# Skyline Drive, Panorama to Big Meadow ...



## Tom Ligon (Jul 1, 2003)

... I have been invited to abuse my legs this weekend on a little outing up Skyline Drive, starting at 211 and going south about 20 miles and back.

My topo map shows about 3800 ft of raggedy up and down going one-way to Big Meadow, starting with about 4 miles of mostly up and about 1000 ft of net altitude gain. I suspect the actual grade is more steady than the topo profile shows (due to a lot of bulldozer work), but I have not been up there for years and don't remember this stretch.

I haven't ridden any mountains for about 5 years. If this initial grade is actually smooth, the average grade is about 5%. I can handle 5% no problem ... for about 120 ft on one local ride. 8x that as a warmup climb is going to be interesting.

Anybody familiar with this stretch? Should I make funeral arrangements?


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## MarkS (Feb 3, 2004)

Tom Ligon said:


> ... I have been invited to abuse my legs this weekend on a little outing up Skyline Drive, starting at 211 and going south about 20 miles and back.
> 
> My topo map shows about 3800 ft of raggedy up and down going one-way to Big Meadow, starting with about 4 miles of mostly up and about 1000 ft of net altitude gain. I suspect the actual grade is more steady than the topo profile shows (due to a lot of bulldozer work), but I have not been up there for years and don't remember this stretch.
> 
> ...


At least you are not starting at Front Royal.

I last did the section between 211 and Big Meadows about two years ago (when I rode the entire Skyline Drive from Front Royal to Waynesboro). Given that I had suffered up the initial climb from Front Royal, I thought that the section you will be doing was easy. My recollection is that 211 is a relatively low point, you climb for a few miles and then there is relatively flat/rolling terrain to Big Meadows. I don't recall any killer grades -- just a lot of sustained climbing.

One caveat: Since I last rode the Skyline Drive, I have ridden the the Pyrenees (2005) and the Alps (two weeks ago). My idea of what is an easy climb may be a bit skewed. But, if someone as weak and slow as I am can climb mountain passes, anyone can. Good luck.


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## Tom Ligon (Jul 1, 2003)

*It is definitely all relative ...*

My wife wants me to take her out to the W&OD on Sunday ... nice recovery spin for me, and she specifically wants FLAT! The 120 ft 5% hill I mentioned is one she considers a freaking mountain.

The max I ever climbed on one hill was 1200 ft at about 8% (Tour de Poway), but I was on the singlespeed cruiser. Some of the guys in that run sprinted up that little bump, and like to climb Mt. Palomar for fun. You would probably enjoy that one. 

Saturday's ride will be on my Paramount, also rigged with one gear. I'm estimating that the total climbing round-trip ought to be about 4000 ft. I've climbed more than that on centuries, but I don't think I've ever done that much in 40 miles. I switched it from 52:16 fixed to 52:18 freewheel yesterday in preparation.


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## MarkS (Feb 3, 2004)

Tom Ligon said:


> I switched it from 52:16 fixed to 52:18 freewheel yesterday in preparation.


I'm a wimp when it comes to gearing -- 39x25 for me on the Skyline Drive. I used a triple in the Pyrenees and the Alps. You definitely are a cycling god when it comes to your choice of gears. Good luck.


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## Tom Ligon (Jul 1, 2003)

We'll know Saturday afternoon if I'm a cycling god or just a darned fool. What I am is a masher, for so many decades that I'm used to it. High cadence knocks the wind out of me fast (I have a 3x7 MTB to test gearing on and I know that granny rings are poison to me). 

But if the grade were a little steeper, I'm got 20 and 22 tooth freewheels in the toolbox. I can substitute one of those for the fixed-gear cog if I want to, as the rear hub is a flip-flop. I can switch gears, but I have to use a wrench to do it.

I gathered some data here a few years back. On the cruiser, 40 fpm is a good sustained rate of climb for me, maybe 50 if I'm riding with a girl and don't want her to see me fall back. Doug Sloan and the rest of the roadracer set seemed to climb about 80 fpm. The top TdF mountain climbers do more like 120 fpm, in other words, they have three times my power to weight ratio. Based on that, I know that when I'm mashing up a hill at 30 rpm, and Armstrong is spinning up a similar hill at his characteristic 90 rpm, he's producing the about same high pedal force I am but at three times the cadence.


