# Two tube failures in a week!!! HELP...



## Pokey (Apr 15, 2006)

So I have been enjoying the heck out of my 09 Roubaix SL Pro DA. This thing just flies and it's super stable and quick in the turns with the 23c s-works Mondo clincher tires.

BUT.... I have had two tube blow-outs in the last week in the SAME spot on a route that I have been riding for three years without any trouble until I got this bike.

What gives? I just finished coming down a short .25 mile 19% downgrade that I just rode up (not constantly riding the brakes). Then I continue on down a 12% grade for about 50 yards and BAM - loudest thing I have heard in my life!!! Sounds like a gunshot and I go def for about a minute. Last week it was my rear tube that blew out. This week it was my front tube in the same freaking place on the ride and the same failure mode.

W T F ????

The rims were warm to the touch, but not hot. I am losing confidence in this bike (Wheels/tires anyway). I ride aggressively and I need a bike that can keep up with me.

Setup is: 
Roubaix Roval 332x wheels (Which I love, BTW. I was skeptical because I like Mavics so much)
Mondo s-works clincher tires
OEM Cheng Shin tubes 700x20/28 thin
120 PSI cold

Failure mode on each tube was a 12" long split down the side of the tube.

I have no idea why this is happening. My old bike had 09-spec Mavic Ksyrium Equipe wheels with the same tires (I literally took them off of the old bike!) and Specialized turbo tubes (700x18/25). I rode this setup very hard and got the rims much hotter than either time had the blowouts.

In each case, the tire bead was off the rim, but I am not sure if the tube blew because the bead came off or if the bead came off because the tube blew.

I don't know what to do at this point. I don't know if it's the wheels, the tires, or the tubes.

Intersting that it was the two OEM Cheng shin tubes that blew. When the rear went, I thought that I should replace the front tube as well (like maybe the tubes suck) but I thought I was being paranoid. I guess I wasn't.

This thing's gonna kill or mame me if I can't get this resolved. I have been VERY lucky - like I did not have the front blowout going down the 19% grade!!!!! That would have been very bad!

Any help is appreciated...


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## cyclequip (Oct 20, 2004)

Blowouts like this come from improper installation of the tube/tire on the rim. The tube is getting pinched between the tire bead and the rim hook. To prevent this, use a talcum powder to lubricate the inside of the tire and shake both tubes up in a plastic bag with some talcum powder as well. Then slightly inflate the tube before installation. When you have the tire seated back onto the rim, pinch the tire with both fingers and run this "pinch" the whole way around the tire to ensure the tube seats inside the tire and doesn't get pinched between the bead and rim hook. Then inflate to ride pressure.


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## sneyer (Jun 20, 2008)

*Rim strip...*

...I'd check the rim strip too, since you'll already have the tire off.


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## Pokey (Apr 15, 2006)

cyclequip said:


> Blowouts like this come from improper installation of the tube/tire on the rim. The tube is getting pinched between the tire bead and the rim hook. To prevent this, use a talcum powder to lubricate the inside of the tire and shake both tubes up in a plastic bag with some talcum powder as well. Then slightly inflate the tube before installation. When you have the tire seated back onto the rim, pinch the tire with both fingers and run this "pinch" the whole way around the tire to ensure the tube seats inside the tire and doesn't get pinched between the bead and rim hook. Then inflate to ride pressure.


I definitely considered this possibility. But I have not has any trouble in my 3-4 years of road riding. But yes, when I can find them, I buy the pre-talc'd Specialized tubes. Next time I can't find a pre-talc'd tube, I'll "roll my own".  I remember those tubes were particularly grippy feeling.

Maybe I am getting lazy on my tube/tire installs. I have been doing everything you describe, except running the 'pinch' all the way around the rim. I'll add that next time. In fact, I'll check the tubes/tires on there now. But now I have the Specialized pre-talc'd tubes installed front and rear. Even still, I'll check.

Thanks for the advice


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## Pokey (Apr 15, 2006)

sneyer said:


> ...I'd check the rim strip too, since you'll already have the tire off.


What would I check for on the rim strips? I have had a blowout on the front and rear wheels so it seems more like operator error at this point as much as I hate to admit it.

But I will remove and reinstall the tires tubes now anyway so I'll have a look at the rim strips too.

