# merckx buy/burn



## ciclisto (Nov 8, 2005)

Well I won the Merckx I was looking for on ebay paid through paypal, but so far no bike and no seller. I filed a dispute/claim today after 31 days of waiting. It was supposedly insured by paypal up to @ $2,000. I'll see. Anyone ever have to do this and got the money back? Seller has ignored my contact attempts at resolution.....................bummed.


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## zmudshark (Jan 28, 2007)

Not enough information.


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## Kenacycle (May 28, 2006)

I have a friend who got scammed on ebay a few months ago. He had paid for a frameset with paypal and the next day ebay notified him the seller has been removed from ebay. The frameset was over $2000 and he contacted paypal immediately but they didnt' do anything. After many weeks, Paypal only gave him back $300. That so called "$2000 coverage" is total BS. Paypal would do anything to try to weasel out of covering you the full amount. Nonetheless, my friend reported this to his credit card company and they did an investigation. After I think 2 or 3 months his credit card company agreed to take the loss. 

If you had paid by credit card with Paypal for the bike, you better contact them immediately. If you paid with bank transfer or paypal balance, then it will probably be a very very long time before you get your money back; if at all.

Good luck


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## kjmunc (Sep 19, 2005)

Sorry to hear about your troubles......I am personally sending bad juju vibes to that seller on your behalf. Hopefully karma will catch up with that dirtbag eventually! 

Good luck!


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## innergel (Jun 14, 2002)

This story sucks. This scenario goes through my head with every Merckx frame I see on ebay. I hope you get it all resolved.


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## slojoe (Dec 25, 2005)

Can you post a link to the auction so we can have some clues? Seller ID? I've heard of more ppl losing out on PP claims, but I've also heard of ppl recouping all or most of their losses, don't give up. 

As said if you used a credit card let your CC company reimburse you, then they will collect from Paypal. That is why PP tries to discourage your paying w/CC, PP prefers you to use your bank, b/c a bank won't take the $$ back from them the way a good CC company will. Sorry for your troubles, good luck.


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## barry1021 (Nov 27, 2005)

bummer!! post the auction please....

b21


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## ciclisto (Nov 8, 2005)

*update*

I contacted the seller through three different methods and no response and no bike. I called Paypal and they said it would take 10 days and if the seller couldn't satisfy this claim they would refund $1,000 of the $1,055. I took your advice and called my Mastercard and they,after some BS filed a claim but wanted the sellers phone which I can't get but they finally filed it for me, and said it might take a month. So maybe I will be made whole. I went to the site as this seller was selling 4 or 5 other frames and his feedback seems to show the buyers got them including one identical to mine but a size smaller. There was one curious thing all the frames auctions ended at the same minute regardless of when posted. This guy made 5-6000 dollars that day. Can't figure this one out yet. He was very responsive and had lots of sales since '02
with a 100% rating, .............Thanks for advice especially the credit card call; very good, I did get the impression Paypal was a little tight with the refund thing. Let you guys know what happens .......................Item was a NOS '95 Merckx Corsa '01, white,sold December 8th
seller was radmatrose.................Later!


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## barry1021 (Nov 27, 2005)

*I think he's*



ciclisto said:


> I contacted the seller through three different methods and no response and no bike. I called Paypal and they said it would take 10 days and if the seller couldn't satisfy this claim they would refund $1,000 of the $1,055. I took your advice and called my Mastercard and they,after some BS filed a claim but wanted the sellers phone which I can't get but they finally filed it for me, and said it might take a month. So maybe I will be made whole. I went to the site as this seller was selling 4 or 5 other frames and his feedback seems to show the buyers got them including one identical to mine but a size smaller. There was one curious thing all the frames auctions ended at the same minute regardless of when posted. This guy made 5-6000 dollars that day. Can't figure this one out yet. He was very responsive and had lots of sales since '02
> with a 100% rating, .............Thanks for advice especially the credit card call; very good, I did get the impression Paypal was a little tight with the refund thing. Let you guys know what happens .......................Item was a NOS '95 Merckx Corsa '01, white,sold December 8th
> seller was radmatrose.................Later!


legit. That was the auction you outbid me on, I remember now. THis is curious. Doesnt make sense that all the other frames were sent and he is fraudulent on yours

b21


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## slojoe (Dec 25, 2005)

Thanks for giving the seller info. There are several things going on here. He hasn't sold a lot of stuff, comparatively speaking, in his years on ebay. But recently he seems to have fallen into a large stash of top shelf NOS bike frames and he is making a killing on them. So his priority is getting big bucks for pretty stuff. 

