# Colnago CLX being made by GIANT



## merckxman

For everyones general knowledge, per www.cyclingnews.com:
Colnago adds a second new model at the other end of the range for 2007. The monocoque carbon fiber CLX is Colnago's first frame to be produced outside its Italian factory and is actually crafted by Giant in Taiwan in a dedicated facility. Although "Designed in Italy" may offer up some negative connotations, the CLX is still a Colnago, and the company has clearly gone to significant lengths to ensure its reputation remains intact. The frame molds themselves as well as the dropouts are actually produced in Italy and then shipped overseas, and Ernesto Colnago himself is reputed to have hand-selected each of the Giant factory employees charged to work on the line. 

The CLX will be offered as a frameset for US$2699.99 or as a complete bicycle with a variety of build specifications. Retail price on a complete bicycle with Shimano Ultegra componentry and Mavic Ksyrium wheels is reported to be approximately US$4200.


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## ETWN Stu

Some die hard fans (can feel the knives in my back now) would say that it is an outrage or preposterous that this now occurring to their beloved Colnago brand. I for one think it a great move for the company. Why? Because the Asian countries are doing fantastic things with carbon fibre, not only in the bicycling industry but also with in the aerospace market too. For us as cyclist it creates a whole new market and field of bikes that we could consider as a trainer or daily commuter, thus we don’t have to dip our hands in our pockets too deep for that second or third bike which will still maintain a high level of quality control. Also the resale value of the Italian made Colnago’s maintain a relatively high return when it comes to listing them on the second hand market i.e. EBay!!


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## fabsroman

Wait until all of Colnago's line is made in Taiwan. Then you won't be saying this anymore. I wouldn't have paid what I paid for my Cristallo if it were made in Taiwan.

With that said, I bought an Arte frame off of ebay for a little over $600 and the frame is pretty decent. I won't cry if I wreck it either because it is a Taiwanese frame and not an Italian frame.

Now, if I get lucky enough to buy an Extreme Power next winter, you can bet I will not be happy if the frame says "Designed in Italy" on it. The problem with this stuff is that it rarely ends with just a single line being made overseas. Companies usually test the waters and if everything turns out okay, then the entire line goes overseas. I have seen this happen way too many times with American companies. In the early 80's Levi's tag line was that they were made in America. Then they were made overseas, and then the entire company moved its headquarters from the US to overseas.


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## ETWN Stu

Economics and cost cutting is the way of the world. Somewhere along the line someone gets rich, really really rich. And this time I am glad it Ernesto, because any man who lies about his age (when he was 13) to get a job making bikes and has been doing so all his life deserves it.

Dont be surprised if your Nalini kit's tag says "made in Thailand" any time soon.


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## wasfast

It doesn't take a crystal ball to see where the industry is heading (heck, most are already there!). I'm not against Colnago using Pacific Rim manufacturing, just don't think he should have used the Colnago branding for that endeavor. Many manufacturers invent new branding to preserve the classic marque. I think this will dilute the Colnago name in the end but perhaps that's not a concern to Ernesto, especially at his advancing age.


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## Fignon's Barber

merckxman said:


> For everyones general knowledge, per www.cyclingnews.com:
> Colnago adds a second new model at the other end of the range for 2007. The monocoque carbon fiber CLX is Colnago's first frame to be produced outside its Italian factory and is actually crafted by Giant in Taiwan in a dedicated facility.....


 
This was indicated in a colnago press release about a year ago. Unfortunately, its a fact of economics and probably long overdue. Once the steel frame went out of fashion, it enabled a high degree of automation , and "took the welding torch" out of the hands of the true artisan. The craftsman was no longer needed. They became an added expense. C'est le vie.


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## merckxman

*Maybe so...?*

But a few months ago I was there (Nalini) and there were lots of woman working away at sewing machines. I was also impressed with the number of pro team kits that were being sewn. Very nice people. I wish them well in the world of global economics. 



