# UCI getting pushed to legalize disc brakes.



## pulser955 (Apr 18, 2009)

Well we all knew it was coming and here it is. Shimano has asked the World Federation of the Sporting Goods Industry to push for the rule change from the UCI. 

Bike Brands Unite To Seek Disc Brakes Approval In Pro Road Racing - BikeRadar

I personally am really excited about discs in road racing I think the development possibility's for frames, cabin wheels, a integrated shift brake systems is really cool.


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## Fireform (Dec 15, 2005)

I think it's overrated, but then I'm a curmudgeon. Sure, you can make the rims lighter, but forks and stays have to be heavier, and how aero can you make them? 

When I watch Spartacus pulverize a grand tour TT stage on a bike with mechanical shifting, I know I'm not alone in thinking these are solutions in search of a problem.


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## JohnStonebarger (Jan 22, 2004)

Or products in search of a market.


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## aclinjury (Sep 12, 2011)

Fireform said:


> I think it's overrated, but then I'm a curmudgeon.* Sure, you can make the rims lighter,* but forks and stays have to be heavier, and how aero can you make them?
> 
> When I watch Spartacus pulverize a grand tour TT stage on a bike with mechanical shifting, I know I'm not alone in thinking these are solutions in search of a problem.


not really. The brake track is still needed for structural integrity, just that it won't be called "brack track" per se


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## JSR (Feb 27, 2006)

I'm pretty curmudgeonly myself, but I can't wait for discs to be prevalent on road bikes. I have them on my mountain bike and love the combination of stopping power and fade resistance. IMHO discs are a superior braking technology and should be incorporated ASAP.


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## ziscwg (Apr 19, 2010)

From a race stand point, I can think of a few issues. 

Wheel swaps from a neutral support vehicle?

Disk alignment. Disks tend to a little more tempermental on this than rim brakes.

Now, from my personal standpoint, I can't wait. I've done the same windy descent on my road bike and on a CX with discs. Hands down, the discs were better and I felt in more control. 

I kind of worry about the sharp edge of the front discs in races too. Maybe the UCI can specify a min radius for the edge of the discs to keep them from being supper sharp


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## myhui (Aug 11, 2012)

Fireform said:


> When I watch Spartacus pulverize a grand tour TT stage on a bike with mechanical shifting, I know I'm not alone in thinking these are solutions in search of a problem.


Isn't a TT stage one where not a lot of shifting is required?


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## Fireform (Dec 15, 2005)

myhui said:


> Isn't a TT stage one where not a lot of shifting is required?


Not necessarily, and not in that stage. 

The technical demands of road braking (higher speeds, longer descents), the aero properties and weight of the disk systems, and the need to stiffen the frame elements to cope with the stresses (increasing weight and decreasing comfort) all pose significant challenges. 

Road and mtb are very different. Not a fan yet, by a long shot.


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## spade2you (May 12, 2009)

myhui said:


> Isn't a TT stage one where not a lot of shifting is required?


Shifting in the bullhorns would seem like a nice advantage. How much are you in the bullhorns in an ITT? Generally not that much. Generally, you'll start out in the horns for your inital acceleration. After that, steeper climbs or corners are the only reasons I get out of my aero position. I'm going to be in a lower gear for the climb. I'll shift to a slightly lighter gear when cornering and back to my desired gear.


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## SauronHimself (Nov 21, 2012)

Maybe if the UCI wasn't retarded and allowed people to exploit the laws of physics we could see lower cost measures that actually provide substantial improvements in races (i.e. allowing windscreens/nose cones to be installed for TTs so the rider isn't fighting all that drag).


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## DasBoost (Aug 15, 2013)

As a newbie, I'm excited for discs to be allowed into road racing, albeit on a different tangent. With disc systems being heavier, it gives a bit more freedom in frame design and still being able to hit the UCI's 6.8kg weight minimum. Better braking, no need to use intentionally heavier parts to meet the minimum, and a bit of wiggle room to play with overall design and weight.


