# Stem Length



## garysatx (Oct 17, 2010)

I just got a new bike and have been experimenting with the stem length. I started with 110mm which made me feel too stretched out. I've since tried 100mm and am currently riding 95mm. 

95mm feels very comfortable but my hands seem to go numb much quicker than I'm used to. Is there any correlation between the stem length and numbness, i.e., it's TOO short?

Any help would be appreciated.


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## FatTireFred (Jan 31, 2005)

they shouldn't go numb at all... move your hand positions around


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## garysatx (Oct 17, 2010)

Thanks for the reply.

I move my hands around quite a bit and numbness is never an issue. It's made me wonder if a shorter stem length has altered my position enough to create additional pressure on my hands that wasn't there before.


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## PJ352 (Dec 5, 2007)

The OP of the thread below experienced similar problems, so you may want to read through it. If you're hand numbness is due to excessive frontal weight (which IME is likely), you may find the saddle adjustments I suggested helpful. Also, if you purchased the bike new from a LBS, most will tweak fit post purchase. 

http://forums.roadbikereview.com/showthread.php?t=231670


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## Salsa_Lover (Jul 6, 2008)

a 120 would be the ideal stem lenght.

nothing wrong with 100s or 90s but it could mean that your frame is too large or that you are not bending your back enough.


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## heathb (Nov 1, 2008)

There's nothing holy grail about 120, 110, 100 for stem lengths. 

I solve this problem by having a box full of stems from 80mm all the way up 140mm in +/- 6 deg and 10 deg. So I can swap them out when I need to.

The bottom line is your frame size is based off your inseam, sometimes a longer top tube comes with the package. A shorter stem in this case is the way to go. You can also flip your stem, 6 degree stems are nice for this because they work either way and are not as extreme as say a 10 degree that often puts the stem too high. 

Some say the handle bar should hide the front axle from your line of sight when in the drops, but this isn't always the case. The main thing is you've got to be comfy on the bike, start with a shorter stem and as you stretch out more you can put a slightly longer stem for a more aero profile when the need arises, or you can stay with the shorter stem and ride happy and pain free. 

Don't let others dictate your bike fit.


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## brblue (Jan 28, 2003)

garysatx said:


> I just got a new bike and have been experimenting with the stem length. I started with 110mm which made me feel too stretched out. I've since tried 100mm and am currently riding 95mm.
> 
> 95mm feels very comfortable but my hands seem to go numb much quicker than I'm used to. Is there any correlation between the stem length and numbness, i.e., it's TOO short?
> 
> Any help would be appreciated.


The more stretched out you are the smaller the force applied from below , on you.
I.e. if bars are right "beneath" you (short stem, short top tube), and also if seat setback is short, your hands will bear a lot of weight and you'll feel it more on your hands.

more setback means less weight on the bars.
more top tube/stem means you're not pressing vertically on the bars but rather longitudinally (which can diminish or increase discomfort).

Numbness means that the force your hands are bearing, on the current bar/hood setup, is causing some blood flow issues.

I guess there are a lot of variables to take into account, but one of them would be changing bar/hood position in some way (experiment).
Another would be to change saddle setback and another, stem length.
I guess bar tape and gloves can also play some role, but for me it is usually hood position / bar tilt that causes/solves numbness/ had pain problems..

good luck
brblue

Edit: of course saddle setback will influence your pedalling too, i.e. you might find that you're solving your hand issues by changing setback, but will cause a different problem for pedalling.


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## ultraman6970 (Aug 1, 2010)

If the hands are getting numb there is a big chance the stem it is too short and a combination with saddle postion/angle.

Is the saddle totally flat or the nose is going down? Is the saddle in the right position? 

I advice you to do your homework and find out this yourself, once u learn why and how to correct some stuff u wont forget it ever.

Good luck


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## garysatx (Oct 17, 2010)

This is excellent information. Will definitely help.

Thank you.

Gary


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## rx-79g (Sep 14, 2010)

Sometimes in an effort to get comfortable people shorten their stem, when they should have raised it. A higher position is shorter in some ways, but is much more natural than having your elbows close to your knees.


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## terbennett (Apr 1, 2006)

Wow! a 95? Are you short or is the frame too big? I'm 6'3" and ride a 58 cm Felt. When I used to ride Treks, I rode 60 cm due to the shorter top tube. I was always told that if you go under 100 mm that usually means that the frame is the wrong size. Did you ever try a frame one size smaller?


