# ISP Frames - would you buy another one?



## Sablotny (Aug 15, 2002)

For those of you who have bought, cut-to-fit and ridden an ISP frame - would you buy another ISP in the future?

I'd be interested to hear what brand or system your ISP frame is as well.


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## Sablotny (Aug 15, 2002)

I just bought and set up a 2010 Fuji SST. Some major sweating and triple/quadruple measuring, but I think I nailed it. Several rides down and all is good. I matched my previous saddle height within 1/16". The Fuji/Ritchey seatpost system seems fairly well thought out as well - 20mm of up and down leeway, and if you like you can use 1-1/8" headset spacers under the seatpost so that it not only clamps to the seatmast but physically bears on top as well.

But the hassle... and the drama. The 2011 SST comes with a more standard aero seatpost.


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## fab4 (Jan 8, 2003)

Sablotny said:


> For those of you who have bought, cut-to-fit and ridden an ISP frame - would you buy another ISP in the future?
> 
> I'd be interested to hear what brand or system your ISP frame is as well.


I have an FM015 ISP carbon frameset. It looks cool and all but I'm not going to buy another because you don't get any flexibility in term of adjusting the saddle height. If I have to switch my current saddle, it has be an exact match or another with lower profile.


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## alexb618 (Aug 24, 2006)

i ride an isp frame but wouldnt do it again

the initial cutting etc is not a problem, just becomes an issue when you want to try a new saddle or play around with your saddle height

i went from an SLR to a fizik arione saddle and the saddle height is now about 10mm higher


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## ms6073 (Jul 7, 2005)

alexb618 said:


> just becomes an issue when you want to try a new saddle or play around with your saddle height


I can understand going to a 'taller' saddle that would require once again cutting the seat mast but my experience with ISP framesets to include the Giant TCR Adavanced SL ISP. TCX Advanced SL ISP, Ridley X-Night is that all allow include shims that allow an increase in saddle height by an additional of 2-4cm depending on the type of seat mast saddle clamp. The TCR Advanced SL includes two seat mast saddle clamps - one that allows 2cm increase and another that allows 4cm increase. For me, the real hassle of an ISP style frame is a suitable travel case for shipping or airline travel which I solved with a couple EVOC Bike bags last cross season.


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## turbogrover (Jan 1, 2006)

I had no problem at all cutting and getting my saddle height on the 1st try. I'd get one again without question. I got one specifically because I think it looks killer, and I got a matching set of integrated bars and stem to match. Just measure and cut. If you don't know your saddle height, you shouldn't be doing stuff like that, but I know where my saddle should be at by now. There's enough room for height adjustment if I need it.


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## Sablotny (Aug 15, 2002)

6073 - a frame that comes with two different height seat clamps is a nice touch, as is 40mm of adjustment. I haven't used the Look e-Post, but I like the idea of the varying height & density spacers they include.

Turbo, I hear you on the "knowing your seat height" part. But I like to try new gear, saddles included, and an ISP makes saddle swapping an extra hassle. Nothing insurmountable, just another factor to work into the equation.


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## PoorCyclist (Oct 14, 2010)

I am not that sensitive to saddle height changes, reading in the forums people claim they can detect 2mm changes (really!?)

But yes you are locked into 1 adjustment, hassle changing saddle etc are all true.
even if you move your cleats you are supposed to adjust the saddle up or down to compensate. 

Don't forget there are a few mm differences between shoes sole thickness and pedal systems, you can use them to your advantage if needed (e.g. get a thin stack height shoe and Shimano pedals if you need a couple mm more of leg extension). It gave me some sleepless night worrying about the few mm differences when I upgrade pedals and shoes, but it was OK

You can keep cutting and shimming and mess around but I assume the consumer is expected to make that cut within 5mm of his fit AND equipment selection... find a good fitter before making the cut.


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## backinthesaddle (Nov 22, 2006)

ISPs are as easy to set up as a normal bike. EVERY ISP bike has enough flexibility to take equipment changes into account if the frame was set up correctly the first time. 
I've done several for others and two Ridleys for myself. It's not rocket science.

You are NOT locked into any adjustment. 2cm is ONE inch. 4cm...well, you know! If you change your equipment and position so radically, then even considering an ISP bike is simply the wrong choice.


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## ms6073 (Jul 7, 2005)

PoorCyclist said:


> I am not that sensitive to saddle height changes, reading in the forums people claim they can detect 2mm changes (really!?)


