# Shimano Dura Ace 7900 review from Competitive Cyclist



## nismosr (Jun 27, 2007)

Video link below

http://www.competitivecyclist.com/z...for-2009+Dura-Ace+7900&utm_term=Dura-Ace-7900


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## gizzard (Oct 5, 2005)

I wonder what he's getting from Shimano for this little sales pitch? Pretty comprehensive though.


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## thedips (Mar 26, 2007)

gizzard said:


> I wonder what he's getting from Shimano for this little sales pitch? Pretty comprehensive though.


i saw your post then saw the video and was like wow... seemed almost scripted? i mean i get that you love it.. but wow... how much more you gotta sell it.. and all this of course is coming from COMPETITIVE CYCLIST... the premiere website to get your 7900.....

:thumbsup:

and not to take away from shimano dura ace.. i too am excited. i do see where they try to improve... and what i love most are the numbers.. always give me the numbers.. 20% FASTER! 50% MORE POWER! 33% MORE STOPPAGE! 26% MORE COOL!  

all that review and nothing in the price tho huh? not even a little guesstimate?


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## akatsuki (Aug 12, 2005)

I just liked seeing the parts as they were moved around. I think the new finish looks nice... But then again objective reviews of gruppos are never really done... 

I'd love to see a review of the gruppos on a rider generating 350+ watts, shifting under heavy load, cross-chaining, and basically trying to tear apart each group. Measure shifting times from actuation, take a noise meter along, slow-motion shots of the shifts to see how "rough" they are, putting them on a machine that does nothing but generate 500W of force and see how the chain wears, another machine that just shifts the shifters a million times to failure, measure power at the crank and power at the wheel to examine drive-train efficiency (should be good, but who knows?), etc.

But that would end all the fun debates and where would be the fun in that?


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## Einstruzende (Jun 1, 2004)

If you click on the kit configurator, an 8pc set will set you back $2600. Way outside of what I'd pay. My Record Groups were $1549 when I bought them, and my current DuraAce group was $1049. NO WAY i'm paying a thousand more than the previous high end.


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## PeanutButterBreath (Dec 4, 2005)

akatsuki said:


> I'd love to see a review of the gruppos on a rider generating 350+ watts, shifting under heavy load, cross-chaining, and basically trying to tear apart each group. Measure shifting times from actuation, take a noise meter along, slow-motion shots of the shifts to see how "rough" they are, putting them on a machine that does nothing but generate 500W of force and see how the chain wears, another machine that just shifts the shifters a million times to failure, measure power at the crank and power at the wheel to examine drive-train efficiency (should be good, but who knows?), etc.
> 
> But that would end all the fun debates and where would be the fun in that?


Most of those tests would not really be relevant to consumers unless they plan to abuse their bikes in the same way.

I can just imagine hearing over and over again how X brand's Y group was the weakest/strongest/etc. based on these rigorous, objective tests.


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## akatsuki (Aug 12, 2005)

PeanutButterBreath said:


> Most of those tests would not really be relevant to consumers unless they plan to abuse their bikes in the same way.
> 
> I can just imagine hearing over and over again how X brand's Y group was the weakest/strongest/etc. based on these rigorous, objective tests.


Maybe, but then again, we would all be riding 105 or something then.... And it is better hearing about how Campy is rebuildable but Shimano has a better crank and brakes etc...


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## thedips (Mar 26, 2007)

akatsuki said:


> Maybe, but then again, we would all be riding 105 or something then.... And it is better hearing about how Campy is rebuildable but Shimano has a better crank and brakes etc...



I THINK its very important to put these groupos to torture tests... i mean they do it with cars right? i have a suv.. and i dont think i ever let it even drive over a patch of grass... let alone climb over some boulders and dig thru mudd as tested...

but i still rather know it was very capable of such... :idea: :cryin:


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## Chainstay (Mar 13, 2004)

The same calculator for the 7800 comes out at $1788. By that standard you pay an $812 premium (45%) and you save about .42 lbs on bike weight and get a barely perceptible improvement in fit and performance

You don't really need it anyway so why not, if you can afford it, indulge.


