# Lightweight touring gear?



## buck-50 (Sep 20, 2005)

So I was thinking last night, why is bike touring gear so heavy?

Over the last 10 years or so, there's been a revolution (evolution?) in backpacking gear- packs, boots, everything has shed weight. What used to be heavy cordura is now lighter fabric. Packs that weighed 8 pounds now weight 2. Heavy leather boots have been replaced with boots that weigh about as much as a pair of running shoes. titanium cooksets. 

So why do bike panniers still weigh like 3 or 4 pounds a piece? 

Figure if your gear weighs less, your bike can be built a little lighter, you can feel a little less tired at the end of the ride. I mean, if you could cut the weight of a pannier down to ounces instead of pounds, that'd save a whole lot of weight.

I understand the need for durability on a trip across the country. But lets be honest- most of us are lucky to get away for a long weekend. Lighter weight gear could easily handle that.

So, any thoughts? anyone making super light panniers out there? anyone got any sources for super strong, light cloth?


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## tarwheel2 (Jul 7, 2005)

I'd be interested in this as well. Offhand, I would think that cycling panniers would need to be more waterproof than backpacking gear because road spray from tires, puddles, etc. would tend to get gear wetter than just rainfall per se.

I am sure there is a wide variation among different brands and models of panniers, just judging by the differences among racks. Eg, the Surly rack weighs about twice as much as a Tubus Cargo, which is comparable in strength and size.

With regard to Ortleib panniers, one of the main difference between the Roller and Roller Plus models is the weights. The Roller Plus rear pannier is about 220 grams lighter and the front pannier is about 150 g lighter than the regular Roller models.


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## Scott B (Dec 1, 2004)

As for cloth you should be able to easily find light weight coated nylon on the internet or locally. In Minnesota, for those in Minnesota, SR Harris is great. It takes some digging, but they have good stuff for cheap. It is going to be hard to do both light and waterproof. Making a bag that is light and ridged might be hard, but I'm sure it's possible.

I've seen people who ditch the bags and just use a sil-nylon stuff sack on front and rear platform racks. That is a very light solution if you can give up some capacity.

Other places let you save lots of weight and make up for heavier bags. Racks are one of them. My partner used a Tubus Fly for a cross country trip. It weighs about 1/3 of a jandd rack. If you can get down to one set of bags and one rack that's a big weight reduction.

Switch from a tent to tarp and save ~3-4 pounds. I have an MSR tent that can be pitched with just the fly and floor making it a ~3.5 shelter for 2 vs. a 5 lbs shelter for 2.

Ultra light rain gear, cookware, stove, etc add up. I know next time I'm bike traveling I'm going to try to cut my weight drastically. I'd love to get under 20 pounds including bags. I generally don't count food and water in this total.


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## buck-50 (Sep 20, 2005)

I always wondered about waterproof-ness...

Coming from a canoeing/kayaking background, I was always taught that you should never trust a waterproof pack.

Maybe I need to break out my sewing machine.


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## muscleendurance (Jan 11, 2009)

lite, strong, durable

pick two.

and when your touring and not 'touring' 2lbs of weight difference doesnt make a damn bit of difference when your rig weighs 80-100lb!


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## buck-50 (Sep 20, 2005)

muscleendurance said:


> lite, strong, durable
> 
> pick two.
> 
> and when your touring and not 'touring' 2lbs of weight difference doesnt make a damn bit of difference when your rig weighs 80-100lb!


Right, but if you cut the weight of your "rig" in half, that would make a difference.

In other words, you get your total load down to 20-25 pounds, your bags only weigh another pound or 2, and suddenly you don't need a 30 pound bike...


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## Scott B (Dec 1, 2004)

You might look at bike packing sites to steal some ideas from the mountain bike world. Check out some of the set ups people use for things like the Great Divide Race.

Ditch racks and go with an under seat bag and handlebar bag. Maybe a frame bag too. 

Check out Epic for some ideas: http://www.epicdesignsalaska.com/

I've done short tours on my Gunnar Sport with rear bags and a handlebar bag. Nothing ultralight about the bags, I just cut out a ton of stuff. If you are only out for a few days you can get by without a lot of gear.


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## YuriB (Mar 24, 2005)

As Scott suggests get rid of panniers all together. Plenty of us run very light set-ups for bikepacking that could easily be adopted for road touring.

http://www.bikepacking.net/


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## Frith (Oct 3, 2002)

Well as with most things you're not the first to wonder this and as with most things there is already a group of people on the internet discussing and dissecting this very topic. Check out the yahoo group ultralightbiking.

It was formed by some of the members of the similarly focused ultralightbackpacking.

I consider myself a fairly lightweight tourer. I travel with 2 panniers at the most. I did that when biking and camping on manatoulin island for a week and i did that when I spent 3 months cycling all over Thailand.

The first thing to consider is the bike itself. If you stay away from the boat like dedicated tourers (the Surly LHT of the world) and lean more toward a traditional road bike you've taken the first step in the right direction. Bikes marketed as Audax or Randoneur are a great comprimise in this regard.

I never intend to go super light weight. I like the odd convenience and I need to know that my gear is durable and safe and to be honest I've never actually weighed my touring set up but i reckon i'm under 50 pounds bike included. I do know that just about every other tourer I've come across has been shocked (and hopefully inspired) to see how little i get away with carrying and I've done it with no risks and little to no convenience sacrifices. If anything the excessive weight that most tourers lug around is increasing their risk of equipment failure and safety not to mention causing them a more difficult time logistically at every turn.

