# "Contador rips Armstrong"



## iliveonnitro (Feb 19, 2006)

http://tour-de-france.velonews.com/article/96109/contador-rips-armstrong

Maybe this is why Lance didn't go to the dinner? Apparently, tension was a lot higher than they made it out to be in the actual Tour.


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## jptaylorsg (Apr 24, 2003)

Interesting the "I have never had admiration for him" comment. This is directly contradictory to what he said during the race about Lance being his idol.

Either it's a sharp about-face because of hurt feelings or there's some "lost-in-translation" going on here.


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## gegarrenton (Jul 10, 2009)

I think a bit of both


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## waldo425 (Sep 22, 2008)

jptaylorsg said:


> Interesting the "I have never had admiration for him" comment. This is directly contradictory to what he said during the race about Lance being his idol.
> 
> Either it's a sharp about-face because of hurt feelings or there's some "lost-in-translation" going on here.


Sounds like PR crap and a TV spot to me. I didn't really believe it when I heard that comment on VS. I'm not too surprised that comments like this are coming out now. I could kind of see that there was a lot more going on when the cameras were not on them.


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## llama31 (Jan 13, 2006)

"As the World Turns - Astana Edition"

Sheesh the soap opera continues


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## AJL (Jul 9, 2009)

llama31 said:


> "As the World Turns - Astana Edition"
> 
> Sheesh the soap opera continues


Well, this is one soap opera that we already know is ending :crazy:


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## baker921 (Jul 20, 2007)

AJL said:


> Well, this is one soap opera that we already know is ending :crazy:


The sooner the better for me.

But on reflection I'd probably say the same about ALL soap operas. Am I becoming a hater?


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## tjjm36m3 (Mar 4, 2008)

I have never read so much biased reading than from cyclingnews and velonews favoring one American against a Spaniard. Regardless of who's right or wrong in the astana drama, these two sites always publish a positive tone on the side of the american. Well, guess americans are the primarily readers on these sites. I'm sure somewhere over in Spain they are bashing the american in their newspapers too.


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## Len J (Jan 28, 2004)

http://www.cyclingnews.com/features/putting-contadors-yellow-in-context-2

Here is a little more balanced perspective. from Cyclingnews.

Len


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## Circlip (Jul 26, 2005)

Nice article at cyclingnews. Makes the Velonews coverage look like it was done by amateur hacks in a celebrity tabloid.



Len J said:


> http://www.cyclingnews.com/features/putting-contadors-yellow-in-context-2
> 
> Here is a little more balanced perspective. from Cyclingnews.


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## ping771 (Apr 10, 2006)

Guys, Contador's tame comments from cyclingnews you're referring are prior to the comments he made to a Spanish press conference he gave where he blasted Armstrong.

From velonews:

"My relationship with Lance is non-existent. Even if he is a great champion, I have never had admiration for him and I never will," the Spaniard told a news conference in Madrid. (This conference happened today, Monday, not Sunday, which is when Contador made the prior statements published on cyclingnews.)

In any event, cyclingnews' Sunday article reveals that Contador was upset that Lance joined Astana. The article states: 

"When Lance Armstrong announced his return, I still had a contract [until the end of 2010]. I had no other possibilities, and my current team was the strongest for the Grand Tours," he said, explaining why leaving wasn't really an option.

"Circumstances built up against me but rather than worry about them, I used them as an additional stimulus. Lance wanted to do well in the general classification, but competition does not tolerate two winners."

I'm not saying there's a drama, but let's face it, Lance and Contador, as team leaders on the samee team, don't care much for each other, and played nice for as long they could during the TDF, and now since it's over, they can let their tongues wag. I don't think Velonews was that far off in Contador's translation to make it sound like Contador was insulting Armstrong. He in fact was taking a stab at Armstrong. What you guys are sayin is that Velonews completely got the intent of Contador's words wrong, which I don't think happened here.


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## Spunout (Aug 12, 2002)

Well, he won. Good on him for making the comments, if they are true and reflected the situation. I've said in other threads that JB didn't control this early enough and get behind the one leader. He probably feels let down, and should be.


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## cheddarlove (Oct 17, 2005)

I agree with spunout. I suspect as time goes forward we will hear more and more about what happened on the team. Contador will talk and LA and JB will shoot down whatever he says.
Those two are great at 'spin'. I suspect there was an incredible amount of bullying going on towards Contador and he refused to be intimadated!
Maybe Lance wasn't invited to the celebration dinner!


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## albert owen (Jul 7, 2008)

Like I've said - Contador won in spite of Astana. 
He's made his point and against a Levi-less Armstrong it proved to be pretty easy.


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## Maximus_XXIV (Nov 10, 2008)

Lance was bashing AC all the time during the race. AC waited for the Tour to finish before responding. Good for him Stay focused on team goals (yellow) rather than infighting.


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## MerlinAma (Oct 11, 2005)

ping771 said:


> ......... comments he made to a Spanish press conference .........
> ......... He in fact was taking a stab at Armstrong. ...........


Playin' to the home crowd!


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## rocco (Apr 30, 2005)

jptaylorsg said:


> Interesting the "I have never had admiration for him" comment. This is directly contradictory to what he said during the race about Lance being his idol.
> 
> Either it's a sharp about-face because of hurt feelings or there's some "lost-in-translation" going on here.



Contador said he read and took inspiration from Armstrong's book when he was recovering from his aneurysm. How could he be inspired by the book and respect the author? I think one way or another he's not being honest.


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## mike6108 (Jun 12, 2004)

jptaylorsg said:


> Either it's a sharp about-face because of hurt feelings or there's some "lost-in-translation" going on here.


So I looked at the quote in the Madrid newspaper "El Pais," and although I don't profess to be an expert in Spanish-English translations, I do believe Contador's words were skewed to make the story more newsworthy in the Velonews piece.

Here is the original quote in El Pais: _"Mi relación con Lance Armstrong es nula, pero es un grandísimo corredor y ha hecho un gran Tour, otra cosa es a nivel personal donde nunca le he tenido una gran admiración, ni se la tendré."_

Here is the tranlsation in Velonews: _"My relationship with Lance is non-existent. Even if he is a great champion, I have never had admiration for him and I never will."_

Here is my attempt at a translation: "My relationship with Lance Armstrong is non-existent, but he is a very great racer and completed a great Tour. Another thing though is at a personal level, where I have never held great admiration for him and I never will."

IMO, there's a pretty big difference between the way Velonews translated the article vs. what I believe is a more accurate representation of what he said. Maybe one of our bilingual board members can chime in, but I don't find AC's comment as spiteful as initially reported.


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## ping771 (Apr 10, 2006)

Well part of the point of all this is that many posters in RBR throughout the TDF said there was little to no tension between the two and that it was made up by the press to build excitement/drama. There was a lot of tension, except that it was not explicitly stated, but occasionally you would see glimpses of it in veiled statements. There's a world of difference between no/little tension and reserved statements. 

We'll probably never know the real reasons why the two never got along, short of either Lance or Contador stating from their own mouth why they don't care of each other. Bruyneel said the two never clicked, but then again, you know what side he's on.


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## rocco (Apr 30, 2005)

Maximus_XXIV said:


> Lance was bashing AC all the time during the race. AC waited for the Tour to finish before responding. Good for him Stay focused on team goals (yellow) rather than infighting.



"Bashing" during the race? Examples?


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## wipeout (Jun 6, 2005)

Maximus_XXIV said:


> Lance was bashing AC all the time during the race. AC waited for the Tour to finish before responding. Good for him Stay focused on team goals (yellow) rather than infighting.


Really? When did Armstrong "bash" Contidor during the TdF? I must have missed it, or you imagined it...


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## rt1965 (Mar 9, 2009)

I doubt JB would do this, but can he hold AC to his contract and just simply hold him out of the TDF team next year? Seems to me that AC should be a little more concerned about getting out of the contract before he shares his feelings. Not saying he doesn't have a beef, but it just seems like the more professional thing to do.


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## squadra (May 20, 2009)

Two Alpha males with raised hackles, circling, circling...
However, Alberto is showing his lack of maturity, as a GT cyclist. There is more to it than just being a phenomenal talent.
Alberto had a very lucky tour in many respects; he was on the strongest team, had no mechanicals or bad days, and whether they get along or not, i would wager that LA would have been right there to help Contador if something had happened if it had just been the two of them against others. As it was, he won the tour without too much work by his team, but it could have been very, very different.
Moving right along, Contador would do well to just stay mum on the whole AC vs LA thing.
Lance is in a position to build an Uber Team, that, if he gets p!ssed off enough at Contador, would have two objectives at the 2010 TDF:
Win it and/or keep AC from winning.
Pi$$y yes, but LA likes to be in control.


