# Tyler Hamilton's book



## philoanna (Dec 2, 2007)

I've pre-ordered it, and the more that comes out about it makes it seem like it's going to be a good one. I've read David Millar's, Riis', Cav's, Fignon's, the 7-Eleven book, and Bobke's 2nd book. Tyler's sounds like it's going to be no-holds barred, unlike the others I've read. The past couples of decades have been a very interesting time to be a cycling fan. As much as I hope the sport is getting cleaner, it sure has made for some good reading.

Does anyone recommend any other good reads about cycling?


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## 32and3cross (Feb 28, 2005)

Im about half way through the book. It's detailed and no holds barred for sure. On the whole most of the information is out there over the past 12 years if you knew what to look for but Tyler adds personal details that tie it all together nicely. All in all it paints a pretty bleak picture but a truthful one. It conforms a lot of stuff I had heard about or guessed.


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## Fireform (Dec 15, 2005)

Slaying the Badger is a must read, IMO.


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## 32and3cross (Feb 28, 2005)

Fireform said:


> Slaying the Badger is a must read, IMO.


Agree Slaying the Badger is great.

I also recommend "Hearts of Lions"

"Racing through the dark" is ok.

The Price of Gold is pretty ok as well


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## JasonB176 (Aug 18, 2011)

32and3cross said:


> Im about half way through the book. It's detailed and no holds barred for sure. On the whole most of the information is out there over the past 12 years if you knew what to look for but Tyler adds personal details that tie it all together nicely. All in all it paints a pretty bleak picture but a truthful one. It conforms a lot of stuff I had heard about or guessed.


I'm eagerly awaiting it. How did you manage to get an advanced copy three weeks ahead of time?


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## 32and3cross (Feb 28, 2005)

JasonB176 said:


> I'm eagerly awaiting it. How did you manage to get an advanced copy three weeks ahead of time?


Someone in my family works in media and actually the release has been moved up to the 5th.


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## trailrunner68 (Apr 23, 2011)

32and3cross said:


> Someone in my family works in media and actually the release has been moved up to the 5th.


Sept. 5th is Pat McQuaid's birthday. The previous release date is Armstrong's birthday.

Funny stuff.


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## Tschai (Jun 19, 2003)

Just read Slaying the Badger and the 7-11 book over the last two weeks and am 1/2 through Fignon's book. All good, but I really lose interest when they go over the "I started cycling" stuff and the like. I just want to read the nasty bits about racing and the like. I suspect 1/2 of Tyler's book will cover his story prior to the Lance stuff and his dog, Tugboat, or whatever his name was. I'll have to slog through that.


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## 32and3cross (Feb 28, 2005)

Tschai said:


> Just read Slaying the Badger and the 7-11 book over the last two weeks and am 1/2 through Fignon's book. All good, but I really lose interest when they go over the "I started cycling" stuff and the like. I just want to read the nasty bits about racing and the like. I suspect 1/2 of Tyler's book will cover his story prior to the Lance stuff and his dog, Tugboat, or whatever his name was. I'll have to slog through that.


He spends very little time on back story - just enough let you know his background and how he started. He also spends very little time on racing stories the book is about taking drugs and pretty much that's all.


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## trailrunner68 (Apr 23, 2011)

32and3cross said:


> He spends very little time on back story - just enough let you know his background and how he started. He also spends very little time on racing stories the book is about taking drugs and pretty much that's all.


Awww, the good stuff. Sweet.


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## burgrat (Nov 18, 2005)

I cross-posted this:
Tyler Hamilton on Lance Armstrong: The Secret Is Out | Books | OutsideOnline.com


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## WAZCO (Sep 16, 2004)

Thanks for sharing! Just read some parts for the book at Cyclingnews , along w/ that and your's, I'm going to purchase the book when they release it. Thanks again!


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## Handbrake (May 29, 2012)

Yeah this kind of thing is soooo important, because the mountains of evidence just aren't enough sate our taste for voyeurism. Racing isn't exciting enough of its own so we need to pay guys who concocted insane yarns to cover their doping to get us the real truth. 

Here is a good review!


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## jorgy (Oct 21, 2005)

Handbrake said:


> Here is a good review!


That is hilarious.


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## Fireform (Dec 15, 2005)

Stupid. Turning a blind eye to corruption doesn't solve anything.

Unless you just don't give a $hit about the sport.


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## aliensporebomb (Jul 2, 2002)

*Yeah*



burgrat said:


> I cross-posted this:
> Tyler Hamilton on Lance Armstrong: The Secret Is Out | Books | OutsideOnline.com


A fascinating and bittersweet read.


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## MaddSkillz (Mar 13, 2007)

trailrunner68 said:


> Sept. 5th is Pat McQuaid's birthday. The previous release date is Armstrong's birthday.
> 
> Funny stuff.



Oh dude, that's great! Hahaha


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## philoanna (Dec 2, 2007)

Then don't come into this forum to read this junk if your above it.


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## DIRT BOY (Aug 22, 2002)

Fireform said:


> Stupid. Turning a blind eye to corruption doesn't solve anything.
> 
> Unless you just don't give a $hit about the sport.


I agree. I would love to see the whole thing BLOWN UP and the truth about EVERYONE come out. Or just move on to the old ways and let everyone dope like every other sport. :mad2:


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## DIRT BOY (Aug 22, 2002)

I would NEVER buy this book and support a LIAR! If Hamilton wants to come clean, clean up the sports, etc, he should write this book without getting a CENT form the publisher, period!

Everyone wants to profit of someone else's mis fortune. I guess that society.


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## trailrunner68 (Apr 23, 2011)

DIRT BOY said:


> I would NEVER buy this book and support a LIAR! If Hamilton wants to come clean, clean up the sports, etc, he should write this book without getting a CENT form the publisher, period!
> 
> Everyone wants to profit of someone else's mis fortune. I guess that society.


