# New Pedal



## Pitbull Pedal (Feb 19, 2018)

Hey everyone. I just wanted to gather some opinions on this new bike pedal that we've come up with. I have a couple videos attached to show everyone how good it works. Just like everyone, I'm just trying to come up with a better product, this one just happens to be a bike pedal. As I would frequently miss clipping into my other pedals while riding in a group, with this you're gonna get in virtually 100% of the time. Let me know what everyone thinks, please don't judge too harshly. I'm not sure if there was a different areas that I should of posted this.



https://youtu.be/BGNeS1imdJ0
https://youtu.be/_w868IfOxVM 
https://youtu.be/BtvTbTSusjA


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## Jay Strongbow (May 8, 2010)

So no float? If so that shrinks the market considerably.

I'm not sure ease of clipping in is problem that needs a solution for most people with some experience with other systems.


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## Steve B. (Jun 26, 2004)

Yeah, OK, but the first thing I see is that it’s a huge contraption on the bottom of the shoe and that sometimes we actually walk around in our bike shoes, car to bike, bike to bathroom, bike to bagel store and back, etc....

This design makes that really a PITA.

Not seeing that the wheel needs to be reinvented here. What exactly did you find wrong with SPD, Speedplays, Looks, etc..... that took you down this road ?


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## Pitbull Pedal (Feb 19, 2018)

You are correct, the pedal in the video has no float. I'm an older gentleman and my partner is even older. We've found that no float is the way to go. We just put the cleats at a little angle that matches our natural stance when you're standing up. One of my partners shoes is turned out much more than the other. As when he stands naturally the one foot seems to angle out in his natural standing position. The pedals can easily be made with 2 or 3 degrees of float with no problem. They are not necessarily made for walking, but they are easy to walk in as they are basically the same height as all other cleats.

As far as why we made the change vs the other pedals, this particular pedal just offers 360 degrees of engagement and we think that it is a benefit, especially to any newer rider.


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## Pitbull Pedal (Feb 19, 2018)

Just a quick pic of the 2 pedals. One of ours and a Shimano SM-SH11, it is true that one of ours is a hair bigger. But it offers much better entry and exit. This pedal will be anodized a different color red/black/blue etc. We just haven't picked a color yet.


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## factory feel (Nov 27, 2009)

people like sexy. not sure about yours being sexy.


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## Jay Strongbow (May 8, 2010)

Pitbull Pedal said:


> Just a quick pic of the 2 pedals. One of ours and a Shimano SM-SH11, it is true that one of ours is a hair bigger. But it offers much better entry and exit. This pedal will be anodized a different color red/black/blue etc. We just haven't picked a color yet.


A few potential issues there. How does it handle mud or dirt>
and bearing slippery on certain surfaces and chewing up floors.


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## cxwrench (Nov 9, 2004)

Looks terrible. Doesn't accomplish anything that current pedal systems don't. The cleat is aluminum? Why? It's going to mess up anything you walk on indoors and walking outdoors is going to wear the cleat quickly. Does this compromise engagement? I'm pretty sure this isn't going to work out as well as you think (or hope). I'll give it 1 of 10 at this point.


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## Pitbull Pedal (Feb 19, 2018)

factory feel said:


> people like sexy. not sure about yours being sexy.


That is a valid opinion, I do think once it gets anodized a different color and the spring steel gets its titanium coating it will look a lot better. As far as operations though, it is flawless up to date.


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## Pitbull Pedal (Feb 19, 2018)

Jay Strongbow said:


> A few potential issues there. How does it handle mud or dirt>
> and bearing slippery on certain surfaces and chewing up floors.


Right now we are thinking of it as a road bike pedal, which shouldn't include a lot of mud and dirt. We have gotten mud and dirt in it before, and it simply comes right out, or I just hosed it with my water bottle and it rinsed the sticky mud right off. There are no exposed bearings to cause any issues as far as slipping on floors, and we are not aware of any damage that it has caused up to date with floors in any store we've gone into to beat the heat.


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## Pitbull Pedal (Feb 19, 2018)

cxwrench said:


> Looks terrible. Doesn't accomplish anything that current pedal systems don't. The cleat is aluminum? Why? It's going to mess up anything you walk on indoors and walking outdoors is going to wear the cleat quickly. Does this compromise engagement? I'm pretty sure this isn't going to work out as well as you think (or hope). I'll give it 1 of 10 at this point.


I appreciate your opinion, we made it out of aluminum to cut down on weight. Because some people have been brainwashed into thinking a few oz or grams are going to make them the next Tour-De-France champ. It just isn't happening unless you've got lungs and legs, you won't be going anywhere. As far as wear down there is a carbide insert that runs the whole width of the pedal. The pedal should last maybe forever. Also I think, as I said earlier that once it is anodized a different color and the spring steel gets the titanium coating it will look much better. Just in my mind at least.


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## tlg (May 11, 2011)

I would not want to walk in those. Go into any store, coffee shop, restaurant and you'd get thrown out for damaging their floors.

The 2nd video you "gently" hang the 25lb weight claiming no one would create enough outward pressure to make it slip off. I beg to differ. It's clear in the video they're not locked in real secure. Sprinting (which you don't do in your 3rd video) would do it. And powering up a 20% climb would do it.



You're not the first to come up with spindle based pedals.
TriRig TriRig Mercury

https://fairwheelbikes.com/aerolite-titanium-pedals/


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## cxwrench (Nov 9, 2004)

Pitbull Pedal said:


> Right now we are thinking of it as a road bike pedal, which shouldn't include a lot of mud and dirt. We have gotten mud and dirt in it before, and it simply comes right out, or I just hosed it with my water bottle and it rinsed the sticky mud right off. There are no exposed bearings to cause any issues as far as slipping on floors, and we are not aware of any damage that it has caused up to date with floors in any store we've gone into to beat the heat.


Aluminum cleat on wood floor or aluminum cleat marking up a nice tile floor...not good. That's why Speedplay makes the new cleats. Safer to walk on and no damage to surfaces you'll be walking on.


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## Pitbull Pedal (Feb 19, 2018)

tlg said:


> I would not want to walk in those. Go into any store, coffee shop, restaurant and you'd get thrown out for damaging their floors.
> 
> The 2nd video you "gently" hang the 25lb weight claiming no one would create enough outward pressure to make it slip off. I beg to differ. It's clear in the video they're not locked in real secure. Sprinting (which you don't do in your 3rd video) would do it. And powering up a 20% climb would do it.
> 
> ...


I understand your thought process, but I have been in many stores over the past few years and up to date have not been asked to leave or noticed any damage that I have left. What you're saying is true that I didn't jerk the 25lb weight up in one swift stroke, but it does clearly show it holding the 25lb weight. I am a fairly large rider, 6'1" and weigh 200lbs. I sprint with these pedals all of the time. I climb the bridges out of the saddle and hit them hard, again with no slippage. Obviously we are all trying to pedal in circles, push and pull is our method of course. But when I am sprinting, my heels do not kick out like I'm trying to disengage all other pedals, therefore there is no slippage. Actually in the video, you can't tell it because of my crappy video, but as I make the U-Turn I'm out of the saddle and hitting it hard. Later I shift gear and I'm actually out of the saddle again as I am getting close to the camera. It just did not show up very well.


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## Pitbull Pedal (Feb 19, 2018)

cxwrench said:


> Aluminum cleat on wood floor or aluminum cleat marking up a nice tile floor...not good. That's why Speedplay makes the new cleats. Safer to walk on and no damage to surfaces you'll be walking on.


I can't deny that a pedal that's secondary design to walk on hardwood floors isn't better, but I can guarantee that I can get out of my pedals much faster.


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## tlg (May 11, 2011)

Pitbull Pedal said:


> There are no exposed bearings to cause any issues as far as slipping on floors, and we are not aware of any damage that it has caused up to date with floors in any store we've gone into to beat the heat.


There's no way a 150-200lb person bearing all their weight onto that little aluminum surface (chewed up from walking on asphalt) isn't going to damage floors. No way.


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## Pitbull Pedal (Feb 19, 2018)

Just as a for instance, the Tririg Mercury is similar to ours. But where I think ours is superior is getting in and out and the holding power. Their pedal you have to line up the pedal shaft up directly with the plastic cleat and push it down. I do not believe that this pedal will hold on hard riding as you are pulling and pushing, and taking the time to line the pedal up with the groove perfectly will just take more time than ours.


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## Pitbull Pedal (Feb 19, 2018)

tlg said:


> There's no way a 150-200lb person bearing all their weight onto that little aluminum surface (chewed up from walking on asphalt) isn't going to damage floors. No way.
> 
> View attachment 321904


Again I agree with what you are saying, I think that if you were to go into a store and pirouette like a figure skater that you could cause some serious damage. But in normal conditions we have had no issues up to date. I do appreciate the input though.


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## cxwrench (Nov 9, 2004)

Pitbull Pedal said:


> I can't deny that a pedal that's secondary design to walk on hardwood floors isn't better, but I can guarantee that *I can get out of my pedals much faster.*


You disengage in the same manner as other pedal systems, right? Just how much faster can you do that? I've been around a long time and seen a LOT of wacky pedal systems that do nothing better than the currently available offerings from the major manufacturers. Yours will just be another one of these...sorry. I'd advise to head back to the drawing board.


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## tlg (May 11, 2011)

Pitbull Pedal said:


> I sprint with these pedals all of the time.
> 
> Actually in the video, you can't tell it because of my crappy video, but as I make the U-Turn I'm out of the saddle and hitting it hard. Later I shift gear and I'm actually out of the saddle again as I am getting close to the camera. It just did not show up very well.


Oh no, I can absolutely tell from the video, especially as you're going towards the camera. That's not sprinting.


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## harryman (Nov 14, 2014)

That naked spindle scares me...... stabby stabby


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## velodog (Sep 26, 2007)

harryman said:


> That naked spindle scares me...... stabby stabby


Paired up with disc brakes and we have a slasher movie.


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## kiwisimon (Oct 30, 2002)

The easy engagement looks great. Don't be deterred by the feedback you get here. They would have told Mr Dysoin back in 1980 no one needs a new vacuum, in fact Hoover and Electrolux did. What are your plans for this? 

But, as the "inventor" your baby, probably needs testing by someone not emotionally invested in the system. If you are aiming for the racing market ask a racer to use it for a few weeks. If weekend warriors then ask someone else. For me with dodgy knees the lack of float would turn me off. BTW, can you use grams for your weight measurements, ounces are so 19th century. Good luck.


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## No Time Toulouse (Sep 7, 2016)

Sorry, but I'm not convinced. Not only does that cleat look to be just about impossible to walk on, but being aluminum it's likely to bend and break easily.


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## Marc (Jan 23, 2005)

tlg said:


> There's no way a 150-200lb person bearing all their weight onto that little aluminum surface (chewed up from walking on asphalt) isn't going to damage floors. No way.
> 
> View attachment 321904


Gas stations with linoleum floors. Need I say more?


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## factory feel (Nov 27, 2009)

How would they be walking home from a flat or mechanical?


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## Finx (Oct 19, 2017)

I apprecaite what you are trying to do. There is always a place for a better mousetrap.

That aluminum bracket sticking down off of the bottom of that shoe looks like a problem. Not just for floors as others have mentioned, but just trying to walk in it, and not tripping over anything. 

What is the stack height of this system? How awkward is it to walk in compared to a speedplay walkable or SPD-SL?

Perhaps a profile shot of the shoe with your cleat sitting on a flat surface compared to the same shot of a Speedplay Walkable or SPD-SL cleated shoe?


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## kiwisimon (Oct 30, 2002)

factory feel said:


> How would they be walking home from a flat or mechanical?


what road specific cleat isn't a PITA?


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## BCSaltchucker (Jul 20, 2011)

this pedal system looks like it should be priced WELL under the decent Exustar PR100 which sells for less than $40


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## Pisgah2000 (Nov 24, 2015)

Have these been mentioned yet?










https://newatlas.com/ultralite-worlds-lightest-bicycle-pedals/24146/

This may be a small concern, but I'd not want to have the end of the pedal in the OP land on any part of my body in a crash.


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## tlg (May 11, 2011)

Pisgah2000 said:


> Have these been mentioned yet?


Yes, post #12. Not those particular pedals, but there's been numerous versions of post type pedals over the years, in very refined forms. Yet none of them take off. Hmmmm.


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## Jay Strongbow (May 8, 2010)

tlg said:


> Yes, post #12. Not those particular pedals, but there's been numerous versions of post type pedals over the years, in very refined forms. Yet none of them take off. Hmmmm.


From what I understand about the first one's that were linked to is extreme weightweenies get them for purposes of weighing their bike and being able to say it's functional. I don't think anyone actually buys them for purposes of getting a good functioning pedal.


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## Pitbull Pedal (Feb 19, 2018)

kiwisimon said:


> The easy engagement looks great. Don't be deterred by the feedback you get here. They would have told Mr Dysoin back in 1980 no one needs a new vacuum, in fact Hoover and Electrolux did. What are your plans for this?
> 
> But, as the "inventor" your baby, probably needs testing by someone not emotionally invested in the system. If you are aiming for the racing market ask a racer to use it for a few weeks. If weekend warriors then ask someone else. For me with dodgy knees the lack of float would turn me off. BTW, can you use grams for your weight measurements, ounces are so 19th century. Good luck.


Thanks for the input. We really don't have any exact plans yet as we're just having some fun with a new product. I think that they really should be for the weekend warrior, or any new person wanting to start moving into clip in pedals as they are so easy to clip into. I also think that they'd be perfectly fine for anyone else as they work perfectly. But if you're the type of person that thinks a few grams here or there are going to influence your ride, these could weigh a little extra.

You are correct in this first initial design of the pedal there is no float, but with how the design is a manufacturer could easily pitch or angle the sides 2 or 3 degrees to create some float without any trouble.

As far as oz and grams, I'm just and old buck having some fun.


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## OldZaskar (Jul 1, 2009)

Pitbull, this is a tough crowd. I love (!) that you're innovating in an area that hasn't seen a whole lot of innovation. But, I do think there are two deal killers to address: the lack of float, and the floor-damaging, ass-busting aluminum cleat.


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## Pisgah2000 (Nov 24, 2015)

tlg said:


> Yes, post #12. Not those particular pedals, but there's been numerous versions of post type pedals over the years, in very refined forms. Yet none of them take off. Hmmmm.


Ah. Still working on my morning coffee. Carry on.


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## Pitbull Pedal (Feb 19, 2018)

No Time Toulouse said:


> Sorry, but I'm not convinced. Not only does that cleat look to be just about impossible to walk on, but being aluminum it's likely to bend and break easily.


I understand the concern, we have thickened up the aluminum in certain areas. I'm a 200lb rider and have been walking on them for a long period of time with no problems. Our new pedals have a carbide insert to prevent any wearing down of the aluminum.




factory feel said:


> How would they be walking home from a flat or mechanical?


Just like any other road bike shoe, it isn't really what you would hope to have to do. You could definitely do it, but no matter what road shoes I had on, if it was possible I'd remove them and walk in my socks.




BCSaltchucker said:


> this pedal system looks like it should be priced WELL under the decent Exustar PR100 which sells for less than $40


I do appreciate the thought, but there is no way the pedal could be produced and sold for that pricing as far as I can tell. It works flawlessly going in and coming out, and that should have some value to it.




Pisgah2000 said:


> This may be a small concern, but I'd not want to have the end of the pedal in the OP land on any part of my body in a crash.


I understand the concern, but the pedal is completely rounded off and polished to a smooth surface, your brake handles come to more of a point than our pedal as far as being able to gouge you. Also all of us are trying not to crash, but if we do there are so many variables that can happen with objects on the bike/road/trail and we can't be protected from everything, every time.



Finx said:


> I apprecaite what you are trying to do. There is always a place for a better mousetrap.
> 
> That aluminum bracket sticking down off of the bottom of that shoe looks like a problem. Not just for floors as others have mentioned, but just trying to walk in it, and not tripping over anything.
> 
> ...


As far as our pedal, the total height is 5/8" which is basically the same height as other clip ins such as the Shimano cleat. I can't stress enough that walking is not a problem, but they are still bike cleats and not walking shoes. I don't have any of those pedals to put next to mine, but I could post a photo of my shoe on a flat surface if you would like.


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## Pitbull Pedal (Feb 19, 2018)

Just thought I would add a picture of the pedals all polished and ready to go get anodized. They look so good polished, we are thinking about leaving them be as when they get scratched you could always just touch them up. If they get anodized and then scratched the scratches will be there forever. The 2 pieces of spring steel are not in the picture, but they're going to have a titanium coating.


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## velodog (Sep 26, 2007)

OldZaskar said:


> Pitbull, this is a tough crowd. I love (!) that you're innovating in an area that hasn't seen a whole lot of innovation. But, I do think there are two deal killers to address: the lack of float, and the floor-damaging, ass-busting aluminum cleat.


I think, as a couple of posters have mentioned, that the exposed pedal spindle would be a 3rd deal breaker. 

While the disc brake scare tactic is a bit over done, that exposed spindle looks to be a real hazard in a crash. A foot disengaged from the pedal while the riders full weight is still being carried by the bike could leave a nasty puncture wound in a group crash. Or landing on a bike with these pedals with ones full weight in the event of a crash could leave the same puncture wound.

Puncture wounds caused by round instruments, as opposed to bladed, are nasty and don't heal easily.


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## tlg (May 11, 2011)

Pitbull Pedal said:


> Just thought I would add a picture of the pedals all polished and ready to go get anodized. They look so good polished, we are thinking about leaving them be as when they get scratched you could always just touch them up. If they get anodized and then scratched the scratches will be there forever. The 2 pieces of spring steel are not in the picture, but they're going to have a titanium coating.


Yes the do look nice. Are they CNC machined from a solid piece of aluminum? Or pre-cast and final machined? 
Either way, they look dang expensive. What do they cost?

Don't anodize them! Unless you go clear. Any color is just going to scratch up and look ugly. And it's just wasted cost.


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## velodog (Sep 26, 2007)

Pitbull Pedal said:


> I understand the concern, but the pedal is completely rounded off and polished to a smooth surface, your brake handles come to more of a point than our pedal as far as being able to gouge you. Also all of us are trying not to crash, but if we do there are so many variables that can happen with objects on the bike/road/trail and we can't be protected from everything, every time.


It's not about being protected from everything. A brake lever following the curve of the handlebars is not the same as a spindle sticking out at a right angle from the crank arm.


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## Pitbull Pedal (Feb 19, 2018)

tlg said:


> Yes the do look nice. Are they CNC machined from a solid piece of aluminum? Or pre-cast and final machined?
> Either way, they look dang expensive. What do they cost?
> Don't anodize them! Unless you go clear. Any color is just going to scratch up and look ugly. And it's just wasted cost.


Yes, they are CNC'd out of a solid piece of aluminum, and then put into a press to bend the correct arc that matches the shoe. We were thinking of clear anodize too, but we may just go with raw, as it'll cut down on production cost and it can be rebuffed as needed.




OldZaskar said:


> Pitbull, this is a tough crowd. I love (!) that you're innovating in an area that hasn't seen a whole lot of innovation. But, I do think there are two deal killers to address: the lack of float, and the floor-damaging, ass-busting aluminum cleat.


As I had stated earlier, they can easily be made to have 2 or 3 degrees of float. I can only reiterate that we've walked with them many many times.



velodog said:


> I think, as a couple of posters have mentioned, that the exposed pedal spindle would be a 3rd deal breaker.
> 
> While the disc brake scare tactic is a bit over done, that exposed spindle looks to be a real hazard in a crash. A foot disengaged from the pedal while the riders full weight is still being carried by the bike could leave a nasty puncture wound in a group crash. Or landing on a bike with these pedals with ones full weight in the event of a crash could leave the same puncture wound.
> 
> Puncture wounds caused by round instruments, as opposed to bladed, are nasty and don't heal easily.


There is not much that I can say except that we're all trying not to crash, there are so many variables that can happen in a major crash, and to dwell on only that one spot doesn't seem where we need to spend 100% of our focus. But that is why we had made it such a blunt and smooth end.


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## tlg (May 11, 2011)

Pitbull Pedal said:


> Yes, they are CNC'd out of a solid piece of aluminum, and then put into a press to bend the correct arc that matches the shoe. We were thinking of clear anodize too, but we may just go with raw, as it'll cut down on production cost and it can be rebuffed as needed.


What do they cost?


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## duriel (Oct 10, 2013)

What percentage of riders that ride over 6hr/wk have 'road' shoes. I'm thinking like 10%?


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## Jay Strongbow (May 8, 2010)

Another thing you need to test is the impact of wear. I know you're touting the easy out but I wouldn't be so confident than getting out so easy is a good thing and wear will only make getting out easier. Fine for casual riding but if it's as easy as your video makes it look I wouldn't want to sprint in with those things.


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## cxwrench (Nov 9, 2004)

duriel said:


> What percentage of riders that ride over 6hr/wk have 'road' shoes. I'm thinking like 10%?


In my area I'd have to guess about 75%. Someone that rides that much is most likely serious enough to use road shoes.


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## Fredrico (Jun 15, 2002)

Here ya go, light weight; good support of foot over a wide area; easy to slip in and out of; feet will stay on the pedals with or without cycling shoes. The cleats have no protrusions to wear down and last a long time. The pedal bearings are serviceable but never wear out. The cages get destroyed in a crash first. They're cheap and readily available throughout the world.  

The cleats have no float. Its bad for the knees. :yesnod:


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## BCSaltchucker (Jul 20, 2011)

last time I used clipped pedal cleats .. I had to attach them by hammering in tacks into the leather. And ... the cleats were made of aluminum, which wasn't all bad. But was a pita if not placed exactly in the right spot, lol.


