# Lower Back Pain



## Raw1417 (Sep 25, 2014)

Hello so here it is why does my lower back continue to hurt from riding my road bike? A little back ground info. I've been riding from a young age. (everything from mountain bikes bmx motorcycles anything with 2 wheels) When I got older it was mostly mountain bikes. I just resently went to a road bike and loved it but I always have lower back pain after about 5 miles which sucks cause I ride about 20 miles every trip. I thought I bought the wrong size bike I'm 5'11 inches and I bought a 63cm Denali road bike now I just bought a 57.5cm Giordano Libera 1.6 bought from Amazon still doesn't help my lower back in fact I feel like my back starts hurting a little before my Denali. Any suggestions that might help me with this problem or do just have to suffer through it cause like I said I love riding


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## tednugent (Apr 26, 2010)

I'm 5'10" and ride a 54cm frame.

Sounds like you might be over-stretched on a too big of a frame.


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## Sundog (Sep 25, 2013)

My guess would be that your bike is not set up properly for your body. In my town - $75 (plus the cost of the stuff you will need to change out) gets a custom fit with a talented pro. Best money that can be spent on a bike at any price point, IMO.

Or as the other fellow suggested - your bike is too big.


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## robt57 (Jul 23, 2011)

What is your inseam, crotch to floor barefoot? And what is the measurement from the center of your Crank/BB to the top of your seat in the middle?


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## rm -rf (Feb 27, 2006)

Do you keep your hands on the hoods, or do you always want to slide them back to the curve in the bar? If you do, it's still too big. You could try a shorter stem if so.

I only get lower back pain on longer steep climbs, where I'm *pushing hard on the pedals at a low cadence. * Otherwise it's never a problem for me.

Avoid high gears and "mashing" the pedals. If that's how you ride, try shifting one or two easier gears than you normally would pick. "Spinning" an easier gear is better for your knees, and might fix your lower back pains. And riding at least twice a week would be good.

*Cadence*
If you can see a clock or timer while riding: On flat ground, count the right pedal revolutions for 20 seconds, then multiply by 3 to get cadence (rpm). Many riders are around 90 to 95 rpm. Try for 80 or higher to start with.

*Seat height*
A good starting point is to sit on the bike and see if your heel just touches the pedal when its farthest down. Then when your instep is on the pedal, you'll have about the right amount of leg bend.


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## Raw1417 (Sep 25, 2014)

34" inseam and BB to top of seat is about 30"


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## Raw1417 (Sep 25, 2014)

75% on the hoods about 15% back on the straight part of the bar and 10% in the drops. I also only stand up when climbing and my hands stay on the hoods then. 

I try to ride easy until I get to apart of the road where there is a segment from my Strava app. 

As for my cadence I will be able to see it after friday when my monitor comes in the mail.

I think I got my seat set almost perfectly (from all the videos on youtube and blogs and what not) I'm still playing with the forward and back of it to get it where I'm perfectly comfortable.


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## Raw1417 (Sep 25, 2014)

Let me also say I'm 220lbs with a bit of a belly


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## robt57 (Jul 23, 2011)

Raw1417 said:


> 34" inseam and BB to top of seat is about 30"


I was thinking maybe your saddle may have been too high, But that seem like about OK. 

I was too high experimenting after an injury recovery, and got lower back issues when I git too high.

I have a 34.25" inseam and run about 31.25" to the top from the BB. I used to run lower for a while after the injury. Too high for me was 32 ish.

But it can depend on the pedal/shoe/cleat stack too...


How far is the nose of your saddle behind the BB, maybe too much setback going on??

You can find that out with a plum bob with the bike on a level floor.


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## Raw1417 (Sep 25, 2014)

about 3" to the front and about 8" to the middle of the seat. Done by eye real quick


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## tednugent (Apr 26, 2010)

you may have to change out your stem, to a shorter, with a large angle... so you can be more upright on a frame that overstretches you too much.

There is only so much you can do on a wrong sized frame.

you should really (as sundog said) get a fit done, and pay for the necessary parts. Or... they may tell you some bad news.... that they can only do so much with your frame size


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## robt57 (Jul 23, 2011)

Raw1417 said:


> about 3" to the front and about 8" to the middle of the seat. Done by eye real quick



Use a level or plumb bob. If 3" or more, try sliding saddle forward. This will effectively shorten stem obviously, have same effect. Raise the saddle = or slightly less then the amount as you move it forward as well.

