# Rumors and Speculation 2012



## MTT (Oct 14, 2005)

Ok so now that the UCI has lifted the ban on disc brakes there will be tons of insane beautiful carbon cross bikes to choose from next fall right? Any of you work in bikes shops and/ or the industry or have heard what bike companies are coming out with next year. 

I might save up for a Ti frame with disc mounts, but carbon would be a great commuter if I could mount some fenders on her. Thoughts? Rumors? Speculation???

MTT :thumbsup:


----------



## Kerry Irons (Feb 25, 2002)

*CF commuter forks?*



MTT said:


> Ok so now that the UCI has lifted the ban on disc brakes there will be tons of insane beautiful carbon cross bikes to choose from next fall right? Any of you work in bikes shops and/ or the industry or have heard what bike companies are coming out with next year.
> 
> I might save up for a Ti frame with disc mounts, but carbon would be a great commuter if I could mount some fenders on her. Thoughts? Rumors? Speculation???


Speculation is that the chances of finding a CF fork with disc mounts and fender clearance are asymptotic to zero. Just saying.


----------



## FatTireFred (Jan 31, 2005)

Kerry Irons said:


> Speculation is that the chances of finding a CF fork with disc mounts and fender clearance are asymptotic to zero. Just saying.




winwood muddy disc cross... just sayin'


----------



## Fixed (May 12, 2005)

*noise*

Get ready for lots of noise. I did a 22 mile mtb ride in the mud and rain yesterday on my mtb with Shimano XT discs. Every time I was on the brakes it sounded like a train horn. No amount of cleaning or changing pads seems to help for long. Multiply that times everyone in cross race, and the noise could be deafening. They do stop well, though.


----------



## MTT (Oct 14, 2005)

I mountain bike, commute and road ride; so I have experience with all three types of brakes. My mountain bike discs did make noise for a few months, but then my CX commuter seems to make noise after a rain, even when the angle is perfect. All brakes make noise, so what is more important is performance. 

MTT :thumbsup:


----------



## Fixed (May 12, 2005)

*perform*

Yes, the hydraulic disc brakes do perform. Descents with rim brakes that used to completely wear out my hands from braking are almost nothing now with the discs, as the lever pressure is so slight and the brakes so strong. Got to be careful at first or you'll endo the first time you grab a handful of front brake.

Another thing to consider is cost. Disc brake pads and the disc itself are fairly pricey. Bend a disc and there's no fixing it, as the tolerances are small and even the slightest warpage throws them out of whack and makes them drag and grabby.



MTT said:


> I mountain bike, commute and road ride; so I have experience with all three types of brakes. My mountain bike discs did make noise for a few months, but then my CX commuter seems to make noise after a rain, even when the angle is perfect. All brakes make noise, so what is more important is performance.
> 
> MTT :thumbsup:


----------



## m_s (Nov 20, 2007)

You can true rotors....


----------



## MTT (Oct 14, 2005)

m_s said:


> You can true rotors....


True dat! And who says noise is a bad thing? On the trial here the noise may get the joggers to move out of the way. Two deep is fine, but man when they run three deep and block the whole trail I want to just run them over! MTT :thumbsup:


----------



## 7rider (Oct 19, 2005)

FatTireFred said:


> winwood muddy disc cross... just sayin'


That's what I put on my ti commuter.
BB7s and fenders.
Works great.


----------



## buck-50 (Sep 20, 2005)

I guess the problem for me with discs is that where I live, they aren't appreciably better than any other brake but they are more expensive and they do require special wheels. 

In Wisconsin, there's no monster mountain downhills. The roads are pretty well kept and hills, if steep, are fairly short. Same as most of the country, really.

In the winter on the ice, discs aren't any better than cantis because you can have all the braking power in the world but it doesn't matter when you have more brake than traction. 

In the rain, discs aren't appreciably better than any other well set up brake.

and the rest of the time, overkill.


