# Cavendish such a quitter



## tjjm36m3 (Mar 4, 2008)

Just done watching today's stage of giro d'italia, which he won, and afterwards he's already pondering if he's going to be quitting the race so he can "focus" on the tour in july. He did the same thing at last year's tour de france where he won 4 stages and then quit before the alps so he can concentrate on the olympics. To me a professional bike racer needs to complete the entire race and not just ride parts of it. I couldn't imagine what his columbia teammates are feeling, having someone ditch the team half way through the race. Sure columbia might not take the overall GC standing, but where's the sportmanship in this cavendish guy?


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## PhatTalc (Jul 21, 2004)

His Columbia Teammates are probably feeling great that he won 3 stages for them, justifying all their hard work. They are probably thinking he will get them 4 stages in the TdF, especially if he doesn't wear himself out in Italy. They are probably stoked that he won the Milan San Remo as well.
As for last year, there was a great deal of pressure on him to do well at the olympics- I think he would have loved to have finished the tour, since he would have had a great shot at the final stage.
A pro bike racer's job is to earn maximum publicity for his sponsor, which he will do if he does well at the tour. He has already done his job at the Giro, and would be hard pushed to win any more stages, and I think noone expects anymore from him.


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## Retro Grouch (Apr 30, 2002)

See the "Cancellara is a punk" thread.

Seems we have a few Prima Donna sprinters in this year's Giro.


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## SilasCL (Jun 14, 2004)

tjjm36m3 said:


> Just done watching today's stage of giro d'italia, which he won, and afterwards he's already pondering if he's going to be quitting the race so he can "focus" on the tour in july. He did the same thing at last year's tour de france where he won 4 stages and then quit before the alps so he can concentrate on the olympics. To me a professional bike racer needs to complete the entire race and not just ride parts of it. I couldn't imagine what his columbia teammates are feeling, having someone ditch the team half way through the race. Sure columbia might not take the overall GC standing, but where's the sportmanship in this cavendish guy?


It's great that you feel this way, but it's not the way pro cycling works. Cavendish gets paid to win races, not to finish 134th in a bunch of mountain stages. If he thinks he can go home, rest, and be better prepared to win more races later in the year, then that's what he should do.


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## Mike T. (Feb 3, 2004)

As Phat says "A pro bike racer's job is to earn maximum publicity for his sponsor" not to race the way you think he should race to please you. I'm sure his team mates are all happy with Stapleton's plans for Cav. Cav himself doesn't decide to quit the race; it's the season's strategy. Everything they do is for the good of the team and the generation of sponsorship money. Nothing else matters.


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## stevesbike (Jun 3, 2002)

get real. There's maybe one more stage for the sprinters (stage 18). Do you seriously expect a guy who is favored to win the green jersey at the tour to spend the next 10 days suffering up climbs, which will serve only to hurt his top end speed?


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## tjjm36m3 (Mar 4, 2008)

I see your point. Maybe it wasn't more of cavendish's idea to quit the race than by his sponsors or director. Well, to your point I guess in today's professional cycling business it is driven more by monetary purposes. I guess my thread is more towards the sportsmanship of the sport of cycling. I personally would not like to see a tour where a team's only intend is to win as many stages as possible but not contend for the overall GC. If cavendish's behavior becomes common, would it benefit the sport if most of the riders at this year's giro that will be racing in july just ride the first half of the giro and use it as a "training" excerise to get them ready for the tour in july? My coach when I was growing up always tells me to finish the race unless I'm am physically unable to. I even seen riders that have crashed in the giro or tour only to get back up and see them painfully finish the stage. They do it because they love sport and appreciate that they are given this opportunities others only dream about. 

Here's a great article that competitive cyclist dugged up about riding in the tour de france.

http://www.competitivecyclist.com/images/pages/whatsnew/0509-races/t-de-f-ng.pdf


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## JohnStonebarger (Jan 22, 2004)

Cavendish -- “I love this race and I would love to stay until the end and support my team and give back to the race. I will discuss the options with my team tonight and make a decision.”


Team Manager Rolf Aldag -- “He has had a very successful couple of weeks at the Giro ... He has already raced 55 days this year and it is our view that the best thing for Mark is to take some recovery now before the Tour.”


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## ClassicSteel71 (Mar 5, 2009)

SilasCL said:


> It's great that you feel this way, but it's not the way pro cycling works. Cavendish gets paid to win races, not to finish 134th in a bunch of mountain stages. If he thinks he can go home, rest, and be better prepared to win more races later in the year, then that's what he should do.


Bingo..


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## Adjudic8r (Mar 11, 2007)

*Hmmmm . . .*

So does that mean that the climbers can sit out the first week or so until the mountain stages?


