# Steel frame for racing?



## volpepazza (Sep 4, 2007)

Does anyone race a steel frame? What are the +/-?

The reason I am asking is because I have heard that steel is both durable and comfortable. Are there any race-worthy steel frames or bikes out there?

I'm thinking about getting a new road bike and will race CAT 5, moving up to CAT 4 eventually. I race what I train on. Favorites are stage races. 

I'm currently riding a Blue RC5 AL / 105 and I like it just fine. I'm thinking about a more durable frame because when I was riding home one day I forgot I was NOT on my mtb and tried to ride up some steps. Imagine my surprise when the read wheel spun out. Yes, the frame got a couple good dents. My mtb has a Ti frame and I don't see myself replacing that anytime soon. 

Thanks for your feedback.


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## Chuck_ MI (Nov 14, 2009)

Reynolds 853 is cool, but it will dent just as easily as your AL frame. Good steel is thin-walled.
I ride and race a Ritchey frame that uses Dedacciai tubing that is basically the same as the 853. Some would say that it is superior. I don't care. It's light (for steel), and it works. I got one third place finish this year, but I think it had to do more with my training for the event, and was quite a bit less about the bike I was riding. YMMV.


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## Pancho's Balls (Aug 15, 2009)

Chuck_ MI said:


> Reynolds 853 is cool, but it will dent just as easily as your AL frame.


Incorrect. But then again, everyone on the internet is wrong, including me. But this is incorrect. Feel free to argue.


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## Creakyknees (Sep 21, 2003)

your Blue is fine for racing, as long as the dents don't compromise the structure. have a bike shop look at it.

(I've been racing all year on a Cdale with a bit dent in the top tube)


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## Scooper (Mar 4, 2007)

Here's a very competitive Waterford R33 in Reynolds 953. Weight as shown is 16.4 pounds (not mine). It's comfortable and race-worthy, but not inexpensive.


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## j-dogg (Feb 19, 2009)

Waterford FTW.......they built all the later Paramounts for Schwinn.

Steel......I don't "race" per say but I do ride on Columbus SLX, which is not only steel but old school Italian steel. 

I had rode many bikes and I still say steel is real, I can hang with the carbon guys on the group rides and even pull for a few miles for them, and I have an old school steel frame, 2000 grams. :thumbsup:


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## Hank Stamper (Sep 9, 2009)

maybe it's more durable than aluminum but when you figure how much more expensive racable steel is compared to aluminum I don't think it makes much sense if durability and $ is your main reason. If you just like the ride or feel you'd be getting with steel, different story, but purely investment wise for a fear of crash motive I wouldn't choose steel.

Many crashes that wreck aluminum will also trash a steel bike.

Ones that don't, you can just get another aluminum frame and still be up financially over having a steel frame that didn't get trashed.


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## Srexy (Oct 25, 2005)

I wouldn't really want to race my 20lb Soma Smoothie in a crit - road race maybe. Not sure if this would change if the tubeset was higher zoot or lighter.


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## MontyCrisco (Sep 21, 2008)

Just get the steel bike, you know you want it. But save your Al bike for racing. It won't sting as much if you crash it. Like they say, don't race what you can't replace.


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## JaeP (Mar 12, 2002)

MontyCrisco said:


> . Like they say, don't race what you can't replace.


Word.

I have a nice stable of bikes; mostly steel. For weekend rides, club rides etc. steel is fine. My race bikes are aluminum (road and track). Steel frames are repairable but you have to ask yourself "how much do I really love this bike?" For example, it cost me $600 to replace a down tube and top tube (and a repaint) of one of my beloved Schwinn Paramounts (sadly a few months later the bike was stolen out of my garage). For $600 I could buy two cheap Chinese Carbon (how's that for alliteration) frames but then I would be riding a plastic bike instead of steel; which I love riding.

FWIW, I took my steel Colnago to a road race and got 16th. She had toe clips and straps, 7speeds, friction DT shifters!, and tubular tires.


