# Made in USA?



## MSP Greg (May 7, 2007)

Stopped in one LBS today (they have several stores in Minneapolis-St Paul), and one of the staff said that ALL Cannondale carbon was not made in the USA.

Given that Cannondale has a video on their site that speaks of carbon cutting & assembly, I assume some frames are totally constructed in the USA.

Am I correct, and if so, which frames are built in the US?

Thanks,

Greg


----------



## cyclust (Sep 8, 2004)

The Synapse is made in the orient, but the system six and super six are made in the USA.


----------



## daveo (Feb 24, 2008)

*C'Dale Carbon...*

Greg, 
The information you were given for full Cannondale carbon was accurate for 2007 but has changed for 2008 with the introduction of the SuperSix. Apologies for the error. Erik's is very dedicated to staff training and accuracy is very important to us. We will follow up with our entire staff to ensure everyone is on the same page with the 2008 updates.

US Built Carbon Road Product is indeed Six13, SystemSix & SuperSix. All other Carbon is manufactured in Asia. 

Best,
Dave O


----------



## MSP Greg (May 7, 2007)

DaveO,

I didn't mention the LBS, but I guess it was apparent. Didn't mean to seem critical of Erik's. I've always gotten good service at many locations.

BTW, booties saved the day; can't wait until it's dry enough for my SystemSix...

Thanks,

Greg


----------



## daveo (Feb 24, 2008)

*No worries....*

No worries whatsoever. Good customer feedback, whether complimentary or challenging, is always helpful. 

Dave O


----------



## zosocane (Aug 29, 2004)

A tip for those not familiar with the situs of Cannondale frame manufacturing -- when the "HANDMADE IN USA" appears on the frame, that's dispositive that the frame was made in the USA. Those frames that lack the "HANDMADE IN USA" like the Synapse mean that, indeed, the frame was not made in the USA.


----------



## zamboni (Sep 11, 2003)

All Cannondale carbon forks were made in China.


----------



## filtersweep (Feb 4, 2004)

Why is this even a question? Can you buy tires, groupsets, or any components that are made in the US these days? What is so special about frames?



MSP Greg said:


> Stopped in one LBS today (they have several stores in Minneapolis-St Paul), and one of the staff said that ALL Cannondale carbon was not made in the USA.
> 
> Given that Cannondale has a video on their site that speaks of carbon cutting & assembly, I assume some frames are totally constructed in the USA.
> 
> ...


----------



## zosocane (Aug 29, 2004)

zamboni said:


> All Cannondale carbon forks were made in China.


Disappointlingly true.


----------



## MSP Greg (May 7, 2007)

filtersweep said:


> Why is this even a question? Can you buy tires, groupsets, or any components that are made in the US these days? What is so special about frames?


With many products, many people have a preference for made in 'country.'

As many posts indicate, there is a belief that products made by a manufacturer in a plant controlled by them are better products than products outsourced to third parties.

Conversely, with many transportation products (planes, cars, trucks), which are much more involved than bikes, sub-contractors are the norm.

My SystemSix says "Made in U.S.A.' on the seatstays. Hence, the question. Mostly informational...

Greg


----------



## MaestroXC (Sep 15, 2005)

The new Scalpel and Rize mountain bikes are also made in the US, while the carbon Taurines, Rushes, the new Moto, and the new Slice TT bike are made in Asia.


----------



## JohnnyCat (Jan 22, 2004)

*who cares?*

i fear a lot of this "made in america" obsession is rooted in a misguided belief that it's better for our economy. protectionism rarely, if ever, helps anyone. if you think it does, go back to school. unions and dems have been doing a great deal to mis-educate the public.

however, if it's a cultural thing i can respect that. i hate china's values so i really don't like doing business with them, unless i know i'm getting an unbelievable deal that rips them off. free trade helps everyone. with that said i hate helping cultures i hate. if they had human rights, justice, good envoronmental policies, etc, i'd be fine.


----------



## filtersweep (Feb 4, 2004)

I don't know that the US has a very good human rights record, with the death sentence, gitmo, torture, a massively high incarceration rate, shoddy environmentalism, imperialistic foreign policies, etc. So is THAT the US culture? Or is the culture, just ordinary people? The avg. Chinese employee has little to do with setting the political agenda of the nation, and might not be at all representative of the stereotypes you present.