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## waldo425 (Sep 22, 2008)

Yet again the ending of a stage has been spoiled for me --- thanks.


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## SilasCL (Jun 14, 2004)

tjjm36m3 said:


> I see your point. Maybe it wasn't more of cavendish's idea to quit the race than by his sponsors or director. Well, to your point I guess in today's professional cycling business it is driven more by monetary purposes. I guess my thread is more towards the sportsmanship of the sport of cycling. I personally would not like to see a tour where a team's only intend is to win as many stages as possible but not contend for the overall GC. If cavendish's behavior becomes common, would it benefit the sport if most of the riders at this year's giro that will be racing in july just ride the first half of the giro and use it as a "training" excerise to get them ready for the tour in july? My coach when I was growing up always tells me to finish the race unless I'm am physically unable to. I even seen riders that have crashed in the giro or tour only to get back up and see them painfully finish the stage. They do it because they love sport and appreciate that they are given this opportunities others only dream about.
> 
> Here's a great article that competitive cyclist dugged up about riding in the tour de france.
> 
> http://www.competitivecyclist.com/images/pages/whatsnew/0509-races/t-de-f-ng.pdf


The Giro is not as big a deal as the Tour, except to a few Italian riders. Even for them, winning the Tour would probably be bigger than winning the Giro. Most of the riders entering the Giro are doing it to get results, not just to prep for future races.

That said, there are tons of races early in the year that riders enter mostly for training. It's nice to win a stage in those races like Volta ao Algarve or the Tour of Qatar but the reason top pros enter is to get ready for future races. Not everyone shows up to every race trying to win all the time.

Riders who crash and get back into the race are presumably after something else later on. Cavendish has zero chance of winning anything for the rest of the Giro.


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## culdeus (May 5, 2005)

waldo425 said:


> Yet again the ending of a stage has been spoiled for me --- thanks.


 Pro Cycling (125 Viewing)
*Note: Race results (spoilers) are always allowed in this forum*


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## SilasCL (Jun 14, 2004)

waldo425 said:


> Yet again the ending of a stage has been spoiled for me --- thanks.


Spoilers are allowed in this forum.

Edit: Department of redundancy department sponsors this post


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## rocco (Apr 30, 2005)

waldo425 said:


> Yet again the ending of a stage has been spoiled for me --- thanks.



That must be sarcasm, right?


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## ClassicSteel71 (Mar 5, 2009)

waldo425 said:


> Yet again the ending of a stage has been spoiled for me --- thanks.


99% of people interested knew he was gonna win the stage before it started. Get over it or get up and watch it live.


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## thechriswebb (Nov 21, 2008)

Cavendish would like to remain in the Giro. He worked very hard over the winter to improve his ability to hang in the mountains, and I have heard him say on more than one occasion that he would stay if it were his decision. 
It is not his decision.


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## JohnStonebarger (Jan 22, 2004)

Adjudic8r said:


> So does that mean that the climbers can sit out the first week or so until the mountain stages?


No, but they can sit in. How much work will the climbers do on the flat stages?


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## mohair_chair (Oct 3, 2002)

tjjm36m3 said:


> I couldn't imagine what his columbia teammates are feeling, having someone ditch the team half way through the race.


His teammates were thrilled he won them three stages after their hard work, and now they are thrilled that they don't have to work for him any more and have the freedom to go for a win of their own. Hagen has a stage already, and I'm sure he'd like another. Renshaw has been a faithful worker, and now he's in a position to get a win.

None of his teammates feel the way you do.


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## den bakker (Nov 13, 2004)

JohnStonebarger said:


> No, but they can sit in. How much work will the climbers do on the flat stages?


Ask Iban Mayo.


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## crumjack (Sep 11, 2005)

I believe Cippolini did something similar with the Tour. Race the first week or so, win some stages, drop out before the mountains. This is not exactly a new thing for a sprinter to do.


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## albert owen (Jul 7, 2008)

Cavendish has proved that he is currently the #1 Sprinter in the world. This year he has already beaten all comers and won a Classic. No other rider has won as many races as he has at this stage in their careers.
Today he clearly wasn't even at full speed.

Maybe he's quitting so as to give the slow guys a chance? In which case he isn't a quitter he's just being Mr Nice Guy


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## Creakyknees (Sep 21, 2003)

Yes this is what Cipollini did at the Tour a few times... until he wasn't invited back.


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## thechriswebb (Nov 21, 2008)

Mark Cavendish's job is to win as many stages as possible. His team leadership is going to have him do whatever they feel like gives him the best opportunity to win as many stages as he is capable of. My God, this guy is a dream come true for anyone to have on their team. He only has to do half of a race and he can win more stages than anybody else. He has done his work here: win 4 stages and wear the pink jersey for two days. If the team thinks that pulling him out now gives him a chance to do the same thing again in the tour, then you better believe that is what they are going to do.


