# 2018 SW Tarmac Disc Availability



## boogermin

I've searched the forums, but didn't find anything relating to this, hence the new post. I was hoping the good people of the forum had some insight into the approximate release date/month of the 2018 SW Tarmac Disc. 

I've read that it won't be released until CY18, but I'm seriously hoping that's a conservative estimate. Currently on a BMC RM01, which I like, but given the new SW Tarmac geometry, and the fact that it's supposed to be lighter, I'm chomping at the bits to be back on a Tarmac.

Thanks in advance.


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## Steenerk

boogermin said:


> I've searched the forums, but didn't find anything relating to this, hence the new post. I was hoping the good people of the forum had some insight into the approximate release date/month of the 2018 SW Tarmac Disc.
> 
> I've read that it won't be released until CY18, but I'm seriously hoping that's a conservative estimate. Currently on a BMC RM01, which I like, but given the new SW Tarmac geometry, and the fact that it's supposed to be lighter, I'm chomping at the bits to be back on a Tarmac.
> 
> Thanks in advance.


My LBS told me end of this month or first part of Oct. I'm waiting to order one. I've been sitting in an insurance bike claim since June.🤞

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## dcorn

I've barely seen even the rim brake versions in the wild or on Instagram. Lots of lightweight models showing up, but none of the other colors. Zero disc models either.


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## Arnoud

@ SpecializedEurope today at the test day nobody was willing to say anything about the Tarmac disc availability. Focus on the non Disc only at the moment, since the discs are not yet the go to bike for any UCI race and also for example not adopted by the Dutch cycling association in any race (even not in club rides...)


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## dcorn

I was told the disc version is waiting on reliable availability of the new Shimano disc build kits. I guess they can also put Sram on the disc version since they don't have to worry about the direct mount brake limitation.


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## WRM4865

I have NOT seen a 18' disc as shown in the photo below however... If it's as half as nice as the ultralight tarmac that I have seen (and rode briefly) at my local shop, It will be worth the wait.









I'm an aero-bike aficionado tho' and love my 2018 S Works Venge Vias Disc, nevertheless I would love to have a 18' S Works Tarmac Disc in my stable. 

Once you go electronic shifting and disc brakes It's hard to go back to cable actuated and rim brakes.

Also going tubeless is one of those things of..." why did I wait so long to finally do this ? " the S Works turbo tubeless are like free speed they roll really really nice.


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## 11spd

Love the Tarmac and new aero cues even if stuck with the one bolt seatpost...but not with disk brakes or electric shifting.

Not that you have to copy the pros but they pretty much categorically dismiss disk brakes and are allowed to race with them. Further, Joe six pack isn't constrained by a 15lb UCI weight limit. Rim brake bike is lighter.


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## Arnoud

Wow looks really good on that picture. 140/140 is however not really the way to go in my opinion.

Getting a bit frustrated that the disc version is not available. If it comes as quickly of introducing as the regular one it will be summer 18...

Pros not using discs has other reasons, including wheel change availability. And Joe six pack may well be better of with a disc brake bike, but let's not start another disc yes or no discussion.


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## dcorn

It's not about having the lightest bike in the world and it's not about what the pros want (or are paid) to use. (Look at Kittel, he was riding multiple races and winning on disc brakes. Then someone falsely accused his discs of cutting them and he stopped because he doesn't want **** from his fellow riders. So it has nothing to do with their performance, discs still have a stigma in pro cycling. Go check the pro CX ranks and see how many rim brakes are there...) If I'm spending $6k or more on a bike, it better have the best technology available. So if they make a Tarmac with electronic shifting, disc brakes, carbon wheels, and tubeless tires, I'm 100% going to buy that model. I'm dead set on buying a new Tarmac and could have the Pro Di2 model very soon, but I'm electing to wait on the disc version to come out. What's a few months when I'll be riding the CX bike in races and gravel rides through the fall anyway? 

I haven't moved to carbon wheels on my road bike because I don't want brakes that suck when they get wet or possibly explode if I use them too much going down a hill. I bought Mavic exalith Cosmic wheels instead to get even better braking power than normal aluminum wheels while still being aero. I was considering swapping these wheels over to a new Tarmac with rim brakes, but why give up really nice factory spec'd carbon wheels for something way heavier when I can just wait a bit and get the best braking and keep the lightweight wheels. 


Has anyone ridden a bike with 140/140 disc brakes and said 'wow, this is not enough braking power' or 'crap, I'm descending so much that my brake fluid is boiling and rotors warping with this small front rotor'? Just wondering since I'm 200+ lbs and could probably benefit from a bigger front rotor. Maybe that's what part of the holdup is, trying to figure out if they should go bigger in the front. My Crux is 160/140 and that's made for short cross courses without long periods of braking. I can't imagine a bike made for flying down mountain roads would have less braking power.


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## 11spd

We completely disagree about disc brakes. I side with the pros who prefer rim brakes. Only reason why Kittel raced discs is because Specialized couldn't figure out how to make the VIAS stop with integrated rim brakes even after a design change. Discs in the pro peloton where the most grueling racing and highest speed descents take place...are as rare as hen's teeth. They are a weight penalty and an aero disadvantage. Not huge but that is the reality. Maintenance is a further PITA.
We will simply have to disagree.


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## MoPho

dcorn said:


> Has anyone ridden a bike with 140/140 disc brakes and said 'wow, this is not enough braking power' or 'crap, I'm descending so much that my brake fluid is boiling and rotors warping with this small front rotor'? Just wondering since I'm 200+ lbs and could probably benefit from a bigger front rotor. Maybe that's what part of the holdup is, trying to figure out if they should go bigger in the front. My Crux is 160/140 and that's made for short cross courses without long periods of braking. I can't imagine a bike made for flying down mountain roads would have less braking power.



I had 140/140 on my TCR and the braking was good, but the move to 160/140 then 160/160 made for a noticeable improvement. I started off at 185lbs when I got the bike (now 160), if you're over 200lbs I wouldn't do the 140's. A lot of the bike companies are putting 140's on because people think they look better. I switched to Sram rotors which have more open design than the Shimano so the bigger rotors don't dominate the look as much. 

Going to bigger rotors is just a matter of flipping over the mounting block on the calipers, so certainly not holding up the release of the bike

.


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## MoPho

11spd said:


> We completely disagree about disc brakes. I side with the pros who prefer rim brakes. Only reason why Kittel raced discs is because Specialized couldn't figure out how to make the VIAS stop with integrated rim brakes even after a design change. Discs in the pro peloton where the most grueling racing and highest speed descents take place...are as rare as hen's teeth. They are a weight penalty and an aero disadvantage. Not huge but that is the reality. Maintenance is a further PITA.
> We will simply have to disagree.



The OP was asking about the availability of the disc brake Tarmac, since the rim brake version is already available there was no need for you to insert your opinion on disc brakes into this discussion. 


Until it's ruled that everyone needs to be racing on discs, pros are always going to choose not to run them if there is a perceived disadvantage to someone who is not using them. Why would you take a chance on a potentially slower wheel change, etc. when you know your competition is not going to have that issue? 
And BTW, I saw an interview with some pros asking if they wanted disc, many were indifferent and a few who said they didn't want them admitted they had never even tried them. 
I've also seen photos of quite a few pros on disc brakes while training, so unless you are racing at the sharp end of the stick, worrying about such marginal gains is a bit silly and you should be looking more to what the pros ride when training (or after retiring) than what they are racing on. 


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## WRM4865

They ARE making a rim brake tarmac for those folks that want rim brakes and they WILL have a disc brake tarmac for those folks that want disc brakes. 

Why are we even having this discussion as everyone can be happy? 

Been there done that with the retro-grouch stuff years ago thinking I was the sh*t on my Colnago C50 with full Record Campy... I've since moved on as I don't "need" to have what-the-pros-ride replica and have embraced cycling technology.

Ride what makes YOU happy and not what you precieve everyone else thinks is cool or "pro".


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## 11spd

WRM4865 said:


> They ARE making a rim brake tarmac for those folks that want rim brakes and they WILL have a disc brake tarmac for those folks that want disc brakes.
> 
> Why are we even having this discussion as everyone can be happy?
> 
> Been there done that with the retro-grouch stuff years ago thinking I was the sh*t on my Colnago C50 with full Record Campy... I've since moved on as I don't "need" to have what-the-pros-ride replica and have embraced cycling technology.
> 
> Ride what makes YOU happy and not what you precieve everyone else thinks is cool or "pro".


If you put the same wheelset on your Colnago with Campy you would be as fast as any Tarmac FWIW...lol.


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## Rashadabd

Man I hate those heavy disc brake equipped bikes. They're such a liability. 

https://instagram.com/p/BaXHf98nR3X/


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## 11spd

Rashadabd said:


> Man I hate those heavy disc brake equipped bikes. They're such a liability.
> 
> https://instagram.com/p/BaXHf98nR3X/


Hear ya. That disc Felt is a veritable boat anchor compared to this rim braked Emonda SL10 and of course the most recent Tarmac disc is even porkier than the Felt. If dropping $8-10K for a bike, might as well get some benefit:

Trek Emonda - a 10lb road bike - BikeRadar USA


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## dcorn

11spd said:


> We completely disagree about disc brakes. I side with the pros who prefer rim brakes. Only reason why Kittel raced discs is because Specialized couldn't figure out how to make the VIAS stop with integrated rim brakes even after a design change. Discs in the pro peloton where the most grueling racing and highest speed descents take place...are as rare as hen's teeth. They are a weight penalty and an aero disadvantage. Not huge but that is the reality. Maintenance is a further PITA.
> We will simply have to disagree.


Yup, you seem to disagree with everyone in this thread, which is for people that appreciate all the benefits of a disc Tarmac. 

Since you don't like discs, might as well head on over to the rim brake Tarmac thread where you can discuss direct mount brakes being more annoying than single bolt, and how electronic shifting is ruining the soul of cycling.


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## dcorn

MoPho said:


> I had 140/140 on my TCR and the braking was good, but the move to 160/140 then 160/160 made for a noticeable improvement. I started off at 185lbs when I got the bike (now 160), if you're over 200lbs I wouldn't do the 140's. A lot of the bike companies are putting 140's on because people think they look better. I switched to Sram rotors which have more open design than the Shimano so the bigger rotors don't dominate the look as much.
> 
> Going to bigger rotors is just a matter of flipping over the mounting block on the calipers, so certainly not holding up the release of the bike
> 
> .


Hmm, didn't know it was just a spacer flip, I figured they'd have to space the caliper further away from the axle. Makes sense. Kind of annoying that I might have to buy another set of brake rotors for a brand new bike. Hopefully I can get the shop to just swap them out when new.


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## ceugene

11spd said:


> We completely disagree about disc brakes. I side with the pros who prefer rim brakes. Only reason why Kittel raced discs is because Specialized couldn't figure out how to make the VIAS stop with integrated rim brakes even after a design change. Discs in the pro peloton where the most grueling racing and highest speed descents take place...are as rare as hen's teeth. They are a weight penalty and an aero disadvantage. Not huge but that is the reality. Maintenance is a further PITA.
> We will simply have to disagree.


So to paraphrase your words. The only reason why this disc bike is good is because the rim-brake version sucks.

Also I disagree with your outlook on discs. With the 6.8kg weight minimum still in place, bikes like the Emonda SLR Disc will be used in mountain stages because descents are the only place where braking actually matters. Kittel certainly does not need the advantages of a disc brake in a sprint finish, nor when he is sitting behind the QuickStep Floors train in the peloton leading up to it. Besides at sprint speeds, the effective yaw angle on an aero bike is only a couple of degrees and disc brakes do not add a ton of drag, nor is the weight difference significant.

Eventually there will be a tipping point where it no longer makes sense to carry both rim-brake and disc-brake component spares and rim-brakes will be out of the peloton permanently, and hopefully your opinions will be gone too.