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## JohnHemlock (Jul 15, 2006)

Don't know and don't care. I am just pleased that I got to watch two great champions, one at the height of his powers and one still among the best at 37. I will remember the way they flew up Ventoux far longer than I will remember petty fishwrap sniping.


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## jptaylorsg (Apr 24, 2003)

rt1965 said:


> I doubt JB would do this, but can he hold AC to his contract and just simply hold him out of the TDF team next year? Seems to me that AC should be a little more concerned about getting out of the contract before he shares his feelings. Not saying he doesn't have a beef, but it just seems like the more professional thing to do.


Without knowing any of the details of the contract, most pro sports contracts have buy-out clauses for the athletes, and even if it doesn't, I doubt Bruyneel is invested enough in this p!ssing match to pay Contador not to ride out of spite for the fact that AC whooped his buddy Lance.

ESPN had an interview with Lance where he basically said that he and Contador are both very competitive, and that they knew all along that it would be a tense and unpleasant experience. he gave Bruyneel credit for managing it and keeping the team together throughout, which did happen in spite of these guys' inner-team competition. 

Again, speculating here, but my read on this is that Lance wanted to come back but only if he was allowed to compete for team leader, all agreed that it would be a tense situation within the team, Bruyneel said, "OK, we'll deal with it," and Contador said "I think it sux, and you're a jerk, but what can I do but go win the race (and maybe pout just a little bit)?"


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## Francis Cebedo (Aug 1, 2001)

Oh it's ON now.

"Get the popcorn ready honey!"

fc


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## pretender (Sep 18, 2007)

Lance posted at least a couple tweets during the Tour that were very thinly veiled criticisms of Contador's actions. For example, "Getting lots of question why AC attacked and dropped Kloden. I still haven't figured it out either. Oh well."

Sort of passive-aggressive in my book, but other people might interpret it differently.


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## qsoundrich (Nov 16, 2006)

Bruyneel, the mastermind, figured out how to bring Lance back AND still win the tour. I don't understand why there should be any conflict here. Contador destroyed everyone on the climbs and the TTs. Lance was merely in the next tier but on the best team. It's a shame Levi wasn't around to possibly give AC some competition.


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## zosocane (Aug 29, 2004)

*Must Watch*

I didn't see this video clip at all in the Versus coverage. Open the link and then play the video. The voice-over is in Italian but the words are irrelevant. Go to 0:27 and watch the body language the way Lance shakes Conti's hand (and the lack of eye-contact) versus Lance shaking Andy's hand, the arm clasp, the the eye contact.

If not for the same Astana logo on their jerseys you wouldn't think they're even teammates.

http://www.gazzetta.it/Ciclismo/27-07-2009/stampa-usa-esalta-lance-50876406580.shtml


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## ping771 (Apr 10, 2006)

mike6108 said:


> So I looked at the quote in the Madrid newspaper "El Pais," and although I don't profess to be an expert in Spanish-English translations, I do believe Contador's words were skewed to make the story more newsworthy in the Velonews piece.
> 
> Here is the original quote in El Pais: _"Mi relación con Lance Armstrong es nula, pero es un grandísimo corredor y ha hecho un gran Tour, otra cosa es a nivel personal donde nunca le he tenido una gran admiración, ni se la tendré."_
> 
> ...


Your translation, "Another thing though is at a personal level, where I have never held great admiration for him and I never will." explicitly says what Velonews said. That is the most convincing proof of what Contador thinks of Lance. That is not subtle at all, and in that regard there is no difference. That statement speaks for itself and cannot be misconstrued or taken out of context. It needs no context.


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## jptaylorsg (Apr 24, 2003)

fornaca68 said:


> I didn't see this video clip at all in the Versus coverage. Open the link and then play the video. The voice-over is in Italian but the words are irrelevant. Go to 0:27 and watch the body language the way Lance shakes Conti's hand (and the lack of eye-contact) versus Lance shaking Andy's hand, the arm clasp, the the eye contact.
> 
> If not for the same Astana logo on their jerseys you wouldn't think they're even teammates.
> 
> http://www.gazzetta.it/Ciclismo/27-07-2009/stampa-usa-esalta-lance-50876406580.shtml


Nice.
Looked like John McEnroe shaking the head judge's hand after one of his battles with Borg at Wimbledon.


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## OldEndicottHiway (Jul 16, 2007)

Well, all I can say is...big surprise. Like I've said before a couple of times...two bulls in a locked room = not pretty. 


And all I know is...I'd better find a way to make it to France next year. Should be a humdinger.


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## FondriestFan (May 19, 2005)

It doesn't surprise me that Contador proved to be Lance's physical superior. What does surprise me is that Contador beat Lance psychologically as well.


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## kef3844 (May 30, 2008)

qsoundrich said:


> It's a shame Levi wasn't around to possibly give AC some competition.


Your kidding right??????


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## JohnHemlock (Jul 15, 2006)

FondriestFan said:


> It doesn't surprise me that Contador proved to be Lance's physical superior. What does surprise me is that Contador beat Lance psychologically as well.


hmmm, explain. Didn't really notice he was running any psyops.


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## FondriestFan (May 19, 2005)

JohnHemlock said:


> hmmm, explain. Didn't really notice he was running any psyops.


He wasn't. Honestly, I think that's the whole point. Contador kept his mouth shut until the end of the race. Lance kept taking little pock shots that did not nothing.

The whole thing with Contador being left at the hotel without a ride before the TT in Annecy is disgraceful.


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## mike6108 (Jun 12, 2004)

ping771 said:


> Your translation, "Another thing though is at a personal level, where I have never held great admiration for him and I never will." explicitly says what Velonews said. That is the most convincing proof of what Contador thinks of Lance. That is not subtle at all, and in that regard there is no difference. That statement speaks for itself and cannot be misconstrued or taken out of context. It needs no context.


I disagree and believe there is a difference, so maybe we'll just have to agree to disagree. One can admire a person's achievements without admiring that person as an individual.

The Spanish quotation implies just that. AC respects LA's achievements as a great rider but does not care for LA on a personal level.

The Velonews quotation is different in two ways:

1) It quotes AC as saying: "Even _if_ he is a great champion..." As if AC is suggesting some doubt on whether LA is a great champion. Obviously he is, and in the Spanish text, AC says so: "...but he is a very great racer..."

2) It omits the "at a personal level" statement, which IMO, separates the admiration he has (or doesn't have in this case) for LA the man vs. that of his accomplishments as a rider. By omitting that phrase, it leaves open to interpretation that he doesn't even admire LA's achievements as a cyclist.

FWIW, I'm a fan of both LA and AC. I was truly amazed by what LA was able to accomplish in this year's Tour and rooted for him throughout the event. Just wish he had shown a greater sense of appreciation for his own ride and that of his teammate when he stood atop the podium. To my eyes, his demeanor suggested he didn't want to be there, which I felt was disrespectful to AC, AS, the 177 other riders who were not on the podium, and to the fans of the Tour. But what do I know...


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## OldEndicottHiway (Jul 16, 2007)

JohnHemlock said:


> Don't know and don't care. I am just pleased that I got to watch two great champions, one at the height of his powers and one still among the best at 37. I will remember the way they flew up Ventoux far longer than I will remember petty fishwrap sniping.



Well stated. Thanks for posting.


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## dave_gt (Jul 25, 2008)

Ahhh...the impetuousness of youth...the young and stupid. A true professional with class would not utter such crap as Contador does so often. He can't even figure out when to eat, what to do for the team manager or even how treat his teammates with respect. He is so full of himself and a lot of brown excrement.:cryin: 

Be glad when this AC/LA drama is put to rest...at least til next TdF....


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## gregario (Nov 19, 2001)

rocco said:


> Contador said he read and took inspiration from Armstrong's book when he was recovering from his aneurysm. How could he be inspired by the book and respect the author? I think one way or another he's not being honest.


Maybe he got to know him and changed his mind....


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## JohnHemlock (Jul 15, 2006)

FondriestFan said:


> He wasn't. Lance kept taking little pock shots that did not nothing.
> 
> The whole thing with Contador being left at the hotel without a ride before the TT in Annecy is disgraceful.