He loaded it up around the holidays for top dollar. Yes he sets his auctions to end at the same time, and at an exact hour, to make it easier for last-second sniping, which can increase his profit quite a bit. It costs a little more in seller fees to set the listing time but not much.

He ships worldwide. Of the 10 items he's sold in the last 30 days, he's only received 7 feedback, meaning, possibly, others are also waiting on their goods. Ebay deletes auctions older than 30 days from general searches so we can't tell how many people from your time frame are still waiting. Most of those who have received their goods live in countries other than the U.S. So your box may have been lost, damaged, stolen, held up at customs, in transit between German and American carriers, etc. 

He charges 120 to ship a frame to the US, about twice the going rate, and doesn't say which shipper, although he says it is insured. I would guess that he doesn't have a US-specific shipping account, just goes with the local post and calls it good.

It is strange that he hasn't answered your enquiries, considering his feedback and the insurance he promises to provide. He may be waiting, hoping the box will magically detach itself from wherever it's held up and appear at your door. This can happen. His English isn't perfect but is good enough to understand whatever you've probably told him.

He is also quick to answer feedback. Like, 5 minutes after a buyer leaves him feedback, he'll respond in kind. So he hasn't been away from the computer. I personally don't care for sellers who withhold their feedback on buyers. These sellers are usually retaliatory, i.e. if a buyer leaves negative for a bad experience, the seller will then slam the buyer, even tho the buyer paid on time, etc. This is an intimidation tactic in my experience, but many sellers do it these days, it's become part of the "victorious shopping" experience.

At this point it's anybody's guess whether your frame will turn up, and in what kind of condition. It's a long way across the pond. I think you are wise to cover your bases and start the claims process, as there are time limits for claims. He is certainly not doing his end of the work by either ignoring you or not investigating the carrier at his end. 

You are lucky that PP has offered to cover almost 100% of your winning bid. You will still be out ~170, between the difference and the shipping, sounds like your CC may cover that for you. Only negative I see for you, besides the aggravation, is if you slam him on feedback, which he might deserve...he will probably slam you in retaliation, which you probably don't deserve. 

Other than that now that the holidays are over you can probably find a similar frame, maybe in the states, maybe not NOS, but probably for about half the price, if this deal ends up falling through. Good luck.


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## kjmunc (Sep 19, 2005)

Does anyone else think it's a little fishy that there's been a huge influx of NOS top-end steel frames coming from Germany/Europe recently? I know I've mentioned it here before, but instances like this where a infrequent eBay-er shows up with 10-15 collector quality frames makes me ask questions. 

There are a handful of similar frames on German eBay, but these guys have obviously identified the arbitrage opportunity and know they can sell it for twice the amount in the US. 

The real question is where in the heck are they getting these frames? The quantity of NOS frames for sale over the past year would lead you to believe that someone discovered an entire warehouse full of these frames a la Indiana Jones. Can there REALLY be that many NOS frames just sitting in a closet somewhere??


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## ciclisto (Nov 8, 2005)

*kjmunc*

well in this case the bikes where found in a warehouse in belgium and were saved by a bike shop owner i.e. a little stash for retirement. and I have been told steel holds no interest in europe it is just old bikes they clamour for our Treks.!! grass is always greener. 
Anyway today after filing all the claims the seller tells paypal he shipped it and sent a photo of a DHL label but I ran it through international DHL and they had no record of any shipping from his zip code to mine and none in the system for the last 30 days.
Paypal of course took this item as a reason to close my claim, good thing I did the credit card backup. I called paypal and compliained that a photo of a label means nothing, there was no signature of mine as I required as proof, and no record in DHL so they said they would reopen. They are a piece of work............ If it evers shows I still feel the breach of contract as I paid $100. for priority air 6 days. My credit card will be cancelled as soon as it is credited back to my account and then the paypal account will be closed by me. I am done with this shiite.