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## mile2424

Sagan doesn't seem to have any issues braking with the rim brake vias, he never rode the disc version.


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## 11spd

ceugene said:


> So to paraphrase your words. The only reason why this disc bike is good is because the rim-brake version sucks.
> 
> Also I disagree with your outlook on discs. With the 6.8kg weight minimum still in place, bikes like the Emonda SLR Disc will be used in mountain stages because descents are the only place where braking actually matters. Kittel certain does not need the advantages of a disc brake in a sprint finish, nor when he is sitting behind the QuickStep Floors train in the peloton leading up to it. Besides at sprint speeds, the effective yaw angle on an aero bike is only a couple of degrees and disc brakes do not add a ton of drag, nor is the weight difference significant.
> 
> *Eventually there will be a tipping point where it no longer makes sense to carry both rim-brake and disc-brake component spares and rim-brakes will be out of the peloton permanently, and hopefully your opinions will be gone too*.


 Gonna be a while…lol. Currently disc brakes in the pro peloton are about as common as riders stopping to play bingo during a race stage.


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## 11spd

mile2424 said:


> Sagan doesn't seem to have any issues braking with the rim brake vias, he never rode the disc version.


Sagan prefers rim brakes like vast majority of pro riders.


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## Rashadabd

11spd said:


> Gonna be a while…lol. Currently disc brakes in the pro peloton are about as common as riders stopping to play bingo during a race stage.


I actually wouldn't bank on that. The change in cyclocross happened relatively quickly once the thumbs up was given and I could see the same thing happening on the road. Once you eliminate the weight issue the way companies like Trek, BMC, Scott, Fuji, Felt, and Specialized are doing, there's not many strong arguments for sticking with rim brakes left. The aero thing is a marginal issue at best. A bunch of pros aren't even on aero bikes and companies like Cannondale doesn't even make one. Many pros seem to get adequate aerodynamics from fit and wheels, etc. It's happening and soon IMO.


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## MoPho

11spd said:


> Sagan prefers rim brakes like vast majority of pro riders.














.


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## mile2424

He never raced on them to my knowledge, I am sure he has ridden some test rides with them including wheelies on his blinged out gold wheeled version


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## MoPho

mile2424 said:


> He never raced on them to my knowledge, I am sure he has ridden some test rides with them including wheelies on his blinged out gold wheeled version


I have friends that rode with him in LA while he was there training, he was on discs.

As I noted earlier



MoPho said:


> The OP was asking about the availability of the disc brake Tarmac, since the rim brake version is already available there was no need for you to insert your opinion on disc brakes into this discussion.
> 
> 
> Until it's ruled that everyone needs to be racing on discs, pros are always going to choose not to run them if there is a perceived disadvantage to someone who is not using them. Why would you take a chance on a potentially slower wheel change, etc. when you know your competition is not going to have that issue?
> And BTW, I saw an interview with some pros asking if they wanted disc, many were indifferent and a few who said they didn't want them admitted they had never even tried them.
> I've also seen photos of quite a few pros on disc brakes while training, so unless you are racing at the sharp end of the stick, worrying about such marginal gains is a bit silly and you should be looking more to what the pros ride when training (or after retiring) than what they are racing on.
> 
> 
> .
> 
> 
> .



I also know that Phil Gaimon is riding a disc bike around LA now that he is retired.


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## MoPho

Ever notice how whenever there is a rim brake bike question folks who ride disc brake always insert themselves into the discussion, then begin telling others how much rim brakes suck and how they shouldn't buy rim brake bikes...? Yeah, me neither 


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## mile2424

MoPho said:


> I have friends that rode with him in LA while he was there training, he was on discs.
> 
> Again, never "raced" on them
> 
> Back to the discussion, I am eager to try both versions of the new Tarmac. Everyone seems to love the rim brake version so far, and I am sure the feedback on the disc brake bike will be just as good.


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## MoPho

mile2424 said:


> Again, never "raced" on them


Again, that doesn't mean he "prefers" rim brakes


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## Rashadabd

MoPho said:


> Again, that doesn't mean he "prefers" rim brakes T


The truth about Sagan is that he actually prefers mountain bikes. So, my guess is he is extremely comfortable riding discs.


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## Rashadabd

11spd said:


> Hear ya. That disc Felt is a veritable boat anchor compared to this rim braked Emonda SL10 and of course the most recent Tarmac disc is even porkier than the Felt. If dropping $8-10K for a bike, might as well get some benefit:
> 
> Trek Emonda - a 10lb road bike - BikeRadar USA


Yeah, the Trek weight is crazy.


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## 11spd

MoPho said:


> Again, that doesn't mean he "prefers" rim brakes


Yes it does. Sagan prefers rim brakes as do 98% of the pro peloton. Disc brakes are currently legal. Big bike brands are the sponsors of pro racing. Pretty much all big bike makers manufacture a disc brake bike that can be raced in the pro ranks. 

Pretty much all big bike brands want to 'upsell' disk brakes for drum roll...'higher profit'...why big bike brands exist. Also, big bike brands want to win pro races. Winning pro races sells more bikes and why they invest the marketing dollars in pro racing. If pros felt they were faster on disc brake bikes, they would be on them because they want to win, be famous and make more money. 

Pros invariably choose rim brakes because overall, they believe they are superior to disk brakes. For the average rider who isn't in the grueling crucible of top level racing, where there isn't the onus on 50 mph descending in wet weather and where there is no UCI weight constraint of 15 lbs, demand for rim brakes should be even higher. The only reason that big bike makers offer disk brakes on a racing bike is to upsell, create a differential product aka marketing and extoll more money from the public. What an odd construct. Big companies trying to market a product and trying to make more money. Same exact reason in fact that Specialized sold their narrow version of PF30 on their flagship S-works bikes which is inferior to BB30...to create a marketing differential to separate and upsell their S-works models which of course they discontinued because it was inferior. Same reason for SCS which they have now discontinued on the Diverge...to create a market niche...thinking it would translate to more revenue because would make their wheelsets proprietary and the opposite happened. They lost sales due to lack of wheelset commonality. 

Disc brakes are antithetical to racing as pros clearly know as they vote by what they ride because big bike makers would prefer them on disks but pros know better than guys who are willing to buy a heavier and less aero and more expensive disk brake bike who believe disk braking is better for how they ride. Maintenance with hydraulics also sucks with disk brakes.


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## 11spd

Rashadabd said:


> I actually wouldn't bank on that. The change in cyclocross happened relatively quickly once the thumbs up was given and I could see the same thing happening on the road. Once you eliminate the weight issue the way companies like Trek, BMC, Scott, Fuji, Felt, and Specialized are doing, there's not many strong arguments for sticking with rim brakes left. The aero thing is a marginal issue at best. A bunch of pros aren't even on aero bikes and companies like Cannondale doesn't even make one. Many pros seem to get adequate aerodynamics from fit and wheels, etc. It's happening and soon IMO.


Cross and Mtb racing is a completely different world. I prefer disks for example on both Cross an Mtb's due to tire width and riding environment. Road racing is a different environment. So is F1 and Nascar.


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## dcorn

11spd said:


> Yes it does. Sagan prefers rim brakes as do 98% of the pro peloton. Disc brakes are currently legal. Big bike brands are the sponsors of pro racing. Pretty much all big bike makers manufacture a disc brake bike that can be raced in the pro ranks.
> 
> Pretty much all big bike brands want to 'upsell' disk brakes for drum roll...'higher profit'...why big bike brands exist. Also, big bike brands want to win pro races. Winning pro races sells more bikes and why they invest the marketing dollars in pro racing. If pros felt they were faster on disc brake bikes, they would be on them because they want to win, be famous and make more money.
> 
> Pros invariably choose rim brakes because overall, they believe they are superior to disk brakes. For the average rider who isn't in the grueling crucible of top level racing, where there isn't the onus on 50 mph descending in wet weather and where there is no UCI weight constraint of 15 lbs, demand for rim brakes should be even higher. The only reason that big bike makers offer disk brakes on a racing bike is to upsell, create a differential product aka marketing and extoll more money from the public. What an odd construct. Big companies trying to market a product and trying to make more money. Same exact reason in fact that Specialized sold their narrow version of PF30 on their flagship S-works bikes which is inferior to BB30...to create a marketing differential to separate and upsell their S-works models which of course they discontinued because it was inferior. Same reason for SCS which they have now discontinued on the Diverge...to create a market niche...thinking it would translate to more revenue because would make their wheelsets proprietary and the opposite happened. They lost sales due to lack of wheelset commonality.
> 
> Disc brakes are antithetical to racing as pros clearly know as they vote by what they ride because big bike makers would prefer them on disks but pros know better than guys who are willing to buy a heavier and less aero and more expensive disk brake bike who believe disk braking is better for how they ride. Maintenance with hydraulics also sucks with disk brakes.


Do you just copy and paste this response in every disc brake, specialized, or SCS thread you can find? Go troll somewhere else.


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## Steenerk

So, when again are we assuming the disc version will be available? Isn't that what this thread was about? I can't remember

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## 11spd

dcorn said:


> Do you just copy and paste this response in every disc brake, specialized, or SCS thread you can find? Go troll somewhere else.


Rather you are trolling me with no substantive rebuttal. I merely stating the record. Of course this doesn't set well with some who believe in heavier, less aero bikes with more fiddly maintenance. Of course those that make this decision and I am guessing that's you, don't like the truth.


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## MoPho

11spd said:


> Yes it does. Sagan prefers rim brakes as do 98% of the pro peloton. Disc brakes are currently legal. Big bike brands are the sponsors of pro racing. Pretty much all big bike makers manufacture a disc brake bike that can be raced in the pro ranks.
> 
> Pretty much all big bike brands want to 'upsell' disk brakes for drum roll...'higher profit'...why big bike brands exist. Also, big bike brands want to win pro races. Winning pro races sells more bikes and why they invest the marketing dollars in pro racing. If pros felt they were faster on disc brake bikes, they would be on them because they want to win, be famous and make more money.
> 
> Pros invariably choose rim brakes because overall, they believe they are superior to disk brakes. For the average rider who isn't in the grueling crucible of top level racing, where there isn't the onus on 50 mph descending in wet weather and where there is no UCI weight constraint of 15 lbs, demand for rim brakes should be even higher. The only reason that big bike makers offer disk brakes on a racing bike is to upsell, create a differential product aka marketing and extoll more money from the public. What an odd construct. Big companies trying to market a product and trying to make more money. Same exact reason in fact that Specialized sold their narrow version of PF30 on their flagship S-works bikes which is inferior to BB30...to create a marketing differential to separate and upsell their S-works models which of course they discontinued because it was inferior. Same reason for SCS which they have now discontinued on the Diverge...to create a market niche...thinking it would translate to more revenue because would make their wheelsets proprietary and the opposite happened. They lost sales due to lack of wheelset commonality.
> 
> Disc brakes are antithetical to racing as pros clearly know as they vote by what they ride because big bike makers would prefer them on disks but pros know better than guys who are willing to buy a heavier and less aero and more expensive disk brake bike who believe disk braking is better for how they ride. Maintenance with hydraulics also sucks with disk brakes.













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## 11spd

Rashadabd said:


> The truth about Sagan is that he actually prefers mountain bikes. So, my guess is he is extremely comfortable riding discs.


Yes...and therefore more telling that he prefers rim brakes for road racing.


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## 11spd

Rashadabd said:


> Yeah, the Trek weight is crazy.


Yes, and an expensive bike. You will see frame weight come down to the Emonda range more commonly as carbon morphs in the next decade. Point is..you get something for the money with the Emonda...not more weight.


