# I "caused" an accident.



## Brick Tamland (Mar 31, 2006)

Riding home last night after a huge rain storm. It had stopped raining for maybe 10 minutes, and so the roads were still wet. I came to a road crossing (the commute is almost 90% MUT) and cars stopped to let me cross. I started to cross when I heard the skidding start.....sure enough, three or four cars back, one car rear-ends another. 

I finish crossing and wait - there's a side-street that turns off the road where the accident happened with a small parking lot for access to the MUT. I felt pretty bad about what happened, even though it wasn't my fault. The guy who got rear-ended pulls into the lot and gets out, obviously angry. I figured I would wait to make sure the other car stayed at the scene, and/or if they needed a witness. The rear-ending car pulls into the lot, and the driver gets out. At this moment, I'm a little worried things are going to get ugly , but the other driver was pretty apologetic. The rear-ended driver says "No problem, I just hate it when people stop for bikers." Then he looks at me and says "No offense." 

None taken. But since I was obviously the problem in the eyes of these drivers, I just headed on my merry way without so much as a word. It looked like there was no dispute as to what happened, and I didn't see my presence being anything other than an irritant. 

I kind of hate all the anti-car venom that gets spewed on cycling message boards. And honestly, I'm not offended by the comment - it's a pretty frustrating situation when you're in an accident through no fault of your own. But it's pretty amazing to me how quickly the blame was pointed in my direction - it's a clearly marked crosswalk, and the rear-ending driver was obviously driving way too fast for the conditions (and people drive too fast on this road in general). If you regularly drive that road, you know that drivers customarily (and thankfully) stop to let people cross. 

So, at any rate, I hope those two worked it out with minimal inconvenience. The rear-ending car was pretty banged up, but the rear-ended car surprisingly had minimal damage. I'm going to continue to be uber-cautious at these road crossings (this is actually one of my main concerns - getting crushed when someone gets rear-ended). And many thanks to those drivers who do stop and let us cross, and keep an eye for those of us who ride bikes.


----------



## vontress (Jul 19, 2009)

I understand your empathy but you certainly aren't to blame. I think when things like this happen people are just frustrated and want to cast blame. You would have to be an idiot to blame someone for using a cross walk. Biking has really made me aware how aggressive people are in their cars and how they have a sense of entitlement. I use to argue right and wrong by legal standards. Now I'm taking the advise of a gentlemen who almost hit me while passing on a blind corner over a double yellow line. His advise was, " it don't matter who was right or wrong, dead is dead." at the time I thought he was an idiot. Now I only think it's good advise. I, like you, am going to be uber-cautious.


----------



## Brick Tamland (Mar 31, 2006)

vontress said:


> I understand your empathy but you certainly aren't to blame. I think when things like this happen people are just frustrated and want to cast blame. You would have to be an idiot to blame someone for using a cross walk. Biking has really made me aware how aggressive people are in their cars and how they have a sense of entitlement. I use to argue right and wrong by legal standards. Now I'm taking the advise of a gentlemen who almost hit me while passing on a blind corner over a double yellow line. His advise was, " it don't matter who was right or wrong, dead is dead." at the time I thought he was an idiot. Now I only think it's good advise. I, like you, am going to be uber-cautious.


Oh, I'm not blaming myself. I just thought it was interesting that the rear-ended drive didn't point any blame at the guy who rear-ended him. I probably shouldn't be. Oh well.


----------



## Steve B. (Jun 26, 2004)

I had this happen once when a car rear-ended another car at a stop sign. First car started to go then noticed that 2 cyclists (me and a buddy) were in the way, and in the right (we had a thru lane with no traffic control). Once first car see's us and stops short, second car - thinking first car was going to proceed, slams into first car.

We ride along a 1/2 mile when an SUV pulls along side and a women screams out the window at us "You know you caused an accident back there" and drives off. 

Uh ?. WTF is she talking about !. We had a thru lane. The side street traffic has to yield to thru traffic. The second car was too frigging stupid to know to watch for a clear lane before proceeding.

