# entry levels road bike... on budget...



## lastingxcauses (Aug 4, 2011)

Hello i am new here and i have a few questions in mind. That said i want to apology ahead if this topic was bought up many times before or not, I tried to do some research around but didnt find much. Some back ground I am a farely small guy 5'11, 155lbs. knowing that i am looking for a new entry level road bike to get. I am planning to start this as a new hobby as well as a new way of transportation. I would like to know what bikes you may reccomend for $300 or less... I was looking at the Schwinn prelude, GMC delani, but i dont know if its a good way to go between those two or others that i may not know about, as I am not planning to get any other bike for a couple of years...  Please give me your inputs as well as opinions. Thanks


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## Taos Biker (May 27, 2008)

You can do way better by going on craigslist for your area and finding a used bike. Have a shop look at it to make sure that it is sound. I ride a 60's era Bianchi that I love. It was a top of the line racing bike in 1969 and it rocks. I think I spent $200.


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## PJ352 (Dec 5, 2007)

In your price range and given that this is your first road bike, I think buying used (and local) is your best option. This allows you to check out bikes of interest and test ride them (for fit as well as function) - things you can't do when buying online. 

Some LBS's carry used bikes, and that would give you the added benefit of getting sizing/ fit assistance and (possibly) a 30 day warranty. If that's not an option, depending on your locale, CL may have some listings.


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## UtahBloke (Aug 3, 2011)

PJ352 said:


> In your price range and given that this is your first road bike, I think buying used (and local) is your best option. This allows you to check out bikes of interest and test ride them (for fit as well as function) - things you can't do when buying online.
> 
> Some LBS's carry used bikes, and that would give you the added benefit of getting sizing/ fit assistance and (possibly) a 30 day warranty. If that's not an option, depending on your locale, CL may have some listings.


I think I might go used as well, I have a budget of about 700.


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## PJ352 (Dec 5, 2007)

UtahBloke said:


> I think I might go used as well, I have a budget of about 700.


In that price range, you might want to consider a new LBS bike. You'll get sizing/ fitting assistance, a fully prepped bike and a warranty. With a new bike purchase, many LBS's also offer discounts on accessories and post purchase services like tune ups and tweaks to fit.

In the long run, it might prove cheaper than going used because of potential mechanical (as well as fit) issues. 

http://www.jamisbikes.com/usa/thebikes/road/ventura/11_venturasport.html

http://www.jamisbikes.com/usa/thebikes/road/satellite/11_satellitesport.html

http://www.bianchiusa.com/bikes/coast-to-coast/via-nirone-7/via-nirone-7-2300/
(discounted, will be close to your price range)

http://www.trekbikes.com/us/en/bikes/road/sport/2_and_1_series/1_1_h2_compact/#


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## lastingxcauses (Aug 4, 2011)

Great thanks for the replys! what should i look for in getting a used bike?


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## PJ352 (Dec 5, 2007)

lastingxcauses said:


> Great thanks for the replys! what should i look for in getting a used bike?


First and foremost, one that suites your intended purposes and fits well. Since you'll be commuting, you may also want to consider hybrids, because (generally speaking) they're cheaper and a little easier to fit, but the downside is they aren't well suited for longer rides, so some things to consider.

Since you'll be doing this on your own (versus getting LBS assistance), test rides will be important (for reasons mentioned in an earlier post). After you check out a few bikes, you'll get a sense for what geometry works well for you, so even if a bike doesn't meet some other criteria, if it fit well noting the geo would be helpful when checking out others.

Mechanically, you obviously want the bike to function well. All bearing assemblies (steering, crankset, hubs) should operate smoothly with no binding or play. Shifting should be reasonably quick, but if not, it doesn't necessarily mean you're looking at a sub standard bike. Brakes should operate fairly smoothly and (stating the obvious) stop the bike in fairly short order. Overall, check the drivetrain for signs of neglect (rusty/ dry chain, work cogs), and tires for wear/ cracking.

Lastly, if you're generally unfamiliar with bikes but find one that's of interest, ask the seller if you could bring it to a LBS to get checked over. It'll cost some, but in the long run might prevent you from making a costly mistake.


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## lastingxcauses (Aug 4, 2011)

PJ352 said:


> First and foremost, one that suites your intended purposes and fits well. Since you'll be commuting, you may also want to consider hybrids, because (generally speaking) they're cheaper and a little easier to fit, but the downside is they aren't well suited for longer rides, so some things to consider.
> 
> Since you'll be doing this on your own (versus getting LBS assistance), test rides will be important (for reasons mentioned in an earlier post). After you check out a few bikes, you'll get a sense for what geometry works well for you, so even if a bike doesn't meet some other criteria, if it fit well noting the geo would be helpful when checking out others.
> 
> ...


