# Giant 2013 Road bikes?



## turnbulg

Any news on Giant 2013 road bike models?

A bit early I guess but thought I would start a thread.


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## Sven_Nijs

Given the road range was revamped last year, I doubt there will be much changed in the TCR & Defy ranges apart from colour and groupset revisions.
Rumour has it that there will be an aero framed road model launched for 2013. No details yet though.....


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## Corsaire

That's what I've heard also, straight from the Giant rep's mouth. The new aero model will NOT replace the current top of the line Advanced TCR SL as such though, but it will be an addition to the high end line to those riders fixed up with with the aero trend. However, this new aero model, although high end too, will not have the same riding characteristics so much revered in the Advanced SL models, unless Giant pulls a rabbit out the hat, anything is possible, we'll see......


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## zappafile123

Corsaire said:


> That's what I've heard also, straight from the Giant rep's mouth. The new aero model will NOT replace the current top of the line Advanced TCR SL as such though, but it will be an addition to the high end line to those riders fixed up with with the aero trend. However, this new aero model, although high end too, will not have the same riding characteristics so much revered in the Advanced SL models, unless Giant pulls a rabbit out the hat, anything is possible, we'll see......


I hope they come out with a DA9070 version... The boys at work said to me that they where intent on manufacturing a bike faster than cervelo's S5 and would not put anything into production until they achieved that goal... Lets hope that it has the ride quality of the advanced models! I thought the cervelo S2 was awesome... then I road other bikes and discovered that it was about as exciting as watching paint dry to ride.


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## 5.4X4

Any new info on this topic? I am about to pull the plug on a Defy Composite 1. It is a very sharp looking bike, but I wounder what next years colors will be!


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## Sven_Nijs

We'll find out in mid-August...


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## verycreativeusername

in Australia I believe the defy will be red


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## 5.4X4

That would be sweet, how do you know that?


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## oisiaa

I'm guessing that the TCRs stay the same. Probably get the 11 speed Dura-Ace on the top builds. I'm also betting on an aero road bike...TCA maybe?


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## verycreativeusername

5.4X4 said:


> That would be sweet, how do you know that?


I was flicking through the 2013 recreational catalogue at my LBS, but its the defy 1 not the defy composite... but in Australia they were pretty similar on colour so I assume its going to be the same for 2013


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## JohnDavid69

Hi guys,

I'm new but I saw this thread and wanted to reply to it; the 2013 Giant bikes are available if you need to have one ordered. I found this out a couple of weeks ago when I asked my LBS to order a Defy 5 for me and they emailed me to let me know that the 2012s weren't being shipped anymore, Giant was now shipping the 2013 model, in charcoal grey, and would that be acceptable, etc. etc. So I got the 2013. It's nice, a medium-dark metallic grey (darker than it looks in the one or two promo pics I scrounged up online); the top tube might possibly be a little flatter than last year's; otherwise it's the same, no changes.

I can post a pic if anyone's curious and wants to see it. I assume the Defy 1, 2, 3 are also available for order now, but I didn't ask about them. 

-J


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## 5.4X4

I would like to see a pic, that's not the bike I am after but I still want to see it! I think my lbs knowes more than they are telling me! Maybe because they have 2012 models on the floor.


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## JohnDavid69

Here you go...


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## 5.4X4

Nice looking ride!


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## oisiaa

I'd love to see pictures.


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## darwinosx

JohnDavid69 said:


> Here you go...


Nice bike.


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## JohnDavid69

Thanks guys - here's a picture of the other side (bike's on the rack here) - apparently it comes in a triple too but I got the double. Sorry about the picture quality - absolutely horrendous camera on my cellphone.

@osiaa - the first pic is attached to my earlier post about 3 posts up in the thread.

-J


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## RyanDe680

The Defys (all that I know of) are available to order.

I just picked up a Defy 1 at Spokes in Wheaton, IL. You can pre-order a 2013 if you desire.


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## Sun Rider

Same experience on 2012 availability. Two weeks ago called several Giant dealers in my area looking for an Advanced One in L. None in the shops and none available from Giant. Waiting on the '13 model line.
Happy ending for me. Fifth dealer I called didn't have a One in stock but sold me a Zero for the retail price of the One.


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## Defy

That's a great deal! Let us know how that Di2 shifting is!


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## 5.4X4

How can you order one without seeing it first!


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## Sun Rider

Defy said:


> That's a great deal! Let us know how that Di2 shifting is!


First impression is it works very well. The shifts are quick and positive. I'm strictly a recreational/fitness rider so the Di2 is neat to have on the bike but I'd be just as happy with the mechanical shifters.