Hamilton is profiting from his own misfortune.

We live in a capitalist country. You won't get very far by complaining about people making money. Somwebody has to turn a buck out of this. It might as well be those who tell the truth, even if it took them a while to do it.


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## BacDoc (Aug 1, 2011)

Handbrake said:


> Yeah this kind of thing is soooo important, because the mountains of evidence just aren't enough sate our taste for voyeurism. Racing isn't exciting enough of its own so we need to pay guys who concocted insane yarns to cover their doping to get us the real truth.
> 
> Here is a good review!


Excellent!

One of the best reviews as well as comments on the doping/cycling circus!


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## 32and3cross (Feb 28, 2005)

Handbrake said:


> Yeah this kind of thing is soooo important, because the mountains of evidence just aren't enough sate our taste for voyeurism. Racing isn't exciting enough of its own so we need to pay guys who concocted insane yarns to cover their doping to get us the real truth.
> 
> Here is a good review!



Reading that "review" I don't get the impression that person ever read the book.

And yes I do think its important because most people are not going to be interested in sifting to the mounds of evidence (most people just don't care that much) so a account that is easier digest has a purpose. Of course we can discuss back and forth who's account is right but the accounts distill the facts down into narrative that is more interesting to read.


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## Doctor Falsetti (Sep 24, 2010)

#1 Sports book on Amazon. 

http://www.amazon.com/Best-Sellers-Books-Sports-Outdoors/zgbs/books/26/ref=zg_bs_nav_b_1_b


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## ashpelham (Jan 19, 2006)

+++1 to trailrunner68. It's time for these idealistic types to get wake up and start trying to make some money themselves. As much as capitalism eats it's own children sometimes, it is the system that humans have come up with that spreads wealth the best. It's just not doing as good of a job as it once did. And as for making money off your own illegal actions, there certainly seems to be an imbalance there.


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## Henry Porter (Jul 25, 2006)

Doctor Falsetti said:


> #1 Sports book on Amazon.
> 
> http://www.amazon.com/Best-Sellers-Books-Sports-Outdoors/zgbs/books/26/ref=zg_bs_nav_b_1_b


I must admit I'm considering purchasing it.


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## Fireform (Dec 15, 2005)

I preordered it on my kindle.


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## gobes (Sep 12, 2006)

I wish the ebook were being released on the 5th too.


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## Fireform (Dec 15, 2005)

Mine was e delivered this morning.


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## Opus51569 (Jul 21, 2009)

Hamilton was on the Today show this morning, promoting it. Told Matt Lauer that he lied in the past, admitted to lying to Lauer's face in the past, but swears this book is the truth.


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## Zombie John (Jul 25, 2011)

Opus51569 said:


> Hamilton was on the Today show this morning, promoting it. Told Matt Lauer that he lied in the past, admitted to lying to Lauer's face in the past, but swears this book is the truth.


I understand where this argument comes from, but I don't think it holds much water once you think about it.

You have to take into context what was being lied about and when and why.

Think about it. If a father comes home to find the living room lamp was broken, he'd ask, "Who broke the lamp?" The son might say, "I don't know" at first but will eventually come around and say, "I did it." Does that mean the kid can never be trusted again? If not, then the question of "who broke the lamp" can never be answered -- which is silly.

Hamilton lied in the beginning to cover his ass. That is no longer needed, so why would he be lying now?

If he's just out for a cash grab, wouldn't it be easier to just tell the truth? I think we all already know doping was prevalent enough during the time. So it's pretty easy to believe he'd have enough ammunition already to write a book without much embellishing.

I hope everyone comes out with a book/testimony like this. I hope the whole house of cards comes down. That's the only way to rebuild the sport.


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## bnoojin (Mar 24, 2002)

*dog in a hat*

don't think it's been mentioned but I thought that was an interesting read.


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## Dwayne Barry (Feb 16, 2003)

Zombie John said:


> I understand where this argument comes from, but I don't think it holds much water once you think about it.


I'm not sure that's the point he was making but regardless, of course you're right about this. There are obviously situations where people lie to save their skin, which whether you agree with it or not is at least understandable.

That's different than lying simply to embellish a story or to completely make it up. Something tells me the truth here is interesting enough, I'd be surprised if he was simply making things up. Not to mention given everything else that's out there, it's basically believable, just like when he was denying the doping it was basically unbelievable if you take into account the bigger picture of what was going in cycling at the time.


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## mpre53 (Oct 25, 2011)

The best guarantee that Hamilton is now telling the truth is that he has already testified before a Federal grand jury. That means that the Feds can't ever prosecute him on the basis of what he said in there, with one major exception---they CAN prosecute him for perjury if he gave false testimony.


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## Doctor Falsetti (Sep 24, 2010)

http://velonews.competitor.com/2012/09/news/exclusive-qa-with-secret-race-authors_237632/5

Good interview


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## JasonB176 (Aug 18, 2011)

I have thoroughly enjoyed the book. I've been really impressed that it shows that the argument they all cheated so it didn't matter is not true. Lance had more money and influence so he got better drugs, the newest research and best doctors to dope him. That made a huge difference compared to the average doper.


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## pretender (Sep 18, 2007)

Loving the book. Fascinating stuff.


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## ronderman (May 17, 2010)

I am in the process right now and it is a must read for anyone who like the sport. No question.

I agree with the other poster who said it clearly shows factually that the whole "they were all doing it, so it was a level playing field" is completely and utterly stupid.

Hamilton and Coyle do a very good job taking you through the ages and it is clear this is NOT revenge on Armstrong.


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## lspangle (Aug 30, 2004)

I got the kindle version yesterday and couldn't put it down, just finished it. It was a really good read, and I came away wishing that everyone who doped would come forward and tell their stories and work to get the sport cleaned up. Especially Lance. Then he would be a hero in my book. Right now I feel totally taken in by Lance, there's just too much evidence piling up that all matches. 