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## lorcatronik (Nov 2, 2005)

I'm guessing that with a price increase like that for Dura-Ace, your going to see more high end bikes come with Ultegra when the 6700 series comes out next year. With the general overall increases across the board (my LBS told me 10 to 20% increase across the board), that Cervelo R3 I was coveting would be $7000 instead of $5000 with the new Dura-Ace. Hate to see what the Cervelo R3 SL would go for. At some point, is a 25% improvement on excellent shifting enough to justify a $1000 increase?


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## Dajianshan (Jul 15, 2007)

> Most of those tests would not really be relevant to consumers unless they plan to abuse their bikes in the same way.


But seeing as Dura Ace is Shimano's flagship gruppo, and ridded by professional cyclists who DO abuse their bikes for a living... it should be destroyed in testing. 

It may not be as important to the average consumer... but the average consumer should not be buying Dura Ace for a trip with the kids on the bike path.


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## MarvinK (Feb 12, 2002)

I'd like to see a side-by-side comparison of Dura Ace and Red (09DA's inspiration). Red is available now, lighter and not more expensive. I suspect DA is lighter shifting, if you prefer that (Red-label Record is selling fast enough to prove it isn't preferred by everyone) and Red is still more ergonomic. I don't see anything in 09DA that makes it worth passing up Red for. I guess the crank might be stiffer... but, really, those parts are either given to you by a sponsor or you're not strong enough to notice any difference on crank stiffness.


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## b24fsb (Dec 21, 2006)

is anyone else having problems opening competitive cyclist web page?


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## MarvinK (Feb 12, 2002)

Hasn't worked for me at all today...


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## SM-Rider (May 2, 2007)

I can't get to competitive's site either. My guess is that they overloaded their servers with the video content. I got an email from them this morning about the review. I'm sure many others got the same and flooded their server with requests.


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## DIRT BOY (Aug 22, 2002)

First thing rember guys is that their CURRENT price will not be correct. CC always posts these pre-pricing for groups higher. This way when they are sure and ready to sell, they will not come in too low.

There is a tread about this over at weight weenies. 

One person mentioned they have SEEN the wholesale pricing already and it's more than 7800, but NOT that much higher like CC is posting now.

Also proces will come down after January as 7800 did and eBay sites.

Look here for more correct pricing. yes, it's in Euros but if you convert it, you will get a more reasonable estimate.


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## akatsuki (Aug 12, 2005)

MarvinK said:


> I'd like to see a side-by-side comparison of Dura Ace and Red (09DA's inspiration). Red is available now, lighter and not more expensive. I suspect DA is lighter shifting, if you prefer that (Red-label Record is selling fast enough to prove it isn't preferred by everyone) and Red is still more ergonomic. I don't see anything in 09DA that makes it worth passing up Red for. I guess the crank might be stiffer... but, really, those parts are either given to you by a sponsor or you're not strong enough to notice any difference on crank stiffness.


I gotta agree that with SRAM Red and Rival being so aggressively priced, Shimano may see more of the OEM market evaporate unless they manage to drive down their pricing a bit. (SRAM Force is the odd one out right now). Unless Shimano is ceding the mid-range market (105 and Ultegra) to Rival entirely...


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## android (Nov 20, 2007)

Dajianshan said:


> But seeing as Dura Ace is Shimano's flagship gruppo, and ridded by professional cyclists who DO abuse their bikes for a living... it should be destroyed in testing.
> 
> It may not be as important to the average consumer... but the average consumer should not be buying Dura Ace for a trip with the kids on the bike path.


Truth be told, I think overweight American consumers can heap more abuse on bicycles and groups than pro racers. First, pro racers know what they are doing, so they don't do stupid stuff like shift at the wrong times or jam things when they're obviously not working. And secondly, they're a lot lighter. There's lots of 250 lb amateurs riding DA and on a good downhill, they're going to stress the brakes a lot more than some lightweight pro ever will.

