# File treads... really an advantage over an all-purpose pattern?



## krisdrum (Oct 29, 2007)

So I've been wondering this for awhile and it is particularly poignant, as I am debating selling a set of Grifo XS I picked up on the 'Bay. I have 2 sets of Grifos and a set of Vittoria XM. Nittany Cross was pretty dry and firm and even under those conditions could feel my Grifos wanting to slide out on me in a few spots.

Where do file treads really shine and make a noticeable performance improvement over something like a Grifo?


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## zank (Aug 4, 2005)

It's probably all in my head. But when I put on the SSC Sprints and go ripping around on grass and hardpack, the bike just feels livelier. And all-in-my-head is all I need. Seriously though, they do roll better and it's noticable. Whether that makes it worth having a set glued up is another matter. I'd suggest seeing if a pal will let you try them on your bike.


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## the mayor (Jul 8, 2004)

There you have it.
The actual advantage to file treads is in Zank's head.
And if you've ever seen one of his 2 wheel creations.....that is not a bad place.


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## one_speed (Jun 30, 2003)

I have a couple friends that swear by their Grifo XS tubies (34mm, I think). Like Zank, I have the FMB version and really like them as well. I have use the Grifo XS clincher on the rear and it works great.

I would say they're not a necessity, but nice to have if you have the extra wheels available.


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## KMan (Feb 3, 2004)

*Nittany*

I race the Grifo XS tubies at Nittany....1st time I've ever used or raced file treads and I had Zero problems with traction. I only did one warmup lap and right away noticed that if I used too much rear brake heading into a corner, that is when they started to loose some traction ond would start to slide. During the race I just made sure to grab a little more front and less rear into the corners and that solved the problem. Granted, I only race Masters B class so I'm not hitting warp speeds like some of the faster classes. That being said, I plan on running file treads at Charm City and Whirly Bird unless the grass is wet. I'm the Henry's Rider










Michael






krisdrum said:


> So I've been wondering this for awhile and it is particularly poignant, as I am debating selling a set of Grifo XS I picked up on the 'Bay. I have 2 sets of Grifos and a set of Vittoria XM. Nittany Cross was pretty dry and firm and even under those conditions could feel my Grifos wanting to slide out on me in a few spots.
> 
> Where do file treads really shine and make a noticeable performance improvement over something like a Grifo?


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## OnTheRivet (Sep 3, 2004)

zank said:


> It's probably all in my head. But when I put on the SSC Sprints and go ripping around on grass and hardpack, the bike just feels livelier. And all-in-my-head is all I need. Seriously though, they do roll better and it's noticable. Whether that makes it worth having a set glued up is another matter. I'd suggest seeing if a pal will let you try them on your bike.


I just wish somebody would do a file with some actual knobs on the side so you can still turn in dirt...something like the old Michelin Sprints.


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## zank (Aug 4, 2005)

I agree. That's what I don't get about the Pipistrello. There's no knob at all. Those Sprints were great tires. The SSC Sprint is about the closest you'll get to a file tread with real side knobs.


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## Vegancx (Jan 22, 2004)

I think it's generally a waste of a tubie wheelset to glue up file treads. I have an old pair of Sprints I keep handy if there's really a hardpack or pavement intensive course. In almost a decade of racing, I think I've used them 2-3x. 

Some folks swear by them. I think if I'm hitting the corners hard and fast enough, I want as much grip as possible, even if I give up a little all-out speed.


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## roseyscot (Jan 30, 2005)

Vegancx said:


> I think it's generally a waste of a tubie wheelset to glue up file treads. I have an old pair of Sprints I keep handy if there's really a hardpack or pavement intensive course. In almost a decade of racing, I think I've used them 2-3x.
> 
> Some folks swear by them. I think if I'm hitting the corners hard and fast enough, I want as much grip as possible, even if I give up a little all-out speed.


file treads are definitely not a waste of a tubie wheelset in new england (where you tend to race on occasion, no?). last season i had a set of fangos and a set of grifo xs. i rode the grifo xs as often as i did the fangos. i missed the only muddy weekend (Maine). the file treads are absolutely, without a doubt, faster than the fango with no sacrifice when you know how to corner ATMA.

this season, i'm adding a third tubular wheelset and will likely have the fangos, fmb sprints, and fmb ssc (i think). if conditions are muddy i'll use michelin mud clinchers and the fmb ssc.

unless you live in an area where bad conditions are more common than good ones, i'd recommend an all around tire like the grifo, fango, ssc, and then a file tread tubular. you'd be surprised how well you can go on those smooth tires. hell, look at some of the tires mtb guys ride these days.


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## krisdrum (Oct 29, 2007)

Thanks for all the great input.

Zank it was that gorgeous blue creature in the rig thread that motivated me to finally ask the question. Talk about bike lust. 

So, since most agree it is a viable tread choice for specific conditions, can we briefly talk about the tubbie vs. clincher pros/cons in using this tread?

Since I would probably only use them a few times, not blocking off a set of tubbies for them would be a nice option. I'd rather have my tubbies be as versatile as possible, since I can't afford pairs and pairs of them. Since they are for dry/hardpack, would running them at slightly higher psi and in a clincher version be just as effective?

