# Should I buy an AR4 for my first bike with this damn good deal?



## stoutbeard (Apr 8, 2011)

Hi everyone. So, as you can see by my lack of posts, I'm rather new here so please forgive me for my lack of knowledge/posting in wrong area. So! I've been cycling for 4 years now with my urban commuter cheapy bike and MTB. I've been wanting a road bike for a long time now and have developed a decent relationship with my LBS.

I've been looking around for a road bike and originally had a budget of absolutely NO more than $2200 (preferably want to spend somewhere in the $1500 range unless something awesome comes up). I'm a huge fan of Felt and definitely wanna stick by them. After bugging my LBS for weeks, they offered me what I think is a good deal on a 2011 AR4. MSRP is about $3800. They are willing to give it to me for $2600 new. 

Because I don't know a TON about bikes and what makes something super expensive vs not really expensive, my question is this: Assuming this 2011 AR4 is a good deal, should I go for it? I mean, will I notice a difference between this and say, a Z85/6? My gut instinct tells me to go for it off principle of a good deal, but I don't know if I'd really appreciate the AR4 because I'm not even sure I can tell the difference between super expensive bikes and cheaper bikes. Would it be wise to invest in something like this for the future? Can I utilize the AR4 frame more than say other cheaper frames later on if I ever decide to race? I don't know. 

Currently, I don't have much interest in racing, I just want to have fun and enjoy cycling. Maybe I will wanna enter a few races when I get a tad older and out of college. 

My sole reason for buying a road bike is to ride long distances (75+ miles), riding up and down mountains (I live in a mountainous area) and possibly commute back and forth to work/friends house/local places.

Of course, ANY advice/recommendations are appreciative. 
Thanks.


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## Don4 (Jul 29, 2010)

*Run, do not walk, or better yet, ride you old bike to this shop and BUY THIS BIKE!*



stoutbeard said:


> Hi everyone. So, as you can see by my lack of posts, I'm rather new here so please forgive me for my lack of knowledge/posting in wrong area. So! I've been cycling for 4 years now with my urban commuter cheapy bike and MTB. I've been wanting a road bike for a long time now and have developed a decent relationship with my LBS.
> 
> I've been looking around for a road bike and originally had a budget of absolutely NO more than $2200 (preferably want to spend somewhere in the $1500 range unless something awesome comes up). I'm a huge fan of Felt and definitely wanna stick by them. After bugging my LBS for weeks, they offered me what I think is a good deal on a 2011 AR4. MSRP is about $3800. They are willing to give it to me for $2600 new.
> 
> ...


Welcome. You are in the right place! And I had 2 posts once myself....

Now, this sounds like a heckuva good buy at $2600 bucks. You get Ultegra. You get some very cool Mavic wheels.

The questions you need to ask yourself:

1) Does it fit you comfortably?

2) You mentioned the Z85 or Z6 as other possibilities you have been looking at. Have you ridden them and been able to compare how the feel under you, compared to the AR4? The AR fits between the Z-Series and the F-Series, with the Z being a somewhere more upright riding position, and the F-Series being a very aggressive lower riding position.

3) Depending on your level of fitness, since you have some serious hill work ahead of you, you may want to consider swapping the standard 53/39 cranset for a compact 50/34. And maybe go for a 11-28, or 12-27 cassette swap. My bike shop did it on a straight exchange basis so it didn't cost me extra. On the other hand, I paid full list, am 48 and really needed to do this on my F3. Zach, who posts here often and rides in hilly upstate NY, does just fine with the standard 53/39 crank w/ 11-25 cassette on his F5. My guess he could drop me in a heartbeat on a level road, too! 

4) I love my F3, and my wife loves her Z2. But the first Felts we ever rode were AR2's when the Felt Demo Truck rolled into our LBS last year. Like you, we go on long rides. I loved the AR I rode. I do not hesitate to reommend it!


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## Lou3000 (Aug 25, 2010)

If the bike fits (and I think the AR fits a pretty wide range) it is an amazing deal. Will you see a massive performance boost by jumping from an Z85 to an AR. No, only training can do that. 

Bike buying is pretty subjective. Clearly there are benefits from buying a full carbon, aero bike, with one of the best groupsets money can buy. However, if you aren't racing, you have to make the decision of cost vs. worth for yourself. Can you afford it? Do you want to spend the money? Will you be upset if you spend that much money on a bike?

I ride an F5 and a B16. Lots of carbon, lots of money. I got beat in my first tri by a guy riding a 10 year old Trek 1000 (aluminum). Did I care. No. For me I'm happy with my bikes even if I don't win every event that I enter.


