# steepest street close to NY City: Elm Av?



## Ken Roberts

Elm Avenue in Ridgefield NJ is about 3 miles from Manhattan -- see on map.
It has 125 vertical feet at a steepness around 18% grade, including a little "step" around 25% (and then another little step).

I was riding around Ridgefield exploring different roads, started climbing Elm east from Shaler Blvd. At first gentle, then moderate, then steep . . . and then I could see what was above and I couldn't believe it. So I turned off climbed Ray Av instead and did some more exploring. 
I came back and tried again, but when I reached the little "step", I lost confidence and stepped off my bike and walked to the top (so I could get good data for my GPS), then rode back down Ray. Tried again and this time I made it pedaling. But that little "step" is the steepest asphalt I've ever ridden up. It was pretty near the limit of my strength to keep the pedals turning.I would not ride _down_ it -- each time I took Ray Av just south of it instead -- which itself has a short section around 16% or more, so too steep for some people to descend on their bike, I guess walking is an alternative.​I didn't see any climbs close to the City steeper than that on the NYCC regional grades table -- though I've heard there's a steep climb in some park in northern Manhattan -- but maybe it's not really a street?GPS -- It was one of the first hills I've measured with my GPS with a barometric altimeter. Even with my GPS unit designed to measure elevation accurately (because the GPS satellite system itself is not designed for that), I still got somewhat inconsistent results (from five data "track" sequences for the same hill). Which gives me even less confidence than I had previously in steepness numbers reported by people using a _normal_ GPS unit (which lacks a barometric altimeter).​Ken


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## thegock

*vs. Fiddlers Elbow*

Ken,


I am an avid climber and have read your pages and posts quite often. Following your recommendation, I used Valley Drive to do my hill repeat training for Hillier. I wonder how you (subjectively) compare Elm St. in Ridgefield NJ to Fiddlers Elbow which I just climbed on the bike during Hillier.:cryin: Was it harder or easier to climb assuming the distances involved were equal? I used to work less than two miles from there and knew there were quite a lot of steep roads but never got over to Elm.

Also, just curious, which GPS has a barometric altimeter? I am considering the Garmin 705 right now.


The


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## Ken Roberts

thegock said:


> I wonder how you (subjectively) compare Elm St. in Ridgefield NJ to Fiddlers Elbow which I just climbed on the bike during Hillier.


I think Elm Av is harder in terms of maximum intense leg strength (for like 10 pedal strokes), but Fiddlers is harder for sustained effort. Surprise makes a difference for both -- the third time feels very different from the first time.It was just luck finding Elm. I wasn't looking for steep climbs, and I wasn't looking for Elm Avenue.​


thegock said:


> I used Valley Drive to do my hill repeat training for Hillier.


Valley Drive is such a treasure. I first heard it recommended just a year ago on this or another forum. So I tried it, and I keep going back to it. Funny I think of Warrenville Rd more as my main training climb and Valley Dr as a warmup. But I find myself doing Valley just as much as Warrenville. If you do Valley in a high enough gear, it's sort of like simulating Warrenville or some steeper climb. Except that Valley is quieter + prettier + interesting riding.



thegock said:


> which GPS has a barometric altimeter? I am considering the Garmin 705 right now.


I have a Garmin 60CS, but it's been discontinued as a product. I'm not much into GPS at all, so I actually haven't used it much. But now with all these questions about steepness, and seeing how much the rest of the world is into GPS for navigating in their cars (and how confusing using cue sheets can be for many cyclists) ... I thought it was time to dig my fancy old GPS out from the closet and figure out how to use it.

The Garmin website _says_ that their Edge 705 unit has "barometric altitude" -- so that sounds like the capability I'm talking about.

Ken

P.S. For those into using GPS to measure steepness, I suggest . . . trying it three times on the same hill -- also try it both climbing up (slow) and going down (fast) on the same hill -- and when you've got five or six different data "track" sequences for the same hill, see if the elevation profiles all say the same thing.


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## Dumbod

How does that compare to River Road from Edgewater up to the Bridge? (It may not be steeper but it is closer.)