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## ceugene

Look at 11spd spewing nonsense like it’s gospel.

https://youtu.be/2iYYLhtDHpg

Reactions in this 2015 video range from “It needs to be tested” to “they’re ugly” to “everyone needs to switch at the same time” to “it wil be better for heat management and safer in the rain” to “I don’t think they look bad.” 

https://youtu.be/xvWBwhpml5w

More indifference in this video. About the strongest negative opinion was that rim brakes with carbon tubs are adequate, and that the UCI needs a concrete ruling on the legality of disc brakes. Owain Doull’s shoe was mentioned, but as we know that damage was almost surely not caused by a rotor.

Ultimately I think we’ll see guards/fairings on the rotors due to rider safety concerns, but it’s clear the pros acknowledge the braking is better and that the wholesale switch will eventually be made.


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## 11spd

ceugene said:


> Look at 11spd spewing nonsense like it’s gospel.
> 
> https://youtu.be/2iYYLhtDHpg
> 
> Reactions in this 2015 video range from “It needs to be tested” to “they’re ugly” to “everyone needs to switch at the same time” to “it wil be better for heat management and safer in the rain” to “I don’t think they look bad.”
> 
> https://youtu.be/xvWBwhpml5w
> 
> More indifference in this video. About the strongest negative opinion was that rim brakes with carbon tubs are adequate, and that the UCI needs a concrete ruling on the legality of disc brakes. Owain Doull’s shoe was mentioned, but as we know that damage was almost surely not caused by a rotor.
> 
> Ultimately I think we’ll see guards/fairings on the rotors due to rider safety concerns, but it’s clear the pros acknowledge the braking is better and that the wholesale switch will eventually be made.


Just to be clear, I am not against disks. For example, if buying a disk brake bike with rear rack, you can bungie a Frisbee to the back. At least that disk has a modicum of utility.

I love the forecast about disk usage. Yes, the sun will burn out eventually as well. Anybody see the pro racing in CO this past year? I saw '1' disk brake bike....lol. Maybe that was a spectator who made his way onto the course? Apparently that guy didn't get the memo either.


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## dcorn

Dude STFU already, nobody cares about your personal opinion on disc brakes! Nobody cares what you *believe* the pros are thinking. Carbon wheel rim brakes are a compromise, plain and simple. I (and apparently everyone else in this thread) am not paying for a super premium bike with the newest technology and getting compromised brakes. They hardly work in the rain and are not an ideal braking surface. Pros aren't worried about getting t-boned by a car running a red light or turning without looking. I don't have time to wait an extra 30 yards for my brakes to dry off, then finally grip while I'm trying not to die. Similarly, everyone said electronic shifting was stupid and unnecessary and wouldn't catch on, but find a pro team now that doesn't have most if not all their riders on Di2, etap, or EPS. No more worries of cables being pinched or kinked or gunking up and shifting badly. Same with disc brakes. Not sure where your maintenance issue comes from, but I haven't had a single problem with the brakes on my Crux. 


Again, back to the original topic. I am specifically waiting on the Tarmac Pro di2 disc. I'm buying through a friend that owns a local shop and his spesh rep says Dec/Jan because they are waiting on availability of disc stuff from Shimano. Doesn't sound like it'll be any earlier, unfortunately. I've been pestering him about this for months, so I'm sure he'll let me know precisely when he hears back from Specialized.


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## Steenerk

dcorn said:


> Dude STFU already, nobody cares about your personal opinion on disc brakes! Nobody cares what you *believe* the pros are thinking. Carbon wheel rim brakes are a compromise, plain and simple. I (and apparently everyone else in this thread) am not paying for a super premium bike with the newest technology and getting compromised brakes. They hardly work in the rain and are not an ideal braking surface. Pros aren't worried about getting t-boned by a car running a red light or turning without looking. I don't have time to wait an extra 30 yards for my brakes to dry off, then finally grip while I'm trying not to die. Similarly, everyone said electronic shifting was stupid and unnecessary and wouldn't catch on, but find a pro team now that doesn't have most if not all their riders on Di2, etap, or EPS. No more worries of cables being pinched or kinked or gunking up and shifting badly. Same with disc brakes. Not sure where your maintenance issue comes from, but I haven't had a single problem with the brakes on my Crux.
> 
> 
> Again, back to the original topic. I am specifically waiting on the Tarmac Pro di2 disc. I'm buying through a friend that owns a local shop and his spesh rep says Dec/Jan because they are waiting on availability of disc stuff from Shimano. Doesn't sound like it'll be any earlier, unfortunately. I've been pestering him about this for months, so I'm sure he'll let me know precisely when he hears back from Specialized.


Thank you, thank you, thank you!

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## 11spd

dcorn said:


> Again, back to the original topic. I am specifically waiting on the Tarmac Pro di2 disc.


Sorry, electric shifting, disc brake race bikes make me laugh is all. Only thing missing is DVD player..lol.
A Harley Davidson of road bikes.


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## Steenerk

11spd said:


> Sorry, electric shifting, disc brake race bikes make me laugh is all. Only thing missing is DVD player..lol.
> A Harley Davidson of road bikes.


Until you're a sponsored racer, your views are null and void

Sent from my Nexus 6P using Tapatalk


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## Arnoud

But what about the Roubaix which is already available with DA Di2? I road it last weekend...


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## dcorn

11spd said:


> Sorry, electric shifting, disc brake race bikes make me laugh is all. Only thing missing is DVD player..lol.
> A Harley Davidson of road bikes.


I'm guessing you still drive a car with a manual trans, roll-up windows, carb'd engine, bias ply tires and drum brakes, eh?


----------



## Migen21

I don't race. 

I don't care (much) about component weight.

I want the improved braking. 

I want the additional flexibility of wider wheel and tire options. 

I have a really nice bike with rim brakes.

I have a really nice bike with disc brakes.

The rim brake bike I have is the last one I will ever buy.

Sent from my Pixel using Tapatalk


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## 11spd

dcorn said:


> I'm guessing you still drive a car with a manual trans, roll-up windows, carb'd engine, bias ply tires and drum brakes, eh?


If choosing this analogy, there is a reason why a Porsche is more minimalist than a Mercedes.


----------



## 11spd

Migen21 said:


> I don't race.
> 
> I don't care (much) about component weight.
> 
> I want the improved braking.
> 
> I want the additional flexibility of wider wheel and tire options.
> 
> I have a really nice bike with rim brakes.
> 
> I have a really nice bike with disc brakes.
> 
> The rim brake bike I have is the last one I will ever buy.
> 
> Sent from my Pixel using Tapatalk


Your probably a good candidate then. I also think that if you live in the mountains and do a lot of high speed descending...and ride a lot in wet weather, a disk brake makes sense...other than you have to drag the bike back up the mountain.


----------



## MoPho

11spd said:


> If choosing this analogy, there is a reason why a Porsche is more minimalist than a Mercedes.


LOL, you think a Porsche is minimalist! 



11spd said:


> Sorry, electric shifting, disc brake race bikes make me laugh is all. Only thing missing is DVD player..lol.
> A Harley Davidson of road bikes


Yeah, and another incorrect analogy 




11spd said:


> For the average rider who isn't in the grueling crucible of top level racing, where there isn't the onus on 50 mph descending in wet weather and where there is no UCI weight constraint of 15 lbs, demand for rim brakes should be even higher....


The irony in your argument is that the average rider doesn't need to "buy performance" such as a light bike since they are not needing to win races in order to keep their paycheck coming. No need for marginal gains when you're riding for yourself. You want to get faster, ride more, and the extra weight is good for you anyway. 
The only thing that 10lb Emonda is good for is telling your friends that you have a 10lb bike while they pass you up a hill on their 17lb bikes 


.


.


----------



## ceugene

11spd said:


> Just to be clear, I am not against disks. For example, if buying a disk brake bike with rear rack, you can bungie a Frisbee to the back. At least that disk has a modicum of utility.
> 
> I love the forecast about disk usage. Yes, the sun will burn out eventually as well. Anybody see the pro racing in CO this past year? I saw '1' disk brake bike....lol. Maybe that was a spectator who made his way onto the course? Apparently that guy didn't get the memo either.


My actual forecast is that the switch will happen basically overnight 2 years from now. There will be a clarification of the rules. Also tubulars will begin to be phased out as prevalence of disc brakes will allow for tubeless clinchers to be used.

I saw at least two Trek-Segafredo riders on disc Emondas at the Colorado Classic because it was at the UCI min weight. I definitely saw Lawson Craddock on a Disc SSEvo too. Again, it's mostly indifference and not wanting to offend the few grumps like Owain Doull who want to blame everything on discs.


----------



## 11spd

MoPo,
Its ok you don't get it. I build motorcycles as well. If anybody needs a light bike to keep up in an aggressive group ride with some climbing, its average Joe.

Hey you guys, my involvement in this thread spiraled and turned into a rebuke of disc Tarmacs. Yes, I believe electric shifting and disk brakes desecrate the great Tarmac which should be built with Campy Super Record  but pretty clear I prefer the rim brake version as do all pros that professionally race the Tarmac. New Shimano rim brake are truly amazing.

Have fun and enjoy the disk love.


----------



## 11spd

ceugene said:


> My actual forecast is that the switch will happen basically overnight 2 years from now. There will be a clarification of the rules. Also tubulars will begin to be phased out as prevalence of disc brakes will allow for tubeless clinchers to be used.
> 
> I saw at least two Trek-Segafredo riders on disc Emondas at the Colorado Classic because it was at the UCI min weight. I definitely saw Lawson Craddock on a Disc SSEvo too. Again, it's mostly indifference and not wanting to offend the few grumps like Owain Doull who want to blame everything on discs.


Anybody trying to extrapolate that in two years all pro road racers will be on disks when 99% of the current peloton is on rim brakes...sorry but that is pure folly. I see clinchers continue to gain popularity in pro racing however.

Cool you caught the Colorado Classic I mentioned previously. A decent bellwether of present disc acceptance in pro racing. We will see if disks gain any popularity in pro racing.

Don't quite understand your statement about not wanting to offend. Racers want to win and there are reasons pretty much the entire pro peloton still prefer rim brakes.


----------



## WRM4865

OK back on topic...









click on photo to enlarge


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## MoPho

11spd said:


> MoPo,
> Its ok you don't get it. I build motorcycles as well. If anybody needs a light bike to keep up in an aggressive group ride with some climbing, its average Joe.
> 
> Hey you guys, my involvement in this thread spiraled and turned into a rebuke of disc Tarmacs. Yes, I believe electric shifting and disk brakes desecrate the great Tarmac which should be built with Campy Super Record  but pretty clear I prefer the rim brake version as do all pros that professionally race the Tarmac. New Shimano rim brake are truly amazing.
> 
> Have fun and enjoy the disk love.



Yeah, and I have built lightweight minimalist cars that make Porsches look like Mack trucks in comparison. 



> If anybody needs a light bike to keep up in an aggressive group ride with some climbing, its average Joe.


If only it worked that way. 




> You might like the disks because you live in hilly country...for fast descents. Me, I prefer rim brakes *because I live in flat country*.


I found your problem :lol: 



.


----------



## dcorn

11spd said:


> MoPo,
> Its ok you don't get it. I build motorcycles as well. If anybody needs a light bike to keep up in an aggressive group ride with some climbing, its average Joe.
> 
> Hey you guys, my involvement in this thread spiraled and turned into a rebuke of disc Tarmacs. Yes, I believe electric shifting and disk brakes desecrate the great Tarmac which should be built with Campy Super Record  but pretty clear I prefer the rim brake version as do all pros that professionally race the Tarmac. New Shimano rim brake are truly amazing.
> 
> Have fun and enjoy the disk love.


We're trying.


----------



## 11spd

MoPho said:


> Yeah, and I have built lightweight minimalist cars that make Porsches look like Mack trucks in comparison.


What kind of lightweight cars have you built? Were they streetable?


