# Ride quality - difference between easton Ultralite and steel



## SGG2 (Aug 18, 2003)

So, I was mainly looking at steel for a new frame (True Temper Platinum OX, probably) but I have now talked to some builders who do steel and Al and they have recommended Easton Ultra-lite as a better material for a truly dedicated race frame (meaning that this will not probably be an adventure bike, for loaded touring, etc., although I will probably ride in on single track occasionally)

Benefits are probably stiffness, maybe acceleration, and lower weight (about a pound less in my 60 cm size)

Potential negatives of aluminum are obviously the potential for getting more beat up, but I keep hearing about how aluminum is getting more and more comfortable.

Do any of you have an aluminum and steel frame that you can compare side-by-side, and how is the ride different, if at all. I will be using a carbon fork (Alpha Q) on either material.

Steve


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## jhr (May 31, 2002)

*frame material*

I know their are others who will disagree with me, but in my opinion, if you are running actual cyclocross pressures in your tires (30-50lbs) you will not be able to tell the difference from one frame material to the next. The one place where I do notice frame stiffness on a cross bike is the front fork when braking hard. A flexible front fork will cause the front brake to chatter under heavy braking.

If you trust the guy you are considering paying to build you a frame you should follow his advice. If you don't trust him you should find another builder.

If you are serious about racing think reasonably light (you will have to carry it at some point), durable (you will crash), and replaceable (ie. not too expensive to replace) (because you will crash).

jhr


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## SGG2 (Aug 18, 2003)

jhr said:



> I know their are others who will disagree with me, but in my opinion, if you are running actual cyclocross pressures in your tires (30-50lbs) you will not be able to tell
> jhr


I will be using Tufo tubulars next season, but will probably run them at the higher pressure end. I trust the builder(s), and they have said that either material will work, you just have tradeoffs, as in everything.

Steve


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## The Walrus (Apr 2, 2000)

*Difference is marginal, IMHO*

I have/had Easton Ultralite (Bianchi Axis, Kona Major Jake) and steel (VooDoo Wazoo, Bianchi Reparto Corse 'crosser) and I'd be hard-pressed to tell the difference--certainly not in any measureable way. I would say as a purely subjective choice the Wazoos would get the nod as most comfortable for all-day riding and the Major Jake the least (not that it is at all uncomfortable; the Wazoo just has an indefineable margin of "cush"), but there are so many factors at work (geometry, tire size/pressure, fork, etc) that it's not reasonable to single out the frame material as the cause. The Axis and Major Jake somehow feel faster, but again, that's purely subjective. If I were racing-oriented, I'd go for the Ultralite, but since I'm not, my ultimate choice would be Reynolds 853.


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## jh_on_the_cape (Apr 14, 2004)

SGG2 said:


> So, I was mainly looking at steel for a new frame (True Temper Platinum OX, probably) but I have now talked to some builders who do steel and Al and they have recommended Easton Ultra-lite as a better material for a truly dedicated race frame (meaning that this will not probably be an adventure bike, for loaded touring, etc., although I will probably ride in on single track occasionally)
> 
> Benefits are probably stiffness, maybe acceleration, and lower weight (about a pound less in my 60 cm size)
> 
> ...


In which class do you race, i.e. how long are the races, 45 minutes, right? In the few races I have done, I would say that it depends on the course, but its a matter of either getting more tired by:
a) hefting an extra pound over the barriers and the run-ups, also perhaps some wasted energy in a flexier frame (depends on build),
b) getting more jarred by the aluminum ride.

I would go with aluminum for a race bike. But like the other guy said, racing is not a priority, and I have felt a difference on a long road ride with 90 psi road tires between al and steel. but you arent really going to be doing that...


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## SGG2 (Aug 18, 2003)

*good question*

I raced Cat4 last year here in Colorado, and was 2nd twice, 5th once, top ten a few times, so will probably upgrade to Cat3 or race with the 35+ Open category. So, I will still be racing 45 minutes.

My current bike weighs about 22 pounds - steel Ibis with a triple crank, MTB hubs, heavy saddle and post, quill stem. In theory, I might drop about 3 - 3.5 pounds with an aluminum frame and fancy parts.

Steve


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## ThumbPuncher (Apr 11, 2004)

*Its not about the material, its about*

The well thought out plan/execution of the material used. I have always wondered why more people dont make this point. A 1980's Al bike was light and very rigid. a 2004 Al bike is even lighter and can be built as stiff or compliant as the builder wants. Grouping all Al bikes together is just as bad as saying all Steel bikes are more compliant and ride better. 
It's more important to trust your builder and be honest with what you want. This will help your chances at getting a frame that fits. I have owned 2 custom bikes and only one truly fit me. My California botique builder truly missed the fit and it rides like a tank, while my IF fits like it is an extension of me. Each is a hand selected steel tubeset,built for the measurements I faxed to them, but my IF was buitl by a better builder for me.
I am always amazed at how the most benign part of the bike (frame) can stir such a emotional feeling within people. If you are really concerned about the how the bike "feels" you can do way more with rim, spoke, lacing pattern, tire combo than you can with frame material. 
Wade


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## MShaw (Jun 7, 2003)

ThumbPuncher said:


> The well thought out plan/execution of the material used. I have always wondered why more people dont make this point. A 1980's Al bike was light and very rigid. a 2004 Al bike is even lighter and can be built as stiff or compliant as the builder wants. Grouping all Al bikes together is just as bad as saying all Steel bikes are more compliant and ride better.
> Wade


I can vouch for the fact that the late 80s C-dale I rode on the road was light and rigid. So rigid that my back hurt and the equipment went numb after about 90min.

