# Hincapie! Argh!



## lemonlime (Sep 24, 2003)

Dude exasperates the crap out of me.

He's in a break of 23 today with a teammate (Rubiera) and there are only a couple other notable riders (Bettini and Arveson).

I'm following the CN coverage. They're coming down to the final 3k or so. I'm thinking, cool, we're gonna see George attack. Go, George! Go, brother!

What do I get? Mario Aerts attacks, as do the following schlubs: Rinaldo Nocentini, Brutt, and Sella. Finally, Bettini goes and Kurt-Asle Arvesen comes around him to take the win.

No mention of Hincapie. Crickets for that guy.

George, 'tween you, me, and the fencepost, this whole laisez-faire approach to racing ain't working. You have to _try_ to win races. You have to use your teammates. You're in the break, you've got about three or four serious competitors and you do nothing? WTF, chuck?

Before the Hincapie apologists come out of the woodwork: no, I wasn't there. I could only follow the coverage as written by the CN staff so I know I didn't get the whole story. Maybe he was ill. Or just not feeling it. Or suffering from toxic shock from his tampon...who knows? But you have to admit, more often than not you end up a little dismayed by his performances, US Champ not withstanding of course.


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## barbedwire (Dec 3, 2005)

I'm not making up an excuse for George, but he does seem to have a tendency to wait to long. It's one thing to try to wait until the other breakaway riders are spent, but it seems like he is always waiting too long and not taking chances.


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## stevesbike (Jun 3, 2002)

funny, while watching it I was thinking about posting a Hincapie prediction for a stage win when I saw he and a teammate were in the break, then I thought, no, he'll blow it. Discovery didn't seem to have any organization for the sprint. Even though Bettini was mad that he got second, at least he was aggressive and did what he could to try to win. if you were anyone else in that break, why wouldn't you be glued to Bettini's wheel over the last few kms??


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## lemonlime (Sep 24, 2003)

stevesbike said:


> funny, while watching it I was thinking about posting a Hincapie prediction for a stage win when I saw he and a teammate were in the break, then I thought, no, he'll blow it. Discovery didn't seem to have any organization for the sprint. Even though Bettini was mad that he got second, at least he was aggressive and did what he could to try to win. if you were anyone else in that break, why wouldn't you be glued to Bettini's wheel over the last few kms??


Agree - Bettini would be the wheel to be with, no? Then again, I'm kinda surprised the peleton let him get away in the break at all; isn't he some kind of CG threat?

George didn't even blow it, he was just a non-factor extra set of wheels in the break.:cryin: :mad2:


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## JSR (Feb 27, 2006)

All true, and yet he sits 15th on GC at 3:04. Ahead of Smoni, Cunego, DeLuca, et al, and well ahead of his team's designated GC guy. 

How'd that happen?


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## ChilliConCarnage (Jun 1, 2006)

whoa - why all the hincapie slapping? He's said he's only there for training purposes - getting ready for the tour after missing out on the Classics following his accident in the TOC.


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## Mosovich (Feb 3, 2004)

*Training....*

so, when opportunity presents it self, you're going to say, "well, this race is for training, I'm not here to try and win". Now in an interview he said he would like to win a stage. So, how about putting on a little more "try" into it. I mean come on for goodness sakes... It will help you out when trying to find a team next year if Diso doesn't find another sponsor.


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## Pablo (Jul 7, 2004)

ChilliConCarnage said:


> whoa - why all the hincapie slapping?


Have you watched him race in the past few years? He is exasperating.


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## SilasCL (Jun 14, 2004)

Pablo said:


> Have you watched him race in the past few years? He is exasperating.


Yep, the only races I give him a pass on are '06 P-R and Flanders...he messed up some others pretty good.


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## 32and3cross (Feb 28, 2005)

JSR said:


> All true, and yet he sits 15th on GC at 3:04. Ahead of Smoni, Cunego, DeLuca, et al, and well ahead of his team's designated GC guy.
> 
> How'd that happen?


Cause there's mountians and TTs coming and while Bettini dose both OK he'll get dropped in the Mtns and lose time in TTs.


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## 32and3cross (Feb 28, 2005)

ChilliConCarnage said:


> whoa - why all the hincapie slapping? He's said he's only there for training purposes - getting ready for the tour after missing out on the Classics following his accident in the TOC.



Cause is you gonna make the effort to be in the break you may as well make a run at the win.


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## Fignon's Barber (Mar 2, 2004)

lemonlime said:


> He's in a break of 23 today with a teammate (Rubiera) and there are only a couple other notable riders (Bettini and Arveson).
> 
> I'm following the CN coverage. They're coming down to the final 3k or so. I'm thinking, cool, we're gonna see George attack.
> Before the Hincapie apologists come out of the woodwork: no, I wasn't there. I could only follow the coverage as written by the CN staff


.


