# Upgraded 2012 Madone 4.5 or 5.9 Frameset



## Rashadabd (Sep 17, 2011)

Hey folks,

Bear with me for a moment here. I am in the process of making the move from aluminum to carbon. I just got back from the LBS test riding a bunch of bikes today. I currently ride a 2012 Felt F85, so I began by test riding carbon Felt bikes. I actually had my heart set on staying with Felt since I have enjoyed my F85. The F6 rode really well, very smooth and lighter than I expected. I was pretty much sold, but the guys at the LBS then convinced me to try a 2012 Madone (I previously tried a 2011 4.5 and I liked the Felt better). To make a long story short The 2012 4.5 was AMAZING!! It was best ride I have taken on a bike yet (and I have tested everything from Cervelo to Trek, to Felts). This thing made the road feel so smooth and I felt like I was working half as hard to go faster than I was on the Felt (that BB90 is incredible technology). 

My only problm with the 4.5 was that it comes with Shimano 105 on it and I have fallen for Sram. I am looking to have Rival or Force on my next bike (I have a Shimano 105 based system on my current bike and I simply like Sram a lot better). That leaves me with a couple of options: Buy the 4.5 at a great price and upgrade the components and wheels (and then try to sell the stuff that came on the bike I don't want--which ends up being pretty much everything but the frame) or buy the 5.9 frameset for a little more and then just add the other components and parts when I can (but end up with a bike that has everything I actually wany). I guess my question for you all is whether the 5.9 (5 series) frame is superior enough (over the 4 series) to warrant the extra cost of passing on a complete bike to use it as a build? If it isn't I can just get the 4.5 and enjoy riding it while I am collecting upgraded parts. What do you think?


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## teoteoteo (Sep 8, 2002)

Rashadabd said:


> Hey folks,
> 
> Bear with me for a moment here. I am in the process of making the move from aluminum to carbon. I just got back from the LBS test riding a bunch of bikes today. I currently ride a 2012 Felt F85, so I began by test riding carbon Felt bikes. I actually had my heart set on staying with Felt since I have enjoyed my F85. The F6 rode really well, very smooth and lighter than I expected. I was pretty much sold, but the guys at the LBS then convinced me to try a 2012 Madone (I previously tried a 2011 4.5 and I liked the Felt better). To make a long story short The 2012 4.5 was AMAZING!! It was best ride I have taken on a bike yet (and I have tested everything from Cervelo to Trek, to Felts). This thing made the road feel so smooth and I felt like I was working half as hard to go faster than I was on the Felt (that BB90 is incredible technology).
> 
> My only problm with the 4.5 was that it comes with Shimano 105 on it and I have fallen for Sram. I am looking to have Rival or Force on my next bike (I have a Shimano 105 based system on my current bike and I simply like Sram a lot better). That leaves me with a couple of options: Buy the 4.5 at a great price and upgrade the components and wheels (and then try to sell the stuff that came on the bike I don't want--which ends up being pretty much everything but the frame) or buy the 5.9 frameset for a little more and then just add the other components and parts when I can (but end up with a bike that has everything I actually wany). I guess my question for you all is whether the 5.9 (5 series) frame is superior enough (over the 4 series) to warrant the extra cost of passing on a complete bike to use it as a build? If it isn't I can just get the 4.5 and enjoy riding it while I am collecting upgraded parts. What do you think?


Have them order the 4.6. 

Madone 4.6 - Trek Bicycle

The 5 series frame is a better ride and worthy of a nice build too.


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## Rashadabd (Sep 17, 2011)

Yeah, we talked about the 4.6 today. I just couldn't embrace the black and the blue together visually, but you are right.... it probably is the most logical option from a $$$$ standpoint. I like the look of the 5.9 better though and it might actually last me longer. How much better is the ride?


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## teoteoteo (Sep 8, 2002)

Rashadabd said:


> Yeah, we talked about the 4.6 today. I just couldn't embrace the black and the blue together visually, but you are right.... it probably is the most logical option from a $$$$ standpoint. I like the look of the 5.9 better though and it might actually last me longer. How much better is the ride?