Yeah, Twitter needs to be used only to tell us what you had for breakfast or what you and Matthew McConaughey did last night.


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## varian72 (Jul 18, 2006)

FondriestFan said:


> He wasn't. Honestly, I think that's the whole point. Contador kept his mouth shut until the end of the race. Lance kept taking little pock shots that did not nothing.
> 
> The whole thing with Contador being left at the hotel without a ride before the TT in Annecy is disgraceful.


Did not read this.....where is the article/tweet, etc?


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## ping771 (Apr 10, 2006)

mike6108 said:


> I disagree and believe there is a difference, so maybe we'll just have to agree to disagree. One can admire a person's achievements without admiring that person as an individual.
> 
> The Spanish quotation implies just that. AC respects LA's achievements as a great rider but does not care for LA on a personal level.
> 
> ...


I don't disagree with you, but my point is that he said, as you've said, that Contador personally does not admire Lance, which, any way you cut it, is an insult to Lance. I'm not on Lance's side, but anyway you read it it is an insult. It's like some saying to you about your significant other "People say your wife/husband is really a successful person, but I don't like him" That's an insult, and not just to you but to a third person hearing the conversation.


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## Fredke (Dec 10, 2004)

dave_gt said:


> Ahhh...the impetuousness of youth...the young and stupid. A true professional with class would not utter such crap as Contador does so often.


A true professional does what he's paid for, which for a team captain means winning bike races. So long as Contador's legs can answer to his mouth, he can be a drama queen without worrying about employment. 

It's amusing to see how differently all this all looks to Lance supporters than when Lance was trashing Sastre and VdV in the media last year.


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## Tschai (Jun 19, 2003)

ping771 said:


> Your translation, "Another thing though is at a personal level, where I have never held great admiration for him and I never will." explicitly says what Velonews said. That is the most convincing proof of what Contador thinks of Lance. That is not subtle at all, and in that regard there is no difference. That statement speaks for itself and cannot be misconstrued or taken out of context. It needs no context.



Are you Fing kidding me!!!! The difference between the two translations is huge. The second translation distinguishes between Contador's opinion of Lance as a rider/champion and as a person. The first one does not.


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## FondriestFan (May 19, 2005)

varian72 said:


> Did not read this.....where is the article/tweet, etc?


It's in Spanish.

http://www.diariosur.es/20090727/deportes/ciclismo/fiesta-privada-contador-20090727.html


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## AJL (Jul 9, 2009)

pretender said:


> Lance posted at least a couple tweets during the Tour that were very thinly veiled criticisms of Contador's actions. For example, "Getting lots of question why AC attacked and dropped Kloden. I still haven't figured it out either. Oh well."
> 
> Sort of passive-aggressive in my book, but other people might interpret it differently.


Exactly what I thought. Though I don't know if you'd call it passive-aggressive when it's actually a well thought out mind game. Contador was not affected by LA's jabs at all (maybe he just didn't listening to them!).

One thing I did notice is that there was a point on AC's *Arcalis* escape where his face went slack and and he got back on the saddle and just finished out the climb. I wonder if Johan was screaming into his earpiece to slow down because he didn't want the team to have the burden of the Yellow Jersey for the rest of the tour. In any case, after that Armstrong knew who was the strongest.


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## Tschai (Jun 19, 2003)

gregario said:


> Maybe he got to know him and changed his mind....


Yep and also maybe Lance tried to take over his team and manager.


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## FondriestFan (May 19, 2005)

Tschai said:


> Are you Fing kidding me!!!! The difference between the two translations is huge. The second translation distinguishes between Contador's opinion of Lance as a rider/champion and as a person. The first one does not.


Agreed. There's a big difference between the translations.


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## ping771 (Apr 10, 2006)

Tschai said:


> Are you Fing kidding me!!!! The difference between the two translations is huge. The second translation distinguishes between Contador's opinion of Lance as a rider/champion and as a person. The first one does not.


I know there's a difference, so isn't it an insult either way? If I say you're a great rider, but I just don't like you, that's an insult. I am not insulting your riding ability, I am insulting you personally. My whole point from the beginning is whatever Contador was insulting, whether it was Armstrong's personality, reputation, or riding ability, it was an insult. In fact, insulting someone personally (who they are as a person) is worse than insulting their cycling career, don't you think?


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## zosocane (Aug 29, 2004)

FondriestFan said:


> It's in Spanish.
> 
> http://www.diariosur.es/20090727/deportes/ciclismo/fiesta-privada-contador-20090727.html


Interesting read -- supposing it's true. That would explain what Conti meant by the "hotel" being the most difficult moment of the Tour. 

The language barrier between the two men didn't help. They clearly didn't communicate very much, if at all, this season, which is a shame.


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## Snakebitten (Jun 26, 2008)

Fredke said:


> A true professional does what he's paid for, which for a team captain means winning bike races. *So long as Contador's legs can answer to his mouth, he can be a drama queen without worrying about employment.*
> 
> It's amusing to see how differently all this all looks to Lance supporters than when Lance was trashing Sastre and VdV in the media last year.


Lance's legs answered what he said about last years TDF and Sastre and VDV sooooooo 

Anyway I always said the truth will come out soon as the TDF ended. Lets not miss the point that both these men are consumate professionals as they both put there differences aside to the best of there ability to get 2 podiums for there team. 

I think AC acted his age given the circumstances which appear to be not the best for him and not what he signed up for initially. Regardless it was a sucessful tour and Astana loomed over every other team save for Saxo Bank. I cant wait to see them compete against each other again lol but on different teams. Im a fan of both for different reasons and Im not surprised two big dogs had a fight and cant reside in the same kennel. I dont think ill of either of them. It just didnt work out. Move on.


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## Snakebitten (Jun 26, 2008)

fornaca68 said:


> Interesting read -- supposing it's true. That would explain what Conti meant by the "hotel" being the most difficult moment of the Tour.
> 
> The language barrier between the two men didn't help. They clearly didn't communicate very much, if at all, this season, which is a shame.



Hmm. I translated that page using google and it says that Armstrong took the car and left AC in flip flops at the hotel with the TT already started. He had to call his brother Fran to pick him up in a private car and take him to Annecy. If this is an accurate translation that sucks. Wow


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## mike6108 (Jun 12, 2004)

ping771 said:


> I don't disagree with you, but my point is that he said, as you've said, that Contador personally does not admire Lance, which, any way you cut it, is an insult to Lance. I'm not on Lance's side, but anyway you read it it is an insult. It's like some saying to you about your significant other "People say your wife/husband is really a successful person, but I don't like him" That's an insult, and not just to you but to a third person hearing the conversation.


I agree with you there; it was insulting, but probably did not come as a surprise to LA. In a similar vein, I thought LA's skipping of the Astana team celebratory dinner and his ambivalence on the podium were insulting to AC.

What I was trying to point out was that I didn't like the way the Velonews article left open or hinted at the fact that AC may not have had any respect or admiration for LA's cycling achievements, which I think is simply false.

Should make for a fun tour next year! :ihih:


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## dno (Jul 15, 2005)

removed double post or Armstrong's latest tweets


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## rt1965 (Mar 9, 2009)

This just in from Lance via Twitter, "Seeing these comments from AC. If I were him I'd drop this drivel and start thanking his team. w/o them, he doesn't win." 

And then this, "hey pistolero, there is no "i" in "team". what did i say in March? Lots to learn. Restated."

Next year's tour should prove to be pretty exciting! As someone said earlier, Lance's team will have two goals in mind, either win the tour, or keep AC off the podium.


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## FondriestFan (May 19, 2005)

dno said:


> Lance's two latest tweets - pretty funny:
> 
> 
> lancearmstrong: Seeing these comments from AC. If I were him I'd drop this drivel and start thanking his team. w/o them, he doesn't win.
> ...


These Tweets are funny. Lance is taking it pretty hard. I'm sure trying to sleep with Contador's Sidis firmly embedded in his @ss isn't helping matters.


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## California L33 (Jan 20, 2006)

jptaylorsg said:


> Without knowing any of the details of the contract, most pro sports contracts have buy-out clauses for the athletes, and even if it doesn't, I doubt Bruyneel is invested enough in this p!ssing match to pay Contador not to ride out of spite for the fact that AC whooped his buddy Lance.
> 
> ESPN had an interview with Lance where he basically said that he and Contador are both very competitive, and that they knew all along that it would be a tense and unpleasant experience. he gave Bruyneel credit for managing it and keeping the team together throughout, which did happen in spite of these guys' inner-team competition.
> 
> Again, speculating here, but my read on this is that Lance wanted to come back but only if he was allowed to compete for team leader, all agreed that it would be a tense situation within the team, Bruyneel said, "OK, we'll deal with it," and Contador said "I think it sux, and you're a jerk, but what can I do but go win the race (and maybe pout just a little bit)?"


