# How fragile are road bikes?



## Minjin (Jan 9, 2007)

I've been recently considering picking up a road bike. I've been mountain biking for many years and throughout those years, I've ridden a bunch on the road, just never with a road bike. I've always heard anecdotes from guys at work or wherever about how easy it to pop a tube or break a wheel. Seems like all it takes is a crease in the road to cause problems. So, I'm now considering picking up a road bike and I've been looking at cyclocross bikes because I hear that they might be able to handle riding over a pebble without breaking.  

My question is this: Just how fragile are road bikes? Are the lower end bikes more durable (paradoxically)? Can I ever expect to be able to ride off a curb and not break something? I'm not looking to do 3 foot drops or anything but life is so much easier when you have some freedom in how and where you ride. What kinds of things have you guys broken and in what situation? IS a cyclocross bike more durable? How much have you had to change your riding style when going from mountain to road?

Just looking for some thoughts. Thanks in advance.


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## Cory (Jan 29, 2004)

*Too many variables to answer absolutely, but...*

There are just too many variables to pin that down. My main road ride now is an Atlantis, and I'm sure that's as tough as either of my mountain bikes (old steel rigid Bridgestone and newer Cannondale). I've ridden it all around Reno, on fire trails and singletrack, with no problems other than an occasional cut sidewall. I ride it down curbs occasionally but not up them, and I don't worry much about where I'm going with it. Some of my previous roadies, though, have been much less robust.
It depends a lot on what you chose. I've never weighed the Atlantis, but I'm sure it's in the mid 20s, and wouldn't be surprised if it weighs 30 pounds (it's a 64cm with Brooks saddle and Carradice bag, plus stout 36-spoke wheels). I weigh 240, and it suits me fine--lighter bikes and especially lighter wheels haven't stood up very well.
With what passes for an average over-the-counter road bike these days, in an average size, you can certainly get below 18 pounds, and mostly those bikes aern't particularly delicate. Unavoidably, though, they're not going to be as strong as a mountain bike, especially if you put on 20-spoke wheels and skinny tires. They're different bikes designed for different things, and if you don't consider that, you probably won't be happy.


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## ericm979 (Jun 26, 2005)

The wheels are not quite as sturdy, there's no suspension, and you have narrow tires.

If you keep those in mind and adjust your technique you can do a lot. I see good riders going down and up curbs all the time, but they are careful to hop both wheels off and especially up. If you thud your wheels into the curb when riding up it, you'll probably snake bite a tube and if you do it hard, break a wheel. I can usually hop both the front and back wheels but not always, so I don't ride up curbs. Its very rare that I need to anyhow; if I did need to do it a lot I'd learn to do it reliably.

You can ride even a light carbon race bike off road, if you are careful what you ride over. No big rocks, no sharp rocks, and riding in sand takes good technique (and you'd better hope it's not too deep).

Road tires do flat more often because there's less rubber between flat causing junk and the tube. You'll learn quickly enough what to look for.


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## mud390 (Sep 6, 2006)

I wouldn't call them fragile. A friend and I went on a ride the other day. He's a long time mountain biker and just put together his first road bike. Its an older Cannondale aluminum frame and steel fork. He was using 700x23 tires on this bike. I watched as he bunny hopped over storm drains, on and off curbs, and did short wheelies. I would recomend this sort of thing, but it goes to show that it can be done without breaking anything.

Kris


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## z ken (Dec 30, 2006)

minjin: i too used to ride mountain bike for couple months and decided to go road. eversince then i've not return to mountain bike. road bike is just like driving ferrari. you feel the " rush " of going over 50+ mph ( on the down hills and do make sure you have great brakes b/c it's hair-raising scary ) also you've to watchout for the glasses, metal and other hazardous odjects on the road ) last but least make you install slim in your tubs--prevent more flats. don't buy carbon bike if it's your first road bike. go with al. or ti.


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## brianmcg (Oct 12, 2002)

If you use wider tires 700x28 or 700x32 and have wheels with at least 36 spokes you will have very few flats or broken spokes. 

Its when you start running 700x23 or 700x20 pumped up to 120psi on a 16 spoke wheel you will start to have problems. Sure the thinner harder wheel is faster and lighter, but your on the edge of failure riding at high speeds. That's why you see so much wheel support at pro races. They get flats and break spokes all the time.

