# Caad 2011 (10?)



## Fuoco

*Caad 2011 (10?) <--- picture*

Hi,
someone have some info about caad 2011? Will it be the 10?
I heard about internal cable routing and no handmade in usa


----------



## jlandry

Correct on the "no handmade in USA".
Don't know about the other 2 questions.


----------



## Fuoco




----------



## Fuoco




----------



## CdaleNut

anyone know of any price range of that ? is that gonna be more of a 5 ( low end ) or the 1 ( high end $3,000 ) range


----------



## Fuoco

I think the price will be the same... it depends from the groupset


----------



## cryoplasm

Quite a few changes, rear, top and front. 

Where was the first picture taken, is that snow this time of year?


----------



## Dan Gerous

cryoplasm said:


> Quite a few changes, rear, top and front.
> 
> Where was the first picture taken, is that snow this time of year?


In the Park City area... There was some snow this week yeah.


----------



## squareslinky

Any other pics out there?


----------



## Dan Gerous

squareslinky said:


> Any other pics out there?


Tomorrow midnight.


----------



## CdaleNut

whats so special about tomorrow at midnight ?


----------



## Dan Gerous

CdaleNut said:


> whats so special about tomorrow at midnight ?


Cannondale will show us all their new bikes and the medias that covered the bike launches will be free to show them and talk about them.


----------



## King of Pain

How was the view at Beaver Creek?


----------



## wrshultz

Where are the pics and info on the 2011 road and CX models that were promised after midnight last night??


----------



## CdaleNut

ya know i was wondering the same thing...................the cannondale website has nothing on it yet and i did a general search on the whole internet for 2011 cannondales and the only thing i came up with is a few pics of some mtb cannondales.


----------



## 2cans

I was looking for photos last nite , maybe only the mt bike range was too be released. any way i got a gut feeling that theres not " real changes" heres to hopin im wrong : - ) ohh ya if armstrong dosnt like my use of smile face he can kiss @$$


----------



## Dan Gerous

CAAD 10 Dura-Ace in black...

Top tube and downtube shapes are obvious changes. Also, both the CAAD 10 and SuperX carbon cross bikes both have tapered steerers.


----------



## junior varsity

Thanks for stealing my pic!


----------



## Bad Ronald

Here is a close up of the downtube so you can see the mask and blast treatment.

-R


----------



## CdaleNut

i still want more pics...........and for the caad10 1 how much is it ? when is the whole lineup with details,specs and prices coming out ?


----------



## Dan Gerous

junior varsity said:


> Thanks for stealing my pic!


I had to share! Although I could argue that you stole it first and I stole it from a thief! 

Nice finish Ron, although like my old 'Galvanized Gloss', I'm sure it looks a lot better with your own eyes, that pictures don't give the finish justice.


----------



## junior varsity

The CAAD 10 1 is roughly MSRP of $3200.

It was upgraded to Ultegra brakes too.


----------



## -dustin

SuperX looks hot. Nothing else in the '11 catalog really did anything for me. New Jekyll is kind of cool. Was kind of disappointed that the Super Six HiMod w/ Red came with Red cranks and not SI SLs.


----------



## CdaleNut

how can the rest of us get a look at the 2011 catalog ?


----------



## Caine

Some '11 bikes can be seen here:

http://www.biker-boarder.de/shopwar...sSearch=cannondale 2011&Submit=Senden&sPage=1


----------



## krtassoc

On the German bike shop site...it looks like the Super Six with Shimano 105...with an adjustment for VAT and Euro...is about $2,000 US. Looks like a nice bike...I like the Team Replica (Liquigas) color scheme...but the black paint scheme looks good, too!


----------



## Fuoco

Alu 2011 are bad...


----------



## repro

-dustin said:


> SuperX looks hot. Nothing else in the '11 catalog really did anything for me. New Jekyll is kind of cool. Was kind of disappointed that the Super Six HiMod w/ Red came with Red cranks and not SI SLs.


Yes super six 2011 very disappointing, looks it's the same frame as the 2010 apart from the colours, what happened to all that evo hype?

Also isn't a new red supposed to come out in 2011? It doesn t seem to feature that, unless I can't see it on the pics/ specs


----------



## Devastator

Anyone else think the Supersix decals looks ugly and not really like the colors other than the team replica. The CAAD 10 looks sweet in black. That SuperX is badass lokkin too.


----------



## junior varsity

Everything about the evo for '11 was just internet chatter. Same thing with the internal cable routing on the CAAD 10.

The SuperSix HiMod is the same frame as 2010 but with updated graphics. As someone who has seen the whole line, yes the SuperSix full carbon starts as $2130 US (105), it is pretty solid.

No new red for '11. Gotta love the internet. Rumor central.


----------



## Caine

Clearly all of their efforts went towards the off road lines. A "team replica" with the Liquigas removed? Really?


----------



## repro

junior varsity said:


> Everything about the evo for '11 was just internet chatter. Same thing with the internal cable routing on the CAAD 10.
> 
> The SuperSix HiMod is the same frame as 2010 but with updated graphics. As someone who has seen the whole line, yes the SuperSix full carbon starts as $2130 US (105), it is pretty solid.
> 
> No new red for '11. Gotta love the internet. Rumor central.


tnx for the update....

so if applying the same conversion the Supersix with Ultegra is at c. USD2,700, which is 1000 less than this year's supersix 3, plus it seems the 2011 is HI MOD on ultegra....means that the 10 owners paid for the R&D and now they are mass producing


----------



## -dustin

SS3 is not hi-mod and will go for $3k on the low end.


----------



## Devastator

repro said:


> tnx for the update....
> 
> so if applying the same conversion the Supersix with Ultegra is at c. USD2,700, which is 1000 less than this year's supersix 3, plus it seems the 2011 is HI MOD on ultegra....means that the 10 owners paid for the R&D and now they are mass producing


There is a HiMod DA and non Himod DA Im not seeing an Ultegra Himod. its 1300 more euros for a Himod. Had me worried my HM was gona less exclusive, but not really.


----------



## repro

Devastator said:


> There is a HiMod DA and non Himod DA Im not seeing an Ultegra Himod. its 1300 more euros for a Himod. Had me worried my HM was gona less exclusive, but not really.


ok seems the bike shop screwed up the spec table as it says HI MOD on the ultegra one, but it says it even for the 105, but still offering the same bike 750 bucks cheaper a year later


----------



## junior varsity

The $3200 price for the '11SuperSix Ultegra is around $500 lower than '10. However, there are some spec changes (wheels, H-bar, stem, seatpost, brakes) that enabled the price reduction. So yeah, less expensive parts on the same frame equals a less expensive bike.


----------



## ph0enix

krtassoc said:


> On the German bike shop site...it looks like the Super Six with Shimano 105...with an adjustment for VAT and Euro...is about $2,000 US.


How do you figure?

1 Euro = 1.2322 USD


----------



## krtassoc

'Less' VAT (Value-added tax)


----------



## CHL

Hi Dan Gerous:

How did the 2011 CAAD10 compare to the CAAD9? Overall, did the larger head tube, top/down tube juncture yield a more stable and better handling bicycle? Would you compare it to the original and current Super Six in terms of handling?

Funny but the CAAD line had a more attractive paint scheme than that of the Super Six line in 2010. From the pictures you have posted, looks to be a continuing trend.

CHL


----------



## Dan Gerous

CHL said:


> Hi Dan Gerous:
> 
> How did the 2011 CAAD10 compare to the CAAD9? Overall, did the larger head tube, top/down tube juncture yield a more stable and better handling bicycle? Would you compare it to the original and current Super Six in terms of handling?
> 
> Funny but the CAAD line had a more attractive paint scheme than that of the Super Six line in 2010. From the pictures you have posted, looks to be a continuing trend.
> 
> CHL


I haven't tried the CAAD 10, but the comments I heard from those who did is that yes, the front end is stiffer and improves the stability and handling, a better descender. Kind of like the improvement from the 09 SuperSix to the 2010 SuperSix in that area. It's also a bit lighter and the top tube - seatstays junction around the seat tube seems shaped a bit like the Flash mountain bike to improve lateral stiffness but keep the comfort... The seat tube also looks flared to become wider at the BB for improved stiffness there too.

I prefered the SuperSix colors to the CAAD 9 in 2010 but the 2011 CAAD 10 are looking pretty nice. Here's a picture BadBoyNY posted over at mtbr.com.

Also, we saw the carbon SuperX cross bikes but there are also more affordable CAADX cross bikes which are CAAD 10 cross frames.


----------



## -dustin

Perhaps I read incorrectly, but it sounded as though the CAADX and SuperX frames had different geometries (the SuperX was sporting a shorter headtube?)...you recall that at all?


----------



## junior varsity

You are correct


----------



## Opus51569

My apologies if you've already checked this out and I'm stating the obvious, but there is a review of the 2011 CAAD10 right on the Forum page. It doesn't go into a lot of detail, but it does mention some of the tubing changes.


----------



## tindrum

Fuoco said:


> Alu 2011 are bad...



bad as in good or bad as in crappy?

tell us more!


----------



## agreen99

is there a release date for the CAAD10 complete bikes? I'm looking at CAAD9-4s presently, should I wait?


----------



## Fuoco

agreen99 said:


> is there a release date for the CAAD10 complete bikes? I'm looking at CAAD9-4s presently, should I wait?


 lighter and stiffer VS the last handmade in usa... your choice...


----------



## aengbretson

agreen99 said:


> *is there a release date for the CAAD10 complete bikes?* I'm looking at CAAD9-4s presently, should I wait?


Does anybody know?

I'm in the same boat... I was about to order one but the white/black paint scheme is entrancing and if they plan on making a Sram-equipped CAAD10 I'd wait for it even if it won't be made in the USA anymore (although the new welds to look a little more like someone used caulk and didn't smooth it over with their finger).


----------



## CHL

RBR had very good closeups of the caad10. Tapered head tube and revised downtube match to a revised top tube that looks a lot like the System Six top tube. It has the Synapse SAVE chain stay. I couldnt tell if the seat stays kept their hour glass shape or if they were straight. It sure looks like a wicked ride. If the fork is fairly light, it shouldnt be difficult to achieve sub 15lbs with ease. If it has the ride qualities of the System, it will do justice to its much heralled predecessor.

CHL


----------



## Devastator

aengbretson said:


> Does anybody know?
> 
> (although the new welds to look a little more like someone used caulk and didn't smooth it over with their finger).


That to me is the only downside I can see about the bike, which to me is minor. I like the color and decal of that white CAAD. It doenst carry teh Handmade thing, but like my Super Id rather have the a better performing bike than the pride. Also interesting how the front derailer hangs.




CHL said:


> a revised top tube that looks a lot like the System Six top tube.
> 
> CHL


I was thinking it looked like a Systems top tube, but maybe thinner like an 09 Super Toptube


----------



## AJL

I'm curious if the use of 'save' technology soaks up cracked chip and seal any better than the CAAD9, or is it just marketing?


----------



## Devastator

AJL said:


> I'm curious if the use of 'save' technology soaks up cracked chip and seal any better than the CAAD9, or is it just marketing?


Pretty sure it already uses SAVE. System did, which is basically a CAAD 9 rear.


----------



## Caine

Neither the System Six nor the CAAD 9 have S.A.V.E. stays.


----------



## Fuoco

that is awesome about the caad9 is its comfort... save or not save...


----------



## easyridernyc

so the caad 10 replaces the caad 9

http://reviews.roadbikereview.com/blog/first-look-2011-cannondale-caad10/

nice bike. wont be cheap tho


----------



## junior varsity

Same basic pricing as the '10 CAAD 9s.

That ultegra bike is around $2100


----------



## CdaleNut

when will the full lineup be released so we can see all the paint schemes on the rest of the CAAD 10's


----------



## hmai18

2011 road catalogue: http://www.bdc-forum.it/images/pdf/cannondale11.pdf


----------



## Nimitz

damn 200g lighter? that's quite a bit for an already lightweight frame (1150g for a 56)

talk about even MORE bang for the buck? 

does cannondale still have the frame upgrade option? if so I maybe looking to trade up! 

Chad


----------



## aengbretson

I noticed no CAAD10 Sram option and they only have compact cranks in that catalogue. Now I'm really torn between the CAAD9-4 and CAAD10! Maybe I get the 9-4 and then just do a frame upgrade next year???


