# Stage 11 Results - discuss



## Francis Cebedo (Aug 1, 2001)

Stage 11 - Wednesday, July 13: Courchevel - Briançon, 173 km
Results

1 Alexandre Vinokourov (Kaz) T-Mobile Team 4.47.38 (36.087 km/h)
2 Santiago Botero (Col) Phonak Hearing Systems 0.01
3 Christophe Moreau (Fra) Credit Agricole 1.15
4 Bobby Julich (USA) Team CSC 
5 Eddy Mazzoleni (Ita) Lampre-Caffita 
6 Lance Armstrong (USA) Discovery Channel 
7 Cadel Evans (Aus) Davitamon-Lotto 
8 Levi Leipheimer (USA) Gerolsteiner 
9 Michael Rasmussen (Den) Rabobank 
10 Georg Totschnig (Aut) Gerolsteiner 
11 Alejandro Valverde (Spa) Illes Balears-Caisse d'Epargne 
12 Yaroslav Popovych (Ukr) Discovery Channel 
13 Ivan Basso (Ita) Team CSC 
14 Michael Rogers (Aus) Quick.Step 
15 Jan Ullrich (Ger) T-Mobile Team 
16 Francisco Mancebo (Spa) Illes Balears-Caisse d'Epargne 
17 Jörg Jaksche (Ger) Liberty Seguros-Würth 
18 Andrei Kashechkin (Kaz) Credit Agricole 
19 Floyd Landis (USA) Phonak Hearing Systems 
20 Andreas Klöden (Ger) T-Mobile Team 
21 Haimar Zubeldia (Spa) Euskaltel-Euskadi 
22 Carlos Sastre (Spa) Team CSC 
23 Jose Azevedo (Por) Discovery Channel 
24 George Hincapie (USA) Discovery Channel 
25 Xabier Zandio (Spa) Illes Balears-Caisse d'Epargne 
26 Paolo Savoldelli (Ita) Discovery Channel 
27 Giuseppe Guerini (Ita) T-Mobile Team 
28 Leonardo Piepoli (Ita) Saunier Duval-Prodir 
29 Sandy Casar (Fra) Française Des Jeux 5.57
30 Sébastien Joly (Fra) Credit Agricole 7.32
31 Stéphane Goubert (Fra) Ag2r-Prevoyance 
32 Stefano Garzelli (Ita) Liquigas-Bianchi 
33 Oscar Pereiro Sio (Spa) Phonak Hearing Systems 
34 Chris Horner (USA) Saunier Duval-Prodir 

General classification after stage 11

1 Lance Armstrong (USA) Discovery Channel 41.59.57
2 Michael Rasmussen (Den) Rabobank 0.38
3 Christophe Moreau (Fra) Credit Agricole 2.34
4 Ivan Basso (Ita) Team CSC 2.40
5 Alejandro Valverde (Spa) Illes Balears-Caisse d'Epargne 3.16
6 Santiago Botero (Col) Phonak Hearing Systems 3.48
7 Levi Leipheimer (USA) Gerolsteiner 3.58
8 Francisco Mancebo (Spa) Illes Balears-Caisse d'Epargne 4.00
9 Jan Ullrich (Ger) T-Mobile Team 4.02
10 Andreas Klöden (Ger) T-Mobile Team 4.16
11 Floyd Landis (USA) Phonak Hearing Systems 
12 Alexandre Vinokourov (Kaz) T-Mobile Team 4.47
13 Jörg Jaksche (Ger) Liberty Seguros-Würth 5.33
14 Cadel Evans (Aus) Davitamon-Lotto 5.55
15 Yaroslav Popovych (Ukr) Discovery Channel  6.25
16 Andrei Kashechkin (Kaz) Credit Agricole 6.32
17 Bobby Julich (USA) Team CSC 6.37
18 Carlos Sastre (Spa) Team CSC 
19 Eddy Mazzoleni (Ita) Lampre-Caffita 8.46
20 Michael Rogers (Aus) Quick.Step 9.10
21 Haimar Zubeldia (Spa) Euskaltel-Euskadi 10.07
22 Georg Totschnig (Aut) Gerolsteiner 11.43
23 George Hincapie (USA) Discovery Channel 12.15
24 Giuseppe Guerini (Ita) T-Mobile Team 12.19
25 Jose Azevedo (Por) Discovery Channel 13.01
26 Leonardo Piepoli (Ita) Saunier Duval-Prodir 14.09
27 Stefano Garzelli (Ita) Liquigas-Bianchi 14.21


