# Where is Cannondale made?



## pc997

I would like to know where the Cannondale bike is made now?


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## STARNUT

which one?

Starnut


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## JerryLiu

Me too、、、、、、
it's side all the frame mark with "handmade in USA" are made in USA, it's true?


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## STARNUT

if it says that on the frame, then it's one of the ones made in the US.

Starnut


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## pc997

STARNUT said:


> which one?
> 
> Starnut[/QUOTE
> 
> SIX CARBON...


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## Linga115

if you look at the 09 catalog there is nothing saying "handmade in USA" on the frame. but im just comparing the six carbon frames to the CAAD frames. CAAD has it, six does not. in my other thread, someone mention that the six was made in Taiwan or something along those lines.


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## STARNUT

The only US made _road_ frames are the CAAD, Synapse alloy, and the Super. Everything else is asian, including the Six.


Starnut


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## zosocane

STARNUT said:


> The only US made _road_ frames are the CAAD, Synapse alloy, and the Super. Everything else is asian, including the Six.
> 
> 
> Starnut


Starnut, perhaps you have some intell on this, but my LBS manager told me this past weekend that even the 08 SuperSix frame was largely made in Asia, but part of it was completed in Bedford so that there was enough of a US nexus to claim HANDMADE IN USA. He also said that starting next year all of the Cannondale frames (including SuperSix) will be made in Asia. 

Anyone heard something similar?


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## nicks2192

the super six liquigas edition has the american flag near the drop outs on the fork and it says made in the usa on the seat stays.


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## hoehnt

I believe my CAAD7 is really "Handmade in the USA"


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## STARNUT

No...

Cannondale has a big freezer where they keep the raw carbon for the Supers. They are made there.

It's getting to the point where if you buy carbon, and it ain't made in Asia, you got ripped off. Trek and the big C are the only "stock" manufacturers left in the US.

I do know that the cost of building the CAADs has gone _way way way_ up and _one_ of the reasons the Systems were axed was because of the cost of production. It's one reason, not the only.

This begs the question; would you (as in everyone) buy a Cannondale if it was made in Asia? If Cannonadle's highend road frame was suddenly being produced in Asia _*and*_ (this is important) it was a significant improvement over the previous generation, would you buy it? As in, they moved production for manufacturing prowess and quality as well as price. Not simply as a means to decrease price at the expense of quality...................


We shall see........

Starnut


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## merckxman

*I like this...*

...with the little star


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## zosocane

STARNUT said:


> This begs the question; would you (as in everyone) buy a Cannondale if it was made in Asia? If Cannonadle's highend road frame was suddenly being produced in Asia _*and*_ (this is important) it was a significant improvement over the previous generation, would you buy it? As in, they moved production for manufacturing prowess and quality as well as price. Not simply as a means to decrease price at the expense of quality


Put another way, would we buy Specialized? If Cannondale made their top shelf racer in Asia AND they innovated with something new that is trend-setting (and C has a history of trend-setting) AND they continued lifetime, no-hassle warranty on frame AND the price stayed the same, I would probably stick with C, out of loyalty and for love of the brand, if nothing else. 

Having said that, if Trek is the last of the Mohicans, I would be drawn by the "Built in USA" tag that Trek is now putting on their top racing bikes.


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## rizz

I don't care where it's a made. A good product is a good product.


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## cbuchanan

STARNUT said:


> No...
> 
> Cannondale has a big freezer where they keep the raw carbon for the Supers. They are made there.
> 
> It's getting to the point where if you buy carbon, and it ain't made in Asia, you got ripped off. Trek and the big C are the only "stock" manufacturers left in the US.
> 
> I do know that the cost of building the CAADs has gone _way way way_ up and _one_ of the reasons the Systems were axed was because of the cost of production. It's one reason, not the only.
> 
> This begs the question; would you (as in everyone) buy a Cannondale if it was made in Asia? If Cannonadle's highend road frame was suddenly being produced in Asia _*and*_ (this is important) it was a significant improvement over the previous generation, would you buy it? As in, they moved production for manufacturing prowess and quality as well as price. Not simply as a means to decrease price at the expense of quality...................
> 
> 
> We shall see........
> 
> Starnut



Great question STARNUT. My answer is yes. The high-end Cannondale mountainbikes are already made overseas and I have no problem buying those so why would the rest of their line be any different.


