# Tire blowing off Stans Alpha 340 rim



## nerd (Apr 5, 2006)

I have had a tire blow off my Stans Alpha 340 rim twice in the past few months. Both times the tires, GP400s, were installed as new. The first tire blew after ~1700 miles. The second tire blew after ~700 miles. Neither blowout happened when the tire was being ridden, both happened when the bike was sitting in the stand.

Has anyone had this problem? I am extremely careful when installing tires and have never had a tire blow off a rim before.


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## Yamabushi (Sep 30, 2008)

nerd said:


> I have had a tire blow off my Stans Alpha 340 rim twice in the past few months. Both times the tires, GP400s, were installed as new. The first tire blew after ~1700 miles. The second tire blew after ~700 miles. Neither blowout happened when the tire was being ridden, both happened when the bike was sitting in the stand.
> 
> Has anyone had this problem? I am extremely careful when installing tires and have never had a tire blow off a rim before.


Are you trying to run Conti GP4000's tubeless or is this a conventional clincher setup with tubes? Conti GP4000's are not designed to be a tubeless tire. If you are trying to run tubeless, you need a tubeless specific tire.


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## Enoch562 (May 13, 2010)

several years ago I had some specialized comps that blew off a set of spinergy rims with anything over 110 psi in my tube. Seems they were a little loose fitting or had a break in the kevlar bead. I sent them back. Curious to hear if you trying to run the Conti's tubeless also


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## bikerjulio (Jan 19, 2010)

You don't say what pressure you were running either.

You should be treating the tire as though it was a 25mm, with correspondingly lower pressure than a 23mm.

And i hope you had tubes.


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## nerd (Apr 5, 2006)

Sorry for not being more explicit in my first post. This is a tubed setup, not tubeless. When the first blowout occurred, I was using lighter (thinner) Continental race light tubes. Thinking the lightweight tube may have migrated under the bead somehow, I went to the heavier (thicker) Continental tubes but had the same problem.

I am running these at around 105 PSI.


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## stevesbike (Jun 3, 2002)

how hard is the tire to install? I've had a few tires give me problems even after being extremely careful about not getting a tube pinched. It was always a tire that seemed looser than others. Wonder if some manufacturing runs have small variances in tire diameter.


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## bikerjulio (Jan 19, 2010)

I have PR3's and supersonic tubes on my Stans. I'm a clyde and still run them at 95# with no problems. When installing I always check around the tire on each side looking at the rib and making sure it looks even around the rim. sometimes I whack the wheel on the ground at an angle if the tire bead looks low in a particular spot to "encourage" it to move into place.

so far in 2 years, no problems. I'd try reducing pressure to 95#.


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## Kerry Irons (Feb 25, 2002)

*Timing*



nerd said:


> I have had a tire blow off my Stans Alpha 340 rim twice in the past few months.


If the tires blew off shortly after you installed them, then it was most likely an installation error. Sometimes it takes a couple of days or longer and enough miles for that slightly pinched inner tube to work its way under the tire bead. This will not happen with a properly installed tire unless the tire is defective.

You need to put a bit of air in the tube for the install so that it is round and less easily caught under the tire bead. You also need to work the tire all the way around the rim to be sure that the tube is fully inside the tire before starting to inflate. You might put a couple of pump strokes into the tube and then work around the tire again.


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## nerd (Apr 5, 2006)

While fully accepting that I could be doing something wrong during installation, I cannot see what it is. I have never had a tire blow off the rim in 100K+ miles of riding.

My installation procedure is as follows:

I start by putting one side of the tire bead on the rim then airing the tube with just enough for it to hold its round shape (cross section). I insert the valve stem and with the wheel laying on its side, I carefully work the tube into the tire cavity around the circumference. At the same time, I am tucking the tube into the rim socket being sure that the tube is not getting twisted or bunched. The goal is to end up with the tube "mounted" in the rim and the remaining bead the only thing outside the rim socket. Then, starting at the valve stem, I work the remaining bead of the tire onto the rim. I then work my way around the wheel looking for anywhere the tube is trapped under the tire bead. When airing up the tire, I check how the bead is seating more than once.

I would agree that perhaps the tire was bad but to have it happen twice with two different tires, both new at the time of installation, makes a defective tire unlikely. 

