# GP4000IIS or Schwalbe Pro One Tubeless?



## eyeheartny (Jul 6, 2016)

I'm getting a new set of wheels in the next week or so (HED Belgium Plus rims) and I'm debating whether to go tubeless for the first time or continue to ride with a standard tubed setup. 

For general road riding in Southern California, which would you guys pick? A Conti GP4000 II with standard butyl tubes, same tire with latex tubes, or a Schwalbe Pro One tubeless setup? 

According to BicycleRollingResistance, the Schwalbe has a slight edge in rolling resistance over the Conti at the same width/PSI. 

Thanks!


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## ghettocop (Apr 19, 2014)

I think you will be disappointed with the performance and durability of the Schwalbe even with the benefits of tubeless. Tubeless for road isn't always the best choice, even though I use and enjoy tubeless. Many of our customers prefer tubed clinchers with a high quality tire, even after giving tubeless a try. Tubeless comes with some headaches to be certain. The GP4000's are a respected tire.


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## Oxtox (Aug 16, 2006)

have had many sets of 4KIIS, recently tried some Schwalbe ONE clinchers (all 23 mm).

similar ride qualities, but the Contis wear much better.

latex and tubeless...? no thanks. butyl tubes work fine.


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## eyeheartny (Jul 6, 2016)

Oxtox said:


> have had many sets of 4KIIS, recently tried some Schwalbe ONE clinchers (all 23 mm).
> 
> similar ride qualities, but the Contis wear much better.
> 
> latex and tubeless...? no thanks. butyl tubes work fine.


What don't you like about latex tubes? Just curious as many say they ride better.


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## Oxtox (Aug 16, 2006)

eyeheartny said:


> What don't you like about latex tubes? Just curious as many say they ride better.


cost, bleed-down rate...just not worth the marginal improvements they provide for my style of riding (i.e., not racing).

I buy Kenda butyl tubes in bulk on ebay for a fairly low cost. air them up and can typically can ride for 4-5 days before they need to be topped off...

pumping up the latex tubes every day isn't really a huge deal, but if I don't have to do it...just one less thing to deal with.

several of my riding partners have tried latex and none stayed with them over the long-term.


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## Notvintage (May 19, 2013)

Go with the GP4000s with a latex tube. It's an unbeatable combination. Forget Schawlobe and tubeless. 
Continental Grand Prix 4000S II Rolling Resistance Review


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## Roland44 (Mar 21, 2013)

Notvintage said:


> Go with the GP4000s with a latex tube. It's an unbeatable combination. Forget Schawlobe and tubeless.
> Continental Grand Prix 4000S II Rolling Resistance Review


Second that!


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## eyeheartny (Jul 6, 2016)

Notvintage said:


> Go with the GP4000s with a latex tube. It's an unbeatable combination. Forget Schawlobe and tubeless.
> Continental Grand Prix 4000S II Rolling Resistance Review


I saw another article of theirs that the 28c version had even lower rolling resistance than the 25. Think I'll get those. Seems like bigger latex tubes are harder to find, no? Do you know of any that'll work with a 28c tire?


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## cobra_kai (Jul 22, 2014)

Vittoria makes a 25-28 tube: Vittoria Latex Inner Tube | Chain Reaction Cycles

I think anything that is supposed to be good for a 25 mm tire should be fine as well.


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## aclinjury (Sep 12, 2011)

I'm in Socal. Here are my preferences.

For everyday riding/training, I use a "supple tire" on the front wheel, e.g., Vittoria or Veloflex or Specialized Turbo. For the rear wheel, I use something more durable like GP4K or Michelin Endurance, for longevity. I use a mix of 23mm and 25mm tires but I'm thinking that once my 23mm stock runs out, I'll be just going with 25mm tires. For tubes, I use plain vanilla thin butyl tubes.

