# New Cannondale SISL2 crankset



## Dan Gerous

Apparently lighter and stiffer...

NEW 484G HOLLOWGRAM SISL CRANKSET FROM CANNONDALE W/ ONE PIECE CHAINRINGS!


----------



## Wookiebiker

Taking "System integration" to a whole new level...Non replaceable chainrings.


----------



## EuroSVT

Damned sexy


----------



## Dan Gerous

The price to pay for lightness and stiffness I guess. But it's not the first time Cannondale does this, at least now you can change the spidering, the old CODA integrated crank had the rings and drive-side arm made of a single piece.

The old spiders should be compatible with the new arms and spindles...

Not too fond of the spider web lines on the ring. Nothing a sharpie can't fix!


----------



## EuroSVT

Can someone explain the line on the arm in picture 3?


----------



## Dan Gerous

EuroSVT said:


> Can someone explain the line on the arm in picture 3?


It was always there on the first and current SL Hollowgrams. The arms are made from two machined halves (which allows them to precisely shave material off the inside, in part how they manage to make it so light yet so stiff) that are then bonded together, that line is the bond.


----------



## EuroSVT

Thanks Dan for the info.


----------



## Dan Gerous

Just to show how the SL looks before it's bonded:


----------



## Bad Ronald

Dan Gerous said:


> Not too fond of the spider web lines on the ring. Nothing a sharpie can't fix!


Yeah but it's the SpideRing!


----------



## tlg

Dan Gerous said:


> Just to show how the SL looks before it's bonded:


Thanks for that. That's quite interesting. Do you know how they're bonded together?


----------



## Dan Gerous

Bad Ronald said:


> Yeah but it's the SpideRing!


Oh don't worry, that wouldn't stop me from getting them! Too bad it wont be available in time from my new bike build project...



tlg said:


> Thanks for that. That's quite interesting. Do you know how they're bonded together?


Not exactly sure.


----------



## tranzformer

In addition to Dan's pictures above, here is a picture of the inside of the SISL crank arms:













Dan Gerous said:


> Not exactly sure.


They use an epoxy for bonding the two halves together.


----------



## Matador-IV

*Ya know..........*



tranzformer said:


> in addition to dan's pictures above, here is a picture of the inside of the sisl crank arms:


you should have both hands on the wheel when traveling at that speed.


----------



## tranzformer

Matador-IV said:


> you should have both hands on the wheel when traveling at that speed.


Not me who took that picture, it is from another cycling forum. But I agree otherwise.


----------



## Sharknose

Love it. Agree with Dan - black it out completely and it's deadly cool. 484g is impressive. Wonder when we'll see them on Team Liquigas-Cannondale.


----------



## tranzformer

Sharknose said:


> Love it. Agree with Dan - black it out completely and it's deadly cool. 484g is impressive. Wonder when we'll see them on Team Liquigas-Cannondale.



If this setup is 484g per BikeRumor (spidering, SiSL2 crank arms, crank bolts and spindle), then there isn't that big of difference from the current Hollowgrams. Estimate that difference at less than 20g.


----------



## NWS Alpine

tranzformer said:


> If this setup is 484g per BikeRumor (spidering, SiSL2 crank arms, crank bolts and spindle), then there isn't that big of difference from the current Hollowgrams. Estimate that difference at less than 20g.


I thought the current hollowgrams are 580g? That's almost 100g reduction.


----------



## tranzformer

NWS Alpine said:


> I thought the current hollowgrams are 580g? That's almost 100g reduction.


This article mentions 484g for a compact crankset. A similar SISL compact is ~570g all in. That is with the crank arms, spider, chainrings, BB30 bearings, bearing shields, spacers...etc.










Remember what the article from BikeRumor says. The 484g is for: *spidering, SiSL2 crank arms, crank bolts and spindle*. Unless it also includes the BB30 bearings, we are looking at much less difference. 

SISL compact crankset:

DS and NDS crankarms + spider + MKV chainrings + chainring bolts: 423g
Spindle: 60g
Crank arm bolts: 15g


Total for above is 498g and is similar parts to the "spider ring, SISL2 crank arms, crank bolts and spindle." I got those weights from the WW forum where they have them listed. Guess the issue is whether the BR listed weight includes the BB30 bearings. From their article it does not seem so.


----------



## Dan Gerous

The 484gr is without bearings...


----------



## tranzformer

Dan Gerous said:


> The 484gr is without bearings...



So add in weight of BB30 bearings, bearing shields, and spacers and the weight difference is probably going to be around 20g difference? Maybe 30g max all in with everything?

Edit: Estimate around 65g for BB30 bearings and 5-10g for bearing shields and spacer?


----------



## Dan Gerous

I always take claimed weights with a grain of salt, especially before a product is released... But there is more to it than just a weight loss, I'm curious about the increased stiffness...


----------



## tranzformer

Dan Gerous said:


> I always take claimed weights with a grain of salt, especially before a product is released... But there is more to it than just a weight loss, I'm curious about the increased stiffness...



The Hollowgram SI and Hollowgram SISL are crazy stiff as it is (more than DA 7800 crank). I have never read of anyone stating they thought the Hollowgram was a noodle. :thumbsup:


----------



## Dan Gerous

tranzformer said:


> The Hollowgram SI and Hollowgram SISL are crazy stiff as it is (more than DA 7800 crank). I have never read of anyone stating they thought the Hollowgram was a noodle. :thumbsup:


Yeah they're already among the stiffest cranksets. Arms are stiff, spindle, BB30... I doubt I could feel the stiffness increase there but the spider and chainrings could benefit from being stiffer, less side to side deflection would probably enhance shifting and power transmission.


----------



## tranzformer

I agree that the Mk chainrings could benefit from being stiffer. One reason I would recommend Stronglight CT2 chainrings or maybe those new Praxis if you can afford them. If you need the latest and greatest, I could see that. But a current SISL with new chainrings could very well be as stiff as the new SISL2? But I agree, the increased stiffness is interesting. But not sure it will make a difference for me to upgrade? Who knows.


----------



## skaruda_23

Dan Gerous said:


> Just to show how the SL looks before it's bonded:


Dan, do you know how they make that interlocking finger and groove system on the crank arms? They are so thin and have to fit so precisely. I wonder if they can simply be traditionally machined or if they are done with some exotic manufacturing process.


----------



## tranzformer

skaruda_23 said:


> Dan, do you know how they make that interlocking finger and groove system on the crank arms? They are so thin and have to fit so precisely. I wonder if they can simply be traditionally machined or if they are done with some exotic manufacturing process.


CNC machined.


----------



## skaruda_23

tranzformer said:


> CNC machined.


That's what I was assuming. With a very tiny end mill!


