# Centaur compared to Ultegra



## knightev (Sep 22, 2011)

hey everyone,

looking at bikes... been reading up, of course... but, curious, as i have never experienced either, how does Campy Centaur compare to Shimano Ultegra?

i am looking at a Pinarello FP Quattro. one build has Centaur for 100 euro cheaper than the Ultegra build... opinions?

thanks!


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## JCavilia (Sep 12, 2005)

Generally comparable quality, but the Campy and Shimano lever systems work quite differently, and some people strongly prefer one over the other. If you haven't ridden both, you should before you make this decision. It wouldn't make sense to save 100 Euros but end up with a shifting system whose ergonomics bug you.


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## knightev (Sep 22, 2011)

very good point, about the ergonomics... which is also part of the problem. i live in paris, where no one lets you test-ride. :/ so, i can't really get a good feel for it.

right now, though, i do ride a specialized tricross with the entry of entry level shimano gruppo that has the thumb-levers, which i really like... not sure if that has anything at all in similarity to the campy stuff, but, there it is...


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## Peanya (Jun 12, 2008)

The hoods are shaped very differently. You don't need to test ride to see which one you prefer. Stand over the bike, and grip the bars at the hoods and below the hoods. Work the rear derailleur up and back (just one click, since you won't be riding) and see what feels better between the two.


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## knightev (Sep 22, 2011)

Peanya said:


> The hoods are shaped very differently. You don't need to test ride to see which one you prefer. Stand over the bike, and grip the bars at the hoods and below the hoods. Work the rear derailleur up and back (just one click, since you won't be riding) and see what feels better between the two.


very true. i've held the hoods, and they felt good. but i was always afraid to click with the shopkeepers looming over me... 

i will go in next time with a bit more courage, a bit more self-assurance...

i just wonder if the dynamic changes when you are actually riding? probably not very much, but i still wish i could test-ride.

thanks for the suggestions!


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## JCavilia (Sep 12, 2005)

knightev said:


> very good point, about the ergonomics... which is also part of the problem. i live in paris, where no one lets you test-ride. :/ so, i can't really get a good feel for it.
> 
> right now, though, i do ride a specialized tricross with the entry of entry level shimano gruppo that has the thumb-levers, which i really like... not sure if that has anything at all in similarity to the campy stuff, but, there it is...


If you like Sora, I think you'd love Campy. It's similar, but different in a way that makes it better. Campy's thumb button is placed lower and further back, so unlike the Sora button it can be operated easily with hands in the drops, as well as on the hoods.


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## ultraman6970 (Aug 1, 2010)

U can'T compare sora junk with campagnolo centaur, centaur is way superior in quality, all the low end shimano is like shifting a 1935 YUGO TRUCK just to put it in perspective.

I have helped people in the road with sora and OMG what a piece of [email protected]! I dont know how shimano came up with that group at all, specially the brifters. I have a bike with record and another with centaur, slight differences between them.


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## knightev (Sep 22, 2011)

JCavilia said:


> If you like Sora, I think you'd love Campy. It's similar, but different in a way that makes it better. Campy's thumb button is placed lower and further back, so unlike the Sora button it can be operated easily with hands in the drops, as well as on the hoods.


that is the feeling i got, too, as i held the hoods... i am going to do some bike shopping tomorrow, so i will pay closer attention to how campy feels, now that thus FP Quattro with Centaur has entered my life...


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## pmf (Feb 23, 2004)

You realize that this question will likely set off the inevitable Campy versus Shimano "debate". As JC says, the shifting systems are different and some folks have strong preferences. I have two bikes with the older 9-speed Dura Ace and oner with the new 11-speed Campy Athena. I like them both in terms of how they work. I find the Campy hoods a bit more comfortable (compared to the old Shimano hoods -- the new obnes are different). I find the Shimano shifting a bit smoother and more reliable. Of course, this is comparing top of the line Shimano (10 years ago) with several rungs down the ladder level Campy Athena. I don't regret getting the Campy. 

