# stop lights.



## jaka (Nov 12, 2011)

is it just me that i can wait 5-10seconds for the light to turn green.but why do ******* arrogant riders cant wait for the light to turn green?makes me mad most bikers cant obey the rules of the road. Makes bikers look bad to most motorists.whats most bikers problem with not going with the rules?dont get it!
Ibelieve in wisconsin if the light doesnt change in 45seconds you may pass through a red light. And thats probabbly because the intersection has weight sensors.thats or most right turns from the right lane. Othewise no no.!


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## tednugent (Apr 26, 2010)

One word: Strava
....
...
seriously... I don't know, even before Strava... people probably want to maintain their pace.

I find it a good time for a break, then sprint practice


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## Fogdweller (Mar 26, 2004)

I totally agree with you. It really pisses me off when people blow lights and signs, even when I'm stopped at them and they blow by me in the lane of traffic. I was riding home from work when I caught a guy who warned me that there was a cop car lurking at the next sign. I told him I didn't look for cops. He asked me if I was worried about tickets. I told him that when I started stopping, I stopped looking and that he should be the same. He called me a dick so I dropped him.


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## Killroy (Feb 9, 2006)

I really think its a dick move for riders to run stop signs and stop lights. There are a lot of complaints from cars.


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## mohair_chair (Oct 3, 2002)

jaka said:


> is it just me that i can wait 5-10seconds for the light to turn green.but why do ******* arrogant riders cant wait for the light to turn green?makes me mad most bikers cant obey the rules of the road. Makes bikers look bad to most motorists.whats most bikers problem with not going with the rules?dont get it!


I think it's awesome that you only wait 5-10 seconds for a green. Around here, it's more like 2 minutes.


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## MB1 (Jan 27, 2004)

Chill.

People are people. I don't see drivers doing any better on that whole "obeying the law" thing than cyclists.


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## AndreyT (Dec 1, 2011)

tednugent said:


> One word: Strava


I notice that in my area (at least along the routes I ride) Strava has no segments that would pass through a stop light or a stop sign. I.e. Strava segments on roads with stop lights begin after one light and always end before the next one. I wonder whether it is Strava policy and whether they actively remove segments that don't fit this criterion.


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## Scott B (Dec 1, 2004)

MB1 said:


> Chill.
> 
> People are people. I don't see drivers doing any better on that whole "obeying the law" thing than cyclists.


I am constantly amazed by how *few* accidents I see. I think I see someone in a car completely blow a red light just about every time I cross my downtown. "No right turn on red" signs are apparently merely advisory. I've seen plenty of cars going the wrong up on one way streets. Etc, etc, etc.

Cyclists riding like nuts mainly makes me cringe because I don't want to see them get nailed.


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## leaftye (Oct 6, 2012)

Most lights around here are on sensors. Combine that with night riding and that means I'm waiting for a car to show up or I'm pushing the button for the cross walk...and there isn't always a crosswalk to the right.


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## Oxtox (Aug 16, 2006)

I stop for red lights, don't really care what other riders do...I'm not the bike police.

however, there is one particular light at the entrance to my neighborhood that requires incredibly long stop times for cross traffic. over the years, I've spent hours of my life waiting on this POS to change.

so, during off-peak hours, if there are no vehicles within 300 feet or so, I'll stop, then roll on thru the intersection. 

eff ewe, stupid light.


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## bballr4567 (Jul 17, 2012)

I just had a douche pass me on the left at a very tricky Y intersection. I passed him with plenty of room and so did a few other cars and this guy just flys by on the left of five cars, blows the stop sign and almost plowed into a city bus. Just pissed me off because he obviously didn't think about a car turning left could of easily ran his dumbass over.


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## froze (Sep 15, 2002)

Here is another agreeing person with you...to a point. If it's a normal traffic day I stop and wait, it's a very light traffic day and there's no traffic around then I will stop and look both ways to make sure someone isn't closer then 600 feet, 300 feet at 45 mph only takes 8 seconds, not enough time, that much time makes motorists nervous and gets them pissed off at you. However keep in mind that since a bicycle is considered a vehicle and therefore must conform to the laws of the road, if a cop sees you doing that they have every right to give you a ticket, and in some states that's a moving violation that goes on your driving record which could effect your insurance rates. So either don't run the light and risk a ticket or make darn sure there's no cops around.

Only time I do a rolling stop is when I'm out in the country and I can see for a good 1/4th a mile down the road on either side, even then I roll through the stop at about 5mph doing triple looks. But again, it's illegal to do that.


