# SRAM Apex with upgrades



## trail2street (Nov 22, 2011)

I am trying to decide between two bike options. One is nearly $700 less than the other. The cheaper option would come with SRAM Apex groupset, where the other option would be the Shimano 105 groupset.

My question for those in the know, is how much of a factor would it be to keep the Apex shifters after upgrading the rear derailer to something like SRAM Rival or higher?

I'm not clear how much the "double-tap" system changes from shifter to shifter. I have seen that in the Shimano world the difference from Tiagra to 105 to Ultegra is noticeable... I should caveat that by saying those were probably full groupsets though.

I'm leaning towards the cheaper Apex option with an upgraded crankset and rear derailer, but I don't want to regret being stuck with cheap shifters.


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## RiceKilla (Sep 16, 2009)

I wouldn't change a thing.

The only shifters that feel different from the rest are Red. I have been riding my Apex equipped bike for 3 months now, put over 1k miles this month and it really is a fantastic system. When I first got the bike I was going to upgrade to red but after getting some time on the bike I decided to stick with it and just replace things as they break.

I came from a 105-equipped bike and really loving Sram Apex.


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## PlatyPius (Feb 1, 2009)

RiceKilla said:


> I wouldn't change a thing.
> 
> The only shifters that feel different from the rest are Red. I have been riding my Apex equipped bike for 3 months now, put over 1k miles this month and it really is a fantastic system. When I first got the bike I was going to upgrade to red but after getting some time on the bike I decided to stick with it and just replace things as they break.
> 
> I came from a 105-equipped bike and really loving Sram Apex.


This.

Upgrading the RD on a SRAM bike would just be silly.


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## trail2street (Nov 22, 2011)

RiceKilla said:


> I came from a 105-equipped bike and really loving Sram Apex.


That is really good to know, I've been a huge fan of my 105 rear derailer, and thats been my main reason to consider the full 105 set (and liking STI shifting better than double-tap)



PlatyPius said:


> Upgrading the RD on a SRAM bike would just be silly.


Why is it silly? Is the Apex that good that upgrading to Rival or Red would make no difference? Or it due to the shifting mechanics of double-tap?

Thanks for the good info guys, I appreciate all the help.


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## PlatyPius (Feb 1, 2009)

trail2street said:


> Why is it silly? Is the Apex that good that upgrading to Rival or Red would make no difference? Or it due to the shifting mechanics of double-tap?
> 
> Thanks for the good info guys, I appreciate all the help.


Because the only difference between derailleurs is weight. You won't notice any functional difference between Apex, Rival, or Force. Red...there might be some difference. I've never noticed any.


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## vettracer (Jan 12, 2011)

PlatyPius said:


> This.
> 
> Upgrading the RD on a SRAM bike would just be silly.


Agree, other than changing from a mid cage to a short cage RD along with a tighter cassette if the bike comes with the 11-32 and you don't need those low gears.

In my experience the short cage with 12-25 shifts better than the mid cage 11-32 combo.


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## highroader (Jun 26, 2011)

most people will tell u to wear the components out before deciding to upgrade or not..u wont miss anything by keeping those initial components


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## Groffball (Feb 4, 2009)

I consider Apex an upgrade over 105


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## Marcos_E (Dec 16, 2007)

Groffball said:


> I consider Apex an upgrade over 105


I second that. The increased ranged of Apex over 105 is also a massive boon to most recreational cyclists. My CX rig runs on Rival shifters with an Apex RD, I've got it geared to near mountain-bike levels for the off season.


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## trail2street (Nov 22, 2011)

Thanks all, great info.


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## NextTime (Oct 13, 2007)

*SRAM Front Derailleurs*

Anyone care to comment about SRAM front derailleurs? I've read that the Force front derailleur (at least with the clamp-on version) has been problematic. I wonder if this has been fixed in 2012?

Thanks.


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## GirchyGirchy (Feb 12, 2004)

I haven't had any problems with my '09 Force FD since it was installed.


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## tdubb (Jul 11, 2010)

So what I'm getting is there isn't much difference between a Red and Force groupo? On my mountain bikes I think there is a difference between XO and X9.


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## nightfend (Mar 15, 2009)

The front shifters on Red are different than the other groups. That's the main difference between Force and Red. Even their brakes are now similar.

Rival/Apex still use the old brake design which is not as effective.

Also, the Rival aluminum crank is stiffer than the Apex aluminum crank.


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## MarvinK (Feb 12, 2002)

The other differences are actually improvements on non-Red (at least until new Red is released) groups. Even pros are using the steel cage front derailleurs from Force, and Force, Rival and Apex don't include the outdated and noisy missing-tooth cassette design anymore.

Looks like that will all change in a couple months--when the next gen of Red gets major updates to front shifting and a cassette that doesn't suck. It'll also be more than half a pound lighter (ie: 1.5lbs lighter than DA di2).. if you're a weight weenie.


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## fenderf4i (Sep 16, 2011)

vettracer said:


> Agree, other than changing from a mid cage to a short cage RD along with a tighter cassette if the bike comes with the 11-32 and you don't need those low gears.
> 
> In my experience the short cage with 12-25 shifts better than the mid cage 11-32 combo.


To change to the short cage Apex RD, does the entire RD have to be switched out, or can you just replace the cage?


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## drmayer (Mar 24, 2009)

i don't think you can buy the cage on it's own. Even if you could, the cages aren't usually removable on lower end derailleurs. Also, the parallelogram angle on the short is different from the medium. You'd be better off buying a new derailleur.


