# HELP!!! third tire blowout in a week - SPECIALIZED



## Pokey (Apr 15, 2006)

See my other thread for details on the other two blowouts:
http://forums.roadbikereview.com/showthread.php?p=2237184#post2237184

I thought it was me, but after another blowout today, it's Specialized

WARNING: SPECIALIAED TIRE + SPECIALIZED WHEEL + SPECIALIZED TUBE = possible D E A T H !!!!!

Specialized just needs to give up and stop beta-testing their products on the general public.

So I spent an hour last night taking things apart, inspecting the rims, rim strips, everything. Put is new pre-talc'd tubes, airing up a bit and letting the air out, squeeze the tire to make sure the tube is not pinched between the bead and sidewall (I knew i'd never do that anyway - I have been riding and wrenching on bikes for a decade now). everything looks fine so I pumped them up to 120 PSI.

Went out for a ride today at 8:30 AM. got about a half-mile and BAM! The fukcing thing just blows at again on the rear. So this is three blowouts in a week - first the the rear wheel, then the front, now the rear wheel again. I was going up a gentle 5% grade at the time at a very low speed (10 mph?)

After three times, it's not me, it's not the tubes, I doubt it's the tires bacause I rode the same tires for years on my old bike with never a problem (Mavic wheels), it's not heat-related because I had not even used the brakes on this 1/2 mile ride. It has to be the POS specialized Roval Roubaix 332 wheels. I think the Roval wheel diameter is too small and the bead of the tire is too loose around it. 

Specialized is not compatible with their own stuff. That's a sad thing since that is how they started their business. They put the components together they knew would work well. They cant even do that any more.

So this is what 5 grand buys you from Specialzed - incompatiblity headaches. Can't wait till my LBS opens at Noon - I am going to ***** them out good and make them fix this.

I know it won;t help the mattera any. They will likely have no idea what to do. "We'll call Specialized this week to see what they say." Maybe I'll hear back, maybe not!

I think I am just screwed. I can go plop down another grand of a real set of wheels (non-specialized).

I have no idea what to even ask for at this point. I might notify the Consumer Product Safety Commission too even though it probably won't make a difference there either.

I have lost ALL confidence in specialized wheels and tires at this point


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## vortechcoupe (Jun 6, 2006)

how much do you weigh? 120 psi is a bit much. I have (wife does) some american classics that will blow out at about that, 120-125. I think max is 125 on their site. Pump variations could be 5-10 psi.

Just read the linked thread, i'm not alone in a poss diagnosis.


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## Pokey (Apr 15, 2006)

vortechcoupe said:


> how much do you weigh? 120 psi is a bit much. I have (wife does) some american classics that will blow out at about that, 120-125. I think max is 125 on their site. Pump variations could be 5-10 psi.
> 
> Just read the linked thread, i'm not alone in a poss diagnosis.


I weigh 147. The pressure indicated on the tire sidewall says 125 PSI min, 135 PSI max.

I have checked the pressure with two pumps and find then to be within 6 PSI of each other.

Specialized does not list any max pressures for their Roval Roubaix wheels. I have certainly considered the possibility of these wheels having a maximum pressure ratings below those of the tires.

I never had trouble with these tires even at tires at 130 PSI (when I weighed 180lbs) on my mavic wheels (ksyrium Equipe). I even rode that combo more aggressively that I have so far on this bike.

I say that because there is one serious climb/descent that I did on my old bike a few times and have just not done it yet on the new bike (Montebello road). It is a 2200 foot climb in 5 miles. Good thing I have not done that yet on the new bike - I might be dead now.

There is no way that I pinched the tire between the rim/sidewall. And the mode of failure for all three blowouts has been the same.


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## barry1021 (Nov 27, 2005)

Did you check the tire really carefully for a really minute piece of metal or rock?


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## Pokey (Apr 15, 2006)

barry1021 said:


> Did you check the tire really carefully for a really minute piece of metal or rock?


Yes - I have checked them both (Has happened on front and rear now).

plus, the tubes get split down the side for about 12"!!

Not just a puncture.


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## Ronman (Feb 12, 2007)

You say you put in pre-talc'd tubes; have they all been the same brand? My LBS had a bad run of tubes (same brand, same series) that were splitting at the seams. Another batch had no issues. If this is the case, try another brand of tube. 
Is the tire coming loose/unseated when the tube blows? 
120 psi should not be the issue.


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## il sogno (Jul 15, 2002)

I use Specialized tubes (Continental tubes too) and I never inflate them much over 100 psi. Try inflating them to 110 psi. This might help. 

Or as Ronman says, your LBS might have gotten a bad run of tubes. Try another brand.


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## vortechcoupe (Jun 6, 2006)

regardless of if it caused the blowout 120 is too high for your weight. try 100 frt, 110 rear and some better tires, conti, mich, vittoria (my fave) etc..