ETWN Stu said:


> Economics and cost cutting is the way of the world. Somewhere along the line someone gets rich, really really rich. And this time I am glad it Ernesto, because any man who lies about his age (when he was 13) to get a job making bikes and has been doing so all his life deserves it.
> 
> Dont be surprised if your Nalini kit's tag says "made in Thailand" any time soon.


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## mriddle

*Ever ridden one?*

Everyone seems to have an opinion...But until someone actually puts some time on a CLX we should not jump to conclusions. I've worked for 20 years in a semi-tech industry that has starting moving some things to China. Some are amazingly good, others are amazingly inconsistent and unpredictable.

I ride a C-50 with everything Campy, always will. There are a lot of really good carbon frames coming out of China. Everyone seems to love the Specialized duo of Tarmac and Roubaix. 

Can anyone honestly say that a Cristallo or E1 is any better quality frame than a CLX? I don't know but I love the "Made In Italy" as much as anyone. The CLX certainly looks great, I'd love to hear some actual reviews of it. I'm thinking of adding another Colnago, but I'm thinking retro steel.


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## fabsroman

I am not saying that the Cristallo is a better frame than the CLX. My deal with something being built in Italy is the history that goes with it. There is a mystique about a Colnago being built in Italy. My frame search started with Italian, went to American, then to Spanish, and finally back to Italian. I never once thought about getting a frame built in Taiwan.

Imagine if Ferraris were made in Taiwan? How would that go for Ferrari's history. As mentioned above, Colnago should have made their Taiwan frames under a different label and should have let people know that the Taiwan frames have the same geometry as the Colnagos. I think I said that I bought a Taiwanese frame for racing. Don't know if I said this yet, but it looks to be built rather well. I just put the headset, fork, and wheelset on today, and I am waiting for a groupo and better weather so that I can ride it. Then, I'll be able to give an opinion about an Italian Colnago versus a Taiwanese Colnago.


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## j__h

Don't like Giant, but that's only because they're everywhere and the name of the company puts me off, not because they're poorly built. It's just the snob in me. They actually make great CF frames. 

With that being said, I'm not a purist, the company's name and reputation are more important in my decision making then where an item is manufactured. Although they should tell you where it's manufactured and not try an hide it. Regardless, it appears Colnago is not trying to hide it. 

Mystique is all about perception regardless of the reality.


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## sbindra

What I do not understand is who in the world would buy a CLX at that price?

I love my Giant TCR Advanced. I also had a TCR Composite as well. From my perspective, Giant frames are made just as well as any other carbon fibre frame out there. I understand paying extra for the made in Italy moniker and the perceived quality but why in the world would anyone pay $2,699 for a frame made in Giant's factory when you can buy a Giant carbon fibre bike for $1,699 or the TCR Advanced for $2,800, which is just as cutting edge as any of the $3,000 to $4,000 high-end range of carbon fibre bikes.


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## vicov

Check out www.thewashingmachinepost.net for the first full clx review.


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## mriddle

*Giant for $2,800?*

Not that I would ever buy any frame with the name "GIANT" on it...
But for $2,800 I could add some lunch money and get a C-50 from Mike at Maestro.

Green Giant, now those are some good green beans.


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## Clevor

mriddle said:


> Not that I would ever buy any frame with the name "GIANT" on it...
> But for $2,800 I could add some lunch money and get a C-50 from Mike at Maestro.
> 
> Green Giant, now those are some good green beans.


Giant has inplemented a lot of tech and stiffness (and lightness) in their 'higher end' frames, which mean those that cost a whopping $2800. It's like comparing a bike that the T-Mobile team rides compared to that CLX, or a dated C50 for that matter.

And you are hearing this from an owner of a Giant and C50, BTW :wink5:.

That CLX is a joke: way overpriced. At least the Pinarello Gallileo is made in Taiwan, but you can get a complete bike for $2500 with full Ultegra.