----------



## ttug (May 14, 2004)

*run Jan run*

the image says it all


----------



## Stinky Hippie (Jul 19, 2002)

*The big question I have after today....*

....is how well Rassmussen can Time trial. I don't see Lance dropping him in the mountains. Is the TT a mountain TT? (Lost my TdF guide)


----------



## bikejr (Jul 30, 2004)

*Not real strong in TT*



Stinky Hippie said:


> ....is how well Rassmussen can Time trial. I don't see Lance dropping him in the mountains. Is the TT a mountain TT? (Lost my TdF guide)


 He finished 03:14 back in stage one which was a whopping 19K TT

Not much chance of gaining any time there, in fact likely to lose a bunch..


----------



## wongsifu_mk (Mar 5, 2002)

*Disco Vino in 2006*

Courageous stage win not withstanding, if Walther Godefroot (sp?) really verbally sh!t on his team like he did after yesterday's stage (per Phil's commentary during today's stage) than I think Disco Vino may be even closer to reality.

That is unless he pulls an Ullrich and stays with TMob for the $$$.

Anyway, GO VINO GO!!!


----------



## PJay (May 28, 2004)

*peleton can't close downhill gap?*

help - fill me in on racing strategy or knowledge - it seems to me like the peleton should have been able to close the downhill gap at the end of today's stage.

they closed it to within 1min 15 sec.

shouldn't a decent-sized, skilled peleton be able to cruise a lot faster downhill? or did team disco have strategic reason for not catching the two leaders? (i.e.: safety, not bringing other challengers so close to overall lead of simultaneous finish, etc.).


----------



## Einstruzende (Jun 1, 2004)

Ok, so Vino let me down yesterday, but how about today! Great ride. Lotta guts. I'm sure magnolialover will still talk **** about T-Mob. Hell, even Ullrich didn't get dropped today! Good times.


----------



## thatsmybush (Mar 12, 2002)

PJay said:


> help - fill me in on racing strategy or knowledge - it seems to me like the peleton should have been able to close the downhill gap at the end of today's stage.
> 
> they closed it to within 1min 15 sec.
> 
> shouldn't a decent-sized, skilled peleton be able to cruise a lot faster downhill? or did team disco have strategic reason for not catching the two leaders? (i.e.: safety, not bringing other challengers so close to overall lead of simultaneous finish, etc.).


According to Sean Kelly on Eurosport...he thought a good solo decender should be able to hold off a peleton, especially a group like today that didn't feel like taking extra chances, just to make sure Vino didn't gap too much time.


----------



## Dwayne Barry (Feb 16, 2003)

PJay said:


> help - fill me in on racing strategy or knowledge - it seems to me like the peleton should have been able to close the downhill gap at the end of today's stage.
> 
> they closed it to within 1min 15 sec.
> 
> shouldn't a decent-sized, skilled peleton be able to cruise a lot faster downhill? or did team disco have strategic reason for not catching the two leaders? (i.e.: safety, not bringing other challengers so close to overall lead of simultaneous finish, etc.).


Probably two things: one the peloton wasn't chasing down the attackers only the Discovery riders were, two even the few Discovery riders setting the pace were just controlling the time gap and probably not really intent on pulling them back.