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## sgonzo2k

RyanDe680 said:


> The Defys (all that I know of) are available to order.
> 
> I just picked up a Defy 1 at Spokes in Wheaton, IL. You can pre-order a 2013 if you desire.


How much did you pay for it if you don't mind me asking? I just bought one as well and I the retail price, $1370 plus tax.

Here is a picture of a 2013 Defy 1 that was in the shop, not in my size. Mine is on order..
ok nevermind... I'm still newbie in the boards so I can't post pictures just yet.


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## darwinosx

Love that paint scheme. Here's my 2012 Defy Advanced 2.
46cm bars
Specialized saddle
Speedplay pedals with extenders
Velocity Deep V rims and Ultegra hubs.


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## T-Dog

I would rather walk than ride Shimano or Sram.


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## darwinosx

T-Dog said:


> I would rather walk than ride Shimano or Sram.


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## RyanDe680

sgonzo2k said:


> How much did you pay for it if you don't mind me asking? I just bought one as well and I the retail price, $1370 plus tax.
> 
> Here is a picture of a 2013 Defy 1 that was in the shop, not in my size. Mine is on order..
> ok nevermind... I'm still newbie in the boards so I can't post pictures just yet.


I bought mine for $1,300


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## teoteoteo

Bikes will be unveiled to dealers in Vail Tuesday, will try to get some pics. Road line was all new in 12 so MTB will get a revamp, if they have any aero bike they've been good at staying hush.


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## Sven_Nijs

teoteoteo said:


> if they have any aero bike they've been good at staying hush.


There were rumours that some of the Giant sponsored riders would debut the (UCI approved) 'Propel Advanced SL ISP' bikes at the Olympics but that seems to have been just that, a rumour.
You guys may be the first to see it (even if just on a powerpoint presentation).


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## 5.4X4

Come on Tuesday!!! I am hoping for a bad azz color on the defy composit 1!


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## zappafile123

5.4X4 said:


> Come on Tuesday!!! I am hoping for a bad azz color on the defy composit 1!


Defy comp 1 or 2 (cant remember) is black and white and running apex. Who knows why giant would choose to kit it with apex - apex really is crappy running gear.


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## 5.4X4

The comp 1 this year is ultegra, if I have waited all this time and they changed it down to 105, or apex I will not be happy! I would have bought the 12 but I just thought it was plane looking. I wanted something with a bit more color. The 3 is tiagra, and the 2 is apex. And in my opinion both looked better than the 1.


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## zappafile123

5.4X4 said:


> The comp 1 this year is ultegra, if I have waited all this time and they changed it down to 105, or apex I will not be happy! I would have bought the 12 but I just thought it was plane looking. I wanted something with a bit more color.


Ah, you might be right that the 1 has ultegra, but at work we've got the bike I mentioned which might just be a 2 or even a 3! If I where you I'd go for a defy advanced - the advanced level carbon produces a much better bike.


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## 5.4X4

It's about 600 more to go to the advanced. It has ultegra as well. Now, it is complet ultegra, where the comp has a 105 cassette and 105 chain, and 105 brakes. I have thought about the jump, but I am kinda stretching the budget already. I wounder how different the two frames really are? Right now I am riding a old road bike called a Scorpio, it has RX100 group set on it. I think it's a 2001. All alum. And heavy. My wife and I ride just for fitness and some benefits rides as well.


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## zappafile123

I'm really into racy, stiff bikes and like a very low riding position so my opinion is coming from a different direction to yours. But, from experience talking to prospective buyers in the shop and riding the bikes myself, the advanced models are significantly better - stiffer and more lively. I'd suggest trying to get your hands on a 2012 advanced model if there are any left. they are roughly the same price as the new 2013 composite models - we have a TCR advanced three with 105 and its $1999aud which is the same price as the composite with apex I mentioned before... 

Try both frames and you'll see what I mean.


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## r1lee

I ride a both a rapid composite (same frame as defy comp) and recently picked up a tcr advanced sl3. There is a big night and day difference between both bikes.


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## Spikehj

So sounds like no major changes to the framesets for the Defy/Defy Advanced?


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## Sven_Nijs

Spikehj said:


> So sounds like no major changes to the framesets for the Defy/Defy Advanced?


Unlikely other than maybe colours.
The only new/revised road model is likely to be the Propel.


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## r1lee

any updates??


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## krtassoc

2013 Rabobank Replica: 捷安特RABOBANK親民版 - GIANT捷安特三重新吉興單車生活館(02)29740399 - Yahoo!奇摩部落格


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## Sasquatch

what a beaut!


