# IF of 1.05 for 90 min- FTP too low?



## kreuzberg (Feb 1, 2009)

Hi,
So I did this really hilly ride this morning, and my norm power for 90 minutes was 1.05
I recently took almost 3 weeks off of riding (not all at once, intermittently throughout october) and so I assumed my FTP was pretty low and just kind of guesstimated what I thought it was (I KNOW, this is TERRIBLE!)
So I entered that value into my WKO+. Then today, 1.05 IF for an hour and a half.
Does this mean my FTP is set too low? Next week I am getting tested so I will know for sure, but can you have an IF of 1.05 for this long? I mean parts were hard, but there was a lot of easy-ish sections (downhills) and I was definitely not maxed out the whole time.

Thoughts?


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## Undecided (Apr 2, 2007)

kreuzberg said:


> Hi,
> So I did this really hilly ride this morning, and my norm power for 90 minutes was 1.05
> I recently took almost 3 weeks off of riding (not all at once, intermittently throughout october) and so I assumed my FTP was pretty low and just kind of guesstimated what I thought it was (I KNOW, this is TERRIBLE!)
> So I entered that value into my WKO+. Then today, 1.05 IF for an hour and a half.
> ...


FTP is set way too low.


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## iliveonnitro (Feb 19, 2006)

Set it so that your IF is 0.85-0.95 for the session, depending on exactly how hard the session was for you.


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## kreuzberg (Feb 1, 2009)

iliveonnitro said:


> Set it so that your IF is 0.85-0.95 for the session, depending on exactly how hard the session was for you.


It wasn't like insanely difficult. But if I do that, my FTP would be a number that I'm pretty sure I couldn't hold for an hour. So I'm a little confused here- is this a thing where the numbers don't lie, like what I did is reflective of my true FTP? Or are there some discrepancies...


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## Undecided (Apr 2, 2007)

kreuzberg said:


> It wasn't like insanely difficult. But if I do that, my FTP would be a number that I'm pretty sure I couldn't hold for an hour. So I'm a little confused here- is this a thing where the numbers don't lie, like what I did is reflective of my true FTP? Or are there some discrepancies...


Do a test on some reasonably common protocol (e.g., real 45 or 60 minutes of warmup leading into 20 minutes maximum effort) and see how it lines up.


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## aussiebullet (Sep 26, 2005)

Undecided said:


> Do a test on some reasonably common protocol (e.g., real 45 or 60 minutes of warmup leading into 20 minutes maximum effort) and see how it lines up.


Yep that will give the o/p a far better idea maybe stretch it out to 30 or even 60min if your fresh enough and motivated enough, nothing better than a good hard ftpt session for breakfast


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## Alex_Simmons/RST (Jan 12, 2008)

kreuzberg said:


> Hi,
> So I did this really hilly ride this morning, and my norm power for 90 minutes was 1.05
> I recently took almost 3 weeks off of riding (not all at once, intermittently throughout october) and so I assumed my FTP was pretty low and just kind of guesstimated what I thought it was (I KNOW, this is TERRIBLE!)
> So I entered that value into my WKO+. Then today, 1.05 IF for an hour and a half.
> ...


Provided you meter is correct (worth checking), then yes an IF of 1.05 for 90-min, especially for a ride that wasn't insanely hard, means your FTP is highly likely to be higher than you think it is.


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## STARNUT (Jun 19, 2005)

kreuzberg said:


> It wasn't like insanely difficult. But if I do that, my FTP would be a number that I'm pretty sure I couldn't hold for an hour. So I'm a little confused here- is this a thing where the numbers don't lie, like what I did is reflective of my true FTP? Or are there some discrepancies...


That you couldn't or wouldn't? Those are two different things. Assuming your PM is correct (as Alex pointed out, worth checking) _very_ few guys can go out, alone, and crack out a 60min best on a training ride. I can't do it. A lot of my guys can't do it and you probably can't do it. The only time I have done it was during a TT that I had made a priority race for 6 months. Even then in was less than an hour but close enough. I'm not sure _I_ could replicate that intensity and effort for that length of time routinely. 

Your FTP is to low.

Starnut


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## kreuzberg (Feb 1, 2009)

STARNUT said:


> That you couldn't or wouldn't? Those are two different things. Assuming your PM is correct (as Alex pointed out, worth checking) _very_ few guys can go out, alone, and crack out a 60min best on a training ride. I can't do it. A lot of my guys can't do it and you probably can't do it. The only time I have done it was during a TT that I had made a priority race for 6 months. Even then in was less than an hour but close enough. I'm not sure _I_ could replicate that intensity and effort for that length of time routinely.
> 
> Your FTP is to low.
> 
> Starnut


Thanks Starnut for pointing out this distinction  I talked to a friend of mine who is a coach and she said that it also has to do with your strengths. Some people can hit their threshold normalized power in a crit by going above and below threshold the whole time, but can't hold their FTP for very long (like an hour). Others can crank out their FTP power for an hour (like time trialists) but aren't very good at going from sub-threshold to above-threshold for a long time (like in a crit). I guess this kind of gives me an idea of what kind of rider I currently am?

