# Bike Fitting



## metro424 (Sep 26, 2012)

Hey All,

I currently have a 54cm Secteur and was wondering what would be the equivalent frame size for this bike....
http://www.competitivecyclist.com/za/CCY?PAGE=PRODUCT&OPTION=LOAD_PRODUCT_BY_ID&PRODUCT.ID=32174

The price is right and its dropped 100 dollars from like a week ago. It looks like I need either a medium or or maybe small?

The Secteur geo is here
http://www.specialized.com/us/en/bikes/road/secteur/secteurcompact#geometry

Thanks for the help!


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## PJ352 (Dec 5, 2007)

Assuming the Secteur is a good fit for you and you're running a moderate length stem, with a frame reach of 385mm's, the small Ridley is closest to your Secteur (at 380mm's). Trouble is, because of the discrepancy in head tube lengths, using a similar stem angle/ spacer configuration, you'll add ~2cm's of drop with the small Ridley. 

All else being equal in stem angle/spacer setup, to make up for that you'd have to go with a medium Ridley, which would _add_ ~1cm to bar height. Since going to the medium also adds ~1cm of reach, it may not be an ideal choice.

Bottom line, you're comparing two bikes with enough differences in geo to require that you take a close look at your stem length/ angle/ spacer setup and estimate the changes required to most closely match your current setup to the Ridley. So, not such a straightforward answer to your question. 

If you post this info, we can get close on how you'd set up the small Ridley.


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## metro424 (Sep 26, 2012)

I haven't changed anything out in regards to stem or spacers on the Secteur so the factory stem is 105 mm and I believe that the spacers under the stem run in the 40mm range. I will measure the spacers early tomorrow. 

I understand that the Ridley has a racier geometry, which is something I am looking for to compliment the endurance geometry of the Secteur. I am 5'9" with a 31.25 inch inseam and feel perfectly comfortable on the Secteur and could likely remove some of the spacers if I was so inclined.

So my options would be to run a longer stem on the Small or run something like a 90mm stem on the Medium?


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## PJ352 (Dec 5, 2007)

metro424 said:


> I haven't changed anything out in regards to stem or spacers on the Secteur so the factory stem is 105 mm and I believe that the spacers under the stem run in the 40mm range. I will measure the spacers early tomorrow.
> 
> I understand that the Ridley has a racier geometry, which is something I am looking for to compliment the endurance geometry of the Secteur. I am 5'9" with a 31.25 inch inseam and feel perfectly comfortable on the Secteur and could likely remove some of the spacers if I was so inclined.
> 
> So my options would be to run a longer stem on the Small or run something like a 90mm stem on the Medium?


I have a feeling that 105mm stem length Specialized lists is a misprint, but you could measure it (or look for markings) to verify. It's likely a 100 or 110mm length.

The OE conical spacer is 20mm's and 20mm's of spacers are supplied, totaling 40mm's. They don't say, but Specialized generally uses ~-7or -8 degree stem angles. I'm assuming yours is 'flipped down'. Keep in mind that you'll need ~2cm's more to roughly equal your current saddle to bar drop on the small Ridley. That likely means employing a flipped up stem because you can't add more spacers. 

To answer your question, I'd guess you'd run about the same stem length on the small Ridely because even though reach is slightly longer, you'll shorten it 'some' by raising the bars. The medium Ridley would require ~1cm shorter stem - my guess is either a 90 or 100mm, depending on what you're now running.

FWIW, your proportioned slightly shorter legs/ longer torso.


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## metro424 (Sep 26, 2012)

PJ352 said:


> I have a feeling that 105mm stem length Specialized lists is a misprint, but you could measure it (or look for markings) to verify. It's likely a 100 or 110mm length.
> 
> The OE conical spacer is 20mm's and 20mm's of spacers are supplied, totaling 40mm's. They don't say, but Specialized generally uses ~-7or -8 degree stem angles. I'm assuming yours is 'flipped down'. Keep in mind that you'll need ~2cm's more to roughly equal your current saddle to bar drop on the small Ridley. That likely means employing a flipped up stem because you can't add more spacers.
> 
> ...


Hmm, 

It seems that I am in between the two sizes in regards to fit. I am thinking that a medium ridley with a shorter stem would be better than a small ridley with a shorter stem and possibly a pushed back saddle. 

Thoughts?


