# Carbon Clincher...what is the best value?



## stunzeed (Jul 27, 2007)

Looking to get into a set of carbon clinchers. I am currently using mavic elites and want soemthign lighter but durable. I dont live in the mountains so i wont be climbing much just need soemthing that wont bend easily ..I am 170 lbs


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## rruff (Feb 28, 2006)

Carbon clincher rims are really for aero... not low weight. Which do you really want? I guess you can build a light set with Reynolds MV32s, and even the DV46s aren't bad, but you will pay a lot. If you are on a budget I'd suggest a build with Nio30 aluminum rims, which will be much less expensive. Or if you want good aero the Zipp FP60 rims are the best value, but they'll end up weighing as much as your Elites, and maybe more.


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## DocVijay (Aug 16, 2007)

I have the SPinergy Stealth FCC's. They are not the lightest, but thay are not heavy either. They are exceptionally comfprtable because of the PBO spokes. I have had several sets of mountain and road wheels from Spinergy, and they are very durable. I have a set of Xyclones on my MTB, and 6 years later they are still 100% true.


Some people have complained about their customer service, but I have never had to call them. I have only sent one e-mail, which was answered quickly.


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## KMan (Feb 3, 2004)

*Token?*

I received a set of the Token C50's not 30 minutes ago. Weight measured at 1574g including rim strips - this is pretty close to my Mavic Ksyrium SL's - I think the actual weight of these were close to 1540...I'll double check when I swap the wheels.
Not bad for a 50mm carbon clincher. I need to stop by the shop to get some value extenders and will post back shortly with a ride report (I also picked up a set of the T50's for my cross bike).

Michael
www.MLKimages.com






stunzeed said:


> Looking to get into a set of carbon clinchers. I am currently using mavic elites and want soemthign lighter but durable. I dont live in the mountains so i wont be climbing much just need soemthing that wont bend easily ..I am 170 lbs


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## bikejunkie223 (Apr 5, 2005)

If you want light the Bontrager XXXlight and Aeolis 5.0 wheels are fantastic- not really cheap though- like 2k for either. I am down with Zipp's Flashpoint wheels for sure, and some of the Hed wheels are a good value as well.


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## DocVijay (Aug 16, 2007)

bikejunkie223 said:


> If you want light the Bontrager XXXlight and Aeolis 5.0 wheels are fantastic- not really cheap though- like 2k for either. I am down with Zipp's Flashpoint wheels for sure, and some of the Hed wheels are a good value as well.



I forgot to mention, you can get a new set of Spinergy Stealth FCC's for a grand on eBay. They are strong light, and half the price of the lighter wheels.


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## kbiker3111 (Nov 7, 2006)

I'm not sure why everyone else it recommending super expensive wheels like zipp and reynolds, but the description you gave was almost exactly for Mavic Cosmic SL's with the MP3 program. They retail for like $1500 and weigh about as much as the elites, but when you consider how bulletproof the rim is and the replacement program and how aero they are, they're a great upgrade.


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## Forrest Root (Dec 22, 2006)

The best value in a CF clincher is a CF tubular.


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## ethebull (May 30, 2007)

Forrest Root said:


> The best value in a CF clincher is a CF tubular.


No, the best value in a CF clincher is an aluminum clincher.


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## bikejunkie223 (Apr 5, 2005)

You could do these:
http://www.racycles.com/FlashPoint60-idv-6023-320.html

Or:
http://www.racycles.com/HEDAlpsBoth-idv-5224-323.html

Either would be a good choice for the money.

The best choice would be some lightly used Zipp 404's off of ebay- those wheels are the shiz!


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## flat_chipmunk (Jul 16, 2005)

Anyone had issues w/ flex or durability with Bontrager XXX Lite clinchers?


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## KMan (Feb 3, 2004)

*??*

This could be the worst post/reply I've read all day!

Michel





Forrest Root said:


> The best value in a CF clincher is a CF tubular.


