# Contador bests Levi



## Jesse D Smith (Jun 11, 2005)

He beat Levi by 20 seconds. 
So he's shown he can gas it better on the climbs, avoid getting dropped on the climbs, pull out a time trial, and he's now THIRD overall. 
If you have a man on your team who's currently on the podium, with a week to go do you use the team to defend that man, or use the team to defend his teammate who's over a minute behind him?


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## j3fri (Dec 31, 2006)

certainly let contador go for it...


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## daveIT (Mar 12, 2004)

*I read*

Johan told cyclingnews that their priorities are

1 - Levi on the podium
2 - Contador in white
3 - A stage win

I'm kinda sick of LL. I'd like to see Contador get a podium. It's going to be fun watching him and Popo the next few years.


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## JSR (Feb 27, 2006)

Ok, you ride for Contador. I buy that.

But what do you do with Levi? He's sitting in 5th overall, not to far off the podium. If it was anyone else, you'd send him off the front, while protecting Conatdor until the final climbs. 

But can Levi even go off the front? Is there some sort of bungee cord or force field keeping him in the group of conteners?

Maybe Levi needs that ***** slap by Cher in Moonstruck. 

Smack!


SMACK!


Snap out of it!!!!!


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## z ken (Dec 30, 2006)

yup so far Contador has shown more fighting in him than LL. though i still want LL to win b/c he's my negihbor. well 90 miles north where i live to be exact. wonder what YB is going to do next.


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## Dan Gerous (Mar 28, 2005)

At this point, Levi can pretty much only go down on GC, I'd go for Contador...


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## pogie (Jul 22, 2006)

I'm sick of LL as well. He has no panache. Always crawls in at the back of the lead group. I'd much rather see someone attack and blowup than suckwheel to the line.


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## Jesse D Smith (Jun 11, 2005)

daveIT said:


> Johan told cyclingnews that their priorities are
> 
> 1 - Levi on the podium
> 2 - Contador in white
> ...


It kinda depends on when Johan said this. I don't think he was planning on Alberto having a minute on Levi after the time trial. 
Levi didn't do that bad, probably finished right along with the riders he was concerned about, with the exception of Vino and Alberto. But it can't do much for the confidence of a team when the "leader" is beaten by two of his own teammates *with yet another time trial still to go. *


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## Francis Cebedo (Aug 1, 2001)

Contador can win the whole thing. Levi can not.

Discovery will now protect both guys as their leaders.

That is the smart way to go since they don't want to put too much pressure on the young Contador and they don't want to upset the steady and consistent Levi. Levi done good today btw!

fc


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## Jesse D Smith (Jun 11, 2005)

francois said:


> Contador can win the whole thing. Levi can not.
> 
> Discovery will now protect both guys as their leaders.
> 
> ...


Good point. If they were to announce Alberto was the leader, they'd do more harm than good. They'd put too much pressure on a young rider still developing, and they'd destroy the morale of Levi, and possibly create confusion in the team.


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## FondriestFan (May 19, 2005)

I think francois is right. Contador is much more fun to watch than Levi though.


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## ClimbElYunque (Jun 21, 2005)

I think LL is holding all up for stage 33.  hehehe

He is playing way too conservative to win this race since
he is not that explosive climber. I think he is running out
time to put pressure. I think he needs make a big move
tomorrow to get him to podium positions. He needs to
show that he is contender by winning tomorrow stage.

If don't make a positive move tomorrow I am done rooting
for him. I think tomorrow he needs to make some statement
that he will be fighting for yellow.


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## bas (Jul 30, 2004)

Jesse D Smith said:


> Good point. If they were to announce Alberto was the leader, they'd do more harm than good. They'd put too much pressure on a young rider still developing, and they'd destroy the morale of Levi, and possibly create confusion in the team.



Ya know, I'm tired about all this supposed pressure on young cyclists.

They just want to "save them for later", so they don't have to start paying the rider bigger bucks when he is young.

If I was Contador, I'd watch that VS. show about how Lemond got screwed, and would go out on my own mission to destroy the field. :thumbsup:


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## zosocane (Aug 29, 2004)

IMO in comes down to this: are you riding to win, or are you riding not to lose? The podium is nice, but screw that, go for yellow! Disco has a realistic chance to take yellow with Contador. He can blitz up the climbs and take a minute or so on each of the remaining mountain stages from any of the other GC guys to put him in yellow, and I think he can limit his losses on the final ITT to the real ITT/GC threats: Kloeden, Evans and, to a lesser extent, depending on how he climbs and how much rope he is given in the next few days, Vino. I think we all agree Valverde is out on yellow unless he climbs like a goat and holds up on the ITT.

