# Back on Michelin Pro 4 Race: Heaven!



## Pirx (Aug 9, 2009)

I used to ride the Michelin Pro Race for years, but for reasons I don't remember I switched to a Conti GP4000 about 3000 miles ago. The tire was o.k., and clearly lasted (better than those Michelins, I admit), but it did feel somewhat harsh. So, today (the Conti was starting to show some of its casing...) I put a new Michelin back on, and, boy, what a difference! The thing feels like you're gliding over the asphalt. I've never ridden tubies, but this is the kind of ride quality people must be raving about for those. It's like day and night between the Conti and the Michelin. To be fair, this is a brand-new Michelin replacing a worn-out Conti, but still. I think I'm going to stick with those Michelins...


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## SystemShock (Jun 14, 2008)

+1. I used to be a Conti guy, eventually switched over to Michelin. Doubt I'm ever switching back. 

To be fair to Conti, they were by far the best tires I ever rode 'back in the day' (late '80s/early '90s), with maybe only Avocet being remotely competitive for road clinchers then. 

The Contis made the Specialized road tires back then feel like dogsh**.


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## bobonker (Feb 12, 2011)

A brand new high quality tire will always feel nicer than a really worn out high quality tire. I notice this each time I replace my Vittoria Open Corsa EVOs (which unfortunately is pretty often because they wear fast).

That said, I've been wanting to give the Michelin PR4 a try. Where did you get yours?

Bob


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## tihsepa (Nov 27, 2008)

Thats how I feel about Vittorias. 
I would like to try the Michelin 4's but am afraid to dump money into more tires. I still have a set of Corsas on the shelf.


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## Pirx (Aug 9, 2009)

bobonker said:


> Where did you get yours?


Amazon, I think, since my LBS didn't have them.


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## Kerry Irons (Feb 25, 2002)

bobonker said:


> A brand new high quality tire will always feel nicer than a really worn out high quality tire.


Yup. People confuse themselves all the time when they replace worn out items with new items. Same for chains, cassettes, derailleurs, etc. It's the source of a lot of ill-founded opinions about how one thing is better than another, when what is really going on is that new stuff is better than worn out stuff.


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## looigi (Nov 24, 2010)

I just got two Pro4s for $66.50 incl shipping at Ribble. 

Agree that new tires usually feel better than well worn tires. I attribute this to the additional rubber smoothing out the ride. It's certainly a better and quieter ride with new tires on my cars too. Likely some contributory placebo effect in there.

That said, Pro4s are sweet riding tires.


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## Pirx (Aug 9, 2009)

Kerry Irons said:


> Yup. People confuse themselves all the time when they replace worn out items with new items.


Well, yes, and I indicated as much in my original post. However, when I swapped in the brand-new Conti for the previous Michelin, the ride got _worse_. So, in my opinion and experience, those Michelins are indeed heads and shoulders above the Contis, in ride quality. However, some of the Michelin PR that I had did not last as long as other tires, and some were prone to getting cuts (I think there was a batch of Pro 3s that had issues). We'll see how the Pro 4 does.


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## Jay Strongbow (May 8, 2010)

bobonker said:


> A brand new high quality tire will always feel nicer than a really worn out high quality tire.


That's not what I perceive. To me tires feel smoothest and fastest when they are well worn. Cornering, well that's another story.


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## nOOky (Mar 20, 2009)

I like the Pro 4's. My rear is starting to go after about 2,400 miles, which isn't bad considering the grip overall and when wet. Been flat free and no nicks or cuts like the old Pro 3's were prone to for me. They remind me a lot of their Pilot Power motorcycle tires, great cornering, predictable ride and handling, but when they die they die hard.


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## bobonker (Feb 12, 2011)

I just picked up a set from Ribble, too. Love my Vittorias Open Corsa EVOs but dang, they wear out fast! For organized rides and base miles, hopefully these will be a better choice. I do have Conti 700x25c tires, too, so I'll have a few tires to be able to compare them to.

Bob


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## dkilburn (Aug 1, 2009)

Good Morning,
That is good mileage. I like the Pro 4's. but don't gt that mileage. I think the lesser mileage is caused by all the chip seal roads in the Hudson Valley. A couple of the Conti boys have switched. 
I have used the Pro 4's on the rear of both bikes, switch the fronts around with a couple different ones, Zipp, Veloflex and the Pro 4. I have used them on the Zipp 303 FC wheels and Reynolds Assault.

We all like & try different things.


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## echo7 (Sep 7, 2010)

while the ride quality is good to excellent,, durability was poor.
I was about 500k when the sidewall went bonkers..


