# The Astana plot thickens



## pulser955 (Apr 18, 2009)

Looks like Contador might be free. 
http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/astanas-protour-application-still-not-in-order-contador-free-to-go


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## alexb618 (Aug 24, 2006)

this means absolutely nothing at this point


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## twiggy (Mar 23, 2004)

alexb618 said:


> this means absolutely nothing at this point


...I don't see how it doesnt?...:
" 'The standard UCI rider/team contract (2.15.139 article 8.1.f) states, "if, on 20 October of the year preceding a year of registration covered by the present contract, the UCI ProTeam has not submitted a registration file containing the essential documents," the rider may terminate the contract "without notice or liability for damages'.' "

Looks like he is free to terminate and re-sign as of now...although with their *probably* high $$$ offer to keep him, seemingly new interest in building a team around him, etc. I wonder if leaving is still so attractive to him?


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## mohair_chair (Oct 3, 2002)

Maybe he'll join Radio Shack. They are still hiring.


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## FondriestFan (May 19, 2005)

mohair_chair said:


> Maybe he'll join Radio Shack. They are still hiring.


Yeah, but the only position at which they're hiring is Lance's waterboy and Contador is a bit overqualified.


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## mohair_chair (Oct 3, 2002)

FondriestFan said:


> Yeah, but the only position at which they're hiring is Lance's waterboy and Contador is a bit overqualified.


The boot licker position is still open. It's hard to fill these days.


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## JSR (Feb 27, 2006)

Wow, thta is big news indeed! I saw the UCI announcement this morning and sort of yawned - another month of wrangling. If that rider contract clause is accurate, and if it is true that Astana's submittal is deficient in some material way, the fun will begin immediately.

I'm sticking to my prediction that Contador goes to Garmin, Wiggins goes to Sky, VdV goes to the Shack, and Astana is left "searching for stage wins" as they say.

And then there are QukcStep and Caisse d'Epargne, who are said to be standing by with open wallets.

"Very interesting, " says Col. Klink. 


JSR


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## cycleboyco (Oct 6, 2007)

*So where does he go?*

I'm guessing this has been discussed ad nauseum in another thread, but the fact that it looks like he has a legitimate out makes this discussion more interesting.

I keep seeing Garmin pop-up as a strong possibility. What makes that seem possible from a financial perspective is that, from what I read in CycleSport, Team Sky is loaded financially and could pay a handsome contract buyout for Wiggins, which Garmin could use to pay Contador, I'm both a Garmin and Contador fan, but Garmin has always seemed to be a great "team" versus a team built for one objective/person, which is what it seems like Contador would prefer. Course, I'm sure Garmin/Vaughters would also like the to win a Grand Tour.

Caisse d'Espargne seems like a better fit, but I'm not sure if their similar situation to Astana as far as not meeting the document deadline hurts their chances . I also don't know if they want to see how the Valverde thing plays out, though Contador would be about as good as an insurance policy as you could get.

I saw Quick Step mentioned as well in the VeloNews article, but that seems strange given their seemingly prior lack of GC/Grand Tour intentions, though maybe that's why they would want Contador, especially if Boonen can't get his act back together.


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## EMB145 Driver (Aug 17, 2006)

FondriestFan said:


> Yeah, but the only position at which they're hiring is Lance's waterboy and Contador is a bit overqualified.



With the economy the way it is, he should just be lucky to have a job.


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## FondriestFan (May 19, 2005)

EMB145 Driver said:


> With the economy the way it is, he should just be lucky to have a job.


Sports stars aren't exactly hurting these days. Maybe a few are selling their 8th car, but most are buying their 9th.


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## alexb618 (Aug 24, 2006)

twiggy said:


> ...I don't see how it doesnt?...


until we hear from an official source 'alberto contador is now out of his contract with astana' it means nothing, apart from internet forum speculation


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## stevesbike (Jun 3, 2002)

there's a more thorough article on Velonews suggesting that the failure to file papers by Oct 20 alone could be the basis for terminating his contract. In other words, he doesn't have to wait until Nov 20. It's a new, more stringent rule put in place a few months ago.


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## Specialized6000 (Aug 22, 2009)

I hope Saxo Bank get their documentation together


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## iliveonnitro (Feb 19, 2006)

If Garmin signs Contador, cycling will implode.


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## FondriestFan (May 19, 2005)

iliveonnitro said:


> If Garmin signs Contador, cycling will implode.


