# dumb question - Mirrors?



## rugger (Mar 1, 2005)

I use one of those third eye things on my helmet, and I actually find it very helpful in many cases, such as being able to see cars behind me, ap[rticularly when the wind is so loud, I can't hear the cars, or when descending, it's helpful to know if there's someone behind me, without having to crane my neck and possibly lose my balance at high speed, or hit a bump/crack in the road.. 

The thought occurred after watching the real racers, why would they not wear mirrors to be able to check who is mounting a threat? is it considered a cycling faux pas? is it because of aerodynamics? Is it a macho thing?

just curious, I find it very handy.


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## 55x11 (Apr 24, 2006)

Because they can get this info on the radio. Like in one of the early tours when Lance dropped Pantani, but he was 5 feet back - think about it - the camera guy on the motorcycle took a shot of how much of a gap Armstrong opened up - which was beamed to the helicopter, which was beamed to the station, which was beamed to the satellite, which was broadcast all over the world, including the tiny TV in the car behind the lead group with Johann Bruneel, so he can tell Lance over the radio: "you opened a 5 foot gap!". Crazyness!!!


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## rugger (Mar 1, 2005)

Well, that is interesting the technology is that accurate, but then, the racers always seem to be glancing backwards, and in some cases they do it quite frequntly, so despite the technology, they still look behind. I can't see how a mirror would give a disadvantage


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## rugger (Mar 1, 2005)

yeah, ok so I'm a dweeb on the road, whatever. 

But the question still is why would it not offer an adavantage to the racers?  According to the previous post, it seems like a style/form issue. For the roads I travel, it really is a safety enhancer. 

It's kind of analagous to when i was younger, how it was "uncool" to wear a seatbelt in a car, until a few of my friends got killed. Or how some motorcycle riders won't wear helmets. Is it a similar issue with mirrors in racing?


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## Live Steam (Feb 4, 2004)

rugger said:


> yeah, ok so I'm a dweeb on the road, whatever.
> 
> But the question still is why would it not offer an adavantage to the racers? According to the previous post, it seems like a style/form issue. For the roads I travel, it really is a safety enhancer.
> 
> It's kind of analagous to when i was younger, how it was "uncool" to wear a seatbelt in a car, until a few of my friends got killed. Or how some motorcycle riders won't wear helmets. Is it a similar issue with mirrors in racing?


They don't really want to wear helmets and you want them to wear mirrors?


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## rugger (Mar 1, 2005)

But most of the time they are wearing helmets (I think), usually it only seems like the climbs that they don't, but then they have them on at descents? Or am I not watching closely enough?


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## WAZCO (Sep 16, 2004)

rugger said:


> But most of the time they are wearing helmets (I think), usually it only seems like the climbs that they don't, but then they have them on at descents? Or am I not watching closely enough?


I don't find the mirror all that useful. In fact I find the head check or Body check more convient than the mirror. I can really get a better picture of what's behind me in quick second. IMO and experience looking in a mirror for a second really doesn't give me enough details which would force me to look longer than a second to see what's going on. By then I'm serving off the road. With head/body check, it's really less than a second and you get a whole panoramic shot. Maybe it's a youth thing but I'm 38 and that's not so young.

Also, in races, they get whole road and not 0-5 feet of bike lane. Having that luxury, they can afford to swerve and not worry about other riders or going off the road. Remember The Look? LA examined for a good 3-5 seconds at Jan and where his teamates were before he attacked. 









In TDF, they have to wear helmet at all time. I believe that started enforcing that a couple of year ago.


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## Guest (Jul 4, 2006)

Many of us when we were young and learning how to spend long days ina saddle learned bike handling skills including how to look over your shoulder while keeping a straight line.

I suspect most pro racers have also mastered this skill.


