# Help buying first real bike



## votum (Sep 16, 2014)

Hey folks, new here.

I am 200-220 depending on the season, very fit, in the Army a decade now, and just sold my car and motorcycle. I have been riding crappy walmart bikes for years and just popped a tube on a fixy Id been riding for awhile. Decided to get a nice bike. Only thing is, having trouble deciding. I know I want a Specialized Diverge, but I can't decide on how much to spend. My girlfriend would kill me if she ever found out I spent 8500 on a bike, but I also feel like I am missing out on some major benefits by only buying the 1100 model.

I commute 1ish miles per day, so 5-10 minutes, and would like to ride 50-100 on the weekends. I am leaning towards the Diverge Elite A1, but things like through axles, internal cables, upgraded seatpost, more rack spots, and so on keep me wondering If I should spring for the smartweld or even the carbon models. Money is a non issue, but I want the best bang for the buck really, which is why I am thinking 1400 is plenty for Tiagra groupset and my first real bike.

LBS only sells specialized so that's where I am shopping.

Also, I rode a Roubaix and it was a dream, but I want more off road rough road capability.


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## obed (Jan 12, 2014)

looks like a fine choice... the tiagra groupset works well.


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## cnardone (Jun 28, 2014)

You can be super happy with a Tiagra equipped bike. No issues with that at all.


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## votum (Sep 16, 2014)

Excellent, thanks guys! I was most concerned with the additional cool things you'd get with a 3000 dollar bike compared to a 1400 one. It seems like the diverge especially has unfair price points. Roubaix has carbon models for under 2 grand and the first carbon diverge is 3500!

Just doesn't seem well thought out unless that many people really fall for marketing mumbo jumbo on an initial run of a new model


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## PJ352 (Dec 5, 2007)

votum said:


> .. many people really fall for marketing mumbo jumbo on an initial run of a new model.


Doesn't even have to be a new model. People fall for market-speak for older models with 'new/ improved' features as well.

I agree with you and the others; the Tiagra equipped bike will serve you well, and for many years.


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## votum (Sep 16, 2014)

Excellent t, sounds good then. Now here's hoping the bike shows up on time, shop says they'll have it in stock by end of September. 

Buying a Roubaix with sora for 1900-2100 would be dumb compared to the diverge right? As best I can tell they are identical except the diverge has room for wider tires and discs standard. Also exposed cables but internals look marginally cleaner. Seems that if I buy the diverge I'd have a high class aluminum frame, then I could throw a cgr post on it and basically have a stronger Roubaix.

Thoughts?


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## PJ352 (Dec 5, 2007)

If you have any interest in venturing off road (and your OP says you do), stay with the Diverge or similar CX bike. You can always venture back onto paved surfaces with them, so you gain some versatility over relaxed geo bikes like the Roubaix. 

I wouldn't second guess this. I think you're on the right track here.


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## ngl (Jan 22, 2002)

Votum, here are a couple of points to consider:

1. About the Diverge Elite A1. My wife has a bike with 10 speed tiagra. It works great. Personally, I am still not sold on disc brakes, especially when they add about $200 to the cost of a bike. The Diverge has an aluminum frame compared to the carbon frame on the Roubaix. Personally, I feel this bike is a little over priced compared to the Roubaix. 

2. About the Roubaix. I have this bike with 9-speed Sora (for my daughter) and the carbon frame is a dream. Maybe talk to your LBS about changing the 25 mm tires for some 28 mm tires (with some tread) for a little more off-road capability. This is a good bike for the price. The 9-speed Sora group works good, but, not as nice as the 10-speed tiagra. The new 11-speed 105 should work excellent.


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## crit_boy (Aug 6, 2013)

With that short commute - keeping commuting on the pos bikes. You won't care if they get dented, scratched, or stolen. OTOH, if you can keep your bike in a safe place during the day, try turning your short commute into a long after work ride.

Are you sure you want a road bike? While they have limited off road ability, if you want to ride trails (not talking double track multi-use trails that are paved or groomed with crushed stone) then a mountain bike may be what you are after. 

As for a good bike, it is difficult to give advice. If you don't end up riding regularly, then it is a waste of money. If you end up loving it, then you may regret not getting the best thing you budget allowed. So when you try something new are you the kind of person who lights it on fire and pushes it off a cliff or not?

It is very had to ride 50 to 100 miles only on the weekend. Road biking is not like many other sports. It requires multiple days per week. Else your a$$ is always sore, you feel like crap the whole ride, and you don't see much improvement.


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## CliffordK (Jun 6, 2014)

crit_boy said:


> With that short commute - keeping commuting on the pos bikes. You won't care if they get dented, scratched, or stolen. OTOH, if you can keep your bike in a safe place during the day, try turning your short commute into a long after work ride.


I agree, for a 1 mile commute, keep using your Walmart or Goodwill special. Let it take the abuse.

