# first tour scandal: Beltran positive!



## stevesbike (Jun 3, 2002)

Beltran has tested positive for EPO; another former Postal boy...source velonews


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## Guest (Jul 11, 2008)

I'm tired of this F'ing Sh*T!

I say zero tolerance from here on out. You test positive = lifetime ban. 

Dopers suck!


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## Racer C (Jul 18, 2002)

I guess the VS Take Back the Tour commercial is about to get a little longer


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## 32and3cross (Feb 28, 2005)

Im not sure I support a life time ban esp with out due process but at this point I think all of Liquigas should just go home. You hire Basso you bring a doper to the tour ... the door is that way.


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## Einstruzende (Jun 1, 2004)

Ouch.

At least it was a relative nobody ...


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## Marc (Jan 23, 2005)

Racer C said:


> I guess the VS Take Back the Tour commercial is about to get a little longer


ROFLMAO.


So much for "Take Back the Tour"....


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## weltyed (Feb 6, 2004)

you are joking, right?



Einstruzende said:


> Ouch.
> 
> At least it was a relative nobody ...


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## coop (Jun 8, 2008)

What a Dumb-azz!! In this instace it should be a lifetime ban!!!


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## Spunout (Aug 12, 2002)

History: Mapie, USPS...yup a doper.

Toss the whole team.


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## Racer C (Jul 18, 2002)

32and3cross said:


> Im not sure I support a life time ban esp with out due process but at this point I think all of Liquigas should just go home. You hire Basso you bring a doper to the tour ... the door is that way.


+1 to sending the Liquigas team home. Not only did Beltran test positive for EPO, but how many times has Pozzato tested positive for fancy pants? The Corn Rows during the classics, those flower petal Sidis, sheesh, what does it take to get banned these days?


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## Magsdad (Jun 29, 2005)

And now we get to see if they are really serious.


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## KMan (Feb 3, 2004)

*Liquigas’s out?*

...so I assume Liquigas’s will now be out of the race  

Michael


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## bas (Jul 30, 2004)

stevesbike said:


> Beltran has tested positive for EPO; another former Postal boy...source velonews


Good ole Tricky Beltran... I bet ligget will be really sad.. he liked the guy.


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## Laurent Fignewton (Nov 11, 2005)

Is the policy now that the whole team gets tossed? If so, then there goes Roman Kreuziger & Vincenzo Nibali. Darn -- I was eager to see what Kreuziger could do.


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## Guest (Jul 11, 2008)

Laurent Fignewton said:


> Is the policy now that the whole team gets tossed? If so, then there goes Roman Kreuziger & Vincenzo Nibali. Darn -- I was eager to see what Kreuziger could do.


It's perceived as the noble thing to do. Kinda like letting a French rider win at least one stage. It is "their" race anyway.


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## Einstruzende (Jun 1, 2004)

weltyed said:


> you are joking, right?


Not sure in what context your comment is made.

I'm not happy there is a doping bust at all, however if it had to be someone, better a "relative nobody" (sorry, working for Lance doesn't really change that) than a serious GC contender.


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## Dan Gerous (Mar 28, 2005)

Triki must think: "How am I supposed to keep up with guys 10 years younger than me?"


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## Spunout (Aug 12, 2002)

Too bad for Kreuziger...but maybe not if he's hanging around a bunch of dopers. 

Riders are now going to have to evaluate the team's policies, internal testing, history when signing contracts. This is good, it is the way forward.


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## Jokull (Aug 13, 2007)

According to the last sentence of this report, Liquigas might stay (which is a pity): http://www.cyclingweekly.co.uk/news...for_EPO_at_Tour_de_France_article_263351.html


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## DIRT BOY (Aug 22, 2002)

So much for ASO wanting a clean Tour. So Liquigas out next year like Astana?

Who's next?  :mad2:


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## Dwayne Barry (Feb 16, 2003)

Laurent Fignewton said:


> Darn -- I was eager to see what Kreuziger could do.


Me too. Before the Tour he was talking about dropping out half-way thru, but they interviewed him this morning and he was talking about finishing and seeing how well he could do in the GC.

