# S-Works SL3 order BB30 or not ??



## 1jmt (Oct 16, 2010)

I know this question has most likely been asked however, my search did not show much information. I guess we would all agree that BB30 is better, at least if you are a top level race teem member with multiple free frame-sets and a mechanic to work on them. For the majority of us that do not fit into that category would it be better to stay with a threaded BB?
When I checked availability there is a two week wait for a standard BB or five weeks for the BB30 so the demand is much greater for BB30.
Please let me know your thoughts or experience.


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## IAmSpecialized (Jul 16, 2008)

1jmt said:


> I guess we would all agree that BB30 is better, at least if you are a top level race teem member with multiple free frame-sets and a mechanic to work on them. .


Not necessarily...


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## PJ352 (Dec 5, 2007)

1jmt said:


> I know this question has most likely been asked however, my search did not show much information. *I guess we would all agree that BB30 is better*, at least if you are a top level race teem member with multiple free frame-sets and a mechanic to work on them. For the majority of us that do not fit into that category would it be better to stay with a threaded BB?
> When I checked availability there is a two week wait for a standard BB or five weeks for the BB30 so the demand is much greater for BB30.
> Please let me know your thoughts or experience.


I don't. I think it's a mix of marketing hype and a move towards more modular (read, proprietary) frameset designs in the future.

Here's a related thread that may interest you:
http://forums.roadbikereview.com/showthread.php?t=225319


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## IAmSpecialized (Jul 16, 2008)

FWIW, I agree with PJ.

Don't confuse "better" on paper and mathematical models versus real world and practical application.


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## purdyd (Jun 18, 2010)

1jmt said:


> I know this question has most likely been asked however, my search did not show much information. I guess we would all agree that BB30 is better.


it appears to be lighter in general and there are plenty of alternate sources for BB30 cranksets

OSBB seems ok to me so far .... 

I think ukbloke had some good advice



> The way I see it is that if you are going to use a Specialized frameset with SRAM (or Specialized's or FSA's crank) get the OSBB, but if you are going to use Shimano get the regular BB. If you honestly think that in the future you will want to swap crank-set then get OSBB and use an adapter. If you are planning to run Shimano it doesn't really make sense to me to get the OSBB and the adapter in the hope that they bring out a BB30 crank-set - all indications are that they will not.


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## roadie01 (Apr 13, 2010)

I had a S-Works Tarmac SL with the OSBB which is the same as a BB30 used on most top model or pro tour level frames. I rode this year round for 3 1/2 years with no plans to replace the frame just yet, at least until I was hit by a truck and my frame was destroyed. Any how back to the point, the BB30 standard will result in lighter frame weight, lighter bottom bracket weight, and possible lighter crank weight. Overall the potential for weight savings is enough that I would wait for the OSBB if it where an option. 

As for ease of service, the OSBB is no more difficult to service than any other BB. In fact it is possible that with the OSBB no special tools are needed save for an extended allen key (Specialized Cranks), but no special cup tool is neeed. A bearing press may be needed depending on the fitment of your bearings in relation to the frame. 

I've looked at the new SL3 frame and with the OSBB they use a trick carbon BB sleave in the frame compared to the aluminum sleeve in the regular version. My guess is the carbon sleeve in addition to being lighter will also result in less BB creaking. Mine creaked, but a light film of blue thread locker to the BB race cured this for about 6 months or just over 1,000 miles.


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## Blade-Runner (Jun 4, 2008)

roadie01 said:


> My guess is the carbon sleeve in addition to being lighter will also result in less BB creaking. Mine creaked, but a light film of blue thread locker to the BB race cured this for about 6 months or just over 1,000 miles.


A 1,000 miles, that's like 4-5 weeks for me.


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## IAmSpecialized (Jul 16, 2008)

Blade-Runner said:


> A 1,000 miles, that's like 4-5 weeks for me.


lol...Yeh, I was going to say, that's maybe two and a half weeks for me. I would be really disgusted. The problems with creaking OSBB's the past few years is one reason I stayed away from BB30. Cannondale has it right. But Specialized is still working out kinks. My LBS sees a ton of creaking issues with the OSBB and basically Specialized won't recognize it as a widespread problem. It's bad when even the guys at the shop prefer a standard BB to the OSBB just based on the problems they've seen coming in.

However, it seems that Specialized is really close to getting it right, perhaps the 2010 will finally have the BB30 problems worked out and just might be as problem free as Cannondale.

