# OPINION:Motobecane Super Mirage and Mirage Sport Road bikes



## choklit

Hi everyone!

I am just getting into cycling and looking for a decent road bike to get started with. As a student I have a very low budget, I will be using the bike to travel to and from campus (20km daily).


I have also been looking at some new starter Motobecane road bikes both have Shimano Sora components. I have attached the following links to the specs on these two respective bikes. Any information anyone has on these bikes would be greatly appreciated.


http://www.bikesdirect.com/products/motobecane/super.html

http://www.bikesdirect.com/products/motobecane/miragesport.htm


----------



## Lifelover

*Go with the "Sport"*



choklit said:


> Hi everyone!
> 
> I am just getting into cycling and looking for a decent road bike to get started with. As a student I have a very low budget, I will be using the bike to travel to and from campus (20km daily).
> 
> 
> I have also been looking at some new starter Motobecane road bikes both have Shimano Sora components. I have attached the following links to the specs on these two respective bikes. Any information anyone has on these bikes would be greatly appreciated.
> 
> 
> http://www.bikesdirect.com/products/motobecane/super.html
> 
> http://www.bikesdirect.com/products/motobecane/miragesport.htm



One time while shopping at Cycle Spectrum (the retail version of Bikes Direct owned by the same guy) I was talking with the manager and he told me that one of the ways BD can sell the stuff so cheap is volume. To help with this they really only order 1 model Alum frame for the entire Moto line up. This means that the $395.00 Mirage Sport has the same exact frame as the top of the line Le Champion. Heck they sell just the frame in the team colors for the same price. Team Le Champion. The only difference is the fork.

Historically all the BD stuff has issues with the paint peeling off but if you are using it as a daily commuter having look like crap is really an advantage. It's less likely to get stolen.

I would avoid their steel frames. While it is true that upper end steel frames are great the BD steel frames are made of the same kind of steel by the same folks that make the Pacifica and other Discount store bikes. This means that the Super Mirage most likely weights +26 lbs and the older cheaper steel is prone to rusting. Sounds like yours will be left outside a lot.


Glad I could help!


----------



## wsexson

Lifelover said:


> Historically all the BD stuff has issues with the paint peeling off but if you are using it as a daily commuter having look like crap is really an advantage. It's less likely to get stolen.


No paint problems with my 2001 Motobecane Le Champion. I have no knowledge about their steel frames.


----------



## rcnute

Um, I don't think "choklit" is sincerely asking questions.


----------



## ultimobici

*I'll reserve judgement but....*

Motobecane went bust a long time ago, they were resurrected as MBK until recently. This Motobecane brand is nothing to do with the European marque that La Redoute's team rode in the early 80's. It's as far as I can see merely a name bought off the shelf for BD to market their more expensive models under. The frames are generic catalogue Taiwanese frames, costing no more than $100 at cost. They are trading on another company's heritage & sporting history FRAUDULENTLY. What if a US based company bought the rights to the name Iso Griffo and put the name on a sports *style* car made in Korea and marketed it using the heritage of the marques history?
Looking at the steel framed bike in the link - no way is that a $900 bike ever. $500 tops. For less than $700 you can get an 06 Trek 1000 so if you look for a 05 model you'll get an infinitely better bike with alloy frame & carbon fork!


----------



## wsexson

rcnute said:


> Um, I don't think "choklit" is sincerely asking questions.


Unfortunately for legitimate users of this board, you are probably right.


----------



## ravenmore

wsexson said:


> Unfortunately for legitimate users of this board, you are probably right.


Might be right - could be more shill tactics, although I guess its not totally out of the realm of possibility.... I get tired of 2nd guessing.

