# Hub noise- White Industries new T11 hub



## Pegorider (Nov 2, 2008)

Does anyone have a sense of the relative loudness of the new White Industries T11 hub?

Is it louder, quieter, or the same as the H3?

-Steve, well aware of the subjective nature of any answers to his question, but heck, isn't that why we have the internet?


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## coachboyd (Jan 13, 2008)

Hub noise is adjustable. If you want loud hubs use a thinner grease or oil on the pawls. If you want to dampen the noise use a thicker grease and it will quiet down the noise when you're coasting. Always check to make sure the hubs can take the type of grease you are putting on them, but with the WI hubs they have a pretty solid pawl engagement system and the grease shouldn't make them stick at all.


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## jjcools (Jun 28, 2011)

A guy "reviewed" he new build by Zen and said his was dead silent. I can let you know Thursday. 

I know the h3s are more quiet than DT and the H11 are quieter from what I have heard.


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## rcb78 (Jun 15, 2008)

I've got a set and I wouldn't say 'dead silent'. I've had silent hubs, these make noise. However, they are quieter than other high end hubs and wheelsets. I'd say they're right in the middle of the road as far as noise goes. If I'm riding with my friend who's got DT240s, I can't hear mine over his.
It will make a bit more noise when he gets some miles on it.


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## Jay Strongbow (May 8, 2010)

"Is it louder, quieter, or the same as the H3?"

The internals are the same as the H3 so if they are not the exact same it can't be that much different (theoretically anyway).


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## Zen Cyclery (Mar 10, 2009)

It really depends what rim you build them up to. If your going with a shallower alloy hoop, then the T11 will be pretty darn quiet. Not totally silent, but relatively stealthy. If you lace it to a deeper section carbon rim however, it can be a bit louder. 
Overall, it is a relatively quiet hub I would say.


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## NWS Alpine (Mar 16, 2012)

It's much quieter than the novatec hubs I had. It's louder than the shimano hubs which almost everything is. With an alloy rim there is a decent noise off the bike but when on the bike it's not really heard. I really like the T11 hubs so far. They look awesome and roll smooth.


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## Tunnelrat81 (Mar 18, 2007)

Did the T11 completely replace/eliminate the beautiful polished Al H3 that we love so much, or will they still be offering it? Or is the T11 offered in polished finish?

Do they have a matching front hub?

*edit* I see that they offer a front T11, but the H2 is still pictured with no information given.

-Jeremy


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## valleycyclist (Nov 1, 2009)

Tunnelrat81 said:


> Did the T11 completely replace/eliminate the beautiful polished Al H3 that we love so much, or will they still be offering it? Or is the T11 offered in polished finish?
> 
> Do they have a matching front hub?
> 
> ...


The T11 hubset, is available in polished silver as well as black anodized. The black hubs have some silver highlights where the words are etched in the hubshell.


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## jpaschal01 (Jul 20, 2011)

My T11 hubs with Enve 45 rims are significantly louder than my Shimano 105 hubs with Kinlin XR270 rims. I would say that the T11's are a little quieter than the Zipp hubs, but they do catch people's attention as I come up behind them.


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## Zen Cyclery (Mar 10, 2009)

Tunnelrat81 said:


> Did the T11 completely replace/eliminate the beautiful polished Al H3 that we love so much, or will they still be offering it? Or is the T11 offered in polished finish?
> 
> Do they have a matching front hub?
> 
> ...


The T11 has entirely replaced the old H2/H3 set. It is a very similar hubset, with similar specs, except for the rear DS. That flange had to be moved in slightly for the 11 speed freehub body. As Ron said, it comes in a similar polished silver and a nice sleek black as well. 
Keep in mind, there is a T11 front and rear. They have matching etched logos that are absolutely gorgeous.


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## Tunnelrat81 (Mar 18, 2007)

Zen Cyclery said:


> The T11 has entirely replaced the old H2/H3 set. It is a very similar hubset, with similar specs, except for the rear DS. That flange had to be moved in slightly for the 11 speed freehub body. As Ron said, it comes in a similar polished silver and a nice sleek black as well.
> Keep in mind, there is a T11 front and rear. They have matching etched logos that are absolutely gorgeous.


Thank you for the explanation. Did they also move the NDS in a bit as well, or are we now looking at an even lower tension on the NDS than the H3 hubset? I think I wasn't much more than 50% NDS/DS tension. Makes for a great wheel as long as the NDS is tight enough, but if the balance shifts much further...?

