# Why exactly does Campagnolo USA even exist?



## Fignon's Barber

Just received a defective set of neutron ultra wheels ( freehub issue, a topic for another thread). To backtrack, I have been a devoted Campagnolo loyalist since 1988. NEVER a shimano product. 
I called Campy USA to see if I could remedy the defective wheel without sending the wheel back. When I spoke with them, I was open and honest that I bought the Neutrons from a UK dealer. But since Campy USA is a wholely owned subsidiary of Campagnolo It, I assumed there was at least some degree of customer service since the product was actually made by them. You know, customer satisfaction, and all that. To be clear, I was not looking for them to incur any cost to warranty the product they produced defectively. I only sought advice on how I could fix the defective wheel which was brand new.
Surprisingly, I was told that since they didn't "make any money on this purchase" , "why should we help you? " Have a good day, end of discussion,click. 

This then begs the question, why does Campagnolo USA even exist? To double or triple the msrp of their products in the US? They don't stock parts, and even if they did, who would pay the price? Two years ago I broke a Eurus spoke in a race. To my amazement, there were exactly zero eurus spokes in the US, and Campag USA was closed for vacation for three weeks. When they got back, they could order me one for $27. I ended up getting one from Belgium for $3. 
I honestly don't understand the parent company's thinking. I did some work with a Belgian bike company, and was surprised that the market share between Campag and Shimano was roughly 50/50. In the US, Shimano must have at least 95% (we aren't counting sram). 
Maybe if everyone simply took advantage of the huge savings by buying campy parts from europe and the US market share went to zero, Campag It would take notice.


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## bikerjulio

Reminds me of the scene in "LA Story" where Steve Martin tries to reserve a table at the ultra exclusive "L'Idiot" and is subjected to a humiliating grilling about his financial capacity. "the new cruelty?" he asks.


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## roadworthy

Agree with you OP...sucks big time.
Can you explain what the defect is?
You may want to contact the seller in the UK you bought your wheels from and see what kind of arrangements you can make with them. Yes it may cost you a few bucks to ship the wheels back over seas...but the seller may stand behind them and of course because they buy a lot of wheels from Campy, they have more sway with their Campy rep. 
I would call the UK seller on the phone if possible.
You may want to email them a pic of the issue as well.

As to why Campag USA exists? Hard to know. I will also say that the 'company line' from many top tier companies is often despicable and why many large issues are settled in court.
Best of Luck.


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## tednugent

Fignon's Barber said:


> Just received a defective set of neutron ultra wheels ( freehub issue, a topic for another thread). To backtrack, I have been a devoted Campagnolo loyalist since 1988. NEVER a shimano product.
> I called Campy USA to see if I could remedy the defective wheel without sending the wheel back. When I spoke with them, I was open and honest that I bought the Neutrons from a UK dealer. But since Campy USA is a wholely owned subsidiary of Campagnolo It, I assumed there was at least some degree of customer service since the product was actually made by them. You know, customer satisfaction, and all that. To be clear, I was not looking for them to incur any cost to warranty the product they produced defectively. I only sought advice on how I could fix the defective wheel which was brand new.
> Surprisingly, I was told that since they didn't "make any money on this purchase" , "why should we help you? " Have a good day, end of discussion,click.
> 
> This then begs the question, why does Campagnolo USA even exist? To double or triple the msrp of their products in the US? They don't stock parts, and even if they did, who would pay the price? Two years ago I broke a Eurus spoke in a race. To my amazement, there were exactly zero eurus spokes in the US, and Campag USA was closed for vacation for three weeks. When they got back, they could order me one for $27. I ended up getting one from Belgium for $3.
> I honestly don't understand the parent company's thinking. I did some work with a Belgian bike company, and was surprised that the market share between Campag and Shimano was roughly 50/50. In the US, Shimano must have at least 95% (we aren't counting sram).
> Maybe if everyone simply took advantage of the huge savings by buying campy parts from europe and the US market share went to zero, Campag It would take notice.


The Campy warranty for the wheel, is it administered by Campy USA, Italy, or since you bought it from the UK, the warranty is administered by the UK subsidiary?

