# Brake Toe in



## jwk (Jun 17, 2011)

Hi Folks, I accidentally when installing my brake pads, adjusted the toe in incorrectly where instead of the front of the pads toeing in, it was actually toeing out where the rear of the pad was the first to touch the rim. By doing so what if any consequences could have it caused if any? My guess is, it would not make any difference or would it?


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## seckardt (Jan 14, 2002)

I'm assuming this is on a road bike? If it is, you shouldn't need to toe-in or toe-out your pads. I've always installed mine parallel to the rims and never had any squealing, fading, etc. In fact (I run Campy Veloce brakes) there's not much allowance for toeing in or out. Toeing in or out is more applicable for mountain bikes (maybe CX bikes, too) since you're on the brakes much more frequently and many times braking harder than on a road bike. For MTB's toe-in helps eliminate squealing. If you haven't ridden too many miles, just re-adjust an you should be OK. Worst case once the rear of the pads will have a little more wear than the front, but for a road bike it's not a problem.


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## jwk (Jun 17, 2011)

seckardt said:


> I'm assuming this is on a road bike? If it is, you shouldn't need to toe-in or toe-out your pads. I've always installed mine parallel to the rims and never had any squealing, fading, etc. In fact (I run Campy Veloce brakes) there's not much allowance for toeing in or out. Toeing in or out is more applicable for mountain bikes (maybe CX bikes, too) since you're on the brakes much more frequently and many times braking harder than on a road bike. For MTB's toe-in helps eliminate squealing. If you haven't ridden too many miles, just re-adjust an you should be OK. Worst case once the rear of the pads will have a little more wear than the front, but for a road bike it's not a problem.


Thanks! Sounds good and I think just to make things simpler, I will keep my road bike brakes flush.


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## JCavilia (Sep 12, 2005)

I don't know what road vs. mtn has to do with it. General rule is start with 'em flat, toe in if they squeal or chatter. Whether they do depends on several factors, including caliper arm flex. Usually, a little toe-in is desirable. If your work the way they are now, fine. If not, adjust.


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## jwk (Jun 17, 2011)

JCavilia said:


> I don't know what road vs. mtn has to do with it. General rule is start with 'em flat, toe in if they squeal or chatter. Whether they do depends on several factors, including caliper arm flex. Usually, a little toe-in is desirable. If your work the way they are now, fine. If not, adjust.


I have been told that toe in helps knock off debris before they can cause things to get stuck in pads, thus scratching rims. Anyway, I included a pic of my bike and my only other thing I hate is having spent so much money on SRAMS, as much as I like them, I was better off with cheaper wheels that didn't require so much care. Every time I ride, I am fearful of getting a bunch of stone chips that pelt the carbon part. oh well


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## jmess (Aug 24, 2006)

I have been riding some Reynolds 46mm for 3 years on all kinds of roads (over 8000 miles), even some short stretches of gravel. I haven't noticed any rock chips. I also haven't had any significant scratches to the brake track but I do clean the pads and brake tracks 4x more often than my bike with alloy wheels.


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## jwk (Jun 17, 2011)

jmess said:


> I have been riding some Reynolds 46mm for 3 years on all kinds of roads (over 8000 miles), even some short stretches of gravel. I haven't noticed any rock chips. I also haven't had any significant scratches to the brake track but I do clean the pads and brake tracks 4x more often than my bike with alloy wheels.


I have also seen zipp wheels with heavy miles not have any signs of dings or scratches but my SRAM S80's seem to use raw carbon that is unfinished, making it more suseptable to chips. Well I am not going to worry about it anymore and sure SRAM knows what they are doing.


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## Kerry Irons (Feb 25, 2002)

*You've been told*



jwk said:


> I have been told that toe in helps knock off debris before they can cause things to get stuck in pads, thus scratching rims.


And yet this makes no sense. If the pads were toed OUT (rear of the pad hits the rim first) then the pad could serve to sweep the rim at first contact point. With the pads toed in, the grit comes forward and gets trapped by the leading edge of the pad touching the rim first.