----------



## ceugene

11spd said:


> Anybody trying to extrapolate that in two years all pro road racers will be on disks when 99% of the current peloton is on rim brakes...sorry but that is pure folly. I see clinchers continue to gain popularity in pro racing however.
> 
> Cool you caught the Colorado Classic I mentioned previously. A decent bellwether of present disc acceptance in pro racing. We will see if disks gain any popularity in pro racing.
> 
> Don't quite understand your statement about not wanting to offend. Racers want to win and there are reasons pretty much the entire pro peloton still prefer rim brakes.


Clinchers cannot gain popularity in the World Tour outside of TTs and other flat stages. Sidewall pressures from clinchers on comparatively weak bead hooks, heat from braking, etc. result in a dangerous combination. I just saw a Knight Composites carbon clincher rim destroyed at Phil's Fondo...I also saw many people stopped on the side of Yerba Buena descent waiting for their rim brake carbon clinchers to cool down while I bombed down on my disc clinchers without a care in the world.

If you believe clinchers (and tubeless clinchers) are going to gain more popularity in pro racing, then you must realize the enabler for this will be the continued adoption of disc brakes.

Racers want to win, but they also deal with backlash from outspoken individuals who may or may not carry weight with the CPA or other cycling "unions." There is zero risk involved in maintaining the status quo, making supporting disc brakes infinitely more risky.


----------



## Steenerk

So, when can we expect to see sl6 Disc Tarmacs? That's all I want to know.

Sent from my Nexus 6P using Tapatalk


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## Rashadabd

11spd said:


> Cross and Mtb racing is a completely different world. I prefer disks for example on both Cross an Mtb's due to tire width and riding environment. Road racing is a different environment. So is F1 and Nascar.


I am not suggesting it is the same world. I am only saying the switch can happen an lot faster than you are saying it can.


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## Rashadabd

Steenerk said:


> So, when can we expect to see sl6 Disc Tarmacs? That's all I want to know.
> 
> Sent from my Nexus 6P using Tapatalk


I read an article a while back that said December-February timeframe or something like that.


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## Rashadabd

I just want to provide some context for some of what I said about the reality that disc brakes will likely be in the pro peloton soon (not that it really matters, but anyone reading the thread should be provided some access to what is actually going on in my opinion). Anyway, they will likely be completely legal and a lot more common starting in 2019. That's the reality. We are not talking ten years from now. Whoever said 2 years is completely in the ballpark. 

UCI to continue disc brake trial in 2018 | Cyclingnews.com

In fact, Aqua Blue Sport will be racing full-time on disc only and 1X systems next year:

Aqua Blue Sport to compete on 3T Strada disc bike with 1x drivetrain in 2018 | Cyclingnews.com


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## Rashadabd

Early 2018 for the disc Tarmac is the word on the street:

2018 Specialized Tarmac SL6 unveiled | Road Bike News, Reviews, and Photos


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## MoPho

11spd said:


> What kind of lightweight cars have you built? Were they streetable?



I have a Caterham Super 7 that weights 1160lbs and before that a modified Lotus Elan that weight 1440lbs. Both street cars. I fully understand the benefit of light weight, but the weight difference to ones competition has to be really significant to really reap the benefits, particularly if there is a deficit in power. 
My disc bike weighs *1lb *more than my buddies identical rim brake version, that is nothing! In fact I have been faster up hills on my disc bike than I was on my lighter rim brake bike, and for technical descending I do, the brakes are amazing. Most riders, even in fast A group rides, are not riding 10lb Emonda's, they are riding 14-17lbs or more bikes (or race legal 6.8kg), so the reality is you are not at any significant weight disadvantage with a disc brake bike

Funny thing today; I frequently ride with a woman who is a former multi-time masters state champion, back a year ago when I was looking to get a disc bike she was, adamantly against them, rim brakes are good enough, blah, blah, blah.... This morning she showed up on a bike with hydro discs. It was only her second ride on the bike and she was already raving about how awesome the brakes are. :lol: 
Guess you need to actually ride some hills and not the flats to appreciate disc brakes :wink: 


The Tarmac disc is going to be a sweet bike, even better with electronic shifting 


.


.


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## 11spd

MoPho said:


> I have a Caterham Super 7 that weights 1160lbs and before that a modified Lotus Elan that weight 1440lbs. Both street cars. I fully understand the benefit of light weight, but the weight difference to ones competition has to be really significant to really reap the benefits, particularly if there is a deficit in power.
> My disc bike weighs *1lb *more than my buddies identical rim brake version, that is nothing! In fact I have been faster up hills on my disc bike than I was on my lighter rim brake bike, and for technical descending I do, the brakes are amazing. Most riders, even in fast A group rides, are not riding 10lb Emonda's, they are riding 14-17lbs or more bikes (or race legal 6.8kg), so the reality is you are not at any significant weight disadvantage with a disc brake bike
> 
> Funny thing today; I frequently ride with a woman who is a former multi-time masters state champion, back a year ago when I was looking to get a disc bike she was, adamantly against them, rim brakes are good enough, blah, blah, blah.... This morning she showed up on a bike with hydro discs. It was only her second ride on the bike and she was already raving about how awesome the brakes are. :lol:
> Guess you need to actually ride some hills and not the flats to appreciate disc brakes :wink:
> 
> 
> The Tarmac disc is going to be a sweet bike, even better with electronic shifting


Cool cars. Brings back memories of an Elan a buddy of mine had in college. A neighbor owned a Europa and as a car guy you will appreciate a neighbor down the street who was a retired chief engineer for now long defunct AMC had a Ferrari GTO...one of the most rare and coveted Ferraris that now fetch 7 figures. As a kid, I can still remember the sound of that small displacement V12 fired up. Literally nothing like it.

You know cars and the virtues of lightweight and yes, of course the 10 lb Emonda is almost as rare as a Lotus on the street. I love the new Shimano rim brakes personally and just don't see a need to change. I have owned disk brake bikes mostly off road....cross, 29'ers etc. Yes they stop great and terrific for off road. I live in pretty flat country and no need for discs on road. If I lived in the mountains however, I would probably be on a disk brake road bike.

I am not an electric shifting guy either but I embrace technology which contributes to lower weight and aerodynamics. I actually run Campy mechanical on two Specialized bikes, mostly because I prefer the shifters...ergo's and functionality of separate thumb and lever with fixed brake lever. I prefer Shimano cranks and brakes so I mix and match a bit. I don't believe groupsets have to be all of one brand any more than a stem mfr. has to match who makes the seatpost. A bike is just parts.

The Tarmac is a great bike with now 6 generations of development.

Cheers


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## Migen21

11spd,

You've told use your preferences, your beliefs and your predictions in this thread several times. It's cool, bus seriously, it's ok if other people feel differently. It's what makes the world go around.

Let it go.

This thread is supposed to about the Disc Tarmac. Can we get back to that?


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## 11spd

Migen21 said:


> 11spd,
> 
> You've told use your preferences, your beliefs and your predictions in this thread several times. It's cool, bus seriously, it's ok if other people feel differently. It's what makes the world go around.
> 
> Let it go.
> 
> This thread is supposed to about the Disc Tarmac. Can we get back to that?


You are right Migen. I got too wrapped up in responses to my comments and my involvement escalated beyond where it should have.

Apologies and good luck to you guys if fortunate to own a new Tarmac disk.
Cheers.


----------



## vic bastige

Steenerk said:


> So, when can we expect to see sl6 Disc Tarmacs? That's all I want to know.
> 
> Sent from my Nexus 6P using Tapatalk


This. 

This thread is everything that is wrong with forums and why many are dying. You ask what time it is and it turns into an argument about poetry.


----------



## Stumpjumper FSR

11spd/AKA "Roadworthy" - I thought you were banned from this forum?


----------



## 1Butcher

I think many of us have had our conversations/disagreements with 11spd, but it is a bit more interesting to have him back. I can say, he's toned it down but leaps and bounds. In the past, I've never seen him apologize [which I believe was sincere]. I think we should give him a pass.

Not related to the topic, but it gets a free bump anyway.


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## Rashadabd

1Butcher said:


> I think many of us have had our conversations/disagreements with 11spd, but it is a bit more interesting to have him back. I can say, he's toned it down but leaps and bounds. In the past, I've never seen him apologize [which I believe was sincere]. I think we should give him a pass.
> 
> Not related to the topic, but it gets a free bump anyway.


I actually agree with this. There's nothing wrong with expressing your opinions or passionately debating an issue on here, just keep it clean I say. Welcome back 11spd. Let's just set up a disc brake vs rim brake forum (and electronic vs mechanical, etc.) so that the topic doesn't have to bleed over into every other discussion.


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## 11spd

Rashadabd said:


> I actually agree with this. There's nothing wrong with expressing your opinions or passionately debating an issue on here, just keep it clean I say. Welcome back 11spd. Let's just set up a disc brake vs rim brake forum (and electronic vs mechanical, etc.) so that the topic doesn't have to bleed over into every other discussion.


 Thanks Rash and thanks to Butcher as well. I know some take this bike stuff to heart, but I never have. I have always felt there is a lot of room for opinion and of course I have mine exposed to too many sides of the design equation.
But competing opinions can offend and of course we live in perhaps the most contentious of times for those that follow politics and the world stage. 
To lighten the mood and somewhat on topic, kick back, put your feet up and watch the following GCN video of two of my favorite guys who constantly poke fun at each other and don’t take themselves too seriously…guys who can likely drop any of us…ex pros who can still ride…in Simon’s words, bloody fast. I really dig the GCN videos and the guys that are in them. To me, they really capture the true spirit of the sport.
Simon is my favorite I suppose because we are built similarly…I am a bit beefier but who isn’t?...but in particular Simon is a complete [email protected]$$ as I like guys who see irony and quick with a laugh and have a bit of an edge.
This video of course exposes how far bike design has come and of course those that appreciate disk brakes and electronic shifting will appreciate the comparison to more modest bike. The bike matters as most know that perhaps own a modern bike and maybe an old classic…a stark contrast.
Thought you guys would appreciate the chuckle and cheers to all that love cycling.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wdb7KEc7xJI


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## dcorn

Does the video tell us when the Tarmac disc will be released? Go post that in a relavent thread, not one where everyone but you specifically agrees on this point.


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## 11spd

dcorn said:


> Does the video tell us when the Tarmac disc will be released? Go post that in a relavent thread, not one where everyone but you specifically agrees on this point.


dcorn,
Because you are such a sweet guy and you think you have dominion over what other’s post and use offensive terms like STFU which is clearly against forum policy, here is a thought for you.
Maybe Specialized won’t be releasing the Tarmac disk because of lack of demand? After all, many Tarmac riders extrapolate from what pro’s ride and the Tarmac disk is nowhere to be found in the pro peloton. Guess what? Tarmac rim brake bike by contrast is probably the most popular race bike of all time, past, present and likely future.
Learn it, love it, live it.


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## vic bastige

11spd said:


> dcorn,
> Because you are such a sweet guy and you think you have dominion over what other’s post and use offensive terms like STFU which is clearly against forum policy, here is a thought for you.
> Maybe Specialized won’t be releasing the Tarmac disk because of lack of demand? After all, many Tarmac riders extrapolate from what pro’s ride and the Tarmac disk is nowhere to be found in the pro peloton. Guess what? Tarmac rim brake bike by contrast is probably the most popular race bike of all time, past, present and likely future.
> Learn it, love it, live it.



Man, you ARE chronic. We are just trying to stay on topic. A thread on the merits of disc vs. rim brake would be a good idea in the proper forum. Particularly since that has not been sufficiently vetted yet.


----------



## 11spd

vic bastige said:


> Man, you ARE chronic. We are just trying to stay on topic. A thread on the merits of disc vs. rim brake would be a good idea in the proper forum. Particularly since that has not been sufficiently vetted yet.


