# Another Pinarello size dilemma



## MGS9500 (Aug 19, 2004)

Another Pinarello sizing dilemma. I currently ride a custom build bike that is getting a little old and long in the tooth. I have the option of buying a brand new Pinarello Dogma 2 from a dealer at an incredible price of almost $2000 dollars under list. 

The bike is a 57.5cm. I have done all the measurements and my current top tube is about 1.5cm shorter than the Pinarello. I have done some adjustments and find that if I use a 100mm stem, ( I currently use a 110mm, and push the seat forward about ½ cm, the reach is identical. It does move me somewhat forward with respect to seat/knee/pedal angle, but not a lot. 

I would have to drop the seat post, leaving only 11cm showing which is much less than is typically seen,, but the handle bars would need only a 1cm spacer. I’ve seen too many Pinarellos with 4cm or greater of spacers below the stem because of the aggressive drop and the too small frames chosen by some people. 

I feel that if the total seat to stem reach is ok, then I shouldn’t be too concerned about a slightly forward seat and shorter stem. 

As I noted, this is a steal of a deal on a legit bike from a dealer that has serial numbers and can be registered with Pinarello for warranty problems. My concern is about the fact that only about 11 cm of seat post is showing and most of the bikes that I see have about 15-20 cm of post.

All thoughts are appreciated


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## aureliajulia (May 25, 2009)

Can you test-ride the next smaller size somewhere?


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## MGS9500 (Aug 19, 2004)

Unfortunately, there is only one Pinarello dealer in my area and he does not have a 57.5 set up for a test ride. I hate to push a local dealer to set up a bike when I already have a frame.

The frame I have, although from a Pinarello dealer, was purchased out of state.


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## AJ88V (Nov 14, 2012)

If you haven't already done so, you might want to check the sizing tool on the Competitive Cyclist website.

competitivecyclist.com/za/CCY?PAGE=FIT_CALCULATOR_INTRO&INTRO_LINK=NOREDIR&nodecorator=true]Fit Calcualtor

You really need someone to help you do the measurements, because it is impossible to get good measurements by yourself.

When you are done the entering your measurements, you will be given dimensions for three different "fits": the Competitive fit, the Eddy fit, and the French fit. There is a button to see what each of these "fits" mean, but briefly they go from most racing/aggressive to most relaxed for distance.

I never went through this before, but noticed that the bikes I end up with a larger frame than recommended for racing and with little seat post showing, so I must be in the Eddy or French fit category for preference. When I do get on smaller bikes, I feel cramped. Maybe this looks weird compared to how young guys set up their bikes, but I'm old enough to not even care what I look like, at least compared to making the distance and doing it comfortably.


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## MGS9500 (Aug 19, 2004)

I've been through a professional fit and used other calculators. I agree, the one from Competitive Cyclist is a very good one and I appreciate the referral. I entered the numbers and still end up with the same dilemma. 

The Top tube of the bike based on my fit is about 1cm long, but the head tube and the seat tube are fine. So, the question is still, if a bikes reach can be accommodated by a shorter stem and moving the seat forward, is this ok.

Or, is it better to got with a longer stem and a more pushed back seat. 

Moving the seat does change the knee/pedal angle slightly forward, but this may not be bad as the KOPS is quite controversial.

Also, if the knee/pedal is in front of the pedal, is this worse than behind.

All suggestions and insight is helpful.


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## aureliajulia (May 25, 2009)

MGS9500 said:


> I've been through a professional fit and used other calculators. I agree, the one from Competitive Cyclist is a very good one and I appreciate the referral. I entered the numbers and still end up with the same dilemma.
> 
> The Top tube of the bike based on my fit is about 1cm long, but the head tube and the seat tube are fine. So, the question is still, if a bikes reach can be accommodated by a shorter stem and moving the seat forward, is this ok.
> 
> ...


Ask whomever it was that gave you the professional fit.

Try this thread.


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## AJ88V (Nov 14, 2012)

The top tube is probably the most important, and if that is too long, even for the relaxed fit, you will not be happy. Hence your dilemma - good deal or good bike. 

Shortening the stem can be alright sometimes, but can also make the bike twitchy. 