So if I'm Johan, I have Hincapie, Gusev, Popo and Levi control the pace up plateau the beille and create carnage in the field behind so Contador can attack with 5 k to go. I don't see Chicken or Evans or Kloden holding Contador's wheel -- assuming they're even left riding after a wicked pace (remember Courchevel 2005 how Evans and Kloden got dropped by Discovery???) By the way -- this is what Johan did in Paris-Nice with Levi vis-a-vis Contador. Yes, TdF is not Paris-Nice, but I think it would be effective and realistic to see Contador in yellow in Paris.

Johan has LOTS to think about before going to bed tonight!


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## Pinarel00 (Jul 23, 2006)

Agreed...Clearly the TT has made the fact that LL is an amazing rider, but clearly not a MJ threat...Contador puts a minute into him in a TT, and can drop him (and the entire field) seemingly at will in the mountains, and we KNOW how motivated AC will be in the Pyrenees, especially tomorrow....Send Hincapis, Popo, and Gusev tomorrow, protect LL and AC if you must and then make a team decision similar to when riders shake hands before a "Gentleman's sprint"....Both will attack, and the stronger man will win...

But are we REALLY surprised? LL has always been a "nearly man" in the tour...Steady, strong, and reliable, but absolutely no panache...Lets not remember, he is only the leader of Disco because the leader they REALLY wanted- Basso- was an idiot....He was a leader on Rabo and Gerolsteiner, and could do top tens, and wil the WHOLE team working for him what does he do? Lose 1 min to the younger rider in the TT...

Whatever...LL is a wonderful rider, strong and clearly better than 99% of riders on earth, but he ain't no Maillot Jaune, and never will be...


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## zosocane (Aug 29, 2004)

Pinarel00 said:


> Whatever...LL is a wonderful rider, strong and clearly better than 99% of riders on earth, but he ain't no Maillot Jaune, and never will be...


In a way, tomorrow is somewhat the first "real" climbing stage because everyone's GC cards are now on the table and we now see who is/is not a true GC contender. Like Johan would do in the Lance days, he would commit Lance to do a brutal attack on the first mountain stage to wrest control of yellow and defend from there. Similarly, it would be fun to see an all-out effort to advance Contador and launch him to the summit while decimating the field and scorching the earth USPS-style in the Pyreenes. Then limit losses in the last ITT.


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## giovanni sartori (Feb 5, 2004)

Vino will attack on the first HC tomorrow, if I'm Johan I either send Popo or Levi with him and do zero work. Contador stays with the other contenders and posibly reels Vino in, if not then Popo or Levi just gained minutes as well and you just hope Vino isn't able to hold that strength for the upcoming stages. Basically, I protect Contador at this point.


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## Jesse D Smith (Jun 11, 2005)

bas said:


> Ya know, I'm tired about all this supposed pressure on young cyclists.
> 
> They just want to "save them for later", so they don't have to start paying the rider bigger bucks when he is young.
> 
> If I was Contador, I'd watch that VS. show about how Lemond got screwed, and would go out on my own mission to destroy the field. :thumbsup:


Just checking to see if this was a sarcastic post or serious post. Lemond and Hinault were co-leaders, with Hinault supposedly making a promise to the younger Lemond. Disco has claimed Levi as their leader from the start and no promises were made to Contador. 
The young Lemond had already finished second in the previous Tour. Contador has finished 31st in 2005. It's a little early abandon team orders and do his own thing.
Disco has claimed Levi as their leader from the start and no promises were made to Contador.


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## JohnHenry (Aug 9, 2006)

the Contador says, 

*"I'm surprised by how well I performed today," said Contador, who extended his lead in the white-jersey standings to 4:28 over T-Mobile's Linus Gerdemann. "I can't believe that I finished on top of many rivals. I'm not going to be happy with what I have right now. I'm going to keep fighting. I want to enjoy this moment. Levi is the sure bet for this team. He will be stronger than me in the final time trial." *


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## Pinarel00 (Jul 23, 2006)

AC is no fool....Even if he puills a "Hoste" and rides for himself tomorrow, leaving LL for dead, he still works for Disco and will say the right thing...