Do they have any built 5.2's etc? Any 2011 or 2012 5 series will have the same frame. Trek also has the 2011 5.1 on closeout but the paint is unique. Hard for me to put to words what you'd feel but better carbon and lower weight frame

2011 Madone 5.1 C H2 - Trek Bicycle


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## Rashadabd (Sep 17, 2011)

None in my size unfortunately and all the 2011s in size 52 are sold out. I'm leaning toward the 5.9 frameset, but the price of the 4.5 and 4.6 are hard to pass on. I just wish the 4.6 came in better colors.... Oh well, thanks for the input.


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## Adrianinkc (Nov 13, 2011)

Takes this advice from someone who bought a 11 Madone 4.5 and put SRAM rival group with a red crank. No matter how much upgrading you do it will always be a 4.5, I recently rode a 2012 6.2 and my 4.5 feels like a P.O. S. I learned the hard way the frame is the most important part of a bike, than wheels and than components.


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## Rashadabd (Sep 17, 2011)

Yeah, I've rode both the 2011 4.5 and the 2012 4.5 within the last month. I also rode a 2012 Madone 5.2 today. All of them are more comfortable than a lot of rode bikes, but the 2012s are in their own class. I think you might be surprised if you tried a 2012 4.5, it seems way closer to the 5 or 6 seies than the 2011 4 series was. The 5.9 was extremely impressive in all aspects, but I'm not sure there is $1,200.00 worth of difference in there for 2012. I'm still leaning toward the 5.9 frame though since I really want SRAM components and RXL wheels.


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## Rashadabd (Sep 17, 2011)

Taht's a 5.2 frame I rode today (thanks to the folks at Spokes, etc.) not a 5.9, but the frame is the same.


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## fivekabob (Sep 16, 2008)

Just to let you know that I went from an Alu/CF 2004 Trek 2100 to the new 2012 Madone 4.7. Even though it was brand new off the line, I got a great deal from my LBS. I like the Ultegra Group throughout (except Cassette) and it's very smooth and quick. So relaxed a frame that I'm asking the LBS to adjust the handlebar down a notch. Good luck with your decision.
But if you are interested in SRAM componentry I see that the Trek Website is offering 2011 Madone 5.9...(SRAM Force) at $2999 through their dealers....


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## BCP (Nov 3, 2011)

Rashadabd said:


> Taht's a 5.2 frame I rode today (thanks to the folks at *Spokes, etc*.) not a 5.9, but the frame is the same.


Awesome shop! :thumbsup:

Im in a similar situation, best of luck with your decision.


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## johntrek5 (Nov 8, 2010)

No question, go with the 5 series frame. Last time I looked, they had a pretty good deal on the 5.9 frameset. Buy it, and build it with what ever group set you want. I have a 2011 5.2 (same frame as the 5.9) and have also owned a 4.5. No comparison between the two.


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## Merckx Ti (Mar 8, 2008)

I have the theory that your only gonna truly be happy with the frame you truly want. If you settle than for the 4.5 your gonna always know you settled. Go with the 5.9, I did.

I purchased a 2011 5.9 frame this fall after falling into a decent deal. I then built it up with parts from my old bike till I could afford new components to make it what I wanted. I have been really happy with it's ride and my choice.

This winter I have slowly pieced together a Sram Red group and custom wheels for the 5.9 frame. I know it's gonna really rock after I swap it out when the weather gets better. 

To let you know I tried different bikes from Trek, Felt, Giant and Specialized before setting my sights on the Madone 5.9. I just liked it's ride the best of them all.

Choose whats gonna make you the happiest. I'm sure you already know what that is.


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## GDTRFB (Feb 12, 2011)

Go with the 5.9. If you don't, you'll always wish that you had.
I've got a 4.7, and I really wish that I had bought a 5.5 or 5.9.
I changed over to Sram Force & RXL wheels, but it's still a 4.7.
The 2012 frames are definitely a step up from the 2011's, but still, the 5.9 has internal cable routing
and is an overall better frame.