Thanks


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## tuffguy1500 (Jul 17, 2008)

check to see if the rim strip is cut through at a spoke hole. I had this issue, went through three tubes in a single day before i caught it!! I thought that I'd been pinching the tube on install, but it was the sharp edge from the rim tape being cut.


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## Pokey (Apr 15, 2006)

What a f-ing pice of sh!t!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Another blowout today!!!!

SPECIALIAED TIRE + SPECIALIZED WHEEL + SPECIALIZED TUBE = possible D E A T H !!!!!

Specialized just needs to give up and stop beta-testing their products on the general public.

So I spent an hour last night taking things apart, inspecting the rims, rim strips, everything. Put is new pre-talc'd tubes, airing up a bit and letting the air out, squeeze the tire to make sure the tube is not pinched between the bead and sidewall (I knew i'd never do that anyway). everything looks fine so I pumped them up to 120 PSI.

Went out for a ride today at 8:30 AM. got about a half-mile and BAM! The fukcing thing just blows at again on the rear. So this is threee blowouts in a week - first the the rear wheel, then the front, now the rear wheel again. I was going up a gentle 5% grade at the time at a very low speed (10 mph?)

After three times, it's not me, it's not the tubes, I doubt it's the tires bacause I rode the same tires for years on my old bike with never a problem (Mavic wheels), it's not heat-related because I had not even used the brakes on this 1/2 mile ride. It has to be the POS specialized Roval Roubaix 332 wheels. I think the Roval wheel diameter is too small and the bead of the tire is too loose around it. 

Specialized is not compatible with their own stuff. That's a sad thing since that is how they started their business. The put the components together they knew would work well. They cant even do that any more.

So this is what 5 grand buys you from Specialzed - incompatiblity headaches. Can't wait till my LBS opens at Noon - I am going to ***** them out good and make them fix this.

I know it won;t help the mattera any. They will likely have no idea what to do. "We'll call Specialized this week to see what they say." Maybe I'll hear back, maybe not!

I think I am just screwed. I can go plop down another grand of a real set of wheels (non-specialized).

I have no idea what to even ask for at this point.


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## Marc (Jan 23, 2005)

How much do you weigh?


Unless you're on the clydesdale end of things you have little to no business riding 120PSI anyway-less you want you fillings rattled out.


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## biobanker (Jun 11, 2009)

I agree that there is something wrong, but its not the entire bike, its either a defect on the rim, or something on the inside of the tire that hadn't been found yet, OR just plain bad luck on the last one and installation error earlier. 

Sounds like a good excuse to buy some awesome, non-posessed wheels to me!

Good luck sorting it out. I'd swap rubber with a friend for a couple rides.


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## Pokey (Apr 15, 2006)

Marc said:


> How much do you weigh?
> 
> 
> Unless you're on the clydesdale end of things you have little to no business riding 120PSI anyway-less you want you fillings rattled out.


I weigh 147. The pressure indicated on the tire sidewall says 125 PSI min, 135 PSI max.

I have checked the pressure with two pumps and find then to be within 6 PSI of each other.

Specialized does not list any max pressures for their Roval Roubaix wheels. I have certainly considered the possibility of these wheels having a maximum pressure ratings below those of the tires.

I never had trouble with these tires even at tires at 130 PSI (when I weighed 180lbs) on my mavic wheels (ksyrium Equipe). I even rode that combo more aggressively that I have so far on this bike.

I say that because there is one serious climb/descent that I did on my old bike a few times and have just not done it yet on the new bike (Montebello road). It is a 2200 foot climb in 5 miles. Good thing I have not done that yet on the new bike - I might be dead now.

There is NO WAY that I pinched the tire between the rim/sidewall on the first two. I was willing to accept that as a possibility at first (DOn't want to say I'm without fault and thse first two tubes were not talc'd), but now that it happened again, with a talc'd tube and very careful installation, there's just no way. And the mode of failure for all three blowouts has been the same.

These tires are surprisingly supple even at 125-130 PSI. And they corner extremely well, (Better than Pro3 race!)