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## c_h_i_n_a_m_a_n (Mar 3, 2012)

I think a lot of us who started out in MTBs with disc have a strong affinity to discs?

I must admit I do love discs, but does is it offer discernible effectiveness on a road bike?

_I think in the pro peloton in a puncture, they will just swap out the whole bike with discs instead of just the wheel._


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## spookyload (Jan 30, 2004)

I too question wheel changes. On my MTB I have the exact same hub and rotor combo that is torqued exactly the same. I can't swap wheels without adjusting the brakes every time. I am not talking bottom end junk either, it is top of the line Magura with King hubs. Doesn't seem practical for wheel changes. 

Why would you need brake tracks? My MTB wheels don't have them. They ca actually make the rims stronger in design if you don't have to worry about brake track placement and reinforcement.


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## Cinelli 82220 (Dec 2, 2010)

Look at all the "Aero-road" bikes with integrated brakes. 
A lot of those brakes are made by the frame builder or some subcontractor. Not Campagnolo, Shimano or SRAM. That's lost sales revenue for those three component makers.
Maybe Shimano wants everyone to stick with Shimano disc brakes instead of using off-brand?


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## foto (Feb 7, 2005)

I have never had a problem with brake fade on a road bike.


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## JohnStonebarger (Jan 22, 2004)

SauronHimself said:


> Maybe if the UCI wasn't retarded and allowed people to exploit the laws of physics we could see lower cost measures that actually provide substantial improvements in races (i.e. allowing windscreens/nose cones to be installed for TTs so the rider isn't fighting all that drag).


So TTs on fully faired recumbents, huh? Personally, I'd miss the diamond-shaped frame.

This was actually the first of the UCI's restrictions on bike design, wasn't it? The hour record was bested with a recumbent in 1933 and next thing you know the UCI specified the double-triangle or diamond shape and the recumbent became a "human powered vehicle" rather than a bicycle.


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## aclinjury (Sep 12, 2011)

forget disc, the UCI needs to drop the minimum weight requirement to 13 lbs. 15 lbs is just stupid these days.

did I say forget disc? yep. Never needed them, and I descend plenty in the mountains of Socal. Only time I even think about disc is when it's wet, but when it's wet, I don't take my A- bike. I take my mountain bike (with disc) to ride wet.


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## pulser955 (Apr 18, 2009)

aclinjury said:


> forget disc, the UCI needs to drop the minimum weight requirement to 13 lbs. 15 lbs is just stupid these days.
> 
> did I say forget disc? yep. Never needed them, and I descend plenty in the mountains of Socal. Only time I even think about disc is when it's wet, but when it's wet, I don't take my A- bike. I take my mountain bike (with disc) to ride wet.


This is the argument I always find funny. Discs in pro cycling aren't about you putting along on Socal roads in good weather. Its about the progression of equipment in the nastiest of conditions for pros in grand tours. It would let guys like Cancellara (who is one hell of a descender) go down hill faster in wet weather on carbon rims. It's about developing frames and braking systems under the best riders in the world because the market is asking for it. No one is saying you have to buy it. But things change and equipment gets better. That's why we have pro racing. If company's cant develop new equipment it wants to bring to market in the pro peloton there is little point in them supporting pro racing. Maybe we need a stock car league for the retro grouches out there. You can only use steel single speeds with flip flop hubs and you have to wear wool.


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## Dave Cutter (Sep 26, 2012)

pulser955 said:


> ..... Maybe we need a stock car league for the retro grouches out there. You can only use steel single speeds with flip flop hubs and you have to wear wool.


Seems to me there is a league(?) of old guys with vintage 10 speeds that tour some of the old European race courses. I also have a great affection for old steel bicycles with downtube friction shifters. Sometimes... I even ride one.

But modern bicycles are just plain better.

I look forward to the day that the standard road bike has disc brakes, carbon fiber belts (instead of chains), and hubs with internal gears.


