# R3 Issues



## Royal 6 (Apr 11, 2007)

After purchasing a new R3 last year and riding it over 5,000 miles, I think I can make a fair judgement about the R3. My conclusion is that the R3 is way overrated and has some flaws that a $2,800 frameset simply should not have. For starters, the shifting cables that are routed along the down tube actually contact the bottom bracket area. Yes, the metal cables are rubbing back and forth on the carbon finish of your $2,800 frameset. Next, due to the strange geometry, there is a massive amount of toe overlap. Some toe lap is to be expected, but the R3 has so much in the smaller sizes that you have to be very careful making a low speed turn that requires movement of the handlebar. Better have your outside foot at the vertical position or you may find yourself on the ground. Also another issue is front tire clearance with the cables running along the down tube. I was running 23 size tires and there was barely enough clearance between the tire and the cables, less than 4 mm. A larger tire, such as a 25, would have been likely rubbing the cables. Check out the finish on the $2,800 frame. There is a very noticeable and unsightly seam running down the center of the top tube. The seam has been smoothed over but has a rough "superglued" image. For all the hype about ultra low weight, the R3 comes equipped with the FSA SL-K seatpost. At around 265g, not the lightest carbon seatpost, not even close. In fact, it is one of the heavier ones. And finally the ride quality. Yes, the bottom bracket is very stiff and the bike does provide a overall comfortable ride. But the front end area, (ie head tube, top tube, down tube junction area) is not particularily stiff and in fact some reviews have characterized the R3 as two bikes in one - a very stiff bottom and rear portion combined with a flexy frontal area, despite the stiff and straight Wolf SL fork. And finally, two local independent bike shops that previously carried the Cervelo line, discontinued carrying and selling the bikes (not just the R3, but the whole Cervelo line). They provided a variety of reasons for this, which I won't get into. But the bottom line is that two LBS, independently dropped the brand. Draw your own conclusions. So dear readers, I hate to bust the R3 bubble, but facts are facts.


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## RHankey (Sep 7, 2007)

I'm not a Cervelo owner (nor have much personal interest in them), so have no reason to defend or bash them, but I think you're being a little unfair to Cervelo.

You can solve the cable rub by getting a plastic cable sleeve from your LBS. You need to use these cale sleeves on a number of makes of frames, be they low or high end frames.

Toe overlap is a given on most race geometry or smaller road frames. How many people have you ever heard crash from toe overlap? I don't think I've ever owned a road bike that hasn't had toe/wheel overlap, and I'm a 6'1. Unless you're goofing around in a parking lot at very low speeds, toe overlap is a non issue.


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## STARNUT (Jun 19, 2005)

R3s (and all cervelos) come stock with 25mm tires. 

You should know that a 23 is not a 23 is not a 23. Sell the frame and buy something else.


I have a feeling that Cervelo did the droping not the dealer droping Cervelo. 

At any rate sell it and buy a custom, you get all the frame you want and then some. 

I'll just disagree with one thing you said...............the headtube is anything but soft. I've seen in house and out of house test that say differently. It was likely tire, rim, or wheel issue. You didn't provide us with that info though.

The finish is not that great, true. Cervelo never intended it to be, in fact, they say that, out right. Putting extra paint and a cosmetic outer of "pretty" carbon wouldn't add anythingbut weight to the frame. 

Your right the front center is short..............so are a lot of bikes, you just need to know what is what.

The only "fact" I read was the weight of the seatpost and the front center problem. Opnion is opnion.

Starnut


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## PJ352 (Dec 5, 2007)

STARNUT said:


> The finish is not that great, true. Cervelo never intended it to be, in fact, they say that, out right. Putting extra paint and a cosmetic outer of "pretty" carbon wouldn't add anythingbut weight to the frame.


You mean like painting them white like they do for '08 models? Cervelo is apparently ok with the added weight and a fringe benefit is that it hides the sloppy finish people have complained about.

For 'only' $2,800 per frame, why would Cervelo concern themselves with the finish on their bikes. I mean, who cares about pride of ownership.