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## bikejunkie223 (Apr 5, 2005)

flat_chipmunk said:


> Anyone had issues w/ flex or durability with Bontrager XXX Lite clinchers?


I am currently rocking a set of them right now. They aren't as stiff as say a Mavic Kysirium ES but they don't flex enough to rub brake pad either and I'm fairly large (5'9" 180lbs) and have a super stiff bike (Cannondale System 6) so if they had excessive flex or durability issues I likely would have found out after a year on them. The only real downside is if you ever do damage a rim you have to send them back to Bontrager for repairs- they won't send a dealer a new rim to be built up. I know this because a friend of mine crashed in a road race with a set and the front wheel is toast. The rear wheel was fine post-crash. The only other real downside to the XXXlight carbon clincher is the braking performance is not nearly as good as a quality machined brake track, but this is a common issue for cork on carbon braking surfaces- not limited to Bontrager. That's part of the appeal to me for Zipp 404 clinchers, or the Flashpoints or the HED's- they have an aluminum brake track so they will stop a lot better than an all carbon rim, though after riding some Bontrager Aeolis 5.0's nobody needs a deep section carbon rim unless you routinely ride at speeds sustained above 22mph- that's the tipping point where the aero properties kick in IMO.


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## flat_chipmunk (Jul 16, 2005)

bikejunkie223 said:


> I am currently rocking a set of them right now. They aren't as stiff as say a Mavic Kysirium ES but they don't flex enough to rub brake pad either and I'm fairly large (5'9" 180lbs) and have a super stiff bike (Cannondale System 6) so if they had excessive flex or durability issues I likely would have found out after a year on them. The only real downside is if you ever do damage a rim you have to send them back to Bontrager for repairs- they won't send a dealer a new rim to be built up. I know this because a friend of mine crashed in a road race with a set and the front wheel is toast. The rear wheel was fine post-crash. The only other real downside to the XXXlight carbon clincher is the braking performance is not nearly as good as a quality machined brake track, but this is a common issue for cork on carbon braking surfaces- not limited to Bontrager. That's part of the appeal to me for Zipp 404 clinchers, or the Flashpoints or the HED's- they have an aluminum brake track so they will stop a lot better than an all carbon rim, though after riding some Bontrager Aeolis 5.0's nobody needs a deep section carbon rim unless you routinely ride at speeds sustained above 22mph- that's the tipping point where the aero properties kick in IMO.


Thanks Bikejunkie-very good feedback


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## bikejunkie223 (Apr 5, 2005)

flat_chipmunk said:


> Thanks Bikejunkie-very good feedback


No problem man- I like the xxxlights a lot- they spin up faster than anything I have ridden and are really comfortable and light- that said if I did it over again I'd have gotten either Zipp 404's or Bontrager Aeolis 5.0's because the ride quality is the same (comfy compared to Kysiriums) and they spin up reasonably well, but in the flats hammering they are substantially faster- you can feel it take less effort to maintain speed once you get above that 22mph barrier- and they look badass....


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## DocVijay (Aug 16, 2007)

I got some Xentis Mark 1 wheels for my wife recently, and those things are really bada$$. They were pricey, but they weigh less than 2000 grams including cassette and tires.

Granted these are a bit extreme, on par with the Zipp 808 or 909 series.

But they are really fast, and they look really cool.


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## Retro Grouch (Apr 30, 2002)

*Another vote for Token*



KMan said:


> I received a set of the Token C50's not 30 minutes ago. Weight measured at 1574g including rim strips - this is pretty close to my Mavic Ksyrium SL's - I think the actual weight of these were close to 1540...I'll double check when I swap the wheels.
> Not bad for a 50mm carbon clincher. I need to stop by the shop to get some value extenders and will post back shortly with a ride report (I also picked up a set of the T50's for my cross bike).
> 
> Michael
> www.MLKimages.com


I’ve put about 200 miles on my Token C50 carbon clinchers and have been very pleased so far. They’re great on the flats and perform equally well on the climbs. I weight 140 pounds, and have not experienced any issues with the wheels going out of true after going down some pretty rough roads. Unlike my Nimble Fly carbon tubular wheelset, the Tokens have exposed nipples making any truing much easier. The wheels are a great value considering they come with 50 mm full carbon rims, Sapim bladed spokes and ceramic bearings. 

