# Crashes. I've had enough.



## RkFast (Dec 11, 2004)

I think I've seen enough of this type of racing. Crashes happen. But should not happen four times a stage like clockwork. UCI, ASO etc need to realize....no riders.....no race. Its a lesson the NFL and other sports learned and now it's time for pro cycling to learnI. After a while nobody will watch if all the big names get carried off on a stretcher before the event really gets going. The rules must be altered to protect the riders. One less team? Rethought routes? I dunno. But something must be done before someone gets killed. 

Discuss.


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## Salsa_Lover (Jul 6, 2008)

I just said it on the stage thread 

Consider that this kind of massive carnages doesn't happen in the giro, vuelta or other stage races.


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## Kodi Crescent (Aug 3, 2011)

If re-elected, Obama will pass a resolution banning all crashes in the TDF. Just for you.


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## RkFast (Dec 11, 2004)

Kodi Crescent said:


> If re-elected, Obama will pass a resolution banning all crashes in the TDF. Just for you.


Consider in every other sport, when the racing got too fast, the players too big, or the injuries mounted, the sport's governing body took some kind of action to put it all in check. Both to protect the participants and keep the integrity of the sport in place. But with pro cycling as the injuries mount and the peloton starts to resemble a runaway train we shrug our shoulders and go faster? That aint right.

Again, I do not profess to have answers. But the issue must be addressed.


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## Opus51569 (Jul 21, 2009)

RkFast said:


> I do not profess to have answers. But the issue must be addressed.


Then what is the answer? Wider roads for the racers? Fewer sharp corners? No more roundabouts? Rain delays in the case of inclement weather? More/better protective gear? Stiffer penalties for riders who cause accidents through recklessness?

I'm not trying to be a jerk, I'm genuinely curious what the answers might be.


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## AdamM (Jul 9, 2008)

I think the field is just too big for the way they race. Allow each team only seven riders and IMO you'll see a significant reduction in crashes. I also think the racing would improve.


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## icsloppl (Aug 25, 2009)

Adam is correct IMO

I have raced as a cat2 in Colorado during the 80's and 90's. I still ride at a fairly high level. I consider my experience and understanding of what is happening to be very good. I'm constantly amazed that there aren't more major crashes.

The problem is too many riders. The majority of major crashes happpen when a single rider is forced to make an avoidance move and there is another rider already overlapped within a meter of him. If the team size were cut in half, loosing a rider to a crash would also be far more of an issue. It would also make chasing down breaks both more difficult and something that would take a degree of consideration rather than a blind freight train rush.
You can already see this when a major crash occurs, as happens today. After the peloton was cut in half, there were no problems at all through the finish.

You can't impose speed limits, alter the weather, or have them ride only on motorways. To do so would make the tour a sham.


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## moonmoth (Nov 8, 2008)

Eliminate most of the flat stages for the first week or so of the Tour. Instead, put in some real hills to create more room on the road. Sprinkle in some sprinters stages later on in the race, to keep them happy.


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## superjesus (Jul 26, 2010)

I'm not sure what to think. NBC Sports has been running a TdF commercial _highlighting_ the carnage from past tours. I have to wonder if the carnage is really the problem for race organizers and advertisers that we want to think it is.


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## respro (Jun 21, 2012)

I think the gear the riders wear needs to be redesigned. The gear professional motorcycle racers wear prevents them from injury in most cases. I know that aerodynamics, freedom of movement and cooling are major considerations but there has to be a way to keep the riders safer. Speed is not the problem.


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## foto (Feb 7, 2005)

To reduce the crashes, they need to make the first week much harder. But they aren't going to do that because that would eliminate weak teams and sprinters before they get a chance to perform. Which is exactly why there are crashes.


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## moonmoth (Nov 8, 2008)

respro said:


> Speed is not the problem.


David Millar said that they were going 70K/hour when the crash happened. Skeleton-like bodies being hurled around on pavement at that speed will always be a problem. 

Here's Tom Danielson's bike after the crash. Ouch!


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## Lick Skillet (Aug 21, 2011)

Maybe the dope was a good thing huh? Seemed to me that the era of LA had much less carnage, but that just might be my hazy opinion.


