# Squeaking BB30



## ARPRINCE (Feb 12, 2011)

So I just cleaned my bike today. After lubing the chains, I noticed that the crank/BB was squeaking. It's the crank/BB for sure because it was making the same noise without the chains.

Is this a bearing issue? It's currently a ceramic bearing but I might just have it replaced with a steel one. 

TIA

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CrMzk1Zn-3Y&feature=youtu.be


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## DCE (Jul 14, 2010)

Have you tried popping the seals, then flushing, and re-greasing the bearings?


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## ARPRINCE (Feb 12, 2011)

DCE said:


> Have you tried popping the seals, then flushing, and re-greasing the bearings?


I don't have the tools to remove the crankarms and/or spindle. I'll bring to my lbs. 

I'm also contemplating on getting the tools for a DIY maintenance but those cannondale specialized tools are quite expensive...KT013 for $50??? KT012 for $40??? <-- i don't think I would be needing this though to replace the bearings.


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## DCE (Jul 14, 2010)

I'm also contemplating on getting the tools for a DIY maintenance but those cannondale specialized tools are quite expensive...KT013 for $50??? KT012 for $40??? <-- i don't think I would be needing this though to replace the bearings.[/QUOTE]

You don't need the KT012, that's for taking the spider off.

You only need the KT013 for the crank arm removal. It only takes a few minutes to get the arms off, it is super easy to do. And you only need to take one arm off to get the spindle out.

Is your BB a PF30 or regular BB30?


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## ARPRINCE (Feb 12, 2011)

DCE said:


> You only need the KT013 for the crank arm removal. It only takes a few minutes to get the arms off, it is super easy to do. And you only need to take one arm off to get the spindle out.
> 
> Is your BB a PF30 or regular BB30?


Sorry I don't know the difference between the two but I did some googling so I reckon it is a regular BB30.


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## DCE (Jul 14, 2010)

What frame do you have?


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## ARPRINCE (Feb 12, 2011)

DCE said:


> What frame do you have?


Synapse Alloy. Anyway, I dropped it off at my LBS and gonna pick it up tomorrow. The guy did say it might just need some grease. We'lll see.


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## drothman (Sep 16, 2013)

ARPRINCE said:


> Synapse Alloy. Anyway, I dropped it off at my LBS and gonna pick it up tomorrow. The guy did say it might just need some grease. We'lll see.


how did it work out for you? I had the same problem on my 2014 synapse 105. I bought the bike 9/13 (noticed the noise immediately, but only road the bike sporadically thru October). When i brought it in to my LBS for a spring 2014 tuneup, the noise was still there and there again when i brought it back a few days later. With no prompting from me, my excellent LBS gave me a replacement Synapse 105 and i've ridden it for the past 10 days and hear the same annoying noise. The tech never noticed the noise, but the manager (a bit heavier) consistently did. I'm a big guy (230+), so my guess (based on 2 samples) is that the rider weight could be a factor here. I'm going to need to bring this bike back next week.


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## jumbojuice (Nov 19, 2013)

have u tried the method detailed below PDF?
http://media.cannondale.com/media/manuals/127894_PressFit_30_Bonding_Instructions_web.pdf

I think it's applicable to BB30 as well.


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## drothman (Sep 16, 2013)

jumbojuice said:


> have u tried the method detailed below PDF?
> http://media.cannondale.com/media/manuals/127894_PressFit_30_Bonding_Instructions_web.pdf
> 
> I think it's applicable to BB30 as well.



The problem showed up immediately with the first bike and same with the second bike. Seems like the problem is omnipresent. Cannondale???


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## macca33 (Oct 24, 2012)

BB30 as a BB system works well, but must be installed correctly and cleaned / re-greased periodically - as required.

Plenty of literature on the internet if you take a look. On a brand new bike, I'd suggest the BB hasn't been installed / greased properly.

cheers


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## Buzzatronic (Mar 18, 2013)

Just had to regrease the BB30 on my 2014 Synapse Carbon 105. After about 1800mi it started making a terrible knocking noise (much worse than a squeak). 

