# 2015 Roubaix bottom bracket - upgrading to ultegra crankset



## someone else (Apr 4, 2016)

Hi. New here. First thread.

I'm trying to upgrade the crankset on my 2015 Roubaix SL4 Comp Disc. It currently has a Praxis/Turn Zayante m30 50/34 compact crankset. I'm upgrading to Ultegra FC-6800 50/34.

(1) Do I have to replace the bottom bracket when I replace the crankset?

(2) Also, what special tools do I need to do this? Besides an 8mm hex to get the Praxis crank off the bike.

Thanks.


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## 11spd (Sep 3, 2015)

someone else said:


> Hi. New here. First thread.
> 
> I'm trying to upgrade the crankset on my 2015 Roubaix SL4 Comp Disc. It currently has a Praxis/Turn Zayante m30 50/34 compact crankset. I'm upgrading to Ultegra FC-6800 50/34.
> 
> ...


 What I suggest:
A good probability you have a threaded BSA bottom bracket on that bike. A quick picture would expose the bottom bracket…if bearings are external and your bearing cups are fluted like a Shimano BSA BB.
I suggest you replace your BB. An Ultegra BSA BB is cheap and will last 20K miles if you don’t ride much in the rain. Ultegra crank + BSA BB is an outstanding combination.
So depends what type of BB you have to remove the crank. Crank removal is easy with basic tools. If you have any questions…post pics here…or…contact Praxis for guidance.
Good luck


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## someone else (Apr 4, 2016)

11spd said:


> What I suggest:
> A good probability you have a threaded BSA bottom bracket on that bike. A quick picture would expose the bottom bracket…if bearings are external and your bearing cups are fluted like a Shimano BSA BB.
> I suggest you replace your BB. An Ultegra BSA BB is cheap and will last 20K miles if you don’t ride much in the rain. Ultegra crank + BSA BB is an outstanding combination.
> So depends what type of BB you have to remove the crank. Crank removal is easy with basic tools. If you have any questions…post pics here…or…contact Praxis for guidance.
> Good luck


Thanks. Here's a pic of my bike with the old Praxis/Turn crank still on it.


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## 11spd (Sep 3, 2015)

Great news for you is your pic confirms you have an English threaded BSA BB...same as used with Shimano BB's. Now...a good probability is..the Praxis spinde diameter is 24mm just like your soon to be installed Utegra crankset so you could 'try' and install your Ultegra crank using the BB you have. But I wouldn't. When pulling it apart, spend $30 more and install a fresh Ultegra BB. But if you try using your old BB...confirm current Praxis crank spline diameter with an inexpensive vernier caliper you can pick up where they sell tools, even if laterally spacing is a mm or two narrower or wider with old B, the beauty of an Ultegra crank..or 105 or DA is...it will easily accommodate this because of its adjustable straight flute spline...a truly fantastic crank design in my opinion...rock solid, easy to install.
HTH




someone else said:


> Thanks. Here's a pic of my bike with the old Praxis/Turn crank still on it.
> View attachment 316642


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## someone else (Apr 4, 2016)

Thanks so much for a prompt and helpful response. I'll stop by the local bike shop and pick one up. I had bought the new ultegra crankset, chain, and cassette online so I really didn't want to bother them with questions when I didn't buy those parts from them. Thanks for your help.


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## someone else (Apr 4, 2016)

So I guess what I'm reading about these bottom brackets is that there are three different kinds of threading? English... Italian... and BB72? Is that right? And I guess there is a special wrench for bottom brackets that Park Tools makes. And is there special grease that I need to put in there as well? And also torque only to a certain point?


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## 11spd (Sep 3, 2015)

someone else said:


> Thanks so much for a prompt and helpful response. I'll stop by the local bike shop and pick one up. I had bought the new ultegra crankset, chain, and cassette online so I really didn't want to bother them with questions when I didn't buy those parts from them. Thanks for your help.


Just tell them you want an Ultegra Bottom Bracket for a English Threaded BB. You also need the wrench to remove the cups and reinstall new BB. Please note, they have oppose threads on each side of the bike.