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## Gnarly 928 (Nov 19, 2005)

Wonder when Pro Cycling may turn to something similar to American Football? You know, the 'platoon substitutions' they do of the Offense and Defensive teams. Pro cycling may as well, the way the sport seems to be structured right now..

Climbers would not go "on the field" until the race is in the Mountain Stages and Sprinters could sit on the bench till there is a flat stage... That would be way better than now, where all these specialty-guys (except the sprinters who quit after the flats) just waste their time and energy doing something that they are 'unsuited for'..Imagine how exciting it would be to see ~120 Sprinters, all going for it. Or multiple uphill freightrains of climbers doing TTTs uphill in the Alps, then taking an exit at the summit so the 'downhillers' could take over...Wicked! Cool!

"OK, Phil..The Columbia team just took out Cavendish after that intermediate sprint, and put in....._____________ to climb the Alp d'Huez....they will probably put in their "new hire' first round draft choice, Danilo DeLuca for the descent.." (who IS Columbia's climber, anyhow?) Levi could sit home and fly over to race some TT stages and maybe help in the mountains and Astana could afford to hire a couple of sprinters..

"All around" bicycle racers would probably not be good enough( at any one thing) to be viable pros, but what the hey....It's all about the Team...

Good idea? (grin)..


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## robdamanii (Feb 13, 2006)

Gnarly 928 said:


> Wonder when Pro Cycling may turn to something similar to American Football? You know, the 'platoon substitutions' they do of the Offense and Defensive teams. Pro cycling may as well, the way the sport seems to be structured right now..
> 
> Climbers would not go "on the field" until the race is in the Mountain Stages and Sprinters could sit on the bench till there is a flat stage... That would be way better than now, where all these specialty-guys (except the sprinters who quit after the flats) just waste their time and energy doing something that they are 'unsuited for'..Imagine how exciting it would be to see ~120 Sprinters, all going for it. Or multiple uphill freightrains of climbers doing TTTs uphill in the Alps, then taking an exit at the summit so the 'downhillers' could take over...Wicked! Cool!
> 
> ...


Actually, terrible idea. It eliminates team selection as part of strategy.

Cav may be a cocky ass, but he does what he does incredibly well, and that is win and get the team sponsors names out there. It's traditional for sprinters to drop before the mountains get hard, but lets face it...Cav won't be winning the Ciclamino anyway, so what more does he have to prove in this race?


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## wsriii (May 23, 2006)

You know, I'm not necessarily a fan of Cavendish, but the fact that this guy went and rode a spring classic(unlike some other riders) and won, gets him a pass on this other stuff in my book.


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## tjjm36m3 (Mar 4, 2008)

What seems unfair to me is someone coming into a 21 stage tour and knowing they will only race about the first few stages and then quit before they hit the mountains. It gives an unfair advantage for him over other riders that have to endure the entire race because these riders don't want to hit the redline and burn themselves out so early on in the tour. Say for example, if you are going to participate in a 5 stage race but know that you will only race the first two stages, wouldn't you go balls out and ride these two stages like there is no tomorrow? If you have intentions of riding the entire 5 stage race, then your gameplay would be different. The same can be said for the grand tours except increase the intensity. If a rider hits the redline during the first half of the tour, he will no doubt unable to catch up and the rest of the tour would seem like dying a slow suffering death. Winning a multi-stage tour is about pacing yourself, not how you do at the beginning of it or parts of it and I think Cavendish has an advantage knowing the GC contenders will not burn themselves out on the final sprint. They rather reserve their energy to endure the rest of the tour.

But not taking anything awy from Cavendish, I think he's a great sprinter. I just wish he comes into a race and have the same intentions and preparations of finishing it like everybody else.


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## albert owen (Jul 7, 2008)

A Grand Tour should be a multi-faceted event. Every day a seperate *race*. Teams fighting each other for wins using specialists - sprinters (climbers mooching along at the back), time trialists (sprinters/climbers mooching along), breakaway specialists trying to spoil the party for the sprinters etc, etc. All rounders go for overall victory in the GC. King of The Mountains, Points Race and so on.

This makes virtually every day potentially interesting. The most boring tours are the ones where there is little or no daily action. This particular Giro has been amazing compared to the old Discovery juggernaut days which were filled with endless days where riders just paraded through the stages.


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## FondriestFan (May 19, 2005)

JohnStonebarger said:


> No, but they can sit in. How much work will the climbers do on the flat stages?


About 200 meters less than the sprinters.


