# Help me decide on a 'commuter' platform...



## Migen21 (Oct 28, 2014)

Hey all,

Looking for suggestions for re-build of my commuter platform. 

A little background.

I'm a 52yo avid recreational cyclist. I got back into cycling last year after a 20+ year absence. I had a couple of false starts along the way that resulted in losing interest due to poor fitting, uncomfortable bikes that weren't fun to ride.

Early last spring i wandered into an LBS and discovered the glory of the BMC GF-01. I won't go into a lot of detail, but suffice it to say, I love everything about this bike in terms of fit and comfort. It fits my "all day/endurance" recreational riding style perfectly. So much so that since I bought it last may, I've put over 4k miles on it and have loved every mile of it. Sadly, it's not well suited to my commuting needs because there is no room for fenders, no rack mounts, and I'd prefer to run a larger tire in the winter (32c). 

After getting my fitness level up, and learning more about bike fitting, I decided in late summer to build an all weather commuter. I l live in the Seattle area. My home to work commute is about 25 miles, almost entirely on paved bike trails. 

For the commuter, based on advice from someone at a different LBS, I built the commuter up on a 62cm Surly Straggler frame. All Ultegra 6800 (mechanical), and Avid BB7 brakes (yuk). HED C2's on Chris King R45D's. It's also fully fendered and has waterproof ortliebs on the back for dry clothes, etc...

My problem with this bike is that I absolutely hate riding it. Ok, 'hate' my be too strong, but it's just not fun to ride. The wheelbase is too long. It feels like driving a school bus compared to my GF-01 (my only modern frame of reference).

I had made up my mind I was going to have Moots make me a 62cm Vamoots DR this summer and move all of the gear over for next winters commuting season, but the price is pretty steep. I may still end up going this route, but i'm hoping to get some suggestions from folks here for possible alternatives that aren't quite so hard on the pocket book.

Here is what I think I'm looking for:


61cm/62cm road frame
Frame Material?: I have never owned a Titanium bike, although I've demo'd a few, and I think I love the idea of Ti. I just don't know much about them, who makes the good ones, etc... A carbon bike would work fine as well, as long as it meets the criteria above. I am about 99% sure I don't want steel though.
700x32c tires and fenders should fit comfortably
Needs rack mounts (or some way to mount the Ortliebs - no backpacks - too top heavy)
Disc Brakes (switching from Avid BB7 to TRP Hy/Rd)
Geometry should be comfortable (not too stretched out) and somewhat compliant, although I don't need a full GF-01 style endurance ride for these 20 miles commutes. I want something that is fun to ride (spirited? snappy?) but not overly aggressive. It should be safe to ride with the heavier wheels/tires/fenders/panniers.
Cost?: Funds are obviously not unlimited, but I'm not looking to 'cheap' out on this. I want it to be a strong, sturdy, reliable bike for a long long time...

I looked at the Salsa Colossal Ti, but the 60cm frame is too small, and I don't believe they do a larger Ti bike (only steel). I also looked at the Volagi Viaje bikes, but the Ti is only available up to 60cm, which might be too small. The Viaje XL (Steel) is available in 63cm and has all of the other requirements (except it's steel and might be too big.. no demo models to ride in my area).

At this point, I haven't eliminated anything (including the Moots DR, Viaje, and the Colossal). I'll even consider steel in the ideal circumstance.

Sorry for the long-winded thread. 

Thanks in advance


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## Peter P. (Dec 30, 2006)

You have too many specific demands to try and find a stock bike fit your unique needs.

Go custom. Yes; you will pay, but you'll get exactly what you're looking for.

Since you will consider steel in the ideal circumstance, I recommend you try Paul Sadoff at Rock Lobster. Or try someone closer such as R+E Cycles in Seattle.