Why exactly will cycling implode?


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## 55x11 (Apr 24, 2006)

FondriestFan said:


> Why exactly will cycling implode?


I just cannot see Contador at Garmin. Cannot even picture him in Gamin uniform. I bet he will go to Caisse d'Epargne, even for a paycut. Having his spanish domestiques protecting him, with a single-minded GC focused team may prove to be more important - Garmin has too many english-speaking riders and too many goals (Farrar for sprints, Zabriskie and Millar for ITT, and then Wiggo and Vande Velde with their own agenda).


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## pulser955 (Apr 18, 2009)

If he goes i really thing its going to be Caisse d'Epargne or Quick Step


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## Jesse D Smith (Jun 11, 2005)

55x11 said:


> I just cannot see Contador at Garmin. Cannot even picture him in Gamin uniform. I bet he will go to Caisse d'Epargne, even for a paycut. Having his spanish domestiques protecting him, with a single-minded GC focused team may prove to be more important - Garmin has too many english-speaking riders and too many goals (Farrar for sprints, Zabriskie and Millar for ITT, and then Wiggo and Vande Velde with their own agenda).


I have an idea this will take a while to play out. Money will be the issue. I agree _if_ Astana farts around with finances and gives him an out, he'll wind up at Caisse, but not until he gives other teams a chance to submit offers, raising the winning bid. He'll feel some real and constant pressure from the winning bidder,and that pressure will show its face as the season develops.


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## FondriestFan (May 19, 2005)

Jesse D Smith said:


> I have an idea this will take a while to play out. Money will be the issue. I agree _if_ Astana farts around with finances and gives him an out, he'll wind up at Caisse, but not until he gives other teams a chance to submit offers, raising the winning bid. He'll feel some real and constant pressure from the winning bidder,and that pressure will show its face as the season develops.


He seemed to do quite well with all the pressure he faced during this year's Tour. The guy's a cool customer.


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## Jesse D Smith (Jun 11, 2005)

FondriestFan said:


> He seemed to do quite well with all the pressure he faced during this year's Tour. The guy's a cool customer.


He did handle being a young team leader well in his first Tour win, and came out of this year's Astana _situation_ on top, but I think he'll face a very different sort of pressure this season. 

I'd really like to see him continue to mature and show he can use the experience he's gained. I'd really like to see Lance show up in phenomenal shape, and the two of them battle on the road and make the entire Tour entertaining.


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## jlandry (Jan 12, 2007)

He *needs* to be doing his "Thumbs Up" in a Rock Racing kit. : )


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## Coolhand (Jul 28, 2002)

stevesbike said:


> there's a more thorough article on Velonews suggesting that the failure to file papers by Oct 20 alone could be the basis for terminating his contract. In other words, he doesn't have to wait until Nov 20. It's a new, more stringent rule put in place a few months ago.



Link for those interested:

http://www.velonews.com/article/99519/astana-s-missed-deadline-may-give-contador-an-out


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## Coolhand (Jul 28, 2002)

FondriestFan said:


> Why exactly will cycling implode?


Yeah, if anything the silly season would become a lot more fun. Cause Wiggo would then have to move to Sky. Fun stuff. 

Plus without Conty/ProTour status, Astana certainly would not make the cut at any ASO races. Probably not the Giro either. 

I am all in favor of a Astana implosion, followed by a epic game of GC contender musical chairs. :thumbsup:


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## Coolhand (Jul 28, 2002)

*Text of interest*



Coolhand said:


> Link for those interested:
> 
> http://www.velonews.com/article/99519/astana-s-missed-deadline-may-give-contador-an-out


Here is the interesting part:



> Article 2.15.139 of the UCI rulebook includes provisions that allow a rider to “terminate the present contract, without notice nor liability for damages,” if certain conditions or circumstances occur.
> 
> Included in that list are a team’s bankruptcy, loss of ProTour status and sub-section 8, which may serve as the key to Contador’s early exit from the Astana:
> 
> ...


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## Gnarly 928 (Nov 19, 2005)

Maybe whoever he signs with will send him to the TOC rather than the Giro...Wouldn't that be cool? Head to head against Lance and Levi on American soil...Beat them 'Murikans! 

If Pro Cycling is all about the money and 'value' for sponsors, imagine the interest in that kind of confrontation.. The Giro? Ho-hum...just another Euro stage race like's been going on for years and years..

