# 3T Palladio Seatpost



## ckc527 (Oct 29, 2012)

Hi,

Anyone here have experience with the 3T Palladio seatpost?

I need help troubleshooting why I'm getting saddle movement.

I recently purchased a Cervelo R5 VWD that came with the Palladio seatpost. I ordered the Palladio difflock mechanism for oval rails so that I can install a new Fizik Antares 00 saddle. When I got everything installed, I noticed some saddle movement. Upon closer inspection, it appears there are vertical & horizontal movement/play between the outer spline and head of seatpost. How do I get rid of this movement? Was I suppose to use some type of assembly compound? I didn't see it in the product manual.

3T Cycling - PALLADIO DIFFLOCK MECHANISM WITH OVAL RAILS

http://www.3tcycling.com/f/palladio.pdf

Thanks,
ckc


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## skepticman (Dec 25, 2005)

I have the Palladio with the regular small/round clamp on one bike. There is no detectable movement.


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## ckc527 (Oct 29, 2012)

Looks like the movement in the saddle has nothing to do with the outer spline play. It's the over sized rails on the Fizik Antares 00 that's preventing the end caps (clamps) to be tighten down all the way at 5nm torque. The end caps say max torque of 5nm so I'm afraid to tighten any further but the saddle manual says the clamp force of 18nm. So is it safe to go over 5nm then ?

Thanks,
ckc


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## UrbanPrimitive (Jun 14, 2009)

The general rule of thumb is torque to the lowest specification. The saddle rails can tolerate up to 18nM of torque. That has nothing to do with the seat post clamp. Rather, it indicates that at 19nM or torque you can expect damage to the saddle rails. Always respect the weakest link in the chain. The lowest torque value in an assembly is the most important one.


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## ckc527 (Oct 29, 2012)

Hi UrbanPrimitive,

Any suggestion on what I should do then? The end caps say 5nm max and at that rating, the end caps are still not far in enough to make a secure hold. I think the protective wrap on the carbon rails is what's making this tough. Should I remove the wrap?

Thanks,
Peter


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## dualpivot (Oct 25, 2009)

ckc527 said:


> Hi UrbanPrimitive,
> 
> Any suggestion on what I should do then? The end caps say 5nm max and at that rating, the end caps are still not far in enough to make a secure hold. I think the protective wrap on the carbon rails is what's making this tough. Should I remove the wrap?
> 
> ...


Suggestion: sell or return the Antares 00, get an Antares K.ium with standard sized rails, and go ride the bike. 54g difference in weight. That's the equivalent of 1.8 oz of water in your water bottle.


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## UrbanPrimitive (Jun 14, 2009)

I'm trying to figure out if that saddle has oval rails. If it does that might be your problem, since the Palladio grips the rails by applying lateral pressure rather than vertical pressure. 

Does the clamp make contact with the rails all the way around, or are there just a couple points of contact?

A sketchy cludge kind of fix could be to wrap a layer of hockey tape on the rails where they make contact with the seat post clamp.

Honestly before tearing my hair out about this too much I'd take the whole dang thing to your mechanic. I suspect something is going on here that is either escaping your attention or is too subtle to easily communicate.


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## ckc527 (Oct 29, 2012)

Hi UrbanPrimitive,

Yes, the Fizik Antares 00 has oval carbon rails (7x9mm). The carbon rails also have a mesh like wrap around it which I think makes it even bigger than 7x9mm. You are right, the Palladio end caps applies lateral pressure towards the difflock mechanism with the rails in between. It's kind of hard to see if the clamp makes a full oval contact with the rails - i'll check again tonight. I'm guessing it is not and it's not allowing the clamp to fully close which is why the saddle is still loose when the torque is already at 5nm. I tried to install the end caps without the saddle and at 5nm the clamp is solid against the seatpost head with no movement. 

I also emailed 3T to see what size oval rails their end cap is suppose to support but haven't heard back. 

Thanks,
ckc


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## ewitz (Sep 11, 2002)

As per their website:

Note: Standard PALLADIO fits only saddles with 7-mm ∅ round-section rails. Saddles with oval rails require oval-rail end caps (available as a 3T accessory).


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## ckc527 (Oct 29, 2012)

I already bought the difflock mechanism with oval rails which also includes the oval end caps but it still won't fit the Antares 00 saddle.


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## ckc527 (Oct 29, 2012)

UrbanPrimitive said:


> A sketchy cludge kind of fix could be to wrap a layer of hockey tape on the rails where they make contact with the seat post clamp.


Took your idea and wrapped a layer of electrical tape around the oval rails, voila! Saddle is now solid, no more movement. Thanks!

ckc


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## echo7 (Sep 7, 2010)

ckc527 said:


> Took your idea and wrapped a layer of electrical tape around the oval rails, voila! Saddle is now solid, no more movement. Thanks!
> 
> ckc


hmmm with the moisture and humidty while riding, the electrical tape may not last long..


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## ckc527 (Oct 29, 2012)

echo7 said:


> hmmm with the moisture and humidty while riding, the electrical tape may not last long..


I'll have to try a diff type of tape if/when the saddle start to move OR figure out exactly what is wrong. Is it the Palladio end cap being too big or is it the Antares 00 carbon rails not being a perfect oval shape.

ckc


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## VKW (Jul 26, 2009)

Not all oval rails are the same. I know Trek makes a 7x9 and a 7x10 seat post clamp. If your Palladio end cap is 7x10, it may be a reason why the 7x9 antares rails don't fit well.


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## ckc527 (Oct 29, 2012)

VKW said:


> Not all oval rails are the same. I know Trek makes a 7x9 and a 7x10 seat post clamp. If your Palladio end cap is 7x10, it may be a reason why the 7x9 antares rails don't fit well.


