# Campa Super Record crank broken



## knakhemel

My Campagnolo Super record Ultra Torque broken into pieces.
The fixing bolt was assembled with the right amount of torque and the cups only by hand with loctite 222. Just like the manuals says.
Is this a well known problem with the Utra torque system? I have another bike with 10 speed Record and with the same Utra Torque system. No problem there.
But this. This baffles me.
Anyone?


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## campagnoloneutron

Not normal at all. I would certainly say this is an unusual situation. 

I can't tell from the photo but is this the new 2011 titanium version super record or the 2009-2010 super record? Either way, I would send it to Campagnolo for analysis and perhaps warranty. It does seem like there maybe is more to know of the situation. were you just riding along and it blew apart? ...was it just sitting there and broke or did you crash or did it break as it was being tightened? I know you say that it was tightened to specification but it really does looks suspect that it was severely overtightened inadvertently for it to break like that. Anyway I would contact them and send it in for inspection.


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## fabsroman

campagnoloneutron said:


> Not normal at all. I would certainly say this is an unusual situation.
> 
> I can't tell from the photo but is this the new 2011 titanium version super record or the 2009-2010 super record? Either way, I would send it to Campagnolo for analysis and perhaps warranty. It does seem like there maybe is more to know of the situation. were you just riding along and it blew apart? ...was it just sitting there and broke or did you crash or did it break as it was being tightened? I know you say that it was tightened to specification but it really does looks suspect that it was severely overtightened inadvertently for it to break like that. Anyway I would contact them and send it in for inspection.


Does the "Cult" on the side of the left crank arm mean it was a 2011 Super Record crank? I'm not positive. Maybe the Cult bearings were offered in 2009 and 2010 too. My last Record groupo was 2008.


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## knakhemel

It's the 2010 version Super Record with the white decals.
The only difference with the 2011 version is a titanium axle instead of last year’s steel axle.

When it happened I was riding on cobblestones but that shouldn't be a problem.
With this bike setup I never had any crash. The bike is a Colnago C50 with complete Super Record 2010 and mavic Ksyrium SL (the red version).
The center bolt was tightened with 40 nm (the manual says 42nm).
So definitely I will visit my LBS.
Luckily I have a second bike, so no timeout in trainingsessions.


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## knakhemel

Hey Fabsroman,

I see you have the same bike. C50 with ST01 colours. Nice!
And a real Colnago fan. Same here.
Normal households have a room for children. I have a room specially for my Colnago's.


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## kbwh

This is a first for me. Campagnolo should get the parts for investigation. Should be a warranty issue.

Please note that Campagnolo have released new instructions for assembling cups and crank. Worth noting is that they have abandoned Locktite 222 for synthetic grease, now have a recommended tightening torque for the cups, and also recommend to grease the hirth joint and central bolt before assembly.


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## campagnoloneutron

fabsroman said:


> Does the "Cult" on the side of the left crank arm mean it was a 2011 Super Record crank? I'm not positive. Maybe the Cult bearings were offered in 2009 and 2010 too. My last Record groupo was 2008.


The two 2011 Super Record versions/models are marked externally as per the attached photos. (the red central circle indicates the titanium axle/white central circle indicates the normal steel axle). The other difference is that the titanium version tightens counterclockwise the steel version the normal clockwise tightening. Prior to this year 2011, the SR only came with a steel axle. (see campagnolo reference document on the above - http://www.campagnolo.com/repository/documenti/en/warning_2011.pdf)

I was interested in whether it was a titanium or steel axle that failed. Failure either way is really bad news though!

...and as remarked by another viewer, I have always assembled these UT cranksets with a special copper impregnated assembly grease on both the cups and the central Hirth joint. Torqued the cups on too (hand tight for the cups NEVER sounded like a correct thing to do, campagnolo suggested or not) No problems ever, either assembling or disassembling. ...and hoping for none to come!


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## Pirx

I have never heard of anything like this happening, and I doubt that it would be possible to cause this kind of failure by any kind of installation error, either. You have a 4-year warranty on your components, and to me this looks like a very clear warranty issue. My money is on a material defect.


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## nayr497

Sorry, can't be of any help here besides to say good luck getting it sorted out.

1) That's a fine, fine looking bike!

2) How'd you get home?

3) Did the cranks come out of the BB shell and stay attached to your feet? Were you able to pedal to a stop? Just curious, hopefully you didn't go down.


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## Kristatos

If you bought the gruppo at your LBS then I'd take it there, but if you got it online from a dealer then they should be able to perform the warranty replacement. So far the only warranty issue I had was a broken shifter that failed out-of-the-box which is also very rare but less of an inconvenience than you suffered on the cobbles. Online dealer sent me a replacement no questions asked and a label to return the broken part. I doubt you'll have any trouble getting this replaced quickly.


