# SL vs non-SL?



## 1speed_Mike

As luck would have it, I found a new Compact SL. I was originally set to get just the Compact (non-SL) since the SL was no longer available. But, I now have a chance to get the SL and I'm torn. 

Can anyone who has ridden both compare the rides? How much stiffer is the SL over the non-SL? I'm 135lbs and ride fairly aggressively and like to hammer the pedals. I'd like a stiff frame, but not so much that it rattles my teeth. 

I have been lusting for a Moots for a long, long time. Tried to deny it, tried to passify it with a carbon roadie. But still, I keep coming back to the Moots Compact (or SL). I've owned 4 different Sevens since 98 (now down to 1), but there is just something about a Moots. I love Ti, I love the Moots finish, welds, vibe, etc. You guys already know what I'm referring to.

So, is the SL ride more fly? If so, do I buy?

....and, fork recommendations? Easton EC90SLX, Reynolds UL or Alpha Q CS20? Moots recommends a fork with 45mm rake. Easton is 43mm. Alpha Q is 44mm. Reynolds is 43 or 45mm.


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## TiDreaming

Get the SL so you wont die wondering...


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## chiup01

I have the Compact and I don't really wonder about the SL. Then again, if you have the money and will keep wondering...get it.

Most people say the ride is not that much different and the weight difference is not worth the price, if that matters.


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## 1speed_Mike

TiDreaming said:


> Get the SL so you wont die wondering...


True enough! 

I was looking at the Moots Compact SL a couple years ago. Got sidetracked with other things, came back to it last year, held-off and now, here I am, back again. But, this time, due to the discontinuing of the SL, it drives home the fact that I need to act *now* if I ever want to ride the SL. There's no *real* reason for the SL over the non-SL....the non-SL is gorgeous and exquisite! But, that SL just keeps calling me 

All of my previous Ti frames have been 3/2.5. I've never ridden a 6/4 Ti frame. I was curious how the differences in Ti translated into differences (if any) in the ride and was hoping that those who've been fortunate enough to ride both frames could chime in. What made you guys pick your SLs?

Here's what Moots had to say: "_The weight difference between the 6/4 52cm and the 3/2.5 52cm is about 0.2 pounds. The 6/4 ride is a minimally stiffer ride because of the composition of the material it’s made of. You wouldn’t notice a difference between them unless you rode one every day for a couple of months and then switched to the other. We use a thicker bottom bracket shell and have a two pass weld system, so there’s stiffness in the joints, but the tubing retains its natural absorbency. –Makes for a very sturdy bike._" :thumbsup: 

Now, for forks. Moots recommends a fork with 45mm rake for a 52cm. Reynolds is the only one with a 45mm rake (Easton = 43mm and Alpha Q = 44mm). It looks like a lot of Moots owners are using the Reynolds Ouzo Pro. I also see some Eastons and Alpha Qs, as well as, Look. I had the Reynolds Ouzo Pro fork on my old Seven Ti Axiom and it was a nice solid fork, never a problem. But, that was several years ago (99-03). The Ouzo Pro reviews are excellent! The Reynolds UL really looks nice!

Now, important decision: headset color? I was set to go King, black. Boring, I know. But, it's style (or lack thereof) never dies. I've got a 10-yr old King black headset on my SS MTB that's still going strong and looks the same as day 1! But, my bike is going to be pretty bland (and I like bland): all black: stem (Extralite), bar (Syntace Racelite Carbon), post (Campy Record), saddle (SLR), Record group and 50mm carbon tubbies. So, the HS is really the only option for color. The UL has a very slight blue in Reynolds logo. How's this against the blue King HS?


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## chiup01

Look through the Moots Registry thread and you'll see that all the Moots (I think) have Chris King headsets. I have the pewter on mine and it's kind of bland. I like the look of the orange and the pink. Stands out and looks classy.


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## 1speed_Mike

chiup01 said:


> Look through the Moots Registry thread and you'll see that all the Moots (I think) have Chris King headsets. I have the pewter on mine and it's kind of bland. I like the look of the orange and the pink. Stands out and looks classy.


Great idea!  I've been through the Registry a thousand times, lusting over Moots'. This time, I focused on HS colors. Using zippi's and chuckice's as inspiration, I think I'm going to go black. Boring, I know, but, it just seems to go:


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## chuckice

There's nothing boring about my ride!