----------



## easyridernyc

man, 2100 bucks for alu caad nine

why not just do the six, might as well


----------



## Nimitz

easyridernyc said:


> man, 2100 bucks for alu caad nine
> 
> why not just do the six, might as well


where do you see the caad10 for (not 9) for 2100 bucks?

people have said the price is going to be about the same

the supersix w/ 105 is around $2100

the ultegra caad10 is around $2100

at that pricepoint it'd be a toss up for me as well fi they had a Rival bike for around 1800...that'd be  

Chad


----------



## DCD 2005

Speaking of the six, I cannot find it in the 2011 catalog.


----------



## agreen99

well, I've decided. Definitely getting a CAAD9-4, going to get fitted Monday. Look at the fit and finish on the CAAD9, and the CAAD10 looks poor by comparison. I don't see any point in waiting.


----------



## AJL

agreen99 said:


> well, I've decided. Definitely getting a CAAD9-4, going to get fitted Monday. Look at the fit and finish on the CAAD9, and the CAAD10 looks poor by comparison. I don't see any point in waiting.


That's sad to hear.


----------



## Nimitz

agreen99 said:


> well, I've decided. Definitely getting a CAAD9-4, going to get fitted Monday. Look at the fit and finish on the CAAD9, and the CAAD10 looks poor by comparison. I don't see any point in waiting.


no offense but how in the world have you determined that fit and finish are different?

I'd wait and if you still really want the 9-4 it'll be cheaper:thumbsup: 

Chad


----------



## -dustin

...assuming you'd still be able to find a CAAD9 4....

The "Six" is no more. Either SuperSix Hi-Mod or SuperSix.

And I don't think that's the US catalog. There's a SRAM option here in the US, just as there was for the CAAD9s.


----------



## agreen99

exactly. the pictured white CAAD10-3 looks like an actual production bike to me. Looking closely at the pics, the finished weld quality would bug me. Slightly lighter, slightly more rigid - maybe. I can tell the difference brought by BB30, but not so sure some tube shaping will be noticeable at my skill level.

My friends have broken many pre-trek Kleins, so I believe there's a limit on how thin you can work AL til it becomes a one-or-two seasons frame. 

Besides, it's available now, and waiting isn't for me.

ymmv


----------



## Nimitz

so does anyone really care that this bike is made in Taiwan?

over on bikeforums.net there is a very similar thread that went in a completely different direction saying that Dorel is taking over on R&D and going to make crap bikes.

everyone here seems so far to like the new caad10...

http://www.bikeforums.net/showthread.php?657176-Caad10

Chad


----------



## AvantDale

This is the interweb...where everybody is an "expert".

I bet that 100% of the people saying that the CAAD10 will suck has never rode one or ever will...or is taking second hand info as theirs.


----------



## 88 rex

That CAAD 10 toptube/seatstay/seat tube interface is very "Flash"ish. Even the chainstays with the SAVE are very much like my Flash. Looks like they aren't using the SAVE seatstays though. My flash is very stiff in the rear, yet pretty darn "comfy" for an aluminum hardtail. 

Just waiting on pricing and spec.


EDIT: CAAD8 BB30 looks promising. Nice paint too.


----------



## cryoplasm




----------



## zamboni

Caad 10 would be made in Far East, so long caad 9 last one coming out of PA.


----------



## Nimitz

zamboni said:


> Caad 10 would be made in Far East, so long caad 9 last one coming out of PA.


thanks absolutely no one in this thread knew that piece of insider information what would RBR do without you? 

Chad


----------



## jlandry

Nimitz said:


> thanks absolutely no one in this thread knew that piece of insider information what would RBR do without you?
> 
> Chad


I LOLed:thumbsup:


----------



## krtassoc

Yes...there is a Rival version in the US! http://www.cyclingnews.com/features/first-look-2011-cannondale-caad10-and-superx

http://www.cyclingnews.com/features/first-look-2011-cannondale-caad10-and-superx


----------



## Nimitz

krtassoc said:


> Yes...there is a Rival version in the US! http://www.cyclingnews.com/features/first-look-2011-cannondale-caad10-and-superx
> 
> http://www.cyclingnews.com/features/first-look-2011-cannondale-caad10-and-superx


$1800 like I said...nice. are those MSRP's?

Chad


----------



## T K

So by pure looks, I am not impressed at all. I think the Caad 9 looks way better. 10 looks to much like the SS which I really don't care for, looks wise. I like the curved top tube of the 9. Somthing about the new bike just does not do it for me. I really had my hopes up. 
Oh well. 
I guess I'll save some money next year by not buying one.


----------



## electech

I wonder when the last date to order a Caad 9-4 would be?


----------



## Dan Gerous

T K said:


> So by pure looks, I am not impressed at all. I think the Caad 9 looks way better. 10 looks to much like the SS which I really don't care for, looks wise. I like the curved top tube of the 9. Somthing about the new bike just does not do it for me. I really had my hopes up.
> Oh well.
> I guess I'll save some money next year by not buying one.


You buy for the look? Cannondales have always been designed more for function and performance over looking good. I personally think they end up looking good, simple, no useless gimmicks, to the point functional looking... The 10 looks a bit more modern, more refined, less old-school. And I'd take a stiffer and lighter CAAD 10 over a CAAD 9 (and I'm not sure I understand what you mean by curved top tube on the 9, it's as straight as they come).


electech said:


> I wonder when the last date to order a Caad 9-4 would be?


Better get one now, there is no date, as soon as they are out of stock, so long CAAD 9.


----------



## T K

Dan Gerous said:


> You buy for the look? Cannondales have always been designed more for function and performance over looking good. I personally think they end up looking good, simple, no useless gimmicks, to the point functional looking... The 10 looks a bit more modern, more refined, less old-school. And I'd take a stiffer and lighter CAAD 10 over a CAAD 9 (and I'm not sure I understand what you mean by curved top tube on the 9, it's as straight as they come).
> Better get one now, there is no date, as soon as they are out of stock, so long CAAD 9.


No, I don't buy by looks! But, my 9 is perfectly good and I would have only been tempted to buy a 10 if it wowed me. It does not. So I'm in no hurry. 
I guess by curved I meant by the way it is shaped at the head tube juncture it does give it a curved look as aposed to the SS. Hardley "straight as they come".
Guess it's how you look at it. The 10 looks more old to me. 9 looks more refined.


----------



## CHL

I like the appearance of the CAAD10 except for the straight seat stays. Bring back the bladed hourglass seat stays. It probably woudn't have added much to the bike's performance but esthetically, I always found them to be the sexiest part of a Cannondale road bike.

CHL


----------



## Devastator

T K said:


> No, I don't buy by looks! But, my 9 is perfectly good and I would have only been tempted to buy a 10 if it wowed me. It does not. So I'm in no hurry.
> I guess by curved I meant by the way it is shaped at the head tube juncture it does give it a curved look as aposed to the SS. Hardley "straight as they come".
> Guess it's how you look at it. The 10 looks more old to me. 9 looks more refined.


The reason you dont have any wow factor is you have not ridden a CAAD 10. It maybe loosely resembles an 08 or 09 Super or a System. Im guessing with the SAVE seat stays itll be more comfortable and its should have a stiffer front end as well as dropping almost 1/2 lb off the weight. Seems like its a pretty damn nice update, better than the 10-11 Super, it just got uglier decals.


----------



## fueledbymetal

electech said:


> I wonder when the last date to order a Caad 9-4 would be?


I ordered one two weeks ago. My LBS said the scheduled production run was sold out and C-dale had enough parts for one last limited run. Mine was one of the last of that extra run, so it may be too late now.


----------



## leo_NM

Is the stiffness of the 2011 model the same of the 2010 ? They made some emprovements in confort but....What aboult the famous performance of the caad ?

thank you 
leo


----------



## Devastator

leo_NM said:


> Is the stiffness of the 2011 model the same of the 2010 ? They made some emprovements in confort but....What aboult the famous performance of the caad ?
> 
> thank you
> leo


Let me refer you to the above.


Devastator said:


> The reason you dont have any wow factor is you have not ridden a CAAD 10. It maybe loosely resembles an 08 or 09 Super or a System. Im guessing with the *SAVE seat stays itll be more comfortable and its should have a stiffer front end as well as dropping almost 1/2 lb off the weight.* Seems like its a pretty damn nice update, better than the 10-11 Super, it just got uglier decals.


----------



## AvantDale

Lol...people are writing off the frame without ever riding it.


----------



## Devastator

AvantDale said:


> Lol...people are writing off the frame without ever riding it.


Well its not handmade in teh US so it cant be very good, like the 10 Super terrible bike.


----------



## AvantDale

Didn't the 2010 Super have less issues than teh US made ones?


----------



## Nimitz

Devastator said:


> Well its not handmade in teh US so it cant be very good, like the 10 Super terrible bike.


or all those other manufacturers crappy bikes right? 

Chad


----------



## AJL

This conversation should be tabled till we get an actual review of a production CAAD 10.


----------



## T K

AvantDale said:


> Lol...people are writing off the frame without ever riding it.


I don't think anyone is really doing that. 
I'm sure it is better than the 9. But my deal is, I need another bike like a hole in the head. So unless I saw it and thought I couldn't live without it or thought it would make me win more races, I'll just hold off for now.


----------



## ninjaslim

Thanks for posting this, very interesting

So.... whats the difference this year between super six and super six Hi-mod 
and whats the difference between them and the 2010 Super Six & Hi mod? 

Will I notice, should I care? 

Wondering whether 2011 super six or super six hi mod are good enough to make me consider parting with my 2007 System 6 for?


----------



## Devastator

ninjaslim said:


> Thanks for posting this, very interesting
> 
> So.... whats the difference this year between super six and super six Hi-mod
> and whats the difference between them and the 2010 Super Six & Hi mod?
> 
> Will I notice, should I care?
> 
> Wondering whether 2011 super six or super six hi mod are good enough to make me consider parting with my 2007 System 6 for?


09 All Supers were Himod. For 2010 there is a Std-Mod and Hi-Mod. According to Starnut the 10 Std-Mod still has more Himod carbon than the 09 Hi-Mod. For the 10 Super the only difference supposedly is the weight, they are built equally stiff, the standard mod has thicker walls due to use of less Hi-Mod carbon. I dont believe there was any changes other than the color schemes for 2011. As far as Im concerned the 07 System is one of the best bike Cannondale made. I think the System is still stiffer than the Super, and you get a better feel of the road. But I like my 10 Super Hi-Mod too. It has a better ride and is lighter. It is very stiff, just not quite the same as the System. IMO Hi-Mod is sorta gimicky. I would not part with a System ever, if you were wondering is the 10 Super worth having in the collection, Id say absolutley.


----------



## ninjaslim

cheers Devastator

How the hell would I decide which one to ride? I'm not sure I could handle that, let alone afford it.


----------



## easyridernyc

yeah that's what i meant 2100 for a ten, why not just get a six, with the same footprint no way the aluminum frame is gonna outperform the carbon. right? unless you're talking groupsets, the 105 on the 09 six vs ultegra on the '11 10, both models around 2100.

i would think a compact set up on the six five with a 105 would smoke the 2010 ten with the ultegra group, no contest, even as great as the caad aluminum frame is supposed to be. looks like cannondale riders wont have that choice, though, i think they are eliminating the six altogether for '11

i like the 09 six five, especially with an 09 discount. too bad its not compact


----------



## Devastator

easyridernyc said:


> yeah that's what i meant 2100 for a ten, why not just get a six, with the same footprint no way the aluminum frame is gonna outperform the carbon. right? unless you're talking groupsets, the 105 on the 09 six vs ultegra on the '11 10, both models around 2100.
> 
> i would think a compact set up on the six five with a 105 would smoke the 2010 ten with the ultegra group, no contest, even as great as the caad aluminum frame is supposed to be. looks like cannondale riders wont have that choice, though, i think they are eliminating the six altogether for '11
> 
> i like the 09 six five, especially with an 09 discount. too bad its not compact


My guess is the CAAD 10 is lighter than a Six, esp 09 Six. Im not sure what you are saying, but esp in a sprint no Six will smoke any CAAD 9 or 10 no matter the group.


----------



## Bad Ronald

Initial reports from the sales meeting say that the CAAD10 is as good or even better than the super six in terms of ride quality.


----------



## easyridernyc

i dont get it.

if carbon is supposed to be the better material, and costs more and performs better, 
how can the aluminum bike, the 011 caad 10, similarly spec'd, be in the same class? which kinda begs the next question. if the aluminum bike is that competitive...why use carbon at all? maybe that's part of the reason why cannondale is phasing the six out. i'm not sure why this particular aluminum/carbon logic wouldnt apply to the rest of cannondale's carbon line, at least until you get towards the top of the carbon class. what's good for the goose.

but i thought this question had already been decided, that carbon was, by far, the superior material. now, suddenly, or at least for the purposes of the caad 10....

its not?


