# As new Madones trickle in, can you post links to all reviews here?



## the sky above tar below (Mar 31, 2004)

Hi. I can't wait to read all the reviews about how the new Madones ride. Can everyone post reviews, both professional and personal, here in this thread?


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## Gretzky (Feb 13, 2007)

http://www.cyclingnews.com/tech.php?id=tech/2007/features/trek_madone_launch07


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## kneejerk (Feb 2, 2007)

I saw one up close today, extendedly........ I was very impressed, looks much better in person, very light and rigid looking. Aluminum surely cannot compete with this. It looks revolutionary forsure! The new Race Lite wheels are quite a step forward, looks like they learned very well from earlier designs. It really was a "bang" for me. May have been more than one "bang"! (actually) 

haven't ridden one yet, that will come...........
you can read about it here! www.chainreaction.com


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## chrisnorton (Dec 6, 2006)

Got to ride one around a parking lot (the 5.2 performance). I own a 5.2 SL and they do ride differently. Stiff, extremely stiff, felt lighter and the overall ride quality was 'dreamy'. Sadly they wouldn't let me take it down the road, though they said there will be a demo day very soon, so I'm hoping to get a few miles on one.


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## smw (Mar 7, 2006)

I think I need one.


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## godot (Feb 3, 2004)

*Revolutionary?*

I've been rather cold towards the whole new Madone thing from the start. Seeing one in the shop today did nothing to change that.

Would someone please explain to me why this bike is "revolutionary"?

Trek is 5+ years behind on with a sloping TT bike. They are also a few years behind on the integrated seatpost fad.

A headset is a headset. Integrated, Chris King, whatever. I have an old school Cane Creek non-integrated headset on a bike with a ton of miles on it that is still perfect. The only people that will benefit from the new headset design is the people that install them. Seriously, how often do you mess with your headset?

The new BB - most racing bikes already have very stiff BB's (yes, some of the seriously light climbing bikes don't, but the new Madone isn't that bike) If the new Madone increases BB stiffness by 5% over the already stiff BB of the old bike, is anyone really going to notice?

Weight - really not shockingly light compared to other frames

This whole thing stinks of a serious marketing campaign by Trek. I read the stuff on chain reaction, but really what do you expect them to say "this is the bike we asked trek to build 5 years ago but they wouldn't do it and now that it's here we have to praise it and do a fire sale on our old Madones since we won't be able to sell them if we don't?"

I would really like someone to explain to me why this bike is revolutionary versus Trek making up for being behind the times with their previous designs and lagging sales since Lance retired.


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## the sky above tar below (Mar 31, 2004)

IF the bike is lighter, stiffer, and more comfortable than the previous Madones, wouldn't you agree it's a vast improvement?


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## z ken (Dec 30, 2006)

Lance still prefers the " old " Madone and that mean no alot of people will sell their old Madones and buy the new one since, for me anyway, the main reason i bought the Trek in the first place.


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## the sky above tar below (Mar 31, 2004)

I'm not disputing your point, z ken, but what exactly did Lance say about the new Madone again?


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## bas (Jul 30, 2004)

the sky above said:


> I'm not disputing your point, z ken, but what exactly did Lance say about the new Madone again?


I thought I read he liked this one at the introduction.

http://www.cyclingnews.com/tech.php?id=tech/2007/features/trek_madone_launch07

"Armstrong has long been known for preferring frames with level top tubes, but admitted that, "These guys finally got me to ride a sloping top tube. Even if I were still racing, I would still ride the sloping top tube. It's lively, it's stiff, the ride to me is different from the previous Madone. It feels… more solid."


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## godot (Feb 3, 2004)

*Improvement isn't a Revolution*

"IF the bike is lighter, stiffer, and more comfortable than the previous Madones, wouldn't you agree it's a vast improvement?"

If all this is true, then it's an improvement over Trek's existing designs. That's not the question.

The question is why is this bike revolutionary compared to all the bikes on the market. Every manufacturer updates and improves their designs, they have to if they want to survive in a very competitive market. 

Why is Trek being given a pass on just improving their design (and it could be argued that all they are really doing is catching up). In my opinion there is nothing significantly different on the new Madone when compared to a number of products on the market.


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## z ken (Dec 30, 2006)

" it feels HEAVIER?? " as lance said. hmm so who said it's lighter?? stiffer, may be. lighter?? may be not. just a thought. anyway some of people who actually have tested ride the bikes ( 5.2 and 5.5 ) and they didn't like, well not enough to cash out $ 5k. $ 8.5 k for 6.9 pro??


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## davidka (Dec 12, 2001)

godot said:


> "IF the bike is lighter, stiffer, and more comfortable than the previous Madones, wouldn't you agree it's a vast improvement?"
> 
> If all this is true, then it's an improvement over Trek's existing designs. That's not the question.
> 
> ...


 Well, let's see. It has a seat mast instead of a seatpost. Other brands have done this but not 5 years ago, just last year. Their all save ~50gms but require the user to cut them to length. Would you want to take a hacksaw to a $4k+ frame? The reviews I have read about these integrated designs ALL say no difference in ride quality was noticed. Trek is claiming a 40% increase in vertical compliance. All the other brands that offer this feature only do so in the very top of the line model, Trek offers it through the whole line and it's adjustable so you are not married to the frame because it was cut down just to fit you.

The BB and headset reduce the total parts count by half. No threads, no sleeves, no inserts, just bearings. They use proven crank designs and do not marry the owner to a propreitary crank (Cannondale, Specialized). They have also used the added BB shell real estate to increase the size of the downtube junction and chainstays while allowing excellent tire clearance. The chainstays are also asymetric (did you read the website?). This feature is also offered throughout the whole line, not just the top model.