I hoping no booting of the team. Did Cofidis go last year when Moreni was positive?


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## iliveonnitro (Feb 19, 2006)

Basso returns next year to Liquigas...which should make things interesting. Sounds like Astana has a case against ASO regarding Armstrong/Bruyneel ostracism.


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## iliveonnitro (Feb 19, 2006)

I'm sure they're making bribes and doing "favors" right now to stay in the tour.


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## Dan Gerous (Mar 28, 2005)

iliveonnitro said:


> Basso returns next year to Liquigas...which should make things interesting. Sounds like Astana has a case against ASO regarding Armstrong/Bruyneel ostracism.


Basso and now this, doesn't look good to get race invites next year for Liquigas. 

As for the Astana ban, wasn't it more to punish the owner of the team that also is a sport minister in Kazakland that gave Vino only a one year ban?


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## roadie92 (Jan 21, 2008)

Here we go again


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## Run1stBike2nd (Oct 28, 2005)

The more things change, the more they stay the same. The bottom line here is that there will always be someone who is looking for that extra advantage whether it be legal or not.

Anyone want to venture a guess on who will be next?


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## onebaduce (May 23, 2008)

:mad2: French sports daily L’Equipe has reported on its Web site that Liquigas rider Manuel Beltran has tested positive for the drug EPO. According to an unnamed anti-doping official, the test result came after stage 1 of the tour. Beltran finished stage 1 in 25th place before being one of several randomly selected for anti-doping controls.

Since the Tour is operating without the UCI this year, the French Anti-Doping Agency (AFLD) is responsible for all the blood and urine controls. Once official confirmation comes from AFLD, Manuel Beltran will most likely get the boot from this years tour. _*It is then expected that his team Liquigas, will “voluntarily” leave the tour.*_
Before signing with liquigas last season, Beltran was a member of 3 of Lance Armstrong’s tour winning campaigns.

:mad2: Seriously when is this **** gonna stop? I stopped paying attention for a couple years and this I really started having fun wattching again. Dopers suck and should be made examples of. With the big money pulling out and getting harder to attract big money sponsers who demand squeaky clean teams, The tour won't have a choice but to get stiffer penalties in place. Damn :mad2: :mad2: :mad2:


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## _velodoc_ (Dec 26, 2007)

Racer C said:


> I guess the VS Take Back the Tour commercial is about to get a little longer


hahaha


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## Susan Walker (Mar 21, 2008)

So? It's just an EPO positive. They don't mean nothing anymore: http://www.nytimes.com/2008/06/26/sports/olympics/26doping.html


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## Bertrand (Feb 1, 2005)

Write to Liquigas and ask them to give your regards to Mr. Tricky: 
http://www.teamliquigas.it/2008/eng/main.php?mod=contatti


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## _velodoc_ (Dec 26, 2007)

Susan Walker said:


> So? It's just an EPO positive. They don't mean nothing anymore: http://www.nytimes.com/2008/06/26/sports/olympics/26doping.html


Interesting article, good find!


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## ECXkid04 (Jul 21, 2004)

I don't find this news all that disheartening. I think that we all know that there are still doped up athletes in the pro peloton, as stupid as it might be. I'm happy Beltran's gone. The more guys who get caught, the less other people will be willing to take those same risks again (theoretically). We'll see if anything else happens between now and the end of Le Tour.


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## Xray_ed (Mar 17, 2005)

So what happens if his "B" sample comes back clean? Of course, you KNOW it won't! There's no way they will allow that to happen.

But is if did? I'll bet he'll get the "we know you are doping, we just can't prove it" treatment.

What if he *REALLY IS* clean and the test is wrong? If his B sample comes back clean, he's still out of the race. He's lost his credibility and any monies he would have earned in the tour.

So if this happened and he sued ASO & the lab, what would you think?


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## B15serv (Apr 27, 2008)

To be honest I could do without seeing their fugly team kits anyways.


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## breakaway (Jun 15, 2008)

i say let them all dope up. Because its improbable to stop it anyways.
Lets them all turn into hulks, overly musclebound, two headed freaks on bikes. It;ll be fun to watch.