Lance should buy the contract and put AC on the bench  "Alberto, your new job is polishing the bikes."


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## adimiro (Jun 28, 2007)

Snakebitten said:


> Hmm. I translated that page using google and it says that Armstrong took the car and left AC in flip flops at the hotel with the TT already started. He had to call his brother Fran to pick him up in a private car and take him to Annecy. If this is an accurate translation that sucks. Wow



The article also describes that the team car was missing because Armstrong ordered it to pick up his wife, kids, and friends at the airport...what a nice team mate.


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## Maximus_XXIV (Nov 10, 2008)

rt1965 said:


> This just in from Lance via Twitter, "Seeing these comments from AC. If I were him I'd drop this drivel and start thanking his team. w/o them, he doesn't win."
> 
> And then this, "hey pistolero, there is no "i" in "team". what did i say in March? Lots to learn. Restated."
> 
> Next year's tour should prove to be pretty exciting! As someone said earlier, Lance's team will have two goals in mind, either win the tour, or keep AC off the podium.


Wouldn't class dictate that he does not respond to it at all. Passive aggressive the whole Tour.


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## ping771 (Apr 10, 2006)

rt1965 said:


> This just in from Lance via Twitter, "Seeing these comments from AC. If I were him I'd drop this drivel and start thanking his team. w/o them, he doesn't win."
> 
> And then this, "hey pistolero, there is no "i" in "team". what did i say in March? Lots to learn. Restated."
> 
> Next year's tour should prove to be pretty exciting! As someone said earlier, Lance's team will have two goals in mind, either win the tour, or keep AC off the podium.


Shiiiiiiiyite! Them's is fightin' words!

Btw, what's going on for the rest of the season then. Is Alberto or Lance doing the Vuelta? I can't imagine both of them riding together now in any race. What's both of their schedules for the remainder of the season?


----------



## Salsa_Lover (Jul 6, 2008)

Snakebitten said:


> Hmm. I translated that page using google and it says that Armstrong took the car and left AC in flip flops at the hotel with the TT already started. He had to call his brother Fran to pick him up in a private car and take him to Annecy. If this is an accurate translation that sucks. Wow


Yes it is accurate.

The article follows describing the tense relationshio between them two and the sarcasms that Armstrong made about him and that Contador didn't answered at the hotel. he did it on the road. Also how wanted to sit on the place that Contador normally seated on the bus etc..

Describes how this tour Contador had to win it without the team, because the team and his director was set up to make LA win, so Contador had to win it, attacking when it was not planned, on the Alps where LA expected just to control the race and alone at the TT.


----------



## den bakker (Nov 13, 2004)

ping771 said:


> Shiiiiiiiyite! Them's is fighitin' words!
> 
> Btw, what's going on for the rest of the season then. Is Alberto or Lance doing the Vuelta? I can't imagine both of them riding together now in any race. What's both of their schedules for the remainder of the season?


does Lance even know the year goes further than july?


----------



## ping771 (Apr 10, 2006)

den bakker said:


> does Lance even know the year goes further than july?



Den Bakker,

Your avatar is absolutely breathtaking....literally. I am amazed, perplexed, and in some strange way, mildly attracted to it. 

All that jelly and no toast.


----------



## qsoundrich (Nov 16, 2006)

Why doesn't Alberto come up to Leadville and the two can have at it w/o any team tactics nonsense.


----------



## rt1965 (Mar 9, 2009)

ping771 said:


> Shiiiiiiiyite! Them's is fightin' words!
> 
> Btw, what's going on for the rest of the season then. Is Alberto or Lance doing the Vuelta? I can't imagine both of them riding together now in any race. What's both of their schedules for the remainder of the season?


Well according to Vino, he's the new team leader, so I guess he'll be riding the Vuelta by himself! Seriously though, can the new Radio Shack team be put together sooner and can they ride any of the pro races left this season by invitation at this point? Sounds like they can't get a license until next season anyway.

Or, does Astana stay intact for the rest of the season? Has JB given an actual date as to his departure?


----------



## den bakker (Nov 13, 2004)

qsoundrich said:


> Why doesn't Alberto come up to Leadville and the two can have at it w/o any team tactics nonsense.


or duke it out in the race that _really_ matters. Nevada city classic. Not all that national time trial BS when there's a big boys race around


----------



## Snakebitten (Jun 26, 2008)

Salsa_Lover said:


> Yes it is accurate.
> 
> The article follows describing the tense relationshio between them two and the sarcasms that Armstrong made about him and that Contador didn't answered at the hotel. he did it on the road. Also how wanted to sit on the place that Contador normally seated on the bus etc..
> 
> Describes how this tour Contador had to win it without the team, because the team and his director was set up to make LA win, so Contador had to win it, attacking when it was not planned, on the Alps where LA expected just to control the race and alone at the TT.


I really want to hear LA side of this too but if this is true I dont like it one bit. If true he was trying to break the kid mentally. Two side to a story though and Horner and Levi said AC didnt follow team tactics. If they kid felt setup for failure I could completely understand his "weird" anti team decissions then. I wonder if we will ever know the whole truth. Sometimes the truth lies somewere in between. Oh what drama. Its a miracle Astana 1 & 3. Or some might say position 3 as position 1 wasnt ever in question for me after Verbier.


----------



## ping771 (Apr 10, 2006)

rt1965 said:


> Well according to Vino, he's the new team leader, so I guess he'll be riding the Vuelta by himself! Seriously though, can the new Radio Shack team be put together sooner and can they ride any of the pro races left this season by invitation at this point? Sounds like they can't get a license until next season anyway.
> 
> Or, does Astana stay intact for the rest of the season? Has JB given an actual date as to his departure?


Oh yeah, forgot about that Ivan Drago looking dude (er, see Rocky IV). Astana is one messed up team now.


----------



## den bakker (Nov 13, 2004)

Snakebitten said:


> I really want to hear LA side of this too but if this is true I dont like it one bit. If true he was trying to break the kid mentally. Two side to a story though and Horner and Levi said AC didnt follow team tactics. If they kid felt setup for failure I could completely understand his "weird" anti team decissions then. I wonder if we will ever know the whole truth. Sometimes the truth lies somewere in between. Oh what drama. Its a miracle Astana 1 & 3. Or some might say position 3 as position 1 wasnt ever in question for me after Verbier.


Where were Horner and Leipheimer when Kloeden could not hang? How would they know about the team tactics? telecons?


----------



## Italophile (Jun 11, 2004)

Superfluous in the light of a superior post below by Mike6108.


----------



## OldEndicottHiway (Jul 16, 2007)

ping771 said:


> Den Bakker,
> 
> Your avatar is absolutely breathtaking....literally. *I am amazed, perplexed, and in some strange way, mildly attracted to it*.
> 
> All that jelly and no toast.



It is fascinating, isn't it.


----------



## Italophile (Jun 11, 2004)

Len J said:


> http://www.cyclingnews.com/features/putting-contadors-yellow-in-context-2
> 
> Here is a little more balanced perspective. from Cyclingnews.
> 
> Len


Thanks for that, Len.

I like this part of the interview:

"I am not really concerned by records," [Contador] answered. "I just want to enjoy every year I do as a cyclist and maybe I will focus on other races too. Perhaps I will do the Giro, Classics, the Vuelta. For sure my main goal will remain the Tour de France, without forgetting some other races."

Nice to hear such interest in the whole of the cycling calendar. That's more respect than Lance Armstrong ever showed cycling during his prime.

This is my considered opinion. You are entitled to yours. rrr:


----------



## OldEndicottHiway (Jul 16, 2007)

LA wouldn't twitter this crap publicly without thinking _very_ thoroughly.

I suspect there is so much more to the story. 

For _all_ we know, they're yucking it up right now over a bottle of chianti at all the media mayhem:

"Alberto, watch this. I'm going to make everyone freak out."




Personally, I've seen enough. Now they're both p*ssing me off.


----------



## pretender (Sep 18, 2007)

Lance is not saving the world from cancer with those jealous, bitter, snarky comments from his Blackberry.