Who put you in charge of forum designator? Self appointed?...lol.

Meanwhile, because you insist, back OT. When are those new Tarmac disks going to show up? Don't hold out on us. We want answers.


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## Rashadabd

A safe space.....

http://forums.roadbikereview.com/ge...-vs-rim-brakes-thread-362675.html#post5193215


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## dcorn

Rashadabd said:


> A safe space.....
> 
> http://forums.roadbikereview.com/ge...-vs-rim-brakes-thread-362675.html#post5193215


Based on his last two posts, something tells me 11spd will continue to troll this thread regardless.


----------



## 11spd

dcorn said:


> Based on his last two posts, something tells me 11spd will continue to troll this thread regardless.


Nope. I have moved to the other thread that Rash correctly started. As to you being right, all along, not so much. Have fun with your disc bikes boys. A parting friendly tip. If you have the dreaded disc brake squeal after trying the usual things, its likely a blow seal wicking fluid onto the pad and disc...has happened on a few new Spesh hydro disc bikes now. Maybe you will be lucky. Peace out.


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## dcorn

11spd said:


> Nope. I have moved to the other thread that Rash correctly started. As to you being right, all along, not so much. Have fun with your disc bikes boys. A parting friendly tip. If you have the dreaded disc brake squeal after trying the usual things, its likely a blow seal wicking fluid onto the pad and disc...has happened on a few new Spesh hydro disc bikes now. Maybe you will be lucky. Peace out.


Lol thanks, I didn't realize Specialized made disc brake calipers and faulty ones at that! I guess they suck at everything!


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## WRM4865

_*We were told that the disc brake version hit the scale at an amazing 14.5 pounds.*_​
https://roadbikeaction.com/home-page/first-ride-the-specialized-tarmac-gets-a-facelift-for-2018


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## Arnoud

Nice picture, but still no news.... Anxiously waiting for any info I can find, to do at least the same as Sagan in this way and to train on a disc brake bike (check out his newest T-Mobile Advert and see that this is not made up https://www.facebook.com/PeterSagan/posts/10156053898489467 )


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## WRM4865

Arnoud said:


> Nice picture, but still no news.... Anxiously waiting for any info I can find.


I've got no skin in this game...that being said your best bet is to go to your Specialized dealer and have them contact the Specialized Rep as he will most likely have a clue.

Remember once announced you gotta pull the trigger waiting till someone else gets one and then deciding will have you back of the line.


----------



## Steenerk

WRM4865 said:


> I've got no skin in this game...that being said your best bet is to go to your Specialized dealer and have them contact the Specialized Rep as he will most likely have a clue.
> 
> Remember once announced you gotta pull the trigger waiting till someone else gets one and then deciding will have you back of the line.


My LBS told me his resume said end of Sept beginning Oct. Well that's came and gone. I've been sitting in an insurance claim since June. I guess a few more months isn't a big deal. 

Sent from my Nexus 6P using Tapatalk


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## Arnoud

Sure thing WRM4865. But still, any sign of the Big S. would be great...


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## Rashadabd

Arnoud said:


> Sure thing WRM4865. But still, any sign of the Big S. would be great...
> 
> 
> Verzonden vanaf mijn iPad met Tapatalk


I posted a while ago and linked an I article I believe indicating that you are likely looking at the end of 2017 or beginning of 2018. Any confirmation beyond that will have to come from an authorized dealer. They're not even on their homepage or being marketed yet, so it's certainly not going to be soon. I wouldn't be surprised if it's January or February, etc.


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## dcorn

Someone suggested they might be waiting for the spring classics, but that would take away from the Roubaix and futureshock. I would think going into winter would be a perfect time for a reveal given discs really shine in adverse weather conditions.

Like I said before, I got a direct quote from a Spesh rep thru my dealer saying Dec/Jan due to Shimano disc group availability. Go see for yourself if you can find the new DA/Ultegra groups available for sale anywhere with discs. I am really chomping at the bit to see what colors will be on the Pro disc frames, and to get my hands on one.


----------



## Rashadabd

dcorn said:


> Someone suggested they might be waiting for the spring classics, but that would take away from the Roubaix and futureshock. I would think going into winter would be a perfect time for a reveal given discs really shine in adverse weather conditions.
> 
> Like I said before, I got a direct quote from a Spesh rep thru my dealer saying Dec/Jan due to Shimano disc group availability. Go see for yourself if you can find the new DA/Ultegra groups available for sale anywhere with discs. I am really chomping at the bit to see what colors will be on the Pro disc frames, and to get my hands on one.


Shimano components being the holdup is what I'm hearing as well. It's reportedly the same for may 2018 models, it's not just a Specialized issue.


----------



## Steenerk

Rashadabd said:


> Shimano components being the holdup is what I'm hearing as well. It's reportedly the same for may 2018 models, it's not just a Specialized issue.


That stinks, for me, I would rather have Sram. Guess I will see the frame options and build.

Sent from my Nexus 6P using Tapatalk


----------



## Rashadabd

Steenerk said:


> That stinks, for me, I would rather have Sram. Guess I will see the frame options and build.
> 
> Sent from my Nexus 6P using Tapatalk


Yeah, Specialized hasn't really run a lot of Sram components for a while. I suspect that might change for them and other brands if Shimano can't keep up with demand. Sram and Campy should jump on this opportunity if they can.


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## Rashadabd

Oh and unfortunately, no disc framesets have been advertised either. And if the rim brake framesets provide any insight into what the pricing may be, it looks like a Sworks frameset will cost almost as much as Fact 10 complete bike.....


----------



## Steenerk

Rashadabd said:


> Oh and unfortunately, no disc framesets have been advertised either. And if the rim brake framesets provide any insight into what the pricing may be, it looks like a Sworks frameset will cost almost as much as Fact 10 complete bike.....


I wonder that too. Maybe I will just order a Canyon Ultimate 🤯 Get it with eTap for $6500

Sent from my Nexus 6P using Tapatalk


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## WRM4865

dcorn said:


> Like I said before, I got a direct quote from a Spesh rep thru my dealer saying Dec/Jan due to Shimano disc group availability. Go see for yourself if you can find the new DA/Ultegra groups available for sale anywhere with discs.


The "New" Disc Dura-Ace stuff actually is available. I ordered this Venge Vias Di2 Disc sight unseen back on July 22nd there was no info on the Specialized website just my dealer told me they were coming out. I pulled the trigger ordered it and waited... Specialized finally updated their website without any fanfare on the Venge Vias on labor day weekend. The bike showed up to the shop two months after I had first heard about it on Sept 22nd.

If you are waiting on news from Specialized to come out with info first before you act then you are gonna be disappointed. I strongly suggest again to be pro-active and ask your dealer to contact your their specialized representative to nail down a time when the bikes will be available to order. The info will be available on the dealer website long before any info is put on the specialized website. 

BTW I had a previous generation S-Works Tarmac Di2 Disc and this Venge Vias Di2 Disc is LIGHT YEARS better if just pure speed and fast group rides are your thing. I realize the Venge Vias is a pretty polarizing bike but it just makes you want to ride faster. 

Anyhow back on topic to the Tarmac Disc you wont know unless you ASK. 









http://forums.roadbikereview.com/specialized/2018-s-works-venge-vias-disc-di2-361575-2.html


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## ceugene

14.5lbs for a disc bike is dubious unless they mean without pedals. My Emonda SLR Disc frame weighs 760g (Trek-Segafredo paint,) and the complete bike weighs 15.8lbs with pedals.

However considering Specialized is shipping Ultralight frames that actually weigh 790g and painted frames that weigh 900g, I do not trust any of their weight claims.

I also don’t believe the Shimano delay claim at all. Other brands have been shipping 9170 bikes for a while and eTap HRD is readily available.


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## WRM4865

ceugene said:


> 14.5lbs for a disc bike is dubious unless they mean without pedals. My Emonda SLR Disc frame weighs 760g (Trek-Segafredo paint,) and the complete bike weighs 15.8lbs with pedals.
> 
> However considering Specialized is shipping Ultralight frames that actually weigh 790g and painted frames that weigh 900g, I do not trust any of their weight claims.


believe it!

I have seen, and briefly ridden a 56cm Tarmac Ultralight it's legit!

sub-14 lbs on a park tool scale at my local shop.

It was for a $$$ customer so it came in and went out within 24 hours.

nevertheless if they can make a sub-14 lbs rim brake superlight tarmac I'm sure they can do a 14.5 lbs disc superlight.


----------



## ceugene

Disc brakes add at minimum about 1lb to a bike. My Emonda SLR Disc frameset is lighter than whatever the Tarmac Disc frameset is going to weigh. Admittedly I can drop 150g with a bar/stem combo, 60g with an ultralight saddle, 2x40g with ultralight tubeless tires, 100g with lighter wheels, and maybe another 150g with lighter pedals. So yeah I could get the bike around 14.6lbs with effort.

The reality is most Tarmac UL Discs are going to be over 16lbs.


----------



## Arnoud

Apparently something is going to happen in January. Let's hope it relates to the Tarmac disc...


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----------



## dcorn

Source? Seems a long way out for a teaser.


----------



## Arnoud

Shop through S. Europe


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----------



## WRM4865

11spd said:


> I am not an electric shifting guy either but I embrace technology which contributes to lower weight and aerodynamics.


welcome to the future...

Aqua Blue Sport to break ground with single-ring bikes in 2018 | VeloNews.com


----------



## Arnoud

Just to keep this topic alive: anybody any news which I may have missed? No news from my connections.


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----------



## totallypumped

It will be released & rode mid January at the Tour Down Under in Australia.
This info comes from Specialized dealers and is confirmed.


----------



## Arnoud

That's good news!!! Looking forward to it. My birthday is mid January so that we be ideal If you see pro's training at the moment a lot of them are on discs. Especially BMC riders you see using disc equipped bikes. 


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----------



## Rashadabd

Arnoud said:


> That's good news!!! Looking forward to it. My birthday is mid January so that we be ideal If you see pro's training at the moment a lot of them are on discs. Especially BMC riders you see using disc equipped bikes.
> 
> 
> Verzonden vanaf mijn iPad met Tapatalk


I bought a Fuji SL Disc about two months ago and I love it. I am really interested in the Tarmac Disc as well as a potential frameset purchase, but we'll see where the pricing ends up.


----------



## rickturbo

*140/140 discs*



dcorn said:


> It's not about having the lightest bike in the world and it's not about what the pros want (or are paid) to use. (Look at Kittel, he was riding multiple races and winning on disc brakes. Then someone falsely accused his discs of cutting them and he stopped because he doesn't want **** from his fellow riders. So it has nothing to do with their performance, discs still have a stigma in pro cycling. Go check the pro CX ranks and see how many rim brakes are there...) If I'm spending $6k or more on a bike, it better have the best technology available. So if they make a Tarmac with electronic shifting, disc brakes, carbon wheels, and tubeless tires, I'm 100% going to buy that model. I'm dead set on buying a new Tarmac and could have the Pro Di2 model very soon, but I'm electing to wait on the disc version to come out. What's a few months when I'll be riding the CX bike in races and gravel rides through the fall anyway?
> 
> I haven't moved to carbon wheels on my road bike because I don't want brakes that suck when they get wet or possibly explode if I use them too much going down a hill. I bought Mavic exalith Cosmic wheels instead to get even better braking power than normal aluminum wheels while still being aero. I was considering swapping these wheels over to a new Tarmac with rim brakes, but why give up really nice factory spec'd carbon wheels for something way heavier when I can just wait a bit and get the best braking and keep the lightweight wheels.
> 
> 
> Has anyone ridden a bike with 140/140 disc brakes and said 'wow, this is not enough braking power' or 'crap, I'm descending so much that my brake fluid is boiling and rotors warping with this small front rotor'? Just wondering since I'm 200+ lbs and could probably benefit from a bigger front rotor. Maybe that's what part of the holdup is, trying to figure out if they should go bigger in the front. My Crux is 160/140 and that's made for short cross courses without long periods of braking. I can't imagine a bike made for flying down mountain roads would have less braking power.