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## Dwayne Barry (Feb 16, 2003)

_velodoc_ said:


> Interesting article, good find!


Yeah but it's apparently based on a faulty study, or at least faulty conclusions. Pretty sure cyclingnews covered it. Basically the researchers didn't understand WADA protocol and jargon. The unreliability was the inability of one lab to detect the EPO, but they did actually detect it, calling the samples "suspicious" which was the appropriate language for the stage of testing completed.


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## Dwayne Barry (Feb 16, 2003)

breakaway said:


> i say let them all dope up. Because its improbable to stop it anyways.
> Lets them all turn into hulks, overly musclebound, two headed freaks on bikes. It;ll be fun to watch.


Like Rasmussen? The drugs and techniques that make you fast on bike don't add muscle


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## mohair_chair (Oct 3, 2002)

Xray_ed said:


> So what happens if his "B" sample comes back clean? Of course, you KNOW it won't! There's no way they will allow that to happen.
> 
> But is if did? I'll bet he'll get the "we know you are doping, we just can't prove it" treatment.


Hopefully they won't send the B sample to Ghent.


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## breakaway (Jun 15, 2008)

Dwayne Barry said:


> Like Rasmussen? The drugs and techniques that make you fast on bike don't add muscle


Thou i did not list any specific drug or process you shouldnt assume i only mean one drug specific.
Other than that its obviously you dont know too much about performance enhancing anabolic steroids as most banned performance enhancing drugs 'enhance' athletes predicated on their training.
There have been track riders banned for use of stanzanol which they used for power squatting for explosive power and speed on the track.
The only reason Rasmussen is a 110lb chicken is the fact he doesnt eat to support or feed the drugs he taking (thats if he was to take a drug for power performance vs EPO for recovery and endurance)

Besides that... EPO doesnt make you fast



On another note... in 1879 the very first 6day race beganwith was 145hrs continiously. Cyclists back then took absolutely everything including caffeine elixirs, sugar cubes dipped in ether, nitroglycerine, alcohol, cocaine and strychnine. All that just to keep themselves going. All that is rather mild compared to todays methods


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## jorgy (Oct 21, 2005)

Dwayne Barry said:


> Yeah but it's apparently based on a faulty study, or at least faulty conclusions. Pretty sure cyclingnews covered it. Basically the researchers didn't understand WADA protocol and jargon. The unreliability was the inability of one lab to detect the EPO, but they did actually detect it, calling the samples "suspicious" which was the appropriate language for the stage of testing completed.


I think you're just recapitulating WADA's excuses. There wasn't agreement among the labs in what samples were positive or suspicious. That is a problem, IMO.

Seems like WADA is claiming a secret handshake excuse for this one.


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## zosocane (Aug 29, 2004)

*Stupidity.*

This sucks. NFW Liquigas starts tomorrow. They're done, and with the Basso signing they won't be back next year. I bet the Vuelta kicks them out, too. Pozzato will definitely sign with another team for next year.


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## T-Doc (Apr 4, 2002)

I wonder how many other "old school" riders will try to skate by detection this year...I am sure Beltran won't be the last to get caught. 

You know, its crazy...I know the drive for fame and fortune is what's enticing these guys to cheat, but the more they get caught, the more pro cycling loses both fame and fortune...the idiots are cutting their own throats.


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## mohair_chair (Oct 3, 2002)

jorgy said:


> I think you're just recapitulating WADA's excuses. There wasn't agreement among the labs in what samples were positive or suspicious. That is a problem, IMO.
> 
> Seems like WADA is claiming a secret handshake excuse for this one.


Typical WADA. Floyd Landis may be a doper, but at least he had the good sense to make his hearing public, so the deception that is dope testing today could be revealed. It's a sham.


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## David Loving (Jun 13, 2008)

get a rope! They'll have to play the backwards VS commercial backwards and entitle it "give back the Tour" . Yeah, I bet the money and deals are flyin' tonight!


