# Unwanted attention.. some questions



## Gnarly 928 (Nov 19, 2005)

I waded through that original thread and that has to be a real drag, some of the boorish behaviour you ladies have to tolerate. My question is more related to 'friendly' attention and what you female rides think when someone rides up, going the same way, and maybe matches speeds to say hello. 

I find it really kinda puzzleing how to handle that when it happens and it happens more often lately. Me, I am OK with myself, happily married, been riding for many years, even back when every bicyclist waved at one another. I usually ride on country roads, mountain highways, or other wide open country, not in the city, so when I encounter another cyclist, male or female, alone or in a group, I think it's nice to be friendly, say hello. If it's windy or a really long distance to the next stopping spot, I sometimes offer my wheel, or to join forces..sometimes not, if the person is obviously not interested in company.

But I'd hate to come across as "hitting on" someone, or have them worry because I paid some attention. Then again, I don't care to have someone think I a being an arrogant dork, showing off by passing them and riding away, trying to look cool..

So, you gals..How does one go about not coming across like a rolling Casanova, and yet still be friendly? I've taken to just saying hello and then asking right out if the person would rather just ride alone, but that is pretty awkward, and I bet I sometimes hear an awkward answer from the other rider..When it's a guy, I don't feel too strange just hammering on by with a breif hello, but when it's a gal, I'd rather not have them think.."He's just blowing me off because I am a female cyclist.."

Just curious, I'm not going to stess out over being PC about it all. But I do try to learn, and if I can handle these encounters in a way that hasn't occured to me, being an old guy biker who still sometimes opens doors for females..Well, tell on, ladies..or guys..
Don Hanson


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## ericm979 (Jun 26, 2005)

I say "hi" or "how's it going" like I would to a guy. Every once in a while I get a look and get pointedly ignored in return. I don't let that bother me. It's not often and the women who do it are usually enough slower than me that they wouldn't have been able to hang in anyhow. For all I know they're not trying to deflect a pass (so to speak), they're mad that I'm faster than they are. Or they are having a bad day and don't want any company. Nothing wrong with that, it happens to all of us.

At least they don't do the thing some men around here do- ignore your greeting as you pass, then sit on your wheel.


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## il sogno (Jul 15, 2002)

Gnarly, sounds like your approach is just fine. Nothing wrong with a friendly "hi, howzit going". Offering a wheel is nice, though she may or may not be able to keep up with you. 

Just don't rub up against her, make cat calls, wolf whistles etc.


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## KenB (Jul 28, 2004)

For this to be a concern of mine I'd have to be able to catch the wimmens, but I'm too slow.


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## il sogno (Jul 15, 2002)

KenB said:


> For this to be a concern of mine I'd have to be able to catch the wimmens, but I'm too slow.


Don't worry Ken, you'll always have me yo-yo-ing off your wheel .


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## bigbill (Feb 15, 2005)

il sogno said:


> Gnarly, sounds like your approach is just fine. Nothing wrong with a friendly "hi, howzit going". Offering a wheel is nice, though she may or may not be able to keep up with you.
> 
> Just don't rub up against her, make cat calls, wolf whistles etc.



Note to self, don't rub up against women riders. Thanks Sonja. It all makes sense now.


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## il sogno (Jul 15, 2002)

bigbill said:


> Note to self, don't rub up against women riders. Thanks Sonja. It all makes sense now.


Bill, surely you've seen this thread o' mine.


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## bigbill (Feb 15, 2005)

il sogno said:


> Bill, surely you've seen this thread o' mine.


That is an interesting thread. Here is my observation of women riders. There are lots of fast men who are strong, can push themselves to the limit, but can't handle a bike for sh*t. The strong women riders are on average better bike handlers than their male counterparts. Maybe it is because to get that strong, they have done a lot of group rides with the men from the first group and learned to handle their bikes out of self preservation. But that is just my opinion. Others may vary.


