl1 (Jul 23, 2005)

PlatyPius said:


> I should be more precise in my comments...
> 
> To be a new Trek dealer ** and make any kind of decent margin on bikes **, you have to carry what they tell you. Sure, a small dealer can pick up Trek for their store. However, Treks will sell better than their other brands - it's a sad but true reality. Their other brands probably get them 38%-42% margin on each bike. Trek probably gets them 30% margin; unless they're a "Trek Store". So, every Trek a shop sells takes profit away from them.
> 
> It's a similar situation with me and Jamis. I like Jamis. But to make any money on Jamis, you have to be a levelled dealer. To reach the first level, you have to buy $30,000 worth of bikes. My store doesn't even sell $30,000 worth of bikes (cost) in a year yet; let alone from one company. Ergo, if I try to sell someone a Jamis rather than a Raleigh or a Scott, I'm taking money away from myself. I still do it occasionally though, just because I don't believe any one brand has the best bike for all situations.


That's an interesting take on economics. It's marginally valid if you are the only bike seller in town; you are certain to sell some bike to every rube that walks in the door; and that everyone looking for a bike-shaped-object can successfully be sold brand-name kit. That would be a smashing market to be in.

But the more conventional reality is that someone walks in the door because you carry a brand they're interested in buying. In that reality, every sale represents a profit, tighter margin be damned.


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## PlatyPius (Feb 1, 2009)

danl1 said:


> That's an interesting take on economics. It's marginally valid if you are the only bike seller in town; you are certain to sell some bike to every rube that walks in the door; and that everyone looking for a bike-shaped-object can successfully be sold brand-name kit. That would be a smashing market to be in.
> 
> But the more conventional reality is that someone walks in the door because you carry a brand they're interested in buying. In that reality, every sale represents a profit, tighter margin be damned.


I'm the only bike seller in a 35 mile radius (Not including WalMart).


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## Kontact (Apr 1, 2011)

PlatyPius said:


> I'm the only bike seller in a 35 mile radius (Not including WalMart).


No competition for 35 miles, and you only carry Scott, Jamis and Raleigh?


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## mick wolfe (Feb 15, 2004)

spookyload said:


> How about "Shoes so good I have never seen anyone wear them". Seriously...never seen a Giro product besides their helmets.


That makes two of us. For the record, I've had a good quality experience with virtually every Specialized product I've bought. That includes three bikes, four pairs of shoes and numerous jerseys, gloves, etc. Every dealer( I'm aware of) that sells Specialized bikes here in Tucson still has a variety of non Specialized bikes and products available. This all said, I'm sure Specialized is just about as cut-throat and aggressive as I'm finding most companies today.


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## PlatyPius (Feb 1, 2009)

Kontact said:


> No competition for 35 miles, and you only carry Scott, Jamis and Raleigh?


Scott, Jamis, Raleigh, Felt soon, Cyfac, TIME, De Rosa, Lynskey, Torker, Redline, Soma, and Gunnar.


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## Creakyknees (Sep 21, 2003)

Helments cramp my style, but Garneau are the best.


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## Killroy (Feb 9, 2006)

mick wolfe said:


> That makes two of us. For the record, I've had a good quality experience with virtually every Specialized product I've bought. That includes three bikes, four pairs of shoes and numerous jerseys, gloves, etc. Every dealer( I'm aware of) that sells Specialized bikes here in Tucson still has a variety of non Specialized bikes and products available. This all said, I'm sure Specialized is just about as cut-throat and aggressive as I'm finding most companies today.


I have worn specialized shoes only for the past 11 years. That includes different shoes for mountain, road and commuting.


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## bike981 (Sep 14, 2010)

PlatyPius said:


> To be a new Trek dealer ** and make any kind of decent margin on bikes **, you have to carry what they tell you. Sure, a small dealer can pick up Trek for their store. However, Treks will sell better than their other brands - it's a sad but true reality. Their other brands probably get them 38%-42% margin on each bike. Trek probably gets them 30% margin; unless they're a "Trek Store". So, every Trek a shop sells takes profit away from them.


I don't follow. It only "takes profit away" if the buyer would have purchased another brand of bike from your store had you not carried Trek. You typically can't know if that would have been the case, right? Heck, even if you never sell a Trek at all, having your store come up when people search for dealers on the Trek web site can bring customers into the store who might not have come in at all. (That may not be true in your area, but seems reasonable in an area with a higher density of LBS's.) You may be pissed about being strongarmed, but I don't think it's quite as one-sided as you imply.


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## qatarbhoy (Aug 17, 2009)

PlatyPius said:


> Scott, Jamis, Raleigh, Felt soon, Cyfac, TIME, De Rosa, Lynskey, Torker, Redline, Soma, and Gunnar.


Is that all?


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## robdamanii (Feb 13, 2006)

qatarbhoy said:


> Is that all?


No Look, no care!

But I hear he also deals in shady black market framesets from the orient.


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## PlatyPius (Feb 1, 2009)

qatarbhoy said:


> Is that all?


well.... technically, I'm a Schwinn/GT dealer, too.


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## mafpolo (Oct 10, 2008)

*Sounds pretty simple to me*

If you want to be specialized dealer, they have requirements.....like other dealers of other products must agree to. Manufacturers often "force" dealers to buy x amount of inventory to become a dealer.

So, if you want to be a Specialized dealer, you know you're not selling Bell's shoes. If you want to sell Bell shoes, don't be a Specialized dealer. May not be fair, but I can't see where it's unlawful. 

Also, as to the post about Specialized being crap, because the frames are made in China, can you be more specific. What makes the specialized crap? I am not sure, but I believe that certain high end Specialized frames are made in the US.

Trek frames are made in Taiwan. Kuota's frames are made in China. Some frames are made in Italy, some in France, some here. 

If the frame is well designed, the jigs are well made, the carbon fiber is extremely good, and the quality control is good, I don't care where the bike is made. I would prefer "Made in the USA," as we need more goods manufactured here.

