# Carbon Wheels For Everyday Use



## Mar001 (Sep 24, 2006)

I have not tried carbon wheels for every day use, but am thinking about it because these wheels are strong, fast and light and are not much more expensive now than better aluminium wheels. I read of all sorts of early failures with the best light weight aluminium aeros, such as cracking and spokes breaking in Mavics and spoke holes failing, for no apparant reason, so these do not appear to stand up to training routines. Now only race specials. Perhaps we are now better on carbon?

Any thoughts on this from those that have, er, ridden this path before me? Do the carbon wheels stand up to careful everyday cycling? I am thinking the heavier (of them), but still very light, carbon wheels might stand up very well?

I currently ride tubulars everyday, training and racing and have done for many years. I would use tubilars on the carbon wheels. I do not experience any of the often stated problems with them because I have learn't how to handle them. The perceived down side with tubular tyres then is not part of the reasoning for me with the carbon wheels, it is the wheel itself I am interested in.

I would be very intersted to hear from those with experience with these things.

Regards!


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## JimP (Dec 18, 2001)

I too may be in the minority but I have ridden my Nimble Crosswinds for 8 years, over 20,000 miles, without any problems.


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## Mar001 (Sep 24, 2006)

*Carbon Wheels and High Mileage*

Hey Thanks Jim

I appreciate your feedback here, it gives me perspective. I reckon there could be merit in this idea as carbon composites are at least 5 times stronger than the best high tensile aluminiums. As the aluminium wheels get lighter and approach carbon weights, lots of failures are resulting, which is to expected. I am thinking, good aluminium wheels have become expensive and good cheap carbon wheels have become cheap, especially the imported stuff, so why not ride on carbons?

Thanks for the info.

Mar001


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## SilasCL (Jun 14, 2004)

Mar001 said:


> Hey Thanks Jim
> 
> I appreciate your feedback here, it gives me perspective. I reckon there could be merit in this idea as carbon composites are at least 5 times stronger than the best high tensile aluminiums. As the aluminium wheels get lighter and approach carbon weights, lots of failures are resulting, which is to expected. I am thinking, good aluminium wheels have become expensive and good cheap carbon wheels have become cheap, especially the imported stuff, so why not ride on carbons?
> 
> ...


I have yet to see any carbon wheels that are 'cheap' unless you're comparing them to really top of the line aluminum wheels.

Why not go buy a set of handbuilts, mavic open pro or a slightly more aero rim with your favorite spokes and hubs. Shouldn't cost you more than $400 and they will last a long time.

Silas


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## Mar001 (Sep 24, 2006)

Thanks Silas

Well that's the point, perhaps I should have put this in further perspective. We have always ridden on good aluminium wheels. Years ago it was Fiamme Hard Silver's, at around 350gms a rim, aero spokes and Campag hubs. Beautiful stuff in the 80's and still light fast training wheels even now. These days it is Mavic Ksyrium's, Fulcrum Racing's or similar as these wheels are current equivalents of the old Fiamme's, which is where we like to be.

The Fiamme's are the bench mark that we compare all latest aluminiums against and if the new stuff is much heavier or not to the level of quality or both then we move on.

The new alumiunium wheels are deep dish and to make them light enough requires thinner sections from harder metals, but the down side is early failures. The old Fiamme's are over 20 years old with countless miles and still perfect. I have replaced a couple of rims through damage which was my own fault.

A pair of Mavic Ksyrium's are only a $150.00 cheaper or so than say FSA RD 800's and at the same weight should out last the Mavic Ksyrium's by many years. The carbons will also be much much stiffer and stronger, in theory. 

But reliability is what I am trying to establish.

Any further suggestions?

Mar001


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## alienator (Jun 11, 2004)

I normally ride my Reynolds Stratus DV's everyday. Right now, they're off the bike because the monsoon left all sorts of tire killing crap on the road, but in another week, the roads will be better....and then the Reynolds will go back on.

Plenty of people are also riding Zipp 303's and 404's daily. A friend is riding Lightweight Standards everyday, as is his boss.

Good luck, though, fining a cheap carbon wheelset. There are some that are cheaper than others, but they're still not cheap.


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## Mar001 (Sep 24, 2006)

Thanks Alienator

That is exactly what I was looking for. It appears the Nimbles, the Reynolds and Zipps can be used every day so why not the slightly heavier ones. It makes sense too as, as written, carbon is soooo much stronger and stiffer, for the same given weight.

A very quick, cursory search of Ksyrium SL's and FSA rd 800's shows a price difference of only $230.00 and one could probably do better again with some digging. My estimation of $150.00 might be a bit optimistic but you get the picture.

The web links to Froogle are here:

http://froogle.google.com/froogle?q=mavic+ksyrium+sl&btnG=Search


http://froogle.google.com/froogle?q=fsa+rd+800+carbon+wheels&btnG=Search

$230.00 is a small price to pay for a product that will not self-destruct because the other is too brittle, thin, weak and marginal on the tolerances in order to be competitively light.

As an aside those old Hard Silver Fiamme's in 28 spoke are 1640gms. Who said old was obsolete? Fiamme also made some of the finest and lightest first aero’s before they went belly-up.

Mar001.


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## JimP (Dec 18, 2001)

Silas,

I got tired of breaking spokes and having to buy new wheels every 2 or 3 years. I paid $1,300 for the Nimbles and figure they are a lot more cost effective than what the 3 sets of cheap wheels would have cost in the 8 year period.


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## omniviper (Sep 18, 2004)

do cheap and carbon ever come in the same package?