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## r1lee

Here it is, the 2013 lineup.

http://www.giant-bicycles.com/en-us/bike-index/?collections_id=9&preview=true


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## 5.4X4

As I have said before, the bike I am interested in is the Defy comp. 1. As I pulled up both pics, the 2012 and the 2013 ther is a difference in the back portion of the frame ! Look right where the top tube meets the seat post and the seat stays connect. The 2012 looked as if it flowed better. The stays on the 13 seam to connect to the frame lower than last year. What is this about? The rear portion of the frame looks more like the advanced model.


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## zappafile123

r1lee said:


> Here it is, the 2013 lineup.
> 
> Bike Index - Giant Bicycles | United States


Thanks for that link. I gotta say, Im really disapointed with Giant's paint scheme. Hands down, they just look ugly. Its a realy shame, the frames are really nice, but the TCR SL 0 has the paint job of a cheap crappy bike. I mean seriously, I probably wont buy one now cause they look terrible. the 2012 model is pretty cool - naked carbon... they really need to take note of the asethics of other manufacturers like pinarello and colnago... if only I worked in a shop that sold those bikes...


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## teoteoteo

Saw many of these in person. Giant is undergoing big changes but it will take AT least until 2014 before you see design changes. John Swanson has taken over the road division in the United States. He came over from Specialized. John Thompson that led Specialized through their big growth years is now in charge of sales at Giant. Stan Mavis, co-founder of Pearl Izumi is now working for Giant. The team at hand though likely inherited much of the current line.


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## zappafile123

teoteoteo said:


> Saw many of these in person. Giant is undergoing big changes but it will take AT least until 2014 before you see design changes. John Swanson has taken over the road division in the United States. He came over from Specialized. John Thompson that led Specialized through their big growth years is now in charge of sales at Giant. Stan Mavis, co-founder of Pearl Izumi is now working for Giant. The team at hand though likely inherited much of the current line.


Cool, so there should be some fairly radical changes for 2014? that's exciting! Hopefully the people mentioned have at least the vaguest sense of aesthetics so they can revamp these ugly but well performing bikes!


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## Sven_Nijs

Interesting that there is no sign of the Propel Advanced SL yet and that Giant's own deep section wheels have disappeared too.
Prices don't seem too different and in fact the TCR Advanced SL 0 has apparently dropped in price. 
More importantly the TCR Advanced 0 with Di2 now has a more palatable paint scheme! :thumbsup:


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## Manning

WTH!!!!! I just bought a Defy 1 a month ago, and now the 2013's are $20 cheaper! I got ripped off!!!


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## r1lee

Sven_Nijs said:


> Interesting that there is no sign of the Propel Advanced SL yet and that Giant's own deep section wheels have disappeared too.
> Prices don't seem too different and in fact the TCR Advanced SL 0 has apparently dropped in price.
> More importantly the TCR Advanced 0 with Di2 now has a more palatable paint scheme! :thumbsup:





Manning said:


> WTH!!!!! I just bought a Defy 1 a month ago, and now the 2013's are $20 cheaper! I got ripped off!!!


Only diff is the chain. My colleague was glad i was able to help him pick up tis years defy comp3 for $1200 + tax.

The sl0 dropped the slr aero wheels. No dura ace bottom bracket, but you're right, not sure if that's really a big deal considering the major price drop.

Maybe they are moving the aero's to the propel.


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## Defy

Spikehj said:


> So sounds like no major changes to the framesets for the Defy/Defy Advanced?


Looks like the Defy composite is using the frame mold of the defy advanced mostly. Last year it used the 2011 defy advanced mold.


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## icsloppl

zappafile123 said:


> Thanks for that link. I gotta say, Im really disapointed with Giant's paint scheme. Hands down, they just look ugly. Its a realy shame, the frames are really nice, but the TCR SL 0 has the paint job of a cheap crappy bike. I mean seriously, I probably wont buy one now cause they look terrible. the 2012 model is pretty cool - naked carbon... they really need to take note of the asethics of other manufacturers like pinarello and colnago... if only I worked in a shop that sold those bikes...


There are only TCR SL 1 and 2's, no zero's...


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## Sven_Nijs

Don't know if it's going to be available worldwide but that Trinity Composite 0 with Ultegra Di2 looks like a cracking value entry level TT bike.


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## Sun Rider

And, the Defy Advanced model 0 went up $250 while the model 1 came down $550.


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## calaris

The new blue and black is much nicer looking than last's year's teal and black combination.


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## mtnspectre

Yeeeeee haaaaa....hijacked the thread sorry. I need 5 posts to start a new thread. You're number 3


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## zappafile123

Talked to the boss at work today - the Propel is going to be premiered at the "tour down under" and will be available to the public january/febuary.