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## SunnyinCO (Oct 26, 2010)

terbennett said:


> ... I was always told that if you go under 100 mm that usually means that the frame is the wrong size. Did you ever try a frame one size smaller?


Based on my personal situtation, I would dissagree with this statement. At 6'0 and a 32 inseam, a Large has been the right fit for me based on a number of different shops, frames, fitters, etc. However because my hip flexors & hamy's are so tight, I go with a 95 stem. I could go longer but if I am riding at a high intensity or a lot of climbing (living in CO this is almost every ride) my lower back tighens up.

My hands do get a bit more sore or tired on the shorter stem but I have found it is because of the new shallow and narrow bars.


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## rx-79g (Sep 14, 2010)

SunnyinCO said:


> Based on my personal situtation, I would dissagree with this statement. At 6'0 and a 32 inseam, a Large has been the right fit for me based on a number of different shops, frames, fitters, etc. However because my hip flexors & hamy's are so tight, I go with a 95 stem. I could go longer but if I am riding at a high intensity or a lot of climbing (living in CO this is almost every ride) my lower back tighens up.
> 
> My hands do get a bit more sore or tired on the shorter stem but I have found it is because of the new shallow and narrow bars.


It really depends on body type, but I think stem length can be a guide. "Normal" stems are 90 to 130mm. If you are at one end or the other, you probably could have gone up or down a frame size, if everything else is okay. On traditionally sized frames the size is in 2cm increments, but the top tube difference is usually more like 1.5cm per size. So a 95 stem on a 58cm frame could be traded for a 110 on a 56cm, for instance. The very long and short stem lengths are really there to accomodate people with longish or shortish torsos. If you are using a very long or very short stem, the bike is probably not distributing your weight to the wheels as well as one with a more mid length stem, IMO.


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## orangeclymer (Aug 18, 2009)

The tried and true base setting is when on the hoods (not in the drops) the bar will hide the front axle. Does this apply to every person? most likely not but it's a guide and lets say when on the hoods the axle is 90% covered (on either side)this will also suffice.


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## rx-79g (Sep 14, 2010)

orangeclymer said:


> The tried and true base setting is when on the hoods (not in the drops) the bar will hide the front axle. Does this apply to every person? most likely not but it's a guide and lets say when on the hoods the axle is 90% covered (on either side)this will also suffice.


I find that the hood position varies a lot between people, because people hold the hoods in very different ways. That rule of thumb is usually from the drops with bent elbows because it is a more uniform position. That works for me, but is not for everyone.


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## orangeclymer (Aug 18, 2009)

rx-79g said:


> I find that the hood position varies a lot between people, because people hold the hoods in very different ways. That rule of thumb is usually from the drops with bent elbows because it is a more uniform position. That works for me, but is not for everyone.


yes but without picking it apart to the gnats ass like your doing the very simplistic position IS out on the hoods plain and simple i e thumb to the inside with the backside of each hand facing outward and YES it is from this position NOT the drops that one checks for bar/front spindle alingment.


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## FLFlyer (Jan 6, 2007)

Everything I have ever read or heard for stem length also refers to hands on the hoods and not the drops. That is how my bike is set up with a 90 stem. I also have my saddle a cm forward of the standard KOP position. However, I have relatively long legs and a short torso (5'8" w/33" inseam). I would love to be able to use a longer stem because I think the Bike would handle better, but I would need a much smaller frame. Having my reach longer Than what it is I have found to be uncomfortable, especially for my one shoulder, which has given me problems since HS when i hurt it playing football.


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## robpar (Jan 26, 2008)

garysatx said:


> I just got a new bike and have been experimenting with the stem length. I started with 110mm which made me feel too stretched out. I've since tried 100mm and am currently riding 95mm.
> 
> 95mm feels very comfortable but my hands seem to go numb much quicker than I'm used to. Is there any correlation between the stem length and numbness, i.e., it's TOO short?
> 
> Any help would be appreciated.


I agree with previous post: stem length is based on what YOU prefer in order to achieve the riding position YOU want.