The fork allows the carbon fiber to travel a nearly straight line fron the legs through the crown to the steerer and requires no crown race or headset cups/inserts. 

As cool as all this sounds for the top end 6.9 model what is getting lost is the 5.2 builds to right around 16lbs out of the box. The price may be a little steep for an ultegra bike but that is LIGHT with no questionable components or superlight wheels (durability).

There is still no carbon construction method that is as proven as OCLV even though it's been around for more than a decade.

If you don't find that revolutionary then I have news for you. As long as bikes have chains and wheels, you will find yourself dissapointed at what will come along in the next 50 years or so. ;-)


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## bas (Jul 30, 2004)

z ken said:


> " it feels HEAVIER?? " as lance said. hmm so who said it's lighter?? stiffer, may be. lighter?? may be not. just a thought. anyway some of people who actually have tested ride the bikes ( 5.2 and 5.5 ) and they didn't like, well not enough to cash out $ 5k. $ 8.5 k for 6.9 pro??


He is heavier. haha


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## QUiTSPiNiNArOuND (Mar 15, 2002)

z ken said:


> Lance still prefers the " old " Madone and that mean no alot of people will sell their old Madones and buy the new one since, for me anyway, the main reason i bought the Trek in the first place.


How do you know Lance still prefers the older model. This may be true, but I have never heard him say he prefers the older model. He has been riding the New Madone for about six months now. I am sure if he didn't like it, or preferred the older design he would just ride him older madone. He rode the Ventoux a couple of weeks ago on the New Madone. I don't believe he was there for any press, therefore he could have rode any bike. Anyway, story goes that an American couple stopped Lance on Ventoux and said they noticed him because of the bike. The new madone he had was all black. He said, "No you didn't," simply because the public had not seen this bike yet. Also when he was riding in, i want to say central park, riders would ask what he was riding as well. The whole story is on www.trekbikes.com/madone in the unveling ceremony video. He also goes on to say that the bike feels heavy which he later on said it was solid. He also said the bike was obviously light as well.


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## kneejerk (Feb 2, 2007)

I test rode the 5.2 Performance Fit '08 Madone yesterday. I was impressed for sure, mainly because it fit me and was a 56cm. I own a '07 54cm Madone, so I was pleased to find the handlebar in a position I prefered (closer and a little more upright). The bike weighed 16lbs with Ultegra compact double (w/o pedals). I really didn't want to stop riding it, it felt really comfortable. Trek's claims of the seat mast compliance seemed to make a difference to me. I was left with the feeling of "wow" that is the bike I could have waited for!


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## z ken (Dec 30, 2006)

so KJ, are you going to buy the bike or wait til 6.9 pro come out??


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## FondriestFan (May 19, 2005)

> If you don't find that revolutionary then I have news for you.


If you really want to see something revolutionary, take a look at Time frames. Insanely expensive, but I heard someone say here that the Madone 6.9 frame/fork will be $5,500, making it more expensive than the Time module.


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## davidka (Dec 12, 2001)

I've seen them. They look nice but I don't see how their claimed technologies do anything for the bike. Seems like smoke and mirrors to me. The bike is essentially carbon fiber plumbing from a construction standpoint (not that there's anything wrong with that, I love Calfees), just not revolutionary. And I still dare anybody here to take the measurements and cut the seat mast. 

The Trek is so appealing to me because the reasoning behind every feature is sensible and sound. Everything about it makes perfect sense. That, in cycling, is revolutionary to me.


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## mtbdcd (Jul 7, 2002)

I agree davidka, really hard to dispute the thought and design Trek put into the new Madone. 
Curious on what the weight difference is between the red(55) and black(110) carbon frames? Also is the red stiffer? Seems like if the prices mentioned were accurate, huge price differences. Although i guess the black models have hearvier forks. Anybody know the weight differences on the forks?


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## daninoa (Jun 15, 2007)

Lance never liked sloping toptube plus he is part owner,i hate the new madone also they should give people the choice to what they wanna ride.


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## daninoa (Jun 15, 2007)

will trek still make a traditional geometry bike?


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## davidka (Dec 12, 2001)

Trek wants to sell bikes. I am betting that the sales of the last Madone told them loud and clear what customers wanted to ride.

Top tubes being level (or not) is not a geometry, it's just a configuration. It makes sense, why build a frame up to a certain height just to have a top tube level with the ground? Like it or not, level top tubes are going the way of the do-do bird. Trek has made the right move here.


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## kneejerk (Feb 2, 2007)

z ken said:


> so KJ, are you going to buy the bike or wait til 6.9 pro come out??


I still haven't exhausted my '07's potential and likely never will. I am not looking for a new ride right now. The '07 is working for me so far (only 200 miles). The '07 is far more compliant than my other bike (see avatar pic) and pounds lighter already. I am not looking for all out, no holds barred performance. If I had the choice between the two bikes today, I would have purchased the '08 Madone over my '07 I currently ride.


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## z ken (Dec 30, 2006)

kj: well you can sell your 07 bike and buy the new madone. right??


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## Gretzky (Feb 13, 2007)

http://pezcyclingnews.com/?pg=fullstory&id=5007&status=True


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## the sky above tar below (Mar 31, 2004)

What does Chain Reaction mean in their review when the refer to the "original Madones"?


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## bas (Jul 30, 2004)

the sky above said:


> What does Chain Reaction mean in their review when the refer to the "original Madones"?