.I know....Say Garmin gets him, Vaughters mouths-off with a lot of his 'holier than thou' rap and gets Ole Lance all riled-up (Twitter-pated) ..Hincapie slips into the mix somehow...maybe as a stage winner early on..(they can fix that) Frank and Andy show again...(what could it cost Amgen to get them over?) We get Lance's little buddy Cavendish and Thor for the flat crap and have some kinda demonstration in downtown LA that holds up the race... and 'We got a ratings winner'.... Much better $how than any old Giro... Amgen could probably get the Guvinator and Obama..maybe even Sarah Palin...


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## peter.hardie (May 31, 2006)

alexb618 said:


> until we hear from an official source 'alberto contador is now out of his contract with astana' it means nothing, apart from internet forum speculation


Kinda what the interwebs are for? No?


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## JSR (Feb 27, 2006)

Gnarly 928 said:


> Maybe whoever he signs with will send him to the TOC rather than the Giro...Wouldn't that be cool? Head to head against Lance and Levi on American soil...Beat them 'Murikans!
> 
> If Pro Cycling is all about the money and 'value' for sponsors, imagine the interest in that kind of confrontation.. The Giro? Ho-hum...just another Euro stage race like's been going on for years and years..
> 
> .I know....Say Garmin gets him, Vaughters mouths-off with a lot of his 'holier than thou' rap and gets Ole Lance all riled-up (Twitter-pated) ..Hincapie slips into the mix somehow...maybe as a stage winner early on..(they can fix that) Frank and Andy show again...(what could it cost Amgen to get them over?) We get Lance's little buddy Cavendish and Thor for the flat crap and have some kinda demonstration in downtown LA that holds up the race... and 'We got a ratings winner'.... Much better $how than any old Giro... Amgen could probably get the Guvinator and Obama..maybe even Sarah Palin...


Dude, you've got the imagination machine working overtime today!


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## bnoojin (Mar 24, 2002)

*Conta to Caisse*

that's by far the most logical place for him. Spaniard on a Spanish team surrounded by amigos and a Tour winning director in Eusebio Unzue (Indurain years). El Pistolero's main concern will be loyalty, especially after the Astana-Armstrong drama this year. it's simply a question if Caisse can pony up enough pesos. 

can't wait for the rematch between LA and Pisto.

it would be a travesty if he was hamstrung by Astana's contract and non ProTour license.


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## Coolhand (Jul 28, 2002)

The gang that couldn't shoot straight responds:



> The managers of the Astana team said Friday that they will work tirelessly to keep Alberto Contador on the Kazakh-financed team, despite missing a UCI deadline that might give the defending Tour de France champion the right to terminate his contract.
> 
> The Kazakh Cycling Federation, which manages the professional team, issued a statement restating its commitment to the sport and its desire to keep the four-time grand tour winner on its roster.
> 
> Contador, meanwhile, is taking a go-slow approach to the issue, waiting for his lawyers to determine whether or not the applicable UCI rule – adopted in July – would apply to contracts that were already in force at the time of its passage.


Lesson #1: don't miss your filing deadlines you morons.

Lesson #2: don't hire _your brother_ as your agent.


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## JSR (Feb 27, 2006)

Coolhand said:


> Lesson #1: don't miss your filing deadlines you morons.
> 
> Lesson #2: don't hire _your brother_ as your agent.


Too true.


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## rockstar2083 (Aug 30, 2005)

Hire your brother as driver/provider of backup car.


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## T-shirt (Aug 15, 2004)

mohair_chair said:


> The boot licker position is still open. It's hard to fill these days.


Car Wrangler is also available.


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## iliveonnitro (Feb 19, 2006)

Contador is free to go! Where will he end up?

http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/uci-confirms-contador-can-leave-astana

My guess:
Caisse


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## worst_shot_ever (Jul 27, 2009)

Weird situation. Not sure how a sporting body's regulations can trump a legally binding contract (unless the contract specifically incorporates that body's rules and regs). Actually, I guess the regs don't "trump" -- unless Astana wants to race in that body's races, in which case UCI can say forget it. Although that would seem to be something along the lines of tortious interference with contract, which in the US at least is a civil cause of action.


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## NextTime (Oct 13, 2007)

And what about the riders who joined Astana the last couple of days? Presumably they are free to go elsewhere as well?