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## fredf (Aug 13, 2004)

*Alienator*

By saying that you removed your carbons becaue the roads have debris, you are saying that you don't feel the carbons are as 'tough' as aluminum.
Which means you consider Reynolds Stratus (and by implication Zipp 303--which is what I am interested in) really 'every day' tires except when that day is a smoother ride.

I took a road vacation on my Bontrager Race Lites a couple of momths ago and some of it was along gravel roads. The Race Lites survived admirably. I would love to do the same trip with Zipp 303 clinchers but am wondering whether they would stand up to it.

Right now I only own the Race Lites but have been looking at a set of 'better' wheels as a treat (and I don't want to have to switch wheelsets). I prefer Clincher just for the convenience and the Zipps seem the only clincher carbons around. 

Does any of this make sense?
Fred


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## FTF (Aug 5, 2003)

fredf said:


> By saying that you removed your carbons becaue the roads have debris, you are saying that you don't feel the carbons are as 'tough' as aluminum.
> Which means you consider Reynolds Stratus (and by implication Zipp 303--which is what I am interested in) really 'every day' tires except when that day is a smoother ride.
> 
> I took a road vacation on my Bontrager Race Lites a couple of momths ago and some of it was along gravel roads. The Race Lites survived admirably. I would love to do the same trip with Zipp 303 clinchers but am wondering whether they would stand up to it.
> ...


Reynolds makes a carbon clincher. Zipps clincher is just a al rim glued to a structural carbon peice. Wheels like these in a clincher version is like a 4 speed automatic in a Mclearan f1. 

As for aliennators comments, it sounds to me like he does not consider them everyday wheels, because he isn't riding them, everyday. I don't consider what the roads look like when I am riding my everyday wheels. 

I find the whole carbon wheels everyday wheels, quite silly, but do whatever you want. I'm sure tons of people will say, well I ride them "everyday" (but not on days when the roads aren't perfect!) and don't have a problem, yeah well people drive their ferrari "everyday" as well, it dosen't mean that it's a good idea. Riding these things for just riding around, is just useless bling.


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## danl1 (Jul 23, 2005)

You might be making some unfair comps. You use FSA's in your comps for price, but seem to be jumping to the generic "carbon" when talking about the other attributes of weight, longevity, etc. Not a criticism, but a logic trap to look out for. I'm not sure I'd consider the FSA's as any more trustworthy than the Mavics. The higher-end carbon hoops negate the 'close price' part of the discussion.

And Mavic's aren't all that bad. Yeah, they've had some bad history, but an awful lot of that is because they are on so many bikes, and therefore under so many morons. If ridden as carefully as you will your carbons, there's no reason to fear them. I've seen several sets doing some heavy lifting for lots of miles.

Braking wear and performance is the biggest negative on daily carbon use, practically speaking. Cost to repair is probably higher, as more of the cost is in the rim.

But life is short. If you want carbon for everyday use, the sense of it doesn't matter. Go for it!


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## jimcav (Jun 15, 2003)

*how about the current spinergy stealth-is that cheap carbon*

they seem very affordable for carbon. I almost bought xxx-lites but decided I was not ready to commit to tubular. i am still researching aero wheels and a quick internet search showed gottaridebikes has spinergy stealth for about 750 and then has a 15% off coupon.

anyway, now i am trying to decide to stick with clinchers (what i always have ridden) or try tubular. for me, if i ride them every day, i will go clincher--no learning curve there. if i decide to get them fro seasonal events (hill climbs for me( then I may try tubular)
appreciate info--not answering your question sorry
jim


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## fredf (Aug 13, 2004)

"Reynolds makes a carbon clincher. Zipps clincher is just a al rim glued to a structural carbon peice."

And what is so bad about that? I'm happy to stay with an alloy braking surface...from what I understand it is much better braking, particularly in the wet. So what if Zipp glues on an Aluminum piece?

Which Reynolds wheel are you talking about? How would it compare to the Zipp in quality..ie: durability and ride in an urban area?

thanks


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## Cruzer2424 (Feb 8, 2005)

edit: whoops. misread the post I hit reply to.


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## FTF (Aug 5, 2003)

"Reynolds makes a carbon clincher. Zipps clincher is just a al rim glued to a structural carbon peice."

And what is so bad about that? I'm happy to stay with an alloy braking surface...from what I understand it is much better braking, particularly in the wet. So what if Zipp glues on an Aluminum piece?[/quote]

I didn't say there was anything _wrong _with it, it was just a statement of fact. Personally, I think zipp wheels are the suck, but thats just my opinon, they seem to fail a lot, spokes pulling through the rim, the rim just exploding, etc. I can find lots of pictures for you. Zipp is comming out with this new program where you'll beable to choose from 3 different rims, eg trade of weight for strenght, so maybe that will help. Also I've seen the AL rim become seperated from the carbon peice, but carbon clinchers have their own issues, more on that in a moment. 



fredf said:


> Which Reynolds wheel are you talking about? How would it compare to the Zipp in quality..ie: durability and ride in an urban area?


https://www.reynoldscycling.com/products_wheels_dv46c.html

https://www.reynoldscycling.com/products_wheels_mv32c.html

https://www.reynoldscycling.com/products_wheels_topoc.html

https://www.reynoldscycling.com/products_wheels_attack.html

All of these wheels are carbon clinchers. I was thinking of the first one, it's the deepest of them all, the second one is the Medium Vee, third some new wheel fourth is their budget carbon clincher they are comming out with. 

I have the tubular version of the first one, well they are a couple of years old now, but anyways, same rim I believe as the current tub one, just new hub, DT swiss hub, so really good. 