----------



## Dan Gerous

Yes, CNC machined... Don't know if it's still the case, but they had two CNC machines working full time just to make these crankarms in Bedford...


----------



## lemonlime

*Imo*

Blech! That thing is fugly!


----------



## tlg

tranzformer said:


> They use an epoxy for bonding the two halves together.


Do you know that for sure? I would've imagined they were vacuum brazed together.



skaruda_23 said:


> That's what I was assuming. With a very tiny end mill!


I doubt it, they probably use a slitting cutter or slot mill. 

















And most likely they're using a tripple stacked set up (similar to below) and doing all three cuts in one pass. If not, they're fools and adding tripple the machine time.


----------



## tranzformer

tlg said:


> Do you know that for sure? I would've imagined they were vacuum brazed together.


http://forums.roadbikereview.com/cannondale/cannondale-hollowgrams;-manufacturing-steps-271250.html



Yes. You can also call Cannondale if you want and talk to them by phone and they would be happy to tell you about the cranks. There is nothing new about bonding metal alloy parts together.


----------



## vanerven

*Crank length*

Will there be crank lengths in excess of 175mm? Would like to see 177.5 and even 180mm versions (like DA has).


----------



## Dan Gerous

It's growing on me....


----------



## texascyclist

I am guessing that the white spider web detail can rub off with some acetone.


----------



## rs2011

vanerven said:


> Will there be crank lengths in excess of 175mm? Would like to see 177.5 and even 180mm versions (like DA has).


or even 165mm


----------



## Dan Gerous

rs2011 said:


> or even 165mm


I don't know about longer arms but there will be 165mm arms now...


----------



## twiggy

Dan Gerous said:


> It's growing on me....


I LOVE it..... want, but will never justify the $$ unless I somehow break my current Red Cranks!


----------



## s2ktaxi

where does the powermeter go?


----------



## Dan Gerous

You'll still be able to install a SRM or Quark spider with standard rings. The SpideRing is just the integration of a spider and the two rings, it still is separate from the crankarm and can be switched just like before for those needing powermeters or less common chainring sizes.


----------



## CHL

Dan Gerous said:


> You'll still be able to install a SRM or Quark spider with standard rings. The SipeRing is just the integration of a spider and the two rings, it still is separate from the crankarm and can be switched just like before for those needing powermeters or less common chainring sizes.


One thing though, you'll have to buy compatible chainrings for the group you're going to run, Campagnolo 11/10, Shimano 11, Shimano/SRAM 10. I wonder what will Cannondale offer. It's suicide not to support Shimano but will Cannondale also provide compatibility for SRAM that remains 10 Speed and for Campanolo 11, which isn't as popular as either SRAM/Shimano, at least in the US market.

At least with the SI SL, you had choices of chainrings, SRAM, Shimano, FSA, Specialites TA, Stronglight, Praxis or even the privately branded models, if you didn't favor the MKVs.


----------



## mdiehl

Can anyone comment on the stiffness of the A. Hollowgram sisl, B. Hollowgram sisl2, and/or C. new 3D forged hollowgram vs. the Hollowgram si?


----------



## s2ktaxi

Dan Gerous said:


> You'll still be able to install a SRM or Quark spider with standard rings. The SipeRing is just the integration of a spider and the two rings, it still is separate from the crankarm and can be switched just like before for those needing powermeters or less common chainring sizes.


is the weight savings from the arms or the integrated spider/rings?

Going with the Mk V rings on a Quarq/SRM powermeter spider won't provide the stiffness improvements though. Currently, running SRAM Red and Mk V chainrings, I find the shifting not as predictable or smooth as my DA7800.


----------



## tranzformer

mdiehl said:


> Can anyone comment on the stiffness of the A. Hollowgram sisl, B. Hollowgram sisl2, and/or C. new 3D forged hollowgram vs. the Hollowgram si?




I don't think anyone on this forum has experience with either B and/or C at this point since they have not been released to market yet. Will have to give it several more months. My LBS said late summer/early fall from what they have heard. But as most things with Cannondale, timing and logistics isn't their strong suit. 

Stiffness of the SISL compared to SI? Supposedly the SISL and SI have very similar stiffness with the SISL being slightly stiffer. However it is much much lighter, as a result has a higher stiffness to weight ratio than the SI version. Here are some numbers I saw posted regarding the Hollowgram crank that Cannondale tested in 2005.


Dura Ace benchmark 7800 : 745 g (include bb), 854 g/in (stiffness)
Cannondale SI Carbon : 734 g (incl BB), 855 g/in (stiffness)
Cannondale SI : 660 g (incl BB), 939 g/in (stiffness)

The SISL is about ~90-100g lighter than the SI version depending on compact vs standard. 

The SI is a great crank and I have it on one frame. I also have SISL cranks on two other frames. If you don't need to save 100g and don't mind the crank being silver, a used SI is a great pickup. They usually go for around $275-325 depending on condition.


----------



## skaruda_23

tlg said:


> Do you know that for sure? I would've imagined they were vacuum brazed together.
> 
> I doubt it, they probably use a slitting cutter or slot mill.
> 
> And most likely they're using a tripple stacked set up (similar to below) and doing all three cuts in one pass. If not, they're fools and adding tripple the machine time.


Thanks for the info, always enjoy learning about tooling. It would make a lot of sense for them to do it this way.


----------



## hypercycler

I like the rings esp they have 11 spd available. I was about to place an order for the Praxis rings til I see this. Currently running MKVs with 11 spd, not a good combo but damn they are light... >.>


----------



## NWS Alpine

Dan Gerous do you know is Praxis Works is making the spidering? The are saying "no comment" which makes me think yes. The forging, ramps, anondized finish all scream Praxis Works. If this is true then I would expect shifting to be equal or better than dura-ace.


----------



## Dan Gerous

For now we just have Cannondale claims about the stiffness and weights. The new arms are supposedly 15gr lighter than the SL arms (for one or a pair? I'm not sure) but slightly stiffer, the new spindle a few grams lighter and marginally stiffer and the 3D forged Hollowgram is claimed to be the same weight as the original Hollowgram but stiffer and cheaper. I'd guess the SpideRing is where the added stiffness is the most important as the previous spiders + MK V rings were, not noodles but average in stiffness. A one piece chainring and spider can potentially have a much higher stiffness to weight ratio.

There is currently 4 SpideRing versions announced. 10 speed and 11 speed models in both compact and standard so there are option compatible with SRAM, Shimano and Campagnolo. On cross bikes or if you want specific not as common chainring sizes or non-round rings, you'll just be able to use a spider like the current Hollowgram SL. And I'm guessing the Liquigas guys will keep riding SRM spiders and SRAM chainrings... My guess is the current spiders will still be available. Bolt-on compact, bolt-on standard, SRM and Quark...