----------



## pretender (Sep 18, 2007)

OldEndicottHiway said:


> For _all_ we know, they're yucking it up right now over a bottle of chianti at all the media mayhem:
> 
> "Alberto, watch this. I'm going to make everyone freak out."


Now _that_ would be the best practical joke in history.


----------



## wipeout (Jun 6, 2005)

ping771 said:


> Den Bakker,
> 
> Your avatar is absolutely breathtaking....literally. I am amazed, perplexed, and in some strange way, mildly attracted to it.
> 
> All that jelly and no toast.


Yeah, what IS she carrying around in her pants pockets?


----------



## Snakebitten (Jun 26, 2008)

den bakker said:


> Where were Horner and Leipheimer when Kloeden could not hang? How would they know about the team tactics? telecons?


I can just taste the sarcasm. Your guess is as good as mine but I would imagine they each have the ability to call JB, Kloden, Popo etc and discuss things during or after each race dont you think? Is it that much of a stretch? Levi was on the team so Im pretty sure he would have been privy to some of the tactics and it certainly wouldnt take genius to figure out the Kloden drop wasnt a part of the plan since we heard JB live on VS saying to everyone to stay at that pace then bam. If Im wrong then so be it.


----------



## den bakker (Nov 13, 2004)

Snakebitten said:


> I can just taste the sarcasm. Your guess is as good as mine but I would imagine they each have the ability to call JB, Kloden, Popo etc and discuss things during or after each race dont you think? Is it that much of a stretch? Levi was on the team so Im pretty sure he would have been privy to some of the tactics and it certainly wouldnt take genius to figure out the Kloden drop wasnt a part of the plan since we heard JB live on VS saying to everyone to stay at that pace then bam. If Im wrong then so be it.


Is there any doubt which camp, if any, Horner and Leipheimer would be in? I doubt they would call Contador to ask what _really_ happened.


----------



## Italophile (Jun 11, 2004)

ping771 said:


> We'll probably never know the real reasons why the two never got along, short of either Lance or Contador stating from their own mouth why they don't care of each other. Bruyneel said the two never clicked, but then again, you know what side he's on.


Don't we know? I think I know. Bruyneel let Lance come in and take over the team in spite of the promised stature of Contador, then they encouraged Contador not to leave the team while planning all along to undermine him.

Or did I dream that?


----------



## Christine (Jul 23, 2005)

Could be that he's playing it up for the publicity. But if it's true about the hotel incident..... holy crap. My respect for him has plummeted.


----------



## rocco (Apr 30, 2005)

gregario said:


> Maybe he got to know him and changed his mind....



Maybe but he said "I have never had admiration for him" so one way or another he was disingenuous at the very least.


----------



## Italophile (Jun 11, 2004)

mike6108 said:


> So I looked at the quote in the Madrid newspaper "El Pais," and although I don't profess to be an expert in Spanish-English translations, I do believe Contador's words were skewed to make the story more newsworthy in the Velonews piece.
> 
> Here is my attempt at a translation: "My relationship with Lance Armstrong is non-existent, but he is a very great racer and completed a great Tour. Another thing though is at a personal level, where I have never held great admiration for him and I never will."
> 
> IMO, there's a pretty big difference between the way Velonews translated the article vs. what I believe is a more accurate representation of what he said. Maybe one of our bilingual board members can chime in, but I don't find AC's comment as spiteful as initially reported.


Thank you for that. I made a lazy attempt at clarifying the scenario, you did the leg work. :thumbsup:


----------



## OldEndicottHiway (Jul 16, 2007)

pretender said:


> Now _that_ would be the best practical joke in history.



Wouldn't it though?  



Ah well, crap. I can't "blame" either one for getting p*ssy. It's in the blood and how they're wired. It's why they win. 



Beets!


----------



## rocco (Apr 30, 2005)

Tschai said:


> Yep and also maybe Lance tried to take over his team and manager.



Really? Please explain how Contador owns Astana or how it's "his team".


----------



## Snakebitten (Jun 26, 2008)

den bakker said:


> Is there any doubt which camp, if any, Horner and Leipheimer would be in? I doubt they would call Contador to ask what _really_ happened.


Ok you obviouly didnt read my whole post and are nit picking. Like I said we will probably never know the real truth. To assume one side is at total fault with the scraps of info we are getting would be stupid. Thats why I clearly stated that the truth probably lies somewhere between what both sides are saying. I know both these racers for there racing prowess. I know less what makes each one tick, besides the hateful fanboy nonsense on both sides that Ive read the past 3 weeks. So Im remaining neutral in this issue. You want to pick a side go right on ahead. 

I can do just like you and throw out questions like: do YOU know if AC mouthed off to his team mates as younguns usually do when they dont get there way? Do you know if it was all LA's fault that the relationship didnt work out? Do you know if AC, because of the language barrier, misunderstood somethings his team mates may have said? There is way more to this than implying Lance is Satan. We can speculate but it shouldnt be confused with fact.


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## Italophile (Jun 11, 2004)

mike6108 said:


> FWIW, I'm a fan of both LA and AC. I was truly amazed by what LA was able to accomplish in this year's Tour and rooted for him throughout the event. Just wish he had shown a greater sense of appreciation for his own ride and that of his teammate when he stood atop the podium. To my eyes, his demeanor suggested he didn't want to be there, which I felt was disrespectful to AC, AS, the 177 other riders who were not on the podium, and to the fans of the Tour. But what do I know...


Thank you for that. That posture on the third step struck me, as well, and I didn't expect to see it. No prejudice, just observation.


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## Italophile (Jun 11, 2004)

Fredke said:


> It's amusing to see how differently all this all looks to Lance supporters than when Lance was trashing Sastre and VdV in the media last year.


Hello! :thumbsup:


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## Snakebitten (Jun 26, 2008)

Wow. Posture-gate lol


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## OldEndicottHiway (Jul 16, 2007)

Christine said:


> Could be that he's playing it up for the publicity. But if it's true about the hotel incident..... holy crap. My respect for him has plummeted.



At face value it's incredibly sophmoric.


I suspect...there's a lot more we don't know. Cont could've just given him the universal salute in the hallway before the incident. 


Hrrrumph. Boys.


Regardless, I also suspect that LA has a hell of a lot more respect and deference shown him within the ranks of the Pro Peleton. 

Just mah .02 worth of observation.


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## Italophile (Jun 11, 2004)

Snakebitten said:


> I think AC acted his age given the circumstances which appear to be not the best for him and not what he signed up for initially. Regardless it was a sucessful tour and Astana loomed over every other team save for Saxo Bank. I cant wait to see them compete against each other again lol but on different teams. Im a fan of both for different reasons and Im not surprised two big dogs had a fight and cant reside in the same kennel. I dont think ill of either of them. It just didnt work out. Move on.


Can I join your Common Sense Club? ...Would that be CSC?


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## albert owen (Jul 7, 2008)

Armstrong genuinely thought that he could win this tour, that's why he "came back". 
He set out to undermine Contador from Day 1. Although the team was packed with his buddies - he was/is/will be their patron - they couldn't stop Contador. 
AC proved himself to be Armstrong's mental match and physical superior.
Armstrong is desperately trying to recover his status by all this Twitter Crap, All he is doing is coming across as a bitter spoilt child who's lost his toys.

Yes - He's won 7 Tours.Yes - He rode valiantly towards the end of this Tour, BUT - All he is doing is tarnishing his own memory and reputation.............Sad.


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## Snakebitten (Jun 26, 2008)

Italophile said:


> Can I join your Common Sense Club? ...Would that be CSC?


lol....nice as long as you bring the Schlecks


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## Henry Porter (Jul 25, 2006)

pretender said:


> Now _that_ would be the best practical joke in history.


Lance is too much an ahole for this to be a joke. 

This thread is full of interesting news, is either AC or LA likely to make the Tour of Missouri?


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## Italophile (Jun 11, 2004)

qsoundrich said:


> Bruyneel, the mastermind, figured out how to bring Lance back AND still win the tour. I don't understand why there should be any conflict here. Contador destroyed everyone on the climbs and the TTs. Lance was merely in the next tier but on the best team. It's a shame Levi wasn't around to possibly give AC some competition.


No offense intended, but I really don't get any part of this. The conflict was predictable, and predicted by many of us the day Lance announced his comeback. And nobody is a bigger fan than I am of Levi, but he would have been no competition for any of the top five unless the team rode for him.