----------



## ninjaslim

easyridernyc - Cannondale are THE aluminium masters.

my CAAD9 with is very exciting and comfortable the only place it loses out to my System six (Carbon Front end) is front end stiffness that is like having an extra gear when sprinting and climbing. Reports on the first iterations of the Super Six were that it didn't reach that outright engaging stiffness of the System Six. It sounds like 2010 Himod gets close though. 

I'm intrigued by CAAD10 and if the reports have it that it's as good as the System Six, I can imagine I may never get to own a full carbon Cannondale. These guys really are the state of the art when it comes to aluminium frame design. 

Most carbon and aluminium frames are / have been over built, but not cannondale, I'm sure there are plenty of other top end manufacturers who don't routinely overbuild, but few have been doing it as well for as long as Cannondale.

Looking forward to hearing more about the CAAD10 ride. 

I'm getting excited about the prospect of replacing a part carbon frame with an all aluminium one, but I am a sucker for pedigree and the fact that Basso won the '10 Giro on a Super six Hi-mod really does have me wanting that frame. Aaaahh decisions....


----------



## Devastator

easyridernyc said:


> i dont get it.
> 
> if carbon is supposed to be the better material, and costs more and performs better,
> how can the aluminum bike, the 011 caad 10, similarly spec'd, be in the same class? which kinda begs the next question. if the aluminum bike is that competitive...why use carbon at all? maybe that's part of the reason why cannondale is phasing the six out. i'm not sure why this particular aluminum/carbon logic wouldnt apply to the rest of cannondale's carbon line, at least until you get towards the top of the carbon class. what's good for the goose.
> 
> but i thought this question had already been decided, that carbon was, by far, the superior material. now, suddenly, or at least for the purposes of the caad 10....
> 
> its not?


The CAAD 9 is 2.75 lbs the carbon Six is 3 lbs. That would mean the CAAD 10 would be near 2.25 lbs. Low grade carbon bikes dont necessarily out perform high end aluminum. Carbon doesnt always mean lighter and stiffer.


----------



## Bad Ronald

The reason for Carbon is weight. The CAAD10 will not get down in weight the way Carbon can. Carbon is also a little more tunable than alloy, however with all of new hydroforming and 3D forging possibilities the differences are getting narrower. Obviously if the Carbon frame is 200 - 300 grams lighter, rides amazing and money is no object a Super Six is a fine choice. If price is a concern and weight is less of a factor then the CAAD10 will give you just as much enjoyment. I think that is the statement that Cdale is making with that bike.


----------



## AvantDale

I always thought of the CAAD as an alternative to the Supers.

It may not be as "comfortable" as a Super...but performance-wise its up to par.


----------



## BikeFixer

CHL said:


> I like the appearance of the CAAD10 except for the straight seat stays. Bring back the bladed hourglass seat stays. It probably woudn't have added much to the bike's performance but esthetically, I always found them to be the sexiest part of a Cannondale road bike.
> 
> CHL


Yeah it looks sweet but I agree the seatstays look ugly the top part where it joins the seat/top tube it looks clunky.
Im sure it rides awesome though


----------



## T K

easyridernyc said:


> i dont get it.


You're right, you don't.
Just because it is made out of carbon does not make it better. A high quality aluminum, ti or even steel bike will outperform and may weigh less than a lower quality carbon bike. 
Again, just because it is carbon does not mean it is better. Lots of factors are involved. You knew this right, and your just playing with us?:mad2:


----------



## lesper4

(not to change the subject) but is it possible to buy a european cannondale here in the states?


----------



## T K

Only if you know somebody over there who would buy it at a shop and then send it to you.


----------



## ninjaslim

I'd do that in exchange for a similar service on ebay products where sellers won't ship out of the US (to the UK)
but you'd have warranty problems or would have to send it back if there were any issues.


----------



## T K

but you'd have warranty problems or would have to send it back if there were any issues.[/QUOTE]
Don't think so. If you have the reciept and you take it to an official Cdale dealer, shouldn't matter where it is.


----------



## lesper4

OK thanks you guys can get back on topic.


----------



## easyridernyc

high quality aluminum over carbon, yeah, definitely. steel, that's kinda pushin it

just playing the devil's advocate above, my point is that if cannondale's aluminum frames are so great, why commit to carbon except where it can improve on the aluminum? from what i am reading here, the hi mod carbon is where the rubber starts to hit the road, maybe that's why cannondale is phasing out at least one (the six) of its carbon frame models. from what i see and hear, yeah, the cadd nine, soon to be cadd ten, is that good of a bike, maybe too good to justify keeping the six around. 

i too have been committed to aluminum, at first for the weight and cost advantage, but after adding stays to the fork of my second aluminum frame, a lot had to do with performance, too. i dont race or anything, so dont get me wrong, but i put my felt 75 up against any aluminum frame out there, including the caad 9. what gets me about the nine, and the ten, too, i guess, is that as great as the aluminum frame is, cannondale still recognizes the efficacy of the carbon fiber--why wouldnt they add carbon stays to the nine/ten set up? that would make for 

one 
nasty 
f*kkin 
bike.


----------



## T K

First, the 6 was just to give buyers a lower cost carbon alternative. Not as performance driven as the Caad. Giving buyers who want carbon, a middle ground. Not everyone wants aluminum or is a racer. Or wants to spend SS money. Nice compromise.
Second, please don't take us down the carbon seat stays road. We've been there. 
Cannodale and other manufacturers and many of us who have had them don't see any real advantage to them. They just add weight and carbon bling. That's about it.


----------



## easyridernyc

yeah but my point is

why the lower cost carbon alternative, at all? your logic seems a little funny, yeah carbon is great, but not great enough its too heavy and doesnt make a difference. if the alu is better quality, why bother with the carbon in the production line at all-- is that why the six is being phased out now, and what does that scenario imply, if anything, for the rest of the carbon line, excepting, of course, they very top of the line hi mod ??

i see your point about the comfort of carbon, but it still seems a bit counterintuitive to suggest on the one hand that carbon is both comfortable and performs well enough to suit the best riders, yet on the other, to tout the aluminum frames as the best in the world and yes, better than even carbon, too. something smells a little funny. i understand that it doesnt have to be all one or the other, but doesnt that suggest that a composite or carbon/alu mix would be a logical step for cannondale as a manufacturer??


----------



## T K

You are making the assumption that all materials are the same across the board. There are different grades of carbon and differnt grades of aluminum. Some people just want carbon. It's the new hot material. They don't care or just don't know the difference. You are in the don't know the difference camp. You are looking at it in black and white. 
Some will give up performance for comfort, some vice versa. Low grade carbon will be in most cases more comfortable than aluminum but not have the performance ie stiffness as a high grade carbon or aluminum. Aluminum can be stiff but not always the most comfortable ride. The 6 fell somewhere inbetween. If you want stiff and comfortable your gonna spend a lot of money on a high end carbon frame. If you want carbon bling and carbon comfort but don't want to spend a lot of money get a cheaper carbon bike, but it will be heavier and lower performance made of a lower grade carbon. Of course these are generalities.
Why do you think Specialized makes like 4 different Tarmacs. What do you really need and or how much do you want to spend? 
And, no one is saying Cdales aluminum frames are better or as good as their top carbon frames. But for a fraction of the cost, you can come close. That is what makes them so great!


----------



## krtassoc

https://a31.idata.over-blog.com/500x374/3/00/11/20/CANNONDALE/Photo0047.jpg


----------



## Devastator

easyridernyc said:


> yeah but my point is
> 
> is that why the six is being phased out now, and what does that scenario imply, if anything, for the rest of the carbon line, excepting, of course, they very top of the line hi mod ??
> 
> i understand that it doesnt have to be all one or the other, but doesnt that suggest that a composite or *carbon/alu mix* would be a logical step for cannondale as a manufacturer??


I like your thinking, unfortunately thats so 2005. They should make something awesome like the Systemsix my fav Cannondale. Does it make sense to stop production of winning-est frame youve ever manufactured? The Six is a bike that better fills the market demand than the Systemsix and is much cheaper. Youve shown that consumers dont always know whats best for them.


----------



## ninjaslim

Devastator said:


> I like your thinking, unfortunately thats so 2005. They should make something awesome like the Systemsix my fav Cannondale. Does it make sense to stop production of *winning-est frame* youve* ever *manufactured? The Six is a bike that better fills the market demand than the Systemsix and is much cheaper. Youve shown that consumers dont always know whats best for them.


+1

Although it does help to have two pro tour teams riding the frame and some 'inspired' riders riding for them, come on Kreuziger...


----------



## easyridernyc

coming close.


----------



## cryoplasm

We don't want to do the carbon/alloy mix debacle again. Cannondales have done the composite thing for some time, since 2003/4 with the Six13 as Devastator pointed out.

The late 2009 Six Alloy also was a composite mix with full carbon rear end.

Whilst most composites were not much more than gimmicks, the Six13 was some bike.


----------



## T K

The six 13 was sweet, but Joe consumer just didn't get it. So was the System six. It is sad when a company like Cannondale has to discontinue great bikes to make crap ones, like the six (aluminum front carbon rear) in an attemt to give the people what they want. 
How'd that work out for ya Cdale?


----------



## krtassoc

https://www.fiets.nl/uploads/news/NewsImageBig_939714201044501.jpg


----------



## intence

It's all about marketing. Joe consumer has been told that Carbon is best, and that's what he looks for, hence the Six in Cannondales lineup. Supposedly the '08 SystemSix and Six13 were both super stiff, but I don't think either sold particularly well .... I even managed to pick up a closeout Six13 in '09 at a very nice discount (ordered from Cannondale, so it was sitting in the warehouse, not the dealer's stock).

We'll see what happens next year when the SuperSix becomes the entry level Carbon bike, but still no idea what the weight of the frame will be (will it be the current SuperSix at a lower price, or a cheapened version that's heavier).

There are still many carbon frames that weight more than a CAAD9, and aren't as stiff. Right now there's just a lot of hype surrounding carbon, and Cannondale had to jump on the bandwagon if they didn't want to lose sales.


----------



## zamboni

I would rather have the carbon for the front & alum in rear just like system six.


----------



## RUV

I pray every night they reinstitute the system six.


----------



## easyridernyc

yeah that's a good point about joe consumer, its a tough marketing mix, six, super six, alu, carbon, alu/carbon, you say tomatoe...i think the best strategy is make the best bike you can, serve customers the best you can, and focus more of the marketing effort on complimenting quality on the product and service ends. all of the popular manufacturers have to deal with a problematic mix, cannondale's certainly no exception. 

imo they got a little caught up in the composite debate and have, recently at least, and for one sector of the market, responded with the quality production in caad nine and ten, especially in the frame construction. the rubber really meets the road when the al bikes are spec'd out, cannondale may not deliver the greatest _value_ pound for pound when compared to others, like felt, for example. just because you pay more for the package with the brand's name on it does not guarantee the best bike in class. i think the 0 11 felt 75, for example, could well smoke the caad 10, one of the main differences in past couple years has been the use of six and seven aluminum, which in itself was, and still is, a debate over efficacy between the similar models in class, i.e does the 6000 al and cannondale frame in the nine make it a better bike than the 7000 al and felt frame on the 75? spec wise the 75 was better overall (compact vs standard 105, mav 22's vs shimano 80's, felt fork and stays, etc). may still be in '011, question is is that 6000 aluminum that great of an upgrade over the seven, especially with felt's custom butts, and now, redesigned geometry, bb30, and other goodies passed down from high end specifications on the felt. i kinda doubt it. 

i am going to wait to compare the frame and specs for both '11 models, but i suspect felt still has a much better handle on the mix, and not just on the marketing and spec sides. a little birdie tells me the footprint this year is gonna be new and improved, too--you think the '11 caad ten looks nice? take a peek at the 11 felt 75 when it comes out next month. for the same money and better, this go round probably MUCH better specs, for me it will probably be a no brainer. but that is what it is, sometimes less money in marketing can result in better bang for the consumer buck--more resources wind up actually going into the bike, and less money goes to support the team and the corporation, medium is the message kind of thing. personally?

i like felt, i think they may in fact make better bikes than cannondale, i see at least one price point where they have, and may well, continue to deliver...

i will say that when buying my bike in '08 i remember seeing that 08 supersix zipping by and thinking i may have missed something. sounds like a nice one, a lot of cannondale guys still rave about the composite. but it looks like the six line is going down, i'm not sure they are not going to just keep upgrading the caad nine, caad ten. the '11 ten does look nice. it'll have competition, though, dont doubt it...