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## Pokey (Apr 15, 2006)

Ronman said:


> You say you put in pre-talc'd tubes; have they all been the same brand? My LBS had a bad run of tubes (same brand, same series) that were splitting at the seams. Another batch had no issues. If this is the case, try another brand of tube.
> Is the tire coming loose/unseated when the tube blows?
> 120 psi should not be the issue.


First two were cheng shin OEM, Third was a specialized pre-talc'd turbo.

They don't split at the seam.

Yeah, the bead is off the rim when it blows.


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## loubnc (May 8, 2008)

I also had several blown tubes with s-works tires and Specialized tubes. That is until i switched to Conti tubes.:thumbsup: Same tires, no more problems after 1000 or so miles.

I have come to the understanding that the Specialized "black-box" tubes are pretty much crap. Who knows? Bad quality control maybe?


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## jmlapoint (Sep 4, 2008)

IMO:
The tire should NOT blow off at 120 psi no matter what you weigh.
The only time I've had a tube 'blow-up' as you describe was after a rim failure and after a faulty installation where tube gets caught between rim and tire.
After I install a tube, I always push the tire away from the rim and go all the way around looking for displaced tube before I inflate. Then I inflate to about 40 psi and again look for displaced tube and check to see if tire bead is even. If the bead is tucked under the rim a little, you can push it out even with your thumbs at this low pressure. Only then do I inflate completely.
I weigh 180 pounds and for a 15% tire drop I ride 110 Psi rear, and 100 Psi front on 700x23 clincher Tires.

LINK TO TIRE DROP ARTICLE


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## Mike T. (Feb 3, 2004)

I can't imagine why you want 120psi in your tires. Try 100psi and get some comfort. Better still, get some 25mm tires and air 'em to 90-95. Ahhhh that's much better - and no loss of speed either. 120 - I use that in my track Supersonic clinchers where the conditions are always dead smooth.


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## foz (Sep 30, 2004)

I agree with jmlapoint - there's no way the tyre, tube, or even wheel for that matter should blow out or fail at 120psi. It's probably too much pressure for your case, but well within the usage range. If a tyre has a max pressure of 135, it doesn't mean it'll blow at 136psi... there's a factor of safety built into everything. It could be that as you say the rim is on the small side and the tyre on the large side, but as long as they are within the accepted limits for rim and tyre size then there should be no problem.

Have you checked the rimtape for damage? burrs around the valve hole? is the rim joint smooth?

Have all three tubes blown at the same place relative to the valve? maybe there's something in the tyre or rim...

I think the cause is more likely to be a fault somewhere, either with the parts or with the installation. Without calling you a bad mechanic, I know people who have been working with bikes for twice what you say you have, and they still do some stupid things sometimes....


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## Mike T. (Feb 3, 2004)

foz said:


> I know people who have been working with bikes for twice what you say you have, and they still do some stupid things sometimes....


Make that 5x as long and I'll nod my head.


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## barry1021 (Nov 27, 2005)

foz said:


> I agree with jmlapoint - there's no way the tyre, tube, or even wheel for that matter should blow out or fail at 120psi. It's probably too much pressure for your case, but well within the usage range. If a tyre has a max pressure of 135, it doesn't mean it'll blow at 136psi... there's a factor of safety built into everything. It could be that as you say the rim is on the small side and the tyre on the large side, but as long as they are within the accepted limits for rim and tyre size then there should be no problem.
> 
> Have you checked the rimtape for damage? burrs around the valve hole? is the rim joint smooth?
> 
> ...


I don't think it s the tubes, I think it has something to do with the tire seating properly. THe tire is coming off the rim and the tube is expanding thru and blowing, not the other way around. That's why the tear in the tube is so big.I would try a completely different brand of tire first. If it still blows, mark the tire and the rim where it happened, move the tire 180 degtrees when you replace the tube. My bet would be it blows at the same spot on the rim.

b21


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## roadbike_moron (Sep 22, 2007)

I also have had three blow out using Specialized tube and Mono S-Works clincher on a Shimano Ultegra wheel set. Luckily, all three times, the bike was standing still. This was when I used to pump the front to 110 psi and rear at 120 psi.

Now I keep the rear at no more than 100pis and front at around 90 - problem gone.


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## jmlapoint (Sep 4, 2008)

Had a FLAT today.
Learned a few lessons.
I was using a light rear tube (Vitt EVO 55G) and a previous Park Tire Boot edge wore a hole in the Tube. You could see the Boot impression on the tube and hole right at the corner. The Park Boot had curled a little at the edge and I guess cut my tube.
*LESSON #1*:
-Boots are for emergencies and should be removed and/or tire replaced.
-When inspecting my wheel with the flat and tire removed, I noticed my Conti 16mm Rim Strip had shifted to the side exposing several spoke holes.
*LESSON #2*:
-Make sure you are using the correct size rim strip
-Make sure it fits snugly
-Check occasionally for shifting


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## bholwell (Jan 22, 2008)

barry1021 said:


> The tire is coming off the rim and the tube is expanding thru and blowing, not the other way around. That's why the tear in the tube is so big.
> 
> b21


Barry is right- the tire is blowing off the rim. Once that happens, the tube rapidly expands causing it to rupture. 

