# Specialized Allez why such crappy looking welds?!!!



## Todd769 (Feb 21, 2009)

Why do the welds on the new Allez not look to smooth? If Cannondale could find a way to make there beautiful CAAD bikes with nice smooth welds could other brands not find a way to do it?!!!


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## ToffieBoi (May 1, 2011)

Reducing cost and having more profit


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## brianmcg (Oct 12, 2002)

There is more cost involved in Fillet brazing vs regular welding. Everyone knows how to do it they choose not to.


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## PJ352 (Dec 5, 2007)

You're talking pure aesthetics. Once could argue that smoothing welds can weaken them. 

But beyond that, I simply disagree that (overall) C'dales finished products are in any way superior to Specs. ATMO..


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## Todd769 (Feb 21, 2009)

So why would anyone want to buy a speacialized or other brand when they choose not to go the extra mile and pay attention to the small details like Cannondale has always done with there bikes?!!!


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## vagabondcyclist (Apr 2, 2011)

Umm...you do know C-Dale doesn't fillet braze their frames, right? They grind down the welds to make them look smooth and always have. Before C-Dale cleans up their welds they are pretty ugly looking.

See starting around 2:15.


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## Randy99CL (Mar 27, 2013)

Sometimes companies smooth the welds to hide crappy welding!

Unless there has been a couple of passes I don't want the welds ground off. If done right, smoothing doesn't necessarily make the weld weaker but it certainly doesn't make it any stronger.
The tubing on these frames is so thin that whoever does the grinding/sanding better be a real expert.
And how much does the many man-hours of sanding add to the price of the frame?

I'd much rather see good welds, especially on an import frame.


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## PJ352 (Dec 5, 2007)

Todd769 said:


> So why would anyone want to buy a speacialized or other brand when they choose not to go the extra mile and pay attention to the small details like Cannondale has always done with there bikes?!!!


lol.. what "small details"?? They weld a few alu tubes together and call it a frame. You may *think* there's some sprinkling of magic dust here, but there really isn't. 

There simply TIG welded, alu frames. If you _really_ care about aesthetics, buy custom steel or Ti. THERE, you _are _talking quality craftsmanship.

Got a question for you. Did you cross post this in other manufacturers forums, or are you just trolling here?? :wink5:


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## Todd769 (Feb 21, 2009)

''SmartFormed Alloy'' The distilled result of three decades of accumulated aluminum construction experience, SmartForming techniques deliver incredibly precise wall thickness distribution and tube shapes, concentrating material exactly where needed to maximize stiffness and strength, while shaving every last extraneous gram from the structure. Internally all butting is accomplished via smooth tapered transitions to eliminate the abrupt changes in material thickness which cause stress-risers. Unlike the putty-and-paint ''smooth welds of our competition, Cannondale's legendary double-pass smooth welds create the strongest possible joints. Combined with our post-weld, heat-treat process that creates an true uni-body finished structure, and you've got simply the most advanced aluminum frames.


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## Randy99CL (Mar 27, 2013)

PJ352 said:


> Got a question for you. Did you cross post this in other manufacturers forums, or are you just trolling here?? :wink5:


The guy definitely seems hung up on smooth welds and wants to judge the quality of a manufacturer by whether or not they sand them.

Of all the hundreds of things that matter in frame choice, the smoothness of the welds is probably the least important.
But the quality of those welds is very important so I want to see them.


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## vagabondcyclist (Apr 2, 2011)

Todd769 said:


> ''SmartFormed Alloy'' Unlike the putty-and-paint ''smooth welds of our competition, Cannondale's legendary double-pass smooth welds create the strongest possible joints. Combined with our post-weld, heat-treat process that creates an true uni-body finished structure, and you've got simply the most advanced aluminum frames.


Just remember that a lot of that "smooth weld" is the result of sanding/grinding.


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## Todd769 (Feb 21, 2009)

Really to me it does not sound like 'small' details more like they know what they are doing when it comes to making the best aluminum frames on the market!!!


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## Todd769 (Feb 21, 2009)

I think it is done to eliminate the stress- risers in the weld which could lead to a week spot! That small attention is why there CAAD frames are the best in the world.


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## PJ352 (Dec 5, 2007)

Todd769 said:


> ''SmartFormed Alloy''...


Yeah, Specialized calls there's Smartweld. Same thing.


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## Todd769 (Feb 21, 2009)

PJ352 said:


> lol.. what "small details"?? They weld a few alu tubes together and call it a frame. You may *think* there's some sprinkling of magic dust here, but there really isn't.
> 
> There simply TIG welded, alu frames. If you _really_ care about aesthetics, buy custom steel or Ti. THERE, you _are _talking quality craftsmanship.
> 
> Got a question for you. Did you cross post this in other manufacturers forums, or are you just trolling here?? :wink5:


Nope just an average guy who loves bikes! I look at all of the brands and then compare what the have to offer. I just don;t think Specialized makes a nice of a bike as Cannondales!


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## PJ352 (Dec 5, 2007)

Randy99CL said:


> The guy definitely seems hung up on C'dale and (for whatever reason) picked the Specialized forum for trolling.


