# Hamilton's at it again



## Sojourneyman (Jun 22, 2007)

http://www.cyclingnews.com/news.php?id=news/2009/apr09/apr17news3



> Rock Racing's Tyler Hamilton is facing a possible lifetime ban from cycling following a positive doping control, Cyclingnews learned Friday.


My first reaction to this was to chuckle. Sad to see though. You'd think a man would learn


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## hooligan (Sep 30, 2006)

it was his illegitimate twin cousin who did it....


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## El Guapo (Dec 10, 2002)

*Hamilton is an IDIOT!*

Too bad he cheated other riders out of an opportunity to be a US National champion. Ban him for life. Not just from Professional events, but from amateur as well. He has cheated people out of money, glory and many other things. They should strip him of his National jersey as well. Doubt they will, though. He still considers himself an Olympic champion.


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## Coolhand (Jul 28, 2002)

Sojourneyman said:


> http://www.cyclingnews.com/news.php?id=news/2009/apr09/apr17news3
> 
> 
> 
> My first reaction to this was to chuckle. Sad to see though. You'd think a man would learn


My first was that this should go in the doping forum.


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## Creakyknees (Sep 21, 2003)

What a shame. I actually have sympathy for the guy, which I rarely have for idjucts.


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## smbrum (Jul 9, 2008)

wrong forum - there is a post in the doping forum however thats been going on for a little while now. I suspect this one will be moved but if interested you might want to check out the former thread. Interesting to see the discussion and predictions going on long before the formal word was released.


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## roadie92 (Jan 21, 2008)

How stupid do you have to be?!?! He did it once and he decided to do it again. I'm glad he is getting out of the sport!!


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## iliveonnitro (Feb 19, 2006)

Maybe the first time I felt bad and like there was a legitimate reason ("everyone is doing them").

Now, I don't feel bad.


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## Sojourneyman (Jun 22, 2007)

Coolhand said:


> My first was that this should go in the doping forum.


:mad2: Forgot about that one, it's being coy and tucked away at the bottom


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## BuenosAires (Apr 3, 2004)

Too bad, sounds like he is battling depression. Apparently DHEA has little to no performance enhancing properties. Why is this substance even banned?


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## ProRoad (Oct 13, 2008)

a little compassion is due I think. Lets not kill him like so many of the others, Pantani, Daijka, et all.


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## El Guapo (Dec 10, 2002)

*They cheated. Sympathy is NOT warranted.*



ProRoad said:


> a little compassion is due I think. Lets not kill him like so many of the others, Pantani, Daijka, et all.


They have "stolen" what was not rightly theirs. I guess we should have compassion for Madoff, the Enron guys, Mozillo and all the other Wall Street cheats. 

Pantani? Don't get me started.

Depression? Whatever. Not an excuse to cheat.

Face it, Hamilton lied, lied again, and then lied to cover that up. Now he is simply minimizing his "error in judgment." 

Good riddance I say. Strip him of his National Title! They won't, just like they didn't with his Olympic medal.


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## tschramm (May 13, 2007)

*Puzzled*



BuenosAires said:


> Too bad, sounds like he is battling depression. Apparently DHEA has little to no performance enhancing properties. Why is this substance even banned?


I don't understand either. Does anyone have an explanation on what DHEA would do to enhance performance?


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## BikinCO (Feb 17, 2004)

El Guapo said:


> They have "stolen" what was not rightly theirs. I guess we should have compassion for Madoff, the Enron guys, Mozillo and all the other Wall Street cheats.
> 
> Pantani? Don't get me started.
> 
> ...


It is sad. He took an over the counter anti-depressant that contained DHEA that is not a performance enhancer. 

According to Scott, the level found in Hamilton's urine was not consistent with him taking large amounts of the drug.

This from Dr. Scott:



> "There is no scientific evidence or basis for this steroid to be a performance enhancer," said Scott. "It is fair to suggest that the probability of DHEA having a performance effect on anyone, at any amount taken is inconceivable. There is no good reason to take DHEA, this is a very foolish drug to take because it is readily detectable, but it has no performance enhancements."


