# Having trouble deciding on a $1000 wheelset



## Jank (Jun 14, 2007)

Rider Weight: 160-165lb 5'6
Funds: ~1000 or under...
Bike: BMC Streetfire Aluminum/SRAM Rival Currently with Mavic Askium Wheels

Here are my options as I see it....

Fulcrum Racing 1 1485g
Mavic	Ksyrium SL	1500g
Reynolds	Attack	1498g
Easton	EA90 SLX	1398g
Campagnolo	Shamal	1425g
American Classic?
Rol?

1) How would I rank these in turns of durability since I will be riding this on city streets sometimes?
2) Also how do they rank in terms of aerodynamics....
3) Weight seems not to be a major factor since they are all really similar...?
4) What's my best value here?
5) Is there something else I should consider?

Thank you so much for your help....


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## fazzman (Mar 12, 2008)

You should consider the williams 38 carbon clinchers. For 1000 bucks they cant be beat. Excellent build quality, fit and finish, and overall performance. I weigh 175 and the wheels have been flawless, even on the crappy roads. They spin up fast and the hubs are super smooth. Also the brake track is great, nice smooth braking with no pulsing what so ever. Best bank for the buck wheelset handsdown. Plus there customer service is top notch. Not just a big box company, you speak with the owner directly when you call.


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## Zen Cyclery (Mar 10, 2009)

Mavic Ksyrium SL- High weight for the price and terrible aerodynamics.
Fulcrum Racing 1- Has radial lacing on the NDS rear which will not transfer power as efficiently as a 2 or 3x lacing. 
Reynolds Attack-Out of all the wheelsets you have chosen, I think that this would be one of the smarter options. All though it comes stock from Reynolds with radial NDS, if you were to have it built custom that wouldn't be a problem to fix. But doesn't 1500 grams seem just to heavy for carbon? 
Easton EA90 SLX- All though this is the lightest out of the bunch, it is by no means the stiffest. One of the techs here at the LBS has had to have is rear tension checked twice now due to a spongy feel. Now, this is a case study, but still should be taken into account. 
Campagnolo Shamal-Can you imagine breaking a spoke on this sucker? Guaranteed that it will not be able to help you limp home. That funky spoke pattern may look cool on the back, but it won't transfer power as efficiently and those big bulky spokes aren't the most aero. 
You could always choose another option. It would be easy to get into the 1220 grams range with something like a Stans 340 Alpha rim, White Industries hubs via Cxray spokes. If you wanted to go a bit more durable, you could always swap the Alpha with the XR270 (and save a few bucks) while adding a slight amount of weight. Just a thought though.


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## cdhbrad (Feb 18, 2003)

Agreed, $1K will buy a REALLY nice set of handbuilts with alloy rims, custom made for the OP. That would be my choice.


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## Jank (Jun 14, 2007)

I don't know much about custom wheel building which is why I steered away from it....

How come all prebuilt wheels are unrecommended compared to custom it seems...I would have thought custom would have meant less value over a mass produced wheel.


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## thehook (Mar 14, 2006)

Would you consider a set of Williams system 19 or 30? Half the price. Roll very fast. Very light. Check out there website for the testrider reviews on them. And top shelf customer service.


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## erj549 (Jul 26, 2008)

How about the Dura-Ace tubeless? I'd probably take a long look at those if I was buying new wheels. Don't get Ksyriums. After having them, I'm really not sure why they're so popular. Also, as others have said, look at doing a handmade wheelset. For the same price as a lot of the others on your list, you can have something geared specifically toward what you need that will probably give you more bang for the buck. 

OR, I will sell you my old Ksyriums for $1000 and then we can both have new wheelsets!


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## Hank Stamper (Sep 9, 2009)

Jank said:


> I don't know much about custom wheel building which is why I steered away from it....
> 
> How come all prebuilt wheels are unrecommended compared to custom it seems...I would have thought custom would have meant less value over a mass produced wheel.


Nope. Being able to make something cheaper/more efficient has nothing to do with what the market will bare for price.

Anyway, you should probably say what you're looking to do with the wheels. For example if you're training and commuting only you won't really benefit from caring about aerodynamics so the ksyriums might be good because they are tough. The difference between good and horrible aerodynamics is pretty small, small enough to be a non factor all together in all but close race situations.

I'm sure the regulars here could recommend some great custom options but in order to get truely "custom" recommendations you'd need to mention your riding style and objectives.

For factory wheels you might want to look at Dura Ace c24. They are generally over $1000 though but sometimes not with the UK web sites.


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## twigseattle (Sep 10, 2009)

The best wheels for you will be a personal decision based on:
1. riding terrain. You said some city streets, but are we also talking about mostly flat, rolling hills, big hills with fast descents, etc. Also, where you live is there little wind, or are you on a coastline with tons of gusts?
2. riding duration/intention. Are you riding 20 miles casually each day for exercise, or commuting 6 miles for work, or racing in Cat 5 crits, or riding centuries every month.
3. experience. You must find a local bike store and demo some wheels to at least know what you want a tiny little bit. HAve you ever tried to ride a deep profile carbon rim? 

What do you want? IS it more speed, faster coasting, faster roll-up, lighter for the hills?

What rubber do you have now and what psi?

I would recommend in this order:
1. upgrade your current tires and tubes ifyou want more comfort, or road feel
2. don't think a bout spending more than $400-500 on wheels. Just because you can, doesn't mean you should. 
3. this is the worst time to wheel shop, you just missed everything at 50% off being blown out from last year. If I were you I would spend a season learning about wheels (first hand preferably), and then buy around JAnuary-Feb, Competitive Cyclist and Realcyclist (bonktown) have most things in the 40-50% off range then.


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## kneejerk (Feb 2, 2007)

Shimano RS80!


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## cdhbrad (Feb 18, 2003)

I bought my first set of "handbuilt" or "custom" wheels 3 years ago and haven't even considered a "factory" wheel since then. I really like being able to choose the components and, very importantly, know that should I break a spoke or bend a rim, I can easily replace either. I only use wheels with J bend spokes and rims easy to source. If I break a spioke, which hasn't happened in over 3 years, I can replace it myself and not have to take it to an "authorized dealer" and wait for a special spoke to come from France, Japan, whereever. A lot to be said for that.