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## superjesus (Jul 26, 2010)

moonmoth said:


> David Millar said that they were going 70K/hour when the crash happened. Skeleton-like bodies being hurled around on pavement at that speed will always be a problem.
> 
> Here's Tom Danielson's bike after the crash. Ouch!


So what we're looking at is an asploded Cervelo. Apparently, it's not just Treks that asplode.


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## drussell (Aug 6, 2010)

moonmoth said:


> Here's Tom Danielson's bike after the crash. Ouch!


That's sad and disappointing on so many levels...


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## euro-trash (May 1, 2004)

respro said:


> I think the gear the riders wear needs to be redesigned. The gear professional motorcycle racers wear prevents them from injury in most cases. I know that aerodynamics, freedom of movement and cooling are major considerations but there has to be a way to keep the riders safer. Speed is not the problem.


I'm certainly not against protecting the riders. However, providing more protective gear will encourage them to take greater risks resulting in more crashes. Hopefully they'd be better off, but it would still alter the race. Joe Montana said, "want to make football safer? Remove the facemasks" 

I don't think this year has had that many more crashes--every year we forget about the frequency and the star riders lost in first week crashes from years gone by. 

The only 'answer' is to have fewer teams--22 DS' yelling in riders ears (I'll leave the radios out of this) to ride at the front is only adding to the chaos. For that reason, I don't think lowering the teams to 7 or 8 riders would change the safety of the race (I would be in favor for sporting reasons). Capping the race at 18 teams would make a HUGE difference. It won't happen though, and it would kill sponsorship of teams. So, be careful what you wish for--crashes suck, but altering the sport too much will alter it's appeal to the general public, and to sponsors.


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## JaeP (Mar 12, 2002)

Lick Skillet said:


> Maybe the dope was a good thing huh? Seemed to me that the era of LA had much less carnage, but that just might be my hazy opinion.


Bring back TTT.


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## BCSaltchucker (Jul 20, 2011)

RkFast said:


> I think I've seen enough of this type of racing. Crashes happen. But should not happen four times a stage like clockwork. UCI, ASO etc need to realize....no riders.....no race. Its a lesson the NFL and other sports learned and now it's time for pro cycling to learnI. After a while nobody will watch if all the big names get carried off on a stretcher before the event really gets going. The rules must be altered to protect the riders. One less team? Rethought routes? I dunno. But something must be done before someone gets killed.
> 
> Discuss.


All I can say is 
FU CKI NG H ELL

This is just SH t. My man Hesjedal knocked out of the whole GC because of some SH t eating squirrels. 

What is this Cat 4 racing???? I never saw very many crashes when I was racing - and I only crashed once (pileup in front of me).

Last year was real bad for crashes also.

Who are we left with now for GC - that whiny Aussie and Wiggins. Even podium-achieving Andy Schleck is knocked out.

and then the doping bombshells as usual in the first week (nuff said about that)

I might just erase today's DVR recording without watching


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## lemonlime (Sep 24, 2003)

moonmoth said:


> Eliminate most of the flat stages for the first week or so of the Tour. Instead, put in some real hills to create more room on the road. Sprinkle in some sprinters stages later on in the race, to keep them happy.


I think this is a good start, along with reducing the field size a tad.


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## pianopiano (Jun 4, 2005)

I think that things are starting to get out of control at Le Tour. These crashes and their frequency are somewhat alarming, and the resulting carnage is quite a sad sight indeed. Hopefully organisers will do whatever is neccessary in an honest attempt to lessen their occurence.

I enjoyed reading Voecklers opinion on the topic: Voeckler Blames Radio Earpieces For Metz Crash | Cyclingnews.com


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## kbiker3111 (Nov 7, 2006)

Lick Skillet said:


> Maybe the dope was a good thing huh? Seemed to me that the era of LA had much less carnage, but that just might be my hazy opinion.


I seem to recall a whole bunch of people crashing in the beginning of the '03 Tour.


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## RRRoubaix (Aug 27, 2008)

RkFast said:


> ... After a while nobody will watch if all the big names get carried off on a stretcher before the event really gets going...