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## Fredrico (Jun 15, 2002)

BCSaltchucker said:


> last time I used clipped pedal cleats .. I had to attach them by hammering in tacks into the leather. And ... the cleats were made of aluminum, which wasn't all bad.


That was before flexible plastics, huh? Good old fashioned wood. And tacking the cleats on there was how it was done! 

Already entering mid-life crisis and late to the game, my first pair had leather soles with an alleged titanium shank imbedded down the middle. They couldn't have been as stiff as the fabled wooden ones. Still, it took Look and Shimano 20 years to widen their platforms to rat trap pedal cage size. Keirin racers in Japan are still riding those pedals. Some trackies who went to clipless added toe straps just to be sure.

Oh yeah, rider can loosen the strap for quick exit in traffic and tighten it when doing tempo, climbing, etc. Beats the tension adjustment schemes on clipless pedals.


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## Retro Grouch (Apr 30, 2002)

Interesting thread. 

I'm well into my third decade of road cycling. I started on Sampson Sakae, then onto Looks and finally settled on Speedplay X-1 for over twenty years now. I still haven't seen a pedal system that would make me change.


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## kiwisimon (Oct 30, 2002)

Pitbull Pedal said:


> Thanks for the input. We really don't have any exact plans yet as we're just having some fun with a new product. I think that they really should be for the weekend warrior, or any new person wanting to start moving into clip in pedals as they are so easy to clip into. I also think that they'd be perfectly fine for anyone else as they work perfectly. But if you're the type of person that thinks a few grams here or there are going to influence your ride, these could weigh a little extra.
> 
> You are correct in this first initial design of the pedal there is no float, but with how the design is a manufacturer could easily pitch or angle the sides 2 or 3 degrees to create some float without any trouble.
> 
> As far as oz and grams, I'm just and old buck having some fun.


Well if you want a beta tester you won't have to look far. Good luck.


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## No Time Toulouse (Sep 7, 2016)

From what I see, you have developed the most bulky, heaviest, and most awkward cleat (maybe also the most expensive), and most easy to damage (although Speedplays are probably as bad). I see zero advantage to your system. Also, that little piece of spring steel you are using to hold the axle in looks like it's likely to break on the road, leaving you few options.

I wish you well, but I wouldn't sink much money into this idea.


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## No Time Toulouse (Sep 7, 2016)

Pisgah2000 said:


> Have these been mentioned yet?
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Those look like they have the same drawbacks, but at least are cheaper, lighter, and easier to replace.


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## Pitbull Pedal (Feb 19, 2018)

No Time Toulouse said:


> From what I see, you have developed the most bulky, heaviest, and most awkward cleat (maybe also the most expensive), and most easy to damage (although Speedplays are probably as bad). I see zero advantage to your system. Also, that little piece of spring steel you are using to hold the axle in looks like it's likely to break on the road, leaving you few options.
> I wish you well, but I wouldn't sink much money into this idea.


Appreciate the input and feedback, it truly isn't bulky it may just appear that way in the pictures. The side by side picture with the shimano cleat, ours is a little longer but theirs is a little wider so we do feel like we're in the boundaries of size. As far as heaviest, I really don't believe that they'd be the heaviest, they're actually lighter than most pedals. Now this is just my opinion, I believe the industry has been brilliant in marketing these weight issues to everyone. What I have learned over the last 5 years, which may not be that long to lifelong cyclists, wind and hills are your enemy. A few grams here or there fighting a 20mph headwind means nothing. Also in my opinion a few grams climbing a mountain also means nothing as what you've lost on your ascent, gravity will make up for on the descent. All that we're claiming for these pedals are that they are the fastest pedals to get into and the easiest. I'm a 200lb test person and we've had no issues up to date. Again, these are just my thoughts. As far as the spring steel, it only is bending a few thousands of an inch to secure itself into place. There really should be no chance of it having a problem.




duriel said:


> What percentage of riders that ride over 6hr/wk have 'road' shoes. I'm thinking like 10%?


I have no idea. But there are many pedal companies out there who sell pedals, who must think that it is a valid business.




Jay Strongbow said:


> Another thing you need to test is the impact of wear. I know you're touting the easy out but I wouldn't be so confident than getting out so easy is a good thing and wear will only make getting out easier. Fine for casual riding but if it's as easy as your video makes it look I wouldn't want to sprint in with those things.


Again, thanks for the input. There is no wear to the aluminum cleat as there is a carbide insert that touches the ground. As I showed in an earlier video I could hang 20lbs of weight off it with zero slippage. Last but least, I have found out that I'm a pretty decent bike rider for my age, and I can hammer these pedals up our local bridges with zero slippage up to date. One additional thing, there is an adjustment on the pedal to adjust how hard it is to get in and out of with just a quarter turn it changes it dramatically. A full turn, and you'll be unable to get out. That is how secure the pedal really is.



Fredrico said:


> Here ya go, light weight; good support of foot over a wide area; easy to slip in and out of; feet will stay on the pedals with or without cycling shoes. The cleats have no protrusions to wear down and last a long time. The pedal bearings are serviceable but never wear out. The cages get destroyed in a crash first. They're cheap and readily available throughout the world.
> 
> The cleats have no float. Its bad for the knees. :yesnod:


It just looks like an old school cage system and I believe that I can get in and out much quicker than those. Ours has an extremely wide platform to even the weight out over your entire foot. Ours also have bling 





BCSaltchucker said:


> last time I used clipped pedal cleats .. I had to attach them by hammering in tacks into the leather. And ... the cleats were made of aluminum, which wasn't all bad. But was a pita if not placed exactly in the right spot, lol.


Sounds like an old system. Our cleats are adjustable, and also our cleats can be made with float. These particular ones that we've been enjoying have no float. I recommend that if a person is transitioning from float pedals to non-float pedals that they were their shoes extremely loose and gradually tighten them up. Just to try and train your leg into this new motion

.








Here is a picture of my hot rod. I wouldn't trade the bike for anything. I just want to thank everyone for your input, both pro's and con's. I've tried to answer all of them as truthfully as possible. We're just a couple of old bucks who have come up with an idea and are seeing what we can do with it. It has been fun up to date about all the different types that we've come up trying to get to what we believe is the best road bike pedal.


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## factory feel (Nov 27, 2009)

Don’t give up. Follow your dreams and have fun along the way.


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## No Time Toulouse (Sep 7, 2016)

factory feel said:


> Don’t give up. Follow your dreams and have fun along the way.


....and lose your shirt on it, just like about 90% of the people who try to bring new cycling components to market do.


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## pedalbiker (Nov 23, 2014)

No float is a complete dealbreaker for me. Even 2-3 degrees isn't enough. 

I run a minimum of 6, and I actively use it all throughout a ride.


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## kiwisimon (Oct 30, 2002)

No Time Toulouse said:


> ....and lose your shirt on it, just like about 90% of the people who try to bring new cycling components to market do.


You must be popular in droughts. I think Cape Town is calling....


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## cxwrench (Nov 9, 2004)

kiwisimon said:


> You must be popular in droughts. I think Cape Town is calling....


But he's right, especially in this case. Following your dream is one thing...following your not-so-smart dream is another completely.


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## Pitbull Pedal (Feb 19, 2018)

pedalbiker said:


> No float is a complete dealbreaker for me. Even 2-3 degrees isn't enough.
> 
> I run a minimum of 6, and I actively use it all throughout a ride.


I appreciate you wanting maximum float, unfortunately for me I had the maximum float on my LOOK pedals and it actually allowed my heel to rub the crank enough to distort the dura-ace crank logo. So whatever float a person may need, I would hope that they could get away with less than I had encountered. Again, just my opinion. We all know, opinions are like a**holes and everyone has one, this one is just mine haha.


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## Oxtox (Aug 16, 2006)

it's good to have people trying different approaches to things...

pointing out design flaws and desirable attributes is helpful, being a snarky jerk and telling the guy his idea is crap isn't. 

consumers will determine if a new item is an improved and cost-competitive alternative to other products.


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## Finx (Oct 19, 2017)

Oxtox said:


> it's good to have people trying different approaches to things...
> 
> pointing out design flaws and desirable attributes is helpful, being a snarky jerk and telling the guy his idea is crap isn't.
> 
> consumers will determine if a new item is an improved and cost-competitive alternative to other products.


I agree with this sentiment. Giving useful feedback is useful. This is obviously what the OP wanted bringing this here.

You can do this without being a jerk about it.

For my part, it sounds like the problem being solved here is to make engagement easier. As a long time speedplay x1 and zero user, I don't find engagement to be an issue. These pedals are engaged by a simple natural downward pressure. Like any pedal, they do take some getting used to, but once you've done it a few times, it becomes second nature and you don't really think about it.

If I were looking for a new pedal, I think I would be put off by this pedals aesthetic and the harsh looking metal cleat protruding from the bottom of the shoe.

I don't really know exactly how this pedal design works, but if a minor redesign resulted in a more user (and floor) friendly cleat and pedal spindle, and the cost was reasonable, I might consider giving it a try...


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## factory feel (Nov 27, 2009)

cxwrench said:


> But he's right, especially in this case. Following your dream is one thing...following your not-so-smart dream is another completely.


What if Al Gore had listened to the naysayers?

You wouldn't be here to brighten our day.


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## No Time Toulouse (Sep 7, 2016)

cxwrench said:


> But he's right, especially in this case. Following your dream is one thing...following your not-so-smart dream is another completely.


Yes. FWIW, I'm in the CNC business. We could make that cleat for you, for about $10 each, not plated. You could retail them for $20. So that would make this cleat the heaviest, largest, most awkward to walk on, as well as the most expensive on the market with the least amount of float (and I don't even like pedal float!). Sorry, but I see far too many issues. 

OTOH, if you are OK with all the drawbacks mentioned above, then you should incorporate a spindle for the entire cleat assembly to rotate on. Or perhaps just make a big old magnet to hold on with?





duriel said:


> What percentage of riders that ride over 6hr/wk have 'road' shoes. I'm thinking like 10%?


Around my town, I'd say better than 1/2 of ALL bike owners have "road shoes", and probably 90% of those who ride over 6 hrs/week.

Do you live somewhere in the vicinity of Podunk?


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## kiwisimon (Oct 30, 2002)

Pitbull Pedal said:


> I appreciate you wanting maximum float, unfortunately for me I had the maximum float on my LOOK pedals and it actually allowed my heel to rub the crank enough to distort the dura-ace crank logo. So whatever float a person may need, I would hope that they could get away with less than I had encountered.


What are your plans going forward? Are you seriously thinking about a production run?


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## GKSki (Nov 12, 2014)

Consider that you may not be able to get UCI approval and that will impact you whether or not your targeted customers race. I can't see that spindle being approved.


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## cxwrench (Nov 9, 2004)

GKSki said:


> Consider that you may not be able to get UCI approval and that will impact you whether or not your targeted customers race. I can't see that spindle being approved.


Excellent point.


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## shiggy (Mar 18, 2005)

Pitbull Pedal said:


> I understand your thought process, but I have been in many stores over the past few years and up to date have not been asked to leave or noticed any damage that I have left. What you're saying is true that I didn't jerk the 25lb weight up in one swift stroke, but it does clearly show it holding the 25lb weight. I am a fairly large rider, 6'1" and weigh 200lbs. I sprint with these pedals all of the time. I climb the bridges out of the saddle and hit them hard, again with no slippage. Obviously we are all trying to pedal in circles, push and pull is our method of course. But when I am sprinting, my heels do not kick out like I'm trying to disengage all other pedals, therefore there is no slippage. Actually in the video, you can't tell it because of my crappy video, but as I make the U-Turn I'm out of the saddle and hitting it hard. Later I shift gear and I'm actually out of the saddle again as I am getting close to the camera. It just did not show up very well.


Accelerating out of the saddle is not sprinting and bridges are not climbs.

You really need to have truly strong and fast riders (racers) to test these. I think their results would shock you.


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## Pitbull Pedal (Feb 19, 2018)

kiwisimon said:


> What are your plans going forward? Are you seriously thinking about a production run?


As far as right now, we are not really planning on producing them ourselves. We'd like to find a company in the US and offer them either the patent or the rights to produce the item and just get some sort of small royalty check if possible. Not trying to get rich, just trying to have some fun.




GKSki said:


> Consider that you may not be able to get UCI approval and that will impact you whether or not your targeted customers race. I can't see that spindle being approved.


I understand what you mean, and we do not know much about all the official race rules. But one thing that I can tell you, if they will allow an open unprotected front chain ring that already has cut my partner fairly badly, I would think that they would allow a blunt object vs a jagged sharp chain ring.




shiggy said:


> Accelerating out of the saddle is not sprinting and bridges are not climbs.
> 
> You really need to have truly strong and fast riders (racers) to test these. I think their results would shock you.


By any chance do you know any professional riders that would be known around the country as a common name, that we could send a set to and get their feedback?


Also with all of this talk, that we do appreciate. Something has slipped my mind which I can't believe. The pedals that we have shown you videos of, are retrofittable onto any bike shoe. But our patent includes our own shoe, that would make these pedals virtually like a sneaker. You'd be walking on the shoe only and the pedal would not touch the ground. This picture is just generated by our computer guy as one potential design and color.


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## Pitbull Pedal (Feb 19, 2018)

One thing that I want to make clear to everyone, that I probably did not earlier. Is my partner in crime here, is an engineer and has a full CNC machine shop. That is why when I keep trying to tell everyone that this pedal holds unless you turn your heel, it really does hold. Just saying.


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## shiggy (Mar 18, 2005)

At this point you do not need a well know Pro to use and endorse your pedal. Experienced top level local racers can provide valuable feedback.
Don't know any? Go to your LBS. Ask.


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## tlg (May 11, 2011)

Pitbull Pedal said:


> As far as right now, we are not really planning on producing them ourselves. We'd like to find a company in the US and offer them either the patent or the rights to produce the item


You actually have a patent on these? Or have applied for a patent?
I find it hard to believe you'd get a patent given that these are very similar in concept to several other pedals, which likely have patented the spindle concept.




> By any chance do you know any professional riders that would be known around the country as a common name, that we could send a set to and get their feedback?


You may want to find a local unknown racer to do that. I doubt you'll get the positive feedback you think you'd get. And getting negative feedback from a well know professional would be the kiss of death.




> This picture is just generated by our computer guy as one potential design and color.


Tell your computer guy he needs to study closer the relationship between the spindle and foot. He's at least an inch off and it looks super wonky pedaling with your toes.


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## Jay Strongbow (May 8, 2010)

Pitbull Pedal said:


> As far as right now, we are not really planning on producing them ourselves. We'd like to find a company in the US and offer them either the patent or the rights to produce the item and just get some sort of small royalty check if possible. Not trying to get rich, just trying to have some fun.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I think you need to consider how drastically that would shrink and already small potential market. A large percentage of people simply would not fit in your shoes unless you made a ton of different widths, arch support ect. And another percentage of people would choose pedals knowing it forced them into a certain shoe even if that shoe happened to fit.

Of course shoes IN ADDITION to cleats alone would take care of the shunken market thing. But then I think you'd sink a lot of money into making shoes you wouldn't sell.


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## Pitbull Pedal (Feb 19, 2018)

I do appreciate it, I just would like to send it to some well known person and get a thumbs up or down from someone with a recognizable name.


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## GKSki (Nov 12, 2014)

I think you are way off base comparing the danger of your spindle to a chainring. I've had my back ridden up by a chainring in a race crash and that's nothing like the organ piercing damage your spindle could cause. That and the fact that the 2 dangers lie in different planes. The chainring is only a danger front to back whereas the pedal spindle would come into play in any side to side crash.

Your design concept has merit, but I am just saying that the spindle is too narrow, too pointed, too dangerous. Besides the UCI, even the CPSC could have some issues with it.


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## tlg (May 11, 2011)

Pitbull Pedal said:


> I do appreciate it, I just would like to send it to some well known person and get a thumbs up or down from someone with a recognizable name.


Why on earth would you want a thumbs down from a recognizable name?

Why wouldn't you do your R & D with someone local?


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## Pitbull Pedal (Feb 19, 2018)

tlg said:


> You actually have a patent on these? Or have applied for a patent?
> I find it hard to believe you'd get a patent given that these are very similar in concept to several other pedals, which likely have patented the spindle concept.
> 
> 
> ...


Yes we do have an actual patent on our pedal and shoe system. Our locking mechanism was so much different than the others, that everything we wrote into the patent, the patent office agreed with everything and gave us a full patent on many, many differences.

I hate to sound so cocky, but as I had stated my partner is an engineer/machinist. What I am trying to tell everyone, is that these pedals work exactly like the video. I would have to think an actual "quality" rider in the upper levels would not weigh 200lb like I do. Where I may not be a tour-de-france hopeful, I am very strong for a short burst. Up to date, there has been zero slippage.

I appreciate also the feedback on the picture. It is just a computer generated photo, and the center of the pedal will truly be in the center of the ball of the foot. The cleat that is on your shoe, offers a wide stiff platform with no flexing.


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## tlg (May 11, 2011)

Pitbull Pedal said:


> I hate to sound so cocky, but as I had stated my partner is an engineer/machinist.


 Maybe put the cockyness aside.. and for a second consider that some of us are engineers too. (hint hint)



> What I am trying to tell everyone, is that these pedals work exactly like the video. I would have to think an actual "quality" rider in the upper levels would not weigh 200lb like I do. Where I may not be a tour-de-france hopeful, I am very strong for a short burst. Up to date, there has been zero slippage.


Your weight is irrelevant. You're not putting out the power like a "quality" rider.
As has been pointed out to you... numerous times.... you're in no way sprinting in your video. Not even close. Not even at a Cat 3/5 level. Let alone a pro.

I strongly suggest you go to your local bike shop. Find a Cat 1/2 racer. And have them try sprinting with your pedals.


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## velodog (Sep 26, 2007)

Pitbull Pedal said:


> Yes we do have an actual patent on our pedal and shoe system. Our locking mechanism was so much different than the others, that everything we wrote into the patent, the patent office agreed with everything and gave us a full patent on many, many differences.
> 
> I hate to sound so cocky, but as I had stated my partner is an engineer/machinist. What I am trying to tell everyone, is that these pedals work exactly like the video. I would have to think an actual "quality" rider in the upper levels would not weigh 200lb like I do. Where I may not be a tour-de-france hopeful, *I am very strong for a short burst*. Up to date, there has been zero slippage.
> 
> I appreciate also the feedback on the picture. It is just a computer generated photo, and the center of the pedal will truly be in the center of the ball of the foot. The cleat that is on your shoe, offers a wide stiff platform with no flexing.


What is very strong for a short burst?

How many watts and for how long. 200lbs doesn't equate with 800 watts and a strong 65yr old isn't a strong 25yr old.

And I think that a puncture wound from a pedal spindle is a much more serious injury than you seem to regard it. Round bayonets were outlawed by the Geneva Convention because of the devastating wounds, used in warfare, that they created, and a pedal spindle is pretty much a bayonet mounted on a crankarm.


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## Retro Grouch (Apr 30, 2002)

The time for debate is over. Go on Shark Tank and present your idea to the experts 😁


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## crit_boy (Aug 6, 2013)

This US 9,609,905 B1 ?

I didn't see a supplemental sole in your video.


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## Finx (Oct 19, 2017)

Is this it?

https://patents.google.com/patent/US9609905


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## bmach (Apr 13, 2011)

Best of luck hope it all “clicks” for you.


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## Pitbull Pedal (Feb 19, 2018)

tlg said:


> Maybe put the cockyness aside.. and for a second consider that some of us are engineers too. (hint hint)
> 
> Your weight is irrelevant. You're not putting out the power like a "quality" rider.
> As has been pointed out to you... numerous times.... you're in no way sprinting in your video. Not even close. Not even at a Cat 3/5 level. Let alone a pro.
> ...


I appreciate that you are an engineer also, and if you are a good one and you made the statement that your item would work, you would hope that people would believe you. I understand the simplicity of our unit, but it does hold like I've mentioned. As far as finding a tester, I do agree that it is a good idea. I just wish I could find someone with some name recognition.


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## Pitbull Pedal (Feb 19, 2018)

velodog said:


> What is very strong for a short burst?
> 
> How many watts and for how long. 200lbs doesn't equate with 800 watts and a strong 65yr old isn't a strong 25yr old.
> 
> And I think that a puncture wound from a pedal spindle is a much more serious injury than you seem to regard it. Round bayonets were outlawed by the Geneva Convention because of the devastating wounds, used in warfare, that they created, and a pedal spindle is pretty much a bayonet mounted on a crankarm.


As far as watts go, I have to be honest that I don't have a watt meter on my bike. But one of my buddies who is a really strong sprinter I just text, he estimates my wattage on sprints to be around 1375 watts. I would say he is a B+/A rider. I'm sorry but he didn't identify the length that I am going. He can hit upwards of 1500. In my opinion he is a beast. He does seem to get tired quicker, and I can come back around him if we have enough distance left to go.

I agree that the optimum bluntness is better, but there are so many variables in a crash. To dwell on that one particular variable doesn't seem fair. I have witnessed major cuts with the front exposed sprocket on the crank, it is like a serrated knife edge. That seems to be ok in everyone's mind though. Just saying.


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## Pitbull Pedal (Feb 19, 2018)

Finx said:


> Is this it?
> 
> https://patents.google.com/patent/US9609905


Yes that is our original patent, as you can see on the original patent it talks about a much larger cleat. That is what we had, and that is why we included the shoe to help blend the cleat into the shoe as the cleat was so large. We have completely perfected the pedal system and have patent pending on the latest version. Our patent attorney told us that we probably did not even need to get patent pending on this new one as everything basically works the same. But he said just to be 100% safe we should get an additional patent on the new version.


