# CX's examples of how not to take care of your bike...



## cxwrench (Nov 9, 2004)

Ok, it's Monday so let's kick this thing off. This will be mostly advisory stuff, I'll make an effort to make sure no one gets butthurt. I'm reasonably sure you'll see some things in here that you've never seen before. 

I'll start off with a bearing from a Trek BB90. It's not just 'worn', it's 'worn the F out'. This is what happens when you ride in all conditions, ignore maintenance, and pay no attention to whatever strange noises are coming from your bike. In this particular case it could have been a click from the bearing race wear or a creak from the corrosion on the outside of the bearing itself moving very slightly against the carbon bb shell. In this case it went wayyyy beyond that and the owner thought the crank was loose because there was so much movement. The crank axle was rusted to the inner race of the non-drive side bearing. Normally you can just take the NDS arm off and pull the DS out (Shimano crank). Not this time. I needed to spray PB Blaster on it daily for 3 days then hammer the crank out, at that time the inner race and balls came out leaving the outer race stuck in the frame. Time for more PB Blaster and then a propane torch. I managed to pry it out after a few tries. 

Takeaway: Pay attention to maintenance and noises that you haven't heard before. Please.


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## No Time Toulouse (Sep 7, 2016)

Pics, please......


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## bmach (Apr 13, 2011)

Good first post


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## Fredrico (Jun 15, 2002)

Let's give CX a rousing round of applause for bailing out the clueless idiot who saddled him with this repair! :yesnod: 

Seriously, riders have no idea the challenges mechanics have to overcome to get the job done. Good for ya, CX! You da man! :thumbsup:


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## Lombard (May 8, 2014)

And to think people whine about how much bike maintenance/repair costs.


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## tlg (May 11, 2011)

Subscribed


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## OldZaskar (Jul 1, 2009)

CX, hit us with the funny stuff too - you know, the ones the customers bring in and you have do your best to keep a poker face as you explain the errs of their ways. 

Example: A friend brought a kid's bike to my house that was "... just unridable - the brakes, gears, nothing works right" I looked at the bike... rotated the handlebar 360 degrees and said "There ya go." 

I can imagine you've seen some ridiculous stuff over the years


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## SPlKE (Sep 10, 2007)

tlg said:


> Subscribed


Ditto.


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## cxwrench (Nov 9, 2004)

Today it's a combination of over lubrication and lack of cleaning. You only need a drop of lube on each roller and when you're done applying the lube the most important step is to wipe off the excess so you don't get this:










I really don't understand how anyone can think this is a good thing:










How are you going to ride w/o ruining every piece of clothing you have on? All the extra wasted lube coats everything that doesn't need lubrication and makes sure that every last bit of dirt and grit sticks to it making a pretty effective grinding paste. This will accelerate wear on your chain, cogs, and chainrings...not make them last longer. 










Bringing a bike in for a tune up like this is akin to wolfing down a nice combo pizza directly before showing up for your cleaning appt at the dentist. If you're going to take the time to lubricate your chain please make an effort to avoid an environmental disaster, your mechanic (and whoever does your laundry) will appreciate it.


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## SPlKE (Sep 10, 2007)

That one looks more like eating a box of Oreos on the way to the dentist.


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## cxwrench (Nov 9, 2004)

OldZaskar said:


> CX, hit us with the funny stuff too - you know, the ones the customers bring in and you have do your best to keep a poker face as you explain the errs of their ways.
> 
> Example: A friend brought a kid's bike to my house that was "... just unridable - the brakes, gears, nothing works right" I looked at the bike... rotated the handlebar 360 degrees and said "There ya go."
> 
> I can imagine you've seen some ridiculous stuff over the years


That one is a classic! Guy called yesterday about doing the 'break-in' tune up on his kid's bike. 16" w/ coaster brake.


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## hfc (Jan 24, 2003)

^^^^

Rule of thumb if you have to take a shower after putting a dropped chain back on you probably need to dial back the lube and up the routine cleaning.


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## No Time Toulouse (Sep 7, 2016)

Hey, post some pics of all the clueless ways people tighten down their quick-releases!


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## duriel (Oct 10, 2013)

Who posted my Ultegra RD online?


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## Kuma601 (Jan 22, 2004)

The crowd that applies the "more is better" thought to doing things. Has this been seen on any Campy Record or Dura Ace equipped bikes?


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## old_fuji (Mar 16, 2009)

cxwrench said:


> Today it's a combination of over lubrication and lack of cleaning. You only need a drop of lube on each roller and when you're done applying the lube the most important step is to wipe off the excess so you don't get this:


Learning moment:

How can I avoid being this guy?

Generally, what I do when lubin' my chain is this: Spin the cranks backwards and apply degreaser...let the chain do a few revolutions, then get my rag and sorta pinch it around the chain to soak up whatever degreaser I used, as well as the old lube. Again, spinning the cranks backwards, I apply a small stream of oil to the chain (at the cassette) and let it go for one revolution, using the master link as a reference, then stop using the oil. I'll flip it around and spin the cranks so that they're driving the wheel for a few rotations, shifting up and down a few times, to get the oil everywhere it needs to be, then go back to spinning it backwards with a rag to finally get all the excess off.

Is that the proper thing to do?


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## cxwrench (Nov 9, 2004)

old_fuji said:


> Learning moment:
> 
> How can I avoid being this guy?
> 
> ...


No, and no. 1 drop per roller, no 'stream'. For whatever reason I do this on the bottom run of chain, not on the cassette. You chain should look pretty much clean ALL the time. I'm not super picky about chain lube as long as you can clean it easily. I hate wax. I cannot recommend Pedro's degreaser enough, the thickish amber colored stuff. I hate aerosol spray degreasers, they have too many solvents and dry off way to quickly. The Pedro's can be brushed on and it stays on the chain and cogs doing it's thing til you wash it off. I used a big car washing sponge and lots of suds to clean the chain after degreasing. Rinse w/ water, dry it, lube it...done.


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## ogre (Dec 16, 2005)

At my first wrenching job in the mid 90s, I noticed where a co-worker had installed some Gore Ride-On cables. He had cut the liner so it was only on the exposed cables between the cable stops. As I recall we actually had some extra liners to salvage that job.


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## cxwrench (Nov 9, 2004)

Correct:










Incorrect:


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## Lombard (May 8, 2014)

cxwrench said:


> Today it's a combination of over lubrication and lack of cleaning. You only need a drop of lube on each roller and when you're done applying the lube the most important step is to wipe off the excess so you don't get this:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


WTF!!! I almost spewed coffee on my computer screen when I saw that middle pic of the dripping derailleur! 

My guess is that the customer took a spray can of his favorite penetrating oil and doused the chain in it. YIKES!


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## Lombard (May 8, 2014)

cxwrench said:


> 1 drop per roller, no 'stream'. For whatever reason I do this on the bottom run of chain, not on the cassette.


This is the way I do it. One drop per roller. Then wipe the outside clean as I run the pedals backwards. Clean when I start ride after lubing, it's always kinda gunky after the first ride. So I wipe the chain again with a WD-40 soaked rag (Mike T.'s method), then give it another clean dry rag wipe. Now it's good until the next lube - 500 miles or until caught in the rain, whichever comes first.


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## old_fuji (Mar 16, 2009)

cxwrench said:


> No, and no. 1 drop per roller, no 'stream'. For whatever reason I do this on the bottom run of chain, not on the cassette. You chain should look pretty much clean ALL the time. I'm not super picky about chain lube as long as you can clean it easily. I hate wax. I cannot recommend Pedro's degreaser enough, the thickish amber colored stuff. I hate aerosol spray degreasers, they have too many solvents and dry off way to quickly. The Pedro's can be brushed on and it stays on the chain and cogs doing it's thing til you wash it off. I used a big car washing sponge and lots of suds to clean the chain after degreasing. Rinse w/ water, dry it, lube it...done.





Lombard said:


> This is the way I do it. One drop per roller. Then wipe the outside clean as I run the pedals backwards. Clean when I start ride after lubing, it's always kinda gunky after the first ride. So I wipe the chain again with a WD-40 soaked rag (Mike T.'s method), then give it another clean dry rag wipe. Now it's good until the next lube - 500 miles or until caught in the rain, whichever comes first.


Thanks guys! I learned something new today :thumbsup:


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## tlg (May 11, 2011)

old_fuji said:


> I apply a small stream of oil to the chain (at the cassette) and let it go for one revolution, using the master link as a reference, then stop using the oil.
> 
> Is that the proper thing to do?


That just wastes lube. (You don't need lube on the cassette) Makes a mess. And increases the probability that you're going to drip oil onto your rim (or disc brake) causing brake squeal and ineffective braking. 



cxwrench said:


> No, and no. 1 drop per roller, no 'stream'. For whatever reason I do this on the bottom run of chain, not on the cassette.


 Doing it on the bottom of the run gives the lube a few seconds to wick into the roller before getting wiped onto the chain rings.
And if you apply too much it's not going to drip on your wheels.

That's my whatever reasons.


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## QuiQuaeQuod (Jan 24, 2003)

old_fuji said:


> Thanks guys! I learned something new today :thumbsup:


I don't use a drop, nor do I use a stream. I use a partial drop per roller. Basically I open the bottle until it will drip but not run out, then put the tip on the bottom run of chain and backpedal. The chain will take oil that way, but less than a drop per link. Then wipe. Admittedly, that takes some practice to make it apply enough but not too much. 

I do a final step too. When all done and wiped, I pedal the bike with good force on the stand. If it is a parking lot lube (rain during transport, for example), I ride around the parking lot. That forces much of any excess out, for a final wipe. I usually give a quick wipe after the first ride as well, per Lombard. That gets the very last of any excess off.

This has done me well, even for MTB in dry, western USA conditions.


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## DaveG (Feb 4, 2004)

cxwrench said:


> Correct:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I made this very mistake a few weeks ago. The rear wheel kept slipping in the horizontal dropouts every time I applied any serious pedal pressure. After trying max tightness on the QR, I pulled over, pulled the wheel off, and realized I installed the spring backwards


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## DaveG (Feb 4, 2004)

QuiQuaeQuod said:


> I don't use a drop, nor do I use a stream. I use a partial drop per roller. Basically I open the bottle until it will drip but not run out, then put the tip on the bottom run of chain and backpedal. The chain will take oil that way, but less than a drop per link. Then wipe. Admittedly, that takes some practice to make it apply enough but not too much.
> 
> I do a final step too. When all done and wiped, I pedal the bike with good force on the stand. If it is a parking lot lube (rain during transport, for example), I ride around the parking lot. That forces much of any excess out, for a final wipe. I usually give a quick wipe after the first ride as well, per Lombard. That gets the very last of any excess off.
> 
> This has done me well, even for MTB in dry, western USA conditions.


I use homebrew at 4 to 1 ratio. I squirt a stream on the chain, get it wet, than wipe it down multiple times. I don't have the kind of patience it takes to put individual drops on a chain


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## Lombard (May 8, 2014)

DaveG said:


> I use homebrew at 4 to 1 ratio. I squirt a stream on the chain, get it wet, than wipe it down multiple times. I don't have the kind of patience it takes to put individual drops on a chain


I am using a 1 to 1 homebrew with equal parts synthetic motor oil and mineral spirits. What is your 4 to 1 formula?


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## cxwrench (Nov 9, 2004)

DaveG said:


> I use homebrew at 4 to 1 ratio. I squirt a stream on the chain, get it wet, than wipe it down multiple times. I don't have the kind of patience it takes to put individual drops on a chain


Not sure what you're doing, it takes about 5 seconds. As someone else posted you're basically letting the chain pull the drops of lube from the tip of the bottle. No need to laboriously apply one single drop at a time on each roller, just run the chain under the bottle, but w/o squirting it all over.


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## DaveG (Feb 4, 2004)

cxwrench said:


> Not sure what you're doing, it takes about 5 seconds. As someone else posted you're basically letting the chain pull the drops of lube from the tip of the bottle. No need to laboriously apply one single drop at a time on each roller, just run the chain under the bottle, but w/o squirting it all over.


I am cleaning and lubing at the same time. I use homebrew with mostly mineral spirits. Squirt it on, wipe down the chain. I'll repeat if there is still crud coming off on the wiping ray


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## DaveG (Feb 4, 2004)

Lombard said:


> I am using a 1 to 1 homebrew with equal parts synthetic motor oil and mineral spirits. What is your 4 to 1 formula?


4 parts odorless mineral spirits, 1 part motor oil. I have experimented with a higher percentage of oil but I think that just attracts more dirt without any noticeable benefit. Back in the day, it was said that one must use Mobil 1 synthetic. I've used both synthetics and conventional stuff made from dead dinosaurs and I highly doubt it matters. I have tried many different lubes over the years but I have mostly used home brew since the late 1990's


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## SPlKE (Sep 10, 2007)

O noze!!!

Not another Home Brew Chain Lube Recipe thread!!

CX... isn't there a more appropriate subforum for chain lube recipe stuff?


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## Oxtox (Aug 16, 2006)

DaveG said:


> I don't have the kind of patience it takes to put individual drops on a chain


really...? 

120 links takes about 120 seconds.

granted, that's some serious time, but still...


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## old_fuji (Mar 16, 2009)

Oxtox said:


> really...?
> 
> 120 links takes about 120 seconds.
> 
> granted, that's some serious time, but still...


The argument is that 120 seconds (drop per drop) is a heckuva lot longer than backpedalling the chain a few times at what, 4-5 seconds per revolution, while being a little more aggressive with the speed by which oil is applied.


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## SPlKE (Sep 10, 2007)

Oxtox said:


> really...?
> 
> 120 links takes about 120 seconds.
> 
> granted, that's some serious time, but still...


... 120 seconds if you're slow. Winding my chain backward while holding a cloth underneath where I'm dropping a drop per roller... I can do 2 or 3 rollers per second.


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## DaveG (Feb 4, 2004)

Sorry Spike the launch sequence has already been initiated. Its inevitable


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## DaveG (Feb 4, 2004)

Why do people want to convert others to their chain lube regiment? Its like chain lube Jehovah Witnesses.


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## cxwrench (Nov 9, 2004)

DaveG said:


> I am cleaning and lubing at the same time. I use homebrew with mostly mineral spirits. Squirt it on, wipe down the chain. I'll repeat if there is still crud coming off on the wiping ray


What oil are you using? I think I'm gonna mix some up and give it a go.


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## frdfandc (Nov 27, 2007)

Kuma601 said:


> The crowd that applies the "more is better" thought to doing things. Has this been seen on any Campy Record or Dura Ace equipped bikes?


It applies to all levels. I've seen Sram Red coated like CX posted. Just a sloppy mess.


