# First wheelbuilding hub choice advice



## littlewing6283 (Sep 15, 2009)

Hello,

I want to try to build a wheel. Not because i'm trying to cut cost because I know it will cost me more but because I would like to know how to do it and know how to maintain my own wheels. 

I'm used to doing all the work myself. I work on my own cars and bicycles. 

Ive been reading Mike T's guide and purchased Mussons book. 

Weight is not really a concern since i'm just trying this out for the first time

Heres some ideas i'll likely go with.

32h frt and rear laced 3x

Rims im thinking velocity a23 or velocity dyad. 

Spokes plain gauge, whatever I can find thats cost effective

Brass nipples.

Heres where i'm kind of stuck. is the hub. I dont want to break the bank. I would like white industries hubs but theyre a little out of my budget for a first build. Can anyone reccomend another sealed cartridge hub I can get thats pretty cost effective. I dont want to go with 105. Any reccomendations that I can get for a reasonable price are worth it. Can I get anything in the 100-150 range ?


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## Mike T. (Feb 3, 2004)

Have you bought the rims yet? If not, consider 28/32 from Brandon at BikeHubStore.com - 

http://www.bikehubstore.com/SuperLight-Road-Hubs-28f-32-290-grams-p/fr2832silver.htm

They're sealed bearing and very cost effective.

He's nice enough to sponsor the hubs' Review section too -

http://www.roadbikereview.com/cat/wheels/hubs/PLS_2500crx.aspx

Why the plain gauge spokes? As it says on my page, only buy them if you need to save a few cents per spoke. Double butted make for a better wheel as the thin center section absorbs some shock that the bends will otherwise have to bear.


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## littlewing6283 (Sep 15, 2009)

Mike T. said:


> Have you bought the rims yet? If not, consider 28/32 from Brandon at BikeHubStore.com -
> 
> http://www.bikehubstore.com/SuperLight-Road-Hubs-28f-32-290-grams-p/fr2832silver.htm
> 
> ...


thanks for chiming in mike

I have not bought rims yet. I was going to buy everything slowly for the next two months or so. I'll take a look at the site you linked me too.

I will go with double butted then. I thought you meant the plain gauge was easier to build with.


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## littlewing6283 (Sep 15, 2009)

those hubs look really nice. thats the specific look I was going for. are they in the US Mike ? I have to find a source to buy spokes and nipples as wel


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## valleycyclist (Nov 1, 2009)

I agree with Mike T about using double butted spokes. Sapim Race or DT Competition spokes are two options.

For rims, DT Swiss RR465 rims are easier to build with than others. Since you are looking at wide rims you may also want to consider DT Swiss TK540 rims.

DT Swiss 350 hubs may be a good hub choice.


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## krisdrum (Oct 29, 2007)

littlewing6283 said:


> I have to find a source to buy spokes and nipples as wel


Consider going double-butted, not straight gauge.

I'd get my nips and spokes from Alchemy Wheelworks. Awesome folks and great customer service.


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## TomH (Oct 6, 2008)

danscomp.com for 40 cent sapim race spokes..


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## littlewing6283 (Sep 15, 2009)

valleycyclist said:


> I agree with Mike T about using double butted spokes. Sapim Race or DT Competition spokes are two options.
> 
> For rims, DT Swiss RR465 rims are easier to build with than others. Since you are looking at wide rims you may also want to consider DT Swiss TK540 rims.
> 
> DT Swiss 350 hubs may be a good hub choice.


Thanks for the tips. I'll look into those rim options Phillip. I gotta start locating some sources for some of these parts.

The HEDS are awesome btw ! took them out for 100 miles this weekend. Lots of climbing through wrightwood on saturday. Fast group ride on sunday ! They roll really nice and are stiff. Lots more confidence descending as well.