A tire that blows off the rim should NEVER be used again. There's a good chance that the bead is either damaged or out of spec (i.e. too large). Toss the tires, and you won't continue to have this problem. I hear Specialized has a pretty good return policy on these tires.


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## Spunout (Aug 12, 2002)

Agree. If the bead blows off the rim, send the tires back as the bead is too large and not tight enough.

test this at home: Pump the suckers up to 160 psi and see if it blows. If it is going to hold at 100, it will hold at 160. Plug your ears...


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## Kerry Irons (Feb 25, 2002)

*Falsehood*



bholwell said:


> A tire that blows off the rim should NEVER be used again.


This is just not true. If a tire repeatedly blows off the rim, then it is likely trashed, but many people have had the blow-off experience and used the tire again with no issues. When the tube escapes and explodes, that often involves the tire coming off as well, but the failure is an install problem, not a tire problem.


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## bholwell (Jan 22, 2008)

Kerry Irons said:


> This is just not true. If a tire repeatedly blows off the rim, then it is likely trashed, but many people have had the blow-off experience and used the tire again with no issues. When the tube escapes and explodes, that often involves the tire coming off as well, but the failure is an install problem, not a tire problem.


I suppose you're right: if the tire/tube was incorrectly installed resulting in a blowout, and if the resultant blowout didn't damage the bead, then there's no problem in continuing to use the tire.

So how can you tell with no uncertainty that the bead isn't stretched or damaged? Take it up to 160 psi while wearing ear and eye protection? That might tell you if it is damaged, but then again such a test might not tell you if it isn't damaged. It's a static test in which the tube/tire assembly is a pressure vessel with a uniform pressure distribution and no external forces. In a real world application there is also an applied load, cornering and braking forces, and shocks from road irregularities.


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## jmlapoint (Sep 4, 2008)

Kerry Irons said:


> This is just not true. If a tire repeatedly blows off the rim, then it is likely trashed, but many people have had the blow-off experience and used the tire again with no issues. When the tube escapes and explodes, that often involves the tire coming off as well, but the failure is an install problem, not a tire problem.


How can you say for sure it is an install problem.
Can't the Tire/Tube be installed perfectly and still Blow off?
Aren't there other reasons that also could explain a Tire/Tube Explosion?
Just asking for my own benefit.
Thanks.


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## danl1 (Jul 23, 2005)

One spot to look: Rim Strips. Take those off, tie them to a stake, and burn them. Then get real rim tape (velox) of the proper size and proceed.

Rim strips have an annoying tendency to move around when the tires are being installed. Especially when an experienced mechanic rolls a tire on quickly - the shifting of 'slack' getting the tire on can make the strip slip and slide. If it gets up under the hook, it can keep the tire from hooking up well. If the strips have ever been removed from the wheel, they're especially slack and ready to move.

Can also expose spoke hole edges, etc., but that doesn't cause a blowout, just a flat.

Not saying it couldn't also be a product problem, but you'd have likely noticed a defect sufficient to do what you describe.


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## barry1021 (Nov 27, 2005)

Kerry Irons said:


> This is just not true. If a tire repeatedly blows off the rim, then it is likely trashed, but many people have had the blow-off experience and used the tire again with no issues. When the tube escapes and explodes, that often involves the tire coming off as well, but the failure is an install problem, not a tire problem.


True, in this case OP is an experienced wrench that has had it happen 3 times in a row, so I think bad install can be eliminated..


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## frdfandc (Nov 27, 2007)

barry1021 said:


> True, in this case OP is an experienced wrench that has had it happen 3 times in a row, so I think bad install can be eliminated..




You can never eliminate a bad install. It happens to the everyone at least once or twice. Its just part of cycling.

But I've also had brand new bikes have tubes pop while still on the racks at the store I work at. I've also had brand new tubes pop while airing them up to the proper pressure. 


It could be anything.


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## Kerry Irons (Feb 25, 2002)

*For certain sure*



jmlapoint said:


> How can you say for sure it is an install problem.
> Can't the Tire/Tube be installed perfectly and still Blow off?
> Aren't there other reasons that also could explain a Tire/Tube Explosion?
> Just asking for my own benefit.


In practice, all you can do is be sure to do a careful install (seeing that the tube is fully "inside" the tire before pumping). If you still get a blowoff after that, then it's time for a close visual inspection of the tire AND the rim. A bowed rim sidewall (for example) would allow a good tire to come off under pressure.

Experiments have been done where the tire bead was cut repeatedly around the circumfrence and the hook bead STILL held it on the rim at high pressures. The tire would need to have something seriously wrong with it such that it wouldn't hold, and you most likely could see the problem by checking things carefully.


