# Which bike to get



## iridium_red (Jul 2, 2010)

Guys, 

This is my first post and I am a newbie to road bikes. I am looking at used bikes to, first of all get used to road bikes, and then if I like it, go up in models and features after some time. So in my search I came across 2 bikes that I like - 1. schwinn world or world sport. It has alloy wheels bars stem etc with 12 speed I think. This costs $170 used. 2. trek, a custom build with reynolds 531 chromo frame. It too has 12 speed but sells for $300 used. The trek is much lighter than the schwinn, and both fit me well.

As a newbie what should I be looking for? What are your thoughts on both? Any help is appreciated.

Thanks. I am learning quite a bit from this forum - thanks to you all.


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## iridium_red (Jul 2, 2010)

Hey guys, I was also wondering if anyone could tell me the equivalents of the Trek 1.1 in Cannondale, Specialized and Motobecane? I am trying to see which ones to test ride and possibly buy within the next few days. Thanks guys.


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## PJ352 (Dec 5, 2007)

iridium_red said:


> Guys,
> 
> This is my first post and I am a newbie to road bikes. I am looking at used bikes to, first of all get used to road bikes, and then if I like it, go up in models and features after some time. So in my search I came across 2 bikes that I like - 1. schwinn world or world sport. It has alloy wheels bars stem etc with 12 speed I think. This costs $170 used. 2. trek, a custom build with reynolds 531 chromo frame. It too has 12 speed but sells for $300 used. The trek is much lighter than the schwinn, and both fit me well.
> 
> ...


Both bikes have steel frames and while the material is known have a nice ride quality, it's also prone to rust over time. If possible, check the tubing internally for signs of prominent rust. It usually is most prevalent in the bottom bracket area and getting inside is difficult, so pulling the seat post and shining a light down the seat tube will do about the same.

Beyond that, the bars should turn freely, without play or binding as should the wheels. One thing you can do is hold the saddle with one hand, apply the front brake with the other and push/ pull the bike forward back and listen/ feel for play in the headset area. Another potential trouble spot are the cranks/ bottom bracket. Hold one pedal in each hand and alternate pushing/ pulling side to side. There should be no play. 

Shifting should be relatively smooth and execute shifts to all cogs/ rings, and the brakes should... well... work!  

Overall, the bike should operate relatively quietly. Odd noises aren't usually a good sign. Check the tires for cracking, but to be safe I'd consider the price of your LBS giving the bike a once over, lubing and adjusting anything that needs it when making an offer.

Last, but not least, as best you can, _make sure the bike fits _and is relatively comfortable. If it isn't, take a pass, because there are lots of other choices out there that will fit. 

HTH...


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## PJ352 (Dec 5, 2007)

iridium_red said:


> Hey guys, I was also wondering if anyone could tell me the equivalents of the Trek 1.1 in Cannondale, Specialized and Motobecane? I am trying to see which ones to test ride and possibly buy within the next few days. Thanks guys.


Are you asking about new bikes now?


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## ghost6 (Sep 4, 2009)

At those prices, just get whatever is lighter and fits you best. The Trek sounds like more of a deal than the Schwinn. I'd make sure the components actually work. Test ride them. Oh, ditto to what PJ said.


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## iridium_red (Jul 2, 2010)

Hellp PJ352, thanks for those valuable pointers; I intend to follow your tips.


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## iridium_red (Jul 2, 2010)

Hi PJ352, Yes I was also looking at new bikes as those would remove the hassles and hidden dangers of a used bike as I am not used to one and would not know what and how to look for any obvious mistakes other than the ones you mentioned. 

Do you perhaps have info on bikes that are in similar range to the Trek 1.1 from cannondale, specialized and others? I believe the 1.1 is a starter bike and am interested to "Test ride" similar ones from other manufacturers to see which one fits me best.

Thanks a lot for your input, greatly appreciate it.


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## PJ352 (Dec 5, 2007)

iridium_red said:


> Hi PJ352, Yes I was also looking at new bikes as those would remove the hassles and hidden dangers of a used bike as I am not used to one and would not know what and how to look for any obvious mistakes other than the ones you mentioned.
> 
> Do you perhaps have info on bikes that are in similar range to the Trek 1.1 from cannondale, specialized and others? I believe the 1.1 is a starter bike and am interested to "Test ride" similar ones from other manufacturers to see which one fits me best.
> 
> Thanks a lot for your input, greatly appreciate it.


If you can manage it, I completely agree that going new and availing yourself of a reputable LBS's services offers many advantages. Fit is key, and you'll get sizing assistance along with a warranty, tune up's, adjustments (to bike and fit) and many LBS's offer discounts on accessories with bike purchases. Just make sure you deal with the better shops.

As far as other bikes in the general range of the Trek, the only model I know of from C'dale is the CAAD8 S8 which retails at $899. The Specialized Secteur and Allez both offer models in the $740 range. There's also the Jamis Ventura Sport that might be worth a look, and there are others (Felt may have some) so take some time to peruse their websites.


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## dahut (May 13, 2010)

You'll get a lot of answers, but Ive noticed that name bikes will cost you. 
I mean, I can get a better equipped bike for less or equal money if I accept a 'non name' and do some of the set-up my..self.