If it matters to anyone, I actually do NOT like the narrower q-factor the BB30 gives. My pelvis is a little too wide and thus prefers a little wider q-factor. You can only adjust cleats so much to make up for it. So, as "great" as the BB30 is (stiffness, weight, etc), it's not for everyone. I also dare say the average 140-170lb cyclist can not possibly feel the difference in stiffness. That is based on numbers in a lab so to speak. And weight savings...well...90% (arbitrary number I've picked) of us would be MUCH better served to lose another 5 pounds from our bellies than worry about bragging rights over the 100 grams we saved with a BB30 system.

Just my .02...but I'm no expert.


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## ewitz (Sep 11, 2002)

If the choice is between the Spec crank and rings or a DA crank and rings then I don't care what size the BB is. The 7900 crankset offers better shifting than anything currently on the market. I am willing to take a minor weight penalty for the significantly better shifting.


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## 3465mike (Dec 7, 2004)

I manage a SPECIALIZED concept store in Socal....we've sold about a dozen probuild, OSBB frames...not one has had ANY creaking issues related to the bb.....Frames are getting better, lighter and stiffer..BB30 is just the evolution.....it's hard to get substantially better than the current setup, that being said, it is slightly better.....


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## IAmSpecialized (Jul 16, 2008)

3465mike said:


> ...we've sold about a dozen probuild, OSBB frames...not one has had ANY creaking issues related to the bb.....



1. So N= ~12. Hmmm, big sample size you've got there.

2. Not one has had any creaking issues. The year isn't even over yet. Don't you think it's a bit early to act like your 12 bikes without creaking issues is reflective of Specialized OSBB?

Of course not...you manage the store.

The simple fact is Specialized has had TONS of issues with OSBB the past few years. You know it and so do I. You might not admit it, but that doesn't absolve the fact. I'm not bashing Specialized, I wouldn't ride anything else! I've loved both of my Tarmacs and my recently built Allez is getting LOTS of attention from me. But call it for what it is, the OSBB has had lots of problems with creaking and there have been a good many reports of spun bearings...I think I'm saying it right. Basically the tolerances between bearing and frame weren't tight enough and they spun.

Of course it's the evolution. Such an evolution that Shimano and Campy are all over it. And of course, all the pro's ride BB30 now...right?

It MIGHT be the wave of the future, but no one really knows until 10 years from now...or more.


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## IAmSpecialized (Jul 16, 2008)

3465MIKE: Regardless of the fact that I now realize my post just came off like I'm a complete a$$hole, that is NOT how I intended it to read.

Just wanted to make that clear.

Carry on...


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## 3465mike (Dec 7, 2004)

My practical, real world experience as a Specialized dealer for the past 4 years, has simply not been as you described. Period. So, no, I "don't know it" ...Now, if you work internally at Specialized and have company wide experience to refute this, than so be it. But I'm just posting my experiences....as are you? Since the 2011 SL3 has only been out about 2-3 months, 12 ground up frame builds is a lot, in my opinion. True, the bearings have not had the best lifespan. We've been replacing the stock ceramics with hi-quality steel bearings, like those offered by HAWK racing. 
Using campy and shimano as indicator of progression with new bike technology isn't the best argument...Wasn't shimano offering 1" threaded headest with their Dura-ace group a few years back? Didn't they just offer a carbon injected pedal this year, even though Look has been doing it for 5? And Campy? Well they are making BBright cranks in 2011..which is essentially an evolution of BB30....not to mention practically every manufacturer offering bb30 bikes in their hi end this year.....again, just giving my experiences!


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## wetpaint (Oct 12, 2008)

A large portion of my team has Tarmacs with BB30 as well as myself and no one has had any problems. I've put over 14,000 miles on mine over the past 1.5yrs and its been perfect


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## tom_h (May 6, 2008)

*Quarq power meters*

Another consideration: the highly regarded Quarq powermeters only install onto certain cranksets, and many of those cranksets are BB30 only.

For this reason only, if I was to re-purchase my '09 SL2 frameset, I'd likely go with the BB30 "module" frame, instead of the threaded version.


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## -dustin (Jan 11, 2009)

I haven't had any issues w/ OSBB or PF30 frames. Haven't had any issues with BB30 frames, either. Specialized and Cannondale dealer. 

I think PF30 is an ideal solution to the BB30 'problem'. And adapters available from Wheels, to me, leave no reason to get a non-PF30 Specialized frame.