But, anything over a couple of miles, it is just more pleasant to use a nice bike.



crit_boy said:


> It is very had to ride 50 to 100 miles only on the weekend. Road biking is not like many other sports. It requires multiple days per week. Else your a$$ is always sore, you feel like crap the whole ride, and you don't see much improvement.


I disagree. For years I've commuted... 5 or so miles each way, then added in a few longer rides, usually around 40 to 50 miles or so. My two "century plus" rides this year were this spring, after a winter, and perhaps a couple of years of minimal riding, and little or no special training for them.

Of course, if you plan on doing 100 miles in 4 hours, and still feel refreshed afterwards, then a little more training would be in store.

Anyway, I agree. The $1000 to $2000 range is a good starter range. Perhaps a bit less if you are more adventurous with Craigslist and used bikes.


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## seacoaster (May 9, 2010)

CliffordK said:


> Of course, if you plan on doing 100 miles in 4 hours, and still feel refreshed afterwards, then a little more training would be in store.


I don't know anyone who can do a century in 4 hours, at least not on a bike. That's an average of 25 mph!!!!


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## votum (Sep 16, 2014)

ngl said:


> Votum, here are a couple of points to consider:
> 
> 1. About the Diverge Elite A1. My wife has a bike with 10 speed tiagra. It works great. Personally, I am still not sold on disc brakes, especially when they add about $200 to the cost of a bike. The Diverge has an aluminum frame compared to the carbon frame on the Roubaix. Personally, I feel this bike is a little over priced compared to the Roubaix.
> 
> 2. About the Roubaix. I have this bike with 9-speed Sora (for my daughter) and the carbon frame is a dream. Maybe talk to your LBS about changing the 25 mm tires for some 28 mm tires (with some tread) for a little more off-road capability. This is a good bike for the price. The 9-speed Sora group works good, but, not as nice as the 10-speed tiagra. The new 11-speed 105 should work excellent.


Thanks for the tip, real world advice is great. My reasoning for getting a disc now is I'm from Seattle and living in Monterey now. While its not rainy here I'll likely end up back in Seattle or in D.C. area. Between the base secteur and then the diverge elite you get two group sets higher and disc brakes. My ideal weight is also 250+ so I think the disc breaks would just work better for me. Coming from no real frame of reference helps too as those will be all I know.

I was in the shop yesterday and they are getting a few diverge elites in stock in a couple weeks so they said no need to preorder. They want me to try it first anyway.

When I say off road its more of if I'm riding down pavement that turns into dirt or something I don't want to get stressed out. I'll really be 95% road, but really rough roads, as in I popped an intertube on the road, so that's the only question really. I'm leaning towards not second guessing myself.

I'll never be racing road bikes, but I will likely be doing hundred plus mile road trips. I picked the diverge because honestly, from an amateur perspective, it should have nearly no difference from the Roubaix on the road. Weight difference is negligible and I'm looking at mid range diverge or bottom range Roubaix. I'd also be spending 3000 for the same groupset on Roubaix as I pay 1400 for on diverge, with the benefit of being able to do offroad stuff (were I to return to Washington). 

Budget is very loose, as in I could spend 10k on a bike, I just don't see why I would need to. I've researched a lot about frame types and it seems like most people say use whatever you want and you won't really be bothered by the differences until you are elite level anyway. 

So newest plan was just put a cobl goblr seatpost on the diverge, which would probably make aluminum feel like carbon to my untrained bum.

Also, I can make my commute six miles each way too, not a big deal. I primarily lift weights for my workout and want another type of cardio. Also my waist is a 32 and my quads are 27, so biking should thin my legs out lol


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## votum (Sep 16, 2014)

Just realized I'm being that annoying newb who doesn't stop asking questions lol!


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## votum (Sep 16, 2014)

Also after doing a but more research this morning and reading real folks opinions the difference between the Roubaix and diverge on the road assuming identical tire and wheels would be negligible. So now I'm looking at the smartweld diverge, how the hell do you guys do this? Its worse than computer components!


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## votum (Sep 16, 2014)

Also, one hopefully last quick question, I can upgrade individual parts in the tiagra group set up to ultegra but if I were to have a sora or Claris I'd need to upgrade the full group set or a good amount if it to move up right


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## ngl (Jan 22, 2002)

Don't ever stop asking questions. 

It's my understanding the (carbon frame) diverge is the same as the Roubaix but has larger openings to accept larger tires. What are the prices quoted for each bike with similar components? I was told the diverge costs more (with the same component group) because of being a new bike with a low production rate. Is this true?

I believe the (aluminum frame) diverge is similar to the Secture....but, I have not done my research.

As a rule, the disc brake option on any bike will cost you $. As I stated before, only you can determine if you want them (on whatever bike you purchase). Maybe one of the resident mechanics can state the benefits (if any) of disc brakes over rim brakes.

