# The annual Garmin tour team thread



## kbiker3111 (Nov 7, 2006)

These have always been fun in the past, so I thought I'd kick it off for this year. Riders are showing their strength at ToC and the Giro and we should get an idea of who's in over the next couple weeks. Who do you think makes the team?

Roster: Garmin-Barracuda - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Locks:
CVV
David Millar
Tyler Farrar
Robbie Hunter
DZ
Tom Danielson (assuming he doesn't completely implode this week)

Likely:
Christophe Le Mevel- Its been reported he didn't ride the Giro in anticipation of the Tour. Also, he's french.
Dan Martin- A good showing at the Vuelta raised his chances and Sideburns eventually needs to see whether all that potential is for real.

Outside looking in:
Haussler- Unless Farrar has some good results by mid June, Haussler won't be needed as a leadout. Isn't his whole season set up around the Olympics anyway?
Johan Vansummeren- A great domestique, but no results this year hurts his chances.
Sep Vanmarcke- It would be good to include him to boost his chances of staying at Garmin next year, but he doesn't really fill a need. Besides, even Boonen is skipping le Tour this year.
Fab Wegmann- Useful as a domestique?
Talansky/Stetina- Too young
Alex Rasmussen- Only if there was a TTT.
Maaskant- Same problem as Sep, only he's older.
Thomas Dekkar- A mildly successful comeback, but he's probably looking at a Vuelta spot.

Out:
Ryder Hesjedal- All his efforts will be at the Giro.


----------



## wiz525 (Dec 31, 2007)

i wouldn't say Farrar is a lock...


----------



## weltyed (Feb 6, 2004)

stetina might make the cut, but they could be worried he is too burned out from the giro. farrar is most likely in. this will probably keep haussler out. then again, with boonen not in the tour...

vansummeren could be there.

tommy dekkar


----------



## kbiker3111 (Nov 7, 2006)

weltyed said:


> stetina might make the cut, but they could be worried he is too burned out from the giro. farrar is most likely in. this will probably keep haussler out. then again, with boonen not in the tour...
> 
> vansummeren could be there.
> 
> tommy dekkar


Stetina is only 24, do you think they'll run him in back to back GTs?


----------



## weltyed (Feb 6, 2004)

kbiker3111 said:


> Stetina is only 24, do you think they'll run him in back to back GTs?


no, i dont. thats why i said _might make the cut but they might be worried about the giro_. then again, garmin doesnt make the greatest decisions when it comes to choosing riders for races. ask thor.


----------



## Sylint (Jul 27, 2009)

Ramunas Navardauskas would be an outside shot as well.

Van Summeran is also probably in, IMO.

Without checking to see if Talansky is in the ToC or Giro (can't remember at the moment), if he's in the ToC I'd say yes for tour, but if it's Giro, probably not.


----------



## spookyload (Jan 30, 2004)

Dan Martin is likely. He was left out of Giro and ToC, and he did perform quite well last year in the Vuelta when he was left out of the Tour. I don't think bobble head will leave him out again. Lets not forget the Haussler soloed to a stage win for a damn long way in the Tour a few years ago. How many other riders for Garmin can say they have won a stage at the Tour already?


----------



## LostViking (Jul 18, 2008)

I've previously been unimpressed by Garmin, but I have to admit that Garmin is doing really well lately - what a contrast to so-called "Superteams" Radio Shanty and BMC!


----------



## slimjw (Jul 30, 2008)

They have been doing better this year and last. Thor definitely made the TDF for them last year but they did well at this years Giro winning the TTT and having Ryder in pink for a few days. At least CVV hasn't crashed out yet...

One thing I have noticed about all these so-called superteams is that they are never very "super" the first year or two despite all the hoopla and spin but if the talent/leadership is good and the organization can coalesce things usually start coming around sooner or later. Sky is finally starting to show what their capable of and Garmin is slowly getting better results.


----------



## den bakker (Nov 13, 2004)

slimjw said:


> Sky is finally starting to show what their capable of and Garmin is slowly getting better results.


That's a bizarre comparison if I ever saw one. One team starts as a US development squad (TIAA-CREF) and works it way up bit by bit. The other got thrown a huge amount of pounds and was asked to buy whoever they wanted.

edited: garmins budget is around 8.5 Meuro, whereas SKY is around 15 Meuro.....


----------



## slimjw (Jul 30, 2008)

den bakker said:


> That's a bizarre comparison if I ever saw one. One team starts as a US development squad (TIAA-CREF) and works it way up bit by bit. The other got thrown a huge amount of pounds and was asked to buy whoever they wanted.
> 
> edited: garmins budget is around 8.5 Meuro, whereas SKY is around 15 Meuro.....


