# LeMond Should be flipping Trek the bird now.



## g29er

*LeMond should be flipping Trek the bird now.*

Even though Trek dropped LeMond like a brick and re-painted his frames with the Gary Fisher name,because Lance was Trek's golden boy and all back then. But LeMond must feel like a million bucks now even though he lost a ton of money with that whole fiasco.


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## cda 455

I wonder if MeLond has a possible law suit against Trek now.


Since LeMond has been speaking the truth all along, what would Trek argument be now?


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## slegros

g29er said:


> Even though Trek dropped LeMond like a brick and re-painted his frames with the Gary Fisher name,because Lance was Trek's golden boy and all back then. But LeMond must feel like a million bucks now even though he lost a ton of money with that whole fiasco.


I hope LeMond can sleep well at night knowing he has something LA doesn't - his integrity in tact.


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## FR hokeypokey

Where do you find the confidence in any rider at this time? 

All the allegations, doping history in cycling and veiled connections in just about every team and era.

Do you truly believe that if the same level of scrutiny and current testing methods that a re-test of a Lemond "B" sample from his races would come back completely clean?

I am not so sure of anyone's integrity anymore.


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## Brad the Bold

cda 455 said:


> I wonder if MeLond has a possible law suit against Trek now.
> 
> 
> Since LeMond has been speaking the truth all along, what would Trek argument be now?


Been there, done that.

Trek and LeMond reached a private settlement in 2010.


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## philippec

FR hokeypokey said:


> Where do you find the confidence in any rider at this time?
> 
> All the allegations, doping history in cycling and veiled connections in just about every team and era.
> 
> Do you truly believe that if the same level of scrutiny and current testing methods that a re-test of a Lemond "B" sample from his races would come back completely clean?
> 
> I am not so sure of anyone's integrity anymore.


Yes, the scorched earth approach is best. "You can take down my hero, but he is not going down alone m#$%@!frickers!!!!! They all are/were/will be dopers!!!"

Except, it's just not the case.


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## tnvol123

Good post. I can't disagree with you. 



FR hokeypokey said:


> Where do you find the confidence in any rider at this time?
> 
> All the allegations, doping history in cycling and veiled connections in just about every team and era.
> 
> Do you truly believe that if the same level of scrutiny and current testing methods that a re-test of a Lemond "B" sample from his races would come back completely clean?
> 
> I am not so sure of anyone's integrity anymore.


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## Brad the Bold

philippec said:


> Yes, the scorched earth approach is best. "You can take down my hero, but he is not going down alone m#$%@!frickers!!!!! They all are/were/will be dopers!!!"
> 
> Except, it's just not the case.


@philippec 

Give him a break. I don't think that's what he's saying. In fact that's an approach that Armstrong supporters used against doping cynics in the past, that critics were tarring Lance with too broad a brush.

Lighten up, Francis.

@ HokeyPokey
I understand your cynicism.

Greg Lemond has been a constant critic of doping during and after his career. He has been very forthright about his experiences and opinions. He has suffered much in the past decades for being so outspoken. It is hard to believe he would sacrifice so much by crusading against doping and dopers, if it were a lie to cover his own doping.


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## High Gear

*Poll: Should Trek formally apologize to Greg LeMond?*

Now that Trek has come to the conclusion that Lance Armstrong has doped. Should Trek formally apologize to LeMond for siding with Armstrong and ending the LeMond brand because of this.

yay or neigh


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## tnvol123

Maybe they have?


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## MB1

I couldn't care less.


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## MB1

tnvol123 said:


> Maybe they have?


_Monday, February 01, 2010 Three-time Tour de France winner Greg LeMond and the Trek Bicycle Corporation have reached an out-of-court settlement in their bruising breach-of-contract dispute, a fight that lasted nearly two years and often centered on allegations about Lance Armstrong and doping.

The terms of the settlement, which comes just a month before the case was scheduled to go before a jury in a federal court in Minnesota, are confidential. But a joint statement shows that Trek has agreed to make a contribution to a charitable organization with which LeMond is affiliated.
_


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## TheFunkyMonkey

I'm with MB1 -- I could care less as I dislike LeMond and dislike Lance even more. I won't even comment on my dislike for Trek... Call it a perfect storm from my perspective !


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## mohair_chair

Neither Armstrong nor Lemond seem like the most likable of characters. I'm sure Trek is happy to be rid of both of them.


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## Doctor Falsetti

Armstrong is obsessed with LeMond. He hired a PR firm to smear him, which judging by some of the uninformed comments worked. He actively interfered with Greg's business. 

It is funny looking back at Greg's comments now. He is clearly the rational one while Armstrong has been exposed as the crazy, obsessed liar.


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## rydbyk

I would vote for our local Trek store to start carrying Lemond bikes again. That way, I might have a reason to go look a cool bikes there some day again.

Mohair Chair might have a point too^^^


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## Brad the Bold

Doctor Falsetti said:


> Armstrong is obsessed with LeMond. He hired a PR firm to smear him, which judging by some of the uninformed comments worked. He actively interfered with Greg's business.
> 
> It is funny looking back at Greg's comments now. He is clearly the rational one while Armstrong has been exposed as the crazy, obsessed liar.


I agree.

LeMond drew me to the sport in the early 1980's when I was in high school. But as Lance came to the forefront I was a big fan, and LeMond faded.

At the time that Lance was winning his first tours and starting to eclipse LeMond as the first answer to the "Name the greatest American TdF Champion" I started to feel that Greg LeMond was just a bitter has been. He was a sour grapes curmudgeon that couldn't let go enough to embrace the new hero that had replaced him. And Lance definately fed into that perception, passively in public but actively and viciously behind the scenes.

I was wrong. LeMond was right.

He was right about Lance. He was right about Postal. He was right about Floyd. He was right about UCI.


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## rufus

And every successive Tour that Lance won made me feel even worse, that people would soon forget about Greg Lemond, and consider him just a washed-up has-been, who was jealous of the kid who did what he couldn't. And each successive year, it hurt just a bit more that Lemond kept getting pushed further and further into the back pages of history. 

Lemond was a hero of mine. Never cared for Lance, even when he just starting out riding for Subaru-Montgomery.


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## sir duke

It's water under the bridge but it wouldn't do Trek any harm to publicly acknowledge they did Lemond wrong. A lot of people should be saying sorry to Lemond right now, but they won't.


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## High Gear

rydbyk said:


> I would vote for our local Trek store to start carrying Lemond bikes again. That way, I might have a reason to go look a cool bikes there some day again.
> 
> Mohair Chair might have a point too^^^


LeMond's ruled the road back in the early 00's


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## AndrwSwitch

My nicest road bike is a '99 LeMond. The bike brand getting rebuilt doesn't sound terribly likely, but one never knows. Dude's only 51...


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## stumpbumper

I believe doping was also quite popular during LeMond's rise to the top and even before. Anyone who believes he raced totally clean while everyone else was shooting junk into their arms might be interested in some land along the river I have for sale.


