# 585 to 586. Differences = worth it?



## maximum7 (Apr 24, 2008)

Just wondering if anyone has had a 585 and moved up to a 586. 
Wondering what differences were noticed and if the move was worth it. 

Please, would only like to hear from people that have owned both, or have extensively ridden both. 

Thanks.


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## rward325 (Sep 22, 2008)

Having looked at both extensively before purchasing my 586 last year I can tell you these are 2 fairly different bikes. The geometry on the 586 is a bit more relaxed, I am 5' 10" 210 lBs and the 586 head tube angle was better for me. The biggest claimed difference is in the lugged vs. Monocoque frame area. Having ridden a 585 Ultra and a 586 Optima I can say the 585 was stiffer at the least in the bottom bracket area. I felt better power transfer and less flex than in the 586. I am in this for comfort these days and am not looking ot break any speed records. For me the 586 was a better bike. So it depends what you are looking to do with this bike.


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## toonraid (Sep 19, 2006)

I would have expected more comfort from the lug & tube construction of 585 than the monocoque of 586!


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## maximum7 (Apr 24, 2008)

I'm on a 585 Optimum and I love it, but always wondering what the next level is. I would have chosen the 595, but I needed the shorter top tube of the Optimum, having longer legs and a short torso. And at the time, the ISP scared me. 
The goemetry of the 586 is closer to the Optimum, than the 595, so that is why I was considering it if I made a move. I also am more about comfort than stiffness, but wouldn't want anything less stiff in the BB than my Optimum. I'm pretty heavy at 5' 9" and 155lbs, but I don't think I need to worry about stiffness being an issue on either bike. 
I am surprised to hear about the 586 being more flexy. Always wondered why the pros weren't riding it. 

Thanks guys for the info.


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## NorCalBiker (Jul 10, 2006)

I have been riding the 585 since they came out. Just recently purchased a 586 frame and campy groupo but I have not built it yet. I will built this 586 starting this Saturday and hopefully get some mileage before the year end. As soon as this happened, I will post my comment or input between the two. 

Reason for me getting the 586 is because I am now more for comfort (50 years young) than speed. Like rward325 said, I am not looking to break any speed records. I am starting to enjoy my weekend by riding 50-75 miles per ride.


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## nrspeed (Jan 28, 2005)

585 origin is well balanced and an excellent bike, especially at its price point.
586 wasnt any more comfortable but was _way_ too flexy in the BB for me at 175 lbs. I got rid of it right away.


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## maximum7 (Apr 24, 2008)

That really surprises me. Especially for the price.


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## trunkz22 (Sep 12, 2008)

I agree. I've always thought the 586 was more of a racy stiff frame from what I've seen on RBR. I guess not. I recently got a 585 and love it to the ground.


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## toonraid (Sep 19, 2006)

maximum7 - do bear in mind that while 586 has a shorter TT, the HT is also shorter so check your saddle to bar drop before ordering.

586 is designed to land between 585 & 595 in terms of stiffness - well according to look anyway - fork is same as 595, HSC6 which is stiffer and heavier than 585's HSC5 and it does also shares 595's oversized HT so on paper atleast front end should be stiffer than 585 but as well as nrspeed (who mentioned it last year) a friend of mine who has a 586 also commented about BB flex. I do have a 586 and 595 but haven't built up the Mondrian 586 yet due to an ongoing lower back issue which I know is going to be aggrevated by the shorter HT on 586 so can't comment on differences between the 2 - nrspeed has had both and by the sound of it the 585 too so best guy to comment - his past reviews have been spot on so will be a reliable review which is not the case with 90% of reviews on here on magazines!


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## nrspeed (Jan 28, 2005)

Thanks toon. If only my wife was as appreciative of me changing bikes as often as underwear. 
IIRC, the 586 geo wasnt that far off the 585/595 TT length due to the change in STA. The 586 also has the same external HS as the 595, at least when I had it, so that may give you a few mms over the 585 more standard HS cap.


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## maximum7 (Apr 24, 2008)

Thanks guys for the info. 
I am on a Medium Optimum and it fits me perfect. I have long legs and a short torso, so I don't know if I would have to go with a size smaller in a 586 or 595 as I am using a 90mm stem. After reading everyone's thoughts about the 586, I thinking I might not be missing out on too much. Since I'm not racing or super powerful, I wonder if the 595 might be over kill. 
I might just stick with what I have, for a while.


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## toonraid (Sep 19, 2006)

nrspeed said:


> ... , the 586 geo wasnt that far off the 585/595 TT length due to the change in STA. The 586 also has the same external HS as the 595, at least when I had it, so that may give you a few mms over the 585 more standard HS cap.


My bad you are right - I was thinking of my size i.e. largest in 586 vs largest in 595 - 586 only goes up to XL where as you can get the 595 in XXL as well.


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## Ride-Fly (Mar 27, 2002)

maximum7 said:


> I might just stick with what I have, for a while.


Quit your lying-a$$ ways Max!!! You can't do that if your life depended on it and you KNOW IT!!! You have the sickness- just like most of us do!


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## maximum7 (Apr 24, 2008)

Jeepers NorCalbiker! I'm still waiting for your comparison review!


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## twiggy73 (Jan 19, 2010)

I to am surprised at the issue of flex in the 586 !! and the extra comfort? as every mono frame i have tried has been way to vertically stiff for me and very stiff in the BB 

I am Loving my new 585 origin it is the perfect ride for me in every way and as many have said before it is one of the best balanced bikes around 
If i had to change i would head straight to the top and go for the 595 as i still believe that tube n lug provides the best all round preformance of the 2 construction methods 

and by the sounds of the flex issues on the 586 if they get it wrong mono frames either end up to stiff or to flexi 


Twiggy73


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## rward325 (Sep 22, 2008)

nrspeed said:


> 585 origin is well balanced and an excellent bike, especially at its price point.
> 586 wasnt any more comfortable but was _way_ too flexy in the BB for me at 175 lbs. I got rid of it right away.


I was a little surprised by this comment when I read it back in December. I didn't have a lot of miles on my bike so I though I would reserve comment until I had done some real riding. Now with a year on the bike and 3000 miles I am trying to figure out what flex in the BB you were referring to? I weigh in at over 200lbs and can assure that when I get out of the saddle on a hill or when I get up to sprint at the end of our rides, the flex you refer to is not here. I have ridden a couple of other supposedly stiffer frames and there is no less flex at the BB on those bikes(585 and Felt F2) than on the 586. The only place I have ever felt flex was in my old wheel set which was replaced with the HED Stallions and that solved that. Bike handles well in the downhills with confidence and secure grip to the road. Climbs great for a guy as big as I am that hates climbing hills. The 586 is everything I hoped it would be when I did the original research in to it.


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## maximum7 (Apr 24, 2008)

So Rward, can you clarify your two thoughts for me then?


> Having ridden a 585 Ultra and a 586 Optima I can say the 585 was stiffer at the least in the bottom bracket area. I felt better power transfer and less flex than in the 586.





> the flex you refer to is not here. I have ridden a couple of other supposedly stiffer frames and there is no less flex at the BB on those bikes(585 and Felt F2) than on the 586.


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## rward325 (Sep 22, 2008)

I believe the flex I felt back then was based on the wheels that were on the bike at the time. Having since put the HED Ardennes on the bike the ride is completely different. The 585 Ultra I test rode had the HED Ardennes on it at the time. I was riding the 586 with DT Swiss 1.1 rims laced radially 224 poke front and 2x rear to 240s hubs. The Ardennes were Stallion build and meant for my weight. I did not realize this huge difference when I wrote the original review,.


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