It wasn't a comparison. I was just keeping the post relevant to the OP by commenting on Garmin as well as the comments about "superteams." Apparently I should've drawn more of a distinction between the two in my post...


----------



## LostViking (Jul 18, 2008)

den bakker said:


> That's a bizarre comparison if I ever saw one. One team starts as a US development squad (TIAA-CREF) and works it way up bit by bit. The other got thrown a huge amount of pounds and was asked to buy whoever they wanted.
> 
> edited: garmins budget is around 8.5 Meuro, whereas SKY is around 15 Meuro.....


See New York Yankees - huge budget (the Sky of baseball) - yet other teams with smaller budgets have beaten them to the World Series trophy consistantly.
Proves big-budget does not always equal consistant good results.
That said, I'm sure Sky's big wallet isn't hurting them! :thumbsup:

In a bit of an aside - shouldn't we consider that different teams seem to have various ideas of what "success" means - some are happy with a stage here or there, some want to win as many smaller races as they can, while others seem to focus almost exclusivly on the Tour de France. Sky seems one of the most ambitious in that they seem to want it all - plus Olympic Gold.


----------



## Sylint (Jul 27, 2009)

slimjw said:


> It wasn't a comparison. I was just keeping the post relevant to the OP by commenting on Garmin as well as the comments about "superteams." Apparently I should've drawn more of a distinction between the two in my post...


Well, when you included Garmin in the same paragraph as your superteams comment, it's kinda hard to not think you were saying Garmin was started as a super team, which they weren't.


----------



## DZfan14 (Jul 6, 2009)

Dan Martin should be in, but I think the concern there is his durability. Great climber, but he has bad allergies and is more prone to weird physical issues than even Tommy D.

Farrar is definitely not a lock. He is not on form and they may be wasting a slot on him. Therefefore Hunter is probably not a lock as well.

Haussler is not really on great form, and hasn't been the same since Cav wrecked him a few years ago..... although he did seem to channel Tyler at the TOC by getting second place a great deal. Maybe racing in a GT will put him back over the top physically 

lastly, Ramunas is a total workhorse and I think he returns based on his performance last year. I have not been following him that closely so I have no idea what his form is. I am pretty sure he is in the Giro now and may have been in pink as a result of the TTT.

Garmin may be better off with a team that focuses on a high GC placement this season.


----------



## kbiker3111 (Nov 7, 2006)

Sylint said:


> Well, when you included Garmin in the same paragraph as your superteams comment, it's kinda hard to not think you were saying Garmin was started as a super team, which they weren't.


Good point about Martin. Whats up with all the fragile boys on Garmin?


----------



## Cinelli 82220 (Dec 2, 2010)

kbiker3111 said:


> Johan Vansummeren- A great domestique, but no results


A good domestique doesn't get good results, he helps his leader get good results.


> Ryder Hesjedal- All his efforts will be at the Giro.


He's going to be exhausted for sure. He's riding a tough Giro.


----------



## DZfan14 (Jul 6, 2009)

I think it has to do with JV's penchant for fixer uppers. None of these guys are Andy Schleck fragile though, and they can actually descend.


----------



## coop (Jun 8, 2008)

They talked about Ryder still coming as a helper only, guess it depends on how well he recovers.

The course seems to favor CVV (at least a healthy CVV) more than Tommy D, but I still think they'll use them as co leaders.

They'll have the usual suspects in Millar and DZ.

Agree or not, Farrar will be there, so that means at least 2 helpers for him. Hunter, maybe Fischer or one of the Kreders.

I think one more climber, Martin is the obvious choice, maybe Tom P, or Dekker.


----------



## tazzmacd (Feb 24, 2012)

If Ryder can recover, they might bring him as a helper for the mountains. God knows he has shown tha the can ride them this week.


----------



## moonmoth (Nov 8, 2008)

Here's my guess. Heavily weighted toward GC with Farrar getting a little assistance from Haussler and all-rounders Millar and Vansummeren.

Dan Martin was very close to making last year's squad and he did well in the Vuelta, so I think he gets in this year unless he has a terrible pre-TdF race.

Danielson is in based on #9 last year and ToC podium again this year.



VDV
Hesjedal
Farrar
Zabriskie
Millar
Danielson
Martin
Haussler
Vansummeren

Stetina has definitely earned consideration but I don't think they want to subject him to consecutive GTs at his young age.


----------



## kbiker3111 (Nov 7, 2006)

tazzmacd said:


> If Ryder can recover, they might bring him as a helper for the mountains. God knows he has shown tha the can ride them this week.


Ryder had a fantastic race the last couple weeks, but I don't think Garmin will push him to do the Double. Even if they did, I think Ryder has his eyes on the Olympics.


