# Tiso Full Ceramic Jockey/Pulley Wheels?



## wtchoe (Nov 12, 2011)

Anyone have experience with these things? Just learned about them from the recent Friction Facts report.
I try to avoid riding in dirty conditions as much as possible, but it seems these wheels will outlast several sets of Campy SR jockey wheels and outperform them along the way.
Also wondering how loud they are and how much they affect shifting performance.
Thanks!


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## cxwrench (Nov 9, 2004)

wtchoe said:


> Anyone have experience with these things? Just learned about them from the recent Friction Facts report.
> I try to avoid riding in dirty conditions as much as possible, but it seems these wheels will outlast several sets of Campy SR jockey wheels and outperform them along the way.
> Also wondering how loud they are and how much they affect shifting performance.
> Thanks!


$200.00 on eBay all day long...are you out of your mind? there is no way they'll improve shifting in any way. i promise you they'll be noisier. 

oh, you can get them in colors. totally worth it.


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## looigi (Nov 24, 2010)

It's kind of interesting what Lennard Zinn on Velo News had to say about running these on his cross bike. Open ball bearings with no seals and no lube spin true and freely after a year of use in dirt and mud. Evidently, the supper hard balls and races just smash anything that gets into them into fine powder without suffering wear themselves.


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## Newnan3 (Jul 8, 2011)

If you really need ceramic pulley wheels there are some cheaper options over on fairwheel bikes.


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## Kerry Irons (Feb 25, 2002)

wtchoe said:


> it seems these wheels will outlast several sets of Campy SR jockey wheels and outperform them along the way.
> Also wondering how loud they are and how much they affect shifting performance.


Given that I have regularly gotten 50,000 and more miles from Campy pulleys it "seems" you have bought the marketing hype hook, line, and sinker. As to their effect on shifting performance that would be zero. Don't believe the hype.


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## tihsepa (Nov 27, 2008)

Out perform? Its a jockey wheel. Unless its siezed its not doing anything except going along for the ride. 

I say you get a set. :thumbsup:


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## wtchoe (Nov 12, 2011)

So where's the love for a brother trying to rationalize some bike bling?
You guys are no help at all....

But seriously --
That Zinn/Friction Facts article was what started me thinking.
That and the somewhat mediocre performance from the Campy SR pulleys.
And why is Zinn using these anyway? I guess it makes some sense on a cross bike.
Would still appreciate the input of someone with real world experience with these things.


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## Jay Strongbow (May 8, 2010)

OP, I saw on another thread where you mentioned you get 75-100 miles out of a lube job before your chain makes noise. And here I see you avoid dirty conditions (which presumably includes rain) so that's a problem and it ain't the quality of your jockey wheels unless they are really old and just shot.

Possibilities:

-Your lube technique might be really bad.
-You might need a new cassette, chain and or chain rings.
-It could have something to do with the jockey wheels but not their quailty (again, unless they are just really old and shot). Take them off and clean an insure they spin okay. Look at the teeth if they are really pointy they are done.
-You might just need an adjustment.
-Might need to clean and lube, or replace, cables and housings (for shifting quality, not noise). Check for junk at friction points.
-You could have a bent derailleur hanger.
-For shimano you could have the chain on backwards or be using an incompatible chain (9 speed chain for 10 speed drive train for example). I don't know if either of these is possible for campy though.

Some impossibilities:
-You need higher end jockey wheels.


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## Ventruck (Mar 9, 2009)

Just go buy the pulleys. Obviously everyone is so wrong in using sheer logic and basic engineering principles to draw the conclusion there's nothing to gain. I mean, we all know how next to useless those SR pulleys are. Losing all those watts, all those stop light races. Can't let Mr. Pinarello and Mr. Litespeed beat you. Show them all.

You can't defy the awesome VeloNews. Zinn milking rolling resistance and lube for his recent articles. That very positive Mavic carbon clincher review coming right after an article discussing how bad carbon clinchers are. Only they know what's-what, and they know you should buy those pulleys to save your life.


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## wtchoe (Nov 12, 2011)

Jay Strongbow said:


> Possibilities:
> -Your lube technique might be really bad.
> -You might need a new cassette, chain and or chain rings.
> -It could have something to do with the jockey wheels but not their quailty (again, unless they are just really old and shot). Take them off and clean an insure they spin okay. Look at the teeth if they are really pointy they are done.
> ...


