# This Saturday: pre-ride TOC Stage 3?



## ukbloke (Sep 1, 2007)

*Saturday 3/13/2010: pre-ride TOC Stage 3?*

Is anyone interested in a ride this coming Saturday? I'm thinking of heading out to the coast to pre-ride parts of the Tour of California Stage 3 route. One idea is to start in Santa Cruz and head up Highway 1 (into the wind), and then pick-up the TOC route starting at Tunitas Creek. It's a long way but just about do-able in a day. There are other less ambitious options of course. Anyone?


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## sometimerider (Sep 21, 2007)

Very tempting. Although I would be left way behind - even before you start climbing. Here's a proposed map for you (no guarantees about the accuracy of the return to Santa Cruz). Whoa! 124 miles - way more than I would do (with the required climbing).

And our (SCruz County) club ride is Mt. Diablo, which we do only once per year - I will probably do that (plenty hard enough).


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## ukbloke (Sep 1, 2007)

Cool - thanks for the map! Yup, it's a metric double. Personally I can deal with the climbing, it's the headwind on Highway 1 that has me concerned and looking for company!


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## sometimerider (Sep 21, 2007)

ukbloke said:


> Cool - thanks for the map! Yup, it's a metric double. Personally I can deal with the climbing, it's the headwind on Highway 1 that has me concerned and looking for company!


Normally there is little to no headwind when heading north before about 11am. And after noon, you should have a tailwind heading south.

Regardless, it would be best to have riding partners for a ride this epic.


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## ukbloke (Sep 1, 2007)

sometimerider said:


> Normally there is little to no headwind when heading north before about 11am. And after noon, you should have a tailwind heading south.
> 
> Regardless, it would be best to have riding partners for a ride this epic.


Cool, that's welcome news, thanks. I have one victim, errr, volunteer signed up now so at least I won't be on my own!


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## ratpick (Jul 31, 2008)

ukbloke said:


> Cool, that's welcome news, thanks. I have one victim, errr, volunteer signed up now so at least I won't be on my own!


hey, I resemble that remark!

Going to be fun. If there's a headwind, I'm attaching myself to ukbloke's wheel since he's shown us he can pump out the watts on the tough miles


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## ukbloke (Sep 1, 2007)

Anyone else? If you want your butt to be forever immortalized on youtube, this is the ride to go on!

The weather is looking pretty good - mostly sunny, high 50s, low winds. I'm favouring a Santa Cruz start so that we can get the northbound Highway 1 miles over and done with.


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## Dr_John (Oct 11, 2005)

Thinking about it. What's the route, the one sometimebiker posted?



> Normally there is little to no headwind when heading north before about 11am. And after noon, you should have a tailwind heading south.


I agree that that's usually the case, but all week I've been dealing with some nasty headwinds from the north on my morning commute along the Bay.


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## ratpick (Jul 31, 2008)

Dr_John said:


> Thinking about it. What's the route, the one sometimebiker posted?
> 
> I agree that that's usually the case, but all week I've been dealing with some nasty headwinds from the north on my morning commute along the Bay.


That seems about what ukbloke suggested. I'd suggest some detours off Hwy 1 on the way north but this is already 124 miles.

How about OLH instead of 84? I know, sadly, not the TOC route but a quieter, safer climb than 84 when you don't have the road blocked for you! On the other hand, we'll have safety in numbers.

Looking forward to Bonny Doon and Empire Grade.. have done neither.. I believe 50+ should be easily achievable on Empire!


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## ukbloke (Sep 1, 2007)

ratpick said:


> That seems about what ukbloke suggested. I'd suggest some detours off Hwy 1 on the way north but this is already 124 miles.


Indeed, that's what I'm thinking. It will sure be bizarre to start in Santa Cruz and end up passing through Woodside!



ratpick said:


> How about OLH instead of 84? I know, sadly, not the TOC route but a quieter, safer climb than 84 when you don't have the road blocked for you! On the other hand, we'll have safety in numbers.


OLH is infinitely preferable. However, I have an ulterior motive for sticking to the TOC route. We could go separate ways at that point and meet back up at Alice's.


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## ukbloke (Sep 1, 2007)

Dr_John said:


> Thinking about it. What's the route, the one sometimebiker posted?


That's it. It would be great to have you on board. It is going to be an epic ride!