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## Friction_Shifter (Feb 8, 2006)

just wear a ipod. that way you don't burn any bridges and leave all options open

but that is unsafe so I dunno


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## uzziefly (Jul 15, 2006)

Well I haven't met a lady rider on a bike since I have no idea when. But, the guys I see, well, we say hi and nod and that's about it. Sometimes we ride together and take turns pulling. 

But, if I meet a girl, I'd do the same, just say hi and if she looks like she wants to have a little chat, then yeah no harm. It'll make my ride more fun to have conversation anyway. If not, hey, I was riding alone in the first place.


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## Friction_Shifter (Feb 8, 2006)

what up teh con?


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## uzziefly (Jul 15, 2006)

Friction_Shifter said:


> what up teh con?



You HAD to say something didn't ya  

please speaka in a engish a yeah?


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## Gnarly 928 (Nov 19, 2005)

The riding I do, I don't usually have to worry about this often or daily. But, after reading that thread about you gals being hasseled so often, and being such a sensitive guy, I thought I would ask. I have encountered a few gals on the road that looked very "unsure" of me, and these, I wish I'd just rode on by like a 'city' bike rider, not bothered them by trying to say hello, or scared them..
If I pass any rider with ease, I usually just give a breif hello and keep on my way, but if I see we are on a similar pace and I am not out for some specific training, I sometimes like the company. Just didn't want to go through my bike life coming across as a 'boorish bothersome, etc etc" guy-rider who's ruining rides for some female riders.

Don Hanson

PS, someone responded off list with an observation that he often encountered riders who he caught, said hello to, got the cold stare in return and then they jumped on his wheel! Without a word, just sucked on...Often...I can't imagine behaviour like that..Unbelievable! Where does sh*t like that happen? I've seen that at some of the commercial Century rides, but never just on the road..Weird!...I think I would grab my brakes on some "Numb-Nutt" that did that to me...


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## Friction_Shifter (Feb 8, 2006)

I was referring to Connie, not Sonja


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## Friction_Shifter (Feb 8, 2006)

Hi Cindy


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## il sogno (Jul 15, 2002)

Gnarly 928 said:


> The riding I do, I don't usually have to worry about this often or daily. But, after reading that thread about you gals being hasseled so often, and being such a sensitive guy, I thought I would ask. I have encountered a few gals on the road that looked very "unsure" of me, and these, I wish I'd just rode on by like a 'city' bike rider, not bothered them by trying to say hello, or scared them..
> If I pass any rider with ease, I usually just give a breif hello and keep on my way, but if I see we are on a similar pace and I am not out for some specific training, I sometimes like the company. Just didn't want to go through my bike life coming across as a 'boorish bothersome, etc etc" guy-rider who's ruining rides for some female riders.
> 
> Don Hanson
> ...


For me it doesn't happen that much but when it does, it's a drag.


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## uzziefly (Jul 15, 2006)

il sogno said:


> For me it doesn't happen that much but when it does, it's a drag.



Well, you could always swerve from side to side and try and lose the guy and speed off if the road has no traffic...


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## vonteity (Feb 13, 2005)

il sogno said:


> Offering a wheel is nice, though she may or may not be able to keep up with you.


She might also drop your sorry ass just to prove a point.


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## vonteity (Feb 13, 2005)

Gnarly 928 said:


> I have encountered a few gals on the road that looked very "unsure" of me.


Maybe you're just ugly. :wink:


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## enki42ea (Apr 11, 2005)

ericm979 said:


> At least they don't do the thing some men around here do- ignore your greeting as you pass, then sit on your wheel.


You know that can be from being really out of breath so can't talk and wanting to draft to go faster.... not that I ever did that.