----------



## goose127 (Jun 9, 2004)

*I am not sure I liked today...*

Does anyone think that Disco and Lance should have put more heat on the other GC contenders on the last climb? The time gaps to the other leaders are really not all that substantial. I am sure Lance can have make up time in the TT to just about anybody but with those big climbs today, I thought they would try to put a little distance on Basso or the Illes Baleras boys. Maybe it was not worth it since the run in into the finish was so long after the final climb that any effort there would have been wasted.


----------



## Francis Cebedo (Aug 1, 2001)

These long downhill finishes are wasting these epic climbs! That's just too bad. 40k pedaling downill finish? It just discourages key efforts on these majestic climbs.

Tomorrow is more of the same. Hopefully, some action develops with that tiny hill near the finish.

The real action looks like Saturday and Sunday. Stage 14 and 15, wow!!

It looks like Rasmussen could have taken Lance today had it been a mountain top finish. The way he rode away from the peloton, so relaxed was very impressive.

francois


----------



## spookyload (Jan 30, 2004)

Einstruzende said:


> Ok, so Vino let me down yesterday, but how about today! Great ride. Lotta guts. I'm sure magnolialover will still talk **** about T-Mob. Hell, even Ullrich didn't get dropped today! Good times.


Had he not been over five minutes down, do you really think Discovery would have let him go like that? Nope, he would have finished with the bunch just like Ulrich. That was the first thing I said after Vino exploded yesterday. He was finally far enough behind where Discovery would let him go and he might salvage a stage win this year.


----------



## olr1 (Apr 2, 2005)

francois said:


> These long downhill finishes are wasting these epic climbs! That's just too bad. 40k pedaling downill finish? It just discourages key efforts on these majestic climbs.
> 
> Tomorrow is more of the same. Hopefully, some action develops with that tiny hill near the finish.
> 
> ...


...or he was allowed to go just for the KOM points.....


----------



## Alpedhuez55 (Jun 29, 2005)

I do not think Disco will let Vino go on another break like this. He is close enough where they will mark him from now on.

It sounds like an interesting stage but because some names like Herras, Mayo and Zubeldia lost big time again. Maybe they will try an attack for a stage win later.

I feel bad for Jens Voigt though. He did not finish within the time limit and I think is now out of the tour, a day after riding in yellow. I guess he copuld not stay with the Sprinter chain.


----------



## Francis Cebedo (Aug 1, 2001)

olr1 said:


> ...or he was allowed to go just for the KOM points.....


They definitely let him go... because there was no risk of losing time with the 40k downhill finish.

His form and speed looked awesome though. If he can break Lance on an uphill finish, things might get interesting again. That is the only possible scenario that can mix up the yellow jersey.

On last year's final ITT, Rasmussen finished 7 minutes behind Lance. This year, I think he will lose 5-7 minutes. 

francois


----------



## OS Romic (Jul 10, 2005)

*yes...he's gone*

*18:10 - Voigt Eliminated From Le Tour 2005*

The overall leader after nine stages finished the 11th stage in 168th position. Jens Voigt was the second-last rider in the stage to Briancon. Although he fought hard to stay within the time limit which is calculated on a percentage on the winning time, he has been eliminated from the Tour.


----------



## Francis Cebedo (Aug 1, 2001)

Alpedhuez55 said:


> I do not think Disco will let Vino go on another break like this. He is close enough where they will mark him from now on.
> 
> It sounds like an interesting stage but because some names like Herras, Mayo and Zubeldia lost big time again. Maybe they will try an attack for a stage win later.
> 
> I feel bad for Jens Voigt though. He did not finish within the time limit and I think is now out of the tour, a day after riding in yellow. I guess he copuld not stay with the Sprinter chain.



Yesterday, Jens Voight's legs detonated. I could hear it all the way to California.

