# Zipp 303 Durability



## bolt30 (Sep 4, 2006)

I know there is a lot of bad durability history with Zipp. But, it appears they may have addressed these issues with the new 303. I'm looking for a do everything wheel and I think the 303 would suit that well. I do a lot of climbing where I ride, but there are also long flats as well. I haver also looked at the Reynolds MV 32T UL, but think the Zipp would be better as an all arounder.

I'm wondering if Zipp has truly addressed their durability issues with their new 303. If anyone who really knows these wheels well could provide some feedback I would greatly appreciate it. For what it's worth, I weigh 137 lbs.

Thanks in advance for any feedback.


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## emartin (Mar 11, 2009)

Mine were 2009, the rear wheel cracked while sitting in the garage, Zipp warranty it...and then I sold them. No more Zipp for me!


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## bolt30 (Sep 4, 2006)

emartin said:


> Mine were 2009, the rear wheel cracked while sitting in the garage, Zipp warranty it...and then I sold them. No more Zipp for me!


Not a good sign!


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## QQUIKM3 (Apr 20, 2008)

*Zipp wheels. . .*

Are crap. I had some 303s that had issues (I'm 145 lbs). I went with Campagnolo Shamal ultras and I'm elated at their performance and durability. I've beat them for thousands of miles and they dead straight when checked on my Park truing stand.


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## roadboy (Apr 1, 2003)

we see alot of Zipp issues at the shop i work at. Cracked rims and hub problems, though those tend to be the older model hubs 2006 2007ish models. I will say Zipp is very good about warranty, however there are better products out there.


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## j-man (Sep 3, 2009)

i have a older set and never had a problem


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## mjdwyer23 (Mar 18, 2009)

I had an older set for CX that held up great and a road clincher set for a while that held up as well.


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## valleycyclist (Nov 1, 2009)

Someone recently gave me a Zipp rear wheel to look at (Team Issue aluminum clincher). It had cracks at every drive-side hole.

Zipp did not do anything to help. Their wheels are very expensive, and their customer service is not good.


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## coupon (Oct 14, 2009)

Bought a pair of 2008 model used recently. It's still holding strong.


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## framesti (Jan 26, 2009)

*zipp wheel*



valleycyclist said:


> Someone recently gave me a Zipp rear wheel to look at (Team Issue aluminum clincher). It had cracks at every drive-side hole.
> 
> Zipp did not do anything to help. Their wheels are very expensive, and their customer service is not good.


What model was this?


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## cogswell23 (Aug 15, 2007)

valleycyclist said:


> Someone recently gave me a Zipp rear wheel to look at (Team Issue aluminum clincher). It had cracks at every drive-side hole.
> 
> Zipp did not do anything to help. Their wheels are very expensive, and their customer service is not good.


I wonder when this was?

I'm not a huge fan of Zipps myself, and would probably recommend the Reynolds over the Zipps. But, FWIW, Zipp is now owned by SRAM, who is know for having some of the best customer service in the industry.


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## zipptrek (Jun 16, 2002)

I still have a set of 303's from 2002. They are still going.
Conservative estimate of atleast 18,000 miles. I weigh around 200lbs give or take 10 lbs over the years. The only problem I have ever had was with spokes breaking.
I remedied that issue by tensioning the spokes to Zipp's spec's. I have not broken one since, or in years. They got loosened up a bit after a couple yrs. My bad for not keeping them tensioned properly.


I can't say much about the newer ones though sorry.


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## Mdeth1313 (Nov 1, 2001)

With the older rims it's hit or miss. From reading some stuff at the weightweenies forum, it seems as if the zipp stuff has gotten a lot better the last year or so, but I don't ride them. I was in a shop where they were changing a tire on a 2009 zipp 303 and I have to say it looked a lot beefier than I remember them. 
That said, I had a set of reynolds dv46t wheels that I used for 5 years (and about 35,000 miles) and I ended up selling those and moving on to edge rims. I still think you can do better than zipp as far as cost, weight and reliability.


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## wankski (Jul 24, 2005)

word. i would not consider zipps personally unless they move to internal nipples... and kill the cracked spoke hole bug bear for good....

that said, they'd have to undercut the Edge 1.45/cxray/tune(or alchemy) combo by some margin to make it worthwhile, as the latter is the stand out performance/durability king in that class.


