# Difference between GP4000 & GP4000S?



## BLACKSHEEP54 (May 7, 2007)

What is the difference between the Conti GP 4000 and the GP 4000S?


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## Kerry Irons (Feb 25, 2002)

*It's black, baby*



BLACKSHEEP54 said:


> What is the difference between the Conti GP 4000 and the GP 4000S?


The S stands for Schwartz, the German word for the color black. GP 4000 covers all the GP 4K, regardless of color. The black tire means carbon black in the rubber, and it is long known that carbon black makes for faster rubber than colors. Hardly significantly faster, but faster.


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## backinthesaddle (Nov 22, 2006)

Black Chili compound in the S tires and the black 4000 tires. Makes 'em roll better.
Rumour has it that the S tires have a much higher TPI count (330-ish)...

I have a set and they ride GOOOOD...


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## Slartibartfast (Jul 22, 2007)

backinthesaddle said:


> Black Chili compound in the S tires and the black 4000 tires. Makes 'em roll better.
> Rumour has it that the S tires have a much higher TPI count (330-ish)...
> 
> I have a set and they ride GOOOOD...


Conti claims 330 TPI for the 4000S. I see no reason to dispute this. I wonder what the TPI is for the 4000. If it's 330 TPI, I doubt there's a discernable difference between the two.

Conti's website is sly about what the "S" means -- schnell, schwarz... Okay, I know German as well as most, and I want a little more data than fast and black. 

In your opinion, do the 4000S feel better than the 4000? I haven't ridden either.


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## cmg (Oct 27, 2004)

4000s are suppose to have better grip, are lighter and have a higher tread count. probikekit.com has them cheaper.


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## Slartibartfast (Jul 22, 2007)

Well, there's no doubt, I'm going to try them. This thread is full of love for 4000S. But not until I wear out two pairs of Vittoria EVO CX 23s.


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## rruff (Feb 28, 2006)

BLACKSHEEP54 said:


> What is the difference between the Conti GP 4000 and the GP 4000S?


There have been some Crr tests done an the 4000s scores much better than the 4000. Don't know if there is a downside like reduced durability.


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## Slartibartfast (Jul 22, 2007)

rruff said:


> There have been some Crr tests done an the 4000s scores much better than the 4000. Don't know if there is a downside like reduced durability.


Sounds like a result of TPI difference or maybe compound difference. In either case worth a try when current tires wear out. This will be awhile -- two sets of Vittorias -- two seasons. I'm only good for about 3,800 on the road per year.


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## backinthesaddle (Nov 22, 2006)

I have ridden Vittoria OC CX tires exclusively for the past couple of years and bought a set of the 4000S tires for giggles. They seem to roll just as weel as the Vitts and the wear seems to be a bit better. 
The Vitts seem to turn in a little better in hard corners, but that may be because the are a bit fatter.
I really like the way they ride and will probably buy another pair.


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## BLACKSHEEP54 (May 7, 2007)

Thanks for the replys guys. I just ordered some GP 4000"s" from PBK. These should be a huge improvement over my stock Spec Roubaix crap tires.


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## Dr_John (Oct 11, 2005)

You'll love them. I got them to replace the Specialized All Conditions Pros I had been using since they came on my bike and seemed OK. After my first ride on them, I got back and ordered another set for my other bike. What I didn't expect is the far better wear/mileage I'm getting on them. After 1500 miles on Specialized All Conditions Pros the rear would be squared off and have so many slits in it I'd get too concerned and replace it. At 2100 miles on the rear over the same roads/paths,the 4000s still look great, and I wouldn't be surprised to get another 500-1000 miles out of it. I'm definitely a happy customer, which is pretty funny because I've had terrible experiences with Conti car tires.


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## The Smokester (Nov 10, 2007)

> ...I got them to replace the Specialized All Conditions Pros...


Same here with the Spec Pros. After 400 miles the rear tire (400 x 23c) has significant flattening down the center (although there is lots of life left in the tire). I had a fling with some Spec Roubaix Open Tubular S-Works (700x23/25c) but after 200 miles with multiple flats front and rear it is clear they are not practical for me.

So yesterday I switched to GP4000's (700 x 23c) for the first time (based largely on reviews and comments as in this thread) and have ridden about 30 miles (commuting). Too early to tell about other aspects but I do notice that they seem to ride rougher than the two tires above.

I might try out 700 x 25c (or 28c) for long distances (>100 miles). Anyone have experience/advice/comments with GP4000's in the long distance rider category? I am interested in smoothness of ride and reliability (lack of flats).


