# Neilpryde bikes?



## Charlie the Unicorn (Jan 8, 2013)

Anyone here own a neilpryde? I've heard good things about them and I'm considering a bura sl.


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## froze (Sep 15, 2002)

I admit I'm a bit weird, but in light of that I can't see spending 6 grand for a bike frame made in Shanghai China to be specific with the NeilPride bikes and the BMW Design Works.

Here is a very controversial comment: Pat McQuaid slammed by industry execs over "not true" carbon comments | Bicycle Business | BikeBiz


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## Charlie the Unicorn (Jan 8, 2013)

froze said:


> I admit I'm a bit weird, but in light of that I can't see spending 6 grand for a bike frame made in Shanghai China to be specific with the NeilPride bikes and the BMW Design Works.
> 
> Here is a very controversial comment: Pat McQuaid slammed by industry execs over "not true" carbon comments | Bicycle Business | BikeBiz


Which bike frame of theirs cost $6000? The bura sl is under $3500 and the alize is less than that.


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## froze (Sep 15, 2002)

I was speaking of a completed bike with Dura Ace; see: Overview

But even just a frame and fork by themselves is expensive for what your getting. You can get a complete Pinarello FP Quattro with the new Shimano Ultegra DI2 for $4,000, and if you get such a bike from Competitve Cyclist they insure ALL their bikes for as long as you own it that if your ever unsatisfied for any reason, including destroying the bike in a crash! they'll exchange it for a new bike of your choice equal to what your bike cost or more, if you pay the difference, for as long as you own the bike. And at least with the Pinarello, this is according to Competitive Cyclist, it's the most crash resistant frame on the market.

Not saying you should get a Pinarello or any other bike from Competitive Cyclist, this is strictly my opinion and is strictly what I would do and me only. 

I warned you ahead of time I'm weird. I'm also a tightwad which is related to my weird thoughts. If I was buying a bike I would get a bike that represents the best bang for the buck. At Competitive Cyclist, this is just my opinion again, that I think the best bang for the buck they offer is the Pinarello FP Team with Ultegra and Pinarello components for just $2,500. I can't justify spending $4400 for a bike like the Neilpryde with Ultegra when there is equally as good and probably better bikes then that for the money. Take a look at the rear stays and forks of the Neilpryde and the Pinarello, the Pinarello is noticeably stouter. Also Pinarello has a You Tube video testing it's forks and they are better then any one elses in regards to crash forces being exerted; PINARELLO LAB testing frame an fork - Simulation Crash Bike - YouTube

I'm also weird in my beliefs about the long term durability of carbon fiber, personally I would never buy a carbon fiber bike...BUT...Competition Cyclist forever satisfaction guarantee policy has given me the only reason to consider one, otherwise I would get a Motobecane Titanium Ultegra equipped road bike from Bikes Direct because I know titanium would last forever without a question in my mind...unless a crash of course, which is why I'm now considering getting a bike from Competitive Cyclist to have that feature. I rarely crash anyways, but the peace of mind is good to have; but also if components start to fail and due to years of use the bike is wearing out so instead of replacing expensive parts just send it back and get another one.

You can also get a fantastic Lynsky Titanium bike for the cost of the Neilpryde.

By the way watch my videos have linked to in my sig line below.


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## stevesbike (Jun 3, 2002)

The bura sl is a much improved frame from them - if you are considering any from Pryde, that would be the one to get. I've talked to some of the pro riders who ride them (and gave input on its design) and they say it's a big improvement over the earlier frames - stiffer and better handling. They weren't too thrilled with the first generation of frames.


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## froze (Sep 15, 2002)

Let me make something more clearer. I'm in no way saying not to get the Neilpryde, nor saying a Neilpryde is junk, if your heart and mind is on a Neilpride and you just have to have one for whatever reason then do so! I was strictly giving an opinion based on my personality of what I would do and based on other options I would personally look at. Again it was all just an opinion. I hate to repeat that, but some people get offensive when I'm clearly stating an opinion, and opinions are such that you may or may not relate too.


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## Dave Cutter (Sep 26, 2012)

froze said:


> Let me make something more clearer. I'm in no way saying not to get the Neilpryde, nor saying a Neilpryde is junk, if your heart and mind is on a Neilpride and you just have to have one for whatever reason then do so! I was strictly giving an opinion based on my personality of what I would do and based on other options I would personally look at. Again it was all just an opinion. I hate to repeat that, but some people get offensive when I'm clearly stating an opinion, and opinions are such that you may or may not relate too.


I agree with *froze* when he says you'd just be pissing away good money for a fancy name.

Bicycles that expensive should be paid for by sponsors... no purchased with after taxes income. IMHO. Follow your dreams... don't try to buy them.


