# Why can't we all just get along......



## bikerbert (Jan 28, 2005)

A buddy and I went out today on our MTB's and used Foothill, Alpine, Portola and Skyline as part of our off road route. I'd say only about 10% of the folks on road bikes we waved at or said hi to acknowledged our existence. :idea: 

This is about 50+% lower than when I ride my road bike. Yes, I've actually conducted my own little sociology experiment with this because I think it is hilarious that a MTB on a paved road makes you a non entity.

This had me thinking:
"Hmmm, my bike has two wheels, their bike has two wheels. Sure, my tires are a little bigger, but that shouldn't matter. They both roll forward, what gives?":idea: 

We were even wearing roadie apparel, and still "NO SOUP FOR YOU." We even had people passing us as fast as they could uphill as if to say "silly boys, your little fat tire contraptions have no place on pavement, and I'm going to show you......" We dropped all but two riders who tried this.:thumbsup: 

So, long story short, where in the annals of bicycle history did people on MTB's become the Hatfields, and road bikers become the McCoys? I love riding both, so what gives? I have met a ton of nice people riding, but this little culture clash baffles my mind.ut: 

Even with the blessing of Phil and Paul (Mountain Bikers have "superior skills to handle their machines on descents") during Tour broadcasts, we still are unloved. Sighhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh........


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## johnny99 (Apr 2, 2004)

If you want to talk to someone then pull up along side them and say "hello". There is a huge difference between not waving at someone and a hate crime.


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## bikerbert (Jan 28, 2005)

we did each time if we passed someone and when we got passed. hate crime? es-splain this to me lucy.....


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## johnny99 (Apr 2, 2004)

"Why can't we all get along" is what Rodney King said after a violent gang cracked his skull, right? Using that phrase for something petty like waving is disrespectful.

If you want to actually be friendly, don't just say "hi" as you pass. Slow down to their speed and wait for a response. If you're just blowing by everyone (or vice versa), you can't blame people for not hearing what you are saying.


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## bikerbert (Jan 28, 2005)

Wow, Rodney King, that's good knowledge.:thumbsup: "Holy random VH-1 Behind the Music blast from the past reference Batman!"

1) I believe he actually said "can't we all just get along," and 2) it is hard to blow by someone on a road bike riding a 25-30lb Mountain Bike on 26x2-2.3 tires. Physics affecting rolling resistance and what not.

I always use a "hello" when I pass, takes more effort, and I've actually found gets a much more frequent response. 

At any rate, I'm still waiting for someone to answer the question of why there is a cultural divide between MTB riders on the asphalt and roadies. Hopefully someone can give me a good for instance example, or at least a decent explanation. 

Let's focus here people!:thumbsup:


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## spineasy (Oct 8, 2007)

Seriously?!?!? that is being disrespectful??!? the whole point is simply that roadies tend not to acknowledge mtn bikers which is a fact. Is that a generalization? yes, absolutely. is that the case for all roadies? no. however, it is funny and sad that alot of roadies will not acknowledge a wave or hello because its coming from a mtn biker. I ride and race both mtn bikes and roiad bikes and I have seen this as well. So... johnny99 do you ride both as well?


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## bikerbert (Jan 28, 2005)

I wanted to ask that question too. I race both as well, and I think it is a culture thing for sure for whatever reason. The crits I do are a lot less social that the MTB races. Teammates talk, but short of that not too much. The MTB races everyone is a friend it seems. In fact, when my wife did her first beginner class race this year, everyone congratulated her just for finishing and told her they were psyched she out there trying. You don't get much of that on the skinny tire side of life.


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## velogirl (Oct 14, 2005)

Al, I've noticed the same roadie snobbiness but in a different context. If I'm on my road bike wearing my team kit, everyone in a team kit waves and says hello -- even when I don't initiate it! If I'm wearing a club jersey, I get snubbed by about 75% of the other "team" riders out there. 

That's one of the reasons you've seen me @ more mtn bike races than road races this season. I'm over the roadie mentality these days.


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## mohair_chair (Oct 3, 2002)

Declaring a cultural divide between road and MTB doesn't make it so. Almost everyone I know who rides seriously does both.