No clue who makes the new SpideRing, if done in house or sub-contracted. The SL arms were made in Bedford, the SISL² arms will still be US made.

Edit: a SpideRing will cost around 150$

Cannondale Expand Hollowgram Crank Offerings - BikeRadar


----------



## bikerjulio

looks like someone put on a compact crankset and forgot to adjust the front derailleur.

just being picky.


----------



## Zachariah

tranzformer said:


> In addition to Dan's pictures above, here is a picture of the inside of the SISL crank arms:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> They use an epoxy for bonding the two halves together.


Ted, is your Check Engine Light on?


----------



## s2ktaxi

Zachariah said:


> Ted, is your Check Engine Light on?


Maybe because it's missing a crank


----------



## mdloc0

hey guys - thanks for the updates on the info. 

I know this sounds stupid. But the current bikes that are out there (australia) Would they have the new sram red on them or not? Wanting to buy an evo red, but not to sure on the choice. get an 2012 as a run out or wait. I heard the changes in the new and old sram is worth the wait but i can't see the advantages of waiting for the 2013 evo? Other than the crank it's going to be the same? Correct? 

I thought i read that a bike shop had a evo with the new red on it but i could be wrong. 

Ride a Alloy Snypace at the moment with 105, 2012 v's 2013 in the evo red? 

Thanks
Matthew


----------



## metoou2

Alright...........what the HECK Cannondale Forum?!!!
I have to go to a completely different Forum site to see a 2012 SiSL 2 Hollowgram taken apart and displayed for all to see? C'mom this is the 'Cannondale' Forum.
The new spindle is 109mm and it is drilled out. I've heard rumors of (I made up rumors of), nano carbon, no nuts bolts. One of you out there is holding out on us. Give up the goods.

And don't look at me, I haven't got the cash to bring home one of those babies.


----------



## zamboni

Dan Gerous said:


> It's growing on me....


Dan,

Do you know when Cannondale releasing the spider ring for Campy11?


----------



## Dan Gerous

metoou2 said:


> Alright...........what the HECK Cannondale Forum?!!!
> I have to go to a completely different Forum site to see a 2012 SiSL 2 Hollowgram taken apart and displayed for all to see? C'mom this is the 'Cannondale' Forum.
> The new spindle is 109mm and it is drilled out. I've heard rumors of (I made up rumors of), nano carbon, no nuts bolts. One of you out there is holding out on us. Give up the goods.
> 
> And don't look at me, I haven't got the cash to bring home one of those babies.


I thought all the info and pictures were already there since a long time ago?

Things we knew for a long time: the new spindle is more machined (what you refer as drilled out? It has no drilled/machined holes though) and it has no aligning lip, spacers on both sides take care of side to side alignment. I'm guessing that allows less different parts, a lighter overall setup and maybe compatibility with frames that are not true 68mm wide BB30/PF30 (think those with the non-driveside bearings further out). Also known for a while, the SpideRing uses the same mounting interface as the old spiders so it is compatible with SI and SL cranksets, old spiders are also compatible with the SISL² arms...

I also started rumors months ago (unintentionally, I was just saying things I'd like to see) that the non-driveside arm and the spindle would be OPI, a single part with no bolts or spacers needed but still alloy. That would not be as practical as you could not swap cranks for road and mtb, you'd lose the Hollowgram's customizable Q-factor too... But... the SISL² just got released, they wont release a new one this year, it's already one of the lightest, stiffest, nicest, toughest crankset on the market.


----------



## Dan Gerous

zamboni said:


> Dan,
> 
> Do you know when Cannondale releasing the spider ring for Campy11?


Just the after market part? They make (or will make) 4 different SpideRings. A 10 speed 53/39, a 10 speed 50/34, a 11 speed 53/39 and a 11 speed 50/34... The 11 speed SpideRings will work with both Shimano and Campagnolo 11 speed chains. Usually, they'll start by putting the parts on complete bikes and when the first big batches of new bike orders are filled, they'll be available as aftermarket parts... I haven't heard a date as to when that will be...


----------



## zamboni

Thanks Dan and will be on a look out for the Campy 11 to replace FSA rings.Shimano 11 spds is on the Cannondale catalog and hopefully they will start selling them as spare part at a later time.


----------



## Dan Gerous

zamboni said:


> Thanks Dan and will be on a look out for the Campy 11 to replace FSA rings.Shimano 11 spds is on the Cannondale catalog and hopefully they will start selling them as spare part at a later time.


I'll probably get a SpideRing too once my MK-V rings wear out... MSRP is around 150$.


----------



## Supermagnum

Hi all !!!

What do you think of this?

monolithic since 2009, 100% made ​​in Italy, 100% CNC

www.omc-italia.com

www.facebook.com/omcitalia

video replacement plateau monolithic

:thumbsup:


----------



## Dan Gerous

Supermagnum said:


> Hi all !!!
> 
> What do you think of this?
> 
> monolithic since 2009, 100% made ​​in Italy, 100% CNC
> 
> www.omc-italia.com
> 
> www.facebook.com/omcitalia
> 
> video replacement plateau monolithic
> 
> :thumbsup:


Well, it's quite heavier than a Hollowgram for starts....


----------



## metoou2

I'm not gettin ya Big Dan.............?
Are you saying that all of these known modifications are out on the Interwebs or that they are here in this Cannondale Forum / Thread? 
I read all (3) pages on this Thread and I don't see any pics of a dis-assembled SiSl 2.
I always come here first for the skinny on Cannondale tech. Its easier than scanning the net. Maybe coming here first is a mistake. 
I know the SiSl 2 is the latest release. I'm not asking about a generation 'after' the SiSl 2 cranks. 

For your viewing pleasure;
a 'drilled out' spindle from a new SiSl 2 (look at the small holes going around the splines) (I had heard of the fact more material was to be removed from the I.D. But had NOT heard that it would be drilled out as well) 

And here is the latest crank arm fixing bolt in black. It is shorter than the standard 'green' bolt. (I haven't seen any mention of these innovations in the RBR Forums)


----------



## metoou2

And talking about the compatibility of the Spide ring and the 2nd gen. Sl Hollowgram arms.
Yes, Spide may drop onto the 2nd gen. Sl drive side arm. And the lock ring may snug up........I really don't know haven't seen it live and in person.
But, without that 109mm spindle I don't "think" you will be able mount a 2nd gen. Sl drive side arm, complete with Spide ring on a frame. I've looked at the Dealer Parts lists and exploded drawings. 
This 109mm spindle isn't for SRM clearance as others have speculated. For SRM clearance, Cannondale is still selling the (2) alloy cups and bearings to replace the PF30 btm bracket that has that fat / thick outer lip.
I don't think Spide likes the 104mm spindle, that most of us have.