Numbness of the hands can be due to some of these issues:
Too much pressure/weight being supported by your hands/arms: slide your saddle back so more weight is on your butt.
Wrist and forearm angle too tight putting pressure on wrist nerves: adjust reach and/or bar angle/height so hands are in "neutral" position (hand shake position)
Torso and arm angle too "open" (more than 90 degrees): adjust reach and/or bar height.
Holding bars too tight: relax grip and move them to different positions on the bars.

if you have a stationary trainer you can try different stems and see what works for you...

Hope this helps and happy riding!


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## rx-79g (Sep 14, 2010)

orangeclymer said:


> yes but without picking it apart to the gnats ass like your doing the very simplistic position IS out on the hoods plain and simple i e thumb to the inside with the backside of each hand facing outward and YES it is from this position NOT the drops that one checks for bar/front spindle alingment.


http://www.coloradocyclist.com/bikefit


> One indicator comes from glancing down at the front hub while riding in the drops; your view of the the front hub should be obstructed by the handlebar.


Clearly, there isn't one "correct" answer to this method, so take it easy there. You heard it one way, I heard it another. You can find references all over the net for either, but the Colorado Cyclist guys are not newbies. 

The Lemond method of an inch or two of elbow to knee clearance from the drops is probably more useful anyway, as it takes arm and torso length into account.


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## Kerry Irons (Feb 25, 2002)

*Tried and true?*



orangeclymer said:


> The tried and true base setting is when on the hoods (not in the drops) the bar will hide the front axle.


Actually, no. If you normally ride in the hoods, this might be good, but if you normally ride in the drops, you might want the hub obscured by the bar in that position. Further, is it obscured when you drop your head to look, or just when you drop your eyes to look? That difference alone counts for a couple of cm of difference in stem length. It's one of the least reliable rules of thumb for bike fitting.

Reach is one of the harder dimensions to get "right" because there is so much variability among people regarding flexibility, body proportions, core strength, and even the comfort of a given bend of the wrist. You really have to be willing to try different positions and see what works for you, and even that will likely change over time as you become more accustomed to riding or lose flexibility, etc.


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## twinkles (Apr 23, 2007)

Your hand problems might be caused by a different hood or bar shape from your old bike. A guy I know had his hands go more numb than ususal after switching to flat top bar. If your old bar is round, I would consider going back. Sometimes an "upgrade" isn't always an upgrade.


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## tarwheel2 (Jul 7, 2005)

Another factor is that a shorter stem could have lowered your handlebars. If you are using riser stems, a 95 mm reach would be lower than a 110, assuming both stems have the same rise. In my experience, handlebar height has a huge effect on hand numbness. I tried all sorts of remedies for numb hands and nothing made much of a difference until I raised my handlebars (which also shortened the reach).

Keep in mind, that a stem with more rise will also shorten reach. So, if you increase the rise, you might need a stem with 100 or 110 reach, depending on how much rise the stem has.


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## rs_herhuth (Aug 17, 2009)

A down and dirty quick rule of thumb is when you are riding the handlebars should obscure the front hub when looking down. Albeit that's a little generalized but I found it works for many.


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## rx-79g (Sep 14, 2010)

rs_herhuth said:


> A down and dirty quick rule of thumb is when you are riding the handlebars should obscure the front hub when looking down. Albeit that's a little generalized but I found it works for many.


There were 7 posts previous to yours about the exact same thing.

RIF.


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## Kuma601 (Jan 22, 2004)

So many different variables and that old saying about not seeing the axle...one can go crazy over it. Vary the the bar reach, drop, hood/lever position, stem height...and it all goes out the window.  Comfort to accommodate neck, back...blah-blah. Find a spot where you can pedal comfortably for the duration of the ride while changing hand positions. Along the way you'll adapt. 

I have a small box of stems and bars and as time changes/I age, I've adjusted the position to get the most comfort. I can see the axle and in past times I couldn't...doesn't matter really. Almost like KOPS, this could go on and on.


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## Richard (Feb 17, 2006)

Bike fitting via the internet?

It's tough enough when I've got the "victim" on his or her bike in the stationary trainer with all my voodoo tools at hand.

I love these threads.


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## chase196126 (Jan 4, 2008)

Richard said:


> Bike fitting via the internet?
> 
> It's tough enough when I've got the "victim" on his or her bike in the stationary trainer with all my voodoo tools at hand.
> 
> I love these threads.