*Normal R.H. thread on Left side of bike* 
*Opposite/Reverse L.H. thread on Right (drive) side of bike*


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## 11spd (Sep 3, 2015)

someone else said:


> So I guess what I'm reading about these bottom brackets is that there are three different kinds of threading? English... Italian... and BB72? Is that right? And I guess there is a special wrench for bottom brackets that Park Tools makes. And is there special grease that I need to put in there as well? And also torque only to a certain point?


Only one you have to be concerned with is English Threaded...not Italian threaded or Press Fit BB72.

Here is the Park Tool you need for your BB:
https://www.amazon.com/Park-Tool-Bottom-Bracket-Hollowtech/dp/B009W68CCQ

Note: the little black serrated knob on the other end is to adjust the lateral preload on your Ultegra crank finger tight prior to torqueing the two pinch bolts for left crank arm to spec. Nose around the web for all torques....you can swag the 30 ft-lbs or so for the Park Wrench I reference. You can also buy a large special socket with 16 ribs that fits over the BB cups you can connect to a torque wrench...either solution. If you have any question...go to youtube and search Ultegra crank installation and a video or five will pop up.

No special grease is required. I use standard automotive grease...Mobil 1 sold at autoparts stores. Any grease will do. Apply to all surfaces....BB outer theads...and BB shell inner threads and on spindle of crank before pushing it through bearing cups.

HTH

PS: I will give you a tip that will really help you that is missed on the web and on youtube. To me, too many hacks work on bikes and don't understand stress and strain. Once you pull the crank off your bike, take is down off the repair stand and set the bike firmly on the ground straddling your top tube applying pressure downward on the top tube. That is the most secure way to both remove and install threaded BB cups. Best leverage and least amount of assault to the frame. Many do it on the bike stand which puts too much stress on the frame and hard to get the proper torque to the BB both off and back on. Let the tires push into the ground...not the frame stress on a stand is my advice.


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## schima (Jan 19, 2011)

bad news, the rbx comp disc has an osbb (bb30). my wife rides this bike and the praxis works bb is for bb30. so you need either a praxis works adapter for shimano cranks and the matching tool to remove the installed m30 pw cups. or the better and durabel solution is to press in a sram/truvativ bb30/bsa adapter (with locite 609) and you can use every bsa bottom bracket! this is what i did with the bike of my wife and with many other bb30 bikes. no problem, never!


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## 11spd (Sep 3, 2015)

schima said:


> bad news, the rbx comp disc has an osbb (bb30). my wife rides this bike and the praxis works bb is for bb30. so you need either a praxis works adapter for shimano cranks and the matching tool to remove the installed m30 pw cups. or the better and durabel solution is to press in a sram/truvativ bb30/bsa adapter (with locite 609) and you can use every bsa bottom bracket! this is what i did with the bike of my wife and with many other bb30 bikes. no problem, never!


Not his bike bro. Take a look at the picture. The bottom bracket shown is threaded. The telltale sign are the grooves around the 'external bearing cups'. BB30 bikes have no external bearing cups and no grooves. The grooves are for a 16 pin spanner wrench to unthread the cups. Spesh makes and has made a lot of BB30 bikes. Not his bike.


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## schima (Jan 19, 2011)

what you mean with 'BB30 bikes have no external bearing cups and no grooves'? the crank is a praxis works zayante and the bottom bracket is a praxis works adapter, and the pw adapter has the bearings outside. never seen that before? 
https://www.bike24.com/1.php?content=8;product=125045;menu=1000,4,23

well he will see what bb the bike has (and we if he posts picts).


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## SilverStar07 (May 18, 2011)

11spd said:


> Not his bike bro. Take a look at the picture. The bottom bracket shown is threaded. The telltale sign are the grooves around the 'external bearing cups'. BB30 bikes have no external bearing cups and no grooves. The grooves are for a 16 pin spanner wrench to unthread the cups. Spesh makes and has made a lot of BB30 bikes. Not his bike.