Wonderful thankyou for you assistance and others as well ! :thumbsup:


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## DrewQ1 (Aug 8, 2011)

Yeah its seems like for an entry level you can pay anywhere from 600-1k depending on brand from what I have been researching so far.


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## PWDonT (Aug 9, 2011)

New idiot here - so LBS means "Local bike shop"?


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## PJ352 (Dec 5, 2007)

PWDonT said:


> New idiot here - so LBS means "Local bike shop"?


Someone that's dropped ~75 lbs. is no idiot in my book (and kudo's to you for that accomplishment), but yes LBS = local bike shop.


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## flatsix911 (Jun 28, 2009)

Forget the used bike search ... you will disappointed with most of the junk.
Take a look on-line for a good value ... including free shipping and no tax :thumbsup:

*Good *
*MicroShift 24 Spd Road Bike 2011 Gravity Avenue $309*
Semi-Compact AL Frame, Aero Fork, Aluminum Rim Wheels
Save up to 60% off new Road Bikes - Gravity Avenue B | Save up to 60% off new road bikes









*Better
Shimano SORA/TIAGRA 27Spd Road Bike 2011 Gravity Liberty $499*
Semi-Compact AL Frame, Carbon Aero Fork, Aluminum Rim Wheels
Save up to 60% off new Road Bikes - Gravity Liberty 2 | Save up to 60% off new road bikes









*Best
SHIMANO 105, 30Spd Road Bike 2011 Gravity Comp30 $799*
Semi-Compact AL Frame, Carbon Aero Fork,Vuelta ZeroLite Wheels
Save up to 60% off new Road Bikes - Gravity Comp30 | Save up to 60% off new road bikes


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## lastingxcauses (Aug 4, 2011)

Oh wow thanks, those gravity would work for me, So I bumped up my budget to $600 I was very interested in the Fuji newest 3.0 any thoughts... also i found some used trek around that price too, but i kinda want to go new ^.^ who doesnt!


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## QED (Aug 11, 2011)

I recently bought a 2005 Fuji Newest for $300. New cabling and all tuned up, it is a great bike. I am a mtn biker and I didn't want to spend a bunch of money, I just wanted to try bike commuting for awhile. But I have to say, I am getting hooked. Having a good bike that fits well makes all the difference. You won't regret the Fuji.


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## lastingxcauses (Aug 4, 2011)

QED said:


> I recently bought a 2005 Fuji Newest for $300. New cabling and all tuned up, it is a great bike. I am a mtn biker and I didn't want to spend a bunch of money, I just wanted to try bike commuting for awhile. But I have to say, I am getting hooked. Having a good bike that fits well makes all the difference. You won't regret the Fuji.


Thanks for your input!! :thumbsup:


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## ohvrolla (Aug 2, 2009)

lastingxcauses said:


> Oh wow thanks, those gravity would work for me, So I bumped up my budget to $600 I was very interested in the Fuji newest 3.0 any thoughts... also i found some used trek around that price too, but i kinda want to go new ^.^ who doesnt!


Having knowledge about frame geometry, fit, and bike maintenance are paramount when purchasing a bikes direct bike. They can be a decent value, but if you rely on a LBS for the above mentioned factors then the LBS might be the better route for you.


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## PJ352 (Dec 5, 2007)

ohvrolla said:


> Having knowledge about frame geometry, fit, and bike maintenance are paramount when purchasing a bikes direct bike. They can be a decent value, but if you rely on a LBS for the above mentioned factors then the LBS might be the better route for you.


+1. Pretty much the same goes when buying used, but at least then you get the advantages of test riding and asking the seller if an LBS can check the bike out (mechanically) before commiting to the purchase. Some will offer fit advice as well. 

The bottom line remains the same; a reputable LBS is a valuable resource for someone not well acquainted with all the aspects of cycling, whether you buy from BD or used. If you go with an online purchase, just be sure to work with an LBS to pin down sizing requirements beforehand, then be prepared to pay them for assembly, tuning and fit assistance - all added costs of onlne purchases.


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## lastingxcauses (Aug 4, 2011)

Ah i didnt take those thought in consideration for buying online. I am planning to get the fuji at performance bikes since they are down the street from me. ^.^


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## PJ352 (Dec 5, 2007)

lastingxcauses said:


> Ah i didnt take those thought in consideration for buying online. I am planning to get the fuji at performance bikes since they are down the street from me. ^.^


I have no firsthand experience with Performance, but many members here seem to hold the opinion that they're hit or miss, possibly depending on who's managing a particular store or doing the fittings. You'll have the advantage of test riding the bike after the fitting and returning it if you're not satisfied. 

