# 2012 TCR Advanced 0 (Ui2)



## Sven_Nijs

I'm very tempted by the look and price of this bike and considering it as my first ever full carbon bike (when it finally arrives for sale here later in the year) BUT I'm concerned on a couple of fronts-

It seems _really_ reasonably priced @ AU$4000 when compared with the Specialized Pro SL4 Ui2 @ a likely ~AU$6500 or Trek Madone 5.9 Ui2 which may be ~$5500 or Scott Foil 15 etc etc etc. 
Where will the 'savings' have been made with the Giant or are the others just way overpriced.

The second worry is ride quality: From all reports the Foil is *too* rigid and provides zero rider comfort but how does the TCR Advanced (non SL) fare in this respect? They look _similar_ when viewed from the side with sizeable seat stays unlike the Specialized SL4 or a Cervelo R3 for example with their obviously thin seat stays.

Third thing is weight: I know by buying into Ui2 that the groupset already carries a small built in weight penalty but with the Giant where might future weight savings be made (if required)? Is it a heavy frame set that doesn't really warrant upgrading of ancilliaries or is it a fairly light frame set burdened by slightly heavier wheels, bars, stem etc to allow it to meet it's price point?

For info, it's likely to be the Small size.

Hopefully some Giant gurus can advise or at least postulate on the above. :thumbsup:


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## roadrashxx

Not sure if I can answer any of your questions but just adding some points to the discussion.

There does seem to be a lot of reports of the Scott Foils being too stiff. It sounds like a dream crit machine if that's what you're after. I ride a 2010 TCR Advanced SL and whilst stiff, it is still very comfortable and I can't imagine the Advanced being any worse in that department.

Secondly, I'd always try and go for the best frame possible the initial budget will allow with a view to being able to upgrade bits later on, but that's just me ie trying not to be too influenced by what gruppo or wheels are on the bike but focusing on the frameset. Having said that, it's hard not being swayed by the 2012 Advanced 0 for AU$4000. I'm from Aus too and saw that the price of the TCR Advanced with the same bits but normal Ultegra 6700 is $700 less. 

Ui2 pricing does seem to be a bit of an unknown though so there's few other bike prices to really compare against. Local brand Azzurri have their Ui2 bike with decent-enough Reynolds Solitude wheels for $2599. Whilst the Azzurri frame is probably a "generic" carbon job, is the TCR Advanced frame worth $1500 more?

Back to the Advanced 0, those stem and bars don't seem to be anything special so they'd be saving money. On those wheels, it's hard to tell for 2012. Are they equivalent to the decent Shimano RS80's? Assuming they're cost-cutting on those as well, I guess that's the reason why they can afford to sell the Advanced 0 for AU$4k. So maybe factor in upgrading those and suddenly you're approaching $5k. Is that worth it for an Advanced? I saw at MC Cyclery that the 2011 TCR Advanced SL's are being run out for $3500 (Ultegra 6700, DT Swiss Tricons and Giant alloy bars/stem) and $5000 (Dura-Ace 7900, Dura-Ace C24 wheels and Giant carbon bars/stem) so something else to consider.


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## Sven_Nijs

Thanks for the feedback roadrashxx.

I had looked at the Azzurri but the sizing seems a bit 'off' for me, that price is just a promo and as you say it's probably a generic frame. Maybe a good buy if you just want to harvest the groupset though.

The selling point of the TCR Advanced 0 to me _is_ the Di2 groupset and the inclusion of a 'quality' frame at a good price.

I don't really _need_ a new bike and while I appreciate that 2011 models can be had for bargain prices I'm not really a fan of Shimano STI shifters. I've been solely on Campag for 20 years now (except for my TT bikes) because I didn't like that with STI the brake levers moved sideways. Maybe I'm just a Luddite and need to take this guys advice....

A better frame, wheels, Dura Ace etc etc for $1000 more (where?) is definitely a steal but I know that I would find it hard to get on with the STI levers.

As an aside, are the 2011 Advanced SL frames Di2 & non-Di2 specific or do they all allow retro-fitting of Di2?

thanks again for adding to the conversation.


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## roadrashxx

Campagnolo guys reckon once you go Campy you'll never want anything else. Is that true?

Isn't the action of the electronic Shimano's the same as their mechanical counterparts though? Would the Di2 sway you towards the Shimano STI's?

