# A redsigned Roubaix or Venge perhaps?



## Rashadabd (Sep 17, 2011)

It sounds like Specialized have a new bike up their sleeve that will be released this summer:

Interview: Specialized creative specialist Chris D?Aluisio | Road Bike News, Reviews, and Photos


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## TricrossRich (Mar 26, 2014)

I definitely think a new Venge is coming... and expect to see Sagan and Cav on it for the TDF. The most obvious sign was that the pricing on the Venge came down this year... I think so that Specialized could keep them moving in the final year before the new model is released. 

I've also heard that we can expect to see the S-Works team color bikes released in the Tarmac.... but the Venge was not mentioned.


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## thumper8888 (Apr 7, 2009)

Yeah, the one this summer is almost certainly the Venge, and it would be shocking if they didn't get Cavendish on it, even a prototype, in time for TDF. 
And unless they totally screw it up, I'm all in for an S-works one.
If they can't at least get close to S5 aero numbers tho, i'm shifting over to Cervelo, not going to be sucked in by marketing.
The more interesting question, though probably not because its something i'll be buying, is what he's talking about for summer of 2016… its just not time for a Roubaix update quite yet and certainly not a tarmac… maybe TT? dunno.
He's an interesting and quirky thinker, kind of fun to watch his moves over the years.


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## Rashadabd (Sep 17, 2011)

thumper8888 said:


> Yeah, the one this summer is almost certainly the Venge, and it would be shocking if they didn't get Cavendish on it, even a prototype, in time for TDF.
> And unless they totally screw it up, I'm all in for an S-works one.
> If they can't at least get close to S5 aero numbers tho, i'm shifting over to Cervelo, not going to be sucked in by marketing.
> The more interesting question, though probably not because its something i'll be buying, is what he's talking about for summer of 2016… its just not time for a Roubaix update quite yet and certainly not a tarmac… maybe TT? dunno.
> He's an interesting and quirky thinker, kind of fun to watch his moves over the years.


I agree and could definitely see a new Venge being released very soon. My expectation is that it is going to be pretty cool as well (probably something along the lines of the Dogma F8, but with a Specialized look). I don't know that wind tunnel numbers will be the primary focus though, as Specialized tends to focus more on overall race worthiness instead of test lab numbers (like Pinarello). They seem to prefer victories on the road over just to being able to say we are the fastest in the tunnel. If you are concerned with aero numbers, you might want to consider the Fuji Transonic as well: 2015 Fuji Transonic Aero Road Bike Unveiled, Blends Feedback from Wind Tunnel, Riders & Mechanics . I also agree that they will probably market the heck out of it with Cav and Sagan.

I also wouldn't rule out a new Roubaix being released soon after the Venge or vice versa, however. I feel like the Roubiax is a somewhat simple design for Specialized once they release a new Tarmac. The Roubaix typically just takes the most recent Tarmac and adjusts it for endurance riding. I could see it borrowing a couple of things from the Diverge as well and I personally wonder whether it is worth having both bikes in the lineup. It might be better to just expand the Diverge line with some racier models and just do away with the Roubiax, but I am sure they have their reasons. There's definitely a lot of overlap there though despite what they say here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HPh-bEminAk


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## thumper8888 (Apr 7, 2009)

I agree that they would lean a bit more toward proper handling and away from making the kind of the mistake that Cervelo made with the 1st gen S5… which was by all accounts an utter dog, a real handful to get around a hard corner in a smooth arc.
And the current Venge handles pretty well. More than pretty well. And is pleasingly stiff torsionally. But if they are going to build an aero bike, particularly after building a wind tunnel and promoting it with much hoopla, they have to do significantly better on the aero numbers.
Otherwise, why bother?
In short, yes, I expect it to handle well and be stiff, but I also expect it to be close to the front of the pack, just a bit off the new S5, in numbers.
The new S5, BTW, apparently handles pretty well and trims a bunch of drag, albeit in part thanks to that odd bar. If Cervelo can do that without their own wind tunnel, and without Specialized's huge R&D budget, and without specialized's imagination and creativity, well, the big red S can surely step up and match them, right?
the smart money says D'Alusio's up to the challenge. He even sounds a bit like he's got a particularly interesting rabbit to pull out of the hat this time.


