# Antiseize? Grease?



## MattintheCrown (Jul 6, 2011)

I'm going to be doing a bit of bike assembly here in the next week or so, and I was wondering what everyone's thoughts were grease/antisieze. Can I get away with using standard grease in most circumstances? And if I need antisieze, can I use automotive antisieze, or is there need for a bike-specific product?


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## tihsepa (Nov 27, 2008)

MattintheCrown said:


> I'm going to be doing a bit of bike assembly here in the next week or so, and I was wondering what everyone's thoughts were grease/antisieze. Can I get away with using standard grease in most circumstances? And if I need antisieze, can I use automotive antisieze, or is there need for a bike-specific product?


There really isnt even "bike specific" grease. That being said I use Phil Wood grease on everything and have never had a problem. I do disassemble anually, clean and relube.


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## MattintheCrown (Jul 6, 2011)

tihsepa said:


> There really isnt even "bike specific" grease. That being said I use Phil Wood grease on everything and have never had a problem. I do disassemble anually, clean and relube.


Good. Phil Wood grease, I have.


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## DrSmile (Jul 22, 2006)

If you have alien sweat like me grease won't cut it. I use Nickel antiseize on most threads, especially for Ti stuff. Even with antiseize I usually have to use taps and dies on most bolts at the end of the season. It's impossible to wipe down the bolts that corrode on me after every ride, for example I had to replace the lever clamp bolts with Ti.


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## the mayor (Jul 8, 2004)

I agree with drsmile.
Go to the local auto parts store and pick up some anitsieze. A $10 bottle will last you a life time.....and will save your life when you have to remove bolts. It is also the best for b/b threads....keeps them quiet.


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## Mike T. (Feb 3, 2004)

There are *no* special bike lubes. They're all just re-packaged something or other. Anti-sieze is made especially for lubing threads. Greases or oils, while ok for threads, are adapted from other applications. I'm with the mayor on this - I'm still using the same small tin of Permatex Anti-Sieze that I've had for years - close to 40.


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## tihsepa (Nov 27, 2008)

FYI, antiseize is basicly oil with Aluminum powder and graphite added in. Please make a note, it is a compound NOT a lubricant.

It however is good stuff if thats what you like to use.

http://www.ifa.hawaii.edu/instr-shop/MSDS/Permatex Anti-Seize.pdf

Grease however is oil with a clay or soap base to keep it in place and IS a lubricant.


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## Mike T. (Feb 3, 2004)

tihsepa said:


> FYI, antiseize is basicly thined out grease with Aluminum powder and graphite added in. Please make a note, it is a compound NOT a lubricant.


That's why it's called anti-sieze *compound* on the tin. The zinc or copper, between the threads, don't go away.


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## tihsepa (Nov 27, 2008)

Mike T. said:


> That's why it's called anti-sieze *compound* on the tin. The zinc or copper, between the threads, don't go away.


I have seen it mistaken for lube. Alot.

I teach this stuff every day, all day. You would be suprised what people will do.


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## Mike T. (Feb 3, 2004)

tihsepa said:


> I have seen it mistaken for lube.


See what *they* call it. See what *they* list it under. 

http://www.permatex.com/products/Automotive/lubricants/specialty_lubricants.htm


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## tihsepa (Nov 27, 2008)

Mike T. said:


> See what *they* call it. See what *they* list it under.
> 
> http://www.permatex.com/products/Automotive/lubricants/specialty_lubricants.htm


Its your bike man. Have at it.


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## the mayor (Jul 8, 2004)

tihsepa said:


> You would be suprised what people will do.


No...I wouldn't be surprised. 
Hell...just read some of the threads here....


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## Mike T. (Feb 3, 2004)

the mayor said:


> Hell...just read some of the threads here....


Took the words outta my mouth; so ya did.


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## tihsepa (Nov 27, 2008)

Heres how it goes with me.

This dialog is between two students after damaging the threads on a 22mm lug shank.

1- Hey man, this lug nut is going on all messed up.