Ultimobici - that's one way of looking at it, although to be honest the original Motobecane bikes were nothing much to write home about either. There were one or two exceptions, but most of their bikes were average to below average compared with other bikes of the day. The current company's "generic" taiwanese frames are pretty sweet actually and I wouldn't mind picking up a couple on the cheap from ebay, ect..... And there is some debate that they are rebadged name brand frames. For instance the Immortal Force looks dead on like a Garneau, and the Le Champ appears to be a rebranded Fuji Team SL. I have the latter and the bikes frame geometry, component specs, fork are all identical to the Fuji. I've had my bike for coming up on a year now and have been pretty happy. I'm thinking of picking up another for the upcoming racing season as a crit bike. 

Another way to look at it is that they bought the Moto name, then are paying at least some homage to the company by maintaining the same models in the line. They had to do a bit of research for that. And lastly, if the original Motobecane was still around, don't you think they might be doing the same thing? Getting their frames from some place like Kinesis (a very reputable Taiwanese frame builder) instead of building them themselves? Perhaps the lack of effective business/manufacturing tactics like this lead to them going out of business in the first place......


----------



## JayTee

Setting aside the questions above about whether this is a shill posting for BD...


There no reason in the world why a student should by either of these bikes as a commuter. A commuter bike should be a total beater, particularly with the high theft rate on campus. With the short distance you are riding, and presumably in an urban setting, I'd jump on Craig's List (or similar) for my area and find an old hardtail MTB.

If you really want a road bike, and really want to spend $300-$400, then hit the used market. You'll find some stuff from the mid-90s in that price range.


----------



## bwana

Or a Trek 7000 for $260. Not a bad bike at all for the money, more or less equivalent to a hardtail MTB with a fixed fork, and if you buy it new, you get tune ups and a warranty. Giant has a similar model around the same price.


----------



## choklit

rcnute said:


> Um, I don't think "choklit" is sincerely asking questions.



Dude you spend too much time on this site thinking up conspiracy theories, I am asking a legit question. I wanted to know if anyone had any freakin idea about these bikes, because I was interested. That is about as "sincere" as it gets. Aren't these forms free to ask others questions???


----------



## ravenmore

choklit said:


> Dude you spend too much time on this site thinking up conspiracy theories, I am asking a legit question. I wanted to know if anyone had any freakin idea about these bikes, because I was interested. That is about as "sincere" as it gets. Aren't these forms free to ask others questions???


You have to understand where we're coming from. Bikesdirect has a habit of posting here as a first time poster asking questions about their products to generate interest in their site and their products. Though you are legit there have been dozens of post that fit that mold and your post on the surface looks like it could be a "shill" as well. We've been bitten quite a few times and that's why we're suspicious. 

Having said that. Even though I'm not crazy about their shilling I own two Motobecanes and like them very much.


----------



## alienator

ravenmore said:


> You have to understand where we're coming from. Bikesdirect has a habit of posting here as a first time poster asking questions about their products to generate interest in their site and their products. Though you are legit there have been dozens of post that fit that mold and your post on the surface looks like it could be a "shill" as well. We've been bitten quite a few times and that's why we're suspicious.


I am curious to know how everyone knows for certain that these questions aren't legit. Was there evidence found?

FWIW BikesDirect has there ads freakin' everywhere, and since newbies see the ads, whats so strange about a newbie or not so newbie asking about what appears to be a good deal on a bike? I'd imagine for every legit shill for BD, here, everyone else has pissed off at least 2 people that weren't shills.


----------



## rcnute

The few posts and the non-idiomatic English scream "shill" to me.


----------



## ravenmore

alienator said:


> I am curious to know how everyone knows for certain that these questions aren't legit. Was there evidence found?
> 
> FWIW BikesDirect has there ads freakin' everywhere, and since newbies see the ads, whats so strange about a newbie or not so newbie asking about what appears to be a good deal on a bike? I'd imagine for every legit shill for BD, here, everyone else has pissed off at least 2 people that weren't shills.


Well, if you look a few posts up, I was giving the OP the benefit of the doubt. I was simply explaining in the quote from me in your post why people here might be suspicious. 

I have seen some pretty suspicious posts that look like shills. Others look like geniune interests...sometimes its hard to discern. My approach is unless you're REAL sure its a shill then give them the benefit of the doubt. And most of the time its hard to be real sure. 

