# Why the Phil Liggett hate?



## Djudd (Jan 29, 2004)

Just noting a lot of disdain for Phil Liggett, why? He's still a great color commentator,imo. He established most of the english nomenclature for cycling and he is a font of cycling lore, very important for a sport with long periods repetitive relative inaction. The Lance thing? If everyone who backed Armstrong were banished from the sport there wouldn't be too many folks left. I say carry-on Phil and Paul your corny cliches make watching the sport fun.


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## robdamanii (Feb 13, 2006)

He's a sh!tty commentator. He can't get names right, he drifts off topic (senility is obviously setting in), his euphemisms are old and tired, and he obsesses over specific riders.

That, and his unwavering support of Pharmstrong was laughable at best.

Long live Harmon and Kelly. I'll not watch the tour on TV if they have the dynamic douche duo of Liggett and Sherwin on there; I'll take a small internet based feed from Eurosport online.


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## Chainstay (Mar 13, 2004)

Yes all that


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## LostViking (Jul 18, 2008)

robdamanii said:


> He's a sh!tty commentator. He can't get names right, he drifts off topic (senility is obviously setting in), his euphemisms are old and tired, and he obsesses over specific riders.
> 
> That, and his unwavering support of Pharmstrong was laughable at best.
> 
> Long live Harmon and Kelly. I'll not watch the tour on TV if they have the dynamic douche duo of Liggett and Sherwin on there; I'll take a small internet based feed from Eurosport online.


I have to agree. Phil is a great color commentator and I'll miss his calling the last km of each stage, but due to all the reasons listed above, I think he should retire after this season - let the 100th running of the Tour de France be his swansong.

That said, I'm not impressed by the potential replacements.


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## Cableguy (Jun 6, 2010)

It's one thing just not to like listening to him anymore, but the bashing of Liggett is pretty lame... he isn't as sharp as he once was, and might be due for retirement, but he's a nice person and has had such a positive impact on cycling and commentating. He's still pretty good at it too. It's comparable to watching one of the Wizard's games after Jordan's comeback, and calling Jordan shitty and a hack... get some damn respect.


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## spade2you (May 12, 2009)

I just see Paul and Phil as COMMENTATORS. I don't consider their job to be investigative reporters or anything beyond calling the play by play. 

Of course they supported Armstrong. They support virtually all winners and I don't think they've said too many unkind words about anyone. 

I suspect further hate is simply because middle aged males are surprisingly passive aggressive and emotional. Personally, I watch my TdFs with headphones during my indoor endurance miles and haven't heard them in years.


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## robdamanii (Feb 13, 2006)

LostViking said:


> I have to agree. Phil is a great color commentator and I'll miss his calling the last km of each stage, but due to all the reasons listed above, I think he should retire after this season - let the 100th running of the Tour de France be his swansong.
> 
> That said, I'm not impressed by the potential replacements.


The "american friendly" replacements are horrific to put it mildly. 

Again, <3 eurosport.


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## robdamanii (Feb 13, 2006)

Cableguy said:


> It's one thing just not to like listening to him anymore, but the bashing of Liggett is pretty lame... he isn't as sharp as he once was, and might be due for retirement, but he's a nice person and has had such a positive impact on cycling and commentating. He's still pretty good at it too. It's comparable to watching one of the Wizard's games after Jordan's comeback, and calling Jordan shitty and a hack... get some damn respect.


Jordan was shitty and a hack as a Wizard. A shadow of his former self.

He, just like Liggett, has no clue when to hang it up. I don't give a damn if Liggett is "a nice person" or what he did in the past. He can't do his job worth a damn now, and when you can't do your job, it's time to put you out to pasture.


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## El Scorcho (Dec 14, 2005)

I don't mind Phil at all but the guy has to go sometime. Harmon and Kelly need to be the go to guys for this. 

All the US announcers are terrible. Every single one.


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## Mapei (Feb 3, 2004)

When Phil and Paul aren't at their best, they sometimes have me laughing out loud, but I still appreciate them highly. Nobody else I've yet heard calls a finish or a hill climb with their accuracy, eloquence and passion. When the race is just rolling along and the two are forced to chit-chat, their chit-chat is seldom less than charming. True, they aren't quite what they were, and I do like Steve Schlanger and Go Go an awful lot, but those two ain't the kings _yet_.

As for Kelly, he's still pretty unintelligible to these ears.


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## Salsa_Lover (Jul 6, 2008)

I only watch my cycling races on the french and italian TV nowadays, so, no, I don't miss them at all.


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## Oxtox (Aug 16, 2006)

Phil and his schtick are getting very tired.

seriously, how many times can you get excited hearing about someone's 'suitcase of courage'...?

mis-identifying riders is not cool for a professional announcer.

need new blood in the booth.


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## spade2you (May 12, 2009)

Oxtox said:


> need new blood in the booth.


Check the Leopard Trek bus.


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## LostViking (Jul 18, 2008)

spade2you said:


> Check the Leopard Trek bus.


Indeed!


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## den bakker (Nov 13, 2004)

Mapei said:


> Nobody else I've yet heard calls a finish or a hill climb with their accuracy, eloquence and passion. _yet_.