2- You dummy! Mr. B said to put antiseize on the lugs. Put that sh1t down and go get some.

1- Here man. The antiseize.

2- Well you f'ed it up take it back off and put that stuff on there!

1- ok.

1- ( with antiseize everywhere on his pants, shirt and face.) its still screwed up!

2- you dumba$$. I am going to the jon. You better have this fixed by the time I get back!



And you see my point?


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## MattintheCrown (Jul 6, 2011)

Mike T. said:


> There are *no* special bike lubes. They're all just re-packaged something or other.


I wondered about that. I suppose stuff from the auto parts store is more economical.



> Anti-sieze is made especially for lubing threads. Greases or oils, while ok for threads, are adapted from other applications. I'm with the mayor on this - I'm still using the same small tin of Permatex Anti-Sieze that I've had for years - close to 40.


I'll do that then.


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## Mike T. (Feb 3, 2004)

MattintheCrown said:


> I suppose stuff from the auto parts store is more economical.


By far.


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## Mike T. (Feb 3, 2004)

tihsepa said:


> And you see my point?


Yep, I sure do. I saw it three of your posts ago.


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## Kerry Irons (Feb 25, 2002)

*Some history*



MattintheCrown said:


> I'm going to be doing a bit of bike assembly here in the next week or so, and I was wondering what everyone's thoughts were grease/antisieze. Can I get away with using standard grease in most circumstances? And if I need antisieze, can I use automotive antisieze, or is there need for a bike-specific product?


Just for historical reference, I've been using grease and only grease (per Litespeed's recommendation) on my Ti frame with various aluminum, steel, and Ti threaded components for the past 13 seasons and roughly 120,000 miles. I've never had a problem with any thread or press fit item. If you want to put things together and never take them apart (bad practice IMO) then anti-seize is probably a better choice because will last longer than grease. However if you practice routine maintenance, grease is just fine.


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## the mayor (Jul 8, 2004)

I will give the OP 1 warning on anti seize:
It migrates.
Wear old clothes when working with it.( and was these seperate from all your other clothes!)
Use lots of disposable paper towels.

You will find that 1 little dab on your finger will end up spread every where.

And....my fave antiseize is Bel Ray Assembly Lube. I have tried a lot of others....but the bottle I have from 1978 is my go to. Used it last night on the spark plug threads on my vehicle and lawn mower.


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## zer0gravity (Sep 18, 2008)

*Anti Sieze & Lube Both*

Too many Post on here with Opinions. Let's get some facts straight. If you want to use anti seize thats great and if you want to use lube that's great too. The metals in anti seize have different reactions to different metals. It makes sense that Aluminum bolts on Aluminum threads would be best kept from oxidation of threads if a nickel base anti seize was used, same with steel to aluminum or stainless steel to aluminum or Vs. Versa. Depending on what you are trying to accomplish, if you want the bolts to stay tight and keep them from corrosion, yes anti seize would be ideal, if you want to keep them strictly from corrosion, go with a quality teflon based lube to prevent corrosion, as there isn't any heat associated with the lube to break down the teflon. The teflon will not react with the metals either. If you have Ti bolts its best to use an anti seize with copper because of the Vanadium in it. The Titanium bolts are mostly a combination of alloys, they stretch and can come loose without the right torque, and resist corrosion, but the metals are reactive and the threads are brittle. All anti seize compounds have petroleum based lubricant mixed with the metal powder, that act as a catalyst to spread the compound, and to keep it somewhat viscus. Phil wood lube is crud and not that great for anything but basic bicycle assembly of production bicycles at a bike shop. Professionals don't use the stuff of on high end bikes. On Bottom Brackets, they all used to be steel on steel back in the day, so lube alone was fine, but now most bikes are either aluminum or Titanium, and the BB cups are mostly aluminum, unless you have BB30 then BB are all but forgotten. Yes Anti Seise is better suited to prevent corrosion and keep things tight with the proper torque without causing thread galling over time. Permatex Anti seize is going to do you well for certain applications, as well as just good ole' teflon lube, make sure it's 100% teflon not that finish line crap. Since you are just starting out. Use anti seize with a small brush, one for applying soldering flux and lube to small parts. They sell them at the auto parts store. You'll be fine with anti seize on ti-bolts, aluminum bolts. For steel bolts use the teflon. BB Threads, use the anti seize. Seat Post aluminum or carbon? Aluminum post use the teflon on a aluminum frame, use carbon lube on a carbon bike with carbon posts or aluminum bikes with carbon posts. QR skewers, use the teflon, unless they are the Carbon Ti, or Lightweights then use the Anti seize. Those post that say it gets everywhere are because they are using way too much of it. Little goes a long way. You don't need to touch it to apply it. Put the bolt in the wrench then apply it with the small brush thoroughly, then install the bolt with the wrench, done and no mess. In my 33 years in the bike industry, I've never had had ay issues with most lubes for bicycles, but based on experience. The anti Seise works the best on Ti or aluminum bolts and threads, and teflon on steel and stainless. Best of luck on you build if you haven't already built it.