I don't think pros really "abuse" stuff, they do ride hard and push the limits of the intended use of the components. Morons with money do a lot better job with abuse and unintended use.


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## b24fsb (Dec 21, 2006)

ill agree with you, the average consumer is very hard on there gear


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## PeanutButterBreath (Dec 4, 2005)

akatsuki said:


> Maybe, but then again, we would all be riding 105 or something then....


Where do you get that? Those of us who ride higher than 105 don't do it because Ultegra and Dura Ace allow us to crosschain with impunity and shift under extreme load.



akatsuki said:


> And it is better hearing about how Campy is rebuildable but Shimano has a better crank and brakes etc...


Note how neither of those helpful points of comparison have anything to do with extreme use testing.


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## PeanutButterBreath (Dec 4, 2005)

Dajianshan said:


> But seeing as Dura Ace is Shimano's flagship gruppo, and ridded by professional cyclists who DO abuse their bikes for a living... it should be destroyed in testing.


Their "abuse" is based on high usage, which is different than incompetence. I care whether a component can be expected to last a certain number of years based on appropraite use. I don't give a rat's backside if 7900 doesn't stand up to frequent shifts under high load and constant cross-chaining.


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## P.D.E. (Oct 15, 2006)

b24fsb said:


> ill agree with you, the average consumer is very hard on there gear


+1. Plus, are the pros really riding their gear to the limit of it's durability? I would guess they get their chains/cassettes replaced a lot more often than the average consumer.

I would be very interested to see some kind of durability testing numbers, comparing 7900 to old 7800, Campy and SRAM. That way we can get a better idea of its true cost, which is the puchase price + it's expected yearly cost for worn out parts, etc.


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## PeanutButterBreath (Dec 4, 2005)

P.D.E. said:


> That way we can get a better idea of its true cost, which is the puchase price + it's expected yearly cost for worn out parts, etc.


How many shifts, crank revolutions etc. are there in a year?


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## nwfanatic (Feb 5, 2005)

Speaking as a 250lb amateur who likea to ride hard I can only agree with this sentiment. I create forces on bikes with relative frequency that 150lb pros rarely do. Besides the obvious issue of being death to wheels, I've had some bizzare failures including bending a DA crank arm when sprinting up a short incline, bending a big chainring tooth when (stupidly) cross-chaining with loads of torque.... stuff you shouldn't be able to break on bikes I have broken - even when not doing something "dumb". 

For obvious reasons I have come to favor equipment that is robust and stiff. So all of these "stiffness" improvements in DA09 - especially in the cranks - seem very interesting to me. I might well notice it and one would hope it reflects additional robustness. 

The thing I find tough to swallow is the "all or nuthin'" swap out of most of this stuff. I have "standardized" on the DA/Ultegra stuff for my wife's bike and my bikes. Makes for easy stocking of replacment parts, swapping out parts in case of unexpected failures, etc. So for me the cost of upgradding is bigger than a single groupo - it's also the loss of a bunch of wrenching/parts convenience.


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## P.D.E. (Oct 15, 2006)

PeanutButterBreath said:


> How many shifts, crank revolutions etc. are there in a year?


Well for me those are big numbers considering I average 10-12k miles/year. But some objective way of quantifying durability would be helpful. Put the stuff on a machine to simulate "average" riding patterns, and see how many miles/hours/shifts/etc the components last. If I had some test results that showed brand/group x lasts longer and has lower total usage cost than brand/group y that would be a factor in my buying decisions.


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## Chainstay (Mar 13, 2004)

*He's paid of course but by Competitive Cyclist*

He works for the retailer. If they sell more they make more profit. By hyping the latest gear they sell more. A big plus is that the video is generating great exposure for their business. He is doing the job that Competitive Cyclists pays him to do and he obviously believes in the product, afterall it's no great stretch to find a loyal Dura Ace fan at a big bike retailer. 