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## Rashadabd (Sep 17, 2011)

thumper8888 said:


> I agree that they would lean a bit more toward proper handling and away from making the kind of the mistake that Cervelo made with the 1st gen S5… which was by all accounts an utter dog, a real handful to get around a hard corner in a smooth arc.
> And the current Venge handles pretty well. More than pretty well. And is pleasingly stiff torsionally. But if they are going to build an aero bike, particularly after building a wind tunnel and promoting it with much hoopla, they have to do significantly better on the aero numbers.
> Otherwise, why bother?
> In short, yes, I expect it to handle well and be stiff, but I also expect it to be close to the front of the pack, just a bit off the new S5, in numbers.
> ...


I guess the only thing I will say is that I often feel like Cervelo's focus is the numbers while I feel like Specialized tends to focus on the complete bike and performance on the road. That was their whole marketing ploy with the Venge from the beginning ("more bike than aero"- Specialized Bicycle Components). We'll see, but I think they will stay true to that design philosophy, but improve the numbers some, meaning they will not compromise performance to be right up there with the S5 in term of numbers if it doesn't produce a world class race bike in their minds. I think Giant and Pinarello operate with a similar philosophy. That method of designing seems to produce a better final product for the consumer if you ask me (lighter, better handling, etc.) because nobody rides in a wind tunnel.

Just like they didn't chase after the super lightweight bike craze in redesigning the new Tarmac, I don't see them following the super aero trend in designing the new Venge. It's just not their way.


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## thumper8888 (Apr 7, 2009)

Rashadabd said:


> I guess the only thing I will say is that I often feel like Cervelo's focus is the numbers while I feel like Specialized tends to focus on the complete bike and performance on the road. That was their whole marketing ploy with the Venge from the beginning ("more bike than aero"- Specialized Bicycle Components). We'll see, but I think they will stay true to that design philosophy, but improve the numbers some, meaning they will not compromise performance to be right up there with the S5 in term of numbers if it doesn't produce a world class race bike in their minds. I think Giant and Pinarello operate with a similar philosophy. That method of designing seems to produce a better final product for the consumer if you ask me (lighter, better handling, etc.) because nobody rides in a wind tunnel.
> 
> Just like they didn't chase after the super lightweight bike craze in redesigning the new Tarmac, I don't see them following the super aero trend in designing the new Venge. It's just not their way.


I can't disagree with a single word of this, it's all true. But of course you could be describing a Tarmac, in some sense. I think all I'm saying is that the thing needs to be truly aero, while of course up to Specialized standards for stiffness and handling, and not just 40 percent of what it should be in the tunnel and 60 percent marketing.
And you're spot on about Cervelo. I've had two and they're mainly fine, but often kind of soulless. It feels like the engineers have too much control. Sometimes that works for them, sometimes it doesn't. And it makes their aesthetics hit or miss.
Great bikes don't have to look like machines. Venge remains a testament to that, still a gorgeous design, fairly aero, really stiff, really handles well.


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## Rashadabd (Sep 17, 2011)

thumper8888 said:


> I can't disagree with a single word of this, it's all true. But of course you could be describing a Tarmac, in some sense. I think all I'm saying is that the thing needs to be truly aero, while of course up to Specialized standards for stiffness and handling, and not just 40 percent of what it should be in the tunnel and 60 percent marketing.
> And you're spot on about Cervelo. I've had two and they're mainly fine, but often kind of soulless. It feels like the engineers have too much control. Sometimes that works for them, sometimes it doesn't. And it makes their aesthetics hit or miss.
> Great bikes don't have to look like machines. Venge remains a testament to that, still a gorgeous design, fairly aero, really stiff, really handles well.


Agreed.


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## willembad (Jun 26, 2013)

New Venge guaranteed. Anyone have pictures yet?


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## thumper8888 (Apr 7, 2009)

willembad said:


> New Venge guaranteed. Anyone have pictures yet?


Nothing has popped up. I have it on Google alert…
I'm getting what one dealer thinks of as vague semi-confirmation via their network of reps, but really nothing solid.
It's surely certain though. A bigger question than if, is "when." You'd think the earliest plausible opportunity is under Cav at San Remo race. The bike has a history there, after all. But as much as they have been dragging feet on this thing, I can't imagine that it will pop early. Prob more like TDF.


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## willembad (Jun 26, 2013)

Soon! https://www.facebook.com/tinkoffspo...1540094614638/651581991610443/?type=1&theater


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## thumper8888 (Apr 7, 2009)

willembad said:


> Soon! https://www.facebook.com/tinkoffspo...1540094614638/651581991610443/?type=1&theater


I think not… My guess is just a custom paint scheme for a current-design Venge for Sagan.
In part because they want to make a big deal about putting him on a Venge.
The tube shape in the photo you link to looks like a current down tube. And there is obvious evidence of a custom paint job… which pretty much every rider now seems to get.