I saw the runout TCR Advanced SL's 2010 for $4999 at MC Cyclery in Sydney CBD but you could probably get it from any Giant retailer. It's a good price for a frameset good enough for the Rabobank Team, full Dura Ace 7900 and some awesome wheels as per the review on your link. 

Yeah, I'm not quite sure if Di2 can be retrofitted on the "normal' 2011 Advanced SL frames. The SL0 are Di2-specific but that doesn't necessarily mean the non SL0 can't accommodate Di2.

ON another note, does SRAM come into calculations at all? Pretty decent SRAM Red bikes for under AU$5k these days...

Probably not helping you much though!


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## Sven_Nijs

roadrashxx said:


> Campagnolo guys reckon once you go Campy you'll never want anything else. Is that true?


Not sure about that as apart from downtube and Sachs New Success shifters, I've not used anything else. I'm definitely *not* going back to DT or Sachs shifters!



> _Isn't the action of the electronic Shimano's the same as their mechanical counterparts though? Would the Di2 sway you towards the Shimano STI's?_


Unlike non Di2, the Di2 brake levers are fixed and it's the two paddles behind them activate the micro-switches to shift up/down.



> _I saw the runout TCR Advanced SL's 2010 for $4999 at MC Cyclery in Sydney CBD but you could probably get it from any Giant retailer. It's a good price for a frameset good enough for the Rabobank Team, full Dura Ace 7900 and some awesome wheels as per the review on your link.
> 
> Yeah, I'm not quite sure if Di2 can be retrofitted on the "normal' 2011 Advanced SL frames. The SL0 are Di2-specific but that doesn't necessarily mean the non SL0 can't accommodate Di2.
> 
> ON another note, does SRAM come into calculations at all? Pretty decent SRAM Red bikes for under AU$5k these days...
> 
> Probably not helping you much though!_


I visited MC Cyclery when it first opened on one of my rare visits to the CBD and asked about the new range while the Giant rep was there but they couldn't/wouldn't tell me much. Said they'd contact me after the Sydney bike show but so far nothing. Probably prefer to give my business to someone more local like Hornsby Cycles.

I sent a message tonight to a friend who rides for a Giant sponsored pro team to ask his thoughts (hopefully honest despite being paid to ride them).

Don't fancy SRAM but after your comments may try to test ride a set of recent Shimano STI levers and see if I _could_ live with them. Still really fancy Di2 though......

Cheers


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## roadrashxx

Sven_Nijs said:


> Unlike non Di2, the Di2 brake levers are fixed and it's the two paddles behind them activate the micro-switches to shift up/down.


You're right. I don't how I missed that there was an extra paddle behind the brake lever. 

People who ride Di2 say it's the best thing too so it probably is worth pursuing and imo if you put a pair of Dura-Ace C24 clinchers on the 2012 Advanced 0, you've got a real weapon there.


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## Sven_Nijs

Thanks - again.
Found this test which (although a little skewed by non-std parts) suggests the ride quality is pretty decent.


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## Sven_Nijs

Just saw that the Specialized Tarmac SL4 Pro and Trek Madone 5.9, which were my other possible Ui2 options (despite being MUCH more expensive) have ruled themselves out of the game by having compact/mid-compact cranks and 28T cassettes. 
Maybe they think every buyer is going to go straight out and climb the Alps? :rolleyes5:


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## roadrashxx

I can't think of anywhere near Sydney where you'd ever use the compact with th 28-tooth. I guess you could always swap out the 11-28 for a 12-25 or even an 11-23?

There seems to be more and more of a trend of releasing bikes with compacts and/or the 11 or 12-28 cassettes. It started on the "comfort" geometry bikes like the Roubaix but now it's on the Tarmac as well!

Whatever happened to the old art of just grinding it up the hill?


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## Sven_Nijs

I can understand why the manufacturers are doing it given the huge popularity of Sportives in the UK/Europe where the riders have 'a fuller figure' and the hills are much steeper.
However for a skinny runt like me riding in Sydney, they don't make sense. Even in Scotland the most I ever needed was 39/25.


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## Italianrider76

Yeah, I think the most you'll ever need in Sydney is 39/25. Works well on Awaba Street!


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## a_avery007

the reason why is aging population, and many places have hills. Out in California, NorCal specifically it is all up and down and up and down, so many bikes spec'd this way.