This echoes my opinion on the subject exactly. 

You can find a basic comfortable position simply sitting on the bike and swapping parts as you feel, but in most cases the fit is going to be way (WAY!) off perfect. 

Remember, bodies change over time and fitting styles are different between fitters. I, for example, rode a position with a 110mm stem with a 56 Top tube for the last 2.5 years. I recently got my new team bike and went to be fitted by a different fitter than had done my fits since 2008. With increased flexibility my stem went to a 130 on top of a completely flat head set cap. I never would have thought I would be comfortable on a 130, but low and behold I am more comfortable than ever. 

My rambling basically means you should go get fit professionally and stop trying to do it over an internet forum...


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## rx-79g (Sep 14, 2010)

"Go to a professional to get fitted for stem." I sometimes feel like I'll live to see the day when having your tires professionally inflated is all the rage.

People are capable of fitting themselves. People who do things for themselves can benefit from general advice. Bicycling is not such a difficult sport that it can't happen without constant input from so-called professionals all the time.

Professional fitting is an important solution to physiological problems some riders have. But finding two professionals that end up with the same solution is often so difficult that it challenges the "professional" part of the title. It's a big expense for a plentiful but suspect product.


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## chase196126 (Jan 4, 2008)

Not everyone needs a fitter to find a good position, but it can really help. 

The OP seems to be encountering a few different issues as he swaps sizes of stem, leading to changing different parts of the bike. Sometimes if you aim for one part of a bike fit (the way the front of the bike feels here) other aspects of fit can be neglected or changed in a negative way without really noticing. Having a fitter help out avoids concentrating on one single aspect of the way a fit feels. Remember, sometimes a proper fit may not feel completely natural for the first few rides because a body can adapted to a previously terrible position on the bike.

It would really suck if a bike fitted over an internet forum lead to injury. Without photos we cannot get even a basic idea of what is really going on with the way the bike is currently fitted or how it is being changed for the better or worse.


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## pacificaslim (Sep 10, 2008)

I don't think anyone has asked how the OP positions his hands. I see a lot of people who jam their hand into the brake hood so that their weight is supported between the thumb and index finger or across the palm diagonally there. There are nerves there that can cause discomfort. Instead, you might try pulling your hand back towards you slightly and rotating the hands in so that the palms face each other. Imagine reaching your hand out to shake hands with someone. Now put the hand down on the bar so that your hand is sitting on that fleshy area between the pinky and wrist. 

From this position you can, depending on the shifters, still shift and can easily rotate forward slightly to brake. But you may feel a lot less pressure and not be hitting any nerves that make your hands go numb.


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## rx-79g (Sep 14, 2010)

chase196126 said:


> It would really suck if a bike fitted over an internet forum lead to injury. Without photos we cannot get even a basic idea of what is really going on with the way the bike is currently fitted or how it is being changed for the better or worse.


Seriously? I challenge you to find a stem length that could "injure" a healty human being. The difference between the longest and shortest stems is less than the height of a piece of toast. Good fit is important, but let's not get crazy - the handlebars are just an assemblage of places to rest your hands, nothing like what's going on with the pedals.

No one on this thread attempted to "fit" the OP. People just offered some ideas on what to look for when he's fitting himself.

Most bicycles on earth are being ridden with whatever stem came with the bike, yet prolific stem related injuries aren't in evidence. "Correct" stem length is ultimately a comfort issue, like saddle angle. There is no one right answer, just starting points. If you're at least on the right size frame, chances are that you can produce a stem fit on your own that will match many of the lengths recommended by a slew of fitters.


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## pacificaslim (Sep 10, 2008)

rx-79g said:


> The difference between the longest and shortest stems is less than the height of a piece of toast.


That'd be some thick toast! (excluding mtb or fixie style stems, road stems are still pretty commonly available in 90mm to 140mm lengths and that's a difference of 2").


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## chase196126 (Jan 4, 2008)

rx-79g said:


> Seriously? I challenge you to find a stem length that could "injure" a healty human being. The difference between the longest and shortest stems is less than the height of a piece of toast. Good fit is important, but let's not get crazy - the handlebars are just an assemblage of places to rest your hands, nothing like what's going on with the pedals.
> .