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## uzziefly (Jul 15, 2006)

I'm just wondering why the hell Cavendish doesn't have the Chiclomino (sp?) jersey and Danilo Di Luca still has it.

The guy's won 3 sprint stages already and placed 2nd on another. How MANY points does Di Luca have for his wins? 1000????

Hmmm??


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## uzziefly (Jul 15, 2006)

ClassicSteel71 said:


> Bingo..


That's the EuroSport commentator's nickname for him now actually.

Bingo=Cav.


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## uzziefly (Jul 15, 2006)

mohair_chair said:


> His teammates were thrilled he won them three stages after their hard work, and now they are thrilled that they don't have to work for him any more and have the freedom to go for a win of their own. Hagen has a stage already, and I'm sure he'd like another. Renshaw has been a faithful worker, and now he's in a position to get a win.
> 
> None of his teammates feel the way you do.


Plus, they'll now try to work for Rogers, with whatever slim hope he has left, so he can finish as high as possible.

I bet they're saying "Damn good that kid left now. It's tiring working for him!!"


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## Fivethumbs (Jul 26, 2005)

Cipollini never finished the Tour


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## jd3 (Oct 8, 2004)

uzziefly said:


> I'm just wondering why the hell Cavendish doesn't have the Chiclomino (sp?) jersey and Danilo Di Luca still has it.
> 
> The guy's won 3 sprint stages already and placed 2nd on another. How MANY points does Di Luca have for his wins? 1000????
> 
> Hmmm??


As of today after stage 13
1 Danilo Di Luca 107 pts
2 Alessandro Petacchi 96
3 Mark Cavendish 79
Cav was way in the back on some of the mountain stages


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## uzziefly (Jul 15, 2006)

jd3 said:


> As of today after stage 13
> 1 Danilo Di Luca 107 pts
> 2 Alessandro Petacchi 96
> 3 Mark Cavendish 79
> Cav was way in the back on some of the mountain stages


I'm surprised how many points mountain stages hand out here.

It's not like this at the Tour right?


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## B15serv (Apr 27, 2008)

This reminds me of a conversation I had with my boss (who knows nothing of cycling). I was explaining the different jerseys/competitions within each stage race and she said that it seemed stupid because "why cant everybody be able to do all aspects?" I then explained that this would be like ragging on a hockey goalie for not scoring enough or saying why dont pitchers hit more homeruns. Everybody has their role. Mark Cavendish performed his role up to and beyond expectations. Now he will rest to make sure that he can continue his job in the TDF. At least he didnt talk smack about the Giro and then drop out to hide that fact that he couldnt hang.... hmmm..... didnt someone do that this week?..... hmm....... it seems that Cancellara was at home being a douche while Mr. Cavendish was trucking across the finish line today like a beast. I think he earned his rest and I think he's a great cyclist/person/employee for doing whats best for his team and employers.


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## moabbiker (Sep 11, 2002)

uzziefly said:


> I'm surprised how many points mountain stages hand out here.
> 
> It's not like this at the Tour right?


I think because the flat stages at the TDF are double points so the true sprinters rack up their points quickly. Whereas the Giro are fixed points for stages.


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## RkFast (Dec 11, 2004)

stevesbike said:


> get real. There's maybe one more stage for the sprinters (stage 18). Do you seriously expect a guy who is favored to win the green jersey at the tour to spend the next 10 days suffering up climbs, which will serve only to hurt his top end speed?


Do baseball players who are the great hitters have to "suffer" in the field at a postion they may not even be good at?

Does a pure shooter in basketball have to "suffer" on defense?

Does a defensive back in football have to "suffer" on Special Teams?

Sportsmen should not get to "pick and choose" which parts of their Sport, espeically in a single event what they want to participate in and what they dont. If youre in a game/event, you play the whole thing. 

Just my 2.......


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## uzziefly (Jul 15, 2006)

Cavendish WANTED to finish the race. His team director decided to pull him and Mark Renshaw out actually.

Interview was on EuroSport's coverage of the Giro a few minutes ago.


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## BassNBrew (Aug 4, 2008)

They need to front load these GTs with mountain stages to weed out the pretenders. There are all kinds of flat tours for these sprinters. Heck, go take up track racing.


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## albert owen (Jul 7, 2008)

BassNBrew said:


> They need to front load these GTs with mountain stages to weed out the pretenders.


This is exactly what they did  3 Mountain Stages in the first 10 days.


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## kiwisimon (Oct 30, 2002)

RkFast said:


> Do baseball players who are the great hitters have to "suffer" in the field at a postion they may not even be good at?.


 Not if they play in the AL.




RkFast said:


> Does a pure shooter in basketball have to "suffer" on defense?.


 Give you that one.




RkFast said:


> Does a defensive back in football have to "suffer" on Special Teams?.