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## RJP Diver (Jul 2, 2010)

zer0gravity said:


> Too many Post on here with Opinions. Let's get some facts straight. If you want to use anti seize thats great and if you want to use lube that's great too. The metals in anti seize have different reactions to different metals. It makes sense that Aluminum bolts on Aluminum threads would be best kept from oxidation of threads if a nickel base anti seize was used, same with steel to aluminum or stainless steel to aluminum or Vs. Versa. Depending on what you are trying to accomplish, if you want the bolts to stay tight and keep them from corrosion, yes anti seize would be ideal, if you want to keep them strictly from corrosion, go with a quality teflon based lube to prevent corrosion, as there isn't any heat associated with the lube to break down the teflon. The teflon will not react with the metals either. If you have Ti bolts its best to use an anti seize with copper because of the Vanadium in it. The Titanium bolts are mostly a combination of alloys, they stretch and can come loose without the right torque, and resist corrosion, but the metals are reactive and the threads are brittle. All anti seize compounds have petroleum based lubricant mixed with the metal powder, that act as a catalyst to spread the compound, and to keep it somewhat viscus. Phil wood lube is crud and not that great for anything but basic bicycle assembly of production bicycles at a bike shop. Professionals don't use the stuff of on high end bikes. On Bottom Brackets, they all used to be steel on steel back in the day, so lube alone was fine, but now most bikes are either aluminum or Titanium, and the BB cups are mostly aluminum, unless you have BB30 then BB are all but forgotten. Yes Anti Seise is better suited to prevent corrosion and keep things tight with the proper torque without causing thread galling over time. Permatex Anti seize is going to do you well for certain applications, as well as just good ole' teflon lube, make sure it's 100% teflon not that finish line crap. Since you are just starting out. Use anti seize with a small brush, one for applying soldering flux and lube to small parts. They sell them at the auto parts store. You'll be fine with anti seize on ti-bolts, aluminum bolts. For steel bolts use the teflon. BB Threads, use the anti seize. Seat Post aluminum or carbon? Aluminum post use the teflon on a aluminum frame, use carbon lube on a carbon bike with carbon posts or aluminum bikes with carbon posts. QR skewers, use the teflon, unless they are the Carbon Ti, or Lightweights then use the Anti seize. Those post that say it gets everywhere are because they are using way too much of it. Little goes a long way. You don't need to touch it to apply it. Put the bolt in the wrench then apply it with the small brush thoroughly, then install the bolt with the wrench, done and no mess. In my 33 years in the bike industry, I've never had had ay issues with most lubes for bicycles, but based on experience. The anti Seise works the best on Ti or aluminum bolts and threads, and teflon on steel and stainless. Best of luck on you build if you haven't already built it.