Madone 5.2, Madone 5.9

from what, 2003-2007?

The original are the ones before this model.


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## the sky above tar below (Mar 31, 2004)

Thanks, I thought perhaps the ones with the fins might have been considered the originals.


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## Olancha (Jan 4, 2007)

Levi Leipheimer's Madone
http://www.cyclingnews.com/tech/2007/probikes/?id=levi_leipheimer_discovery_madone


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## trumpetman (Dec 9, 2001)

*Top Tube*

I have an '06 Project 1 Madone 5.9 which obviously has a level top tube and a Frondreist Domino Carbon which has a sloping top tube. Both bikes are set up as closely as I could to be the same. Whether the TT slopes or not seems to make absolutley no difference. Personally, I generally like the traditional look of the level TT but I really like the way the new Madone looks and I think is one of the most attractive bikes I have seen. I wish I was able to ride enough now to justify trading up. 

John


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## z ken (Dec 30, 2006)

after all the buzz and " trash talking " today i personally went to Chain Reaction ( Los Alto hill, California ) to check out the " hot potato ". my first reaction was who the " F " designed this POS?? my gosh!! the worst looking thing since Giants came out with the pink bike. i lift the bike and it " felt " almost the same as my '06 5.2 SL ( and Trek claimed it's almost a pound lighter?? yeah my wallet. heheh ) the color are lame and tasteless ( yuck!! ) the new Bontrager wheels are alright: it seem brighter. the coolest part are definitely BB and no-HS features and so are the new Shimano Ultegra's navy grey?? though i'm glad Trek come out with the " new and improved?? " Madone, that way an 06 and 07 bikes are on great bargain ( you could get 07 5.2 SL, red color, full ultegra triple for $ 1999. WOW!! ) i was looking at 6.5 SSL. it's $ 5200. not bad i was hoping for $ 4k. heheh before i left the store, i asked the saleperson, by the way the sale people at chain reaction are truely professional, how many new madone have they sold?? answer: somewhat of surprise. NONE!!


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## Olancha (Jan 4, 2007)

z ken said:


> after all the buzz and " trash talking " today i personally went to Chain Reaction ( Los Alto hill, California ) to check out the " hot potato ". my first reaction was who the " F " designed this POS?? my gosh!! the worst looking thing since Giants came out with the pink bike. i lift the bike and it " felt " almost the same as my '06 5.2 SL ( and Trek claimed it's almost a pound lighter?? yeah my wallet. heheh ) the color are lame and tasteless ( yuck!! ) the new Bontrager wheels are alright: it seem brighter. the coolest part are definitely BB and no-HS features and so are the new Shimano Ultegra's navy grey?? though i'm glad Trek come out with the " new and improved?? " Madone, that way an 06 and 07 bikes are on great bargain ( you could get 07 5.2 SL, red color, full ultegra triple for $ 1999. WOW!! ) i was looking at 6.5 SSL. it's $ 5200. not bad i was hoping for $ 4k. heheh before i left the store, i asked the saleperson, by the way the sale people at chain reaction are truely professional, how many new madone have they sold?? answer: somewhat of surprise. NONE!!


Did you get to ride it???


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## z ken (Dec 30, 2006)

no i didn't since i'm not planning to buy it. for sure i'm 100% NOT going to buy it now. i couldn've ask them ( sale person ) but didn't bother to waste my time. it's THAT bad. of course this's my personal opinion. the top tube isn't round or oval. it's, what do you call that, oh yeah surf board-like shape, the down tube is even weirder: near the fork/HS area is actually traingle-like shape and slowly to form oval/round as it come to BB area. really weird odd looking bike. the new ISP ( intergrated seatpost ) or Trek called it " mask " is somewhat confusing but i heard you can move up and down for adjustment. the new BB/no-HS are indeed brilliant ideas too bad colors and overall design are no where near the " old " Madone. of the all Madones, Lance's SSLx is the king. too bad i don't have $ 10k.


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## Olancha (Jan 4, 2007)

Okeydokey...


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## Len J (Jan 28, 2004)

*Interesting quote......*



Olancha said:


> Levi Leipheimer's Madone
> http://www.cyclingnews.com/tech/2007/probikes/?id=levi_leipheimer_discovery_madone


'Speaking of the frame, it is interesting to note that while the team frames are labeled as being the top-shelf Madone 6.9 machines, riders are actually competing aboard 'mid-level' models built with Trek's OCLV Black carbon fiber blends and lay-up schedules but that doesn't seem to be slowing any of them down much. 

"We're within 40g of last year's super light [Madone SSL] 6.9 on the frame weight, but we saved some weight on the headset, bottom bracket, and seat mast. That's an aluminum steerer fork, and that just had to do with where we were at with qualification and needing to get the guys their bikes as well. The 6.9 will be produced in October so if everything goes well and the team has a new sponsor then they'll receive them in November or December. We won't be able to qualify the [OCLV] Red series frame until then so they're be racing the Black series frame for the Tour."

Some may view that as an indication that the Discovery Channel riders are at a technological disadvantage for the time being, but even the mid-level model of the new Madone is apparently a substantial enough improvement over last year's top model to justify the change for the elite level athletes, and Leipheimer's machine was not far off from the UCI weight limit anyway. For most, though, that really just means it's now even easier for everyday consumers to have the same equipment as their favorite Discovery Channel rider. "

Len


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## z ken (Dec 30, 2006)

Len: good point. so why can't team disco use the current 6.9 SSL in the tour and then use the new madone ( red ) next season?? one thing is certain if team disco ( Levi or Alberto?? ) doesn't win the tour or overall team don't perform well, the whole new madone thing will go down in flame and so are the sale. with that said i do want team disco to win. may be i might jump ship and buy other bike if disco would fail miserably.