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## Jank (Jun 14, 2007)

twigseattle said:


> The best wheels for you will be a personal decision based on:
> 1. riding terrain. You said some city streets, but are we also talking about mostly flat, rolling hills, big hills with fast descents, etc. Also, where you live is there little wind, or are you on a coastline with tons of gusts?
> 2. riding duration/intention. Are you riding 20 miles casually each day for exercise, or commuting 6 miles for work, or racing in Cat 5 crits, or riding centuries every month.
> 3. experience. You must find a local bike store and demo some wheels to at least know what you want a tiny little bit. HAve you ever tried to ride a deep profile carbon rim?
> ...



1. Riding terrain: I'm in upstate NY with wind around 10 to 20mph typically. Not many gusts but sometimes. I ride mostly rolling hills, not too many fast descents.

2. Riding intention: 20 miles per day for exercise with friends. Hoping to not get dropped too much.

3. No experience, only on my existing mavics.

I think if I had a 10 point scale with 10 being wheels being super light but not very aero (climbing) and 1 being wheels being super aero but not very light I would want a 3 or 4 wheel (if that makes sense). So wheels for mostly speed and coasting without sacrificing much of the climbing ability. Again, they should be able to take an accidental pothole or two though too.



I have Conti Gran Prix 4000s now for tires.


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## cmg (Oct 27, 2004)

go custom, stay away from factory wheels. you can get a lighter rim with more spokes that will be more durable, dependable than the sets mentioned. fewer spokes usuaully results in a heavier rim but they look cooler. stan340, Velocity aerohead, Kinlins 200xr, Kinlin 270xr, IRC cadence, are all lighter rims that come in higher spoke counts that will build into a light wheelset.


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## gibson00 (Aug 7, 2006)

I'll be the odd one out.............

If you're main goal is ultimate reliability, then yeah, go 'custom'. Custom can mean Ultegra hubs and Open pro rims (about $300 to build yourself), to much more exotic stuff like Chris King, etc.
IMHO, I like having a handbuilt set as a backup 'do everything' set (rain, crits, etc etc).

BUT.....many people, including myself, think they are boring. Yup. Boring to look at. They don't have the cool sound, they don't feel the same underneath you, you don't feel like you are cutting through the wind. Is it mostly mental? Probably. So what.
I like having a cool looking set of wheels on my bike. I guess that makes me vain.. But I notice a lot of other people are the same way.
Contrary to popular belief, most 'factory' wheels will not spontaneously combust underneath you....

Assuming you want to stay with clinchers... Check out Reynolds Assualts/Attacks and Easton EC90 SL's.
Another good bombproof well proven wheel is the Mavic Cosmic Carbone.
All three of those are very nice riding wheels and can be found pretty close to your price range if you watch ebay, forums, etc.
Cheers


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## Jank (Jun 14, 2007)

"Go custom" isn't really easy for me...now I have to figure out what spoke/hub/rim options are available and what works best together?

Do I go expensive on the hub and cheap on the rim? How much to spend on spokes?

How do I make a custom set look alittle cooler...


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## cmg (Oct 27, 2004)

Go to the Serotta forum look in their classified section someone is selling a set of EC90sl clinchers for your price range. http://forums.serotta.com/showthread.php?t=87605 i have the tubular version, rock solid, with bling and light at the rim..........


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## cdhbrad (Feb 18, 2003)

"Custom" is easier than you think. The builder you choose will, within your budget, go over all those choices with you and let you decide. Several post here all the time: Zen Cyclery, rruff, ergott, valleycyclist immediately come to mind. Personally, I have only done business with Ron Ruff - rfuff, but wouldn't hesitate to use one of the others if I needed more wheels that I didn't think I could build myself. I've started doing my on in the last year as I've learned a lot about wheels from all the information they freely share with us. 

IF your budget allowed for Carbon rims, you could get some serious bling with custom decals, etc., if that's important to you, alloy, not so much, but you get a great set of wheels. Guess the choice is yours. I've started taking the decals of my Zipps, etc. as they get scratches on them, so bling isn't all that importan to me.


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## Jank (Jun 14, 2007)

cmg said:


> Go to the Serotta forum look in their classified section someone is selling a set of EC90sl clinchers for your price range. http://forums.serotta.com/showthread.php?t=87605 i have the tubular version, rock solid, with bling and light at the rim..........


cmg, what would be comparable to this wheelset in a custom wheel?

What rims/hub would you go? 


Chris King/Stans?


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## robdamanii (Feb 13, 2006)

Eh? Double post. See reply below.


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## robdamanii (Feb 13, 2006)

DT Swiss Mon Chasseral? 

I've seen them on sale for about $800, and they are tough as a brick ****house.

http://www.glorycycles.com/dtswrr14monc.html

Where in Upstate NY are you?


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## krisdrum (Oct 29, 2007)

cdhbrad said:


> "Custom" is easier than you think. The builder you choose will, within your budget, go over all those choices with you and let you decide. Several post here all the time: Zen Cyclery, rruff, ergott, valleycyclist immediately come to mind. Personally, I have only done business with Ron Ruff - rfuff, but wouldn't hesitate to use one of the others if I needed more wheels that I didn't think I could build myself. I've started doing my on in the last year as I've learned a lot about wheels from all the information they freely share with us.
> 
> IF your budget allowed for Carbon rims, you could get some serious bling with custom decals, etc., if that's important to you, alloy, not so much, but you get a great set of wheels. Guess the choice is yours. I've started taking the decals of my Zipps, etc. as they get scratches on them, so bling isn't all that importan to me.


This, unless you are trying your hand at building them yourself. Find a respected builder and have a conversation with them. You wouldn't call up a framebuilder and tell them what tubes to use on your bike, would you? Same goes for wheels. Have some conversations, find someone you trust and provides the level of service you are comfortable with, discuss your budget and let them suggest a build and if need be, rationalize it against other potential options.


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## Jank (Jun 14, 2007)

robdamanii said:


> Where in Upstate NY are you?


