# WTF happened to steel bikes?????



## ttug (May 14, 2004)

OK, I am not a material guy. In short, I do not get misty about a specfic magical BS scenario about Ti, or aluminum or steel or carbon, however, I do have a question after doing some research. CAUTION, this is a tad wordy.

My medical sitiation has improved, I am getting back on the trainer, feeling TIRED, but OK, I guess in about a year, I will be ABOUT where I was before my body betrayed me. No problem all is good. Its nice to feel the legs say hello again and while its HARD, its fun. 

The bills have pretty much drained any free cash, so I thought, why not take a while, and just research bikes etc etc and see WTF has changed over the last 3 yerars which seems like a total blur, but hey, why not,

My question, WTF are the steel bikes? You know, thjose lugged retro machines that look cool and are pretty much what I grew up with? My "new bike" will probably be the CAAD9, Cannondale, and this was after finding out that since I have a mortgage and want the kids to at least attempt college, lugged steel is not in my new bike future WHY?

Is steel more expensive now? Did aliens take over, eat all the steel and **** carbon? Did everyoen abandon steel, and in the haste, JACK UP the pricing? 

WHY is a steel bike no longer cheap (er)

Again, this is or morbid curiosity for those of you who live to let all of the un initiated into the world of wow, steel sure is expensive......

As a note, I loved the CAAD 9, rode great and of course is not steel which is fine by me. I just miss lugged steel...........


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## Retro Grouch (Apr 30, 2002)

Carbon is the current flavor teasing the collective palate these days. I own two carbon and one steel bike and I have to say the steel rig is my favorite for long, lazy rides.


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## SilverStar (Jan 21, 2008)

Define "cheap steel"...many bike manufacturers (Kona and Bianchi and Masi come to mind just now) make one or a couple of steel-framed models that aren't frighteningly expensive...at least not as expensive as their carbon counterparts. It just takes a little more searching is all.


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## ttug (May 14, 2004)

*definition of cheap*



SilverStar said:


> Define "cheap steel"...many bike manufacturers (Kona and Bianchi and Masi come to mind just now) make one or a couple of steel-framed models that aren't frighteningly expensive...at least not as expensive as their carbon counterparts. It just takes a little more searching is all.



Under 2 grand


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## veloduffer (Aug 26, 2004)

Carbon fiber is much cheaper to produce, both material and labor costs are significantly lower than steel and titanium. Steel is now produced primarily for fixed gear/single speed bikes and custom road bikes. The custom road bike market has grown quite a bit, as there are more new builders each year at the NAHBS (North Am Handbuilt Bicycle Show), which is in Austin later this month. Check out the NAHBS list of exhibitors - quite impressive and its more of a US phenomenon.


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## wooglin (Feb 22, 2002)

Steel isn't the issue. There's lots of those on the market. It's the lugged part that'll kill you. 

I like the Jamis Quest. Except for the sloping top tube.


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## rubbersoul (Mar 1, 2010)

ttug said:


> OK, I am not a material guy. In short, I do not get misty about a specfic magical BS scenario about Ti, or aluminum or steel or carbon, however, I do have a question after doing some research. CAUTION, this is a tad wordy.
> 
> My medical sitiation has improved, I am getting back on the trainer, feeling TIRED, but OK, I guess in about a year, I will be ABOUT where I was before my body betrayed me. No problem all is good. Its nice to feel the legs say hello again and while its HARD, its fun.
> 
> ...


were you in a coma for the last 20 years?


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## rx-79g (Sep 14, 2010)

You can get a custom made steel frame for well under $2K. You can get an Asian made lugged frame for $500. And there are plenty of tig'd steel frames that are light and stiff. And Raleigh is offering complete steel bikes.

Steel is not the most common frame material anymore. But it isn't hard to find. You're not looking, or asking the right questions.


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## LC (Jan 28, 2004)

If you want cheap, but still fairly high end steel tubes then look at Soma frames.


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## ttug (May 14, 2004)

*nope*



rubbersoul said:


> were you in a coma for the last 20 years?


Parkinsans, last 2 years, and the wifeys cancer......new bike shopping, was not on the list....go figure

Ever ride hard when you cant stop shaking, I have, it sucks, you wreck, you get angry, resentful, then you take meds, do the scans, hopefully get better. Key is, stop denying when the body says OH HELL NO, then, you listen


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## Zitter (Jan 5, 2011)

Raleigh has several steel road bike offerings in their 2011 line up. I actually own a 2011 Grand Prix.

http://www.raleighusa.com/bikes/steel-road/


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## ttug (May 14, 2004)

*good inputs*

Raleigh and Masi appear to have some rather cool new bike options. Lugs as well. woo hoo

Hmmmmmmm

I very much appreciate the input here folks


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## Mike Overly (Sep 28, 2005)

In the pro racing/consumer marketing scheme of things, aluminum took the market from steel in the 90s and carbon took the market from aluminum in the past decade. Today carbon defines the mid-to-high-end of the mass market and aluminum the mid-to-low.

This leaves hand-made steel boutique-y and pretty expensive with finished frames sometimes exceeding the price of hand-made ti frames. Any frame tech that sees relatively low small-shop production is going to cost $$.

But as others have pointed out there's still reasonably-priced steel out there. You're probably going to find it's welded in Asia, but I doubt this matters from a quality standpoint. I have steel bikes that were made in Japan, Taiwan, China, Italy, and the U.S. and the build quality on all is excellent.

EBay remains a great place to find classic steel at great prices, and Bikesdirect also has some reasonable steel nowadays (not a bad setup here if you can bear to be seen on a triple). IMO no reason to demand lugs except for aesthetics. A tigged 853, etc. frame will deliver the goods if you decide you'd rather risk rust over continuously-fatiguing aluminum, cracked ti, or exploding carbon .


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## rydbyk (Feb 17, 2010)

I used to love the way steel bikes looked. I put 1500 miles on a handmade Raleigh in a month of riding in Germany when I was 17. I love the way they rode too. I have a steel touring bike in the stable now.

Today, I just think the narrow diameter tubing looks funny. I can't get over it.

We have a hand-made bike show coming up here in San Diego. I am assuming almost everything there will be for steel lovers.. A lot of 29er mountain bikes are still using steel. Niner makes the steel one that I have. Reynolds 853!


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## laffeaux (Dec 12, 2001)

Raleigh is making some nice looking steel frames too.

If you don't mind TIGed frame Soma, Surley, Handsom, and Salsa are making nicer cheaper frames. Rivendell makes nice lugged bikes that are a bit more spendy. Staying below $2K for a custom steel bike (with parts) might be tough, but if you own have components to put on it...