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## Olancha (Jan 4, 2007)

Sounds like a push by Trek to get exposure on the new Madone during the Tour. I agree with you z ken that it is somewhat of a gamble for Discovery to change bikes at this stage of the season.


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## the sky above tar below (Mar 31, 2004)

"but even the mid-level model of the new Madone is apparently a substantial enough improvement over last year's top model to justify the change for the elite level"

According to the quote, the black series of the New Madone is better than the 6.9 SSL.


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## Len J (Jan 28, 2004)

*Lol......*



the sky above said:


> "but even the mid-level model of the new Madone is apparently a substantial enough improvement over last year's top model to justify the change for the elite level"
> 
> According to the quote, the black series of the New Madone is better than the 6.9 SSL.


what would you expect them to say? Especially in light of there inability to get the new 6.9 ready until Oct/Nov?

"Let's see..."We know it's not as good as last years 6.9 but it's all we have right now and we want to sell some so we have to get Discovery on the new frame for the TDF (or we won't sell any)......so we'll just give them a mid-level and label it a 6.9." "Trust us!"

Len


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## the sky above tar below (Mar 31, 2004)

So, let me get this right: you believe a professional TDF racer would ride a bike that would make him slower and make him work harder in the tour than his previous bike? So he can be an advertisement? Do you think a pro would tolerate this?


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## Olancha (Jan 4, 2007)

I don't think that the biggest concern is so much the performance difference between the red series or black series carbon, but making the bike change right before the Tour. For example, Levi's had to adapt to the old Madone and now he has to do it over with the new Madone, plus it's probably the most stressful time of the year to be changing team bikes. It appears like the marketing types are driving this ... I hope all goes well for the team. Sorry for going off topic.


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## Len J (Jan 28, 2004)

*So, who.........*



the sky above said:


> So, let me get this right: you believe a professional TDF racer would ride a bike that would make him slower and make him work harder in the tour than his previous bike? So he can be an advertisement? Do you think a pro would tolerate this?


exactly on Discovery has enough clout to not ride the team bike? 

I'm sure there is a provision in all their contracts requiring them to ride whatever they are given. A pro tolerates whatever the sponsors tell him to tolerate....if he wants to ride....unless he is someone like lane or Boonen.

Len


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## smw (Mar 7, 2006)

Olancha said:


> I don't think that the biggest concern is so much the performance difference between the red series or black series carbon, but making the bike change right before the Tour. For example, Levi's had to adapt to the old Madone and now he has to do it over with the new Madone, plus it's probably the most stressful time of the year to be changing team bikes. It appears like the marketing types are driving this ... I hope all goes well for the team. Sorry for going off topic.



They have been riding and testing the new bikes for months. It will not be a factor in the tour. These guys are pro's and any minor changes are not gonna change their race. Any time a company changes a bike/car/ whatever, some love it and others question it. We dont like change. It'll grow on you, and if it doesnt there is always Cannondale or Cervelo.


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## Olancha (Jan 4, 2007)

smw said:


> They have been riding and testing the new bikes for months. It will not be a factor in the tour. These guys are pro's and any minor changes are not gonna change their race. Any time a company changes a bike/car/ whatever, some love it and others question it. We dont like change. It'll grow on you, and if it doesnt there is always Cannondale or Cervelo.


From http://www.cyclingnews.com/tech/2007/probikes/?id=levi_leipheimer_discovery_madone
_...according to team liaison Ben Coates, the response has been positive ...: "The feedback has been really good. They're not a hugely talkative bunch about stuff; you get an 'it's better', 'I like it', 'it's stiff', 'it descends nice'. At first, when we first gave one to Popovych, he was immediately like, 'it's better, I like it better than the old bike.' A couple of other guys, Levi included, said, 'well, I only have a little bit of time on one. I need to ride it some more before I really know, but I like it.' So, to bundle all of the comments I've gotten together, they say it's stiff, it descends really nice, it feels more lively on the climb, and it's more comfortable. If they didn't like it, I'd hear about it."_

It doesn't sound like Levi has that much time on the new Madone. Everything may work out fine, but I still think it's best to change team bikes during the winter or the start of the season. Armstrong aggravated a hip during one of the Tours when he changed equipment (shoes and cranks) a little before the race, http://www.velonews.com/tour2004/tech/articles/6501.0.html. This just shows the type of trouble you can get into...better to find these things out during the winter.

The new Madone looks fine to me...others have voiced their displeasure with the new design. I just question the timing of its introduction to the team riders.


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## z ken (Dec 30, 2006)

i think Trek just want to sell the new madone as much as possible before the tour. what if Levi would looses by less than minute, would everyone question team disco. not going with 6.9 SSL??


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## Olancha (Jan 4, 2007)

z ken said:


> i think Trek just want to sell the new madone as much as possible before the tour. what if Levi would looses by less than minute, would everyone question team disco. not going with 6.9 SSL??


If he gets some type of joint or muscle flare-up there will probably be questions.


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## z ken (Dec 30, 2006)

yeah i agree that team disco is taking a big gamble here ( switching bike a month before the tour ) i thought Levi was riding comfortably with 6.9 SSL with win at TOC and overall team disco WAS riding great. why changed?? so they can cash in the new Madone.