Let's face it, LL could not "ride smart", "stay on wheels", "conserve energy" or "save matches" today. The man just got beat down like he stole something...I mean Koldi FELL OFF And STILL beat LL...LL just ain't that good...This is not news!

If LL wanted to establish primacy on his team as the strongest then this was the time to prove it...HE was supposed to be saving energy all through the Alps ESPECIALLY for this week and this stage....What is he saving energy for now? 

Explosive Pyrenean climbs that do not suit him, where he DEFINITELY will have to deal with relentless Astana attacks? I don't think so! I think they send Kash, Iglinsky and the boys to soften up the field then send Vino- who is now top 10 on GC now btw, and FORCE LL and the rest of the contenders to react while protecting Klodi's GC position- Unless Disco takes a similar strategy...

Listen I think that this was the race of truth for real...The Truth is that LL just ain't that good (again, relative to the insane levels of strength in the ProTour)


AC may say all the right things today, but tomorrow, he will ride like the wind and do what he has to do...He wants the yellow, and this kid ain't Lemond in '85...


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## al0 (Jan 24, 2003)

fornaca68 said:


> ...He can blitz up the climbs and take a minute or so on each of the remaining mountain stages from any of the other GC guys to put him in yellow,...!


Do you really think that he can put that minute on Vino (if latter is a good form and now he seems to be)? Or on Rasmussen, for that matter? I doubt it.


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## JohnHenry (Aug 9, 2006)

Pinarel00 said:


> AC is no fool....Even if he puills a "Hoste" and rides for himself tomorrow, leaving LL for dead, he still works for Disco and will say the right thing...
> 
> Let's face it, LL could not "ride smart", "stay on wheels", "conserve energy" or "save matches" today. The man just got beat down like he stole something...I mean Koldi FELL OFF And STILL beat LL...LL just ain't that good...This is not news!
> 
> ...


9th place and he's not that good? He moved to 5th on the GC today, from 9th. I think you may want to make a more realistic assessment. I would say He's definitely not THAT bad. The race of truth bears out in a singular manner. He is a very capable rider who not only protected his top 10 but moved up 4 positions. Not oo shabby, to say the least.

Also, if you were to read his interview. He stated, plainly, he didn't have the spark today. By all indicators, he didn't have the spark, road carefully to not crash (re: his interview), but was able to move himself up the GC. Pay attention to that last sentence, "moved himself up the GC". 
I would think saving himself would indicate a move down the GC or maintaining a GC position with +1/-1 the current position.


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## Francis Cebedo (Aug 1, 2001)

al0 said:


> Do you really think that he can put that minute on Vino (if latter is a good form and now he seems to be)? Or on Rasmussen, for that matter? I doubt it.


Contador is almost three minutes ahead of Vino. So that's a non-issue. But yes, Contador can outclimb him.

As for Rasmussen, Contador seems like the only one who can put time on him on an uphill finish.

Mayo and Valverde can put time too but they are out of the running.

fc


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## OnTheRivet (Sep 3, 2004)

Jesse D Smith said:


> He beat Levi by 20 seconds.
> So he's shown he can gas it better on the climbs, avoid getting dropped on the climbs, pull out a time trial, and he's now THIRD overall.
> If you have a man on your team who's currently on the podium, with a week to go do you use the team to defend that man, or use the team to defend his teammate who's over a minute behind him?


the course will decide, you're putting too much stock in team tactics. Neither of these riders are the favorite so they can basically ride until the race is distilled out a little better, probably after tomorrows stage. Rabobank clearly has to try to control the race as Astana and Disco have multiple cards to play. Vino WILL attack early tommorrow, will Chicken try to go with him or let the team work to bring him back?


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## howardpowered (Jun 27, 2004)

*Levi is a Loser*

His GC placing has progressed like this:

26 - 28 - 30 - 32 - 34 - 22 - 22 - 16 - 13 - 9 - 9 - 8 - 8 - 5.

He said that he would get stronger as the race went on. What a liar! Contador is a sure thing. His experience and past results make it obvious. There are only 3 brutal mountain stages and a long ITT left. Levi is sitting fifth. Everybody knows that you can only podium if you are in the top 4 by stage 13. He and the other remaining 162 riders should head home and let the real contenders battle it out. It is impossible for him to make up the 66 seconds necessary to make the podium.