Also, I think you need to get over yourself a bit. You want everyone to acknowledge you. You want no one to try to drop you. You want to ride MTB in roadie apparel, so everyone knows you are better than they are, because you won't be dropped, except for two people. 

Give me a break. I'm sure your arrogance and need for validation had something to do with people not talking to you.


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## johnny99 (Apr 2, 2004)

mohair_chair said:


> Declaring a cultural divide between road and MTB doesn't make it so. Almost everyone I know who rides seriously does both.
> 
> Also, I think you need to get over yourself a bit. You want everyone to acknowledge you. You want no one to try to drop you. You want to ride MTB in roadie apparel, so everyone knows you are better than they are, because you won't be dropped, except for two people.
> 
> Give me a break. I'm sure your arrogance and need for validation had something to do with people not talking to you.


+1

When you're riding on the road, you need to worry about debris on the road, pot holes, passing cars, cross traffic, stop lights, etc. Waving at strangers is pretty low on the priority list. I do try to say "hello" to everyone I pass, both to be friendly and also so that I do not startle them. I do not expect a greeting in response since, for safety reasons, I prefer to pass quickly on narrow or busy roads and by the time they think about responding, I may be too far away to hear them.


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## MerlinAma (Oct 11, 2005)

bikerbert said:


> We even had people passing us as fast as they could uphill as if to say


"As if to say"?????

So you could read their mind?

Who cares? Enjoy your ride and get on with life.


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## bikerbert (Jan 28, 2005)

Just an observation people, tranquilo. There seems to be more ferver in the responses than the original post. An obvious chord has been struck. Now if I said all road riders are obnoxious snobs or something to that effect, then I could see some adimant responses. 

I've been on enough group road rides and raced enough to know what a look means as someone passes you. So I can accurately gauge that.

Ride your road bike, have fun. Ride your MTB have fun. There is a difference, it exists and won't cause me to lose sleep. I think it its dumb to chat to/waive at someone based on their laundry or choice of bike, but cest la vi, que no?

Love,
Uber Super Dooper Ego Guy


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## DukeHorn (May 16, 2007)

When I work my way over to Foothill from Mountain View, everyone is pretty friendly. Once you get on Foothill and head to Portola, it changes. That's OK, I'm out for exercise anyway, but the two guys in full Webcor kits that snickered at me as I was working my way back home, I could do without that attitude.


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## bikerbert (Jan 28, 2005)

That's funny, I've been "big leagued" by people in the same uniforms riding by them in the registration area at a race. It used to bother me, but I now expect it, and when they say hi, it surprises me. That's why I always make a point to say "hello" to people when I ride to restore the faith!


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## mytorelli (Dec 19, 2004)

me and a friend noticed that a lot of people dont wave hi to others now a days either...


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## jetdog9 (Jul 12, 2007)

Tangent, but we used to ride Redwood and Joaquin Miller in college alot, but the ride would start near campus and we'd ride all the way up Tunnel and then Skyline maybe or whatever... it always bothered me that I was riding on my gazillion dollar MTB tires on the road, and that I was always freaking tired by the time we actually got to where we wanted to be.

I think I'll throw the slicks on the old Mongoose soon and try this experiment myself...


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## RedRex (Oct 24, 2004)

" If I'm on my road bike wearing my team kit."



I stay away from anyone in a team jersey, too much drama.


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## X513 (Mar 20, 2006)

*Shouldn't reply, but*

From my 20+ years road/dirt - my humble thoughts:

1) MTBers name for Roadies is Roadie Scum
2) Roadies call MTBers F'n Mountain Bikers
3) Roadies who think they are or are strong, rarely acknowledge other Roadies not in their group (of course this is when they are going in opposite directions - otherwise they attack or get dropped).
4) Recreational Roadies and Roadies past # 3, wave, say hello, etc. to just about everyone.
5) MTBers generally acknowledge all, yet some of the less experienced rider's trail edicate is less than desired. 
6) I am faster on road on my road bike.
7) I am faster on dirt on my MTB.
8) I have passed road riders on my MTB when they really didn't care or were done.
9) I have been passed by MTBers on my road bike when I really didn't care or was done.
10) We all have two wheels, just momentary issues.

Am I rambling?