Mark the rails and note the exact height so you can get back to exactly where you started.

Is your saddle level BTW?


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## Raw1417 (Sep 25, 2014)

the stem on the bike is 100mm x -10 degrees . I have ordered an 80mm stem should be here Friday. and I would get a fit done if I thought the bike shop guy was any good but our local bike shop I just don't think hes very good I took my old bike to him to get my gears adjusted and he never could get them but I did after watching a youtube video.


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## Sundog (Sep 25, 2013)

Trying to imagine how big a radius around my home town that I would search for a competent fitter. Easily a couple hundred miles. It is that important if you cycle with any degree of seriousness - IMO. I would say most often gettin a proper fit is a night and day thing - not a night and a little bit earlier that night kind of feeling.


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## brucew (Jun 3, 2006)

Posture is important on a roadie. 

Many people who complain of lower back problems plant their butt straight on the saddle--as you would with a more upright position--then bend their backs to reach the bars, rather than rotating forward on their pelvis. This tires the lower back muscles causing the pain.

An alternative problem could be a swayback, the back dipping as if pulled down by the middle. I'll admit to carrying at least an extra bowling ball in my middle's front.

You can get away with either on an MTB because you're up and down, in and out of the saddle more. For many, you aren't in the same position for an hour or two continuously as you are on a roadie.

So at a fitting session, or when riding with buddies, have someone view your position from the side. A straight back is a happy back. A bent back--straight up from the saddle, then arcing forward or a swayback--is an unhappy back.

If you or a fitter have fit the bike to a poor posture position, that will need to be remedied as well.

Finally, some "core" work may be in order. Muscles in the abs and flanks help stabilize our core, and by extension, our backs. Some core strengthening exercises may be in order. While we use those muscles in cycling, we don't use them enough to really strengthen them.

I hate core work--I have to dragged into it kicking ad screaming--but I recognize its benefit.

Look at all the other stuff folks have suggested, but if your back is bent while cycling, none of that other stuff will help until you address posture.


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## nsfbr (May 23, 2014)

Raw1417 said:


> Let me also say I'm 220lbs with a bit of a belly





Raw1417 said:


> 34" inseam and BB to top of seat is about 30"


So I'm 5'11" and have a 32" inseam. I ride a 56" frame (Scott L) and would find it reasonable that I've got 28" from the BB to my seat top. So I don't really think your seat is too high as a guess.

I do think your frame is too big, but possibly fixable. Before you swap out your stem though, try flipping it. Changing it from -10° to +10° may be enough to see if the reach is a big part of your remaining problem. 

I'm hoping you listen to the previous advice about finding a good fitter. In case you insist on the self/trial and error approach here is a sequence that was used on my (by my fitter):

1. Cleat adjustment. He moved the cleats outward and made sure they were under the balls of my feet. The outward move is because I have narrow hips (who knew?) and this has proved much more comfortable. 

2. Saddle adjustment 1. A combination of getting my seat height correct (lower, to achieve ~30° angle in my knee with my hips level and my pedal at the bottom of travel, front back positioning to get my knee over the pedal spindle when the crank is horizontal, and tilt, to get me to stay in the right place. He actually found a very, very slight downward tilt to work for me.

3. Reach adjustment. I too had a downward tilting stem, although mine is 110mm. Instead of changing it to a shorter one, he just flipped it. I use all the spacers. (This was a huge thing! I can't stress enough how much of a difference it made.)

4. Iterations of small changes in the saddle to dial things in. We did a sequence of things in small amounts intermixed with me riding on the trainer that the bike was put on for the fitting. I moved from tops to hoods to drops back and forth. 

5. Learning how to ride to keep my back straight. One of the things my guy did was watch me on the bike and explain to me some of the things I've learned to do wrong. Biggest was that my back looked like a C turned on its side. That is wrong, and bad for your back. This was, in part, because I was compensating for my too high saddle by not rotating my pelvis enough, which caused my back to start out pointing upwards, which then needed to curve forwards for my too long a reach. Whew, long sentence there. The point is that a big part of what I got was to have someone with knowledge give me the feedback I needed so that now I know what I should be doing and where the misfit I had was driving me in the wrong direction. So now, I don't have to stretch to pedal, my pelvis is free to rotate forward, my back is able to lie flatter (Not perfectly so, I'm 51, not 31.) and I've got nice big bends in my elbows. And I'll just say that getting to a flatter back took time and a lot of focus to both build my core and to unlearn bad habits. Now it comes more naturally, but I still do think about keeping good form.