I changed the front disc of my Vias from 160 to 140 and quickly discovered that it wasn’t enough braking power. Went back to 160.


----------



## Arnoud

https://instagram.com/p/BcxH936hJvL/

Look at this! First ones. 


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----------



## Ritsuke

Top one looks gourgeous! :thumbsup:


----------



## Steenerk

Arnoud said:


> https://instagram.com/p/BcxH936hJvL/
> 
> Look at this! First ones.
> 
> 
> Verzonden vanaf mijn iPad met Tapatalk


What about non s works

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## combfilter

For those of you with the true insider connections can you find out what the facts are about how wide of tire the disc version will be able to handle? We know the rim brake version will handle up to a 30's. I "think" this limitation is part of the brake caliper of rim brakes. So I am hoping that the disc version should be able to handle larger 32's. 

Before any of you starting saying "if you want 32's you should get the crux or roubaix"...Yeah I get it. However, I want to ride my tarmac on mixed terrain and 32's would allow this. 

Thanks,


----------



## Steenerk

I get what you are saying. I put 32s on my Crux this summer and rode in the mountains. Rode up My Evans. I have 42 / 42-10 Force 1X. I was thinking of doing the mix riding with my Crux but I want a bike just for road as well. I don't want to have to change tires all the time. That's why I want the Tarmac, but with disc.


combfilter said:


> For those of you with the true insider connections can you find out what the facts are about how wide of tire the disc version will be able to handle? We know the rim brake version will handle up to a 30's. I "think" this limitation is part of the brake caliper of rim brakes. So I am hoping that the disc version should be able to handle larger 32's.
> 
> Before any of you starting saying "if you want 32's you should get the crux or roubaix"...Yeah I get it. However, I want to ride my tarmac on mixed terrain and 32's would allow this.
> 
> Thanks,


I get what you are saying. I put 32s on my Crux this summer and rode in the mountains. Rode up My Evans. I have 42 / 42-10 Force 1X. I was thinking of doing the mix riding with my Crux but I want a bike just for road as well. I don't want to have to change tires all the time. That's why I want the Tarmac, but with disc.









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----------



## WRM4865

combfilter said:


> I want to ride my tarmac on mixed terrain and 32's would allow this.


don't shoot the messenger but wouldn't the Specialized Roubaix be more in tune to what you are looking for?


----------



## Rashadabd

combfilter said:


> For those of you with the true insider connections can you find out what the facts are about how wide of tire the disc version will be able to handle? We know the rim brake version will handle up to a 30's. I "think" this limitation is part of the brake caliper of rim brakes. So I am hoping that the disc version should be able to handle larger 32's.
> 
> Before any of you starting saying "if you want 32's you should get the crux or roubaix"...Yeah I get it. However, I want to ride my tarmac on mixed terrain and 32's would allow this.
> 
> Thanks,


My guess is it will officially be 30mm (though you can probably fit slightly wider tires if you want). The reasons behind my guess are 1.) the rim brake version is direct mount and not dual caliper which is closer to what you would get by going with disc brakes; 2.) they have indicated they are trying to keep the geometry and the handling identical for both the rim and disc brake bikes so pros won't need to make any adjustments (multiple bike brands are doing that this year); 3.) they are not going to overlap the strengths of their other bike lines (Roubiax, Crux, Diverge etc.).


----------



## dcorn

Steenerk said:


> I get what you are saying. I put 32s on my Crux this summer and rode in the mountains. Rode up My Evans. I have 42 / 42-10 Force 1X. I was thinking of doing the mix riding with my Crux but I want a bike just for road as well. I don't want to have to change tires all the time. That's why I want the Tarmac, but with disc. I get what you are saying. I put 32s on my Crux this summer and rode in the mountains. Rode up My Evans. I have 42 / 42-10 Force 1X. I was thinking of doing the mix riding with my Crux but I want a bike just for road as well. I don't want to have to change tires all the time. That's why I want the Tarmac, but with disc.


Yup, I did the same thing. 32c tubeless tires were awesome on all the rough roads around here and the disc brakes made me feel 100x safer with all the crazy inattentive drivers. Switching back to 25c tires and rim brakes was brutal. 

I'll be ordering a non-Sworks Tarmac disc the second they are announced.


----------



## Steenerk

dcorn said:


> Yup, I did the same thing. 32c tubeless tires were awesome on all the rough roads around here and the disc brakes made me feel 100x safer with all the crazy inattentive drivers. Switching back to 25c tires and rim brakes was brutal.
> 
> I'll be ordering a non-Sworks Tarmac disc the second they are announced.


Yeah, I'm going to order a non s works disc when available. My insurance totalled out my Roubaix so I'm going with the Tarmac disc as a replacement. 

Have to say the discs were nice coming down Mt Evans. I had sleet, rain, hail, and all in 20 some miles down. Pretty sure I was close to hypothermic when u got into Idaho Springs. Took shelter at a pull off and say there do for 15 mins because of whiteout conditions. I've never shivered so bad. But, in the end, it was all worth it.

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----------



## combfilter

WRM4865 said:


> don't shoot the messenger but wouldn't the Specialized Roubaix be more in tune to what you are looking for?


No it would not. I love my tarmac and love my fit on that bike. I ride 90% pavement but there's times we have gravel races, etc. that I'd love to just throw some 32's on there and keep my same position. Heck i'd even still run road pedals in a gravel race. So I don't want to have a completely different bike just to ride 10% gravel, plus I don't want a different fit. I just want to swap wheels from 28's to 32's and be on my way. I am already riding my current tarmac on gravel with 25 tubeless. It's fine, but 32's would rule on the more chunky stuff.


----------



## combfilter

Rashadabd said:


> My guess is it will officially be 30mm (though you can probably fit slightly wider tires if you want). The reasons behind my guess are 1.) the rim brake version is direct mount and not dual caliper which is closer to what you would get by going with disc brakes; 2.) they have indicated they are trying to keep the geometry and the handling identical for both the rim and disc brake bikes so pros won't need to make any adjustments (multiple bike brands are doing that this year); 3.) they are not going to overlap the strengths of their other bike lines (Roubiax, Crux, Diverge etc.).


In the back of my mind I think you are 100% correct. I've thought the same things myself, but there's a small part of me that's just hoping somehow the disc version lets you bump up to 32's. However, what you wrote makes a lot of sense.


----------



## combfilter

@dcorn and @steenerk 
Yeah a lot of my friends with crux will put those 32 road tubeless roubaix tires on their crux and will ride them on most road rides instead of their tarmacs. They all say "it's just so nice and comfy".. The only time they pull out their tarmacs if it's like a really intense fast ride. 

I will prob. run this new tarmac 1x. My buddy is running the older 2014 tarmac with 1x and the wolftooth goatlink and di2 with 0 issues. He even lives in the hilly part of PA and does just fine with a 46 up front. He is running sram 11sp mtb cassette.


----------



## dcorn

combfilter said:


> @dcorn and @steenerk
> Yeah a lot of my friends with crux will put those 32 road tubeless roubaix tires on their crux and will ride them on most road rides instead of their tarmacs. They all say "it's just so nice and comfy".. The only time they pull out their tarmacs if it's like a really intense fast ride.
> 
> I will prob. run this new tarmac 1x. My buddy is running the older 2014 tarmac with 1x and the wolftooth goatlink and di2 with 0 issues. He even lives in the hilly part of PA and does just fine with a 46 up front. He is running sram 11sp mtb cassette.


Yeap, been taking my Crux to sunday morning road rides and keeping up with everyone just fine. My problem is I like going fast down hills and I spin out at around 37 mph with a 42x11. And a 42x36 is just barely enough gear to get me up some of the short, steep climbs in this area. 


As for your friend's 1x tarmac, can you tell me what he did up front to run a 46T chainring? I have a '12 Tarmac with a busted FD hanger and want to run it 1x for the time being, but I can't figure out how to do 1x on the S-works carbon crank and spider. What ring and chainring bolts does he use?


----------



## WRM4865

combfilter said:


> So I don't want to have a completely different bike just to ride 10% gravel, plus I don't want a different fit.


One bike to rule them all!


----------



## combfilter

dcorn said:


> As for your friend's 1x tarmac, can you tell me what he did up front to run a 46T chainring? I have a '12 Tarmac with a busted FD hanger and want to run it 1x for the time being, but I can't figure out how to do 1x on the S-works carbon crank and spider. What ring and chainring bolts does he use?


Here's the info from him, i'll PM you the pic as to not pollute this topic with non disc photos:
It’s a 48 ring with a 10/42 XX1 cassette. But I just ordered a 44 oval WT ring to go with the 9/32 3T cassette. If I get a medium cage rear der, I won’t have to run the WT Road Link with the new setup.


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## Steenerk

So, it's a new year. Where are the disc versions!?

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## K4m1k4z3

Steenerk said:


> So, it's a new year. Where are the disc versions!?


February. Keep checking Tour Down Under and related news.


----------



## Arnoud

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## Steenerk

Arnoud said:


> Verzonden vanaf mijn iPad met Tapatalk


Finally, I can't wait any longer

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----------



## MMsRepBike

Another team not using the Dura-Ace rotors. Just noticing things.


----------



## dcorn

https://twitter.com/skylar_mars24/status/941302190924210176


----------



## combfilter

OK this could be B.S. but here's the story I got from one of the few bikes shops that carries both Trek and Specialized in the country (grandfathered in before the whole 55% of floor must be either trek of spesh rule). The delay on the new tarmacs is also the same delay on the new trek sl7's and 8's and other New Ultegra spec'd bikes. 

Shimano is really behind in manufacturing and specifically the NEW ultegra shifter/brake combo that have the trickle down tech from DuraAce in the smaller hoods. Specialized will have to offer a ui2 version of this bike to compete with trek. They can't do this if shimano does not have the new ui2 brake/shifter combo's ready to ship or even manufactured. They don't expect to be shipping the new ultgra hydro group (the ones with the small hoods) till mid march. 

So what you will probably see is yes at the TDU you will see a presser of the new disc tarmacs. They will release it then, but more than likely you will only be able to get the s-works with DA models right away. The ultegra models for us common folk will be announced, but not available till late march. Again because shimano. 

This is hearsay but again this shop is one of the largest in the country and they def. know their trek and spesh bikes.


----------



## Steenerk

I don't care about Shimano, I would rather have Sram. But that's just me. I want to build 1x anyways. At least let me get the frame.

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## WRM4865

combfilter said:


> Again because shimano.


Interesting as I'm still waiting for the new Dura-Ace 9100 (carbon clincher) wheels to appear for purchase somewhere. 

Your reasoning with the Ultegra R8000 slow release sounds about right. Is the SRAM Force disc out of the question due to the fact it's not electronic shift?

I would imagine the S-Works disc tarmac level will have the Etap SRAM and or Dura-Ace Di2 options and maybe they will have a mechanical/hydro SRAM offering for the non-S-Works and then mid-season introduce the Ui2 version. 

Or... 

The Venge Vias Di2 Disc S-Works comes with the 9100 Dura-Ace and the Venge Vias Pro Disc also comes with 9100 Dura-Ace but at $3000 cheaper Hmmm... I'm now revisiting my decision last summer. Nevertheless perhaps they will do the same to the new tarmac disc.


----------



## K4m1k4z3

combfilter said:


> OK this could be B.S. but here's the story I got from one of the few bikes shops that carries both Trek and Specialized in the country...


If I understand this correctly the affected version is only the Ultegra Di2 Hydro (8070) and NOT the mechanical version (8020) or both?