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## poff (Jul 21, 2007)

The root is pretty close to SCMC, not? I remember climbing Bonny Doon on the way back. It has some steap parts and farely long. You can hit 50+ descending it. Have a good ride!


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## sometimerider (Sep 21, 2007)

poff said:


> The root is pretty close to SCMC, not? I remember climbing Bonny Doon on the way back. It has some steap parts and farely long. You can hit 50+ descending it. Have a good ride!


The only part it shares with the Santa Cruz Mtn Challenge 100M route is a bit of Hwy 1, the ascent of Bonny Doon, part of the Empire Grade descent, and West Cliff Dr. 20-30 miles?


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## ratpick (Jul 31, 2008)

ukbloke said:


> Indeed, that's what I'm thinking. It will sure be bizarre to start in Santa Cruz and end up passing through Woodside!
> 
> 
> 
> OLH is infinitely preferable. However, I have an ulterior motive for sticking to the TOC route. We could go separate ways at that point and meet back up at Alice's.


Actually, if there's a good reason to climb 84, I'm in. It's probably something I'll never do again so why not?


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## ukbloke (Sep 1, 2007)

ratpick said:


> Actually, if there's a good reason to climb 84, I'm in. It's probably something I'll never do again so why not?


We'll have plenty of time on Highway 1 for me to explain the reason, and then you can decide if it's a good one or not! But you're right, it's a hill and not a bad one, nobody in their right mind climbs it because of the traffic and the OLH alternate, so why not just do it the once! Similarly, I once drove my car up OLH and that now seems sacrilegious!


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## Blue CheeseHead (Jul 14, 2008)

Ukbloke, sorry for a slight hijack, but your videos are awesome. What program do you use to embed the telemetry? I just bought a ContourHD and have an older wired power tap and a Garmin 305. Will the program you have merge all that? Thanks.

I wish I could join you guys on the ride, but even if I were in the area judging from your power output I would be dropped in short order.


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## ukbloke (Sep 1, 2007)

Blue CheeseHead said:


> Ukbloke, sorry for a slight hijack, but your videos are awesome. What program do you use to embed the telemetry? I just bought a ContourHD and have an older wired power tap and a Garmin 305. Will the program you have merge all that? Thanks.
> 
> I wish I could join you guys on the ride, but even if I were in the area judging from your power output I would be dropped in short order.


Thanks for the feedback!

The devices I'm using to gather the data are also a Garmin Edge 305 for GPS and cadence, and a wired Cycleops PowerTap rear wheel for power and heart-rate. The software to generate the telemetry overlay is my own. I'm working on it in my spare time. It is close to being feature complete in terms of the data processing, but I need to do a bit more work to add a GUI and make it into something that other people could use.

You can merge your data using off the shelf software already. Use GoldenCheetah to download your power data and export it to CSV. Use SportTracks to download the Edge data, and then import the CSV file and apply it to the same activity. You need to start the 2 devices in sync but after that the data will stay in sync pretty well.

As for the power output, this is very early season for me and I don't yet have the conditioning to be riding at the front end of the Noon ride. I burnt through all my matches in short order knowing that the entire ride would come by me, and make for more interesting footage!


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## ukbloke (Sep 1, 2007)

Let me add a bit more detail to the plan. If any of this doesn't work for you, let me know and we'll fix it.

My suggestion is to aim for 9am start. A reasonable place to start is to park near to Natural Bridges State Park in Santa Cruz. Specifically, to use street parking on side of Swanton Road between Modesto Ave and W. Cliff. This is where the Santa Cruz Cycling Club meets up for rides heading up the coast from Santa Cruz. I'm guessing that their are restrooms inside the State Park.

The route is to head North up Highway 1 until we reach Tunitas Creek and then turn off and pick up the TOC route described here. In summary:

Climb Tunitas Creek
Descend Kings Mountain into Woodside
Climb 84 to Skyline
Descend 84 to La Honda
Pescadero Road over Haskins Hill
Left onto Butano Cutoff
Left onto Cloverdale Rd
Right on Gazos Creek Rd
Left on Highway 1
Left on Bonny Doon
Straight onto Pine Flat
Right on Empire Grade and descend to Santa Cruz
Mission Street back to start

This is close to 125 miles, 200km. I'm guessing 8-9 hours on the road including stops.