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## STARNUT

fornaca68 said:


> Put another way, would we buy Specialized? If Cannondale made their top shelf racer in Asia AND they innovated with something new that is trend-setting (and C has a history of trend-setting) AND they continued lifetime, no-hassle warranty on frame AND the price stayed the same, I would probably stick with C, out of loyalty and for love of the brand, if nothing else.
> 
> Having said that, if Trek is the last of the Mohicans, I would be drawn by the "Built in USA" tag that Trek is now putting on their top racing bikes.


Let's not talk about Specialized, that's a who different ball of crazy. C and S are not in the same area code.


So assuming all conditions are met you'd have no issue with it? 

_IF_ you were to buy a Trek at that point it would sound as if you would be able to justify buy a bike that is less stiff, heavier, and by all measures a little "less" of a bike, simply because it's American made?

I don't want to start the whole "american made" BS but it's always been a Cannondale stock and trade, while the big S was the 1st to go to Asia.

Do it make it less of a "Cannondale" if it's Asian.


For the record, I say ney................. if it has a C on the headtube, it's a Cannondale.

Starnut


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## Linga115

rizz said:


> I don't care where it's a made. A good product is a good product.



:thumbsup: :thumbsup: :thumbsup: :thumbsup: :thumbsup: :thumbsup: :thumbsup:


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## hoehnt

buy American

Your job depends on it.

If you cant see that now you never will.


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## zosocane

STARNUT said:


> I don't want to start the whole "american made" BS but it's always been a Cannondale stock and trade, while the big S was the 1st to go to Asia.


Mike Sinyard is all about increasing profits/cutting overhead, so the fact that Specialized went to Asia first doesn't bother me per se. Look, Specialized makes good bikes, so does Trek, so does Cannondale. With the exception of the CAAD9 and the SuperSix, all of C's product line is made in Asia. It's inevitable (especially with the new Canadian ownership) that all of C's product line eventually will be made abroad. The top-end Madone eventually will be made in Asia too.

The key for me is that on the R&D side Cannondale remain ahead of the pack in terms of innovation. To date they have done that. Example, there is a new trend to go with beefy downtubes and oversize headtubes. Credit that to C, where clearly Specialized followed C's lead on the SystemSix when designing the new S-Works. Also, more frames are going BB30. Credit, again, to C.


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## smouer

A few years ago it was production moved overseas, now we see R&D being moved to as well, prices haven't fallen on the product so where is the benefit to the consumer?

It seems that there's a bit of de-branding of 'Handmade in USA' that's been going on at Cannondale for the past couple of years. 

Even frames that are made the US do not display the 'Handmade in USA' as much as they did in the past, text has gotten smaller.

Personally I think that if Cannondale goes away from the US manufacturing they lost quite a bit of cashe. 


This is a complex issue, one country can't produce everything is uses but I'm not in favor of moving our manufacturing base oversees either. 

When a company starts to reduce cost to a primary way of driving share holder value it seems like it has lost its way....... I don't want to reward a company with my dollars for that. 

So it matters where and how I spend my money....


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## weltyed

i just got a used CAAD7 frame and one of the reasons i bought C was because it was undeniably made in the USA.


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## Bob Ross

hoehnt said:


> buy American
> 
> Your job depends on it.
> 
> If you cant see that now you never will.



I wrote this lyric 20 years ago and still find myself singing it regularly:

*It is not the consumer's responsibility
to ensure the financial solvency
of domestic manufacturing industry
in the absence of competitive quality*

"Buy American"? Screw that. Buy Quality Product, now there's a maxim I can get behind. If it happens to be a quality product that's made in America, wonderful.