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## duboisdeflute (Sep 10, 2009)

I still have a set of 404 from 2003, for sure home made building DTswiss huggy hubs Sapim cx-ray spokes both side laced and welded on the rear. I,m 190lbs and no problem at this time , the same for Campy Neutron both set tubulars , and old set from 1999 of Campy electron clincher .


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## jrz1 (Mar 15, 2006)

First of all I am going to assume you are talking the 303 tubular not the 303 clincher. Secondly, there are major differences in the current version of the 303 tubular compared to the previous edition. The current 303 tubular is what is referred to as the version 4 model. It came out in mid 2009 so chances are the 303 that the previous poster mentioned cracked while in his garage was an early 2009 or pre version 4 model. The current version is wider, stronger, and better in every way. I own a set and have over 1000 miles on them and they are simply fantastic! Before purchasing them I did EXTENSIVE research. The only other wheel in a similiar rim depth that I would consider as good is the Edge 1.45. The Edge is probably even more durable but it is not as aero or comfortable. Also, while retail price of the Edge 1.45 and the Zipp 303's are very similiar, you can almost always find the Zipps substantially cheaper on Ebay. Check out what two independent reviewers have said about the 303's at testrider.com and glorycycles.com . Both raved about the 303 and both came to the same conclusion that the 303's are the BEST all-around wheels currently available. As to durability - just look at Paris-Roubaix and the other cobblestone races. About the only carbon rims being used are the 303's. They got to be durable to be raced there!!


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## Salsa_Lover (Jul 6, 2008)

AFAIK that 303 version 4 was targetted to the CycloCross crowd.


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## jrz1 (Mar 15, 2006)

Zipp makes three versions of the 303. A road clincher, a road tubular, and a cyclecross tubular. The ones that several pro teams rode on Paris-Rubaix (spelling?) were the road tubular version not the cyclecross. Again I would refer to the reviews on the road tubular 303 at testrider.com and glorycycles.com.


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## dadoflam (Jan 19, 2008)

The reason Fabian Cancellara had to change wheels halfway through this year's Paris Roubaix was because the rim of his Zipp 303 cracked - it would be fair to say that the 303 is not intended or suited for that type of riding and IMO the only reason that there were no failures last year was simply luck. Some of Fabian's team mates thought he was _extremely brave_ - (paraphrased with expletives removed) even attempting to use them for that race.
In my experience Zipp customer service is actually excellent (having needed to use it in relation to some Vumaquad cranks) but the only time I would consider buying and using their wheels is on a time trial bike on a flat course where aero properties really matter and relative fragility doesn't. +1 for Edge Composites rims from me


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## jrz1 (Mar 15, 2006)

Fabian was NOT the only one using the 303's. The entire Cervelo test team and many of Fabian's team-mates were also. Don't take my word for it, check out Graham Watson's photos of the event. After two years in a row as the only carbon rim in the event and several teams riding them and with at this point maybe at most one or two failures (there were at least that many failures by the traditional box rims) I would say that the new 303 has proven its durability.


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## SwiftSolo (Jun 7, 2008)

bolt30 said:


> I know there is a lot of bad durability history with Zipp. But, it appears they may have addressed these issues with the new 303. I'm looking for a do everything wheel and I think the 303 would suit that well. I do a lot of climbing where I ride, but there are also long flats as well. I haver also looked at the Reynolds MV 32T UL, but think the Zipp would be better as an all arounder.
> 
> I'm wondering if Zipp has truly addressed their durability issues with their new 303. If anyone who really knows these wheels well could provide some feedback I would greatly appreciate it. For what it's worth, I weigh 137 lbs.
> 
> Thanks in advance for any feedback.


I've got 303 clinchers (which I think are likely more durable). They are only 3 month old but have 1600 miles on them including 500 on the rough climbs and descents around Solvang. These wheels were actually built by wheelbuilder.com. They have remained without problems and have stayed true. I like the way they climb and feel they are fast. I'm using tubeless tires on them.


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## dadoflam (Jan 19, 2008)

I wasn't suggesting he was the only one - I was stating that some other members of his team, who knew what the race involved and were given the choice, steered away from using the Zipps. 
For my money if I was in the market for a wheels the take away considerations from this year's PR were not that the new 303's are durable when used for this type of application but rather that Cancellara won because he had a team member (riding other wheels) who was willing to do everything possible to drag him back to the front when his Zipp wheel failed and that instead of breaking a spoke the wheel rim cracked.