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## mimason

I ride the SL SRAM Red but have several freinds who ride the non SL version. The geometry is the same just no ISP and a little different carbon layup. This is a high quality frame though and very responsive. weight is decent and you can build a sub 6.8 easily with proper wheel selection. Adding Ui2 may complicate this but from what I hear(I know the Shimano rep) Ui2 is an excellent performer. 

Also, Giant is rolling out their new wheels with the 2012 models. I also know the Giant rep and it looks like their offering will be good and weigh around 1500 grams for the alu clinchers.
It will be hard to beat the value and ride quality.


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## Sven_Nijs

Thanks mimason, the more research I do, the more I keep being drawn back to it.
I'm waiting a little longer for my LBS to have seen all the upcoming options at the dealer launches but the Cannondale (while nice) is ~50% more expensive, the Specialized is ~60% more expensive, the Scott is too expensive & stiff so I'm just waiting to hear more on the Felt, Kuota and a couple of others.
I'm in no hurry at this point.


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## Aindreas

Not sure if any of this is helpful, but here's my two cents:

1. The frames on Giant's carbon bikes are really, _really_ good. Like last frame you'll ever really need, just upgrade the components good. Excellent blend of performance and comfort.
2. The wheels branded as Giant on the 2012s are made with lots of input from DT Swiss. How much I'm not sure, but I will check into this. 
3. The house brand stems and handlebars are good quality, but not top-of-the-line. Not sure about the Contact SLs, though. They could be bee's knees for all I know.
4. Watch the torgue settings on the vector seatposts ('09 and later Advanced frames). I almost cracked mine with a torque wrench about .2 or so NM below the max listed on the seatpost collar. Just tighten it until it doesn't slip and you'll be fine.

HTH


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## Sven_Nijs

Thanks for the advice, very much appreciated.


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## Sven_Nijs

I've just been advised that apart from a handful of early issue bikes in week 40-something promised to Giants Sydney Concept Store, the next batch will be in week 6 of 2012 to all the other bike shops due to supply/demand problems with Shimano. :mad2:

Having said that, I did manage to see a 2012 TCR Advanced 2 (std Ultegra in white/black) today, it looked good and certainly felt light enough. The Giant wheels looked pretty handy too and reminded me a bit of Shimano hubs but black.
Hadn't realised just how massive the downtubes are.....


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## roadrashxx

The SL's downtubes are even fatter.

Is the Advanced 0 shortage an Australian delivery issue?

If so would the import route be feasible?

A 5 month wait does sound a bit excessive. It's not like it's a special-order Trek Project One frameset or the like.


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## Sven_Nijs

Don't know if it's worldwide or not.
No UK dealers are advertising 2012 stock yet, haven't looked to US yet.
It seems my option is buy from MC Cyclery at full price and have to drive to CBD anytime I need something done or wait it out. 
Not sure if it isn't actually best to wait and get a later production/revision of Ui2...


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## shokhead

12's are up on the website.

$4550 gets you Shimano Ultegra Di2 Electronic on the advanced 0.


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## Sven_Nijs

Thanks.
Suppose it depends if they'll get more stock than Oz, will ship to Oz, whether warranty is International and if the currency conversion + shipping + import taxes will make it worthwhile anyway...


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## roadrashxx

That price is surprisingly high and already way more than Aust (even factoring in currency conversion), then add stamp duty and freight.

Wouldn't it be better to just put your name down for the limited numbers form MC Cyclery?

At least if there are any warranty issues with the Di2 drivetrain then it's just a quick trip down the Pacific Hwy...


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## Sven_Nijs

Sure is the best plan (overseas isn't an option as there's no warranty) but that still means actually putting down a pre-order deposit (or full amount?) for something I probably won't see for another 4 months!
The problem is that the estimated delivery date from Giant Aust/MCC is blowing out on a daily basis. They're now looking at January at the very earliest. 
Can't believe it's just a supply issue - maybe Shimano have a production quality problem?


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## Italianrider76

Sven_Nijs said:


> Sure is the best plan (overseas isn't an option as there's no warranty) but that still means actually putting down a pre-order deposit (or full amount?) for something I probably won't see for another 4 months!
> The problem is that the estimated delivery date from Giant Aust/MCC is blowing out on a daily basis. They're now looking at January at the very earliest.
> Can't believe it's just a supply issue - maybe Shimano have a production quality problem?