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## J24 (Oct 8, 2003)

Years ago Neil Pryde was a sail maker.......their cruising sails were OK kinda low end but their racing sails weren't up to the materials technology level of the others.
Odd to see them building bikes, but I guess anyone with the cash can source generic frames from the Chinese these days


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## demonrider (Jul 18, 2012)

froze, what's weird is how you took the time to hyperlink almost every instance of CC you mention (you missed one), complete with proper capitalization. Do they give you discounts for mentioning them via avantlink? I'm genuinely curious.


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## stevesbike (Jun 3, 2002)

froze said:


> Let me make something more clearer. ....


He asked for opinions on the bura sl, not for your philosophy of bike buying. If you don't have any info on the bura sl, why even reply? FWIW, the Pinarello frameset you mention is almost twice the weight of the bura sl, so it is not even a comparable frame. And a titanium frame isn't comparable either. CC has a lot better options than the Pinarello.

As I said before, the bura sl is a much improved frame. I've talked a fair amount with pro riders about the frame who provided input into its design and find it much more race tuned than earlier Pryde frame. It would be in the same league as the R5, the BH ultralight, etc.


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## Ride-Fly (Mar 27, 2002)

J24 said:


> Years ago Neil Pryde was a sail maker.......their cruising sails were OK kinda low end but their racing sails weren't up to the materials technology level of the others.
> Odd to see them building bikes, but I guess anyone with the cash can source generic frames from the Chinese these days


I always wondered who or what Neil Pryde was. Always thought it was someone like Eddie Bauer. Thanks for answering a question I always had.


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## T K (Feb 11, 2009)

Ride-Fly said:


> I always wondered who or what Neil Pryde was. Always thought it was someone like Eddie Bauer. Thanks for answering a question I always had.


Well, now I know who Neil Pryde is. I still haven't figured out who the hell Eddie Bauer is. His name is literally on anything from trucks to high-chairs.


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## froze (Sep 15, 2002)

demonrider said:


> froze, what's weird is how you took the time to hyperlink almost every instance of CC you mention (you missed one), complete with proper capitalization. Do they give you discounts for mentioning them via avantlink? I'm genuinely curious.


Look, the only reason I like CC is due to the no hassle satisfaction guarantee that allows you to return the bike for ANY reason at ANY time that you own it and they will replace it with any bike of your choice of equal money spent when you bought it originally or greater value if you pay the difference. Prior to me finding out about CC's policy I was dung (yes, I know) ho on getting a Titanium Motobecane from Bikes Direct, and I'm still pondering it, but the return policy as CC cannot be denied for it's potential value down the road.

A lot of people buy bikes, keep them for 5 years and sell them at a major loss, with CC's policy that is now eliminated, because you can return the bike and buy the then new bike and get full value for what you paid for the first bike. You can't deny the value that represents. And on top of all of that if you crash and damage the bike it works the same way, send it back and replace it with a new one.

Is there something wrong with letting people know such a company has such a policy?

I wish I got a discount because being unemployed if they gave me a big enough discount I would just go ahead and buy the bike I have in mind now!


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## NealH (May 2, 2004)

Yea, I remember Neil Pryde sails. I always ran Shore on my J24. Gosh, those were the good ole days - even if they did virtually put me in a poor house. A suit of sales in the early 80's was about $3500. Good for a couple years.


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## NWS Alpine (Mar 16, 2012)

stevesbike said:


> It would be in the same league as the R5, the BH ultralight, etc.


These two frames are both excellent and the Bura SL is stepping right in. The guys at Glory Cycles are giving glowing reviews of the Bura SL. I've seen a few functional builds hit the high 12 lbs range.


Neilpryde's strength is their extensive knowledge of carbon layup. The Bura SL is a good example of a new entry into a tough segment of the market. They have been using carbon composites years before the cycling industry.


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## Ride-Fly (Mar 27, 2002)

froze said:


> Look, the only reason I like CC is due to the no hassle satisfaction guarantee that allows you to return the bike for ANY reason at ANY time that you own it and they will replace it with any bike of your choice of equal money spent when you bought it originally or greater value if you pay the difference. Prior to me finding out about CC's policy I was dung (yes, I know) ho on getting a Titanium Motobecane from Bikes Direct, and I'm still pondering it, but the return policy as CC cannot be denied for it's potential value down the road.
> 
> A lot of people buy bikes, keep them for 5 years and sell them at a major loss, with CC's policy that is now eliminated, because you can return the bike and buy the then new bike and get full value for what you paid for the first bike. You can't deny the value that represents. And on top of all of that if you crash and damage the bike it works the same way, send it back and replace it with a new one.
> 
> ...


froze, I like ya. I think you are a good dude from your posts that I've read. However, on this issue of returning a product in the manner that you described, I have to disagree. Granted CC uses their policy as a selling point, however, I would only return product if if failed in a manner in that it shouldn't have. Just because I got tired of it in 5 years, I would not return it to upgrade to a newer bike. If I crashed it and it cracked, I would take the loss. It was my fault. If in 5 years, the bike cracked or assploded for no legitimate reason, then yea, I would have no qualms about returning it. But not just to upgrade to a new bike, or because I broke it from a crash. 

