# Now Athena EPS



## charlieboy (Sep 10, 2003)

I suppose dreams are now closer to reality for some!
http://www.bikeradar.com/road/news/article/campagnolo-athena-eps-11-speed-launched-34613/


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## pulser955 (Apr 18, 2009)

That's cool. If the price is not crazy high I could see using this for my next build.


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## joeyb1000 (Feb 15, 2011)

Since I just upgraded my good bike from 10s to Super Record EPS, I'll have to get this for my spare bike.


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## kmak (Sep 5, 2011)

joeyb1000 said:


> Since I just upgraded my good bike from 10s to Super Record EPS, I'll have to get this for my spare bike.


Did you replace everything? Or what all did you upgrade? Cost?

Thanks, considering what to do about my 12 month old Chorus 11 groupset.


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## flatlander_48 (Nov 16, 2005)

charlieboy said:


> I suppose dreams are now closer to reality for some!
> Campagnolo Athena EPS 11-speed Launched - BikeRadar


Semi-old news as it showed up in industry brochures last December...


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## joeyb1000 (Feb 15, 2011)

kmak said:


> Did you replace everything? Or what all did you upgrade? Cost?
> 
> Thanks, considering what to do about my 12 month old Chorus 11 groupset.


I bought the entire groupo. Given the cost, it seemed silly not to replace the 10s cranks and brakes.

You could just get an upgrade kit and sell your Chorus stuff on Ebay


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## flatlander_48 (Nov 16, 2005)

kmak said:


> Did you replace everything? Or what all did you upgrade? Cost?
> 
> Thanks, considering what to do about my 12 month old Chorus 11 groupset.


My move to 11sp Chorus from a 10sp Centaur/Chorus mix was driven by, in part, making it easier to go to EPS. For me to go to EPS, I would need to replace the derailleurs, the shifters and add the battery/computer unit and wiring. This takes some of the financial sting out needing to buy an entire group at once...


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## Karbon Kev (Sep 7, 2009)

what the hell happened to chorus EPS?


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## ultraman6970 (Aug 1, 2010)

No idea but if campagnolo doesn't do a low cost EPS they will find themselves in troubles. At this point wouldnt surprise me if shimano comes up with 105 Di2 next year and leave sora as the only mechanic group. An just move away from cables in the road. 

Campagnolo as usual (i love campy just in case), doesn't looks like know where to go. Why is say this, well simple, they have been trying to be the top of the market but for example, they dont have chorus eps yet. Then they come up with triple again being that with compact is more than enough from the standing point of view of a racer. Then you have the old timers that can't climb and that need a triple eventhought compact is more than enough for their needs IMO, so they came up with triple again maybe with the pressure of people asking for a comeback in the triple line up. 

IMO this weird decisions shows to me that the company as usual doesn't know too well what to do. If they define themselves as a top end racing bikes parts manufacturers then triple should be taken off the lines and focus in other stuff like maybe get rid off record and chorus since they have athena eps or maybe just re think some of the models and just take them out for good. For example to me veloce (mechanic), athena eps, and super record eps would do. 

Electronic is the way to go, specially in the OEM market of new bikes. The problem is as usual, how much this new EPS group will cost?


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## flatlander_48 (Nov 16, 2005)

A few points to note:


1) Campagnolo announced Athena EPS and the 11sp triple within the industry last December. There was no mention of a Chorus version at the time (I talked with a couple of the Campagnolo people for 20-30 minutes).

2) In 11sp mechanical, the hierarchy is Super Record, Record, Chorus and Athena, as we know. If you look at the weights of the EPS systems, there is bigger gap between Record and Athena than between Super Record and Record. I would take that to mean that there is space for a Chorus system, if they decide to build one.

3) I don't know where Athena EPS will be priced, but I would think it's pretty certain it will be well under Ultegra Di2. However, you have to careful when comparing prices. When Athena EPS comes out, its price should be compared to what Ultegra Di2 was when it was first introduced. It has been out long enough that its price has settled, so a comparison to a newly introduced Athena EPS doesn't make any sense.

4) A triple crank does make a lot of sense; not for competition, but for us regular folk. When people want to disparage triples, relative climbing ability is talked about. However, descending is also important. There's a hill not far from my home where I could descend at 35-40mph and not spin out when I used to have a triple. I have not tried it yet with the compact, but I think it is more when it will spin out; not if.


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## Kristatos (Jan 10, 2008)

flatlander_48 said:


> 3) I don't know where Athena EPS will be priced, but I would think it's pretty certain it will be well under Ultegra Di2. However, you have to careful when comparing prices. When Athena EPS comes out, its price should be compared to what Ultegra Di2 was when it was first introduced. It has been out long enough that its price has settled, so a comparison to a newly introduced Athena EPS doesn't make any sense.


This sounds like the kind of thinking that limits Campy to die hard fans. Most people compare prices that they'd pay today, because they are making a purchase in the present moment, not six months ago or whatever. 