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## Pokey (Apr 15, 2006)

barry1021 said:


> True, in this case OP is an experienced wrench that has had it happen 3 times in a row, so I think bad install can be eliminated..


Thanks for backing me up. I could accept one install error - maybe even two, but three? Within two weeks of putting the Mondo S-works clincher tires on my new Roval Roubaix rims?

Quite a coincidence there. 

I did run these same physical Mondo S-works clinchers on my 09 Mavic equipe rims. I wonder if the tire beads took the shape of those mavic rim bead-hooks and when I moved them to my new bike/wheels maybe the Bead was not the right shape any longer.

I did check the rims for damage and they are ruler straight with zero wobble or hop.

It's all crazy, I know. but True.

As an update, the LBS gave me new tires straight away. They offered the same tire, but I said "no, thanks". I went with a Mondo Pro-II this time around instead of the s-works. Someone said to try a different brand of tire altogether, but I think these are different enough. None of these companys make their own tires anyway (Maybe Michelin and Vittoria), but most of the other are white-labeled products. Mondo s-works clinchers are made in France with 127 TPI and actually measure 24.5 versus the 23 that they are labeled as. The Mondo Pro-II is a completely different casing with a more substantial bead (hmm?), 120 TPI, Made in Taiwan, and actually measure true to size (23cm)

I mentioned to the LBS owner that I had lost confidence in the rims too and he offered to warranty the entire wheelset through specialized (I have bought about 4 high-end bikes from this shop and this is the only problem I have had) So I took him up on the offer. Specialized will be sending me new wheels of the same type.

For now, the pro-II tires are on my back-up rims (09 Mavic Equipes) that I picked up cheap as a new take-off. Been on a few good hard rides with steep, technical descents and no tires blowing off the rims.

But now I realize how nice the Roval Roubaix 322 Wheelset is. They are noticeably more compliant over the rough stuff. These Mavic Equipe are very stiff and ride more rough. The top of Tunitas creek road (SF Bay Area) just beat me up with these mavics - same with Montebello road. The Rovals definitely take the edge off as advertised

I want my compliant wheels back already - I miss them  

The Roval 322's also accelerate more quickly than these Mavics. 

Mavics are 1770 grams and the rovals are 1550. Not sure if that's a big difference and not sure where the weight savings is (Rims or hubs)


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## vortechcoupe (Jun 6, 2006)

"I want my compliant wheels back already - I miss them "

So what tire pressure are you now running?


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## Pokey (Apr 15, 2006)

vortechcoupe said:


> "I want my compliant wheels back already - I miss them "
> 
> So what tire pressure are you now running?


Heh - well.... I took a plunge and aired down from 120 PSI to 115 PSI. Hah. But I will experiment with presures one of these days. Some folks suggested 90-100 PSI at my weight so I'll give that a try too. For now, I am training for the MArinCentury in two weeks and then I might do the Levi Granfondo. Although there are no Granfondo slots left so I'll have to do mediofondo if anything.

Although surely that would help with compliance


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## emartin (Mar 11, 2009)

I really don't understand the fear to put more than 100 psi in tires. I run a average of 10 000km a year for the last 15 years, with 120 psi, and never had a blowout! And I weight 163 pounds.


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## vortechcoupe (Jun 6, 2006)

i don't think there is much fear in going over 100, it just might not be the fastest and most comfortable thing to do. Higher pressure doesn't always mean lower rolling resistance/faster.


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## emartin (Mar 11, 2009)

vortechcoupe said:


> i don't think there is much fear in going over 100, it just might not be the fastest and most comfortable thing to do. Higher pressure doesn't always mean lower rolling resistance/faster.


Beleive me, I'm faster with 120psi than 100psi...otherwise explain me the physic that could explain a faster ride with lower psi.


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## Spunout (Aug 12, 2002)

Look it up. 

A tire conforms over bumpy pavement (even smooth pavement has surface variation). Higher pressure means it moves the bicycle up and down instead of the tire, this absorbs energy which could be used to move the bicycle forward. 

If you have lower pressure, the tire absorbs the bumps and the bicycle stays smooth, conserving momentum and moving forward better.


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## DrSmile (Jul 22, 2006)

The whole reason for a pneumatic tire is so that it can absorb imperfections in the road surface over the whole tire area and return the energy efficiently. If you have ever run a shopping cart over an obstacle you've discovered how inefficient solid wheels can be. A pneumatic tire needs to have less inflation pressure in order to deform the tire and not displace the bike and rider in an up and then down direction.

+1 on checking the strips if you get repeated pinch flats. Some strips are perfectly fine (Conti strips for example) because they are fairly flexible. The problem ones are the strips that feel like a piece of wrapping ribbon.


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## vortechcoupe (Jun 6, 2006)

emartin said:


> Beleive me, I'm faster with 120psi than 100psi...otherwise explain me the physic that could explain a faster ride with lower psi.


You mean you fell faster with 120 psi. Or have you done test with wattage output, distance, speed etc...?

