# Wheel stiffness - ENVE 3.4 vs Zipp 303? Carbon clincher



## ringmaster (Mar 26, 2005)

Time for some new rollers and I am looking for *stiff* rims - the lighter the better but some aero would be nice too.

Will most likely go custom-built but could be convinced to buy standard pre-built from either company.

ENVE SES 3.4 Clincher = 885g/pr
Zipp 303 FC Clincher = 1000g/pr

Pros and cons?

Any conclusive evidence as to which are stiffer?


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## Zen Cyclery (Mar 10, 2009)

The 3.4 is easily the stiffest rim that we've dealt with, other than its deeper 6.7 counterpart. Aside from them being astoundingly rigid, they have the best ride quality that I've seen on any hoop. Even the clincher form feels supple like a tubular. 

Take a look at the warranties though. Enve gives you a 5 year warranty, with lifetime crash replacement. Zipp gives you a 2 year warranty.


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## jfitzem (Sep 1, 2004)

I've owned the Zipp 303 tubulars and now the Enve 45 clinchers. Zipps were lighter and spin up much faster. Other than that, the Enve's are better wheels. Zipp hubs were pitiful compared to the King hubs on the Enve's. My 180lb frame flexed the crap of of the Zipps. the Enve's don't move...... 
Zen hit the nail on the head with the warranty.


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## rydbyk (Feb 17, 2010)

Way to push the products your store only sells. Looks like you are lacking the entire Zipp line up all together... Lemme guess, you love Velocity hoops, but can't stand Zipps? Have you ridden the Firecrest Clinchers? Thoughts on those?



Zen Cyclery said:


> The 3.4 is easily the stiffest rim that we've dealt with, other than its deeper 6.7 counterpart. Aside from them being astoundingly rigid, they have the best ride quality that I've seen on any hoop. Even the clincher form feels supple like a tubular.
> 
> Take a look at the warranties though. Enve gives you a 5 year warranty, with lifetime crash replacement. Zipp gives you a 2 year warranty.


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## carlislegeorge (Mar 28, 2004)

I dunno nothing about which is stiffer, but if they weigh 1000 grams or under per pair, then I am getting a set of each.


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## ringmaster (Mar 26, 2005)

carlislegeorge said:


> I dunno nothing about which is stiffer, but if they weigh 1000 grams or under per pair, then I am getting a set of each.


Weights listed are for the *rims*, not the wheelsets.


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## carlislegeorge (Mar 28, 2004)

Does it make a difference whether 45mm depth for both (Zipp) or 35/45 (Enve)? 

I put a fair amount of thought into this, before deciding that dropping $2500 for a new wheelset isn't in the Spring 2013 budget due to sequestration. I wanted Enve more for a long time, then changed my mind and would have gone Zipp built up with CK or Alchemy hubs, but avoiding the Zipp hubs. Just because.


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## Rickard Laufer (Jan 1, 2013)

carlislegeorge said:


> Does it make a difference whether 45mm depth for both (Zipp) or 35/45 (Enve)?
> 
> I put a fair amount of thought into this, before deciding that dropping $2500 for a new wheelset isn't in the Spring 2013 budget due to sequestration. I wanted Enve more for a long time, then changed my mind and would have gone Zipp built up with CK or Alchemy hubs, but avoiding the Zipp hubs. Just because.


What about these
https://madfiber.com/tubular


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## goodboyr (Apr 19, 2006)

rydbyk said:


> Way to push the products your store only sells. Looks like you are lacking the entire Zipp line up all together... Lemme guess, you love Velocity hoops, but can't stand Zipps? Have you ridden the Firecrest Clinchers? Thoughts on those?


Ha! At least I didn't say it this time!


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## lbkwak (Feb 22, 2012)

I like the quality and look of Enve better. Hidden nipples and ability to take high tension are bonus. 

If you really need a set of stiff rims, go with either 6.7 or 404.


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## NealH (May 2, 2004)

I remember reading this a while back. Still pretty relevant I would think. 

Best Carbon Aero Wheels For Triathlon Review | TriRadar.com


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## dcgriz (Feb 13, 2011)

carlislegeorge said:


> Does it make a difference whether 45mm depth for both (Zipp) or 35/45 (Enve)?
> .


Interesting question.. The Zipp are wider so rim rigidity should be higher if everything else was equal. But everything else is not equal as the cross-section differs and, most probably, the weight to strength ratio of each layup does as well. So unless these two rims are built with identical components and then their rigidity measured, there is no telling which makes the stiffest wheel, IMO. People say they "feel" this and that but I think the placebo effect has a lot to do with it.
Personally, I go with Enve for no other reason but the lip service I have gotten from the Zipp customer service in the past. My 45mm Enve clinchers on R45 have been stellar, plenty stiff for me (although irrelevant for the question at hand) and the guys at Enve have been great to deal with. That's is my no-answer answer,


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## r1lee (Jul 22, 2012)

not knowing anything about anything lol. I run the 303 FC and last year my weight was 190lbs. No flexing, spun up fast and rolled so smooth and for so long. 

I can't say enough good things about my Zipps, love the hubs as they free wheel forever and i notice this when i ride.


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## rydbyk (Feb 17, 2010)

From an asthetics standpoint, I like the muted black on black on the ENVEs, but I cannot get over the rear wheel being a deeper dish than the front. I am sure, the more common this becomes, the more it will seem normal. 

I know they do this in the TdF etc, but still...I think it looks funky monkey..

This is only for the newest "special" ENVEs from what I understan. 

I am having a rear Zipp 303 relaced to my G3 PT... I really hope they work out! I do not like the radial lacing on the drive side Zipp rear hub....what are they thinking?

Really, both companies produce a solid product. Who cares how the 2005 Zipps performed when you are buying a 2011/2012 product that has solid reviews?


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## tom_h (May 6, 2008)

i'd think the spoke lacing pattern would make a bigger difference, yet no mention of it, at all. A 28 spoke wheel is a lot stiffer laterally than 20 ...

Also the spacing of the hubs flanges: wider apart = stiffer wheel.


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