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## gobes

stumpbumper said:


> I believe doping was also quite popular during LeMond's rise to the top and even before. Anyone who believes he raced totally clean while everyone else was shooting junk into their arms might be interested in some land along the river I have for sale.


Seriously? This again?
Why don't you read the several other threads here that address this?


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## hawker12

No way they will publicaly apologize. There were a lot of accusations in the lawsuit and it started to get in personal stuff and name calling. I think Greg could have used some restraint in the way he went about things but I never questioned his motives. I think he was concerned about the future of the sport and the health of the riders and I believe he has been vindicated.


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## cda 455

gobes said:


> Seriously? This again?
> Why don't you read the several other threads here that address this?




Feed the troll; do not!!


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## suvacrew

High Gear said:


> Now that Trek has come to the conclusion that Lance Armstrong has doped. Should Trek formally apologize to LeMond for siding with Armstrong and ending the LeMond brand because of this.
> 
> yay or neigh



Trek already settled out on Greg. Greg has been thumped by Landis in his allegations of Lemond being molested as a child, Armstrong came out hot and heavy and made numerous accusations... 

Greg was the man...getting shot by brother in law was pivotal.

Dopers can pick out other dopers at the start, non dopers can pick out dopers at the finish.

Isnt Madone all about Lance? Isnt Lance a large part of Sram?

Im guilty of intially thinking Greg was being sour grapes over another American being as good as he, but I never thought Armstrong was clean after cancer and all of a sudden the best of the best.

My apologies to Mr LeMond, Im sorry I was a doubter.

Phil Liggett, time to belly up to the bar, mea culpa


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## pianopiano

suvacrew said:


> Trek already settled out on Greg. Greg has been thumped by Landis in his allegations of Lemond being olested as a child, Armstrong came out hot and heavy and made numerous accusations...
> 
> Greg was the man...getting shot by brother in law was pivotal.
> 
> Dopers can pick out other dopers at the start, non dopers can pick out dopers at the finish.
> 
> Isnt Madone all about Lance? Isnt Lance a large part of Sram?
> 
> Im guilty of intially thinking Greg was being spoiled grapes over another American being as good as he, but I never thought Armstrong was clean after cancer and now the best of the best.
> 
> My apologies to Mr LeMond.


Good post. Clearly, you've got class.


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## pedalruns

Doctor Falsetti said:


> Armstrong is obsessed with LeMond. He hired a PR firm to smear him, which judging by some of the uninformed comments worked. He actively interfered with Greg's business.
> 
> It is funny looking back at Greg's comments now. He is clearly the rational one while Armstrong has been exposed as the crazy, obsessed liar.



Agree..Yes lots of UNINFORMED comments about Greg from all the people that bought the LA PR spin! 

The good news is it is much less that it used to be.. I can remember being on here years ago trying to defend Greg or at least try and say most of what is out there is from the LA/PR spin machine and has no truth.


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## sir duke

> Give him a break. I don't think that's what he's saying. In fact that's an approach that Armstrong supporters used against doping cynics in the past, that critics were tarring Lance with too broad a brush.
> 
> Lighten up, Francis.


I think that's _exactly_ what he's saying. Lemond was put in the feeder by the Lance worshippers, but at the end of the day, _no proof, _nada. The truth is that those who suspected Lance had a brush that was nowhere near wide enough. Let's put the guilt where it belongs.


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## brentley

stumpbumper said:


> I believe doping was also quite popular during LeMond's rise to the top and even before. Anyone who believes he raced totally clean while everyone else was shooting junk into their arms might be interested in some land along the river I have for sale.


The peloton of the 80s did not have the EPO super drug. 

Testosterone patches , uppers / amphetamines, cortisone etc. yes. But not sophisticated Dr led blood doping and EPO. 

Even with that sort of doping the people who had the ability usually won races. In the case of EPO it created super human cyclists, who may not have been the best.


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## sir duke

gobes said:


> Seriously? This again?
> Why don't you read the several other threads here that address this?


Leave him be, he's embarrassing himself with ease, he doesn't need our help. He'll go away soon enough. :idea:


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## Ventruck

I think LeMond is better off having Trek revamp his line - especially with steel and Ti model which will help the brand's selection anyway.


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## superjesus

Ventruck said:


> I think LeMond is better off having Trek revamp his line - especially with steel and Ti model which will help the brand's selection anyway.


I'd be game. Be nice if Trek had a trade-in program for all the people their former endorser duped into buying a Madone. I'm not saying I know any of these people personally, but surely they must exist somewhere.


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## MaddSkillz

superjesus said:


> I'd be game. Be nice if Trek had a trade-in program for all the people their former endorser duped into buying a Madone. I'm not saying I know any of these people personally, but surely they must exist somewhere.


These people are everywhere. As Lance's popularity grew, so did Trek's bottom line. 

It will be very interesting to see what becomes of Trek in the months and years to come. Their marketing department is going to have to put in real work instead of simply slapping pictures of LA riding their bikes I'm their ads.


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## kbwh

Last Trek advert I noticed had Frank Schleck in it. Hah!


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## SFTifoso

Trek will do whatever makes them the most money. /thread


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## Brad the Bold

sir duke said:


> I think that's _exactly_ what he's saying. Lemond was put in the feeder by the Lance worshippers, but at the end of the day, _no proof, _nada. The truth is that those who suspected Lance had a brush that was nowhere near wide enough. Let's put the guilt where it belongs.


Wait I think I'm failing reading comp.

Are you saying HokeyPokey is a Lance Fan boy still trying to bring up lance by bringing down LeMond or are you are saying LeMond was absolutely a doper too?

I'm thinking the first...but

Forgive me if it's seems obvious to you.


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## Chainstay

Brad the Bold said:


> I agree.
> 
> LeMond drew me to the sport in the early 1980's when I was in high school. But as Lance came to the forefront I was a big fan, and LeMond faded.
> 
> At the time that Lance was winning his first tours and starting to eclipse LeMond as the first answer to the "Name the greatest American TdF Champion" I started to feel that Greg LeMond was just a bitter has been. He was a sour grapes curmudgeon that couldn't let go enough to embrace the new hero that had replaced him. And Lance definately fed into that perception, passively in public but actively and viciously behind the scenes.
> 
> I was wrong. LeMond was right.
> 
> He was right about Lance. He was right about Postal. He was right about Floyd. He was right about UCI.


Good post. I have come back to being a Greg Lemond fan. In a rivalry for the ages he put the badger in his place, second.

He knew the truth and spoke out, unlike so many others.


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## Fireform

https://www.cyclinghalloffame.com/riders/pics/lemond_g15.jpg


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## Tschai

Fireform said:


> https://www.cyclinghalloffame.com/riders/pics/lemond_g15.jpg


Perhaps the best cycling photo of all time.


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## gregario

Fireform said:


> https://www.cyclinghalloffame.com/riders/pics/lemond_g15.jpg


I have a framed poster of that on my wall signed personally by the Man himself.