This is not true, the Roubaix has a BB30 and not a threaded, the Ultegra BB will not work. The splines in the picture are from the Praxis BB30/PF30 bottom bracket, seen here. https://www.praxiscycles.com/product/m30-conv-bb30-pf30/ If he really wants to "upgrade" to Ultegra he will have to run either adapter cups with a BB30 bottom bracket, which in my opinion is a down grade as they always creak and make noise. Or the other option is to run a conversion Bottom Bracket such as Praxis https://www.praxiscycles.com/conversion-bb/ so he is still not using the Ultegra BB. I have Ultegra cranks on a BB30 frame and am using adapter cups and it is annoying how much noise they make. I will be upgrading to Praxis BB this winter.

SS-


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## 11spd (Sep 3, 2015)

My bad guys. Color me astounded that from the factory Specialized is taking a BB30 frameset and using a Praxis conversion sleeve to mount what turns out to be a BSA Praxis crank. Basically they are selling out to their supplier. In theory that sleeve plus longer spindle crank should be more costly...BB30 bearings are cheaper, and heavier and less stiff. But apparently the deal they cut with Praxis which gives Praxis good marketing for both crank and sleeve wins the day over any allegiance to BB30...their BB of choice on their flagship Sworks bike. OP, I stand corrected. I had no idea Specialized would "sell out" like this. Specialized through the years has mixed and matched BB's on their different level Roubaix's. For example in 2015...same year as your Comp OP, Specialized spec'ed BSA for their Roubaix Expert SL4 which is a model above the Comp. 
Pretty clear its all about dollars for them and has nothing to do with any performance difference between BB's....to spec BB30 on a lower level bike like the Comp and then 'convert' it to a different BB type with a sleeve. They could have easily made the Comp model in BSA like they do the non disk Expert.
So, my apology. Last two posters are correct. This is the first time I have ever seen a 'conversion' sleeve on a bike that came 'converted' at the factory just so Praxis could put what they market on their bike.

PS: So OP...what to do. Leave the Praxis conversion sleeve in place for your new Ultegra crank. They cost about $80 USD to replace.
Be sure to measure the spindle diameter of the Praxis crank once removed. If it measures 24.0mm, your Ultegra crank will be plug and play. Ride it until the bearings fail.


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## 11spd (Sep 3, 2015)

SilverStar07 said:


> This is not true, the Roubaix has a BB30 and not a threaded, the Ultegra BB will not work. The splines in the picture are from the Praxis BB30/PF30 bottom bracket, seen here. https://www.praxiscycles.com/product/m30-conv-bb30-pf30/ If he really wants to "upgrade" to Ultegra he will have to run either adapter cups with a BB30 bottom bracket, which in my opinion is a down grade as they always creak and make noise. Or the other option is to run a conversion Bottom Bracket such as Praxis https://www.praxiscycles.com/conversion-bb/ so he is still not using the Ultegra BB. I have Ultegra cranks on a BB30 frame and am using adapter cups and it is annoying how much noise they make. I will be upgrading to Praxis BB this winter.
> 
> SS-


SS.
The book is out on the Praxis sleeve and a comment if I may because it seems that you want to move toward the Praxis sleeve for your Ultegra crank because your BB30 creaks. Word up. Some Praxis sleeves creak too. Reason is, one side of the Praxis sleeve is a very light metal on metal press just like BB30.

To save you $50 bucks, when your creaky BB30 wear out....my advice....don't waste your money on $80 Praxis sleeve. Install fresh cheap ABEC-5 BB30 bearings in your frameset properly with Locitite. There is nothing wrong with Wheel Mfg adapters to mount your Ultegra crank. Its your bearings that are creaking in the BB shell which can be church quiet with Loctite. With proper Ultegra crank preload adjustment, the Wheel Mfg spacers can't rattle.

There are kluges SS and there are kluges. Pick one. But for my money, I would save $50 and Loctite BB30 bearings and ride in silence with excellent Ultegra crank. Having now studied the Praxis sleeve design which includes anecdotal reports out inf the field, the Praxis sleeve is only slightly better than BB30 in terms of creaking and worse if you are a big power rider. But...if you Loctite BB30 bearings, there is no issue with BB30. This step sadly is missed by many including many bike shops for expediency. 

