# Performance's/Forte Apollo?



## Ventruck (Mar 9, 2009)

New to me, and hopefully this isn't a repeat post (didn't come up on a search). What drew my attention is that it's already out of stock. Either that, or it's not available yet to begin with. Wonder if it will be more dependable than the Titan, especially with the greater spoke count.

Front: 
http://www.performancebike.com/bikes/Product_10052_10551_1081174_-1_400038_400002_400222

ACCESSORIES INCLUDED: None 
RIM WIDTH: 18.4mm 
COMPATIBILITY: NA 
HUB: Forté 
LACING PATTERN: 2-Cross 
RIM HEIGHT: 30mm 
SKEWERS INCLUDED: Yes 
SPACING: 100mm 
SPOKE COUNT: 20 
SPOKES: Stainless Steel 
TIRE SIZE: 700c 
TIRE TYPE: Clincher 
WEIGHT: 715g 

Rear:

http://www.performancebike.com/bikes/Product_10052_10551_1081176_-1_400038_400002_400222

ACCESSORIES INCLUDED: None 
RIM WIDTH: 18.4mm 
COMPATIBILITY: Shimano 8/9/10 
HUB: Forté 
LACING PATTERN: 2-Cross 
RIM HEIGHT: 30mm 
SKEWERS INCLUDED: Yes 
SPACING: 130mm 
SPOKE COUNT: 24 
SPOKES: Stainless Steel 
TIRE SIZE: 700c 
TIRE TYPE: Clincher 
WEIGHT: 935g 


The set is priced currently at ~$260. Total weight is 1650g - but doesn't specify if that's including skewers. Anyone know what these are based on? Hell, does anyone acutally have these already?


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## Ventruck (Mar 9, 2009)

long-time bump....anyone?


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## timbrown.net (Apr 26, 2010)

*Too soon to tell*

I picked up a set of these during double points weekend and had them shipped to store. One thing to note on the pricing, the catalog I received had the front and rear priced $20 and $30 lower than the web price. So once I did the web order, I called Performance and they credited my card $50 so I think the set cost me $259.98. 

I was riding Neuvation M28SL's before the Apollos. That said, there is no similarity between the M28 and the new wheel. The shape of the 30mm rim does not match anything I have seen in other shops and the hub uses a straight spoke design and I cannot find anything similar to it either. I did read somewhere else these might be Kinlin(??). I ended up installing some Forte Pro+ road tires and got a short first ride on them yesterday. I did not have any issues and thought overall they were very smooth. Compared to the M28's the weight is the same, but it felt like I had more weight around outer wheel. I started having truing issues with the rear M28 after I popped a spoke and more recently had a side wall blow out with some gatorskins that probably did not help things. I will true up the M28's again and the wife can have them if she wants.

The only thing I have noted with the Apollo wheels so far was during the rim tape install. It felt like there were a couple of spots on the edge of the rim that were a little rough. I grabbed a sanding sponge (320) and lightly buffed the areas until smooth. It probably would not have been an issue as it was toward the outside edge of the inner rim. Last time I was in the store, I checked some other Apollo wheels and there were a couple that seemed to have the same roughness. 

I will try to post back in a couple weeks and let you know how it's going.

Tim
http://www.timbrown.net/


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## Gevorg (Sep 18, 2006)

I was wondering about the same wheelset. Performance store in Dublin CA has them in stock. They are way different then Titan wheels (which were rebadged Neuvation M28).
I inspected the hub it looks similar to Shimano RS10 RS20, but Shimano hubs are 16/20 spokes, Forte hubs are 20/24 spokes. 
if anybody knows the OEM would help to determine the reliability of this wheelset, though with Satisfaction Guarantee from Performnce there is a little risk in getting this wheelset


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## Ventruck (Mar 9, 2009)

Gevorg said:


> They are way different then Titan wheels (which were rebadged Neuvation M28).


I know I read somewhere that the M28=/=Titan. Built in the same factory, but on different lines.

I'm curious to see if the Apollo will replace the Titan as the Titan's reputation isn't so much of solid amongst all owners, myself included.

Thanks for the peliminary notes Tim. I know someone else acknowledged these wheels on this board along the lines of "so far, so good", but also have yet to make out anything long-term. Would look forward to another report down the road if they last.


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## terbennett (Apr 1, 2006)

Gevorg said:


> They are way different then Titan wheels (which were rebadged Neuvation M28).


The M28 and Titan are similar but they are different wheels. The spoke design is similar but M28s have beefier spokes and the hub's are different as well. You have to look at both wheels side by side to tell the difference. I'm pretty sure they are made at the same factory but that's about it.


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## tthome (May 12, 2008)

I think the Forte' Apollo wheels are actually Novatec Speedy Wheels. If you look at the performance site you can see the Novatec name on the rim tape when zoomed in.

the look very similar and specs are very close.

http://www.bdopcycling.com/GroupBuys- Wheels Clincher.asp


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## timbrown.net (Apr 26, 2010)

Thanks. Great eye on the Novatec rim tape. Looking at the Apollo specs and the latest Novatec Speedy specs, I think the Apollo rear is version 1 of the Speedy. The v2 of the Speedy uses a larger alloy rear axle w/o needle bearing while their v1 used a cromo axle with the needle bearing and this matches Performance's web description of the Apollo rear wheel. It's interesting to note that Novatec rates them for riders <90Kg (198.5lbs).