If you want a really durable road bike for not a lot of money take a look at Surly. www.surlybikes.com

I just bought a Long Haul Trucker and have mounted 700x35 tires on some 36 hole wheels. This bike feels VERY sturdy. If I ever have a problem with this bike I know it won't be the wheels.

Here are some pics of it:
http://forums.roadbikereview.com/showthread.php?t=81933

http://forums.roadbikereview.com/showthread.php?t=82884

They also have a Pacer wich is more of a traditional road bike and the Cross Check wich is their X-Cross bike.


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## fleck (Mar 25, 2005)

They aren't as fragile as you'd think.
Steel tends to be the most resiliant and bang for the buck
but if you care about weight you'll pay a little.

I only weight 145 and have gone through lots of wheels on my MTB. Spokes, rims, hubs you name it. Road wheels aren't built all that weaker then MTB wheels. They have less stregnth as they are a larger diameter but it's not a huge diffrence. Most guys just use their spare road wheels for CX. I've seen plenty of zipp 404s out there too (not the CX or heavy guy model either)

Bike stuff breaks but you'll see far less on a road bike then your MTB


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## daneil (Jun 25, 2002)

Not weaker at all imo. I commute in NYC with my race bike everyday over the worst roads you can think of including some ancient cobbles. No problem with my Specialized S-Works M2 with deep section (45mm) Gipiemme Techon 716's. Up and down curbs, bunny-hopping the larger potholes that come from nowhere, etc is never a problem. FWIW during the season I generally keep my race rubber on (the commute is only 5 miles each way) and they're 20mm Maxxis tires. No problems with flats. You just have to be more aware with a road bike. If you have some experience with a mtb off road and are comfortable reading a line you should be fine.


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## Minjin (Jan 9, 2007)

Thanks for the replies guys. So what do you get with a cyclocross bike? More relaxed geometry? Larger volume tires? But can't you run the same tires on a normal road bike?

I was just getting the impression that these super light bikes will snap in half if you look at them wrong...


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## JCavilia (Sep 12, 2005)

*road bike ruggedness*

I have one word for you (well, two words, but they're hyphenated): Paris-Roubaix.


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## funknuggets (Feb 4, 2004)

From what I see, if you hit something hard enough just about every bike can break, or bend. Ive seen aluminum fail catestrophically, Ive seen carbon bikes shatter, Ive bent steel bikes before... so its all a matter of what you think you are going to do. Bikes have to be pretty durable. If you are going to go jump off curbs and hit things, then honestly... I would look towards a traditional geometry, NON SUPERLIGHT, frame of the steel or titanium variety. Aluminum bikes are light, but likely have ridiculously thin tubing in order to save weight and material.... (have you ever SEEN the cross section of a cannondale frame?). 

Wheels are what were said... typically the more spokes... 36, and with a little bit of a aero rim.. .the better... however ksyriums are freaking bulletproof. I know a guy that uses the same set of ksys to race crits and do cyclocross. So, that being said.... get a steel or ti bike with a good set of wheels and you wont hurt it. You stay upright and the bike will be fine.


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## brianmcg (Oct 12, 2002)

Minjin said:


> Thanks for the replies guys. So what do you get with a cyclocross bike? More relaxed geometry? Larger volume tires? But can't you run the same tires on a normal road bike?
> 
> I was just getting the impression that these super light bikes will snap in half if you look at them wrong...


 
The size of tire you can use largely depends on the design of the bike. A typical road racing bike such as a Trek 5500 or whatever, will have very little tire clearance. The largest tire you will be able to get on it is 700x25mm. This is fine if you are racing. 

There are other road bikes that fit larger tires such as the Surly Pacer or a Rivendell Rambouillet. They will fit tires up to 32mm wide with sidepull brakes.

If you want more tire, then you can get a touring bike like the Trek 520 or Surly Long Haul Trucker. These bikes have good clearance and they use cantilever brakes which will allow you to use up to 700x42 or higher tires. 

A cyclocross bike has geometry similar to a road racing bike but using cantilever brakes and some extra clearance can fit really wide knobby mtb style tires.

So basically the type of riding you do should dictate the type of bike you get. If you are going to be doing a lot of commuting, jumping curbs, hopping off speedbumps and some trail riding I would get a cyclocross bike. If you will be doing more leisurley riding, long rides, or touring with camping gear strapped to a rack get a touring bike. If you are going to be racing get a race bike.:thumbsup:


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## Mark McM (Jun 18, 2005)

Minjin said:


> So what do you get with a cyclocross bike? More relaxed geometry? Larger volume tires? But can't you run the same tires on a normal road bike?


