# The Real Value of Pinarello?



## knightev (Sep 22, 2011)

alright everyone... new guy to road biking, been a mid-distance (now slowly converting to distance) runner my whole life, just moved to paris for school, brought over my tricross to use for commuting (which is awesome) but want to get a nice carbon road bike.

so, i went to my LBS here in paris, asked about a couple models, particularly Pinarello FP2 as Pinarello (not necessarily the FP2) is the brand that a LBS guy back in my hometown in the states said he dreamed of getting... a bit more background-- i have been reading bunches and bunches about all sorts of bikes, and i have concluded that Pinarello is pretty legit.

to continue, my LBS here in Paris is not my LBS back in the states (of course). i never feel welcome in there and they always seem to hustle me out, even when i was talking to them about possibly dropping a couple thousand euros, so i could never really get a good discussion of the bikes going. bummer!

to wrap this up, the guy helping me (unfortunately a bit of a sourpuss) told me that Pinarello wasn't worth the money, that it was just the pretty colors (a direct quote, albeit translated) and the aesthetic that made them different........... he directed my toward the Scott CR1 line of bikes, which is all well and good, but after all i'd read about Pinarello, and the recommendations of my LBS back in the states, i couldn't help but ask:

what is the real value of a Pinarello???


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## arndogg (May 13, 2009)

will vary from person to person, locale to locale. you've already experienced it...


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## knightev (Sep 22, 2011)

arndogg said:


> will vary from person to person, locale to locale. you've already experienced it...


very true... the funny (strange) thing was, when i asked about the other bikes in the shop, whether it was Ridley or Eddy Merckx (sp?) or Look, etc... he would just say, "No, more expensive" even though they were in the same price range as what we were looking at with the CR1 Pro. apparently, he was just a Scott man... ?


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## arndogg (May 13, 2009)

I personally like pinarellos. I was considering one, but I ended up with a wilier izoard when I was in the market a 4 years ago. One of the things that drew me to those 2 brands is that you won't see the same bike everytime you head out on your ride, at least not where I ride. Pluse I bought my wilier from Europe, before they had a distributor here in the US.
Enjoy your bike, whichever one you end up with. Don't let other people, especially LBS sales folks steer you away, unless their reasoning is that the geo won't fit you or your style of riding.


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## knightev (Sep 22, 2011)

yeah i am very willing to listen and learn about all this stuff, but he really didn't justify beyond saying Pinarello was only for its pretty colors... :/ he did, however, say that due to my height (6 feet, not abnormally tall) Scott would fit better because their bikes are made in big sizes, but i know Pinarello makes bikes big enough for me. i've done the research! i honestly think they just want to clear out their Scotts... they have a bunch.


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## orange_julius (Jan 24, 2003)

knightev said:


> yeah i am very willing to listen and learn about all this stuff, but he really didn't justify beyond saying Pinarello was only for its pretty colors... :/ he did, however, say that due to my height (6 feet, not abnormally tall) Scott would fit better because their bikes are made in big sizes, but i know Pinarello makes bikes big enough for me. i've done the research! i honestly think they just want to clear out their Scotts... they have a bunch.


Man, if I were you I'd go to a different shop. They seem very opinionated, not exactly the trait you want in an LBS. Surely there are many others in your part of Paris, no?


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## knightev (Sep 22, 2011)

yeah, i've been researching other shops. i am going to check them out this weekend, so hopefully they are a bit less sour... we will see. i think some of it is just cultural-- shopkeepers here tend to be less interested in being friendly than in the states, less likely to go out of their way, etc... different attitude. or maybe it IS just that shop. i will find out soon enough!


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## takl23 (Jul 22, 2007)

Time to look elsewhere. Bon chance!


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## Dajianshan (Jul 15, 2007)

The value is up to the rider. Pinarello makes some great bikes. The actual cost is somewhere around $500-700.


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## Cinelli 82220 (Dec 2, 2010)

Is the Time showroom still there? Go have a look at their bikes, and it's a showroom only-no sales-so there is no pressure to buy. IIRC it was right by the Place de la Concorde.

If you are buying a high-end bike go to as many shops and ride as many different bikes as you can. Everyone is different, just like riders.

It's normal to feel unwelcome in France. Especially in Paris, where they consider themselves the centre of world culture and sophistication, and anyone from overseas is boorish. Kind of the way NYC residents think anyone from Paramus is a hick. It's not because you are foreign, it just seems to be their nature, it is fashionable to be blase or indifferent about everything.


