# The fastest 2013/14 Aero bike under $7000



## Bridgey (Mar 26, 2003)

I'm in the hunt for an aero bike at the end of the year. In short I'm after a free 10 to 40W when not drafting. So far I have narrowed my choices to the Giant Propel (is it really the fastest?), 
2014 model of Felt AR.

I've bi-passed Cervelo S5 based on Giant's data it suggests it isn't as fast as others in cross winds, etc. 

Heard Pinarello may be bringing out an aero bike sooner or later. I only have $7000 to spend though. I'm open to any other model, even from smaller companies that you think will out perform these. I know Wellier just brought out an aero bike, etc. 

Please don't go into train harder, lose weight, get a coach, etc. I am aware of all this and already train hard. I currently ride a Pinarello Dogma, but want the fastest aero bike my $7000 can afford.


----------



## SauronHimself (Nov 21, 2012)

You ONLY have $7000 to spend? As they say in the Team Fortress 2 community, you're so poor and Irish.


----------



## Harley-Dale (Sep 2, 2011)

FWIW, I drool over the AR. While the price is in reach, I'm too practical and physiogically challenged to warrant that much coin for a ride. Unless its a Harley, of course. lol

Ride a few if you can find them in a shop. But the AR looks really sweet to me.


----------



## looigi (Nov 24, 2010)

How about going to a wind tunnel and working on your body position? Could make more diff than an aero road frame.


----------



## demonrider (Jul 18, 2012)

Fastest according to whom... Giant says their new bike is the only aero bike worth buying, a week later, Felt releases the AR and makes essentially the same world shattering claims about their latest and greatest. Cervelo was clamouring about the S5 last year after Millar got them a stage win; and when Pinarello releases an aero machine, the whole circus is going to begin all over again with claims and counter claims all aimed to do one thing, sell bikes to people such as you.

It all comes down to which one of those you can test ride and get a good deal on.


----------



## woodys737 (Dec 31, 2005)

One practical aspect about the Felt AR I like is that you can change the STA by reversing the post. Through on some clip ons and you really have two bikes in one.


----------



## ewitz (Sep 11, 2002)

woodys737 said:


> One practical aspect about the Felt AR I like is that you can change the STA by reversing the post. Through on some clip ons and you really have two bikes in one.


Same with the Venge but does it really matter?


----------



## woodys737 (Dec 31, 2005)

ewitz said:


> Same with the Venge but does it really matter?


I guess if you want to use the bike for TT's and don't have or can't afford a dedicated TT bike then yes. You can change STA from 72.5 to 78.5 (for a size 51). Impossible to get fwd enough with a STA of around 73 to get flat but with 78 you have a fighting chance. That's my take on it anyways.


----------



## Warpdatframe (Dec 9, 2012)

Do you already have aero wheels? If you don't you should probably get a bike around $4500-$5000 and then buy a set of enve or zipps. For the bike my vote would probably go to a giant or bmc.


----------



## velodog (Sep 26, 2007)

This one


----------



## PlatyPius (Feb 1, 2009)

Collect all of the bikes you're considering and put them in rear wheel stands with the front wheels exactly even. Yell "Go!" Whichever bike crosses the line first is the fastest.

(ie: bikes are not fast, nor can they ever be.)


----------



## tvad (Aug 31, 2003)

looigi said:


> How about going to a wind tunnel and working on your body position? Could make more diff than an aero road frame.


looigi has is right.

To your specific question, there is no best Aero frame. If there was a best Aero frame, every pro race would be won with the same frame, but they aren't.


----------



## Jay Strongbow (May 8, 2010)

Bridgey said:


> I'm in the hunt for an aero bike at the end of the year. In short *I'm after a free 10 to 40W when not drafting*. So far I have narrowed my choices to the Giant Propel (is it really the fastest?),
> 2014 model of Felt AR.


This has to be a troll.....someone couldn't possibly believe they'll get 40 watts from a freaking frame could they? 

You need something though.....that dogma has got to be slowing you down.


----------



## woodys737 (Dec 31, 2005)

Jay Strongbow said:


> This has to be a troll.....someone couldn't possibly believe they'll get 40 watts from a freaking frame could they?
> 
> You need something though.....that dogma has got to be slowing you down.


Seems like bullsh!t doesn't it. But the first ones to start all this aero frame wattage savings crap was Cervelo with the S5. Read their white paper on it. 30W at 40km/h IIRC. The 30W is compared to a traditional road bike which isn't very well defined.