Personally, I would spend the money to buy a carbon frame over aluminum frame.

Personally (if I had a set price I was going to spend), I would rather have a carbon frame with a lower group set (like tiagra for example) than an aluminum frame with a higher group set (like 105 for example). The group set will not make you go faster. The carbon frame will make a longer ride more enjoyable.

You mentioned you popped a tube. This can & will happen no matter what tires you have on your bike. As I stated earlier, ask your LBS about swapping tires. It sounds like you have a great Specialized LBS.

Continue to ask questions (here and at your LBS) and to test ride a few bikes.


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## ngl (Jan 22, 2002)

votum said:


> Also, one hopefully last quick question, I can upgrade individual parts in the tiagra group set up to ultegra but if I were to have a sora or Claris I'd need to upgrade the full group set or a good amount if it to move up right


You can upgrade individual 10 speed tiagra to 10 speed Ultegra (if this what you are thinking). You will not notice a huge difference. The tiagra is just "that good". 

It will be easier to just replace the whole group if you want to go to 11-speed Ultegra.
You may also need a new wheel set if your wheels are not 11-speed compatible. 

The 11-speed cassettes that come with the 11-speed groups have an extra gear (over 10-speed groups). Usually that extra gear is an 11t cog which would be great if you can pedal over 30 mph. Most of us can't. 

The Sora is a 9-speed group. I believe you will need new 10-speed shifters, 10-speed chain and 10-speed cassette to go to upgrade to 10-speed. Again, it will be easier to purchase a new a whole new group if you want to upgrade to 11-speed.


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## votum (Sep 16, 2014)

NGL, the diverge starts at 1100 with Claris, and is 1400 with tiagra discs are standard and the diverge is replacing the secteur disc if not the whole secteur line. The Roubaix starts at 1950 with disc and 1800 without, with sora. The only difference between the two being the Roubaix is all carbon, albeit a lower quality 8r. 

Honestly the budget started at 500, and has moved several notches to 2000. I also got a random 3000 check I had forgotten about recently, which fueled the budget to 2k. My concern honestly is as a beginner a 3000 dollar bike seems a waste. However, a 2000 bike also seems a waste if odds are I'll want a 3000 in a few years. But I guess a few grand isn't much for grownups lol. I'm at the point in my life where I can freely spend. I'd rather have more in savings than in items though lol. Of like to take my lady to Germany soonish. 

Anyway, yeah that's the dealio, 1400$ for diverge aluminum and tiagra, 2000ish for Roubaix low end carbon and sora, or even the smartweld diverge, but that is stretching my perceived budget.

Oh and the tube I popped was on a road bike I got new on amazon for 150, not worth upgrading or fixing any piece of it.


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## ngl (Jan 22, 2002)

Honestly, I would recommend paying $300 to get the 10-speed Tiagra over the 8-speed Claris. The extra 2 cassette cogs will make the gear changes a lot closer. My wife has the Tiagra and I am impressed with it (especially for being entry level). 

The Sora on the Roubaix is ok (and would be better if you change the 11-32 cassette to something like a 12-27 or 13-27 (if available) to get closer gear changes. I have never compared the Diverge ride to the Roubaix.

Definitely ride both bikes before purchase. At the prices quoted, I would be inclined to purchase the $1400 Diverge and ask the LBS to recommend some quality tires. Also, most Specialized dealers have a saddle test program where you can try out various Specialized saddles. A comfy saddle and quality tires can significantly enhance the ride quality.

Keep us posted.


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## votum (Sep 16, 2014)

OK perfect, you made my mind up.

Even though the diverge is aluminum in my budget range it only costs 300 to go from sora to tiagra, I priced the parts and you save like fifty or so vs total upgrade. The Roubaix, although carbon, costs over 1000 to go from sora to tiagra, although they skip tiagra and go straight to 105 I think. 

The shop wants me to ride it before I buy as well,, so now I wait and research lol. They said no one has asked about the diverge so I'm guessing its relatively unknown right now.


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## votum (Sep 16, 2014)

And my arms are nearly 20", I've got more shock absorption built in than the difference between the two frames would probably make. 

One thing though, lifetime, carbon is supposedly the same as steel but lighter and no rust, I keep reading aluminum is 5 years, but I can't imagine aluminum disintegrating or becoming so bad I need a new frame...I mean there are fifty year old planes that still ha e the same aluminum all over them.


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## cnardone (Jun 28, 2014)

don't believe that your long arms are going to save your bottom from bumps. I actually have the Spec Secteur Sport disk (Sora and 30c tires). It is no longer offered so you are probably correct that the bike you are looking at is very similar (if not the same frame) as mine. It looks like they come with the same fork, Wheel set and tires. 

I rented a full carbon bike Jamis Zenith with 105 group set while on vacation. It was no more fun to ride than my bike. And with 23c tires is was murder on my bottom compared to my Spec. 