A little more specific on the Specialized is crap comment....I'd really like to know


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## curtibiker (Nov 6, 2008)

It appears as though the OP and the other posters are taking as gospel truth everything that is stated in the original Complaint filed in the California lawsuit. However, as a lawyer, I can tell you that is only one side of the story, and not necessarily the true side. Anyone who can afford the filing fee can file a suit and can claim nearly anything. This is why there are courts, judges and oftentimes juries to decide what actually happened, or can be proven to have happened. Wait until the court decides before chastising Specialized, or Trek, or anyone else who is claimed to have "done me wrong".


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## PlatyPius (Feb 1, 2009)

curtibiker said:


> It appears as though the OP and the other posters are taking as gospel truth everything that is stated in the original Complaint filed in the California lawsuit. However, as a lawyer, I can tell you that is only one side of the story, and not necessarily the true side. Anyone who can afford the filing fee can file a suit and can claim nearly anything. This is why there are courts, judges and oftentimes juries to decide what actually happened, or can be proven to have happened. Wait until the court decides before chastising Specialized, or Trek, or anyone else who is claimed to have "done me wrong".


I've been in the industry long enough to know that pretty much any such claim made against Specialized is most likely true. Besides, I've heard mumblings of this from Big S dealers.


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## MerlinAma (Oct 11, 2005)

Another example of big Corp bullying - 
BikePortland.org » Blog Archive » Epic Wheel Works will change name due to potential trademark conflict with Specialized


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## petalpower (Aug 10, 2009)

curtibiker said:


> It appears as though the OP and the other posters are taking as gospel truth everything that is stated in the original Complaint filed in the California lawsuit. However, as a lawyer, I can tell you that is only one side of the story, and not necessarily the true side. Anyone who can afford the filing fee can file a suit and can claim nearly anything. This is why there are courts, judges and oftentimes juries to decide what actually happened, or can be proven to have happened. Wait until the court decides before chastising Specialized, or Trek, or anyone else who is claimed to have "done me wrong".


Stop with your common sense - you're going to derail a nice, ignorant fueled bashing thread.


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## mobilesleepy (Nov 11, 2010)

How dare people criticize a multi-million dollar bicycle company with a myriad of products and concept stores? The nerve!


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## froze (Sep 15, 2002)

Richard said:


> We have been a Trek dealer for over 20 years and Trek has never, I repeat, NEVER told us we couldn't stock or carry any particular product or brand.
> 
> As to Specialized, I find it interesting that the two big "Concept" stores near us recently stopped carrying Sidi.



That's odd, because I know a guy that owned a now defunct bike store in Fort Wayne Indiana who had the exclusive rights to sell Trek in town, but in order to do so they had to stop selling Cannondale, carry only Trek helmets meaning they had to drop the Giro line and another line I can't recall the name of, drop Cateye computers and lights and replace them with the Trek brand.

What's odder, is when the above LBS went out of business three years ago, Trek got another LBS to sponsor their products...but with that bike shop none of the limitations were imposed that were imposed on the defunct one. But I haven't been able to find out if they had other limitations imposed upon them, their tight lipped. I do know they carry Serrota yet and Specialized, but they dropped Cannondale, and Trek takes up most of the showroom floor. I also noticed they carry a lot of Bontrager stuff now and less of Cateye.


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## qatarbhoy (Aug 17, 2009)

This thread needs more anecdotal evidence. That is the best kind.


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## Kontact (Apr 1, 2011)

qatarbhoy said:


> This thread needs more anecdotal evidence. That is the best kind.


Did you sense someone might have been saying un-nice things about Trek? Did you get here in time to stop it?


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## Tschai (Jun 19, 2003)

robdamanii said:


> But does SpecialEd have the right to arbitrarily amend its dealer contracts to enforce this new rule? If the terms of the dealer's contract has been met for the year already, how can they simply say "Sorry, you carry XXX so the contract is null and void?"
> 
> Sounds like another case of SpecialEd's marketplace bullying and more of their standard BS.


Addendums are done all the time. Conclusions based on simple news articles, and without reviewing all of the relevant agreements, are often way off the mark. Also, as has been said, the parties to the agreements are the bike shops and Specialized, not Giro.

In any case, I suspect that even if the court rules that dealers can sell Giro shoes, the Specialized dealers will choose not to anyway.


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## Tschai (Jun 19, 2003)

Oracle7775 said:


> That's absolutely what they're trying to do. It's an ugly tactic for a company that's not confident that they can win on the quality of their product alone.


I disagree. My guess is that Specialized is very confident about the quality of their product.


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## robdamanii (Feb 13, 2006)

Tschai said:


> Addendums are done all the time. Conclusions based on simple news articles, and without reviewing all of the relevant agreements, are often way off the mark. Also, as has been said, the parties to the agreements are the bike shops and Specialized, not Giro.
> 
> In any case, I suspect that even if the court rules that dealers can sell Giro shoes, the Specialized dealers will choose not to anyway.


Why would they choose not to? The parties in question supposedly already have inventory or have signed sales contracts with Bell/Giro, so why would they now turn around and say "nah, not interested?"


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## Tschai (Jun 19, 2003)

robdamanii said:


> Why would they choose not to? The parties in question supposedly already have inventory or have signed sales contracts with Bell/Giro, so why would they now turn around and say "nah, not interested?"


I suspect that they would want to remain on good terms with Specialized, which is likely their "bread and butter", even if they are legally entitled to sell the Giro products. I just don't see many shops rocking the Specialized boat so they can sell Giro shoes.


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## Rugergundog (Apr 2, 2011)

This is an interesting read. This spring i was looking for shoes and in my area of Mid michigan all the TREK stores only sell Bontrager shoes while the Specialized only carry Specialized shoes. I was looking fir Giro shoes and could not find them other than on-line. I didn't even put 2 and 2 together. However we do have a store a bit south that carries TREK and sells SIDI as well.

All of this crazy crap going on and people wonder why we shop outside of the LBS and buy from catalogs and online.

This is america.......let the consumer decide what he wants!


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## PlatyPius (Feb 1, 2009)

Rugergundog said:


> This is an interesting read. This spring i was looking for shoes and in my area of Mid michigan all the TREK stores only sell Bontrager shoes while the Specialized only carry Specialized shoes. I was looking fir Giro shoes and could not find them other than on-line. I didn't even put 2 and 2 together. However we do have a store a bit south that carries TREK and sells SIDI as well.
> 
> All of this crazy crap going on and people wonder why we shop outside of the LBS and buy from catalogs and online.
> 
> This is america.......let the consumer decide what he wants!


