# Dumb BB86 / BB30 Question.



## jonstringer

I'm convinced that I am ridiculous for asking this question. I am planning on purchasing a 2011 carbon road bike kitted with ultegra 6700. Shimano uses the BB86. I don't want the ultegra on the bike, I'd like to swap it for Sram Force. Sram uses BB30 BB technology. So... Will the frame be able to accommodate the different Bottom Bracket system? The bike I want is the 2011 Fuji Altamira 2.0. Here is a link to the specs:

http://www.fujibikes.com/bike/details/altamira_2_0

Before I purchase this bike I'd like to make sure it can be set up with sram. my training bike is sram, and i'm afraid i'm not talented enought to fluently use two different groupsets.

jon


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## frdfandc

The BB86 is a press fit system that utilizes a bearing without an external cup, but still has a "standard" crank that uses external BB bearings.

You can use the Sram GXP crank with the BB86 system, however you will need to get the proper Press Fit GXP BB.

Personally I'd keep the Ultegra crank. It shifts soooo nice.


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## beston

That is a sweet looking bike!

SRAM makes cranks for both BB30 AND the Shimano standard (they call the BB GXP). So, the frame will certainly be able to accommodate SRAM with the same BB standard without a problem.

... you can also just use the Ultegra crank with an otherwise SRAM force dominated drive train!


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## Argentius

What Frandotherstuff said, with an additional note:

With Shimano's press-fit bearing system ("bb86," "bb90", what not), you just buy a Shimano crank. The frame is different, and has directly pressed-in bearings.

With BB30 / press-fit 30 systems, offered by SRAM, FSA, Cannondale, and some other proprietary ones, the cranks are different.

You can buy a "regular" Force crankset, and use it on your Shimano press-fit system, no problem, with the bb86 adapter

If you buy a BB30 Force crankset, you can ONLY use it on BB30-type systems.

If you have a BB30 frame, you can use a crank with a "regular" (24mm) spindle, with adapters.

Confused yet?


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## ukbloke

AFAIK the BB GXP standard and the Shimano external BB standards are not the same, and there is no cross-compatibility between Shimano cranks and BB GXP, nor SRAM "regular" (non-BB30) cranks and the Shimano external BB.



> You can use the Sram GXP crank with the BB86 system, however you will need to get the proper Press Fit GXP BB.


That sounds plausible ... as long as that "Press Fit GXP BB" is actually available.


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## Argentius

Just about... The gxp bb has one bearing (ds, iirc?) that is the same as shimano, the other has a slightly different ID.




ukbloke said:


> AFAIK the BB GXP standard and the Shimano external BB standards are not the same, and there is no cross-compatibility between Shimano cranks and BB GXP, nor SRAM "regular" (non-BB30) cranks and the Shimano external BB.
> 
> 
> 
> That sounds plausible ... as long as that "Press Fit GXP BB" is actually available.


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## PlatyPius

ukbloke said:


> AFAIK the BB GXP standard and the Shimano external BB standards are not the same, and there is no cross-compatibility between Shimano cranks and BB GXP, nor SRAM "regular" (non-BB30) cranks and the Shimano external BB.
> 
> 
> 
> *That sounds plausible ... as long as that "Press Fit GXP BB" is actually available.*


I have one in stock, so yes.

http://www.amazon.com/SRAM-PressFit-Road-Bottom-Bracket/dp/B00283NJ7S

But, no... you can't use SRAM's BB30 cranks with a BB86 frame. You have to use SRAM's "normal" cranks.


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## dysfunction

Argentius said:


> Just about... The gxp bb has one bearing (ds, iirc?) that is the same as shimano, the other has a slightly different ID.


Yep, the ds is the same ID, the NDS is slightly smaller.


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## jonstringer

Thank you to everyone that chimed in. Is the installation of this adaptor a pain?


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## PlatyPius

jonstringer said:


> Thank you to everyone that chimed in. Is the installation of this adaptor a pain?


Takes about 15 seconds.


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## ealaniz

for sure this thread is not a dumb question, but certainly a dumb scenario of unclarity.

i'm in the same boat, bb86 frame and i bought the 4130 rotor bearings because i wanted a bb30 crankset. i was always concerned about the different bb widths and when i was not finding clear information on spindle length/requirement, i emailed rotor. unfortunately when i asked rotor if i can use non-rotor bb30 cranks with their 4130 bearings, they said YES.

and of course they were wrong, and i am furious to discover this after buying the sram bb30 cranks. so apparently it's not enough to have as many different bb systems and cranks as we have. but we also have bb30 cranks with different spindle lengths. the worse part of it is that no one clarifies what this length is, or at least i could not find it. maybe it's my fault but i thought all bb30 cranks were spec'd/sized the same, but they are not...?!

for sure i can say sram red bb30 doesn't work on bb86. it seems that rotor 3d+ will work with bb86. fsa, i have no idea...


