# Campy 10 speed chain question?



## chas0039 (Jun 26, 2007)

I know that there are Italian Thought Police are currently fast at work hunting me down, but it appears that there are quite a few 10 speed chain options for Campy users. I have done some searching here and it looks like the Campy chains can be used with the right Wippermann link. It also looks like Wippermann chains measuring 5.95 will also work and are highly recommended. 

My questions is this, can any chain measuring 5.9 mm, plus or minus, work? I see a lot of chains on the bike sites for sale, specifying for Campy 10 speed, from FSA, KMC and others.
Do these work or not. Clearly, you get what you pay for, but I would like to know what is usable.

Thanks.


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## Juanmoretime (Nov 24, 2001)

I've been using the KMC X10SL gold chain for a couple of years now. Its light, very good chain life and shifts well. Do I need anymore then that?


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## mwestray (Jan 4, 2008)

I have used Campy, Dura-Ace, Ultegra, Wipperman stainless and Wipperman nickel (current chain) on my Campy 10-spd set, all with Wipperman Connex link, and all have worked fine and provided long service life. I have read that the new Campy Record chain is improved and seems to be favored by some respected technical experts (Lennard Zinn), so I may give it a try next, but will use the Connex link.


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## C-40 (Feb 4, 2004)

*info...*

All 10 speed chains are now the same basic width, so there is never a width problem. Campy chains will still give the best life, compared to any other chain and shift great. Depending on where you buy they may cost more initially and don't have a master link that can be reused. Installing the HD-L pin can be done with an ordinary chain tool, with the proper technique.

I like the wipperman 10S1 connex link to join a Campy UN chain, but don't think wipperman chains are all that great.

The best bang for the buck is the KMC DX10SC, sold by Nashbar and Performance. If you can get it for $20-22, it's a steal. If I had to pay $40, I'd get a Campy Veloce chain.


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## chas0039 (Jun 26, 2007)

Thanks guys. Campy sounded magical when I first was exposed to some of their specifics. It is nice to see that the basic laws of physics prevail. I have found the KMC chain (thanks for the tip) but I will have to see if I can get by with 112 links. Don't you love the way they are getting shorter? I used to get 116. Last week I swapped out a chain for a neighbor's kis on an old Bianchi and the 114 link chain I had was just barely long enough.

Has anyone here had any experience with the FSA Team Issue chain?


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## mwestray (Jan 4, 2008)

C-40 or others, can the Wippermann Connex link be used with the new Campy Record (or Chorus) 5.9mm chain?


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## Eric_H (Feb 5, 2004)

*Wipperman 10S1*



mwestray said:


> C-40 or others, can the Wippermann Connex link be used with the new Campy Record (or Chorus) 5.9mm chain?


I have been using the Wipperman 10S1 Connex link with Chorus UN chains for the past 2 years. I have had no problems. In 2006 and 2007, Wipperman sold two versions of the Connex link, the original marked on the links "10 speed" that had 6.2mm marked on the packaging and the narrower marked on the links "10S1" that had 6.05mm on the packaging. The Connex link you want is the one marked *10S1*.

I recently tried to buy some 10S1 links from Excel and it seems now that Wipperman is only making one link as that is all they have in stock. Even on Wipperman's website (www.connexchain.com) they only show the one connector for 10 speed now. This link is marked "10 speed" and it is a little wider than the 10S1, I suspect it is the 6.2mm variety. The packaging no longer indicates 6.05 or 6.2 so it seems as though Wipperman is trying to have only one link. The links I received will work with the Campy UN chain, but the clearance at the side plates is a little wider than acceptable. These wider Connex links are a good fit on Shimano Dura-Ace or Ultegra chains and I'll probably just use them w/ Shimano chains on my winter bike.

Another option to join a Campy UN chain is to use the SRAM 10spd Powerlock connector. The inner link width of the SRAM and Campy UN chains is virtually identical, as reported by C-40. This is a tool-free method of joining the chain and avoiding the hassle of the Campy HD-L pin, but the SRAM 10spd link is not re-usable making the chain permanently joined. I have not done this myself, but i have a couple of Powerlock links and the next chain I replace will likely be Campy UN with SRAM connector.