Personally, I'd hold off on the good deal and get the good bike, unless , that is, you can break even on the good deal by selling it if it just doesn't fit you.


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## crewman (Jan 29, 2004)

No matter how good the deal is if it does not fit your body your going to regret the purchase. 

That 57.5 bike is very big and most likely its going cheap because the store cannot off load it. 

Also if you are going to move your saddle forward you no nothing about bike fit. as the saddle set back is one of the most import measurements you never deviate from. 

Also the Dogma2 has the largest head tube of the Dogma generations. 

If it were me I would be doing a "Stack & Reach" measurement of your current ride and checking the figures on Competitive cyclist to compare.


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## cww180 (Aug 31, 2008)

Hello,

I'm 5'5" and was wondering if a 2012 Pinarello Paris 50cm would be a possibility for me?

I currently ride a 50m Cannondale CAAD 10 with a 90mm stem and a 66cm saddle height.

Any help/insight is appreciated. No fitters where I live.


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## aureliajulia (May 25, 2009)

What are the numbers for the CAAD? Especially horizontal top tube, head tube, stack, and reach? (I have a 51.5 2012 Pinarello Quattro, exact same frame shape and geometry as the Paris, and I'm 5'7" with a 73 cm saddle height, 33.3 inch inseam. But since I use a zero-offset seat post for long tibias, my stem length is longer than you would expect, so probably not relevant. Do you have longish femurs?). 

Plus, I ride a size 51 CAADX Cannondale. Though the cyclocross frames are sized different than the usual due to high bottom brackets). The CAADX's are sized more like the CAAD 8's, in that they have relaxed geometry, the CAAD 10's are more aggressive, with shorter head tubes. What year is the CAAD 10?


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## cww180 (Aug 31, 2008)

aureliajulia said:


> What are the numbers for the CAAD? Especially horizontal top tube, head tube, stack, and reach? (I have a 51.5 2012 Pinarello Quattro, exact same frame shape and geometry as the Paris, and I'm 5'7" with a 73 cm saddle height, 33.3 inch inseam. But since I use a zero-offset seat post for long tibias, my stem length is longer than you would expect, so probably not relevant. Do you have longish femurs?).
> 
> Top tube is 525, HT = 11.5, Stack = 523, Reach = 378. I think my femurs are normal-ish.
> 
> Plus, I ride a size 51 CAADX Cannondale. Though the cyclocross frames are sized different than the usual due to high bottom brackets). The CAADX's are sized more like the CAAD 8's, in that they have relaxed geometry, the CAAD 10's are more aggressive, with shorter head tubes. What year is the CAAD 10?


The CAAD 10 is 2012, thanks for your help.


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## aureliajulia (May 25, 2009)

I just checked the numbers against the Paris. They are essentially the same size.

If you look at the link I posted earlier in this thread, it explains how to compare horizontal top tube, Heat Tube Angle, Head tube height, stack,and reach, to determine if the bikes can be set up the same way. Bikes with numbers that are quite different, may actually be set up the same. In this case, the numbers are clearly almost identical. You don't even need to plug the numbers into the formula (link is in post number 6 of this thread):

CAAD 10

52.5 horizontal Top Tube
72.5 HTA
11.5 HT height
52.3 Stack
37.8 Reach

Paris
52.5 HTT
72.4 HTA
12.5 HT
52.5 Stack
37.2 Reach

The CAAD 10 is very slightly more aggressive, with a lower HT (head tube) by just one cm. So, the Paris would probably need one or so less spacers than your CAAD 10. The Paris has a reach that is half a cm shorter, so you may use a slightly longer stem, maybe 95 instead of 90.

Great, great bike!


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## Salsa_Lover (Jul 6, 2008)

That's too big, look for a deal on a smaller one


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## cww180 (Aug 31, 2008)

Ok thanks a lot I was just worried about the stand over room, but at 5'5" I shouldn't worry because unless you have a steep sloping tube there is no stand over!


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## aureliajulia (May 25, 2009)

cww180 said:


> Ok thanks a lot I was just worried about the stand over room, but at 5'5" I shouldn't worry because unless you have a steep sloping tube there is no stand over!