Praxis could have done a better job designing their sleeve. Three things limit the design:
1. metal on metal interface without Loctite on one side that can creak
2. a tolerance sensitive lateral lock out when torqueing halves together that can apply an insufficient lateral force to keep the sleeve in place...especially problematic with a strong rider and low tolerance BB shell width.
3. an O ring on one side of the sleeve to take up tolerance and tolerance stack up affects lateral compression.

They could have designed their sleeve to be less sensitive to bike BB shell width tolerance.


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## SilverStar07 (May 18, 2011)

It's not the bearings that creak it is the adapter sleeves that take the diameter from 30mm to 24mm for Shimano cranks that creak. The Praxis Conversion BB isn't a different press in BB with adapters, it essentially turns a BB30 into a threaded BB for Shimano cranks. It does this using a collet system where the outside bearing cups have sleeves that screw together inside the bottom bracket shell. One of these sleeves expands as the other is screwed in causing it to "lock-in" to the BB shell preventing any movement. I think you are looking at their standard BB30 (they call it M30) and not their conversion BB which is different, https://www.praxiscycles.com/conversion-bb/ . Granted not all frames can use this Conversion Bottom Bracket and have to use the adapters. Luckily this is for my Felt which has a standard BB30 shell. You have to remember Shimano uses a 24mm diameter shaft on their cranks not 30mm so standard BB30 bottom brackets don't work with them.

And as far as the Praxis Conversion bottom bracket goes (not their standard one), the only complaints I have heard/read about is installation and removal can sometimes be a pain. And believe me I have done a ton of research on it. From everything I have gathered it is the best solution out for going from a BB30 to a 24/22mm crankset.

SS-


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## 11spd (Sep 3, 2015)

SilverStar07 said:


> It's not the bearings that creak it is the adapter sleeves that take the diameter from 30mm to 24mm for Shimano cranks that creak. The Praxis Conversion BB isn't a different press in BB with adapters, it essentially turns a BB30 into a threaded BB for Shimano cranks. It does this using a collet system where the outside bearing cups have sleeves that screw together inside the bottom bracket shell. One of these sleeves expands as the other is screwed in causing it to "lock-in" to the BB shell preventing any movement. I think you are looking at their standard BB30 (they call it M30) and not their conversion BB which is different, https://www.praxiscycles.com/conversion-bb/ . Granted not all frames can use this Conversion Bottom Bracket and have to use the adapters. Luckily this is for my Felt which has a standard BB30 shell. You have to remember Shimano uses a 24mm diameter shaft on their cranks not 30mm so standard BB30 bottom brackets don't work with them.
> 
> And as far as the Praxis Conversion bottom bracket goes (not their standard one), the only complaints I have heard/read about is installation and removal can sometimes be a pain. And believe me I have done a ton of research on it. From everything I have gathered it is the best solution out for going from a BB30 to a 24/22mm crankset.
> 
> SS-


Forgive me for saying you are wrong, but you are wrong. You wrote, "It's not the bearings that creak it is the adapter sleeves that take the diameter from 30mm to 24mm for Shimano cranks that creak."

Either can creak and for different reasons and neither have to creak 'ever'. There are probably 50,000 BB30's out there with Wheel Mfg Adapters with Shimano crank and only a very small fraction of them creak and that is due to assembly error which is common. BB30 + Wheel Mfg Adapter + Shimano crank is one of the most popular combinations today among race bikes including Specialized bikes. They never have to creak. So if yours creaks it isn't the parts...unless your bearings are bad, you don't know how to set it up and many more than not know how to do it properly and I know because I have fixed countless screw ups with this combination coming out of bike shops from club riders.