Anyways, I think that tubular to tubular wise, Reynolds kills zipp in the durability, it's no contest, reynolds wheels are stiffer, mostly because of the high spoke tension that reynolds uses, because their rim isn't made out of tissue paper. 

But there are large drawbacks when getting the clincher version, which IMHO, is a huge waste of money anyways, but people want them so reynolds is happy to take their money. For starters, on very long descents with people that love to use the old brakes, the brake track can deform, from the high heat. You can only pump them up to like 110-120, WHICH really you shouldn't be doing higher than that anyways, but yeah. 

Reynolds aren't quite as aero as Zipps, but that probably dosen't matter. There is also the Corima Aero rim that you might want to look in to. You can get it as a rim only, or a complete wheel.


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## alienator (Jun 11, 2004)

fredf said:


> By saying that you removed your carbons becaue the roads have debris, you are saying that you don't feel the carbons are as 'tough' as aluminum.
> Which means you consider Reynolds Stratus (and by implication Zipp 303--which is what I am interested in) really 'every day' tires except when that day is a smoother ride.
> 
> I took a road vacation on my Bontrager Race Lites a couple of momths ago and some of it was along gravel roads. The Race Lites survived admirably. I would love to do the same trip with Zipp 303 clinchers but am wondering whether they would stand up to it.
> ...



The comment has nothing to do with the effect of road debris on the rim. It has everything to do with flat frequency. I went through a 2 week period where I flatted 9 or 10 times in 2 weeks, so I decided to take the tubulars off until the roads were more clean. FWIW, most of the flats were on clinchers, but given the amount of free time I have--i.e. not much--it's quicker to patch an inner tube than it is to open, patch, and sew shut a tubular. When I had 4 tubulars in need of repair, I just made the decision to take the tubular wheels off until the roads were cleared of all the flat making trash.


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## alienator (Jun 11, 2004)

FTF said:


> As for aliennators comments, it sounds to me like he does not consider them everyday wheels, because he isn't riding them, everyday. I don't consider what the roads look like when I am riding my everyday wheels.


Well not only are you way too presumptuous, but you're just plain wrong. Read what I just posted: it was a matter of flats, not wheels. You apparently understand nothing of the monsoon season and the sort of crap that gets washed onto the roads. Again, it's got nothing to do with the rim.

I put a little over 1000 miles on the rims before I took them off for a bit. In that time, they went down dirt roads, gravel roads, over potholes, hopped off curbs, and road through BB deep water. There is zero problem with the durability of the rims.

Whether or not CF rims on an everyday wheel is a good idea or not is not something your eqipped to evaluate. Nope. Far from it. A little more knowledge of materials would help you a bit. Of course you've got the whole de rigeur use of "bling" down to a science.


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## FTF (Aug 5, 2003)

alienator said:


> Well not only are you way too presumptuous, but you're just plain wrong. Read what I just posted: it was a matter of flats, not wheels. You apparently understand nothing of the monsoon season and the sort of crap that gets washed onto the roads. Again, it's got nothing to do with the rim.


Actually it seems that you are far to presumptuous, and flat out wrong. You stopped riding them because of the cost(time/money) of replacing flats.... How does that change things, you are unwilling to use them everyday. I have no doubt that reynolds wheels could be ridden everyday, quality and durabiltity wise, I wouldn't question their strength, and I never did..... 



alienator said:


> Whether or not CF rims on an everyday wheel is a good idea or not is not something your eqipped to evaluate. Nope. Far from it. A little more knowledge of materials would help you a bit. Of course you've got the whole de rigeur use of "bling" down to a science.


I Wouldn't ride any tubular wheel daily, Al, carbon, Ti, magnisium it makes no sence, tubulars are a pain, and it seems you agree, flats are expensive, as it seems you would agree. 

And yes, they are simply bling, I like bling as much as the next person, but they are just bling for everyday riding, nothing wrong with being honest.


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## Mdeth1313 (Nov 1, 2001)

I use my reynolds stratus DV (tubulars) for "everyday" riding. I've had 1 flat in 3 years and I had a spoke breakage problem, but it turned out to be a design flaw that was fixed- no broken spokes since then. 
As for the bling- I dont race (anymore), havent for some time- but w/ those wheel on the bike, I just look at it and want to ride- and that's what matters!


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## alienator (Jun 11, 2004)

FTF said:


> Actually it seems that you are far to presumptuous, and flat out wrong. You stopped riding them because of the cost(time/money) of replacing flats.... How does that change things, you are unwilling to use them everyday. I have no doubt that reynolds wheels could be ridden everyday, quality and durabiltity wise, I wouldn't question their strength, and I never did.....


Or that's what you've presumed.....




FTF said:


> I Wouldn't ride any tubular wheel daily, Al, carbon, Ti, magnisium it makes no sence, tubulars are a pain, and it seems you agree, flats are expensive, as it seems you would agree.


Golly. Where was it published that what makes sense to you must also make sense to someone else? Are your sensibilities somehow the standard by which all decsions are made? That seems awefully presumptuous.



FTF said:


> And yes, they are simply bling, I like bling as much as the next person, but they are just bling for everyday riding, nothing wrong with being honest.


According to whom? You?

Whoooo, Doggy. At least, now, we've finally determined who it is that is qualified to make value judgements for everyone: it's FTF. He see's deep into the souls and psyche's of everyone.

We should have a seperate forum: The Oracle of FTF, the All Knowing, the All Presuming.

Uh-huh.


