# To Aero or not to Aero



## Rashadabd (Sep 17, 2011)

I recently got back into cycling with an entry-level 2012 Felt F85 and I am loving it and completely hooked. Felt really builds a nice productand riding is a blast. My grand plan is to buy a carbon road bike in the near future and I am really interested in aero road bikes as a concept, but not sure whether the aero geometry is really worth the added price. The four bikes that interest me most are the Felt F6, the Felt F5 (both traditional road geometry) and the Cervelo S2 (test rode it and it was a very nice ride) and the Felt AR5 (2012) (both aero geometry). I am also intrigued by Chris Boardman's bikes because of the value you get for the price, but I don't like the idea that there are no shops that sell it in the U.S., so you have to buy online without having ever rode the bike. All are pretty close in price, but the F6 is a pretty good deal. I welcome your thoughts and ideas...


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## spade2you (May 12, 2009)

I don't know if I buy into the numbers that companies are throwing at you in terms of watts saved, but if you have the $, why not? If you're really looking to get aero and already have a nice road bike, you could look at a TT bike.


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## Rashadabd (Sep 17, 2011)

I considered that, but I'm not interested in the TT setup and would rather have a carbon road bike for rides with friends etc. I would love to save the money if aero geometry really isn't worth it. I have noticed that even a number of professionals don't use their aero road bikes for every stage or race (the Garmin-Cervelo guys are notorious for this). I am just interested in hearing others' thoughts and experiences. Thanks for yours.


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## Rhymenocerus (Jul 17, 2010)

If you ride at speeds the pros ride, it may make a small difference.

But for us mortals its more marketing than anything, and since this doesnt sound like a bike that will be raced, id pass.


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## spade2you (May 12, 2009)

If you're riding _with_ people and in the draft some of the time, most of the aero differences wouldn't be as useful. At least on your own, the frame would be theoretically more aerodynamic, which isn't to say we'd notice a change in performance due to the frame alone.


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## Rashadabd (Sep 17, 2011)

Thanks fellas. I like speed and though I may do a little racing down the road (but mostly crits for fun), but you are right that racing isn't my primary goal. I am mostly interested in an enjoyable and fast ride out on my own or with friends. I want to be able to hang with experienced riders (by climbing and sprinting with efficiency) and most important enjoy the feel of riding the carbon bike I buy (even on long rides). I was intitially head over heels in love with the aero road idea, but I think I am starting to reach the same conclusion you have (that it is more hype than it is useful for most of us). The only thing that has me questioning (and which motivated me to start this thread) was when I test rode the Cervelo S2, which felt very nice and extremely fast. I am going to test a Felt F6 and/or F5 as soon as I can find one to make sure it wasn't just the carbon (which is what I think I was actually feeling), but since it was my first time on carbon I wanted to ask others to make sure it wasn't actually the aero geometry, etc. If it really makes a bike feel that much different I will consider paying more, but if the gains are only marginal for what I plan to do, then I'll pass like you said. Any of spend time riding an aero road and a carbon road bike or know those who have?


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## Kerry Irons (Feb 25, 2002)

*Aero frames*



Rashadabd said:


> I recently got back into cycling with an entry-level 2012 Felt F85 and I am loving it and completely hooked. Felt really builds a nice productand riding is a blast. My grand plan is to buy a carbon road bike in the near future and I am really interested in aero road bikes as a concept, but not sure whether the aero geometry is really worth the added price. The four bikes that interest me most are the Felt F6, the Felt F5 (both traditional road geometry) and the Cervelo S2 (test rode it and it was a very nice ride) and the Felt AR5 (2012) (both aero geometry). I am also intrigued by Chris Boardman's bikes because of the value you get for the price, but I don't like the idea that there are no shops that sell it in the U.S., so you have to buy online without having ever rode the bike. All are pretty close in price, but the F6 is a pretty good deal. I welcome your thoughts and ideas...


The best aero frames are worth about 0.3 mph at 25 mph. Only you can decide whether that speed increase is worth the $$. In a group, you probably wouldn't feel much difference.


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## Rashadabd (Sep 17, 2011)

Bingo! Thanks a lot man. That definitely is not worth it for me with my goals. First, I can't afford "the best" aero frames so the gains I might get will likely be less than that, secod even if I got that, most aero frames are heavier and I might still be faster on a carbon Felt F series because I could use the extra cash on lighter wheels, a trainer, etc. Good stuff, thanks again.


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## Rashadabd (Sep 17, 2011)

For what it's worth, here are the links to the Felt road bikes I like:

F6 - Felt Bicycles

F5 - Felt Bicycles

And the aero road bikes I have been interested in:

Bikes - Aero Road Bikes - S2

AR5 - Felt Bicycles 

You can see that the price difference is significant (at least for me) and I would rather put the money into carbon wheels or something else if aero doesn't really add much benefit.


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## cxwrench (Nov 9, 2004)

just to fix your terminology a bit, it's not the 'geometry' that is different on these 'aero' road bikes, it's the tubing shapes. they're still road bikes. if they were tt/tri bikes, then the actual 'geometry' would be different. all the bikes you're looking at are 'road' geometry...not 'aero' geometry. that really doesn't mean anything here.


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## Rashadabd (Sep 17, 2011)

Thanks for the correction.


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## cxwrench (Nov 9, 2004)

Rashadabd said:


> Thanks for the correction.


oh yeah, you're right about the S2, it is a nice bike, i have one!