That's probably why Campy USA told you to f-off. If you bought it from authorized Campy US dealer, then they would have probably been more willing to help you.


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## mikerp

OP I tend to agree.
They rather than state they didn't make money they could have pointed out you need to deal with the seller.
Lack of parts is a large issue, I'm not looking for a "middle man" in a company.


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## headloss

Sounds quite unprofessional. Maybe the rep on the phone is just bitter because he doesn't work for Campy UK?


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## Fignon's Barber

tednugent said:


> The Campy warranty for the wheel, is it administered by Campy USA, Italy, or since you bought it from the UK, the warranty is administered by the UK subsidiary?
> 
> That's probably why Campy USA told you to f-off. If you bought it from authorized Campy US dealer, then they would have probably been more willing to help you.


Yes, the parent company, Campagnolo Italy, ultimately is responsible for defective product. I bought them from Ribble, and they cover shipping back on defective goods any way. It makes no difference to me where I send them back to, either way I simply take them to the post office and hand the box to them with no charge to me. I was trying to actually help Campagnolo out AND FIX THE DEFECTIVE WHEEL MYSELF! I thought that was rather nice of me. After all, these are brand new Neutron Ultras ( $625 from Uk, $1300 if you are foolish enough to buy them through Campagnolo USA's cartel). I was going to disassemble the wheel, replace parts, and rebuild if possible. That's why I called Campy USA. 
After this treatment, the wheels are stuffed in the box, sent back, I'm done with Campagnolo wheels......and Campagnolo USA isn't exactly getting great publicity. Maybe someday Mr. Campagnolo will google the company that bares his name, read these comments, and actually take note. Yeah right.


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## roadworthy

Fignon's Barber said:


> Yes, the parent company, Campagnolo Italy, ultimately is responsible for defective product. I bought them from Ribble, and they cover shipping back on defective goods any way. It makes no difference to me where I send them back to, either way I simply take them to the post office and hand the box to them with no charge to me. I was trying to actually help Campagnolo out AND FIX THE DEFECTIVE WHEEL MYSELF! I thought that was rather nice of me. After all, these are brand new Neutron Ultras ( $625 from Uk, $1300 if you are foolish enough to buy them through Campagnolo USA's cartel). I was going to disassemble the wheel, replace parts, and rebuild if possible. That's why I called Campy USA.
> After this treatment, the wheels are stuffed in the box, sent back, I'm done with Campagnolo wheels......and Campagnolo USA isn't exactly getting great publicity. Maybe someday Mr. Campagnolo will google the company that bares his name, read these comments, and actually take note. Yeah right.


You may be done with Campy wheels but all I have ridden for years and they have been excellent and I have had no issues. I find dealing with any parent company often to be fruitless and Campy maybe among the worse....partly because of being in another country. Best recourse is always through the seller because they hold the big stick....they keep Campy in business.

OP, you still haven't defined what the defect is. Why couldn't you fix it? Wheels are just parts.


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## tom_h

Fignon's Barber said:


> .... I was trying to actually help Campagnolo out AND FIX THE DEFECTIVE WHEEL MYSELF! ... I was going to disassemble the wheel, replace parts, and rebuild if possible. ...


Try that with a car, or any other new, under-warranty product.

Ask GM to give you "free" parts and you'll fix the car yourself ... or ask the same of Apple computer.


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## Fignon's Barber

tom_h said:


> Try that with a car, or any other new, under-warranty product.
> 
> Ask GM to give you "free" parts and you'll fix the car yourself ... or ask the same of Apple computer.


reread the post. never asked for nor mentioned "free parts". thanks for contributing, though.


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## cohiba7777

I don't believe there is any valid excuse for their behavior - period. We aren't talking Euro-spec vs. US spec or other hindrances - what was requested was merely a warranty activity to the domestic resource - which is setup and owned set by the foreign parent. 

I'd literally would find my way to their offices in Carlsbad, knock on their door and demand to see a manager ( can do same on phone I would imagine). DA and SRAM make good products & while I am a Campy user myself, were I treated that way I'd rip that Chorus 11 off of my bike and coast around town until I could buy a new DA or SRAM kit - lack off appreciation for my using/buying their product I could not tolerate.