Crapchester, NY er..... Rochester, NY


Where's the best place to research my options for custom builds? Is the only way to call up a custom builder and be like "what are my options?" or is there a good site out there that will guide me or educate me...


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## cdhbrad (Feb 18, 2003)

Most of the builders I mentioned in the post above have their own sites that are informative as to options. The sites won't deal with all the choices a builder will review with you such as weight, riding style, etc. but they show you what the builder likes to do for other customers.


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## Kneedragon (Jul 27, 2010)

5) Shimano Dura-Ace 7900 C24

< $1000 from ChainReactionCycles.com


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## ClancyO (Mar 20, 2011)

+1 on the Williams 19. If you are hell bent on spending a grand, then pick up the 30's too and save the 1440gram 19's for race day..


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## stevesbike (Jun 3, 2002)

do yourself a favor, spend half of what you budgeted, and get a pair of Shimano RS80 c24 wheels. The rim is the same as their dura-ace wheel, a carbon-alloy laminate that is strong, light, and has excellent feel on the road. They weigh 1500 grams, which is plenty light for an everyday set. The rim technology beats the others mentioned.


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## Kerry Irons (Feb 25, 2002)

*Value proposition*



Jank said:


> How come all prebuilt wheels are unrecommended compared to custom it seems...I would have thought custom would have meant less value over a mass produced wheel.


Factory wheels are generally overpriced for the same performance. MAVIC Ksyriums being the perfect example in that they have poor aerodynamics, nothing special for weight, nothing special for hub quality, and nothing special for lateral stiffness. What they do have is BLING and that sells.

This all started in the 1990s when MAVIC offered rim colors and spoke counts in their wheels that were not available any other way. They could have sold those hubs and rims separately, but instead built them into a wheel and sold it for significantly more than the wheel would have cost if the parts were sold and built by a shop.


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## Jank (Jun 14, 2007)

To summarize, here is the feedback I have so far...

Suggestions
Williams 38 carbon clinchers
2x people say Williams System 19+30
2x people say Shimano RS80
Reynolds Assaults/Attacks
2x People saying Easton EC90 SL's
Mavic Cosmic Carbone
DT Swiss Mon Chasseral
Shimano Dura-Ace 7900 C24

Custom:
2 People suggested, Stans 340 Alpha Rim + White Industry Hubs + Cxray spokes


So here's my thoughts I've gathered as far as options go:

1) Pick up a cheaper prebuilt wheelset such as Williams 19 or Shimano RS80 and save the money for more expensive end of season wheels on sale.

2) Go the Custom route with the Stan's rims

3) Try and find a $1500+ wheelset used online and run the risk of them being bad...


How do we think the Shimano RS80s compare to the Williams 19 vs the Stans custom built wheelset?


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## MrRogers (Feb 23, 2011)

I just bought a pair of Reynolds Strike clinchers that I really like. You should be able to find a pair of the 2010's for under a grand.

MrR


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## twigseattle (Sep 10, 2009)

Eric Gottsman is a wheelbuilder in Islip NY.
http://www.ergottwheels.com/home.html

Part of the wheelbuilding service is that he can help guide you on deciding on the hubs/rim/spoke count.


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## krisdrum (Oct 29, 2007)

twigseattle said:


> Eric Gottsman is a wheelbuilder in Islip NY.
> http://www.ergottwheels.com/home.html
> 
> Part of the wheelbuilding service is that he can help guide you on deciding on the hubs/rim/spoke count.


You do realize Islip is a good 6 hour drive from Rochester, right?


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## Jank (Jun 14, 2007)

krisdrum said:


> You do realize Islip is a good 6 hour drive from Rochester, right?


Yea, I have a friend who has built several wheels up as well. He can build wheels but he isn't well versed in what combinations of spokes work well with what rims or what hubs.

The more I look at this stuff, the more I am thinking I really want something with some more bling factor and custom just doesn't seem to provide it. I am tempted to go with the williams 19 or Shimano and just wait for end of season pricing on carbon wheels...


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## DIRT BOY (Aug 22, 2002)

Jank said:


> Yea, I have a friend who has built several wheels up as well. He can build wheels but he isn't well versed in what combinations of spokes work well with what rims or what hubs.
> 
> The more I look at this stuff, the more I am thinking I really want something with some more bling factor and custom just doesn't seem to provide it. I am tempted to go with the williams 19 or Shimano and just wait for end of season pricing on carbon wheels...


I know and see where your coming form. But what's bling about the Williams 19? You realize with Custom, you can do hub and rims colors, colored nipples and spokes, and custom lacing?

i am similar to your weight, and I you a 20/24 set-up with NO issues. Whats your favorite color? One example would be Red hubs, white spokes and black rims. Maybe red nipples?
have a builder do a custom rear lacing job with 2/1 in rear? What's more bling than that?

Leaving out carbon rims, what's makes the others bling for you? Fro me, bling wheels are Campy/Fulcrum, certain Shimano wheels and tat's about it. Custom wheels can give you any combo you like. Most people associate Bling with low spoke counts. 20/24 is not low enough? With 30mm rims, you would be fine.

You could go full custom and under $1000 easily and get EXACTLY what you want and need for YOU.

You what carbon and quality? Look at TOKEN wheels. I have great success with using and selling these wheels.


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## Jank (Jun 14, 2007)

DIRT BOY said:


> I know and see where your coming form. But what's bling about the Williams 19? You realize with Custom, you can do hub and rims colors, colored nipples and spokes, and custom lacing?
> 
> i am similar to your weight, and I you a 20/24 set-up with NO issues. Whats your favorite color? One example would be Red hubs, white spokes and black rims. Maybe red nipples?
> have a builder do a custom rear lacing job with 2/1 in rear? What's more bling than that?
> ...




Dirt boy, what would you recommend for me then? I am thinking just a black rim, black spokes and possibly red hubs (maybe Chris King? not sure who else sells colored hubs..)

Here is a picture of what my bike sort of looks like.
https://static.productreview.com.au/pr.products/90170_bmc_streetfire_ssx.jpg

Would you go with the Stans rims? Why or why not?