Another thing that is probably worth mentioning is that since the tires both blew when the bike was stationary, the tire didn't fully come off the rim. Both times the bead came off the rim near the same spot, at around 2 o-clock from the valve stem at the noon position. I can see nothing obviously wrong with the rim in that area.


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## TomH (Oct 6, 2008)

Ive never seen a road rim pinch a tube and not blow immediately.. Theres so much pressure that it seems unlikely that the tube is going to move anywhere after installed. 

The alpha uses a super low non standard bead hook. It grabs the tire less, and its less secure. 

Ive had my small share of stans rims experience, and ive seen TONS of other peoples experiences with them. I dont believe in their BST concept, I think it makes for poor rims. It hardly works for MTB, quadruple the pressure and im amazed it works at all for road. 

You bought a questionably designed rim, im sorry you got questionable results... but it says something.


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## bikerjulio (Jan 19, 2010)

> Then, starting at the valve stem, I work the remaining bead of the tire onto the rim.


Not that this is causing the problem, but you are doing it wrong.

The bead close to the valve should be the last section.

My Stan's have been OK in the sense of the tire staying on, but rims hard to build up, poor quality joints, unsmooth braking, regular retensioning, all means they are not something I would recommend to a friend.


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## rruff (Feb 28, 2006)

TomH said:


> Ive never seen a road rim pinch a tube and not blow immediately.. Theres so much pressure that it seems unlikely that the tube is going to move anywhere after installed.


I agree for a thick butyl tube.



> Ive had my small share of stans rims experience, and ive seen TONS of other peoples experiences with them.


Are you referring to tires blowing off, or something else? In general Stan's rims get rave reviews from the MTB crowd. 

I thought I was the only one. I've also had two tires blow off Stan's 340 rims... front and rear... GP4000 and Corsa CX. Latex tubes. Hundreds of miles after installation... riding, but not cornering or braking. Never before had a tire blow off in 150-200k miles of road riding. 

The GP4000 had one bead that was sort of loose... the Corsa CX was sort of loose on both sides. I thought maybe the latex tubes were also contributing. Since the tire requires pretty high pressure before it pops onto the shelf and seats, there is a chance for the tubes to sneak under there. Latex would be much more prone to this. I figured I'd be safe with butyl tubes, and also making sure that the tire is a tight fit... but now I'm not sure. 

I regularly exceed 50 mph, and based on what happened before at modest speeds (one bead completely off and tube immediately wraps around the axle and gets caught)... there'd be no way to save it.


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## TomH (Oct 6, 2008)

The flow is a good rim... but it uses the raised hooks. The new EX rims are already blowing off tires with the super low hooks. 

If you get a tire thats a good fit on the rim, they tend to not have problems. There seems to be a lot of incompatible tires though. That incompatibility doesnt really exist on most other rims.


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## rruff (Feb 28, 2006)

I also know that a lot of people report tires blowing off other rims. I always figured it was a bad install. It also seems like we'd be hearing more about the 340s if it was a common issue. 

Seems pretty random. In the OPs case, it happened in the garage... many days and miles after installation with butyl tubes. In my case I was riding, but doing nothing to heat the rims or create side loads. What would cause a bead to suddenly just come loose... weeks and hundreds of miles after it was installed?


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## tednugent (Apr 26, 2010)

TomH said:


> The flow is a good rim... but it uses the raised hooks. The new EX rims are already blowing off tires with the super low hooks.
> 
> If you get a tire thats a good fit on the rim, they tend to not have problems. There seems to be a lot of incompatible tires though. That incompatibility doesnt really exist on most other rims.


No issues tires blowing off the rim on my Arch EX 29er..
Specialized The Captain Control
Specialized Renegade Control
tubeless with Stan's Sealant....

they were a PITA to get on though.


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## docklobster (Aug 28, 2012)

I've been using Stan's on the mtb, first the flows then the arch ex 29. Never had an issue. Just got some alpha 340's for the road. I guess I'll see how they do. Hope to never have an issue while moving.


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## nerd (Apr 5, 2006)

rruff said:


> Seems pretty random. In the OPs case, it happened in the garage... many days and miles after installation with butyl tubes. In my case I was riding, but doing nothing to heat the rims or create side loads. What would cause a bead to suddenly just come loose... weeks and hundreds of miles after it was installed?