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## thelivo (May 14, 2007)

Wow what a bunch of haters.
Personally i can't be arsed to argue with you, you have obviously made a decision, except to say a 25 tyre fits fine so thats one problem out the window.


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## STARNUT (Jun 19, 2005)

PJ352 said:


> You mean like painting them white like they do for '08 models? Cervelo is apparently ok with the added weight and a fringe benefit is that it hides the sloppy finish people have complained about.
> 
> For 'only' $2,800 per frame, why would Cervelo concern themselves with the finish on their bikes. I mean, who cares about pride of ownership.



Even the attention to detail in the white paint is suspect. Hell, I have a brand new P3 with a red dart that is slightly off center on the top tube.

I sell Cervelo (among _many_ other things) and have the bikes that are the weight of the r3 with a better finish.............but much more expensive. There is no shame in Cervelo putting all their eggs in one (or two) basket(s). Finishing just ain't their thing. It is a company of engineers, not designers. $2800 for the frame is a pretty good deal when you consider what your buying.

Or you could buy a prince, cento, parlee, 586, orca, etc, etc, etc. All start _well_ above $3500 frame and fork except the orca. The question becomes, are you honest enough to admit that you would williningly pay a premium for paint? That its matter more to you (not you, PL352, but in general you) that the bike _looks_ like it performs rather than actually. Its not like the R3 is a bad bike. There is no shame in saying yes just like there should be no shame in saying that finish matters less than engineering and production.

Starnut


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## PJ352 (Dec 5, 2007)

I didn't say the R3 is a bad bike, nor am I a Cervelo hater, as some may think. But I do expect more in the way of finish and overall quality and believe I can get that, _along with _engineering/ performance, all at a better price than $2,800.


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## bmax119 (Jul 26, 2006)

*My R3*

I think I'm rather qualified to address the OP's concerns as I have an R3, have put over 10K miles on it, used it for centuries and crits, and have a 49 cm frame. With that said...Here's my evaluation so far.

1. Don't care about the finish. More paint does not equate to faster times or a more comfortable ride. How many people honestly ask to look at your bike up close anyway?

2. Toe overlap does exist, but will always exist on a frame this size. Some manufacturers would even use 650 wheels to solve this problem. Unless you're riding extremely slow and don't know how to handle a bike properly than this is a non-issue.

3. FSA seatpost - yes, not the lightest on the market, but this was the comp supplier that Cervelo chose to work with for the last several years (Now I think it's Oval Concepts?). Could you save 80 grams by going to a lighter post, sure. There's not many bikes out there off the rack that are going to give you EVERYTHING you want in components. Either it's the saddle, crank, stem, wheelset, etc. Change it if you don't like it.

4. Flexy front - disagree. I know I only weigh a buck 20, but this bike tracks very well in a tight curve or bombing a straight descent. I have had no problems with the front end feeling sloppy or noodly. OP was right however, the BB stiffness makes for a great sprint I believe. 

5. One thing not addressed is the 'ability' of this bike to climb. Yeah, yeah, it's all about the rider climbing, right? Wrong. This frame transfers power so efficiently I feel no wasted energy in a gradual 8% monster to our short 20% walls here in NC. When I first got this frame I recorded faster climbing times on all my routes within the first 2 weeks of getting it.

So, aside from a Colnago finish and a weight weenie post, I'd take this frame any day.


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## kyler2001 (Sep 8, 2005)

To the OP...I see you've been a RBR member for almost a year and saved your first post to let us know your feelings about the R3. Did you hold off posting because you wanted to wait and let your first post be about your R3 experience (whether good or bad) or...do you actually work for a Cervelo competitor? Not to upset you but I had to ask because it seems a little odd to wait so long and have this for a first post. I'd say 99.9% of R3 owners are content with their purchase. The only complaints I can remember are from a couple of people who tried a very small frame size and found the geometry not to be correct for them. They actually prefered a less compact/race geometry anyhow and went with a frame with more of a horizontal top tube and a longer headtube. Put it up for sale on ebay and see how fast it goes. Not only is the R3 a popular frame, but they have a very good resale value as well. 