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## OnTheRivet (Sep 3, 2004)

howardpowered said:


> His GC placing has progressed like this:
> 
> 26 - 28 - 30 - 32 - 34 - 22 - 22 - 16 - 13 - 9 - 9 - 8 - 8 - 5.
> 
> He said that he would get stronger as the race went on. What a liar! Contador is a sure thing. His experience and past results make it obvious. There are only 3 brutal mountain stages and a long ITT left. Levi is sitting fifth. Everybody knows that you can only podium if you are in the top 4 by stage 13. He and the other remaining 162 riders should head home and let the real contenders battle it out. It is impossible for him to make up the 66 seconds necessary to make the podium.


Uhhhhh, okay.


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## krankenstein (Sep 12, 2006)

teh moreon said:


> 9th place and he's not that good? He moved to 5th on the GC today, from 9th. I think you may want to make a more realistic assessment. I would say He's definitely not THAT bad. The race of truth bears out in a singular manner. He is a very capable rider who not only protected his top 10 but moved up 4 positions. Not oo shabby, to say the least.
> 
> Also, if you were to read his interview. He stated, plainly, he didn't have the spark today. By all indicators, he didn't have the spark, road carefully to not crash (re: his interview), but was able to move himself up the GC. Pay attention to that last sentence, "moved himself up the GC".
> I would think saving himself would indicate a move down the GC or maintaining a GC position with +1/-1 the current position.


Sure it sounds good but the thing is that LL always has an excuse of some kind, "didn't have the spark", "waiting for the pyreanees", "mechancal", "team mates" up the road... ad nauseum... The fact is he is on the limit just following wheels of the strongest, if he had the legs, he would have attacked and put time into his rivals. He doesn't have the legs, so he suck wheels. I am sure he is a really nice guy in person, but in post race interviews, he just sounds whiny making excuses of how things just don't go his way or complaining how others aren't doing their part chasing down breaks. LL is a solid above average rider, capable of winning week long races like Tour of Cali. and Germany, but he is not Grand Tour winner material. He keeps getting touted as a contender, only because he is the only American with even a remote shot at winning the whole thing, and his chances are just that, remote. 
As things stand, LL would be extremely lucky to even be on the podium in Paris. Sure he could win, but Cadel Evans, Contador, Kloden, even Rasmussen would all have to have a Jour Sans for that to happen. He is even under threat from a rejuvenated Vino, who now sits only 1:33 off of LL's time. I think disco will continue to publicly support levi, but privately... they are going to put their efforts behind contador.


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## JohnHenry (Aug 9, 2006)

krankenstein said:


> Sure it sounds good but the thing is that LL always has an excuse of some kind, "didn't have the spark", "waiting for the pyreanees", "mechancal", "team mates" up the road... ad nauseum... The fact is he is on the limit just following wheels of the strongest, if he had the legs, he would have attacked and put time into his rivals. He doesn't have the legs, so he suck wheels. I am sure he is a really nice guy in person, but in post race interviews, he just sounds whiny making excuses of how things just don't go his way or complaining how others aren't doing their part chasing down breaks. LL is a solid above average rider, capable of winning week long races like Tour of Cali. and Germany, but he is not Grand Tour winner material. He keeps getting touted as a contender, only because he is the only American with even a remote shot at winning the whole thing, and his chances are just that, remote.
> As things stand, LL would be extremely lucky to even be on the podium in Paris. Sure he could win, but Cadel Evans, Contador, Kloden, even Rasmussen would all have to have a Jour Sans for that to happen. He is even under threat from a rejuvenated Vino, who now sits only 1:33 off of LL's time. I think disco will continue to publicly support levi, but privately... they are going to put their efforts behind contador.


What would you propose one would say, if they don't win a stage? Once again, I ask. How is it whining, by stating he didn't have the spark? He still moved up 4 places on the GC. He's made the steady progression he has spoken of since le tour began. I suppose you'd like him to weep like a wee lass, a ala Vino?


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## david00214 (Jul 15, 2007)

OnTheRivet said:


> Uhhhhh, okay.


Seriously LL has represented himself well this tour and is a seasoned competitor. I still think he is the leader of Discovery.

