# Hoste



## goose127 (Jun 9, 2004)

I swear it almost looked to me like Leif was riding for Boonen. First he semi screwed his Hincapie, who is certainly a stronger rider, by taking off without any plan between the two of them. Then he worked very hard during the entire break when it was obvious that he could not beat Boonen and that he had no plan to do so. It seems like he was happy getting second, when if he had not worked so much maybe he could have worn out Boonen and either taken it himself or have the group catch up and have George counter attack. I bet we will hear about some discourd in the Disco camp this week.


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## mquetel (Apr 2, 2006)

After watching the race and hearing Hincapie's comments, I was definitely wondering if any internal politics will result from the outcome. 

Anyway, I think Hoste was riding for the win and didn't give Boonen an armchair ride (he didn't look happy to just be there, on the podium). It's kind of unfortunate that his great ride was overshadowed by Boonen's dominence. What can you say, though, Boonen is the real deal and a total animal.

Hopefully this will give Hincapie a little bit of motivational anger for next week...


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## Francis Cebedo (Aug 1, 2001)

Hoste was definitely riding for the win. It wasn't obvious to him that he had no chance.

Near the end of the race, he just sat on Boonen's wheel so he could jump him in the end. Boonen had plenty of words with him and they almost came to a standstill. Basically, Boonen said I'm not pulling you to the 200m so you can jump me.

So Hoste gives it his best shot and he gets schooled. Boonen has perfect tactics and perfect form.

In the end, the Belgians (Hoste and Bruyneel) screwed Hincapie. Hincapie had great form and was taken out of the running so easily. I'm happy to see Hincapie pissed. You have to be angry when you lose, specially when you don't even get a chance. Once Hoste was out in front, he could not even give chase.

The race played into Boonens hands perfectly. He found himself one on one with Hoste. He's going to win that every time. The only chance to beat him today was to have different guys from different teams take shots at him, one after the other on the last 30k.

Great race!

francois


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## Asiago (Jan 28, 2004)

*Politics, more like stern words*



mquetel said:


> After watching the race and hearing Hincapie's comments, I was definitely wondering if any internal politics will result from the outcome.


Yeah, I'm sure there will be a few words exchanged. P-R is gonna be interesting.


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## Vel07 (Oct 28, 2005)

Was JB the sportif I thought it was Demol?
I sensed GH was pissed with Hoste. The "I shouldve been in the final sprint" clued me in.


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## JGUTZ (Dec 13, 2005)

*Somebody school me*

Okay I understand racing to some degree, but is what Hoste did inappropriate from a team tactics stand point? He obviouslly felt strong and thought he could go till the finish, being in Belgium probably fueled his ambitions. 

Was he supposed to get permission from the boss in the car? 

Or was he supposed to talk to Hincapie and clear an attack through the team leader?

As I watched the interview with Hincapie at the end he clearly conveyed that he felt great but was trapped by Hoste's breakaway. My interpretation of the interview was that George felt he could have contested the win and perhaps won? 

I won't say George would have beat Boonen but I think he would have made it alot more interesting at the sprint finish. 

Thoughts, Jaime


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## JGUTZ (Dec 13, 2005)

*Demol not JB*

Paul Sherwan said it was Dermol in the car.


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## Art853 (May 30, 2003)

francois said:


> Hoste was definitely riding for the win.
> 
> The race played into Boonens hands perfectly.


If these statements are true then Hoste didn't use good tactics. If Hoste is riding for the win shouldn’t he ride differently than the way that gives him, and his teammate, a zero percent chance of winning?

How many people would think that Hoste has a good chance beating Boonen to the line if they are still together with 1 km to go? Perhaps if Boonen had done all the work from the point they both broke away. Hoste didn't seem to use any tactics until less than 1km to go. By then it was too late. Why not try and drop Boonen on the climb or somewhere well before the finish? That would seem to be Hoste's only chance for a win. If Hoste gets burned out in the process it would give GH a better chance because Boonen would have used energy chasing and would not have someone to paceline with all the way to the line. Perhaps all Hoste wanted was a podium spot.


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## Argentius (Aug 26, 2004)

yeah, DD does lots of the classics team, right?

Hoste clearly was going for the win -- that attack was vicious -- but, yeah, he wasn't going to outsprint Boonen. Hincapie was as pissed as I've seen Georgie get.

The you go / no you go track stand game in the last K was funny, but, Boonen, what do you expect? No one's gonna lead YOU out...


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## Coot72 (Nov 11, 2002)

*Bad communication at best*



goose127 said:


> I swear it almost looked to me like Leif was riding for Boonen. First he semi screwed his Hincapie, who is certainly a stronger rider, by taking off without any plan between the two of them. Then he worked very hard during the entire break when it was obvious that he could not beat Boonen and that he had no plan to do so. It seems like he was happy getting second, when if he had not worked so much maybe he could have worn out Boonen and either taken it himself or have the group catch up and have George counter attack. I bet we will hear about some discourd in the Disco camp this week.


I believe GH said in so many words that he didn't know that Hoste was going to attack at that point (30-some km to go) in his interview after the race. This is silly. Here's my logic. If GH knew Hoste was going to attack, he'd be on Boonen's wheel and let Boonen drag him across to Hoste. The replays show that GH was back in about 7th position. The only way Hoste is going to win is to have GH, Boonen, and Hincapie in the breakaway. Then they could take turns attacking. Bettini probably would have jumped across too in this situation or things would get more tactical. Maybe Boonen sits up. Nevertheless 1-1 with Boonen is a no win scenario for Hoste. 

Think about it another way, if a non-disco rider attacks at that point, GH goes across and joins the break. Hoste was the only guy that GH would not bridge up to. That's racing, but it still sucks for GH. 

Anyways Boonen is a monster. He deserved the win, and is a real superstar!

Perhaps GH will be pissed and will make a good show in PR.

Go George!

C72


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## cheddarlove (Oct 17, 2005)

*Something stinks!*

I just finished watching a taped Flanders and two things really stood out to me. First of all, Hoste went at about the 300 meter sign..that seems pretty far out when your'e up against Boonen . The other thing was, and this really struck me, Boonen was on the front and looked over his shoulder and when he did, Hoste went. Arent you supposed to kinda, sorta, maybe get the jump on them when they arent looking right at you? Like maybe surprise them a little? Go on the right perhaps? Leap over their shoulders? I mean anything but when they look right at you. I agree with the starter of this thread but I'll go one further and say...(uh-oh) I'll bet Hoste has some extra cash in his pocket tonight.
Make it look good, make it exciting but Tom must win at all costs! I know that's a stretch but.... Belgian wins no matter what. We will never know for sure but I'll bet when they watched the replay tonight, George hit the roof at Hoste's totally botched finale!
Anyway, that's my controversial and humble opinion. Honest!


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## Francis Cebedo (Aug 1, 2001)

cheddarlove said:


> I just finished watching a taped Flanders and two things really stood out to me. First of all, Hoste went at about the 300 meter sign..that seems pretty far out when your'e up against Boonen . The other thing was, and this really struck me, Boonen was on the front and looked over his shoulder and when he did, Hoste went. Arent you supposed to kinda, sorta, maybe get the jump on them when they arent looking right at you? Like maybe surprise them a little? Go on the right perhaps? Leap over their shoulders? I mean anything but when they look right at you. I agree with the starter of this thread but I'll go one further and say...(uh-oh) I'll bet Hoste has some extra cash in his pocket tonight.
> Make it look good, make it exciting but Tom must win at all costs! I know that's a stretch but.... Belgian wins no matter what. We will never know for sure but I'll bet when they watched the replay tonight, George hit the roof at Hoste's totally botched finale!
> Anyway, that's my controversial and humble opinion. Honest!


No need for conspiracy theories. Inside 500m, Hoste had NO CHANCE. No Chance. no chance.

No need to over-analyze since there's no issue.

francois


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## cheddarlove (Oct 17, 2005)

francois said:


> No need for conspiracy theories. Inside 500m, Hoste had NO CHANCE. No Chance. no chance.
> 
> No need to over-analyze since there's no issue.
> 
> francois


 You must admit that these type of conspiracy theories are way more fun than really, old, tired, sick of hearing about it doping theories!


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## Bianchigirl (Sep 17, 2004)

According to Eurosport, Hincapie was 'thinking' of attacking when Hoste did - but that's Hincapie's problem all over - he never actually makes the decisive move but only ever follows and I think that's why Hoste was frustrated and made his remarks about preferring to be an attacking rider, not one who waits. I'm sure Lotto will take back Hoste with open arms - thye could use some Classics firepower.