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## tlg (May 11, 2011)

Pitbull Pedal said:


> I appreciate that you are an engineer also, and if you are a good one and you made the statement that your item would work, you would hope that people would believe you.


The fact that the engineer never actually tested the item in real world scenarios.... I'd be skeptical. 



Pitbull Pedal said:


> We have *completely perfected the pedal system* and have patent pending on the latest version.


 Why are you here asking for advice if your system is completely perfected?


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## Pitbull Pedal (Feb 19, 2018)

I do feel that the system is perfected as far as to accomplish what we're saying it will do. I think I'm just hoping to get people to look at it, put in their opinions and see how the pedal was received. We're hoping to try and take it out to market next week, and I appreciate you and everyone else that is participating.


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## tlg (May 11, 2011)

Pitbull Pedal said:


> We're hoping to try and take it out to market next week, and I appreciate you and everyone else that is participating.


You're taking a product to market that you haven't properly tested? 
Hope your business is an LLC and you have good liability insurance.


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## Pitbull Pedal (Feb 19, 2018)

I don't really feel that we're ever going to try to produce it. Therefore I don't believe that we'll have any liability issues, we're just trying to find a company or investor that may want to purchase the patent or the rights to produce it, etc. This isn't a life and death issue with my friend and I, we're just having some fun.

I've added a picture of the pedals in the boxing that we're going to go with to try to market the pedal. It doesn't have the clear plastic lid on it though.


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## tlg (May 11, 2011)

Pitbull Pedal said:


> I don't really feel that we're ever going to try to produce it. .


You just said you're going to take it to market next week.


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## velodog (Sep 26, 2007)

Pitbull Pedal said:


> I don't really feel that we're ever going to try to produce it. Therefore I don't believe that we'll have any liability issues, we're just trying to find a company or investor that may want to purchase the patent or the rights to produce it, etc. This isn't a life and death issue with my friend and I, we're just having some fun.
> 
> I've added a picture of the pedals in the boxing that we're going to go with to try to market the pedal. It doesn't have the clear plastic lid on it though.


Those things remind me of James Bond's Aston Martin


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## No Time Toulouse (Sep 7, 2016)

velodog said:


> Those things remind me of James Bond's Aston Martin
> 
> View attachment 321992
> View attachment 321993


Not quite; he'd need the 3-bladed rotating knives...would probably get him banned from most pro events, though....


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## tihsepa (Nov 27, 2008)

Pitbull Pedal said:


> I don't really feel that we're ever going to try to produce it. Therefore I don't believe that we'll have any liability issues, we're just trying to find a company or investor that may want to purchase the patent or the rights to produce it, etc. This isn't a life and death issue with my friend and I, we're just having some fun.
> 
> I've added a picture of the pedals in the boxing that we're going to go with to try to market the pedal. It doesn't have the clear plastic lid on it though.


Those are goofy.


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## tomato coupe (Nov 8, 2009)

Pitbull Pedal said:


> As far as right now, we are not really planning on producing them ourselves. We'd like to find a company in the US and offer them either the patent or the rights to produce the item and just get some sort of small royalty check if possible. Not trying to get rich, just trying to have some fun.


The type of arrangement you're proposing rarely, if ever, gets off the ground. You will have a very difficult time finding a company that is willing to take on the risk of manufacturing your product, while you risk nothing up front. If you want to bring your pedals to market, you will almost certainly have to take a financial risk. No offense, but ideas like this are a dime-a-dozen.


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## GKSki (Nov 12, 2014)

Pitbull Pedal said:


> As far as watts go, I have to be honest that I don't have a watt meter on my bike. But one of my buddies who is a really strong sprinter I just text, he estimates my wattage on sprints to be around 375 watts. I would say he is a B+/A rider. I'm sorry but he didn't identify the length that I am going. He can hit upwards of 1500. In my opinion he is a beast. He does seem to get tired quicker, and I can come back around him if we have enough distance left to go.
> 
> I agree that the optimum bluntness is better, but there are so many variables in a crash. To dwell on that one particular variable doesn't seem fair. I have witnessed major cuts with the front exposed sprocket on the crank, it is like a serrated knife edge. That seems to be ok in everyone's mind though. Just saying.


Consider this. When racing riders are most often in the big ring. So guess what, the chain is covering that "serrated knife edge". Frankly I think you should redesign the outboard part of the spindle for safety sake. After all, it is the length of the spindle coming out of the crank arm that secures the pedal anyway, so why "finish with a point".


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## crit_boy (Aug 6, 2013)

Pitbull Pedal said:


> Our patent attorney told us that we probably did not even need to get patent pending on this new one as everything basically works the same. But he said just to be 100% safe we should get an additional patent on the new version.


YMMV, i slept at holiday inn last night, etc......

I'd find a new attorney. Your claims have at least three parts. Your current design has two. Your current system has no supplemental sole. Your patent does not cover your new system. 

So the real answer is you have a patent for a different spindle, cleat, supplemental sole, and optionally a shoe. You have filed an application for your current pedal and cleat.

Additionally, your cleat looks nothing like the cleat in the patent. Not sure that your patent covers you new cleat design. But, I did not dig into the claims all that much.


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## duriel (Oct 10, 2013)

GKSki said:


> "finish with a point".


On that point, I don't see what holds the shoe on the spindle. It looks like the shoe/cleat could move laterally and just slide right off the spindle. When I sprint all hell is breaking loose and I am not doing highly regulated rotations, it's more like push as hard as possible, worry where I'm going later.


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## tihsepa (Nov 27, 2008)

duriel said:


> On that point, I don't see what holds the shoe on the spindle. It looks like the shoe/cleat could move laterally and just slide right off the spindle. When I sprint all hell is breaking loose and I am not doing highly regulated rotations, it's more like push as hard as possible, worry where I'm going later.


I wouldnt worry about it. Its a sh!+ design and will likely never be seen outside of this thread.


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## No Time Toulouse (Sep 7, 2016)

As yet another engineer on the site, despite the reservations I have about the design itself, you should also look at the clipless road pedal business. Look started it (aside from earlier cleat-with-clip designs), and for them, being a large ski binding corporation, it was just a sideline at first. It sold very well, so much that today I'd bet it's at least 50% of their business. 

Time was almost exactly the same. Shimano at first just had Look make pedals for them, but later came up with the SPD system, which took away the walkability issues for many riders. Speedplay and a few others (Crank comes to mind) developed systems with simple pedals, but where the complexity of holding and float were contained in their cleats. These were expensive, often easy to damage and walk on, but satisfied the weight-weenies, and also made stealing the bike without cleated shoes even more difficult.

Your design most closely corresponds with Speedplays, but has none of the advantages. That other plastic-cleated model that was similar at least would appeal to the weight-weenies; I don't see where your design will appeal to ANY sub-community of the road cyclists. If you take it to a major cycling show, if you get zero interest (like I bet you will), you can probably take that as an omen. 

If, OTOH, you can find some guy who has money burning a hole in his pocket who wants to buy your patent, well, good luck to you. I'd bet that $20 invested in the Powerball lottery would be a wiser choice, though.


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## cxwrench (Nov 9, 2004)

No Time Toulouse said:


> As yet another engineer on the site, despite the reservations I have about the design itself, you should also look at the clipless road pedal business. Look started it (aside from earlier cleat-with-clip designs), and for them, being a large ski binding corporation, it was just a sideline at first. It sold very well, so much that today I'd bet it's at least 50% of their business.
> 
> Time was almost exactly the same. Shimano at first just had Look make pedals for them, but later came up with the SPD system, which took away the walkability issues for many riders. Speedplay and a few others (Crank comes to mind) developed systems with simple pedals, but where the complexity of holding and float were contained in their cleats. These were expensive, often easy to damage and walk on, but satisfied the weight-weenies, and also made stealing the bike without cleated shoes even more difficult.
> 
> ...


Repped. :thumbsup:


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## kiwisimon (Oct 30, 2002)

tihsepa said:


> I wouldnt worry about it. Its a sh!+ design and will likely never be seen outside of this thread.


Bit harsh. It works for the creators so it's not that sh!t. It has been seen on youtube nearly 600 times so who knows.


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## Steve B. (Jun 26, 2004)

5 pages and 100 posts later and it still begs the question, what is this design improving on ?. The answer is still, nothing.

There are so many other better choices, there literally currently exists a design for every need, walkability, weight, secure in sprint, wide platform for foot support, you name it and something else exists. This then becomes a fix for a problem that doesn’t exist.

And quite frankly the design of a round shaft sticking out from the crank is just dangerous.


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## factory feel (Nov 27, 2009)

Steve B. said:


> And quite frankly the design of a round shaft sticking out from the crank is just dangerous.


that's what she said...


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## Pitbull Pedal (Feb 19, 2018)

velodog said:


> Those things remind me of James Bond's Aston Martin


That sure turned out to be famous! Haha




tihsepa said:


> Those are goofy.


Valid opinion for yourself.




tomato coupe said:


> The type of arrangement you're proposing rarely, if ever, gets off the ground. You will have a very difficult time finding a company that is willing to take on the risk of manufacturing your product, while you risk nothing up front. If you want to bring your pedals to market, you will almost certainly have to take a financial risk. No offense, but ideas like this are a dime-a-dozen.


You are probably right, but the funny thing is that the person that invented the hula hoop, pet rocks, other silly items and they took off. We can only keep our fingers crossed.




GKSki said:


> Consider this. When racing riders are most often in the big ring. So guess what, the chain is covering that "serrated knife edge". Frankly I think you should redesign the outboard part of the spindle for safety sake. After all, it is the length of the spindle coming out of the crank arm that secures the pedal anyway, so why "finish with a point".


Agreed that when the chain is in the big ring the sprocket is covered. Therefore it seems like all professional riders should be riding with one large gear only and eliminate the small ring. The small gear has to be used some of the times, therefore if you wreck the big gear is exposed.




crit_boy said:


> YMMV, i slept at holiday inn last night, etc......
> 
> I'd find a new attorney. Your claims have at least three parts. Your current design has two. Your current system has no supplemental sole. Your patent does not cover your new system.
> 
> ...


I can only tell you that I'd have to trust my patent attorney, we do have the original patent that you're able to look at. Our attorney mentioned that he felt a lot of the parts were similar, but to be 100% protected we should file for a new patent on this particular pedal. That is why I'm stating that we have patent pending on this model.




duriel said:


> On that point, I don't see what holds the shoe on the spindle. It looks like the shoe/cleat could move laterally and just slide right off the spindle. When I sprint all hell is breaking loose and I am not doing highly regulated rotations, it's more like push as hard as possible, worry where I'm going later.


I don't know if you saw the video in the opening post, it shows me hanging a 25lb weight laterally off of the shaft. I cannot explain how it holds it so well, I can only show that it does. As far as when you are pushing hard, you are literally pushing the spindle deeper into the cup of the pedal where there is no chance of slippage in that rotation. The only slippage that you could possibly have is in the pull stroke. Up to date, with all of our testing, nothing has slipped.




tihsepa said:


> I wouldnt worry about it. Its a sh!+ design and will likely never be seen outside of this thread.


Haters gonna hate, you have a personally valid opinion and don't like the design. I would hope that other people would love the simplicity of it and how well it works.




No Time Toulouse said:


> As yet another engineer on the site, despite the reservations I have about the design itself, you should also look at the clipless road pedal business. Look started it (aside from earlier cleat-with-clip designs), and for them, being a large ski binding corporation, it was just a sideline at first. It sold very well, so much that today I'd bet it's at least 50% of their business.
> 
> Time was almost exactly the same. Shimano at first just had Look make pedals for them, but later came up with the SPD system, which took away the walkability issues for many riders. Speedplay and a few others (Crank comes to mind) developed systems with simple pedals, but where the complexity of holding and float were contained in their cleats. These were expensive, often easy to damage and walk on, but satisfied the weight-weenies, and also made stealing the bike without cleated shoes even more difficult.
> 
> ...


Just trying to give it a shot. No harm no foul if it doesn't work.


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## GKSki (Nov 12, 2014)

I'm out. Sorry I wasted my time with this.


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## tlg (May 11, 2011)

Pitbull Pedal said:


> You are probably right, but the funny thing is that the person that invented the hula hoop, pet rocks, other silly items and they took off.


Bad analogy. There wasn't already multiple designs of the hula hoop and pet rocks. Try re-inventing the hula hoop... see how that works out. 




> I don't know if you saw the video in the opening post, it shows me hanging a 25lb weight laterally off of the shaft. I cannot explain how it holds it so well, I can only show that it does. As far as when you are pushing hard, you are literally pushing the spindle deeper into the cup of the pedal where there is no chance of slippage in that rotation. The only slippage that you could possibly have is in the pull stroke.


And again... hanging a static weight (gently) proves absolutely ZERO. 

When you are sprinting, you aren't just pushing. Your feet are pushing, pulling, twisting. As well as the bike is rocking side to side. There are MANY more force directions applied. 



> Up to date, with all of our testing, nothing has slipped.


Show your tests. Do you have actual test data? 
Until you get someone repeatedly sprinting at 800-1000w, your 25lb weight is meaningless.


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## Pitbull Pedal (Feb 19, 2018)

Earlier in the thread I had said that my buddy was a B+/A rider. He can have a short burst, and hit nearly 1500W according to his Garmin. I'll make a video with him making a hit on his bike. Changing shoes, and doing the same on my bike. We'll see what happens. I believe that should help convince people, or convince me if he comes flying out of it.


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## Pitbull Pedal (Feb 19, 2018)

Hey everyone, my friend finally had some time to meet me and make a quick video. Like I had said, he really is a powerful rider. So we simply put him on his own bike, let him go hard, switch out the shoes and use my bike, and then ride hard again. His wattage should be the same. As you can see the wattage on his Garmin, he also sent me a screenshot of it by email which is included.

https://youtu.be/d5jZpDwRh_8 This is the video


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## factory feel (Nov 27, 2009)

man that was lame.

and who sprints seated??


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## Pitbull Pedal (Feb 19, 2018)

Damn, that didn't take long. A lot of people had talked about holding 800w, this clearly shows him holding a minimum of 1200, I guess while sitting. Which would indicate that he is a pretty strong rider. I guess if everyone agrees with you, I'll have to make another with him out of the seat hitting a much higher wattage. I hope this at least proves something to everyone though.


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## tlg (May 11, 2011)

Pitbull Pedal said:


> Hey everyone, my friend finally had some time to meet me and make a quick video. Like I had said, he really is a powerful rider. So we simply put him on his own bike, let him go hard, switch out the shoes and use my bike, and then ride hard again. His wattage should be the same. As you can see the wattage on his Garmin, he also sent me a screenshot of it by email which is included.
> 
> https://youtu.be/d5jZpDwRh_8 This is the video
> 
> View attachment 322032


LMFAO. That is NOT sprinting!!! Not remotely close


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## tlg (May 11, 2011)

Pitbull Pedal said:


> Damn, that didn't take long. A lot of people had talked about holding 800w, this clearly shows him holding a minimum of 1200, I guess while sitting. Which would indicate that he is a pretty strong rider. I guess if everyone agrees with you, I'll have to make another with him out of the seat hitting a much higher wattage. I hope this at least proves something to everyone though.


That proves absolutely nothing


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## Z'mer (Oct 28, 2013)

Didn't look to me like he had an easy time clipping in. He fumbled on the right, then showed hesitancy on the left before pedaling. 
Also, "holding a power" is different than "maximum". This guy was putting out 257 W over 30 sec. And that form looked more like poseur than pro. Ask him to hold 30+ mph for for 5-10 minutes on those pedals, show us those results.


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## Pitbull Pedal (Feb 19, 2018)

tlg said:


> That proves absolutely nothing


It does absolutely prove something, just not what you wanted to see. Believe me, that Roger is a B+ at the minimum rider. As far as sprinting goes, the best cyclists in the world I do believe are only sprinting for 2-300 meters at best. I even agree that this might not of been the best video, I'll try and make another one soon to show actual sprinting for a few hundred meters. I could make it myself except I don't have a power meter. I am just a little slower in the sprints than Roger.



Z'mer said:


> Didn't look to me like he had an easy time clipping in. He fumbled on the right, then showed hesitancy on the left before pedaling.
> Also, "holding a power" is different than "maximum". This guy was putting out 257 W over 30 sec. And that form looked more like poseur than pro. Ask him to hold 30+ mph for for 5-10 minutes on those pedals, show us those results.


Maybe it did look that way in the video to you, this was the first time that he'd ever sat on my bike with these pedals. When he was helping me out, unfortunately we were not trying to show the in and out feature of the pedal, we were just trying to show that it would hold a lot of wattage.


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## Pitbull Pedal (Feb 19, 2018)

https://youtu.be/_I4RvKvsBXo Here is an old video, almost exactly 2 years ago. We both have improved drastically over the last few years. But this is me at the horrible 100, on Sugarloaf after an 80 mile warm up haha.


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## tlg (May 11, 2011)

Z'mer said:


> Didn't look to me like he had an easy time clipping in. He fumbled on the right, then showed hesitancy on the left before pedaling.
> Also, "holding a power" is different than "maximum".


Surely doesn't look like the easiest pedals in the world to clip into.



> This guy was putting out 257 W over 30 sec. And that form looked more like poseur than pro.


 257w for 30sec.... no all that impressive. My 90lb wife can do that.
And a max of 1300w. Likely just a spike for a few milliseconds.




Pitbull Pedal said:


> It does absolutely prove something, just not what you wanted to see.


What exactly do you think it proves? Other than your pedals work seated while spinning?



> As far as sprinting goes, the best cyclists in the world I do believe are only sprinting for 2-300 meters at best.


The distance is irrelevant. 

This is what a sprint looks like. I thought it was commonly known. If you're not out of the saddle and rocking the bike... you're not sprinting.
(I have a feeling you're not showing a video doing such because your cleat will slide right off the spindle. That's why you keep showing easy seated spinning)


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## No Time Toulouse (Sep 7, 2016)

Pitbull Pedal said:


> .................
> The only slippage that you could possibly have is in the pull stroke.
> .......


Ummmmm........that's kinda the reason why we use clipped or clipless pedals. If yours will slip in the pull stroke, it's useless.

FWIW, I work with machinists. They ain't designers. This design might've sold in 1978, but not today.

I've said my last on this hare-brained idea. It'll be forgotten in a month, and consigned to the museum of broken dreams..


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## tomato coupe (Nov 8, 2009)

Pitbull Pedal said:


> Hey everyone, my friend finally had some time to meet me and make a quick video. Like I had said, he really is a powerful rider. So we simply put him on his own bike, let him go hard, switch out the shoes and use my bike, and then ride hard again. His wattage should be the same. As you can see the wattage on his Garmin, he also sent me a screenshot of it by email which is included.
> 
> https://youtu.be/d5jZpDwRh_8 This is the video
> 
> View attachment 322032


Power is not the important parameter if you're concerned about accidentally unclipping from the pedals. Torque is the relevant parameter, and spinning while seated (generally) does not create as much torque as sprinting out of the saddle.


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## tomato coupe (Nov 8, 2009)

> The type of arrangement you're proposing rarely, if ever, gets off the ground. You will have a very difficult time finding a company that is willing to take on the risk of manufacturing your product, while you risk nothing up front. If you want to bring your pedals to market, you will almost certainly have to take a financial risk. No offense, but ideas like this are a dime-a-dozen.





Pitbull Pedal said:


> You are probably right, but the funny thing is that the person that invented the hula hoop, pet rocks, other silly items and they took off. We can only keep our fingers crossed.


You're missing the point. It's not about whether or not the product might take off, it's whether or not someone else wants to assume all the financial risk for you. Trust me, you will be searching a very long time for a manufacturer who is interested in such an arrangement.


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## kiwisimon (Oct 30, 2002)

Mike, get Roger to (a) ride on the big ring and try to get over 35mph from about 20mph in as few a seconds as possible. He should be cooked and need a good few minutes of recovery after a decent sprint. Don't worry about the control ride, just try it with the pedals you want to show off. Oh and he can no way exert max power in (a) the small chainring (b) seated. Good luck Roger!


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## TmB123 (Feb 8, 2013)

Pitbull Pedal said:


> . His wattage should be the same. As you can see the wattage on his Garmin, he also sent me a screenshot of it by email which is included.
> 
> https://youtu.be/d5jZpDwRh_8 This is the video
> 
> View attachment 322032


Next time put the pedals on HIS bike so you can show the wattage.

That's some impressive watts while seated, what kind of PM does your friend have?

i know in an all out, out of the seat, cross eyed sprint I can hit 1300-1400 watts, but only about half that when seated.


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## TmB123 (Feb 8, 2013)

Z'mer said:


> This guy was putting out 257 W over 30 sec.


unlikely, assume that is just the average - he was only on the bike for about 30sec and most of that was rolling up and down the street. Was on the power for all of maybe 5 seconds/ 10-12 pedal strokes


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## Pitbull Pedal (Feb 19, 2018)

tlg said:


> Surely doesn't look like the easiest pedals in the world to clip into.
> 257w for 30sec.... no all that impressive. My 90lb wife can do that.
> And a max of 1300w. Likely just a spike for a few milliseconds.
> What exactly do you think it proves? Other than your pedals work seated while spinning?
> ...


