# Athena or Ultegra



## Snpiperpilot (Feb 13, 2011)

My LBS has a bike that just came back in as a loaner while waiting for a custom build to be completed. The bike currently has Campy Athena on it and they'll give me a good price on that. Or, I can have them set it up the way I originally intended before this came up and install Shimano Ultegra. I'd end up paying a similar price either way. I've been riding a 105 and was looking to upgrade but the Athena also seem pretty nice.

Thoughts?


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## Bike Poor (Sep 17, 2009)

I almost went with an Athena build on my last build up, but the cost of 11 speed cassettes kept me from it.


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## ewitz (Sep 11, 2002)

PBK

Ultegra 1004
Athena 878

Not commenting on quality or preference only pointing out the dollar difference


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## Hank Stamper (Sep 9, 2009)

Take it for a test ride and compare the shifting technique to that which you already know with your 105.

Don't worry about functionality. they both do the same thing more or less. Just get the ergonomics and shifting technique you like.


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## terbennett (Apr 1, 2006)

Well, Athena is on par with 105- if it matters. That probably explains why it is cheaper.


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## kbwh (May 28, 2010)

Is the Athena ultra or powershift?


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## JCavilia (Sep 12, 2005)

*A matter of taste*

You should decide based on which shifting system you like. They both work fine, they're similar quality. But ergonomically they're different, and some people like one better than the other.


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## Snpiperpilot (Feb 13, 2011)

terbennett said:


> Well, Athena is on par with 105- if it matters. That probably explains why it is cheaper.


They're certainly not cheaper in the US where I am....


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## dcl10 (Jul 2, 2010)

Athena is on special offer right now for an extra 10% off so that makes a big difference. Regular price there is only a $30 difference. Depending on where you buy it's also is available with different options like carbon cranks and cassettes that can effect the price. Also if you ever intend on selling campy has better resale value. As for performance they are both excellent and weight about the same (with carbon crank option). So I think it should come down to what ergonomics you prefer.


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## strathconaman (Jul 3, 2003)

There are two practical reasons to go campy. 1. Do the shifters fit your hands? Some people really can't get the thumb button. 2. What other wheels do you have? If you have a whole bunch of shimano wheels, and no way of converting the hub bodies, going to Campy can get very expensive.


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## Snpiperpilot (Feb 13, 2011)

kbwh said:


> Is the Athena ultra or powershift?


What is the difference. I haven't seen anything that makes a distinction.



tebennett said:


> Well, Athena is on par with 105- if it matters


In looking at those two, Athana seems better. Is that statement based on some analysis or just your view? I understand that the comparison is not an easy thing to do.


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## malanb (Oct 26, 2009)

athena is on par with ultegra. had both groups more than once


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## malanb (Oct 26, 2009)

I would go with athena , dont know about the new power torque though. but I have a preference for campagnolo, in the last 6 years only had campgnolo groups


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## danl1 (Jul 23, 2005)

Generally speaking I'm a Campy fan, but I've not made the leap to 11-speed yet - and don't know if I will. Everyone has an opinion, but here's one from cyclingnews that gave me something to think about:



> here’s no getting around the fact that 11-speed is more finicky to precise adjustment than Campy’s previous 10-speed groups and much more testy than Shimano or SRAM’s offerings, with the latter seeming the most robust in our experience. After our experiences on the road — the group requires weekly fine-tuning and attention to stay in top working condition — we cannot recommend 11-speed for cyclo-cross. This is despite the benefits the lever’s shape and function would have off-road. Campy makes the Centaur and Veloce groups with the same lever shape in 10-speed, thus making them prime options for off-road use in the autumn.


http://www.cyclingnews.com/reviews/campagnolo-athena-groupset

I'd ask after SRAM options, too. Other than the enormous noise when dropping to the little ring, I really like the way they work.


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## durielk (Jan 8, 2011)

If you go campy, as stated above, Shimno wheels will not work as the hubs are different. Other than that I would go withever fits your hands and positions the best.