----------



## MTT (Oct 14, 2005)

I have to disagree with that one; discs are much better in the rain. When I switched over back when mountain bikes switched it was like night and day, and I know my cantis don't work very well in the rain, and I have nice TRPs. I have to pump them every so often to take the grim layer off. 

Which Ti frame with discs do you have? Photos? Sounds like a great bike.............MTT :thumbsup:


----------



## 7rider (Oct 19, 2005)

I got a Seven Cafe Racer. My big splurge!

https://i193.photobucket.com/albums/z85/7rider/IMG_1536.jpg

See more here, from the Seven forum. Of course, these were taken before I put the fenders on it, and I've added Ergon grips and bar ends since these, too.


----------



## MTT (Oct 14, 2005)

7rider said:


> I got a Seven Cafe Racer. My big splurge!
> 
> https://i193.photobucket.com/albums/z85/7rider/IMG_1536.jpg
> 
> See more here, from the Seven forum. Of course, these were taken before I put the fenders on it, and I've added Ergon grips and bar ends since these, too.


I think it is safe to say that is one of the coolest commuters I have ever seen! Man that rig is ready for anything. I hope by selling two bikes I might be able to afford something like that. 

I just read that Specialized is designing some carbon disc cyclocross bikes for 2012. Since I like the geometry of my Tri-Cross, and the new bikes (rumor has it) might have similar geometry, I am getting excited..........MTT :thumbsup:


----------



## JohnnyTooBad (Apr 5, 2004)

MTT said:


> I have to disagree with that one; discs are much better in the rain. When I switched over back when mountain bikes switched it was like night and day, and I know my cantis don't work very well in the rain, and I have nice TRPs. I have to pump them every so often to take the grim layer off.


I'm on MTT's side on this one. And will add that there is nothing worse than snow and ice on your rims. It doesn't build up on your disc rotor. I've had a number of situations where we got snow during the day, and on my commute home, would ride in about 2" of snow on the MUT, and it completely cakes up on the rims.


----------



## buck-50 (Sep 20, 2005)

JohnnyTooBad said:


> I'm on MTT's side on this one. And will add that there is nothing worse than snow and ice on your rims. It doesn't build up on your disc rotor. I've had a number of situations where we got snow during the day, and on my commute home, would ride in about 2" of snow on the MUT, and it completely cakes up on the rims.


Not saying you are wrong, but my experience has been completely different.

Riding home in 12 inches of fresh snow, no problems at all. Running fenders seemed to help. Same in 1 or 2 inches.

The biggest problem I've ever had with brakes in winter is overpowering my available grip. Even with studded tires, there's just not a lot for a tire to grab hold of in the snow/ice/salt mix on Wisconsin roads. 

My only real beef with discs is that they require special wheels. To me (and apparently me only) the big benefit of CX bikes/29ers/monstercross bikes is that I can run any of my 700c wheels. But if I've got to buy a special set of disc wheels I'm back to having just one set of wheels for my bike.


----------



## brucew (Jun 3, 2006)

Kerry Irons said:


> Speculation is that the chances of finding a CF fork with disc mounts and fender clearance are asymptotic to zero. Just saying.


Wound Up Team-X disc. (Remember to order with fender eyelets because they're an option.) Just sayin'


----------



## MTT (Oct 14, 2005)

Just the fact that you all ride in the snow amazes me. Luckily for us, in Seattle, we only get about 10 days a year with snow; so we can ride most of the winter with out dealing with it. I have been caught out in it on occasion and it can be scary (unless it is wet)...........MTT


----------



## seeborough (Feb 3, 2004)

Kerry Irons said:


> Speculation is that the chances of finding a CF fork with disc mounts and fender clearance are asymptotic to zero. Just saying.


Here are two made by Aprebic, the one on the left came with my WooDoo Wazoo:


----------



## m_s (Nov 20, 2007)

The one on the right is identical to the Winwood/Nashbar.