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## bigpinkt (Jul 20, 2006)

BikinCO said:


> It is sad. He took an over the counter anti-depressant that contained DHEA that is not a performance enhancer.
> 
> According to Scott, the level found in Hamilton's urine was not consistent with him taking large amounts of the drug.
> 
> This from Dr. Scott:


Dr. Scott? the same guy who tried disrupt the testing of the Landis B sample? The same guy who invented the "We were locked out" lie? The guy who was kicked out of his own company for all the conflicts of interest?

Lets try to find a better source then Dr. Scott.


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## philippec (Jun 16, 2002)

laughing....


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## BikinCO (Feb 17, 2004)

*Ok*



bigpinkt said:


> Dr. Scott? the same guy who tried disrupt the testing of the Landis B sample? The same guy who invented the "We were locked out" lie? The guy who was kicked out of his own company for all the conflicts of interest?
> 
> Lets try to find a better source then Dr. Scott.


http://publicsafety.com/article/article.jsp?id=1918&siteSection=14



> There is little research on the anabolic effects or side effects of DHEA.


There is little to no reseach that show the performancing enhancing benefits of DHEA.


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## soup67 (Feb 26, 2004)

*Apparently it is a steroid*

that converts to testosterone. It requires an Rx in Canada; probably here too soon, according to wiki. Not sure about the levels or if it is a PED, but gosh, it is banned for being in a class of drugs that enhances performance. This coupled with Tyler's track record is enough for me to sadly say good riddance. 

soup
a guy who was in Bayonne in 2003 cheering him to his "heroic" stage win.

EDIT: Hope he gets his personal life straightened out soon; I don't wish depression on anyone..


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## bigpinkt (Jul 20, 2006)

BikinCO said:


> http://publicsafety.com/article/article.jsp?id=1918&siteSection=14


Nothing in this link supports Dr. Scott's assertion of "the level found in Hamilton's urine was not consistent with him taking large amounts of the drug" which is what I posted about. 

I would agree that DHEA powers are questionable, because there has been little research. .....but the same is often said of Actovegen, Testosterone, HGH and many other drugs that athletes find benefit in every day.


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## Bocephus Jones II (Oct 7, 2004)

tschramm said:


> I don't understand either. Does anyone have an explanation on what DHEA would do to enhance performance?


In general it doesn't.


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## txzen (Apr 6, 2005)

It doesn't matter if it's proven to be not be very good as a performance enhancer. Heck, there's a fairly large question that the testosterone patches that are used do much of anything...but they still get used. 

Remember Landis? Part of his defense was that the testosterone he tested positive for didn't have anything to do with his performance the day after he bonked. I tend to agree, but he still doped. 

Maybe Hamilton didn't use this as a performance enhancer. But given he's a manipulating pathological liar, who cares?


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## ibfeet (Jul 13, 2006)

Does he lose his US Championship?


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## cazdrvr (Oct 11, 2005)

Agree that people caught cheating should be penalized. Me thinks many doth protest too much. Glass houses and all. Hope the man can find help and deal with his transgressions in a healthy manner going forward.


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## lookrider (Dec 3, 2006)

*This is the least of his problems.*



ibfeet said:


> Does he lose his US Championship?


The Olympic gold and all this other stuff is part of the junk of his life and his pursuit of these things at all costs are what got him in this mess in the first place.


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## roadie_490 (Jun 11, 2004)

I hope none of you ever have to struggle through the effects of depression. It is a real and legitimate disease. Funny how fast the tools on this forum can be quick to judge. Have a family member go through the effects of depression, then get back to us on why he chose to make those decisions.

All I seem to hear in any of these responses, is "he cheated", with little discussion as to why, or his openness to air his problems in public


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## TheDon (Feb 3, 2006)

Hopefully he gets the help he needs for his depression. No need to throw stones at him considering he isn't denying that he took DHEA and is accepting the consequences.