People never run short of stupid, especially when driving a car.


----------



## Trevor Ash (May 19, 2005)

People are naturally angry right after an accident. I don't blame them for not taking immediate responsibility or at least recognizing their own failure. I'm sure about an hour or two later when they've cooled down they'll eventually be honest with themselves. Life lessons and all.

Then again, plenty of people won't learn a damn thing and will blame the pedestrians/cyclists for everything 

People kind of get stuck in a zone when they drive. They react too late to things out of the ordinary because they drive that route everyday. It causes accidents and causes the mentality in the driver of "if that cyclist wasn't there like they usually aren't, I'd never have had that accident, damn cyclists!!!"


----------



## SantaCruz (Mar 22, 2002)

It's a car based society.
All of us have to live with the consequences.


----------



## mohair_chair (Oct 3, 2002)

You should have corrected the guy before you rode off: "Does this look like a motorcycle to you? I'm a cyclist, not a biker. Moreon." Then add, "No offense." Might as well get in your dig after he got his.


----------



## fontarin (Mar 28, 2009)

My wife and I had something similar happen. We were doing a charity ride, and a cop stopped traffic for us at a traffic light (we were honestly fine just waiting). Cars in front stopped, but someone behind them wasn't paying attention and rear-ended one of the cars that stopped. We felt a bit bad about it, but the cop was directing traffic and did wave us through, so we just shrugged it off.


----------



## bigbill (Feb 15, 2005)

I don't know about the laws where you live, but everywhere I've lived, a cyclist must be walking their bike in a crosswalk if they expect vehicles to stop. Some correct me if I'm wrong, but my understanding is that you are a vehicle and unless you have a green light or the other traffic has a stop sign, there is no requirement to stop for a cyclist riding in a crosswalk.


----------



## mohair_chair (Oct 3, 2002)

bigbill said:


> there is no requirement to stop for a cyclist riding in a crosswalk.


Yes there is. There is no law anywhere that allows you to run down someone because they aren't walking in a crosswalk. And there is a whole list of laws that say you can't. You have to stop, period. Walking vs. riding in a crosswalk is a distinction without a difference. And it's going to be completely irrelevant if there is ever an accident, because the overriding law is that you are required to avoid accidents if you can.


----------



## Scot_Gore (Jan 25, 2002)

bigbill said:


> I don't know about the laws where you live, but everywhere I've lived, a cyclist must be walking their bike in a crosswalk if they expect vehicles to stop. Some correct me if I'm wrong, but my understanding is that you are a vehicle and unless you have a green light or the other traffic has a stop sign, there is no requirement to stop for a cyclist riding in a crosswalk.


Here's Minnesota:

(f) A person lawfully operating a bicycle on a sidewalk, or across a roadway or shoulder on a crosswalk, shall have all the rights and duties applicable to a pedestrian under the same circumstances.

and in another section. 

Subdivision 1.Obey traffic-control signals.Pedestrians shall be subject to traffic-control signals at intersections as heretofore declared in this chapter, but at all other places pedestrians shall be accorded the privileges and shall be subject to the restrictions stated in this section and section 169.22. 

Subd. 2.Rights in absence of signal.(a) Where traffic-control signals are not in place or in operation, the driver of a vehicle shall stop to yield the right-of-way to a pedestrian crossing the roadway within a marked crosswalk or at an intersection with no marked crosswalk. The driver must remain stopped until the pedestrian has passed the lane in which the vehicle is stopped. No pedestrian shall suddenly leave a curb or other place of safety and walk or run into the path of a vehicle which is so close that it is impossible for the driver to yield. This provision shall not apply under the conditions as otherwise provided in this subdivision.

(b) When any vehicle is stopped at a marked crosswalk or at an intersection with no marked crosswalk to permit a pedestrian to cross the roadway, the driver of any other vehicle approaching from the rear shall not overtake and pass the stopped vehicle.