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## Snpiperpilot (Feb 13, 2011)

danl1 said:


> Generally speaking I'm a Campy fan, but I've not made the leap to 11-speed yet - and don't know if I will. Everyone has an opinion, but here's one from cyclingnews that gave me something to think about:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Thanks for the link. Good info. I considered SRAM but when I test rode a bike with that, I really disliked the way the shifters worked. I didn't ride it long enough to form an opinion on the noise issue. Still puzzled by the price differential in the US. Should be closer in price to the Ultegra line but the discount makes it not so. Weird.


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## JoelS (Aug 25, 2008)

That review is BS. I've got 11sp Chorus on 2 bikes and never have to fiddle with it. If it's set up right from the get go, it'll be fine.


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## Snpiperpilot (Feb 13, 2011)

JoelS said:


> That review is BS. I've got 11sp Chorus on 2 bikes and never have to fiddle with it. If it's set up right from the get go, it'll be fine.


So, you have the special never stretch shifter cables? ;-)

I have no idea is Athena or any campy is more adjustment prone than others but all need work from time to time or there would be no barrel adjusters. No?


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## kbwh (May 28, 2010)

*Ultrashift/Powershift*



Snpiperpilot said:


> What is the difference. I haven't seen anything that makes a distinction.


For 2011 only SR, Record and Chorus have Ultrashift, where you can upshift as many as 5 cogs with one throw of the thumb shifter. Athena, Centaur and Veloce (the two latter are 10 speed) have Powershift, which only allows single cog upshifts at the time, just like any offering from Shimano or SRAM.

2010 Athena had Ultrashift.


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## SystemShock (Jun 14, 2008)

terbennett said:


> Well, Athena is on par with 105- if it matters. That probably explains why it is cheaper.


Really? Athena seems significantly nicer-looking than 105. It's lighter too.

Ultegra seems a better match for Athena than 105 is.
.


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## Snpiperpilot (Feb 13, 2011)

kbwh said:


> For 2011 only SR, Record and Chorus have Ultrashift, where you can upshift as many as 5 cogs with one throw of the thumb shifter. Athena, Centaur and Veloce (the two latter are 10 speed) have Powershift, which only allows single cog upshifts at the time, just like any offering from Shimano or SRAM.
> 
> 2010 Athena had Ultrashift.


Weird that they would actually remove a feature. I'll have to see which version is on the bike when I go see it tomorrow and decide.


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## Mel Erickson (Feb 3, 2004)

Snpiperpilot said:


> So, you have the special never stretch shifter cables? ;-)
> 
> I have no idea is Athena or any campy is more adjustment prone than others but all need work from time to time or there would be no barrel adjusters. No?


Cables don't stretch, housing and ferrules seat. Once they're fully seated there should be no need for adjustments based on changes in cable length. Other things can happen that require adjustments. Of course, as brake pads wear they need adjustment.


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## martinrjensen (Sep 23, 2007)

I've had both Learn(did the majority of my riding on Shimano) and am running Campy on three of my bikes now. I think in the end, Campy levers design (shifting) makes more sense. I have the older levers that will shift about 5 gears at once though. I really like that function, plus shifting is more natural for me.


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## SystemShock (Jun 14, 2008)

Snpiperpilot said:


> Weird that they would actually remove a feature.


I think Campy really really _really_ wants ppl to buy Chorus or above.

Hopefully not because they're hurtin'. 
.


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## danl1 (Jul 23, 2005)

JoelS said:


> That review is BS. I've got 11sp Chorus on 2 bikes and never have to fiddle with it. If it's set up right from the get go, it'll be fine.


Well, your sample size and their's are both too small to form a solid answer. It could be that you got lucky, it could be that they had a bad build. 

Your's is believable in that Campy does good work. Theirs is believeable in that 11s is asking the most of tolerances, and small differences - ones that might be unavoidable in certain builds - could make big differences. 

So, I'd not be too quick to call their review BS unless you are willing to have yours painted with the same brush. Plus, they have the advantage of broader second-hand information than you do, so maybe....


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## terbennett (Apr 1, 2006)

Snpiperpilot said:


> What is the difference. I haven't seen anything that makes a distinction.
> 
> 
> 
> In looking at those two, Athana seems better. Is that statement based on some analysis or just your view? I understand that the comparison is not an easy thing to do.


