# Just my thought on Colnago.



## nicensleazy (Aug 3, 2008)

Before I start this thread, I just want to make it clear that I'm extremely passionate about Colnago and the cycle frames they make. Perhaps if I wasn't passionate about Colnago, then I wouldn't post this thread. However, I would class myself as a realist and just not blinkered.

The way I see it, Colnago need to improve their marketing of the brand and the frames they produce. For example, since the launch of the EPS the articles and reviews have been few and far between and most are just down right poor! Why? Take the EPS review on the new Colnago cycle channel, probably one of the worst articles I have come across on a top pro frame. Just no indepth information and not informative. Looks like the info has been down loaded from the Colnago home page. However, take into consideration the EPS review on Colnago.cc, they are worlds apart. At the recent London bike show, the Colnago stand was pretty poor. At the back of the hall stuck away in a corner. Apparently, Alexandro Colnago was in attendance but I didn't see him on the stand meeting and greeting the customers/punters. Apparently he left quite early to return to Italy. My personal feelings are, Mr Colnago is now getting on in years, however and sadly, there is no one else to fill this great masters shoes! Alexandro is no doubt a really nice guy, but he comes across as a young naive school boy and not the possible future statesman of this great frame maker. Personality is extremely important, we all love Mr Colnago. Sadly, the EPS has been out for a little while now, but the whole press launch/spalsh has been pretty crap!

Now, going back to the London bike show for the moment. Pinarello had a fantastic centre stage stand. It looked lovely. Mr Pinarello in his desighner jacket was meeting and greeting potential customer and members of the press. Like it or not, Pinarello have their marketing Campaign off to a fine art. I was quite impressed. Sadly, the Colnago stand or presence wasn't in the same league. The history of Colnago speaks volumes and the feelings and emotions Colnago evoke are superb. This needs to be capitalized on to project the company into the future. Colnago need to think long and hard about this. In this day and age, no one can afford to rest on their laurels. I do hope with Colnago getting back into the 2010 pro Tour de France, this will help the company establish itself where it belongs.


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## JeremyP (Apr 30, 2006)

Very much agreed. When you sell every bike that moves out of Cambiago, it is easy to lose focus. Which is why the shift in focus to the CX1, CLX-v2, and the list of inexpensive Asian sloping monocoques ala Pinarello. 

It's also hard for the novice to appreciate the ride qualities and construction of a lugged EP/EPS frameset over a monocoque i.e. CX1. Much like the trend of manufacturers increasing head tube length, marketed as 'improving front end stiffness', but really to satisfy the growing market of the poorly fitted with no core strength. This rant another time...


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## Gnarly 928 (Nov 19, 2005)

JeremyP said:


> Which is why the shift in focus to the CX1, CLX-v2, and the list of inexpensive Asian sloping monocoques ala Pinarello.
> 
> It's also hard for the novice to appreciate the ride qualities and construction of a lugged EP/EPS frameset over a monocoque i.e. CX1. Much like the trend of manufacturers increasing head tube length, marketed as 'improving front end stiffness', but really to satisfy the growing market of the poorly fitted with no core strength. This rant another time...


 Well I'm not really a novice but tell me about appreciating the EP/EPS lugged-tube way of building bikes. I am curious. What is it that makes these older techniques of frame building hold their appeal for some bike fans?

Not disrespecting the high end lugged Colnago frames here..They are very fine bikes. But the lugged tube method of frame building is really more suited to other materials, isn't it? Other than to a total brand fanatic, it's getting harder to sell one of the most expensive production frames out there, but still built with lug and tube construction.

Most bicycle builders have acknowledged that there are better ways to take advantage of the new frame materials. They have stopped producing carbon 'tubes' They've began building a bike frame as a total structure since carbon has allowed them to move beyond a "Tinker-toy" method of sticking the frame together.

I have fairly recently traded away a few high end tube and lug carbon frames for monocoque frames. Ridden them all back to back. Usually, the change from lugs to molded frame has been for the better. Significantly better. Look, Time and Colnago are some of the 'luggers' I traded off. For a Ridley Noah and a CX-1 right now.