First of all I agree 100%, the video that I made was just trying to show high wattage which we did achieve. When I tell you that Roger is a hell of a sprinter he truly is. We're going to make another video with him and I coming around the corner and both of us in a full sprint for 2 or 3 hundred meters. If I were to make the sprint a little longer I would have an opportunity to catch back up to Roger maybe, and come around him at the end. I seem to have a little more stamina than he does, but for a few hundred meters the guy is a beast. He comes around me with no problem, even if I take the hit. I don't know what it means in wattage, if he is producing 50/75/100 watts more than I am, but whatever it is he can come around me relatively easy.





No Time Toulouse said:


> Ummmmm........that's kinda the reason why we use clipped or clipless pedals. If yours will slip in the pull stroke, it's useless.
> FWIW, I work with machinists. They ain't designers. This design might've sold in 1978, but not today.
> I've said my last on this hare-brained idea. It'll be forgotten in a month, and consigned to the museum of broken dreams..


Like I have said before, the pedals hold during a sprint. I appreciate your input, thanks for it all. If you don't want to speak anymore on this thread its fine, but try and check it out for a while as I want to keep posting until I can get my point across. Also even if you were right, maybe this pedal would be for newbies, who want to go from a flat pedal to a clip in pedal and work their way up into the massive sprints that you're talking about.




tomato coupe said:


> Power is not the important parameter if you're concerned about accidentally unclipping from the pedals. Torque is the relevant parameter, and spinning while seated (generally) does not create as much torque as sprinting out of the saddle.


Agreed, next video Roger and I will both be out the saddle in a full sprint. From the prior video you could see that Roger can produce nearly 1300W just sitting down and spinning for a few hundred meters.




tomato coupe said:


> You're missing the point. It's not about whether or not the product might take off, it's whether or not someone else wants to assume all the financial risk for you. Trust me, you will be searching a very long time for a manufacturer who is interested in such an arrangement.


Agreed, all new ideas are 1 in a million. But just trying to get that 1 in a million shot. We know how well the pedal works, not necessarily trying to get rich off of it. Just a couple of old bucks having a good time.



kiwisimon said:


> Mike, get Roger to (a) ride on the big ring and try to get over 35mph from about 20mph in as few a seconds as possible. He should be cooked and need a good few minutes of recovery after a decent sprint. Don't worry about the control ride, just try it with the pedals you want to show off. Oh and he can no way exert max power in (a) the small chainring (b) seated. Good luck Roger!


Sounds good, and thanks for the input. The next video that Roger and I will make with have us both in a full sprint, out of the saddle, in the same gears. I hope it shows up well that we're out of the saddle in the video, but I can promise you that we will both be in an all out race/sprint. We're both super competitive and don't want to get beat, especially in a video.




TmB123 said:


> Next time put the pedals on HIS bike so you can show the wattage.
> That's some impressive watts while seated, what kind of PM does your friend have?
> i know in an all out, out of the seat, cross eyed sprint I can hit 1300-1400 watts, but only about half that when seated.


Unfortunately I do not know what power meter he has, I know he just about has everything that is the best on his Trek Madone. In the video as you can see, he hit almost 1300W while seated. The video makes it look like was only going for 50 yards, he was actually 2 or 3 hundred yards away coming toward the camera. The dude is strong!




TmB123 said:


> unlikely, assume that is just the average - he was only on the bike for about 30sec and most of that was rolling up and down the street. Was on the power for all of maybe 5 seconds/ 10-12 pedal strokes


Agreed, the video made it look like a much shorter distance than it really was. I can only say again, that if it doesn't slip at 1300W it should stay on at 1300W continually, and nobody is going to be doing that for more than a few hundred meters and they are the best of the best.


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## Pitbull Pedal (Feb 19, 2018)

https://youtu.be/LqoMtQOZn68
Like I said in the video above, we have many samples of different pedals that we had created to end up with what we think is the best one. So we took one of the ones that we had and we were able to cut 5 degree angles into the cleat. That created the float that everyone seems to want. Frank and I both like it with zero float, as it just makes you feel like you're part of the bike. I rode with float pedal on my right foot yesterday for about 25mi. I had no issues at all, I actually even did some sprinting believe it or not, and had no issues. I hope this helps in some way.


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## siclmn (Feb 7, 2004)

I had pedals just like those 20 years ago. They were called Aerolite pedals. They were the lightest pedals in existence. The cleat was different though. The only thing I didn't like was the fact that they had no float and you say yours don't either. That kills it for me.﻿


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## tomato coupe (Nov 8, 2009)

Pitbull Pedal said:


> The video makes it look like was only going for 50 yards, he was actually 2 or 3 hundred yards away coming toward the camera. The dude is strong!


Okay, you've crossed into the territory of ludicrous. It's clear from the video that it only takes about 4 seconds for your friend to pass the camera after he starts "sprinting." If he had covered 200-300 yds in that 4 seconds, he would have an average speed of 100-150 mph. Also, he is on his small chain ring and completes fewer than 10 full revolutions of the pedals, so he would, at best, cover 25-30 yds. during his sprint.


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## tlg (May 11, 2011)

OMG... he was "sprinting" in the small chainring. Bwahahahahaha!! 




tomato coupe said:


> Okay, you've crossed into the territory of ludicrous. It's clear from the video that it only takes about 4 seconds for your friend to pass the camera after he starts "sprinting." If he had covered 200-300 yds in that 4 seconds, he would have an average speed of 100-150 mph. Also, he is on his small chain ring and completes fewer than 10 full revolutions of the pedals, so he would, at best, cover 25-30 yds. during his sprint.


I counted 10 revolutions.
Assuming a 39T small chainring: Best case scenario with an 11T cog = 7.4 Meters Development. About 74 meters / 80 yards.

But it looks like he's more in the middle of the cassette, so maybe a 16T. Which is 5.1 Meters Development. About 51 meters / 55 yards.


If we assume 200yrds and I counted 5 seconds. That's 480ft/s.... or 327mph. HOLY S#!T.... the dude is strong.
If it was 300 yards.... 490mph.


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## tomato coupe (Nov 8, 2009)

tlg said:


> Assuming a 39T small chainring: Best case scenario with an 11T cog = 7.4 Meters Development. About 74 meters / 80 yards.


Yes. (I forgot my pi.)



> If we assume 200yrds and I counted 5 seconds. That's 480ft/s.... or 327mph. HOLY S#!T.... the dude is strong.
> If it was 300 yards.... 490mph.


I think you're x4 too high. Either way, crazy speeds.


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## tlg (May 11, 2011)

tomato coupe said:


> I think you're x4 too high. Either way, crazy speeds.


Oops. right. 200rds/5sec = 120ft/s = 81mph.

Ok, it's not ludicrous. Roger just has crazy speed.


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## Pitbull Pedal (Feb 19, 2018)

siclmn said:


> I had pedals just like those 20 years ago. They were called Aerolite pedals. They were the lightest pedals in existence. The cleat was different though. The only thing I didn't like was the fact that they had no float and you say yours don't either. That kills it for me.﻿


I had just posted a video of one with 5 degrees of float, which I personally don't like but it is easy to achieve.


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## Pitbull Pedal (Feb 19, 2018)

tomato coupe said:


> Okay, you've crossed into the territory of ludicrous. It's clear from the video that it only takes about 4 seconds for your friend to pass the camera after he starts "sprinting." If he had covered 200-300 yds in that 4 seconds, he would have an average speed of 100-150 mph. Also, he is on his small chain ring and completes fewer than 10 full revolutions of the pedals, so he would, at best, cover 25-30 yds. during his sprint.


I never did all the math on it, I just know he rode up the street, made a U-turn and came back. The next video with Roger and I will both be in a full sprint, in the same gear, and I'll step off 300 yards minimum.




tlg said:


> OMG... he was "sprinting" in the small chainring. Bwahahahahaha!!
> 
> 
> I counted 10 revolutions.
> ...


I'm super impressed with your calculations, I really never went to that extreme like I said above. He just went up the street made a U-turn at a given point, I just held the camera and shot the video. The total mistake I made, was just unfortunately that I was showing watts and not in a sprint. We'll have an all out sprint, hopefully the camera will capture what you need to see.




tlg said:


> Oops. right. 200rds/5sec = 120ft/s = 81mph.
> 
> Ok, it's not ludicrous. Roger just has crazy speed.


Sorry for the mass confusion, I guesstimated the distance as I was looking through the camera. Next time I'll get it stepped off 300yrds. We'll both sprint in the same gear, etc.


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## tlg (May 11, 2011)

Pitbull Pedal said:


> Sorry for the mass confusion, I guesstimated the distance as I was looking through the camera. Next time I'll get it stepped off 300yrds. We'll both sprint in the same gear, etc.


Stop obsessing on distance. It's IRRELEVANT. Most people aren't going to go all out for 300yrds.

Standing all out sprint is all that matters.


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## crit_boy (Aug 6, 2013)

I am having a really hard time believing that seated small chain ring "effort" was anywhere near 1300 watts.


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## Pitbull Pedal (Feb 19, 2018)

First of all I still appreciate everyone's input. Other people have mentioned that they had wanted longer distances, you personally want to see just out of the saddle all out sprint for any distance, just trying to do my best to show what I can about the pedals. Honestly, they do work very well. If you are some sort of erratic rider and you have a tendency to wiggle your heels when you are sprinting, then these pedals may not work for you as they're meant to come out when you cock your heel outward. We do not seem to have a problem with it.


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## Pitbull Pedal (Feb 19, 2018)

crit_boy said:


> I am having a really hard time believing that seated small chain ring "effort" was anywhere near 1300 watts.


All that I can tell you is he zero'd everything out before we started it. He simply went up the street slowly, turned around and hammered it coming back, and the results posted are what his Garmin read.


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## SwiftSolo (Jun 7, 2008)

Pitbull Pedal said:


> Hey everyone. I just wanted to gather some opinions on this new bike pedal that we've come up with. I have a couple videos attached to show everyone how good it works. Just like everyone, I'm just trying to come up with a better product, this one just happens to be a bike pedal. As I would frequently miss clipping into my other pedals while riding in a group, with this you're gonna get in virtually 100% of the time. Let me know what everyone thinks, please don't judge too harshly. I'm not sure if there was a different areas that I should of posted this.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I am the first to applaud innovation. With some modification this could have some application in certain kinds of racing--possibly.

Consider that it would be a very small market in a small part of cycling. Further consider, that most non poseurs use mountain bike shoes on both of their bikes (road and mtb) because they ride in places where being able to walk or hike-a-bike is important. Also, you may want to grab some food at a restaurant on the top of a pass in much of Europe.

With carbon soles, hot spots that were caused by pedals such as egg beaters are a thing of the past. MTB pedals are lighter, the shoes more functional, and you won't piss off the propriator of stores and restaurants. The shoes are a bit heavier. 

Don't feel discouraged, even shimanos road cleats are short lived crap.


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## tlg (May 11, 2011)

Pitbull Pedal said:


> All that I can tell you is he zero'd everything out before we started it. He simply went up the street slowly, turned around and hammered it coming back, and the results posted are what his Garmin read.


Show his Garmin data. I bet it looks like this. Which would make 1300w meaningless.


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## tomato coupe (Nov 8, 2009)

Pitbull Pedal said:


> All that I can tell you is he zero'd everything out before we started it. He simply went up the street slowly, turned around and hammered it coming back, and the results posted are what his Garmin read.


I am also a bit leery of your friend's data. If he can sprint at 1500 W (as he claims), he could out sprint a lot of professional riders. As a reference point, here is data from Andre Greipel's winning sprint in Stage 6 of the Tour Down Under:


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## Pitbull Pedal (Feb 19, 2018)

tomato coupe said:


> I am also a bit leery of your friend's data. If he can sprint at 1500 W (as he claims), he could out sprint a lot of professional riders. As a reference point, here is data from Andre Greipel's winning sprint in Stage 6 of the Tour Down Under:
> 
> View attachment 322048


As far as Roger, I can only see what comes up on his Garmin. I'm going to make 1 more video with him and I sprinting out of the saddle, hopefully the camera will show this well. But I have seen his Garmin in the 14-1500 range when he sprints. It is just a max effort and then he slows down. I don't believe that he could hold that many watts for hundreds of meters. Next video should be a good clean video.


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## cxwrench (Nov 9, 2004)

Pitbull Pedal said:


> As far as Roger, I can only see what comes up on his Garmin. I'm going to make 1 more video with him and I sprinting out of the saddle, hopefully the camera will show this well. But I have seen his Garmin in the 14-1500 range when he sprints. It is just a max effort and then he slows down. I don't believe that he could hold that many watts for hundreds of meters. Next video should be a good clean video.


The big difference is your friend is accelerating from a very slow speed and once he reaches his 'sprint' speed he backs off. A pro sprinter will be producing roughly those watts but from 35mph and they'll be hitting low-mid 40's and holding it for a couple hundred meters.


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## factory feel (Nov 27, 2009)

cxwrench said:


> The big difference is your friend is accelerating from a very slow speed and once he reaches his 'sprint' speed he backs off. A pro sprinter will be producing roughly those watts but from 35mph and they'll be hitting low-mid 40's and holding it for a couple hundred meters.


Can’t really blame roger, he surely doesn’t want to do a real sprint and slip off that protruding rod and get badly injured. 

This is getting silly and dangerous!


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## tlg (May 11, 2011)

Pitbull Pedal said:


> If you are some sort of erratic rider and you have a tendency to wiggle your heels when you are sprinting, then these pedals may not work for you as* they're meant to come out when you cock your heel outward*.


That's how all pedals work.

But the difference is other pedals have a physical lock to prevent lateral movement of your foot. Yours does not. You don't have to be an erratic rider to produce side forces. Everybody does it.

You already showed in your video that your cleat only holds 25lbs (gently). And claim in your video "_there's no way you're going to create any kind of outward pressure to make that slip off_". Well physics disagrees with you. 
A 200lb rider standing on a pedal, while rocking the bike 20° will produce a lateral force of 68lbs. 68lbs is significantly higher than 25lbs.


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## Pitbull Pedal (Feb 19, 2018)

This is amazing. I love how smart you appear to be, to work all of this out with the math is truly cool. We'll see what happens when we do a long sprint at max power.


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## tihsepa (Nov 27, 2008)

Pitbull Pedal said:


> This is amazing. I love how smart you appear to be, to work all of this out with the math is truly cool. We'll see what happens when we do a long sprint at max power.


Well............ do it then.


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## cxwrench (Nov 9, 2004)

Pitbull Pedal said:


> This is amazing. I love how smart you appear to be, to work all of this out with the math is truly cool. We'll see what happens when we do a long sprint at max power.


Look...you come here and post about your 'next big thing'. You want to know what people think. You get what ends up at this point being a 144 post thread, w/ a lot of people giving their opinion, most end up being negative. Lots of reasons why. Then tlg shows up w/ some actual numbers that show you're going to have a problem and your 'numbers' don't really work in the real world. And you get pissy. What a great comeback: 

"I love how smart you appear to be, to work all of this out with the math is truly cool". 

Get a clue, they don't call them The Laws of Physics for nothing.


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## tlg (May 11, 2011)

Pitbull Pedal said:


> This is amazing. I love how smart you appear to be, to work all of this out with the math is truly cool. We'll see what happens when we do a long sprint at max power.


Thanks, I do think I'm pretty smart, but that.... that's literally 9th grade algebra.


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## ogre (Dec 16, 2005)

tlg said:


> Thanks, I do think I'm pretty smart, but that.... that's literally 9th grade algebra.


Actually, I think it's tenth grade trigonometry.


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## tlg (May 11, 2011)

ogre said:


> Actually, I think it's tenth grade trigonometry.


Could be. Could also be covered in physical science or physics or calculus. I thing Geometry too. 

But definitely algebra. 
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vector_algebra


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## QuiQuaeQuod (Jan 24, 2003)

Pitbull Pedal said:


> I just wanted to gather some opinions on this new bike pedal that we've come up with.


I am soooooo glad you did not JUST gather opinions. That would have been far less amusing. :thumbsup:


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## Pitbull Pedal (Feb 19, 2018)

I tried to listen to everyone, gather their opinion and try to answer the best that I could. I'm going to hold off for a while until I can get Roger and I to make the sprint video and see what happens after that.


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## Pitbull Pedal (Feb 19, 2018)

Here we go again, because of everyone's responses we have made a slight improvement on the end of the pedal. It serves 2 functions. NOT that we ever had a problem with the pedal slipping at all, but we've put a stop on the end of it. Now there is no possible way for your foot to slide off going left or right. Rodger and I made a good video of us sprinting hard together, he beat me again. It should show sprinting hard with our pedal. Secondary, it is more blunted which should give less chance of an injury happening during a crash.


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## Pitbull Pedal (Feb 19, 2018)

Roger swung by and we downloaded the sprint video to get it onto Youtube. We were out of the seat sprinting before my partner Frank had started the video. We are 100% out of the saddle sprinting as fast as we can possibly go. Here is the video https://youtu.be/vNFKi8yif2w


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## cxwrench (Nov 9, 2004)

Pitbull Pedal said:


> Roger swung by and we downloaded the sprint video to get it onto Youtube. We were out of the seat sprinting before my partner Frank had started the video. We are 100% out of the saddle sprinting as fast as we can possibly go. Here is the video https://youtu.be/vNFKi8yif2w


So that was what...100m? You guys really need to put some fast local racers on those pedals (if they'll agree to ride them) and see what they think. Judging by what has happened w/ any pedal similar to this in the past you're just wasting time and money.


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## tlg (May 11, 2011)

Pitbull Pedal said:


> Here we go again, because of everyone's responses we have made a slight improvement
> 
> but we've put a stop on the end of it.


Looks like it'd help a bit. But I think you have too much of a bulbous head on it that serves no purpose. It could be more streamlined.










Pitbull Pedal said:


> Roger swung by and we downloaded the sprint video to get it onto Youtube. We were out of the seat sprinting before my partner Frank had started the video. We are 100% out of the saddle sprinting as fast as we can possibly go. Here is the video https://youtu.be/vNFKi8yif2w


Not sure what that video is supposed to show other than more spinning while trying to keep the bike upright.

Clearly you guys don't get sprinting. Go find some local racers at the LBS.


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## Pitbull Pedal (Feb 19, 2018)

cxwrench said:


> So that was what...100m? You guys really need to put some fast local racers on those pedals (if they'll agree to ride them) and see what they think. Judging by what has happened w/ any pedal similar to this in the past you're just wasting time and money.


As far as 100m, the sprint was much longer than that, Frank did not start recording until we looked big enough to see in the screen of the phone. Roger would be one of those sprinters that you would be talking about. Granted he is not on a tour-de-france team but the guy can sprint like a maniac. As far as other pedals go, its just fun trying to do something a little different.





tlg said:


> Looks like it'd help a bit. But I think you have too much of a bulbous head on it that serves no purpose. It could be more streamlined.
> 
> Not sure what that video is supposed to show other than more spinning while trying to keep the bike upright.
> 
> Clearly you guys don't get sprinting. Go find some local racers at the LBS.


Appreciate the input on the design, instead of making completely new pedals we added the end to one of ours. We simply put it on a lathe and turned it to the right dimension and press fit a dowel through it. The design could be more like the one you had, as long as it made a positive stop which would eliminate any fears of your foot sliding off left or right. As far as sprinting again, I think that the videos especially this last one, is just not showing the effort that we're putting out in these sprints. Like I had said about Roger, he is like a freak in sprinting. Given some distance, usually he will fade and I'll come back around him. But his sprints are ridiculous. We will see if we can find a local rider as we do ride with some of the local bike shops in the area.


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## Pitbull Pedal (Feb 19, 2018)

*IF* the pedal was to work exactly like I am stating, and it is much easier to get into 100% of the time as there is nothing to line up. Do you all think that it is a good pedal, if it works as I am stating?


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## velodog (Sep 26, 2007)

Pitbull Pedal said:


> *IF* the pedal was to work exactly like I am stating, and it is much easier to get into 100% of the time as there is nothing to line up. Do you all think that it is a good pedal, if it works as I am stating?


No. I don't like the idea a of a bare spindle sticking out 90deg from my crankarm. I wouldn't ride without bar plugs either.


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## GearDaddy (Apr 1, 2004)

Pitbull Pedal said:


> *IF* the pedal was to work exactly like I am stating, and it is much easier to get into 100% of the time as there is nothing to line up. Do you all think that it is a good pedal, if it works as I am stating?


I've stayed out of the discussion on this, but since you're asking.... I would say no, for the following reasons:

1) I don't see the need for another pedal system that is supposedly "easier" to engage. There are a bunch of different offerings already that claim easy engagement, and it's already a muddy argument as to what makes it easier/harder for engagement and disengagement. This pedal is not clearly better than other existing offerings.
2) I simply don't buy your claims that it won't disengage too easily. Show some non-biased riders doing a flying 200 on the track and giving a testimonial that they're confident that they won't release unintentionally, or something like that.
3) They still have other features/problems that I don't like in some other pedal designs, like they are heavy, lack of tension adjustability/float, and the cleats are not "walkable".

We all have our preferences in pedal systems for different reasons. I'm still liking my Ritchey Logics (https://ritcheylogic.com/wcs-micro-road-pedal). Lightweight, reliable, easy engagement (IMO), no inadvertent disengagement (I've actually even used them on the track), walkable cleat, interchangeable cleat/shoe on MTB double-sided version of pedal as well. To me these are still better than Eggbeater/Candy, Speedplay, and other systems. But that's just me...


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## shermes (Jul 26, 2008)

Pitbull Pedal said:


> *IF* the pedal was to work exactly like I am stating, and it is much easier to get into 100% of the time as there is nothing to line up. Do you all think that it is a good pedal, if it works as I am stating?


I think the pedals are amazing, the only thing more amazing is watching Roger sprint, love that guy! Chase your dreams! #RogeristhegreatestsprinterIhaveeverseen


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## Methodical (Jul 21, 2012)

Good luck Pitbull. Keep at it.