With Campy already having a PITA chain connecting method for 10 speed, and 11 speed chains on the very near horizon, it would be nice if the boys and girls in Vicenza could come up with a tool-free connection. Shimano has it for the 7900-series D/A chain and SRAM has it with their chains. Pressing fussy pins into narrow chains seems to be the biggest source of chain problems in the 10 and 11 speed world. Of course if Campy had a tool-free connector they would lose out on selling new chain tools every chain iteration :blush2:


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## mwestray (Jan 4, 2008)

Very useful reply, Eric. I totally agree with your assessment of the pitfalls of driving pins with razor thin margin for error. The Connex links have performed flawlessly for me on a variety of 10-spd chains, but I really want to give the Campy UN chain a try. I will go on a quest for the 10S1. I also checked the Wippermann website and was surprised to see that there is now only 1 connector for 10 spd and, like you, I don't think it is the narrow version. As for why Campy doesn't create a more user-friendly means of chain connection, I'm not sure I can believe it is a sales related strategy. It doesn't seem to me that Campy can market their way out of a paper bag. If you've been watching the TdF on Versus, they've had segments with various bike and component manufacturers, including ShimaNO, but not a mention of Campagnolo. With their rich history in the sport, you would think that Campy's name would be splashed throughout the TdF and the media coverage. It's no surprise that Campy-equipped bikes in the US are becoming more and more rare, primarily limited to us "more mature" riders.


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## C-40 (Feb 4, 2004)

*don't agree...*

Unless you've got sales figures to back up that statement, I call BS. Campy has never had huge sales numbers and never will, but the new 11 speed parts are highly sought after. They've already presold all they can make for quite some time.

It's not just old timers who want 11 speed, it's those who want the latest high-tech drivetrain. Campy doesn't have huge sales number because the average LBS carries 99% Shimano or SRAM prebuilt bikes. Those who buy Campy build their own, most often. Campy is not interested in the OEM market to a great extent. That's the reason they quite making Xenon and Mirage.

You see Shimano info on Versus becasue they are a sponsor of the program, DUH.

The Campy chain joining system is not convenient when it comes to removing and reinstalling a chain, but there is no razor thin margin for error. The pin has a head on one end, so it's almost impossible to put in incorrectly IF you use the Campy tool. I've installed the pins without a Campy tool and all it takes is eliminating the tension from the chain while the pin is pushed in. That said, I like the Wipperman connex link better myself, but it won't keep me from buying 11 speed. 

Wipperman now only makes one model of 10 speed chain, but it should be the narrower 5.9mm model that takes the 10S1 link, the same one that was once called "Shimano compatible".


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## chas0039 (Jun 26, 2007)

C-40 said:


> .
> 
> Wipperman now only makes one model of 10 speed chain....


A few web sites list, for 2008, the 10S1, the 10sX, the 10s8, and the 10S0. Which one is their remaining model?


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## natsquared (May 29, 2008)

> The best bang for the buck is the KMC DX10SC, sold by Nashbar and Performance. If you can get it for $20-22, it's a steal


. 

Im with C-40 on this one. Heard about this chain and thought I would give it a shot. Can't speak to longevity yet but shifting performance is on par with the campy chain in replaced.


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## chas0039 (Jun 26, 2007)

Thanks again for all the input guys. I found a Wipperman 10s8 for less than $35 and Performance has the KMC today for less than $18 so I think I will use up some of my points.


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## Eric_H (Feb 5, 2004)

C-40 said:


> Wipperman now only makes one model of 10 speed chain, but it should be the narrower 5.9mm model that takes the 10S1 link, the same one that was once called "Shimano compatible".


True, Wippermann has only one 10 speed chain now, but I don't think the Connex links they now sell separately are of the 10S1 variety. If I take a 10S1 link and of the new 2008 links marked "10 speed" I can visually see the newer one is slightly wider. I have not measured the links exactly, but I will borrow the calipers from work and measure the pin lengths this weekend.


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## C-40 (Feb 4, 2004)

*all of them..*



chas0039 said:


> A few web sites list, for 2008, the 10S1, the 10sX, the 10s8, and the 10S0. Which one is their remaining model?


The difference is in the materials and hollow pins, not the dimensions. They make all of these models.


http://www.connexchain.com/


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## chas0039 (Jun 26, 2007)

I just checked with Performance and the KMC DX10SC they sell is not the same as what others stock. Theirs is 6 mm while the others I have seen are 5.88mm so watch out if you need Ultra Narrow.


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## C-40 (Feb 4, 2004)

*don't agree...*



chas0039 said:


> I just checked with Performance and the KMC DX10SC they sell is not the same as what others stock. Theirs is 6 mm while the others I have seen are 5.88mm so watch out if you need Ultra Narrow.



I bought three of these chains from Nashbar and five from Performance and they are all the standard DX10SC models, with a 5.9mm width. There are no mutiple widths made.

I have heard that some of the KMC chains sold at one time are unmarked versions, so I can't comment on those.


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## chas0039 (Jun 26, 2007)

Well it is always possible that Performance doesn't know their stock. All I can pass on is what two of their techs stated: 6.0mm. I also noted that the DX10SC sold on a site where they are specific at 5.9mm is 112 links while the chain sold at Performance is 114 links. 

My guess is they have old information and might be getting newer stock. I know some places I have queried about Wipperman have old stock before they went to 5.88mm but you cannot tell from the model number so there seems to be a pattern of narrowing the chain while keeping the old part number.


