# Heavier TRI bike vs lighter road bike with clipons



## adam_mac84 (Sep 22, 2010)

Hey all,

I currently have a China carbon frame (fm028) that I have been riding in weekly club TT (14.9mi). I have gotten to the point where I have gotten sub 40 min (~23 +/- 0.5mph) depending on the wind that week. I have been swapping over a 0 offset seat post and shorter stem for the TT's. Was in my LBS and they have a Fuji Aloha 2.0 that I could pick up for around $800.

the TT runs along a river, so basically flat... a few rollers here and there (speed drops to 18.5 to 19mph on some short rollers). I am also going to ride 5 or so TRIs this year from sprint to olympic distances.

The Aloha is definately at least 2 lbs heavier than my road bike setup, and I am wondering if I am wasting the $$ on a tri specific bike. I am tired of swapping components around 2x a week, but if the weight penalty is going to negate the purchase, I may re-think my options.

I have done some big investing in the 'motor' this year, and have dropped almost 30 lbs off of my body since last years tri season (6,3" 220 to about 190 lbs) and have cut about 2.5 minutes off of my weekly TT, usually putting me 2-3 places out of top 10's.

I can post a video of my clip-on setup (trainer video) if it helps, but being new to thinking of getting a tri bike, i seek your advise.


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## Creakyknees (Sep 21, 2003)

Will the Aloha allow you to get into a different (better) position?


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## Jay Strongbow (May 8, 2010)

Weight doesn't really matter on TT bikes. (debatable how much it really matters on road bikes but that's another topic) You wouldn't see disk wheels if it did. Those are really heavy compared to regular road wheels.

TT's aren't about a bunch of sudden accelerations and generally aren't all up hill where you could make a case for weight being important.

Assuming you'd get in a better position and that the wheels and tires aren't a big step down you'd definitely be better off on a TT specific bike. It may take a little to get your body acclimated to it though. But a better postion is well worth two pounds for TT style riding. Although with you already using aero bars it's tough to say how much better that postion would be if better at all.
Basically make your choice depending on position and don't worry about the two pounds.


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## spade2you (May 12, 2009)

If you already have a nice road bike and you're planning on doing ITTs and tris, it makes sense to have a dedicated tri bike.


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## adam_mac84 (Sep 22, 2010)

Thanks for the replies... I will bring my road bike 'tri outfitted' to compare positions to see... It's tough never having been on a tri bike, knowing whether my position will be better... but i trust the guys at the LBS to let me know how it looks, they know ill buy another bike there eventually


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## Gatorback (Jul 11, 2009)

Aero is where it's at for the TT's you describe. If it gets you in a significantly better position for time trialing, especially in a tri friendly aero position, I would do it.


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## tuffguy1500 (Jul 17, 2008)

One big benefit to a Tri specific bike is the positioning. When properly fit, not only will you be more comfortable, but you won't work the muscles you use for running as much, which leaves you in a better position for a good transition. My first tri season I rocked a converted road bike, but this year I invested in a dedicated Tri bike, and just to help justify it, I'm hoping to do a few TT's with a local club. Tri/TT specific saddles also help by supporting in different areas allowing for the better position.


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## adam_mac84 (Sep 22, 2010)

here's a video of my road bike setup... i am a little squirmy on the seat but theres a short period where i settle in.


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## tuffguy1500 (Jul 17, 2008)

Just from looking at that, I'd highly suggest a tri specific bike. It looks like your hips are rolled back to accommodate your saddle, which is bunching up your torso. I know it's a short vid, and of course, I'm not sure how you actually feel, but you look uncomfortable with that arrangement. So my main observations:

1. Saddle too far back, bad saddle for forward tri positioning
2. Hips rolled back instead of forward-closes your torso limiting your ability to breathe in
3. Elbows too far ahead of your body- I'm almost willing to bet you can feel tension in your back/shoulder area to support your weight. This is lost energy, and for me, was very uncomfortable.

I hope that helps a little bit!! I'm curious if my observations rings true for you in terms of comfort.


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## adam_mac84 (Sep 22, 2010)

Tuffguy. Basically during my TT i end up alternating every mile or so between being set back where I am a bit more comfortable to riding up ON the rivet (and now i am having some nerve issues to show for it). So, yes i feel what you are saying about the saddle too far back... this is even with a 74* ST and 0 offset post.