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## TheKid (Jun 5, 2002)

I use a mirror while riding. All of the posts putting down the use of a mirror are probably from those who have never used one. I recommend that you at least try a mirror before dismissing it. I have used it on solo training rides and in group rides and it makes it much easier to be aware of traffic and other riders. I agree that you should not trust your mirror completely but it is much different having to look back to confirm something than to figure out what is there. Plus since it is so quick and easy to look behind you with the mirror you do it much more frequently than when you have look back.

I also ride where there are a lot of group rides and they are not very considerate when passing a single rider. I rarely get any warning until they are right on me and since they are riding two or three across it is very tight as the group passes. With a mirror I rarely get surprised but without it I am amazed how fast a group at over 25 mph can come up from behind.

As far as being used by Tour riders, that is a whole different level of bike skill and experience. But I have had the same question as Rugger on why no one uses them.


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## Bryn (Jul 9, 2005)

Why not install kick stands on their bikes so they don't have to worry about finding somewhere to lean them? Or even a camelbak so they don't have to waste energy to grab their bottles? If these things somehow advantaged the pro's im pretty sure they'd already have them.


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## philippec (Jun 16, 2002)

B/c it's one more thing that can puncture your eye when you go down hard in the peleton ... if the UCI hasn't already banned them, they should! (this applies only to the "post" mirror styles, not the handlebar-end mounted or little stick on mirrors for your glasses). Secondly, like others have said, checking out your surroundings with a wide field of vision provides you with much more info than scanning it secon-hand via a 1-inch (if that!) mirror. If you cannot do this w/out changing your line, then you really have no business racing. Thirdly, racers are not "spooked" by riders approaching quickly from behind -- indeed, it is their lot in life. If you cannot handle riding ion flowing and extremely tight packs, then you have no business racing.

I think a better question to ask is why Pro riders don't wear their bibs over their jerseys? It would make urinating while riding much easier and I am sure that their clothing suppliers could find some way of getting all the sponsor logo on the bibs to work with the logos on the jerseys.

And while I'm at it, where do riders put their cell phones and cameras when riding. I think that they could use some of those little neoprene frame-mounted carriers to safely stow this essentail gear. 

They could also ride with large under-the-saddle bags so that they could store their energy bars and other food -- it seems that this would avoid a lot of the accidents that take place in the feed zones....

I think I'm on a roll here!

A+

Philippe


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## Inspector Gadget (Apr 5, 2002)

*In the Glasses*

Mirrors are personal choices for safety and peace of mind. They are not Fred Accessories.
I had trouble adjusting a hemlet mounted mirror so I could what I needed, so I abandoned that method. Ditto for the mirror that clips to the side of my glasses.
I eventually picked up a small mirror that mounts inside the lens of my riding glasses (Cycle-Ops?). It sits outside my direct line of sight, but but with a quick glance I can take in quite a bit of info behind me. People on group rides that don't know it's there wonder how I know cars are behind us so quickly. I find it much better and safer than looking over my shoulder. I haven't quite mastered looking over my shoulder and always holding a straight line, (I do not race) plus I have a bum neck, so the mirror is a Godsend for me. It has become instinct. If I use a pair of glasses w/o out the mirror mounted in them, I still find myself trying to glance into it.
There are also small bar-plug mirrors available that would be pretty discreet for those afraid of looking like "Freds." I don't know how well they work.
It seems logical that the pros have the skills to look behind them safely and therefore don't need mirrors.
However, if racers used mirrors, then we never would have had "The Look.":thumbsup:


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## filtersweep (Feb 4, 2004)

While I would never wear a mirror racing, they are very practical for commuting-- and yes, you can trust mirrors better than your own eyes if you drive a truck, for example.




kpcw said:


> No, not a dweeb.
> 
> Just this, do you trust what you see in a mirror? I have side mirrors and a rear view in my car, still I look with my own eyes, over my shoulders etc.
> 
> ...


