# Lynskey Helix (Daddy got a new pair of shoes!)



## GeneT (Feb 17, 2008)

A new Lynskey Helix a few rides after the build. Cables and such have been left a bit long until the best riding position gets sorted out. 

All metal except for the Enve 2.0 fork. Cane Creek 110 headset, Thompson Elite seat post, Ritchey WCS Logic Curve bars, Easton EA90 stem, Dura Ace drive train except for Ultegra cassette. Fizik Antares saddle. 

Super ride quality, fast, good handling and quiet. No hollow thump over bumps that carbon tubes make. 17.6 lbs with pedals and bottle cages in the large size frame, re-using my 1650 gram Volant wheelset. Built to endure.


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## Ride-Fly (Mar 27, 2002)

Those Helix frames intrigue me. I'm not a huge fan of the looks but I would love to have one anyways because they are so unique looking. And I am sure they perform really well too. How does it compare to other bikes you have owned/tried?


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## GeneT (Feb 17, 2008)

It is the best bike I've ridden but there are an awfully lot of bikes I haven't been on. For me it rides better, smother and is obviously more durable than the SuperSix Evo the other bike I came close to buying before deciding to buy the Lynskey (without having ridden it).

I wrote up a review and best to check that out for my opinion but in a nutshell it is what they advertise, a performance oriented Ti bike. 

Lynskey Performance Designs Houseblend Helix Road Bike Reviews

Check out the paint on David Lynskey's Helix OS, it's a sweet looking ride!
https://www.facebook.com/media/set/?set=a.430771023511.229156.35832143511&type=3

Gene


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## Golgol23 (Dec 30, 2010)

Looks great. I ride one too XL, they are pretty confortable mine has Lynskey Ti seatpost which adds tons of confort, the only weak spot is the front end should be stiffer, in the fast descents with corners you will notice the lack of stability. The OS model solves that with the larger headset tube..


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## GeneT (Feb 17, 2008)

I haven't had it long enough to push it through a real series of down hill turns but no problems on the limited descents I've done so far. Do you have the Enve 2.0 fork? 

You are riding an XL which is sized for above 6' 2" so I'm assuming you're bigger and heavier than I am at 6' and a 164lbs. If true then the extra frame length combined with more weight on the fork could mean it's a charateristic I won't notice. 

The OS model also has BB30 which is supposed to stiffen the bottom bracket but I haven't noticed any flex with the standard 68mm setup. While I believe BB30 will be around for the long haul, with all the new, conflicting and in some cases proprietary bottom bracket standards I was quite content to stay with the 68mm and in my case I wanted the shorter effective top tube. The OS top tube is 1.2 CM longer than the standard Helix for the large size frame.

- Gene


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## Kontact (Apr 1, 2011)

These are cool. It is amazing that they twist the tubes by hand.

There is some debate whether there is any reason at all to do this, or if it is just a gimmick. But the Helix bikes are light and ride well, so maybe the same principle of the rifled Columbus TSX tubes of the '80s applies here.


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## gamara (May 20, 2002)

Congrats, nice ride!


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## Ramjm_2000 (Jan 29, 2005)

Congrats on the Helix, welcome to the fam!


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## Ramjm_2000 (Jan 29, 2005)

Golgol23 said:


> Looks great. I ride one too XL, they are pretty confortable mine has Lynskey Ti seatpost which adds tons of confort, the only weak spot is the front end should be stiffer, in the fast descents with corners you will notice the lack of stability. The OS model solves that with the larger headset tube..


I suspect your issue is the ENVE. I went from a GS-40 to the ENVE and while it is a bit more plush isn't as stiff. That fork was my all time fave. I've heard a few riding buddies on larger frames (a Parlee and Seven) make comments make that exact comment.


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## Golgol23 (Dec 30, 2010)

Gene
At 164lbs the Helix standard it's the way to go, I'm much heavier (215lbs). The edge 2.0 fork it's great I have it too.In my opinion the 68mm bottom bracket is pretty fine no issues with the stiffness, however the press fit does allow for a wider down tube, which will stiffen the bike overall. But you choose well at your weight you don't need to strive for more stiffness then what the original Helix provides, I'm pretty sure that you won't notice any lack of stability in fast descents. Enjoy your lovely silver machine. Cheers


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## Golgol23 (Dec 30, 2010)

Ramjm_2000
Thanks for the tip. Have your buddies solved the problem by changing the Fork? I have a spare fork Look HSC which is pretty stiff, I will give a try. I hope you are right would save money from a new frame..


