# Intentional crashing OK? What is wrong at USAC?



## SpokaneSteve (Aug 22, 2009)

First we have the cheater Jake Keogh who intentionally chopped the front wheel of Rasan Bahati allowed to continue racing without a ban:

http://forums.roadbikereview.com/pro-cycling-race-discussion/jake-keough-cheats-again-277856.html

And now, news today that Jonathan Atkins from Beck Janitorial grabbed another riders bars and took him down.

http://velonews.competitor.com/2012/05/news/intentional-crit-crash-during-speed-week-puts-kendas-isaac-howe-out_216880

Does USAC take rider safely seriously? Are we going to become hockey? Am I the only one pissed off that these dangerous cheaters are allowed to keep riding?

Rant over, Steve.


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## tee-bone (Apr 27, 2011)

It'll be interesting to see what happens with Atkins. On the one hand you have Howe's and his teammates contention that it was intentional (as in grabbed handlebars and dragged him down). On the other, you have Atkins's statement which does not come off as likely from someone who intentionally injured someone. Plus Howe doesn't exactly vehemently deny running Atkins off intentionally earlier. Of course I have nothing real to go on here, but it doesn't seem all that simple a case as I believed when I first read about it (which only had Howe's side).


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## T0mi (Mar 2, 2011)

SpokaneSteve said:


> First we have the cheater Jake Keogh who intentionally chopped the front wheel of Rasan Bahati allowed to continue racing without a ban:
> 
> http://forums.roadbikereview.com/pro-cycling-race-discussion/jake-keough-cheats-again-277856.html
> 
> ...


Common, tell me you never put someone down on purpose. Sometimes some riders just ask for this. When someone do some nasty things and tell you how much he wants to start a fight, there is no other way to get rid of him...

...and it is actually the best way to handle this for the safety of the whole peloton.


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## litespeedchick (Sep 9, 2003)

Atkins says he never took his hands off the bars. I've tried to find some other eye witness account, but haven't seen anything so far. I live about 45 min from where this race took place, so i have hopes of getting a first hand account from somebody eventually.


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## jpick915 (May 7, 2006)

Latest bit of info on this incident.

USA Cycling opens investigation into


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## foto (Feb 7, 2005)

T0mi said:


> Common, tell me you never put someone down on purpose. Sometimes some riders just ask for this. When someone do some nasty things and tell you how much he wants to start a fight, there is no other way to get rid of him...
> 
> ...and it is actually the best way to handle this for the safety of the whole peloton.


According to Eddie B, the right way to do this is to crash yourself too. That way, everyone knows you are a hard man, and you don't give a fawk, and nobody will mess with you again.

Personally, I wish this is the way it is typically done. Maybe that way all the bully, dumbass, jack-tards would just crash themselves out of cycling all together.


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## Dan Gerous (Mar 28, 2005)

Crits... it's like nascar on oval tracks, what would be the interest of watching if it wasn't for crashes?

.

.

Just in case, I'm kidding. While I never raced crits and find them terribly boring to watch, crashing is never a good thing, accidental is not a good thing, intentional is a terrible thing...


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## 32and3cross (Feb 28, 2005)

T0mi said:


> Common, tell me you never put someone down on purpose. Sometimes some riders just ask for this. When someone do some nasty things and tell you how much he wants to start a fight, there is no other way to get rid of him...
> 
> ...and it is actually the best way to handle this for the safety of the whole peloton.


I have raced for the past 10 years cat 5 up to 1,2 and masters and I have never ever crashed someone on purpose, bumbed bars shoulder hips etc, been in some shouting matches and even punched someone (really stupid on my part).

Actually the people who claim to want to fight most just go away when you ignore them. BTW that's BS that its the best way to handle of the whole peloton, unless the two of you drop off the back by your self to engage in your dumb ass crash fest there is a good chance that someone behind you will get caught up in your mess.


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## JohnStonebarger (Jan 22, 2004)

Steve, I find it highly unlikely that you know the intent of any of the riders involved with any certainty whatsoever. As such, calling anyone a cheater seems disingenuous at best. What's your real interest in these cases?

I've raced lots of crits. I might have been intentional crashed once, I really don't know. But in this story the 48 year old "aggresor's" version of the story seems as likely as any other.


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## thechriswebb (Nov 21, 2008)

I grew up very close to there and still live fairly close by in Asheville. I haven't heard a straight story on this yet. 