Possible stops include:

San Gregorio General Store (detour on 84, return on Stage)
Roberts Market in Woodside (or Alice's on 84 and Skyline)
Store in Davenport


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## CHL (Jun 24, 2005)

Hi UK:

Good golly, your fitness has returned from its Tahitian holiday. The ride north on Highway 1 may take a lot out of you if their is a strong headwind. 

That ride has a "fair number" of climbs. I would be very careful if you plan on riding Highway 84 up to Skyline from the eastern side. I has too much traffic during mid day hours. I would try a different route like Old La Honda and catch up Highway 84 on the western side. It's longer but it's far safer. I know that you might have quite a few riders but that will just give justification to the yahoo drivers to try something "dangerous." You would need to be on Highway 84 before 9:00AM to avoid any amount of traffic.

I don't think I'll have much problems up until about 80 miles but after that I'll be calling the Camion Balai. Safe & happy riding.

CHL


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## sometimerider (Sep 21, 2007)

ukbloke said:


> My suggestion is to aim for 9am start. A reasonable place to start is to park near to Natural Bridges State Park in Santa Cruz. Specifically, to use street parking on side of Swanton Road between Modesto Ave and W. Cliff. This is where the Santa Cruz Cycling Club meets up for rides heading up the coast from Santa Cruz. I'm guessing that their are restrooms inside the State Park.


Actually we usually park on Delaware Ave. near the north ped/bike entrance to the park. Yes, there are toilets and water in the largest building just to the southwest of the green arrow on this map.



> Possible stops include:
> 
> San Gregorio General Store (detour on 84, return on Stage)
> Roberts Market in Woodside (or Alice's on 84 and Skyline)
> Store in Davenport


You'll be going right by the Tunitas Bike Hut. Water, at least, should be available. There is also the Gazos Creek Grill, on Hwy 1 at Gazos Creek Road. I don't think there is anything like a market in Davenport; there are a few restaurants - like the Whale City Bakery & Grill. (But you're only about 10 miles from the end in Santa Cruz, which has plenty of facilities.)


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## ratpick (Jul 31, 2008)

sometimerider said:


> Actually we usually park on Delaware Ave. near the north ped/bike entrance to the park. Yes, there are toilets and water in the largest building just to the southwest of the green arrow on this map.
> 
> 
> You'll be going right by the Tunitas Bike Hut. Water, at least, should be available. There is also the Gazos Creek Grill, on Hwy 1 at Gazos Creek Road. I don't think there is anything like a market in Davenport; there are a few restaurants - like the Whale City Bakery & Grill. (But you're only about 10 miles from the end in Santa Cruz, which has plenty of facilities.)



For the Garmin-enabled... http://bikeroutetoaster.com/Course.aspx?course=108552

I'm thinking some pacelining up Hwy 1 should hopefully reduce the impact of any headwind, a water/rest stop at the Bike Hut on Tunitas Creek Rd, a lunch stop at Sky Londa (mmm.. Devil's Canyon Full Boar Scotch Ale is on tap at Alice's - just sayin!), another water stop on Gazos Creek Rd and that will probably do us.

I figure close to 8 hours riding on this route which limits us to about 90 mins of stops to beat sunset at 6:13pm. I guess that rules out alice's


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## ukbloke (Sep 1, 2007)

Thanks for all the route input!

Weather forecast for 9am at Santa Cruz is partly cloudy, 47 degrees, and an 8mph northerly wind (i.e. headwind). It'll warm up to mid 50s and mostly sunny by the afternoon. Bring some warm layers!

I got the parking location off the Santa Cruz Cycling Club web-site. If there's no spaces use Delaware. My car is the red 4Runner - pretty easy to spot.


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## Dr_John (Oct 11, 2005)

OK, I'll be there. A reasonable start time for those of us heading down from San Mateo. Don't think I'll have time to change the crank on my Tarmac, so I'll be there on my Roubaix.  

I'm going to pass on riding up 84 east (did it once; too dangerous for me), so I'll take the OLH shunt and we can regroup at the top. I really wish the ToC route had stuck to the rumored run up Page Mill.

I definitely plan to be there and on time, but if you're all departing and I'm not there, please give me a call on my cell. I doubt I could chase you guys down, and don't want to try it by myself.

So you there.