As long as they get sizing right, you can always go elsewhere for tweaks to fit.


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## bossride (Aug 13, 2011)

I, too, am looking for my first "real" bike to replace my $30 (when you bought $300 at Home Depot special) bike. Although I know the advantages of going through my LBS, I looked at a 2010 Performance Bike Scattante *** R570 (new at PB) which has the following specs:


BOTTOM BRACKET: FSA Mega EXO 
PEDALS: Wellgo Clipless Road 
BRAKES: Tektro R520, dual pivot 
REAR DERAILLEUR: New Shimano 105
CASSETTE: New Shimano 105, CS-5700, 10-speed, 12-25T 
CHAIN: KMC DX10 SC, 1/2"x11/128",116L 
CRANKSET: FSA Gossamer, 50/39/30T chainrings 
FORK: SL3 1 1/8" CroMo steerer, carbon legs 
FRAME: XRL double-butted Aluminum, double water bottle mounts, replaceable rear derailleur hanger 
FRONT DERAILLEUR: New Shimano 105, FD-5700 
GRIPS/TAPE: Velo Gel 
HANDLEBAR: Alloy, 31.8mm Center, Width: 400mm(48cm), 420mm(51/54cm), 440mm(57/60cm) 
HEADSET: Cane Creek 1 1/8" integrated, alloy top cap 
LEVERS: New Shimano 105 ST-5700 
RACK MOUNTS: No 
SADDLE: Prologo Scratch Pro 
SEATPOST: Alloy, 27.2 X 300mm 
SHIFTERS: New Shimano 105 ST-5700 
STEM: Alloy, ID: 28.6mm, -5 degree, Bar bore: 31.8mm, Length: 90mm(48cm), 100mm(51cm), 110mm(54cm), 120mm(57/60cm) 
TIRES: Vittoria Zaffiro, 700c x 23
WHEELSET: Alex ALX270, 700C, Front: 20H radial, Rear :24H, Stainless Steel spokes

The price with their current sale is $599, which seemed to be fair. 

Comments regarding whether or not this is a good deal or other recommendations would be appreciated.


*** Scattante...really awful name....


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## monkeyzero (Aug 13, 2011)

bossride, I was just looking at that exact bike at PB last week during the sale, rides nice and looks pretty to me. If it fits its a good deal IMO. Only reason I didn't get it is I'm having a conflict of interest with the employees at my PB.

I'm not a wiki for components, but 105s seem to be the standard for a ride in that price range. They are "considered" the lowish end of Shimano but seem solid to me. In short, I like it. FWIW.


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## PJ352 (Dec 5, 2007)

bossride said:


> I looked at a 2010 Performance Bike Scattante R570 (new at PB)...
> 
> Comments regarding whether or not this is a good deal or other recommendations would be appreciated.


That's a good price for the specs, but be careful of the sizing. The bike is offered in 5 sizes in 3cm increments, so it's likely that a size will fit you or it won't. That given, I suggest getting sized// fitted, test riding the bike and deciding from there.

This assumes a PB shop is located near you. If not, I'd advise against purchasing a bike you can't test ride.


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## PJ352 (Dec 5, 2007)

monkeyzero said:


> ...105s seem to be the standard for a ride in that price range...


Not IME. Even BD bikes don't offer full 105 until around the $800 mark, and the LBS offerings from Trek, Giant, C'dale and others start at around $1,300.



monkeyzero said:


> They are "considered" the lowish end of Shimano but seem solid to me.


Maybe in your opinion, but considering 105 is a race worthy group only 2 notches down from Shimano's flagship group, I'd hardly call it 'lowish end'. For road groups, Shimano 2300 and Sora fit that bill.


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## monkeyzero (Aug 13, 2011)

PJ352 said:


> Not IME. Even BD bikes don't offer full 105 until around the $800 mark, and the LBS offerings from Trek, Giant, C'dale and others start at around $1,300.
> 
> 
> Maybe in your opinion, but considering 105 is a race worthy group only 2 notches down from Shimano's flagship group, I'd hardly call it 'lowish end'. For road groups, Shimano 2300 and Sora fit that bill.


Guess that proves not to trust the internet. Why do I read so much 105 bashing then? (not arguing, legitimately asking) 
Like I said, I like 105 parts. Just seemed the consensus over a lot of reading that they are the low end and the 2300 and Sora "arent even worth mentioning" in a lot of opinions. 
Then again, everyone's different.
As for the price range, I'll admit I was considering "sales" bc I hardly ever buy at full retail. No harm?