That said, I toe in my pads and don't have any issues. I rarely pick up a piece of grit and I can hear it when I brake. Most often I can eject it just by pumping the brakes. If that doesn't do it, I can easily pick out the grit chip - typically with just my fingernail.


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## Winters (Dec 4, 2011)

The Eagle 2 KoolStop brake pads toe in, but there is a patented " Angled tip plow " that scrapes the rim. 
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The tip plow is on the trailing edge and lightly touches the rim first.: Kool Stop International - High Performance Bicycle Brake Pads Since 1977
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This .pdf shows the design: http://www.koolstop.com/english/pdf/Inst_Road.pdf
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That explains how the brake pad has toe-in and also scrapes the rim before the bulk of the pad area gets into the braking job...


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## AndrwSwitch (May 28, 2009)

I learned to toe in my V-brakes by putting a nickel under the back of the pad and a penny under the front. Then, I'd clamp down on the brake lever and tighten the mounting bolt.

Do it on my road bikes too. It's not much toe, but you shouldn't need a whole lot, IME.


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## JCavilia (Sep 12, 2005)

*nickel-penny*



AndrwSwitch said:


> I learned to toe in my V-brakes by putting a nickel under the back of the pad and a penny under the front. Then, I'd clamp down on the brake lever and tighten the mounting bolt.
> 
> Do it on my road bikes too. It's not much toe, but you shouldn't need a whole lot, IME.


Or put the edge of a credit card under the back. About the same net thickness, and only one thing to hold ;-)


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## jwk (Jun 17, 2011)

JCavilia said:


> Or put the edge of a credit card under the back. About the same net thickness, and only one thing to hold ;-)


yep that is exactly what I ended up doing, using a credit card


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## c_h_i_n_a_m_a_n (Mar 3, 2012)

Shimano technical document suggests to toe-in
http://bike.shimano.com.sg/media/te...0A/SI-8FN0A-003-ENG_v1_m56577569830746237.pdf

SRAM offers toe-in to optimize 'braking feel and performance' (_what ever that means_)
http://www.sram.com/sites/default/files/techdocs/my10-sram-tech-manual-rev-a.pdf

As with all things, you try them out and adjust and use as necessary ...


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## savagemann (Dec 17, 2011)

If i ever need to toe in brakes, i have a set of feeler gauges that i use.
Works great.
You usually don't need to toe them in on road bikes though.
Linear pull brakes and cantis often need it though.


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## AndreyT (Dec 1, 2011)

Kerry Irons said:


> And yet this makes no sense...


Please, don't feed the troll. This one is trying to annoy the forum members by posting this picture of [allegedly but very doubtfully] his bike regardless of what the topic of the thread is.


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## jwk (Jun 17, 2011)

AndreyT said:


> Please, don't feed the troll. This one is trying to annoy the forum members by posting this picture of [allegedly but very doubtfully] his bike regardless of what the topic of the thread is.


Andrey, you doubt it is my bike? Well it seems you are pretty immature and for me to post somebody else's bike would be pointless. I don't need to prove to you that I own it and the bike I own is not even a high end one. If I was trying to impress somebody, I would post a much more expensive bike. If anybody is a troll here it is you. I don't see how my question here was illigetimate as I am a new rider. It is too bad you have forum members like you who try to spoil it for everybody else


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## AndrwSwitch (May 28, 2009)

I think he's a dentist, not a troll.

Or both.


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## gordy748 (Feb 11, 2007)

jwk said:


> I have also seen zipp wheels with heavy miles not have any signs of dings or scratches but my SRAM S80's seem to use raw carbon that is unfinished, making it more suseptable to chips. Well I am not going to worry about it anymore and sure SRAM knows what they are doing.


Looking at your photo of your bike the wheels look like they have an alloy rim. In which case the carbon faring may not be structural, so the only damage stone chips would do is cosmetic.

With all due respect, though, I think you're being a worrywart. I'd rate the chance of you writing off your wheels t-boning a dog crossing the street as highly as failure due to a stone chip. SRAM builds pretty reasonable kit, after all.


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