# Legs turn to Jello



## dayshay (Jun 7, 2006)

experts, please advise...
i have been riding more miles in last 2 months, having built up to 150/160 miles per week for last few weeks to an increase of 200 miles in the last week. i am 40, trying to lose weight (currently 185ish) and 5'8". the problem i am encountering is a complete loss of power in my legs. i did a 2 hour ride (25 miles?) yesterday in the malibu hills (mulholland highway, up and down sycamore canyon, then down mulholland to pch and then up encinal and back to mulholland, with decker in there somewhere too), and the last half hour or so was pure hell. i am drinking plenty of water and ate a bit while riding too, but how do i keep from losing power? this happened 2 months ago too while doing a latigo group ride, i just bonked off the back and it became a pure hell grind. do i need to do these rides over and over to get better or...???


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## iliveonnitro (Feb 19, 2006)

Take 3 easy days. 1-2 off the bike and one averaging 8mph for 45min. You should be good to go after that.


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## latah_M.E. (Sep 3, 2009)

*Been there.*

Three years ago, after returning to cycling after about ten years off, I had a similar problem. 

My problem seems to be related to my blood sugar levels. I am not diabetic and have no health problems but I have to be very careful about what I eat (and when) to keep my blood sugar levels high. When I was younger I would just drink a sugary energy/electrolyte drink to get my blood sugar back up. Now if I take in too much sugar or take it too quickly my blood sugar drops off suddenly and my "legs turn to jello", I have no power and may eventually bonk. This seems to contradict what the supplement makers always tell us.

I have the best luck with the following fueling strategies. (I have tried almost every product out there)
-Water only to drink and solid food that contains fat, protein and carbs (I carry balance bars).This helps avoid the spike and crash.
-Water only to drink and fruit (esp bananas)

I have the worst luck with the following:
-maltodextrin based products in liquid form. Liquids are absorbed most quickly and maltodextrin has a Glycemic Index of 105. All of the supplement peddlers tell you that maltodextrin is a "complex carb" but it is actually mutiple dextrose (corn syrup) molecules joined in a long chain. The government doesn't require manufacturers to call it a sugar because of this long chain even though it has a high "GI" and causes a spike and crash worse than table sugar. The gycemic index of sucrose is 65 and pure glucose (which is actually dextrose) has a gycemic index of 100.

Hammer nutrition has a great website that gives really good information about what to do before you ride and how many calories to consume when you ride. I am unable to use their products but they have an enormous amount of information that will help you, just be very careful about buying anything from them.

If your problem is the same as mine (who knows) you can look up the Glycemic Index of almost any food via the internet and stick with solid, low Gi foods. This strategy has allowed me to keep a steady power output over a 100 mi mountain bike race. I have been working on solving this problem for myself for the last couple years and have been lurking on forums like this ever since reading how other (usually older) athletes have the same problem. I hope this post helps you and others out there.


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## ping771 (Apr 10, 2006)

dayshay said:


> experts, please advise...
> i have been riding more miles in last 2 months, having built up to 150/160 miles per week for last few weeks to an increase of 200 miles in the last week. i am 40, trying to lose weight (currently 185ish) and 5'8". the problem i am encountering is a complete loss of power in my legs. i did a 2 hour ride (25 miles?) yesterday in the malibu hills (mulholland highway, up and down sycamore canyon, then down mulholland to pch and then up encinal and back to mulholland, with decker in there somewhere too), and the last half hour or so was pure hell. i am drinking plenty of water and ate a bit while riding too, but how do i keep from losing power? this happened 2 months ago too while doing a latigo group ride, i just bonked off the back and it became a pure hell grind. do i need to do these rides over and over to get better or...???


Other than telling us that how much you're riding per week, you haven't told us how those miles are broken up in terms of difficulty and intensity, and how many rides you do to get to 200 miles per week.

