# Gumwall tires



## sasquatch16 (Feb 7, 2013)

Bought a set of used wheels that came with Specialized Turbo Cotton tires. The gumwall are starting to grow on me. Does anyone else make a gumwall that is a little more durable. Would love to find a tire with characteristics of Continental GP 4000 but in a gumwall. Does anyone make one?


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## upstateSC-rider (Aug 21, 2004)

Vittoria Corsa's ride great and are available with gumwalls.


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## velodog (Sep 26, 2007)

Compass


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## ceugene (Jun 20, 2015)

Looking at the tire center thickness measurements on the Bicycle Rolling Resistance website, the Corsa G+ is probably the most durable cottonwall open-tubular, but that's a very low bar. My 25mm Corsa G+ lasted 1300mi in the rear before the center ribs wore completely flat and the casing started getting cut up. If a GP4K doesn't suffer a sidewall tear, it would last me more than 2500mi.


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## sasquatch16 (Feb 7, 2013)

If I am changing tires at 1300 miles I might give up my fondness for gumwall. Replacing tires does not concern me as much as getting more flats


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## ceugene (Jun 20, 2015)

sasquatch16 said:


> If I am changing tires at 1300 miles I might give up my fondness for gumwall. Replacing tires does not concern me as much as getting more flats


Basically what happened was I wore down the tread to the point where glass was perforating the casing easily. This resulted in two flats in two rides, and then I binned the tire. It's the sequence of events that finally pushed me to go tubeless. Now if Vittoria wants to make a Corsa G+ tubeless with more tread-life than their Corsa Speeds or current Corsa G+, I'd reconsider their tires. Likewise if Continental or Michelin want to jump on the tubeless train, I'll be waiting.

One thing to consider. You cannot use "open tubulars" with rubber glued onto a cotton casing with a turbo trainer. The pressure and heat from the roller will make the glue flow, then squeeze out from under the rubber. This will eventually make the rubber lift up and ruined the tire.


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## Jay Strongbow (May 8, 2010)

upstateSC-rider said:


> Vittoria Corsa's ride great and are available with gumwalls.


It probably doesn't matter in the context of the question and they are great tires but they are definitely not gum walls and don't really look like gum walls either. They are just the ordinary side walls in a much lighter shape of tan than gumwalls/spec turbo. Almost white as opposed to borderline orange. Definitely the tire to get though.

Also check out Challenge tires. Depending which model they either have whiteish side walls or more of a real gum wall. Great tires also, in the same league as Vitt. Unlike Vitt though they are hard to find discounted.


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## J.R. (Sep 14, 2009)

I have the Corsa Gs on my bike and I have between 4000-5000 miles on the set and they still look fine. No flats in that time. I'm using latex tubes. I'm switched front to back once in that time.

I really like the tires and how they look.

I'm 170 lbs and ride between 5000-6000 mile/year.


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## Z'mer (Oct 28, 2013)

Veloflex Master is another choice for 320 TPI gumwall clinchers
Veloflex Master 25


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## ceugene (Jun 20, 2015)

J.R. said:


> I have the Corsa Gs on my bike and I have between 4000-5000 miles on the set and they still look fine. No flats in that time. I'm using latex tubes. I'm switched front to back once in that time.
> 
> I really like the tires and how they look.
> 
> I'm 170 lbs and ride between 5000-6000 mile/year.


I can only surmise that those were somewhat relaxed, flat miles. I weigh 135lbs, do a ton of climbing/descending (200mi/20000ft weeks) and never skidded the rear tire. There is simply no way Corsa G+ would last more than 1500mi on a rear, and maybe 2500mi for a front rotated to the rear for me.

For extra data points, Schwalbe Pro Ones lasted around 2500mi in the rear. Hutchinson Fusion 5 Galactiks lasted around 900mi in the rear. Continental Grand Prix 4000 S IIs lasted around 3000mi in the rear if the sidewalls didn't get sliced up in that time.


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## sasquatch16 (Feb 7, 2013)

Yea the Victoria's definitely look more like a white wall. I like the turbo cottons I don't like that the only way to get them is paying LBS list price.
The Veloflex's don't look bad though.