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## love4himies (Jun 12, 2012)

OldZaskar said:


> CX, hit us with the funny stuff too - you know, the ones the customers bring in and you have do your best to keep a poker face as you explain the errs of their ways.
> 
> Example: A friend brought a kid's bike to my house that was "... just unridable - the brakes, gears, nothing works right" I looked at the bike... rotated the handlebar 360 degrees and said "There ya go."
> 
> I can imagine you've seen some ridiculous stuff over the years


I think he should set up a video because I want to see his poker face, then he can tell us what was really going through his head, lol.


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## Lombard (May 8, 2014)

DaveG said:


> 4 parts odorless mineral spirits, 1 part motor oil. I have experimented with a higher percentage of oil but I think that just attracts more dirt without any noticeable benefit.


Hmmm. Maybe I'll try more mineral spirits in my homebrew and see if that works cleaner after the first ride. The first ride seems to slime up the chain something awful because of lube working its way out of the rollers. Though as I said, a WD-40 soaked rag after that followed by a dry wipe cleans it up real nice and I'm good until the next lube.




DaveG said:


> I have tried many different lubes over the years but I have mostly used home brew since the late 1990's


How many miles do you generally get out of your chains?


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## Lombard (May 8, 2014)

Waiting for CX's pics of the day with baited breath.


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## mfdemicco (Nov 8, 2002)

I use Lilly Lube, which is very thin, and apply it in a stream on the bottom run of the chain while turning the cranks, then spin the cranks and wipe the chain with a rag, like the directions say. One drop per link I don't think would work well with this thin lube, and I don't think the chain would stay any cleaner. There is a certain amount of flushing out the contaminants that's going on as well. 

Thick lubes, yeah, one drop per link. Thin lubes no.


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## SPlKE (Sep 10, 2007)

DaveG said:


> Why do people want to convert others to their chain lube regiment? Its like chain lube Jehovah Witnesses.


Exactly. That's why I keep telling people... forget the homebrew, forget all those fancy new chain lubes. Get ProLink, the one and only Best Chain Lube. ProLink... It's got what chains crave.


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## cxwrench (Nov 9, 2004)

DaveG said:


> Why do people want to convert others to their chain lube regiment? Its like chain lube Jehovah Witnesses.


It is kinda funny how serious people get. You can apply lube a lot of different ways, the more you put on the more important the 'wiping the excess off' becomes. You can use a LOT of different lubes, I'm definitely not very picky about that as long as it's not wax. All I want is something that will keep the chain quiet for a couple/few days and clean up easily. Lots and lost of lubes will do that.



SPlKE said:


> Exactly. That's why I keep telling people... forget the homebrew, forget all those fancy new chain lubes. Get ProLink, the one and only Best Chain Lube. ProLink... It's got what chains crave.


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## tfinator (Nov 4, 2009)

SPlKE said:


> ... 120 seconds if you're slow. Winding my chain backward while holding a cloth underneath where I'm dropping a drop per roller... I can do 2 or 3 rollers per second.


You're saying you get exactly one drop on exactly one roller every one third of a second for forty or so seconds?

I would love to see some high speed camera evidence of this.

If it's true... What's the point of having a rag underneath?

Sent from my Moto G (5) Plus using Tapatalk


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## SPlKE (Sep 10, 2007)

tfinator said:


> You're saying you get exactly one drop on exactly one roller every one third of a second for forty or so seconds?
> 
> I would love to see some high speed camera evidence of this.
> 
> If it's true... What's the point of having a rag underneath?


Hey, I'm not completely infallible.


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## cxwrench (Nov 9, 2004)

DaveG said:


> Why do people want to convert others to their chain lube regiment? Its like chain lube Jehovah Witnesses.





SPlKE said:


> Exactly. That's why I keep telling people... forget the homebrew, forget all those fancy new chain lubes. Get ProLink, the one and only Best Chain Lube. ProLink... It's got what chains crave.





Lombard said:


> Waiting for CX's pics of the day with baited breath.


I'm off today and tomorrow, I'll look for some old photos on my phone.


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## cxwrench (Nov 9, 2004)

Always check for lizards when replacing a punctured tube...


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## cxwrench (Nov 9, 2004)

Another good reason to wash your bike...it's easier to see where your frame is broken. Guy had no idea this had happened, he was just bringing it in for a tune up.


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## rideit (Feb 8, 2005)

cxwrench said:


> Another good reason to wash your bike...it's easier to see where your frame is broken. Guy had no idea this had happened, he was just bringing it in for a tune up.


We used to joke at my shop "Do you want the $50 detailing, the $75 detailing, or the $150 detailing? " (which correlated to how in depth the tune-ups were).
It's a joke, but really cleaning a bike thoroughly and completely often reveals many things that might be wrong.


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## Lombard (May 8, 2014)

cxwrench said:


> Another good reason to wash your bike...it's easier to see where your frame is broken. Guy had no idea this had happened, he was just bringing it in for a tune up.


I am assuming this was a mountain bike. How the heck was his shifting not effed up?


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## SPlKE (Sep 10, 2007)

Lombard said:


> I am assuming this was a mountain bike. How the heck was his shifting not effed up?


^^^
This... and more.


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## cxwrench (Nov 9, 2004)

DaveG said:


> Why do people want to convert others to their chain lube regiment? Its like chain lube Jehovah Witnesses.





SPlKE said:


> Exactly. That's why I keep telling people... forget the homebrew, forget all those fancy new chain lubes. Get ProLink, the one and only Best Chain Lube. ProLink... It's got what chains crave.





Lombard said:


> I am assuming this was a mountain bike. How the heck was his shifting not effed up?


Full length housing at the rear. Front shifting was messed up, that's why he wanted a tune up.


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## velodog (Sep 26, 2007)

cxwrench said:


> Another good reason to wash your bike...it's easier to see where your frame is broken. Guy had no idea this had happened, he was just bringing it in for a tune up.


This is barely recognizable as a bicycle.


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## cxwrench (Nov 9, 2004)

Holy crap...give me a weekend off and I completely forget about this. Let me see what I can come up with for today...

First...when you finish a big ride and lean your bike up against the passenger side of your car...then get in the driver's seat so you can make a quick phone call...don't forget your bike and pull away. You'll do something like this, luckily he didn't break the frame/fork/wheels/bars/shifters/saddle etc. 










Second...when you're paying me to build your dream Colnago w/ parts you sourced on the internet all by yourself don't be surprised when they don't fit. First time this guy had 2 normal Campy caliper brakes, obviously he needed an under-the-stays rear brake. Second time he brought in a Shimano brake, which hit the crank arm. Now I've got the right one ordered.


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## Lombard (May 8, 2014)

cxwrench said:


> Holy crap...give me a weekend off and I completely forget about this. Let me see what I can come up with for today...
> 
> First...when you finish a big ride and lean your bike up against the passenger side of your car...then get in the driver's seat so you can make a quick phone call...don't forget your bike and pull away. You'll do something like this, luckily he didn't break the frame/fork/wheels/bars/shifters/saddle etc.
> 
> ...


He is extremely lucky! I know someone who took the front wheel off his bike to put it in the back of his car, then got distracted and never put the front wheel in the car. I think you can guess what happened next!


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## cxwrench (Nov 9, 2004)

Lombard said:


> He is extremely lucky! I know someone who took the front wheel off his bike to put it in the back of his car, then got distracted and never put the front wheel in the car. I think you can guess what happened next!


The other mechanic on the first time I ever worked for ran over a week old Litespeed that a racer had stupidly put against the front bumper of the team van. It happens for sure.


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## Peter Lauridsen (Jun 22, 2013)

This is Great!!! More pictures of bike tools on a dirty bench, or, neatly put away.
I don't care.

No, its not some weird thing. I just LOVE bike benches and tool boxes.


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## cxwrench (Nov 9, 2004)

Like this:


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## rideit (Feb 8, 2005)

cxwrench said:


> The other mechanic on the first time I ever worked for ran over a week old Litespeed that a racer had stupidly put against the front bumper of the team van. It happens for sure.


I ran over my own Klein Adroit. 
I was still drunk from the night before.
Amazingly, I still rode that bike for two years...


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## jetdog9 (Jul 12, 2007)

Pretty much this thread rules but I am unable to rep.


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## goodboyr (Apr 19, 2006)

cxwrench said:


> Like this:


I spy with my little eye, an Abbey Tools HAG. My favourite tool!

Sent from my SM-G950W using Tapatalk


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## cxwrench (Nov 9, 2004)

goodboyr said:


> I spy with my little eye, an Abbey Tools HAG. My favourite tool!
> 
> Sent from my SM-G950W using Tapatalk


Me too! A couple years ago we were in Bend for Cascade and went by the shop a couple times to see Jason. I spent $$$, every penny worth it.


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## Fredrico (Jun 15, 2002)

cxwrench said:


> Me too! A couple years ago we were in Bend for Cascade and went by the shop a couple times to see Jason. I spent $$$, every penny worth it.


Awesome tool, very solid looking. Beats the old Park we abused at the shop, but its one tool I'd have to sponge off the LBS to use. Sooner or later, after a truing stand and centering gauge, this is an essential tool.


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## Peter Lauridsen (Jun 22, 2013)

Nice


cxwrench said:


> Like this:


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## Lombard (May 8, 2014)

cxwrench said:


> Like this:


How do you keep your work site this neat and still fix bikes?


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## SPlKE (Sep 10, 2007)

Lombard said:


> How do you keep your work site this neat and still fix bikes?


... and also find time to share your customer nightmares with RBRers, and also yell at RBR n00bs about putting things in the proper subforum?


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## old_fuji (Mar 16, 2009)

Lombard said:


> How do you keep your work site this neat and still fix bikes?


Keeping a workspace clean and neat means you can find stuff quicker, and get the job finished sooner...which results in more time to spend pwning n00bs on teh intarnetz! Everything about cxwrench's operation is designed to maximize internet time


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## tlg (May 11, 2011)

old_fuji said:


> Keeping a workspace clean and neat means you can find stuff quicker, and get the job finished sooner...which results in more time to spend pwning n00bs on teh intarnetz! Everything about cxwrench's operation is designed to maximize internet time


Including a PC right on his workbench!


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## kiwisimon (Oct 30, 2002)

cxwrench said:


> Like this:


okay now I get the anal retentive thread policing, nice shop.


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## SPlKE (Sep 10, 2007)

kiwisimon said:


> okay now I get the anal retentive thread policing, nice shop.


You must spread some Reputation around before giving it to kiwisimon again.


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## Lombard (May 8, 2014)

old_fuji said:


> Keeping a workspace clean and neat means you can find stuff quicker, and get the job finished sooner...which results in more time to spend pwning n00bs on teh intarnetz! Everything about cxwrench's operation is designed to maximize internet time


But haven't you heard the saying "A clean desk is the sign of a sick mind"?

Seruously, I'm just envious that I can't be this neat and organized.


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## cxwrench (Nov 9, 2004)

DaveG said:


> Why do people want to convert others to their chain lube regiment? Its like chain lube Jehovah Witnesses.





SPlKE said:


> Exactly. That's why I keep telling people... forget the homebrew, forget all those fancy new chain lubes. Get ProLink, the one and only Best Chain Lube. ProLink... It's got what chains crave.





Lombard said:


> But haven't you heard the saying "A clean desk is the sign of a sick mind"?
> 
> Seruously, I'm just envious that I can't be this neat and organized.


It's usually only that clean first thing in the morning and at the end of the day. I try to reorganize a little between jobs, it doesn't always happen.


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## Kuma601 (Jan 22, 2004)

Nice work area! I have trays that hold misc parts that are "still useful". The thought that at some point those parts can be used. That tray grows and is emptied into a jar, can, bucket... After 20+ years has grown substantially. The funny part is that memory knows it is there for an inventory call. Last week I didn't bother to look through it and put that bucket into the trash. It was relieving and now I'll start again.


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## cxwrench (Nov 9, 2004)

If you're a triathlete, or if you know any triathletes...please, tell them to pay more attention to their equipment. I work on dozens of bikes that belong to 'competitive' (not sure what that means to them) multi sport athletes and _only one of them gets proper care and maintenance_. 
Most of them seem to train indoors because we all know there aren't enough hours in the day to train for 3 sports outdoors, work, and have a life. This means they sweat on their bikes more than if they were outside. Most seem completely oblivious to the concept of 'corrosion', even after we've told them many times. The following photos were taken just a few months after the last service I did on this bike. The brake cables were so corroded the lever wouldn't return and I had to spray the rear wedge w/ PB Blaster more than once before putting it in the soft jaws to yank the cable out w/ pliers. The bars were wiped down w/ WD after the last cleaning, same corrosion is back.


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## masont (Feb 6, 2010)

cxwrench said:


> If you're a triathlete, or if you know any triathletes...please, tell them to pay more attention to their equipment. I work on dozens of bikes that belong to 'competitive' (not sure what that means to them) multi sport athletes and _only one of them gets proper care and maintenance_.
> Most of them seem to train indoors because we all know there aren't enough hours in the day to train for 3 sports outdoors, work, and have a life. This means they sweat on their bikes more than if they were outside. Most seem completely oblivious to the concept of 'corrosion', even after we've told them many times. The following photos were taken just a few months after the last service I did on this bike. The brake cables were so corroded the lever wouldn't return and I had to spray the rear wedge w/ PB Blaster more than once before putting it in the soft jaws to yank the cable out w/ pliers. The bars were wiped down w/ WD after the last cleaning, same corrosion is back.


We used to have a triathlete who came into the shop who didn't use chamois cream, he just used vaseline. He smeared it all over the bottom of his seat. Every so often you'd forget when he brought his bike in and stick your hand under there to pick the bike up, and immediately go wash your hands.


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## Lombard (May 8, 2014)

masont said:


> We used to have a triathlete who came into the shop who didn't use chamois cream, he just used vaseline. He smeared it all over the bottom of his seat. Every so often you'd forget when he brought his bike in and stick your hand under there to pick the bike up, and immediately go wash your hands.


WTF! How much freaken Vaseline did he use that it oozed through his shorts and under his seat? Just reminds me to examine carefully before I sit on anything.


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## Mike T. (Feb 3, 2004)

Here is a pin out of a chain on a bike I fixed. The chain was elongated a whopping 3/8" over 12" where 1/16" is usually the "replacement" limit. It was on a recreational rider's mountain bike. The chainring teeth were worn to nubs. He stood on the pedals to accelerate and the chain skipped a few chainring teeth. He went over the bars. I replaced everything - chain (duhh!), all 3 rings and cassette.


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## No Time Toulouse (Sep 7, 2016)

Mike T. said:


> ......
> Acchhhh the photo didn't upload. I'll try to fix it laterzz.


Downsize the photo. There is a limit on the # of pixels.


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## Mike T. (Feb 3, 2004)

No Time Toulouse said:


> Downsize the photo. There is a limit on the # of pixels.


