# Talk to me bout drum brakes



## Argentius (Aug 26, 2004)

I'm a daily commuter in the rainy, hilly PNW, but my new commute has a steep, stairstep urban downhill with stoplights and cross-streets that is dicey in the wet.

There's a new commuter bike that I'm looking at equipped with drum brakes.

My rim brakes aren't exactly confidence-inspiring; I had a bike two winters ago with discs, and that worked GREAT on a similar hill.

How about the drums? My guess would be less stopping power than the discs, but 100% functional in rain, unlike rim brakes.


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## MB1 (Jan 27, 2004)

When I worked at Santana (oh so many years ago) we spent a lot of time investigating drum brakes. We came to the conclusion that the manufacturers intended them for casual use. We eventually settled on the Arai drum brake then machined the brake surface of each one on arrival. They worked quite well after the machining but are more of a drag brake and heat sink useful on a tandem than a stopping brake for a single bike.

There are also band brakes which are sometimes sold as drum brakes. They pretty much suck.

Bottom line, get disc brakes.

HTH


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## Argentius (Aug 26, 2004)

Right, Santana used those suckers as drag brakes for the rear of a tandem, and that's about it?

Well, the bike I am looking at, it's a proto but it looks like it's got drums front and rear, and it's a slick little self contained commuter. I overall like it better than the disc equipped model, and that ones comes stock with some crummy Tektro discs, anyway.



MB1 said:


> When I worked at Santana (oh so many years ago) we spent a lot of time investigating drum brakes. We came to the conclusion that the manufacturers intended them for casual use. We eventually settled on the Arai drum brake then machined the brake surface of each one on arrival. They worked quite well after the machining but are more of a drag brake and heat sink useful on a tandem than a stopping brake for a single bike.
> 
> There are also band brakes which are sometimes sold as drum brakes. They pretty much suck.
> 
> ...


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## FatTireFred (Jan 31, 2005)

Argentius said:


> Right, Santana used those suckers as drag brakes for the rear of a tandem, and that's about it?
> 
> Well, the bike I am looking at, it's a proto but it looks like it's got drums front and rear, and it's a slick little self contained commuter. I overall like it better than the disc equipped model, and that ones comes stock with some crummy Tektro discs, anyway.




then get the drums, but make sure it has disc mount/compatible hub, at least in the front


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## Fixed (May 12, 2005)

*ok*

My Bianchi Milano has a Nexus 7 rear hub with a drum brake. It has always worked fine, but that is in combination with a front v brake. It does take a bit more effort than a rim or disc brake. If it were me and I had a choice up front, I'd go with a mechanical disc brake. The drum brakes will work ok, though.


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## Fixed (May 12, 2005)

*tandem*



MB1 said:


> When I worked at Santana (oh so many years ago) we spent a lot of time investigating drum brakes. We came to the conclusion that the manufacturers intended them for casual use. We eventually settled on the Arai drum brake then machined the brake surface of each one on arrival. They worked quite well after the machining but are more of a drag brake and heat sink useful on a tandem than a stopping brake for a single bike.
> 
> There are also band brakes which are sometimes sold as drum brakes. They pretty much suck.
> 
> ...


Don't tandems use hub brakes, hub or disc, primarily so that you won't overheat and blow up your tires on long descents?


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## Argentius (Aug 26, 2004)

Those Milanos are nice bikes.

This is something kind of along the same lines, but less cafe-retro.

Dual-drum or roller-brakes are all over Amsterdam and what have you, to deal with the wet roads, but I didn't know how well they'd handle a steep descent.



Fixed said:


> My Bianchi Milano has a Nexus 7 rear hub with a drum brake. It has always worked fine, but that is in combination with a front v brake. It does take a bit more effort than a rim or disc brake. If it were me and I had a choice up front, I'd go with a mechanical disc brake. The drum brakes will work ok, though.


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## Argentius (Aug 26, 2004)

*It is so*



Fixed said:


> Don't tandems use hub brakes, hub or disc, primarily so that you won't overheat and blow up your tires on long descents?


They can sit there and use the rear as a "drag brake," because tandems go downhill FAST, so often they want a constant drag against their accelleration.

Yeah, you'd blow up a tire, or just burn through your rims in a hurry, if you tried to use a rear rim brake to create that much friction.


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## Fixed (May 12, 2005)

*safe*



Argentius said:


> Those Milanos are nice bikes.
> 
> This is something kind of along the same lines, but less cafe-retro.
> 
> Dual-drum or roller-brakes are all over Amsterdam and what have you, to deal with the wet roads, but I didn't know how well they'd handle a steep descent.


My guess is that if they are used on a tandem, that's good enough for me. 

How fast do you plan on riding this thing down mountains, il falco?


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## Argentius (Aug 26, 2004)

*It is how fast*

I DON'T want to ride!

I live in the city, it's only about a 300-foot descent, but it's a steep stairstep with cross-traffic stoplights, and there's no way around it, as I'm on a little peninsula.

With the rim brakes on my roadie, and koolstop pads, it's okay if I start the descent braking, but in the wet if I let the speed build up it takes a long time for the pads to heat up enough and throw enough water off that it stops.




Fixed said:


> My guess is that if they are used on a tandem, that's good enough for me.
> 
> How fast do you plan on riding this thing down mountains, il falco?


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## Fixed (May 12, 2005)

*ok*



Argentius said:


> I DON'T want to ride!
> 
> I live in the city, it's only about a 300-foot descent, but it's a steep stairstep with cross-traffic stoplights, and there's no way around it, as I'm on a little peninsula.
> 
> With the rim brakes on my roadie, and koolstop pads, it's okay if I start the descent braking, but in the wet if I let the speed build up it takes a long time for the pads to heat up enough and throw enough water off that it stops.


I think that any decent quality drum brake, especially two, will be fine. You'll likely have more brake than tire grip in the rain.


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## MB1 (Jan 27, 2004)

Fixed said:


> My guess is that if they are used on a tandem, that's good enough for me. ...


I should hope not. Tandems drivers can yank the heck out of the front brake without worrying about lock up or skidding because of all the weight way behind the wheel. Therefore you can get away with a rear drag brake that really doesn't stop all that well since you can safely get crazy with the front brake.

And yes, the rear brake (disc or drum) will get smokin' hot on a long downhill but still work well enough since you don't rely on it for all that much stopping power.

BTW I love my WinZip tandem disc brake with 10" rotor. It works so much better than any rear brake I have ever used on a tandem (although it seems like Santana still uses the Arai Drum brake on their triplets and quads).


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## davidka (Dec 12, 2001)

If the drum brakes you're referring to are Shimano roller brakes then they work fine. They don't have a ton of power but they're plenty to stop you, they can lock the wheels. Pros= maintenance free, work in any weather, not overly grabby so you shouldn't have skidding problems, no rotors to get bent in public bike racks. Cons=heavy, not overly powerful, must use proprietary frame mounting and wheels (no swapping wheels from bike to bike) will likely not have QR's so they can make flats more inconvenient.


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## Slim Again Soon (Oct 25, 2005)

Are drum brakes and roller brakes the same thing?


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