# Andy, Andy, Andy. shakes head



## weltyed (Feb 6, 2004)

will someone please teach andy schleck how to shift. he looked completely cross chained when he seemingly dropped his chain. i know the mechanic should be able to tune the bike so it wont rub in this combination, but if he went from big ring/lil cog to lil ring lil cog he could throw his chain. gawd i hope he didnt try to shift both at once. maybe he needs one of those in-line indicators.

or maybe he needs one of these:


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## KMan (Feb 3, 2004)

shifting both at the same time is not a problem or big deal....you just need to take full torque off the cranks for that split second....do it all the time with no problems.


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## enac (Aug 24, 2007)

Blame it on Trek bicycles. Trek is awesome.


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## robdamanii (Feb 13, 2006)

:idea: Wait...isn't this a rehash of last year?


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## gamara (May 20, 2002)

robdamanii said:


> :idea: Wait...isn't this a rehash of last year?


Nah, its apples & oranges. Last year he was on sram. This year he's running shimano di2. It has to be the mechanics. I saw a lot of the other racers & many on the same hill were cross chained as well. I blame the mechanics because Fabian had a minor mechanical as well but fortunately it didn't cost him the win.


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## JoelS (Aug 25, 2008)

Someone needs to teach their mechanics how to properly adjust a front der. Or at least install a chain watcher of some sort to keep the dang thing from dropping.


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## robdamanii (Feb 13, 2006)

Yeah, after watching the whole stage some heads should be rolling in the service course tonight.


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## weltyed (Feb 6, 2004)

wow. ive been out to lunch. i didnt realize they were on di2. i know they claim there is no chainrub on that system, but dropping the chain? ouch. i still havent seen teh entire stage, just up until andy had the mechanical.


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## Gnarly 928 (Nov 19, 2005)

That is a little suspicious, two guys on the same equipment having shifting problems in one ~10 minute prologue...

I'd be leery of that D 12 stuff if professional racers and mechanics, best of the best, can't make it go a few miles without problems..

You can just bet Shimano had a factory guy in that Leopard Trek team caravan for this televised major race, making certain all the bikes were properly set up....Or....Maybe it was just a coincidence that those two bikes with that relatively new untried component gruppo with the fancy shifters and batteries had two shifting malfunctions....could happen... It just didn't happen to any of the other hundred-odd other guys riding that race...hmm.."bad luck" I guess...


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## mtrider05 (Aug 8, 2009)

I'm sure heads rolled at Leopard tonight, and what was with having no back up TT bike for Andy? One of the "lesser" riders I can understand, but a GC contender? Really?


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## Ventruck (Mar 9, 2009)

Maybe I'm thinking too much into it, but Andy did look much more comfortable on the road bike on the climb...

Btw video for anyone who didn't see it:





Cross-chain view at ~2:47, loses it at ~3:03.


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## orange_julius (Jan 24, 2003)

We refer to this as "to Schleck". So Andy Schleck-ed again, eh?

I bet Unibet has odds on whether he will Schleck again in this year's TdF. Or rather, how many times he will Schleck.


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## Andrea138 (Mar 10, 2008)

Gnarly 928 said:


> I'd be leery of that D 12 stuff ...


Yeah, they don't look too trustworthy to me, either...


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## spade2you (May 12, 2009)

Totally cross chained when he shifted.


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## rufus (Feb 3, 2004)

Andy doesn't strike me as the sharpest tool in the shed. Bonehead move.


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## cydswipe (Mar 7, 2002)

I was surprised Contador didn't attack him when he stopped to swap out bikes.


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## Salsa_Lover (Jul 6, 2008)

I am often crosschained at the start of the climbs and have never Schlecked the chain.

the comentators on the TSR2 were saying that Andy should go back to basic cycling school


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## 95zpro (Mar 28, 2010)

cydswipe said:


> I was surprised Contador didn't attack him when he stopped to swap out bikes.


He did, he blew by him so quick you missed it! Seriously Andy should just ride a fixie!


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## cyclesport45 (Dec 10, 2007)

He's such a Schleck!


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## kiroskka (Mar 9, 2008)

Ventruck said:


> Maybe I'm thinking too much into it, but Andy did look much more comfortable on the road bike on the climb...
> 
> Btw video for anyone who didn't see it:
> 
> ...


lol....

