# Vuelta vs. TdF: Would Wiggins have a harder time in Vuelta?



## aclinjury (Sep 12, 2011)

I thought during the TdF, Wiggins had a relatively easy time. He didn't face much attacks. And a few attacks that he did get form Nibali and Evans,.. didn't last long. For the most part, Wiggins just sat behind the Sky train. If it weren't for his time trial, nothing really stood out in my mind about Wiggins.

But as I'm watching the Vuelta, seeing how Froome is struggling to keep up with the attacks, and as I recall a couple times in Wiggins couldn't keep up with Froome during the TdF.. I'm left wondering if Wiggins would struggle in the Vuelta.

Whatever is the case, the Vuelta is more exciting than the TdF for sure.


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## SFTifoso (Aug 17, 2011)

I think Wiggins would struggle in La Vuelta. Whatever the case though, we need Rodrigrez, Contador, and Valverde in the TDF next year.


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## il sogno (Jul 15, 2002)

Yes. Not enough time trials, tons of mountain top finishes. And yes, this year's Vuelta is a great race.


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## spookyload (Jan 30, 2004)

Especially since Sky isn't controlling every stage. He would definately struggled. With Contador and Andy Schleck in the tour next year, Wiggins better be training hard.


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## AdamM (Jul 9, 2008)

You have to love a stage race that has a stage end with a 2k climb up a 30% grade. 

A while back someone made the observation that Wiggins was able to win the TDF this year by keeping locked onto his powermeter. Two ITT's, plus the route was ideal for his style, because even the high mountain stages we're ridden like time trials. Everything else worked in his favor too. Conti and Schleck missing, Gesinck showed again why winning the TOC is a bad deal for your TDF, Valverde gets his form wrong, Evans got old, Nibali's best domestics were used up by Basso in the Giro. 

I have a hunch next year's TDF route will be a lot different.


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## quadrat (Aug 26, 2011)

Wiggins rode the Vuelta last year, and of the great climbers, only Froome and Rodriguez were present. Rodriguez blew it in the TT losing 4 minutes, and somewhat lost interest afterwards. Froome turned out to be better than Wiggins in the mountains and the TT as well, but SKY changed tactics too late, and Froome lost the GC just by a few seconds to Cobo. If he hadn't been stuck with Wiggins for too long, the Vuelta 2011 would have been his. Wiggins' TT is better this year, but with so many very steep mountains and the super aggressive Contador and Rodriguez around who start the attacks at the foots of the hills, I don't think he could make the Top 5.


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## foto (Feb 7, 2005)

There are 2 (maybe 3 if you count froome) elite climbers in the pro peloton. Those 2 weren't in the tour this year.


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## tazzmacd (Feb 24, 2012)

The TDF didn't have nearly the mountain stages that it has in the past. As others have pointed out it fit Wiggins style perfectly. There wasn't nearly enough people to challenge for the mountain stages this year as in the past.

Next year should be very interesting.


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## jorgy (Oct 21, 2005)

AdamM said:


> You have to love a stage race that has a stage end with a 2k climb up a 30% grade.


No way. I don't even think that's possible for professional cyclists. There might have been short pitches of 30%--very short--but no way was that the average.


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## jorgy (Oct 21, 2005)

Wiggins would be struggling.

I haven't been able to watch any stages, but I am guessing Froome does not have the team support in the mountains like Wiggins did at the Tour. Course with the competition in the Vuelta perhaps the Sky team wouldn't have been as effective.


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## roddjbrown (Jan 19, 2012)

spookyload said:


> Especially since Sky isn't controlling every stage. He would definately struggled. With Contador and Andy Schleck in the tour next year, Wiggins better be training hard.


^ this. Except I don't think there's any training around that could turn him into someone who could live with a Conti attack


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## Deathmoney07 (Aug 26, 2012)

I agree with everyone here...wiggens would struggle, but to compare to the TDF is pointless since wiggens just rode in the sky train so it's hard to judge how well he would do in La Vuelta...


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## aclinjury (Sep 12, 2011)

jorgy said:


> Wiggins would be struggling.
> 
> I haven't been able to watch any stages, but I am guessing Froome does not have the team support in the mountains like Wiggins did at the Tour. Course with the competition in the Vuelta perhaps the Sky team wouldn't have been as effective.