----------



## cryoplasm

LOL, what is he talking about. 

What a concentration of Internet crap here. Shouldn't you cyclists be outdoors??


----------



## Devastator

easyridernyc said:


> yeah that's a good point about joe consumer, its a tough marketing mix, six, super six, alu, carbon, alu/carbon, you say tomatoe...i think the best strategy is make the best bike you can, serve customers the best you can, and focus more of the marketing effort on complimenting quality on the product and service ends. all of the popular manufacturers have to deal with a problematic mix, cannondale's certainly no exception.
> 
> imo they got a little caught up in the composite debate and have, recently at least, and for one sector of the market, responded with the quality production in caad nine and ten, especially in the frame construction. the rubber really meets the road when the al bikes are spec'd out, cannondale may not deliver the greatest _value_ pound for pound when compared to others, like felt, for example. just because you pay more for the package with the brand's name on it does not guarantee the best bike in class. i think the 0 11 felt 75, for example, could well smoke the caad 10, one of the main differences in past couple years has been the use of six and seven aluminum, which in itself was, and still is, a debate over efficacy between the similar models in class, i.e does the 6000 al and cannondale frame in the nine make it a better bike than the 7000 al and felt frame on the 75? spec wise the 75 was better overall (compact vs standard 105, mav 22's vs shimano 80's, felt fork and stays, etc). may still be in '011, question is is that 6000 aluminum that great of an upgrade over the seven, especially with felt's custom butts, and now, redesigned geometry, bb30, and other goodies passed down from high end specifications. i kinda doubt it.
> 
> i am going to wait to compare the frame and specs for both '11 models, but i suspect felt still has a much better handle on the mix, and not just on the marketing and spec sides. a little birdie tells me the footprint this year is gonna be new and improved, too--you think the '11 caad ten looks nice? take a peek at the 11 felt 75 when it comes out next month. for the same money and better, this go round probably MUCH better specs, for me it will probably be a no brainer. but that is what it is, sometimes less money in marketing can result in better bang for the consumer buck--more resources wind up actually going into the bike, and less money goes to support the team and the corporation, medium is the message kind of thing. personally?
> 
> i like felt, i think they may in fact make better bikes than cannondale, i see at least one price point where they have, and may well, continue to deliver...
> 
> i will say that when buying my bike in '08 i remember seeing that 08 supersix zipping by and thinking i may have missed something. sounds like a nice one, a lot of cannondale guys still rave about the composite. but it looks like the six line is going down, i'm not sure they are not going to just keep upgrading the caad nine, caad ten. the '11 ten does look nice. it'll have competition, though, dont doubt it...


Felt has better handle on alu than the bike company who built their reputation on alu, Right. BB30 has a clear advantage in weight saving, and stiffness. Any Systemsix owner who cares about speed will tell you its a superior bike to any bike in the same price range. Hopefully you get a Felt so you dont defile Cannondale anymore.


----------



## easyridernyc

Devastator said:


> Felt has better handle on alu than the bike company who built their reputation on alu, Right. BB30 has a clear advantage in weight saving, and stiffness. Any Systemsix owner who cares about speed will tell you its a superior bike to any bike in the same price range. Hopefully you get a Felt so you dont defile Cannondale anymore.


you misquote, and you didnt read most of what i wrote. which is too bad, that invites bullshyt piggybacking.

i said felt has a better handle on the marketing mix, which includes any number of relevant factors (like aluminum, carbon, aluminum carbon, price, competiton in bikes similarly situated, etc). which is germane to the discussion. unfortunately thats part of the problem with cannondale owners, especially the inexperienced ones with a couple thousand bucks to spend on a bike who are drawn to cannondale simply for the reasons you cite above--a lot of them just think because its cannondale, its better. competitively, you cant put felt in that kind of category, sorry. as great as cannondale, and its history might be, my point is looking at the situation objectively, and in a rapidly evolving and competitive marketplace, screaming yeah its better just because isnt always the best way to make an informed purchasing decision. comparing the felt 75 to the caad nine or caad ten (which blockheaded cannondale owners wouldnt do, why? duh, cause cannondale is just better oof) isnt hurbris--its one way of looking at competitive product segments that yields an interesting and potentially differential result.

an intelligent response might consider the historical debate about carbon stays and the 6000 and 7000 aluminum, which, to some extent, has taken place at other times on this site...for me, it continues to be an interesting and germane discussion. oh and btw the new 75 will have the bb30 (i thought i said that), and cannondale, at least to my knowledge, is in fact phasing out the six series in favor of the new caads. bottom line is you can make the best bike in the world, but if isnt COST COMPETITIVE, your product, like any other product, is gonna be scrutinized in the competitve context of market economy. there is no vacuum in which its just better because.i stick by what i say. if you're gonna defend cannondale, i'm sure they themselves would appreciate something other than the ad hoc (see the duh defense above) deliberations you and your friend seem to offer up here.


----------



## Devastator

easyridernyc said:


> you misquote, and you didnt read most of what i wrote. which is too bad, that invites bullshyt piggybacking.
> 
> i said felt has a better handle on the marketing mix, which includes any number of relevant factors (like aluminum, carbon, aluminum carbon, price, competiton in bikes similarly situated, etc). which is germane to the discussion. unfortunately thats part of the problem with cannondale owners, especially the inexperienced ones with a couple thousand bucks to spend on a bike who are drawn to cannondale simply for the reasons you cite above--a lot of them just think because its cannondale, its better. competitively, you cant put felt in that kind of category, sorry. as great as cannondale, and its history might be, my point is looking at the situation objectively, and in a rapidly evolving and competitive marketplace, screaming yeah its better just because isnt always the best way to make an informed purchasing decision. comparing the felt 75 to the caad nine or caad ten (which blockheaded cannondale owners wouldnt do, why? duh, cause cannondale is just better oof) isnt hurbris--its one way of looking at competitive product segments that yields an interesting and potentially differential result.
> 
> an intelligent response might consider the historical debate about carbon stays and the 6000 and 7000 aluminum, which, to some extent, has taken place at other times on this site...for me, it continues to be an interesting and germane discussion. oh and btw the new 75 will have the bb30 (i thought i said that), and cannondale, at least to my knowledge, is in fact phasing out the six series in favor of the new caads. bottom line is you can make the best bike in the world, but if isnt COST COMPETITIVE, your product, like any other product, is gonna be scrutinized in the competitve context of market economy. there is no vacuum in which its just better because.i stick by what i say. if you're gonna defend cannondale, i'm sure they themselves would appreciate something other than the ad hoc (see the duh defense above) deliberations you and your friend seem to offer up here.


I have no idea where you get your info and maybe Im the only one having trouble articulating what you said, but I feel like I trolled you pretty good.


----------



## easyridernyc

no you're just a supersix guy who loves his bike, i get that. it does look sweet

you love your cannondale as much as i love my felt.

they're still gonna can the six though. the super i dont know


----------



## easyridernyc

no you're just a supersix guy who loves his bike, i get that. it does look sweet

you love your cannondale as much as i love my felt. i wouldn't compare a 75 (oof) to a supersix, i am not retarded ha ha

they're still gonna can the six though. the super? huh?


----------



## T K

But his dad could beat up your dad!


----------



## zamboni

Easyridernyc,

How many Giro and TDF stages had Felt won?


----------



## ph0enix

easyridernyc said:


> they're still gonna can the six though. the super i dont know


Obviously they won't can the Supersix and it doesn't make sense for them to can the Six either. They need an entry level carbon bike because that's what the market wants and the Synapse is not it. I don't know where you got that info but it wouldn't be a wise business decision for them to stop producing and selling the Six unless they're going to come out with another entry level carbon frame.


----------



## skaruda_23

cryoplasm said:


> LOL, what is he talking about.
> 
> What a concentration of Internet crap here. Shouldn't you cyclists be outdoors??


Seriously. What is all this ridiculous incoherent babbling?


----------



## easyridernyc

zamboni

u got me


----------



## BadBoyNY

easyridernyc said:


> zamboni
> 
> u got me


Easy, I 'm not sure about TdF, several stage winners at least ,but Cannondale have supplied the bikes for FIVE Giro overall winners, I am speculating that Felt haven't.

BTW for all the Alu vs Carbon arguments, I rode the CAAD 10 at Park City and it handled pretty sweetly , ride wise I don't know how it compared to the SuperX but I was able to lift the SuperX - sans pedals - on my index finger.


----------



## aengbretson

zamboni said:


> Easyridernyc,
> 
> How many Giro and TDF stages had Felt won?


By that logic we should all buy from Scott. Just saying that pro tour wins is not a great measure of a bike. I'm willing to bet Cav would have his 16 TdF stage victories no matter whose bike was underneath him.

But interesting point about 6000 vs. 7000 Al. Machinability, weldability, elongation, tensile strength, and hardness are all a little bit different. Then throw some Scandium into the mix and we could debate all day about which alloy is the best. However, I'm willing to bet that tube shape and wall thickness have a lot more to do with how a frame rides than the grade of alloy. I also think that the CAAD10 is sexy with a super/system six-ish shape.


----------



## easyridernyc

yeah...to me its interesting to compare the felt 75 (my bike) to the cannondale nine

1. 6000 v 7000
2. all alu construction vs alu frame and carbon fork, post, and stays
3. shimano shyt wheels vs mavic rims
4. cannondale tradition of great alu bikes vs felt brains and experience

does the all alu construction/6000 trump the 7000? i kinda doubt it. what can i say, i like my felt. for the same bread the caad nine guy lays out, i get

1. primo carbon fork, post, and stays. they make me  
2. repeat, _custom _butts
3. a compact 105


imo, more features, same bread. better bike. might be different if we were talking a second rate manufacturer here. but we're not. felt rocks. i am gonna look again for '011..but from what i heard, the 75 is getting some nice upgrades, including a new footprint and color scheme. gonna be sweet....


----------



## zamboni

aengbretson said:


> By that logic we should all buy from Scott. Just saying that pro tour wins is not a great measure of a bike. I'm willing to bet Cav would have his 16 TdF stage victories no matter whose bike was underneath him.
> 
> But interesting point about 6000 vs. 7000 Al. Machinability, weldability, elongation, tensile strength, and hardness are all a little bit different. Then throw some Scandium into the mix and we could debate all day about which alloy is the best. However, I'm willing to bet that tube shape and wall thickness have a lot more to do with how a frame rides than the grade of alloy. I also think that the CAAD10 is sexy with a super/system six-ish shape.


Funny that you mentioned we should all buy Scott bike since the founder of Cannondale is now with Scott after he was let go by Cannondale few years back.


----------



## Devastator

easyridernyc said:


> yeah that's what i meant 2100 for a ten, why not just get a six, with the same _*footprint no way the aluminum frame is gonna outperform the carbon. right*_? unless you're talking groupsets, the 105 on the 09 six vs ultegra on the '11 10, both models around 2100.





easyridernyc said:


> i dont get it.
> 
> _*if carbon is supposed to be the better material, and costs more and performs better,
> how can the aluminum bike, the 011 caad 10, similarly spec'd, be in the same class?*_ which kinda begs the next question. if the aluminum bike is that competitive...why use carbon at all?





easyridernyc said:


> high quality aluminum over carbon, yeah, definitely. steel, that's kinda pushin it





easyridernyc said:


> _*i too have been committed to aluminum, at first for the weight and cost advantage*_, but after adding stays to the fork of my second aluminum frame, a lot had to do with performance, too. i dont race or anything





easyridernyc said:


> yeah but my point is
> 
> _*why the lower cost carbon alternative, at all? your logic seems a little funny,*_ yeah carbon is great, but not great enough its too heavy and doesnt make a difference. if the alu is better quality, why bother with the carbon in the production line at all-- is that why the six is being phased out now, and what does that scenario imply, if anything, for the rest of the carbon line, excepting, of course, they very top of the line hi mod


In the words of easy "i dont get it."



easyridernyc said:


> yeah...to me its interesting to compare the felt 75 (my bike) to the cannondale nine
> 
> 1. 6000 v 7000
> 2. all alu construction vs alu frame and carbon fork, post, and stays
> 3. shimano shyt wheels vs mavic rims
> 4. cannondale tradition of great alu bikes vs felt brains and experience
> 
> does the all alu construction/6000 trump the 7000? i kinda doubt it. what can i say, i like my felt. for the same bread the caad nine guy lays out, i get
> 
> 1. primo carbon fork, post, and stays. they make me
> 2. repeat, _custom _butts
> 3. a compact 105
> 
> 
> imo, more features, same bread. better bike. might be different if we were talking a second rate manufacturer here. but we're not. felt rocks. i am gonna look again for '011..but from what i heard, the 75 is getting some nice upgrades, including a new footprint and color scheme. gonna be sweet....