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## exracer (Jun 6, 2005)

> Reynolds 853 is cool, but it will dent just as easily as your AL frame.


Yeah, don't let that broom fall against your bike. You'll come out one morning and find that it has chopped through your frame like a hot knife through butter.Excuse me while I leave the room. I have a feeling that my carbon fiber bike is about to explode for no apparent reason.


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## team_sheepshead (Jan 17, 2003)

I own two custom steel bikes (both Zanconato frames), and have raced on them both. I find them ideal for the races around here, which are not terribly hilly. For racing, I want to be comfortable and efficient, and having a frame designed for me seems to make me more comfortable. In general, a smooth-riding steel frame seems ideal for racing, IMHO, even if it is not custom, for the comfort reasons mentioned above.

Some may think I'm crazy to race a custom-steel bike and risk damage, but Zank loves people to race his bikes. If I ever trashed one and needed a repair job, I figure Zank would work with me. I can't imagine he would charge me any more than it would cost me to replace a cheap carbon frame broken in a crash.

On the other hand, I had my best racing results on a no-name, $249 aluminum frame. Maybe subconsciously, I was never worried about crashing it, or "living up" to the name on the downtube.


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## Argentius (Aug 26, 2004)

*Yeah, but why?*

I've raced steel, Al, and carbon, loved my 853 steel bike, and it was reasonably light -- 19 lbs with Campy Chorus all-alloy parts and "normal" wheels, tires.

But, 853 is very thin walled. The bike dented very easily indeed -- perhaps not as easily as aluminum, as above, but close.

Considering how cheaply you can buy a basic, Asia-built raceable Al frame for such a good price that I can't see why you'd intentionally seek out a lightweight steel frame for racing.

Don't get me wrong, you can get some GREAT steel bikes out there... but if it wasn't what I already had, I wouldn't get one as a race bike.


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## volpepazza (Sep 4, 2007)

Thanks for all the great advice. It looks like I want to stick with my now dinged up aluminum bike for racing and just replace parts as needed. CAT 5 seems to be a combative sport event. I've got two circuit races, a TT, and a crit under my belt (yes, got snapped off the end of lap 15 with a 180+ HR since lap 3). Anyways, on my second circuit race there was a pileup on the second lap, from 2/3 back you could hear the bikes and bodies hitting the ground well before you could see the pile. I was one of the few guys to make it around the edge before the pile blocked the entire road (came in 6th on that one). The thought of being in the melee of wheels and elbows with a nice bike, any nice bike, is not appealing. 
I've done a little reading and still think a classic Italian steel stage bike would be a neat ride. Maybe for centuries and good weather tours. Anyone have any recommendations on a high end bike to last for the long haul?


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## Peter P. (Dec 30, 2006)

If you're gonna race you want CHEAP. You WILL crash. You WILL break things. You want to be able to trash it on Sunday and replace it on Monday without crying about the cost.

Steel will offer you the potential to straighten a frame if it's bent in a crash. You can't say that with aluminum or carbon. Other than that, material is really irrelevant.

A good inexpensive steel frame is a Gunnar. Soma and Salsa are good candidates as well. Only buy expensive stuff if you're prepared to lay it down in the last corner, and walk away laughing. Otherwise, leave the expensive bikes for the Sunday rides; the victory is in your legs, not the bike.


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## CliveDS (Oct 7, 2009)

I have a orbea zonal with record that I race at times, it's just as good as the higher end carbon frames I own only a little heavier. 

I have crashed it a few times and it's still going strong, has a dent in the top tube but no problems there. 

Go for it steel is great.


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## exracer (Jun 6, 2005)

> But, 853 is very thin walled. The bike dented very easily indeed -- perhaps not as easily as aluminum, as above, but close.


I got to tell you; I must be doing something seriously wrong. I've owned several steel bikes and they were made with either Columbus, 853 and my Paramount is an OS (not exactly sure what the specs on that True Temper tubeset are). Never a dent. In fact the only aluminum frame I owned that had any kind of small dents was my Specialized M2 back when I was racing mountain bikes. Of course kicking up a rock that bashes the frame at 25-30mph is slightly different from a broom falling on it. My Abici (which is aluminum) would require something fairly heavy to dent the frame and at just over 17lbs; it built up fairly light.