As for marketing the Colnago brand: I'm sorry, but old-style building of very expensive frames using new-style materials....that's a hard sell...unless I've been missing something recently... Until the CX-1 came along recently, I pretty much ignored the Colnago brand for my uses as a recreational racer.. Now that they've decided to try to design Colnagos a little more '2000' but still incorporate the Colnago finish, integrity and legendary handling..I think they'll gain back a fair share of the market...They got me, for one, a guy who doesn't mind spending some cash for the good stuff, if it works the best.

I am not a 'brand-fanatic' (as you can probably tell) but I think the CX-1 I have presently as my race bike is one of the best performing and nicest riding bikes I've owned. Would an EP-S work as well? Maybe, but guy's I respect on my team prefer the CX-I and have 'returned to the brand', racing the CX-l frames successfully last season.


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## JeremyP (Apr 30, 2006)

CX1 is a great bike, much like the TCR Advanced SL. For me personally, I just am into traditional geometry. Yes, the EP/EPS will not feel as quick out of the box as a well designed monocoque, it will not be as light, but for me, they are one of the most stable and confidence inspiring bicycles I've ridden. I'm also a big fan of non oversized tubing, so prefer the EP over the EPS. Also prefer external headsets. The EP/EPS to me rides solid, the feeling you get when you ride a steel Pegoretti, without the resonance some of the newer thin walled super light monocoques offer. To compare the ride to a Ridley, the EPS would be close to the Excalibur, but less bone jarring, a touch less dead. 

Some say it's an acquired taste. I like my bikes to look timeless and I think the 'luggers' especially Colnago do a great job. The internal tubing is also one of the cleanest out there, something I appreciate.

With lugs you can get custom geometry i.e. Colnago/Parlee. If I had to have one bike, I'd choose a heavier/solid/stable frame i.e Colnago EP/Parlee Z1 with a set of Edge 1.25 to get to 6.8kg than say a Parlee Z4 with a set of Hyperons.


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## mtbbmet (Apr 2, 2005)

I think that right now you don't hear alot about the EPS because Colnago is more focused on pushing the CX1, CLX2.0, and the Ace. This probably has alot to do with the size of margins that they are making on the Asian made frames vs the EPS and C50 which likely cost substantially more to produce. The Colnago sponsored Italian continental team will all be riding CX1's, and I'm sure most of the BBox guys will prefer the CX1 as well. I think that Colnago is activly trying to steer buyers in that direction.


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## Gnarly 928 (Nov 19, 2005)

JeremyP said:


> CX1 is a great bike, much like the TCR Advanced SL. For me personally, I just am into traditional geometry. Yes, the EP/EPS will not feel as quick out of the box as a well designed monocoque, it will not be as light, but for me, they are one of the most stable and confidence inspiring bicycles I've ridden. I'm also a big fan of non oversized tubing, so prefer the EP over the EPS. Also prefer external headsets. The EP/EPS to me rides solid, the feeling you get when you ride a steel Pegoretti, without the resonance some of the newer thin walled super light monocoques offer. To compare the ride to a Ridley, the EPS would be close to the Excalibur, but less bone jarring, a touch less dead.
> 
> Some say it's an acquired taste. I like my bikes to look timeless and I think the 'luggers' especially Colnago do a great job. The internal tubing is also one of the cleanest out there, something I appreciate.
> 
> With lugs you can get custom geometry i.e. Colnago/Parlee. If I had to have one bike, I'd choose a heavier/solid/stable frame i.e Colnago EP/Parlee Z1 with a set of Edge 1.25 to get to 6.8kg than say a Parlee Z4 with a set of Hyperons.


