# Custom Steel Frame Pricing



## bane (Aug 30, 2006)

I've been shopping prices for a custom steel road bike and so far I'm noticing a large gap between Strong's $1500 and Curtlo's $755 (these are both frame only). Am I missing something? Do you know of any builders working within this price frame?

I like what I've seen from Curtlo and he has a decent reputation as well as the impeccable reputation of Strong. I'm just looking for options in the price range.


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## djg (Nov 27, 2001)

Maybe Landshark and DeSalvo?


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## homebrew (Oct 28, 2004)

What type of tubes are they using. Not all steel is the same. Paint can also add a hunk of change on a custom. How the builder markets can add a layer of costs as well. Its hard to compare apples with apples with custom services IMO.


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## terry b (Jan 29, 2004)

I think builders price their products based on two things - what they consider a reasonable price for their work (to compensate their time and their overhead) and what they can reasonably expect the market to bear (what customers are willing to pay based on their reputation.)

I don't think price discrepencies tell you anything about the person or their product. You can only get that by talking to them, looking at their work and listening to what other customers have to say. Three things are important to me on the last point - are they easy to communicate with, do they deliver when they say they will and how do they react when there is a problem with the finished product.

Some builders get 2 or 3 or 4000 for their frames. Doesn't mean their product is 2 to 6 times better than the two you've mentioned.


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## Scooper (Mar 4, 2007)

Paul Sadoff at Rock Lobster in Santa Cruz has a great reputation locally. Custom steel frames are $1100 and matching forks another $200.


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## el-sol (Jan 22, 2004)

*Price range*

If you are looking for builders that charge something between the two prices that you mention you might want to look at Rocklobster or Primus Mootry. Both charge around $1100 for their steel frames (according to their websites) and have very good reputations. Also TiCycles (located in Seattle) build custom steel frames for $1100. I am sure there are more and others can maybe comment on them if this is what you wanted to know.


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## Mayday (Jan 22, 2004)

*suppy and demand*

As mentioned above, it really comes down to supply and demand, with demand being a function of the builder's reputation. Once a builder develops enough of a following that orders start to fill all their available time, their labor becomes more valuable. They can ask more for their work and get it. If you decide to pay the premium price, you're paying in part for the name, but also for the assurances of quality control, customer service, etc. that come with it. 

Other builders who are just starting out, or for whatever other reason have not really made a name for themselves, need to charge less to compete. They might be using the same materials, same processes, same paint, etc. as the premium builders, but at a lower price. Some of these might be risky in terms of consistent quality or whatever, others might be fantastic bargains. If you can identify the guy who is doing great work but is "flying under the radar" and selling frames for half the price of the big names, you could do well.


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## TACSTS (Feb 4, 2004)

Quiring, (quiringcycles.net) is/was $850 for custom steel.


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## cmg (Oct 27, 2004)

Start a list of builders your interested in. Send e-mails for clarification of what they provide for a given price point. After several e-mails/phone calls you'll get a feel for the one that works for you. it won't be about the price by then. Check out Gunnar, Sycip and Waterford, there in your price range with custom options.


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## AlexCad5 (Jan 2, 2005)

cmg said:


> Start a list of builders your interested in. Send e-mails for clarification of what they provide for a given price point. After several e-mails/phone calls you'll get a feel for the one that works for you. it won't be about the price by then. Check out Gunnar, Sycip and Waterford, there in your price range with custom options.


 Gunnar and Waterford are the same house. Gunnar is not custom, Waterford is custom, and more expensive than Strong.
For a couple more in the Strong price point: Kish and Soulcraft. There are not many as inexpensive as Curtlo, and I'm sure his prices have gone up since the 2006 price sheet on his website was posted.


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## Kwantani (Sep 26, 2002)

Marschall from Germany has a very reasonable price range for their stainless steel custom frame offering:
http://marschall-framework.de/english/index.html






bane said:


> I've been shopping prices for a custom steel road bike and so far I'm noticing a large gap between Strong's $1500 and Curtlo's $755 (these are both frame only). Am I missing something? Do you know of any builders working within this price frame?
> 
> I like what I've seen from Curtlo and he has a decent reputation as well as the impeccable reputation of Strong. I'm just looking for options in the price range.