So, yes drivers are directed by law to stop for a bicycle in a crosswalk in Minnesota. As we all know, real life dosn't really work that way. 

We have an intersection of a road with a popular MUT. The road is two directions each way with a small curb cut divider seperating north and south bound motor vehicle traffic. Bikes and Peds cross East/West. It used to be marked as a crosswalk. There was a fatality at the crossing a number of years ago. A car ran over a woman on a bike. I heard through the rumor mill that the driver "lost" pretty heavilly in a civil suit, with the the weight of the two above ordinances being a big contributor. This didn't sit right in the eyes of the controlling municipality. The city paved over the crosswalk and put up big signs at the trail crossing that say "This Is Not A Crosswalk. Cyclist Must Yield". No driver will ever have to pay for plowing over anybody at that intersection ever again. 

To be somewhat balanced. Many, many (but not all) trail users treat this crossing with too little care. They blow through with almost no regard to conflicting traffic and expect motor vehicles to yield. I see it almost daily where a cyclist ahead of me cuts accross in front of a car that has to slow to avoid a collision. The other confusing part is that paint or no paint, many cars treat it like a sidewalk and stop, but the adjacent lane(s) may or may not, so you get allot of wait and see slow down from all concerned. 

Scot


----------



## JohnnyTooBad (Apr 5, 2004)

Brick,

I don't know what crossing this happened at, but I know that at Sterling Blvd, we always get people stopping in the right lane, even though there is no sign for them to stop for peds or cyclists. Then, the people in the left lane just keep driving along through the crossing. I always just say thank you to the driver that stopped, then wave them through because I don't want to get run over by someone in the left lane. And it usually makes it take longer to cross because now I have to wait for the stopped traffic to clear. Yesterday, I happened to get to that intersection while someone was already waiting to cross. When the driver in the right lane stopped, he started to cross. I held back about 10 feet behind him. The driver in the left lane just about slid into the intersection when they saw the cyclist at the last second (meanwhile, some idiot in the right lane was laying on his horn). Because that situation is so common, when I'm the only one waiting to cross, I usually stop way back, so that traffic doesn't see me and keeps moving, and I cross when it's clear.


----------



## vontress (Jul 19, 2009)

JohnnyTooBad said:


> Brick,
> 
> I don't know what crossing this happened at, but I know that at Sterling Blvd, we always get people stopping in the right lane, even though there is no sign for them to stop for peds or cyclists. Then, the people in the left lane just keep driving along through the crossing. I always just say thank you to the driver that stopped, then wave them through because I don't want to get run over by someone in the left lane. And it usually makes it take longer to cross because now I have to wait for the stopped traffic to clear. Yesterday, I happened to get to that intersection while someone was already waiting to cross. When the driver in the right lane stopped, he started to cross. I held back about 10 feet behind him. The driver in the left lane just about slid into the intersection when they saw the cyclist at the last second (meanwhile, some idiot in the right lane was laying on his horn). Because that situation is so common, when I'm the only one waiting to cross, I usually stop way back, so that traffic doesn't see me and keeps moving, and I cross when it's clear.


Yep! As OP said "uber-cautious". It's only wise to take responsibility when you know drivers are aggressive and don't understand. " dead is dead".


----------



## rmsmith (Feb 15, 2007)

Brick Tamland said:


> None taken. But since I was obviously the problem in the eyes of these drivers, I just headed on my merry way without so much as a word.


Years ago I worked for a repo shop in San Jose, CA. An office the next door over had long legged blonde who wore mini skirts as a rule. One afternoon we heard what sounded like a multi-car crash out front, so we rushed out to the sidewalk where we found a motorist who had just side-swiped a row of parked cars. Nobody was hurt, and he was calm, well dressed, so likely no money issues. Someone else asked, "what happened?" He smiled shaking his head, said some leggy blonde caught his rapt attention.