Take the Motobecanes.They are made in Asia now, not France - more properly, the frames are. These are the same frames that are sold to other makers, too. Components are Japanese Shimano, hung on the frames in assembly shops with the name stickers added at final assembly. 
Now, some of the big names have their frames spec'd out, to their own design. But this is seen mostly at the higher price points. To quote Paul Dorn in the "Bike to Work Guide":
_
"Usually a bikes brand name isnt as important as its individual parts. ...As large American companies consolidate the industry, brand names are becoming confusing and irrelevant.
The only time name brands count is when dealing with high end specialty companies that make custom frames and parts for their bikes.
Rather than be concerned with name, buy a bike based on the quality of components and the quality of the frame."_

Ive been looking at bikes lately a little differently. With care a bike will last ten years. I see the name brands that have the same frame materials and forks as their lesser kin (Mercier, Motobecane, etc,), but have lesser grade components than these others... for more money. I'm fairly certain that below the $1000 level, these same bikes all pretty much spec'd the same and likely made in the same places. So, if that is so, (not counting the high end models) why all the hubbub over the name?

The one defining difference seems to be the source of the bike, itself. An LBS can service a bike, help the customer to make smart choices and honor warranties, things other sources are limited in. But given a little sense and basic mechanical skills, even that starts to fade.


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## PJ352 (Dec 5, 2007)

Some of what you offer is true, and some... not so much.

For example, Motobecanes aren't the Motobecane's of the past. They're frames built and assembled overseas and Bikes Direct (who purchased the rights to use the name) slaps the decal on the downtube and markets them. Same with Dawes, Windsor and some others in their line. 

Overall, does BD offer a better bike for the money? Questionable, because (despite what you posted) many of their mid to lower end frames and forks aren't of the quality of the name brands. If you doubt this, check out Specialized Allez or Secteur at your LBS and compare the welds to that of a comparably priced BD bike - no contest, the Specialized bikes are of higher quality, and that's just one example.

So, beyond a lower quality frameset with (selectively) higher quality components, what exactly does BD provide in the way of services? Nothing. Other than a possible email response to a sizing question, they take no responsibility in a riders sizing requirements. Guess wrong and you either keep an ill fitting bike or return it at your expense. Need final assembly, tune ups, adjustments (to bike or fit) - you may as well head to a bike shop, because BD isn't going to help. Again, if you doubt this, go to their website and read their recommendations for final assembly. You guessed it - your LBS.

What you really get with the online retailers is a bike in a box, shipped to your door. If that's the only level of service and support you're looking for and are willing to take the risks involved, then buying online might be for you, but I'd advise against it.


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## dahut (May 13, 2010)

PJ352 said:


> Some of what you offer is true, and some... not so much.
> 
> For example, Motobecanes aren't the Motobecane's of the past. They're frames built and assembled overseas and Bikes Direct (who purchased the rights to use the name) slaps the decal on the downtube and markets them. Same with Dawes, Windsor and some others in their line.
> 
> ...


Which is pretty much what I said. Remember, I drew a distinction between common and high end frames. And we've said nothing about after the sale warranties or resale value. The big name bike will hold sway over the lesser in these regards. 

But, simply looking at a weld is not an accurate measure. One cannot determine a weld's soundness in aluminum tubing without special test equipment. Even the best looking aluminum weld can be flawed. Each frame is a complex, hand made item, so each will look different. 

Experience is the final key to welding AL. Im not really good at it, even after some years of practice. I'm willing to wager that the Asian welders making today's frames are vastly more experienced than one might expect. After all, they do it day in and day out and have decades of bike making to fall back on. It is highly unlikely that non destructive testing is performed on ANYBODY's frames, except on the plus ultra models. So, it is this experience that is mostly relied on. 

But the fact remains that welds in aluminum are more prone to being flawed than in almost any other common metals. It doesn't matter whose sticker is on them and looking at them is no absolute measure.

A chap here, who claimed to have much experience in the cycle making field, once commented that the big names have their frames made in the same factories, by the same welders that make the others.** The materials don't change much, in either regard. He said the "name brands" spec their frames to their own ideas, which is mostly what sets them apart. Otherwise, they come from the same shops and the same materials. 

I am not knocking the much ballyhooed LBS or what they offer. Some love them and others not so much - I agree that they offer a lot. Especially for the nimrod that doesn't know the front end from the back of a bicycle. For them, the online sources are bound to be a worry.

But I have yet to see substantial proof that in the entry level market, there is much difference in frames that holds up to scrutiny. There is a lot of banter and subjective opinion, the old "Chevy vs Ford "argument. Some of that counts for something, but some of it must be discounted, too, as mere opinion.

So lets ask, can someone show us hard, _*independent*_ data that supports an entry level frame with the "big name" on it is heads away better than one with, say, Mercier on it?

** Cannondale is said to make their own frames for the non custom market, in PA.


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## PJ352 (Dec 5, 2007)

dahut said:


> Which is pretty much what I said. Remember, I drew a distinction between common and high end frames. And we've said nothing about after the sale warranties or resale value. The big name bike will hold sway over the lesser in these regards.
> 
> But, simply looking at a weld is not an accurate measure. One cannot determine a weld's soundness in aluminum tubing without special test equipment. Even the best looking aluminum weld can be flawed. Each frame is a complex, hand made item, so each will look different.
> 
> ...


Some of your 'facts' hold true, but your conclusions don't necessarily follow. 