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## kjmunc (Sep 19, 2005)

Keep the faith......I shipped a case of Belgian beer home from Germany last month and the tracking number never did show up on the DHL website. I also called DHL several times and they were unable to track it in their system. The package did arrive about a week late and it was beat to h*ll but nothing was broken. 

Hopefully it's just on a slow boat and you'll have your frame in a matter of days! Keep us posted.


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## barry1021 (Nov 27, 2005)

*It is an unusual case*

I thought the guy was legit, but the lack of paper trail is curious. Slojoe's analysis is right on. There are a lot of frames coming over now. You should know that the seller Zairebunia, who has a store, and is selling a lot of top frames, is selling some of Joris' frames. He is the gentleman that has the huge collection of Merckx frames on the sticky thread. I bought the first one in his pictures (with original fork) and also another one on the way. THe first came in a week and he charged $50 shipping, so he has my seal of approval.

b21


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## ciclisto (Nov 8, 2005)

*Resolution*

The frame arrived today from the Post office go figure. I had to pay an additional $68.00 custom charges to get it. They poked a hole in the box and chipped the down tube but it is a beautiful NOS pearl white in my size exactly. I am surprised at the condition given its age it is flawless save the chip, Since in live in San Diego I called Joe Bell and he is going to repair it for me next week. ....................all's well .............photo soon


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## Kenacycle (May 28, 2006)

Congrats and lucky it wasn't a scam afterall. Are you going to contact Paypal and your credit card and tell them it's all good now?


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## ciclisto (Nov 8, 2005)

of course all taken care of , Homeland security sticker on the box and they must have held it and customs..............happy camper now.


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## slojoe (Dec 25, 2005)

*DHL, that explains it*

They can be lackadaisical on stateside bike shipping, no wonder it took so long. Cool that you got it OK. Sent you a pm re. JB paint as I'm in the market myself.


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## cpark (Oct 13, 2004)

ciclisto said:


> The frame arrived today from the Post office go figure. I had to pay an additional $68.00 custom charges to get it. They poked a hole in the box and chipped the down tube but it is a beautiful NOS pearl white in my size exactly. I am surprised at the condition given its age it is flawless save the chip, Since in live in San Diego I called Joe Bell and he is going to repair it for me next week. ....................all's well .............photo soon


I'm thinking that the DHL and USPS are the world wide partners in Germany.
I bought a set of Fulcrum wheelset and an ITM K-Sword from Germany and they were delivered by USPS even though it had a DHL label...
Glad you got the frame though. Post a picture when you are finished putting together.


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## barry1021 (Nov 27, 2005)

*Good for you*



ciclisto said:


> The frame arrived today from the Post office go figure. I had to pay an additional $68.00 custom charges to get it. They poked a hole in the box and chipped the down tube but it is a beautiful NOS pearl white in my size exactly. I am surprised at the condition given its age it is flawless save the chip, Since in live in San Diego I called Joe Bell and he is going to repair it for me next week. ....................all's well .............photo soon


I am also glad my scam radar was still working. As i recall, it's a gorgeous frame; he is back on EBAY with more-a little warning sign that his communication was so bad. As for the chip, maybe you should find someone with a bit more experience than JB   

b21


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## atpjunkie (Mar 23, 2002)

*congrats*



ciclisto said:


> of course all taken care of , Homeland security sticker on the box and they must have held it and customs..............happy camper now.


glad it all worked out. europe can take some time

when you get it built and I get back in the saddle consistently we'll have to go for a Merrckx Spin


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## ciclisto (Nov 8, 2005)

*the end deal*

after finally getting the frame last friday, there was some custom money due and also a small chip on the frame from shipping, which is now at Joe Bell for repair and a clearcoat. When I emailed the seller to inform him I received it and that it had some small damage and a custom charge neither of which I complained about, he without notice put $75.00 in my Paypal account to cover the paint !! unbelievable, anyway he then emailed me and said it was a good faith gesture, so I would be fully content with the beautiful frame. Faith restored .