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## PJ352 (Dec 5, 2007)

metro424 said:


> Hmm,
> 
> It seems that I am in between the two sizes in regards to fit. I am thinking that a medium ridley with a shorter stem would be better than a small ridley with a shorter stem and possibly a pushed back saddle.
> 
> Thoughts?


In the Ridley I suspect you are between sizes - more with drop than reach. 

The direction you go would depend on where you place your priority between the two, compromising on the other. If you can tolerate a little more drop, the small is closer in reach to your current bike and (FWIW) might better accommodate your inseam length (stand over).

Conversely, if you don't want to chance the increased drop (or go with a flipped up stem on the small), the medium is closer in drop (to your current bike), but would require a shorter stem. Stand over may be tight, so if it matters to you, consider contacting the seller for more info.

JM (unsolicited) opinion; I don't care for Ridley's geo, finding the gaps between sizes too large, so you're not alone in this quandary. That said, I'd advise caution on jumping on a seemingly great deal and having to live with less than optimal geo. 

Lastly, I suspect they're equipping the bike with previous gen Tiagra (9 speed), so while it may be a _good_ deal, IMO it's not a _great _deal.


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## PJ352 (Dec 5, 2007)

Since the Secteur's geo suites you but you're looking for something more racy, you may want to consider a late model, used Allez. A 54 will pretty near match your fit on the Secteur and with both a shorter head tube and shorter wheelbase, you'll get your racy geo.

In the interim, you may want to pull 1cm of spacers out of your Secteur and see if a more aero riding position is for you. A quick, easy and free test!


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## metro424 (Sep 26, 2012)

That is a good point about the possibility of the bike being a 9 speed, which is a deal breaker for me. It has a kmc x10 chain which is the only thing that I could find relating to 10 speed. I guess I will have to wait to see when they get back to me about the bike before I can make a decision. Provided it is a 10 speed tiagra equipped bike, it's a good deal. I think I have decided on the small.

In the meantime I will pull out a spacer from the secteur and see for how it affects my comfort


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## PJ352 (Dec 5, 2007)

metro424 said:


> That is a good point about the possibility of the bike being a 9 speed, which is a deal breaker for me. It has a kmc x10 chain which is the only thing that I could find relating to 10 speed. I guess I will have to wait to see when they get back to me about the bike before I can make a decision. Provided it is a 10 speed tiagra equipped bike, it's a good deal. I think I have decided on the small.
> 
> In the meantime I will pull out a spacer from the secteur and see for how it affects my comfort


Good catch on the KMC x10 chain. They'll perform fine on 9 speed drivetrains, so it's not a given that the bike is 10 speed, but a good indicator. 

Because I put a priority on getting f/r weight distribution right, I avoid running both long(ish) or short(ish) stems, so considering what I know about your situation, I'd opt for the small as well.

IIRC, the Secteur is configured with a 20mm conical cone 2-5mm spacers and a 10mm spacer. Since you'll have to bridge a gap of ~2cm's, you may want to remove the equivalent of 1cm of spacers - half the amount - then do a few rides assessing fit and feel. 

Pls let us know what customer support has to offer re: the Ridley.


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## rosskings (Nov 15, 2012)

yeah, i think so, That is a good point about the possibility of the bike being a 9 speed, which is a deal breaker for me. It has a kmc x10 chain which is the only thing that I could find relating to 10 speed. ,thanks for your sharing,


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## metro424 (Sep 26, 2012)

Well, I just spoke to one of the online representatives at realcyclist.com. I had him verify that the bike is indeed a 10 speed bike. That pretty much solidifies my decision to buy the bike.

The online inventory is showing 43 small bikes and 57 mediums. I will let y'all know how it goes when it comes in next weekish.

edit: He also said that competitivecyclist/realcyclist Ridley Icarus bikes are the same bike since they are sister companies.


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## PJ352 (Dec 5, 2007)

metro424 said:


> Well, I just spoke to one of the online representatives at realcyclist.com. I had him verify that the bike is indeed a 10 speed bike. That pretty much solidifies my decision to buy the bike.
> 
> The online inventory is showing 43 small bikes and 57 mediums. I will let y'all know how it goes when it comes in next weekish.
> 
> edit: He also said that competitivecyclist/realcyclist Ridley Icarus bikes are the same bike since they are sister companies.


That's a definite plus. I've ridden Tiagra 4600 and it is indeed on a par with Shimano's previous gen 105. 

