# Hutchinson Road Tubeless - Sealant or No Sealant



## Jon3234 (Jan 23, 2009)

I have a pair of Fulcrum Racing Zero 2 Way fit and I've got Hutchinson Fusion 2 Tubeless tires on them. 

I initially tried all of hutchinson tubeless sealants and they are terrible. Don't seal and Fast'Air is a mess

I then recently swapped them over to Stan's, which I have in my MTB. I recently had a big gash and Stans wouldn't seal it. (Stans spewed out all over the expensive wheelset, drivetrain, and frame)... So I patched it on the road as I didn't have a tube.

Seems like Stans will work fine with small holes, however I've been thinking about doing without sealant and just putting in a tube when I get flats. Stans can be a mess and doesn't guarantee that I won't get a flat. Not to mention I have to change it out every 4 months. Of course, I do realize one of the benefits of tubeless is using sealant to prevent small punctures.

I guess my question is how many of you are using sealant or going without?


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## Dr_John (Oct 11, 2005)

Your experience is similar to mine. I don't bother with sealant. Most of the flats I get on the road aren't going to seal anyways, so I just tube up. No big deal.


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## Blue CheeseHead (Jul 14, 2008)

I just discussed this today with a friend that runs tubeless. No sealant for him either.


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## jtompilot (Mar 31, 2002)

I use the sealant. No flats or problems. Converted Easton Assent2 with the stans kit.


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## Jon3234 (Jan 23, 2009)

Well at the moment my tires are filled with stans at the moment so I'll continue to update as I get another puncture. The tough thing about tubes are that the tires are extremely difficult to put on... at least the way I'm doing it.


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## Noupy (Aug 25, 2003)

*I use the sealant*

Stan's kit on Topolino CX 2.0 a little over an once of sealant per wheel
1800 km so far .
just love it
Fusion 2 s on the Topo wheels is bliss on the roads we have up here in Quebec


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## dekindy (Jul 7, 2006)

Sealant is not mandatory for road tubeless tires on road tubeless specific rims.

My buddy had a puncture so small that he could keep riding it by airing it up periodically. This is the only flat he has experienced in 2 years using Hutchinson road tubeless tires without sealant. This puncture would probably have been sealed with sealant so he is going to start using sealant in his Shimano 7801SL road tubeless specific rims/Hutchinsion Fusion 2 road tubeless tires. 

I average 2 or less flats per year and IMHO the ones that I experienced prior to using road tubeless tires would have been prevented by road tubeless and some of the flats would have required sealant. Based on my experience I use sealant.

What is the big deal? Stan's sealant is not that expensive, messy, or difficult to install . However using it or not using it is probably no big deal for road tubeless specific rims so I would not sweat the decision too much.


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## preacherman (Jun 4, 2009)

I decided to go with the Hutchinson Fusion 2 tubeless tire/Dura Ace 7850SL combo on a new build that I completed a couple of months ago. I have to say that after about 600 miles I am fairly disappointed and frustrated. The local shop that I bought the tires from said that they had sold "many" of them to customers using the same setup, and that "none" of them were using any sealant, and also that "none" of them were having any issues with air loss. I guess I'm the unlucky one. For the first couple of weeks both tires were loosing about 15 psi per hour of riding without using any sealant. So for long rides I was needing to run them at near max psi to compensate for the loss of pressure. After a couple weeks the rate of air loss was increasing, so I started looking into which sealant has the best reputation. It was at that time that I ran across an article that stated that Shimano would not honor the warranty on their tubeless wheelsets if you used sealant with them. I contacted Shimano and they verified that this is true. So I has the option of either running the tires with sealant to eliminate the air loss and void the warranty on the wheels, or deal with the air loss and go without sealant. I decided to go without the sealant. Last week I ran over a small sharp rock that put about a 2 cm gash in the sidewall of the front tire. I'm not sure, but it seems to me that even if I were running sealant the gash would have been too big for it to seal. On the positive side, the flat occured while crossing a very busy intersection, and it was nice to be able to cross without worrying about the tire coming off the rim. I put a tube in the tire and away I went. A few days after that incident I returned home from a two hour ride to find that the rear tire had lost almost exactly half of its air pressure. So now I have tubes in both of my new tubless tires. 
It seems to me that the only way going tubeless makes sense is if you're going to use an older wheelset and warranty is not an issue. I have no complaints about the quality or ride of the Dura Ace wheels, but the Shimano/Hutchinso combo, on the other hand, seems to be flawed. If the system that they've created relies on sealant in order to be effective, then they sould be willing to extend their warranty to cover the use of sealant.