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## SystemShock (Jun 14, 2008)

Soma Stanyan is a nice lugged steel frameset for about $650.

Likely could build it up with some SRAM Apex or Rival and have a pretty nice bike for under $2K.


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## shudson16 (Mar 20, 2009)

SystemShock said:


> Soma Stanyan is a nice lugged steel frameset for about $650.
> 
> Likely could build it up with some SRAM Apex or Rival and have a pretty nice bike for under $2K.


+1 ......
here's my Stanyan. Frame and fork was ~$700. Nice ride,smooth and responsive. My everyday bike now, commuting,weekends and hopefully some light touring later this year.


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## Maverick (Apr 29, 2004)

here's a lugged steel bike from '96.

ignore the modern components  
it's a pig @ 17.88 lbs

more pics available at the Merckx gallery..

https://forums.roadbikereview.com/showthread.php?t=70726&page=19

cheers!


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## Touch0Gray (May 29, 2003)

ttug......check these out

http://www.bianchiusa.com/bikes/gran-fondo/

Unfortunately the Dolomiti is so blasted expensive (may be available as a frameset though)


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## ttug (May 14, 2004)

*custom, maybe not*



laffeaux said:


> Raleigh is making some nice looking steel frames too.
> 
> If you don't mind TIGed frame Soma, Surley, Handsom, and Salsa are making nicer cheaper frames. Rivendell makes nice lugged bikes that are a bit more spendy. Staying below $2K for a custom steel bike (with parts) might be tough, but if you own have components to put on it...



I took a peek at the sites and I like the way the Raligh has a lugged frame for a pretty decent cost. Also, the Masi looked slick.

I am ~6'2" with a 32 inseam however, I do not like having my upper body stretched out. The C to C top tube measurement works for me, although lots of folks have said, I should go above a 57, I dont like the feel of anything larger.

As to custom, thats waaaay larger than my budget for certain


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## otiebob (Jun 25, 2002)

Check out gvhbikes.com. Inexpensive lugged, Italian-built frames from Viner. They also have Soma, Landsharks (awesome), and some KHS in Reynolds 853 it looks like...


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## Creakyknees (Sep 21, 2003)

Lugged, not custom, Riv, $2k f/f, they claim $2400 for complete bike.

http://www.rivbike.com/products/show/roadeo/50-618

Me, I ride my Cdale, bought used. Used bikes can be great deals. But you knew that already.


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## rockdude (Apr 3, 2008)

Here is what you need, and I can be yours. Lug bikes are back in style but most are not mass producted. 

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=110637053355&ssPageName=STRK:MEUSX:IT


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## vladvm (May 4, 2010)

Steel is everywhere, but good lugged steel is rare. One example is Tange Pretige tubing in the 90's... see mine here
http://www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected]/sets/72157625826763946/


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## Mel Erickson (Feb 3, 2004)

Check out GVH Bikes http://www.gvhbikes.com/ They have a number of steel frames, including lugged steel like the Viner Competiton ($500). Good people to deal with and they'll set you up with a complete bike or just a frame.


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## tconrady (May 1, 2007)

This was a bit over a year and a half ago but Bigrider got a custom lugged frame and fork from Wanta for under a grand.

http://forums.roadbikereview.com/showthread.php?t=183854&highlight=wanta


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## Goodbarsix (Aug 5, 2009)

I just bought a 2011 Masi Gran Criterium...lugged steel and under $2k


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## Hank Stamper (Sep 9, 2009)

As far a mass produced goes I don't think steel makes sense from a business standpoint.

If you want to market cheaper bikes Aluminum is the way to go.

For more expensive bikes carbon is cheaper to make (I'm pretty sure), easier, and lighter (customers like light).

Nevermind quality.....that doesn't have much to do with marketing and profitability.

I think that's why steel bikes are kind of a niche market now.


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## Doggity (Mar 10, 2006)

Soma, Surly, Raleigh, and Jamis all make very affordable steel frame bikes, sans the lugs.
My 2010 Jamis Satellite Sport was a grand total of $625.00. Still, around 1K even with all the parts I replaced. They're out there....


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## tarwheel2 (Jul 7, 2005)

*steel is real*

I paid $900 for my Merckx Corsa 01, $400 for my De Bernardi SL and $600 for my Bob Jackson World Tour -- all nice lugged steel frames and brand new. Lugged steel frames are still out there, you just have to look for them. Some of the TIG steel frames are also very nice, such as Gunnar, and reasonably priced.


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## ttug (May 14, 2004)

*question*



tarwheel2 said:


> I paid $900 for my Merckx Corsa 01, $400 for my De Bernardi SL and $600 for my Bob Jackson World Tour -- all nice lugged steel frames and brand new. Lugged steel frames are still out there, you just have to look for them. Some of the TIG steel frames are also very nice, such as Gunnar, and reasonably priced.


Where did you get these.

If I cant sit on the bike , I dont buy it, just curious.


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## tarwheel2 (Jul 7, 2005)

Bought the Merckx from a dealer, and it was one of the last 01's imported to the US. Bought the DeBe from another cycle shop that had advertised it on eBay and got no bids. Ordered the BJ direct from England. You can still order Bob Jacksons direct from the factory, and they'll paint them in just about any color for no extra charge. eBay is a great place to find steel lug frames, if you are patient and know what you're looking for.


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## ttug (May 14, 2004)

*even better!*



Doggity said:


> Soma, Surly, Raleigh, and Jamis all make very affordable steel frame bikes, sans the lugs.
> My 2010 Jamis Satellite Sport was a grand total of $625.00. Still, around 1K even with all the parts I replaced. They're out there....


I checked out Rivendell and the closest location is Bristol VA, 360+ miles away....OTOH, Raleigh as a bike brand is a 25 minute drive

Both have some rather cool looking frames, but as always, ride will be king


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## Fullcollapse (Sep 21, 2010)

ttug said:


> WHY is a steel bike no longer cheap (er)


https://a2.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hph...856938107598_1365230682_2140082_3989941_n.jpg

My 2010 Jamis Satellite Sport... I will be looking to upgrade to a 105 setup soonish, but in the meantime... orig cost was $600, upgraded the wheelset/saddle/stem/bars/tires/brakes... final cost was $1600ish. I love it.


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## Mel Erickson (Feb 3, 2004)

It would look soooo much better with a horizontal top tube. Reminds me a lot of my Raleigh Professional, cept for the compact frame. This one isn't mine but it's pretty close.