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## Pitbull Pedal (Feb 19, 2018)

shermes said:


> I think the pedals are amazing, the only thing more amazing is watching Roger sprint, love that guy! Chase your dreams! #RogeristhegreatestsprinterIhaveeverseen


I can only assume you're having some fun, which we are also. Roger may not be a Tour-De-France wining sprinter, but rest assured the guy is stupid fast. That is according to the local bike shops that we ride with as well.


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## factory feel (Nov 27, 2009)

Pitbull Pedal said:


> I can only assume you're having some fun, which we are also. Roger may not be a Tour-De-France wining sprinter, but rest assured the guy is stupid fast. That is according to the local bike shops that we ride with as well.


bike shops will say what you want to hear to sell bikes.


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## Pitbull Pedal (Feb 19, 2018)

I understand, but he physically beats them. They are all much stronger and can outlast him, but during the sprint, he is fast. What more can I say.


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## No Time Toulouse (Sep 7, 2016)

View attachment 322210


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## Pitbull Pedal (Feb 19, 2018)

Your attachment did not work


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## Pitbull Pedal (Feb 19, 2018)

A little bit of good news, based off the opinion of a few people we have decided to reshape the pedal. We've rounded off the outside which is much more blunt, which should eliminate the chance of penetration in a crash. On the inside we're going to incorporate the carbon fiber guide washer into the metal housing and eliminate the separate carbon washer completely. That way the pedal will be 1 piece with no separate washers/c-clips/etc. giving it a much cleaner look. The few grams of weight I don't even want to talk about!

On a real good note, we have a national company (Gear Junkie) who is going to test our pedal out and give us an objective opinion which should make everyone happy, including ourselves, unless they tell us that it is no good. Which I cannot see happening. Below is a drawing of the final shape.


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## BubbaGump (Feb 17, 2015)

You have a large and diverse audience here in this forum. Why don't you whip up a few dozen sets, get some volunteers from here, and let us try them out for ourselves? I'm willing to try them out and report back my opinions. 

Sent from my Moto Z (2) using Tapatalk


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## dombey19 (Oct 2, 2008)

I have followed this thread off and on from its beginning. I don't think the OP really wants the opinion of this group. He said he did when he first posted, but the responses of the group were not impressive. Some of the replies pointed out flaws, some were skeptical, some noted other pedals that were roughly similar. In each case the negative responses were deflected and "explained away." I saw no really enthusiastic positive reactions. No one was blown away; no one was impressed. So now he is going elsewhere to find "an objective opinion," meaning that this forum's opinion was not really the "objective opinion" he was seeking. Yet here is a diverse group of enthusiastic cyclists, experienced riders who have by and large "tried everything," and are knowledgeable about mechanical issues. He asked the for the forum's opinion, he got that opinion in an extensive exchange, and he didn't like that opinion. So now he is going to find someone who will give him the "objective" opinion he wants---unless, in his own words, "they tell us it is no good."


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## cxwrench (Nov 9, 2004)

dombey19 said:


> I have followed this thread off and on from its beginning. I don't think the OP really wants the opinion of this group. He said he did when he first posted, but the responses of the group were not impressive. Some of the replies pointed out flaws, some were skeptical, some noted other pedals that were roughly similar. In each case the negative responses were deflected and "explained away." I saw no really enthusiastic positive reactions. No one was blown away; no one was impressed. So now he is going elsewhere to find "an objective opinion," meaning that this forum's opinion was not really the "objective opinion" he was seeking. Yet here is a diverse group of enthusiastic cyclists, experienced riders who have by and large "tried everything," and are knowledgeable about mechanical issues. He asked the for the forum's opinion, he got that opinion in an extensive exchange, and he didn't like that opinion. So now he is going to find someone who will give him the "objective" opinion he wants---unless, in his own words, "they tell us it is no good."


^Nailed it^


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## factory feel (Nov 27, 2009)

I feel like a doormat


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## No Time Toulouse (Sep 7, 2016)

dombey19 said:


> I have followed this thread off and on from its beginning. I don't think the OP really wants the opinion of this group. He said he did when he first posted, but the responses of the group were not impressive. Some of the replies pointed out flaws, some were skeptical, some noted other pedals that were roughly similar. In each case the negative responses were deflected and "explained away." I saw no really enthusiastic positive reactions. No one was blown away; no one was impressed. So now he is going elsewhere to find "an objective opinion," meaning that this forum's opinion was not really the "objective opinion" he was seeking. Yet here is a diverse group of enthusiastic cyclists, experienced riders who have by and large "tried everything," and are knowledgeable about mechanical issues. He asked the for the forum's opinion, he got that opinion in an extensive exchange, and he didn't like that opinion. So now he is going to find someone who will give him the "objective" opinion he wants---unless, in his own words, "they tell us it is no good."


To be fair, the internet really encourages this sort of "discussion", where parties just keep posting THEIR ideas, without really listening to other's suggestions. It's sorta like 2 tomcats meeting in an alley and howling for all their worth; nothing gets solved, but a lot of noise is produced.

Also, there is the possibility that this discussion is nothing more than an exercise in publicity, meant to get backers. Not that I'm suggesting that this is the plans of the originators of this design, but there have been numerous examples of those making a handsome profit off a design that never reaches the market. Crowdfunding, unfortunately, makes this all too easy; Create some publicity, ask for backers, live off the money, then close the business.


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## No Time Toulouse (Sep 7, 2016)

Pitbull Pedal said:


> .... Below is a drawing of the final shape.


As an engineer concentrating on manufacturing quality control, your 'print' posted makes me wonder something; do you REALLY need to have specifications measured to 1/10,000"? You should realize that in general, when manufacturing something with such an exact dimension, you need to manufacture it to within ±.0005" tolerance. If, OTOH, you specified it to only 3 decimals (1/1,000"), then general manufacturing tolerances are ±.005". This is the difference between 'regular' and 'aerospace' tolerances. The manufacturing cost differences between the 2 are about 5/1.

Secondly, dimensioning from the bottom of a circlip groove to an external step is a time-consuming measurement, particularly of you are holding a ±.0005" tolerance, further increasing manufacturing costs. To stage this on the block, I would need a small v-block, a 1-2-3 block, a .0001" indicator with a very fine tip, and the use of a Cadillac gauge, not to mention the time needed for the measurement.

If you guys EVER bring this design to market, you will need to address these issues.


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## factory feel (Nov 27, 2009)

No Time Toulouse said:


> As an engineer concentrating on manufacturing quality control, your 'print' posted makes me wonder something; do you REALLY need to have specifications measured to 1/10,000"? You should realize that in general, when manufacturing something with such an exact dimension, you need to manufacture it to within ±.0005" tolerance. If, OTOH, you specified it to only 3 decimals (1/1,000"), then general manufacturing tolerances are ±.005". This is the difference between 'regular' and 'aerospace' tolerances. The manufacturing cost differences between the 2 are about 5/1.
> 
> Secondly, dimensioning from the bottom of a circlip groove to an external step is a time-consuming measurement, particularly of you are holding a ±.0005" tolerance, further increasing manufacturing costs. To stage this on the block, I would need a small v-block, a 1-2-3 block, a .0001" indicator with a very fine tip, and the use of a Cadillac gauge, not to mention the time needed for the measurement.
> 
> If you guys EVER bring this design to market, you will need to address these issues.


DUDE! This pedal needs to be spot on the money!! Did you see how_ FAST _Roger was sprinting??

Did you ever watch the 6 Million Dollar MAN as a kid and see his crash at the beginning of each episode??

This ain't gonna be going on no damn beach cruisers Broseph!!!


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## tlg (May 11, 2011)

No Time Toulouse said:


> As an engineer concentrating on manufacturing quality control, your 'print' posted makes me wonder something; do you REALLY need to have specifications measured to 1/10,000"?


I don't believe what he's showing is a manufacturing "print". It just a sketch with some ref dimensions popped in with default settings. I do it all the time, often to 6 or more decimal places.


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## Pitbull Pedal (Feb 19, 2018)

dombey19 said:


> ."


On the contrary, we did receive many opinions and that is what we were looking for. We've read each and every one and tried to give an honest response to each of them. It is true that there are good pedals out there, we just feel ours is a little better. Not even 100% sure what market we'd even be going after, it might be the person who's switching from flat pedals to clip in pedals, as ours are the easiest to learn. If they hold the way that I'm claiming that they hold, they'd be good enough for everyone. Thanks for your input.


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## Pitbull Pedal (Feb 19, 2018)

No Time Toulouse said:


> .


Thanks for this, you seem like you are highly educated on the topic. The drawing that I put out was just a basic drawing that Frank used to manufacture the pedal. We are not hoping to manufacture any large amounts of these. We're hoping to find some large company to either sell the patent to, or sell the rights to manufacture/etc. This drawing was just to show the final look.


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## Pitbull Pedal (Feb 19, 2018)

BubbaGump said:


> You have a large and diverse audience here in this forum. Why don't you whip up a few dozen sets, get some volunteers from here, and let us try them out for ourselves? I'm willing to try them out and report back my opinions.
> 
> Sent from my Moto Z (2) using Tapatalk


Thanks for the input, I think that you may be onto a good idea. To make these pedals, one at a time by hand is not easy to do, they do need to be mass produced. But we do have one of our earlier prototypes that I would be able to send to you. I think that I'd send the right side pedal as when I start out from a stop I have my left cleat in, push off, and as the crank rotates up my right foot simply clips into our new pedal. Just like you don't know me, I don't know who everyone else is. I would hope that I'd be sending this initial prototype out to a quality rider. But I would also like for 4 or 5 other members to receive the pedal after you did your testing. I also like if everyone would hold their response until the last person did their test as I would not want someone to read a negative response just because of some sort of bias, and not give it a fair test on their own. I can't control it, but I would like it to happen. Lets see if we could get 4 or 5 people who would want to test the pedal and I'll send it to you first, maybe you could forward it to the next and the last could send it back to us??


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## crit_boy (Aug 6, 2013)

Pitbull Pedal said:


> We're hoping to find some large company to either sell the patent to, or sell the rights to manufacture/etc.


Your patent does not protect your pedal in any of the embodiments you have shared in this thread. IOW, this hypothetical manufacturer has no need to buy your patent to make the pedal in this thread. 

I know you have said there is another patent application. No idea what that one says. But, making redesigned spindles raises a question about whether they are covered in your current patent application. IOW, a patent application and a patent does not protect that which you did not yet invent at the time the application was filed.


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## Pitbull Pedal (Feb 19, 2018)

Again, thanks for the input. I can only move forward based off what my attorney has told me. I do have a patent on the original pedal, but we have a patent pending on the latest version. As far as I understand it, I am protected. Thanks for pointing that out though, I do appreciate it.


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## crit_boy (Aug 6, 2013)

“To coin a phrase, the name of the game is the claim.”*

You need to have a very specific conversation with your attorney. E.g., match the claim limitations to your pedal. Your pedal has no supplemental sole. Your claims require a supplemental sole. Since your pedal is less parts than the patent claims, your patent claims do not protect your pedal comprising a cleat and spindle.

*Giles S. Rich, Extent of Protection and Interpretation of Claims - American Perspectives, 21 INT’L REV.
INDUS. PROP. & COPYRIGHT L. 497, 499 (1990).


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## Pitbull Pedal (Feb 19, 2018)

Thanks for that, I'll be emailing my attorney shortly to see what he says. He's been doing it a very long time, and has achieved a lot of patents for people. I want to assume he's gotten it covered. Also the patent pending covers a lot of different items that are on the new pedal that we are talking about.


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## Methodical (Jul 21, 2012)

Pitbull Pedal said:


> ...I want to assume he's gotten it covered...


Don't do this. Be absolutely sure he has it covered.


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## BubbaGump (Feb 17, 2015)

Pitbull Pedal said:


> Thanks for the input, I think that you may be onto a good idea. To make these pedals, one at a time by hand is not easy to do, they do need to be mass produced. But we do have one of our earlier prototypes that I would be able to send to you. I think that I'd send the right side pedal as when I start out from a stop I have my left cleat in, push off, and as the crank rotates up my right foot simply clips into our new pedal. Just like you don't know me, I don't know who everyone else is. I would hope that I'd be sending this initial prototype out to a quality rider. But I would also like for 4 or 5 other members to receive the pedal after you did your testing. I also like if everyone would hold their response until the last person did their test as I would not want someone to read a negative response just because of some sort of bias, and not give it a fair test on their own. I can't control it, but I would like it to happen. Lets see if we could get 4 or 5 people who would want to test the pedal and I'll send it to you first, maybe you could forward it to the next and the last could send it back to us??


Uhhh... I'd consider myself as quality of a rider as Roger is, whatever the hell that means. And an I reading right that you would be sending me not a set, but a single pedal and cleat? How is anyone supposed to really test out pedals that way? I'm out. 

Sent from my Moto Z (2) using Tapatalk


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## Pitbull Pedal (Feb 19, 2018)

I can definitely send two, but I assumed if you put one of mine on one side and your normal one on the other side and rode the bike it would be easy to compare the new ones vs the old ones. Some people seem a little hostile, I'm just a guy trying to have some fun with this, and give honest answers to the questions and statements given to me. Never meant to offend anyone.


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## Finx (Oct 19, 2017)

Pitbull Pedal said:


> I can definitely send two, but I assumed if you put one of mine on one side and your normal one on the other side and rode the bike it would be easy to compare the new ones vs the old ones. Some people seem a little hostile, I'm just a guy trying to have some fun with this, and give honest answers to the questions and statements given to me. Never meant to offend anyone.


You can't seriously expect someone to effectively evaluate one pedal, can you? 

I mean, I can think of several really good reasons *not* to do that, and not one single reason you would...


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## dir-t (Oct 14, 2005)

Pitbull Pedal said:


> I can definitely send two, but I assumed if you put one of mine on one side and your normal one on the other side and rode the bike it would be easy to compare the new ones vs the old ones.


Seriously? 

Did you even consider the issues/bias that would be introduced by having a different amount of leg extension on each side of the bike due to the likely difference in stack height (maybe the wrong term) between two different pedal/cleat systems?

It would be like someone who is trying to decide between buying a bike with 29" wheels versus 26" wheels test riding a bike that had one of each.


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## tomato coupe (Nov 8, 2009)

Finx said:


> You can't seriously expect someone to effectively evaluate one pedal, can you?


No problem, I do it with brake pads all the time -- new one on the right, old one on the left.


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## tlg (May 11, 2011)

Pitbull Pedal said:


> I can definitely send two, but I assumed if you put one of mine on one side and your normal one on the other side and rode the bike it would be easy to compare the new ones vs the old ones. Some people seem a little hostile, I'm just a guy trying to have some fun with this, and give honest answers to the questions and statements given to me. Never meant to offend anyone.


I don't think anyone is offended. It's just no one takes you seriously. All your hype and bravado about your pedals, yet zero real world evidence to support it. 
Can't (or won't) find a serious cyclist in your area to test your pedals. 
Multiple attempts at videos that all conveniently are missing the point you're trying to prove. 
Don't seem to have a grasp on what your patent covers.
And now you think someone can test just one of your pedals. 

FYI... you may want to consider the harm you posting here may cause to the potential future of your pedal. Any potential buyer/investor will find this forum and all the issues addressed about your pedal.
A google search of your patent and this forum comes up as #3.


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## Pitbull Pedal (Feb 19, 2018)

dir-t said:


> Seriously?
> 
> Did you even consider the issues/bias that would be introduced by having a different amount of leg extension on each side of the bike due to the likely difference in stack height (maybe the wrong term) between two different pedal/cleat systems?
> 
> It would be like someone who is trying to decide between buying a bike with 29" wheels versus 26" wheels test riding a bike that had one of each.


Thanks again for the input, I truly never gave it any consideration as I'm not a pro rider and small increments and adjustments on my bike my body can't really detect. I guess the more advanced riders can detect smaller increments. I was just hoping to show how easy it was to get in and out of, compared to the other foot. I was not really intending anyone to do any century rides.


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## velodog (Sep 26, 2007)

Pitbull Pedal said:


> Thanks again for the input, I truly never gave it any consideration as I'm not a pro rider and small increments and adjustments on my bike my body can't really detect. I guess the more advanced riders can detect smaller increments. I was just hoping to show how easy it was to get in and out of, compared to the other foot. I was not really intending anyone to do any century rides.


There's more to a pedal than clipping in and out. Does the pedal cleat combination spread the pressure enough that it doesn't create hot spots? That is only found during extended rides. 

A cyclist should know how his preferred pedal system works well enough to compare it without having the need to have two different pedals on his bike.


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## Pitbull Pedal (Feb 19, 2018)

tlg said:


> I don't think anyone is offended. It's just no one takes you seriously. All your hype and bravado about your pedals, yet zero real world evidence to support it.
> Can't (or won't) find a serious cyclist in your area to test your pedals.
> Multiple attempts at videos that all conveniently are missing the point you're trying to prove.
> Don't seem to have a grasp on what your patent covers.
> ...


I value your opinion, but all the info that I have provided is just to the best of my ability as I am not a pro rider. As far as a serious cyclist, I do believe that there are many levels. Roger is a good cyclist. Without blowing my horn, I can hold my own for my age. As far as the videos go, I somewhat agree, I missed the point of actually out of the saddle sprinting. But one of the last videos showed him and I sprinting on the causeway. Granted the video was not turned on early enough, but we had sprinted 100s of yards. Roger was able to pull ahead of me like I had anticipated, but that was definitely 2 people sprinting all out. As far as my patent, you are right. I'm not entirely sure what it covers, I've paid a patent attorney to take care of all my legal requirements. The actual patent pending is on the pedal that I am showing everyone, which cannot be viewed by the public yet. As I had said to someone else, I truly never gave it a lot of thought I guess. I was just hoping for someone to take our pedal for a ride, find out how it worked, do some sprinting and ship it on to the next person. Never intended them to do a month long test.

As far as any potential harm that I am doing, I really cannot see it as I've been 100% open and truthful with the statements that I have made as a non professional cyclist. Just trying to have fun with what we believe to be an awesome product. This pedal will hold, and is extremely easy to get into and out of, but maybe it should be for new riders as they're working their way up to become an A+ rider. I have no idea where the actual market will be on these pedals yet, only time will tell. (If there even is a market.) I have listened to the people on this forum, and I believe it may even of been you that came up with the beneficial design so we changed the pedal with a bigger, and more rounded off end on it. We do think it was a good modification.

Thank you, and everyone else for your input.


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## tlg (May 11, 2011)

Pitbull Pedal said:


> As far as any potential harm that I am doing, I really cannot see it as I've been 100% open and truthful with the statements that I have made as a non professional cyclist.


You don't have to be a professional cyclist to be an inventor. I'd venture to guess 99% of cycling products aren't designed by professional cyclists.



> As I had said to someone else, I truly never gave it a lot of thought I guess.





> Just trying to have fun with what we believe to be an awesome product.


This is exactly what I'm talking about. You just don't seem serious. Or really grasp how your product would/could be used. Yet you're trying to find someone to buy/invest in your product. You really haven't put the time and R&D into it. 

As an investor, if I saw this forum I'd be scared away. Pedals are a pretty big deal... if something goes wrong the user could get seriously injured or killed. I wouldn't want that responsibility. If I bought your patent, I'd be faced with a lot of R&D and testing before ever thinking of marketing it. 

Just be aware that everything you post here is public and easily found.


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## BubbaGump (Feb 17, 2015)

That's just it though, the foot/pedal interface is such an integral point of contact between the rider and the bike. A cyclist can't tell from one or two short rides how a pedal feels. It would take hours and months in the saddle to find out. A pedal is so much more than clipping in and out. The whole thing needs to be evaluated and feedback given. Evaluating just one pedal, while riding a different pedal on the other foot is a recipe for disaster on your end. There's no way to give a fair and honest evaluation that way. Stack height, float, q factor would all be different and play mind games with the rider. Try it for yourself sometime. If you were serious about trying to get this to market, you'd do the legwork. Make 10-20 sets, get a diverse group of riders (I doubt a pro would touch these, they have endorsements, sponsorships, and contracts), send them out for yearlong evaluation, entertain feedback and make changes based on what you hear back, send out updated versions to your testers. Instead, you're just throwing all that responsibility onto some manufacturer that nobody here has probably ever heard of. You are asked for videos and you can't provide what's asked. Here's a hint, instead of posting and saying "well, we were doing what you asked for just before the video started recording", stop and do it again, getting what you want to show us. It's amazing how cameras work like that.. But instead you upload crap to us and expect us to take you at your word.


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## crit_boy (Aug 6, 2013)

People ride pedals that they have to LOOK at to clip into and pedals that take TIME to clip into. 

Maybe there is a market for OP's fastest to clip into pedal. However, based upon the industry's naming schemes (LOOK TIME), pitbull pedals need a different name.

Maybe SPEEDPLAY ?


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## Pitbull Pedal (Feb 19, 2018)

tlg said:


> .


On the contrary, I am quite serious about this pedal. Frank and I have gone through many prototypes to come up with this version which we think is the best. I do appreciate every word you've said, but I do strongly disagree. My passion for this pedal is tremendous, just like my joy of riding. I average almost 100mi a week religiously. I guess I am what people refer to as a Clydesdale. I'm 195lbs/6'1 and seem to be quite strong, I can hammer on the pedals up bridges and never had any slippage what-so-ever. I do understand that I'm not a tour-de-france sprinter but not everyone is. The function of these pedals are tremendous. I'd put them up against any pedal on the market. I think I'll hold off on future new posts until we get our pedals back from Gear Junkie. They seem to be a well known company that should give us a 100% unbiased opinion. I'd hope that whatever their opinion is people will believe it, including ourselves if they say the pedal isn't as good as we think. I will still respond if someone says something here, but will not make any new threads until we get the pedals back.