Whichever size you opt for, because the geo differs from your Secteur, I suggest considering a bike fit at your LBS. If/ when you do, bring along the Secteur for comparison purposes. 

Keep us apprised of your progress. I know there are a number of members in similar situations that watch threads like this one.


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## metro424 (Sep 26, 2012)

I just submitted my order for a small, $650 ,shipped, unconditional return policy. I don't expect that I will be using their return policy, but it is nice to have that as a safety to fall back on when buying a bike.

My LBS(Carolina Triathalon) does offer a fairly comprehensive bike fit that takes roughly 1-2 hours to complete which I have been meaning to do with the Secteur that I purchased from them. Other than a moderate amount of saddle soreness from the stock saddle I have been very pleased with the stock fit(no setback in the saddle, standard spacers and stem in the positive position, not slammed)

Im pretty excited, while the Icarus is not a full Tiagra groupset, I think it will give me a good starting point to upgrade to higher end 10 speed components as they wear out. The components are a few steps higher than the Shimano 2300 components that came stock on my Secteur. 

I will definitely keep this thread updated when the bike comes in and I set it up.

PJ, thank you for your help!


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## PJ352 (Dec 5, 2007)

metro424 said:


> I just submitted my order for a small, $650 ,shipped, unconditional return policy. I don't expect that I will be using their return policy, but it is nice to have that as a safety to fall back on when buying a bike.
> 
> My LBS(Carolina Triathalon) does offer a fairly comprehensive bike fit that takes roughly 1-2 hours to complete which I have been meaning to do with the Secteur that I purchased from them. Other than a moderate amount of saddle soreness from the stock saddle I have been very pleased with the stock fit(no setback in the saddle, standard spacers and stem in the positive position, not slammed)
> 
> ...


Not a problem. I hope what I've offered helped and this all works out for you. I think it will, but (as you say) the return policy is a nice fall back, just in case....

If by comprehensive fit you mean a _pro_ fit, I'd pass for the time being. A standard LBS fitting will suffice, and the Ridley being new to you, your fit will evolve some as you build saddle time. OTOH, if your LBS's _standard_ fitting is 1-2 hours, then by all means avail yourself of it. They'll likely do those tweaks for no or a low charge, when needed. 

Lucky you, being in the Carolina's. I'm about 12+ hours north of you, so this 53 degree day towards the end of November is a bonus bike day for me!!


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## metro424 (Sep 26, 2012)

Got the Ridley Icarus today, extremely excited! Shipped Monday and delivered Friday makes me quite happy.

A couple words on Competitive Cyclist, the bike arrived well packed and securely fashioned in the box. I was definitely a bit apprehensive about buying a bike online, sight unseen and un-ridden. However, it seems that those fears were unfounded. All I had to do was cut the zip ties install the wheels and position the handlebar. A checklist is included which has everything that they did to assemble the bike as well as the torque specs that they used for particular bolts and serial numbers for frame and fork. They definitely took some time to assemble the bike properly. I am particularly impressed that they took this much time for a low end bike.

And the bike, I dont think I can post pictures until I have 10 posts but the bike is pretty darn great for the price I paid. I got conflicting answers from CC about whether or not this bike was a 10 speed, one email said that it was a 9 speed but every different person that I spoke to via online chat said that it was a 10 speed bike. The bike is indeed Tiagra 10 speed shifters f/r derailleur and cassette. The rest of the parts are FSA/ or house brand (4za i think). 

I took it for a quick 10 min ride to test the shifting quality and it is spot on out of the box. Front ring shifts quickly and crisply, the rear is nice and quiet with a small amount of chain rub only when its on the small front ring and big rear. Braking is acceptable, possibly a bit better than the stock brakes on the Sectuer, fairly comparable.

My sectuer has just under 1000 miles on it and the shifting difference in these two bikes is night and day. The sectuer having 2300 components is not bad by any means and it is properly adjusted but between it and the new Tiagra components on the ridley there really is no comparison. I can only imagine how dura ace and ultegra components must feel like.

One issue: I haven't measured the stem but it looks like Ridley uses a fairly long stem, >100-110cm that is on my sectuer and has me stretched out just a little bit more than I am used to. I pulled the seat forward just a little bit until I decide on a new stem length.