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## ETWN Stu

Sooner or later the price of the CLX will come down, thats If no body buys one. Cant wait to how many pro teams are on them this year hehehe


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## Clevor

ETWN Stu said:


> Sooner or later the price of the CLX will come down, thats If no body buys one. Cant wait to how many pro teams are on them this year hehehe


Also keep in mind that $2800 is the list price. Unfortunately, if you live in the U.S., it's highly likely (Veltec or not), that pricing on Colnagos will remain the same as it has over the years. Yup, $4400 for a C50.

So if you can get a C50 for $2800-3100 from Maestro (you can also get it for that price from many UK vendors), means the CLK will probably be discounted abroad. Going by Giant pricing, to me a fair price is $1250 + $250 for the Colnago name = $1500 :lol:. Still, I doubt it will be as light as my 2005 TCR Comp 1, a frame which was priced similar.


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## KATZRKOL

*Don't be silly. .*



 fabsroman said:


> Wait until all of Colnago's line is made in Taiwan.


Cars like the Honda S2000 are made in Japan versus the US, and high end Volkswagens/BMWs are made in Germany(not South Carolina or Mexico), and this is for a reason. Same here with bike framesets, the very highest end will always be made in Italy or France. Another example is Swiss watches, there's no such thing as a "luxury" brand Asian watch.


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## fabsroman

Good point. I'll let you know how the Taiwanese built Arte rides at $635 for the frame. I am hoping it is so bad that I have to buy a C50 or Extreme Power next year (i.e., if it cracks in half I will be able to justify the purchase of a high end frame to my wife).


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## ETWN Stu

*Hope your wife is not reading you post!!*



fabsroman said:


> Good point. I'll let you know how the Taiwanese built Arte rides at $635 for the frame. I am hoping it is so bad that I have to buy a C50 or Extreme Power next year (i.e., if it cracks in half I will be able to justify the purchase of a high end frame to my wife).



A C50 or a Extreme Power would be a nice up grade, though your safety comes first. Lets hope you are not moving at a rapid pace at the time of intentional destruction..


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## filtersweep

fabsroman said:


> Wait until all of Colnago's line is made in Taiwan. Then you won't be saying this anymore. I wouldn't have paid what I paid for my Cristallo if it were made in Taiwan.


Exactly! Ding ding ding! You would pay a fraction of the price--- isn't that the entire point?!


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## KATZRKOL

*Excellent point. .*



wasfast said:


> I'm not against Colnago using Pacific Rim manufacturing, just don't think he should have used the Colnago branding for that endeavor.


And again, this is seen VERY frequently in the auto industry, such as Infinity/Nissan; Acura/Honda; Audi/Volkswagen. . .


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## mriddle

*Arte review*



fabsroman said:


> Good point. I'll let you know how the Taiwanese built Arte rides at $635 for the frame. I am hoping it is so bad that I have to buy a C50 or Extreme Power next year (i.e., if it cracks in half I will be able to justify the purchase of a high end frame to my wife).


The April issue of ROAD magazine has a review of the Arte.


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## MERAKMAN

fabsroman said:


> Good point. I'll let you know how the Taiwanese built Arte rides at $635 for the frame. I am hoping it is so bad that I have to buy a C50 or Extreme Power next year (i.e., if it cracks in half I will be able to justify the purchase of a high end frame to my wife).



Hey, so what happened? Did the Arte fall apart!? How did it compare to your Italian Colnago?


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## fabsroman

The Arte did just fine. I raced it pretty hard and it held up just fine. It did such a good job that I went out and bought another Arte frame for around $600 on ebay in NS03 to match my Cristallo. The new frame is still in the box and it will play backup to the unpainted Arte should I wreck it. The Cristallo might be a little bit more comfortable, but not by much. I think the biggest issue with the comfort factor on any bike is the wheelset and tire pressue. I don't notice much difference between the aluminum and carbon fiber frames, either in ride harshness or stiffness. With that said, I got the green light for a C50 this winter. That is supposed to be the smoothest ride out there, so maybe it will be more comfortable than the Arte and Cristallo, even though I think both of them are pretty comfortable anyway. My issue is with my Zipp wheels. When I ride those my hands get numb no matter which frame I ride. If I switch to the Campy Eurus or the Campy Record Strada wheels I built, everything is fine and the ride is super smooth.