Specialized has a list of "approved" brands that a Specialized dealer can also carry. For instance, a Specialized dealer can also carry Electra and Raleigh, but not some other brands (I've only caught a glimpse of the "approved", nothing as far as "not allowed".) I'm guessing Trek does something similar. Sidi is probably on the approved list.

A lot of shops prefer to carry fewer brands. Fewer bills to pay, fewer distributors to keep track of, etc. Me, I like to have lots of variety. The people who drive an hour to come to my shop do too. The "Single-Brand" people drive to Plainfield (Specialized) or Indy (Trek).


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## SROC3 (Jul 20, 2009)

my 2 cents:
- Specialized is a good brand. My 2st bikes were from them and held up very well and had excellent resale value.
- What I can't stand is the local Specialized dealership. They charge for everything. Literally. its almost like you walk in and then they ask you how much you want to spend and try and sell you stuff. I hate that kind of shop.
- It's not the brand that killed it for me, its the dealer that did. I've since moved on to another Local SHop and thus far probably have spent more than $10K with them in 2010 alone.


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## superjesus (Jul 26, 2010)

SROC3 said:


> my 2 cents:
> - *Specialized is a good brand.* My 2st bikes were from them and held up very well and had excellent resale value.
> - *What I can't stand is the local Specialized dealership.* They charge for everything. Literally. its almost like you walk in and then they ask you how much you want to spend and try and sell you stuff. I hate that kind of shop.
> - *It's not the brand that killed it for me, its the dealer that did. * I've since moved on to another Local SHop and thus far probably have spent more than $10K with them in 2010 alone.


I can't tell you how strongly I agree with the bolded portions of your quote. I don't know where you're from, but your experiences mirror my own.


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## SROC3 (Jul 20, 2009)

superjesus said:


> I can't tell you how strongly I agree with the bolded portions of your quote. I don't know where you're from, but your experiences mirror my own.


Los Angeles. I'm talking about the branch in Santa Monica, CA


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## ziscwg (Apr 19, 2010)

This is nothing new in business. Business isn't fair. It sounds like some what it all to be fair. 

It actually goes to show how good the Giro shoes are if Spec is worried. My head liked the Giro shoes a lot, but my feet and knees go for the the Spec shoes.


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## Stumpjumper FSR (Aug 6, 2006)

PlatyPius said:


> Specialized has a list of "approved" brands that a Specialized dealer can also carry. For instance, a Specialized dealer can also carry Electra and Raleigh, but not some other brands (I've only caught a glimpse of the "approved", nothing as far as "not allowed".) I'm guessing Trek does something similar. Sidi is probably on the approved list.
> 
> A lot of shops prefer to carry fewer brands. Fewer bills to pay, fewer distributors to keep track of, etc. Me, I like to have lots of variety. The people who drive an hour to come to my shop do too. The "Single-Brand" people drive to Plainfield (Specialized) or Indy (Trek).


Platy,

You are not a Specialized dealer so why do you care?, Is business so slow in Podunk, IN that you spend your day flaming on the internet slamming my favorite bike manufacturer. I love their bikes, shoes, helmets, gloves ETC ( with a warranty that can’t be beat) and FYI I drive right past your shop on my way to Indy to my Specialized dealer because THEY carry what I want to buy. See you in a few weeks in Rockville, I’ll be the one on the Specialized Bike, with the Specialized jersey, and helmet, and shoes, and gloves…:ciappa:


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## ChrisENC (Nov 2, 2009)

*Brand New Shop*

Had grand opening this past weekend.

The Bicycle Gallery - Specialized, and S-Works dealer

They carry Specialized and Felt. Over 90% of store inventory appears to be Specialized.

Bottles, cages, shoes, socks, all specialized.

One or two jerseys and shorts are not Specialized. They have huge vertical banners in front of the store with a huge Specialized "S."

Their parents happen to own the other shop in town though lol. That shop carries Trek and Cannondale and Trek for the most part. Owner is this guy who does some very unique, high quality work.

I was kind of thinking the same thing before I read this article. It just felt so heavily laden with one brand I figured it must be something contractual with Specialized.


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## PlatyPius (Feb 1, 2009)

Stumpjumper FSR said:


> Platy,
> 
> You are not a Specialized dealer so why do you care?, Is business so slow in Podunk, IN that you spend your day flaming on the internet slamming my favorite bike manufacturer. I love their bikes, shoes, helmets, gloves ETC ( with a warranty that can’t be beat) and FYI I drive right past your shop on my way to Indy to my Specialized dealer because THEY carry what I want to buy. See you in a few weeks in Rockville, I’ll be the one on the Specialized Bike, with the Specialized jersey, and helmet, and shoes, and gloves…:ciappa:


I care because ANY company that tells independent bicycle dealers how to run their business is bad for the industry. It stifles selection and choice. What if that shop in Plainfield were in Greencastle? Then the people here would have the choice of either buying one brand of everything (which normal people don't do), or driving for an hour to get to a shop that has a selection.

I get customers from Terre Haute for that reason. If you're a roadie and don't want Trek, what are your options? The only shop that sells road bikes there is a Trek store. I sell everything, from many different brands. That's why people will drive 40 miles to shop here.

For the record, I was the service manager at a store that sold Specialized. We were given the ultimatum 10 years ago; sell mostly Specialized or be dumped. We dumped them first. I've also owned 2 Specialized bikes (FSR Comp and Ritchey Nitanium Rockhopper) and Specialized shoes. The shoes fell apart in a few months. The bikes were nice, though. I don't have a problem with their products, just their business practices - a theme you should have noticed with me by now. I don't (usually) slam the products, just the business practices.

Oh, and Specialized isn't a "manufacturer"....they don't make anything, nor have they ever. They're a brand.

I'll be in Rockville, I think. I'll be the fat guy on the orange Cyfac.


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## SROC3 (Jul 20, 2009)

Specialized has their own factory in China. They apparently are the only other one, next to Giant. Everyone else outsources or leases "space" for production of their frames from the above manufacturers. That being said - wherever its made.....that is not the point of this discussion I believe. This is about why Specialized apparently has sucky products. As I mentioned prior, they do not. They have very nice and well built frames, shoes, helmets, etc.