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## AKCheesehead (May 15, 2008)

Man.... Doping on the 1st stage!?!?! I mean c'mon at least wait a week or so, but he is 37 years old, so he might have been a bit behind to start with.

It's a shame for the rest of the tem....maybe Pozzato will go to Garmin/Chipotle?


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## Guest (Jul 11, 2008)

It's almost surreal.

The sport of cycling is being torn apart from inside over political infighting and "doping" issues.

I have been in Arizona for 2 weeks and the papers here are agog at the thought that the Arizona Diamonbacks might sign BArry Bonds. 

You know, BArry Bonds, the billboard for drugs in sport - yet the papers, the TV the radio are excited that he might come here.

Good thing there ain't no double standard.

How do you single out 1 sport and hope to effect change, when other sports do even more than turn a blind eye??


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## zosocane (Aug 29, 2004)

AKCheesehead said:


> It's a shame for the rest of the tem....maybe Pozzato will go to Garmin/Chipotle?


It is a shame. Pozzato is a great racer who will be going back to Italy with the rest of the team tomorrow. So is Nibali and young Roman Kreuziger. So unfair to them.

No question now that Pozzato will leave Liquigas. They won't get a Tour invite next year, not with the Basso signinig + the Triki positive.


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## Dwayne Barry (Feb 16, 2003)

fornaca68 said:


> It is a shame. Pozzato is a great racer who will be going back to Italy with the rest of the team tomorrow. So is Nibali and young Roman Kreuziger. So unfair to them.
> 
> No question now that Pozzato will leave Liquigas. They won't get a Tour invite next year, not with the Basso signinig + the Triki positive.


Liquigas is staying in the race.


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## Guest (Jul 11, 2008)

Dwayne Barry said:


> Liquigas is staying in the race.


Ah Well,

Good to see the "rules" applied consistently.


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## Dwayne Barry (Feb 16, 2003)

jorgy said:


> I think you're just recapitulating WADA's excuses. There wasn't agreement among the labs in what samples were positive or suspicious. That is a problem, IMO.
> 
> Seems like WADA is claiming a secret handshake excuse for this one.


OK, I'll just wait and see when the study is published.


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## rogger (Aug 19, 2005)

mohair_chair said:


> Hopefully they won't send the B sample to Ghent.


Or Australia or anywhere else but Chatenay Malabry.


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## Guest (Jul 11, 2008)

I think he should be allowed to contine the race - wearing a clown suit


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## Susan Walker (Mar 21, 2008)

breakaway said:


> Besides that... EPO doesnt make you fast


If there's one thing in cycling that does make you fast, it's EPO. It really is a wonderdrug.


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## ti-triodes (Aug 14, 2006)

:mad5:


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## Susan Walker (Mar 21, 2008)

AKCheesehead said:


> Man.... Doping on the 1st stage!?!?!


If the test was right and it really was EPO, then it was probably left over from microdosing in the weeks leading up to the Tour.



> It's a shame for the rest of the tem....maybe Pozzato will go to Garmin/Chipotle?


I hope not, I don't like him. And I think he has doper written all over him.


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## jorgy (Oct 21, 2005)

Dwayne Barry said:


> OK, I'll just wait and see when the study is published.


It was published. That's why it's been in the news. Lundby and the rest have a number of publications related to epo. I just downloaded it and am going to read it. But I'm going to guess than Lundby knows more about epo than the WADA hacks that responded to the study.

Lundby, C. _et al._ (2008) Testing for recombinant human erythropoietin in urine: problems associated with current anti doping testing. J Appld Physiol early on-line article

http://jap.physiology.org/cgi/conte...INDEX=0&sortspec=relevance&resourcetype=HWCIT


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## Greggb (Apr 15, 2002)

Hmmm another one of Armstrongs faithful lieutenants caught doping. But Lance never doped. Yeah right, I have a bridge I'd like to sell too.