In this case it was nothing to do with the pic size or # of pixels. The full size of that pic is a tiny 3KB. It's the RBR photo uploader that isn't working. I uploaded to Photobucket instead.


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## cxwrench (Nov 9, 2004)

This could end up being expen$ive...

It's very happy right where it is and I haven't started thinking about whether I want to go directly to the 'power tools' solution.


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## Wetworks (Aug 10, 2012)

cxwrench said:


> This could end up being expen$ive...
> 
> It's very happy right where it is and I haven't started thinking about whether I want to go directly to the 'power tools' solution.


And maybe replace it with a thru-axle that doesn't require a hex wrench. 

Jeez, that sucks, some nice DA rotors on there, too. What kind of bike?


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## kiwisimon (Oct 30, 2002)

would a JB Welded wrench work? TBH though it's shagged.


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## velodog (Sep 26, 2007)

Will an easy out, screw\bolt extractor, work?


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## cxwrench (Nov 9, 2004)

DaveG said:


> Why do people want to convert others to their chain lube regiment? Its like chain lube Jehovah Witnesses.





SPlKE said:


> Exactly. That's why I keep telling people... forget the homebrew, forget all those fancy new chain lubes. Get ProLink, the one and only Best Chain Lube. ProLink... It's got what chains crave.





velodog said:


> Will an easy out, screw\bolt extractor, work?


I'm really not sure what I'm going to try first. The right side is the threaded end and that's what is stuck. The left side is the tool end. I'd like to try from the stuck end if possible but not sure what to put in there that won't slip/spin.


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## velodog (Sep 26, 2007)

cxwrench said:


> I'm really not sure what I'm going to try first. The right side is the threaded end and that's what is stuck. The left side is the tool end. I'd like to try from the stuck end if possible but not sure what to put in there that won't slip/spin.


How about a self tapping screw\bolt that would bottom out and allow you to keep tightening, pushing \unthreading the axle?


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## velodog (Sep 26, 2007)

cxwrench said:


> I'm really not sure what I'm going to try first. The right side is the threaded end and that's what is stuck. The left side is the tool end. I'd like to try from the stuck end if possible but not sure what to put in there that won't slip/spin.


Sorry, hiccup caused a double post.


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## cxwrench (Nov 9, 2004)

velodog said:


> How about a self tapping screw\bolt that would bottom out and allow you to keep tightening, pushing \unthreading the axle?


Not a bad idea, I'll see what I can find!


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## old_fuji (Mar 16, 2009)

cxwrench said:


> Not a bad idea, I'll see what I can find!


We had this at work one time, and we wound up jamming a cheap flathead screwdriver into the widest part of the hex bolt to unscrew it. Yeah, we had to replace the screw in the end, but the screw is screwed anyway.


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## duriel (Oct 10, 2013)

velodog said:


> How about a self tapping screw\bolt that would bottom out and allow you to keep tightening, pushing \unthreading the axle?


THAT is NOT going to WORK!


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## QuiQuaeQuod (Jan 24, 2003)

old_fuji said:


> We had this at work one time, and we wound up jamming a cheap flathead screwdriver into the widest part of the hex bolt to unscrew it. Yeah, we had to replace the screw in the end, but the screw is screwed anyway.


That. Or you can dremel a slot. Sometimes you can use an SAE/metric in a rounded out metric/SAE and get a tight enough fit to get it going.

Making a slot then using an impact driver (if needed) is pretty much the way I end up dealing with most stripped fasteners. After trying other things first, which sometimes work. But they never work when I am under time constraints for some reason.

BTW, looks like someone has NO IDEA what 10 Nm feels like.


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## cxwrench (Nov 9, 2004)

DaveG said:


> Why do people want to convert others to their chain lube regiment? Its like chain lube Jehovah Witnesses.





SPlKE said:


> Exactly. That's why I keep telling people... forget the homebrew, forget all those fancy new chain lubes. Get ProLink, the one and only Best Chain Lube. ProLink... It's got what chains crave.


Today's nastiness:










Obviously this could be a lot worse but this was off to a bad start. If you train indoors, or sweat a lot, or both...wash your bike regularly and change your damn bar tape more often than once every 3 years. It's not safe as corrosion can go unchecked for months if not years, and it smells like ass.


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## Lombard (May 8, 2014)

cxwrench said:


> Today's nastiness:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I don't think I've ever had bar tape last 3 years. It usually deteriorates well before that.


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## cxwrench (Nov 9, 2004)

DaveG said:


> Why do people want to convert others to their chain lube regiment? Its like chain lube Jehovah Witnesses.





SPlKE said:


> Exactly. That's why I keep telling people... forget the homebrew, forget all those fancy new chain lubes. Get ProLink, the one and only Best Chain Lube. ProLink... It's got what chains crave.





Lombard said:


> I don't think I've ever had bar tape last 3 years. It usually deteriorates well before that.


In all honesty it should be changed every 3-4 months.


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## Marc (Jan 23, 2005)

Lombard said:


> I don't think I've ever had bar tape last 3 years. It usually deteriorates well before that.


Depends on how little you ride. My first real roadbike, I passed on to family. It probably has only seen 20 miles of riding in the many years since, and done little more than sit on a garage floor ever since. Of course...the upside to black bar tape is it hides wear/staining....the downside is that you quit noticing how socked with sweat/salt the tape gets until you try to remove it.


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## SPlKE (Sep 10, 2007)

Marc said:


> Depends on how little you ride. My first real roadbike, I passed on to family. It probably has only seen 20 miles of riding in the many years since, and done little more than sit on a garage floor ever since. Of course...the upside to black bar tape is it hides wear/staining....the downside is that you quit noticing how socked with sweat/salt the tape gets until you try to remove it.


Wise words. I usually notice how ridiculously overdue for a tape replacement I am when I'm about 5 miles into my ride. 

Then I forget. 

I have a box of fizik microtex (my long time favorite) tape waiting in my bike parts bin. It's been so long... it might have gotten permanent creases in it inside the box.


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## Lombard (May 8, 2014)

cxwrench said:


> In all honesty it should be changed every 3-4 months.


Should months or miles be the factor? I have to admit I probably change mine about every 2 years. Never had a problem. I guess I'm not much of a hand sweater. My head certainly sweats as my skull cap and helmet are evidence of.


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## tlg (May 11, 2011)

Lombard said:


> Should months or miles be the factor? I have to admit I probably change mine about every 2 years. Never had a problem. I guess I'm not much of a hand sweater. My head certainly sweats as my skull cap and helmet are evidence of.


Same here. In the hot humid summers though my gloves will be saturated in sweat where I can wring them out. 
I can easily get 2 years (10k mi) from bar tape.


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## Lombard (May 8, 2014)

tlg said:


> Same here. In the hot humid summers though my gloves will be saturated in sweat where I can wring them out.
> I can easily get 2 years (10k mi) from bar tape.


I ride about 3K miles per year and it is spread out on different bikes. The bike I ride the most gets about 2K miles per year.


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## goodboyr (Apr 19, 2006)

The worst part of the job is dealing with foul, old, putrid tape. And good old specialized clear gel pads underneath the tape, make me want to wear a Hazmat suit. Ugh!!!!!

Sent from my SM-G950W using Tapatalk


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## cxwrench (Nov 9, 2004)

goodboyr said:


> The worst part of the job is dealing with foul, old, putrid tape. And good old *specialized clear gel pads underneath the tape*, make me want to wear a Hazmat suit. Ugh!!!!!
> 
> Sent from my SM-G950W using Tapatalk


Those things are NASTY! It's like gel-fat.


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## t4ngent (Oct 18, 2018)

Here's a nice one for you. A buddy of mine was changing his tape recently and found the bars were so corroded a hex key easily poked straight through. 

View attachment 324050


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## cxwrench (Nov 9, 2004)

t4ngent said:


> Here's a nice one for you. A buddy of mine was changing his tape recently and found the bars were so corroded a hex key easily poked straight through.
> 
> View attachment 324050


Uhhhmmm...you can't link attachments from your computer, they have to be hosted somewhere online for that to work.


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## frdfandc (Nov 27, 2007)

I am at 3 years on bar tape. But mostly because I have not put that many miles on the road bike. Most of my miles are mountain biking. This year is opposite though. So new tape will go on this winter.

Sent from my SM-G930V using Tapatalk


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## t4ngent (Oct 18, 2018)

cxwrench said:


> Uhhhmmm...you can't link attachments from your computer, they have to be hosted somewhere online for that to work.


You can't see the image? It was showing up on my end but I edited the post and reattached it, maybe it will show up for you now?


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## cxwrench (Nov 9, 2004)

DaveG said:


> Why do people want to convert others to their chain lube regiment? Its like chain lube Jehovah Witnesses.





SPlKE said:


> Exactly. That's why I keep telling people... forget the homebrew, forget all those fancy new chain lubes. Get ProLink, the one and only Best Chain Lube. ProLink... It's got what chains crave.





t4ngent said:


> You can't see the image? It was showing up on my end but I edited the post and reattached it, maybe it will show up for you now?


Now THAT is some corrosion!


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## frdfandc (Nov 27, 2007)

t4ngent said:


> Here's a nice one for you. A buddy of mine was changing his tape recently and found the bars were so corroded a hex key easily poked straight through.
> 
> View attachment 324050



I've seen corrosion like that before. It's nasty and smells horrible.


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## OldZaskar (Jul 1, 2009)

Regarding that corrosion... How real is the "danger" of not unwrapping/inspecting an aluminum bar after a couple years (in the south!) of riding? Is that example t4ngent posted the anomaly? Or, do you see bars like that on a regular basis?

I'm thinking of lots of guys in my club - you know those guys... the "if it aint broke, don't fix it" guys. I'm sure several of them haven't rewrapped their bar in a couple (several?) years.


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## t4ngent (Oct 18, 2018)

OldZaskar said:


> Regarding that corrosion... How real is the "danger" of not unwrapping/inspecting an aluminum bar after a couple years (in the south!) of riding? Is that example t4ngent posted the anomaly? Or, do you see bars like that on a regular basis?
> 
> I'm thinking of lots of guys in my club - you know those guys... the "if it aint broke, don't fix it" guys. I'm sure several of them haven't rewrapped their bar in a couple (several?) years.


I'm in the most humid region of the south (Houston) and know other people who have broken aluminum bars due to corrosion, so yeah it is a danger.

Most of the guys I ride with are primarily into MTB/CX and tend to have a road bike that gets ridden quite a bit but neglected in terms of maintenance (myself included, its been 2 years since I changed my tape but fortunately I have carbon bars so not worried about corrosion at least lol)


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## cxwrench (Nov 9, 2004)

DaveG said:


> Why do people want to convert others to their chain lube regiment? Its like chain lube Jehovah Witnesses.





SPlKE said:


> Exactly. That's why I keep telling people... forget the homebrew, forget all those fancy new chain lubes. Get ProLink, the one and only Best Chain Lube. ProLink... It's got what chains crave.





OldZaskar said:


> Regarding that corrosion... How real is the "danger" of not unwrapping/inspecting an aluminum bar after a couple years (in the south!) of riding? Is that example t4ngent posted the anomaly? Or, do you see bars like that on a regular basis?
> 
> I'm thinking of lots of guys in my club - you know those guys... the "if it aint broke, don't fix it" guys. I'm sure several of them haven't rewrapped their bar in a couple (several?) years.


If you live in a hot/humid area, it's a problem. If you sweat a lot and have noticed your stem bolts getting rusty (hint hint), it's a problem. If you ride indoors on a trainer, it's a problem. 
We had a customer at a shop I worked at 15 years ago that had 2 bikes. The fancy bike for the weekend rides and his commuter that he rode M-F, week in, week out. He hadn't change his bars in probably 6-8 years, tape was probably half that old. He crashed on the descent into Sausalito coming home from SF. Bad crash in a medium speed corner, cut himself up pretty badly on the armco barrier as well as getting some bad road rash. Spent a few days in the hospital. That's bad enough but a short time later he got an infection from one of the cuts. It went septic. He died. Sad to think it most like would not have happened if he'd changed his bar tape every now and then and we'd spotted the corrosion on the bar.


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## OldZaskar (Jul 1, 2009)

So play that out - we unwrap the bar, see the beginning of the corrosion... then what? Cleaning it and rewrapping really isn't stopping the corrosion. The new tape is no better at preventing the corrosion than the old. If it was a steel bar, we'd start thinking of rust inhibiting coatings, paints, etc. But what, if anything, can be done for aluminum - under the tape - and not create other problems?


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## cxwrench (Nov 9, 2004)

DaveG said:


> Why do people want to convert others to their chain lube regiment? Its like chain lube Jehovah Witnesses.





SPlKE said:


> Exactly. That's why I keep telling people... forget the homebrew, forget all those fancy new chain lubes. Get ProLink, the one and only Best Chain Lube. ProLink... It's got what chains crave.





OldZaskar said:


> So play that out - we unwrap the bar, see the beginning of the corrosion... then what? Cleaning it and rewrapping really isn't stopping the corrosion. The new tape is no better at preventing the corrosion than the old. If it was a steel bar, we'd start thinking of rust inhibiting coatings, paints, etc. But what, if anything, can be done for aluminum - under the tape - and not create other problems?


Unwrap. Remove levers. Clean. Rewrap. > 3-4 months. Repeat. If corrosion starts to get past the surface replace bar.


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## tlg (May 11, 2011)

OldZaskar said:


> So play that out - we unwrap the bar, see the beginning of the corrosion... then what? Cleaning it and rewrapping really isn't stopping the corrosion. The new tape is no better at preventing the corrosion than the old. If it was a steel bar, we'd start thinking of rust inhibiting coatings, paints, etc. But what, if anything, can be done for aluminum - under the tape - and not create other problems?


Same as steel. You can paint aluminum.


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## Touch0Gray (May 29, 2003)

I do not understand, a good case of ocd keeps all my bikes both spotless and corrosion free... As for lubing a chain i never do it on the bike, since I alternate chains on a cassette, I hang the chain on the vise handle and lube from the top and let it drip off the ends (after a very thorough cleaning in an ultrasonic for a 1/2 hour in mineral spirits) then I wipe it down every day for a few days, then wrap it up with newspaper until the next chain swap. I have actually never experienced any substantial chain elongation, (I use a digital caliper to measure) lateral play is my problem, however, i generally get 10k from a pair of chains and a cassette.

When you see a disgusting, filthy bike, you ever wonder what their house looks like?


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## cxwrench (Nov 9, 2004)

Touch0Gray said:


> When you see a disgusting, filthy bike, you ever wonder what their house looks like?


Not sure if it transfers to the house, but definitely the car.


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## Touch0Gray (May 29, 2003)

cxwrench said:


> Not sure if it transfers to the house, but definitely the car.


Ya mean the one with the back seat full of fast food wrappers?


