# S-Works SL4 Frame



## joshs (Mar 26, 2009)

Went to the shop today and my frame was waiting.
14lbs 8 oz.


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## dc503 (Mar 15, 2011)

Looks great, nice build. Have you been able to ride it yet?


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## joshs (Mar 26, 2009)

No ride as of yet, Tuesday should be it's first ride.


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## spartanbike (Mar 8, 2009)

great looking ride.

size/weight of frame/fork ?


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## Rugergundog (Apr 2, 2011)

i got the white one coming in  looks great!


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## joshs (Mar 26, 2009)

spartanbike said:


> great looking ride.
> 
> size/weight of frame/fork ?


it's a 56, Didn't get a chance to weight just the frame/fork


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## joshs (Mar 26, 2009)

Ride Report:
The thing is Awesome! 
For reference I came from a 2009 Tarmac Pro SL, then to a 2011 Tarmac S-Works SL3. 
The SL3 was definitely stiffer then the SL, But also noticeably harsher to ride. Really felt like the SL just more uncomfortable. 
The SL4 is a totally different animal. When you apply an oscillating force on the Z axis perpendicular to the X-Y Axis of the tup tube and fork, which ultimately causes a bending moment along an imaginary plane drawn between the headtube and rear drop out in most bikes (when you shake the handlebars back and forth while riding.) The frame resists the action with an acceptable deflection (it doesn't move much). Where the SL3 and SL would deflect quite a bit, On the SL4 it is actually hard to twist the frame. 
I also noticed the SL3 was a noisy bike to ride, the SL4 is very quiet, It seems to dampen much of the road noise. It is very responsive, but also incredibly smooth, The smoothest bike I've ridden.


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## NealH (May 2, 2004)

Good short report. I have an SL3, and previously had the SL2. I'm tempted to get the SL4. I have been wondering how the ride compares to the SL3, for instance is it noticeably smoother. It appears that it is given your comments. I've read that the rear end is about the same but, the front is more compliant.


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## StillKeen (Oct 4, 2005)

that is a huge loop on the rear derailleur cable as it goes into the derailleur.


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## GTR2ebike (Jun 30, 2011)

Just curious is that your S-works 29er HT on the rack?


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## joshs (Mar 26, 2009)

StillKeen said:


> that is a huge loop on the rear derailleur cable as it goes into the derailleur.


I'd rather have a larger loop then worry about the cable binding. I could probably trip a little off but I've run into an issue on the epic where the shifting is very slow because the cable bends are too tight



GTR2ebike said:


> Just curious is that your S-works 29er HT on the rack?


No Mine is identical except that is a 17.5 mine is a 19 and a few other details.


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## clayton.cole23 (Feb 25, 2011)

joshs said:


> I'd rather have a larger loop then worry about the cable binding. I could probably trip a little off but I've run into an issue on the epic where the shifting is very slow because the cable bends are too tight
> 
> 
> Yeah, but it looks like a Mack Truck took a u-turn. Nice Build though, thanks for the report.


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## Rugergundog (Apr 2, 2011)

You can take about 2.5 to 3" off your rear loop without slowed shifter performance. I have the same bike and found the majic length. The place your cable exits the der you want the cable to continue straight for about 1.5" before the bend starts and you will have no loss of speed in your shifts.

Not using the S-works seat post that came with your frame?


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## joshs (Mar 26, 2009)

It could be shortened, but at this point, It's there. I think I just pulled it off the SL3 and slapped it on the sl4. Plus if I ever need more cable, just need to shorten the housing. 

it works better for me to have a no setback seat post, Plus it saves about 60g. The S-works seat post would be more comfortable though(flex).


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## rcjunkie3000 (Sep 5, 2009)

Nice Sworks sl4. Just curious, is the red paint the same as last years that looks bright neon orange in the sun or is it now less flourescent? Its usually hard to tell on the website. Thanks.


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## joshs (Mar 26, 2009)

The red is more normal, not like the fluorescent stuff they had last year.


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## Rugergundog (Apr 2, 2011)

Oddly that extra long loop may be doing just the opposite of what you hoped by creating more internal friction and slowing your shifting...enough to notice, that i cant say.

There are models with the neon red though most are now the regular scarlet red. Though the neon red is eye catching and all it has been an issue; to the extend that if you have followed other threads resulted in the warranty of a flawless SL3 frame of mine to a SL4...neon turned pink


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## rcjunkie3000 (Sep 5, 2009)

joshs said:


> The red is more normal, not like the fluorescent stuff they had last year.