I was at MC yesterday to see if anything could be done about my dented front wheel.....turns out not much....anyways, they had a 2012 TCR Advanced 2 with 105 and it looks like a great frame. I would seriously recommend waiting a while because Giant always lowers its prices after several months of releasing the models. If you pre-order then sure, you'll be one of the first on the block with the new bike but a little patience can mean significant savings.


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## Sven_Nijs

I think it'll be a great bike despite not having seen the colour 'live' but I'm starting to think that waiting is the way to go especially when a 20% deposit is required to secure a bike for delivery sometime in early 2012. That money is better off earning interest in my bank or buying my kids their Christmas presents.... :thumbsup:
My only concern is that they'll take advantage of the supply/demand situation and actually put prices up!


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## shokhead

You might earn 1%.


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## Sven_Nijs

This is Australia - we get 5%


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## peterk

Pricing of the 2012 bikes appear to be lower than 2011. I believe retail for the 2011 TCR ultegra was $3200, now it is $3050.


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## shokhead

Same carbon frame?


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## peterk

New frame. Supposedly lighter and stiffer with internal cable routing (I like external though).


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## Sven_Nijs

Spoke to another LBS and they are convinced that are getting a couple of Advanced 0s in November, not my size though , so I'll be able to see the colour scheme and place an order depending on my thoughts.


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## Sven_Nijs

Has anyone seen the colour scheme up close and care to comment? I'm getting mixed reports on it (although I know it's really about personal taste).


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## teoteoteo

Sven_Nijs said:


> Has anyone seen the colour scheme up close and care to comment? I'm getting mixed reports on it (although I know it's really about personal taste).


Yes, the color is not a "home run" but I like it, the blue is the tough part for most people, I personally like blue, but as a buyer feel like they could have gone safer/more middle of the road. Their is no mistaking it in the line, I think they could have/should have down a variation of this and it would have been a home run. 

TCR Advanced SL 3 (2012) - Bikes | Giant Bicycles | United States


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## calaris

teoteoteo said:


> Yes, the color is not a "home run" but I like it, the blue is the tough part for most people, I personally like blue, but as a buyer feel like they could have gone safer/more middle of the road. Their is no mistaking it in the line, I think they could have/should have down a variation of this and it would have been a home run.


My issue is that it's not really blue per se, rather some sort of blue green. I thought the blue they used in prior years were much nicer. Of course I'm prejudiced since I own one.

As for the 2012 models, the frame only TCR Advanced in blue/white looks pretty good.


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## teoteoteo

FYI....Got an email yesterday that Giant (U.S) had air freighted a few Defy Advanced Ui2 bikes and were shipping them the dealers that had pre-ordered early. I have a medium on the way now. Not sure if they got any TCR's as I have an ML on backorder that was ordered the same time as the Defy.


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## Sven_Nijs

teoteoteo said:


> FYI....Got an email yesterday that Giant (U.S) had air freighted a few Defy Advanced Ui2 bikes and were shipping them the dealers that had pre-ordered early. I have a medium on the way now. Not sure if they got any TCR's as I have an ML on backorder that was ordered the same time as the Defy.


Great news for you :thumbsup: I look forward to your feedback on the groupset and frame.
Let me know what you think of the TCR colour scheme if you see one.


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## teoteoteo

Sven_Nijs said:


> Great news for you :thumbsup: I look forward to your feedback on the groupset and frame.
> Let me know what you think of the TCR colour scheme if you see one.


I posted above on the color, I like blue and silver so I liked it, not as mainstream, and I really like the black they used with advanced SL non integrated. I'll post back on the group, the bike coming to my shop to sell and is not mine. My personal bike though will arrive soon and it too is a Ui2 so I'll be happy to share my experience. Have been spoiled riding a few Di2 loaner bikes so I suspect I'll really like.


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## roadrashxx

Saw the TCR Advanced 0 in the flesh @ MC Cyclery.

It's definitely much better looking in real life than the pics. I didn't mind the blue highlights at all. My only criticism aesthetically, (and this is nitpicking) is the ANT+ sensor doesn't look too clean and as integrated into the frame as it could have been.