But if Disco had waited for Hincapie to make a decisive attack, I'm afraid they'd have waited until long after Boonen had crossed the finish line as the winner. Tha fact that Hincapie won the sprint for 3rd relatively easily (when Bettini had done the majority of the work to control the pursuit) means, I'm afraid, b****r all


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## philippec (Jun 16, 2002)

cheddarlove said:


> You must admit that these type of conspiracy theories are way more fun than really, old, tired, sick of hearing about it doping theories!


I was watching the race finale in a beer tent on the Koppenburg -- here was the received wisdom that was circulating along with the leffes, Jupiters and other hops-based sudsy beverages:

a. Leif Hoste will be racing w/ Quickstep next year ... you mark my words (#1 most popular explanation)

b. The phone calls were going fast and furious between Demol and Lefevre once the break got established. Don't be surprised to see QS lend a "helping" hand to Discovery in July (#2 most popular explanantion)

c. Hoste almost won the Ronde before and his attack just shows how strong we Belgians are (actually, this was the #1 response but I have discounted it 2 notches since it was invariably proffered by those fans that were the most falling-downedly drunk!)

A+

Philippe


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## R.Rice (Aug 23, 2004)

francois said:


> No need for conspiracy theories. Inside 500m, Hoste had NO CHANCE. No Chance. no chance.
> 
> No need to over-analyze since there's no issue.
> 
> francois


I totally agree.To second guess Hoste is retarded at best.Imagine,here you are with less than 500m to go, and it is just you and Tom Boonen.........Really,what did you expect him to do?


Also,I agree with BianchiGirl.GH is a great guy and a great rider.However,he is no where near agressive enough.Some people are also giving him too much credit.Had he been with Boonen instead of Hoste the outcome would have been the same as last years PR.Boonen would have schooled him in a sprint.


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## magnolialover (Jun 2, 2004)

*Hincapie Strong, Hoste Stronger...*



Bianchigirl said:


> According to Eurosport, Hincapie was 'thinking' of attacking when Hoste did - but that's Hincapie's problem all over - he never actually makes the decisive move but only ever follows and I think that's why Hoste was frustrated and made his remarks about preferring to be an attacking rider, not one who waits. I'm sure Lotto will take back Hoste with open arms - thye could use some Classics firepower.
> 
> But if Disco had waited for Hincapie to make a decisive attack, I'm afraid they'd have waited until long after Boonen had crossed the finish line as the winner. Tha fact that Hincapie won the sprint for 3rd relatively easily (when Bettini had done the majority of the work to control the pursuit) means, I'm afraid, b****r all


George was strong yesterday, but Hoste was simply stronger, and rode away with the strongest man in the break. George, to his credit, had great legs, so he said, and you could tell in the group sprint for 3rd, as he took it easily from the others. Also, he played the perfect teammate. He of course had his own ambitions for this race, but once Boonen went away with Hoste, and Bettini started riding herd, that was all she wrote, and George put in some help as well making sure nobody started to bridge up to the leaders. They way I read his interview post race is that he was angry that he had such good form, and didn't have a chance to use it. If Hincapie had gone with Boonen and Hoste though, I think there would have been a Disco rider standing on the top step yesterday, because when and if you can 2 on 1 someone, well, there is no way that you shouldn't win, but then again, Boonen, never know what he's capable of so far this year. What I think is surprising is that everyone is saying on here at least, how Hoste wasn't as strong as Hincapie. Did I miss something in the races leading up to Flanders where Hoste has proven himself the strongest Disco rider in the Spring thus far? I'm just wondering. George looked good, and I think it bodes well for him this coming weekend of PR, and also for maybe a repeat of GW during the mid-week? Then again, he might not burn the matches to win GW and save it all for a Sunday in Hell of next weekend.

Some are wondering why Hoste didn't try to attack Boonen before the finale. Well, if you've never been in a breakaway in a bike race, and have not been riding on the limit for kilometer after kilometer, you'd know that it is almost impossible to throw in an attack that would split the break. Also, you have to read your breakaway companion, see how he's feeling, throw it down a little bit, see how he reacts, and I think I read somewhere where Hoste did a little larger effort, and Boonen was matching him easily. If Hoste attacks, at the worst, he gets shelled from the breakaway, falls back through the chasers and finishes a disappointing 20th or something like that. At best, of course, he cracks Boonen, and wins the race, but looking at Boonen's exploits on the bike leading up to Flanders, who in the world would think that you could crack him. It just didn't, and still doesn't, seem very likely or possible. And when you get into a break like that, you don't start attacking immediately, first you've got to establish a good sized gap between you and the chase group, once this is done, then you can start attacking one another. If you attack each other too early, you will both get caught by the chase, and therefore ruin your chances of winning no doubt. So you work with one another, establish a good sized gap, try a few things, if they don't work, you back off, and keep working, and wait for the sprint. Hoste, had a good sprint win last week, so I'm sure he was thinking it is possible to take Boonen in the finale, mostly because they were both going to be tired as all get out, but as we know now, Boonen made it look easy. 

Anyway, Sunday is another race.


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## 32and3cross (Feb 28, 2005)

*Hoste was strong but wrong*

He rode like a complete and total moron. The smart thing to do would have been pull just enought to get a nice gap which happened pretty quickly and then sit on no matter what. Boonen could not drop him so he would have to either pull all the way upping Hoste's chances in the sprint or drop back to the group and get countered by Hincapie. Hoste rode for second and thats what he got. Hincapie sould be pissed, Hoste made sure second was the best they could get. The way George pushed up the final climbs in the second group I'm not sure Hoste was stronger as strong but not stronger.



magnolialover said:


> George was strong yesterday, but Hoste was simply stronger, and rode away with the strongest man in the break. George, to his credit, had great legs, so he said, and you could tell in the group sprint for 3rd, as he took it easily from the others. Also, he played the perfect teammate. He of course had his own ambitions for this race, but once Boonen went away with Hoste, and Bettini started riding herd, that was all she wrote, and George put in some help as well making sure nobody started to bridge up to the leaders. They way I read his interview post race is that he was angry that he had such good form, and didn't have a chance to use it. If Hincapie had gone with Boonen and Hoste though, I think there would have been a Disco rider standing on the top step yesterday, because when and if you can 2 on 1 someone, well, there is no way that you shouldn't win, but then again, Boonen, never know what he's capable of so far this year. What I think is surprising is that everyone is saying on here at least, how Hoste wasn't as strong as Hincapie. Did I miss something in the races leading up to Flanders where Hoste has proven himself the strongest Disco rider in the Spring thus far? I'm just wondering. George looked good, and I think it bodes well for him this coming weekend of PR, and also for maybe a repeat of GW during the mid-week? Then again, he might not burn the matches to win GW and save it all for a Sunday in Hell of next weekend.
> 
> Some are wondering why Hoste didn't try to attack Boonen before the finale. Well, if you've never been in a breakaway in a bike race, and have not been riding on the limit for kilometer after kilometer, you'd know that it is almost impossible to throw in an attack that would split the break. Also, you have to read your breakaway companion, see how he's feeling, throw it down a little bit, see how he reacts, and I think I read somewhere where Hoste did a little larger effort, and Boonen was matching him easily. If Hoste attacks, at the worst, he gets shelled from the breakaway, falls back through the chasers and finishes a disappointing 20th or something like that. At best, of course, he cracks Boonen, and wins the race, but looking at Boonen's exploits on the bike leading up to Flanders, who in the world would think that you could crack him. It just didn't, and still doesn't, seem very likely or possible. And when you get into a break like that, you don't start attacking immediately, first you've got to establish a good sized gap between you and the chase group, once this is done, then you can start attacking one another. If you attack each other too early, you will both get caught by the chase, and therefore ruin your chances of winning no doubt. So you work with one another, establish a good sized gap, try a few things, if they don't work, you back off, and keep working, and wait for the sprint. Hoste, had a good sprint win last week, so I'm sure he was thinking it is possible to take Boonen in the finale, mostly because they were both going to be tired as all get out, but as we know now, Boonen made it look easy.
> 
> Anyway, Sunday is another race.


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## Dwayne Barry (Feb 16, 2003)

goose127 said:


> I swear it almost looked to me like Leif was riding for Boonen.


Disco tactics were certainly suspect but Hincapie should stop belly-aching. He had his chance to follow the attack of Kroon at the top of the Valkenberg when he got within about 20 meters of Boonen/Hoste. Perhaps if Hincapie was there they would have made it and had Boonen outnumbered.

