# BD Ramble / Final Decison



## Scott in MD (Jun 24, 2008)

I captured my thoughts on BD while I am in the middle of test riding a ton of bikes while I am making a purchase decision in the $2000-2500 range. I've been an avid mountain biker since I first picked up a Jamis Dakota in about 1986, and now I'm looking a more comfortable roadie to replace my twelve year old C'dale 650 Tri-bike since I have started racing again.

-	If you only have a grand to drop, BD is almost a no brainer. Give the most die-hard anti-BD cyclist less than about $1200, and I'm sure a BD Moto will at least be a finalist. At the $2K range, options start opening up quickly (Ridley Excal at CC, special deal at your LBS, etc) but in the $800-1500 range you are talking Tiaga / Aluminum or something online like Motobecane. $1000 is a lot of money for a lot of people, so you can't blame someone for prioritizing value.

-	Online merchants CAN’T provide the service that a LBS can, and bikes require service. It's tough to put a price on a great bike shop - period. Find one, support them, tip 'em with a Starbucks when they fix your bike, pay them to size up, fit and put together your internet bike. This is a good way to spend your money. If you”ve found a great LBS, you won't be getting any crap about where you bought the bike. If you do get hassled, you are NOT at a great bike shop. I paid to get fitted, learned a lot, and have taken the specs for internet bikes into my new LBS and gotten help comparing with the store bikes I am considering. The manager wants to sell me one of his bikes, but he is genuinely interested in getting me onto a bike I dig, mostly.

-	Not all LBS's are some kind of pillar of cycling tradition and integrity. I've been put on wrong size when mine wasn't available in the shop recently, and also stopped in to check out a leftover 2006 bike at LBS in the DC area advertised (online) for $1700. It was marked $2500 in the shop, but the manager told me I could have it for $2000 since it was a 2007 he was trying to get out the door!

-	Old rules get old for a reason, and the old rule says buy the best frame you can afford and then upgrade the components as you wear them out. But it sure seems to me that new bikers dig bling and seasoned bikers dig frames. ( I don’t know what the heck that has to do with my point…). 

For the record, I am down to two bikes in my decision making to a Ridley Excal with Rival or a Moto Ti with Ultegra. Both are great looking bikes on paper. I’ve ridden Felt, Cannondale (Six13 - Ultegra), Specialized (Tarmac – Ultegra/ 105), Giant OCR (Rival), Scott CR1 Team and Pro, Fuji Team SL, and probably about five other bikess. And chased some exotics on eBay. I don’t think the internet is worth “50%” but rather it’s probably about 30%. 

I’d welcome any thoughts on my top choices…


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## Snakebitten (Jun 26, 2008)

Im new to roadbiking per se so I dont have much experience on those models you rode or can I give you any worthwhile feedback on picking your new bike. But I can tell you that my Moto Immortal Spirit is great so far despite it being a tad small in frame according to a bike shop that insisted I send it back and buy from them 

Im having a hard time finding a bike shop that I feel comfortable with. So far all of the ones I went to have an attitude once they see the bike. Even had one tell me $89 for a tear down and tune up for my "road bike" until they saw it was MOTO and the price went up to $125. When I got my bike back and took it for a ride down a hill not far from the shop the right side brakes didnt work and the shifting went south. Fortunately the left side worked or who knows what could have happened. I even dropped around $400 there on accessories to show them they would have a good customer if they do right by me and even told them Id upgrade my frame through them later and still I was not taken seriously. 

Get ready to deal with nonsense like that if you buy from BD. Im sure they are decent shop for 95% of the people that go there with name brand bikes or bikes they sold em but they wont be getting my business ever again. When I find an LBS that takes me and my bike seriously Ill gladly talk them up here so that any future or current BD customers will know of at least one shop that will take them serious. I didnt see this coming at all. Was not privy to biking politics before my purchase. Maybe this is the LBS industry way of detering customers from purchacing from online retailers? It stinks imo.


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## Scott in MD (Jun 24, 2008)

*Natural Selection / Spirit Frame Size*

Thanks for the insight. 

