# rear racks on a carbon frame



## overtheedge

I ride a WSD Trek Madone 5.1. I love the bike and get a very smooth ride. However, I 'm gettting ready to do a 4 day ride (staying in motels) but willl need to carry some items (rain gear, change of clothes,evening wear, off bike foot ware, bike snack) with me. A rear rack with an nice sized bag (800 cubic space or so) is all I need. What's the thought about putting a rear wheel rack and bag on a carbon frame. My LBS says they can attach a rack to the bike using a bolt system. It would be attached to the bike frame, not the seat post. I've considered buying a second bike... but I'm having trouble finding a WSD aluminum bike with Ultregra or better parts that can match the ride of my Madone.


----------



## Dave Hickey

Given your requirements, I'd go with a combination front handlebar bag and large rear saddle bag..No racks needed

Check Rivendell... 

http://www.rivbike.com/products/list/bags_and_racks


----------



## overtheedge

i've considered that option, but because of my short statue, I have very little seat post and clearance over the wheels. A rear bag would be riding on my tire.


----------



## FatTireFred

overtheedge said:


> i've considered that option, but because of my short statue, I have very little seat post and clearance over the wheels. A rear bag would be riding on my tire.




how fast/far? 800ci ain't much, a backpack, msger or waist bag could work if you can tolerate it. for the rack install, do you trust your lbs? not sure p-clips on carbon is a great idea. iirc they also make rack mounts that attach to rear wheel qrs and seatpost/seatpost binder/rear brake mount


----------



## rcnute

I'd get a bar bag (e.g., REI with a Kick-Flix release) and a seatpost rack with a rack-top bag or small panniers.


----------



## FatTireFred

rcnute said:


> I'd get a ... seatpost rack with a rack-top bag or small panniers.




unless the sp is carbon


----------



## shades9323

FatTireFred said:


> unless the sp is carbon



A new aluminum seat post is a lot cheaper than a new aluminum roadbike!


----------



## asterisk

I passed a guy on a Calfee a couple weeks ago pulling a trailer, probably safer than mounting a rack to the seat stays.


----------



## PaulRivers

Maybe this is what your local bike shop is talking about, but (I believe) this is the only rack my local bike shop said could be installed on a full carbon fiber bike:
http://www.eriksbikeshop.com/ride/p...J_Tj00fg&scid=SearchResults&spoffset=2&s_id=0

It mounts on the parts of your cabon frame that already have to be designed to hold weight - the bottom goes on through your quick release wheel skewer (or I'm sure the non-quick release version to). The top mounts on under where your rear brake is attached to the frame.

The disadvantage is that it's a pain to get off, because to take the rack off you'd have to remove then reinstall rear brake off the frame. 'course I haven't tried it myself - maybe it's not that hard.


----------



## FatTireFred

shades9323 said:


> A new aluminum seat post is a lot cheaper than a new aluminum roadbike!




well of course, but you didn't warn him re: carbon... plus, do they even make alu posts for madone 5.1s? they are not round you know


----------



## rcnute

FatTireFred said:


> unless the sp is carbon


True dat. I forget people still use them.


----------



## Dave Hickey

ding ding ding...we might have a winner....it just might work


----------



## overtheedge

Thanks all,

The Madone has a one piece seat post which is not round. I think I'll take the plunge and put the rear rack on a carbon bike....I've taken a look at the rack that was referenced. Maybe they make a rack also for a side bag on front or back. I might even consider buying a new carbon bike and decking it out with racks for future light over night trips. Taking racks off and putting back on does not sound like fun....and for most/ many of my rides I don't want racks I'm not yet wanting to consider a heavier touring bike and loaded touring. Sounds like too much work. I'm sold on carbon....but only if it works to carry a little weight on it to accomodate overnight trips( using hotels or hostels).


----------



## PaulRivers

overtheedge said:


> Thanks all,
> 
> The Madone has a one piece seat post which is not round. I think I'll take the plunge and put the rear rack on a carbon bike....I've taken a look at the rack that was referenced. Maybe they make a rack also for a side bag on front or back. I might even consider buying a new carbon bike and decking it out with racks for future light over night trips. Taking racks off and putting back on does not sound like fun....and for most/ many of my rides I don't want racks I'm not yet wanting to consider a heavier touring bike and loaded touring. Sounds like too much work. I'm sold on carbon....but only if it works to carry a little weight on it to accommodate overnight trips( using hotels or hostels).