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## cxwrench (Nov 9, 2004)

Don't let your drivetrain get worn to this point. Chances are good you'll stand up on a climb, the chain will skip, you'll end up laying on the side of the road after going over the bars or you'll bust your nuts. Chain was a little past .1 on a Rohloff checker.


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## cxwrench (Nov 9, 2004)

QuiQuaeQuod said:


> BTW, looks like someone has NO IDEA what 10 Nm feels like.


Turns out the guy had his 5mm bit on a regular drive NOT his torque wrench. D'ooohhhhhh. I never did get it undone, the customer came and picked it up. He didn't want me to ruin his $1200.00 fork. Pretty sure this is going to be a very expensive mistake for him.


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## duriel (Oct 10, 2013)

If he takes it to a machine shop, they can drill the bolt out pretty easy. But you have to find one that will do it and it's kinda spendy, unless they are friendly.


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## cxwrench (Nov 9, 2004)

duriel said:


> If he takes it to a machine shop, they can drill the bolt out pretty easy. But you have to find one that will do it and it's kinda spendy, unless they are friendly.


You talking about drilling the head off?


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## Lelandjt (Sep 11, 2008)

I'm late to the party so these may have been mentioned but the three things I see a lot on road bikes are:
-Over lubed chains using some oil based lube that results in a black, gunky, greasy, gritty mess. (never lubing would result in less drag and wear but a lightly applied wax lube would be best)
-Bikes that look like they've never had a bath involving soap. Crusted on dust in every nook and a baked on coating of brake dust on rims and pads. When asked how long it's been since they washed their bike they say, "Never because it's not ridden on dirt or in the rain."
-This one goes for MTBers as well: Watching someone wash a bike with a high pressure jet of water that is penetrating every seal as they indiscriminately aim around the bike. These same people often put plenty of attention into getting frame tubes clean while barely getting the chain, brake pivots, derailleur pivots, cable guide under the BB. You know, places where dirt hinders moving parts. (a cone of water that's just enough pressure to knock the dust off, then dish soap suds, then a low pressure cone to get the soap off is how it's done)


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## duriel (Oct 10, 2013)

cxwrench said:


> You talking about drilling the head off?


I'm not a machinist, so I'm not saying what he would do specifically. But he would get it out of there. 

Drilled a bolt (could be the axle) shaft through the outside threads (could be in the fork) is what they have done for me. It was a bolt twisted off in a engine block, but very similar problem. He did not damage the threads in the block.


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## cxwrench (Nov 9, 2004)

duriel said:


> I'm not a machinist, so I'm not saying what he would do specifically. But he would get it out of there.
> 
> Drilled a bolt (could be the axle) shaft through the outside threads (could be in the fork) is what they have done for me. It was a bolt twisted off in a engine block, but very similar problem. He did not damage the threads in the block.


Yeah, if you had a fixture to hold the fork you could use a mill or drill press to get rid of most of the axle and then run a thread cutter through the remaining bit. I just don't have any way to hold it, and no drill press/mill.


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## tlg (May 11, 2011)

cxwrench said:


> Yeah, if you had a fixture to hold the fork you could use a mill or drill press to get rid of most of the axle


Yup. You'd need quite a fixture to hold the fork (and wheel) secure and perpendicular to your table.

Dremeling a slot is still by far the easiest option.


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## Touch0Gray (May 29, 2003)

cxwrench said:


> Yeah, if you had a fixture to hold the fork you could use a mill or drill press to get rid of most of the axle and then run a thread cutter through the remaining bit. I just don't have any way to hold it, and no drill press/mill.


When I was restoring my Waterford, the little screw that adjusts the rear axle in the rear dropout on the drive side was "rust-welded" into the dropout. I had to drill through the center of a 3 mm screw, with a tiny little drill bit (1 mm) then ream it out until I could get a tap in to clean out the rest of the hole. Then I replaced them with stainless steel screws. I used a foredom flex shaft to drill after carefully marking the center of the screw with a high speed, carbide (1.5 mm}) bur in a 30,000 rpm pneumatic hand piece. (all speed, no torque)

So it can be done


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## QuiQuaeQuod (Jan 24, 2003)

cxwrench said:


> Turns out the guy had his 5mm bit on a regular drive NOT his torque wrench. D'ooohhhhhh.


It is possible to get close if you calibrate your "feel" before torquing the fastener. A 7lb weight on a foot long lever will do it pretty close for 10nm.

Actually, you can hang a weight off the wrench if you want, if you are careful with the math and make sure the lever arm is parallel to the floor when it STOPS moving.

Anyone that careful will use a torque wrench in all but the most emergency situations, of course.


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## cxwrench (Nov 9, 2004)

Nah...just replace the broken spoke.


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## reptilezs (Aug 21, 2007)

cxwrench said:


> This could end up being expen$ive...
> 
> It's very happy right where it is and I haven't started thinking about whether I want to go directly to the 'power tools' solution.


made a lot of money with these quickly. Products | Sock It Out


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## cxwrench (Nov 9, 2004)

DaveG said:


> Why do people want to convert others to their chain lube regiment? Its like chain lube Jehovah Witnesses.





SPlKE said:


> Exactly. That's why I keep telling people... forget the homebrew, forget all those fancy new chain lubes. Get ProLink, the one and only Best Chain Lube. ProLink... It's got what chains crave.





reptilezs said:


> made a lot of money with these quickly. Products | Sock It Out


Don't think they would work, it's the threaded end that's stuck and the tool end of the axle is super soft and already ruined. The guy put well over 10nm on it...aluminum to aluminum w/ no grease.


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## TJay74 (Sep 9, 2012)

CX those are the people who brag about just riding and dont care about the conditions. They brag that they dont ever was, clean or maintenance their bikes and that they work just fine.

Until they break, and then those owners are pissed when you tell them they are past a "simple" repair and the bike needs tons of work.

I work on some friends bike on the side as a shade tree mechanic and my OCD goes crazy every time I deal with their bikes. Doesnt matter how many times I try to drill things into their heads the bike always returns with the same bad habits in place.


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## cxwrench (Nov 9, 2004)

TJay74 said:


> CX those are the people who brag about just riding and dont care about the conditions. They brag that they dont ever was, clean or maintenance their bikes and that they work just fine.
> 
> Until they break, and then those owners are pissed when you tell them they are past a "simple" repair and the bike needs tons of work.
> 
> I work on some friends bike on the side as a shade tree mechanic and my OCD goes crazy every time I deal with their bikes. Doesnt matter how many times I try to drill things into their heads the bike always returns with the same bad habits in place.


Nailed it. :thumbsup:


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## reptilezs (Aug 21, 2007)

cxwrench said:


> Don't think they would work, it's the threaded end that's stuck and the tool end of the axle is super soft and already ruined. The guy put well over 10nm on it...aluminum to aluminum w/ no grease.


i hear you and you don't have the bike anymore. just passing some info along. i have had very good success with them. they are not designed to save the fastener, just to get it out and put a new one in. completely rounded is fine, hammer it in and turn. i still charge accordingly, due to the cost of the tools.


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## velodog (Sep 26, 2007)

Hey CX could you uncheck those two chain lube multi posts so they quit showing up in all your responses? They just add confusion.


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## cxwrench (Nov 9, 2004)

velodog said:


> Hey CX could you uncheck those two chain lube multi posts so they quit showing up in all your responses? They just add confusion.


I keep forgetting to do that, this is the only forum I'm on where that happens.


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## cxwrench (Nov 9, 2004)

Sometimes it really doesn't matter how they treat their bikes...


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## Lombard (May 8, 2014)

cxwrench said:


> Unwrap. Remove levers. Clean. Rewrap. > 3-4 months. Repeat. If corrosion starts to get past the surface* replace bar*.


I would replace bars that show ANY corrosion. Aluminum bars are cheap (certainly cheaper than a trip to the ER) and why bother playing with this 3-4 months later?




tlg said:


> Same as steel. You can paint aluminum.


Paint doesn't necessarily check corrosion.


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## Opus51569 (Jul 21, 2009)

cxwrench said:


> Sometimes it really doesn't matter how they treat their bikes...


Plus, think of the job security. If everyone meticulously maintained their rides, imagine how business would suffer. It's like planned obsolescence... but with morons.


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## QuiQuaeQuod (Jan 24, 2003)

cxwrench said:


> Sometimes it really doesn't matter how they treat their bikes...


I don't know all of them, but it looks like a quality selection. Heitz Napa is about $50 retail now, and when I last had some (cough cough years ago) it was a nice match to a steak dinner.


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## cxwrench (Nov 9, 2004)

DaveG said:


> Why do people want to convert others to their chain lube regiment? Its like chain lube Jehovah Witnesses.





SPlKE said:


> Exactly. That's why I keep telling people... forget the homebrew, forget all those fancy new chain lubes. Get ProLink, the one and only Best Chain Lube. ProLink... It's got what chains crave.





QuiQuaeQuod said:


> I don't know all of them, but it looks like a quality selection. Heitz Napa is about $50 retail now, and when I last had some (cough cough years ago) it was a nice match to a steak dinner.


I took the bottle of Heitz '08 Cab and the Farmstead '16 Cab. I'll probably have the Heitz when I make burgers with some ground elk meat I have in the freezer from a friends recent hunt.


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## QuiQuaeQuod (Jan 24, 2003)

cxwrench said:


> I took the bottle of Heitz '08 Cab and the Farmstead '16 Cab. I'll probably have the Heitz when I make burgers with some ground elk meat I have in the freezer from a friends recent hunt.


08? Good year for Napa, tannic, so likely structured to age well if it was stored correctly. Make some good sides to go with the burger, or some nice cheeses for nibbling after with the wine. Drink it over a couple of hours, with that much age it should develop and change over time a bit.

Sometimes I do miss living in CA, and knowing people with the bank to have cellars to age things in.


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## cxwrench (Nov 9, 2004)

DaveG said:


> Why do people want to convert others to their chain lube regiment? Its like chain lube Jehovah Witnesses.





SPlKE said:


> Exactly. That's why I keep telling people... forget the homebrew, forget all those fancy new chain lubes. Get ProLink, the one and only Best Chain Lube. ProLink... It's got what chains crave.





QuiQuaeQuod said:


> 08? Good year for Napa, tannic, so likely structured to age well if it was stored correctly. Make some good sides to go with the burger, or some nice cheeses for nibbling after with the wine. Drink it over a couple of hours, with that much age it should develop and change over time a bit.
> 
> Sometimes I do miss living in CA, and knowing people with the bank to have cellars to age things in.


I'll make sure to follow your advice! Thanks:thumbsup:


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## No Time Toulouse (Sep 7, 2016)

QuiQuaeQuod said:


> ...
> Sometimes I do miss living in CA, and knowing people with the bank to have cellars to age things in.


Doesn't require anything more than a closet in the basement, really. I'm finally getting down to my last bottles of a half-case of 2000 vintage 'right-bank' red Bordeaux. Only had 1 that was corked......


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## QuiQuaeQuod (Jan 24, 2003)

No Time Toulouse said:


> Doesn't require anything more than a closet in the basement, really. I'm finally getting down to my last bottles of a half-case of 2000 vintage 'right-bank' red Bordeaux. Only had 1 that was corked......


I keep mine in the basement, in an old canning closet set into a bump out on the foundation. But my basement does vary in temp over time. Too warm for a few weeks in summer, and too cool for a month in winter. This can result, if the temps change relatively quickly, with corks moving and possibly leaking over time. You can see how some of the capsules in that pic look like the cork is down a bit (dimpled capsule top). That's a sign of temperature fluctuation. Hotter, cork rises, cooler, cork retreats. This is why I have my basement heat vents pointed AWAY from that closet during the winter. I don't want that hot air blowing near the door of that closet.

Most people's basements will work fine for a relatively short age, say 10 years or so. But if you want to go longer, temp/humidity control is the way to go. 

IIRC, 2016 was a very good year for bord, so get ready to stock up. On daily drinkers and nicer wines both.


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## cxwrench (Nov 9, 2004)

If you don't know how hydraulic brakes work for god's sake don't start loosening random **** on your bike. No fluid in the system, pads ruined, rotor coated in mineral oil. The guy is lucky he didn't try to ride down any of fun hills around here.


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## Marc (Jan 23, 2005)

cxwrench said:


> If you don't know how hydraulic brakes work for god's sake don't start loosening random **** on your bike. No fluid in the system, pads ruined, rotor coated in mineral oil. The guy is lucky he didn't try to ride down any of fun hills around here.



Good god.

He's lucky it is only going to cost..well... 2x $50/each (online retail) for rotors (minimum)...2x$20ish/each (online retail) for pads...as well as a fill/bleed job plus the manpower....so add in tax--probably what $250USD? Did the calipers hold pressure/fluid once topped off--or did he cook the gaskets not being able to stop?...cheap compared to a broken face or arm or hip...but geezus.


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## cxwrench (Nov 9, 2004)

Marc said:


> Good god.
> 
> He's lucky it is only going to cost..well... 2x $50/each (online retail) for rotors (minimum)...2x$20ish/each (online retail) for pads...as well as a fill/bleed job plus the manpower....so add in tax--probably what $250USD? Did the calipers hold pressure/fluid once topped off--or did he cook the gaskets not being able to stop?...cheap compared to a broken face or arm or hip...but geezus.


It was just the front. I cleaned the crap outta everything and replaced the pads. Had to bleed it, but it feels fine and stop well. It took 3-4 tries to get the rotor clean, the fluid had gotten in all the little holes. It's gonna run the guy about $100.00 for everything.


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## frdfandc (Nov 27, 2007)

I can't say how much I hate it when someone who doesn't know what they are doing tries to make a repair. It ends up costing them more to fix their screwup than it would be if they didn't mess with it the the first place.

The owner is lucky it only cost him a $100.

Sent from my SM-G930V using Tapatalk


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## cxwrench (Nov 9, 2004)

frdfandc said:


> I can't say how much I hate it when someone who doesn't know what they are doing tries to make a repair. It ends up costing them more to fix their screwup than it would be if they didn't mess with it the the first place.
> 
> The owner is lucky it only cost him a $100.
> 
> Sent from my SM-G930V using Tapatalk


We used to have that sign at another shop I worked at:

Labor $75.00/hr
If you want to watch: $100.00/hr
If you want to help: $125.00/hr
If I have to fix your screw up: $150.00/hr


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## frdfandc (Nov 27, 2007)

cxwrench said:


> We used to have that sign at another shop I worked at:
> 
> Labor $75.00/hr
> If you want to watch: $100.00/hr
> ...


I've seen that before and it should be put into practice IMHO

Sent from my SM-G930V using Tapatalk


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## OldZaskar (Jul 1, 2009)

cxwrench said:


> It took 3-4 tries to get the rotor clean, the fluid had gotten in all the little holes. It's gonna run the guy about $100.00 for everything.


