# Force vs. Rival drive train



## rplace13

Hey all, long time Campy guy but want my next bike to be a bit different just because. Never been a huge Shimano fan and recenlty test rode a Blue Norcross with SRAM. I really liked the double tap shifting. So much so I am building up my new bike with it.

Weight is a concern if it is major, but the new bike is going to be a steel HyperX from Gunnar so no way it will be super light no matte what. I'll probably concentrate on the wheels if I get concerned about weight.

So beyond the weight is there any reason to consider the increased price for Force over Rival. I am most concerned with the shifters since that is the major cost. Derailleurs are not that huge to buy once and replace if you got the itch, but the shifters are a pretty big chunk of change so want to do it right the first time.

Are there any differences between the internals and the feel/shifting? If so what are they? As you move up the food chain in Campy you get bearings over bushings in some components, wondering if there is any such differences between the SRAM line.

Thanks!


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## jfitzem

*Experience with all 3*

I've run Red, Force, and Rival on different bikes. Had one set of Force and Red shifters fail (internal failure, not crash related) but covered under warranty. I believe the Force shifters have smoother shifting than Red or Rival.
My vote goes to Force for the shifters.

I don't think you'll regret spending the extra $50-80.


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## nightfend

jfitzem said:


> I believe the Force shifters have smoother shifting than Red or Rival..


That shouldn't be the case at all. Red has shorter throws than Rival and Force, and I believe the front derailleur trim is still only available on Red. Force and Rival have the same shifter guts so they will function the same. Weight is the only difference.


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## Wookiebiker

nightfend said:


> That shouldn't be the case at all. Red has shorter throws than Rival and Force, and I believe the front derailleur trim is still only available on Red. Force and Rival have the same shifter guts so they will function the same. Weight is the only difference.


Agreed...There is zero difference between Rival and Force shifters other than a small amount of weight. As far as the rest of the component group goes, they function the same but again weight is where the difference is at.

The only thing I've ever felt was a difference between the groups was with Red shifters, which I felt were a big jump in feel and performance over Rival/Force.


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## rplace13

Thanks all. You have me leaning toward saving some money on the shifters/FD/RD, but now how about the crank? Hollow aluminum on the Rival and carbon on Force, any differences you feel/see riding them? I want this bike to do double duty as a cummuter during the week and cyclocross bike for a few races a year. Thinking about 38/46 up front and 11-28 in the rear. You think that will give me some decent top end on the road (I have two dedicated road bikes so no problem there) when light commuting 25 miles each way on most smooth pavement, but some rough gravel but still have some low end for cross? Or go with a different cassette or wheels for cross specific. Wife already thinks I have enough bikes so have to keep the price on this build in the reasonable realm.


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## T0mi

rplace13 said:


> Thanks all. You have me leaning toward saving some money on the shifters/FD/RD, but now how about the crank? Hollow aluminum on the Rival and carbon on Force, any differences you feel/see riding them? I want this bike to do double duty as a cummuter during the week and cyclocross bike for a few races a year. Thinking about 38/46 up front and 11-28 in the rear. You think that will give me some decent top end on the road (I have two dedicated road bikes so no problem there) when light commuting 25 miles each way on most smooth pavement, but some rough gravel but still have some low end for cross? Or go with a different cassette or wheels for cross specific. Wife already thinks I have enough bikes so have to keep the price on this build in the reasonable realm.


I would go with this :
Sram red shifters
Everything else Rival (or even Apex for the front derailleur) to save money. The weight difference is minimal and they work exactly the same.
A nice third party crank (Rotor 3D, Stronglight Helion/Fission) or Red.


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## davidka

The Rival crank is very nice for the cost, also available in all the ring combos and 177.5mm, 180mm. Look at the weights and it's surprisingly close to Red. Use a Shimano front derailleur on whatever combo you settle on. Night and day difference.


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## LongIslandTom

+1 on the Rival crank. I especially like the GXP version of the Rival Crank-- Has to be the easiest crankset in existence to install or remove for maintenance, using just an 8mm allen key.

Been using my Rival GXP Crank with a Chris King BB for the past year. A complete teardown, cleaning, regreasing and reinstall of the cranks and BB takes me all of 20 minutes to do.


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## aaric

T0mi said:


> I would go with this :
> Sram red shifters
> Everything else Rival (or even Apex for the front derailleur) to save money. The weight difference is minimal and they work exactly the same.
> A nice third party crank (Rotor 3D, Stronglight Helion/Fission) or Red.


+1. I did precisely this for my weather bike I recently built. Feels 90% the same as my full red setup, and I think the difference is in the cables (I used the included gore cables for the new build). Weight diff for the brakes and derailleurs from rival to red is like 100grams total, for quite a lot more $.

You can grab rival derailleurs and brakes for around $150 total if you try. $400ish red shifters, and whatever you want to spend on the crank gets you a really nice setup on the cheap.


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## nightfend

You can't go wrong with the Rival crank. It works great and is available in a huge variety of sizes.

For brakes, if you want SRAM, then go either Force or Red (2010 or later). They use a more advanced design than the Rival version which uses the less powerful design that Force used to use when it was first introduced.


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## Skippy_S

Where cost is a concern, everyone has a different combo that works for them based partially on performance, but also what the deal was at the time, so you might hunt around and see what deals you can find.

With that being said, I want to participate too  Here is my combo, works great. Would recommend the crank:

185.00 Force Shifters (does have FD trim)
30.00 Force FD
50.00 Force RD (lightly used)
30.00 Rival Brakeset
100.00 Force Crank
30.00 GXP BB
50.00 1070 Cassette


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## swierszcz

Force with Red shifters and Shimano Ultegra crank is my preferred combination for price to value. 
Red shifters are just awesome.
Force FD 2011 is garbage unless you get a braze on version, otherwise get Rival FD. The Force cage is almost 1mm wider than Rival, no way to dial it right.


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## vagabondcyclist

I'd go with:
Red shifters unless Force gets upgraded to zero loss on both front and rear shifters.
Force or Red brakes--easier to adjust with the centering screw and a bit more powerful than Rival.
Rival RD, FD, and cranks. 

Keep in mind that Rival is very, very functional and light.


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## Ppopp

I had my 2-year-old Ridley stolen earlier this year. It had Rival all around and was my first SRAM bike. Couldn't have been happier with the performance of Rival. I planned on replacing it with another Rival bike, but ended up getting a NOS Look 585 frame with a black (clearcoat) finish. When I had it built, the Force group matched the frame, appearance-wise, so much better, I splurged the extra $350 for the Force kit. The clear carbon finish and bright white graphics look like they were made for the frame.

Considering the price, functionality and weight, Rival is awesome. I really can't tell that Force works any better. If only the Rival crankset weren't so ugly.


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## rplace13

Thanks for all the info. I just could not justify the cost of the Red shifters. I do believe the new Force has zero loss. I ended up with all Force and a 1070 cassette and a Red crank from Bonktown for about $200 not bad for a Red crank. Waiting on them to arrive.


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