I bottomed out once or twice per lap at Nittany and I was running my Grifo 34s at about 25-28 psi. I'm about 175. I had no issues running clinchers at around 30 last year.


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## one_speed (Jun 30, 2003)

My first thought is to get the most out of file treads, a 34mm is really the way to go, which is only avail in a tubular. However, I have had good success running a latex tube with clinchers. No, not the same as a tubular set-up, but it works pretty well, falls between a butyl tube and tubular with regards to feel. I have run the Grifo XS clincher with latex tubes as a rear and it's been just fine. 

For my set up, I'll have a set of the FMB Sprints and another of FMB SSCs, which should cover me for everything. Can always run muds as clinchers if needed.


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## krisdrum (Oct 29, 2007)

Now I was thinking of going the other way. A set of Grifo tubs, a set of mud tubs (Vittoria XM), possibly a spare set of Grifo tubs, and then maybe doing a file tread clincher.

Now it seems like at least a few of you are running your mud tires clincher and opting to stick with an all-arounder and file tread as your tub set-up. 

My thought around making the mud a tub set-up was that the low psi possibility of a tub would be better served in the mud than in the dry/hardpack conditions.

Am I just totally off base?


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## auk (Mar 4, 2008)

I've also used the XS's on hard packed mud, the type that has a higher clay content. Or when it is very close to being dry and is super tacky. They are absolutely faster rolling than the regular treads and there is no loss of traction.


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## cx_fan (Jul 30, 2004)

OnTheRivet said:


> I just wish somebody would do a file with some actual knobs on the side so you can still turn in dirt...something like the old Michelin Sprints.


I have also been searching for the older Sprint tires but have found that the new Clement LAS tire is probably the closest to them. They are available in both black and while.

I have a set of Grifo XS and they are nice but trying to corner on them at speed has a bit up a pucker factor that I dont need in a race. Hope to have pair shorty. Only issue, they are clincher only at this time.


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## euro-trash (May 1, 2004)

krisdrum said:


> Since they are for dry/hardpack, would running them at slightly higher psi and in a clincher version be just as effective?


No, since it's bumpy, it's even more vital to have low pressure, making the tubular worthwhile. 

My comment here is a bit of a repeat of a couple of weeks ago in the which Challenge thread. With file treads, it's important that they are wide, have a supple casing, and have a big side knob--only when all those criteria met are they useful. The only tire that meets those criteria right now is the FMB. Those that have them in a 34 find them useful in a broad array of conditions, while those using the Challenge 32 aren't quite as enamored.


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## Vegancx (Jan 22, 2004)

roseyscot said:


> file treads are definitely not a waste of a tubie wheelset in new england (where you tend to race on occasion, no?). last season i had a set of fangos and a set of grifo xs. i rode the grifo xs as often as i did the fangos. i missed the only muddy weekend (Maine). the file treads are absolutely, without a doubt, faster than the fango with no sacrifice when you know how to corner ATMA.
> 
> this season, i'm adding a third tubular wheelset and will likely have the fangos, fmb sprints, and fmb ssc (i think). if conditions are muddy i'll use michelin mud clinchers and the fmb ssc.
> 
> unless you live in an area where bad conditions are more common than good ones, i'd recommend an all around tire like the grifo, fango, ssc, and then a file tread tubular. you'd be surprised how well you can go on those smooth tires. hell, look at some of the tires mtb guys ride these days.



All good points. I'm glad you've found file treads useful. I'm also running two bikes with only a finite number of tubular wheelset at my disposal, so I'd rather have all-around tread (Grifos) on both bikes than different tires on each bike. 

Not a bad tread to have in your arsenal, just not for me.


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## krisdrum (Oct 29, 2007)

euro-trash said:


> No, since it's bumpy, it's even more vital to have low pressure, making the tubular worthwhile.
> 
> My comment here is a bit of a repeat of a couple of weeks ago in the which Challenge thread. With file treads, it's important that they are wide, have a supple casing, and have a big side knob--only when all those criteria met are they useful. The only tire that meets those criteria right now is the FMB. Those that have them in a 34 find them useful in a broad array of conditions, while those using the Challenge 32 aren't quite as enamored.


Great insight and feedback. Thanks. I only followed the Challenge thread for a bit, so might have missed your breakdown of the criteria there. I think the set of XS I have will be hitting the auction block.


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## cmdrpiffle (Mar 28, 2006)

Vittoria makes a file thread with knobs on the sides only for cornering. They are on my bike right now. I'm too lazy to go look at the model. 

It's Vittoria XCM xcr lmnop abc evo EvM or something like that. I really haven't had my coffee this morning. I'll look later.


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## Unoveloce (Apr 13, 2005)

I've had great success with file treads. The casing has as much to do with traction as the tread. The old Pipistrellos were great for that. The new ones are a European elite level tire where having chunky side knobs will hook on the sides of deep ruts on the sandy courses. 