I highly doubt that he is directly compensated by Shimano. That's completely unnecessary.

Shimano may have picked up the video production costs and web hosting costs out of their promotional allowance however. This is a common practice in the industry I work in and suspect that bike retailing would be similar.


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## b24fsb (Dec 21, 2006)

so he never shifts the new shifter, is 7900 like sram now or does the brake lever twist like normal shimano stuff does. i ask this because it looks like the carbon brake lever has a pin at the top stopping it from twisting.


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## nwfanatic (Feb 5, 2005)

Umm, it's a bit off topic but the irony is too thick not to post. Apparently I did not properly suplicate to the cycling gods when posting earlier about breaking DA when and where you shouldn't be able to break it. On *today's* ride home, on a very steep (20+ %) but very short little incline I did this standing and straining/pulling on the bars to get up the mini-cliff:


I thought I might have had the pinch bolts too tight (despite use of torque wrench) but the spindle appeared to split laterally from the crank side which I don't think is what one would expect if the non-drive-side bolts were too tight... still, maybe that's it. It's broken in half only because it came apart from me struggling to yank it out of the BB. The black ring is the race... or bearing cover... on the drive-side cup that kinda separated as I had to basically rip the crank out of the BB to get the silly thing off the bike.

Down one SRM DA crank and one DA BB....

FWIW it was about 3 years old. Probably around 25K miles.... tho it's hard to say as I added a 2nd bike during the 3 years and have spent time on both bikes/cranksets.

Sigh... such is my life.


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## bdaghisallo1 (Sep 25, 2007)

I would think that would be a warranty replacement from Shimano.

Fear not though. Your SRM is not lost. You can send it in to SRM in Co Springs and they can bolt on a new set of machined DA cranks. It may cost you $300-$400, but that's a lot cheaper than a whole new SRM powermeter.


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## yater (Nov 30, 2006)

PeanutButterBreath said:


> Their "abuse" is based on high usage, which is different than incompetence. I care whether a component can be expected to last a certain number of years based on appropraite use. I don't give a rat's backside if 7900 doesn't stand up to frequent shifts under high load and constant cross-chaining.


+1...I'm 130lbs and know how to ride my bike. I don't need to know how long some 300lb fred can cross-chain his group. "Real world" testing for dura-ace should be done by guys who know what they're doing...not by fat slobs looking for a new hobby.

That said, I'll be looking for a new group this fall. If DA is priced well above sram red, I'll pick sram. I'm hoping chainreaction will be offering their normal shimano discounts.


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## Dr_John (Oct 11, 2005)

> I would think that would be a warranty replacement from Shimano.


Me too. I suspect Shimano might want to look at that failure.


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## SicBith (Jan 21, 2008)

Chainstay said:


> He works for the retailer. If they sell more they make more profit. By hyping the latest gear they sell more. A big plus is that the video is generating great exposure for their business. He is doing the job that Competitive Cyclists pays him to do and he obviously believes in the product, afterall it's no great stretch to find a loyal Dura Ace fan at a big bike retailer.
> 
> I highly doubt that he is directly compensated by Shimano. That's completely unnecessary.
> 
> Shimano may have picked up the video production costs and web hosting costs out of their promotional allowance however. This is a common practice in the industry I work in and suspect that bike retailing would be similar.


It's called Co-op. Buy so much we give you so much in promo $ or product to increase discount at a reduced cost to the manufacturer. Everyone does it.


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## SicBith (Jan 21, 2008)

yater said:


> +1...I'm 130lbs and know how to ride my bike. I don't need to know how long some 300lb fred can cross-chain his group. "Real world" testing for dura-ace should be done by guys who know what they're doing...not by fat slobs looking for a new hobby.
> 
> That said, I'll be looking for a new group this fall. If DA is priced well above sram red, I'll pick sram. I'm hoping chainreaction will be offering their normal shimano discounts.



I'll say it cause everyone else is thinking it. You're a tool.