There is a saying that I love: "Just because you may have the right to do it, doesn't mean it is the right thing to do."


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## J24 (Oct 8, 2003)

I used North, Ullmer and Shore. The Shore loft was farthest about 3 hours away, North was closest along with a local sailmaker Dave Bolyard at Westwind who was pretty good too.
I miss those days too....one design racing's changed a lot and not necessarily for the good


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## steel rider (Oct 24, 2003)

Here is a reply based on some semblance of reality. Though I only spent 30 minutes on it I rode a NP in Oakland CA so as to test the SRAM groupset. I thought the NP was a very nice bike. VERY light, stiff, race oriented. 

At the shop I was visiting, Cycle Sports, they had 2012 NP for great closeout prices. The bike doesn't work for me (I am getting a more relaxed geometry bike) I wish it did. The bike looked great, fealt great, and wasn't one of the brands you see everywhere.

The guys who can't see spending X amount of $ on something made in China sound ridiculous to me for so many reasons. I say educate yourself, know what you want, get it if you can.


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## Charlie the Unicorn (Jan 8, 2013)

Thanks for the (relevant) replies!


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## froze (Sep 15, 2002)

Ride-Fly said:


> froze, I like ya. I think you are a good dude from your posts that I've read. However, on this issue of returning a product in the manner that you described, I have to disagree. Granted CC uses their policy as a selling point, however, I would only return product if if failed in a manner in that it shouldn't have. Just because I got tired of it in 5 years, I would not return it to upgrade to a newer bike. If I crashed it and it cracked, I would take the loss. It was my fault. If in 5 years, the bike cracked or assploded for no legitimate reason, then yea, I would have no qualms about returning it. But not just to upgrade to a new bike, or because I broke it from a crash.
> 
> There is a saying that I love: "Just because you may have the right to do it, doesn't mean it is the right thing to do."


.....


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## moskowe (Mar 14, 2011)

Not only is Froze pushing CC like crazy, he's also pushing Pinarello like crazy recently. Seriously, how much do they give you for advertising on the forums ?


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## froze (Sep 15, 2002)

moskowe said:


> Not only is Froze pushing CC like crazy, he's also pushing Pinarello like crazy recently. Seriously, how much do they give you for advertising on the forums ?


HAHAHAHAHAHA. This is funny stuff. I don't even own a Pina not alone wanting to sell you one! Besides I'm on still on the fence between the Motobecane TI and the Pina, but I think I'm leaning back towards the Motobecane TI. But I probably own stock in both Road Bike Review, Bikes Direct, and Competition Cyclist!!! There is truth in the idea of diversifying! I get dividends in the form of a new bike of my choice every year. Hmmm, maybe I'll try the Pina Dogma this year equipped with Super Record 11 EPS....


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## CliveDS (Oct 7, 2009)

Watch out because I sell both Pinarello and NeilPryde so anything I say might be an attempt to sell a bike. I just had to chime in on this one because it hurts to see so much miss-information. 

- Response to J24 - "anyone can source generic frames from China" yes 100% true but that does not make it true in the case of NeilPryde. Quite the opposite in fact, NeilPryde use the worlds best and most expensive engineers to develop the frames. More so than most other brands. 

- Response to Charlie the unicorn - I have a few reviews of the NeilPryde bikes on my blog. Every attempt made to not get swept away and just sing the praises. I feel they are pretty accurate. Have a read. 

- As for froze - you are entitled to your opinion and yes that Pinarello for 4K is one of the best deals ever - It's a beautiful bike.

View attachment 274745


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## moskowe (Mar 14, 2011)

Well it would be nice if you didn't continuously spout the Pinarello propaganda every time you talked about the frame.
"it's the most crash-resistance frame on the market," "the fork was tested to be better than anyone else," yada yada yada. Do people actually believe in these things ? Every manufacturer makes those kind of claims about their bikes. And don't tell me CC are an independent tester, they clearly have a bigger relationship with Pinarello than any other brand they sell. 

Doesn't change from the fact that the FPQuattro at that price IS a great deal. Although in my personal opinion, the Helium Force for 2500 is an even better deal. Generally speaking, you have to give credit to CC for pushing out insane deals at the end of the year. 2 years ago they had the Race Machine in Force as well for 3200, and that drove me nuts for a few months.


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## froze (Sep 15, 2002)

CliveDS said:


> Watch out because I sell both Pinarello and NeilPryde so anything I say might be an attempt to sell a bike. I just had to chime in on this one because it hurts to see so much miss-information.
> 
> - Response to J24 - "anyone can source generic frames from China" yes 100% true but that does not make it true in the case of NeilPryde. Quite the opposite in fact, NeilPryde use the worlds best and most expensive engineers to develop the frames. More so than most other brands.
> 
> ...