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## Dwayne Barry (Feb 16, 2003)

jorgy said:


> It was published. That's why it's been in the news. Lundby and the rest have a number of publications related to epo. I just downloaded it and am going to read it. But I'm going to guess than Lundby knows more about epo than the WADA hacks that responded to the study.
> 
> Lundby, C. _et al._ (2008) Testing for recombinant human erythropoietin in urine: problems associated with current anti doping testing. J Appld Physiol early on-line article
> 
> http://jap.physiology.org/cgi/conte...INDEX=0&sortspec=relevance&resourcetype=HWCIT


No, it's not. That's the ahead of publication version. Actual publication hasn't occurred yet. Not that it really matters but it's pain to try to read in that format and the comments. I assmume it will be in the July issue with all the associated comments/letters.


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## bigpinkt (Jul 20, 2006)

AJL said:


> I think he should be allowed to contine the race - wearing a clown suit


:thumbsup: 

Now that I would tune in for


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## empty_set (Nov 1, 2006)

Susan Walker said:


> If there's one thing in cycling that does make you fast, it's EPO. It really is a wonderdrug.


Really? A "Coupling" fan? I thought that was just me and my spouse!

"You could say you're undecided about spots."


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## breakaway (Jun 15, 2008)

Susan Walker said:


> If there's one thing in cycling that does make you fast, it's EPO. It really is a wonderdrug.


Then you need to do some research into what EPO (erythropoietin) really is.

EPO is not a muscle stimulant to enhance explosive power or speed as in say what an olympic weight lifter would need. EPO does not make one a faster pedaller. Ones 60 meter sprint is not going be to 'faster' if an extra unit of blood in taken prior to the race.
EPO was mainly used for medical purposes for individuals that were anemic. But in the athletic arena having excessive blood in your system with its added erythrocyte production it can benefit one in endurance sports such as bike racing.
It does not make you faster!


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## Under ACrookedSky (Nov 8, 2005)

breakaway said:


> Then you need to do some research into what EPO (erythropoietin) really is.
> 
> EPO is not a muscle stimulant to enhance explosive power or speed as in say what an olympic weight lifter would need. EPO does not make one a faster pedaller. Ones 60 meter sprint is not going be to 'faster' if an extra unit of blood in taken prior to the race.
> EPO was mainly used for medical purposes for individuals that were anemic. But in the athletic arena having excessive blood in your system with its added erythrocyte production it can benefit one in endurance sports such as bike racing.
> It does not make you faster!


Wow. Clueless. Completely clueless. Or maybe you are just being a pedantic douchebag.

Question of the day: What is the main limiting factor in a 30K individual time trial?
A) Muscle strength
B) Pulmonary diffusion
C) Oxygen transport to the muscles
D) Explosive power


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## breakaway (Jun 15, 2008)

Under ACrookedSky said:


> Wow. Clueless. Completely clueless. Or maybe you are just being a pedantic douchebag.
> 
> Question of the day: What is the main limiting factor in a 30K individual time trial?
> A) Muscle strength
> ...


you shouldnt call yourself clueless that many times
You definately should seek out medical help thou and while youre at it ask a medical doctor whats the purpose of erythropoietin.
Have your brain checked too while your at it. 
Like i said, it DOESNT MAKE YOU FASTER! If it did you would see 100meter sprinters using rather than the 1600meter runners being caught using it. How do you like that douchbag???


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## Einstruzende (Jun 1, 2004)

breakaway said:


> you shouldnt call yourself clueless that many times
> You definately should seek out medical help thou and while youre at it ask a medical doctor whats the purpose of erythropoietin.
> Have your brain checked too while your at it.
> Like i said, it DOESNT MAKE YOU FASTER! If it did you would see 100meter sprinters using rather than the 1600meter runners being caught using it. How do you like that douchbag???


You still fail.

It makes you faster because you can endure a greater pace over a period of time. No one is arguing that it is capable of turning Thomas Voeckler into Mario Cipollini for a sprint.


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## Under ACrookedSky (Nov 8, 2005)

breakaway said:


> Like i said, it DOESNT MAKE YOU FASTER! If it did you would see 100meter sprinters using rather than the 1600meter runners being caught using it. How do you like that douchbag???


Yup. Totally clueless. Maybe you should check out Victor Conte's doping schedules for sprinters. Even though they were competing in events that were nearly completely anaerobic they were still injecting EPO every two to three days.

