# Buying from BikesDirect.com - my experience



## indygreg

From the thread:
http://forums.roadbikereview.com/showthread.php?p=834989#post834989

I came to this thread looking to buy my first road bike. I did mention bd.com but had basically decided to go with a LBS due to some questions about BD.com specifically (some heated posts on bike boards) and the fact I was new . . . needed some hand holding.

Well, Mike from BD made some good posts and PMs. I decided to go with them - spending $1500 on a Mercier Alum frame with full DA. It was just too good to pass, even at about $200 over my budget. I am going to be honest - part of me thinks the frame will be decent at best . . . but the parts are worth more than $1500. Say what you want about BD and their 'list price' stuff (that gets heated in many threads) - I think there is more than $1500 worth of gear on this. Lets say for xmas I ask my wife for a Leader alum frame and fork - I will still have that with FULL DA for less than Leader is selling it for (and as good looking as that leader alum frame is - this might happen). Same with buying a Bianchi frame or anyones. If I can sell the Mercier frame for even $50 that is on top of everything.

I ordered on Wednesday night (about 9pm) and it shipped (well, an email told me it shipped but the tracking number will not be active until tonight) today. I expect to get it sometime next week.

I am going to take pictures and write up everything on this site. I will do this good or bad. I know . . . I am new here so I will be seen as a shill. Well, if things go well I will. I will be happy to get on the phone (number exchanged via PM) with anyone. There is another member here (DAKIndy I think . . . sorry need to look at my PMs) that does group rides just down the street from me. We are going to hook up. He can verify things. He might even work with me to set the bike up.

To that topic. I am going to attempt to set it up myself. It comes mostly assembled. I have changed brakes and stem on my MTB, so I think I can handle it. I have some books and I ordered a basic toolkit and DVD. I hope to take pics of every step and report back.

So - I am sure a post will be:
Why are you doing this?
#1 I think it might be helpful to others. I am a n00b jumping in with both feet.
#2 I was shocked at the level of passion in the internet bike threads. I make my living with computer networking . . . shopping on line is second nature. Yes, internet sites have and do kill mom and pop bricks and mortar shops. If it is your mom and pop, that sucks. On that topic - LBS' are not going away. People still will buy bikes from them. Service wise, their need will never go away.
#3 Fun. This will be fun to document. If it goes bad, others will know. Maybe others will help me.

More later.


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## indygreg

FYI - here is the email I got:

Hi - I'm David and I am processing your order.

Thanks for your order, by the way
This is an automatic email do not reply to it - please write to [email protected] if you have any questions 
Your item will be shipped via UPS. The tracking number is as follows: 

REMOVED

You can track it at www.ups.com. (sometimes it takes 24 to 48 hours to show in their system) 

NOTE:
When your package arrives and you see anything that concerns you or more than minor shipping bumps or bruises to the box, please contact us immediately. 
Please DO NOT refuse the package as this will go back to a location that cannot process the return which will cause severe delays.
Minor bumps and bruises to the box will not usually affect the bicycle inside as it is well packed. You can feel assured that we'll take care of you if there is anything wrong.
Email us at [email protected] or call us at 904-252-8881 (please leave a message if we don't answer). 

IF YOUR ITEM IS A COMPLETE BICYCLE ~~
Bikes are shipped knocked down with pedals (if included), handlebars, seat, and front wheel off.
The brakes and derailleurs/shifters will need some minor adjustments. It takes me about 25 minutes to setup a bike that is shipped like this. It is very easy to do. 
If you would like to know more about bike assembly and adjustment, please see the following links: 
http://www.parktool.com/repair_help/FAQindex.shtml 
or 
http://www.jimlangley.net/wrench/wrench.html 
or check the manual at www.motobecane.com [this manual is good for any brand and is free online] 
please note -- pedals are left and right threads -- the right pedals goes in the right side; left in the left side -- pedals should be greased, tightened very securely and NEVER forced in. A stripped crank is always a setup error due to improper pedal installation. Just take it slow and it should be no problem.
It is incumbent upon the rider to have their bike's parts properly tuned and tightened and checked over before every ride. 
If you feel it is beyond your expertise or you prefer to not fool with the set up of your new bike, a fair price at a Bike Shop to assemble is about $25 in most areas of the country. 
If you need anything at all, please email [email protected] when the item arrives. [I only handling shipping]
The staff there will be happy to answer questions and address concerns.