Thanks I'm considering one. I hope my LBS doesnt charge full MSRP. Do you know a place that sells these way below MSRP. My LBS will price match.


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## serious (May 2, 2006)

joshs said:


> Ride Report:
> The thing is Awesome!
> For reference I came from a 2009 Tarmac Pro SL, then to a 2011 Tarmac S-Works SL3.
> The SL3 was definitely stiffer then the SL, But also noticeably harsher to ride. Really felt like the SL just more uncomfortable.
> ...


I really doubt that BB stiffness is so different that a rider can tell, let alone as much as you indicate!


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## joshs (Mar 26, 2009)

Rugergundog said:


> Oddly that extra long loop may be doing just the opposite of what you hoped by creating more internal friction and slowing your shifting...enough to notice, that i cant say.
> 
> There are models with the neon red though most are now the regular scarlet red. Though the neon red is eye catching and all it has been an issue; to the extend that if you have followed other threads resulted in the warranty of a flawless SL3 frame of mine to a SL4...neon turned pink


You could say the same for ski's, but speed skis are long. 

It's fine, leave it alone. The bike works fine and rides great, I futz with it


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## RkFast (Dec 11, 2004)

serious said:


> I really doubt that BB stiffness is so different that a rider can tell, let alone as much as you indicate!


I tend to agree. My SL3 does not "deflect quite a bit", to say the least.


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## joshs (Mar 26, 2009)

> I really doubt that BB stiffness is so different that a rider can tell, let alone as much as you indicate!


I said nothing about BB stiffness, The bb seemed about the same to me.


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## joshs (Mar 26, 2009)

rcjunkie3000 said:


> Thanks I'm considering one. I hope my LBS doesnt charge full MSRP. Do you know a place that sells these way below MSRP. My LBS will price match.


Not too sure, My shop sells them at the minimum advertised sales price


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## joshs (Mar 26, 2009)

GTR2ebike said:


> Just curious is that your S-works 29er HT on the rack?


these are mine:
Started out as:








Now








Just waiting on my 12' MTB frames


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## wsmc42 (Jul 21, 2011)

joshs said:


> these are mine:
> Started out as:
> 
> 
> ...


Dude, Nice stable! :thumbsup:
Off topic question...Do you have a favorite between the epic and HT? I want a new mtn bike for next years race season and Have been thinking about these two options. I'm thinking if I keep my current stumpjumper fsr then I will go hard tail for racing. I'm just not sure it makes sense to have two bikes when the epic is so good and serves two purposes. I know in the end I will have to make the decision, I just want opinions from people who have both or have at least ridden both.


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## RkFast (Dec 11, 2004)

Im still not getting where youre saying the SL3 deflected. Im not seeing that.


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## joshs (Mar 26, 2009)

In the head tube area, on any bike, as you ride if you shake the handlebars side to side, the bike will flex. What you are trying to do to is basically twist the top tube and bottom tube between the HT and seat tube. The amount of flex (delfection) on the SL4 is less the the SL3. Far less then my MTB bikes and the Hard tail has a similar shaped HT area.


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## nis240sxt (Oct 6, 2004)

Nice bike joshs:thumbsup: Yes, this is part of torsional stiffness and according to Specialized the sl4 has improved about 16% over the SL3 in this category while BB stiffness is barely better. Seems like joshs has substantiated this subjectively to match spesh's claims. Can't wait to throw my leg over the SL4 and i'm coming from an SL2 comp so I should really be able to tell a difference!


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## diegogarcia (Apr 29, 2010)

serious said:


> I really doubt that BB stiffness is so different that a rider can tell, let alone as much as you indicate!


You should. The SL4 has a stiffer BB area where as the head tube area is less harsh than the SL3 -by design. HTC ironically had a big input on the SL4 ride design. It's a step up and akin to the Cervelo R5 as a climber now.


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## serious (May 2, 2006)

diegogarcia said:


> You should. The SL4 has a stiffer BB area where as the head tube area is less harsh than the SL3 -by design. HTC ironically had a big input on the SL4 ride design. It's a step up and akin to the Cervelo R5 as a climber now.


Exactly the opposite of what the OP said. Shows you how ridiculous some of these perception are.


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## diegogarcia (Apr 29, 2010)

serious said:


> Exactly the opposite of what the OP said. Shows you how ridiculous some of these perception are.