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## cparrish (Jun 21, 2010)

Until a couple of months ago I commuted Kenmore to Kirkland for several years. On the high end and local I would look at Hampsten, or Bill Davidson's new shop in freemont. Keep in mind riding loaded is riding loaded you can have a 16 pound super commuter but stick a rack and fenders on it...


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## Richard L (Jun 16, 2014)

If you decide to consider steel, Chris King's Cielo bikes come in a number of sizes. The Sportif or Cross Classic might work for you. Cielo's are measured center to center, not the usual center to top.


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## jrm (Dec 23, 2001)

Doug Curtlo runs his custom shop out of Winthorp. Nice guy and a quality builder. .Curtlo Cycles - Handmade bicycles. Custom Mountain Bike, Road, Cyclocross, Tandem bikes


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## Winn (Feb 15, 2013)

Does it have to be expensive? Why aren't you considering aluminum? I ride a similar length commute on a Specialized Tricross Sport. The new models have disk brakes plenty of room for fenders, I run 38c's and have room, front and rear rack mounts, and the bike is a joy to ride. 

Specialized Bicycle Components

Anyway go ride one it's a solid bike and commutes like it was meant for it.


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## Migen21 (Oct 28, 2014)

Winn said:


> Does it have to be expensive? Why aren't you considering aluminum? I ride a similar length commute on a Specialized Tricross Sport. The new models have disk brakes plenty of room for fenders, I run 38c's and have room, front and rear rack mounts, and the bike is a joy to ride.
> 
> Specialized Bicycle Components
> 
> Anyway go ride one it's a solid bike and commutes like it was meant for it.


Thanks for the suggestion. "Expensive" isn't a requirement. However, I've eliminated aluminum as a chassis material because of my experience with my last aluminum bike, which was a Specialized Tricross Comp. 

My number one requirement for this new bike is that it has to be fun to ride. For me that means a combination of comfortable (compliant) and still be a little sporty and fun to ride. 

My Tricross was sporty enough, but it was definitely not fun to ride. The frame was just too stiff. Every time I rode it, when I'd get off, I felt like I'd lost a boxing match or something. Even on short rides. That bike just beat the crap out of me.

Also, as of 2015, the Tricross is no longer part of the Specialized lineup. It seems it's role has been replaced by the Crux/AWOL/Diverge(?).


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## Winn (Feb 15, 2013)

Fair enough everyone's body is different. That AWOL has been calling my name most recently...


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## davidka (Dec 12, 2001)

Migen21 said:


> Thanks for the suggestion. "Expensive" isn't a requirement. However, I've eliminated aluminum as a chassis material because of my experience with my last aluminum bike, which was a Specialized Tricross Comp.


You should think twice about giving up on aluminum based on that one bike. Check out the Trek 720. It ticks all of the boxes you want. With the sloping top tube, you'll have a long seat post that can be swapped for carbon. Add to that some nice 120tpi+ 32c tires and I guarantee you'll find it more than comfortable enough. Those two elements result in more ride comfort than any carbon frame can achieve on small road tire.


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## Winn (Feb 15, 2013)

davidka said:


> You should think twice about giving up on aluminum based on that one bike. Check out the Trek 720. It ticks all of the boxes you want. With the sloping top tube, you'll have a long seat post that can be swapped for carbon. Add to that some nice 120tpi+ 32c tires and I guarantee you'll find it more than comfortable enough. Those two elements result in more ride comfort than any carbon frame can achieve on small road tire.


see that's interesting my friend got a Trek a few years ago and I rode it and absolutely hated it, it was an aluminum frame with carbon forks. It was twitchy and harsh compared to my old steel Colnago. I decided to start commuting again and the old steel race bike just wasn't quite what I needed for that. I rode the Tricross and immediately liked it despite me thinking I hated aluminum. The one I ride has a carbon seat post and carbon forks with the Zertz in them and it is smooth and comfy. I use the stock saddle on it too with no problems. It is always astonishing how different we all are when we do the same things.


