# Is the dented washer needed when installing brakes ?



## Wadl (Oct 8, 2011)

I will install my 7800 brakes soon on my new build and I was wondering if the little dented washer (#7 on that techdoc from shimano: http://techdocs.shimano.com/media/t...BR/EV-BR-7800-2249A_v1_m56577569830609052.pdf ) is necessary ?

I am asking because I feel that the bold is not very long... what would be the consequence of not installing it ?

Thx


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## mariomal99 (Mar 4, 2012)

Yes. You do need the washers installed for each pad. They allow you to toe the break pads in.

If you do not toe them in your breaks will skreech.


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## 202cycle (Sep 13, 2011)

No, OP asked about #7. Has nothing to do with the brake pads (which really don't need to be toed in anyway). This washer keeps the brake from moving side to side if you will, or rotating where it bolts through the frame or fork. It is not absolutely necessary, but it will help keep the brake in proper adjustment. They make different length nuts for brakes, so if yours is not long enough, stop by your lbs and pick up a longer one. That way, you can use the washer towards it's intended purpose. Keep in mind that manufacturers rarely sell components with a bunch of unnecessary stuff.


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## Wadl (Oct 8, 2011)

we can change that bolt ? ok, I will ask for one next time I go to my lbs... 

But, if it was moving a little bit, wouldn't that be a good "feature" for the brakes to align itself automaticaly at each braking ?


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## gamara (May 20, 2002)

Part #7 is the serrated washer & is absolutely required to keep the calipers centered. I assume that you are inquiring about this because it sounds like the supplied nut is not long enough to clear the fork? As the other poster mentioned, those brake nuts come in different lengths. However just so that you know, the ones that come with the 7800 are titanium. 

If you do get longer replacements from your lbs, they will most likely be steel. A little heavier but functionally no different & a lot cheaper & you don't have to worry about using anti seize compound.


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## Wadl (Oct 8, 2011)

darn.. that sux.. I want to keep the titanium one !! 

I think I can get 3 or 4 complete turn into the nuts... I will try them like that ..


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## bikerjulio (Jan 19, 2010)

Wadl said:


> darn.. that sux.. I want to keep the titanium one !!
> 
> I think I can get 3 or 4 complete turn into the nuts... I will try them like that ..


If it was Campy, they require 6 complete threads, under risk of sudden death 

4 or less is a no-no.


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## Wadl (Oct 8, 2011)

and I absolutely cannot install it without the serrated washer ?? no one never did it before ???


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## bikerjulio (Jan 19, 2010)

I notice that the Shimano diagram you reference shows three alternative nut lengths - just like Campy.

I don't believe the serrated washer is a safety issue, more to hold the brake centered. On some forks there may also be clearance issues between the pad holders and fork if the washer is omitted.

Just think of the forces at work under heavy braking - you definitely need the brake to be properly attached. any LBS should have other brake nuts & they are also available from online retailers.


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## tlg (May 11, 2011)

Wadl said:


> and I absolutely cannot install it without the serrated washer ?? no one never did it before ???


Yes you can. And yes someone did before.
Does that make you happy now? 

Now you can put on your brakes and hope they don't move around on you. But at least you'll have saved all that weight. :thumbsup:


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## andulong (Nov 23, 2006)

Yes, do it temporarily until you can get the proper length bolt. Then fix it right.


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## Wadl (Oct 8, 2011)

Ok, I found that with carbon fibre fork, it is "normal" that the recess nut is too small.

I found longer titanium one that I will order, I think it will be easier than changing the bolt !!
Titanium Hardware, Titanium Bolt, Titanium Accessories, Ti Bolts


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## JCavilia (Sep 12, 2005)

Wadl said:


> Ok, I found that with carbon fibre fork, it is "normal" that the recess nut is too small.
> 
> I found longer titanium one that I will order, I think it will be easier than changing the bolt !!
> Titanium Hardware, Titanium Bolt, Titanium Accessories, Ti Bolts


Or, to phrase it differently, different fork designs have different thicknesses at the crown, and therefore require a diferrent lengths of bolt/nut. And yes, nobody changes the bolt -- they make nuts in various lengths for just that reason.