BIKES DIRECT SHIPPING INFO


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## covenant

Why the new thread...and why not in the Motobecane-Mercier forum?


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## indygreg

*was not aware*

of that forum. Guess I should open my eyes. 

No harm meant . . . but to be fair this forum is about bikes, frames and forks.


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## indygreg

Moderator - please move this to the proper form.

This was an honest mistake . . . as a n00b this was the forum I found - figured it was the be all end all forum.


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## dekindy

This thread is about the process, not the bike.

Greg-why don't you edit in 1) your initial description of yourself; 2)Bikesdirect's response where he describes why the bike would be right for you; and 3)your response regarding the 2 bikes and LBS's you were looking at and the fact that you had already been agonizing over the bike prior to his recommendation. That would give everyone a clear picture at how you arrived at your decision.

If there is going to be a lot of assemby and my Ultimate workstand will be of assistance, I will bring it over and give you some moral support. .


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## Richard

$25 to assemble in most areas of the country!!

What country are they talking about? Bangladesh?

Our shop charges at least $50 for a boxed road bike from outside of our store, whether it was a mail/internet order or an individually shipped bike.


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## LeaderBike

We already advertise here on RBR.

We would like to set the record straight.

First off the bike you mention is $1500

We will not debate the frame qualities. Our customers do enough of the praising about Leader.

Leader does offer a 736R full dura ace bike starting at $1678

http://www.leaderbikestore.com/pd_ld_736r1.cfm

or you can go to the 717R full dura ace for $1518

both bikes include:

Standard features: FULL DURA ACE GROUP, LEADER FRAME, LEADER I802 CARBON FORK, LEADER SPA3 ALUMINUM SEAT POST, BONTRAGER RACE SELECT WHEELS, DEDA BIG LOGO BAR AND STEM, FIZIK ALIANTE SPORT TI SADDLE, CONTINENTAL GP TIRES, MICHILIN TUBES, DEDA BAR TAPE, ALL CABLES AND HOUSINGS.

Or how about a 796R full carbon Dura Ace bike for $1998

http://www.leaderbikestore.com/pd_ld_796r2.cfm

Brian C
Tel 619 425 6452
[email protected]
www.leaderbikestore.com


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## bikesdirect

*Please - can we let Greg post his experience*



LeaderBike said:


> We already advertise here on RBR.
> 
> We would like to set the record straight.
> 
> First off the bike you mention is $1500
> 
> We will not debate the frame qualities. Our customers do enough of the praising about Leader.
> 
> Leader does offer a 736R full dura ace bike starting at $1678
> 
> http://www.leaderbikestore.com/pd_ld_736r1.cfm
> 
> or you can go to the 717R full dura ace for $1518
> 
> both bikes include:
> 
> Standard features: FULL DURA ACE GROUP, LEADER FRAME, LEADER I802 CARBON FORK, LEADER SPA3 ALUMINUM SEAT POST, BONTRAGER RACE SELECT WHEELS, DEDA BIG LOGO BAR AND STEM, FIZIK ALIANTE SPORT TI SADDLE, CONTINENTAL GP TIRES, MICHILIN TUBES, DEDA BAR TAPE, ALL CABLES AND HOUSINGS.
> 
> Or how about a 796R full carbon Dura Ace bike for $1998
> 
> http://www.leaderbikestore.com/pd_ld_796r2.cfm
> 
> Brian C
> Tel 619 425 6452
> [email protected]
> www.leaderbikestore.com


Brian

First, I would like to say that even though I have never seen one of your bikes I am sure they are fine quality. We all know the quality of frames produced in Taiwan today is excellent. I am certain you are providing a great service to lots of cyclists by getting them on better bikes than they can get at a LBS for the same money.

Second, please do not start comparing our bikes in a thread about buying a bike from us. You and I and everyone reading this knows it is not equal to compare the WCS parts on the bike Greg ordered to the parts on the bike you quote at $1518. That is not to mention the difference of several other key items..