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## Camilo (Jun 23, 2007)

Begs the question - what are the price comparisons between the Scott and the Pinerello in question? What do they have in terms of component group, wheels and other major parts (stem, bars, seatpost)?

Both are excellent bikes. The Scott may indeed be a better value, or maybe not, how could we know without knowing exactly what you're comparing.

All that said, if you are dreaming of a Pinerello and can afford it, that's what you'll be happy with (assuming both could be made to fit properly).

If it were me, I'd be inclined to get a zoot French brand if I were in France, just because.


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## Ventruck (Mar 9, 2009)

It doesn't sound like there's anything that actually compels you to get a Pinarello, just what "he/she/they said". Your post draws concern about how "legit" the brand is and there's no indication of personal lust regardless.

End of the day, it's a bike. They come in different shapes, sizes, and prices; best fitting one matters, if you plan to ride it.


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## knightev (Sep 22, 2011)

let's see... i can't remember all the specs, but here is what i do remember

2011 scott CR1 team - shimano 105 triple, mavic aksium wheels - $2,280 (1,700 euros)
2010 pinarello FP2 - campy veloce, most wildcat wheels - $2,712 (2,000 euros)
2011 scott CR1 team - shimano Ultegra triple, mavic ksyrium wheels - $3,227 (2,380 euros)

and i will admit to some personal lust after pinarello-- from what i've read, from the beautiful bikes they make (i went to the salon du cycle in paris a couple weeks ago... their 2012 line is rather gorgeous), and from what people have said. i wouldn't consider myself in the market for anything too high end...

i've also been looking at the zoot french brands... just because.  that is actually one reason i am leaning towards european bikes is because not many people back home will have them! ha!

but, really, what it comes down to is ride, which is why this saturday i am going to see if i can get some test rides in. 

and maybe try and find that Time showroom! i have not ever seen it, but i might not be looking in the right place...


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## maximum7 (Apr 24, 2008)

I'll tell you my Pin story. 
When I first got in to cycling I really wanted a Pinarello. Bad! (That was after I really wanted a Bianchi bad.) 
I found a shop 3 hours from me that had a closeout on a Pin F3:13. Predecessor to the FP3. I drove up, and took it out for a test ride. The ride was magical. Smooth, solid. Turns out though, that Pinarellos have really long top tubes with short head tubes and the bike didn't fit. I was crushed. The guys at the shop were great though and they said try this Scott CR1 Pro. I rode it. It felt light, quick and snappy, but rode pretty harsh. (this was in '08 before they changed them). Then they said try this Look 555. I had heard of Look, but that was about it. Turns out the Look was a mix of the 2. Almost as smooth as the Pin, but still snappy and quick like the Scott. Plus it fit. 
I was still upset that I the Pin was out for me, and I really liked the Look. I went to grab a bite as I had test rode for a couple hours. When I came back they the Look on a stand, pedals on and a Look bottle cage. They knew I was going to get it. The guys at the shop were amazing. They wanted me to try as many bikes as I had time for. They adjusted each one before I rode it, and had water for me when I came back.

My point. You never know what might be the best bike for you. Especially since your new to riding. 
Ride everything you can. Figure out what fits you physically and your riding style. 

My friend ended up going to the shop and bought that Pin. It fit him. I got to ride it a few times and while it was a great bike, it wasn't my Look. I did end up riding an FP5, FP3 as well. Great bikes, but heavy in their price range. My buddy sold his Pin after test riding a Look 566. 

Please note, I'm not pushing Look, and not dogging Pinarello. I just want you to broaden your choices.

Pinarello makes 2 bikes. The Prince and the Dogma. Same geometry, The rest of their bikes are just lesser grades of carbon of the same bike.


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## ultraman6970 (Aug 1, 2010)

Paris?? man, 1st of all change the american flag in your backpack for something else, canadian could help. I felt like you in the only cycling store i visit in paris, the suckers are basically taking outta of the door, probably outside of paris is different. Is your french good? mine is bad and I screw up because asked stuff in english too so the 1st impression was f.. bad. Paris is an awesome city but sucks at the same time because u feel what u felt in some stores. Parisian mentality apparently  

The other thing is, why pinarello when u can get awesome french stuff out there?? LOOK, Cyfac for example??