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## ttug (May 14, 2004)

*appreciate it*



rx-79g said:


> You can get a custom made steel frame for well under $2K. You can get an Asian made lugged frame for $500. And there are plenty of tig'd steel frames that are light and stiff. And Raleigh is offering complete steel bikes.
> 
> Steel is not the most common frame material anymore. But it isn't hard to find. You're not looking, or asking the right questions.


Did you happen to have a link?

Appreciate the reply


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## kykr13 (Apr 12, 2008)

This thread pertains to my interests.

A lot of these have 1" head tubes, and some are/might be threaded. Is this something you (collectively) would buy without any issue, only if the price was right for the frame set, or totally avoid?


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## ttug (May 14, 2004)

*not considered*



kykr13 said:


> This thread pertains to my interests.
> 
> A lot of these have 1" head tubes, and some are/might be threaded. Is this something you (collectively) would buy without any issue, only if the price was right for the frame set, or totally avoid?


If it feels right in the ride, it could be baby sh!t tan and smell like grape jelly with cute orange stripes. I would ride it.....as long as it had lugs......


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## Mel Erickson (Feb 3, 2004)

ttug said:


> Where did you get these.
> 
> If I cant sit on the bike , I dont buy it, just curious.


Go to a LBS that takes trade ins. I got a pristine Schwinn Circuit at mine for $225. Original tires with the nibs still intact. Original Shimano Sante components. Older steel frames can be easily updated with newer component groups if that's what you want or just ridden with the older groups.


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## SystemShock (Jun 14, 2008)

shudson16 said:


> Here's my Stanyan. Frame and fork was ~$700. Nice ride,smooth and responsive. My everyday bike now, commuting,weekends and hopefully some light touring later this year.



Nice bike_! _:thumbsup: 

I'm actually not usually a fan of chromed lugs, but it sure works with the black frame. Liked the Stanyan from Day 1.
.


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## Touch0Gray (May 29, 2003)

kykr13 said:


> This thread pertains to my interests.
> 
> A lot of these have 1" head tubes, and some are/might be threaded. Is this something you (collectively) would buy without any issue, only if the price was right for the frame set, or totally avoid?


you know, I prefer a threaded headtube, headset and stem when it comes to looks. It is really nice to be able to dial it in without replacing stems!


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## FSonicSmith (Jan 2, 2003)

First-I commend you on fighting to cope with your Parkinsons and getting back to cycling. 
Second-I hear where you are coming from. 
It's actually kind of surprising that the extent of steel options "is what it is". 
Take a look at Torelli. They still believe in high quality steel. 
Gunnar-ditto. Tig welded rather than lugged, but it's the ride that counts. 
Are lugs really an important part of your preference? Someone mentioned Landshark. I love Landsharks, and mine is among my two favorites out of ten bikes, but Landsharks are most fillet brazed. 
And let me digress for a minute-back in the heyday of steel, there were an awful lot of lugged steel bikes that looked nice but rode like crap. It takes someone who really knows what they are doing to make a frame with steel and lugs that rides with the best attributes steel has to offer. Even then you can get some duds. I have a custom JP Weigle that has never ridden all that well for me. It sure looks purdy. It took Peter nine months to build it after a year of waiting for him to get started. John Slawta built my Landshark in a matter of days and it rides beautifully. And that leads into the problem with steel-it's almost impossible to build steel frames in mass production and get good results. Carbon offers a lot of advantages for the manufacturers-it's cheap to produce and fairly predictable/uniform in terms of end-product. Molds will do that. You can't mold the ohter materials. The downside is that it's not very durable, but the manufacturers would rather handle warranty claims than go back to labor intensive manufacturing or artisan craftsmanship. Artisan equals hairshirt in big company talk.


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## rx-79g (Sep 14, 2010)

ttug said:


> Did you happen to have a link?
> 
> Appreciate the reply


I don't know if you meant $2K for the frame, or whole bike. Here's some stuff that is in between:
This guy has a bunch of new old stock lugged Bassos for cheap:
http://cgi.ebay.com/1993-Basso-Gap-...20677588235?pt=Road_Bikes&hash=item336168c50b

The Soma Stanyan frame and fork: http://www.outsideoutfitters.com/p-...gged-road-frameset.aspx?utm_source=googlebase

Fully custom lugged frame:
http://www.banjobicycles.com/prices.html

English production:
http://www.merciancycles.co.uk/frames/20/professional

No, you probably aren't going to be able to test ride everything. Sometimes you have to push the "I believe" button and assume that professional frame builders know how to make a bicycle, then get fitted so you know what size to get and how to equip it. Otherwise, go with the Raleighs, which you may be able to try at a dealer. The Tiagra Grand Prix is around $1200 complete, and the Record Ace with Ultegra is $1900. Both Reynolds 520 lugged frames, the current equivalent of 531.


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## kykr13 (Apr 12, 2008)

Touch0Gray said:


> you know, I prefer a threaded headtube, headset and stem when it comes to looks. It is really nice to be able to dial it in without replacing stems!


You're not helping.


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## rx-79g (Sep 14, 2010)

FSonicSmith said:


> And that leads into the problem with steel-it's almost impossible to build steel frames in mass production and get good results. Carbon offers a lot of advantages for the manufacturers-it's cheap to produce and fairly predictable/uniform in terms of end-product. Molds will do that. You can't mold the ohter materials. The downside is that it's not very durable, but the manufacturers would rather handle warranty claims than go back to labor intensive manufacturing or artisan craftsmanship. Artisan equals hairshirt in big company talk.


I'm sorry, but this is pure hogwash. The majority of bicycles ever built were "production steel", and people have loved them for most of a century. Trek built a dynasty on automated lugged steel frames. I realize this is your opinion, but it seems to ignore reality. Production bikes didn't become uniform only in the last 10 years as carbon production ramped up.


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## krisdrum (Oct 29, 2007)

Not lugged, but fillet braze, Curtlo will do a custom steel frame for under a grand. With a fork for around $1200.


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## Henry Chinaski (Feb 3, 2004)

None of these are lugged, but...

Don't forget Gunnar (built by Waterford)

http://gunnarbikes.com

Or an even more affordable way to get a Waterford

http://www.benscycle.net/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=612_2235&products_id=11744

For the money it's hard to beat Surly and Salsa, both owned by QBP, so just about any LBS can order them for you

http://www.surlybikes.com/

http://www.salsacycles.com/


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## FSonicSmith (Jan 2, 2003)

rx-79g said:


> I'm sorry, but this is pure hogwash. The majority of bicycles ever built were "production steel", and people have loved them for most of a century. Trek built a dynasty on automated lugged steel frames. I realize this is your opinion, but it seems to ignore reality. Production bikes didn't become uniform only in the last 10 years as carbon production ramped up.