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## Hand/of/Midas (Apr 15, 2008)

The owner of English Cycles personal race bike is 12.5 lbs.
Enough said.


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## Argentius (Aug 26, 2004)

*Dings*

I'm talking about crashing -- bar into top tube, knee into top tube, other riders' pedals into stays, that kind of thing.




exracer said:


> I got to tell you; I must be doing something seriously wrong. I've owned several steel bikes and they were made with either Columbus, 853 and my Paramount is an OS (not exactly sure what the specs on that True Temper tubeset are). Never a dent. In fact the only aluminum frame I owned that had any kind of small dents was my Specialized M2 back when I was racing mountain bikes. Of course kicking up a rock that bashes the frame at 25-30mph is slightly different from a broom falling on it. My Abici (which is aluminum) would require something fairly heavy to dent the frame and at just over 17lbs; it built up fairly light.


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## Sherpa23 (Nov 5, 2001)

I raced in 2002 on custom steel frame built with Dedacciai EOM 16.5. Won two pro races on it and never thought that I was at a disadvantage. The problem was that I trained in the rain a lot that spring and I ended up cracking the frame on the seat tube, near the BB, in a sprint. Even though it had some rust proofing on the inside, the tubes rusted out on the inside and they were so thin, it didn't take a lot.

Anyway, if that didn't happen, I wouldn't have thought that there was any disadvantage to steel. However, with those wall thicknesses, or lack thereof, I think that you might as well get one of those $400 eBay carbon frames. They're not the best but they're good for the money and I bet they can take some abuse.


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## Kristatos (Jan 10, 2008)

I have raced (and crashed in races) on both steel and aluminum. At the end of the day I'd rather be on steel, so all my riding and racing is done on steel. If I had to ride a throwaway Al frame to race I wouldn't race. It was a bummer though when the first steel frame I loved was wrecked in a pile-up in the last corner of a crit - it didn't matter that it had been given to me by a sponsor. After that I picked up an RB1 frame new and built it up and raced it for years and it survived just fine. Nowadays when I do race it's masters and I avoid 4-corner drag strips and only enter races with a hill or something to force a selection and thin out the pack. I can understand the comments here about racing a throw-away frame but I don't look at racing from the perspective of what could go wrong or I'd not do it at all.


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## Sherpa23 (Nov 5, 2001)

Kristatos said:


> I can understand the comments here about racing a throw-away frame but I don't look at racing from the perspective of what could go wrong or I'd not do it at all.


Very well said. Early on in my cycling career I used to keep the really good stuff for "safer" races and/or training. You know what? I used to sell them having hardly used them. Now I race and ride all the time on super nice stuff because, well, that's what it's for. I spend so many hours a day on a bike, life's too short to save the super good stuff in my basement or whatever.


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## garbec (Mar 3, 2006)

I just built up a steel Soma Smoothie which will be my main training and racing bike for this year. $365 for the frame. It's weighing in at 17.75 lbs with my winter training wheels. Fits me great, rides and handle's beautifully, it's plenty stiff, and it will drop 3/4's of a pound with the race wheels on. Best part is that if it ever gets real banged up or totaled, I'll just get another without being too upset.


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## dd74 (Aug 2, 2007)

If you go high end, such as with a Serotta custom steel bike, the company has a crash protection plan. I don't know the details of the plan. It should be on their website, serotta.com.


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## mpapet (Dec 2, 2009)

As someone that raced/rode steel when it was the *only* material to build frames out of, I'd say the big difference is geometry.

On average, I find all mass-produced road frames shorter and steeper these days regardless of material. If you spent some money and had a frame built with a 71/72 deg. seat angle regardless of material, I think you'd find it a luxurious ride. It's shocking to discover the engine works the same regardless of seat angle too!


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