# z6 size 58 vs 61 size difference



## ctkeebler (Feb 28, 2012)

being between size 58 and 61 on the z6, what is the real size difference or where would I see the biggest difference?

if you error on one side is it better to error on the bigger or smaller size bike?, i know i should strive for the correct fit.


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## PJ352 (Dec 5, 2007)

ctkeebler said:


> being between size 58 and 61 on the z6, what is the real size difference or *where would I see the biggest difference?*
> 
> if you error on one side is it better to error on the bigger or smaller size bike?, i know i should strive for the correct fit.


Reach and drop are where the biggest differences are. The 58 has an effective top tube of 575mm's and the 61 has an ETT of 595, so correcting for the taller head tube on the 61, reach changes by about 1.5cm's. The 58 has a head tube length of 200mm's versus the 61's 220mm's. so 2cm's there.

Where you'd see the _biggest_ difference would depend on a number of factors. Your proportions, fitness, flexibility, style of riding, personal preferences all enter into which would be the better fit for you. 

Best thing to do is get sized/ fitted at the Felt dealer and test ride each bike, back to back. If you have a current, well fitting bike, take it along as a baseline for comparison.


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## ctkeebler (Feb 28, 2012)

I did test ride both and felt more comfortable on the larger bike, this is my first road bike so what feels comfortable maynot be the best fit. As I ride the bike more I do feel tall and did notice that the wind has a great impact. I'm wondering if the smaller frame the wind would not have such an impact.

I am scheduled for a bike fit, but I have already bought the 61. I do notice that my elbows are sore as well as the space between my thumb and finger. Some people I spoke too said he stem is too short which is why I'm putting all my wait on my hands. Others I spoke too, said its too long which is why I have weight on my hands. I'll be interested to see why the fitter says.


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## jmorgan (Apr 13, 2012)

Stem is to long and its stretching you out putting more weight on your hands. How tall are you?


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## ctkeebler (Feb 28, 2012)

6 foot 1 and 1/2. 35 inch sleeve on my dress shirt. 33.5 inseam I believe, pants are not as universal length as shirt sleeves


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## PJ352 (Dec 5, 2007)

ctkeebler said:


> I did test ride both and felt more comfortable on the larger bike, this is my first road bike so what feels comfortable maynot be the best fit. As I ride the bike more I do feel tall and did notice that the wind has a great impact. I'm wondering if the smaller frame the wind would not have such an impact.
> 
> *I am scheduled for a bike fit,* but I have already bought the 61. I do notice that my elbows are sore as well as the space between my thumb and finger. Some people I spoke too said he stem is too short which is why I'm putting all my wait on my hands. Others I spoke too, said its too long which is why I have weight on my hands. I'll be interested to see why the fitter says.


If you haven't yet been fitted to your new bike, that could fix all of this, but a couple of thoughts...

That 'tall' feeling and the wind having an impact can be remedied with more saddle to bar drop. This assumes you're flexible enough to tolerate it, but as you acclimate to road riding, a 2-3mm drop (done incrementally, over time) should work.

Presumably, your fitter has seen you on the bike and we have not, but the pic below shows a near perfect riding position, but even a good fit won't solve problems with poor form, so be aware of keeping your upper torso relaxed, arms slightly bent and a slightly lose grip on the bars. Change hand position often, using the tops, bends, hoods and drops. Quality gloves also tend to quell road vibrations.

Re: the _fit related_ fix for the sore elbows/ hands, IME there's a better chance that a slight aft saddle adjustment (sometimes accompanied with a _slight_ tilt up at the tip) will move your weight to the rear slightly, taking excess weight off your arms and hands. Bottom line is, this is for a fitter to decide, but a little knowledge and taking a pro-active approach to your fit is (IMO) to your advantage.
View attachment 255739


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## jmorgan (Apr 13, 2012)

Im right around 6ft and ride a 58 and think its just a little big for me but its gotten better, I dropped to a 100mm stem from a 110mm and it helped a lot, you might try a 100mm stem also


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## ctkeebler (Feb 28, 2012)

Morgan

If you think 58 is too big for you, maybe in hindsight that was the correct size for me


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## ctkeebler (Feb 28, 2012)

I will check the saddle to make sure its not tilted forward cause me to side and putting weight on my hands


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## Tango45 (Mar 18, 2011)

Oh, a chance for all the big boys to check in. I've got a 61 F5 and had to jump through hoops to get it. People say its the biggest bike they've ever seen. I'm 6' 2", 34" inseam, not sure about arms, but most of what I wear is "long". I eat a lot of wind (read: people love to draft off of me), but that could have something to do with the 46" chest. I may be in the wrong sport...