Now it's pretty quiet. Hopefully I don't have to do this too often but it's not terribly difficult now that I know what to expect.


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## Indianajim (Apr 8, 2007)

I'm another one with the knocking noise. Bought a new 2013 Evo Team Edition. I have 500 miles on it. The knocking started periodically, but within the last 3 rides was on every pedal stoke Took it to a local Dale dealer and the cleaned out the bearings and pressed them in. That seemed to do the trick for now. I would have done it myself if I had the stupid specialized tool to remove the crank. Not sure if it will work long term. Didn't have a lot of confidence in the LBS. I new more about the issue than they did. They had not even heard about the Cannondale service paper about using locktight on the BB shell.


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## DCE (Jul 14, 2010)

To me, applying loctite to carbon fiber when the only way to get a pf30 out again is by pounding, just doesn't make sense. I'm always worried that a piece of the carbon from the bottom bracket shell will come out too. I have pounded quite a few out, using the correct tools and never had this problem, but it just seems so crude to do on such a lightweight frame.

Also, since you can't get the pf30 bearing out without destroying them, you must grease the bearings while in the bike, which is difficult and inefficient.

My solution was to go with the Chris King PF30 BB (Press Fit Bottom Brackets | Chris King Precision Components). It goes in without any loctite, plus it is totally serviceable while in the bike. Chris King sells a very cool injector tool that gets the grease into the bearings perfectly.

Another nice thing about the Chris King PF30 is that you don't need to hammer the spindle through the bearings, it slides in with a gentle push.

I use to go through the Sram and FSA PF30 bearing s every 6 months. Now with the Chris King, I can go at year or two and if need be service them in 15 minutes and they always run quiet and smooth.

Yes, they are expensive, but they do have a 5 year warranty and best of all, no more clicking.


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## Buzzatronic (Mar 18, 2013)

DCE said:


> To me, applying loctite to carbon fiber when the only way to get a pf30 out again is by pounding, just doesn't make sense. I'm always worried that a piece of the carbon from the bottom bracket shell will come out too. I have pounded quite a few out, using the correct tools and never had this problem, but it just seems so crude to do on such a lightweight frame.


Isn't there a metal BB casing in there? I know when I serviced mine my bearings never touched the carbon and if I end up doing the loctite treatment I expect to only apply it metal to metal. 

Are you saying there is concern about the metal BB casing flexing in a way that damages the carbon when removing bearings? (Serious question, not trying to be snarky).


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## trauma-md (Feb 6, 2004)

Cannondale has been spec'ing PF30 frames that use Hollowgrams with metal (not plastic) inserts for the frames. As compared with the plastic FSA PF30's they originally used, these are less prone to noise and wear. They also allow the bearings themselves to be removed WITHOUT damaging the insert (the FSA plastic PF30 inserts would basically be destroyed when removing them, although the bearing would be fine).

The Loctite is 609 that is suggested when utilizing PF30 inserts is not really "loctite" per se, it is actually a filler that is specific for press fit assemblies that may have some gap that needs to be filled (i.e. an interface that isn't exactly shaped the same: like a carbon BB shell and a PF30 insert), thus augmenting the surrounding structure's fit/hold onto the bearing/assembly. It is not hard to break this fill and will not damage the carbon. It is actually meant for assemblies that will require replacement or dismantling.

I always use the 609 Loctite because with some of my other frames that have PF bearings, the inserts/BB seem to go in and come out so easily, otherwise. I've had problems with the inserts actually slipping in the frame. (i.e. FSA/Sram/Shimano do NOT mention use of 609 application in their instructions)

The metal insert will not damage the carbon when you remove it, only if you actually mistakenly hit the carbon with the removal tool or hammer, will it cause damage.

The 2014 Synapses actually have BB30A and not PF30 like the EVO, so they don't require this.

BOTTOM LINE(s)

Ditch any of the FSA or other plastic insert PF30's for your hollowgrams.

You can use Loctite 609 without any worries.