What is interesting is that I can now tell when I'm a bit tight starting out on a cold morning and take the first 10 minutes of my ride to slowly get everything stretched out before getting into the drops. Once I'm warm and loosened up, the drops are my preferred position, just because it is relaxed and efficient. Never thought that would be the case 5 months ago, but it is. 

Good luck. I recommend the fitter route, but if you don't, or won't, at least remember to this of this as holistically as possible. The fitting is to allow you to be in the right position - one that is comfortable and strong. Just so you know, the length post is intended to illustrate how a recent newbie learned just how important the fitting process is. I rode MTB for a long, long time. That came much more naturally to me. However, now that I fit my bike and put 100-160 miles a week on it, I will never go back.


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## AndrwSwitch (May 28, 2009)

I paid for a bike fit several years ago. It's some of the best money I've ever spent on cycling, and you should definitely consider it. I think I paid about $100, and then some more for the fancy insoles I continue to use in my cycling shoes and for a different stem and its installation. You can pay a lot more and get lasers and video cameras and stuff. I'm not sold that that's really that important. You can sometimes pay less to have some guy eyeball your setup adjust your seatpost, and send you on your way. I think that having it be my bike, and riding it on a trainer in front of the fit guy were important.

There are also some great resources on the 'net for helping you help yourself. I particularly like this article.
How to Fit a Bicycle

I feel like a lot of the time when people ask about bike fit or training or something on a forum, they get a lot of discrete tips. Which can be useful but I also think they need to be put in context. I like the article in the link above because I think its cohesive. Maybe you'll still want to read about trees later; try to start with the forest.

If your XC bike doesn't hurt you, you're doing something right. So you might also look at the difference in riding position from your XC bike to your road bike. If you only ride DH bikes, they're probably too different to be useful.

A lot of mountain bikers believe that their road riding position should be very different from their MTB position. It's a different sport, right? I had that attitude myself when I bought my first road bike. It took paying a fitter (and arguing with him) for me to let go of that. While I do set up my MTB a little more upright than my road bike, I think they're more alike than different. It's tricky because there's not much you can measure and compare directly, but they should feel really similar. After all, on both, the principal activity is pedaling. MTB is more dynamic, and I find it more forgiving of not quite nailing an optimal fit, and I spend more time coasting and sometimes want to pop up or float my front wheel, but I find that stuff more on the level of differences between two similar activities.

My off the cuff reaction to lower back pain is that you're in too low a riding position. That can be bars too low or bars too far. I won't pretend to know. Read the article, give it a shot, and if you're not getting anywhere, try a fitter.


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## obed (Jan 12, 2014)

sounds like the bike is too large...too long a top tube, combine that with a negative angle on the stem and you are reaching too far causing lower back pain. get a good fit and see if the bike can be made to fit you.


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## fishboy316 (Feb 10, 2014)

To echo the many previous folks, Get a fit done. Go a far as you need to! I almost gave up a real nice S5 cause it was not fit correctly. Got a fit done and was like a different bike! Worth every penny! Sounds like the frame may be a bit large but they may be able to do some miracle work with it.
Good luck!


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## Raw1417 (Sep 25, 2014)

Well I want to thank everyone who has replied. I think with all the advise I've gotten I'll be fine. I'm going to get a bike fit next week from a shop I never knew was in my town. Drove past it many of times but never knew it was there. Plus with the shorter stem coming in the mail today, and the core workouts I started doing last night. Its only a matter of time till the pain goes away. Again THANK YOU everyone.


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## Natedogz (Aug 25, 2010)

Raw1417 said:


> Let me also say I'm 220lbs with a bit of a belly





brucew said:


> Posture is important on a roadie.
> 
> Many people who complain of lower back problems plant their butt straight on the saddle--as you would with a more upright position--then bend their backs to reach the bars, rather than rotating forward on their pelvis. This tires the lower back muscles causing the pain.
> 
> ...