----------



## easyridernyc

Devastator said:


> In the words of easy "i dont get it."



point being?


----------



## easyridernyc

i wonder why....seriously


----------



## aengbretson

zamboni said:


> Funny that you mentioned we should all buy Scott bike since the founder of Cannondale is now with Scott after he was let go by Cannondale few years back.


Haha very true  Clearly Scott have done well for themselves. However, I'm not really drawn to an Addict like I was to my SystemSix. Who knows why?



easyridernyc said:


> yeah...to me its interesting to compare the felt 75 (my bike) to the cannondale nine
> 
> 1. 6000 v 7000
> 2. all alu construction vs alu frame and carbon fork, post, and stays
> 3. shimano shyt wheels vs mavic rims
> 4. cannondale tradition of great alu bikes vs felt brains and experience
> 
> does the all alu construction/6000 trump the 7000? i kinda doubt it. what can i say, i like my felt. for the same bread the caad nine guy lays out, i get
> 
> 1. primo carbon fork, post, and stays. they make me
> 2. repeat, _custom _butts
> 3. a compact 105
> 
> 
> imo, more features, same bread. better bike. might be different if we were talking a second rate manufacturer here. but we're not. felt rocks. i am gonna look again for '011..but from what i heard, the 75 is getting some nice upgrades, including a new footprint and color scheme. gonna be sweet....


You keep talking about "all aluminum construction" on the C'dale, but then go on to talk about carbon forks and posts. The caads have that too, you know... Also, some people like/want compact cranks. It might not be easy starting out on a standard, but after a few months riding 53/39 last summer I was actually looking for an 11-23 to replace my 12-25 cassette. I'm not disrespecting Felt as a manufacturer or the 75 as a bike, but you're on about things that aren't really significant (except maybe the butting, but then again Cannondale uses butted tubes as well).


----------



## easyridernyc

yeah..

a lot of guys like compact. the 75 has one. the caad nine doesnt. and b, 

the 75 has carbon stays. the caad nine and ten dont.so pound for pound, objectively, and at face value, the 75 would appear to have better specs. which should make it, arguably, 

a better bike. 

if not, then you kinda have to contemplate making an argument that specs dont matter, or that lesser specs make a better bike. which is kinda, well, kinda stupid.

as far as the frame "debate" is concerned, by most accounts, it has been going on for quite some time, i didnt start it. and it is germane in the sense that many of the components involved here are included on the higher end of cannondale's product line. so it kinda matters. _how_ components are packaged can make all the difference in getting the best value for your bicycle purchasing dollar...

caad owners might say that stays make no difference, which to me is, well, kinda wacky. if carbon stays wouldnt make a difference because the caad nine aluminum is "better" frame material generally than carbon, what reason would anyone have to prefer carbon over aluminum at all? to me, that logic seems kinda counterintutive. in an objective sense, the question simply suggests a close look at the spec and price mix on cannodale's carbon line in comparison to other bikes similarly situated. if i were a cannondale owner who just shelled out two, three, or four thousand bucks for a new bike, carbon, aluminum, whatever, trust me, 

i would want to know the difference. _before _i making a purchasing decision. but, hey, that's just me...


----------



## intence

I believe that Cannondale felt the use of their curved aluminum stays in the rear was a better design than using carbon "just because".

See the Six13 and SystemSix both used carbon, but not in the stays. It was only after the Dorel buyout and frame-making went to asia did they reverse their thinking and created the Six. All their "great" race makes (except for the SuperSix which is ALL carbon) used Alu stays.


----------



## easyridernyc

well said


----------



## Bad Ronald

intence said:


> It was only after the Dorel buyout and frame-making went to asia did they reverse their thinking and created the Six.


Just to be clear the buyout did not affect any design. The dorel management are not bike engineers so they have no clue what is going to be better. The carbon stays was an experiment by the road product manager to see what is possible as far as comfort is concerned and also a low cost option for the guy like easy rider that automatically see carbon as better. It was obvious as soon as it hit production that the CAAD9 was a better bike. Hence the Six barely lasting 1 year on the market.


----------



## aengbretson

From strictly a frame perspective, the all-aluminum rear end of my system six is no harsher than the mid-end all-carbon frame I used to have. I'm not sold on carbon seat stays as being that significant relative to the shape, wall thickness, and insertion points of said tubes. I've heard (read: read on teh interwebs) that a "true wishbone" (two stays join around the area of the rear brake and proceed as one up to the TT/ST junction) transmits more vibrations than two separate ones that join at the lateral extremes of the same junction.

And now Cannondale is going with SAVE chainstays in an attempt to provide a good ride. I'd be interested to hear the science behind it. Maybe I should do some FEA on my own? It would be good practice...


----------



## skaruda_23

aengbretson said:


> Maybe I should do some FEA on my own? It would be good practice...


I'd be very interested in seeing FEA done on this and the results...


----------



## easyridernyc

Bad Ronald said:


> Just to be clear the buyout did not affect any design. The dorel management are not bike engineers so they have no clue what is going to be better. The carbon stays was an experiment by the road product manager to see what is possible as far as comfort is concerned and also a low cost option for the guy like easy rider that automatically see carbon as better. It was obvious as soon as it hit production that the CAAD9 was a better bike. Hence the Six barely lasting 1 year on the market.



didnt say that carbon was automatically "better." just commenting on the lack of an apparent rationale for the relative uses of aluminum and carbon fiber in marketing mix. as i mentioned above, its not simply about the frame materials, the specs can be just as, if not more important to the comparative value, both between a company's own bikes, as well as in relation to the products marketed and sold by the competition. 

the idea of unified design though, makes a lot of sense, especially by a company that's only been making the damn things since the beginning of bicycle time. but when you look at the sheer number of products in cannondale's various lines, and how they have evolved, and how they continue to change from year to year, clearly, the aluminum/carbon issue remains a prescient factor.

its interesting, though, and i will admit i've only heard this anecdotally, that cannondale may be dumping the six (not supersix) altogether, in favor primarily for the upgrades in the (aluminum) ten series. which would kinda reaffirm something of a commitment to aluminum rather than carbon. for the elite racing population, i am sure there is little doubt about the hi mod construction, but i might wager that cannondale's bread and butter, the bulk of their retail revenue, comes from the recreational or aspriing racer. who digs cannon aluminum.


----------



## yules

Actually, from an engineer's point of view, using carbon for the seat stays has very little impact on stiffness - The chain stay/ BB area is more important.

Companies put carbon on the seat stays for just 1 reason - Marketing.


----------



## Devastator

easyridernyc said:


> yeah..
> 
> a lot of guys like compact. the 75 has one. the caad nine doesnt. and b,
> 
> *the 75 has carbon stays. the caad nine and ten dont.so pound for pound, objectively, and at face value, the 75 would appear to have better specs. which should make it, arguably,*
> 
> a better bike.
> 
> if not, then you kinda have to contemplate making an argument that specs dont matter, or that lesser specs make a better bike. which is kinda, well, kinda stupid.
> 
> as far as the frame "debate" is concerned, by most accounts, it has been going on for quite some time, i didnt start it. and it is germane in the sense that many of the components involved here are included on the higher end of cannondale's product line. so it kinda matters. _how_ components are packaged can make all the difference in getting the best value for your bicycle purchasing dollar...
> 
> caad owners might say that stays make no difference, which to me would is, well, kinda wacky. if carbon stays wouldnt make a difference because the caad nine aluminum is "better" frame material generally than carbon, what reason would anyone have to prefer carbon over aluminum at all? *to me, that logic seems kinda counterintutive. in an objective sense*, the question simply suggests a close look at the spec and price mix on cannodale's carbon line in comparison to other bikes similarly situated. if i were a cannondale owner who just shelled out two, three, or four thousand bucks for a new bike, carbon, aluminum, whatever, trust me,
> 
> i would want to know the difference. _before _i making a purchasing decision. but, hey, that's just me...


Youve highlighted your own fault, you are not at all lookin objectively at the issue. You are focused on the things that dont matter, pretty much stat whoring. Your primary concern seems to be specs, ride and price. As far as I can tell the attribute that make the CAAD good are of no concern to you.


----------



## cryoplasm

This topic has gone disproportionately OT.

Drop it!


----------



## Devastator

cryoplasm said:


> This topic has gone disproportionately OT.
> 
> Drop it!


Not gona lie, I dont have anything better to do while Im work, wait dont have anything more interesting to do.


----------



## aengbretson

skaruda_23 said:


> I'd be very interested in seeing FEA done on this and the results...


The more I look at it, the harder it actually is. The real difficulty would be making an accurate model. Short of going back to my uni's lab (to which I no longer have access, thanks to being done) and using their 3D scanner it would be tough to get a real good model of the intricate contours of the frame. Then comes the problem of knowing internal structures such as butting. Only then would FEA really be accurate. Oh, and my employer probably wouldn't be impressed that I'm spending valuable time working on FEA that isn't related to my current project...

On a related note, does anybody have access to Cannondale's library of solid models? 

But yeah I'm really interested to see what people think about going from hourglass seatstays and rounded chainstays on the caad9 to straight seatstays and SAVE chainstays on the caad10. But still, the new one still looks like a proper racing machine and is specced like one too. I will probably pick one up as a second bike and to keep my system six company...


----------



## easyridernyc

dude--

besides spec, ride, and price

wtf else IS there?


----------



## easyridernyc

dude--

besides spec, ride, and price 

WTF else is there, u jackass?


----------



## 88 rex

easyridernyc said:


> dude--
> 
> besides spec, ride, and price
> 
> wtf else IS there?



Looks


----------



## yules

88 rex said:


> Looks


----------



## Devastator

easyridernyc said:


> dude--
> 
> besides spec, ride, and price
> 
> WTF else is there, u jackass?



Stiffness, handling, fit, weight. Let me rephrase you are speculating purely on paper not on actual ride. 

Did I mention looks? :smilewinkgrin:


----------



## easyridernyc

looks i'll give you. that silver, blue, red, and now white...

sexy beast


----------



## intence

easyridernyc said:


> didnt say that carbon was automatically "better." just commenting on the lack of an apparent rationale for the relative uses of aluminum and carbon fiber in marketing mix. as i mentioned above, its not simply about the frame materials, the specs can be just as, if not more important to the comparative value, both between a company's own bikes, as well as in relation to the products marketed and sold by the competition.
> 
> the idea of unified design though, makes a lot of sense, especially by a company that's only been making the damn things since the beginning of bicycle time. but when you look at the sheer number of products in cannondale's various lines, and how they have evolved, and how they continue to change from year to year, clearly, the aluminum/carbon issue remains a prescient factor.
> 
> its interesting, though, and i will admit i've only heard this anecdotally, that cannondale may be dumping the six (not supersix) altogether, in favor primarily for the upgrades in the (aluminum) ten series. which would kinda reaffirm something of a commitment to aluminum rather than carbon. for the elite racing population, i am sure there is little doubt about the hi mod construction, but i might wager that cannondale's bread and butter, the bulk of their retail revenue, comes from the recreational or aspriing racer. who digs cannon aluminum.


I seriously think it's all coming down to cost. While others have mentioned that Dorel didn't intefere with design, I don't buy it. When you have your own factory you can do whatever you want, make some space in the corner and try bonding carbon tubes to alu? Sure why not, use alu stays on a carbon bike, sure let's try it.

What we're seeing is Cannondale moving away from unique designs that they did in-house, and moving towards standardized options. All alu frame, there's a company in Asia that can build that for you cheaply. All carbon, same thing. You want carbon stays with alu front? Sure, lots of factories do that. You want to do it the other way around, alu stays with carbon? I don't know of any other bikes built that way, and presumably getting a factory to do it might have been costly or difficult. IMO that was the reason for the Six. There was nothing special about it, as we've seen carbon stays for years now.

IMO cost has been the driving motivator, and innovation has been what's lost. How is Cannondale's lineup different from anyone else's at this point? Full carbon, full aluminum. It was the projects such as the Six13, SystemSix and others that had them building frames that were outside of the box. Now that everything is coming from one of the standard factories, we can expect decent frames due to geometry, but I wouldn't expect anything new or innovative to show up, as those factories simply aren't equipped for it.