So again, just my 2 cents  If you do choose to carry on the whole "its a sucky product" debate, carry on. (I have popcorn.....)


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## Kontact (Apr 1, 2011)

SROC3 said:


> Specialized has their own factory in China. They apparently are the only other one, next to Giant. Everyone else outsources or leases "space" for production of their frames from the above manufacturers. That being said - wherever its made.....that is not the point of this discussion I believe. This is about why Specialized apparently has sucky products. As I mentioned prior, they do not. They have very nice and well built frames, shoes, helmets, etc.
> 
> So again, just my 2 cents  If you do choose to carry on the whole "its a sucky product" debate, carry on. (I have popcorn.....)


Trek owns their own factories in China. Does it really matter who's name is on the lease? The only way Specialized is going to suddenly know how to make things is because experienced people came along with the plant purchase.


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## Fixt00l (Jun 4, 2010)

Specialized is hands down the most pathetic, overrated and overpriced brand for road bikes. EVER! Their dealers are likewise.When I phoned the official dealer in my country, asking for a Scott bike that had slightly better components at a lower price, they started laughing at me and lied! They said no other bike manufacturer in the world comes close, all of the pros just dream of having a Specialiez, blah-blah, their frames are being made by...doctors?! WTF...And I said " What the hell, man, have you ever heard of De Rosa, Pinarello, Colnago, Trek ? All of them literally pwn any of your stuff " and I slammed the phone.Way to go, Specialized, enjoy your blinded customers...


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## DIRT BOY (Aug 22, 2002)

SROC3 said:


> Specialized has their own factory in China.


No, Merida does. Merida owns 49% of Specialized.


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## Mdeth1313 (Nov 1, 2001)

eh, lump them in with speedplay who go after anyone who sells aftermarket parts that make their product better, including having ebay take down their auctions/sales.

I've never found anything from specialized so wonderful, I have a few pairs of their gloves from 4 or 5 years ago because I got them on closeout for $10 each. Their bikes are overpriced and it would be really nice if they could fix their boa system so it actually worked to tighten down their shoes.

I ordered a pair of those shoes- the boa on one of the shoes didn't tighten. I called them and after going thru their "reset" it still didn't work. "Oh yeah, we've had a quality control issue with that, sometimes they just don't work." 

No wonder they don't want anyone elses shoes for sale in those stores.


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## froze (Sep 15, 2002)

DIRT BOY said:


> No, Merida does. Merida owns 49% of Specialized.


 only 19%


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## cyclequip (Oct 20, 2004)

Mdeth1313 said:


> eh, lump them in with speedplay who go after anyone who sells aftermarket parts that make their product better, including having ebay take down their auctions/sales.
> 
> I've never found anything from specialized so wonderful, I have a few pairs of their gloves from 4 or 5 years ago because I got them on closeout for $10 each. Their bikes are overpriced and it would be really nice if they could fix their boa system so it actually worked to tighten down their shoes.
> 
> ...


BOA is not made by Specialized. They outsource them from BOA Technologies. And if the boa is properly fitted and used, it works just fine. Even in the snowboarding world where it was born .......


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## Chainstay (Mar 13, 2004)

Oracle7775 said:


> That's absolutely what they're trying to do. It's an ugly tactic for a company that's not confident that they can win on the quality of their product alone.
> 
> I'm not talking about whether or not it's morally represensible (it is); only whether it is legally actionable (it may not be, depending upon the particulars of the situation).


I look at this from a marketing strategy point of view. It's a tough business tactic but I don't see it as immoral at all. They earned their brand preference and market power and they are defending their market position against rivals by using this power to control their dealers. Control is not a bad thing. It's a fact of business that goes both ways between channel partners. In this case Specialized has the power. If they abuse it they will tick off a lot of dealers, get bad press and maybe loose a court case.


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## froze (Sep 15, 2002)

I'm kind of on a limb about all of this. A car dealer gets a contract to sell new GM vehicles and that's all they can sell, they can't sell new Fords. So, not sure how that works with bikes, but if you get a exclusive franchise to sell Trek then they will probably expect that you adhere to that. What I don't know is how a bicycle contract to sell a particular brand works, maybe some contracts are open and others are exclusive. I know in Merrillville IN they have a Trek Store and they can sell nothing but Trek products, I know when the now defunct Kolingers bike shop here in Fort Wayne was around they could only sell Trek products, but Summit Cycles who took over the Trek dealership from Kolingers still sells a few other brands not related to Trek, which probably means that Summit got a different contract with Trek the Kolinger had.


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## Lou3000 (Aug 25, 2010)

mafpolo said:


> So, if you want to be a Specialized dealer, you know you're not selling Bell's shoes. If you want to sell Bell shoes, don't be a Specialized dealer. May not be fair, but I can't see where it's unlawful.


Well it may be illegal. Its called tortious interference. Its one thing for Specialized to tell someone that if they want to deal with Specialized they have to sell from a list of approved brands, but its another thing for a third party (Specialized) to force a bike store into breaching its contract with Giro. Maybe, we can't be sure what all the contracts say until the case goes to court.

That said, I'm glad Specialized went ahead and confirmed for everyone that the Giro shoes are far superior. Love my Giro Factors.


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## DIRT BOY (Aug 22, 2002)

froze said:


> only 19%


Nope, pretty sure Its 49%. 19% was like 2007. Basically, Specialized own just enough now Mike can control the Company.


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## Herbie (Nov 12, 2010)

It's not illegal to have exclusive representation. Not even a close question from a legal stanpoint. What's fair is something that is a different question. Platy, generally I agree with you, but in this case we are on opposite sides of the fence. What is not being said is what do these shops get in exchange. Some sort of coop advertising? Better wholesale prices? First call on ordering bikes? Some sort of territorial protection? I don't know the answer to the question, but I bet it's not as one sided as many believe 

If you think these sorts of issues are unfair, what do you think about franchises? MacDonald franchises have to buy all their supplies from the main distributor etc.