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## knightev (Sep 22, 2011)

it is funny that you both mentioned look-- one of the bikes i am considering after researching a bunch is actually the Look 566. it has a good midrange price for good components from a good company... 

i am not familiar with cyfac, but i will check it out... time is also one that i have been investigating, but those suckers are expensive.

my french is pretty good. i don't know if it is because i am american, i doubt it, but, who knows. parisian mentality is probably the biggest thing. all part of the experience, though... from what i've learned from other people and what i have read, it sometimes takes a looooong time to get into the good graces of a parisian shop.


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## maxxevv (Jan 18, 2009)

Since you're in Paris or France for that matter, you should check if you can get good value for the French bikes. The French make some really sweet bikes. To name a few:

Look: 585, 585 Ultra, 586, 595, 595 Ultra and 695, 695 SR. The 555, 566 are also very good bikes. 

Cyfac: Gothica, Absolut

Time : VXRS etc, etc.. 

They are built in the same vein and style of riding as the more high-brow Italian marques like Colnago and Pinarello. Generally great handling without too much of a compromise on comfort and all day riding intents. 

In fact dollar for dollar, they make 'better value' top-end bikes than most italian brands. You should check around for shops which carry them. As the Look 585 and 595 are already discontinued, perhaps you can find come bargains on closeout items. Same as for the Time bikes. 

As for Scott, they probably get a better margin or commission from selling them, hence pushing them. In my opinion, they are great for racing, and racing ONLY... not something I would enjoy for a weekly all day riding bike ... (That was my pre '08 experience on the CR1, wonder if they have improved since ...?)


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## knightev (Sep 22, 2011)

i've got a couple shops that sell Look, Time and Lapierre on my list of places to visit.

the problem with Look and Time is that their low-end is still pretty pricy, from what i;ve seen. with the exception of the 566, set up at its entry level components, that is.

from what i've read about the CR1, they seem to have relaxed the geometry a bit to make them more all-day friendly.

Cyfac, i know nothing about...


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## terbennett (Apr 1, 2006)

Funny you say that. Reading through this thread, I was thinking that Time is a bit more expensive for even lower end stuff- which really isn't low end by most standards. Still, they have always been expensive even for what they offer. Can you even touch a Time in the price range you're looking at? I'm think that the LBS you went to is trying to sell Scotts. Nothing wrong with that, but downplaying other brands is just bad business and downplaying other brands that you carry is just stupid.


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## maxxevv (Jan 18, 2009)

Guys, please read my post in the correct context of things : 
"...dollar for dollar, they make 'better value' top-end bikes than most italian brands. " 

Note the crucial..." 'better value' top-end bikes " portion.


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## vladvm (May 4, 2010)

if it makes you happy buy it, the high value does not equate to high price. 

try the upainted ones first and see if you like the ride then decide if you'll get real value with the painted ones.


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## robdamanii (Feb 13, 2006)

vladvm said:


> if it makes you happy buy it, the high value does not equate to high price.
> 
> try the upainted ones first and see if you like the ride then decide if you'll get real value with the painted ones.


That would be acceptable IF they were the same frame, which they clearly are not.

I knew the heralds of Chinese ripoff frames would show up sooner or later.

OP:

The real value of a bike is not what the market will bear, but is what YOU value it as. 

If it's the bike you get out and ride every day, that makes you want to ride more and get stronger, then it's priceless.

If it sits in your garage and you ride it once a month, it's worthless.

IME.


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## qatarbhoy (Aug 17, 2009)

I don't get the lust for Pinarellos. I find their frames and paint leave me unmoved.  ... Although if Team Sky have any spare, I'll look after one.


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## knightev (Sep 22, 2011)

couldn't wait for the weekend, so i hit up some other LBS in my area (and one not in my area at all, but still an LBS... if that makes sense)

it seems that the sour, uninviting mood IS just that other shop right by my place. real bummer, as they specialize in all sorts of good stuff (Look, Scott, Pinarello, Merckx, Time, Ridley....) but, not so bad, as i find another shop right down the street that has absolutely great people there. the dude who talked to me actually talked to me. a conversation. incredible. this one specializes in Lapierre, Specialized, Time, Look, and BMC.... we talked a lot about the Specialized Roubaix. i have always had a thing for Specialized.

anyway, went to another one that had all Italian makes (Bianchi, Colnago, Pinarello)... the man of advanced years there also talked to me. very cool.

except, something that every bike shop told me today was that it is impossible to take them out for a test ride. ,,.... ,,, !

so that is a real drag.

the Specialized shop allows people to get on the stationary thing and at least sit on the bike and make adjustments, etc... but that's it.

how are you supposed to buy a bike based off of that?