JohnnyCat said:


> i fear a lot of this "made in america" obsession is rooted in a misguided belief that it's better for our economy. protectionism rarely, if ever, helps anyone. if you think it does, go back to school. unions and dems have been doing a great deal to mis-educate the public.
> 
> however, if it's a cultural thing i can respect that. i hate china's values so i really don't like doing business with them, unless i know i'm getting an unbelievable deal that rips them off. free trade helps everyone. with that said i hate helping cultures i hate. if they had human rights, justice, good envoronmental policies, etc, i'd be fine.


----------



## robertburns3 (Jan 11, 2007)

JohnnyCat said:


> ...free trade helps everyone....


Where is this "free trade" you mention? Many countries are still putting up barriers to American products, especially Asian countries. Having our market open, without equal access to other markets is killing us.

Trade issues aside, I feel that a company that has enough pride in its products to build them themselves, will often have a better product.


----------



## carbon13 (Dec 23, 2007)

l love my cadd 8 and it isnt built in my country. go cannondale


----------



## zamboni (Sep 11, 2003)

Soon that will change since Cannondale is sold to Canadian company and I bet you within a year some of the road bike production will move to oversea.


----------



## Tissot (Feb 17, 2008)

Cannondale frams are ALL made by Giant in Taiwan. Good or Bad ? USA or Taiwan ? How about hamburgers or Fried Rice ? What do you like, dude ?


----------



## zamboni (Sep 11, 2003)

That is not true Six13,System Six & Super Six still made here in PA along with Caad 9, other carbon is made in TW. Do your homework next time before you posted on this board.


----------



## Tissot (Feb 17, 2008)

zamboni said:


> That is not true Six13,System Six & Super Six still made here in PA along with Caad 9, other carbon is made in TW. Do your homework next time before you posted on this board.


How do you know that ?? Did you see the produciton line in person in PA ? :cryin:


----------



## Tissot (Feb 17, 2008)

And YES, I saw the production line here in Taiwan. There are many "commercial" things you don't really know / see if you don't have the connection to see what's going on. But that's ok, I understand. 

Same things to Gateway / HP / Compaq computers.........ALL MADE IN TAIWAN. If you don't like them, just throw them away.


----------



## DieselDan (Sep 14, 2002)

Tissot said:


> How do you know that ?? Did you see the produciton line in person in PA ? :cryin:


I have.


----------



## Tissot (Feb 17, 2008)

DieselDan said:


> I have.



right....... ~~


----------



## cerro (Aug 9, 2006)

Tissot: Why do you think it stands Handmade in USA on their best frames like, SuperSIX, SystemSIX, Six13 and Caad? Of coursee they are made in USA and not by Giant in Taiwan. A lot of people have been there and there is a lot of articles in papers from it. But Synapse is made in Taiwan and every frame that doesn't say Handmade in USA.


----------



## zamboni (Sep 11, 2003)

Let me guess you only had 14 post on this forum and you call yourself an expert on Cannondale product line, go spend time at your LBS and learn some basic about Cannondale bike history, take a close look at this forum most of the members have extended knowledge and experience on the product they choose.


----------



## Tissot (Feb 17, 2008)

zamboni said:


> Let me guess you only had 14 post on this forum and you call yourself an expert on Cannondale product line, go spend time at your LBS and learn some basic about Cannondale bike history, take a close look at this forum most of the members have extended knowledge and experience on the product they choose.


I am not going to argue with you, and I am not surprised at all to see so many americans today refuse to believe lots of "made in USA " products are actually made by other countries... THIS IS A GLOBAL VILLAGE... dude....

I have owned my first Cannondale road bike since 1990 ( All Cannondale frames were made in USA at that time), and then sold my third cannondale before the company went down few years ago. But I am in the process to get my fifth road bike (it's going to be a Cannondale too, because I just love them). AFter cannondale is "re-open", all the frames are NOT made in the US, but "assemble in the US" ( that's how the wolrd trades are today. What we saw is NOT what it really was..)

Same question for you...... Where did you actually see the production line ? Where ? Perhpas you saw the "assembly line", but not a production line. 

When was the last time your LBS update Cannondale's current business activities for you??