----------



## erj549 (Jul 26, 2008)

moonmoth said:


> Here's my guess. Heavily weighted toward GC with Farrar getting a little assistance from Haussler and all-rounders Millar and Vansummeren.
> 
> Dan Martin was very close to making last year's squad and he did well in the Vuelta, so I think he gets in this year unless he has a terrible pre-TdF race.
> 
> ...


I'd like to see them leave Farrar off entirely. What's the point of getting 3rd place on a sprint stage? Focus on GC because I think there's a legitimate opportunity with Contador gone and far too much ITT for the Schleck sisters. 

I've always thought VDV could make a decent run at GC if he could only stay healthy long enough. He's running out of time, so I hope he can make it happen.


----------



## moonmoth (Nov 8, 2008)

Unless Farrar doesn't recover from his Giro crash, he's a lock for several reasons, namely his TdF performance last year and his "legacy" status on Garmin. Yes, that matters and is why Millar and Zabriskie also get in each year, regardless of condition.

I agree that TF won't be able to make a dent against Cavendish, Greipel, Kittel (will he be in this year?), and probably Petacchi but they'll still need to put him on the team.


----------



## moonmoth (Nov 8, 2008)

kbiker3111 said:


> Ryder had a fantastic race the last couple weeks, but I don't think Garmin will push him to do the Double. Even if they did, I think Ryder has his eyes on the Olympics.


I thought it was already announced as part of his program that he would be in the TdF? He won't be riding for GC position but he could definitely be a good helper in some of the stages. Kind of like what Savoldelli did a while back for Discovery.


----------



## coop (Jun 8, 2008)

I wonder how much pressure will be on the team now that they have a Grand Tour victory under their belt? There is no way Ryder can do the double from a GC perspective, but from all accounts, it's in his hands as to whether or not he races.
1. VDV
2. Danielson
3. Farrar
4. Millar
5. DZ
6. Martin
7. Hunter
8. Hes J
9. LeMevel

Should Hes J not race, they'll probably bring someone to help the sprint train and/or do the pace making, Fischer, Vanmarcke, Summi, or Navardauskus


----------



## moonmoth (Nov 8, 2008)

I actually think Garmin will be relieved of any pressure at TdF. Their year is already made if they do nothing else this season.


----------



## CabDoctor (Jun 11, 2005)

I would like to see Dekker in there. He would be a big support should they need to either control the races or run tactile interference by placing him in a dangerous break.


----------



## atpjunkie (Mar 23, 2002)

*agreed*



erj549 said:


> I'd like to see them leave Farrar off entirely. What's the point of getting 3rd place on a sprint stage? Focus on GC because I think there's a legitimate opportunity with Contador gone and far too much ITT for the Schleck sisters.
> 
> I've always thought VDV could make a decent run at GC if he could only stay healthy long enough. He's running out of time, so I hope he can make it happen.


better off with another rouler/strong TTer or climbing Dom

why waste a useful GC helper to bring in a sprinter?

if your eyes are on GC, keep them there


----------



## moonmoth (Nov 8, 2008)

atpjunkie said:


> if your eyes are on GC, keep them there


Easier done if you have a history of pure GC ambitions, like Discovery of the past. It's funny because the Garmin of old would have done exactly that. I remember Vaughters saying a few years ago that they couldn't compete with Cavendish and that they would find their niche elsewhere. Then Farrar, who kept saying he was a Belgian-trained classics rider at heart, won a few sprints and all of a sudden Garmin started building trains for him. Now Farrar looks lost in the sprints (Qatar this year was a great example), there's no more Thor to help him out, but he's still their most decorated GC stage winner, so they have to put him and some support on the team. At least for this year, anyway.


----------



## DZfan14 (Jul 6, 2009)

Garmin needs to go for some stage wins. They've proven that they can score Top 10s at Le Tour plenty of times.

Actually, I think they have a better chance at winning a stage with Martinb/VdV/Danielson than Farrar, who hasn't done anything yet this season, and the climbers all seem to be in pretty good form.


----------



## coop (Jun 8, 2008)

Dan Martin +16:39 today at the Dauphine! Haven't seen it yet, but I would imagine he crashed with Sanchez. Hopefully he's okay, but that has to hurt his tour chances if he's too bad off.


----------



## den bakker (Nov 13, 2004)

coop said:


> Dan Martin +16:39 today at the Dauphine! Haven't seen it yet, but I would imagine he crashed with Sanchez. Hopefully he's okay, but that has to hurt his tour chances if he's too bad off.


he crashed but much later in a round about. Was in pretty bad shape.