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## Salsa_Lover

Very nice C-50 Erik, but well, looks better with the Ergosums, ( even though I prefer the Rotundo )


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## fabsroman

campagnoloneutron said:


> The two 2011 Super Record versions/models are marked externally as per the attached photos. (the red central circle indicates the titanium axle/white central circle indicates the normal steel axle). The other difference is that the titanium version tightens counterclockwise the steel version the normal clockwise tightening. Prior to this year 2011, the SR only came with a steel axle. (see campagnolo reference document on the above - http://www.campagnolo.com/repository/documenti/en/warning_2011.pdf)
> 
> I was interested in whether it was a titanium or steel axle that failed. Failure either way is really bad news though!
> 
> ...and as remarked by another viewer, I have always assembled these UT cranksets with a special copper impregnated assembly grease on both the cups and the central Hirth joint. Torqued the cups on too (hand tight for the cups NEVER sounded like a correct thing to do, campagnolo suggested or not) No problems ever, either assembling or disassembling. ...and hoping for none to come!


Yeah, I already knew about the red circle for a titanium axle versus the white circle. I just thought that the CULT ceramic bearings were first offered in 2011 Super Record, but it appears that I was incorrect. My memory is also coming back to me a bit right now and I think I remember that one of the big differences between Record and Super Record was the ceramic bearings.


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## fabsroman

knakhemel said:


> Hey Fabsroman,
> 
> I see you have the same bike. C50 with ST01 colours. Nice!
> And a real Colnago fan. Same here.
> Normal households have a room for children. I have a room specially for my Colnago's.


When I saw that pic, I thought I was looking at my bike for a second. Same goes for Salsa's C50 in ST01. You don't see many C50s in ST01 in the US. Here is a pic of mine right after I built it up. Since then, the steerer tube has been cut down some and the bars dropped. Probably going to drop the bars another 5mm tomorrow. Also switched out the wheels in the photo for some old school Campy Record Strada box tubulars laced 3x to some 2007 Campy Record 36 hole hubs. I've been using that wheelset since 2006 for all my training miles.


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## Salsa_Lover

and here is mine in full "Super Touring" mode, including compact crank, freshly built Open Pro/Record/32x3 wheels.

It still has the Ergo handlebars on as I haven't yet decided if to go Rotundo or not










I think at the end I'll go Rotundo, just like on the C-40 ( I reckon the Heliums clash here )


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## fabsroman

Salsa_Lover said:


> and here is mine in full "Super Touring" mode, including compact crank, freshly built Open Pro/Record/32x3 wheels.
> 
> It still has the Ergo handlebars on as I haven't yet decided if to go Rotundo or not
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I think at the end I'll go Rotundo, just like on the C-40 ( I reckon the Heliums clash here )


How do you like those heliums? I have a set of the rims laying around and have been contemplating building them up with some new Record hubs or some red Tune hubs. When I find some time, I am going to build up a set of wheels with old school Ambrosio Crono box rims and red Tune hubs.

I have no idea why component manufacturers do not sell decent rims anymore. It is hard to find anything in a lightweight tubular rim anymore unless you go with a carbon rim, and I certainly don't want that for everyday riding.

Then again, I guess I know why they don't make them anymore. They want us to buy their pre-built rims that are almost impossible to maintain if something breaks (e.g., Eurus spokes aren't the easiest thing to find).


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## Salsa_Lover

I think the Mavic Reflex can be got for some $50 and are quite decent rims. I still have some GP4s and will probably build a set with some Record Hubs at some point.

The Ambrosio Nemesis are some $100 and you can't go wrong with them.

I built the Record/OP yesterday with a set of silver DT revs with DT comps on drive side that I had at home. I was debating to order black spokes and green nipples but well I just did it with what I had in hand. 

This set is mainly for long rides so it could be repaired easily, clinchers, tubes and standard spokes can be found anywhere. Campy 11 mechanics or tools not so much though.

A C50 with a set of classic tubies looks indeed great, look here, simply great


http://www.boutiquecycles.com/bikes/details/classic_colnago_c50/editors_choice/

mission accomplished fabs, we have succesfuly derailed this thread


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## C-40

*thoughts...*

Obviously a brittle material failure. Campy should replace on warranty.

I highly recommend not using loctite 222. For one thing, it does not work at all unless the factory applied thread locking material is completely removed. In most cases, new cups have so much thread locking material on the threads that you could never hand tighten the cups enough for the face of the cup to touch the face of the BB shell. I've used 15Nm of torque just to overcome the resistance from the thread locker.