¶

I'm just sayin'

:thumbsup:


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## Kerry Irons (Feb 25, 2002)

*Reading*



zer0gravity said:


> Too many Post on here with Opinions. Let's get some facts straight. If you want to use anti seize thats great and if you want to use lube that's great too. The metals in anti seize have different reactions to different metals. It makes sense that Aluminum bolts on Aluminum threads would be best kept from oxidation of threads if a nickel base anti seize was used, same with steel to aluminum or stainless steel to aluminum or Vs. Versa. Depending on what you are trying to accomplish, if you want the bolts to stay tight and keep them from corrosion, yes anti seize would be ideal, if you want to keep them strictly from corrosion, go with a quality teflon based lube to prevent corrosion, as there isn't any heat associated with the lube to break down the teflon. The teflon will not react with the metals either. If you have Ti bolts its best to use an anti seize with copper because of the Vanadium in it. The Titanium bolts are mostly a combination of alloys, they stretch and can come loose without the right torque, and resist corrosion, but the metals are reactive and the threads are brittle. All anti seize compounds have petroleum based lubricant mixed with the metal powder, that act as a catalyst to spread the compound, and to keep it somewhat viscus. Phil wood lube is crud and not that great for anything but basic bicycle assembly of production bicycles at a bike shop. Professionals don't use the stuff of on high end bikes. On Bottom Brackets, they all used to be steel on steel back in the day, so lube alone was fine, but now most bikes are either aluminum or Titanium, and the BB cups are mostly aluminum, unless you have BB30 then BB are all but forgotten. Yes Anti Seise is better suited to prevent corrosion and keep things tight with the proper torque without causing thread galling over time. Permatex Anti seize is going to do you well for certain applications, as well as just good ole' teflon lube, make sure it's 100% teflon not that finish line crap. Since you are just starting out. Use anti seize with a small brush, one for applying soldering flux and lube to small parts. They sell them at the auto parts store. You'll be fine with anti seize on ti-bolts, aluminum bolts. For steel bolts use the teflon. BB Threads, use the anti seize. Seat Post aluminum or carbon? Aluminum post use the teflon on a aluminum frame, use carbon lube on a carbon bike with carbon posts or aluminum bikes with carbon posts. QR skewers, use the teflon, unless they are the Carbon Ti, or Lightweights then use the Anti seize. Those post that say it gets everywhere are because they are using way too much of it. Little goes a long way. You don't need to touch it to apply it. Put the bolt in the wrench then apply it with the small brush thoroughly, then install the bolt with the wrench, done and no mess. In my 33 years in the bike industry, I've never had had ay issues with most lubes for bicycles, but based on experience. The anti Seise works the best on Ti or aluminum bolts and threads, and teflon on steel and stainless. Best of luck on you build if you haven't already built it.


Tell you what, next time, to make your post even more unreadable, how about you leave out punctuation and capitalization.


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## zer0gravity (Sep 18, 2008)

*Re: Seriously*



Kerry Irons said:


> Tell you what, next time, to make your post even more unreadable, how about you leave out punctuation and capitalization.


I'm sorry it was so long. I thought this thread was to help someone with a question on grease and anti seize. Just tryin' to help him out. Don't get all bent. How much you maintain your bike wasn't the question; was it? Ergo, my use of the word opinions. FYI, anti seize is much better for your bolts if you service them more frequently because it helps prevent galling, stripping, and thread wear, where grease doesn't; especially on Titanium or Aluminum.


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## MattintheCrown (Jul 6, 2011)

zer0gravity said:


> I'm sorry it was so long. I thought this thread was to help someone with a question on grease and anti seize. Just tryin' to help him out. Don't get all bent. How much you maintain your bike wasn't the question; was it? Ergo, my use of the word opinions. FYI, anti seize is much better for your bolts if you service them more frequently because it helps prevent galling, stripping, and thread wear, where grease doesn't; especially on Titanium or Aluminum.


Thanks for your reply, very informative (though I agree with others, paragraphs would help). I'll check autozone or whatever to see what they have in antisieze and teflon grease.


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## the mayor (Jul 8, 2004)

If you have any carbon on your bike.....I would buy some carbon paste too.
Having the right stuff around when you need it will save you in the long run.


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