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## PJ352 (Dec 5, 2007)

metro424 said:


> Got the Ridley Icarus today, extremely excited! Shipped Monday and delivered Friday makes me quite happy.
> 
> A couple words on Competitive Cyclist, the bike arrived well packed and securely fashioned in the box. I was definitely a bit apprehensive about buying a bike online, sight unseen and un-ridden. However, it seems that those fears were unfounded. All I had to do was cut the zip ties install the wheels and position the handlebar. A checklist is included which has everything that they did to assemble the bike as well as the torque specs that they used for particular bolts and serial numbers for frame and fork. They definitely took some time to assemble the bike properly. I am particularly impressed that they took this much time for a low end bike.
> 
> ...


First off, congrats on getting your new bike. From your description, it appears the bike was assembled/ tuned with care.

Re: the first impressions of 10 speed Tiagra and how it may compare with the higher end Shimano groupsets, I'll offer that my (previous gen) 105 bike actually shifts slightly better than my Ultegra bike. I've test ridden the new Tiagra a couple of times now and I think it performs on a par with my 105. Point being, as with many products, there are diminishing returns as you climb the ladder, so you aren't missing much in the areas of refinement/ performance with your Tiagra groupset. 

Re: brake performance, invest in Koolstop Salmon brake pads and you'll be impressed with the performance increase. They're cheap, so install them on both bikes. :wink5:

Amazon.com: Kool-Stop Shimano Dura-Ace/Ultegra Road Bicycle Brake Pad Inserts - Pair: Sports & Outdoors

It's literally not the correct way to measure a stem, but if the angle isn't too great you can measure from center of top cap bolt to center of bars. But rather than futz with fit trying to get it right, I still suggest opting for a standard fitting at your LBS. Reach/ drop, stem length/ angle (among other fit parameters) will all get sorted out in the process.


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## medicnman (Dec 3, 2012)

I can offer no more suggestions than those here. I'm in a similar predicament with geometry selection.


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## aznufo (Dec 7, 2012)

how's the bike riding? i'm also 5'9 (without shoes on) or closer to 5'8.5 and also saw the 649 deal on backcountry/realcyclist/competitivecyclist, and they said they'd match the price for me, i just need to know the fit and sizing, so knowing you bought one helps quite a bit.

what are your measurements, and is your height spot on with or without shoes? i'd also prefer a more relaxed fit/geometry, but tried another ridley bike in size Medium, felt a bit stretched out and uncontrollable. what do you guys think?


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## aznufo (Dec 7, 2012)

could you tell me a bit more about your geometry n measruements and how the size is fitting in the small
i'm also debating between medium and small


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## PJ352 (Dec 5, 2007)

aznufo said:


> how's the bike riding? i'm also 5'9 (without shoes on) or closer to 5'8.5 and also saw the 649 deal on backcountry/realcyclist/competitivecyclist, and they said they'd match the price for me, i just need to know the fit and sizing, so knowing you bought one helps quite a bit.
> 
> what are your measurements, and is your height spot on with or without shoes? i'd also prefer a more relaxed fit/geometry, but tried another ridley bike in size Medium, felt a bit stretched out and uncontrollable. *what do you guys think?*


I'd advise caution on buying a bike online based on what someone around your height purchased. There are a number of factors that influence sizing/ fit considerations, like proportions, fitness/ flexibility, cycling experiences, preferences, riding styles... among others.

Best bet when buying online is to seek out a reputable fitter and pay for a standard fitting. Could run about $50, but may well save you from making a mistake and having to pay that in return shipping costs. Or worse, futzing with fit _making_ it work (which in reality, seldom does).

If you're interested in pursuing the standard fitting, post and we can provide some details on how it can be accomplished.


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## metro424 (Sep 26, 2012)

aznufo said:


> how's the bike riding? i'm also 5'9 (without shoes on) or closer to 5'8.5 and also saw the 649 deal on backcountry/realcyclist/competitivecyclist, and they said they'd match the price for me, i just need to know the fit and sizing, so knowing you bought one helps quite a bit.
> 
> what are your measurements, and is your height spot on with or without shoes? i'd also prefer a more relaxed fit/geometry, but tried another ridley bike in size Medium, felt a bit stretched out and uncontrollable. what do you guys think?