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## Rashadabd (Sep 17, 2011)

That's a very nice ride. Have you ever rode a carbon Felt? If so, how would you say they compare? Do you think you truly benefit from the S2's aero features?


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## cxwrench (Nov 9, 2004)

Rashadabd said:


> That's a very nice ride. Have you ever rode a carbon Felt? If so, how would you say they compare? Do you think you truly benefit from the S2's aero features?


i've been on lots of different carbon bikes, and i don't find that there is really all that much difference in ride quality. small differences here and there. i've been on this bike for 2yrs, and i don't really think the aero shape matters much to me. if i were doing sprint tri's i think it would be a good bike. i don't do road races at all so there is no chance of me being off the front of a group for long periods. i do some crits, but i'm pretty much never alone. my main thing is track sprinting, so for me this frame could actually be stiffer and that would help me more than the aero shape. 
i have done brief rides on Felt AR1 and F1, and also the ZW. the team i work for is sponsored by Felt, so i ride the girls bikes every now and then. they seem really nice, but i haven't spend enough time on one to notice any difference in ride quality. also, whenever i'm on a Felt, it has Zipp wheels...either 101s, 303 tubulars or 404 tubulars. my Cervelo has wheels that i built, alloy rims w/ tubeless tires. any difference in frame ride would be masked by the massive difference in the wheels/tires. i'll have to take one out someday w/ my wheels and see how it feels.


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## Rashadabd (Sep 17, 2011)

Thanks for the additional info. If you don't mind me asking, given all of that, what did you think of the F1 (or the F series in general)?


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## Peanya (Jun 12, 2008)

Consider the Cervelo RS too.


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## MYMOJO34 (Aug 18, 2011)

Whether or not the aero makes any difference, That S2 and AR5 are both pretty sexy bikes.


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## JCavilia (Sep 12, 2005)

*It can't make much difference*

Keep in mind the underlying reason for the very small numbers noted by Kerry Irons above. The bicycle frame contributes only a very small portion of the total drag experienced by a cyclist. Even looking just at the bike, other parts (wheels, handlebar, cranks) make a big chunk of the drag, but the vast majority is the rider's body. The frame contributes such a small part that you would only be a little faster if you made it disappear altogether. And obviously you can't do that. We're talking about the small incremental improvement from turning a round tube into an airfoil-shaped one, when the tube is only a little part of the total drag. It just can't matter very much.

But they do look slick, if you like that sort of thing.


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## Rashadabd (Sep 17, 2011)

Great points all around. Thanks fellas. It looks like this discussion is leading me toward the Felt F5 if the test ride goes well. The Cervelo RS is too expensive for what you get in my opinion. Much rather have an F5. You guys probably just saved me money, so my wife thanks you. I'll let you know how the test ride goes once the LBS gets the 2012s in stock.


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## Kerry Irons (Feb 25, 2002)

*Alternative expenditure*



Rashadabd said:


> I could use the extra cash on lighter wheels, a trainer, etc.


Please note that the story is very similar for aero wheels - the fastest will give you 0.4 mph at 25 mph, 0.3 mph at 20 mph compared to 32 spoke box section rims. Assuming you use it, the trainer (or better yet rollers) will give you a lot more speed increase than any bike/wheel stuff you can buy.


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## perttime (Jun 27, 2005)

Rashadabd said:


> Bikes - Aero Road Bikes - S2


The S2 seems to be the same price as the R3.

Cervelo has a "bike finder" on their site, if you can find it. Maybe this link works?
Cervélo Bike Finder

It bases its recommendations on what kind of riding you do and on what sort of roads. People seem to favor the aero versions for riding hard on good roads in flat terrain.


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## MYMOJO34 (Aug 18, 2011)

That bike finder is pretty cool!

Its interesting that gender affects which series bike they recommend.


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## Dray3573 (Jun 22, 2010)

I like my F5, here it is with SRAM S30 wheels and now with Mavic Carbones. Both wheels are nicer than the stock hoops, but I can't really say whether or not the Carbones makes the bike and faster than the S30's. The S30's now reside on my wife's new Z85. I have also owned a Felt B12 and in my opinion it was faster than my road bike when I was on relatively flat ground all by myself. I have also test ridden a Cervelo S2 which I thought was a very, very nice bike. I ultimately went with Felt for several reasons, price, being the biggest part<a href="https://picasaweb.google.com/lh/photo/XeoiXsvoF9ToaB3Tyc1mAg?feat=embedwebsite"><img src="https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-W9wHTGIREp0/TYkQeogysEI/AAAAAAAAAqs/KoyysPZSUeU/s800/1000000071.JPG" height="598" width="800" /></a<a href="https://picasaweb.google.com/lh/photo/ltSIMpWG34teLluxu4_QRg?feat=embedwebsite"><img src="https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-67Gg9YXECGU/TiyylPdllPI/AAAAAAAAAv4/FYvKqyI8Cwc/s800/1000000248.JPG" height="598" width="800" /></a>


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## Rashadabd (Sep 17, 2011)

Very nice! I like that color scheme so much better than the 2012 with the green, but such is life. Not sure about the weight/durability difference either, but the Mavics defintiely look better. Yeah, I loved the S2 as well, but Cervelo's pricepoint is just a little too high for my bank account. So, it's down to the AR5 and the F5 it looks like, but I won't know for sure until I test ride both. My LBS doesn't have either in stock at the moment but they are reportedly on the way.


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