If you're talking about the rack I mentioned:
http://www.eriksbikeshop.com/ride/pr...ffset=2&s_id=0

Glad I could help! 

I should add that when I asked how much work it was to take the rack on and off, I was asking in comparison to taking it on and off on a daily basis. Like "rack compared to backpack" or "rack compared to seatpost rack". But it looked like it would be "easy" to get on and off compared to outfitting an entire bike for overnight trips, panniers, packing etc. I know the bottom mount would be relatively easy - just take out the quick release skewer. It didn't look like taking it off from the brake mount would really be that hard, either. More time consuming than "10 seconds", but if the other option was buying an entire second bike I bet with a little practice you could get the whole rack on and off in like 3 minutes. I would have guessed, based on eyeballing it, that taking the rack on and off (with the right wrenches and tools) would be less work than changing a back tire that went flat.

I don't really "know" as I don't have the rack, but I'd sure try it out before buying an entire second bike!


----------



## Pscyclepath

Rear racks in combination with a carbon seat post and carbon seat stays are usually some bad juju. Backpack or messenger bags are probably the best way to go with a carbon bike.


----------



## PaulRivers

Pscyclepath said:


> Rear racks in combination with a carbon seat post and carbon seat stays are usually some bad juju. Backpack or messenger bags are probably the best way to go with a carbon bike.


There's nothing inherent about carbon bikes that makes them unsuitable for racks, fenders, etc. I think it's just that carbon is expensive, so you usually see it on higher end racing bikes, and racing bikes don't get the frame mounts for all that "non racing" stuff (sadly, for the most part). I mean hey, that braze-on might add 5 or 10 grams! 

If you want to see proof, take a look at Specialized's top-end Tricross bike:
http://www.specialized.com/bc/SBCBkModel.jsp?spid=32735

If you click on the "Features" tab, you see it says the frame is "S-Works FACT 10m carbon frame, Az1 construction, semi-compact Tricross design, Zertz inserts, *rack and fender fittings*"


----------



## overtheedge

Ok....so there is a carbon bike out there already equipped for racks! Now do me a favor and see if you can find a WSD carbon bike equipped for such. I'm still leaning toward using the carbon bike and adding racks. I have not been successful in finding an aluminum or aluminum carbon combo bike that gives a ride any where even close to my Madone. Have not yet decided if the comfy ride is due to the carbon frame or the better components on the bike than I had on past bikes. Since I'm not much of a mechanic, I may talk myself into a second carbon bike to use more as a commuter bike for errends and the occasional over night trips, leaving the racks intact. Just have to have the debate with myself as to weather that would be money well spent.


----------



## H.Bicycletus

*why only WSD frame?*

What is it about WSD frames that you're set on? Seems you can get close to the same effective geometry with some mods to stem length and stack height, no? If you can get comfortable on 'standard' (non-WSD) frames that opens up a better range of options.


----------



## PaulRivers

overtheedge said:


> ...Now do me a favor and see if you can find a WSD carbon bike equipped for such. I'm still leaning toward using the carbon bike and adding racks. I have not been successful in finding an aluminum or aluminum carbon combo bike that gives a ride any where even close to my Madone...


What does WSD mean?


----------



## asterisk

PaulRivers said:


> What does WSD mean?


WSD = Women's Specific Design... coined by Trek.


----------



## overtheedge

I'm short statued (barely 5 ft) and also rather light on the scale. I've always shopped for Women's Specific Designs....but you have a point about more options opening up in the mens line. I may take a peak while at the Specialized dealer this weekend. He's steering me toward a Ruby Expert at 2750.00 (2008 left over). Now if he'd only offer to buy it for me!


----------



## doogie

Until recently I rode an Aegis Aro 700 (carbon frame) with a rack setup similar to the one PaulRivers posted, with the rack attached behind the rear brake. It was a great setup, but just be warned that the frame ended up with small cracks around the brake, almost certainly due to the weight on the rack.

A few caveats: the frame was at least 10 years old, probably more (I bought it used in 2000); it lasted 5 years after I mounted the rack that way; I used it as my daily commuter, regularly carrying at least 10 pounds on the rack, for something like 3 years. If you're planning on using a rack only when you're doing some touring, I'd wager you'd be totally fine, but you might shy away from leaving the rack on and making it your daily commuter.