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## erj549 (Jul 26, 2008)

I think these are pretty bling:

Chris King hubs on all black Mavic Open Pros: here

Industry 9 looks pretty sweet as well: here


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## stevesbike (Jun 3, 2002)

The Stans rim is a really bad idea for an everyday, durable wheelset. I personally think you're in a no-man's land in terms of your targeted budget - too low for a good set of carbon wheels and too high for a good value in alloy wheels. By going custom at your pricepoint, you'll end up with a $60 Kinlin rim on a $400 Alchemy or tune hub - nice hubs, but not a good value proposition. If I were you, I'd either stick to around $500 max for an alloy wheelset or look for a carbon set. As an everyday wheelset, something like the Mavic carbone sl is a decent option - you get an alloy braketrack, a 50mm rim depth, and a durable wheel. Not the lightest but sounds suited to the kinds of rides you do. Shimano also makes a 50mm version of the rs80 that you can find for well under $1k on UK sites.


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## Jank (Jun 14, 2007)

erj549 said:


> I think these are pretty bling:
> 
> Chris King hubs on all black Mavic Open Pros: here
> 
> Industry 9 looks pretty sweet as well: here


My friends swear by i9 hubs on their mountain bikes. I haven't heard much about them on road bikes though...how important is quick engagement for a road bike?


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## DIRT BOY (Aug 22, 2002)

Jank said:


> Dirt boy, what would you recommend for me then? I am thinking just a black rim, black spokes and possibly red hubs (maybe Chris King? not sure who else sells colored hubs..)
> 
> Here is a picture of what my bike sort of looks like.
> https://static.productreview.com.au/pr.products/90170_bmc_streetfire_ssx.jpg
> ...


Do you want to run tubeless tires? If not, then don't go Stan's route.

CK, Tune and Alchemy do colors. I also think a few builders here can do WI hubs in colors as well.

I love KinLin rims! Cheap, light and very durable. the 27 or 30mm rims will give you a slight aero benefit and stiff wheels at low spoke counts.

I have 30mm rims laced to DT Swiss 240s hubs, 20h radial front, 24 2x rear and I weight 172lbs and I am hard on wheels. ZERO issues.


Here are the 30mm rims:









27mm:










maybe Tune or Alchemy hubs?



















All the builders mentioned here can do these, along with the boys at Fairwheelbikes.com
If not, we can help.

Look, I love factory wheels to a certain point. But I am in a big city and most good shops have Mavic spokes, rims, Shimano parts and Fulcrum parts in house for repairs.

But unless your DEAD SET on factory wheel, go custom. Why settle for there builds and Colors? You what something over/under built for you? Break and regular spoke and you shop will have some. Most builders will even include a few extra spokes , just in case!

You can have wheels built to your exact needs, wants and requirements with custom. At your budget and without carbon, you can get some SWEET wheels!!!


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## thatdrewguy (Aug 7, 2009)

I found using a site like this gave me a bunch of mix and match options. There's a gallery of wheels that have been built for customers which is pretty cool to see the actual wheels.
http://www.prowheelbuilder.com/


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## DIRT BOY (Aug 22, 2002)

stevesbike said:


> I personally think you're in a no-man's land in terms of your targeted budget - too low for a good set of carbon wheels and too high for a good value in alloy wheels. By going custom at your pricepoint, you'll end up with a $60 Kinlin rim on a $400 Alchemy or tune hub - nice hubs, but not a good value proposition.


Why do you feel that way? What's wrong with KinLin rims? made as good as anything else out there. The hubs is were the value is on wheels. he won't have to get near $1000 to get a nice custom set. For a few bucks more than the $500 set you quoted, he can get nice custom wheels. For $100o or so, you CAN get nice carbon Wheel sets. Not Zipps, but not low quality Chinese stuff either. Again, TOKEN!


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## DIRT BOY (Aug 22, 2002)

On wheels builder.com

Review
FRONT WHEEL SUMMARY

Drillings
20
Rim
IRD NIOBIUM CADENCE AERO BLACK FRONT RIM $66.00
700c/29er
Velox for 1 wheel + $4.00
Hub
CHRIS KING SWIFT / R45 RED FRONT HUB $150.00
QR 100mm
*No Skewer
Spokes
SAPIM CX RAY J BEND BLACK SPOKES $3.10
Lacing Pattern
Radial
Nipples
DT SWISS RED ALLOY 14G 12MM NIPPLE $0.48
Weight
663.24 grams
Price
$291.60
REAR WHEEL SUMMARY

Drillings
24
Rim
IRD NIOBIUM CADENCE AERO BLACK REAR RIM $66.00
700c/29er
Velox for 1 wheel + $4.00
Hub
CHRIS KING SWIFT / R45 RED REAR HUB $350.00
QR 130mm
Shimano/SRAM 8,9 or 10spd
*No Skewer
Spokes
SAPIM CX RAY J BEND BLACK SPOKES $3.10
Lacing Pattern
Two Cross
Nipples
DT SWISS RED ALLOY 14G 12MM NIPPLE $0.48
Weight
791.888 grams
Price
$505.92
*Total Price: $797.52* 
Total Weight: 1,455.13 grams


*You could do better on pricing.* That's a NICE wheelset!!!


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## thatdrewguy (Aug 7, 2009)

DIRT BOY said:


> On wheels builder.com
> ...
> 
> *Total Price: $797.52*
> ...


Dirt Boy, you just spec'd the wheels that I had built, except I went with the WI H2/H3 hubs and silver nipples. Weight calculator puts this set at 1475 grams and mine with rim tape = 1500 grams.


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## stevesbike (Jun 3, 2002)

DIRT BOY said:


> Why do you feel that way? What's wrong with KinLin rims? made as good as anything else out there. The hubs is were the value is on wheels. he won't have to get near $1000 to get a nice custom set. For a few bucks more than the $500 set you quoted, he can get nice custom wheels. For $100o or so, you CAN get nice carbon Wheel sets. Not Zipps, but not low quality Chinese stuff either. Again, TOKEN!


nothing wrong with Kinlin (I have a 300 laced to my powertap). I just meant near his proposed budget (as in an $800 alloy wheelset) most of the cost will be in the hubs, so if he wants to go Kinlin or similar a better value would be to reduce his budget with a less costly hub. For all carbon, I'd point him to 2011 Reynolds wheels - Assaults or Strikes are going for a little over $1k on the UK sites. The updated brake track would be worth a bit extra to me re going all carbon in a clincher.