I look forward to KMan's report.


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## bikejunkie223 (Apr 5, 2005)

My SystemSix with Bontrager xxxlights:


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## KMan (Feb 3, 2004)

*Bottles....*

If your using clear or white bottles on your bike, they'll still be able to pick you up on Radar!  

Michael
www.MLKimages.com




Retro Grouch said:


> I’ve put about 200 miles on my Token C50 carbon clinchers and have been very pleased so far. They’re great on the flats and perform equally well on the climbs. I weight 140 pounds, and have not experienced any issues with the wheels going out of true after going down some pretty rough roads. Unlike my Nimble Fly carbon tubular wheelset, the Tokens have exposed nipples making any truing much easier. The wheels are a great value considering they come with 50 mm full carbon rims, Sapim bladed spokes and ceramic bearings.
> 
> I look forward to KMan's report.


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## breakawaycoach (May 1, 2003)

The best value per buck is the Reynolds Attack. I don't know any other full carbon clincher anywhere near $1200.


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## DIRT BOY (Aug 22, 2002)

Retro Grouch said:


> I’ve put about 200 miles on my Token C50 carbon clinchers and have been very pleased so far. They’re great on the flats and perform equally well on the climbs. I weight 140 pounds, and have not experienced any issues with the wheels going out of true after going down some pretty rough roads. Unlike my Nimble Fly carbon tubular wheelset, the Tokens have exposed nipples making any truing much easier. The wheels are a great value considering they come with 50 mm full carbon rims, Sapim bladed spokes and ceramic bearings.
> 
> I look forward to KMan's report.


How is braking performance? Are you using TOKEN pads or another brand/type?


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## cotocalicyclist (Feb 18, 2006)

+1 for the Reynolds attack.

The original poster was looking for VALUE. I don't have personal experience with these wheels, but if I was on a budget and wanted a fairly light carbon clincher with decent aero properties, these would be the wheels for me. You can probably get them new for 1000$

Here is a CN review:
http://www.cyclingnews.com/tech.php?id=tech/2007/reviews/reynolds_attack07


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## Jim Nazium (Feb 3, 2004)

kbiker3111 said:


> I... but the description you gave was almost exactly for Mavic Cosmic SL's with the MP3 program.


These wheels play digital music files? :skep:


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## DocVijay (Aug 16, 2007)

breakawaycoach said:


> The best value per buck is the Reynolds Attack. I don't know any other full carbon clincher anywhere near $1200.


I got my Spinergy Stealth FCC's (Full Carbon Clincher) for $1000.


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## kbiker3111 (Nov 7, 2006)

Jim Nazium said:


> These wheels play digital music files? :skep:


Cute.

http://www.mp3-mavic.com/mp3details.asp So you get a two year warranty, sorta like those warranty's you buy for your DVD player at the electronics store. 

The Carbones are generally considered bulletproof anyway, so I'm not sure how badly you want a warranty, unless you crash a lot.


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## gambo2166 (Oct 20, 2004)

For about 1200 bucks you could get the new attack full carbon Reynolds.

http://www.reynoldscycling.com/index.php?p_matter=products_wheels_attack

http://www.westernbikeworks.com/productdetail.asp?p=REATK


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## noavg55 (Jan 2, 2003)

you can get a pair of soul s5.5 for $770 there 55 mm at bikesoul.com


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## Retro Grouch (Apr 30, 2002)

*Token C50 Braking*



DIRT BOY said:


> How is braking performance? Are you using TOKEN pads or another brand/type?