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## 1speed_Mike

chuckice said:


> There's nothing boring about my ride!


LOL! I meant 'boring' as in classic and timeless. I usually don't experiment with much color on my bikes as I find that what's trendy today, isn't tomorrow. Black, silver, Ti, etc. are all pretty timeless, IMHO and would be considered boring by others. Since I'm going to be keeping this bike for a long, long time, I'm going to go with yet another black King HS for yet another Ti frameset. 

Your bike is anything but boring, trust me!!!!


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## chuckice

1speed_Mike said:


> LOL! I meant 'boring' as in classic and timeless. I usually don't experiment with much color on my bikes as I find that what's trendy today, isn't tomorrow. Black, silver, Ti, etc. are all pretty timeless, IMHO and would be considered boring by others. Since I'm going to be keeping this bike for a long, long time, I'm going to go with yet another black King HS for yet another Ti frameset.
> 
> Your bike is anything but boring, trust me!!!!


I was just kidding around.  I was originally going with a CK red headset and hubs with homegrown wheelset. But the LW's changed most of that...


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## 1speed_Mike

chuckice said:


> I was just kidding around.  I was originally going with a CK red headset and hubs with homegrown wheelset. But the LW's changed most of that...


Ya, I saw your smiley at the very, very bottom of your post  :thumbsup: 

Wicked ride, btw!


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## chuckice

1speed_Mike said:


> Ya, I saw your smiley at the very, very bottom of your post  :thumbsup:
> 
> Wicked ride, btw!


Thanks...and you can't go wrong with the SL. Rides fantastic... :thumbsup:


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## Beerman

The SL is an amazing ride and it may feel marginaly, very marginaly, stiffer than the non with the same wheelset. Change wheels between them and the bike changes completely. 

Also, I have a red CK headset on the other two...the Psychlo which shipped today gets black.


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## smudge

1speed_Mike said:


> True enough!
> 
> I was looking at the Moots Compact SL a couple years ago. Got sidetracked with other things, came back to it last year, held-off and now, here I am, back again. But, this time, due to the discontinuing of the SL, it drives home the fact that I need to act *now* if I ever want to ride the SL. There's no *real* reason for the SL over the non-SL....the non-SL is gorgeous and exquisite! But, that SL just keeps calling me
> 
> All of my previous Ti frames have been 3/2.5. I've never ridden a 6/4 Ti frame. I was curious how the differences in Ti translated into differences (if any) in the ride and was hoping that those who've been fortunate enough to ride both frames could chime in. What made you guys pick your SLs?
> 
> Here's what Moots had to say: "_The weight difference between the 6/4 52cm and the 3/2.5 52cm is about 0.2 pounds. The 6/4 ride is a minimally stiffer ride because of the composition of the material it’s made of. You wouldn’t notice a difference between them unless you rode one every day for a couple of months and then switched to the other. We use a thicker bottom bracket shell and have a two pass weld system, so there’s stiffness in the joints, but the tubing retains its natural absorbency. –Makes for a very sturdy bike._" :thumbsup:
> 
> Now, for forks. Moots recommends a fork with 45mm rake for a 52cm. Reynolds is the only one with a 45mm rake (Easton = 43mm and Alpha Q = 44mm). It looks like a lot of Moots owners are using the Reynolds Ouzo Pro. I also see some Eastons and Alpha Qs, as well as, Look. I had the Reynolds Ouzo Pro fork on my old Seven Ti Axiom and it was a nice solid fork, never a problem. But, that was several years ago (99-03). The Ouzo Pro reviews are excellent! The Reynolds UL really looks nice!
> 
> Now, important decision: headset color? I was set to go King, black. Boring, I know. But, it's style (or lack thereof) never dies. I've got a 10-yr old King black headset on my SS MTB that's still going strong and looks the same as day 1! But, my bike is going to be pretty bland (and I like bland): all black: stem (Extralite), bar (Syntace Racelite Carbon), post (Campy Record), saddle (SLR), Record group and 50mm carbon tubbies. So, the HS is really the only option for color. The UL has a very slight blue in Reynolds logo. How's this against the blue King HS?


First, props to Moots for not trying to take the hard sell on the 6/4 frame. Tom Kellogg has said over and over again that there are no advantages (other than minimal weight loss) in 6/4 over 3/2.5 tubing. I tend to believe what he says concerning Ti. If you want to save some weight over the standard straight guage tubing, Moots can get you butted 3/2.5 tubes that are butted not too far from them in CO. A 52 is going to be pretty dern light already.