----------



## Supermagnum

Dan Gerous said:


> Well, it's quite heavier than a Hollowgram for starts....


Oh yes.... Cannondale copy OMC-ITALIA


----------



## Dan Gerous

Supermagnum said:


> Oh yes.... Cannondale copy OMC-ITALIA


Well, Cannondale had a one piece machined rings-spider about 15 years ago... so Cannondale copying OMC-ITALIA, I think not...


----------



## Supermagnum

Dan Gerous said:


> Well, Cannondale had a one piece machined rings-spider about 15 years ago... so Cannondale copying OMC-ITALIA, I think not...





He copied the system after it has changed the pin.

I do not mean the monolithic.


----------



## metoou2

Any takers? Anyone know for sure?
If someone chooses to run the Spide ring will they also have to install the 109mm spindle?


----------



## trauma-md

First. The new 109mm set up will accommodate SRM without any modification. 

Second. The SISL2 cranks do not require the new spindle. You should be able to mix and match the new arms with the old spindle. 

Lastly, still not sure about clearance of the spidering on the old spindle. 

Here's a pic of the non drive side of my spindle, it is indeed drilled. 

View attachment 265546


----------



## metoou2

Good input Trauma, keep it up!

I saw on a different Forum;
Poster sent e-mail to C'Dale Tech asking if he could use the new 109mm spindle with his 2nd gen. SL Hollowgram arms.
Tech replied; *The new spindle will not work with your set up .It will only work with the SL2 asymmetric crank arms.*
Tech is most likely just quoting the 'approved Cannondale response'. 

Same Thread in that Forum, different poster, this guy installed SiSl 2 arms on his old school 104mm spindle with no problems.
*I installed my hollowgram SRM on the wifes bike and in he process, had to swap the 175mm SISL arms for 170's. Bought a new set of arms on Ebay for what I considered a good price but did not pay attention to the images and was pleasantly surprised to find the 170's were SISL2 which I installed with no issues with the original spindle.*

Regarding the Spide ring; 
printed in the Dealer Handbook on the page showing both the SiSl 2 and the forged Si cranks it says the following; " Spidering is retrofittable [sic] to all Hollowgram cranks".

That is of course a very generalized statement. The fine details may indicate you need the 109mm spindle to bolt up and run the Spide. 

I'm curious about the comment about 'asymmetric' arms............
does the 2013 SiSl 2 have asymmetric arms?
does the 2013 Si forged crank have aymmetric arms?

And I suppose the BIG question is; why a 109mm spindle? What is its purpose?
Dealer Handbook drawings show SISL 2 with a 109mm spindle and the forged Si crank using a 104mm spindle.


----------



## kentbrockman

trauma-md said:


> First. The new 109mm set up will accommodate SRM without any modification.
> 
> Second. The SISL2 cranks do not require the new spindle. You should be able to mix and match the new arms with the old spindle.
> 
> Lastly, still not sure about clearance of the spidering on the old spindle.
> 
> Here's a pic of the non drive side of my spindle, it is indeed drilled.
> 
> View attachment 265546


Couple setup ?'s. With the SiSL2/SRM what DS spacers are you using? Also, should the NDS wave washer be completely compressed when all assembled?


----------



## Dan Gerous

Ouch! I don't know what happened of the 150$ MSRP or if it's just a price boost as it's still very rare but... 325$ for a SpideRing.


----------



## hypercycler

$150 MSRP I think it's a "good" deal but if it's $325, I'm cancelling my order...


----------



## metoou2

yikes.........................ugly and expensive!


----------



## tony604

dang $325 instead of $150, though i'm not suprised


----------



## tranzformer

Come on guys, you gotta buy the new SISL2 cranks. That way I can pick up a used SISL crank for a good price.


----------



## CHL

Guys:

Remember, you're buying an integrated spider and chainring assembly. Yeah, so the price will jump from a single spider or a single set of chainrings. Look at the integrated handlebars/stem combos such as the FSA Plasma or the Cinelli Ram. Those things cost nearly as much as my CAAD9 frameset. 

You will easily pay $250 for DA 7900 chainrings. Cannondale's $325.00 isn't out of line at all. In Cannondale's defense the cost of Hollowgram SL is close to Campagnolo or Shimano offerings. 

Get ride of my Super Six HM? Sure, I'll entertain that. Get rid of my Hollowgrams or my CAAD9? Are you out of your mind??

C.


----------



## Yamabushi

At ± $200 I was prepared to give with the Spiderings a try, but at $325 they've suddenly become a lot less attractive. :sad:


----------



## taurine1

*I just put the SiSL2 spider crank on my evo......*

upgrade over the Si crank that came stock on my evo ultegra di2 bike.

Just changing the crankset, the bike weight dropped 0.2 lbs (now down to 15.95 lbs).
Not only is it lighter, but it's definitely stiffer. I can feel the difference between the SiSL2 and Si.

I'm happy w/ the purchase, and it came w/ both the compact and standard spider chainrings, so pretty good deal.


----------



## metoou2

taurine1 said:


> upgrade over the Si crank that came stock on my evo ultegra di2 bike.
> 
> Just changing the crankset, the bike weight dropped 0.2 lbs (now down to 15.95 lbs).
> Not only is it lighter, but it's *definitely stiffer*. I can feel the difference between the SiSL2 and Si.




Please elaborate on this 'feeling' your having. Define stiff for us all.

Stiffer;
shifting up from the small to the big ring, the SiSl2 is stiffer than the Si crank?
your sprinting for the line in you local crit and the SiSL2 made all the difference?
While climbing, you could FEEL the arms of your Si cranks actually flexing vertically, or maybe 'side to side'. And now that you fitted the SiSL2's the flexing has vanished?
You could FEEL the spindle of the Si cranks flexing / moving, but the SiSL2 spindle does none of this?


----------



## NWS Alpine

I just installed the SiSL replacing the Sram Force I had on my CAAD10. The cranks are stiffer and I can feel it. This is both out of saddle and shifting. 

I run praxis rings with Red Yaw fd and the shift are instant and dead silent. The SiSl stiffness is noticeable in this respect.

Now if Praxis is making the spidering which I believe they are I would imagine the shifting performance of this ring to be amazing. I will be getting one if anything happens to my current praxis rings or I stumble on a deal for the spidering.


----------



## ringmaster

taurine1 said:


> upgrade over the Si crank that came stock on my evo ultegra di2 bike.
> 
> Just changing the crankset, the bike weight dropped 0.2 lbs (now down to 15.95 lbs).
> Not only is it lighter, but it's definitely stiffer. I can feel the difference between the SiSL2 and Si.
> 
> I'm happy w/ the purchase, and it came w/ both the compact and standard spider chainrings, so pretty good deal.