Unless Atkins just comes out and says "yes, I crashed him on purpose" we will never really know for sure.


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## SpokaneSteve (Aug 22, 2009)

JohnStonebarger said:


> Steve, I find it highly unlikely that you know the intent of any of the riders involved with any certainty whatsoever. As such, calling anyone a cheater seems disingenuous at best. What's your real interest in these cases?


John: A little trollage here perhaps? In any event, of course no one every ever knows the true intent of another person, we have to judge them based upon their actions. The old quote about judging a man by his actions rather than his words is probably most applicable. 

The rules of our sport clearly forbid intentionally crashing or endangering another rider. Per the news reports and videos it seems pretty clear that Jake Keogh's conduct was way over the line, yet he continues to race. 

Given the lack of video of the Atkins/Howe altercation and the fact that USAC claims to have opened an investigation, I'll wait to see the result, with as many riders as there are in the bunch it shouldn't be hard to substantiate either Atkins or Howe's version of what happened.

My "real interest" which I think is pretty clear in my original post is to challenge USAC's application of the rules to these examples of cheating, or "rule breaking". 

I hope we can all agree that the lack of a suspension or ban of Jake Keough after not one but two seperate and dangerous violations of the rules calls into question the degree to which USAC will enforce the rules that allow for safe bike racing. I've yet to see any explanation for the lack of discipline against Jake Keogh.

Does John or anyone else know why Jake Keogh is allowed to ride?

Cheers, Steve.


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## Local Hero (Jul 8, 2010)

There's a guy in my area who is just terrible. He's horribly obnoxious, loud, mouthy and just a bad rider. He's got the wikipedia entry for letting a gap open up. Worse still are his more dangerous moves, like chopping wheels and brake checking riders behind him. I'm surprised that he hasn't crashed anyone out yet. I'm also surprised that nobody has punched him. 

That said, if he ever brings me to the point that I want to take revenge, I'm going to wait until *after* we get off the bikes. Combative antics on the bike are inexcusible and endanger everyone around you. Again, I'll introduce the guy's teeth to my kneecap after the ride -- there's no use risking cracking my carbon bike. 



If you think Keough deserved a ban than surely Bahati earned worse for throwing stuff at the roiling pack on the following lap. 


To the current story: What a complete ass. 

In my opinion, getting run off the road is the fault of the rider who got run off. He could have backed down, lost a few positions, and stayed on the road. Demanding an apology is also stupid -- that's racing. 

Retaliation during the race is also stupid. Take it up after the race. Throw blows if you have to. But don't do it during the race. 

Lastly, the title of this thread is dumb. Nowhere has anyone implied that intentional crashing is OK. An incident in the Dana Point GP from 2009 and something from 3 days ago (that has created enormous backlash) does not create a pattern that indicates "Intentional Crashing is OK."


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## bigbill (Feb 15, 2005)

If you put yourself in the position to be forced off the road, then you get what you deserve. I've seen it on a curving road on a closed course where the pack was taking the straightest route through the curves but some asshat will think there's a gap and end up either forcing himself into the pack causing a crash or go off the road. 

I've never intentionally crashed anyone but I have forced a few wheelsuckers wide on a corner and made them grab brakes. I got taken down at Donaldson Center about 20 years ago by a guy pulling a Ferrari move (sweeping across the pack trying to grab a wheel) and ended up on the pavement with three others about 20 feet from the line. By the time I got myself together and back to the parking lot, one of the guys who went down had already found the offender in the parking lot and put his foot through his rear wheel.


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## aclinjury (Sep 12, 2011)

crit racing seems to have more brawn than brain.


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## stevesbike (Jun 3, 2002)

there's a precedent case 3:35 and reviewed later in footage:


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## earlfoss (Aug 1, 2010)

I think that since they both aren't innocent, they both should get a 1 month suspension. Mostly because it's highly unlikely that without video evidence they will ever figure out what happened from an unbiased source. This way everyone comes away with no lasting damage and USAC gets to make an example out of these two guys. We get to learn again that unsportsmanlike behavior on both sides of the issue will not be tolerated by our sport's organizing body.

This seems to be happening more and more lately. Tilford made mention of a similar altercation in a race in Tx this season and I'm sure anywhere you go there's some moron pro or local hothead who clash with the potential to have something like this happen.


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## SpokaneSteve (Aug 22, 2009)

Just spotted Tilford's blog which touches on this issue here: Bad Few Days for Crashing


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