I'm 5'9.25 but I usually round down to 5'9 without shoes on. With my inseam of 31.25, there is no way I would have been able to clear the top tube of a Medium Icarus. A size small was definitely the largest I can ride comfortably. I feel that a small would likely work for you but you will probably need to swap to a shorter stem unless you are a lot more flexible than I am.

Im fairly young at 24 and at 160 lbs I'm pretty flexible so having the seat height to handlebar drop isn't a problem. My sectuer is set up with the seat and bars about even. I haven't pushed the bike past 25 miles in one sitting but its felt pretty awesome so far. 

The bike does transmit a good bit more road vibration than my Secteur but i'm not sure if that is due to a combo of the 25 mm tires on the Sectuer with a softer saddle and thicker bar tape. The ridley saddle may fit you but you might want to budget for a different one and some nicer bar tape. That being said, its not enough vibration to cause any pain or numbness.

I don't think that I would buy my first bike online without some kind of fitting, this is my second bike and even then it took quite a bit of contemplation to pick the right size. I went in knowing what effective top tube worked for me. 

All in all, Im extremely pleased with both Ridley and Competitive Cyclist and am wishing I had enough cash to afford the Ridley Orion with Rival. I try to research thoroughly any purchase before I make it and I feel that the Icarus is a very good deal.


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## metro424 (Sep 26, 2012)

If you talk to competitive cyclist/backcountry again, see if you can get them to tell you the bare frame weight. Im pretty curious as to how much it weights.


The competitive cylist fitment guide shows me at the numbers below, They aren't perfectly accurate as I measured pretty quickly but you can use these as a starting point.
The Competitive Fit (cm)
-------------------------------------------
Seat tube range c-c: 50.6 - 51.1
Seat tube range c-t: 52.1 - 52.6
Top tube length: 52.9 - 53.3
Stem Length: 10.2 - 10.8
BB-Saddle Position: 71.1 - 73.1
Saddle-Handlebar: 49.5 - 50.1
Saddle Setback: 2.9 - 3.3


The Eddy Fit (cm)
-------------------------------------------
Seat tube range c-c: 51.8 - 52.3
Seat tube range c-t: 53.3 - 53.8
Top tube length: 52.9 - 53.3
Stem Length: 9.1 - 9.7
BB-Saddle Position: 70.3 - 72.3
Saddle-Handlebar: 50.3 - 50.9
Saddle Setback: 4.1 - 4.5


The French Fit (cm)
-------------------------------------------
Seat tube range c-c: 53.5 - 54.0
Seat tube range c-t: 55.0 - 55.5
Top tube length: 54.1 - 54.5
Stem Length: 9.3 - 9.9
BB-Saddle Position: 68.6 - 70.6
Saddle-Handlebar: 52.0 - 52.6
Saddle Setback: 3.6 - 4.0


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## aznufo (Dec 7, 2012)

i should be ordering soon, i did go into a local bike store today and tried on a couple smalls and they were much better in fit than the mediums for ridley
thank you, so glad someone around my size bought the same bike i wanted, which isn't easy to scour around the internet, it's actually pretty hard to measure myself to use the fitment calculators online, holding tape measures and what not to my own face arms, etc. ahaha
i will lkeep you updated asto when i order and when i chat with them again.


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## aznufo (Dec 7, 2012)

also, if you use fatwallet/activejunky/cleansnipe, you get cash back from 10-15% when ordering from backcountry.com/and other bike sites online, hopefully you used it, as you get the cashback after a month or so, either to your credit card/cheque, or even to your paypal account , really sweet deal


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## metro424 (Sep 26, 2012)

Yeah, I was surprised that I really couldn't find any information about the Icarus online, seems Ridley does quite a bit in the cyclocross scene. But other then that you don't hear much about them, its a great bike though.

Be prepared to tinker with the barrel adjusters, I just had to adjust my front and rear since the cables have stretched after about 100 miles.


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## aznufo (Dec 7, 2012)

yeah, i looked all over for it, seems like they had way more about the 105/sls icarus's
is there something about the quality of the cables that may have affected that?

also, did you get achance to use one of the cashback sites? super good deal, bike would come out to about 545 with unlimited return policy!


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## metro424 (Sep 26, 2012)

The cable quality is fine but as the cables break in they stretch a bit and that changes some of the shift characteristics . My front rubbed a little after about 100 miles and the back was a slow to shift from small to large. It's really easy to fix a couple 1/8ths of a turn on the barrel adjusters or its also a quick tune up at a LBS.


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