----------



## kbiker3111 (Nov 7, 2006)

Wow! Ryder going to the tour, I thought there was no chance. Are his eyes bigger than his stomach? Will he be the first in 15 years to do the double? 

http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/hesjedal-heads-to-tour-de-france-with-another-win-on-his-mind


----------



## coop (Jun 8, 2008)

kbiker3111 said:


> Wow! Ryder going to the tour, I thought there was no chance. Are his eyes bigger than his stomach? Will he be the first in 15 years to do the double?
> 
> Hesjedal Heads To Tour De France With Another Win On His Mind | Cyclingnews.com


No!

He may not feel dead post Giro, but he still has 21 days of fairly intense racing in his legs compared to the likes of Evans and Wiggins who are both much better TT riders than him. History is not on his side either, and that's compared to some "questionable" Giro winners who went for the double.

Love Ryder, but still think a Giro Tour double is too much to ask.


----------



## pianopiano (Jun 4, 2005)

I think that if you read the Cyclingnews article carefully, you'll realize that Ryder Hesjedal will be going to the Tour _without_ a win on his mind, just as he did at the Giro. I think that that headline is a little deceiving.


----------



## kbiker3111 (Nov 7, 2006)

???Perhaps I can't read good, but it looks like he's not going to the Tour to ride around in the groupetto.



> he will start as a provisional leader





> All I can think about is that I won the Giro and that I'm in the condition of my life





> But that said, do I want a good Tour? Sure.


----------



## tazzmacd (Feb 24, 2012)

He did say that if called upon he will do what his team needs him to do. They will ride as a team. Maybe they are playing a card that allows him to go, if he can ride then he will go for it, if not maybe be a distraction for once of the other guys.


----------



## coop (Jun 8, 2008)

It's official: 
Ryder
Tommy D
VDV
Dan Martin
Millar
DZ
Johan
Farrar
Hunter


----------



## T K (Feb 11, 2009)

Why even take Farrar? What's he gonna do?


----------



## dougydee (Feb 15, 2005)

Haussler will be pissed!


----------



## Chainstay (Mar 13, 2004)

T K said:


> Why even take Farrar? What's he gonna do?



I think they want to have some American stars. The problem is with Griepel, Kittel, Cav and Sagan, Tyler won't be winning any stages and may not even be placing top three too often


----------



## T K (Feb 11, 2009)

Chainstay said:


> I think they want to have some American stars. The problem is with Griepel, Kittel, Cav and Sagan, Tyler won't be winning any stages and may not even be placing top three too often


Problem is, they keep trying to make Tyler a star but he's really not.
They'd be way better off with Haussler. At least he can make it to the line with the group.


----------



## dougydee (Feb 15, 2005)

Chainstay said:


> I think they want to have some American stars. The problem is with Griepel, Kittel, Cav and Sagan, Tyler won't be winning any stages and may not even be placing top three too often


You can add Goss and Renshaw and probably Freire to that list of riders that Tylar would struggle to get around.


----------



## Dynastar (Jun 8, 2007)

I like Tyler, but he does not have the instincts for world class sprinting. On the sprints that he participates in, I always rewind & watch him. He always gets boxed out (even when he has his own train and clear lane to the finish), goes when he shouldn't, stays when he should go and generally appears lost. Then he pounds the handlebar like he got cheated. 

Its amazing how many times I have seen him box himself in. Then you have Sagan who clips out, runs into a barrier and still wins.


----------



## TerminatorX91 (Mar 27, 2011)

Hesjedal certainly has very strong team to work for him.


----------



## coop (Jun 8, 2008)

Dynastar said:


> I like Tyler, but he does not have the instincts for world class sprinting. On the sprints that he participates in, I always rewind & watch him. He always gets boxed out (even when he has his own train and clear lane to the finish), goes when he shouldn't, stays when he should go and generally appears lost. Then he pounds the handlebar like he got cheated.
> 
> Its amazing how many times I have seen him box himself in. Then you have Sagan who clips out, runs into a barrier and still wins.


Good points, I've noticed that on the sprints he's won in the past it's the exact opposite. He shows a lot of confidence and trusts his abilities. I wonder if all those 2nd - 5th place finishes have shaken him?


----------



## moonmoth (Nov 8, 2008)

dougydee said:


> Haussler will be pissed!


Yeah he will but other than the Tour of California, he hasn't done much this year and he's admitted it. He'd have a few sprinting wins and be on the team for sure if not for a red hot Peter Sagan.


----------



## T K (Feb 11, 2009)

So four 2nd's to the fastest man out there doesn't count for anything?


----------



## erj549 (Jul 26, 2008)

T K said:


> So four 2nd's to the fastest man out there doesn't count for anything?


Four first losers, you mean?


----------



## moonmoth (Nov 8, 2008)

Sounds like Hesjedal is now being positioned as a contender instead of just a helper, although you really cannot read much into pre-Tour stories like this and the poker games that go along with it.

VdV as the backup.


----------