----------



## Tissot (Feb 17, 2008)

cerro said:


> Tissot: Why do you think it stands Handmade in USA on their best frames like, SuperSIX, SystemSIX, Six13 and Caad? Of coursee they are made in USA and not by Giant in Taiwan. A lot of people have been there and there is a lot of articles in papers from it. But Synapse is made in Taiwan and every frame that doesn't say Handmade in USA.


As I said, those "production lines" you saw are so called "assemble lines".


----------



## Tissot (Feb 17, 2008)

I am not trying to provoke all the cannondale fans, but check this out, guys :  


http://answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20070731174437AApuCAo


----------



## albundy (May 13, 2007)

my friend bought a caad9 recently and the plastic peg that was on the fork said kinesis on it. Don't know if that's been posted here already.


----------



## Toona (Mar 8, 2006)

Tissot...apparently "you " didn't read your own link...It stated that very few C-Dale frames are made in the U.S.A..That does not translate that ALL C-Dale frames are made in Taiwan by Giant. You are full of crap.....!!


----------



## California L33 (Jan 20, 2006)

filtersweep said:


> The avg. Chinese employee has little to do with setting the political agenda of the nation...


The trouble is- the money doesn't go to them. It goes to help oppress them. The U.S. is far from perfect, but it's been a while since the FBI regularly raided bible study groups (something you can do jail time for in China), and our pollution controls are far, far better than China's.


----------



## eldarko (Oct 27, 2007)

Tissot said:


> How do you know that ?? Did you see the produciton line in person in PA ? :cryin:


I'm really not sure why you keep arguing with everyone. I saw the assembly/production lines in PA as well. I am pretty sure they will give a tour to anybody who schedules in advance. I personally saw them welding frames for the six13, caad, and system6. They also showed us the carbon fiber layup room. 

Many of the components that bolt on the frame are purchased from suppliers in other countries (Shimano, Sram, etc..). This is really not a function of Cannondale since they are going to spec bikes according to customer demand. The final assembly was done in PA.

I always make my purchases based on the product itself, and country of origin does not reflect in this. It does, however, make me feel good to know the great bike I purchased was made in the US.


----------



## zamboni (Sep 11, 2003)

Wow you actualy getting a Cannondale for your next bike why don't do yourself a favor by buying a TW made frame instead of Cannondale.


----------



## Tissot (Feb 17, 2008)

eldarko said:


> I'm really not sure why you keep arguing with everyone. I saw the assembly/production lines in PA as well. I am pretty sure they will give a tour to anybody who schedules in advance. I personally saw them welding frames for the six13, caad, and system6. They also showed us the carbon fiber layup room.
> 
> Many of the components that bolt on the frame are purchased from suppliers in other countries (Shimano, Sram, etc..). This is really not a function of Cannondale since they are going to spec bikes according to customer demand. The final assembly was done in PA.
> 
> I always make my purchases based on the product itself, and country of origin does not reflect in this. It does, however, make me feel good to know the great bike I purchased was made in the US.


At least eldarko showed that himself has seen the factory, but I know what I saw when I was in Taiwan 

*For Toona and Zamboni............ you two had nothing to approve your point, but are only using those "unedcuated" words to make yourself sound stronger and tougher.... pitty....*


----------



## zamboni (Sep 11, 2003)

So what is your point ? Every one on this forum support Cannondale product because the MFG is made here in the U.S except the forks which made in China, that is the reason why I don't buy Giant or Kestrel and many other brands that were made in oversea.


----------



## robbyracer (May 30, 2007)

My '08 Synapse has a Handmade in USA sticker on the top tube right behind the headset. I asked the sales guy at the LBS about it when I bought the bike. He said that a few of the '08 Synapses were indeed handmade in the US.


----------



## CHL (Jun 24, 2005)

Hi Tissot:

Let us know what you saw in Taiwan. I definitely agree with you that Handmade in USA doesn't always reflect the origin of the components. Did you see Cannondale frames (ie anything but the synapse) assembled in Taiwan?

I don't recall if the carbon tubes of the Six13 were manufactured in Bedford Pennsylvania but Cannondale has been explicit with the System Six and the Super Six that the carbon tubes have been manufactured and then assembled as a frameset here in the USA.

I wonder if the bicycle industry will have to standardized their advertisement such as on Monroney Stickers (for autos), where it clearly states the origin of the parts & the place of assembly.