The attacks usually come early at the foots of the hills, and usually 1/3 way in, the Sky team and the rest of the peloton are destroyed, blown apart. Then at 1/2 way in, it's usually just Froome by himself trying to catch Conti and JRod. If the grade is below 15%, for less than 1 km,. Froome can hang with Conti and JRod.

But once the grade gets to over 15% half way in,.. and progresses to 30% at the finish, well that's just ridiculous. It's a bit funny seeing the pro's barely turning their cranks, guys are twisting their bodies and grinding it out just to keep from stalling. lol it's ridiculous. At this point, only Conti and JRod are left.


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## ben_ (Aug 21, 2012)

to put it simply. Rodriguez is a beast on those climbs. He rode past contador like he was a brick wall. interesting to see how he would go in the tour.


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## TiCruiser (Feb 21, 2009)

Which stage had the 30% grade finish?


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## AdamM (Jul 9, 2008)

> Which stage had the 30% grade finish?


Stage 12 

Here's a video of Bauke Mollema being interviewed after the finish : 'Hardest climb in my life'

2012 Vuelta a Espana videos: Stage 12: Bauke Mollema: 'Hardest climb in my life' | www.cyclingfans.com


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## davidka (Dec 12, 2001)

It's hard to compare one rider's performance in the Vuelta and the Tour in the same year. While Wiggins/Sky didn't face many attacks in the TdF, it is also fair to say that they were so strong that the rivals simply couldn't attack effectively. A few of the same guys have gone to Spain but they are clearly not riding at the same level. We will know next year when they're all together in France, presumably at their best.


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## Wookiebiker (Sep 5, 2005)

Wiggins is a good climber, but not a pure climber. He doesn't accelerate well enough to be a pure climber and suffers in the steeper climbs unlike the little guys/pure climbers.

The Tour doesn't have as steep of climbs, which allows teams to control the pace like Sky did this year. They also had a lot of TT's this year which helped Wiggins. All he had to do was not let the others out of his sight and he would put time in them in the TT's...which makes for boring racing.

The Giro and Vuelta both have steeper and more climbs than the Tour.

Basically each GT is different and benefits different types of riders, just as single day races are more suited to different riders...some sprinter, some TT specialists, some climbers.


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## foto (Feb 7, 2005)

haha...Harmon was calling Ten Dam "the Wookie" without qualification today. Like "Wookie 30 seconds down, that's a good ride".

LoL


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## SFTifoso (Aug 17, 2011)

I hope all the big names show up for the TDF next year. Perico is on fire, I hope he rides the TDF.


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## champamoore (Jul 30, 2012)

The time bonuses on the climbs would have multiplied the difficulties Wiggo would have faced in the mountains of the Vuelta. 

TdF this year was the perfect parcourse for Wiggo and Team Sky, and they rode it like it was written for them. The lack to time bonuses for Mountain top finishes didn't hurt them, either.


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## zosocane (Aug 29, 2004)

If the 2012 Vuelta had the TdF's field and quality of teams, Purito (and Contador and Valverde (who rode the 2012 TdF, and got pummeled on GC)) would be strangled by Team Sky. Sky with an in-form Froome and Rogers and Bos-Hog and Richie Port would have laid waste to Team Katusha and Purito. Yeah, Purito would have had a few stage wins here and there with punchy finishes, but on GC it wouldn't have been a contest. Sky would just keep a ridiculously high tempo (the "forcing," as the Italians call it), and either Wiggins or the July version of Froome would control and take GC. And I am not a Wiggins or Sky fan. Just telling it like it is. Not even close.


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## upstateSC-rider (Aug 21, 2004)

SFTifoso said:


> I think Wiggins would struggle in La Vuelta. Whatever the case though, we need Rodrigrez, Contador, and Valverde in the TDF next year.


Wouldn't mind seeing an in-form Hesjedal there too.


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## gubber12345 (Aug 30, 2012)

jorgy said:


> No way. I don't even think that's possible for professional cyclists. There might have been short pitches of 30%--very short--but no way was that the average.


yeah it was just short bursts at 30% and not the avg but loving it at the moment...great veiwing.contador and rodriquez are animals at the climbing


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## foto (Feb 7, 2005)

fornaca68 said:


> If the 2012 Vuelta had the TdF's field and quality of teams, Purito (and Contador and Valverde (who rode the 2012 TdF, and got pummeled on GC)) would be strangled by Team Sky. Sky with an in-form Froome and Rogers and Bos-Hog and Richie Port would have laid waste to Team Katusha and Purito. Yeah, Purito would have had a few stage wins here and there with punchy finishes, but on GC it wouldn't have been a contest. Sky would just keep a ridiculously high tempo (the "forcing," as the Italians call it), and either Wiggins or the July version of Froome would control and take GC. And I am not a Wiggins or Sky fan. Just telling it like it is. Not even close.