Perhaps, but that is the internet for you.

However, do note that I work for Specialized and stand correct in reference to where the SL4 has changed from the SL3 and the HTC reference is true in so much as they found the SL3 harsh and fatiguing on the front and it needed more in the BB area, hence the SL4. 

I can also advise that the Venge was designed solely for Cavendish in how he sprints in a fish tail manner rather than the usual hammering of the BB like other pro riders. Which in turn makes it a shame HTC folded as they are a valuable R and D tool.


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## BikeArmsRace (Sep 6, 2010)

diegogarcia said:


> Perhaps, but that is the internet for you.
> 
> However, do note that I work for Specialized and stand correct in reference to where the SL4 has changed from the SL3 and the HTC reference is true in so much as they found the SL3 harsh and fatiguing on the front and it needed more in the BB area, hence the SL4.
> 
> I can also advise that the Venge was designed solely for Cavendish in how he sprints in a fish tail manner rather than the usual hammering of the BB like other pro riders. Which in turn makes it a shame HTC folded as they are a valuable R and D tool.


Damn. You mean I have to ride like Cavendish's "fish tail" style to get any benefit from my Venge?

The front end of my Venge is much more harsh than my 2010 Giant TCR Advanced SL Rabo and 2011 LOOK 695SR. I'll have to ride it more, but I may have enjoyed a new SL4. The Venge just looks killer.


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## diegogarcia (Apr 29, 2010)

BikeArmsRace said:


> Damn. You mean I have to ride like Cavendish's "fish tail" style to get any benefit from my Venge?
> 
> The front end of my Venge is much more harsh than my 2010 Giant TCR Advanced SL Rabo and 2011 LOOK 695SR. I'll have to ride it more, but I may have enjoyed a new SL4. The Venge just looks killer.


Anyone can ride it and I was expecting a retort as such, it was merely advising how the concept of the Venge came to be in that they worked long and hard with Cav to produce the bike. Personally, I ride Cervelo S2, Specialized SL3 and a Cervelo R5 and I really, really want an SL4 it is something else.


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## rcjunkie3000 (Sep 5, 2009)

I want the sl4 sworks :thumbsup:

I can definitely feel the road and every little inconsistency on the road on my tarmac sl3 pro compared to my other bike. However, i love the way i can descend on it with its predictable manner. Still checking to see if i have a budget for an sworks sl4 for next year. Saving funds now!


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## bernithebiker (Sep 26, 2011)

I have an SL4 S-Works, but I was tempted by the Venge. This is how I see it;

Venge

Pros - a bit more aero, looks more bling, 
Cons - a bit heavier, harsher to ride (or so they say)

Sl4 

Pros - light, smooth riding, nice handling
Cons - not so aero, not so bling, a bit more old school look

I am very suspicious of aero claims for frames, especially Venge vs. SL4 and Foil vs Addict type claims. The Venge has the exact same geometry as the SL4, same size headtube. I find it very hard to believe that there is much of an aero gain between these 2 frames - in practice I believe it to be immeasurably small, and way, way smaller than your position on the bike. For example losing a 10mm stem spacer off an Sl4 would IMHO make it more aero than the same size Venge. Or putting a water bottle on a Venge would make it less aero than an SL4.

So, if that is the case (and it's JMO!) what are you sacrificing to get the Venge shape? Some stiffness and some compliance. We can assume that Spesh have tried to make the SL4 the best riding and handling bike they can at the lowest weight. Aero doesn't really come into it. For the Venge, compromises have to be made, and tube shapes have moved away from the 'optimum' to get some aero benefit.

Position is everything when it comes to aero, and if you cannot get low and straight, you are not going to be very aero, no matter what bike you ride.

Also, although I do the odd tri, TT is not really my thing, climbing, in the Alps and Pyrennees is, so the SL4 was a no brainer for me.

I do love the look of the Venge, and I'm sure it's an excellent bike, but you have to ask yourself what you are going to use the bike for, and unless you are a tri or a TT nut (in which case you may well have a full on TT bike anyway), then I tend to think you may be better off on an SL4.

i would love to see a head to head, Venge vs. Foil.


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## Arnoud (Nov 3, 2008)

There is a downhill comparison on Peloton Magazine. I will not spoil the film for you!