----------



## velodog (Sep 26, 2007)

This guy knows.


----------



## Bridgey (Mar 26, 2003)

Aero must have some truth behind it. In the TdF, the front runners were willing to give up 10 to 15 secs at the top of a climb to swap there road frame (with aero bars) to a TT bike. Quite a few of my friends have got Cervelo S5's and swear that it is just faster. They say that they can physically feel it. Placebo, not sure. Their times have got faster. 

Regardless if it is a free 10W or 40W, faster than what I have now. But I agree, there is much I can improve in regards to marginal gains in other areas (including position, etc).


----------



## mulkdog45 (Apr 5, 2006)

Have you checked out the Scott Foil?


----------



## mikerp (Jul 24, 2011)

looigi said:


> How about going to a wind tunnel and working on your body position? Could make more diff than an aero road frame.


Good point, if you are going to spend 7k for a frame you really should go to a fitter that maximizes it. IE AEROPRO COACHING & PERFORMANCE SERVICES | Fit To Perform!


----------



## asgelle (Apr 21, 2003)

tvad said:


> To your specific question, there is no best Aero frame. If there was a best Aero frame, every pro race would be won with the same frame, but they aren't.


From a logical standpoint that isn't true. What you wrote is only true if one frame is so far superior to all the others that the difference is greater than all the other factors controlling who wins a bike race. There's a lot of room between so great that no other factors matter and best by a measurable and significant amount.


----------



## OldChipper (May 15, 2011)

There's always this:

Race: NOAH FAST 1406A

Some of the more innovative ideas out there and they don't spray about absolute watts saved.


----------



## wim (Feb 28, 2005)

OldChipper said:


> Some of the more innovative ideas out there and they don't spray about absolute watts saved.


Which might be indicative of the fact that, say, cheap-ass lycra shoe covers might cut your TT time by more than any frame design possibly could. Obviously, a frame seller would not want to lead a potential buyer's thinking into that direction. But I agree: refreshing to see someone _not_ use bogus numbers.


----------



## asgelle (Apr 21, 2003)

wim said:


> Which might be indicative of the fact that, say, cheap-ass lycra shoe covers might cut your TT time by more than any frame design possibly could.


It has been shown that the benefit of shoe covers is highly variable. Data has shown that for a single rider using a single set of shoe covers, shoe covers reduced drag in some positions while in others, they increased it. 

Which goes to the point that with all the independent wind tunnel testing and field tests with power meters, any manufacturer data that doesn't stand up is revealed pretty quickly.


----------



## tvad (Aug 31, 2003)

asgelle said:


> What you wrote is only true if one frame is so far superior to all the others that the difference is greater than all the other factors controlling who wins a bike race.


Correct. That would be the definition of the "Best Aero Frame" as far as I'm concerned.

I stand by my comment that there is no best aero frame.


----------



## BikesOfALesserGod (Jul 22, 2012)

The OP belongs in slowtwitch.com


----------



## wim (Feb 28, 2005)

asgelle said:


> It has been shown that the benefit of shoe covers is highly variable.


Well, OK. I picked shoe covers at random to illustrate my point. I did not want to argue their merit or lack of it.


----------



## Gearhead65 (Jan 23, 2010)

May look at the BMC TMR01.


----------



## Kodiak21 (Jan 30, 2012)

https://www.giant-bicycles.com/backoffice/_upload_us/news/2013/veloseptemberaerotest_low.pdf

Relatively recent VeloNews article; as always though take with a grain of salt. VeloNews also have a previous edition, which included bikes like the Scott Foil and Specialized Venge


----------



## albert owen (Jul 7, 2008)

I read/heard that in the TdF, Belkin riders could choose between riding the Propel or TCR. They looked to be favouring the TCR. Quite what this means I don't know, but my suspicion is that this Aero thing is just another way (along with electronic shifting) of parting us from our money now that bikes have reached such an advanced technological level.


----------



## Jay Strongbow (May 8, 2010)

Bridgey said:


> Aero must have some truth behind it. In the TdF, the front runners were willing to give up 10 to 15 secs at the top of a climb to swap there road frame (with aero bars) to a TT bike. Quite a few of my friends have got Cervelo S5's and swear that it is just faster. They say that they can physically feel it. Placebo, not sure. Their times have got faster.
> 
> Regardless if it is a free 10W or 40W, faster than what I have now. But I agree, there is much I can improve in regards to marginal gains in other areas (including position, etc).