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## dir-t (Oct 14, 2005)

crit_boy said:


> People ride pedals that they have to LOOK at to clip into and pedals that take TIME to clip into.
> 
> Maybe there is a market for OP's fastest to clip into pedal. However, based upon the industry's naming schemes (LOOK TIME), pitbull pedals need a different name.


LOL, I've ridden Time Attacks on my MTBs for about 20 years. They seem to engage almost instantly and there's no reason I would ever change to a different pedal for MTB.

The Look KEOs on my road bike take a second or two loner to clip into, and it does help if I look at them. But still, no need for me to switch.

Is it bad that this has become my favorite thread to follow?


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## Oxtox (Aug 16, 2006)

Pitbull Pedal said:


> I average almost 100 mi a week religiously. I can hammer on the pedals up bridges and never had any slippage what-so-ever. The function of these pedals are tremendous. I'd put them up against any pedal on the market.


sigh, your personal mileage means nothing in regard to the pedal you're trying to develop.

neither my DA pedals nor my Look KEOs exhibit any 'slippage'...is this a big problem that's being experienced by users of other brands?

'the function are tremendous'...? sounds like you'll be looking for Pres. Trump to do a voice-over on the ads.

and Capt Obvious would note that putting them up against every other pedal offered is exactly what you'd be doing if they come to market.


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## craiger_ny (Jun 24, 2014)

crit_boy said:


> People ride pedals that they have to LOOK at to clip into and pedals that take TIME to clip into.
> 
> Maybe there is a market for OP's fastest to clip into pedal. However, based upon the industry's naming schemes (LOOK TIME), pitbull pedals need a different name.


Quickstab?


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## factory feel (Nov 27, 2009)

Poodle pedals?


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## ogre (Dec 16, 2005)

Quill you all quit kidding around? He's obviously ecliplessed what the market offers and he has a solid platform.


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## crit_boy (Aug 6, 2013)

Seems the thread js going this way:

How many pedals could a pedal peddler peddle if a pedal peddler peddled pedals?


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## velodog (Sep 26, 2007)

craiger_ny said:


> Quickstab?


You must spread some Reputation around before giving it to craiger_ny again.


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## Pitbull Pedal (Feb 19, 2018)

dir-t said:


> LOL, I've ridden Time Attacks on my MTBs for about 20 years. They seem to engage almost instantly and there's no reason I would ever change to a different pedal for MTB.
> 
> The Look KEOs on my road bike take a second or two loner to clip into, and it does help if I look at them. But still, no need for me to switch.
> 
> Is it bad that this has become my favorite thread to follow?


I appreciate it but you'd be one out of the 350 million people in the country I probably couldn't sell it to (I am joking) I enjoy watching bike videos on Youtube, team GCN, who give all sorts of tips from climbing/sprinting/etc are constantly making remarks in their videos of how lucky they are saying "oops, clipped in first time" or "I didn't miss it that time" so obviously even some of the best riders in the world have issues sometimes. Just like automobiles, there are many different makes and models that all generally do the same thing. Maybe our pedal will find a niche as you do get in 100% of the time, on the first time. Just our thoughts.


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## Pitbull Pedal (Feb 19, 2018)

Oxtox said:


> sigh, your personal mileage means nothing in regard to the pedal you're trying to develop.
> 
> neither my DA pedals nor my Look KEOs exhibit any 'slippage'...is this a big problem that's being experienced by users of other brands?
> 
> ...


As far as my personal mileage, I do agree that it means nothing to the pedal. I was just trying to emphasize to everyone that I'm not a ten mile a week rider, that I am dedicated to riding and love the sport of cycling. My LOOK pedals that I had used for many years, obviously never slipped. Our point isn't slipping out of them, we want to get into them on the first attempt, every time. Then once you're in that you feel secure to be able to ride as hard as you want, without them slipping. Maybe our niche might be for new riders who want to start using a clip in pedal. I probably wouldn't be able to get the President to do a voice over, but I do hope to get a good report back from Gear Junkie after they do their testing. As far as Capt. Obvious, he is correct once again.


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## Pitbull Pedal (Feb 19, 2018)

OMG the verdict is in. After a long summer of 3rd party testing at Gear Junkie we have our report. I have been speaking with them throughout the entire process. During that time I could see that things were going well and now the report confirms it. If you would, please take a moment to read this and let me know what you think. I have been quiet for a long time waiting for this actual written review. As I go backwards through the prior posts there was a lot of people who did did not believe that the pedals worked the way that I was trying to explain. Frankly I would have to agree, as it just doesn't seem possible that this system would hold as well as it does. Anyways I'm pretty excited about the news, let me know what you think. The review is right here https://gearjunkie.com/pitbull-clipless-road-cycling-pedals-lightweight-review


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## factory feel (Nov 27, 2009)




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## shermes (Jul 26, 2008)

I didn't see anything about Roger and his sprinting in the review, so I'am a little disappointed about that. Best of luck with these pedals.


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## factory feel (Nov 27, 2009)

I don't want an ugly round bar as a pedal.

I'm out.


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## cxwrench (Nov 9, 2004)

factory feel said:


> I don't want an ugly round bar as a pedal.
> 
> I'm out.


Pretty much this. I don't care how good they work, they look like crap.


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## Fajita Dave (Dec 1, 2015)

Pitbull Pedal said:


> OMG the verdict is in. After a long summer of 3rd party testing at Gear Junkie we have our report. I have been speaking with them throughout the entire process. During that time I could see that things were going well and now the report confirms it. If you would, please take a moment to read this and let me know what you think. I have been quiet for a long time waiting for this actual written review. As I go backwards through the prior posts there was a lot of people who did did not believe that the pedals worked the way that I was trying to explain. Frankly I would have to agree, as it just doesn't seem possible that this system would hold as well as it does. Anyways I'm pretty excited about the news, let me know what you think. The review is right here https://gearjunkie.com/pitbull-clipless-road-cycling-pedals-lightweight-review


Love the design! I still like having float so I don't plan on trying them. Good luck nonetheless.


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## velodog (Sep 26, 2007)

factory feel said:


> I don't want an ugly round bar as a pedal.
> 
> I'm out.





cxwrench said:


> Pretty much this. I don't care how good they work, they look like crap.


Come on guys, they ain't no worse than a kickstand hanging off the side of a bike.


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## Akirasho (Jan 27, 2004)

... bearing failure on LOOK pedal.

<a href="https://smg.photobucket.com/user/Akirasho/media/Bike%20Cave/Cyclist-LookPedal-IMG_4746.jpg.html" target="_blank"><img src="https://img.photobucket.com/albums/v468/Akirasho/Bike%20Cave/Cyclist-LookPedal-IMG_4746.jpg" border="0" alt=" photo Cyclist-LookPedal-IMG_4746.jpg"/></a>

... granted, not by design, but it was a beotch riding home (tried slipping pedal (still STUCK) on shoe back onto spindle) and the spindle jabbed the bejeezuz outta my ankle every time I slipped.

The "jabbiness" bothers me.

Yay! I contributed!!!


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## Fredrico (Jun 15, 2002)

Akirasho said:


> ... bearing failure on LOOK pedal.
> 
> <a href="https://smg.photobucket.com/user/Akirasho/media/Bike%20Cave/Cyclist-LookPedal-IMG_4746.jpg.html" target="_blank"><img src="https://img.photobucket.com/albums/v468/Akirasho/Bike%20Cave/Cyclist-LookPedal-IMG_4746.jpg" border="0" alt=" photo Cyclist-LookPedal-IMG_4746.jpg"/></a>
> 
> ...


Here's what you need, gossamer cage that distributes weight across the shoe, using only a small considerably more "walkable" cleat, cheap, and easy to replace, as well as the clip and strap. 

Cycling shoes can be used one day, sneakers the next, depending on the ride. Rider can leave straps loose and pull out at will, or tighten the straps for serious hammering. The foot will never "unclip" under power.


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## tlg (May 11, 2011)

Pitbull Pedal said:


> The review is right here https://gearjunkie.com/pitbull-clipless-road-cycling-pedals-lightweight-review


So the review confirmed what everyone has said, which you vehemently denied. 



> _The most egregious issue with these cleats is the profile on the shoe. These cleats stick out much more than standard road cleats, and those are a pain already. Because this was a prototype set, I refrained from walking around as much as possible.
> 
> I found it extremely difficult to walk into the office or a coffee shop wearing the cleats. The cleats protrude quite far from the front of the foot, so you can’t even feign a normal gait._
> 
> _... because the cleats are a hassle on any standard road shoe_.





Pitbull Pedal said:


> I think that they really should be for the weekend warrior, or any new person wanting to start moving into clip in pedals as they are so easy to clip into.


Your target market is exactly the type of person who'd be doing a lot of walking. An "egregious issue" is a non starter.


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## Pitbull Pedal (Feb 19, 2018)

tlg said:


> So the review confirmed what everyone has said, which you vehemently denied.
> 
> Your target market is exactly the type of person who'd be doing a lot of walking. An "egregious issue" is a non starter.


This whole process has been fun and I've enjoyed answering people like you who have legitimate thoughts and concerns about it. You are correct, we were not and have not tried to design a walking shoe/hiking shoe/etc. These were designed to ride on a road bike. Where I must disagree with Adam's review, is the walk-ability. You can most definitely walk in these shoes anywhere you need to. But they are obviously not going to be like walking in sneakers. I'm going to make a short clip soon to emphasis the walk-ability. Thanks for your thoughts.


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## Oxtox (Aug 16, 2006)

Pitbull is a good name...you know, with the dogged determination and such...

a lot of time and effort to build a mousetrap...not a better mousetrap, just a mousetrap.

but, if you're enjoying the process, guess the end result doesn't matter all that much.


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## Pitbull Pedal (Feb 19, 2018)

shermes said:


> I didn't see anything about Roger and his sprinting in the review, so I'am a little disappointed about that. Best of luck with these pedals.


https://youtu.be/vNFKi8yif2w here is a video of Roger and I sprinting together. Roger is the one that has the watt meter so he is the one that we're referencing that we were producing. Thanks.




factory feel said:


> I don't want an ugly round bar as a pedal.
> I'm out.


Design is very interpretive, and in your case you seem to not like it. In our opinion it is a very sleek, simple, and well working design. There is nothing to orientate to clip in, ever.



cxwrench said:


> Pretty much this. I don't care how good they work, they look like crap.


Same answer as above. That's the same idea as why some people buy Cadillac and some buy Mercedes



velodog said:


> Come on guys, they ain't no worse than a kickstand hanging off the side of a bike.


Same as above



Akirasho said:


> ... bearing failure on LOOK pedal.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I appreciate the input, a broken pedal will definitely not work anywhere near like our new design that just got the testing at Gear Junkie. 



Fredrico said:


> Here's what you need, gossamer cage that distributes weight across the shoe, using only a small considerably more "walkable" cleat, cheap, and easy to replace, as well as the clip and strap.
> 
> Cycling shoes can be used one day, sneakers the next, depending on the ride. Rider can leave straps loose and pull out at will, or tighten the straps for serious hammering. The foot will never "unclip" under power.


Obviously you are a person who loves a design from the 60s. Whatever works for you is what you should definitely use if that is what gets you on the bike and off the sofa, riding many miles per week.


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## QuiQuaeQuod (Jan 24, 2003)

I will 100% laugh at anyone who uses these pedals for being an idiot. But I doubt I will ever see anyone riding them. For reasons that should be obvious to anyone not selling them who has read this thread.


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## Pitbull Pedal (Feb 19, 2018)

I try to respond to as many of these as possible. If that is your opinion, I respect that. You'd be a person who'd buy a McLaren over a Ferrari. It is just how life goes. There is nothing about this pedal system in my opinion that would create such a negative mindset. The pedals are round, there is nothing to orientate, the cleats on your shoe are not anything out of the ordinary as far as height/width/depth. They are not walking shoes, dancing shoes, mountain climbing shoes, they are just road bike shoes. You can easily walk in these shoes to get a coffee or snack while riding. But in Adam's thoughts at GJ they were a little difficult, which was his opinion. I'll just leave it at that.


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## QuiQuaeQuod (Jan 24, 2003)

Pitbull Pedal said:


> You'd be a person who'd buy a McLaren over a Ferrari.


You know nothing about me, and your pedal looks more on the Lada level.


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## tlg (May 11, 2011)

Pitbull Pedal said:


> They are not walking shoes, dancing shoes, mountain climbing shoes, they are just road bike shoes.


Again... YOUR target market....


Pitbull Pedal said:


> I think that they really should be for the weekend warrior, or any new person wanting to start moving into clip in pedals as they are so easy to clip into.


Your target market is going to be doing a bit of walking.



Pitbull Pedal said:


> You can easily walk in these shoes to get a coffee or snack while riding. But in Adam's thoughts at GJ they were a little difficult, which was his opinion. I'll just leave it at that.


You are severely misrepresenting Adam's thoughts. He did not say "a little difficult". His exact words....


GearJunkie said:


> The most *egregious *issue with these cleats is the profile on the shoe.
> 
> I found it *extremely difficult* to walk into the office or a coffee shop wearing the cleats. The cleats protrude quite far from the front of the foot, so *you can’t even feign a normal gait.*


You have probably 20 people in this thread who have opined that those cleats would be a PITA to walk in. And now you have an independent review confirming exactly what everyone has said.


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## thesmokingman (Dec 27, 2008)

siclmn said:


> I had pedals just like those 20 years ago. They were called Aerolite pedals. They were the lightest pedals in existence. The cleat was different though. The only thing I didn't like was the fact that they had no float and you say yours don't either. That kills it for me.﻿


That's the first pedal that came to mind when I saw this thread. Apparently Aerolite now have a 30gram pedal out, lol. I'd always wanted a set as a teen... hmm.

AeroLite Pedals


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## pmf (Feb 23, 2004)

The pedals are the axles, and the cleats are the pedals. Would anyone want to walk around with a pedal attached to his shoe? I have an idea, how about bike shorts with saddles already attached so all you have to do is sit on the seat tube?


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## thesmokingman (Dec 27, 2008)

pmf said:


> The pedals are the axles, and the cleats are the pedals. Would anyone want to walk around with a pedal attached to his shoe? I have an idea, how about *bike shorts with saddles already attached* so all you have to do is sit on the seat tube?


That's a great idea, you have a seat anywhere you go?


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## factory feel (Nov 27, 2009)

I'm thinking handlebars attached to the gloves!

I'm gonna go get some Gorilla glue and work on a Prototype.

BRB


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## OldZaskar (Jul 1, 2009)

Oh you laugh... but the question has come up before: Why do you guys have bikes with those super-light, unpadded seats... and then put pads in your shorts? 

Clearly it's to make our bikes look better ;-)

I just keep thinking this pedal system is answering a question no one asked. Okay, that's not entirely true. The infinite engagement is legit. But, the trade-off - a sloppy Q-factor, a floordozer of a cleat... Nah. I'm sticking with my Keos.


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## factory feel (Nov 27, 2009)

pmf said:


> The pedals are the axles, and the cleats are the pedals. Would anyone want to walk around with a pedal attached to his shoe? I have an idea, how about bike shorts with saddles already attached so all you have to do is sit on the seat tube?


Make the connection clipless as well!

Bam!

Roger could do some high speed sprint testing for you too!


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## trailflow (Sep 7, 2014)

This pedal idea is not as terrible as try to make it look. He's has come up with something new with the cleat and 360 degree entry. At first glance, your design has some things going for it, simplicity, your cleat design is a good idea the way it hooks and engages with the simple rodded spindle. I like the approach. 

The 360 degree entry is an advantage over systems currently on the market. You have solved a problem there. The spindle is as simple as it could possibly be. your spindle has no complicated parts that could get clogged,bent,damaged or could wear down. Which are typical flaws of the current pedal systems.

If your steel cleats are super tough and can withstand a lot of punishment. And can shed dirt quickly. And wont bend easily. And are walkable for short distances. Then i think you have a worthy product. 

Not everybody likes float btw. iI don't. Your metal cleats do appeal to me. Because they will be more durable than plastic (SH11) cleats. I would be interested in trying these pedals.

Send more units to more review websites. and not just one vender but as many as you viably can. The more exposure, the more interest you will get. It looks like you have done most of the hard work already. And they are ready to market. If your confident in your pedal and how it operates. Start a Kickstarter campaign and if successful, do a production run. Then grow from there.


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## factory feel (Nov 27, 2009)

trailflow said:


> This pedal idea is not as terrible as try to make it look. He's has come up with something new with the cleat and 360 degree entry. At first glance, your design has some things going for it, simplicity, your cleat design is a good idea the way it hooks and engages with the simple rodded spindle. I like the approach.
> 
> The 360 degree entry is an advantage over systems currently on the market. You have solved a problem there. The spindle is as simple as it could possibly be. your spindle has no complicated parts that could get clogged,bent,damaged or could wear down. Which are typical flaws of the current pedal systems.
> 
> ...


Hi Roger


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## kjdhawkhill (Jan 29, 2011)

velodog said:


> Paired up with disc brakes and we have a slasher movie.


 careful, this could go all Politics Only. #cantissavelives #rimbrakesforlife #delislicersat400watts




tlg said:


> What do they cost?


 does it really matter? Even if it’s half of 105, that soft aluminum will wear just as fast. This isn’t industry changing. 



cxwrench said:


> In my area I'd have to guess about 75%. Someone that rides that much is most likely serious enough to use road shoes.


 anyone with a 23-28mm tired bike who rides 6 hours a week is more likely than not to have “road” pedals. Even gravel grinders are ridden by some on road pedals. 



Oxtox said:


> it's good to have people trying different approaches to things...
> 
> pointing out design flaws and desirable attributes is helpful, being a snarky jerk and telling the guy his idea is crap isn't.
> 
> consumers will determine if a new item is an improved and cost-competitive alternative to other products.


I’m a consumer. I hereby tell this guy that anodizing some aluminum cleats and calling it a revolution isn’t going to gain (any of my) market share. I’ve said it before in other threads, but using this forum as a kickstarter for reinventing the non-wheel isn’t too exciting. 



shiggy said:


> Accelerating out of the saddle is not sprinting and bridges are not climbs.
> 
> You really need to have truly strong and fast riders (racers) to test these. I think their results would shock you.


Nah, it will fizzle before it comes to serious marketing or safety testing. 

Also, bridges are the only climbs in Florida. 



velodog said:


> What is very strong for a short burst?
> 
> How many watts and for how long. 200lbs doesn't equate with 800 watts and a strong 65yr old isn't a strong 25yr old.
> 
> And I think that a puncture wound from a pedal spindle is a much more serious injury than you seem to regard it. Round bayonets were outlawed by the Geneva Convention because of the devastating wounds, used in warfare, that they created, and a pedal spindle is pretty much a bayonet mounted on a crankarm.


 let’s not go all crazy with Geneva convention comparisons between bicycle pedals... and bayonets...

numerous bayonet shapes have been interpreted as violating the Geneva convention by various warring parties... we’re not warring, and as far as I can tell, no international judicial body has actually held someone accountable for a pedal or cleat shape.



bmach said:


> Best of luck hope it all “clicks” for you.


Nah, I hope
The OP comes up with a magic airless tire, lighter and more resilient than decent pneumatic... a revolution might happen, but this isn’t it. 

I hope this guy’s BB clicks for the remainder of his business plan.




Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## shermes (Jul 26, 2008)

factory feel said:


> Hi Roger


Love that guy man, he's stupid fast and has a watt meter.


----------



## Pitbull Pedal (Feb 19, 2018)

tlg said:


> Again... YOUR target market....Your target market is going to be doing a bit of walking.
> You are severely misrepresenting Adam's thoughts. He did not say "a little difficult". His exact words....
> You have probably 20 people in this thread who have opined that those cleats would be a PITA to walk in. And now you have an independent review confirming exactly what everyone has said.


Based on the shape of these pedals I would agree that they would be not your average walking shoe that you'd buy from the mall. They are a road bike shoe. It is true that Adam did have negative to say about walking. Where they may take a short while to get used to walking in them, once you get used to it there is nothing to it. I personally don't know why Adam had the trouble that he had other than they were our aluminum test pedals and maybe he was just afraid that he could've damaged them. The aluminum ones will scratch up but it does not damage the integrity of the cleats at all.




trailflow said:


> This pedal idea is not as terrible as try to make it look. He's has come up with something new with the cleat and 360 degree entry. At first glance, your design has some things going for it, simplicity, your cleat design is a good idea the way it hooks and engages with the simple rodded spindle. I like the approach.
> The 360 degree entry is an advantage over systems currently on the market. You have solved a problem there. The spindle is as simple as it could possibly be. your spindle has no complicated parts that could get clogged,bent,damaged or could wear down. Which are typical flaws of the current pedal systems.
> If your steel cleats are super tough and can withstand a lot of punishment. And can shed dirt quickly. And wont bend easily. And are walkable for short distances. Then i think you have a worthy product.
> Not everybody likes float btw. iI don't. Your metal cleats do appeal to me. Because they will be more durable than plastic (SH11) cleats. I would be interested in trying these pedals.
> Send more units to more review websites. and not just one vender but as many as you viably can. The more exposure, the more interest you will get. It looks like you have done most of the hard work already. And they are ready to market. If your confident in your pedal and how it operates. Start a Kickstarter campaign and if successful, do a production run. Then grow from there.


