# Any love for downtube shifters?



## george kraushaar (Jan 15, 2007)

I'm really enjoying my new Allez Double Steel with downtube shifters. They seem so precise and direct. I'm finding them quite usuable, perhaps because on this bike they're located pretty high up on the downtube towards the headtube, where you don't have to reach quite as far down as some of the older bikes. I do notice that I don't shift quite as much as my brifter equipped bikes, choosing instead at times to muscle up short grades to avoid the shift.

On a recent ride another cyclist like to went apopleptic when he saw my bike equipped with the downtube shifters. I told him that I was riding bikes like that before he was born!


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## OperaLover (Jan 20, 2002)

*They are a nice change of pace*

I have FRICTION DT shifter on my Colnago Tecnos. Suntour Superbe pro with a Campy Chorus front, Daytona rear, on an 8-speed EXA Drive cassette. They are fun once you get used to the feel and the spacing. You can even learn to shift silently to throw people off your tail. However, if you miss shift or have to down shift several gear under load; forget about it. 

It's like shifting an older sports car with a clutch and shifter on the floor rather than a more modern car with a clutchless transmission and paddle shifters. 

Takes me back to my youth and my first 10-speed with Simplex drs and friction shifters.


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## Gnarly 928 (Nov 19, 2005)

It's like shifting an older sports car with a clutch and shifter on the floor rather than a more modern care with a clutchless transmission and paddle shifters.
Takes me back to my youth and my first 10-speed with Simplex drs and friction shifters.[/QUOTE said:


> I don't know about that comparison..the paddle shifter vs the clutch and stick...
> 
> That might be more accurate for one of the bike electric systems...the paddle shifter comparison..
> 
> I have a retro frame that I recently re-assembled. First with the 8sp Superbe Pro indexed downtube shifters in place...While they worked perfectly, I found them to be a huge step backwards. Stuck on some Dura Ace 9sp that I had extra and I enjoy riding that bike again. I find it slows me down and takes away energy and momentum when I have to let go the bars and reach down for a shift, then re grab the bars and go again...And shifting while standing on the pedals is totally out..almost...I recall I used to race that 8sp and I could upshift...keeping a big load on the chain...then stop pedaling for just a second and the shift would happen...used that to 'sneak' some sprint wins...back in the day..


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## FatTireFred (Jan 31, 2005)

yup, 1x9... make that shifter


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## wooglin (Feb 22, 2002)

No brifters in this house, and clicky shiftng only on mountain bikes.


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## Dave Hickey (Jan 27, 2002)

wooglin said:


> No brifters in this house, and clicky shiftng only on mountain bikes.



+1....All my geared road bikes have downtube shifters


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## stelvio1925 (Oct 29, 2008)

+1 here. My recent build last summer was my 1st DT friction shifter since 1995 . After I got used to the 6 cog cluster's spacing & the pull of the levers I found I didn't really need to shift as often on the same roads as I did on my 10 speed brifters, and I just adapted to the gearing, too. 

Now I'm thinking I'm going use friction shifters in my next bike build. As long as its friction shift , I can use it with a 10 speed group. I know it will take more rear lever pull to move the rear derailleur across the cluster, despite the larger diameter of the C Record levers.

It's fun getting the direct feel of gear change. As long as I'm riding alone I wouldn't mind riding this way. Until I get used to shifting without wobbling too much I'll probaby stick with the brifters on my group rides.


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## buck-50 (Sep 20, 2005)

I ride better with DT shifters.

If I've got brifters, I shift too much, I run out of gears on hills. I'm kind of an idiot with brifters.

But DT shifters, love 'em. I gotta think before I shift, gotta think if I really want to shift, if i really need to shift- most of the time, it turns out, I don't actually need to shift. 

Plus, they're light and cheap. 

love 'em.

And, you can dump an entire cassette in one shift. It doesn't come up often, but when it does, it's nice.


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## wim (Feb 28, 2005)

*Full circle.*

All that's left in my garage is a steel DT friction shift and a steel fixed gear bike. STI, Ergo, carbon, what not—all gone and not really missed.


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## Mapei (Feb 3, 2004)

Yeah, they're fun, but as Gnarly and Opera say, they are definitely a more clumsy and perilous way to shift. After riding with friction shifters (both down-tube and bar-end) for 30+ years, my switch to Campy Chorus 10 in Year 2000 was a revelation. 

And stelvio -- I have a feeling that friction-shifting a ten cog rear could be mighty tricky. Like only having a coarse focusing adjustment on your high-powered binoculars or microscope. Or doing target practice with spitballs.


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## deadlegs2 (Oct 3, 2009)

DT shifters are a whole other world compared to brifters..Shifting in a fast pack or shifting during climbs between standing and sitting all the while holding a straight line are things old schoolers did with ease.. Muscling a gear to avoid a shift would surely be a nice thing to forget about forever..Watch 80s tdf videos or any other race and see how they would sneak a shift so their rivals didn't notice. In the middle 80s many pros even shunned index shifters because of the give-away noise they made.