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## BirdieBogey (Aug 3, 2009)

I'll add my two cents on the SRAM Apex group as I have been riding it for about a year now. It's definitely geared for climbing since the gear jumps are two teeth or more and therefore not very nuanced for flat road shifting. The shifting itself is crisp if you have it tuned in right. I have had a couple of problems getting the front derailleur limits set just right. There is a bit of scraping when in 50 front- 32 back, or 34 front- 11 back. But if I set the front derailleur limits wider to eliminate the scrape it balks shifting from 34 to 50.
I have also had some instances of chain drop when in 50-32. I use this gear arrangements sometimes on climbing just to avoid too much front derailleur shifting. What I found is that the chain drops from the bottom of crank if you back pedal because of the angle of cross chaining. This mostly happens after I stop and unclip and spin the pedal backwards rather than under power. Nevertheless, this can be a real hazard when starting up in traffic.
Lastly, and this is weird, but as it warms up, the rear derailleur sometimes gets de-tuned and I have to turn the barrel adjuster a few clicks to get it back in tune. This only happened when I used a SRAM chain so I am going back to a KMC chain.


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## deftone86 (Jan 23, 2012)

I have had the SRAM Apex group for about half a year now and I think it is great also. The only upgrade I made at first was changing the my crank for a Force crank but I have a lower quality higher weight FSA crank on the bike from the factory which was 1lb heavier then the Force.


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## new2rd (Aug 8, 2010)

I also changed out the crank to a Force, but I also went to the PG 1070 cassette 12-26 w/ a 1071 chain. I'm interested in the difference between the mid cage Apex and the short cage (either Apex, Rival, or Force). Anyone try this. Someone earlier posted that they change out the RD and cassette.


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## CleavesF (Dec 31, 2007)

I'm a shimano fanboi but that's why I dislike my Rival/Apex gruppo I put on my cross bike. 

The shift throw is far too long for my liking, and the carbon levers, as awesome as they look are so light they don't feel very sturdy. 

Shifting with SRAM is just as good as Shimano, If tuned properly any group should function well but to be honest, dropping the extra cash on Rival to me wasn't really worth it (everything but crank is Rival) though I had which I gotten 105 or Ultegra like my other bikes.


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## vettracer (Jan 12, 2011)

new2rd said:


> I also changed out the crank to a Force, but I also went to the PG 1070 cassette 12-26 w/ a 1071 chain. I'm interested in the difference between the mid cage Apex and the short cage (either Apex, Rival, or Force). Anyone try this. Someone earlier posted that they change out the RD and cassette.


I have two bikse with Rival short cage derailleurs and 12-25 cassettes. I tried out a friends Apex bike with an 11-32 and long cage derailleur and found the rear shifting to be not as quick and positive as my rival setup. 

To be honest, the difference is more likely due to the larger jumps on the 11-32 than anything else. The longer cage shouldn't make much difference other than you don't need it and the extra chain length with the tighter cassette.


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## Rdxl9a (Sep 30, 2013)

*Wait... What?*



> "There is a bit of scraping when in 50 front- 32 back, or 34 front- 11 back. But if I set the front derailleur limits wider to eliminate the scrape it balks shifting from 34 to 50."


Why would you even do that ? It is clearly not intended to be used that way. Some serious cross threading going there, and it is no wonder that you are getting a scraping sound.
(Kind of reminds me of giving a one star review for a product, because the package arrived late?)

I have about 4000 miles on my APEX stuff, and I think it works really well. I had an FSA crank which I replaced with 105, and the front shifting is now superb. Overall very happy with it. Will probably replace with Force stuff as needed... Probably more for psychological reasons than need.

updated information posted: January 27, 2014
So I upgraded my rear derailleur from Apex to Force, not out of need, but just a treat to myself. I have to say that even though I didn't think it would make a huge difference, I was pleasantly surprised with how much crisper it shifts now. Really, you click the shifter and bam you are there. Very crisp and precise shifting, especially noticeable when shifting under load, re climbing. I am very happy with the upgrade and will probably sub come to the desire to upgrade the shifters to Force before too long. To sum it up, Apex fine, Force great! Ride on!


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## Pacodog (Sep 5, 2005)

I just picked a used 2013 Tricross Comp which has Apex drivetrain along with an FSA Gossamer crank. I had been thinking about some upgrades but after reading this I guess I'll leave good enough alone.


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## BigPoser (Jan 11, 2013)

I have Apex on my current ride, and upgraded the chain, cassette, and RD to Force and it works amazing. You shouldn't have any issues whatsoever.


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## Luis Leon (Aug 6, 2011)

I have 2012 Giant Defy Comp 2 full Apex. Over 3k miles on the the bicycle and the components are still shifting crisply. When things start to wear out that's when I replace them.


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## Flieger67 (Oct 26, 2013)

My 2012 Madone came with Apex and I've not had one problem with it. I liked SRAM shifting so much that I specified Force 22 for my new bike. Even my wife moved from Shimano to SRAM on her bike and likes the shifting and the tactile feel of the SRAM shifters better.


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## downtube (Mar 17, 2011)

My wife has both apex and red, her only comment is the brakes are not as good on the apex bike. I must say however she doesn't have red brakes she has carbon fiber TRP 950. Oh she did say the cassette on the red bike makes a lot of noise. I must agree on that one.


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## uclamatt2007 (Aug 21, 2009)

I had Apex on my last bike and Rival on my current. Honestly, there is little difference between them.

One upgrade that is a must in my opinion is to add the Yaw derailleur to any SRAM 10 spd set up. The Force 22 Yaw derailleur works fine with the 10 spd shifters and is a giant upgrade. Almost instant shifting and almost no chain rub. Best $50 I've ever spent on a bike.


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