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## Mar001 (Sep 24, 2006)

*No Logic Trap*

danl1

Thanks for the opinion but there is no logic trap here as I have been asking a question about longevity of the things in the first place. The FSA's are used as an example only. I could have used the American's as the're nearly as cheap and perhaps more reliable than FSA's. The FSA's are a bit heavier which possibly implies thicker lamination in the rim which possibly implies more reliable for regular use, but now I am making an assumption. But this is the stuff I have been asking about.

Nothing wrong with questions, is there?

Many of you maintain tubulars are time wasters and not appropriate for regular daily travel; nothing could be more from the truth. Tubulars are far more convenient on the road as all one does is strip it off the rim, stretch the new one over and pump it up. Probably in 1/5th of the time it takes to change a clincher tube and try to slip the jolly thin little thing back inside the tyre without pinching it. No pinches with Tubulars!

Tubulars are very reliable these days, IF one selects a good reliable design to begin with, ie, antipuncture belting, good strong case with more than two tpi fabric layers and good brand. The tubulars give as reliable service as the clinchers and are SO convenient on the road. Yes repairs are more time consuming but no hassle once one learns the art. But if one chooses a good tubular from the outset, punctures are seldom. Having written all that, there is some cheap junk in tubulars that will not hold up more than 500 miles and give nothing but trouble, to the extent that the cheap stuff gives them a bad name and wards people away from them these days.


Mar001


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## FTF (Aug 5, 2003)

alienator said:


> Or that's what you've presumed.....





alienator said:


> It has everything to do with flat frequency. I went through a 2 week period where I flatted 9 or 10 times in 2 weeks, so I decided to take the tubulars off until the roads were more clean. FWIW, most of the flats were on clinchers, but given the amount of free time I have--i.e. not much--it's quicker to patch an inner tube than it is to open, patch, and sew shut a tubular. When I had 4 tubulars in need of repair, I just made the decision to take the tubular wheels off until the roads were cleared of all the flat making trash.


No that's what you said. 



alienator said:


> Golly. Where was it published that what makes sense to you must also make sense to someone else? Are your sensibilities somehow the standard by which all decsions are made? That seems awefully presumptuous.


I didn't say it made sence to anyone else. But apparently you agree, see your statement above. 




alienator said:


> According to whom? You?
> 
> Whoooo, Doggy. At least, now, we've finally determined who it is that is qualified to make value judgements for everyone: it's FTF. He see's deep into the souls and psyche's of everyone.
> 
> We should have a seperate forum: The Oracle of FTF, the All Knowing, the All Presuming.


I didn't make a value judgement for anyone, that would be, "people shouldn't buy bling." Not, "it's bling."


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## divve (May 3, 2002)

Tubulars that can be stripped off faster than a clincher aren't glued on properly. Depending on my wheels I ride tubulars as well, but I can't possible see how it's more convenient to carry two spare tubulars versus a couple of spare inner tubes. The latter can also be patched almost to infinity in case you get more than two flats on a ride.


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## Cruzer2424 (Feb 8, 2005)

FTF said:


> Actually it seems that you are far to presumptuous, and flat out wrong. You stopped riding them because of the cost(time/money) of replacing flats.... How does that change things, you are unwilling to use them everyday.


Can we refine our definitions a bit? If "race day" is on one end of the spectrum, wouldn't it only seem logical to have a wheelset for "teh crappiest of crap days?"


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## alienator (Jun 11, 2004)

FTF said:


> No that's what you said.


No, I said nothing about expense. Nowhere. Go back and read again. I pulled the Stratus DV's off because first, I was down to one non-flat tubular. Second, I needed to repair 4 flat tubulars, and I didn't have the time to do that. In fact, I decided I'd wait until the monsoon stopped and cars cleaned the roads before putting thd DV's back on. It has nothing to do with expense.

Care to offer a universal definition of "bling" that is value judgement free? "Bling" implies that you think you know something about someone else's reasons for purchasing something. Of course, you don't know. You just choose to think you know based on your own predilictions, envy, or whatever psychological needs you might have that are temporarily sated by judgement.

The idea that an everyday set of wheels _*has*_ to be ridden everyday is flawed. By your overly simplistic definition, my alloy wheels also aren't everyday wheels since they aren't on the bike everyday. Moreover, by the way your defining things, if a biker is hit by a car and the only resulting damage is that a set of wheels is taco'd, then those wheels can't be everyday wheels--even if they're 32 3x Mavic OP rims laced to Phil Wood hubs--since those taco'd wheels will have to come off the bike for a day or more. Such a definition is idiotic at best.

You've offered zippo that indicates in any way that CF rims aren't suitable for everyday use. Fact is, you have nothing that indicates anything of the sort.


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## alienator (Jun 11, 2004)

Mar001 said:


> Many of you maintain tubulars are time wasters and not appropriate for regular daily travel; nothing could be more from the truth. Tubulars are far more convenient on the road as all one does is strip it off the rim, stretch the new one over and pump it up. Probably in 1/5th of the time it takes to change a clincher tube and try to slip the jolly thin little thing back inside the tyre without pinching it. No pinches with Tubulars!
> 
> Tubulars are very reliable these days, IF one selects a good reliable design to begin with, ie, antipuncture belting, good strong case with more than two tpi fabric layers and good brand. The tubulars give as reliable service as the clinchers and are SO convenient on the road. Yes repairs are more time consuming but no hassle once one learns the art. But if one chooses a good tubular from the outset, punctures are seldom. Having written all that, there is some cheap junk in tubulars that will not hold up more than 500 miles and give nothing but trouble, to the extent that the cheap stuff gives them a bad name and wards people away from them these days.
> 
> ...