I've seen that beast of a man ride a lot and that implosion made him ride like superman with kryptonite. He lost 31 minutes in one climb!! I was wondering how he was going to get it together today. Wow, bad news.

fc


----------



## ttug (May 14, 2004)

*what is this?*



francois said:


> Yesterday, Jens Voight's legs detonated. I could hear it all the way to California.
> 
> I've seen that beast of a man ride a lot and that implosion made him ride like superman with kryptonite. He lost 31 minutes in one climb!! I was wondering how he was going to get it together today. Wow, bad news.
> 
> fc


WHY is Vino working that way at the front when Jan is at the back looking like he is about to give up his lunch on the top tube of his bike??????

Am I wrong to assume that he could actually be SUPPORTING Jan?????????


----------



## wheezer (Sep 21, 2004)

*plenty of time ...*



goose127 said:


> Does anyone think that Disco and Lance should have put more heat on the other GC contenders on the last climb? The time gaps to the other leaders are really not all that substantial. I am sure Lance can have make up time in the TT to just about anybody but with those big climbs today, I thought they would try to put a little distance on Basso or the Illes Baleras boys. Maybe it was not worth it since the run in into the finish was so long after the final climb that any effort there would have been wasted.


there's plenty of time for LA to do further damage to GC contenders (remote contenders, at this point). LA has a comfortable lead. No need to blow up his team before the remaining mountain stages. i think all the GC riders were really just biding time today. maybe they'll wake up on Saturday and Sunday, because that will be the last chance to dethrone the man. at the same time, if he senses weakness over the weekend, _then_ you'll see LA put the hammer down on the GC.

who knows, with a resurgent vino and a recovered Jan mixed with some help from an aggressive Basso, it could turn back into a race before the weekend is up. doubtful, but it's still early. i bet Disco isn't popping any champagne yet.


----------



## DSR (Oct 10, 2002)

*Amazing...*

...what a difference a day can make. Vino was 5+ down yesterday and then 3 up today at the top of the climb? Good to see him put the pressure back on. 

Agreed that it's a bummer that an epic climb is followed by a 40k descent to the finish. 

As for Vino supporting JU, it appears that there are two "T Mobile" teams - the official one that supports JU (ie, Kloden pulling JU all the way up yesterday) and then Team Kazakh T Mobile of Vino riding in full support of... Vino. Notice how he hasn't been in the magenta/black T Mobile team kit in a while?

S


----------



## JBergland (Feb 13, 2004)

spookyload said:


> Had he not been over five minutes down, do you really think Discovery would have let him go like that? Nope, he would have finished with the bunch just like Ulrich. That was the first thing I said after Vino exploded yesterday. He was finally far enough behind where Discovery would let him go and he might salvage a stage win this year.


The is very accurate!!

JB


----------



## everydaybike (Feb 25, 2005)

ttug said:


> WHY is Vino working that way at the front when Jan is at the back looking like he is about to give up his lunch on the top tube of his bike??????
> 
> Am I wrong to assume that he could actually be SUPPORTING Jan?????????


 

Jan is one of my favorite all time bike riders but he always looks like he's ready to heave on the climbs. (Maybe it's a tactic to keep folks off his wheel...)

Unfortunately, he hasn't figured out that those big gears don't work in the mountains despite his strength.

By letting Vino get out on the break, at least T-M got a good solid stage win under their belt and Vino deserved the win. That was one good ride. My thought is why waste his efforts setting tempo and keeping Jan company when Jan can use the efforts of Disco to drag him up the climbs as always. Let Vino go and see what he can do while Jan shaddows Disco along with Rasmussen. If T-M had the leaders Jersey to protect it would be a different tactic but since Disco had to do the job, they took advantage of it. I think it was a good move.


----------



## wirespeed (Jul 4, 2005)

My thoughts on the stage:

* Vino put in an excellent ride for a great stage win. In winning the stage, Vino expended a lot of energy.
* Armstrong sat in the bunch and did little to no work (comparatively).
* Vino Gained 1'15" (plus time bonus for the finish).
* I personally believe that the amount of energy expended is dispraportionate to the time gained, but it's great that T-mobile will have something to take away from this tour.
* It was spectacular to see Hincapie with Lance the entire way. He's certainly become a fantastic rider.