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## Italianrider76

The 2013 Australian market models are up. The TCR Adavanced SL only comes here in the 0 and 1 versions. Both ISP, the 0 with Di2 amd the the 1 with mech Dura Ace and no Rabobank colours this year. Noticed a big price difference between the SL 1 in the U.S and Australia. In Aust it's $5499 and in the States it's $6900. Awesome! For once we actually pay less for the same stuff than our American friends do!


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## zappafile123

Italianrider76 said:


> The 2013 Australian market models are up. The TCR Adavanced SL only comes here in the 0 and 1 versions. Both ISP, the 0 with Di2 amd the the 1 with mech Dura Ace and no Rabobank colours this year. Noticed a big price difference between the SL 1 in the U.S and Australia. In Aust it's $5499 and in the States it's $6900. Awesome! For once we actually pay less for the same stuff than our American friends do!


Yeah, thats awesome! I can get the SL1 for 4400. and the 0 for 6040... might go the 1 or just get a propel..


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## Sven_Nijs

They've dropped the price of the TCR Advanced SL 0 to $7300. OK, so there's no 'aero' wheels but there is new programmable DA Di2 with all the other bells and whistles. Makes trying to pick up the 2012 version on run-out look less appealing now... 
The Advanced 0 looks OK now too so if I can't get approval from the minster of finance for plan A then it's is a decent plan B.


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## zappafile123

Sven_Nijs said:


> They've dropped the price of the TCR Advanced SL 0 to $7300. OK, so there's no 'aero' wheels but there is new programmable DA Di2 with all the other bells and whistles. Makes trying to pick up the 2012 version on run-out look less appealing now...
> The Advanced 0 looks OK now too so if I can't get approval from the minster of finance for plan A then it's is a decent plan B.


Dont forget about the propel coming out in january... that might be awesome... Maybe thats what will be the Rabobank flagship... that would be cool - new dura ace 75mm deep rims with DA 9000 mechanical and hopefully a palatable paint job...


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## teoteoteo

zappafile123 said:


> Dont forget about the propel coming out in january... that might be awesome... Maybe thats what will be the Rabobank flagship... that would be cool - new dura ace 75mm deep rims with DA 9000 mechanical and hopefully a palatable paint job...


They'll release the bike for orders then, but current estimated ship for first units is not until March 31


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## rg144

Have to say, im not too fond of the 2013 colour schemes, they kinda look a little cheap; although the MTB (Anthem & Trance) look great. 

2011 road bike colour schemes still my fav.


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## zappafile123

rg144 said:


> Have to say, im not too fond of the 2013 colour schemes, they kinda look a little cheap; although the MTB (Anthem & Trance) look great.
> 
> 2011 road bike colour schemes still my fav.


I agree totally. Giant have got everything all wrong. the bikes look like cheap wannabe serious bikes. They seriously need to revamp their road line up. Because in all honesty when you see a roadie on a giant you think newbie. When in fact, I think the tcr advanced is at least on par or better than my look 585 ultra and definitely better than my cervelo SLC. They need to change their image to get the credit they deserve.


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## darwinosx

I don't see someone on a Giant and think newbie. I don't think most knowledgable people do.
Anyway, only two Defy Advanced models now? I thought higher head tube and slightly more relaxed geometries were very popular these days. I much prefer the Advanced frame over the Defy composite but there are four composite Defys.
Interesting that the TCR Composite frames looks very different from the Defy Composite frame with what looks like a much beefier head tube.
I would also like to see more clear coat carbon.


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## zappafile123

Dude, Im knowledgeable, but just a snob. Im just voicing the consensus of a few melbourne roadies... here in canberra, however, people are a little open minded. 
Think of it this way, you see a pinarello or a colnago and think wow thats classy (and that that person has way too much money) and then you see a giant, and you think - cheap asian: functional but no soul.


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## darwinosx

I wasn't referring to you personally which is why I said most. Maybe things are different in the U.S. than Canberra regarding what people think. Most knowledgable people here know that Giant makes bikes for most of the major brands and has for a long time.
Personally when I see Pinarello I think silly looking frame for no reason and just another decent carbon bike with a high price tag because of the name.
Colnago has great handling but they are made the same place as everything else so still over priced.
For me the only bikes with soul are high end titanium and steel. Not carbon of any kind. I love riding my Giant but its not a Moots, or Serotta, or Tesch, or Fuso or any of the other high end bikes I've owned over the years. In a couple years when carbon has made even more improvement I'll walk away from it without a second though and get the latest thing.