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## masont (Feb 6, 2010)

11spd said:


> My bad guys. Color me astounded that from the factory Specialized is taking a BB30 frameset and using a Praxis conversion sleeve to mount what turns out to be a BSA Praxis crank. Basically they are selling out to their supplier. In theory that sleeve plus longer spindle crank should be more costly...BB30 bearings are cheaper, and heavier and less stiff. But apparently the deal they cut with Praxis which gives Praxis good marketing for both crank and sleeve wins the day over any allegiance to BB30...their BB of choice on their flagship Sworks bike. OP, I stand corrected. I had no idea Specialized would "sell out" like this. Specialized through the years has mixed and matched BB's on their different level Roubaix's. For example in 2015...same year as your Comp OP, Specialized spec'ed BSA for their Roubaix Expert SL4 which is a model above the Comp.
> Pretty clear its all about dollars for them and has nothing to do with any performance difference between BB's....to spec BB30 on a lower level bike like the Comp and then 'convert' it to a different BB type with a sleeve. They could have easily made the Comp model in BSA like they do the non disk Expert.
> So, my apology. Last two posters are correct. This is the first time I have ever seen a 'conversion' sleeve on a bike that came 'converted' at the factory just so Praxis could put what they market on their bike.
> 
> ...


It's funny how you're still in here talking like you have the slightest idea what you're talking about.


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## goodboyr (Apr 19, 2006)

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## masont (Feb 6, 2010)

someone else said:


> Hi. New here. First thread.
> 
> I'm trying to upgrade the crankset on my 2015 Roubaix SL4 Comp Disc. It currently has a Praxis/Turn Zayante m30 50/34 compact crankset. I'm upgrading to Ultegra FC-6800 50/34.
> 
> ...


Short answers:

1. Yes, you have to replace the bottom bracket when you replace the crankset. The bottom bracket you have is designed only for the Praxis crankset in a BB30 frame. 

2. You will need the special Praxis works bottom bracket tool - the M30. Theirs is not compatible with Shimano's. If you're just going to ditch the crankset, I wouldn't buy the tool, I'd just take it to your LBS (call to confirm they have the tool) and they should be able to pop it off for less than the $25 tool. Unless you're planning on putting this crankset back on something, in which case it's probably worth having around. 

There's a lot of muck in this thread. If you want me to clear any of it up feel free to ask. If you don't, those are good answers to your questions.


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## 11spd (Sep 3, 2015)

masont said:


> Short answers:
> 
> 1. Yes, you have to replace the bottom bracket when you replace the crankset. The bottom bracket you have is designed only for the Praxis crankset in a BB30 frame.
> 
> ...


OP,
I did some digging on Praxis website because Mason sounded pretty convinced that the BB you have will not fit a new Ultegra crankset and he is quite right.
More insidious proprietary $h!t Praxis does to make their crank only work with their BB so they can sell more BB's. They put a step down from 30mm to 28mm for their M30 crank which is used on BB30 bikes with the sleeve you show OP in the picture you posted. So no, that Praxis sleeve only works with the Praxis crankset and not with a 24mm Ultegra crankset.

_Praxis crank + Praxis BB specs:
30MM DRIVE – 28MM NonDrive – The M30 bottom bracket family is for the M30 cranks. The M30 spindles are 30mm and then have a step-down to 28mm to lock on the Non Drive bearing. These use a drive side wave-washer for the bearing preload, and a 30MM Drive bearing with a step down to 28MM Non Drive bearing. The Zayante, Alba, Girder and Cadet all use the Praxis M30 bottom bracket. _

And yes, the Praxis BB cannot be removed with the std Shimano BBT-9 spanner wrench because the bearing cups are larger in O.D.

OP, here is the tool....two tools actually to remove the Praxis sleeve. One side has to be held and torqued against the other side to remove the collet sleeve or the sleeve will rotate within the BB30.

Praxis M30 Bottom Bracket Tool - Fair Wheel Bikes


In summary OP, you have a couple of different options to mount a new Ultegra crank on your BB30 bike.
1. Obtain the proper Praxis sleeve with 42mm OD for BB30 and 24mm inside diameter bearing bore for Shimano crank spindle.

or:

2. Install BB30 bearings + Wheel Mfg Adapters....this is by far the more common installation and if done properly won't creak and in fact it has a lower probability of creaking compared to a Praxis BB if you follow Praxis's instructions.