Unless you are racing, you are not going to outgrow the Tiagra group set anytime soon. Besides if you like riding as much as many of us do, you are going to want to upgrade in 2-3 years even if you get carbon with 105 now. There is no way ar round that.

cmn


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## crit_boy (Aug 6, 2013)

seacoaster said:


> I don't know anyone who can do a century in 4 hours, at least not on a bike. That's an average of 25 mph!!!!


He cruises in his 54/9 or 54/10. On the Internet, he is that fast. 

SPDs have improved pull up and power!

Those of us who are not endowed with CliffordK's ability to make 500 watts while tooling around, it is difficult to ride a for little to no time during the week and then bust out centuries on the weekend.


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## ngl (Jan 22, 2002)

votum said:


> One thing though, lifetime, carbon is supposedly the same as steel but lighter and no rust, I keep reading aluminum is 5 years, but I can't imagine aluminum disintegrating or becoming so bad I need a new frame...I mean there are fifty year old planes that still ha e the same aluminum all over them.


I have friends riding 15 year old aluminum frames and they are still in excellent condition. Honestly, I have never seen an aluminum frame needing to be replaced because of age.

I agree with waiting to test ride both bikes before you purchase. I imagine those large tires on the Diverge will smooth out the ride.


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## MikeWMass (Oct 15, 2011)

crit_boy said:


> ... it is difficult to ride a for little to no time during the week and then bust out centuries on the weekend.


I ride only on the weekends. I am no star athlete, and am old, but routinely do 50-70 miles each Saturday and Sunday, and do a couple or 3 centuries (nowhere near 4 hours, though). I run most days during the week, which helps. 
I would agree that one will never get really fast (or probably even moderately fast) riding only on the weekends, and I am pretty sure I will never do a double century. I will see what happens when I retire and can ride more often!


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## kjdhawkhill (Jan 29, 2011)

votum said:


> how the hell do you guys do this? Its worse than computer components!


You can over think it. You can over ask it on the internet. Or you can pull the trigger and override your brain.


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## votum (Sep 16, 2014)

cnardone said:


> don't believe that your long arms are going to save your bottom from bumps. I actually have the Spec Secteur Sport disk (Sora and 30c tires). It is no longer offered so you are probably correct that the bike you are looking at is very similar (if not the same frame) as mine. It looks like they come with the same fork, Wheel set and tires.
> 
> I rented a full carbon bike Jamis Zenith with 105 group set while on vacation. It was no more fun to ride than my bike. And with 23c tires is was murder on my bottom compared to my Spec.
> 
> ...


I meant twenty inches around lol . Meaning I'm a bigger guy. 48" chest 32" waist o.o. I hate the gym, it also love it ha


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## votum (Sep 16, 2014)

Well heck, sounds like the upgrade fever will be there no matter what, so diverge it is. Hoping they get the elite and the smartweld in stock so I can try both aluminums. Fwiw seemed like my lady was leaning towards the spendier bike, saying its better to spend 3500 vs 5000 if I bought two in a few years. Plus I get cash back so the more money I spend the fancier pants I can get at the bike shop


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## votum (Sep 16, 2014)

So here's a bit of good news,

after talking to the lady she seemed to encourage the larger purchase. So now I am actually considering getting the Smartweld aluminum ($2700, 105 groupo, hydraulic discs and shifting + better wheels, ICR, CGR seatpost, thru axle in front, 11spd) or even the Carbon Comp model, basically all the same but 8r carbon. I get 10% cash back at dealer and looks like 15% off accessories with some affiliate program my master's degree college has with them, so I could grab nice tires and a few other upgrades even.

LBS says they are definitely getting the elite in, $1400 one, but I'm trying to convince them to get the Smartweld too. I'd assume they'll also get a carbon in but who knows.


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## ngl (Jan 22, 2002)

Hey, definitely test ride all the bikes. Keep in mind tires, tire pressure and saddle will influence the ride of each bike.


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## votum (Sep 16, 2014)

I've already got my own saddle and figured new tires would be a must. Looks like everyone puts crap on stock bikes. I keep hearing gatorskin so may get some of those.


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## onpaperwings (Aug 19, 2014)

I'll go ahead and throw my two cents in the ring:

I think that the Diverge is the right way to go for you based on rider weight, rough roads, etc. If you can afford the SmartWeld, go for it as the 11-speed 105 will treat you great for a very long time. If not, the Elite A1 is a great bike and still has 10-speed Tiagra and a carbon fork.

Disc brakes are a HUGE advantage and I feel that anyone that is not sure about them have not spent any time on them. I have been using mech. discs for years and I rode a Specialized Tarmac with rim brakes (Ultegra level) and I noticed the braking was not as good.