 Punters hardly do anything else. QBs don't chase kicks down field.




RkFast said:


> Sportsmen should not get to "pick and choose" which parts of their Sport, espeically in a single event what they want to participate in and what they dont. If youre in a game/event, you play the whole thing


 Which is why Merckx is still the greatest cyclist ever and Lemond arguably better than Armstrong. Who has the most name recognition? The guy who picks and chooses. Horses for courses. Good on Cavendish for turning up. just my 2 cents worth ( probably not even worth that much).


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## uzziefly (Jul 15, 2006)

People might not be happy, organizers may not be as well.

The team feel they're right, looking after their best interests (actually, it'd be better for them if Cav does ride) for the Tour and sponsors, he's done his job, all those involved with Columbia are happy and that's all that matters honestly. 

Oh well.


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## Andrea138 (Mar 10, 2008)

When you (a general "you" here- no one in particular) race and train like a pro, then you can complain. Like Stevesbike said- what's the point? First time up a big climb, the sprinters will be out of the main group and will be of no use to the team.


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## uno-speedo (Oct 26, 2004)

Ever watched American football, when they bring on a kicker, just to kick the football...and thats it!?! Kind of like Cav, which I have no problem with. More power to Cav.


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## heathb (Nov 1, 2008)

Robbie McEwen did this for years in the Giro. 

It makes the race a lot more spectacular to have the best doing what they do best. After all the spectators like a good show and there's no need in a sprinter burning up muscle and strength riding up mountains for hours.


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## ksanbon (Jul 19, 2008)

RkFast said:


> Does a pure shooter in basketball have to "suffer" on defense?


Coaches usually replace poor defending shooters w/ a defensive specialist during "crunch time"



RkFast said:


> Does a defensive back in football have to "suffer" on Special Teams?


Teams don't risk getting star defensive backs hurt on special teams.


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## uzziefly (Jul 15, 2006)

Andrea138 said:


> When you (a general "you" here- no one in particular) race and train like a pro, then you can complain. Like Stevesbike said- what's the point? First time up a big climb, the sprinters will be out of the main group and will be of no use to the team.


Let's get Tom Brady catching long passes first and blocking wide outs too now yeah?

: :7:


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## alexb618 (Aug 24, 2006)

at least cav is actually riding the giro... where are all the other green jersey contenders?


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## doctor855 (Dec 27, 2008)

RkFast said:


> Do baseball players who are the great hitters have to "suffer" in the field at a postion they may not even be good at?
> 
> Does a pure shooter in basketball have to "suffer" on defense?
> 
> ...


+designated hitters in the American league

+c'mon defense hasn't been played in the NBA in at least ten years.

+once defensive players have proved to be good, or promising they don't see anymore time on special teams. it is too dangerous.


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## sbsbiker (Mar 29, 2008)

Let's not forget that if you are able to pick and choose your teammembers daily to cater your team for the stage, the big budget teams will kill those that do not have the money to fill their teams with specality riders. Starting with 9 guys, and only using those allows for the management of riders to be a part of the race.


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## jcr7u (May 11, 2009)

robdamanii said:


> Cav may be a cocky ass, but he does what he does incredibly well, and that is win and get the team sponsors names out there. It's traditional for sprinters to drop before the mountains get hard, but lets face it...Cav won't be winning the Ciclamino anyway, so what more does he have to prove in this race?



You cant beat me, I quit.

I am relatively new to cycling (been a pretty intense runner for years) so call me what you will, but this type of behavior turns me off of the sport. Teammates forced to NOT push for a win to help another teammate win? Riders dropping out halfway through a race to save themselves for another race or because they can't win the rest of that race? Whatever happened to athletes pushing themselves as hard as possible, win or lose? Just going for it? I am sorry, but I love to lace my flats up and run or strap on my cycling shoes to push myself. Cavendish is a tremendous athlete, I'm sure, but come on - grow some balls and finish the race. Then, rest up, and race the Tour like a big boy.

Money, money, money - seems like his only responsibility is to make money. I'm gonna go get on the bike and ride up mountain roads for free


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## spade2you (May 12, 2009)

Adjudic8r said:


> So does that mean that the climbers can sit out the first week or so until the mountain stages?


Of course not. However, if the course were reversed to favor the climbers for the 1st half, then it would only make sense that climbers could withdraw after the climbing stages are over.


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## rocco (Apr 30, 2005)

Maybe the title of this thread should be "Brits are such quitters".