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## 5.4X4

I for one was very disappointed with the 2013 color of the defy comp, so much so I have started looking elsewhere! My LBS sells a couple of good brands, including Pin, and Bianchi. The LBS only has a sempre 105, but I am really interested in the Infinito 105, it's the same price as the defy comp. ultegra. And from what I have read it's a relaxed set up as well!


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## darwinosx

The 2013 Bianchi frames are supposed to be significantly better than the 2012s. Stiffer etc.


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## ben_

any people riding or have the 2013 TCR Advanced Sl?


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## r1lee

They haven't released them yet from my knowledge. There really isn't any changes from the 2012 SL's.


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## Sven_Nijs

r1lee said:


> They haven't released them yet from my knowledge. There really isn't any changes from the 2012 SL's.


apart from the groupsets, wheels and cosmetics.


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## verycreativeusername

zappafile123 said:


> Dude, Im knowledgeable, but just a snob. Im just voicing the consensus of a few melbourne roadies... here in canberra, however, people are a little open minded.
> Think of it this way, you see a pinarello or a colnago and think wow thats classy (and that that person has way too much money) and then you see a giant, and you think - cheap asian: functional but no soul.


When I see a Pinarello I think of a paint job that weighs/costs more than the frame... Pinarello and Colnago are not exotic IMO, a Parlee is exotic, Alchemy is exotic, but Pinarello, Colnago, etc. are more bikes for dentists. 

Anyway I was thinking the other day if it would be a good idea for giant to start a "Lexus" company, similar to what Specialized do with S-Works... then I thought that would be a bad idea because then they would spend more money on marketing than R&D. 

I see in Australia the Defy composite is now using the same mould as the current defy advanced, not the previous one. But the TCR composite is still using some funny mould that looks nothing like the current or previous TCR advanced bikes (just an observation, not being negative about it). One thing I have noticed with the TCR composite is that it looks kinda aero, not like their bigger brothers... perhaps this is where Giant started research for their propel?


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## carbonconvert

*Not my cup of tea.....*

Once again, truly awful , gaudy sticker graphics and color panels. I believe its decided
that way so it will keep these thread going! What else is to talk about since technically they are great frames?


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## hir0

2013 bikes are up on the giant website now...


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## bszoka

I've been riding a commuter bike for several years but have rented roadbikes on vacations (generally Specialized Roubaixs) enough to know what I'm missing. So I'm about to buy my first road bike and have found what seems like a great deal on a 2012 Defy Composite 1 ($1700, down from $2400). It's more than I was expecting to spend but it's a sweet ride.

But I'm trying to figure out how well this would fare on the streets of Washington, DC. I work from home so my "commuter" riding is limited to trips of about a mile to the gym, the store, meetings, etc. 

What do you all think? Would *you* feel comfortable riding a Composite 1 on urban streets? And leaving it locked up (with wheel locks, of course) on bike racks? The areas I bike to are all quite safe and well trafficked, and it's generally only during the day time.

One particular issue: I've had cartilage repair surgery on both wrists. One is still a bit sensitive to strain. It hasn't bothered me on smooth roads, even on very long (40-50 mile) rides on the Roubaixs I've rented, but I do worry about the pressure of riding around urban streets. 

Also, would the gear range be appropriate for sometimes slow riding?

If I can't count on this bike to replace my existing commuter bike, I might have to consider getting a touring bike instead.

Any thoughts you all have would be most welcome!


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## Defy

Looks like the 2013 carbon frames all use the modified monocoque process where the top layer of carbon is replaced with paint. Must not affect performance as they claim since even the advanced sl use this now. In 2012, only the composite level t-600 used modified monocoque. 

If this matters to you then maybe the 2012 is better for you.


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## zappafile123

Defy said:


> Looks like the 2013 carbon frames all use the modified monocoque process where the top layer of carbon is replaced with paint. Must not affect performance as they claim since even the advanced sl use this now. In 2012, only the composite level t-600 used modified monocoque.
> 
> If this matters to you then maybe the 2012 is better for you.


Wow, really? how did you find that out? Do you know if it actually changes things up much?


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## icsloppl

This appears to be the case. The description of the Advanced SL is somewhat ambiguous, but it looks like they have all gone to this. Not a good thing overall...

http://www.giant-bicycles.com/en-us/technology/composite_technology/55/


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## r1lee

Well I don't think changing the matte finish of the carbon and replacing it with paint is a bad thing. They must meet t800 standards or else I wouldn't be called t800.


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## icsloppl

r1lee said:


> Well I don't think changing the matte finish of the carbon and replacing it with paint is a bad thing. They must meet t800 standards or else I wouldn't be called t800.