I would like the elbows farther back, currently switch every week from 120mm stem and 3cm spacers to 90mm stem and 0 spacers with aero bars. That has gotten me to where i am. I do very much appreciate your suggestions... now to hope that the bike i test ride on tuesday will fit.

I do know that I will max out the Aloha stock seat post with my 85.5cm bb to saddle height (30* knee flexion)... i don't know if there is a appropriately shaped longer seat tube out there... the bit i was settling over the bike without my shoes/pedals etc suggested that the top tube was pretty near where i want it. We will see, and I will search for sutiable replacement for seat tube if the bike fits i guess...

I actually am hoping that test riding a TRI bike will give me a little relief on my nerves down there... having pain for 3 days and only being 26 y.o. makes me nervous.


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## spade2you (May 12, 2009)

Wait, if you're maxing out the saddle height with the Kona, are you sure it's the right size? Sounds like a decent deal, but it's not so decent if you're walking away with a bike that doesn't fit right.


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## adam_mac84 (Sep 22, 2010)

This is why I am test riding. With my dimentions I usually end up with lots of seat post. I will certainly walk away if the size doesn't work. It's my first try at a tri bike and I trust the shop. Thanks for your concern tho! I've been through the ill fitting bike before, when I got my cross bike too big when I started riding and couldn't handle the bar drop of the smaller size frame. I have legs of a guy taller than me and the torso of someone about 2-3 inches shorter


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## woodys737 (Dec 31, 2005)

Given the Aloha fits fine I think a dedicated TT/tri bike is the way to go if you are going to keep doing them. I certainly can't prove it here but, for me my TT bike way good for approximately 1.5-2mph faster at the same intensity, same wheels, clothes, helmet. I isolated just the frame/fork. The problem I had with trying to set up the road bike like the TT bike was that I could not reproduce the same position. Generally, I could not get my hips forward enough or in the right position (rolled forward). All the angles were just wacked as a result. As a result I just was unable to produce close to the same power.

I think $800 is a wise investment and you will be happy with the results.


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## adam_mac84 (Sep 22, 2010)

Well, i went and road 3 TRI bikes today. Rode the 58cm Fuji Aloha 2.0. Felt really good, but was at max seat post extension leaving me about 1/2 cm too low. Cervelo P2 (out of my price range). Felt good, but not $700 better, and a Specialized transition pro, my favorite, but $2300, straying far from my original $850. The original shop said they have a 60cm that they can order from Fuji for the same cost to me if I'd like, but it's a 3cm increase in reach.

I was however thinking about swapping aero bars to something with 'adjustable' pads, versus pads integrated into the handlebar clamp, that, combined with a bit shorter stem should make the 60 good to go. There is a 1* difference in seat post angle (77 vs 78 on the 58cm). For the price, i think i'll give it a go


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## tuffguy1500 (Jul 17, 2008)

As a poor student, I ended up buying a chinese carbon tt frame. Spend several hours in the forum searching, then more time online talking to manufacturers and reading about the FIST fit system on slowtwitch. My purchase decision was one I made out of financial and realistic needs. I'm not fast enough or experienced enough, and won't ride enough miles to justify $1k+ on a brand name Tri/tt bike. I did however, go through my local tri shop (which is now my preferred lbs as well, the store is run by a great staff) to get fitted. In all, I spent around $840 for the frame, shipping, and a fit, and used spare 105 parts and aero bars (Profile Design Carbon CobraWing/T2+ bars) to put it all together. The next bike will be the Argon E-114 once I have the money for such!


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## adam_mac84 (Sep 22, 2010)

lol, my road bike is an FM028 ... Got it shortly after physical therapy school when funds were pretty tight... plus, i like to tinker


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## tuffguy1500 (Jul 17, 2008)

Chinese frames, Tris and TTs, I'm also in a Pre-PT program at school right now! Riding the bikes is the only way to stay sane with the workload.


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## asad137 (Jul 29, 2009)

Have you looked into a _forward_-offset seatpost? Something like the Profile Design Fast Forward can go a long way towards making a road bike comfortable while in aero bars.

Asad


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## Jetmugg (Sep 22, 2010)

If you are having nerve/deadness issues "down there", definitely try one of the ISM Adamo saddles for the TT's. It will allow you to pedal comfortably when bent over into a TT position. I bought one to use on my road bike (that I also use in local TT's). This is one of the saddles that has a 2-pronged "fork" shape at the nose. It has made a huge difference. There is no pressure applied to the perineum with the Adamo style saddles. I have also rotated my seatpost around "backwards" to shift the saddle position forward, then fine-tune the fore/aft adjustment by moving the saddle fore/aft in the clamp.