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## SwiftSolo (Jun 7, 2008)

In the early days I did not run stans on my 7801s. typically, I would lose about 15 lbs of pressure in 24 hours. I now have a set of Mavics that require stans with the fusion 2 tubeless and decided to use it in the 7801's as well (2oz per tire). The 7801s and the mavic now lose about 5 lbs per 24 hours.

More than 5000 miles on fusion 2s till I had my first puncture while riding. Since I was only about 2 miles from the end of the ride I kept going. The Stans spewed out for some time and to my surprise it stopped. Based on the amout of time the stans continued to spray, I was surprised to find that I still had about 45 lbs of pressure in the tire. Made it home without hurting my expensive wheel. In short, it reducing air bleed from good tires and can seal a puncture in some cases.

By the way, changing the stuff every 4 months is overkill. Also, no signs of any corrosion on the old 7801s. I think both of these companies are trying to do a sales job on us.


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## Yoyodene (Feb 23, 2005)

I've also been running the Stans with Fusion 2 on Topolino CX2's. Oh man, the ride is so good. Super smooth but really quick and the grip in the turns.... so confidence inspiring...ahhhhh

Sorry, back to the sealant thing. I've been using the 2 oz of Stans. So far have had two sidewall cuts and one puncture - the Stans was able to seal them and I was able to get home without having to mess with the tire. In one of the sidewall cuts, which was pretty decent sized, I had to lean the bike over to let gravity do the work of getting the sealant to the hole. 

In all cases I have been able to patch the Hutchinson tire [with a regular tube patch] and they are still going strong. My plan is to convert all my tires over to tubeless eventually, I think tubeless is really a better mouse trap.

Just my .02


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## Dr_John (Oct 11, 2005)

> I have no complaints about the quality or ride of the Dura Ace wheels, but the Shimano/Hutchinso combo, on the other hand, seems to be flawed. If the system that they've created relies on sealant in order to be effective, then they sould be willing to extend their warranty to cover the use of sealant.


It doesn't rely on sealant, although if you read the directions, it's recommended. I've never had any problems (5000+ miles tubeless) with them holding air, and without sealant. There's something wrong with your set-up - damaged beads from improper mounting, bad valve stem seal, etc. If you can show there's a problem with the rim, Shimano would replace it under warrranty.


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## dougrocky123 (Apr 12, 2006)

*Shimano Tubeless*

I've got the Shimano/ Fusion setup. I used the Hutch air sealent and it seemed like most of it spritzed out from around the valve as I tried to inject it. Still, I have not had a flat even though I got some deapish cuts on the rear tire. Air loss around 10psi a week.


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## poff (Jul 21, 2007)

I am using stan's sealant in my open pro's. It took a week before they stopped loosing 20psi over 2 nights. Now I do not have to add any air.


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## gthcarolina (Feb 14, 2005)

*Open Pros Question*



poff said:


> I am using stan's sealant in my open pro's. It took a week before they stopped loosing 20psi over 2 nights. Now I do not have to add any air.


Stan says Open Pros are the only rims that may require use of rim strips. I have to sets and I'm thinking of converting to tubeless. Do you use the strips on the OPs or go without?


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## dekindy (Jul 7, 2006)

It is time to get the soapy water out or dunk the wheel in water and find out exactly where the air is leaking and deal with it. Your experience is unusual. Please report back what you find. Good luck.


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## poff (Jul 21, 2007)

Stan's tape over velox. Works well.


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## pmt (Aug 4, 2009)

I usually put in sealant on a new tire install just to help it seal well, and I'll also put it in right before I do a 200k Permanent, but otherwise I don't bother with it. My Fusion2's don't seem to lose much air.

I just love that they are sooooo easy to patch on the side of the road if they puncture.


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## WinstonSmith (Apr 25, 2009)

preacherman said:


> ...
> It seems to me that the only way going tubeless makes sense is if you're going to use an older wheelset and warranty is not an issue. I have no complaints about the quality or ride of the Dura Ace wheels, but the Shimano/Hutchinso combo, on the other hand, seems to be flawed. If the system that they've created relies on sealant in order to be effective, then they sould be willing to extend their warranty to cover the use of sealant.


