# Toes Numb, new shoes????



## Zak (Mar 23, 2009)

I picked up a used Cannondale Synapse Sport a few months ago and simply love riding it, except for one thing my toes start to get numb after about 4 miles. I'm on my third pair of shoes, and each has done hte same thing. Tried it with heavy/midweight/lightweight and no socks. FInally broke down and took my bike to the LBS, Performance Bikes in Paoli. I've had great service from them in the past. During my fitting, the guy adjusted the seat a little, the stem a bit, and said one of the big issues is that with the SPD pedals I had my knees were pointing out a little when I rode because I could not adjust the cleats side to side/angle. So I bought a pair of Look style pedals hoping this would solve the problem. the guy put the cleats onto my riding shoes, Shimano SH-R076L's and everything felt great at the store. Getting out of the new pedals is a challenge but I'll get use to them.

During the ride overall everything felt very good until I started back. I usually only do a 9 mile round trip ride as my toes get so numb and it drives me nuts plus I usually do this during my lunch break and I'm a bit out of shape so the 9 miles takes me just under half a hour there and back. Toes felt good until the last 2 miles then the final hill they were hurting. When I got home and took the shoes off my toes instantly went numb/asleep/tingling. It's driving me NUTS!!!

I love riding, but cannot figure out what to do. A friend that owns a bike shop suggest I look at carbon shoes as with my hieght/weight (6', 250LBS) and my leg power (use to do power lifting) I might be putting to much stress on the shoes and they are causing my toes to go numb. 

Any thoughts? Since I bought my shoes at Performance, I can return them anytime so I'll have $90 to exchange towards new shoes. I really can't afford much more than $150.


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## goat 834 (Jun 28, 2009)

Hey Zak I get that sometimes. For me its from pedaling on the outside of my feet. If I concentrate and push completely flat on the pedal it doesn't happen. Just a thought. I can only imagine after 3 pairs of shoes and different pedals that its you not the equipment. Just my opinion don't shoot.


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## 180 (Jan 10, 2009)

Both my feet have gone completely numb before. Depending on how cold the ride is is a huge factor for me. Also if your shoes don't fit properly. I had mine too tight. Ever since I began leaving them loose I haven't had any problems. I also had some PI sox that squeezed the hell out of my dogs. Wear comfortable stuff that isn't restricting. And like the poster before me said, try not to put too much pressure on your feets. Try to disperse your weight evenly. Let your legs do the work, stay light on the pedals. You may also want to gear down and up your cadence. Too much pressure in a high gear can lead to knee probs as well.


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## grrlyrida (Aug 3, 2006)

I use to get big toe pain and numbness. Then I found out about superfeet insoles from one of the thread on RBR. What a difference. It completely disappeared and I do 25 to 50 mile rides. If you pick the wrong pair you can send them back without any problem. They also have consultants to talk with over the phone. Try those instead of changing shoes. I think you'll notice a difference.


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## EricMPeterson (Jul 24, 2009)

I was going to ask the same question because I have the same problem. I am a former mountain biker and I didn't usually have this problem mountain biking. I think everyone's advice is probably accurate. I think for me the seat position would help. I think I am putting pressure on my femoral artery which is causing loss of blood to my toes. You might think about when you ride if there is a lot of pressure in that area. Not sure if that helps. 
Eric


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## 180 (Jan 10, 2009)

Yeah that's another possibility for sure. My brother is a doc and he asked me about my seat when I mentioned this to him. I switched from a flatter Bontrager to a Terry gel seat. I think I'm putting much less pressure on those nerves up and around the saddle area as well.


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## Blue CheeseHead (Jul 14, 2008)

1.) Move the cleats back on your shoes
2.) Make sure you don't strap your shoes on too tight.


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## PJ352 (Dec 5, 2007)

*+1*



Blue CheeseHead said:


> 1.) Move the cleats back on your shoes
> 2.) Make sure you don't strap your shoes on too tight.


Although there can be contributing factors, (ex: pushing out on the downstroke), IME these two items are the primary remedies. You mentioned the numbness after climbing 'the final hill', so I'd also suggest maintaining adaquate cadence, thus lightening the load on your feet. Hard to pin a number on it, but IMO a minimum of 80 would be ballpark.