It is hogwash to you, truth to me. Just because Trek "built a dynasty" on them didn't make them good bikes. I had a couple of those Trek mass produced lugged bikes and they were not great. They were acceptable, and barely that. Folks bought them because they were what was available and they were marketed well. Once Trek got big, they moved production of their steel frames overseas and the bikes were mediocre at best. Right around that time their better frames were being offered in aluminum. Then came the aluminum/carbon mix-the ubiquitous green Trek with carbon stays and fork. And then came OCLV, but I digress. How many of those old steel mass production frames do you see being ridden now? Not many. They were not only heavy, but they felt dead as a doornail too. The vintage steel that is still ridden by anyone more enthusiastic than college students looking for something to get to class with are inevetably handbuilt frames. Again, you may not have read what I wrote carefully-I love steel and prefer it to any other material-when it's done right.


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## bikesdirect (Sep 9, 2006)

Steel is having a small come back and I am sure you will see more choices during 2011 & 2012

Most will be the type of frames you see with Surly, Salsa, Jamis, Schwinn, Specialized, etc - 4130 and 4130DB in tig

We are attempting to bring back some lugged steel; but it is expensive and people do not see the real advantage

Lots of road bikes in hi-grade steel will be around in the next year from $300 to $1500

Over $1500; Ti seems to soak up the customers that might be interested in steel


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## ttug (May 14, 2004)

*so far...*



Henry Chinaski said:


> None of these are lugged, but...
> 
> Don't forget Gunnar (built by Waterford)
> 
> ...


The Rivendell also had a waterford frame hmmmm....Thanks to you folks who maintained their grip on the bike world, I think what I have learned can be summarized as follows:

Be patient and look. There area afew shops who I am sure wouild let me try on a bike or 2 locally. 

Meanwhile, I can spend the next 12 to 18 months saving bucks and teaching my legs how to suffer again as well as drop some lbs.....Me likey alot

Thanks again all and I very much would like to asee any and all ideas. Apparently, I m not alone in this want to ride the bike you saw as a kid or had racing ability crowd. My bud who intro'd me to bikes WAAAAAAAAAY back in the EARLY 80's had a mean machine and my loaner from him was a dream...that was then..oh well


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## Mel Erickson (Feb 3, 2004)

kykr13 said:


> This thread pertains to my interests.
> 
> A lot of these have 1" head tubes, and some are/might be threaded. Is this something you (collectively) would buy without any issue, only if the price was right for the frame set, or totally avoid?


I wouldn't hesitate to buy a frame that uses a threaded fork. Heck, I've got several. The Schwinn Circuit I mentioned earlier has a threaded fork and it's one of my favorites. 1 1/8" threadless wasn't invented because it was better. It's easier and cheaper to manufacture. The only thing I like better about threadless is adjusting the headset bearings. Threaded is more finicky than threadless.


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## Henry Chinaski (Feb 3, 2004)

BTW, that Masi Gran Criterium is pure win. Wish it came in another color, though. Actually, I'm glad it's black cause otherwise I'd be too tempted...

They look nice in blue...


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## LandShark'n (Jan 10, 2011)

My *Land Shark*, built with Reynolds 731 OS Race, is one of the best-riding frames I've ever been on. Quality steel frames typically come from smaller volume builders, but the offerings from Soma, Raleigh and Masi among others show that this market is still very much alive and they're building great frames to fulfill it.


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## Goodbarsix (Aug 5, 2009)

Henry Chinaski said:


> BTW, that Masi Gran Criterium is pure win. Wish it came in another color, though. Actually, I'm glad it's black cause otherwise I'd be too tempted...
> 
> They look nice in blue...


Good NIGHT that is HOT. Hrm...maybe in 5 years my new Masi will need a paint job


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## ttug (May 14, 2004)

*Masi bikes*



Goodbarsix said:


> Good NIGHT that is HOT. Hrm...maybe in 5 years my new Masi will need a paint job


I did take a look and behold, there is a Masi dealer, 64 miles wown the road near me....and YES the grand crit, very nice, I do have some time to look

I also saw that Raleigh is carried by REI and I have a few of those near by


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## Panzer (Dec 2, 2010)

*


There are plenty of steel frame manufacturers out there ranging from cheap to expensive - Waterford, Vanilla, Strong, Colnago Master X Light and the list goes on and on.

The real issue is that steel frames just don't sell. No one wants steel. Yes there are a few diehards out there but they are as numerous as math students searching for slide rulers.

You can blame it on how heavy steel frames are or on how they tend to rust without frame saver or how flexy they are. Whatever, take your pick. It really doesn't matter. The fact is that there is just no demand for steel frames and that's not going to change.


:idea:


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## ttug (May 14, 2004)

*strongly disagree*



Panzer said:


> *
> 
> 
> There are plenty of steel frame manufacturers out there ranging from cheap to expensive - Waterford, Vanilla, Strong, Colnago Master X Light and the list goes on and on.
> ...


That total BS.

In the late 80'd earl;y 90's when c dale made its aluminum vasectomy machine, every said aluminum was harsh. One of the most comfortable ridea I had was on an aluminum bike and it was a c dale.

THEN everyone said Carbon was too new, it would never cath on, its not practicla etcetc , that changed.

THEN, everyome said Tio was too high end, not so, they sell.

The deal is, if steel is so terrible, and it rusts, you assume other materials do not corrode or fail? Thats false. Its the build and fit of a machine that make a ride. The wholematerial thing, thats a crock. Steel, you have 4 grand plus steel frames and they are selling. Hoe do you seel a 4 G frame and not have a demand, thats a crock.

The deal is you can make more bucks on things that fail and things that change rapidly and require upgrades. Thats any material. AND yes, its about bikes as well.

I very much detest folks who claim any BS quality about a material when if they riode a bike that fit, it possibly would make no difference except for weight what you rode. The reasom its hard to finms decent steel is lets face it, carbon is popular now, this will change, life will go on.

Please, dont postthis crap when all I wanted to know was who made lugged steel frames ok?


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## Touch0Gray (May 29, 2003)

ttug....i got 2 steel and aluminum and a carbon.......I have been riding my carbon mostly and i like it....but i LOVE my bianchi.....I wish it were lugged....my Trek 400 is but my Bianchi is more comfortable.......If i was made of money I would buy the Dolomiti in a heartbeat


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## scryan (Jan 24, 2011)

veloduffer said:


> Carbon fiber is much cheaper to produce, both material and labor costs are significantly lower than steel and titanium.