I'm not so sure about that- I have an awful feeling the non-cycling American public LOVES seeing the crashes. That's why they are front and center in every single advert for the races.


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## wilki (Jun 9, 2004)

While i accept that these guys are incredible bike handlers IMO there is no way you should have your hands off the bars at 70-80 kph in a pavk trying to put shoe covers away as is currently the theory of hohw the crash started. Because if someone even thinks of tapping the brakes you are screwed. And you are playing with your safety and that of dozens of riders behind you. Even professionals need to be aware and make smart choices all the time.

Also interesting to hear a couple of people (Phil Legget and T Voekler) implicating race radios as being part of the problem with dir. sport. pushing their teams to all be at the front of the pack.


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## The Tedinator (Mar 12, 2004)

piano said:


> I think that things are starting to get out of control at Le Tour. These crashes and their frequency are somewhat alarming, and the resulting carnage is quite a sad sight indeed. Hopefully organisers will do whatever is neccessary in an honest attempt to lessen their occurence.
> 
> I enjoyed reading Voecklers opinion on the topic: Voeckler Blames Radio Earpieces For Metz Crash | Cyclingnews.com


I like Voigt's counterpoint better:

http://www.cyclesportmag.com/news-and-comment/an-open-letter-from-jens-voigt/


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## desurfer (Feb 13, 2006)

It's not speed or radios. There are simply too many teams/riders on the road (I believe they recently increased the number of team invites). Cut the number of teams and/or number of riders per team.


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## foto (Feb 7, 2005)

The Tedinator said:


> I like Voigt's counterpoint better:
> 
> http://www.cyclesportmag.com/news-and-comment/an-open-letter-from-jens-voigt/


Well this is easy. You have everyone with radios, but only the race officials get to say things into them.

The DS's don't.


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## The Tedinator (Mar 12, 2004)

desurfer said:


> It's not speed or radios. There are simply too many teams/riders on the road (I believe they recently increased the number of team invites). Cut the number of teams and/or number of riders per team.


Yet Sherwin on today's broadcast said he rode in a tour with 23 teams with 10 riders each. That is 32 more riders than this year's tour started with.


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## desurfer (Feb 13, 2006)

The Tedinator said:


> Yet Sherwin on today's broadcast said he rode in a tour with 23 teams with 10 riders each. That is 32 more riders than this year's tour started with.


I didn't hear that; well then...


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## The Tedinator (Mar 12, 2004)

There also doesn't seem to be as much carnage in the Giro or the Vuelta. Rider's are just nuts in the Tour.


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## superg (May 9, 2010)

Opus51569 said:


> Then what is the answer? Wider roads for the racers? Fewer sharp corners? No more roundabouts? Rain delays in the case of inclement weather? More/better protective gear? Stiffer penalties for riders who cause accidents through recklessness?
> 
> I'm not trying to be a jerk, I'm genuinely curious what the answers might be.



More Schlecks.


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## superg (May 9, 2010)

moonmoth said:


> David Millar said that they were going 70K/hour when the crash happened. Skeleton-like bodies being hurled around on pavement at that speed will always be a problem.
> 
> Here's Tom Danielson's bike after the crash. Ouch!


That would've never happened if he rode a steel bike, no ?


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## Kodi Crescent (Aug 3, 2011)

You guys aren't looking at this from a political perspective. Don't limit the riders...widen the roads!

Widen the routes in advance of the tour. The French need the jobs! The Germans will happily pay for it.

More jobs, improved roads, and fewer crashes. It's a win-win-win!


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## 67caddy (Nov 4, 2009)

It is really a combination of a large number of things. The Tour's impact in the media is so much bigger than the Giro or Vuelta. A stage win can make a career for a rider. Think about it. You get one win and your paycheck goes from $50,000 to $200,000. I bet you would take a few risks to get that type of pay raise. As others have said, number of teams should be reduced. Race radios should only be giving safety and road condition information from race officials. When you hear directors rant "move up, move up, move up" and they don't have any real visibility on actual road conditions, it is just insane. Let the teams road captain dictate the late stage strategy. There should also be some meaningful review and standards defined for the final 25km of stage finishes in the race. The circuit race the Giro had in Milan a couple of years ago was totally nuts.