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## mikerp (Jul 24, 2011)

ziscwg said:


> From a race stand point, I can think of a few issues.
> 
> Wheel swaps from a neutral support vehicle?
> 
> ...


Great points, rear wheel swaps at this point fall into Campy or Shimano, fronts wheels are universal; neutral vehicles will have to add disk brake to the mix (front and rear), wider axle, etc. Talk about a cluster.
I have no experience with disk brakes on bikes, but I can't imagine that the disk doesn't add some extra effort to swapping wheels out fast.


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## wim (Feb 28, 2005)

pulser955 said:


> It's about developing frames and braking systems under the best riders in the world because the market is asking for it.


While that may be true, it also brings up the question: Are the best riders in the world asking for it? I have absolutely no idea how the pros feel about this. But if they're not asking for disc brakes, it's understandable that the UCI is resisting pressure from companies whose primary interest is the recreational marketplace. And there's no doubt that recreational riders do want disc brakes.


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## Salsa_Lover (Jul 6, 2008)

Recreational Freds have had plenty of commuter bikes with discs to play with since a while.

On a road racing bike ? Totally unnecessary.


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## wim (Feb 28, 2005)

Salsa_Lover said:


> Recreational Freds have had plenty of commuter bikes with discs to play with since a while.


Well, I was thinking more of recreational riders on race-type bikes and wearing the uniform.

Be that as it may, it's strange sometimes how these things work out. When indexed downtube shifters became available, it was a big hit with recreational riders who just couldn't deal with friction shifting. But the pros were lukewarm about it. Then when STI and Ergo ("brifters") became available, the pros couldn't get rid of their downtube shifters fast enough. Well, except Sean Kelly perhaps...


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## SauronHimself (Nov 21, 2012)

JohnStonebarger said:


> So TTs on fully faired recumbents, huh? Personally, I'd miss the diamond-shaped frame.
> 
> This was actually the first of the UCI's restrictions on bike design, wasn't it? The hour record was bested with a recumbent in 1933 and next thing you know the UCI specified the double-triangle or diamond shape and the recumbent became a "human powered vehicle" rather than a bicycle.


I personally wouldn't like to do a TT on a recumbent, but that's just me. However, I think it's stupid that the UCI gets to say what a bicycle is other than a two-wheeled vehicle powered solely by the rider. The fact that a racing bicycle must also be available as a production bicycle, for example, limits the possibilities of what consumers can have for production and vice versa.


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## den bakker (Nov 13, 2004)

SauronHimself said:


> I personally wouldn't like to do a TT on a recumbent, but that's just me. However, I think it's stupid that the UCI gets to say what a bicycle is other than a two-wheeled vehicle powered solely by the rider. The fact that a racing bicycle must also be available as a production bicycle, for example, limits the possibilities of what consumers can have for production and vice versa.


then go ride the bent races, no one is stopping you. It's exactly the category you want, you can ride your normal tt bike there if that's what you want.


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## SauronHimself (Nov 21, 2012)

den bakker said:


> then go ride the bent races, no one is stopping you. It's exactly the category you want, you can ride your normal tt bike there if that's what you want.


I'd rather change an organization that holds back progress than simply take the attitude of "you don't have to participate if you don't like it".


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## wim (Feb 28, 2005)

SauronHimself said:


> I'd rather change an organization that holds back progress than simply take the attitude of "you don't have to participate if you don't like it".


But holding back progress is exactly what one of the missions of the the UCI is. To keep the huge numbers of spectators the sport enjoys now, a full-out race bike must look pretty much like a traditional bicycle that people can relate to—even people who just use their bike to ride around on Sunday a few times a year. Too much "progress" and you lose spectators and with that, of course, big money.


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## Tig (Feb 9, 2004)

JSR said:


> I'm pretty curmudgeonly myself, but I can't wait for discs to be prevalent on road bikes. I have them on my mountain bike and love the combination of stopping power and fade resistance. IMHO discs are a superior braking technology and should be incorporated ASAP.


