# Power meter or new wheels?



## velorick (Sep 5, 2008)

I am considering whether to buy a power meter or a new set of high end racing wheels. I was wondering if there is any consensus out there on which would be better. I live in a mountainous area with lots of climbing in my races and I have a heavy set of old Carbon Cosmics that I race. I would probably lose about 600-700 grams with a new set of wheels. On the other hand, I might make get considerably more fit with a power meter and not need the extra weight advantage of lighter wheels. Any advice? Any other threads on here discussing these issues? Thanks.


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## Shaggybx (Feb 2, 2008)

Powermeter for sure.:thumbsup:


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## tethernaut (Dec 11, 2008)

What's your primary objective? Immediate bump in your race performance, or more gradual but potentially larger improvement in performance? Therein lies your answer.


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## spade2you (May 12, 2009)

If you can save 600-700g and you're actively racing, I'd go with the wheels. I'd eventually like to get a PM, but my training methods are a little more old fasioned and still improving.


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## function (Jun 20, 2008)

How closely are you losing the climbing races? For me, even 700grams wouldn't make a difference, i routinely switch between heavier aerodynamic wheels and lighter box sections.


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## heathb (Nov 1, 2008)

I'd go with the wheels. 

Will the power meter make you stronger? 

While I think a goal of gaining power is a good one, ultimately it's going to be a smart move to progress very slowly with that, and of course most people with a few years of hard training and racing hit their genetic peak. You know if you're good or not, if you really good, get the power meter, if you're struggling forget it.

For me the less gadgets and gizmos on the bike the better, strip it down and enjoy your race.


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## function (Jun 20, 2008)

With the proper direction the power meter can make you stronger. Fancy light wheels are some of the biggest and useless gizmos to get for a bike... If you want to strip things down, don't get anything at all.


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## muscleendurance (Jan 11, 2009)

function said:


> With the proper <del>direction</del> _Genes_ the power meter can make you stronger..


Fixed that one!


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## heathb (Nov 1, 2008)

function said:


> With the proper direction the power meter can make you stronger. Fancy light wheels are some of the biggest and useless gizmos to get for a bike... If you want to strip things down, don't get anything at all.


I agree about the fancy wheels. I don't use them anymore, too many problems. I usually race on OP/DA DT revs 32 3x rear and 28R front. Basic and can be had for $400.

I'm not sure that the power meter makes a person stronger, feedback of course, but if a person is at their limit already it ain't going to make you stronger. 

You can't continuesly gain strength, at some point the max will be reached and the powermeter will be of no use. 

Thus the extra set of wheels, which might come in handy at some point.

In 20 years will we be laughing at all the people that religiously followed their powermeters when something better comes along.


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## heathb (Nov 1, 2008)

muscleendurance said:


> Fixed that one!


Thank you. 

For me I'm already at my limit of being able to take anymore pain. I spend enough time doing this. 

I've reached my limit at 35 and realize that my best TT was 5 years ago, a powermeter isn't going to change that no matter how much I want it to.


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## iliveonnitro (Feb 19, 2006)

Power meters don't make you stronger. Following a training program that incorporates the power meter makes your strong. More-so than wheels ever could.

Proper training with power > proper training program > training program > nice set of race wheels

Never fails. Unless you're talking about the Mavic R-SYS...then, well...


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## Alex_Simmons/RST (Jan 12, 2008)

heathb said:


> Thank you.
> 
> For me I'm already at my limit of being able to take anymore pain. I spend enough time doing this.
> 
> I've reached my limit at 35 and realize that my best TT was 5 years ago, a powermeter isn't going to change that no matter how much I want it to.


Training with power saw my performances improve significantly well into my 40s over what I could do when I was 35.

As for those that say a power meter won't make you stronger, that's correct, it's not a bolt on motor. But neither will wheels. It's training that's makes us fitter. Wheels won't help one train well but a power meter armed with some knowledge about how to use it properly sure can.


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## heathb (Nov 1, 2008)

Alex_Simmons/RST said:


> Training with power saw my performances improve significantly well into my 40s over what I could do when I was 35.
> 
> It's training that's makes us fitter. Wheels won't help one train well but a power meter armed with some knowledge about how to use it properly sure can.


The problem was at 30 I could recover a lot faster than I can now. I never did less than 60-100 miles a day back then every day, it felt like nothing to go as hard as possible. 

Now that I'm going on 36 it doesn't feel the same, not really motivation either, my diet and workout routine are more methodical then its ever been. I simply feel like I trash myself into the ground when I attempt to match what I was doing back in my twenties and very early thirties. Perhaps the testosterone is dropping, I don't know.