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## ultimobici (Jul 16, 2005)

jcr7u said:


> You cant beat me, I quit.
> 
> I am relatively new to cycling (been a pretty intense runner for years) so call me what you will, but this type of behavior turns me off of the sport. Teammates forced to NOT push for a win to help another teammate win? Riders dropping out halfway through a race to save themselves for another race or because they can't win the rest of that race? Whatever happened to athletes pushing themselves as hard as possible, win or lose? Just going for it? I am sorry, but I love to lace my flats up and run or strap on my cycling shoes to push myself. Cavendish is a tremendous athlete, I'm sure, but come on - grow some balls and finish the race. Then, rest up, and race the Tour like a big boy.
> 
> Money, money, money - seems like his only responsibility is to make money. I'm gonna go get on the bike and ride up mountain roads for free


But consider this, Cav has won all he can in this year's Giro. There are no more stages he can contend, nor is he in with a chance of the ciclamino jersey. So all he is going to be doing is slogging it out as pack fodder. Come July in France his speed may suffer and he may not achieve what he is capable of with the rest.

So in short you want him to ride another week for no further reward with the possibility that he'll lose the Green jersey at the Tour?


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## atpjunkie (Mar 23, 2002)

*NEWS AT 11! Field Sprinter retires from Giro*

when all that is left is hard mountain stages
TENS SHOCKED!
fer chrissakes what are ya NEW?
this is about as normal as normal gets in the pro ranks
an FYI, of all the victories High Road has logged this year, Cavendish is responsible for close to half
he's paid to win
will he win any of the next stages? NO
will racing them hurt his chance of winning stages in the Tour? YES

you're the armchair DS, make the call.

now become an armchair cycling historian and see if this is anything unusual


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## jd3 (Oct 8, 2004)

What many people do not understand *is that pro cycling is a team sport*. Each team has goals that cover the whole season. This is all just part of team strategy to put their sponsors name on as many front pages as possible.


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## 32and3cross (Feb 28, 2005)

jcr7u said:


> I am relatively new to cycling


That pretty much sums it up right there keep watching you'll pick it all up in time its a complex sport for sure.


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## Monty Dog (Apr 8, 2004)

Farrar's packed too, he won zip, but I guess that makes him some kinda hero in your view? Cav's off to train for the Tour Green Jersey - no Boonen, no Pettacchi - so only a lacklustre Robbie to contend with - who wouldn't focus their efforts?


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## moonmoth (Nov 8, 2008)

Monty Dog said:


> Cav's off to train for the Tour Green Jersey - no Boonen, no Pettacchi - so only a lacklustre Robbie to contend with - who wouldn't focus their efforts?


Ha, I'm sure Thor Hushovd would disagree with you!

Wonder if Bennati will be healed up for the Tour?
˜


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## muscleendurance (Jan 11, 2009)

*n00b..*



tjjm36m3 said:


> To me a professional bike racer needs to complete the entire race and not just ride parts of it. I couldn't imagine what his columbia teammates are feeling, having someone ditch the team half way through the race.


thats how grand tours are for alot of sprinters (unless they are fighting for the points jersey)


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## asgelle (Apr 21, 2003)

jcr7u said:


> I am relatively new to cycling (been a pretty intense runner for years) so call me what you will, but this type of behavior turns me off of the sport. Teammates forced to NOT push for a win to help another teammate win? Riders dropping out halfway through a race to save themselves for another race or because they can't win the rest of that race? Whatever happened to athletes pushing themselves as hard as possible, win or lose?


Tell it to Roger Bannister.


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## albert owen (Jul 7, 2008)

It's also worth remembering that Cav was racing at less than 100%. He has not been well for some time. Which makes:
1) his leaving the race to recover and regroup understandable.
2) his stage wins all the more impressive.

It isn't his fault that Boonen, his big rival for the "Green" in the TDF, prefers snowboarding.


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## grrrah (Jul 22, 2005)

No problem with Cav leaving the Giro (as most know its normal for the sprinters). My only problem was with him calling out the Garmin team before the start of the Giro saying they were disrespectful to the race for only focusing on the TTT and maybe some breakaways. He knew he was gonna pull out midway, so he should have just kept quiet, won, and gone home with a smile.


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## chas (Aug 10, 2006)

jd3 said:


> What many people do not understand *is that pro cycling is a team sport*. Each team has goals that cover the whole season. This is all just part of team strategy to put their sponsors name on as many front pages as possible.


I just wanted to re-emphasize the TEAM aspect of cycling. What other team sports require every person on the team to play every minute of every game (in this case race)? 

Last night I watched Kobe sit on the bench to rest the last few minutes of the game after it became clear the Lakers would lose.

Roger Clemens was one of the best pitchers in baseball and most of the time he sat down after seven or eight innings to let a closer finish out the game.

Does that mean that Kobe Bryant or Roger Clemens are not fierce competitors because they don't give it their all from start to finish of every game? Of course not.