Thanks for the reply, it's always good to hear from someone who knows about the particular subject being preached on. There is some controversy about whether or not the Pina is one of the most crash resistant frame/fork on the market. It wasn't my opinion, but rather information gleamed from other sources including CC but other places and a person who does stunt riding on one. Of course CC wants to sell a bike, but they sell lots of different brands so why say one is more crash resistant then all the others they sell? Wouldn't that piss some of their other bike manufactures they sell off?

So back to my question, the Neilpride, while designed by great engineers in the USA is still made in Asia, just as the Pina is also designed by great engineers in Italy but also made in Asia. But you are familiar with both, what is your opinion on this crash resistance nonsense?


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## Cinelli 82220 (Dec 2, 2010)

Dave Cutter said:


> I agree with *froze* when he says you'd just be pissing away good money for a fancy name.
> 
> Bicycles that expensive should be paid for by sponsors... no purchased with after taxes income. IMHO. Follow your dreams... don't try to buy them.


Can you back up your opinion? Or is it just more of the same expensive-bikes-are-stoopid drivel that is so trendy these days?

If you are an expert on carbon fab maybe you could explain the layup schedule of the Neil Pryde frames, and why they don't meet your standards. Or is it the geometry that you don't like? Poor paint? Really, have you visited the factory and observed any of their processes?


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## froze (Sep 15, 2002)

Cinelli 82220 said:


> Can you back up your opinion? Or is it just more of the same expensive-bikes-are-stoopid drivel that is so trendy these days?
> 
> If you are an expert on carbon fab maybe you could explain the layup schedule of the Neil Pryde frames, and why they don't meet your standards. Or is it the geometry that you don't like? Poor paint? Really, have you visited the factory and observed any of their processes?


I don't think he's saying that expensive bikes are stupid, he saying they have a place, and he's saying some people spend money they don't have by getting loans, or using income taxes instead of paying off debt, they have that right though, and you know there are people like that. Even Grant Peterson at Rivendell says that the Atlantis he sells is 98% of the bike that his much more expensive Rivendell branded bike is, is a 2% gain worth another $2,000 or more? To some maybe, but for most not.

Your rant about explaining layup schedule of Pryde made no sense in the discussion at hand that either he or myself was saying. I didn't put down Pryde bikes at all, and even said for the OP to buy one if his heart is settled on it, but we were simply pointing out that there are options one can buy that will be about 98% of the bike that the expensive CF bikes are for less money...just like the Atlantis vs the Rivendell that I mentioned concerning Grants comments, neither of those two bikes are junk nor did Grant ever say the Atlantis was junk, but for the money the Atlantis is the better buy of the two, and that's all we are saying that there are better buys even though some will opt for the Rivendell regardless of price just as there will be some that will opt for the Pryde regardless of price.


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## orange_julius (Jan 24, 2003)

froze said:


> Thanks for the reply, it's always good to hear from someone who knows about the particular subject being preached on. There is some controversy about whether or not the Pina is one of the most crash resistant frame/fork on the market. It wasn't my opinion, but rather information gleamed from other sources including CC but other places and a person who does stunt riding on one. Of course CC wants to sell a bike, but they sell lots of different brands so why say one is more crash resistant then all the others they sell? Wouldn't that piss some of their other bike manufactures they sell off?


Maybe CC makes more margins on Pinarello than on other brands? Or maybe because Pinarello has spent a lot on marketing their "special brew carbon fiber yada-yada" that CC could leverage on? 

Maybe because the stunt rider happened to have a Pinarello around, not a Giant or a Calfee or a Cannondale? 

These are all specious singular observations. 



> So back to my question, the Neilpride, while designed by great engineers in the USA is still made in Asia, just as the Pina is also designed by great engineers in Italy but also made in Asia. But you are familiar with both, what is your opinion on this crash resistance nonsense?


I think you are over-simplifying how intellectual property and manufacturing techniques are developed. It's not a one-way street from "US-based designers" (or "Euro-based designers") to "Asia-based manufacturers." In most cases, the manufacturers know a lot more about carbon manufacturing and design than the US-based designers do. The designers may contribute only sketches, geometry specs, and then feedback about "this frame is too stiff" or "the rear end is chattery on chip seal roads", and it's the manufacturers who then translate such abstract ideas into a product. Or better, they push it off to marketing and they write beautiful ideas on how their frame is really intended for hard-ass professionals and wannabe professionals, that's why it is very very stiff and efficient :-D.


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## froze (Sep 15, 2002)

orange_julius said:


> Maybe CC makes more margins on Pinarello than on other brands? Or maybe because Pinarello has spent a lot on marketing their "special brew carbon fiber yada-yada" that CC could leverage on?
> 
> Maybe because the stunt rider happened to have a Pinarello around, not a Giant or a Calfee or a Cannondale?
> 
> ...



In one of the videos I watched of that stunt guy he says he would only do stunts like that on a Pina because Pina is the only road bike that can withstand it...of course he may be getting paid to sponsor Pina.

While I appreciate you taking the time to try to answer my question, the problem is the question was asked of CliveDS who has inside experience about the question asked, and the info you provided didn't answer my question! 

I'm still hoping CliveDS will respond.