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## Superdave3T (May 11, 2009)

stoutbeard said:


> Hi everyone. So, as you can see by my lack of posts, I'm rather new here so please forgive me for my lack of knowledge/posting in wrong area. So! I've been cycling for 4 years now with my urban commuter cheapy bike and MTB. I've been wanting a road bike for a long time now and have developed a decent relationship with my LBS.
> 
> I've been looking around for a road bike and originally had a budget of absolutely NO more than $2200 (preferably want to spend somewhere in the $1500 range unless something awesome comes up). I'm a huge fan of Felt and definitely wanna stick by them. After bugging my LBS for weeks, they offered me what I think is a good deal on a 2011 AR4. MSRP is about $3800. They are willing to give it to me for $2600 new.
> 
> ...


Ask about swapping to a compact crankset if hills a greater priority for you.

$2600 is a steal for that, the frame is $2000 alone.

-SD


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## stoutbeard (Apr 8, 2011)

Wow, thanks for the responses!  Okay, so it seems like you guys agree that this is a killer deal, that's good. Supposedly the Z series bikes are more for comfort. I was thinking that is what I would want simply because I'm planning on going for longer rides rather than short sprints. But Don4, you seem to imply that the AR would be just as comfortable on longer rides?

As for riding my other options, yes, I have ridden the Z85/6. Both are so very nice! They feel excellent, but my LBS doesn't have the AR4, or any AR for that matter, in stock for me to test. Would it be a gamble for me to take him up on his offer for the AR4 if I haven't ridden it yet? Will it feel similar as the Z series? 

As for swapping the crankset, I don't believe I'd need to. I'm rather conditioned and do believe I can handle the 53/39. But thank you for the suggestion.


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## dcl10 (Jul 2, 2010)

That's certainly a good deal. However I'd make sure it fits you first, because even if they give you 50% off its not a good deal if the bike does not suit you. The AR also makes some compromises vs the F and Z series in terms of weight, comfort, and stiffness. It's a great race bike, and when cruising at 25+ it holds speed better than almost any road bike I've tried. Felt did a great job with the geometry and it would make a great double duty bike for road racing or TT's.


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## stoutbeard (Apr 8, 2011)

Okay, now I understand the catch. Apparently, the AR4 my LBS owner was talking about was a 2009 model, NOT 2011 model. This makes more sense now. I'm assuming this isn't nearly as worth it huh?  I may just end up going with the Z6 because that felt awesome! 

He did say the AR4 is in my size (61cm, I'm 6'3") and there's one left. Decisions, decisions.


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## zach.scofield (Apr 11, 2010)

Don4 said:


> Zach, who posts here often and rides in hilly upstate NY, does just fine with the standard 53/39 crank w/ 11-25 cassette on his F5. My guess he could drop me in a heartbeat on a level road, too!
> 
> I love my F3, and my wife loves her Z2.


Im not that fast Don. I tend to travel uphill much slower than you may think. I do have a pretty decent sprint but thats it(trying to change the rest). I honestly didnt notice too much of a difference between compact and standard for climbing.

I have ridden the AR4 from 09 and its a great bike. Rides nice. Definately stiffer than the Z. One of the guys we ride with has one. I dont ride fast enough to really take advantage of the aero frameset though.

I have also ridden the '11 Z85, 6 and 5. Absolutely love'd the Z5 but being more of a sprinter type the F won out for me. I find the F a bit stiffer on the initial few pedal strokes of a sprint and also find it to ride almost as smoothly as the Z.


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## Don4 (Jul 29, 2010)

*Yebit...*



zach.scofield said:


> Im not that fast Don. I tend to travel uphill much slower than you may think. I do have a pretty decent sprint but thats it(trying to change the rest). I honestly didnt notice too much of a difference between compact and standard for climbing.


At this point, even my wife can drop me! Holding a 16-17 avg is the best I can do right now, but hauling 250 lb uphill, I need every gear inch advantage I can get right now. Last year, I started out the season having to walk up a 1/4 mile 7% grade. The day I heard my F3 had hit the shop last Sept, I took my '83 Trek that weighs 23.5 lbs and powered it up the 1/2 mile 11% grade by my house just to prove to myself I actually deserved my new Felt. I darn near died doing it, but I did it!