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## Len J (Jan 28, 2004)

terry has got it right...........

with one additional thought.

If someone has been building full time for several years and their prices are still on the low end of custom frames it raises a very large question in my mind about why? Clearly there is a reason why the demand on their frames is so low that they have a low price relative to the market......I would want to understand why, and would not buy from them until I both understand it and accept it.

Len


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## backinthesaddle (Nov 22, 2006)

Coconino is $1500...


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## Bob Ross (Apr 18, 2006)

Len J said:


> If someone has been building full time for several years and their prices are still on the low end of custom frames it raises a very large question in my mind about why? Clearly there is a reason why the demand on their frames is so low that they have a low price relative to the market......I would want to understand why, and would not buy from them until I both understand it and accept it.


Good point.

Several months ago I made a list of all the custom builders who do lugged steel road frames that interested me. For the most part they were all within $1000 of one another...with one or two odd exceptions. At the time I thought little of this.

But upon reading Len J's comment (above) I went back to those builder's websites... and sure enough, they've raised their prices to be commensurate with the rest of the industry!


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## terry b (Jan 29, 2004)

Len J said:


> If someone has been building full time for several years and their prices are still on the low end of custom frames it raises a very large question in my mind about why? Clearly there is a reason why the demand on their frames is so low that they have a low price relative to the market......I would want to understand why, and would not buy from them until I both understand it and accept it.


Yep. 

E.g., you read about Dean and you read about Curlto and even those that are ecstatic with their frames never fail to mention the wait, the lack of communication, the wait and the lack of communication.

Generally it seems to end up okay, but the anxiety associated with that kind of behavior is a big noisy klaxon for me. I learned my lesson here once, the hard, expensive way.

I've heard some stories about frame builders that get a premium and are yet a royal pain to work with. But generally these guys are working the ornate, highly specialized end of the market and so people are more willing to put up with an _artiste_ and their idiosynchrasies.

But in the world of TIG or even simple lugged frames, I think a person's price is going to have a straight line relationship with their bedside manner.


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## Len J (Jan 28, 2004)

terry b said:


> Yep.
> 
> E.g., you read about Dean and you read about Curlto and even those that are ecstatic with their frames never fail to mention the wait, the lack of communication, the wait and the lack of communication.
> 
> ...


Another great question for a builder (assuming they will answer it) is:

"When you have a customer who wants you to do something that you believe will impact the "rideability" of the bike & therefor won't do, who do you tell them to go to?"

I've asked this question a few times and always got the same short list of builders...........I found that to be pretty informative.

len


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## cmg (Oct 27, 2004)

AlexCad5 said:


> Gunnar and Waterford are the same house. Gunnar is not custom, Waterford is custom, and more expensive than Strong.
> For a couple more in the Strong price point: Kish and Soulcraft. There are not many as inexpensive as Curtlo, and I'm sure his prices have gone up since the 2006 price sheet on his website was posted.


from the Gunnar website http://www.gunnarbikes.com/roadie.php "Options:
*Custom geometry version $1075.* S&S Couplers $580 plus case and accessories." plus fork costs $200-375.


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## weiwentg (Feb 3, 2004)

cmg said:


> from the Gunnar website http://www.gunnarbikes.com/roadie.php "Options:
> *Custom geometry version $1075.* S&S Couplers $580 plus case and accessories." plus fork costs $200-375.


good catch. I was under the impression that Gunnar always offered custom geometry, but the upcharge was enough that you might as well get a Waterford. as it is, Waterford's R14 with a True Temper OS2 tubeset (same as the Roadie) costs $1299 for the frame.

I have a stock 52cm Gunnar Sport. Very happy with the bike. Although she's set up as a commuter, she has S&S couplers and can be used as a road bike when traveling.


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