CHL


----------



## robertburns3 (Jan 11, 2007)

robbyracer said:


> My '08 Synapse has a Handmade in USA sticker on the top tube right behind the headset. I asked the sales guy at the LBS about it when I bought the bike. He said that a few of the '08 Synapses were indeed handmade in the US.


I was told by my LBS that more carbon production was being done in the US now that some Aluminum has gone overseas and made space in their factory. Not that LBS staff are always right, but he claimed that anything with carbon would eventually be made in the U.S.


----------



## robertburns3 (Jan 11, 2007)

CHL said:


> I wonder if the bicycle industry will have to standardized their advertisement such as on Monroney Stickers (for autos), where it clearly states the origin of the parts & the place of assembly.
> 
> CHL


I used to work at a shop that sold Schwinn. One year Schwinn had "Designed in USA" on their bikes with the USA being very large. Schwinn was busted for this practice by the FTC, so we had to add "Made in Taiwan" stickers to the head tubes of all the bikes in the shop.

It was bad enough when Schwinn sold out, but they were real jerks for trying to mislead everyone. It is as if they thought they were doing something wrong.


----------



## Svooterz (Jul 29, 2006)

*dig your sources...*

Well recently, I've read some article based on a bicycle trading/buisiness publication on the matter (forgot the name, I know I picked the link on these forums though). They were giving the manufacturing sources for most bike companies and even the location of the exact factories that made them, in some cases. No surprises, most of the stuff is made in China/Taïwan. Among others : LOOK has some carbon bikes built in Asia even though they claim "all LOOK carbon is made in France" on their website. Bianchi makes short of nothing on US or Italian grounds. Specialized is purely chinese/taïwanese, made by Giant. Y'know, all of those "secrets", things that most LBS' keep hidden, but that are somehow easily uncovered on the 'net.

Point is, as of 2008, the magazine stated that Cannondale made MOST of their high-end stuff on US grounds. This would included CAAD series frames, Six13, System6, Super6, Caffeine, aluminium Rush, Scalpel (both alu and carbon) and a few more. But it excludes all of their entry to mid level bikes and notably some high-end models like the Synapse Carbon, Rush carbon, Taurine, etc. 

Since all bike companies do make more money from entry-level sales (the average biker being a low-mileage/pleasure ride tourer), it results that the entry level stuff is produced in much larger numbers and thus accounts for most of the production. Cannondale is no exception and so, most of their production IS outsourced. However, most of the products that make Cannondale shine on the international racing scene, both MTB and road, are built in the US.

Yeah, the forks are chinese. The components too. And so is the clothing. And bottles. And cages. And probably all of their sub-1000$ bikes. But last I checked, Cannondale is honest about it. Last time I saw a Synapse SL Team edition (liquigas colours), it had a nice "Made in Taïwan" sticker on the bottom bracket shell. Granted, it's not the most visible place, but at least, they didn't try to deceive anyone by putting "Made in the US" whereas it's only assembled in the US.

Just one last thing... you didn't need to be so mean on Toona and Zamboni, did you? Look back. Their words were not so harsh before you put that comment, were they?



Tissot said:


> At least eldarko showed that himself has seen the factory, but I know what I saw when I was in Taiwan
> 
> *For Toona and Zamboni............ you two had nothing to approve your point, but are only using those "unedcuated" words to make yourself sound stronger and tougher.... pitty....*


----------



## jeffreyg (Nov 23, 2005)

JohnnyCat said:


> i fear a lot of this "made in america" obsession is rooted in a misguided belief that it's better for our economy. protectionism rarely, if ever, helps anyone. if you think it does, go back to school. unions and dems have been doing a great deal to mis-educate the public.
> 
> however, if it's a cultural thing i can respect that. i hate china's values so i really don't like doing business with them, unless i know i'm getting an unbelievable deal that rips them off. free trade helps everyone. with that said i hate helping cultures i hate. if they had human rights, justice, good envoronmental policies, etc, i'd be fine.


?... I have nothing against China, but if my money goes to an American company, it not only goes to its employees in the form of salaries, health care and other benifits, it leads to profits, that in turn lead to capital improvement projects (new machinery and tooling) that are souced from other American companies, who in turn pay salaries, health care and other benifits, not even mentioning all of these companies suppliers who would benefit and all of restaurants and retailers that employees would spend thier money in. A vicious cycle like this would lead to economic growth and prosperity.


----------