^This.
I've been waiting for them for 12 years after I discovered how great they are in the MTB world. 

Manufacturers should love it, too. They get to reinvent our needs for new bikes, almost like how George Lucas *re*-released newer Star Wars versions and formats over and over.


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## Tig (Feb 9, 2004)

foto said:


> I have never had a problem with brake fade on a road bike.


Try a rain soaked crit. Holy shart, that's fun!


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## tlg (May 11, 2011)

Tig said:


> Manufacturers should love it, too. They get to reinvent our needs for new bikes, almost like how George Lucas *re*-released newer Star Wars versions and formats over and over.


Bad analogy. I don't think we want Jar Jar quality disc brakes.


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## den bakker (Nov 13, 2004)

SauronHimself said:


> I'd rather change an organization that holds back progress than simply take the attitude of "you don't have to participate if you don't like it".


ok we agree there's an environment perfect for you and yet........


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## Local Hero (Jul 8, 2010)

Cinelli 82220 said:


> Look at all the "Aero-road" bikes with integrated brakes.
> A lot of those brakes are made by the frame builder or some subcontractor. Not Campagnolo, Shimano or SRAM. That's lost sales revenue for those three component makers.
> Maybe Shimano wants everyone to stick with Shimano disc brakes instead of using off-brand?


What's to stop bike manufacturers from creating proprietary disc brakes? 

Big bike producers could integrate internal hoses and calipers into their forks/frames. 

The rotor diameter would be set in stone but the system could end up being quite aero.


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## pulser955 (Apr 18, 2009)

wim said:


> While that may be true, it also brings up the question: Are the best riders in the world asking for it? I have absolutely no idea how the pros feel about this. But if they're not asking for disc brakes, it's understandable that the UCI is resisting pressure from companies whose primary interest is the recreational marketplace. And there's no doubt that recreational riders do want disc brakes.


I know some of the teams were talking about it after last years Tour. They were talking about it being time to let them have disc brakes to make stopping in bad weather less of an issue and wanting more control. I think allot of the talk came after some big crashes in wet weather.


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## foto (Feb 7, 2005)

Tig said:


> Try a rain soaked crit. Holy shart, that's fun!


I've raced lots of rainy crits. And yes they are fun. Never had a problem with my brakes.


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## foto (Feb 7, 2005)

mikerp said:


> Great points, rear wheel swaps at this point fall into Campy or Shimano, fronts wheels are universal; neutral vehicles will have to add disk brake to the mix (front and rear), wider axle, etc. Talk about a cluster.
> I have no experience with disk brakes on bikes, but I can't imagine that the disk doesn't add some extra effort to swapping wheels out fast.


Not just "add in disc brakes." The rotor will not fit the caliper unless the hubs and the rotors on the two wheels are _exactly the same._ Even then, sometimes rotors warp, they get smooshed etc and now your wheel change is totally a shitshow.

Also, any of you actually ever work on disc brakes? They don't work that well out of the box, they need to get seated in. All the rotors on the replacement wheels will need to get seated before they get put on the bikes, otherwise there will be dozens of skinny pros flying off the sides of a mountian


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## pulser955 (Apr 18, 2009)

foto said:


> Not just "add in disc brakes." The rotor will not fit the caliper unless the hubs and the rotors on the two wheels are _exactly the same._ Even then, sometimes rotors warp, they get smooshed etc and now your wheel change is totally a shitshow.
> 
> Also, any of you actually ever work on disc brakes? They don't work that well out of the box, they need to get seated in. All the rotors on the replacement wheels will need to get seated before they get put on the bikes, otherwise there will be dozens of skinny pros flying off the sides of a mountian


Actually I race mountain bikes and I work on disc brakes all the time. Some are better then others. If your experience is with Avid then yes they suck out of the box. But Shimano are quite good. I have a season on my XT brakes and I have only had to service them once. Its true that neutral support will be a problem, but how often do the pros use that anyway? Most likely you will see riders being given bikes rather then wheels. With in the teams they can set up wheels with out much problem. If you watch World Cup XC you see wheel changes all the time. They will take a few sets of wheels shim all the rotors so they fit the caliper exactly. There really aren't any problems that wont be over come with a little forethought and planing.