I must have missed a few hundred Hincapie wins then.


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## wilki (Jun 9, 2004)

I truly hope that he is going away. The last Tour had me practically muting the TV due to his senility. He gets misidientifies riders more often than he is right. His catch phrases are used to death. And I am sorry but being a former mountain biker does not mean that they are going to be to be an awesome road descender. Also it is usually Pual not Phil that comes up with the good(or at least coherent) fill in facts and information. Personally, I much preferred watching Steve and GoGo at the Giro over Paul and Phil at the Tour.


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## 32and3cross (Feb 28, 2005)

spade2you said:


> I just see Paul and Phil as COMMENTATORS. I don't consider their job to be investigative reporters or anything beyond calling the play by play.
> 
> Of course they supported Armstrong. They support virtually all winners and I don't think they've said too many unkind words about anyone.
> 
> I suspect further hate is simply because middle aged males are surprisingly passive aggressive and emotional. Personally, I watch my TdFs with headphones during my indoor endurance miles and haven't heard them in years.


Because the have presented themselves as more than commentators time and again. The abused their position as one of the most heard voices of cycling to present a slanted story over and over.

Also they life content from other live feeds for the commentary without atribution, yet when another live feed messes up they will ridicule them.

They are both nice enough folks but the mindless support of Lance and a few other favorites combined with piss poor calls and mis-reads leaves a bad taste in the mouth.


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## C6Rider (Nov 15, 2008)

I usually watch the video feed, but listen to music instead. I have no confidence in Phil identifying the correct rider in a sprint, and sometimes he is completely wrong - ie, distance remaining in the race, or who is in the break.


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## bigmig19 (Jun 27, 2008)

C6Rider said:


> I usually watch the video feed, but listen to music instead. I have no confidence in Phil identifying the correct rider in a sprint, and sometimes he is completely wrong - ie, distance remaining in the race, or who is in the break.


I would LOVE to see you or anybody else get the names of 5 or 6 sprinters right when in full bore surrounded by 100 other riders with the same jerseys! No other sport compares to the 5 seconds of mayhem down the stretch of grand tour sprint finishes. He is old, and should retire now but holy cow I cant wait til some of you are his age. We will put YOU out to pasture and hopefully you saved all your nickels. Phil loved armstrong just like 99.99999% of the people on this forum. hypocrites all of you. Who hasnt been inplicated? Evans, wiggins, boonen, sparticus....thats about it. So, really we are all guilty of following someone who ultimately got pinched.


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## Cinelli 82220 (Dec 2, 2010)

Salsa_Lover said:


> I only watch my cycling races on the french and italian TV nowadays, so, no, I don't miss them at all.


Kelly was great on Paris Nice this morning. I can't see why people watch anything but Eurosport for English broadcasts.

It's not that I hate Ligget/Sherwen, rather why watch them when there is someone infinitely better?


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## locustfist (Feb 21, 2009)

Grew up on Phil. His voice will always be a warm blanket. It is the sound of summer in my home. I also grew up in Chicago while Harry Caray was starting to lose it and I can say Phil is in nowhere near the condition Caray was in his last 10 years.

As a cyclist, Harmon and Kelly are far better because they speak our language. I watch Eurosport more than other sources.

Like others have said, every single American commentator I've ever heard is horrible. Bob Roll? Awful. Frank Andreu...who told him he is any good at talking?


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## looigi (Nov 24, 2010)

robdamanii said:


> ...He can't get names right, he drifts off topic (senility is obviously setting in), his euphemisms are old and tired, and he obsesses over specific riders....


And some of his explanations/analysis are just wack. Paul Sherwen has to bite his tongue and does good job tactfully making corrections.

Bob Roll is a bit strange and awkward, but he knows what he's talking about.

Agree Phil Liggett's voice is like a warm blanket. It invariably puts me to sleep.


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## Cableguy (Jun 6, 2010)

bigmig19 said:


> Phil loved armstrong just like 99.99999% of the people on this forum. hypocrites all of you. Who hasnt been inplicated? Evans, wiggins, boonen, sparticus....thats about it. So, really we are all guilty of following someone who ultimately got pinched.


Yep the hate towards Phil for being fond of Armstrong is dumb for two major reasons, as you mentioned... 1) If you followed cycling starting in 1999, especially as a commentator, you had to be a fan of Armstrong at some point, 2) Cycling is a sport of dopers, both past and present, get over it


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## DonDenver (May 30, 2007)

*Wrong focus folks...*

...it's not Phil and Paul, it's lack of telemetry presented on screen. Producers of the broadcast need to incorporate data from rider SRM (and save me that proprietary argument as every rider and their physiologists know what everyone else is putting down on pavement) as well as GPS course and rider position. 

With that in place, I say, let me have the historical voice over hilarity that Phil and Paul provide much like many old time baseball announcers past their prime. Nothing beats yelling back at them during their "confusion" while laughing my butt off.

And, for full disclosure, I'm a Phil and Paul fan. My wife and I had an early morning coffee in Beaver Creek resort with them both after we walked Phill about the village to reunite him to his lost Paul.

