# Saxo bank



## nicks2192 (Jan 25, 2008)

Team Saxo Bank made the leap to sram red, I don't know if anyone saw that yet but I think it's pretty cool.


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## uzziefly (Jul 15, 2006)

Really? Hmm... That makes, what? Astana and them for now? Are there any other teams with it?

I've heard that SRAM Red chains don't use the power links (name?) that Shimano chains have that make removing them without the chain tool a possibility. Not sure though.


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## FondriestFan (May 19, 2005)

uzziefly said:


> Really? Hmm... That makes, what? Astana and them for now? Are there any other teams with it?
> 
> I've heard that SRAM Red chains don't use the power links (name?) that Shimano chains have that make removing them without the chain tool a possibility. Not sure though.


Mine has a powerlink. SRAM chains have always had powerlinks. It's Shimano that didn't have one.


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## nicks2192 (Jan 25, 2008)

astana, saxo bank, and agritubel use red well grand tour teams anyway than like jittery joes, team type 1 and a few others for us teams.


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## pdainsworth (Jun 6, 2004)

nicks2192 said:


> astana, saxo bank, and agritubel use red well grand tour teams anyway than like jittery joes, team type 1 and a few others for us teams.


Don't forget the mighty Fuji-Servetto team.


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## nicks2192 (Jan 25, 2008)

I knew I forgot one. on another note the Fuji-servetto team has the ugliest uniforms I've ever seen.


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## uzziefly (Jul 15, 2006)

FondriestFan said:


> Mine has a powerlink. SRAM chains have always had powerlinks. It's Shimano that didn't have one.


Sorry, wrong term. The quick chain release thing I mean.

Quick links? You know, the ones where on Shimano chains, you don't need a chain breaker device to remove it/install it again after cleaning etc?


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## nicks2192 (Jan 25, 2008)

And another one Kelly benefits.


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## ProRoad (Oct 13, 2008)

And I use a SRAM chain with my campy record. So there ya go.....


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## Andrea138 (Mar 10, 2008)

SRAM chains have a powerlink. They are not reusable, though, so you do have to break your chain if you want to remove it for cleaning.


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## uzziefly (Jul 15, 2006)

Andrea138 said:


> SRAM chains have a powerlink. They are not reusable, though, so you do have to break your chain if you want to remove it for cleaning.


Ah yes, that's exactly what I was talking about. Shimano's use quick links right (if that's the proper name)?

Then, what's the point for the powerlink? I don't quite get why they'd make it non reusable. 

Then again, if you're changing to a new chain, you'd still have to break the new one for Shimano anyway. 

//My quick link is kinda stuck now actually from what I've tried the other day. Ugh...


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## jd3 (Oct 8, 2004)

uzziefly said:


> //My quick link is kinda stuck now actually from what I've tried the other day. Ugh...


Have you noticed Park has come out with a tool for opening quick links?


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## stevesbike (Jun 3, 2002)

SRAM seems to aggressively expanding - they now own Zipp, truvativ, rock shox, avid... 

just get a Connex (wipperman) link made for 10spd shimano/sram chains.


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## DIRT BOY (Aug 22, 2002)

uzziefly said:


> Ah yes, that's exactly what I was talking about. Shimano's use quick links right (if that's the proper name)?
> 
> Then, what's the point for the powerlink? I don't quite get why they'd make it non reusable.
> 
> ...


NO Only KMC 10spd chains come with stock quick-links and wipperman. Everyone else you must be a Master-Link that compatible.

Now SRAM 8speed and 9 Speed come with removable Master-Links.

I prefer KCNC chains over SRAM and Shimano any day!!


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## DIRT BOY (Aug 22, 2002)

jd3 said:


> Have you noticed Park has come out with a tool for opening quick links?


I have one. It works great!


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## Dank (Nov 26, 2006)

My Sram chain power link is reuseable. You just need to no how to use it.


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## DIRT BOY (Aug 22, 2002)

Dank said:


> My Sram chain power link is reuseable. You just need to no how to use it.


No, it is NOT. SRAM even says this and advises against it.