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## g29er

I never bought into the notion that LeMond was jealous of Lance. LeMond had his time, and I am sure he would have liked to see another American be successful in cycling. But I think he knew that something was fishy. I will admit, I drank the Lance kool aid to for a while. And I used to get mad about how people would persecute someone without a positive test. But as the facts came out, I realized I was being a fool. Ironically my two favorite years of the Tour were 2003 and 1989. 

Trek kinda got off easy with the LeMond settlement. LeMond maybe got a little bit of money and a contribution to 1in6.org, but at the end of the day Lance and Trek did a good job of making LeMond look like a liar. Even though I will admit that LeMond did sometimes come across as being whiny. 

What's ironic is that LeMond is now more marketable than Lance.


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## g29er

High Gear said:


> LeMond's ruled the road back in the early 00's


True that. I used to see alot of LeMonds when I was out. I rode a Lemond...eh...I mean a Gary Fisher AR Super for a while and liked it.


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## cda 455

Tschai said:


> Perhaps the best cycling photo of all time.





gregario said:


> I have a framed poster of that on my wall signed personally by the Man himself.


What's the story behind that pic?



I've seen it many times but don't know the story.

Was that a mad sprint?


Edit:

Found it:



> Later that year in Chamberry, France, Lemond was able to pull off a rare Tour de France-World Championship Road Race double, by attacking Fignon in the closing stages then sprinting past Dmitri Konyshev of Russia and Sean Kelly of Ireland for victory in the Worlds.


Cycling Hall of Fame.com


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## cda 455

Tschai said:


> Perhaps the best cycling photo of all time.





gregario said:


> I have a framed poster of that on my wall signed personally by the Man himself.


Thanks again guys for sharing your opinions :thumbsup: !


Two things that stood out watching the vid:

1) A *Soviet *rider!

2) Fignon got smoked again  !!
///


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## cda 455

Another thing that I caught in the vid:

Greg LeMond was riding a CF frame bike.


Was this a first in the peleton?


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## albert owen

LeMond has come out of this with his reputation enhanced. Armstrong and all his fellow travellers have brought cycle racing to its knees.
I applaud Rabobank's decision to pull out and Sky's decision to sack all dopers. The way forward is to clean out the stable and start again with a re-constituted UCI with a draconian anti-doping policy :-

Lifetime Ban for anyone caught doping in the future and the team to which the doper belongs.

A Truth and Reconciliation period where all riders who have doped in the past confess. Any rider found to have doped in the past who does not confess - a Lifetime Ban.
All guilty Team Managers etc, to be similarly obliged to confess or walk the plank.

It is the only way. If something like the above does not happen - cycling is finished as a mainstream professional sport.


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## paredown

cda 455 said:


> Thanks again guys for sharing your opinions :thumbsup: !
> 
> 
> Two things that stood out watching the vid:
> 
> 1) A *Soviet *rider!
> 
> 2) Fignon got smoked again  !!


Wow--that made my day. This is when I was not paying attention to cycling.


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## Kristatos

Lemond was amazing in those clutch moments and could uncork a heck of a sprint at the end of a long hard day. Sean Kelly was no slouch!


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## Fireform

Fignon was a great one, too, and I think underappreciated today. Thanks for the video!


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## sir duke

Brad the Bold said:


> Wait I think I'm failing reading comp.
> 
> Are you saying HokeyPokey is a Lance Fan boy still trying to bring up lance by bringing down LeMond or are you are saying LeMond was absolutely a doper too?
> 
> I'm thinking the first...but
> 
> Forgive me if it's seems obvious to you.


You could always ask Hokey Pokey. But if Hokey Pokey is saying he thinks Lemond's B samples could come up positive today then he's leaving himself open to that assertion. No I don't believe at all that Lemond doped, based on what I know and what others in the sport have said. It seemed clear enough to me and others here.


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## kiwisimon

Would love GL to team up with a classy builder based in the US to produce a line of bikes based on GL's design philosophy. Name the models, Truth, Clean, Vindication and Pride.


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## sir duke

And look, there's Lemond beating another doper (yes, Kelly doped, though he never admitted it). Never heard him speak out against Mr Mellow. Why is that?


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## cda 455

kiwisimon said:


> Would love GL to team up with a classy builder based in the US to produce a line of bikes based on GL's design philosophy. Name the models, Truth, Clean, Vindication and Pride.


That would be super awesome  :thumbsup: !



I really do hope he starts building bikes again.


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## OldEndicottHiway

In the whole Lance vs. LeMond thing, I thought perhaps Greg was letting his mouth run away from him a bit too much, but _never_ thought he was being irrational in his claims. 

It all made sense. 

And time-wise for the appearance of Epo, it made sense when he relayed that in his last year, he knew something was up as all of a sudden '_guys that the previous year couldn't climb to save their lives, were passing me like I was standing still.'_

I'm very pleased that folks like Greg who were squashed by the LA machine, are getting vindicated. LA was fun to watch race, but what a Caligula. Evil, actually. Very sad he chose the path that he did of playing God (or maybe Satan) off the field, as well as on.


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## kmak

Does this mean that if Lance wants a new bike he might actually have to buy it? When do you think was the last time that happened? Do you think he is still going to ride his Trek stable of bikes?


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## cda 455

kmak said:


> Does this mean that if Lance wants a new bike he might actually have to buy it? When do you think was the last time that happened? Do you think he is still going to ride his Trek stable of bikes?



I think that's the last thing on his mind right now.


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## atpjunkie

I have met them both (Lance and Greg). I found neither to be jerks. Lemond I found genuinely engaging. In fact he was talking to me so much his handlers had to drag him away as he was late for an appearance due to our conversation.


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## MR_GRUMPY

"Armstrong is obsessed with LeMond. He hired a PR firm to smear him"


What is the name of this PR firm???????
.
Who claims that their job was to smear him?????

What proof do they have????
.
.


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## MR_GRUMPY

Did LeMond ever promote Treks?????

When you work for a company, and you dislike the number one product symbol, you can't complain if you get fired for badmouthing him. You should just leave the company.....and money....and tell people why you left.......You can't have it both ways.

Whisle blowers always get fired when they get caught. Not many cry about getting fired.
Business is business.
.
.


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## atpjunkie

*Fignon*



cda 455 said:


> Another thing that I caught in the vid:
> 
> Greg LeMond was riding a CF frame bike.
> 
> 
> Was this a first in the peleton?


on C Record with Delta brakes

Lemond beating Kelly in a sprint

One of the great WCs of all time


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## atpjunkie

*as did*



sir duke said:


> And look, there's Lemond beating another doper (yes, Kelly doped, though he never admitted it). Never heard him speak out against Mr Mellow. Why is that?


Fignon. When the professor fell ill he seemed to intimate it was related to his abuses as a rider


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## Doctor Falsetti

kmak said:


> Does this mean that if Lance wants a new bike he might actually have to buy it? When do you think was the last time that happened? Do you think he is still going to ride his Trek stable of bikes?


