# Leaky Hutchinson Atom Tubeless tires, what a pain. Hurry Conti!



## gibbons (Nov 9, 2002)

I use Hutchinson Atom tubeless tires on Campy Shamal Ultra 2-ways. I went to this set up from Edge tubulars with Continental 4000 tubulars for disaster avoidance, as I commute 30 miles and half that is through the boonies. I carry an emergency tube, that's not an option with tubulars.

ya know, I really like the tubeless set up. I have rolled downhill with a lot of bikes, including lots of deep carbon tubulars, and these have out-rolled everything ever except for some Zipp tubulars that looked like they were about 100mm depth. Other than that, I am on my brakes to maintain the speed of a coasting descending group. They roll like crazy. 

BUT... the tires are a pain sometimes. I have a new set of two, and they leak down 60 psi overnight. Putting them in the bath tub when my wife isn't looking, I see little bubbles coming out the sidewalls between the tread and sidewall itself, all the way around. I had one last year that did this, too. I put Stans in to do LOTOJA, and the problem went away. But last week, I noticed a bulge on the thread, just off of the wear pattern. It was about the size of half a pea. I risked it and rode to work anyway. I deflated the tire once there, and re-inflated to ride home. When I got home, it was still the same. About an hour later, I noticed it was growing. I went to get my camera, and 30 seconds later, it was getting huge and growing before my eyes, like the size of a grape! Oh crap, this was in my kitchen, and I didn't want to explode Stan's all over the place. 

I quickly deflated it, and bought the two new tires. The shop said Stans can eat tubeless. But it worked pretty good for the sidewall leaks. 

So, what to do, I love the tires, but don't have great confidence in them without stans. But did Stans cause the delamination in the last one that almost blew?

Anyone else seeing these games?


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## DIRT BOY (Aug 22, 2002)

Stan's new formula will not eat tubeless tires. I use it for years in my MTB wheels. Schwalbe Doc Blue, caffe latex, Hutchinson Fast Air or others will solve and fix all minor leaks.

Or make your own latex!!I do. Get Mold Builder latex, add some Slime Tubeless formula and there you go! No more tires breaking down.

Sounds like the bulge was just a bad tire.


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## ukbloke (Sep 1, 2007)

gibbons said:


> So, what to do, I love the tires, but don't have great confidence in them without stans. But did Stans cause the delamination in the last one that almost blew?


I find it hard to believe that Stans caused that issue. Have you inspected the tire to see what kind of damage there was at this spot? Is there a partial puncture on the outside or inside? Or a visible manufacturing defect in the tire? How many miles on it? Front or rear?

I can see how Stans would fix a porous tire sidewall. It can also solve minor leak issues in the rim/tire interface or other places on the rim. However, IMHO, a new tubeless tire should not be leaking air like that in the first place. Depending on how significant the leakage was and how confident I was that it was really due to the sidewalls leaking, I would probably return and exchange them.


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## strathconaman (Jul 3, 2003)

Try the Fusion III Tubeless tires. A little more rubber than the Atoms. Might help.


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## dougrocky123 (Apr 12, 2006)

*Mixed feelings also*

I have two sets of Dura Ace tubeless wheels. I've tried Fusion 2's, 3's, and Intensives. Some tires inflate easy and hold pressure well and others are a pain. I've tried sealents on some and nothing on others. Two things have helped keep the pressure up. First is to over inflate (say 120 psi ) to get them to seal and then lower them down to my usual 90 psi. Secondly if I have leaks around the rim I rotate the tire a quarter turn and reinflate. Sometimes I just want to switch back to tubes!


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## Gilarider (Jan 11, 2011)

*Stan's did this to me, too*

What happens is a puncture gets sealed up by the stans and the liquid starts to work its way between the tread and the casing and the tread starts coming unglued. Then the air pressure eventually causes a big blister to pop up, full of stans. 

The moral of the story is: patch up any sizable punctures from the inside. I would say buy something other than Hutchinson-made tires, but that is hard to do. When somebody else starts manufacturing a big, tough, tubeless road tire I will go back to tubeless, but for now the tires don't hold up long enough in my area to justify the price to train on them.

PS: I used Hutchinson sealant also, which is not supposed to eat the tires, and it seemed OK, but it does not seal all that well with my converted wheels, and would leak down after sitting a few days and break the bead seal. Then it sometimes was difficult to seat it back up, even with a compressor. The price on the Hutch. sealant put me off, too, especially after I had to add more to get it to re-seal. If I had tubeless ready rims, I would run the Hutch. sealant and probably love it. It just got to be too big a hassle with what I had.