For example, just because two frames are made in the same factory doesn't necessarily mean they're of the same quality. The design elements, QC (or lack there of), the expertise of the welder, care in assembly, etc. all dictate the end result. 

As far as the quality of frame welds is concerned, for certain, aesthetics don't guarantee a quality weld, but I don't see this as a pass/ fail issue. I see it more as two frames that in all liklihood will endure for a reasonable life cycle, with the name brand having an edge in overall quality and warranty assistance, if needed. The bulk of the initial (or upfront) costs are for the numerous services offered by the LBS, that continue post purchase. 

There was a post not too long ago where a BD buyer received a steel fork with a bent dropout. They emailed BD (you can't call) and their response was to bend it back with an adjustable wrench. IMO this speaks volumes for how they view their products and the importance they place on customer service. And this philosophy of just selling a bike in a box continues with near zero fit assistance - a big disadvantage (especially to noobs) when buying online. 

Finally, if you're saying that that noobs buying entry level bikes would do well to patronize their LBS's, but online stores match the quality of those frames, it seems a moot point given that the remaining market (more experienced, or seasoned cyclists) wouldn't generally be interested in an entry level bike. 

As far as your statement:
_...can someone show us hard, independent data that supports an entry level frame with the "big name" on it is heads away better than one with, say, Mercier on it?_ 

I would respond: IMO the onus is on the online retailers to prove the opposite. The big names, along with some of the smaller ones (and their reputable dealers) have already proven themselves.


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## LMWEL (Jan 5, 2010)

That was some lively and entertaining banter there guys ... But , to the OP, Giants entry level bike, the Defy 3 might interest you . http://www.giant-bicycles.com/en-US/bikes/model/defy.3/3882/37101/


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## dahut (May 13, 2010)

PJ352 said:


> Some of your 'facts' hold true, but your conclusions don't necessarily follow.
> 
> For example, just because two frames are made in the same factory doesn't necessarily mean they're of the same quality. The design elements, QC (or lack there of), the expertise of the welder, care in assembly, etc. all dictate the end result.
> 
> ...


Great response. It's time well spent and thanks for taking the time. 
Sadly, it still does'nt get us any closer. Noobs do well at bike shops, those same shops service the customer, online sellers, by default, cannot support the sale - there is no news in any of these things. 

I'd just like to see independent data - certainly not something likely biased from one side or the other.


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## PlatyPius (Feb 1, 2009)

Scott Speedster S50 - $700-$750
Raleigh Grand Sport - $700-$750
Raleigh Sport (steel fork) - $600-$650
Jamis Ventura Sport - $625


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## PJ352 (Dec 5, 2007)

dahut said:


> Great response. It's time well spent and thanks for taking the time.
> *Sadly, it still does'nt get us any closer*. Noobs do well at bike shops, those same shops service the customer, online sellers, by default, cannot support the sale - there is no news in any of these things.
> 
> I'd just like to see independent data - certainly not something likely biased from one side or the other.


I suspect one thing we'd agree on is that there is far more 'subjective' in the cycling world than there is independent data. But that aside, IMO we don't have to agree. What's been hashed out here may serve as food for thought for either the OP or those on the fence trying to make an educated purchasing decision, so... it's all good.


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## dahut (May 13, 2010)

PJ352 said:


> I suspect one thing we'd agree on is that there is far more 'subjective' in the cycling world than there is independent data. But that aside, IMO we don't have to agree. What's been hashed out here may serve as food for thought for either the OP or those on the fence trying to make an educated purchasing decision, so... it's all good.


Enlightenment... ahhhhhh ( :thumbsup


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## iridium_red (Jul 2, 2010)

Wow, this turned out to be much more informative than I intended.. thanks guys.

Thanks for everyone who suggested good bikes. I am going to read reviews and test out some of them before my purchase this week. Will update soon.

Thanks guys. You are the best!!!


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## mtrider05 (Aug 8, 2009)

iridium_red, thanks to PJ's advice I'm selling my 56cm Trek 1.5. If you're interested, shoot me a PM.


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## PJ352 (Dec 5, 2007)

dahut said:


> Enlightenment... ahhhhhh ( :thumbsup


Yeah, for me it occurred sometime around 1985.


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## iridium_red (Jul 2, 2010)

Hey everyone, thanks for all your advice. I got a Trek 1.2 this evening. I am excited to take it out for my first ride in the morning tomorrow. I got a 2009 model that was around $700. So I guess it was a good price for a decent starter bike. 

I wanted to thank you for your help and suggestions.


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## iridium_red (Jul 2, 2010)

Hey everyone, thanks for all your advice. I got a Trek 1.2 this evening. I am excited to take it out for my first ride in the morning tomorrow. I got a 2009 model that was around $700. So I guess it was a good price for a decent starter bike. 

I wanted to thank you for your help and suggestions.


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## PJ352 (Dec 5, 2007)

iridium_red said:


> Hey everyone, thanks for all your advice. I got a Trek 1.2 this evening. I am excited to take it out for my first ride in the morning tomorrow. I got a 2009 model that was around $700. So I guess it was a good price for a decent starter bike.
> 
> I wanted to thank you for your help and suggestions.


Congrats on the new bike!! :thumbsup:


Ride often and ride safe.. and post pics if/ when you can.


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## dahut (May 13, 2010)

iridium_red said:


> Hey everyone, thanks for all your advice. I got a Trek 1.2 this evening. I am excited to take it out for my first ride in the morning tomorrow. I got a 2009 model that was around $700. So I guess it was a good price for a decent starter bike.
> 
> I wanted to thank you for your help and suggestions.