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## Pokey (Apr 15, 2006)

biobanker said:


> I agree that there is something wrong, but its not the entire bike, its either a defect on the rim, or something on the inside of the tire that hadn't been found yet, OR just plain bad luck on the last one and installation error earlier.
> 
> Sounds like a good excuse to buy some awesome, non-posessed wheels to me!
> 
> Good luck sorting it out. I'd swap rubber with a friend for a couple rides.


I still have a set of 09 spec Mavic ksyrium wheels. I may just switch over to those. But they are a bit on the heavy side (1770). 

I have been very happy with the ride quality of the Roval Roubaix wheelset. And they're fairly light (1550) and accelerate very quicky. But I need a wheel that can hold a road tire too.


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## biobanker (Jun 11, 2009)

Of the three blowouts,

How many happened on the front on a steep descent?
How many happened on the rear on a steep ascent??


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## Marc (Jan 23, 2005)

Pokey said:


> I weigh 147. The pressure indicated on the tire sidewall says 125 PSI min, 135 PSI max.
> 
> I have checked the pressure with two pumps and find then to be within 6 PSI of each other.
> 
> ...


To each their own. I honestly see no point in inflating one's tires over 100-110PSI, doubly so at your weight. I ride my Miche Carbons at 95, and I weigh 185.

If you want an experiment: before going out tomorrow, inflate those suckers to 105PSI and report back. My *hunch* is that:

a) You'll lose fewer teeth from being rattled to death on all but the smoothest roads.

and

b) This problem won't occur.


Yes I suppose it is nice to be able to safely inflate your tires clincher tires to 200PSI and ride them...but what is the point?


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## ukbloke (Sep 1, 2007)

Did today's blow-out go with a loud bang too? To explode with a gun-shot the tube has to escape the confines of the tire and wheel somehow. For the first two one might think it could be user error with the tube being caught under the tire bad but surely not the third time. So if the third time went with a bang, there must be something else going on. I would check the tire side-walls and tread very carefully to see if there is any cut where the tube could be escaping. It doesn't take much and it might not be visible until a tube is in and inflated. If it didn't go with a bang, then maybe this was just your regular kind of puncture and not the same cause as the first two.

Also, was there are commonality in where the puncture/split occurred on the tube? If it is a tire or wheel issue this would help pin-point where to look.

Anyway, you are right to be concerned. A blow-out on the front wheel at speed or in a descent is one of the most dangerous things that could happen on a bike. Personally, I wouldn't go blaming all and sundry at the bike shop or Specialized though until you figure out what the cause is.


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## Pokey (Apr 15, 2006)

biobanker said:


> Of the three blowouts,
> 
> How many happened on the front on a steep descent?
> How many happened on the rear on a steep ascent??



One front on a steep descent
One rear on a steep descent
One rear on a very negligible ascent - not steep at all


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## Pokey (Apr 15, 2006)

Marc said:


> To each their own. I honestly see no point in inflating one's tires over 100-110PSI, doubly so at your weight. I ride my Miche Carbons at 95, and I weigh 185.
> 
> Yes I suppose it is nice to be able to safely inflate your tires clincher tires to 200PSI and ride them...but what is the point?


I just like these tires at 120PSI. The roll very fast at that pressure yet still hook up in the corners.

I don't necesarilly want to run my tires at a higher PSI. The reason why simply letting out 20 PSI is not adequate to me is because we are talking cold static pressure here. When my third tire blew, it was about 75 degrees out. Who knows what peak pressures these tires could see on a 100+ degree day on black, hot asphalt (200 degrees?), down-hill, with heavy braking getting ready for a sharp corner.

The point is that I need my tires to not pop off my rims even at very high peak pressures.


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## Pokey (Apr 15, 2006)

ukbloke said:


> Did today's blow-out go with a loud bang too? To explode with a gun-shot the tube has to escape the confines of the tire and wheel somehow. For the first two one might think it could be user error with the tube being caught under the tire bad but surely not the third time. So if the third time went with a bang, there must be something else going on. I would check the tire side-walls and tread very carefully to see if there is any cut where the tube could be escaping. It doesn't take much and it might not be visible until a tube is in and inflated. If it didn't go with a bang, then maybe this was just your regular kind of puncture and not the same cause as the first two.
> 
> Also, was there are commonality in where the puncture/split occurred on the tube? If it is a tire or wheel issue this would help pin-point where to look.
> 
> Anyway, you are right to be concerned. A blow-out on the front wheel at speed or in a descent is one of the most dangerous things that could happen on a bike. Personally, I wouldn't go blaming all and sundry at the bike shop or Specialized though until you figure out what the cause is.