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## PJ352 (Dec 5, 2007)

monkeyzero said:


> Guess that proves not to trust the internet. Why do I read so much 105 bashing then? (not arguing, legitimately asking)
> Like I said, I like 105 parts. Just seemed the consensus over a lot of reading that they are the low end and the 2300 and Sora "arent even worth mentioning" in a lot of opinions.
> Then again, everyone's different.
> As for the price range, I'll admit I was considering "sales" bc I hardly ever buy at full retail. No harm?


Without knowing your specific sources, I can't answer your question re: 105 bashing. For certain, there are SRAM and Campy proponents, but the fact remains that Shimano's 105 group is close in both refinement and performance to Ultegra, so low end simply doesn't apply.

Re: the comment that 2300 and Sora "aren't even worth mentioning", I'd have to say (as you have) that opinions vary. But IME if they're set up and adjusted properly, they too will perform and function well, albeit at a lower level of refinement that 105. 

Their ergonomics are somewhat lacking in that the thumb tabs are difficult to operate from the drops, but being an entry level group and since most cyclists primarily ride on the tops and hoods, IMO it's a non-issue. And the group one level up from Sora (Tiagra) alleviates the thumb tab and shifts the same as 105, Ultegra and DA, so there are choices available at different price points. 

As for the price ranges, BD doesn't have sales, and even considering sale prices from LBS's, the brands I mentioned would still come in around $1,150 - well above the $600 of the Scattante. And just to clarilfy, I'm not promoting that anyone buy the Scattante (or similar) simply because it's spec'd well for the price. I think the true measure of a good deal is a bike that fits well, because fit brings comfort and efficiency, and is more apt to keep the cyclist motivated and riding.


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## monkeyzero (Aug 13, 2011)

PJ352 said:


> I think the true measure of a good deal is a bike that fits well, because fit brings comfort and efficiency, and is more apt to keep the cyclist motivated and riding.


Exactly what i originally said, as for the other items, I've proven, sadly, that for a great majority of cyclists out there, myself included, we depend on the recommendations of others and learn through trial and error. Those recommendations, unfortunately, can also be misinformation (such as it seems in my case).
I think your average rider won't know/understand the nuances between 105, ultegra, etc., and in most cases it will never make a difference in the quality of their ride. But, when researching to at least learn something about our purchase and not go in blind, theres a lot of opinion out there and things can get confusing fast, case in point, the differences between 105 and ultegra to a layman. Like me, who comes on a forum and regurgitates info thinking they're being helpful. 
Can you hold my shovel for a minute?


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## PJ352 (Dec 5, 2007)

monkeyzero said:


> Exactly what i originally said, as for the other items, I've proven, sadly, that for a great majority of cyclists out there, myself included, we depend on the recommendations of others and learn through trial and error. Those recommendations, unfortunately, can also be misinformation (such as it seems in my case).
> I think your average rider won't know/understand the nuances between 105, ultegra, etc., and in most cases it will never make a difference in the quality of their ride. But, when researching to at least learn something about our purchase and not go in blind, theres a lot of opinion out there and things can get confusing fast, case in point, the differences between 105 and ultegra to a layman. Like me, who comes on a forum and regurgitates info thinking they're being helpful.
> Can you hold my shovel for a minute?


No worries. Overall, I think you're posting good info here. Like so many tools we use, there are positive as well as negative aspects, so while there's a wealth if info available on the web, sifting through it to decipher good from bad can be a challenge. 

As far as offering advice here, FWIW, if I'm relaying info 'second hand', I usually cite the source or include that I have no firsthand experience. That way, the reader can take that info with a grain of salt. Conversely, if I do have experience, I say so. And never fear, if you (or I or another member) post something controversial/ arguable or just plain wrong, someone calls us to task on it, but that (IMO) is the beauty of the forum.

Back to the convo re: Shimano's road groups. I agree with your comments on the nuances of 105 versus Ultegra and (generally speaking) think that cyclists tend to over buy - basing decisions on what they might _want_ more than what they might _need_. Not being critical of those practices, but I do think most recreational riders would do fine with Sora or Tiagra, and in practical terms proper gearing would have as much (if not more) impact on their rides than the group. 

Just a FYI... I wasn't countering your fit comments before. I was merely clarifying (to others) that while I think the PB bike in question may be well spec'd, fit should take precedence in any purchasing decision.


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## bossride (Aug 13, 2011)

Thanks for the advice.