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## Cinelli 82220

cohiba7777 said:


> I don't believe there is any valid excuse for their behavior - period.


Campagnolo's engineering is one thing. Their lack of business acumen is another.

I had a very similar experience to Fignon's. Called to ask a fairly simple question and was told to get lost. The guy I talked to was an ignorant jerk. I wouldn't use their stuff now if they gave it to me for free.

The USA is a huge market. This attitude of Campagnolo is hastening their slide into irrelevancy.


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## Bee-an-key

All companies have both great reviews and bad ones. I hear that Sram has great customer service and is quick to replace broken parts, the problem is that their stuff breaks so often. That is bad service by design and buyer beware. Trek, Specialized, Cannondale; I have seen them screw plenty of people on warranty issues. Seen different levels of service provided to top 100 dealers vs. smaller shops. Reps can play favorites.
Buying from overseas saves money because they don't have the same distribution network that the US uses and is a huge issue for a company like Campy. Discussed many times online here since it has effected their business in the US. Mavic and many other companies will also not warranty product shipped here from Ribble, Wiggle etc. Totally understand your frustration but there are A--holes at Shimano too.


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## flatlander_48

Cinelli 82220 said:


> Campagnolo's engineering is one thing. Their lack of business acumen is another.
> 
> I had a very similar experience to Fignon's. Called to ask a fairly simple question and was told to get lost. The guy I talked to was an ignorant jerk. I wouldn't use their stuff now if they gave it to me for free.
> 
> *The USA is a huge market.* This attitude of Campagnolo is hastening their slide into irrelevancy.


Not exactly. It is a huge POTENTIAL market. When Bicycling did that lengthly article a few years back, the US accounted for 17% of the total Campagnolo yearly sales.


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## headloss

flatlander_48 said:


> Not exactly. It is a huge POTENTIAL market. When Bicycling did that lengthly article a few years back, the US accounted for 17% of the total Campagnolo yearly sales.


That was the point, it's a huge potential market that is essentially being ignored. Campy is competitive in Europe while they are almost intentionally non-existent in the US market. They seem to be shrinking in the US more than growing and it's easy to see why.


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## Fignon's Barber

Bee-an-key said:


> Buying from overseas saves money because they don't have the same distribution network that the US uses and is a huge issue for a company like Campy.


Yes. My original question still stands: "Why exactly does Campagnolo USA even exist?"

So far, we have been able to come up with:
-further alienating long time customers
- poor service
-no spare parts inventory
-artificially inflated pricing

Did I miss anything?


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## Zampano

Its become the American way -- especially in cycling unfortunately. A useless monopolistic link in a chain interposed between the manufacturer and consumer, the latter having to take it up the rear.


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## mikerp

Keep in mind this is Campagnolo USA not the Italians, I have contacted their main office in regards to registering parts and have gotten help. Not sure what the deal is with Campy USA but I would think they would be trying to work with custom builders, specialty shops, etc and trying to get the product out. Doesn't seem to be the case.
The funny thing is Stardalli of all companies offers Campy.


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## bikerjulio

Aren't they just a service centre? Nothing to do with marketing?

Google "campagnolo USA" returns nothing relevant. So, no web presence.

Just shows up as a service centre on Campy's website. Carlsbad California.

Not that it excuses rudeness.


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## bigbill

When I've been around Campy USA, it's been about showcasing Campy products more than selling them. You're hard pressed to find a campy OEM bike these days so the availability of demo's is important. In 2010, Campy USA let me take a bike out with Athena 11 to see if I could tell any real difference between it and my Record 11 bike. Other than the escape shifting, no difference at all. I buy my stuff from Ribble and Competitive when they close out the model year.


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## Cinelli 82220

Fignon's Barber said:


> Did I miss anything?


You left out "no presence in the OEM market".

I have seen exactly one Campagnolo equipped bike in a retail store in Winnipeg in the last year. People aren't going to buy what isn't available. 