Good price on a good bike. Was it new, a used trade, etc?


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## iridium_red (Jul 2, 2010)

Thanks PJ. I will upload pics soon.


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## LMWEL (Jan 5, 2010)

*Nice*



iridium_red said:


> Hey everyone, thanks for all your advice. I got a Trek 1.2 this evening. I am excited to take it out for my first ride in the morning tomorrow. I got a 2009 model that was around $700. So I guess it was a good price for a decent starter bike.
> 
> I wanted to thank you for your help and suggestions.


Congratulations ! I almost bought the very same bike . It's a nice one . I can't wait to see the pics .


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## iridium_red (Jul 2, 2010)

Hi everyone,

I got home from work today and took my bike for my third ride in a week. On the way back home, it was too late to see, but I ran over some glass pieces on the shoulder :mad2: I swerved and the front tyres missed it but the back tyres didn't. I immediately thought I was in trouble. So the inevitable happened - I got a flat rear tyre. I could actuall hear the hissing when the air escaped from the tyre. The glass piece was very small and the hole is not much bigger than a pin head's.

So my question is - can I fix it myself. I like the do-it-yourself things, and is this one of them. If not, how much can I expect a LBS to charge? Also is it better to upgrade to puncture resistant tyres? Would love to hear your inputs.

Thanks guys. I hope I can get it fixed tomorrow so that I can take it out Sat morning.


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## PJ352 (Dec 5, 2007)

I see no reason why you shouldn't be able to fix the flat yourself. As you mentioned, flats are inevitable, so knowing how to repair them is (IMO) essential. 

We all have slightly different methods of doing so, but because I place a priority on getting back to riding ASAP, I just replace the tube with a new one and bring the old one home to patch later. If you haven't done so already, get a saddle bag (or similar), spare tubes, a patch kit, tire levers, a mini pump and/ or CO2. 

Puncture resistant tires might be worth a look, but keep in mind 'resistant' still doesn't mean you'll _never_ flat or shouldn't be well versed in reparing them when they do occur. 

Lastly, I can't offer an opinion on what LBS's charge, because I've always just fixed flats myself. And when you're miles from home (or a LBS) they're of little help.


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## qatarbhoy (Aug 17, 2009)

I have a Trek 2.1 with stock Bontrager Race Lite tyres, they have been resistant to punctures (only one so far, after many 100s of kms - I ran over a tiny but sharp sliver of steel from a truck's burst tyre). I doubt the tyres you have need changing.


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## dahut (May 13, 2010)

iridium_red said:


> Hi everyone,
> 
> I got home from work today and took my bike for my third ride in a week. On the way back home, it was too late to see, but I ran over some glass pieces on the shoulder :mad2: I swerved and the front tyres missed it but the back tyres didn't. I immediately thought I was in trouble. So the inevitable happened - I got a flat rear tyre.  I could actuall hear the hissing when the air escaped from the tyre. The glass piece was very small and the hole is not much bigger than a pin head's.
> 
> ...


Not to put too delicate a point on it, you will have to learn to change your own tires, fix flats, etc. It is a rite of passage, so to speak, and to be honest - only you can make that passage. There is no other way to legitimately assume the title of "cyclist." 
To do otherwise, would be like a chef that never went into the kitchen. He could call himself such, but everyone would soon know the truth.

Besides you got lucky this time - you were able to make it home. The next time you may be at the farthest leg in your ride. No tire is genuinely puncture proof, anyway, and they usually pick the most inconvenient times to blow out. It is best to have them, that is certain. They do provide _some_ insurance.

But there is a universal law that states: " A tire or tube will always crap out at the most inconvenient time."
It may happen where you are in a dead zone and may not have a cell signal. There may be NO LBS anywhere near you... there may indeed be nothing nearby. Cycling is, at its core, a one man show. You are pretty much on your own - it is at that moment you share a kinship with other pioneers, those which faced their own challenges, alone.

So, can you do it yourself? Absolutety. I'll go so far as to say you must.


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## bismo37 (Mar 22, 2002)

iridium_red said:


> Hi everyone,
> 
> I got home from work today and took my bike for my third ride in a week. On the way back home, it was too late to see, but I ran over some glass pieces on the shoulder :mad2: I swerved and the front tyres missed it but the back tyres didn't. I immediately thought I was in trouble. So the inevitable happened - I got a flat rear tyre. I could actuall hear the hissing when the air escaped from the tyre. The glass piece was very small and the hole is not much bigger than a pin head's.
> 
> ...


Fixing flats is no biggie. Just takes practice. Make sure you carry a spare inner tube, a patch kit and a pump on your rides. Here's Park Tool's website link for fixing flats. You may be able to find youtube videos if that's better. 

http://www.parktool.com/repair/readhowto.asp?id=100


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## PlatyPius (Feb 1, 2009)

iridium_red said:


> Hi everyone,
> 
> I got home from work today and took my bike for my third ride in a week. On the way back home, it was too late to see, but I ran over some glass pieces on the shoulder :mad2: I swerved and the front tyres missed it but the back tyres didn't. I immediately thought I was in trouble. So the inevitable happened - I got a flat rear tyre. I could actuall hear the hissing when the air escaped from the tyre. The glass piece was very small and the hole is not much bigger than a pin head's.
> 
> ...