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## ukbloke (Sep 1, 2007)

Awesome - so far Dr_John, ratpick and myself are confirmed. I'm sure we all plan to be there on time, but stuff happens. I suggest we wait for all three of us to show, unless we hear otherwise by cell phone or text message. I have both your numbers, and you should have mine. I can't car-pool because of other commitments. It turns out that you two are actually pretty close to each other.

As for the dreaded 84 east, I'll decide at the time. I can always go back and bag it another day.


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## Tort (Nov 4, 2008)

Sounds like an epic ride for sure. You guys should have a great time. I would throw my 2 cents worth in and suggest avoiding the east side 84 climb, just too much traffic. OLH would be much safer and more enjoyable.


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## ukbloke (Sep 1, 2007)

Tort said:


> Sounds like an epic ride for sure. You guys should have a great time. I would throw my 2 cents worth in and suggest avoiding the east side 84 climb, just too much traffic. OLH would be much safer and more enjoyable.


It sounds like we need a police escort to attempt east 84. If we do switch, that will be my 60'th ascent of OLH!


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## ukbloke (Sep 1, 2007)

Wow, what a pretty day! I'm stoked!


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## Dr_John (Oct 11, 2005)

Sure beats yesterday. But brrrrrr...............! 

See you there.


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## sometimerider (Sep 21, 2007)

Dr_John said:


> Sure beats yesterday. But brrrrrr...............!


It was super cold out near Diablo (and much worse on top & coming down). Sun (thanks be), wind, and cold air. Not bad, if you're dressed for it (which I rarely am).

Hope it was good for you folks on the coast. We want to hear about it.


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## ukbloke (Sep 1, 2007)

sometimerider said:


> Hope it was good for you folks on the coast. We want to hear about it.


We survived, but ouch, I hurt everywhere! More later ...


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## ratpick (Jul 31, 2008)

Well, that was an awesome, awesome ride. No photos sadly although it was a very beautiful day.

I have nothing but admiration for the ToC riders who sprint up Bonny Doon Rd after already completing 100 miles. We did it too.. all but the sprint part!

ukbloke - you are hereby banned from ever mentioning my Garmin 705. Many months of corrupt-free rides and today it corrupted.  Easy fix but it missed the whole of the Bonny Doon climb (hmm.. maybe that's not a bad thing 

121 miles, 9700' climbing. 

Starting from Natural Bridges SP it quickly became clear that ukbloke and Dr_John were going to cause me some pain today. I hung on nearly all the time, causing ukbloke to mercifully slow the speed (thanks  The 40 miles to Tunitas Creek Rd was painful with the headwind. Didn't seem to slow Dr_John down though!

First stop at the Bike Hut for water and a brief rest then ukbloke turned on the camera and up Tunitas we went. I lead out and was passed after about 15 secs (but hey, I'll be in the video  and was gradually dropped the whole climb. I was able to keep the dynamic duo in my sights for about half the climb and came in about 2:30 mins slower. I'll take it 

Descending Kings Mtn Rd was fun as always, although a few spots needed caution because of wet road. 

Once we got to the 84/Portola Rd intersection, Dr_John didn't want to get himself killed by traffic on 84 and took off for OLH. ukbloke and I ascended 84 at a steady, but definitely relaxed pace. Traffic actually wasn't too bad - the car passing us the closest was unbelievably a CHP cruiser! Nevertheless, I wouldn't recommend this climb over OLH - but I can check it off my list now 

Lunch at Sky Londa market, warming up nicely in the sun then a very chilly descent down 84 to La Honda. Left turn then climb Haskins Hill. Here I sensed legs were getting weary because I was able to stay with ukbloke and Dr_John on the climb... awesome, my strategy was working (finish strong)  ukbloke lead the way down the Pescadero Rd descent to Cloverdale Rd.

Anyone note that the mammoth has been pushed over? Is mammoth-tipping a new sport?

Now the wind was at our tail and I felt it was my time to take the lead  We motored along Cloverdale and Gazos Creek (nice roads) to Highway 1 and turned south. 

I stayed in the lead on Highway 1 south (again - wind at our back  and we kept a good pace down to Davenport. Watered there and made plans.. we had just enough time to climb Bonny Doon and descend to Santa Cruz in the remaining daylight. We were right at the 100 mile mark (more for Dr_John) and tired and sore but ukbloke and I were thinking "well, we're here - we have to do it, no matter how much it hurts". After I quizzed ukbloke to see if he had any hammer left in him (no), we decided to have a go at it and Dr_John found the 15 or so downwind miles to the cars irresistible!