As far my riding on the Apollos goes, I have done about 100 miles on them at this point and no issues. The 2 cross over pattern does seem to ride a little smoother than my old Neuvation M28sl's and the weight of the wheel sets are about the same. 

Here is a link to the Novatec Speedy product page: http://www.novatec.com.tw/novatec/english/p_show.php?sid=247 The page has several links to youtube videos for swapping hubs and a comparison of the v1 to the v2.

Tim


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## speco (May 17, 2010)

just got them to replace my current wheels from Performance in SF. They are having store anniversary sale with 10% off for the wheel set. ~$260 is still the final price after all the discounts (maybe they just raise the ad prices & do the discount?). :mad2: 

But still plan to fit them once I got everything ready. So far with close examinations, the wheels look solid & well built. I agree they resemble Novatec Speedy wheels very much. 

Here's a closer look: 
http://www.aliexpress.com/store/100...cle-Wheel-set-bicycle-parts-bicycle-bike.html


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## tthome (May 12, 2008)

Peformancebike has the Apollo wheelset combo for $279. I used the 20% off sale + the free shipping over $150 last week and was able to get the wheelset out the door for $224 + $12 oversized upcharge. Not to bad for $236. We'll see how they hold up.


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## Ventruck (Mar 9, 2009)

Kinda neglected this thread, but I still do have interest in how these wheels are.

tthome, thanks again for the note about the Novatec Speedy's.

Speco and Tim, thanks for the updates. Turns out I am looking at replacement wheels atm for when funds roll in. Been thinking about these and the Powerway Solohomer wheels which also have a 30mm rim, similar spoke count and price (when discounts are out of picture) but with bladed spokes. Said wheels look very intriguing, but it's hard to pass up the possible convenience of having the Apollos. So far I've only heard ~100-200mi reports of both wheels.


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## tthome (May 12, 2008)

I purchased the Apollo's simply because of the return policy at Performance. If I don't like the wheels I will return them and then get the PowerWay Solohomer. I plan to put the Apollo's on my Raleigh Competition Silver/Black carbon frame so they wheels should match the frame perfect along with the gray Lithion tires. The wheels I currently have on the Raleigh are Neuvation R28SL5's, very light. I will put those on another bike I'm building up. My thinking is try the Apollo's first, if I don't like them return them and get the Powerway wheels. I can't return the Powerway's to China if I don't like them. I think the Apollo's will work just fine. Should get them today or tomorrow. Plan to also remove the silver Forte' Apollo stickers as well.


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## tthome (May 12, 2008)

Here are a few close up pictures of the Forte Apollo's with and without the decals. I haven't even ridden these yet and I immediately took the decals off the rims and the hubs. The nice thing is that the finish on these wheels match the 2010 Ultegra Silver finish perfectly and it's nice that it matches the rest of 1 of my 4 steeds nicely. :thumbsup:


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## Ventruck (Mar 9, 2009)

tthome said:


> Here are a few close up pictures of the Forte Apollo's with and without the decals. I haven't even ridden these yet and I immediately took the decals off the rims and the hubs. The nice thing is that the finish on these wheels match the 2010 Ultegra Silver finish perfectly and it's nice that it matches the rest of 1 of my 4 steeds nicely. :thumbsup:


Thanks for the pics. Not to take away from black or carbon, but deep silver is nice for a change. :thumbsup:


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## tthome (May 12, 2008)

Ventruck said:


> Thanks for the pics. Not to take away from black or carbon, but deep silver is nice for a change. :thumbsup:


Thanks, the wheels that the Apollo's replaced went on this bike that I just built up yesterday. Haven't had a chance yet to ride either the new Apollo's or the new build.

http://forums.roadbikereview.com/showpost.php?p=2794510&postcount=889


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## Ventruck (Mar 9, 2009)

90% sure I'm pulling the trigger tomorrow. Solohomers were swaying me because they were distinct and had more exact colors I wanted, but the warranty of Performance just can't be outweighed. Might be out the whole day before I can take decent pics, but whenever/if possible, I'll post.


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## frpax (Feb 13, 2010)

I've got an old set of Titans that I really like. They're a tad heavy, but I'm not a weight weenie...

I think that the Apollo's would be an awesome set of wheels, and even more awesome simply due to how affordable they are!


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## Ventruck (Mar 9, 2009)

*...And I got a set (update):*

As said, I ended up being busy the whole day, only leaving me with time to swap the wheels in and do a 0.6 mile test ride tonight.

Like said by others, the finish seems pretty well done. Came out the rack true and smooth, and mounting 25c Conti GP4000's was total pie. Also found that the Apollos were darker in person. Maybe it's because the previous photos were taken with flash and brighter lighting. No problem, as it's closer to matching my bar tape. Kept the logos because I'm lazy and regardless, the wheels look good.  

Test ride had me find that the hub isn't the quietest thing in the world. Nonetheless it has a hole for lubrication which I can investigate later. Coming from ~1900g worth of a Mavic Aksium Front and Shimano WH-R500 rear, it's too soon to make out any improvement in any regard. Likely to be attacking a rough hill this week, making for a decent test.