So I say "long live them both" and "give me the on screen data for accuracy"


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## robdamanii (Feb 13, 2006)

bigmig19 said:


> I would LOVE to see you or anybody else get the names of 5 or 6 sprinters right when in full bore surrounded by 100 other riders with the same jerseys! No other sport compares to the 5 seconds of mayhem down the stretch of grand tour sprint finishes. He is old, and should retire now but holy cow I cant wait til some of you are his age. We will put YOU out to pasture and hopefully you saved all your nickels. Phil loved armstrong just like 99.99999% of the people on this forum. hypocrites all of you. Who hasnt been inplicated? Evans, wiggins, boonen, sparticus....thats about it. So, really we are all guilty of following someone who ultimately got pinched.


Cavendish, Goss, Greipel, Sagan, Farrar, Renshaw.

Pretty difficult, eh? After all, there's 100 riders contesting a sprint, right?


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## spade2you (May 12, 2009)

robdamanii said:


> Cavendish, Goss, Greipel, Sagan, Farrar, Renshaw.
> 
> Pretty difficult, eh? After all, there's 100 riders contesting a sprint, right?


Depending on the size of the screen and resolution, I sometimes struggle. Hell, I can barely tell teams sometimes with Universal Sports.


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## foto (Feb 7, 2005)

The Eurosport commentary is on a whole different level.


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## LostViking (Jul 18, 2008)

Confusion during the sprint? Yeah, of course.
Confusion during the normal course of the race? Yeah, of course - with Phil.

Time for Phil to call it a day re. TdF and the major races. He won't be unemployed if that's what people are worried about - I'm sure he'll have tons of guest/expert appearences - plus he does commentary for many different races - not just the big ones we see here in the States.


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## robdamanii (Feb 13, 2006)

spade2you said:


> Depending on the size of the screen and resolution, I sometimes struggle. Hell, I can barely tell teams sometimes with Universal Sports.


I don't think the video quality they're getting is nearly as bad as the sh*t that they pipe in via US.


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## rydbyk (Feb 17, 2010)

Not sure where I stand. I remember back when I was a young kid how the voice of Liggett would inspire visions of this far off land that "revolved around cycling" It was neat. Even today, after visiting Europe and watching the TdF in person, I still get those neat memories when I hear his voice. It is unfortunate that he has lost a step or two in his later years. Sad really...but expected, as nobody can go on forever doing what he does. I am not a fan of his LA fanboyism....although I gotta admit, it was fun to hear when LA was just becoming the man to beat in the TdF.

The replacements are less than exciting imo. Hmm..


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## kjdhawkhill (Jan 29, 2011)

Maybe I missed the 6 championships that PL won for doing color commentary...
Its not comparable. Color commentary is about style and entertainment, personal taste and is very subjective.

Jordan is ("argued to be" the only subjective) the greatest player of all time. And he won a lot of games (objective). Entertainment was an afterthought while MJ was on the court. Winning was the thought. 

PL should be compared to the Marv Alberts of the world - entertaining, with a seedy side and now, past their prime.


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## robdamanii (Feb 13, 2006)

kjdhawkhill said:


> Maybe I missed the 6 championships that PL won for doing color commentary...
> Its not comparable. Color commentary is about style and entertainment, personal taste and is very subjective.
> 
> Jordan is ("argued to be" the only subjective) the greatest player of all time. And he won a lot of games (objective). Entertainment was an afterthought while MJ was on the court. Winning was the thought.
> ...


Marv was MUCH more entertaining, what with the biting hookers' backs and all.


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## LostViking (Jul 18, 2008)

rydbyk said:


> Not sure where I stand. I remember back when I was a young kid how the voice of Liggett would inspire visions of this far off land that "revolved around cycling" It was neat. Even today, after visiting Europe and watching the TdF in person, I still get those neat memories when I hear his voice. It is unfortunate that he has lost a step or two in his later years. Sad really...but expected, as nobody can go on forever doing what he does. I am not a fan of his LA fanboyism....although I gotta admit, it was fun to hear when LA was just becoming the man to beat in the TdF.
> 
> The replacements are less than exciting imo. Hmm..


Agree - I like Phil, but it's becoming clear that his career is at its sunset - as will happen to all of us - and it's better to quit while you are still at least close to your peak than to wait until people are clambering for you to go. Phil was great in his time, and looking away from his Armstrong toadyism, was the best out there. You can't take that away from him. 

Times are changing in cycling (I hope) and the old way is going to have go. Unfortunetly, Phil is intimately associated with the old way - his kow-towing to the Lance myth is symbolic of that - I for one would like to see a graceful exit for Phil.

As I wrote previously, this 100th Tour de France would be an excellent chance for Phil to make a graceful exit. Should he wait, I suspect he will be remembered less fondly.


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## captain stubbing (Mar 30, 2011)

think the paul/phil combo are great for people who don't know much about cycling....they are enthusiastic and entertaining but really do get an awful lot of things wrong during a call and repeat the same cliches adnauseum.....i'm sure they have a list that they must get through each race.

much prefer the guys from eurosport, they can at least identify the riders and seem much more knowledgeable with team tactics etc....think i learn something new each time.


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