*Very nice!* I thought these weren't on the market yet?? Would you mind telling us where you got them and approx price?


----------



## hypercycler

My LBS just got 2 sets SiSL2 in... Listed for $795 and I have a 20% coupon with me... Hmmm


----------



## metoou2

Stop pecking away on your keyboard and get those cranks!


----------



## ringmaster

hypercycler said:


> My LBS just got 2 sets SiSL2 in... Listed for $795 and I have a 20% coupon with me... Hmmm


Do it 

Are you in North America or ???

Curious where I can find these cranks.


----------



## hypercycler

Ya I'm in Los Angeles area. I think they are out but in limited qty. The same bike shop just got a Black Edition EVO in too. Funny how I had ordered the Spidering with the same LBS and Cannondale told them it won't be available until Jan.


----------



## metoou2

hypercycler said:


> Funny how I had ordered the Spidering with the same LBS and Cannondale told them it won't be available until Jan.


Maybe Cannondale is beginning to wise up. 
Promise long and deliver short to make everyone happy.


----------



## taurine1

Cannondale experts have them in stock, but you'll have to pay msrp.
Contact them, and see if they will give discount (10% off) as 1st time buyer.

Complete Cranks - CannondaleExperts.com

Nevermind. They're out of SiSL2 already. That was fast.
But, contact them and see if they will get another shipment soon.


----------



## Boralb

My evo duraace arrived with the 53/39 spidering only. 
According to Cannondale, they will send the compact spidering separately until the end of December.


----------



## metoou2

taurine1 said:


> Cannondale experts have them in stock, but you'll have to pay msrp.
> Contact them, and see if they will give discount (10% off) as 1st time buyer.
> 
> Complete Cranks - CannondaleExperts.com
> 
> Nevermind. They're out of SiSL2 already. That was fast.
> But, contact them and see if they will get another shipment soon.


Cannondale Experts has them listed in a diff. area, not sure why?

Road Crankset - CannondaleExperts.com


----------



## Creakyknees

this thread pertains to my interests.


----------



## hypercycler

Anyone knows if the Spiderings come in both 10 speed and 11 speed? I remember it was mentioned when launch but my LBS said they only came 2 models (50/34 & 53/39), will work on both 10 / 11 speed. 

Tks.


----------



## NWS Alpine

yes it works with both


----------



## metoou2

Creakyknees said:


> this thread pertains to my interests.


Creaky,
didn't know you were a fan of Cannondale. Do you ride a Cannondale road bike or only interested in the Hollowgrams?


----------



## Creakyknees

metoou2 said:


> Creaky,
> didn't know you were a fan of Cannondale. Do you ride a Cannondale road bike or only interested in the Hollowgrams?


Dood I've been on c'dales since the 80's.


----------



## metoou2

And you've got the pics to prove it! 
That's just great. What are those weird little levers on the down tube....................just kiddin.

My first Cannondale was the 1994 2.8 crit frame. It was that deep, midnight blue. After several thousand miles it cracked and that was a very, very sad day.


----------



## aclinjury

OK this thread is a little interesting to me because some of you are saying you could FEEL the difference in stiffness. But I'd love to see an an actual quantitative test and what that means to actual on the road results. (But I realize I will not get this answer because nobody is going to test them). However, I ask this because one of you in here said that the previous SIS crank is stiffer than the Dura Ace 7800, so that makes the SIS2 even more stiffer than the DA 7800. 

However, the guys on Team Sky were using the DA 7800 crankarms with their SRM powermeters. These guys are pushing 400W+ staying seated when they climb, and in the case of Cavendish 1400W+ when he's sprinting for the line.

So thus, I'm a little curious what the "stiffness numbers" are for the SIS2, or whether the "feeling" is more placebo than actual.


----------



## metoou2

The best part about all these 'feelings' floating around is the member above got the HYPE backwards.

Cannondale claims that the new design 2013 forged Si is the stiffest Hollowgram ever made.
He had the 2013 forged Si on his bike, pulled it off and installed the 2013 SiSl 2. And then proclaimed that the SiSl 2's are stiffer.

I don't think Lee Majors and his Six Million dollar legs could detect these 'feelings'. 
People get swept up into the hype and then have to make a proclamation to the world about there really cool new gear.


I've ridden numerous cranks made from all sorts of materials. I own the 2008 design SL Hollowgrams. They rock, their hot, but I'm not going to claim that they are stiffer than the XYZ crank. What's the point? 

I'm proud for every Cannondale owner showing off their new kit. The more Cannondale being bought the better for all of us. Ya just don't have to go on about how things 'feel'. Let one of those labs produce some numbers and we can all huddle around the data and oooo and ahhhh about it then.


----------



## moonwatch

Did you use the 104mm spindle that came with the Si crank? Or the new 109mm spindle and bottom bracket set.

I just purchased the Si SL2 crank with spidering for may CAAD10 and wonder whether the 104mm spindle bottom bracket set would fit.


----------



## metoou2

Well moonwatch, the jury is still out on that issue.
I'm running all traditional components; 2008 designed SL Hollowgrams with MKV rings (53/39) with 104mm spindle (non-srm)

This is what Cannondale Experts is saying;

*



Cannondale Hollowgram SiSL2 109mm Road Spindle - KP250

The new SiSL2 Hollowgram road 109mm spindle. Cannondale has redesigned this spindle to work optimally with the new Hollowgram design.

It is lighter and looks a little different than the previous road spindle. You will notice there is no shoulder on this spindle and you will need to look at the end and it is written which is the drive side.

As shown in the diagram a complete bottom bracket for the SiSL2 crankset requires specific drive and non drive side spacers.

Click to expand...

*
I would say to bolt up your new SiSl 2's to your existing 104mm spindle and see how it fits.
If you need to THEN get the 109mm, it can be had on e-Bay.
Cannondale Experts on the Bay is Infinite Cycles

Cannondale Hollowgram SISL2 109mm Road Spindle KP250 | eBay


----------



## metoou2

Moonwatch, let us know what you decide to do and how it went.


----------



## moonwatch

I got my Si SL2 from Infinite Cycles, I don't have the spindle or the bottom bracket yet and Infinite Cycles only have the 109mm in-stock and not the whole bottom bracket set. That's why I am checking whether the 104mm spindle bottom bracket set would also work.


----------



## metoou2

that's a tough call..............
I would follow Cannondale's guide lines and run the 109mm spindle.

You can get all the individual 'pieces' to a btm brkt kit. The problem would most likely be trying to find those (2) new spacers that are required for the 109mm spindle. 

If you have cash to burn, then get the 104mm complete kit and give it a try.