I think this is important. Blowouts usually happen fairly quickly if the tire was installed wrong and not after hundreds of miles. The fact that it's happening so late is an indicator of what? Poor rim design? Manufacturing defect in the rim? Mismatching tire/rim tolerances (i.e. tire near the outside bound, rim near the inside)?

Given that my experience was with GP4000s, what tires are people using successfully with these rims? It seems at least one poster uses Pro3s with success. Others?


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## Yamabushi (Sep 30, 2008)

nerd said:


> Given that my experience was with GP4000s, what tires are people using successfully with these rims? It seems at least one poster uses Pro3s with success. Others?


Those rims are specifically designed for tubeless, why not run tubeless? It's likely you'll get a more positive tire to rim mating, and would probably be the safest.


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## shoegazer (Nov 2, 2007)

Yamabushi said:


> Those rims are specifically designed for tubeless, why not run tubeless? It's likely you'll get a more positive tire to rim mating, and would probably be the safest.


That wasn't my experience but I quit riding them tubeless it because of limited tire choices - I just didn't find anything I particularly liked riding in tubeless tires. I rode them tubed and felt no appreciable difference on the same roads, pressure, et al. The constant retensioning was the final straw & they're now my tubular stretching rims.


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## tednugent (Apr 26, 2010)

Yamabushi said:


> Those rims are specifically designed for tubeless, why not run tubeless? It's likely you'll get a more positive tire to rim mating, and would probably be the safest.


NOt too much choices in tubeless tires for the road market, unlike the MTB world.

tubed or not, the bst hook allows for greater volume. For a tubeless example, the Hutchinson Intensive tubeless when mounted on the Alpha 340 rim, actually reaches its 25mm width. On other rims, it only gets to 23mm


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## Yamabushi (Sep 30, 2008)

shoegazer said:


> That wasn't my experience but I quit riding them tubeless it because of limited tire choices - I just didn't find anything I particularly liked riding in tubeless tires. I rode them tubed and felt no appreciable difference on the same roads, pressure, et al. The constant retensioning was the final straw & they're now my tubular stretching rims.





tednugent said:


> NOt too much choices in tubeless tires for the road market, unlike the MTB world.
> 
> tubed or not, the bst hook allows for greater volume. For a tubeless example, the Hutchinson Intensive tubeless when mounted on the Alpha 340 rim, actually reaches its 25mm width. On other rims, it only gets to 23mm


Of course YMMV, but I've been extremely happy with the Maxxis Padrone! :thumbsup:


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## rruff (Feb 28, 2006)

nerd said:


> It seems at least one poster uses Pro3s with success. Others?


I've used GP4000, Pro3, Pro2, Maxxis Radialle, Supersonic, Attack, Veloflex Corsa... all with success. And one GP4000, and one Corsa CX without success.

Looks like me and you are the only ones here who have had a tire come off...


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## rruff (Feb 28, 2006)

Bump... nobody else has had this problem?


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## Enoch562 (May 13, 2010)

rruff said:


> Bump... nobody else has had this problem?


not yet, pro race 3's on mine. but I will NOT be running 4000 on mine.


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## GR68 (Feb 4, 2008)

I have also GP4000 (and Bontrgaer R4 Aeros) blow off Stans Rims.

It happened at least three times before I decided that it probbaly was too risky to ride the wheels. After the first time I ensured that the tube was mounted completly inside the tyre before full inflation. I have never had this problem on any other rim.

None of the blow outs happened on the first rides. One actually happen on the Etape du Tour - in the wind and rain riding on the flat at about 15km/h. I heard the tube come out and start to rub on the fork so was slowing when it went BANG. So it wasn't a temp / expansion / braking issue.

No one has posted here in this Thread to say it has happened with any other rims. Some are saying it seems to be only a few and not a problem, but to me it appears it is a problem.

I posted my expirence on a thread for the Bontrage R4 Aero tires and was told (as many have been told here) that I must be mounting the tubes / tires wrong.