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## ping771

Setting aside the term "Made in ...." or "Handmade in ..." since "made" is not a universally defined term in bicycling manufacturing to my knowledge, many people do care where their products are made and that is their primary reason for buying them. Whether other people feel that those kinds of opinions are "right" or legitimate is another story. No one is in a position to judge other people's opinions. Saying "I like to buy American made bikes" without a qualifying statement is like saying "I like red bikes." No one can argue with that.

However, if one says, "I like American bikes because they're better made than those made in Taiwan or China" then that is no longer a pure opinion, but an argument based on an allegation of a fact that can be refuted with other facts, or allegations of fact. 

I don't think anyone here is stating that American made bikes are better than Chinese made bikes, so there really shouldn't be a debate here.


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## ashpelham

I too am concerned about the manufacturing base leaving the US. Why can it not be that part of shareholder value is retaining manufacturing presence at HOME, the United States, rather than just all profits? 

If you were investing in a company, is it all about your ROI, or is there something else you look for? I would bet that the more intelligent in the crowd here are looking at other things, with ROI just being a big one of those things. I'd love to invest in a profitable business here in the US that makes things and sells things in the US. If there are ways it can increase its profitability by innovating or, egads!, moving some processes offshore, then that's ok too.

But if everything Cannondale makes is made elsewhere, then it's not an American company anymore. Heck, it's already owned by the Canadians  !

By the way, I still proudly ride a CAAD 8 with that big beautiful American Flag on it.


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## ping771

Yes, it is a more than a bit depressing to not see the "Handmade in USA" on nearly all 2009 Cannondales. Bicycles are not computers, or for that matter, not like cars. I would venture to guess that most people who buy Mercedes M-Class SUV's don't care (or even know) that they're made and assembled in Alabama, not in Germany To them it's still a Mercedes Benz, no matter where the chassis is manufactured, where the wheels come from etc. With bicycles, many of us appreciate the minute details that go into a bike, from who makes the components, who makes the frames, where it is made, frame geometry and fit (people wouldn't be talking about it or have created a forum about cycling if there wasn't an interest). In other words, a bicycle is more personal, and in some respects, it is a reflection and an extension of us. So, for many of us, we care about what our bikes are (including where they're made). Many people take pride in owning an American made bike (at least frame anyway). 

I own and have owned bikes made in Taiwan, Italy, and China. When I sell those, I'd like to get a Cannondale, probably a used six13, for various reasons, as opposed to its replacement, the Six, partly because they are not made in the US any longer. Another reason is that Cannondale prided itself in the six13 in being different in the carbon and aluminum frame market as not taking the cost-effective way out by simply making an aluminum front end bonded to a carbon rear triangle. The 2009 Six does just that. Whether the carbon rear end/aluminum top, down and headtubes translates into a similar ride to the six13, perhaps someone here can say. As aesthetics go (yes that too is important), I hope that some people may agree with me that the new Six's and Six Carbons, don't look like the six13's, and a bit less like a Cannondale. There is a bit too much top tube slope. Who would have thought if you wanted an affordable new US made Cannondale, you have to look at the entry level CAAD9?


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## jesusaa

Hello 
I have got a cannondale synapse alloy 2008. This one does not have the American flag and either " hand made in USA ". For my it was a great desilución.

My seller says that is done in America, that alone the range of mountain CO2 is done in Asia. I already do not know whom believing. 

The truth, I would like to know where it is done really. If I wanted a Taiwanese bicycle I had bought a Giant.

Thanks.


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## funhog1

*Dorel Industries, Location for Production, & Outdated Classical Econ Theory.*

I'm trying to avoid an *either-or* mentality that limits options to be considered, because soberingly, we all know that Cannondales are made, somewhere in the Milky Way Galaxy -- somewhere on the planet Earth. 

Where is the *best* place to make *them*? 

That depends on what kind of world a person wants to live in. 

Giant, Ideal and Merida. These are the Big Three companies make up the "Chaiwanese/Asian" bicycle production mafiosos. They produce bikes for Trek, Specialized, Cannondale and many many many many others. 