----------



## Guest (Aug 23, 2011)

> I don't know about the laws where you live, but everywhere I've lived, a cyclist must be walking their bike in a crosswalk if they expect vehicles to stop. Some correct me if I'm wrong, but my understanding is that you are a vehicle and unless you have a green light or the other traffic has a stop sign, there is no requirement to stop for a cyclist riding in a crosswalk.


This is true where I have lived as well (Arizona, California), and is what I've learned in both Drivers Ed training, and from my own reading of the law with respect to cyclists. 

On through roads with no stop signs but "yield to pedestrian" signs, vehicles are only required to stop if cyclists dismount and walk in the crosswalk. The law explicitly states that otherwise, the cyclist is considered a vehicle and not a pedestrian, and the right of way rules for cars apply (that is, cyclist has to wait until the roadway is CLEAR to proceed, legally). Unfortunately in practice, this isn't followed consistently at all by most cyclists. Consequently, lots of drivers don't konw what to expect from cyclists.

When I'm cycling in the roadway, acting as a vehicle trying to cross a road with a "yield pedestrian" signs, a large number of drivers will stop and try to wave me though. I acknowledge them and wave them to proceed. 



> I don't know what crossing this happened at, but I know that at Sterling Blvd, we always get people stopping in the right lane, even though there is no sign for them to stop for peds or cyclists. Then, the people in the left lane just keep driving along through the crossing. I always just say thank you to the driver that stopped, then wave them through because I don't want to get run over by someone in the left lane. And it usually makes it take longer to cross because now I have to wait for the stopped traffic to clear. Yesterday, I happened to get to that intersection while someone was already waiting to cross. When the driver in the right lane stopped, he started to cross. I held back about 10 feet behind him. The driver in the left lane just about slid into the intersection when they saw the cyclist at the last second (meanwhile, some idiot in the right lane was laying on his horn). Because that situation is so common, when I'm the only one waiting to cross, I usually stop way back, so that traffic doesn't see me and keeps moving, and I cross when it's clear.


This situation is probably my pet peeve with cycle commuting. I ALWAYS make eye contact and signal for drivers to proceed when they have right of way to do so, at crossings, multi-way stops etc. and only accept drivers' offer to "let me go" against right-of-way if they're the only vehicle in the area. 

Technically, if someone in the right lane waves someone to go against turn, which consequently results in a accident (say, due to the person in the left lane not stopping), the guy in the right lane assumes responsibility/liability for the accident. I'm not sure how courts would actually uphold that in the case of a cyclist, but that's why I don't wave people to go out-of-turn in situations like that when I'm driving.


----------



## SFTifoso (Aug 17, 2011)

Steve B. said:


> I had this happen once when a car rear-ended another car at a stop sign. First car started to go then noticed that 2 cyclists (me and a buddy) were in the way, and in the right (we had a thru lane with no traffic control). Once first car see's us and stops short, second car - thinking first car was going to proceed, slams into first car.
> 
> We ride along a 1/2 mile when an SUV pulls along side and a women screams out the window at us "You know you caused an accident back there" and drives off.
> 
> ...


BS Cars should always be ready to stop, no matter what... NO MATTER WHAT!! And I'm not some car hater either. Quite the opposite. I love cars, and racing (Formula 1). I drive a manual car in the USA, and trust me every time I change gears I always notice idiots getting way too close to rear bumper, because there's a slight pause in acceleration. Getting a DL should be really difficult; this is the best way to weed out the idiots.


----------



## Brick Tamland (Mar 31, 2006)

bigbill said:


> I don't know about the laws where you live, but everywhere I've lived, a cyclist must be walking their bike in a crosswalk if they expect vehicles to stop. Some correct me if I'm wrong, but my understanding is that you are a vehicle and unless you have a green light or the other traffic has a stop sign, there is no requirement to stop for a cyclist riding in a crosswalk.


The cars had already stopped in both directions before I entered the crosswalk. The rear-ending took place when I was approximately halfway across the road.