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## kykr13 (Apr 12, 2008)

Blue CheeseHead said:


> 2.) Make sure you don't strap your shoes on too tight.


Especially the front strap by your toes. Try it just a little loose and see if that helps. If you have three straps, the middle one should be just a little tighter - take the slack out of it, basically. Keep your foot in place with the last strap closest to your ankle. And think about your pedal stroke as you're riding - all of this has helped me and it doesn't cost anything to try.

I just bought a set of the Specialized BG footbeds on a friend's recommendation because I was starting to get hot foot on long rides. They're $50 insoles, plus shipping if you don't happen to have a local dealer. Seemed like a ripoff but I tried them and they're just incredible...


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## Zak (Mar 23, 2009)

In the past, i've done just about every combo with the straps and tightning them. I'll continue to mess with them and test different socks etc. 

Great tips about trying to focus on pedaling. I have not thought about that, as before I bought the clipless pedals I just had platforms and used my sneakers. I could easily do 10+ miles without issues iwth my toes. As soon as I started using new pedals and shoes my toes started getting numb. 

I had thought about buying insoles as my toes do not seem to touch the shoes. My big toe does but the rest seem to float a bit and I have to concentrate to get them to touch. Though that maybe an insole would give my whole foot better contact with the shoe.


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## PJ352 (Dec 5, 2007)

Zak said:


> In the past, i've done just about every combo with the straps and tightning them. I'll continue to mess with them and test different socks etc.
> 
> Great tips about trying to focus on pedaling. I have not thought about that, as before I bought the clipless pedals I just had platforms and used my sneakers. I could easily do 10+ miles without issues iwth my toes. As soon as I started using new pedals and shoes my toes started getting numb.
> 
> I had thought about buying insoles as my toes do not seem to touch the shoes. My big toe does but the rest seem to float a bit and I have to concentrate to get them to touch. Though that maybe an insole would give my whole foot better contact with the shoe.


Sure, platforms and sneakers allow for sloppy pedaling styles. Clipless aren't nearly as forgiving. 

Taking kykr13's suggestion a step further, Specialized also offers shims that you might want to consider. I hedged on recommending the footbeds and/ or shims because (ideally) you'd get Spec's BG FIT (3rd option) prior, because it identifies the need for them, but it's costly. 

Here's the link to the footbeds/ shims (scroll to the bottom)
http://www.specialized.com/us/en/bc/SBCEqSection.jsp?sid=EquipShoesRoad&eid=342

Here's a link to the BG FIT:
http://cdn.specialized.com/bc/microsite/bgfit/bgfit.html


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## kykr13 (Apr 12, 2008)

PJ352 said:


> I hedged on recommending the footbeds and/ or shims


The footbeds come with a set of the shims, and a lot of warnings about using them (they could _easily_ cause more harm than good). My problem (so far) has been fixed without the shims so I'm holding off on even trying them, but they do give a lot of advice for how to tell if you need them and which ones to try from the set. However, a real professional fit is by far a better choice and personally I'd wait for that before trying the shims. 

The guy behind the whole BG thing is Andy Pruitt and this book of his is really helpful. It's a little bit of a "sales tool" but not bad...


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## austincrx (Oct 22, 2008)

have you tried cycling socks? I'm guessing, but just thought i'd ask. My first pair of shoes had no padding in the bottom and caused my feet pain. i had to put a sole insert in them. I used the cheapest, slimmest ones i could find (ones you cut out). They did the trick. i've since switched to spec. BG shoes and saddle, have to get used to things, takes about 200-300 miles for me, although the seat felt immediately better.


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## Zak (Mar 23, 2009)

I have a few pairs of NLZ socks. I think that is their name, they are advertised on the specials page.

What works best, is to use one of the NLZ/cycling sock on my left root and bare foot on the right. I look odd but it works. I'm going out tomorrow morning and will concentrate on my technique and see if how well that works. As well as losening the straps.


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## sgt (Apr 17, 2007)

Blue CheeseHead said:


> 1.) Move the cleats back on your shoes
> 2.) Make sure you don't strap your shoes on too tight.