Pricewise, the Campy and Shimano offerings don't exactly align. Campy in Europe is relatively cheaper than in the U.S. I bought my Athena group at a U.K. web store (Ribble). Their pricing shows
105 about equal to Centaur
Ultegra in between Athena and Chorus (closer to Athena)
Dura Ace in between Chorus and Record (closer to Record)

So if you are indifferent to the mechanics of each system, and believe that the higher end groups are better than the lower end groups (true, but with diminishing returns), then the Ultegra bike is the better deal, with the price difference being $275, or EU 200, based on Ribble's pricing. You're getting 200 euros upgrade in components for 100 euros. Or thinking of it another way, you're getting an upgrade from 105 to Ultegra for free. 

If it were me, I'd probably go for the Ultegra just because its one rung down from the top of Shimano's offerings while Centaur is three rungs down (excluding Super Record).


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## knightev (Sep 22, 2011)

yes, that unfortunate debate...

but, pmf, your response is incredibly helpful! i was leaning towards ultegra, but that little part of me that wants to have something "different" when i move back to the states is pulling me towards the centaur. so it goes.

thanks for the input, very very helpful.


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## pmf (Feb 23, 2004)

knightev said:


> yes, that unfortunate debate...
> 
> but, pmf, your response is incredibly helpful! i was leaning towards ultegra, but that little part of me that wants to have something "different" when i move back to the states is pulling me towards the centaur. so it goes.
> 
> thanks for the input, very very helpful.


Although Campy is not real common place un the U.S., I doubt anyone is going to ooh and aah over the Centaur group. It's funny -- everybody at my LBS loves campy and steel bikes. How many Campy bikes do they have on the floor -- zero. Steel bikes? -- zero. 

There is asthetics to think about. I bought my Campy group because it was going on a classic steel frame. I found the new look of Shimano to be ugly. I think it looks nice on the latest gee-whiz carbon bikes, but not on a re-sprayed Merckx frame.


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## knightev (Sep 22, 2011)

pmf said:


> Although Campy is not real common place un the U.S., I doubt anyone is going to ooh and aah over the Centaur group. It's funny -- everybody at my LBS loves campy and steel bikes. How many Campy bikes do they have on the floor -- zero. Steel bikes? -- zero.


from where i come in the u.s., there might be a few people more excited to see anything campy, even centaur, than in other parts of the country.


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## Keeping up with Junior (Feb 27, 2003)

*Ladders*

Your first step ought to be "feeling" which levers fit your hand best. If they wont let you go for a real test ride at least put each in a trainer and spin through a few gear changes with different hand positions.

Our family has not ridden any recent versions of shifters as the Campy shifters we are using last a long time and thus are a few years old. My wife has carbon Chorus shifters as does our tandem, my bike has alloy Chorus shifters, my son has alloy Centaur shifters. All shift well and feel pretty similar. My kid is faster on his bike than my wife and me and rides many more miles (and shifts) than us. Repair wise I have rebuilt (new G spings) my levers once and his levers twice. I previously used some now dead Ultegra shifters on the tandem and found them comparible to the Centaur levers until the Ultregra levers finally failed and could not be repaired. I have not ridden SRAM but this brand should be considered in your search.

Pick your price point and then buy what fits your hands and personal taste.



pmf said:


> ...Pricewise, the Campy and Shimano offerings don't exactly align...
> ...If it were me, I'd probably go for the Ultegra just because its one rung down from the top of Shimano's offerings while Centaur is three rungs down (excluding Super Record).


Be careful using PMF's method of comparison. While price is a factor in what you buy it is not a reliable way to determine how product lines match up performance/quality wise.

Also be careful when counting down from the top as the "ladders" are different heights and have a different number of rungs. Scroll back through the Campy/Shimano debates for a better analysis of model heirarchy. Just be careful of the zealots that are predujiced one way or another.