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## azuredrptp (Feb 8, 2006)

z ken said:


> before i left the store, i asked the saleperson, by the way the sale people at chain reaction are truely professional, how many new madone have they sold?? answer: somewhat of surprise. NONE!!



You're so FULL OF BULL****, you might have gotten away with your other rants about ulgy, heavy, whatever... but now I know you're full of bull with that last statement.


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## bas (Jul 30, 2004)

the sky above said:


> Hi. I can't wait to read all the reviews about how the new Madones ride. Can everyone post reviews, both professional and personal, here in this thread?


I saw a Madone 5.5SL at the bike shop. $3699 I think.










Trek shows DuraAce crank 53/39 spec'd, but the one in the store had a bontrager crank with bontrager crank arms.

Trek shows MSRP $4069.99*

That down tube bottom bracket area is WIDE.. damn... I never saw anything so big.

Does that hurt aero dynamics any?


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## uzziefly (Jul 15, 2006)

smw said:


> I think I need one.


No one ever _needs_ a new bike.


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## blehargh (Mar 17, 2004)

azuredrptp said:


> You're so FULL OF BULL****, you might have gotten away with your other rants about ulgy, heavy, whatever... but now I know you're full of bull with that last statement.


Actually, he's not full of BS. Chain Reaction right now only has two sizes in stock (tho more are coming in). And only 2 models right now. (Not sure when the 6's are coming out). Also it's only been a week since they've been there. These are only Performance models too as the Pro fit ones don't come out until Sept. I think most people who know about the new Madones and would want a new bike RIGHT NOW would want the top of the line, pro fit models.

Also, just generally, Most people that walk into a bike shop don't know about new models that are coming out. Also there are some really nice deals on older Madones that are basically the same setup as the new ones for 1200 less. And while I agree that the new Madone is improved in many ways, 1200 is a lot of money for the casual rider. People love deals.

anyhow, there's a buzz around the Madone for good reason, but it's not an iPhone. 

GL,
-don


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## azuredrptp (Feb 8, 2006)

blehargh said:


> Actually, he's not full of BS. Chain Reaction right now only has two sizes in stock (tho more are coming in). And only 2 models right now.


He actually is full of ****, because he claims they haven't sold any (among all his other claims about the new bike). I can tell you for sure, that Steve has. Ask me how I know.


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## z ken (Dec 30, 2006)

azure: call chain reaction and see if they've sold any of NEW Madone. i'm not lying. infact some of stores will have a demo this weekend, i think. so alot of people are waiting for either 6.9 or wait until levi and team disco choke on the tour so the new Madone will be much lower in pricetage. with that said i DO want Levi and team disco to do well.


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## SilasCL (Jun 14, 2004)

Are you serious?

Unless Levi wins, which would be a nice boon to Trek's marketing, no one will care whether he comes in 2nd or 10th at Trek HQ. They sponsor a big team for exposure and to be able to command a premium pricetag on their bikes. Giant, Pinarello, Colnago, Time, etc. all do the same and charge similar amounts for their bikes, whether they're having a really good season or a not so good season. Lance was responsible for a huge increase in the amount of roadies, and when they saw him win they went to buy a Trek. That was an isolated situation, the ebbs and flows of the various teams year to year have little impact on sales.


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## davidka (Dec 12, 2001)

z ken said:


> Len: good point. so why can't team disco use the current 6.9 SSL in the tour and then use the new madone ( red ) next season?? one thing is certain if team disco ( Levi or Alberto?? ) doesn't win the tour or overall team don't perform well, the whole new madone thing will go down in flame and so are the sale. with that said i do want team disco to win. may be i might jump ship and buy other bike if disco would fail miserably.


 You're going to switch bikes if Discovery doesn't do well at the Tour?
Is the only reason that you like your current bike is because of the race results that you've read about?

Really?


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## azuredrptp (Feb 8, 2006)

z ken said:


> azure: call chain reaction and see if they've sold any of NEW Madone. i'm not lying.


last chance........


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## z ken (Dec 30, 2006)

Sila: like you said lance was responsible for huge increase in sale of trek bike. what if lance didn't win the tour or never return to racing after his cancer battle or worst scenario he dies from his cancer ( which very possible at that time ) wouldn't every American, well majority, be riding Lemonds?? so how important of levi or Alberto?? winning the tour?? you already know the impact it'll have on the sale of the new madone. not to mention current team disco haven't have team sponsor next season. so i bet there're alot of pressure for Levi and company for atleast making the top 3 if not winning it all. if vino and Valverde would falther..hmm should be a wild open tour.


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## azuredrptp (Feb 8, 2006)

z ken said:


> i'm not lying.


None eh?


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## z ken (Dec 30, 2006)

azure: i didn't question your input but i did asked the saleperson and he told me they haven't sold any bike as of last week ( June, 20th ) may be i should've ask Mike ( store owner ) himself. my bad!! i'm glad someone did throw out $ 4K and hope he really enjoy it. for sure i'll pass on the new madone.


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## azuredrptp (Feb 8, 2006)

z ken said:


> azure: i didn't question your input but i did asked the saleperson and he told me they haven't sold any bike as of last week ( June, 20th ) may be i should've ask Mike ( store owner ) himself. my bad!! i'm glad someone did throw out $ 4K and hope he really enjoy it. for sure i'll pass on the new madone.


But I definitely question _*your input*_. You lied about what they supposedly said to you, which I know you made up. Because Steve, the owner of the chain you went to, had this for me on the 15th. He had to get it from Mike because it was up in redwood city, so Mike knew it was sold too. So go ask Mike... 