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## foto (Feb 7, 2005)

pulser955 said:


> Actually I race mountain bikes and I work on disc brakes all the time. Some are better then others. If your experience is with Avid then yes they suck out of the box. But Shimano are quite good. I have a season on my XT brakes and I have only had to service them once. Its true that neutral support will be a problem, but how often do the pros use that anyway? Most likely you will see riders being given bikes rather then wheels. With in the teams they can set up wheels with out much problem. If you watch World Cup XC you see wheel changes all the time. They will take a few sets of wheels shim all the rotors so they fit the caliper exactly. There really aren't any problems that wont be over come with a little forethought and planing.


Pros use neutral support all the time. Consider a stage race, if someone is behind the caravan and they get a flat, neutral support is the only support. It would be a shame to miss the time cut because neutral support had to recenter the brakes on your bike to fit a spare wheel.


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## ziscwg (Apr 19, 2010)

SauronHimself said:


> Maybe if the UCI wasn't retarded and allowed people to exploit the laws of physics we could see lower cost measures that actually provide substantial improvements in races (i.e. allowing windscreens/nose cones to be installed for TTs so the rider isn't fighting all that drag).


I do see your point. However, I cannot imagine it would be safe to have anything that would catch a crosswind on a TT. I remember one year in the Tour of CA TT, a few riders swapped their disc wheels out to 80 mm rims because of the wind.


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## spade2you (May 12, 2009)

ziscwg said:


> I do see your point. However, I cannot imagine it would be safe to have anything that would catch a crosswind on a TT. I remember one year in the Tour of CA TT, a few riders swapped their disc wheels out to 80 mm rims because of the wind.


I highly doubt a disc break can add that much of a crosswind issue compared to disc wheels or tri spokes. Besides, the rear wheel has a lot less influence than the front wheel in terms of how the bike handles in a crosswind. I have taken a few 30mph+ gusts and remained upright, even at ~120lbs.


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## foto (Feb 7, 2005)

spade2you said:


> I highly doubt a disc break can add that much of a crosswind issue compared to disc wheels or tri spokes. Besides, the rear wheel has a lot less influence than the front wheel in terms of how the bike handles in a crosswind. I have taken a few 30mph+ gusts and remained upright, even at ~120lbs.


how do you know it was a 30+ mph gust?


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## spade2you (May 12, 2009)

foto said:


> how do you know it was a 30+ mph gust?


Weather software in that area. I do apologize if this is insufficient. It gets very gusty in the rural areas. I've also taken that rig out during a wind advisory or two for crosswind practice.


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## Tig (Feb 9, 2004)

spade2you said:


> Weather software in that area. *I do apologize if this is insufficient.* It gets very gusty in the rural areas. I've also taken that rig out during a wind advisory or two for crosswind practice.


Next time, attach a Power Point presentation with the local weather station historical data, per protocol. Oh, and don't forget the TPS Cover Sheet!


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## spade2you (May 12, 2009)

Tig said:


> Next time, attach a Power Point presentation with the local weather station historical data, per protocol. Oh, and don't forget the TPS Cover Sheet!


No kidding. Even with a TPS Cover sheet, I'd be 1-2 posts away from being called a doper, again. (Again)


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## Local Hero (Jul 8, 2010)

wim said:


> While that may be true, it also brings up the question: Are the best riders in the world asking for it? I have absolutely no idea how the pros feel about this. But if they're not asking for disc brakes, it's understandable that the UCI is resisting pressure from companies whose primary interest is the recreational marketplace. And there's no doubt that recreational riders do want disc brakes.