Not buying it. Rodriguez has shown he can hang in and catch on even with high tempo and steep climbs. Wiggins would be losing a minimum of 10-15 seconds on each of these MTFs, plus the time bonuses.

The fact that there were no attacking type climbers at the tour played very well into the Sky tactics.


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## RRRoubaix (Aug 27, 2008)

Hard to say- I think you both have excellent points. The TdF was incredibly well suited for a rider like Wiggo. He's not the climber that Rodriguez or Contador are... OTOH, Sky was SO strong that no one dared attack! (So much so, that they seemed to have "help". Yeah, yeah, slower than other years, etc.. But still). 
Now, could they control the peloton in the Vuelta like they did in Le Tour w/ their "A Team"? Hmmm... intriguing thought! 
I doubt it- as well as Porte, Rogers, Bos-Hogg, etc.. rode, I just don't see the Spaniards lying back and taking it, like everyone did in the Tour. I think there would be attack after attack, and probably alliances between the Spanish teams to beat up Sky. Plus there are so many more steep pitches, I don't think the Sky train could control things like they had.

That said, WOW, would I liked to have seen that Vuelta! 

Mebbe Froome should have sat out the Olympics?
Mebbe Froome should have insisted on some of the "A-team" riders?


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## albert owen (Jul 7, 2008)

Wiggins wouldn't have a prayer against the top GC riders in this year's Vuelta. The TdF was won by Wiggins because of the TTs, the lack of serious climbing stages, the lack of serious opposition AND team orders + a crash holding Froome back. 
Froome will regret being a "good boy" twice, last year's Vuelta and this year's TdF, for the rest of his life.


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## zosocane (Aug 29, 2004)

albert owen said:


> Wiggins wouldn't have a prayer against the top GC riders in this year's Vuelta.


Really? Look at how Valverde fared on GC at the 2012 Tour -- he had to become stage-hunter in the Pyrenees. Yep, Contador sat out in 2012, but how did he do in 2011? He rode clean and couldn't keep up with Evans, finishing 5th overall on GC (I don't buy Contador's 2011 participation in the Giro as his excuse for not having form in the 2011 TdF.) 

In the Vuelta you are not seeing any team -- certainly not Katusha -- shred the peloton and the GC competition into these final climbs. You've got all the top GC riders gruppo compatto and then the sub-2-kilometer attacks taking place. Through 16 Vuelta stages, a relatively low number of riders -- 15 -- have dropped out. Over 16 TdF stages in 2012, some 45 riders dropped out. Many of those DNFs at the TdF were guys that didn't make the time cuts because of the brutal pace-setting of Sky. 

Now, if you put Wiggins on Katusha ... I would agree that he would stuggle to find a top 5 position on the Vuelta.


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## foto (Feb 7, 2005)

fornaca68 said:


> Really? Look at how Valverde fared on GC at the 2012 Tour -- he had to become stage-hunter in the Pyrenees. Yep, Contador sat out in 2012, but how did he do in 2011? He rode clean and couldn't keep up with Evans, finishing 5th overall on GC (I don't buy Contador's 2011 participation in the Giro as his excuse for not having form in the 2011 TdF.)
> 
> In the Vuelta you are not seeing any team -- certainly not Katusha -- shred the peloton and the GC competition into these final climbs. You've got all the top GC riders gruppo compatto and then the sub-2-kilometer attacks taking place. Through 16 Vuelta stages, a relatively low number of riders -- 15 -- have dropped out. Over 16 TdF stages in 2012, some 45 riders dropped out. Many of those DNFs at the TdF were guys that didn't make the time cuts because of the brutal pace-setting of Sky.
> 
> Now, if you put Wiggins on Katusha ... I would agree that he would stuggle to find a top 5 position on the Vuelta.


First of all, Valverde crashed out of contention in the first 10 feet of the TDF this year.

