# 1986 Schwinn Paramount



## Consult_your_directory (Aug 22, 2008)

Hello,

I am very new to the vintage scene and have always wanted a Waterford made Paramount. I thought I finally found one on eBay and right as I was going to make an offer the auction ended. Oh well, another will surely come along soon enough. My question is, was this a fair price for this bike? I was willing to pay the seller's BIN due to the fact that the bike was full Dura Ace, in excellent condition, a great color scheme and more importantly, it was my size! Given all that, would this bike be worth $1300? I know it is to me, but what would you say would have been a good price?

Also, what should I be looking for with respect to the old Paramounts? I know there were some made in Japan and they are good bikes in their own rights but I want one made in the USA. The Paramount is a bike I lusted after when I was in high school in the mid to late 1980s and even though I have a modern carbon bike right now (Pinarello) with full Dura Ace group but I would like an old steel Paramount with old Dura Ace parts to have fun on once in a while. I can't say that I would be reliving my youth but I can still ride it and imagine what it would have been like if I had been so fortunate back then. After all, isn't that one of the reasons for the popularity of the old classic and vintage bikes? I know that is one of the reasons for the popularity of vintage cars and motorcycles. Why else buy a vintage Porsche or Corvette when a new one will out perform the old by a wide margin? Don't even get me started on my 1942 RAF BSA M20! There are mopeds that out perform my BSA! 

The hunt continues.... :thumbsup: 

*The auction...*

https://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=120491935184&ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT



*The bike...*


















I would love to see photos of member's Paramounts and read their impressions of what it is like to own and ride these wonderful bikes. There is something magical about getting a vintage bike like this for little more than that which would get you a entry level bike right now made on an assembly line somewhere in the far east. Not that there is anything wrong with that...  

Matt


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## ThatsAPaddlin (Aug 13, 2003)

Beautiful bike, and I too shared this same bike lust in HS! I've still have the slightly cheaper 1988 Prologue frame (Japan Made Tange Prestige i/o your prospective Columbus SLX) that I got in new sophomore year. Similar Imron paint, but mines red/white fade. My riding buddy had a solid blue 1987 Paramount, full DA. We'd spend all day on those things pretending to be LeMond and Hampsten. Good times. 

Know what you mean about nostalgia - I still want the Prologue to be built up even though my full carbon DA mix Madone is objectively better and my usual steed.


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## Jimi_Lee (May 3, 2006)

Waterford keeps up a wonderful site rich with information on its origins. Paramounts that were outsourced to Japan were made by Panasonic and used Tange tubing. They were labelled with a "Series" and a number. That would be one way to tell the difference. Everything is explained here.

I have personally owned a 1988 Paramount. Compared to my other bikes, it had a really stiff and quick feel to it, too bad it was too small for me.

I would say that $1300 is more than I would be willing to pay for it, but one in that good of condition with low miles on the components may be worth that much. Personally, I enjoy the hunt and have built up my bikes starting with the frame and fork and searching for the components to hang and there is a nice white/pearl Paramount F/F on ebay right now.


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## st3v3 (Jul 25, 2009)

Those are really sexy. Really like the paint scheme.


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## tihsepa (Nov 27, 2008)

I see it sold for 1000.00 Well being a fan of steel bikes and DT shifters I would gladly pay the grand for that over a new bike worth twice or three times as much. When I say "worth" on the new bike I mean selling.


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## Velonautic (Jun 27, 2009)

*I rode that exact model that is on ebay and...*

It was one of sweetest bikes I ever owned. Unfortunately the 56 is not really a 56 and I had to pass it on as it was too small.


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## Scooper (Mar 4, 2007)

Velonautic said:


> It was one of sweetest bikes I ever owned. Unfortunately the 56 is not really a 56 and I had to pass it on as it was too small.


Schwinn measured frame size from the crank center to the top of the seat tube; so yes, a Schwinn 56cm frame would be smaller than a 56cm frame measured
from the crank center to the center of the top tube/seat tube intersection.


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## MerlinAma (Oct 11, 2005)

FWIW, I have an old black 58cm Paramount that has 7 speed on it. Shimano components essentially including some inexpensive STI shifters. Waterford factory built. Been thinking about converting it to a fixie but that's really unlikely.

I also have one of the last OS tubing Paramounts made at the Waterford factory that is a 58cm bike (by their standards). I put a carbon fork on it but still have the original. It's candy apple red and beautiful. Was never built up before I bought it. I put Dura Ace 10 speed (7800) on it and ride it primarily on Sundays.

Since everything is for sale, of anyone has a strong interest in either of these, send me a PM and we can talk.


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## onlineflyer (Aug 8, 2005)

As an alternative you may want to consider a Waterford -- same frame geometry, lugs and build as the Paramount but different (modern) tube set. From time to time they can be found on RBR classified or Ebay at great prices -- I know since I scored a Reynolds 853, Ultegra 10 speed equipped Waterford 2200 for $750. Terrific bike with great ride and handling characteristics.


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## RJohn (Mar 24, 2009)

OK. You asked for it. Here is my 93 OS that I bought new. It is a keeper. A lot of bikes have come and gone and this one is still one of my favorites.