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## function (Jun 20, 2008)

roadie_490 said:


> I hope none of you ever have to struggle through the effects of depression. It is a real and legitimate disease. Funny how fast the tools on this forum can be quick to judge. Have a family member go through the effects of depression, then get back to us on why he chose to make those decisions.
> 
> All I seem to hear in any of these responses, is "he cheated", with little discussion as to why, or his openness to air his problems in public


Agreed, if you've ever been depressed you would know that any hope is better than succumbing even further, the choice is your entire wellbeing vs a domestic cycling career? Seems like a risk worth taking.


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## cheddarlove (Oct 17, 2005)

Realy!! What a bunch of rabid judgemental phychopaths!
Walk a mile in someone's shoes that has depression before you tar and feather him!
Defending his past transgressions? Not at all! 
Defending this one? A bit! I feel sorry for him. 
Hopefully he'll get the help he needs and move on.


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## WalterJ (Sep 17, 2002)

TheDon said:


> Hopefully he gets the help he needs for his depression. No need to throw stones at him considering he isn't denying that he took DHEA and is accepting the consequences.


Exactly! There's no "vanishing twin defense" or anything else. The best that he can hope for from the USADA is 8 years which puts him into his mid40s. Maybe he'll show up in a M45+ pack some day?

His career is over. His depression (apparently verified by his Doc) is still with him and must be dealt with.

I don't excuse anything but I wish him luck.


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## lookrider (Dec 3, 2006)

I wonder if Hamilton's creation of the "Believe" campaign in 2004 after being nailed for injecting someone else's blood, and getting away with injecting, and injesting a truckload of drugs in both 2003, and 2004, helped him alleviate the depression diagnosed in 2003

It's kind of ironic that LeMond has been scorned and ridiculed many times on these threads with many negative allusions to the state of his mental health.

There wasn't all that much empathy for LeMond when he was extorted by Mr. Trust but Verify and then outed by his lackey for being a victim of child molestation.

No, LeMond, who was known to be grappling with family and emotional issues, as well as ADHD is labeled a whiner which was among the nicer appellations.

I guess that is what is meant by empathy here.


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## cazdrvr (Oct 11, 2005)

I am sure some folks did the same to Lemond and others, and it should garner the same reactions. So is it ok to do it in this instance? Has anyone posting on an internet forum who has raced or currently races bikes engaged in taking ANY banned substances?


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## Bianchigirl (Sep 17, 2004)

Agreed lookrider - if Hamilton is suffering from depression I hope he gets the help he needs. Yet this is a rider who has lied and denied with the best of them and in a way that makes Virenque look almost principled. DHEA was part of the old East German doping regime and is on the banned list because it can be a masking agent.

So forgive me for not jumping on the 'Poor Tyler' empathy bandwagon but he's cried 'wolf' too many times. If he wants to be principled he'll give back the tarnished Gold he cheated his way to. If he wants to help the sport he'll tell what he knows and start the clean up. At least those would be positive steps.


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## cazdrvr (Oct 11, 2005)

Actually would be great if all the tarnished awards were returned. Even more principled would be all of the riders never caught, but guilty of infractions stepping up and doing so!


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## snosaw (May 30, 2006)

This is really sad. I feel for the guy. I also feel sorry for the industry for the lack of compassion.
No matter what people think, depression IS real. A previous post said, "Depression? Whatever. Not an excuse to cheat."

I guess that I would say I do not think it's cheating. Depression can make one feel helpless...hopeless and out of your mind. I have seen many reach for anything in desperation, for assistance. They do not think clearly. They want immediate help because their mind is melting. Unfortunately, our society does not except depression as an illness. Think of how many times you have thought of or flat out said "so and so is Crazy" or "nut job" or whatever. Imagine giving someone a hard time if they broke their leg? Many people jump at the opportunity to drive them to the hospital. But not with mental illnesses. Our society tends to push them away. Think of all the people who hide their mental illness from even their best friends? You truly would be surprised at how many of your friends take some form of psychotropic medication without you even knowing. And almost all psychotropic meds are on the "banned" list. I would guess that close to 1/3 or more of the riders in your club or on your team take something. 

If he truly is suffering from mental illness, give him some slack. As the rules state, DHEA is on the banned list so he does deserve whatever penalty handed to him. However, this does not make him a bad person, a cheat, a liar, whatever. He just needs help and I truly hope he finds it. I hope Tyler makes it through these difficult times and I hope he has a good support network.