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## michael desimone (Nov 14, 2007)

l use to live down a gravel road (1.5mls) that was very harsh on tyres and although they still got cut up they are yet to puncture 
that was with the 23 at the time l weighed 215lb


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## android (Nov 20, 2007)

OK, I'm going resurrect this and ask if anybody has any details about the 2008 GP4000 in black which now has the chili compound and the 2008 GP4000S.

The Conti site shows 205g and 110-120psi for both models in the 700x23 size.

Other than the fine silver label, are there any differences between these tires now?


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## MIN in PDX (Nov 29, 2007)

Conti's TPI raing is bunk. It's triple ply and they count the overlap as if it were made of thin fibers.

Nice tires, but their TPI is inflated and inconsistent with how other's measure it.


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## android (Nov 20, 2007)

MIN in PDX said:


> Conti's TPI raing is bunk. It's triple ply and they count the overlap as if it were made of thin fibers.
> 
> Nice tires, but their TPI is inflated and inconsistent with how other's measure it.


Actually, I've got an older brochure about the GP3000. They break it down as 5 plies.

Anti puncture layers: 2x60 TPI
Carcass layers: 3x105 TPI
Total TPI: 435 (green tire)
Vulcanized tire: 430 TPI (perhaps subract a TPI for each layer?  )

I can't find any similar data for the GP4000 or 4000S though.


Yes, it seems that makers of sheets, shirting and bicycle tires seem to greatly exaggerate TPI in their products.


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## RoyIII (Feb 24, 2007)

"S" = silver label?


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## MIN in PDX (Nov 29, 2007)

"s" = designates the black chilli compound.


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## Dr_John (Oct 11, 2005)

> The Conti site shows 205g and 110-120psi for both models in the 700x23 size.





> Conti's TPI raing is bunk.


 And so are their claimed weights. All the 4000's and 4000S's I've weighed (I'm a scientist and have very accurate balances) are 220 g. The variation is no doubt due to the fact they're "handmade." 

I still like and use the tires, but will try Pro3's in the future.


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## tg3895 (Mar 14, 2006)

The 4000s and the 4000 (all black version) are the exact same tire except for the little bit of orange color on the 4000. Same black chili compound, same tpi, same tread design. I have the 4000. So far, they have been great.


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## al0 (Jan 24, 2003)

tg3895 said:


> The 4000s and the 4000 (all black version) are the exact same tire except for the little bit of orange color on the 4000. Same black chili compound, same tpi, same tread design. I have the 4000. So far, they have been great.


Sorry, but original 4000 do not have black chili compound. BTW, this compound differs mostly in particle size (if I remember correctly particles are about 10 times smaller then usual). 4000s have smaller rolling resistence then original 4000. BTW, in the TOUR test they beat hands down any other tires (including Vittoria CX and likes). They were best -alone or shared - in all nominations (rolling resistence, grip, etc...). In only one nomination (do not remember) they were second, but difference were marginal and wining tire were way down in all other nominations.

I have posted more detailed review of these tests in this forum few months ago.


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## Bocephus Jones II (Oct 7, 2004)

al0 said:


> Sorry, but original 4000 do not have black chili compound. BTW, this compound differs mostly in particle size (if I remember correctly particles are about 10 times smaller then usual). 4000s have smaller rolling resistence then original 4000. BTW, in the TOUR test they beat hands down any other tires (including Vittoria CX and likes). They were best -alone or shared - in all nominations (rolling resistence, grip, etc...). In only one nomination (do not remember) they were second, but difference were marginal and wining tire were way down in all other nominations.
> 
> I have posted more detailed review of these tests in this forum few months ago.


Maybe so, but I'm riding the standard 4000s now that I got for a steal through Steep and Cheep and they are excellent tires. Better than the GP3000s by a long shot. Feels like I'm riding tubies. I keep thinking they are going flat because they ride so nice even at 120psi.


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## android (Nov 20, 2007)

al0 said:


> Sorry, but original 4000 do not have black chili compound.


That was true of 2007 tires, but for 2008, that is no longer correct. 4000S tires have black chili as well as black 4000 tires. The colored 4000 tires do not have black chili. Check the Conti website and recent press releases.


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## al0 (Jan 24, 2003)

Bocephus Jones II said:


> Maybe so, but I'm riding the standard 4000s now that I got for a steal through Steep and Cheep and they are excellent tires. Better than the GP3000s by a long shot. Feels like I'm riding tubies. I keep thinking they are going flat because they ride so nice even at 120psi.