Everyone should learn how to fix flats.
a) If you're miles from anywhere, you NEED to know how to do it.
b) Shops don't really like doing it any more than you do.

What a shop charges to fix a flat is related to how much they hate changing tubes. Most of the shops around here charge $5-$6 to replace the tube, plus the $ for the tube. ($5 for a tube at my shop. I've seen up to $10 for a normal tube.) A certain bike shop on a major rail-trail in Indy charges $20 + tube to fix a flat ($26 total) simply because they really, really hate replacing tubes.


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## iridium_red (Jul 2, 2010)

Thanks everyone, once again, for your thoughts. I do have a patch kit that I bought for my mountain bike a while ago but never had the need to use it till now. I will give that a try.

But my apologies for a basic queastion - how do I fix the tyre hole? I understand fixing the tube, but how do I go about for the outer tyre?

Also can you suggest good websites I can buy the supplies - spare tube, hand pump, etc? 

Thanks. Appreciate your help.


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## PlatyPius (Feb 1, 2009)

iridium_red said:


> Thanks everyone, once again, for your thoughts. I do have a patch kit that I bought for my mountain bike a while ago but never had the need to use it till now. I will give that a try.
> 
> But my apologies for a basic queastion - how do I fix the tyre hole? I understand fixing the tube, but how do I go about for the outer tyre?
> 
> ...


If the hole is small, don't worry about it.
If the hole is the size of a ball-point pen tip, then put a tube patch on it or boot the tire with a small piece of Tyvek (house wrap).
If the hole is any bigger than that, replace the tire.


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## iridium_red (Jul 2, 2010)

Hi Platypius,

The hole is the size of a ball point pen tip, maybe a little bigger. But I will try patching it the same way as the tube. I will give it a shot tonight.

Thanks.


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## dahut (May 13, 2010)

iridium_red said:


> Hi Platypius,
> 
> The hole is the size of a ball point pen tip, maybe a little bigger. But I will try patching it the same way as the tube. I will give it a shot tonight.
> 
> Thanks.


Thats the spirit! :thumbsup:


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## iridium_red (Jul 2, 2010)

Hi everyone,

Since I didn't have the tools necessary to remove the tube, and not wanting to use a flat-head screwdriver to remove the tube, I went to the LBS I got the bike from. The guy took it out in under a minute, which made me wonder about the amount of practice I needed. Anyways, the hole on the tube was nowhere near the hole on the tyre. The tyre hole must have been another tear that I didn't notice. So he replaces the tube and the bike is functioning again. 

I was wondering what websites I can use to get a good deal on the tyre repair kit - spare tubes, tools to remove the tube, etc.

Im also took some pics on my phone which I will upload soon.

Thanks for your help.


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## PlatyPius (Feb 1, 2009)

iridium_red said:


> Hi everyone,
> 
> Since I didn't have the tools necessary to remove the tube, and not wanting to use a flat-head screwdriver to remove the tube, I went to the LBS I got the bike from. The guy took it out in under a minute, which made me wonder about the amount of practice I needed. Anyways, the hole on the tube was nowhere near the hole on the tyre. The tyre hole must have been another tear that I didn't notice. So he replaces the tube and the bike is functioning again.
> 
> ...


The bike shop you just left...

Tire levers are about 3 bucks. Tube is 5 bucks. Seat bag to hold it all is $15. CO2 inflater is about $15. Or you can buy a kit that has it all (Innovations) for $30. SRAM also has a new "jersey pocket" kit that's around $26.


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## sunggak (Jul 23, 2010)

*carry a new tire*



iridium_red said:


> Hi everyone,
> 
> So my question is - can I fix it myself. I like the do-it-yourself things, and is this one of them. If not, how much can I expect a LBS to charge? Also is it better to upgrade to puncture resistant tyres? Would love to hear your inputs.
> 
> Thanks guys. I hope I can get it fixed tomorrow so that I can take it out Sat morning.



I had the same kind of experience. I had a flat tire on my hybrid bike with puncture resistant tires the first day I took for a ride. Puncture resistant tires do not work very well with glasses. Luckily I had watched how to repair a flat on Youtube and was carrying repair kit. So I was able to fix the tube at the spot. But I recommend you carry a new tube. It will save you time. Do not forget to carry a pump too. Some people put a tire liner between tube and tire and say it works well.


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## iridium_red (Jul 2, 2010)

*Shoes + pedals - good deal?*

Hi all,

I came across these shoes and pedals. What are your thoughts - are they good, recommend? 

http://www.pricepoint.com/detail/13...am=3075515&zmas=1&zmac=30&zmap=285 SETXM4 KIT

Where can I look for good shoes? I started riding longer and thought these would be a good investment.

Also uploaded are my pics that are long overdue. 

http://picasaweb.google.com/mukundm/TREKBike?locked=true#

Thanks for helping me choose. Love the bike - handles great and makes me want to take it for a ride everytime I look at it.

Cheers.


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## PJ352 (Dec 5, 2007)

iridium_red said:


> Hi all,
> 
> I came across these shoes and pedals. What are your thoughts - are they good, recommend?
> 
> ...


I advise against buying shoes online. Like helmets, you really need to try them on (with cycling socks) to assess fit. Also, if you work with your LBS, they can demo some pedal systems, then (once chosen) help with cleat placement/ adjustment. It's all an integral part of your bike fit, so they'll provide valuable services.