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## qatarbhoy (Aug 17, 2009)

Caress them lovingly and see which one responds to your touch. It's France, dude.


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## PlatyPius (Feb 1, 2009)

knightev said:


> couldn't wait for the weekend, so i hit up some other LBS in my area (and one not in my area at all, but still an LBS... if that makes sense)
> 
> it seems that the sour, uninviting mood IS just that other shop right by my place. real bummer, as they specialize in all sorts of good stuff (Look, Scott, Pinarello, Merckx, Time, Ridley....) but, not so bad, as i find another shop right down the street that has absolutely great people there. the dude who talked to me actually talked to me. a conversation. incredible. this one specializes in Lapierre, Specialized, Time, Look, and BMC.... we talked a lot about the Specialized Roubaix. i have always had a thing for Specialized.
> 
> ...


The same way people buy custom bikes. The people dropping serious cash on a bike don't get to test ride them first...

Go to the Loire Valley and talk to the guys at Cyfac; you can get a full custom for the cost of most Pinarellos. Or look at TIME. Both of those are actually made in France.


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## DiegoMontoya (Apr 11, 2010)

Cinelli 82220 said:


> Is the Time showroom still there? Go have a look at their bikes, and it's a showroom only-no sales-so there is no pressure to buy. IIRC it was right by the Place de la Concorde.


I think it's on the Avenue de la Grande Armee.


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## DiegoMontoya (Apr 11, 2010)

PlatyPius said:


> Go to the Loire Valley and talk to the guys at Cyfac; you can get a full custom for the cost of most Pinarellos. Or look at TIME. Both of those are actually made in France.


This. +10000.


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## ftssjk (Sep 16, 2011)

well think about it this way.

a few LBS wouldn't care if it's good value or not, if you wanted to buy it, they'd try and sell it to you.

as for a pinarello, i'd never buy one.
I would buy a Chinarello


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## Hooben (Aug 22, 2004)

Around here, Pinarello's are the stuff of legends. I assume you are in Paris France and not Paris Texas. If so, it would be smart to make you realize that many people love bicycles from far off places. There is a strange draw some British people have with Cannondale. Round here we value Willier, Pinarello, and European brands. Go with what you want, not what your LBS wants.


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## knightev (Sep 22, 2011)

ha! that will have to be the test, unfortunately. :/ and i just now noticed your "flâneur" tag. so glad to know there are those who still flane about.


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## knightev (Sep 22, 2011)

Hooben said:


> Around here, Pinarello's are the stuff of legends. I assume you are in Paris France and not Paris Texas. If so, it would be smart to make you realize that many people love bicycles from far off places. There is a strange draw some British people have with Cannondale. Round here we value Willier, Pinarello, and European brands. Go with what you want, not what your LBS wants.


words of wisdom, indeed. i want something that will please me... whether it be pinarello, look, lapierre.... but i am definitely leaning towards foreign.

hopefully the new place with the dude who actually talks to me can get me a LOOK 566 to caress. the quest for the Pinarello continues. it is pretty hard, actually, to find a pina in Paris, or at least the FP2 or FPDue that i am looking for. the search goes ever on and on.

[EDIT] and yes, Paris, France.  though i can imagine the charm of Paris, Texas.


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## oldcannondale (Jul 23, 2011)

*What is the real value of a Pinarello?*



knightev said:


> alright everyone... new guy to road biking, been a mid-distance (now slowly converting to distance) runner my whole life, just moved to paris for school, brought over my tricross to use for commuting (which is awesome) but want to get a nice carbon road bike.
> 
> so, i went to my LBS here in paris, asked about a couple models, particularly Pinarello FP2 as Pinarello (not necessarily the FP2) is the brand that a LBS guy back in my hometown in the states said he dreamed of getting... a bit more background-- i have been reading bunches and bunches about all sorts of bikes, and i have concluded that Pinarello is pretty legit.
> 
> ...


Hi guys, just my two cents, back to the ops original question. I absolutely love Pinarello's, most likely a transferance of my Ducati love. Having said that a bicycle is an emotional but pragmatic article. I ended up riding an 04 gixxer 1000 that day to day was a beautifull bike, but not a ducati!.