Of course there's something to being aero.  But changing a body position and tweaking tubes of a bike are basically apples and oranges. You stand to gain a lot but making the most of your body position because it's so darn big. Frame tubes, not so much. 40watts is an insane claim. They must be comparing it to a bike with a sheet of plywood as a head badge.


----------



## Camilo (Jun 23, 2007)

Jay Strongbow said:


> This has to be a troll.....someone couldn't possibly believe they'll get 40 watts from a freaking frame could they?
> 
> You need something though.....that dogma has got to be slowing you down.


Also the fact that someone thinks there might be an objectively "fastest" or "best" of anything. I always get a kick out of people who think that.


----------



## Donn12 (Apr 10, 2012)

CICLI PINARELLO S.p.A. 

this comes in right at your 7k mark. I hope you already have wheels and bars and shifters and a saddle


----------



## merckxman (Jan 23, 2002)

I was also going to mention the Ridley Noah Fast, here is a review:
Review: Ridley Noah Fast | road.cc | Road cycling news, Bike reviews, Commuting, Leisure riding, Sportives and more


----------



## stevesbike (Jun 3, 2002)

lots of silly comments - of course there's a 'fastest' bike. It's the one with the lowest drag across yaw angles. Whether it matters getting the 'fastest' bike is a different question, but it doesn't negate the fact that bikes differ in aerodynamics and the differences can be quantified.


----------



## velodog (Sep 26, 2007)

stevesbike said:


> lots of silly comments - of course there's a 'fastest' bike. It's the one with the lowest drag across yaw angles. Whether it matters getting the 'fastest' bike is a different question, but it doesn't negate the fact that bikes differ in aerodynamics and the differences can be quantified.


The fastest bike doesn't amount to a hill of beans if there's a meatball riding it.(not necessarily aimed at the OP) 

And besides that, if the fastest bike is that important to do well in ones endeavors, what happens next year when a newer, faster bike is introduced to the buying public?


----------



## asgelle (Apr 21, 2003)

stevesbike said:


> lots of silly comments - of course there's a 'fastest' bike. It's the one with the lowest drag across yaw angles.


Except a) no single bike shows lowest drag at all angles, and b) there's no consensus yet on the proper weighting over the range, not that it matters since the correct weighting depends on a particular rider's speed.


----------



## asgelle (Apr 21, 2003)

velodog said:


> And besides that, if the fastest bike is that important to do well in ones endeavors, what happens next year when a newer, faster bike is introduced to the buying public?


By that logic, I would never buy a bike, car, computer, television, etc. since there'll always be a better one in the near future. The correct way to look at it is since I need one (whatever that is) now, why not buy the one which best meets my needs?


----------



## stevesbike (Jun 3, 2002)

there's enough on yaw probability modeling to make a good estimate of real-world yaw angles to evaluate these frames. The impact of rider speed can also be evaluated (especially since the slower the rider the higher the yaw angle and that's where the good aero frames make their money against traditional shaped tubes). Just making the point that frames can be evaluated this way...



asgelle said:


> Except a) no single bike shows lowest drag at all angles, and b) there's no consensus yet on the proper weighting over the range, not that it matters since the correct weighting depends on a particular rider's speed.


----------



## tvad (Aug 31, 2003)

stevesbike is correct that the fastest aero bike can be determined (although this article discusses the problems with wind tunnel testing and the conclusion that there is no perfect test...and therefore no definitive conclusion about "the fastest" bike). Whether a comprehensive, independent test of all available aero bikes has been conducted is unknown to me. Then, there's the requirement that it cost under $7000.

Will buying the fastest aero bike versus buying the second, third or fourth fastest aero bike under $7000 make a practical difference in your speed? Probably not.

Unless you're someone who enjoys collating and studying data, I recommend buying one of many excellent aero bikes equipped with some excellent low-drag wheels, improving your position on the bike, and training. That will make you faster.

This article from Bicycling Magazine in Oct. 2012 puts the Cervelo S5 VWD at the top of the heap of bikes they tested. You have friends who like this bike, so it seems like a good possibility. Is it the fastest aero bike currently available? Maybe. Maybe not.


----------



## Bridgey (Mar 26, 2003)

Thanks for all replies so far. I train on avg 12 to 15hrs a week. I have had a retule fitting, etc. Okay perhaps I can train more but my wife would proabably get upset. Perhaps it won't make a huge difference buying an aero frame, but I've saved up for awhile and naturally want the best my money can buy. 