Easier said than done. I watched the stage live on RAI. The break went 80km into the day, and road flat out for approx 175km. The Tinkoff guy ,Brutt (?), is a world class pursuit rider on the track, and had it lined out as such for the last 5km. Given that hincapie hasn't raced at this level in ,what, 7 months, I can understand his inability to finish off the stage. I'm no "hincapie apologist", I just appreciate what it takes to ride at this level.. I'll never call a rider who finishes 2nd or 3rd in roubaix or flanders "soft".


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## lemonlime (Sep 24, 2003)

Fignon's Barber said:


> .
> 
> 
> Easier said than done. I watched the stage live on RAI. The break went 80km into the day, and road flat out for approx 175km. The Tinkoff guy ,Brutt (?), is a world class pursuit rider on the track, and had it lined out as such for the last 5km. Given that hincapie hasn't raced at this level in ,what, 7 months, I can understand his inability to finish off the stage. I'm no "hincapie apologist", I just appreciate what it takes to ride at this level.. I'll never call a rider who finishes 2nd or 3rd in roubaix or flanders "soft".


Fair enough; like I said, I wasn't able to actually watch it, just following the cyclingnews coverage.

I'm still thinking, however, that if you're in the break you gotta try. What's the point otherwise? To finish sooner and get a better seat on the bus back to the hotel?


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## Dwayne Barry (Feb 16, 2003)

lemonlime said:


> Then again, I'm kinda surprised the peleton let him get away in the break at all; isn't he some kind of CG threat?


Several outside threat GC guys made hay on the stage but Bettini isn't one of them. Sella, Nocentini, Petrov, Cioni are all maybe top 10 guys but clearly didn't worry the real GC favorites or they would have had their teams put more of an effort in to reduce the gap. Even some other guys would be more fancied on GC than Bettini but will probably lack freedom b/c of their team's GC riders (e.g. Noe, Breseghin, Marzano). Arroyo might do well but is an unknown factor at this point.


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## Gnarly 928 (Nov 19, 2005)

*Try?*



lemonlime said:


> Fair enough; like I said, I wasn't able to actually watch it, just following the cyclingnews coverage.
> 
> I'm still thinking, however, that if you're in the break you gotta try. What's the point otherwise? To finish sooner and get a better seat on the bus back to the hotel?


 Maybe he DID try and just didn't have it. He tried harder than most of the rest of em, just to be in the break, so perhaps he just did in his legs before the end, hanging onto the break. He is a pretty 'poker-faced' guy..His 'presentation' isn't much different no matter how he's riding...Though he did show a small smile once during a stage win...
Don Hanson


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## dagger (Jul 22, 2004)

?????..... Hincappie got boxed in at 150m out, or he would have won stage7....RELAX! Watch the video and you will see why.


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## terzo rene (Mar 23, 2002)

The biggest tactical blunder of the day was Ricco letting Bettini and others badger him into dropping back from the breakaway. Cost Saunier a lot of work and if he'd stayed put they could have either effectively won the Giro with him that day or made the other GC guys' teams bust their butts to bring it back.

I wouldn't be surprised if Hincapie never regains his former "form". Post Basso and with Contador and others still on the team I wouldn't be at all surprised if they are getting as much attention in the form of targeted testing as Phonak was toward the end.


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## dagger (Jul 22, 2004)

*Contador*



terzo rene said:


> T.


I don't think Contador will be in the TDF since his name is on the Puerto list.


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## atpjunkie (Mar 23, 2002)

*George didn't attack*

because 1-3 riders doesn't stand a chance against the other 20

he got boxed in the sprint in the finale


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## mohair_chair (Oct 3, 2002)

atpjunkie said:


> because 1-3 riders doesn't stand a chance against the other 20
> 
> he got boxed in the sprint in the finale


Plus, something not mentioned is that George is coming back from a broken hand resulting from a crash. Why risk another crash trying to break out of the box to certainly lose against Bettini and Arvesen and some others, in what is supposed to be a training race? There are times to take risks, and this wasn't one of them.


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## Dwayne Barry (Feb 16, 2003)

dagger said:


> ?????..... Hincappie got boxed in at 150m out, or he would have won stage7....RELAX! Watch the video and you will see why.


Hincapie outsprinting Bettini? The fact that Arvseson did it was about a 1 in 100 shot, Hincapie probably had about the same odds and he would have had to get by Arvseson who did the sprint of his life.


