# For you rattle can painters



## Dave Hickey (Jan 27, 2002)

I'm going to try this on one of my bikes.

It's very hard to get a durable finish with a rattle can paint job... 

This might be the ticket.- A two part paint in a spray can

http://www.repaintsupply.com/pd_2_part_2k_aerosol.cfm

I just ordered it today and ,weather permitting, I will paint a frame next week....

I'll keep everyone updated...


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## David Loving (Jun 13, 2008)

Two minutes shaking a can is an eternity!

"How to Use: First shake for 2 minutes vigorously before activating. " :smilewinkgrin: 

just kidding - that product looks good.


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## crossracer (Jun 21, 2004)

Cant wait to see the results. Preperation is everything.

Good luck. 

Bill


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## zmudshark (Jan 28, 2007)

Looks cool, Dave. I'm interested in seeing the results. I have a rattle can bike right now, it's okay, but not the most durable surface.


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## waldo425 (Sep 22, 2008)

I'm interested to see how this turns out. My last foray into spray paint ended poorly when I started putting the bike together and the paint chipped right off.


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## nayr497 (Nov 8, 2008)

Yep, count me in on the eager to see it.

I've tried rattle can painting twice. First time I cleaned and prepped the frame religiously, used a primer, then did plenty of coats, all with the same make of paint/primer. It looked great...but was so soft you could dig it off with your nail. Never figured out if I shouldn't have used the primer, if I waited too long in between coats, or if it was too cool of an air temp when I did it.

Second time I prepped it well, didn't use the primer, didn't do as many coats, it was warmer...and the paint is still soft. Ugh.

I'd say I'm just terrible at it (user error) but the first time I did it with a friend who has painted a car before. Mechanical engineer so not a dummy about stuff. 

Anyway, good luck! Let us know how it goes!


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## Dave Hickey (Jan 27, 2002)

I sprayed a frame today...This 3Rensho was a rattle can paint job applied last winter. I sprayed the two-part clear on this morning...

It went on very easy...No runs or drips..It's been 4 hrs and the paint is dry to the touch. It's hard to tell from the pictures but the finish is beautiful....it's very glossy.

The instructions say you can polish or wax after 24 hrs...

Initial impression is very positive... We'll see how durable the finish it....based on how the finish "feels", I'm guessing this paint is a huge improvement over normal spray paint


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## waldo425 (Sep 22, 2008)

Dave Hickey said:


> I sprayed a frame today...This 3Rensho was a rattle can paint job applied last winter. I sprayed the two-part clear on this morning...
> 
> It went on very easy...No runs or drips..It's been 4 hrs and the paint is dry to the touch. It's hard to tell from the pictures but the finish is beautiful....it's very glossy.
> 
> ...


That doesn't look bad at all. I'm interested to see how it holds up to buffing/ polish. Does it say that you can wet-sand it then polish like normal paints? I'm going to have to try this stuff out.


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## Dave Hickey (Jan 27, 2002)

waldo425 said:


> That doesn't look bad at all. I'm interested to see how it holds up to buffing/ polish. Does it say that you can wet-sand it then polish like normal paints? I'm going to have to try this stuff out.




Yeah, you can wet sand after 24 hrs....It's a urethane finish


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## Andy69 (Jun 14, 2008)

too late for Dave but anyone else that tries this or any urethane paint needs to be sure to wear a FULL FACE respirator, paint suit, and gloves. LEAVE NO SKIN EXPOSED.

Urethane paints are nasty. They've got isocyanates in them (think cyanide). They will enter your body not just though your lungs but also through mucus membranes and your skin, which is why you need to be covered. That stuff WILL KILL YOU if you get a high enough exposure. Actually, it's not the paint itself that does it, it's the allergic reaction your body has after you've been exposed enough.

I've sprayed that stuff in the past and I'll tell you, before I do it again I will have a positive pressure fresh air supplied respirator and a ventilated spray booth. It's just not worth it.