__________________________________________________________________________

Did my morning 20 mile ride. Brakes are feeling good and there's an overall solid feeling. I keep hearing some sound similar to the rim rubbing the brake pads, but visually, there is no sign of that. This is only happening at higher speeds, so I'm assuming it's to do with the wind/passing air. Just...sounds weird to me, just as my chain when bouncing literally sounds like cable housings knocking on carbon fiber. Also want to to acknowledge that I didn't find the imperfections TimBrown had around the edge of the rim. 

It's a solid item so far, and I had myself grinning a few times despite them being "plain ol' Forte" wheels.


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## tthome (May 12, 2008)

I've had a chance to put a few miles on the Apollo's. I've done two rides of 35 miles and 45miles and have to say that from the very short usage on them so far I'm very pleased. This obviously won't be a long term evaluation, but from the short time I've ridden them so far so good. Very good value for the $220'ish I paid for them. They're only about 150g heavier than my previous wheels which were Neuvations. I ride with a guy who has me by about 30lbs (I'm 165lbs) and rides much more expensive Fulcrum Racing 3's...I easily keep up with him while coasting on descents and actuallly slowly pass him as well without any draft help. I know my comments aren't technical, but real world descriptions. All things considered. For the $220'ish I paid vs his $600+ he paid, I'll keep the $400 difference in my pocket thank you. The freehub is a little louder than other wheelsets I own, but then again it's not any louder than most. I would definitely recommend these wheels to anyone looking for a solid, quality, value based training or everyday wheel.


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## Ventruck (Mar 9, 2009)

~80 miles, and spent the last 3 days with my previously-said rough hill visits. I also can't make out much beyond feel. They're taking well to bumps and feeling solid in cornering - yet to be knocked out of true. My previous wheelset isn't a notable comparison, but the Apollo's have nice feedback characteristics - smooth but not numb. As for aero remarks, I'm not finding any downsides or benefits. I just see the deep rim serving as a durability factor and nothing more. I've heard of Forte skewers being a bit cheap, but the supplied ones aren't bringing complaints. In fact, zero complaints for the wheelset in general. So far it's just a simple set it and forget it deal. Does the job of rolling and not asploding. Don't have high expectations beyond that, like pigs flying out of my ears.

Current verdict is simply solid choice, and something to strongly consider when heavy discounts are available. Still only been 80 miles, but I can't imagine how something can go wrong with the design. Wheels came from the shop well-tensioned unlike the Titans. Performance's life line of a warranty will probably keep me satisfied as long as I can get 1-2k mi on this set. Would honestly say though that I'm unsure of 180+lb riders expecting this to last. 20F/24R spoke counts aren't going to be solid for everyone.


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## Ventruck (Mar 9, 2009)

*Guess that warranty is going to be made use of already:*

But not the biggest deal in the world. Seems I have a defective front wheel braking surface, shredding upon contact with brake pads. Pics show markings that aren't dirt, but actual rim surface wear; second pic is debris from that surface - part of it already cleaned up and notably silver in person. A lot of it was in my front brake.

I'll admit to noticing not 100% (but literally 99%) perfect braking out the box, but I didn't notice anything through a preliminary visual check-up. Seems after going down some descents for ~300mi, that imperfection became increasingly more prominent.

I say "defect" because my rear has not shown anything. In fact, I swapped in new brake pads to test things, and my front ate both. There was surely nothing wrong with the first set of pads as my previous wheel never gave them trouble at all. The current pads on the rear are as old as those previous pads, and still working great - albeit on another end of the bike.


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## harry2110 (Feb 27, 2010)

Ventruck said:


> Kinda neglected this thread, but I still do have interest in how these wheels are.
> 
> tthome, thanks again for the note about the Novatec Speedy's.
> 
> Speco and Tim, thanks for the updates. Turns out I am looking at replacement wheels atm for when funds roll in. Been thinking about these and the Powerway Solohomer wheels which also have a 30mm rim, similar spoke count and price (when discounts are out of picture) but with bladed spokes. Said wheels look very intriguing, but it's hard to pass up the possible convenience of having the Apollos. So far I've only heard ~100-200mi reports of both wheels.


Ill fix that as I have put over 2k on mine and love them so far. I have had zero issues with truing so far. They ride better than my mavic equpie and roll forever the bearings feel 4 times as smooth. Ill have to post a picture with them on my bike as that gunmetal grey was a perfect color to acsent the kestrel writing on my bike as being not painted black looks wrong as the frame is really very dark grey. The wheels do have some flex to them but I think that adds to the comfort of the ride.


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## Opus51569 (Jul 21, 2009)

Ventruck: I'm curious whether there will be a problem exchanging the wheel or if they will claim the surface issue was caused by "wear and tear" rather than a manufacturers defect. Please post an update if you get a chance.


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## crossracer (Jun 21, 2004)

Performance = 100% happiness. He will get a new rim or his money back, no questions asked. And i love my titans, they have run and run and run forever. These wheels look great also, but i had just got a new set of axionms form mavic so i had to pass on the apollos.