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## SilasCL (Jun 14, 2004)

He did outsprint him at flanders last year, but if I remember correctly Bettini was covering more of the moves and may have tailed off the back of the chasing group...


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## Spin42 (Sep 8, 2004)

*Hincapie*

I rarely post on here because I don't like getting in a this or that slap fest. But if in fact Hincapie is there for training purposes then it's just that. Look how many more races Lance could have won if he hadn't disciplined himself to be there for training purposes. I enjoy watching Hincapie as much as the next guy, but the Giro isn't his main focus right now, showing up at the TdF in top shape is. Winning a stage at the TdF is a much bigger deal then the Giro...and much more rewarding for your career, your legacy, and your financial well being. Remember, nobody at the TdF is there to train, everyone is going balls out! You win a stage there, you really truly accomplished something. I think a lot of people have lost site of that from everything Lance has achieved in the TdF.


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## Einstruzende (Jun 1, 2004)

Spin42 said:


> I rarely post on here because I don't like getting in a this or that slap fest. But if in fact Hincapie is there for training purposes then it's just that. Look how many more races Lance could have won if he hadn't disciplined himself to be there for training purposes. I enjoy watching Hincapie as much as the next guy, but the Giro isn't his main focus right now, showing up at the TdF in top shape is. Winning a stage at the TdF is a much bigger deal then the Giro...and much more rewarding for your career, your legacy, and your financial well being. Remember, nobody at the TdF is there to train, everyone is going balls out! You win a stage there, you really truly accomplished something. I think a lot of people have lost site of that from everything Lance has achieved in the TdF.


This "targeted" training is not all it's cracked up to be. Winning at two GTs has been done many times, and in fact the last time it was done was the year before Lance started winning the TdF. I'm pretty sure it happened 3 or 4 times in the 90s in fact (Winning two GTs in one year).

We will see double winners again, and soon. I bet in the next 3 years. Just need one of these younger riders to start fulfilling their potential.


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## mohair_chair (Oct 3, 2002)

Einstruzende said:


> We will see double winners again, and soon. I bet in the next 3 years. Just need one of these younger riders to start fulfilling their potential.


Maybe, but will it include the TDF? Like Spin42 said, nobody is training for anything at the Tour. Whereas, some are at the Giro to train for the TDF, and some are at the Vuelta to train for the World Championships. Guys like Cunego, Garzelli, and Simoni can win the Giro, but seemed totally overwhelmed and outclassed at the Tour. (I won't even mention Savoldelli.)

I don't think anyone has ever won the Vuelta and Giro in the same year since they moved the Vuelta to August/September.


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## Fredke (Dec 10, 2004)

Einstruzende said:


> Winning at two GTs has been done many times


Winning both Giro and Tour in the same year has been done by seven people:

Pantani
Indurain (twice)
Roche
Hinault (twice)
Merckx (thrice)
Anquetil
Coppi (twice)

It's no disrespect to Hincapie to say that I don't think he is quite in their league.


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## mcnuke (Jul 5, 2005)

*Hincapie for TDF King of the Mountains?*

Just a prediction, but I think he's preparing for a run at KOM at the TDF... :thumbsup: 

Yep, Supporting Levi from the front in the mountains. Let the young guys stay with Levi and let George go.


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## Spin42 (Sep 8, 2004)

Fredke said:


> Winning both Giro and Tour in the same year has been done by seven people:
> 
> Pantani
> Indurain (twice)
> ...


Nice stats but...

This is all before Armstong and maybe a few others have revolutionized training with Doctors and science to get the body to peak at a specific time. I believe all this was done before cyclists were training and some racing regulary with power meters. I'm not trying to offend your intelligence, but none of these guys have accomplished, "The Double" since the turn of the century, or, since this training technique of, "Peaking", has been discovered and practiced by most teams and there leader(s). Training with power meters and Doctors who specialize in, "Exercise Physiology" have left a lot less holes in the competition. It could happen, but I think there's too much money in the TdF for any team to allow one team to accomplish, "The Double." After all this Puerto stuff shakes out, you might be left with one strong rider and team. But once all the suspensions are served and everybody is back up to speed, I have my doubts. Too many other races are more important than the Giro and the TdF is by far too big and important of a race.
Just my opinion.


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## Fredke (Dec 10, 2004)

I think we're making the same point. You're saying Hincapie shouldn't have tried to sprint for the stage win because it would upset his periodization. I'm saying he shouldn't have done it because he's saving himself for the Tour and he's no Merckx or Pantani who could go after two grand tours in three months. 

Same conclusion, just different paths to get there.