I suspect for anyone to consider Athena EPS it has to be priced same as a Shimano 105 Di2 set, and deliver comparable value. I already think Campy blew it pricing EPS as high as they did - I see more Shimano Di2 bikes every weekend in the group rides and races but have not seen a single Campy bike make the switch yet.


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## flatlander_48 (Nov 16, 2005)

Kristatos said:


> This sounds like the kind of thinking that limits Campy to die hard fans. Most people compare prices that they'd pay today, because they are making a purchase in the present moment, not six months ago or whatever.


No, you missed the point. And, what you said sounds like someone who would just as soon see Campagnolo go bust. Prices change over time. Parts are most expensive at introduction time. Over the next 6 to 12 months, prices will come down. A price comparison between a NEW part and a MATURE one is inappropriate. Would you expect to pay the same price for a new car at introduction, 6 months into its model year or at the end of its model year? If you don't like the price at introduction, wait a few months.

So, what you are saying is that it is OK for Shimano to introduce new products at list price, but not Campagnolo. How does that make sense? Shimano could almost give away parts as the bike division is a *$2 Billion* business yearly. Campagnolo is about *$150 Million* yearly.



Kristatos said:


> I suspect for anyone to consider Athena EPS it has to be priced same as a Shimano 105 Di2 set, and deliver comparable value. I already think Campy blew it pricing EPS as high as they did - I see more Shimano Di2 bikes every weekend in the group rides and races but have not seen a single Campy bike make the switch yet.


Curious. How would you know what a 105 Di2 group would cost when it doesn't exist?

Also, back in the spring, a couple of the UK online stores had Record EPS cheaper than Dura-Ace Di2. And, understand that for whatever reason, Campagnolo parts in the UK have a different pricing structure than here in the USA. Don't know why that is, but remember that the USA isn't a big deal for Campagnolo. It only represents something like 17% of their business.

Not every Shimano rider is moving to Di2. The folks on Di2 represent a subset of the total population. Likewise, the same is true for those who ride Campagnolo mechanical, but the numbers are much smaller. That's why you haven't seen anyone on EPS. Your data sample is too small.


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## Kristatos (Jan 10, 2008)

flatlander_48 said:


> That's why you haven't seen anyone on EPS. Your data sample is too small.


Maybe but there are plenty of Campy bikes around my area including both of mine, so if I don't see anyone upgrading to EPS I don't know who is. I hope to see EPS sets out on the road, and I'd love one myself but right now Shimano seems to have the edge in terms of bang for the buck and Campy seems destined to remain a long ways behind if as you wrote Campy will price Athena initially close to Ultegra and by the time "street" prices start to look compelling Shimano has a 105 Di2 gruppo out for significantly less than Athena EPS.


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## kmak (Sep 5, 2011)

I don't know how you think of DuraAce Di2 vs. Ultegra Di2 vs Record EPS in terms of quality, but I just bought a complete Record EPS groupset for $3,150 shipped. Prices are coming down.


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## flatlander_48 (Nov 16, 2005)

Kristatos said:


> Maybe but there are plenty of Campy bikes around my area including both of mine, so if I don't see anyone upgrading to EPS I don't know who is. I hope to see EPS sets out on the road, and I'd love one myself but right now Shimano seems to have the edge in terms of bang for the buck and *Campy seems destined to remain a long ways behind if as you wrote Campy will price Athena initially close to Ultegra* and by the time "street" prices start to look compelling Shimano has a 105 Di2 gruppo out for significantly less than Athena EPS.


That doesn't square with what I *ACTUALLY* said: _"I don't know where Athena EPS will be priced, but I would think it's pretty certain it will be *well under Ultegra Di2*."_

Please comment on what I really said. Anyway, if there is to be a 105 Di2, at best it would be early next year. That would allow roughly 6 months for Athena EPS prices to settle.

But, look at the larger picture. Record EPS roughly corresponds to Dura-Ace Di2. If they had done Chorus EPS, it would correspond approximately to Ultegra Di2. But, they skipped a level for EPS and didn't do Chorus. What that does is allow Campagnolo to position Athena EPS (pricewise) between Ultegra Di2 and where ever 105 Di2 might be priced. Plus, remember that with Athena EPS you get the same battery and control unit as Super Record and Record. Campagnolo doesn't have to be "cheaper than", just "competitive with".

Now, consider bang for the buck. There are other factors that you don't consider. Factors like the EPS rear derailleur that decouples. If you lose power or have a catastrophic electronic failure, you can manually move the derailleur so that you can still get home. It will also decouple if you fall on it. This was inadvertently confirmed at the introduction in Sicily when one of the journalists fell. The *only* commonality between Dura-Ace and Ultegra Di2 is the battery. Super Record, Record and Athena EPS share the same battery and control electronics. You cannot troubleshoot malfuntions with Di2 unless you buy a $300 System Checker. With EPS, the diagnostics are internal.