Bill


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## Ventruck (Mar 9, 2009)

Opus51569 said:


> Ventruck: I'm curious whether there will be a problem exchanging the wheel or if they will claim the surface issue was caused by "wear and tear" rather than a manufacturers defect. Please post an update if you get a chance.


Yes, I did make a quick thread at the lounge confirming how their policy went (this will somewhat be a cross-post). They weren't skeptical, but were hesitant to just let me go with another wheel - asking me to instead bring the whole bike in at first to investigate my brake setup (C'mon...seriously?). 

In the end they gave me the wheel so I shouldn't complain. I was still within the 90 days, and I did give them my story emphasizing that even the second set of fresh pads started to go bad. Maybe it was just that chain, but I walked out the shop feeling a bit uneasy about what would've happened without the receipt or being within 90 days of the purchase. Also just caught off-guard with all the 'success' stories I've heard.

Not to dwell or overreact, but I'm a little 'wtf' about the questioning of how I setup my brakes. It's literally a no-brainer for anyone to have the pads set so they simply hit the braking surface, and lack of toe-in doesn't do such damage. That's not to say I was careless about my setup. I carefully toe'd and positioned for virtually 100% equal contact timing on both sides. 

Right now, I have the wheel all set and mounted. I do hear some inconsistency with the machining profile when I squeeze the brake lever to feather the brakes, but nothing I can see on the machining surface. Hopefully I'll be able to see what happens tomorrow on an actual ride. Odds are, I'm going to go that extra mile to get the most rim-friendly pads for the job. ATM, I swapped my current rear pads (like, the only surely-good pads left over) to the front. I won't take risks in case the debris from the previous rim is embedded in what was my current front pads - so I'll go rear 'brakeless' until I pick up a new set altogether. 

tl;dr: That visit didn't necessarily go "no questions asked".


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## Opus51569 (Jul 21, 2009)

Thanks for the update, Ventruck. I must have missed it in the Lounge. FWIW, when you're in for new brake pads, I highly recommend the Kool Stop salmons.


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## Ventruck (Mar 9, 2009)

Opus51569 said:


> Thanks for the update, Ventruck. I must have missed it in the Lounge. FWIW, when you're in for new brake pads, I highly recommend the Kool Stop salmons.


No problem.

Another update (already): New wheel didn't show any similar signs of such an issue coming up - in fact it was dead quiet. All the imperfection I mentioned in the previous post seemed to not mean anything. Dead quiet, and smooth.

But funnily enough, I ended up having that wheel's tube/tire blowout on a descent this morning. Knocked a bit out of true but hopefully nothing rim-damaging (I just got the damn thing replaced! ha). Worked at the truing stand and will probably ride again late afternoon or tomorrow to see how that turns out. Didn't find myself with much of a job.


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## AllezCat (Jun 2, 2006)

Ventruck: I understand that you had a bit of a wtf about the shop asking for you to bring the bike in. I would chalk that up to the shop wanting to know wtf happened with the wheel. I would want to know what would be causing the problem since the Apollos are still pretty "new" on the market
Performance will honor price match for 90 days and 100% satisfaction forever.....


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## rruff (Feb 28, 2006)

Opus51569 said:


> FWIW, when you're in for new brake pads, I highly recommend the Kool Stop salmons.


Yep...


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## davidka (Dec 12, 2001)

Ventruck said:


> Not to dwell or overreact, but I'm a little 'wtf' about the questioning of how I setup my brakes. It's literally a no-brainer for anyone to have the pads set so they simply hit the braking surface, and lack of toe-in doesn't do such damage. That's not to say I was careless about my setup. I carefully toe'd and positioned for virtually 100% equal contact timing on both sides.


Not having been there I don't know what their intention was but as a store manager I would've made the same request but not as a question of your competence but rather to see if the pads were collecting brake dust (as in the photos) and investigate any possible means to prevent it from happening again. Some rims slough aluminum off faster than others and some pads retain it more, creating those shards in the pads. Nobody's fault, just something to check for.

Good to hear of a nice wheelset that doesn't break the bank. The wheel market has gotten a little out of hand.


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## tthome (May 12, 2008)

Have a little over 200+ on these wheels, so far so good compared to my other pricier wheels. Great value especially if you can buy them while 20% off on the wheelset. The stickers remove easily and the gunmetal finish matches the 2010 Shimano drivetrain finish perfectly.


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## Gevorg (Sep 18, 2006)

*Update after 700 miles*

My update.
I bought Apollo's as a cost sensitive replacement to Ksyrium Es (which had rim cracks after 15Kmiles). I got 6 flats in very short period of time. Long story short found a small burr on the rim joint, that was defeating rim tape, so used some sandpaper and flats went away for now. I rode this wheels on heavy climbs including Death Ride and multiple climbs on Mt.Diablo, so far I have hard time telling any difference in terms of performance, but again I could not tell a difference between Equipe and Es and Elites either. I tightened one loose spoke in the rear after 250 miles and that is about it. Hub is noisy but very similar to Mavic. I was wondering if they have another version of the wheel with bladed spokes. I also removed the ugly decals and cleaned the surface with IPA. I get some weird squeaks when I am braking at high speeds above 30 MPH once in a while, but bike feels very stable at 50MPH downhill's.
If wheel goes no problem for another 2Kmiles then it will be better then the following wheel sets that never made it to 3200 mile mark on my bikes:
Neauvation M28, Bontrager Race, Bontrager Select, Bontrager X-lite, Forte Titan.