However once Boonen/Hoste had a good gap established Hoste should have sat on him in the hopes of attacking him on the Muur or Bosberg, or force Boonen to let it come back and get reshuffled.  Personally I didn't see Hincapie doing much covering (despite his claims), it appeared to be Bettini doing most of the defensive riding. Anyway Hincapie shouldn't have been riding defensively, he should have been looking for a move, which would have given Hoste a better excuse to sit on Boonen than simply "I'm not working with you because you'll just out sprint me".

Hoste had to know after the Muur or even Tenbosse that he wasn't strong enough to lose Boonen, so at that point you have to sit on and maybe raise his chances of beating Boonen in the sprint from none to slim or hope Hincapie got in a move that made it up to them.


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## Dwayne Barry (Feb 16, 2003)

32and3cross said:


> He rode like a complete and total moron.


Agree but Hincapie should have forced Demol/Hoste's hand by getting in a move especially if he was really their designated leader.


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## Dwayne Barry (Feb 16, 2003)

philippec said:


> I was watching the race finale in a beer tent on the Koppenburg -- here was the received wisdom that was circulating along with the leffes, Jupiters and other hops-based sudsy beverages:
> 
> a. Leif Hoste will be racing w/ Quickstep next year ... you mark my words (#1 most popular explanation)
> 
> Philippe


Lotto would seem to be the more logical place to go unless the money is way better at QS?


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## Fignon's Barber (Mar 2, 2004)

Hoste clearly screwed the team. And his post race comments were hilarious, as quoted in cyclingnews.com. Referring to himself in 3rd person (" this leif hoste is an even stronger leif hoste"), dissing hincapie for not attacking, and proclaiming himself as the man to watch for roubaix. At least hincapie had the common sense not to rip a belgian in belgium.


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## Spunout (Aug 12, 2002)

Hincapie missed another boat. When a teammate attacks, get a free ride up on the chaser's wheel. Then counter attack. If George was strongest, why didn't he attack first? 

George watched and waited too long. End of race.


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## magnolialover (Jun 2, 2004)

*Here's the problem with that scenario..*



32and3cross said:


> He rode like a complete and total moron. The smart thing to do would have been pull just enought to get a nice gap which happened pretty quickly and then sit on no matter what. Boonen could not drop him so he would have to either pull all the way upping Hoste's chances in the sprint or drop back to the group and get countered by Hincapie. Hoste rode for second and thats what he got. Hincapie sould be pissed, Hoste made sure second was the best they could get. The way George pushed up the final climbs in the second group I'm not sure Hoste was stronger as strong but not stronger.


I think the infinite problem with the scenario described above is that Boonen would have stopped working if Hoste had stopped working, and they would have returned to the front group very easily, then, possibly, Hincapie could have attacked, at which point Boonen then goes with Hincapie, and then outsprints Hincapie at the end. No matter how you slice it, Boonen was the strongest baddest mo-fo out there this Sunday. They go back to the group, nobody attacks, Bettini leads out Boonen for the sprint win. They go back to the group, someone else attacks, Boonen goes with that, he wins in a breakaway sprint. I don't think Hoste rode like an idiot, but more like a Belgian man who wanted to win the biggest race in Flanders. Hincapie, unfortunately was at the wrong place, and wrong time again. Why didn't he cover Kroon when he tried to go across? If he had covered Kroon and was as strong as he said he was, when Kroon got to within 20 meters, he should have been able to jump across easily, but that didn't happen. Why? If he had, it would have been 2 on 1 Disco vs Boonen, and I'm pretty sure they still would have blown that as well. Don't get me wrong, I love me some George Hincapie, and I think he is an excellent bike racer, but his tactical sense is not so good most of the time. 2nd and 3rd is of course not the win, but as I keep saying, Boonen has everyone eating out of his hand, and he is the strongest guy out on the roads right now, there is no surprise. If you want to win a Spring classic race in Northern France or Belgium this year, you're going to have to deal with Boonen and QS.


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## DriftlessDB (Jul 29, 2005)

GH has a case for being upset at Hoste, but he should also be kicking himself a bit as others have said. Based on the earlier races this season, when Boonen gets in the break, that's it, race over. If he wanted a chance he should have been marking TB's every move. When he goes, you go, teammate or not. Maybe a few others follow, but if not, it's 2 Discos on TB and your odds are better. It's just like Disco/USPS in the last 7 TDF, you know what's going to happen, but choose not to do anything different. Boonen is strong as an ox right now and you have to take some chances if you hope knock him off that top step, maybe you don't get 2nd & 3rd, but you will have done something other than let Boonen dictate the race. Hoste threw it down and GH needed to follow it up with another shot.

Dave


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## weltyed (Feb 6, 2004)

pretty good thread about tactics. helps me understand racing more.

i was wondering why hoste didn't drag boonen back to the pack and then have big george jump. chalk it up to being excited about racing, especially in one's own country. 

i also wondered what the heck was goin on in the team car. don't they communicate? i can understand why gh is pissed, but as pointed out earlier, he still lacks a bit in the "leader" part of leadership.

and we all knew boonen was gonna win that sprint, but even i knew hoste jumped too soon, too weak, and too telegraphed. when hoste slowed up maybe he thought he could get boonen to trackstand until gh could power through? i dont know what he was thinking, but when he jumped i was hoppin around shouting, "too soon! too soon!"

more conspiracy theories:
1) king albert paid hoste off
2) king albert paid demol off to have hoste jump
3) demol let it go, hopin gh would stew all week, then use that anger to fuel his bid at paris-roubaix


now the big question: i picked up some leffe for the race. what do i drink for paris-roubaix? any good french beers? maybe wine? 
mudslides?


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## Spunout (Aug 12, 2002)

Chimay. Closest to France anyways.


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## mquetel (Apr 2, 2006)

philippec said:


> I was watching the race finale in a beer tent on the Koppenburg -- here was the received wisdom that was circulating along with the leffes, Jupiters and other hops-based sudsy beverages...


I was dreaming about watching the race from a venue like that. Best I could come up with was tape-delay on OLN and a couple of pints of Chimay!

Maybe next year...


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## mohair_chair (Oct 3, 2002)

cheddarlove said:


> I just finished watching a taped Flanders and two things really stood out to me. First of all, Hoste went at about the 300 meter sign..that seems pretty far out when your'e up against Boonen . The other thing was, and this really struck me, Boonen was on the front and looked over his shoulder and when he did, Hoste went. Arent you supposed to kinda, sorta, maybe get the jump on them when they arent looking right at you? Like maybe surprise them a little? Go on the right perhaps? Leap over their shoulders? I mean anything but when they look right at you. I agree with the starter of this thread but I'll go one further and say...(uh-oh) I'll bet Hoste has some extra cash in his pocket tonight.
> Make it look good, make it exciting but Tom must win at all costs! I know that's a stretch but.... Belgian wins no matter what. We will never know for sure but I'll bet when they watched the replay tonight, George hit the roof at Hoste's totally botched finale!
> Anyway, that's my controversial and humble opinion. Honest!


That isn't controversial--it's ridiculous. It was pretty clear Boonen was the strongman of the race, and he had three or four teammates with him! Why would the strongest guy with the strongest team, who is also the previous winner and strong favorite, need to buy off someone on another team? Also, if you are going to buy someone off, you don't buy off the guy who has already come in second in this race.


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## Red Sox Junkie (Sep 15, 2005)

*Did GH not try to bridge. . .*

for fear of pulling Bettini up to TB? Once Bettini and TB hook it up, they are unstoppable. Is Hoste vs. Boonen any better than GH and Hoste vs. TB and Bettini? Any way, once Hoste went and GH didn't, the race was over. If GH and Hoste were in a 3 man break with TB they possibly could have won, but I just don't see how that break would happen. Bettini would have been on GH like flies on s***. I can't wait for PR!!!


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## Dwayne Barry (Feb 16, 2003)

magnolialover said:


> II don't think Hoste rode like an idiot, but more like a Belgian man who wanted to win the biggest race in Flanders.


I think he rode more like a Belgium man trying to raise the value of his stock. I think they had more than a minute on the run-in to the Muur, at that point if he was really looking at having a shot at winning he should have been a punk and just sat on Boonen. I think Boonen would have kept working and had the confidence in his sprint to drag Hoste to the line. Disco/Hoste were simply riding for second with the tactics they played.