But, back to the stoutbeard's topic: I was very impressed with the shock absorption of the AR2 I demoed. Especially when it came to expansion joints. Normally, on my old steel Trek, they would have been pretty sharp and jaring, but the AR damped them very nicely, and this was on Felt TTR Aero profile wheels, which should be stiffer, as well. My F-Series is surprisingly ride compliant, considering the sprinting stiffness of the frame -- it responds NOW when you kick it. The F-Series doesn't like chip and seal -- constant high frequency low amplitude road noise is felt by the rider. This is accurate, but probably an unfair example. I took my F3 on a charity ride the day after I picked it up, an I SWEAR at least 40 of the 63 miles was chip and seal! Suffice it to say in normal riding conditions, the F-Series gives excellent feedback to the rider, and is responsive, predictable, and absorbs sharp, high amplitude bumps confortably.

As for the Z-Series being a "Comfort" bike, I think of it more as a "more comfortable" bike. Make no mistake -- all 3 of Felt's road bike series (Z, AR, and F) can, and have been, raced at a professional level. The company's called Felt Racing, LLC for a _reason_! Let me just close by saying this: My wife spent the past several yearson a Trek Navigator Comfort/Hybrid. It had a front suspension fork, a big gel saddle, a suspension seatpost (!) and actual springs under the saddle (!!), and, wait for it, a handlebar stem that also had built in compliance. She put 3000 miles on that 40 lb wonder last year, 504 miles of it on RAGBRAI, toting probably 20 extra lbs in stuff in her front bag and in the trunk bag on her frame mounted rack. He only complaint about her new Z2, after putting a 1000 miles on it last fall is the lack of storage, and "well, the seat's a little hard". Oh, and she's moved up a ride group on Monday nights. 15 mph used to be pushing it, even with the bags lightly packed. Now, sometimes she's off the front running 20-21, until somebody reminds her Monday's supposed to be a recovery ride....

(See what I mean?)

If she can transition from that hybrid to the Z-Series as happily as she has, then maybe it does deserve to be called a comfort bike...just a very fast, very capable, comfort bike.


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## Don4 (Jul 29, 2010)

Don4 said:


> The F-Series doesn't like chip and seal -- constant high frequency low amplitude road noise is felt by the rider.


Reading back over that part again, I want to clarify something. In the quote above, I make this almost sound like a bad thing. It is not. A high performance bicycle, built for racing, as is the Felt F-Series, _should_ exhibit excellent road feel. This "road feel" communicates to the rider what is happening, literally, where the rubber meets the road, and affects rider inputs, from the ones we make intuitively, to the more conscious decisions, both tactical and strategic. It is the mark of a thoroughbred racing machine -- and the Felt F-Series is exactly that.


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## stoutbeard (Apr 8, 2011)

Thanks for the responses again. I still haven't gotten myself a road bike yet but I was testing more bikes out at the shop. I've decided not to go for the 2009 AR4 because it is indeed a little out of my budget and there's no way for me to test ride it without buying it. 

Don4, I like what you said about your f3 bike very much. It seems most people are liking the F series bikes even for longer pleasant rides. Unfortunately again, my LBS didn't have any F series bikes my size . He let me ride some Giant bikes that are supposedly very similar to the F's. I'm still a little confused and think I'm going to hold off until I can get this decision right. The Z5 is a super nice bike but I'd love to compare it the F5 and see what I like more. 

Question: how does one find out if a felt demo is happening in their area any time soon? I'd love to have all the bikes right in front of me to test


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## Superdave3T (May 11, 2009)

stoutbeard said:


> Thanks for the responses again. I still haven't gotten myself a road bike yet but I was testing more bikes out at the shop. I've decided not to go for the 2009 AR4 because it is indeed a little out of my budget and there's no way for me to test ride it without buying it.
> 
> Don4, I like what you said about your f3 bike very much. It seems most people are liking the F series bikes even for longer pleasant rides. Unfortunately again, my LBS didn't have any F series bikes my size . He let me ride some Giant bikes that are supposedly very similar to the F's. I'm still a little confused and think I'm going to hold off until I can get this decision right. The Z5 is a super nice bike but I'd love to compare it the F5 and see what I like more.
> 
> Question: how does one find out if a felt demo is happening in their area any time soon? I'd love to have all the bikes right in front of me to test


Where are you located? I can check on the DemoTour schedule.

-SD


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## stoutbeard (Apr 8, 2011)

Rancho Cucamonga, CA


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## Superdave3T (May 11, 2009)

stoutbeard said:


> Rancho Cucamonga, CA


Wow, small world! Our USA Warehouse is in Ontario. You are a few miles from 10,000s of Felts. We have demos at many local events, I think last week they were up in Thousand Oaks. I'll check for the SoCal schedule. It may be Tour of CA next.