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## J.R. (Sep 14, 2009)

ceugene said:


> I can only surmise that those were somewhat relaxed, flat miles. I weigh 135lbs, do a ton of climbing/descending (200mi/20000ft weeks) and never skidded the rear tire. There is simply no way Corsa G+ would last more than 1500mi on a rear, and maybe 2500mi for a front rotated to the rear for me.
> 
> For extra data points, Schwalbe Pro Ones lasted around 2500mi in the rear. Hutchinson Fusion 5 Galactiks lasted around 900mi in the rear. Continental Grand Prix 4000 S IIs lasted around 3000mi in the rear if the sidewalls didn't get sliced up in that time.


It does seem like I have a hard time wearing out tires. I live in central PA and switch to Rubino Pros in the wintertime. These will run 5000-6000 miles before they wear out. I love climbing and descending and like to spend some time each summer in the NC mountains. 

so far this year (not counting rollers) I've ridden a little over 3000 miles with just over 150,000 ft of climbing


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## Kerry Irons (Feb 25, 2002)

ceugene said:


> Basically what happened was I wore down the tread to the point where glass was perforating the casing easily.


Not likely. New tread is about the same thickness as the casing, and the mechanism of punctures allows glass (or any sharp object) to penetrate both once the sharp object is imbedded in the tire. You just had bad luck. I've never seen any data that suggests more frequent flats as tread wears.



ceugene said:


> One thing to consider. You cannot use "open tubulars" with rubber glued onto a cotton casing with a turbo trainer. The pressure and heat from the roller will make the glue flow, then squeeze out from under the rubber. This will eventually make the rubber lift up and ruined the tire.


Not really. Many "open tubulars" are vulcanized just like many tubulars and many clinchers are. Some tires have the tread just glued on the casing with no subsequent curing, but those are relatively rare.


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## blackfrancois (Jul 6, 2016)

i like panaracer paselas.


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## Jay Strongbow (May 8, 2010)

Kerry Irons said:


> Not really. *Many "open tubulars" are vulcanized *just like many tubulars and many clinchers are. Some tires have the tread just glued on the casing with no subsequent curing, but those are relatively rare.


Can you name one of these many? Vittoria, Challenge and Veloflex are the only companies I'm aware of using the term and theirs are not vulcanized.


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## velodog (Sep 26, 2007)

There's a quick explanation of vulcanized tires in here.

https://janheine.wordpress.com/2017/03/08/panaracer-hand-made-tires/


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## ceugene (Jun 20, 2015)

Jay Strongbow said:


> Can you name one of these many? Vittoria, Challenge and Veloflex are the only companies I'm aware of using the term and theirs are not vulcanized.


Yep, the ones you mentioned are definitely not vulcanized and Vittoria Corsas are not in any way rare these days. I don' think the Specialized Turbo Cottons or Bontrager R4 320s are vulcanized either, and those are available at any Specialized or Trek dealer.

Here's a photo I took of the glue being squeezed out and the subsequent ease of tread removal.

https://www.instagram.com/p/BPtdEpyggfS

e: Even in Jan Heine's Panaracer / Compass puff piece, he states "Many hand-made tires are not vulcanized. Held together with strong glue, they look like the raw tires in the photo above"


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## Lombard (May 8, 2014)

sasquatch16 said:


> Bought a set of used wheels that came with Specialized Turbo Cotton tires. The gumwall are starting to grow on me.


They're starting to grow on you? That's good news, because wider tires are in, LOL! Sorry, I just couldn't help myself.


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## sasquatch16 (Feb 7, 2013)

Tires are 28.5mm wide on 27mm wide rims. I just thought the deep wheels and gumwall tire distracted the eye from the extremely large frame. Probably just me.


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## Kerry Irons (Feb 25, 2002)

Jay Strongbow said:


> Can you name one of these many? Vittoria, Challenge and Veloflex are the only companies I'm aware of using the term and theirs are not vulcanized.