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## Thalamos (Dec 21, 2010)

I have no clue as to what exactly is in a retailer contract with Specialized. But it would be silly to believe that there isn't a tremendous amount of recognition for the Specialized brand name. Specialized hasn't manufactured a product in many years. But the fact that they can slap the Specialized name on something and sell it for top dollar says something about the image this company has built for themselves over the decades. Specialized sells, whether you like their branded products or not, its a fact. The Specialized dealers definitely understand this and that's why they won't be carrying Giro shoes. 

Right or wrong, its all about turning the biggest profit for the least amount of expense for the big companies. They sold their souls a long time ago.


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## froze (Sep 15, 2002)

DIRT BOY said:


> Nope, pretty sure Its 49%. 19% was like 2007. Basically, Specialized own just enough now Mike can control the Company.


You may be right, but after a extensive search all I could find was the 2007 19% ownership figures.


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## Mdeth1313 (Nov 1, 2001)

cyclequip said:


> BOA is not made by Specialized. They outsource them from BOA Technologies. And if the boa is properly fitted and used, it works just fine. Even in the snowboarding world where it was born .......


nah, I have boa shoes by lake- never an issue. more than a few people told me they had issues w/ specialized shoes and the boa system either breaking or not working outright.


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## Stumpjumper FSR (Aug 6, 2006)

PlatyPius said:


> I care because ANY company that tells independent bicycle dealers how to run their business is bad for the industry. It stifles selection and choice. What if that shop in Plainfield were in Greencastle? Then the people here would have the choice of either buying one brand of everything (which normal people don't do), or driving for an hour to get to a shop that has a selection.
> 
> I get customers from Terre Haute for that reason. If you're a roadie and don't want Trek, what are your options? The only shop that sells road bikes there is a Trek store. I sell everything, from many different brands. That's why people will drive 40 miles to shop here.
> 
> ...


PlatyPius,

Apparently I pissed off some of the "Forum Gods" with my post to you. If I offended you in any way I apologize, I did not intend my comments to come across as a personal attack towards you or your shop. If I see you in Rockville I’ll say Hi, as I said I’ll be the one on the Specialized bike….


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## froze (Sep 15, 2002)

If an independent agrees to the contract limiting them from what they can sell then that's the owner's right, if they don't want limitations then don't sign the contract and show the bike company the door. There are plenty of bicycle manufactures they can sell that don't care about contracts and limited rights that are just as good if not better then a company who wants to limit their rights. Just as PLATYPIUS LBS he worked for told Specialized to take a leap any independent can do that if they chose to. Personally I think an LBS that can offer a variety of products is better then one that doesn't because the independent dealer can sell what the dealer feels is the best product for the money and value for the customer. I think independents who sell their soul to some big company feel threatened that if they don't offer some huge brand recognized bike they won't be competitive with the other LBS in town, or fear the other LBS in town will take the contract and they'll lose business. Fear motivates people to do things, sometimes do things good and sometimes bad.


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## mobilesleepy (Nov 11, 2010)

I like some of the big brands, but it stinks that they only do the Dealership route. 

What if the small LBS wants to sell an Allez, or a CAAD8? They can't, they have to throw up a ridiculously overpriced bike like a Venge or EVO that not many folks would buy up on the display. 

On that whole Specialized Re-branding tip; is this an Allez?


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## Dr_John (Oct 11, 2005)

> nah, I have boa shoes by lake- never an issue. more than a few people told me they had issues w/ specialized shoes and the boa system either breaking or not working outright.


They're made by BOA, and warranty replacements come directly from BOA, not Specialized. For example, for my shoes:

Boa Technology Inc. :: Low Power Reel - S1


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## SROC3 (Jul 20, 2009)

So time for me to chime in again......I really must say that Specialized does not have lousy products. They aren't the best, but if you look at their pricing they are also not the most expensive. Cervelo and Pinarello for example charge more for their higher end frame sets. I think that they are priced for the specific market that they know will buy their brand. Simple economics. As a company, they do pretty well and are successful for a reason. I actually was looking at their new Venge frame set......very nice. they didn't have my color and the local dealer here sucks ass. And since other, more reputable and friendlier shops can't carry their stuff (w/ out minimally stocking and representing other brands) I just can't bring myself to even be interested enough to go for a test ride. Hmmm......so maybe there is some truth to the whole "over-aggressive business practices = losing future customers"? Meh, they've probably figured out some cost-benefit algorithm.....blah...blah......right?


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## Kontact (Apr 1, 2011)

mobilesleepy said:


> I like some of the big brands, but it stinks that they only do the Dealership route.
> 
> What if the small LBS wants to sell an Allez, or a CAAD8? They can't, they have to throw up a ridiculously overpriced bike like a Venge or EVO that not many folks would buy up on the display.
> 
> On that whole Specialized Re-branding tip; is this an Allez?


Certainly not. Does Specialized sound like the kind of company that is just going to let its models be sold to other vendors?


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## Ecrevisse (Sep 27, 2011)

Free enterprise.....


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## todayilearned (Sep 28, 2011)

Are bigger companies like Specialized trying to gain more market share by aggressive tactics because of the economy or just a normal thing?

In this economy do chain stores like Performance Bikes have a big effect on companies like trek, specialized, giant?


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## D&MsDad (Jul 17, 2007)

It may be true that Specialized equipment is acceptable, but their marketing tactics limit the choices available to a consumer at shops that sell their products. I know that Platy's post is from a vendor's view point, but I don't have any experience in retail, I can only say how it affects me as a consumer.

I've gone to a bike shop that sold Trek bikes looking for a tail light, and they only had Trek branded lights. I asked about Cateye, Vetta etc. and I was told by the salesperson that those brands were crap and that no one bought them. Um, really? I knew from experience that the Trek taillights I'd bought in the past conked out after the first time they got wet. I had to go to another shop. Fortunately I live in an area where I have a choice, and fortunately I have some experience with the equipment I was looking for.

It seems, unfortunately, that these types of business practices work, and many companies that are large enough to exert this type of leverage are using them. I, for one, have noticed an increase in the proportion of Specialized bikes that I see in certain areas where I ride. That could be because they make a good product, or because people are bored with Treks, or for some other reason having nothing to do with Specialized's business practices for all I know. 