Mind sharing your suppliers? I design and build single seater race cars for school, and we would LOVE to use more carbon fiber, but cost ease of production always lead us back to 4130 steel...


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## rx-79g (Sep 14, 2010)

scryan said:


> Mind sharing your suppliers? I design and build single seater race cars for school, and we would LOVE to use more carbon fiber, but cost ease of production always lead us back to 4130 steel...


You want to build one care or 10,000 cars? Taking an argument about bicycle production and applying it to solitary car projects lacks honesty.

You, I'm sure, KNOW why steel _happens_ to be the cheapest alternative for your project. If you didn't have a welder, it wouldn't be. But you could have used fiberglass, too, which you don't mention. So either steel is good for a one-off, or you just lack imagination.



And Panzer, steel's fall from popularity has nothing to do with any of the things you list. It is simply considered old fashioned by the millions of unthinking consumers that constantly demand change for change's sake. If steel frames were developed after carbon fiber, you'd be making just as weak an argument about crack propogation, UV damage and mold voids to justify the popular bias against the old tech. Give it a break.


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## Lazy Spinner (Aug 30, 2009)

I just bought a 2010 Kona Haole. Deda Zero Replica steel and a very smooth riding bike. Huge difference in ride quality over my mixed material Trek and I can ride it in full sunlight without the risk of it exploding like that lightweight plastic stuff.

In all seriousness, I went steel since I essentially needed a big mileage bike to build base for CX and I didn't want to worry constantly about carbon. (Like driving a Porsche - it goes fast and is fun to drive but you constantly fret some moron in the parking lot will ding it with the door of his pickup.) 

The Masi Gran Criterium was on my short list but I couldn't pass up the deal I got on my Kona. If you prefer lugs, you may still find some closeout Kona Kapu framesets out there for under a grand.


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## robwh9 (Sep 2, 2004)

*A question for Soma owners...*



SystemShock said:


> Soma Stanyan is a nice lugged steel frameset for about $650.
> 
> Likely could build it up with some SRAM Apex or Rival and have a pretty nice bike for under $2K.


Did you build up your bike yourself? Did you have any problems?

Soma's FAQ says:

We highly recommend you take your frame to a bike shop to be built. If you must do it yourself...You don't want to start building a frame only to find something wrong with it in the middle of building. Check frame and fork alignment. Face the BB and headtube, if needed. Chase the BB if needed. Check for burrs in the seat tube that might score your seatpost. Optional: Treat the insides of the frame with J.P. Weigle's Frame Saver for corrosion protection. If you do not have facing and chasing tools, try to look for resources in your area. In SF there is the non-profit Bike Kitchen that let's you go in and use their tools for free. And there are people there to answer questions as well."


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## rx-79g (Sep 14, 2010)

robwh9 said:


> Did you build up your bike yourself? Did you have any problems?
> 
> Soma's FAQ says:
> 
> We highly recommend you take your frame to a bike shop to be built. If you must do it yourself...You don't want to start building a frame only to find something wrong with it in the middle of building. Check frame and fork alignment. Face the BB and headtube, if needed. Chase the BB if needed. Check for burrs in the seat tube that might score your seatpost. Optional: Treat the insides of the frame with J.P. Weigle's Frame Saver for corrosion protection. If you do not have facing and chasing tools, try to look for resources in your area. In SF there is the non-profit Bike Kitchen that let's you go in and use their tools for free. And there are people there to answer questions as well."


This means that they do not chase and face the frames or inspect them. You MUST chase and face these frames or you'll have problems. Other, nicer frames get more prep and inspection before they're sold. But you'll need to pay a little for a frame prep and inspection at the LBS with a Soma.


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## bikesdirect (Sep 9, 2006)

Panzer said:


> *
> 
> 
> There are plenty of steel frame manufacturers out there ranging from cheap to expensive - Waterford, Vanilla, Strong, Colnago Master X Light and the list goes on and on.
> ...



You are right and wrong; but reason maybe not what you are thinking

steel framed bikes do sell poorly; compared to aluminum, carbon, and even Ti
however, there is enough demand for companies to offer this alternative

But the main reason for lower demand is not weight, rust, flex -- it is pure image
Steel in the mind of the normal buyer does not seem as modern or expensive as AL, CF, or Ti

And with high grade steel costing more than low end aluminum; and really nice steel more than CF, and with super exotic steel over Ti - there is a real preception problem

However, there will be an increase in high-grade steel frame sales in the next few years; I am certain


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## FrenchNago (Jan 1, 2011)

*one of the nicest still in production*


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## robwh9 (Sep 2, 2004)

rx-79g said:


> This means that they do not chase and face the frames or inspect them. You MUST chase and face these frames or you'll have problems. Other, nicer frames get more prep and inspection before they're sold. But you'll need to pay a little for a frame prep and inspection at the LBS with a Soma.


So, they don't inspect their frames when they receive them from the manufacturer? Quality control is the customer's responsibility? It sounds like buying a Soma is a crapshoot.


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## rx-79g (Sep 14, 2010)

robwh9 said:


> So, they don't inspect their frames when they receive them from the manufacturer? Quality control is the customer's responsibility? It sounds like buying a Soma is a crapshoot.


It's not like they don't have a warranty or that the quality is actually bad. But they probably don't even unwrap them. That's part of why the price is what it is. 

A basic check of frame alignment and dropouts take a few minutes. Facing is still considered a necessary check anytime you aren't told it was done at the factory. So really, this is nothing new.

If you don't like it, buy something else. But you will pay more.


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## Panzer (Dec 2, 2010)

ttug said:


> That total BS.
> 
> In the late 80'd earl;y 90's when c dale made its aluminum vasectomy machine, every said aluminum was harsh. One of the most comfortable ridea I had was on an aluminum bike and it was a c dale.
> 
> ...





Whether you agree with it or disagree with it is completely irrelevant. The fact is that there is virtually no demand for steel frames. If you believe that there is then you are just fooling yourself. There are several frame builders out there who will sell you a steel frame and I listed some of them in my original post.

Those who believe that frame builders are conspiring against the consumer by not offering steel frames to fatten their profits are also big fools. Yes, frame builders would like us to purchase the higher end Ti or carbon frames as the profit margins are much higher for them. But if there were truly a measurable demand for steel frames, you can bet that some frame builders would move in to fill that niche and make a profit.