I am still learning about how to fit a bike. I did a standover on a 51cm bike and had a couple of inches clearance. Without adjustment, when I sat on the seat with a pedal at the low point, my knee was slightly bent. I haven't taken it for a test ride, so I don't know how the feel is, but intend to do so next weekend before the sale ends. Any tips on what I should be looking for?

My self measured size (using the Colorado Cyclist site) indicates a starting point of 52.75cm (31" pubic bone height x 2.54 x.67). Another site (using the Rivendale Cycle Works site) indicates the starting point is 54cm. I understand that bikes differ one to another, but is the 51cm in the proper range? On the Rivendale site, I read that a too small frame will cause discomfort, especially with the back, something I want to avoid. (The site also told me how to factor in my junk when standing over a bike, something of which I was unsure!)

Sorry to the original poster if I hijacked this thread, but I hope my questions are somewhat on topic.


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## PJ352 (Dec 5, 2007)

bossride said:


> Thanks for the advice.
> 
> *I am still learning about how to fit a bike*. I did a standover on a 51cm bike and had a couple of inches clearance. Without adjustment, when I sat on the seat with a pedal at the low point, my knee was slightly bent. I haven't taken it for a test ride, so I don't know how the feel is, but intend to do so next weekend before the sale ends. Any tips on what I should be looking for?
> 
> ...


First, a comment on the bolded statement. While it's always to our advantage to learn about a given topic, you shouldn't be the primary person fitting the bike. That's the fitters job. Of course, it would serve you well to take a pro-active role, but tap their experience as well.

From your description, I think your approach is slightly off. First, how you're proportioned and how flexible you are will determine sizing. I'm not a fan of online calculators because they only output based on what you input, so your cycling experiences, fitness, flexibility, personal preferences are not a part of the equation. They'll sometimes get you close to a range of measurements that might work, but working one on one with you an experienced fitter can do better, because they're seeing you on the bike, and can taylor fit accordingly.

Some general info on the key facets of a fitting. Based on the criteria I mentioned previously, sizing comes before fitting. Reach, saddle to bar drop and (to some extent) standover are considered, usually in that order of importance, but saddle height, fore/ aft and tilt have to be set first so that reach and drop can be tweaked. With most riders of average proportions, when a bike is sized correctly, saddle height and standover pretty much fall into place, so focus more on reach and drop. Also, you don't straddle a bike bare foot, so geo charts listing standover can mislead. For example, some pedal stack heights can add 1.5cm's to your inseam height.

If you post your height and cycling inseam, we'll be able to reference the geo chart for the PB bike and ball park the size (or sizes) that would likely work for you. The keywords here are 'ball park', so (again) leave the fitting to the fitter, but test ride afterwards, because the bottom line is you have to be comfortable to be efficient. Have them tweak fit till you attain that goal.


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## bossride (Aug 13, 2011)

I really appreciate the assistance.

I am still learning the terms, so I may have used them incorrectly. I guess I should have said size instead of fit. It sounds a little bit like buying a suit. First you determine the size you wear and then the tailor fits it to your body. Usually the initial size is a good starting point, but sometimes, depending on the cut of the suit, the size has to be changed before the fit. Its all in the skill of the tailor whether the suit fits right or not. As with a suit, I would not try to fit a bike without qualified help.

If I understand cycling inseam correctly, it is 31 1/2". (I didn't know this term here is what I used: Standing barefoot, feet shoulder width apart, book firmly in the crotch with pressure about the same as it would be when on the saddle.) In my first post, I figured it to be 31", but using the above, I believe 31 1/2" to be correct. 

I am 5'8" tall and have the flexibility of an average 56 year old (my age) who has been making an effort to get back in shape after years of neglect by riding a home Nautilus stationary bike with the goal of getting on a real bike. I ride my stationary bike for at least an hour, usually split over two sessions, almost everyday. On days where I have a longer session (approx 90 minutes at one time), it tells me that I traveled around 25 miles with a cadence (rpms on the Nautilus) of between 80 and 100. Along the way, I have lost about 30 pounds.

While on vacation this year, I took my old Roadmaster Navigator 18 speed bike with me. The first time out, over table-top flat beach roads, I went 23 miles without a break and felt good when I did stop. Since then, I have done several 10-15 mile rides and see the need to get a more modern bike.