Campagnolo's actual products are great. They need help, really badly, on their marketing. In five years or ten years they might fade away like Gipiemme or Spidel. That would be a shame. More designers=more competition=more ideas=better products for the end users. 
They need revenue to support R+D. Valentino himself has said they couldn't bring their electronic shifting to market sooner because all their limited engineering staff were busy with the new eleven speed mechanical designs. Compare this to Shimano who seem to have unlimited resources for product development.


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## Cinelli 82220

Zampano said:


> Its become the American way -- especially in cycling unfortunately. A useless monopolistic link in a chain interposed between the manufacturer and consumer, the latter having to take it up the rear.


Hence the tidal wave of Euro imports, ie Wiggle, Chain Reaction, Bellati, etc.

Campagnolo is screwing the local bike shop more than anyone. Their North American pricing is ridiculous but I can order from Europe from my computer without leaving the house. Meanwhile my LBS is stuck with their distributors.


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## orange_julius

flatlander_48 said:


> Not exactly. It is a huge POTENTIAL market. When Bicycling did that lengthly article a few years back, the US accounted for 17% of the total Campagnolo yearly sales.


I wonder if that 17% number is strictly for Campag products sold in the US, or if that includes Campag products sold elsewhere (US/UK) to be shipped to the US. Almost everybody I know in the US buys from Europe/UK, even including LBS employees. 

At any rate, sorry to hear about Fignon's wheel problem. I've had nothing but excellent luck with Campag wheels, from the cheapest up to the Shamals.


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## bikerjulio

orange_julius said:


> I wonder if that 17% number is strictly for Campag products sold in the US, or if that includes Campag products sold elsewhere (US/UK) to be shipped to the US. Almost everybody I know in the US buys from Europe/UK, even including LBS employees.
> 
> At any rate, sorry to hear about Fignon's wheel problem. I've had nothing but excellent luck with Campag wheels, from the cheapest up to the Shamals.


Same here with the wheels, never a problem.

I'm guessing the 17% is official sales in the US. Though I'm surprised it's that high. They wouldn't have an easy way of tracking all the grey market sales.

Campy is still a family-owned private company. No shareholders breathing down their necks. I'm guessing that they got as big as they wanted to, and held production at that level. After all, there's more to life than money.


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## headloss

bikerjulio said:


> I'm guessing the 17% is official sales in the US. Though I'm surprised it's that high. They wouldn't have an easy way of tracking all the grey market sales.


I believe it, granted it is only a figure concerning aftermarket sales and not the original-equipment on bikes.


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## flatlander_48

Also, to put this into perspective, when Bicycling did that article (the year before EPS was introduced I think) Campagnolo's world-wide sales turnover was $150,000,000. For that same year, the bicycle division alone of Shimano did $2,000,000,000.

Definitely a whale and minnow situation...


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## ultimobici

For those of you complaining about the pricing, compare RRP not hacked prices.

Ribble is a wholesaler as well as a retailer. They have the ability to sell at ridiculously cheap prices even in the UK. Their wholesale arm is referred to as Cyclescum North here, rather then Cyclesport North.

The other thing that skews the pricing is that an individual rarely if ever seems to incur import duty, but a business will have to pay.

As for the OP's assertion that they told him to take a hike, that's according to him. I'd be interested to see the actual emails, if they exist. 

As for the price, I work for a manufacturer in the EU. $625 is below the OEM cost! Maybe that's why they were defective?


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## steel515

I have Campy&Shimano but now use SRAM. Campy has lots of infuriating things (mechanically). 

Hands On: 2014 Campagnolo Comp Ultra, One Cranks & Bora Wheels ? Actual Weights & Details!

Derek - 07/23/13 - 1:24am

Did they mention the $125 dollar tool that is required to install and remove the cranks?
Campagnolo Over-Torque Assembly and Disassembly Tool - Mike's Bikes - Road and Mountain Bike Shop, components, parts, accessories, service and repair
What a joke. Campy really doesn’t want you to assemble your own bike. Don’t get me started on the little plastic piece that they put in the hidden chainring bolt so that you think you need to take your cranks in to get new rings put on.


