# Using a Tablet to Detect Motodoping



## Local Hero (Jul 8, 2010)

https://www.instagram.com/p/BBsNethuWCZ/

At just 10-15 seconds per bike, this scan--if effective--should put an end to mechanical doping.


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## tlg (May 11, 2011)

Any idea how it works?


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## Local Hero (Jul 8, 2010)

Just my speculation. 

We do have devices to detect electric current, magnetic fields, and electronic bugs. We have metal detector wands, etc. Off the shelf technology could easily be adapted to detect a small electric motor.


I'm way more interested in seeing how the motors work!


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## tlg (May 11, 2011)

Local Hero said:


> Just my speculation.
> 
> We do have devices to detect electric current, magnetic fields, and electronic bugs. We have metal detector wands, etc. Off the shelf technology could easily be adapted to detect a small electric motor.


But all those things are already found in a di2 setup. And in the same area where a motor would be.


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## Local Hero (Jul 8, 2010)

If Di2 or other electric shifting cannot be filtered out, the device will probably detect magnetic fields. 

Most electric motors use magnets.


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## tlg (May 11, 2011)

Local Hero said:


> If Di2 or other electric shifting cannot be filtered out, the device will probably detect magnetic fields.
> 
> Most electric motors use magnets.


That was my point. The di2 FD has a servo motor in it. So there'd already be a magnet right where the hidden motor would be.


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## craiger_ny (Jun 24, 2014)

How long until the development of a jamming device?


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## MMsRepBike (Apr 1, 2014)

I'm going with infrared.

What I see is an IR blaster getting pointed at things.


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## deviousalex (Aug 18, 2010)

craiger_ny said:


> How long until the development of a jamming device?


And that would achieve what? If your device suddenly error'ed when you put it against the bike you'd know that person is cheating.


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## craiger_ny (Jun 24, 2014)

deviousalex said:


> And that would achieve what? If your device suddenly error'ed when you put it against the bike you'd know that person is cheating.


I was just kind of joking about evading doping tests but anyway...


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## duriel (Oct 10, 2013)

Suspect anyone racing with a steel frame, automatic tear down.


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## burgrat (Nov 18, 2005)

duriel said:


> Suspect anyone racing with a steel frame, automatic tear down.


I think their wool jersey and hairnet helmet would be a red flag that something fishy is going on. 

No one races steel at the top level of the sport. Could a motor even be fit into a steel frame tube?


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## Big-foot (Dec 14, 2002)

One of these could give the inspector a peek inside the frame equally as fast.


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## MisterMike (Aug 12, 2004)

Have them roll through one of these when they sign in
https://youtu.be/7CX9Agzeh-c


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## spade2you (May 12, 2009)

craiger_ny said:


> How long until the development of a jamming device?












The tablet appears to be.....jammed!


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## T K (Feb 11, 2009)

May the Schwartz be with you.


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## mikerp (Jul 24, 2011)

Local Hero said:


> https://www.instagram.com/p/BBsNethuWCZ/
> 
> At just 10-15 seconds per bike, this scan--if effective--should put an end to mechanical doping.


While this is working for now at some point things can be shielded (could be used in a carbon frame layup) or powered down, I see them going to portable digital xray at some point. This would leave every bike with a recorded image for historical purposes.


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## cmdrpiffle (Mar 28, 2006)

Exactly, best post in the thread.


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## Local Hero (Jul 8, 2010)

The Secret Bro thinks it detects *MAGNETS*. 


_There’s been so much speculation around Fabian Cancellara at the Tour of Flanders — his magic bike change, and he then he just took off. Of course, he denies it. You watch that video, and make your own decision. Either way, that’s why the UCI introduced the magnetic screening at races. I don’t for a second think this U23 Belgian is the first person to use a motor at a pro bike race. I’m sure whoever has done this is **** scared, now, after this._


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## Local Hero (Jul 8, 2010)

Greg Lemons thinks it's f'ing magnets too. But this isn't enough. He wants full body scans for the riders and their noble steeds. Body cavity searches and Lemons offered to wear the rubber glove and poke around for batteries. 

Not really. Here's what he actually said:

_When such examinations were first carried out, the UCI used tiny cameras which were inserted into the bottom bracket and seat tube areas in order to visually check if motors were present. The method was both cumbersome and slow.

More recently the UCI has indicated they are using tests based on magnetic resistance, but LeMond believes this is not enough.

“To me, the UCI are not testing properly. If they are, they need to put their money where their mouth is and buy the equipment that can really test the bikes.

“They need to have thermal imaging guns [to pick up the heat motors generate – ed.] That will help. They also need to use an x-ray scanner. After last year’s Tour I researched this myself and contacted a company.

“Through that contact, I have located a portable machine that costs about a million and a half dollars. All you have to do is pass every bike through it. It will detect everything – it will find things hidden in frames, rims, everywhere.

“That scanning should be carried out on all the Grand Tours and in other major events.”

...

“The best way to look for this is with the x-ray scanner. There is technology out there that can detect these things. If you really want to fight these people who are cheating, you have to fight them with technology.”_

More here.​
I actually disagree with Lemons on the expensive, cumbersome equipment approach. Tablets with little devices are quicker and easier, even if they are still developing. This tech is more agile and less expensive. Tablets with blood scanners from fingerpricks are on the horizon too.


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## deviousalex (Aug 18, 2010)

Local Hero said:


> Tablets with blood scanners from fingerpricks are on the horizon too.


I don't know if you got the memo, but Theranos is a complete fraud.


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## Local Hero (Jul 8, 2010)

Wow. I had no idea. 

How a Reporter Pierced the Hype Behind Theranos - ProPublica


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## deviousalex (Aug 18, 2010)

Maybe this smart phone with thermal imaging built in will be useful to them.

Caterpillar's New S60 Is the First Smartphone With FLIR Thermal Imaging Built Right In


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## Local Hero (Jul 8, 2010)

I bet the California Highway Patrol would be willing to use their helicopter-mounted FLIR during a stage of the Tour of California. The CHPs I know really like being part of the race.


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## duriel (Oct 10, 2013)

Thermal phone takes 'heat selfies' - BBC News

If it puts out heat, your busted.


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## spade2you (May 12, 2009)

Will thermal systems work if the motor hasn't been used before a race? I'd imagine they might be better towards the end of the race. Smart riders might use it well before the finish to avoid detection.


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## duriel (Oct 10, 2013)

I wouldn't think that the seat tube would dissipate the heat very well in a CX race. Now at Flanders, that may be another matter. Also, usually you need more power at the end (or on the 'hill'), not in the middle.

Remember one is only looking for a 'reason' to investigate further, not prove conclusively immediately.


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## rm -rf (Feb 27, 2006)

*Sensing magnetic fields from the motor*

I have the "GPS Status" app  on my Galaxy S5 phone. It also reports the magnetic field strength of the built-in compass. 

When the app is running, a typical field strength outdoors is around 25 uT (micro Teslas). If I wave it over my powered off cordless drill, it shows short bursts of 200 to 400 uT. So that would be a quick way to locate a motor's permanent magnets. An app that triggers when the magnetic strength changes rapidly would be easy to make.

But I also have a dead 3.5 inch hard drive. Those have very strong magnets inside, but it only shows maybe 50 or so, and I have to hold the phone right near the casing. It's mostly shielded by the steel cover--and maybe the cover itself is what's affecting the reading. And hard drive magnets are sandwiched between steel plates which also limit the external magnetic field.

So I won't be surprised when the stealth motor makers include steel covers or other methods to limit the magnetic fields.


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