Second, if you're getting the frame directly from Moots, and ESPECIALLY if they're doing a custom frame for you, let them tell you (based on your input of course) what offset to use on the fork. For some reason, if you're married to a certain fork, make sure they know that so they can adjust the front end accordingly. On a 52cm frame, I'd be inclined to recommend a 50mm offset Ouzo with an appropriately angled HA to get the handling you're looking for.


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## 1speed_Mike

smudge said:


> First, props to Moots for not trying to take the hard sell on the 6/4 frame. Tom Kellogg has said over and over again that there are no advantages (other than minimal weight loss) in 6/4 over 3/2.5 tubing. I tend to believe what he says concerning Ti. If you want to save some weight over the standard straight guage tubing, Moots can get you butted 3/2.5 tubes that are butted not too far from them in CO. A 52 is going to be pretty dern light already.


Yes, I'd agree. And, here's what Moots had to say as well about the 6/4 vs 3/2.5:

_The weight difference between the 6/4 52cm and the 3/2.5 52cm is about 0.2 pounds. The 6/4 ride is a minimally stiffer ride because of the composition of the material it’s made of. You wouldn’t notice a difference between them unless you rode one every day for a couple of months and then switched to the other. We use a thicker bottom bracket shell and have a two pass weld system, so there’s stiffness in the joints, but the tubing retains its natural absorbency. –Makes for a very sturdy bike. _

So, is the difference in price of the 6/4 vs the 3/2.5 worth it? Likely not, but that's never stopped me before  The same can be said for straight-gauge and butted Ti. I had both a Seven Ti Sola (butted) and Ti Verve (straight) and spec'd both pretty much the same interms of stiffness, etc. The only difference was weight due to the butting. I'm sure there were subtle differences in the 'feel' of the bike, but I couldn't feel them (mostly because they were MTB's). With a roadie, the differences should be more pronounced.

I'm a bit of WW, so 0.2lbs here, 0.2lbs there adds-up  The Compact SL in 52cm is 2.75lbs (hardly light). But, my build should be in at ~14lbs (I'm only 135lbs).



> Second, if you're getting the frame directly from Moots, and ESPECIALLY if they're doing a custom frame for you, let them tell you (based on your input of course) what offset to use on the fork. For some reason, if you're married to a certain fork, make sure they know that so they can adjust the front end accordingly. On a 52cm frame, I'd be inclined to recommend a 50mm offset Ouzo with an appropriately angled HA to get the handling you're looking for.


No, I'm going with a stock 52 Compact SL. Here it is, virtually in BikeCAD:










Regarding rake, I specifically asked Moots what they recommended for the 52cm and they said 45mm:

_GS10s and Ouzo pros are the forks we sell the most of to dealers, both are good quality and come from reputable manufacturers. A 371mm length is common and correct, you’re looking for as close to a 45mm rake as possible on a 52cm frame. _


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## dead flag blues

1speed_Mike said:


> Now, important decision: headset color? I was set to go King, black. Boring, I know. But, it's style (or lack thereof) never dies. I've got a 10-yr old King black headset on my SS MTB that's still going strong and looks the same as day 1! But, my bike is going to be pretty bland (and I like bland): all black: stem (Extralite), bar (Syntace Racelite Carbon), post (Campy Record), saddle (SLR), Record group and 50mm carbon tubbies. So, the HS is really the only option for color. The UL has a very slight blue in Reynolds logo. How's this against the blue King HS?
> ]


Why you chose Record over a Moots post? Should be a beautiful bike..


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## barbedwire

Nike, nice looking bike. Almost my size!  What size diameter is your top and down tube on that Moots?


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## 1speed_Mike

dead flag blues said:


> Why you chose Record over a Moots post? Should be a beautiful bike..


No real reason. I've got a Moots layback and a Moots straight post on my other rides. Was just looking for something different.


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## 1speed_Mike

barbedwire said:


> Nike, nice looking bike. Almost my size!  What size diameter is your top and down tube on that Moots?


I drew them at 38.1mm. I'm pretty sure I read somewhere that this is what Moots uses for their TT and DT diameters. I tried to make the CAD drawing as accurate as possible.


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