------------------------------------------


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## PlatyPius (Feb 1, 2009)

Update:



> <table border="0" cellpadding="0" cellspacing="0" height="5" width="4"><tbody><tr> <td style="float:right;" align="right"> <table align="right" border="0" cellpadding="0" cellspacing="0"> <tbody><tr> <td style="float:right;" align="right" nowrap="nowrap"> <table align="right" border="0" cellpadding="0" cellspacing="0"> <tbody><tr><td style="float:right; text-align:right;" align="right" nowrap="nowrap">
> </td> </tr> </tbody></table>
> </td> </tr> </tbody></table> </td> </tr> </tbody></table> *
> Giro, Specialized Lawsuit Dismissed*
> ...


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## orange_julius (Jan 24, 2003)

PlatyPius said:


> Update:


What's your take on this? Will Giro and Easton start a lawsuit elsewhere?


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## PlatyPius (Feb 1, 2009)

orange_julius said:


> What's your take on this? Will Giro and Easton start a lawsuit elsewhere?


I don't know. It depends on whether Specialized made any changes to its dealer agreement or not. If not, I suspect Bell will take it to a higher court.


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## hrumpole (Jun 17, 2008)

dcorn said:


> I don't really get why you guys care? Specialized seems to make really good stuff and has a lot of engineering in their cycling gear/bikes/etc. If you don't like em, don't buy it! Obviously there are shops that don't sell Specialized, so go buy your Giro shoes there!
> 
> It does seem that a shop that sells their bikes will also sell all their accessories, but this isn't always true. Conte's is a high end bike shop near me and they sell all of Specialized's top S-works stuff, including shoes and helmets, plus they have numerous Venge/SL3/SL4/Shiv bikes around the shop. However, they also sell accessories and bikes from other super high end brands like Castelli, Pearl Izumi, Cervelo, Pinarello, Cannondale, Willier, etc.
> 
> ...


Depending on which Conte's you're talking about, they are the number one cervelo dealer in the country. (they now have a new name, perhaps because of the frequent flaming of their customer service on message boards). I suspect that Specialized has little leverage over them--their customers are willing to drop thousands of dollars on high-end gear and routinely do. You want your brand in a shop like that, I would think.


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## RJP Diver (Jul 2, 2010)

PlatyPius said:


> I don't know. It depends on whether Specialized made any changes to its dealer agreement or not. If not, I suspect Bell will take it to a higher court.


You can't just "take it to a higher court" because you want to. To get to a "higher court" you need a resolution in a lower court that is then appealed to a higher court.

It looks like Bell's legal counsel determined they did not have a very good shot at prevailing for some reason.


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## J24 (Oct 8, 2003)

Bell is not appealing state court dismissal instead sounds like they intend changing venue from state to federal court, where they should have filed in the first place.


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## ArkRider (Jul 27, 2007)

J24 said:


> Bell is not appealing state court dismissal instead sounds like they intend changing venue from state to federal court, where they should have filed in the first place.


Based solely on the article quoted above, it doesn't appear that there is anything to appeal. Rather Bell took a voluntary non-suit which would allow it to re-file suit in a California court, a federal District Court, or another state court of competent jurisdiction.

I think the post of "higher court" is a common misunderstanding that the federal courts are "higher" than state courts but - with the exception of the U.S. Supreme Court in matters of federal law - the federal courts are not really higher courts than the state courts.


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## trip221 (Oct 22, 2003)

I don't own anything from Specialized, but I was just about to buy a new saddle from them and was pretty excited about it (the Romin). But not anymore. My new saddle search continues...


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## froze (Sep 15, 2002)

I don't think any bike company has the "best" bike, it's more of a rider's opinion. Having said that I think Specialized does a excellent job with their bikes. All their bikes with the Zertz (sp?) inserts have received rave reviews for comfort. Their top of the line helmets are among the best made though a little rich for my blood. Their tires for the most part are pretty good. But having run a business once I don't like some of the marketing tactics that some companies including Specialized do. To limit a LBS to nothing but their branded items gives that LBS a limited market place because not everyone wants Specialized stuff. But knowing that Specialized and Trek and others do sort of thing doesn't keep me from buying a product they have to offer if it fits my needs. 

Like I said, I use to own a business, and business owners are a breed of people that like their independence, I personally would never forfeit my independence to gain a large restricted dealership; but I also understand that there are those who will and that's ok too.


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## penn_rider (Jul 11, 2009)

I can understand your frustration, but I am sure that you knew these restrictions before opening a small business, even if this specific restriction had not yet been in place. 

For what it is worth, I have two shops near me that carry Specialized. One has the Giro shoes next to the Specialized shoes, and the other has Sidi, Garneau, and Specialized,,,, as well as many other brand of accessories...


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## mpre53 (Oct 25, 2011)

jmoryl said:


> It also seems like Specialized engages in a form or price fixing too, where everything is more or less sold at full retail (or else!).


It's called "Fair Trade Pricing" and it's common in every retail industry. It started with Saturn, the auto maker, where cars sold at sticker price and there was no haggling. Scion, a division of Toyota, still does it. Shimano enforces it ruthlessly in the fishing tackle side of their business. If a retailer gets caught discounting, they get shut off from future product.

Price fixing is when retailers band together and decide that everyone is going to sell the same product at the same price---the way that the barber's union set haircut and shave prices when I was a kid. That's illegal. I think that "Fair Trade Pricing" has passed muster, legally.

And I know that I can get a 2012 Specialized bike at less than MSRP at a shop 10 miles up the road. :wink:


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## froze (Sep 15, 2002)

mpre53 said:


> It's called "Fair Trade Pricing" and it's common in every retail industry. It started with Saturn, the auto maker, where cars sold at sticker price and there was no haggling. Scion, a division of Toyota, still does it. Shimano enforces it ruthlessly in the fishing tackle side of their business. If a retailer gets caught discounting, they get shut off from future product.
> 
> Price fixing is when retailers band together and decide that everyone is going to sell the same product at the same price---the way that the barber's union set haircut and shave prices when I was a kid. That's illegal. I think that "Fair Trade Pricing" has passed muster, legally.
> 
> And I know that I can get a 2012 Specialized bike at less than MSRP at a shop 10 miles up the road. :wink:


Specialized and Continental and others participate in fair trade policies, they also don't have much of a markdown on their products when sales put into place. But there are plenty of other products in the bicycle world that don't conform to that philosophy. I buy tires all the time from brands that will mark their tires down 40 to 40% instead of just 10% some of the big companies do. That's ok, they have that right, and I have the right to buy or not to buy their product, so I take my business to other products where I can save the most amount of money and get an equally if not better product.