The stuff with Trek has been going on for a while and has been very heated, some would say threatening. A month ago Armstrong did a MTB race and showed up on a unmarked bike....Trek backed down for a while


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## Doctor Falsetti

MR_GRUMPY said:


> Did LeMond ever promote Treks?????
> 
> When you work for a company, and you dislike the number one product symbol, you can't complain if you get fired for badmouthing him. You should just leave the company.....and money....and tell people why you left.......You can't have it both ways.
> 
> Whisle blowers always get fired when they get caught. Not many cry about getting fired.
> Business is business.
> .
> .


Greg's comments were tame. He was fired because Lance demanded it.


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## Keski

Imagine if Lemond sold the rights to his name to Bikes Direct........


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## tjeepdrv

According to the little cards all over Mellow Johnny's, the only bike Lance has ever paid for himself was a Naked brand bike a couple of years ago.


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## Doctor Falsetti

MR_GRUMPY said:


> "Armstrong is obsessed with LeMond. He hired a PR firm to smear him"
> 
> 
> What is the name of this PR firm???????
> .
> Who claims that their job was to smear him?????
> 
> What proof do they have????
> .
> .


Public Strategies

Public Strategies, Inc.

The share an office building with Armstrong's Management company, CSE. They wrote this absurd PPT for Trek's failed lawsuit
Trek Ppt Final

Livestrong even joined in. After Armstrong instructed a room full of interns to get on the internet to smear Greg this place was filled with garbage. They even had a board meeting about how best screw Greg. It offended one board member so much that he resigned and sent Greg a letter apologizing.


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## slegros

Doctor Falsetti said:


> Greg called Burke a pervert?
> 
> Greg voiced what most of the sport felt, disappointment in Armstrong working with Ferrari


LeMond seems at times to lack the censorship mechanism that some of us have. It makes him refreshingly candid IMO, but it has also gotten him into hot water at times.....

One of my favourite 'LeMondisms' happened when LeMond was discussing a rumour that Sean Kelly abstained for 1 week before a classic, and 2 weeks before a grand tour. LeMond said something like 'Looking at the race calendar for the past X years, if that's true it makes his wife a virgin.'

Gotta Love LeMond......


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## kmak

Regardless of whether LeMond was right on Armstrong (which he obviously was), he made bad business decisions. Making statements in public that damage his partner company was probably not the best thing to do; he should have taken the issue internally, and if he couldn't get it addressed to his liking, then exit the business. At that time, Lance Armstrong's success and popularity was a fact of life. the average bicycle buyer didn't want to hear anyone denigrate Armstrong.


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## CleavesF

^^^ Lemond is the whitleblower. Not all whitleblowers do it quietly or internally. As said before, I'm sure he wasn't a big surprise to get canned by Trek. 

Lemond is straight up. You don't need to be a rocket scientist to have scientific reasoning. I drank the LA Juice for a long time until early/mid 2000's when I read about the drug tests and the drugs themselves. After doing my own "independent research" I concluded he was a dope. I actually lost a friend over an LA argument over doping about 3 years ago. He was so offended that I would defame LA and his victories after his battle with cancer. Luckily I realize a "real" friend would not terminate a friendship over such things but he did. LA was a real hero to him. The support LA has gained, especially to his evangelical supporters, I don't think he will ever lose. Ever.


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## Doctor Falsetti

kmak said:


> Regardless of whether LeMond was right on Armstrong (which he obviously was), he made bad business decisions. Making statements in public that damage his partner company was probably not the best thing to do; he should have taken the issue internally, and if he couldn't get it addressed to his liking, then exit the business. At that time, Lance Armstrong's success and popularity was a fact of life. the average bicycle buyer didn't want to hear anyone denigrate Armstrong.


I suggest going back and read what Greg actually said. The quote that touched it off



> When Lance won the prologue to the 1999 Tour I was close to tears, but when I heard he was working with Michele Ferrari I was devastated. In the light of Lance's relationship with Ferrari, I just don't want to comment on this year's Tour. This is not sour grapes. I'm disappointed in Lance, that's all it is


That's it. This set lance off. He told a dinner table filled with people that he was going to call John Burke and "Sink' Greg. He called Greg and threatened him. Said he would ruin his business and find 10 guys who would say Greg took EPO. He pushed Livestrong interns to smear him and Trek pressured him to sign a statement. Burke admitted to Greg that it was extortion but the had to make lance happy

Lance then set out to try to find a teammate or staff that would say Greg doped. None would. So they started to offer money, lots of it. Vincent Barteau and Johan Lammerts were offered $300,000 each to say Greg doped. They turned it down. 

I


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## Coolhand

*Moderators Note*

Everyone knock of the profanity filter subversion please.


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## g29er

Doctor Falsetti said:


> Public Strategies
> 
> Public Strategies, Inc.
> 
> The share an office building with Armstrong's Management company, CSE. They wrote this absurd PPT for Trek's failed lawsuit
> Trek Ppt Final
> 
> Livestrong even joined in. After Armstrong instructed a room full of interns to get on the internet to smear Greg this place was filled with garbage. They even had a board meeting about how best screw Greg. It offended one board member so much that he resigned and sent Greg a letter apologizing.


I had never read the Trek-Ppt Final before. Interesting stuff.


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## Richard

atpjunkie said:


> on C Record with Delta brakes
> 
> Lemond beating Kelly in a sprint
> 
> One of the great WCs of all time


Usually you're right. But in 1989, LeMond's team was Mavic equipped. If you look closely, you can read "Mavic" on the fork.


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## sir duke

atpjunkie said:


> Fignon. When the professor fell ill he seemed to intimate it was related to his abuses as a rider


Watching Fignon lose the TDF to Lemond will always stay with me. I've never seen anyone look so shattered by defeat. You could see how the sport was changing in front of your eyes, the old school romantic being beaten by a great new talent open to new ideas (aerobars). Hinault, Lemond, Fignon and Kelly was really the last golden age of cycling for me. I don't know if Fignon ever got beyond guessing what caused his cancer. Anquetil died of cancer too and was candid about his doping regime. I'd have to say the link is tenuous though.


----------



## Fireform

Fignon's complaint about Lemond's aerobars always rang hollow. His DS knew all about them and could have easily put Fignon on them. Fignon used advanced aero bikes before and enjoyed winning on them over guys on inferior bikes. Note that he had disk wheels front and back in that race, while Lemond used only a rear disk. Really, they just blew it. Greg used to tell him that they both won, and that he should have been mad at Cyrile Guimard, not at Greg.


----------



## cda 455

sir duke said:


> Watching Fignon lose the TDF to Lemond will always stay with me. I've never seen anyone look so shattered by defeat. You could see how the sport was changing in front of your eyes, the old school romantic being beaten by a great new talent open to new ideas (aerobars). Hinault, Lemond, Fignon and Kelly was really the last golden age of cycling for me. I don't know if Fignon ever got beyond guessing what caused his cancer. Anquetil died of cancer too and was candid about his doping regime. I'd have to say the link is tenuous though.