If Campagnolo were to start selling products strictly on price, then they wouldn't be the company that is revered by so many around the world. People buy Campagnolo because they want to. It isn't by default; it's by choice.


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## Kristatos (Jan 10, 2008)

Sorry if I mistook your comments - it's always hard to have a discussion in these forums. I agree that Campy shouldn't only sell on price. Shimano seems to have clear cut positioning and have created two distinct segments from a price perspective with Di2, with the 3rd segment being 105 early next year. If Campy ends up with Record and SR EPS both higher priced than DA Di2, Chorus higher than Ultegra, and Athena higher than 105 Di2 they are basically in the same place where they've been with mechanical sets all these years, and it doesn't take them into any new territory is all I'm saying. If the goal is to stay small then fine, but why not strive for more? Why not provide a price competitive group somewhere in the mix and still have the higher end stuff for the fanatics that want it? Just seems to me like they are missing an opportunity but everyone sees things different. 



flatlander_48 said:


> That doesn't square with what I *ACTUALLY* said: _"I don't know where Athena EPS will be priced, but I would think it's pretty certain it will be *well under Ultegra Di2*."_
> 
> Please comment on what I really said. Anyway, if there is to be a 105 Di2, at best it would be early next year. That would allow roughly 6 months for Athena EPS prices to settle.
> 
> ...


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## flatlander_48 (Nov 16, 2005)

Kristatos said:


> Sorry if I mistook your comments - it's always hard to have a discussion in these forums. I agree that Campy shouldn't only sell on price. Shimano seems to have clear cut positioning and have created two distinct segments from a price perspective with Di2, with the 3rd segment being 105 early next year. If Campy ends up with Record and SR EPS both higher priced than DA Di2, Chorus higher than Ultegra, and Athena higher than 105 Di2 they are basically in the same place where they've been with mechanical sets all these years, and it doesn't take them into any new territory is all I'm saying. If the goal is to stay small then fine, but why not strive for more? Why not provide a price competitive group somewhere in the mix and still have the higher end stuff for the fanatics that want it? Just seems to me like they are missing an opportunity but everyone sees things different.


The way it sits is that Super Record EPS is priced higher than Dura-Ace Di2. Campagnolo posititioned the products this way as it is designed and built to be superior to the Shimano product. Personally, I can't say because I've ridden S/R EPS but not D-A Di2. Record EPS is the true competitor for Dura-Ace Di2. And, as I said, there was pricing in the UK earlier this year where Record was a bit cheaper than Dura-Ace Di2.

Campagnolo has never really gone for mass-marketing. It is not what they do or want to do. They guard their technology very closely and go to great lengths to maintain that. Manufacturing a lot in Asia would be required and it would mean loosening their grip on proprietary information. Before someone jumps up and says that Campagnolo does currently manufacture in Asia, I will say that that is true. All of the Fulcrum line and a few other bits are made in Asia. However, the vast majority of parts are made in Italy and Romania. The difference is manufacturing requiring proprietary knowledge tends to be done in Italy and labor-intensive assembly tends to be done in Romania.


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## Tumppi (Sep 26, 2005)

Got today full Athena EPS group. This group is ending to my wife bike. The wiring connectors are different so no possible to mix the group with super record / record.


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## power1369 (Mar 17, 2003)

Where did you get the gruppo from?


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## Tumppi (Sep 26, 2005)

From Finnish importer. Also some shops in Germany have it on stock. Neckar-bike.de has probably the lowest prize??

Here are the Athena EPS weights: Weight Weenies • View topic - Athena 11 EPS


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## cda 455 (Aug 9, 2010)

Tumppi said:


> Got today full Athena EPS group. This group is ending to my wife bike. The wiring connectors are different so no possible to mix the group with super record / record.


Awesome!


Are you going to start a build thread with that jewelry  ?!


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## Tumppi (Sep 26, 2005)

cda 455 said:


> Awesome!
> 
> 
> Are you going to start a build thread with that jewelry  ?!


Nope. I might post pic to Look forum when build is ready.


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## joeyb1000 (Feb 15, 2011)

Awesome. I'm curious to know if the functionality is exactly the same because I can't figure out why the connectors are different.

It's interesting that you are putting it on your wife's bike. I think women will be the biggest benefactors of electronic shifting because it requires less force.


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## joeyb1000 (Feb 15, 2011)

US importers have Athena EPS in stock


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## Tumppi (Sep 26, 2005)

Campagnolo make the connectors different that you can't mix the groups. Athena EPS kit is only 76g heavier than Super Record EPS kit. Go figure?? I bet it works as good as record / super record.

First I thought I put Athena EPS to my cyclocross bike, but when my wife tested my LOOK 695 EPS she "forced" me to put Athena EPS to her bike. :mad2:


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## Tumppi (Sep 26, 2005)

After long winter finally got time to finish my wife " EPS bikeproject". 
Post LOOK pics here - Page 49


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