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## Ramjm_2000 (Jan 29, 2005)

I would think so. I have an HSC4 on my Look . Great fork! At your size I might even consider a Wound up. Rumor has it they have just released a full carbon version (crown and all), not sure if it's vapor ware and if it rides as well as their alloy crowned model but it might be worth calling them.


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## giosblue (Aug 2, 2009)

I don't buy into twisted tubes myself, it's a nice bike though.
Nearly as nice as my Icon.


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## danl1 (Jul 23, 2005)

Kontact said:


> These are cool. It is amazing that they twist the tubes by hand.
> 
> There is some debate whether there is any reason at all to do this, or if it is just a gimmick. But the Helix bikes are light and ride well, so maybe the same principle of the rifled Columbus TSX tubes of the '80s applies here.


I'm not certain there's any debate at all - at least not by the engineering types. Of course, there could be a debate between them, and the marketing types. Whether that should really be considered a 'debate' in this context is another matter entirely.

On the other hand, it doesn't really hurt anything, and does make for a unique look. And that's not an invalid reason to do it.


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## Ramjm_2000 (Jan 29, 2005)

giosblue said:


> I don't buy into twisted tubes myself, it's a nice bike though.
> Nearly as nice as my Icon.


No offense the the tech involved b/w and Icon and a Helix is not even close. The Icon is basically a standard double butted frame with a bit of HT wrap. I'd rather have a R230 or R340 (actually the R340 is probably a good step up from the Icon come to think about it...sweet dropouts double and triple butted tubes...) if I was going traditional.


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## Ramjm_2000 (Jan 29, 2005)

Golgol23 said:


> Ramjm_2000
> Thanks for the tip. Have your buddies solved the problem by changing the Fork? I have a spare fork Look HSC which is pretty stiff, I will give a try. I hope you are right would save money from a new frame..


Nope. They both basically live with it, it's something they notice but isn't a deal breaker. To complicate matters, the Parlee has the ENVE relogo'd with the Parlee "P".


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## giosblue (Aug 2, 2009)

Ramjm_2000 said:


> No offense the the tech involved b/w and Icon and a Helix is not even close. The Icon is basically a standard double butted frame with a bit of HT wrap. I'd rather have a R230 or R340 (actually the R340 is probably a good step up from the Icon come to think about it...sweet dropouts double and triple butted tubes...) if I was going traditional.



What is a "triple butted" tube? While triple butted sounds like a 50% improvement, it's usually an easier-to-produce variation of a double butted tube where the two thick ends don't match (i.e. 10/7/8). Because the optimal .3mm differential only exists at one end of the tube, a triple butted tube is typically less expensive (removing the taper-producing mandrel is relatively simple when one end of the tube is only partially butted). While many tubing companies hyped triple-butted tubing in the early '80s, enlightened consumers have made these tubes rare.


*So, in summary, it appears that regarding internally butted bike frame tubes, double butted is the sweet spot.*


Like I said, it's a nice bike, nearly as nice as my Icon


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## danl1 (Jul 23, 2005)

Golgol23 said:


> In my opinion the 68mm bottom bracket is pretty fine no issues with the stiffness, however the press fit does allow for a wider down tube, which will stiffen the bike overall.


Curious how you figure, since they're both 68mm wide.

PF/BB30 does allow for a stiffer crankset, should you care to believe that matters to power transfer. At least on a metal bike, BB30 does nothing to stiffen the frame.


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## Ramjm_2000 (Jan 29, 2005)

Wow I love how you use the terms "usually" and then you make it sound like anyone who triple butts a tube does it without intent...nice. Could it be a builder may want the weight/effect a triple butted tube offers? Sounds like a bit of douchbaggery spouted off in an attempt to educate the "less enlightened". Personally I've owned just about every variation of butting available on a ti frame, there was nothing mystical about a double or triple butted tube except weight. Further I couldn't care less if it took 5 min to butt or 15 as long as the ride, weight, and strength aren't compromised. BTW you should be in love with the Helix given your logic, no triple butted (double for the Helix tubes) tons of extra time required to manipulate the tubes. Seems to check all your "enlighted" squares. 



giosblue said:


> What is a "triple butted" tube? While triple butted sounds like a 50% improvement, it's usually an easier-to-produce variation of a double butted tube where the two thick ends don't match (i.e. 10/7/8). Because the optimal .3mm differential only exists at one end of the tube, a triple butted tube is typically less expensive (removing the taper-producing mandrel is relatively simple when one end of the tube is only partially butted). While many tubing companies hyped triple-butted tubing in the early '80s, enlightened consumers have made these tubes rare.
> 
> 
> *So, in summary, it appears that regarding internally butted bike frame tubes, double butted is the sweet spot.*
> ...