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## rgamble (Nov 16, 2011)

*Re: Serrated Washers*

With the advent of carbon forks I often wondered about the wisdom of smashing a serrated washer on them so I never did. By coincidence I noted some annoditical validation of this concern at the following link:

cyclingnews.com/features/photos/gallery-inside-the-new-team-sky-service-course/231768

"Instead Of The Usual Serrated Washers, Sky Team Mechanics Mount Brakes Calipers With Brass Washers, Which They Say Are Easier On The Frames."


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## velodog (Sep 26, 2007)

rgamble said:


> With the advent of carbon forks I often wondered about the wisdom of smashing a serrated washer on them so I never did. By coincidence I noted some annoditical validation of this concern at the following link:
> 
> cyclingnews.com/features/photos/gallery-inside-the-new-team-sky-service-course/231768
> 
> "Instead Of The Usual Serrated Washers, Sky Team Mechanics Mount Brakes Calipers With Brass Washers, Which They Say Are Easier On The Frames."


I've used the serrated washer on my plastic bike and it ain't self asploded yet.


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## goldsbar (Apr 24, 2002)

You can also get a simple star lock washer from your local hardware store for about 15 cents. Looks a little different but same function.


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## Kerry Irons (Feb 25, 2002)

*Serated washers*



rgamble said:


> With the advent of carbon forks I often wondered about the wisdom of smashing a serrated washer on them so I never did. By coincidence I noted some annoditical validation of this concern at the following link:
> 
> cyclingnews.com/features/photos/gallery-inside-the-new-team-sky-service-course/231768
> 
> "Instead Of The Usual Serrated Washers, Sky Team Mechanics Mount Brakes Calipers With Brass Washers, Which They Say Are Easier On The Frames."


Gee, I've been using a serated washer on my CF fork for nearly 15 seasons and 130,000 miles. There are dents in the paint. I suppose fork failure must be imminent? Can anybody work out how much time I have left?


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## velodog (Sep 26, 2007)

Kerry Irons said:


> Gee, I've been using a serated washer on my CF fork for nearly 15 seasons and 130,000 miles. There are dents in the paint. I suppose fork failure must be imminent? Can anybody work out how much time I have left?


Probably the rest of this season and maybe half of next season.

Be careful.


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## martinrjensen (Sep 23, 2007)

you need to screw the bolt on as many turns as equals the diameter of the bolt. That's maximum strength, no need to go any further. measure if 4 turns does this.


Wadl said:


> darn.. that sux.. I want to keep the titanium one !!
> 
> I think I can get 3 or 4 complete turn into the nuts... I will try them like that ..


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## tlg (May 11, 2011)

martinrjensen said:


> you need to screw the bolt on as many turns as equals the diameter of the bolt. That's maximum strength, no need to go any further. measure if 4 turns does this.


While a good rule of thumb and generally provides adequate strength, this does not guarantee maximum strength.


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## Wadl (Oct 8, 2011)

no worries, everything is ok now. The nuts that came with my 7800 where 6 mm shorter than the original nuts that came with my bike.

Not only that, but the threaded part started about 1 or 2 mm inside the nuts (dunno why !!)

So I am now using my original nuts (even if it is not a titanium one...  so sad)

And I can't get a 28mm titanium nuts so I will stick with my original one, which has about at least a good 15 mm of thread inside the nuts !!


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## looigi (Nov 24, 2010)

Team SKY uses flat brass washers and say the serrated ones are "hard on the frames". 

Instead Of The Usual Serrated Washers, Sky Team Mechanics Mount Brakes Calipers With Brass Washers, Which They Say Are Easier On The Frames. Photos | Cyclingnews.com


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