EPO increases oxygen delivery capacity to the muscles, which is generally the limiting factor in endurance exercise. EPO will increase the power you can sutainably generate and it will increase the time you can ride at a given level of power. Thus a cyclist will be able to ride, for example, a time trial FASTER.


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## jorgy (Oct 21, 2005)

You're really splitting hairs, here. At this point it can ethically be listed on someone's cv under 'publications' without causing other folks to bat an eye.

Although I have to say I was surprised by the format of the pdf, not even a galley type proof.


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## _velodoc_ (Dec 26, 2007)

Cycling is dope!!!


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## serbski (Dec 2, 2002)

Dan Gerous said:


> Triki must think: "How am I supposed to keep up with guys 10 years younger than me?"


Unfortunately he was very likely doing this ten years ago. Well, at least nine years ago!


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## serbski (Dec 2, 2002)

fornaca68 said:


> It is a shame. Pozzato is a great racer who will be going back to Italy with the rest of the team tomorrow. So is Nibali and young Roman Kreuziger. So unfair to them.
> 
> No question now that Pozzato will leave Liquigas. They won't get a Tour invite next year, not with the Basso signinig + the Triki positive.



Not a shame. Look for some archival press regarding Pozzato's behavior towards Fillipo Simeoni during the TdF when LA chased him down in that ill-fated/infamous breakaway. Pozzato is as old school and dirty as they get and I find it sublime justice that one of his henchmen should bring down his whole TdF dream. Pozzato is no doubt quick and talented but in a very 90's kinda way...


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## FondriestFan (May 19, 2005)

Apparently, the ASO decided that having to spend the rest of the Tour with Liggett calling their team "Leaky gas" is sufficient punishment and decided not to kick them out.


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## Troy16 (Jan 2, 2003)

breakaway said:


> Then you need to do some research into what EPO (erythropoietin) really is.
> 
> EPO is not a muscle stimulant to enhance explosive power or speed as in say what an olympic weight lifter would need. EPO does not make one a faster pedaller. Ones 60 meter sprint is not going be to 'faster' if an extra unit of blood in taken prior to the race.
> EPO was mainly used for medical purposes for individuals that were anemic. But in the athletic arena having excessive blood in your system with its added erythrocyte production it can benefit one in endurance sports such as bike racing.
> It does not make you faster!



Stick to your strengths, cluelessness is your realm and comfort zone. 

Yep, I can sustain a given power for a longer period of time thanks to EPO and that does not make me faster from point A to point B?????????? LOL jeanyussssssssss


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## DrSmile (Jul 22, 2006)

Ask an anemic person how fast they can get up the stairs.


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## ogaz (May 21, 2007)

*Easily done by Triki....*



AJL said:


> I think he should be allowed to contine the race - wearing a clown suit


...if he still has some of his old Mapei gear stashed away. Oh, did I say "gear" and "stash"?


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## Raceoftruth (Oct 6, 2007)

FondriestFan said:


> Apparently, the ASO decided that having to spend the rest of the Tour with Liggett calling their team "Leaky gas" is sufficient punishment and decided not to kick them out.


How are you supposed to say it?


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## pianopiano (Jun 4, 2005)

Raceoftruth said:


> How are you supposed to say it?


Phonetically, it would be pronounced _Lick wigas_, (like liquid).


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## Susan Walker (Mar 21, 2008)

empty_set said:


> Really? A "Coupling" fan? I thought that was just me and my spouse!
> 
> "You could say you're undecided about spots."


"Ooooh, Jeffrey!"


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## RkFast (Dec 11, 2004)

Greggb said:


> Hmmm another one of Armstrongs faithful lieutenants caught doping. But Lance never doped. Yeah right, I have a bridge I'd like to sell too.


Thats right. A guy who raced with Lance years ago gets busted today....so Lance MUST be guilty.

Moron.


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## shades9323 (Apr 30, 2006)

I say let the team stay in the Tour. But I would advocate testing the rest of the team after every stage.