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## mimason (Oct 7, 2006)

I'll ride either tire and have thousands of mile on each. In summary the Conti is a better all around tire for training and the Pro4 is better for racing IMHO. The Contis are more durable and less prone to cuts. I feel the Pro4s corner better and are slightly smoother but get cut up more and are susceptible dry rot. The Pro3s and Pro4s are the only tires I've owned that get dried out and crack after a couple months or so.

If priced the same I buy the Contis but if I can get the Pro4s for $5 or more less per tire I get them. I look at it as I can buy 2 tubes for the difference.


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## DrSmile (Jul 22, 2006)

I've noticed that when I remove an old tire, the rubber seems to be much less elastic and supple than when I installed it. My guess is that the sun ages the rubber which causes the tire to become less resilient. I've really noticed this on non-bike butyl products where age alone causes a rapid decline in elasticity and strength.


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## B05 (Jul 31, 2011)

I was about to pull the trigger on these tires until I realized I haven't put much mileage on the 4000S I got earlier this year. 

I'm coming off from Vittoria Rubino and Corsa Evo. I love Vittorias but they wear out so fast (mind you I'm not a high mileage guy). I have them relegated on trainer duty because of the amount of cuts. 

Maybe next year I'll try these tires. I'm underwhelmed with the 4000S. I feel like the ride is dull. I'll try to experiment with the tire pressure.


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## tarwheel2 (Jul 7, 2005)

I've been tempted to try Michelins again, but somewhat confused by the terminology for the new Pro4 models -- eg, race, vs endurance vs whatever they call the other model. I think their marketers are shooting themselves in the foot by changing names of their models/brands all the time. It is hard to keep them straight.

I was a diehard Michelin fan for years but they seemed to go downhill with the Pro3s, and I switched to Conti GP 4000s after that and later to Vittoria Rubinos. One thing I always liked about Michelins is that they run wider than most brands -- which is the same reason why I have started to dislike Contis, which always seem to run narrower than advertised. Vittorias seem to run true to size.


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## nOOky (Mar 20, 2009)

In my experience and from what I've heard from others the Pro 4's have less tendency to get those small cuts in the tread that the Pro 3's seemed to get so often. I had problems with the Pro 3's getting flats easily and the life of the tire wasn't great by any means. I don't have experience with the Pro 4 Endurance, only the regular Service Course tires.


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## SystemShock (Jun 14, 2008)

What I've heard (since I haven't owned all of the three):

Pro 2 > Pro 4 >>> Pro 3. 

True or not?


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## looigi (Nov 24, 2010)

SystemShock said:


> ...Pro 2 > Pro 4 >>> Pro 3.
> 
> True or not?


Never ran 2s but so far I like the 4s more than the ten Pro3s I went through in ~12,500 miles. That comes to 2500 miles avg on a tire (recalling that there are two tires on the bike). Didn't keep track of all the flats from day one but in the last 5000 of those miles I got 4 flats. That's a pretty low rate as I'm sure earlier I was flatting more frequently.

Pro4's ride seems significantly better and resistance to cutting seems better too, though the myriad small cuts I got in the 3's never seemed to be a problem in themselves. Of course I haven't quantified any of this so it could be imaginary.


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## CleavesF (Dec 31, 2007)

I've never tried the Pro 4's, but certainly the Pro2 >> Pro 3

I had a sidewall blowout on the rear on a 40 MPH decent on new Pro 3 (about 300 miles) and I was not happy about that one. Then again I was running latex tubes and perhaps the heat buildup from braking during cornering made them go...

Currently running Pro 2 and Pro 3 front/rear right now. That's the same Pro 3 from the descent that got put from "front" to "rear" duty.


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## echo7 (Sep 7, 2010)

nOOky said:


> In my experience and from what I've heard from others the Pro 4's have less tendency to get those small cuts in the tread that the Pro 3's seemed to get so often. I had problems with the Pro 3's getting flats easily and the life of the tire wasn't great by any means. I don't have experience with the Pro 4 Endurance, only the regular Service Course tires.


here's my pro4s 2 months ago and 500km clicks...

View attachment 284789


View attachment 284792


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## JMac (Oct 23, 2005)

Anyone compared the Pro4 to Schwalbe Ultremo?


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## jnbrown (Dec 9, 2009)

I agree Michelins ride nicer than Conti.
I have been on Pro3s and still have a few so have not tried the Pro4.
On my tandem I use GP4000 because the Michelins would wear out very fast.
I don't notice the harsher ride of the GP4000 on the tandem as much as i do on my road bike.