Sorry, didn't mean to give anyone a hard time.


----------



## alienator

rcnute said:


> The few posts and the non-idiomatic English scream "shill" to me.


And exactly how many posts do you expect newbies to have? Is there something that is earned w/ more posts? Non-idiomatic English? Well, I hate to tell ya, some of the 'merican folks round these parts have real issues typing their thoughts in English.

Do you have anything else other than irrational suspicions?

You know you only have 112 posts, so it's not like you're the Ol' Man around here.


----------



## pianopiano

*Sadly pathetic but true*

Whatever you want to call it, pathetic shills will always be a part of a free forum.
And people will continue buy bikes from Walmart or Sams Club or (nice point ultimobici) BikesDirect or wherever.


----------



## ravenmore

well - make no mistake while they're marketing is questionable their bikes are actually a pretty good deal. I wouldn't compare them to Walmart bikes. I've purchased 3 and own 2 (the other was gift). They're an excellent value for the money. People seem to get upset with Bikesdirect for a variety of reasons and start bashing their product even though they've never tried it.


----------



## ultimobici

ravenmore said:


> well - make no mistake while they're marketing is questionable their bikes are actually a pretty good deal. I wouldn't compare them to Walmart bikes. I've purchased 3 and own 2 (the other was gift). They're an excellent value for the money. People seem to get upset with Bikesdirect for a variety of reasons and start bashing their product even though they've never tried it.


Frame Handmade Full Dura Forte Chromoly, Precision TIG welded with Rack and Fender brazeons
Fork Full Dura Forte Chromoly Unicrown
Derailleurs Shimano sora
Shifters Shimano sora STI
Brakes Shimano sora
Hubs Alloy with 8 speed cassette
Rims 700 x 20 Alloy 36H
Crank Cyclone Alloy Triple 52/42/30T
Saddle Velo racing with Kevelar side panels
Seatpost Alloy micro-adjust
Pedals Alloy quill with toeclips and straps
Tires Maxxis 700 x 25 C
Colors Jett Black Gloss
Sizes 50 cm, 53 cm, 56 cm, 59 cm, 62 cm
Compare this bike at $899.95, but bikesdirect.com offers
it for only $349.95 including free UPS delivery to your door.

This bike comes 90% assembled. 

How this is good value eludes me. There isn't any way in hell that this retails at $900. That's $100+ more than a Trek 1000 which has the same running gear on an alloy frame and carbon fork. Also as I said earlier a 2005 model could be picked up for considerably less. Not to mention the $50? a LBS will charge to set it up safely (I've yet to see a MO bike set up properly ever). The bike they are talking about is worth $500 retail max. They are misrepresenting the saving to lure unsuspecting customers. Not honest in my book, unethical, possibly borderline illegal.


----------



## ravenmore

ultimobici said:


> The bike they are talking about is worth $500 retail max. They are misrepresenting the saving to lure unsuspecting customers. Not honest in my book, unethical, possibly borderline illegal.




C'mon - that's a bit over the top and with the "borderline illegal" comment you're going a bit far yourself IMO. What this particular bike is worth is a matter of opinion. FWIW, I actually agree with you in this particular instance about this bike vs. a Trek. However, when you look at the other higher level models such as the Le Champ SL the Bikesdirect bikes are a heck of a value.


----------



## covenant

alienator said:


> And exactly how many posts do you expect newbies to have? Is there something that is earned w/ more posts? Non-idiomatic English? Well, I hate to tell ya, some of the 'merican folks round these parts have real issues typing their thoughts in English.
> 
> Do you have anything else other than irrational suspicions?
> 
> You know you only have 112 posts, so it's not like you're the Ol' Man around here.