CX... have you ever used fire (no, seriously) to burn the oil off a rotor? A friend, who's been wrenching a lot longer than me, said he does that if they're contaminated with fluid. My only concern would be going too long - too much heat - and warping the rotor.


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## kiwisimon (Oct 30, 2002)

TJay74 said:


> I work on some friends bikes. Doesnt matter how many times I try ...............................the bike always returns with the same bad habits in place.


start charging real rates not mates rates, and charge them for cleaning time. That might get them the message.


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## Lombard (May 8, 2014)

TJay74 said:


> I work on some friends bike on the side as a shade tree mechanic and my OCD goes crazy every time I deal with their bikes. Doesnt matter how many times I try to drill things into their heads the bike always returns with the same bad habits in place.


I think I would get "really busy" very quickly.


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## Lombard (May 8, 2014)

Wow CX, it's been over a month since you posted an example here. I guess the rainy season is there in NoCal now and people aren't bringing bikes in much?


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## jetdog9 (Jul 12, 2007)

Or, after being stuck not riding because of the forest fire smoke, as soon as the air was clear but it started pouring everybody rode in the rain and he's been stuck cleaning and fixing CX and gravel bikes for the last month...


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## cxwrench (Nov 9, 2004)

Lombard said:


> Wow CX, it's been over a month since you posted an example here. I guess the rainy season is there in NoCal now and people aren't bringing bikes in much?


A variety of things, but now that it's slowing down a bit, here's something. Don't drag your brakes down big hills w/ carbon clinchers. Still a thing I guess. 



















This is the normal width of the rear rim in the middle of the brake track...










And this is how far it blew out...










Don't drag your brakes folks. Especially the rear, it doesn't really slow you down at all and just wrecks ****.


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## duriel (Oct 10, 2013)

My last MonsterCross ride I stopped 1/2 the way through to tighten my front disks up (mech), and the pads were GONE! That DA mechanic! ....me!


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## Lombard (May 8, 2014)

1) I don't drag my brakes.

2) I don't use carbon rims.

Win-win!


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## Fredrico (Jun 15, 2002)

Lombard said:


> 1) I don't drag my brakes.
> 
> 2) I don't use carbon rims.
> 
> Win-win!


Race tires, carbon rims! Disc brakes! Stop that bike on a dime! Whoops!


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## QuiQuaeQuod (Jan 24, 2003)

cxwrench said:


> Don't drag your brakes folks.


Since I don't have a tandem with a drag brake, I don't. 

Some people consider what controls do (shift and brake), some consider HOW they do them (friction, forcing a chain into metal from the side). I'm guessing your customer will move from the first group to the second, at least for brakes.


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## cxwrench (Nov 9, 2004)

DaveG said:


> Why do people want to convert others to their chain lube regiment? Its like chain lube Jehovah Witnesses.





SPlKE said:


> Exactly. That's why I keep telling people... forget the homebrew, forget all those fancy new chain lubes. Get ProLink, the one and only Best Chain Lube. ProLink... It's got what chains crave.





QuiQuaeQuod said:


> Since I don't have a tandem with a drag brake, I don't.
> 
> *Some people consider what controls do (shift and brake), some consider HOW they do them* (friction, forcing a chain into metal from the side). I'm guessing your customer will move from the first group to the second, at least for brakes.


Exactly!


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## cxwrench (Nov 9, 2004)

Here's one for you mountain bike guys w/ old Reverbs. Don't strap your saddle bag to the upper part of the post then wonder why it won't work anymore.


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## Lombard (May 8, 2014)

I didn't get this one at first. Then I realized it's a dropper seatpost.


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## cxwrench (Nov 9, 2004)

If you have $pendy carbon parts I implore you to get and use a torque wrench. Pretty much always gonna be less expensive than ruining a $600.00 carbon bar/stem.


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## frdfandc (Nov 27, 2007)

That would have been a bad crash had that bar failed.


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## duriel (Oct 10, 2013)

Man'splain to me how a torque wrench would not cause a failure in that handbar bend?


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## cxwrench (Nov 9, 2004)

[


duriel said:


> Man'splain to me how a torque wrench would not cause a failure in that handbar bend?


This was on a brand new bike out of the box. Trek's new boxes nearly eliminate shipping damage of the normal type. Obviously if you run over the box w/ a forklift the bike is toast, but normal dropping/banging around won't do much to a bike if it's in one of these, and there was no damage to the outside of the box. That leaves over-tightening the clamp. In this case the levers were low on the drops but over-tightened is over-tightened.


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## Lombard (May 8, 2014)

cxwrench said:


> If you have $pendy carbon parts I implore you to get and use a torque wrench. Pretty much always gonna be less expensive than ruining a $600.00 carbon bar/stem.


Maybe he was watching one of those You Tube videos where some hamfisted mechanic was leaning on bolts so hard, the bike stand would almost fall.


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## cxwrench (Nov 9, 2004)

It's no secret that I'm a SRAM guy. Since the very beginning of their road line I've worked on it and used it personally. But...for the last couple years their crank bolts have a nasty habit of galling in the aluminum 29 and 30mm axles making it super hard to remove them. Just had one in a new Trek Top Fuel 9.9 w/ XX1 Dub cranks so stuck out of the box that this happened...


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## duriel (Oct 10, 2013)

Yea, and were u using your torque wrench? hu uh?
Put some anti oxidation compound on those bolts when you put them back on.


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## cxwrench (Nov 9, 2004)

duriel said:


> Yea, and were u using your torque wrench? hu uh?
> Put some anti oxidation compound on those bolts when you put them back on.


That was tring to get the crank OFF, and I didn't install it. Prep: Use caution tape when performing dangerous jobs. 










Always use new, sharp tools.










Progress...










And done.


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## Marc (Jan 23, 2005)

Jeebus. You had to destroy a crank...right out of the box?? WTF? This is your second Trek boxing flaw in what--a month?


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## cxwrench (Nov 9, 2004)

Marc said:


> Jeebus. You had to destroy a crank...right out of the box?? WTF? This is your second Trek boxing flaw in what--a month?


Yeah, but this is more SRAM's problem than Trek's. I spoke to one of their CS reps earlier and they know about the problem. They've come up w/ a new bolt or maybe they're just putting anti-seize on them instead of thread locker. I'm fairly sure that Trek's builders are using torque wrenches, I've seen them build bikes. I've had many problems in the past w/ the alloy bolts galling in alloy axles so it's nothing new. SRAM will replace the crank so it's not a big deal. I'll buy a stronger 8mm bit.


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## Lombard (May 8, 2014)

cxwrench said:


> Yeah, but this is more SRAM's problem than Trek's. I spoke to one of their CS reps earlier and they know about the problem. They've come up w/ a new bolt or maybe they're just putting anti-seize on them instead of thread locker. I'm fairly sure that Trek's builders are using torque wrenches, I've seen them build bikes. I've had many problems in the past w/ the alloy bolts galling in alloy axles so it's nothing new. SRAM will replace the crank so it's not a big deal. I'll buy a stronger 8mm bit.


I'm a bit confused, but why would using anti-seize be a problem?


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## velodog (Sep 26, 2007)

Lombard said:


> I'm a bit confused, but why would using anti-seize be a problem?


I think that he's saying that they may be using anti-seize *instead* of thread locker now.


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## cxwrench (Nov 9, 2004)

DaveG said:


> Why do people want to convert others to their chain lube regiment? Its like chain lube Jehovah Witnesses.





SPlKE said:


> Exactly. That's why I keep telling people... forget the homebrew, forget all those fancy new chain lubes. Get ProLink, the one and only Best Chain Lube. ProLink... It's got what chains crave.





velodog said:


> I think that he's saying that they may be using anti-seize *instead* of thread locker now.


^This^ They have been using thread locker and have switched to some typed of anti-seize coating. We'll see how it works.


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## frdfandc (Nov 27, 2007)

Thread locker isn't really needed if the component is torque to the proper spec. But I've seen too much product installed without being torqued properly, probably why manufacturers use thread locker.


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## Fredrico (Jun 15, 2002)

frdfandc said:


> Thread locker isn't really needed if the component is torque to the proper spec. But I've seen too much product installed without being torqued properly, probably why manufacturers use thread locker.


Aluminum bolts suck. I change over to nickel plated steel wherever possible. Grease the threads and it'll come off 4 years later, no problem. So easy to break aluminum bolts or strip out the threads. Never had any steel bolts come loose, get stuck, strip out, or break. Friends can't say that about their aluminum or carbon builds. 

With grease, I can torque it down just right by hand with the trusty L shaped allen wrench. The grease tells me when its tight very accurately on hard steel. There's an easily discernible point where the bolt snugs down, that's it. The only bolt I have to torque down to around 10 ft.# is the big seat clamp bolt on '80s Campy Super Record, when they went to a single bolt on a half moon shape from the Nuovo Record two bolt design.

I understand grease isn't cool on carbon. Too bad. I guess that's why builders are going to "anti-seize," same as grease! Always viewed Locktite as the solution of last resort when nothing else works, viz. the components don't fit well together and loosen up under torques induced when riding. Now it seems to be standard. Thank the gods of lightweight for that.  Anyone strip out the flats on an aluminum allen bolt Locktited in place? :nono:


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## cxwrench (Nov 9, 2004)

DaveG said:


> Why do people want to convert others to their chain lube regiment? Its like chain lube Jehovah Witnesses.





SPlKE said:


> Exactly. That's why I keep telling people... forget the homebrew, forget all those fancy new chain lubes. Get ProLink, the one and only Best Chain Lube. ProLink... It's got what chains crave.





Fredrico said:


> Aluminum bolts suck. I change over to nickel plated steel wherever possible. Grease the threads and it'll come off 4 years later, no problem. So easy to break aluminum bolts or strip out the threads. Never had any steel bolts come loose, get stuck, strip out, or break. Friends can't say that about their aluminum or carbon builds.
> 
> With grease, I can torque it down just right by hand with the trusty L shaped allen wrench. The grease tells me when its tight very accurately on hard steel. There's an easily discernible point where the bolt snugs down, that's it. The only bolt I have to torque down to around 10 ft.# is the big seat clamp bolt on '80s Campy Super Record, when they went to a single bolt on a half moon shape from the Nuovo Record two bolt design.
> 
> *I understand grease isn't cool on carbon*. Too bad. I guess that's why builders are going to "anti-seize," same as grease! Always viewed Locktite as the solution of last resort when nothing else works, viz. the components don't fit well together and loosen up under torques induced when riding. Now it seems to be standard. Thank the gods of lightweight for that.  Anyone strip out the flats on an aluminum allen bolt Locktited in place? :nono:


That has absolutely nothing to do w/ what we've been discussing. We're talking about _threaded fasteners_ not, for example, a carbon seatpost and/or an carbon frame. That is where you shouldn't use grease, instead you use carbon assembly paste. Has nothing to do w/ anti-seize either.


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## SPlKE (Sep 10, 2007)

I use a _*tiny* bit_ of Phil Wood waterproof grease on threads, and torque 'em to spec.

Never had a problem with them getting loose, or problems removing them at any point in the near or even distant future.


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## Fredrico (Jun 15, 2002)

cxwrench said:


> That has absolutely nothing to do w/ what we've been discussing. We're talking about _threaded fasteners_ not, for example, a carbon seatpost and/or an carbon frame. That is where you shouldn't use grease, instead you use carbon assembly paste. Has nothing to do w/ anti-seize either.


Ok, sorry. 

Just a side rant, casting grave suspicion on the strengths of carbon fiber when torqued down, as the picture of the above handlebars aptly illustrates! :shocked:


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## cxwrench (Nov 9, 2004)

New record for the most worn out pads ever...


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## Steve B. (Jun 26, 2004)

Bike owner must have been friggin deaf to not hear that.


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## Lombard (May 8, 2014)

Steve B. said:


> Bike owner must have been friggin deaf to not hear that.


This was my first thought. And he must have been blind to not notice his discs were scored and most surely trashed.


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## cxwrench (Nov 9, 2004)

They were probably dead before his last (rain) ride. Getting caught at the top of the mountain w/ brakes that are 99% gone will result in this. Definitely not an excuse, but a reason. The less they work the more you want to use them.


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## cxwrench (Nov 9, 2004)

This isn't too bad, but is it really that hard to RTFM?


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## Lombard (May 8, 2014)

Not sure I see what's up with this one other than curling the excess cable around. Am I missing something.


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## BacDoc (Aug 1, 2011)

cxwrench said:


> Another good reason to wash your bike...it's easier to see where your frame is broken. Guy had no idea this had happened, he was just bringing it in for a tune up.


Maybe he's that guy -

Kinda guy who says " hey! It wasn't broken like that when I brought it in!"


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## cxwrench (Nov 9, 2004)

It's not done correctly, supposed to be under the part that holds the cable tension screw. It's something you'd do differently if you paid attention the manual/video. Small thing but it's kinda telling about the quality of the mechanic that did the work.


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## mfdemicco (Nov 8, 2002)

cxwrench said:


> This isn't too bad, but is it really that hard to RTFM?


My new bike has one of those derailleurs and I RTFM and still don't understand it. The manual sucks and don't you think that derailleur is needlessly complicated? What's that allen screw for? Why such a complicated routing of the cable?

Is this right?


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## cxwrench (Nov 9, 2004)

mfdemicco said:


> My new bike has one of those derailleurs and I RTFM and still don't understand it. The manual sucks and don't you think that derailleur is needlessly complicated? What's that allen screw for? Why such a complicated routing of the cable?
> 
> Is this right?


It is correct on your bike. The screw that is sticking out is the one that adjusts cable tension by moving the link. It's specifically noted in the instructions and on the video. The new derailleurs are definitely a little more work to set up but the performance is good enough that it's worth it. The trick is to do them on a regular basis...which is hard if not impossible for the normal guy that doesn't work in a shop. I had to watch the video the first 8-10 times I had to set them up.


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## frdfandc (Nov 27, 2007)

cxwrench said:


> It is correct on your bike. The screw that is sticking out is the one that adjusts cable tension by moving the link. It's specifically noted in the instructions and on the video. The new derailleurs are definitely a little more work to set up but the performance is good enough that it's worth it. The trick is to do them on a regular basis...which is hard if not impossible for the normal guy that doesn't work in a shop. I had to watch the video the first 8-10 times I had to set them up.


I printed out the instructions. My first time doing the new FD adjustment took me 20-25 minutes. Even new bikes have to have the FD checked.

Sent from my SM-G930V using Tapatalk


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## Lombard (May 8, 2014)

cxwrench said:


> I had to watch the video the first 8-10 times I had to set them up.


Yoykes! If a well seasoned wrench like you had a hard time with it, imagine what it would be like for us home mechs. I'll stick with my 5800 and 6800, thank you!