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## giosblue (Aug 2, 2009)

I wasn't knocking the Helix, It's a NICE BIKE, I personally don't like the twisted tubes and I wouldn't buy one because of that. You're the one knocking the Icon, basically saying that it's just bog standard double butted with a bit of ht wrap.and then you mention triple butted, inferring that the double butted Icon is inferior to the triple butted,R340 which is not the case.


Quote 
*No offense the the tech involved b/w and Icon and a Helix is not even close*

That statement is rubbish, absolute tosh.


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## Ramjm_2000 (Jan 29, 2005)

What exactly did ABG do to the Icon to make it anything other than a "bog" (your words not mine) double butted frame? Magic pixxy dust? IMO any magic they had left departed when the Lynskeys left (this coming from a Litespeed owner as well) Additionally you imply that there is something wrong with being a standard double butted frame, On the contrary they are the bread and butter of high performance Ti. You my friend were the one stating that your ICON was above and beyond what this thread was about. I've ridden an ICON and can tell you it's nice but nothing out of the ordinary, fact. If forced I'd rather have a NOS Siena if I had to go ABG. 



giosblue said:


> I wasn't knocking the Helix, It's a NICE BIKE, I personally don't like the twisted tubes and I wouldn't buy one because of that. You're the one knocking the Icon, basically saying that it's just bog standard double butted with a bit of ht wrap.and then you mention triple butted, inferring that the double butted Icon is inferior to the triple butted,R340 which is not the case.
> 
> 
> Quote
> ...


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## Golgol23 (Dec 30, 2010)

Well tomorrow will get the HSC fork fitted asap. But my Helix wobbles a lot. Just came from a ride, and on a descent I've made one mistake, my elbow touched my knee when I was getting ready to take a tight corner and “bang” wobble all over the place, the bike simply could not absorb the lateral force on the handlebar..I’m afraid that it might be more then the fork issue, but if the HSC provides a bit more stiffness the better..


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## Ramjm_2000 (Jan 29, 2005)

Golgol23 said:


> Well tomorrow will get the HSC fork fitted asap. But my Helix wobbles a lot. Just came from a ride, and on a descent I've made one mistake, my elbow touched my knee when I was getting ready to take a tight corner and “bang” wobble all over the place, the bike simply could not absorb the lateral force on the handlebar..I’m afraid that it might be more then the fork issue, but if the HSC provides a bit more stiffness the better..


A misconception about wobble is that there is an issue with frame alignment or a loose headset. From my experience I found that the folks having the biggest issue with speed wobble were those riding large frames and/or had a generous spacer stack/stem pointing north, a more compliant fork may exacerbate the problem. A few years ago I had a buddy who was having a wobble issue with an Easton SLX on an IF Crown Jewel. It showed up after he flipped his stem up and added a spacer due to a wreck. He went back to his old set up about a month later and no issues. Switching the fork may help especially if it has an issue with asymmetry (if I recall Calfee offers a fok check service). I'd also consider how true your front wheel is and the condition of the tire. You're on an XL right? How's the rest of the cockpit look?


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## GeneT (Feb 17, 2008)

Do twisted tubes work, I don't know. What I can say is today was my 4th ride on it and I did a century. I have been much more concerned about adjusting to the new seat than the new bike. I am faster, my endurance is better, I am pain free, I can not feel any flex and the ride is supurb. 

My Klein is a prettier bike, Klein did some very nice paint but I don't care. Based on the how I have described my expeiences with the bike, the wife asked me if I was going to sell the Klein. I can't do that for a couple of months as I need it as backup bike for an endurance race coming up, but I can't see keeping it, I'm not going to want to ride it. 

I have ridden and reveled in the Klein for more than 24,000 miles and had you told me a couple of weeks ago I'd be ready to chuck it over board, I'd have called you crazy. It's not all about the bike specifically, part of it's fit, part of it the superior ride quality, so Lynskey can pretzel the tubes if that's what makes it perform as it does. Since I am now contemplating selling the two other bikes I own, all I can say is to Lynskey is _Please Sir, may I have another? _


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## Golgol23 (Dec 30, 2010)

Well I have FSA Vero Alu Handlebar, Specialized Stem -17 (one spacer only), the Lynskey Headtube is too big for me, I would prefer a shorter one. For my wheels I have a set of custom made Hed Belgium from Wheelbuilder laced with 28 sapin spokes front and 32 on the rear (pretty stiff stuff). Almost forgot I have a Cane Creek 110 Headset kit.
However I have order the new Enve Compact Handlebar I should get it this week, my FSA bar is pretty stiff but the problem is that on the hoods it measures 41cms which is quite annoying. And regarding the stem the plan is to remove the spacer and get a Thompson stem, my handlebar position is really low.