Nearly a year later and yet AS is still shifting like an idiot. It would seem not even Di2 can sustain a blow of such stupidity from AS


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## spade2you (May 12, 2009)

cydswipe said:


> I was surprised Contador didn't attack him when he stopped to swap out bikes.


I'm surprised RBR isn't upset that Contador didn't wait for him because everyone in the Western Hemisphere hates Contador.


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## MG537 (Jul 25, 2006)

*Get a Mac .......*

I mean Campy


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## spade2you (May 12, 2009)

MG537 said:


> I mean Campy


I somehow think Campy might not want to get blamed for Schleckanicals next year.


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## robdamanii (Feb 13, 2006)

How can someone be so stupid to toss a chain on Di2? I thought it was idiotproof?


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## kbwh (May 28, 2010)

Maybe Schleckproof must be even proofer?

On a serious note: Last year there were some Di2 trouble where mechanics used chain ring sizes for TTs that were not programmed into the system by Shimano at the time. Maybe the Leopard mechanics just discovered a new way to fool the Di2 brains?


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## rufus (Feb 3, 2004)

spade2you said:


> I somehow think Campy might not want to get blamed for Schleckanicals next year.


Well, he's shown he can't shift SRAM, and he doesn't do any better with Shimano, Campy's the only choice left. Look for them to be on the Leopard bikes next season.

And watch Andy drop his chain.


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## Tytelynes (Jan 31, 2007)

kbwh said:


> Maybe Schleckproof must be even proofer?
> 
> On a serious note: Last year there were some Di2 trouble where mechanics used chain ring sizes for TTs that were not programmed into the system by Shimano at the time. Maybe the Leopard mechanics just discovered a new way to fool the Di2 brains?


It's funny reading these posts. It sort of reminds me of the huge Takata seat belt recall of many moons ago. In the end, one of the huge auto manufacturers who used Takata belts ended up blaming the operators for jamming french fries in the seat belt latches and thus breaking the latches!

Being that it's electronic, why can't the programmers just tweak it so it can't be dumb-shifted?
No matter, this sure does not make the new Shimano system look pro grade.


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## spade2you (May 12, 2009)

rufus said:


> Well, he's shown he can't shift SRAM, and he doesn't do any better with Shimano, Campy's the only choice left. Look for them to be on the Leopard bikes next season.
> 
> And watch Andy drop his chain.


I think expecting any rig to not drop the chain while completely crosschained is unrealistic. If I did that on my bike, the chain would drop as well. 

Many moons ago, my shop taught me to make the front chainring changes while near the middle of the cassette since that's where it shifts easiest. Although, I must admit after last year's Schleckanical, I tend to make sure I'm not crosschained to avoid having the locals coin my name for that type of mistake.


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## orange_julius (Jan 24, 2003)

Tytelynes said:


> It's funny reading these posts. It sort of reminds me of the huge Takata seat belt recall of many moons ago. In the end, one of the huge auto manufacturers who used Takata belts ended up blaming the operators for jamming french fries in the seat belt latches and thus breaking the latches!
> 
> Being that it's electronic, why can't the programmers just tweak it so it can't be dumb-shifted?
> No matter, this sure does not make the new Shimano system look pro grade.


All devices have limitations, thus programmability is limited. The most severe limitations are probably on which sensors and actuators are available. Does anybody know if the Di2 is a position controller, or does it also monitor chain tension or other states of the gearing system?


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## MG537 (Jul 25, 2006)

One day in the not so distant future, we will be thanking Andy for his problems. 
One of the big three will develop a system where the rear cogs will move in and out depending on which gearing ratio we're at and thus eliminate any cross-chaining problems we experience today.


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## robdamanii (Feb 13, 2006)

If I were the mechanics I'd simply ask Shimano to write up a program that disallows cross chain gears as a teaching tool to the young doofus.


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## spookyload (Jan 30, 2004)

How to lose the TDF...losing 45 seconds in the prolouge last year. Losing 1"38 in a 7.1k prolouge here. Does he not realize these things count towards the GC.


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## Ventruck (Mar 9, 2009)

spade2you said:


> I'm surprised RBR isn't upset that Contador didn't wait for him because everyone in the Western Hemisphere hates Contador.


Seriously. I thought RBR was riding Schleck's **** but instead everyone's just poppin' about his doofus shifting.