Bonny Doon was pain.. we didn't really have much idea what to expect except "it's like Tunitas Creek Rd". The steep part comes right at the start and goes on for a long time. I did some quick calculations in my head and figured it had to level out since a min 10% grade would get us to 2200' in about 4 miles and this was longer. Sure enough it did and about a mile from the top, ukbloke found his legs again, I lost mine and we split. No KOM points for me today 

Very excited that we had the fabled Empire Grade descent to come, and thinking that all the climbing was over, we covered up (it was getting very cold at this point) and headed down. Nobody told me there were climbs in Empire Grade headed south.. hmph.. still, we had fun, although I couldn't get anywhere near 50 mph.

Really fun ride.. I'm not so sore now as I was packing the car, weirdly. 

http://www.plus3network.com/activity/tour-of-california-stage-3-preride/267035

Edit: I just looked it up and this was a PB for me on Tunitas Creek.. woohoo! In fact, *every* climb was a new PB for me since all the others were new!


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## sometimerider (Sep 21, 2007)

ratpick said:


> I was able to keep the dynamic duo in my sights for about half the climb and came in about 2:30 mins slower. I'll take it


I knew that those 2 would destroy me, and if you're only a few minutes slower on Tunitas, you would too.



> I stayed in the lead on Highway 1 south (again - wind at our back  and we kept a good pace down to Davenport. Watered there and made plans.. we had just enough time to climb Bonny Doon and descend to Santa Cruz in the remaining daylight.


Ah, yes. I was wrong earlier when I said Davenport left only 10 miles to SCruz - I forgot you had to do Bonny Doon!



> Very excited that we had the fabled Empire Grade descent to come, and thinking that all the climbing was over, we covered up (it was getting very cold at this point) and headed down. Nobody told me there were climbs in Empire Grade headed south.. hmph.. still, we had fun, although I couldn't get anywhere near 50 mph.


Yep, the EG descent has some notable bumps in it. And I mentioned to my group that 50 mph guess that someone made for it - none of us came close. I might have hit 41 (though I'm not a fearless descender - after my broken leg of last year).


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## ukbloke (Sep 1, 2007)

ratpick said:


> Well, that was an awesome, awesome ride. No photos sadly although it was a very beautiful day.


Nice ride report!



> I have nothing but admiration for the ToC riders who sprint up Bonny Doon Rd after already completing 100 miles. We did it too.. all but the sprint part!


Indeed, I can't imagine how they do it day-after-day and particularly in the conditions last year. Actually, I did all the sprint parts I just forgot to tell anyone else where the sprints were! ;-) I let you have the Santa Cruz county line sprint after all the sterling work you did pulling us down Highway 1!



> I hung on nearly all the time, causing ukbloke to mercifully slow the speed (thanks


This was tactical and also somewhat self-serving. I soon figured out that we would be collectively faster and stronger if we stayed together. I also realized that I was going to have to mete out my efforts. My diet of 30-40 mile training rides was clearly insufficient preparation for a 120 mile endurance effort! I wanted to save my energies for the climbs and I hated seeing my heart rate rising up alarmingly on the Highway 1 rollers. So I went to the front, and slowed it down.



> Bonny Doon was pain.. about a mile from the top, ukbloke found his legs again, I lost mine and we split. No KOM points for me today


I felt like complete crap between Haskins Hill and the start of Bonny Doon, but I recovered just in time. I had no idea that we had split on the climb until I got to the top and you weren't there. I guess I must have sped up in anticipation of the end without realizing it.



> Edit: I just looked it up and this was a PB for me on Tunitas Creek.. woohoo! In fact, *every* climb was a new PB for me since all the others were new!


Similar story for me. But I took a paltry 12 seconds off my Tunitas Creek PB, largely because of a ridiculous big effort over the last mile which I paid for later. Sunday was a good recovery day and I was starting to think that perhaps I'd found my fitness, but then I've been sick as a dog ever since so there it goes again ...


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## Dr_John (Oct 11, 2005)

Had a great time. I'd definitely be up for something similar with you two in the future. I'm glad I passed on Bonny Doon. As I was driving home I was hacking so hard I almost had to pull over. Not sure what was going on, but glad whatever I had is over.

