# Campy Over torque cranks...



## mannymerc (Nov 19, 2013)

Hello, I recently got campagnolo's over torque crank to install on a spare frame I had laying in the garage, Im having trouble identifying the correct bottom bracket for it, the frame is bb86, so if one of you guys now what would be the correct bottom bracket for this application please point me in the right direction, thanks...


----------



## primov8 (Dec 16, 2012)

Here you go, the BB386 option:

Campagnolo Over Torque OS Fit Cups, Bottom Brackets, BOTTOM BRACKETS


----------



## Mr. Scary (Dec 7, 2005)

primov8 said:


> Here you go, the BB386 option:
> 
> Campagnolo Over Torque OS Fit Cups, Bottom Brackets, BOTTOM BRACKETS



BB386 bb listed in the link has a 46mm od and a bb86 frame has a 41mm id I believe, so it most likely won't work. For a BB86 frame you didn't need the Overtorque crankset. Ultratorque with the Campy bb86 adaptor would have worked.


----------



## bikerjulio (Jan 19, 2010)

Mr. Scary said:


> BB386 bb listed in the link has a 46mm od and a bb86 frame has a 41mm id I believe, so it most likely won't work. For a BB86 frame you didn't need the Overtorque crankset. Ultratorque with the Campy bb86 adaptor would have worked.


If it's really a BB86 frame then I think MR Scary is correct.

Campy make screw-in cups, and press-in cups for PF86, PF30 and BB30, but not BB86.

see also here: Over-Torque™ OS-Fit™ Integrated Cups - Campagnolo - The official Campagnolo web site - Bicycle Parts and Components Cycling


----------



## primov8 (Dec 16, 2012)

Mr. Scary said:


> BB386 bb listed in the link has a 46mm od and a bb86 frame has a 41mm id I believe, so it most likely won't work. For a BB86 frame you didn't need the Overtorque crankset. Ultratorque with the Campy bb86 adaptor would have worked.


Thanks for pointing that out; I missed that one. 

It seems the OP is going to either revert to an ultra torque crankset or wait until Campagnolo or another manufacturer such as Wheels Mfg, C-Bear, etc. releases bb cups compatible with over torque and bb86.


----------



## mannymerc (Nov 19, 2013)

well yeah, I didnt necessarily need the over torque, but I got it because is light and stronger according to campys website


----------



## mannymerc (Nov 19, 2013)

primov8 said:


> Thanks for pointing that out; I missed that one.
> 
> It seems the OP is going to either revert to an ultra torque crankset or wait until Campagnolo or another manufacturer such as Wheels Mfg, C-Bear, etc. releases bb cups compatible with over torque and bb86.



this is for a spare frame I had, I also have campagnolo record UT crank on my focus with bb30, I guess i can use the over torque crank ok the focus and the ultra torque on the bb86, they do make a bb for the bb30 or pf30.


----------



## primov8 (Dec 16, 2012)

mannymerc said:


> well yeah, I didnt necessarily need the over torque, but I got it because is light and stronger according to campys website


+1. 
When I heard that Campagnolo was releasing a 30mm spindled crankset(s), I already knew what were next for my bikes. Even better when I saw that they had a longer spindle, which would fit a majority of different bb shells with the right compatible bb cups.

I was fine with my Rotor 3D+/Praxis & FSA 386EVO/Praxis setup for both bikes but I'm looking forward to replacing them with the Comp Ultra and Comp One cranksets I ordered from Ribble.


----------



## headloss (Mar 3, 2013)

primov8 said:


> It seems the OP is going to either revert to an ultra torque crankset or wait until Campagnolo or another manufacturer such as Wheels Mfg, C-Bear, etc. releases bb cups compatible with over torque and bb86.


I don't think it is physically possible. Press in style cups would make the shell too wide for any current production crankset. Integrated cups would have to have a 41mm outer shell and a 30mm inner shell which doesn't leave enough room for both the bearings and the walls of the cups. BB86 will only support a 24mm spindle.


----------



## mannymerc (Nov 19, 2013)

I wonder if enduro makes something that would work in this case...


----------



## primov8 (Dec 16, 2012)

headloss said:


> I don't think it is physically possible...


FSA has their bb86-386EVO bottom bracket. It's pressed in just like any other bb86 bb but made to work with 386EVO cranksets which all have 30mm spindles. I'm sure it'd work with other non-native bb30 cranksets such as Rotor 3D+/F, Force 22 bb30, THM, Lightning, etc. 
Even Lightning cranks and Rotor has bb86 compatible cups to work with their 30mm spindled crankset.




mannymerc said:


> I wonder if enduro makes something that would work in this case...


Only time will tell. Campagnolo won't be releasing Over-Torque BSA compatible bb cups until late 2014/early 2015 and they haven't specified anything related to bb86.


----------



## Mr. Scary (Dec 7, 2005)

mannymerc said:


> I wonder if enduro makes something that would work in this case...


The Enduro 386 to bb86 conversion kit does not work with FSA cranks. I know this firsthand (as I tried a FSA 386 crank with the conversion kit in my bb86 cross frame). A Rotor crank will work, their 30mm spindle cranks are about 2mm longer than FSA's 386 spindle width. I don't know the spindle width on the Overtorque crankset.


----------



## headloss (Mar 3, 2013)

primov8 said:


> FSA has their bb86-386EVO bottom bracket. It's pressed in just like any other bb86 bb but made to work with 386EVO cranksets which all have 30mm spindles. I'm sure it'd work with other non-native bb30 cranksets such as Rotor 3D+/F, Force 22 bb30, THM, Lightning, etc.
> Even Lightning cranks and Rotor has bb86 compatible cups to work with their 30mm spindled crankset.