Appreciate the input Jay.
I do all my own wrenching and the bike has been OBSESSIVELY tweaked and optimized. My lube technique is fine thanks. The bike already has a pretty new cassette and the chainrings look quite new. The chain is brand new and nondirectional. The RD shifts beautifully -- can't imagine it shifting any better. The hanger is solid 6/4 titanium -- can't imagine that it's bent, but the shifting quality is a nonfactor anyway. Cables are clean.
The lower jockey wheel is getting worn though (teeth getting pointy), so I am starting to think about a replacement. I want to replace/service it as infrequently as possible. Hence I'm looking at metal wheels instead of the usual delrin.
I've already put about $8500 into the bike, so $200 for jockey wheels isn't a factor.


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## wtchoe (Nov 12, 2011)

Ventruck, who pissed in your Cheerios this morning?
Jeez. Take it easy man. It's just a hobby, not brain surgery.

Addendum -- Well, a hobby for probably >85% of the people who frequent this forum.


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## wtchoe (Nov 12, 2011)

Thanks!


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## velodog (Sep 26, 2007)

Tiso makes titanium ceramic jockey wheels too. 
They're $229.99 so they're probably better. 
The problem is that they're heavier than the ceramic ones.

It's a tough call.


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## tihsepa (Nov 27, 2008)

velodog said:


> Tiso makes titanium ceramic jockey wheels too.
> They're $229.99 so they're probably better.
> The problem is that they're heavier than the ceramic ones.
> 
> It's a tough call.


When you already have 8500 into a bike you might as well get both.


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## cxwrench (Nov 9, 2004)

wtchoe said:


> Ventruck, who pissed in your Cheerios this morning?
> Jeez. Take it easy man. It's just a hobby, not brain surgery.


you're the one that asked about $200.00 pulleys on a public forum. you have to take the responses you get.


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## steelbikerider (Feb 7, 2005)

Why not get the friction facts report mentioned in the VN article and find out which pulleys perform best?
I know they have done chains and lubes recently and maybe other components for friction losses. Add them all up and you may talking 10 watts or so. That could make a difference.


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## Ventruck (Mar 9, 2009)

wtchoe said:


> Ventruck, who pissed in your Cheerios this morning?
> Jeez. Take it easy man. It's just a hobby, not brain surgery.


Mundus vult decipi, ergo decipiatur


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## velodog (Sep 26, 2007)

steelbikerider said:


> Why not get the friction facts report mentioned in the VN article and find out which pulleys perform best?
> I know they have done chains and lubes recently and maybe other components for friction losses. Add them all up and you may talking 10 watts or so. That could make a difference.


A difference in what?


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## tihsepa (Nov 27, 2008)

velodog said:


> A difference in what?


Wallet thickness?

Grey matter density? 

I dunno.


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## NolesOrNothing (Aug 19, 2011)

If your in the market for a metal alternative, take a look at Hawk Racing's offering. Much better priced at $60.


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## wtchoe (Nov 12, 2011)

Thanks. I considered the Hawks too. They also did well on the Friction Facts report and look great too. Reviews are favorable. I agree that the Hawks are a much better bargain than the Tiso aluminums, but the Tiso 6/4 titanium is a fair bit harder than 7k aluminum and may wear longer. May make a difference with the gritty road grime we get here in NYC.
Anyway, since no one seems to have real world experience with these things, I'm playing the guinea pig and purchased the Tiso titaniums on fleabay. I'll post an update after I've used them for a while. I'll be particularly interested if they adversely affect drivetrain noise and shifting performance.


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## wtchoe (Nov 12, 2011)

tihsepa said:


> Wallet thickness?
> 
> Grey matter density?
> 
> I dunno.


Definitely wallet thickness.
Grey matter is going by itself anyway.


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## Jay Strongbow (May 8, 2010)

velodog said:


> Tiso makes titanium ceramic jockey wheels too.
> They're $229.99 so they're probably better.
> *The problem is that they're heavier than the ceramic ones.*
> 
> It's a tough call.


But they are more aerodynamic. I'd probably use the $229.99 jockey wheels for time trials only and switch out to the lighter $200.00 ones for climbing.


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## velodog (Sep 26, 2007)

Jay Strongbow said:


> But they are more aerodynamic. I'd probably use the $229.99 jockey wheels for time trials only and switch out to the lighter $200.00 ones for climbing.


Now this is a good idea.


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## velodog (Sep 26, 2007)

NolesOrNothing said:


> If your in the market for a metal alternative, take a look at Hawk Racing's offering. Much better priced at $60.


At only $60 I doubt that they're as good as the Tiso jockey wheels.