I'd like to hear from anyone that rides an aero bike whether they notice a difference or not.


----------



## Donn12 (Apr 10, 2012)

are all of your rides pretty flat? if so an aero bike wold be my choice. I like some climbs and fast descents so I wanted a better all around package. Stiffness of the frame and how the bike feels made me pick a Dogma.


----------



## tvad (Aug 31, 2003)

Bridgey said:


> I'd like to hear from anyone that rides an aero bike whether they notice a difference or not.


Why don't you test ride an aero bike and decide for yourself if you notice a difference? Do you not have the opportunity to do this?


----------



## stevesbike (Jun 3, 2002)

yes, I was just commenting re 'fastest.' The S5 is a good example of the compromises that are built into 'fastest' with some of these frames. No doubt its wind tunnel performance is aided by its front end. The downside is that it makes for a frame whose front end feels soft in corners (a Garmin rider mentioned this to me). 

The difference between 'best' and 'worst' in the wind tunnel among the newer aero frames is less than 1 sec/km. Personally, I'd buy a Foil and give up a bit of aero for the sake of a bike that rides like a road frame and not a modified Tri frame...



tvad said:


> stevesbike is correct that the fastest aero bike can be determined (although this article discusses the problems with wind tunnel testing and the conclusion that there is no perfect test...and therefore no definitive conclusion about "the fastest" bike). Whether a comprehensive, independent test of all available aero bikes has been conducted is unknown to me. Then, there's the requirement that it cost under $7000.
> 
> Will buying the fastest aero bike versus buying the second, third or fourth fastest aero bike under $7000 make a practical difference in your speed? Probably not.
> 
> ...


----------



## tvad (Aug 31, 2003)

stevesbike said:


> The S5 is a good example of the compromises that are built into 'fastest' with some of these frames. No doubt its wind tunnel performance is aided by its front end. The downside is that it makes for a frame whose front end feels soft in corners (a Garmin rider mentioned this to me).
> 
> The difference between 'best' and 'worst' in the wind tunnel among the newer aero frames is less than 1 sec/km. Personally, I'd buy a Foil and give up a bit of aero for the sake of a bike that rides like a road frame and not a modified Tri frame...


The poor guy's going to get paralysis by analysis. 

IMO, he should go to a local bike shop and ride a couple of options that he's identified as contenders and make his decision based on the test rides.


----------



## Camilo (Jun 23, 2007)

stevesbike said:


> lots of silly comments - of course there's a 'fastest' bike. It's the one with the lowest drag across yaw angles. Whether it matters getting the 'fastest' bike is a different question, but it doesn't negate the fact that bikes differ in aerodynamics and the differences can be quantified.


OK, which one is it? And why doesn't every one who races and can choose their own gear ride it? And why aren't the pro racers who are bound to a different company at a quantifiable (given normal sampling and statistical tests) disadvantage? Or are they?



tvad said:


> stevesbike is correct that the fastest aero bike can be determined (although this article discusses the problems with wind tunnel testing and the conclusion that there is no perfect test...and therefore no definitive conclusion about "the fastest" bike).


OK, now I'm confused. You guys are saying that there's a measurable way of stating which bike is "fastest", yet, here the conclusion is that there is no perfect test and therefore no definitive conclussion about the fastest bike.

Doesnt' this mean that there's no such thing as 'fastest' or 'best' bike? I just think it's funny that people have so much faith in engineering or scientific analysis that they think there actually is "best" or "fastest" of anything int he cycling world.


----------



## tvad (Aug 31, 2003)

Camilo said:


> OK, now I'm confused. You guys are saying that there's a measurable way of stating which bike is "fastest", yet, here the conclusion is that there is no perfect test and therefore no definitive conclussion about the fastest bike.
> 
> Doesnt' this mean that there's no such thing as 'fastest' or 'best' bike? I just think it's funny that people have so much faith in engineering or scientific analysis that they think there actually is "best" or "fastest" of anything int he cycling world.


You should be confused. If you read the Bicycling article, you will see they tested several bikes and determined which is fastest, but they also stated why the test is flawed and how the results could vary depending on several variables including whether or not a rider was on the bikes, and whether or not the rider maintained the same positioning from bike to bike.

That's why I stated very early on that there is no "fastest" aero frame. There are too many variables that go into how fast a given bike will go to make a definitive conclusion.


----------



## velodog (Sep 26, 2007)

Something to do with it?


----------



## terbennett (Apr 1, 2006)

The fastest aero bike? The one with the fastest rider on it of course!!!