Feels faster because your feeling all the little road imperfections, like others have said tire needs to absorb the little bumps.

You run 120 front and rear? At least try a little lower in the front, maybe 100 front and 110 in rear.


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## 5500OCLV (Jul 11, 2009)

Have you tried pushing up on your stem when installing the second bead side past the area where the stem is? Not doing that resulted in two blowouts for me that blew the tire off the rim. Those rims were narrower than normal though.


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## emartin (Mar 11, 2009)

vortechcoupe said:


> You mean you fell faster with 120 psi. Or have you done test with wattage output, distance, speed etc...?
> 
> Feels faster because your feeling all the little road imperfections, like others have said tire needs to absorb the little bumps.
> 
> You run 120 front and rear? At least try a little lower in the front, maybe 100 front and 110 in rear.


Maybe you're right but I don't see your point. When I'm of the saddle for climbing or sprinting, I can clearly see a 100 psi tire absorb energy and yes it feel slower. I didn't do test and I'm not a pump freak but with more than a decade of racing I can say that for me 120 psi feel alot better than 100 psi. BTW, What can you say about tubulars tires with more than 140 psi?


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## SwiftSolo (Jun 7, 2008)

Pokey said:


> See my other thread for details on the other two blowouts:
> http://forums.roadbikereview.com/showthread.php?p=2237184#post2237184
> 
> I thought it was me, but after another blowout today, it's Specialized
> ...


While I'm not impressed with your approach, I will tell you that I was riding with a guy on this years tarmac two weeks ago and while stopped at a park entrance, his rear tire exploded like a gun shot (tire came off the rim). This was the second time it had happened to him. I'm not cetain who's wheels were on his bike.

This is a serious matter. If it happens on the front wheel of a fast winding decent in the mountains there can be a big price to pay. 

Specailized is a great company and I think you should give them a chance before go'n postal. Incidentally, the worst fall I've taken in many years of mountain and road riding occured on a slight downhill high-speed curve when the front tire/tube exploded. Leads to a broken helmet, lots of road rash and, if you're lucky, minimal broken bones and bike parts. Mine happened on some Mavic ksyriums.


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## Kerry Irons (Feb 25, 2002)

*Feelings*



emartin said:


> Maybe you're right but I don't see your point. When I'm of the saddle for climbing or sprinting, I can clearly see a 100 psi tire absorb energy and yes it feel slower. I didn't do test and I'm not a pump freak but with more than a decade of racing I can say that for me 120 psi feel alot better than 100 psi. BTW, What can you say about tubulars tires with more than 140 psi?


You don't understand the point. If the tires are too hard, then the energy from "bouncing" off road surface roughness is transmitted to your body and lost. If the tire casing can deflect to absorb that roughness, then much less energy is lost. Pressures above 110 psi (8 bar) do not reduce rolling resistance except on the smoothest road surfaces. This has been demonstrated.

As to your feelings, indepedent testing reported by both MAVIC and Bicycle Quarterly magazine show that riders are NOT able to tell, by feel, which wheels are stiffer or which tires are faster. Until you have demonstrated with careful testing and measurements, your feelings are best kept to the sentiments of greeting cards.


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## emartin (Mar 11, 2009)

Kerry Irons said:


> You don't understand the point. If the tires are too hard, then the energy from "bouncing" off road surface roughness is transmitted to your body and lost. If the tire casing can deflect to absorb that roughness, then much less energy is lost. Pressures above 110 psi (8 bar) do not reduce rolling resistance except on the smoothest road surfaces. This has been demonstrated.
> 
> As to your feelings, indepedent testing reported by both MAVIC and Bicycle Quarterly magazine show that riders are NOT able to tell, by feel, which wheels are stiffer or which tires are faster. Until you have demonstrated with careful testing and measurements, your feelings are best kept to the sentiments of greeting cards.


I admit that you are probably right...all those testing and measurements are hard to contest but I'll still ride and race with 120 psi. IMO my sensation on the bike are more important than magazine testing.


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## Spunout (Aug 12, 2002)

emartin said:


> IMO my sensation on the bike are more important than magazine testing.


You still do not understand.


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## roadbike_moron (Sep 22, 2007)

SwiftSolo said:


> While I'm not impressed with your approach, I will tell you that I was riding with a guy on this years tarmac two weeks ago and while stopped at a park entrance, his rear tire exploded like a gun shot (tire came off the rim). This was the second time it had happened to him. I'm not cetain who's wheels were on his bike.
> 
> This is a serious matter. If it happens on the front wheel of a fast winding decent in the mountains there can be a big price to pay.
> 
> Specailized is a great company and I think you should give them a chance before go'n postal. Incidentally, the worst fall I've taken in many years of mountain and road riding occured on a slight downhill high-speed curve when the front tire/tube exploded. Leads to a broken helmet, lots of road rash and, if you're lucky, minimal broken bones and bike parts. Mine happened on some Mavic ksyriums.



Ok...my turn.