Third, ‘dekindy’ is correct – this post is not about the bike; it is about the process. Brian, I believe in our distribution model, thus I also believe in yours, randell scott’s, Ibex’s, and others who deliver great bikes at below normal retail. {Sorry, Mr Covenant, in this case you are wrong – this thread is exactly where it should be, as a discussion of the process of selecting a bike, if I understand the forum correctly}

Brian, now if you want to have a shoot-out, great! Open another thread; post your best deal on a bike at any given price. And I will post our best deal at a similar price and I bet we can get lots of other people to post their ideas too. I would suggest race bikes at $1000, at $1300, and at $1600 – these are our most popular price points. But I am up for anything. However, I think we should leave Greg alone and not hi-jack this thread. 

Mike


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## indygreg

Let me say that I REALLY did not mean to start anything between two makers. I cannot say I am sorry enough about that.

When I looked at a fully configured DA bike on Leader's site, it was over $2000. This was the 736R. Admittedly I might have done the web page wrong (it is confusing to me - they have a 'group' but then also a crank . . . not sure if the group has the crank).

Most everything I read is that both places have great gear for great prices. I really like Leader in that they sell frames. Mike is moving to that as well.

Please - both of you - this is my fault. I poorly chose a seires of words that probably baited two people into posts. Sorry.

I think I will be very happy with my Mercier frame - it is a smoking deal at $1500. Off the charts good. To be honest, I just find the frame (color and design) to be very vanilla. As stupid as it is to many, I sort of like flashy things - brigther running shoes, etc. 

Please both feel free to pile on me, not each other.


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## fran2537

Indygreg,
i would take it to the LBS and pay to have a pro assemble it.
worth the few extra $$ to avoid the headaches. 
they can also help size you on to the bike.
my LBS was more than happy to help and their positive attitude keeps me coming back to them. if your LBS gives you attitude about the BD.com bike, my guess is that unless you are deep in the sticks, there is another LBS that would be happy to have your business.


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## covenant

bikesdirect said:


> {Sorry, Mr Covenant, in this case you are wrong – this thread is exactly where it should be, as a discussion of the process of selecting a bike, if I understand the forum correctly}


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## team_sheepshead

I'll preface this by saying I'm a big fan of the LBS in general. In NYC, there are owners, mechanics and employees that I call friends. They are far from perfect, but most of them do a great deal for the cycling community here, so I hope .com shops don't run them out of business.

Now that your .com bike is on the way, I hope you don't run into the following hassles:
1. LBS charges that eat into your savings. Around here, it's ~$75 for a build, and bike fitting starts at $100. Of course, those services are free if you buy from LBS.
2. I hope parts such as stem, bars and saddle fit comfortably. If not, I imagine you can return them to the .com, pay shipping costs and wait by the mailbox for new ones. 
3. I hope your wheels are in true and spoke tension is right. Otherwise, you'll pay to service them, either with your own time or $.
4. I hope you don't pay full retail for accessories, clothes, etc. People who buy a bike at the LBS usually get a discount on this stuff.
5. Most importantly, I hope the frame fits and rides comfortably. Personally,I can't imagine buying a first road bike without a test ride.

Best of luck. I look forward to your posts.


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## bikesdirect

*You were correct from the moderators point of view*

Mr Covenant, it seems the moderator agrees with you that this thread is only about a Mercier. I am a newbie here; so I do not get it.

It appears to me the thread is about the decision making process on a new bike and about the experience of buying online. I think it covers much more than just the bike. But maybe I am wrong.


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## bikesdirect

*I am not sure how they do it in NYC ... but*



team_sheepshead said:


> I'll preface this by saying I'm a big fan of the LBS in general. In NYC, there are owners, mechanics and employees that I call friends. They are far from perfect, but most of them do a great deal for the cycling community here, so I hope .com shops don't run them out of business.
> 
> Now that your .com bike is on the way, I hope you don't run into the following hassles:
> 1. LBS charges that eat into your savings. Around here, it's ~$75 for a build, and bike fitting starts at $100. Of course, those services are free if you buy from LBS.
> 2. I hope parts such as stem, bars and saddle fit comfortably. If not, I imagine you can return them to the .com, pay shipping costs and wait by the mailbox for new ones.
> 3. I hope your wheels are in true and spoke tension is right. Otherwise, you'll pay to service them, either with your own time or $.
> 4. I hope you don't pay full retail for accessories, clothes, etc. People who buy a bike at the LBS usually get a discount on this stuff.
> 5. Most importantly, I hope the frame fits and rides comfortably. Personally,I can't imagine buying a first road bike without a test ride.
> 
> Best of luck. I look forward to your posts.