Hope that Johan goes to arbitration and it all comes out to the public. 

And most of all, hope that up-and-coming cyclists don't have to make the choice to dope or not to dope just to keep up.


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## ronderman (May 17, 2010)

Just finished it - incredible read - I'm not sure what agenda anyone would have for not wanting to read this book (unless books aint your thang ; )


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## Tschai (Jun 19, 2003)

I just blew through the book over the last three days. It was a good read. Still, too many Tugboat and Tank references. In any case, what really stuck out for me was how much of an a-hole Lance is. My god. He may be the classic example of paranoid personality disorder.


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## velojon (Mar 8, 2006)

Just read it over the weekend and I admit I couldn't put it down. I thought it was good for a couple of reasons, and neither has to do with Lance specifically. First, to me, it's believable, it rings true. I don't think you can make some of this stuff up, not at that level of detail. It may not change anyone's mind on doping but I think confessions like this are slowly tipping the balance of public opinion, and it will help more athletes come forward with the truth. We need a more nuanced understanding of this issue and this era beyond "Dopers Suck". Second, it shines a harsh light on the complicity of the UCI and that needs a lot more scrutiny.


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## fontarin (Mar 28, 2009)

Very good read. It seemed to be the truth - maybe a few embellishments along the way, but overall, rings true.


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## Big-foot (Dec 14, 2002)

Tyler interview on Aussie TV: http://www.abc.net.au/news/2012-09-10/former-lance-armstrong-teammate-describes-doping/4253740


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## atpjunkie (Mar 23, 2002)

guy lied on his dogs grave
he is dead to me


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## cda 455 (Aug 9, 2010)

atpjunkie said:


> guy lied on his dogs grave
> _*he is dead to me*_



Who; TH or his dog  ?


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## atpjunkie (Mar 23, 2002)

*Tyler*



cda 455 said:


> Who; TH or his dog  ?


but that is funny
Tugboat is obviously dead

Lie all you want, don't do it on your mother or dog's honor


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## cda 455 (Aug 9, 2010)

atpjunkie said:


> Lie all you want, don't do it on your mother or dog's honor



Totally agree.


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## Fireform (Dec 15, 2005)

Good interview. He's getting more relaxed about telling his story.


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## CheapTrek (Dec 23, 2011)

atpjunkie said:


> guy lied on his dogs grave
> he is dead to me



It sure speaks to the man's character. 

I would not hesitate to borrow a copy of this book and read it but my stomach turns at the thought of even a single cent coming out of my pocket and going into TH's bank account.

I can't tolerate listening to him prattle on about how "it's a story that needed to be told" and how good it "feels to get it off his chest". Altruism my ass. This book is not about cleaning up the sport or righting wrongs. It's about money. The man is an opportunist who's conveniently decided to tell the "truth" when he had nothing to lose and it was financially expedient to do so. 

I lump this guy right in with all the other riders who didn't have the courage to do what was right when it really mattered but won't be denied their catharsis, conveniently timed with their fall to the brink of irrelevance.


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## trailrunner68 (Apr 23, 2011)

CheapTrek said:


> It sure speaks to the man's character.
> 
> I would not hesitate to borrow a copy of this book and read it but my stomach turns at the thought of even a single cent coming out of my pocket and going into TH's bank account.
> 
> ...


People doing things for money, you say? Oh, comrades, this is terrible. The exploitation of the proletariot must stop. To the barricades!


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## Fireform (Dec 15, 2005)

Let's see. Is it better if someone tells the truth, or no one?

Hmmm. So tough to decide.


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## Tschai (Jun 19, 2003)

CheapTrek said:


> It sure speaks to the man's character.
> 
> I would not hesitate to borrow a copy of this book and read it but my stomach turns at the thought of even a single cent coming out of my pocket and going into TH's bank account.
> 
> ...


Well, you need to read the book before you condemn Tyler or any other doper. It discusses in detail the doping culture of the entire profession and how bike racers end up doping. They can either dope and have a career or they can quit. Those are the only options. Unless you are part of culture like that, you really have no business opining (let alone judging) about having the courage to do the right thing.

It also discusses how he continued to lie, well after he was caught, and would have continued to do so were it not for the Grand Jury, which required him to tell the truth. He gave up a lot by telling the truth, including any hopes of a renewed career in cycling after his initial ban.


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## gebbyfish (Apr 26, 2002)

*Got my 16 and change and I'm glad of it!*



CheapTrek said:


> It sure speaks to the man's character.
> 
> I would not hesitate to borrow a copy of this book and read it but my stomach turns at the thought of even a single cent coming out of my pocket and going into TH's bank account.
> 
> ...


Bought the book on Tuesday and finished it on Saturday and happy to have given Tyler my money. After reading how Lance Armstrong basically ratted him out to the UCI and got him put under the spotlight, it's amazing he didn't write the book sooner! I'm amazed that he doesn't outright come out and say he hates Armstrong after what happened. It was a great read and as has been said in this thread already, clearly shows how, if you wanted to compete, you needed to cheat(dope). You could not get to that next level without the EPO, blood bags, testosterone, etc., during the time he competed. It is unrealistic to think that anyone in the top of the sport wasn't doing this, including Lance. It feels like the floodgates are going to open with more and more as time goes on. I would recommend anyone who hasn't already read it, to read the JV editorial in the Times from the past week or so. Amazing what's happening right now. I would like to see them all compete on the same playing field, no drugs, no blood bags, one violation and you're done for life. I won't hold my breath.


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## Fireform (Dec 15, 2005)

Lifetime ban for first offense. Substantial fines for each team member of a banned rider who did not contribute to outing them. Contract protection and no fines for riders providing verifiable evidence of doping. 