I haven't used the same tire at both the front and rear in a long long time. All my bikes have differing front and rear tire setup. And that's the way it ought to be. Front and rear wheels are tasked with different tasks, so why should we not use different tires best fitted for each task, right.

I've tried tubeless and latex, no thanks. They're either too expensive and/or too much hassle (I've posted a few detailed posts about my pros/cons on RBR regarding tubeless). But in general, for Socal riding, you don't need tubeless nor latex. Socal has good roads, pavement quality is good, punctures are rare because roads are usally clean (unless you're a bigger person like 200+ lbs in which case maybe a 28mm tubeless tire like Hutchinson Sector may be better).

Now, I also have a set of tubular tires that I fancy using them for weekend rides with the club. Why? because i can. Like I said, Socal roads are so good that that I personally don't fear using tubular on a training ride. I do carry a spare tubular with me and stuff it in one of the bottle cages though. Chances of getting 2 flats on a ride in Socal is like... zero to none. And there's always Uber just in case. If there's a place that anyone should ride on tubular and not fear of getting stranded, it's in Socal. Life is too short to live in fear and not experience the full cycling experience, eh. But I digress.

But back to your question, just use a soft tire up front, harder tire out back, and thin butyle tubes. That is probably most optimal cost/performance approach for an average cyclist in Socal, IMO.

edit:
I want to also add one thing that A LOT of people neglect to discuss when mentioning/asking about tire performance, and that is tire handling. Magazine reviews can only list rolling resistance tests, and while the results of these test may or may not apply to real life,... but people should not focus on just rolling resistance as an almost sole factor for tire performance. Socal has a lot of mountain roads too, so chances are you'll ride these roads. Tire handling, i.e., cornering, is probably more important to consider than tire rolling resistance if you descend fast. The Vittoria and Veloflex are awesome around corners due to their suppleness, as is the Michelin Competition. Unfortunately, magazine reviews don't tell much about tire handling, partly because tire handling depends on may factors (including the rider's skills) and tire handling can also be a subject criteria (what works for me may not work for you).


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## cooskull (Nov 30, 2013)

Asking whether tubeless tire X is better than clincher tire Y is the wrong question you should be asking. First consider for yourself whether tubeless tire's benefits/drawbacks make it worth trying for your particular situation. Once you answer that question then you can choose specific tire makes.


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## pmf (Feb 23, 2004)

I really like Conti GP4000S tires. I have them on several of my bikes. I'd describe them as a medium wearing tire. They're a bit larger than say the same size Michelin Pro4 tires (I think 23 is plenty big). They corner real well -- especially on those wider HED Belgian rims (you're going to like them a lot). 

As for tubes, the only difference you'll feel with a latex tube is having to pump up your tires a lot more often. I tried latex once and found there's no upside, but definite downside. Don't bother with them. Tubeless? Isn't that for mountain bikes?


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## jnbrown (Dec 9, 2009)

GP4000S is a great tire but I find them to ride a little harsher than other tires.
Right now I am riding Schwalbe One clincher (not tubeless) and finding them to ride really nice.


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## cobra_kai (Jul 22, 2014)

Is that the Michelin Power Competition? I haven't read about many people who have tried it so I'd be interested in some more feedback if you have any.


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## RL7836 (Jun 17, 2014)

pmf said:


> As for tubes, the only difference you'll feel with a latex tube is having to pump up your tires a lot more often. I tried latex once and found there's no upside, but definite downside. Don't bother with them. Tubeless? Isn't that for mountain bikes?


My experience is on the other end of the spectrum w/ latex tubes. I'm typically fairly oblivious to changes. I got some custom wheels that cut ~1.5 lbs and couldn't tell any difference from my original wheels. However, I put latex tubes in & noticed the difference immediately. I've also gone from multiple flats per 1000 miles to maybe one in 4-5000 miles (same NJ roads). As for pumping, I always check my pressures before a ride anyway - no big deal.