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## bolt30 (Sep 4, 2006)

*Thanks*

Just wanted to say thanks for all the feedback. In the end, I ended up going with a set of Edge 1.45 built up by Troy Watson using his Ligero SLW V2 hubs (www.ligerowheels.com). 

The new 303's indeed get great reviews. But in the end I wanted a no doubt bombproof set of wheels. Edge has clearly established this type of reputation and Troy's reputation speaks for itself. Still waiting to receive them, and it's taken longer than I would have liked, but I know they will be worth the wait in the end. I'll post some pics and my thoughts once I receive them.


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## dadoflam (Jan 19, 2008)

bolt30 - from first hand experience they will be excellent wheels


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## Mashmaniac (Jun 21, 2004)

dadoflam said:


> bolt30 - from first hand experience they will be excellent wheels


 That's his reputation as far as I'm concerned. I'd highly discourage anyone from buying from him. My experience was absoultely the worst that I've ever had.


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## bolt30 (Sep 4, 2006)

dadoflam said:


> bolt30 - from first hand experience they will be excellent wheels



Thanks. Got an e-mail from Troy yesterday that they will ship on Wednesday. So I should have them in the next couple of weeks and will post some pics.


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## bolt30 (Sep 4, 2006)

Mashmaniac said:


> That's his reputation as far as I'm concerned. I'd highly discourage anyone from buying from him. My experience was absoultely the worst that I've ever had.


Having a bad experience sucks. That being said, I did plenty of research on this and other forums and Troy's reputation as a wheel builder is outstanding. Yes, he is not great with responding to e-mails, but I knew that going into the purchase. He has been responsive enough. And while the wheels have taken a bit longer than I would have liked, I also knew that might happen going into the purchase. Troy says they will ship this coming Wednesday and I believe him.

One thing I would consider is this is the guys living. It's pretty harsh to "highly discourage" people from buying from him, IMHO. From what I have read, which is a lot, he has never ripped anyone off. Short of that I, personally, would not put something out there that could mess with his way of making a living. I don't think Troy, or any custom wheel or framebuilder, is living in a mansion off what they do. More than likely they are working their asses off to make a living. Being so should he work to improve his responsiveness and delivery times? Maybe. But that's pretty minor and not nearly reason enough, IMHO, to try and push business away from the guy. Obviously he builds a quality product or he wouldn't have people lining up to receive wheels from him, to include, from what I have read, many repeat customers. All in all I would consider my experience thus far as a positive one. But, I'm not one that expects instant gratification and measures build quality by a rapid e-mail response.


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## steve_e_f (Sep 8, 2003)

just put these on last night and went for a short 30 min ride. (it was raining but I couldn't wait).

First impressions:
The wheels are shockingly light. My first impression was actually worry: "how can these be so light and still be strong?".
The front wheel with the tire and QR is so light it feels like it must be made out of paper.

From get-go the ride felt similar to my Mavic/GP4000 25c clicher setup. Its not like I magically accelerated to 20mph with two pedal strokes.

They aren't noisy like other carbon wheels I hear in races. They are very quiet, save for the freehub, which is loud. Doesn't bother me.

I still breathe hard and my heart still beats faster when I climb with these wheels. Apparently I won't be able to stop training between races.

Descending is perceptibly different. I notice the reduced wind resistance at high speeds quite a bit, more than on the flats for sure. At first it was actually unnerving and I had to slow down because I was not used to this type of wheel feedback. The wheels "feel" less planted because they are lighter, like there is less keeping me stuck to the ground. The more I descended the more I got used to it.

Breaking is fine. Less initial bite, but a split second later the pads hook up very well. overall its good breaking. I'm just using some TRP carbon pads I had in my toolbox so far, not even the yellow Swiss Stops I plan on running. They are slightly red-ish colored.

I could feel the front wheel rub when climbing out of the saddle. Not huge rub, very slight, but there it was. I'm 177lbs.