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## iyeoh

I rather pay double the price for a Colnago than buy a Taiwanese frame. And its not prejudice. *I am Chinese* The same reason why I prefer to pay double for a branded German car. Call me a snob. Call me spoilt. Whatever. 

This Asian won't touch Asian-made merchandise. I buy my toys to be happy and feel good. The Colnago name is highly revered by me. Its not something I had envision would be ba$tardized, not that old man Ernesto would be getting much out of that Giant JV relationship. Heck, I dropped using Vittoria Corsa CX tires because they moved production to Bangkok. I use Veloflex now, and those guys simply took over Vittoria's factory and labor force.

You either have premium brand leadership or price leadership. Can't really have both. Giant branded frames will continue outselling Giant-made Colnagos by a factor of five simply because they will always be cheaper.

Sorry about the rant.


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## fabsroman

The cost of the Arte to the Dream is about 1/4. The Arte frame is around $500 to $600 depending on where you get it, and the Dream HX is between $2,000 and $2,500 depending on where you get it. So, you are paying 4 times as much to ride the Italian made Dream versus the Taiwanese made Arte. I race the Artes and refuse to race the Cristallo unless the race has some serious climbs that will split the group up really well. In the category I currently race (i.e., 4's), the crashes can be pretty horrible. I would cry if I wrecked an Italian made frame.

With that said, I sort of agree with you. I love history, and riding a Colnago that isn't made in Italy is kind of like driving a Ferrari that isn't made in Italy. It just doesn't seem right.


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## iyeoh

Its like saying the new Nissan GTR is faster than the Ferrari F430 Scuderia, and that is absolutely true. Its like saying that the Nissan GTR corners better, which may be true, and manages a faster lap time, which is definitely true. The Nissan is also four times cheaper. Yes,that's true as well.

And so what? One's a Ferrari and one's a Nissan. In the same way, one's a Made-in-Taiwan frame with stickers, and the other is a Colnago.


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## iyeoh

I remember the 1980s, where I would go to a bike race and get made fun off. 

"This Cannondale with Ultegra/600 is stiffer, lighter and less than half the price of your showboat piece of junk. It shifts precisely and much faster, and it brakes more effectively."

I would bite my tongue and reply:

"Yeah. But it isn't a Master built by THE Master, and not made of tubing designed by the Master himself. Those are not Delta brakes {lol} and if these derailleurs are so bad {as in C-Record index shifting lol} then why does Greg LeMond prefer this stuff to your stuff?" rofl

It was true that the Cannondales/Treks were three times cheaper. My original Master Piu with C-record and first generation Campy SGR clipless pedals and funky "aero" water bottle {rofl} was a very depressing 22 pounds! And the Cannondales were more like 19 pounds.


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## fabsroman

What you had in the 80's is what I salivated over. Instead, I had a Mino Denti Master with Super Record and normal water bottle cages. It weighs just under 22 lbs and I still have it today.


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## iyeoh

Unfortunately, that bike met a very tragic ending, under the wheel of a UPS delivery truck, thanks to a cab that side swiped me.


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## fabsroman

Be happy that you didn't meet an unhappy ending under the tires of a UPS truck. Always better the bike, car, or truck in lieu of me or any other human being.


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## iyeoh

Right at that moment, my thoughts were reversed. Me under the truck and then the bike would be safe lol  The bike was everything to me. Shiny and red and chrome. Oh well.