One sure way is too look at the posting habits of a suspected shill. Wait a month and look them up and see if there's any posting activity. Many haven't posted much except their initial bikesdirect thread. rreas, oicdn, maconward and littledog for example


----------



## Red Sox Junkie

Ravenmore, going back and fourth with the Moto haters is futile. While I agree that the shill tactic is tired and annoying, most of these guys posting trash abou Moto bikes have an unnatural (and unhealthy) hatred for the product, a product I'm sure they have no experience with. These guys would ostracize you if you rolled up to their group while on a ride and they know nothing about you or your riding abilities. But you could be a crap cyclist on an expensive bike and get instant acceptance.


----------



## vis8892

Why are the bashers comparing the suggested retail price? Most retailers over state MSRP when having a sale to make it look like a better deal. All I look at is the bottom line. As for the Le Champion that's on sale for $1095, is it really that good of a deal? You can piece together an Ultegra group for about $650-$750. The Protocols go for about $300 on ebay. The frame and fork would probably fetch about $150 on ebay. All the rest is probably worth about $100. I was thinking of buying one just for the Ultegra and the wheels, but decided not to when I added up the parts.

Bikesdirect.com say that they have this sale for roadbikereview every month and that it started last November. What were the last 2 sales?


----------



## ravenmore

Red Sox Junkie said:


> Ravenmore, going back and fourth with the Moto haters is futile. While I agree that the shill tactic is tired and annoying, most of these guys posting trash abou Moto bikes have an unnatural (and unhealthy) hatred for the product, a product I'm sure they have no experience with. These guys would ostracize you if you rolled up to their group while on a ride and they know nothing about you or your riding abilities. But you could be a crap cyclist on an expensive bike and get instant acceptance.


No doubt - I find it interesting how much passion the new Motobecane's are illiciting, be it love or hate. You don't see these debates over say, Treks, Scotts, or Felts, do you?


----------



## alienator

covenant said:


> One sure way is too look at the posting habits of a suspected shill. Wait a month and look them up and see if there's any posting activity. Many haven't posted much except their initial bikesdirect thread. rreas, oicdn, maconward and littledog for example



Maybe they're shills, or maybe they just got put off by the attitude, here. Again, no one here knows anything but conjecture re: any of these posts. And I suspect more than a few people derive some feeling of superiority re; this issue and these bikes when they scream "shill" or whatever.

Objectivity has not gone out the window because it's never been in this room.


----------



## ravenmore

vis8892 said:


> Why are the bashers comparing the suggested retail price? Most retailers over state MSRP when having a sale to make it look like a better deal. All I look at is the bottom line. As for the Le Champion that's on sale for $1095, is it really that good of a deal? You can piece together an Ultegra group for about $650-$750. The Protocols go for about $300 on ebay. The frame and fork would probably fetch about $150 on ebay. All the rest is probably worth about $100. I was thinking of buying one just for the Ultegra and the wheels, but decided not to when I added up the parts.
> 
> Bikesdirect.com say that they have this sale for roadbikereview every month and that it started last November. What were the last 2 sales?


Actually I don't think that parts list is entirely accurate. For one thing, the current Le Champ comes with American Classic 420's. Another point is that the Moto Le Champ is a close, close relation to the Fuji Team SL, which DOES in fact sell for over $2k most of the time. 3rd - show me the prices for complete sub-16 pound Ultegra bikes, and I think you'll see that the Moto Le Champs are a pretty good deal.


----------



## Dave Hickey

ravenmore said:


> No doubt - I find it interesting how much passion the new Motobecane's are illiciting, be it love or hate. You don't see these debates over say, Treks, Scotts, or Felts, do you?


People can't seperate their dislike of Moto's and bikesdirect. BD and it's retail arm CycleSpectrum have exclusive use the brand. I'm not a fan of the BD tactics or marketing but I have nothing against the bikes....

Treks, Scotts and Felts can be bought at a variety of outlets...

This whole Bikesdirect love/hate is not exclusive to RBR. Most of the other cycling forums have similar threads. The schills/non shcills comment pop up all over


----------



## covenant

ravenmore said:


> No doubt - I find it interesting how much passion the new Motobecane's are illiciting, be it love or hate.