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## pablotn (Oct 11, 2008)

Interesting you bring this up because I have two Fusion 3s exhbit the same issue concerning sidewall leakage with one more extreme than the other. Others on this forum have run into this also. I have often wondered if some latex would heal it because the leakage is fairly slow.

But it does beg the question, just what is going on with these tires? Bad run? Bad design? Bad materials? It seems to be inconsistent because the last set I bought through another vendor do not have the issue.

Curious I say, curious!

pablo


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## Brazos (Jun 20, 2009)

Strange. I am on month number number 9 with Atom tubeless tires with no problems. I put sealant (Stans) in my tires after the first month to 6 weeks for some extra puncture assurance before 3 80 mile charity rides. No problems everything works great. Sounds like a tire issue but none the less doesn't sound good. At this point I feel my tires are just fine. Gilarider has a sensible explaination as to why this might happen on road tubeless (with high pressures) and not mountain bike tires (with low pressures).


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## FTR (Sep 20, 2006)

My Stans 340's laced to DA hubs are abo****ely the ducks nuts.
Currently running them with Kenda Kriteriums and tubes.
Could not get them to hold air full stop with Atoms tubeless.
An expensive mistake IMO.


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## ColoRoadie (Aug 5, 2010)

FTR said:


> My Stans 340's laced to DA hubs are abo****ely the ducks nuts.
> Currently running them with Kenda Kriteriums and tubes.
> Could not get them to hold air full stop with Atoms tubeless.
> An expensive mistake IMO.


My 340's show up today...I hope yours is an isolated issue! I have not read a lot if bad reviews in here.


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## FTR (Sep 20, 2006)

ColoRoadie said:


> My 340's show up today...I hope yours is an isolated issue! I have not read a lot if bad reviews in here.


Not blaming the wheels.
They are fantastic.
Tubeless on the other hand.....meh!!


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## bholwell (Jan 22, 2008)

FTR said:


> Not blaming the wheels.
> They are fantastic.
> Tubeless on the other hand.....meh!!


In another thread you claimed that your leak is from the valve stem, but you weren't using the "road" valve stem. Yet you have a problem with tubeless road because....???


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## FTR (Sep 20, 2006)

bholwell said:


> In another thread you claimed that your leak is from the valve stem, but you weren't using the "road" valve stem. Yet you have a problem with tubeless road because....???


Now have the road valve stems.blem. Same pro


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## vortechcoupe (Jun 6, 2006)

FTR, 
You must be doing something wrong. Smallest hole possible in the tape for the valve?

I taped up 2 kinlin nio 30 rims with 2 wraps of stans yellow tape and valve stems. Used my soapy water spray bottle and put atoms on both without tools and they aired up perfect 1st try. I deflated them, added stans juice and they have been fine for maybe almost a year I think, not a ton of miles, around 800.


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## bartman601 (Nov 1, 2005)

I taped and sealed up some Fusion III's on Rol wheels and really like the feel of this set up after a year with only 1 flat. I run around 85-90 psi. It's kinda crazy that I actually enjoy this setup better than my tubbie 404's!


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## FTR (Sep 20, 2006)

vortechcoupe said:


> Smallest hole possible in the tape for the valve?


Yep.
I am done with them.
Now running them with tubes and Conti 4 Seasons.
Happy with the result.
Just need to find a buyer for the Atom's and Stan's valve stems.


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## alexcomp (Apr 11, 2011)

*ME TOO! Tiny little bubbles straight thru sidewall*

I bought used DuraAce 7850 SL wheels with new Hutchinson Atom tires thrown in. One will hold air for a few days and the other, (mounted on rear), will leak down to soft overnight. I water bathed it expecting the problem to be around the valve and was amazed to see dozens of tiny little beads forming on the sidewall.

Reminds me of the old saying, "tire was so worn out you could see the air throught it". The tire has a shot of Caffe Latex and this doesn't solve the problem. It looks like I'll have to throw in a tube or replace with something less porous. It's a shame as I like the feel when riding - I can get through a ride no problem althought I'm probably down a few pounds, or more, at the end.

I found the Hutchinson Group contact page.
http://www.hutchinson.fr/accueil/contactez-nous-3449.html
I've sent them a complaint and made reference to this thread. Anyone else with this problem should also send an email. The contact page is in French but I'm betting they'll get it ok.


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## masfish1967 (Mar 3, 2010)

I have been running the DA 7850SL with Atoms for the past year and after 8000 miles I have found the ideal set up is to replace the stock valve stems with the Stans removable valve cores, use 2 oz sealant per tire, and ride on until the rear tire needs to be changed then move front tire to back, new tire on front, clean/add sealant and ride on.
I did not use sealant for the first 6 months and would have to add air before every ride, more so on the rear. Since using sealant, I have to add air less frequently. I have had two flats and it was when i did not run sealant. I ran over a mystery item that punctured the tire but was able to patch (self adhesive patches on inner tire wall) and finished ride both times without putting in a tube.
I think the real trick is to use rims that support tubless without having to convert and sealant. Hope i do not see a flat for a few more years......