Hi VKW, 

Unfortunately 3T's website don't have any specification on the oval end caps. They also don't tell people that the entire difflock mechanism for oval rail support is needed.
The oval end caps alone won't be enough for people trying to install saddle with oval rails. I've sent multiple inqueries to 3T without success. Such a shame.

You're probably right about the Palladio oval clamps being bigger than 7x9. They need to provide better documentation.

http://www.3tcycling.com/small-parts

ckc


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## Maavalous (Jul 11, 2010)

Well, the 3T system is a great example of a fantastic idea and great engineering meeting up with reality... and losing. Fundamentally, the tolerance on the internal gears for setting angles is too loose (at least 1/8 degree play) and the cups are not machined correctly to hold the seat rails. Another case of "it looks great on paper"... sigh.
Here's what I had to do to make the Palladio Pro version work with a standard 7mm round rail saddle... it ain't pretty and not for the anti-tinkerer.

Getting it Level:
You have to set it one "notch" nose down from level if you want to end up near level when done. Will still be 1/8 degree nose down but that's better than nose up. There is no middle ground.
Creaking:
I used a copious amount of grease on all the splines of both gear units and grease around the lip where the cups meet the “clamp” area.
Holding the Saddle:
I had to remove a few microns of metal from the inside edge of both cups. 3 back/forth scrubs on 80 grit sandpaper did the trick. Then I had to rough up all the points where the rails contact the cups and prongs. And, for good measure, roughed up the saddle rails as well.
Then, I had to torque it to 6 Nm and use LocTite on the bolts.

So, end of the day… it works fine now. But this is NOT what I expected from an expensive seatpost. “Italian Design” is not necessarily the boast they think it is. If you don’t mind re-engineering something then go for it. Frankly, I enjoyed spending a rainy afternoon making it work… I would have been pissed if after all that it didn’t. 

If you want it to work as advertised… sorry, 3T is a FAIL.


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## bosshmic (Nov 6, 2013)

As i am currently struggeling with the same issue on the combination of 3t IONIC with an Fizik Antares 00 Saddle, is it sufficient to exchange the outer caps or do i need the entire clamp mechanism?
I already have recieved the outer caps but the installation doesnt realy fix the saddle, meaning that it is fixed forth/back but has a bit of left/right movement as the caps are to short to fix the against that type of movement...
what to do?


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## Maavalous (Jul 11, 2010)

bosshmic said:


> As i am currently struggeling with the same issue on the combination of 3t IONIC with an Fizik Antares 00 Saddle, is it sufficient to exchange the outer caps or do i need the entire clamp mechanism?
> I already have recieved the outer caps but the installation doesnt realy fix the saddle, meaning that it is fixed forth/back but has a bit of left/right movement as the caps are to short to fix the against that type of movement...
> what to do?


Sigh... you have yet another issue. I assume you have received the oval cups for carbon rails not the round for metal rails. This is the first step and sounds like you have. 
The next issue, lateral movement, is a challenge you are sort of stuck with. If you have eliminated fore/back slippage and have it leveled to your desired fit, that's probably as good as it gets. You can NOT over torque enough on the carbon rails of that model Fizik saddle and not risk compression fracture of the carbon.
One possibility is to find a nylon flat washer similar to those used to correct for BB30 bottom brackets (another issue I have resolved for a lot of folks) and fit that in on one/both sides of the splines before inserting the saddle and cups. Not impossible, but a bit of MacGyvering to find the right diameter/thickness. I do NOT recommend a metal washer for this. If you are really patient and crafty, you can get sheet nylon and make your own... done that, threw a LOT of pieces away before I got it right.

BTW for those struggling... I have successfully over-torqued the cups onto metal rails at 7nm with no issues.

Honestly, 3T has a GREAT design... they just can't seem to get the manufacturing right. These are nothing more than tolerance issues with the factory that actually produces the parts.
I hope they are listening... I did contact them directly with a number of fixes and suggestions. It always makes me sad when a fantastic design is damaged by a bad execution team


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## cru_jones (Nov 29, 2009)

Maavalous said:


> The next issue, lateral movement, is a challenge you are sort of stuck with. If you have eliminated fore/back slippage and have it leveled to your desired fit, that's probably as good as it gets. You can NOT over torque enough on the carbon rails of that model Fizik saddle and not risk compression fracture of the carbon.
> One possibility is to find a nylon flat washer similar to those used to correct for BB30 bottom brackets (another issue I have resolved for a lot of folks) and fit that in on one/both sides of the splines before inserting the saddle and cups. Not impossible, but a bit of MacGyvering to find the right diameter/thickness. I do NOT recommend a metal washer for this. If you are really patient and crafty, you can get sheet nylon and make your own... done that, threw a LOT of pieces away before I got it right.
> 
> BTW for those struggling... I have successfully over-torqued the cups onto metal rails at 7nm with no issues.
> ...


I know the sin of resurrecting an old thread, but I figured adding to this one is better than starting a new one, for anyone else searching.

I picked up an Ionic recently and the same problem of lateral movement within the diff lock mechanism itself. This was round clamps on a round saddle (two different saddles I tried), and both had the same issue. You couldn't tighten the side bolts enough to remove the side to side play, but I put a clear plastic BB30 washer and it took it out.

However I wasn't satisfied with that, so I'm returning it. I contacted 3T and did confirm that there was a tolerance issue with that post. Unfortunately a really wanted to run this post. I use a matching stem, and love the look but I'm going to go back to a Thomson like I should have done to begin with. 

I'm not going to try the Stylus. I had a Dorico and the side clamps were sharp, stuck out to far and chaffed by bibs...not going to spend the money on a Stylus since I can't confirm that won't be the same problem.


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