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## valleycyclist (Nov 1, 2009)

littlewing6283 said:


> Thanks for the tips. I'll look into those rim options Phillip. I gotta start locating some sources for some of these parts.
> 
> The HEDS are awesome btw ! took them out for 100 miles this weekend. Lots of climbing through wrightwood on saturday. Fast group ride on sunday ! They roll really nice and are stiff. Lots more confidence descending as well.


I'm glad you like your wheels and that you now have an interest in building your next set yourself.

Another good rim I forgot to mention earlier is the Velocity Synergy/Synergy OC.


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## Mike T. (Feb 3, 2004)

littlewing6283 said:


> I will go with double butted then. I thought you meant the plain gauge was easier to build with.


Oh sure plain gauge ARE easier to build with (too easy really as there is almost zero windup)
but I say on my site - "The ideal wheels for your first builds, taking everything into account, are (with)..........14/15gauge double butted spokes."

Trust me.....go with double butted.


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## Zen Cyclery (Mar 10, 2009)

krisdrum said:


> I'd get my nips and spokes from Alchemy Wheelworks. Awesome folks and great customer service.


X2 for Alchemy. You can get any amount of what you need as well.


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## Mike T. (Feb 3, 2004)

littlewing6283 said:


> are they in the US Mike ?


Chapel Hill NC.


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## littlewing6283 (Sep 15, 2009)

looks like im going double butted.

I'll try to get my spokes and nipples from alchemy. They dont carry velocity rims. They do have kinlin though


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## rustybucket (Mar 2, 2009)

I just finished building my 1st set of wheels after I was hit by a car and taco'd both wheels. 
I kept the hubs and replaced the rims and some spokes that had kinks in them.
It took a while to build them but that 1st ride with them was great, there is something rewarding about riding a bike with wheels you have built. They are rock solid and 
have stayed true after a few hundred miles. Mussons book is great, I built the truing stand using his design. Before embarking on building the wheels I thought there was some dark art to building wheels, not now. Just be paitent and take your time. Good luck with it.


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## littlewing6283 (Sep 15, 2009)

anyone think building a first buld with white industry hubs is a bad idea ?


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## Mike T. (Feb 3, 2004)

littlewing6283 said:


> anyone think building a first buld with white industry hubs is a bad idea ?


Actually it's a great idea. IMO they're probably (but arguably) the best hub out there - everything considered.


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## littlewing6283 (Sep 15, 2009)

Mike T. said:


> Actually it's a great idea. IMO they're probably (but arguably) the best hub out there - everything considered.


I was just worried because it's a more expensive hub and I didnt want to ruin it. Well Mike i've decided. I have white industries on my other wheels and I just love them. Thats why I wanted to do this build with white industires

Heres my proposed build

Velocity 32h frt and rear
White Industries hubs, 3x lacing frt and rear
Likely going with wheelsmith or Dt 14/15 double butted
brass nipples

I already have a spoke wrench , screw driver.

Just ordered a Park ts-2.2, spokey wrench
need to buy some linseed oil and permatex anti seize
also I am going to purchase a couple other tools. I know I dont need them but im a tool junky.


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## Mike T. (Feb 3, 2004)

littlewing6283 said:


> I was just worried because it's a more expensive hub and I didnt want to ruin it.


I can't imagine how you can ruin it. The hub is probably the least ruinable part of the build.



> I already have a spoke wrench , screw driver.


That's all ya need.



> need to buy some linseed oil and permatex anti seize


Ok now I'm asking a question - why both of those? They do opposite things.


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## littlewing6283 (Sep 15, 2009)

Mike T. said:


> I can't imagine how you can ruin it. The hub is probably the least ruinable part of the build.
> 
> 
> That's all ya need.
> ...


oh I thought I needed both. if I just need one I might go with anti seize. I was going to anti seize the thread and use oil for the rim etc.


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## TomH (Oct 6, 2008)

If anything, you'd want to do the opposite.That particular oil dries up and causes the spokes to stick. Its an oldschool threadlocking technique. 

You could use anti-seize for both, or grease, or a normal lubricating oil. I havent used it personally, but the linseed oil sounds like its messy.