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## Merckx Ti (Mar 8, 2008)

I spoke to my local Trek rep. about the difference between the 2011 and 2012 5.9 models. He says the only real difference is the all carbon steerer tube on the 2012 version vs an alloy tube on the 2011 5.9. 

Also the carbon is labeled as OCLV on the 2012 where it's TCT carbon on the 2011. The rep.says that there really isn't any true difference between them other than the name for marketing. They changed to OCLV because that is what the market wanted from a high end Trek. (Don't know how true that is but it's what he said) I have ridden both and I can't tell them apart. If I had a choice I would get the 2012 for the carbon steerer tube.

I will also say the BB90 BB was a pain to set up correctly. I had a lot of trouble getting it to spin freely because of drag created by the non drive side bearing seal that is provided with the Sram BB bearing kit. I ended up going back to the Trek store and trading the seal with a similar one they had before I had drag free spin of the cranks. I'm sure the seal would have eventually worn in and the problem would have went away, but I wasn't gonna wait.


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## GDTRFB (Feb 12, 2011)

I suspected that the "OCLV" label on the 3, 4 & 5 series frames for marketing purposes, TCT just doesn't sound as good. Why Trek ever used that term is a mystery to me. My 2004 1200SL has an OCLV fork, which I doubt is better than the TCT fork on my 2011 4.7.

I'm curious as to how much stiffer the BB90 on a 2012 4.x or 5.x is over the external cup BB on the 2011 4.7 frame.
I'm 165 lbs, I don't mash too much (I stand up on hills if I'm pushing it), and I average 16.5 -18.1 MPH on 30-60 mile rides.
Would I feel a difference in "stiffness"?

To the OP: Go with the 5.9, otherwise you'll end up trying to make your 4.5 a 5.9 (like I did, I tried to make my 4.7 a 5.5), and you'll always wish that you'd gone for the higher series frame.


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## Merckx Ti (Mar 8, 2008)

My old bike is a 12 year old Eddy Mercks & I can definitely tell the difference. The Madone's bottom end is a good bit stiffer and can really be felt out of the saddle when climbing. Also it is a lot lighter over a standard BB, which is a moot point for me at 245 lbs.


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## GDTRFB (Feb 12, 2011)

Merckx Ti said:


> My old bike is a 12 year old Eddy Mercks & I can definitely tell the difference. The Madone's bottom end is a good bit stiffer and can really be felt out of the saddle when climbing. Also it is a lot lighter over a standard BB, which is a moot point for me at 245 lbs.



I'd expect that, but can someone like me feel the difference between a 2011 external bearing & a 2012 BB90?


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## Merckx Ti (Mar 8, 2008)

I don't see how you can't. It is a completely different bike design.


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## Adrianinkc (Nov 13, 2011)

I own a 2011 4.5, and during thanksgiving the lbs let me test ride a 2012 6 series project one. Too make a long story short, I'm selling the 4.5 and getting that bike. The diffrence is HUGE between those bikes, I cannot wait to get that thing.


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## GDTRFB (Feb 12, 2011)

Adrianinkc said:


> I own a 2011 4.5, and during thanksgiving the lbs let me test ride a 2012 6 series project one. Too make a long story short, I'm selling the 4.5 and getting that bike. The diffrence is HUGE between those bikes, I cannot wait to get that thing.


I'm afraid to try a 2012 5 or 6. 
I did what you did. I took a 4-series frame, and changed over components and wheels.
I like the thing, but it's still a 4-series.
If I get on a 2012 5 or 6, I know that I'll buy one.


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## Adrianinkc (Nov 13, 2011)

Pete2 said:


> I'm afraid to try a 2012 5 or 6.
> I did what you did. I took a 4-series frame, and changed over components and wheels.
> I like the thing, but it's still a 4-series.
> If I get on a 2012 5 or 6, I know that I'll buy one.


I got to the point where I was happy with my bike, I figured can't be much different. Wrong, don't get me wrong the 4 series is a great bike.


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## leadout_kv (Feb 7, 2011)

I have a 2012 Madone 6.2.