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## Ollie Right (May 5, 2010)

tom_h said:


> Another consideration: the highly regarded Quarq powermeters only install onto certain cranksets, and many of those cranksets are BB30 only.
> 
> For this reason only, if I was to re-purchase my '09 SL2 frameset, I'd likely go with the BB30 "module" frame, instead of the threaded version.


Do the SRAM S975 Quarqs install on the Spec OSBB without replacing the Specialized BB30/OSBB bottom bracket?

Thanks


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## tom_h (May 6, 2008)

Ollie Right said:


> Do the SRAM S975 Quarqs install on the Spec OSBB without replacing the Specialized BB30/OSBB bottom bracket?
> 
> Thanks


sorry, I don't know.


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## roadie01 (Apr 13, 2010)

Blade-Runner said:


> A 1,000 miles, that's like 4-5 weeks for me.



I used to ride that much before a corporate job that requires 50 plus hours per week, 5 kids all in school with homework and reading, girl and boy scouts, dance practice, violin practice, soccer games, etc... Oh last but not surely not least not neglecting the wife.


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## RkFast (Dec 11, 2004)

I was fighting this same battle internally and decided to go with the OSBB frame because its pretty clear most, if not all frame manufacturers are going to SOME kind of oversized BB now or in the near future. That tells ME that this is the way to go.


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## goneskiian (Jan 13, 2005)

Ollie Right said:


> Do the SRAM S975 Quarqs install on the Spec OSBB without replacing the Specialized BB30/OSBB bottom bracket?
> 
> Thanks


Is the SRAM S975 a BB30 crank? What year is the frame?

This should have your answer...

http://forums.mtbr.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=568962&d=1284649902

It's strange that I tried to attach this here but got a message about the file exceeding the attachment limit when you can clearly attach it on the sister site of MTBR. 

Cheers!


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## 1jmt (Oct 16, 2010)

goneskiian said:


> Is the SRAM S975 a BB30 crank? What year is the frame?
> 
> This should have your answer...
> 
> ...


It's very helpful, thank you.

1jmt


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## Ollie Right (May 5, 2010)

goneskiian said:


> Is the SRAM S975 a BB30 crank? What year is the frame?
> 
> This should have your answer...
> 
> ...


That is perfect. Many thanks.


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## goneskiian (Jan 13, 2005)

You're welcome.


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## ukbloke (Sep 1, 2007)

goneskiian - thanks, also, that is a very helpful compatibility chart. I had not fully appreciated the distinction between carbon shell OSBB and alloy shell OSBB until reading this. I see that the 2011 Tarmac Pro bike has an SL-3 frame with the alloy OSBB shell ... but that's not the same as the carbon OSBB on the SWorks SL-3 frame.

I am willing to be convinced that OSBB is the better choice for an SWorks SL3 frame-set. For me, it would come down to long-term reliability and weight saving, and I'm willing to presume that Specialized have got it right in terms of creaking and durability. The other purported advantages (such as stiffness or axle width) aren't particularly of interest to me since these are hardly performance limiters (for me).

So that really just leaves weight and I'd like to understand how much savings there really is. If it is a 100g savings then it is a no-brainer. If it is 50g then that would still be interesting. If it is just 25g then that's practically in the noise IMHO. Does anyone have any real-world numbers? In fact, I'm most interested in the use of a standard Shimano crank and the Wheels Manufacturing BB30-SHIM adapter (or similar) and how much that affects the weight savings. 

I'd like to estimate:

Weight savings of the carbon OSBB frame over the standard threaded frame
Weight savings of the OSBB hardware (2x bearing cups plus 2x 6806 bearings plus 2x BB30-SHIM plus any washers/spacers) over the standard Dura Ace BB (88g). The BB30-SHIM is 47g for the pair, so I think this is going to be close to parity.

So does anyone happen to know what the real-world savings in the S-Works SL3 frame weight actually is?


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## tom_h (May 6, 2008)

ukbloke, 

Also consider that some BB30-only cranksets, are themselves especially light. The Cannondale crankset comes to mind (I'm going by my recollection of C-dale's advertised weight & strength).

You might take that into account for "ultimate potential for weight savings with BB30".


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## ukbloke (Sep 1, 2007)

tom_h said:


> ukbloke,
> 
> Also consider that some BB30-only cranksets, are themselves especially light. The Cannondale crankset comes to mind (I'm going by my recollection of C-dale's advertised weight & strength).
> 
> You might take that into account for "ultimate potential for weight savings with BB30".