Yes, another gunshot bang. I agree that this loud of a sound can only come from the tube escaping the confines of the tire and then bursting like a baloon. 

I compared the three tubes (aligned the valve stems) and could see no comonality as far as location of the split in them. even flipping them over yielded no comonality between them.

Anyway, I took the bike back to the LBS and they simply replaced my s-works mondo clincher tires with mondo Pro-II clincher tires and said they are a better design (???). I prefer a hard-fix to trial and error kind of crap. Maybe I'll call Specialized tech support myself this week.


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## PJ352 (Dec 5, 2007)

I agree with ukbloke that there's something else going on, and suspect the tires/ rims. I also agree with you that running at 120 PSI should not be a contributing factor. I weigh 137and inflate at that pressure without issues. :::knocking on wood::: 

JMO, but I've found that the 'thin' type tubes don't hold air as well as standard, so I'd consider switching them.


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## jhamlin38 (Oct 29, 2005)

I'm gonna go ahead and say that if you're inflating your tires that hard, in the air conditioning of your house, and go outside with asphault that could be up to 120 degrees, the tubes are expanding, causing the tire bead to move a smidge, and then blamo!
That is incredibly high pressure. I have ridden my GP4seasons to the threads at about 95-100 psi, and for the heckof it, road it this weekend for the last time at 115-120. Oh my GOD! Completely rock hard! My friggin back hurts now! No reason to self torture. at your weight, go down to 95-100. You'll be WAY more comfy.
I had a similar issue with flats. Even after inspecting the tire thoroughly, I flatted the next day. Not a blowout, just a flat.
I took my tire, soaked it in a hot bathtub for about 10 minutes, and then noticed an incredibly thin piece of copper wire lodged in there! I plucked it out with tweezers, and problem solved.
I think warming up the tire helped loosen it up and soften it so I could get a better feel for what was buried in the casing.
Good luck. I hope you solve your issue. And I'd go down on the psi, big time if I were you.


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## Pokey (Apr 15, 2006)

jhamlin38 said:


> I'm gonna go ahead and say that if you're inflating your tires that hard, in the air conditioning of your house, and go outside with asphault that could be up to 120 degrees, the tubes are expanding, causing the tire bead to move a smidge, and then blamo!
> That is incredibly high pressure. I have ridden my GP4seasons to the threads at about 95-100 psi, and for the heckof it, road it this weekend for the last time at 115-120. Oh my GOD! Completely rock hard! My friggin back hurts now! No reason to self torture. at your weight, go down to 95-100. You'll be WAY more comfy.
> And I'd go down on the psi, big time if I were you.


I wish I had A/C in the house!! I live in teh CA Bay area and not many houses here have A/C, Dunno why - that's nuts.

But definitely a possible scenario.

I like how fast the tires roll at 120. I have never noticed them being harsh (but then they are on an 09 Roubaix with a vertically compliant frame and wheels)

I have tried them as low as 100 PSI and the rolling resistance went up noticeably. The ride was a bit more comfy. But I care more about speed than comfort (said by a guy on a Roubaix!) But the bike is still plush even with tires at 120 - gotta love that.


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## ukbloke (Sep 1, 2007)

Pokey said:


> I live in teh CA Bay area


Which Bay Area hills are giving you all this trouble?


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## jsellers (Feb 14, 2008)

Pokey said:


> What would I check for on the rim strips? I have had a blowout on the front and rear wheels so it seems more like operator error at this point as much as I hate to admit it.
> 
> But I will remove and reinstall the tires tubes now anyway so I'll have a look at the rim strips too.
> 
> Thanks


If it has the plastic rim strip make sure it is not rolling up and sharp in the rim.


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## locobaylor (Mar 11, 2008)

Some of the tires that are coming on the Spec bikes are bad. If they don't have a "2" after the name, then they've been having problems with them. That might be while your LBS replaced them...and I don't want to assume that you're ignorant or anything, but you did check the tire after replacing the tube to make sure that nothing was still there before installing the new tube? Also, if there are standard rimstrips in there, I'd suggest going ahead and velox'ing your wheels, to make double sure. Just some suggestions...