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## george kraushaar (Jan 15, 2007)

I'm going to use the Allez on all my solo winter riding this year. I might try it on some of our slower group Sunday rides as well. I've ridden a lot longer on DT shifters than I ever did on brifters (I only went to them about 4 years ago). They still seem very natural. I still prefer clutches and floor shifters on my cars, although my wife insists on automatics.


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## moschika (Feb 1, 2004)

stelvio1925 said:


> +1 here.
> It's fun getting the direct feel of gear change. As long as I'm riding alone I wouldn't mind riding this way. Until I get used to shifting without wobbling too much I'll probaby stick with the brifters on my group rides.


that's my take on them too. i like the feeling of the mechanical movement of the levers and feeling the change in gears. the bikes with DT shifters i tend to ride on solo rides, but on a group ride where we're pacelining or riding close together on tight roads, i wouldn't feel comfortable or safe reaching down to shift.


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## kiwisimon (Oct 30, 2002)

Latest acquisition a 1975 Gazelle will get DT shifters this weekend. If I were racing then no questions brifters. My kind of riding, it doesn't really matter.


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## tarwheel2 (Jul 7, 2005)

I like DT shifters and started riding when that's all there was. However, I prefer STIs for group rides because it's much easier to maintain a consistent speed in a paceline. For riding alone, particularly on not-so-hilly roads, down-tube and bar-end shifters are great. 

With the price of STIs these days, if my Dura-Ace shifters crap out again, I am just going to replace them with DT or barend shifters. Although STIs are certainly easier to ride with, they aren't worth $300+ to me anymore when I can get DT or bar-ends for $60 or so.


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## terbennett (Apr 1, 2006)

buck-50 said:


> I ride better with DT shifters.
> 
> If I've got brifters, I shift too much, I run out of gears on hills. I'm kind of an idiot with brifters.
> 
> ...


+1. I couldn't have said it better myself.


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## terbennett (Apr 1, 2006)

There's a lot of love for DT shifters. In fact, Shimano continued making DT shifters ala Dura Ace. One of my buddies wanted to update his 1989 Bianchi with a 10 speed drivetrain. He was about to go with STIs until I noticed a guy selling a 2009 steel-framed bike with 10 speed downtube shifters. I called the seller to confirm this. Sure enough, they were in fact 10 speed DT shifters. The seller even gave me the part number for them. My buddy went to his LBS and told them about the shifters. At the time, they were searching for them on the Shimano website but to no avail. However, when the LBS searched with the part number, the shifters appeared on the screen. Not sure if the new 7900 group will offer them but the 7800 Dura Ace group did. Safe to say that the 7900 group will offer them again (or they'll continue the 7800s) since DT shifters are so versatile. I think that Campy also offers DT shifters for their Record group. Yeah, DT shifters still have a huge following among cyclists but more newer bikes have STI because they are sold with them. The STIs are great but you can feel the weight of them when you're riding- especially if you take your hands off of the handlebars. I also notice that I shift more with STIs as well.


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## tihsepa (Nov 27, 2008)

I like DT's or bar-cons but thats it. People I ride with think I'm crazy. I like the feel though.


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## FatTireFred (Jan 31, 2005)

terbennett said:


> There's a lot of love for DT shifters. In fact, Shimano continued making DT shifters ala Dura Ace. One of my buddies wanted to update his 1989 Bianchi with a 10 speed drivetrain. He was about to go with STIs until I noticed a guy selling a 2009 steel-framed bike with 10 speed downtube shifters. I called the seller to confirm this. Sure enough, they were in fact 10 speed DT shifters. The seller even gave me the part number for them. My buddy went to his LBS and told them about the shifters. At the time, they were searching for them on the Shimano website but to no avail. However, when the LBS searched with the part number, the shifters appeared on the screen. Not sure if the new 7900 group will offer them but the 7800 Dura Ace group did. Safe to say that the 7900 group will offer them again (or they'll continue the 7800s) since DT shifters are so versatile. I think that Campy also offers DT shifters for their Record group. Yeah, DT shifters still have a huge following among cyclists but more newer bikes have STI because they are sold with them. The STIs are great but you can feel the weight of them when you're riding- especially if you take your hands off of the handlebars. I also notice that I shift more with STIs as well.




pretty sure campy does NOT currently offer dts, unless that is new this yr (although I doubt this given 11s)... they still make (made?) 10s bar ends, which can be jiggered to dts or you can convert some older dts to 9s/10s (not sure on 11s)


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## JaeP (Mar 12, 2002)

I guess it depends on what kind of riding you're doing. Most of my bikes (steel) have DT shifters. Club rides, centuries, MTB rides and weekends rides with my buddies etc., DT shifters are fine. 