PS - I am currently waiting for my Diverge Comp Carbon to come in! I have been riding an aluminum Bianchi Hybrid that I turned into a cyclocross bike for 10 years and have finally saved my pennies for my dream bike. I'm upgrading all of the components to full Ultegra but like the all-black of the Comp frame over the Expert.


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## votum (Sep 16, 2014)

While waiting for the diverge I've looked at a few brands. Hopefully testing a trek domane today and the gt grade honestly looks good too. You get the same amount of bike for 700-1000 less with both of those models. My buddy who raced for five years said he refuses to ride anything but spesh so I figured I'd follow his advice. 

If the damn diverge was out yet I'd already have bought and forgot the rest. Right now though for the diverge its honestly a tossup between the comp carbon and smartweld. Money isn't an issue but I can't justify spending another 500 on the expert, doesn't seem like 500 worth extra


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## onpaperwings (Aug 19, 2014)

votum said:


> While waiting for the diverge I've looked at a few brands. Hopefully testing a trek domane today and the gt grade honestly looks good too. You get the same amount of bike for 700-1000 less with both of those models. My buddy who raced for five years said he refuses to ride anything but spesh so I figured I'd follow his advice.


If you haven't yet found this article, give this a read: Buyers Guide: Review of Gravel bikes - the perfect 'all-road' choice | Bikesoup Magazine It is the best summary of these type of bikes.

The GT Grade looks like a great bike as well. I am choosing the Diverge based on the thru-axles both front and back (I come from MTB and love thru-axles) and the fact that my LBS is a Specialized dealer and there is not a GT dealer in town.

Trust me, I have been chomping at the bit to get my Diverge. All of my components come in tomorrow.


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## votum (Sep 16, 2014)

I've read it so many times lol. I'm hoping the LBS gets some in today, but I'm in the same boat, two shops who sell bikes, one has five locations in a ten mile radius and only sells specialized, they have all the fancy dealer options like fitting etc, and one shop with one location who sells other brands including trek and giant. No GT dealers either, their site says a one man operation nearby is a dealer, but I'd bet he has a handful of bikes at most.


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## onpaperwings (Aug 19, 2014)

In the end, it is worth waiting to ride the bike in person. If you are planning to drop this amount of money on a bike, you want to make sure it feels right.

I have test-ridden the Roubaix several times (it is the exact same geometry as the Diverge) and I LOVE the feel of it. As long as the Diverge feels the same (which it should) I am going for it as my all-in-one bike.


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## votum (Sep 16, 2014)

Same here with the Roubaix, probably will take one for a few days this afternoon. 

Did that article rank those bikes or just list them randomly?


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## onpaperwings (Aug 19, 2014)

I think they were just a random list and not in any order.

To throw another wrench in your thoughts, the Salsa Warbird is a wonderful bike as well. If it was carbon and had rear thru-axles, I would be buying it instead (as I am a big Salsa fan that owns a Spearfish 2).


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## votum (Sep 16, 2014)

Just got done riding the giant defy 0 with di2 and the domane 5.2. The giant smoked the trek as far as feeling goes. I really liked the shop owner so I spent a lot of my time bsing with him. I had meant to go ride the Roubaix right then as well at another shop but didn't have time. But between the defy and the domane, the defy won for sure. It just felt right. Only thing is I lose most of what I like about the diverge lol. I'm going to have the closest branch get some Roubaix in for me to ride longer. 

Interestingly though, I discovered I was a 54 in the defy and a 56 in the domane, so I'll make sure to test both sizes of Roubaix. We have no dirt trails or anything here but weve got crap pavement


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## obed (Jan 12, 2014)

buy what feels best to you... and that varies with the rider. When I wanted an endurance performance bike I tested a lot of different brands, including the ones you have mentioned and to me the domane felt the best... a friend of mine tested the same bikes and chose the roubiax..
when I wanted to add a stiff aero bike to my stable I rode what was available here in Houston and fully expected to wind up with the specialized venge, but to me the giant propel was a better feel...it does seem that giant offers the better dollar value, but you are not going to ride dollars, you are going to ride the bike...go with what feels best to you in the price range you want to spend.


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## votum (Sep 16, 2014)

If they'd just get the damned diverge out to shops already!


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## PJ352 (Dec 5, 2007)

obed said:


> ... you are not going to ride dollars, you are going to ride the bike...go with what feels best to you in the price range you want to spend.


Probably the best advice here. Actually, probably the best advice to anyone authoring a "which bike to buy" thread! :thumbsup:


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## votum (Sep 16, 2014)

Agreed there!

Plus I drive a nice big bronco with a 32 gallon gas tank, a bike will pay for itself in a year


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## crit_boy (Aug 6, 2013)

votum said:


> While waiting for the diverge I've looked at a few brands. Hopefully testing a trek domane today and the gt grade honestly looks good too. You get the same amount of bike for 700-1000 less with both of those models. My buddy who raced for five years said he refuses to ride anything but spesh so I figured I'd follow his advice.