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## stevesbike (Jun 3, 2002)

marketing a frame in terms of crash resistance is gimmicky, at least for road frames, which aren't expected to experience the impacts of a mtb frame. I've crashed a frame at 40+ mph, causing $50k in hospital bills and not a scratch to the frame. Then there's this Pinarello that broke in two from what the rider describes as a small impact. Bikes were meant - and designed - to be ridden, not crashed...


View attachment 274840


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## J24 (Oct 8, 2003)

CliveDS said:


> Watch out because I sell both Pinarello and NeilPryde so anything I say might be an attempt to sell a bike. I just had to chime in on this one because it hurts to see so much miss-information.
> 
> - Response to J24 - "anyone can source generic frames from China" yes 100% true but that does not make it true in the case of NeilPryde. Quite the opposite in fact, NeilPryde use the worlds best and most expensive engineers to develop the frames. More so than most other brands.
> View attachment 274745


Not to hurt your feelings, but based on my experience with NP sails, they're last on my list for quality and fitness for the purpose intended.


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## froze (Sep 15, 2002)

stevesbike said:


> marketing a frame in terms of crash resistance is gimmicky, at least for road frames, which aren't expected to experience the impacts of a mtb frame. I've crashed a frame at 40+ mph, causing $50k in hospital bills and not a scratch to the frame. Then there's this Pinarello that broke in two from what the rider describes as a small impact. Bikes were meant - and designed - to be ridden, not crashed...
> 
> 
> View attachment 274840


Small impact? This video shows more then just a small impact, and a series of impacts that does nothing to the bike: Martyn Ashton - Road Bike Party - YouTube The only thing I really hate about that video...is that I don't have those riding skills!!!


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## NWS Alpine (Mar 16, 2012)

froze said:


> Small impact? This video shows more then just a small impact, and a series of impacts that does nothing to the bike: Martyn Ashton - Road Bike Party - YouTube The only thing I really hate about that video...is that I don't have those riding skills!!!


Go grab any road bike in the shop and you can do the same. Hell fairwheel bikes did a video and grabbed some NeilPryde frames. Enve wheels carbon wheels too. NeilPryde Alize Carbon Frame Road Bike Stunts by Fair Wheel Bikes - YouTube


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## froze (Sep 15, 2002)

NWS Alpine said:


> Go grab any road bike in the shop and you can do the same. Hell fairwheel bikes did a video and grabbed some NeilPryde frames. Enve wheels carbon wheels too. NeilPryde Alize Carbon Frame Road Bike Stunts by Fair Wheel Bikes - YouTube


Neat video, but he never did the harder impact stunts that the other video was showing Ashton doing, however I did see today Ashton was filmed once on a CF Raleigh, but again his stunts on that one were limited in jumping, but his comment about only using Pina's is not valid now.

All of this still begs questions: Why do you have stunt riders doing stuff like that yet we get many reports of broken CF bikes? Why is that and LBS owner I know is about my age even admits that he has seen a lot more aluminum and carbon fiber failures then he ever seen steel failures? I even talked to him today about all of this here and if CF is so great why doesn't he ride them. Basically he said it comes down to sudden frame failure that can have devastating effects on the rider. And why are there not any touring bikes?

Sure steel bikes have failed, this is common knowledge but the number of steel frames vs CF frames the world is about 1000 to 1!! But my LBS owner friend even admits that some steel bikes today are trying to hard to get weight down and thus ultralight steel frames are too thin walled and he said he would never buy one of those either. He has plenty of old steel bikes, but his newer ones are all Titanium, which is why I'm not going to get the Pinarello from CC but get the Motobecane Titanium bike from BD instead...when I get employed of course.

But even Trek says some strange things about CF: "Carbon has proven its performance pedigree. However, carbon fiber has unique qualities. Unlike metal parts, carbon fiber parts that have been damaged usually do not bend, bulge or deform; they break. A damaged carbon part may appear normal at a quick glance, but could suddenly fail without warning. Carbon forks, handlebars and stems are most critical."

Keep in mind too that CF is notch-sensitive or damage-concealing so damage a lot of times is missed by inspections. Most LBS's are suggesting that if you have frontal crash to replace the fork regardless if you see damage or not. At least with steel
you can see any damage and thus know if you need to replace it.

What's interesting is this web site whose author gives valid reasons to have and use CF, but don't stop there, read the comments, almost all the comments are in regards to CF failures they've had! Carbon Bicycle Forks: Cautions, Facts and Misconceptions | IsolateCyclist

Before any of you start throwing hand grenades at me, this stuff is just all opinions, I don't think neither is right or wrong because it depends on what you're looking for in a bike. Some want the newest technology money can buy regardless of complications or cost, some want looks, some want lightest weight, some want durability, etc, etc. It just so happens I lean towards durability, I like to keep my bikes forever without having a question about the pot hole I hit may have damaged my CF fork.