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## Opus51569 (Jul 21, 2009)

I'm curious when you say "never made it" whether you're talking about a failure of some kind or simply needing to be trued.


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## Gevorg (Sep 18, 2006)

"Never made it" means broken/cracked rim, multiple broken spokes, failed bearings, broken freewheel.


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## Ventruck (Mar 9, 2009)

Gevorg said:


> My update.
> I get some weird squeaks when I am braking at high speeds above 30 MPH once in a while, but bike feels very stable at 50MPH downhill's.


Same here, at times. Running with Kool Stop Salmons, but there seems to be no visible damage after inspection. So all is good.

I'm probably around the 700mi mark as well. Wheels have been great. I've been abusing them on a rough downhill (same as the one I previously mentioned) literally every day, and they inevitably ask to be trued. Still, the "job" is very easy to do, and odds are someone else would true them less frequently if they weren't as anal as I am about borderline-perfect trueness.


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## Ventruck (Mar 9, 2009)

*Braking surface problem, again.*

Well, this time, I can put the blame more on myself as I was riding in pretty foul weather. Same exact problem so the pictures will make for a deja vu moment.

I will go to Performance again to see if I can get a replacement, but for now, I swapped in my proven (4.5year-old) Mavic Aksium. Maybe I'm being a bit biased, but I consider the Apollo's a bit "delicate" in this regard. I've run this Aksium in bad weather to never come home wish such an issue, and even went out for a test ride upon swapping. Braking performance from the get-go is so much better than I've ever experienced with the Apollos using the same (new to me) Koolstop Salmons. 

Odd note: the exact place my Apollo's braking surface is roughed up is where Mavic places their wear-indicator/channel.  

Is that to say I think the Apollo as a front wheel is worthless? No. I still stand by it being solid, a great deal, very self-serviceable, and have zero regrets purchasing it. It apparently just isn't perfect. At this price, I can't complain. Definitely still getting more than I paid for imo.


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## Opus51569 (Jul 21, 2009)

Thanks for the update, Ventruck. I'll be curious to see if Performance has any issues with the replacement now that you have more miles on the rim.


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## campLo (Jul 24, 2008)

they are in stock and have a 15% off code


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## Gevorg (Sep 18, 2006)

*Another update after 1000 miles*

During the ride today bike felt a bit unstable when I was getting out of saddle and on downhills at speeds above 28MPH, found two more loose spokes on rear wheel, interesting enough wheel was true but will flex a bit under torque or at high speed. Also there is a small play in rear wheel not sure if it was due to spokes or bearings already worn out. 
I also followed video from Novatec website and added grease to the freewheel and now it is dead quiet.
I will test later regarding small play in rear, and see if that is noticebale during the ride or just loose spokes were the issue.
In general I am still not sure about the purchase


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## Ventruck (Mar 9, 2009)

Gevorg said:


> During the ride today bike felt a bit unstable when I was getting out of saddle and on downhills at speeds above 28MPH, found two more loose spokes on rear wheel, interesting enough wheel was true but will flex a bit under torque or at high speed. Also there is a small play in rear wheel not sure if it was due to spokes or bearings already worn out.


I have no rear issues, but sometimes I did feel "numb" in corners compared to when having my Aksium on the front. That could be all in my head, though, as I suffered blowouts on descents when using these wheels (but road quality is the actual fault here).

I'm working entirely based off assumption here, but I wouldn't be surprised if it was a QC thing as these wheels come at a light price, or if it was the spokes. IIRC, Performance relied on cheaper quality spokes for their Titan as well. 

Looking to go to Performance on Thursday to attempt getting replacement front and still use it as my main wheel - just to be swapped out on rainy days.


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## Gevorg (Sep 18, 2006)

*My last update after 1100 miles*

So little play in rear wheel quickly developed into a big play about 2.5 mm, took wheels to Performance to check them out. according to Novatec their Speedy wheels have 200lbs limit, and after 1000 km they will need to retention the spokes. so technician checked the bearings, retentioned the spokes and after 50 miles play came back. I took the wheels back to Perfomance for return, we tried pair of new ones and they had 1.5mm play in them to begin with, I guess it is matter of time before that one will change to 2.5 mm play and you will feel it when climbing or riding fast at 25MPH. 
My summary will be this.
probably a good wheelset for someone under 180lbs but definitely not foor 200lbs or above, light and aero, good service at Performance. there is some design flow that rear wheel develops play at heavy loads that can not be fixed, mechanic thinks it is combination of straight pull round spokes and short anchoring at the hub, or anchoring points are not designed for round spokes, and cost cutting measure going from bladed Speedy to round Apollo spokes backfired with wheel not being stiff.
Also I noticed that my brake pads got worn out/clogged more then with other rims, maybe there is some roughness on the the rim that is not as smoth as it can be.
Can I recommend it? Probably not, but with excellent return policy and customer service at performance trying them is very low risk


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## Ventruck (Mar 9, 2009)

*Sorry for jumping on most posts in this thread.*



Gevorg said:


> Also I noticed that my brake pads got worn out/clogged more then with other rims, maybe there is some roughness on the the rim that is not as smoth as it can be.