_Nice bike_.. enjoy!! :thumbsup:


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## iridium_red (Jul 2, 2010)

*Group rides*

Thanks for the reply PJ. I thought of trying out my size in a LBS and then buying online if cheaper, but you make a good point about fit. I will try to do that in the next couple of days.

Another question, if you don't mind. I saw a few bike clubs around my area. I want to join them for group rides. Any suggestions on what I should have before I join them - what equipments they use, accessories, clothing, shoes that I should have to keep up with the group and somethings that experienced riders would recommend? I am yet to buy a bike shorts and shoes/ pedals, which I am assumes is a given in these groups. Anything else?

Thanks.


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## PlatyPius (Feb 1, 2009)

iridium_red said:


> Thanks for the reply PJ. I thought of trying out my size in a LBS and then buying online if cheaper...


That would be a total d-bag move.

If people keep using bike shops as "try-on" annexes for online ordering, how long before even more local bike shops close? I honestly can't believe the number of people I see advocating/doing such things on the various bike forums.

Moral Compass = Broken.


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## PJ352 (Dec 5, 2007)

PlatyPius said:


> That would be a total d-bag move.
> 
> If people keep using bike shops as "try-on" annexes for online ordering, how long before even more local bike shops close? I honestly can't believe the number of people I see advocating/doing such things on the various bike forums.
> 
> Moral Compass = Broken.


I agree with you, but in the OP's defense he was merely offering his initial thoughts on the topic. Once presented with sound reasons for going the LBS route, he agreed.

For certain, there are posts here that I'm at odds with, but IMO the beauty of the beginner's corner (and forum, in general) is to offer counterpoints to people who have a genuine interest in learning from those more experienced, or simply share a differing viewpoint. While I understand your dismay as LBS owner, the forum does present you an opportunity to offer reasons why cyclists benefit from patronizing LBS's, and that's a _good_ thing.

End mini-rant.


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## PJ352 (Dec 5, 2007)

iridium_red said:


> Thanks for the reply PJ. I thought of trying out my size in a LBS and then buying online if cheaper, but you make a good point about fit. I will try to do that in the next couple of days.
> 
> Another question, if you don't mind. I saw a few bike clubs around my area. I want to join them for group rides. Any suggestions on what I should have before I join them - what equipments they use, accessories, clothing, shoes that I should have to keep up with the group and somethings that experienced riders would recommend? I am yet to buy a bike shorts and shoes/ pedals, which I am assumes is a given in these groups. Anything else?
> 
> Thanks.


While there are no 'rules' for attire/ pedal systems on group rides, generally speaking, the higher the abilities, the more likely cycling specific attire and clipless pedals will be part of the picture. As a noob to road riding, you'll want to join up with riders of similar (or slightly higher) abilities to start. Dress comfortably and don't fret over whatever pedals you're now using. As far as 'keeping up', the motor dictates that. 

If there's a contact number or the LBS is supporting the rides, call or visit, explain your situation, fitness level and ask general info (drop/ no drop, average speed, duration). Also, have the required tools and knowledge to fix flats and other minor problems, should they occur. 

Other than that, be at the start on time, introduce yourself to the organizer and members and use good judgement once underway, knowing (and keeping within) your limits and abilities.


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## Fluidprawn (Jul 8, 2010)

PlatyPius said:


> That would be a total d-bag move.
> 
> If people keep using bike shops as "try-on" annexes for online ordering, how long before even more local bike shops close? I honestly can't believe the number of people I see advocating/doing such things on the various bike forums.
> 
> Moral Compass = Broken.


Does your shop offer price matching?


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## PlatyPius (Feb 1, 2009)

Fluidprawn said:


> Does your shop offer price matching?


Within reason, yes. As long as the online price isn't lower than my cost...


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## Trek2.3 (Sep 13, 2009)

I had a flat while waiting to start a ride in the LBS parking lot.
To save time I let them replace it. Time 4 minutes. Cost: repair $6, Tube $6.95.
I think that's a good deal.


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## PlatyPius (Feb 1, 2009)

Trek2.3 said:


> I had a flat while waiting to start a ride in the LBS parking lot.
> To save time I let them replace it. Time 4 minutes. Cost: repair $6, Tube $6.95.
> I think that's a good deal.


Tube: $5
Labour: $5
Tax: $0.35


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## iridium_red (Jul 2, 2010)

PJ352 said:


> While there are no 'rules' for attire/ pedal systems on group rides, generally speaking, the higher the abilities, the more likely cycling specific attire and clipless pedals will be part of the picture. As a noob to road riding, you'll want to join up with riders of similar (or slightly higher) abilities to start. Dress comfortably and don't fret over whatever pedals you're now using. As far as 'keeping up', the motor dictates that.
> 
> If there's a contact number or the LBS is supporting the rides, call or visit, explain your situation, fitness level and ask general info (drop/ no drop, average speed, duration). Also, have the required tools and knowledge to fix flats and other minor problems, should they occur.
> 
> Other than that, be at the start on time, introduce yourself to the organizer and members and use good judgement once underway, knowing (and keeping within) your limits and abilities.


Thanks PJ. Didn't realize there were some finer details such as the ones you mentioned. Will keep an eye out for that.