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## stevesbike (Jun 3, 2002)

the stunt video stuff is a red herring. The lands are controlled and the rider absorbs much of the impact with their legs, and the impacts are in line with the designed strength of the frame. Carbon is anisotropic and frames are designed to take advantage of this property - impact failures are often along a dimension that is not encountered in normal riding, as when the front end of a frame impacts an object. That's one reason why you see frame failures like the pic I uploaded.

Durability has far more to do with fatigue life, and this is where CF excels. I'm far more concerned about an aluminum part failing without ever experiencing a large force due to its fatigue properties. Stems in particular. I have an early Look carbon frame circe 1990 and it's still going strong (though I don't ride it much anymore).


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## froze (Sep 15, 2002)

stevesbike said:


> the stunt video stuff is a red herring. The lands are controlled and the rider absorbs much of the impact with their legs, and the impacts are in line with the designed strength of the frame. Carbon is anisotropic and frames are designed to take advantage of this property - impact failures are often along a dimension that is not encountered in normal riding, as when the front end of a frame impacts an object. That's one reason why you see frame failures like the pic I uploaded.
> 
> Durability has far more to do with fatigue life, and this is where CF excels. I'm far more concerned about an aluminum part failing without ever experiencing a large force due to its fatigue properties. Stems in particular. I have an early Look carbon frame circe 1990 and it's still going strong (though I don't ride it much anymore).


I agree with what you said. I had an aluminum bike and though it didn't fail suddenly it did develop a crack on the head tube by the headset for no known reason, I had no reason that I could find that would have caused such a crack. After that I swore off of aluminum bikes. The bike manufacture would do nothing saying it was a stress crack and not a manufacture defect. I also had a friend who was about 240 pounds and he broke 2 Vitus bikes with a 1 year period, then switched to Klien and broke one of those in a 3 year period, then he went with Cannondale due to all their promises, he broke 3 of those over about a 10 year period. He got tired of breaking frames and needed a frame strong enough to handle him and gear for touring so he ordered a custom Rivendell, Grant listened to his tale and had a bike built for him, that was 10 years or so ago and he still is riding it.

For some of people here 240 pounds is nothing, but this guy was very strong, living in California and going into the mountains to ride, I think he over stressed the frames down at the bottom bracket since all the bikes that I know of failed there.


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## Charlie the Unicorn (Jan 8, 2013)

Seems as if there are few to no bura sl's in size small in the US and it sounds as if they won't be here until March. That sucks.


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## biker58life (Aug 7, 2009)

*I have one.*



Charlie the Unicorn said:


> Anyone here own a neilpryde? I've heard good things about them and I'm considering a bura sl.


I just got my NielPryde Bura SL. Waited for a while in size medium. Arrived at LBS just last week. It's a mechanical (already have 2 bikes with Di2) D/A9000, still waiting for the 9000 pedals, NielPryde Lightweight (German made with NP decal) wheels, 2 Controltech water bottle cages.

It just got built up 3 days ago now using D/A 7800 pedals. Weigh in at 14.85 lb.

A lot of bike makers claim they are smooth and stiff but I see things like this. The bike either start with a too stiff frame or a too smooth frame and they try to come in to the middle. Some people like smooth feel and others like stiff feel. As bike tech marches forward, the stiff/smooth bar gets raised all the time. 

For me, the stiffest thing I ever ridden is the Scott Addict. That thing chatters quite a bit over the rough stuff and handling is twitchy. great power transfer but you pay for it in comfort. 

The smoothest thing I ever ridden is the Colnago President. It's like a cruiser Cadillac floating a bit off the ground. Love the smoothness but you pay for it in uphill power efficiency or lack thereof.

On a scale of 1 to 10, 1 is wet noodle soft and 10 and kidney bruising stiff and 5 is the "perfect" mix. I feel the NP Bura Sl is about 7.85, Scott Addict is about 9. A punishing aluminum frame will be a 10.

I also must clarify. I like my frame on the stiff side. To me, the "perfect" (I put "" because I think it's different for everyone) is at about 7.8. At 7.8, you will have all day comfort and efficiency to match. However, the extra 0.05 on the stiffer side is due to the lightness of the bike. If the Bura is heavier, then the bike will be at 7.8.

Light bikes usually handle twitchy especially at high speed. Not the Bura. I hit 32 mph on my local down hill and it feels solid. Not lazy-solid like a couch but more like a Raphael Nadal kind of nimble solid. 

Personally, I frigging LOVE it! The whole thing is just so delicious. Climbing feel is one of anger, the harder you pedal the angrier the whole thing gets, then you pedal even harder...who needs drugs? This bike gives you all the high you can want.

The bike looks awesome too. No BS. No dumb bling. All function. It's like Ronda Rousey (Google her, wow!), if it doesn't help you kick butt, you don't need it. 

I'm on a business trip right now. I never had this feeling before, missing a bicycle, but I miss my Bura. Can't wait to get back home, jump on it and go all out!


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## Enoch562 (May 13, 2010)

So what was the original post about??? Oh yea, Neil Pryde Bikes.

