# Need advice on upgrading from downtube shifters



## dizmalmazes (Sep 8, 2013)

I'm new here and fairly new to road cycling. About 6 months to be exact. Some time in march I purchased my first road bike I love it. Trek 1420







This pic is from the day I bought it. Paid $300 for it. I paid more than I was advised to but I don't regret my purchase. Ive added and upgraded several things, but haven't touched any of the components. They are all original. Mostly all Shimano 105.

I was ok with the DT shifters for a while, but recently they've become a bother. My friend and I have been riding a lot more hills, and I find it a pain to shift on them. I want to upgrade to a good set of STI shifters and don't know a lot about compatibility. Ive been looking at ebay quite a bit and seen a lot in the hundred dollar range, but don't know what will be compatible with my older components. My bike is a 3x7 I assume most likely I'll have to change my cassette. Main thing I am looking for is something inexpensive that works well. I have already looked into the Paul Components Thumbies and a set of bar end shifters but for the price I'd prefer to get a set of new bike takeoffs if I can. Any advice on what I should be looking for would be appreciated.


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## wim (Feb 28, 2005)

I would keep the bike 7-speed. When 8-speed came along, the frame spacing for the rear axle was increased from 126 mm (which you have now) to 130 mm. With an aluminum frame, it's generally not a good idea to increase rear axle spacing because aluminum doesn't take to bending well.

If you had a double front, all you'd really need is Shimano's ST-A070 7-speed road shifter set. They are about $100 including cables, but you can find them a little cheaper. But since the left-hand ST-A070 shifter is only a double shifter, you'll have to look around for a triple left-hand shifter, and you'd be stuck with that left-hand ST-A070 shifter.

The other alternatives are to change from a triple to a double, or to look on ebay for a 7-speed STI shifter set with a triple left-hand shifter, or simply not use the smallest chain wheel on your triple. Not sure if you have a cassette or a freewheel, but it doesn't matter as far as the shifter is concerned.

If it were my bike, I would just...no, I'm not going there.


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## Randy99CL (Mar 27, 2013)

8-speed came out over 20 years ago so anything you find used may be worn out.

MicroShift makes 7x3 shift/brake levers. microSHIFT -The best control system

You will have to email Patrick for pricing. Best Derailleur - Online Bike Store for Microshift Groupset Cycling Components

Unfortunately, an 8-speed cassette won't fit your hub.


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## crossracer (Jun 21, 2004)

There are tons of things you can do. Retro shirts are a nice upgrade 
http://www.retroshift.com/
Bill


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## bikerector (Oct 31, 2012)

crossracer said:


> There are tons of things you can do. Retro shirts are a nice upgrade
> Home Page - Retroshift CX
> Bill


I was going to recommend these as well. These seem like a great deal. You should be able to switch them to friction shift too if there's compatibility issues with the indexing but I would think you might be able to bolt the DT shifters right to the unit without the shifters.


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## dizmalmazes (Sep 8, 2013)

Thanks for the advice. I had no idea that the frame spacing was different on the larger cassettes. I didn't necessarily want to change it any way, just most of the STI shifters Ive been seeing are 8 plus.
I haven't heard of micro shift before. Do their shifters hold up and perform well?
I have looked at the retro shifters. They look spiffy, but I don't really like the idea of having my shifter sticking down in front of my brake causing me to have to think more about where I put my hands when I break.
**Wim - I really don't mind any advice (or opinions) you have to give. What would it take to change it from a triple to a double? Can I just take the smallest one off or will I have to change the whole thing out?


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## PlatyPius (Feb 1, 2009)

wim said:


> I would keep the bike 7-speed. When 8-speed came along, the frame spacing for the rear axle was increased from 126 mm (which you have now) to 130 mm. With an aluminum frame, it's generally not a good idea to increase rear axle spacing because aluminum doesn't take to bending well.
> 
> If you had a double front, all you'd really need is Shimano's ST-A070 7-speed road shifter set. They are about $100 including cables, but you can find them a little cheaper. But since the left-hand ST-A070 shifter is only a double shifter, you'll have to look around for a triple left-hand shifter, and you'd be stuck with that left-hand ST-A070 shifter.
> 
> ...


There are triple versions of the Tourney STIs as well....


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## wim (Feb 28, 2005)

dizmalmazes said:


> What would it take to change it from a triple to a double? Can I just take the smallest one off or will I have to change the whole thing out?