It was for this reason that I read Cervelo was moving some production back in-house, since they could experiment and try new things without having to rely on a third-party factory to implement it.


----------



## penn_rider

Well,, I feel that the Alu is still available from Cannondale because of you die hard fans,, and the many that want to race something that they can afford to replace. It was not long ago that they poured all money and energy into carbon and left the great caad with a kit that you all complained about, begged for more, and or wanted a frame only option. 

Each year they roll the model out with better components. Now it is made overseas and offers top of the line parts. I feel they have listened to you.. In the scope of things their caad is a winner, however, the move of production may be its downfall. It is no longer the special gem of an historic bike co. It now has more competition, maybe not in pure performance, but it now sits almost even with the other companies selling Alu frames in the consumers mindset.


----------



## 88 rex

penn_rider said:


> In the scope of things their caad is a winner, however, the move of production may be its downfall. It is no longer the special gem of an historic bike co. It now has more competition, maybe not in pure performance, but it now sits almost even with the other companies selling Alu frames in the consumers mindset.


I challenge you to find another aluminum RACE frame that is as light as the CAAD10, has BB30, a tapered headtube, lightweight carbon fork, lightweight SRAM spec'd, easily attained from many LBS's, great crash replacement program, Lifetime warranty, and looks pretty darn cool........oh and sell it to me for $1800 (and that's if you aren't fortunate enough to get a discount). Good luck!!


IF the CAAD 9 had remained unchanged for 2011, then I might agree that sales could potentially be hurt with same pricing as 2010 and overseas production.


----------



## easyridernyc

how bout the 2011 felt 75? from felt _*racing*_

the bb30, check. primo felt parts, including fork, post, stays and steerer (and that carbon steerer, man is it sweet), check. a newly designed and upgraded frameset (7005 superlite aluminum, i think basically the same weight and properties of 6000 aluminum/scandium mix used on the caad 10, certainly competitive with it.), check. custom butts, check. add the new compact 105, which a lot of people think is pretty close to the "old" ultegra and that, to be generous, _at least _rivals sram rival, and,,,

check. no, make that check _please_. yeah, i see an 1800, oops make that a 1600 dollar bike that will give the ten a run for its money. the new color scheme on the 75 is gonna be hella sweet too, not for nothing. i am really looking forward to it.

not _quite_ out yet...but soon enough. and pound for pound the competitive race bike you may be looking for.


----------



## 88 rex

easyridernyc said:


> how bout the 2011 felt 75? from felt _*racing*_
> 
> the bb30, check. primo felt parts, including fork, post, stays and steerer (and that carbon steerer, man is it sweet), check. a newly designed and upgraded frameset (7005 superlite aluminum, i think basically the same weight and properties of 6000 aluminum/scandium mix used on the caad 10, certainly competitive with it.), check. custom butts, check. add the new compact 105, which a lot of people think is pretty close to the "old" ultegra and that, to be generous, _at least _rivals sram rival, and,,,
> 
> check. no, make that check _please_. yeah, i see an 1800, oops make that a 1600 dollar bike that will give the ten a run for its money. the new color scheme on the 75 is gonna be hella sweet too, not for nothing. i am really looking forward to it.
> 
> not _quite_ out yet...but soon enough. and pound for pound the competitive race bike you may be looking for.


1) No tapered headtube...........right?
2) Rival vs. 105......performance-wise: personal preference.....weight: Rival>>>>105
Ultegra shifts the same as 105, just a hair lighter. Not a big deal.

3) Felt warranty? Crash replacement? Not too many dealers in my particular area. No thanks.

4) Felts headtubes are too long on their current aluminum offering. I imagine it will be the same on the newer stuff. 
5) CAAD10 105 spec'd is still cheaper........and lighter.

I think the this Felt you speak of would make a great competitor for the new CAAD8.......although the CAAD8 would still be cheaper


----------



## easyridernyc

88 rex said:


> 1) No tapered headtube...........right?
> 2) Rival vs. 105......performance-wise: personal preference.....weight: Rival>>>>105
> Ultegra shifts the same as 105, just a hair lighter. Not a big deal.
> 
> 3) Felt warranty? Crash replacement? Not too many dealers in my particular area. No thanks.
> 
> 4) Felts headtubes are too long on their current aluminum offering. I imagine it will be the same on the newer stuff.
> 5) CAAD10 105 spec'd is still cheaper........and lighter.
> 
> I think the this Felt you speak of would make a great competitor for the new CAAD8.......although the CAAD8 would still be cheaper



1. tapered headtube = so what.
2. rival vs 105, personal preference ok, but that's probably for a standard 105. the new compact105 is more like an ultegra than anything else. maybe the old 105 less of a rival, but the new compact is better. much. i do wonder, though if it'll be all sram on all tens. there you might have a point to argue...
3. i kinda want to laugh at the idea of a lifetime replacement for ANY aluminum bike. i'll believe THAT when i see it. if they offer it, great, but i've never seen a lifetime warranty like that for an aluminum bike, probably more limited than anything else
4.long head tube schmlong head tube, proof is in the pudding. the carbon steerers on felt bikes make a momentous difference when it comes to handling. i concede though that this difference can only be borne out through experience and a test ride. and no, 
5) the 011 ten wont necessarily be "cheaper," of course that depends on which version (not to mention caad 8 caad nine blah blah) you choose, but i bet the 11 75 will still be less expensive than the "generic" ten with standard 105 or rival group. why? dont get me started on cannondale's "made in the usa" bullshyt. the difference in weight will largely be in the wheelset, where also, i may be willing to concede the one advantage the ten may have over the 75 in terms of specs, that the rs 80's as configured trump the mavic rims and felt hub...

as i said earlier, cannondale markets so many different versions of so many bikes---four of the ten at last count, that at a certain point comparisons just get to be kinda tedious. as a marketing strategy, it kinda makes you wonder, a, how flexible cannondalge really is when it comes to the interests and concerns of its customers, and b, what the priorities are in managing component supply and engineering and design expertise to the presenting demands of the emerging marketplace. to be honest, i am not sold....


----------



## penn_rider

88 rex said:


> I challenge you to find another aluminum RACE frame that is as light as the CAAD10, has BB30, a tapered headtube, lightweight carbon fork, lightweight SRAM spec'd, easily attained from many LBS's, great crash replacement program, Lifetime warranty, and looks pretty darn cool........oh and sell it to me for $1800 (and that's if you aren't fortunate enough to get a discount). Good luck!!
> 
> 
> IF the CAAD 9 had remained unchanged for 2011, then I might agree that sales could potentially be hurt with same pricing as 2010 and overseas production.



You have a point with the BB30, but other than that what is so magical now about the cadd 10? I am not a Cdale hater, but when it comes down to buying an Asian built Alu bike, price is most definitely in play, and brand loyalty may not be as important of a factor. How many caad 9 owners touted "Made in the USA" as big factor in their choice? I read plenty of those. Another comment was the amazing weld quality. Now even that has been brought into question.
You have one yelling Felt as an alternative,, others will look at Neuvation or the like to gain more in the component mix. An F100 with Sram Red is just $1895. How much better could the caad 10 be? Almost all of the experts here have said that a difference like that will be minimal,, add too that, many have said it is the rider and not the entirely the bike that matters. So when you begin to split hairs with 100 grams, tapered head tube, or BB30, would it actually make a noticeable difference?


----------



## 88 rex

easyridernyc said:


> 1. tapered headtube = so what.


Stiffer and stronger = good



easyridernyc said:


> 2. rival vs 105, personal preference ok, but that's probably for a standard 105. the new compact105 is more like an ultegra than anything else. maybe the old 105 less of a rival, but the new compact is better. much. i do wonder, though if it'll be all sram on all tens. there you might have a point to argue...


I have extremely limited first hand experience with the new compact stuff, but from what I gather and noticed, same old Shimano shifting. Lost a few grams, but still much heavier than Rival. I never had a problem with the shifting of the older stuff though.



easyridernyc said:


> 3. i kinda want to laugh at the idea of a lifetime replacement for ANY aluminum bike. i'll believe THAT when i see it. if they offer it, great, but i've never seen a lifetime warranty like that for an aluminum bike, probably more limited than anything else


FRAMES: (frame, fork structure, swing arm): Cannondale frames (except frames for Freeride, and Dirt Jumping bikes, see below) are warranted by Cannondale Bicycle Corporation, 16 Trowbridge Drive, Bethel, CT 06801 against manufacturing defects in materials and/or workmanship for the lifetime of the original owner.



easyridernyc said:


> 4.long head tube schmlong head tube, proof is in the pudding. the carbon steerers on felt bikes make a momentous difference when it comes to handling. i concede though that this difference can only be borne out through experience and a test ride.


My reference to headtube length is in regards to rider position, not strength. The CAAD9/10 puts the rider in a more aggressive racing position. Longer headtubes mean you have to either size down, neg rise stems, or they just might work for some people.



> and no,
> 5) the 011 ten wont necessarily be "cheaper," of course that depends on which version (not to mention caad 8 caad nine blah blah) you choose, but i bet the 11 75 will still be less expensive than the "generic" ten with standard 105 or rival group. why? dont get me started on cannondale's "made in the usa" bullshyt. the difference in weight will largely be in the wheelset, where also, i may be willing to concede the one advantage the ten may have over the 75 in terms of specs, that the rs 80's as configured trump the mavic rims and felt hub...


2009 CAAD 9-4 = $1800
2010 CADD10 (rival) = $1800

CAAD8 has a slightly different geometry. More on par with the felt you are talking about. It actually matches up quite well with the felt you mention.


> as i said earlier, cannondale markets so many different versions of so many bikes---four of the ten at last count, that at a certain point comparisons just get to be kinda tedious. as a marketing strategy, it kinda makes you wonder, a, how flexible cannondalge really is when it comes to the interests and concerns of its customers, and b, what the priorities are in managing component supply and engineering and design expertise to the presenting demands of the emerging marketplace. to be honest, i am not sold....


Don't know what to tell you. The marketing seems to be working well since the CAAD9's sold so well at all spec levels. You think there are a lot of CAAD9's you should see the Synapse line-up!!


----------



## T K

It must be real slow and boring over there at the Felt section. Why else would so much time be spent slumming over here in the Dale hood?
What was that? I think I hear your mom calling. Better go back home.
And take that crappy bike with you!


----------



## easyridernyc

T K said:


> It must be real slow and boring over there at the Felt section. Why else would so much time be spent slumming over here in the Dale hood?
> What was that? I think I hear your mom calling. Better go back home.
> And take that crappy bike with you!



piggy. 

back. again


----------



## easyridernyc

88 rex said:


> Stiffer and stronger = good
> 
> 
> I have extremely limited first hand experience with the new compact stuff, but from what I gather and noticed, same old Shimano shifting. Lost a few grams, but still much heavier than Rival. I never had a problem with the shifting of the older stuff though.
> 
> 
> 
> FRAMES: (frame, fork structure, swing arm): Cannondale frames (except frames for Freeride, and Dirt Jumping bikes, see below) are warranted by Cannondale Bicycle Corporation, 16 Trowbridge Drive, Bethel, CT 06801 against manufacturing defects in materials and/or workmanship for the lifetime of the original owner.
> 
> 
> 
> My reference to headtube length is in regards to rider position, not strength. The CAAD9/10 puts the rider in a more aggressive racing position. Longer headtubes mean you have to either size down, neg rise stems, or they just might work for some people.
> 
> 
> 
> 2009 CAAD 9-4 = $1800
> 2010 CADD10 (rival) = $1800
> 
> CAAD8 has a slightly different geometry. More on par with the felt you are talking about. It actually matches up quite well with the felt you mention.
> 
> 
> Don't know what to tell you. The marketing seems to be working well since the CAAD9's sold so well at all spec levels. You think there are a lot of CAAD9's you should see the Synapse line-up!!


yeah penn has a point a bit hair splitty

i have seen some synapse lately the 010's are moving fast at a discount, supersix is rocking too...dude i'm out thanks for the indulgence on the dale board

should be nice out here in the east enjoy the weekend catch up to you maybe next week 

b cool 

dood. laterz


----------



## cryoplasm




----------



## Nimitz

holy hotness!

Chad


----------



## krtassoc

If you look closely at the welds...they look immaculate!


----------



## aengbretson

*DROOL*

Ugh seeing that anodized caad10, my system six may get a stable-mate soon... But I wanted to buy a cross bike first!


----------



## AJL

Wow, sharp looking bike - and nice kit too.