FWIW, I picked up a used Diablo Frame. I got 3 rides (10 hours) on it. So far, so good. I'm coming off a 2011 Rouubaix. So far, I'm really happy with the geometry, It is quite a bit stiffer than my Speshy, but it seems to handle better to me. I do alot of standing and climbing and it seems to do well there. Pounding it out on the flats has been good for me since I seem to sit over the bb better than Specialized. It is definately a race bike, not a recreation bike. My 56 frame with Ultegra came in 15.8 with pedals, ready to ride. If they have improved the ride quality with the Bura, than you will have a very nice bike. Mandatory garage door pics...


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## Charlie the Unicorn (Jan 8, 2013)

J24 said:


> Not to hurt your feelings, but based on my experience with NP sails, they're last on my list for quality and fitness for the purpose intended.



I could care less about their sails. I finally got a bura sl in my size and I've been impressed. I can't/won't give one of those ridiculous "bicycling magazine" type reviews, which seem to say the same thing about every bike, but I can say the lower bottom bracket makes for a much more stable bike. I had a scott addict a few years ago and it was twitchy. This thing weighs less than the addict (by about 50g) but it's a much more stable bike, especially while descending and cornering, although I have to make sure I have the inside pedal up if I'm leaning the bike. 

As for the whole stiff/smooth frame thingy, I found the addict a much more refined ride than the scott cr1sl and I had an aluminum frame before that so I can't really recall that far back.

The NP also has a 27.2 post as opposed to the 31.6 on the scott, which may or may not contribute to how stiff the frame feels. 

I guess the best thing I can say about it is I did a 100+ mile ride on it a few weeks ago and I didn't really think about the bike or what it would do. I was comfortable on it and it did everything I needed it to, I didn't feel as if it was lacking in any way.


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## Rickard Laufer (Jan 1, 2013)

I was previously sold on aero bikes, untill i finally got it through and figured out more of sizing and what would fit me best. Now i have Cervelo R5 2013/ R5 VWD 2012 , Parlee Z5 Sli as my top contenders, but reading more of Bura SL i have a lot of interest in this bike to.
Would be a blast to test ride all of them. I find all three with similar reach (close to 38.5cm) but stack is 57.4 (Bura SL size L), 58 (R5 size 56) and 58.8 (Z5 Sli size ML/tall) for similar sizes. I hope i'll find means to buy a frame/fork and seatpost somehow. I think Parlee and Cervelo would cost almost same over here, but Bura SL would be slightly cheaper.


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## gumbygould (May 14, 2013)

*Neil Pryde Bikes are amazing!*

Hi Charlie,
I have been riding the Neil Pryde Alize for the last 18months and it's the best bike i have ridden.
I have owned $10,000 plus bikes - LOOK, Colnago, Tommasini etc and the Alize is lighter, more responsive, far better aeroodynamics and certainlt stiffer. I had a play with the Bura SL and it's an improvement again so I'm saving my pennies.
The Bkes are not chinese ripoffs as another post says.They are uniquely designed by Neil Pryde. 
Neil Pryde have been making the words best windsurfing gear for many years and they have taken their knowledge of carbon and wind and applied it to bikes. 
I hope this helps, Cheers John 




Charlie the Unicorn said:


> Anyone here own a neilpryde? I've heard good things about them and I'm considering a bura sl.


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## Enoch562 (May 13, 2010)

I'm well past the honeymoon stage on this bike. If for some reason mine was damaged, I would buy another one just like it or save my pennies for a Bura SL. Best bike I have every had.


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## seemana (Jul 1, 2009)

I've got a Diablo frameset size large that I'm going to be getting rid of to fund a new disc commuter. There's some cosmetic stuff going on, so it would be a pretty good deal. If there is any interest, I will put it in the classifieds...was originally going to go the eBay route.

I've enjoyed the bike...had it about 2 years. It's a stiff frame, but a set of 25s did a lot to smooth it out. No problems putting a long day in on it with those.


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## biker58life (Aug 7, 2009)

*update: a few months with my NP Bura SL*



biker58life said:


> I just got my NielPryde Bura SL. Waited for a while in size medium. Arrived at LBS just last week. It's a mechanical (already have 2 bikes with Di2) D/A9000, still waiting for the 9000 pedals, NielPryde Lightweight (German made with NP decal) wheels, 2 Controltech water bottle cages.
> 
> It just got built up 3 days ago now using D/A 7800 pedals. Weigh in at 14.85 lb.
> 
> ...




Ok, after about 2 months riding my NP Bura SL, I am a true believer!

I can go on and on and on but let me just put one thing out there...I have D/A 9000 compact crank right now and I need more teeth! My other 2 bikes are fine with their compact cranks but the Bura is just too FAST! Mayne not the standard crank but at least the 36 for the small ring.

I am not much lighter than when I first got the Bura and I do switch between my 3 bicycles when I go out to ride with my friends but the latest ride on the Bura, I barely used the small ring. Only on the long hills hitting 8% grade did I really need to use the small ring.