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## littlewing6283 (Sep 15, 2009)

oh ok. anti seize it is then. thanks everyone


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## littlewing6283 (Sep 15, 2009)

also anyone have experience with the bikehubstore hubs ? 

thats also an option that would leave a lot of money in my wallet


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## TomH (Oct 6, 2008)

I think you'd be surprised just how good they really are. The rear hub geometry could be better, but as-is they're quite good. The bearings arent amazing, but they're high enough quality to be durable (the rear has a very high load capacity anyway). 

For 100 bucks they're just flat out amazing. In the scope of all the hubs available today, they fall about the middle in terms of features, and towards the high end in terms of weight.

*Im* concerned a bit about the front bearing size.. they're 699's, which is what more than a few ultra light hubs have used. Some other brands (american classic I think) have had long term durability issues.. but those bearings are so incredibly cheap to replace that its kinda a non issue even if they do go. 

They're bitex hubs, you can see all their testing and info at bitexhubs.com. Its actually cheaper to order them from someone like bikehubstore than it is to import a set yourself. 

I have a bunch of the newest bitex hubs coming within a few days  I dont think bike hub store has them.


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## littlewing6283 (Sep 15, 2009)

TomH said:


> I think you'd be surprised just how good they really are. The rear hub geometry could be better, but as-is they're quite good. The bearings arent amazing, but they're high enough quality to be durable (the rear has a very high load capacity anyway).
> 
> For 100 bucks they're just flat out amazing. In the scope of all the hubs available today, they fall about the middle in terms of features, and towards the high end in terms of weight.
> 
> ...


thanks tomh for the detailed info.

just to pick your brain a little more. I already have a set of wheels with white industries hubs. this set im trying to build will be on my training bike so im inclined to not be so spendy.

how do these compare to the white industries hubs ? I also have williams system 30's and a pair of bicycle wheel warehouse blackset. I assume these hubs will be similar to those ?

also when I do my spoke calculations if I go with the bikehubstore where can I get specs for it so I can input it into a calculator

thanks for all your help everyone


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## Mike T. (Feb 3, 2004)

littlewing6283 said:


> oh I thought I needed both. if I just need one I might go with anti seize. I was going to anti seize the thread and use oil for the rim etc.


You should do some reading. Linseed is for gumming up the threads to prevent nipples loosening. If you *need* stuff like that then you have problems with how you're building wheels. It's sufficient spoke tension that should prevent nipples from unscrewing, not some form or glue. I, and many others, use the finest thread lube out there - anti-seize. It's purpose-made for lubing threads. Anything else (oil, grease etc) is adapted from their original purpose. Oils on the threads are ok but IMO a/s is better. I use grease on nipple seats. Some people use oil. Whatever you use, use *something*.


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## Mike T. (Feb 3, 2004)

littlewing6283 said:


> also anyone have experience with the bikehubstore hubs ?
> thats also an option that would leave a lot of money in my wallet


Yes lots. BikeHubStore.com hubs, and most of the other Asian sourced hubs, are great value for the money - approximately 1/3rd to 1/4 as much as the top-end road hubs (King, WI, DT, DA etc) while giving up nothing in weight. Sure they're not in the same league as the top hubs but for most of us they're good enough. Plus you'd be surprised at how many of the respected factory pre-built wheelsets use Asian sourced hubs. 

BikeHubStore owner Brandon asked me to strip and report back on some of his hubs and I've done it so many times I can now strip one completely in about 30 seconds flat with no special tools (just common workshop tools). They're very simple inside but surprisingly well made. Their bearings are readily available and the seller stocks replaceable cassette carriers. 

I've been using BikeWheelWarehouse hubs for a couple of years which are also Asian sourced. They're not necessarily from the same sources at BHS hubs but they are all quite similar. They have been excellent in use with no issues.

I have King, WI, DA and DT around here (I either own them, have owned them and still mechanic them) and while they are the top hubs for very good reasons, the Asian sourced hubs are great value and quality for their cost.