Fixed it. :wink5:


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## PJ352 (Dec 5, 2007)

Todd769 said:


> Nope just an average guy who loves *C'dales*! I look at all of the brands and then compare what the have to offer. I just don;t think Specialized makes a nice of a bike as Cannondales!


Fixed it for you..

I think you should go visit the C'dale forum and sing the (C'dale) praises with those folks. At least until the company is bought/ resold... again (and again).

Or, stay here and try to convert us. But by my latest tally, you're battin' zero!


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## Typetwelve (Jul 1, 2012)

You're talking about an entry level road bike here...

If you don't care for the welds on a certain brand...don't buy one. The Allez frame set has won numerous awards for being an exceptional road bike at an entry level price.

Now...if you look up the ladder in the Allez line you'll find nicer frames. Within the Allez line, they actually offer 3 different frames; the A1, the E5 and the E5 Hydroformed. The sub $1100 models have the A1 frame, the $1450 models the E5 and the >$1700 the hydro E5. More $$ comes with a nicer frame and better finish.

Personally, I couldn't care less if a company drops some frill like smoothing welds to offer a great riding frame for lower $$ and by what I've read/heard, the Allez is a great bike for the $$.


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## Todd769 (Feb 21, 2009)

Just read in a mag where the tester of the new Allez hydro E5 race states that he could feel a lot of flex coming from the bottom bracket of this top end aluminum frame and, the tester only weighed a buck 50!!! Coming from a top bike mag!!!


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## PJ352 (Dec 5, 2007)

Todd769 said:


> Just read in a mag where the tester of the new Allez hydro E5 race states that he could feel a lot of flex coming from the bottom bracket of this top end aluminum frame and, the tester only weighed a buck 50!!! Coming from a top bike mag!!!


Wow, to say you're impressionable is an understatement. 

But as was stated, the Allez's have won a number of awards. FWIW, Jamis Icon beat our your beloved C'dale CAAD in Bicyclings latest round. I guess the testers didn't notice (or care about) the welds.


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## headloss (Mar 3, 2013)

PJ352 said:


> You're talking pure aesthetics. Once could argue that smoothing welds can weaken them.


That weld is the strongest piece of metal on the bike... I'd be more worried about accidentally damaging the metal around the weld (the weakest piece of metal on the bike... unless reenforced as part of the building/butting process).


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## Todd769 (Feb 21, 2009)

Why try to defend a lesser bike?! It's on Specialized and all bike brands to make better bike frames all around and it's very sad that many just do not take the time to pay attention to small details that make for a better looking and riding bike frame and that includes the new Jamis Icon. With there 2,600 dollar bike having very lumpy looking weld quality....


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## Typetwelve (Jul 1, 2012)

Todd769 said:


> Why try to defend a lesser bike?!


Why bash it? Like you said, it's a "lesser" bike. Not every car is a Ferrari. 

I tried to explain things to you but you really don't want to hear it. If you don't care for a brand...fine. Coming on a forum to aimlessly bash something is a waste of time...and rather pointless.

There's plenty of brands I don't like...but I don't spend my time joining a forum simply to bash them. 

Go outside and ride your Cannondale...enjoy the fine welds...just refrain from crashing into a parked car when you're cycling distracted due rubbing your hands across the sultry frame seam welds.


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## Todd769 (Feb 21, 2009)

LMFAO....I have done just that looking down a few times to admire my CAAD9 and how ****ing sweet it looks in it's raw finish!!! Never hit anything yet!!!lol I'm not bashing I like that there are many brands to compete with each other then we get better bikes! I like the way the new S-works Allez looks great paint job just wish they could have went the extra mile and made the welds look better on such an expensive alu bike!


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## Todd769 (Feb 21, 2009)

PJ352 said:


> Fixed it. :wink5:


Really we both know the truth as to what the better bike is...Just go ride them both CAAD10 and Specialized Allez side by side. Caad looks and rides much better smoother and stiffer alot stiffer in the bottom bracket!!!


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## PJ352 (Dec 5, 2007)

Todd769 said:


> Really we both know the truth as to what the better bike is...Just go ride them both CAAD10 and Specialized Allez side by side. Caad looks and rides much better smoother and stiffer alot stiffer in the bottom bracket!!!


My ride of choice is Tarmac, but thanks for the thought. And speaking of thoughts, mine is that your posts read like ad copy. Oughta go write for C'dale.


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## PJ352 (Dec 5, 2007)

Typetwelve said:


> Why bash it? Like you said, it's a "lesser" bike. Not every car is a Ferrari.
> 
> I tried to explain things to you but you really don't want to hear it. If you don't care for a brand...fine. Coming on a forum to aimlessly bash something is a waste of time...and rather pointless.
> 
> ...


lol.. well put.


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## PJ352 (Dec 5, 2007)

headloss said:


> That weld is the strongest piece of metal on the bike... I'd be more worried about accidentally damaging the metal around the weld (the weakest piece of metal on the bike... unless reenforced as part of the building/butting process).


That's true, but a sub-par weld will likely fail prematurely. Whether at or around the weld doesn't matter much.