Fireform said:


> Fignon's complaint about Lemond's aerobars always rang hollow. His DS knew all about them and could have easily put Fignon on them. Fignon used advanced aero bikes before and enjoyed winning on them over guys on inferior bikes. Note that he had disk wheels front and back in that race, while Lemond used only a rear disk. Really, they just blew it. Greg used to tell him that they both won, and that he should have been mad at Cyrile Guimard, not at Greg.




Didn't Fignon turn down the use of an aero bar for that TT?






BTW Sir Duke, Talk about a picture saying a 1,000 words:
///


----------



## kmak

Chris-X said:


> Do you know what a "mensch" is?
> 
> Fortunately not everyone shares your opinion of what proper "business decisions" consist of.


Does a "mensch" buy $2.5 million of bicycles from Trek using employee discount pricing? When he got 15 free bicycles per year under his contract? The guy is no angel. Please. And what he said may have been accurate, but it wasn't good for his business.


----------



## burgrat

LeMond speaking about the UCI decision:

http://www.velonation.com/News/ID/13128/Video-Triple-Tour-de-France-winner-Greg-LeMond-speaks-in-exclusive-interview.aspx


----------



## Doctor Falsetti

kmak said:


> Does a "mensch" buy $2.5 million of bicycles from Trek using employee discount pricing? When he got 15 free bicycles per year under his contract? The guy is no angel. Please. And what he said may have been accurate, but it wasn't good for his business.


This was shown to be a lie and it was dropped from the Trek Lawsuit.....but it appears it had the desired effect, some people actually believed it


----------



## mariomal99

burgrat said:


> LeMond speaking about the UCI decision:
> 
> Video: Triple Tour de France winner Greg LeMond speaks in exclusive interview


wow lemond looks very happy....looks like he won another 7 tours


----------



## LostViking

albert owen said:


> LeMond has come out of this with his reputation enhanced. Armstrong and all his fellow travellers have brought cycle racing to its knees.
> I applaud Rabobank's decision to pull out and Sky's decision to sack all dopers. The way forward is to clean out the stable and start again with a re-constituted UCI with a draconian anti-doping policy :-
> 
> Lifetime Ban for anyone caught doping in the future and the team to which the doper belongs.
> 
> A Truth and Reconciliation period where all riders who have doped in the past confess. Any rider found to have doped in the past who does not confess - a Lifetime Ban.
> All guilty Team Managers etc, to be similarly obliged to confess or walk the plank.
> 
> It is the only way. If something like the above does not happen - cycling is finished as a mainstream professional sport.


Pretty tough, but I kind of agree. The dopers need to be forced out - the two year ban/two years no-points is stupid. Ban them for the full four years or do as suggested - ban them for life. The existing structure makes no sense to me.

Tagert is right about the T&R thing - lets get this out of the system - allow those who aren't confessing out of fear to do so now with minimal suspensions - any future doper who gets caught is toast - say Jan 1 of 2013 is your deadline - after that, if you get caught you're out forever - no affiliation with racing allowed.

Some might argue that a rash of confessions now would do more harm then good. I disagree - if this is not to become another Festina where big pronouncements were made and no real change - we need to exercise this from the system. A true house-cleaning needs to take place. This includes the UCI - the President and the Board must step down.


----------



## Doctor Falsetti

http://reader.roopstigo.com/view/roopster/story/595#/chapter/4/



> Burke: He is going to escalate it. He will do whatever he can to f*ck you
> 
> Burke: and he will do whatever he can to screw us


----------



## Creakyknees




----------



## Tschai

kmak said:


> Does a "mensch" buy $2.5 million of bicycles from Trek using employee discount pricing? When he got 15 free bicycles per year under his contract? The guy is no angel. Please. And what he said may have been accurate, but it wasn't good for his business.


Wrong. Do you think Greg bought $2.5 million in bikes without Trek knowing about it? What did Trek think these bikes were for, Greg's buddies? The claim is absolutely false.

As I have said, in terms of making statements not good for his business, it was Lance that set things in motion against Greg. Lance made the decision to go after Greg because Lance has the world's second largest out of control ego. Had Lance done nothing, there would have been no lawsuit and no loss in sales. Greg's comments were tame and had nothing to do with Trek.


----------



## mpre53

Tschai said:


> Wrong. Do you think Greg bought $2.5 million in bikes without Trek knowing about it? What did Trek think these bikes were for, Greg's buddies? The claim is absolutely false.
> 
> As I have said, in terms of making statements not good for his business, it was Lance that set things in motion against Greg. Lance made the decision to go after Greg because Lance has the world's second largest out of control ego. Had Lance done nothing, there would have been no lawsuit and no loss in sales. Greg's comments were tame and had nothing to do with Trek.


Just out of curiosity, who do you rank first?


----------



## Tschai

mpre53 said:


> Just out of curiosity, who do you rank first?


Trump.


----------



## rydbyk

Doctor Falsetti said:


> Atavist Web Viewer


what is that a link from? is there more? i could only read 4 pages of it BUT whoa!!! if correct, then what a jerk.


----------



## cda 455

rydbyk said:


> what is that a link from? is there more? i could only read 4 pages of it BUT whoa!!! if correct, then what a jerk.


Yeah, I wish LA's biggest problem was just the lying and the doping  .



But that dude was pure evil. The way he went after people for criticizing him and attempting to out him was pretty horrific. Even if he was clean and everyone else was lying about him, he went waaaay above and beyond the call of evilness.


----------



## mpre53

Tschai said:


> Trump.


A fine choice. :thumbsup:


----------



## Doctor Falsetti

rydbyk said:


> what is that a link from? is there more? i could only read 4 pages of it BUT whoa!!! if correct, then what a jerk.


Don't worry......much more to come


----------



## High Gear

rufus said:


> And every successive Tour that Lance won made me feel even worse, that people would soon forget about Greg Lemond, and consider him just a washed-up has-been, who was jealous of the kid who did what he couldn't. And each successive year, it hurt just a bit more that Lemond kept getting pushed further and further into the back pages of history.
> 
> Lemond was a hero of mine. Never cared for Lance, even when he just starting out riding for Subaru-Montgomery.


How could anyone dislike this guy??


----------



## CleavesF

^^^ That's it, I'm running to the border. 

excellent vintage video.


----------



## mikez

The LeMond is now a classic and worth more is it not?


----------



## Bluenote

I think LeMond has reason to be angry with Trek. He had a contract with them. His comments on doping, at least at first, were pretty low key. It doesn't do cycling any good when people don't speak out about doping. 

But then it got blown into this whole LA vs Lemond thing and Trek sided with LA. Trek could have told LA "no", called his bluff. I mean, if he had left Trek because Lemond had the audacity to talk about doing, he would have looked guilty as hell. 

I think Trek has damaged their brand reputation over all this.


----------



## Local Hero

cda 455 said:


> Yeah, I wish LA's biggest problem was just the lying and the doping  .
> 
> 
> 
> But that dude was *pure evil.* The way he went after people for criticizing him and attempting to out him was pretty horrific. Even if he was clean and everyone else was lying about him, he went waaaay above and beyond the call of* evilness.*


Evil is over the top. 