Another thought...think of all the professional mountaineers who have taken Decadron (aka dexamethesone) to save their life when succumbing to HACE. It's an anti-swelling, brain steroid that is also on the banned list. Should we give them **** for taking a banned substance? Heck they may not be competing but they are professionals and are sponsored. They are using something to "ehance" their performance. I vote for "no". Let them take it because it saves lives.


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## jorgy (Oct 21, 2005)

Bianchigirl said:


> Agreed lookrider - if Hamilton is suffering from depression I hope he gets the help he needs. Yet this is a rider who has lied and denied with the best of them and in a way that makes Virenque look almost principled. DHEA was part of the old East German doping regime and is on the banned list because it can be a masking agent.
> 
> So forgive me for not jumping on the 'Poor Tyler' empathy bandwagon but he's cried 'wolf' too many times. If he wants to be principled he'll give back the tarnished Gold he cheated his way to. If he wants to help the sport he'll tell what he knows and start the clean up. At least those would be positive steps.



I feel pretty much the same way. He's a cheating liar. Good riddance.


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## eyebob (Feb 3, 2004)

*No offense BianchiGirl, but you wouldn't defend anything a former Postal rider did.*

You seem to have a pathologic issue with having issues with a) American riders and b) anyone who rode for Postal.

With regards to Tyler, I for one, only hope he gets help. I don't care what he did and when, I care that the human get's better. 

Geesh. Walk a mile in his shoes

bt


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## WalterJ (Sep 17, 2002)

His career is over, he's going to be banned. There will be no more news about him as a competitive cyclist. What more do you guys want? 

Some of you all come off as really petty. He didn't cheat me (or you) out of a thing. His transgressions have no comparison to Madoff, a person who destroyed the life's savings of many people. He cheated in a sporting event. Was caught, served his suspension, made a come back and was caught again and will now be banned. End of story. 

Depression runs in his family and is a terrible illness that drives people to make very poor choices. He did, he'll pay. Move on.

Enjoying other people's misery is a sad way to go through life.


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## Bianchigirl (Sep 17, 2004)

How do you know I haven't? And how do you know this isn't yet another one of Hamilton's stories? Fact is you don't but you will give 'good old Tyler' the benfit of the doubt you'd deny to Simeoni or Manzano or Jaksche or hundreds of other riders who've tested positive, who all have their own reasons and stories and issues. But a serial doper like Hamilton says he's depressed and everyone rolls over and excuses all previous offenses. 

I don't particularly care for any of the dopers who have had such an adverse effect on the sport whatever their nationality. I think the treatment of Hamilton from people who have vilified others for the same 'mistake' is frankly a joke.


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## Digger28 (Oct 9, 2008)

WalterJ said:


> His career is over, he's going to be banned. There will be no more news about him as a competitive cyclist. What more do you guys want?
> 
> Some of you all come off as really petty. He didn't cheat me (or you) out of a thing. His transgressions have no comparison to Madoff, a person who destroyed the life's savings of many people. He cheated in a sporting event. Was caught, served his suspension, made a come back and was caught again and will now be banned. End of story.
> 
> ...


Firstly, cheating cyclists did clean ones, and and their families, out of money, glory, prestige. He essentially stole from the clean riders. Full stop.
Believe Tyler was also set up on lies, and involved people donating money to a cause in which they were misled, to say the least.


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## robdamanii (Feb 13, 2006)

Bianchigirl said:


> How do you know I haven't? And how do you know this isn't yet another one of Hamilton's stories? Fact is you don't but you will give 'good old Tyler' the benfit of the doubt you'd deny to Simeoni or Manzano or Jaksche or hundreds of other riders who've tested positive, who all have their own reasons and stories and issues. But a serial doper like Hamilton says he's depressed and everyone rolls over and excuses all previous offenses.
> 
> I don't particularly care for any of the dopers who have had such an adverse effect on the sport whatever their nationality. I think the treatment of Hamilton from people who have vilified others for the same 'mistake' is frankly a joke.