Peloton


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## joshs (Mar 26, 2009)

wsmc42 said:


> Dude, Nice stable! :thumbsup:
> Off topic question...Do you have a favorite between the epic and HT? I want a new mtn bike for next years race season and Have been thinking about these two options. I'm thinking if I keep my current stumpjumper fsr then I will go hard tail for racing. I'm just not sure it makes sense to have two bikes when the epic is so good and serves two purposes. I know in the end I will have to make the decision, I just want opinions from people who have both or have at least ridden both.


Depending on where you live, I'd say hard tail. I ride the HT way more then the epic. The HT feels almost as fast as the SL4. Also because of the 27.2 seatpost, the bike is very comfortable. Unless I am feeling really lazy or want to go slow, I ride the HT. Where I live is fairly flat and roots are the biggest issue I have to deal with. If i go to a rocky course I take the epic, because after bouncing around on the HT for 1.5 hrs, I start to get tired. But that being said, when I shipped a bike to leave up in Lake Tahoe I send an aluminum stumpjumper 29er HT, I thought I might miss the epic or the old stumpjumper FSR I had, but in actuality the HT handled the jumps and tight stuff better (I did stay away form drop off's though), I was actually passing guys on enduros. 

In short, the epic feels like a slouch compared to the HT.


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## joshs (Mar 26, 2009)

bernithebiker said:


> I have an SL4 S-Works, but I was tempted by the Venge. This is how I see it;
> 
> Venge
> 
> ...


Well said, I rode our shop's venge and I liked it until I took it on a back country road, then I couldn't get off it fast enough. I believe allot has to do with the seat post.


For clarification, I am sayting the HT is more responive and seems stiffer, didn't notice much on the BB. 

Two complaints: the front wheel seems to be closer to the crankset, I have hit my shoe quite a few times with the tire. 

On real bumpy areas, I can hear (i think it is this) the rear brake cable hitting the inside of the frame.


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## bernithebiker (Sep 26, 2011)

Arnoud said:


> There is a downhill comparison on Peloton Magazine. I will not spoil the film for you!
> 
> Peloton


That's an interesting comparison. So the SL4 and the Venge were well ahead of the other two bikes, due, presumably to their stiff, yet compliant frames (Venge less so, but more aero?), and race geometry.

But the Venge and the SL4 were less than a second apart, which is tiny, and surely within the margins of error. I find it frustrating that tests like these are not done more scientifically. Each bike should have been ridden a minimum of 5 times, in rotation order, so as to eliminate any improvement in the rider, wind, etc.

It would have been interesting to have done the same test back UP the hill. Then I reckon the SL4 would have won by a decent margin.

So to summarize the results of this test, the Venge and SL4 are better than the competition and very close to each other downhill.

I'm happy I chose an SL4!


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## bernithebiker (Sep 26, 2011)

joshs said:


> Well said, I rode our shop's venge and I liked it until I took it on a back country road, then I couldn't get off it fast enough. I believe allot has to do with the seat post.
> 
> 
> For clarification, I am sayting the HT is more responive and seems stiffer, didn't notice much on the BB.
> ...


The front wheel thing is due to the race geometry and short wheelbase, but isn't that different from most other bikes.

The rear brake cable has a fix - there is a Vimeo video somewhere mentioned here - you slide some rubber bumpers onto the cable inside the frame. I've done it, it works.


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## joshs (Mar 26, 2009)

bernithebiker said:


> The front wheel thing is due to the race geometry and short wheelbase, but isn't that different from most other bikes.
> 
> The rear brake cable has a fix - there is a Vimeo video somewhere mentioned here - you slide some rubber bumpers onto the cable inside the frame. I've done it, it works.


Well I'll be honest I don't like the race geometry, mainly the HT, Since I need the longest HT I can get. Damn T-Rex arms


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## Rugergundog (Apr 2, 2011)

I bet the BB area is the same. From my understanding that was not really an area of focus for the SL4.


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## bernithebiker (Sep 26, 2011)

joshs said:


> Well I'll be honest I don't like the race geometry, mainly the HT, Since I need the longest HT I can get. Damn T-Rex arms


Not sure I understand - if you wanted a long headtube, the SL4 is not the place to look - it has one of the shortest you can find, that's why I chose it.


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## joshs (Mar 26, 2009)

bernithebiker said:


> Not sure I understand - if you wanted a long headtube, the SL4 is not the place to look - it has one of the shortest you can find, that's why I chose it.


Well I didn't realize that when I ordered it at the dealer show, but at the same time it wouldn't stop me either way. It is just an annoyance.


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## fatdawg (Jun 9, 2011)

:thumbsup:


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