Those are your options if you must have an Ultegra crank on your BB30 bike.

Me, OP...what would I do? I would install a BB30 crank and not an Ultegra crank on your bike. No adapters, no sleeve...or ride the Praxis crank and BB combo which is decent, just a bit heavy.


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## masont (Feb 6, 2010)

11spd said:


> OP,
> I did some digging on Praxis website because Mason sounded pretty convinced that the BB you have will not fit a new Ultegra crankset and he is quite right.
> More insidious proprietary $h!t Praxis does to make their crank only work with their BB so they can sell more BB's. They put a step down from 30mm to 28mm for their M30 crank which is used on BB30 bikes with the sleeve you show OP in the picture you posted. So no, that Praxis sleeve only works with the Praxis crankset and not with a 24mm Ultegra crankset.
> 
> ...


OP, FYI, #2 is not an option. The Praxis crank is designed to work with their own BB, not with pressfit bearings.


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## 11spd (Sep 3, 2015)

masont said:


> OP, FYI, #2 is not an option. The Praxis crank is designed to work with their own BB, not with pressfit bearings.


You didn't understand Mason. Option #2 is directed toward installing an Ultegra crank and not preserving his current Praxis crank. That is what the OP's thread is about, changing cranks. Option #2 is the most common practice in the industry to marry an Ultegra crankset to a BB30 and if installed with some basic guidelines, unlike what SS wrote, won't creak. I know because I have fixed 30 of them...without changing parts.


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## masont (Feb 6, 2010)

11spd said:


> You didn't understand Mason. Option #2 is directed toward installing an Ultegra crank and not preserving his current Praxis crank. That is what the OP's thread is about, changing cranks. Option #2 is the most common practice in the industry to marry an Ultegra crankset to a BB30 and if installed with some basic guidelines, unlike what SS wrote, won't creak. I know because I have fixed 30 of them...without changing parts.


Got it. I was confused because you said bb30 bearings, which will only work with bb30 cranksets. You meant to refer to a conversion bottom bracket, I assume?


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## 11spd (Sep 3, 2015)

masont said:


> Got it. I was confused because you said bb30 bearings, which will only work with bb30 cranksets. You meant to refer to a conversion bottom bracket, I assume?


Careful mason. I think you know this stuff so giving you a pass. 
Words have meaning. For example you said just above, bb30 bearings which only work with bb30 cranksets. That is wrong bro and I think you know that's wrong. BB30 bearings can work with a long spindle 24mm dia crank like Ultegra which is designed for a BSA BB when you use Wheel Mfg adapters which is Option #2. As I stated...a swag is, there are 50,000 race bikes in the US with this combination and I have worked on several. I did not mean to refer to a conversion BB.


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## SilverStar07 (May 18, 2011)

OP, 11spd is correct for what is the minimum needed to "upgrade" to an Ultegra crankset. Although everybody makes these adapters not just Wheels Manufacturing. There is nothing wrong with the Wheels Manufacturing adapters. And yes this is the very common bottom bracket to crankset interface, possibly the most common . But do yourself a favor and Google "BB30 Adapter Creaking" and see the 11,000+ references to BB creak that has been traced to this interface. Is this creak causing damage, most likely no, I just don't like it when my bikes make noise. And are all bb30 with adapters going to make noise, no, you might get lucky. But if you are going to take it apart to replace the crankset why not upgrade the bottom bracket as well to a system that is a proven better solution. 11spd may have worked on and fixed many of these bikes and it is possible to get the creaking or noises to stop, I have done it on mine but I am expecting the noises to come back. They actually didn't show up until about 500-600 miles. I also know mine where the adapters, because I have run a set of BB30 cranks with the existing bearings to eliminate the adapters and the noise went away, so it's not the bearings in my case.