Glad you guys pulled some personal bests. Unfortunately, not the case for me on times up Tunitas (I really did that in the past in 40 plus change?  ), or OLH, but believe it or not, that may have been my longest ride, so I guess in a sense, that was a personal best.

Anyways, thanks again for the ride. Until next time, and I hope it's not another year.


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## ratpick (Jul 31, 2008)

It was great to finally meet you Dr_John.. I need a lot more training to keep up with you and ukbloke! I can't believe how strong you were into the wind up Hwy 1 and now that time has passed, I confess that it was me that stuck a nail in your tire to slow you down


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## dwgranda (Sep 8, 2009)

Curious what the kJ for an effort like this is. Having seen your climb times I don't need to prove my lameness, but I'd like to have something to aim for. Since I'm working on weight loss 3200 in a day is about what I can manage right now without feeling like I need to hit a buffet.


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## ukbloke (Sep 1, 2007)

dwgranda said:


> Curious what the kJ for an effort like this is. Having seen your climb times I don't need to prove my lameness, but I'd like to have something to aim for. Since I'm working on weight loss 3200 in a day is about what I can manage right now without feeling like I need to hit a buffet.


ratpick's data suggests more than 9000 calories  However, energy efforts are very subjective and depend very much on the algorithms used. I guess I can get a better estimate, at least of energy output, from my power data when I get a chance to look at it.

Bonny Doon was a hill too far. We were literally 2x slower than the lead pro riders from last year's stage!


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## ukbloke (Sep 1, 2007)

ukbloke said:


> I guess I can get a better estimate, at least of energy output, from my power data when I get a chance to look at it.


4836 kJ according to the PowerTap data.


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## ukbloke (Sep 1, 2007)

Finally I've finished processing the video from this ride, and posted a clip on YouTube.

This video is a descent of Kings Mountain Road from Skyline to Woodside, CA. Find out more at http://www.biketelemetry.com and download a free DVD of the whole ride! The video was shot with a ContourHD helmet camera at 720p, and has a dashboard overlay using Bike Telemetry Pro software. This was part of a 120 mile ride where we checked out the route of stage 3 of the Tour of Calfornia 2010.


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## dwgranda (Sep 8, 2009)

Looks awesome. Just got my 300pt this week so I have big plans for this. Is there pricing on the site, am I missing something?


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## ratpick (Jul 31, 2008)

I've watched this descent about 20 times.. I think I have now memorized which corners you can take at full speed and which need braking


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## ukbloke (Sep 1, 2007)

dwgranda said:


> Looks awesome. Just got my 300pt this week so I have big plans for this. Is there pricing on the site, am I missing something?


We haven't launched the product yet ... it is coming soon. For now there's just the free DVD that you can download and watch.

The 300PT is the indoor PowerTap trainer, right? I think some good cycling videos would make that a lot more interesting!


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## dwgranda (Sep 8, 2009)

Yes it's their indoor trainer, it's a worth addition to the stable. I just didn't appreciate how much of a difference stability makes in the feel of a trainer. The thing weighs like 150 lbs! It's very smooth.  Got it in front of my 52" tv now and have been watching a sufferfest video and music videos from youtube. I got the contour per your recommendation and if I can add the telemetry data... really excited just thinking about it


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## ukbloke (Sep 1, 2007)

ratpick said:


> I've watched this descent about 20 times.. I think I have now memorized which corners you can take at full speed and which need braking


You'd better have a good memory as the consequences of being "off by a corner" are pretty severe.

This reminds me that I still need to do that "road bike versus mountain bike" head-to-head video for that descent!


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## ukbloke (Sep 1, 2007)

dwgranda said:


> Yes it's their indoor trainer, it's a worth addition to the stable. I just didn't appreciate how much of a difference stability makes in the feel of a trainer. The thing weighs like 150 lbs! It's very smooth. Got it in front of my 52" tv now and have been watching a sufferfest video and music videos from youtube. I got the contour per your recommendation and if I can add the telemetry data... really excited just thinking about it


Ahhh, that's right - it is the one that is the entire bike not just the wheel resistance. Very cool! I've been considering the PowerBeam version, but I'm not sure if I can justify it.