I have been offered "You really need to change your installation technique"
http://forums.roadbikereview.com/wheels-tires/stans-alpha-340-tyre-problems-278916.html

And here:
http://forums.roadbikereview.com/wh...ng-bontrager-r4-tires-278068.html#post3878971


I have now used my GP4000 and Bontrager R4 tires on DT, Mavic, Mach1 and even cheap chinese carbon clincher rims with no problems


While it is all well and good that many are offering advice on correct procedure for mounitng tubes it appears that there seems to be a problem with the Stans Alpha rims.


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## giosblue (Aug 2, 2009)

I had problem with mine when I first got them. I didn't have the proper rim tape, the tape I was using moved inside rim and prevented the tyre from seating properly.
Since using the Stans tape they have been fine. Now I'm a bit worried though.
I don't have my tyres pumped up rock hard, 90psi rear and 80 psi front not sure if this helps?

A tyres blowing off the rims is not something I need when I on my cycling trip in Mallorca and these are the wheels I would normally use.


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## rruff (Feb 28, 2006)

Thanks for the info. We are just trying to figure out what is going on. On various forums there are reports of tires blowing off all sorts of rims. Many people do have sloppy mounting technique, so it's the first thing to look at. Besides, we all hope it is something that can be prevented and not just happen randomly. 

Can you tell us what tubes you used, how long after mounting did the tires blow, were you riding at the time, etc?


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## swlightn (Oct 1, 2008)

I have a lot of blow offs with Alpha 340 rims.

1. Hutchinson Atom comp + Performance Regular tube + 110psi
It originally started with very long wire stick in.
Wheel rotated several turns after wire stick in and tire was popped out and exploded.
It may be a just bad luck.

2. Hutchinson Atom comp + Performance Regular tube + 120psi(?)
After first blow out, I changed tube and inflated with CO2.
I don't know the real pressure, but at least it is higher than 110psi.

Explosion happens after 5 minutes after the inflation.

After this explosion, I reduced pressure much less (not sure about the exact one, but pumped with Topeak Micro Rocket around 400 times, and it probably around 80 psi), and then it was okay.

3. Hutchinson Intensive + Performance Regular tube + 100psi
Tire sidewall is separated and I mistakenly removed all separated part to the bead area.
This makes bead area a little bit smaller and made easy to separate from the rim.

It happens twice during the riding and happens several time 15 minutes after the riding.

4. Hutchinson Fusion 2 + Performance Regular tube + 100psi
This tire is used a little bit and loose on the bead area.
Explosion happens several time after the riding when I placed bicycle in my car.
Maybe high temperature in the car affect something.

5. Hutchinson Intensive (New) + Performance Regular tube + 100psi
After changing new tire, explosion disappeared.

But I found cracks in the spoke hole area and replaced the rim.

After changing rim, no more explosion happens.



It seems A340 rim is a little bit tricky to use.
I found out some conditions to make explosions.

1. High pressure
2. Too loose tire

I also experienced explosion with Hutchinson Fusion 2 along with Easton EA 90 SLX.
It looks like Hutchinson Fusion 2 is a little loose.
I'm still using Hutchinson Fusion 2 in the other wheel, but still okay.

Careful installation may be helpful.
During the installation, both side beads are located in the center channel.
During inflation, tube pushes beads to the hook area by pressure.
I also suspect that tube can be pinched during the beads moving to the hook area.
But, not sure about this.

I usually inflate up to 10-20 psi, to check bead area by pushing tire if tube is pinched or not.
After that, inflate up to 30 psi, to check beads are moved to hook area.
Usually some part of the bead are not pushed up to the hook area, I pushed tire a little bit and then bead is moving to the hook area.

And then, I deflate tube fully.
After this, tire should still in the same position (Hook area).
This part is necessary for the unused tire installation.
Optional for the used one.

Finally, I slowly inflate up to 100 psi.

I usually inflate 100 psi 10-12 hours before riding.
During the riding time, pressure will be less than 100 psi.


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## durianrider (Sep 26, 2009)

I wished I had read the forums before I bought my stans rims.

Ive been blowing tyres off both the latest gen 340 & 400 stans alpha rims. Ive emailed Stans with no reply ever. I browsed their forum and magically threads about Stans 340 tyres blowing off get deleted.

Id say this product is dangerous enough for a recall.