----------



## metoou2

Try and get through to the tech guys at Cannondale tomorrow. good luck

Send a pm to member; trauma-md
He may have experimented with what you are facing.


----------



## hypercycler

My compact spidering just arrived at the LBS and I had it installed. I didn't get a chance to weight it but it's light, not that much lighter then the MK V chainrings but it's noticeably stiffer. The shifting performance is quick and precise. Way better then the MK V and FSA chainrings I had on the Hollowgram SiSL in terms of performance. Not cheap at $250. Oh also they didn't come in 2 versions for 10 and 11 speed as planned, just either compact or standard.


----------



## Yamabushi

hypercycler said:


> My compact spidering just arrived at the LBS and I had it installed. I didn't get a chance to weight it but it's light, not that much lighter then the MK V chainrings but it's noticeably stiffer. The shifting performance is quick and precise. Way better then the MK V and FSA chainrings I had on the Hollowgram SiSL in terms of performance. Not cheap at $250. Oh also they didn't come in 2 versions for 10 and 11 speed as planned, just either compact or standard.


Interesting! The compact Spidering is on my wish list for 2013. Please, keep us updated with your experiences over the next 6 months or so.


----------



## itou13

*SISL2 52/39 to 50/34*



hypercycler said:


> My compact spidering just arrived at the LBS and I had it installed. I didn't get a chance to weight it but it's light, not that much lighter then the MK V chainrings but it's noticeably stiffer. The shifting performance is quick and precise. Way better then the MK V and FSA chainrings I had on the Hollowgram SiSL in terms of performance. Not cheap at $250. Oh also they didn't come in 2 versions for 10 and 11 speed as planned, just either compact or standard.


Hello I just read that you have change on your Cdale Supersix the 52/39 spider to a 50/34. To do so you have used the KT012; but did you also use the KT013 to remove the crankarm, or is it not necessary? Thanks for answering, Regards, Cyrille (from France)


----------



## hypercycler

I had the bike shop to do the swap for me but yes I believe you need the KT013 to remove the crankarm and the KT012 to remove the spider. Without getting the crankarm off you are not able to take the spider out.


----------



## nathanbal

does anyone know whether i can run the spidering with a standard set of hollowgram SLs? bike shop is saying i have to install the new spindle to be able to run the spidering. doesn't make a lot of sense to me though?


----------



## hypercycler

Yes I had the compact spidering installed on my Hollowgram SL (2012 EVO). No new spindle / washer needed, just re-adjust the FD a bit.


----------



## nathanbal

hypercycler said:


> Yes I had the compact spidering installed on my Hollowgram SL (2012 EVO). No new spindle / washer needed, just re-adjust the FD a bit.


thanks. i dont know what my LBS are on... they are saying that the stock spindle (104mm) isn't long enough and when the driveside is tourqued down, the cranks can't turn.

any thoughts what they might be doing wrong? i dont want to drop another $200 on the new BB assembly if i dont have to!


----------



## hypercycler

I had my LBS do the installation so can't give you first hand info, sorry. However just took a quick look of my bike, they used one wave washer on the driveside in between the lockring and the bearing, and there's no spacer / washer on the non-driveside. The spindle is an 104mm (came off from my 10' SuperSix's Hollowgram SL). I really don't see why a longer spindle needed if you are just replacing the spider and the chainrings.
View attachment 275079
View attachment 275080


----------



## Dan Gerous

I just checked a SpideRing VS a normal Hollowgram SL spider, both are not mounted on cranksets... the two are the same thickness where they mate with the crankarm (I eyeballed it, not measured with precise instruments). I can't see any reasons why the SpideRing wouldn't fit on SL arms and 104mm spindles. Even the actual rings look like they wont require much re-adjustments of the front derailleur, should be mnimal. Cannondale guys, when they showed the 2013 bikes and parts to the reps/shops/media have said that the SpideRings could be fitted on every generation of Hollowgrams: original SI, SL, SISL2 and 3D forged SI without any issues.

Sounds like your LBS are using too many spacers or haven't actually tried it but assume that, since they introduced a new spindle, it must be required. But the new spindle was introduced to cut on the number of parts (same spindle is now used for SRM spiders so they don't have to make two different length) and it's supposedly a little lighter and stiffer.

I will be installing the SpideRing on my SL arms, keeping my old spindle with the non-drive side lip, just haven't taken the time to do the switch yet... I'll report back when I do.


----------



## nathanbal

Thanks guys. I stumbled on another post that suggested using the normal BB30 bearing shield on the non drive side to give some extra room on the drive side. Have asked the LBS to give that a go. Will report back.


----------



## Dan Gerous

As far as I know, the bearing sheilds themselves are the same on the old Hollowgrams and the SISL2 but the mounting setup is different. If you use the old 104mm spindle, you have to follow the instruction for the old BB (flat outside, 2mm thick bearing sheilds both sides, no spacers non-drive side, wave washer and thin preload shims as needed drive side), not the new 109mm BB instructions (with sheild, spacers and preload adjustment non-drive side and a sheild + 2.5mm spacer drive side).


----------



## trauma-md

I have swapped the spidering for regular rings on mine and I actually had to bring the FD limits inward when going from spidering to the SRM with regular rings. I don't think clearance will be a problem from that standpoint. A normal 104 BB should work fine with normal clearance


----------



## shoemakerpom2010

metoou2 said:


> The best part about all these 'feelings' floating around is the member above got the HYPE backwards.
> 
> Cannondale claims that the new design 2013 forged Si is the stiffest Hollowgram ever made.
> He had the 2013 forged Si on his bike, pulled it off and installed the 2013 SiSl 2. And then proclaimed that the SiSl 2's are stiffer.
> 
> I can attest to the stiffness of the new 3d si as I installed them yesterday due to an original si warranty replacement. They are so stiff in fact that I feel that maybe my original (first 104mm spindle cannondale made) is not stiff enough to compliment the cranks. I am now thinking of getting a 109mm spindle in hopes that its made stronger and does not resonate road vibration as much.


----------



## Dan Gerous

Just an update. I switched my old compact 5-bolt spider with MK-V rings to a compact SpideRing. Crankset is a Hollowgram SL, regular 104mm spindle, BB30 frame.

Well, everything worked as expected, I used the wave washer and one thin washer, just as I did with the old spider. Only differences is that the SpideRing itself is not as thick as the old spider around the center, the old one was pretty much flush with the lockring when tightened but the SpideRing has approximatively 1mm of additional clearance there, might help with some frames, it didn't matter on mine.