X-Ray spokes are SO thin compared to my kyserium or neuvation spokes. Its amazing, really. Again, I wonder how strong something so thin can be, but I guess time will tell.

up a climb where I have a fastest personal time 9:21, I cut the time 36 seconds to 8:45. Placebo? Maybe. I knew I wanted a fast time so I gunned it.

I need to do more rides though because I want to do a longer climb that I have more data for and compare wattage vs. time to see what a wattage corrected time would look like when comparing trips/wheels.

All in all its to early to really conclude much besides the fact that the wheels are shockingly light and look very cool.

This being my first ride on tubulars, I can't say much about 'em yet. I have the 23c Tangentes. I planned on using Continental Competitions but I got the Tangentes with the wheels. The dimpled tires thing seems silly. The dimples are only on the contact surface of the tire, not the sidewall, and thus will wear down over time, right? Seems like marketing over substance but who knows.

I'll post more when I get more "data" and have more impressions.


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## steve_e_f (Sep 8, 2003)

one more thought:

The rims are so so SO fat. total re-adjustment of the brakes is required. I'm not sure where this leaves me if I flat in a race and throw on some pit wheels. I'll swap my mavics back on later to see if I would have any breaking power at all or if the pads would even line up.


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## MattSoutherden (Jun 24, 2009)

steve_e_f said:


> one more thought:
> 
> The rims are so so SO fat. total re-adjustment of the brakes is required. I'm not sure where this leaves me if I flat in a race and throw on some pit wheels. I'll swap my mavics back on later to see if I would have any breaking power at all or if the pads would even line up.


Do your brakes have a cam release? People running the HED wheels have been running with the cam half open by default, that way they can still open it a bit to remove the wheel or stop rubbing, but if they swap in a normal rim during a race they can close the cam fully to get goo braking.


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## steve_e_f (Sep 8, 2003)

yes they do have the cam release (zero-g) but it isn't as smooth as the shimano cam. It'll definitely have to suffice, though. The funny thing is that you don't have to open up the cam at all to get these wheels on/off because the rim is by far the fattest part of the profile, the tire is completely dwarfed by the rim width. I'll probably go 24/25 on the next set of tires.


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## Midwest Playa (Sep 12, 2008)

emartin said:


> Mine were 2009, the rear wheel cracked while sitting in the garage, Zipp warranty it...and then I sold them. No more Zipp for me!



Maybe the Bike was too heavy for the Zipps to handle LOLS

Thats funny I have never heard of a wheel cracking while sitting in the garage.

I would stick with the reynolds I have the dv3kt and no complains on this end

Midwest Playa:thumbsup:


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## steve_e_f (Sep 8, 2003)

p.s. the Cam release doesn't even provide enough adjustment. I test-fitted the mavics again yesterday and tightened down the cam but even with that adjustment the levers go to the bar before the breaks engage. holy moly the zipps are fat.

that said, I've done a half-dozen rides and two races on them now and they are fantastic race wheels. I'm used to the feel now and love how snappy they are.
I'm sure any light/deep wheel would feel like this so its not like the 303 is a magic wheel, but I'm very happy /w the upgrade so far.


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## steve_e_f (Sep 8, 2003)

a quick update:

I've been rolling on these for about a month now. Except for one ride, I haven't taken them off the bike. I picked up a few cans of Pit-Stop and left them on because I like how they feel so much that I don't like going back to the Mavics.

Of course, this doesn't really count as a long term durability test, but I've hit a few very unexpected potholes and rocks (one 3" rock that almost wrecked me) and they look fine to me. Still true.

Goods: I like how they feel a lot. They feel more nimble when accelerating, climbing, and steering. They break very well, even when wet. They look cool. Its nice to have gear on race day that makes you feel fast, even if it is possibly just a placebo.

Bads: They seem to scratch pretty easily. I should probably baby them more, but I want to USE them so they are getting some scratches from traveling in the car and bumping here and there. I can feel a small bit of flex in the rear wheel when at full gallop. The Tangente tires continue to wear fast, but I guess I should expect that. The wheel width makes swapping sorta lame. I have to use all the cam and all the barrel adjuster to compensate for the difference in width.

Thats all for now.


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## Mashmaniac (Jun 21, 2004)

> Still waiting to receive them, and it's taken longer than I would have liked



This was my experience which is why I'll never buy anything from this guy again.


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## Midwest Playa (Sep 12, 2008)

R.i.p.


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