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## smw (Mar 7, 2006)

Im gonna go ride my bike now.:idea:


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## Merlin (May 6, 2002)

I also ride & race both road and mtb. For the most part roadies are not as friendly, but who really cares? Also, I live in the foothills and everyone waves to each other because you hardly ever see another CYCLIST. Ive done 2-3 rides when I visited the south bay and could not believe how many road bikes there were, hundreds! If I was riding there all the time I would not bother saying hello to too many riders either. There is just too many of them.


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## wipeout (Jun 6, 2005)

Lets see... When on my Ninja, I'm suppose to wave to other motorcyclists. When in my Corvette, I have to wave to other C6's. When in my Touareg, I'm suppose to wave at other Eggs. When on my road bike, I'm suppose to wave at other roadies and mtbers. Damn, that's a lot of waving I'm suppose to remember... Tell ya what, I'm waving at y'all right now to make up for the waving I missed on the road.


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## MayGirl (May 12, 2006)

*Seriously, why should we care?*

I think the fervor of the responses have to do with the fact that the OP was, indeed, trying to place blame for something that may not be blame-worthy. So of course people feel moved respond. Also, it's another example of the overall "problem" that seems to be in the minds of many and ultimately leads to ridiculous us-vs.-them debates. 

If I'm not concentrating deeply on my efforts and someone waves, if it's convenient/safe for me to do so, I'll return it. But if I don't it has nothing to do with a judgment about that person. I agree that anyone who thinks it does is being way too self-absorbed or insecure. There are many reasons (as many have stated above), and many valid reasons, for not being moved to wave back and most have nothing to do with the wave-initiator. 

Case in point: usually, when I'm on Foothill, I'm doing one of three things: an easy recovery ride, ending a very long challenging ride, or doing sprint intervals between lights. Chances I'm doing the latter two, I'm in pain (albeit the good rewarding kind) and not particularly caring about waving to random people around me. Hell, I probably don't even notice as my heartrate is possibly max'd. And if I safely blaze pass you while doing, say, the sprint workout, it, again, has nothing to do with you if I don't say anything or do anything to acknowledge your existence. Why don't I? Again, for many factors that have (brace yourself) NOTHING to do with you, what I think of your bike, etc. Hell, you could be my boyfriend (whom I love dearly) and at 192 bpm I'd not give a crap about waving as we pass.

Why should I just because we are both on bikes (regardless of what kind) and take attention away from what I'm really out there to do? When I'm in the gym and in my pain zone I don't wave at all the other people on the same machines as I am. When I'm at the ob/gyn waiting for my annual I don't feel some need to wave and to all the other women in the waiting room because we all have vaginas that are about to be checked up on. And this, I don't believe, necessarily means I wish them ill or look down on them or whatnot.

Could the Webcor riders actually, perhaps, be having a conversation between themselves that caused the chuckle? Crazy I know...Or maybe those two were laughing at you and then, yeah, they suck. But then grow a pair and don't care.


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## bikerbert (Jan 28, 2005)

I honestly don't care either, and it never ruins a ride. I expect it so that way when it does happen, I'm pleasantly surprised. The main reason I wave to people/say hello on the road is because of the stereotype of people riding in kits being perceived as stuck up shmucks. I've actually had people tell me they were surprised I said hi. I'M TRYING TO HELP HERE PEOPLE! 

Regularly riding with people who can drop you at will to get stronger is probably not the choice of the insecure BTW IMHO. So insecure/my father didn't love me so pretty please with cherries on top VALIDATE ME PLEASE OR I'LL BURN ANT TRAILS WITH AEROSOL CANS AND A LIGHTER!! is not the accurate way to view the original post. 
But thank you all for the good laughs at that! Curiosity on the other hand is the proper way to view the question posed. 

I am also on Foothill (as well as MTB training rides off road) doing the same type of intervals quite a bit (or suffering uphill in which case being sociable is a moot point), and you can easily tell when someone is trying to bury themselves for training purposes. In which case, you'd have to be insane to take your hands off the bars while in you are in zone 7 anaerobic hell, or recovering from that for the next one. Shoulders heaving up and down, tight tucked aero positions, high RPM's, extremely easy to spot.