So I now ask you, why did you feel the need to lie? :blush2:


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## z ken (Dec 30, 2006)

what!!??


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## allons-y (Nov 15, 2006)

azure - trying to talk in a logical manner with z ken is like trying to reason with a 2 year old, it just aint gonna happen. read some of his older posts. he will just sort of be dismissive and attempt to change the subject whenever you try to call him on something. then again, someone who bases their bike selection on proteam results prbly isnt the most logical person in the world to begin with. 

no offense z ken, im just stating my experiences in having read some of your posts.

i present this thread, my experience. doesn't really get good till page 2, and beyond page 4 im pretty sure I stopped following. 

http://forums.roadbikereview.com/showthread.php?t=89134


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## z ken (Dec 30, 2006)

and you don't follow proteam(s ) or who wins or loose?? guess you're not 100% die-hard fan like myself. sorry no offense intended.


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## allons-y (Nov 15, 2006)

z ken said:


> and you don't follow proteam(s ) or who wins or loose?? guess you're not 100% die-hard fan like myself. sorry no offense intended.


Never said that. I check up on a few cycling websites for the bigger races from time to time, however I spend more time riding my bike each day than I do pretty much anything else other than sleeping. I couldn't tell you who won some random developmental squad race in poland yesterday. I could tell you who won some of the bigger races, and I follow them when I have time. I watch my cyclosm sundays dutifully. Am I a die-hard fan? Compared to you, probably not. Compared to the avg-american, I know a heck of alot more I would think. Compared to the average cyclist, I am probably pretty average I guess. And I'm ok with that. I don't have my favorite riders name tatoo'd onto my body, and I don't know the names of all of hardly any of the guys who fetch bidons all day. I do know some of the bigger names. Am I a cycling fan, certainly. 

And your comment somewhat proves my point. I said, that for someone to BASE THEIR CHOICE OF BICYCLE ON A PRO TEAM'S RESULT WAS SOMEWHAT RIDICULOUS. I even highlighted it for you. As many would tell you, many factors should come before the fact that disco or csc or saunier or t-mob or heck even slipstream or WHATEVER pro team you favor (I'm personally a lampre fanm yet I could only really name like 5-6 riders on the team) winning or loosing would make you buy or a sell your bike. How do you respond to my point, but not answering it one bit. A response to the point would be something like "I take more into consideration than disco's tour results into my bike selection"....although this would contradict an earlier post in this thread you made. Or you could say "I really really love pro cycling and want to ride what my favorite team rides" Nothing wrong with that, maybe a bit further than I would personally go (don't see me on a wilier) but if you are a die hard fan, then good on ya. I am not going to put words in your mouth, only you know what makes you happy, those were just some sample "replys" to peoples points/questions

I really dont want to get into a argument with you zken, I realize I prbly went too far and attacked you, but was just trying to make a point. For attacking you, I am sorry. 

Anyways, its past my bedtime, I have tonsilitis and my doctors won't let me ride for 2 weeks (1 down, 1 to go....I guess my comment about riding more than anything else isn't exactly true for this 2 week period) but I need sleep to get better, so that I will do.

Peace.


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## z ken (Dec 30, 2006)

no sweat here. heheh i'll admit and have done so before the MAIN reason i brought Trek b/c of lance. now lance has retired i might jump ship and join Cervelo ( CSC ) then again Cervelo is made in Canada and i'm 100% all-American so tough decision ahead. so i really do hope Levi would wins at all. get well soon.


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## SilasCL (Jun 14, 2004)

Durr, everyone knows the best bikes in the world are, in this order:

Cervelo
Cannondale
BMC
Trek
B'Twin
Scott
Pinarello
Colnago
Specialized
Ridley

See the latest protour rankings: http://www.cyclingnews.com/road.php?id=road/rankings/2007/protour


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## Guest (Jun 27, 2007)

SilasCL said:


> They sponsor a big team for exposure and to be able to command a premium pricetag on their bikes. Giant, Pinarello, Colnago, Time, etc. all do the same and charge similar amounts for their bikes,


Are you sure all pro-tour teams get free bikes? I thought I read somewhere that Colnago for one, do not give free bikes to teams....everybody pays.


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## davidka (Dec 12, 2001)

Pro Tour teams all get paid to ride the bikes they do. Nobody in the Pro Tour pays for bikes.

Cervelos are not made in Canada, they are made in China.

z-ken, don't watch any bicycle racing for a year and then do your research and pick a bike that way. Picking what you're going to ride based on what your favorite rider/team uses is silly. There is WAY more important things to consider than that.


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## z ken (Dec 30, 2006)

david: due all respect i wear Nike b/c M.J and ride Trek b/c of Lance and heck i want to buy Cadillac b/c of Tiger Woods. too bad i don't have $ 50K. bummer!! you get my point. i don't care if the " products " are good or average, in this case all three companies are top quality, thanks godness, i just want to wear/ride/drive what the best do. it's just my thing. i know it's not going to make me run or ride faster but atleast i know i'll be the best looking one. heheh about Cervelo being made in China have NO impact on my decison as long as team CSC keep winning. well i've NOT jump ship yet + Cervelos aren't cheap.


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## waterloo (Nov 8, 2005)

> and heck i want to buy Cadillac b/c of Tiger Woods


Tiger is sponsored by Buick, not Cadillac.


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## z ken (Dec 30, 2006)

oh my bad i should cancel my order of 08 cadillac. heheh


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## SilasCL (Jun 14, 2004)

the_rydster said:


> Are you sure all pro-tour teams get free bikes? I thought I read somewhere that Colnago for one, do not give free bikes to teams....everybody pays.