They do look pretty, but I'm glad I nabbed the more curvy H2/H3 set before they were replaced. I may end up with a set of these too, if my wife ever let's me build her a new set. :thumbsup:

-Jeremy


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## Zen Cyclery (Mar 10, 2009)

Edited.


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## jjcools (Jun 28, 2011)

I just got my H11 laced to some wide Kinlins from Ron and they are dead silent compared to my DT. Now, that is just out of the box so I am sure the will get louder. 

I opted for the black and they look really nice.


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## rruff (Feb 28, 2006)

Zen Cyclery said:


> The NDS specifications are still the same as the H3.


Not so. The shell has the same dimensions... *both* flanges have moved at least 2mm to the left (ie towards the NDS) for Shimano. According to WI the spacing is the same as the H3 Campy was. I measured 15.5mm DS and 38.5mm NDS... which is pretty extreme. 

I was hoping to score some of the H3 S axles and spacers for people who aren't interested in S11, but was told that they stopped manufacturing them.


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## rruff (Feb 28, 2006)

coachboyd said:


> Hub noise is adjustable. If you want loud hubs use a thinner grease or oil on the pawls.


IME using thick grease to quiet a hub works great... for a few miles... only. 

The WI hubs definitely make a noise... a nice metallic buzz. The T11 is identical to the H3. If you don't like it, you can always keep pedaling...


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## Zen Cyclery (Mar 10, 2009)

Ron- Thanks for the clarification on that. I must have missed that info on the White Industries site when I was updating. I have a bunch in stock, but I haven't measured any yet.


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## FuelForThought (May 13, 2012)

rruff said:


> Not so. The shell has the same dimensions... *both* flanges have moved at least 2mm to the left (ie towards the NDS) for Shimano. According to WI the spacing is the same as the H3 Campy was. I measured 15.5mm DS and 38.5mm NDS... which is pretty extreme.


You can check my posts in this thread to see how bad the tension balance can get. Granted, there was some sloppiness involved from the part of the wheelbuilder but even after careful re-tensioning, the average NDS/DS ratio was 48%. That is with using heavier spokes on the DS and doing 2xDS/radialNDS. The tension balance with identical spokes and lacing patterns would be 42%.

I returned the wheels and will not be using T11 hubs for my own wheels. I bought some Fulcrum for the next few months until Alchemy releases the ORC-UL in Shimano 11 (summer 2013?).


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## rruff (Feb 28, 2006)

Though the T11 DS offset and tension ratio are less than ideal, they are the same as the H3 was with Campy. You should have been fine with that rim and those spokes. The Hed C2 is always straight and round IME. Sounds like you got a bad build... and everything went to hell from there.

BTW, the ORC-UL should be available a bit sooner than that...


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## Tunnelrat81 (Mar 18, 2007)

FuelForThought said:


> You can check my posts in this thread to see how bad the tension balance can get. Granted, there was some sloppiness involved from the part of the wheelbuilder but even after careful re-tensioning, the average NDS/DS ratio was 48%. That is with using heavier spokes on the DS and doing 2xDS/radialNDS. The tension balance with identical spokes and lacing patterns would be 42%.
> 
> I returned the wheels and will not be using T11 hubs for my own wheels. I bought some Fulcrum for the next few months until Alchemy releases the ORC-UL in Shimano 11 (summer 2013?).



48% is fine if the NDS is high enough to not go slack under normal impacts etc....If tension is maintained (which is the point of using thinner spokes...i.e. slightly more stretchy) then they probably will maintain tension during use, and the result is a rocking stiff wheel from the greater bracing angle. My H3 set has been perfect, and I didn't even downsize my NDS spokes, they're standard DT Swiss comp spokes 2.0-1.8-2.0. I wouldn't throw the baby out with the bath water on this one. 

This point, of course, also depends on a high quality (true) rim. If the rim is straight, and the build is done right (no high tension spokes compensating for low tension spokes etc.) then a strong wheel will result. But with even one spoke a bit too low, that one will likely become your 'problem spoke' for that wheel. 

I bet you'll see many other hub companies doing similar things as they also switch over to 11 speed. They can only do so much. Either the NDS tension ratio is low, or the flange spacing is adjusted in on the NDS as well, which will also adversely effect the wheel's stiffness/strength. We see the philosophy difference already between hubs like the DT Swiss 240 as compared to the WI H3 hub. As long as *adequate* tension is reachable on the NDS, you're better off with a lower ratio. But we may be getting to the limits of gear count on a 130mm OLD. 

-Jeremy


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## carlislegeorge (Mar 28, 2004)

If you do a youtube search for "bicycle hub noise comparison" you should be able to find a relatively recent post by fairwheelbikes that might help some....


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