# I have a question.......



## Len J (Jan 28, 2004)

Ladies, this is your forum and I'm not sure, as a guy, how you would like me to repond in your forum.

The recent unwanted advances thread is, I think a good example of the differences between how men perceive a problem and how women do. In retrospect, I'm not sure that I should have/would have responded the way I did if I gave more thought to these differences and the fact that this was a womens forum.

It was pointed out to me that "this is the one forum where a woman should I think just get to come in and vent about this issue without being dressed down on all the ideological implications".........this gave me pause....I hadn't thought about it in those terms.

So, in a rambling way I'm asking..........what do you want from/not want from the men that visit this forum and what are you looking for from us in terms of types of responses.

It's your "Home" & I don't want to put my feet up on the coffee table if it's not OK with you is all.

Thanks

len


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## Bocephus Jones II (Oct 7, 2004)

Len J said:


> Ladies, this is your forum and I'm not sure, as a guy, how you would like me to repond in your forum.
> 
> The recent unwanted advances thread is, I think a good example of the differences between how men perceive a problem and how women do. In retrospect, I'm not sure that I should have/would have responded the way I did if I gave more thought to these differences and the fact that this was a womens forum.
> 
> ...


Not to be insulting or stereotypical, but I've often found that women like to talk about the problem first and men want to immediately solve it. This often leads to great frustration on both sides.


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## Rollo Tommassi (Feb 5, 2004)

*Puttin' my feet on the coffee table.....*

Honestly Len, I wouldn't want anyone, regardless of gender, to censor their reponses in the "Womens" Forum. But that thread has 'put the blue touch paper' to a host of thoughts for me.

When I got a PM from Gregg asking if this type of Forum was desired, I wasn't sure how to respond. My gut reaction was no...we don't want to be separate, we want to be equal. 
If we have talk about yeast infections, I'll post it in General, and I'd be happy to hear from anyone with experience or expertise. What would Kerry Irons say?

I still remember the sound of the board falling over stunned when they learned "Rollo's a GIRL". It brought no end of mirth for me, too. In many ways, I had liked being genderless, the utopia we all wish for, where you can ride down the street and nobody cares what chromosomes you have. 

A little boy asked me once "Are you a boy or a girl" to which I replied..."What do you want me to be?" Oh my god the look on his face...he ran away.

The world is a rough place; the Internet allows for anonymity in an equally rough environment. You have to learn to adapt and get respect. I had to do this myself in my professional career, for example. How, as a woman, do I lead a crew of stagehands at 6:00am? I walked up to them with a cup of coffee, introduced myself, took a sip of coffee, tossed my head back and gargled it. "Are ya ready to go?" I said, and they all laughed and decided I was "ok". I knew my job, and I respected their doubts about me. But I wasn't going to ask them to treat me differently just because I had to sit to pee.

I agreed with w FTK's arguement, too, and I don't see him as being hostile. Hostile at double standards, yes, but not hostile to the forum or its' intent. I would, however, urge him to avoid clubs where his balls get grabbed :blush2: 

We were, after all, talking about Moreons shouting out from car windows. What's that saying about "Better to keep your mouth shut than remove all doubt of your stupidity"?. Something about wrapping yourself in two tons of car removes all doubts, apparently.

Bocephus makes a VERY perceptive comment:
"Not to be insulting or stereotypical, but I've often found that women like to talk about the problem first and men want to immediately solve it. This often leads to great frustration on both sides" 

I think this is key to understanding how very differently women and men react to comments on the road. Women are taught to view and react to the world as a Victim; Men are taught to view and react to the world as a Threat. The former is acted upon and must seek protection, the latter views the Threat as something to react TO and defy.

I have spent the better part of my life trying to be the latter, defy the threat, stand up to the challenge, the Gary Cooper 'them's fighting words' pride. I got my DeNiro down pretty good here in the city: "You talkin' to me?" "You got a problem wit that?" The evil eye, as she said, but I got the whole face that says to the driver: "you make me come through that windsheild and I'll BITE."

I guess the upshot is that even though it's a Women's Cycling Forum, it should not be only for Women. There's plenty of room on the couch, just take your shoes off before putting them on the coffee table. :23:


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## KenB (Jul 28, 2004)

Rollo Tommassi said:


> I think this is key to understanding how very differently women and men react to comments on the road. Women are taught to view and react to the world as a Victim; Men are taught to view and react to the world as a Threat. The former is acted upon and must seek protection, the latter views the Threat as something to react TO and defy.


That's an excellent way of describing it. "React TO and defy".... In the two times I've ever been honked at, I've waved the drivers over so I could confront them. It was a completely instinctual reaction.


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## physasst (Oct 1, 2005)

*But*



KenB said:


> Rollo Tommassi said:
> 
> 
> > I think this is key to understanding how very differently women and men react to comments on the road. Women are taught to view and react to the world as a Victim; Men are taught to view and react to the world as a Threat. The former is acted upon and must seek protection, the latter views the Threat as something to react TO and defy./quote]
> ...