No. That's based on what a Campy rep told me last year. Chorus is supposed to be on par with Ultegra and Record, Dura Ace. Remember, SRAM Rival is on par with 105 but many will say that it is better suited to compete with Ultegra due to it being lighter than 105. Weight seems to dictate a lot to many cyclists. Shimano usually does have the heavier groups by comparison, but that doesn't mean that they are any less capable... Usually it's quite the contrary. Even with the added weight, they tend to hold their own as equals (or sometimes better), when it comes to overall performance of their product.


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## terbennett (Apr 1, 2006)

Snpiperpilot said:


> They're certainly not cheaper in the US where I am....


I agree. I haven't seen them for that little anywhere here in California.


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## terbennett (Apr 1, 2006)

danl1 said:


> Well, your sample size and their's are both too small to form a solid answer. It could be that you got lucky, it could be that they had a bad build.
> 
> Your's is believable in that Campy does good work. Theirs is believeable in that 11s is asking the most of tolerances, and small differences - ones that might be unavoidable in certain builds - could make big differences.
> 
> So, I'd not be too quick to call their review BS unless you are willing to have yours painted with the same brush. Plus, they have the advantage of broader second-hand information than you do, so maybe....


My brother in law only uses Campy now because of there shifter design. He has three bikes with Record groups. His take is that Campy is finnicky compared to Shimano. However, when his groups are fine tuned, there's nothing out there that can come close. Go figure.


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## terbennett (Apr 1, 2006)

The perfect group in my opinion would have:
Campy design
Shimano reliability
SRAM weights


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## Snpiperpilot (Feb 13, 2011)

terbennett said:


> The perfect group in my opinion would have:
> Campy design
> Shimano reliability
> SRAM weights


There an old joke in there someplace but I think you have it right. Also, there is a price component to this equation that's hard to quantify direction. A price/perceived value equation where everyone's variables are different.

Price aside, I think your analysis is spot on.


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## scotty_b (Feb 16, 2011)

As shallow as it sounds, I would go for the one you like the look of most. Don't worry about ergonomics - you would quickly get used to all of them to the point where it is unlikely that you'd want to switch. At that pricepoint they will all be high quality and will all work superbly. The only other factor would be the extra gear that athena gives you - might come in handy when you venture into the hills.


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## Snpiperpilot (Feb 13, 2011)

scotty_b said:


> As shallow as it sounds, I would go for the one you like the look of most. Don't worry about ergonomics - you would quickly get used to all of them to the point where it is unlikely that you'd want to switch. At that pricepoint they will all be high quality and will all work superbly. The only other factor would be the extra gear that athena gives you - might come in handy when you venture into the hills.


Aside from tighter spacing making the "right" gear a bit easier, does 11 work any better?

FWIW, I ended up with the Athena and a compact front and 12-27 rear cluster to give me a bit more climbing than my current closer ratio 105.

Now, if the fraking weather would just allow me to get outside....:-(


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## kbwh (May 28, 2010)

Snpiperpilot said:


> There an old joke in there someplace but I think you have it right. Also, there is a price component to this equation that's hard to quantify direction. A price/perceived value equation where everyone's variables are different.
> 
> Price aside, I think your analysis is spot on.


The joke being that Shimano is the more reliable...


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## cs1 (Sep 16, 2003)

terbennett said:


> Well, Athena is on par with 105- if it matters. That probably explains why it is cheaper.


Athena is on par with Chorus which is far better than either 105 or Ultegra.


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## malanb (Oct 26, 2009)

Athena is almost better than ultegra IMO. chorus is indeed better than ultegra


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## cs1 (Sep 16, 2003)

malanb said:


> Athena is almost better than ultegra IMO. chorus is indeed better than ultegra


I second Chorus. It's a great group.


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## SystemShock (Jun 14, 2008)

terbennett said:


> No. That's based on what a Campy rep told me last year. Chorus is supposed to be on par with Ultegra and Record, Dura Ace. Remember, SRAM Rival is on par with 105 but many will say that it is better suited to compete with Ultegra due to it being lighter than 105. Weight seems to dictate a lot to many cyclists.