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## vismitananda (Jan 16, 2011)

moonmoth said:


> David Millar said that they were going 70K/hour when the crash happened. Skeleton-like bodies being hurled around on pavement at that speed will always be a problem.
> 
> Here's Tom Danielson's bike after the crash. Ouch!


That's the reason I won't ride carbon. It breaks easily.


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## vismitananda (Jan 16, 2011)

Lick Skillet said:


> Seemed to me that the era of LA had much less carnage, but that just might be my hazy opinion.


I thought LA era riders were excellent bike handlers?


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## superjesus (Jul 26, 2010)

Kodi Crescent said:


> You guys aren't looking at this from a political perspective. Don't limit the riders...widen the roads!
> 
> Widen the routes in advance of the tour. The French need the jobs! *The Germans will happily pay for it.*
> 
> More jobs, improved roads, and fewer crashes. It's a win-win-win!


How's that? Last time I checked, the Germans weren't too pleased to be paying for all of Europe's financial woes.


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## Ridin'Sorra (Sep 7, 2004)

superjesus said:


> How's that? Last time I checked, the Germans weren't too pleased to be paying for all of Europe's financial woes.


Frau Merkel wants you to think that. It's all part of her plan for world domination... 

She sent an agent to throw a banana peel to cause this crash and turn France's roads into Autobahns.


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## danl1 (Jul 23, 2005)

67caddy said:


> It is really a combination of a large number of things. The Tour's impact in the media is so much bigger than the Giro or Vuelta. A stage win can make a career for a rider. Think about it. You get one win and your paycheck goes from $50,000 to $200,000. I bet you would take a few risks to get that type of pay raise. As others have said, number of teams should be reduced. Race radios should only be giving safety and road condition information from race officials. When you hear directors rant "move up, move up, move up" and they don't have any real visibility on actual road conditions, it is just insane. Let the teams road captain dictate the late stage strategy. There should also be some meaningful review and standards defined for the final 25km of stage finishes in the race. The circuit race the Giro had in Milan a couple of years ago was totally nuts.


While I"m not a fan of race radio, I can't blame it either. As many time as you hear the DS shouting strategy, you'll hear warnings of the upcoming turns, rough patches, and traffic furniture. And as for the constant yelling to 'move up', anyone that's watched more than one season has seen innumerable earpieces just happen to fall out.

The organizers could define the courses with a bit more thought. No, it wouldn't do to put the Tour on the motorways. But it doesn't make sense for the lead-in to a flat-stage sprint point to be on singletrack, either. They no enough about how these races develop to think this through. Sadly, with the various towns vying for a spot on the race map and only so many ways to get from A to B, the guy with the crayon doesn't always seem to pay attention to that.


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## danl1 (Jul 23, 2005)

If you want to seriously talk about the root cause, get rid of the points competition. Or in the alternate, bring back more intermediate sprint points, with points awarded deeper into the crossings.

The race organizers cut back on sprints and points awarded specifically to spice up the stages, to make more to the story than day after day of "breakaway, reeled in, Cav for the stage win." This is the result.


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## den bakker (Nov 13, 2004)

danl1 said:


> If you want to seriously talk about the root cause, get rid of the points competition. Or in the alternate, bring back more intermediate sprint points, with points awarded deeper into the crossings.
> 
> The race organizers cut back on sprints and points awarded specifically to spice up the stages, to make more to the story than day after day of "breakaway, reeled in, Cav for the stage win." This is the result.


They increased the intem. Points by a lot this year. Next plan 
The fastest riders are there, the stakes are the highest. Of course risks are taken. The huge crash was on a straight piece of road.


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## Len J (Jan 28, 2004)

Are there facts that support that there are more accidents this year than in the past? 

Seems like every year the first week is crazy.

Len


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## foto (Feb 7, 2005)

danl1 said:


> While I"m not a fan of race radio, I can't blame it either. As many time as you hear the DS shouting strategy, you'll hear warnings of the upcoming turns, rough patches, and traffic furniture. And as for the constant yelling to 'move up', *anyone that's watched more than one season has seen innumerable earpieces just happen to fall out*.
> 
> The organizers could define the courses with a bit more thought. No, it wouldn't do to put the Tour on the motorways. But it doesn't make sense for the lead-in to a flat-stage sprint point to be on singletrack, either. They no enough about how these races develop to think this through. Sadly, with the various towns vying for a spot on the race map and only so many ways to get from A to B, the guy with the crayon doesn't always seem to pay attention to that.