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## Migen21 (Oct 28, 2014)

davidka said:


> You should think twice about giving up on aluminum based on that one bike. Check out the Trek 720. It ticks all of the boxes you want. With the sloping top tube, you'll have a long seat post that can be swapped for carbon. Add to that some nice 120tpi+ 32c tires and I guarantee you'll find it more than comfortable enough. Those two elements result in more ride comfort than any carbon frame can achieve on small road tire.


I appreciate these suggestions. I've already given this a lot of thought. I am definitely not interested in another bike that I don't enjoy riding. 

Also, I'm really just looking at Frame/Frameset options to move my Ultegra 6800 to. I would consider a complete bike that was equipped with Ultegra if it was the ideal.

I'm still strongly leaning towards a Ti frame from Moots, or possibly Seven.  I'm currently pondering if I could make due with a Vamoots DR (if there is enough space in the rear stays for a commuter tire and fenders), or, if that doesn't work out, possibly a Routt/Routt 45. 

I visited the local shop that sells Seven, and discussed the options. At this point I think the Seven Evergreen would work, but all other things being equal, I have a better relationship with the Moots dealer in my neighborhood.

If I chicken out and decide not to fork over the money for a Ti frame this year, I'll probably just grab a 60cm Volagi Viaje XL (steel) frameset and ride that for a season or two while I ponder the Ti option. I really like the geometry of the Viaje, as it most closely resembles my current bike, but accommodates a wider tire and fenders. I've had the chance to ride one locally several times, and would probably take a Demo out for a few days before deciding, but that's where I'm at.


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## harryman (Nov 14, 2014)

This will do everything you'd ever want, sort of a poor mans Viaje. 

Whiskey Tango Foxtrot - Van Dessel

Although if you have the dough, custom would be a nice alternative.

I've got a liscio, too bad it won't fit you, I love mine.


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## froze (Sep 15, 2002)

I own a titanium bike and absolutely love the ride and feel of it, far superior to aluminum or carbon fiber bikes I've ridden and a bit better than steel. Moots is a great bike, not sure why you backed off on that bike, but you can find the same quality for less by giving Lynskey bikes a try, Lynskey was the original owner of Litespeed who created a lot of manufacturing firsts in the TI bike industry that others now employ, and they're all made in America. See: https://www.lynskeyperformance.com/store/


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## Migen21 (Oct 28, 2014)

I didn't back off the Moots! Either the Vamoots DR or the Routt/Routt 45 are still my #1 choice. Right now I'm waiting to hear if my my LBS can get me a demo of either.

Ultimately, when it comes time to plunk down the cash for a Ti bike, I may get religion and change my mind, but at this point I'm leaning towards one of the Moots.


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## tarwheel2 (Jul 7, 2005)

I've bike commuted for the past 8 years, 30,000+ miles on various road, touring and cyclocross bikes. I share your desire for a more lively, fun commuter bike but it's hard to achieve. Through trial and error, I've found that fenders are almost essential for commuting as well as a large seatbag or racktop bag for carrying gear. In addition, larger tires (32 mm) are preferable during times of the year when I'm riding in the dark a lot. By the time you add fenders, large bags, wider tires and your daily cargo load, any bike becomes a lot less fun to ride. 

Here's how I add to fun factor. I use several bikes for commuting, so I mix it up riding different bikes for a change of pace. One of my bikes has narrower tires (25s or 28s), and it's also my lightest commuter bike, so it gives me a nice change of pace and it's faster than my other commuters. My cross bike has 32s, but it doesn't have fenders, which makes it feel sportier. My two touring bikes have the works -- fenders, larger tires and rear racks with bags -- but have different ride characteristics. In the summer, I sometimes take the fenders off another one of my bikes, but lately I've been leaving them on because we've had so much rain the past two years.

In short, a commuter bike will never be as much fun to ride as regularly equipped road or cross bike. However, you can make it more fun by riding different bikes equipped with less gear when appropriate.