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## eickmewg (Feb 11, 2012)

I think you meant to say "reveled" and not "reviled." That little "i" makes a big difference. I recently got an Ti frame and considered Lynskey and others. I guess I'm too old school and plain round tubes were much more appealling for me.


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## Ridin'Sorra (Sep 7, 2004)

If that's a gimmick, that may be the best looking gimmick I've ever seen... and I mean that in a positive way.

Congrats, that's serious bling.


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## giosblue (Aug 2, 2009)

Suffice to to say that the OP is happy with his bike. It makes him * faster*, his *endurance* is better and he *pain *free.

I can't say that about the Icon or any other bike I have owned for that matter. Non of the bikes I have had have had that effect me. Much to my dismay lol
However I think twisted tubes are a gimmick, I can't see the point and I would be surprised if we see it on any other bikes. It will most probably die off like these things do, never to return.
It is still a NICE bike It would nicer without the twist., its a quality TI frame, nuff said.


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## Ramjm_2000 (Jan 29, 2005)

Golgol23 said:


> Well I have FSA Vero Alu Handlebar, Specialized Stem -17 (one spacer only), the Lynskey Headtube is too big for me, I would prefer a shorter one. For my wheels I have a set of custom made Hed Belgium from Wheelbuilder laced with 28 sapin spokes front and 32 on the rear (pretty stiff stuff). Almost forgot I have a Cane Creek 110 Headset kit.
> However I have order the new Enve Compact Handlebar I should get it this week, my FSA bar is pretty stiff but the problem is that on the hoods it measures 41cms which is quite annoying. And regarding the stem the plan is to remove the spacer and get a Thompson stem, my handlebar position is really low.


Wow. 41cm on an XL frame, sounds super narrow. Your setup doesn't sound like it would make the wobble problem worse. Meant to ask before, what rake are you running on the ENVE? I recalled another thread in WW about trying to solve a wobble, here it is: 

Weight Weenies • View topic - Weakest Link - Front End Shimmy

and its follow up

Weight Weenies • View topic - Fork Comparison: Edge 2.0 vs. Ritchey Pro vs. CAAD 9 Premium

Might be helpful.


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## GeneT (Feb 17, 2008)

(Thanks Eickmewg for the grammar check, there may be a full time position available. God bless spell check too bad it can't fix every type of mistake. )

Truly thanks to my LBS for having a bunch of bikes to ride! Without them I would not have the opportunity to have as easily discovered what was best for me. I may have bought the frame from Lynskey but the LBS did the fit and build and I've specifically made a number of related purchases from _them_ since I've been a beneficiary of the resources they provide.

Thanks Cannondale for not bothering to answer multiple emails, to even acknowledge the existence of a consumer who was ready plunk down 5K for one of your bikes. It has worked out best for me, though it probably did cost the LBS a sale.

I think there is common ground we can all generally agree on, ride quality and frame stiffness will show through, even if greatly influenced by the applied wheelset, fork and weight of the rider.

To each his own, that's what it boils down to. Individuals body mechanics dictating what can be tolerated (for the sake of performance) and what feels best. Me, I probably need to buy the little miracle hamstring stretcher and that has played into why the large decrease in drop height, going from the Klein to the Helix has felt so great.

I would say to anyone contemplating a new bike, ride a bunch of them, talk to a lot of people, talk to mechanics, read the warranties, if you find a bike that might be a keeper try it with more than one wheelset. Unless you get lucky, what comes out of a purchase will probably be proportional to the effort put in.


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## Golgol23 (Dec 30, 2010)

Thanks
This is helpful (really liked the post regarding the technique… Clamp the top tube with both legs!! wow..), I have a 43mm Enve fork, and that is what is recommended by Lynskey the Look though is a 45mm, I guess it should be on the limit of acceptable. Well the bike went to the shop to get the fork fitted, I should go for a ride next Friday and test one more time.
ps: my handlebar is a 44cm not 41!! sorry Monday morning I was totally brain dead..


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## Apexrider (Oct 10, 2011)

Kontact said:


> There is some debate whether there is any reason at all to do this, or if it is just a gimmick.


According to Mark Lynskey in this review there is a reason for it:



Mark Lynskey said:


> "A basic understanding of shapes and forces tells you that beams are designed to resist bending, and cylindrical shapes do a good job of resisting torsion loads,” Mark says. “Conversely, beams do a poor job with torsion and round shapes don’t resist bending well.
> 
> "The down tube and top tube of a bicycle frame have both torsion and bending happening at the same time during a ride. The beneﬁt of the Helix shape is that it’s what could be called a compound shape. This means it’s a good combination of a beam and a cylinder. It resists both bending and twisting very well."