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## roadworthy

flatlander_48 said:


> Also, to put this into perspective, when Bicycling did that article (the year before EPS was introduced I think) Campagnolo's world-wide sales turnover was $150,000,000. For that same year, the bicycle division alone of Shimano did $2,000,000,000.
> 
> Definitely a whale and minnow situation...


Speaking of the minnow, the professor recently died sadly.
Too bad Ginger couldn't have been frozen in time.

PS: speaking of the this alleged and mysterious wheel issue, it was never divulged what is was in spite of a couple of attempts to find out. So you have to draw your own conclusions. Further, if I based my purchases on anticipated customer support, I would probably own 1/4 of the stuff I do. Lots of good companies with crappy customer support. I will only throw up GM as an example even though it could be argued they are not a good company but they are certainly large and they sell a lot of cars. The only way to get them to cooperate with a warranty claim is with a law suit. Hilarious who they put in charge now and her recent atonement for their despicable ignition issue that was swept under the rug when it resulted in lost lives. Btw that ignition part was a 50 cent under sized pin and spring that causes a loose detent. I believe GM sales eclipse Shimano.


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## Cinelli 82220

flatlander_48 said:


> Definitely a whale and minnow situation...


Shimano was once a very small minnow. 

They worked hard to get where they are and I like their stuff more than Campagnolo.


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## flatlander_48

Shimano's goal, whenever it happened, was to be the biggest. That was never Campagnolo's goal. Two very different philosophies. I think Campagnolo didn't want to grow beyond what he could directly control.

I don't think there is a right or wrong; it's just a difference in how people choose to run their businesses.

Regarding Campagnolo USA, I have a different story. I lived in Taiwan for 6 years. I went to the Taipei Bike Expo (I think that was the title) 5 of those 6 years. There was also a trade-only very limited show in Taichung, the city where I lived. One of my co-workers and I slipped in under the pretext that we came to check interest in ceramic materials related to the bike industry. This wasn't entirely fabricated as one part of the company I work for does do ceramics. However, I don't think that they have ever made overtures to the bike industry. This was late November, 2011. I think the Campagnolo USA was 5 people and 3 of them were at the show. I was interested in the EPS hardware and we talked about it for quite a while. They asked if I wanted to ride one of the Dogma's equipped with SR EPS. I couldn't do it then, but they let me do a ride the next morning. I showed up at 6:30 as I had already planned to ride my bike to work. I showed up in my wool Campagnolo jersey. Their mechanic got the seat adjusted for me and swapped pedals and off I went. I never signed anything and they only knew me by my first name. So basically I left my $2700 bike and rode off for 45 minutes on their ~$10,000 one. And yes, I did return it. I don't think the Shimano people would be so predisposed...


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## paredown

Fignon's Barber said:


> Yes. My original question still stands: "Why exactly does Campagnolo USA even exist?"
> 
> So far, we have been able to come up with:
> -further alienating long time customers
> - poor service
> -no spare parts inventory
> -artificially inflated pricing
> 
> Did I miss anything?


Making money in markup to pay for all of the above?


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## ultimobici

paredown said:


> Making money in markup to pay for all of the above?


There is no EXTRA mark up on Campagnolo US prices. The prices you all compare theirs to are from British based distributors who are in the main either wholly online so can aggressively discount, or are actual wholesalers who are undercutting ALL dealers on both sides of the Atlantic.

Individual imports of cycle goods to the US rarely, if ever, have duty & taxes levied on them, whereas a shipment for a business will never be treated that way. So straight away Campagnolo are going to be more expensive than Ribble et al.

As it is illegal to fix prices in the EU, Ribble & Co can do what they want and Campagnolo's only recourse is to shut them down completely. For a company the size of Campagnolo it's something that they are in no position to do without potentially seriously harming their business.


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## qwertasdfg24

ultimobici said:


> Individual imports of cycle goods to the US rarely, if ever, have duty & taxes levied on them, whereas a shipment for a business will never be treated that way. So straight away Campagnolo are going to be more expensive than Ribble et al.


I deal with import on a daily basis in USA, most of main bicycle drivetrain parts import into USA are free of duty for companies, for those of you are curious, look up United States International Trade Commission web site, article 8714.99.50, and about.