I was replacing my 2007 Madone 5.2 after I was rear ended in a car accident by an 18yr old. My 5.2 was on a hitch mounted bike carrier. Driver's ins paid for most of the replacement. Before settling on the 6.2 I test rode 2 Bianchis, a Cervelo (nice) and a Felt. I'll never forget what I felt the first second, literally, when I got on the 6.2. From the first second getting on the bike I knew it was the bike I wanted.

note - My lbs told me that the 6.2 frame is the same as the 6 series project one. The difference is the greater customization options and price with the project one. I suggest the 6 series but to save a few dollars get the 6.x vs the project one. The frames are the same.


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## wjb (Oct 3, 2011)

Well it is good to know if you spend more money you get a better product. I would hope so. Calling the 4.5 a pos is a little strong. I am happy with mine so I will make sure not to ride a 6 series before I am ready to buy one


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## Milk-Bone (Jul 10, 2011)

wjb said:


> Well it is good to know if you spend more money you get a better product. I would hope so. Calling the 4.5 a pos is a little strong. I am happy with mine so I will make sure not to ride a 6 series before I am ready to buy one


Got a 2011 4.5 as well and love it. It's been a great summer with it and the bike has been to hell and back and still rides really nice. Not looking to upgrade any time soon, no matter how "good" these new bikes supposedly are.


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## Rashadabd (Sep 17, 2011)

Thank you for all of your comments folks. It is coming down to D-Day here (next week) and I am still struggling a little with what to do. I have tried to find as much info as I can on the difference between the 2012 4 series and 5 series Madone frames, but it is tough to find much out there (Like how much does a 2012 frame weigh? The 4 series is being reported as 1100 grams for 2012). Right now, I am leaning toward the 5.9 frame, but it will suck not to be able to ride it (though I still have my Felt F85) until it is built up. But if I'm just going to have to find a way to sale the 105 components and cheap wheels that come on the 4.5 anyway, I might as well go with the 5.9 (I'm just not in the mood for that headache and my wife is not going to be too excited about having more bike parts laying around until I can unload them). I also considered just going with a complete 5.2, but I am committed to riding with SRAM rather than Ultegra. Thanks again.


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## ClayFranklin (Dec 12, 2011)

The 5.9 looks sweet. One idea is to get the 6 project one and customize it. They have it for $300 off and you can downgrade components to get the price way down.

I just got the 6.2 with the $300 off and the LBS was having a 2 day sale so I saved even more. I wanted the 5.2 because I love the black but for a few hundred more got the Made in the USA model. I would have got a 4.7 but I needed the H3 fit and it only comes on 5 and 6 series. No one thinks I should have got such a nice bike except me. Same for when I got the used S-works mountain bike a few years ago. 

If one will make you happier then that is the one IMO.


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## GDTRFB (Feb 12, 2011)

ClayFranklin said:


> No one thinks I should have got such a nice bike except me.
> If one will make you happier then that is the one IMO.



I don't know why people seem to feel the need to tell cyclists that too much was spent on a bike, or that the bike is too nice. I hear that crap from time to time. I had to listen to a relative (who blows money on all sorts of unfinished projects, and who's spouse gambles away a fortune, oh let me correct that, wins a lot gambling) tell me that my Bontrager Race X-Lite wheels were a waste of money. These experts ride low-end bikes a couple of hundred miles a year. Sure, an $800 aluminum Tiagra bike would get me out on the road, but my carbon-fiber Force bike is a lot nicer. And I like it. And that's all that counts. And I turned 4000 miles for the year last week
Enjoy your Madone 6 series. It's a damn nice bike. And it's not too expensive. Not even close. I'll have one when I wear out my 4-series.


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## Rashadabd (Sep 17, 2011)

Well, after much delibertion, I went with the 2012 Madone 5.9 frameset. I'm still not convinced that there is a ton of ride quality between the 5 series and the 4 series in 2012, but since I would replace the wheels and components (from Shimano to SRAM) on the 4.5 anyway, I would end up paying about the same for the two frames and decided I might as well go with the higher quality then. I am looking forward to completing the bike, it's out of stock and should be here sometime in Januaury. Thank you again for all of the advice!!


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## Merckx Ti (Mar 8, 2008)

Good for you and I hope you enjoy it.


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