Finally, someone besides me who notices something about the brakes! But my issue goes both ways. In photos found in an earlier section of this thread, both the rim surface and pads suffered. This happened twice in the front, although I was quick to "stop the bleeding" the second time around, somewhat saving my pads. Noticed recently that stringy bits of the pad are wearing off.

I haven't returned my (second) front yet. Sorry if anyone's waiting to hear on how Performance handles that. Getting some loose change together to make a "bigger" overall trip.


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## swlightn (Oct 1, 2008)

Gevorg said:


> So little play in rear wheel quickly developed into a big play about 2.5 mm, took wheels to Performance to check them out. according to Novatec their Speedy wheels have 200lbs limit, and after 1000 km they will need to retention the spokes. so technician checked the bearings, retentioned the spokes and after 50 miles play came back. I took the wheels back to Perfomance for return, we tried pair of new ones and they had 1.5mm play in them to begin with, I guess it is matter of time before that one will change to 2.5 mm play and you will feel it when climbing or riding fast at 25MPH.
> My summary will be this.
> probably a good wheelset for someone under 180lbs but definitely not foor 200lbs or above, light and aero, good service at Performance. there is some design flow that rear wheel develops play at heavy loads that can not be fixed, mechanic thinks it is combination of straight pull round spokes and short anchoring at the hub, or anchoring points are not designed for round spokes, and cost cutting measure going from bladed Speedy to round Apollo spokes backfired with wheel not being stiff.
> Also I noticed that my brake pads got worn out/clogged more then with other rims, maybe there is some roughness on the the rim that is not as smoth as it can be.
> Can I recommend it? Probably not, but with excellent return policy and customer service at performance trying them is very low risk



Hi, Gevorg

Based on your comment, event the new rear wheel has 1.5mm play, right?
I also checked my rear wheel and I also notice that.

I'm only 130lb and I noticed this after 1000 mile riding.
I'm not sure it was already there or genereated during riding.

Spoke tention is fine and I haven't feel any problem during riding.

But, this play looks like a bearing problem.

Is there any other one who notice the play of the rear wheel?



Is there any other one to notice pl


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## Gevorg (Sep 18, 2006)

play is always there even with new wheels, bearings checked out OK, just stopped at Performance the other day and technician said they discontinued the Appolo due to high rate of returns. I returned mine 4 month ago and bought Mavic Ksyrium Equipe on sale for $260 and after 2000 miles no problem wiith Equippes


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## swlightn (Oct 1, 2008)

Gevorg said:


> play is always there even with new wheels, bearings checked out OK, just stopped at Performance the other day and technician said they discontinued the Appolo due to high rate of returns. I returned mine 4 month ago and bought Mavic Ksyrium Equipe on sale for $260 and after 2000 miles no problem wiith Equippes



Thanks for the comment, Gevorg

I checked this wheel yesterday once again.

It looks like there is 1.5mm play in my wheel, too.
I disassembled rear hub and found this play is coming from the bearing.

I still has no problem using this wheel, but if the play is increased, I also have to think about return.

I'm sorry to hear that Performance decided to discontinue.


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## Ventruck (Mar 9, 2009)

Gevorg said:


> play is always there even with new wheels, bearings checked out OK, just stopped at Performance the other day and technician said they discontinued the Appolo due to high rate of returns. I returned mine 4 month ago and bought Mavic Ksyrium Equipe on sale for $260 and after 2000 miles no problem wiith Equippes


1) Hope the discontinuation is meant for a revision. Tbh, a 24/28 spoke version (with better build quality) would be more popular. Conceptually, it was ideal as the budget version of the popular Kinlin build recommendations here. I wonder how returns or replacements are handled now

2) Surprisingly, my rear Apollo is doing great. It does **** a lot when it comes to wet braking now. But no play, nothing out of true since summer. The front was the real problem for me.

3) No disrespect to Performance, but I'd totally take Kysriums over these for that price.


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## tthome (May 12, 2008)

Forutnately I've had some good luck with my Apollo's. The bike they're are currently on (see page 1 of this thread) is not my primary bike so I don't have tons of miles on it, but so far so good. They roll smooth, brake smooth and so far have been true. The only thing that is weird is that the front wheels tends to cause some tire marks on the inside of the fork but I've changed wheels just to see if maybe there was some flex. I had the same results on some other wheels so it's probably the fork itself as the wheels doesn't quit hit dead center, so can't blame the wheels.

For the money these seem good. I'm surprised that if Performance bike are discontiuing these due to returns that more people would be putting negative reviews on their website. PB doesn't filter negative reviews I hope. Also I would think that there would be more information on these wheels. The Kinlin rims are good quality and these are basically Novatec Speedy rims and they have good reviews. I'm keeping mine, they match the bike and that's just a bonus, but in the end they roll smooth, no extra flex than my other wheels and I got them for well under $230. I'm happy with them and plan to keep them.