 All good reasons. Especially "I just prefer_______" My GF rides an Excaliber. For the price, that has to be one of the best buys going. 
Don Hanson


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## merckxman (Jan 23, 2002)

BBOX is riding EPS:
http://italiancyclingjournal.blogspot.com/2009/10/bbox-bouygues-telecom-to-ride-colnago.html

Colnago CSF Inox is riding CX-1:
http://italiancyclingjournal.blogspot.com/2009/12/colnago-csf-inox-team.html



mtbbmet said:


> I think that right now you don't hear alot about the EPS because Colnago is more focused on pushing the CX1, CLX2.0, and the Ace. This probably has alot to do with the size of margins that they are making on the Asian made frames vs the EPS and C50 which likely cost substantially more to produce. The Colnago sponsored Italian continental team will all be riding CX1's, and I'm sure most of the BBox guys will prefer the CX1 as well. I think that Colnago is activly trying to steer buyers in that direction.


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## landrover1970 (Mar 28, 2009)

*super super*

My daily ride...feels like floating on air!!! 1972 super with campy nuovo record.


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## nicensleazy (Aug 3, 2008)

A lovely bike


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## robst (Jul 27, 2009)

nice!!!!


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## giro di lento (Feb 2, 2009)

nicensleazy said:


> Before I start this thread, I just want to make it clear that I'm extremely passionate about Colnago and the cycle frames they make. Perhaps if I wasn't passionate about Colnago, then I wouldn't post this thread. However, I would class myself as a realist and just not blinkered.
> 
> The way I see it, Colnago need to improve their marketing of the brand and the frames they produce. For example, since the launch of the EPS the articles and reviews have been few and far between and most are just down right poor! Why? Take the EPS review on the new Colnago cycle channel, probably one of the worst articles I have come across on a top pro frame. Just no indepth information and not informative. Looks like the info has been down loaded from the Colnago home page. However, take into consideration the EPS review on Colnago.cc, they are worlds apart. At the recent London bike show, the Colnago stand was pretty poor. At the back of the hall stuck away in a corner. Apparently, Alexandro Colnago was in attendance but I didn't see him on the stand meeting and greeting the customers/punters. Apparently he left quite early to return to Italy. My personal feelings are, Mr Colnago is now getting on in years, however and sadly, there is no one else to fill this great masters shoes! Alexandro is no doubt a really nice guy, but he comes across as a young naive school boy and not the possible future statesman of this great frame maker. Personality is extremely important, we all love Mr Colnago. Sadly, the EPS has been out for a little while now, but the whole press launch/spalsh has been pretty crap!
> 
> Now, going back to the London bike show for the moment. Pinarello had a fantastic centre stage stand. It looked lovely. Mr Pinarello in his desighner jacket was meeting and greeting potential customer and members of the press. Like it or not, Pinarello have their marketing Campaign off to a fine art. I was quite impressed. Sadly, the Colnago stand or presence wasn't in the same league. The history of Colnago speaks volumes and the feelings and emotions Colnago evoke are superb. This needs to be capitalized on to project the company into the future. Colnago need to think long and hard about this. In this day and age, no one can afford to rest on their laurels. I do hope with Colnago getting back into the 2010 pro Tour de France, this will help the company establish itself where it belongs.


I agree with this ... I don't own a Colnago but would definitely consider one but I think you also need to consider their pricing. In the UK where I write this a CLX2.0 frameset costs £1699 and I think it's going to probably end up competing against the Cervelo RS at £1799 or even a Specialized S-Works Roubaix SL2 Frameset at £1799 or the SL3 Tarmac at £1899 (especially after you think about trying to negotiate discounts). No disrespect to the CLX2.0 which I'm sure is an excellent bike (the reviews I've seen suggest it is) - but I believe that market perceptions of what are cutting edge frames may also inhibit Colnago's success - why will people choose the CLX2.0 over the others that are near in pricing? In fairness for a full bike - it's a bit different - the CLX2.0 probably competes with the Specialized Roubaix Expert or the new Scott CR1 Pro - and I suspect the Colnago should compete well there - but the power of the big brands is arguably continuing to grow.