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## lonefrontranger (Feb 5, 2004)

okay there are a couple of things you can and can't do. obviously a lot of my context here applies to racers / team rides, but you can apply it to most situations outside of that, too.

first, when you're catching / passing another rider, and you're not winded, just say 'hi' and be polite. don't make a big deal out of it, be normal. I don't think it's creepy at all if a rider passes me with a polite 'hi' or 'good morning'. I don't even take it amiss if they look like they mean business and just blow by listening to their ipod. Probably doing a hard workout, more power to 'em. When I'm not focussed on a hard effort, i.e. just cruising along, I'm actually pretty polite - I wave or nod to anyone that makes eye contact or passes, or whom I pass. I usually try to say 'hi' to someone as I approach them from the rear, just so they realise there's someone back there. If they speed up, I let them go. It's not like it's a race, nor is it my place to interfere with their private headspace. 

Keep in mind that some road cyclists (of either gender) can be somewhat antisocial. Road cycling is kind of a loner's / introvert's sport, so please be somewhat forgiving to the misanthropes amongst us.

Context is important here. As you approach another rider, does it look like he/she's making a serious effort, or are they just calmly spinning along? If the former, don't take it personally if you're not acknowledged, and if the latter, it's certainly gracious to acknowledge another rider, but it shouldn't be expected. My grandma always told me: 'Worry about your own manners first, then let everyone else mind their own business'. 

WhatEVER you do, do not just chase down some chick and then hop on her wheel and sit back there staring at her ass. I can't explain how rude / creepy / not cool this is, especially if you don't say anything beforehand. Stalker much? Its basically about as rude as staring at a woman's boobs while you're talking to her. I mean think about it: what would your reaction be if some random dude on the street did this to your wife/girlfriend/daughter/sister/mom?

also, if you get passed by an obviously faster rider of _either_ gender, please don't take it personally if you get dropped. Unless you've paid money and pinned on a number, it's not a race and it's not about whether you can keep up, and believe it or not, nine times out of ten your frantic squirrelly haphazard efforts to catch back on and/or 'take a pull' are not appreciated. This isn't snobbery or a deliberate ego slam on you, it's simple self-preservation - most roadies I know just don't feel comfortable riding in close quarters with unknown quotients. 

Okay so for riders obviously going hard or doing an effort? Just let them be. I can't tell you how many times I've been in the middle of a hard interval session and had some sketchy doofus decide to play 'leapfrog' with me. Um. dude, chill out - this is not about dropping YOU, its about ME trying to complete my program. Ergo your lame attempt to give me a draft is absolutely the last thing I want.

Seriously: how would YOU feel if I just randomly walked up to you in the gym and started coaching you on that squat rack, hm? Exactly. Intervals are the worst for this because when I finish an effort, Mr. Clueless invariably thinks he's 'popped' me, when in reality I'm just sitting up for a recovery lap. Sometime in the next thirty seconds / two/five/whatever minutes I'm going to take off again, and then the chase is on...  Trust me, nothing makes you look more pathetic.

oh and never, never never EVER just randomly 'jump into' any women's team ride. I mean this goes for most grouprides, but it's especially not okay when guys do it to women's group or rides. When you see a bunch of riders with matching teamkit / helmets / bikes / shoes / etc... that's a pretty strong hint it's a team ride and almost always closed to outsiders. On my old women's racing team we had guys try to jump onto our line on several occasions. We always asked them (actually VERY politely, cos I never did the asking...) to please drop out of the paceline. and these dudes INVARIABLY got pissed?? I mean what the hell?!! This was on a CLOSED team ride - even well known and trusted bike racer SOs weren't invited on that ride, so why would we want some random squirrel barging in? Not only did we NOT want this sketchy unknown asshat sitting in the midst of our paceline, but it was usually a good bet we were discussing upcoming racing tactics, etc. So please. Just go away. I mean it's a good thing my more socially gracious teammates handled this, cos depending on my mood, once they started arguing I'd either have flicked them or told them to go die in a fire. 