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## harry2110 (Feb 27, 2010)

I really liked the wheelset and still ride it current even that my other wheels are equipes becuase the wheel is soooo much more comfortable to just ride around without being beaten to death. Currently I do have that flex and Im going to adjust the spokes if the bearings act up I may look into replacement of the bearings with better ones or just change the hub out and use bladed spokes. The only way im going to be switching is to go tubless on the ztr rims. Im only 170 including my locks,3l of water, pumps, tubes, electronic.


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## ptadam22 (Sep 22, 2010)

Any of the previous posters have anything to add about these wheels as it's been a half year. I'm looking to get some of these from the money I get back from my bike purchase. Would these be an improvement over ALX200 wheels?


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## Ventruck (Mar 9, 2009)

ptadam22 said:


> Any of the previous posters have anything to add about these wheels as it's been a half year. I'm looking to get some of these from the money I get back from my bike purchase. Would these be an improvement over ALX200 wheels?


To the question, likely no - at least nothing mind-blowing of an improvement.

My set still lives. I only use the rear, which unlike most others' experiences, has been incredibly solid as I note in a previous post. I could use the front, but I just don't like the feel in descending compared to my Mavic Aksium. I can't say the front Apollo is flexy, but it just doesn't feel so great imo.

I'm lost to what the situation of the Apollos are. Word got out that they'd be discontinued, yet both nearby Performance stores are carrying them and the site says they're expecting to stock up on rears again in May.


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## Gevorg (Sep 18, 2006)

*competition is better*



Ventruck said:


> To the question, likely no - at least nothing mind-blowing of an improvement.
> 
> My set still lives. I only use the rear, which unlike most others' experiences, has been incredibly solid as I note in a previous post. I could use the front, but I just don't like the feel in descending compared to my Mavic Aksium. I can't say the front Apollo is flexy, but it just doesn't feel so great imo.
> 
> I'm lost to what the situation of the Apollos are. Word got out that they'd be discontinued, yet both nearby Performance stores are carrying them and the site says they're expecting to stock up on rears again in May.


I was at performance today and saw Apollo set for sale for $270 a pair, then I noticed that rear wheel had a rim tape on it and slight wear on the rim, so I am assuming it was a return or test wheel.
In my opinion these wheelset looks good but I yet to see a single person that is completely happy with it. 
below are the shorcomings
1. brake surface is not pad friendly
2. Play from rear wheel can not be eliminated, wheel is not stiff, still not sure if it is bearings or spokes
3. Rim quality is low, mine had burrs and cause random flats
4. at $270 price level competition is much better


Like some Vuelta below $109-$300 depending on weight, chekout Vuleta pro superlight for $300
http://bikeisland.com/cgi-bin/BKTK_STOR20.cgi?Action=Details&ProdID=1450
http://bikeisland.com/cgi-bin/BKTK_STOR20.cgi?Action=Details&ProdID=1443
http://bikeisland.com/cgi-bin/BKTK_...in/BKTK_STOR20.cgi?Action=Details&ProdID=1827

Or shimano $150-300
http://www.rei.com/product/769228
http://www.cambriabike.com/shopexd.asp?Item=100044793
http://www.pricepoint.com/detail/19341-365_SHIR59-3-Parts-75-Wheelsets/Shimano-WH-R500-Wheelset.htm

Or fulcrum racing
http://www.nashbar.com/bikes/Product_10053_10052_506987_-1_202695_10000_202350

or Mavic aksium or equipe or if you want aero the cosmic elite
http://www.amazon.com/Mavic-MAVIC-AKSIUM-WHEELSET-BLACK/dp/B001IECVCW
http://www.totalcycling.com/index.php/product/WH_MAVIC_COSMIC_ELITE.html?action=currency&id=USD


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## shotokun16 (Apr 14, 2011)

Well i just purchased the wheel set for $237.19 (including sales tax) and it looks brand new. There was a 15% thing going and i pulled the trigger. Ill see how these last. Going to install some brand spanking new Continental GP 4000s 23c. I weigh around 172-175 and yay lets see how they go on my Scattante R-330.

(replacing my Alex Rims R300)


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## Ventruck (Mar 9, 2009)

Might be approaching a moment of truth. Slight - but noticeable compared to before - play in the rear.The bearings are also due for a service (likely not necessarily replacement) but I haven't jumped on it just yet. Has anyone serviced the rear? 

I saw the vid for replacing the Novatec Speedy V1's these are presumably based on:





I likely don't have to go so far to pop the bearings off and just do a superficial cleaning - or would I? I just called Performance and they don't seem to be familiar with re-installation where I'd get stuck because I don't have the rollers and shaft (or any ideal makeshift items). If I just pop the freehub and clean, it does seem like pie and a worthwhile shot.


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## Ventruck (Mar 9, 2009)

*3 weeks later...*

Opened this no-brainer of a hub and cleaned it out. The freehub was 2 bearings, one of which was still rough. I couldn't access the inner bearing even with a hammer+punch. Any harder and I was guessing I'd start making things worse. But in essence, the wheel has been lasting well. Since last year when I purchased it, the wheel's been great in staying true, solid and all. It was just given wear. I'm on roads that aren't smooth and ride in ugly weather at times at that so it could also be a given that I accelerated that wear. 

I requested a freehub body (even buy it if the price wasn't much) as getting a new wheel wasn't necessary, but they don't supply it period - even through order - so I was offered a wheel exchange. In short they stuck with that offer so I ultimately can't complain. 