My AL S-Works road frame rides nicer than my steel Bontrager Road Lite.

My custom Russ Denny track bike rides softer than my custom Cunefare did. Depends on the tubeset picked.

Just as a note to the OP. The reason you ride tubies is that you CAN ride them at the lower end of the pressure spectrum and still not pinch flat. I'd say play around wih the pressures and just see. Lower = better traction, higher = less rolling resistance. I don't think I ride my 34c Tufos much higher than 45-50PSI (but its been awhile since I've ridden that bike off-road so I may be off a few #)

ATP?? Care to add anything?

HTH,

M


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## atpjunkie (Mar 23, 2002)

*nah I can only do 1 shameless plug*

but if you were in SoCal I'd let ya demo my Al cx bikes. I have 3, 7000 (I think), M-4 Metal Matrix (S-Works) and SC. I have bikes that will fit you, so if you come out west give me a holler. The metal matrix is what sold me on Al, suprisingly smooth feel and light. let us know what ya do.


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## SGG2 (Aug 18, 2003)

ThumbPuncher said:


> My California botique builder truly missed the fit and it rides like a tank, while my IF fits like it is an extension of me. Each is a hand selected steel tubeset,built for the measurements I faxed to them, but my IF was buitl by a better builder for me.
> Wade


Who was the California builder? I am looking at someone in California (Rock Lobster) and would be worried if he missed the fit. He built two bikes for a very tall friend and they fit him perfectly, but I'd like to hear about any negatives.

Steve


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## atpjunkie (Mar 23, 2002)

*Cal Builders*

if you have the coin go get a Soulcraft. less expensive than a Steelman and now have a Nat'l title under their belt. great guys, sweet rides, Sycip's are nice as well. what Cal builder screwed up? Was it rock Lobster? I've seen some, they look quite nice.


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## ThumbPuncher (Apr 11, 2004)

*No need to air dirty laundry.*



atpjunkie said:


> if you have the coin go get a Soulcraft. less expensive than a Steelman and now have a Nat'l title under their belt. great guys, sweet rides, Sycip's are nice as well. what Cal builder screwed up? Was it rock Lobster? I've seen some, they look quite nice.


But I was not thrilled with the build or the geo I got. I am sure this frame was the exception for this builder and not the rule. Check the pics. The red paint is where my LBS had to grind the dropout with a dremel to get the the chain not to rub while in the Big chainring and small gear combo. They try to make right by offering a free paint job and shipping both ways. I also bought a build kit from them and the wrong bottom bracket came with in the kit. All these things started adding up to a truly dissapointing experience.The lack of attention to detail was dissappointing to say the least. The head tube / fork was so tall I had to run a negative rise stem to get comfortable. The bike came with a setback seatpost which puzzeled me untill I rode it a couple times. I was cramped but the TT was the same length as my road bike. I was lucky to find a buyer that thought it fit well. and I sold it. I bought the frame on a recomendation from friends who truly love love theirs. No it was not a Rock Lobster, and I truly do not want to disclose the builder as I had the opportunity to send it back, but I continued to play with the fit for over a year, and talked myself into believing the bike fit. 
Bottom line.... find a builder you can trust and be honest with how and where you ride. If it is not right, call and discuss how to make it right. I love my Independent Fabrication and can truly recomend them with a clear concious,
Wade
Wade


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## SGG2 (Aug 18, 2003)

*Probably can't afford Soulcraft*



atpjunkie said:


> if you have the coin go get a Soulcraft. less expensive than a Steelman and now have a Nat'l title under their belt. great guys, sweet rides, Sycip's are nice as well. what Cal builder screwed up? Was it rock Lobster? I've seen some, they look quite nice.


At $1450 for frame and fork, I can't afford them. I will be trying a carbon fork on this bike, so that adds some more money to the whole deal. Rock Lobster at about $900 for a frame seems to be my budget right now.

Steve


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## kannas (Feb 7, 2004)

*true fit and S3 true temper tubes*

I have read many posts regarding ultimate fit, where I can agree that particular geometries favor certian individuals, I do not think there is a set equation regarding ultimate fit. I think a rider can be become acustom to a set up. 
I have three bike 2 cyclocross kits and a road bike. All are with in reason of being "close" in size and geo, they are very different.

I would have to say from my experience the most important sizing factor is a triangle between the bar, bb and saddle nose.
To add to that I think one needs a basis to fit a custom frame, like what you have ridden in the past, what your goals are and a whole lot of test rides.

Just my general opinion and I am sure someone will point out faults, fine by me.

Has anyone inquired a builder about S3 tubes? I saw that Steelman uses them for his road frames, suitable for cross, perhaps light weights?

To answer you post question ride difference, I agree with other posts where as ride quality is minimized with the use of low pressure tires. I like to race with a higher pressure than most, anything lower than 50psi I feel sluggish, sloppy and bouncy on the sprints. I race in the new england area where I has not been really wet the past two seasons.


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## dlbcx (Aug 28, 2002)

*Steelman*

Yeah, Brent did make some cx frames out of the S3. But, he charges a little extra and when I asked him about the tubing, Brent said it was strictly for racing since the tubing is fairly thin. So, if you are looking for something that isn't going to be used strictly for racing then get it made out of the Reynolds 853 or True Temper OX Platinum.


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