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## aussiebullet (Sep 26, 2005)

l doubt that anyone who has posted in this thread is at or will ever be at their genetic limits,
it takes years if not a decade or more of consistant training and dedication avoiding sickness and injury etc, etc.
If had listened to the meethead remarks and advice from posters from various forums around the net implying that if your no good now or after racing hard for 5 years your not improving you are at your limits than l would not have improved my tt power by almost 30% in the last 2 years.
l took the old increase the milage advice (25hs/wk), that didn't do much for racing succsess, 
l tried hill repeats & that didn,t turn me into a racing god, 
l prefered long climbs and that def helped my climbing to a degree but not the imrovement l was looking for, 
So l was sure l had reached my limits after nearly 5 yrs of beating myself up on the old steed.
THEN... yep you guessed it l bought a pm, and it didn't turn me into a moster in 3 mths or six months,
hell even after 9mths l still wasn't dropping all the best climbers BUT l was improving month by month, some times l can go 6 wks without any noticable gains but l know what l have to do to force addaption and just stay consistant and have faith in the people that have guided me over the last couple of years,
then when you least expect it BAMM you see a noticeable and reapeatable gain and all is good again.
Training with power teaches me so much about my performance and how to perform at levels well beyond what l could have ever imagined or done without it,
it is true that some people adapt to training stresses alot faster than others but consistancy is the key and not for a month or 2 or 3 months of hard training but for as long as it takes to get to a level that you are happy with weather or not your a pro or a w/end warrior,
seriuosly it takes huge chunks of time at levels hard enough that cause residual fatigue to hang around for days and trying to increase things too fast will put you in a hole that will take weeks or in some cases months to get out of, 
thats where WKO comes into it. 
lt is a pm's best freind as well as knowledge from experts; not forum junkies who know someone who knows someone who has a pm or has used one for only 6-12mths and didn't start winning grand tours.
l'm still learning things about myself and what style of training works well for me including: cadence at different intensitys, attacking in races/how long to go into the red and how much training at that level will help me attack over an over again befor it is counter productive and still allow me to recover enough during the race to finish well, and this weeks rest period it was a trial run for peaking on race day in a couple months needless to say l broke several pb's on todays trial session.
l doubt l will ever reach my genetic limits as l don't have the time to train and rest enough
but l do know that over the next decade l will continue to improve sustainable power


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## Alex_Simmons/RST (Jan 12, 2008)

aussiebullet said:


> l doubt that anyone who has posted in this thread is at or will ever be at their genetic limits,....


:thumbsup:


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## heathb (Nov 1, 2008)

That all depends when you started if it takes a decade to achieve your genetic potiential. 

Father time will catch up with everyone. 

Can we say that Mario Cipollini shouldn't have retired because he couldn't have possibly hit his true genetic potiential. 

How about the Robbie McEwen, he's having a bit of a time recapturing his former glory. 

I mean if one is just to pay attention to the power meter than all they should have to do is plug it in and keep going until they hit those numbers right. After all that's what training is all about isn't it?

At a certain point a person is going to reach their peak, that peak may not be the true peak that they were capable of, but it's still a peak and then we start to slide gradually into decline. 

What's going to happen to those greats freakin out that they can't hit their old wattage anymore. Should someone just tell them to man it up and just do it. Some of those guys looked like they were hurting pretty bad towards the end of their careers. There efforts were diminishing and it was hurting like hell to grow older.

This is the natural order of things, this is why you don't see heavy weight boxers in the ring using a walker and wearing a pair of diapers. You get old, feeble and die. Of course now that everyone has a power meter maybe they won't have to worry about that anymore.


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## Undecided (Apr 2, 2007)

heathb said:


> That all depends when you started if it takes a decade to achieve your genetic potiential.
> 
> Father time will catch up with everyone.
> 
> ...


Maybe we should ask the original poster: Have you previously won the world championship and/or numerous one-day races and flatter stages in the grand tours? If so, you may have come quite close to your full potential using your existing training methods and very well may benefit more from the wheels. Even, then, you may find success as a rouleur once your sprint begins to fade, although it will likely require a different training focus.

I'm not sure how the effects of aging came into the discussion, but, as Alex said, smart training can reveal that one's potential (even into the masters or veteran racing years) has not been reached or is greater than one believed. Always riding 60 or 100 miles as hard as possible may not be the smartest training.


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## function (Jun 20, 2008)

muscleendurance said:


> Fixed that one!


Are you actually serious?


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## stevesbike (Jun 3, 2002)

every thread with 'powermeter' gets hijacked this way. How about people without powermeters not chime in? If you don't have one, don't know the details of the software analysis, etc., then your opinion is uninformed - and the whole 'if you have the genes it doesn't matter how you train' line is 1) tired, 2) ignorant as hell. After all, why would pros (who presumably have the genes) almost all use them?