Then check the stand over on both. Just google. I don't really have standover issues with my inseam, and standover doesn't affect overall bike size. But, if the top tube is too high, you will never be comfortable. 

The Paris has a horizontal top tube, it doesn't slope.


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## cww180 (Aug 31, 2008)

Yeah, I tried to google I guess Pinarello doesn't publish the standover height.


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## aureliajulia (May 25, 2009)

cww180 said:


> Yeah, I tried to google I guess Pinarello doesn't publish the standover height.


True. The CAAD 10 is 73.5. Where is the bike you are looking at? Can you call and find out? 

You might also try posting a new thread in this forum, asking if anyone knows the standover height of the 50, and what their inseam is. Do you know your cycling inseam? Have you ever had a professional fitting to find out? Competitive Cyclist gives good directions on how to measure it.

Fit Calculator - Competitive Cyclist


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## cww180 (Aug 31, 2008)

My cycling inseam is 29", I have never had a professional fitting I'm stationed on a military base in Okinawa, Japan and they don't really do that here on the island. 

I have stood over a 2009 Paris 50cm and it a little on the snug side but not sure it would prevent me from riding it. Just not sure if its optimal.


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## aureliajulia (May 25, 2009)

I'm Civil Service on Parris Island. When I was in the MC, was stationed at Iwakuni. Long time ago! 

Does the CAAD 10 fit properly? If so, then no, you can't go smaller, due to the fit of TT, HT, and the others I mentioned. If it's too big or in between, then perhaps you could get away with a size smaller to reduce stand over, but you should really post a dedicated thread and find out if anyone knows the SO for a 50 Paris. Plus, go to the Competive Cyclist fit calculator I posted in the previous thread, and measure inseam, and perhaps everything else, too.


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## cww180 (Aug 31, 2008)

Lol, small world! I'm civil service now as well, I was USMC on Futenma!

I have done the fit thing at Competitive Cyclist. I'll try the dedicated thread and see what turns up, thanks for your help and serving. Furlough sucks!


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## aureliajulia (May 25, 2009)

cww180 said:


> Lol, small world! I'm civil service now as well, I was USMC on Futenma!
> ... Furlough sucks!


Number 1 on the furlough assessment! 

What type of work do you do?


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## cww180 (Aug 31, 2008)

Athletic Director for a fitness center, how about you?


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## aureliajulia (May 25, 2009)

Management Analyst at base environmental. 

We just got a cool new climbing wall at our fitness center. (Well, at the air station fitness center). It's over 2 stories high. Can't wait to try it.

OTOH, it pisses me off that they built a huge, beautiful new fitness center, and we are all on furlough. Different pots of money...whatever. Still rather get paid.  At least I can climb for free.


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## cww180 (Aug 31, 2008)

I hear you, they ask me to do purchase request for hundreds of thousands of dollars while on the other hand they are tell me to go home for 1 day a week and hiring people right and left instead of gapping positions and cutting spending first.


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## aureliajulia (May 25, 2009)

Yup.

Back to the bike. Based on your other thread, you are looking at a lot of sizes. Don't buy too quickly. Also, do you think the CAAD fits perfectly in the cockpit? Do you know if your knees are over the pedal spindle? I have a few more, very good links I can post for you if you are willing to take you time. Hate to see you spend money on a Paris or Dogma that doesn't fit. 

Do you want the links? The reason I'm asking about knees over pedal, is that it can affect what size you need. 

If you do want more, I'll have to get it to you a little later, it will take time to get it together.


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## Cinelli 82220 (Dec 2, 2010)

I'm 5'7" and have a 46.5 sloping Dogma2. Fits perfectly.

I also have a 50 that is definitely too big.


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## antihero77 (Jul 26, 2011)

im 5'9 and ride a 53 fits perect


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## aureliajulia (May 25, 2009)

aureliajulia said:


> Then check the stand over on both. Just google. I don't really have standover issues with my inseam, and standover doesn't affect overall bike size. But, if the top tube is too high, you will never be comfortable.
> 
> The Paris has a horizontal top tube, it doesn't slope.