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## OldEndicottHiway (Jul 16, 2007)

albert owen said:


> Armstrong genuinely thought that he could win this tour, that's why he "came back".
> He set out to undermine Contador from Day 1. Although the team was packed with his buddies - he was/is/will be their patron - they couldn't stop Contador.
> AC proved himself to be Armstrong's mental match and physical superior.
> Armstrong is desperately trying to recover his status by all this Twitter Crap, All he is doing is coming across as a bitter spoilt child who's lost his toys.
> ...




Looking at it from the perspective of a (gulp) Lance Hater, I can see where you're getting this.

I think however, all of our speculations are at very best, seen _very_ dimly. We don't have a clue. Really.

Hold on a few months, or even weeks, and I have no doubt much will come out in the wash. 


In the meantime, f*ck it. I'm riding my bike.


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## Tschai (Jun 19, 2003)

rocco said:


> Really? Please explain how Contador owns Astana or how it's "his team".


Ok, you win. I guess he was just a domestique after winning those other minor races and he was waiting for Lance to unretire so he could carry Lance's water.


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## Wborgers (Oct 6, 2008)

This is So Tremendous- looking forward to the 2010 TDF already and this year's is only 1 day past! Tremendous!


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## OldEndicottHiway (Jul 16, 2007)

Henry Porter said:


> *Lance is too much an ahole for this to be a joke*.
> 
> This thread is full of interesting news, is either AC or LA likely to make the Tour of Missouri?




I really appreciate the A-hole competitive nature in any athlete. Even in Cont. I was also an Elway fan, total scheming bastid on the field. 

That said, I wouldn't want to cuddle up with either Cont or LA. Unless rattlesnakes are your deal...



Edit to add: on second thought, the last rattlesnake that came through my yard, I shot.


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## pedalsquares (Aug 2, 2006)

If AC had lost to LA and they had been on opposing teams, his words would have all been gracious and congratulatory. However, I can see how the reigning undisputed champion would have been put out by having to deal with a glorified domestique, as was LA.

There is no requirement to admire LA on or off the road. Personally, I think he's great. I think he did sacrifice his own performance at times for AC. But AC should have been able to expect this unconditionally from anyone on his team. It's also reasonable for any cyclist - and doubly so for someone like AC - to look at LA's record and feel that it's a bit one-dimensional. And - let's face it - LA does have a bit of a 'Bono' syndrome. Frankly, it's pretty unimaginable that they could possibly get along on a personal level at all.

IMHO, 2009 was a pretty boring TdF. If you want a good race, LA and AC absolutely should not be on the same team. OK, this year it was acceptable, because there was no reason to believe LA would be as competitive as he was. But if the purpose of the TdF is to determine who is the greatest cyclist, then there's just no excuse for them not to be head-to-head.


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## NextTime (Oct 13, 2007)

Apart from commentary on the war of words between these two (and its unbecoming of both of them) is that based on my personal observation of the tour, and from every "expert" opinion on the race, Armstrong was the one who made sacrifices for the good of the team, whereas Contador knowingly went against team orders and put in an attack that harmed his teamate and gained him absolutely nothing.

It's hard to read any more the rampant gossipy speculation on these pages. I guess I'm burned out on it.

Next year will be fun to watch.

My two cents.


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## pchrosto (Feb 12, 2008)

i have to disagree that being a champion necessarily means you have to be a jerk. there have been plenty of champions in tours past that dominated their sport yet were humble and full of class. this is something lance seems to lack.

contador showed class in my opinion by fighting his fight throughout the tour quietly and with his legs. yes he is speaking out now and explaining his actions during the tour.

i'm sure he'll end up on lance's s*** list, like other riders that have left his side. i'll always remember one of the few times lance actually worked for a teammate. tour de georgia '05 on the brasstown bald stage, lance ripped the race apart to help danielson win the overall. and then the "f*** you" look he gave floyd as he dropped him while sprinting for the line. he just doesn't seem to get over it too easy when riders go against his will. back then he could back it up, next year will be interesting.


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## jptaylorsg (Apr 24, 2003)

rt1965 said:


> And then this, "hey pistolero, there is no "i" in "team". what did i say in March? Lots to learn. Restated."


Is there an "I" in "Sorry Alberto, I know there's a race on and all, but all the team cars are at the airport picking up Lance's baby-mama."


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## M-theory (Jul 16, 2009)

pchrosto said:


> lance ripped the race apart to help danielson win the overall. and then the "f*** you" look he gave floyd as he dropped him while sprinting for the line. he just doesn't seem to get over it too easy when riders go against his will. back then he could back it up, next year will be interesting.



Yeah, it would seem that Lance himself is the 'hater'.


----------



## oarsman (Nov 6, 2005)

pchrosto said:


> i have to disagree that being a champion necessarily means you have to be a jerk. there have been plenty of champions in tours past that dominated their sport yet were humble and full of class. this is something lance seems to lack.
> 
> .


I agree with this. Winning requires, among many other things, strength, talent, hard work and an iron will. It does not require arrogance. You can be a great champion, yet still be full of humility and grace. The two are far from mutually exclusive.


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## jptaylorsg (Apr 24, 2003)

California L33 said:


> Lance should buy the contract and put AC on the bench  "Alberto, your new job is polishing the bikes."


That would certainly be the mature thing to do. And probably Lance's only hope of winning next year's Tour. How's he going to bench Andy Schleck, though?


----------



## ping771 (Apr 10, 2006)

wipeout said:


> Yeah, what IS she carrying around in her pants pockets?


I dunno, but I think it rhymes with "smellurite."


----------



## OldEndicottHiway (Jul 16, 2007)

oarsman said:


> I agree with this. Winning requires, among many other things, strength, talent, hard work and an iron will. It does not require arrogance. You can be a great champion, yet still be full of humility and grace. *The two are far from mutually exclusive*.



True, but rare. 


I personally _prefer_ to see one bring an eff-you mentality to the field, and then leave it there. It's war. "I win" isn't always nice. But it _can_ be done with example, not words. 

Hope these guys can get it right.


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## Sasquatch (Feb 3, 2004)

oarsman said:


> I agree with this. Winning requires, among many other things, strength, talent, hard work and an iron will. It does not require arrogance. You can be a great champion, yet still be full of humility and grace. The two are far from mutually exclusive.


yes, just look at Indurain.


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## jptaylorsg (Apr 24, 2003)

OldEndicottHiway said:


> True, but rare.
> 
> 
> I personally _prefer_ to see one bring an eff-you mentality to the field, and then leave it there. It's war. "I win" isn't always nice. But it _can_ be done with example, not words.
> ...


A noble goal. 

Not excusing Contador here as it isn't that hard to just shut your mouth and let the result speak, but this is pretty much the first time I know of where he's been involved in anything like this, and he's been on Discover/Astana for 2+ years and in pro cycling for longer than that. 
Lance, on the other hand, has a long history of somewhat petty feuds and bratty behavior inside and outside the peleton, and he seems to be the new stimulus in the Astana camp.
So, while it's possible Contador could "get it right" in the future and might already get it, I think Lance pretty much is who he is (not that there's anything wrong with that).


----------



## trekrider2000 (Jul 18, 2009)

Ya, I cant wait to watch next years tour. Whats up with his dorky pistol thing? He's not from Texas...Maybe its a Moor thing? Sure he has talent but it takes more than talent to be a superstar and it appears he's lacking in every other quality. It seems he's made just as many enemies as he did fans this Tour which can not be too good for a career. Im not a huge fan of either.


----------



## Sasquatch (Feb 3, 2004)

trekrider2000 said:


> Ya, I cant wait to watch next years tour. Whats up with his dorky pistol thing? He's not from Texas...Maybe its a Moor thing? Sure he has talent but it takes more than talent to be a superstar and it appears he's lacking in every other quality. It appears he's made just as many enemies as he did fans this Tour which can not be too good for a career.


i think its LAnce who's lost a lot of the hardcore cycling fans. What an ass.


----------



## OldEndicottHiway (Jul 16, 2007)

Sasquatch said:


> yes, just look at Indurain.



Or Moser, the "quiet one" and one of my all time faves. "Great Champion" no, but he was proliferative. 

To the best of my knowledge, he was and is quite well respected.


----------



## The Tedinator (Mar 12, 2004)

Press conferences, twitter attacks......cycling is becoming more like the World Wrestling Federation everyday.


----------



## trekrider2000 (Jul 18, 2009)

Sasquatch said:


> i think its LAnce who's lost a lot of the hardcore cycling fans. What an ass.