Thanks, I appreciate that. I should have mentioned the premise that one is constrained to a standard non-BB30 crank set. One reason is to normalize the savings to that inherent in the BB30 system, and also one might be tied to a particular crank-set because you already have it or because you want to stay within one group-set for the whole build (eg. Shimano DA 7900 or Di2). Also there are some crazy light crank-sets that are not BB30 too.

Anyway, this is also hypothetical for me at the moment. My wife has unilaterally set "financial targets" (without any prompting from me in the new bike direction) that we need to hit before I get to go crazy on a new bike. But if I was going to buy right now, I'm pretty sure it would be an S-Works SL3 Tarmac frameset and I'm very curious as to whether one would go OSBB or not.

Anyone know whether the press-in bearing cups (part number 5 in the Specialized diagram) come with the frame-set, or do you need to source them elsewhere?


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## alexp247365 (Dec 29, 2009)

To contribute to the issue at hand.

I have a 2010 Cannondale Super-six 2 BB30 with Hollowgram cranks. 3800 miles on it in its maiden year. There was some creaking, but that was due to the crank arm not being tight. My LBS re-torqued it to spec, and have not had an issue since. A full year of no problems was enough of a decisive factor for me to order the 2011 Tarmac S-works frame with OSBB. Combine this frame with the hollogram cranks and you have the beginnings to an awesome bike.


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## 1jmt (Oct 16, 2010)

ukbloke said:


> Thanks, I appreciate that. I should have mentioned the premise that one is constrained to a standard non-BB30 crank set. One reason is to normalize the savings to that inherent in the BB30 system, and also one might be tied to a particular crank-set because you already have it or because you want to stay within one group-set for the whole build (eg. Shimano DA 7900 or Di2). Also there are some crazy light crank-sets that are not BB30 too.
> 
> Anyway, this is also hypothetical for me at the moment. My wife has unilaterally set "financial targets" (without any prompting from me in the new bike direction) that we need to hit before I get to go crazy on a new bike. But if I was going to buy right now, I'm pretty sure it would be an S-Works SL3 Tarmac frameset and I'm very curious as to whether one would go OSBB or not.
> 
> Anyone know whether the press-in bearing cups (part number 5 in the Specialized diagram) come with the frame-set, or do you need to source them elsewhere?


I decided to go with the 2011 S-Works SL3 OSBB frameset. My dealer told me I could expect delivery in the first week of December. Part number 5 in the Specialized diagram does not come with the frameset. I am going to use my Sram red GXP crankset with the Wheels Manufacturing BB30-SRAM adapter and Hawk Racing bearings. I will post my experience once I get everything.


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## purdyd (Jun 18, 2010)

ukbloke said:


> Anyone know whether the press-in bearing cups (part number 5 in the Specialized diagram) come with the frame-set, or do you need to source them elsewhere?


the Delrin Bottom Bracket Cup comes with the frame

http://cdn.specialized.com/OA_MEDIA/pdf/manuals/IG0227 2010_SL3_Carbon_Crank_Installation_r4.pdf


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## -dustin (Jan 11, 2009)

just to confirm, yes, the cups do come with the frames.


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## purdyd (Jun 18, 2010)

1jmt said:


> Part number 5 in the Specialized diagram does not come with the frameset. .


the s-works SL3 includes the delrin adaptor aka part number 5

i know because it came with my frameset - without it you will not be able to install the BB30 bearings


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## 1jmt (Oct 16, 2010)

purdyd said:


> the Delrin Bottom Bracket Cup comes with the frame
> 
> http://cdn.specialized.com/OA_MEDIA/pdf/manuals/IG0227 2010_SL3_Carbon_Crank_Installation_r4.pdf


Thanks for the good news, I was misinformed.


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## ukbloke (Sep 1, 2007)

1jmt said:


> I decided to go with the 2011 S-Works SL3 OSBB frameset. My dealer told me I could expect delivery in the first week of December. Part number 5 in the Specialized diagram does not come with the frameset. I am going to use my Sram red GXP crankset with the Wheels Manufacturing BB30-SRAM adapter and Hawk Racing bearings. I will post my experience once I get everything.


Cool, enjoy your new bike! The wait can be a killer, but I bet it comes in earlier than Specialized's prediction. If possible, please try and weigh the frame naked and also the bottom bracket parts. Cheers!


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## 1jmt (Oct 16, 2010)

ukbloke said:


> Cool, enjoy your new bike! The wait can be a killer, but I bet it comes in earlier than Specialized's prediction. If possible, please try and weigh the frame naked and also the bottom bracket parts. Cheers!


I just ordered a NSF Approved Digital Scale so I can get a highly accurate weight and I will post the results.