In the old world, a business would plead to their government for the protection of tariffs so they could still manufacture locally and compete with manufacturing prowess from overseas. However in the bicycle industry where someting is manufactured is not largely determined by manufacturing prowess. It's determined by labor & production costs (logistics). 

Classical Econ theory assumes that the cost of producing something locally simply cannot compete with the cost of producing something in Asia. The humans in America are no less able than the humans in Asia at making bicycles. Asia simply has more humans. With production over there, there is a gravity pull of raw material being shipped to, and made in Asia. Asia is where all the material and people are. Producing there has little to do with quality and largely everything to do with costs. 

If next year Phil White & Gerard Vroomen (CERVELO) found that the most profitable way to produce Cervelos would be by penguins on melting icebergs in Antartica then you can betchur sox everyone would soon rush to put production there.... so that lawyers, and dentists and doctors could then proudly parade world class penguin made Cervelos at sub-aero speeds across the finish line at the Wichita Falls "Dumber'n Hell" Hundred mile bicycle race.

Why this is so may be explained in a small way by *marginalism*

Much like Formula One, & the auto industry, with cycling there is a somewhat rigidly adhered to template for what is a (car) bicycle. This may be explained by the sport that defines the industry. The UCI (NJS in Hipster Speak) with it's edict (& i have no problem with this edict) that *all* shall ride double diamond frames with specific geometry and weight guidelines--- has created an industry where the final product is not up to becoming hugely redefined by some clever engineers. Instead the only upgrades available are teency itty bitty refinements. This leads to the reams of innocuous *engineering* do-hickeys and trinkets that each year define what in another world would be seen as absurd performance gains. Couple this with the inefficiency of the human body, the individual consumer, and you have folks willing to pay beaucoup for what in the end is little, or virtually no real or tangible performance gain. 

This means that absurdly small upgrades or refinements have a percieved high margin of utility (marginalism) for the end user..... It's not that the upgrades or refinements themselves actually provide a tangible gain..(only a percieved gain).. but since they are the only "upgrade" avialable consumers will go nuts for them. This is why college kids slobber-like zombies for carbon/carbon alu *Six's*, when a CAAD9 gets the job done no differently. -- With tiny marginal gains the only thing available, engineers, product managers and marketing folks will comb over every teeny itsy bitsy piece of a bike and find some bizarre (creative) way to *create* a *new* *feat* of engineering for the slobbering gear fever crazed nut to buy. 

All of that is very very expensive. This in a very small way, explains in some part *why* everyone is rushing to get bikes and bike parts made in Asia, which is great if you work for Giant, Merida or Ideal. 

Barring a bad economy, production overseas has little to do with the solvency of C-dale (their bike company has always been profitible, it was the Japanese *gov-bailout* comp and under-capitalization of their moto's that did them in in '03). Dorel has enough capital to produce most anywhere they'd reasonably like to and still make a profit. 

Consider that Dorel has EIGHT offices in China that manage production for the entire company. Anything in Wisconsin (Pacific Cycles) or Bethel/Bedford USA (Cannondale Sports Group) is an afterthought. The real engine for Dorel is China. When Dorel bought C-dale, it could probably have cared less about having a factory in the USA that would be less profitable than streamlining production where it's mainly run from... in China/Asia. 

A bad economy combined with outdated classical economic theory might incline Dorel to mistakenly close USA production. Shareholders want a return on their investment. They wouldn't want to subsidize the jobs of a few hundred folks in Bedford PA. They would want to subsidize themselves, their company and their lives and not *Cannondale*, or what you the end user may percieve to be the greatest way to make a Cannondale. 

It's at this point I digress from Classical Econ theory. 

There is a band of coniferous forest circling the globe five hundred miles south of the Artic. This band of trees makes up 1/3 of all of the trees on the planet. What those trees do is make air -- oxygen -- for you to breath, for free. Classical econ theory doesn't take into account all the amazing things the planet Earth does for *free* for humankind. 