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## frdfandc (Nov 27, 2007)

Lombard said:


> Yoykes! If a well seasoned wrench like you had a hard time with it, imagine what it would be like for us home mechs. I'll stick with my 5800 and 6800, thank you!


It's not hard, just have to be precise and follow the directions to the letter.

Sent from my SM-G930V using Tapatalk


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## cxwrench (Nov 9, 2004)

frdfandc said:


> It's not hard, just have to be precise and follow the directions to the letter.
> 
> Sent from my SM-G930V using Tapatalk


Exactly, it's just like anything else you just have to get used to it and remember the steps. Definitely not difficult.


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## Finx (Oct 19, 2017)

The new Shimano FD cable routing does seem complex on the surface. However, it's really not hard once your know how to do it. It has so many advantages over the old system. No more barrel adjusters, no more wonky cable pull angles... Once it's set, it works so much better, regardless of how poorly the cable routing design on your frame might be. 

The 20-30 minutes I invested in learning how to set up the FD-R8000 was time well spent. 

They are cheap ($38 online). 
They are backwards compatible with your old 5800/6800 mechanical levers. 
They shift much more reliably with less stress and friction in the system. 

I'd take a FD-8000 over the 6800 version a thousand times and twice on Sunday.


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## SPlKE (Sep 10, 2007)

Lombard said:


> Yoykes! If a well seasoned wrench like you had a hard time with it, imagine what it would be like for us home mechs. I'll stick with my 5800 and 6800, thank you!


Heh. I was thinking the same thing.


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## aclinjury (Sep 12, 2011)

cxwrench said:


> It is correct on your bike. The screw that is sticking out is the one that adjusts cable tension by moving the link. It's specifically noted in the instructions and on the video. The new derailleurs are definitely a little more work to set up but the performance is good enough that it's worth it. The trick is to do them on a regular basis...which is hard if not impossible for the normal guy that doesn't work in a shop. I had to watch the video the first 8-10 times I had to set them up.


first time i read shimano's instructions on routing that cable i was scratching my head, i was like WTH why do they do this. Then after putting everything together it made sense. I wish they would make their instructions with actual photos instead with simple schematic like photos. But I guess printing photos would cost more, and they know people will just throw these instructions away anyway


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## duriel (Oct 10, 2013)

Most people don't throw the instructions away.... they put them in a safe place... never to be found again!


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## frdfandc (Nov 27, 2007)

duriel said:


> Most people don't throw the instructions away.... they put them in a safe place... never to be found again!


Yeah, the round file

Sent from my SM-G930V using Tapatalk


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## cxwrench (Nov 9, 2004)

Customer: Yep, I normally do all my own work...


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## frdfandc (Nov 27, 2007)

cxwrench said:


> Customer: Yep, I normally do all my own work...


I guess he doesn't understand arrows

Sent from my SM-G930V using Tapatalk


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## cxwrench (Nov 9, 2004)

frdfandc said:


> I guess he doesn't understand arrows
> 
> Sent from my SM-G930V using Tapatalk


 The arrow is kind of ambiguous, the funny part was the rotor slamming into the caliper and no effort was made to even try flipping the adapter.


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## jetdog9 (Jul 12, 2007)

The markings on Shimano's posts seem to be a little more clear but the banging would be a giveaway...


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## cxwrench (Nov 9, 2004)

jetdog9 said:


> The markings on Shimano's posts seem to be a little more clear but the banging would be a giveaway...


You'd think. It worked before. Nothing had changed. It doesn't work now...there are only 2 ways you can install the adapter. I guess not everything that is completely obvious is actually completely obvious.


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## frdfandc (Nov 27, 2007)

I hate things that are obviously obvious

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## cxwrench (Nov 9, 2004)

I can't make this **** up, I swear. You've got 4 screws and 4 washers...it's not a trick question. Seriously...


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## Lombard (May 8, 2014)

cxwrench said:


> I can't make this **** up, I swear. You've got 4 screws and 4 washers...it's not a trick question. Seriously...


ASFOS's bike?


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## Opus51569 (Jul 21, 2009)

cxwrench said:


> I can't make this **** up, I swear. You've got 4 screws and 4 washers...it's not a trick question. Seriously...


But, one washer per bolt is so boring and symmetrical...


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


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## cxwrench (Nov 9, 2004)

Is it that hard to pay attention to what you're doing?


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## mfdemicco (Nov 8, 2002)

cxwrench said:


> Is it that hard to pay attention to what you're doing?


OK, I can see clamping CF rails in a seatpost that says "alloy rails only," but WTF is an alloy rail? That term is usually reserved for aluminum in bicycle speak, but there are no alloy railed saddles that I'm aware of, and if so they would be too weak as compared to steel, Ti, and CF rails.


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## cxwrench (Nov 9, 2004)

mfdemicco said:


> OK, I can see clamping CF rails in a seatpost that says "alloy rails only," but WTF is an alloy rail? That term is usually reserved for aluminum in bicycle speak, but there are no alloy railed saddles that I'm aware of, and if so they would be too weak as compared to steel, Ti, and CF rails.


It's Specialized...who knows?


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## Marc (Jan 23, 2005)

mfdemicco said:


> OK, I can see clamping CF rails in a seatpost that says "alloy rails only," but WTF is an alloy rail? That term is usually reserved for aluminum in bicycle speak, but there are no alloy railed saddles that I'm aware of, and if so they would be too weak as compared to steel, Ti, and CF rails.


They're being metallurgically correct. All metals use on bikes are alloyed and not pure.

OTOH....the bicycle biz is a unique snowflake of people who don't know what a cog actually is or how it differs from a sprocket...which brings up the entire category of bicycle misnomenclature best left for another time.


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## Fredrico (Jun 15, 2002)

cxwrench said:


> Is it that hard to pay attention to what you're doing?


Gosh, anyone notice the seat's clamped in backwards? :idea:


----------



## tlg (May 11, 2011)

Marc said:


> They're being metallurgically correct. All metals use on bikes are alloyed and not pure.


Yup. Steel of course is an alloy.
No one is using pure titanium. It's weaker than low grade steel. But rather some Ti alloy such as Ti-6Al-4V
CrMo rails are steel containing chromium and molybdenum.
And Vanox is a Vanadium steel alloy




Fredrico said:


> Gosh, anyone notice the seat's clamped in backwards? :idea:


Nuh huh. His bike is too big so he needed to move the saddle forward, thus it's installed the "right" way. :thumbsup:


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## Lombard (May 8, 2014)

tlg said:


> Yup. Steel of course is an alloy.
> No one is using pure titanium. It's weaker than low grade steel. But rather some Ti alloy such as Ti-6Al-4V
> CrMo rails are steel containing chromium and molybdenum.
> And Vanox is a Vanadium steel alloy


Hmmm. What metals which are commonly used for bike frame that aren't alloys?

But generally, when something is described as "alloy", that means an aluminum alloy.


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## duriel (Oct 10, 2013)

tlg said:


> Nuh huh. His bike is too big so he needed to move the saddle forward, thus it's installed the "right" way. :thumbsup:


I think we are being fooled by 'u know who', if you look at the seat/stem angle, regardless of the seat being mounted backwards, the angle is way wrong. There is no way I could sit leaning forward on that seat! It's like pointed to the moon!


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## tlg (May 11, 2011)

Lombard said:


> Hmmm. What metals which are commonly used for bike frame that aren't alloys?


I was referring to saddle rails. But bike frames.... none of course.
And generally in any mechanical/structural component everything is an alloy. Pure metals never have the best properties. 
In my previous career, we used pure molybdenum all the time because we were working at 2500°F and all alloys would melt. 



> But generally, when something is described as "alloy", that means an aluminum alloy.


I dunno. Maybe in a simplistic sense. But that seatpost says "alloy rails only". I'm pretty sure they're not saying to only use saddles with aluminum rails. That'd be a pretty small market.


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## mfdemicco (Nov 8, 2002)

What does that "align arrows" mean? I don't see a mating arrow. Also, look at the saddle rails in the second photo where the carbon is scraped off. Are we looking at a faux carbon railed saddle here? I bought a faux carbon FSA seatpost recently (aluminum with a thin carbon wrap, if it was not painted on).

I think CX set us up with this. It's like those "how many things can you find wrong" puzzles.


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## cxwrench (Nov 9, 2004)

Fredrico said:


> Gosh, anyone notice the seat's clamped in backwards? :idea:


That's the post that came w/ the bike, it didn't work w/ his fit needs so I'm swapping in a zero offset post.


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## SPlKE (Sep 10, 2007)

Lombard said:


> Hmmm. What metals which are commonly used for bike frame that aren't alloys?
> 
> But generally, when something is described as "alloy", that means an aluminum alloy.


Don't Brooks saddles have 100% pure olde fashioned cast iron rails? 


Not to be pedantic, but alloy means any metal that has other metals mixed in.


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## tlg (May 11, 2011)

SPlKE said:


> Don't Brooks saddles have 100% pure olde fashioned cast iron rails?


Carbon baby!


----------



## cxwrench (Nov 9, 2004)

DaveG said:


> Why do people want to convert others to their chain lube regiment? Its like chain lube Jehovah Witnesses.





SPlKE said:


> Exactly. That's why I keep telling people... forget the homebrew, forget all those fancy new chain lubes. Get ProLink, the one and only Best Chain Lube. ProLink... It's got what chains crave.





duriel said:


> I think we are being fooled by 'u know who', if you look at the seat/stem angle, regardless of the seat being mounted backwards, the angle is way wrong. There is no way I could sit leaning forward on that seat! It's like pointed to the moon!


The saddle was perfectly level on the post, which was turned 'backwards' on the bike when it came in.


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## mfdemicco (Nov 8, 2002)

tlg said:


> Carbon baby!


Mr. Brooks is probably rolling over in his grave about now.


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## Lombard (May 8, 2014)

tlg said:


> I dunno. Maybe in a simplistic sense. But that seatpost says "alloy rails only". I'm pretty sure they're not saying to only use saddles with aluminum rails. That'd be a pretty small market.


Good point. In this case, I'm wondering why they don't just say "no carbon rails".


----------



## QuiQuaeQuod (Jan 24, 2003)

Lombard said:


> Good point. In this case, I'm wondering why they don't just say "no carbon rails".


My guess is this case was the result of some corporate policy on how spec requirements should be written: use positive phrasing, avoid negative phrasing.

It likely stems from the fact that "no" and "not" are often missed by readers.


----------



## mfdemicco (Nov 8, 2002)

QuiQuaeQuod said:


> My guess is this case was the result of some corporate policy on how spec requirements should be written: use positive phrasing, avoid negative phrasing.
> 
> It likely stems from the fact that "no" and "not" are often missed by readers.


It was probably just a poor translation from Chinese.


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## cxwrench (Nov 9, 2004)

I think this is it. /thread. You can't **** a bike up more than this guy did. I refused to do a tune up on it because I thought it would ruin our new parts washer.


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## Methodical (Jul 21, 2012)

Wow. What's the story behind that bike, CX? You have to manually clean the gunk off?


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## suicidal_orange (Apr 6, 2019)

As a biking newbie I learned about over lubriction in this thread, I am slightly guilty but happy to say I never got close to that last one. Surprised that rear shifted at all!


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## tlg (May 11, 2011)

cxwrench said:


> I think this is it. /thread. You can't **** a bike up more than this guy did. I refused to do a tune up on it


Wait.... someone brought "that" in for a tune up? As if they couldn't figure out why it wasn't working right?

Looks like old 7sp stuff? Given your shop hourly rate to clean that thing, it'd be cheaper to just buy new components. Maybe even a whole new bike.


----------



## duriel (Oct 10, 2013)

New line item on the shop $ board:
Bike Cleaning @ the CAR WASH: $50.00

But the car wash would have to be close, as I ain't putting that in/on any of my vehicles!


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## Lombard (May 8, 2014)

New parts washer? I wouldn't put that bike anywhere near that. And he just asked for a tune-up? I think I would have explained to him that before a tune up could happen, there would be a special cleaning charge. Take it outside and soak it with some strong solvents. 

If you won't touch it, I'm sure some shop will - for a nice fee of course.


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## cxwrench (Nov 9, 2004)

Methodical said:


> Wow. What's the story behind that bike, CX? You have to manually clean the gunk off?


I told him we wouldn't work on it. It's ooolllldd...cantilever brakes and a RS Indy fork that looked like it didn't actually have any elastomer bumpers in it. Obviously the whole drivetrain was beyond worn out despite his claim that the 'chain was pretty new'. I told him that it would cost at least double what the bike was worth to make it rideable. No way I was gonna go anywhere near it, bikes like this are going to be a huge pain as well as probably ruin whatever clothes and shoes you're wearing. Not worth it.


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## velodog (Sep 26, 2007)

cxwrench said:


> I told him we wouldn't work on it. It's ooolllldd...cantilever brakes and a RS Indy fork that looked like it didn't actually have any elastomer bumpers in it. Obviously the whole drivetrain was beyond worn out despite his claim that the 'chain was pretty new'. I told him that it would cost at least double what the bike was worth to make it rideable. No way I was gonna go anywhere near it, bikes like this are going to be a huge pain as well as probably ruin whatever clothes and shoes you're wearing. Not worth it.


The owner needs to take a high pressure washer to it so he can take a good look at it before tossing it in the recycle bin.


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## dir-t (Oct 14, 2005)

velodog said:


> before tossing it in the recycle bin.


If I could find new rings for it, I would LOVE to have that STX-RC crank for my 94 Cannondale M600 townie. That's what it had when it was new.


----------



## No Time Toulouse (Sep 7, 2016)

cxwrench said:


> I told him we wouldn't work on it. It's ooolllldd...cantilever brakes and a RS Indy fork that looked like it didn't actually have any elastomer bumpers in it. Obviously the whole drivetrain was beyond worn out despite his claim that the 'chain was pretty new'. I told him that it would cost at least double what the bike was worth to make it rideable. No way I was gonna go anywhere near it, bikes like this are going to be a huge pain as well as probably ruin whatever clothes and shoes you're wearing. Not worth it.


I used to volunteer at a place that took bikes like that, and fixed them up for sale or giveaways to needy people. I've seen worse, AND made it work, albeit mostly with used parts.

But seriously, homeless people take better care of their bikes than THAT guy!


----------



## blackfrancois (Jul 6, 2016)

cxwrench said:


> I refused to do a tune up on it because I thought it would ruin our new parts washer.


good for you.

that's ridiculous anyone would bring his bike to a shop in that condition or even half as bad. i'd tell the guy to **** right off.


----------



## Lombard (May 8, 2014)

No Time Toulouse said:


> But seriously, homeless people take better care of their bikes than THAT guy!


How many homeless people own bikes and if they do, have the resources to clean a bike?