On a similar note, I rode with a guy yesterday who opted for Ultegra Di2 over Dura Ace 7900 mech (he was quoted a similar RRP) and he absolutely loves it. He used to ride on Dura Ace 7800.

So based on that, the TCR Advanced 0 looks like a winner.


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## Sven_Nijs

Thanks.
I made a special visit to see them the other week, parked illegally but when I got in there it was still in the box. They were good enough to take it out but it was still in all the wrapping etc so I didn't get a really good look unfortunately.
I'd just be a bit pi$$3d off i waited til February or later (i.e. winter) to get delivery only to have Giant then announce they were releasing a special edition colour scheme (red, white/black, Rabobank) that I preferred


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## teoteoteo

roadrashxx said:


> Saw the TCR Advanced 0 in the flesh @ MC Cyclery.
> 
> It's definitely much better looking in real life than the pics. I didn't mind the blue highlights at all. My only criticism aesthetically, (and this is nitpicking) is the ANT+ sensor doesn't look too clean and as integrated into the frame as it could have been.
> 
> On a similar note, I rode with a guy yesterday who opted for Ultegra Di2 over Dura Ace 7900 mech (he was quoted a similar RRP) and he absolutely loves it. He used to ride on Dura Ace 7800.
> 
> So based on that, the TCR Advanced 0 looks like a winner.


Have been on my Ultegra Di2 for about a month, shifters rattle and I have gotten used to dumping shifts quickly on my previous groups (DA 7800, Chorus 11, Force and Red) so I'm on the fence. The rattling is the real deal breaker right now. Last group was Force and I really liked it. Have a new take off 7800 group too so maybe an option there


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## Sven_Nijs

*Update:*

I attended the MC Cyclery/Giant test weekend and test rode the bike (albeit a large with 175mm cranks) set up to suit me i.e. seat post shoved right down.
Frame is light stiff and not harsh = PLUS. Groupset is really nice and I liked it more than mechanical DA (I ride Campag) = PLUS. The colour is terrible = NEGATIVE.:frown2:
I gave this as feedback to Giant as did the other two riders on my session and it seems they've heard it a lot.
I have therefore cancelled my order and will await the 2013 model colours or scrape and save to get the TCR Advanced SL 0 
EDIT: My wife however, will definitely be getting a Defy Advanced 3 very soon..... :thumbsup:


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## frank_ch

Picked my TCR Adanced 0 last Monday (merry Christmas me), i was not keen on the colour when i ordered it but is certanly a grower. It looks great in the flesh, am now totally into the colour.

The group set is pretty cool too.


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## Sven_Nijs

Glad you like it Frank. I just didn't see the point in having to wait until Autumn/Winter for a bike that I didn't really like the look of and wouldn't get much use from until Spring/Summer rolled around again.
If I could have got one right now (mid-Summer), in one of the other TCR colour schemes, it'd be in the garage right now.
Maybe next year....
Enjoy your bike!


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## newb67

Hi

Newb here, 44YO, 183cm 85kg, good cardio fitness, just taking up cycling after years of sustaining too many lower leg injuries from road running 

I want to get into it reasonably seriously and plan on it being my main sport over the coming years, giving running away completely. Budget for the bike itself is about $3K and have done a fair bit of research into various road bike frames, groupsets etc etc. I've read a hell of a lot online, spoken to half a dozen local suppliers and received what seems like good info, not unexpectedly they do they push their own brands. In any case I have a shortlist of two now:

TCR Advanced 0 - Ultegra Di2 is attractive at under $3k from what I've learned
Madone 5.2

My only concern is am I running before I can walk with either/both of these bikes in terms of geometry. I want to buy the best frame I can afford with my budget but having spent this money is it a real risk that the bike is too advanced for me, becomes uncomfortable early and it ends up sitting in the garage. I will be getting it properly fitted obviously so will that reduce such a risk? Should I instead look at endurance bikes instead and upgrade in a couple of years?

Appreciate any/all advice before I commit funds.


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## Sven_Nijs

Have a read of this thread; http://forums.roadbikereview.com/giant/2012-tcr-advanced-0-a-275313.html

Ask for a test ride so you know what you're getting as regards the geometry & fit.
I don't think you'll go wrong with the TCR but can't comment on the Madone except you will pay more for equivalent tech.


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## newb67

Thanks for the response and thread referral, appreciate it. I settled on the Madone and so far absolutely no regrets.


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