Turn the incentives upside down.


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## Solopc (Sep 9, 2008)

Fireform said:


> Lifetime ban for first offense. Substantial fines for each team member of a banned rider who did not contribute to outing them. Contract protection and no fines for riders providing verifiable evidence of doping.
> 
> Turn the incentives upside down.


My knee jerk reaction is to agree. But what happens if a rider falls out of favor, for whatever reason, and a handful of mates turn on him or her and out them as a doper when they are not?

Anyway, not an easy solution. I ordered the book late last week. Should be here soon I imagine. Can't wait to read it. Frankly, I don't see an upside to Hamilton making this stuff up. I'm thinking that most of what he is saying is true.


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## jorgy (Oct 21, 2005)

Fireform said:


> Lifetime ban for first offense. Substantial fines for each team member of a banned rider who did not contribute to outing them. Contract protection and no fines for riders providing verifiable evidence of doping.
> 
> Turn the incentives upside down.


Here's the problem.... You actually have to want to rid cycling of doping AND have the means to pay for rigid enforcement.

Yea, I think doping is a bummer. But it ain't exactly a tragedy if someone has to choose a career other than professional cyclist if they don't want to dope. Millions of people make compromises in their professional life, and no one has a pity party for them. Wah--my parents refused to pay for the private university I wanted to go to, but they said they'd pay for any in-state school.

Ask the folks imprisoned initially imprisoned in Gitmo and Abu Gharib how well placing a bounty on folks heads turned out. What we ended up with was people turning in political or tribal rivals or just naming names for the money.

Doping in professional sports isn't a tragedy warranting a full-on, $$$$ assault. It just ain't.


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## burgrat (Nov 18, 2005)

Tyler interview on Australian TV (ABC):
http://www.abc.net.au/news/2012-09-10/former-lance-armstrong-teammate-describes-doping/4253740


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## Fireform (Dec 15, 2005)

We already have riders who fall out of favor getting outed for doping. Nobody is going to get banned without evidence (no matter what Lance says). Change the incentives and you change the system.


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## Addict07 (Jun 23, 2011)

Fireform said:


> We already have riders who fall out of favor getting outed for doping. Nobody is going to get banned without evidence (no matter what Lance says). Change the incentives and you change the system.


And of course, clean house at UCI, starting with McQuaid. Would be interesting to know what it would take for that to happen. Also have been disappointed to see USAC standing there looking at their shoes while the LA/USADA thing played out.


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## Fireform (Dec 15, 2005)

No serious reform will happen without a big shakeup at UCI. If the revelations coming out now produce that kind of housecleaning there may be hope for a clean sport.


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## jorgy (Oct 21, 2005)

Fireform said:


> No serious reform will happen without a big shakeup at UCI. If the revelations coming out now produce that kind of housecleaning there may be hope for a clean sport.


Well that I definitely agree with.


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## CheapTrek (Dec 23, 2011)

gebbyfish said:


> Bought the book on Tuesday and finished it on Saturday and happy to have given Tyler my money. After reading how Lance Armstrong basically ratted him out to the UCI and got him put under the spotlight, it's amazing he didn't write the book sooner! I'm amazed that he doesn't outright come out and say he hates Armstrong after what happened. It was a great read and as has been said in this thread already, clearly shows how, if you wanted to compete, you needed to cheat(dope). You could not get to that next level without the EPO, blood bags, testosterone, etc., during the time he competed. It is unrealistic to think that anyone in the top of the sport wasn't doing this, including Lance. It feels like the floodgates are going to open with more and more as time goes on. I would recommend anyone who hasn't already read it, to read the JV editorial in the Times from the past week or so. Amazing what's happening right now. I would like to see them all compete on the same playing field, no drugs, no blood bags, one violation and you're done for life. I won't hold my breath.


Well I'm going to agree with you that to see them all compete clean would be wonderful. We could all stop arguing and try to answer some of life's more important questions like "Does Trek make good bikes".

I completely acknowledge that doping was (and probably still is) rampant in the sport. Most, if not all, of the grand tour winners for decades have most likely been doping. That is not my point of contention with TH though. 

Hamilton had a choice to make. I admit that if I were in his shoes, I would struggle with the decision. Being a solid rider or a great rider.... There is a hell of a difference. I don't blame him for the decision he made. It was a conscious, rational decision he made and I don't fault him for being weak and making the wrong one. 

I fault him for his decision to capitalize on it. "A story that needed to be told"? Right. Believe me. There was a rush to get this book out before USADA released more details because the term "Redundant" does not make for good reviews. The story would have been told with or without him.


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## CheapTrek (Dec 23, 2011)

trailrunner68 said:


> People doing things for money, you say? Oh, comrades, this is terrible. The exploitation of the proletariot must stop. To the barricades!


Are you kidding? I really hope so. 

There are proper and improper ways to make money and capitalism, in a proper system, rewards those willing to work hard for a better life or risk their own money for gain (and those who do should be allowed to fail if they make the wrong decisions).

How is Hamilton any better than a guy like Henry Hill? Break the law, roll over on other people who did the same things you were doing and then rush to make as much as you can off the whole affair. 

It's a b/s way of making money to begin with but to try and position yourself as a hero/martyr? Laughable.


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## CheapTrek (Dec 23, 2011)

Tschai said:


> Well, you need to read the book before you condemn Tyler or any other doper. It discusses in detail the doping culture of the entire profession and how bike racers end up doping. They can either dope and have a career or they can quit. Those are the only options. Unless you are part of culture like that, you really have no business opining (let alone judging) about having the courage to do the right thing.
> 
> It also discusses how he continued to lie, well after he was caught, and would have continued to do so were it not for the Grand Jury, which required him to tell the truth. He gave up a lot by telling the truth, including any hopes of a renewed career in cycling after his initial ban.