The OP was to uncover the mystery as to why one bike gets you recognized, and another one not as much. Not to pontificate on the umpteem million reasons why someone has every right not to say hello, go to H-E-Double-Hockey-Sticks or not to acknowledge the person at all. But hey, the post made you look didn't it? :thumbsup: Perhaps the more "interesting" responses have come from people who have may felt bad for having blown someone off whilst on a ride? Hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm?????:ihih: 

And yep, I'm still waiting for a decent explanation that doesn't include a psychological profile, "I know you are but what am I," or "because I am just too cool to care." Velonews explored this same topic a few issues ago in the "Off the Back" section, so if VN cared enough to send the very best, then perhaps I was on to something in the first place.


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## bikerbert (Jan 28, 2005)

I just caught the OB-GYN Vagina Monologue reference, PRICELESS!! Instead of a "hi" to all of the gals waiting to be explored, I think a "So, whatta you in for?" would be much more appropriate to see how committed to being friendly people are. 

And of course, you'd have to move around the room and sit next to each person as you asked them. But if you REALLY wanted shock and awe, you could use the Seinfeld "close talker" approach with each encounter. Maybe even wear stripes and plaids (or at least a black belt and brown shoes) that day to see how people react to you. But only if you wanted to.

This has Sara Silverman Show written all over it!


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## DukeHorn (May 16, 2007)

Thanks for perpetuating the us vs them stereotype. I need to grow a pair because I put a fairly innocous post on a bike forum thread? 

I guess I should just ignore the guy who was doing a sprint interval on foothill yesterday and decided to pass 3 bikes in a paceline who were passing some pedestrians. Luckily we just rammed shoulders, but he gave me a nice snarl of "On the Left means "on the left"". Errrr, I guess I should just have rammed the mom and 10 year old because you were too lazy to slow down or swing wider.

I guess my interpretation of bike etiquette (hell the traffic laws) has always been the trailing cyclist needs to be situationally aware and adapt his speed to the situation at hand. But, naw, keep on being self-absorbed in your training (and with your ipods on) and ignore basic traffic laws. Because surpisingly enough, when I see red lights being runned on Central Expressway and Foothills, its seemingly always the "serious cyclists".


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## MayGirl (May 12, 2006)

Um, Duke, it's you who is perpetuating the divide by using gross stereotyping.

First: the grow a pair comment was in direct response to your complain about "the two guys in full Webcor kits that snickered at me as I was working my way back home". Yes, perceived mocking (emphasis on "perceived", again perhaps it had nothing to do with you) does make it sound like you being over-sensitive. You shouldn't care what they think and it's sad both if they are, actually, "snickering" at you but also that you even care.

Do you want me to go back into my message and highlight "*safely*" when I talk about passing slower people when I'm training? Or insert the fact that I never listen to an iPod when training? 

My post was responding to the fact that if someone WAVES at me and I don't happen to WAVE back there are reasons why that have nothing to do with me being rude (again, usually it's because I'm, wait for it, concerned with, wait for it, SAFETY -- I often don't even notice the wave since most likely I'm paying attention to more important, oh my, SAFETY-concerned issues like, for example, road conditions or my handling, rather than looking at people waving, but if I do notice, me waving back may not be the SAFEST thing to do).

But, no, you rather just take your new incident (and you are right, that guy did something wrong and there is nothing in my post that would claim otherwise) and transpose it to encompass anyone who "trains". I've never run a stop sign or red light in all of my training. But, sure, if it makes you feel better about (not?) creating even more of a "divide" go ahead and make assumptions about all road cyclists. 

Upholding traffic laws, absolutely a must. Waving back to people, not necessary and sometimes not safe to do so.


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## bikerbert (Jan 28, 2005)

I don't see the safety issue aspect, its not like we're riding Paris-Roubaix cobbles each time out. Foothill is uber smooth, as are most of the places around here. Some city streets are a little rough, but nothing is bad enough to not have enough control of the bike with one hand.

Something like decending Tunitas Creek would be stupid do anything but lift your fingers off the bar like the bike messenger types, but other than that, I don't get it. 

It isn't like we're on technical singletrack heading downhill when we're out on the road. Most objects are small enough that a bunny hop gets you clear of them.


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