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## jhamlin38

first of all Seiko makes Grand Seiko colection of watches that rival rolex, Omega, GP, VC, IWC etc in quality, price and finish. Citizen makes a Campanola range of watches with exquisite detail and are also limited and priced as such.
I'm not against asian made products. I've seen very good and very poor products from asia. It depends mostly on the strictness of accepting mediocre products from the manufacturer. 
Somehow, I doubt that Ernesto picked the individuals that will be making the actual framesets. I just don't see that happening and would gladly sell Colnago shares in the brooklyn bridge.


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## iyeoh

jhamlin38 said:


> first of all Seiko makes Grand Seiko colection of watches that rival rolex, Omega, GP, VC, IWC etc in quality, price and finish. Citizen makes a Campanola range of watches with exquisite detail and are also limited and priced as such.
> I'm not against asian made products. I've seen very good and very poor products from asia. It depends mostly on the strictness of accepting mediocre products from the manufacturer.
> Somehow, I doubt that Ernesto picked the individuals that will be making the actual framesets. I just don't see that happening and would gladly sell Colnago shares in the brooklyn bridge.



My intent here is not to get into a flame war, but I would just state my point of view, and its up to us to respectfully agree to disagree.

From my standpoint, a Seiko and a Citizen are Seikos and Citizens. They are not Rolexes, Vaucherons or Patek Phillipes. If I were to want to pay for Rolex, then I am paying a whole lot of money for more than a watch. A Seiko is a more accurate watch because of its quartz movement. Why pay $25,000 for a Rolex Daytona? A $25 digital Casio tells more accurate time. 

Same for Colnago. Its more than a bike frame. You may look at a Colnago and see an overpriced bike frame. To me, its passion. Its excitement.

Either pay up the premium for the brand name and heritage and prestige, or be quiet and let someone else who wants to buy a Colnago buy one for whatever price they want to purchase a Colnago at.

Giants are probably stiffer and lighter than Colnagos. I know they are half the price. Then, by all means, let those who want to buy the more expensive Colnagos do so. I've never heard any Colnago owner give a Giant owner flack for buying a cheaper frame.

You guys that don't mind buying Asian frames, do so. Just don't shift my beloved Colnago's manufacturing to Asia. Again, I am Asian. Born there (not Taiwan). Speak and write the language. You'll have to kill me before you get me to buy an Asian bike.. or car.. or watch. Don't get me started on Shimano. Every well heeled Asian friend I know prefers to drive a European car. 

You can short sell the Colnago shares in the Brooklyn Bridge. I'll even underwrite the put options and syndicate the securities.


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## fabsroman

That post was quite hilarious, especially the second half. If you don't drive Asian cars, what country of manufacture do you drive? Me, I drive Fords and will probably do so until I die. Might get a Mercury or Lincoln, but those are still Fords with added dressing.

I ride two Italian made Colnago's, two Taiwan made Colnagos, and an Italian made Bianchi. For some reason, I just cannot bring myself to race the carbon fiber Cristallo. Probably because I would cry if I wrecked it. I'm planning on buying a C50 and wouldn't race that either. Now, maybe I would race a Dream HX, but the are too much like my Artes to warrant the extra expense. For some reason, I have more of an attachment to the Italian made frames than the Taiwanese ones. It would be much easier for me to throw a made in Taiwan frame into the dumpster than an Italian made one.


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## iyeoh

Don't mind me  lol I wasn't being fully serious... maybe half serious  I like to have my fun too


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## Richieg

jhamlin38 said:


> first of all Seiko makes Grand Seiko colection of watches that rival rolex, Omega, GP, VC, IWC etc in quality, price and finish. Citizen makes a Campanola range of watches with exquisite detail and are also limited and priced as such.
> I'm not against asian made products. I've seen very good and very poor products from asia. It depends mostly on the strictness of accepting mediocre products from the manufacturer.
> Somehow, I doubt that Ernesto picked the individuals that will be making the actual framesets. I just don't see that happening and would gladly sell Colnago shares in the brooklyn bridge.


 Seiko rivals Vacheron?


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## TiDreaming

+1 Iyeoh


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