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## Mike T. (Feb 3, 2004)

I'll give you my $0.10 on your questions.



littlewing6283 said:


> how do these compare to the white industries hubs?


The BikeHubStore hubs will be less money, probably lighter, just as easy to strip & service (but different), parts readily available, with an aluminum cassette carrier instead of the WI's titanium one. That's about it.



> I also have williams system 30's and a pair of bicycle wheel warehouse blackset. I assume these hubs will be similar to those?


Very.



> also when I do my spoke calculations if I go with the bikehubstore where can I get specs for it so I can input it into a calculator


Brandon (BHS's owner) can provide the factory engineering drawings which give all the hub dimensions even though I usually suggest people measure them themselves. I will add one more thing here though, Brandon does sponsor this site's hubs Review site  and offers support and credibility.


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## littlewing6283 (Sep 15, 2009)

thanks MikeT. your a lot of help int his wheel building thing im gonna try. anybody else have good luck with these hubs. looks like im going to pull the trigger on them versus WI when my ebay sales close.


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## Zen Cyclery (Mar 10, 2009)

@littlewing- Great choice in going with the White Ind. They have one of the best value to quality ratios that you can get in a high end hub today. Additionally they are very easy to service. Lastly, the people at White Industries are very friendly and consistently helpful which is worth supporting.


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## valleycyclist (Nov 1, 2009)

littlewing6283 said:


> thanks MikeT. your a lot of help int his wheel building thing im gonna try. anybody else have good luck with these hubs. looks like im going to pull the trigger on them versus WI when my ebay sales close.


I recently built a wheelset with Kinlin XR270 rims and Novatec hubs to get a feel for those hubs. They are definitely not of the same class as White Industries, but they feel fine when riding. FWIW the bearings inside the Novatec hubs are Japanese. My test build is 20f/24r with Sapim Laser spokes on the front and rear NDS and Wheelsmith DB-14 spokes on the rear DS, and it came in at 1456 grams. I weigh 150 lbs and with that build (laced 1x front, 2x rear) the wheels do not feel flexy to me.
https://s975.photobucket.com/albums/ae237/pweiss/Novatec_XR270/

White Industries hubs have really good flange geometry which will increase wheel stiffness over hubs with narrower flange spacing. They also have nice, oversized axles and a titanium freehub body. 

About using oil, linseed oil, or antiseize on the threads, it doesn't really matter as long as you don't lace them dry. I use linseed oil on my wheels since I have to use something and linseed oil works well. I have not had any issues of nipples siezing to the spokes. If you are using brass nipples, then there is less reason to use antiseize.


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## f3rg (May 11, 2008)

I recently got a set of 24/28 hubs from BikeHubStore. Haven't ridden them yet, but the finish is excellent, and the freewheel sound is nice.


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## littlewing6283 (Sep 15, 2009)

mine came in as well. rims will be here monday and I can start the build


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## Mike T. (Feb 3, 2004)

Congrats on the first wheels but what a pity you didn't spend a few more dollars on some fine Sapim Race from BHS.


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## Gravy (Jul 31, 2003)

Reviving an old thread, just finished my 1st wheel build with everything but the spokes coming form BHS. It was a awesome experience, learned a ton and hopefully I have a reliable set of wheels. The set is 24/28 2x on front 3x in back. BHS hubs, Kinlin 270 rims and Champion spokes( all the bike shop had) the set came out to 1550 grams and total cost less than $240.


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## Gravy (Jul 31, 2003)

Yeah second guessing myself on that, but I plan on building another lighter set wheel I loose a few more lbs. A quick question, I have read about the freewheel needs a little more grease on these hubs, how do I take it apart?
G


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## Mike T. (Feb 3, 2004)

Gravy said:


> I have read about the freewheel needs a little more grease on these hubs, how do I take it apart?