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## JGUTZ (Dec 13, 2005)

*No Hincapie for KOM*

Two points i want to make: (1) I don't think Brunillo would even consider allowing one of his top riders to compete for the KOM if he has a legit overall GC contendor (Levi), he would be giving away alot of horsepower. (2) Big George, as awesome as he is, is not a KOM competetion rider. He could not stay with the likes of Rasmussen and Arroyo and other true climbers on all the mountain stages.


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## gray8110 (Dec 11, 2001)

JGUTZ said:


> Two points i want to make: (1) I don't think <strong>Brunillo</strong> would even consider allowing one of his top riders to compete for the KOM if he has a legit overall GC contendor (Levi), he would be giving away alot of horsepower.


<strong>Brunillo</strong>??!! Is that a new name on the Puerto list? or just a <em>recombination</em> of Johan Bruyneel and Birillo himself Ivan Basso


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## Dwayne Barry (Feb 16, 2003)

Spin42 said:


> but none of these guys have accomplished, "The Double" since the turn of the century,


Well if OP hadn't emerged last year Basso would have stood a good chance. Who can say about Armstrong? He never tried the double yet won every Tour since the turn of the century until last year so it is an open question if the double is possible.


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## Dwayne Barry (Feb 16, 2003)

Fredke said:


> I think we're making the same point. You're saying Hincapie shouldn't have tried to sprint for the stage win because it would upset his periodization. I'm saying he shouldn't have done it because he's saving himself for the Tour and he's no Merckx or Pantani who could go after two grand tours in three months.
> 
> Same conclusion, just different paths to get there.


And neither makes any sense. Do you really think after doing a couple hundred kilometres in breaks (including yesterday's stage) that doing a single sprint at the end of a stage would really upset his periodization or overextend him?


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## jhamlin38 (Oct 29, 2005)

I'm pretty sure stephen roche won the triple giro, tour, vuelta


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## Dwayne Barry (Feb 16, 2003)

jhamlin38 said:


> I'm pretty sure stephen roche won the triple giro, tour, vuelta


No, no one has ever done that. It has only really become possible in recent decades as before that the Giro and Vuelta were both held in the Spring.

The triple Roche won was the Giro, Tour and World Championships.


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## Kestreljr (Jan 10, 2007)

Dwayne Barry said:


> And neither makes any sense. Do you really think after doing a couple hundred kilometres in breaks (including yesterday's stage) that doing a single sprint at the end of a stage would really upset his periodization or overextend him?



I would agree with this. The only reason it would make sense for him to not take a lot of chances in the last 200 meters is that it could lead to crashing out of the TDF. (But I didn't see the footage, so I have no idea what I am talking about.)


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## terzo rene (Mar 23, 2002)

If by periodization you mean disappearing for a month to avoid competition dope controls and coming back much stronger because of EPO and blood transfusions the modern era is different. The real credit goes to increasingly sophisticated doping methods that allowed speeds to stay almost the same as during the unregulated EPO days despite significantly more effective controls.

Powermeters make the biggest difference in efficiency of training not the effectiveness in reaching your genetic potential - with enough volume you can do quite a few things wrong and still get very close to your maximum. Periodization is an old concept (Bompa's classic on the subject was first published in 1983 and the basic concept is far older) so it really can't be the reason for LA or other 21st century riders' performances either.


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## zosocane (Aug 29, 2004)

According to Velonews, Hincapie DNS'd today's stage to Briancon together with Robbie McEwen and Robert Forster.


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## bas (Jul 30, 2004)

fornaca68 said:


> According to Velonews, Hincapie DNS'd today's stage to Briancon together with Robbie McEwen and Robert Forster.



Yep, abandoned before Stage 12. 1 day before Popovych.


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## ghostzapper2007 (May 22, 2007)

Spin42 said:


> I rarely post on here because I don't like getting in a this or that slap fest. But if in fact Hincapie is there for training purposes then it's just that. Look how many more races Lance could have won if he hadn't disciplined himself to be there for training purposes. I enjoy watching Hincapie as much as the next guy, but the Giro isn't his main focus right now, showing up at the TdF in top shape is. Winning a stage at the TdF is a much bigger deal then the Giro...and much more rewarding for your career, your legacy, and your financial well being. Remember, nobody at the TdF is there to train, everyone is going balls out! You win a stage there, you really truly accomplished something. I think a lot of people have lost site of that from everything Lance has achieved in the TdF.



One of the worst things Armstrong did for racing was create this precedent that you only try to win the TDF and you basically take a powder in all the other races using them as training tools. You would have never seen Merckx try crap like that. I'm glad Armstrong is history and hopefully will get some new peleton leaders who actually try to win races other than the TDF rather than just train up to the TDF and then afterwards take the rest of the year basically off. Just my opinion, flame away.


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