I think the confusion is that some people view cycling as an individual sport, when it's really quite the opposite. An individual racer without support from a team would hardly stand a chance of winning a one day race, let alone a 3 week grand tour. Once you start understanding the team tactics taking place over the course of a stage, or a Grand Tour, or a season, the strategy involved is pretty interesting.


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## jcr7u (May 11, 2009)

albert owen said:


> It's also worth remembering that Cav was racing at less than 100%. He has not been well for some time. Which makes:
> 1) his leaving the race to recover and regroup understandable.
> 2) his stage wins all the more impressive.
> 
> It isn't his fault that Boonen, his big rival for the "Green" in the TDF, prefers snowboarding.


i thought it was skiing.... same reference, i guess.


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## shabbasuraj (May 14, 2005)

this thread again strengthens my dislike for all SPECIALISTS and why I respect GC contenders..... As fans we all know what cipo and cav and fabian do.... so in my mind they are at the bottom of the cycling hierarchy. I suggesy we label such wins with asterisks.

Fabian is a complete joke... "ya i am a ITT specialist...but only on FLAT and SHORT stages..." ....pathetic primadonna whining.


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## Mike T. (Feb 3, 2004)

shabbasuraj said:


> this thread again strengthens my dislike for all SPECIALISTS and why I respect GC contenders..... As fans we all know what cipo and cav and fabian do.... so in my mind they are at the bottom of the cycling hierarchy. I suggesy we label such wins with asterisks.
> Fabian is a complete joke... "ya i am a ITT specialist...but only on FLAT and SHORT stages..." ....pathetic primadonna whining.


Don't idolize anyone in the sports of football (American), football (the rest of the world), baseball, cricket, track & field, running, rugby, auto racing etcetera, etcetera, etcetera. They're all specialists within their sport. Don't idolize anyone within cycling either. Even Wiggins, the big all-rounder, doesn't get involved in track or road sprinting.


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## shabbasuraj (May 14, 2005)

i am my own idol.. i just respect GC people more than all the rest.. heck we all know we do...


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## function (Jun 20, 2008)

I actually prefer classics guys, no time to limit losses and follow wheels, you either go up the road or you lose. And you can't just rely on your sprint and sitting in most times either, you need to be able to carry yourself to the line. I'd consider them more "all rounders" than climber GC types.


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## Mike T. (Feb 3, 2004)

shabbasuraj said:


> i am my own idol.. i just respect GC people more than all the rest.. heck we all know we do...


Don't speak for me. I respect the stars, who, having a bad tour, fetch water for their team mates (Lance for instance) put aside personal glory and do everything for the good of the team (Horner for instance). It's no different with Cav. He'll bring more glory for the team by being at his best at the TdF than by dragging himself over the GdI mountains of the last few days, finishing 50 minutes down on GC two days ago like the Garmin boys and being worn out come July.

Some of us understand pro bike racing and those of us who did our little local amateur roads races would have rather died than quit.


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## shabbasuraj (May 14, 2005)

back to the thread cav is just a quitter..


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## kbiker3111 (Nov 7, 2006)

Does anyone remember Petacchi in 2003? He won 4 of the first 6 stages, then the minute the road went up he dropped out. That was bad. 

My bigger problem with Cav is his attitude. He and his handlers act like he's the second coming of Erik Zable or Sean Kelly. Correct me if I'm wrong, but his biggest win is MSR and he's dropped out of two Tours and a Giro. Seems like its time to start dominating the sport. 

Sure is fun to watch him, though.


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## den bakker (Nov 13, 2004)

kbiker3111 said:


> Does anyone remember Petacchi in 2003? He won 4 of the first 6 stages, then the minute the road went up he dropped out. That was bad.
> 
> My bigger problem with Cav is his attitude. He and his handlers act like he's the second coming of Erik Zable or Sean Kelly. Correct me if I'm wrong, but his biggest win is MSR and he's dropped out of two Tours and a Giro. Seems like its time to start dominating the sport.
> 
> Sure is fun to watch him, though.


His results are at least as good as Zabels when Zabel was 24.


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## SilasCL (Jun 14, 2004)

kbiker3111 said:


> Does anyone remember Petacchi in 2003? He won 4 of the first 6 stages, then the minute the road went up he dropped out. That was bad.
> 
> My bigger problem with Cav is his attitude. He and his handlers act like he's the second coming of Erik Zable or Sean Kelly. Correct me if I'm wrong, but his biggest win is MSR and he's dropped out of two Tours and a Giro. Seems like its time to start dominating the sport.
> 
> Sure is fun to watch him, though.


Yeah, his biggest win was MSR, how does that compare to Erik Zabel in any way?