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## LyncStar (May 1, 2005)

SicBith said:


> I'll say it cause everyone else is thinking it. You're a tool.


+1, in a big way.


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## Dr_John (Oct 11, 2005)

Why are the 7900 brakes not compatible with 7800 STI's? They look functionally the same as the 7800 brakes, have a cable release, etc.


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## rensho (Aug 5, 2003)

The 7900 pricing is crazy sick. What are they thinking?


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## MerlinAma (Oct 11, 2005)

rensho said:


> The 7900 pricing is crazy sick. What are they thinking?


That your American $$ is worth less now and will be worth even less tomorrow, and the day after, and the day after that............................


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## nwfanatic (Feb 5, 2005)

I wanted to go ahead and close the loop on this even tho it's a bit off topic.

SRM service did fix the crank - got it back today good as new. They did the repair as a warranty issue (!) which they did *not* have to do as the crank is old enough to be out of warantee.

I feel compelled to add that this and my other experiences with SRM service have been truly outstanding - besides being great people to work with, they do more then is required far more quickly than I would expect. The unit costs a mint, but I have tremendous loyalty to them and their product - and recommend it to anyone - at least in part because of my experiences with Leslie and the servcie team in colorado springs.


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## MarvinK (Feb 12, 2002)

I think 2009 Dura Ace is a great compliment of SRAM Red. I mean, if imitation is the best form of compliment--Shimano loves SRAM. 2008 SRAM Red is way cheaper, lighter and I even think it's nicer looking.... the only thing I really think Shimano might have on them in the no-trim (if it works). In any case, I'd be buying 2008 Red over 2009 Dura Ace... especially at the current Competitive Cyclist prices.


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## Kestreljr (Jan 10, 2007)

LyncStar said:


> +1, in a big way.



I disagree... While "yater" is a little lighter then me, I completely agree with his point. DA is designed as a serious racing component group set. It's only purpose is to get serious racers across the line faster then other components do, and if you can blend in durability without adversely effecting that goal, then great. 

To know what a 300lb club rider does on the stuff is irrelevant to the designers and to me. The same argument would be said of an Indy Car. To know mpg, seating capacity, etc.. of an Indy car is absurd. If anyone wants to buy an Indy Car it should be to race it. If you don't plan to race, then go ahead and drive it, but realize that it is not designed for you. 

I think too many club riders think DA, Record, Red is the biking version of their Lexus. They are so far removed in their own little world that they forget people actually race on this stuff, a lot. 

Ride on, :thumbsup:


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## smokey422 (Feb 22, 2004)

If I were in the market for a high end gruppo (which I'm not) my first question would be are the shifters rebuildable (unlike previous Shimano)? I'd hate to have to pop for another set of $700 shifters if they screw up after the warranty is up. Campy still seems to have an advantage here and that would be more important to me than a few grams of weight.


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## rensho (Aug 5, 2003)

Funny that the US $$$ falling only affects the 2009 DA pricing. SRAM, lower Shimano and Campy aren't affected. Good logic though.

Shimano must think really highly of themselves. This was well established with the ~$1400 price tag on the DA carbon crank...


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## MerlinAma (Oct 11, 2005)

rensho said:


> Funny that the US $$$ falling only affects the 2009 DA pricing. SRAM, lower Shimano and Campy aren't affected. Good logic though.
> 
> Shimano must think really highly of themselves. This was well established with the ~$1400 price tag on the DA carbon crank...


The DA carbon crank price is CRAZY!


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## MarvinK (Feb 12, 2002)

MerlinAma said:


> The DA carbon crank price is CRAZY!


+1 - It sure was.. until they killed it. I think Shimano was feeling left out on the super premium pricing, and is making up for it. Heck, by the carbon crank standards---2009 Dura Ace is a bargain. You can almost get the whole group for the price of that crank! 