----------



## Finx

WRM4865 said:


> Interesting as I'm still waiting for the new Dura-Ace 9100 (carbon clincher) wheels to appear for purchase somewhere.


I bought a set of 9100 C-24's two months ago from probikekit. An LBS has them on the display floor as well...


----------



## dcorn

The Shimano supply story is the same thing I heard back at the beginning of October (and posted about earlier in this thread...) from a Spesh rep, but nobody wanted to believe it. Makes you wonder if any other companies are delivering their Ui2 disc bikes since they have already released them (BMC, Canyon, Giant, etc)

But this would explain why the '18 Venge Vias Pro Disc comes with mech/hydro Dura Ace instead of Di2/hydro Ultegra. They couldn't get the Ui2 out in time, so they upgraded and stuck with mechanical for a bit more money than the usual Pro. I really hope they don't do this with the Tarmac because I don't want to buy a new bike and have to upgrade the components.


----------



## taodemon

WRM4865 said:


> The Venge Vias Di2 Disc S-Works comes with the 9100 Dura-Ace and the Venge Vias Pro Disc also comes with 9100 Dura-Ace but at $3000 cheaper Hmmm... I'm now revisiting my decision last summer. Nevertheless perhaps they will do the same to the new tarmac disc.


You mean 9170 on the sworks? For 3000 more you are getting the integrated stem (pro doesn't have this), di2 vs mechanical shifting, CLX vs CL wheels (ceramic bearings being difference?) sworks seat vs expert. Those are the only immediate differences I noticed, so it is questionable if those things alone are worth the extra 3k though you do have that nice chameleon color. 

That said, the expert/pro non disc tarmacs are only the 10r carbon which is different from the VIAS which is all 11r regardless of sworks or not. The sworks tarmacs are also 12r and not 11r so supposedly 2 grades better than the pro/expert variations? 

At this point I'm waiting to see what they do with the next model of venge. If they can keep it as aero as the ViAS while removing the weight penalty of the current one I might go for that instead of the new Tarmac, but that means waiting longer, which given my current lack of budget might not be that big an issue.


----------



## Arnoud

Starting to wonder whether we will actually be seeing the disc brake Tarmac in the TDU, with all of the other new Specialized items popping up there: helmet, shoes, powermeter. 


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## tony_mm

I will bet the Tarmac disc will be seen there!! If not they definitely have a problem with it!


----------



## combfilter

Arnoud said:


> Starting to wonder whether we will actually be seeing the disc brake Tarmac in the TDU, with all of the other new Specialized items popping up there: helmet, shoes, powermeter.
> 
> 
> Verzonden vanaf mijn iPad met Tapatalk


You will see something about the disc tarmac for sure around the TDU. This whole thing mostly affects the mid line models the price point bikes that would be spec'd with ultega di2. This is a big group and sounds like you wont be able to get this bike till after march. 

However if you want the s works version which I am sure will be spec'd with DA then you should be fine to place an order and probably get it in two weeks. 

Same thing applies to mech or lower end models. They can even spec those with sram or whatever cheap stuff they decide to oem on them.

This whole thing mostly affects their ui2 level but that happens to be a big seller in most markets. 

You could maybe buy the s works frameset and build up with the new ui2 or older fatter hood ui2 pretty fast. 


So i am guessing they announce it all around tdu, and even put all the bikes up on their site. You will be able to order all with the caveat that if you order ui2 you are not getting it till probably apr. This could all be wrong but who knows. Being a mountain biker i'll gladly wait it out to have shimano hydro over sram.


----------



## Arnoud

Sounds good!  I am in for an S-works...


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## tony_mm

I am keen to see which colours/ paint they will offer.


----------



## Rashadabd

The site is currently being updated. My guess is this is it.


----------



## Arnoud

Keep the updates coming!!


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## dcorn

Site is back up, I don't see any changes to bikes, shoes, helmets, etc.


----------



## Rashadabd

dcorn said:


> Site is back up, I don't see any changes to bikes, shoes, helmets, etc.


It may have been behind the scenes work to prepare for a TDU launch or something like that. I can't see them voluntarily taking their site down for some basic maintenance, etc. My guess is they are getting ready. The TDU starts in like 6 days.


----------



## thumper8888

dcorn said:


> Site is back up, I don't see any changes to bikes, shoes, helmets, etc.


Shoes and helmet are up, kind of. Essentially just an acknowledgement that they exist... which is already public knowledge. So, just opt to give them your email for when they are ready to do the usual full marketing press with some sort of deceptive patter about how much faster the helmet is.
The helmet and shoes do like nice tho.


----------



## taodemon

Site is undergoing maintenance again this morning and the TDU is currently underway I believe (saw something on instagram about Sagan winning first stage on what looked to be a rim brake ViAS). So might be a good day to watch the site for new stuff.


----------



## dcorn

Sagan got third on the first stage.

Spoiler alert!

Greipel won Stage one. Sagan won the People's Choice Crit, I think on a Venge as well. 


The Spesh site is back up with zero updates.


----------



## taodemon

dcorn said:


> Sagan got third on the first stage.
> 
> Spoiler alert!
> 
> Greipel won Stage one. Sagan won the People's Choice Crit, I think on a Venge as well.
> 
> 
> The Spesh site is back up with zero updates.


Ahh, that's what it was then. I guess I didn't realize the People's Choice thing wasn't one of the stages. 

Yeah, no updates other than saying the new evade and shoe is coming soon (assuming those weren't there before).


----------



## Steenerk

The ultralights are gone from the page and the bike pictures are rearranged. Tarmacs that is.

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## dcorn

I'm still seeing the UL frameset and full bike. Things are rearranged, but nothing is missing that I can tell. 

I'll be measuring myself for a Canyon Aeroad pretty soon here.


----------



## tony_mm

Specialized certainly has a problem with their Tarmac disc...


----------



## Steenerk

I refreshed my page and it did show the ultralights on the bottom of the page.

I'm with you on Canyon. Think I might go for the ultimate or endurance. Maybe the inflite, I'm doing more mostly gravel now. I do ride my Crux on the group rides.

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----------



## taodemon

The order has been rearranged and I believe the comp sl5 disc bike that is on there is new but nothing on the sl6 yet. 

I just noticed the price on the ultralight frame jumped up to $4750. I can't remember if it used to be 4400 or 4300.


----------



## squareslinky

https://instagram.com/p/BeI2yU7j4dW/

SRAM road pic on instagram. New tarmac disc. It’s a team bike.


----------



## tony_mm

Yes the same as the pic posted before!


----------



## Fatfastfreddy

Tdu is over, no tarmac disc. Will there even be a 2018 model available? my patience is running out.


----------



## Steenerk

Fatfastfreddy said:


> Tdu is over, no tarmac disc. Will there even be a 2018 model available? my patience is running out.


Same here. My LBS checked with their rep. Sounds like March or April now

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----------



## dcorn

Fatfastfreddy said:


> Tdu is over, no tarmac disc. Will there even be a 2018 model available? my patience is running out.


Mine ran out. Ordered an Aeroad disc on Friday. I'm betting I'll be riding mine before the Tarmac disc is even 'revealed'.


----------



## WRM4865

Fatfastfreddy said:


> Tdu is over, no tarmac disc. Will there even be a 2018 model available? my patience is running out.


I'm diggin' my 2018 S-Works Venge Vias Di2 Disc just sayin...

As nice as my 2016 S-Works Tarmac Di2 Disc _was _the Venge Vias Disc is much "nicer" if going fast is your thing. 

The Venge Vias Disc models are and have been available for quite sometime might as well look into it.


----------



## tony_mm

WRM4865 said:


> The Venge Vias Disc models are and have been available for quite sometime might as well look into it.


Indeed a long time it has been in the market.
I suppose that’s the next to be updated from Specialized.


----------



## WRM4865

tony_mm said:


> I suppose that’s the next to be updated from Specialized.


The Venge Vias came out in 2016 with the rim brake version then in 2017 the rim brake model was discontinued and the Venge Vias Disc came about the 2018 models are all disc too with the option of SRAM or Dura-Ace at the S-Works level. 

I do believe the first edition of Venge bikes came out in 2011 and I had a 2013 S-Works SRAM Red model with the last year being the 2015's so approx a five year run per model it seems.

That being said Specialized most likely won't change the current Venge Vias for a couple more years. I would like to see them do something as in update with the goofball stem/handlebar similar to what Giant has done with the Propel model.

Yeah I understand that the Tarmac is Specialized flagship bike and the Venge has always been an acquired taste. I've owned both yet gravitate to the Venge as the bike I prefer.


----------



## dcorn

WRM4865 said:


> Yeah I understand that the Tarmac is Specialized flagship bike and the Venge has always been an acquired taste. I've owned both yet gravitate to the Venge as the bike I prefer.


I might have done the same and bought a Vias, but they got rid of the Ultegra Di2/Disc option this year and went to DA Mech/Disc for the Pro model. I had a deal to get 30% off a new Specialized bike, but ended up forgoing it because they didn't sell a bike I wanted. It was either wait forever for the Tarmac Disc or get the Venge Vias Pro and spend another $1500 to swap out the shifters for electronic. Too long of a wait and too expensive/complicated. Sorry Spesh, you lost a sale and a lifetime customer.


----------



## WRM4865

dcorn said:


> Ordered an Aeroad disc on Friday.


Hey as a certified bike snob I'll admit those Canyon bikes are pretty nice. A few months ago a new victim/rider showed up to our Saturday morning testosterone fueled d*ck measuring hammerfest ride. Nevertheless he is foreign Scottish I think as I couldn't understand half what he was talking about and riding a Canyon Ultimate that he brought over to the states. 

I had never seen one in the flesh but this ultegra level bike was totally legit. My body seems to accommodate specialized bike geometries after nine year riding them so I've got no idea how the Canyon bike would feel/fit but I do see that Canyon has a fit calculator on their website.

I'd like to see what you got


----------



## Arnoud

At least the pictures get bette and better...


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## Feddesman

I went to the show Velofolies in belgium at the specialized stand they told me the frames are shipped right now.
First will be delivered end of march.
The problem is everybody who I talk to( dealers, specialized chat etc ) says something different ....


----------



## TricrossRich

Supposedly, QS Floors showed a pic of some of the guys training on the Tarmac Disc before the Vuelta San Juan on their instagram and then they pulled it down because they weren't supposed to show the bike yet.


----------



## dcorn

TricrossRich said:


> Supposedly, QS Floors showed a pic of some of the guys training on the Tarmac Disc before the Vuelta San Juan on their instagram and then they pulled it down because they weren't supposed to show the bike yet.


https://www.instagram.com/p/BeGHH9sHkdR/?taken-by=fernandogaviriarendon

This pic has been up for a week or more, at least one or two of the QS guys have been training on them for a while (video is in this thread). He's also wearing the new Evade and S-works shoes, but I guess Spesh is OK with putting up teasers about those. 

Plus the women's team has the tarmac disc allll over their social media and website. They are racing on them, how are they supposed to hide from the cameras?


I really hope they eventually have some sort of explanation about why they waited so long to reveal the bike. Even if they came out months ago and said "none will be available until summer", fine! But why try to keep everyone in the dark when multiple pro teams are riding the bikes and websites posted pictures and acknowledged it's existence wayyyy back in July at the original SL6 reveal??


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## tony_mm

Really surprising what the Marketing of Specialized is doing with the Tarmac disc. No info. Some pics from the Pros. All sales reps and distributors have different information or opinions...

Actually pretty good to increase the craziness about this bike - but they just don‘t get it that many other manufacturers have already their Premium bike with disc for 2018 and that many potential buyers of the Tarmac disc have now ordered a different bike .....

Maybe they have a new Marketing Director...