You have to be a pretty big gun to let your earpiece fall out and ignore the DS.


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## wibly wobly (Apr 23, 2009)

I really wonder if part of the problem is that there's so much pressure on the riders to do something spectacular, that they're all taking way too many risks. There's pressure from the sponsors, pressure from their DS and pressure to get a contract for next season, because everyone makes their deals after the Tour. So do you end up with a hell of a lot of people all trying to do anything they can to get noticed because the working conditions are so volatile. Most of these guys are on one or two year contracts. They don't know what's going to happen next year. So they end up feeling like they need to take chances, esp when their DSs are yelling at them to move up on narrow roads. It's no wonder why there's been so many issues with drugs in the sport (and that's not even considering the history of riders being abused by working under pretty harsh conditions for the amusement of the crowds). Anything you can do to stand out, is a big help. Perhaps, if there was a proper sports union, like other pro sports, they wouldn't have to feel so pressured into taking unneeded risks?


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## Kodi Crescent (Aug 3, 2011)

superjesus said:


> How's that? Last time I checked, the Germans weren't too pleased to be paying for all of Europe's financial woes.


It was sarcasm. I know the German's aren't happy with paying for other countries lack of productivity.

Hell, as an American, I'm not happy paying for other American's lack of productivity either! Those net tax receivers should get their asses out their and widen the roads I ride on so I don't have to fight with cars!


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## Maximus_XXIV (Nov 10, 2008)

vismitananda said:


> That's the reason I won't ride carbon. It breaks easily.


How is your steel fork?


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## Maximus_XXIV (Nov 10, 2008)

Assuming that crashes have actually increased, could it have anything to do with poorer braking on carbon rims? The number of teams varies by a few but has been as high or higher in the past, radios have been around for a decade and a stage win will make a career for much longer than a decade so I think all those reasons are not valid for a recent increase in crashes.


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## thechriswebb (Nov 21, 2008)

I know that people think that today's riders are soft and such but Sean Kelly was saying a few days ago that back in his day there wasn't as much pressure to haul through the less "important" sections as there is now. In stages with a climatic climb at the end for example, riders wouldn't attack until the end and would relatively saunter through the stage. Now, there is constant jockying for position at high speed throughout the stage.


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## tazzmacd (Feb 24, 2012)

All the teams think that to stay safe they all need to be at the front of the pack. If you are at the front of the pack then the chances of getting hit by a crash are less. The problem is that all the teams are trying to get to the front of the pack to stay safe from crashes but that I think is causing the crashes to happen.


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## Kodi Crescent (Aug 3, 2011)

Let's face it. This is becoming a more commercialized spectator sport. Lot's of TV coverage.

Those TV Execs aren't stupid. They know the average person doesn't find bike racing entertaining in the least. 3+ hours of nice scenery, an hour of exciting intense drama, and then 2 minutes of men being kissed by the occasional, but increasingly rare, babe. Who would watch all that, except for the die hard biker?

But throw in some random carnage...now that's exciting! It adds interest. It makes the riders seem tougher. It adds drama - You can see dreams, hopes, and bones shattered on live TV! Now you have reasons to stay tuned and watch more Cadillac commercials. Those are what pay the bills after all. 

Doing anything to reduce crashes is counter productive to the motives of those who stand to profit. Unfortunately for the riders, the crashes will continue.


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## foto (Feb 7, 2005)

Kodi Crescent said:


> Let's face it. This is becoming a more commercialized spectator sport. Lot's of TV coverage.
> 
> Those TV Execs aren't stupid. They know the average person doesn't find bike racing entertaining in the least. 3+ hours of nice scenery, an hour of exciting intense drama, and then 2 minutes of men being kissed by the occasional, but increasingly rare, babe. Who would watch all that, except for the die hard biker?
> 
> ...