As it ended up, Hoste showed how strong he was and lost with honor to Boonen in the sprint. He could have looked like a punk and almost certainly lost the sprint anyway. Or he could have looked like a punk and taken the chance that Hincapie would bridge up with a few others and Disco pulled the win out somehow.


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## Dwayne Barry (Feb 16, 2003)

Red Sox Junkie said:


> for fear of pulling Bettini up to TB? Once Bettini and TB hook it up, they are unstoppable. Is Hoste vs. Boonen any better than GH and Hoste vs. TB and Bettini? Any way, once Hoste went and GH didn't, the race was over. If GH and Hoste were in a 3 man break with TB they possibly could have won, but I just don't see how that break would happen. Bettini would have been on GH like flies on s***. I can't wait for PR!!!


Bettini was toast by the Muur. If Hincapie was so strong he should have been able to pull a select few away and left Bettini for dead. However, by the Bosberg when Bettini was dropped it was too late to bridge up since the cooperating 2 up front (IIRC) had more than a minute and a half by then.


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## magnolialover (Jun 2, 2004)

*Not sure...*



weltyed said:


> pretty good thread about tactics. helps me understand racing more.
> 
> i was wondering why hoste didn't drag boonen back to the pack and then have big george jump. chalk it up to being excited about racing, especially in one's own country.
> 
> ...


Not sure how Hoste would have dragged Boonen back to the group. If Hoste slows down, Boonen just rides away. Hoste gets back to the group, and then they could chase, or chase as soon as they know Hoste is coming back, but regardless, Hoste could not have brought Boonen back.

At the end, they were playing cat and mouse like what happens when you have a good sized time gap coming into the finish with just a couple of guys. Hoste was trying to get Boonen to lead out the sprint, so he might be able to catch his wheel and go for the win. 

I still think Hoste rode a good race, and don't see how everyone is saying he "screwed" Hincapie with his attack. As I mentioned before, Hoste has been riding well, and strong lately, Hincapie has been riding and racing decently, but not showing as good as Hoste has been. Hoste took his chance for victory, and it didn't work. Boonen is the unmovable foce right now for the most part.


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## peter1 (Apr 10, 2002)

*Observations...*

Hoste indicated that after he jumped and TB followed, he looked around and saw no one had followed, so he decided to go for it. I understand why GH is pissed, but he should know by now that when TB attacks, he's not feinting (ie P-R 2005). Hoste's not chopped liver; he's as capable as GH of winning a spring classic.

It seems a bit presumptious of GH to say that he would have done better in a 1-up sprint (again, see P-R 2005). It would have been the same outcome either way, IMO. Boonen is just a locomotive at this point. 

But, having said all that, Disco's tactics/communication were lacking. You've got 2 of the 3 strongest guys (GH did easily win the field sprint), and you get 2nd and 3rd? That's a T-Mobile move! Demol should have ordered Hoste to block Boonen or drop back so Gh could catch up. True, Bettini would have followed, but I don't think he was as strong as the other 3. How sweet would a Hoste lead-out for GH to win have been? 

Anyway, terrific race. I sure hope Boonen's not on the same stuff that Museeuw was on! Or, at least, that he never gets caught...


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## Dwayne Barry (Feb 16, 2003)

magnolialover said:


> I still think Hoste rode a good race, and don't see how everyone is saying he "screwed" Hincapie with his attack. As I mentioned before, Hoste has been riding well, and strong lately, Hincapie has been riding and racing decently, but not showing as good as Hoste has been. Hoste took his chance for victory, and it didn't work. Boonen is the unmovable foce right now for the most part.


Hoste rode a great race and did what was needed by attacking the group. But if Disco/Hoste were riding to win everyone knows by now you can't cooperate with Boonen to get a sprint finish. They should have at least tried something once the duo had established their gap and Boonen would have been tempted to drag Hoste to the line. But Hincapie shouldn't complain, it's not like he would have dropped or outsprinted Boonen either and it's not like he did anything to "force" Hoste to sit-on Boonen.


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## rocco (Apr 30, 2005)

I'm seeing a pattern with Hincapie in the spring classics. Could it be that Hincapie might take his designated leader status for granted in that he needs to understand that leadership isn't just given? Leaders know that leadership isn't just given; they have to take it. If Hincapie wants to be the boss then he has to show who's the boss. If he really wants to be the Disco boss he better throw down the Paris Roubaix of his life and if needs to drive his own guy in the gutter to do it then that how it's going to be. I see this as a make or break point in Hincapies's career.


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## allezdude (Feb 18, 2003)

*anyone remember the race where disco isolated boonen*

it was one or 2 years ago- in one of the early season races, Discovery had devloder attack the lead group with boonen several times, and boonen chased, killing boonen's legs. this allowed one of the other disco guys to get away and eventually win. but I can't remember what race it was. am I crazy or does anyone remmeber that race?

of course NOW no one's going to be able to isolate boonen.

And, in the final sprint, hoste went WAY too early. he had the right idea to sit on boonen's wheel the last 1K but the execution wasn't there.


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## Spunout (Aug 12, 2002)

2005 Kurne-Brussels-Kurne...George won. Devolder was amazing that day. 

http://www.cyclingnews.com/road/2005/feb05/kbk05/?id=results


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## magnolialover (Jun 2, 2004)

*Indeed...*



Spunout said:


> 2005 Kurne-Brussels-Kurne...George won. Devolder was amazing that day.
> 
> http://www.cyclingnews.com/road/2005/feb05/kbk05/?id=results


Indeed, they rode well that day, but I'd hazard a guess that KBK was not a big target of Boonen's that day.

But I digress since he went on to win Flanders, Roubaix, and the World Championships and all.


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## atpjunkie (Mar 23, 2002)

*it wasn't Bettini GH was worried about*

but Ballan and PVP. As soon as they were off (Boonen and Hoste) GH as a team rider can't drag guys over to them, he has to sit on and hopefully get towed. Remember how we all frowned on the idiotic team tactics of T-Kom for Ullrich and Kloden chasing Vino in the TdF?
Hoste should have at least given a hint and not taken his leader off guard. The only way you are going to beat Tom is by ganging up, so his move though motivated to win was a losing bet. He's Belgian, they take this race as #1 in their calendar, I don'tknow if Hoste is looking for a new job but it looks like Disco has been good to him getting him the De Panne victory, it's not like he isn't getting team support.
GH though,if you are leader you should know what your mates are up to. Your sprint over Ballan was impressive but again as last year you just were the fastest of those that 'missed the move'. Had you been sitting on Tom when Leif went you could have been there.
Leif , nice race but what were you thinking? If you didn't try to drop him on the last climb you knew you were doomed. If you knew you couldn't drop him you should have sat on.
I think when they came into the finalK and Hoste started playing cat and mouse I think Tom wanted to do the handshake and go mano a mano. I think Hoste's reply was "You're the one in the rainbow, this is your race to win" and it was. Nice work Tom.


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## QUiTSPiNiNArOuND (Mar 15, 2002)

*Boonen is more cocky than i thought*

This is taken from a cyclingnews.com interview.

Q:Why did Leif Hoste keep working in the escape, knowing that you're faster in the sprint? 

TB:What else could he do? If he didn't, he would finish fifth or sixth. Hincapie would also not have won from me, so that's no excuse either. We both had reasons to continue our escape, like we also both had reasons to stop it.

Wow Boonen, no wonder he won, he believes no one can really beat him. It doesnt matter who, how or when, he was going to win. I guess thats what you need to win. Hoste was settling for 2nd, He attacked, that's fine, Booned hooked on, he knew than it was over. He knew that he could not attack Boonen elsewhere. He knew after they established there gap quickly that it was coming down to a sprint. I don't really think that he thought he had a chance in the sprint no matter what he did. I think his move was to say something to GH. Leif said this in an interview, "I've been saying for a while now that you should attack if you want to win. The ones who wait are not right - OK, I didn't win, but still... " and "The team was not as strong as I thought." I think Hoste was frustrated and didn't care bout anything but himself at this point.

If he were to play team tactics in my opinion, he should've sat on Boonen's wheel. I mean one on one with Boonen is just not going to happen unless you are Pettachi, you might have chance. Boonen would tell you to pull through, Hoste won't, Boonen would attack, im sure Hoste would be able to cover, the duo break would disinegrate, a counter will come from the pack, and if George said he was strong the team wouldve had a real shot. It really is about the power in numbers in the classic for a team to win and not a certain individual.