Air, Water....what would be the cost of those things if we had to produce them ourselves? Several Hundred Trillion Dollars at the most.... maybe 30 Trillion at the least. Who knows? It's kinda nice to be able to breath air for free. (innit?) 

Crushingly humankind is going through a paradigm shift. Catching several hundred tons of fish off the coast of Norway and then shipping those fish around the world to China so they may be packaged there, (to avoid high labor cost in Norway) and then having those same fish shipped back to Norway for consumption...while profitible for the fishing company, may not be profitible for humankind as a whole. The inefficient waste of energy forever lost in shipping combined with all the pollution involved may incur a cost so great that satiating the individual whim of ignorant consumers so they can afford carbon trinkets or eat cheap fish is quite simply absurd. 

It may be in this way that keeping the factory open in Bedford makes sense. The humans in Bedford are no less able at making bicycles than the one's in Asia. Dorel could as easily park enough talent at any location on the planet they want. Again if the profit margin for making bikes on melting icebergs were big enough then you could bet Dorel engineers, plant managers and labor would be tempted to go there.....and make it all happen, not so much for yours the consumers sake but largely for the shareholders sake. 

Based on information from T. Friedman, J. Sachs, B. McKibben, & L. Summers I don't think for me, being only concerned about bullshit refinements, or parking lot crits full of super affluent (relative to the rest of the planet) and spoiled (me) over thirty something amateur racers is worth crying about. I myself confess to selfishly wanting a good experience in this life, and I don't want anyone else to muss it up. If moving total production to China makes sense by every good metric and reason. Then I'm all for it. IF it doesn't....

Well regardless Dorel should be held accoutable by the market place to make choices for the good of everyone. Either way, it just doesn't matter because there will always be the metaphorical equivalent of some teenager on a poo bike with downtube shifters, that fits well, (& makes fiscal sense) laying waste to upper middle class fools running/rocking Double Tappers, Stupor Wreckards, & 'Letric Doorrache's as much as I like those things. 

Paz.


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## ping771

In other words, 1) most Cannondales are now being made in China, and probably within a few years all will be made in China 2) Dorel doesn't give a damn what the good folks in Bedford, PA think.


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## hoehnt

The Institute for Supply Management said its manufacturing activity index fell to the lowest level in 28 years in December. The ISM, a trade group of purchasing executives, said its manufacturing index fell to 32.4 in December from 36.2 in November. Economists polled by Thomson Reuters had expected a reading of 35.5; a figure below 50 indicates contraction.

For every manufacturing job lost in this country there are several other jobs that rely directly or indirectly on manufacturing.
As the jobs are lost the competition for the remaining jobs will become more competetive and the wages will decrease.
This means less purchasing power and a lower standard of living for ALL Americans. Not just those in manufacturing.
Its not that complicated to understand really.
For those of you who dont understand this or care...that pathetic "I got mine, to hell with everyone else" atttitude in this country will spell our downfall.


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## keep riding

*Here you but think there's more to it...*

I can only assume then that your bike, its components, your car, etc. are all made in the USA. I do support buying USA manufactured products when they are quality goods; I also am not a proponent of off-shoring in most cases. However, it is IMHO a mistake to purchase goods solely on the basis of where they are manufactured - that actually creates a disincentive to create a better product. Do you think the Big Three are in trouble solely because people didn't want to buy U.S. cars? U.S. cars can be purchased for the same amount or less than Asian cars. A significant reason why the Big Three are in trouble is because they stubbornly held on to antiquated and inefficient manufacturing processes which led to inferior products. 

Cannondale is an innovator and has been for many years. That R&D largely remains in the U.S.; only the labor has been shipped overseas. However, Cannondale also receives considerable feedback from its riders, few of whom are U.S. citizens (i.e. what's "Made in the U.S.A." really mean?). Even SRAM has moved much of production overseas - so what components should we run on our bikes and still support U.S. manufacturing? We live in a global economy - I completely support buying U.S. products and ensuring that our trade partners are playing fairly (e.g. not devaluing their currency to curb imports from the U.S.). 