Thank you for understanding the workability of the pedals. I just finished up a video and it will be posted as soon as it uploads. I made the video with a smile on my face as I'm just trying to have some fun here and I think that I have a good idea.


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## Pitbull Pedal (Feb 19, 2018)

OldZaskar said:


> Oh you laugh... but the question has come up before: Why do you guys have bikes with those super-light, unpadded seats... and then put pads in your shorts?
> 
> Clearly it's to make our bikes look better ;-)
> 
> I just keep thinking this pedal system is answering a question no one asked. Okay, that's not entirely true. The infinite engagement is legit. But, the trade-off - a sloppy Q-factor, a floordozer of a cleat... Nah. I'm sticking with my Keos.




There is no sloppy Q-factor, these pedals are absolutely precision made right down to a few 100,000ths of an inch. Which makes them work or not work. With the machinery now it is easy to achieve this level of precision. These are just prototypes and some pedals that we've made and used. We think that the cleats could possibly be made out of fiber filled nylon with injection molding and simply be a few dollars to produce. Also the plastic could have two strategically placed holes that you could insert a carbide or stainless steel insert that would prevent the cleats from wearing down. These are all things to be determined at a later date.


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## Pitbull Pedal (Feb 19, 2018)

Proof is before your eyes. https://youtu.be/dCocRi_gqXg

So many people have mentioned that you cannot walk in these pedals, including Adam who did our 3rd party testing. I think that he was just trying to be kind, thinking he may damage them because they're aluminum. Even though the aluminum will scratch easily it will not damage the cleats function at all. It is just superficial scratching.


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## tlg (May 11, 2011)

Pitbull Pedal said:


> Based on the shape of these pedals I would agree that they would be not your average walking shoe that you'd buy from the mall.


Well no $#it! No one is saying anything about your average walking shoe from the mall. Duh.

But YOUR target "weekend warrior, or any new person wanting to start moving into clip in pedals" is going to be doing a bit of walking. 




> They are a road bike shoe. It is true that Adam did have negative to say about walking. Where they may take a short while to get used to walking in them, once you get used to it there is nothing to it. I personally don't know why Adam had the trouble that he had other than they were our aluminum test pedals and maybe he was just afraid that he could've damaged them.


Adam said he used the pedals for a "few hundred miles over the summer".
That's a damn long learning curve for an experienced cyclist. Doesn't sound like a short while. 

But we should just take your word for it


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## Pitbull Pedal (Feb 19, 2018)

I'm hoping you've seen the video right above you, but the link is here https://youtu.be/dCocRi_gqXg also


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## OldZaskar (Jul 1, 2009)

Pitbull Pedal said:


> There is no sloppy Q-factor, these pedals are absolutely precision made right down to a few 100,000ths of an inch.


I was referring to this: 









Unless I'm not understanding how this works... it looks like the pedal has about 30% more real estate than the cleat uses... netting a variable Q-factor, e.g. the cleat could engage in different spots on the pedal - dead center, left of center, right of center... Am I misunderstanding how the system works?


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## tomato coupe (Nov 8, 2009)

Pitbull Pedal said:


> There is no sloppy Q-factor, these pedals are absolutely precision made right down to a few 100,000ths of an inch. Which makes them work or not work. With the machinery now it is easy to achieve this level of precision. .


You need to check with your machinist friend before posting numbers. Your pedals and cleats are definitely not made to within "a few 100,000ths of an inch." (Even if they were, the dimensions of the cleats would change by more than that as soon as they were exposed to a temperature change of a few degrees.)



OldZaskar said:


> I was referring to this:
> 
> View attachment 323903
> 
> ...


Yeah, it looks like there are several millimeters of side-to-side uncertainty when clipping in.


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## factory feel (Nov 27, 2009)

That's by far the fugliest pedal I've ever seen!!!

No way I'd run that pipe.


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## tlg (May 11, 2011)

tomato coupe said:


> You need to check with your machinist friend before posting numbers. Your pedals and cleats are definitely not made to within "a few 100,000ths of an inch." (Even if they were, the dimensions of the cleats would change by more than that as soon as they were exposed to a temperature change of a few degrees.)


Uh huh. You don't simply machine (or measure) to "a few 100,000ths of an inch." That's 100x more precise than bearing tolerances. 



> Yeah, it looks like there are several millimeters of side-to-side uncertainty when clipping in.


Pedal threads are about 9/16". That spindle looks about 1/2" dia. I'd say there's at least 1" (25mm) or lateral play.


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## cxwrench (Nov 9, 2004)

Pitbull Pedal said:


> There is no sloppy Q-factor, these pedals are absolutely *precision made right down to a few 100,000ths of an inch*. Which makes them work or not work. *With the machinery now it is easy to achieve this level of precision.* These are just prototypes and some pedals that we've made and used. We think that the cleats could possibly be made out of fiber filled nylon with injection molding and simply be a few dollars to produce. Also the plastic could have two strategically placed holes that you could insert a carbide or stainless steel insert that would prevent the cleats from wearing down. These are all things to be determined at a later date.


Uhmmmm...no, and no.


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## factory feel (Nov 27, 2009)

no one is going to run a pipe nipple as a peddle.


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## Lombard (May 8, 2014)

factory feel said:


> no one is going to run a pipe nipple as a *peddle*.


I don't know any vendors who peddle these pedals.


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## Pitbull Pedal (Feb 19, 2018)

OldZaskar said:


> I was referring to this:
> 
> View attachment 323903
> 
> ...


The picture that you're referring to is Adam's from GJ. The large flange up against the crank is actually a guide flange that Adam was not 100% familiar with. You simply keep your foot pressed up against the flange when you engage the system, it keeps your foot in the same position virtually every time. In our opinion if you did miss the position by an 1/8th of an inch, between your foot, ankle, knee, and hip with all of these moving joints there is no way that your brain would pick it up. Sorry I had misunderstood what you meant by Q-Factor. I'm new at this!


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## tlg (May 11, 2011)

Pitbull Pedal said:


> The picture that you're referring to is Adam's from GJ. The large flange up against the crank is actually a guide flange that Adam was not 100% familiar with. You simply keep your foot pressed up against the flange when you engage the system, it keeps your foot in the same position virtually every time. In our opinion if you did miss the position by an 1/8th of an inch, between your foot, ankle, knee, and hip with all of these moving joints there is no way that your brain would pick it up. Sorry I had misunderstood what you meant by Q-Factor. I'm new at this!


What keeps your shoe from rubbing against the flange while you're riding?


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## OldZaskar (Jul 1, 2009)

Pitbull Pedal said:


> The picture that you're referring to is Adam's from GJ. The large flange up against the crank is actually a guide flange that Adam was not 100% familiar with. You simply keep your foot pressed up against the flange when you engage the system, it keeps your foot in the same position virtually every time. In our opinion if you did miss the position by an 1/8th of an inch, between your foot, ankle, knee, and hip with all of these moving joints there is no way that your brain would pick it up. Sorry I had misunderstood what you meant by Q-Factor. I'm new at this!


That large washer... uh, flange as a guides seems like an inelegant solution - even an afterthought for locating the cleat. I'll bet your engineers can design a better solution. Maybe even something adjustable - turn that slop into a competitive advantage, e.g. the ability to select the optimal Q-Factor. 

Oh and side note: Hold off on admitting that, a as pedal designer/manufacturer, you're unfamiliar with "Q-Factor" ;-)


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## Pitbull Pedal (Feb 19, 2018)

tomato coupe said:


> You need to check with your machinist friend before posting numbers. Your pedals and cleats are definitely not made to within "a few 100,000ths of an inch." (Even if they were, the dimensions of the cleats would change by more than that as soon as they were exposed to a temperature change of a few degrees.)
> Yeah, it looks like there are several millimeters of side-to-side uncertainty when clipping in.


I have made a huge mistake with my zeros. There are a few thousandths of an inch, not hundred thousandths. Just the end of the work day and I was tired, must've gotten carried away with the zero button. As far as side to side (please) there is a little fudge room to get into the pedal. The guide washer next to the crank is your lead to get into the pedal. This virtually puts your foot in the same position every time. In my opinion like I had stated before, between the foot/ankle/knee/hip joints there is no way that you could detect if you were clipped in a few millimeters away from time to time.




factory feel said:


> That's by far the fugliest pedal I've ever seen!!!
> No way I'd run that pipe.


Fortunately or unfortunately my wife is a interior designer. Therefore I have learned that design and beauty is really in the eye of the beholder. You'd be someone who wouldn't buy this pedal off of the design, I can accept that.




tlg said:


> Uh huh. You don't simply machine (or measure) to "a few 100,000ths of an inch." That's 100x more precise than bearing tolerances.
> Pedal threads are about 9/16". That spindle looks about 1/2" dia. I'd say there's at least 1" (25mm) or lateral play.


I've tried to clarify my mistake above, as I'm a cabinet builder and got my 0's f-d up.




tlg said:


> What keeps your shoe from rubbing against the flange while you're riding?


The pedal is designed for your shoe to go against the guide washer (flange) it is all on bearings so everything moves with your foot. There is no spinning of anything that touches your shoe.




OldZaskar said:


> That large washer... uh, flange as a guides seems like an inelegant solution - even an afterthought for locating the cleat. I'll bet your engineers can design a better solution. Maybe even something adjustable - turn that slop into a competitive advantage, e.g. the ability to select the optimal Q-Factor.
> Oh and side note: Hold off on admitting that, a as pedal designer/manufacturer, you're unfamiliar with "Q-Factor" ;-)


You are exactly right. I am a humble cabinet builder, and my partner is a machinist. We just enjoy our bikes tremendously as they've changed our lives in fitness. It is funny but I looked up Q-Factor and thought it was Quality factor.


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## Pitbull Pedal (Feb 19, 2018)

I've enjoyed everyone's input and have tried to respond to as many as I can. I am surprised that nobody has mentioned walking in the cleat as I had made a video that is right https://youtu.be/dCocRi_gqXg here again. As I look at it, it is a little bit sarcastic but funny at the same time. It is just easy to see how fast you can clip into these pedals every time.


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## tlg (May 11, 2011)

Pitbull Pedal said:


> I've enjoyed everyone's input and have tried to respond to as many as I can. I am surprised that nobody has mentioned walking in the cleat as I had made a video that is right https://youtu.be/dCocRi_gqXg here again. As I look at it, it is a little bit sarcastic but funny at the same time. It is just easy to see how fast you can clip into these pedals every time.


Sarcastic... like obnoxious. 
Funny? Not in the way you think.

I noticed you picked the most coarse piece of pavement to do your dance routine. Of course Adam real life tested them and said.... 

"I found it extremely difficult to walk into the office or a coffee shop wearing the cleats. The cleats protrude quite far from the front of the foot, so you can’t even feign a normal gait."


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## factory feel (Nov 27, 2009)

OK I'll try them, how much??


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## QuiQuaeQuod (Jan 24, 2003)

tlg said:


> Sarcastic... like obnoxious.
> Funny? Not in the way you think.


I doubt the negative buzz will make it into PP's yearly evaluation discussion. Hmmmmmm, that gives me a highly mature idea.



factory feel said:


> OK I'll try them, how much??


I look forward to your review, I can't think of anyone better to tell us all about PPs.



.


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## OldZaskar (Jul 1, 2009)

This shot - okay, any shot - of the pedals mounted... yikes! And people thought discs were scary in group rides/races.









Gives a whole new meaning to "Q-Factor" 









For you millennials, Q made up the crazy cool stuff for 007


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## BubbaGump (Feb 17, 2015)

Pitbull Pedal said:


> Proof is before your eyes. https://youtu.be/dCocRi_gqXg
> 
> So many people have mentioned that you cannot walk in these pedals, including Adam who did our 3rd party testing. I think that he was just trying to be kind, thinking he may damage them because they're aluminum. Even though the aluminum will scratch easily it will not damage the cleats function at all. It is just superficial scratching.


Now let's see how walking on ceramic tile (like in a gas station) or hardwood floors (like your local coffee shop) goes. 

Sent from my SM-G965U using Tapatalk


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## Pitbull Pedal (Feb 19, 2018)

tlg said:


> Sarcastic... like obnoxious.
> Funny? Not in the way you think.
> 
> I noticed you picked the most coarse piece of pavement to do your dance routine. Of course Adam real life tested them and said....
> ...


OMG I just made a random video, never even gave it any thought other than walking outside and making it. I guess for me, walking in all of the outdoor areas that I had showed should be sufficient to show that normal outdoor walking can happen. I guess if you were to go inside on a polished marble floor you would probably want to walk a bit more graceful. These are obviously not meant for walking on those surfaces. But I'm sure that you can understand that it can be done. The only objective for these pedals is to get into the first time, every time without having to orientate the pedal.





factory feel said:


> OK I'll try them, how much??


Appreciate the fact that you'd be willing to get a pair. These are still just the prototype as we're just trying to develop a more efficient pedal. At this point I don't know how much that could be mass produced for, hopefully we'd find someone to work that out with.




OldZaskar said:


> This shot - okay, any shot - of the pedals mounted... yikes! And people thought discs were scary in group rides/races.
> 
> View attachment 323911
> 
> ...


I guess if you were to look at these pedals as a danger you could somehow come up with that thought. In our opinion, with the large blunt end we believe it would be virtually impossible to impale yourself or someone with the pedal. I will admit that anything is possible if everything was to go horrifically wrong at the same time. When I look at my bike and I see the giant saw tooth sprocket and the giant scar on my partners leg, I see much more danger there. We won't even discuss normal crashes as I've had through my cycling years.




BubbaGump said:


> Now let's see how walking on ceramic tile (like in a gas station) or hardwood floors (like your local coffee shop) goes.
> 
> Sent from my SM-G965U using Tapatalk


Ok, if I was going on a century ride and I was going to make 3 or 4 stops at convenience stores for some Gatorade. You really don't think that you could walk a little bit more gentle into a store to get a drink without falling. If I need to prove it with a video I could make one. But I have been into many, many stores and not fallen/damaged the floors/been asked to leave, ever.


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## tlg (May 11, 2011)

Pitbull Pedal said:


> OMG I just made a random video, never even gave it any thought other than walking outside and making it. I guess for me, walking in all of the outdoor areas that I had showed should be sufficient to show that normal outdoor walking can happen. I guess if you were to go inside on a polished marble floor you would probably want to walk a bit more graceful. These are obviously not meant for walking on those surfaces.


And yet again I repeat.... *YOUR *target market "weekend warrior, or any new person wanting to start moving into clip in pedals" is going to be doing a bit of walking in exactly those environments. 




> But I'm sure that you can understand that it can be done.


Uhhh no. According to Adam it was an "egregious issue" and "found it extremely difficult to walk into the office or a coffee shop wearing the cleats. The cleats protrude quite far from the front of the foot, so you can’t even feign a normal gait."


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## dir-t (Oct 14, 2005)

tlg said:


> And yet again I repeat.... *YOUR *target market "weekend warrior, or any new person wanting to start moving into clip in pedals" is going to be doing a bit of walking in exactly those environments.


I'm not interested in these pedals and also think they're a solution to a non-problem. But...

I'm really surprised how many of you think the ability to walk into a store is an issue. Seriously, in 15 years of road riding I can count the number of times I've entered a store or gas station on one hand. I think new riders would be even less apt to do so given that they may not yet be comfortable being seen in lycra - why draw even more attention to yourself by strutting into Starbucks?

My Look Keo cleats absolutely suck to walk in too.


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## QuiQuaeQuod (Jan 24, 2003)

Pitbull Pedal said:


> I guess if you were to look at these pedals as a danger you could somehow come up with that thought. In our opinion, with the large blunt end we believe it would be virtually impossible to impale yourself or someone with the pedal.


Oh, opinion! Well then, I am sure that's just fine then. Of course you could do a simple test, if you wanted more than opinion.


Get two pork shoulders. 

Lay the bike on the ground, then drop one of the pork shoulders on your pedal from saddle height. Make sure the fleshy part is going to make contact, not the (relatively small) bone.

Do the same thing to any other pedal on the market.

That is a MINIMAL force situation, Any real world accident will have more forces involved for sure.


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## tlg (May 11, 2011)

dir-t said:


> I'm not interested in these pedals and also think they're a solution to a non-problem. But...
> 
> I'm really surprised how many of you think the ability to walk into a store is an issue. Seriously, in 15 years of road riding I can count the number of times I've entered a store or gas station on one hand. I think new riders would be even less apt to do so given that they may not yet be comfortable being seen in lycra - why draw even more attention to yourself by strutting into Starbucks?


Different strokes for different folks. 

I do it at least once a week, along with the dozen or so fellow riders I ride with. And the club I belong to (several hundred members) with the various paced groups almost all stop somewhere mid ride whether it be a grocery store, convenience store, coffee shop, or bakery. The slower paced newer riders and weekend warriors... sometimes 2-3 stops. 

Yea... it's very common. Everyone's over worrying about "strutting" around in lycra.


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## dir-t (Oct 14, 2005)

tlg said:


> Yea... it's very common.


Maybe it's a regional thing.

Edit to elaborate: Once I pedal about 5 miles in any direction, I'm not in the vicinity of a business etc. for another 30 miles. By the time I may want to take a break, I'm either home or have food in my pockets. I can't imagine eating a big lunch on a road ride though.


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## Pitbull Pedal (Feb 19, 2018)

tlg said:


> And yet again I repeat.... *YOUR *target market "weekend warrior, or any new person wanting to start moving into clip in pedals" is going to be doing a bit of walking in exactly those environments.
> 
> 
> Uhhh no. According to Adam it was an "egregious issue" and "found it extremely difficult to walk into the office or a coffee shop wearing the cleats. The cleats protrude quite far from the front of the foot, so you can’t even feign a normal gait."


tlg, I have gone over this multiple times. They are not walking shoes. If you or others think that you cannot walk into a store with these to get a drink or something, I don't know what else to say. It is possible, they're not mountain bike shoes, they are road bike shoes. Everyone who walks in road bike shoes looks like they walk awkward, these are no different. I can only say that I can drop you at 90% of every stop sign and road light that the group stop at.




dir-t said:


> I'm not interested in these pedals and also think they're a solution to a non-problem. But...
> 
> I'm really surprised how many of you think the ability to walk into a store is an issue. Seriously, in 15 years of road riding I can count the number of times I've entered a store or gas station on one hand. I think new riders would be even less apt to do so given that they may not yet be comfortable being seen in lycra - why draw even more attention to yourself by strutting into Starbucks?
> 
> My Look Keo cleats absolutely suck to walk in too.


Thank you, I basically am agreeing with you. Except I've seen on many group rides, and clips on Youtube, people missing their pedals. Even some professional riders. In my mind there is Ford that makes 5 different models, Chevy that makes 5 different models, BMW, etc. there is only a few different models of clip in pedals and I feel ours are far superior to clip into.




QuiQuaeQuod said:


> Oh, opinion! Well then, I am sure that's just fine then. Of course you could do a simple test, if you wanted more than opinion.
> 
> 
> Get two pork shoulders.
> ...


I'm not going to waste my money to buy a perfectly good piece of meat and drop it on the pedal. I 100% do not believe that it would pierce from saddle height, it may leave you with a nasty bruise, but I cannot believe that you would be gored. Unlike my partner who simply with his old pedals, did not clip out soon enough and fell over, which lead to the big ring gashing his leg.





tlg said:


> Different strokes for different folks.
> 
> I do it at least once a week, along with the dozen or so fellow riders I ride with. And the club I belong to (several hundred members) with the various paced groups almost all stop somewhere mid ride whether it be a grocery store, convenience store, coffee shop, or bakery. The slower paced newer riders and weekend warriors... sometimes 2-3 stops.
> 
> Yea... it's very common. Everyone's over worrying about "strutting" around in lycra.


When I bought my first high end road bike 5 years ago, I was extremely concerned about wearing a kit. But as I have gotten much, much better I have no problem going into a store with my kit on. I would have to think that most new riders are a little self-conscious wearing a somewhat of a banana hammock in the beginning. 





dir-t said:


> Maybe it's a regional thing.
> 
> Edit to elaborate: Once I pedal about 5 miles in any direction, I'm not in the vicinity of a business etc. for another 30 miles. By the time I may want to take a break, I'm either home or have food in my pockets. I can't imagine eating a big lunch on a road ride though.


Just as an example, we have a ride in Clermont called The Horrible Hundred. It has 3 or 4 designated stops with fruit, gatorade, etc. So it is not uncommon to get off the bike on longer rides.


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## factory feel (Nov 27, 2009)

No way I'd walk into Starbucks with those Fred Astaire floor tile destroyers!


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## tomato coupe (Nov 8, 2009)

Pitbull Pedal said:


> The *only objective* for these pedals is to get into the first time, every time without having to orientate the pedal.


I think that is the problem. For most cyclists, clipping in is not a big issue. There are other issues that are important, but you are largely dismissing them. I think what many people on this forum are telling you is that the negative aspects of your pedals outweigh the one positive aspect.


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## tlg (May 11, 2011)

Pitbull Pedal said:


> tlg, I have gone over this multiple times. They are not walking shoes.


Yea, we get it... they're not sneakers.  You keep missing the point. Who do you think will be buying your pedals? YOUR target market "weekend warrior, or any new person wanting to start moving into clip in pedals" 
"THOSE" people are going to care a LOT more about being able to walk in them than being able to clip in. I can (and have) taught beginner riders to clip into regular pedals in a few minutes. It's not that hard.

People who aren't too concerned with walking in shoes simply aren't going to buy your pedal. Because... they already know how to clip into pedals. 

I seriously suggest doing market research before you invest a lot of money into your product!



> I can only say that I can drop you at 90% of every stop sign and road light that the group stop at.