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## JCavilia (Sep 12, 2005)

knightev said:


> from where i come in the u.s., there might be a few people more excited to see anything campy, even centaur, than in other parts of the country.


I think that's still true in most places in the US. If you go riding with a club group of gearheads who keep up with the latest thing, some will sniff, "mere centaur; how ordinary," but most people who know a little about cycling, and even most recreational enthusiasts, will say, "Campagnolo; nice bike."


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## pmf (Feb 23, 2004)

Keeping up with Junior said:


> Be careful using PMF's method of comparison. While price is a factor in what you buy it is not a reliable way to determine how product lines match up performance/quality wise.
> 
> Just be careful of the zealots that are predujiced one way or another.


Words to live by, indeed :thumbsup:


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## Peanya (Jun 12, 2008)

ultraman6970 said:


> U can compare sora junk with campagnolo centaur, centaur is way superior in quality, all the low end shimano is like shifting a 1935 YUGO TRUCK just to put it in perspective.
> 
> I have helped people in the road with sora and OMG what a piece of [email protected]! I dont know how shimano came up with that group at all, specially the brifters. I have a bike with record and another with centaur, slight differences between them.


I don't think anyone can honestly call Sora "crap". It shifts just as fast as any more expensive system. I'm sure it's just as reliable as any other system too. The shifting is different, and the thumb levers do require a bit more force than the tab levers of the higher-end components, but it doesn't make it garbage. 
I purposely used Sora components on my retro build, because of low maintenance and durability.


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## knightev (Sep 22, 2011)

Peanya said:


> I don't think anyone can honestly call Sora "crap". It shifts just as fast as any more expensive system. I'm sure it's just as reliable as any other system too. The shifting is different, and the thumb levers do require a bit more force than the tab levers of the higher-end components, but it doesn't make it garbage.
> I purposely used Sora components on my retro build, because of low maintenance and durability.


it has yet to do me wrong! a few adjustments now and then, of course, but nothing more serious than that.


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## sanrensho (Jan 2, 2003)

Hate to contribute to the thread shift, but my Sora shifters were excellent and reliable/flawless, and I've owned and used everything up to Dura Ace. I got years of use from those shifters, and only sold them to move up to 9-speed and because the thumb shifting was not usable from the drops. They were light, too. I'd buy Sora shifters again in a heartbeat for a budget build.


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## rogger (Aug 19, 2005)

ultraman6970 said:


> U can compare sora junk with campagnolo centaur, centaur is way superior in quality, all the low end shimano is like shifting a 1935 YUGO TRUCK just to put it in perspective.
> 
> I have helped people in the road with sora and OMG what a piece of [email protected]! I dont know how shimano came up with that group at all, specially the brifters. I have a bike with record and another with centaur, slight differences between them.


OMG, you've driven a 1935 YUGO TRUCK? AWESOME! :thumbsup:


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## nightfend (Mar 15, 2009)

Centaur is old and is a 10-speed system (The price is cheaper because they are probably trying to close it out). Which means that once you buy it, you will see all the 11-speed Campy stuff out there and wish you had the newer Athena group on your bike instead.


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## knightev (Sep 22, 2011)

11 speed campy... sounds beautiful. 

went to an LBS today, felt some campy hoods... loved them. 

now the matter is just choosing which bike i really want to drop a bunch of money on.


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## The The (Sep 9, 2002)

Oh no, not this argument again!

Whatever you do, get the best frame and wheels you can afford and don't worry too much about the rest. Centaur is great. Ultegra is great. You could be equally happy on 105 or Veloce, really.


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## knightev (Sep 22, 2011)

The The said:


> Oh no, not this argument again!
> 
> Whatever you do, get the best frame and wheels you can afford and don't worry too much about the rest. Centaur is great. Ultegra is great. You could be equally happy on 105 or Veloce, really.



haha, yeah, sorry for starting "the argument"... that is why i tried to avoid "vs" in the title, as i wanted it to be more factual, if at all possible, then opinion....

anyway, i came to the same conclusion as you, actually! at this point of my road biking, i just need a solid base (i.e. frame) to start from. i was talking today to a dude here at an LBS about the Wilier Izoard XP... which i could build up in Veloce, 105, Centaur, Athena or Ultegra... and i was thinking, why not just do veloce, and get a great pair of wheels? but there is always that little voice inside that says "for only 300 more you could get it with athena..." ha. we will see.

but, thank you for the words of wisdom!