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## Dwayne Barry (Feb 16, 2003)

atpjunkie said:


> but Ballan and PVP. As soon as they were off (Boonen and Hoste) GH as a team rider can't drag guys over to them, he has to sit on and hopefully get towed.


If they wanted to win the race they had no other choice, they opted to ride for 2nd.


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## antoine (May 22, 2002)

*Hincapie is the problem to Hincapie failure*

Hincapie did not attack and should not complain about it. That simple. When Host/Boonen had 30-45 sec. he should have attacked and dropped the rest of the group if he was that strong. Host and Boonen both did it so why should George not able to? In that position we would have had a real mano a mano between Boonen and Hincapie. This would have exposed completely the two mans. I have never seen Hincapie being expose and I always think he cannot get expose. Host would have got the best harm-chair ride of is life in that situation. That would have been the best situation for Disco as a team not as Hincapie’s team. 

So I see that Host did one error by attacking without getting the team OK first. Hincapie did multiple errors by not attacking before Host did, by sitting on 7th place on a hill in Flanders, not fallowing Boonen period and for not trying to get back to the two leaders.

He did not attack like he does in every race he did not win.


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## Pablo (Jul 7, 2004)

*Hoste fancies himself as the next Boonen . . .*

I can't but help agreeing with the criticisms of George, albeit that he is still a great rider. Moreover, there's a certain parellel between a possible motovation of Hoste. We all remember another young Belgian previously on Big George's team who seemed discontent with riding second-fiddle to a guy who has yet to win a big one.


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## Spunout (Aug 12, 2002)

atpjunkie said:


> but Ballan and PVP. As soon as they were off (Boonen and Hoste) GH as a team rider can't drag guys over to them, he has to sit on and hopefully get towed....


Kroon.

Not that we're counting, but that makes 2 attacks that GH didn't cover.


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## Monty Dog (Apr 8, 2004)

I'm still laughing at the comments about GH being a 'great' classics rider - like wouldn't it be good if he could actually won a real one?. Prediction - based on his Flanders form and his persistent inability to attack, he won't win P-Rx either. Hoste should be the protected rider as he's demonstrated better form and consitently higher finishes in the races that matter - not wheel sucking for 250km and then expecting to be handed victory for sitting on. Unless Demol gets out the Disco car and LeFevre takes his place, there's little chance of Boonen not producing the double-double.


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## atpjunkie (Mar 23, 2002)

*from what I saw and from my experience with the Ronde*

do you know how hard it is to drop the best of the best? heck Boonen or Hoste should have just dropped each other if it's so easy. They went and Paolo did a superb blo0ck that gave them about 20 sec's. It's why QS is #1 Team,they ride that way . Once they were off it is George's job to not give chase. If he had and pulled up someone else you'd be saying :"Wow GH just pulled a T-Kom".George screwed up because he got caught out when they went. Where would have GH made a bridge and dropped his fellow P-V-P and such? The Tenbosse, the Parikeberg. Neither that nasty and with a tailwind gonna be hard to drop anyone. GH and Bettini played blockers and by the time they got to the only climb left that mattered (Muur) Hoste and Boonen were already 1'26 or so up. He helped thin the group on the Muur (Paolo got shelled) down to Ballan,Cacellera (who had been suffering) and P-V-P whom he all dispatched in the sprint for 3rd.

So by the time GH had an opportunity to do anything it was too late. Like I said, it was dumb that he got caught out by his own teammate and dumb that he was behind Bettini when Paolo blocked when TB and LH went on the Valkenberg. Never would have happened as such IMHO if they were under different supervision but GH was dumb as he should have been glued to TB's wheel. This I'll agree on. Tom and QS superb, GH and Disco, dumb.


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## surftel (Apr 18, 2005)

*Hoste will be gone next year*

just ask Marty Jemison or Chann Mcrea what happens you attack a group that King George is in....


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## Len J (Jan 28, 2004)

*George should only be pissed at George........*

How can he not be marking Boonen? Yea, so his teammate takes a flier......once Boonen follows, George has to go....once again, he hesitates, just enough to not be able to bridge.....either that or he wasn't strong enough......either way, he is the one that lost the chance, an all too familiar outcome.

Len


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## Francis Cebedo (Aug 1, 2001)

QUiTSPiNiNArOuND said:


> This is taken from a cyclingnews.com interview.
> 
> Q:Why did Leif Hoste keep working in the escape, knowing that you're faster in the sprint?
> 
> TB:What else could he do? If he didn't, he would finish fifth or sixth. Hincapie would also not have won from me, so that's no excuse either. We both had reasons to continue our escape, like we also both had reasons to stop it.


Boonen is 1 million percent right. No man could really beat him yesterday 1 on 1. However, he knew that his chances would decrease if he stayed in that group everybody started working against him.

Like I said, Boonen's form is perfect and his tactics are perfect too. He used his team well and used Hoste like a tool. 

Boonen started pulling after he caught Hoste as if to say. 'Come ride with me and you'll have a chance'. When he saw Cancellara coming, Boonen pulled and left Fabian out of the party. And then, when Hoste started playing games so he can win. Boonen stopped the train and said. 'You're not going to snake me fool. Let's ride like real men and sprint it out.'.

Perfect tactics to match his form. Bravo!!

francois


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## magnolialover (Jun 2, 2004)

*I do believe...*



Monty Dog said:


> I'm still laughing at the comments about GH being a 'great' classics rider - like wouldn't it be good if he could actually won a real one?. Prediction - based on his Flanders form and his persistent inability to attack, he won't win P-Rx either. Hoste should be the protected rider as he's demonstrated better form and consitently higher finishes in the races that matter - not wheel sucking for 250km and then expecting to be handed victory for sitting on. Unless Demol gets out the Disco car and LeFevre takes his place, there's little chance of Boonen not producing the double-double.


I do believe that Hincapie is a good classics rider, he could be great with the right DS I think. I think he puts too much stock into letting Demol do the thinking, and it should be Johann in the car instead, because let's face it, Johann knows how to win races with great tactical know how, not just the Tour, but Classics as well. Throw Johann in the car, George wins Paris Roubaix. Leave Demol in the seat, things will stay the same.

Hincapie's flanders form was spot on, but he does have an inability to attack the race. Maybe that's too many years spent in the service of Lance during the Tour and being told NOT to attack, I don't know.

Hoste has produced good results so far this year, Hincapie has as well, 8th in TA isn't a bad result. A stage in the TOC isn't too bad either (not top level euro racing, yes, but still, not a bad result early season). Hoste was and is coming off being in very good form after de Panne, which is why I don't understand why everyone is so upset that he rode an attacking race. I just don't get it. 

Year after year though, we keep hearing how Hincapie is going to do it this year, and then he doesn't. And then the next year, he's going to do it this year, and again, nothing. I will say, he had an outstanding year last year, KBK, stage of the Tour, some TT wins, Plouay and some other races, he had a great year. I still think he would be a great champion with a different team, one like QS...


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## wheel_suker (Feb 3, 2005)

Guys face it, if Hoste did not do what he did, the group would have probably stayed together and Zabel would have dusted them all


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## atpjunkie (Mar 23, 2002)

*yes Len*

GH should have been on TB's wheel when Hoste went. Instead he was 3 riders back and got caught behind Bettini's block. next thing ay know it's 20 seconds and yer stuck playing defender (of a lost cause). there's a reason QS is the best team in cycling and attracts such great talent


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## Len J (Jan 28, 2004)

atpjunkie said:


> GH should have been on TB's wheel when Hoste went. Instead he was 3 riders back and got caught behind Bettini's block. next thing ay know it's 20 seconds and yer stuck playing defender (of a lost cause). there's a reason QS is the best team in cycling and attracts such great talent


George always seems to have these lapses in attention.......it's frustrating....I would have loved to see what would have happened if he followed quickly and forced QS to react or block.

May not have changed the outcome, but it would have been fun.

Len


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## Bianchigirl (Sep 17, 2004)

But compare Hincapie's 2005 season to Boonen's - 2 stages of the Tour, 2 Monuments, World Champion....and yet Hincapie is still touted in the same breath as a Classics rider - sorry, but that's a joke. And if you put Bruyneel in the car, result stays the same - Hincapie doesn't win. Because being a Classics winner is not just about who your DS is but how flexible you are as a team, the esprit you have in that team and the tactical awareness each rider possesses to respond to conditions and events in the race. Hoste and Boonen demonstrated that they have that awareness - Hincapie doesn't. He'd still be waiting to attack on the Muur ('but the attacks _always_ go on the Muur!') whilst Boonen was in the showers.