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## FrenchNago

Salsa_Lover said:


> and here is mine in full "Super Touring" mode, including compact crank, freshly built Open Pro/Record/32x3 wheels.
> 
> It still has the Ergo handlebars on as I haven't yet decided if to go Rotundo or not


I have the same build for my wheels but with '98-'99 record hubs that are the smoothest our there (still!!!) (In fact I i just finished rebuilding the '98 rear an hour ago: new races new bearings, new cones, new cups and sparingly campy grease....... feels like its on ceramic never stops spinning!!!!)


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## knakhemel

nayr497 said:


> Sorry, can't be of any help here besides to say good luck getting it sorted out.
> 
> 1) That's a fine, fine looking bike!
> 
> 2) How'd you get home?
> 
> 3) Did the cranks come out of the BB shell and stay attached to your feet? Were you able to pedal to a stop? Just curious, hopefully you didn't go down.


How did I get home? Called my wife: "Sweety, I need a ride home. My bike will not go any further. Please pick me up." And there she was with our car.

And yes the whole left crank came out. Lukely at the same time I released my shoe from the pedal (just in time).

But the great news is, I already have a new crankset. The titanium 2011 version. Even better looking with those red markings. The chainring bolts are attached directly into the inner chaniring. The centre fixing bolt is a counterclockwise one.


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## fabsroman

knakhemel said:


> How did I get home? Called my wife: "Sweety, I need a ride home. My bike will not go any further. Please pick me up." And there she was with our car.
> 
> And yes the whole left crank came out. Lukely at the same time I released my shoe from the pedal (just in time).
> 
> But the great news is, I already have a new crankset. The titanium 2011 version. Even better looking with those red markings. The chainring bolts are attached directly into the inner chaniring. The centre fixing bolt is a counterclockwise one.


Is the new crank the result of a warranty claim, or did you just go out and buy it. If Campy has already sent you a new crank, that is awesome customer service.


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## knakhemel

Now check this out.
I already posted I have a new set. Well, here it is.
Campa still rules in my opinion. They replaced my wrecked crankset for the new titanium version.
Does it look bliss or what?:thumbsup:


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## orange_julius

knakhemel said:


> Now check this out.
> I already posted I have a new set. Well, here it is.
> Campa still rules in my opinion. They replaced my wrecked crankset for the new titanium version.
> Does it look bliss or what?:thumbsup:


Awesome pics! Do you have notice a difference with the new crankset?


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## kbwh

I can! The new graphics are much easier to read.


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## Pirx

orange_julius said:


> Awesome pics! Do you have notice a difference with the new crankset?


Well, according to my calculations his averages should be at least 2.5mph faster now.


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## fabsroman

Good on Campy for giving you the titanium version. The little red circle goes well with your bike layout. I'm almost jealous.


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## knakhemel

Do you know the recommended tightening torque?
Again I followed the instructions supplied with the new crankset. Cups with Loctite 222 and the central bolt 40-60nm. So I took the middle road and torqued 50nm.
During the maiden trip there was a load "Pok" when the right pedal was at about three o'clock. So at the moment you put pressure on the pedal. It's driving me insane.
The front derailleur is not in the way so the crank is moving free. On the left side I mounted my Polar sensor but also enough space.
What am I missing here?


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## FrenchNago

knakhemel said:


> Do you know the recommended tightening torque?
> Again I followed the instructions supplied with the new crankset. Cups with Loctite 222 and the central bolt 40-60nm. So I took the middle road and torqued 50nm.
> During the maiden trip there was a load "Pok" when the right pedal was at about three o'clock. So at the moment you put pressure on the pedal. It's driving me insane.
> The front derailleur is not in the way so the crank is moving free. On the left side I mounted my Polar sensor but also enough space.
> What am I missing here?


mount according to instructions torque to the max, there shouldn't be any problem......don't forget to grease up a bit.....


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## Salsa_Lover

about your "Pok"

my 2011 SuperRecord crankset ( steel version) also make some noises I don't notice on the 2009 Record crank

I was a bit worried but then I am now pretty sure that it is because the new SR11 crank is hollow, so it amplifies sounds that otherwise you wouldn't hear that loud.


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## Pirx

knakhemel said:


> Do you know the recommended tightening torque?


35Nm. Hand-tightening with Loctite is dicey. For most people, and in most situations, I don't think you will be able to hand-tighten the cups sufficiently for them to be in spec. At the very least, you would first have to remove the thread-locker that comes factory-applied to the cup threads. Without that, the cups may be left "sticking out", which means the bearings may be overloaded once you install the cranks.

The recommendation now is to forget the Loctite, and just tighten to 35Nm.


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## rward325

I have 3 bikes with these cranks and have yet to see any failure like this! Glad Campy helped you out n this.


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