I wouldn't exactly say that a cyclocross bike has a "more relaxed geometry" than a road racing bike, since the rider position is nearly the same. Instead, the cyclocross bike might be said to have a more stable and forgiving geometry, due to its longer wheelbase and longer steering trail (steering trail is derived from steering geometry, and what gives a bike stability). In addition, as you said, it allows larger volume tires, which give better traction and shock absorption, especially on bumpier surfaces.

Cyclocross bikes have become popular in recent years as a stable, comfortable road bike because the "sport touring" bike has been killed by an American public who has been sold on the idea that everybody should have a "racing bike" (probably because everybody wants to be Lance Armstrong).

A "sport touring" bike typically had a longer wheelbase and more stable steering geometry than a "racing bike". It had long reach brake calipers that could accomodate wider tires (plus fenders) for a more comfortable ride, and typically had a full set of eyelets for mounting racks and fenders. These became less popular as road racing bikes became more popular, and MTBs became popular, and as "hybrid" bikes took over the low-end market.

So now, when serious cyclists look for a bike to fit the demands once met by the "sport tourer", they often find that the cyclocross bike is the best match for the task.


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## Henry Porter (Jul 25, 2006)

z ken said:


> don't buy carbon bike if it's your first road bike. go with al. or ti.


Why not?


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## IAmCosmo (Jul 26, 2005)

I started riding my road bike at 260 lbs. (down to 240 and counting now). My road bike has held up well under me. No broken spokes, no bent wheels, no cracked frames, or anything like that. I do run about 110 psi in my tires, and I do my best to avoid potholes, manhole covers, etc., but I have hit my fair share of them. I do wear tires out faster than most other people, and my chains don't last as long, but I knew that coming in.


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## Oldteen (Sep 7, 2005)

It depends entirely on what your idea of fragile is. Most reputable road bikes with durable tires (25-28mm) & wheels (32-36 spoke) will handle hardpack trails & reasonable fire roads pretty well. Cyclocross bikes are made to this type of stuff (and more) under sloppy conditions. OTOH- a steady diet of 2-3ft log crossings, 2-3 ft+ drops, and 6-8"+ rock gardens would be a different story. In the urban jungle there are skilled riders who can hop up curbs on roadies, but I cannot do that reliably enough to avoid busting tires. OTOH- learning to bunny hop railroad tracks on a roadie is a useful skill- but practice first. It's a different feel on an 18-20# roadie vs a 30# FS. Riding style is not too different except that I try to avoid sharp rocks, big potholes, etc. which I would just ride over on my MTB. 
BTW- A light HT with high-pressure (80psi or so) slicks can be an OK road ride, although the gearing will be short (44/11 tops) vs a roadie (52-53/11). Bar ends can offer another hand position for longer rides. If you decide to buy a roadie, try to get a fit (seat position, reach, torso position, etc.) that mimics your MTB so you feel comfortable on both bikes. BTW- most serious MTB racers log lots of miles on roadies to get more CV conditioning with less pounding than riding trails all the time.


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## uzziefly (Jul 15, 2006)

JCavilia said:


> I have one word for you (well, two words, but they're hyphenated): Paris-Roubaix.



That pic really Paris-Roubaix?? 

Looks like a cross race to me


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## Doggity (Mar 10, 2006)

They're tougher than they look, as the above pics points out. That said, the real question is, what kind of riding do YOU want to do? I humbly submit the radical proposition that you should fit the bike's design around the kind of riding YOU want to do, rather than choosing the kind of riding the bike is designed for. Most of us do the latter...'I've got a roadie, so those dirt roads are off limits..." What nonsense! But this is foisted upon us by market driven design...everything is so...specialized. So, it gets back to you. If speed is of the utmost, and you only plan to ride blacktop, by all means get a roadie, and don't worry about it. But if you think you might want to ride some dirt roads on occasion, or commute, or haul groceries, or camp, or tour, or ride some fire trails, or ALL of the above, it's hard to see how you could go wrong with something like Brian's Long Haul Trucker. Or the Rivendell Atlantis, Saluki, or Bleriot, if you want more eye candy. But it's not necessary to spend that much to get a really great all around bike.