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## Killroy (Feb 9, 2006)

froze said:


> Here is another agreeing person with you...to a point. If it's a normal traffic day I stop and wait, it's a very light traffic day and there's no traffic around then I will stop and look both ways to make sure someone isn't closer then 600 feet, 300 feet at 45 mph only takes 8 seconds, not enough time, that much time makes motorists nervous and gets them pissed off at you. However keep in mind that since a bicycle is considered a vehicle and therefore must conform to the laws of the road, if a cop sees you doing that they have every right to give you a ticket, and in some states that's a moving violation that goes on your driving record which could effect your insurance rates. So either don't run the light and risk a ticket or make darn sure there's no cops around.
> 
> Only time I do a rolling stop is when I'm out in the country and I can see for a good 1/4th a mile down the road on either side, even then I roll through the stop at about 5mph doing triple looks. But again, it's illegal to do that.



I agree with that.


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## Oxtox (Aug 16, 2006)

8 seconds is an eternity...I can easily cross the 5 lanes of traffic at my nemesis light in that amount of time.

maybe you guys have really slow reflexes or weak legs.


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## Mr. Versatile (Nov 24, 2005)

Try this: Sit erect on a firm chair with both feet flat on the floor & your hands resting on your thighs. Take 3 very deep breaths in through the nose-out through the mouth. Breathe steadily through your nose & repeat softly 10 times:
I cannot control what other people do
I cannot control what other people do
I cannot control wha....


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## wooglin (Feb 22, 2002)

I stop for green lights, wait til they turn red, then run'em.


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## jaka (Nov 12, 2011)

You know their really are alot of jerk cycilists out their aren't their just what i thought!


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## froze (Sep 15, 2002)

Oxtox said:


> 8 seconds is an eternity...I can easily cross the 5 lanes of traffic at my nemesis light in that amount of time.
> 
> maybe you guys have really slow reflexes or weak legs.



Yes 8 seconds is enough for you and I, but I wasn't talking about you and I, I was talking about pissing off a motorist, and for most motorists 8 seconds can be agitation time for them. You need to show a bit more courtesy to drivers, their already pissed off at cyclists so why agitate them further just because you don't have the patience to wait? And legally you're suppose to wait.


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## velodog (Sep 26, 2007)

wooglin said:


> I stop for green lights, wait til they turn red, then run'em.


So who's gonna be more pissed off, the guy in the car who already wants to run us over or the nanny cyclists that think we can make him like us?


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## bigbill (Feb 15, 2005)

Two weeks ago I was riding the MUT over in Snohomish, WA. It's flat with a nice surface and only the occassional jogger, just what my rehabbing knee needs. For the most part, the roads crossing the MUT have stop signs for the cars, but there are about half a dozen stop signs for bikes on the MUT. As I was slowing down approaching a stop sign, a group (who rides in a group on a MUT?) behind me starting yelling at me to move out of the way if I was going to stop. I stopped at the stop sign at a slight angle to partially block the MUT and fiddled with my computer just long enough to make them stop.


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## wooglin (Feb 22, 2002)

bigbill said:


> I stopped at the stop sign at a slight angle to partially block the MUT and fiddled with my computer just long enough to make them stop.


Meanie.


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## MB1 (Jan 27, 2004)

bigbill said:


> Two weeks ago I was riding the MUT over in Snohomish, WA. It's flat with a nice surface and only the occassional jogger, just what my rehabbing knee needs. For the most part, the roads crossing the MUT have stop signs for the cars, but there are about half a dozen stop signs for bikes on the MUT. As I was slowing down approaching a stop sign, a group (who rides in a group on a MUT?) behind me starting yelling at me to move out of the way if I was going to stop. I stopped at the stop sign at a slight angle to partially block the MUT and fiddled with my computer just long enough to make them stop.


You must spread some Reputation around before giving it to bigbill again. :mad2:


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## axlenut (Sep 28, 2010)

leaftye said:


> Most lights around here are on sensors. Combine that with night riding and that means I'm waiting for a car to show up or I'm pushing the button for the cross walk...and there isn't always a crosswalk to the right.


+ 1 same thing around here. There are some with sensors that are setup for cyclist and I don't mind waiting at those but the ones that never change unless a 4000 SUV sit over them, I stop look both ways and if clear I'm going.


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## Steve B. (Jun 26, 2004)

I commute partly in the NYC boroughs of Queens and Brooklyn. For some unknown reason, NYC has installed an ungodly number of traffic lights in the dumbest locations. They have stop lights on streets where the crossing street is a dead end. They have stop lights on one-way streets that would be far better served by a stop sign. They have traffic lights on bike paths that no-one pays attention to. They have stop lights in the middle of a road with no crossing streets, merely to slow traffic (OK, that ones not so bad).

It makes me wonder about all that smog produced by cars idling at a stupid light. It makes me wonder about the electricity used, not to mention the cost of the bloody lights as well as installation and maintenance.

That said, if I waited for every light that turned red against me or was red when I rolled to the intersection, my commute would easily take an extra 1/2 hr. It's 2 hrs; already, one-way. If I had to wait at all these absurd locations, I wouldn't bike commute. I'd drive and that's not the objective.

I run the lights (at appropriate locations and moments) and if the motorists hate it, too friggin bad. 