Aluminum frames are also low end frames along with steel. But there are many aluminum frame builders out there selling large volumes of aluminum frames and making nice profits. Why, because the demand is there.

When you talk about posting crap on this forum, you might first want to take a good look at your face in the mirror. A basic course in economics would also help.


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## terbennett (Apr 1, 2006)

Wellin the last three years, Lemond disappeared and they still had a couiple of steel framed bikes left when they were around. Steel is not dead. Many manufacturers have are offering one or two road bike models with a steel frame. My favorite off the shelf steelie right now is the Raleigh Record Ace. It comes equipped with Ultegra gearing and a rather expensive Brooks saddle for around $2K. I don't own one but it looks like a nice option if you want to buy an off the shelf bike. Please keep in mind that bike prices have risen as well. The steelies you see now might seem to cost as much as comparable tupperware bikes but that isn't the case. Those tupperware bikes have gone up too- along with everything else that has anything to do with cycling. The average plastic Ultegra bike now is between $3000-4000. Similarly equipped aluminum is between $2500-$3000. Some similarly equipped tupperware bikes can be had for a little less on sale but $3,000 seems like the bottom end in price. For some companies, making a steelie with high end components does seem like a smart choice since they want something that will sell well ot it's targetmarket. We love them, but that doesn't mean that they are going to be great sellers. Well, they will sell well but in low-production volume.


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## ttug (May 14, 2004)

*yes*



terbennett said:


> Wellin the last three years, Lemond disappeared and they still had a couiple of steel framed bikes left when they were around. Steel is not dead. Many manufacturers have brought but one or teo road bike models with a steel frame. My favorite off the shelf steelie right now is the Raleigh Record Ace. It comes equipped with Ultegra gearing and a rather expensive Brooks saddle for around $2K. I don't own one but it looks like a nice option if you want to buy an off the shelf bike. Please keep in mind that bike prices have risen as well. The steelies you see now might seem to cost as much as comparable tupperware bikes but that isn't the case. Those carbon bikes have gone up too- along with everything else that has anything to do with cycling. The average Ultegra bike now is between $3000-4000. Some can be had for a little less on sale but $3,000 seems like the bottom end in price. For some companies, making a steelie with high end components does seem like a smart choice since they want something that will sell to the masses. We love them, but that doesn't mean that they are going to be great sellers.


I just had a chance to throw my leg onto a Raleigh you described...I liked the feel. BUT, now I want to test ride one


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## ttug (May 14, 2004)

*economics, I am game*



Panzer said:


> Whether you agree with it or disagree with it is completely irrelevant. The fact is that there is virtually no demand for steel frames. If you believe that there is then you are just fooling yourself. There are several frame builders out there who will sell you a steel frame and I listed some of them in my original post.
> 
> Those who believe that frame builders are conspiring against the consumer by not offering steel frames to fatten their profits are also big fools. Yes, frame builders would like us to purchase the higher end Ti or carbon frames as the profit margins are much higher for them. But if there were truly a measurable demand for steel frames, you can bet that some frame builders would move in to fill that niche and make a profit.
> 
> ...


I have a Masters in International Transactions, yes, lets discuss economics, lets do that.

The demand for steel exists because there are steel bikes that sell, for large bucks and ooddly enough, they are also SOLD AND BOUGHT at the agreed upon large price.

Ergo, there is a demand as the product is bought, and if we were to break the same product down into subtypes, you would see that YES, there is a demand because the product is sold. So, the whole there is no demand thing, thats wrong.........

Additionally, as there are people who still make steel bikes, I would assume that they do so for the sake of making money and have fun. They are not xeroxing the money, they are earning the said money from a transaction that involves the sale of the item. Ergo, there is a demand. 

Further, some folks, actually wait, for their bike to be made, they wait months, for their bike, made of steel to be made......Additionally, there are trade shows, that have as their subject, steel frames. SO, yes, there is a demand, because, they are sold, and because folks still make them. 

I do not know the precise profit margin, but assuming we are ion the good ol US of A, most companies I know of, operate by the fact that they make a profit. Otherwise, they get bought or disappear.

I however do agree that the sheer num,ber of companies that make steel bikes has shrank, or the ammount of said steel bikes are made in a smaller quantity. However, the hard cold economic fact remains that since there is a demand, there is a supply. Sorry, thats been that way for a long long time.

It is now, very popular to ride carbon, or aluminum or ti or whatever combo you want really. The popularity of the material side is rather obvious, there are more of them, so, there should be a larger demand, which as of this moment appears to be the case.

Does this mean they are better? Nope. It means there is a larger demand.

Now that we have established the fact that the demand of a product usualloy results in a supply which will hopefully strive to meet the demand, we could talk a walk on the wild side and say, golly how does supply and demand effect prices? Sadly, its not all about supply and demand because we have these things called externalities. Perception, brand loyalty, fashion etc etc etc So even an item, in an abundant ammount, could still sell for a profit because yes, it gets cheaper to make a product as more are made, you will gain some efficiencies in poduction methods and that can and should cause a price to go down, you still have a demand that can cause the price to go up, regardless of how many of the things are out there.. 

Can increasing demand, cause a product to decline in price? YES. 

IF the ammount made, exceeds even a large demand, sooner or later you will hit the sweet spot, BUT, luckily, we are in a place where, if you can manipulate things, model year, paint schemes, decrease durability etc etc, you can absolutely make more profit, however you have to sell more at the decreased profit margin to make raw gain. You could still have profits, thats swell. However, the average consumer, gets fed up and the price will decline no matter how cool the new identical frame looks. AND FACE IT, lower profits higher demand means, more get made and some market guru says hey, we need to make more money(profits), fast, how do we do that? Why we market a newer and normally not improved product.......BUT, you have now saturated the market. Now what? The demand will start to fall UNLESS

You could build in failure..ha ha ha OR you could come out with innovations which do not play well with the previous models....golly, we all know this wouild never happen with bikes right? 

OR how about this, why not start out with a "new" product and attach the adjective RETRO to it and see what happens. A new product at least in the guise of the loving consumer such as yourself who cant get their head around the fact and its a fact, if you do not make a profit, you cease to exist as a corporate entity. These are the same folks who believe a bank lends money from profits, yeah, thats wrong. A bank, lends debt and if you cant grow a business, because you cant generate a profit, you cant go to a bank and get a loan...........because, you could not pay them back and thus, the bank would get the double shaft, your default, and their debt

SADLY, for those of us who recall the days of pre 1990, and even gasp, pre 1980, they will know that retro, is another maket word for, we are out of innovations and thus we will request you take it up the shaft for this "new" retro product.