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## b24fsb (Dec 21, 2006)

DIRT BOY said:


> No, it is NOT. SRAM even says this and advises against it.


this is true they do say that they are one time only use. however i reuse mine and have undone and then reconnected it many times without any problems


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## Bee-an-key (May 5, 2007)

Getting back to the original post, it is unusual for a team to switch groups after the season has begun. The publicity photo's and marketing is already done and shows the bikes with Shimano. The bikes were just built from scratch in January since they changed frames... A lot of time and money. It would seem unusual to have any kind of contract that would be expiring this time of year. Riis is a tech geek and has helped to push Speedplay, Zipp, Cervelo to the front. Any inside scoop out there why the switch? Is it just a money grab?


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## b24fsb (Dec 21, 2006)

I could be wrong on this so if I am then I am but saxo bank is just the new CSC and if my memory serves me correctly CSC didn't have a contract with shimano. They just bought all the groupo stuff they used. They did this because then they were able to try out other things like larger lower jockey pulleis or Q-rotors, because if they were in a contract shimano might not pet them use that stuff. Saxo Bank owners might not like this aproch so they were talking to shimano for more traditional sponsorship but those talked fell through and SRAM had open arms for Saxo. 

This is all a guess and just my take on it, I could be toally wrong.


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## setonz (Mar 7, 2009)

Milram are also using Sram red.


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## Mosovich (Feb 3, 2004)

*Voight on Shimano..*

Anyone notice today that Voigt was on Shimano.. I was thinking it would be hard to change that quick..


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## weltyed (Feb 6, 2004)

this is my understanding, too. riis ran CSC that way so they could bolt anything on the bike they wanted. it is more expensive, but they can run whatever they want. so this really says something about the perception of shimano vs sram right now.

they also said it got them outta being lab rats.



b24fsb said:


> I could be wrong on this so if I am then I am but saxo bank is just the new CSC and if my memory serves me correctly CSC didn't have a contract with shimano. They just bought all the groupo stuff they used. They did this because then they were able to try out other things like larger lower jockey pulleis or Q-rotors, because if they were in a contract shimano might not pet them use that stuff. Saxo Bank owners might not like this aproch so they were talking to shimano for more traditional sponsorship but those talked fell through and SRAM had open arms for Saxo.
> 
> This is all a guess and just my take on it, I could be toally wrong.


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## Cyclo-phile (Sep 22, 2005)

There were some shots a year or two ago of CSC testing SRAM stuff during their winter training camps. They stuck with buying Shimano for that season, but it established a relationship. Perhaps the long-standing deal with Zipp evolved since SRAM's buyout of the wheel company.


Oh, and I've reused SRAM 10-speed powerlinks several times with no detriment in service. They are a tighter lock than their 9-speed equivalent and require pliers to open them up.


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## pdainsworth (Jun 6, 2004)

http://www.cyclingnews.com/tech.php?id=/tech/2009/news/03-30


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## DIRT BOY (Aug 22, 2002)

weltyed said:


> this is my understanding, too. riis ran CSC that way so they could bolt anything on the bike they wanted. it is more expensive, but they can run whatever they want. so this really says something about the perception of shimano vs sram right now.
> 
> they also said it got them outta being lab rats.


Yes they did. I am sure SRAM gave them a bunch of money and gave them some leeway.

Its tell you if they BOUGHT Shimano, they preferred it over SRAM and Campy most likely.


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## Coolhand (Jul 28, 2002)

nicks2192 said:


> I knew I forgot one. on another note the Fuji-servetto team has the ugliest uniforms I've ever seen.


That would be Kashusta (sp?) they have THE ugliest uni's going right now.


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## cxwrench (Nov 9, 2004)

DIRT BOY said:


> Yes they did. I am sure SRAM gave them a bunch of money and gave them some leeway.
> 
> Its tell you if they BOUGHT Shimano, they preferred it over SRAM and Campy most likely.


from what i hear, there was NO money. just product. they went to SRAM and asked, SRAM agreed and gave them all the stuff they needed.


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## iamnotfilip (Jul 9, 2007)

pdainsworth said:


> http://www.cyclingnews.com/tech.php?id=/tech/2009/news/03-30


So does this mean when they were buying their stuff and not being sponsored they went with Shimano (and Cervelo) but now that they are getting paid, they are going with SRAM (and Specialized).