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## qatarbhoy (Aug 17, 2009)

knightev said:


> ha! that will have to be the test, unfortunately. :/ and i just now noticed your "flâneur" tag. so glad to know there are those who still flane about.


Yes, but it's hard to find the time between one's commitments as a dilettante. :thumbsup:


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## Special Eyes (Feb 2, 2011)

Take a weekender to Italy and see what THEY have to say about the Pino's. You might come back with one.....


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## terry b (Jan 29, 2004)

I think in this day and age when many frames are coming out of the same outsourced manufacturers, the true value of the brand is slowly being minimized. "Legendary" bikes like Pinarello were coveted because they came out of little shops in small town Italy where the welders sat on wooden buckets out back, cigarette dangling on their lips and a black beret on their heads, building some frame that was going to be ridden by local boy Fabio Punchiertelli in the upcoming Giro. Their value was due to their exclusivity, their palmares and their craftsmanship.

Now they get stamped out in the same place as Ridleys and Scotts and Giants and a host of others, known and not so well known. Today it all boils down to the looks and what's left of their legend. 

So the value is how much they shrink your wallet and how hard they pull your heartstrings because they pretty much all ride the same.


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## ciclisto (Nov 8, 2005)

get a Trek madone a real good frame and then you can sell it to the french as an exotic.


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## terbennett (Apr 1, 2006)

maxxevv said:


> Guys, please read my post in the correct context of things :
> "...dollar for dollar, they make 'better value' top-end bikes than most italian brands. "
> Note the crucial..." 'better value' top-end bikes " portion.


I did but I don't see it. Time is expensive and looking at their framesets, they cost as much as Pinarello and Colnago. In fact, they have at least two framesets, that I saw, that cost more than the Pinarello and Colnago's top framesets.


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## maximum7 (Apr 24, 2008)

DiegoMontoya said:


> This. +10000.


Actually this *MINUS* 1

He's looking a a FP2 or the new Duo. 
A Scott CR1 
and hopefully a Look 566.

All bike that are nowhere near even an entry level TIME or Cyfac. 




> I think in this day and age when many frames are coming out of the same outsourced manufacturers, the true value of the brand is slowly being minimized. "Legendary" bikes like Pinarello were coveted because they came out of little shops in small town Italy where the welders sat on wooden buckets out back, cigarette dangling on their lips and a black beret on their heads, building some frame that was going to be ridden by local boy Fabio Punchiertelli in the upcoming Giro. Their value was due to their exclusivity, their palmares and their craftsmanship.
> 
> Now they get stamped out in the same place as Ridleys and Scotts and Giants and a host of others, known and not so well known. Today it all boils down to the looks and what's left of their legend.
> 
> ...


I disagree.

Things evolve and processes change. Just because something isn't made in the basement of some guys house while smoking, has nothing to do with "losing soul".

They still spend hours, and in some cases years, designing these bikes. Sure it's in front of a computer, but who cares. Their hands are using different tools, but they're still using their minds. They sure as hell just don't call China up and say, "Send us over some of them plastic frames that you got".
Have you lost your value because you wrote your opinion on the computer instead of the old fashion way by mailing in something that you wrote with paper and a pen while smoking? I don't think you have.

Pinarello and TIME and LOOK are still very coveted bikes where I live.


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## Bill2 (Oct 14, 2007)

arndogg said:


> I personally like pinarellos. I was considering one, but I ended up with a wilier izoard when I was in the market a 4 years ago. One of the things that drew me to those 2 brands is that you won't see the same bike everytime you head out on your ride, at least not where I ride.


True, it varies with location. Here (not far from Treviso) every other bike I see is Pinarello. Refreshing to see a Colnago, for example, now and then.


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## bouge-bouge (Aug 10, 2004)

You can learn more about Cyfac here: Expertly crafted bicycle frames. Carbon fiber, aluminum, steel and titanium custom framesets made in France | Cyfac and Cyfac | Le Blog - Cyfac's Le Blog

We offer the frames through our network of dealers in the US and you can also go to France and visit the factory/pick up a bike there.