That's not always true but here's how to do it anyway. Your hubs could be one of two types. If the hubs are "loud" then they need more grease. If they are "quiet" then they have enough already -

Try sticking a 5mm allen wrench into each end of the axle. If they go in, use them to unlock the end caps. Remove the DS cap. Pull hard on the cassette carrier (the cassette can be on it or off it). The cassette carrier will pop right off, exposing the pawls and ratchety ring. Apply a thin grease very sparingly with a Q-tip or screwdriver tip. Replace the cassette carrier while rotating it counter-clockwise slightly (to help the pawls seat in the ring.

If the 5mm allen wrenches won't go into the axle hole, just pull strongly on the carrier (cassette on or off). If it won't come off, pry up on the end cap and remove it. O-ring friction holds it on. Then pull up on the carrier.

Lubing those pawls is a one minute job. Just go light on the grease.


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## cdhbrad (Feb 18, 2003)

"Just go light on the grease".......and use a very light grease. It doesn't take a heavy grease to quiet them down, if they come to you a little dry. Typical wheel bearing grease is probably too heavy. I use a white spray on grease I purchased at my LBS on these hubs.


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## Gravy (Jul 31, 2003)

Thanks guys, and Mike you have been a great source of information on this build, been lurking and taking note.
G


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## Mike T. (Feb 3, 2004)

cdhbrad said:


> "Just go light on the grease".......and use a very light grease. It doesn't take a heavy grease to quiet them down, if they come to you a little dry. Typical wheel bearing grease is probably too heavy. I use a white spray on grease I purchased at my LBS on these hubs.


I use DT-Swiss 240 ratchet grease just because I have some but otherwise I'd use any thin grease, or cut a tick one down with a couple of drops of oil.


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## giosblue (Aug 2, 2009)

I tried building my own wheels once. never again. Tried to do it by copying an existing wheel.
In the end I took the to my local LBS who is next to to my workplace. (handy)

I got both done for £30. I don't normally give up easy, but this was doing my bloody head in.


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## gregnash (Jun 30, 2011)

You will have to post up some pics of the build with the red hubs. Eventually I will do the same thing (XR270, Red BHS Hubs, Black Sapim Race [from DansComp], and Red Nipples). Build should run me about $260 and will be 32/32H 3x lacing as I am 187-190 out of the shower..


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## charlox5 (Jan 31, 2011)

I guess i'll post my question here:

Are wider front hubs worth the extra money? Looking at the BHS superlight 79's vs. brandon's new wide fronts. 

Thanks.


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## Gravy (Jul 31, 2003)

Here is a pic of mine grey BHS hubs w/ Silver 270's. Disregard all the crap behind the bike, needed to clean up it was a pic for the guy who made the stickers.
G


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## TomH (Oct 6, 2008)

charlox5 said:


> I guess i'll post my question here:
> 
> Are wider front hubs worth the extra money? Looking at the BHS superlight 79's vs. brandon's new wide fronts.
> 
> Thanks.


I just built a 20h heads in xr300 with a hub thats quite narrow. A tad narrower than the normal width superlight BHS hubs. Its *stiff*. So stiff it was hard to stress relieve. I have a 24h heads out xr300 on my bike, and its pretty stiff too (not as stiff as the 20h though). 

I think it depends on the rim. If you're using a notoriously flexy rim, you probably want the widest hub possible to compensate. If you're already using a very stiff rim, it might not be worth the extra cost.


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## odyssey12305 (May 17, 2012)

Newbee here......so for rims with 24 holes (Rear), since the DS and NDS have different spoke lengths, do you get 12 spokes each or 16:8? Should the Drive side have 16 or 8? Thanks


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## danl1 (Jul 23, 2005)

odyssey12305 said:


> Newbee here......so for rims with 24 holes (Rear), since the DS and NDS have different spoke lengths, do you get 12 spokes each or 16:8? Should the Drive side have 16 or 8? Thanks


16:8 lacing patterns take hubs that are specifically drilled that way. 12/12 is far more common.


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