----------



## Bridgey (Mar 26, 2003)

Hey Elafhine. I'm not the one making the claims. Unless Giant, et.al are lying, they are saying you can save up to 40W over tradional frames. Not sure which ones of course, but in short I'm doing all I can with the time that I have to be the best I can be (bike fit, training, losing weight, etc). If I can get a free 20W, when attacking, sprinting, etc then hey that's great. Of course I could turn to drugs but that's not me.

If aero is crap then why do the pro's put in a lot effort for marginal gains in the time trial discipline. They cover shoes, cables, brakes behind frame, etc. Why bother if it makes no difference. Okay 40W might be a bit hopeful, but even 10W is 10W I save for later. Could be the difference between winning and losing.


----------



## velodog (Sep 26, 2007)

Bridgey said:


> If aero is crap then why do the pro's put in a lot effort for marginal gains in the time trial discipline. They cover shoes, cables, brakes behind frame, etc. Why bother if it makes no difference.


They do it because, yes it does work, but when the gains become so small they do it because it sells bikes. A Fabian Cancellera or Tony Martin could win on a Schwinn Varsity but they ride Specialized so everybody wants one. 

Marketing has as much to do with aero as aero does.


----------



## tvad (Aug 31, 2003)

Bridgey, how many aero bikes have you test ridden thus far?


----------



## Bridgey (Mar 26, 2003)

gandy-dancer said:


> "_*The best*_" for what purpose? Is buying _"...*the best* my money can buy..."_ the ends in itself?
> 
> Going by what little you've divulged, you strike me as somebody for whom technical facts, practicality and common sense holds no truck. I would peg your decision-making style as being influenced more by "_perceptions_" versus "_practicalities_". More to the point, you seem to give more weight to "_other people's perceptions_" (your wife's, strangers on the internet) than you do to what is the most practical for your own purposes.
> 
> ...


No offense taken, food for thought. I am very much a numbers/stats man. I love statistics, power data, etc. But also appreciate the experience of others. So when I say the best, I mean the one that is the most aero at the majority of yaw angles. The one that will give me the most free watts. Of course I will go for a slightly less aero bike if it means a perfect fit or if it was a more comfortable ride. All important to achieving your cycling goals. 

In short I'm trying to narrow down my field and then I will go and test about 3 or 4. I didn't expect these type of responses to what I considered to be a simple honest question that drew on the experience of others and people's knowledge of the data that is out there.

I guess I can take from this that either there is no most aero/best, etc or so minute that I shouldn't care and/or I'm getting responses mainly by people who don't own or have ever ridden an aero bike. So as they are unsure on whether or not they do make a difference or are justifying the fact that they don't own one, they play devil's advocate instead. 

Just don't go crying to your mates when someone on an aero bike beats you in a sprint by a tyre width saying something like "He only beat me because he had an aero bike". Obviously aero isn't imporant to you. Enjoying being a weight weenie instead, which was yesterday's marketing craze and have proven to give very little gains. I believe aero equipment is one of the most least understood and under-estimated issues out there. IF it wasn't for the long distances the pro's race and therefore comfort being of major concern, I think we'd see more of them.


----------



## tvad (Aug 31, 2003)

Bridgey said:


> IF it wasn't for the long distances the pro's race and therefore comfort being of major concern, I think we'd see more of them.


Trek Madone, Giant Propel, Ridley Noah Fast, Cervelo S5, Specialized Venge are all aero bikes that are ridden by pro teams...some on a daily basis.

You still haven't answered the reasonable question of your intended use for the aero bike. Road racing? Triathlon racing? Time Trial racing? Flat profile riding? Hilly/mountainous riding? Fast group riding?

An aero bike is appropriate or preferable for only some of these.

This aero bike test of four aero bikes states the wattage savings of 20w-22w over the fastest tested aero bike *was at 30mph* (you really have to dig to find this tidbit of useful information).


----------



## stevesbike (Jun 3, 2002)

Tony Martin won the world time trial championships by 5.37 seconds, so the idea that aero doesn't play a role for riders like him is nonsense. That's about the difference in aero savings for an aero front brake (tririg omega) vs. a standard caliper. Cancellara also rides a Trek. 

Marketing doesn't invalidate the effects of aero. The question is whether aero matters for particular applications more than other properties, etc.



velodog said:


> They do it because, yes it does work, but when the gains become so small they do it because it sells bikes. A Fabian Cancellera or Tony Martin could win on a Schwinn Varsity but they ride Specialized so everybody wants one.
> 
> Marketing has as much to do with aero as aero does.