One area where tubular tires have lagged is puncture resistance, especially puncture resistance accompanied with a decent rolling resistance. Tufo's have crap for rolling resistance and also aren't known for their sweet ride. Conti now has tubular Gatorskins and the Competitions w/ Vectran. I've not tried 'em, but if they're as puncture resistant as GP4000's, then they're not that puncture resistant. Schwalbe is releasing the Ultremo, which is supposed to be muy resistant to flats, and Dugast is, sometime, going to release the SP's. Neither of those is on the road, though, so claims of puncture resistant are just that: claims.

In my latest spate of flats, though, most of them happened after I put the clinchers on the bike.


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## uzziefly (Jul 15, 2006)

I know a guy who rides a Zipp 606 for everyday training an all. No problems at that. I personally ride a Bontrager X Lite Carbon Aero Tubular wheelset on my Madone for my everyday rides and love em at that. No problems so far. Although I did cut my tubular wheels twice (both times rear) and that was a problem, since I don't carry a spare tubular with me. Clinchers are cheaper to replace of course. But, I like the feel of tubulars and my wheelset so I won't be changing em. Im just gonna hope I dont cut my tires anymore or anytime soon at least. Just stray away from sharp objects (of course!) and it should be safe. I was unlucky on both those 2 occasions I guess. Other then that, no issues with carbon wheels or tubulars. (My friend's Zipp 606 are clinchers)


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## Juanmoretime (Nov 24, 2001)

I've been watching this thread with interest and like most arguments there will not be a winner and everyone and no one will be happy. 

I ride my carbon wheel very frequently and sometimes daily. Are the fragile? I guess they could be should I wipe one out by hitting a pothole although I have seen aluminum rims completely destroyed by potholes. Yes they are expensive wheels but they just ride too good for race day only so if I have to replace a rim because I destroyed it, so what. I get to enjoy some of the finest wheels that can be ridden. I don't like the idea of having to pay to replace something I already have prematurely but to me the enjoyment verses the cost is well worth it. It's the cost of getting the most out of something that is one of my life's passions. 

I would sum all this up with the old saying of: "If you have to ask how much then you can't afford it". 

I'll add another one for Alienator: Cycling is almost as good as sex and it's better if your not getting any.


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## foz (Sep 30, 2004)

I have to ask how much, but only because I can't find a price anywhere... (when i do find the price, it's most likely that I won't be able to afford them anyway :cryin: ).

Does anyone know a european dealer for corima rims? I've had my eye on Divve's set of winiums on Tune hubs, and fancy a set for myself, but can't find a supplier or prices for the rims (only for the full corima wheels).

as the corimas will probably be too expensive, what recommendations can anyone give for some light alu clincher rims? the alex crostinis look nice, but how do they compare with the open pros, dt swiss, etc. weight and stiffness of final build are more important to me than aero (and please, no lectures on why weight doesn't matter and aero does). 

thanks

foz


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## divve (May 3, 2002)

Corima sells the rims direct. You can find them under the wheels section, then click choose/buy on the left menu. The price for a 700c Winium tubular rim is €339 and €425 for the clincher. Generally speaking I'm not sure I'd rely on carbon clinchers for regular riding however.

If I remember correctly, the price for the complete set that I built was about €1100 Euros including all the shipping costs.


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## Gnarly 928 (Nov 19, 2005)

I've ridden most of the wheels discussed. I ride tubular carbon wheels daily, though I occaisionally ride a set of alloy clinchers..because I still have em around. I had some carbon clinchers, Spinergy..Heavy. I'd give those kinda wheels a pass..
Ok, right now I own and ride, in no particular order: Zipp 303s (my most often ridden wheels, until just now) Corima 4 spoke rear/Aero deep V front..bought for windy time trials. Some Lew(Reynolds)mid V..Super rims, crappy American Classic hubs..I save these for races mostly..Some new(to me) Reynolds Cirro..low weight very nice White industry hubs..I think I'll be riding these as often as the Zipp 303s..

I find it difficult to choose to ride a crappy wheelset..I've owned Mavic Ksyrium, Open pro,,all kinds of clincher wheelsets..they just don't perform as well as the much lighter carbon tubular wheels available now. Are Carbon wheels expensive?..Not too much so if you buy carefully off ebay, like I have been..And, "Expensive?" What's that when maybe 5 fill-ups on your Ford Excrutiaioson equals what you'd give for new carbon wheels.

Think of all the time you spend in the saddle of your bike..Carbon tubulars work just fine for me every day wheels for sure.

Don Hanson


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## foz (Sep 30, 2004)

thanks divve, that's cheaper than I expected, but more than I was hoping for... I would have gone with the tubular version, not the clincher - it seems a bit silly to me to go all the way to carbon rims for the weight savings, but then stick with clinchers...


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## mangom4 (Aug 9, 2004)

omniviper said:


> do cheap and carbon ever come in the same package?



Nope. Not even cheap carbon is cheap!


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## Mar001 (Sep 24, 2006)

Foz

FIR's SRG 30's, record hubs or DT SWISS or something good like that and Sapim Lazer spokes.

You'll build them up for $700.00. $1000.00 if a pro does it for you. Building is easy, geta book on it. Make sure you use a thread locking glue to stop the spokes coming loose and all will be fine.

Great aluminium rim at the right weight, aero and price.

Mar001


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## foz (Sep 30, 2004)

thanks for the suggestion, but I'm looking for something light... 400g or thereabouts... those FIR are listed at 540g each!!!


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## estone2 (Sep 25, 2005)

foz said:


> thanks for the suggestion, but I'm looking for something light... 400g or thereabouts... those FIR are listed at 540g each!!!