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## Dave Hickey (Jan 27, 2002)

Andy69 said:


> too late for Dave but anyone else that tries this or any urethane paint needs to be sure to wear a FULL FACE respirator, paint suit, and gloves. LEAVE NO SKIN EXPOSED.
> 
> Urethane paints are nasty. They've got isocyanates in them (think cyanide). They will enter your body not just though your lungs but also through mucus membranes and your skin, which is why you need to be covered. That stuff WILL KILL YOU if you get a high enough exposure. Actually, it's not the paint itself that does it, it's the allergic reaction your body has after you've been exposed enough.
> 
> I've sprayed that stuff in the past and I'll tell you, before I do it again I will have a positive pressure fresh air supplied respirator and a ventilated spray booth. It's just not worth it.



Andy, Great tips....I sprayed outside with a mask....


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## Andy69 (Jun 14, 2008)

here's a little more info. Obviously, occupational exposure is much more of a hazard, but anyone who sprays this stuff needs to take precautions. This is nasty nasty nasty stuff.

http://www.cdc.gov/niosh/asthma.html



> HEALTH EFFECTS OF ISOCYANATES
> 
> Irritation
> 
> ...





> Case No. 2--Highway Spill
> 
> Two police officers developed asthma-like illness after a single exposure to TDI in the immediate vicinity of a tank car that had overturned on the highway [Luo et al. 1990]. After briefly directing traffic at the accident scene, both officers received medical care for severe symptoms, including burning eyes, throat irritation, cough, chest tightness, and difficult breathing. Treatment included steroids and a bronchodilator.
> 
> ...





> Protective Clothing and Equipment
> 
> When there is potential for isocyanate exposure, workers should be provided with and required to use appropriate personal protective clothing and equipment such as coveralls, footwear, chemical-resistant gloves and goggles, full faceshields, and suitable respiratory equipment.
> 
> ...


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## bicyclerepairman (Mar 12, 2003)

Note to self: Add "painting with urethane paint" to the list of things I'll never be doing.


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## bicyclerepairman (Mar 12, 2003)

nayr497 said:


> .....
> I've tried rattle can painting twice. First time I cleaned and prepped the frame religiously, used a primer, then did plenty of coats, all with the same make of paint/primer. It looked great...but was so soft you could dig it off with your nail. Never figured out if I shouldn't have used the primer, if I waited too long in between coats, or if it was too cool of an air temp when I did it. .....


I didn't think you could wait too long between coats, except perhaps between the primer and the first top coat. Correct me if I'm wrong, but even that doesn't matter if you're in a dry climate.


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## Touch0Gray (May 29, 2003)

wow...thanks for the heads-up on the whole isocyanates issue...... assuming it is true (and I am), there is going to be a HUGE mess to cleanup considering the spray foam insulation is starting to be WIDELY used in construction!!!!!!!

The part about exposure in schools AFTER the fact is frightening if i am understanding it.....is the stuff safe AFTER curing?....or does it out-gas????


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## Dave Hickey (Jan 27, 2002)

Update and a disclaimer

If you take the necessary precautions, this paint is the ticket to getting a good finish

The paint is rock hard after less than 24 hrs.. I clamped the top tube in the bike stand this morning and there isn't a mark( I couldn't do that prior to using this clear coat..even after 9 months of the paint curing)... No finger prints, nada......It's a great finish for rattle can jobs...

As Andy said above, follow the instructions, cover yourself and use a some breathing apparatus.....( I painted outdoors and used a mask).. 

I couldn't be happier with the result.......


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## Richard (Feb 17, 2006)

Dave - did you clearcoat over the chrome as well? Just curious.


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## Andy69 (Jun 14, 2008)

Touch0Gray said:


> wow...thanks for the heads-up on the whole isocyanates issue...... assuming it is true (and I am), there is going to be a HUGE mess to cleanup considering the spray foam insulation is starting to be WIDELY used in construction!!!!!!!
> 
> The part about exposure in schools AFTER the fact is frightening if i am understanding it.....is the stuff safe AFTER curing?....or does it out-gas????


my understanding is once it's fully cured, and that can take a while sometimes, it's perfectly safe as long as it's not burned or heated to excess.