Also, as trauma-md pointed out, the chainline of the SpideRing is bigger than the old spider so the front derailleur has to be adjusted a bit. Since the chainline would be even bigger with the new 109mm spindle, my guess is that it was designed to have the same or almost the same chainline as the latest SRAM Red crankset so a Red Yaw derailleur will be easy to install and setup (when I installed mine with the old spider, the chainline was so much narrower that the aligning lines on the derailleur could not be used, had to point the derailleur with the cage's tail out a bit compared to the lines).

I'm still waiting for a few things to finish my winter rebuild so I haven't tried it yet. I don't have a balance so I didn't weigh it either, it felt a bit lighter by hand, not that much but a bit.

As for stiffness claims and theories, and to respond to shoemakerpom2010, normally more stiffness shouldn't cut resonation and vibration, just the opposite, it should amplify it. I'm guessing you're talking about road vibration that is felt a bit more through the crankset? Flexier parts absorb vibration and resonance but I have a hard time believing there is such a huge difference in stiffness between SL and SISL2 and Forged SI that you could actually feel more vibration through there... The difference in stiffness of the spindles is negligable and if the new 109mm is indeed stiffer, it should offer less vibration damping... But I have never heard of people compling about too much stiffness in the cranks and BB area...

Personally, I think the stiffness gain that's most important is not the spindle and arms, pretty much any Hollowgram incarnation is among the upper levels of stiffness on the market. I can produce some good power but I doubt the difference in stiffness in those will make a difference in efficiency and that I could feel a difference. The SpideRing's added stiffness is, I think, where noticable performance can be gained, not so for power transfer but more in it's lateral stiffness. Shifting under power was where the old spider and the thin MK-V rings weren't that impressive (wasn't bad but wasn't the best, that's where Shimano Dura-Ace had the upper hand). The way the SpideRing is shaped (the 10 arms provide more support points but each are thicker and structuraly better shaped than the old spider, it's flimsy mounting tabs and chainrings that are just flat plates) and without bolts, shifting 'should' be improved... The shifting ramps look more evolved too. I guess I'll only know what is true or not once I go out on the road. Can't wait, getting fed up of winter now...


----------



## Dan Gerous

Carmen563 said:


> Can someone explain the line on the arm in picture 3?


Can't see your pictures... but I'm guessing you're refering to the bond. Each arm is made of two halves that interlock together and that are bonded. That allows them to machine the inside of the arms with more precision to make it that light and that stiff. Here is what the arms look like during the process, before they're bonded and anodized (I think those are Hollowgram SL but the SISL2 use the same technique, they just changed the machining to make them a little lighter and a tad stiffer).

View attachment 275816
View attachment 275817


----------



## gunder

Some good info in this thread. Question, I have some FSA Gossamer Pro (compact - 110BCD) cranks that came on my SuperSix. Does FSA make chainrings that are 11 speed compatible? Would I be better off upgrading to a hollowgram setup?


----------



## zamboni

gunder said:


> Some good info in this thread. Question, I have some FSA Gossamer Pro (compact - 110BCD) cranks that came on my SuperSix. Does FSA make chainrings that are 11 speed compatible? Would I be better off upgrading to a hollowgram setup?


FSA made the chainrings compatible with Campy11 but not so sure about Shimano.


----------



## duffin

Are these crank arm bolts for SI compatible to new SiSL2 crank arms?
Hollowgram SI Crank Bolts Green Anodized Cannondale New | eBay


----------



## shoemakerpom2010

Yes they are but these have got to be the lightest crank arm bolts on the planet. 

Cannondale Hollowgram SISL2 Crankbolt Kit Black KP251 Blk | eBay


----------



## Asmilo

Anyone had any luck with the new spidering and campy 11 speed? I was planning on using a full record group with sisl2 and a kmc x11sl chain. Hopefully this should work well! Any feedback would be awesome!


----------



## hypercycler

Yes I'm running the new spidering with Campy SR 11 speed. Don't use the KMC X11SL chain, use the original Record 11 sp chain instead. I was having front shifting issue with the X11SL that the chain would get caught in the FD cage during small to big ring shift, my LBS called up campy and they said it's better to use all Campy parts for the drivetrain (or it would void the warranty too). They were saying the outer plate of the KMC is too sharp or something.

Funny I didn't have any problem with the old MKV rings with the X11SL though.


----------



## Asmilo

Thanks for the feedback hypercycler. How do you find the performance now with the record chain? Funny that it worked fine with the mkv when the new spidering is meant to be for 11 speeds!


----------



## hypercycler

The front shifting now is very smooth with the record chain. Noticeably faster shifting action and no chain drop. The Spidering is definitely stiffer then the MK V rings. No deflection vs. there were some on the MK V rings. Haven't really put both on a scale but I think the weights are pretty close.


----------



## CotterMajor

hypercycler said:


> The front shifting now is very smooth with the record chain. Noticeably faster shifting action and no chain drop. The Spidering is definitely stiffer then the MK V rings. No deflection vs. there were some on the MK V rings. Haven't really put both on a scale but I think the weights are pretty close.




So i've been comparing the sisl cranks to the new sisl2 cranksets and the Q factor is the same between the cranks even thought the spindle is longer because the non-drive crank arm has a 10mm offset instead of a 15mm offset. So on the sisl cranks both arms are offset 15mm and on the sisl2 arms the non-drive is offset 10mm and the drive-side is still offset 15mm. The new synapse frames have a wider BB shell and only the new spindles will work on the new frames (BB30A). If you pair the older (sisl) arms with the new spindle you Q-factor will increase by 5mm on the non drive side if your use the included spacers...


----------



## wrshultz

Heard any plans for a mid-compact 52/36 Spidering for the SISL2?


----------



## CotterMajor

No, but with 11-28 cassettes is there a need for one? Especially with 11 speed, 11-28/11 cog cassetttes offers a great range without any huge jumps between gears. Also as far as i can tell the spiderring is made of the same lightweight aluminum the sisl chainrings were made of which wore out rather quickly. I'd go with some cheaper more durable rings... Also the spiderrings are 11 speed compatible.


----------



## Diopena1

I will concur with Trauma on this one, I just got SISL2's installed on my 11' SS6 himod, first impressions:
1) if using the proper spacers, you don't need to worry about there being any play at the spindle (thank you Trauma for enlightening me on this)
2) My LBS, and Trauma both coincided that you can run a regular 104mm spindle, without ill effect. I chose to keep the 109mm with spacers, just because I plan on possibly running 11 spd Sram later on, and from what I was told at my LBS, the chainline is almost perfect.
3) New SISL2 cranks with MKV chainring spider, upgraded from Sram Red compact to standard. Even with FSA rings the shifting was dialed in just right.... can't wait til I pop some Praxis rings on there 

My suggestion to the group or whoever does this swap/upgrade, use the best chain you can. I changed from a PG1070 Sram Chain to the PG190R- Huge difference, quiet as the wind.... Now, I'm off, gotta ride for a bit while the sun is still out! LOL



trauma-md said:


> I have swapped the spidering for regular rings on mine and I actually had to bring the FD limits inward when going from spidering to the SRM with regular rings. I don't think clearance will be a problem from that standpoint. A normal 104 BB should work fine with normal clearance


----------



## Zampano

Do the spiderings come in 10 *and* 11 speed versions? Looking at the nib on ebay they make no mention of ring compatibility.