I had four (4) blow-outs with my Specialized Modo S-Works + Specialized tube. The first 3 times, the bike was standing still. Yesterday's blow-out was during the descent of a short roller. I was probably going 30 mph or less. Luckily, I managed to bring the bike to control stop. My buddy told me I was fish tailing all over the place, and I felt it too. I was just glad I didn't crash.

Some people will say it's a bad tube installation, but I definitely say it was not caused by an incompetent tube install. In fact, I've been on this same tube for over 600 miles. I think part of the cause may have been attributed to the high pressure I was running. When I first got the tire, I ran it at 120 psi because the 115 psi is the recommended minimum. Another contributing factor is that my hand pump was off my +12psi. I confirmed this error using another pump and a digital gauge. 

I never had problem when I ran the tire at 100 psi (112 psi if accounted for the error of my pump). It's only when I go higher, say 115 or above when the blow-outs have occurred. 

Also, my tire has fewer 800 miles, and I noticed the side wall is beginning to separate from the bead. I not sure if it's a defect or cuased as a result of rolling on a blow-out tire. I really like the ride quality of the Modo, but I'm having some serious reservation about this trie after yesterday's blow-out.


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## roadbike_moron (Sep 22, 2007)

barry1021 said:


> I don't think it s the tubes, I think it has something to do with the tire seating properly. THe tire is coming off the rim and the tube is expanding thru and blowing, not the other way around. That's why the tear in the tube is so big.I would try a completely different brand of tire first. If it still blows, mark the tire and the rim where it happened, move the tire 180 degtrees when you replace the tube. My bet would be it blows at the same spot on the rim.
> 
> b21



Barry,

I think you could be on to something. The modo S-works tires mounts easily onto my Ultegra wheels without any struggle. Normally, I have a fight the tire to get it to mount.


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## Pokey (Apr 15, 2006)

Guys, please report these issues to the Consumer Product Safety Commission.

I filed a report, but the shop offered to warranty my tires. Not expecting to hear back from the CPSC, I traded in the offenting tires on some new Mondo Pro 2's. A CPSC investigator contacted me a week later.

I spoke with him, but did not have the evidence required to go very far.

*Please retain your tires and file a complaint*. They will contact you. I may contact my investigator and have him contact an investigator in your area to speak with you if that's ok.

I was waiting to see if specialized was going to upgrade the Mondo S-Works with a series 2 version, but I see they are still pushing this tire with OEM bike builds in 2010.

We need to do something before someone gets hurt.

[Edit] Roadbike_moron, my tubes look exactly like yours. I have three of those. How old are the tires you are running? My S-Works mondo tires also fit very loosely on the rim. i don't know how specialized expects them to stay on the rim.

I tried calling specialized customer support and the guy on the phone was almost arrogant about this issue and denied ever hearing about any problems with these tires - part of why I decided to contact the CPSC. The [Specialized] rep was not concerned at all. Sounded more annoyed than anything. The CPSC investigator was VERY concerned.

I also loved the way these rode, but I knew these tires would seriously injur or kill me.

For those that suggest a different brand, I think the made-in-china Mondo Pro 2's are different enough than the Made-in-France Mondo S-works. They are much more difficult to fit to my rims. I think the beads on the Mondo S-Works tires are just too loose and not strong enough


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## Pokey (Apr 15, 2006)

SwiftSolo said:


> This is a serious matter. If it happens on the front wheel of a fast winding decent in the mountains there can be a big price to pay.
> 
> Specailized is a great company and I think you should give them a chance before go'n postal.


I have been a Specialized fan for many years now. I have owned:

2000 Specialized Enduro Pro
2004 S-Works Enduro (Wife riding it now)
2007 S-Works Enduro (My current MTB)

2005 Roubaix Comp (Sold it and miss is)
2006 Roubaix Comp (Wife's road bike)
2009 Roubaix Pro D/A (Current road bike)

So I really like their products, service, and Warranty terms. But the "I don't give a crap" atttude when calling to complain and inquire about the tire issues I was having really frustrated me. Now that I see someone else having the same issues I did with the same tires, I think it's time to act before someone gets seriusly hurt.


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## Pokey (Apr 15, 2006)

And just to update the thread, I am still on The Specialized Roval Roubaix 322x wheels, but I am using the Mondo Pro2 tires now. The tire does not feel as nice as the Mondo S-works, but at least it stays on the rim.

I actually REALLY like the Roval Roubaix wheels. Fairly light and they are noticeably more compliant than my 09-spec Mavic Equipe wheels. I wanted to not like the Roval wheels so I could buy new ones, but I'll just ride these. Also the drive efficiency is really good - these wheels accelerate very well.

I think the blow-out issue is with the Mondo s-works tires at this point.


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## roadbike_moron (Sep 22, 2007)

Pokey said:


> Now that I see someone else having the same issues I did with the same tires, I think it's time to act before someone gets seriusly hurt.