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## wrussum

Fignon's Barber said:


> Just received a defective set of neutron ultra wheels ( freehub issue, a topic for another thread). To backtrack, I have been a devoted Campagnolo loyalist since 1988. NEVER a shimano product.
> I called Campy USA to see if I could remedy the defective wheel without sending the wheel back. When I spoke with them, I was open and honest that I bought the Neutrons from a UK dealer. But since Campy USA is a wholely owned subsidiary of Campagnolo It, I assumed there was at least some degree of customer service since the product was actually made by them. You know, customer satisfaction, and all that. To be clear, I was not looking for them to incur any cost to warranty the product they produced defectively. I only sought advice on how I could fix the defective wheel which was brand new.
> Surprisingly, I was told that since they didn't "make any money on this purchase" , "why should we help you? " Have a good day, end of discussion,click.
> 
> This then begs the question, why does Campagnolo USA even exist? To double or triple the msrp of their products in the US? They don't stock parts, and even if they did, who would pay the price? Two years ago I broke a Eurus spoke in a race. To my amazement, there were exactly zero eurus spokes in the US, and Campag USA was closed for vacation for three weeks. When they got back, they could order me one for $27. I ended up getting one from Belgium for $3.
> I honestly don't understand the parent company's thinking. I did some work with a Belgian bike company, and was surprised that the market share between Campag and Shimano was roughly 50/50. In the US, Shimano must have at least 95% (we aren't counting sram).
> Maybe if everyone simply took advantage of the huge savings by buying campy parts from europe and the US market share went to zero, Campag It would take notice.


I'm about to find out if this is still the case. I've been on Campy for 21 years and now, formerly a Dura-Ace owner, and have a second 10 speed brand new group set. And, just received a new carbon Bora One tubular wheelset with an audible 'click' in the front rim always with the valve stem in the 2 o-clock position. I'm waiting to hear back from the distributor in the UK and for kicks and grins I'll call the regional rep in Carlsbad CA.


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## wrussum

Fignon's Barber said:


> Just received a defective set of neutron ultra wheels ( freehub issue, a topic for another thread). To backtrack, I have been a devoted Campagnolo loyalist since 1988. NEVER a shimano product.
> I called Campy USA to see if I could remedy the defective wheel without sending the wheel back. When I spoke with them, I was open and honest that I bought the Neutrons from a UK dealer. But since Campy USA is a wholely owned subsidiary of Campagnolo It, I assumed there was at least some degree of customer service since the product was actually made by them. You know, customer satisfaction, and all that. To be clear, I was not looking for them to incur any cost to warranty the product they produced defectively. I only sought advice on how I could fix the defective wheel which was brand new.
> Surprisingly, I was told that since they didn't "make any money on this purchase" , "why should we help you? " Have a good day, end of discussion,click.
> 
> This then begs the question, why does Campagnolo USA even exist? To double or triple the msrp of their products in the US? They don't stock parts, and even if they did, who would pay the price? Two years ago I broke a Eurus spoke in a race. To my amazement, there were exactly zero eurus spokes in the US, and Campag USA was closed for vacation for three weeks. When they got back, they could order me one for $27. I ended up getting one from Belgium for $3.
> I honestly don't understand the parent company's thinking. I did some work with a Belgian bike company, and was surprised that the market share between Campag and Shimano was roughly 50/50. In the US, Shimano must have at least 95% (we aren't counting sram).
> Maybe if everyone simply took advantage of the huge savings by buying campy parts from europe and the US market share went to zero, Campag It would take notice.





tednugent said:


> The Campy warranty for the wheel, is it administered by Campy USA, Italy, or since you bought it from the UK, the warranty is administered by the UK subsidiary?
> 
> That's probably why Campy USA told you to f-off. If you bought it from authorized Campy US dealer, then they would have probably been more willing to help you.


GLOBAL ECONOMY: Head in sand.


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## mackgoo

Agree if they responded as described, that was not very smart. I don't understand why you needed to provide all the back story? Why not call, greet, have a little small talk and ask them for a little help on an issue you're experiencing? That's what I do and I generally get the help I need.


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