I totally and completely disagree. Sponsorship and advertising dollars do not roll in when super stars get taken out by fat people.


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## wibly wobly (Apr 23, 2009)

People watch golf, baseball, poker and cricket on TV. If the audience knows anything about the sport, you don't need to turn it into a roller derby to keep peoples attention.

edit: cycling needs more promoters like this


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## vismitananda (Jan 16, 2011)

Maximus_XXIV said:


> How is your steel fork?


I don't ride steel bikes either. I'm using aluminum road bike frames, and a bit of a Carbon into other parts.

I don't ride those fancy Carbon, since I don't race and just a recreational rider. I ride my bike for pleasure, not for treasure.


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## Maximus_XXIV (Nov 10, 2008)

vismitananda said:


> I don't ride steel bikes either. I'm using aluminum road bike frames, and a bit of a Carbon into other parts.
> 
> I don't ride those fancy Carbon, since I don't race and just a recreational rider. I ride my bike for pleasure, not for treasure.


I had an aluminum fork once. It was worse than my first carbon fork, which was bad. I liked the steel fork I had and it was beautifully chromed. I bent it in a crash unfortunately.


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## vismitananda (Jan 16, 2011)

Maximus_XXIV said:


> I had an aluminum fork once. It was worse than my first carbon fork, which was bad. I liked the steel fork I had and it was beautifully chromed. I bent it in a crash unfortunately.


Any bike material would break if they were struck beyond their limits.

But base on my experience, carbon frame and forks are very fragile that even the slightest crack may lead to failure, and so expensive.


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## Bullvine (Sep 9, 2009)

I'd bet over 50% of folks watching watch just for crashes it's kind of like NASCAR. 
I'm not saying thats a good thing but it is what it is. The riders are the ones crashing they need to work it out on there own. The only rule change I would support is the removal of all
rider radio communications.


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## ScottsSupersix (Mar 25, 2012)

I watch for events like Tyler Farrar trying to break into the Argos-Shimano team bus to whip Veeler's butt for causing him to crash. Not really, but it does make for good sports television!


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## vismitananda (Jan 16, 2011)

ScottsSupersix said:


> I watch for events like Tyler Farrar trying to break into the Argos-Shimano team bus to whip Veeler's butt for causing him to crash. Not really, but it does make for good sports television!


That's what you call entertainment.

Like Costa vs. Barredo


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## Ridin'Sorra (Sep 7, 2004)

I honestly don't know how to reduce the crashes, but I'm sure removing radios will only open the door to fatal accidents. Also, there's a tactical/strategic side to it that makes important to have intelligent riders/DS. If you don't believe so, watch F1 for a while, a rider that can read/race the race is as important as the team principal making the right decisions. Think like the best years of Schumacher-Brawn days. Most, if not all forms of racing nowadays have radio communications.

I'm not saying to just do nothing, but in all forms of racing, despite the best efforts of the organizers/ruling organizations, people always find their way into something bad happening to them.

Some of these crashes could have been easily avoided by stronger safety measures regarding spectators or road conditions, but inevitably you will have people just doing bonehead moves (like Ferrari in the Giro taking out Cavendish in a sprint).


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## vismitananda (Jan 16, 2011)

Honestly most of the riders in the pro peloton rides like an idiot/amateur. Though we can't really blame them coz stage win is their holy grail.

As for widening the roads. You can't really tell that there are no more crashes, if they widen the roads like that in autobahn. Stage races are so difficult to read.


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## Ridin'Sorra (Sep 7, 2004)

vismitananda said:


> Honestly most of the riders in the pro peloton rides like an idiot/amateur. Though we can't really blame them coz stage win is their holy grail.
> 
> As for widening the roads. You can't really tell that there are no more crashes, if they widen the roads like that in autobahn. Stage races are so difficult to read.


I don't think widening the roads will work. Riding in a pack is paramount to road racing, so even with a wide road, the peloton will continue being that, a peloton, a tight pack of riders benefiting from the slipstream of other riders.


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## vismitananda (Jan 16, 2011)

Ridin'Sorra said:


> I don't think widening the roads will work. Riding in a pack is paramount to road racing, so even with a wide road, the peloton will continue being that, a peloton, a tight pack of riders benefiting from the slipstream of other riders.