To me the greatest rider of the tour by far this year is Rasmussen. He took the Jersey on his own with little help from his team, kept it with the help of his team for 5 days, then defended himself brilliantly in an ITT that had him riding out of his element. Let's not forget he's also in the lead for the polka dot jersey. This year, he has what it takes to win.:thumbsup:


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## Dwayne Barry (Feb 16, 2003)

teh moreon said:


> He will be stronger than me in the final time trial." [/I][/B]


Perhaps but if history is anything to go by, Levi is also certainly going to concede time over the next three stages, I'd say better than 50% chance he'll have a day when he implodes and loses lots of time. Unless Contador also goes sour, he's likely to go into the final TT with a fairly big cushion.


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## mtbykr (Feb 16, 2004)

daveIT said:


> Johan told cyclingnews that their priorities are
> 
> 1 - Levi on the podium
> 2 - Contador in white
> ...



Let's not forget that disco needs a new sponsor...and i am sure they want an american sponsorl; so having LL (an american) on the podium (preferably in yellow) goes a long way in helping secure a good sponsor!


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## mtbykr (Feb 16, 2004)

Pinarel00 said:


> AC is no fool....Even if he puills a "Hoste" and rides for himself tomorrow, leaving LL for dead, he still works for Disco and will say the right thing...
> 
> Let's face it, LL could not "ride smart", "stay on wheels", "conserve energy" or "save matches" today. The man just got beat down like he stole something...I mean Koldi FELL OFF And STILL beat LL...LL just ain't that good...This is not news!
> 
> ...



Have you even seen him climb before this tour??? The one thing that LL prefers are steeper gradient climbs (the Pyrenees). He is much better there where you can set a steady pace than in the alps where it's a fast explosive pace...which doesn't suit him. I have no idea what will happen, but this should be LL strongest part of the race coming up.


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## mtbykr (Feb 16, 2004)

*huh?*



howardpowered said:


> His GC placing has progressed like this:
> 
> 26 - 28 - 30 - 32 - 34 - 22 - 22 - 16 - 13 - 9 - 9 - 8 - 8 - 5.
> 
> He said that he would get stronger as the race went on. What a liar! Contador is a sure thing. His experience and past results make it obvious. There are only 3 brutal mountain stages and a long ITT left. Levi is sitting fifth. Everybody knows that you can only podium if you are in the top 4 by stage 13. He and the other remaining 162 riders should head home and let the real contenders battle it out. It is impossible for him to make up the 66 seconds necessary to make the podium.


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## rssljhnsn (Jul 5, 2003)

mtbykr said:


> Have you even seen him climb before this tour??? The one thing that LL prefers are steeper gradient climbs (the Pyrenees). He is much better there where you can set a steady pace than in the alps where it's a fast explosive pace...which doesn't suit him. I have no idea what will happen, but this should be LL strongest part of the race coming up.


Good point. He has won mountain stages before (in the Tour of Germany with Gerolsteiner, Brasstown Bald this year, he won the Dauphine last year). I don't know if he has enough in the legs to win the whole thing I am just kinda hoping he will take some chances and quiet some critics.


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## hacker (Apr 2, 2007)

francois said:


> Contador can win the whole thing. Levi can not.
> 
> fc



Contador has one big drawback... he's young. There are reasons that riders at or near 30 historically do well in GTs, they've learned what they can push themselves to and what they can't. On top of that, there's some measure of stamina that actually seems to increase with age (and training).

Don't get me wrong, I'd LOVE to see Contador win this thing, I just think he's got a big hurdle in front of him that Levi doesn't.


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## asgelle (Apr 21, 2003)

francois said:


> Contador can win the whole thing. Levi can not.


Isn't that what they said about Billy Conn?


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## steelbikerider (Feb 7, 2005)

Conti attacks, LL shadows Vino and moves up, possibly attacking when Vino shows a weakness(he will). Remember that Conti only has 1 GT in his legs from "05. He is young and has never ridden for a podium before in a GT. I'm sure that Disco doesn't want him to be a Cunego - win the tour and disappear for a while. 


Because the time splits are still close, the riding can be conservative. Anyone willing to attack early can get a big advantage if others are reluctant to chase unless they have a team willing to sacrifice. Vino and Kloden don't have a history of cooperating. Evans has Horner, RAs has ?, Disco has Gusev and Popo. Maybe we will see a replay of Roche-Visentini from the 87 Giro. 