I agree with you, LBS should not and will not be run out of business by online sellers. I have owned and operated many bike shops for the past 30 years. LBS serve an important role.

That role should not include trying to scare customers or punishing customers who purchased at mass merchants or online.

Greg will not run into any of the ‘hassles’ that you site. He will find it is easy to set the bike up himself and that it works great right out of the box. It takes me 20 minutes to do this job; so at $75 it is $225 an hour {kind of high for a bike mechanic}. Ninety percent of our online buyers do their own setup.

Wheels may need to be trued, but not until he as about 200 miles on the bike. [This is the case with any new upper end road bike]. Greg’s wheels are top of the line Ritchey Protocols, which hold up very well.

Fit is very unlikely to be an issue. I have sold hundreds of thousands bicycles in my career and have found that fit is personal. I can not tell you exactly what you need your seat, stem, bars, etc set at; nor do I think anyone can. I think as you ride you become aware of any small adjustments you need. Very very few of our customers either online or in stores have fit issues.

Parts and accessories prices which you bring up are easy. If the local shop is competitive, buy from him. If he is high, order online. There are lots of places that will be glad to sell you P&A, if the local guy wants too much. Several of my current stores are very close to Performance Shops; we of course expect that we meet their price or lose the sale. All of my stores compete with online P&A sellers. This is the economic system that we live in and it benefits all consumers. 

My guess is a bike with this equipment in NYC is about $3000 or more


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## dekindy

Why can't we all just get along?

We have a nice discussion going on the process of a mountain biker turned roadie buying a bike online and excited about sharing his experience. Now it is moved to an obscure forum where nobody will see it. I certainly would have not seen it. Even though I have decided to purchase everything possible from my LBS, I am keenly interested in his experience and want to hear about it.

Brian at LeaderBike
We appreciate the sponsorship of this website. But really, how many people reading this post and interested in buying a bike would not look at both the BikeDirect and LeaderBike websites and decide for themselves. At least that is how I would do it. I would use his experience and list all sources (from Indygreg and elsewhere) and go and investigate all of them and review and ask questions and decide myself. I would not let Indygreg make my decision for me. For awhile I was considering custom and collected the names and websites for every custom builder I saw recommended. That is how it is done. Instead of being defensive, you should have been grateful that you got a plug that might lead someone to your site that otherwise may not have considered it.

I would probably feel differently if I made my living selling bikes. But between Leaderbike and Covenant you have gotten this thread transferred to obscurity where it will never be seen and made Indygreg, a new member and excited about sharing his experience, self conscious and alienated.

Way to go! I hope Indygreg continues this discussion but I would not blame him if he did not. Maybe that is what Leaderbike and Covenant intended.

Indygreg - Sorry for the hassle. Please don't get discouraged and continue this discussion.


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## indygreg

*not an issue at all*

Honestly - I have been a big poster/member at many internet boards (golf, running, and more) . . . n00bs sometimes come in with good intentions and get beat up. Most of the time they learn the way of that board and end up being valuable posters of that site. This did not set me back a bit. When I posted this in the main board, I thought it made more sense . . . that people need to see this review to learn more about an on-line deal - especially from a newbie's POV. I see in this folder that there are a good number of reports about BD.com. Mine I am sure is welcome, but certianly not unique.

I am a classic addict. I really am. Most of my life I turn this into positive and get into good things. Biking is the new thing to me (that and swimming and TRI) . . . so I will be around here more than many will care for.. I am a n00b now - I will not be in a year. I do everything 100%. I will read everything I can touch, learn everything I can, put in miles as I can. 

I will learn the way - posting is not new to me - different places have different cultures.

That all said - DEK - thanks a ton for having my back. At this point we have a few PMs between us and you do not know me from the man on the moon. Thanks for caring.


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## covenant

dekindy said:


> We have a nice discussion going on the process of a mountain biker turned roadie buying a bike online and excited about sharing his experience.
> Now it is moved to an obscure forum where nobody will see it. But between Leaderbike and Covenant you have gotten this thread transferred to obscurity where it will never be seen and made Indygreg, a new member and excited about sharing his experience, self conscious and alienated.
> 
> Way to go! I hope Indygreg continues this discussion but I would not blame him if he did not. Maybe that is what Leaderbike and Covenant intended.