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## IAmSpecialized (Jul 16, 2008)

1jmt said:


> I just ordered a NSF Approved Digital Scale so I can get a highly accurate weight and I will post the results.


+1

WIN.


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## skilby (May 18, 2011)

roadie01 said:


> ... Mine creaked, but a light film of blue thread locker to the BB race cured this for about 6 months or just over 1,000 miles.


Hi Roadie01, I have a 2009 S-Works Tarmac SL2 with the Specialized crankset. I'm assuming I have the OSBB. I didn't purchase the bike (new) until late in 2010, and by now I've ridden about 3000 miles on it. At about 1500 miles, the BB started creaking, so I was interested to read your post. 

This is more of a light clunk than a creak, and it's intermittent. But something's definitely moving down there. I'm going to pull the unit apart and see if I can detect a problem, and hoped I could pick your (or other) brains a little. 

Do you think I will need a crank bearing puller (I'm hoping it's not a broken bearing)? And what surface did you apply the thread locker to?

One bike shop employee told me that these bearing sets need servicing every 1500 miles. Have you heard this? I'm not sure what has to be done every 1500 miles. From the sound of it, some glue needs to be applied to help hold the bearing cartridges in place?


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## roadie01 (Apr 13, 2010)

skilby said:


> Hi Roadie01, I have a 2009 S-Works Tarmac SL2 with the Specialized crankset. I'm assuming I have the OSBB. I didn't purchase the bike (new) until late in 2010, and by now I've ridden about 3000 miles on it. At about 1500 miles, the BB started creaking, so I was interested to read your post.
> 
> This is more of a light clunk than a creak, and it's intermittent. But something's definitely moving down there. I'm going to pull the unit apart and see if I can detect a problem, and hoped I could pick your (or other) brains a little.
> 
> ...


Congratulations on the SL2! I also picked up a S-Works SL2 frame last fall after my original SL was destroyed and love it so far. Unfortunately mine is the standard threaded BB. I would have prefered a BB30, but my budget didn't allow me to get the new SL3 and the LBS made me a deal on this one. 

You shouldn't need a bearing puller or press if the BB shell and bearings are the same as in my SL. Once you remove your crank put your finger inside the bearing and pull. If you can move the bearing with your finger and a little muscle work your way around until the bearing is out. To re-install repeat in reverse pushing the cup in. becareful to work your way around. Once the bearing is in make sure it's fully seated by taping the edges with a solid rubber mallet. 

I doubt the creak I had is related to what your describing. It sounds like you have one of two problems. 
1. The bearing is moving in the cup, this is not good and you should not ride your bike until this is fixed. Any play in a sealed bearing seat means continued "clunking" is equal to continued wear on the mating surfaces. 
2. The bearing it's self is bad and allowing the inner race of the sealed bearing to move.

I used to work for the LBS and am pretty tight with them. They never mentioned anything to me about a 1500 mile maintenance schedule. 

When I started having creaking problems I disassembled my BB and greased everything up. The creaking persisted so I had a conversation with them and had them check my BB for any issues. Note there was no play in the cranks. That's when they clued me in to the blue thread locker. The reason this works is the thread locker compound allows the sealed bearing to seat properly in the cup when wet but when dry will make up for any inperfections between the matting surfaces. I coated the bearings outer surface just because it was easier than coating the frame cup. The second advantage to the blue threadlocker is it's not permanent and you'll be able to remove the bearings with out to much hasle latter. Using an epoxy or glue to hold the cups in place is not a good idea.


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## skilby (May 18, 2011)

Roadie01, thanks for your helpful response. Yes, I'm loving the SL2! OK, it sounds like I need to pull the thing apart and see what I'm dealing with. Based on what you say, it sounds like I might need new bearings...


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## Ollie Right (May 5, 2010)

Just to bump an old topic rather than create a new thread.

Has anybody recently installed a SRAM S975 BB30 arms into the newer Carbon OSBB, and if so did you use any spacers other than the ones provided with the crank itself? 

Quarq on their website mention that spacers from the BB30 assembly kit are required but I just want to check before ordering as that may have been for the alloy OSBB.

Thanks in Advance


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## 1jmt (Oct 16, 2010)

Ollie Right said:


> Just to bump an old topic rather than create a new thread.
> 
> Has anybody recently installed a SRAM S975 BB30 arms into the newer Carbon OSBB, and if so did you use any spacers other than the ones provided with the crank itself?
> 
> ...


I needed to use only the wave washer. no spacers required with Sram Red crank-set


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