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## dwgranda (Sep 8, 2009)

Hard to justify the powerbeam if you already have a powermeter. Unless you're using a beater bike. In that case might be better to just buy a wired powertap if you already have a trainer. My 300pt was "only" $800 used. They just came out with the wireless one so my guess is that there are more wired ones available on craigslist. The 48lb flywheel gives it much more of a spin bike feeling and my cadences naturally seem to drift over 100. I'm doing a good 30 watts higher average than I could do with my powertap + mag trainer. My HR strap needs a new battery before I can verify that my sucky numbers before were a mental thing.


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## ratpick (Jul 31, 2008)

ukbloke said:


> 4836 kJ according to the PowerTap data.


I know Garmin computers are known to inflate calorie consumption but this seems ridiculous 

4836 kJ = 1156 cal

I'm pretty sure I burned more than that (barely a Big Mac!). My 705 bumps up the calorie rate significantly if my heart rate is up, and it was up above 90% for most of our 40 mile ride up from Santa Cruz and at max for most of Tunitas.

I know I lost at least a pound on this ride, despite all the eating beforehand and after (and that's after accounting for dehydration)


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## dwgranda (Sep 8, 2009)

That conversion doesn't account for metabolic efficiency (thank God!). But yes he put out the energy equivalent of a McD meal #1.


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## ukbloke (Sep 1, 2007)

ratpick said:


> I know Garmin computers are known to inflate calorie consumption but this seems ridiculous
> 
> 4836 kJ = 1156 cal


The human body is about 20-25% efficient at turning "calories in" into "energy out". It turns out that, to a first approximation, you can simply take the work in kJ and use that number as calories without any conversion factor.


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## ratpick (Jul 31, 2008)

ukbloke said:


> This reminds me that I still need to do that "road bike versus mountain bike" head-to-head video for that descent!


Oh cool.. I forgot that you had your camera for that - you were flying down on your MTB - that should make for an interesting comparison!

From my Sportracks records, the ToC descent (Skyline to Tripp) was 9:02 min and MTB descent was 9:25 min. Looking back on the past year at the handful of times I've descended Kings Mtn Rd, they are all in the 9:25 to 9:50 min range so we were flying down there no nobblies!


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## ukbloke (Sep 1, 2007)

ratpick said:


> Oh cool.. I forgot that you had your camera for that - you were flying down on your MTB - that should make for an interesting comparison!
> 
> From my Sportracks records, the ToC descent (Skyline to Tripp) was 9:02 min and MTB descent was 9:25 min. Looking back on the past year at the handful of times I've descended Kings Mtn Rd, they are all in the 9:25 to 9:50 min range so we were flying down there no nobblies!


I'm not sure that's a fair comparison. I *think* we got held up at the stop sign before you get to Tripp on the mountain bike descent. On Google Maps it is marked as "Entrance Way" and leads off to "Patrol Road". If I use that as the end-point I get 8:49 on the road bike. The mountain bike time is very very close - I'm posting a video right now so that you can see the head-to-head conclusion for yourself!


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## ukbloke (Sep 1, 2007)

Here it is:






I can't see it from work unfortunately - hope it looks OK!


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## kdown (Dec 8, 2007)

*Stereoscopic!*

I think if I view this video with my glasses from Avatar, I'll be able to see King's Mtn Rd. in 3-d


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## ukbloke (Sep 1, 2007)

kdown said:


> I think if I view this video with my glasses from Avatar, I'll be able to see King's Mtn Rd. in 3-d


 I'll add the red and blue video filters next time for those of us with 1950s style 3D glasses!


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## ratpick (Jul 31, 2008)

Fantastic! You were flying down there on your mountain bike - it was very hard to keep pace! 

It looks like we were faster in the corners on the road bikes but faster in the straights on the MTBs.. probably because you were leading the latter


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## sometimerider (Sep 21, 2007)

ukbloke said:


> Here it is:
> ...
> 
> I can't see it from work unfortunately - hope it looks OK!


Very nice.

Hard to believe you did that well on knobbies. Plus I would think that the roadie would have a gearing advantage.


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## ratpick (Jul 31, 2008)

*PB for a Kings Mtn Rd descent?*

This thread probably needs to be laid to rest  but after watching the Kings descent video a few times, I've been eager to go back and see just how fast I can do it.