They're attempting to disguise a two-peice frame as a single monocoque / single mold. It's a money saving technique that isn't optimal in terms of weight, longevity, or ride quality.

That said, there are plenty of two-piece frames that are very good, the Colnago CX-1 for instance. In that case, the rear triangle joint/lug is more overtly visible.

CX-1 Evo | Colnago


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## Defy

r1lee said:


> Well I don't think changing the matte finish of the carbon and replacing it with paint is a bad thing. They must meet t800 standards or else I wouldn't be called t800.


The outer layer of carbon is replaced with paint, not the matte finish.

Bottom line is that they used this on the 2012 composite line only which is the value line, but for 2013 it's across the board on all their carbon frames. It must not be a big deal...

And of course, if you want dura ace 9000, you will need to go with 2013.


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## fez_

I picked up a 2013 TCR Composite 2 a couple of days ago. Love it. Unfortunately can't attach a pic here.


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## kentkreitler

I think you are wrong regarding the 2012 vs 2013 frames. The 2012 was never a monocouqe since the seat tube were isolated from the mainframe. Does anyone really believe that they would change the mould from one year to another, without making more visible changes? 

Why would paint on the frame change the T800 class underneath?


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## icsloppl

kentkreitler said:


> I think you are wrong regarding the 2012 vs 2013 frames. The 2012 was never a monocouqe since the seat tube were isolated from the mainframe. Does anyone really believe that they would change the mould from one year to another, without making more visible changes?
> 
> Why would paint on the frame change the T800 class underneath?


The seat tube is part of the main triangle on both years. The question is whether the seat and chain stay sub-frame is now a seperate unit that is then grafted onto the main triangle, and the answer is pretty clearly yes.

Paint on the frame obvioulsy has nothing to do with the material in use. That's not the question.

As to whether they would change the mold without making visable changes, the uniqueness of this change is exactly that the change in manufaturing, while dramatic, *is* close to invisible. In all other cases, like the CX-1 linked above, the joining is obviously a standard lugged construction hybrid. The Giant method is clearly an advance in this regard, but it's still 2 pieces...


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## kentkreitler

icsloppl said:


> The seat tube is part of the main triangle on both years. The question is whether the seat and chain stay sub-frame is now a seperate unit that is then grafted onto the main triangle, and the answer is pretty clearly yes.
> 
> Paint on the frame obvioulsy has nothing to do with the material in use. That's not the question.
> 
> As to whether they would change the mold without making visable changes, the uniqueness of this change is exactly that the change in manufaturing, while dramatic, *is* close to invisible. In all other cases, like the CX-1 linked above, the joining is obviously a standard lugged construction hybrid. The Giant method is clearly an advance in this regard, but it's still 2 pieces...


I still disagree about the seat tube. Although I am not an expert or an engineer in advanced materials manufacturing I do believe the seat tube is not manufactured as a one piece mold with the top tube. From giant's site:

"Fusion Process: Advanced SL toptubes are “grafted” to the seattube using filament winding and co-molding. This complex process involves hand weaving the two tubes together, then re-molding the area under heat and high pressure to unify the junction—resulting in a lighter, stronger junction than with traditional molding." 

I wonder about the line saying that continuous Fiber technology "found on select 2013 framesets". What does that mean?


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## kentkreitler

Defy said:


> Looks like the 2013 carbon frames all use the modified monocoque process where the top layer of carbon is replaced with paint. Must not affect performance as they claim since even the advanced sl use this now. In 2012, only the composite level t-600 used modified monocoque.
> 
> If this matters to you then maybe the 2012 is better for you.


It was actually stated that the T700, Advanced frames used this technology in 2012.


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## icsloppl

kentkreitler said:


> I still disagree about the seat tube. Although I am not an expert or an engineer in advanced materials manufacturing I do believe the seat tube is not manufactured as a one piece mold with the top tube. From giant's site:
> 
> "Fusion Process: Advanced SL toptubes are “grafted” to the seattube using filament winding and co-molding. This complex process involves hand weaving the two tubes together, then re-molding the area under heat and high pressure to unify the junction—resulting in a lighter, stronger junction than with traditional molding."


You may be correct. I'm basing my statement about the 2012 on the appearance of my frame. It's "nude" carbon at that point and at least appears to be a single structure. If it isn't the process was indeed complex.

Initially for the 2013's, there was a message of "no changes", which doesn't appear to be correct based on the Giant website. Some of the changes seem to clear, while others maybe are not. When the LBS gets a 2013 SL in stock it'll be interesting to see if the differences are obvious, but my belief is that they exist, but have been cosmetically masked by the removal of CF and painting to hide the joining techniques.