Whilst I generally agree with your analysis magnolialover, Disco simply don't have it in the Classics - Armstrong never managed to win Amstel Gold, even with Bruyneel in the car, when he was supposedly the strongest rider, so why should Hincapie fare any differently?


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## Dwayne Barry (Feb 16, 2003)

francois said:


> When he saw Cancellara coming, Boonen pulled and left Fabian out of the party.


I think it was actually Kroon who was the CSC rider who almost made it across, at least according to cyclingnews.com and Kroon's own post-race quotes, but Phil and Paul on OLN said it was Cancellera.


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## Francis Cebedo (Aug 1, 2001)

wheel_suker said:


> Guys face it, if Hoste did not do what he did, the group would have probably stayed together and Zabel would have dusted them all


 He would have tried but Hushovd would have pipped him at the line. How can you beat a man named Thor?

fc


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## stevesbike (Jun 3, 2002)

*Discovery race management*

I think the criticism of GH is a bit unfair--the big quesiton to me is, what was Discovery's race strategy and who is in control on the road. Apparently, GH had no idea Hoste was going to make that move-if he's supposed to be working for GH then what was that about? It's not like Hoste was covering a move-he animated the group at a time when George was out of position. In contrast, Quick Step was united for Boonen and rode a perfect race for him, protected him all day and set him up perfectly.

Makes you wonder if Discovery management really is that great. Certainly no one would have made a move like that against LA when he was team leader (maybe Brunyeel is the Phil Jackson of cycling).


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## Len J (Jan 28, 2004)

*Only one flaw I see.......*



stevesbike said:


> I think the criticism of GH is a bit unfair--the big quesiton to me is, what was Discovery's race strategy and who is in control on the road. Apparently, GH had no idea Hoste was going to make that move-if he's supposed to be working for GH then what was that about? It's not like Hoste was covering a move-he animated the group at a time when George was out of position. In contrast, Quick Step was united for Boonen and rode a perfect race for him, protected him all day and set him up perfectly.
> 
> Makes you wonder if Discovery management really is that great. Certainly no one would have made a move like that against LA when he was team leader (maybe Brunyeel is the Phil Jackson of cycling).


in your logic.

What if it was Boonan who went instead of Hoste? George still wasn't in a position to follow.....asleep at the wheel.


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## atpjunkie (Mar 23, 2002)

*yup good points both of ya*

where was the 'team tactics' of Disco? why, if the team tactics were lax why wasn't GH stuck on TB's wheel.

here, for next week GEORGE FIND TOM'S WHEEL AND STAY THERE!!!!!!!!

until you can attack.


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## Len J (Jan 28, 2004)

*Wouldn't you have liked.......*

to see George Attack on the opposite side of the road from Hoste at the same time? Whichever one Tom Follows, slows, the other one goes......and force Boonen to expend energy.

I know it was a narrow road....it sure would have been fun.

Len


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## atpjunkie (Mar 23, 2002)

*I would have liked to see Disco*

do something that looked other than

self destructive, retarded classics strategy.

watch what Mapei and Domo FF did to George in P-R, that is how ya win.


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## il sogno (Jul 15, 2002)

cheddarlove said:


> I just finished watching a taped Flanders and two things really stood out to me. First of all, Hoste went at about the 300 meter sign..that seems pretty far out when your'e up against Boonen .
> 
> I agree with the starter of this thread but I'll go one further and say...(uh-oh) I'll bet Hoste has some extra cash in his pocket tonight.
> Make it look good, make it exciting but Tom must win at all costs! I know that's a stretch but.... Belgian wins no matter what. We will never know for sure but I'll bet when they watched the replay tonight, George hit the roof at Hoste's totally botched finale!


He went too early,that's for sure. Looked to me he started the sprint at around the 400 -350 meter to go sign. I think he wanted the win for himself. He certainly would have had a better chance at the win if he had waited longer before starting the sprint. Hoste probably disobeyed team orders to work for George, hoping for the win. 

No extra cash in his pocket (from Boonen, at least) More likely he got yelled at after the race. This might explain the expression on his face on the podium.


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## Francis Cebedo (Aug 1, 2001)

atpjunkie said:


> do something that looked other than
> 
> self destructive, retarded classics strategy.
> 
> watch what Mapei and Domo FF did to George in P-R, that is how ya win.


Absolutely. That is how you take down a superior force.

Incidentally. Where was Hoste's team car at the end??? Boonen's car was with him at least a couple of times... giving him food, strategizing, giving Hoste the evil eye. Where was Hoste's car? Discovery may have good management for the Tours, NOT the classics.

francois


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## Francis Cebedo (Aug 1, 2001)

Great race btw. We can't stop talking about it even though the end result was as predicted.

This is great setup for the Paris-Roubaix. I cannot wait!!

Phil Ligget was weeeeaaaaak in repeating that Hoste had an equal chance to Boonen in getting the win.

francois


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## key (Mar 8, 2004)

You can look at this so many ways, and I won't disagree that Hoste's communication of his tactics to his team Suck! But then again Boonen was in 2nd wheel when this happened and GH was in what 8th-9th? So its also poor placement for him, and if he really had such great legs and Boonen goes, why not cover the move. What do you think hes not going to get away? Also they were at 15-20 sec ahead for a while, with Kroon trying to bridge up, thats when GH blew it. If you bridge up your golden, if they get pulled back your golden, but if you sit in and watch, your toast. 

I really hope this lights a fire under GH's Arse and he shows up at PR ready to use that anger, he will need it.


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## TurboTurtle (Feb 4, 2004)

Len J said:


> in your logic.
> 
> What if it was Boonan who went instead of Hoste? George still wasn't in a position to follow.....asleep at the wheel.


GH didn't have to cover Boonan, he had a strong team mate covering him. If Boonan attackes, Hoste covers and sits on him. Boonan can then either drag Hosta to the line and give him a real chance of winning or slow up and get caught after wasting that much energy. - TF


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## Dwayne Barry (Feb 16, 2003)

stevesbike said:


> Apparently, GH had no idea Hoste was going to make that move-if he's supposed to be working for GH then what was that about?


Hincapie may have been the leader but Hoste wasn't there to work for him. They both needed to try to get away without Boonen, like everyone else. They even talked a good game beforehand about how they had to attack, attack...and that's what Hoste did. 

After Tenbosse was when the team work either fell apart or Disco decided second was acceptable. At that point Hoste should have sat on Boonen in hopes of dropping him on the Muur or Bosberg, or having a slim chance in the sprint if Boonen took him all the way to the line, or Boonen could have sat up after expending all that energy and let the group catch him, or even possibly been pulled back by a strong chase group. 

Hincapie should have contributed to pull a strong group away on Tenbosse or the Muur. 

Disco would have been throwing away a sure second for a chance to win. So they either decided second was OK or Hoste gave them a big F.U. and rode for himself.

None of which excuses Hincapie for missing the move in the first place. Kroon gave him the excuse to get across and no one would have faulted him for joining Hoste as Hoste alone didn't have much of a chance against Boonen.


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## thefunkyplumber (Sep 27, 2004)

*Discovery's DS' pre-race prediction?*

Dirk Demol (Discovery): "A group of about six, seven guys, with Bettini amongst them, will break away and put Boonen in a tight situation. Bettini will win the sprint."

1.Bettini
2.Dekker
3.Hincapie

Well, hey, at least he put George third


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## nwilkes (Jun 21, 2004)

*Boonen is great and all, but...*

What is up with the motor pacing Belgian riders get for free in the spring classics? Hoste and Boonen made that break stick in about a _kilometer _behind one the motor bikes in a head wind. Why not just give everyone a vespa to draft off of? Hell, let Johan Museeuw drive the one for Tom.
Karsten Kroon - "When Boonen opened up right after the climb there were strong headwinds and it seemed like they had an advantage because of the motor bikes in front of them."

Fabian Cancellara - "I think the motorbikes gave the riders at the front an advantage, which influenced the race in a way it shouldn’t have."

What a dissappointing race.


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## Fredke (Dec 10, 2004)

Dwayne Barry said:


> After Tenbosse was when the team work either fell apart or Disco decided second was acceptable. At that point Hoste should have sat on Boonen in hopes of dropping him on the Muur or Bosberg, or having a slim chance in the sprint if Boonen took him all the way to the line, or Boonen could have sat up after expending all that energy and let the group catch him, or even possibly been pulled back by a strong chase group.