Fair enough, so it *can* be done. I wonder if there is a compromise on the bearing size?


----------



## mannymerc (Nov 19, 2013)

according to the measurements the spindle wont be long enough for the bb386 bottom bracket.


----------



## primov8 (Dec 16, 2012)

mannymerc said:


> according to the measurements the spindle wont be long enough for the bb386 bottom bracket.


The new Over Torque cranksets have a long enough spindle to fit from BSA to BB386. Campagnolo already has the BB386 cups available. The only difference between BB386 and BB86 is that BB86 cups are pressed into bb shell where the diameter is 42mm whereas BB386 cups get pressed into a 46mm shell.


----------



## mannymerc (Nov 19, 2013)

primov8 said:


> The new Over Torque cranksets have a long enough spindle to fit from BSA to BB386. Campagnolo already has the BB386 cups available. The only difference between BB386 and BB86 is that BB86 cups are pressed into bb shell where the diameter is 42mm whereas BB386 cups get pressed into a 46mm shell.


So you are saying that it would work???


----------



## bikerjulio (Jan 19, 2010)

mannymerc said:


> So you are saying that it would work???


Sadly, I think not. That is if you have a BB86 41mm diameter BB shell. With BB86 the bearings press directly into the frame and are sized for a 24mm axle. There is physically not enough space to fit bearings for a 30mm axle. I found this PDF which helps explain the differences.









http://problemsolversbike.com/files/tech/Bottom_Bracket_Standards_Reference.pdf


----------



## headloss (Mar 3, 2013)

mannymerc said:


> So you are saying that it would work???


No, he's saying it's possible that a proper cup could be made... none currently exist.

BB86 was designed for use with a 24mm spindle (diameter) such as ultra-torque or power-torque; that is what you should use.


I suspect that any working adapter would be a compromise, as smaller bearings would likely have to be used in order to fit the shell and spindle dimensions. I don't know for certain without taking apart similar BB86 to BB386 adapters, so I could be wrong. IF a smaller bearing size is needed, that will result in faster wear and tear (the reason that outboard cups became the norm, in the first place, once we moved past square-taper... effectively, a step backwards). Most likely, ultra-torque will give the best performance and durability, even if a BB86-Overtorque cup is manufactured (and likely the reason that Campagnolo doesn't produce one). But again, that's conjecture on my part.

Consider that a square-taper bottom bracket uses a 1/4" loose bearing ball 6.35mm. The standard bearing cartridge size for a 24mm spindle is 37x25x7mm which is probably made up of 1/4" balls. Internet sources are telling me that the UT uses a 37x25x6mm cartridge, so maybe a 7/32" ball (same as Campy front hubs)? That's about 5.5mm. Now consider the link that bikerjulio posted: BB86 outer is 41mm and you need an inner of 30mm for the oversized spindle... 11mm. If Campy is using a 7/32" ball, that's 5.5mm+5.5mm on either side of the spindle, for a total of 11mm. 11mm won't fit, however, because that's just the thickness of a pair of 7/32" bearings before you factor in the wall size of any adapter cups, cartridge bearing shell, etc. If they are using a 7/32" ball in their cups to begin with, they would be forced to use a smaller bearing ball for a BB86 compatible over-torque. If they are using a smaller ball in their cartridge (3/16"), then it is possible (11mm-9.5mm=1.5mm to spare for the cartridge shell).


----------



## primov8 (Dec 16, 2012)

mannymerc said:


> So you are saying that it would work???


With the right bb86 cups to fit a 30mm spindle, it should bolt right on. I know for sure Rotor, Lightning, THM has BB86 cups that work with their 30mm crankset. Since the design of the new OT cranksets are similar to other"universal 30mm cranksets", I don't see why it wouldn't work with any other bottom bracket that accommodates a 30mm spindle. 

If anything, give Fairwheel Bikes a call because I remember reading something over on the weightweenie forums about them fitting the new OT crankset on several different bb applications.


----------



## headloss (Mar 3, 2013)

primov8 said:


> With the right bb86 cups to fit a 30mm spindle, it should bolt right on. I know for sure Lightning, THM has BB86 cups that work with their 30mm crankset. Since the design of the new OT cranksets are similar to "universal 30mm cranksets", I don't see why it wouldn't work with any other bottom bracket that accommodates a 30mm spindle.
> 
> If anything, give Fairwheel Bikes a call because I remember reading something over on the weightweenie forums about them fitting the new OT crankset on several different bb applications.


Do over-torque cranks have a bearing pressed onto the spindle or pressed into the frame? If they press into the frame, then you're probably right that the other cups will work.


----------



## primov8 (Dec 16, 2012)

headloss said:


> Do over-torque cranks have a bearing pressed onto the spindle or pressed into the frame? If they press into the frame, then you're probably right that the other cups will work.


The bearings/cups are pressed into the frame. 

I'm hoping I have time this weekend to finally install the OT cranksets on both bikes. I have a Wheels Mfg-AC Enduro PF30 bb on the Ridley, AC Enduro bb30 bearings on the De Rosa and I plan on keeping them with the OT cranksets.


----------



## bikerjulio (Jan 19, 2010)

It would be a very tight fit. 30mm crank into BB86 shell that is.

A Campy UT bearing is 6mm "thick". Or to put it another way, 25mm ID and 37mm OD.

The bearing shell and inner race are each 1.7mm, leaving only 3mm or so for the balls.

So, as we have said in trying to fit a 30mm spindle into a 41mm shell, we are left with space for a bearing thickness of 5.5mm. So, it would have to be 0.5mm "thinner" than a Campy UT race. 

So, I went to ask Mr Google and guess what? Found a nice source of bearing info:

Bearings

Searching for a 41mm OD turns up a blank.

I found 30x42 but not 30x41.


----------