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## mpre53 (Oct 25, 2011)

The other interesting thing is, of the two biggest Specialized dealers within 50 miles of me, in other bike brands, the one 10 miles up the road also sells Cannondale, and the one 50 miles west sells Trek and Giant.


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## Waxbytes (Sep 22, 2004)

Of course, reading Bell's complaint to the Court tells us only what Bell wants to say and is, by definition, a self-serving statement.


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## froze (Sep 15, 2002)

mpre53 said:


> The other interesting thing is, of the two biggest Specialized dealers within 50 miles of me, in other bike brands, the one 10 miles up the road also sells Cannondale, and the one 50 miles west sells Trek and Giant.


I wonder how they do that, they must not be authorized dealers? I know the LBS in our town that sells Trek as an authorized dealer but does sell other brands, but those brands are comfort bikes that Trek really doesn't do a lot of, and they still carry Serrota but now only have two bikes on display, a lugged steel bike and a TI bike, nether of which Trek makes, but I'm sure a buyer could order any Serrota they want. They also have a tandem on display by Salsa, but again Trek doesn't sell a tandem. So I think that a dealer can sell other products as long as it doesn't take a sale for Trek. There are Trek stores, I think we discussed this earlier, that sell nothing but Trek bikes and products.


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## penn_rider (Jul 11, 2009)

froze said:


> I wonder how they do that, they must not be authorized dealers? I know the LBS in our town that sells Trek as an authorized dealer but does sell other brands, but those brands are comfort bikes that Trek really doesn't do a lot of, and they still carry Serrota but now only have two bikes on display, a lugged steel bike and a TI bike, nether of which Trek makes, but I'm sure a buyer could order any Serrota they want. They also have a tandem on display by Salsa, but again Trek doesn't sell a tandem. So I think that a dealer can sell other products as long as it doesn't take a sale for Trek. There are Trek stores, I think we discussed this earlier, that sell nothing but Trek bikes and products.


Not sure how, but they do. One store, Specialized - Bianchi - Pinarello - Orbea - Pegoretti - Lynsky - Parlee - Moots - IF - Guru - Masi - Salsa, and the other, Specialized - Trek - Giant - Felt - Look - Colnago - BMC and others...

Note: There are other Trek dealers in mid TN that seem to offer Trek more exclusively, but the majority of the shops have a multiple brand presence.


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## froze (Sep 15, 2002)

penn_rider said:


> Not sure how, but they do. One store, Specialized - Bianchi - Pinarello - Orbea - Pegoretti - Lynsky - Parlee - Moots - IF - Guru - Masi - Salsa, and the other, Specialized - Trek - Giant - Felt - Look - Colnago - BMC and others...
> 
> Note: There are other Trek dealers in mid TN that seem to offer Trek more exclusively, but the majority of the shops have a multiple brand presence.


Usually most LBS's are so small that once Trek fills an order for bikes to be on display, there's not a whole lot of room in the store left for whole lot of other brands. I did find out today that the store in our town that carries the Trek contract can order any bike you want from any company you want the bike to be from, like Colnago for example even though they don't carry the line. But of course I could buy just about any bike on line even Specialized and Trek and they'll just send to a close by LBS that carries the line.


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## dcorn (Sep 1, 2011)

SROC3 said:


> I actually was looking at their new Venge frame set......very nice. they didn't have my color and the local dealer here sucks ass. And since other, more reputable and friendlier shops can't carry their stuff (w/ out minimally stocking and representing other brands) I just can't bring myself to even be interested enough to go for a test ride. Hmmm......so maybe there is some truth to the whole "over-aggressive business practices = losing future customers"? Meh, they've probably figured out some cost-benefit algorithm.....blah...blah......right?


So because your LBS sucks and there aren't any more around you, the company as a whole must be bad?? 

I have many specialized dealers around my area and many of them are small businesses. Lucky for me, Freshbikes in Arlington is a high end dealer for Specialized, Willier, Pinarello, Cervelo, Cannondale and others. I went in to check out a Venge myself and their 56cm tester just so happened to be an S-works frame with Di2 and Zipp 101s on it. The guy let me ride it around the city for a good 20 minutes without a problem. Guess you just need to find a better shop and maybe you'll give Spec another shot.


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## matt2k (Dec 31, 2011)

Jetmugg said:


> This is not nearly as uncommon as you might think, in all kinds of dealer/distributor businesses. When you are a "house" dealer or distributor of parts, you are subject to the terms of your agreement with the supplier. It is not much different in the food supply business, clothing, automotive, etc. Williams-Sonoma doesn't carry certain brands of cutlery due to their agreements with their current cutlery suppliers. It seems like we might expect bicycle dealers to be "different", but it's simply not the case. You don't go to the Chevy dealer to get parts and accessories for your Ford. You don't get Bontrager parts from a non-Trek bike shop. And in this case, apparently you don't get Giro shoes from your Specialized dealer.



I don't think this is an accurate argument as dealers will open a Ford dealership or a Chevy dealership in close partnership with the auto maker as a franchise or direct corporate shop. Whereas a local bike shop is, most often, an small, independent shop owner hell bent on selling a wide selection of products he knows well to people wanting his expertise and, hopefully, unbiased opinion. 

-M


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## Tschai (Jun 19, 2003)

trip221 said:


> I don't own anything from Specialized, but I was just about to buy a new saddle from them and was pretty excited about it (the Romin). But not anymore. My new saddle search continues...


This is crazy. If we applied the same logic to other companies that make and sell all the things people buy, we would probably have to continue our search until the end of time for half the things we buy in our everyday lives. Shimano does the same thing. Car dealers. Microsoft. Food companies. It goes on and on forever.