PF30 bearings are easily greased, removed, replaced, reused with the metal insert Hollowgram PF30 BB.

Chris King bottom brackets are definitely top notch, no doubt about that.


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## DCE (Jul 14, 2010)

It's my understanding that the newer Cannondale aluminum PF30 cups do not keep the water out of the bearings because they are open in the middle. This could be a problem if you ride in a wet area.


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## ARPRINCE (Feb 12, 2011)

drothman said:


> how did it work out for you? I had the same problem on my 2014 synapse 105.


LBS replaced the bearings. Was perfect until the second ride. I felt something on the non-drive side. At first I thought it was my cleats but then later found out that the bolt that holds the crankarm was not torqued properly and became lose. All is good now.


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## drothman (Sep 16, 2013)

FWIW - Brought back the 2nd bike. LBS is going to replace the bracket with a different model/brand/???? don't know the specifics. i just know that both bikes emitted the same clicking noise from the same general area when i road them in the 2 highest gears. if this doesn't fix the problem, i'm not interested in trying a 3rd Synapse. i may need to reconsider a domane....


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## dcb (Jul 21, 2008)

I realize that the OP's problem was definitely the bottom bracket as he noticed it with the chain off. But, if you hear squeaking/creaking while riding it may or may not be the BB30. Because of all the reports of noise coming from the BB area of Cannondales, I immediately thought that's what the creaking sound coming from my CAAD10 was. However, it turns out it was coming from my seatpost. Didn't matter if I was sitting or standing, it creaked on every pedal stroke. Periodically I take it out, clean it up and put it back and it takes care of the problem.


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## drothman (Sep 16, 2013)

in my case, it only creaked when i exerted downward pressure on the pedal with my right foot, and only in a very high gear...hard to imagine that's a seat issue.


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## dcb (Jul 21, 2008)

drothman said:


> in my case, it only creaked when i exerted downward pressure on the pedal with my right foot, and only in a very high gear...hard to imagine that's a seat issue.


I'm not suggesting there are no issues with BB30's not making noise. I'm just suggesting people eliminate some other possible issues. For me, these types of complaints are so prevalent that I assumed when my CAAD was making noise that it was the BB. Turns out it wasn't though in this particular case.


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## 5DII (Aug 5, 2013)

How much are the LBS' usually charging for cleaning and re-greasing the BB area?


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## josephr (Jun 17, 2010)

Buzzatronic said:


> Just had to regrease the BB30 on my 2014 Synapse Carbon 105. After about 1800mi it started making a terrible knocking noise (much worse than a squeak).
> 
> Now it's pretty quiet. Hopefully I don't have to do this too often but it's not terribly difficult now that I know what to expect.


2013 Synapse Alloy owner here...1800mi and just had re-grease which included replacing the bearings. All quiet now. When chain/cassette wear out, will replace with the Wheels replacement BB and Shimano 105 crank.


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## nasdaq (Jul 24, 2014)

drothman said:


> in my case, it only creaked when i exerted downward pressure on the pedal with my right foot, and only in a very high gear...hard to imagine that's a seat issue.


Same here , especially up hill. Any advice would be much appreciated. ( I don't have the knowledge to assemble crank/bottom bracket). Is it a good solution to switch to Shimano 105/Ultegra ?


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## josephr (Jun 17, 2010)

nasdaq said:


> Same here , especially up hill. Any advice would be much appreciated. ( I don't have the knowledge to assemble crank/bottom bracket). Is it a good solution to switch to Shimano 105/Ultegra ?


my LBS charged $20 for a BB re-pack and only took 'em half an hour. So, its not that big of a deal. Still, its an annoyance...I think the Shimano would shift better plus would tie in better over the Gossamer. But, thats just me...and, its a want...but can't really say its gonna be a life-changing upgrade.


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## macca33 (Oct 24, 2012)

drothman said:


> in my case, it only creaked when i exerted downward pressure on the pedal with my right foot, and only in a very high gear...hard to imagine that's a seat issue.