Edit, I forgot about the Easy fit option, which does have a sloping top tube, but a higher head tube. Since the CAAD has a lower HT than the regular Paris, I assume this is not the geometry you are after, but it could be a good option. Remember that any bike with a higher HT will have a shooter reach for your arms.


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## aureliajulia (May 25, 2009)

Cinelli 82220 said:


> I'm 5'7" and have a 46.5 sloping Dogma2. Fits perfectly.
> 
> I also have a 50 that is definitely too big.


Do you know if the Dogma has a longer tt than the Paris?

And I'm also 5'7", with a long inseam, this should make the 51.5 too big in the cockpit, but as I need a zero offset seat post, which brings me forward about 4-5 cm just so I can get my knees over the pedals, I can use a larger bike than expected. A person with long femurs might need a lot of offset, which pushes their body backwards, hence, a smaller top tube is needed. The first thing I would do is use the plumb bob method, and determine where your knees over the pedals are right now on your CAAD, AND GO FROM THERE.

Sorry about the caps, virtual keyboard.


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## AJ88V (Nov 14, 2012)

Still dialing in my Quattro 51.5 frame. At 5'7", I just reduced the steering stem to a 90 and now want to drop it lower. If I were to do this again, I'd get the 50 cm frame.


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## aureliajulia (May 25, 2009)

AJ88V said:


> Still dialing in my Quattro 51.5 frame. At 5'7", I just reduced the steering stem to a 90 and now want to drop it lower. If I were to do this again, I'd get the 50 cm frame.


What is your inseam? Do you use the offset seatpost that came with it?


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## Spark (Oct 15, 2012)

Please use stack & reach measurements for an accurate idea. Also worth noting the seat post has a large setback and I'm not sure if the Domga 2, 0 setback would fit plus it's very expensive ontop of an already pricey frame.

Hope this helps a bit.


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## cww180 (Aug 31, 2008)

Spark said:


> Please use stack & reach measurements for an accurate idea. Also worth noting the seat post has a large setback and I'm not sure if the Domga 2, 0 setback would fit plus it's very expensive ontop of an already pricey frame.
> 
> Hope this helps a bit.


You mean if I wanted to purchase a zero offset seat post would be expensive? The stack and reach of the 46.5 look like they will fit very nicely. Thanks for the info!


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## Cinelli 82220 (Dec 2, 2010)

Zero offset post for Dogma is around $400.
Maybe other bikes with round posts are cheaper?


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## AJ88V (Nov 14, 2012)

aureliajulia said:


> What is your inseam? Do you use the offset seatpost that came with it?


Inseam is pretty short at 29". I've been thinking of switching to a zero offset seatpost, but my knee position is pretty good right now.


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## aureliajulia (May 25, 2009)

AJ88V said:


> Inseam is pretty short at 29". I've been thinking of switching to a zero offset seatpost, but my knee position is pretty good right now.


That's what I was getting at. Too bad. You must have long femurs? Is there any room in you cleat adjustment to move them forward? That would move the knees back if the saddle were more forward. And if not a zero-offset, would it work to get a seat post that is less offset than the one you have now, but still does have some offset?

Have you had a good fitting? Maybe someone could start over from back to front, and find a position that works. When I do endless tweaking myself, I end up with something that is quite off all around. Even my fitter goes to someone else to have his done.


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## AJ88V (Nov 14, 2012)

aureliajulia said:


> That's what I was getting at. Too bad. You must have long femurs? Is there any room in you cleat adjustment to move them forward? That would move the knees back if the saddle were more forward. And if not a zero-offset, would it work to get a seat post that is less offset than the one you have now, but still does have some offset?
> 
> Have you had a good fitting? Maybe someone could start over from back to front, and find a position that works. When I do endless tweaking myself, I end up with something that is quite off all around. Even my fitter goes to someone else to have his done.


Thanks, aureliajulia (almost abbreviated that as "AJ" but that's already mine!).

I've been toying with getting a good fitting. Someone recommended ("raved about") a fitter locally and even the price isn't bad ($150), but the shop itself is snooty/expensive and I like to do my own work (and buy my own parts). Might end up paying for a fitting if my next round of adjustment doesn't pay off. There are quite a few good vids on youtube that I've discovered recently too. - Cheers, (the other) AJ


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