Don't count LL out. What looked to be a lack of aggression in the Alps was actually smart riding. He didn't burn any matches and gained time or stayed level to all but Raz and Conti. Who were the 2 main aggressors - Valverde and Moreau. Where are they now? LL has shown to be aggressive in winning the Tour of Germany and Daphine. Also he didn't have much support at Rabo or Gerolsteiner. In the tour of Germany that he won he was supposed to wait for the German rider on the team and the German or Austrian rider was usually protected at the tour too. Rabo was more interested in stage wins and LL was pretty much on his own in the mountains. .


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## Pinarel00 (Jul 23, 2006)

*Ooookay...*

....Soooo, let me get vthis straight...because Valv has a horrible day, Mayo does his normal non-ride in the TT, Moreau gets dropped a few days back and LL moves up on the GC even though he lost all kinds of time, I am supposed to have faith in LL's ability to do wekk this week in the Pyrenees, AFTER he was on the limit defending his position in the Alps? :mad2: 

Yeah, right....

Okay, so I am not counting LL out here okay (amd that mistake once already in this tour), but seriously, if he was supposed to be rounding into form, Why does he "not have the spark today? A day where he KNEW that it was important to gain time, given the topography of the remaining stages....I think that he is superb, and granted, AC is a bit of an unproven quantity, but his climbing cannot be denied, can it? Besides, I saw him do some things going uphill in the Paris Nice this year, and I think that his explosive style suits his position on GC....

Put it this way...WHERE will LL put time into his rivals? Plateau de Beille? The flat stages next week? The final TT? is he saving matches for next Saturday? Nonsense....The man needed to show up today, and just like last year, he laid an egg...It LAWAYS happens with LL, at least he's predictable...

LL has done nothing to justify any faith in his abilities given his performances this year, or any year prior to this....Like I said, 1 week stage race? Lower level Tours? The man is money...On the biggest stage? He saves matches....

LL is good, not great, and not MJ Material....


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## bas (Jul 30, 2004)

steelbikerider said:


> Conti attacks, LL shadows Vino and moves up, possibly attacking when Vino shows a weakness(he will). Remember that Conti only has 1 GT in his legs from "05. He is young and has never ridden for a podium before in a GT. I'm sure that Disco doesn't want him to be a Cunego - win the tour and disappear for a while.


cunego had Mono before coming back.

Conti already had his brain hemmoraging problem, and has faced death in the eyes like Armstrong. He's got a hole in his skull.


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## Frank Tuesday (Jun 1, 2002)

teh moreon said:


> What would you propose one would say, if they don't win a stage? Once again, I ask. How is it whining, by stating he didn't have the spark? He still moved up 4 places on the GC. He's made the steady progression he has spoken of since le tour began. I suppose you'd like him to weep like a wee lass, a ala Vino?


Who did Levi leap frog? Sastre, Mayo and Valverde. Great time trials, the whole lot of them. He scarcely beat Rasmussen (16 sec) and lost time to 5 GC contenders: Evans, Kloden, Kashekin, Contador and Vinokourov. 

Of those who are still serious contenders, he gained time on one: Rasmussen. Hardly a successful TT. Granted it is possible that Sastre, Mayo or Valverde might make a comeback in the Pyrenees, but they'll have to do a lot not to lose it in the next TT. In his favor, three on the contenders are on Astana, and one is his teammate. If he truly does have it, Contador will be a great worker for him, and two of the three Astanas will work for the other. If he has it, he is really competing against Rasmussen, Evans and one of the Astana riders. Unfortunately, he won't know which Astana to mark. 

He may be waiting for the Pyrenees, but so was everyone else (save Rasmussen). If you listened to anyone at the start, they were all waiting for the Pyrenees. Maybe they didn't want to waste energy attacking someone who would blow up in the TT. 

Regarding Rasmussen, I think he is done gaining serious time. He may pick up a few seconds here or there on some, but I think he will suffer chasing the inevitable attacks by Disco and Astana. He may be a great climber, but he was gifted the 5 minutes in the first mountain stage. No one chased him because no one saw him as a true contender. After this TT, they won't make that mistake again.


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## shabbasuraj (May 14, 2005)

Contador is the leader, the entire team knows it except for Levi...

If he beats Levi at the end of the tour, Johann will know that this tour was a would-could-shoulda situation.

later Levi....


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## FondriestFan (May 19, 2005)

I'm sporting wood over Sunday's stage. I can't wait to see the battle.