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## cmg (Oct 27, 2004)

my take, Kinlin 200 xr for the front, if your over 180lbs 28 spokes, cx-rays or revolutions, less if your under 180lbs, white industries hubs if you on a budget, alchemy if your building the dream set and they have better flange spacing, or because i have them laying around, a used American Classic 71 grams front hub, radially laced. try them if you can get them cheap. for the rear, kinlin270xr rim, same thing about the spokes or another 200xr if you want to build as light as possible. WI hubs, decent flange spacing or Alchemy hubs, better spacing, cx-rays, 3x on both sides or revolutions on the non-drive side w/ db14 on DS. they will have absolutely no bling, will not impress anybody. 50gram inner tubes and light sub-200g tires. you will be under your budget and be able to drop those indivduals with more expensive bling ladden wheelsets or maybe not. my goal for a $1000 wheelset is as light as possible rim that will support my weight for as easy a spinup as i can get. the Easton ec90sl rim are pretty close to the AC sprint 350 rim weights. plus i'm a cheap bastard but that's me.


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## cdhbrad (Feb 18, 2003)

Nice wheels, I've been riding a set like that for 3 years and they are great. If you haven't tried WI hubs before, you will really like them.


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## DIRT BOY (Aug 22, 2002)

thatdrewguy said:


> Dirt Boy, you just spec'd the wheels that I had built, except I went with the WI H2/H3 hubs and silver nipples. Weight calculator puts this set at 1475 grams and mine with rim tape = 1500 grams.


NICE! WI are nice hubs. I know lately, many builders are kinda knocking DT Swiss 240S hubs (mainly on pricing for them), but I have zero complaints with mine. Plus they were dirt cheap for me at the time. But they are holding up for close to 3 years now with no issues or stiffness problems.

Mine cam in at 1435g. Plus I have sow nice Hybrid bearings installed years ago. Not worth the money, if I had to pay for them.

DT 240s, Kinlin 30mm, DT Aerolite spokes, 20/24 radial front, 2X Rear.


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## krisdrum (Oct 29, 2007)

My take. Build two sets. Get 24/28 hub set from Bikehubstore.com (a site sponsor) for about $100. Some Kinlin 270xr rims (about $60 each) and double butted 14gauge spokes (about $0.80 each) all around. That is about $300 in parts per set or 2 sets of sub 1500gr wheels for $600. And then the next time you are out and pass some guy on $1500 wheels, you can laugh.


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## SBH1973 (Nov 21, 2002)

If I had a grand to spend on a wheelset, I'd probably order one of Boyd's. I know what hubs he uses, I'm pretty sure what rims he uses, he supervises the builds, and he cares about his product and customers.


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## Dray3573 (Jun 22, 2010)

for $550 you could do a set of SRAM S30 Sprints. They go nicely with a SRAM equipped bike. They seem kinda like a poor man's Zipp 101's. I have a set with Conti 4000s tires and am very happy with the results. You can see the set up on the Felt thread under "she's almost compete". Take the left over $$ and treat yourself to another upgrade somewhere else on the bike.


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## Drew Eckhardt (Nov 11, 2009)

cdhbrad said:


> Agreed, $1K will buy a REALLY nice set of handbuilts with alloy rims, custom made for the OP. That would be my choice.


It'll nearly cover parts on a Powertap Elite+ wireless in back, Powertap front hub, Kinlin XR-270 or XR-300 rims, and DT Revolutions with DT competition spokes on the rear drive side.


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## oxidefilm (Dec 10, 2007)

Bonktown has dura ace tubeless wheels about once a week. For ~600$$. helluva deal fir amazing wheels.


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## slipstream8 (Feb 24, 2011)

oxidefilm said:


> Bonktown has dura ace tubeless wheels about once a week. For ~600$$. helluva deal fir amazing wheels.


You sure about that? I've been keeping an eye out on that site for a few weeks, and the only Dura Ace wheels I've seen were tubular at $1000. They have Mavic K10s for $700, though.


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## T0mi (Mar 2, 2011)

Jank said:


> 2. Riding intention: 20 miles per day for exercise with friends. Hoping to not get dropped too much.


That sums it up. You don't need new wheels for 20 miles a day, the current ones are fine. If you don't do them flat out time trial like, there is no way you can feel tired after a 1hour ride, So spending money on new wheels won't give you any noticable performance advantage.

Or if you just want to spend 1000$ for the bling, you don't need our advice. Just go to your lbs and buy the shiniest ones. All those you mentionned will be fine.


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## foofighter (Dec 19, 2008)

T0mi said:


> Or if you just want to spend 1000$ for the bling, you don't need our advice. Just go to your lbs and buy the shiniest ones. All those you mentionned will be fine.


i think that would be safe to say that over 75% of the members on here rocking cf wheels etc are purchased because of want not out of necessity. And there's nothing wrong w/ that, just stimulating the economy in my eyes


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## T0mi (Mar 2, 2011)

I don't see anything wrong either. But seeking advices in this case is irrelevant, you just buy what the lbs has in stock or the prettiest ones.


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## thehook (Mar 14, 2006)

Foofighter. I would not agree 100% with the whole bling thing. Ok maybe 50%  . I bought my carbon wheels for bling. But after putting them on along with a FSA K-wing carbon bar. My ride was like night and day compared to the Mavic Aksiums and aluminum Bar my bike came with. Not that there is anything wrong with those parts. And oh yeah I do like the bling!  But the ride is sweet. And I came to the realization I'm never going to own a Porsche, Ferrari, or Corvette. So why not just make my bike into my equivalent.

Cheers
James

P.S. love the screen name...Foofighters are big in my IPOD.


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## sdeeer (Aug 12, 2008)

Just another n=1 observation.

I have a set of reynolds strikes (2010) that I got for $1100ish from PBK. I like them but use them to race on only. At my weight (191) I would not like to beat them up everyday nor for the wind out here. But they are really stiff and improved the ride and fly at speed. 