Second, watch the highlights from today. Saxo shredded the field on the way into the final climb, and there were attacks going all the way up the hill, including about 57 surges from contador with over 6k to go. Yesterday as well, when it was time for business, Saxo came to the front and put the hurt on everybody. Sorry, I don't think wiggins would have tempo'd his way back to the heads of state that were up the road today.


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## nathanbal (Feb 23, 2009)

fornaca68 said:


> Really? Look at how Valverde fared on GC at the 2012 Tour -- he had to become stage-hunter in the Pyrenees. Yep, Contador sat out in 2012, but how did he do in 2011? He rode clean and couldn't keep up with Evans, finishing 5th overall on GC (I don't buy Contador's 2011 participation in the Giro as his excuse for not having form in the 2011 TdF.)
> 
> In the Vuelta you are not seeing any team -- certainly not Katusha -- shred the peloton and the GC competition into these final climbs. You've got all the top GC riders gruppo compatto and then the sub-2-kilometer attacks taking place. Through 16 Vuelta stages, a relatively low number of riders -- 15 -- have dropped out. Over 16 TdF stages in 2012, some 45 riders dropped out. Many of those DNFs at the TdF were guys that didn't make the time cuts because of the brutal pace-setting of Sky.
> 
> Now, if you put Wiggins on Katusha ... I would agree that he would stuggle to find a top 5 position on the Vuelta.


1. valverde crashed early on and was out of contention so changed to stage hunting.
2. no way contador could back up from the giro last year. that was human brutality on a bike.
3. saxo has been carving the field up at the start of every climb.

general comment - wiggins won the tour because a) so many TT km's... b) his only external threat, evans, was sick... c) no serious mountain stages... and d) froome had team orders. with more mountain top finishes, less TT's and contador, schleck and probably froome (who you can guarantee wont be at sky next year), wiggins has only a very small chance of winning. i would go as far as saying that ASO gifted this year's TdF to Team Sky.


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## spookyload (Jan 30, 2004)

RRRoubaix said:


> Mebbe Froome should have insisted on some of the "A-team" riders?


Uran, Porte, and Flecha are all A-list starters. Zandio, Henao, and Pate hold their own as well. Granted, Porte had DNFd already.


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## Sasquatch (Feb 3, 2004)

Froome already called it. Said Vuelta is much more explosive than TdF. Wiggo would not stand a chance.


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## Ridin'Sorra (Sep 7, 2004)

Sasquatch said:


> Froome already called it. Said Vuelta is much more explosive than TdF. Wiggo would not stand a chance.


This... As of Contador not being a threat in 2011 TdF, well...look at Froome now. Doing two Grand Tours back to back is not easy. 

Yes, Sky could have played tempo on the Vuelta, but they would still have the problem of having to deal with Contador, Purito, Nibali and (just for the sake of fantasizing) Andy Schleck once the road turned more than 10% grade.

Now... Froome supported by the TdF Sky team on the Vuelta, that's another ticket. Better chances there.


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## vismitananda (Jan 16, 2011)

The only thing I could say is that Team Sky will struggle a lot, these "3 Musketeers" as I call them. Will eat them alive in the mountains, and Wiggo+Froome tandem will be devoured, and hoped they didn't participated at La Vuelta.


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## vismitananda (Jan 16, 2011)

The only thing I could say is that Team Sky will struggle a lot, these "3 Musketeers" as I call them. Will eat them alive in the mountains, and Wiggo+Froome tandem will be devoured, and hoped they didn't participated at La Vuelta.


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## ALIHISGREAT (Dec 21, 2011)

aclinjury said:


> I thought during the TdF, Wiggins had a relatively easy time. He didn't face much attacks. And a few attacks that he did get form Nibali and Evans,.. didn't last long. For the most part, Wiggins just sat behind the Sky train. If it weren't for his time trial, nothing really stood out in my mind about Wiggins.
> 
> But as I'm watching the Vuelta, seeing how Froome is struggling to keep up with the attacks, and as I recall a couple times in Wiggins couldn't keep up with Froome during the TdF.. I'm left wondering if Wiggins would struggle in the Vuelta.
> 
> Whatever is the case, the Vuelta is more exciting than the TdF for sure.


Stupid question.. of course he would have a harder time in La Vuelta...