Well given the 8 year suspension for the last positive test, his career was pretty much over anyway so I think there was a lot more to gain than to lose. 

I already stated that I would read the book but I'll be damned if I actually pay him to read it. 

If Tyler is doing this because he feels true remorse for what he has done, why not dedicate the proceeds to keeping young riders from doping?


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## zero85ZEN (Oct 11, 2002)

CheapTrek said:


> ....It's a b/s way of making money to begin with but to try and position yourself as a hero/martyr? Laughable.


Wait a minute...WHO is positioning themselves as a hero/martyr?


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## CheapTrek (Dec 23, 2011)

zero85ZEN said:


> Wait a minute...WHO is positioning themselves as a hero/martyr?


Hamilton is trying to position himself as a good guy. Coming forward with a book just before USADA releases a slew of info that would have made the book a dressed up version of the facts. 

Just take the Velonews interview. What's your opinion on his comments about Ekimov and the gold medal? Does that sound like someone who truly regrets that he doped?


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## OldChipper (May 15, 2011)

Handbrake said:


> Yeah this kind of thing is soooo important, because the mountains of evidence just aren't enough sate our taste for voyeurism. Racing isn't exciting enough of its own so we need to pay guys who concocted insane yarns to cover their doping to get us the real truth.
> 
> Here is a good review!


^ This! Hilarious and right on point.


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## 32and3cross (Feb 28, 2005)

CheapTrek said:


> It's a b/s way of making money to begin with but to try and position yourself as a hero/martyr? Laughable.


Except no where in the book does he try and do that.


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## Tschai (Jun 19, 2003)

CheapTrek said:


> Are you kidding? I really hope so.
> 
> There are proper and improper ways to make money and capitalism, in a proper system, rewards those willing to work hard for a better life or risk their own money for gain (and those who do should be allowed to fail if they make the wrong decisions).
> 
> ...


The proper way to make money. Since when is writing a book improper? My god. Comparing what Henry Hill did to what Tyler Hamilton did truly exposes how watered down your arguments are. The two are worlds apart.

You seem to have way too much anger over a bike racer that wrote a book about doping. If you read the book, you will learn that Tyler is not trying to position himself as a hero or martyr. But no, you still criticize him without having read it.


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## CheapTrek (Dec 23, 2011)

32and3cross said:


> Except no where in the book does he try and do that.


So he's coming out with this story now why? For the good of pro cycling?

I will not buy the book but I have seen and read the interviews and he is positioning himself as a repentant doper who has had an epiphany and has to come clean. Can't live with it any more. Whatever. 

No one made him dope. He could have walked away at any time but elected to choose money and prestige over what was right. It was up to him and he took the low road. I have a hard time reconciling that with any notion of integrity, especially so as he is now doing it again. 

Is there anyone here who would not have thought well of the man if he had earmarked all of his proceeds from this book to helping prevent doping?


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## CheapTrek (Dec 23, 2011)

Tschai said:


> The proper way to make money. Since when is writing a book improper? My god. Comparing what Henry Hill did to what Tyler Hamilton did truly exposes how watered down your arguments are. The two are worlds apart.
> 
> You seem to have way too much anger over a bike racer that wrote a book about doping. If you read the book, you will learn that Tyler is not trying to position himself as a hero or martyr. But no, you still criticize him without having read it.


I would not hesitate to read it but based on the interviews I've seen (Lauer) and read (Velonews), I cannot buy it. 

And I'm not comparing what Hill and Hamilton did on a legal or moral level. I was referring to the fact that there is little ethical difference in the way either of them set about trying to profit from a culture they ELECTED to involve themselves in. 

Do you disagree with that?


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## gebbyfish (Apr 26, 2002)

CheapTrek said:


> Well I'm going to agree with you that to see them all compete clean would be wonderful. We could all stop arguing and try to answer some of life's more important questions like "Does Trek make good bikes".
> 
> I completely acknowledge that doping was (and probably still is) rampant in the sport. Most, if not all, of the grand tour winners for decades have most likely been doping. That is not my point of contention with TH though.
> 
> ...


I'll differ with you on the last point. If I was him, and I knew the guy who helped tip the iceberg, turned the weak UCI radar towards me(Lance-read the book), I would be looking to get some payback and some pay, since my livelihood was stolen. 

I do recommend you read the book, as it gives an insider's look into how a person will come to the decision to dope.


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## pretender (Sep 18, 2007)

If you had some suspicion that the money were going to puppy killing, or weapons trafficking, or child prostitution, there might be a point.

The overall good in exposing the story far outweighs the bad in (horrors!) sending a little money Hamilton's way. If Armstrong ever comes out with his tell-all, hell yes I'm buying it.


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## Fireform (Dec 15, 2005)

CheapTrek said:


> I would not hesitate to read it but based on the interviews I've seen (Lauer) and read (Velonews), I cannot buy it.
> 
> And I'm not comparing what Hill and Hamilton did on a legal or moral level. I was referring to the fact that there is little ethical difference in the way either of them set about trying to profit from a culture they ELECTED to involve themselves in.
> 
> Do you disagree with that?


You should stop making these judgmental pronouncements about TH when you haven't read the book. He didn't rush to publish a book to capitalize on events--he had no intention of telling his story to anyone after he retired, and thought he was finally done with the whole thing, until Novitzky and the USADA came after him and he found himself in front of a grand jury. Under that compulsion he spilled his guts, and discovered that that felt good. When the coauthor of the book looked him up, he decided to cooperate and was interviewed something like 60 times over the span of two years. The coauthor made numerous trips to Europe to fact check and talk to other people involved, several of whom are quoted in the book. It's not some slapped-together cash-in job written over the last few months to make a buck, which is what you're implying.