For the record, I have a 2007 Synapse SL and think it is a great bike - a lot of thought went into making this bike more comfortable (using the chain stays from their mountain bike line, raising headtube, etc.). I have no doubt that thought process occurred in the U.S., as well as the design; my guess is that the molds were put together in China and sent back for production. Either way, I don't consider this a "U.S." or a "Chinese" bike - it's a Cannondale, and every bit the great product as my other C-dales (CAAD 7, CAAD 5).


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## robertburns3

keep riding said:


> ...A significant reason why the Big Three are in trouble is because they stubbornly held on to antiquated and inefficient manufacturing processes which led to inferior products....


Thanks for repeating the anti-Detroit meme that has no basis in reality. 

Have you been in a big-three manufacturing facility or read about how effecient, productive and high quality they are? I have. 

You sir don't know what you are talking about.


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## funhog1

*That is a valid point*



robertburns3 said:


> Thanks for repeating the anti-Detroit meme that has no basis in reality.
> 
> Have you been in a big-three manufacturing facility or read about how effecient, productive and high quality they are? I have.
> 
> You sir don't know what you are talking about.


I agree. That's a valid point.

Merc's, Toyota's, Hondas = all made in here in the US as well (not all models)

The failing of the big three....probably has not a lot to do with the ability of the humans here to produce cars versus the one's in Asia or elsewhere. 

It seems to me that quality for all brands appears to be directly related to the corporate management of engineering and parts sourcing (i.e. any model of car may fall victim to a batch of poor quality parts made in Mexico or elsewhere or management that lazily refuses to fix niggling design issues). 

And here's where things get hard for me. I love mustangs. But they are shitty designs. They look badass, have great motors, but 

who... 

in their right mind...

makes a *performance* car

with -- get this.....

a *live axel*

There's no excuse for that. Americans are smarter than that. Detroit deserved to give us better. Let's hope they do so in the future, because like you've pointed out the humans here are no less able at *making* cars than the humans anyplace else. They deserve to (at the very least) get paired with management that gives a **** about something more than the laziest & dumbest way to achieve a profit margin = which ultimately = no profit margin.


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## hoehnt

muscle cars are supposed to have live axles. its part of what they are.


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## funhog1

*Buing something has a new metric.*



ping771 said:


> In other words, 1) most Cannondales are now being made in China, and probably within a few years all will be made in China 2) Dorel doesn't give a damn what the good folks in Bedford, PA think.


.....in other words, Dorel should be held accountable by the market place (we) for making good decisions. In todays world no company should be allowed by an un-educated market place to willy nilly sling product and decisions around with the sole idea of making a few tiny greedy shareholders happy. The world's too small for that. While Dorel's impact in the world may seem insignificant... for consumers to continue to remain ignorant in a fashion that may incur damaging costs (are we not already there?) is significant in ways not fun for anyone.


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## funhog1

hoehnt said:


> muscle cars are supposed to have live axles. its part of what they are.



lol.... yeah. 



:thumbsup: :thumbsup: :thumbsup: :thumbsup: :thumbsup: :thumbsup:


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## Country Hick

*where is cannondale made*



pc997 said:


> I would like to know where the Cannondale bike is made now?


I would too like to know where the various models of Cannondale and other types of bikes are produced in terms of the country. Asia is more general that what I would like to know.


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## zosocane

Country Hick said:


> I would too like to know where the various models of Cannondale and other types of bikes are produced in terms of the country. Asia is more general that what I would like to know.


The SuperSix Hi-Mod frame is made in Taichung, Taiwan. Don't know where the other frames are made.


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## KevRC4130

As an industrial designer who deals with the design, manufacturing, and production of a variety of products... Here's a little food for thought: 

I love a good American-made product as much as the next guy. 