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## weltyed (Feb 6, 2004)

okay, i finally saw fabian when he had trouble. he seemed to be cruising when he had his trouble. he was also able to recover. watching andy, he seems to not know the chain was thrown and started spinning. i know if you drop a chain to teh outside sometimes you can recover by pedaling and down shifting. but if you lose it to the inside, you gotta stop. and hope you didnt jam the chain into the bb or bridge area. 

as mentioned earlier, i do recall there being an issue with di2 and some larger chainring combinations. werent there also issues with rotor/asymetric chainrings?

as far as the backup tt bike, i was surprised by that as well. shoudnt this be a tour dress rehearsal for the first few stages? i would think that would be on the checklist. unless the uci read my thread about hating bike swaps, is looking tt initiate a "no bike change except for mechanicals" rule for le tour and leopard was just practicing making it look like there was a mechanical. ;0

finally, i can cobble a bike together and adjust shifting, braking, and wheels. The Boy, who is 5, cant. but he sure as shootin knows to NEVER STICK YOUR HAND NEAR A MOVING CHAIN AND COG/CHAINRING TEETH! when i saw that mechanic try to pull the chain back inline while andy was pedaling, i was certain there would be severed digits and blood on the asphalt.


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## cda 455 (Aug 9, 2010)

spade2you said:


> Totally cross chained when he shifted.


nOOB question:

So he was in 9th or 10th gear with the large chainring and shifted to the smaller chainring?


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## mtrider05 (Aug 8, 2009)

cda 455 said:


> nOOB question:
> 
> So he was in 9th or 10th gear with the large chainring and shifted to the smaller chainring?


Correct.


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## robdamanii (Feb 13, 2006)

weltyed said:


> finally, i can cobble a bike together and adjust shifting, braking, and wheels. The Boy, who is 5, cant. but he sure as shootin knows to NEVER STICK YOUR HAND NEAR A MOVING CHAIN AND COG/CHAINRING TEETH! when i saw that mechanic try to pull the chain back inline while andy was pedaling, i was certain there would be severed digits and blood on the asphalt.


I was wondering why he stuck his hand in the crankset while Andy was pedaling.


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## nOOky (Mar 20, 2009)

***sigh*** now I can't tease my Sram friends about Schlecking their chain anymore, seeing as how it's rider error and not the equipment.


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## gamara (May 20, 2002)

I still say its the mechanics on Leopard that are the idiots. They must have come with them from Saxo cause Contador had no problems cross chaining during the giro mountain time trial. I watched that live & he was in the 53x27 on some of the steep sections when other guys were in the small ring it & he go on to win it.


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## mtrider05 (Aug 8, 2009)

gamara said:


> I still say its the mechanics on Leopard that are the idiots. They must have come with them from Saxo cause Contador had no problems cross chaining during the giro mountain time trial. I watched that live & he was in the 53x27 on some of the steep sections when other guys were in the small ring it & he go on to win it.


You can crosschain all day long, it's the shifting from that configuration that Andy likes to do.


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## den bakker (Nov 13, 2004)

weltyed said:


> okay, i finally saw fabian when he had trouble. he seemed to be cruising when he had his trouble. he was also able to recover. watching andy, he seems to not know the chain was thrown and started spinning. i know if you drop a chain to teh outside sometimes you can recover by pedaling and down shifting. but if you lose it to the inside, you gotta stop. and hope you didnt jam the chain into the bb or bridge area.


really? I've recovered a chain that fell on the inside by pedaling and shifting back on the big chainring.


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## Ripton (Apr 21, 2011)

MG537 said:


> One day in the not so distant future, we will be thanking Andy for his problems.
> One of the big three will develop a system where the rear cogs will move in and out depending on which gearing ratio we're at and thus eliminate any cross-chaining problems we experience today.


That could work if you want huge rear drop out spacings.


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## Salsa_Lover (Jul 6, 2008)

Di2 brains ?

FFS it is only a front derailer, what can be dumber than that ?


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## MattSoutherden (Jun 24, 2009)

rufus said:


> Campy's the only choice left.


When you whack both the thumb levers on Campy, isn't that colloquially known as a 'double drop'?

Maybe Andy should steer clear of that. :lol:


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## ZoSoSwiM (Mar 7, 2008)

Looks like he needs dork disks and chain guides.. Freeride mountain bikers might be able to help him..


