# Spinning vs. Pedal Mashing???



## TallCoolOne

This is the start of my 3rd season of riding. I am a training for Ride Across Indiana (160 mile ride) and usually do solo rides around 16 mph and group rides between 17 and 20 mph on mostly rolling terrain. 

When I do solo rides I try to keep my cadence between 85 and 95 rpm. When I do gorup rides I cannot keep up with the groups I ride with unless I move up in gear and drop my cadence to the mid 70's to 80. 

Yesterday I did a 74 mile solo ride. With 27 miles to go, my shifter cable that leads to my rear derailler severed and came out of my shifter/brake hood. That left me in the 11 tooth cog in my cassette for the rest of the ride home. At that point I told myself to drop the cadence way down and not push too hard on the pedals to save my knees. What I found was that I was climbing 1 to 3% incline hills much faster than I normally do and I didn't feel like I was beating myself up too bad. The only negative was that with 2 miles to go I started cramping some but this ride was the longest ride of my life and it was riding in a totally different way than I was accustomed. 

Is there anything wrong with riding at a low cadence? It appears I am faster mashing big gears than I am when I try to spin.


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## locustfist

Depends on you and your build.

Some are more comfortable in lower cadence/bigger gear (70 RPM-ish)

Some prefer a higher cadence in a lower gear...I'm reminded of Jan Ulrich vs. Lance in the tour

Jan liked to push a big gear and lance preferred to spin






in my experience bigger riders that i know like to mash and skinny guys like to spin


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## bikerjohn64

There's nothing "wrong" with either styles. Two examples are Lance with his high cadence and Jan Ulrich in the opposite style. 
It will take some time for your body to adjusting to one style from the other but whatever works for you is what you should go with and then you will have the best of both world having the ability to mash when needed and use high cadence for any quick sprint efforts. 
I changed from riding a lower gear to spinning more because of my knee problem and overall it took me about a year to slowly adjust my riding to spinning. I am still able to mash up a short climbs keeping my speed up so I've still retained that ability too. 
I'm sure that others will chime in with their recommendations but there's nothing wrong with your discovery; enjoy and good luck on your ride!


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## locustfist

bikerjohn64 said:


> There's nothing with either styles. Two examples are Lance with his high cadence and Jan Ulrich in the opposite style.


hahaha...we must have been posting at the same time


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## jnbrown

I usually spin more 90-100 rpm.
There are times when I feel better at lower cadence.
You can train for either and I would argue that you can do both.


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## TallCoolOne

I just know what happened when Jan went head to head vs. Lance....Low cadence lost. But, my body build is a lot closer to Jan Ulrich than Lance Armstrong. Not that I am anywhere close to either athlete in terms of ability.


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## bikerjohn64

locustfist said:


> hahaha...we must have been posting at the same time


 I guess so. It was the first comparison I thought of when I read the question. I also realized that I forgot to include the word "wrong" in that opening sentence. Oops.


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## locustfist

TallCoolOne said:


> I just know what happened when Jan went head to head vs. Lance....Low cadence lost. But, my body build is a lot closer to Jan Ulrich than Lance Armstrong. Not that I am anywhere close to either athlete in terms of ability.


Sure Lance won...but there were a lot of high cadence spinners that Jan Ulrich beat. He took second in the video i posted of the Alpe Du'ez uphill time trial.


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## jnbrown

Tour de France 2003 - Jan Ullrich time trial - YouTube


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## JustTooBig

the simple answer is to find the cadence range that's the most comfortable for you and go with it. *


* the caveat is that your ideal cadence range may change with effort level. All I can provide is my own anecdotal evidence based on personal experience...

at "tempo" pace, I am best able to produce the desired power for extended periods of time by using a cadence in the 75-80rpm range. Yeah, that's pretty low but if I try to increase my cadence -- while maintaining the same power -- I see my heart rate start to go up. I have to drop my cadence to get my HR back down. On the other hand, if I'm at threshold level (pretty close to all-out effort), I use a cadence of 95-105 most effectively. So ... what feels right at the given moment is the "right" cadence.


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## new2rd

I'm noticing the same thing with tempo riding. I did almost 3 hrs today with an average of 139 HR which is right where I wanted to be. My HR seems to follow my cadence, I would have a lower HR with a 75-85 cadence, same speed with easier gear and a 95 cadence would increase HR 7-10 BPM. My normal cadence wants to be in the mid to high 90s, but my HR would be higher. Today keeping my HR lower the average cadence was 82


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## asgelle

locustfist said:


> Some prefer a higher cadence in a lower gear...I'm reminded of Jan Ulrich vs. Lance in the tour
> 
> Jan liked to push a big gear and lance preferred to spin


http://forums.roadbikereview.com/ra...g-cadence-272236-post3769218.html#post3769218


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## Cervelo S-5

TallCoolOne said:


> I just know what happened when Jan went head to head vs. Lance....Low cadence lost. But, my body build is a lot closer to Jan Ulrich than Lance Armstrong. Not that I am anywhere close to either athlete in terms of ability.