True but thats hardcore cycling fans. On the other hand Lance has a diverse group of fans and is known and admired among most of the non-cycling community so he's less likely to see any impact or at least i'd assume he wouldnt lose these fans. They both have made asses of themselves but being young and less well known AC is hurting himself and his image more, possibly even his future career.


----------



## oarsman (Nov 6, 2005)

OldEndicottHiway said:


> True, but rare.


But why is that? Just because you are a great athlete does not give you the license to be rude and disrespectful of others. Do we excuse them because they are celebrities? If we do, then that says an awful lot about our society and what we value. Sometimes these guys (and I am not limiting my comments to Armstrong here) sound like spoilt children. I am quite fed up with all this "trash talking" and insults. Much better to let your legs do the talking.

But then, I am a hopeless idealist.


----------



## OldEndicottHiway (Jul 16, 2007)

oarsman said:


> But why is that? *Just because you are a great athlete does not give you the license to be rude and disrespectful of others*. Do we excuse them because they are celebrities? If we do, then that says an awful lot about our society and what we value. Sometimes these guys (and I am not limiting my comments to Armstrong here) sound like spoilt children. I am quite fed up with all this "trash talking" and insults. Much better to let your legs do the talking.
> 
> But then, I am a hopeless idealist.



I'm right there with you. 

Do I like seeing a shitehead "on the field" yes, off the field not so much. 

You raise really good questions, though, deserving of a thread all on its own, imho.



All I can explain is this: 

Take a super gifted athlete, who at a very young age, say 14 or so, displays their obvious talent. I'll keep it short...you know the rest of the story:

At 14...all of a sudden...everybody loves you. 

You're a smart man, Oar. What happens to a 14 year old that in one aspect is, "never told no?" 



I can tell you this, in my brief "racing career" I had way more respect from people at large than I do in my current profession...saving lives (which I'm good at as well). 

I can imagine that some of these super talented youngsters are stunted in their personal growth very early on. Some never recover.


----------



## Henry Porter (Jul 25, 2006)

OldEndicottHiway said:


> I'm right there with you.
> 
> Do I like seeing a shitehead "on the field" yes, off the field not so much.
> 
> ...


I don't understand why it's okay on the field. Your character is still your character even in games.


----------



## oarsman (Nov 6, 2005)

mike6108 said:


> Here is the tranlsation in Velonews: _"My relationship with Lance is non-existent. Even if he is a great champion, I have never had admiration for him and I never will."_
> 
> Here is my attempt at a translation: "My relationship with Lance Armstrong is non-existent, but he is a very great racer and completed a great Tour. Another thing though is at a personal level, where I have never held great admiration for him and I never will."
> 
> .


Velonews has published a "corrected" translation:

_"My relationship with Lance is zero. He is a great champion and has done a great Tour, but on a personal level I have never had a great admiration for him and I never will," the Spaniard told a news conference in Madrid.
_


----------



## Maximus_XXIV (Nov 10, 2008)

What would Big Mig do?


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## oarsman (Nov 6, 2005)

Maximus_XXIV said:


> What would Big Mig do?


Concede gracefully, like he did when Riis beat him.


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## utlucky (Dec 14, 2008)

In regards to the Contador pistol salute this from bike snob nyc .
"Speaking of test-marketing, Tour de France winner Alberto Contador seems well on his way to branding his now-famous "fingerbang" victory salute:








My guess is that a hat (shown here in the "fingerbang" colorway) will be the first item from the AC collection to "drop:"1.









Then, if the public is receptive, I would expect a wide range of garments to follow, and perhaps one day the logo will become so popular that it will attain the coveted status of Polo Shirt Left Nipple Ubiquity, like the Ralph Lauren polo player, the Playboy Bunny, or the Le Tigre tigre








I only hope that in his rush to capitalize on his Tour victory by trademarking the "fingerbang" he doesn't neglect his signature "cockblock," as practiced on teammate Andreas Kloden during stage 17 to Le Grand-Bornand. In any case, Contador's win was an impressive one, and we may very well see him fingerbanging and cockblocking his way to victory for many years to come."


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## OldEndicottHiway (Jul 16, 2007)

Henry Porter said:


> I don't understand why it's okay on the field. Your character is still your character even in games.



All right Henry. I'll give you my definition of "shitehead on the field" which is not related to "character" by how I define it.


1.) No need to be all congenial with opponents. No need to be all nicey-nice. (which does not mean "unfriendly").

2.) Wiley to the core.

3.) Make a plan, and it works, much to the dismay of opponents.

4.) Not adverse to smirking at your target or giving dirty looks

5.) Knows when it's appropriate to say "F*ck you," meaning the person on the receiving end better [email protected] well deserve it. It need not be with words. 

6.) Plays by the rules, but pushes those rules within reason.

7.) Toy with your prey.


Feel free to disagree. That's how I like the game played. And, it's a game, not reality.

When it's game over, it's game over. And off the field? You'll be hard pressed to find someone who in "real life" (including outside these boards) has more integrity and "character". I have dad to thank on that one. So yes, I do believe that by that definition, it is possible to leave the game on the field.

We may have different views/opinions and I really don't have a problem with that. Still... it's good to ponder these things, I suppose.


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## OldEndicottHiway (Jul 16, 2007)

utlucky said:


> . In any case, Contador's win was an impressive one, and we may very well see him fingerbanging and cockblocking his way to victory for many years to come."



Lol.

Funny post.


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## oarsman (Nov 6, 2005)

*Actual quote from Indurain*

"I tried to follow Riis three times and the fourth time I gave up. Riis was very strong.... It's on the day when you lose the favorite that you lose the Tour. The gap with Riis is unbridgeable unless he blows. After twelve years my body just can't do it any more. It was a day which had to come"

From "the Quotable Cyclist"

That was in 1996. Indurain was 32.


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## OldEndicottHiway (Jul 16, 2007)

oarsman said:


> "I tried to follow Riis three times and the fourth time I gave up. Riis was very strong.... It's on the day when you lose the favorite that you lose the Tour. The gap with Riis is unbridgeable unless he blows. After twelve years my body just can't do it any more. It was a day which had to come"
> 
> From "the Quotable Cyclist"
> 
> That was in 1996. Indurain was 32.



Aaannnd...LA saying at a press conference a day ago that he wouldn't have been able to beat Cont in even some of his (LA's) stronger years isn't along similar lines? 

Granted, I'm with you and others here, even though he may have a legit beef with Cont, Twitter was not the best choice of venue for a p*ssing match, imho. Someone here said Twitter is about what you have for breakfast, and I tend to agree. Cont threw some pretty harsh words, and I don't blame him for getting uppity, but... on Twitter? 

Ugh. What a mess. Agreed?


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## Sasquatch (Feb 3, 2004)

The Tedinator said:


> Press conferences, twitter attacks......cycling is becoming more like the World Wrestling Federation everyday.


I gotta agree with you on that. Makes things a bit interesting though, but for how long? I dunno.


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## g29er (Mar 28, 2009)

As a fan of LA I feel disappointed in him for the way he handled himself. 

Lance knew at Arcalis that he was going to get beat by AC. Right then and there he should have decided to help AC instead of just saying he was going to.
I never saw LA help AC at all. You have to be able to set a pace in order to help your team leader and LA wasn't even able to do that. AC knew that he wasnt going to get support, so he went for it. 

I think that AC did a good job on just focusing on the Tour and keeping his mouth shut. Lance did a really job at pointing out AC's mistakes. Lance thought that he could win the Tour by tactics alone, that's not enough, you also have to be strong as well. Catching a break in the peloton is not going to get you a Tour win. 

So what if AC didnt go according to the "plan." Lance, on many occasions has admitted that he made dangerous moves in the past,like attacking too early and it could have bit him in the arse. 

So,I dont blame AC for lashing out at all. After all he was the better rider,and I could understand his frustration. Feeling alienated by your own team is probably not a good feeling. 

At least AC helped drag LA up Ventoux, which is alot more than LA did for AC the entire tour.


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## lancezneighbor (May 4, 2002)

FondriestFan said:


> He wasn't. Honestly, I think that's the whole point. Contador kept his mouth shut until the end of the race. Lance kept taking little pock shots that did not nothing.
> 
> The whole thing with Contador being left at the hotel without a ride before the TT in Annecy is disgraceful.


Whoa! What happened with the TT? I hadn't heard about that. Any links available? That is disgraceful!


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## g29er (Mar 28, 2009)

lancezneighbor said:


> Whoa! What happened with the TT? I hadn't heard about that. Any links available? That is disgraceful!