+1

I'll add two more:

3. Ride more (fitness helps this)

4. Work on your pedaling technique (smooth, round, high cadence, heels down)

I had this problem for the first year and a half back on the bike; now it's an occasional nuisance I can eliminate if I do all the above, even if it happens during a long ride.


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## Guest (Jul 24, 2009)

Blue CheeseHead said:


> 1.) Move the cleats back on your shoes
> 2.) Make sure you don't strap your shoes on too tight.



Moving the cleats back a little at a time is what I would suggest as a first step as well. That usually takes care of it for me if I have any problems when moving to new shoes.


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## Zak (Mar 23, 2009)

I took my shoes back to Performance Bike and they let me exchange them. I picked up these, Shimano SH-R160G. Carbon, my size and fit great. I paid $90 for my shoes, so I had that for credit. Shoes were on sale for $125 down from $220, plus 15% off and the manager gave me a few other discounts and I paid a whopping $2 to upgrade. Looking forward to trying them out tomorrow.


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## Zak (Mar 23, 2009)

sgt said:


> +1
> 
> I'll add two more:
> 
> ...


This is something I need to work on as I tend to pedal with my toes pointed down a little. With my mountainbike and sneakers I never had any issues, even with 20+ mile rides. 

Today I went out for my pathetic 7 mile ride with my new shoes.  I has hoping for an improvement but it was worse. I need to play to the cleats. I have them almost all the way back but there may be anohter 1/4" to go. My right toes were tingling after only 3 1/2 miles. Truely pathetic because as a teen, I rode 25+ miles a day to and from work with a POS bike without any issues. Usully with a big gulp in hand. 

I also need to find another LBS to help me work on my pedaling etc as something is drastically wrong with my pedaling/bike fit. Toes going numb, and lately my, we franks and beans, are hurting. I simply love being on my bike but very tired of the all the issues. I want to get out and ride but what a pain in the arse.


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## 180 (Jan 10, 2009)

Zak said:


> I also need to find another LBS to help me work on my pedaling etc as something is drastically wrong with my pedaling/bike fit. Toes going numb, and lately my, we franks and beans, are hurting. I simply love being on my bike but very tired of the all the issues. I want to get out and ride but what a pain in the arse.


Sorry you're haven so much discomfort, that blows. I will say my bro was experiencing pain in his groinical/perenium area. He switched the saddle with a Sella brand that had an "ergonomic relief channel" then tilted the seat upward a bit. They also tilted the handle bars up a bit. Try that instead of raising the post. He said it felt MUCH better.

I copied this from a previous post I responded to:
http://forums.roadbikereview.com/showthread.php?t=164577&highlight=ergonomic+channel

And view this one as well:

http://forums.roadbikereview.com/showthread.php?t=180166&highlight=180+numb

Hope this helps...


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## PJ352 (Dec 5, 2007)

sgt said:


> +1
> 
> I'll add two more:
> 
> ...


I agree with #4, but considering numbness is generally a pressure/ circulatory issue, I don't see where improved fitness is going to help. The cause has to be identified, then remedied. At a stretch, I suppose one could 'argue' that an improved cardio vascular system is a result of improved fitness, but to assume it will correct the OP's numbness issue _is_ a stretch.


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## PJ352 (Dec 5, 2007)

Zak said:


> This is something I need to work on as I tend to pedal with my toes pointed down a little. With my mountainbike and sneakers I never had any issues, even with 20+ mile rides.
> 
> Today I went out for my pathetic 7 mile ride with my new shoes.  I has hoping for an improvement but it was worse. I need to play to the cleats. I have them almost all the way back but there may be anohter 1/4" to go. My right toes were tingling after only 3 1/2 miles. Truely pathetic because as a teen, I rode 25+ miles a day to and from work with a POS bike without any issues. Usully with a big gulp in hand.
> 
> I also need to find another LBS to help me work on my pedaling etc as something is drastically wrong with my pedaling/bike fit. Toes going numb, and lately my, we franks and beans, are hurting. I simply love being on my bike but very tired of the all the issues. I want to get out and ride but what a pain in the arse.