Yes there are. I often joke that my wife has the most calibrated knees in cycling as she can tell if here saddle is 1-2mm too high or her cleat is positioned 2mm to for forward/aft as I have found out each time I have gotten her a new frame or a new set of Specialized BG shoes. Problem is that when she senses such discrepancies, rather than relate this to me in millimeters, she usually says things like it is just a smidge or a hair off and it is up to me to raise her seat or reposition a cleat ~1mm (ie a hair == 1mm).


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## f3rg (May 11, 2008)

fab4 said:


> I have an FM015 ISP carbon frameset. It looks cool and all but I'm not going to buy another because you don't get any flexibility in term of adjusting the saddle height. If I have to switch my current saddle, it has be an exact match or another with lower profile.


Seriously, _no_ flexibility at all? I figured most ISP frame would give you at least 1cm, if not 2.


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## terry b (Jan 29, 2004)

Sablotny said:


> For those of you who have bought, cut-to-fit and ridden an ISP frame - would you buy another ISP in the future?
> 
> I'd be interested to hear what brand or system your ISP frame is as well.


I'd buy one again if I wanted the frame badly enough. But then I've never understood the drama over ISPs.


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## PLAYONIT (Aug 25, 2009)

I would buy another.... not a deal breaker though... I find the ISP bike is stiffer more rigid in the back top triangle. This is most evident to me while seated going up hill. Also, I have left enough adjustment using the Ritchie Stubby topper for any saddle changes... My take anyway but like I said, not a deal breaker if my next bike doesn't come in the ISP flavor - I will sleep very well....


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## PLAYONIT (Aug 25, 2009)

Double post


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## Mapei (Feb 3, 2004)

The paranoia regarding ISP's is grossly overblown, IMO. I'd much rather get all neurotic over whether I want my next brew to be an IPA or a Belgian.


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## Sablotny (Aug 15, 2002)

*Are you*



terry b said:


> I'd buy one again if I wanted the frame badly enough. But then I've never understood the drama over ISPs.


speaking of your 595 t-b? If so, there seems to be a bit more flexibility in the cut with the e-Post system and spacers.

Check this pic from the Time web page of the NXR. Looks like about 10mm of clamping area, which I would figure means about zero height adjustment.


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## ms6073 (Jul 7, 2005)

Sablotny said:


> Check this pic from the Time web page of the NXR. Looks like about 10mm of clamping area, which I would figure means about zero height adjustment.


I was under the impression that the 2011 NXR Instinct had sort of 2-3cm stubby seat post inside that seat mast clamp arrangement:


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## terry b (Jan 29, 2004)

Yea, I figure it's not harder than buying a design that give you what you want. The 595 is fine for my needs.


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## jcjordan (May 12, 2008)

My pervious bike was a Giant TCR SL0 (2008) and I loved the ISP. You could really tell the difference in stiffness in the transfer of power compared to a similar bike with a standard seat post. The real problem was getting the bike into a travel bag.
That being said I believe with a little thinking in the design phase can gain all the benefits of a ISP with none of the disadvantages. Proof of this is my current bike, a Merida Reacto 909.


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## Sablotny (Aug 15, 2002)

*The Ritchey ISP*

Figured I'd show the Ritchey ISP system on the Fuji, maybe to flesh out this post as a database of sorts.

What I like about it: seatclamp is non-proprietary to the frame maker, available from Ritchey. Ritchey offers a carbon version as well. Clamp is solid and secure. Rated for 5 Nm of torque with a 4mm Allen, perfect for use with the Ritchey Torque Key. Aero seatmast shape can use standard 1-1/8" headset spacers on top of seatmast to help ensure rock solid mounting.

What I don't like: clamp is so solid and secure its a bit heavy. Don't take it fully apart unless you're dexterous, mechanically inclined and/or can read directions - it breaks down into a handful of small parts. Shroud diameter a bit oversized for the seatmast, I used small pieces of electrical tape for a tight fit, and to protect the frame paint.

Starting to shop for a new saddle, hoping the rail-saddle height will be close enough with whatever I find not to require any funky shimming tricks.


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## bobswire (Aug 18, 2007)

No Problem you can get 40 -70mm ISP masts that give can give you an inch to play with.
So yes I'd buy another ISP frame if it was in the configuration of the frame I was interested in.
BTW this is a Pedal Force UD carbon ISP QS3 frame, new this year. lucked out and got in a group buy but they didn't have the frame I originally wanted in my size but this had just came in so they offered it to me for the same price. Fantastic frame!


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## nhluhr (Sep 9, 2010)

My BH has an aero seat mast but it provides a large degree of adjustability.










I love mine and would not hesitate to buy another ISM frame.


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