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## ctkeebler (Feb 28, 2012)

If my math is right the difference between the 110 and 100 stem is about 4 inches? I feel pretty comfortable where the hoods begin at the handle bar. Have to measure that and see what that difference is in inches


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## jmorgan (Apr 13, 2012)

110 to 100 should be 9.1mm difference in reach which is less then 1 cm, you will be able to feel a difference though . Take it to get fit.


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## PJ352 (Dec 5, 2007)

jmorgan said:


> 110 to 100 should be 9.1mm difference in reach which is less then 1 cm, you will be able to feel a difference though . *You might try moving your saddle forward some and a smaller stem, but take it to get fit *and they will probably do this and you can see what is right or at least what feels better.


I agree that the OP should take the bike to get fitted, but no experienced fitter adjusts saddle fore/ aft to correct for reach, so it's telling that you suggested that. Doing so can alter f/r weight distribution. Reach and drop are adjusted at the stem/ bars, after sizing has been determined. 

OP: my advice is to take your bike to the LBS and discuss your concerns with the fitter. I suspect you're concerns/ issues are fairly easy to remedy, even if it means they size you down to a 58. But that's for them to decide, not internet 'fitters'.


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## ctkeebler (Feb 28, 2012)

Im am getting fit, I'm just trying to educate myself so the fitting can be the best it can be. Thanks about the correction on the stem, I was thinking centimeters not millimeters. So the 9 mm is about 1/2 inch or so? From adjusting my hand positions it seems to be comfortable about an inch closer.


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## PJ352 (Dec 5, 2007)

ctkeebler said:


> Im am getting fit, I'm just trying to educate myself so the fitting can be the best it can be. Thanks about the correction on the stem, I was thinking centimeters not millimeters. So the 9 mm is about 1/2 inch or so? From adjusting my hand positions it seems to be comfortable about an inch closer.


Educating yourself is fine, and while forums can be a great resource, some will post on topics they're not very well versed in, and that will do little but mislead you. Even members that are more informed/ experienced are limited in how much they can assist, because they don't have the luxury of working one on one with you, talking with you about how you feel on the bike or seeing you in static (trainer) as well as dynamic (on the road) positions. The moral of this story is... trust your fitter.

Some general info... Sizing a rider correctly takes a lot into consideration. Things like how an individual is proportioned, cycling experiences, fitness level, flexibility, style of riding are just a few factors that can influence whether you should be set up on a 58 or 61. When in between sizes, many fitters size a rider up because they gain some in head tube length, minimizing saddle to bar drop without resorting to max spacers and/ or flipped up stems. But oftentimes the compromise is running a shorter stem, because of a longer top tube. Too short (about 90mm's or less, IMO) might be an indicator to size the rider down. 

The opposite is true if sizing down. All else being equal in stem/ spacer set up, and saddle to bar drop increases, but the stem length also increases, which _may_ allow for better f/r weight distribution - important to get right. But this scenario isn't without compromises as well, because a too long stem (120mm +) may be an indicator to size the rider up.

Ideally, a rider has chosen geometry that works well 'out of the box', requiring minor tweaking to get an optimal fit.

Lastly, to answer your question, I'd keep things simple. 10mm's (or 1 cm) is equal to about 3/8 inch. Most riders will notice that amount of change in reach. FWIW, I can notice half that amount.


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## DIRBike (Apr 10, 2012)

Personal experience... I am 6'3" and I just debated this exact same conundrum. I never got to test ride a 61 however after a 2 hour fitting on my newly purchased 58 I am very confident this is the right frame for me. The 61 could have been ordered and swapped at no charge to me within a week had I just said 'yes please'. However, I do feel great on my 58. 

That is a sample size of one of course. Loving my new Z6.


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## ctkeebler (Feb 28, 2012)

Do you remember any of the changes they made on the 58


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