For tires, I've been a chicken & have mostly stayed with The Conti's (GP 4000 II's) as they seem to strike a good balance between cornering, suppleness, efficiency & safety. I ride a lot of very curvy country roads, often at significant speeds (45 to 55+ mph) and while I'd like to try out some of the super supple tires, I really need to be confident in what I'm riding.


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## Kickgear (Sep 4, 2016)

Been using GP4000SII for the last 2 years, no complaints , but I would like to try something new. 

I'd like to hear opinions on Compass and Vittoria Corsa G+Open


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## pmf (Feb 23, 2004)

Kickgear said:


> Been using GP4000SII for the last 2 years, no complaints , but I would like to try something new.
> 
> I'd like to hear opinions on Compass and Vittoria Corsa G+Open


Try Michelin Pro4 Service Course.


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## Oxtox (Aug 16, 2006)

pmf said:


> Try Michelin Pro4 Service Course.


currently riding Pro 4 COMP Service Course...have liked the road feel, but at 2500 miles the rear is looking pretty worn.

tbh, I can't a huge amount of difference in ride quality between the 4KIIs, Schwalbe ONE, and the Pro 4.

mileage is the most notable factor...Conti wins on that count.


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## pmf (Feb 23, 2004)

Oxtox said:


> currently riding Pro 4 COMP Service Course...have liked the road feel, but at 2500 miles the rear is looking pretty worn.
> 
> tbh, I can't a huge amount of difference in ride quality between the 4KIIs, Schwalbe ONE, and the Pro 4.
> 
> mileage is the most notable factor...Conti wins on that count.


2500 miles on a rear tire is about as good as one can expect. I don't think I even get that many miles out of them on the rear. 

I agree that there's not a big difference in the feel of any of the high end tires. But then again, I don't feel the mystical ride of a latex tube either. I do feel that the newer wide rims corner a bit better, but that could be in my head.


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## Oxtox (Aug 16, 2006)

pmf said:


> 2500 miles on a rear tire is about as good as one can expect. I don't think I even get that many miles out of them on the rear.


have frequently gotten 3500+ from the 4KIIs...only have single data points for the others.


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## Kerry Irons (Feb 25, 2002)

pmf said:


> 2500 miles on a rear tire is about as good as one can expect. I don't think I even get that many miles out of them on the rear.


My mileage on my last 4 tires (I weigh about 175 lb./80 kg all tires 25 mm):
4800 GP 4000s
4200 GP 4000s
5100 GP 4000s II
4800 GP 4000s II

Is that "as good as one can expect"?


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## cxwrench (Nov 9, 2004)

I championed tubeless for quite a while but I'm over it. Both bikes that are used on the road are now back to tubes. 28mm on the Madone and 32mm on the Crockett. It only took 1 cut tire to bring me back. What a mess. I will always use tubeless on the mountain bike, the advantages far outweigh the risks, but on the road the chance of cutting up a tire is much greater...for me anyway...


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## Cartoscro (Sep 10, 2012)

cxwrench said:


> I championed tubeless for quite a while but I'm over it. Both bikes that are used on the road are now back to tubes. 28mm on the Madone and 32mm on the Crockett. It only took 1 cut tire to bring me back. What a mess. I will always use tubeless on the mountain bike, the advantages far outweigh the risks, but on the road the chance of cutting up a tire is much greater...for me anyway...


Are the risks of cutting a tubeless tire greater than a traditional tube setup? I don't think I've ever actually 'cut' a tire.


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## aclinjury (Sep 12, 2011)

cxwrench said:


> I championed tubeless for quite a while but I'm over it. Both bikes that are used on the road are now back to tubes. 28mm on the Madone and 32mm on the Crockett. It only took 1 cut tire to bring me back. What a mess. I will always use tubeless on the mountain bike, the advantages far outweigh the risks, but on the road the chance of cutting up a tire is much greater...for me anyway...


I remember you championing tubeless at a time I was blasting it. Like you said, one strategically cut (doesn't have to be a big one either) and it's over. And even if a cut/puncture does seal, it'll blow apart as the tire wears down.