Buy the bike that feels good to you. Your buddy is not riding it. Blind loyalty to a single brand may not allow you to pick the best thing for you. As far as spesh, in the past I always hated how they rode. But, this time around I bought one. Next time, who knows. 

Re: "You get the same amount of bike for 700-1000 less": Sounds like salesman talk. You are giving up something. Components, wheels, frame, something. The major manufacturers have pretty similar price points and components at those price points.


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## votum (Sep 16, 2014)

I dont know man, maybe its because my LBS only sells specialized so they never discount anything but the other shop I went to was selling a 2013 giant defy 0 with di2 and some carbon rims for 3600, while the diverge comp carbon comes with 105 and pretty average wheels. 

Even with the trek it comes with ultegra at that 3500 price. It didn't feel right at all so I'm not considering it anymore. 

I just noticed plenty of ultegra carbon bikes from 25-3500 in a shop, and you won't get ultegra until 4000 with the diverge.


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## onpaperwings (Aug 19, 2014)

votum said:


> If they'd just get the damned diverge out to shops already!


Stopped by my LBS today and had them call their Specialized rep to ask about the Diverge shipping dates. I placed my order on the "hot list" which is the list that bike shops create when ordering their first run of new year of bikes. This makes my bike hopefully one of the first to be shipped out.

The guy said that his best guess is that the Diverge is "on the water" which means it has left the factory (in Taiwan, I believe) but has not yet arrived at the factory storage in the US. The shipping could take anywhere from one week to three weeks and then it has to go through customs and be shipped to the factory shipping/storage facility. From there, it will then be sent out via ground shipping in the order of bike shop preference and pre-order status.

All that to say: it looks like mid October at the earliest for me and possibly later for other shops. Which bums me out but what can you do?

I did get to look at all of my Ultegra components sitting in a bag waiting for a bike. They are pretty and very light weight!


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## onpaperwings (Aug 19, 2014)

Part of the difference is pricing is that they have gotten carbon road bikes down to a cheap level with Ultegra components but the new gravel/off-road/endurance bikes have much smaller sales numbers.

Also, the Diverge is a brand-new bike with a great deal of production and tooling costs involved I'm sure. As these style of bikes grow in popularity, they will get cheaper. As for the Giant and Trek - they are technically not new bikes but rather adaptations of their road or cyclocross frames.


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## votum (Sep 16, 2014)

True, but the diverge is a super obvious adaptation of the Roubaix frame. None of this matters until I can sit on one though lol.


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## votum (Sep 16, 2014)

onpaperwings said:


> Stopped by my LBS today and had them call their Specialized rep to ask about the Diverge shipping dates. I placed my order on the "hot list" which is the list that bike shops create when ordering their first run of new year of bikes. This makes my bike hopefully one of the first to be shipped out.
> 
> The guy said that his best guess is that the Diverge is "on the water" which means it has left the factory (in Taiwan, I believe) but has not yet arrived at the factory storage in the US. The shipping could take anywhere from one week to three weeks and then it has to go through customs and be shipped to the factory shipping/storage facility. From there, it will then be sent out via ground shipping in the order of bike shop preference and pre-order status.
> 
> ...


Yeah it does sjcm, and is making me think lol. The non spec lbs here has a 13 dsfy 0 advanced with di2 ultegra that I rode and felt amazing. I'm now heavily considering leaping to a defy, seems to be a hell of a lot more for my money. The 2015 models in carbon are all DISC brakes andfull ultegra is 2600. At the 3500 model you get a much nicer wheelset and full ultegra which just seems like a lot more value than diverge o.0. Damn these bikes lol


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## onpaperwings (Aug 19, 2014)

Ha! The Defy is a really great bike. I have two friends that have them and even went cycling in the Swiss Alps with them.

They are a bit more of a "road only" kind of bike, but still have a good, endurance setup. The 2015 Defy Advanced Pro 1 or the Defy Advanced 1 both look like great bikes and have full Ultegra.

Either way, just decide when you want to buy the bike. If you are ready now, get the Defy and go have a blast!


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## votum (Sep 16, 2014)

Ha, I really want to wait for the diverge, but the trek/giant/cannondale dealer treated me real well, very friendly, whereas the spec dealer was a jackass. They also tell me a different date every week, sometimes they say end of month and today a guy said end of year. Only way I'll get one now is if I just can't decide before then lol. 

Of the defy could sneak in a 30mm tire I'd get it in a heartbeat


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## onpaperwings (Aug 19, 2014)

Don't put up with jackass employees or stores. Find a LBS that you like and always support them. My shop is family owned and I know every employees name. They always treat me well.

My guy saw a December date on the computer when I asked him the other day and that is why he called. Because I asked a long time back to be put on the "hot list" it sounds like my bike will be one of the first to ship.