Exactly. I first thought Hoste was setting Boonen up for a no-win situation where he's way off the front with Hoste and then LH sits up and lets Boonen choose between pulling for the rest of the race and wearing himself out or sitting up himself and letting the chase group swallow him. I totally couldn't figure what was in it for Hoste to pull so hard all the way to the final km.

As to Hincapie, there were enough good strong riders in the chase group that he could have could have put together a chase-down that would have left him fresher than Boonen. The down-side to that would have been Bettini sitting in and being completely ready to serve GH at the sprint, but GH vs. Bettini might have been better odds for a Disco win than LH vs. TB.

On the other hand, if it had come down to a bunch sprint Disco would risk no podium places, so perhaps taking second and third seemed an attractive way to play it safe. Not exacty _La Course En Tête_, but no one does Belgian tactics as well as the Belgians and Boonen definitely rode a cannibalistic race.


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## zosocane (Aug 29, 2004)

Folks, here is what Disco DS Dirk Demol had to say on the Hoste vs. Hincapie episode:

"George was clearly frustrated at the end of the race, it's true," Demol said. "He had the best legs he's ever had here, and then two riders escape and one is his teammate. Many people have asked, why Leif? He couldn’t win a sprint against Boonen. Well, I can tell you." 

"When Leif attacked with 32 km left it was not supposed to have been a race-deciding effort. We were trying to break up the Quick Step grip on the front of the race. We figured a big effort could get the numbers down to maybe two of them and two of us and then we'd see how it went. Leif was surprised to see that he had only Boonen with him, and radioed back to me to see what he should do." 

"I told Leif that he could cooperate but that Boonen had to take the longest pulls. I also told him that if George could bridge up, then Leif could not pull any more and he'd have to wait for George. Leif was completely happy with this plan, as was Johan (Bruyneel) when I spoke with him later. I radioed George and told him to try and drop the riders he was with and then Leif will be waiting for you. George agreed and put in a big effort on the Muur, but couldn’t shake the guys he was with, and that's why Leif and Boonen went to the line 1-2." 

If what Demol is saying is true, it was a good tactic for Hoste to attack. The fact is that George should have jumped on Boonen's wheel -- but he didn't. Had George done so, that would have attracted other riders like Bettini Ballan and others, but they might have caused a selection and dropped a few other riders, perhaps Pozzato in the process. At the end of the day, IMO even if Hincapie was with Boonen in the final KM, it would have been a repeat of last year's Paris-Roubaix in the velodrome. Other than Petacchi, nobody beats Boonen in a sprint, so you need to drop Boonen before the final KM by attacking constantly and getting him tired. Or call Team Cinzano and whip out the iron bar as you ride alongside Boonen.


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## Francis Cebedo (Aug 1, 2001)

fornaca68 said:


> Folks, here is what Disco DS Dirk Demol had to say on the Hoste vs. Hincapie episode:
> 
> "George was clearly frustrated at the end of the race, it's true," Demol said. "He had the best legs he's ever had here, and then two riders escape and one is his teammate. Many people have asked, why Leif? He couldn’t win a sprint against Boonen. Well, I can tell you."
> 
> ....


Dirk Demol is a moron. He is Belgian and I suspect his judgement was clouded by seeing a Belgian or his Belgian win the race. I don't really mean that, I think.

I thought Leif was the renegade and disobeyed all team orders. Instead, it is Demol who gave this inane move the blessing.

Once he isolated Hoste with Boonen, helping Boonen, the race was lost. 

francois


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## Francis Cebedo (Aug 1, 2001)

nwilkes said:


> What is up with the motor pacing Belgian riders get for free in the spring classics? Hoste and Boonen made that break stick in about a _kilometer _behind one the motor bikes in a head wind. Why not just give everyone a vespa to draft off of? Hell, let Johan Museeuw drive the one for Tom.
> Karsten Kroon - "When Boonen opened up right after the climb there were strong headwinds and it seemed like they had an advantage because of the motor bikes in front of them."
> 
> Fabian Cancellara - "I think the motorbikes gave the riders at the front an advantage, which influenced the race in a way it shouldn’t have."
> ...


It was not a disappointing race. It was one of the best races of the year!!

If motorbikes were an issue, I would need a lot more evidence than a couple of whining losers like Kroon and Cancellara. I mean, seriously. Those are big allegations.

What I saw was a great, great race!!

francois


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## goose127 (Jun 9, 2004)

I don't think there was any conspiracy among the Belgians, but it would be interesting to see if Leife\ is on the Disco squad next year. I doubt anyone was going to beat Boonen on Sunday, and unless catastophe stikes, he will probably win again next week. But Hoste's move played right into Boonen's hand

I also would have an etirely different attitude if Hincapie had said that he and the team was aware that Leif was going to make a move. When you have teammates in the lead group, you have to work together otherwise you negate the advantage. I still think his move was stupid and that he should have made things hard for Boonen. Unless the team had desginated both Hoste and Hincapie as team leaders then he shafted the teams efforts.


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## nwilkes (Jun 21, 2004)

francois said:


> If motorbikes were an issue, I would need a lot more evidence than a couple of whining losers like Kroon and Cancellara. I mean, seriously. Those are big allegations.
> francois


4th picture down.
http://pezcyclingnews.com/?pg=fullstory&id=3899


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## maddog (Feb 26, 2004)

I'm sure it's especially difficult to give up a podium position, but could Hoste have made Boonen work more over over the last 30k? I would never say Hoste was giving up, but it did seem like he was giving up the chance for his team to win #1.....


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## Dwayne Barry (Feb 16, 2003)

fornaca68 said:


> -
> "I told Leif that he could cooperate but that Boonen had to take the longest pulls. I also told him that if George could bridge up, then Leif could not pull any more and he'd have to wait for George. Leif was completely happy with this plan, as was Johan (Bruyneel) when I spoke with him later. I radioed George and told him to try and drop the riders he was with and then Leif will be waiting for you. George agreed and put in a big effort on the Muur, but couldn’t shake the guys he was with, and that's why Leif and Boonen went to the line 1-2."


So what was George so pissed off about? He had his chance and didn't do anything about it. George made it sound like he was obligated not to work, be the good teammate and all, but that doesn't appear to have been the case. Unless George thought he should have been able to come across with a few others and Demol said only if he was by himself?

I still wouldn't have had Hoste work with Boonen from Tenbosse to the Muur, but it sounds like George didn't do what was required to prevent Hoste/Disco settling for a second over taking a chance on the win.


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## tommyb (Oct 3, 2005)

Interestingly, a few weeks ago at Milan-San Remo, a similar situation happened. Boonen and Bettini were the obvious leaders for QS, but a teammate got into a break on the Poggio. Neither Boonen nor Bettini chased. Their team won, and I heard no whining from anyone on QS that the wrong teammate was the winner. I'm guessing that even if Pozzato had been caught in the finale, and Petacchi had won, there still would be no second guessing the attack on the Poggio. Even with very strong leaders, teams like QS are all about the team, and not the individual. Discovery seems to be more about the "leader".


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## 32and3cross (Feb 28, 2005)

*not really similar*



tommyb said:


> Interestingly, a few weeks ago at Milan-San Remo, a similar situation happened. Boonen and Bettini were the obvious leaders for QS, but a teammate got into a break on the Poggio. Neither Boonen nor Bettini chased. Their team won, and I heard no whining from anyone on QS that the wrong teammate was the winner. I'm guessing that even if Pozzato had been caught in the finale, and Petacchi had won, there still would be no second guessing the attack on the Poggio. Even with very strong leaders, teams like QS are all about the team, and not the individual. Discovery seems to be more about the "leader".


A. Pozzato did not cause the break he just covered it
B. He did not work in the break
C. He was the fastest sprinter in the break

Very very different


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## Bianchigirl (Sep 17, 2004)

tommyb is right though - and it's Disco's inflexibility that has always cost them the big Classics win. In MSR, QSI had the right rider in the right place at the right time all day - likewise at RvV. Disco persist in riding intractably for the one designated leader and it's costly - QSI had 4 riders who could theoretically have won Flanders because they would have been capable of attacking or being in the right attack at the right time - rather than sitting 7 riders back when the decisive move went and, presumably, waiting for the winning break to go on the Muur...


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## orange_julius (Jan 24, 2003)

Dwayne Barry said:


> Hoste rode a great race and did what was needed by attacking the group. But if Disco/Hoste were riding to win everyone knows by now you can't cooperate with Boonen to get a sprint finish. They should have at least tried something once the duo had established their gap and Boonen would have been tempted to drag Hoste to the line. But Hincapie shouldn't complain, it's not like he would have dropped or outsprinted Boonen either and it's not like he did anything to "force" Hoste to sit-on Boonen.