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## slowdave (Nov 29, 2005)

A few years ago i was in the market for a new rig, i liked the look of the Look 595 i enquired about its price, only to be told by three of the LBS that as they were not a Look premium dealer there is a $1000 premium on the price. I find the premium dealer is 300km from home. So even if you are about to sell the look pedals your not a look dealer. I did buy the look frame but i ordered it from os and paid half the premium dealer fee. So the local importer lost out, as too did the LBS who i would have much prefered to deal with, but $3500 is too much for me to pass up.


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## jeffmuldoon (Aug 12, 2011)

Theres a shop near me that sells Trek, Specialized, Felt, Cervelo and I think Seven. They have a full range for specialized and trek including try bikes and aero road, TT bikes and cyclocross bikes. The other brands its a mix but can get whatever you want from them. They also have multiple types of she's helmets etc so not sure how they do that.


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## mudrock (Jun 4, 2008)

I hate Trek. And I hate Specialized. They use there power any way they can to limit competition. A couple years ago one of our local shops, that sold Lemond bikes but no other Trek brands, was told he has to sell Trek or they would pull their Lemond dealership. He told them to go to hell.


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## WaynefromOrlando (Mar 3, 2010)

I don't know if there are any Specialized centric shops around here, but there is a Trek-centric chain here in Orlando. If Specialized is seeking that business model, they will lose all of my business in a microsecond as that kind of business model turns me off. 

There are 2 of the Trek-centric stores relatively close to where I live, but I go past both to the independent LBS on the other side of town instead of shopping at the Trek store. I get a better selection, competitive prices, and a LOT more respect from the staff at the indepedent store than I do at the Trek store. 

I have actually bought all my bikes (3 so far), from the local LBS that is associated with Bikes Direct and I will buy my next bike from there as well. I will make that purchase even though I will be living about 852 miles away because the service is so good that Cycle Spectrum has earned my loyalty. I have referred no less than 3 recent purchases to them as well.

The problem with the Trek business model is it creates an elitist mentality in the shops that buy into that model. Talking bad about other brands, disrespecting customers who don't share in that kool-aid openly and in front of other customers is a sign of that disease. I refuse to play that game.

Specialized and Trek probably make good products. Bicycling however is also about service, and the business model that Trek and apparently Specialized are following are horrible when it comes to service unless the customer also buys into that mentality. I do not believe Trek or Specialized are the ONLY bicycles or gear worth purchasing, so that mentality pushes me right out the door.


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## froze (Sep 15, 2002)

I've own Treks since they first came out in 76, had 3 of them since and still have the last one I bought in 84. The industry knew Trek as a very customer oriented company with a small bike manufacture mentality of making sure all and any problem was resolved quickly. But when they decided to become the modern day equivalent of the old Schwinn company and started offing a bunch of models they went downhill and became elitists as WaynefromOrlando noted, and now I hear nothing other then complaints about their customer service. I know I will never buy a another Trek.


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## jmio (Aug 19, 2008)

ahhhhh, just buy online, will get it cheaper anyhow 99 percent of the time.


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## darwinosx (Oct 12, 2010)

Salsa_Lover said:


> wasn't america the land where the free market was actually free ?


That was always a bunch of nonsense for the little people to believe.


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## darwinosx (Oct 12, 2010)

Jetmugg said:


> This is not nearly as uncommon as you might think, in all kinds of dealer/distributor businesses. When you are a "house" dealer or distributor of parts, you are subject to the terms of your agreement with the supplier. It is not much different in the food supply business, clothing, automotive, etc. Williams-Sonoma doesn't carry certain brands of cutlery due to their agreements with their current cutlery suppliers. It seems like we might expect bicycle dealers to be "different", but it's simply not the case. You don't go to the Chevy dealer to get parts and accessories for your Ford. You don't get Bontrager parts from a non-Trek bike shop. And in this case, apparently you don't get Giro shoes from your Specialized dealer.


That might make sense of every single item in the bike shop was made by Specialized but they obviously aren't. Plus we aren't talking about a car dealer but a bike shop and their customers have different expectations. 
I was planning on buying a Roubaix next month when I get my bonus. Now I'm seriously reconsidering and not just because of this lawsuit but Specializeds other legal actions.


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## darwinosx (Oct 12, 2010)

jumpstumper said:


> Part of being in business means outsell your competitors. If Specialized wants to employ tactics that include removing a direct competitors products from its authorized retail shops, so what? Its part of good business sense. Ugly tactic? I don't think so. Walk into any authorized Apple store and tell me how many "Windows Enabled" PC's you'll find. Tell me how many new Ford Mustangs you'll find at a Chevy dealer.


Both analogies are bad but especially the Apple one. Apple includes software on every Mac called Boot Camp that makes it easy to run Windows on your Mac and they heavily advertise this capability. They also sell software in their stores that allows you to run Windows and other operating systems on Macs.
Others have already shown why the car analogy makes no sense.


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## darwinosx (Oct 12, 2010)

PlatyPius said:


> And yet, here in Podunk, Indiana I've seen people wearing their shoes, sunglasses, and helmets....


Same in Phoenix. I just bought some Giro gloves to replace my Specialized gloves that were coming apart after much use.


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## darwinosx (Oct 12, 2010)

MAS-SD said:


> This is common practice in big business...increase barriers to entry and supply chains to increase market share. This doesn't bother me at all. Specialized makes great products and if you want those other brands there are other ways to get them.


So not only have you been indoctrinated well you have failed to read and comprehend the original post.


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## darwinosx (Oct 12, 2010)

Stumpjumper FSR said:


> Platy,
> 
> You are not a Specialized dealer so why do you care?, Is business so slow in Podunk, IN that you spend your day flaming on the internet slamming my favorite bike manufacturer. I love their bikes, shoes, helmets, gloves ETC ( with a warranty that can&#146;t be beat) and FYI I drive right past your shop on my way to Indy to my Specialized dealer because THEY carry what I want to buy. See you in a few weeks in Rockville, I&#146;ll be the one on the Specialized Bike, with the Specialized jersey, and helmet, and shoes, and gloves&#133;:ciappa:


That must be some awsum kool-aid.


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## froze (Sep 15, 2002)

If I had to buy a new bike and only had two choices, Trek or Specialized, I would choose the Specialized. I've heard of people that had problems with an item that fell under warranty and very few complain about Specialized, whereas Trek has more issues. Do I like their marketing philosophy? No, but no one's perfect.


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