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## aclinjury (Sep 12, 2011)

Cartoscro said:


> Are the risks of cutting a tubeless tire greater than a traditional tube setup? I don't think I've ever actually 'cut' a tire.


If you ride the Socal mountains a lot (like I do), there are lots of sharp rocks on the shoulders. Sidewall cut are a real possibility on any given ride. I have 2 tubeless cuts that would not seal, one on the sidewall, one on the middle of the tire (actually, the middle one did seal initially, but then bursted open later in the ride and would not seal again).


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## Global1 (Sep 14, 2016)

I have run conti 4000 25"s, Schwalbe pro-one 28"s and pro-one 25"s on my roval 21 id clx 32"s. The pro-one tubeless 25"s have a great ride quality and roll smoking fast. Had a rear flat after first 150 miles and it sealed back up but left a mess. I really like the tire"s and hope I don't have another puncture currently about 300 miles on set. Never had flat on conti's in 3000 miles. Conti's are not as smooth.


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## aclinjury (Sep 12, 2011)

Global1 said:


> I have run conti 4000 25"s, Schwalbe pro-one 28"s and pro-one 25"s on my roval 21 id clx 32"s. The pro-one tubeless 25"s have a great ride quality and roll smoking fast. Had a rear flat after first 150 miles and it sealed back up but left a mess. I really like the tire"s and hope I don't have another puncture currently about 300 miles on set. Never had flat on conti's in 3000 miles. Conti's are not as smooth.


hate to break it to you, but that sealed puncture may not last as long as you wish. As the tire wears down, the seal may burst open again, and now this time it might not seal again. Be prepare to put in a tube then.


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## Global1 (Sep 14, 2016)

My fingers are crossed and I always carry a tube.Hoping they last as I like the ride.


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## Blue CheeseHead (Jul 14, 2008)

I switched from Conti GP4000S a couple years ago to tubeless. I have yet to try the Schwalbe. I have tried Hutchenson Fusion 2, 3 and now 5 as well as Specialized S-Works. The Fusion 5's seem to be working well and will probably stick with them.. I found the Specialized to ride very nicely, but not durable at all.

On a couple occasions I have had to install a tube roadside. It was not a big deal.


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## Global1 (Sep 14, 2016)

If these fail I will try the fusion 5 next. Would have tried them this time but did not read about them till after purchasing the pro-one's


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## chandne (Jan 22, 2004)

I have mostly used the Contis but not right now. As of a month ago, I replaced them with the Michelin Service Course Pro 4. The Michelins are a bit tougher but roll slightly slower. The Contis rolled well but are a bit of a harsh ride. The Schwalbe Pro Ones roll the fastest and have the best ride quality by far...way smoother than the Contis. I only use butyl tubes because I hear that latex tubes puncture easier...not sure if true. 

I am also running IRX Pro RBCC tubeless..also very nice but not as fast as the Schwalbes...they seem tougher though. I like road tubeless so far.


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## upstateSC-rider (Aug 21, 2004)

I have a 25c Pro One on the rear of a Belgium + wheel and the ride is great, roll very fast too.
I also had one on the rear of a Boyd 44 carbon clincher and flatted to the point where it wouldn't seal and had to tube it, didn't seem too bad of a puncture either so now I have mixed feelings about the Pro One's.



Blue CheeseHead said:


> I switched from Conti GP4000S a couple years ago to tubeless. I have yet to try the Schwalbe. I have tried Hutchenson Fusion 2, 3 and now 5 as well as Specialized S-Works. The Fusion 5's seem to be working well and will probably stick with them.. I found the Specialized to ride very nicely, but not durable at all.
> 
> On a couple occasions I have had to install a tube roadside. It was not a big deal.


Hutchinson's have been in the tubeless game a long time, maybe even the longest, and think I'll switch back to them when I need new TL tires. Still using some Intensive 3's on an old front wheel, no flats ever and haven't added sealant in at least 3 years.