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## Rashadabd (Sep 17, 2011)

thumper8888 said:


> I think not… My guess is just a custom paint scheme for a current-design Venge for Sagan.
> In part because they want to make a big deal about putting him on a Venge.
> The tube shape in the photo you link to looks like a current down tube. And there is obvious evidence of a custom paint job… which pretty much every rider now seems to get.


I agree and logged on to type the same thing. There's no way Specialized gives Tinkoff Saxo an exclusive to launch a new product like a redesigned bike. Look at all of the effort they put into marketing and revealing the new Tarmac. They also typically use more than one/all three of their sponsored teams when marketing a new bike (though they might be rethinking that Astana relationship right now).


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## benny and the jets (Jun 4, 2007)

Exactly right, I work in a Specialized dealer in London and a couple of weeks back they (Specialized UK) said we would be getting a Specialized Edition Sagan Venge colourway in the next couple of months. This looks like it


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## nismo73 (Jul 29, 2009)

Is this the new one, or just a paint job for Sagan?


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## knukkeltje (May 1, 2014)




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## MMsRepBike (Apr 1, 2014)

My guess is the Roubaix is first. That was my thought when I heard that what's his name left the C to go to the S. 

On a side note, I think that the paint job on that is quite nice. Usually I see Specialized as pretty bland, especially the venge, this is probably my favorite one they've made. I like the subtle details.


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## thumper8888 (Apr 7, 2009)

MMsRepBike said:


> My guess is the Roubaix is first. That was my thought when I heard that what's his name left the C to go to the S.
> 
> On a side note, I think that the paint job on that is quite nice. Usually I see Specialized as pretty bland, especially the venge, this is probably my favorite one they've made. I like the subtle details.


I don't see how it could be the Roubaix.
They popped the current Venge waaaay back at exactly this time of year in 2011, the Tarmac Sl4 a couple months later, then the next year unveiled the Roubaix SL4.
So, each of the other models have been replaced since the Venge was unveiled, the Tarmac on a full year shorter cycle. And the Roubaix SL4 is still a really current item in many ways. Not only do its competitors not have a lead on it like some of the Venge competition (S5 has a full year jump, F8 is pretty up to date, Aeroad etc) , but the Roubaix and Tarmac are both set up with disc brakes.
That's a vague clue I think. The next Venge will at least have that as an option, it's def something Specialized is moving pretty much all its lines toward, like it or not.
Just my two cents.
The only argument I can think of in favor of the Roubaix being first out of the gate vs. new Venge is that its sales volume is probably much higher than the Venge, so it might be more of a priority. But right now, it feels like a year early for that, and we feel like a year late on the Venge.
I'm thinking new Venge this year, new Roubaix next, then Tarmac, slotting Shiv in there somewhere. 

The Sagan paint job is pretty appealing. Hope they transfer it to the new one as an option.


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## taodemon (Mar 17, 2014)

It looked promising from the downtube picture but after seeing the whole bike I think it looks too much like camoflauge which isn't a look I like for bikes. Maybe I just need to see a better picture if it.


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## knukkeltje (May 1, 2014)

Large picture here


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## Rashadabd (Sep 17, 2011)

knukkeltje said:


> Large picture here


I am not usually a huge fan of camo, but I kind of like it. It's different. If we are talking sheer beauty, my two favorite Specialized paint jobs (and maybe my favorites on any bike) are the S-Build Tarmac Nibali Celebration and the Red and Yellow S-Works Tarmac (that thing is amazing looking in person). 

View attachment 304606


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## robt57 (Jul 23, 2011)

LIKE.

Me, I'd put some grey/white/yellow splash bar tape on it...


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## taodemon (Mar 17, 2014)

My favorite paint jobs would probably be the 2012 dura ace sworks venge and this years Astana Tarmac. The Boonen venges are pretty cool too as well as the green Cav venge.

The recent flow shiv is a thing of beauty too even though I'm not big on TT bikes.


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## thumper8888 (Apr 7, 2009)

taodemon said:


> My favorite paint jobs would probably be the 2012 dura ace sworks venge and this years Astana Tarmac. The Boonen venges are pretty cool too as well as the green Cav venge.
> 
> The recent flow shiv is a thing of beauty too even though I'm not big on TT bikes.