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## ultraman6970 (Aug 1, 2010)

Yes, it is a piece of crap!!! Specially the brifters!

Again, yes it is!



Peanya said:


> I don't think anyone can honestly call Sora "crap". It shifts just as fast as any more expensive system. I'm sure it's just as reliable as any other system too. The shifting is different, and the thumb levers do require a bit more force than the tab levers of the higher-end components, but it doesn't make it garbage.
> I purposely used Sora components on my retro build, because of low maintenance and durability.


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## C-40 (Feb 4, 2004)

*differences...*

There's a significant difference in the function of all current 10 speed and Athena 11 speed shifters, compared to the higher level Campy shifters. The lower levels all have shifters with the powershift mechanism. The shifts to smaller cogs, with the thumb button, are limited to only 1-cog per push. With the higher level ultrashift levers, you can shift up to 5 cogs smaller with one push of the button. Seasoned Campy users would definitely notice the restricted ability of the powershift levers.

If I was buying Campy today, it would at least need Chorus 11 shifters to get the ultrashift mechanism. A little known secret is that the internals of the Chorus shifters are identical to Record and even the much higher priced SR shifters only have one small Ti part that reduces the weight by about 3 grams. 


Groupsets - ATHENA - Campagnolo - The official Campagnolo web site - Bicycle Parts and Components Cycling


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## pmf (Feb 23, 2004)

The 2010 version of Athena had ultrashift. In 2011 it got downgraded to powershift. 

If you're going to get Athena, the upgrade to Chorus shifters is pretty minimal. I have the 2010 Athena, and I really like being able to shift several gears at a time. The cool part of Athena is that you can get the parts in a silver finish. 

Don't get cheapo components and spend the "savings" on nice wheels. Components will stay on your bike for a long time. Especially good ones. Save up your money and buy the wheels later. Everyone needs at least one spare set of wheels.


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## onespeedbiker (May 28, 2007)

I really don't think you can call most of the mid-range components, Campy or Shimano, "cheapo"; they all work well. If someone has a problem with Sora or Xenon, it means it wasn't set up right (very common with Sora). As far as Campy vs Shimano the difference are simply preference. In 1999 I had to choose between a Schwinn Circuit with 9 speed 105 components and Marin Vicenza with Veloce components. I tried both and ended up going to the Ultegra level Schwinn Peleton (still one of the most beautiful tig frames ever made). I chose Shimano because of the ease of shifting; two fingers and a light touch. However as I have spent more time with the Ultegra, I found the shifters loosened up quite a bit and I developed a dislike for the shifter brake lever. The shifters finally started to experience mis-shifts; this was remedied by spraying some silicone spray in the shifters, but I figured it was a temporary fix. I have since switched to a pair of 2001 Daytona (now Centaur) 10 speed shifters using the hubub cable routing and it works great. They are a completely different feel and the shifters seem to need a bit more effort, but the shifts are sappy with a more defined "click" as you change gears. In the US Campy parts are still very limited, so a Shimergo (as they call it) makes since in case you need a quick replacement of a new derailleur, cassette or wheelset.


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## arndogg (May 13, 2009)

my first roadbike, cannondale R1000, had shimano ultegra shifters. I had minor issues with it but overall, it worked for me. On my second bike I decided to give Campy a shot (Chorus on mine, Centaur on the wife's). In my opinion, Campagnolo's shifting action is more intuitive. I also like how it fits my hands. 3d bike has Athena 11 speed, with ultrashift levers. I don't think I could go with any other make, unless I'm doing a budget bike or something. Again, just my experience.


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