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## Rollo Tommassi (Feb 5, 2004)

*What's the dress code?????*

Commando!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


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## il sogno (Jul 15, 2002)

Len J said:


> Ladies, this is your forum and I'm not sure, as a guy, how you would like me to repond in your forum.
> 
> The recent unwanted advances thread is, I think a good example of the differences between how men perceive a problem and how women do. In retrospect, I'm not sure that I should have/would have responded the way I did if I gave more thought to these differences and the fact that this was a womens forum.
> 
> ...


I for one welcome men posting here. We need you guys for the wrenching threads!  

There are many wonderful people on RBR, both male and female whose posts I always pay close attention to because I think they put a lot of thought into their words and have a ton of wisdom to offer. 

What do I *not *want here? Personal insults and posts objectifying women.

What do I want here? Honest opinions posted in a polite and respectful manner.


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## wayneanneli (Jul 8, 2004)

il sogno said:


> I for one welcome men posting here. We need you guys for the wrenching threads!
> 
> There are many wonderful people on RBR, both male and female whose posts I always pay close attention to because I think they put a lot of thought into their words and have a ton of wisdom to offer.
> 
> ...


I agree with Il Sogno and Rollo wholeheartedly. Gosh, I still remember my surprise when I found out that Rollo was a woman. I think that the Women's + forum is great because all too often, threads in the lounge lack some of the seriousness that women look for. And this is a place where they can hopefully post female related issues with certain rules. This is fine by me. It is true what Rollo stated about men and women being on equal footing, we should be. I think the problem is that because RBR is generally male dominated, many female questions might get buried in some forum or another and not get the attention or proper answers it deserves. This way, women know exactly where to go regardless and it's simpler. 
Cheers, Wayne


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## il sogno (Jul 15, 2002)

wayneanneli said:


> I agree with Il Sogno and Rollo wholeheartedly. Gosh, I still remember my surprise when I found out that Rollo was a woman. I think that the Women's + forum is great because all too often, threads in the lounge lack some of the seriousness that women look for. And this is a place where they can hopefully post female related issues with certain rules. This is fine by me. It is true what Rollo stated about men and women being on equal footing, we should be. I think the problem is that because RBR is generally male dominated, many female questions might get buried in some forum or another and not get the attention or proper answers it deserves. This way, women know exactly where to go regardless and it's simpler.
> Cheers, Wayne


I was pretty surprised to find out Rollo was a woman too. Me, I kept my gender under wraps for a long time. I didn't see how my gender would make any difference when giving putting in my .02 cents on campy vs. shimano. Puh-lease let's not go there. I've had enough craziness for today! 

Back then I was also concerned it leave me open to gender based attacks in PO. Turns out it hasn't.


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## physasst (Oct 1, 2005)

*Yep*

I remember my surprise when I figured out Jtolleson was a woman...I honestly thought she was a guy for like my first six months on here.....


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## KenB (Jul 28, 2004)

il sogno said:


> Back then I was also concerned it leave me open to gender based attacks in PO. Turns out it hasn't.


That's because we're so civilized in PO. A MODEL of civility, you might say. The rest of the forums would do well to follow our example.


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## il sogno (Jul 15, 2002)

Psssst.... I think there are still some guys down there who think I'm a man.


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## JayTee (Feb 3, 2004)

Yeah, I still remember in the old forums when I posted a photo in a thread and got so many surprised reactions! 

PS -- Was this before or after you had "In love with jtolleson" above your avatar?


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## Ridgetop (Mar 1, 2005)

You're a woman?????  . I was with the rest of the gang who didn't know for a while.

My take on these threads is to avoid them in general unless it is very specific (i.e. parts, repairs, etc.) or if directly being asked "All you men out there. . .. ", etc. I'll admit I probably just over reacted on my response to FTF on the original sexual attention thread, but I get angry when I see people react over the top like that. I've run into way too many guys who pull that crap, and the *******, horse ranching, angry part of me wants to kick some tail just to do so. Something about chips on shoulders that need to be knocked off (oh, oh here I go again). Anyway, I think some well thought out responses are all that are needed. 

Not, anger filled long paragraphs like in that thread. It could have been just as easily summed up as "Please don't lump all of us men in the same group. I for one don't hang out of car windows like a monkey on crack!" or whatever. I think if the guys just take the time to think out there answers rather than go off like a badly fused bomb whenever they feel "insulted" could result in some fantastic discussions without driving people away from the board. I for one am hoping that none of the women get driven off like they did from the Lounge. I really like lurking around and getting a different point of view and just sitting back and smiling at some new revelations or something that I may have gotten from the thread (how's that for a run on sentence?).


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## physasst (Oct 1, 2005)

*Hmmm*



jtolleson said:


> Yeah, I still remember in the old forums when I posted a photo in a thread and got so many surprised reactions!
> 
> PS -- Was this before or after you had "In love with jtolleson" above your avatar?



Before......:idea: :wink: :wink: 

NTTAWWT....


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## JayTee (Feb 3, 2004)

Yer jus' so open minded, dude. ... NTTAWWT


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## physasst (Oct 1, 2005)

*I know....*



jtolleson said:


> Yer jus' so open minded, dude. ... NTTAWWT



it's a curse.....


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