I guess it's clear which company shells out the most cash for sponsorship, the rest is for us to interpret.

Also, I love the angle of this quote in the article:
_With the advent of the Cervélo TestTeam, Specialized took on sponsorship duties for another ProTour team..._

They make it sound like Cervelo bailed on the team, and Specialized jumped in to save the day.


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## den bakker (Nov 13, 2004)

weltyed said:


> this is my understanding, too. riis ran CSC that way so they could bolt anything on the bike they wanted. it is more expensive, but they can run whatever they want. so this really says something about the perception of shimano vs sram right now.
> 
> they also said it got them outta being lab rats.


or it says something about saxobanks financial situation this year.


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## DIRT BOY (Aug 22, 2002)

iamnotfilip said:


> So does this mean when they were buying their stuff and not being sponsored they went with Shimano (and Cervelo) but now that they are getting paid, they are going with SRAM (and Specialized).
> 
> I guess it's clear which company shells out the most cash for sponsorship, the rest is for us to interpret.


That is basically it for 99% or teams, riders and products. Now some small details like seats and shoes maybe be negotiated. No re-badging is a whole nother story.


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## DIRT BOY (Aug 22, 2002)

cxwrench said:


> from what i hear, there was NO money. just product. they went to SRAM and asked, SRAM agreed and gave them all the stuff they needed.


Product, Money, same thing. SRAM is making sure these use SRAM. When it was the teams money, they used Shimano.


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## bigpinkt (Jul 20, 2006)

While Riis would like people to think that his "Open" deal with Shimano was done because it allowed them pick and choose components the reality is it was done for $$$.

*Most* of the time when a team does a deal with Shimano you have to use all there stuff....Wheels, PRO bars and Stems, etc. They don't pay much and give you a bunch of free stuff. Riis figured out, correctly, that he could get more money from Zipp, 3T, Speedplay and FSA then from Shimano. Shimano still gave him a very good Pro deal, Riis made more money and IMO Zipp, Speedplay and FSA benefited hugely from the deal with very good exposure. 

Riis is one of the smartest negotiators in the bike game. Before last years Tour he had a handshake deal with Specialized. After the Tour he called of Mike Sinyard and said "You know that deal we had? It is now double" $3.5 million plus equipment......then Sastre leaves 2 months later. Strike while the iron is hot.


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## moonmoth (Nov 8, 2008)

nicks2192 said:


> Team Saxo Bank made the leap to sram red, I don't know if anyone saw that yet but I think it's pretty cool.


Ok. Someone has to say it: How 'bout that SRAM Red chain break today at Flanders for Cancellera?


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## weltyed (Feb 6, 2004)

i thought of david millar and his bike-tossing incident of last year, too.

































anyone else see him go back and pick up the chain? talk to the mech? talk to sram? ebay it?


moonmoth said:


> Ok. Someone has to say it: How 'bout that SRAM Red chain break today at Flanders for Cancellera?


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## Coolhand (Jul 28, 2002)

moonmoth said:


> Ok. Someone has to say it: How 'bout that SRAM Red chain break today at Flanders for Cancellera?


Stuff happens. The SRAM chains are not known for breaking- although they did have a new design just out I haven't ridden. I went with KMC SL 10 chains this year.


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## robdamanii (Feb 13, 2006)

And Millar's chain break in the Giro last year was a Shimano chain anyway. Still a hysterical video to watch though.


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## saddle tramp (Feb 22, 2006)

so it was a sram chain on Fabian's bike?


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## ukbloke (Sep 1, 2007)

Here's a Team Saxo bike from Flanders, though not necessarily Cancellera's. I believe the Powerlock link in this picture indicates an SRAM chain:










I wonder if it came apart at that link?


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## Eric_H (Feb 5, 2004)

ukbloke said:


> I wonder if it came apart at that link?


Doubtful, any reported SRAM 10spd chain breakage I have ever read about has happened at links other than the Powerlock (see excelsports.com product reviews). 

I am using the Powerlock on 10spd Campy UN chains, and out of interest I removed a freshly installed link just to see how difficult it would be. I used needle nose pliers and it took some serious force to squeeze the pins together and disengage the link. After removing it, there is no way I would install it again as there was visible metal removal from me forcing it apart.


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