Oddly enough, it's possible that factoring in what pros want is less important than finding out what recreational riders want. 

Pros are good at riding bikes. We know that. But for the most part they are uneducated. The do not possess any special knowledge of how bicycles work. (But they do have opinions!) Yet they will ride what their sponsors tell them to ride. 

Unlike pros, recreational riders actually purchase bikes. And that marketplace is what gives the manufactureres money.


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## den bakker (Nov 13, 2004)

Local Hero said:


> Pros are good at riding bikes. We know that. But for the most part they are uneducated. The do not possess any special knowledge of how bicycles work. (But they do have opinions!)


sounds to me the only difference between pros and most users here then is that the pro's are good at riding bikes.


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## Local Hero (Jul 8, 2010)

den bakker said:


> sounds to me the only difference between pros and most users here then is that the pro's are good at riding bikes.


and the fact that amateurs are the ones who actually purchase bikes


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## spade2you (May 12, 2009)

Local Hero said:


> Oddly enough, it's possible that factoring in what pros want is less important than finding out what recreational riders want.
> 
> Pros are good at riding bikes. We know that. But for the most part they are uneducated. The do not possess any special knowledge of how bicycles work. (But they do have opinions!) Yet they will ride what their sponsors tell them to ride.
> 
> Unlike pros, recreational riders actually purchase bikes. And that marketplace is what gives the manufactureres money.


I do find it a little odd that riders who spend that much time on the bike wouldn't pay attention to all the details. At my own ~10h/week it's not that hard to notice what makes a bike do certain things.


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## Tig (Feb 9, 2004)

Local Hero said:


> and the fact that amateurs are the ones who actually purchase bikes


...that look like the pro's bikes.

Win on Sunday, sell on Monday.


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## Local Hero (Jul 8, 2010)

Right. 

Do trends start with pros, amateurs, or the industry? 

It's hard to tell. Lemond threw aero bars on his bike and won le TT in le tour. Now every competitive triathlete uses aero bars. On the other hand, many triathletes are running 25mm clinchers -- while most pros run tubulars. And then there are trends which could not possibly originate anywhere but the industry, like electronic shifting and 11 speed cassettes. So it is difficult to tell exactly where the trends start. Maybe all three. 

There is definitely some dog-wagging going on with disc brakes.


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## OldChipper (May 15, 2011)

Can't think of a single reason a recreational rider (or even an amateur racer) would want disc brakes. More finnicky "sh!t" to fiddle with. More expensive. More tools to buy. Incompatible wheels between different bikes. Heavier, less aero. All this to solve what problem exactly? 

I'm serious; given these down-sides, please tell me one single problem with rim brakes that you encounter on a regular basis that would justify the negatives of disc brakes on a road bike.

And, but the way, I'm far from a retro-grouch. I was an early-adopter of indexed shitfting, clipless pedals, brifters, 8, then 9, then 10 speed clusters, compact gearing, GPS cycle-computers, low-spoke count wheels, aero-wheels, aero frames, and currently ride carbon clinchers.


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## Alaska Mike (Sep 28, 2008)

OldChipper said:


> Can't think of a single reason a recreational rider (or even an amateur racer) would want disc brakes.


Extended braking with carbon rims. There's one. 
Greater stopping power for heavier loads (e.g. touring). That's two. 
Foul-weather stopping. That's three. 
Longer rim life. That's four.
No drag with out-of-true wheels. There's five...

To be honest, I'm fine with rim brakes on my road bike, even when it's raining and I'm doing a lot of descending. I adjust when and how I brake for the conditions, and everything seems to work out fine.

I do have BB7s on my 'cross bike, which I truly like, but wouldn't want to drag them up the longer climbs I do on my road bikes. I imagine that weights will continue to fall, but I just don't see the overall benefit being worth it to me on the road just yet. I also don't feel like replacing/relacing all of my wheelsets at this time. A couple teammates of mine have sweet BH 'cross bikes with hydraulic discs that are around 16lbs, and at least one of them will be road racing his next year. I just don't have that sort of cash or the desire to swap over.