----------



## wheezer (Sep 21, 2004)

*give that man a prize!*



everydaybike said:


> why waste his efforts setting tempo and keeping Jan company when Jan can use the efforts of Disco to drag him up the climbs as always. Let Vino go and see what he can do while Jan shaddows Disco along with Rasmussen. If T-M had the leaders Jersey to protect it would be a different tactic but since Disco had to do the job, they took advantage of it. I think it was a good move.



<img src=https://www.lock-man.com/catalog/images/pabst.jpg>


Vino hasen't done anything to sabotage T-Mob or Jan's leadership.


----------



## Minimalist (Apr 20, 2005)

francois said:


> Yesterday, Jens Voight's legs detonated. I could hear it all the way to California.
> 
> I've seen that beast of a man ride a lot and that implosion made him ride like superman with kryptonite. He lost 31 minutes in one climb!! I was wondering how he was going to get it together today. Wow, bad news.
> 
> fc


He said he was running a fever (104F) last night.


----------



## goldsbar (Apr 24, 2002)

Vino - it's great to see someone with some spirit (*cough*cough**Jan**) but attacking so early probably cost him any chance at the GC if Armstrong gets struck by lightening. My guess is he's blown for the rest of the tour. Hope I'm wrong as I like his style (at least from what I read on the Velonews ticker!).

I agree with the comments about a downhill finish after a big climb. What's the use? It just makes the top of the climb less important as there's no use in trying to get a small gap.


----------



## Jesse D Smith (Jun 11, 2005)

DSR said:


> ...what a difference a day can make. Vino was 5+ down yesterday and then 3 up today at the top of the climb? Good to see him put the pressure back on.
> 
> Agreed that it's a bummer that an epic climb is followed by a 40k descent to the finish.
> 
> ...


Absolutely. Vino is concentrating on padding his resume for teams seeking a team_ leader_, not a domestique for a German fan club.


----------



## mtbykr (Feb 16, 2004)

*I agree*



francois said:


> These long downhill finishes are wasting these epic climbs! That's just too bad. 40k pedaling downill finish? It just discourages key efforts on these majestic climbs.
> 
> Tomorrow is more of the same. Hopefully, some action develops with that tiny hill near the finish.
> 
> ...



You have to pick your battles and yesterday with an uphill finish was a great one. These downhill finishes don't make for good timing. Disco isn't going to push the pace on the climb just to see that lead possably dissapear on the decent. Disco isn't going to take chances on the decent, but play it safe---------------and you would get some GV contender taking a ton of chances on the decent and then the effort is wasted.

Rasmussen looks inhuman the way he is recovering----i am half expecting him to crack one of these days! (but hoping he doesn't) 

just my $.02


----------



## Len J (Jan 28, 2004)

*Those downhill finishes were intended to...........*



francois said:


> These long downhill finishes are wasting these epic climbs! That's just too bad. 40k pedaling downill finish? It just discourages key efforts on these majestic climbs.
> 
> Tomorrow is more of the same. Hopefully, some action develops with that tiny hill near the finish.
> 
> ...


Limit Armstrongs gains and hopefully keep the tour close. The whole aim of the tour organizers is to keep it close as long as possible. With LA's historic dominance on uphill finishes, they hoped that downhill finishes would allow other contenders to "catch up" some.

Len


----------



## peterpen (May 5, 2004)

francois said:


> On last year's final ITT, Rasmussen finished 7 minutes behind Lance. This year, I think he will lose 5-7 minutes.
> francois


This year's TT has a decent cat 3 climb in it and the enitre first half is uphill - I wouldn't be surprised if the Chicken only loses around 3-4 minutes. And if he's still going well this weekend, he very well could put 4-5 minutes in Armstrong. Both Saturday and Sunday are summit finishes - perfect for the Chicken. Poultry Power!!