Every forum has a purpose....



gregg said:


> I created this forum to give cycling enthusiasts, and in particular, Motobecane and Mercier owners, a place to post about their favorite brand and something that we all love....bikes!
> -gregg, Site Manager
> [email protected]


Just be happy you have a forum for your particular brand of bike....otherwise you could have been thrown into the dreaded "Other Builders" forum.:cryin:

*on topic*:

indygreg,
Yes, please do take plenty of pictures. 

Everything from the box sitting on your front step, to each piece as you lovingly unpack it, all the way up to the fully built bike. I love that stuff. 
It's like getting a new bike by proxy. :thumbsup:


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## indygreg

team_sheepshead said:


> I'll preface this by saying I'm a big fan of the LBS in general. In NYC, there are owners, mechanics and employees that I call friends. They are far from perfect, but most of them do a great deal for the cycling community here, so I hope .com shops don't run them out of business.
> 
> Now that your .com bike is on the way, I hope you don't run into the following hassles:
> 1. LBS charges that eat into your savings. Around here, it's ~$75 for a build, and bike fitting starts at $100. Of course, those services are free if you buy from LBS.
> 2. I hope parts such as stem, bars and saddle fit comfortably. If not, I imagine you can return them to the .com, pay shipping costs and wait by the mailbox for new ones.
> 3. I hope your wheels are in true and spoke tension is right. Otherwise, you'll pay to service them, either with your own time or $.
> 4. I hope you don't pay full retail for accessories, clothes, etc. People who buy a bike at the LBS usually get a discount on this stuff.
> 5. Most importantly, I hope the frame fits and rides comfortably. Personally,I can't imagine buying a first road bike without a test ride.
> 
> Best of luck. I look forward to your posts.


Thanks for the post - but I largely do not agree. Yes, I am a n00b so clearly my POV might be less than ideal in many's view.
Fitting is the most over-hyped thing I have heard of. I have gone to 6 Indy area LBS's to look at bikes (and to be honest my idea was not to waste their time and buy on-line - is just ended up that way). Everyone put me at a 56 in less than 25 seconds of time. In every case I asked to try other sizes - they all complied but flat out told me I was wasting my time. This is fitting to a frame size. It is not rocket science. A billion web sites all put me on a 56 as well. BD.com took more time in emails than any LBS did in person.

A true fitting - perfect stem, seat, pedal, etc - is NOT free at a single LBS in this area. In fact only one local LBS even told me it was any cheaper if I bought a bike there.
www.bgindy.com is the 500lb gorrila in town here. They are over $175 PLUS $50 for pedals. Matthews is the other large one - they are over $100. Neither is a dime cheaper if you buy there. I tried to even negotiate them in the price of bikes - both said no.
Other smaller places were all at least $100.

And to those about geometry, etc . . . I rode 20+ local bikes and as a n00b I noticed so little difference in any changes in geo. I have no doubt that in a few years I will notice. Bottom line is that there is almost nothing I could do to get enough experience to tell a difference without buying a bike just to use for a year to toss. That just does not make sense to me, but that is a personal choice. I think with some tweaks/changes in a stem or seat will get more than close enough to a perfect fit for nearly anyone.

I do not want to bash my LBS' - that does not help anyone. My experience was not exactly bad - but did get to me at least consider on-line. All the posts here of how a local dealer will work with you, fit you, make changes, etc - that flat out did not happen. None would even consider swapping a part for an additional change. Basically it was you will have to buy the upgraded part at our price and put your existing new part in your garage.

I have spent a lot of money at two of these stores (matthews I spend over $2k for my MTB back in 1997 and so many things at BGI - fitness gear, over $500 in yakima gear, etc). They have never given me a penny off their price. In fact I got into a fight with them when I got a Yakima gear rack (basket thing) that they did not have in stock. They wanted me to pay shipping to have it shipped to THEM so I could come pick it up. I think they would probably come after you if you kept the rubber bands they have for your pants on a test ride.