Yes, you could just take the smallest ring off or just not use it (block it out with the limit screw) and that usually works just fine.

But before you do that, look at PlatyPius' post above correcting my seriously flawed advice (getting old sucks). There is, in fact, a Shimano triple front/ 7-speed rear STI shifter set and it's called ST-A073. Here's one vendor, but there should be others who also carry them.

You'll need housing stops to go where your down tube shifters are now. They bolt right onto the down tube shifter bosses on your frame.

Shimano ST-A073 7 Speed Brake/Shift Lever Set 7 x 3 - Harris Cyclery bicycle shop - West Newton, Massachusetts


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## PlatyPius (Feb 1, 2009)

wim said:


> Yes, you could just take the smallest ring off or just not use it (block it out with the limit screw) and that usually works just fine.
> 
> But before you do that, look at PlatyPius' post above correcting my seriously flawed advice (getting old sucks). There is, in fact, a Shimano triple front/ 7-speed rear STI shifter set and it's called ST-A073. Here's one vendor, but there should be others who also carry them.
> 
> ...


And for the stops, look at Velo Orange or a shop that uses J&B. The Shimano stops are ungodly expensive, unless your local shop collected them back when bike manufacturers like Cervelo included them with shifters (I did, but I'm out now) Dura Ace stops retail for $60-80. Velo Orange stops are $20. J&B's stops are also $20.


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## dizmalmazes (Sep 8, 2013)

Amazon has Shimano stops for around $13-$15. Thanks for the info on the 3x7 Tourneys. They look like a good possible option. 

I am still curious about the Microshift sb-r073 that *Randy99CL* posted about.
microSHIFT -The best control system
They look a little more user friendly. I haven't been able to find any info on them other than whats on their website though. I also haven't been able to find a retailer for them yet either. Price might make the Tourneys look better as well.


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## PlatyPius (Feb 1, 2009)

dizmalmazes said:


> Amazon has Shimano stops for around $13-$15. Thanks for the info on the 3x7 Tourneys. They look like a good possible option.
> 
> I am still curious about the Microshift sb-r073 that *Randy99CL* posted about.
> microSHIFT -The best control system
> They look a little more user friendly. I haven't been able to find any info on them other than whats on their website though. I also haven't been able to find a retailer for them yet either. Price might make the Tourneys look better as well.


7 speed MicroShift is total crap. Their 10 speed stuff is supposed to be good, but I can say from personal experience that the 7 speed stuff completely and thoroughly sucks. Stick with the Tourney.


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## wim (Feb 28, 2005)

dizmalmazes said:


> They look a little more user friendly.


If you're referring to the bad-mouthing the Shimano thumb button gets, take that with a large grain of salt. The "can't reach the button from the drops" argument only holds water if you ride in the drops most of the time. Most people, and many of the ones hating the thumb bottom, don't ride much in the drops at all, if ever. And there are quite a few people who have absolutely no problem reaching that button from the drops.


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## Randy99CL (Mar 27, 2013)

dizmalmazes said:


> I am still curious about the Microshift sb-r073 that *Randy99CL* posted about.
> microSHIFT -The best control system
> They look a little more user friendly. I haven't been able to find any info on them other than whats on their website though. I also haven't been able to find a retailer for them yet either. Price might make the Tourneys look better as well.


Google MicroShift and search here too.

The new bike I bought in January had Shimano 2303 (lowest level) 8x3 levers that I didn't especially like.
When I signed up here six months ago I was researching replacements and found a long thread on MicroShift that included many reviews; 99% were positive.

I switched my bike to 10x2 with MicroShift Arsis (top level) shift/brake levers and both derailleurs; love them and have absolutely no complaints. I have small hands and really like the separate shift levers and non-swiveling brake lever.
The price I paid was lower than 105 and the quality seems as good as any but I've not used any of the higher levels from the big 3. I'm not expecting them to be as good as levers that cost three+ times as much.

MS has made levers for Nashbar and Performance for years and the reviews have been good. Nashbar still sells their 9 and 10 speed levers for $120 a pair.
In my original post I gave a link to Best Derailleur; Patrick is the US importer. He doesn't list pricing for many of their pieces so you have to email him. He answered my emails quickly.
They ship direct from Taiwan and I and a few others have received the package in exactly a week.

I have no experience with their 7-speed shifters. Platy writes that they had some problems some time ago but I don't know whether they have improved or not.

MS is a tiny company that is trying to break into a market locked up by the big 3. I like that they are "trying harder" and give you more for your money than the others. I support the little guy when I can.