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## knightev (Sep 22, 2011)

i think i might have to take a trip to the Loire and check out the Cyfac stuff, seeing as it is so close to paris... i have been reading up on them and i like what i see so far.

maybe a trip to italy, too, but that will take a bit more planning...

i read up on the Wilier Izoard, too, and that got some great reviews, plus it is more affordable than the Pina and Look... 

the problem with Cyfac, i think, is that i am not looking to drop a bunch of cash... i was looking at entry level Pinarellos, so my price range might not transfer very well to Cyfac. we will see...

in the meantime, i am having a great time finding cycling shops in paris! and i will go try and find the Time showroom, diego, thanks!

e


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## bouge-bouge (Aug 10, 2004)

There's a common misconception that we are only super expensive. While we do have some very expensive full-custom, full-carbon framesets, we also offer our premium standard products at very accessible prices (starting at $1500 for the frameset). And, even our custom pricing starts just above $2,000 for alloy or steel with carbon fork and headset so you can have a complete custom bike for something around $3200-$3500 with a decent build kit. Yes, it's steel or alloy but it's custom, made just for the individual client, and not a mass-produced "carbon" bike coming from China that is sold for about the same price but with so much less money put into the product itself. 

The real problem with Cyfac is that we (and others like us) offer a product with a higher intrinsic value because of who is making it, how it's made and that more money is spent on the substance. This message is drowned out by the big brands who invest in the marketing and style over the actual frame that a customer will be riding. Personally, i'd feel cheated if I bought a $2k, $3k, or even higher priced frame that cost something like $100-300 to make in China. I can assure you that when you buy a Cyfac, there's more money spent on the production of that bike than anything else!

And, we'd love to have you down for a visit!!! Please let me know if I can help you to arrange that.


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## PlatyPius (Feb 1, 2009)

bouge-bouge said:


> There's a common misconception that we are only super expensive. While we do have some very expensive full-custom, full-carbon framesets, we also offer our premium standard products at very accessible prices (*starting at $1500 for the frameset*). And, even our custom pricing starts just above $2,000 for alloy or steel with carbon fork and headset so you can have a complete custom bike for something around $3200-$3500 with a decent build kit. Yes, it's steel or alloy but it's custom, made just for the individual client, and not a mass-produced "carbon" bike coming from China that is sold for about the same price but with so much less money put into the product itself.
> 
> The real problem with Cyfac is that we (and others like us) offer a product with a higher intrinsic value because of who is making it, how it's made and that more money is spent on the substance. This message is drowned out by the big brands who invest in the marketing and style over the actual frame that a customer will be riding. Personally, i'd feel cheated if I bought a $2k, $3k, or even higher priced frame that cost something like $100-300 to make in China. I can assure you that when you buy a Cyfac, there's more money spent on the production of that bike than anything else!
> 
> And, we'd love to have you down for a visit!!! Please let me know if I can help you to arrange that.



And that $1500 aluminum frameset rides better than many carbon frames that I've ridden...


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## bouge-bouge (Aug 10, 2004)

Here are a couple of shots of our $2300 custom steel frameset complete with carbon and headset. This is made just for the client, will withstand just about anything you can throw at it, and is going to outride something mass-produced at this price level. We built a set of these for a tour company that takes clients out on pretty hard core riding adventures over the pavé of Northern France/Belgium to follow Paris-Roubaix and the Tour of Flanders routes.

We can never argue with one's budget. Everyone has different means and considerations on how much they want to spend on their bike. We are big advocates of paying for true value and getting a product that meets the promises the company makes. We hold ourselves to that when we start a project for someone.


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## aclinjury (Sep 12, 2011)

bouge-bouge said:


> There's a common misconception that we are only super expensive. While we do have some very expensive full-custom, full-carbon framesets, we also offer our premium standard products at very accessible prices (starting at $1500 for the frameset). And, even our custom pricing starts just above $2,000 for alloy or steel with carbon fork and headset so you can have a complete custom bike for something around $3200-$3500 with a decent build kit. Yes, it's steel or alloy but it's custom, made just for the individual client, and not a mass-produced "carbon" bike coming from China that is sold for about the same price but with so much less money put into the product itself.
> 
> The real problem with Cyfac is that we (and others like us) offer a product with a higher intrinsic value because of who is making it, how it's made and that more money is spent on the substance. This message is drowned out by the big brands who invest in the marketing and style over the actual frame that a customer will be riding. Personally, i'd feel cheated if I bought a $2k, $3k, or even higher priced frame that cost something like $100-300 to make in China. I can assure you that when you buy a Cyfac, there's more money spent on the production of that bike than anything else!
> 
> And, we'd love to have you down for a visit!!! Please let me know if I can help you to arrange that.


Hmm I wonder if it would be cheaper if I had a friend in France buy a Cyfac frame and ship it to the US, or cheaper to buy it in the US?