I followed Pokey's lead by filing a report with the U.S Consumer Product Safety Commission. I also left a message with the Product Manger of Speicalized Tire Division. 
This matter needs to be looked into before someone gets seriouly hurt.


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## bholwell (Jan 22, 2008)

roadbike_moron said:


> I had four (4) blow-outs with my Specialized Modo S-Works + Specialized tube.


Did all 4 blow-outs occur using the same tire each time?


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## California L33 (Jan 20, 2006)

roadbike_moron said:


> Ok...my turn.
> 
> I had four (4) blow-outs with my Specialized Modo S-Works + Specialized tube. The first 3 times, the bike was standing still. Yesterday's blow-out was during the descent of a short roller. I was probably going 30 mph or less. Luckily, I managed to bring the bike to control stop. My buddy told me I was fish tailing all over the place, and I felt it too. I was just glad I didn't crash.
> 
> ...


Hate to say it again, but bad install. I'm guessing every one of these from the OP on down was caused by a small bit of tube getting pinched between the rim and tire. You have to check this when the tire is installed. Before inflating, make sure the tube is up inside the tire all the way around. After you start inflating, before it's hard, push the tire in, away from the rim towards the opposite side and look down- make sure there no tube is showing and go all the way around. If you see any tube doing that, it will seat between the rim and the tire and eventually cause a blow out. 

The only way a tube will 'blow' is if the tire is off the rim and it has space to expand, otherwise it will be pressed up against the rim/tire and leak if punctured- that's why you never get a 'blow out' with a thorn or small piece of glass. Your experience of 3 happening when standing still is quite indicative of bad installs. If you had 600 miles without taking the tire on/off, that's a bit more puzzling, but the tube tearing like that does suggest a 'balloon pop'- tire not on rim when it happened. 

I weight 200 lbs. I run 120 psi on the back, 100-110 on the front- no problems on a variety of tubes, tires, wheels, (never exceeded recommendations) including Specialized. My only blow out was when I pinched a tube on a bad install. It's awfully hard for a hook rim bead to come off a wheel under pressure- the greater the pressure the harder it's held to the wheel. The max. pressure ratings are for the rim, so that too much pressure doesn't fatigue it and cause it to fail.


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## roadbike_moron (Sep 22, 2007)

bholwell said:


> Did all 4 blow-outs occur using the same tire each time?


No. Three times on the rear and once in the front.


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## roadbike_moron (Sep 22, 2007)

California L33 said:


> Hate to say it again, but bad install. I'm guessing every one of these from the OP on down was caused by a small bit of tube getting pinched between the rim and tire. You have to check this when the tire is installed. Before inflating, make sure the tube is up inside the tire all the way around. After you start inflating, before it's hard, push the tire in, away from the rim towards the opposite side and look down- make sure there no tube is showing and go all the way around. If you see any tube doing that, it will seat between the rim and the tire and eventually cause a blow out.
> 
> The only way a tube will 'blow' is if the tire is off the rim and it has space to expand, otherwise it will be pressed up against the rim/tire and leak if punctured- that's why you never get a 'blow out' with a thorn or small piece of glass. Your experience of 3 happening when standing still is quite indicative of bad installs. If you had 600 miles without taking the tire on/off, that's a bit more puzzling, but the tube tearing like that does suggest a 'balloon pop'- tire not on rim when it happened.
> 
> I weight 200 lbs. I run 120 psi on the back, 100-110 on the front- no problems on a variety of tubes, tires, wheels, (never exceeded recommendations) including Specialized. My only blow out was when I pinched a tube on a bad install. It's awfully hard for a hook rim bead to come off a wheel under pressure- the greater the pressure the harder it's held to the wheel. The max. pressure ratings are for the rim, so that too much pressure doesn't fatigue it and cause it to fail.


California L33,

I use your exact technique when ever I install a new tube, but let's assume you're correct and it was a bad install.

Here are the facts: 

1st blow-out - Tires were brand new and installed by bike shop #1. I'm certain the old inner tubes were re-used. 

2nd blow-out - I installed the tube.

3rd blow-out Replaced tube and change rim tape to Velox by bike shop #2. Shop mechanic checked the rim and found it to be free of defect. He changed the rim tape as a precaution - note this was a completely different bike shop. 

4th blow-out - I installed the tube.

So! We have 3 individuals who installed tubes on my tire, and all three times, I have had a blow-out. Could this be a coincidence that all three installers, including two shop wrench, had installed the tubes incorrectly? Possibility but highly unlikely. 
Given this incident has happened to someone other than myself, I think there is a reasonable good chance I got a bad tire. Perhaps Specialized had a bad run from whomever they got the tire from.


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## roadbike_moron (Sep 22, 2007)

Pokey said:


> [Edit] Roadbike_moron, my tubes look exactly like yours. I have three of those. How old are the tires you are running? My S-Worns mondo tires also fit very loosely on the rim. i don't know how specialized expects them to stay on the rim.