To me, waiting until December seems crazy. Just find a bike and shop that feels good and ride.


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## GOTA (Aug 27, 2012)

votum said:


> Ha, I really want to wait for the diverge, but the trek/giant/cannondale dealer treated me real well, very friendly, whereas the spec dealer was a jackass. They also tell me a different date every week, sometimes they say end of month and today a guy said end of year. Only way I'll get one now is if I just can't decide before then lol.
> 
> Of the defy could sneak in a 30mm tire I'd get it in a heartbeat


Check out the defy thread in the Giant section. Someone there posted that he was able to fit a 30mm tire on his Defy and thinks he has clearance for a 32


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## votum (Sep 16, 2014)

Well. I'd made my decision based on the fa t that no one knew when the diverge would be in. I had bought the 2013 defy advanced 0 with full ultegra di2 for 3800 including taxes and bottle cages. Dealer didn't take amex or discover (gotta get my points lol, pay it off every month and get a few extra goodies from amazon for free) so I have to wait for a new debit MasterCard to show up. 

Lo and behold, spec dealer calls the next afternoon, just finished building the diverge in ALU, 1400 a1 expert. They say its waiting for me to come ride. After the ride I learned how bad tiagra really is and how rough ALU feels. The disc brakes on the lower end models are also terribly bad, it feels way worse than rims, like 50% worse. Dealer assured me that discs have to break in for a week or so then get much better. I took a Roubaix out right after and it rode like a cloud, although it felt a little slow. Didn't even have the cgr seat post on it. 

So, the giant dealer wouldn't give me any sort of military discount, while the spec dealer will give me 10% back in store credit for any purchases and 15% off accessories. 

I'm now wondering, as I am spending this much, is 3800 a bad deal for the 2013 defy? Its also a 10spd, and who knows how many miles it has already. I know I'll need certain things, at the spec dealer it'll all be free, as I'll get 350+ in store credit.

Sorry for being that pain in the ass noob lol


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## onpaperwings (Aug 19, 2014)

The 2013 Defy Advanced 0 for $3,800 is a pretty good deal. It isn't the most amazing deal ever, but $1,000 off retail is pretty damn good. If it felt right, go for it and just have fun. It will be a great bike! 

The reality is that every year the companies come out with something new (11 spd, soon it will be 13 spd) to try and get your money. 10 spd will treat you really well and the DI2 shifting is obviously a very good thing. You won't get that on the Diverge unless you spend a bunch more money.

Yes, assume that you will spend 10% of your total bike price on accessories (lights, bags, pedals, etc.) to get you out the door and ready to ride.


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## votum (Sep 16, 2014)

Well, a guy a few hours away has the 2014 model for 3k even. Only issue is its a xl, 59.5 toptube. By giants sizing it is a 58.5 size. The sealer had me on a ml I think, the top tube had 55.5 stamped on it and had to extend the stem and slide the seat back. So I'm thinking I can fit an xl fine with a short stem. My self measured inseam is 33.5 or so, so I can standover. I'm going to a giant shop today to check but this may be the best option lol.


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## GOTA (Aug 27, 2012)

votum said:


> Well. I'd made my decision based on the fa t that no one knew when the diverge would be in. I had bought the 2013 defy advanced 0 with full ultegra di2 for 3800 including taxes and bottle cages. Dealer didn't take amex or discover (gotta get my points lol, pay it off every month and get a few extra goodies from amazon for free) so I have to wait for a new debit MasterCard to show up.
> 
> Lo and behold, spec dealer calls the next afternoon, just finished building the diverge in ALU, 1400 a1 expert. They say its waiting for me to come ride. After the ride I learned how bad tiagra really is and how rough ALU feels. The disc brakes on the lower end models are also terribly bad, it feels way worse than rims, like 50% worse. Dealer assured me that discs have to break in for a week or so then get much better. I took a Roubaix out right after and it rode like a cloud, although it felt a little slow. Didn't even have the cgr seat post on it.
> 
> ...


You're talking about a lot of money so it's important that you are happy with whatever you end up with. The Roubaix and the Defy are a real apples to apples comparison. The Diverge was something different and really is more like the Giant Anyroad or Revolt. 

Figure out what your total cost would be for the Defy and the Roubaix and make sure you include the store credit. See where the numbers are and then you decide if the Giant is worth $500 or $1000 or whatever it is more than the Roubaix.

Forget the 10 speed vs 11 stuff. DI2 of either generation is top of the line. You'll be happy with that no matter if it's 10 or 11.


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## votum (Sep 16, 2014)

I ended up deciding while the diverge is nice, it's really meant for more kffroading than I'll do, and losing the eyelets for fenders and racks is no big deal, because there are solutions if I need.