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## knightev (Sep 22, 2011)

aclinjury said:


> Hmm I wonder if it would be cheaper if I had a friend in France buy a Cyfac frame and ship it to the US, or cheaper to buy it in the US?


my only warning is this: customs might bend you over, i.e. find out what's in the box and charge you an exorbitant fee. they tried to make me pay 400 euros for my bike that i mailed over to france... i had to explain to them that it was a used bike, not new. had it been new, i would have had to pay. not sure if it would be the same coming into the US, but... just a warning.


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## bouge-bouge (Aug 10, 2004)

It's actually best to buy it from a dealer in the States if you live in the States. Our US distributor (veloeuropa imports VeloEuropa - Cyfac Bicycles) absorbs all of the currency risk, covers customs, gets the best shipping rates, and keeps the pricing at the proper level so you don't get it any cheaper by going to the source. In fact, even in France, we route the sale through the client's local Cyfac dealer and don't sell "out of the back of the factory" or anything sordid like that. If you visit, the benefit is that you get to see the factory, have some great food, and get in some nice riding if you have the time!


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## Peanya (Jun 12, 2008)

I say go back to that shop that's close by, since they have the brands you want. Ask to speak to the owner or manager at least. Explain your frustration. Maybe they're treating you the way they are because you're not from there. Maybe they're pre-qualifying you. It's bad business to run a shop the way they do, but it happens more often than not. Even from person to person in the same shop. If they still give you a hard time, then ask if they'd rather you go buy the same model you want elsewhere.


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## terbennett (Apr 1, 2006)

bouge-bouge said:


> Here are a couple of shots of our $2300 custom steel frameset complete with carbon and headset. This is made just for the client, will withstand just about anything you can throw at it, and is going to outride something mass-produced at this price level. We built a set of these for a tour company that takes clients out on pretty hard core riding adventures over the pavé of Northern France/Belgium to follow Paris-Roubaix and the Tour of Flanders routes.
> 
> We can never argue with one's budget. Everyone has different means and considerations on how much they want to spend on their bike. We are big advocates of paying for true value and getting a product that meets the promises the company makes. We hold ourselves to that when we start a project for someone.


That frame is gorgeous!! Not to be a weight weenie, but how much does it weigh?


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## bouge-bouge (Aug 10, 2004)

The Cyfac Zona is about 1400 grams. It's a much more rugged tubeset and is great for what pavé can dish out. It's not uber-light but I've had built bikes in the 16lb range with an ultegra or chorus level build. The Spirit steel is lighter. This complete bike was 15.5 lbs in a size 54cm +/- and a LOT of paint.


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## GirchyGirchy (Feb 12, 2004)

Cinelli 82220 said:


> It's normal to feel unwelcome in France. Especially in Paris, where they consider themselves the centre of world culture and sophistication, and anyone from overseas is boorish. Kind of the way NYC residents think anyone from Paramus is a hick. It's not because you are foreign, it just seems to be their nature, it is fashionable to be blase or indifferent about everything.


Lol! I've been to both places and couldn't agree less.

IMO observations such as the one I've quoted tend to say more about the speaker than the countries.


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## bouge-bouge (Aug 10, 2004)

GirchyGirchy said:


> Lol! I've been to both places and couldn't agree less.
> 
> IMO observations such as the one I've quoted tend to say more about the speaker than the countries.


Right you are. I can attest to the response that foreign Cyfac customers have had when they've visited our modest workshop in the Loire Valley...To a person, they've been overwhelmed by the warm welcome, engagement, and positive attention paid to them by Cyfac staff and personnel as well as the local owners and operators of the restaurants and hotels/b&b's who host our visitors.

The little details can make the largest impact -- I know that visitors have been amazed to see us walk through the workshop each morning upon arrival to shake hands with the entire staff and offer a greeting for the day. And, the 10am coffee break is an opportunity to connect on a human level, discuss the various projects in the workshop, and simply find a certain community around our daily work. I'd invite anyone to come visit us and see for themselves!


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## knightev (Sep 22, 2011)

bouge-bouge said:


> The Cyfac Zona is about 1400 grams. It's a much more rugged tubeset and is great for what pavé can dish out. It's not uber-light but I've had built bikes in the 16lb range with an ultegra or chorus level build. The Spirit steel is lighter. This complete bike was 15.5 lbs in a size 54cm +/- and a LOT of paint.


beautiful bike.


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