Hamilton never claims his story is unique or that he's in any way admirable or heroic. He expresses admiration and even envy for people like Hampsten who retired rather than dope, or who decided not to be pros because of the dope, and even people like Iban Mayo who, when he tested positive, simply retired and became a truck driver. He shows how he got into the pro peloton and what he and everyone else had to do to stay there at that time. He was inside the doping system at Postal, and later the system that was exposed in the Porto scandal, so he knows a lot of names and has a lot to say. Who is doing more good for the sport, Mayo who didn't say a word and disappeared into obscurity (who by your standards did the honorable thing by not "cashing in"), or Tyler Hamilton? I think the answer to that is pretty clear.


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## Mulowe (Jul 17, 2003)

Why is it so many people absolutely hate Hamilton ?
Read the book. I'd say it's very clear that LA is a liar and a cheat of epic proportion. 
The hate the messenger crowd is out of of touch.


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## Doctor Falsetti (Sep 24, 2010)

It is funny to see that some people have a huge problem with somebody making a little money by telling the truth.......but no problem with somebody making a huge amount of money by telling a lie:thumbsup:


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## JasonB176 (Aug 18, 2011)

Doctor Falsetti said:


> It is funny to see that some people have a huge problem with somebody making a little money by telling the truth.......but no problem with somebody making a huge amount of money by telling a lie:thumbsup:


My thoughts exactly. He took two years out of life to write this book. Clearly a lot of effort went into it and I see nothing wrong with him being recompensed to a reasonable degree. It will be a pittance to the money Lance has received from sponsors for his questionable product.


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## jlandry (Jan 12, 2007)

You ba$tards. Temptation led me to ordering this book today. : )


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## 32and3cross (Feb 28, 2005)

CheapTrek said:


> So he's coming out with this story now why? For the good of pro cycling?
> 
> I will not buy the book but I have seen and read the interviews and he is positioning himself as a repentant doper who has had an epiphany and has to come clean. Can't live with it any more. Whatever.



He's coming out withe the story because he was finally pushed into telling the truth in front a grand jury after that I'm guessing he figured why not tell the whole thing publicly. Was part of that about writing a book for money, sure.

So don't buy the book, but your wrong about the epiphany the maryterdom stance dispite the many times you keep repeating it.


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## JasonB176 (Aug 18, 2011)

jlandry said:


> You ba$tards. Temptation led me to ordering this book today. : )


Haha, I told my wife the book was like crack. You just had to go back for more and more but now it's over and I'm jonesing! I will probably reread it in a couple months.


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## gebbyfish (Apr 26, 2002)

JasonB176 said:


> Haha, I told my wife the book was like crack. You just had to go back for more and more but now it's over and I'm jonesing! I will probably reread it in a couple months.


Me too! Reading a book where someone is tortured and baring their soul is engrossing! 

As someone mentioned it earlier, ordered "Dog in a Hat", a book in a similar, but not as famous, vein.


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## SicBith (Jan 21, 2008)

I would hope that TH's book breaks the dam and other riders in Hamilton's position come out with books on their opinion of peloton life. It would be nice to have others back up what TH has said.
The most shocking thing for me in the book was the loyalty of LA's teammates to him even after they knew LA had done the unthinkable (in the peloton) and told the UCI on TH. For me, that would have sealed it when I was caught. LA would have been under the bus fast. To USADA, WADA, and the UCI. (in that order). 
It also shows how stupid you need to be to work with a doping doc without some protection in your agreement for mishandled drugs or blood. It sounds like Fuentes was as much of a tool as LA. 
It also seems to support the theory of most of the GT podium is still doping at some level. The gains are not the same as in 2004/2005, all they need is 1 or 2% over their competitors as it doesn't matter if you win by 10 sec or by 7 minutes a win is a win. Micro dosing transfusions. what's next.


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## rydbyk (Feb 17, 2010)

*This bothers me most...*

So, apparently:
1. Lance and Tyler were partners in crime on US Postal

2. Lance made sure Tyler had less access/use of EPO as a teammate so he could maintain that edge needed to be the "best".

3. 2001 = Tyler's hematocrit levels increased a ton (49.7)

4. Lance now viewed Tyler as a threat = end of "friendship"

5. 2004 = Tyler on Phonak and "does very well on practice climb up Mt. Ventoux...a climb that included Lance".

6. UCI calls Tyler in and says you "You are being put on close watch..."

7. Tyler soon finds out that Lance contacted UCI and essentially told on Tyler for "doping"
and suggested they threaten him sorta thing.. This was after Lance got his butt kicked by Tyler up Mt. Ventoux during a practice ride.

8. The UCI turns a blind eye with regards to Lance doping, but will take demands from Lance when Lance is threatened by opposing riders.

If this is accurate, THEN it was clearly not a level playing field by any means...


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## Fireform (Dec 15, 2005)

rydbyk said:


> So, apparently:
> 1. Lance and Tyler were partners in crime on US Postal
> 
> 2. Lance made sure Tyler had less access/use of EPO as a teammate so he could maintain that edge needed to be the "best".
> ...



Pretty close. The training ride was a benchmark climb that Tyler did with his coach there for timing. Lance did not take it well when he learned that Tyler had eclipsed his record on that climb, and it was the beginning of the end. Lance saw to it that Tyler's pharmaceutical support was cut off, and when his performance suffered he was off the team.

The Mont Ventoux episode came later, in an uphill time trial stage of a race, when Tyler was on a different team. Tyler crushed Lance in that stage, and his team crushed Postal also. Lance responded by immediately siccing UCI on Tyler.


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## rydbyk (Feb 17, 2010)

Fireform said:


> Pretty close. The training ride was a benchmark climb that Tyler did with his coach there for timing. Lance did not take it well when he learned that Tyler had eclipsed his record on that climb, and it was the beginning of the end. Lance saw to it that Tyler's pharmaceutical support was cut off, and when his performance suffered he was off the team.
> 
> The Mont Ventoux episode came later, in an uphill time trial stage of a race, when Tyler was on a different team. Tyler crushed Lance in that stage, and his team crushed Postal also. Lance responded by immediately siccing UCI on Tyler.