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## dekindy

Thank goodness we got this thread in the right place. The World would probably have ended if it had stayed in the "General Discussion". I am analytical, but this is ridiculous! You would think somebody's life depended on this or lightning would have struck the server if it had not gotten changed.

BikesDirect
I think this got moved because Indygreg requested it. Or did the Forum police change it?

Covenant
I don't think the "Other Builders" forum would have been any worse. Does it only get read once a month instead of once every couple of weeks like this one?!


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## Lifelover

*You can't take the country out of the boy.*



dekindy said:


> Way to go! I hope Indygreg continues this discussion but I would not blame him if he did not. Maybe that is what Leaderbike and Covenant intended.
> 
> Indygreg - Sorry for the hassle. Please don't get discouraged and continue this discussion.



You need not worry. There is almost no chance that Indygreg or Bikesdirect have any intentions of ending this thread early.

However, if anyone wants the short version here it is.

The bike arrives very well packed sooner than expected.

Assembly is even easier than expected.

The paint and weld quality is better than expected and just as good as any bikes at the LBS.

The fit is pretty much spot on but he will consider changing the stem after he has more miles.

The saddle will be only so so.

The biggest surprise will be that the frame quality and ride will be amazing! He would never consider replacing it.


It is pretty easy exceed your expectations when they are so low to start with.


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## fran2537

lifelover,
I am a bit slow on the uptake. Are you suggesting that indygreg is something other than what he represents himself to be--i.e. a road bike newbie who wants to document his BD experience, presumedly for better or worse as it develops?
I admit his comments about leaderbike were perhaps misplaced and a bit suspect if you take a guilty until proven innocent approach. 
Won't time be the only judge--if the guy posts pictures and chronicles his experience honestly isnt that what this fourm is about?


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## dekindy

fran2537 said:


> lifelover,
> I am a bit slow on the uptake. Are you suggesting that indygreg is something other than what he represents himself to be--i.e. a road bike newbie who wants to document his BD experience, presumedly for better or worse as it develops?
> I admit his comments about leaderbike were perhaps misplaced and a bit suspect if you take a guilty until proven innocent approach.
> Won't time be the only judge--if the guy posts pictures and chronicles his experience honestly isnt that what this fourm is about?


This just occurred to me prior to reading your post. Conspiracy theorists and skeptics will never be in short supply!


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## indygreg

actually - I only mentioned Leader as I am interested in getting their frame. My intention was that i could put any maker in that post - big OEM or internet. I basically still think this is the case. I could take this bike at $1500 and then buy a Bianchi, Specialized, etc frame and my end result (that frame with full DA, protocol rims, etc) will be cheaper than that OEM would sell it for. This might not end up being the case with Leader - as I pointed out their site is confusing (doing the altering of a full bike).

I had a PM conversation with Leader since. I apologized for what seemed like baiting them. I really meant it. They were NOTHING but extremely nice. High priase for them.

Trust me - there will be no doubt of me being what I say I am. In even a month there will be no question. I will be a very actice member here - and it will be clear that I am an honest n00b and will ask some dumb questions (already going on in other threads). I will learn more and then eventually (hopefully) help other n00bs out. FYI I had over 10,000 posts on a popular golf site back when I was an out of shape fat golfer.


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## bikesdirect

*Greg - your comment and/or question on frame*



indygreg said:


> actually - I only mentioned Leader as I am interested in getting their frame. My intention was that i could put any maker in that post - big OEM or internet. I basically still think this is the case. I could take this bike at $1500 and then buy a Bianchi, Specialized, etc frame and my end result (that frame with full DA, protocol rims, etc) will be cheaper than that OEM would sell it for. This might not end up being the case with Leader - as I pointed out their site is confusing (doing the altering of a full bike).
> 
> I had a PM conversation with Leader since. I apologized for what seemed like baiting them. I really meant it. They were NOTHING but extremely nice. High priase for them.
> 
> Trust me - there will be no doubt of me being what I say I am. In even a month there will be no question. I will be a very actice member here - and it will be clear that I am an honest n00b and will ask some dumb questions (already going on in other threads). I will learn more and then eventually (hopefully) help other n00bs out. FYI I had over 10,000 posts on a popular golf site back when I was an out of shape fat golfer.



Greg

Hi

Your comment or question on frame is perfectly natural. You have nothing to apologize for. 