The parcours of the Tour suited him massively due to the large amount of TT miles and the lower amount of hardcore climbing. 

La Vuelta has a lot more climbing.. and a lot less TTing.. so it suits Wiggo less. 

He wouldn't struggle (in that he'd still place well).. but with the time bonuses too he'd not be right up there with J-rod, Bertie and Valverde.


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## aclinjury (Sep 12, 2011)

ALIHISGREAT said:


> Stupid question.. of course he would have a harder time in La Vuelta...
> 
> 
> The parcours of the Tour suited him massively due to the large amount of TT miles and the lower amount of hardcore climbing.
> ...


easy there Einstein, in case you weren't thinking... my line and tone of questioning was meant to be diplomatic and encourage others to give their opinions. :thumbsup:


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## aclinjury (Sep 12, 2011)

Let's hope next year we get to see Froome unleashed and at 100% capacity, along with the likes of Conti, JRod, Shleck, Nibale, etc.. on a hellish TdF course like this year's Vuelta. It would be a race for the ages!


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## quadrat (Aug 26, 2011)

Ridin'Sorra said:


> Now... Froome supported by the TdF Sky team on the Vuelta, that's another ticket. Better chances there.


That doesn't work either. The Sky team doesn't get up the 20%+ climbs the Vuelta is studded with. All team tactics break down on them, and that is intented. The strongest man shall win, not the strongest team drag its number one to the finish.


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## poppy (May 29, 2006)

I don't think Wiggins had a slight chance this year in Spain, with only one TT and all these mountain stages he would have finish off the podium.
Froom is clearly not in the same form he had at the Tour, with his tour form he would have been right there with Purito and Contador, with good TT like he can do he would probably could win the race.
This Vuelta turn to be an epic and giving this year Giro run for its money for the best race this year.
Also with his current form Purito would have demolished the Giro hands down


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## sancycling (Sep 3, 2012)

I think Wiggo would have suffered at the vuelta. Froome is struggling... I think Sky team is super strong at the vuelta for these type of mountains. Rogers, BosHog and Porte are great riders but not for such steep hills. Uran, Henao are great climbers and I think make a better support team for the terrain.
On the other hand, having a Rodriguez, Contador, Schleck and non-crashed Valverde at the tour this year I don't think they would have made much impact on Sky and Wiggins. Rodriguez, Andy and Valverde would have lost many minutes in the time trials so would have lost interest in attacking. Also the mountains were not as steep to give Contador a huge advantage over Wiggins and the Sky train.

Different races for different cyclists. I just think it is admirable how each rider shines in their strengh.

Next year will be interesting. I hope we have a balanced TDF that will make it interesting to watch


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## FlandersFields (Jul 16, 2010)

It's simple. In THIS Vuelta, on THIS terrain with ONE hilly TT Wiggo wouldn't have made it. In THIS past Tour, with THESE past mountains, Contador and J-Rod wouldn't have stand a chance.

I'm just so happy to see cycling (read: Contador) has 'normalised.' As you all can see, this makes racing absolutely exciting. Really, really enjoying this Vuelta.


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## quadrat (Aug 26, 2011)

I don't think Contador was doped. He won the TDF 2010 not convincingly, that was when this minute amount of glenbuterol was detected, 1/400 of an effective dose. I'd say he put on a better fight in the TDF 2011, injured, losing time in crashes, and somewhat tired from the tough Giro a month earlier. And in this years Vuelta he's more aggressive than ever. Gapping someone like Froome by 4 minutes is quite an achievement.


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## aclinjury (Sep 12, 2011)

When the finish is up anything greater than 10% grade, Rodriguez seems to have that final 100 meter kicker sprint that just demolishes everyone. It's ridiculous to see him sprint like that while the rest of the elites (Conti, Froome, Valverde) seem to be on the verge of blowing up. 

In this year's Vuelta, Rodriguez displays the most apparent advantage of being an explosive compact lightweight rider. (Of course being lightweight probably works against him in the TT)


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## quadrat (Aug 26, 2011)

aclinjury said:


> Let's hope next year we get to see Froome unleashed and at 100% capacity, along with the likes of Conti, JRod, Shleck, Nibale, etc.. on a hellish TdF course like this year's Vuelta. It would be a race for the ages!