OK, there "were" many because there was a time when a bunch of companies were marketing their clinchers as "open tubulars" as a way to impress the impressionable. Since it is pretty much a meaningless term by itself, it has clearly fallen out of use. I (obviously) don't keep close track of the current marketing buzz


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## ceugene (Jun 20, 2015)

At this point it's just a way to differentiate clinchers with cotton casings vs nylon casings. I think the terminology is fine since cotton casings are relatively uncommon on modern clinchers, but ubiquitous with "sew-ups/"


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## Peanya (Jun 12, 2008)

I'd love to find a set of gumwalls that are tubeless and 28mm wide. Maybe a manufacturer will make one someday soon!


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## Keoki (Feb 13, 2012)

sasquatch16 said:


> Tires are 28.5mm wide on 27mm wide rims. I just thought the deep wheels and gumwall tire distracted the eye from the extremely large frame. Probably just me.
> View attachment 320240


Holy S&^T!! How tall are you?


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## No Time Toulouse (Sep 7, 2016)

ceugene said:


> At this point it's just a way to differentiate clinchers with cotton casings vs nylon casings. I think the terminology is fine since cotton casings are relatively uncommon on modern clinchers, but ubiquitous with "sew-ups/"


I wouldn't say "ubiquitous". Conti Sprinters aren't, Tufos aren't, I don't think my Challenge tubulars are, either. There also used to be silk casings....


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## sasquatch16 (Feb 7, 2013)

Keoki said:


> Holy S&^T!! How tall are you?


6'4" 38" cycling inseam


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## Keoki (Feb 13, 2012)

sasquatch16 said:


> 6'4" 38" cycling inseam


Dude, do you really think aero wheels will help you become more aero with your height with that bike setup (stem is set to comfort)? You're like a moving skyscraper...


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## sasquatch16 (Feb 7, 2013)

Keoki said:


> Dude, do you really think aero wheels will help you become more aero with your height with that bike setup (stem is set to comfort)? You're like a moving skyscraper...


Not at all. Deal to good to pass up and I like the way they look. Actually have to revisit the stem setup. Lost a good bit of weight and can probably go lower although don't think it will make much difference. Guys I ride with joke that they could read a magazine when I'm pulling.


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## Migen21 (Oct 28, 2014)

First ride on Vittoria Corsa G+ 25mm










It was a relatively flat ride, so no hair raising decents and thus no commentary on grip and handling (vs GP4000)

I'm also trying latex tubes for the first time. Since it's a new combination for me, I'm starting with the pressures a little higher than I did on my GP4000s. For this ride I as at 90f/95r at the start of the ride. 

The tires felt fine. I can definitely feel a difference between them and the GP4000s. I don't know if I would describe the ride quality as 'better' or not. I'll know more once I've settled on a pressure.

I'm also interested to know how these are going to wear. I really wasn't looking to change tires, but I got these at the local shop for a decent discount, so decided to give them a try (some of the shop employees rave about them).

And yes, I'm tall. I'm 6' 5" and about 215lbs. I would have probably preferred these in 28mm, but this is all they had, so I decided to give them a try. So far, not bad.

As far as aesthetics, I'm still undecided if I prefer this look over the GP4000. It's definitely unique, and some people rave about them. Lot's of people noticed them immediately and asked about it.

I think it works better on all black bikes, but it's not bad.


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## Z'mer (Oct 28, 2013)

Migen21 said:


> First ride on Vittoria Corsa G+ 25mm
> The tires felt fine. I can definitely feel a difference between them and the GP4000s. I don't know if I would describe the ride quality as 'better' or not. I'll know more once I've settled on a pressure.
> 
> I'm also interested to know how these are going to wear. I really wasn't looking to change tires, but I got these at the local shop for a decent discount, so decided to give them a try (some of the shop employees rave about them).
> ...


I wish they still made a black version personally. 

How do they wear? At your weight, the rear will likely be pretty worn in maybe 2K miles or perhaps less, if they are similar to previous Open CX Corsa. 

I run the previous version (Open CX black) on the front and GP4000S II on back. The GP4000SII wears much better in the rear, maybe 3-4K miles for me. The Corsa in front goes forever, maybe 5K + miles compared to when used on the back. 

I also run a lot less pressure in front, about 75psi, and 95 psi rear. I'm 185 with a 20 lb bike (with water bottle + tools). The ride is great.


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