You have written "4000*s*" and this small "*s*" means black chili. BTW, Conti has promised for this yeear this (or rather comparable) compound for colored version of 4000. Do not know yet, if they are already in production (seems that not).

BTW, here is a link to the TOUR test that I have mentioned http://www.conti-online.com/generat...hrrad/allgemein/news/download/tourtest_de.pdf

, in German


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## al0 (Jan 24, 2003)

It is more accurate to say, that they do not produce "original" 4000 in black any more. Only 4000s are in production. 



android said:


> That was true of 2007 tires, but for 2008, that is no longer correct. 4000S tires have black chili as well as black 4000 tires. The colored 4000 tires do not have black chili. Check the Conti website and recent press releases.


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## Bocephus Jones II (Oct 7, 2004)

al0 said:


> You have written "4000*s*" and this small "*s*" means black chili. BTW, Conti has promised for this yeear this (or rather comparable) compound for colored version of 4000. Do not know yet, if they are already in production (seems that not).
> 
> BTW, here is a link to the TOUR test that I have mentioned http://www.conti-online.com/generator/www/de/de/continental/fahrrad/allgemein/news/download/tourtest_de.pdf
> 
> , in German


Sorry...I meant non "s" the s I wrote was for thousands as in the pair--the ones I have are grey tread so not all black. In any event, I can't see how the chili compound can be all that much better in the real world. Maybe in a lab they say they are better, but I like the non-chili ones just fine.


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## android (Nov 20, 2007)

al0 said:


> It is more accurate to say, that they do not produce "original" 4000 in black any more. Only 4000s are in production.


I dunno. I bought one at REI on Sunday night. It is a GP4000, but it has the red triangle black chili sticker on the box and and the other black and orange chili sticker that usually comes with the 4000S tires is in the box also. But it has a 4000 label on the tire rather than the 4000S silver outline. So it's looking like as tg3895 said earlier, they are the same except for the silkscreen colors.

Other than that, I can see no other visible differences, tread, sidewall, bead... all are the same.


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## al0 (Jan 24, 2003)

Bocephus Jones II said:


> Sorry...I meant non "s" the s I wrote was for thousands as in the pair--the ones I have are grey tread so not all black. In any event, I can't see how the chili compound can be all that much better in the real world. Maybe in a lab they say they are better, but I like the non-chili ones just fine.


The TOUR tests are done not completely in the lab - they include a good part of real-world testing. Original GP4000 are very good tires anyway, but they say that black chile gives 26% reducing of rolling resistance. Tests seems to support this claim. It is well known that previous conti tires (according to the earlier TOUR tests) were quite bad in this area. 4000s really shine in it.


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## Bocephus Jones II (Oct 7, 2004)

al0 said:


> The TOUR tests are done not completely in the lab - they include a good part of real-world testing. Original GP4000 are very good tires anyway, but they say that black chile gives 26% reducing of rolling resistance. Tests seems to support this claim. It is well known that previous conti tires (according to the earlier TOUR tests) were quite bad in this area. 4000s really shine in it.


I'm sure they are better tires. I'll probably get them next time I need tires, but I'm in no way dissapointed with the non-chili ones. Great tires. Better than the 3000 and my old standbys for years the original Grand Prix.


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## tg3895 (Mar 14, 2006)

The 2008 all black 4000 tire is exactly the same as the 2008 4000s. The only difference are the graphics. In the end, they are both great tires and are relatively priced the same give or take a couple of bucks.


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## fea (Sep 15, 2005)

*08 GP4000 with Black Chili Compound (Sticker)??*

Just got a pair of 08 GP4000 (700x20) only in black thou - Conti doesnt have this size in GP4000s range. MAX PSI 160. But i only go up to 145 as i always does with my previous Vederstien Fortezza Tricomp (which max psi 175 anyway). 

The reason aside of (700x20) that i went for GP4000 instead of GP4000s, is that i saw it somewhere that 08 GP4000 comes with Black Chili Compound. But instead of printed on the tire or a new designed box, there's this Triangle sticker on the box with the Black Chili Compound logo on it. Other than that, cant tell isit really with the B.C.Compound or not.

The ride was so much smoother than my previous Verderstien and it roll faster (i felt). It's quite similar to my pre-previous Attack/Force, only smoother and quieter (might be bcos of the size).


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## Noupy (Aug 25, 2003)

*Gp4000s*

226 and 227 gr on a accurate scale !!!


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