Purchased 10/4/08 - still have the receipt, and tires were installed by the bike shop.
I wonder if I will hear back from the product manager from Specialized.
Oh well. I'll save the tube and tire for the CPSC should they want to look at it.


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## Lectron (May 29, 2005)

Tubular. How many flats in how many years U say?

I don't count course there's nothing to count.....:Yawn:


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## bholwell (Jan 22, 2008)

roadbike_moron said:


> No. Three times on the rear and once in the front.


So you've experience a total of 4 blow-offs on two different tires? It's still unclear how many separate tires you've had blow off your rims.

I've said it before in this thread and I'll say it again: Once a tire blows off a rim it should be considered unsafe and not used again. Unless you have a specific device that can accurately measure the circumference of the bead, you have no way to tell if the bead is damaged / stretched.

I can see in your second picture that the bead is definitely damaged (you can tell b/c the bead is "wavy"). I've also seen beads that are stretched to the point of being unsafe and still look perfectly fine.

The cause of you blow-offs is unknown at this point. It could be a bad install that caused the initial blow-off. The initial blow-off could have damaged the bead, and the damaged bead could be the reason for the subsequent blow-offs. Or, it's possible that the bead was manufactured larger than spec tolerances which resulted in the blow-offs.

BTW, your rim could be on the low-end of manufacturing tolerances (or even under) and could be playing a role in the blow-offs.


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## Pokey (Apr 15, 2006)

California L33 said:


> Hate to say it again, but bad install. I'm guessing every one of these from the OP on down was caused by a small bit of tube getting pinched between the rim and tire. You have to check this when the tire is installed. Before inflating, make sure the tube is up inside the tire all the way around. After you start inflating, before it's hard, push the tire in, away from the rim towards the opposite side and look down- make sure there no tube is showing and go all the way around. If you see any tube doing that, it will seat between the rim and the tire and eventually cause a blow out.


That's the same procedure I used. I have about 2 months and 900+ miles on the Mondo Pro-2 tires and no more blow-outs. My LBS asked specialized to warranty the wheels for me and they did. Probably was not necessary, but I had Zero confidence in those wheels.

I have seen the mode of failure on a tube that was pinched between the Tire and Rim (on a friend's bike) and this is clearly different. In this case, the tubes wind up getting split for about 12" down the side. During a tube-pinch pailure, you get the bang, but to a lesser extent and the Split int he tube is maybe an inch long. To have a 12" tear in the tube means the bead came off the rim FAST over a large area; like it popped completely off. When the tube gets pinched between the tire and rim you get the same popping sound, but the Split is not nearly that long and you can actually see a crease where the tube was pinched - at least for a while after it happens until the rubber tube gets it's shape back. I still have my three tubes that blew out. They look exactly like roadbike_moron's

Someone else mentioned over-stretching the bead. I can tell you the S-works mondo clincher tires fit so loosely, there is no stretching invoved with installation! I can install them with fingertips only!

I rode for three years on my 06 Roubaix with the Mondo S-works clincher tires on the Mavic Equippe wheels at 130 PSI and Specialized red-box turbo tubes and never had a problem. Loved the ride/feel/steering response/cornering grip of those tires.

When I got my 09 Roubaix Pro, it came with the All-condition Pro 2's. They seemed to roll a bit more slowly and did not carve corners as well so I removed the all-conditions and installed them on my old bike which I sold. I took the Mondo S-works clinchers from the Mavic wheels on my old bike and installed them on the new bike's Roval Roubaix 322x wheels. Then I had three blow-outs within a couple weeks. 

Then I got a new set of wheels from the LBS (same wheel model) and installed the Mondo Pro-2's and have had no problems since. Still on the specialized red-box turbo tubes. 

I am slowly getting my confidence back in the steep down-hills (19% downgrade!) and corners. Rode the Marin Century on the combo and will be riding the Levi's Leipheimer's King Ridge Gran Fondo on the same setup. Wish I had confidence in the Mondo S-works. I really liked that tire minus the blow-outs.

Maybe I'll try the Open Tubulars to see of they feel better then the Mondo Pro2s. The MP2 just feels a bit slower and is certainly a bit heavier, but it stays on the wheel.


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## California L33 (Jan 20, 2006)

roadbike_moron said:


> California L33,
> 
> I use your exact technique when ever I install a new tube, but let's assume you're correct and it was a bad install.
> 
> ...


Could the shop guys have installed them wrong, absolutely. I've seen mechanics at bike shops who don't know what they're doing. I've seen mechanics who work way too fast. 

Regardless, we're back to the problem of- in order for the tube to tear like that, the tube has to be in the atmosphere, otherwise you get a leak if there's a hole in it, not a blow out. I can't think of any other way for you to get a multi-inch rip in a tube. That leaves us with-

1- the tube is caught between the rim and tire and eventually forces the tire off or lets a 'bubble' come through and explode

2- the tire or rim is defective and for some reason the tire is coming off allowing the tube to pop out 

If you've got a '3' I'm all ears.


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