----------



## bvber (Apr 23, 2011)

cxwrench, maybe that person had bone to pick with you and brought that in as F U?


----------



## bvber (Apr 23, 2011)

Lombard said:


> How many homeless people own bikes and if they do, have the resources to clean a bike?


Haven't you seen one of those tent cities?


----------



## cxwrench (Nov 9, 2004)

bvber said:


> cxwrench, maybe that person had bone to pick with you and brought that in as F U?
> View attachment 325026


Really?


----------



## velodog (Sep 26, 2007)

cxwrench said:


> Really?


CX, please, you gotta uncheck those chain lube multi quotes.


----------



## SPlKE (Sep 10, 2007)

velodog said:


> CX, please, you gotta uncheck those chain lube multi quotes.


Exactly. That's why I keep telling people... forget the homebrew, forget all those fancy new chain lubes. Get ProLink, the one and only Best Chain Lube. ProLink... It's got what chains crave.


----------



## velodog (Sep 26, 2007)

SPlKE said:


> Exactly. That's why I keep telling people... forget the homebrew, forget all those fancy new chain lubes. Get ProLink, the one and only Best Chain Lube. ProLink... It's got what chains crave.


AAAAARGH!!! :mad2: :mad2: :mad2:


----------



## QuiQuaeQuod (Jan 24, 2003)

I was just thinking the other day that there should be things like this showing up in this thread, given late spring and trails opening.



blackfrancois said:


> that's ridiculous anyone would bring his bike to a shop in that condition or even half as bad. i'd tell the guy to **** right off.


I'd tell him what cx told him, not worth doing, cost being more than the bike was worth. No need to anger someone who is clearly just an idiot.

But this really looks like a case of someone who rode until the bike stopped working, then took it in to be fixed. And by that I mean the owner literally would do that for any reason, and never did preventative maintenance. There are people like that. "It won't X anymore, so time to take it in."

If that's the situation, the actually amazing thing is just how bad it could get before it stopped working.


----------



## cxwrench (Nov 9, 2004)

velodog said:


> CX, please, you gotta uncheck those chain lube multi quotes.


Sorry, I hate that about this forum. It's the only one I've ever seen that does that. I'll try to remember!


SPlKE said:


> Exactly. That's why I keep telling people... forget the homebrew, forget all those fancy new chain lubes. Get ProLink, the one and only Best Chain Lube. ProLink... It's got what chains crave.


Oh Jesus...just stop.


----------



## SPlKE (Sep 10, 2007)

cxwrench said:


> Sorry, I hate that about this forum. It's the only one I've ever seen that does that. I'll try to remember!
> 
> 
> Oh Jesus...just stop.


How did you get an old post of mine stuck in a bunch of your posts?


----------



## Lombard (May 8, 2014)

cxwrench said:


> Sorry, I hate that about this forum. It's the only one I've ever seen that does that. I'll try to remember!


What do you do that causes that?


----------



## cxwrench (Nov 9, 2004)

Lombard said:


> What do you do that causes that?


If I quote a post, then at some point later in the thread I quote another post the forum automatically includes every post I've quoted in the thread. Before I posted this quote I had to delete the quotes from Spike and someone else...they were above your quote. I've never seen this happen on any other forum and it happens on my work desktop as well as my MacBook at home.


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## SPlKE (Sep 10, 2007)

cxwrench said:


> If I quote a post, then at some point later in the thread I quote another post the forum automatically includes every post I've quoted in the thread. Before I posted this quote I had to delete the quotes from Spike and someone else...they were above your quote. I've never seen this happen on any other forum and it happens on my work desktop as well as my MacBook at home.


Mac? There's your problem right there, lady.

For a while, I just thought you super-agreed with my opinion about ProLink, _the Friction Mutilator_, and wanted to share it all the time with all of your fans on RBR.

I began to think of myself as an _Influencer_, in the dumbly RBR social media context of that word.


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## Marc (Jan 23, 2005)

Lombard said:


> What do you do that causes that?


Using the multi quote button, toggle it on on a post...and it stays toggled forever, and that post will forever get quotes in your posts...until you untoggle it


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## Lombard (May 8, 2014)

cxwrench said:


> If I quote a post, then at some point later in the thread I quote another post the forum automatically includes every post I've quoted in the thread. Before I posted this quote I had to delete the quotes from Spike and someone else...they were above your quote. I've never seen this happen on any other forum and it happens on my work desktop as well as my MacBook at home.


I don't know how this happens. It never happens to me. Must be an Apple thing.


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## bvber (Apr 23, 2011)

Lombard said:


> I don't know how this happens. It never happens to me. Must be an Apple thing.


Never happened to me either. Maybe this forum had bone to pick with cxwrench and did that as F U?







:lol:


----------



## cxwrench (Nov 9, 2004)

SPlKE said:


> Mac? There's your problem right there, lady.
> 
> For a while, I just thought you super-agreed with my opinion about ProLink, _the Friction Mutilator_, and wanted to share it all the time with all of your fans on RBR.
> 
> I began to think of myself as an _Influencer_, in the dumbly RBR social media context of that word.


Those _Influencers_ can make some dough. 

To post this reply/quote I had to delete the post from Dave G and your earlier post about Pro Link. My work computer is a PC on Windows 10 so it's not just an Apple thing.


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## Opus51569 (Jul 21, 2009)

cxwrench said:


> No way I was gonna go anywhere near it, bikes like this are going to be a huge pain as well as probably ruin whatever clothes and shoes you're wearing. Not worth it.


And having now seen your workspace in the Workspace Wednesday thread, I can see why...


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## velodog (Sep 26, 2007)

Marc said:


> Using the multi quote button, toggle it on on a post...and it stays toggled forever, and that post will forever get quotes in your posts...until you untoggle it


The Answer.


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## cxwrench (Nov 9, 2004)

DaveG said:


> Why do people want to convert others to their chain lube regiment? Its like chain lube Jehovah Witnesses.





SPlKE said:


> Exactly. That's why I keep telling people... forget the homebrew, forget all those fancy new chain lubes. Get ProLink, the one and only Best Chain Lube. ProLink... It's got what chains crave.





velodog said:


> The Answer.


I don't think so. There are definitely times that I haven't used it and multiple past quotes have shown up in a post. I rarely use multi-quote.


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## velodog (Sep 26, 2007)

I know that any time I haven't untoggled a multi-quote the toggled quote shoes up in my next reply and needs to be untoggled not to show up again.

But then again, maybe you know this and you're really an agent for "ProLink, the one and only Best Chain Lube". Might even be in cahoots with Spike in this endeavor. But this is just speculation on my part.


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## Lombard (May 8, 2014)

cxwrench said:


> I don't think so. There are definitely times that I haven't used it and multiple past quotes have shown up in a post. I rarely use multi-quote.


I still don't quite understand. Can't you just highlight and cut out the part you don't want to be in the reply?



velodog said:


> But then again, maybe you know this and you're really an agent for "ProLink, the one and only Best Chain Lube". Might even be in cahoots with Spike in this endeavor.


And remember the CX and I are the same person with different accounts.


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## xxl (Mar 19, 2002)

velodog said:


> I know that any time I haven't untoggled a multi-quote the toggled quote shoes up in my next reply and needs to be untoggled not to show up again....


Sounds like you have a sticky multi-quote toggle; some Pro-Link dripped on your keyboard will stop that from happening.


----------



## velodog (Sep 26, 2007)

xxl said:


> Sounds like you have a sticky multi-quote toggle; some Pro-Link dripped on your keyboard will stop that from happening.


Hey, you hornin' in on CX's kick backs?


----------



## rideit (Feb 8, 2005)

This thread made me decide to try Dumonde after 20 years of home-brew and pro link.


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## Methodical (Jul 21, 2012)

Try clearing "Cache" so the multi quote gets cleared up. This is a good thing to do on your computer every then and again.


----------



## cxwrench (Nov 9, 2004)

DaveG said:


> Why do people want to convert others to their chain lube regiment? Its like chain lube Jehovah Witnesses.





SPlKE said:


> Exactly. That's why I keep telling people... forget the homebrew, forget all those fancy new chain lubes. Get ProLink, the one and only Best Chain Lube. ProLink... It's got what chains crave.





Methodical said:


> Try clearing "Cache" so the multi quote gets cleared up. This is a good thing to do on your computer every then and again.


Tried it then quoted your post...and it still includes the other 2 from Dave G & SPIKE. I guess I'll just have to remember to check for other quotes and then delete them manually.


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## bvber (Apr 23, 2011)

cxwrench said:


> Tried it then quoted your post...and it still includes the other 2 from Dave G & SPIKE. I guess I'll just have to remember to check for other quotes and then delete them manually.


You may need a deep cleaning of your computer app. Kind of like heavily gunked up bicycle drivetrain, you gotta take it a part and scrub it thoroughly with brush and degreaser / solvent.


----------



## Lombard (May 8, 2014)

bvber said:


> You may need a deep cleaning of your computer app. Kind of like heavily gunked up bicycle drivetrain, you gotta take it a part and scrub it thoroughly with brush and degreaser / solvent.


I think maybe it's a sign that we all should be using what chains crave.


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## SPlKE (Sep 10, 2007)

cxwrench said:


> Tried it then quoted your post...and it still includes the other 2 from Dave G & SPIKE. I guess I'll just have to remember to check for other quotes and then delete them manually.


All due respect to Dave G, Dave G is 110% wrong about chain lube.


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## 202cycle (Sep 13, 2011)

Time for a tune up. This guy called me yesterday to ask how much a tune up would cost. When I gave him the price, he freaked out. "My car mechanic charges less than that. My plumber..." Like somehow my trade is worth less than theirs. Believe me, his car mechanic or plumber would have charged extra for this sh#t.


----------



## cxwrench (Nov 9, 2004)

202cycle said:


> Time for a tune up. This guy called me yesterday to ask how much a tune up would cost. When I gave him the price, he freaked out. "My car mechanic charges less than that. My plumber..." Like somehow my trade is worth less than theirs. Believe me, his car mechanic or plumber would have charged extra for this sh#t.


----------



## Akirasho (Jan 27, 2004)

202cycle said:


> Time for a tune up. This guy called me yesterday to ask how much a tune up would cost. When I gave him the price, he freaked out. "My car mechanic charges less than that. My plumber..." Like somehow my trade is worth less than theirs. Believe me, his car mechanic or plumber would have charged extra for this sh#t.


Even the crud in these photos is begging someone to get the crud off them. :cryin:


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## velodog (Sep 26, 2007)

202cycle said:


> Time for a tune up. This guy called me yesterday to ask how much a tune up would cost. When I gave him the price, he freaked out. "My car mechanic charges less than that. My plumber..." Like somehow my trade is worth less than theirs. Believe me, his car mechanic or plumber would have charged extra for this sh#t.


Is that a Ninja Throwing Star?


----------



## SPlKE (Sep 10, 2007)

202cycle said:


> Time for a tune up. This guy called me yesterday to ask how much a tune up would cost. When I gave him the price, he freaked out. "My car mechanic charges less than that. My plumber..." Like somehow my trade is worth less than theirs. Believe me, his car mechanic or plumber would have charged extra for this sh#t.


Hit it with a few squirts of WD40. It'll be like new in two shakes of a lamb's tail.


----------



## tlg (May 11, 2011)

velodog said:


> Is that a Ninja Throwing Star?


Yes it is. While clearly the spikes aren't long enough to cause a fatal wound. The toxic coating will cause Botulism in even the slightest scratch.


----------



## 202cycle (Sep 13, 2011)

The derailleur is in the scrap pile. No way in hell I was going to clean that thing.


----------



## bvber (Apr 23, 2011)

^ There are spas with a pool of little fishes that eat / clean dead skin off of your feet when you dip in. I wonder if there is a version of such creatures for gunked up machine parts...


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## frdfandc (Nov 27, 2007)

If anyone wants to see some messed up bikes. Join "The Funny Side to Bike Mechanics" on Facebook. There are some doozies being posted daily.


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## eboos (Mar 22, 2011)

202cycle said:


> Time for a tune up. This guy called me yesterday to ask how much a tune up would cost. When I gave him the price, he freaked out. "My car mechanic charges less than that. My plumber..." Like somehow my trade is worth less than theirs. Believe me, his car mechanic or plumber would have charged extra for this sh#t.


The guy must have been a beast to spend so much time in the small cog to wear it out like that. Or the rear mech was so crudded up the bike hadn't shifted in years.


----------



## Lombard (May 8, 2014)

eboos said:


> The guy must have been a beast to spend so much time in the small cog *to wear it out like that*. Or the rear mech was so crudded up the bike hadn't shifted in years.


I actually knew someone whose derailleur pulleys looked like that.


----------



## 202cycle (Sep 13, 2011)

This did not work.


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## velodog (Sep 26, 2007)

202cycle said:


> This did not work.


Is that some kind of an attempt at a weld of some sort?


----------



## Akirasho (Jan 27, 2004)

velodog said:


> Is that some kind of an attempt at a weld of some sort?


Looks as if someone thought aluminum welded just like steel...


----------



## davez26 (Nov 15, 2010)

202cycle said:


> This did not work.


It looks like someone knew where the equipment was, and how to turn it on. 
After that, the knowledge curve quickly flattened. 
My dad once welded a pedal to my crank, (back when we actually used steel cranks).
I am not sure what happened here. 

Sent from my XT1635-01 using Tapatalk


----------



## SPlKE (Sep 10, 2007)

I was thinking...

... laid bike down on its drive side in a seemingly dormant lava field near Kīlauea... to get the cool selfie, which is a requirement when you venture to any exotic location. 

Complications ensued.


----------



## rideit (Feb 8, 2005)

bvber said:


> ^ There are spas with a pool of little fishes that eat / clean dead skin off of your feet when you dip in. I wonder if there is a version of such creatures for gunked up machine parts...
> View attachment 325105


Yes, it’s called an ultrasonic cleaner.


----------



## No Time Toulouse (Sep 7, 2016)

202cycle said:


> This did not work.


Well, it COULD still 'work' as a cudgel.......


----------



## Akirasho (Jan 27, 2004)

202cycle said:


> This did not work.


… the more I look at this, the more I'm convinced that someone left their torch within hand's reach of their 5 year old.


----------



## tlg (May 11, 2011)

If you ever seen inside a manure spreader.... that's what it looks like. Maybe the rider suffers from IBS.


----------



## OldChipper (May 15, 2011)

cxwrench said:


> It is correct on your bike. The screw that is sticking out is the one that adjusts cable tension by moving the link. It's specifically noted in the instructions and on the video. The new derailleurs are definitely a little more work to set up but the performance is good enough that it's worth it. The trick is to do them on a regular basis...which is hard if not impossible for the normal guy that doesn't work in a shop. I had to watch the video the first 8-10 times I had to set them up.