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## Bullvine (Sep 9, 2009)

gamara said:


> Nah, its apples & oranges. Last year he was on sram. This year he's running shimano di2. It has to be the mechanics. I saw a lot of the other racers & many on the same hill were cross chained as well. I blame the mechanics because Fabian had a minor mechanical as well but fortunately it didn't cost him the win.


Holy Cow and here I thought it was SRAM but it's not he breaks all of his toys..

Maybe he should go with 105 or even better Tiagra the dial on the hoods could help.
No No Campy for Schleck until he learns to play nice.


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## izzyfly (Jul 10, 2009)

Salsa_Lover said:


> Di2 brains ?
> 
> FFS it is only a front derailer, what can be dumber than that ?


maybe the di2 programming was 'outsourced' ? :-/)


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## K&K_Dad (Dec 10, 2008)

izzyfly said:


> maybe the di2 programming was 'outsourced' ? :-/)


or the latest Mac OS?


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## Ripton (Apr 21, 2011)

Time for an Andy Cam pointing at his drive train with overlay data from his Di2 and powermeter for the tech nerds to rack up countless forum pages of e-speculation


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## weltyed (Feb 6, 2004)

den bakker said:


> really? I've recovered a chain that fell on the inside by pedaling and shifting back on the big chainring.


i dont think ive ever been able to do that. i have tried, but the chain is usually down at the bb and the front mech didnt throw it far enough to get teeth. in fact, i think i might have mucked it up more doing that.

of course, this never happens to me anymore. i am such an ace mechanic i never have any sort of issues with my drivetrain


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## robdamanii (Feb 13, 2006)

Salsa_Lover said:


> Di2 brains ?
> 
> FFS it is only a front derailer, *what can be dumber than that* ?


Apparently Andy Schleck...


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## ilmaestro (May 3, 2008)

mtrider05 said:


> You can crosschain all day long, it's the shifting from that configuration that Andy likes to do.


Even still - if your stops are adjusted nicely you aren't necessarily going to throw a chain when you try to shift from that position.


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## ronderman (May 17, 2010)

OK, but that dude looked extra funny with a TT helmet on a regular road bike. Just saying . . . .


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## evs (Feb 18, 2004)

HAHA he needs a rohloff hub lol . What is he doing? I go over a couple of hills for 20 seconds or so cross chained and I don't drop a chain. Did he drop a chain or break it?
Whats up wit dat?


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## ultimobici (Jul 16, 2005)

Nah, Shlecklet needs to ditch the gears altogether and get one of these.








As long as he has it set up on freewheel he'll be OK. Fixed doesn't bear thinking about!


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## ultimobici (Jul 16, 2005)

Having ridden the first part of the course several times before I am amazed that he opted to stay in the big ring that far up the climb. Even without riding it it is obvious that it is too steep to roll up in the 53 on TT bars but AS does seem to be too dumb to realise this. The climb is an average of 6.3% but that part is more like 8%+. 

To those who suggest that Campag is his only option, why would Campag want to expose their product to such a disaster?


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## MattSoutherden (Jun 24, 2009)

:idea: I have an idea.

Trek/Bontrager have a deal with HED for wheel tech. Leotard are on Shimano.

So, Andy should use an Alfine 11-speed hub laced to Aeolus rims for regular stages, and into a Stinger disc for TTs.

:thumbsup:


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## Ventruck (Mar 9, 2009)

MattSoutherden said:


> :idea: I have an idea.
> 
> Trek/Bontrager have a deal with HED for wheel tech. Leotard are on Shimano.
> 
> ...


And in addition they should take the extra measure, and go against sponsorship for a second with a SRAM Hammerschmidt crankset.

But I bet Andy will still be dropping chains.


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## ultimobici (Jul 16, 2005)

Got it!


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## MattSoutherden (Jun 24, 2009)

Hehe. 

I guess you were at the nocturne on Saturday then. Really impressive ride by AD in the crit.


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## kbwh (May 28, 2010)

MattSoutherden said:


> When you whack both the thumb levers on Campy, isn't that colloquially known as a 'double drop'?
> 
> Maybe Andy should steer clear of that. :lol:


Mmm, yeah. Works for me, but Andy is probably able to mess that up too. 
Getting Andy on Campagnolo would lead to very bad publicity. Better to have Gilbert on Campagnolo also next year I think.


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## rep (Nov 30, 2005)

Remember the good old days when your derailleur would just explode when you did a bad shift?


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