I also have a custom set with a power tap laced to a kinlin 300 with 32 cx-rays and a elf to a kinlin 270 with 24 cx-rays from Zen cyclery that is somewhat bling and stuff. Absolutely no problems. 

I rode a set of shimano rs80's and they did not seem stiff/durable enough to me, but I was 200 then and it was just 2 rides.........

I think williams has a good product at a good value and have heard from others that the breaking is really good for thier carbon.


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## veloci1 (Nov 29, 2005)

Get the Boyd 50 mm and you will never look back.
they are fast, stiff and durable. not to mention right within your budget.

call Boyd and you will see what i am talking about.


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## foofighter (Dec 19, 2008)

thehook said:


> Foofighter. I would not agree 100% with the whole bling thing. Ok maybe 50%  . I bought my carbon wheels for bling. But after putting them on along with a FSA K-wing carbon bar. My ride was like night and day compared to the Mavic Aksiums and aluminum Bar my bike came with. Not that there is anything wrong with those parts. And oh yeah I do like the bling!  But the ride is sweet. And I came to the realization I'm never going to own a Porsche, Ferrari, or Corvette. So why not just make my bike into my equivalent.
> 
> Cheers
> James
> ...


James, not gonna argue that there are some benefits to having the bling  I noticed it the first time I went out on a ride with a set of Easton EC90SL's the buzz was all gone, I havent owned a true 100% CF bar so I dont know what that's like...YET...


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## Jank (Jun 14, 2007)

Ok I think I'm leaning heavy on Custom now thanks to you guys.

I need to figure out the diff between Hubs and what's best for me though, seems like the recommendations are (with rough pricing on front and rear):

Alchemy Orc/Elf - $600
White Industries H2/H3 - $400
DT Swiss 240s - $500
Chris King R45 - $500

1) What's the best value to performance rating? What's 2nd best?
2) What's the easiest to do maintenance on?
3) What rolls the longest.... 

Anything else I should know?

I know nothing about rims.
What's the best between IRD/Kinlin/Velocity/etc.?


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## kneejerk (Feb 2, 2007)

Shimano give you the most bang for your buck, granted the person building them knows how to adjust loose ball bearing hubs. Going with a custom built wheelset will likely cause your wheelset to be a little heavier but will make it easier to replace spokes if they happen to break (which shouldn't happen on boutique wheels from Shimano, Mavic, etc...). I run a 32 hole wheelset mainly because I am a little paranoid of being out on the road and having a failure that wouldn't allow me to fix it on the road and they simply ride a bit smoother and are tortionally stiff up steep climbs. Oh, and they are the bomb on descents (my 32 hole 3 crosses). 

Cheapest way to get a decent 32 hole wheelset (if that is your desire) is to order one from one of the online suppliers that will build them for you. Wheelbuilder.com, wheelwearhouse.com come to mind Velocityusa.com. 

I think going with a boutique Shimano RS80 or similar wheelset is also a good idea, especially if you are a racer and concerned about weight of the wheels. 



 Jank said:


> Ok I think I'm leaning heavy on Custom now thanks to you guys.
> 
> I need to figure out the diff between Hubs and what's best for me though, seems like the recommendations are (with rough pricing on front and rear):
> 
> ...


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## KMan (Feb 3, 2004)

Custom and not ordinary wheels you'd see everyday, plus under $1000
Kinlin XR270 or 300 rims - white
Chris King R45 hubs - color of your choice
Color nipples to match
Sapim CX-Ray spokes 
$950
~1420 grams depending on spoke count....and 40 grams if using the 300 rims

Not quite as bling but less expensive switching to WI hubs (silver, but I think certain builders can get them anodized for you)
$815
~ 1450 grams....add 40 grams if using the 300 rims

If anyone can build these for much less - PM me as I may be looking for a set - damn for reading this thread!

Michael


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## Jank (Jun 14, 2007)

KMan said:


> Custom and not ordinary wheels you'd see everyday, plus under $1000
> Kinlin XR270 or 300 rims - white
> Chris King R45 hubs - color of your choice
> Color nipples to match
> ...


Agreed, someone PM me if they can find me a deal on that Chris King setup...

My friend however did not like Christ King Hubs on his mountain bike because he said they always didn't roll as smooth as his I9s. I am wary of Kings....


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## KMan (Feb 3, 2004)

Jank said:


> Agreed, someone PM me if they can find me a deal on that Chris King setup...
> 
> My friend however did not like Christ King Hubs on his mountain bike because he said they always didn't roll as smooth as his I9s. I am wary of Kings....


I had 2 sets of CK hubs on my MTB several years ago - LOVED them!! Sold all my 26" gear so lost my wheelsets and couldn't afford to build with them anymore


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## cdhbrad (Feb 18, 2003)

Jank: Of the 4 hubs you mentioned, the only one I would not consider for a set of custom wheels are the DT 240s. I have a set of Reynolds 66s built on those and don't think they are as good a hub as the others, just my personal preference. I haven't used Alchemy, but I have 6 wheels built on WI hubs, which have been trouble free for over 3 years now, and have had CK Classics in the past. If I wanted CK hubs, the R45 would be my choice....and they come in just about any color you can imagine. You could even have separate color hubs front and rear, if that was your choice.


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## DIRT BOY (Aug 22, 2002)

Jank said:


> My friend however did not like Christ King Hubs on his mountain bike because he said they always didn't roll as smooth as his I9s. I am wary of Kings....


Maybe its just the seals on the CK being better. CK are about as good as they get. Don't let anyone tell you different. Unless you want/need something lighter.

Now a front hubs might be a different story and you could get away easily with a no-CK hub.


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## DIRT BOY (Aug 22, 2002)

Jank said:


> Agreed, someone PM me if they can find me a deal on that Chris King setup....


CK Hubs on ENVE rims? Sure.  

But only black R45 hubs.


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## mimason (Oct 7, 2006)

DIRT BOY said:


> CK Hubs on ENVE rims? Sure.
> 
> But only black R45 hubs.


Like these?  Love them!