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## mudphalt (Sep 21, 2008)

Could the tire bead just not be compatible with the rim bead arent there differnt types of clinchers ??? I know conti says that the rim must be hook bead style /??


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## wipeout (Jun 6, 2005)

99% of the time this is an installation error - not a design defect. Take it back to the shop you bought it and tell them whats going on. Trade up to some Conti GP4000's while you're at it.

Oh, are you sure you have a 09 Roubaix? In a previous thread you said:



Pokey said:


> I switched the 05 spec Equipe wheels on my 05 Roubaix with 09 spec equipe wheels.
> 
> The 09 spec are MUCH stiffer. Cornering was noticeably more stable and predictable. Can't go wrong with those.
> 
> I also highly recommend the Specialized Mondo S-Works Clincher in 23c. Something about the dual radius tread design helps the bike to carve into a corner with confidence. And the dual-tread compound really hooks up - better then Michelin Pro3 Race tires.


?


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## Pokey (Apr 15, 2006)

ukbloke said:


> Which Bay Area hills are giving you all this trouble?


Two of the times (once on the rear and once on the front), I had just climbed Alpine road (from Woodside/Portola) and had just climbed up the bonus Joaquin road (19% grade?) and came back down Joaquin and back down the first few hundred yards of alpine when BANG!

The last time, I was literaly 300 yards into a ride on a very gentle 3% grade. I think that tire with that rim is just incompatible.

I am sure as he11 glad that did not happen down Joaquin or down Montebello. I'd be in trouble. 

The LBS is warrantying the tires _and_ wheels! 

No way I am putting those tires back on those rims - as much as I liked how they performed on the Mavic Equipes for years. So my Roval rims are on their way back to specialized and I am on my spare 09 Equipe rims for now with Mondo Pro 2's which appear to have a much more substantial bead on them although they still fit faily loose even on the Mavic wheels. No levers required. on and off fairly easy.

So I rode this weekend on the Mavics and Mondo pro 2 tires. went for 65 miles with 6500 feet of climbing. went u palpinr, portole, OLH, 84, pescadero creek, stage rd, hwy 1, tunitas creek back to skyline and down kings.

No blow outs or any problems at all.

However, I will say that at the top of tunitas, I was missing my roubaix wheels. they are much more vertically compliant than the mavics and they accelerate better which I was not expecting. Just waiting for specialized to send my some new wheels and I'll put a new set of Mondo pro 2's on them. The Pro2's corner pretty darn well - very grippy.


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## Pokey (Apr 15, 2006)

locobaylor said:


> Some of the tires that are coming on the Spec bikes are bad. If they don't have a "2" after the name, then they've been having problems with them. That might be while your LBS replaced them...and I don't want to assume that you're ignorant or anything, but you did check the tire after replacing the tube to make sure that nothing was still there before installing the new tube? Also, if there are standard rimstrips in there, I'd suggest going ahead and velox'ing your wheels, to make double sure. Just some suggestions...


Yep, I am on the "2" series tires now. The casing is totally different (actualt measures smaller on my calipers) with a more substantial bead.Tes, I always check the ture when I get a puncture flat, butthis was a different failure mode. But I check this even still.

The roval roubaix tires come with a very nice fabric (Aramid fiber?) rim strip. None of that hard plastic crap found in other rims.

Thanks for the suggestions.


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## Pokey (Apr 15, 2006)

wipeout said:


> 99% of the time this is an installation error - not a design defect. Take it back to the shop you bought it and tell them whats going on. Trade up to some Conti GP4000's while you're at it.
> 
> Oh, are you sure you have a 09 Roubaix? In a previous thread you said:
> 
> ...



Yep. I used to have an 05 Roubaix. last season, I found a great deal on an 09 Equipe wheelset that was a new bike takeoff so I rode those wheels on my 05 last season. I bought the 09 Roubaix a couple months ago.

Here are some pics. Feel free to browse around my smugmug site for high-resolution pics.

Here's the 05 roubaix - I sold it with the 05 Equuipe rims that came with it so I'd have the 09 Equipes for spares for my new bike.









And the 09 Roubaix:


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