----------



## MaRider (Mar 21, 2002)

peterpen said:


> This year's TT has a decent cat 3 climb in it and the enitre first half is uphill - I wouldn't be surprised if the Chicken only loses around 3-4 minutes. And if he's still going well this weekend, he very well could put 4-5 minutes in Armstrong. Both Saturday and Sunday are summit finishes - perfect for the Chicken. Poultry Power!!


I dunno... He was the only one of three riders who stayed with Lance on stage 10 who never went to the front to pull. He made a move today but only to collect the points from Moreau.
He can grind up the hill very well, but I just don't see him attacking LA, especially while Discos are around.

I also believe that the breakaway on stage 9 and the last two mountain stages are bound to take a toll on Rasmussen, and he will crack on one of the mountains.

I actually think he will only lose 2 min to LA, if he is still in contention for podium by then. He lost a lot of time in ITT in the past because it didn't matter. Now every second counts...


----------



## tube_ee (Aug 25, 2003)

everydaybike said:


> Jan is one of my favorite all time bike riders but he always looks like he's ready to heave on the climbs. (Maybe it's a tactic to keep folks off his wheel...)
> 
> Unfortunately, he hasn't figured out that those big gears don't work in the mountains despite his strength.


My guess is that Jan has tried to climb in smaller gears and his body doesn't dig it. Some people are just power climbers. I myself climb better (OK, less wretchedly) "Jan style" than "Lance style." Different riders, with very different bodies. And when Jan's on form, Lance is one of the few in the world who can hang with him.

--Shannon


----------



## OS Romic (Jul 10, 2005)

*Jan does use small gears.......sometimes*

here is a shot from yesterday............looks like his is in his lowest gear.......of course it's not as low as my Granny Gear........but he obviously isn't going up the Col in his 53/11

https://www.cyclingnews.com/photos/2005/tour05/tour0510/JD05tdfstg10007.jpg


----------



## snowman3 (Jul 20, 2002)

spookyload said:


> Had he not been over five minutes down, do you really think Discovery would have let him go like that? Nope, he would have finished with the bunch just like Ulrich. That was the first thing I said after Vino exploded yesterday. He was finally far enough behind where Discovery would let him go and he might salvage a stage win this year.


I haven't watched the stage yet, but yup, that's my take. I think the final descent after a big climb is anti-climatic as well. But it does "Lance proof" the race. There's fewer spots for mtn goat to blow things apart.


----------



## eleven24 (Aug 10, 2004)

That image kinda looks like JU during the climbs yesterday


----------



## eleven24 (Aug 10, 2004)

Normally I think the peloton would catch two leaders, but in this case Vino & Botero were flying downhill. If I remember correctly, I think Vino/Botero had about a 2:50 lead at the summit, and ended with 1:15.


----------



## jsnowut (Aug 5, 2004)

I'm not so sure about writing off the downhill finishes. Remember when Beloki crashed - those guys were racing and LA was under the gun. If LA was not so dominant, it's conceivable that a rider could throw it down on the climb and then hold onto the advantage on the decent. I think most of the contenders are riding defensively, believing (correctly) that LA will kick their behinds if they head out on the climbs.

As for the chicken - it will be interesting to see if any of the other GC guys can stay close enough to blow him off the podium on ITT. I think he's toast after the ITT. MUCH improved over last year though.


----------



## fastfullback (Feb 9, 2005)

*A fine display of peloton control.*

One man's opinions
1. Lance kept 4-5 teammates around him at all times so he could basically team time trial down the last 40K, boring but smart. 
2. Vino is lucky Santi Botero caught up and led him down, or he wouldn't have even gained the measly 1:15 on Lance for all of his effort. 
3. Stock up -- Hincapie, Vino, the Iles Belears boys, The Chicken; Stock even -- Botero, Moreau; Stock down -- Kloden; Stock cratered -- Heras, Mayo.