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## Tom Ligon (Jul 1, 2003)

*One day maybe I'll learn ...*

... how to make posts show up in the right spot under the message I think I'm replying to!


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## Tom Ligon (Jul 1, 2003)

Well, I survived. 40 miles, about 3800 ft of total climbing, virtually no level areas, probably a couple of short stretches around 10% (especially the last climb to Big Meadow), but the rest of it tolerable. I wimped out and ran 52:20 instead of 52:18, and was glad I did.

A couple of riders noticed it was singlespeed, as they passed me. The guy I was riding with courteously waited for me after every hill. My rate of climb on the first 1000-footer was, based on my average speed, around 30 ft per minute (slow even by my anemic standards).

But, round trip average on the bike was 12.4 mph, and elapsed time was exactly 4 hours, so the pace was just good enough for a 200k brevet. Local brevets climb 5000 ft per 100 miles or a little more. I did not end up rubbery-legged, so I still had something left to give, and have experienced no soreness or other adverse effects other than a health appetite. There's a Populare on August 26 on a brevet course in the same area, and I now know that I have a decent chance of finishing that in the allotted time, and trying a 200k this fall.


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## ChuckUni (Jan 2, 2003)

You should have bombed down the west side of 211 and back up.....that could hurt.

Nice ride though!


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## Tom Ligon (Jul 1, 2003)

I think that comes August 26. They've got a populare/brevet scheduled out of Sperryville, and the route description sounds like it takes 211 thru that gap, over to Luray, and the pop turns around in Edinburg (total of 6 climbs). The brevet goes on to WVa and back (10 climbs).

Sounds like I need to run a route profile on that one, too.


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## ChuckUni (Jan 2, 2003)

Tom Ligon said:


> I think that comes August 26. They've got a populare/brevet scheduled out of Sperryville, and the route description sounds like it takes 211 thru that gap, over to Luray, and the pop turns around in Edinburg (total of 6 climbs). The brevet goes on to WVa and back (10 climbs).
> 
> Sounds like I need to run a route profile on that one, too.



Nice. I have family from Edinburg, so I know the area pretty well. The climb up/over and into Edinburg (if it's the one I think) is decent...steep at the top from both ways. I would assume the brevet would continue on to WV via wolf gap, which is a fun climb too.

The whole area is one of my favorite places to ride. I half want to try from Edinburg to Skyland and back fixed but I think Rt.211 would kill me.


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## Tom Ligon (Jul 1, 2003)

Hmmm ,,, just ran a topo profile on it. Its actually just slightly steeper and a higher climb from the east side. I think I can make it, but it will probably be the highest single grade of my cycling career so far. Or as the brevet bunch would call it, a moderate bump.

Mi	Elev	Ft Dist	Grade
0	700 Sperryville
1	800	5280	1.9
2	950	5280	2.8
3	1100	5280	2.8
4	1400	5280	5.7
5	1720	5280	6.1
6	2100	5280	7.2
6.64	2290	3379.2	5.6 Panorama
7	2173	1900.8	-6.2
8	1858	5280	-6.0
9	1539	5280	-6.0
10	1198	5280	-6.5
11	1055	5280	-2.7
11.7	972	3696	-2.2


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## ChuckUni (Jan 2, 2003)

Tom Ligon said:


> Hmmm ,,, just ran a topo profile on it. Its actually just slightly steeper and a higher climb from the east side. I think I can make it, but it will probably be the highest single grade of my cycling career so far. Or as the brevet bunch would call it, a moderate bump.
> 
> Mi	Elev	Ft Dist	Grade
> 0	700 Sperryville
> ...


Curious....what are you using for the Topo info and grade calculations?

Thanks...


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## Tom Ligon (Jul 1, 2003)

TOPO! 4.0 and Excel.

TOPO! uses 7.5 minute topographic maps, so it gives a little higher resolution than my old package, Delorme Topo USA.(which Doug Sloan turned me on to). One feature of both programs is the ability to produce route profiles, and calculate total climb and total descent. But both tend to make a somewhat exaggerated climb estimate because they assume the natural grade, and don't account for bulldozer work.

The numbers above were produced by taking selected distance and elevation numbers from the route profile for Thornton Gap, importing to Excel, and calculating grade for each interval.


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