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## dracula (Mar 9, 2010)

Pirx said:


> I used to ride the Michelin Pro Race for years, but for reasons I don't remember I switched to a Conti GP4000 about 3000 miles ago. The tire was o.k., and clearly lasted (better than those Michelins, I admit), but it did feel somewhat harsh. So, today (the Conti was starting to show some of its casing...) I put a new Michelin back on, and, boy, what a difference! The thing feels like you're gliding over the asphalt. I've never ridden tubies, but this is the kind of ride quality people must be raving about for those. It's like day and night between the Conti and the Michelin. To be fair, this is a brand-new Michelin replacing a worn-out Conti, but still. I think I'm going to stick with those Michelins...


I think you need to ride Conti tyres at lower pressure.

I ride my Continental GP 700x24c with max 6/5 bar (front/rear) as any other and higher pressure is almost unbearable.

By comparison I ride my 700x23c Michelin Pro4 Endurance at max 7/6 bar (front/rear).

The Continental is the better of the two because it is the wider tyre. Although I think the sidewalls are better with the Michelins.


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## dkilburn (Aug 1, 2009)

Good Evening,
Not sure about the pressure.
But today I have a cut in the side wall of my PRO 4. I can say for sure I did hit a few stone as you can hear them go. I got to ride to the end.
I think the Continental may have a bit better side wall,
A new tire is on, so good for tomorrow.

Thanks, 
.


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## SystemShock (Jun 14, 2008)

echo7 said:


> here's my pro4s 2 months ago and 500km clicks...
> 
> View attachment 284789
> 
> ...



Geez. That sucks.


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## dracula (Mar 9, 2010)

dkilburn said:


> Good Evening,
> Not sure about the pressure.
> But today I have a cut in the side wall of my PRO 4. I can say for sure I did hit a few stone as you can hear them go. I got to ride to the end.
> I think the Continental may have a bit better side wall,
> ...


I have not seen a Pro4 in flesh but imagine they are Micky Mouse paper thin. The bead-to-bead of all the Pro4s in 700x23 is a meagre 60 mm and more like a 22 mm tyre.

In terms of sidewalls the Pro4 Endurance is okay. Never had any problems with mine.

My current Continental GP 700x24c show a wee bulge at the front and rear tyre at the sidewall, respectively. However, the internal structure is not compromised and I keep riding them. After 5250 km they still show the little gouge at the wear indicator. 
By the way: they ditched the GP 700x24c (I cannot find them any longer on the Continental homepage). The Continental tyre Force from the Force/Attack tyre set can serve as a replacement if one is after a true 24mm tyre; it has more threads per inch (60 tpi for the old GP 700x24c versus 120tpi for the Force) but lacks one additional puncture belt, though

It depends on the streets you are riding on. If the tarmac you are on is butterly smooth there is probbaly no additional benefit to gain by lowering the tyre pressure. However, if you happen to live in the real world on a bumpy road a lower tyre pressure will transform your ride. But I must say in my original home country road surfacing is so much better than here in the UK and I could go away with a 19 mm tyre if I had to.


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## Typetwelve (Jul 1, 2012)

echo7 said:


> here's my pro4s 2 months ago and 500km clicks...
> 
> View attachment 284789
> 
> ...


HEY! That looks just like my brand freaking new Conti 4000s That had <250 miles on it! Did the exact same thing...great use for a $45-50 tire.

Probikekit has the Michelin tires on sale today...just got a pair of the Pro 4 service for $60...I'm going to compare the two (4000s-vs-Pro 4) and pop in here some time in the future.


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## bobonker (Feb 12, 2011)

My PR4s showed up on Wednesday after ordering them last Thursday from Ribble. Really pleased with how fast they showed up.

The blue sidewall is darker than I thought and now I kinda wish I'd gotten black, but I think this is doable.










I needed to use a tire lever to get them on the Pacenti SL23s, but just for that last little bit. I expect that I'll be able to get them on with no tools once they've stretched a little.

Bob


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## Typetwelve (Jul 1, 2012)

Popped on the Pro 4's for a short ride last weekend. Like I said before I have been running the Conti 4000s.

I cannot speak for durability of the tire but the ride difference is immediate. The ride I had planned had quite a bit of climbing so I decided to run the tires at 100psi. I normally run my conti at 90psi. I can say with 100% certainty that the Pro4 at 100 rides twice as nice as the Conti at 90. I was shocked at how much nicer the ride is, even with 10 extra psi to make the tire harder.

Like I said, this is a very short term assessment...but so far, the ride quality is immediate.


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## DasBoost (Aug 15, 2013)

In for updates; I currently ride on 25 Gatorskins but have been noticing the PR4 Endurance and Service Course on Chainlove recently for around $45 apiece. Might pick some up to try when they pop back up and see how well they fare.


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