Thing is, if you're going by weight, then Athena is on par with Ultegra, and Chorus is pretty close to Dura Ace. 

I've never heard anyone else say that Athena was intended to compete with or be on par with 105. I just don't think many ppl see it that way.

Perhaps Centaur would be a better comparison to 105. They're both 10-spd, and with the alloy crankset option, Centaur is about the same weight as 105. 
.


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## terbennett (Apr 1, 2006)

SystemShock said:


> Thing is, if you're going by weight, then Athena is on par with Ultegra, and Chorus is pretty close to Dura Ace.
> 
> I've never heard anyone else say that Athena was intended to compete with or be on par with 105. I just don't think many ppl see it that way.
> 
> ...


I stand corrected. You are right. Centaur is on par with 105.


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## terbennett (Apr 1, 2006)

cs1 said:


> Athena is on par with Chorus which is far better than either 105 or Ultegra.


Chorus is on par with Record. They use the same shifters with different labels.


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## pmf (Feb 23, 2004)

Snpiperpilot said:


> There an old joke in there someplace but I think you have it right. Also, there is a price component to this equation that's hard to quantify direction. A price/perceived value equation where everyone's variables are different.
> 
> Price aside, I think your analysis is spot on.



The perfect war:
British officers
German soldiers
American equipment
The Italians for enemies

I recently built up a bike (a resprayed Eddy Merckx Corsa 01) and for the first time in my life, went with Campy. This is after decades of Dura Ace. I bought the 2010 Athena group with silver cranks. I've ridden it twice since building it up last weekend. The shifting is different -- I have to think, its not automatic -- and I wouldn't say its better or worse than Shimano. Personally, I liked the look of it and hated the ugly ass Shimano stuff (especially those cranks). I just couldn't see putting that stuff on a classis steel bike frame. The bike rides great, shifts nicely --- I'm happy so far. 

The down side was having to buy a Campy compatible wheelset when I've got spare Shimano compatible wheels laying around gathering dust. That's basically been my barrier for years. I'll need to buy a Campy cassette tool, but not a chain tool because they cost $200! Yep, the Park version costs even more. Guess its a trip to the LBS when I need a new chain.


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## PlatyPius (Feb 1, 2009)

pmf said:


> The perfect war:
> British officers
> German soldiers
> American equipment
> ...


KMC 11 speed chain with quick link. No need for chain pin peening tools.


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## Chris Keller (May 19, 2008)

I would stick with Campy Athena or move to Chorus if you have the means. Athena is terrific. I've been on Campy since 2001 and I haven't looked back.


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## pmf (Feb 23, 2004)

PlatyPius said:


> KMC 11 speed chain with quick link. No need for chain pin peening tools.


Thanks. I assume this is an after market 11-speed chain with a SRAM type link. How do you cut the chain to length? I have to say, its amazing how narrow that thing is.


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## SystemShock (Jun 14, 2008)

terbennett said:


> I stand corrected. You are right. Centaur is on par with 105.


You are not supposed to agree. You are supposed to stick to your guns and argue an iffy statement for 50 posts, like any true RBRer.  

What's wrong with you man? Don't you know that intelligence and reasonableness are not supposed to be on teh internets? 
.


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## PlatyPius (Feb 1, 2009)

pmf said:


> Thanks. I assume this is an after market 11-speed chain with a SRAM type link. How do you cut the chain to length? I have to say, its amazing how narrow that thing is.


The normal way. It's a normal chain otherwise. You only need the special tool (the Park one is about $50, by the way, and is ONLY a pin peening tool; not to be used for breaking chains) to peen the "special" joining pin that Campy uses with the 11 speed chains.


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## malanb (Oct 26, 2009)

Park tool pinning tool is cheap. 50 bucks. No 200. And. You can use a 10 speed chain to insert the pin.


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## redmasi (Jul 14, 2010)

If you're accustomed to shimano shifting, I'd recommend that you demo campy before buying it. 