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## SBard1985 (May 13, 2012)

My gf has a specialized allez, same set up as you, 105 7 speed with the down tube shifters. The bike is freaking awesome. I love riding that thing. I wouldn't change a thing, just saying. She also has a Caad10 full ultegra build, so she doesn't always ride the allez.


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## Fai Mao (Nov 3, 2008)

OK I have the flame proof asbestos suit on along with the official membership card for the International Association Retrogrouches out on the desk.

I would not upgrade the bike. Ride it and enjoy it as is and do the maintenance stuff but generally aftermarket upgrades are a waste of money. Enjoy the older bike for what it is and wear its obsolescence like a merit badge. 

First off; if you have a $300.00 old bike and you spend $500.00 on upgrades you have a $350.00 bike so it is a waste of money. 

The money would be better spent making sure the old bike is in good condition. 

1. Have the hubs, headset and bottom bracket overhauled. (A bike that old may not be all sealed bearing) 
2. Get a new chain 
3. Change the cassette or freewheel to optimize the gears you need. 
4. Get some new, zippier tires if you want. 
5. Replace all the cables for brakes and derailleurs. 
6. Replace the brake pads.
7. have the wheels trued up
8. Some new handlebar tape is always fun. 

That should cost a couple of hundred dollars in a bike shop but will make a huge difference in the way the bike feels and will ensure you are on a safe machine.

The problem with upgrading is (trust me on this) no matter what the hype you read says you are not going to make yourself faster by hanging parts on your bike. That is a mythical beast that you simply can't catch. But once you start it is a difficult addiction to shake. This month you'll change to some form of integrated shifters ($300.00). Next month new tires ($75.00) and then new wheels ($450.00). Then you'll suddenly have a need for for a neat saddle ($100.00). After that will come the "I need a carbon fiber fork" epiphany ($250.00) which means changing the headset ($50.00), stem ($50.00) and probably bars ($50.00) as well. Now that you've replaced all that you might as well get a set of dual pivot brakes by Tektro ($90.00) and a new seat post ($50.00) because, "Hey everything else is new and so I might as well". Add a pretty good cycling computer and some bar tape and your initial $300 shifting upgrade becomes at least $1500.00 or more a year later. Please note I am not including any labor or installation in the prices just the sort of the cost of mid range parts I see advertised. The problem is, you still have a 7 speed rear end and old mid range frame. 

Then, just when you think you've arrived at your dream bike you discover (Hopefully not while riding) the aluminum frame has a stress riser (crack) at the weld between the bottom bracket and seat tube and has to be discarded because the frame is now dangerous to ride and you are looking for a frame to hang all your upgraded parts on.

You are better off enjoying what you ride and saving your cash for a new low end to mid range bike by Giant, Specialized, Cannondale or whoever your favorite maker is. Indeed, if you have no favorite then choose a name at random because they are all good. For the money you are going to spend in the next year if you get on the upgrade hamster-wheel you can buy a much better bike than you will ever be able to upgrade to. 

A new bike in a year or so will also be lighter, and have a warranty and you'll won't need to spend money every month upgrading for several years. 

I know nothing about your age or finances but you are really better off financing a new bike and making monthly payments if you can't wait a year rather than getting on the upgrade hamster-wheel. You'll end up spending less and have a better bike. The only market for old bikes is high-end bikes in original condition. Beyond that you are throwing money into a big black hole. Nobody generally wants to spend a lot on a sort of upgraded on Trek

A last reason to wait and just buy a new bike. You might find you don't need one.


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## dizmalmazes (Sep 8, 2013)

Randy99CL said:


> Google MicroShift and search here too.


I assume you were putting a link there is so it didn't work. I will try emailing them about them. See What info I can get. I didn't see the 7x3 listed on their website though.


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## Randy99CL (Mar 27, 2013)

dizmalmazes said:


> I assume you were putting a link there is so it didn't work.


No link, just type MicroShift into google, you'll get their site and catalog. Then use the search function here at RBR.


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## dizmalmazes (Sep 8, 2013)

wim said:


> If you're referring to the bad-mouthing the Shimano thumb button gets, take that with a large grain of salt. The "can't reach the button from the drops" argument only holds water if you ride in the drops most of the time. Most people, and many of the ones hating the thumb bottom, don't ride much in the drops at all, if ever. And there are quite a few people who have absolutely no problem reaching that button from the drops.