There are lots of great bikes out there now - so for winning new customers to the marque - marketing and pricing (read value) are important - who is a new/first time Colnago customer now? What other bikes will they consider? Are they just buying into the past - or the future? Does it matter where the frame is made (not in my opinion)? but what is really unique in modern Colnago's? (I suspect it's the handling from recent reviews I've seen). 

I wish Colnago every success - but I think they are in danger of becoming ever more niche. Apologies if this seems provocative - it's really not meant to be anything more than just another opinion - but I think it's a good debate for all cycling fans that appreciate the value of having lots of brands in the market - not just Colnago owners.

GdL


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## Eyorerox (Feb 19, 2008)

I bought into the past, a Master X Light, not sure I would By a "Modern" Colnago, but I o not race my bike just 100-180 K rides


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## thechriswebb (Nov 21, 2008)

giro di lento said:


> I agree with this ... I don't own a Colnago but would definitely consider one but I think you also need to consider their pricing. In the UK where I write this a CLX2.0 frameset costs £1699 and I think it's going to probably end up competing against the Cervelo RS at £1799 or even a Specialized S-Works Roubaix SL2 Frameset at £1799 or the SL3 Tarmac at £1899 (especially after you think about trying to negotiate discounts). No disrespect to the CLX2.0 which I'm sure is an excellent bike (the reviews I've seen suggest it is) - but I believe that market perceptions of what are cutting edge frames may also inhibit Colnago's success - why will people choose the CLX2.0 over the others that are near in pricing? In fairness for a full bike - it's a bit different - the CLX2.0 probably competes with the Specialized Roubaix Expert or the new Scott CR1 Pro - and I suspect the Colnago should compete well there - but the power of the big brands is arguably continuing to grow.
> 
> There are lots of great bikes out there now - so for winning new customers to the marque - marketing and pricing (read value) are important - who is a new/first time Colnago customer now? What other bikes will they consider? Are they just buying into the past - or the future? Does it matter where the frame is made (not in my opinion)? but what is really unique in modern Colnago's? (I suspect it's the handling from recent reviews I've seen).
> 
> ...


It's provocative, but in a good way 

I don't own a Colnago, but I think they are lovely bikes; good history, beautiful paint schemes, Italian heritage. This is a relevant thread, though. The public perception of Colnago as an aging artist brand that has been unable to keep up with modern trends has been around for a minute now. I own a kayak paddle that was handmade by an artisan in my area who i will not name that has been making them for his whole life. For decades they were the finest to be had, and he sold his cheaper ones for $500. It was a true labor of love. In the late 90's, whitewater kayaking took a turn and started to evolve at an exponential pace, and everything changed. The geometry of the kayaks suddenly changed, which allowed rapids and waterfalls to be run that had never been run before. This also made the sport more accessible to people who were unable to participate before with the old equipment, and there was a boom in popularity. The geometry of paddles changed too, with the discovery that paddling was much more efficient with a different offset and even a strange asymmetry in their shape. This new geometry and the use of carbon fiber (sound familiar?) made paddles that were the absolute finest in the world and winning world championships just five years before completely irrelevant for the purposes of both competition and advanced recreational paddling. This paddlemaker, convinced that the new paddles were so ugly that the fad would eventually pass and people would quit buying them, refused to take up any of the new methods. A couple of years ago he went out of business because the market that his style used to dominate had become a niche and was not enough to sustain him.

This is very, very sad. I hate to think that Colnago is headed in the same direction, but I see some similarities. The bicycle industry has been completely revolutionized in the past ten years and these forums are filled with people lamenting over the changes. Things are the way that they are going to be though, so the manufacturers have to do what they have to do to survive. This year Cannondale is moving all of their production to Asia, and that does provoke some emotions in me because I have been loyal to that brand for a long time. I may still buy their bikes if I like them the best (I'm not ideologically opposed, as some are, to buying Asian sourced bikes) but I may not necessarily consider them over a Bianchi or a Specialized or a Fuji because they are Cannondales. I accept that the truth is, unfortunately, that they simply could not afford to continue handmaking all of their bikes in the USA. The new market simply will not allow them to be competative if they do that. Ultimately, I would rather see the company survive and maintain some form of their identity than insist on continuing to do things the way they always have and completely collapsing in the next few years. I feel the same way about Colnago, because I like seeing their bikes and I like seeing the familiar name. 