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## Defy

kentkreitler said:


> It was actually stated that the T700, Advanced frames used this technology in 2012.


I have the 2012 catalog and there is a grid with 2 columns. Monocoque & modified monocoque. Under the t-700 row, there is an x under monocoque. Under the t-600 row there is an x under modified monocoque. 

I didn't buy the 2012 defy composite because of modified monocoque. And instead bought the 2010 that has the same frame design but used t-700 & monocoque. I didn't see any carbon pattern on the defy composite vs my 2010 advanced where anywhere its not white, you can see the 3K carbon pattern. Looks nicer to me. The 2012 advanced is monocoque but was over $3k at my lbs.

However, 2013 as I was corrected in another discussion, the composite and advanced use the same new frame design and now both use modified monocoque. So the difference besides overdrive 2 & ride sense appears to be just the carbon grade. I.e. an upgrade for the 2013 composite and a little downgrade for the 2013 advanced.


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## kentkreitler

Defy said:


> I have the 2012 catalog and there is a grid with 2 columns. Monocoque & modified monocoque. Under the t-700 row, there is an x under monocoque. Under the t-600 row there is an x under modified monocoque.
> 
> I didn't buy the 2012 defy composite because of modified monocoque. And instead bought the 2010 that has the same frame design but used t-700 & monocoque. I didn't see any carbon pattern on the defy composite vs my 2010 advanced where anywhere its not white, you can see the 3K carbon pattern. Looks nicer to me. The 2012 advanced is monocoque but was over $3k at my lbs.
> 
> However, 2013 as I was corrected in another discussion, the composite and advanced use the same new frame design and now both use modified monocoque. So the difference besides overdrive 2 & ride sense appears to be just the carbon grade. I.e. an upgrade for the 2013 composite and a little downgrade for the 2013 advanced.


Please have a look at the description of the Advanced at the 2012 Road launch at the Bikeradar coverage.


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## kentkreitler

icsloppl said:


> You may be correct. I'm basing my statement about the 2012 on the appearance of my frame. It's "nude" carbon at that point and at least appears to be a single structure. If it isn't the process was indeed complex.
> 
> Initially for the 2013's, there was a message of "no changes", which doesn't appear to be correct based on the Giant website. Some of the changes seem to clear, while others maybe are not. When the LBS gets a 2013 SL in stock it'll be interesting to see if the differences are obvious, but my belief is that they exist, but have been cosmetically masked by the removal of CF and painting to hide the joining techniques.


Giant has been using the seat tube technology for some years, I believe also for the prior 2011 model.

I have also learnt the "no changes" message, therefore I am a bit surprised by these information about the use of another manufacturing process. I would guess and hope for a missprint in the brochure. If this technology is lesser than other. But hey, there are a lot of frames that are lugged and considered top of the line, like Parlee, Colnago etc. I think it is the end result that is what matters.


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## Defy

kentkreitler said:


> Please have a look at the description of the Advanced at the 2012 Road launch at the Bikeradar coverage.


I did take a look and it said the 2012 TCR advanced uses a more conventional "modular" monocoque construction technique. 

Not "modified" monocoque. It doesn't mean the same thing.


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## kentkreitler

Defy said:


> I did take a look and it said the 2012 TCR advanced uses a more conventional "modular" monocoque construction technique.
> 
> Not "modified" monocoque. It doesn't mean the same thing.


Are you sure? The information has been filtered through the brains of a journalist before ending up in print...


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## r1lee

one of the guys (Manager) at my LBS went to the Giant show this past week. Initially we had agreed that the giant paint schemes were rubbish for 2013. He now has done a 180 and says they look way better in person than they do on the internet. "The bikes look gorgeous, they are going to kill it for 2013"... we shall see.


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## Defy

kentkreitler said:


> Are you sure? The information has been filtered through the brains of a journalist before ending up in print...


I'm not correcting the journalist.

Giant bikes Monocoque technology means the front triangle is molded as 1 piece. Then the chain stays and seat stays are connected in a secondary process. This is Giant's definition. I'm just reiterating. 

Modified monocoque means that while the frame is still using the monocoque process, there is a slight modification in which the top finish layer of carbon is replaced by black paint.

who knows how much $ this saves them per bike but it must be significant since they extended it to all three frame levels. Also, maybe it has no performance detriment as they say...It's an aesthetic layer as they describe it. At the end of the day, if you are buying 2013 then you are getting modified monocoque from Giant. 

I personally like the rabobank defy advanced in black... Too bad the team is not that good.