Don't get me wrong. I think Armstrong called the UCI on Tyler Hamilton. He also intimidated, lied, bribed, and did a number of nasty things we've never heard about. I wouldn't be shocked if I found out that Armstrong somehow arranged to have competitors' blood bags mixed up. 

But "pure evil"? Give me a break.


----------



## spade2you

Local Hero said:


> But "pure evil"? Give me a break.


I knew you were an Armstrong supporter! 











(this is a joke, yeah, I know, NOT FUNNY) (Local Hero would get it, just explaining it to the rest of ya) (I know, REPORTED!!)


----------



## davidka

I don't believe LA had any pull inside Trek to "go after" Lemond. Based on what I was hearing in shops, it simply crashed Lemond's brand. People would not buy the bikes despite their being very good (I still have one). Could the brand be re-launched? Who knows, but if a big player like Trek couldn't make it work then I see him having a hard time writing another deal with someone else.


----------



## Fireform

davidka said:


> I don't believe LA had any pull inside Trek to "go after" Lemond.


Really? He was the face of the company for many years. If he had no pull why did Sensenbrenner go on the warpath for him?


----------



## davidka

Fireform said:


> Really? He was the face of the company for many years. If he had no pull why did Sensenbrenner go on the warpath for him?


And just like that, they severed ties with him. He's just a jock, they're just a bike company. LA gets more credit than he deserves.


----------



## Doctor Falsetti

Walsh on LeMond: Enduring the vengeance of Armstrong

David Walsh on Armstrong's efforts to smear LeMond


----------



## cda 455

Doctor Falsetti said:


> Walsh on LeMond: Enduring the vengeance of Armstrong
> 
> David Walsh on Armstrong's efforts to smear LeMond


I'm reading all of the installments now.

Thanks for sharing.


----------



## Doctor Falsetti

> “The harm is not so much from an ego point of view – it’s the case that cycling was my life, I loved the sport, I had bikes I loved, and also designing new products. But there was a group effort to shut me out.


LeMond: Any Armstrong apology has to be heartfelt and with true remorse


----------



## Doctor Falsetti

Want a LeMond bike? Tell Greg what you are looking for

LeMond Bicycles


----------



## cda 455

Doctor Falsetti said:


> Want a LeMond bike? Tell Greg what you are looking for
> 
> LeMond Bicycles


Thanks for the link!


I just filled it out :thumbsup: !


----------



## Alaska Mike

Greg recently bought back the rights for the LeMond Revolution, and is planning on coming up with more accessories to go with it. I love mine, so I'm extremely happy that he's back on board and inspired to keep innovating. Hope he recovers quickly from the accident.


----------



## rydbyk

Me too. Coolness.


----------



## AndrwSwitch

My main training/occasional competition road bike is a LeMond. I filled out the form a while ago; it would be cool to see new LeMonds again.


----------



## Marco18

He also has 3 TdF titles.......something Lance doesn't......


----------



## High Gear

This was a welcome site to my eyes. On the back page of Paved magazine, Time is using Greg for their pedal advertisement.
View attachment 277755


----------



## SystemShock

One of my bikes is a LeMond Nevada City, upgraded with Rival.

In light of recent events, it just became even cooler.


----------



## SystemShock

cda 455 said:


> Yeah, I wish LA's biggest problem was just the lying and the doping  .
> 
> 
> But that dude was pure evil. The way he went after people for criticizing him and attempting to out him was pretty horrific. Even if he was clean and everyone else was lying about him, he went waaaay above and beyond the call of evilness.


Sums it up.


----------



## mpre53

High Gear said:


> This was a welcome site to my eyes. On the back page of Paved magazine, Time is using Greg for their pedal advertisement.
> View attachment 277755


He's always been more marketable in France than in the US. Beyond the French surname, the fact that he speaks fluent French doesn't hurt. :wink:


----------



## mariomal99

Was there any dopers in the years that G Lemond won? If so how did Greg beat the dopers?


----------



## High Gear

Read this and then you will know.
Breaking the Chain: Drugs and Cycling: The True Story: Willy Voet: 9780224061179: Amazon.com: Books



mariomal99 said:


> Was there any dopers in the years that G Lemond won? If so how did Greg beat the dopers?


----------



## rufus

mariomal99 said:


> Was there any dopers in the years that G Lemond won? If so how did Greg beat the dopers?


Doping then didn't give as much of a performance boost like the intro of EPO did. It may have helped some, possibly as much psychologically as physically, but it wasn't the end-all be all performance enhancer that blood boosting. 

I compare it to putting a high flow exhaust, or cold air injection into a car, versus putting in a bigger, more powerful engine. One offers far more of a performance advantage. Once EPO began showing up in the pro peloton, Greg and a lot of other clean racers couldn't keep up with even the worst of the scrubs.


----------



## Cinelli 82220

High Gear said:


> This was a welcome site to my eyes. On the back page of Paved magazine, Time is using Greg for their pedal advertisement.
> View attachment 277755


Another mag, I think it was Cyclist from the UK, has a Time pedal ad on the back with Lemond.
The slogan is "Better than Dope".....


----------



## cda 455

mariomal99 said:


> Was there any dopers in the years that G Lemond won? If so how did Greg beat the dopers?


The short answer: Yes.


But not the EPO dopers. 

When he abandoned the 1994 TDF after the first week, EPO by then was going full-bore in the peleton. He said riders that he used to drop in the mountains during his several Tours were suddenly dropping him within one season; about 1991 or 1992. 


Greg basically beat the Amphetamines crowd.


----------



## cda 455

rufus said:


> Doping then didn't give as much of a performance boost like the intro of EPO did. It may have helped some, possibly as much psychologically as physically, but it wasn't the end-all be all performance enhancer that blood boosting.
> 
> I compare it to putting a high flow exhaust, or cold air injection into a car, versus putting in a bigger, more powerful engine. One offers far more of a performance advantage. Once EPO began showing up in the pro peloton, Greg and a lot of other clean racers couldn't keep up with even the worst of the scrubs.



Yep. Very good analogy.


----------



## SystemShock

It's interesting how (what appear to be) some of the remnants of the pro-Lance crowd bitterly like to snipe that Greg must've doped too.

I guess it's the ole "My guy is a POS, so EVERYONE must be a POS" -theory. 

Also known as the "none can be better than Lance, it's unpossible!" theory. :skep:


----------



## jim brewer

Cinelli 82220 said:


> Another mag, I think it was Cyclist from the UK, has a Time pedal ad on the back with Lemond.
> The slogan is "Better than Dope".....


Love it!


----------



## mpre53

cda 455 said:


> The short answer: Yes.
> 
> 
> But not the EPO dopers.
> 
> When he abandoned the 1994 TDF after the first week, EPO by then was going full-bore in the peleton. He said riders that he used to drop in the mountains during his several Tours were suddenly dropping him within one season; about 1991 or 1992.
> 
> 
> Greg basically beat the Amphetamines crowd.


Some, like Fignon, were also using testosterone. But Fignon also wrote that in the late 80s, there was rampant cocaine use, too. As was true in much of what was considered polite society back then.