But a dude on craigslist is giving me a 2014 defy with upgraded bars and carbon wheelset for 28, he is sponsored by giant too


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## GOTA (Aug 27, 2012)

votum said:


> Well, a guy a few hours away has the 2014 model for 3k even. Only issue is its a xl, 59.5 toptube. By giants sizing it is a 58.5 size. The sealer had me on a ml I think, the top tube had 55.5 stamped on it and had to extend the stem and slide the seat back. So I'm thinking I can fit an xl fine with a short stem. My self measured inseam is 33.5 or so, so I can standover. I'm going to a giant shop today to check but this may be the best option lol.


You're not going to fit on different size frames no matter what the stem length. Either the original bike was too small or this new one is too large. Both aren't going to fit you. The worst thing you can do it to buy a bike that's the wrong size. Do that and after 500 miles you'll be looking to replace it for one that fits.


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## votum (Sep 16, 2014)

Just test road a giant defy xl, felt perfect for my torso. The shop had to put in a shorter seat post to bring it about 6" off the top tube, but I didn't have the cramped feeling I had on the m/l. With a whopping 4cm difference in top tubes I think I can handle. I've always been weird, on the xl bike my crotch barely touches the top bar when flat footed, but I wear a size 48 suit jacket and size 32 waist pants. I'm very wide and heavy on top, which is why I think the more laid out feeling of the larger bike feels much better. I test road after a gym session to to simulate a long ride, I didn't back centric exercises like deadlifts and weighted pullups. 

Throwing a shorter stem on will make it feel perfect, and its a damn steal at 2k off msrp. Add in the carbon aheelset and its a better deal. If it ends up not working for some odd reason, I can probably sell it for more anyway.


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## GOTA (Aug 27, 2012)

votum said:


> Just test road a giant defy xl, felt perfect for my torso. The shop had to put in a shorter seat post to bring it about 6" off the top tube, but I didn't have the cramped feeling I had on the m/l. With a whopping 4cm difference in top tubes I think I can handle. I've always been weird, on the xl bike my crotch barely touches the top bar when flat footed, but I wear a size 48 suit jacket and size 32 waist pants. I'm very wide and heavy on top, which is why I think the more laid out feeling of the larger bike feels much better. I test road after a gym session to to simulate a long ride, I didn't back centric exercises like deadlifts and weighted pullups.
> 
> Throwing a shorter stem on will make it feel perfect, and its a damn steal at 2k off msrp. Add in the carbon aheelset and its a better deal. If it ends up not working for some odd reason, I can probably sell it for more anyway.


If this size fits then don't consider the other no matter what the price. Fit is the most important factor in buying a bike.


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## votum (Sep 16, 2014)

I'll post back when I pick it up!


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## votum (Sep 16, 2014)

Thanks for the help folks. Here's the bike, a brand new Volagi Liscio. A bit off from what I was initially searching for but as far as comfort goes this thing smokes all the other bikes. Its a tiny bit less stiff than the giant. I got it at the bike trip in Santa Cruz for 3,000 even. Added shoes, pedals, new bars, bartape, u lock, computer, mirror, bottle cages, and a crazy In depth fit including taxes all said and done was 3700. I'm extremely happy but have class all weekend from 9 to 5 so probably won't get to ride much until next weekend.


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## Donn12 (Apr 10, 2012)

wow. you were al over the place. I was going to suggest that you buy a god road bike and if you find that you love it pick up a bike like a cheaper diverge for some gravel and trail rides. what size is that bike? as someone said forget the deal. the bike has to fit or it will not work


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## votum (Sep 16, 2014)

Its a 55, the shop has a dedicated fitting guy whose most advanced fit includes blood draws. I just had a basic fit, took about an hour or so. Whole process took 3.5 hours from when I walked into the shop. They made me go on a long test ride including about a 10% grade up and down. The Fitter did lots of angle measurements on my body and making small adjustments. Ended up with a wider bar, shop didn't have any 44s in carbon so I've got aluminum bars. 

The reason I ended up with this bike is because I rode a diverge, it was fine, but the lbs had no idea when the carbon models would ship. For the price the diverge is not a good buy at all. While 105 is good, ultegra is better. The mechanical discs were garbage as well. I rode Roubaix and liked it, but it felt slow. I was sold on the defy because it was a little more aggressive and still felt great plus offered much more value. But the defy had poor mudguard or rack support with no eyelets and crappy tire clearance. I discovered volagi by a fluke surfing Seattle craigslist (was going to have my buddy buy a bike and send it me then PayPal him) and got to researching. Read rave reviews and decided to hit the dealer an hour from my house. 

The bike is the best all around bike at a good value. Its got plenty of clearance for 30s and possibly 32s, rack/fender mounting spots, its got the holes to mount rim brakes if wanted, its the softest ride there is on a road bike (scientifically tested in some magazine, forgot the name). Climbs nice, steers nice, And its sexy as all hell.


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## onpaperwings (Aug 19, 2014)

Looks like a nice bike - enjoy!


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