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## JaeP (Mar 12, 2002)

To the OP I have the same version but made in Japan. The only differences between the Waterford Paramounts and the Japanese ones are; Japanese version had a unicrown fork and were brass braze whereas the Waterford Paramounts had a lugged fork crown and were silver brazed.


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## Dave Hickey (Jan 27, 2002)

cyclust said:


> I don't think so! The "japamounts" as I call them, were far inferior to the waterford Pmounts. The waterfords were high end, hand made classic steel frames that used the finest tubing, lugs, construction methods and finishes available, the japamounts were simply mass produced bikes that rode the coat tails of their namesake. For the money, they weren't bad bikes, but were not in the same class as the waterfords.



Don't underestimate the quality of the Japanese frames....... They also used great lugs, tubing and, contrary to what you say, they were hand made as well..

I understand the allegiance to the Waterford Paramounts but quality wise, the Japanese and US Paramounts were very close


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## cyclust (Sep 8, 2004)

I don't think so! The "japamounts" as I call them, were far inferior to the waterford Pmounts. The waterfords were high end, hand made classic steel frames that used the finest tubing, lugs, construction methods and finishes available, the japamounts were simply mass produced bikes that rode the coat tails of their namesake. For the money, they weren't bad bikes, but were not in the same class as the waterfords.


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## JaeP (Mar 12, 2002)

Dave Hickey said:


> Don't underestimate the quality of the Japanese frames....... They also used great lugs, tubing and, contrary to what you say, they were hand made as well..
> 
> I understand the allegiance to the Waterford Paramounts but quality wise, the Japanese and US Paramounts were very close


+1. I have both kinds of Paramounts in my stable and for the life of me they both ride the same but if you want to get technical the Waterford Paramounts are a couple of oz. lighter.


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## Slim Again Soon (Oct 25, 2005)

My brother-in-law has a dusty old Paramount in his garage. It has OS tubing.

I'm not knowledgeable on all things Paramount — what does OS mean?


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## MerlinAma (Oct 11, 2005)

Slim Again said:


> My brother-in-law has a dusty old Paramount in his garage. It has OS tubing.
> 
> I'm not knowledgeable on all things Paramount — what does OS mean?


OverSized tubing is what I was told. Thinner and lighter weight.


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## Scooper (Mar 4, 2007)

The Waterford website has several pages devoted to Paramount history, and the page "PDG in Waterford" has several paragraphs devoted to the development of the OS tubeset, which resulted primarily in lighter, stiffer frames.


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## Quattro_Assi_07 (Jan 13, 2006)

*This one is mine now....*

I initially bought it for the Dura Ace group and then to sell off the frame but I took it out today and although right at the edge of what I normally ride, I must say it is a very nice ride. I never really wanted a Paramount before but it sure does look nice in my stable I must say. :thumbsup: 

I am in San Antonio, Texas and we just had a front come through but the wind had died down so I decided to go for a ride. The frame and components are cherry. It shifted flawlessly as all DA 7400 does. Not a super light bike but no slouch either. I have one more day before it gets really cold here with possible snow flurries. I think I will take out my Dave Tesch built Specialed Allez Team and compare the two. It has exactly the same DA 7400 components and was made the same year as the Paramount. It will be interesting to see how they compare and differ. I'll post pictures afterwards of the two.

James


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## CurbDestroyer (Mar 6, 2008)

Dave Hickey said:


> Don't underestimate the quality of the Japanese frames....... They also used great lugs, tubing and, contrary to what you say, they were hand made as well..
> 
> I understand the allegiance to the Waterford Paramounts but quality wise, the Japanese and US Paramounts were very close


 If there is one thing the Japanese know it's Steel frames. They only use steel frames for Keirin.


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## Frreed (Aug 17, 2006)

I have a '92 series 5 PDG that is the best riding frame I have ever ridden. I was given a set of RSX shifter and eventually they crapped out. I got away from cycling for several years and the bike sat in the garage. 

In past couple years I picked up a Cannondale which rides almost as well and got back on the road. The PDG has been converted to SS and gets more than it's share of road time.


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## Muttley (Oct 12, 2008)

This thread needs more pics, lol. Here is my wife's and mine which I have posted before. But anytime someone asks to see some Paramounts I gladly will post again. 
The wife's Paramount is an '86 that I made retro/modern and gave it the pink treatment to make it girly for her. Mine is an '88 Wheaties/Schwinn team bike with Dura Ace 7400's with the uber cool Joe Bell paint job that he did for the team bikes.



































Mutt


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## OES (Jan 23, 2002)

Dave Hickey said:


> Don't underestimate the quality of the Japanese frames....... They also used great lugs, tubing and, contrary to what you say, they were hand made as well..
> 
> I understand the allegiance to the Waterford Paramounts but quality wise, the Japanese and US Paramounts were very close


Plus eleventy twelve. I bet a million bucks if if you believed a Japanese Paramount was US. made, you wouldn't look it over, get on it, and say 'Hmmm, something fishy here. This ain't a Wisconsin Paramount.'

But I agree, psychology does come into play -- a made-in-USA P does have more of the coolness factor. But I'd put a Japanese steel frame up against anybody's.


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## murbike (Jan 22, 2004)

My cycling partner in the early/mid 80's ordered a Wisconson Paramount. Very pretty bike.


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