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## Frank Tuesday (Jun 1, 2002)

And why is Johan letting his domestiques put in big efforts in the TT. Popovich is too far back to be a contender and same with Gusev. Even Hincapie was only a minute and a half off of Levi. Why are they wasting energy that they need to be saving to help Levi or Contador in the Pyrenees. After Astana's three contenders, Salvodelli was next best at 82nd place- saving needed energy for the mountains. 

Disco:6,7,9,12,25,31,102,117
Astana:1,3,4,82,112,133,136,137,144 

Bad tactics by Disco.


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## Jesse D Smith (Jun 11, 2005)

Pinarel00 said:


> AC is no fool....Even if he puills a "Hoste" and rides for himself tomorrow, leaving LL for dead, he still works for Disco and will say the right thing...
> 
> Let's face it, LL could not "ride smart", "stay on wheels", "conserve energy" or "save matches" today. The man just got beat down like he stole something...I mean Koldi FELL OFF And STILL beat LL...LL just ain't that good...This is not news!
> 
> ...


Doing anything against team orders would be a mistake. Currently, he's in good standing with the team, probably has at least two riders looking after him, and would just as well have riders watching Levi. You, me, and Alberto know Levi isn't a great threat to attack, and if Disco claims Levi is their leader, Alberto has a tactical reason to attack when the time is right. So I think he'll attack, but within the team race strategy. The question is whether any Astana rider, including Vino and Kloden would be willing to work with Contador or instead chase him down and sit on his wheel.


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## Jesse D Smith (Jun 11, 2005)

OnTheRivet said:


> the course will decide, you're putting too much stock in team tactics. Neither of these riders are the favorite so they can basically ride until the race is distilled out a little better, probably after tomorrows stage. Rabobank clearly has to try to control the race as Astana and Disco have multiple cards to play. Vino WILL attack early tommorrow, will Chicken try to go with him or let the team work to bring him back?


I think Vino would be happy to work with Chicken on tomorrows stage. Chicken has to attack or hope to catch onto the right attack. 
Let's look at the GC to see who has to do what.

1 Michael Rasmussen 58.46.39
2 Cadel Evans 1.00
3 Alberto Contador 2.31
4 Andreas Klöden 2.34
5 Levi Leipheimer 3.37
6 Andrey Kashechkin 4.23
7 Carlos Sastre 4.45
8 Mikel Astarloza Chaurreau 5.07
9 Alexandre Vinokourov5.10

If Disco goes on attack early with Poppo or Alberto, Chicken can let Astana do the chase work.
I'd think that with today's performance, some pressure is off Cadel. As it stands without the mountains, Cadel could easily take a minute out of Chicken in the final time trial. It's the best a follower could hope for. 
Kloden would have a tough time taking 2:30 out of Chicken and even harder taking 1:30 out of Cadel. So Kloden has to make time in the mountains on both of them. Maybe not to hard to take :30 on Alberto.


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## allons-y (Nov 15, 2006)

Frank Tuesday said:


> And why is Johan letting his domestiques put in big efforts in the TT. Popovich is too far back to be a contender and same with Gusev. Even Hincapie was only a minute and a half off of Levi. Why are they wasting energy that they need to be saving to help Levi or Contador in the Pyrenees. After Astana's three contenders, Salvodelli was next best at 82nd place- saving needed energy for the mountains.
> 
> Disco:6,7,9,12,25,31,102,117
> Astana:1,3,4,82,112,133,136,137,144
> ...


yes and no. 

yes - you get your domestiques tired. but honestly, its a 1hr15min effort tops, and they prbly didnt go *all* out. hard yes, but not too hard. as chris horner puts it, the softer side of hard. (or something like that). it is energy used tho...but they recover.

no - to have time checks for alberto, levi to race with. by having geroge, gusev, and popo go hard, they had the time splits for 3 riders....knowing where you had to be when, to get X time. for contador and levi thats a big advantage, they (and johan) can know early on if they need to be going harder or if they are going tooo hard. further, by having 3 guys running the turns/descent pretty quick, they can point out any trouble spots or say "X roundabout is tricky, you need to be slower than we though originally" or whatever. this gives contador/levi another big advantage. 

plus johan has said they want a stage win, so giving 5 riders a go at it vs. 2 gives them a better chance, especially when popo/gusev are both strong in the TT. had one of the five taken the stage, we would be calling johan brilliant for letting popo or gusev or even george ride full on to take the stage. didnt play out that way tho, but sometimes you gotta take that risk.