----------



## krtassoc

https://dark44.up.seesaa.net/PICTURE/10BRANDCAMP3.jpg


----------



## krtassoc

http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_pvVBYlacTFI/TF3egwH2_9I/AAAAAAAAEPs/SqnOZP5W60Y/s1600/Pesi+ritagliato.jpg


----------



## Devastator

krtassoc said:


> https://dark44.up.seesaa.net/PICTURE/10BRANDCAMP3.jpg


Thats a cool looking scheme on that CAAD.


----------



## krtassoc

http://www.cannondale-nakameguro.com/web/index.php?UID=1281409998


----------



## zsir

krtassoc said:


> http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_pvVBYlacTFI/TF3egwH2_9I/AAAAAAAAEPs/SqnOZP5W60Y/s1600/Pesi+ritagliato.jpg



hmmmm....dura ace is lighter than sram red


----------



## Nimitz

zsir said:


> hmmmm....dura ace is lighter than sram red


how do you figure?

they don't have a SRAM red equipped caad10 in that chart?

Chad


----------



## krtassoc

That's a Euro-sourced chart...the US catalog for 2011 shows a Rival/Force Caad 10...and a Rival/Force Super Six, too!


----------



## AJL

krtassoc said:


> That's a Euro-sourced chart...the US catalog for 2011 shows a Rival/Force Caad 10...and a Rival/Force Super Six, too!


For the Caad 10-1 ?


----------



## CdaleNut

the CAAD 10-1 is full Dura-Ace


----------



## tindrum

wot. any idea if that fluoro-green and black is a euro color or coming to the states?


----------



## AJL

CdaleNut said:


> the CAAD 10-1 is full Dura-Ace


THX! Which one will have the Rival/Force group? Do you know what the MSRP will be (mabye this has already been posted and I forgot)?


----------



## CdaleNut

tindrum said:


> wot. any idea if that fluoro-green and black is a euro color or coming to the states?



yes that awful IMHO color is coming to the states


----------



## CdaleNut

i dont recall the exact prices of all of them, but i do remember that all the prices were the same or close to last years. as far as the rival/force bike...............i think its the 10-4


----------



## tindrum

CdaleNut said:


> yes that awful IMHO color is coming to the states



ha. i'm not sure if i'd buy it, but i think it's pretty cool. black and pink ala the rapha/condor bikes would be even cooler though.


----------



## krtassoc

My LBS says: 2011 Caad 10-4 (Rival/Force mix) MSRP = $1,800. (Same as last year)

And, Super Six Rival/Force MSRP = $2,400
Shimano 105 MSRP = $2,000
Shimano Ultegra MSRP = $2,700


----------



## zsir

Nimitz said:


> how do you figure?
> 
> they don't have a SRAM red equipped caad10 in that chart?
> 
> Chad


I was looking at the hi mod weights....


----------



## Dan Gerous

zsir said:


> I was looking at the hi mod weights....


They're both listed at the same weight... but SRAM Red is lighter, the the heavier DA group is offset by lighter wheels, lighter cranks, lighter bars and seatpost on the SuperSix DA compared to the Red model....


----------



## AJL

krtassoc said:


> My LBS says: 2011 Caad 10-4 (Rival/Force mix) MSRP = $1,800. (Same as last year)
> 
> And, Super Six Rival/Force MSRP = $2,400
> Shimano 105 MSRP = $2,000
> Shimano Ultegra MSRP = $2,700


Wow, what a huge diff between the Ultegra and Rival/Force! Thanks for the info.


----------



## CdaleNut

AJL said:


> Wow, what a huge diff between the Ultegra and Rival/Force! Thanks for the info.




is Ultegra really that much better then the Rival/Force ?


----------



## AJL

CdaleNut said:


> is Ultegra really that much better then the Rival/Force ?


$900 better - no!


----------



## easyridernyc

2000 for the rival 4? 

that sounds like more than last year, how much for the ten five with the 105 group?


----------



## Devastator

easyridernyc said:


> 2000 for the rival 4?
> 
> that sounds like more than last year, how much for the ten five with the 105 group?


Thank you dude, you made me smile on this shitty day.


----------



## easyridernyc

no worries, man, i know the shytty day feeling well

git your ride in

laterz


----------



## krtassoc

http://road.cc/category/image-galleries/bikes/cannondale-2011


----------



## Devastator

krtassoc said:


> http://road.cc/category/image-galleries/bikes/cannondale-2011


Uhhhh maybe Im seeing stuff its late cause im staving and cant sleep, but the seat stays on that 105 Super are different than my Super HM. There isnt the bridge part that says M himod. I guess Ive not seen a non hi mod up close though, but i thought they were all the same just diff carbon.


----------



## krtassoc

http://images.roadbike.de/sixcms/me...RB Eurobike 2010 Cannondale 2.jpg.1442429.jpg


----------



## krtassoc

For those (in another CAAD 10 Forum) who said that the welds looked bad:

https://grundtner.com/grundtner/wordpress/wp-content/uploads/2010/08/dsc_0002.jpg

They look pretty good to me!

https://grundtner.com/grundtner/wordpress/wp-content/uploads/2010/08/dsc_0001.jpg


----------



## wedge962005

CdaleNut said:


> the CAAD 10-1 is full Dura-Ace


Not quite, the cranks are bb30 so DA is not possible-FSA SL-K Light instead. The FD, chain, brakes and cassette are all Ultegra 6700. Essentially the only bits that are DA are the hoods and the RD. I still think that it is a great component mix.


----------



## zsir

wedge962005 said:


> Not quite, the cranks are bb30 so DA is not possible-FSA SL-K Light instead. The FD, chain, brakes and cassette are all Ultegra 6700. Essentially the only bits that are DA are the hoods and the RD. I still think that it is a great component mix.



they should just make it a sram red kit....


----------



## AvantDale

That would be awesome.

or just get the 10-4 and upgrade the shifters and RD to Red.


----------



## tranzformer

*CAAD10 frameset?*

Any words yet on the color of the frameset? Will we be getting the black w/ smoked graphics like the 10-1. Or something different?


----------



## skyliner1004

Question: Will there be a CAAD10 with SRAM Rivals? (Or Any SRAM?) In the USA.
I saw the brochure of the 2011 CD's in this thread and it doesn't show any CAAD10 w/ Rivals.


----------



## CdaleNut

skyliner1004 said:


> Question: Will there be a CAAD10 with SRAM Rivals? (Or Any SRAM?) In the USA.
> I saw the brochure of the 2011 CD's in this thread and it doesn't show any CAAD10 w/ Rivals.



yes there will be a SRAM Rival version of the CAAD 10. the catalog that you seen in this threat was the euro version of the catalog........................europe doesnt get the SRAM version


----------



## skyliner1004

CdaleNut said:


> yes there will be a SRAM Rival version of the CAAD 10. the catalog that you seen in this threat was the euro version of the catalog........................europe doesnt get the SRAM version


great, thanks. 

Does anyone know the complete specs of the CAAD10-4 (Rival)

Is this correct:
Shifters-Rival
FD-Rival
RD-Rival
Crankset-Force
BB-Force BB30
Brakes-Tektro?????
Wheels-????


----------



## krtassoc

Here's a Cannondale 2011catalog (Australia) that includes the Caad 10 Sram Rival/Force Mix: http://issuu.com/csgaustralia/docs/www.cannondale.com

Cool!


----------



## krtassoc

Here's a Cannondale 2011catalog (Australia) that includes the Caad 10 Sram Rival/Force Mix: http://issuu.com/csgaustralia/docs/www.cannondale.com

Cool!


----------



## krtassoc

Caad 10 Womens: http://www.rivalbikes.com.au/cannon...-bike.html?utm_source=getprice&utm_medium=cpc


----------



## RUV

*sick!*

The new bikes look awesome-- the SuperSix Rival (matte black) in particular!


----------



## skyliner1004

easyridernyc said:


> yeah...to me its interesting to compare the felt 75 (my bike) to the cannondale nine
> 
> 1. 6000 v 7000
> 2. all alu construction vs alu frame and carbon fork, post, and stays
> 3. shimano shyt wheels vs mavic rims
> 4. cannondale tradition of great alu bikes vs felt brains and experience
> 
> does the all alu construction/6000 trump the 7000? i kinda doubt it. what can i say, i like my felt. for the same bread the caad nine guy lays out, i get
> 
> 1. primo carbon fork, post, and stays. they make me
> 2. repeat, _custom _butts
> 3. a compact 105
> 
> 
> imo, more features, same bread. better bike. might be different if we were talking a second rate manufacturer here. but we're not. felt rocks. i am gonna look again for '011..but from what i heard, the 75 is getting some nice upgrades, including a new footprint and color scheme. gonna be sweet....


how much did you pay for your felt?

The felt F75 weighs 18.89 lbs. The CAAD9 4 weighs 17.08 lbs. The F75 costs $1500 and only has a 105 drivetrain. And has heavy as **** Mavic CXP22 wheels. Generic shimano cassette and crankset. Generic "felt" brakes also. Seems like its some mashup of random parts that felt used to cut corners everywhere. Oh, and you keep mentioning Compact, but both CAAD's have compact cranksets available. Theres nothing special about Shimano 105..

for $1475 i could've gotten a ~2lb drop in weight and better speced and better frame in the CAAD9 4


----------



## roscoe

skyliner1004 said:


> how much did you pay for your felt?
> 
> The felt F75 weighs 18.89 lbs. The CAAD9 4 weighs 17.06 lbs. The F75 costs $1500 and only has a 105 drivetrain. And has heavy as **** Mavic CXP22 wheels. Generic shimano cassette and crankset. Generic "felt" brakes also. Seems like its some mashup of random parts that felt used to cut corners everywhere. Oh, and you keep mentioning Compact, but both CAAD's have compact cranksets available. Theres nothing special about Shimano 105..
> 
> for $1475 i could've gotten a ~2lb drop in weight and better speced and better frame in the CAAD9 4


pretty precise weights you have there...........


----------



## skyliner1004

roscoe said:


> pretty precise weights you have there...........


Felt weight was from their website, Caad9 4 weight from bicycling.com


----------



## monofin

Any news about the CAAD10 Frameset? I would like to build it up with Chorus. To replace my 20 year old *3.0*


----------



## krtassoc

Eurobike Video: http://www.roadbike.de/videos/eurob...lken-zum-neuen-cannondale-caad10.451757.9.htm


----------



## krtassoc

More Eurobike Pics: http://www.bdc-forum.it/showthread.php?p=2422799


----------



## monofin

Is the CAAD10 Ultimate just a showpiece?


----------



## krtassoc

Caad10 Ultimate: http://twitpic.com/2kjy52/full


----------



## AceyMan

monofin said:


> Is the CAAD10 Ultimate just a showpiece?


Hmm. The pic from krtassoc looks like it was from a show -- so, it still may be a show piece.

We need a pic at a LBS to know for sure.

(I like the DTswiss wheelset on that one. And the Hollowgram SiSL cranks rox).

I want one.... maybe a trade up from my 2010 CAAD9, but only if the frame is like this one. I am not a fan of the color schemes I've seen in the sneek-peek catalogs (AUS) that we've seen so far.


----------



## wedge962005

Is there any way to get weights on the US models? I'm trying to figure out the weight on 58 cm models; looking between the top two CAAD10-1 and CAAD10-3.