Not going to happen. The TDF always stays on main roads that don't have very steep gradients, and Giro and Vuelta will continue to use narrow, sometimes unpaved paths. In the Giro stage last year won by Igor Anton that finished on the Zoncolan, there was a mountain descent almost completely boarded for the race with safety netting, but it was taken out in the last minute. The road was so narrow that the cars couldn't go down there. Nor up the Zoncolan. The teams transported spare bike on motobikes, shouldered by the pillion. Watched two motobikes blow their engines during the coverage on TV.


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## vismitananda (Jan 16, 2011)

quadrat said:


> Not going to happen. The TDF always stays on main roads that don't have very steep gradients, and Giro and Vuelta will continue to use narrow, sometimes unpaved paths. In the Giro stage last year won by Igor Anton that finished on the Zoncolan, there was a mountain descent almost completely boarded for the race with safety netting, but it was taken out in the last minute. The road was so narrow that the cars couldn't go down there. Nor up the Zoncolan. The teams transported spare bike on motobikes, shouldered by the pillion. Watched two motobikes blow their engines during the coverage on TV.



Does ASO already released TDF's route next season? Let's just hope that it will have more summit finish.

That stage won by Anton was pure killer, the road was so narrowed that most of the spectators are up to the bushes.


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## Ridin'Sorra (Sep 7, 2004)

quadrat said:


> Not going to happen. The TDF always stays on main roads that don't have very steep gradients, and Giro and Vuelta will continue to use narrow, sometimes unpaved paths. In the Giro stage last year won by Igor Anton that finished on the Zoncolan, there was a mountain descent almost completely boarded for the race with safety netting, but it was taken out in the last minute. The road was so narrow that the cars couldn't go down there. Nor up the Zoncolan. The teams transported spare bike on motobikes, shouldered by the pillion. Watched two motobikes blow their engines during the coverage on TV.


Zoncolan is bestiality. It's bike torture.


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## quadrat (Aug 26, 2011)

Yep. It's got a sign at the bottom, 'hell's gate' in Italian. I liked the Giros and Vueltas of the last years in general better than the TDFs. Not long ago the Vueltas took place mostly on the autobahn trough semideserts between large cities, but now it's gone rural like the Giro. Next year it might not even end in Madrid, but up the Teide on Tenerife.


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## zosocane (Aug 29, 2004)

nathanbal said:


> 1. valverde crashed early on and was out of contention so changed to stage hunting.


But why did he crash early on -- AGAIN -- at the Tour? Because Valverde is rarely at the front, the pace is too brutal and the speeds are too high. Don't give Valverde a pass because he crashed -- the point is that he crashes at the Tour, but not at the Vuelta. Valverde does fine on GC at the Vuelta (he won one Vuelta), but GC at the Tour? He's a no-show.


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## zosocane (Aug 29, 2004)

foto said:


> Yesterday as well, when it was time for business, Saxo came to the front and put the hurt on everybody. Sorry, I don't think wiggins would have tempo'd his way back to the heads of state that were up the road today.


You really think a Wiggins-led Team Sky at the Vuelta would get clobbered by Saxo? No, it would be the other way around. Which is my point: Wiggins with his Team Sky would win this Vuelta. 

Would Team Sky today have let Contador escape on a Cat 3 climb?? NFW.


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## foto (Feb 7, 2005)

fornaca68 said:


> But why did he crash early on -- AGAIN -- at the Tour? Because Valverde is rarely at the front, the pace is too brutal and the speeds are too high. Don't give Valverde a pass because he crashed -- the point is that he crashes at the Tour, but not at the Vuelta. Valverde does fine on GC at the Vuelta (he won one Vuelta), but GC at the Tour? He's a no-show.


So everyone that crashes at the tour has no shot of winning it? Wiggins crashed out of 2011, must mean he has no shot of ever winning it, he is too slow, and that's why he was out of position.


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## foto (Feb 7, 2005)

fornaca68 said:


> You really think a Wiggins-led Team Sky at the Vuelta would get clobbered by Saxo? No, it would be the other way around. Which is my point: Wiggins with his Team Sky would win this Vuelta.
> 
> Would Team Sky today have let Contador escape on a Cat 3 climb?? NFW.


Because I disagree with you doesn't mean I don't understand what you are saying. I get it. I disagree.

Anyway, Contador attacked up to three (3) teammates. Sky riding for wiggins doesn't counter-attack, they ride tempo. No tempo riding would have brought back Contador who bridged up to his own train.