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## qatarbhoy (Aug 17, 2009)

Hi iridium, I've bought three pairs of cycling shoes (Sette Elements for MTB and two Shimano pairs for mtb/road) and never had a problem with sizing because i did my homework using their size charts, people's comments about whether they ran big or small, narrow/wide etc. Platypius is right, don't use the LBS to try stuff on that you'll then buy online! That's not cool. 

I would also say that Shimano RO-76s or 86s would be a better buy than the Sette Ximo road shoes (although the Sette Elements are a great bargain for MTB).

Don't worry about what to wear etc for group rides, go with what you feel comfortable with and then get advice from other riders and work out what you actually need. If they give you a hard time for not 'fitting in' from day one then you are better off finding a group of non-a$$holes. I turned up for my first group ride on a hybrid, wearing baggies and MTB shoes, and using a camelbak - all no-nos (supposedly) in the roadie world, but no-one gave me grief about it, just respected the fact that I did the ride with less than optimal equipment!

With a bit more experience I learnt for myself that tight shorts, water bottles, jersey pockets etc all make more sense, and made those changes in my own time.


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## iridium_red (Jul 2, 2010)

Thanks qatarbhoy. I will definitely look into those shoes. Thanks for the suggestions.


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## LMWEL (Jan 5, 2010)

Something just occured to me . You've had your bike for a month, and unless you posted them somewhere else we haven't seen pics . Come On !


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## iridium_red (Jul 2, 2010)

Hi LMWEL, the pics are in this thread, a few posts above...


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## LMWEL (Jan 5, 2010)

iridium_red said:


> Hi LMWEL, the pics are in this thread, a few posts above...


Ahh ! There we go . I'm sorry I missed them earlier . Nice ride ! How has she been treating you ?


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## iridium_red (Jul 2, 2010)

Really well. I cant wait to go on the next ride once I come back from one!!! Trying to improve my ride by getting equipped better - cycling shorts, shoes, pedals to begin with. The bike itself is great - handles really well, well balanced. Uphill climbs are very comfortable. 
What do you ride?


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## iridium_red (Jul 2, 2010)

BTW.. thanks for checking it out!!!


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## LMWEL (Jan 5, 2010)

iridium_red said:


> Really well. I cant wait to go on the next ride once I come back from one!!! Trying to improve my ride by getting equipped better - cycling shorts, shoes, pedals to begin with. The bike itself is great - handles really well, well balanced. Uphill climbs are very comfortable.
> What do you ride?


My 2009 Giant Defy 2 , and yes I'm in love . Like you, I can't wait until my next ride . Enjoy .


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## pschmatz (Jul 15, 2011)

*Sette Xion Tiagra Bike?*

Hello,

(My 1st post...)

I've been doing some commuting with an older MTB, and now I'm considering switching to my first road bike. I've been to a few local LBS, and I was told that for a Tiagra (with a carbon fork), I would be starting around $1000. 

I came across Sette Xion Tiagra from PricePoint, and looks pretty decent for $600. It has a flat bar (which is ok with me). Does anyone have this bike? I couldn't find any reviews...

Next question is around the PricePoint policy that the warranty is only valid if the bike is assembled professionally. Does anyone know if this is really enforced? Meaning that Pricepoint would want to see a shop receipt in case of a warranty issue?

Tx - Peter


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## dahut (May 13, 2010)

pschmatz said:


> Hello,
> 
> (My 1st post...)
> 
> ...


Peter,
I dont know about Price Points warranty policy, but yes, the $1000 rings true for a name brand, Tiagra/Carbon grade bike.
I'm guessing your questions are hinting at a purchase outside the LBS?
If so, here's some things to chew on. 

When you buy a bike from an online retailer, it comes to you in a box, 90 percent assembled. The bars, wheels, seat and pedals are off - so it will fit in a shipping carton. But everything else is installed and for the most part ready to run. 
The amount of so-called "assembly" is minimal. BTW, this is the same state the LBS receives them in.

SO unless you are an absolute nimrod, putting the bike together will only take a minimum of tools and about 1-2 hours of time. Doing this yourself is also a great learning experience, so you will understand your machine that much better.

Typically, the LBS is prepared to do all this and tune the bike in for you. Every OOB bike requires a little tweaking to get everything humming together. They will usually offer you incentives to purchase, too. 

Things like flat repair kits, a tube or two, seat bags and so on, are often thrown in. They usually offer discount deals on helmets and replacement seats, as well. If you buy a bike elsewhere and bring it to them for their services, they are going to charge you a la carte for all this stuff. 

Since you are going to need these accessory items anyway, the LBS might make as much sense for a new "roadie" as an online purchase, when all is said and done. And the LBS is the only place you can get a new Giant, Trek, Cannondale or other name-brand bike. If you are impressed by, or want to impress others with, a shiny new name-brand ride - then the LBS is the only game in town.

I lean towards on-line purchasing, because -

A. I DON'T need a bike shop for all this stuff.
Ive been riding for years and have all the tools, accessories and skills I need.

B. Bikes are pretty much the same at the lower price points, even the ones at the LBS.
They are made in the same factories, using off the shelf components.
_(Giant, for example, makes something like 70% of all the bikes in the world... and they don't all have their name on them. It's the same with cars: Lexus is a Toyota product, Jeep is aligned with Daimler, Ford and Mazda, Dodge and Mitsubishi... you get the idea.)_

C. My area LBS has terrible in-the-door service and a nose-in-the-air attitude. 
The bicycle business is eat up BAD with the "boutique mystique." Prices reflect that and so do their attitudes, often enough. When I encounter it, I don't waste my time there, nor give them my money.