A couple of thoughts. First, you're making too many changes all at once. Introducing new shoes and moving the cleats "almost all the way back" confuses the issue because now you don't know if it's the shoes or cleat position contributing to the increased numbness.

I suspect you have more than one fit issue, so I would suggest taking a step back and (for a short time) go back to your old pedals/ shoes. If they were platform and sneakers, so be it. At least you'll be getting rides in and you can take the time to concentrate on improving your pedaling style. 

Also, IME most bike shops, while adept at bike fit, aren't really experienced in studying pedaling techniques, then correcting for any issues. For that I'd seek out a certified fitter or (mentioned previously) consider Specialized BG FIT system. It's not cheap, but the 3rd level studies pedal stroke and recommends corrective action(s) if needed. As with any fit system, some swear by the results, while others think it's near worthless, so YMMV.


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## Mr. Versatile (Nov 24, 2005)

Very nice shoes - if they do what you want them to.

I have a couple of suggestions.
1. Your seat. There are major arteries and nerves that run from your upper body down through the interior of your hips and thighs. Even if your seat feels all right, it may somehow be pinching a nerve or cutting off blood supply to your lower extremities. All of us have experienced sitting on a table or other hard surface nd having our toes or feet "going to sleep."

2. Many, many cyclists recommend that your cycling shoes should fit snugly. I disagree. IMO, cycling shoes should fit like your regular dress shoes. As you ride, your feet swell. If the shoes are even a little tight they may be cutting off circulation. The best time of day to by shoes in late afternoon because after walking on them all day, your feet will be at their largest.

3. Don't wear heavyweight socks to cycle in unless your shoes are quite loose. Buy some mid to lightweight cycling specific socks.

I hope this helps you. Problems like this can be a bear to figure out. I agree with suggestions posted above, that you should make one small change at a time. If that doesn't work, at least you'll know what it isn't. Process of elimination.


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## Zak (Mar 23, 2009)

Thanks again for all the advise. Some great information here. Really need to work on my pedaling but it's quite hard once my feet start to hurt and i"m a ways from home. I'm going to adjust my cleats slightly today and leave everything else the same. I tried to match the placement as best as possible when I switched shoes at the store but I'm sure they are off a little. After that, my shoes came with slight arch supports that I'll try. I have pretty curved arches from all my years of wrestling/weight lifting so might be that I need some insoles with larger support. 

As far as my seat, I have the one that came with my bike. A Selle San Marco Ischea Chromoly. No idea if this is a decent saddle or not. here are the specs on my bike.
http://www.cannondale.com/bikes/07/cusa/road/synapse_sport/model-7RAY4T.html

I bought if off of Craiglist 4 or 5 months ago for $375 I think. The gent I bought it from upgraded to a Trek Madone 5.1 so he was letting this go for cheap. He upgraded the front wheel but the rest is stock.


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## seany916 (Feb 8, 2006)

My Pearl Izumi shoes, though not light at all are fairly wide which helps on long rides.

As Mr. Versatile above has stated, your feet swell as you ride. 

Best solution is not going to be popular (it's how I'm riding now), but I put some flat pedals (no clips, not clipless, just flat Walmart K-mart type pedals) on my bike for short quick jaunts with my kid. 

I get to wear regular sneakers and I notice less than 10% difference in speed (I like the pulling of clipless on the upstroke). Easier for "coffee shop" rides (which I don't do). And I don't have to walk like a duck when I'm off the bike.

Oh, the best part... as you ride, you can change foot position in relation to the pedals (non consistent at all), which although isn't efficient, is VERY comfortable, and can easily shake out your legs after a stiff climb. Also less slippery at stoplights when it's wet.


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## kykr13 (Apr 12, 2008)

180 said:


> then tilted the seat upward a bit.


This might sound backwards - like lowering the nose of the seat would help - but nose up just a little bit is a good thing to try. I also agree about trying too many new things at one time not being necessarily a good idea. If you try one thing at a time, you'll know for sure what the fix is but I do understand it'll take longer that way. Think of it as an investment I guess... Hope you get it figured out, pain isn't fun.


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