Making the CLX was a fantastic decision for the company. It is an Asian monocoque frame with contemporary styling made to compete with the Roubaix Expert, Scott CR1 Pro, Bianchi Infinito, Pinarello FP-2 and 3, and other such bikes. It is a sharp looking modern bike, but it still looks like a Colnago. If I were shopping for a bike of that nature, it is the one that I would want. However, Giro di Lento, I think you hit the nail right on the head when you mentioned it's pricing. The CLX is almost $3000 just for a frameset. Why would I pay $3000 for a CLX frameset when I could pay $2000 and get an entire bike with a Dura Ace group from one of the mail-order companies that was probably made by the same craftsman that built the CLX? I understand paying some $$$$ for an EPS that was handmade in Italy, but if you are going to buy a mass produced carbon frame, why don't you just buy the one that gives you the highest price vs. performance value. I think the CLX is a lovely bike, but i think there are other mass produced carbon bikes in the market that offer a better value for what you are getting. Don't get me wrong. I want Colnago to keep selling expensive bikes that were handmade in their factory in Italy and I also want them to keep offering a less expensive, Taiwan made monocoque bike to compete with the market trends. I think they are charging too much for the CLX, though. There are some people who will buy it because it has the Colnago name on it, is made of Carbon, looks cool, and costs less than the EPS and CX-1. There aren't enough of those people to sustain the company, though. 

I really hope that they are successful and can keep the relevance and prestige of their name.


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## WrenchScienceCliff (Feb 12, 2010)

A lot of really interesting perspectives here. Let me throw in a couple points, as the Colnago expert at my shop:
-Colnago is a small company in the end...I think comments about marketing is mostly right, though they have also earned the laurels upon which they are resting lately.
-lugged carbon is stronger and more comfortable than monocoque, though in many applications it is heavier as well. By no means is it outdated.
-EPS is all lugged, CX-1 is both lugged (rear) and monocoque (front).
-You'll see pros on the CX-1 AND the EPS for 2010, depending on rider preference and course, EPS is better suited for epic and rugged lengthy courses, while CX1 is going to be more aggressive and crit-worthy.

Questions or flaming responses? Would love to hear them - [email protected]


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## Corndog (Jan 18, 2006)

Gnarly 928 said:


> *Well I'm not really a novice *
> 
> *Most bicycle builders have acknowledged that there are better ways to take advantage of the new frame materials.* They have stopped producing carbon 'tubes' They've began building a bike frame as a total structure since carbon has allowed them to move beyond a "Tinker-toy" method of sticking the frame together.
> 
> ...


Really? I have both types of frames.... and if you buy a good quality frame they are all great. That said, most companies don't use lugged construction because they out source the frame building to factories in the far east. 

Some of the best frames in the work are lugged, there is nothing "tinker toy" about modern lugged carbon (or steel for the matter!) frames. Look and Time are fantastic carbon race frames.... not to mention Parlee make some of the best custom frames in the world.


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## bolt30 (Sep 4, 2006)

While lugged frames may be slightly heavier, I would put an EPS up against any other high end frame in terms of any performance measure.


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## mtbbmet (Apr 2, 2005)

IMHO frame weight has now become mostly irrelavent. With components being as light as they are it has become very easy to build a 1200g frame into a UCI illegal bike. What would you rather ride, a 750g noodle, or a 1150g EPS. Both would be at the limit of whats legal. Personally I would (and have) take the heavier frame.


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## JeremyP (Apr 30, 2006)

The current crop of new gen light bikes sub 900g for a medium/small are certainly not noodles. That being said the thin walled construction doesn't lend itself to the ride qualities a 1.2kg EP/EPS offers.