Mavic Open Pros are like 425 apiece if I remember
DT RR 1.1s are 417 apiece
Mavic Reflex (Tubular) are 375g
Velocity Aeroheads are 420, I think. Velocity's stuff compares with Mavic's.

HTH!
-estone2


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## Scarpelli (Jul 6, 2006)

I have two Look 585s, and my everyday and racing wheels are Campy Hyperon tubulars, and Zipp 202 tubulars. I use Tufo tubulars with sealant, and with 8,000 miles a year, I average two or three flats. I don't even bother carrying a spare anymore, just a cellphone. 

The Zipps are a bit more fragile, but the Hyperons have around 20,000 miles on them, and they've never been trued or adjusted. I thought I had cracked a rim, but it was only a scratch.

Bottom line is my wheels and tires provide a great ride, low weight, reliability, plenty of grip, low tire wear, and bragging rights. The only downside is cost.


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## Mar001 (Sep 24, 2006)

Foz

It all depends on what dish size and what you want to do with them. These wheels are 30mm dish and will build up to good race/training wheels that will be reliable. Will build up to just 1640gms with the right hubs and in 20 spoke.

Many aero's are around 2000gms, in a deep dish and say Formula Xero XR-1 Aero's are 2200gms, for example. Everything Campag in aluminium and Ambossio is heavy.

Yes the FIR's are a little heavy, but not like most, this also means that the spoke count can be reduced and still retain excellent stiffness, strength and reliability. Do you want time-trial, race only wheels or something you can enjoy in training and general weekend racing? You need to ask yourself this.

The lightest aero's are probably Mavic Kyrium Equips at around 1500gms, but you will pay for them and many are complaining of reliability issues, of them breaking. The Firs' wont break.

If you want only a 21mm or so, aero, there are a few rims around which are 390gms, but if training or for general weekend racing - every week like, you will need higher spoke counts otherwise unreliable. More spokes, more windage!

For example the Velocity Escape - Tubular, look here:

http://www.velocityusa.com/default.asp?contentID=585

But lowest spoke count is 24, for obvious reasons!! Aeroheads are also 24 and are clincher. Do you want tubular or clincher? If racing, there is nothing faster than tubular - PERIOD!!

I reackon for a 30mm dish and 20 spokes, FIR's are pretty good stuff, reliable too.

Otherwise do like me and just go CARBON!!

Mar001


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## foz (Sep 30, 2004)

Mar001,

thanks for the info, but I'm really not looking for aero. My first post in this thread was a bit of an unintended hijack, but I did state that I'm looking for light and stiff above all else. I'm looking for something lighter than my neutron clinchers, as a second wheelset for everyday use (no specific races or TTs). As the winiums are a bit above my price range, I'd have to stay with aluminium, and would also probably stay with clinchers (I know all the pros and cons of tubs and clinchers, and clinchers suit my needs better). I'm looking for a set of 400g-ish alu clinchers to build around some tune hubs with probably 24f/28r spokes - something like the set of tune with crostinis that alienator has (over on the wheels forum) And FWIW, the dish of the wheels has very little to do with the aerodynamics, and a lot more to do with the strength and lateral rigidity. the rim 'profile', 'section', or 'height' has a lot to do with aero, but the dish of a wheel is something completely different to what you (and many many others) refer to as 'dish'

foz


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## Mar001 (Sep 24, 2006)

Very good

Dish, profile, section.

Semantics Foz, who cares, you know exactly what I was talking about, why play word games.

You can get clincher rims for 350gms from Yellow Jersey, if you go for older styles.

Mar001


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## divve (May 3, 2002)

foz said:


> Mar001,
> 
> thanks for the info, but I'm really not looking for aero. My first post in this thread was a bit of an unintended hijack, but I did state that I'm looking for light and stiff above all else. I'm looking for something lighter than my neutron clinchers, as a second wheelset for everyday use (no specific races or TTs).
> 
> foz


Compared to the Neutron it's going to be difficult to make something significantly lighter without giving up some stiffness. Especially the rear wheels from Campagnolo do very well with their rear hub geometry, rims, and dedicated rear rim reinforcements.


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## carbfib (Jul 15, 2005)

In this chat, we're the ONLY Campagnolo wheels~~~~ even more the ONLY Hyperon Clincher wheelsets. [I actually have Ultra-Hyperon] So what else be it about the long mileage with your Hyperons (as Mine are new, compared to Yours.) How frequent were potholes; of what quality of roads that You drove on. ETC


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## chuckice (Aug 25, 2004)

Just got back from riding the Blood, Sweat & Gears route plus Beech Mountain in Boone, NC on carbons all weekend...made me very very happy. I've got over 1000 miles on my Lightweights after switching from some Campy Eurus...wouldn't look back at all.


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## Mar001 (Sep 24, 2006)

Yeh Thanks Chuckice, sounds great.

Mar001


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## johanfl (May 23, 2003)

If you really want a good price on carbon tubular wheels buy them direcly from the manufactor in Taiwan. 
Weight is around 1500gr. The same wheelsets can be found in differenet shops under different labels for $1500. Of course it's not the same superquality as a Zipp but it's very close. Just as the same frame from Taiwan can found rebadged to a high profile label.

//Johan


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## FondriestFan (May 19, 2005)

I have those exact wheels from Taiwan. I'm putting an order for several. 
Since I can buy them rim-only, I'm thinking of using them for a PowerTap as well.

FYI, they're made by Equinox. They come with brake pads, etc.


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## BikinCO (Feb 17, 2004)

FondriestFan said:


> I have those exact wheels from Taiwan. I'm putting an order for several.
> Since I can buy them rim-only, I'm thinking of using them for a PowerTap as well.
> 
> FYI, they're made by Equinox. They come with brake pads, etc.


