# "SG" What does thids mean??



## msohio (Feb 23, 2004)

What does the "SG" mean when referred to the Axiom frame??


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## mcteague (Feb 7, 2005)

My guess is that is stands for "sui generis". That is Latin for "of it's own kind". I suppose that is Seven's cute way of saying "custom".

Tim McTeague


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## msohio (Feb 23, 2004)

*Could Be*

Could be that's it. They use it on only two frames and everything they do is custom. The two frames are both all Ti so I assumed it had something to do with that. One of my buddies said it was Super Good !! I have asked Seven direct by email and gotten no response.


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## mcteague (Feb 7, 2005)

"Super Good"? I'm sticking with "sui generis". The only models that offer the SG frame are the ones where "Race" is also offered. While both can be custom the "Race" severely limits the range of stiffness to only 9-10 where as the SG is 4-9. So, the SG frames can be more what you want them to be, sui generis.

Tim McTeague


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## msohio (Feb 23, 2004)

*Right On !*

Tim.......Just got an email from Seven and you are 100% correct. Thanks


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## CPATCRASH (Dec 4, 2006)

OK then. What's id8 stand for then


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## mcteague (Feb 7, 2005)

ID8? Uhh....idiot? I can't think of anything else but I can't really believe Seven intended it. I do think just sticking carbon tubes into a titanium frame sort of an idiotic thing to do.

Tim McTeague


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## CPATCRASH (Dec 4, 2006)

I don't know about that. I have had a number of ti bikes and while they do ride great the id8 is as stiff and a bit more comfortable for long rides. But hey. Opinions are like a** holes. Everybody has one.


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## mcteague (Feb 7, 2005)

I wonder what would happen if you took an all ti bike and one with a mix of carbon and ti tubes, wrapped both in opaque plastic or paper, and rode them. Assuming they both had the same geometry and tube stiffness I doubt you could tell them apart. Just as with audio expectation bias has a lot to do with what you perceive. Most of what people feel from the frame itself, leaving wheels out of the equation for now, has to do with geometry and a little with tube stiffness. Titanium frames can be made just as stiff as carbon. The beauty of an all ti frame is there are no glued or pressed-in joints to come loose. I think this mix of materials has more to do with marketing than anything else.

Tim McTeague


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## 4ster (Jun 23, 2005)

CPATCRASH said:


> OK then. What's id8 stand for then


I have an id8 and had been wondering this myself. So, I emailed Seven and this is the response I got:

Good question. I have been with Seven for quite a while and this is the first time anyone has asked. I would have thought we'd get the question more often but I guess folks just aren't that curious. Anyway ID8 is derived from the word "ideate", which means to form an idea; conceive; imagine; think. Hope that helps and feel free to pass it along. Thank you again for contacting us and we're glad you're enjoying the bike.


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## mcteague (Feb 7, 2005)

4ster said:


> Anyway ID8 is derived from the word "ideate", which means to form an idea; conceive; imagine; think. Hope that helps and feel free to pass it along. Thank you again for contacting us and we're glad you're enjoying the bike.


"To form an idea"?? Ugh, Seven is getting a bit strange if you ask me. The whole "Race" series makes little sense as you can order most frames extra stiff for racing anyway. To "form an idea" sounds like a pretty weak concept anyway. I wonder what the meeting was like where they kicked around names to replace Odonata. They actually did worse IMO. Did no one realize that it sounds a lot like idiot? For the record, I have a Seven Axiom. Sometimes using letters and numbers makes for better names when it applies to vehicles.

Tim


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## roseyscot (Jan 30, 2005)

actually, the id8 or ideate meaning to form an idea or conceive is supposed to go along with the notion that the id8 (previously known as the odonata) was the first of its kind in the industry. seven formed the idea for carbon/ti mixtures and the industry followed their lead. hence the idea of conceiving something. 

whoever sent you that email kind of missed the major point of the name. oh well.


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## toonraid (Sep 19, 2006)

The next logical question would be what does "Odonata" mean?


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## roseyscot (Jan 30, 2005)

odonata is latin for dragonfly. that's what the carbon/ti effect made people think of when it was first released. odonata also means something offensive in a european language, hence the need for a name change.


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## toonraid (Sep 19, 2006)

I did check on that and came across a very interesting fact. A large dragon fly has awingspan of ..... 7 ...... inches!


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## toonraid (Sep 19, 2006)

And now you can listen to this while riding your Odonata - if u really wanna know the genre, its trance!

View attachment 78738


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## WalterH (Nov 28, 2006)

Thought it means straight gauge - Ti Tubing


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## msohio (Feb 23, 2004)

*Nope Seven says Tim McTeague is Correct*

I called Seven, and Tim's right on the button.


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## WalterH (Nov 28, 2006)

Just got off phone with Seven...they told me specific geometry....custom....


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## Nexus08 (Mar 15, 2008)

Tim, obviously you are not a materials engineer. Carbon fiber and titanium possess vibration dampening qualities that are quite different, so the differentiation in road feel is an empirical phenomena. And to think, I was so impressed with your deduction on what "SG" stands for...


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## mcteague (Feb 7, 2005)

Nexus08 said:


> Tim, obviously you are not a materials engineer. Carbon fiber and titanium possess vibration dampening qualities that are quite different, so the differentiation in road feel is an empirical phenomena. And to think, I was so impressed with your deduction on what "SG" stands for...


And those small vibration differences can be detected by your butt and hands after first having to go through the tires and wheels. Sure.

Tim


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## Nexus08 (Mar 15, 2008)

Ride a ti/carbon bike and then ride a ti bike. The difference in ride characteristics are pretty obvious.


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## mcteague (Feb 7, 2005)

Nexus08 said:


> Ride a ti/carbon bike and then ride a ti bike. The difference in ride characteristics are pretty obvious.


Same size frame, geometry, wheels, tires, seat, handlebar and tape? Unless all those variables are the same you don't really know what is making the ride different. And if they are the same you still have to deal with the placebo effect.

Tim


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## yanksphan (May 18, 2005)

mcteague said:


> Same size frame, geometry, wheels, tires, seat, handlebar and tape? Unless all those variables are the same you don't really know what is making the ride different. And if they are the same you still have to deal with the placebo effect.
> 
> Tim


So because you personally can't discern any difference, then everyone else who can is just fooling themselves?

Riiiight....


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