The absolute kicker was the day some idiot down at Cherry Creek tried to _jump on the back of our team's motorpace line (get this!) ON AEROBARS_. My coach sorted him out in no time flat. Motorpacing means six riders going wheel-to-wheel single file at 30+ mph behind a motorcycle. I can't explain how dangerous and very not okay it is for somebody to just randomly jump into that. Not to mention this was a private, $50/hour coaching session!

Honestly despite all the ranting above, I've met a lot of cool people and had great random conversations with riders of all ages and descriptions out on the bike over the years. It just boils down to a little tact and understanding. Not everyone's always out for a serious hardcore training ride, and on some 4+ hour days, I've become part of entire ad hoc pacelines because we're all struggling into the same headwind or up the same neverending brutal climb, and misery does love company.

So to sum up: be polite, say 'hi' and beyond that, never assume. I don't think most women will think you're out of line for a simple friendly greeting, cos I know I sure don't and I'm (obviously) a crabby old bat. if they do take exception, well then that's their problem, not yours.


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## JayTee (Feb 3, 2004)

Great post, LFR. Worthy of being in the General forum, too IMO.


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## physasst (Oct 1, 2005)

*yeah*

I've never joined in on the womens group rides...it just seems rude. I've passed them a few times, and since I know several of them I'll say hi, and a quick how ya doing?..then I'm off, the last time a couple of the stronger female riders caught up to me and rode with me to the top of the hill chatting, then they stopped to wait for the rest of the wimmens, and I went on my way. Our sunday AM ride is a combined ride with the women's , men's and rec rider group...a little bit more relaxed...I like that ride...the scenery can be nice


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## 32and3cross (Feb 28, 2005)

bigbill said:


> That is an interesting thread. Here is my observation of women riders. There are lots of fast men who are strong, can push themselves to the limit, but can't handle a bike for sh*t. The strong women riders are on average better bike handlers than their male counterparts. Maybe it is because to get that strong, they have done a lot of group rides with the men from the first group and learned to handle their bikes out of self preservation. But that is just my opinion. Others may vary.


I would say you would get the exact opposite opion from my wife, who raced at the national level for a bit. She found there were tons of top women who could not handle their bikes at all. She thought it might be due to the fact the womens fields are in general smaller and esp in the case of newer riders they ofter were so dominate that they never really had to ride in the pack for long.


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## ericm979 (Jun 26, 2005)

Gnarly 928 said:


> PS, someone responded off list with an observation that he often encountered riders who he caught, said hello to, got the cold stare in return and then they jumped on his wheel! Without a word, just sucked on...Often...I can't imagine behaviour like that..Unbelievable! Where does sh*t like that happen? I've seen that at some of the commercial Century rides, but never just on the road..Weird!...I think I would grab my brakes on some "Numb-Nutt" that did that to me...


I'm in the bay area, and I see and get this done to me quite frequently. It's worst on foothill blvd, which is a handy road to get up the peninsula from the south bay. It's always guys. I think they see all these riders, they buy a bike and ride, but they don't know anyone in a club or do any real racing. They somehow get the idea that we're all out there racing random strangers and it's a cool thing to do. On the first sunny warm weekend morning it can get pretty bad. I probably get it more than some other racers since I always start out quickly from stops (making it appear that I'm "racing") and I am not that strong on level ground, so the freds can catch me.

I've had them "sprint" past me and then make a right at the next light so I wouldn't catch back up. Some of them will run red lights to keep ahead of me. These are probably the same lame-os who sit in on women so they can oogle their butts or attempt to join in on women's rides. Hey, maybe they're oogling _my_ butt!

As much as I'd sometimes like to take these dorks into the curb, I don't. They're not dorks on purpose; they just don't know any better. If it fits with my ride plans I may use a handly hill to humiliate them. If they try to block me from passing on the left (yes it's happened) I'll go up the gutter. As I've mellowed with old age I'm more likely to try to strike up a conversation with them. Sometimes I can educate 'em a little, by example.

That said I've met a lot of nice people, male and female, on the road. Sometimes we'll trade pulls without a word; other times we'll trade life stories. It's all good.