So the fools, are the ones who dont have enough common sense to crack open a book and read the history of the sport and watch its technology change and just see that the retro of today was the cool stuff of decades past.


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## robwh9 (Sep 2, 2004)

*I just ordered a Stanyan.*



rx-79g said:


> It's not like they don't have a warranty or that the quality is actually bad. But they probably don't even unwrap them. That's part of why the price is what it is.
> 
> A basic check of frame alignment and dropouts take a few minutes. Facing is still considered a necessary check anytime you aren't told it was done at the factory. So really, this is nothing new.
> 
> If you don't like it, buy something else. But you will pay more.


What the heck, I'm a randonneur geek, and I always felt inadequate because I didn't have a randonneur geek bike.

I rode a Tange Prestige bike (a Lotus Prestige) from '87 to '98 and it had a sweet ride. My ride since then is Reynolds 853 (a KHS Aero Comp), also a sweet ride, but is in need of replacement.

Let's see, now I need a Brooks saddle, a Carradice saddle bag (do they make handlebar bags too?), fenders, Schmidt hub generator and lights....am I missing anything?


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## Henry Chinaski (Feb 3, 2004)

rx-79g said:


> It's not like they don't have a warranty or that the quality is actually bad. But they probably don't even unwrap them. That's part of why the price is what it is.
> 
> A basic check of frame alignment and dropouts take a few minutes. Facing is still considered a necessary check anytime you aren't told it was done at the factory. So really, this is nothing new.
> 
> If you don't like it, buy something else. But you will pay more.


Surly is the same way and it's pretty standard at this price point. It is definitely worth it to buy these types of frames from a good shop that will face and chase it. My Cross Check definitely needed it but was straight as an arrow.


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## atpjunkie (Mar 23, 2002)

*gotta say*



Maverick said:


> here's a lugged steel bike from '96.
> 
> ignore the modern components
> it's a pig @ 17.88 lbs
> ...


something incongruous about an MXL w/ lightweight wheels
and I'm an MXL owner


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## rydbyk (Feb 17, 2010)

Edit..can't load pic..


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## atpjunkie (Mar 23, 2002)

*and ttug*

someone mentioned earlier
Curtlo, custom about $1200 frame and fork out the door
but the Raleigh or the Masi will do the job as well
good luck finding a new ride
what a great day


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## ChilliConCarnage (Jun 1, 2006)

Can you fit onto a 56cm?

If so, there's a Kona Kapu with Ultegra on eBay right now for $1550 with free shipping. It's a 2009 that they say is a like-new demo. Seems like a killer deal to me.

Dedacci SAT steel with chrome lugs. I can' tell you how many compliments I've gotten on mine (I have a 2008 in orange) - I got it from an RBR forumite, in this thread:

http://forums.roadbikereview.com/showthread.php?t=153926 

I have a couple of carbon bikes, a scandium, an aluminum, etc. The Kona gets as much time as any other in my stable.

Here's the eBay auction: http://cgi.ebay.com/2009-Kona-Kapu-/230582219424?pt=Road_Bikes&hash=item35afc572a0#ht_506wt_932


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## SystemShock (Jun 14, 2008)

Panzer said:


> Whether you agree with it or disagree with it is completely irrelevant. The fact is that there is virtually no demand for steel frames. If you believe that there is then you are just fooling yourself.


Really? So that's why Specialized brought back a steel Allez model, because there's "no demand"? 

This is also why makes like Surly, Soma, and Rivendell continue to not only survive, but thrive? Ditto the likes of Raleigh, Jamis, Kona, Masi, what-have-you?

You can say steel is a niche market, sure. But "no demand" is silly.

And of course, custom steel will be a very long time in dying, if ever. 
.


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## terbennett (Apr 1, 2006)

Wow!! Kona makes some really nice looking steelies.


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## ttug (May 14, 2004)

*agreed*



atpjunkie said:


> someone mentioned earlier
> Curtlo, custom about $1200 frame and fork out the door
> but the Raleigh or the Masi will do the job as well
> good luck finding a new ride
> what a great day


Yes, it is a great day


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## ttug (May 14, 2004)

*arrrgh*



ChilliConCarnage said:


> Can you fit onto a 56cm?
> 
> If so, there's a Kona Kapu with Ultegra on eBay right now for $1550 with free shipping. It's a 2009 that they say is a like-new demo. Seems like a killer deal to me.
> 
> ...


56, yes. Bucks now, no.

Nice frame


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## Dereck (Jan 31, 2005)

Not that much further from lugged steel to custom geometry lugged steel.

My Bob Jackson - now nearly five years old, must take some new shots. Lugged 853, every feature to my spec. My prefered geometry is a tad unusual - no sweat. Though it looks pretty much like a horizontal TT, its actually a 54 cm ST centre to centre, rotated up a cm at the front, down a cm at the back. 

The paint job is 'custom' too. Only the lettering is done with decals, the seat tube rings and lugging highlights are all hand painted. The only part of the finish I paid for as 'extra' was the chromed chainstays. When I asked them at the factory about it, they said it was a pleasure to paint a bike up in this style of finish. 

Corners mostly by my thinking about it some, goes precisely where pointed and suggests that it can handle a bunch more power than I can lay down these days. 

Bought because I had one a few years back - in 1973 - and couldn't resist the 'sentimental journey'. They're built pretty close to where I grew up in my native England, so I started the order by visiting the shop on a trip home - we were living near DC at the time. Everything bar the chrome plate was done in house - the plating's done in the next village. No 'creap clap flom chlina' with this frame.

Snag is, my last one went a he!! of a sight faster. My wife reckons it has something to do with the snot-nosed crit loving sprinter kid who rode it 

After a dismal experience with one of Trek's finest CF US made 'products', I suspect I shall stick with my custom built steel bike frame.

regards

Dereck


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## Touch0Gray (May 29, 2003)

I think the Kona is the same frame as the Bianchi Dolomiti (as in same actual manufacturer)


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## ttug (May 14, 2004)

*i think so as well*



Touch0Gray said:


> I think the Kona is the same frame as the Bianchi Dolomiti (as in same actual manufacturer)


You are so right about the Bianchi, it looks sweet


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## atpjunkie (Mar 23, 2002)

*someday*



Dereck said:


> Not that much further from lugged steel to custom geometry lugged steel.
> 
> My Bob Jackson - now nearly five years old, must take some new shots. Lugged 853, every feature to my spec. My prefered geometry is a tad unusual - no sweat. Though it looks pretty much like a horizontal TT, its actually a 54 cm ST centre to centre, rotated up a cm at the front, down a cm at the back.
> 
> ...