Since, I am very much a novice, I want to make sure I am as informed as I can be. When talking with the salesman at PB, while very helpful, I noticed some errors (telling me the GT Series 2 Apex had a full carbon fiber frame and pronouncing monocoque as "mono-q"). When it came to the standover, when he told me to see how much space there was between me and the top tube, I wasn't quite sure how firm I had to be in pulling it up and didn't know enough to ask him. Because I dmight not have pulled the 51cm bike up firmly enough, I may have given him the wrong starting point. I am trying to figure out how to do this and the other things correctly to get the size and fit right.

That is why I truly appreciate all the advice.


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## PJ352 (Dec 5, 2007)

bossride said:


> I really appreciate the assistance.
> 
> I am still learning the terms, so I may have used them incorrectly. I guess I should have said size instead of fit. It sounds a little bit like buying a suit. First you determine the size you wear and then the tailor fits it to your body. Usually the initial size is a good starting point, but sometimes, depending on the cut of the suit, the size has to be changed before the fit. Its all in the skill of the tailor whether the suit fits right or not. As with a suit, I would not try to fit a bike without qualified help.
> 
> ...


Good job on the background info. It's apparent that you're thorough, so I see why you want to take an active role in this process.

You have the sizing/ fitting thing pretty well nailed, but as an overview; sizing matches bike geo to the rider, then fit tweaks adjustments (stem length, angle, spacers, minor saddle adjustments, as needed), then come test rides. Tweaks are made until the rider is comfortable. Where it gets confusing is that the overall process is called a fitting, but consists of sizing (the rider) first, then fitting. Bike geo that suites a rider fits 'out of the box', which means tweaks to fit are very minor. The more geo strays from the ideal (for a given rider), the more compromises have to be made to fit. 

Rather than assume we know your intended purposes, give us some additional info on the types of riding you're looking to do. The reason I ask is because intended use should match the type of bike you focus on. As an example, a hybrid (basically a flat bar road bike) will suite the purpose for a commuter or recreational rider looking to do 10, 15, 20 mile rides. For longer (fitness/ training/ charities/ century) rides, drop bar bikes are the better choice, mainly because they offer more options in hand positions, but also because f/r weight distribution shifts some weight off the lower back. You may already know you want a drop bar bike, but I thought I'd add this, just in case... 

You're probably close on your cycling inseam, but try the method below. 
_With your back against a wall, your bare feet 6" apart on a hard floor, looking straight ahead. Place a book or carpenter's square between your legs with one edge against the wall, and pull it up firmly into your crotch, simulating the pressure of your saddle while riding. Have a helper measure from the top edge of the book to the floor, in centimeters. (You can convert inches to centimeters by multiplying inches by 2.54.) Repeat two or three times, for consistency, and average the results to get your inseam length. _

Going through the above process is more for your knowledge than anything, because I suspect the best we're going to be able to do via the internet is to determine that you're between a 51 and 54cm in the PB bike. Honing in on the size is going to require that someone work with you, and with a 3cm spread, it's possible that you'll be between sizes, but time will tell. 

Regarding your comment about the PB employee, I'll revert back to my advice that it's not up to you to set the stage for a fitter to size you correctly. Also, if he used stand over as the _primary_ reference point for sizing, he's not very knowledgeable. This leaves you with several options, like asking for another employee to assist (if/ when you return), taking it upon yourself to get sizing right (not the best choice, IMO), or taking a step back and rethink where you'd like to shop for a bike.

Lastly, kudo's to you on your weight loss and ambitious training regimen. Great job! :thumbsup:


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## wcipolli (Aug 17, 2011)

I got mine off of Craigslist for $50. Getting one used is a nice way to start out. I also know that many cities have bike collectors that grab abandoned bikes. For a small fee and time to build a bike from those parts you can have a cheap bike and some building experience!


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## douginwa (Jun 22, 2009)

I bought my first serious road bike 2 years ago. Prior to shopping and researching, I set my price point @ $700.00 - $800.00. After 2 weeks of research and shopping I spent $1,500.00 and have not regretted it for a minute.


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## biker_on_a_budget (Aug 19, 2011)

I've got a blog about getting started biking on a budget. I bought mine at a garage sale for $20. Craigslist is also a great place to look. Just make sure you know what size frame to look for, and always take the bike on a test spin to make sure it is comfortable and the components work.


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## Aaron McDevitt (Aug 23, 2011)

First: Craigslist is amazing. I got the first bike I really liked off there for $150 - a 10 year old Novara Strada. I got my second bike off Craigslist as well - an almost-new Motobecane Sprint w/ added Mavik Ksyrium SL wheels for $900. I still don't know much about parts, but I haven't had to adjust anything until today, and I bought the bike 2 years ago. So craigslist is great.