----------



## Rokh On

*Paved Spring 2013*



jim brewer said:


> Love it!


The spring edition of Paved has the Lemond pic for the top half of the back cover and the Time Xpresso 12 ti-carbon pedal for the bottom half. In the add for the pedal they do a play on words using "BARELY LEGAL" all in caps.

Big letters in the upper left hand section of the rear cover next to Lemond in all caps 

"BETTER THAN DRUGS"


----------



## High Gear

*LeMond back in the bike business!*

Who needs Trek?

Greg LeMond and Time team up to reintroduce LeMond bikes, launch at Interbike next week


----------



## SystemShock

High Gear said:


> Who needs Trek?
> 
> Greg LeMond and Time team up to reintroduce LeMond bikes, launch at Interbike next week


This is good news. 

And Trek missed out. But I'm sure they're still counting all the money they made off of Lance, while happy that none of the Lance-stink seems to have rubbed off on them...


----------



## AndrwSwitch

Nice.

If the brand is around and I can afford it whenever I decide to get a new road bike, I'll have to give them a look.


----------



## Slartibartfast

I coveted Lemond bikes, back in the day! Like most American cyclists of the time my hero was Greg, and I had to have one of his bikes. But the top tubes were too long for my unflexible body, and when I could finally afford a high-end bike, it ended up being a Trek -- irony of ironies.

I wish him the very best with his new line. :thumbsup:


----------



## High Gear

Both Time and LOOK are pioneers in carbon frame production. I would expect something real good to come of this. I'm very happy for Greg.


----------



## mpre53

SystemShock said:


> And Trek missed out. But I'm sure they're still counting all the money they made off of Lance, while happy that none of the Lance-stink seems to have rubbed off on them...


Burke must be doing a novena every week, praying that Fabulous Fabian, Jens and Horner never get popped.


----------



## mtsheron

mariomal99 said:


> Was there any dopers in the years that G Lemond won? If so how did Greg beat the dopers?


They have been doping for generations..............but in recent decade(s) has not been an issue until the big baseball scnadal that had far more reaching arms than anyone in the sporting world could have imagined or devised themselves.

Here is a thought..................I am not saying either way mind you. Would you rather see freaks of nature playing sports or just everyday guys????

I want to be entertained so if everyone could ride a tour or hit a ball what is the use?

Now before you throw rocks and bricks...........think about it for a moment.

But we all know for many many many years football has been inudated with steroids but has for the most part gone under the radar or a blind eye.

Bottom line................in all reality it seperates those willing to whatever from those not. Once again I am not saying I like it or in favor, but want to see the best athlete on the field and if they need to enhance then let them.


----------



## Guest

I am glad Trek and Lemond are back in business I guess. LeMond was right about everything it seems.


----------



## davidka

rufus said:


> Doping then didn't give as much of a performance boost like the intro of EPO did. It may have helped some, possibly as much psychologically as physically, but it wasn't the end-all be all performance enhancer that blood boosting.


It seems awfully common for cycling fans to draw a line between epo use and everything before it and it's wrong. Blood doping occurred prior to epo as well as many effective recovery aids like testosterone, cortisone, and other steroids. These are all as important as epo in a GT. He who recovers the best, wins (this is also one of the main benefits of epo).

Lemond rode the fastest TT in history on the last day of the TdF. That's impossible without pharmacudical aids. Athletes are supposed to get weaker over long periods of stress, not stronger.


----------



## SystemShock

davidka said:


> Lemond rode the fastest TT in history on the last day of the TdF. That's impossible without pharmacudical aids. Athletes are supposed to get weaker over long periods of stress, not stronger.


I think Lemond's use of aero bars, it being a slightly downhill course, and it being a short TT all may've had something to do with it, yes? Plus the adrenalin of knowing he really could win it all with a good performance on that particular day.


----------



## mpre53

lighthouse54.1 said:


> I am glad Trek and Lemond are back in business I guess. LeMond was right about everything it seems.


Trek has nothing to do with the new line of LeMond bikes. They're being made by Time.


----------



## burgrat

davidka said:


> Lemond rode the fastest TT in history on the last day of the TdF. That's impossible without pharmacudical aids. Athletes are supposed to get weaker over long periods of stress, not stronger.


LeMond did not ride the fastest TT, that would be Dave Z in 2005 (*juiced?!). 
BTW, LeMond's TT was a little over 12 miles and had an overall decline in elevation. I think if they did a tt over the same distance (or course) today, several riders would likely break his mark.
The only pharmaceutical help Greg had was massive doses of American awesomeness! 

As far as athletes getting weaker over long periods of stress, you obviously did not watch this year's Vuelta!


----------



## davidka

burgrat said:


> LeMond did not ride the fastest TT, that would be Dave Z in 2005 (*juiced?!).
> BTW, LeMond's TT was a little over 12 miles and had an overall decline in elevation. I think if they did a tt over the same distance (or course) today, several riders would likely break his mark.
> The only pharmaceutical help Greg had was massive doses of American awesomeness!
> 
> As far as athletes getting weaker over long periods of stress, you obviously did not watch this year's Vuelta!


 It has been 25+ years with all kinds of advances in equipment and doping practices. Lemond's avg. speed should have been buried under dozens of faster speeds on more challenging courses. 

I did watch this year's Vuelta and the riders clearly did get weaker through the race. Nibali spoke about it happening to him in interviews.


----------



## burgrat

davidka said:


> It has been 25+ years with all kinds of advances in equipment and doping practices. Lemond's avg. speed should have been buried under dozens of faster speeds on more challenging courses.


So you're saying he's the best pro rider last 25+ years has seen? I agree :thumbsup:


----------



## cda 455

SystemShock said:


> I think Lemond's use of aero bars, it being a slightly downhill course, and it being a short TT all may've had something to do with it, yes? Plus the adrenalin of knowing he really could win it all with a good performance on that particular day.


Absolutely. Or should I say, _"Egg-Zac-Lee!"_ ?!


Greg said he didn't want to know any info during the race (Time, speed etc). He wanted the motivation of going wide open the whole TT.

Another factor was that Fignon was suffering from saddle sores. 

It was also suggested that Fignon's long hair cost him as much as 3-5sec during the TT.


But Fignon using bull horns on his TT bike (With two solid rims, BTW) with his arms and chest sticking out makes for huge wind drag as well as his long hair flying freely (From a ponytail). Greg was in a complete tucked position and wearing a smooth aerodynamic helmet.


----------



## Cinelli 82220

cda 455 said:


> It was also suggested that Fignon's long hair cost him as much as 3-5sec during the TT.


Which was baffling because he had used aero helmets in other races.

I remember watching that race. Fignon was definitely off form, he was not his usual self. Lemond was perfect.


----------



## davidka

Fireform said:


> Oh yes. I call them the butthurt militia, and they are legion.


Nobody's butthurt, just stating the obvious. They're entertainers and doping has always occurred in all sports. Lemond beat admitted dopers in a 3 week race. It's not hard to figure out, knowing the benefits of doping, that he didn't do that on bread and water. In the end he got old. They all do eventually.