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## ComesAtime (Dec 27, 2009)

To the "Colnago expert at your shop".. You guys just put a Master XL on your gallery. It looks to be around a 58cm and you guys list it at 16lbs. Do you expect people to believe that? Are you weighing your bikes on bathroom scales?


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## WrenchScienceCliff (Feb 12, 2010)

To Comes-
The weights listed in our gallery are estimates only, and are calculated by our build system. We don't claim that weight is 100% accurate. We're not weight weenies and neither is the average Master XL buyer. You're right- that bike in particular seems like it would be closer to 17, though I've personally weighed smaller Master XLs that are in the 16 lb range. In any case, thanks for checking it out. I'd go weigh that 58 XL for you right now....but it has already left the shop with a happy rider.


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## ComesAtime (Dec 27, 2009)

WrenchScienceCliff said:


> To Comes-
> The weights listed in our gallery are estimates only, and are calculated by our build system. We don't claim that weight is 100% accurate. We're not weight weenies and neither is the average Master XL buyer. You're right- that bike in particular seems like it would be closer to 17, though I've personally weighed smaller Master XLs that are in the 16 lb range. In any case, thanks for checking it out. I'd go weigh that 58 XL for you right now....but it has already left the shop with a happy rider.


I know what they weigh. I own one.. Good to know first hand your info on the site is false. thanks.


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## icsloppl (Aug 25, 2009)

Nice looking Master :thumbsup: 

Silver stem maybe? Just thinking...


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## WrenchScienceCliff (Feb 12, 2010)

Nice pic! Riding that thing in the snow? Awesome! Whats the weight on it?


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## ComesAtime (Dec 27, 2009)

WrenchScienceCliff said:


> Nice pic! Riding that thing in the snow? Awesome! Whats the weight on it?


A lot more then 16 lbs.


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## chuckice (Aug 25, 2004)

WrenchScienceCliff said:


> To Comes-
> The weights listed in our gallery are estimates only, and are calculated by our build system. We don't claim that weight is 100% accurate. We're not weight weenies and neither is the average Master XL buyer. You're right- that bike in particular seems like it would be closer to 17, though I've personally weighed smaller Master XLs that are in the 16 lb range. In any case, thanks for checking it out. I'd go weigh that 58 XL for you right now....but it has already left the shop with a happy rider.


16.2 :thumbsup:


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## bolt30 (Sep 4, 2006)

mtbbmet said:


> IMHO frame weight has now become mostly irrelavent. With components being as light as they are it has become very easy to build a 1200g frame into a UCI illegal bike. What would you rather ride, a 750g noodle, or a 1150g EPS. Both would be at the limit of whats legal. Personally I would (and have) take the heavier frame.


I coudn't agree more on weight. I got an EPS last August. Here is the thing: I've never owned a Colnago. I went into the process of buying a new frame with no preference whatsoever toward a brand or style of bike. I test rode pretty much every top of the line frame out there. The EPS was one of the last ones I rode. Quite frankly, it wasn't even close. The EPS rides just as stiff as anything else I tried and was MUCH more of a solid riding/handling bike than anything else WITHOUT feeling heavier when climbing. No other bike was even close when it comes to handling, especially high speed descents.


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## nicensleazy (Aug 3, 2008)

Looks like Colnago are getting their marketing together!


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## The_Kraken (Jul 28, 2009)

*branding*

I envision a universe where Pista Palace is in charge of the marketing. Oh man, just the idea is arousing.


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## SJX426 (Oct 6, 2008)

Funny! Most of the discussion is about CF but the pics are of Steel!


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## Jbartmc (Sep 14, 2007)

The_Kraken said:


> I envision a universe where Pista Palace is in charge of the marketing. Oh man, just the idea is arousing.


That would have been a better world, indeed. Too bad Colnago's selfish and opportunistic decisions ruined that thought.


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## d26818 (Jun 8, 2010)

landrover1970 said:


> My daily ride...feels like floating on air!!! 1972 super with campy nuovo record.


PORN!


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