But only you can know what works for you. I hope this helps you make a decision.


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## PlatyPius (Feb 1, 2009)

dahut said:


> Peter,
> I dont know about Price Points warranty policy, but yes, the $1000 rings true for a name brand, Tiagra/Carbon grade bike.
> I'm guessing your questions are hinting at a purchase outside the LBS?
> If so, here's some things to chew on.
> ...


Most of the comments in this post are true. The two bolded statements are not.

1. When I build a bike - and I know other shops do it to - I essentially disassemble the bike. Cable housings are cut to length, headset bearings are greased (if applicable), hub bearings are greased and adjusted (ditto), wheels are checked for dish and trued laterally and radially, etc.

2. Old info. Chrysler is owned by Fiat now (52%); and has been for two years or so.


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## dahut (May 13, 2010)

PlatyPius said:


> Most of the comments in this post are true. The two bolded statements are not.
> 
> 1. When I build a bike - and I know other shops do it to - I essentially disassemble the bike. Cable housings are cut to length, headset bearings are greased (if applicable), hub bearings are greased and adjusted (ditto), wheels are checked for dish and trued laterally and radially, etc.
> 
> 2. Old info. Chrysler is owned by Fiat now (52%); and has been for two years or so.


Thank you for the corrections. Points remain the same, though, as far as I can tell.

To be clear, neither the OP nor I were referring to a meticulously stripped and re-assembled "build bike." He was asking about a boxed, $600 bike from an online retailer. From looking at it, the Sette mentioned is yet another off-the-shelf Asian factory bike, churned out like so many others. From the samples I've seen of these - and the one I own - none of the work you mention was necessary, OOB. You can do it if you want, but it isn't needed.

That said, do help me understand something. Are you saying that Specialized, Trek (or any of the other name bike brands) ships their products to dealers requiring complete strip and build to prep them for sale?

As for Chrysler/Fiat... well, I'm glad to be set right on that.


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## PlatyPius (Feb 1, 2009)

dahut said:


> Thank you for the corrections. Points remain the same, though, as far as I can tell.
> 
> To be clear, neither the OP nor I were referring to a meticulously stripped and re-assembled "build bike." He was asking about a boxed, $600 bike from an online retailer. From looking at it, the Sette mentioned is yet another off-the-shelf Asian factory bike, churned out like so many others. From the samples I've seen of these - and the one I own - none of the work you mention was necessary, OOB. You can do it if you want, but it isn't needed.
> 
> ...


Any bike that comes in a box in my store - whether Jamis, Raleigh, Scott, or whatever is taken apart (as much as needed) and put back together. Higher end bikes obviously have cartridge bearings, so no greasing/adjusting is necessary. Anything with caged bearings, though, is disassembled, greased, and reassembled.

The companies don't "require" it, but I want to sell bikes that are properly assembled and won't self-destruct. For instance, inexpensive bikes ALWAYS have the headset, hubs, and bottom bracket over-tightened and they rarely have enough grease in them. Failure to address those problems would result in premature failure.

This is also the reason why I do not discount cheap bikes. The margin is tiny on them anyway, and the assembly takes twice as long as a >$1000 bike.

But no.... on a >$1000 road bike, none of this is really necessary. The issues with those are usually wheels out of true, inadequate spoke tension, and too-long cable housings.

As an aside, bike shops technically can/are supposed to charge for assembly. MSRP prices that are posted on company sites always add "delivery and assembly charges not included". There aren't many shops that charge for assembly these days though, except Aaron's in Seattle - they charge $125 to assemble a new boxed bike.


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## pschmatz (Jul 15, 2011)

Thanks for your input. Yes, I'm well aware of the benefits of a LBS, and the service.

I've been working on my bikes, and I have mostly the necessary tool: Torque wrench, tool for bottom bracket, and a work stand. I'm not a mechanic by trade (doing software for a living), but I have cut cables, adjust the derailleur, etc successfully. I even did re-spoked on a wheel (but never got it really true...). If I'm stuck I have no problem to take the bike to a LBS

Going back to Sette and PricePoint and the policy about the "warranty only if professionally assembled". Is this true, and e.g applicable to bikesdirect and other online vendors?
If yes, what can I expect to pay at a LBS for this final assembly?

Tx - Peter


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## mrargus (Jul 18, 2011)

hope you enjoy it!!


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## JPK_NJ (Jul 18, 2011)

Good reading. Also trying to choose a bike


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## PlatyPius (Feb 1, 2009)

pschmatz said:


> Thanks for your input. Yes, I'm well aware of the benefits of a LBS, and the service.
> 
> I've been working on my bikes, and I have mostly the necessary tool: Torque wrench, tool for bottom bracket, and a work stand. I'm not a mechanic by trade (doing software for a living), but I have cut cables, adjust the derailleur, etc successfully. I even did re-spoked on a wheel (but never got it really true...). If I'm stuck I have no problem to take the bike to a LBS
> 
> ...



The cost varies greatly from shop to shop.

Me, I charge $40-$60, depending on the bike. (ie: tri bikes, tandems, recumbents cost more)


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## PlatyPius (Feb 1, 2009)

nm - somehow went to the wrong thread....


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