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## PlatyPius

ealaniz said:


> for sure this thread is not a dumb question, but certainly a dumb scenario of unclarity.
> 
> i'm in the same boat, bb86 frame and i bought the 4130 rotor bearings because i wanted a bb30 crankset. i was always concerned about the different bb widths and when i was not finding clear information on spindle length/requirement, i emailed rotor. unfortunately when i asked rotor if i can use non-rotor bb30 cranks with their 4130 bearings, they said YES.
> 
> and of course they were wrong, and i am furious to discover this after buying the sram bb30 cranks. so apparently it's not enough to have as many different bb systems and cranks as we have. but we also have bb30 cranks with different spindle lengths. the worse part of it is that no one clarifies what this length is, or at least i could not find it. maybe it's my fault but i thought all bb30 cranks were spec'd/sized the same, but they are not...?!
> 
> for sure i can say sram red bb30 doesn't work on bb86. it seems that rotor 3d+ will work with bb86. fsa, i have no idea...


BB86 is a bottom bracket standard. (press-fit version of GXP or Shimano)
BB30 is a bottom bracket AND crank standard.

BB86 uses any NON-BB30 crank. (not including older styles like square taper and ISIS, of course)
BB30 uses EITHER crank - BB30 or non-BB30 - based on what BB or adaptor you use. BB30 cranks ONLY work with BB30 frames/BBs.


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## ealaniz

so which cranks have 30mm spindle but are non bb30?

rotor 3d+, and what else?


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## ms6073

ealaniz said:


> so which cranks have 30mm spindle but are non bb30?
> 
> rotor 3d+, and what else?


What you are looking for are BB386 cranksets. This is Cervelo (aka BBRight) & FSA's standard which uses a spindle that is 30mm in diameter but is long enough to work with both BB30/PF30 and BB86 bottom bracket sheels. Currenlty that list of cranks would iinclude Rotor 3D+, FSA K-Force 386,E-Thirteen mountain bike cranks, as well as several ultra light/boutique/real expensive cranks like THM Clavicula.


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## idgitman

jonstringer said:


> I'm convinced that I am ridiculous for asking this question. I am planning on purchasing a 2011 carbon road bike kitted with ultegra 6700. Shimano uses the BB86. I don't want the ultegra on the bike, I'd like to swap it for Sram Force. Sram uses BB30 BB technology. So... Will the frame be able to accommodate the different Bottom Bracket system? The bike I want is the 2011 Fuji Altamira 2.0. Here is a link to the specs:
> 
> Fuji Bikes - USA Archive
> 
> Before I purchase this bike I'd like to make sure it can be set up with sram. my training bike is sram, and i'm afraid i'm not talented enought to fluently use two different groupsets.
> 
> jon


I'm sure you've figured this out by now, but if not...

I offer this suggestion. First if you choose a a BB30 crankset you have to ensure that it has an 86.5mm spindle legnth. Std BB30 i think is designed for 68mm BB Shells.

For you altamira BB86 you can not use a std BB30 68mm crankset the spindle will not be long enough. So that leaves your with either 24mm spindle cranksets or BB386evo.

BB86 and BB386evo are not the same, I almost found out the hard way. BB/PF86 is based on the shimano std of 86.5mm wide bb shell and a 24mm spindle. BB386evo is base on a 86.5 wide bb shell but for a 30mm spindle. So, BB386 annotation stands for 30mm spindle, 86.5mm shell. PF86 is 24mm spindle 86.5 shell.

There is a solution if you want to upgrade to a BB386evo crankset. The issue is that on a BB386evo bb shell the bore opening is i think 46mm, on the BB/PF86 its only 41mm. The issue with a crankset with a 30mm spindle is that the bearing cups take up a certain amount of space and then you have the bearings, which is why, generally the 41mm PF86 opening can only accomodate teh 24mm crank spindle. 

However there is hope, Enduro bearings the maker of the bearings for the Rotor cranks which is based of the 30mm spindles makes a bearing that the bearing cup is integrated with the bearing body, and there by allowing the extra clearance need for the 30mm spindle.

The part is BB4130 or 41mm opening (PF86) 30mm Bearing opening (PF30). Originally these bearings came in black and red, however I have only been able to fined them in steel silver lately, I hear that there is also a ceramic version that yellow/gold in color, but the also cost in the $180-200plus range.

Hope this helps.

PS

If you still riding your altamira there is a new forum that started recently...
Fuji Altamira fans out there?


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## Rmabus

This whole BB standard is really frustrating. I just ordered a crankset for my sons fuji cross bike, which will be a gxp crank. Fortunately the shop employee was smart enough to ask about the BB, but I was sweating bullets that I had just donated a bunch of money to a shop.

Maybe we can start a revolt so frame builders and component guys will get back on the same page with one "standard" BB.


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## Agent319

I'm with you. I'm also tired of all the different tire sizes on vehicles. 1 size for compact cars, 1 size for Midsize, 1 size for sedans, 1 size for SUV's. Simple eh?


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## ziscwg

Rmabus said:


> This whole BB standard is really frustrating. I just ordered a crankset for my sons fuji cross bike, which will be a gxp crank. Fortunately the shop employee was smart enough to ask about the BB, but I was sweating bullets that I had just donated a bunch of money to a shop.
> 
> Maybe we can start a revolt so frame builders and component guys will get back on the same page with one "standard" BB.


The problem is many think they can do it better. Shimano had their ext BB thing going with it's 24 mm spindle. I'm sure due to patent issues, SRAM had to tweak it and called it GXP. 

Cannondale tried to make the open standard with BB30. It kind of worked, but proved to be harder to mfg. 

Then, the spin off of bb30 was pf30.

we go on and on. It is a royal pain


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## Rmabus

I liked the external bearing system fine with the 24mm spindle. I vote we stay with that.


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