The original McLaren Venge with the dark S-Works lettering was for me the sharpest. The second batch they made had more silver in the letters and I actually had one of those, thought it wasn't as snazzy... but hardly ugly.

The orange one is also first-rate as is the lunch ride scheme.


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## carbonLORD (Aug 2, 2004)

My rep says the Roubaix will likely have the same rider-first update like the Tarmac has before they release a new Venge. Sorry fellas. Give it some time. They do have a wind tunnel at their disposal after all.


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## robt57 (Jul 23, 2011)

carbonLORD said:


> My rep says the Roubaix will likely have the same rider-first update like the Tarmac has before they release a new Venge. Sorry fellas. Give it some time. They do have a wind tunnel at their disposal after all.



They'd better back off the Roubaix stoutness a little.

It used to say comfort on the Roubaix pages at Spesh site, now it just says "Smoother is faster".

IMO, and yea I own a SL4 Roubaix. Which is going out the door after my Custom Strong gets here....


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## thumper8888 (Apr 7, 2009)

"Give it some time. They do have a wind tunnel at their disposal after all."

I have given it some time. Hoped for one last year, on their normal product cycle. Didn't happen. Figured surely this year. So it sounds like people are starting to figure next year? Or maybe the year after? Who knows, right?
Building your own wind tunnel should shorten product cycles, not lengthen them.
If they do pop out a Roubaix only, that would confirm that the Venge is their neglected stepchild. A five-year gap between redesigns vs. three for the Roubaix and three for the Tarmac.
I can see why that might make sense from a marketing standpoint given the difference in the sales volume between the Venge and Roubaix. And companies have to worry about the bottom line. I get it.
But for the bulk of riders -- meaning those on 54's and 56's -- the update of the Tarmac and a similar set of changes to the Roubaix would simply be incremental at best.
So. They've got a wind tunnel. Great. Where are the returns on that investment? Maybe its too early for legit returns, but what I see so far is videos on the aerodynamics of leg hair, ponytails, loose clothes and traditional steel frames. 
Good marketing for the company, fun to watch, interesting. But those videos are not a new bike for me and others to buy.
If they pop out a Roubaix this summer instead of a Venge some of their competitors may be able to get TWO generations ahead in aero frames. Over the company with the wind tunnel.
Which again, in theory at least, should SHORTEN product cycles for the products most focussed on aerodynamics, not lengthen them.
And the recent update to the Tarmac, and this rumored one for the Roubaix… let's be honest. I know these changes took huge work for the company, more than a typical update. And for riders on 49s and 52's, and 58s and 60s etc, OK, I guess it was a welcome change. But the real world effect for most riders is modest.
I mean, that was the whole point. The Tarmac was already just right for the sizes that sold the most.
Maybe the Roubaix will incorporate more of the approach to ride/handling data that they have worked out with the help of McLaren and it will be game changing. Maybe. And I know they are working hard on other new bikes. But come July, if I see only a new Roubaix, my thought pattern will be something like this: "Hmmm. Maybe they decided that the Venge line doesn't work because it cannibalizes from the Tarmac sales…. Trek, after all, has good market analysis too, and it isn't building an aero frame. Or maybe Specialized will build a Venge Sl2 one day, and maybe it will be worth the (now nebulous) wait for the (equally nebulous) changes. But at this point I just can't tell if they care about it or they're just going to let it die 
And meanwhile S5 is for sale now, and it works. And that Aeroad looks pretty good, too if I can weasel US delivery somehow. And the Giant is fast, and the BMC is pretty sharp, Felt has a good bike….


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## TricrossRich (Mar 26, 2014)

I think that a Venge is definitely coming this year... probably announced just before TDF, with Sagan on it... if he can win green jersey again, that's instant marketing material. I think its a definite because the Venge prices all came down for 2015.. every model dropped down in price compared to 2014. I think they did this because they know the model is a little old and they want to keep interest up and keep bikes moving until they re-design later this year.


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## thumper8888 (Apr 7, 2009)

Maybe. Sales rep in this area hinted that was the reason the Venge wasn't put into the semi-custom color scheme program.
Another hint would be if supply starts to dry up, but that would be hard to figure out since their supplies of things wax and wane for weeks at a time based on timing of container loads.
But I'm already pondering schemes for getting an Aeroad just in case.


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## carbonLORD (Aug 2, 2004)

We spoke about it again in length today. Hinted on perhaps a more aero Roubaix even. Said it was more likely that the Shiv would get a redesign based on the wind tunnel than the Venge at this time.