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## KMan (Feb 3, 2004)

mimason said:


> Like these?  Love them!


Yea, Like these are anywhere even in the neighborhood of $1,000


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## mimason (Oct 7, 2006)

KMan said:


> Yea, Like these are anywhere even in the neighborhood of $1,000


You obviously need a lesson in bike economics. All wheelsets are under $1k. You just have to sell other stuff to get the cost down.


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## foofighter (Dec 19, 2008)

mimason said:


> You obviously need a lesson in bike economics. All wheelsets are under $1k. You just have to sell other stuff to get the cost down.



that's the law of th land in my household...sell something to get something


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## Zen Cyclery (Mar 10, 2009)

gibson00 said:


> BUT.....many people, including myself, think they are boring. Yup. Boring to look at. They don't have the cool sound, they don't feel the same underneath you, you don't feel like you are cutting through the wind. Is it mostly mental? Probably. So what.
> I like having a cool looking set of wheels on my bike. I guess that makes me vain.. But I notice a lot of other people are the same way.
> Contrary to popular belief, most 'factory' wheels will not spontaneously combust underneath you....
> 
> ...


I will start off by saying that I completely understand your point. Yes alot of factory wheels to look great. The appeal of walking into a bike shop and having wheels built in front of you is a nice thought if you don't want to have to start the nightmare of finding your own parts. I am the same way with my car. Easy and simple. However, I think that it may be a slight overstatement to say that all custom wheels look boring (especially relative to factory wheels). Yes there are definitely some out there that don't catch the eye but all? Definitely not.


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## Jank (Jun 14, 2007)

cdhbrad said:


> Jank: Of the 4 hubs you mentioned, the only one I would not consider for a set of custom wheels are the DT 240s. I have a set of Reynolds 66s built on those and don't think they are as good a hub as the others, just my personal preference. I haven't used Alchemy, but I have 6 wheels built on WI hubs, which have been trouble free for over 3 years now, and have had CK Classics in the past. If I wanted CK hubs, the R45 would be my choice....and they come in just about any color you can imagine. You could even have separate color hubs front and rear, if that was your choice.


Seems like alot of love for the WI hubs on this forum. Are the Chris King's overpriced and less value for the dollar than the WI hubs?

Has anyone rolled both of them before and seen a difference to justify the 100 bucks?


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## Jank (Jun 14, 2007)

Seems like alot of love for the WI hubs on this forum. Are the Chris King's overpriced and less value for the dollar than the WI hubs?

Has anyone rolled both of them before and seen a difference to justify the 100 bucks?


How does the Chris King + Kinlin XR270 compare performance-wise to the Shimano RS80


Also, what's a "Ceramic upgrade" on wheelbuilder's site?

Why would I pick Kinlin 270s vs 300s? Also, how many spokes is best and why? Again I'm 160lbs.


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## DIRT BOY (Aug 22, 2002)

mimason said:


> Like these?  Love them!


Nice wheels and Bike!


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## DIRT BOY (Aug 22, 2002)

KMan said:


> Yea, Like these are anywhere even in the neighborhood of $1,000


I never said that, now did I? LOL! he just said good pricing on CK wheels.


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## DIRT BOY (Aug 22, 2002)

Jank said:


> Seems like alot of love for the WI hubs on this forum. Are the Chris King's overpriced and less value for the dollar than the WI hubs?
> 
> Has anyone rolled both of them before and seen a difference to justify the 100 bucks?


WI are nice hubs. They cost a bit less than CK, hence why a lot of builders sell them. They are excellent hubs and would build/own some if I wanted too. Some will say CK is overpriced and what not. Other hubs can be bullet better, etc.

But CK are beautiful hubs and might outlast your bike or even you. The new R45 are just zoo nice. I like DT Swiss Hubs as well.


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## cmg (Oct 27, 2004)

How does the Chris King + Kinlin XR270 compare performance-wise to the Shimano RS80? 

the xr270 rim will be lighter, CH hub will be heavier but since it's at the center it won't matter much, but bearings will be better, Shimano only spokes, hope you don't break one. Lower spoke rims will always be heavier to be strong. at 160lbs you could go lower count on front and rear on the xr270.


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## KMan (Feb 3, 2004)

Jank said:


> How does the Chris King + Kinlin XR270 compare performance-wise to the Shimano RS80


I would say apples to oranges - The RS80 is Ultegra level @ 1520 grams (advertised) & $530 vs 1420 grams for the CK XR-270 and $950

Both would do the same intended purpose....vanilla ice cream vs vanilla w/ hot fudge, cherry's whipped cream and bananas....but of course your paying extra for all the goodies 

Michael


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## brucew (Jun 3, 2006)

Jank said:


> Crapchester, NY er..... Rochester, NY


Ha! Me too!

FWIW, I haven't found a wheelbuilder I like and can trust here in town.

Recently I bought new wheels for a new bike build. My requirements were similar to yours, although I'm 10-15 pounds heavier.

I just bought a set of Velocity A23 Pro Build, and kept the change. They were less than I was planning to spend, but I've liked Velocity stuff on my handbuilts, and wanted to see if the benefits of wider rims is for real or just hype.

It's early days, as you can imagine from the weather, but thus far I'm liking them a lot. I'm getting the sense that the wider rim thing is not just hype. (I run Conti GP 4 Seasons.) They roll nice, handle bad pavement well (I was downtown by Midtown, B&L and the library on them today), and they have the same intangible feeling of quality and bulletproofness I associate with good handbuilts. Of course, they _are_ handbuilt, in Velocity's Michigan warehouse.

I got them here for $200 off list price. It was really nice to come in $400 under budget too.

Now, what shall I buy with that leftover money?


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## stevesbike (Jun 3, 2002)

cmg said:


> How does the Chris King + Kinlin XR270 compare performance-wise to the Shimano RS80?
> 
> the xr270 rim will be lighter, CH hub will be heavier but since it's at the center it won't matter much, but bearings will be better, Shimano only spokes, hope you don't break one. Lower spoke rims will always be heavier to be strong. at 160lbs you could go lower count on front and rear on the xr270.


wrong information - the shimano rim weighs 380 grams - its strength comes from its carbon/alloy construction. The Kinlin 270 weighs 445 grams. The RS80 uses the same rim as on the dura-ace 7850 (which weighs under 1400 grams) but uses an ultegra level hub.