----------



## Bridgey (Mar 26, 2003)

tvad said:


> Trek Madone, Giant Propel, Ridley Noah Fast, Cervelo S5, Specialized Venge are all aero bikes that are ridden by pro teams...some on a daily basis.
> 
> You still haven't answered the reasonable question of your intended use for the aero bike. Road racing? Triathlon racing? Time Trial racing? Flat profile riding? Hilly/mountainous riding? Fast group riding?
> 
> ...


Sorry, I intend using it for road racing over all profiles. Distances up to 220km's. Will probably bi-pass using it for our Sat Crit races. Perhaps will slap on some clip on TT bars and use it in TT's. As a rider, I'm probably classed as an alrounder. can do it all, but a master of none.


----------



## tvad (Aug 31, 2003)

Bridgey said:


> Sorry, I intend using it for road racing over all profiles. Distances up to 220km's. Will probably bi-pass using it for our Sat Crit races. Perhaps will slap on some clip on TT bars and use it in TT's. As a rider, I'm probably classed as an alrounder. can do it all, but a master of none.


Well, you've done your homework, and I'm certain you've seen that aero bikes are generally used for flat stages when racers have a choice among bikes to ride. Also, I'm sure you've also read that comfort is thus far not a strong point of aero bikes that have tested "fastest".

Just a heads up.

Good luck. I'm checking out of this discussion.


----------



## Rickard Laufer (Jan 1, 2013)

I ride a Foil and i can't really get it about S5 and frames with tubes like this. If you have side/ swirl winds hitting the frame, it seems it should be more affected than a round tubed frame. The effect i think of will not help you go faster, on the contrary. Just shifting from 50mm rim depth wheels to 40mm rim depth wheels is very much noticable. I will change my Foil for a round tubed bike, not as stiff either. I really like to see if the new bike will be any slower than the Foil. I kind of doubt it! Do you ever consider less comfort or trading comfort for aero probably takes it's toll on your body? Aero tubes and bikes are hardly made to void vibrations or be comfortable. You mention long rides. The longer i ride, the more i notice that the Foil is too harsh for me. I am sure i can ride faster over a longer period on a bike that is more comfortable. Where i live it is pretty flat, but very windy. So in theory aero is the way to go here.


----------



## Bridgey (Mar 26, 2003)

Thanks for all your replies. In addition to weight loss, hard training, etc, I've decided to go with the 2014 Felt AR1 (Not sure on SRAM22 or Ultegra DI2 build yet). Based on my research, I think it is going to be the one that gives me the best fit for my dimensions, comfort and hopefully speed.


----------



## eischman (Jul 9, 2003)

Nice thread...I am in the same boat....well not really. I want an aero road bike to make me faster on my long solo rides and the occasional group ride with a few friend...I may also do a triathlon on occasion. This year I bought a tri bike and learned a lot about how to get aero and be comfortable. Then I set up my older lemond carbon/ti bike to more mimic that position. The result was amazing mainly do to getting the body out of the wind. almost 2mph ave increase! 

I am not sure how much the aero tri frame and aero wheels made a difference because I seamed to be almost as fast on the tri bike with aero wheels as with the lemond however it is hard to compare based on ave speed. I now want an aero frame... but am afraid it wont really help that much.... do I buy a frame and move my parts or not? 10-20 extra watt resistance sounds like it might be work it....I guess. what is the watt gain or loss between ksyrium wheels and zipp 404s?

Fact is you can buy a used aero frame like a venge for $1000..which is pretty cheap....but it is not as beautiful as my lemond.


----------



## ewitz (Sep 11, 2002)

eischman said:


> 10-20 extra watt resistance sounds like it might be work it....I guess. what is the watt gain or loss between ksyrium wheels and zipp 404s?


I ride the S-Works Venge with some 46/66 wheels and I wish it was an extra 10-20 watts. I think you are overestimating the aero benefit.


----------



## WEG (Nov 6, 2005)

How do you like the 2014 Felt AR? I am also thinking of a new aero road bike and I love my current Felt F1


----------



## Mr645 (Jun 14, 2013)

Go for the smallest frame you can fit into, one with the lowest front end. Working on Aero techniques for the rider is far more important that any differences in the bike. 
Fuji Norcom comes to mind, or Cervelo P5 but any of the top tri bikes will be close


----------