Uhhh no. I seen your videos, and no you can't. I can clip in just as fast as you.


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## cxwrench (Nov 9, 2004)

tlg said:


> Yea, we get it... they're not sneakers.  You keep missing the point. Who do you think will be buying your pedals? YOUR target market "weekend warrior, or any new person wanting to start moving into clip in pedals"
> "THOSE" people are going to care a LOT more about being able to walk in them than being able to clip in. I can (and have) taught beginner riders to clip into regular pedals in a few minutes. It's not that hard.
> 
> People who aren't too concerned with walking in shoes simply aren't going to buy your pedal. Because... they already know how to clip into pedals.
> ...


He doesn't know what 'Q' factor means...he's not going to understand what we've been telling him.


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## Oxtox (Aug 16, 2006)

tomato coupe said:


> For most cyclists, clipping in is not a big issue.


yep, even clumsy types are completely confident with clipless pedals after less than a half-dozen rides.

using them is not a big deal, it's not a pervasive problem begging for a solution.


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## factory feel (Nov 27, 2009)

This is like what was said a few pages back and is akin to incorporating a saddle into your spandex cycling shorts!


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## No Time Toulouse (Sep 7, 2016)

Man, this thread just will not die.......


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## factory feel (Nov 27, 2009)

No Time Toulouse said:


> Man, this thread just will not die.......


well yeah not if you keep relying.....oh wait


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## QuiQuaeQuod (Jan 24, 2003)

Pitbull Pedal said:


> I'm not going to waste my money to buy a perfectly good piece of meat and drop it on the pedal. I 100% do not believe that it would pierce from saddle height, it may leave you with a nasty bruise, but I cannot believe that you would be gored. Unlike my partner who simply with his old pedals, did not clip out soon enough and fell over, which lead to the big ring gashing his leg.


Belief to back opinion. Great. 

Data trumps belief.

Last pork shoulder aka butt I bought cost me $11 on sale. Full price is $1.99/lb so around $15. Plus, it would not be wasted at all. Rinse it off, cut out any damage, then cook it. 12 hours in a smoker, or slather it with spice and herb and roast it in 3 hours or so. Or carnitas. Makes good sausages too.

So, $30 to test it and potentially shut up some critics is, in your mind, too expensive, a waste? That shows that you care more for $30 of your marketing and/or R&D money than rider safety.

That speaks to your confidence in your product, and to your character.

I will point out that ANYONE here could do that test, all they need to know is the exact diameter of the outside of the pedal. Care to share that measurement? Maybe you have already, but you really don't have to, it would be pretty simple to scale a good estimate from images, if anyone wants to go to the pixel counting level.

Please, continue tarnishing your brand before it ever hits the market.


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## QuiQuaeQuod (Jan 24, 2003)

QuiQuaeQuod said:


> I will point out that ANYONE here could do that test, all they need to know is the exact diameter of the outside of the pedal.


Actually, I am sure there are those here who would enjoy running the numbers and tell us what might happen. BTW, pork with the skin on is a very good analogue for human, so feel free to use the numbers for human skin, if anyone goes this route.

The math costs $0 in supplies.


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## tlg (May 11, 2011)

QuiQuaeQuod said:


> I will point out that ANYONE here could do that test, all they need to know is the exact diameter of the outside of the pedal. Care to share that measurement? Maybe you have already, but you really don't have to, it would be pretty simple to scale a good estimate from images, if anyone wants to go to the pixel counting level.


Very simple. He provided a semi-dimensioned drawing a few pages back. Easy to scale the diameter. 3/4". Maybe a little less? The latest photos, the head looks to have a smaller shoulder.


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## QuiQuaeQuod (Jan 24, 2003)

QuiQuaeQuod said:


> The math costs $0 in supplies.


Pork shoulders are 8-10 lbs. Human head, 11. Call it 5000g to make the math easy.


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## QuiQuaeQuod (Jan 24, 2003)

tlg said:


> The latest photos, the head looks to have a smaller shoulder.


Which would make a difference.

I hope people drag this out step by step.


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## OldZaskar (Jul 1, 2009)

I think you'd first have to determine the force of an average crash, e.g. 180 lbs rider, 20 mph, etc. Gets complicated - crash, roll, deceleration, etc. Maybe borrow crash data from other studies - like concussions, clavicles, etc. 

In the end, it may mean dropping the 8 lb pork shoulder from X height, factoring in the 9.8 m/s/s formula. 

Yeah... this thread's not gonna die ;-)


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## QuiQuaeQuod (Jan 24, 2003)

OldZaskar said:


> I think you'd first have to determine the force of an average crash, e.g. 180 lbs rider, 20 mph, etc. Gets complicated - crash, roll, deceleration, etc. Maybe borrow crash data from other studies - like concussions, clavicles, etc.


Very true.

But we should be able to isolate the forces in many types of contact scenarios coming from the acceleration of gravity. Bodies are a certain height, they fall to the pedal. Tip over situation, trip situation, pretty close. Active crash, well, I would assume a lot greater forces involved.

For example, a rolling person can whip a leg pretty fast.

I would never ask for a full on analysis from pros, for free. But simple back of the envelope? That I feel good putting out there.


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## tomato coupe (Nov 8, 2009)

OldZaskar said:


> This shot - okay, any shot - of the pedals mounted... yikes! And people thought discs were scary in group rides/races.
> 
> View attachment 323911


If Vlad the Impaler was a cyclist, he would use these pedals.


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## Pitbull Pedal (Feb 19, 2018)

QuiQuaeQuod said:


> Belief to back opinion. Great.
> Data trumps belief.
> Last pork shoulder aka butt I bought cost me $11 on sale. Full price is $1.99/lb so around $15. Plus, it would not be wasted at all. Rinse it off, cut out any damage, then cook it. 12 hours in a smoker, or slather it with spice and herb and roast it in 3 hours or so. Or carnitas. Makes good sausages too.
> So, $30 to test it and potentially shut up some critics is, in your mind, too expensive, a waste? That shows that you care more for $30 of your marketing and/or R&D money than rider safety.
> ...


You have stepped over the line attacking my character. I assure you that all of the people who know me personally would let you know what kind of person I truly am. Obviously if I am riding a 10k bicycle I can afford to buy a pork shoulder. I personally just thought that it is an idiotic way to test if this pedal system would impale a person. We all have our own opinions, and I'm sure yours is very important to you. I would have to think that a wreck at 25 or 30 mph would have much more of a chance for the pedal to do damage than to drop the pork roast from saddle height. I just cannot believe with all of the other dangers of riding a bike at speed, in a group, that I have to spend so much attention to my pedal possibly impaling a person. Again, that is just my opinion.





QuiQuaeQuod said:


> Actually, I am sure there are those here who would enjoy running the numbers and tell us what might happen. BTW, pork with the skin on is a very good analogue for human, so feel free to use the numbers for human skin, if anyone goes this route.
> 
> The math costs $0 in supplies.


Let me know what happens, I am curious to know what would happen.




tlg said:


> Very simple. He provided a semi-dimensioned drawing a few pages back. Easy to scale the diameter. 3/4". Maybe a little less? The latest photos, the head looks to have a smaller shoulder.


What you are saying is correct. It is a large blunt end with slide radiuses on the outside perimeter. 




QuiQuaeQuod said:


> Which would make a difference.
> I hope people drag this out step by step.


Ok




OldZaskar said:


> I think you'd first have to determine the force of an average crash, e.g. 180 lbs rider, 20 mph, etc. Gets complicated - crash, roll, deceleration, etc. Maybe borrow crash data from other studies - like concussions, clavicles, etc.
> 
> In the end, it may mean dropping the 8 lb pork shoulder from X height, factoring in the 9.8 m/s/s formula.
> 
> Yeah... this thread's not gonna die ;-)


You are obviously a much smarter person than I am. By far. My only point is that with all of the other hazards that are out there riding a bicycle, at a 20mph average speed, there are a million things that could go wrong and cause an injury. I'm not even disagreeing that this could be 100,000,001 cause for an injury.




tomato coupe said:


> If Vlad the Impaler was a cyclist, he would use these pedals.


Nice comparison, but I feel maybe a little excessive.


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## Pitbull Pedal (Feb 19, 2018)

On my end I am going to end all of my discussions about the pedal system being able to walk on a polished tile floor. I went to the local shopping mall, and went inside with my bike shoes on to make an unedited video with my phone. As you will see in the video I can walk all over the place in these shoes. It is truly even easier to walk outside on concrete or asphalt. But as you can see here https://youtu.be/xM-bw3R6qlk you are easily able to walk into a coffee shop or convenience store to buy something to eat or hydrate with. On another note that I hope you can see, there is no damage being done to the floors. Zero!


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## QuiQuaeQuod (Jan 24, 2003)

Pitbull Pedal said:


> You have stepped over the line attacking my character.


Technically, I described it, I did not attack it. Just to be clear. 

You complained about the COST, you certainly did not say the test would prove nothing. You said "I 100% do not believe that it would pierce from saddle height,"....

So, you value your opinion more than finding out by testing that would cost $30 and minutes of time. You are the one who revealed your character, I just made it explicit. 

If you have a problem, report me to the moderators. I am sure they will evaluate things, including you using this community for marketing, as opposed to being a part of it and contributing in other areas of the site.

Which, if you think about it, also speaks to character.


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## tlg (May 11, 2011)

Pitbull Pedal said:


> You have stepped over the line attacking my character. I assure you that all of the people who know me personally would let you know what kind of person I truly am. Obviously if I am riding a 10k bicycle I can afford to buy a pork shoulder. I personally just thought that it is an idiotic way to test if this pedal system would impale a person.


Actually it's the perfect way. Pork (with skin) is often used as a stand in for human bodies in destructive testing as it's the most similar animal. 



> We all have our own opinions, and I'm sure yours is very important to you. I would have to think that a wreck at 25 or 30 mph would have much more of a chance for the pedal to do damage than to drop the pork roast from saddle height.


You left out the part where QQQ said "That is a MINIMAL force situation, Any real world accident will have more forces involved for sure."

FYI, dropping an object from saddle height will produce a velocity of ~9.5mph. Sounds like a good minimal force situation. 
In lieu of the pork shoulder, you could test it yourself. I'm pretty sure you wouldn't want to run into it, abdomen first, at 9mph. 

To produce 20mph, drop your pork from 14ft.



> I just cannot believe with all of the other dangers of riding a bike at speed, in a group, that I have to spend so much attention to my pedal possibly impaling a person. Again, that is just my opinion.


Uhh yea you need to. You really don't know much about product research, design, and safety.


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## Pitbull Pedal (Feb 19, 2018)

QuiQuaeQuod said:


> Technically, I described it, I did not attack it. Just to be clear.
> 
> You complained about the COST, you certainly did not say the test would prove nothing. You said "I 100% do not believe that it would pierce from saddle height,"....
> 
> ...


By coincidence I had started another thread to show where I keep the inner tube and Co2 on the bike. So I have accomplished what you were referring to. As far as the meat testing, prior I had mentioned that I have no problem in buying the meat and dropping it from saddle height. I just think that with all of the other dangers that are involved with riding a bike at a much higher speed than your casual ride with your family that dropping a piece of meat is going to be the perfect test. If I did wreck, until my foot did disengage/unclip, the entire pedal is covered up with my shoe. Trying to take all factors into consideration. 

Also I wouldn't report anyone to the moderators for just stating what they think. I'm not trying to sell anyone here the pedal or anything else, I'm just trying to have an open conversation and give as many honest answers that I can. But yesterday we did send an email out to Specialized corporate office, giving them our first sales pitch.




tlg said:


> Actually it's the perfect way. Pork (with skin) is often used as a stand in for human bodies in destructive testing as it's the most similar animal.
> 
> You left out the part where QQQ said "That is a MINIMAL force situation, Any real world accident will have more forces involved for sure."
> 
> ...


You are impressing me with your engineering and mathematical skills. Maybe I'll buy the pork shoulder or butt? and try it. Would be fun to record the video, as I've had fun making these. Remember, until the whole fall would happen and my foot would need to disengage, because the pedal is completely covered by my foot,it would need to be the perfect storm for the person (or piece of meat) to hit at the perfect angle and velocity. Which I do suppose would happen.


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## tomato coupe (Nov 8, 2009)

Pitbull Pedal said:


> Remember, until the whole fall would happen and my foot would need to disengage, because the pedal is completely covered by my foot,it would need to be the perfect storm for the person (or piece of meat) to hit at the perfect angle and velocity. Which I do suppose would happen.


A perfect storm?? Have you ever seen a bike crash? Do you think riders are still going to be clipped in when the dust settles? (Was your partner's leg gashed by his chainring while he was still clipped in?)


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## factory feel (Nov 27, 2009)

pitbull, I can't read all the latest posts, but don't you think you've gotten a ton of free advertisement from this website?

where else could you spam to so many people for free??


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## robc in wi (Sep 8, 2011)

I think Pitbull is missing the point that most cyclists are loyal to certain pedal types/brands and aren't likely to change. For me it's SPD SL, 3 different versions on 3 bikes, can walk easily in them, plenty of float, no look clip ins at stop signs and all but the Dura ace are affordable. Same with Crank Bros on my MTB and fat bike. Work well and not likely to change brands.
Float is a big deal for me and Pitbull's pedals have zero. I'm old school and used to straps and fixed cleats back in the 80's and dont miss them.
I do admire his attempt to create a new biking product though.


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## tlg (May 11, 2011)

robc in wi said:


> I think Pitbull is missing the point that most cyclists are loyal to certain pedal types/brands and aren't likely to change. For me it's SPD SL, 3 different versions on 3 bikes, can walk easily in them, plenty of float, *no look clip ins at stop signs *and all but the Dura ace are affordable.


Nope. It's all about the "major problem" of not being able to clip in. Go back to post #1. All this work he's done is because he couldn't clip into pedals. 



Pitbull Pedal said:


> As I would frequently miss clipping into my other pedals while riding in a group, with this you're gonna get in virtually 100% of the time.


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## dir-t (Oct 14, 2005)

Pitbull Pedal said:


> it would need to be the perfect storm for the person (or piece of meat) to hit at the perfect angle and velocity. Which I do suppose would happen.


I agree with you on this. 

There are plenty of freak things that can happen on a bike but I don't think the exposed pedal spindle present very much addition danger. I used to ride bikes with kickstands and freestyle pegs and lived to tell the tale.

Meanwhile, I have a friend who impaled his calf on a BMX brake lever and nearly core-sampled his groin on a handlebar (always install your bar end plugs folks). My wife got stitches from her chainring, and I nearly lopped off a finger with my spokes while trying to clear something from my wheel (stupid mistake). A friend of friend is currently recovering from a fractured tibia and broken hip (!) resulting from getting his leg tangled up in his front triangle during a relatively slow speed crash.


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## GKSki (Nov 12, 2014)

Anyone that's been in a road cycling crash can attest to the fact that you come out of the pedals immediately without any thought process. It just happens without you even knowing. So, indeed these pedals are weapons capable of impaling another rider.

It will be interesting to see what the CPSC has to say once these make it to market. Perhaps a good idea to run them by them now. They sure look to put riders in much more danger than that "lawyer tabs" are intended to prevent.


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## factory feel (Nov 27, 2009)

Pedals of Doom !


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## Pitbull Pedal (Feb 19, 2018)

tomato coupe said:


> A perfect storm?? Have you ever seen a bike crash? Do you think riders are still going to be clipped in when the dust settles? (Was your partner's leg gashed by his chainring while he was still clipped in?)


He was unclipped. He got the cut on the left calf. We believe that the right pedal had stayed clipped somehow. As far as crashes go, I've had 3 major crashes. All 3 times I would of not received any injury from a 3/4" blunt pedal. Here is one of the crazy wrecks, somehow (again the perfect storm) I hit a small piece of an Oak tree that had fallen off onto the sidewalk. It would fit in the palm of your hand. It was dark and I just didn't see it. I must've hit at exactly the perfect angle and this was my resulting road rash.
View attachment 323969





factory feel said:


> pitbull, I can't read all the latest posts, but don't you think you've gotten a ton of free advertisement from this website?
> 
> where else could you spam to so many people for free??


I've actually never used a forum before. I don't even see it as an advertisement as I'm not trying to sell it to any single individuals, I've just had fun making posts and seeing what people have to say, and answering questions as honestly as I know how.




robc in wi said:


> I think Pitbull is missing the point that most cyclists are loyal to certain pedal types/brands and aren't likely to change. For me it's SPD SL, 3 different versions on 3 bikes, can walk easily in them, plenty of float, no look clip ins at stop signs and all but the Dura ace are affordable. Same with Crank Bros on my MTB and fat bike. Work well and not likely to change brands.
> Float is a big deal for me and Pitbull's pedals have zero. I'm old school and used to straps and fixed cleats back in the 80's and dont miss them.
> I do admire his attempt to create a new biking product though.


I think you may of misunderstood one the posts I had made. They would be offered with float as well, the decision would just need to be made before deciding on which to buy. As far as all the pedals that you have mentioned, I'm sure that they work good for you, just like there are so many different models of car, I'm just trying to slide one more into the group that I do believe works exceptionally well.



dir-t said:


> I agree with you on this.
> 
> There are plenty of freak things that can happen on a bike but I don't think the exposed pedal spindle present very much addition danger. I used to ride bikes with kickstands and freestyle pegs and lived to tell the tale.
> 
> Meanwhile, I have a friend who impaled his calf on a BMX brake lever and nearly core-sampled his groin on a handlebar (always install your bar end plugs folks). My wife got stitches from her chainring, and I nearly lopped off a finger with my spokes while trying to clear something from my wheel (stupid mistake). A friend of friend is currently recovering from a fractured tibia and broken hip (!) resulting from getting his leg tangled up in his front triangle during a relatively slow speed crash.


I agree




GKSki said:


> Anyone that's been in a road cycling crash can attest to the fact that you come out of the pedals immediately without any thought process. It just happens without you even knowing. So, indeed these pedals are weapons capable of impaling another rider.
> 
> It will be interesting to see what the CPSC has to say once these make it to market. Perhaps a good idea to run them by them now. They sure look to put riders in much more danger than that "lawyer tabs" are intended to prevent.


Thanks for the idea, I'll check into it. It is a 3/4" diameter flat with radius edges. Nothing sharp on it.


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## Pitbull Pedal (Feb 19, 2018)

View attachment 323970

I don't know if factory feel will consider this spam, but anyone want to buy a hot rod? I'm sure we can find a way to put a bike rack on it.


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## GKSki (Nov 12, 2014)

That's not a road racing crash. You don't stay clipped in either side in a real crash while road racing, unless you just avoid the crash.

I will say it, I would initiate a rider protest to not be involved racing against anyone with those pedals. Almost the same reason that mass start racing does not allow clip on bars. Not even sure if Scott Drop-ins or other variations are allowed any longer by USA Cycling or the UCI.


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## tomato coupe (Nov 8, 2009)

Pitbull Pedal said:


> He was unclipped. He got the cut on the left calf. We believe that the right pedal had stayed clipped somehow.


Your friend managed to slice his _left _calf on his chainring while his right foot was still clipped in, yet you can't imagine how your pedals could lead to an injury? 



> As far as crashes go, I've had 3 major crashes. All 3 times I would of not received any injury from a 3/4" blunt pedal.


In my last three crashes I would not have been injured by a Bowie knife taped to my handlebars. By your logic, riding with a large knife attached to one's handlebars is therefore perfectly safe.


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## cxwrench (Nov 9, 2004)

Pitbull Pedal said:


> All 3 times I *would of *not received any injury from a 3/4" blunt pedal.


Would *have*. Sorry, that's just one of my pet peeves.


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## factory feel (Nov 27, 2009)

It don't matter.


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## Lombard (May 8, 2014)

cxwrench said:


> Would *have*. Sorry, that's just one of my pet peeves.


I would have just said would've.


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## Pitbull Pedal (Feb 19, 2018)

GKSki said:


> That's not a road racing crash. You don't stay clipped in either side in a real crash while road racing, unless you just avoid the crash.
> 
> I will say it, I would initiate a rider protest to not be involved racing against anyone with those pedals. Almost the same reason that mass start racing does not allow clip on bars. Not even sure if Scott Drop-ins or other variations are allowed any longer by USA Cycling or the UCI.


All this is valid information, but I really don't know if all that is my intended market. I think that I would just be weekend warriors, new people trying to learn how to use clip in, etc.




tomato coupe said:


> Your friend managed to slice his _left _calf on his chainring while his right foot was still clipped in, yet you can't imagine how your pedals could lead to an injury?
> 
> 
> 
> In my last three crashes I would not have been injured by a Bowie knife taped to my handlebars. By your logic, riding with a large knife attached to one's handlebars is therefore perfectly safe.


I really don't understand what you're trying to say. I don't see how you can compare the two in any form or fashion. But that is your opinion, which is valid.




cxwrench said:


> Would *have*. Sorry, that's just one of my pet peeves.


My bad.


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## Pitbull Pedal (Feb 19, 2018)

I just want to thank everyone who has participated in this discussion. Some points I have learned and I'm happy that I did. As we added the large 3/4" blunt end to the pedal. I think I'm even going to try the idea of a camelbak under my shirt to help clean up the bike visually. Anyway I'm going to stop this thread unless anything of value comes up, and I'll be more than happy to respond. We are also looking to seek out one or two more reputable companies to review the pedal. If we're fortunate enough to get more reviews, I'll post the link.

Thanks again to everyone, and stay safe.
PB


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## OwenMeany (Mar 17, 2002)

"We've found that no float is the way to go" For you perhaps, but not for 75% of the cycling community. This fact alone is a 100% deal breaker for me.


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