Just too big is right ! Find what works for you at the appropriate time and go with it. I have trimmed down from a 220 lb bodybuilder to about 200 now. I will be 190- 195 for the season and I have never been a masher and would way rather spin myself. Climbing in a lower gear 70-80 RPM @ 8-10 %:cryin: and TT efforts 90% max hr at 85-90 RPM:cryin: seems to work best for me. There are times when I feel really good and want to hurt the field and will jump these gears to 100RPM:mad2: but it depends on the day and the circumstances!

Cheers and ride safely!:thumbsup:


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## Britishbane

Hey next time that happens, take the remnants of the wire leading from the RD and put in one of your water bottle bolts, tighten that sucker down, pull wire to give you whatever cog you want it on, tighten all the way. BAM! out of the 11.


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## TallCoolOne

Britishbane said:


> Hey next time that happens, take the remnants of the wire leading from the RD and put in one of your water bottle bolts, tighten that sucker down, pull wire to give you whatever cog you want it on, tighten all the way. BAM! out of the 11.


WOW...GREAT TIP!!!! I wish I would have thought of that at the time. Hopefully there won't be a next time for me to use it.


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## spokenwald

*have fun*

After riding for 43 years , whether racing, training or touring; the key is always to have fun even when working hard at it. I always remember what the masters say about spinning and how it always pays off and keeps you fresh. You want to be able to ride the next day with enjoyment and not a feeling of drudgery. Pounding the gears will slow you down after a while. Unless you're Fracesco Moser.


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## bytewalls

It is all about efficiency, find what uses the least energy to go the fastest for you. Do what feels the most comfortable and such. That said I'm a strong believer in there being a time for both and training for both, for instance it is very hard to sprint and pedal mash at the same time.


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## carbonframe47

Still learning how to ride third summer in, but I used to mash and push as hard as I could, pretty much edge of threshold all the time. After doing a real number on my knees I decided to try a new approach: stay in small chainring as much as possible and lower gears in general as much as possible, BUT keep my overall cadence higher. To my amazement, I've been able to go almost as fast on average, but at like a tenth of the energy cost. Spinning in low gear, I'm barely breathing hard at all, conversational breathing tone all the time. Even the short steep hills that I used to attack in the highest gear possible and would just about crush me, now I spin up at 85rpms and get to the top barely breathing hard at all!


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## asgelle

carbonframe47 said:


> To my amazement, I've been able to go almost as fast on average, but at like a tenth of the energy cost.


Now why did you have to go and put this in? Still I'm willing to suspend judgement if you can provide any data to back this up.


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## Ghost234

I'm fairly light (145lbs) and find that I tend to mash the pedals a little more when climbing. There is nothing wrong with that. I found what works for me and I stick to it. I do suffer quite a bit when my cadence drops bellow 75rpm seated however, but at that point I usually start standing. 

But generally speaking I tend to try and keep my cadence around 95rpm when I'm on flat/slight grade because it will allow me the potential to respond to attacks much quicker. I find that if I am in a heavy gear it is often too difficult to spin the legs up to respond.


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## Alkan

My roommate was a sprinter in high school (really damn good at it too) and he bikes with a pretty low cadence for very long distances at good speed. He spins closer to 65-70 rpm. He biked up Mount Lemmon in around 2:45, 30 miles, 6200 ft elevation change.

Though, I was going up that mountain and was passed by a group of guys moving along at like 15-17 mph. One of them was on a fixed gear bike.


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## Alkan

bikesales said:


> I would say spinning.


He's in his third season and finds that a lower cadence is better for him. I think you've got it wrong here given both of these anecdotes. Some people do better at lower cadences, some do better at higher.


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## velocanman

You basically stumbled into an effective training method to increase leg strength. Slower cadence and higher gearing is a great way to develop cycling-specific leg strength. But you don't want to overdue it and I wouldn't incorporate that more than once a week.

If you are correct about riding at 85-95 rpms on solo efforts, that is a good cadence. But if you can't hold that cadence at higher speeds in group rides you need to get stronger and/or more efficient at speed.

If I was coaching you I would recommend you mix in solo higher-cadence sessions into your training, as well. Around 90-100 rpms. Nothing severe, just challenge your muscles to respond and work at the higher speeds.

If you can develop faster turnover you SHOULD be able to ride farther at the same speed (not necessarily faster) than at a lower cadence. You somewhat experienced this when you started cramping from mashing out the gear.


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## hummina shadeeba

What about me? I spin like 120rpm always. I rarely come across anyone that spins as much. I can maintain a pace in races but when there are surges i instictually spin faster to catch n I blow up. I decided to try mashing at the end of my ride once a week n see if I can develop some of the other stuff, n I used to ride a single speed up anything, mashing and standing but Im still stuck at like 120rpms after it all. It's in ones blood.. or genes.


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## Bail_Monkey

I'm starting to spin quite a bit more (as an older cyclist). I use to mash going uphill to achieve faster times, but I feel that it is taking a toll on my left knee.

I say to keep spinning if you intend to last years in this sport. The less stress on your body parts the better.


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