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## Kenacycle (May 28, 2006)

wow it's rare to see such high integrity from a seller! congrats


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## Guest (Jan 18, 2008)

Good for you.

I am still waiting for the Corsa Extra frame I bought before Christmas ( 12/19).

I know it was over the Christmas / New Year break and that will affect mail delivery times, etc.

But I'm getting impatient.

If it gets here soon I can take my time building it so that it will be ready for riding by the time all of this Freaking ice disappears!


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## ciclisto (Nov 8, 2005)

*toomany*

where is it coming from?


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## Guest (Jan 18, 2008)

ciclisto said:


> where is it coming from?



Deutschland ...............

The mail can take time.

I figured on 4 weeks, which is about now, so I'm getting antsy now.

I think it's cabin fever setting in .........


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## barry1021 (Nov 27, 2005)

*Hmmm*



toomanybikes said:


> Deutschland ...............
> 
> The mail can take time.
> 
> ...


TooFEWBikes???? 

b21


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## Guest (Jan 19, 2008)

barry1021 said:


> TooFEWBikes????
> 
> b21



Don't even joke about it!!

I finally got an answer back from the seller.

Says they shipped to the wrong address and got it delivered back to them, in Stuttgart!!

It has seemingly been sent again, by courier this time.

We'll see how long it takes this time.


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## barry1021 (Nov 27, 2005)

*That's what you get*



toomanybikes said:


> Don't even joke about it!!
> 
> I finally got an answer back from the seller.
> 
> ...


for living in the Middle of Nowhere. Good luck tho!! Sounds like he is honest, anyway....

b21


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## Guest (Jan 22, 2008)

barry1021 said:


> for living in the Middle of Nowhere. Good luck tho!! Sounds like he is honest, anyway....
> 
> b21



I admit to getting more than a little miffed at this point.

I paid for this frame, 5 weeks ago now.

According to the tracking number i was sent this week, the frame is still in Germany.

I am really trying hard to see the silver lining here ( it's cloudy here in the middle of nowhere!)


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## ciclisto (Nov 8, 2005)

*toomany*

i believe you have the same seller as me, guy achim from Stuttgart, it will get to you but plan on five weeks after he sends it and four after it hits frankfurt. Reason is it goes from German DHL to U S post office and they let it sit at customs for weeks also expect to pay 6% duty plus a fee to the US postal guy or they send it back,. be patient I was not.


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## zmudshark (Jan 28, 2007)

Toomanybikes,
Hopefully it will show soon, did you find out what the error was on the first go around? The silver lining is that the weather is too crappy to ride any of your Merckx's there, and you have practically one for each day of the week when the weather finally clears.

In the meantime, you can plan how you are going to build it.

Will it be replacing a team bike? I may have some money in the bike fund soon ;-)


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## Guest (Jan 23, 2008)

Much as it will hurt me, it may replace a 7-11 frame.

I know you are right, I can't ride it here anyway, too much ice, but still - 5 weeks!! Probably 2 more weeks, at least.

The shipper says they sent it to the wrong address!! and it got sent back to them, sheesh..........

Anyway, 

I have some alloy Chorus 10 speed which I was thinking of using, we'll see.

Got some mail today - Thanks very much.


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## zmudshark (Jan 28, 2007)

Cool, keep me in mind!


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## Guest (Jan 25, 2008)

OOoooooohhhh Baaaby ...................


http://forums.roadbikereview.com/showthread.php?p=1378791#post1378791


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## ciclisto (Nov 8, 2005)

*back from joe bell*

Picked up my merckx frame from Joe Bell and the repair is undetectable and the clear coat he put on it plus the removal of shop stickers makes it look like one of his custom paint jobs. I was blown away as at 1 inch you could not see it with magnifying glass, and this on a white pearl . All the orange peel is gone. Photos soon.......................c


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