You have to realize that in the USA, motorists HATE cyclists. Your very presence in the road annoys a driver. Your not stopping at red lights and stop signs is only an excuse to hate us more and they are not going to suddenly get all warm and fuzzy about all those folks helping the environment and staying fit because they waited at the red lights. You can wait in line at a red light like a good sheep and the minute you take the lane to ride safely, they will hate you.

Cynical rant over.


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## velodog (Sep 26, 2007)

Steve B. said:


> You have to realize that in the USA, motorists HATE cyclists. Your very presence in the road annoys a driver. Your not stopping at red lights and stop signs is only an excuse to hate us more and they are not going to suddenly get all warm and fuzzy about all those folks helping the environment and staying fit because they waited at the red lights. You can wait in line at a red light like a good sheep and the minute you take the lane to ride safely, they will hate you.


Yep, I couldn't agree more.


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## froze (Sep 15, 2002)

velodog said:


> So who's gonna be more pissed off, the guy in the car who already wants to run us over or the nanny cyclists that think we can make him like us?


I'm surprise you even ride a bike! I mean after all the entire motoring public is out to kill you!!!


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## velodog (Sep 26, 2007)

froze said:


> I'm surprise you even ride a bike! I mean after all the entire motoring public is out to kill you!!!


I ain't afraid.

So I exaggerate.
The truth is that I think that most motorists do not have a problem with us, but the ones that do want to run us over will continue to feel that way no matter what we do. Now, that being said, I'm not going to change my habits to try and appease some clown who isn't going to be happy with anything I do.
Others can do as they see fit but I don't think that it'll change anything.


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## froze (Sep 15, 2002)

velodog said:


> I ain't afraid.
> 
> So I exaggerate.
> The truth is that I think that most motorists do not have a problem with us, but the ones that do want to run us over will continue to feel that way no matter what we do. Now, that being said, I'm not going to change my habits to try and appease some clown who isn't going to be happy with anything I do.
> Others can do as they see fit but I don't think that it'll change anything.



To this I agree, most motorists do not have a problem with us being on the road. But I disagree...sort of...that there are motorists who want to run us over. Lets say 1% of the driving public hate cyclists of any kind, probably 98% of those only want to scare us and not kill us, the other 2% of those are the ones that are just plain psycho, but those characters would probably kill anyone given the right circumstances. I'm just throwing numbers out, I don't have any studies to prove those percentages, but I think I'm close based on my experience. 

I've been riding for 40 years, and in that time I can count on maybe at the most 5 or 6 times I ran into a sketchy situation, and only once I a guy purposely tried to hurt me...but failed, and I've ridden in major cities like Los Angeles just to name one.

However with all of that in mind I know countless people who hate cyclists...rather more accurately, they hate the way we cheat laws and put ourselves into situations that could make a motorist hit us. Most people don't want to kill another person, and that applies while driving a car, they don't want to kill us, but what they want is for us to obey the rules of the road, be predictable, be noticeable, and show courtesy towards them. If we can get past our elitist attitudes and show them respect, that would go a long ways toward getting respect from them...but after years of elitist attitudes from cyclists is going to take years for them to gain our trust back, but we need to start trying a lot more.


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## jaka (Nov 12, 2011)

Thats all tuff guy talk. Lets just hate everybody. Even i have run stop lights and signs. But i dont think youd be talking so tuff if it was about running lights in cars! and i know people do that to. But like you guys their morons.


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## Oxtox (Aug 16, 2006)

froze said:


> Yes 8 seconds is enough for you and I, but I wasn't talking about you and I, I was talking about pissing off a motorist, and for most motorists 8 seconds can be agitation time for them. You need to show a bit more courtesy to drivers, their already pissed off at cyclists so why agitate them further just because you don't have the patience to wait? And legally you're suppose to wait.


and you need to learn that unsupported conjecture is just another form of bs.

what study confirms your contention that motorists regard 8 seconds as a critical amount of time to become agitated? 

oh, right, none do. it's just something you made up.

and fyi, I'm not the ambassador to Motoristylvania.

thanks for the legal advice, mom.


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## binorx (Jun 12, 2011)

+1 to froze's post. Well said sir


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## froze (Sep 15, 2002)

Oxtox;4133314
thanks for the legal advice said:


> Any time my little child.


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## velodog (Sep 26, 2007)

jaka said:


> But like you guys their morons.


I think what you mean is "But like you guys they're morons."

So maybe that makes you a moron too.


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## jaka (Nov 12, 2011)

Whatever you say your the boss


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## Oxtox (Aug 16, 2006)

jaka said:


> Whatever you say your the boss


keep digging...hole's not quite deep enough.


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## jaka (Nov 12, 2011)

Im glad i got one of those automatic light changers now.i dont have to talk about it anymore!t


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## velodog (Sep 26, 2007)

jaka said:


> Whatever you say your the boss


I think what you mean is "Whatever you say, you're the boss." 
So I guess that while I've been promoted to the boss, you're still a moron.


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