Some nitpicking I'd mention:
-Opening the hub (surprise!) would void the warranty, but the store wrench understood that a self-service was ridiculously easily to attempt. 
-If it (which was essentially bearing wear) happened again, I should "get a higher level wheel". I'm not sure what to think of that. I mean it's not like the bearing sucked, just wore down.


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## bradXism (May 10, 2011)

This is an old thread but I will post this for future readers. I just received my Apollos and measured them against my brothers KinLin 300's...they match within the margin of error from the Vernier micrometer. Dead on true and round...more later.


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## harry2110 (Feb 27, 2010)

Ventruck said:


> Opened this no-brainer of a hub and cleaned it out. The freehub was 2 bearings, one of which was still rough. I couldn't access the inner bearing even with a hammer+punch. Any harder and I was guessing I'd start making things worse. But in essence, the wheel has been lasting well. Since last year when I purchased it, the wheel's been great in staying true, solid and all. It was just given wear. I'm on roads that aren't smooth and ride in ugly weather at times at that so it could also be a given that I accelerated that wear.
> 
> I requested a freehub body (even buy it if the price wasn't much) as getting a new wheel wasn't necessary, but they don't supply it period - even through order - so I was offered a wheel exchange. In short they stuck with that offer so I ultimately can't complain.
> 
> ...


Sorry about the resurection but I now am having a issue with my rear.

What wheelset did they offer you as I havent been able to get back to preformance since may and my rear wheel now has over 2mm of play that isnt knocking like in the bearings plus a creaking under load.


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## Ventruck (Mar 9, 2009)

harry2110 said:


> Sorry about the resurection but I now am having a issue with my rear.
> 
> What wheelset did they offer you as I havent been able to get back to preformance since may and my rear wheel now has over 2mm of play that isnt knocking like in the bearings plus a creaking under load.


They gave me a replacement rear Apollo wheel. Rode that for the summer and even then I never had the play mentioned by anyone here. I'm trying to imagine where it would be as I look back on opening the rear hub on the previous wheel. Bearing/hub interfaces were perfectly fine. Only thing I'd note is the deep freehub bearing was a bit rough (which I was hoping to replace in the first place), but no creaking when I rode on it. If you're confident about it, I'd bump up spoke tension a bit and see what happens. 

If you find it to be a bearing issue (easy to open the hub), well...try to ask Performance for one and see if they'll guilt trip you over ultimately handing you a replacement wheel as they fail to stand behind their own product. (probably the only real problem this set has ever given me)


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## harry2110 (Feb 27, 2010)

Ventruck said:


> They gave me a replacement rear Apollo wheel. Rode that for the summer and even then I never had the play mentioned by anyone here. I'm trying to imagine where it would be as I look back on opening the rear hub on the previous wheel. Bearing/hub interfaces were perfectly fine. Only thing I'd note is the deep freehub bearing was a bit rough (which I was hoping to replace in the first place), but no creaking when I rode on it. If you're confident about it, I'd bump up spoke tension a bit and see what happens.
> 
> If you find it to be a bearing issue (easy to open the hub), well...try to ask Performance for one and see if they'll guilt trip you over ultimately handing you a replacement wheel as they fail to stand behind their own product. (probably the only real problem this set has ever given me)


Oh so they still have them I thought they were discontinued. I do like the wheels and otherwise besides the knock it would be perfect. The rim does move over 2mm side to side but this is different as it goes a little further. I never noticed the rim wobble much but i do the knock.


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## bradXism (May 10, 2011)

BDOP cycling has the bearings for these. These wheels are an earlier model of their Novatec Speedy. 

I bought a pair of Apollos this summer and was so impressed with the hubs that I have starting using them to build up wheelsets.


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## harry2110 (Feb 27, 2010)

bradXism said:


> BDOP cycling has the bearings for these. These wheels are an earlier model of their Novatec Speedy.
> 
> I bought a pair of Apollos this summer and was so impressed with the hubs that I have starting using them to build up wheelsets.


Which novatec hubs are these? Also do you have weights for just the hubs by chance


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## bradXism (May 10, 2011)

I couldn't find a straight pull hub other than a bicycle industry trade mag. Novatec 2011 - Hubs The hub is different now in that it has the straight pull spoke, with the threads on each end, on the drive side.. The hub was on both models of the Novatec speedy's and the Apollo. They are the only Novatec that has the straight spoke hub. All of the Novatec hubs have the same bearings, they do have different pawls and freehub bodies but they have them available. If you contact BDOP.com he might have access to that exact hub or a newer straight pull spoke. BDop Cycling. The real problem might be getting the spokes.


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## byknutz (Sep 4, 2012)

Cool thread on the Apollo`s. I have a set with about 300 mi on them. The other day I rode 60 and a spoke broke about 7 mi to the shop. After a quick truing I rode 97 the next day. These wheels were so cheep I went Dr Frankenstein on them and drilled between nipple holes to lighten them up. For a rain wheel and fast group rides and they are light and fast. I weigh 180 and I thrash on these things..... I totally dig my Apollo Dr Franken wheels. With the drilling I did and the spoke breaking they are still amazingly true.


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