For anyone who thinks they aren't keeping club riders in mind when they design Dura Ace, Red and Record--I'd sure like to hear why they've all had triples and/or compacts (and large rear cogs) for quite some time. Sure they're trying to make the best performing parts--but they know who is actually BUYING them, too.


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## rensho (Aug 5, 2003)

And this just in not too long ago.

Campy has LOWERED its 2009 pricing on Record (well, only 2% lower).
Chorus Pricing stays the same.
New SuperRecord is ~17% higher than Record.

Keep in mind that the new Record and SR will have ceramic bearings STOCK in the BB and der pullies. Wow.

My days of running DA may have just ended. My next bike build may be my first real foray into Campy land.


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## jderreks (Sep 1, 2006)

DA 7900 isn't compatible due to different cable pull ratios with the derailleurs. Thus the need to upgrade much more than just shifters.


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## MarvinK (Feb 12, 2002)

rensho said:


> Campy has LOWERED its 2009 pricing on Record (well, only 2% lower).
> 
> Keep in mind that the new Record and SR will have ceramic bearings STOCK in the BB and der pullies. Wow.


Another thing to consider is SRAM Red is lighter and cheaper than Record, and already includes ceramic bearings this year. You can keep your Shimano wheels and don't have to wait 6 months for reasonable availability. It doesn't have 11-speed, but it already has a lot of features coming in 2009 for others...


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## rensho (Aug 5, 2003)

MarvinK said:


> Another thing to consider is SRAM Red is lighter and cheaper than Record, and already includes ceramic bearings this year. You can keep your Shimano wheels and don't have to wait 6 months for reasonable availability. It doesn't have 11-speed, but it already has a lot of features coming in 2009 for others...


Good point. I see nothing wrong with the SRAM Red, and only good things about it. Amazing first effort by SRAM.


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## Kestreljr (Jan 10, 2007)

MarvinK said:


> For anyone who thinks they aren't keeping club riders in mind when they design Dura Ace, Red and Record--I'd sure like to hear why they've all had triples and/or compacts (and large rear cogs) for quite some time. Sure they're trying to make the best performing parts--but they know who is actually BUYING them, too.


MarvinK = FAIL  



cyclingnews.com said:


> 14:40 CEST 72 km/105 km to go
> Welcome to the Cyclingnews coverage of the etapa reina of this Vuelta, the 177 km stage through the seemingly perpetually rainy mountains of Asturias with its finish atop the fearsome Angliru climb. Even more fearsome than in previous years, perhaps, since some recent surveying work has revealed that it is actually fractionally longer and steeper than was previously supposed, with the maximum gradient now revealed as 23.6%. With two first and one second category climbs before the Angliru, *it is not wholly surprising that some riders and teams have opted for triple chainrings today (and the others are using 38x29 or so bottom gears)*. Another tradition of this stage is that low cloud and rough terrain make communications with the race fairly shaky, but we'll be doing our best.


T-mobile San Fran Grand Prix, Sept 2003


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## darwinosx (Oct 12, 2010)

thedips said:


> i saw your post then saw the video and was like wow... seemed almost scripted?


I'm sure it was scripted and rehearsed as it should be for a professional presentation.


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## pcs2 (Sep 4, 2006)

darwinosx said:


> I'm sure it was scripted and rehearsed as it should be for a professional presentation.


Thanks!

That's been bothering me for the last 3 years.


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## darwinosx (Oct 12, 2010)

Yeah...I was looking for Shimano pedal reviews and replied to this thread then I noticed it was a 2008 thread...


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## pcs2 (Sep 4, 2006)

It's all good :thumbsup:

At least no one can hassle you about not using the search.


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## Ventruck (Mar 9, 2009)

nvm, made this post when it appeared no one addressed you. Silly server.

But yeah. 3 years.


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## MarvinK (Feb 12, 2002)

pcs2 said:


> Thanks!
> 
> That's been bothering me for the last 3 years.


Hey, cut him some slack... he spent those 3 years rehearsing his response to the thread. 

It was clear and concise--and well worth the extra time.


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