-SD


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## stoutbeard (Apr 8, 2011)

Oh wow rock on! Yea if you can, thatd be cool to have a demo nearby!


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## mcsqueak (Apr 22, 2010)

SuperdaveFelt said:


> Wow, small world! Our USA Warehouse is in Ontario. You are a few miles from 10,000s of Felts. We have demos at many local events, I think last week they were up in Thousand Oaks. I'll check for the SoCal schedule. It may be Tour of CA next.
> 
> -SD


What he means is, show up at the warehouse, knock on the back door, and ask for some demo rides.


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## Don4 (Jul 29, 2010)

mcsqueak said:


> What he means is, show up at the warehouse, knock on the back door, and ask for some demo rides.


Wow. 6.9 miles apart! You aren't kidding "small world". C'mon Superdave! There has to be a way to make this into a documentary short for Felt's YouTube library. You could call it "Stoutbeard in Felt Wonderland". :idea: Talk about a customer for life!


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## 06cvpi (May 10, 2011)

I been lurking for awhile on these forums. Been logging over 500 miles on my AR5 with full 6700's Ultegra. Couldn't been happier with the purchase but around 50 miles my lower back start aching. It's a stiff bike and you will definitely feel every bumps and ripples on the road.


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## stoutbeard (Apr 8, 2011)

Don4 said:


> Wow. 6.9 miles apart! You aren't kidding "small world". C'mon Superdave! There has to be a way to make this into a documentary short for Felt's YouTube library. You could call it "Stoutbeard in Felt Wonderland". :idea: Talk about a customer for life!


Yea, no joke!! That's super cool to be RIGHT NEXT to the warehouse! What a coincidence!


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## stoutbeard (Apr 8, 2011)

06cvpi said:


> I been lurking for awhile on these forums. Been logging over 500 miles on my AR5 with full 6700's Ultegra. Couldn't been happier with the purchase but around 50 miles my lower back start aching. It's a stiff bike and you will definitely feel every bumps and ripples on the road.


Yea, the AR5 seems like a worthy bike for the price I think. However, once Superdave gets me the schedule for the felt demo, I'll be able to decide better then


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## Superdave3T (May 11, 2009)

Don4 said:


> Wow. 6.9 miles apart! You aren't kidding "small world". C'mon Superdave! There has to be a way to make this into a documentary short for Felt's YouTube library. You could call it "Stoutbeard in Felt Wonderland". :idea: Talk about a customer for life!


If I worked in Ontario, you'd be welcome to come by. I'm in the Irvine Tech Center about 60 miles away. Not much here to test ride, but you're welcome to join the lunch ride sometime. 

I'll get that summer schedule in the next few days.

-SD


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## bbwolf (May 12, 2011)

*keep looking*

long time lurker first time poster. I had no intention of buying a felt but after demoing the felt line-up (as an after thought) I decided on the AR5. Nothing matched the AR5 in fit or ride quality. Thankfully the decision was simple, the best bike won. Now please don't laugh at my aero decision when you see me ride by in baggy shorts and hairy legs....ride quality and fit are my measures.

My test rides included the entire Madone line up to 5 series, giant defy advanced (second place) and tcr advanced, as well as fuji and kestrel.


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## Hawkeye16 (Apr 29, 2011)

Just FYI, the Z85 comes with the compact crank set I believe. It also has 105 all around (one step below Ultegra). The only thing you would really want to swap out quick is the wheels if I am not mistaken.

I have the Z85 and love it. My brother has an F85 and it is pretty similar, he likes his bike too.


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## 06cvpi (May 10, 2011)

What if you live near the warehouse say Upland. Does the invitation extends to me too?  



SuperdaveFelt said:


> If I worked in Ontario, you'd be welcome to come by. I'm in the Irvine Tech Center about 60 miles away. Not much here to test ride, but you're welcome to join the lunch ride sometime.
> 
> I'll get that summer schedule in the next few days.
> 
> -SD


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## Ovid77 (Sep 16, 2009)

Felt Bikes are generally value for money. i had a AR4 and recently traded it for a Team edition AR1. ARs are good however i have friends who swear by their F3.


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## Superdave3T (May 11, 2009)

stoutbeard said:


> Oh wow rock on! Yea if you can, thatd be cool to have a demo nearby!



Demo events are updated on our facebook page:

https://www.facebook.com/pages/Felt-Bicycles/148429884198/#!/pages/Felt-Bicycles/148429884198/?sk=events

Looks like the next chance to _see_ the bikes is going to be during the Tour of CA. There's a good chance I'll be joining the crew Wed-Sun. Come on by.


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