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## adam_mac84 (Sep 22, 2010)

Well, I friday picked up the bike, got it fitted saturday and loaded her up this morning for my sprint tri. Probably should have gotten some miles in first, but this is a 'training' tri anyhow. Definitly uses different muscle groups, and made my legs feel a bit heavy, but i think there is some real promise here.

Of course, pics to come


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## mreams99 (Feb 25, 2009)

I agree with the others. Weight is a minor issue, position and fit are much more important.


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## adam_mac84 (Sep 22, 2010)

Well, rode the bike to 1st in the bike leg in my TT... missed 3rd place in my AG by 2 seconds (4:40 in transitions... ouch). Was just only off my PR for my 15 mile weekly TT compared to my old setup. However, that PR was an anomaly due to wind... so id say the bike/position is definately faster... especially TT the day after a TRI. Now to take tomorrow off (maybe swim)


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## adam_mac84 (Sep 22, 2010)

Well, I am working on my position on the bike, trying to have that balance between aero and power. If you are willing to indulge me with 3 minutes of your life, here is a video of my old position vs a few small adjustments. One thing that I do know is that i will probably flip the bars under the base bar and use risers to achieve a similar/same pad position, because it seems a bit easier on the wrist


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## tuffguy1500 (Jul 17, 2008)

2 & 4 both look pretty good. Your torso looks much flatter than the first vid, and better than in 1 &3. It doesn't quite look like you're fully resting on your armpads though. That bike appears to fit you much better than your old one. Also, this might be arbitrary, but your hand position when racing/training should be much more relaxed and kind of just resting on top of the aero bars. I basically just leave my forefingers to the inside of the shifters, the rest on the other side just loose. If you can't relax your hands on the bars, you *might* be out of balance by way of bad positioning of the armrests. So:

1. Bring the armpads in just a bit closer to get your upper arms to sit at a near perfect 90* angle.
2. Relax the hands and see what happens.

If'n I were more talented, I'd try to post a video of my postion, but my roller balance is well, it sucks.


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## adam_mac84 (Sep 22, 2010)

tuffguy1500 said:


> . So:
> 
> 1. Bring the armpads in just a bit closer to get your upper arms to sit at a near perfect 90* angle.
> 2. Relax the hands and see what happens.
> ...


Didn't want to bias the opinions, but 4 is my most comfortable... it is also the steepest/farthest forward seat position (also raised a bit to compensate).

I alreay brought the pads back to be closer to under my elbows. Being tall means everything is always maxed out for me based on height/length. I am also going to try flipping the stem and adding 1cm riser under the pads, which will relax my wrists a bit. Resulting in pads being about 1.5 cm lower, but allows a bit more radial deviation of my wrist, but it is pretty good as is in position 4 as far as my hips/torso feel

I do end up holding the shifters between my index/middle finger to relax the hands while riding the bike.


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## hrumpole (Jun 17, 2008)

You might be interested in this...
http://www.bikeradar.com/news/article/how-aero-is-aero-19273/


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## woodys737 (Dec 31, 2005)

adam_mac84 said:


> Didn't want to bias the opinions, but 4 is my most comfortable... it is also the steepest/farthest forward seat position (also raised a bit to compensate).
> 
> I alreay brought the pads back to be closer to under my elbows. Being tall means everything is always maxed out for me based on height/length. I am also going to try flipping the stem and adding 1cm riser under the pads, which will relax my wrists a bit. Resulting in pads being about 1.5 cm lower, but allows a bit more radial deviation of my wrist, but it is pretty good as is in position 4 as far as my hips/torso feel
> 
> I do end up holding the shifters between my index/middle finger to relax the hands while riding the bike.


Call me crazy but your seat looks too high as your hips are rocking and your leg looks to be too extended BDC. Start keeping track of where the tip of saddle to BB center is. Depending on flexibility, flip the stem.


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## adam_mac84 (Sep 22, 2010)

My saddle height on my pro fitted road bike is 85cm from center of bb. I will double check it. Didn't know if that should change given a 3-4 degree change in ST angle. I am going to go out on a longer ride tonight so should help me pick out any issues. I was looking at pics from last weekends tri and it seems like there are about a million different tri fits out there from the amateur world I am sure some are good and some are pretty terrible

I am trying to base the fit on recommendations from Burke's high tech cycling book and the FIST method from ST Forums

thanks for all the input


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