----------



## Dan Gerous

Zampano said:


> Do the spiderings come in 10 *and* 11 speed versions? Looking at the nib on ebay they make no mention of ring compatibility.


They're compatible with both 10 and 11 speed groups: Shimano, SRAM, Campy.


----------



## Zampano

Thanks!


----------



## veloci1

I wish they would offer a 52/36. I asked about this and the Cannondale rep said that if there was demand for the 52/36, they would have done it already.

i told him to ask Cannondale's marketing Intelligence dept to do a little more research. even campy and Shimano have gotten on the 52/36 bandwagon.

We will see.


----------



## red elvis

veloci1 said:


> I wish they would offer a 52/36. I asked about this and the Cannondale rep said that if there was demand for the 52/36, they would have done it already.
> 
> i told him to ask Cannondale's marketing Intelligence dept to do a little more research. even campy and Shimano have gotten on the 52/36 bandwagon.
> 
> We will see.


how big is the difference between a 53/39t and 52/36t?


----------



## veloci1

Biggest difference is the 36 ring. I can really feel it when climbing. The
52 , not really a difference.


----------



## red elvis

I had a hard time climbing with a standard crank so I switched to compact. But now my average speed has decreased and this is why I am thinking about buying a 52/36t chainrings.


----------



## macca33

red elvis said:


> I had a hard time climbing with a standard crank so I switched to compact. But now my average speed has decreased and this is why I am thinking about buying a 52/36t chainrings.



What groupset are you running - a cassette change is a heck of a lot cheaper - and easier to perform.

cheers


----------



## red elvis

macca33 said:


> What groupset are you running - a cassette change is a heck of a lot cheaper - and easier to perform.
> 
> cheers


I have a sram red groupset with a 11-26t cassette.


----------



## Yamabushi

red elvis said:


> But now my average speed has decreased and this is why I am thinking about buying a 52/36t chainrings.


So you are saying when you are using the 50x11 you are running out of gear? That's too easy for you?


----------



## red elvis

I didn't say easy but I have to pedal harder just to have the same average speed I had when riding with a standard crankset.


----------



## Yamabushi

red elvis said:


> I didn't say easy but I have to pedal harder just to have the same average speed I had when riding with a standard crankset.


That doesn't make sense? Are you saying you need a stiffer (more difficult) gear than 50x11?


----------



## Dan Gerous

red elvis said:


> I didn't say easy but I have to pedal harder just to have the same average speed I had when riding with a standard crankset.


You don't need to pedal harder, you need to pedal faster!


----------



## red elvis

Dan Gerous said:


> You don't need to pedal harder, you need to pedal faster!


that's what I meant..pedal faster


----------



## 55x11

for many situations riders may want to prefer to have 53x11 or 52x11 instead of 50x11.
With 50x11 one spins out (say 110rpm) at 39mph. 
Sprinting with tailwind or slight downhill, or chasing on downhills (on many even modest and short 8% hills it's easy to get up to 40-45mph), you may want to have that 52 or 53 tooth chainring. 

Having said that, I think most people are over geared and could benefit from the 34 on the compact (vs. 39 small ring on standard) a lot more and more often than from 53 vs. 50 on the big ring.

52/36 is a nice range and I am surprised we don't see more manufacturers produce these cranks.

A cassette change is not going to help (unless you want to go back to 53/39 and then expand the cassette to 11-28), but I also disagree slightly that the cassette swap is much cheaper - a lot of times you can find rings and spider for under $100 on ebay, and if you use the same spider (110 BCD?) you can find rings even cheaper - about the same price as cassette which will probably be $50 or so.

I am debating similar issues myself - I run standard 53/39 with 11-28 cassette and debating whether for steep hills I would rather go with 50/36 compact (I have it on other bikes) - I already have rings just need to find 110mm BCD spider - OR - go with 11-32 cassette and WiFli mid-cage derailleur - OR - perhaps eventually both (?) - the last one is overkill but why not have the option.


----------



## rijn

I just order a Hollowgram Si (2014+ version). Does it use the same spindle as the SISL2 and will it work with an Enduro XD-15 PF30 BB? Angular contact and not the Radial version of the BB.

It seems like the bulk of the weight savings between the SISL2 and current Si comes from the one piece chain ring.


----------



## WheresWaldo

rijn said:


> I just order a Hollowgram Si (2014+ version). Does it use the same spindle as the SISL2 and will it work with an Enduro XD-15 PF30 BB? Angular contact and not the Radial version of the BB.
> 
> It seems like the bulk of the weight savings between the SISL2 and current Si comes from the one piece chain ring.


Yes and yes. 

Some of the savings are also in the crank arms themselves. It is lighter overall, but personally I could never justify the cost difference, since weight was the only advantage.


----------



## rijn

Thanks for the quick response.

According to this Cannonade its stiffer.

Cannondale Road SiSL2 and Si Cranksets – Cannondale Bicycles Customer Support


----------



## veloci1

I suppose cannondale changed its tune.
I was reviewing the specs for the caad12 and it states that they come with a 52/36 spidering. Hope they make available to the market soon.


----------



## young

veloci1 said:


> I suppose cannondale changed its tune.
> I was reviewing the specs for the caad12 and it states that they come with a 52/36 spidering. Hope they make available to the market soon.




btw cdale will have 2 verison of spidering going forward. 8 spoke seen above and the lighter 10 spoke. kinda like si and sisl2. weight difference is about 30 grams.

should be in all 3 sizes.


----------



## vtsteevo

Anyone know the weight difference between SI with FSA rings vs SI with Spidering?



young said:


> btw cdale will have 2 verison of spidering going forward. 8 spoke seen above and the lighter 10 spoke. kinda like si and sisl2. weight difference is about 30 grams.
> 
> should be in all 3 sizes.


----------



## Zampano

I'm looking at a 2016 Cannonade Carbon 105 with SI cranks and FSA (5 bolt) rings.

http://www.cannondale.com/en/USA/Bi...parentid=b96c94d6-6537-46ec-8189-d0d717b8725a

Will a compact spidering fit the 2016 SI crankset? If yes, is this a simple bolt on replacement, with optimal chainline? Is there a specific spidering year I need to look for?


----------