PS- powertap is correct, I zero the torque every day before riding. It's just spin the wheel, hold the select button until "watts" starts flashing, then press it again when the watts get to zero, right?


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## Alex_Simmons/RST (Jan 12, 2008)

kreuzberg said:


> Thanks Starnut for pointing out this distinction  I talked to a friend of mine who is a coach and she said that it also has to do with your strengths. Some people can hit their threshold normalized power in a crit by going above and below threshold the whole time, but can't hold their FTP for very long (like an hour). Others can crank out their FTP power for an hour (like time trialists) but aren't very good at going from sub-threshold to above-threshold for a long time (like in a crit). I guess this kind of gives me an idea of what kind of rider I currently am?


You can ride a TT type effort if you try.



kreuzberg said:


> PS- powertap is correct, I zero the torque every day before riding. It's just spin the wheel, hold the select button until "watts" starts flashing, then press it again when the watts get to zero, right?


That that only works if the auto zero is turned on. And it just zeros the torque, it doesn't mean the meter's calibration is correct.

Two things to do are:
Check the torque reading from the hub using CPU test mode (RTM).
Do a static weight calibration check "stomp test":
http://www.midweekclub.ca/powerFAQ.htm#Q23

If calibration is right and you zero torque, then all is good.

However if calibration is out, then torque tube is suspect and readings are quite likely to be inconsistent as well as wrong.


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## kreuzberg (Feb 1, 2009)

Alex_Simmons/RST said:


> You can ride a TT type effort if you try.
> 
> That that only works if the auto zero is turned on. And it just zeros the torque, it doesn't mean the meter's calibration is correct.
> 
> ...


Ok so I zero the torque everyday, here's what I do (can you please tell me if I'm doing it right?)

Spin the crank until some power reading appears (like 20 or whatever), then, while the watts are dropping, i press and hold select until "watts" starts flashing. I release the button when the power reading goes to zero, then I press it again to make the "watts" stop flashing. Is that incorrect?

I opened up the ride in excel, and it shows when I'm coasting, watts is 0 and torque is also zero. however, at some points when I'm coasting, it shows torque as zero, but watts as -1. Is this normal, or does it indicate that the torque isn't zeroed?

And I opened up the torque setting in the CPU test mode. Top line says nothing, middle line says 5 (m) 489. What does this mean?


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## Alex_Simmons/RST (Jan 12, 2008)

kreuzberg said:


> Spin the crank until some power reading appears (like 20 or whatever), then, while the watts are dropping, i press and hold select until "watts" starts flashing. I release the button when the power reading goes to zero, then I press it again to make the "watts" stop flashing. Is that incorrect?


Yes, that's incorrect. Get the "watts" to flash (when it flashes it is showing torque values in ft-lbs), and release button, then hold down the button again for a few seconds and release when it zeros. Then tap it again to stop the flashing and return to displaying watts.


kreuzberg said:


> I opened up the ride in excel, and it shows when I'm coasting, watts is 0 and torque is also zero. however, at some points when I'm coasting, it shows torque as zero, but watts as -1. Is this normal, or does it indicate that the torque isn't zeroed?


No idea I'm afraid, I've not seen -1 in the power column before.


kreuzberg said:


> And I opened up the torque setting in the CPU test mode. Top line says nothing, middle line says 5 (m) 489. What does this mean?


Well if it's in the harness (or near hub if a wireless) and receiving a signal from the hub then it should show two lines of info. One is the torque value received from the hub, the other is the torque zero value stored in the CPU (which is the one you can see). However the torque zero value should be ~ 512+/-10 or thereabouts. If your torque zero is actually 489, then that's out of spec. Won't know until you check it with the CPU actually receiving a signal.

Even so, a stomp test is best as you can't check a slope with only one data point.


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## kreuzberg (Feb 1, 2009)

Alex_Simmons/RST said:


> Well if it's in the harness (or near hub if a wireless) and receiving a signal from the hub then it should show two lines of info. One is the torque value received from the hub, the other is the torque zero value stored in the CPU (which is the one you can see). However the torque zero value should be ~ 512+/-10 or thereabouts. If your torque zero is actually 489, then that's out of spec. Won't know until you check it with the CPU actually receiving a signal.
> 
> Even so, a stomp test is best as you can't check a slope with only one data point.


Put it in the harness, now it says (top to bottom) 0, 489, 489. So you are saying this means my power data is inaccurate, right? too high?


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## Alex_Simmons/RST (Jan 12, 2008)

kreuzberg said:


> Put it in the harness, now it says (top to bottom) 0, 489, 489. So you are saying this means my power data is inaccurate, right? too high?


It tells me you should be contacting Saris about a unit that's out of spec.


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