These are the adapters we are talking about BB30 Adapter for 24mm Spindle Cranks (Shimano, FSA, etc.) which in my opinion is a band-aid fix. But for $50 more you can eliminate the need to for these adapters and use a Bottom bracket specifically designed for what you want to do by using the Praxis conversion BB I linked to in an earlier post, the Wheels Manufacturing conversion Bottom Bracket BB30 Outboard ABEC-3 BB for 24mm Cranks (Shimano) - Black or the many others out there.


SS-


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## 11spd (Sep 3, 2015)

SilverStar07 said:


> OP, 11spd is correct for what is the minimum needed to "upgrade" to an Ultegra crankset. Although everybody makes these adapters not just Wheels Manufacturing. There is nothing wrong with the Wheels Manufacturing adapters. And yes this is the very common bottom bracket to crankset interface, possibly the most common . But do yourself a favor and Google "BB30 Adapter Creaking" and see the 11,000+ references to BB creak that has been traced to this interface. Is this creak causing damage, most likely no, I just don't like it when my bikes make noise. And are all bb30 with adapters going to make noise, no, you might get lucky. But if you are going to take it apart to replace the crankset why not upgrade the bottom bracket as well to a system that is a proven better solution. 11spd may have worked on and fixed many of these bikes and it is possible to get the creaking or noises to stop, I have done it on mine but I am expecting the noises to come back. They actually didn't show up until about 500-600 miles. I also know mine where the adapters, because I have run a set of BB30 cranks with the existing bearings to eliminate the adapters and the noise went away, so it's not the bearings in my case.
> 
> These are the adapters we are talking about BB30 Adapter for 24mm Spindle Cranks (Shimano, FSA, etc.) which in my opinion is a band-aid fix. But for $50 more you can eliminate the need to for these adapters and use a Bottom bracket specifically designed for what you want to do by using the Praxis conversion BB I linked to in an earlier post, the Wheels Manufacturing conversion Bottom Bracket BB30 Outboard ABEC-3 BB for 24mm Cranks (Shimano) - Black or the many others out there.
> 
> ...


SS,
BB30>Wheel Mfg Spacers>Ultegra crank combo never has to creak. Technically, BB30 with BB30 crank never has to creak either. Your experience and countless creaks on the web are due to assembly error.
If you want to drill down on proper assembly, why don't you post your steps for BB30>Wheel Mfg Spacers>Ultegra crank assembly procedure. Define what you do when when you put it together. Only a handful of steps in proper sequence. Installation is fast and easy with this combo, but if you miss a step it will creak like so many on the web.

Proper installation 'can't creak' and will stay that way for many thousands of miles riding.

Book is now out on the Praxis conversion sleeve. Yes, this sleeve is quiet for many if not most but has reported to creak for others. This is because it has a metal to metal press interface on non drive side where the sleeve doesn't radially expand which relies not only on the radial BB30 bore ID to sleeve OD tolerance but also the BB30 shell width which determines stack up when the sleeve is torqued to lock out for amount of radial expansion on BB30 ID bore on Drive side. To me, the sleeve is a waste of money...$80 bucks every time the bearings wear out when you can get higher quality ABEC-5-7 BB30 bearings for a fraction of that. Your money tho.


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## crit_boy (Aug 6, 2013)

11spd said:


> Proper installation 'can't creak' and will stay that way for many thousands of miles riding.


Unless the BB30 was manufactured out of spec - which is why PF30 was "invented" - which still creaks b/c delrin sleeves only hold up for so long - which is why wheels mfg and the like made alloy BBs that press fit without delring sleeves - which eventually creak - which is why why wheels mfg and the like made alloy BBs that press fit and thread together. . .


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## 11spd (Sep 3, 2015)

crit_boy said:


> Unless the BB30 was manufactured out of spec - which is why PF30 was "invented" - which still creaks b/c delrin sleeves only hold up for so long - which is why wheels mfg and the like made alloy BBs that press fit without delring sleeves - which eventually creak - which is why why wheels mfg and the like made alloy BBs that press fit and thread together. . .