Has anyone considered that the Venge is already pretty darn aero and theres not much to improve on?

Of course prices would come down, given that theres no more production and R&D costs to catch up with.

I'm curious as to your assessment that 54's and 56's are the best selling size? Do you run a shop and is that your main consumer base?

I personally sell more 58's than 54's in both the Tarmac, Roubaix, Allez, Venge as well as the CAAD 10 and Super Six, FWIW.

I think they are taking their time and making sure any changes are necessary, cost effective and... effective but I guess time will tell.


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## thumper8888 (Apr 7, 2009)

carbonLORD said:


> We spoke about it again in length today. Hinted on perhaps a more aero Roubaix even. Said it was more likely that the Shiv would get a redesign based on the wind tunnel than the Venge at this time.
> 
> Has anyone considered that the Venge is already pretty darn aero and theres not much to improve on?
> 
> ...



No, I don't run a shop and I will def yield to your experience on the sales of a given size... I was kind of basing that on several things -- 1) that specialized itself noted in all the chatter about the new Tarmac last summer that frames were typically designed around the 56, 2) the average height of an American male and 3) what appears in the most volume on eBay.
But it's not hard data, exactly and based on any previous posting you've made I have zero doubt you know what you're talking about.
Why is it, you think, that the sales are on either side of the 56? seems kind of odd.

And let me ask you a question -- and I hope you don't take this personally -- is there any chance your rep is foxing you to hide what they're planning? The reps generally seem to be under orders to tightly control information on this stuff, since once dealers know, well, the shop staff knows and boom, it's out. Just playing Devil's advocate, your rep is probably being straight up.
And it makes sense that there is not a heck of a lot more that can be trimmed off the Venge. Just like there really wasn't much they could do for the weight, stiffness or handling of the Tarmac, at least in 56cm. It's really the best pure road race bike built even in SL4 trim.
But the Venge is probably, what, 10th on the aero drag list now? Even if we're only taking 10-15 watts, 8th or 10 best is not where Specialized wants to be.
They could make it a tad stiffer in the BB, get a few grams out of it and 5-10 watts of drag out.
If there isn't much aero to be gained, I mean, what is a wind tunnel for? Shivs, yes. Roubaix? not so much.
Surely, with their own wind tunnel, and the machinery at McLaren for handling analysis now, they could improve at least some on the first iteration of an aero design, you'd think.

It would be nice if the Roubaix were more aero, not a negative. But it can't be a huge priority for a bike that is aimed at riders who sit more upright. Returns obviously more modest than for, say, a Tarmac where proportionally the bike is more of the drag.

Anyway, your post makes sense, and my brain says you're right. I just don't want to go buy an S5. Cervelo is just kind of soulless.


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## bearded_juan (Jan 24, 2012)

I think a redesigned Venge is coming out with a new frame and super intergrated/aero cockpit -- probably at the TDF


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## Rashadabd (Sep 17, 2011)

thumper8888 said:


> No, I don't run a shop and I will def yield to your experience on the sales of a given size... I was kind of basing that on several things -- 1) that specialized itself noted in all the chatter about the new Tarmac last summer that frames were typically designed around the 56, 2) the average height of an American male and 3) what appears in the most volume on eBay.
> But it's not hard data, exactly and based on any previous posting you've made I have zero doubt you know what you're talking about.
> Why is it, you think, that the sales are on either side of the 56? seems kind of odd.
> 
> ...


FWIW, you do have a lot of interesting aero options these days outside of just Cervelo and Specialized to be honest. I think it would be a mistake to limit yourself to just these two given the criteria you have identified. You have the Fuji Transonic, Felt AR, Colnago V1-r, BMC TMR, Giant Propel, Dogma F8, Argon 18's new Nitrogen, Lapierre Aircode, Canyon Aeroroad, and countless others. Many have good numbers, etc. I say expand your horizons if Specialized isn't providing what you want when you want it....


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## thumper8888 (Apr 7, 2009)

bearded_juan said:


> I think a redesigned Venge is coming out with a new frame and super intergrated/aero cockpit -- probably at the TDF


the cockpit thing sounds right, whenever they get around to a redesign.
Cervelo and Canyon have gotten over a little in tunnel matchups because of their low-drag but at least mildly impractical bar setups.
It can be done better.
And the integrated part, that's something that has been mostly neglected... particuary for Di2 setups with the junction box stuck up there, and then the various garmin mounts out ahead of the bars, cables all over the place. Canyon has a slick little method of tucking the junction box up into the stem, but that's only part-way there.