It will happen sooner or later, but I'm not in any hurry.


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## OldChipper (May 15, 2011)

Alaska Mike said:


> Extended braking with carbon rims. There's one.
> Greater stopping power for heavier loads (e.g. touring). That's two.
> Foul-weather stopping. That's three.
> Longer rim life. That's four.
> No drag with out-of-true wheels. There's five...


Well, I'm over 200 lbs and live in Colorado where we have a lot of long, steep descents and so far, extended braking with carbon rims hasn't caused me any problems at all. Fail.

Heavy loads/touring... pretty specailized application. Since we're talking UCI and in the pro section, I assumed we were talking "normal" recreational riding/racing. Fail.

Foul weather stopping. Again, fine in theory, but when have *you* or anyone else had enough of a problem with this to justify the down-sides of disc brakes that I listed. 

I'll give you is cyclocross, but again, I said road riding. 

Rim life? Really? How many rims have you worn out from braking? Let's see I've ridden on and off since the '90s and I've worn out ummmm.... ZERO rims. How long do you want/expect your rims to last? Fail. 

Drag on out of true wheels? Really? Isn't that reaching a bit? You'd really buy disk brakes so you could ride with out of true wheels? Fail.

Verdict: Solution in search of a problem - or, more to the point - a market.


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## Cyclo-phile (Sep 22, 2005)

OldChipper said:


> Fail.


Enough with the trolling. If you don't want them on your bike, don't buy them. If we, or the pros, want them on our bikes, it's really none of your concern.


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## eriku16 (Jul 27, 2011)

You can have them... Just don't try to race with them...


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## spade2you (May 12, 2009)

OldChipper said:


> Can't think of a single reason a recreational rider (or even an amateur racer) would want disc brakes. More finnicky "sh!t" to fiddle with. More expensive. More tools to buy. Incompatible wheels between different bikes. Heavier, less aero. All this to solve what problem exactly?
> 
> I'm serious; given these down-sides, please tell me one single problem with rim brakes that you encounter on a regular basis that would justify the negatives of disc brakes on a road bike.
> 
> And, but the way, I'm far from a retro-grouch. I was an early-adopter of indexed shitfting, clipless pedals, brifters, 8, then 9, then 10 speed clusters, compact gearing, GPS cycle-computers, low-spoke count wheels, aero-wheels, aero frames, and currently ride carbon clinchers.


I thought it was tri guys had already been using aero bars, aero helmet, and no front disc wheel while cyclists were using superman bars and a disc wheel in front.


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## Alaska Mike (Sep 28, 2008)

OldChipper said:


> Well, I'm over 200 lbs and live in Colorado where we have a lot of long, steep descents and so far, extended braking with carbon rims hasn't caused me any problems at all. Fail.


You ride in a very different environment than I do, with different road conditions and weather.


OldChipper said:


> Heavy loads/touring... pretty specailized application. Since we're talking UCI and in the pro section, I assumed we were talking "normal" recreational riding/racing. Fail.


Some people consider touring normal. YMMV. 


OldChipper said:


> Foul weather stopping. Again, fine in theory, but when have *you* or anyone else had enough of a problem with this to justify the down-sides of disc brakes that I listed.


Just about every road race/crit I've ever done in the rain. Wet, twisting descents on uneven pavement.


OldChipper said:


> Rim life? Really? How many rims have you worn out from braking? Let's see I've ridden on and off since the '90s and I've worn out ummmm.... ZERO rims. How long do you want/expect your rims to last? Fail.
> Again, rain is the issue. My rims get coated with course road sand/dirt during the course of a rain ride, and that wears any rim material. I have worn out brake tracks, even with regular post-ride cleaning. The other option (not riding in the rain) is not an option when 2-3 months out of your 6 month riding season are wet.
> 
> 
> ...


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