I've can summarize my thoughts on snitty LBS's in two words - natural selection. The market will clear and take care of them. Changing environments require new strategies. Some local bike shops will learn that online bike distributors are creating a new market for them since expensive bikes are, by their nature, support-intensive machines and because the limited flexibility online purchases creates opportunties to sell a lot of mods and accessories (like you did with the $400 of stuff.) Others dig their heels in...

But a great bike shop is worth a lot...and there sure is no better alternative than a long test ride! You can't get that over the internet. If I'd spent as much time training as I have clicking through geometry and reviews, I could probably still be racing my old bananna seat, high-bar, baseball-card-in-the-spokes-clicking, 1976 vintage Schwinn 5 speed pretty fast.

What size Spirit did you get, and what size are you (height / cycling inseam)? One of the things I like about the Moto-Ti is the comfortable effective top tube (585) in the largest size (838 standover and 59 seat tube) and compared to some other bikes I've actually ridden like the Giant OCR (600 ETT and 58.5 ST in size XL


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## Snakebitten (Jun 26, 2008)

^^I agree completely on the issue of online buying. LBS would still make money regardless of where you bought the bike. 

I have a 62" frame Immortal Spirit. Im 6'6" Im not sure what cycling inseam I am. Total noob to that man lol but Im learning slowly. Im long in leg and arms though.

Funny thing happened today. I went to Bicycle Station here in NYC and they tuned it up right and adjusted the stem and seat on my bike and viola, it feels much better. Great service and I didnt get the snooty attitude towards the bike.


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## tennis5 (Mar 12, 2007)

Snake, I have to say I didnt have that experience at all...actually quite the contrary. The LBS I take my bikes to has welcomed me with open arms and asked me to go on weekly rides with them...which I did and I still do occasionally. They charged me very little to tune my bike out of the box...I put it together, but took it to them just to be safe...I think it was around $40 at the time...their regular tune-ups run $59 when they run specials in the off season. At any rate, they have been anything but snooty towards me which makes total sense to me. Should I ever decide to go to an LBS to buy a non-internet bike, where do you think I will go? To the ones that treat me nice, of course...just good business sense. Like Snake said, the ones that dont treat you well will eventually put themselves out of business. The business savvy ones will take repair work all day long from anyone...imo...


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## Snakebitten (Jun 26, 2008)

Tennis5 Im glad you didnt have the initial experience I did. Im by no means saying EVERY lbs will have those attitudes and practices obviously. Just beware of the attitude. I got the attitude loud and clear first thing as I got in. I said to my friend I dont like the vibe Im getting but I didnt listen to my gut feeling. Should have listened.


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## tennis5 (Mar 12, 2007)

yah, I am sure there are some out there that treat you that way, but I sure wouldnt do business with them and eventually those guys will weed themselves out of business. I just wanted folks to know there are also reputable ones out there as well that will help you out with no problem...:thumbsup: 




Snakebitten said:


> Tennis5 Im glad you didnt have the initial experience I did. Im by no means saying EVERY lbs will have those attitudes and practices obviously. Just beware of the attitude. I got the attitude loud and clear first thing as I got in. I said to my friend I dont like the vibe Im getting but I didnt listen to my gut feeling. Should have listened.


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## PhilA (Aug 17, 2008)

Interesting reading your experiences with BD bikes and local shops. My local shop (small town, there's only one) is run by a guy I know, and that I've never bought a bike from. But when I asked him about Moto's from BD, he said he's seen several and is pretty impressed with them. When I told him what I was lookjing at and the price, he said - "Buy it! Bring it in and I'll tune it for you." He's more interested in somebody getting a good ride for a good price than making a little margin on a bike. That's pretty smart in my book.


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## livin4lax09 (Mar 15, 2008)

PhilA said:


> Interesting reading your experiences with BD bikes and local shops. My local shop (small town, there's only one) is run by a guy I know, and that I've never bought a bike from. But when I asked him about Moto's from BD, he said he's seen several and is pretty impressed with them. When I told him what I was lookjing at and the price, he said - "Buy it! Bring it in and I'll tune it for you." He's more interested in somebody getting a good ride for a good price than making a little margin on a bike. That's pretty smart in my book.


see, this is the type of guy I would do business with. There needs to be more of them in the retail business.


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