What is the contact info for them? Do they have a website?


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## johanfl (May 23, 2003)

Sure they have, it's Gigantex own brand Equinox.
http://www.gigantex.com.tw/
The website is really bad, it has almost ni info at all.


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## L_Johnny (Jul 15, 2006)

> Sure they have, it's Gigantex own brand Equinox.
> http://www.gigantex.com.tw/
> The website is really bad, it has almost ni info at all.
> A rim costs only $90, no shipping


so did you order via email? Paypal payment? more info please!


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## johanfl (May 23, 2003)

I haven´t actually orderd yet, but they want payment by T/T.


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## FondriestFan (May 19, 2005)

I have a contact in Taiwan, who gets this stuff from Gigantex for me. He gets his cut, so the rims end up being about $110 each, and the whole wheelset $360 complete. For 50mm carbon tubies, with skewers and brake pads, I'm not complaining!


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## L_Johnny (Jul 15, 2006)

I am interested in some clinchers. Sent them an email yesterday asking for quotes. No reply yet.


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## johanfl (May 23, 2003)

xxxxx


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## L_Johnny (Jul 15, 2006)

johanfl said:


> The price for a full carbon clincher wheelset should set you back $405 for 38mm and $415 for 50mm. For a alloy/carbon 50mm set the price should be $330


THanks for the info. So how did you get in touch with them? I sent an email to the address in the website posted above.


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## johanfl (May 23, 2003)

Hi.
I did the same. I sent an e-mail and took from there. They seem friendly and answer all my questions. But it's very difficult to get them to say the weight of a complete wheelset. They just keep saying the rim weight.
But perhaps FondriestFan can tell us the real weight and his opinon about the quality and how they feel?


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## emv3003 (Feb 9, 2005)

*Sounds too good.*

I have been looking at Carbon wheelsets but the price is a big deterent. This deal sounds unbelievable.

I have e-mailed Gigantex as well and hope to hear back soon.

If anyone has any additional information on these wheel sets please submit a post. I can't imagine that other manufactures or shops would be very happy that buying direct from Tiawan would be a possibility as it completely cuts them out.

Does anyone know what hubs they use. The Sapim spokes are a nice touch.

Thanks in advance.


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## johanfl (May 23, 2003)

They use Joytech/Novatech hubs.
Sure the price is unbeatable but it's a normal price from a Taiwan factory, just as it is with any other component the make in Taiwan. But remember that you are on your own when comes to warranty issues and things like that. 
Don't forget to add the cost for shipping, insurance, and sales tax.


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## Mar001 (Sep 24, 2006)

johanfl

Thankyou for the tip on this one, I appreciate it!

Mar001.


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## Kwantani (Sep 26, 2002)

*Q for Johanfl... diff bet. 3k and Marble?*

Johanfl,
Do you know what the difference between 3K and Marble on their quote? I kind of know what 3k is, but what is marble?

Kwan


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## johanfl (May 23, 2003)

Yes.
The marble finish is the middle rim in the picture.


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## Mar001 (Sep 24, 2006)

I have been in touch with Gigantex.

Here is what they write on the 3K and Marble Rims:

_"The difference between 3K and marble finish is just aesthetic. Of course, 3K is more expensive because the raw material cost is higher."_


_"Of course, you can tell us what spoke pattern you need to be on your rim. However, since it is always costly to do something non-standard in a factory, we will have to ask you to arrange at least 50 sets per model per batch or pay a little extra premium if the quantity is not economical for us to run this operation"_

Mar001


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## MTBRBrian (Feb 5, 2005)

Anyone have more info. about these wheels? I'm interested in the full carbon tubulars and am just curious.


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## dtelson (Jul 10, 2006)

*Reynolds Are amongst the Best*

Hey i have the DV-uls and ride them 500 to 1k miles per year. I ride them less than every day the more I get into racing and building an arsenal of race equipment. But if you are looking to put a little bling into your every day riding, get the regular DVs. Your LBS should give them to you under 1,500 and with skewers, cogs and tires well there goes your 1,500 easy. And now your on tubies for every day so time to get good with changing them roadside. But once you live through that for a season, it is no sweat and the Reynolds are amongst the best and lightest and most reliable outh there. And the DVs are just the right deepness, at I think 46mm which is for every day all around use. Good luck. I love them and the are fun to ride:thumbsup: BTW: Zipp clinchers are fine for every day too and you can find left overs in the shops everywhere for a good price.


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## too crusty (Nov 2, 2006)

Johan -can you please repost the picture of the carbon finishes?

Fondriestfan -how about a review on these puppies?!!!


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## santabarbara (Nov 27, 2004)

Just picked up a set up BNIB Reynolds DV Cross wheels for $800. Talk about a bomproof wheel and deal!


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## johanfl (May 23, 2003)

Here is the pic of the different carbon finishes.


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## too crusty (Nov 2, 2006)

Thanks Johan!


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## johanfl (May 23, 2003)

*Equinox/Gigantex wheels*

Just like to share i few pics of the wheels that i got from Gigantex.
The first impression is that the rims are absolutly true and straight, even spoke tension (by ear).
The hubs and body feels like there is too much grease in them, it feels like there is a little restriction in them. Hope it will go away after a couple of hundred kilometers.
The rims has a different carbon composition in the brake area.
The wheels feel wellbuilt but time will tell.
I have no scale at the moment so i don't know the real weight yet.
And i can't testride them cause it's winter here in good old Sweden. Minus 10 celcius and lots of snow.
The pics is of the 50mm tubs.