I want one of those in a Pista frame


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## rubbersoul (Mar 1, 2010)

atpjunkie said:


> something incongruous about an MXL w/ lightweight wheels
> and I'm an MXL owner



That is sex on wheels!


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## veloduffer (Aug 26, 2004)

Panzer said:


> Whether you agree with it or disagree with it is completely irrelevant. The fact is that there is virtually no demand for steel frames. If you believe that there is then you are just fooling yourself.


Demand for high end steel bikes is growing. Just look at the growth of the North American Handbuilt Bike Show (NAHBS), which features more and more builders each year. They have a separate section for new builders, as there are 7-10 new builders each year.

Most of the large mfrs (Trek, Specialized, etc) won't dedicate their lineup to steel bikes. Aluminum and carbon fiber provided greater margins, since the material and labor are cheaper for their scales of production. Their marketing and sponsoring of racing teams use carbon fiber, as the production techniques and material costs are well aligned with mass production.

Lugged and filet brazed steel require a different level of craftsmanship and that kind of labor is expensive. It takes longer to build and high end steel tubing can cost more. Similarly with titanium compared to carbon fiber. Titanium and steel production works well for custom building. Custom builders don't spend money on R&D and marketing like the big companies; their marketing is word of mouth, internet and trade shows. And the customer is generally more knowledgeable about bikes and can customize the design as well as the look (stainless and ornate lugs, paint schemes).

Steel is far from dead, it is concentrated at a different spectrum of the market.


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## jet sanchEz (Nov 28, 2005)

Specialized brought back an Allez in steel that retails for $600 so I bet Trek and Giant won't be far behind. 

Used steel bikes are still a great value. Find an old Ciocc or Colnago in your size for a few hundred bucks, throw on a decent group and you are way ahead of the crowd.


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## shudson16 (Mar 20, 2009)

robwh9 said:


> Did you build up your bike yourself? Did you have any problems?
> 
> Soma's FAQ says:
> 
> We highly recommend you take your frame to a bike shop to be built. If you must do it yourself...You don't want to start building a frame only to find something wrong with it in the middle of building. Check frame and fork alignment. Face the BB and headtube, if needed. Chase the BB if needed. Check for burrs in the seat tube that might score your seatpost. Optional: Treat the insides of the frame with J.P. Weigle's Frame Saver for corrosion protection. If you do not have facing and chasing tools, try to look for resources in your area. In SF there is the non-profit Bike Kitchen that let's you go in and use their tools for free. And there are people there to answer questions as well."


I built the bike up myself. I had the BB faced and chased. I didn't have the headtube faced because of the chrome lugs and the chance of the chrome chipping. Turned out just fine. I also treated the inside of the tubes with Framesaver, two applications to be sure. The build was easy and fun. Ninety percent of the parts I used are brand new. Lots of time went into just deciding on what brands of components to use. All in all, a fun experience.


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## shudson16 (Mar 20, 2009)

robwh9 said:


> What the heck, I'm a randonneur geek, and I always felt inadequate because I didn't have a randonneur geek bike.
> 
> I rode a Tange Prestige bike (a Lotus Prestige) from '87 to '98 and it had a sweet ride. My ride since then is Reynolds 853 (a KHS Aero Comp), also a sweet ride, but is in need of replacement.
> 
> Let's see, now I need a Brooks saddle, a Carradice saddle bag (do they make handlebar bags too?), fenders, Schmidt hub generator and lights....am I missing anything?


kudos on your new frame. I think you'll be very happy both with the feel of the ride as well as the asthetics. The final touch to my build, a Brooks saddle, should be here today. FWIW, the fenders I use are SKS, They really set it off although it took me a couple of hours to make them fit just the way I wanted. The rack is Axiom and I have Axiom panniers I use regularly. All in all I got what I wanted, no compromises and I know that on the next group ride there will be no other bike that looks quite like mine.


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## bikesdirect (Sep 9, 2006)

jet sanchEz said:


> Specialized brought back an Allez in steel that retails for $600 so I bet Trek and Giant won't be far behind.
> 
> .



I certainly hope you are correct. With steel bikes from just Jamis, raleigh, surly, salsa, kona, etc; it is easy for shoppers to go you several stores and never see a steel bike nor ever be told the advantages of steel.

Without exposure this sales are limited.
We are adding 8 hi-grade steel bikes this year; but we would add a lot more if custoimers were more exposed to this fantastic frame material.


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## Powerbird (Jun 22, 2017)

Hi LandShark'n,

I believe that I own your Landshark! The paint job is exactly the same, which doesn't seem possible since Slawta painted it by hand.

I bought the frame only 2-3 years ago and brought it back to life. Had to have some work on done on the rear drop outs, which were slightly bent.

Did you sell it on ebay?

Gary


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## LandShark'n (Jan 10, 2011)

Powerbird said:


> Hi LandShark'n,
> 
> I believe that I own your Landshark! The paint job is exactly the same, which doesn't seem possible since Slawta painted it by hand.
> 
> ...


I'll bet it is the same one, but I sold it more than 2-3 years ago, so it probably exchanged hands a time or two since I had it. I purchased it from a gentleman in Columbia, SC and sold it. The buyer (hopefully it wasn't you) wasn't happy that the chainstays had been repainted. I had no idea whether they had been or not. It was my only Landshark, so I have nothing to compare it to.

How is it treating you?


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## Powerbird (Jun 22, 2017)

Yep, the guy who sold it to me indicated that the the chainstays had been repainted. After I got the bike frame, I sent John Slawta an image of the bike and he indicated that the paint job was the original without repainting. The bike is by far the best, most comfortable bike I have ever ridden, especially for rides over 50 miles. I will send you some pictures. So, what are you riding now?


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## LandShark'n (Jan 10, 2011)

Powerbird said:


> Yep, the guy who sold it to me indicated that the the chainstays had been repainted. After I got the bike frame, I sent John Slawta an image of the bike and he indicated that the paint job was the original without repainting. The bike is by far the best, most comfortable bike I have ever ridden, especially for rides over 50 miles. I will send you some pictures. So, what are you riding now?


It's great that you heard it directly from John Slawta. I agree that it is very comfortable and looking back, the primary reason I let it go was that the frame was just a bit to large for me. I bought it because it was a rare chance to own a Landshark.

Right now, I'm down to two bikes. A Cannondale Quick that I use for commuting and an '87 Nishiki Modulus that was my first bike shop bike. It's now a fixie, but it's my go-to road bike.


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