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## Cinelli 82220 (Dec 2, 2010)

wtchoe said:


> I'll be particularly interested in the drivetrain noise and shifting performance.


I've never noticed any noise from my stock pulleys, has anyone else?

Note that index shifting systems have jockey wheel float designed into their system. It needs to move in and out a bit to align with the cog in use.


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## Newnan3 (Jul 8, 2011)

Jay Strongbow said:


> But they are more aerodynamic. I'd probably use the $229.99 jockey wheels for time trials only and switch out to the lighter $200.00 ones for climbing.


For climbing i use a plastic B-screw and take out my lower limit screw in my RD. Just like the world's lightest bike....

Worlds Lightest Bike, Revisited - Fair Wheel Bikes


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## wtchoe (Nov 12, 2011)

Ventruck said:


> Mundus vult decipi, ergo decipiatur


Taciturnitas stulto homini pro sapientia est.


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## velodog (Sep 26, 2007)

wtchoe said:


> Taciturnitas stulto homini pro sapientia est.




Habet argentum in knucklehead cremetis


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## wtchoe (Nov 12, 2011)

Newnan3 said:


> For climbing i use a plastic B-screw and take out my lower limit screw in my RD. Just like the world's lightest bike....
> 
> Worlds Lightest Bike, Revisited - Fair Wheel Bikes


Not funny Newnan3.
Somewhere a newbie just jammed their RD into their spokes.

Addendum -- Holy crap -- they actually DID that. Thought you were being facetious.


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## ziscwg (Apr 19, 2010)

Buy them and post a pic. I want to see.


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## wtchoe (Nov 12, 2011)

View attachment 281237
View attachment 281238

I just came back from a 20mi night ride around Central Park and the Tiso jockey wheels performed pretty well.
My relatively new chain was freshly cleaned and lubed so that wasn't a factor.
The shifting remains absolutely flawless, so no concerns there. Maybe even a little faster with the stiffer upper jockey wheel (bearings instead of bushings).
They are indeed a little louder at the extremes of the cassette, but dead silent in the middle. Rather hard to notice in the light wind tonight and not bothersome or intrusive.

Everything ran SMOOOOOTH, but I strongly suspect that's more from the clean chain than anything.

And of course here is the obligatory spin video:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rno07wNr-Fg

At a first glance, I would say these are an interesting and fun addition. Can't say it's an upgrade just yet -- need to get some more miles in and see how they do with a dirtier chain.


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## looigi (Nov 24, 2010)

wtchoe said:


> ...I just came back from a 20mi night ride around Central Park and the Tiso jockey wheels performed pretty well.


Are these the ones with no bearing shields and no lube, like the ones described by Lennard Zinn in Velo?


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## wtchoe (Nov 12, 2011)

Yes they are.


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## Newnan3 (Jul 8, 2011)

wtchoe said:


> Not funny Newnan3.
> Somewhere a newbie just jammed their RD into their spokes.
> 
> Addendum -- Holy crap -- they actually DID that. Thought you were being facetious.


If a newb removed their lower limit screw to save a gram i think they deserve to have their RD jammed into their spokes. Lol

Btw, i have the 2013 Lynskey 340. Do you have a picture of your entire bike?


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## mikerp (Jul 24, 2011)

I like them, the fact you have them on a Lynskey R340 and Campy makes them even better in my book. They won't provide an earth shattering experience or break the sound barrier, but they look great.


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## wtchoe (Nov 12, 2011)

Newnan3 said:


> If a newb removed their lower limit screw to save a gram i think they deserve to have their RD jammed into their spokes. Lol
> 
> Btw, i have the 2013 Lynskey 340. Do you have a picture of your entire bike?


Sweet!!! How are you liking yours? I've been very happy with mine, although it could use just a smidge more stiffness in the BB. Really my only complaint. You really can't beat that Ti ride.
And here's that pic. I try to keep it clean.
View attachment 281348


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## wtchoe (Nov 12, 2011)

mikerp said:


> I like them, the fact you have them on a Lynskey R340 and Campy makes them even better in my book. They won't provide an earth shattering experience or break the sound barrier, but they look great.


Thanks!


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## Newnan3 (Jul 8, 2011)

Oh I love mine! Im a lighter rider so mine doesnt seem any less stiff than my previous carbon bike. If anything it feels stiffer yet smoother. I read that they may have changed the design from the 2012 to the 2013 but Im not sure. 

I started a picture thread in the "Other Builders" section if you'd like to post a pic with the rest of they lynskey owners...


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