Argh...this is terrible. I have "known" that Lance has been a doper for years, but now I am understanding why so many hate Lance's character.

I know LA is not ALL bad, but wow...this sorta thing is no bueno!

It seems Lance WAS doing more evil things than just "doping like the rest of them..."


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## antihero77 (Jul 26, 2011)

I just finished reading this book and could not put it down.
There are a few parts that really disturb me being a blood doctor.
How the hell these people are actully alive. Using that much epo you should be dead. Playing with transfusions the way they did again should be dead. These riders are retarded and the doctors that gave them the drugs and blood products.
And the worst part is great lance is stripped of his tiltles but look who now gets them convicted dopers.
What a messed up sport cycling is.


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## gebbyfish (Apr 26, 2002)

*Transfusion reaction?*



antihero77 said:


> I just finished reading this book and could not put it down.
> There are a few parts that really disturb me being a blood doctor.
> How the hell these people are actully alive. Using that much epo you should be dead. Playing with transfusions the way they did again should be dead. These riders are retarded and the doctors that gave them the drugs and blood products.
> And the worst part is great lance is stripped of his tiltles but look who now gets them convicted dopers.
> What a messed up sport cycling is.


Hey AH77 what did you think he was suffering from when he described how ill he was after that transfusion at the Vuelta? I was pretty certain he was having a transfusion reaction from getting someone else's blood(? Ulrich's?) since Ulrich apparently came up positive for someone else's blood at that Vuelta as well according to the book.

He didn't really address it in the book, how he got someone else's blood or whose blood it might have been, but that was my theory. 

I even wondered, could Lance have gotten to Ufe and paid him off to make such a mistake. 

Never heard that in the book, but considering all the other nasty things you learn in the book, wouldn't have put it past him!


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## Tschai (Jun 19, 2003)

CheapTrek said:


> I would not hesitate to read it but based on the interviews I've seen (Lauer) and read (Velonews), I cannot buy it.
> 
> And I'm not comparing what Hill and Hamilton did on a legal or moral level. I was referring to the fact that there is little ethical difference in the way either of them set about trying to profit from a culture they ELECTED to involve themselves in.
> 
> Do you disagree with that?


Stating you are not comparing the two and then following that up with comparing the two is ridiculous. So yes, I disagree. The two cannot be compared, no matter how you couch it and that is what you are doing.

Your posts are like someone criticizing a movie without having seen it.


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## trailrunner68 (Apr 23, 2011)

Fireform said:


> Pretty close. The training ride was a benchmark climb that Tyler did with his coach there for timing. Lance did not take it well when he learned that Tyler had eclipsed his record on that climb, and it was the beginning of the end. Lance saw to it that Tyler's pharmaceutical support was cut off, and when his performance suffered he was off the team.
> 
> The Mont Ventoux episode came later, in an uphill time trial stage of a race, when Tyler was on a different team. Tyler crushed Lance in that stage, and his team crushed Postal also. Lance responded by immediately siccing UCI on Tyler.


From henceforth, he should be known as Lance "The Rat" Armstrong.

I find it funny that some people badmouth Hamilton and Landis for "ratting" on Armstrong, but what they did is nothing compared to Armstrong tattling on his fellow riders to prevent them from beating him. The two have good reason for speaking against a system that betrayed them.

The surprising thing here is that Hamilton seems to be pretty forgiving about everything. I want another book by Landis. I don't think Floyd would have a problem saying what he thinks in blunt terms.


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## ronderman (May 17, 2010)

trailrunner68 said:


> I want another book by Landis. I don't think Floyd would have a problem saying what he thinks in blunt terms.


Hell hath no fury like a mennonite, turned red neck, turned euro, turned red neck, divorced, title taking away and broke!!!:9:


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## Fireform (Dec 15, 2005)

trailrunner68 said:


> I want another book by Landis. I don't think Floyd would have a problem saying what he thinks in blunt terms.


You should check this out:

Paul Kimmage interviews Floyd Landis

It completely changed my perception of Landis.


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## trailrunner68 (Apr 23, 2011)

Fireform said:


> You should check this out:
> 
> Paul Kimmage interviews Floyd Landis
> 
> It completely changed my perception of Landis.


I have read that. There is a series of video interviews, hosted I think on Yahoo, that cover much of the same ground.

Kimmage and Landis need to get together and put it in narrative form with a ton of details.


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## Fireform (Dec 15, 2005)

trailrunner68 said:


> I have read that. There is a series of video interviews, hosted I think on Yahoo, that cover much of the same ground.
> 
> Kimmage and Landis need to get together and put it in narrative form with a ton of details.


I agree.


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## Big-foot (Dec 14, 2002)

Nuther interview: BBC iPlayer - Hardtalk: Tyler Hamilton - Former professional cyclist


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## cda 455 (Aug 9, 2010)

ronderman said:


> Hell hath no fury like a mennonite, turned red neck, turned euro, turned red neck, divorced, title taking away and broke!!!:9:



:lol: :lol:


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## jorgy (Oct 21, 2005)

I like the final paragraph in the NY Times review of the book.

In response to:

_“I think everybody who wants to judge dopers should think about it, just for a second,” he writes. “You spend your life working to get to the brink of success, and then you are given a choice: either join in or quit and go home. What would you do?”_

The review ends:

_*Many cyclists answered by choosing to quit. Others resigned themselves to riding on less prominent teams or in less glamorous roles. Suggesting he had no real option pollutes Mr. Hamilton’s bid to clear the air.*_

In other words, Hamilton's a wuss who is still denying culpability for his own doping.