I definitely *love* the carbon models....Immortal Force :drool:

the sneaky marketing techniques on the other hand....


----------



## ravenmore

Dave Hickey said:


> People can't seperate their dislike of Moto's and bikesdirect. BD and it's retail arm CycleSpectrum have exclusive use the brand. I'm not a fan of the BD tactics or marketing but I have nothing against the bikes....
> 
> Treks, Scotts and Felts can be bought at a variety of outlets...
> 
> This whole Bikesdirect love/hate is not exclusive to RBR. Most of the other cycling forums have similar threads. The schills/non shcills comment pop up all over


Dave - I think you've partially hit the nail on the head. You make a very good point about BD and Cyclespectrum being the exclusive sellers of Motobecane (well, except for Discovery Cycles here in Austin. Thats an exception I think). A lot of the distaste comes from the business practices of BD. 

However, a lot of folks seem ticked about the prices also. Not sure why - if its driven by competitors or something. But a lot of people argue there are problems/defects with the bikes because they're a. cheap(in price), or b. mail order. Alanbikehouston comes to mind here. A lot of people seem to scoff at the bikes because of their low price. Its almost kind of ...... snobby.

Alienator - I was actually run off from another forum because I was accused of being a BD shill. I THINK it was cycling.com. Followed a link over there when all the stuff went down with Sydney. One of the first threads I came across was a BD thread - oh boy I caught some heat. I even posted pics of my bike and links back here to some of my threads I was involved in, but some people didn't buy it. I didn't care for the forum much anyway after reading a few threads and just haven't been back. The only bike forums I use now are this one and bikeforums.net. I have to admit they get a lot of shill accusations over there too. Although to be honest, I have seen a post here and there that really was pretty dubious. 

Covenant - yeah - that Immortal Force is sweet. Not sure if I can swing the $1800. I'm looking at another Le Champ though for racing this spring/summer.


----------



## ravenmore

I have to add, when talking about the "business practices of BD", however, that they've always been on the up and up with me. They've answered every email and phone call pretty darn quick. I got my bikes as advertised, usually within 2 DAYS without paying for shipping. They were proactive in notifying me about a parts recall. From what I've seen, except for the shilling accusations, their business practices have been pretty good. Thats just what I've personally experienced in my transactions with them. Can't speak for anyone else.

I pointed someone at BD to a thread here once, and the BD rep sounded angry that it was implied they weren't serving their customers well. The let me know exactly what they had done in the situation. It communicated to me that person, at least, took a little pride in what they were doing and the company they worked for.

*whew* I think my next bike's gonna be a Giant so I can take a breather from all this.....


----------



## ultimobici

*I'm not slating Motobecane Bikes*

But what I find irritating about the two bikes the OP asked about, was that one in particular was being touted as an absolute bargain. Bikes Direct claim that the bike retails for $900 when it plainly doesn't. It's built from No-Name Cromoly tubing, which I presume, due to the lack of any mention of butting is plain gauge. The Trek 1200 at $910 is butted alloy with a carbon fork and Tiagra 9. 
If I was a newcomer to the sport, with no experience of cycling, I'd be keen to save a packet and snag myself a better bike than I expected. Trouble is that it's highly unlikely that it would ride as well as the equivalent Trek, Specialized or Giant. 
The more expensive Motobecanes seem to be a different proposition, I would be very tempted as you could use it to get a group at a better price and upgrade to a better frame later. But the way that the entry level bike is presented is not fair in my eyes. 
In the UK, if you present a product with an inflated original price, Trading Standards (Local Gov. Consumer Protection) would take a dim view, possibly forcing you to amend the price to a more realistic level.
I have no problem with someone getting the best deal they can, but I wonder how many people try this beautiful sport out and are put off by sub standard kit that they have been led to believe is better than it is.
The OP wasn't asking about the "Fuji" Motobecanes at $1000+, he was enquiring about the sub-$400 bikes!


