# Is upgrading the Rival groupset stupid?



## skyliner1004 (May 9, 2010)

I'm currently running the full rival groupset on my 2010 Look 566. Everything is working great and have not a single complaint. Except my obsession for lower weights. Is it rational to upgrade to Force or Red (or any other partial combination of these component groups)?

Will i feel any difference by going to Force other than the drop in weight?


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## lucer0 (Apr 13, 2007)

It depends - changing rear derailleurs or shifters each result in a sub-20 gram change for $60 or $100 respectively. There are probably better ways purely from a dollar to gram perspective to save weight. I'll leave the "you can't buy speed" arguments to some more eloquent posters.


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## frdfandc (Nov 27, 2007)

You will not notice any type of performance increase by going up to Force. Only a small loss in weight that will only be noticeable with a scale.


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## onrhodes (Feb 19, 2004)

changing wheels (depending on what you already have) could potentially give you a bigger bang for the buck.
The total weight difference between Rival and Force is some where in the 150*200 gram range I think? It might be more, but that is a small percentage of total bike weight.


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## skaruda_23 (May 8, 2009)

skyliner1004 said:


> I'm currently running the full rival groupset on my 2010 Look 566. Everything is working great and have not a single complaint. Except my obsession for lower weights. Is it rational to upgrade to Force or Red (or any other partial combination of these component groups)?
> 
> Will i feel any difference by going to Force other than the drop in weight?


I'd agree with the others and say it's probably irrational. You won't feel the weight savings.


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## MarvinK (Feb 12, 2002)

The only thing I'd sort of consider is the shifters--but not for weight, just zero loss on the rear. The crank is probably the only SRAM part with substantial savings going from Rival to Red.


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## Clueless Morgan (Mar 27, 2010)

If I were upgrading any of my Rival parts it wouldn't be for the weight. I would consider it for feel, functionality or durability. Besides "zero loss" on the rear, is there anything about Force or Red that works or wears better than Rival?


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## asad137 (Jul 29, 2009)

I think I've heard that the Red chainrings are stiffer -- and I wouldn't doubt it, based on how they look compared to Force and Rival chainrings.

Asad


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## skyliner1004 (May 9, 2010)

asad137 said:


> I think I've heard that the Red chainrings are stiffer -- and I wouldn't doubt it, based on how they look compared to Force and Rival chainrings.
> 
> Asad


how do you even flex chainrings? when u push hard when standing, isn't it the BB that flexes (if that even?)


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## frdfandc (Nov 27, 2007)

Chainrings do flex. Depends on the material used and how they are heat treated.


Yes, the Red chainrings are stiffer than the Rival/Force.


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## asad137 (Jul 29, 2009)

frdfandc said:


> Depends on the material used and how they are heat treated.


Heat treat actually doesn't affect the stiffness of any metal.

Asad


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## aengbretson (Sep 17, 2009)

asad137 said:


> Heat treat actually doesn't affect the stiffness of any metal.
> 
> Asad


Hate to get pedantic, but that's what "modulus hardening" is all about. If the metal can undergo precipitate hardening, the forces (read: stress) at a dislocation near a precipitate particle are much higher for any given amount of deformation (strain). With enough of these particles the apparent modulus of the heat-treated alloy is higher than that of the parent metal.

But to the point of the original post, you'll miss nothing with Rival except for a minuscule amount of weight. Unless you have to have a blingy bike, Rival is great.


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## asad137 (Jul 29, 2009)

aengbretson said:


> Hate to get pedantic, but that's what "modulus hardening" is all about. If the metal can undergo precipitate hardening, the forces (read: stress) at a dislocation near a precipitate particle are much higher for any given amount of deformation (strain). With enough of these particles the apparent modulus of the heat-treated alloy is higher than that of the parent metal.


Huh, didn't know that, thanks!

Is it safe to say that materials used in bike construction don't change modulus appreciably with heat treatment?

Asad


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## aengbretson (Sep 17, 2009)

Yeah, generally the heat treatment is for toughness (reduce grain size) or hardness. A good hard surface decreases the effects of wear and a tougher metal won't fracture as easily (two very good properties in a bike!).


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## davidka (Dec 12, 2001)

Chainring stiffness really only effects shifting. Stick with the Rival, even the difference in cranks is ~80gm. Hardly worth several hundred $$'s.

Also, zero-loss rear shifting is only available on the Red group.

http://www.sram.com/sram/road/products/sram-force-doubletap-controls


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