I am using the tan colored brake pads that came with the wheelset. Overall, the braking performance is very good. The pads in conjunction with Zero Gravity Ti brakes provide respectable stopping power and modulation. However, it cannot compare to the performance of an aluminum braking surface. . In contrast, I use to have Koolstop green pads and Cane Creek 200SL brakes stopping a pair of Nimble Flys on my Trek OCLV. That combo made for a scary descent especially when you could start smelling the pad compound starting to burn with no resulting decrease in speed. 

Scary stuff!


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## KMan (Feb 3, 2004)

*How is the stiffness on your C50's?*

I just got my Tokens mounted on the bike and noticed when I grab the wheel I can move it back and forth into the brake pads. Wondering if they may be undertensioned. How is your set?

I might drop mine off at the LBS just to double check the tension.

Michael






Retro Grouch said:


> I’ve put about 200 miles on my Token C50 carbon clinchers and have been very pleased so far. They’re great on the flats and perform equally well on the climbs. I weight 140 pounds, and have not experienced any issues with the wheels going out of true after going down some pretty rough roads. Unlike my Nimble Fly carbon tubular wheelset, the Tokens have exposed nipples making any truing much easier. The wheels are a great value considering they come with 50 mm full carbon rims, Sapim bladed spokes and ceramic bearings.
> 
> I look forward to KMan's report.


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## Schneiderguy (Jan 9, 2005)

What about the Hed Jets-50mm, alloy braking rim, weigh around 1630 grams. Retail i think is $1300.


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## stunzeed (Jul 27, 2007)

So let me ask this..I ride on flat land since i live in florida their are no hills or mountains. It does get gusty since I do ride near the beach. Would a lighter wheel or a more aero wheel be my best choice?


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## DocVijay (Aug 16, 2007)

stunzeed said:


> So let me ask this..I ride on flat land since i live in florida their are no hills or mountains. It does get gusty since I do ride near the beach. Would a lighter wheel or a more aero wheel be my best choice?


I also live in Florida. I opted for aero rims. While lighter rims are always good, aero is better for the higher speeds that you can maintain here.

Also, I have not expereinced any negative effects from the wind while riding.


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## Retro Grouch (Apr 30, 2002)

*Rockin' Wheels*



KMan said:


> I just got my Tokens mounted on the bike and noticed when I grab the wheel I can move it back and forth into the brake pads. Wondering if they may be undertensioned. How is your set?
> 
> I might drop mine off at the LBS just to double check the tension.
> 
> Michael


I didn't notice the _side-to-side_ play in the wheels until you mentioned it. It's not too bad, but I wouldn't want it to get any more loose. I'll keep an eye on it. 

In the meantime, let me know if you do take your wheels to your LBS and what they say about them.

P.S.

Please post or PM a pic of the wheels mounted on your bike. I would like to see it.


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## bikejunkie223 (Apr 5, 2005)

Honestly I think Mavic Kysirium ES's are worse in wind (a crosswind) than Bontrager Aeolis 5.0's- so I would go deep section anyway, especially if there isn't any extended vertical nastiness around. But like I said earlier, unless you spend a lot of time riding above 22mph or so you are really just carrying extra weight- the aero benefits don't kick in until about that speed. A good compromise is a wheel like a Rolf Prima Vigor- they are really light, spin up faster than every wheel I have tried except my xXxlight's and are a good value compared to full carbon rims. Check tham here:
http://www.rolfprima.com/products/vigor.html


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## DIRT BOY (Aug 22, 2002)

stunzeed said:


> So let me ask this..I ride on flat land since i live in florida their are no hills or mountains. It does get gusty since I do ride near the beach. Would a lighter wheel or a more aero wheel be my best choice?


I ride near the beach as well (Key Biscayne) and solo so I was thinking deep rims will help. BUT I have found out that 500mm+ rims are VERY hard to handle in the crosswinds there especially going down the bridge.

I am thinking down here het are really an Tri wheels not road riding. Then again I don't race and never will. 