----------



## golzy

I think the comedy in this whole thing is that prior to this thread I had never been to the BD website... but I'm intrigued by all of this shill talk and couldn't resist! Their "shady" marketing tactics sure got to take a look...


----------



## Dave Hickey

golzy said:


> I think the comedy in this whole thing is that prior to this thread I had never been to the BD website... but I'm intrigued by all of this shill talk and couldn't resist! Their "shady" marketing tactics sure got to take a look...


Exactly...Taken from the Hollywood handbook. Even bad news gets the name out in front of the public...


----------



## ravenmore

ultimobici said:


> But what I find irritating about the two bikes the OP asked about, was that one in particular was being touted as an absolute bargain. Bikes Direct claim that the bike retails for $900 when it plainly doesn't. It's built from No-Name Cromoly tubing, which I presume, due to the lack of any mention of butting is plain gauge. The Trek 1200 at $910 is butted alloy with a carbon fork and Tiagra 9.
> If I was a newcomer to the sport, with no experience of cycling, I'd be keen to save a packet and snag myself a better bike than I expected. Trouble is that it's highly unlikely that it would ride as well as the equivalent Trek, Specialized or Giant.
> The more expensive Motobecanes seem to be a different proposition, I would be very tempted as you could use it to get a group at a better price and upgrade to a better frame later. But the way that the entry level bike is presented is not fair in my eyes.
> In the UK, if you present a product with an inflated original price, Trading Standards (Local Gov. Consumer Protection) would take a dim view, possibly forcing you to amend the price to a more realistic level.
> I have no problem with someone getting the best deal they can, but I wonder how many people try this beautiful sport out and are put off by sub standard kit that they have been led to believe is better than it is.
> The OP wasn't asking about the "Fuji" Motobecanes at $1000+, he was enquiring about the sub-$400 bikes!


Yeah, welcome to the wonderfull world of MSRP. There's a lot of leeway about what they can say msrp is. I haven't spent a lot of time looking at Sora bikes, so to be honest I don't know what they should go for. Bikesdirect usually takes other peoples frames and re-badges them though, so there is a good chance these are name brand frames and may be pretty good. Again, I haven't seen them so I don't know for sure, but I know that's how they operate on several other models. They may be modeling the MSRP after what someone else charges for a similarly spec'd bike.

Some people also prefer a steel fork, believe it or not, to a carbon one. That's just one example of the component list being open to interpretation. Also, in my experience, the 'no-name' parts on their products may not be much to look at, but they tend to be pretty functional. Tektro brakes, for example. Not pretty but work well and are resonably light.

BTW, I own one of their sub $400 steel bikes. I've upgraded it - mainly to suit my own taste not because of any glaring deficiency:


----------



## alienator

ravenmore said:


>


Nice looking scoot. What wheels are those?


----------



## fmw

My Motobecane Mirage only cost me $210 and it weighs 27 lbs. that's a pretty good deal if you buy your bikes by weight.


----------



## ravenmore

FMW - any luck with the auction on it?

Alienator - Thanks, they're Velocity Deep V's with IRO hubs and straight gauge wheelsmith spokes. Not the lightest thing in the world but very strong. I recently found out the build wasn't so hot(I think they were machine built - spoke tension was very low and uneven) so I need to completely de-tension the wheels and then bring 'em back up. I just haven't found the time to do it. I really enjoy riding this cheap Moto and have taken it on some flat club rides. The funny thing is that single speeds are so much more efficient that its easy to push the pace up to about 30 mph - at which point the high cadence becomes the issue. Sure as heck helps you work on your spin though!


----------



## the_dude

can we make a forum pact? suspected shill threads go completely unanswered? that'd be sweet. these things are getting old, and accomplishing only what BD wants it to, publicity. it's just as sir hickey noted, there's no such thing as bad publicity. no comments, and this thread would already be buried on another page by now.

the_dude


----------



## matanza

+1.....