My understanding is that they both supply the bikes for free AND pay some piece of the team's overall budget.

Ask yourself, why would Rabobank ride Colnago if it cost them a dime. 10 other companies could produce a pro-level bike and pay them for it.


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## travelingmike (May 22, 2007)

*marketing*

I have an older madone, never liked it too much. Revolutionary this new bike is? I have a new bike- Cervelo R3-I will never buy a trek again. Unlike my first rode bike I rode it first and was amazed-yes there is alot of hype about this bike but it is from people who have bought it and most of them have ridden lots of other bikes. I bought a trek in the first place , well, because lance rode it, everybody else had one, and I was buying my first rode bike. I got my dura ace R3 for about 4,000$. There are alot of other bikes you should check out before following the hype. I have had great rides on my Trek but always felt the bike worked against me. My cervelo lets me feel that I am the only thing holding me back-which is enough. I have also heard good about the Look bicycles and the BMC,Felt, etc.-try them. Don't jump on the bandwagon until you are sure the Trek works best for you.


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## davidka (Dec 12, 2001)

z ken, I didn't mean to take a jab at you, I just think that if you let go of the marketing hype (Lance, MJ, Tiger, etc.) and consider what YOU need and what will work best for YOU, you will have an even better ownership experience. I am a big Lance fan too but I have learned over the years what works best for me. I, like you, believe that it is tough to buy a bad product these days but it is still easy to buy the wrong, good product. This is especially important for shoes/clothing. Nike fits how they fit and if it's wrong for your foot then it will be slower. I think you know what I mean, I just like seeing informed folks enjoying stuff that works well for them, whoever made it.


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## z ken (Dec 30, 2006)

david: yeah i do have a pair of shoes from Payless shoe store ( $ 12 ) i mainly use it for walking around the park near my house after long bike ride or weekend. so i guess we do find some bargain at target's or walmart. heck i even own a Pacific bike from Walmart ( $ 60 ) it served me well for a quick errand to 7-11 or quick stop mini market.


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## crumjack (Sep 11, 2005)

I hear the new Madone is selling like hotcakes in Belgium since Stijn Devolder won Nationals on it!


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## z ken (Dec 30, 2006)

i thought Belgium belong to Boonen ( Specialized ) err since his back flared up that scared some buyers, i guess. where can i find out which bike manufacture sold most bikes annually?? like to know last couple years' top saler ( 06-07 ) i'm guessing Cervelo, Colnago and Trek??


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## Trek_envy (Jun 15, 2004)

I bought a Trek because for what I wanted, ad the fit of the bike - NO OTHER brand could come close to the price.

I could have chosen any bike that I wanted.


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## unagidon (Jun 16, 2007)

Seriously considering 08 Madone 5.2, 5.1 (performance fit), or 07 Pilot 5.2 spa. any thoughts?


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## z ken (Dec 30, 2006)

unagidon: well buying the new Madone will sure give you some bling during your club ride eventhough i don't like the new madone.


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## footballcat (Jul 8, 2004)

they are selling like hotcakes where i live, cant wait to get one


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## unagidon (Jun 16, 2007)

I'm very curious about how the geometry of the new madone perf. fit will feel vs. the pilot geometry. They say it's not the same, but when you compare the numbers and geometry charts, they are so similar! On the other hand, my lbs offered me $2.3K on an 07 5.2 spa, which is $900 off MSRP. Very attractive... Decisions, decisions...


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## FondriestFan (May 19, 2005)

davidka said:


> z ken, I didn't mean to take a jab at you, I just think that if you let go of the marketing hype (Lance, MJ, Tiger, etc.) and consider what YOU need and what will work best for YOU, you will have an even better ownership experience. I am a big Lance fan too but I have learned over the years what works best for me. I, like you, believe that it is tough to buy a bad product these days but it is still easy to buy the wrong, good product. This is especially important for shoes/clothing. Nike fits how they fit and if it's wrong for your foot then it will be slower. I think you know what I mean, I just like seeing informed folks enjoying stuff that works well for them, whoever made it.


This is from the same guy who called Time carbon fiber plumbing. That pretty much solidifies that you have zero clue about what you're speaking. Have you even seen a Time, or are you just shilling for Trek?


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## WhiskeyNovember (May 31, 2003)

FondriestFan, your posts are consistently abrasive, disrespectful, defensive, and immature. 

If you disagree with someone, that's fine..... butexplain your position in a respectful, friendly manner. This way, you'll be contributing to a constructive discussion. 

Shocking as it may be, expressing preference for Trek does not automatically relegate one to the status of a "shilling" kool-aid drinker. You regularly suggest otherwise, and whether you realize it or not, in doing so, you're building a less-than-flattering reputation for yourself on these forums. 

Finally, I'll point out that Davidka's level of knowledge and experience is much higher than many here realize. He most certainly is not clueless about that which he speaks. You, Fondriestfan, could learn a lot if you made the effort to open your mind and have some respect.


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## FondriestFan (May 19, 2005)

WhiskeyNovember said:


> FondriestFan, your posts are consistently abrasive, disrespectful, defensive, and immature.
> 
> If you disagree with someone, that's fine..... butexplain your position in a respectful, friendly manner. This way, you'll be contributing to a constructive discussion.
> 
> ...