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## pmf (Feb 23, 2004)

tarwheel2 said:


> I've bike commuted for the past 8 years, 30,000+ miles on various road, touring and cyclocross bikes. I share your desire for a more lively, fun commuter bike but it's hard to achieve. Through trial and error, I've found that fenders are almost essential for commuting as well as a large seatbag or racktop bag for carrying gear. In addition, larger tires (32 mm) are preferable during times of the year when I'm riding in the dark a lot. By the time you add fenders, large bags, wider tires and your daily cargo load, any bike becomes a lot less fun to ride.
> 
> Here's how I add to fun factor. I use several bikes for commuting, so I mix it up riding different bikes for a change of pace. One of my bikes has narrower tires (25s or 28s), and it's also my lightest commuter bike, so it gives me a nice change of pace and it's faster than my other commuters. My cross bike has 32s, but it doesn't have fenders, which makes it feel sportier. My two touring bikes have the works -- fenders, larger tires and rear racks with bags -- but have different ride characteristics. In the summer, I sometimes take the fenders off another one of my bikes, but lately I've been leaving them on because we've had so much rain the past two years.
> 
> In short, a commuter bike will never be as much fun to ride as regularly equipped road or cross bike. However, you can make it more fun by riding different bikes equipped with less gear when appropriate.


I agree. I've never understood why people want to buy some clunky bike that they'd never ride on the weekends to commute on. Life is short, ride the good stuff. How is riding to work different than any other kind of riding? I have three nice road bikes. They all get ridden to work. Sometimes I slap a saddle/post that has a rack and a bag on it when I want to carry something in with me. Mostly, I just ride the bikes the way I would any other time.


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## froze (Sep 15, 2002)

pmf said:


> I agree. I've never understood why people want to buy some clunky bike that they'd never ride on the weekends to commute on. Life is short, ride the good stuff. How is riding to work different than any other kind of riding? I have three nice road bikes. They all get ridden to work. Sometimes I slap a saddle/post that has a rack and a bag on it when I want to carry something in with me. Mostly, I just ride the bikes the way I would any other time.


I believe it depends on where you commute and where the bike will be parked. For years I was able to take my bike into my office so I rode my best bike. But if someone works in a high crime area and has to lock it up outside (this is my opinion of course) that I would never take a nice bike and leave it outside with nothing but a lock to secure it. Even if they could make a bullet proof lock, which they can't, the crooks would just strip the bike, but all locks can be defeated, so if I had to lock a bike outside I would ride a beater and lock it up. College campuses are huge targets for bike thieves and the experts roam the bikes looking for expensive or vintage bikes to steal and can get a bike quick with todays modern battery powered power tools like the angle grinder. AGAIN, this is just my opinion.


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## Migen21 (Oct 28, 2014)

I'm not in a situation like that. I live and work in a very bike friendly area, and have the luxury of being able to lock my bike(s) up in a safe dry place.

If that ever changes, I might be inclined to commute on an el-cheapo, but as it is, my commute is fairly long, and includes a fairly significant hill. Having a nice bike makes it more fun and more pleasurable.


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## bigrider (Jun 27, 2002)

tarwheel2 said:


> I've bike commuted for the past 8 years, 30,000+ miles on various road, touring and cyclocross bikes. I share your desire for a more lively, fun commuter bike but it's hard to achieve. Through trial and error, I've found that fenders are almost essential for commuting as well as a large seatbag or racktop bag for carrying gear. In addition, larger tires (32 mm) are preferable during times of the year when I'm riding in the dark a lot. By the time you add fenders, large bags, wider tires and your daily cargo load, any bike becomes a lot less fun to ride.
> 
> ^^^^^This^^^^^ You can't ride with your load of cake and eat it too.