My race bike has STI. Gotta have STI for racing!


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## SystemShock (Jun 14, 2008)

deadlegs2 said:


> DT shifters are a whole other world compared to brifters..
> 
> Shifting in a fast pack or shifting during climbs between standing and sitting all the while holding a straight line are things old schoolers did with ease.


+1. Hate to say it, but hearing the brifter crowd whine about how shifting with DT levers is "unsafe" or omigod-so-hard or ZOMG-it-just-breaks-my-rhythm-sooooo-much sounds a tad... ahem... 'girly'. :lol: ..

Especially considering how good the old-skoolers got with friction shifters back in the day... geez guys, it was never rocket science, just practice.

My next bike will probably have friction DT levers... now if I could only find a pair of something like _*these*_...


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## OperaLover (Jan 20, 2002)

Gnarly, my point was with FRICTION DT shifters it takes some timing and finesses like driving with a clutch. DT shifters with indexing are much easier in that every click is a gear; no feel necessary. This summer I commuted primarily with the friction DTs. Nothing like passing a plastic bike on an old school ride. 
For the record, I have DT friction (superbe pro), DT index (Dura-ace 8spd), Bar-ends (DA-9), Brifters (Record-10). I have also used shimano brifters (Ultegra). All work, just differently. Switching between bikes can be confusing for the first half mile or so.


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## rcnute (Dec 21, 2004)

You wants a pair of Simplex shifters? I think they're retrofriction. PM me with ye email and I sendee photo.



SystemShock said:


> +1. Hate to say it, but hearing the brifter crowd whine about how shifting with DT levers is "unsafe" or omigod-so-hard or ZOMG-it-just-breaks-my-rhythm-sooooo-much sounds a tad... ahem... 'girly'. :lol: ..
> 
> Especially considering how good the old-skoolers got with friction shifters back in the day... geez guys, it was never rocket science, just practice.
> 
> My next bike will probably have friction DT levers... now if I could only find a pair of something like _*these*_...


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## Mapei (Feb 3, 2004)

rcnute said:


> You wants a pair of Simplex shifters? I think they're retrofriction. PM me with ye email and I sendee photo.


I've got a pair of retro-frictions on my 1985 Somec. Almost make friction shifting tol'able.


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## e39540is (Apr 10, 2009)

No brifters here either. 

Two single speeds, two roads with index DT, and the rest are friction DT. I will admit that I miss the convenience of STI, sometimes, but I am getting better at shifting, and being smooth while shifting. Like some others have said, I find that I shift less often. I dont have a problem with that though, from ridding single speeds.

To the OP, congrats on the Allez Double Steel, I think that is a great looking bike. Glad you like it.


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## fazzman (Mar 12, 2008)

I have them and like them. Well its all i have, got a cheap old bike just to get into the sport to see if i would like it. Its a 87 Schwinn, came with friction 7 speed. After a few months i upgraded to 9 speed dura ace index shifters, 105 rear, and ultegra cassette. I ride the bike fine with the B and +B groups. In Florida its not to bad, all flat so i don't have to shift all that much. I do like how the shifting is instant and precise. Next bike will get STIs.


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## Fivethumbs (Jul 26, 2005)

brifters first came on the scene circa 1991. I have videos showing some pros still riding in 1995 with downtube shifters. In the 1993 World Chamionship Indurain wins the sprint for secod place with downtube shifters. Third place went to Olaf Ludwig with Ergo. If your'e good enough with them, they should not be much of, if any, disadvantage.


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## unterhausen (Jul 22, 2008)

I'm using Shimano 9 speed with 30 year old Campy DT shifters. They work fine. The only drawback I see is that I occasionally have to sit down to shift while climbing. I like the fact that I can shift as many gears as I want. I have some brifters, haven't installed them yet.


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## SystemShock (Jun 14, 2008)

rcnute said:


> You wants a pair of Simplex shifters? I think they're retrofriction. PM me with ye email and I sendee photo.


RC's as good as his word. Thanks for teh shifters dude. :thumbsup: 
.


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## crossracer (Jun 21, 2004)

I have two beautiful equipped bikes with brifters, and two older bikes with downtube. When i want to go out for a long, relaxed ride, even in hills i take the classic bikes. I just like the feel of down tube shifters and how the brake levers feel in my hands. Yea i have to think ahead more, but when you know the roads you will be riding its not really a problem.
Bill


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## MotoMan (Oct 18, 2005)

I have Suntour Power Ratchet DT shifters on my Motobecane Grand Touring. Works great, on a suntour ultra six freewheel. I built up a Nashbar road frame a few years ago with Rivendell Silver shifters as barends on a Nitto Mustache handlebar matched with a 8 speed cassette. Love those shifters. Easy to use, adjust, and one can cross match any stuff campy, shimano, doe not matter. One of my bikes has Campy Ergo. It is OK, but friction is more fun either DT or barend. I found on the barends on a Mustache bar was just as quick shifting as the Ergo's.