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## lonefrontranger (Feb 5, 2004)

*ditto*



ericm979 said:


> I'm in the bay area, and I see and get this done to me quite frequently. It's worst on foothill blvd, which is a handy road to get up the peninsula from the south bay. It's always guys. I think they see all these riders, they buy a bike and ride, but they don't know anyone in a club or do any real racing. They somehow get the idea that we're all out there racing random strangers and it's a cool thing to do. On the first sunny warm weekend morning it can get pretty bad.


substitute 'US 36 northbound' for 'foothill blvd' and you've got the Boulder area weekend warrior contingent summed up nicely. Yes to all the observations you made as well.

I've just learned to let it go. I'm a criterium sprinter who rides an 88" fixed gear as my daily commuter / errand bike... and I don't drive, so I'm on a bike pretty darn close to 365/year. what this translates to is that I can gap most roadies from a standing start, even if I don't intend to. A chick doing this to your average weekend warrior dude is like waving a red cape in front of a bull. If they're determined to chase, I just let 'em blow past. If they try to tag on and wheelsuck, and then act like a tool / antisocial, the shoulder on 36 is wide enough to pull a 'match swerve' on them, i.e. 2 hard pedalstrokes, swing out, then slow way down, like a trackie does in a match sprint. Once they've gone ahead, I let them roll away... generally just to pass 'em back on the next hill, and that's often enough to permanently drop them - ditto if there's any significant head/crosswind. they pretty much get the message after they've been dropped twice.

all that said, I'll never deliberately alienate riders because it's literally bad for business. a couple of the coaching clients I now have are products of chance meetups out on the road. Usually after we exchange greetings and random smalltalk about the weather, etc. I'll ask about their bike or vice versa, then they start asking questions, and then from there it's a natural progression.


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## lonefrontranger (Feb 5, 2004)

jtolleson said:


> Great post, LFR. Worthy of being in the General forum, too IMO.


thanks JT... I'm pretty sure tho that I've made this exact same lengthy post, and iterations thereof, at least a half dozen times to both General and the Racing boards. the _'Why Are Roadies So &%#@!! Unfriendly!!!1'_ thread gets trotted out at least 3-4 times per year, no? 

I mean the mods could do a FAQ thread for all the Top 100 RBR Greatest Cliches Of All Time and I think this one would be pretty close to the podium... right along with _Funk's Shaving Bible<sup>TM</sup>_ and the _'ZOMG!! I Must Find The Lightest Coolest __<small>[whatever]</small> To Ride Ten Miles On The Bikepath With'_ thread.

I don't think this phenomenon is entirely gender specific either. Certainly women have more at stake with riding alone, the odds don't favour us. And (not to insult the dudes reading this board) I've certainly encountered my share of _homosapiens_, subspecies: _mas porcinum_. Also, not to make raving generalities (heh) but I've been doing this for two decades and I'm pretty confident in saying that it's just a quirk of road riders / racers in general. Most high mileage roadies are antisocial to at least some degree... I mean they'd have to be, or they'd quit, find a different sport or go insane, right?


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## Spinfinity (Feb 3, 2004)

*Pass somebody while I'm breathing hard?*



lonefrontranger said:


> first, when you're catching / passing another rider, and you're not winded, just say 'hi' and be polite. don't make a big deal out of it,
> 
> I thought the proper thing to do is to ride like hell to catch up, roll along about 5 yards back until my breathing slows and then pass.
> 
> ...


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## MellowDramatic (Jun 8, 2006)

Not that it means much, but I'm quite young (19) and look younger (16 when my hair's short), so I tend to have an excuse if I'm blowing by someone. I usually assume they'll think I'm just out hammering away or at least too thickheaded and brash to say anything. If I don't at least acknowledge the rider, it's the former. In SW Michigan we cyclists generally acknowledge each other...there aren't too many of us, so generally you get a nod or a wave, even from guys in a paceline that's obviously working very hard.


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