The only thing I found was a link that someone posted in another forum that they translated from a Spanish website.

Interesting stuff.

http://forum.slowtwitch.com/Slowtwitch_Forums_C1/Triathlon_Forum_F1/Armstrong/Contador_-_talk_amongst_yourselves.._P2432652/


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## Sasquatch (Feb 3, 2004)

now even JB is in on it:

RTjohanbruyneel Sometimes it is better to be silent and thought a fool, than to speak up and remove all doubt!

what an ass. maybe he should tell this to lance...or is he telling this to lance?


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## lancezneighbor (May 4, 2002)

Sasquatch said:


> now even JB is in on it:
> 
> RTjohanbruyneel Sometimes it is better to be silent and thought a fool, than to speak up and remove all doubt!
> 
> what an ass. maybe he should tell this to lance...or is he telling this to lance?


It sure applies to Lance!


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## Fredke (Dec 10, 2004)

FondriestFan said:


> Agreed. There's a big difference between the translations.


Velo News agrees and published a correction, admitting that they mistranslated AC: http://tour-de-france.velonews.com/article/96109/contador-rips-armstrong
_This updated story corrects an earlier mistranslation of a key quote. - *Editor
...
*_"My relationship with Lance is zero. He is a great champion and has done a great Tour, but on a personal level I have never had a great admiration for him and I never will," the Spaniard told a news conference in Madrid.​


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## Fredke (Dec 10, 2004)

Snakebitten said:


> Lance's legs answered what he said about last years TDF and Sastre and VDV sooooooo


I agree with you on this. My point is just that we should judge Lance and AC by the same standard: they're both incredible athletes and they're also both extremely vain, self-centered, and undiplomatic.

All in all, my judgment is that they deserve each other.


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## California L33 (Jan 20, 2006)

adimiro said:


> The article also describes that the team car was missing because Armstrong ordered it to pick up his wife, kids, and friends at the airport...what a nice team mate.


In fairness, he did try to get the TdF organizers to run the Tour by the international terminal at the airport so the team car would be there anyway, but they were pretty set on the route they'd planned


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## Sojourneyman (Jun 22, 2007)

These two are getting tiresome, they need to take it where this sort've thing belongs....


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## bigmig19 (Jun 27, 2008)

Sasquatch said:


> now even JB is in on it:
> 
> RTjohanbruyneel Sometimes it is better to be silent and thought a fool, than to speak up and remove all doubt!
> 
> what an ass. maybe he should tell this to lance...or is he telling this to lance?


 I was thinking about that exact quote when I read this story.. The things Lance said about AC were tame insinuations, opinion. AC opened his pie hole and just lost me as fan. What an A-holio. "Never admired him", what is he 12 years old. Punk.


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## MG537 (Jul 25, 2006)

jptaylorsg said:


> That would certainly be the mature thing to do. And probably Lance's only hope of winning next year's Tour. How's he going to bench Andy Schleck, though?


Easy. The way things stand now, Andy can not time trial with the best of them. So he plays the good team mate, like he's always done and stays with Lance, unless Lance bonks and then he gets the green light from Bruyneel. Why not throw in there 100% support for the TdSuisse or Paris Nice as an added incentive.
In return, Bruyneel and Lance along with professor Coyle, help Andy improve his pedalling efficiency by, let's say 16% (sorry, I had to throw that in  ), he becomes a better time trialist and eventually wins it all.


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## nagatahawk (Jun 14, 2007)

The Tedinator said:


> Press conferences, twitter attacks......cycling is becoming more like the World Wrestling Federation everyday.


I hate that name "twitter"


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## FondriestFan (May 19, 2005)

bigmig19 said:


> I was thinking about that exact quote when I read this story.. The things Lance said about AC were tame insinuations, opinion. AC opened his pie hole and just lost me as fan. What an A-holio. "Never admired him", what is he 12 years old. Punk.


Because you really sound like a former Contador fan. Really.


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## California L33 (Jan 20, 2006)

bigmig19 said:


> I was thinking about that exact quote when I read this story.. The things Lance said about AC were tame insinuations, opinion. AC opened his pie hole and just lost me as fan. What an A-holio. "Never admired him", what is he 12 years old. Punk.


These guys are pro athletes, not politicians. They really should be given lessons in how to talk to the media.


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## zosocane (Aug 29, 2004)

Not sure if this was already posted, but here's Eki's latest Twitter post:

eki_ekimov
LA is part of the team and no one thankful word to the all team from AC! NO RESPECT! Sad!
about 4 hours ago from web


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## Sasquatch (Feb 3, 2004)

losing respect for each USPS boy one by one. They're all Lance fanboys. Why the F should AC thank Lance after that thing in the hotel. Bullsheet.


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## jptaylorsg (Apr 24, 2003)

fornaca68 said:


> Not sure if this was already posted, but here's Eki's latest Twitter post:
> 
> eki_ekimov
> LA is part of the team and no one thankful word to the all team from AC! NO RESPECT! Sad!
> about 4 hours ago from web


Any word on what Lance's mom had to say about things?


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## uzziefly (Jul 15, 2006)

Hollywood is following this very closely and next summer's blockbuster is titled:

An American and a Spaniard: all talk.


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## California L33 (Jan 20, 2006)

uzziefly said:


> Hollywood is following this very closely and next summer's blockbuster is titled:
> 
> An American and a Spaniard: all talk.


Dang straight- Armstrong? Contador? They've never done anything of note. :thumbsup:


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## FondriestFan (May 19, 2005)

How does Lance know AC didn't thank his teammates? Lance didn't even attend the team dinner.


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## SilasCL (Jun 14, 2004)

FondriestFan said:


> How does Lance know AC didn't thank his teammates? Lance didn't even attend the team dinner.


Zing!


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## cheddarlove (Oct 17, 2005)

Did you guys watch the Tour on VS.? Phil was going on and on about how LA and AC are the best of friends. Camera pans to them on the road with La's mouth so turned down it was hitting his front wheel. He was waving his hands and the body language was all nasty and angry.
AC was talking to him and finally reached over and touched LA's back but LA looked beside himself ticked off. No, I don't remember what stage but stage 8 I'll bet!


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## rensho (Aug 5, 2003)

adimiro said:


> The article also describes that the team car was missing because Armstrong ordered it to pick up his wife, kids, and friends at the airport...what a nice team mate.


Yeah, he's a super class act, and the best there ever was...Go Lance!


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## rakugaki (Jul 29, 2009)

FondriestFan said:


> How does Lance know AC didn't thank his teammates? Lance didn't even attend the team dinner.


Actually, I've read an interview with Haimar Zubeldia (original in spanish here)
where he says the following regarding Contador and teammates relationships:



> - ¿Qué piensa de Contador y de Armstrong?
> - A estas alturas, lo que diga yo de Contador sólo va a servir para afirmar lo bueno que es. Cada carrera que estoy con él alucino más. En Contador todo es bueno. En la montaña no tiene rival. En Verbier me sorprendió el tiempo que sacó en los seis kilómetros finales. *Al terminar las etapas iba habitación por habitación para darte las gracias por el trabajo*.


- What do you think about Contador and Armstrong?
- At this point, what i say about Contador will only serve to strengthen how good he is. The more I race with him, the more amazed I am. He's good at everything. On the mountains he's no rival. At Verbier, it surprised me the time he go in the last six kilometers. *At the end of every stage, he would go room by room thanking you for the effort.*

The bolded sentence is the most significant. It really shows how Contador did thank their teammates. Well, at least from Zubeldia point of view.


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## jptaylorsg (Apr 24, 2003)

rakugaki said:


> Actually, I've read an interview with Haimar Zubeldia (original in spanish here)
> where he says the following regarding Contador and teammates relationships:
> 
> 
> ...


Twitter post or it didn't happen.


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## rakugaki (Jul 29, 2009)

I'm afraid we Spaniards are not so keen on Twitter


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## rensho (Aug 5, 2003)

Now Zulbeldia is going to get run off the road and put on LA's permanent sssht list.



Poppo really wants us to believe that Conti didn't thank his team (whether he meant or not) at the celebration dinner? Really? So they all just sat around eating and drinking avoiding the congrats? Really? Just sat around wondering where Lance was, and if there is really an I in team?


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## AJL (Jul 9, 2009)

rensho said:


> Now Zulbeldia is going to get run off the road and put on LA's permanent sssht list.


Maybe he doesn't care. He might want to be back on Euskaltel-Euskadi after all that has happened.


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