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## MercRidnMike (Dec 19, 2006)

Chadne, surprisingly, my experience has been the opposite. Although latex requires more maintenance (i.e. pumping up daily / before each ride), I have actually had fewer flats running latex. Could be that I'm a bigger rider usually running higher pressures and the latex helps things "give" a bit more and take what might have been a puncture and turn it into a minor nick in the tread instead. As in all things, YMMV.

I'm like others here....I run tubeless off-road, but tubed on. As for GP4KII vs. Pro Ones, I can't add much. I preferred the Schwalbes in the previous generation, but haven't worn them out enough to try the new ones yet.


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## Wines of WA (Jan 10, 2005)

Global1 said:


> I have run conti 4000 25"s, Schwalbe pro-one 28"s and pro-one 25"s on my roval 21 id clx 32"s. The pro-one tubeless 25"s have a great ride quality and roll smoking fast. Had a rear flat after first 150 miles and it sealed back up but left a mess. I really like the tire"s and hope I don't have another puncture currently about 300 miles on set. Never had flat on conti's in 3000 miles. Conti's are not as smooth.


I'm using nearly the same tires and configurations. In addition to running tubeless on MTB and CX bikes with great success, I use Pro One 28c tubeless on my "rain bike" (Pacific Northwest niche bike) on wide 2016 Boyd AltaVista wheels. It's been great including all of last winter without a flat or really even a significant cut, which is very surprising. They also hold air an amazingly long time without needing to be topped up and are super plush at 60-70 psi. 

But I still use GP 4000SII on my dry days road bikes. Honestly, the reason is that they are great and there is no reason to switch in addition to the fact that I'd need to replace my Bora One wheels which I like too much to replace right now.


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## jeremy_s (May 6, 2015)

For me tubeless on road isnt that great. I love it for mtb but with the smaller tires and the mess I just didnt like it. For road riding I like either Vittoria Open Corsa or GP4000 II with latex tubes. Yes you have to air them up every morning but in all the years of cycling I cant remember not checking my tires every morning anyway so no difference there. The difference for me was in ride quality and flat resistance. Like the poster a few up from me said, I went from a couple of flats every 1000 miles to none since June, I can't ask for more improvement. Ride quality was noticeable as well. I've been through three wheelsets on my current bike and noticed less different between them and stock than I do in latex and butyl. They do cost more but with the complete lack of flats, I'll gladly pay more.


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## Marcassin (Oct 28, 2016)

Interesting thread!

To be honest I do think the GP4000SII is the best all rounder there is when it comes to clincher. It's so consistent and safe and it works on many types of tarmac -North America, Western Europe, Australia, New-Zealand-.

But if you used tubulars at some point in your life, you know there is something missing when you're on a clincher. I'm not trying to start a debate lads, but it ain't the same ride quality between those two. Clinchers are way easier to use but I do think Tubeless fills the void between those two.

I've done the last 600ish miles on tubeless. My setup consists of 33mm high and 28mm wide carbon rims -18.3mm hook to hook- and a pair of Pro One in 25. Each tire weights 260grams. They are way bigger than 25mm :


The tricky part was to find the proper pressure for my 170lbs. Good thing I had a digital gauge for mountain biking. I ended up with 80psi in the front and 84psi in the rear. And what a result it is! The riding quality is next level. Even if the Pro One only last less than 1200 miles I'll keep buying them. It rides like a tubular or better. I'm loving them so far. Maybe I'll change my mind in a couple of months ... but I don't think so. I had my first tubeless UST setup in 99 or 2000, never used a tube on a mtb ever since.

I do think the wide rims and the tubeless make the Pro one even greater. The thread is similar to the Durant Plus I use on my commuting bike. So I guess I already knew the limits of the Pro one on the wet. I'm lucky enough to have the south of France as a playground, not much rain .


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