I'm still recovering from 2 weeks off the bike and a bad cold, but I managed a flat 8:00 min descent today (measured Skyline to the stop sign). A lot of the corners felt much more familiar after watching the vid :thumbsup: 

I had to overtake a car but fortunately it was on the top straight section so didn't slow me down. I briefly came to a stop at the top for a fair comparison. I hit 45.8 mph (as I was passing the car) which surprised me since I've barely topped 40 mph before. My HR was right near the max for the top half until my thighs started cramping so I had to take it a little easier (the lower part has tight corners I don't think that slowed me down too much).

I don't want to incite a contest here because it *is dangerous*. I know you could beat that time, ukbloke, but have you? 

The Garmin pro team posts their riders' tracks online, right? Would love to see how fast they can go down (on a closed road).


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## ukbloke (Sep 1, 2007)

ratpick said:


> I'm still recovering from 2 weeks off the bike and a bad cold, but I managed a flat 8:00 min descent today (measured Skyline to the stop sign). A lot of the corners felt much more familiar after watching the vid :thumbsup:


Congrats, that is a huge amount of time to take out of our previous time! I have not gone faster down Kings Mountain, or even close to that time. I also doubt that I could. I'm just not that good in the corners. I have a friend (now cat 2) who is amazingly good downhill - incredibly effortless and smooth and relaxed. I know what it takes to go fast downhill and I don't have it. I can power out of a corner and reach high top speeds on the straights, but I don't carry my speed well through the corners and that's where I lose a lot of time.

Also, I do have a personal rule about not timing the descents - this is actually one competition that I don't really want to take part in. The reason I race uphill is that the consequences of failure are much less severe ...

On the other hand I did come third in the Woodside town limit sprint on the Noon Ride last Thursday, but that's another story.


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## dwgranda (Sep 8, 2009)

When I wrote my earlier reply I didn't realize the powerbeam is programmable. That seems like a really cool feature to have for indoors where (for me) maintaining focus is harder.

With that in mind I put in an order today for their updated model the 400 pro that's also programable. Now I have a helmet cam, GPS + power data, and programmable power workout trainer. I'm wondering if your telemetry software has launched yet? I don't know how well this will workout in practice, but this seems like it could be REALLY cool to re-create an actual ride indoors.


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## ukbloke (Sep 1, 2007)

dwgranda said:


> With that in mind I put in an order today for their updated model the 400 pro that's also programable. Now I have a helmet cam, GPS + power data, and programmable power workout trainer. I'm wondering if your telemetry software has launched yet? I don't know how well this will workout in practice, but this seems like it could be REALLY cool to re-create an actual ride indoors.


We haven't launched yet. I had a big change of plan and decided to go with a web-based service rather than selling a piece of software. It is taking time to add the new user interface. There's also been a spate of unforeseeable events (aka "life") that have slowed things down more.

You are thinking along similar lines to me for the PowerBeam set-up. It is an opportunity to have video, power and real-time control. Completing the feedback loop is a little tricky but with luck everything could be done with off-the-shelf parts. Unfortunately this is a niche^3 market area so it is not high on my priority list. At the moment you are probably the only customer in existence who owns all the right toys!


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## dwgranda (Sep 8, 2009)

Well, I look forward to checking it out when it's ready. The other programs available seem to have a high upfront cost.

BTW- Here is my first video upload using my 1080p contourhd although vimeo degrades the quality still came ok.
http://vimeo.com/12903102

I was having quite a vibration problem until I tightened my helmet to almost choking level. Now I'm much more satisfied with how they're turning out. Are you doing anything special to keep the vibration down? Your vids look pretty smooth.


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## ukbloke (Sep 1, 2007)

dwgranda said:


> Are you doing anything special to keep the vibration down? Your vids look pretty smooth.


Nice job with the video!

I could write an essay on video quality and vibration management! In brief, I use the official ContourHD vented helmet mount with extra zip ties for stability. I mount on the side of the head rather than the top, though I'm not sure how important this is. You have to have realistic expectations - you are not going to get super smooth video at 50mph on a bike! My helmet is a snug fit on my head (in terms of circumference), and I have the chin strap at the right level of snugness for safety but not excessively tight. It helps a lot to use eye movement where possible (and safe), rather than head movement. Vertical up/down shake is worse than left/right shake because of the shutter design of these "cheap" HD helmet cameras. You can use VirtualDub and the deshaker plug-in to make your videos smoother, but it is a fairly technical process and requires a lot of effort and machine time.


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