It may have been that Hoste was trying to bait Bettini into countering his move, but ended up with Boonen on his wheel and a 20-sec gap. What would one do in that situation? If GH were really strong, he should have tried to attack a second time right then, even if he were in 7th place. 

Also contrast Bettini's post-race comments with Hoste and Hincapie's post-race comments. I respect Bettini's great job blocking despite having said that he really, really wanted to win de Ronde. Disco can learn a page or two from Lefevere's team.


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## atpjunkie (Mar 23, 2002)

*couple points*

that pic of Boonen drafting is from last tears R-V-V.
QS in MSR had a man in every move, they never took a pull as they had Tom (leader )behind them. It is why Pozzato had fresh legs to make that jump, it may have also started
Petacchi's sprint earlier giving tom (if needed) a better chance to pass. was brilliant tactics but again it involved having a rider mark and SIT ON a break.
QS had the right riders (plural) in every break (and yes it is why they win, they rule)
as if memory serves me right Pozzato was the 4th QS rider in a 'move', the freshness of his legs from sitting on is what allowed him his jump. Tactically it put a QS rider in every opportunity for the win with Boonen being the finalcard if it all came back together. What Disco did was not put a rider into a winning opportunity so it is vastly different than what QS did at MSR. Had Hoste sat on my guess is we would have wound up with Boonen, Hoste, Hincapie, P-V-P, Ballan and Cancellara with possibly Klier and Bettini (who like Zabel, Kroon and Petito were looking cooked by the Valkenberg).
So that would have put 2 Disco guys in the group with P-V-P, Ballan and Cancellara. Ballan's sprint would have made the guys want to break it up plus P-V-P would have been an agitator as this was his last good shot IMHO. Now you add Cancellara who has shown tough in the classics and everybody would have been shooting for Tom. So you wind up with a small group all with eyes on Tom who would have been a tad frustrated at having Hoste sit on him and Discovery being the only team with 2 (and it was proven by their results) strong riders. Not a guarantee of victory but far better odds than what they did.
Instead they (or Hoste) rode for second. That wasn't a winning strategy and I'm sure Hoste's Belgian status played into it.


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## Dwayne Barry (Feb 16, 2003)

Bianchigirl said:


> tommyb is right though - and it's Disco's inflexibility that has always cost them the big Classics win. In MSR, QSI had the right rider in the right place at the right time all day - likewise at RvV. Disco persist in riding intractably for the one designated leader and it's costly - QSI had 4 riders who could theoretically have won Flanders because they would have been capable of attacking or being in the right attack at the right time - rather than sitting 7 riders back when the decisive move went and, presumably, waiting for the winning break to go on the Muur...



I think Lefevre has shown at Mapei and QS that the way to win these races is to have as many riders in the finale as possible. Now that they have one of the very strongest if not the absolute strongest rider on their team they are dominating. And he's definitely the fastest finisher of anyone likely to be there at the finish which just makes them all that more likely to dominate these races.

I've seen some more post-race quotes where Hincapie is talking like he thinks he can sprint with Boonen. Hoste may not be a sprinter at all, but I'm not sure why Hincapie thinks he could give Boonen much more of a run for his money?

I think the others need to hope for bad luck on Boonen's part to have much of a chance come Sunday.


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## goose127 (Jun 9, 2004)

*Disco planning*

Inflexibility is one thing. I think Demol is just spinning the outcome to show that there is no team discord. GH is certainly too nice of a guy, that is why I jumped on his comments that he felt it should have been him and that Hoste's move was all spur of the moment. For George to is pretty demonstrative. In MSR, quickstep was working as a team, In the Ronde there was no plan and no team cohesiveness for Discovery. I still think Hoste is a loose cannon and with the loss of Barry and Roger Hammond, I think Hincapie's chances will be slim this Sunday. Boonen can be beat, but it will take a couple of teams to implement something that wears him out.


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## Coolhand (Jul 28, 2002)

Fignon's Barber said:


> Hoste clearly screwed the team. And his post race comments were hilarious, as quoted in cyclingnews.com. Referring to himself in 3rd person (" this leif hoste is an even stronger leif hoste"), dissing hincapie for not attacking, and proclaiming himself as the man to watch for roubaix. At least hincapie had the common sense not to rip a belgian in belgium.


It was clear that her was pulling a Boonen/Landis and riding for his next contract with another team. If a QS rider pulled that stunt what would have happened? Exactly- he would have been roasted alive. 

I would say chances are 100% Hoste is on another (Belgian) team next year.


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## Coolhand (Jul 28, 2002)

goose127 said:


> Inflexibility is one thing. I think Demol is just spinning the outcome to show that there is no team discord. GH is certainly too nice of a guy, that is why I jumped on his comments that he felt it should have been him and that Hoste's move was all spur of the moment. For George to is pretty demonstrative. In MSR, quickstep was working as a team, In the Ronde there was no plan and no team cohesiveness for Discovery. I still think Hoste is a loose cannon and with the loss of Barry and Roger Hammond, I think Hincapie's chances will be slim this Sunday. Boonen can be beat, but it will take a couple of teams to implement something that wears him out.


Demol may be trying to save his job too. Too bad Hincape already let the cat out of the bag. 

I bet a team overpays for Hoste next year- as trotting out PvP et al yet again, and getting *skunked* on home turf is very bad for job security. 

It's HILARIOUS that Discovery is being bagged on as a _bad_ tactics/classics team. They had 2/3's of the frickin' podium! Where was CSC (again), where the other the other supposed classics heavy hitters? Where was T-Mobile? Where was Rabobank? Those teams completely dropped the ball, not the team with two guys on the podium despite losing two big motors in a crash. Sure QS looks good, but that's easy with Boonen--- where were the other Belgian and Dutch teams? CSC had two guys in the break and got nothing- who will call them out? 

Yeesh.


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## atpjunkie (Mar 23, 2002)

*possibly*

but I'd put my $ on Davitamon Lotto. P-V-P is getting old and they need a new contender. I'm sure Boonen doesn't want another 'contender' in 'his' race on his team, especially one who appears to ride for himself. I don't think Lefevre would be big on that either. Remember Boonen was riding with/for Hincapie until George went for a swim in P-R.


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## Coolhand (Jul 28, 2002)

atpjunkie said:


> but I'd put my $ on Davitamon Lotto. P-V-P is getting old and they need a new contender. I'm sure Boonen doesn't want another 'contender' in 'his' race on his team, especially one who appears to ride for himself. I don't think Lefevre would be big on that either. Remember Boonen was riding with/for Hincapie until George went for a swim in P-R.


I would agree- given the poor results shown there the pressure must be getting pretty intense. Discovery is not really a team that hangs their hat on the classics, they are a GT team. Getting 2/3 of the podium at the Ronde- that's pretty darn good. There are several "classics" teams that performed very poorly so far this year- I have to imagine the sponsors are not amused.


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## Spinnerman (Oct 21, 2004)

My observations,

Hincapie should have been following Boonen's wheel in the select group of riders. Once Hoste Jumped and Boonen followed, Hincapie should have attacked right with Boonen to to get up to Hoste. If the break had stuck with a 2 to 1 advantage, Hoste and Hincapie should have taken turns attacking Boonen one after the other until the end. Boonen is strong but I wonder if he could have continually worked for the rest of the race to pull back each of the DC boys if they kept atacking him.

Hincapie is probably more mad at himself for missing Boonen's attack, again. Hincapie was asleep at the wheel.

In the last KM, Hoste was in the ideal position. I would have waited and waited patiently for Boonen to jump and then given it my all to win. It may not have worked out for Hoste, but better then attacking from 300 meters with Boonen looking right at him. Just my $02.


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## Francis Cebedo (Aug 1, 2001)

Hoste is a idiot.

If I'm not mistaken, Hoste is the one who crossed the lowered railroad crossing in the Paris-Roubaix. His teammate Gusev quickly followed and Van Petegem tentatively followed.

As we all know now, all three were disqualified.

Way to follow up your Flanders Hoste!

francois


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## Spunout (Aug 12, 2002)

Dwayne Barry said:


> Lotto would seem to be the more logical place to go unless the money is way better at QS?


You called it man.

http://www.cyclingnews.com/news.php?id=news/2006/apr06/apr12news2


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