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## jsedlak (Jun 17, 2008)

This thread is so odd... I really didn't think there were such fanboys in the cycling world. Oh well... guess I better throw out my new allez!


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## Todd769 (Feb 21, 2009)

PJ352 said:


> That's true, but a sub-par weld will likely fail prematurely. Whether at or around the weld doesn't matter much.


Sorry but I know a few that have had there CAAD road frames for over 20 years and the nice smooth looking welds are just as flawless and strong as when the frame was new!!!


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## Todd769 (Feb 21, 2009)

jsedlak said:


> This thread is so odd... I really didn't think there were such fanboys in the cycling world. Oh well... guess I better throw out my new allez!


Don't do that just trade it in for what you should have gotten in the first place a CAAD10!!!


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## PlatyPius (Feb 1, 2009)

Todd769 said:


> Sorry but I know a few that have had there CAAD road frames for over 20 years and the nice smooth looking welds are just as flawless and strong as when the frame was new!!!


Dude, you're either completely brainless or a really good troll.

I also prefer Cannondale to Special-Ed. However, they DID earn the nickname "Crack-n-Fail" for a reason... Had nothing to with the welds; those remained strong and attractive looking.

Give the trolling a rest. It's funny the first few times. Then it's just annoying.


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## Todd769 (Feb 21, 2009)

PlatyPius said:


> Dude, you're either completely brainless or a really good troll.
> 
> I also prefer Cannondale to Special-Ed. However, they DID earn the nickname "Crack-n-Fail" for a reason... Had nothing to with the welds; those remained strong and attractive looking.
> 
> Give the trolling a rest. It's funny the first few times. Then it's just annoying.


Trolling I'm a bike fan love a nice bike does not matter what brand! Never heard about any cracking problems from a CAAD frame maybe just someone that has never owned one making **** up! And it is fare to compare diff brands and frames... People need to know if there getting ripped off by some bike brand making lower quality frames when the could get something much nicer for around the same price point!!!


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## Randy99CL (Mar 27, 2013)

Todd769 said:


> Trolling I'm a bike fan love a nice bike does not matter what brand! Never heard about any cracking problems from a CAAD frame maybe just someone that has never owned one making **** up! And it is fare to compare diff brands and frames... People need to know if there getting ripped off by some bike brand making lower quality frames when the could get something much nicer for around the same price point!!!


I'm puzzled that you've been on RBR for four years and just now decided to come out of your shell??

We are all aware of your opinion, thank you. I don't think you are convincing anyone of the quality of cannondale.

You're not really adding to anyone's level of knowledge here.

Maybe you should be out riding your bike instead. You are sounding like a troll.


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## PJ352 (Dec 5, 2007)

jsedlak said:


> This thread is so odd... I really didn't think there were such fanboys in the cycling world. Oh well... guess I better throw out my new allez!


Meh, not so odd. We had a similar situation a couple of months back where there was a Giant fan boy singing the praises. Plug in Giant everywhere Todd uses C'dale and you're pretty much reenacting..


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## PJ352 (Dec 5, 2007)

Todd769 said:


> Sorry but I know a few that have had there CAAD road frames for over 20 years and the nice smooth looking welds are just as flawless and strong as when the frame was new!!!


I wasn't referring to any particular brand/ model. My remarks could be applied to most any alloy frame material/ weld.

That said, your staunch defense of C'dale is notable, and consistent with what I believe are your motives.


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## PJ352 (Dec 5, 2007)

PlatyPius said:


> Dude, you're either completely brainless or a really good troll.


Both could be true. Just sayin'.. :wink5:


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## jonshonda (Oct 23, 2011)

PlatyPius said:


> Dude, you're either completely brainless or a really good troll.


He is not even a good troll. I am sure if you put both frames through the same stress testing, they would come out equal. In fact, the E5 hydroformed tubing on the Allez is a leap forward in technology. 

Also, ask any welder what a good weld should look like, and you are not going to find a single one who prides themselves on a baby-butt smooth weld. 

I am going to quit feeding the troll now.


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## RkFast (Dec 11, 2004)

Todd769 said:


> Nope just an average guy who loves bikes! I look at all of the brands and then compare what the have to offer. I just don;t think Specialized makes a nice of a bike as Cannondales!


Then take a hike and go buy a Cannondale.


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## RkFast (Dec 11, 2004)

Todd769 said:


> just wish they could have went the extra mile and made the welds look better on such an expensive alu bike!


You've said that. Six times already. Run along, please.


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## tednugent (Apr 26, 2010)

Todd769 trolling on Giant

Todd769 trolling on Jamis

.... the funny part of my superior smooth weld Cannondale CAADX.... it takes more effort to put the rear wheel onto the dropouts and have it centered correctly, compared to my Secteur, with un-sanded welds....


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## PJ352 (Dec 5, 2007)

Enjoyment said:


> Hmm, first post. I thought this was the Specialized forum????


Yes, it is. But first and foremost, it's a forum - _a medium for open discussion_ or voicing of ideas, such as a newspaper, a radio or television program, or a website.

If you keep that in mind every time you log in, you'll be fine. :wink5:


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