I'd like to have a set of the FMB's. They loom great and are way more durable than the dugasts. 

While the conditions that work best for file treads are traditionally dry grass/dirt with pavement, they do work well on ice and I've even used them on courses with lots of heavy sticky clay based mud that packs up on anything resembling a knob. All tires suck in that stuff. The file treads at least wouldn't load up and I could still roll. Other people with knobs were running half a lap per lap because their wheels would jam up and stop rolling.


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## OnTheRivet (Sep 3, 2004)

cx_fan said:


> I have also been searching for the older Sprint tires but have found that the new Clement LAS tire is probably the closest to them. They are available in both black and while.
> 
> I have a set of Grifo XS and they are nice but trying to corner on them at speed has a bit up a pucker factor that I dont need in a race. Hope to have pair shorty. Only issue, they are clincher only at this time.


Oh...I like that.


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## Unoveloce (Apr 13, 2005)

I've had great success with file treads. The casing has as much to do with traction as the tread. The old Pipistrellos were great for that. The new ones are a European elite level tire where having chunky side knobs will hook on the sides of deep ruts on the sandy courses. 

I'd like to have a set of the FMB's. They loom great and are way more durable than the dugasts. 

While the conditions that work best for file treads are traditionally dry grass/dirt with pavement, they do work well on ice and I've even used them on courses with lots of heavy sticky clay based mud that packs up on anything resembling a knob. All tires suck in that stuff. The file treads at least wouldn't load up and I could still roll. Other people with knobs were running half a lap per lap because their wheels would jam up and stop rolling.


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## artnshel (Jun 29, 2004)

I'm planing to run an FMB 34 Sprint file rear for anything but mud or thorns this year. With a little technique I think file treads are fine for rear tires. They can be a challenge for braking but this is cross. 
I should try a file front to see if I can be confident it, however at this point I'm not planning on having a front file tread, I like knobs on my front tire because cornering is a big part of the fun of cross for me and the faster I can corner the happier I am.
So my plan is low rolling resistance in the back where 60+% of your weight is and lots of grip in the front where it counts for me.


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## Kram (Jan 28, 2004)

http://www.probikekit.com/iframe.php?code=Y0084 That's what I'm looking at.


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## matthewtucker (Aug 7, 2007)

I ran FMB Sprints at Charm City this weekend and they were great. I had to switch to the pit bike in one race with FMB Grippos and the file tread rolls much faster and I did not feel any benefit cornering with the Grippo tread on the dry course conditions. 

This was my first time running files and I am a convert. I'll run them whenever I feel it is dry enough to do. The FMB Sprints have a nice side knob that do hook up. I ran around 28 pounds of pressure and I'm 160 lbs.


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## bartman601 (Nov 1, 2005)

I picked up a new set of Dugast Pipistrello's last yr at a swap meet. I gotta say those are the fastest semi dry grass tires I've tried so far and the ride is incredibly smooth. I had no issues with off camber or tight turns since there's no side knobs, once I got the psi dialed. No use for anything wet but it's usually dry in Central Tx.


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## KMan (Feb 3, 2004)

*update*

I used my Grifo XS tubies at Charm City as well. I did a few warmup laps and had some sliding issues in a few of the grass turns. Decided to lower my pressure a bit and that helped a lot (I weigh 180 lbs and ran 30f/32r). During the race I didn't slide once although I do still pay very close atttention into the corners. I think after a few more races and I get the tire pressure dialed in a bit more I'm hoping that a can get a bit more agressive into the corners. Again I'm only a Masters B racer, I could see how some of the faster guys who can really hammer into corners may not want to use file treads.

Michael





matthewtucker said:


> I ran FMB Sprints at Charm City this weekend and they were great. I had to switch to the pit bike in one race with FMB Grippos and the file tread rolls much faster and I did not feel any benefit cornering with the Grippo tread on the dry course conditions.
> 
> This was my first time running files and I am a convert. I'll run them whenever I feel it is dry enough to do. The FMB Sprints have a nice side knob that do hook up. I ran around 28 pounds of pressure and I'm 160 lbs.


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## KMan (Feb 3, 2004)

*update*

I used my Grifo XS tubies at Charm City as well. I did a few warmup laps and had some sliding issues in a few of the grass turns. Decided to lower my pressure a bit and that helped a lot (I weigh 180 lbs and ran 30f/32r). During the race I didn't slide once although I do still pay very close atttention into the corners. I think after a few more races and I get the tire pressure dialed in a bit more I'm hoping that a can get a bit more agressive into the corners. Again I'm only a Masters B racer, I could see how some of the faster guys who can really hammer into corners may not want to use file treads.

Michael





matthewtucker said:


> I ran FMB Sprints at Charm City this weekend and they were great. I had to switch to the pit bike in one race with FMB Grippos and the file tread rolls much faster and I did not feel any benefit cornering with the Grippo tread on the dry course conditions.
> 
> This was my first time running files and I am a convert. I'll run them whenever I feel it is dry enough to do. The FMB Sprints have a nice side knob that do hook up. I ran around 28 pounds of pressure and I'm 160 lbs.


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