I've been riding shimano for years, but just built up a new bike w/ chorus (without trying it first). My usual hand position is riding the hoods, and the position of the thumb shifter is really awkward to me. Gotta move my hand to downshift. It's also really awkward to downshift from the drops. My friends say I will eventually get used to it... even prefer it. But right now that's a stretch. Had I demo'd it first, I can't say that I would have selected it. Only time will tell if I made the right choice. 

Also, I used to buy gear (e.g., wheelsets) on deal sites like bonktown. These sites regularly offer shimano-compatible gear... very rarely anything campy-compatible. Good luck!


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## hawker12 (Oct 19, 2003)

I'm a guy with small hands. From what I've read here, it sounds like I would be better off trying to find a NOS 2010 10speed Athena group or a used one. I want to build my new Landshark with polished components but reach to the levers is important to me. And with the 2010 Athena group I also get the Ultra-shift feature...correct?

Currently using Ultegra but also have to use their lever shims to reduce the reach.


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## kbwh (May 28, 2010)

terbennett said:


> Chorus is on par with Record. They use the same shifters with different labels.


Not quite right. The Record brake levers have holes.



hawker12 said:


> with the 2010 Athena group I also get the Ultra-shift feature...correct?


 Yeah.


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## Dajianshan (Jul 15, 2007)

I had been using Ultegra for three years and thought I really liked it. I thought I liked shifting both ways from the levers on the grip. I thought I liked the easy, mechanical, nearly automatic shift from Shimano. I thought that. 

Then my frame developed a crack and my builder loaned me a spare bike with a strange Centaur/Record mix. 

At first I didn't like the paddles pushing back. I didn't like the thumb levers. It was a little awkward... for a day. 

Then I found myself looking down at my crank to make sure the chain had jumped to the big ring. It had. The shifts were clear and crisp. There was no lag. Even after six weeks of use the shifting was right on. The Ultegra would start getting fussy after two or three rides. Nothing sucks more than getting halfway up a 16% grade and slipping off the 27 tooth cog...again....and again...and again. 

I am also bad at math and lose myself in a ride, which means I forget which cog I'm on. With Campy, I could simply depress the paddle and get an instant tactile response for about how far up or down the cog I had traveled. 

From the hoods, my thumbs naturally found their mark on the shift levers. No more reaching down with my two middle fingers. From the drops, the levers were in a perfect place to simply pull down with my thumbs. This was especially evident from riding at the very bottom of the drops. 

Then I looked at the svelte appearance of the Campy group as opposed to the Ultegra, which is bulky... shifters capped with faux aluminum plastic that rubs and fades to a milky yellow. The new Ultegra looks like it came off a futuristic giant Japanese robot. 

I had become... a Campy man. 

My bike is...as I write this... getting built up with Chorus.... Despite the carbon fiber coating.


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## pmf (Feb 23, 2004)

hawker12 said:


> I'm a guy with small hands. From what I've read here, it sounds like I would be better off trying to find a NOS 2010 10speed Athena group or a used one. I want to build my new Landshark with polished components but reach to the levers is important to me. And with the 2010 Athena group I also get the Ultra-shift feature...correct?
> 
> Currently using Ultegra but also have to use their lever shims to reduce the reach.


I have the 2010 Athena group on a bike I recently built up. Its really nice looking stuff, but I sure wish they had the option for polished shifters. Instead, mine are aluminum shifters wrapped in carbon fiber looking wall paper. I don't even think its carbon. It's purely for looks. The 2010 Athena is ultra-shift. The 2011 Athena is not, but you can get polished shift levers. The polished levers look nicer, IMO. Is the ultra-shift really that great? For me, a long time Dura Ace rider, not really, but then again, I haven't gotten used to it yet. Sometimes I hit the right tab too hard and over shift the cassette and have to shift a gear or two back up. 

One thing that makes me curious is why they eliminated ultra-shift from the group. Is it possible that the 2010 shifters are essentially Chorus with a cheaper body and the 2011 shifters are essentially Centaur with some polish? If that's true, then getting the 2010 makes more sense, if you can find it.


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## hawker12 (Oct 19, 2003)

Dajianshan...you're killing my bank account with reviews like that.


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