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## fbagatelleblack (Mar 31, 2005)

Minjin said:


> Thanks for the replies guys. So what do you get with a cyclocross bike? More relaxed geometry? Larger volume tires? But can't you run the same tires on a normal road bike?
> 
> I was just getting the impression that these super light bikes will snap in half if you look at them wrong...


Generally speaking, lighter road frames do tend to be more fragile. That's not always true, but it is a good rule of thumb.

Cyclecross frames generally use thicker tubes, so the are generally stronger. Also, they frequently have clearance for fatter tires, which cushion the frame better when you go over bumps, etc., and so make the bike stronger as well. Many race bike frames do not have clearance for tires larger than 25mm or so.

I am having some large road bikes built with 7005 aluminum cyclocross tubing because it is beefier. Since the bikes will be ridden by large folks, I want to make sure the tubing can take the extra stress.

Cyclocross bikes tend to have higher bottom brackets and more "off road" oriented geometry, so they might not handle as quickly as a bike built to road bike spec's.

You might also want to look into touring bikes. They are generally pretty stout and they generally have lower bottom brackets than do cross bikes, but they do have relaxed geometry.

Bottom line: If you want a very strong road bike, don't buy the lightest one out there. Buy one that is designed to take a beating and keep going. Look at cross bikes, tourers, some of the "urban assault" road bikes that are popular now, or any other road bike that is not trying to shave every gram possible.

Some good brands to look at are:

Surly
Jamis
Rivendell

My list is biased toward steel frames, because that is more my area of expertise. I bet others in this group can suggest some very nice aluminum, composite or Ti bikes.

Oh, and a friend of mine just got this Iron Horse road bike for his girl friend:

http://tinyurl.com/3xjlk9

For $1000, it comes with some Ultegra stuff (including a 10 speed cassette), cyclocross wheels, and a pretty beefy frame. In a 47cm frame, the bike weighed in at about 19 or 20 lb, so it's no featherweight. That might be a good choice for someone like yourself.

My Two Cents,

FBB


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## wankski (Jul 24, 2005)

they're not that fragile.... i bunny hop things and even dekurb at low speed - hit steel raised speed humps etc - no problemo !

(we also have tram lines here - and i jump over them by hopping side ways while sprinting, u DONT wanna stick your tyre in that rail groove !)

i'm running a columbus zonal frame (heavier alu road frame - very stiff and sturdy) my wheels are ventos and i haven't had too much problems....

if you do ruin your prebuilts - then grab some deep v rims w/ 32 spokes and you'ld have a pretty strong wheel....essentially a mtb wheel thats an inch bigger...

u dont have to stick with 23C, u can go slightly bigger but there's really no need - i dont flat often... usually a sharp bit of glass that punches thru.... That's where cross bikes come in - they allow much fatter tyres... but i wouldn't be scared off road bikes for this reason..


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## fbagatelleblack (Mar 31, 2005)

*Sport Touring Resurgence?*



Mark McM said:


> Cyclocross bikes have become popular in recent years as a stable, comfortable road bike because the "sport touring" bike has been killed by an American public who has been sold on the idea that everybody should have a "racing bike" (probably because everybody wants to be Lance Armstrong).
> 
> A "sport touring" bike typically had a longer wheelbase and more stable steering geometry than a "racing bike". It had long reach brake calipers that could accomodate wider tires (plus fenders) for a more comfortable ride, and typically had a full set of eyelets for mounting racks and fenders. These became less popular as road racing bikes became more popular, and MTBs became popular, and as "hybrid" bikes took over the low-end market.
> 
> So now, when serious cyclists look for a bike to fit the demands once met by the "sport tourer", they often find that the cyclocross bike is the best match for the task.


Hi Mark,

I think sport touring geometry is making a real comeback. Kogswell, Rivendell, Surly... they are all introducing frames that look A LOT like sport tourers to me.

The frames I am bringing in will have classic sport touring geometry, with a 73 degree head angle and a 72 degree seat angle, but I am only bringing in immensely huge frames at first (virtual 68cm - you gotta start with a niche, right?).

What are the angles like on the "upright road bikes," Cannondale Badboy, etc., looking like? I am guessing they are moving towards sport touring geometry as well, but maybe their head angles are more ATB-esque.

Yours,

FBB


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## bluebomberx (Dec 12, 2006)

I laid my CAAD 8 R1000 over on Tuesday in a 20 MPH turn and it proved to fair better than I did. The bike needs new bar tape and the shifter got a little scratched. I have lots of road rash, a cracked helmet, and a broken clavicle.


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