Absolutely agree and WAY better than those damn in-line cable adjusters that were needed with the previous gen. 

Interesting/amusing FD story... I recently purchased a high-end, lightly-used demo bike. I had to swap the cranks from my previous "A" bike which, being 52/36 vs. 50/34 on the demo, required resetting the FD. Couldn't figure out why I couldn't get the 9100 FD support screw in far enough to touch the braze-on. Backed it out and discovered that whichever newb shop mechanic built the bike had put blue Loctite on the support screw! ut: What exactly is the thinking *there*???? Same genius had put Loctite on the BB threads! I mean, yeah, it was Italian thread but is it really that hard to just torque it properly and keep an eye on it????


----------



## ogre (Dec 16, 2005)

Akirasho said:


> … the more I look at this, the more I'm convinced that someone left their torch within hand's reach of their 5 year old.


I bet that the mission was a total success, and all they were trying to do was to salvage the pedal.


----------



## cxwrench (Nov 9, 2004)

Fear not, I've been slacking on this thread but I'm back. Guy brings in a bike today, says he thinks he may have screwed up the front brake. 

Possibly...










Rotor is definitely toast...










Eh, pretty sure I've seen worse...










But not worse than this...and what's left of it is not flat. The piston actually bent the backing plate a bunch. 











The brake was actually using the piston on that side as the friction material so I have to do a rebuild w/ new pistons/seals.


----------



## Finx (Oct 19, 2017)

> ...I have to do a rebuild w/ new pistons/seals..



You're a better man than me. If I were that persons mechanic, they would be buying a new caliper, rotor, brake hose/fittings, etc..


----------



## cxwrench (Nov 9, 2004)

Finx said:


> You're a better man than me. If I were that persons mechanic, they would be buying a new caliper, rotor, brake hose/fittings, etc..


New rotor for sure. The hose and fittings are fine.


----------



## Lombard (May 8, 2014)

How was he even able to brake? Fred Flintstone??


----------



## cxwrench (Nov 9, 2004)

Lombard said:


> How was he even able to brake? Fred Flintstone??


After the pad wore through it was piston v rotor.


----------



## cxwrench (Nov 9, 2004)

He's pretty sure the noise is coming from his cassette. I'm pretty sure it's not. All that rust came from the 2 bearings, the bolts and bushing are aluminum.


----------



## Lombard (May 8, 2014)

cxwrench said:


> After the pad wore through it was piston v rotor.


Interesting approach.........but eventually fatal.


----------



## Marc (Jan 23, 2005)

cxwrench said:


> He's pretty sure the noise is coming from his cassette. I'm pretty sure it's not. All that rust came from the 2 bearings, the bolts and bushing are aluminum.


What bike frame if you don't mind? That almost looks like a seat-tube/stay junction...which would mean that bearing had the weather seals of tissue paper to be that bad.


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## cxwrench (Nov 9, 2004)

Marc said:


> What bike frame if you don't mind? That almost looks like a seat-tube/stay junction...which would mean that bearing had the weather seals of tissue paper to be that bad.


Older Trek Domane. The bearing seals aren't the issue. It's sweat/water getting under the Iso Speed cover (the part I'm holding in the first photo) and never doing any maintenance.


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## tlg (May 11, 2011)

Marc said:


> What bike frame if you don't mind? That almost looks like a seat-tube/stay junction...which would mean that bearing had the weather seals of tissue paper to be that bad.


Seals only protect the innards of the bearing. There's lots of exposed steel which will 'bleed' rust when exposed to rain and sweat.


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## sasquatch16 (Feb 7, 2013)

cxwrench said:


> Older Trek Domane. The bearing seals aren't the issue. It's sweat/water getting under the Iso Speed cover (the part I'm holding in the first photo) and never doing any maintenance.


What maintenance is required on the Domane Iso Speed? Should it be taken apart occasionally?


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## 202cycle (Sep 13, 2011)

sasquatch16 said:


> What maintenance is required on the Domane Iso Speed? Should it be taken apart occasionally?


Unless you want it to look like the one in the above photo, yes it should.


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## eboos (Mar 22, 2011)

cxwrench said:


> He's pretty sure the noise is coming from his cassette. I'm pretty sure it's not. All that rust came from the 2 bearings, the bolts and bushing are aluminum.


Wow, I had 16 year old neglected headset bearings that look much better.


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## cxwrench (Nov 9, 2004)

You know how people always say "Damn triathletes"? There are so many good reasons, here's a couple:

Saddle bag installation should be part of the standard IQ test...at least the strap is kinda right this time. 










She said her tape had been like this for "just a couple months"...


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## Marc (Jan 23, 2005)

cxwrench said:


> You know how people always say "Damn triathletes"? There are so many good reasons, here's a couple:
> 
> Saddle bag installation should be part of the standard IQ test...at least the strap is kinda right this time.
> 
> ...


Needs a few more HS spacers...and scotch tape?


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## frdfandc (Nov 27, 2007)

Marc said:


> Needs a few more HS spacers...and scotch tape?


Yes. Assembly lines use a type of scotch tape to secure the cables to the stem before wrapping the bars.

Sent from my SM-G977U using Tapatalk


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## cxwrench (Nov 9, 2004)

frdfandc said:


> Yes. Assembly lines use a type of scotch tape to secure the cables to the stem before wrapping the bars.
> 
> Sent from my SM-G977U using Tapatalk


Yeah, I guess it's cheaper. I hate that scotch tape...and cheap electrical tape.


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## Touch0Gray (May 29, 2003)

cxwrench said:


> Yeah, I guess it's cheaper. I hate that scotch tape...and cheap electrical tape.


Good thing a mechanic never touches my bike, I use nylon filament packing tape to secure my cables before wrapping. I also clean all the residue off with mineral spirits before replacing it. The pictures you have been posting amaze me. For the most part, you could touch any part of my bike without having to wipe your hands off with the exception of the chain when it needs to be swapped out for the clean one after 800 miles or so. (then they get cleaned in spirits in an ultrasonic, oiled and wrapped in newspaper to get the excess off until they go back on the bike) I guess I might be a little ocd about keeping my bikes clean. As a result, I pretty much never have problems on the road! Some of the really crusty ones you post, make me wonder how much they get ridden.


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## SPlKE (Sep 10, 2007)

These latest posts renewed my disdain for tri-dooshes so much, I refused to wave back at em on my ride yesterday. 

I'm a bad emmer-effer when I get riled up.


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## cxwrench (Nov 9, 2004)

Not neglect but a good reason to not buy a kids bike at a toy store. Both shots are the same crank arm. 



















Guy bought the bike in the box. Couldn't figure out why the left pedal wouldn't thread in to the crank. :shocked: No name crank so we couldn't warranty it, no problem we'll order a new one, they're cheap. New crank came in, ended up using a pickle fork to remove this stupid thing.


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## 202cycle (Sep 13, 2011)

That's a first for me. Lookslikebikes.


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## Mr. Versatile (Nov 24, 2005)

cxwrench said:


> What oil are you using? I think I'm gonna mix some up and give it a go.


I use it almost exclusively. 4 parts odorless mineral spirits & one part oil. It doesn't matter what motor oil is used. We're not lubing Formula 1 cars or top fuel dragsters. Any motor oil is going to be just fine for about 500 miles or so. 

I start by wiping down the chain with a WD40 soaked rag. Next I use a Park cog brush while running the chain in both directions. This cleans off anything that's stuck between the rollers. Wipe down again with a dry rag. Lastly I apply homebrew liberally with a small paint brush. When I can, I like to leave it overnight to be sure the mineral spirits have evaporated. Wipe the chain down thoroughly with a dry rag & you're good to go. These directions are lon, but the whole process takes maybe 5 min.

To give credit where it's due I copied this recipe from Kerry Irons posts.


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## Touch0Gray (May 29, 2003)

Mr. Versatile said:


> I use it almost exclusively. 4 parts odorless mineral spirits & one part oil. It doesn't matter what motor oil is used. We're not lubing Formula 1 cars or top fuel dragsters. Any motor oil is going to be just fine for about 500 miles or so.
> 
> I start by wiping down the chain with a WD40 soaked rag. Next I use a Park cog brush while running the chain in both directions. This cleans off anything that's stuck between the rollers. Wipe down again with a dry rag. Lastly I apply homebrew liberally with a small paint brush. When I can, I like to leave it overnight to be sure the mineral spirits have evaporated. Wipe the chain down thoroughly with a dry rag & you're good to go. These directions are lon, but the whole process takes maybe 5 min.
> 
> To give credit where it's due I copied this recipe from Kerry Irons posts.


same formula I use, except I had a couple of quarts of mobile1 10W20 so that's kind of a lifetime supply. I tried chainsaw-chain lube for a while but it was gummy, stringy stuff and picked up everything, then I switched to vegetable based for the saw since I am essentially spraying all over my property and I'd rather not pollute. I got about 12,000 miles with 2 chains and a cassette so it must work ok


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## Lombard (May 8, 2014)

People must be taking really good care of their bikes during the pandemic. You haven't posted any bike care disasters in awhile, cxwrench.


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## ogre (Dec 16, 2005)

Lombard said:


> People must be taking really good care of their bikes during the pandemic. You haven't posted any bike care disasters in awhile, cxwrench.


I recently joined the FB group 'The WTF side of bike mechanics'. There's a steady flow of content that would fit right in here.


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## cxwrench (Nov 9, 2004)

Lombard said:


> People must be taking really good care of their bikes during the pandemic. You haven't posted any bike care disasters in awhile, cxwrench.


If anything they're worse cuz everyone is riding more. I've been so busy I haven't taken any photos lately...but it's not because there's a shortage of **** bikes. This is the only one I have handy, guy put his own bike together and just wanted me to 'touch it up'. After seeing this chain install I told him to give his tools away.


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## Lombard (May 8, 2014)

cxwrench said:


> If anything they're worse cuz everyone is riding more. I've been so busy I haven't taken any photos lately...but it's not because there's a shortage of **** bikes. This is the only one I have handy, guy put his own bike together and just wanted me to 'touch it up'. After seeing this chain install I told him to give his tools away.


Well to be fair, the first time ever in my life I replaced a chain, I guided the chain through the pulleys wrong and when it performed like crap, I figured out what I did wrong and never did it again.


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## Finx (Oct 19, 2017)

Lombard said:


> Well to be fair, the first time ever in my life I replaced a chain, I guided the chain through the pulleys wrong and when it performed like crap, I figured out what I did wrong and never did it again.


This is the home mechanics version of falling over the first time you ride in clipless pedals.


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## jetdog9 (Jul 12, 2007)

I'm still so embarrassed that I've done this (a long time ago) and my RD-9000 shows the marks of the mistake that I'm about to pull the trigger on a replacement inner plate despite the ridiculous price because you can't replace just the pin.


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## Methodical (Jul 21, 2012)

cxwrench said:


> If anything they're worse cuz everyone is riding more. I've been so busy I haven't taken any photos lately...but it's not because there's a shortage of **** bikes. This is the only one I have handy, guy put his own bike together and just wanted me to 'touch it up'. After seeing this chain install I told him to give his tools away.


Hey, at least he didn't take it for a test spin with the chain like that.


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## Lombard (May 8, 2014)

Finx said:


> This is the home mechanics version of falling over the first time you ride in clipless pedals.


Yep! Though unlike the one time I did this, I probably fell over about 5 times before I got used to clipless pedals.


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## Lombard (May 8, 2014)

Is this you, cxwrench?

https://imgur.com/a/AmQ81kO


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## cxwrench (Nov 9, 2004)

Lombard said:


> Is this you, cxwrench?
> 
> https://imgur.com/a/AmQ81kO


Nope, not me.


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## Methodical (Jul 21, 2012)

Lombard said:


> Is this you, cxwrench?
> 
> https://imgur.com/a/AmQ81kO


Some amazing stuff...imagine their vehicles maintenance record.


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## duriel (Oct 10, 2013)

The one with the chain around the cassette 3 times was amazing!
I really liked the videos at the bottom!!! excellent!


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## cxwrench (Nov 9, 2004)

Methodical said:


> Hey, at least he didn't take it for a test spin with the chain like that.


Oh no, he rode it. Thought he had everything 'close enough to ride'...he didn't even know it was a problem.


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## 9W9W (Apr 5, 2012)

Finx said:


> This is the home mechanics version of falling over the first time you ride in clipless pedals.


100% Agreed. Happened to me as well.


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## cxwrench (Nov 9, 2004)

Nah...I think you've got a little time left before we need to replace anything...


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## Marc (Jan 23, 2005)

cxwrench said:


> Nah...I think you've got a little time left before we need to replace anything...


Cool table saw!


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## tlg (May 11, 2011)

cxwrench said:


> Nah...I think you've got a little time left before we need to replace anything...


Wow... I wouldn't even think that'd be possible.

I gotta know... what's the chain length measure???


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## Marc (Jan 23, 2005)

tlg said:


> Wow... I wouldn't even think that'd be possible.
> 
> I gotta know... what's the chain length measure???


Note how screwed up the rollers are, NVM the stretch.


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## tlg (May 11, 2011)

Marc said:


> Note how screwed up the rollers are, NVM the stretch.


I did... that's why I want to know the chain length.


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## KWL (Jan 31, 2005)

cxwrench said:


>


Are those are the original cassette and chain from 1993?


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## cxwrench (Nov 9, 2004)

Marc said:


> Note how screwed up the rollers are, NVM the stretch.


I'll check it when it comes back in for the service appt but there isn't any stretch. A ton of wear, no stretch.


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## Lombard (May 8, 2014)

cxwrench said:


> I'll check it when it comes back in for the service appt but there isn't any stretch. A ton of wear, no stretch.


Interesting that it looks like only two of those cogs are well worn. Didn't this guy ever shift?

And that chain looks like it's coming apart.

And dirty as fv*k, though you did tell me you're now working on mostly mountain bikes.


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## cxwrench (Nov 9, 2004)

A lot of guys w/ electric bikes don't shift. That's what kills all the motors on the Specialized bikes. People shift to the 11 and figure since they have a motor why shift to easier cogs? The torque just ruins the motors.


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## Marc (Jan 23, 2005)

cxwrench said:


> A lot of guys w/ electric bikes don't shift. That's what kills all the motors on the Specialized bikes. People shift to the 11 and figure since they have a motor why shift to easier cogs? The torque just ruins the motors.


I imagine it isn't too good for stock cheapo wheels either.


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## cxwrench (Nov 9, 2004)

Marc said:


> I imagine it isn't too good for stock cheapo wheels either.


You would be correct! Many broken spokes.


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## jetdog9 (Jul 12, 2007)

Now we know how ninja throwing stars are made.


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## MDM (Jun 10, 2020)

Reviving an old thread, but couldn't resist posting this photo I saw in another forum.










Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro


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