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## Rashadabd (Sep 17, 2011)

Rashadabd said:


> FWIW, you do have a lot of interesting aero options these days outside of just Cervelo and Specialized to be honest. I think it would be a mistake to limit yourself to this two given the criteria you have identified. You have the Fuji Transonic, Felt AR, Colnago V1-r, BMC TMR, Giant Propel, Dogma F8, Argon 18's new Nitrogen, Lapierre Aircode, Canyon Aeroroad, and countless others. Many have good numbers, etc. I say expand your horizons if Specialized isn't providing what you want when you want it....


Parlee also has the ESX. I don't mean to belittle or shift the discussion in another direction, but sometimes I think we get locked in on a bike and for one reason or another expend a lot of energy trying to wish it, it's availability, or some feature we want included into existence and that's not necessarily in our best interest (at least I know I have done it far too often). My point being that there is nothing wrong with loving and having your heart set on a Venge. Making that choice, however, does put you on Specialized's timeline and their design plan rather than your own. If you have the patience, I say hang in there and see what they bring to the table because it sounds like that is where your heart is. If not, I say explore some of these other great options you have out here. Either way, I don't think it is fair or particularly helpful to disparage or criticize them for when they plan to release a redesigned bike.


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## thumper8888 (Apr 7, 2009)

Rashadabd said:


> Parlee also has the ESX. I don't mean to belittle or shift the discussion in another direction, but sometimes I think we get locked in on a bike and for one reason or another expend a lot of energy trying to wish it, it's availability, or some feature we want included into existence and that's not necessarily in our best interest (at least I know I have done it far too often). My point being that there is nothing wrong with loving and having your heart set on a Venge. Making that choice, however, does put you on Specialized's timeline and their design plan rather than your own. If you have the patience, I say hang in there and see what they bring to the table because it sounds like that is where your heart is. If not, I say explore some of these other great options you have out here. Either way, I don't think it is fair or particularly helpful to disparage or criticize them for when they plan to release a redesigned bike.


All true, it is easy to get locked in on one design or one company, and I have begun to look at the ins and outs of two others. Will lump through this race season on my stopgap bike then in July or whenever it's clear what the new lineup is, have my choices ready and make then call then.
Onward and upward.


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## Rashadabd (Sep 17, 2011)

thumper8888 said:


> All true, it is easy to get locked in on one design or one company, and I have begun to look at the ins and outs of two others. Will lump through this race season on my stopgap bike then in July or whenever it's clear what the new lineup is, have my choices ready and make then call then.
> Onward and upward.


Amen to that man.


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## carbonLORD (Aug 2, 2004)

The thought had crossed my mind, though we have sold out of Venge models and they are not a super hot seller as it stands so I don't know what the benefit of witholding information would do for my rep when his job is to excite us about future offerings and generate leads. Either he has no clue (which is more than likely) and we are simply speculating or he is not allowed to disclose such information for fear it would leak online and prevent the remaining inventory at Specialized from selling at full retail. Believe me, I agree, and as a Venge owner am eagerly awaiting the SL2 varient as it is getting long in the tooth and the competition is growing.

As for the 56cm, I believe it is used as the reference model given tht it is in the middle of the size spectrum. You have the 52, 54 56, 58 and 60-63 (lumped into the final size bracket depending on what model). No one buys a 48. In fact I can count on one hand the number of 52 Tarmacs I have sold. I do believe the 56 falls in-line with the center of the size spectrum which is why it is referenced as the guide for other sizes that follow.

The Roubaix has certainly become more like a Tarmac with Zerts and has definitely moved away from the tall mans SL3 head tube of yesteryear. Making it ore aero might fall in-line with Specialized Aero is Everything philosophy but I don't see the market asking or needing such an update.

It makes sense that the Venge should be the next model in line. We have Cavendish and Sagan riding them, Specialized has a wind tunel and continue to promote the relationship with McLaren and the Venge is on it's sixth year unchanged with the TDF on the horizon, just in time to showcase the latest and greatest, but I guess we'll have to wait and see.

I'm hoping they don't ruin it, but I like what they've done with the Tarmac, and the Roubaix so confidence is high.


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## thumper8888 (Apr 7, 2009)

carbonLORD said:


> I'm hoping they don't ruin it, but I like what they've done with the Tarmac, and the Roubaix so confidence is high.