I have found when customers get a bike where the ‘known’ quantities [name brand components] are retailing for way more than the total bike price; the natural assumption is that the frame must be inferior. But actually cutting corners on frames does not save hardly anything.

The truth is: distribution costs and buying power have WAY more impact on total bike price than the frame. Frame cost on almost all bikes is below the cost of the wheels.

What you will find on the bike you ordered is a frame that is equal in quality to any full aluminum frame sold in bike shops. Now you can find differences in frames in the area of finish, geometry, materials, warranty, and resale value. But in quality of construction on full aluminum frames from Taiwan {most sold in bike shops} there is no difference.

You may find that in the future you want to change frames in order to:
1 – Experience different material
2 – Change look of your bike
3 - Change geometry
4 – You damaged your original frame 
5 – Just to have something to do

In the past, I have totally underestimated the frame market. This is mainly due to deals we get on total package bikes. I never thought so many people would want to buy just frames. I am in the process of changing that by offering frames only. 

Your Draco AL frame will serve you great for years and years. I look forward to your comments about that as time goes by.

Thanks Again

mike


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## Lifelover

LeaderBike said:


> We already advertise here on RBR.
> 
> We would like to set the record straight.
> 
> First off the bike you mention is $1500
> 
> We will not debate the frame qualities. Our customers do enough of the praising about Leader.
> 
> Leader does offer a 736R full dura ace bike starting at $1678
> 
> http://www.leaderbikestore.com/pd_ld_736r1.cfm
> 
> or you can go to the 717R full dura ace for $1518
> 
> both bikes include:
> 
> Standard features: FULL DURA ACE GROUP, LEADER FRAME, LEADER I802 CARBON FORK, LEADER SPA3 ALUMINUM SEAT POST, BONTRAGER RACE SELECT WHEELS, DEDA BIG LOGO BAR AND STEM, FIZIK ALIANTE SPORT TI SADDLE, CONTINENTAL GP TIRES, MICHILIN TUBES, DEDA BAR TAPE, ALL CABLES AND HOUSINGS.
> 
> Or how about a 796R full carbon Dura Ace bike for $1998
> 
> http://www.leaderbikestore.com/pd_ld_796r2.cfm
> 
> Brian C
> *Tel 619 425 6452*
> [email protected]
> www.leaderbikestore.com



Your website is impressive! It great to be able to customize your bike with the exact kind and size components that you need.

We are fortunate to have a internet retailer like you available. Keep up the good work and you will continue to have positive post about you bikes.

I have seen quite a few of your TT frames here at local events. Often they are being ridden by some of the front runners.


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## dekindy

*A little heads up would have been nice*

I have been reading prior posts on this forum and now understand why Indygreg's thread received such a gruff reception and handling. It still does not make it right but at least we would have known the score.

There are a lot of other threads on the general discussion that should be transferred to a manufacturers forum if you applied as strict a criteria to those threads as was applied to indygreg's. You made Indygreg apologetic and self conscious when he did absolutely nothing wrong.

I think Indygreg is owed an apology for the rude way he has been treated. I know he has brushed this off, but you guys are a long way from the moderation requested by the moderator and certainly did not make this newcomer feel welcome.


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## JayTee

Must've missed something that you saw about the "rough handling" that would indicate the need for some formal apology. Someone said it should be in the Moto forum, Greg said fine, it got moved. What am I missing? OTOH, I am puzzled by the exchange in this thread between the two companies, etc.


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## Lifelover

*I'll say I'm sorry!*



dekindy said:


> ..I think Indygreg is owed an apology...


Indygreg,

I'm sorry you decided to buy from BikesDirect. IMHO it is a mistake that has nothing to do with the quality of the bike. I'm sure the bike will serve you well but there are other things that should be considered when deciding to part with that much money. Even at a higher price, you would have been better served and most likely happier in the long run had you made the purchase from a company like Leader, Ibex, or RScycles.

Keep both tires on the road and you pedals spinning!


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## dekindy

*I will be glad to explain*



jtolleson said:


> Must've missed something that you saw about the "rough handling" that would indicate the need for some formal apology. Someone said it should be in the Moto forum, Greg said fine, it got moved. What am I missing? OTOH, I am puzzled by the exchange in this thread between the two companies, etc.