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## rockon (Nov 6, 2007)

KMan said:


> Custom and not ordinary wheels you'd see everyday, plus under $1000
> Kinlin XR270 or 300 rims - white
> Chris King R45 hubs - color of your choice
> Color nipples to match
> ...


This builder can build your set for a little bit less http://www.the-clincher.com/index/Price_List.html plus ti skewers included


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## Jank (Jun 14, 2007)

Do u think it's lame to put shimano wheels on a sram componet bike


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## mimason (Oct 7, 2006)

Jank said:


> Do u think it's lame to put shimano wheels on a sram componet bike


Perfectly fine with me. Do it all the time. Why would it not? The only grief you will get is running Campag on an Italian bike from the snobs who don't know that the Italians spec with SRAM/Shimano now.


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## Jank (Jun 14, 2007)

ok I'm leaning on the Shimano wheels even though it will look like crap on a SRAM bike...

Here is the pricing I got from my local bike shop...take 10% off of these prices...

Sapim CX-Ray spokes - $3/each

* Chris King R45 - front $143.65 rear $322.15

* White Industries - H2 front $130 H3 rear $265

Wheelsets

* Shimano WH- RS80 - $650

* Shimano Dura-Ace 7900 C24 - $1100


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## Zen Cyclery (Mar 10, 2009)

Jank said:


> Ok I think I'm leaning heavy on Custom now thanks to you guys.
> 
> I need to figure out the diff between Hubs and what's best for me though, seems like the recommendations are (with rough pricing on front and rear):
> 
> ...


 Great questions Jank. First off, IMO the best value to performance ratio that you will find is in the WI H2/H3 hubset. For $370, you get an extremely durable hubset that is easier to maintain that any other competitor. These really are the "value" hubs in the high end wheel market, and can keep up even with Alchemy in terms of durability. 
Regarding your question about rims, is there a particular depth your looking for? Each company you mentioned has strongpoints so it really does depend on what depth/weight rim your looking for.


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## Jank (Jun 14, 2007)

I'm not sure what u mean by depth. Im 5'6 and160lbs. U tell me what I should do?


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## KMan (Feb 3, 2004)

mimason said:


> You obviously need a lesson in bike economics. All wheelsets are under $1k. You just have to sell other stuff to get the cost down.


I know bike economics all too well. I just bought a 2010 Cervelo S2 with DI2 and Hed Jet wheels.....paid under $1,000 for it 

Michael


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## stevesbike (Jun 3, 2002)

just buy the RS80s - re putting shimano wheels on a sram bike - 1) not a big deal, 2) Shimano brand decals are pretty subtle, 3) when the bike is moving no one will even know what brand they are. You can find them for less than the price you mentioned but with a 10% discount and a local lbs for support, that sounds OK. The rims are the same as the dura-ace - only difference is the hub. In my opinion, not worth the extra money for a 100 gram weight savings.


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## pmf (Feb 23, 2004)

Buy a set of these http://www.neuvationcycling.com/product195.html for $250 and save the rest of your money. Check the reviews on this site. I've got a set, they've been great. 

For pure bling factor, I had a set custom built a few months ago by an outfit that posts here. I was building up a resprayed Eddy Merckx frame and wanted some wheels that were silver as opposed to black/carbon. I got:

Kinlin XR270 Rims: $110, 880 grams
White Industries H2/H3 Hubs (campy): $370, 349 grams
Sapim Cxray Spokes (52 total): $156, 249 grams
Total Price/Weight Quote (including U.S. shipping): $692, 1478 grams

They look totally awesome on the bike built up with a silver Campy Athena group. Ride nice too. 

If you want DT Swiss you can get pre-built DT-240 wheels at Colorado Cyclist for less than the sum of the parts http://www.coloradocyclist.com/product/kit/DTXCCXET


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## mimason (Oct 7, 2006)

KMan said:


> I know bike economics all too well. I just bought a 2010 Cervelo S2 with DI2 and Hed Jet wheels.....paid under $1,000 for it
> 
> Michael


You are the new professor! How'd you do that? Ebay?


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## Jank (Jun 14, 2007)

I am wondering how the Shimano RS80s compare to a Williams 30/19...

And I'm wondering if it's worth going with some minor aero such as 38s as mentioned above. I'll be doing some hills but is it worth sacrificing 100-200 grams for some aero...my thought was going with a set of climbing wheels now and going for more expensive aero wheels later when they are on sale at bonktown at the end of season...


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## Jank (Jun 14, 2007)

Again though thanks for all your help everyone who has responded, I wish I could test these wheels or know someone who has...


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## looigi (Nov 24, 2010)

I'm very happy with my HED Ardennes LT. The C2 23mm wide rims are the tits.

Also happy with a set of Neuvations on my rain bike after its original wheels went tits up after many miles and years.

Rather small difference in performance between the two sets considering the factor of 3x in price.


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## KMan (Feb 3, 2004)

mimason said:


> You are the new professor! How'd you do that? Ebay?


more or less.....bike listed on ebay for $6600 - didn't sell so I contacted the seller directly and offered $4300 and he took it. Sell the Hed wheels that come on the bike for about $1000 (I already have a set of Token 60mm carbon clinchers) and sold my Orbea Orca for $2000 + sold a few other odds and end bike parts I had laying around. So in the end according to "Bike Economics", it'll cost me about $1,000 to change from a 2007 Orbea Orca to a 2010 Cervelo S2 w/ DI2.










Michael


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## Salsa_Lover (Jul 6, 2008)

be warned, this is a forum populated by custom builders trying to influence your decisions their way

nothing wrong with custom wheels, they could be even great. but just beware of the advice and where does it come from. 

There are plenty of good factory options readily avaliable to chose from. with warranty and fast delivery.


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## Salsa_Lover (Jul 6, 2008)

Jank said:


> Do u think it's lame to put shimano wheels on a sram componet bike


no, but I think it would be lame to put sram components on a bike with Dura Ace wheels though


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