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## hrvatskaTC

any reviews on the Giant Defy 5??? im a noob to this road bike business, and this seems like a great bang for the buck, just want some opinions.. and im 6'3 185 if that helps in finding an XL bike?


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## zappafile123

hrvatskaTC said:


> any reviews on the Giant Defy 5??? im a noob to this road bike business, and this seems like a great bang for the buck, just want some opinions.. and im 6'3 185 if that helps in finding an XL bike?


You probably only need a large sized frame - XL starts are 6,4" from memory. I'd go for a defy 1 with shimano 105: thats the perfect starter bike - decent reliable comportmentry and a nice stiff frame. 
Dont buy the composite frames - they are ****. If you go carbon, start at the "advanced" level. the defy 1 is 1400aud - dont skimp with a cheaper option - if your keen and your going to use it, its worth spending they extra 300-400 dollars for the better spec. Trust me, Ive owned many bikes, race a lot and I work in a bike shop that sells Giant.


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## hrvatskaTC

not trying to go carbon... aluminum bike, carbon fork, and good components, dropping over a $1000 on a bike is quite a bit...just looking for something that will be comfy, affordable, and quality, so im checking out the giant defy and a few others... but with size you'd say just the large then? and i could adjust accordingly with a good youtube vid?


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## zappafile123

hrvatskaTC said:


> not trying to go carbon... aluminum bike, carbon fork, and good components, dropping over a $1000 on a bike is quite a bit...just looking for something that will be comfy, affordable, and quality, so im checking out the giant defy and a few others... but with size you'd say just the large then? and i could adjust accordingly with a good youtube vid?


I'd try to get a proper fit session. That way you'll make sure you dont injure yourself from having an incorrect set up. Most bike shops should do this for you. the Defy three is the entry level kit with sora and its 1$000aud. The new sora is definitely a lot better than the previous generation. My suggestion for entry level biks is to go for either Giant or Specialized... 
Oh, and the other bike which is really fantastic for the price is the Ridley Icarus (my girlfriend owns one). They are about $900 online with tiagra... Ithink they've stopped making them... they just have a really lovely ride quality and look nice. In fact, I think the Icarus is better than a Defy.


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## sgonzo2k

hrvatskaTC said:


> not trying to go carbon... aluminum bike, carbon fork, and good components, dropping over a $1000 on a bike is quite a bit...just looking for something that will be comfy, affordable, and quality, so im checking out the giant defy and a few others... but with size you'd say just the large then? and i could adjust accordingly with a good youtube vid?


Sounds like your on a budget and you will try to get it cheap and probably online. That is fine, believe me I understand, but like previous poster said try to go for the defy 3 at least. As far as you trying to fit yourself, my only suggestion is to buy it off a LBS. Most of them will give you the basic fit for free if you buy the bike off of them. Then you will have a starting point to play with the bike yourself. Good luck to you.


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## hrvatskaTC

alright, i live in portland area, so finding a bike shop isn't hard, and i plan on just about going to everyone, and trying out different bikes, deals, etc, which will ultimately guide my decision


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## wfo#1

sorry if this is in the wrong place but I bought a 2011 giant defy 3 in XL. why would they put 172.5mm crank arms on a XL bike. you would assume they would be 175mm. thanks


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## Sun Rider

That is odd. My '12 Defy Advanced 0, size L, came with 175mm cranks.


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## CasinoKiD

***PAID SPAM** 2013 Giant TCR Advanced 1 for sale*

I'm a selling a 2013 Giant TCR Advanced 1 in the classified section.


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## mig9

zappafile123 said:


> I agree totally. Giant have got everything all wrong. the bikes look like cheap wannabe serious bikes. They seriously need to revamp their road line up. Because in all honesty when you see a roadie on a giant you think newbie. When in fact, I think the tcr advanced is at least on par or better than my look 585 ultra and definitely better than my cervelo SLC. They need to change their image to get the credit they deserve.


Gotta remember that the graphics are actually designed by their Dutch designers, guess they are going for the ultra modern and simple feel. I talked to one of their tech center guys in Taiwan and he agreed with the complaints most people have about the looks, and believe that it is better to bring the graphics back under one roof with the rest of the team to create a better look.


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## hansie

Sun Rider said:


> First impression is it works very well. The shifts are quick and positive. I'm strictly a recreational/fitness rider so the Di2 is neat to have on the bike but I'd be just as happy with the mechanical shifters.



I have Di2 on my tcr advanced sl isp frame, it works like a charm, will never go back to manual shifters anymore


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## darwinosx

Sun Rider said:


> That is odd. My '12 Defy Advanced 0, size L, came with 175mm cranks.


So did my Defy Advanced 2 in the same size. I would have preferred 172.5


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