----------



## Brick Tamland (Mar 31, 2006)

JohnnyTooBad said:


> Brick,
> 
> I don't know what crossing this happened at, but I know that at Sterling Blvd, we always get people stopping in the right lane, even though there is no sign for them to stop for peds or cyclists. Then, the people in the left lane just keep driving along through the crossing. I always just say thank you to the driver that stopped, then wave them through because I don't want to get run over by someone in the left lane. And it usually makes it take longer to cross because now I have to wait for the stopped traffic to clear. Yesterday, I happened to get to that intersection while someone was already waiting to cross. When the driver in the right lane stopped, he started to cross. I held back about 10 feet behind him. The driver in the left lane just about slid into the intersection when they saw the cyclist at the last second (meanwhile, some idiot in the right lane was laying on his horn). Because that situation is so common, when I'm the only one waiting to cross, I usually stop way back, so that traffic doesn't see me and keeps moving, and I cross when it's clear.


It was at Hunter Mill Road - one lane in each direction. But I know the phenomena of which you speak, which is the reason I don't enter the crossing until all cars are stopped. I waive people through pretty regularly, as I don't want them to get rear-ended or get myself killed. That said, people always look at you like you're nuts when you waive them on....


----------



## Zombie John (Jul 25, 2011)

SFTifoso said:


> I drive a manual car in the USA, and trust me every time I change gears I always notice idiots getting way too close to rear bumper, because there's a slight pause in acceleration.


If you're in constant danger of being rear-ended while shifting, no offense, but it sounds like you need to shift a little quicker than that.

That shouldn't be happening.


----------



## SFTifoso (Aug 17, 2011)

Zombie John said:


> If you're in constant danger of being rear-ended while shifting, no offense, but it sounds like you need to shift a little quicker than that.
> 
> That shouldn't be happening.


Yeah, normally it's not a problem, but there's kinda nothing I can do when the driver behind me is in a rush and is constantly tailgating me. Usually only happens shifting from 1 to 2 from a stop.


----------



## edhchoe (Jun 3, 2007)

If the driver who stopped for the OP did not slam on the brakes, the person following was either 
1. on the phone
2. not paying attention 
3. following too close.
4. two or all of the above.


----------



## NUTT (Apr 15, 2008)

Brick Tamland said:


> That said, people always look at you like you're nuts when you waive them on....


I always pretend like I'm adjusting my shoe or something. Then they aren't so worried about it.


----------



## bubba biker (Mar 1, 2008)

My feeling was that getting out of there before the police showed up was the right thing to do. I was hassled by a group of teenage boys recently happened to pass them up the road I had gotten on a bike path that ran along side the road. When the light changed I started into the cross walk they raced up from behind me and tried to run me over. I got there license and called the cops. They pulled them over and took my statement. I was told that they had the right of way. Even though I was in a cross walk with a green light. Basically if the cops can side with a motorist they are going to do it and blame the cyclist no matter what the circumstance. At least that has been my experience here on the Colorado front range. I am done calling police on aggressive motorist. After doing it 4 or 5 times with the same result. The motorist can tell the cop " Darn straight I tried to run that f&*^t of the road" and the cops come up with an excuse why they shouldn't get ticketed.


----------



## votoms888 (Sep 14, 2011)

The only thing that frustrates me is reckless cyclists who take drivers and our ability to stop or see them for granted. I see this alot downtown examples like bike couriers zipping across three lanes of traffic in to the oncoming lane or riding diagonally through an intersection and all kinds of stupid stuff. However, I have always been respectful of cyclists and all drivers should be, god help you if you hit one. The moral and financial issues would probably kill you. It is surprising to see other drivers who have no regard for cyclists on our roads. I have seen drivers curse cyclists and even cut them off...I guess this is why our local government has put in so many bike lanes.


----------



## nhluhr (Sep 9, 2010)

I think it's unnecessary for a driver to stop when he has the right of way, which covers about 90% of MUP crossings.

Still, as the recipient of these 'kind' acts, I generally accept them gracefully. I fear the scorn of the drivers behind them though.


----------