As far as the finish goes...that's a personal choice. I like the smeared black/raw look and the varnish finish is flawless on mine so I don't see a problem. Too many frames/stems/bars/seatposts/etc. are being produced with the same boring looking carbon effect. I'm glad to own something different. BMC went with a somewhat same effect for their SLC01. 

The R3 has been used to win the Paris-Roubaix 2 years in a row (BTW, CSC has no problems running larger sized tires during Roubaix) and has always come near the top of the list on any review or test and after riding the bike for myself, I can see why all the hype! I look at the FSA seatpost as it being just a free gift from Cervelo. Something thrown in as extra. I tossed it aside and bought the post I really wanted (Syntace). Not too many frames come with a post anyway so most people end up buying what they really want anyhow. Even if it came with a Ritchey WCS carbon, I'd ebay the Ritchey and buy the Syntace because that's what I had in mind for my build. What is most important to me is the frame and fork and their performance and the fit (I could even care less if it came with a headset or not). For the price, not too many frames have tested better or have proved themselves in world class races like the R3 and the rest of the Cervelo line. Like I said before, after experiencing the bike for myself, the R3 is hard to beat and meets my needs perfectly so no bursted bubble here. Also for those 2 shops you say stopped selling Cervelo, I've seen 3 start to carry...


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## MIN in PDX (Nov 29, 2007)

Sounds like the guy bought the wrong size and is unhappy. Wah.


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## PJ352 (Dec 5, 2007)

The OP may be the one unhappy with his purchase, but it's the intolerant R3 defenders with their undies in a bunch. I can understand though, it's frustrating to feel compelled to write paragraphs justifying your love of the bike. Or make unfounded statements about the OP choosing the wrong size. Better yet, after he states why he took so long to post, kyler asks the question anyway. Makes me think you all know that much of what is said is true, but to soothe your own egos need to lash out at anyone who disagrees and rationalize your purchase. At least Starnut showed some objectivity, the rest choose to be blind to the facts.

The mantra:
I _LOVE_ my *CERVELO* and don't you dare post negatives against it lest you beget our collective wrath!!

Oh, congrats on your 'big' TOC prologue win. That should sell a few more bikes.


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## cocoboots (Apr 13, 2006)

Great first post. Do you want to sell it? What size do you have? I'm looking for a cheap R3 for a project. I want to strip away all the decals and have a nude frame.

edit: spelling errors


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## kyler2001 (Sep 8, 2005)

PJ352 said:


> The OP may be the one unhappy with his purchase, but it's the intolerant R3 defenders with their undies in a bunch. I can understand though, it's frustrating to feel compelled to write paragraphs justifying your love of the bike. Or make unfounded statements about the OP choosing the wrong size. Better yet, after he states why he took so long to post, kyler asks the question anyway. Makes me think you all know that much of what is said is true, but to soothe your own egos need to lash out at anyone who disagrees and rationalize your purchase. At least Starnut showed some objectivity, the rest choose to be blind to the facts.
> 
> The mantra:
> I _LOVE_ my *CERVELO* and don't you dare post negatives against it lest you beget our collective wrath!!
> ...


PJ,

I think it would be more frustrating to feel compelled to write paragraphs about people who are happy about their purchase and upset with them because they try and express their positive experience. Did you make a bad purchase and are now stuck with a frame that nobody wants to buy? Upset because most R3 owners are content and you are not? Why can't a person be trully happy about their purchase? No frustration here when I write about my bike...my positive experiences with my R3 flow naturally from my fingertips to my keyboard. If we weren't truly happy with our choice and forcing ourselves to make good things up, then why wouldn't we get ride of the R3 and post a bad review to help others avoid a mistake? Are all Cervelo owners just somehow evil hearted inside? Do we want everybody else to make a horrible purchase mistake like we did so we just post positive things that are actually just figments of our imagination? It doesn't make sense. Why would I want to hang on to a piece of junk anyway? I've had many bikes that I didn't like, got rid of and never felt compelled to hang on to them and try to justify my wrong purchase by making up things just to sooth my soul. 

