# Should I?



## Guest (Aug 12, 2007)

I know this is absolutely the wrong audience to ask this question of, but ...

If resemted with the opportunity to but a Merckx Ti AX frame - which I don't need - but always thought it would be cool to try Ti - should I make the leap and buy the darned thing???


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## estone2 (Sep 25, 2005)

toomanybikes said:


> I know this is absolutely the wrong audience to ask this question of, but ...
> 
> If resemted with the opportunity to but a Merckx Ti AX frame - which I don't need - but always thought it would be cool to try Ti - should I make the leap and buy the darned thing???



yes. buy a litespeed too. they make schweet Ti.


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## boneman (Nov 26, 2001)

*Uh, yes*

Ha ha, what a question. I have an Ex and love the ride. So much so, that I sold my 1999 Vortex. It just fit and handled better for me. Worth looking for an Ex as well. I've bid on a few Ax's but with the Ex in hand, I'm low balling the number so no result so far. The one I'm looking for is the Merckx Titane which were sold in Europe. Painted and with a steel Merckx fork. If I ever see one, then I'll bid to win.



toomanybikes said:


> I know this is absolutely the wrong audience to ask this question of, but ...
> 
> If resemted with the opportunity to but a Merckx Ti AX frame - which I don't need - but always thought it would be cool to try Ti - should I make the leap and buy the darned thing???


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## Guest (Aug 12, 2007)

I did.


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## atpjunkie (Mar 23, 2002)

*good*

no need to buy a Litespeed. Merckx Ti were built by Litespeed to eddy's specs and geo. So you get Old Litespeed craftsmanship with Eddy's geo and pipe specs

win-win in the land o Ti


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## 1 slowpoke (Nov 25, 2007)

*ax to ex*

can some one tell me the difference between the two


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## boneman (Nov 26, 2001)

*some differences*

Two most noticeable differences I noted are as follow: The Ex has a bi-ovalised downtube, ie the oval profile is vertical by the head tube and then switches to horizonatal by the BB, while the Ax downtube is round. Also, the rear drops outs on the Ex are horizontal while the Ax has vertical drop outs. The early Ax's also came with a Al Prism fork. The Ex was only offered as a frame. Eventually that was the same for the Ax as well. I remember something about the dropsout and bb material on the Ex was 6/4 but I would not put too much stock in that and even if true, I doubt anyone would notice a difference in riding. I bought an Ex used about 8 years ago and it's a really nicely made bike that fits me well. No complaints.



1 slowpoke said:


> can some one tell me the difference between the two


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## Big dUnC (Dec 16, 2006)

atpjunkie said:


> no need to buy a Litespeed. Merckx Ti were built by Litespeed to eddy's specs and geo. So you get Old Litespeed craftsmanship with Eddy's geo and pipe specs
> 
> win-win in the land o Ti


I think you'll find that the titanium frames sold during the mid to late 90's were done so using tubesets supplied by Litespeed and built by Merckx in Belgium. Earlier titanium team framesets appear to have been manufactured using Columbus's Hyperion tubesets which were used widely throughout the peleton at the time and there are various reports that the actual welding processes were outsourced due to titaniums properties and notorious workability.

I don't doubt that at some stage there will have been the re - badged Litespeeds bearing the Merckx name but from what I have read Litespeed were invited to both advise/train Merckx staff in the welding of titanium and as we all know supply tubesets.

Interestingly I have just built up one of the last Titanes ( I bought it last year from the factory) which when supplied to me by the factory was minus the 'Litespeed' part of the yellow decal - much to my annoyance. I asked why it had been 'neatly' removed and asked for a replacement. Neadless to say an answer wasn't forthcoming neither a replacement decal - after all it was one of the last - if not the last in stock! I have since replaced it myself but maybe seeing that the Merckx /Litespeed partnership is no longer ,there were trade issues etc who knows - but they were very keen to remove that Litespeed name!! 
Were these not available in the States ?


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## Guest (Nov 28, 2007)

well, the AX I have in the Garage is built on standard Merckx Geometry. The rear dropouts are stamped withthe Merckx Logo and the seat tube bears a decal which says " built by Litespeed in the USA to Eddy Merckx specifications" , or words to that effect.





Big dUnC said:


> I think you'll find that the titanium frames sold during the mid to late 90's were done so using tubesets supplied by Litespeed and built by Merckx in Belgium. Earlier titanium team framesets appear to have been manufactured using Columbus's Hyperion tubesets which were used widely throughout the peleton at the time and there are various reports that the actual welding processes were outsourced due to titaniums properties and notorious workability.
> 
> I don't doubt that at some stage there will have been the re - badged Litespeeds bearing the Merckx name but from what I have read Litespeed were invited to both advise/train Merckx staff in the welding of titanium and as we all know supply tubesets.
> 
> ...


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## boneman (Nov 26, 2001)

*Interesting*

I think you will find that the Ti frames sets marketed in the US used tubesets from Litespeed who also did the building. Merckx supplied the design and distribution. They weren't rebadged Litespeeds. Geometry was slightly different and small details like type of drop outs, seat clamp, etc. were different as well. I owned Litespeeds from the same period. They look and ride differently.

The Titane was marketed only in Europe. When I lived in London, I used to buy a lot off EBay UK and various EBay EU sites and you'd see them infrequently. In terms of seeing one in the flesh, I saw one in Richmond park being ridden and one on the Continent in a shop. These were built using Litespeed supplied tubesets but welded up in Belgium.

You're lucking finding one NOS. Locate it in Manc or on the Continent? One of the few bikes on my must have list. How about a picture?