How is he villified? He's not trying to get out of what's coming to him. He admitted he took it, figured he'd be caught, but it didn't matter to him. He's accepted it, so what more do you want from him?

So many of them deny taking anything, and the one time someone admits it, you crucify them.


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## Digger28 (Oct 9, 2008)

robdamanii said:


> How is he villified? He's not trying to get out of what's coming to him. He admitted he took it, figured he'd be caught, but it didn't matter to him. He's accepted it, so what more do you want from him?
> 
> So many of them deny taking anything, and the one time someone admits it, you crucify them.


The point with Tyler is that he has told so many lies, why should anyone believe him now?
And secondly, he still is not willing to own up to any of the major doping he carried out. The doping where he had big wins.


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## blackhat (Jan 2, 2003)

Digger28 said:


> The point with Tyler is that he has told so many lies, why should anyone believe him now?


he's got little credit but everyone tells the truth sometimes 

go read joe lindsey's blog post about his conference call, it's sort of enlightening.

http://bicycling.com/blogs/boulderreport/2009/04/17/believing-tyler/


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## robdamanii (Feb 13, 2006)

Digger28 said:


> The point with Tyler is that he has told so many lies, why should anyone believe him now?
> And secondly, he still is not willing to own up to any of the major doping he carried out. The doping where he had big wins.


So you should never believe anyone ever again. Nice attitude.  

He has nothing to lose at this point. What good would lying do him?


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## jorgy (Oct 21, 2005)

robdamanii said:


> He has nothing to lose at this point. What good would lying do him?


Au contraire. There's a big difference in how he will be perceived by the general public and possibly sanctioned by USA Cycling if can convince people he's a sympathetic, depressed figure.


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## bigpinkt (Jul 20, 2006)

robdamanii said:


> He has nothing to lose at this point. What good would lying do him?


With his "Believe Tyler" Campaign he suckered his followers out of over a $1,000,000. They would have a great case for fraud if he ever decided to tell the truth.


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## bigpinkt (Jul 20, 2006)

eyebob said:


> You seem to have a pathologic issue with having issues with a) American riders and b) anyone who rode for Postal.


I have read Bianchigirl expertly dissect the myth of riders like Virenque, Riis, Indurain, and many more. She does not limit her writing of the truth to just certain riders and certain team. 

I HAVE seen many posters here who are pathologic in their defense of certain teams and American riders. They are willing to believe the most absurd conspiracy theories and consistently embarrass themselves in their emotional defense of liars.


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## robdamanii (Feb 13, 2006)

bigpinkt said:


> With his "Believe Tyler" Campaign he suckered his followers out of over a $1,000,000. They would have a great case for fraud if he ever decided to tell the truth.


Yeah, I'm sure you have a legal case for that.


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## Bry03cobra (Oct 31, 2006)

Bianchigirl said:


> I don't particularly care for any of the dopers who have had such an adverse effect on the sport whatever their nationality.


So your not a fan of any pros then?

There isn't anyone out there now that would surprise me if they got caught. Look at last year. Guys still cheating cause they thought CERA couldn't be detected. I'm sure there are guys doping on Columbia, Astana, Saxo and even Garmin. There will always be riders looking for an edge. Whenever anyone gets caught, they Lie. I'm a fan of cycling. I have come to realize doping is part of it. Watching Ricco blaze up the mountain was great. Was I bummed he was pumped up with CERA, yes. But it will never stop.


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## lookrider (Dec 3, 2006)

robdamanii said:


> Yeah, I'm sure you have a legal case for that.


Why wouldn't they have a legal case for that? The only impediment is possibly the statute of limitations.

People have been put in prison for conning victims out of less money.

Just answer the question.


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## OES (Jan 23, 2002)

blackhat said:


> he's got little credit but everyone tells the truth sometimes
> 
> go read joe lindsey's blog post about his conference call, it's sort of enlightening.
> 
> http://bicycling.com/blogs/boulderreport/2009/04/17/believing-tyler/


I read that, and thought: Enough. Time to get off his back. I don't want him to be rhe American Pantani. But that's just me. I don't think sports is more important than life and death.


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