[/I]It is the difference between Leaderbikes letting a consumer post his thoughts and refraining from commenting. The sponsor had the same opportunity to recommend a bike when bikesdirect did and missed it.[/I]


[_It is the difference between welcoming someone and then gently explaining/suggesting how the forum works versus treating them like they are a veteran that should know better._


[/I]It is the difference between not ambushing newcomers and carrying over grudges to them as if they were part of the exchange. Does this title look familiar?[/I]
Site Manager Gregg calls for a Truce in this Forum: please read


[/I]It is the difference between making a post drenched in sarcasm and innuendo that the newcomer is a shill. Indygreg doesn’t know there have been a million of these posts and he is not tired of hearing them yet even if you are![/I]

Lifelover wrote
You need not worry. There is almost no chance that Indygreg or Bikesdirect have any intentions of ending this thread early.

However, if anyone wants the short version here it is.

The bike arrives very well packed sooner than expected.

Assembly is even easier than expected.

The paint and weld quality is better than expected and just as good as any bikes at the LBS.

The fit is pretty much spot on but he will consider changing the stem after he has more miles.

The saddle will be only so so.

The biggest surprise will be that the frame quality and ride will be amazing! He would never consider replacing it.


It is pretty easy exceed your expectations when they are so low to start with.



B]The following are all recent examples of threads that would have been moved if the same criteria were used that was applied to Indygreg’s post. And this is just the first page! I have been monitoring this forum religiously since last summer and I cannot recall anybody being questioned that their post was on the wrong discussion.[/I]


[/I]Nobody asked him to move this to the Pinarello manufacturers forum._

New Pinarello Paris Carbon
I don't pick it up until next week so I'm teasing here....no pictures.

Just bought:
Paris Carbon
FSA K-WIng carbon bars
Campy Chorus
'Pinarello' carbon compact crank
Campy Hyperon wheels--likely with Michelin Krylions (I'd like advice here)
Selle Italia trans am gel flow saddle

The LBS got a couple of frames directly from the factory (owner is a big dealer and he visited the factory and apparently they had make up 5 frames in various colors for a particular race and two were never used) at a great price. He is selling to me for about 40% off. It is nude carbon which Pinarello does not otherwise sell....so while it is a little more bland than the painted frames, it is a 'one of a kind'.
As well, I am getting the Hyperons for less than 1/2 price on a special factory deal.

Still not cheap but still a great value on a fabulous bike.

Pictures to follow.




Why wasn’t a request made to move this to bikes, frames, and forks

Reecommendation - your first time 
________________________________________
I want to build a bike from the frame/fork up. I've never built a bike before, but at the same time, I'm not a complete newb in mechanics or building in general. 

Is it recommended that I get a nice frame/fork ($700-900) or should I get something that is relatively cheap ($100-300)? I ask this because I'm wondering if people remember their first time building a bike and if they had problems with scratching, denting, or worse, damaging the frame/fork on their first try building a bike. 

If it's common to make those kinds of mistakes, then it's probably not worth getting a nice frame since I don't want to spend that much money on a guinea pig.

How were your first time experiences (i.e. did you damage the bike on your first build?) )and can you give this newb some advice on whether I should spend money on a nice frame/fork?



I don’t see anybody asking this to be moved to Bridgestone or Mercier/Motobecane.

Bridgestone Bikes..Back? 
________________________________________
Stumbled across an add for a Bridgestone Track bike in a European bike mag...

What's the word? Is Bridgestone back or has the name been purchased for marketing reasons similar to Mercier, Motobecane and others??_


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## indygreg

Wow. Seriously, get over yourself. Every internet forum has hot topics and some complete tools that are never wrong and have the social skills of a 3 toed sloth. I just stumbled into both on my first thread.

Explain to me how I would have been better served to spend a good deal more money? The other companies you list are also internet, so clearly you are not just a LBS bigot. Additionally, my listing of Leader in one of the threads was meant to be postive - sounds like they have a great product. I just thought apples to apples I could buy the bike I got, take the frame off, but a Leader frame, and still end up with a cheaper final price than if I bought a complete bike from leader. Now, the fine folks at Leader in PMs and in replies said that might not not be the case . . . I provided them feedback on their site (about making changes to a bike and the final price) that they thanked me for. They seem awesome - great to deal with. I have nothing against them.


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