Next thing - sizing: to those experienced riders out there, does it matter all that much? I've been riding for a few years - though not obsessing over it - and I don't find frame size to be a huge deal. The seat can be adjusted a few inches in any direction, so the only difference I might feel is a maximum 3 degree angle difference in my legs to the pedals. I bought my bike even though the all-knowing internet told me it was a few cm too big, but I adjusted the seat and it's given me the best ride ever for 2 years now. Does anyone have a reason why sizing is so important?


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## PJ352 (Dec 5, 2007)

Aaron McDevitt said:


> Next thing - sizing: to those experienced riders out there, does it matter all that much? I've been riding for a few years - though not obsessing over it - and I don't find frame size to be a huge deal. The seat can be adjusted a few inches in any direction, so the only difference I might feel is a maximum 3 degree angle difference in my legs to the pedals. I bought my bike even though the all-knowing internet told me it was a few cm too big, but I adjusted the seat and it's given me the best ride ever for 2 years now. *Does anyone have a reason why sizing is so important*?


Sizing pretty much dictates the starting point for rider position/ weight distribution and the overall handling of the bike, with the ultimate result (of a good fit) being comfort and efficiency. That given, I see no other aspect more important than sizing, with fit being a close second. 

Get sizing (or more accurately, a bikes geo) close to right for a given rider, and only minimal changes will be needed to stem length, angle and spacers to meet reach and drop requirements. Assuming relatively 'normal' rider proportions, saddle height, KOPS (+/-) and standover fall into place, with saddle height, KOPS and 'tilt' being set prior to stem adjustments. 

Without knowing more about your anatomy and bike setup, I can't comment on your remark that a bike a few cm's too big fits you well, other than to say it might not _really_ be too large, you have nothing to compare it to, your previous bike(s) fit worse and/ or you've been blessed with an anatomy that adapts well. As an example, I'm very sensitive to reach and drop parameters to a point where a couple of mm's matter, but can ride most any saddle with cheapo shorts without issue. 

Just a FYI, I read in another post where you adjusted saddle fore/ aft seemingly to adjust for reach. While that may have worked for you, it's not the correct method to use. Saddle fore/ aft is used to set KOPS (+/- depending on rider preference/ needs) and once set, _then_ adjustments are made to stem length/ angle as needed. The reason behind using this method brings us back to sizing/ weight distribution. Moving (rear) rider weight forward frequently results in arm/ hand discomfort, so (as stated) it's best to set and keep saddle adjustments, _then_ address reach issues via stem adjustments.


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## Aaron McDevitt (Aug 23, 2011)

PJ352 said:


> Just a FYI, I read in another post where you adjusted saddle fore/ aft seemingly to adjust for reach. While that may have worked for you, it's not the correct method to use. Saddle fore/ aft is used to set KOPS (+/- depending on rider preference/ needs) and once set, _then_ adjustments are made to stem length/ angle as needed. The reason behind using this method brings us back to sizing/ weight distribution. Moving (rear) rider weight forward frequently results in arm/ hand discomfort, so (as stated) it's best to set and keep saddle adjustments, _then_ address reach issues via stem adjustments.


Yeah, I did put the seat forward for that reason. I've been riding for a few years, but until yesterday, never knew there were that many fitting criteria!

I put the seat almost all the way forward, with maybe half an inch to spare. It did get me sitting on the seat better without too much reach. I've been riding it comfortably for maybe 1.5 or 2 years now.

I didn't know what you meants by "KOPS" so I looked it up. It seems that knee over anywhere is all the same in terms power, if everything else is adjusted accordingly, but too far forward could cause too much weight on the hands for comfort.

I just now sat on it and found that my knees are maybe 1 or 2 cm forward of the pedal spindles. Doesn't seem like much, and I don't have trouble riding. I am wondering if the reason I remain in comfort is that I hardly ever rode more than my 9 mile commute, or 30 miles in a day...?

On the same subject, I am wondering about weight distribution (a common topic around here). I don't have a force sensor in my habdlebars or seat, so I'm not sure how I would go about measuring it. I do know that I have a significant amount of weight on my hands in the drops, but it is still possible to let go and hold the "drop" position, with some difficulty.

Would you say this is too much forward weight, or just right?


EDIT:
Just thought of something - it seems possible that a bigger frame (assuming same proportions) will work almost equally well by moving the seat forward, because the bigger frame causes the seat to move back more, assuming a taller person. Moving the seat forward would compensate for KOPS as well as the longer top tube. Then the only difference would be height, and the only effect would be that lowering the seat to compensate would change the relative height of the seat to the handlebars.