energy used? yes
energy wasted? not neccessarily


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## Francis Cebedo (Aug 1, 2001)

Frank Tuesday said:


> And why is Johan letting his domestiques put in big efforts in the TT. Popovich is too far back to be a contender and same with Gusev. Even Hincapie was only a minute and a half off of Levi. Why are they wasting energy that they need to be saving to help Levi or Contador in the Pyrenees. After Astana's three contenders, Salvodelli was next best at 82nd place- saving needed energy for the mountains.
> 
> Disco:6,7,9,12,25,31,102,117
> Astana:1,3,4,82,112,133,136,137,144
> ...


Good call. With two guys that need protection, the workers need rest today.

Also, Hincapie talks about a stage win as his goal. He should give it up. There's two guys that need work. So work.

fc


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## shabbasuraj (May 14, 2005)

Contador.. I have a feeling will own another stage, or do some serious damage to the field within the next 3 days...

I WANT TO SEE SOME AGGRESSION...!!!



basically this tour is up for grabs... and someone is gonna have to grow some onions if they want to be wearing that MJ in Paris...


maybe Cadel?


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## harlond (May 30, 2005)

Frank Tuesday said:


> And why is Johan letting his domestiques put in big efforts in the TT. Popovich is too far back to be a contender and same with Gusev. Even Hincapie was only a minute and a half off of Levi. Why are they wasting energy that they need to be saving to help Levi or Contador in the Pyrenees. After Astana's three contenders, Salvodelli was next best at 82nd place- saving needed energy for the mountains.
> 
> Disco:6,7,9,12,25,31,102,117
> Astana:1,3,4,82,112,133,136,137,144
> ...


I supposed he did it because of the team competition, where, if my understanding is correct, the car of the leader in the team competition sits first in the caravan, making it easier to get bottles and wheels to the riders. If it's not that, it must be the stuffed lions.


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## bill1109 (Feb 5, 2006)

Johan is also trying to get another sponsor for the team so I do not think he will sacrifice what so far looks like a possible tour winner (Contador) because he is young, to get a mere podium (Levi) by keeping Levi as the leader. A sponsor wants to back a tour winner. I believe Levi and the entire team knows this and they want to win, and work for a winner. Johan is a very good tactician and if Contador shows he can win Johan will surely not hold him back BUT he will likely hedge along the way since Contador is a young rider and he cannot predict everything including how he will be in the final week. I guess we will see soon enough who has it in the next three stages.


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## Pinarel00 (Jul 23, 2006)

*...Like I said Yesterday, LL is a domestique...*

_*


Pinarel00 said:



....Soooo, let me get vthis straight...because Valv has a horrible day, Mayo does his normal non-ride in the TT, Moreau gets dropped a few days back and LL moves up on the GC even though he lost all kinds of time, I am supposed to have faith in LL's ability to do wekk this week in the Pyrenees, AFTER he was on the limit defending his position in the Alps? :mad2: 

Yeah, right....

Okay, so I am not counting LL out here okay (amd that mistake once already in this tour), but seriously, if he was supposed to be rounding into form, Why does he "not have the spark today? A day where he KNEW that it was important to gain time, given the topography of the remaining stages....

LL is good, not great, and not MJ Material....

Click to expand...

*_**Ahem** Like I said yesterday:
LL? Domestique, conservative, follower
AC? CONTENDER, PANACHE, ATTACKER, CLASS!
:thumbsup: 

Okay! So maybe they will have AC work for LL tomorrow so that he can get some time on GC...Maybe now that Disco and AC have their stage win, and the White jersey locked up, MAYBE they will ask AC to work, but why? 

This exceptional race today demonstrated that AC and Ras CLEARLY are the two best climbers in the race... I know that AC is young, but the man ony had his nose in the wind for the last 5-10K today, and when Hincapie and Popo ride like THAT- and we know that they can do that for DAYS on end- Why NOT let the man go for Yellow? 

Listen, LL and AC were both on the same climb today, and when the time came to make the race, LL was the excellent domestique that he is, was, and *always* will be and AC was the Champion that he is and will be soon....Stage 14 was a Direct comparison Boys! No strategy, no saving matches, no tactics, just who can get up the $%#! mountain fastest, and AC CAN...

LL Can't

Let's move on....


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