Part of it is philosophy. The less you burden yourself with stuff the more free you are to take notice of your surroundings. I can't even get into the trailer vs. panniers thread that's happening right now. The very thought of it ... ugh!

Like with anything there is a balance to be struck.


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## mitmoned (Apr 7, 2008)

I also wonder how much of it is a style thing. Tourers look at racers being crazy since they "have to" wear the same kits and have carbon bikes. Well, to me, there's a certain level of that snobbery with a small section of the touring crowd. They "have to" have a lugged steel bike with huge 35-42C tires, leather and canvas bags, and heavy duty equipment that will last forever.

I'm not saying any of these routes are wrong, I'm just pointing out a possible trend. Those blinged out tourers are pretty, but they are pretty heavy too.


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## buck-50 (Sep 20, 2005)

mitmoned said:


> I also wonder how much of it is a style thing. Tourers look at racers being crazy since they "have to" wear the same kits and have carbon bikes. Well, to me, there's a certain level of that snobbery with a small section of the touring crowd. They "have to" have a lugged steel bike with huge 35-42C tires, leather and canvas bags, and heavy duty equipment that will last forever.
> 
> I'm not saying any of these routes are wrong, I'm just pointing out a possible trend. Those blinged out tourers are pretty, but they are pretty heavy too.


I'd guess that style has as much to do with it as anything. Though I've heard those fancy leather and canvas bags weigh less than my modern Arkel bags. What would be cool is to find the Rapha-like intersection of cool looks and function.

I also know that people tend to buy gear for the trip in their head, not the one they'll ever actually take... I know I have that problem.


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## buck-50 (Sep 20, 2005)

Frith said:


> Well as with most things you're not the first to wonder this and as with most things there is already a group of people on the internet discussing and dissecting this very topic. Check out the yahoo group ultralightbiking.
> 
> It was formed by some of the members of the similarly focused ultralightbackpacking.
> 
> ...


I like yer thinking.


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## bigrider (Jun 27, 2002)

I love this thread and this topic. I have used both panniers and a trailer while touring/camping. The length of my tent is an issue when I use the panniers.


I use all of my backpacking gear when touring so I don't carry a lot of weight. But, it seems like a lot when you get it all on the bike.

I would venture a guess that in the future most major bike manufacturers will be making a carbon touring/commuter.

BTW, I have to have wider tires to carry my fat butt and all my stuff. I use 32s and they do the trick.


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## Scott B (Dec 1, 2004)

Check out this guys ultralight set up: http://www.crazyguyonabike.com/doc/?o=RrzKj&doc_id=4100&v=b2&term=ultralight&context=all

And his gear: http://www2.arnes.si/~ikovse/weight.htm

This is taking it to a true extreme, but I see it as inspiration to cut more out of what I carry. I don't think reducing gear this much would make me happy, but reducing it some will likely improve my experience.


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## buck-50 (Sep 20, 2005)

Wow- that is pretty amazing. Might be a few less conveniences than I'd like, but wow- that's definitely the gold standard for "and I could still camp out".


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## mitmoned (Apr 7, 2008)

To Bigrider - sorry, didn't mean any offense about using 32C tires. Those tires make sense for your combined bike/rider weight. But a 150 lb vegetarian on a 30 lb Rivendell really doesn't need 37C tires. 

With regard to that Crazyguyonabike link and his lightweightsetup, he had a great quote that goes both ways:

_Circulus viciosus. Always think of the mystical circle of light weight touring: less weight -> less volume -> less containers -> less weight -> less mechanical problems -> less spare parts and tools -> less weight -> ... _

I don't know if you'd get more mechanical problems with a heavier duty bike and equipment, but you'd sure have to put a lot more effort into moving forward.


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## buck-50 (Sep 20, 2005)

I think I'm gonna buy a couple yards of spectra cloth and start experimenting...


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## Scott B (Dec 1, 2004)

*nice! good luck.*



buck-50 said:


> I think I'm gonna buy a couple yards of spectra cloth and start experimenting...


Awesome! Good luck and take some pictures as you go forward with it. 

For thread I recommend nylon sail thread, it's super durable. Alternately synthetic lingerie thread is also every strong and not as hefty.


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## tarwheel2 (Jul 7, 2005)

Buck -- I've done some research since you laid down the gauntlet. With regard to rugged touring gear, the Lone Peak panniers seem to be about the lightest. Eg., their P-400 (2500 cu in) rear pannier weighs 46 oz.-- about 9 oz. less than the comparable Ortlieb Roller Plus. (2441 cu in). However, the Ortliebs are waterproof and you'd probably want the rain cover if using Lone Peak.

The lightest panniers I have found are made by Detours. Their Transit Tour (3000 cu in) weighs only 42 oz., including the rain cover. Their Transit Cycle (2200 cu in) weighs only 32 oz. Detours also makes waterproof expedition panniers that are relatively light. The XCountry Cycle (2300 cu in) weighs 38 oz, and the XCountry Tour (3300) weighs 56 oz.

I haven't seen the Detours panniers in person, so I don't know how sturdy they are or how well their rack attachments work, but their prices are very reasonable and they are nice looking. Might be worth a try if you don't tour a lot and don't want to sink a bundle of cash in panniers.

http://detours.us/index.php?cPath=35

Another option, if you travel light, is a Carradice seat bag. The Super C bag (1400 cu in) weighs only 19.4 oz. The Camper (1465 cu in) weighs 32.5 oz.


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