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## iliveonnitro (Feb 19, 2006)

worst_shot_ever said:


> Weird situation. Not sure how a sporting body's regulations can trump a legally binding contract (unless the contract specifically incorporates that body's rules and regs). Actually, I guess the regs don't "trump" -- unless Astana wants to race in that body's races, in which case UCI can say forget it. Although that would seem to be something along the lines of tortious interference with contract, which in the US at least is a civil cause of action.


The contracts signed by the majority of riders are a UCI-based contract. Only minor details are typically changed in the legal wording. Eg, salary/benefits, a buyout clause, a termination clause, an anti-doping clause.

If Contador signed a UCI-created contract, both parties must fulfill requirements and any new rules set forth by the UCI. Thus, Astana broke UCI rules and Contador can flee.


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## worst_shot_ever (Jul 27, 2009)

Gotcha, thx


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## Coolhand (Jul 28, 2002)

iliveonnitro said:


> Contador is free to go! Where will he end up?
> 
> http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/uci-confirms-contador-can-leave-astana
> 
> ...


Garmin- and Wiggo jumps to Sky.


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## iktome (Aug 29, 2003)

iliveonnitro said:


> If Contador signed a UCI-created contract, both parties must fulfill requirements and any new rules set forth by the UCI. Thus, Astana broke UCI rules and Contador can flee.


That might be how it turns out, but it's not so obvious or clear as you suggest. Without the actual language of the contract, and some understanding of the laws of whatever jurisdiction would be responsible for interpreting the contract, it's impossible to say for certain what will happen. The UCI doesn't get to decide if Astana has violated the terms of its contract with Contador.


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## alexb618 (Aug 24, 2006)

iliveonnitro said:


> Contador is free to go! Where will he end up?
> 
> http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/uci-confirms-contador-can-leave-astana
> 
> ...


now thats real news


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## Guest (Oct 23, 2009)

Since this applies to the other teams that also missed the deadline, including Saxo I assume, any other big name riders who might be tempted to look elsewhere?


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## El Caballito (Oct 31, 2004)

jlandry said:


> He *needs* to be doing his "Thumbs Up" in a Rock Racing kit. : )


Contador's pistol quickly becomes a shotgun... can you imagine Conti cock'in the double barrel?


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## iliveonnitro (Feb 19, 2006)

iktome said:


> That might be how it turns out, but it's not so obvious or clear as you suggest. Without the actual language of the contract, and some understanding of the laws of whatever jurisdiction would be responsible for interpreting the contract, it's impossible to say for certain what will happen. The UCI doesn't get to decide if Astana has violated the terms of its contract with Contador.


I've never seen a protour contract. I could probably ask Matt Busche if I ever see him again...doubtful, though. I have seen a domestic contract, but obviously that doesn't have clauses for most UCI stuff.

Sure the UCI doesn't decide if the contract is violated. But since they get to see every contract that is signed by a UCI rider, they probably know if it was violated. Just a guess.


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## JSR (Feb 27, 2006)

iliveonnitro said:


> I've never seen a protour contract.


There is a proforma protour contract on the UCI/protour web site. I think it's embeded in the protour rules and regs.s

JSR


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## FondriestFan (May 19, 2005)

So, let me get this straight, the team that was absolutely desperate to keep Contador just happens to miss the deadline that allows him to leave his unbreakable contract?

I'm just not buying it. That would be an absolutely staggering level of incompetence, and since I doubt Dubya is in charge of the Astana team, I'm very skeptical. Something else is going on.


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## JSR (Feb 27, 2006)

FondriestFan said:


> , I'm very skeptical. Something else is going on.


I don't dispute that there could be monkey business, but I think the issue could be around whether Astana made a "valid" submittal. Like you, I find it impossible to believe that they didn't at least try to get all the docs in on time. The question, IMHO, is whether they had all the funding, management, contracts, etc. etc. in place. Or did they "pencil whip" it?

JSR


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## Sherpa23 (Nov 5, 2001)

iliveonnitro said:


> The contracts signed by the majority of riders are a UCI-based contract. Only minor details are typically changed in the legal wording. Eg, salary/benefits, a buyout clause, a termination clause, an anti-doping clause.
> 
> If Contador signed a UCI-created contract, both parties must fulfill requirements and any new rules set forth by the UCI. Thus, Astana broke UCI rules and Contador can flee.