----------



## alienator

the_dude said:


> can we make a forum pact? suspected shill threads go completely unanswered? that'd be sweet. these things are getting old, and accomplishing only what BD wants it to, publicity. it's just as sir hickey noted, there's no such thing as bad publicity. no comments, and this thread would already be buried on another page by now.
> 
> the_dude


And by what criteria and by whom will the decision be made that someone is not a newbie with a valid question but is instead one of these nefarious shills that no one can seem to pin down?

Maybe we can use that water test that they used for witches in Salem. That seemed to work out well.


----------



## matanza

lurk and smirk...


----------



## bwana

Maybe if their first (or nth) post isn't about BD


----------



## the_dude

bwana said:


> Maybe if their first (or nth) post isn't about BD


that's probably fool-proof. 

alienator - what criteria is being used to judge possible shills now? none. any and all posts regarding BD turn at once into poo-slinging fests. enough. how is this any better than ignoring all BD threads? if the OP doesn't get a response, he/she will do what e-consumers do millions of times each day, and decide on their own whether they want to buy the product sight unseen. simple, no?

if all else fails, the water test sounds like a great idea.

the_dude


----------



## alienator

bwana said:


> Maybe if their first (or nth) post isn't about BD


What if their first post is about Schwinn, Trek, Parlee, Crumpton, Moots, Spin, Time, Look, Scott, Bianchi, Colnago, Merckx.....

Oh, wait: I get it.....maybe roadies are snotty turds. Clearly the way the decision is to be made here is with the ol' holier than thou tool, by the holier than thou tools that prejudge everyone's post.

Good, then. What a fun, open minded bun.....no, wait check that.


----------



## alienator

the_dude said:


> that's probably fool-proof.
> 
> alienator - what criteria is being used to judge possible shills now? none. any and all posts regarding BD turn at once into poo-slinging fests. enough. how is this any better than ignoring all BD threads? if the OP doesn't get a response, he/she will do what e-consumers do millions of times each day, and decide on their own whether they want to buy the product sight unseen. simple, no?
> 
> if all else fails, the water test sounds like a great idea.
> 
> the_dude


Wow. What powers of insight you must have to be able to peer into your CRT and know what is in the mind of a given poster. You're not Kreskin are you?

Or do you actually use a thought process? If you did, you'd realize how stupid your idea is and how snotty and uptight it makes cyclists look.


----------



## ravenmore

maybe another way to approach it is to not get too bent out of shape about it - be it shills or not. If you don't want to be a part of it, don't look at the thread..... Life's too short to get ticked off at the little things.....


----------



## geraldatwork

I got this bike from bikesdirect and other than needing to replace the wheels, as you can see, I am very happy with it. I'm also very happy with my main bike a Windsor Kennet I also got from them.


----------



## alienator

geraldatwork said:


> I got this bike from bikesdirect and other than needing to replace the wheels, as you can see, I am very happy with it. I'm also very happy with my main bike a Windsor Kennet I also got from them.


Nice cross bike. Works on the road and off, as well as for cross dressers, what with the convenient top tube geometry.


----------



## alienator

ravenmore said:


> maybe another way to approach it is to not get too bent out of shape about it - be it shills or not. If you don't want to be a part of it, don't look at the thread..... Life's too short to get ticked off at the little things.....


This is the correct answer and has been all along. Things just go all pear shaped when people who think they know things that they really don't start chimin' in.


----------



## the_dude

alienator said:


> Wow. What powers of insight you must have to be able to peer into your CRT and know what is in the mind of a given poster. You're not Kreskin are you?
> 
> Or do you actually use a thought process? If you did, you'd realize how stupid your idea is and how snotty and uptight it makes cyclists look.



i'm not sure what thought process you're using either. my post was aimed at those who jump down these guys' throats. it's annoying. if they think the OP a shill, let it be. it will be gone more quickly that way. you attacking me isn't helping anything. i'm not sure how you got this impression that i was being an elitist snob, but the contrary is true. i believe once in a while the anti-shill folks either a) scare a legitimate poster away by falsely labeling him/her a shill. or b) scare potential members away by coming off as elitist pr!cks. 