First off, I would not jump to 200 miles from 150 that quickly. If you've done 150-160 per week for only 3 weeks, I would keep at it for another month. You should break up the week with something like 2 days on the bike, 1 day of rest, etc. One day of riding should be at slower pace and more miles, the other day shorter, but perhaps a bit more intensity. 

Also, do you have a plan for training. Riding 160-200 miles per week without some routine and a prescribed workout per ride will generally build endurance, but not necesarily increase your climbing skills, hard efforts over short intervals, etc.. Eventually you will plateau. But don't fret, 200 miles is a lot for a recreational rider. You may just be fatigued, and not realize it.


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## dayshay (Jun 7, 2006)

I appreciate all of the responses so far. I had only just begun my 200 mile week plan and I’m loosely following the old "Bicycle Road Racing" by Edward Borysewicz (Eddy B.) schedule, which is a 7 day a week plan with easy recovery days on the bike. My goal is basically to lose weight and be able to do the old training rides I used to do as a junior racer many, many years ago. I raced as a junior and sometimes in cat 3 and 2 races too up until I was around 17. I don't want to race again, but would love to be in the kind of shape again. I know, I know that sounds insane at age 40, but here I am. The Eddy B. schedule goes something like this:

*MONDAYS:* Recovery ride, 90 rpm, flat and easy for 20-30 miles
*TUESDAYS:* Eddy B's suggestion: SPEED DAY. 30 miles(+ or -) with 2 or more sprints at max effort for 150-200 meters. What I normally end of doing, since I have no plan on racing, is 20-30 miles of moderate to hard pace with hills involved
*WEDNESDAYS:* longer distance and moderate to hard pace, same distance as Sundays, usually flats 30-45 miles
*THURSDAYS: * Eddy B's suggestion: Intervals and shorter distance ride. What I normally end up doing is so something like Tuesdays, 30 miles + or -
*FRIDAYS:* easy spin day, flats, 30 miles-ish
*SATURDAYS:* Eddy B's suggestion: 20-45 miles with jump sprints of 200-300 meters. I usually end up doing 20-25 mile easy riding with 2 or 3 jumps
*SUNDAYS:* Longer distance and intensity, same distance as Wednesdays. I normally would do 25 to 45 of hills at a good, solid pace for me, which means I go hard but not hard enough to kill myself.

As I said, I loosely followed this schedule for a month or two, riding about 5 days per week, usually taking the Tuesdays and Thursdays off. Before that I had been mountain biking and road biking 3 days/week for few years, mixing it up between the two but never did many miles on the road. I started to get more serious when I decided I needed to lose weight and get into the kind of shape where I could hop on my bike and do a 3 to 5 hour group ride and not get dropped or bonk. I can definitely see improvement, and have dropped about 8 pounds in 6 weeks, but want to lose a lot more. I want to be a good hill climber again. Should I just be doing mountain rides and just concentrate on that? I figured by doing flat rides I would be losing weight and gaining endurance, which would help me in the hills. Anyways, I'm all over the place right now as you can see. My goals: lose weight and be a good hill climber and be 17 again. What's the correct plan? Please advise!


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## spade2you (May 12, 2009)

I'm sure you're drinking enough water, but perhaps look at some sort of Gatorade type drink. Also, what is your cadence doing? I've noticed that a lot of relatively new riders and people who bonk are simply in the wrong gear. Get some sort of heart rate monitor and computer that measures your cadence. 

Riding a lot of miles and trying to lose weight is tricky. If you're restricting carbs, it's hard to have sustainable glycogen stores for longer rides. If you don't supplement enough carbs during the ride, you'll easily bonk. If you don't eat enough of the right stuff after the ride, it takes much longer to recover.


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## GearDaddy (Apr 1, 2004)

It seems like your training plan is oriented towards someone that wants to race crits. Lots of relatively short rides (30 miles or less), flat terrain, mixing intensities and doing intervals. Kind of a blind trained monkey approach. I don't think this fits with goals of losing weight, being a hill climber, and recapturing your youth.