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## PJ352 (Dec 5, 2007)

Aaron McDevitt said:


> Yeah, I did put the seat forward for that reason. I've been riding for a few years, but until yesterday, never knew there were that many fitting criteria!
> 
> I put the seat almost all the way forward, with maybe half an inch to spare. It did get me sitting on the seat better without too much reach. I've been riding it comfortably for maybe 1.5 or 2 years now.
> 
> ...


Just for the record, I (and others on this forum) can offer accepted or best practices on aspects of bike fit, but the desired result is comfort and efficiency. If you feel you've attained that with your current setup, by all means stay with it. If OTOH you're open to the possibility that you might benefit from some changes, dabble a little. Nothing's irreversable (as long as you track your changes).

FWIW I completely agree with you on your assessment of KOPS. It's meant to position a rider so that ~55% of his/ her weight is on the saddle, which pretty much dictates that ~45% will be on the bars, hopefully alleviating arm and hand discomfort.

If you're guestimating your KOPS by eyeballing, I'd bet you're off by a fair amount. It's hard enough to do using the proper method without assistance, so if you're interested in getting a better idea of your position, respond and I'll provide info.

In answer to your question re: the reason you can ride in comfort, no one can say for certain, but it's a given that the longer the ride, the higher the likelihood that the weakest link in bike fit will cause a problem. 

Re: how you'd go about determining weight distribution, it's pretty simple. First, weigh you and the bike to get total weight. Next, make sure the bike is level, place the scale under the rear wheel and prop up the front wheel, sit on the bike in your 'normal' riding position and note the weight. Repeat with the scale under the front wheel (propping up the rear), then calculate the percentages of total weight at each wheel. Obviously, you'll need a helper and care must be taken to keep you and the bike stable, so apply the brake(s) while leaning against a wall (or similar).

Re: your comments on a larger frame, I think your description is generally accurate, although somewhat oversimplifiied, because while the adjustments you mention would compensate for the change in frame proportions, they don't necessarily result in correct f/r weight distribution or an overall well fitting bike. And although a fairly minor difference, as frames 'grow' head tube lengths also grow, so as you compensate for saddle height, you decrease saddle to bar drop, unless related changes are made to stem/ spacer setup. 

Fit is all about compromises and (as I mentioned in my previous post) when sizing is correct, compromises can be kept small, IME bettering the odds of getting a rider a better (more comfortable/ efficient) fit.


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## brianrparker (Aug 27, 2011)

Good read.


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## BigBird (Aug 28, 2011)

flatsix911 said:


> Forget the used bike search ... you will disappointed with most of the junk.
> Take a look on-line for a good value ... including free shipping and no tax :thumbsup:
> 
> *Best
> ...


based on the recommendation I am contemplating on pulling the trigger and get the Gravity Pro 20, which just has upgrades to Ultegra and a better BB, etc. Since this will be my first bike, what else will I need besides pedals?

Is the Pro for $100 more worth it? 

Should I look at other bikes instead...so many options and paths to take. Started with a $400 budget, then looked at the Litespeed M1 for $1450, but decided that was a little too much and now I think the Gravity Pro 20 would be a decent in between choice. What sayeth the forums?


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## Peter_leo (Aug 26, 2011)

That price range might be tough. Bikesdirect.com has some good prices, but unless you know exactly what size bike you need and what you want, buying online might be risky. You might want to try craigslist.com. If you find something near where you live, you could go check it out before buying. Some bike shops have a selection of used bikes for sale, too.


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## flatsix911 (Jun 28, 2009)

BigBird said:


> based on the recommendation I am contemplating on pulling the trigger and get the Gravity Pro 20, which just has upgrades to Ultegra and a better BB, etc. Since this will be my first bike, what else will I need besides pedals?
> 
> Is the Pro for $100 more worth it?
> 
> Should I look at other bikes instead...so many options and paths to take. Started with a $400 budget, then looked at the Litespeed M1 for $1450, but decided that was a little too much and now I think the Gravity Pro 20 would be a decent in between choice. What sayeth the forums?


My advice is to buy the best bike you can afford ... later upgrades are_ very _expensive.
Having said that, the Gravity Pro 20 with Ultegra is nice, and the Gravity Team 20 with Dura Ace is really nice. :thumbsup:

*Ultegra 6700, 20Spd 2011 Gravity Pro20 $899*
Advanced 20Spd, Semi-Compact AL Frame, Carbon Aero Fork
Gravity Pro20 









*Dura-Ace 7900, 20Spd 2011 Gravity Team $1,199*
Advanced 20Spd, Semi-Compact AL Frame,Carbon Aero Fork
Gravity Team


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