----------



## izibo (Jul 2, 2004)

francois said:


> These long downhill finishes are wasting these epic climbs! That's just too bad. 40k pedaling downill finish? It just discourages key efforts on these majestic climbs.
> 
> Tomorrow is more of the same. Hopefully, some action develops with that tiny hill near the finish.
> 
> ...


 Agreed... there are only 3 mountain finishes this year. It is an absolute joke IMHO.


----------



## Iwannapodiumgirl (Jun 26, 2002)

*flashback*

Hey Francois

Are you a high school teacher by any chance?

Your daily threads of "Stage <insert stage number here> results - discuss" remind me of my year 11 social science teacher's pop-quiz questions.

Great post though - always entertaining.


----------



## Francis Cebedo (Aug 1, 2001)

Iwannapodiumgirl said:


> Hey Francois
> 
> Are you a high school teacher by any chance?
> 
> ...


No, no. I run this website.

Thus, I'm a junior high teacher 

Just trying to make myself useful.

fc


----------



## Jesse D Smith (Jun 11, 2005)

*forum posters*



francois said:


> Stage 11 - Wednesday, July 13: Courchevel - Briançon, 173 km
> Results
> 
> 1 Alexandre Vinokourov (Kaz) T-Mobile Team 4.47.38 (36.087 km/h)
> ...



Anyone notice how once the race got interesting, and there were more substancial things to discuss aside from Kirsten's hair, etc. all the newly arrives guests from the politics forum suddenly lost interest in contributing to the discussion and returned to hashing out the worlds problems amongst themselves? Maybe their lurking and actually learning something about racing. Reading the NYTimes headlines, it's not likely. Thank you Vino, Lance, Robbie, Dave, and even you Moreau, for weeding out the ADD.


----------



## Shockee (Feb 12, 2004)

1/ Race was over yesterday -> Disco is fully in defensive mode from here out. LA will shoot for another stage win or two, but don't expect any risky early attacks from LA, if at all  

2/ Vino has no shot at podium due to a big crowd of ppl above him on GC, so stage win is the next carrot to chase. Stunningly hard ride for him. Next year's winner perhaps? Dammn hard stage: the 2 biggest mountains of any year's tour ... both on one day!!  

3/ JU and Kloden are still the hopefuls for T-Mobile. Too bad they are outgunned, but they have added nothing to the entertainment thsi year. Hello: sports is an entertainment industry guys! Do something already.  

4/ Get well Ligget! That rasp is making me cringe (though not as much as the American commentators). You're more valuable to the sport than any single racer!


----------



## Iwannapodiumgirl (Jun 26, 2002)

*sweet!*

OK - well, it's been a while since I've lurked around here yet I promise to play nice teach!

Keep up the good work.


----------



## Spunout (Aug 12, 2002)

izibo said:


> Agreed... there are only 3 mountain finishes this year. It is an absolute joke IMHO.


Look at the stage profiles coming out of the Pyrenees. Rolling, classics-type stages across the Massif Centrale. This race is still going to blow apart more in the third week. I would take that racing over an extra mountain top finish any day. 

Stages 17,18, 19 will be good, if there is anyone left to attack. This will make it very difficult for Discovery to maintain the grip over the race also.


----------



## ttug (May 14, 2004)

*who knows*



Spunout said:


> Look at the stage profiles coming out of the Pyrenees. Rolling, classics-type stages across the Massif Centrale. This race is still going to blow apart more in the third week. I would take that racing over an extra mountain top finish any day.
> 
> Stages 17,18, 19 will be good, if there is anyone left to attack. This will make it very difficult for Discovery to maintain the grip over the race also.


I hope there is some actual change in the race. Otherwise, I do not see Discovery having a huge issue keeping their place. Look how they are suffering now????????

However, its a young TDF yet.


----------



## utahsaint (Jun 8, 2005)

I think Lance has this down like a poker game, he knows when to run and when to hold...

I have a lot of respect for Vino riding alone for that long with no one else around. Too bad he didn't know how to decend very well and the majority of his lead was gone. Then he had to really push to win the stage.


----------