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## Doctor Falsetti (Sep 24, 2010)

jorgy said:


> In other words, Hamilton's a wuss who is still denying culpability for his own doping.


In other words, you have not read the book:idea:


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## Dwayne Barry (Feb 16, 2003)

jorgy said:


> In other words, Hamilton's a wuss who is still denying culpability for his own doping.


So what's that make Armstrong given he hasn't even got to the point yet where he can admit he doped?


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## cda 455 (Aug 9, 2010)

Dwayne Barry said:


> So what's that make Armstrong given he hasn't even got to the point yet where he can admit he doped?


Sociopath, maybe?


Greg LeMond described LA best: "He has no conscience."


What's sad is that I think LA, _literally,_ has no conscience.


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## RagbraiNewB (May 21, 2008)

*Excellent book*

As a casual fan of the sport, I have had so many questions about doping. What the different kinds are, what advantage the rider gains and what the chances would be of competing honestly. 

This book clearly answers all of these questions in ways that should make everyone involved in the sport - pro riders, coaches, sponsors, media and fans - deeply ashamed at abetting the dishonesty and not finding somehow to run the sport in a way that did not incent the cheaters to get into a doping arms race with one another.


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## Addict07 (Jun 23, 2011)

cda 455 said:


> Sociopath, maybe?
> 
> 
> Greg LeMond described LA best: "He has no conscience."
> ...


His entire career is based on the lie that he was competing clean. Without doping, there is no 7 Tour victories, no $70 million or whatever he has earned, no status as a global sports icon/celebrity, no stature to create LAF & Livestrong, no banging Sheryl Crow or other high end blondes. 

In fact, had UCI followed the rules and sanctioned him for his early positives instead of covering them up, he could have easily ended up like Tyler or Floyd after theirs...disgraced, ignored by the sport, coming up with ridiculous explanations to get re-instated.

So no, he will not admit anything unless somehow there is a huge upside for himself. He gains absolutely nothing by admitting he doped.


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## cda 455 (Aug 9, 2010)

Addict07 said:


> His entire career is based on the lie that he was competing clean. Without doping, there is no 7 Tour victories, no $70 million or whatever he has earned, no status as a global sports icon/celebrity, no stature to create LAF & Livestrong, no banging Sheryl Crow or other high end blondes.
> 
> In fact, had UCI followed the rules and sanctioned him for his early positives instead of covering them up, he could have easily ended up like Tyler or Floyd after theirs...disgraced, ignored by the sport, coming up with ridiculous explanations to get re-instated.
> 
> So no, he will not admit anything unless somehow there is a huge upside for himself. He gains absolutely nothing by admitting he doped.


Good points, indeed.


The thing that blows me away is the fact he has lived the lie and has been on the world stage/TV/radio, etc and has told lies after lies after lies. I truly believe the riders that have come forward (That have lived the same lie) are baring and cleansing their souls because they couldn't take it any more after being under similar scrutiny as LA.


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## pretender (Sep 18, 2007)

In case you hadn't seen it:
http://www.theonion.com/articles/lance-armstrong-wants-to-tell-nation-something-but,17973/

And this:
http://www.theonion.com/articles/lance-armstrong-lets-down-single-person-who-still,29313/


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## rydbyk (Feb 17, 2010)

*At age 15*

Lance was "no holds barred". 

Here is a scene when Lance was only 15. He tells a legend in the sport, Pigg, to:

1. "Get out of the way!"
2. Then prompty tells Pigg to "F off" when Pigg reprimands Lance for BREAKING the rules.

Funny. Should have been a sign for us all...

Most of you have seen this already, but just in case: (FF to 3 minute mark)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HorLQHQ3pMc


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## oldgoat (Feb 7, 2005)

Doctor Falsetti said:


> It is funny to see that some people have a huge problem with somebody making a little money by telling the truth.......but no problem with somebody making a huge amount of money by telling a lie:thumbsup:



+1. Read the book see no reason why TH would lie at this point. Anyone that's followed the sport for year's surely had too see that drugs were used. 
So, some believe that a sport where 1 percent is the difference between winning and losing and Lance beat all the caught dopers that finished behind him. i read several times where EPO gives you 12-20 % increase in performance. So, Lance that was that good that he could overcome that !! And win 7 tours in a row ! Give me a break.


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## davidka (Dec 12, 2001)

oldgoat said:


> i read several times where EPO gives you 12-20 % increase in performance.


If this were true then the riders who weren't on it would've been dropped from the draft on the flat stages. They would not have been able to make the time cut by the 5th day. It's a big advantage, no doubt, but there's a lot of exaggerated conjecture out there too. 

Does anyone else find it ironic that Tyler's book's success has been because of Lance's USADA issue (timing, natl. spotlight)? I hope he thanked him in the epilogue.


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## pedalruns (Dec 18, 2002)

davidka said:


> If this were true then the riders who weren't on it would've been dropped from the draft on the flat stages. They would not have been able to make the time cut by the 5th day. It's a big advantage, no doubt, but there's a lot of exaggerated conjecture out there too.
> 
> Does anyone else find it ironic that Tyler's book's success has been because of Lance's USADA issue (timing, natl. spotlight)? I hope he thanked him in the epilogue.


Andy Hampsten quote from TH's book: "EPO changed everything. All of a sudden whole teams were ragingly fast; all of a sudden I was struggling to make the time limits. By 1994, it was ridiculous. I'd be on climbs, working as hard as I'd ever worked, producing exactly the same power, at the same weight and right alongside me would be these big-assed guys and they'd be chatting like we were on the flats! It was crazy."

A great book, finally the 'real' truth. And... there was NO level playing field... it was more of a drug arms race and win all all costs, bullying other teamates and former teamates and other riders.. what a horrible culture.. I wish other riders would come forward..


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