Yes, core strengthening, stretching, weight loss, weight lifting (not necessarily heavy weights), and diet change are huge here. Also need to ride at least twice per week, preferably more.



AndrwSwitch said:


> I paid for a bike fit several years ago. It's some of the best money I've ever spent on cycling, and you should definitely consider it. I think I paid about $100, and then some more for the fancy insoles I continue to use in my cycling shoes and for a different stem and its installation. You can pay a lot more and get lasers and video cameras and stuff. I'm not sold that that's really that important. You can sometimes pay less to have some guy eyeball your setup adjust your seatpost, and send you on your way. I think that having it be my bike, and riding it on a trainer in front of the fit guy were important.
> 
> There are also some great resources on the 'net for helping you help yourself. I particularly like this article.
> How to Fit a Bicycle
> ...


Great info, I will check your link tonight thanks!



Raw1417 said:


> Well I want to thank everyone who has replied. I think with all the advise I've gotten I'll be fine. I'm going to get a bike fit next week from a shop I never knew was in my town. Drove past it many of times but never knew it was there. Plus with the shorter stem coming in the mail today, and the core workouts I started doing last night. Its only a matter of time till the pain goes away. Again THANK YOU everyone.


Good! UPdates please?


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## Raw1417 (Sep 25, 2014)

ok so up date is the new stem I ordered was way to big for my handle bars. Price I pay for trying to be cheap. The bike fit was good I only got to ride about 3 times before I got hit by a car making a right hand turn. He turned right into me the side of me I ended up on the hood of the car and my bike ended up under it. I just ordered a new bike from the bike shop and it comes with a free fit upon its arrival. Sucks but I got a lighter and I was told a better bike. And the bike shop even gave my a discount on my smashed up bike as trade.


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## Sundog (Sep 25, 2013)

Glad you are OK. Hope the new bike is really something cool and works well for you.

When buying something like a stem, or bars or a seat - I think that it makes no sense to buy from anywhere but a good LBS - with a good fitter on staff. You know the guy is going to install it for you - probably for no extra charge - and he's going to check your fit when he's done. At least that is the way the shop that I patronize does things.

If the stem at the shop is double the price of what you can find it on line for, it is still a great deal to buy from LBS, IMO.


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## NJBiker72 (Jul 9, 2011)

I think two things, both of which have been touched upon.

1. Fit. Go to a shop. I started on a Denali too, mine is too small. They are a cheap mistake. Works well on the trainer. Probably once you knew you liked the sport, you should have gone to a shop, bought the right size and got fitted. Ok, missed on the first part, but a good shop can still likely make that bike work for you if you choose to.

2. Stretching and Core Work. I don't like it either but it helps. Something like Yoga, Pilates can be a good way to get it. Lots of articles out there. Find something you do not detest. I have a couple of yoga DVD's and a circuit training DVD, which I try and mix in. Definitely helps, when I do it.


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## Shuffleman (Sep 4, 2013)

Raw1417 said:


> Let me also say I'm 220lbs with a bit of a belly


I think that if you sum up what most of this board is saying it would boil down to two things:
1) Go to a lbs and get a fitting. You should be able to get this done for $50-$75. It is really hard for any of us to determine if your bike is too big or not over the internet. A fit will do wonders. It may be that your bike is fine and that it is a simple thing like moving your seat or changing out the stem. It is worth the money.
2) Don't underestimate the value of being in shape. Riding bikes is great for fitness but it does not mean that only riding is necessary. Some core work will do wonders for you, not just in riding either. 
Spend 20 minutes a day doing some simple core work and it will do wonders for you.


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## 41ants (Jul 24, 2007)

You can get a fit, but don't be surprised to learn that your bike is just too big. 
5'11 on a 63cm frame is just ridiculous and even on a 57cm frame it could be a bit of a stretch. Once you get that sorted out you may find core workouts and yoga helpful.


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## AndrwSwitch (May 28, 2009)

57 doesn't sound too bad.

Lots of people my height (5'8") ride 55s. I like a 52, but every body and frame is different.

Maybe it'll take the third bike for the OP to really nail it. But I wouldn't be surprised if this one is at least good enough for him to explore road cycling and figure out what the long-term bike really is.


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