What blind facts do we choose to ignore? His fact that you can't run bigger tires like a 25mm? Is that a true fact? I have no cable rub that he says is rubbing my BB. Small frames will have more toe overlap than larger frames. He needs to post more than one review that talks about the head tube area not being stiff (I've had the total opposite experience, this includes the Wolf SL as well). Here is Francois of RBR.com talking about his positive experience with the front end http://reviews.roadbikereview.com/blog/cervelo-r3/. He calls it "stiff" but he must be brain washed or on the Cervelo payroll I guess...If you need more positive reviews, I'll be happy to post them. The Squoval design is used for a reason.

BTW, you are incorrect again. The OP never said why he waited to make a first post on RBR. He did say he spent some time on a R3. Aren't their other things to talk about with other cyclists on RBR while your trying out your frame for a year? Just seems a bit odd.


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## PJ352 (Dec 5, 2007)

Just as you and others felt compelled to post responding to the OP, I felt the same, not to defend what he said, but to defend his right to say it (a cliche, I know). 

There's nothing wrong with everyone throwing there 2 cents in, but when people post unfounded, inaccurate statements and, in general, are being negative towards the OP, then yes, I felt that the proverbial guns were being aimed all in the name of the great god, CERVELO. Then when the guy says he waited to ride the R3 for 5K miles before posting, he's faulted for it (and yes, point taken about my using your remark out of context). Maybe he was trying to give himself some time on the bike before offering opinions. Do I agree with everything he says? No. The two bikes I've owned (Bianchi and Serotta) for a sum of 23 years both had toe overlap. No biggie. But really, there's no need to get into a rant just because he mentions something you (collectively 'you') disagree with. Sometimes I think people lose sight of the fact that this is a forum, a place to exchange thoughts/ ideas/ opinions. Some post nonsense, some post facts, most post somewhere in between. 

To wrap this up, just let me say if you (and others) are happy with your bike, no matter the brand, then God bless ya, I'm genuinely happy for you. I personally don't like the R3, maybe because I'm 138 lbs and it beats me up. Plus, in general, I'm a steel guy. But so what if I like it or don't. I see no reason to attack whether someone likes a ride or doesn't. It's just an opinion and we should have the right to state it. In that vein, I'll retract my (somewhat sarcastic) remark about Cancellara's prologue win. A win is a win and should be acknowledged as such, along with Haedo's stage one victory.


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## eric01 (May 20, 2007)

Royal 6 - what fork are you running on your R3? Many R3's have Easton SLXs. For my taste, the SLX is too flexy. I'm running a Alpha Q GS10 which is a great fork. Very stiff and a great match for the frame.


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## AZ Cruiser (Apr 20, 2006)

All of you should go out and get a Look 595.


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## eric01 (May 20, 2007)

AZ Cruiser said:


> All of you should go out and get a Look 595.


Great, thanks for the helpful advice. Let me go toss my R3 in the bin and drop another $3k+ on a 595.


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## chase196126 (Jan 4, 2008)

I dont understand this seeming Look/Cervelo rivalry... Personally I love my R3, but I also love my Felt FC and I sure would mind owning a Look 595 either (it is one sweet looking bike) But for a more scientific comparison of the two bikes here are some test results that were posted on the cannondale forum:

*The results [legend: make, model | price frameset | weight frame/fork/headset | standardized frameset weight | lateral stiffness | fork stiffness | BB stiffness | comfort frame | comfort fork | STW-value]

Cervelo R3SL (w/ THM Scapula) | 3650Eur | 826/388/58g |1289g | 94Nm/° | 59N/mm | 65N/mm | 202N/mm | 143N/mm | 114Nm/°/kg

Look 595 Ultra Black | 3300Eur | 1150/388/75g |1629g | 78Nm/° | 44N/mm | 53N/mm | 188N/mm | 96N/mm | 68Nm/°/kg*

Personally I think a 46 nm/kg different in overall stiffness to weight is pretty significant.. but thats just me.


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## highsugar (Apr 14, 2006)

Oh my god! Everybody takes this stuff so personally. I'm still in love with my R3 after 10,000 miles. Sorry you're unhappy with yours.


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