I was actually referring to the brake handle shifter. I've read a lot about people not liking them, and I'm not sure how comfortable I will be with them. I guess I'll have to make a trip to my LBS to check some out. I need to get some new tubes for my MTN bike anyway.


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## dizmalmazes (Sep 8, 2013)

Oh ok thanks


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## dizmalmazes (Sep 8, 2013)

I don't really care about how fast I ride or how light my bike is. The only thing I care about is if it is comfortable to ride. I have been fine with the DT shifters in fact I like them, just not on hills. I find it difficult and uncomfortable to shift on them. Also I have thrown my chain a couple times trying to do so on ascents. I have been riding an area with a lot more hills and would like to make it easier and more comfortable to shift while doing so. ALSO there is no way in hell I'm paying ($300) for shifters. I refuse to double the price I've paid for the bike with one component. I don't care about carbon fiber new wheels or any of that crap. And new tires are maintenance unless the bike doesn't NEED them mine did. Also I do all my own repairs and work except wheels. Lastly I don't need a new bike I Love mine. Except the color. I don't think purple is my color...but that's just too bad.


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## Fai Mao (Nov 3, 2008)

Fair enough. But don't say you were not politely warned. 

The $100 shifters will turn into nearly $300 by the time you add the clamps and down tube boss adapters, bar tape and shipping and installation. I really suggest that if you haven't worked on a set of integrated shifters before that you get someone to do it and let you watch them first time.

If you are having a chain drop you have either an adjustment problem or bent/worn out chain rings. That is not the shifters fault. New shifters will not help a bad ring and they won't correct a maladjusted derailleur. So if you replace the shifters and not worn or bent rings you have just stepped onto the upgrade hamster-wheel.


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## Roderick (Sep 10, 2013)

In my original post I gave a link to Best Derailleur; Patrick is the US importer. He doesn't list pricing for many of their pieces so you have to email him.







He answered my emails quickly.if you have no favorite then choose a name at random because they are all good.


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## Randy99CL (Mar 27, 2013)

Roderick said:


> In my original post I gave a link to Best Derailleur; Patrick is the US importer. He doesn't list pricing for many of their pieces so you have to email him.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


When you quote a post, you only work with what is inside the brackets [], then leave a line and add what you want to say.


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## Agent319 (Jul 12, 2012)

By the way, what year is that Trek? Is it before they bought out Klein?


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## Randy99CL (Mar 27, 2013)

I found a video showing how the MicroShift levers work. It shows the short-reach models (for kids and women) but you can see the two shift levers and how well they operate.

http://forums.roadbikereview.com/co...fters-installed-video-demo-inside-306958.html


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## Agent319 (Jul 12, 2012)

dizmalmazes - You have a great bike that is worth an upgrade to the STI shifters and if you want even put up to a 10 spd rear cog. I'm ducking now as the venom and barbs fly for saying that on this forum. But it can be done. I've done it and am riding it. It is a 1992 Cannondale R700 2.8 which was set up for Time Trial racing with a 7 speed rear sprocket http://www.vintagecannondale.com/year/1992/1992.pdf . That same year the R800 had STI shifting while the R600 had downtube shifting. So your bike and my bike had the same basic downtube stops. Those downtube stops could accommodate downtube shifting or STI shifting. For $10 those downtube shifters you have can be converted to downtube stops for your upgrade to STI shifting.

Now to the rear spacing. I don't know your spacing but with a 7 speed rear cog it is most likely a 126mm spacing. Who cares! If you want to put an 8, 9, or 10 speed rear cog on that then do it. I did. That aluminum frame can withstand 2mm per side flex. 2mm per side that is 5/64" which is barely thicker than a nickel. That frame will not crack and fail on you. 

Ok to your Triple front chain ring. Yes you can lock out that small chain ring by limiting the FD. But that 2nd chain ring is what a 44. That's tough climbing hills with that. I'm thinking you could replace that chain ring with a 39 tooth no problem. That is most likely a 130 bcd chain ring which is the most likely used spacing. 

Or for less than $50 replace that triple with a double and be done with it. Remember if you do you'll have to replace the bottom bracket because that BB on there now is longer than a double BB to accommodate the Triple.

So let's say you do all that mentioned above at a cost of $100 for used STI shifters, $25 for a rear 8spd or 9spd cog, if you go 10 speed you'll most likely have to get a different hub, $50 bucks for a double chain ring and BB. So you need to ask yourself, if you do the upgrades you have $450 minimum in the bike, am I ok with that? Or sell the Trek for $200 and take that and buy a fairly newer bike with the mentioned STI shifters and 9 to 10 spd rear on them already for $500 to $600. 