Oh, that was Zabel's biggest win too...and he didn't win it until he was 27.


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## Mike T. (Feb 3, 2004)

SilasCL said:


> Yeah, his biggest win was MSR, how does that compare to Erik Zabel in any way?
> Oh, that was Zabel's biggest win too...and he didn't win it until he was 27.


And Cipo didn't win it until his, umm, 11th or 13th try, or something like that.


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## kbiker3111 (Nov 7, 2006)

Zabel had MSR four times, as well as Amstel and oh, seven green jersey's. My point is that Cav is acting like he's the greatest of all time when his palmares are still relatively thin (relative to his immense talent).


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## den bakker (Nov 13, 2004)

kbiker3111 said:


> Zabel had MSR four times, as well as Amstel and oh, seven green jersey's. My point is that Cav is acting like he's the greatest of all time when his palmares are still relatively thin (relative to his immense talent).


the guy is 24. Why not compare with what other rides have won at a comparable age instead of using their integrated 15 year career. Or is Cavendish a looser for not having won 3 green jerseys before turning 20?


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## SilasCL (Jun 14, 2004)

kbiker3111 said:


> Zabel had MSR four times, as well as Amstel and oh, seven green jersey's. My point is that Cav is acting like he's the greatest of all time when his palmares are still relatively thin (relative to his immense talent).


Can you point to any specific moment where Cavendish is acting like the GOAT? I'd be really interested to see that even implied in the slightest way.

My guess is that you're talking out your ass though.


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## kbiker3111 (Nov 7, 2006)

SilasCL said:


> Can you point to any specific moment where Cavendish is acting like the GOAT? I'd be really interested to see that even implied in the slightest way.
> 
> My guess is that you're talking out your ass though.


Wow, we must have the greatest professions ever, that we are allowed pedantic internet arguements on a Wednesday afternoon.

Anyway, I'm referring to his talk pre/post olympics last year. An interview in ROAD last year in which is talked about his massive ego. Just about every time he talks about a sprint, he says he's by far the fastest person in the peleton. And more recently, his banter with Garmin was a bit brash. His handlers have only fueled this ego-tastic attitude by having him pull out of his last three grand tours. 

All I'm saying is that maybe he should reserve the unbeatable talk for a few years down the line, assuming everything plays out the way he expects.


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## den bakker (Nov 13, 2004)

kbiker3111 said:


> Wow, we must have the greatest professions ever, that we are allowed pedantic internet arguements on a Wednesday afternoon.
> 
> Anyway, I'm referring to his talk pre/post olympics last year. An interview in ROAD last year in which is talked about his massive ego. Just about every time he talks about a sprint, he says he's by far the fastest person in the peleton. And more recently, his banter with Garmin was a bit brash. His handlers have only fueled this ego-tastic attitude by having him pull out of his last three grand tours.
> 
> All I'm saying is that maybe he should reserve the unbeatable talk for a few years down the line, assuming everything plays out the way he expects.


well he is the fastest sprinter. And it's not like Garmin have been a factor at all in the giro.


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## ultimobici (Jul 16, 2005)

shabbasuraj said:


> i am my own idol.. i just respect GC people more than all the rest.. heck we all know we do...


What? The guys who don't come out to play until late April, then piss off to the beach in August? Nah, not me. Start in February and stop in October. If you skip the Classics, you're not worth my interest.


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## albert owen (Jul 7, 2008)

He's doing OK:

World Champion, Madison (2005, 2008)
Tour de France, 4 Stages (2008)
Giro d'Italia, 5 Stages + 1 TTT (2008, 2009)
Milan-Sanremo (2009)

And then there are all those little stage wins in the Tour of Missouri etc. + numerous good track results.

I'm sure he'll try hard in the next few years to be even better. 

Whether he matches up to Sean Kelly (one of the all time greats) we'll only know when his career is over. But - as the man who fell off the Empire State Building said as he passed the 50th floor - "so far, so good".


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## JSR (Feb 27, 2006)

kbiker3111 said:


> . Just about every time he talks about a sprint, he says he's by far the fastest person in the peleton. And more recently, his banter with Garmin was a bit brash.


He IS the fastest person in the peleton. For absolute sure, he's the fastest. Pettachi managed to beat him through guile and wit (and good on him!), but once Cav got his bearings nobody else was close.

I, too, was a bit surprised at his comments re: Garmin and ITT. He's usually pretty circumspect in his comment, but if what I read was trash talk, it was pretty mild. Of course, the fact they were able to go out and back it up with a win reminds me that "It ain't braggin' if it's a fact."

I like the kid. He praises his teammates if he wins, and shoulders the blame if he loses. If he can stay healthy and motvated he will make us forget about all those other guys. 

JSR


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