Obviously a stem itself is not likely to lead to injury (assuming a rider doesn’t do anything drastic, like riding a stem so long they end up crashing themselves out). However, if another part of the bike is changed, such as saddle height or setback, to accommodate for a different stem length there is potential for injury. 

Throwing in the idea to go have a professional fit is in line with giving suggestions on how to fit a bike at home


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## rx-79g (Sep 14, 2010)

pacificaslim said:


> That'd be some thick toast! (excluding mtb or fixie style stems, road stems are still pretty commonly available in 90mm to 140mm lengths and that's a difference of 2").


A piece of toast is 10cm on a side.


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## pacificaslim (Sep 10, 2008)

rx-79g said:


> A piece of toast is 10cm on a side.


Very funny! When you said "height of a piece of toast," you didn't seriously think people would picture said toast somehow standing up on its side instead of picturing it laying flat on a plate, did you? Surely 9 out of 10 people would equate the "height" of a piece of toast with its thickness, not it's length/width.


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## rx-79g (Sep 14, 2010)

chase196126 said:


> Obviously a stem itself is not likely to lead to injury (assuming a rider doesn’t do anything drastic, like riding a stem so long they end up crashing themselves out). However, if another part of the bike is changed, such as saddle height or setback, to accommodate for a different stem length there is potential for injury.
> 
> Throwing in the idea to go have a professional fit is in line with giving suggestions on how to fit a bike at home


Why would someone change their seat height because of a different reach stem? I imagine someone would, but it doesn't logically follow, so why even consider the possibility?

The idea of a professional fit is a fine one, but that is not what you "threw in". You attempted to undermine the advice offered and suggest that only a professional should fit a stem. That's baloney and I'm calling you on it.


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## rx-79g (Sep 14, 2010)

pacificaslim said:


> Very funny! When you said "height of a piece of toast," you didn't seriously think people would picture said toast somehow standing up on its side instead of picturing it laying flat on a plate, did you?


Well, reasonably smart people, yes. You had 3 different axes to apply the word "height" to, you chose the wrong one. It's hilarious you would blame someone else for you not being able to figure this out on your own.

60mm to 150mm = 9cm. Toast.


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## chase196126 (Jan 4, 2008)

rx-79g said:


> Why would someone change their seat height because of a different reach stem? I imagine someone would, but it doesn't logically follow, so why even consider the possibility?
> 
> The idea of a professional fit is a fine one, but that is not what you "threw in". You attempted to undermine the advice offered and suggest that only a professional should fit a stem. That's baloney and I'm calling you on it.


I have seen people do strange things when trying to fit themselves to new bikes. For example a kid i went to high school with got into road riding and was trying to get his new bike dialed in. He switched stems in order to be longer and lower, found that he was too long and low so he moved his seat forward to compromise, which adjusted how high his seat felt so he adjusted that as well. 

I apologize if my comments about going to a fitter came across as "only a fitter should select a stem length". I did not intend it to be that specific. I will clarify my position:

Based on the things discussed in this thread, ie hand numbness and its relation to saddle setback, drop, reach, etc (which are all part of bike fitting as a whole, not just stem length) I recommend the OP get a proper bike fit and not base their fit off of a forum thread where not even basic photos were provided. I can 99.9% guarantee the OP will end up with a better position going to a fitter than if they guess and check using ideas suggested here. 

I stand by my statements that a bike should be properly fitted by a professional, or equally trained and equipped fitter, to avoid injury and provide a proper fit on said bicycle. Proper is defined as proper for each individual person and their needs and limitations.


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## [email protected] (Oct 16, 2010)

my son is a big boy at 6'2" but has short arms we had to change his stem to a shorter one but with more rise now he is loving riding..........before this he was on my old mt bike and did not like to ride ( i am only 5'9" with a 30" inseam ) then we got him the used Can 2.8 in his size but had to play the stem game


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## [email protected] (Oct 16, 2010)

oh but I am still new in road bike so dont take my word as the facts it just worked for him


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## rs_herhuth (Aug 17, 2009)

I couldn't agree more...but for a new rider who is lost in the sea of all of the things you mention...and some you didn't....I just wanted to allow him to get in the ballpark...I remember when I was starting out, I didn't have access to a trainer so I had to setup by feel...but since I hadn't ridden before it was hard to tell what was comfortable and what wasn't...I hadn't developed a baseline.


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