They won't ruin it -- if they ever do update it. When was the last time they made a crap bike? That's why I've waited two years past what I wanted to for my next race bike... I have nearly complete confidence in not just their engineering but their aesthetics. But that's long enough for my personal situation and this year I need to make a move. If they're not on my calendar, well, that's my problem.


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## Duke249 (Apr 4, 2002)

thumper8888 said:


> "So. They've got a wind tunnel. Great. Where are the returns on that investment?


While watching downhill skiing on Universal, there was a feature on aerodynamic studies on DH positions. They were using the Specialized wind tunnel. Looks like they're letting others use it for a price. 

As for the current Venge, its an AMAZING frameset. Although it was introduced quite awhile ago, I can't believe that its not as good as the current offerings from the other companies. Yes, it may lose a bit on paper, but it is still VERY fast. I'd much rather be riding it instead of the Giant with the goofy brakes, the BMC with the goofy brakes, the Cervelo S5 that has already been redesigned and was so bad in its first form that even the pro teams went backward to an S3, and the Felt which...well...is a Felt.


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## Chader09 (Jun 10, 2014)

The Venge isn't without it's own problems. The routing of the RD cable is terrible (the kink in the final part of the dropout) and results in inconsistent shifting for many of the bikes I have seen and heard about.


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## carbonLORD (Aug 2, 2004)

Not an issue for Di2 at least.


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## Chader09 (Jun 10, 2014)

I knew someone would mention Di2, and it's great for that since it doesn't matter in the slightest. 

But many people are still running mechanical and the design is a big mistake for those. Specialized has issued several "fixes" that do little to correct the function in the cases I have seen.


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## TricrossRich (Mar 26, 2014)

Chader09 said:


> I knew someone would mention Di2, and it's great for that since it doesn't matter in the slightest.
> 
> But many people are still running mechanical and the design is a big mistake for those. Specialized has issued several "fixes" that do little to correct the function in the cases I have seen.


I'm running DA9000 on my 2015 Venge.... I haven't experienced this issue you're speaking of.


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## Duke249 (Apr 4, 2002)

Been on a Venge with Red for 2 years. Never had any issues with shifting. Never heard of any issues with shifting. There are 5 other guys I ride with on a regular basis riding Venges, and no one has ever had or heard or shifting issues due to cable routing or anything else for that matter.


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## Duke249 (Apr 4, 2002)

just looked on the Specialized tech website and couldn't find anything related to shifting issues with the Venge. Could you provide a link or further info for the Specialized "fixes" you stated? I want to ensure I have optimal shifting performance. 

I also did a google search for "Venge Shifting Problems" and couldn't find any specific discussions related to said cable routing issues where the cable exits by the dropout.


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## Chader09 (Jun 10, 2014)

I don't have links. My info is from feedback by techs at my local shop that fought shifting on several bikes. They contacted Spec directly and were sent a variation of the cable guide that fits in the dropout. 

They tried several different cable/housing/deraileur combos. Most of the issues came with 6800 (stock) and 7900 (custom build). They could get shifting to work well in one direction or section of the cassette, but had issues on the other end.

Two of the customers sold the bikes and got something different due to the inability to resolve the issue. Maybe it's a smaller issue and even user/tech error? But they seemed to get info from Specialized that acknowledge the issue and offered the new part as a resolution.


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## thumper8888 (Apr 7, 2009)

Duke249 said:


> just looked on the Specialized tech website and couldn't find anything related to shifting issues with the Venge. Could you provide a link or further info for the Specialized "fixes" you stated? I want to ensure I have optimal shifting performance.
> 
> I also did a google search for "Venge Shifting Problems" and couldn't find any specific discussions related to said cable routing issues where the cable exits by the dropout.