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## alexcomp (Apr 11, 2011)

*Will the 2 oz of sealant fix the problem of leaking*

My tires lead straight through the sidewalls. I'm not sure sealant would fix this. What do you think?


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## pmt (Aug 4, 2009)

alexcomp said:


> My tires lead straight through the sidewalls. I'm not sure sealant would fix this. What do you think?


It might, but the sealant has to be *on the sidewalls*, not puddled up on the bottom. You have to lay the wheel sideways so the sealant flows to the leaky area; using a kiddie pool is perfect for figuring this out.


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## AJL (Jul 9, 2009)

Thanks for the reports. I'm buying new tires this year and thought a bit about tubeless - sounds like a bit of a crap shoot to me.


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## pmt (Aug 4, 2009)

AJL said:


> Thanks for the reports. I'm buying new tires this year and thought a bit about tubeless - sounds like a bit of a crap shoot to me.


Hardly. I've done thousands of kilometers on Road Tubeless, including many 200k rides.


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## pcs2 (Sep 4, 2006)

Have around 500km on fusion 3's, Shamal wheels, and no sealant. Really like these wheels/tires. Run at 100/105 f/r for ~210 lb rider. Mounted the tires by hand, no levers, and inflated with a floor pump. Pretty easy, although I do have experience with mtb tubeless.


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## DonDenver (May 30, 2007)

pcs2 said:


> Have around 500km on fusion 3's, Shamal wheels, and no sealant. Really like these wheels/tires. Run at 100/105 f/r for ~210 lb rider. Mounted the tires by hand, no levers, and inflated with a floor pump. Pretty easy, although I do have experience with mtb tubeless.


pcs2...Good to hear this. Also...do you lube the bead/rim with the first install and do you mount going towards the valve stem? Thx.

Nevertheless..._if_ I'm reading the OP right; it is disturbing to find air leaking from sidewall (not the bead/rim interface).


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## pcs2 (Sep 4, 2006)

DonDenver said:


> pcs2...Good to hear this. Also...do you lube the bead/rim with the first install and do you mount going towards the valve stem? Thx.
> 
> Nevertheless..._if_ I'm reading the OP right; it is disturbing to find air leaking from sidewall (not the bead/rim interface).


I didn't use any lube on the bead/rim, although I'm sure it would have helped. I have also heard of some people warming up the tires in the dryer. Mine went on, not easily, but I avoid using levers. My hands are rather large and strong though.....I have a hard time using small phones due to sausage fingers  

I installed going away from the valve stem, not sure why, but I've always done it this way (mtb tubeless, clincher). 

It sounds like the Atom tire has a thin casing to reduce weight (racing tire), hence the leaking air from sidewalls. I had a set of mtb tires (non-tubeless) that I mounted tubeless which leaked air from the sidewalls. I remedied that using 1 scoop of stan's sealant per tire and shaking/riding for a few minutes.


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## AJL (Jul 9, 2009)

Here's some suggestion from Lennard Zinn: Tubeless tires w/slow leak


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## LeviOlsen (Apr 11, 2011)

If you are having problems with sidewall leakage i would use a shot of Fast Air which is liquid latex propelled by propane to completely seal the inside of the tire and the bead interface. the fast air will actually dry out and create an additional layer of sealing on the inside of the tire. you can also use some Protect air max. ProTect Air Max is the hutchinson branded sealant that is completely neutral and is also the only sealant approved by Shimano Japan. if you are using any sealant it is a good idea to ride for about 5km after putting sealant into the tires to led it coat the inside and work its way into the tire casings. 
all of the road tubeless tires feature an additional layer of Butyl on the inside of the tire to help with air retention but there can sometimes still be air loss. if you are experiencing excessive air loss add some sealant, and make sure your tire is completely seated. also make sure that you have installed the valve stem correctly and use soap and water when putting the tire on. avoid using tire levers at all cost when installing as this can cut into the bead and create a place for air leaks to happen. if you have questions on installs you can contact Hutchinson North America.


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## jetvagabond (Aug 10, 2009)

pmt said:


> Hardly. I've done thousands of kilometers on Road Tubeless, including many 200k rides.



Agreed. I put serious miles on mine as well. I've been using Hutchinsons along with their sealant on Fulcrum Racing Ones and Zeros and have had no problems. Getting the tire on the first time has me muttering colorful things at times. Aside from that, I find the superlative ride qualities and astounding puncture resistance worth a little elbow grease.


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