That's not true. There is no such thing as a "UCI created contract." What the UCI does do is require clauses in each contract addressing a multitude of requirements and its lawyers review each contract to see if it meets those requirements that it set forth. Everyone one of us on a UCI trade team signed contracts that were later reviewed by the UCI and I know that on my team, some of us had to have our contracts redone because they did not read the way the UCI wanted them to read. I wouldn't say that they violated their requirements but rather there were parts that were not as clear as they should be. Again the UCI makes the riders and the teams write the contracts, not the other way around.


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## iliveonnitro (Feb 19, 2006)

Sherpa23 said:


> later reviewed by the UCI and I know that on my team, some of us had to have our contracts redone because they did not read the way the UCI wanted them to read.


Just the wording/format, or actual things that would cause a contract to be invalid? Are lawyers at the UCI looking at these contracts?


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## north_of_us (May 10, 2006)

Yeah something is going on, UCI just doesnt like Astana, Astana is officially blacklisted. Time to close shop, myself i find it hilarious that the welfare board of Kazakhstan is one of the major sponsor for the team.


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## stevesbike (Jun 3, 2002)

always follow the $ - the UCI desperately wanted Contador off Astana. They know the $ value of a Contador-Armstrong Tour showdown (look at the spike in Tour viewership/media coverage etc this year). The escape clause in question - while maybe not written exclusively for Contador - was added to UCI contracts in July and sure looks like it was adding levels of stringency they suspected Astana's management couldn't rise to...


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## north_of_us (May 10, 2006)

oh my 2 cents, AC to Garmin until that new Spanish squad gets a UCI license, then AC to that squad. AC seems to be the Spanish version of LA with pride for his country.


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## Einstruzende (Jun 1, 2004)

As I said long ago, Contador will end up at CdE. He won't have to worry about GC contention, seeing how Valv will in all likelyhood lose the appeal and be gone 2 years. That means CdE has need and freed up money.


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## Sherpa23 (Nov 5, 2001)

iliveonnitro said:


> Just the wording/format, or actual things that would cause a contract to be invalid? Are lawyers at the UCI looking at these contracts?


1. I think that's a matter of interpretation. They looked like minor wording changes to me but obviously someone felt that was an actual thing, right?

2. I can only speak for my team but the lawyers from the UCI did review each and every one of our contracts.


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## pulser955 (Apr 18, 2009)

Looks like the UCI is saying hes free to leave the team.
http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/uci-confirms-contador-can-leave-astana


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## wheezer (Sep 21, 2004)

Someone's pulling strings for someone. The UCI confirming that Conti is free to go is suspect. They've created an out for Contador and Conti's team is weighing whether they want to jump through it. Vino and his thugs are running up against a bigger, more connected group of thugs after they tried to muscle their way over JB. The Kazaks have a lot lined up against them. ASO organizers after Vino's/Kasch's positives, the aforementioned JB episode, then don't forget that Kasch tried to tell CAS they didn't have jurisdiction over his contract (EU). And there are probably some Spanish interests lining up against them to get their hands on Conti. This is turning into a Dan Brown novel.


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## Salsa_Lover (Jul 6, 2008)

I hope Contador is free soon from those clowns and ready to kick LA ass again next year


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## Coolhand (Jul 28, 2002)

Salsa_Lover said:


> I hope Contador is free soon from those clowns and ready to kick LA ass again next year


Is it the bikes or the condiment? Or the dance?

I like the first two, but always wondered which one you meant.


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## Coolhand (Jul 28, 2002)

wheezer said:


> Someone's pulling strings for someone. The UCI confirming that Conti is free to go is suspect. They've created an out for Contador and Conti's team is weighing whether they want to jump through it. Vino and his thugs are running up against a bigger, more connected group of thugs after they tried to muscle their way over JB. The Kazaks have a lot lined up against them. ASO organizers after Vino's/Kasch's positives, the aforementioned JB episode, then don't forget that Kasch tried to tell CAS they didn't have jurisdiction over his contract (EU). And there are probably some Spanish interests lining up against them to get their hands on Conti. This is turning into a Dan Brown novel.


Wouldn't there be more explosions?


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## Salsa_Lover (Jul 6, 2008)

Coolhand said:


> Is it the bikes or the condiment? Or the dance?
> 
> I like the first two, but always wondered which one you meant.


It's all three 

Salsa eater, dancer and ocassionally rider too ( I have a Salsa LaRaza, but don't ride it as often as I should )


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