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## rellimreeb (Jul 29, 2007)

*I've been testing a 5.88mm KMC missing link for a few weeks and 400 or so miles now.*

And I'm happy to report it works very well. Nice clean design too (smaller profile than the wipperman/connex quick disconnect)

Look specifically for the 5.88mm connector. KMC has a few different sizes. The 5.88 connector will produce the necessary .008" of clearance in the link. 

But I'm still carrying a wipperman link in my bag, just in case


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## chas0039 (Jun 26, 2007)

To bring you up to date on the Forte/KMC 10 speed chain. I am now told by a tech, after a number of clarifying emails, that their Forte 10 speed chain is the DX10SC model, even though they have now removed that label from the web site. They have also been told by KMC that it is 5.88mm so it looks like I was correct; their tech support team had old info and they now have the narrower chain.


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## drewmcg (Sep 19, 2005)

C-40 said:


> I bought three of these chains from Nashbar and five from Performance and they are all the standard DX10SC models, with a 5.9mm width. There are no mutiple widths made.
> 
> I have heard that some of the KMC chains sold at one time are unmarked versions, so I can't comment on those.


C-40: Are you able to give a mileage estimate on the KMC chains vs. Campy UN?


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## rellimreeb (Jul 29, 2007)

millerinva said:


> And I'm happy to report it works very well. Nice clean design too (smaller profile than the wipperman/connex quick disconnect)
> 
> Look specifically for the 5.88mm connector. KMC has a few different sizes. The 5.88 connector will produce the necessary .008" of clearance in the link.
> 
> But I'm still carrying a wipperman link in my bag, just in case


have put another 500 or so miles (training, weekly crits and a tough road race) on the 5.88mm kmc connector - it works great. the clearance hasn't changed any, and it's quiet. One thing I like better than the wipperman link is it has a much smaller profile. It looks just like a link, the side plates are the same size as the campy plates.


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## C-40 (Feb 4, 2004)

*info...*

Roughly, I'd say you might get 20% more mileage from a Campy UN, but it will vary depending on how well the chain is cared for, whether you alternate the use of several chains and how accurately you measure the wear. If you've got 3-4 chains in a rotation on a cassette, the ultimate life of a chain is a matter of choice. You'll never get chain skip, but at some point, the worn rollers and overly flexible chain will affect the chainring life and shifting precision. I limit the increase in roller spacing to .035-.040 inch. By that time, a KMC might be approaching the .5% stretch limit and have a lot more side clearance.


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## drewmcg (Sep 19, 2005)

C-40 said:


> Roughly, I'd say you might get 20% more mileage from a Campy UN, but it will vary depending on how well the chain is cared for, whether you alternate the use of several chains and how accurately you measure the wear. If you've got 3-4 chains in a rotation on a cassette, the ultimate life of a chain is a matter of choice. You'll never get chain skip, but at some point, the worn rollers and overly flexible chain will affect the chainring life and shifting precision. I limit the increase in roller spacing to .035-.040 inch. By that time, a KMC might be approaching the .5% stretch limit and have a lot more side clearance.


So, all else being equal (how well chain is cared for, rotation practices, etc.), 20% greater durabity for the Campy UN's? (I need to pin you down on this before you go 11-speed on me!). Thanks!


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## drewmcg (Sep 19, 2005)

*Chains have gotten expensive . . . .*

Update to this thread from last summer for those of us still riding 10-speed, non-7900:

10 speed chains have gotten expensive!

Nashbar's Forte (KMC) DX10SC is now on "sale" for $33 +shipping (compared with $22 last summer; a 50% price increase!), and ProBikeKit is out of the Veloce chains.


Translation: Economic slump; less bikes, etc., being sold; retailers are raising prices on consumables to make ends meet . . . Have y'all noticed that even tubes & tires are gettting more expensive, too?

Of course, the 11-speed crowd is hurting even worse. C-40, feel like selling to me at cost me any of those KMC 10-speed chains you stocked up on last year?


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## C-40 (Feb 4, 2004)

*sold...*

I sold the KMC chains I bought and moved on to 11 speed.

Check out Ribble for low prices on the Veloce 10 chain or KMC chains. They have a 15% off sale still going and you might get more discount with the code USARBR (or is it RBRUSA). Note that prices include 15% VAT that is removed upon checkout.


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## drewmcg (Sep 19, 2005)

C-40 said:


> I sold the KMC chains I bought and moved on to 11 speed.
> 
> Check out Ribble for low prices on the Veloce 10 chain or KMC chains. They have a 15% off sale still going and you might get more discount with the code USARBR (or is it RBRUSA). Note that prices include 15% VAT that is removed upon checkout.


How are you liking the 11-spd groupo, or have you written elswhere on this?


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