Get over the idea that you were somehow "cheated" because someone who owes you nothing didn't live up to your expectations and enjoy the show.


----------



## Fireform

davidka said:


> Nobody's butthurt, just stating the obvious. They're entertainers and doping has always occurred in all sports. Lemond beat admitted dopers in a 3 week race. It's not hard to figure out, knowing the benefits of doping, that he didn't do that on bread and water. In the end he got old. They all do eventually.
> 
> Get over the idea that you were somehow "cheated" because someone who owes you nothing didn't live up to your expectations and enjoy the show.


Did I say you were butthurt? No. I'm sorry if I struck a nerve but that was not directed at you.

Having said that, your flimsy, ad-hoc attacks on LeMond have been trashed so thoroughly and so often that 1) it's pointless to restate them here because you're clearly ignoring them anyway, and 2) it's clear that the direct conflict between your statements and those of everyone who was in a position to know at the time causes you no embarrassment. Plainly Greg had to be doping in secret--that's why he walked away from the richest contract in pro cycling over the team pressuring him to take testosterone. Makes perfect sense.

Anyone arriving late to this party can make profitable use of the search function. Anyone who has been following this situation all along already knows what they think of your arguments.


----------



## SystemShock

Fireform said:


> Did I say you were butthurt? No. I'm sorry if I struck a nerve but that was not directed at you.
> 
> Having said that, your flimsy, ad-hoc attacks on LeMond have been trashed so thoroughly and so often that 1) it's pointless to restate them here because you're clearly ignoring them anyway, and 2) it's clear that the direct conflict between your statements and those of everyone who was in a position to know at the time causes you no embarrassment. Plainly Greg had to be doping in secret--that's why he walked away from the richest contract in pro cycling over the team pressuring him to take testosterone. Makes perfect sense.
> 
> Anyone arriving late to this party can make profitable use of the search function. Anyone who has been following this situation all along already knows what they think of your arguments.


Sums it up.


----------



## davidka

Fireform said:


> .
> 
> Having said that, your flimsy, ad-hoc attacks on LeMond have been trashed so thoroughly and so often that 1) it's pointless to restate them here because you're clearly ignoring them anyway, and 2) it's clear that the direct conflict between your statements and those of everyone who was in a position to know at the time causes you no embarrassment. Plainly Greg had to be doping in secret--that's why he walked away from the richest contract in pro cycling over the team pressuring him to take testosterone. Makes perfect sense.
> 
> Anyone arriving late to this party can make profitable use of the search function. Anyone who has been following this situation all along already knows what they think of your arguments.


I know the arguments and have been paying attention since Greg was racing. He's not the angel his fans would like to believe. He's a flawed man with an addictive and vindictive personality (I suppose you know he's sued for far more money than he ever made from cycling). He did a good job of being personable so that side of him is well concealed from the cycling community. The points his fans make that "prove" he was clean are just as real as those that "proved" LA was. Doping wasn't vilified in Greg's day and nobody has any reason to roll over on him.


----------



## Doctor Falsetti

davidka said:


> I know the arguments and have been paying attention since Greg was racing. He's not the angel his fans would like to believe. He's a flawed man with an addictive and vindictive personality (I suppose you know he's sued for far more money than he ever made from cycling). He did a good job of being personable so that side of him is well concealed from the cycling community. The points his fans make that "prove" he was clean are just as real as those that "proved" LA was. Doping wasn't vilified in Greg's day and nobody has any reason to roll over on him.


Nonsense. 

Armstrong offer hundreds of thousands of $$$ to get Greg's former teammates to lie and say Greg doped. None would take the offer. Greg is very active in the cycling community, his honesty and kindness are well known

You make an exaggerated claim about Greg making more from lawsuits the bike racing. Of course this is nonsense or you would provide a link.


----------



## davidka

Let me Google that for you...
Greg LeMond's lawsuit with exclusive club settled - USATODAY.com


----------



## cda 455

davidka said:


> Let me Google that for you...
> Greg LeMond's lawsuit with exclusive club settled - USATODAY.com


What does his investment lawsuit have to do with cycling  ???


Wow; Are you _that_ desperate to smear Greg  ??? 

And you're contradicting yourself. _Really_.


----------



## mpre53

cda 455 said:


> What does his investment lawsuit have to do with cycling  ???
> 
> 
> Wow; Are you _that_ desperate to smear Greg  ???
> 
> And you're contradicting yourself. _Really_.


Plus it was a settlement shared among several co-plaintiffs. Unclear what Greg's share of it was. Usually depends on the percentages of each plaintiff's investment and what's owed to each. And lawyers will be taking their third right off the top, so they're splitting 26 million among them.

Also, when Greg settled his suit with Trek, the settlement went right to his charitable foundation, 1 in 6.


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## mpre53

By the way, when you lose money by investing, you usually bear that risk. You just can't walk into a court and say, "Hey, I or my agent made bad choices and we lost our shirts. I want my money back". You run the risk of bad investment choices if no one did anything in bad faith or violated a fiduciary trust. You have to prove some kind of malfeasance. defendants with a viable defense to a lawsuit aren't in the habit of settling them for 39.5 million bucks. I can't imagine that it would have cost the guy anything even close to that to litigate the case.

Yup, if I felt that someone owed me a legitimate debt of several million dollars, I'd have to be a real slimeball to sue the guy, I guess.


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## Doctor Falsetti

davidka said:


> Let me Google that for you...
> Greg LeMond's lawsuit with exclusive club settled - USATODAY.com


Thanks for proving my point. 

Blixseth defaulted on the settlement, filed bankruptcy. Greg was one of many shareholders, his father in law was the main beneficiary of the settlement that was defaulted on


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## Cinelli 82220

mpre53 said:


> Plus it was a settlement shared among several co-plaintiffs.


Don't care! Don't care! They're all dopers too!


> Also, when Greg settled his suit with Trek, the settlement went right to his charitable foundation, 1 in 6.


la-la-la-la I DON'T HEAR YOU I DON'T HEAR YOU


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## davidka

cda 455 said:


> Wow; Are you _that_ desperate to smear Greg  ??? .


Well, no. I don't really care either way. No doper has ever cost me anything. I'm just pointing out how similar the lifestyle practices are between the guy you hate and the guy you love. They're very similar. Who knew it was so easy to paint over what should be thick suspicion with just a thin layer of tears.


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## Doctor Falsetti

davidka said:


> I'm just pointing out how similar the lifestyle practices are between the guy you hate and the guy you love. They're very similar.


Nonsense.


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## mpre53

Doctor Falsetti said:


> Nonsense.


You don't see how similar suing people over business deals gone bad is to suing truthful people to stop them from telling the truth? Shame on you. :lol:


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## cda 455

mpre53 said:


> You don't see how similar suing people over business deals gone bad is to suing truthful people to stop them from telling the truth? Shame on you. :lol:


:lol: :lol: 


Good one!


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