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## SteveCnj

Ken Roberts said:


> Elm Avenue in Ridgefield NJ is about 3 miles from Manhattan -- see on map.
> It has 125 vertical feet at a steepness around 18% grade, including a little "step" around 25% (and then another little step).
> 
> I was riding around Ridgefield exploring different roads, started climbing Elm east from Shaler Blvd. At first gentle, then moderate, then steep . . . and then I could see what was above and I couldn't believe it. So I turned off climbed Ray Av instead and did some more exploring.
> 
> 
> I came back and tried again, but when I reached the little "step", I lost confidence and stepped off my bike and walked to the top (so I could get good data for my GPS), then rode back down Ray. Tried again and this time I made it pedaling. But that little "step" is the steepest asphalt I've ever ridden up. It was pretty near the limit of my strength to keep the pedals turning.I would not ride _down_ it -- each time I took Ray Av just south of it instead -- which itself has a short section around 16% or more, so too steep for some people to descend on their bike, I guess walking is an alternative.​I didn't see any climbs close to the City steeper than that on the NYCC regional grades table -- though I've heard there's a steep climb in some park in northern Manhattan -- but maybe it's not really a street?GPS -- It was one of the first hills I've measured with my GPS with a barometric altimeter. Even with my GPS unit designed to measure elevation accurately (because the GPS satellite system itself is not designed for that), I still got somewhat inconsistent results (from five data "track" sequences for the same hill). Which gives me even less confidence than I had previously in steepness numbers reported by people using a _normal_ GPS unit (which lacks a barometric altimeter).​Ken


When I saw your post regarding Fiddlers a few months back, I was going to post about Elm, but never did so. My in-laws live a few blocks from Elm and the adjacent very steep hills. On one of the hills I tried to ride I kept pulling out of my pedals. I'm not sure if it was Elm or one of the nearby streets. Looking at Google Street view, I'm not sure if Elm is the steepest or if it is one of the nearby streets between Shaler and Bergen Blvd. If you notice on Street view, there is a section that is not available, possibly due to the unbelievable grade of some of the streets, although Elm is very steep for the stretch you mention. I certainly wouldn't try to ride it downhill. Next time I'm in the area, I'll check to see if there is anything with a steeper grade than Elm.

There are few streets in North Bergen between Kennedy Blvd and Rts. 1/9 that may be close to Elm. Although, I've never tried to ride there.


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## Ken Roberts

SteveCnj said:


> There are few streets in North Bergen between Kennedy Blvd and Rts. 1/9 that may be close to Elm.


Thanks for the idea. Some rough estimates from old topo software suggest that 72nd St in North Bergen might have like 60 vertical feet around 20% grade, and 69th+70th might have some around 15%. Much shorter than Elm Av, but might be interesting.

Oddly "North Bergen" is to the _south_ -- in fact so far south that it's in northern Hudson county, not Bergen.

A hill that worked for me as a "warm up" for Elm Av, sort of along the way going south to Elm from the GWB, is Palisades Blvd in Palisades Park. It's steep section averages around 10%, but it has interesting variations that go steeper than that with rests in between. Too bad it isn't longer (like most of the hills in this area).



SteveCnj said:


> Next time I'm in the area, I'll check to see if there is anything with a steeper grade than Elm.


Glad to have lots of people looking for more opportunities.



Dumbod said:


> How does that compare to River Road from Edgewater up to the Bridge? (It may not be steeper but it is closer.)


Some rough estimates I did suggest that the main steep section of Elm Av is at least 50% steeper than the main steep section on Rt 505 / River Rd climbing north from Edgewater to the GWB. (Rt 505 may be closer but it sure gets lots of traffic, Palisades Blvd to the south or Speer to the north might be worth considering instead).I've reorganized my list of steep NJ hills so they're separated by county -- see here's my 
current list for Bergen county.​btw I'm not recommending Elm Av as a regular training hill. I see it as just a special challenge that's easily reachable from the city -- with the "little step" as its unique memory.