----------



## easyridernyc

skyliner1004 said:


> how much did you pay for your felt?
> 
> The felt F75 weighs 18.89 lbs. The CAAD9 4 weighs 17.08 lbs. The F75 costs $1500 and only has a 105 drivetrain. And has heavy as **** Mavic CXP22 wheels. Generic shimano cassette and crankset. Generic "felt" brakes also. Seems like its some mashup of random parts that felt used to cut corners everywhere. Oh, and you keep mentioning Compact, but both CAAD's have compact cranksets available. Theres nothing special about Shimano 105..
> 
> for $1475 i could've gotten a ~2lb drop in weight and better speced and better frame in the CAAD9 4



sorry i didnt respond earlier...

paid about a g for my felt, got an insane deal, the 09 retailed for 1700 and the price didnt drop on those left for the next model year, so, yeah, i got lucky. i now have about ten thousand miles on her, and she hasnt skipped a beat. the weight you quote is about right. but the groupset isnt "only" a 105. i have an older 105 on my s works frame that does not shift like the 09 compact. the newer derailleur shifts more like ace, same footprint, only slightly "heavier" materials. yes, ace, that's how smooth, with the double click on the front rings. and yeah i mention compact cause it comes (came) standard on the 75. you want the new compact derailleur on the caad and guess what? you got it, you gotta pay more. otherwise make your way with a standard 105, which is what comes in the basic 10 5 package. nothin special about that. last time i looked it was 1800 for rival on the alloy frame. which means it is probably closer to 2,000 for the '011. up up up. that 1475 you quote is kinda wishful, prices on cannondale are NOT coming down. 

plus when you start to substitute like that, if if if, the comparisons stop making sense. compare a 10 4 or 5 with sram rival to a felt 75 with a standard compact 105 and guess what? you gotta pay more for the cannondale. in this case, up to 50% (or 35%, depending), a third or half again as much, which is certainly your prerogative. you want to spend more, be my guest, i hope you get all that you pay for by the time you make your way through the specifications lol. but this idea of "moshup" is kinda specious, the 7005 alu and custom butts on the 75 go head to head with the nine series allloy frame. and ask anyone who has a compact 105 on a tarmac, cervelo, ridley, whatever, you name the high end frame, and they will tell you the compact is rock f**ckin solid. imo your implication about sram efficacy over shimano is another argument for another day. 

the wheels also, they are on the heavy side, granted, but i swap out wheelsets for eastons anyway, the 90 sl's for the 75. the shimanos that come standard on cannondales alu bikes are just as shyt, the mavic on felt hubs spin better anyways. and i dont know where you get your weights from. 17 pounds for what size? i'm a grown man, i dont want a bike that's small enough to fit my sister lol i doubt that 17 applies to a 56 or 58 size frame. 

the new 75 has a sloped off tube, lost the carbon stays, lost the compact for a standard, and added the bb30. too bad, now you might have a down spec argument to compare to cannondale caad series. but for 09, pound for pound, felt 75 i dont think anyone really came close.


----------



## jinnjia

wedge962005 said:


> Is there any way to get weights on the US models? I'm trying to figure out the weight on 58 cm models; looking between the top two CAAD10-1 and CAAD10-3.


not sure if this helps or how accurate it is.

http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_pvVBYlacTFI/TF3egwH2_9I/AAAAAAAAEPs/SqnOZP5W60Y/s1600/Pesi+ritagliato.jpg


----------



## ping771

jinnjia said:


> not sure if this helps or how accurate it is.
> 
> http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_pvVBYlacTFI/TF3egwH2_9I/AAAAAAAAEPs/SqnOZP5W60Y/s1600/Pesi+ritagliato.jpg


Wow, never knew C-dale published weights--where in the catalog or website is that hidden? Maybe it's an interoffice memo put out by C-dale.

The super six with 105 is 17.3 lbs, heavier than a CAAD10 with Ultegra. So with pedals and 2cages, you're talking 18 lbs,. That said, the super six is an awesome platform for future upgrades, which is what I imagine people would be doing if they got the 105 group. Also, it's the darn wheels that also make it heavy.


----------



## neilcrumpton

Does anyone know the weights for the Caad10 4 and Synapse Alloy 5?


----------



## georgewerr

ping771 said:


> Wow, never knew C-dale published weights--where in the catalog or website is that hidden? Maybe it's an interoffice memo put out by C-dale.
> 
> The super six with 105 is 17.3 lbs, heavier than a CAAD10 with Ultegra. So with pedals and 2cages, you're talking 18 lbs,. That said, the super six is an awesome platform for future upgrades, which is what I imagine people would be doing if they got the 105 group. Also, it's the darn wheels that also make it heavy.



In 1993 when I bought my 3.0 R500 the weights where listed in there catalog but they are listed no more

George.


----------



## skyliner1004

neilcrumpton said:


> Does anyone know the weights for the Caad10 4 and Synapse Alloy 5?


caad10 4 is about 17lbs flat in a size 52 without pedals, cages or computer. 

synapse alloy? prob a 1 lb heavier due to the slightly heavier frame, but super heavy 105 groupset compared to rival


----------



## neilcrumpton

skyliner1004 said:


> caad10 4 is about 17lbs flat in a size 52 without pedals, cages or computer.
> 
> synapse alloy? prob a 1 lb heavier due to the slightly heavier frame, but super heavy 105 groupset compared to rival


Thanks - weight-wise, it sounds like the Synapse Alloy is on par with the Caad8, only with a more relaxed (performance) fit.


----------



## krtassoc

CAAD 10 weights (and other information): http://www.0510bike.cn/redirect.php?tid=2260&goto=lastpost


----------



## neilcrumpton

Do people think it's worth spending the extra $200 to get the 10-3 over the 10-4 if they are both the same weight? I'm looking for thoughts on whether the differences truly warrant the extra money (rim upgrade but brake downgrade)?


----------



## skyliner1004

neilcrumpton said:


> Do people think it's worth spending the extra $200 to get the 10-3 over the 10-4 if they are both the same weight? I'm looking for thoughts on whether the differences truly warrant the extra money (rim upgrade but brake downgrade)?


first you need to decide if you want shimano or sram shifting. the rest is easy. 
the shifting is very different.

if you dont care about the shifting then get the 4 since its cheaper and looks a bit cooler with carbon levers


----------



## krtassoc

Cycling News 'first' impression: http://www.cyclingnews.com/features/interbike-2010-first-ride-cannondale-caad10


----------



## Wicked2006

Just checked out a new CAAD 10 at my LBS! Pretty sexy bike. We weight and it came in at 17.0 w/out pedals. The top tube is thick and looks very sturdy. 

Also checked out the Synapse. Nice bike right there as well. The guy I talked to about the CAAD 10 said he rides the 9 and loves it. The only thing for me is I want CARBON! I'm done with alloy. Otherwise I'd be all over that CAAD 10 in a heartbeat. A lot of bike of the price.


----------



## easyridernyc

17 lbs is light. which group?

thanks for the info...011's looking good for c dale i think


----------



## Wicked2006

It was the CAAD10 3 Ultegra. Super light for alloy.


----------



## skyliner1004

so the caad10 4 Rival should be even lighter. hopefully touch the 16lb range?


----------



## Wicked2006

The caad10 4 Rival comes with SRAM Force cranks. It should be lighter. The wheel set might may make the difference. Shimano RS10 are on that Rival bike.


----------



## Wicked2006

Dan Gerous said:


> CAAD 10 Dura-Ace in black...
> 
> Top tube and downtube shapes are obvious changes. Also, both the CAAD 10 and SuperX carbon cross bikes both have tapered steerers.


That bike out the door is roughly near $3100. We discussed that too while I was there.


----------



## Wicked2006

I think I might get the SuperSix Rival with SRAM force cranks. I like the price tag.


----------



## skyliner1004

Wicked2006 said:


> I think I might get the SuperSix Rival with SRAM force cranks. I like the price tag.


yea that supersix w/ sram is a very good deal on last year's supersix frame which was $3000+

Sram Force Bb30 cranks are super sexy and the rival groupset is excellent all around also (if you like sram shifting)

$2400 for that SS-4 is the sweet spot!


----------



## Wicked2006

skyliner1004 said:


> yea that supersix w/ sram is a very good deal on last year's supersix frame which was $3000+
> 
> Sram Force Bb30 cranks are super sexy and the rival groupset is excellent all around also (if you like sram shifting)
> 
> $2400 for that SS-4 is the sweet spot!


I'm really liking this white and orange color. But the Jet Black looks stealth. I'll probably be ordering it next week sometime. I have two Cannondale mountain bikes already a Jekyll and Scalpel. Love them both.


----------



## ainsy

skyliner1004 said:


> yea that supersix w/ sram is a very good deal on last year's supersix frame which was $3000+
> 
> Sram Force Bb30 cranks are super sexy and the rival groupset is excellent all around also (if you like sram shifting)
> 
> $2400 for that SS-4 is the sweet spot!



Totally agree with this.

Thought I was sold on the CAAD10 (4 or 1 if I could stretch the budget) but it seems the SS offers better value.

Now leaning towards the SS 5 or 4. Only issue (in AUS) is the pricing difference between the 5 and 4. If you want the 4 you have to pay AUD $750 more than the heavier 105 version....but the black frame on the SS 4 is hot


----------



## Wicked2006

ainsy said:


> Totally agree with this.
> 
> Thought I was sold on the CAAD10 (4 or 1 if I could stretch the budget) but it seems the SS offers better value.
> 
> Now leaning towards the SS 5 or 4. Only issue (in AUS) is the pricing difference between the 5 and 4. If you want the 4 you have to pay AUD $750 more than the heavier 105 version....but the black frame on the SS 4 is hot


+1...I agree with you as well. The SS in jet black looks amazing. The more and more I look at the black I start liking it even more. The orange and white is different so that's why I like it. What color to pick out? 

My only con is the weight of the wheel set. That's about it!


----------



## skyliner1004

with the stock wheels you're probably looking at 17lbs flat. With an upgraded wheelset to something like $500 BWW Blackset race wheels you'd be looking at 16.5 lbs flat in sizes 52/54.


----------



## Wicked2006

Is it true the frame is only weighs 890 grams? If so, that's sick.


----------



## s2ktaxi

Wicked2006 said:


> Is it true the frame is only weighs 890 grams? If so, that's sick.


1150g according to the article.


----------



## Wicked2006

s2ktaxi said:


> 1150g according to the article.


That has to include both frame and fork. On the Cannondale website it says this. 

Where Engineering Becomes Art. Champion of the 2010 Giro d'Italia. Hero of the Tour of California. At just 890 grams, with unmatched stiffness-to-weight and an alive, communicative ride-feel, SuperSix is engineered to win.


----------



## Devastator

Wicked2006 said:


> That has to include both frame and fork. On the Cannondale website it says this.
> 
> Where Engineering Becomes Art. Champion of the 2010 Giro d'Italia. Hero of the Tour of California. At just 890 grams, with unmatched stiffness-to-weight and an alive, communicative ride-feel, SuperSix is engineered to win.



You understand that this thread is about the CAAD 10 not the Supersix? It clearly says 1150 in the article about the CAAD it weighs. Yes its true the Supersix HM frame weighs 890.


----------



## easyridernyc

what size, though?


----------



## Devastator

easyridernyc said:


> what size, though?


54 vk,hjhgjhglkhlkjkj


----------



## Wicked2006

Devastator said:


> You understand that this thread is about the CAAD 10 not the Supersix? It clearly says 1150 in the article about the CAAD it weighs. Yes its true the Supersix HM frame weighs 890.


If you read my previous post I did discuss my experience and that I had a chance to see the new 2011 CAAD 10. It's a nice looking bike for alloy. For the money you could go SS carbon.


----------



## Devastator

Wicked2006 said:


> If you read my previous post I did discuss my experience and that I had a chance to see the new 2011 CAAD 10. It's a nice looking bike for alloy. For the money you could go SS carbon.


Its confusing when you 2ktaxi says 1150 then you quopte him with 890. The weight diff of a CAAD and a Super will be minimal, and will prolly play almost no role in speed.


----------



## wedge962005

Just to add some more information. I just got back from a shop where I test rode a 58CM CAAD10 - 4 (Rival). With my Look Keo Max pedals on it and reflectors still on it the bike weighed 18.78 lbs, which makes a lot of sense when you look at the weights listed in the previous poster's link.

The bike rode well, the frame is very strong and yet didn't beat me up nearly as much as I expected. I can't think of a better Crit. bike. The addition of the BB30 and the re-shaping of the stays really set this bike apart from last year.


----------



## skyliner1004

wedge962005 said:


> Just to add some more information. I just got back from a shop where I test rode a 58CM CAAD10 - 4 (Rival). With my Look Keo Max pedals on it and reflectors still on it the bike weighed 18.78 lbs, which makes a lot of sense when you look at the weights listed in the previous poster's link.
> 
> The bike rode well, the frame is very strong and yet didn't beat me up nearly as much as I expected. I can't think of a better Crit. bike. The addition of the BB30 and the re-shaping of the stays really set this bike apart from last year.


last year's caad9 had BB30 in the 1/4/5.


----------



## easyridernyc

skyliner1004 said:


> last year's caad9 had BB30 in the 1/4/5.



good point. a 58 is gonna weigh more, in some cases, significantly more, than a 54. 18.8 is light enough and manageable. its the wheels, though, i think the eaton 70's would be a nice compliment to any caad10 frame up through the rival and 105 groups. yeah easton 70, zoooom...nice footprint, and cash wise that would make sense...


ultegra and force on the ten might be a different story, maybe the sram 80's or elite mavics, from what i understand the caad nine and ten frames accomodate the upgrades really well, but then it starts to cost more....


----------

