# High tension/Low cadence training to gain speed...



## rbart4506 (Aug 4, 2004)

Does this make sense or are there better ways...

I ride with some guys that believe longer (~10min) inclined (2%-5%) grinding intervals (~50rpm) are the way to build strength and therefore speed.

Personally I think it's a way to do joint damage and you're better off doing shorter intervals at a higher cadence.

Then again I'm new at this training for racing thing...


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## JohnStonebarger (Jan 22, 2004)

Some recent research seems to support low cadence/heavy resisitance riding, but it's inconclusive at best. There are also some well regarded science types (like Andrew Coogan) who think it's bunk.

I'll keep watching that research develop -- mainly wondering if "strength" work that is sufficiently cycling-specific might somehow pay off. In the mean time, though, the broader principle of specificity would suggest that working at low cadence will best train you to ride at low cadence, so unless you have a very steep hill to climb without appropriate gearing, you're probably right about doing intervals at a more typical cadence.


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## flyboy50 (Mar 13, 2007)

I've been hearing the same thing, although 50 rpm sounds extreme. 

I'm most comfortable around 105, so when I do 20 minute threshold intervals I sometimes push a bigger gear and keep the cadence around 80-85 (feels really slow). I'm starting to feel a difference, now I have more strength and torque. It's also nice because my power readings are a lot easier to pace at low cadence. If I'm spinning at 110 the numbers are all over the place.

I guess it's good to mix things up. Do some low cadence stuff, and some high cadence stuff. :thumbsup:


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## rbart4506 (Aug 4, 2004)

20 min intervals @80-85 makes sense to me, I would equate that to a TT type interval. It's the whole grinding at 50 that has me thinking recipe for joint damage unless you already for the strength to push that gear...


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## Hank Stamper (Sep 9, 2009)

What ever the benefits, if there are any, wouldn't be worth the risk in my opinion.

But as to if it helps develop speed I'd have to guess that depends on the individual. Somone who gets most of their speed from brute power would probably be helped by doing that (until they blew a knee).....the person who gets their speed from a more sensable pedaling cadance would probably be building up brute strength for which they would have no use.


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## Undecided (Apr 2, 2007)

rbart4506 said:


> Does this make sense or are there better ways...
> 
> I ride with some guys that believe longer (~10min) inclined (2%-5%) grinding intervals (~50rpm) are the way to build strength and therefore speed.
> 
> ...


As a very small component of my overall program, I do a few sets where I go from a few minutes of the low cadence stuff to an equal amount of high cadence (it just happens to be that the low-cadence work is around 60 rpms and the high is around 120 rpms). It's the switching between them that I'm a little more interested in than just the low-cadence work. I only do that once a week for a few weeks, twice a year, although in the past I have done longer sets (up to 20 minutes) of low cadence ~LT work and never had any joint problems, FWIW.


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## Creakyknees (Sep 21, 2003)

If force development and muscular endurance are limiters for a rider, I could see this stuff helping. Just keep in mind that we all have different limiters; it's better to understand your own strenghts and weaknesses and train accordingly.


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## PhysioJoe (May 6, 2008)

This past winter, my wednesday workout on the trainer would be 10x30 second "stomps" (heavy gear, 60 rpm, ~450w), straight into 5-6 x 8 minute lower cadence intervals, with 2 minutes between each. These were done at or above my 1 hour power, around 70 rpm.

These were a leg crusher, but I designed the workout to address my weaknesses, and it worked. I definitely wouldnt have gone below 70, but thats too personal to assume some other people couldnt go lower.

-Physiojoe


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## jmess (Aug 24, 2006)

I was pounding my way up some 8-13% grade hills today only able to spin in the 50s on the really steep stuff. I have a triple and even with a 30x25 gear I don't think I will every be able to spin 70+ on a 10% and above grade. For an older guy I am in pretty good shape and seem to hold my own on big climbs. My ability to sustain higher cadence on lessor climbs has improved but I seem to have reached a plateau with the steeper stuff. I am wondering if I should really worry about increasing my cadence and focus more on what feels comfortable.


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## Alex_Simmons/RST (Jan 12, 2008)

rbart4506 said:


> I ride with some guys that believe longer (~10min) inclined (2%-5%) grinding intervals (~50rpm) are the way to build strength and therefore speed.


The forces even at these cadences are still way too low (significantly sub-maximal) to induce changes in strength (max force production ability). But it's a moot point since strength is not a limiter in endurance cycling anyway.

If they gain benefit, it's because they are riding extended periods at a higher power, not because of the gearing they happen to have chosen.

It's the classic logical fallacy of confusing correlation with causation.


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## rbart4506 (Aug 4, 2004)

I noticed that about the power...

I have yet to do a formal FTP test with my PT, but my 20 min power is somewhere around 200watts (I'm a little guy). When I'm doing those intervals I see my power maxing out at maybe 235 watts during the steepest section. I'm pretty certain that using a more rational gear, allowing for a higher cadence, would get me more sustained power...

That also explains why riders will pass me during these intervals that I leave in the dust when we ride this section at a normal rate...


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## wim (Feb 28, 2005)

rbart4506 said:


> the way to build strength and therefore speed.


Simply put, the problem is the word _therefore_. Strength does not necessarily equal speed.


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