Have some fun. Explore. Forget about measuring your intensity and doing intervals. Go climb the hills. If you want to not bonk on that 3 to 5 hour group ride, then you definitely need to be doing longer rides. I wouldn't ride every day either. I think it's only succeeding in making you tired. Think about things in terms of quality time on the bike instead of just putting in X number of miles.

Ride 2 or 3 times during the week at whatever intensity keeps your motivation level high. If you're run down, take a break for a few days. Do longer rides on the weekend, mountain or road, whichever sounds more enticing for being out there for 3 or 4 hours or more. Mix it up. The key element is that you don't want it to seem like work, and you should be excited to get out for your next ride.


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## dayshay (Jun 7, 2006)

If I want to be a strong hill climber, shouldn't I just be doing a lot of hill climbing? Or will this just build muscle and strength and not address my desire to lose weight? Seems as though everybody I talk to has conflicting advice for me. Ultimately, I would love to be able to do 50 mile + rides through the Malibu mountains without bonking or being dropped by strong riders. I have been doing alot of flats because a Cat 2 racer friend told me that riding the flats helps greatly in hill climbing. Is that because riding the flats helps drop weight, which in turn helps hill climbing ability?
I am not diabetic, but I seem to have the same problem that "latah M.E." (in response above) has in regards to his/our blood sugar levels. When off the bike, I have to watch that I keep myself fed or else I start to lose it if I get too hungry. Maybe I am not eating and drinking enough when riding?? Are two water bottles, a Bonk Bar and 2 Gel Gu's not enough for a 2 hour, 25(ish) mile, 80-100 degree day of hill climbing??? Maybe I need to eat more before the ride? I CAN tell you that when I got back to the car I downed 2 1/2 bottles of Vitamin Water as if I were filling an empty radiator. Wow, I have never been able to down that much, that quick, and would have drank more if I had it available.
In any case, that was 3 days ago when I ran out of leg juice, I took the last two days off and today did a 30 mile, slow and flat day and my legs felt heavier than ever, making a very unpleasant ride. Hopefully tomorrow will start getting back to normal. Funny thing is that I only bonked this bad one other time in recent memory, but it was a ride twice as long...just not sure why I bonked so bad on such a short ride since I have been doing other 25-45 mile hilly rides and been fine.


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## latah_M.E. (Sep 3, 2009)

*The best $17.00 you'll ever spend*

http://www.amazon.com/Hypoglycemia-Dummies-James-Chow-M-D/dp/047012170X/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1252159020&sr=8-1


Its time to start thinking about training your metabolism. Here's the secret, instead of eating frequently to keep your blood sugar up, train your body to control it on its own. For thousands of years our bodies have been able to go an entire day without eating. These days, nobody can make it six hours. It is possible and not that difficult. I have done it.

Oh, yeah. Riding will help, too.


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## WMBigs (Aug 29, 2009)

It sounds like you need a rest day thrown into your week somewhere. On short rides under 25 miles or 2 hours, should be no need to eat. If I am riding for more than 2 1/2 hours, I'll take something along. I don't believe in the high sugar sports drinks and food. Those can be used after your Glycogen stores are used up. Compex carbs are your friend.
To help loose weight, take the long rides- you don't need to go all out the whole time.


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## obiwan kenobi (Dec 14, 2009)

Long slow rides are where you burn the fat.


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## iliveonnitro (Feb 19, 2006)

obiwan kenobi said:


> Long slow rides are where you burn the fat.


But long, fast rides burn more fat.


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## Argentius (Aug 26, 2004)

This.

Thread resurrector?

That "fat burning" zone thing is basically bunk.


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## StillRiding (Sep 16, 2006)

You're trying to ride too hard/too far for your current conditioning. Go shorter, go slower and take a rest day now and then. Build speed and distance slowly.


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