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## Andy69 (Jun 14, 2008)

that looks great Dave. I've seen that 2K rattle can before. Usually the problem with spray bombs is they tend not have enough solids, so they require many more coats to get the same coverage. I think that's not the case with this stuff.

You should see a black or red single stage urethane with a decent cut and buff. there's a reason people take the risk with this stuff. the colors are just deeper than BC/CC.

all in all, the risk is quite minimal for the hobbiest, as long as you take the reasonable precautions seriously.


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## waldo425 (Sep 22, 2008)

Dave Hickey said:


> Yeah, you can wet sand after 24 hrs....It's a urethane finish


Very nice. I am going to try this stuff next time I need to paint anything.


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## Kuma601 (Jan 22, 2004)

Looks very nice Dave:thumbsup:

Andy69 thanks for posting the warnings. Anytime I deal with new chemicals, I look up the MSDS. Some of the stuff out there is really scary.


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## foz (Sep 30, 2004)

Dave, have you ever built a bike that didn't look good? :thumbsup:


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## Dave Hickey (Jan 27, 2002)

Richard said:


> Dave - did you clearcoat over the chrome as well? Just curious.



Just the lugs...

This bike is far from perfect...some of the chrome is discolored or pitted... I figured I'd seal the lugs before it got worse.... 

I like it more because it's not show quality. Out of all the bikes I own, this one is my favorite.....

It's also one of the cheapest at around a $1000. My labor not included......I've done a lot of work on this baby.....


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## TiCruiser (Feb 21, 2009)

Thanks for sharing the info. I've got an old pearl-white Peugeot that I have wanted to repaint. This looks to be a great solution.


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## saf-t (Sep 24, 2008)

Andy69 said:


> too late for Dave but anyone else that tries this or any urethane paint needs to be sure to wear a FULL FACE respirator, paint suit, and gloves. LEAVE NO SKIN EXPOSED.
> 
> Urethane paints are nasty. They've got isocyanates in them (think cyanide). They will enter your body not just though your lungs but also through mucus membranes and your skin, which is why you need to be covered. That stuff WILL KILL YOU if you get a high enough exposure. Actually, it's not the paint itself that does it, it's the allergic reaction your body has after you've been exposed enough.
> 
> I've sprayed that stuff in the past and I'll tell you, before I do it again I will have a positive pressure fresh air supplied respirator and a ventilated spray booth. It's just not worth it.



Actually, think poison ivy. Isocyanates are potent skin and respiratory sensitizers, and the few isocyanate-related deaths I'm aware of have occurred through asthma-like reactions. I've read journal articles that seem to associate dermal exposure with respiratory sensitization, which is particularly scary. Isocyanates are found in many products- auto paints, that "foam in a can" stuff, polyurethane building insulation (currently being marketed as a "green" product) some subfloor adhesives, a number of marine caulks, truck bedliner material, etc. They make strong chemical bonds, which is why they're so useful- the hardness and durability of automobile paint is directly related to the isocyanates in the formula. 

I'm forever telling people to look at a MSDS before using a new product.....

And once it's cured it's fine- it's just the free monomer that's the issue.


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## saf-t (Sep 24, 2008)

Andy69 said:


> my understanding is once it's fully cured, and that can take a while sometimes, it's perfectly safe as long as it's not burned or heated to excess.


Correct. There's some measurable release when trimming cured foam, but it's way less than what occurs during application. Most of the issue these days involves MDI- TDI use is less common due to its toxicity (although MDI and its homopolymers can result in the same problems).

Edit: hey Andy69, want to come work with me?


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## nayr497 (Nov 8, 2008)

Wow, finished bike looks awesome!


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## Andy69 (Jun 14, 2008)

saf-t said:


> Correct. There's some measurable release when trimming cured foam, but it's way less than what occurs during application. Most of the issue these days involves MDI- TDI use is less common due to its toxicity (although MDI and its homopolymers can result in the same problems).
> 
> Edit: hey Andy69, want to come work with me?


safety is my middle name 

that really hacks on the bottom line guys, like my boss 

but like I always say, 5 guys on a job is cheaper in the long run than 3 guys and a body


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## DannyBoy (Feb 19, 2004)

*Many men......*



David Loving said:


> Two minutes shaking a can is an eternity!
> 
> "How to Use: First shake for 2 minutes vigorously before activating. " :smilewinkgrin:
> 
> just kidding - that product looks good.