short version of above rambling: we're on the same side. lighten up.

the_dude


----------



## alienator

the_dude said:


> i'm not sure what thought process you're using either. my post was aimed at those who jump down these guys' throats. it's annoying. if they think the OP a shill, let it be. it will be gone more quickly that way. you attacking me isn't helping anything. i'm not sure how you got this impression that i was being an elitist snob, but the contrary is true. i believe once in a while the anti-shill folks either a) scare a legitimate poster away by falsely labeling him/her a shill. or b) scare potential members away by coming off as elitist pr!cks.
> 
> short version of above rambling: we're on the same side. lighten up.
> 
> the_dude


Message received. Sorry for the bungled reception. And you're right.


----------



## ctguy1955

*The internet and buying a bike. Sticker Shock at a bike store.*



ravenmore said:


> Actually I don't think that parts list is entirely accurate. For one thing, the current Le Champ comes with American Classic 420's. Another point is that the Moto Le Champ is a close, close relation to the Fuji Team SL, which DOES in fact sell for over $2k most of the time. 3rd - show me the prices for complete sub-16 pound Ultegra bikes, and I think you'll see that the Moto Le Champs are a pretty good deal.


I am a 58 year old electrician who has gained some weight from being out of work and drinking a few too many beers while on the net.
I purchased a 1984 Panasonic Sport 1000 and put a odometer on it 
the very first day. My 32 year old bike has 240 miles on it. I spent 
18 bucks and bought a extender for my handle bars and raised them up about 4 inches, and I liked it, but now I have a problem where Ive shrunk over the years and the bike does not fit me. The Standover
is 34 3/4" and I wear 32 inch pants. The gear or brake line that runs along the top of the rail that has these clips is right where I land when I come off the seat, and its not much fun. I looked at a Schwinn Prelude for 237, but they only come in 55cm. I went to 
the local bike shop and the least expensive bike they have is 550 on 
sale. They said I needed a 56cm bike. They also said if I had to go up 
to 57 and not down to 55. Im 6'2" but my legs are short and my upper torso is long, with a long neck. All of the different measurements I see on the net are driving me nuts. Then I hear that my 30 pd steel bike that glides really nice and shifts and is perfect for me in every way ( but the bar to high up ) will give a better ride then 
the newer alum frame bikes that will pass the vibration on to my body.
Then I read counter things about that. I really dont want to spend a lot of money as I dont know how long I will ride, but in 32 years I only put on 240 miles. I have bike paths that are fairly level, and the local bike store suggested I just find another 56cm frame to put my bike parts on ( as they are like new ) and they would charge 100 bucks to switch everything over. I am not seeing any cheap bike frames on ebay or craigslist. The new shifters in the brake handles and other features are very nice. I do not like to lean over and use the bottom of the bars, but prefer to sit up straight and keep my hands near the 
center of the handlebars.

I can sell my bike on craigslist for 150 so the cost of the motobecane mirage for 450 shipped isnt so bad. I dont know anything about 4010 vs any other number of the steel (alum) and my Panasonic has low end shimano front and back and shifts really nice.

I would appreciate any of your thoughts as to switch frames or 
buy old used or this new mirage for 450 or what.

Thank you very much, I feel so lost as I dont want to spend big bucks and it seems like if you dont spend big bucks, you are looked 
down on. Im not racing or touring, Im just looking to lose a few pounds and get to look at some pretty chicks while Im riding around.



https://i968.photobucket.com/albums/ae168/CTguy1955/sport1000_zpse91bcbc4.jpg

Thank You for your help. 
Mike

Road Bikes - 2013 Motobecane Mirage Sport
The BLUE one is what I like.

PS what size???? Im 6'2" and bike shop said get 56cm but my 
panasonic is a 27" which is 68.58 and the bar is only 2 inches high
and 56cm is 22" 5 inches different when Im only needing the bar 
dropped about 2 inches ???????? ( thanks this is so important )


----------