Have been running the Shimano/Fusion set this year and I really like it. I use about 2oz of Stans per tire just to be safe and get almost no loss of PSI. But the system is designed to work without sealant as well so if you carefully follow the typical tubeless tire installation steps, you should be okay. Use lots of very soapy water, make sure the bead is seated in the middle channel first, etc. Also, once it’s inflated, lay it flat on a pail and cover that side with very soapy water to check if there is any air leakage. Then flip it over and do the other side. 

One possibility is that you have an asymmetrical tire that is having trouble fitting well in the bead hook. Another less likely possibility is that your rim is flawed and has a seam or nick somewhere. If you do the soapy water test described above this should become obvious.

I don’t understand why people are so worried about using sealant in these rims. I am a mountain biker as well and we have been using sealant in tubeless tires with all kinds of rims for years and there have been no significant reports of rim damage due to sealant. I suspect Shimano is telling us not to use sealant just to cover their bases for any product liability suites. They probably do not know if the sealant corrodes or if the sealant does not corrode.


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## preacherman (Jun 4, 2009)

Thanks for the comments and suggestions. It's good to know that others are able to ride without sealant. I'll try the soapy water test and see what I can figure out. First I need to find a new front tire. The only local shop that carries them is out of stock and is asking full retail to order a new one. Can anyone suggest a good online retailer that sells the fusions 2s at a discount? Also, is Stan's the way to go if I do decide to use a sealant?


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## pmt (Aug 4, 2009)

Stan's is certainly the best sealant I've used; better than Tufo or Vittoria Pitstop.

I use a wallpaper tray with soapy water to find leaks, since it's long and thin. They have them at Lowes for a couple bucks.

Did you try patching the damaged tire? A patch kit with vulcanizing glue is perfect for patching them, if you can find a patch big enough to cover the tear. Not sure about two cm though.


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## Jon3234 (Jan 23, 2009)

preacherman said:


> Thanks for the comments and suggestions. It's good to know that others are able to ride without sealant. I'll try the soapy water test and see what I can figure out. First I need to find a new front tire. The only local shop that carries them is out of stock and is asking full retail to order a new one. Can anyone suggest a good online retailer that sells the fusions 2s at a discount? Also, is Stan's the way to go if I do decide to use a sealant?


I have tried Hutchinson's fast'air and proctect'air and neither work... From what I know, Stans is really the only sealant that actually works.

google hutchinson fusion tubeless and there are lots on online dealers that offer it for 55 bucks or so...


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## scubad (Jun 22, 2004)

One question I have is if I put in Stan's sealant in my Fulcrum setup and I decide to go back to regular clincher/tube setup, how easy is it to clean up? 

Also, if you do have a big cut and sealant is spewing out of it, how is it to clean off your frame and components?

I just mounted my tires and took it out for a quick spin around the block. Nice ride and different. I might have too much psi in the tires. How much should I have? 90psi?

Thanks.

ScubaD


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## pmt (Aug 4, 2009)

scubad said:


> One question I have is if I put in Stan's sealant in my Fulcrum setup and I decide to go back to regular clincher/tube setup, how easy is it to clean up?


Easy, wipes right off, if it hasn't already dried up.



scubad said:


> Also, if you do have a big cut and sealant is spewing out of it, how is it to clean off your frame and components?


It just rubs right off and won't damage anything.



scubad said:


> I just mounted my tires and took it out for a quick spin around the block. Nice ride and different. I might have too much psi in the tires. How much should I have? 90psi?


It's going to vary based on your weight and the quality of the roads you're riding on. I've used from 60psi to 110psi, and usually use 90. If the roads are rougher, lower pressures really help you roll smoothly over them, at the slight expense of rolling resistance.


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## Jon3234 (Jan 23, 2009)

scubad said:


> One question I have is if I put in Stan's sealant in my Fulcrum setup and I decide to go back to regular clincher/tube setup, how easy is it to clean up?
> 
> Also, if you do have a big cut and sealant is spewing out of it, how is it to clean off your frame and components?
> 
> ...


I don't think it would be a problem to get off the wheel... Problem is I can't wipe down my bike on the road. Last time I had the stuff spew everywhere, it dried and I spent an hour cleaning what looked like torn condoms off my frame, drivetrain, and brakes.

If you feel comfortable tubing up, you might want to just do that before putting in stans. Or even patching on the road. The tires are super easy to patch. I haven't put a tube in yet, so I don't know how difficult it is... Although the tires aren't easy to put on even without tubes.


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