I own one myself and it's by far the best bike I've ever ridden.


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## Juanmoretime (Nov 24, 2001)

Welcome to the Lynskey family. I don't know if the twisty tubes do anything but I have them on 3 of my 7 Lynskey's. I loose track sometimes.


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## eickmewg (Feb 11, 2012)

Looks like the Lynskey "tubing" only makes one 180 degree rotation. It would be more impressive with a 360 or 540 degree twist. Plus, I am tempted to address the "loose" vs. "lose" issue but I don't want to get some sort of reputation as a spelling Nazi. This post is totally in jest!


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## GeneT (Feb 17, 2008)

Spelling Nazi, never! Personally I appreciated your catching my error (though somwhere there is a neighborhood association enforcement committee that is missing out).

But I am curious, as eickmewg is a pronoun, shouldn't it be Eickmewg? (lol!)


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## danl1 (Jul 23, 2005)

Ramjm_2000 said:


> A misconception about wobble is that there is an issue with frame alignment or a loose headset. From my experience I found that the folks having the biggest issue with speed wobble were those riding large frames and/or had a generous spacer stack/stem pointing north, a more compliant fork may exacerbate the problem. A few years ago I had a buddy who was having a wobble issue with an Easton SLX on an IF Crown Jewel. It showed up after he flipped his stem up and added a spacer due to a wreck. He went back to his old set up about a month later and no issues. Switching the fork may help especially if it has an issue with asymmetry (if I recall Calfee offers a fok check service). I'd also consider how true your front wheel is and the condition of the tire. You're on an XL right? How's the rest of the cockpit look?


That's a narrow data set to draw that conclusion on. 

Wobbles are a harmonic phenomenon, and so a result of the total combination of bike, rider, and setup. It would be equally possible that given only some slight difference in scenario that the flip-and-drop would have been the move that would have created the wobble.


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## danl1 (Jul 23, 2005)

Apexrider said:


> According to Mark Lynskey in this review there is a reason for it:
> 
> 
> 
> I own one myself and it's by far the best bike I've ever ridden.


According to the guy selling the bike....

Okay, so let's do a small thought experiment: Why did they twist them this way, instead of the other direction? They've inherently created an asymmetrical design, but why and to what ends? It's not explained. 

Because - There is no explanation. We can extend the story and try, but it's all BS.

A wasted effort to explain why, so enjoy your bike. It is (and I truly mean this) a terrific bike - the Lynskey brothers do good stuff, and I truly love the Litespeed I ride that is the fruit of their efforts. 

But if you happen to be around smart folks that understand matters of structural engineering, better to go with "because it looks cool," rather than regurgitating the marketing hokum.


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## Ramjm_2000 (Jan 29, 2005)

danl1 said:


> That's a narrow data set to draw that conclusion on.
> 
> Wobbles are a harmonic phenomenon, and so a result of the total combination of bike, rider, and setup. It would be equally possible that given only some slight difference in scenario that the flip-and-drop would have been the move that would have created the wobble.


A little reading comprehension goes a long way. No one is implying that said setup/position "IS" the cause of said wobble, so no need for an N>30 to validate. As you mentioned and I agree 100% it is an issue of harmonics and usually a combination of many factors BUT not always an issue with a loose headset/frame, hense "A" misconception (meaning one of many). This played out many times during my bike shop days back in undergrad and grad school, more often than not the headset and frame were fine the issue was usually a worn wheel/tire exacerbated by a "bar toward the sky" handlebar position. My example was just one of many and the most recent.


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## GeneT (Feb 17, 2008)

While I'm sure Pinarello (and others) never shaped a tube principally for marketing reasons, sometimes materials and how they are applied just works.

Below are links to reviews I found helpful in considering the Helix.

http://www.roadbikeaction.com/Bike-Tests/content/66/2044/Lynskey-Helix.html
http://video.bicycling.com/video/Lynskey-Helix-Video-Review-2
http://www.bicycling.com/gearfinderproductdetail?gfid=12296
http://m.bikeradar.com/gear/category/bikes/road/product/review-lynskey-helix-10-frame-only-35341


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## GeneT (Feb 17, 2008)

I now have over 850 miles on the Helix with recent rides of 92 miles and 8,000 feet of climbing, 140 miles and 12,000 feet of climbing, there has not been a moment that I wished I was on or had bought a carbon fiber bike or for that matter had bought a different bike, I'm very happy with the Helix.


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