Big dUnC said:


> I think you'll find that the titanium frames sold during the mid to late 90's were done so using tubesets supplied by Litespeed and built by Merckx in Belgium. Earlier titanium team framesets appear to have been manufactured using Columbus's Hyperion tubesets which were used widely throughout the peleton at the time and there are various reports that the actual welding processes were outsourced due to titaniums properties and notorious workability.
> 
> I don't doubt that at some stage there will have been the re - badged Litespeeds bearing the Merckx name but from what I have read Litespeed were invited to both advise/train Merckx staff in the welding of titanium and as we all know supply tubesets.
> 
> ...


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## 1 slowpoke (Nov 25, 2007)

*ax flex*

how do you Ax owners like the ride. 
i have owned mine for about 6 months and i love the ride, especially on chip seal. i had mine reworked with da drive train, reynolds ouzo pro fork, king head set, ritchey wcs carbon bars, and ksyrium es wheels 
santa is going to bring me a new crank set (sugestions???)

but the more i ride it the more i feel it flex in the bottom bracket. when i talk to my bike shop (they love the bike) there telling me the older ti frames did have some flex. and that mind may have a stress flex?????? whitch means more than usual flex

it is my understanding ti is forever. being this my 2nd road bike (1st was a carbon frame)
i am still in a learning curve as far as the way a bike is supposed to feel.
like i said, i love this bike, but this flex thing has me wondering.

let me know what you think

thanks


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## Big dUnC (Dec 16, 2006)

boneman said:


> I think you will find that the Ti frames sets marketed in the US used tubesets from Litespeed who also did the building. Merckx supplied the design and distribution. They weren't rebadged Litespeeds. Geometry was slightly different and small details like type of drop outs, seat clamp, etc. were different as well. I owned Litespeeds from the same period. They look and ride differently.
> 
> The Titane was marketed only in Europe. When I lived in London, I used to buy a lot off EBay UK and various EBay EU sites and you'd see them infrequently. In terms of seeing one in the flesh, I saw one in Richmond park being ridden and one on the Continent in a shop. These were built using Litespeed supplied tubesets but welded up in Belgium.
> 
> You're lucking finding one NOS. Locate it in Manc or on the Continent? One of the few bikes on my must have list. How about a picture?


 I sourced it through the U.K distributer (approx 1 year ago) with whom I have a good relationship and I suppose I was just lucky to find one unpainted in my size.It has since been painted in the somewhat 'cliched' Motorola colours but does look good. The forks are carbon fibre - not steel and as noted previously the rear drop outs are stamped 'EM'. The decal states :
Litespeed (cut off in my case)
Titanium Custom Tubing
Built by Eddy Merckx 

I've mixed and matched 8/9 speed shimano Dura Ace parts with Ambrosio Nemesis rims and Vittoria tubs, Cinelli grammo stem and Cinelli 66/44 bars - it looks like it belongs in a museum! Wait till the weather's better though ! 

I've also got two SLXs waiting to be built up one NOS ex -factory and one I found oddly enough in a Serrotta dealership in London - unused ! Sometimes it pays to be tall after all !!

I'll post some pics ASAP.

Cheers
dUnC


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## thedips (Mar 26, 2007)

damn i think i just added a new bike to I MUST GET LIST.... Ti MERCKX is beautiful.... my only concern is the stress and fatigue older models may have been subject to.... i feel like a used Ti bike wouldnt be as rigid and hold up as well compared to older steel bikes ... and explode upon me riding it...


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## estone2 (Sep 25, 2005)

thedips said:


> damn i think i just added a new bike to I MUST GET LIST.... Ti MERCKX is beautiful.... my only concern is the stress and fatigue older models may have been subject to.... i feel like a used Ti bike wouldnt be as rigid and hold up as well compared to older steel bikes ... and explode upon me riding it...


There's no reason to think that.
Ti does not fatigue with time. Neither does steel for that matter. Myths on both counts... though I've _never_ heard that myth applied to titanium.

When buying an old Ti bike, just make sure that none of the tubes are cut in half and you're more or less good to go. With a steel bike, you have to look for rust... Ti doesn't rust.


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## thedips (Mar 26, 2007)

thanks! thats what i wanted to know... just i know i didnt want to dive in and just get into Ti.... without knowing any of the pitfalls.. but damn.. now that you say it like that.. looks like i will search for Ti merckx sooner than later!


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## purplecu22 (Sep 25, 2005)

*ex pro is what the pros rode!!*

i have one. Its the tube set, technology from the litespeed ultimate with Eddy's touch and specs. Very good riding frame. Its whats lance road.
:idea:


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## tarwheel2 (Jul 7, 2005)

I've got a Merckx AX as well as a Corsa 01, both the same size (57). The geometry is identical on both of them, and they ride and handle very similarly. The AX has much stouter chainstays and seems to transmit bumps in the rear more, and it also tends to break spokes in the rear wheel more often (altho not enough to be a problem). My AX has carbon Serotta F1 fork that the previous owner installed. It is a nice riding fork, but clearance is tight for tires any larger than 25. I love my AX and it has become my go-to bike for long rides.


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## 1 slowpoke (Nov 25, 2007)

so lance rode the merckx ti or the litespeed ti?????????????????


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## atpjunkie (Mar 23, 2002)

*Lance MAY have*



1 slowpoke said:


> so lance rode the merckx ti or the litespeed ti?????????????????


ridden a Litespeed Ti (but for Eddy merckx) when he rode for Motorola. He definitely rode a litespeed Ti TT Bike rebadged as a Trek for US Postal

so maybe twice


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