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## abarth (Aug 12, 2008)

I like down tube shifters but only the one that goes click click click.... The silent one not so much.  How can you not like DT shifters if you like vintage bike? I like the comfort of the STI but hate the look and the fact that it index on front derailleur. Love Ergo for the look, rebuildable and has minor adjustment for the front derailleur. No experience on Sram.


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## greggo (Nov 25, 2009)

I prefer friction downtube shifters because I like the feel of their simple straightforward direct control over the derailleurs...



















I also like that there *isn't* a bunch of *fugly* cable housing strung all over the bike like clotheslines.


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## wankski (Jul 24, 2005)

interesting point.... having recently worked on older bikes, i quite liked the friction fd control.. much smoother and works well compared to the very clunky sram brifter fd i feel.

that said, friction rd not a great thing unless you are very used to them i guess... but indexed, the gear shift quality is as good as any... but yeah, i felt i had to lean down too much and lose composure on the bike too much.. i've been spoilt on sti/ergo i s'pose..


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## greggo (Nov 25, 2009)

Yes, you're absolutely right. 

Being used to them does figure into the equation. I've been riding front triple downtube friction shifter bikes since 1961.


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## OES (Jan 23, 2002)

I like DT friction for the FD but prefer up-top indexing for the rear. After MANY experiments, I now have a SunTour Power Ratchet DT coupled with a 9-speed DA STI on my H20ford. I do get comments.


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## martinrjensen (Sep 23, 2007)

*none what so ever*

I didn't like them when they were almost the only thing going. I used bar end shifters back in the 70's


george kraushaar said:


> I'm really enjoying my new Allez Double Steel with downtube shifters. They seem so precise and direct. I'm finding them quite usuable, perhaps because on this bike they're located pretty high up on the downtube towards the headtube, where you don't have to reach quite as far down as some of the older bikes. I do notice that I don't shift quite as much as my brifter equipped bikes, choosing instead at times to muscle up short grades to avoid the shift.
> 
> On a recent ride another cyclist like to went apopleptic when he saw my bike equipped with the downtube shifters. I told him that I was riding bikes like that before he was born!


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## Kuma601 (Jan 22, 2004)

DT shifters, I shift less. STI, more shifting to stay within an RPM range. Either works fine for me.


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## george kraushaar (Jan 15, 2007)

I took the Allez on the group ride today. After getting a little good natured razzing from the others about my retroness, I found that these shifters didn't pose an issue at all in the paceline. They felt as natural as they always had back in the day.


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## armybikerider (Oct 27, 2009)

I just replaced a Cannondale 2.8 equipped with Campagnolo first generation C-record friction down tube shift levers with a new Lynskey that has Sram Rival integrated shift/brake levers.

I thought I'd miss the DT levers.....the ability to dump the chain across the entire cassette....the "connected" feeling........the weight savings.....the whole retro thing.

((BTW I drive a standard shift 5 speed Ford pick up,,,,,and ride my mountain bike with above bar thumb shifters that are NOT indexed.))

You know what? I'll never go back to dt levers. I LOVE the one finger shits without moving my hands off the hoods.....the speed of the shifts......the effortless-ness.....I find myself shifting more and maintaining cadence without fighting to stay "on top of the gear." Used to be I'd just fight it, and muscle thru too big a gear (or too small a gear) because I didn't want to fool with shifting....not any more.

I'll keep the C'dale retro to use as a roller or stationary trainer bike....but I won't soon be taking it back on the road.

Cool if you like friction DT levers....but I've switched to integrated brake/shift levers (brifters) and I'm not looking back.

David


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## rogerstg (Aug 1, 2007)

No love here for dt shifters either. On a scale of 1-10, I'd rate them a 4 because they are simple, look cool on older bikes and avoid some cable clutter. Brifters I'd rate a 9 and bar ends maybe an 8.


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## Fixed (May 12, 2005)

*Campy*



FatTireFred said:


> pretty sure campy does NOT currently offer dts, unless that is new this yr (although I doubt this given 11s)... they still make (made?) 10s bar ends, which can be jiggered to dts or you can convert some older dts to 9s/10s (not sure on 11s)


I think I have the last model of Campy 10 speed DT shifters on one bike. The rear is indexed, though, without a friction option. My old 1980 Bianchi with Campy DT shifters and 6 speed cassette works perfectly fine, though. I've ridden it in several centuries the last few years and I'm still surprised at how well it works, even compared to a Bianchi 928 SL with full Campy Record 10 speed. I'd guess at most a 1% difference in speed potential, and I don't use the bike for things where that would matter.


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