Ken


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## 6thElement

Ken Roberts said:


> -- though I've heard there's a steep climb in some park in northern Manhattan -- but maybe it's not really a street? Ken


There's a steep section of path in Highbridge park which gets used during MTB races and was the road bike section of the Hustle and Flow race earlier in the year.

/goes off to find the stats on the section...

edit: supposedly around 18%, but I'm not sure how much vert.


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## soulfly_nyc

Is Elm Street steeper than Ash road?

PS: what's up 6th!


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## goodvibe

The steepest climb that I have ever done in NJ is Warrenville Road out of Green Brook: 
http://connect.garmin.com/activity/1562451

I would have to say Eagle Rock Road in West Orange is pretty good: 
http://connect.garmin.com/activity/2203973


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## sullivab

I rode up Elm (well, not all the way up!) this past Saturday, and was wondering if there was a thread about it out there somewhere... 

I bailed part way up the first "step," when I felt like I was going to tip over sideways, or maybe backwards; the steep portion of the part I was able to ride up and measure (with my Garmin 305) rose 114 feet @ 15.2% average grade. Much steeper after that, of course. 

I was scouting hills in the area for training, and tried a bunch of the climbs on the western side of Bergen Blvd & Kennedy Blvd. These are the stats I came up with for some others:

Edgewater Ave in Ridgefield: 236 feet rise @ 10.5% avg grade

79th St in North Bergen: 140 feet @ 11%

69th St / 70th St in North Bergen (from Tonnelle): 182 feet @ 14.6%
About 80 feet of this rise was around 19%. Peanuts compared to the tough part of Elm.
Starting from the flat across Tonnelle, the total climb comes out to 240 feet @ 10.5%

51st St in North Bergen: 132 feet @ 11.8%

Bergen Turnpike / 32nd St in North Bergen: 126 feet @ 8.1%

North Street in Jersey City: 110 feet @ 11.8%

Remember all of those are one measurement w/ a Garmin 305. But should give a pretty good picture of the relative grades & elevation gains.

The climb I have done a bunch of times in the past few months is Gorge Road, from River Rd in Edgewater up to Fairview. That one rises 180 feet at 7% avg grade, from the bottom up to Walker St, where it gradually becomes less steep.
If you turn left at Walker St, the climb totals 227 feet @ 8.4% before it starts leveling off.


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## Ken Roberts

Thanks for posting all those GPS measurements for different climbs. Measuring steepness of roads is tricky, so I say the more the better -- especially when you say _how_ you measured it.
Here's 
my list for Bergen + Hudson counties

My number sometimes look different from yours for the same hill. Sometimes that's because I tried to focus more on the steepest section, while you took more the whole hill. Or it might be that I used topo software instead of a GPS. (Does the Garmin 305 have a barometric altimeter? Sometimes that makes a big difference).

Anyway the important thing is how the hill feels when you _ride_ up it.

Ken


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## sullivab

Here's a little more on how I came up with my numbers.

The Garmin 305 does have a barometric altimeter, which seems pretty accurate. 
I used the application Ascent to analyze the data from the Garmin. 

For my measurement of Elm, the part I included starts just before Shetland Lane, and goes to just before Oakwood Lane. That segment comes out to a 114-foot rise @ 15.2%. The yellow dot on the map shows where I bailed.

Ken, I'm guessing when deciding on what to include in your steep section of Elm, you left out the lower part I included around Shetland that's more like 8% - before the grade starts kicking up. 

Next time I'm up by Elm I'll be sure to get the whole hill (riding, or ride/walk). From the pic, you can see when I bailed I was turning over 30 rpm in my lowest gear (39 x 26). It may be a while before I'm strong enough to ride all the way up...


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## Ken Roberts

sullivab said:


> I'm guessing when deciding on what to include in your steep section of Elm, you left out the lower part I included around Shetland that's more like 8% - before the grade starts kicking up.


That sounds right.
I sorta remember that I did use my GPS, not just topo software.
Maybe once I _walked_ up it with my GPS.

Ken


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