.......perform a similar movement for well over 2 minutes with ease..........................:thumbsup:


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## Maybeck (Sep 30, 2004)

Who drilled that brake hole


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## Nessism (Feb 6, 2004)

It's been a while now since I was in the business but OSHA allows spraying of urethane paint without a fresh air suit as long as a downdraft paint booth and a charcoal mask is used. Needless to say, very few have a downdraft spray booth in their back yard but suffice it to say that as long as you spray with good ventilation and use a decent respirator, the risks of occasional use of urethane are not overly severe. 

BTW, nice work Dave.


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## Dave Hickey (Jan 27, 2002)

Update...this stuff works....it's the ticket for a durable rattle can paint job....I did an alley cat yesterday that included 5 stops. Each stop had bikes leaning against each other and locks around the tubes.....not a scratch.....


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## Cbookman (Jul 2, 2009)

Dave - Was one can enough for the whole frame at the recommended 2-3 coats?

Looks pretty slick, and far easier than firing up a spray gun system.


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## Dave Hickey (Jan 27, 2002)

Cbookman said:


> Dave - Was one can enough for the whole frame at the recommended 2-3 coats?
> 
> Looks pretty slick, and far easier than firing up a spray gun system.



Plenty left over....I had to throw out half the can( it has a 24hr shelf life once activated)


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## Fixed (May 12, 2005)

*paint?*

The link seems to be just to the clearcoat. Did you use their paint and clearcoat, or just one? Suggesting that their clearcoat over other paint will give a durable finish? Thanks.





Dave Hickey said:


> I'm going to try this on one of my bikes.
> 
> It's very hard to get a durable finish with a rattle can paint job...
> 
> ...


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## Dave Hickey (Jan 27, 2002)

Fixed said:


> The link seems to be just to the clearcoat. Did you use their paint and clearcoat, or just one? Suggesting that their clearcoat over other paint will give a durable finish? Thanks.



I just used the clearcoat over Duplicolor rattle can paint.... The finish is rock hard... no issues at all.. 

The only reason I went this way is because the frame was already painted. If I were starting from scratch, I'd use their color paints as well...


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## Fixed (May 12, 2005)

*good*

The most difficult area to keep nice are painted track ends (rear drop outs). Even with quality Campy Pista bolt on nuts, the paint gets pretty chewed up. Think this urethane clear coat will protect even that? It would be wonderful if so. Thanks.

Also, notice any problem with this clear coat over decals? 



Dave Hickey said:


> I just used the clearcoat over Duplicolor rattle can paint.... The finish is rock hard... no issues at all..
> 
> The only reason I went this way is because the frame was already painted. If I were starting from scratch, I'd use their color paints as well...


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## Dave Hickey (Jan 27, 2002)

Fixed said:


> The most difficult area to keep nice are painted track ends (rear drop outs). Even with quality Campy Pista bolt on nuts, the paint gets pretty chewed up. Think this urethane clear coat will protect even that? It would be wonderful if so. Thanks.
> 
> Also, notice any problem with this clear coat over decals?



I'm not sure it would help on the dropouts. I have a professionally painted bike and it still gets chewed up...

No issue with the decals....My 3Rensho has very thin transfers. the urethane clear coat didn't damage at all..


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## melonbar123 (Sep 20, 2009)

It's been quite some time since your original post. Is the paint still holding up?


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## Dave Hickey (Jan 27, 2002)

melonbar123 said:


> It's been quite some time since your original post. Is the paint still holding up?



Very well....no chips or scratches..This stuff is the ticket for a rattle can paint job


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## frpax (Feb 13, 2010)

Dave,

This clear will go over any paint? Lacquer, specifically?

Do they make it in any colors, other than clear?


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## Dave Hickey (Jan 27, 2002)

frpax said:


> Dave,
> 
> This clear will go over any paint? Lacquer, specifically?
> 
> Do they make it in any colors, other than clear?