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## Armchair Spaceman (Jun 21, 2003)

*UCI rules...*

From the UCI's Rules, Part 1, Section 1.3.031:3:

" Each rider shall be responsible for:..using only a helmet that has not been altered or had any element added or removed in terms of design or form..."

and from S 1.3.033:

"It shall be forbidden to wear non-essential items of clothing..."

OK, so playing barrack-room lawyer for a minute, fitting a helmet mirror would be considered an alteration or an element added to a helmet under 1.3.031:3. 

Given also that a helmet is covered by the UCI rules on clothing rather than rules on equipment, a helmet mirror might be regarded a "non-essential item of clothing" under 1.3.033. 

All that said, helmet mirrors just aren't roadie chic...you don't see tour riders eating trail mix and sporting big smelly beards either...


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## Guest (Jul 4, 2006)

I'd be interested in knowing how well bar end mirrors work - the helmet mounted ones cause me to spend too much time trying to get see what was behind me. As for the pros - there are no damn cars on the course, so it's tons easier just to have a look around.


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## pavedroad (May 3, 2004)

I used a little helmet mounted mirror for a little bit, but I didn't like it for two reasons. I didn't like how it was always visible. Even though it was small and in my peripheral vision, it still annoyed me. Also, I didn't think it gave a wide enough field of view behind me. I had it aimed so that while I was looking ahead, I could see if a car was coming straight up the lane next to me. If I was on a curve or something I'd have to scan across with the little mirror while it was much easier to just turn my head and look back. 

Eventually I learned how to turn my head while holding a straight line (mostly by screwing around on rollers, hah) so it's not really a big deal. I can hear oncoming traffic virtually all of the time, the exceptions being other bicycles and hybrids when their gas engines are off. Those hybrids can really sneak up on ya!


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## mohair_chair (Oct 3, 2002)

There are plenty of vehicles on the course, but they are required to use those beep-beep horns when they come near the riders.


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## SHVentus (Mar 15, 2004)

rugger said:


> I use one of those third eye things on my helmet, and I actually find it very helpful in many cases, such as being able to see cars behind me, ap[rticularly when the wind is so loud, I can't hear the cars, or when descending, it's helpful to know if there's someone behind me, without having to crane my neck and possibly lose my balance at high speed, or hit a bump/crack in the road..
> 
> The thought occurred after watching the real racers, why would they not wear mirrors to be able to check who is mounting a threat? is it considered a cycling faux pas? is it because of aerodynamics? Is it a macho thing?
> 
> just curious, I find it very handy.


The more information you can have of your surroundings while riding, the better & safer. If young Top Gun pilots can have mirrors in their cockpits to help see bandits sneaking up from behind & during dogfights, in addition to their youthful heads on a swivel 24/7, it's gotta be a good thing. I'll be a Fred.

That said, I've tried the Third Eye mirror, and a couple of similar design (helmut mounted & eyeglass mounted), but found them:

1. too limited in field of vision
2. to cause me to focus all of my attention into the mirror (ignoring, or subduing other sights/inputs)
3. easily became misaligned (knocked out of position)
4. a potential hazard during a crash
5. fragile
6. Difficult to rapidly change focus from distant front, to close-up mirror rear
7. etc.

Then I went to the "Fred" of all mirrors, the Blackburn handlebar road mirror, but found that road vibration interfered sometimes (the mount is flimsy), and it didn't allow a good ergonomic & comfortable hood riding position. So I made my own CF STI conforming mount for this mirror that works great. I can ride on the hoods without ANY change in hand position what-so-ever. Vibration is minimal to non-existant, field of vision is great with rapid acquisition from forward to rearward field of vision, easily adjusted, and safe. 

Recently, I found these Italian road mirrors on Ebay. They're less conspicuous & work great. They still add a little weight for the WW (approx 55 gm each), and are still mirrors for you Fred-wardrobe conscious people: 

http://cgi.ebay.com/Italian-ROAD-BI...ryZ42319QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

Ride safe.


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