I used both new and old Vitoria Corsa, GP4000s and Maxxis refuse tyres. Tried using different rim tapes and different style tubes. Ive riden over 250 000km with NEVER a tyre being blown off the rim until I started using Stans Alpha 340 & 400 rims.


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## Kristatos (Jan 10, 2008)

So far I haven't had any problems with Hutchinson Fusion 3s (tubeless w/sealant) on the 340s on my wife's bike - seems like all of the issues are with folks running tubes. I didn't have the spoke tension issue either - the wheels have been great. 

Regarding all the mtn bike comments - I run Crest on the wife's mtb and Arches on mine, both tubeless, never had any issues. 

Seems like the common denominator here is road tires with tubes.


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## rruff (Feb 28, 2006)

A small percentage have had any problems at all, but I've heard of a tubeless tire coming off as well. In that case the bead was damaged (overstretched or something). 

The carbon bead in tubeless tires would probably be safer at least. And I'm pretty certain that your tension dropped a lot just like everyone else's, but in your case it wasn't enough to be a problem, or it was compensated for in the build.


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## thprice (Oct 12, 2011)

I have about 10,000 km up on the older 340 rims (built with nipple washers). Conti 4000s, Conti Light tubes and Veloplugs. Tyres are inflated 95 / 100 psi. No issues to date, no blow offs ... touch wood.


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## Enoch562 (May 13, 2010)

I have a set of 340's I ride all the time. i do NOT run 4000's on them.

I just cringe everytime I see this thread get bumped back up.


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## Speed_Metal (Feb 9, 2004)

Enoch562 said:


> I have a set of 340's I ride all the time. i do NOT run 4000's on them.
> 
> I just cringe everytime I see this thread get bumped back up.


time to cringe again

I got a new pair of stan's alpha 340s custom built (dave thomas/speed dream) over the winter. i had less than 300 miles on them when the rear tire blows right off the rim. i was using conti gp4000 700/23 with tubes. thankfully i wasn't going too fast (as usual ), and riding a straight line. i had inflated the rear tire to 110 or 115 psi (i weigh 173). and the rim has 2 layers of the 21 mm tape.

when i got back home i searched the internet to see if incidents like this were experienced by anybody else.

i also run the gp4000 on a pair of velocity aerohead rims. they fit MUCH looser, but i've never experienced a tire blowing off these rims

i was shocked at how well these wheels performed compared to the aerohead wheels (velocity is 28-spoke rear, stan's is 24 spoke rear), but i'm scared to use this wheelset now. 

the builder has offered to rebuild using HED Belgium C2 rims. does anybody have a comparison?
should i send the rear wheel back and have him lace up another stan's rim (there's an abrasion in the aluminum on top of the side wall when it hit the pavement), and use a different brand tire?


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## Enoch562 (May 13, 2010)

Maybe a different tire????

If you going to do a rebuild, I would use the Pacenti SL 23 rim. EVERY tire fits tight on them.


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## nerd (Apr 5, 2006)

I ended up rebuilding mine with the HPlusSon Archetypes. I had to go with the Archetypes because of a 20-hole front. HED isn't shipping 20 hole Belgiums to people like me. I opted to replace the rims since I ride a lot of fast, twisting descents and did not want to have a blowout in a corner at speed.

The Archetypes have made it a heavier wheelset that feels slower in accelerations but at the same time they have made it a safer wheel. No blowouts in thousands of miles. For me the decision was peace-of-mind and thus easy to make.


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## tednugent (Apr 26, 2010)

Curious... how many layers of tape? the standard 2 layers as delivered by notubes?

Are the results the same if only 1 layer was used?


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## rruff (Feb 28, 2006)

One layer will make the make the tire less tight, and two layers is needed over the holes.


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## Speed_Metal (Feb 9, 2004)

sorry, i think i'm misinformed with this post so i deleted it


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## tednugent (Apr 26, 2010)

rruff said:


> One layer will make the make the tire less tight, and two layers is needed over the holes.


For a low pressure tubeless application (ie mountain & cross), one layer is sufficient in many cases..... I use one layer of tape for my Alpha 400 for my cross tubeless.

for a high pressure tubeless application (ie road), then 2 layers are required.

Since the blowouts are with tubed applications, a single layer may (or may not) make a difference.


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