Tough question


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## PlatyPius (Feb 1, 2009)

Randy99CL said:


> I found a video showing how the MicroShift levers work. It shows the short-reach models (for kids and women) but you can see the two shift levers and how <strike>well</strike> they operate.
> 
> http://forums.roadbikereview.com/co...fters-installed-video-demo-inside-306958.html


Fixed for accuracy.

The shift lever throw on the 7 speed shifters is so long that you'd better have mutant fingers. They are truly awful. They have to be awful... I'm recommending Shimano shifters, and I hate Shimano.


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## dizmalmazes (Sep 8, 2013)

I have no idea. I was told the model was at least a 98. I tried looking it up on bikepedia to put a link in my original post, but the info on what i think was my bike was surprisingly sparse.


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## wim (Feb 28, 2005)

wim said:


> If it were my bike, I would just...no, I'm not going there.


Well, after following this thread and seeing how much agonized thinking is being done on this conversion, I have reconsidered my "not going there" self-quoted above. The entire sentence should read: "If it were my bike, I would just ride it as is."


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## Agent319 (Jul 12, 2012)

Per this website BikePedia, QuickBike Complete Bike Specs I could not find a 1420 after year 1993. But it could be older because the site doesn't go back further than 1993.


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## Randy99CL (Mar 27, 2013)

PlatyPius said:


> Fixed for accuracy.
> The shift lever throw on the 7 speed shifters is so long that you'd better have mutant fingers. They are truly awful. They have to be awful... I'm recommending Shimano shifters, and I hate Shimano.


Not being argumentative, but they do work well in the video; they shift fast and accurately. Those levers cost $100.

A couple of old reviews I saw complained of the long lever travel. The 2012 catalog I saved says that the stroke was shortened by 10 degrees (16mm) but I don't know if that was done to all of their shifters.
I have the Shimano 2303 and 2013 Arsis shifters and just compared them. Three clicks with the 2303s is a much longer stroke than three with the MS but that is partially because I'm comparing 8-speed to 10. Wish I had a protractor to actually measure the difference.

I seem to be the forum MS proponent but I'm just sharing the info that I have. Considering the cost, I think they're great. I like the double shift levers better than any other system and they work well with my small hands.
Soon I'll be ordering the 10x3 for the touring build I'm starting; I like consistency between bikes.


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## Randy99CL (Mar 27, 2013)

Agent319 said:


> Now to the rear spacing. I don't know your spacing but with a 7 speed rear cog it is most likely a 126mm spacing. Who cares! If you want to put an 8, 9, or 10 speed rear cog on that then do it. I did. That aluminum frame can withstand 2mm per side flex. 2mm per side that is 5/64" which is barely thicker than a nickel. That frame will not crack and fail on you.


Are you saying that you put an 8, 9 or 10 speed cassette on a 7-speed hub? I don't know how you got it to work; they went to 130mm because the 8-speed cassette is longer than the 7. You have to buy a spacer to use a 7-speed cassette on an 8-speed hub.
8-10 speed cassettes are usually interchangeable, but not 7 or 11.


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## Agent319 (Jul 12, 2012)

Randy99CL said:


> Are you saying that you put an 8, 9 or 10 speed cassette on a 7-speed hub? I don't know how you got it to work; they went to 130mm because the 8-speed cassette is longer than the 7. You have to buy a spacer to use a 7-speed cassette on an 8-speed hub.
> 8-10 speed cassettes are usually interchangeable, but not 7 or 11.


After reading my post it does suggest that puting an 8, 9 or 10 speed cassette on there is plausible but per Sheldon Brown it could accept an 8 or even a 9 but not a 10. That frame had 700c x 19mm rims so me, myself and I would suggest 700c x 13mm rim and 8, 9 or 10 speed rear cog on it.


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## wim (Feb 28, 2005)

Agent319 said:


> That frame had 700c x 19mm rims so me, myself and I would suggest 700c x 13mm rim and 8, 9 or 10 speed rear cog on it.


Don't forget a matching 700 x 13 front wheel. Can't have different rims front and rear, bad for handling. And what about the crappy outdated square-taper three-piece crank? The bike screams for an external-bearing Hollowtech III two-piece crank with Ti-spindle Speedplays.


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