Don't be too dismissive of a possible seatpost/frame junction issue in those circumstances though.

I run two CAAD10s - each with Wheels Mfg 30mm to 24mm converters to allow the running of Shimano cranksets. I find them totally reliable, but after some time, particularly if you do a fair bit of wet weather riding, or hose the bike down a bit, the grease is displaced and some creaking can begin. It is a simple job - 30 minutes maximum including a good clean-up of the crankset - to pull it apart, regrease and reassemble. Full bearing changes only add a little bit more time to that.

Some people do not understand that, as with anything mechanical, there is a certain degree of maintenance required. They are usually the ones whose chains are always dry also....

cheers


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## Lombard (May 8, 2014)

drothman said:


> FWIW - Brought back the 2nd bike. LBS is going to replace the bracket with a different model/brand/???? don't know the specifics. i just know that both bikes emitted the same clicking noise from the same general area when i road them in the 2 highest gears. if this doesn't fix the problem, i'm not interested in trying a 3rd Synapse. i may need to reconsider a domane....


Before you consider a Domaine, I know someone who just found a cracked downtube while he was cleaning his. He was never in a crash or any other situation where there was impact to his frame. I have heard of other incidents with recent Trek OCLV downtubes cracking.

I say have the bike shop replace the BB with a different brand other than FSA. Getting a different bike because of a badly designed BB is like throwing out the baby with the bath water.


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## Lombard (May 8, 2014)

josephr said:


> my LBS charged $20 for a BB re-pack and only took 'em half an hour. So, its not that big of a deal. Still, its an annoyance...I think the Shimano would shift better plus would tie in better over the Gossamer. But, thats just me...and, its a want...but can't really say its gonna be a life-changing upgrade.


It's too bad Shimano doesn't make a BB30.


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## SundayNiagara (Apr 17, 2014)

Lombard said:


> It's too bad Shimano doesn't make a BB30.


It's too bad bike makers don't go back to threaded BBs!


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## Diopena1 (Jul 21, 2011)

Knock on wood.... My 2011 Supersix Himod's bottom bracket is quiet as can be.
Had it regreased last year when I changed out the Sram cranks for the SISL2's... no issues to date- over 2k miles ridden.


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## drothman (Sep 16, 2013)

Lombard said:


> I say have the bike shop replace the BB with a different brand other than FSA. Getting a different bike because of a badly designed BB is like throwing out the baby with the bath water.


LBS just packed up and sent 2nd Synapse back to Cannondale. I called Cannondale customer service and asked for a local rep to call me as i find it hard to believe that they can't present to me a bike that is functioning properly. MY LBS has had my bike(s) since the June and i've now lost a summer of riding. No knock on my LBS; they've been great, but still...very frustrating.


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## Lombard (May 8, 2014)

drothman said:


> LBS just packed up and sent 2nd Synapse back to Cannondale. I called Cannondale customer service and asked for a local rep to call me as i find it hard to believe that they can't present to me a bike that is functioning properly. MY LBS has had my bike(s) since the June and i've now lost a summer of riding. No knock on my LBS; they've been great, but still...very frustrating.


That's why I say for the cost of a different BB, it isn't worth the hassle of a warranty claim and all that lost downtime. It's not like it's costly to go out of pocket and get a different brand BB. Personally, I would eat this one and get back on thr bike as soon as I could, but that's just me.


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## Stumpy2011 (Aug 1, 2011)

trauma-md said:


> Cannondale has been spec'ing PF30 frames that use Hollowgrams with metal (not plastic) inserts for the frames. As compared with the plastic FSA PF30's they originally used, these are less prone to noise and wear. They also allow the bearings themselves to be removed WITHOUT damaging the insert (the FSA plastic PF30 inserts would basically be destroyed when removing them, although the bearing would be fine).


Hi Scott,
Do you happen to know if the 2012 Supersix Evo HM has the metal or plastic FP30 ?
https://www.bicyclebluebook.com/searchlistingdetail.aspx?id=3040565
I never replaced the BB/Bearings - maybe it is time...


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