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## Scarpelli (Jul 6, 2006)

My two concerns would be 1) no straight-pull spokes, and 2) bladed spokes seem to make lots of turbulence. Notice how loud they whistle over 25 mph. Still, the rims look awesome.


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## KMan (Feb 3, 2004)

*email address?*

Is this the correct contact email address? [email protected]
I pulled it from their website. It is getting bounced back as not valid.

KMan
www.MLKimages.com





johanfl said:


> Just like to share i few pics of the wheels that i got from Gigantex.
> The first impression is that the rims are absolutly true and straight, even spoke tension (by ear).
> The hubs and body feels like there is too much grease in them, it feels like there is a little restriction in them. Hope it will go away after a couple of hundred kilometers.
> The rims has a different carbon composition in the brake area.
> ...


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## KMan (Feb 3, 2004)

*They won't sell directly to the end user *

I did get my email to go thru and Steve Lee from Gigatex said the are not ready to sell their products to end users. How did you get your set?
Can anyone in the US get these wheels?

KMan
www.MLKimages.com






johanfl said:


> Just like to share i few pics of the wheels that i got from Gigantex.
> The first impression is that the rims are absolutly true and straight, even spoke tension (by ear).
> The hubs and body feels like there is too much grease in them, it feels like there is a little restriction in them. Hope it will go away after a couple of hundred kilometers.
> The rims has a different carbon composition in the brake area.
> ...


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## baylorboy (Sep 23, 2005)

I got the same e-mail from Steve Lee saying they're not selling to end-users yet. Maybe we could organize a group buy or something. If they had enough volume, they might consider "speeding-up" their work on selling to end users.

TB


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## Alter Ego (Sep 10, 2005)

KMan said:


> I did get my email to go thru and Steve Lee from Gigatex said the are not ready to sell their products to end users. How did you get your set?
> Can anyone in the US get these wheels?
> 
> KMan
> www.MLKimages.com


 I received the same answer months ago.


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## KMan (Feb 3, 2004)

*I was a step ahead of you!*

Asked that in my original email - about a group bulk order to get a lower price. Only gave me the same answee as you received.

Now that I can't get these wheels - I'm almost more determined to find a way.
How did the guy in Sweden get his?

KMan
www.MLKimages.com






baylorboy said:


> I got the same e-mail from Steve Lee saying they're not selling to end-users yet. Maybe we could organize a group buy or something. If they had enough volume, they might consider "speeding-up" their work on selling to end users.
> 
> TB


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## johanfl (May 23, 2003)

Well, i have a registred busíness. That helps of course


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## boleiro (Jun 11, 2010)

I think this question is more compelling now than when this thread was started given all the new carbon options (at least its new to me)

. My tax return is going towards a new wheelset and I want to know if carbon wheelsets are durable for everyday use. Granted, my everyday use is not commuting or the like. I avoid the city streets and mainly ride up canyon roads or long open back roads. However, no matter your intent, you are bound to come across a pothole, cattle guard, or whatever else might lie in wait to punch your wheel in the mouth. I don't race, my rides are to stay fit and enjoy. But I take it seriously, and want good equipment that will make the ride faster and more fun. 

I started out looking at Reynolds Solitudes and Easton EA90 SL and the like. Depending on where you go and what deals are offered, $600 to $1000. Then I started to notice that for just a little more, there are some deals on carbon wheels. So, given that options for carbon wheels have definitely come down, the question for me is... will the carbon wheels be as reliable as the alloy sets? I know there is a risk with carbon wheels, but is it any greater than the risk of running alloy wheels daily?


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## Guymk (Mar 27, 2009)

Wow old thread resurrection.


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## AvantDale (Dec 26, 2008)

Yes...get them...


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## boleiro (Jun 11, 2010)

just to clarify... yes as in get carbon?


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## foofighter (Dec 19, 2008)

i am drawn to the sexiness that is carbon especially in a staggard setup. Ideally I would want a nice light set of aluminum and a set of 38mm frt and 50mm rear carbon for those fun big group ride days


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## dudigrinfeld (Aug 18, 2010)

Alienator
What can you tell me about your Reynolds stratus, are they clinchers? I'm considering buying a set as I have sat of zipp tubular 404 and another aloy clincher which I want to replace. I consider the sratus. Any advice bout them?


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## L_Johnny (Jul 15, 2006)

Holy thread revival Batman! I had no recollection of posting here...I never heard back from them, so I just forgot, never pursuit that further.


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## dudigrinfeld (Aug 18, 2010)

Which one you eventually bought..?


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## L_Johnny (Jul 15, 2006)

none....


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## dudigrinfeld (Aug 18, 2010)

Scott in MD said:


> 2500+ miles and counting on my Reynolds DV46's. I ride them everywhere. I rode them 34 miles today.


Stratus clinchers?


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## Scott in MD (Jun 24, 2008)

2500+ miles and counting on my Reynolds DV46's. I ride them everywhere. I rode them 34 miles today.


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## Scott in MD (Jun 24, 2008)

Umm actually they are DV3K clinchers on DT Swiss 240s hubs. Great wheels. I have a review up in the reviews.


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## MixMastaPJ (Feb 24, 2012)

How about those Chinese Carbons? Would I see any real deterioration if I rode those everyday? Or are we at a point where durability is no longer a concern?


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## BeepBeepZipTang (Oct 8, 2009)

MixMastaPJ said:


> How about those Chinese Carbons? Would I see any real deterioration if I rode those everyday? Or are we at a point where durability is no longer a concern?


Over 2200+ miles in 18 months, about 250 miles of that in Brooklyn and Bronx side streets roads, so far the Yishun tubs are strong and true.


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