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## pmf (Feb 23, 2004)

froze said:


> I believe it depends on where you commute and where the bike will be parked. For years I was able to take my bike into my office so I rode my best bike. But if someone works in a high crime area and has to lock it up outside (this is my opinion of course) that I would never take a nice bike and leave it outside with nothing but a lock to secure it. Even if they could make a bullet proof lock, which they can't, the crooks would just strip the bike, but all locks can be defeated, so if I had to lock a bike outside I would ride a beater and lock it up. College campuses are huge targets for bike thieves and the experts roam the bikes looking for expensive or vintage bikes to steal and can get a bike quick with todays modern battery powered power tools like the angle grinder. AGAIN, this is just my opinion.


That's something I didn't think of, and I have to agree with you. I've been lucky. I've bike commuted for almost 23 years at six different jobs/locations and have always had a safe, secure place to store my bike, access to a shower and storage space in my office for clothes. I'm pretty sure I wouldn't be riding my Colnago to work if I had to chain it up to a parking meter. Not sure I'd be real gung-ho to ride 17 miles each way on some POS beater bike either.


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## davidka (Dec 12, 2001)

Migen21 said:


> I appreciate these suggestions. I've already given this a lot of thought. I am definitely not interested in another bike that I don't enjoy riding.
> 
> Also, I'm really just looking at Frame/Frameset options to move my Ultegra 6800 to. I would consider a complete bike that was equipped with Ultegra if it was the ideal.
> 
> I'm still strongly leaning towards a Ti frame from Moots, or possibly Seven.


 I didn't realize you were ready to spend at the level of a ti-frame set. I too own a ti bike and it's definitely my "special ride". 

That said, I would still strongly recommend checking out the 720. The 11-speed 105 group is awesome to ride and compatible with your 6800 stuff, the hydro disc brakes are also great, the wheelset is tubeless ready and the whole bike costs significantly less than the frame sets you're considering. Remember, this is going to be your beast of burden. A very expensive bike might lose it's appeal when it comes down to abusing it in tough conditions. I had a cross-rip like bike and didn't like it. I really like my 720 and ride it whenever the weather/roads are bad, not just to commute.

Give it a spin if you can find one. I think you may be surprised.


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## froze (Sep 15, 2002)

pmf said:


> That's something I didn't think of, and I have to agree with you. I've been lucky. I've bike commuted for almost 23 years at six different jobs/locations and have always had a safe, secure place to store my bike, access to a shower and storage space in my office for clothes. I'm pretty sure I wouldn't be riding my Colnago to work if I had to chain it up to a parking meter. Not sure I'd be real gung-ho to ride 17 miles each way on some POS beater bike either.


I wouldn't want to ride a POS beater either, but a person can find really nice dependable mid level vintage bikes to ride for for less than $350 and be more dependable than a lot of new more expensive ones today! Then buy 2 decent locks, like a U bolt and chain lock or some other type of lock, some places will allow you to leave a lock locked to where you park your bike so you don't have to carry it to and from work.


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## Migen21 (Oct 28, 2014)

I thought I'd update this thread.

I decided on the Volagi Viaje Ti in 60cm.

I took it out on it's shakedown ride this morning, about 30 miles round trip, mostly on paved trails. The bike is fantastic. A huge improvement over the old 62cm Straggler I was using. So much more fun to ride, and far more comfy too.

I moved the nearly new 6800 mechanicals from the old bike. The HED Belgium C2 Plus wheels on Chris King R45D hubs, and I upgraded the brakes to TRP Hy/Rd, which are a HUGE improvement over the Avid BB7s.

I also splurged on some new Ritchey carbon bars, and a WCS stem. The seatpost is also a Ritchey FlexLogix with a Selle Italia SMP Superflow Seat.

I still have the Marathon Plus tires on the wheels. I'll swap those out for something a little more suitable to commuting in warmer dry weather soon.

Here is a picture of the bike before the fenders and rack goes on it.

The stack is huge on this bike, and the stem is at about 35mm. It's a bit too high I think. I'll probably drop it down to the headset for the next ride and see how it feels before I cut the steerer.


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