Best of luck.


----------



## PaulRivers

doogie said:


> Until recently I rode an Aegis Aro 700 (carbon frame) with a rack setup similar to the one PaulRivers posted, with the rack attached behind the rear brake. It was a great setup, but just be warned that the frame ended up with small cracks around the brake, almost certainly due to the weight on the rack.
> 
> A few caveats: the frame was at least 10 years old, probably more (I bought it used in 2000); it lasted 5 years after I mounted the rack that way; I used it as my daily commuter, regularly carrying at least 10 pounds on the rack, for something like 3 years. If you're planning on using a rack only when you're doing some touring, I'd wager you'd be totally fine, but you might shy away from leaving the rack on and making it your daily commuter.
> 
> Best of luck.



I'm not saying that's not a scary story, but a 10 year old carbon frame - was that like one of the original carbon frames? As they make mountain bikes out of carbon fiber now, I would wonder if they've made significant advances in carbon frame construction (to be fair, I'm not sure how old the Trek Madone frame is...).


----------



## doogie

I think the first generation of carbon frames were carbon tubes with cromoly lugs connecting them, mine isn't that old, but it might be 2nd generation frame, probably a 3rd generation frame. I don't doubt that there have been advances in carbon frame construction since this frame was made, but because I just went through the experience I thought it made sense to share.

By the way, if I were in your shoes I wouldn't hesitate to throw the rack on the bike and use it for a week-long trip. I don't think a week a year is going to do any damage. I would probably decide against doing the same thing 5 days a week, though.


----------



## overtheedge

My Madone is a 2008 Model with OCLV white carbon, which is Treks value oriented (cheaper) carbon. The Specialized bike which I am considering purchasing is an 8r carbon frame, which means nothing to me except that the less expensive bikes are 7r. It's probably their intermediate carbon. What is unclear in my thinking is if the size of the bike (48 cm) means the carbon is less strong than say a bigger bike...or is the strength of the carbon not related to the size of the frame. Total weight that i would be putting on the bike is my weight (100lbs if I put a few stones in my jersey pockets) plus maybe 30 lbs max in a bag. Most of the aluminum or alloy bikes that I would consider buying are priced around 1500 so for another 1000 I get the carbon frame and the upgraded parts. So I believe my decision is again leaning toward riding a carbon bike with racks. My fall out plan/short term solution) is to ride the 300 miles with a camelbak with 800 cu of storage space.


----------



## PaulRivers

overtheedge said:


> My Madone is a 2008 Model with OCLV white carbon, which is Treks value oriented (cheaper) carbon. The Specialized bike which I am considering purchasing is an 8r carbon frame, which means nothing to me except that the less expensive bikes are 7r. It's probably their intermediate carbon. What is unclear in my thinking is if the size of the bike (48 cm) means the carbon is less strong than say a bigger bike...or is the strength of the carbon not related to the size of the frame. Total weight that i would be putting on the bike is my weight (100lbs if I put a few stones in my jersey pockets) plus maybe 30 lbs max in a bag. Most of the aluminum or alloy bikes that I would consider buying are priced around 1500 so for another 1000 I get the carbon frame and the upgraded parts. So I believe my decision is again leaning toward riding a carbon bike with racks. My fall out plan/short term solution) is to ride the 300 miles with a camelbak with 800 cu of storage space.


Just fyi, I don't think a higher rating for the carbon means it's stronger at all. A higher rated carbon on a specialized bike means that as you go up in ratings it's stiffer, more vertically compliant (has a better ride) and lighter. Which of these attributes is emphasized depends on the bike model. I don't think there's a strength difference.


----------



## Roubaix_2009

*Seat Post Rack on Carbon Frame*

I was considering similar issue on specialized 2009 Roubaix Expert...

Fortunately, my seat post is round and i've been told i can get a metal post and attach rack to that.

Concerning the #r, it's not tied to size of bike, but model of bike.

For a given model, all sizes will have same #r....

Example i purchaed 2009 Roubaix Expert SL Triple....
9r is available in all sizes from 48cm to 61cm & i believe 64cm...

Good luck on whatever you decide...


----------