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## atrain2787

Another pic here:

https://www.instagram.com/p/BelhOmdgp9D/?taken-by=jipvandenbos


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## dcorn

WRM4865 said:


> Hey as a certified bike snob I'll admit those Canyon bikes are pretty nice. A few months ago a new victim/rider showed up to our Saturday morning testosterone fueled d*ck measuring hammerfest ride. Nevertheless he is foreign Scottish I think as I couldn't understand half what he was talking about and riding a Canyon Ultimate that he brought over to the states.
> 
> I had never seen one in the flesh but this ultegra level bike was totally legit. My body seems to accommodate specialized bike geometries after nine year riding them so I've got no idea how the Canyon bike would feel/fit but I do see that Canyon has a fit calculator on their website.
> 
> I'd like to see what you got





tony_mm said:


> Really surprising what the Marketing of Specialized is doing with the Tarmac disc. No info. Some pics from the Pros. All sales reps and distributors have different information or opinions...
> 
> Actually pretty good to increase the craziness about this bike - but they just don‘t get it that many other manufacturers have already their Premium bike with disc for 2018 and that many potential buyers of the Tarmac disc have now ordered a different bike .....
> 
> Maybe they have a new Marketing Director...












Once it stops snowing and blowing 40mph, I hope to get a ride in this week.


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## Arnoud

But this is a Canyon and not aan SL6 Disc 


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## WRM4865

dcorn said:


>


no offense but that is just a Venge Vias Disc clone... I made the mistake and assumed that you were talking about the Canyon Ultimate Disc when you talking about being pissed that the Tarmac disc wasn't available.

nevertheless it's a nice bike enjoy.


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## tony_mm

WRM4865 said:


> no offense but that is just a Venge Vias Disc clone... I made the mistake and assumed that you were talking about the Canyon Ultimate Disc when you talking about being pissed that the Tarmac disc wasn't available.
> 
> nevertheless it's a nice bike enjoy.


When was the introduction of the Venge and of the Aeroad?


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## WRM4865

tony_mm said:


> When was the introduction of the Venge and of the Aeroad?


2015 and 2014 respectively

your point?


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## taodemon

WRM4865 said:


> 2015 and 2014 respectively
> 
> your point?


Probably has something to do with it being hard for the Aeroroad to be a clone of the Vias when it was out before the Vias.


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## WRM4865

taodemon said:


> Probably has something to do with it being hard for the Aeroroad to be a clone of the Vias when it was out before the Vias.


Perhaps 

However when was the first Venge model introduced?

Before or after the Canyon Aeroroad?

Nevertheless this thread is about the SW Tarmac Disc not aerobikes.


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## taodemon

WRM4865 said:


> Perhaps
> 
> However when was the first Venge model introduced?
> 
> Before or after the Canyon Aeroroad?
> 
> Nevertheless this thread is about the SW Tarmac Disc not aerobikes.


Both the first Aeroroad and original Venge came out around 2011 I believe (first model year for venge was 2012 I believe), and at least visually were very different. The Aeroroad already had the dropped seat stays back then. 

With the new SW tarmac being as aero as the old venge comparing "aerobikes" isn't that unreasonable.


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## dcorn

WRM4865 said:


> I'd like to see what you got


You asked, I answered. Only reason I posted a picture. 

Like I said, I reeeeeeally wanted this new Tarmac disc, but I've already been without a road bike for 8 months. I wasn't waiting until at least summer with zero info in sight on what the actual release date would be.


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## Arnoud

Do you know that moment when you see multiple new posts on this forum and you think..... is there news..... and than it's about a C..... 


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## dcorn

Arnoud said:


> Do you know that moment when you see multiple new posts on this forum and you think..... is there news..... and than it's about a C.....


Check out the thread on Weight Weenies. Much more information and pictures there.


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## tony_mm

And if you want one run to your LBS and pre order one!


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## Arnoud

I am in "continuous" contact with the shop (Concept store). Nothing to pre-order, since there is still nothing to order... checked the WW as well of course


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## cpark

That’s one hot looking Canyon!
How does it ride?


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## g-Bike

must be soon as it is getting ridden in the US...


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## TP_Mantis

Anyone know if the March release will include a women's version?


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## taodemon

TP_Mantis said:


> Anyone know if the March release will include a women's version?


Are you sure there is going to be a March release? I was at my bike shop on Friday and they still didn't have any of the disk models in the system to be ordered.


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## cpark

g-Bike said:


> must be soon as it is getting ridden in the US...
> 
> View attachment 321920


That's a nice looking bike!


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## Feddesman

Release is march 14th


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## TricrossRich

Definitely a March release date... in fact, I'd say the release is imminent. Strictly Bicycles posted this on their instagram over the weekend... the have the bike.

https://www.instagram.com/p/Bf5_bV_nsnG/?taken-by=nelsonstrictly


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## Arnoud

That's a red BIKE.... 









I prefer the project black seen on weightweenies at the start of P-N.


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## timgray70

Feddesman said:


> Release is march 14th


Yup ...


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## Steenerk

Feddesman said:


> Release is march 14th


Is that just S Works or will other levels be released as well?

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## Arnoud

Apparently only an S-works version at this moment.


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## Arnoud

A little birdy confirmed me:

14th is the day
Limited availability for now, more in summer
Colors: red version and black version in complete bikes with the powermeter (4iiii cooperation)
UL frame
Bora and QS frame
Difference in weight around 350grams compared to rim brake version

For now the advice is: to keep cool and wait till it is Wednesday......




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## TricrossRich

I can confirm the existence fo the Tarmac disc.... tonight, I saw one with my own eyes. It was awesome.


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## Steenerk

TricrossRich said:


> I can confirm the existence fo the Tarmac disc.... tonight, I saw one with my own eyes. It was awesome.


S Works or other variants? I'm assuming S Works since today is what everyone is saying is going to be the only ones for awhile

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## combfilter

Can someone confirm from their specialized rep? I too have been told that what is coming out here in march is only the s-works disc model. The other lower models (pro,expert, or whatever the call the non sworks ui2 models) will not be coming out till the end of the year. Lame if true.


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## TricrossRich

combfilter said:


> Can someone confirm from their specialized rep? I too have been told that what is coming out here in march is only the s-works disc model. The other lower models (pro,expert, or whatever the call the non sworks ui2 models) will not be coming out till the end of the year. Lame if true.


That is quite literally the method of operation for every bike they've released in the last few years. I see no difference they'd release the Tarmac disc in a different time frame.


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## g-Bike

Yep, S-works first for SL6 then the rest to follow.... If you are in need of a Tarmac Disc Non S-Works they still offer an SL5 Disc....


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## Dry Side

*https://cyclingtips.com/2018/03/specialized-s-works-tarmac-sl6-disc-review/*

*Specialized S-Works Tarmac SL6 Disc review - BikeRadar*

*https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7sYIDXog7Lo*

*https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9wHq1fF2onM*

*Specialized Tarmac Disc launched + S-Works Power Cranks power meters | road.cc*


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## ceugene

https://youtu.be/nSmcbAj1udY


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## dcorn

I don't remember a single instance where they released a new bike and only had the S-works available, then released the pro/expert models a full model year later. It wasn't the case with the SL6 rim brake for sure. Maybe the lower models weren't available as fast, but they were revealed at the same time and in customers' hands only a month or two later.


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## taodemon

dcorn said:


> I don't remember a single instance where they released a new bike and only had the S-works available, then released the pro/expert models a full model year later. It wasn't the case with the SL6 rim brake for sure. Maybe the lower models weren't available as fast, but they were revealed at the same time and in customers' hands only a month or two later.


Not when it is their standard line anyways as both the ViAS and the SL6 released with non sworks models, though for the ViAS the lowest you got was a $8000 pro version and the SL6 is a $4k ultegra equipped expert. Second ViAS year when they went discs there was an expert version available but this was the second year the bike was available so might not count.

Maybe since the disc version isn't the "standard" for the tarmac product line they aren't doing a full release? Seems counter productive though if the goal is to get everyone riding discs.

It is up on the specialized website, only in Sworks, 2 colors for men, 1 for women (women's color being the best imo)


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## TricrossRich

dcorn said:


> I don't remember a single instance where they released a new bike and only had the S-works available, then released the pro/expert models a full model year later. It wasn't the case with the SL6 rim brake for sure. Maybe the lower models weren't available as fast, but they were revealed at the same time and in customers' hands only a month or two later.


That is not true at all... When the ViAS first came out, it was only in a rim brake S-Works model.

Last year, when the SL6 was announced, the Pro wasn't available at the same... the pro and expected models didn't come out until like November.


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## Steenerk

If this is truly the case, I'm done waiting and going to order a Canyon

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## taodemon

TricrossRich said:


> That is not true at all... When the ViAS first came out, it was only in a rim brake S-Works model.
> 
> Last year, when the SL6 was announced, the Pro wasn't available at the same... the pro and expected models didn't come out until like November.


Rich, I'm pretty sure the pro ViAS was available at launch though it was the same carbon layup as the sworks only down grades being no quarq, no di2, CL64 vs CLX64. 

When they put up the rim sl6 on the site the pro was up there too, expert might have come a little later but most reviews at the time listed the pro/expert configs right from the start. 

This not being a the "standard" tarmac might have more to do with the limited release though as I mentioned before seems counter productive to getting more disc bikes out in the wild for those that are into them (I personally fall into the not interested in disc camp).


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## TricrossRich

taodemon said:


> I personally fall into the not interested in disc camp.


It's funny. I'm really torn. There's a piece of me that loves the simplicity of rim brakes on a road bike and the new SL6 with rim brakes looks soooo nice, but I'm also a HUGE fan of the hydraulic disc brakes that I have on my MTB... damn, they just work so well and it is amazing how well they stop the bike in horrible conditions. There's never a doubt in my mind. I can't quite say the same for rim brakes on carbon wheels. I also had a disc brake road bike back in the day... Yup, it's true.. the reason my name on here is "tricross rich" is because I had a disc brake Tricross Elite as my first road bike.... I spent way too much money on that thing.. It's probably the most bling Tricross, you'll ever see.. hahaha.










I think that's part of the reason why I like rim brakes... living with disc brakes on this bike was definitely a little big of a pain in the butt. I swapped wheels for the road and trainer use and I was constantly adjusting and re-adjusting the caliper to get it right, so that it wouldn't rub on the rotor and make noise. On my MTB, smashing around in the woods, you don't hear that kind of stuff at all.... but on a totally silent road, climbing a hill when all you can hear is your heart beat and your breathing.. and the rub of the brakes. It is annoying. Keep in mind, these were cable actuated disc brakes, so they didn't offer the power that hydraulics do and they don't tend to seat back as well as hydraulics do. Now, with 3 seats of carbon wheels, there's also a piece of me that doesn't want to buy new wheels either. If I find a rim brake Tarmac SL6, all of my wheels could slide in and i'd be golden.


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## taodemon

The frames are now up on the specialized website too. Loving that Chameleon blue with Cyan logos. Good thing it is disc only as if it were available in a rim version I might not be able to hold myself back.


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## Wetworks

taodemon said:


> The frames are now up on the specialized website too. Loving that Chameleon blue with Cyan logos. Good thing it is disc only as if it were available in a rim version I might not be able to hold myself back.


Yea, that one caught my eye as well. Unlike you, I am not at all averse to discs, so I may be in trouble later this year, lol.


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## taodemon

Wetworks said:


> Yea, that one caught my eye as well. Unlike you, I am not at all averse to discs, so I may be in trouble later this year, lol.


Well for me if it is a rim brake frame it is just a matter buying a frame and moving stuff over and a lot easier on the wallet than needing new wheels and groupset. In a "switch to disc" scenario, it would mean pretty much a whole new bike and if I'm going to do that I would rather wait to see what they do with the new venge which I assume is unlikely to be rim brake either.


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## g-Bike

Had to go with the Wahoo Blue color bar wrap as that's what I had around for the build. Maiden voyage later today...


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