I had that problem on an S-works Venge. It's real. But it's not really a Venge problem. It was a fairly well-known 7900 problem and I assume the Ultegra of that generation too. But I can testify that 7900 rear shifting didn't work well with 7900 on a Venge, and I'm scarcely the only one.
The only sense that it was a Venge issue was that my setup required a lot of convolutions in the rear cable, some of them pretty tight radii, which make turns in a cable significantly more likely to cause friction. Tight turn inside Zipp vuka sprint bars, turn down into frame, wide turn at BB and the S-turn coming out... I think the tight turns in the bar was the straw that broke the camel spine.
The spring in the rear mech wasn't partic strong, and there was so much friction in the cable that the spring struggled to overcome it. Certain shifts would just take seconds, grinding away. Hard to deal with and dangerous during a race. By myself it was easy enough to overshift and shift back.
This was a really frustrating issue to try to diagnose for someone who prides themselves on doing their own basic wrenching. Pretty subtle cause. Eventually I got so puzzled I put my manhood in a blind trust and took it to my favorite local shop, and they, like me, thought by process of elimination that it could only be a bent hanger. But they got out the tool and the hanger wasn't bent, of course.
Then people started to post about the 7900 shift issue. And of course all this applies to other frames with 7900...hardly just the Venge.
I used to think Di2 was mainly a solution in search of a problem until I found the problem that fit. This one.
I ran Di2 on the S-works until I sold it, perhaps foolishly anticipating a redesign and of course there were no issues with rear shifts. I'm now running 9000 mechanical on an Allez smartweld for rain days/crits and indoor, and I tend to think 9000 would be terrific on current venge frame, all the cables and effort levels are pretty slick.


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## Duke249 (Apr 4, 2002)

Sounds like its a Dura Ace 7900 problem, not a Venge problem. I had heard of the weak springs on the 7900/6700 groupsets. Shimano wanted to keep the light action of the shifters, but didn't account for the twists and turns of the under-the-bartape and internal routing which caused too much friction in the cable line thus botching the shifting. Keep in mind when 7900 was engineered internal routing was a novelty at best. 7 years ago when 7900 would've been engineered, virtually all road frames had external cable routing.


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## TricrossRich (Mar 26, 2014)

thumper8888 said:


> The only sense that it was a Venge issue was that my setup required a lot of convolutions in the rear cable, some of them pretty tight radii, which make turns in a cable significantly more likely to cause friction. Tight turn inside Zipp vuka sprint bars, turn down into frame, wide turn at BB and the S-turn coming out... I think the tight turns in the bar was the straw that broke the camel spine.


Wait... so how is this a Venge problem.. its the Zipp bars combined with the poor design of the 7900 RD and shifters... not the frame.


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## thumper8888 (Apr 7, 2009)

TricrossRich said:


> Wait... so how is this a Venge problem.. its the Zipp bars combined with the poor design of the 7900 RD and shifters... not the frame.


Ease up. What i was saying was that it's only a Venge problem in the sense that maybe the various turns were more significant that on some frames. Impossible to quantify whether it's in the worst 10 percent or the worst 40 percent of internally-routed frames. But I'm pretty sure this -- and yes it's a 7900 problem - that the situation was better in other frames or there would have been some sort of Shimano edict against internal routing.


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## TricrossRich (Mar 26, 2014)

thumper8888 said:


> Ease up. What i was saying was that it's only a Venge problem in the sense that maybe the various turns were more significant that on some frames. Impossible to quantify whether it's in the worst 10 percent or the worst 40 percent of internally-routed frames. But I'm pretty sure this -- and yes it's a 7900 problem - that the situation was better in other frames or there would have been some sort of Shimano edict against internal routing.


My guess is that it has nothing to do with the frame, its the combination of 7900 on the Zipp bars. Put that combination on any frame and you'd have issues. I believe that Zipp has redesigned their aero bars. 

As I noted earlier, I'm running DA9000 on a Venge with SWorks aerofly bars and haven't had any issues.


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## thumper8888 (Apr 7, 2009)

I believe that's basically what I said. Hate to quote myself, but:

"But it's not really a Venge problem. It was a fairly well-known 7900 problem and I assume the Ultegra of that generation too."

It was not a problem on every brand of bike with vuka bars, though. Just some. Some bikes have a bit more twist than others. That doesn't mean there is a fault with the venue, just that maybe it has, for example, a cumulative 7 degrees more of bend than, oh, 70 percent of the bikes out there, something like that. Experiences with 9000 and other bars aren't going to tell you much. It was a pretty subtle problem and it wouldnt have taken much change in the friction to fix it, and the 9000 cables, which are supposedly a lot slicker, would probably have done it on my bike.
But yeah, it's a shimano problem. That's why they made those cables slicker.


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## NealH (May 2, 2004)

Gore Ride-On cables solved the problem easily.


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## thumper8888 (Apr 7, 2009)

It may be wishful thinking, but it seems more and more like the lone new road model coming this season is the Venge ... if you were going to trot out a new Roubaix it seems like you'd put it under riders on the big cobblestones races.
I guess in theory they could unveil it at cobble section in the Tour, but really it seems less likely.


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