I'm still thinking about putting a front disc on my singlespeed, since I have one of the Winwood carbon forks and a disc hub lying around already. The lack of buildup and wear on the rims is what's really nice. The XTR canti on their now isn't bad though, so there isn't any rush. For low-demand braking situations such as flat ground or dry conditions downhill I've never been left wanting, but all the same discs make more sense if only because they don't wear out your rim from braking.

I will also probably use a 140mm disc. Seems adequate. Also thinking about trying the Tektro Lyra or Shimano road discs just for giggles, though the BB7s have been OK on my mountain bike.

As to noise, brakes of all kinds can be noisy due to a number of factors. My BB7s got improved feel and less noise from a switch to organic pads, but they do wear faster than metallic pads. YMMV. I am looking forward to seeing what develops int he next few years in terms of road/cross discs, but I'm also in no hurry to switch.


----------



## Slim Again Soon (Oct 25, 2005)

I put disc brakes (cable, Avid BB7s) on my commuter because I can get caught in some serious thunderstorms in the summer, and my Ultegra brakes were not cutting it.

As for truing up a disc, I did it with a rubber mallet. That's probably not what is recommended, but it worked fine.


----------



## brucew (Jun 3, 2006)

Slim Again said:


> As for truing up a disc, I did it with a rubber mallet. That's probably not what is recommended, but it worked fine.


I heard you were a hammer mechanic! 

Park, naturally, makes a special tool. Most folks use a crescent wench. I just use fingers.


----------



## Fixed (May 12, 2005)

*tried*



brucew said:


> I heard you were a hammer mechanic!
> 
> Park, naturally, makes a special tool. Most folks use a crescent wench. I just use fingers.


I tweaked one, but never could get it straight. Was always grabby after that, so I replaced. 

I stopped crashing, so less of an issue, now. ;-)


----------



## Fai Mao (Nov 3, 2008)

And then your commuter falls over the fork to delaminate and you end up walking home.

Disc brakes on a commuter might be of some use though as stated above they can be cost prohibitive. If your bike cost as much as an automobile to maintain you might as well drive. I live in a mountainous area and find that rim brakes are perfectly adequate though there is no snow or even freezing weather in Southern China. However, I can see no benefit, not ride quality or anything that would entice me to put a carbon fork on a commuting bike even if I could get a fork that would accommodate 40 mm wide 650b tires and fenders. A dynamo hub powered light set is a better option than a disc brake on a commuting bike; you need light far more often than you need more brake. 

Please note; I have a carbon fiber triathlon bike I’m not a total anti-carbon guy but using carbon on a bike that you might have to lock outside or need to ride with minimal maintenance is at best silly. What am I saving? By the time I load up my clothing, laptop and rain gear on a bike with fenders, lights and wider tires who cares if the bike 30 pounds rather than 37 pounds? Commuting is not a race. If not weight then what is the benefit? You certainly won’t save either money or maintenance time with a carbon fork.

To answer the original question on this thread, I don’t think you’ll see very many disc brake road bikes in the TdF I think the rule change allows more for the possibility that the odd cyclo-cross bike might be used as an emergency replacement


----------



## m_s (Nov 20, 2007)

First of all, I've laid down my cross bike plenty of times and the fork hasn't given in, so that's not something I'm worried about. Not sure where the discussion about carbon came from anyways. It's just another material, you know? Plenty of things can work, and I personally don't have any preferences as long as the bike has the features, fit,etc I'm looking for.

Secondly, the idea that discs are higher maintenance than another type of brake is pretty much false. Avid pads are 15-20 bucks an end, which is within the range of rim brakes, and they get replaced less under most circumstances. Rotors on my mountain bike have lasted about 2 years in dry weather but with many long descents (off road, which puts way more strain on the brake than most on road situations). That's maybe less time than the rim itself would last, but then again maybe not, and replacing a rotor is cheaper and just makes more sense than rebuilding the wheel every time your braking surface wears out.

Other than lack of compatibility with specific bikes, potentially initial cost (though it depends) and overall higher weight, there really isn't a downside to discs. Of course for some people those are real downsides, at least for a while. But you did just say you don't care about weight


----------