Right, criticizing you for shilling for Trek and davidka for yapping about Time frames is "disrespectful"? Get real. I couldn't care less if you or davidka's view of my "reputation" on this forum. You're blatantly shilling for a company on here. davidka's comments about "carbon fiber plumbing" pretty much show his level of knowledge. If you're coming on here to pimp a product, then you should expect people to question you on it.

And I'm not criticizing anyone for preferring Trek. That's not what davidka was doing and not what you were doing when you posted that garbage about having 4 cateyes break in one month. I have no preference for one brand. I own a Giant, a Time, two Fondriests, and a no-name Taiwanese frame. I ride what I like. I like the new Madones, and I'd buy the 6.9 Pro. The only negative about Trek is insecure fanboys who try to pimp them as the greatest thing since Lance signed their jerseys.


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## 52-16SS (Dec 16, 2002)

FondriestFan said:


> only negative about Trek is insecure fanboys who try to pimp them as the greatest thing since Lance signed their jerseys.


I think I love you.


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## acid_rider (Nov 23, 2004)

*I have both Madone and Time and they are just fine, thanks.*



davidka said:


> I've seen them. They look nice but I don't see how their claimed technologies do anything for the bike. Seems like smoke and mirrors to me. The bike is essentially carbon fiber plumbing from a construction standpoint (not that there's anything wrong with that, I love Calfees), just not revolutionary. And I still dare anybody here to take the measurements and cut the seat mast.
> 
> The Trek is so appealing to me because the reasoning behind every feature is sensible and sound. Everything about it makes perfect sense. That, in cycling, is revolutionary to me.


FWIW, I am neutral.

I have OCLV 110 Madone 5.9 (2005, 54cm) and a Time Edge First 2007, 53cm (Small). But are fine bikes when it comes to carbon tubes, IMO. 

It is much a question of frame geometry and fit for a *given rider* than the carbon tubes now in 2007. If I had to lay my money down then Time wins *for me* because its seat tube angle is full 1 degree slacker than Madone and, IMO, more riders (statistically speaking) will find more comfort on slacker angled frames. New Madone is even worse, in size 54cm it is now a super steep 74.2STA (old model was steep 74 degrees). I think this is the wrong way to go. Sure some folks (TT, Tri and those with super-stiff bodies) might fit well on steep STA frames but the majority of riders may be fighting to move their saddles back on rails and find the limit of 20mm set-back Madone 2008 seat-post. This was my problem in 2005, solved by FSA 32mm set-back post. And you cant have that on new Madone due to custom seat-post. 

On Time with 73 STA my saddle is in the middle rail position. Just right. This is the most important thing, not what the tubes look like when they are cut up.


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## chasingpixels (Jul 16, 2007)

I've spent the last few months sampling some great bikes via Competitive Cyclist's demo program. BMC Pro Machine, Cervelo Carbon Soloist and most recently the Pinarello Paris Carbon. My LBS, Trek San Jose, had the Trek demo tour stop by a couple of Sundays back and I rode a "performance fit" Madone 08 for 30 minutes.

Curiously the bike was set up to emulate the "pro fit" with the stem dropped below three headset spacers (apparently most riders wanting to demo it were interested in the pro fit), Kitted out with Ultegra SL the bike was smooth and responsive. I liked it, though it presented itself as rather plain cosmetically (and I like the stealth look of my Trek 7.9fx)

I do think that technologically they've assembled some great new features and simplified some of the mechanicals but subjectively I wasn't wow'd by the bike. Admittedly 30 minutes is not nearly long enough to get the feel for a bike.

That said my ride impressions of all these bikes in short order would be. Cervelo (1), BMC (2), Trek (3), Pinarello (4). I'd happily ride a new Madone though if it were left on my doorstep ;-) I need a second job to support this habit.


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## davidka (Dec 12, 2001)

Fondreist Fan, I think you might have taken my comment on the Time's construction method a little personally. If you noticed, I followed that with a comment that I loved Calfee's bikes which are constructed in a similar manner. If you are happy with your Time as many riders are, then I am glad. 

By the way, this is the Trek forum. You should expect to find Trek fans here.


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## jamie mannion (May 25, 2002)

*Madone Performance vs Pro*

Has anyone ridden both the Pro and the Performance? I am intrigued by the Performance, but have ridden a standard race bike for 30 years. I don't want to get a performance and be disappointed on our club race pace rides or regional races. On the other hand, I am seldom in the drops. I usually am on the brake hoods, even when pulling. Maybe the performance would be a better overall fit. I test rode a 56cm Performance 5.2 and liked it, but did not feel as streched out as I had expected. My LBS does not have a 58cm, so I will have to wait to see if that works better. I certainly don't want to pay that kind of money and regret the choice in a month or so.

One other question. I ride a Giant TCR Zero, medium. I sometimes think that it is a little snug (top tube too short), especially on descents. I am six feet, size 33 inseam, and have a long torso. It seems like I could go with either a 56 or a 58. My LBS has a 56 in stock and they think a longer stem would do the trick. My thoughts are that the 58 with the standard stem would be better. Any opinions out there?

Thanks for the info. I is great to hear and see what others are thiking about the new Madone.


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## remixity (Jul 30, 2007)

jamie mannion said:


> One other question. I ride a Giant TCR Zero, medium. I sometimes think that it is a little snug (top tube too short), especially on descents. I am six feet, size 33 inseam, and have a long torso. It seems like I could go with either a 56 or a 58. My LBS has a 56 in stock and they think a longer stem would do the trick. My thoughts are that the 58 with the standard stem would be better. Any opinions out there?


Definitely sounds like the 58cm is better, unless you like a sore neck and lower back pain.


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