Indeed, and in an instant riders hitting the ground like a domino effect.


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## juno (Jul 18, 2008)

I have no answers. Better route planning for the lead-ins to sprints would help as mentioned before.
Penalizing riders, teams and spectators who cause crashes may help.
It looks like a few of these were caused by aggressive riders. Farrar's crash for example appeared to be 90% his fault. 
While a few crashes can be expected it seems that recently they are changing the character of almost every stage and perhaps the whole race.
Losing guys like Ryder, Danielson, Sanchez et al will make it a lot less exciting in the mountains and hurt their respective teams in the pocket book sponsorship wise.
Plus Wiggo and Evans don't have to defend against them if they were still here and decided to take off.


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## moonmoth (Nov 8, 2008)

moonmoth said:


> Here's Tom Danielson's bike after the crash. Ouch!


Interesting that this picture has since been withdrawn from Twitter by TD. I wonder if Cervelo had something to say about it, perhaps not wanting the negative attention associated with a mangled frame?


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## Ridin'Sorra (Sep 7, 2004)

moonmoth said:


> Interesting that this picture has since been withdrawn from Twitter by TD. I wonder if Cervelo had something to say about it, perhaps not wanting the negative attention associated with a mangled frame?



I agree that manufacturers don't like to have their equipment shown in pieces.

However, doesn't that frame look like have been run over? I don't think that kind of damage comes from impact. Bikes don't crash sideways into things... at least not normally.


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## SicBith (Jan 21, 2008)

moonmoth said:


> David Millar said that they were going 70K/hour when the crash happened. Skeleton-like bodies being hurled around on pavement at that speed will always be a problem.
> 
> Here's Tom Danielson's bike after the crash. Ouch!


My dad has a sweet set of tools. I can totally fix this if Tom will send it to me.


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## The Weasel (Jul 20, 2006)

Kodi Crescent said:


> If re-elected, Obama will pass a resolution banning all crashes in the TDF. Just for you.


Actually according to the 'pulicans', he'd just redistribute te crashes amongst the other riders.

I'm quite frustrated with the crashes too. It's like amateur hor out there.:mad2:


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## Bill Bikie (Jul 24, 2010)

AdamM said:


> I think the field is just too big for the way they race. Allow each team only seven riders and IMO you'll see a significant reduction in crashes. I also think the racing would improve.


Maybe as few as five riders!


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## vismitananda (Jan 16, 2011)

Damn! Sanchez is out of the race, now mountain stages will look more boring.


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## superjesus (Jul 26, 2010)

Any word on whether Farrar crashed on the rest day ride?


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## danl1 (Jul 23, 2005)

den bakker said:


> They increased the intem. Points by a lot this year. Next plan
> The fastest riders are there, the stakes are the highest. Of course risks are taken. The huge crash was on a straight piece of road.


True they've upped the awards, but they've shallowed them as well. That is, if the sprint points run deep, they'll let the break go, the real contenders will make do with the leftovers, and save the big collection for the finish line. OTOH, with high-value but shallow intermediate sprints, they encourage the sort of behavior that created the 3km rule in the middle of the stage. They set it up this way in an effort to create multiple-break, reel-and-bridge racing in a stage race format. 

The "big one" happened when there was a surge on a narrow road, essentially the start of the race to the intermediate sprint.


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## vismitananda (Jan 16, 2011)

superjesus said:


> Any word on whether Farrar crashed on the rest day ride?


Really mate?

Does anyone here has a proof on this?


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## tednugent (Apr 26, 2010)

RkFast said:


> I think I've seen enough of this type of racing. Crashes happen. But should not happen four times a stage like clockwork. UCI, ASO etc need to realize....no riders.....no race. Its a lesson the NFL and other sports learned and now it's time for pro cycling to learnI. After a while nobody will watch if all the big names get carried off on a stretcher before the event really gets going. The rules must be altered to protect the riders. One less team? Rethought routes? I dunno. But something must be done before someone gets killed.
> 
> Discuss.


it's racing on the road... it happens.

maybe instead of a road race....you can watch a race at a velodrome and convince them to do a simulated race on a trainer....


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