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## Ridin'Sorra (Sep 7, 2004)

fornaca68 said:


> Would Team Sky today have let Contador escape on a Cat 3 climb?? NFW.


True... but then Contador would have laid down the hammer on Wiggins on Cuitu Negru and Wiggins would not had TT'ed a minute over Contador.


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## foto (Feb 7, 2005)

I think the real question is: would Contador have been able to make enough time in the mountains to beat Wiggins' TT at the tour this year?


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## AdamM (Jul 9, 2008)

> I think the real question is: would Contador have been able to make enough time in the mountains to beat Wiggins' TT at the tour this year?


Does Wiggins have a history of beating Contador in TT's?


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## LostViking (Jul 18, 2008)

Stage 17 of the 2012 Veulta:

No way Wiggo follows Conti on this attack - Froome, Andy, Valverde and a few others perhaps, not Wiggo I'm afraid. If A-Rod couldn't do it after his impressive defence, how much chance can we give to Wiggo to follow this kind of attack? Froome almost iced Wiggo during a climb during the TdF, and he's a teammate - Saxo-Tink and Conti would have had Wiggo for lunch today.

Conti is a pretty good TTer as well so Wiggo might only gain seconds on him there - not enough to make up for what was lost on the climbs.


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## Jwiffle (Mar 18, 2005)

fornaca68 said:


> Really? Look at how Valverde fared on GC at the 2012 Tour -- he had to become stage-hunter in the Pyrenees. Yep, Contador sat out in 2012, but how did he do in 2011? He rode clean and couldn't keep up with Evans, finishing 5th overall on GC (I don't buy Contador's 2011 participation in the Giro as his excuse for not having form in the 2011 TdF.)


When was the last time someone won two Grand Tours in a row? Oh, yeah, at least 15 years ago, with "help." YOU don't have to buy Contador's 2011 Giro as an excuse for not performing in 2011 TdF, but that doesn't make it invalid. Between the Giro, and a couple crashes early on that caused him some knee pain (enough so that he almost pulled out on one of the rest days), Conti of course had trouble keeping up. And he still didn't lose as much time as Froome has this Vuelta.



> In the Vuelta you are not seeing any team -- certainly not Katusha -- shred the peloton and the GC competition into these final climbs. You've got all the top GC riders gruppo compatto and then the sub-2-kilometer attacks taking place. Through 16 Vuelta stages, a relatively low number of riders -- 15 -- have dropped out. Over 16 TdF stages in 2012, some 45 riders dropped out. Many of those DNFs at the TdF were guys that didn't make the time cuts because of the brutal pace-setting of Sky.
> 
> Now, if you put Wiggins on Katusha ... I would agree that he would stuggle to find a top 5 position on the Vuelta.


No, you're not seeing the team domination at the Vuelta that we saw by Sky at the TdF, but I don't think you'd see Sky dominate at the Vuelta if they had brought a fresh Froome, Wiggins, and A-team. The parcours at the TdF this year suited a strong team very well, but the difficulty of the Vuelta appears to be taking out a lot of the team factor. In which case, as I see it, you would have had the Sky team blowing apart the peloton, but Conti, Purito, and Valverde would have been hanging on the train, then when it got steep enough the train bogged down, it would have been mano-y-mano as it has been. In which case, I think Wiggins would have struggled, but a fresh Froome might have put in a good showing.


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## c_h_i_n_a_m_a_n (Mar 3, 2012)

Different races to suit different riders ... Makes cycling so much more varied and interesting.


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## quadrat (Aug 26, 2011)

What would team Sky and Wiggins do if Contador attacks at the start of a climb? He's got a long history of doing that, and none but Froome at his best could follow him. Would Wiggins trust his train to pull him back, or go after Bertie himself? One wrong move on five MTF decides the Tour.


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## zosocane (Aug 29, 2004)

Ridin'Sorra said:


> True... but then Contador would have laid down the hammer on Wiggins on Cuitu Negru and Wiggins would not had TT'ed a minute over Contador.


On Cuitu Wiggins limits his losses to 10 or 15 seconds. No big deal. Why? Because Sky keeps the tempo nice and high preventing attacks from far away. And, yes, Wiggins puts a minute or more on Contador in the ITT. It's a different playing field with Pistolero eating spaghetti instead of steak.


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