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## atpjunkie (Mar 23, 2002)

*you can also*



Troy16 said:


> Stick to your strengths, cluelessness is your realm and comfort zone.
> 
> Yep, I can sustain a given power for a longer period of time thanks to EPO and that does not make me faster from point A to point B?????????? LOL jeanyussssssssss


transfer more stress induced by-products out of your muscle tissue reducing fatigue and allowing your muscles to fire longer before hitting the wall
this also aids in recovery which means you can train harder with fewer rest days
and during a 3 week race, get less tired

read the Outside Magazine article about the rider/writer who went on a doping schedule so he could write first hand about it. He was impressed with the results of HGH and whatever steroid(s) he took, he was blown away by what EPO did for him

and yes folks, let's refrain from "guily by association'
a guy gets busted for doping on a team with some doping issues......
lets point the finger at the team he rode for 4 years ago

the only thing I am defending here is logic

Tricky is 37, 2 year ban = lifetime


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## 80z28s6 (Feb 10, 2005)

Any link to the outside mag article???


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## Susan Walker (Mar 21, 2008)

80z28s6 said:


> Any link to the outside mag article???


It's from November 2003: http://outside.away.com/outside/bodywork/200311/200311_drug_test_1.html


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## baker921 (Jul 20, 2007)

*But why aren't there any rules?*

Beltran's gone. Good but his team is still there and there's a lot of shilly shallying about what should happen to Liquigas in the press.
Surely this is a foreseeable occurrence where the rules could be clearly spelt out in advance. Its appalling that the ASO decides each case on some secret basis never quite expelling a team but choosing to apply pressure on them to leave or not based upon their own criteria of favourites. It stinks!
My opinion for what its worth is that this is a team sport and it is not possible to evaluate how big a contribution any dirty rider has made in a race. Therefore if a rider fails a test as a minimum the whole team should loose all points and stage wins up to that point and the remaining riders allowed to continue with the time of the lanterne rouge. It might seem harsh but the clean riders would be able to hold their heads up at the end of the race and say that any successes were theirs by right.


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## asgelle (Apr 21, 2003)

baker921 said:


> My opinion for what its worth is that this is a team sport and it is not possible to evaluate how big a contribution any dirty rider has made in a race.


A rider doesn't only help his own team mates but riders from other teams as well. All riders in a group with a banned rider should get the lantern rough time. Since the entire peloton rides together at mile 0, everyone goes back to equal time.


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## mohair_chair (Oct 3, 2002)

AJL said:


> I think he should be allowed to contine the race - wearing a clown suit


That Liquigas team kit is already pretty close to a clown suit. He just needs a big red nose and floppy shoes.


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## Marc (Jan 23, 2005)

mohair_chair said:


> That Liquigas team kit is already pretty close to a clown suit. He just needs a big red nose and floppy shoes.


Are rainbow colored wigs permissable under French Federation rules?


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## serbski (Dec 2, 2002)

RkFast said:


> Thats right. A guy who raced with Lance years ago gets busted today....so Lance MUST be guilty.
> 
> Moron.


No need for hostility kids. Have a look at some of the other posts regarding the number of Postal/Discovery riders who have gone on to get pinched for drugs and you may get a sense that these guys (either on USPS or on teams previously) came up during the mid-90's era during which doping was rampant to put it mildly. Look at the records of Mapei and Kelme, two teams which provided a number of Lance's TdF helpers as he hired guys who gave him a hard time in the mountains. It is rather naive to think that guys came from doping teams to Postal, quit doping, and actually rode *better* at Lance's side. Come on, Postal worked (and excelled) within the context of pro cycling in the era of doping. I think that people are not trying to crucify Postal/Armstrong as much as just asking that people accept what they have come to accept about most every other team over the years.


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## aliensporebomb (Jul 2, 2002)

*Maybe...*



Dan Gerous said:


> Triki must think: "How am I supposed to keep up with guys 10 years younger than me?"


But I also know guys who are older riders who are hard as nails and are smarter
and able to tolerate pain better, to a point.

37, older certainly. Not wiser, that's for sure.


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