I have ridden the same route with my other bikes (Colnago C59, Di2, Mavic carbon Ultimate) and the small ring gets used all the time.

2 of my friend have test ridden my Bura (with their kids as hostage so they will come back with my bike) and they now are working out the details on their own Bura's. Both of them are strong riders with myriad of bicycles in the garage. I have to becareful of who to let test ride because that's 2 out of 2.

One thing I really enjoy about the Bura is the exclusivity; no one else has one. I am always the center of attention in any group rides. I better enjoy the exclusivity while I have it because this secret is not going to stay a secret much longer.

What a great bike!

Shhhhhh....


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## gumbygould (May 14, 2013)

2 great reviews of the Bura, I liked Biker58life so much i have reposted it on the Neil Pryde Bikes Australia facebook page. You capture the emotion, I am riding the NP Alize and love it and you have made me think of upgrading an already great bike..


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## Charlie the Unicorn (Jan 8, 2013)

Even though this went wayyyyyyyyyyyyy off topic for awhile, I ended up w/ my bura sl. I love this bike. It is just incredible. Does everything I want it to and then some. I won't bother mentioning the weight or we'll go off topic again...

About time to post a pic--


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## biker58life (Aug 7, 2009)

View attachment 284477


biker58life said:


> Ok, after about 2 months riding my NP Bura SL, I am a true believer!
> 
> I can go on and on and on but let me just put one thing out there...I have D/A 9000 compact crank right now and I need more teeth! My other 2 bikes are fine with their compact cranks but the Bura is just too FAST! Mayne not the standard crank but at least the 36 for the small ring.
> 
> ...


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## NWS Alpine (Mar 16, 2012)

I ended up getting an Alize. It was too nice to ignore. I love this bike. It has some minor upgrades since this pic. It's very light and aero. Ride is a dream.


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## biker58life (Aug 7, 2009)

NWS Alpine said:


> I ended up getting an Alize. It was too nice to ignore. I love this bike. It has some minor upgrades since this pic. It's very light and aero. Ride is a dream.


WOW! That's a HOT bike! :thumbsup:


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## RichardT (Dec 12, 2010)

Charlie the Unicorn said:


> Even though this went wayyyyyyyyyyyyy off topic for awhile, I ended up w/ my bura sl. I love this bike. It is just incredible. Does everything I want it to and then some. I won't bother mentioning the weight or we'll go off topic again...
> 
> About time to post a pic--


Beautiful bike. I want one.


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## biker58life (Aug 7, 2009)

*Wow!*



Charlie the Unicorn said:


> Even though this went wayyyyyyyyyyyyy off topic for awhile, I ended up w/ my bura sl. I love this bike. It is just incredible. Does everything I want it to and then some. I won't bother mentioning the weight or we'll go off topic again...
> 
> About time to post a pic--


Stunning ride!!! :thumbsup:

What kind of crank is that, please?


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## Keith (May 18, 2004)

Here's a photo of my Neil Pryde Alize complete with Campy Super Record and Bullet Ultra wheelset. She is not a generic jelly mold knock-off that some 'informed' people seem to think Neil Pryde bikes are. This kiddie was developed in conjunction with BMW North America but made in Taiwan / China, just like 90% of Pinarello, Colnago, Fondriest, Trek, Cannondale; until you get to a price point where you will find it made by hand in it's country of origin.

The bike itself ... very stable, very aero and not an ounce lost in forward propulsion.

Cheers

Keith


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## biker58life (Aug 7, 2009)

*Bura SL pic*



Charlie the Unicorn said:


> Anyone here own a neilpryde? I've heard good things about them and I'm considering a bura sl.


I tried to post picture but it didn't work. Hope this one will work.


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## froze (Sep 15, 2002)

Keith said:


> View attachment 285662
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Nice bike, but that statement is nonsense, all bikes suffer from lost of forward watt propulsion to the tune of at LEAST a 15% loss. All of this loss of power is not all frame, the frame is only part of the lost, the rest is drivetrain, wheels (including wheel components), crank and pedals. 

By the way in the aero department, an aero bike vs a non aero bike only suffers about 2 to 4% loss.


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## bikewriter (Sep 2, 2002)

Some on sale at artscyclery.com and there was a 20% off coupon code of facebook20.


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## jurtu (Apr 7, 2009)

*Neil Pryde Bura SL 2013 51CM*

They are GREAT bikes. Buy mine. I have a 2013 Bura SL posted here and on CraigsList

2013 Neil Pryde BuraSL 51cm - RoadBikeREVIEW.Com

I have since lowered the price to $3.300.00 and upgraded the deal with a virtually new 2013 11sp cassette 22mm wide, blacked out Rolf Elan wheel set. Bike weighs 13.55 lbs, complete WITH PEDALS and comes with Look Keo Carbon Ti pedals.

Please feel free to contact me at 949-233-2326 or e-mail


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