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## Alex_Simmons/RST (Jan 12, 2008)

heathb said:


> That all depends when you started if it takes a decade to achieve your genetic potiential.
> 
> Father time will catch up with everyone.
> 
> ...


Well for someone like you, you know, a glass half full kind of guy  , then a power meter would accurately track your decline.  

Maybe we should just all shoot ourselves when we hit 35.

However, for me and my clients it's about trying to be the best rider they can be, given their individual personal circumstances, age, previous riding history etc etc. Not everyone is going to ride Pro. Doesn't diminish their desire to attain a higher performance level and give it their best though.


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## Alex_Simmons/RST (Jan 12, 2008)

stevesbike said:


> every thread with 'powermeter' gets hijacked this way. How about people without powermeters not chime in? If you don't have one, don't know the details of the software analysis, etc., then your opinion is uninformed - and the whole 'if you have the genes it doesn't matter how you train' line is 1) tired, 2) ignorant as hell. After all, why would pros (who presumably have the genes) almost all use them?


While I understand your frustration, there is no doubt that picking your parents wisely is still a factor when it comes to elite level performance but it is not _just _about genetic potential. This isn't an either/or matter.

I never really suggest the line about "all the Pros do" because the Pros do some dumb things too


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## function (Jun 20, 2008)

While indeed many will never reach pro or elite, saying "i'm never going to be pro" is a guaranteed way to remain mediocre for the rest of your life. If you're fine with that that's ok. I want to be as strong as i can possibly be and push myself and had no idea i'd ever be at my current power levels when i first started off. At some point i was convinced that i'll always be slower than some of my (slightly overweight) recreational riding partners. I can now put some hurt on cat 1/2s. I'll never underestimate myself again, mediocre sucks.


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## Shaggybx (Feb 2, 2008)

I've been training with power for almost a year now,it's helped me tremendously.
I don't even wear my hr strap anymore.Another thing it's done for me is,it's made it more exciting.It's nice to download your ride and see yourself improving.I look forward to riding even more with that thing.
I'm on a tight schedule with work,no time to waste.You can do sweet spot,VO2 stuff etc without wasting time and guessing.As far as I'm concerned, it's the best investment you'll ever make.
Just my 2 cents


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## heathb (Nov 1, 2008)

What's a quality unit you can buy at an affordable price and is easy to install.


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## Borti (Aug 1, 2008)

aussiebullet said:


> l doubt that anyone who has posted in this thread is at or will ever be at their genetic limits,
> it takes years if not a decade or more of consistant training and dedication avoiding sickness and injury etc, etc.
> If had listened to the meethead remarks and advice from posters from various forums around the net implying that if your no good now or after racing hard for 5 years your not improving you are at your limits than l would not have improved my tt power by almost 30% in the last 2 years.
> l took the old increase the milage advice (25hs/wk), that didn't do much for racing succsess,
> ...


One of the best posts I have ever seen on a forum. Period.


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## jac44 (Feb 11, 2005)

function said:


> While indeed many will never reach pro or elite, saying "i'm never going to be pro" is a guaranteed way to remain mediocre for the rest of your life. If you're fine with that that's ok. I want to be as strong as i can possibly be and push myself and had no idea i'd ever be at my current power levels when i first started off. At some point i was convinced that i'll always be slower than some of my (slightly overweight) recreational riding partners. I can now put some hurt on cat 1/2s. I'll never underestimate myself again, mediocre sucks.


Right on Function. I'm 48, quit smoking 5 years ago, lost over 30 lbs. and starting to kick other riders as---
A PM played a major role in this journey that is far from over. Wheel's are without a doubt secondary but they do help. 

J


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## Undecided (Apr 2, 2007)

heathb said:


> What's a quality unit you can buy at an affordable price and is easy to install.


"Affordable" varies greatly from person to person, but given that the discussion started out as a comparison to "high end racing wheels", I would nominate just about any wireless PowerTap. Even the SL+ at full retail would be several hundred dollars cheaper than a pair of Zipp 404s at full retail. eBay seems to offer up some lower prices, and many online stores may as well. 

It's basically as easy to install as changing a wheel and zip-tying the computer bracket to the handlebars. I've had an older version for about two years, and other than improving on the factory water-proofing with some liquid gasket, I haven't had any quality issues. 

SRM also seems like a great unit to me, but more expensive and a bit more difficult to install (although still pretty easy).


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## function (Jun 20, 2008)

Competitive cyclist still has a powertap + wheel + cpu, everything to get you started, for just under $659, probably the best deal out there.

http://www.competitivecyclist.com/road-bikes/product-accessories/2009-cycleops-power-tap-compdt-rr-1.1-complete-wheel-5905.44.1.html


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