The reality, though, is that Asian countries (namely China) simply have manufacturing capabilities that go far beyond what US factories are capable of. We have not been a true manufacturing power in decades. The honest truth is that the bike made in Taiwan is, generally speaking, the better made bike. At least, if you're talking purely about tolerances, consistency, etc.

I am not belittling the fact that a bike made by a boutique manufacturer in the USA is going to be made with a huge amount of craftsmanship, love, and pride. But again, purely from a objective standpoint of manufacturing prowess, Asia far surpasses. 

The other end of the spectrum is, say, something made in Italy. Products here are made with more "passion" than precision. You look at Ferrari's through the 80's, where they were hand built... Your quarter-million dollar supercar had horrendously crooked body panels and dripping glue. On a product like this, though, these flaws become "charm" - and hey, it's a ferrari, and it goes like stink! 

The other reality is that carbon fiber (in the case of bike frames) is a pretty environmentally dirty thing to make. Yes, the costs are lower due to lower wages for factory workers (though it's probably not as cheap as you think). The bigger piece of the equation is that making something like a carbon fiber bike frame within USA environmental policies is complicated and expensive. Asian factories have much more leeway with the way they handle these types of expenses... 


The point I am trying to make is: stuff made in Asia is the best in the world. While being "handmade in the USA" like the old Cannondales is certainly a virtue, the Taiwanese bikes are almost certainly being made to a far tighter spec, for better or for worse. We definitely are paying a price in terms of human labor and environmental responsibility, but few consumers are willing to double the price of their Supersix to get a bike that is responsibly-made, and probably less well built.


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## KevRC4130

funhog1 said:


> I agree. That's a valid point.
> 
> Merc's, Toyota's, Hondas = all made in here in the US as well (not all models)
> 
> The failing of the big three....probably has not a lot to do with the ability of the humans here to produce cars versus the one's in Asia or elsewhere.
> 
> It seems to me that quality for all brands appears to be directly related to the corporate management of engineering and parts sourcing (i.e. any model of car may fall victim to a batch of poor quality parts made in Mexico or elsewhere or management that lazily refuses to fix niggling design issues).
> 
> And here's where things get hard for me. I love mustangs. But they are shitty designs. They look badass, have great motors, but
> 
> who...
> 
> in their right mind...
> 
> makes a *performance* car
> 
> with -- get this.....
> 
> a *live axel*
> 
> There's no excuse for that. Americans are smarter than that. Detroit deserved to give us better. Let's hope they do so in the future, because like you've pointed out the humans here are no less able at *making* cars than the humans anyplace else. They deserve to (at the very least) get paired with management that gives a **** about something more than the laziest & dumbest way to achieve a profit margin = which ultimately = no profit margin.



The failing of the Big Three comes down to the simple fact that their cars, generally speaking, are unimpressive. The interiors are awful, the suspensions are softly sprung, the exterior designs are uninspired. American car companies cater to the Wal-Mart-consuming masses... Which, unfortunately for them, is a shrinking demographic as urbanization is occurring and consumers are becoming far more sophisticated at a fast pace (the recent demise of the Republican party could also be applied here, but I digress...). Ford is the biggest exception, with some other notable players taking things seriously (Cadillac, GMC). 

It's not necessarily an American problem, though it does chiefly stem from American car values. FCA (Fiat Chrysler Automobiles) has disappointed with the recent news that the new Alfa Romeo Giulia, which was supposed to take America by storm, has failed many of its crash tests and is delayed as it goes back to the drawing boards. In a premium product like this, that is unacceptable... Sexy Italian sheetmetal or not. 

As for the Mustang having a live axle... I do tend to agree that it's somewhat part of the charm of being a muscle car. You could also argue that big pushrod V8's are archaic (which they are)... Still, the LSx engines have a place in the world, they have evolved in their own way, and simply hold their own.


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## bikerjulio

There is a fairly authoritative sounding responder over on Weightweenies where the exact same question is being asked.

The answer there is that currently the Supersix frames are moulded in China and finished and painted in Taiwan.

Supersix Evo hi mod, China or Taiwan? - Weight Weenies


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