Sorry bro but you are mixing way too many metaphors.
Subject is BB30 and not PF30. Yes, PF30 was 'improved' but not perfected by integrating bearings into press fit sleeves and separate delrin sleeves were a disaster but BB30 has nothing to do with PF30. There is a reason Spesh discontinued their narrow version of PF30 and replaced it with BB30 for all their top race bikes...BB30 is more reliable. But common for BB30 to creak if improperly installed. Most BB30 framesets have robust enough tolerances to not creak with proper installation technique which is often not applied and why so many complaints.


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## crit_boy (Aug 6, 2013)

11spd said:


> Sorry bro but you are mixing way too many metaphors.
> Subject is BB30 and not PF30. Yes, PF30 was 'improved' but not perfected by integrating bearings into press fit sleeves and separate delrin sleeves were a disaster but BB30 has nothing to do with PF30. There is a reason Spesh discontinued their narrow version of PF30 and replaced it with BB30 for all their top race bikes...BB30 is more reliable. But common for BB30 to creak if improperly installed. Most BB30 framesets have robust enough tolerances to not creak with proper installation technique which is often not applied and why so many complaints.


My post had no metaphors. 

Based on your totally correct advice from this thread, I have no doubt you are right. BB30 doesn't suffer from manufacturing tolerance issues or issues of bonding a metal cylinder into a carbon bb shell. The thousands of bb30 creaking posts and threads are total user error. The niche industry of BB30 replacements is completely marketing based. 

Specialized changing to BB30 does not mean BB30 is good. It means they finally gave up on OSBB/PF30. Maybe in 5 more years, they will go back to a threaded BB.


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## 11spd (Sep 3, 2015)

crit_boy said:


> My post had no metaphors.
> 
> Based on your totally correct advice from this thread, I have no doubt you are right. BB30 doesn't suffer from manufacturing tolerance issues or issues of bonding a metal cylinder into a carbon bb shell. The thousands of bb30 creaking posts and threads are total user error. The niche industry of BB30 replacements is completely marketing based.
> 
> Specialized changing to BB30 does not mean BB30 is good. It means they finally gave up on OSBB/PF30. Maybe in 5 more years, they will go back to a threaded BB.


Pretty much agree with what you wrote. Perhaps we even agree that threaded BSA is better than BB30. But...BB30 isn't bad. I believe it is highly misunderstood. Its a profoundly simple solution to mounting a crankset. The average guy who works on his own bikes is fully capable of taming BB30 and riding a quiet bike. He just doesn't know how.


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## goodboyr (Apr 19, 2006)

Or she........

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## goodboyr (Apr 19, 2006)

11spd said:


> SS,
> BB30>Wheel Mfg Spacers>Ultegra crank combo never has to creak. Technically, BB30 with BB30 crank never has to creak either. Your experience and countless creaks on the web are due to assembly error.
> If you want to drill down on proper assembly, why don't you post your steps for BB30>Wheel Mfg Spacers>Ultegra crank assembly procedure. Define what you do when when you put it together. Only a handful of steps in proper sequence. Installation is fast and easy with this combo, but if you miss a step it will creak like so many on the web.
> 
> ...


Just had occasion to remove a praxis conversion bb from a cannondale evo himod. ( Person was changing from Shimano compatible srm to quarq bb30). This was in service for three seasons. No creaking or noises reported. After cleanup here is what ds and nds bb shell looks like. Note scuff marks on ds side of plastic sleeve, nds side is unmarked. Plastic sleeve is needed for pf30 install. First pic is nds.

















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## someone else (Apr 4, 2016)

Thanks for mentioning the opposite threading. So I'm just now getting around to working on the bike. I got the necessary tools and bottom bracket.

So to get the left side crank off (not the chain-ring side) with the 8mm hex nut wrench, is that normal threading (righty-tighty, lefty-loosy)?... or opposite threading? (See pic where I have it circled in red.) 

Thanks in advance.


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## goodboyr (Apr 19, 2006)

The instructions for this crank are on the praxiscycles.com site. It is regular thread, (not reverse) torqued to 48-52 nM. So, left turn (counterclockwise) but it's on pretty tight.

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