I think 38mm rims will be a good compromise if I choose that route. But after having a few huge gust blow the Zipp I was riding and watched a few Tri guys have issues a few months back I am starting to wonder if the Aero wheels are right for me down here.


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## ewitz (Sep 11, 2002)

DIRT BOY said:


> I ride near the beach as well (Key Biscayne) and solo so I was thinking deep rims will help. BUT I have found out that 500mm+ rims are VERY hard to handle in the crosswinds there especially going down the bridge.
> 
> I am thinking down here het are really an Tri wheels not road riding. Then again I don't race and never will.
> 
> I think 38mm rims will be a good compromise if I choose that route. But after having a few huge gust blow the Zipp I was riding and watched a few Tri guys have issues a few months back I am starting to wonder if the Aero wheels are right for me down here.


I spend a month in Key Biscayne every winter and have not found a 46mm wheel to be too much of a detriment. You spend only a few minutes on the Rickenbacker so I would not let the winds there determine which wheels I choose. And with the speeds on the local rides, like the Don Pan group ride, aero will trump weight.


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## stunzeed (Jul 27, 2007)

The reynolds attacks look like thay may be a good option, not too spendy $1200 and somewhat light at that around 1500g I dont think I need a crazy light wheelset but something liek the attacks which I think could be a good compromise between weight/cost/and aero may be a good option. 

I do not ride much in the 21+ range but I am somewhat new so right now I am riding in the 18-20 range which will hopefully become the 21+ in the near future.


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## DIRT BOY (Aug 22, 2002)

ewitz said:


> I spend a month in Key Biscayne every winter and have not found a 46mm wheel to be too much of a detriment. You spend only a few minutes on the Rickenbacker so I would not let the winds there determine which wheels I choose. And with the speeds on the local rides, like the Don Pan group ride, aero will trump weight.


Yah, but in that pack unless your in front, aero won't matter. Also if a crosswind comes in very har4d and someone can't control that wheel, down goes the pack.


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## Cheers! (Aug 20, 2006)

Retro Grouch said:


> I’ve put about 200 miles on my Token C50 carbon clinchers and have been very pleased so far. They’re great on the flats and perform equally well on the climbs. I weight 140 pounds, and have not experienced any issues with the wheels going out of true after going down some pretty rough roads. Unlike my Nimble Fly carbon tubular wheelset, the Tokens have exposed nipples making any truing much easier. The wheels are a great value considering they come with 50 mm full carbon rims, Sapim bladed spokes and ceramic bearings.
> 
> I look forward to KMan's report.



You don't need to use the special token brake pad holder with your zero gravity brakes?


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## Moutain2Road (Jun 19, 2007)

+1 for the Mavic Cosmic Carbone SL
I also have a set of the Mavic ES and increased aerodynamics of the cosmics more than makes up for the weight difference. Even on hilly rides I still average ~1mph faster with the Cosmics, although the ceramic bearings may play a factor.


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## Retro Grouch (Apr 30, 2002)

*Token Pads on ZG Brakes*



Cheers! said:


> You don't need to use the special token brake pad holder with your zero gravity brakes?


Here's a photo of my rear brake. The Token pads fit right into the Zero Gravity holders fairly snug.


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## KMan (Feb 3, 2004)

*Pads*

I was able to use my Dura-Ace brake holders on the front wheel with the Token C50's and just use the Token supplied pads. The rear wheels I did have to use the Token supplied brake holder and the adjustment is not 100% - I think it needs to be looked at from an engineering standpoint. There was no way to adjust the pads so the fit flush with the rim. Every single time I tightened the brake, the brakes would move causing the pads to contact the rim at an angle. In a few rides the pads will wear so this is not a problem, but I'm pretty anal about things so this bothered me.

Michael
www.MLKimages.com




Retro Grouch said:


> Here's a photo of my rear brake. The Token pads fit right into the Zero Gravity holders fairly snug.


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