Yes, they make plenty of colors.. If I were to do another bike, I'd used their color coats as well. I painted this frame 9 months prior to buying this paint. I was looking for a solution to make an existing rattlecan paint job more durable.

I applied the clear over lacquer although, as mentioned above, the paint had 9 months to dry..


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## boleiro (Jun 11, 2010)

Got a can of the 2K Clear on your results to reshoot my 80's steel ride. You said you used duplicolor as the clear, was it a urethane? I am looking at what I want to use of the color coat and am wondering if I need to stick with a urethane to keep compatible with the urethane clear I will use?


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## Dave Hickey (Jan 27, 2002)

boleiro said:


> Got a can of the 2K Clear on your results to reshoot my 80's steel ride. You said you used duplicolor as the clear, was it a urethane? I am looking at what I want to use of the color coat and am wondering if I need to stick with a urethane to keep compatible with the urethane clear I will use?



I used Lacquer as the color coat but it had plenty of time to dry....I had no issues with compatibility


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## iheartbenben (Mar 18, 2011)

Dear Mr. Hickey,

I would like to trade your seashell conch/kickstand for my empty V8 Can kickstand and rape whistle. Perhaps I could give you some organic 3M filters, not particle like a mask. Paint looks amazing though, better than a powder coat.

I'll be waiting by the mail box.

-Love the Ben


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## Retro Grouch (Apr 30, 2002)

Outstaning job on the paintwork, Sir. That's got to be one of the best rattle can jobs I've seen.

I must a ticking cancer time bomb. Countless times in my youth I'd spray paint parts without a mask and clean my hands off with a rag soaked in leaded gasoline after working on a greasy engine


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## Touch0Gray (May 29, 2003)

Retro Grouch said:


> Outstaning job on the paintwork, Sir. That's got to be one of the best rattle can jobs I've seen.
> 
> I must a ticking cancer time bomb. Countless times in my youth I'd spray paint parts without a mask and clean my hands off with a rag soaked in leaded gasoline after working on a greasy engine


and look at us.....we are better than ever......now what was i saying?


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## boleiro (Jun 11, 2010)

I bear witness to the greatness of R&E 2K Clear. I just finished my first ever bike re paint and it has turned out great. The stuff is easy to apply and looks great. Hopefully durability matches.


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## Dave Hickey (Jan 27, 2002)

That looks great....let us know how it lasts.... Mine is still going strong


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## Tri4fun73 (Aug 21, 2010)

Can I apply this stuff directly to gloss white rustoleum?


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## boleiro (Jun 11, 2010)

A month later... still like this stuff. I have been out for about 150 miles and have definitely heard the pinging of loose gravel and pepples bouncing off the frame, but, no chips. 

don't know about rustoleum compatibility? I used a 2 part rattle can a local auto paint supply canned for me on the spot. If you have one close by, I'd say spend a little more and get that.


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## charlox5 (Jan 31, 2011)

very cool. i need to clear a motorcycle tank/fender that i did last year after applying the decals, and was dreading having to setup the compressor/guns/ventilation/DIY booth just to do it.


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## Tri4fun73 (Aug 21, 2010)

Anyone have luck finding this stuff ( or similar) with a matte finish?


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## Tri4fun73 (Aug 21, 2010)

Finished painting my Cannondale 2.8. It's drying as I type. No issues painting neighbors probably think I look like an astronaut. Sprayed over decals and will post pics as soon as it dries.


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## brankulo (Aug 7, 2014)

resurrecting the thread. have ud matte carbon frame that i wan tot add some accents. 
thinking of masking with helicopter tape and sand where accents go only. paint and clear coat. what is the preferred can paint? i am thinking to give Automotive Touch Up Paint from PaintScratch - Order Pro Grade Paint a try. it comes with clear coat too. anyone used this system?


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## Gregory Taylor (Mar 29, 2002)

I know that I am replying to a three-year old post, but what the hell.

No, this stuff is NOT compatable with Rustoleum, or any other enamel paint. It will lift it up. You might get away with spraying over an older factory baked enamel job, but I would shoot a small spot to see if it lifts. Otherwise, urethanes and lacquer only.


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