# 586 replacement question



## cantride55 (Sep 19, 2008)

With a replacement frame in hand due to cracks at the wishbone should I have to pay for the new one to be built or should this be covered by Look?
Am I in need of a reality check or is my head on "right-side-up"?


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## CSquare43 (Feb 6, 2009)

Warranty generally doesn't cover the labor costs involved....only the product itself.

That's not always the case, but as a general rule of thumb it's how it is.

Your shop isn't giving you a break on the breakdown/rebuild cost?


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## cantride55 (Sep 19, 2008)

That makes sense. I guess I'm a little miffed because I wasn't given an option of colour choice or upgrading. I was told that what I got was all they had, hmm sounds strange to me. On the other side of it, I had a 2008 and it was replaced with a 2012 model. I broke the bike down, thought that the distributor for Look Canada would cover the build......they still may as the l.b.s. is going to ask them next week. And yes, there is a break on the re-build for the l.b.s.
The store had difficulty getting the frame re-placed. Funny, they stopped selling Look frames right around the time this all happened. Good news is it was a 2 1/2 month turn around, I was expecting 4 months. 
I had a red/black frame, now have a black and white which is ok as I can switch saddles and stems with my other bike to co-ordinate the colours.
I just feel I was somewhat taken for granted in the customer service experience but, I got a 2012 frame and once built I can continue to enjoy the ride. Overall, I'm pleased, just felt a little pissy about not having a voice.


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## maximum7 (Apr 24, 2008)

You should have had a voice. You should have been able to pick a color and you should have been given the chance to upgrade. 

When I had a issue with my frame, my dealer had to fight long and hard to get Look to replace it. When they finally did, I was given the option to upgrade, which I did. My shop covered the cost to ship and tear down and build. Any good shop should do that, I don't care what anybody says, the shop needs to be going to bat for you and they should cover the build. 
Not too mention my Look dealer is 3 hours away and it took a few trips to take care of this. 
All the dealers near me stopped being dealers, because of no support from Look.

It's obvious Look doesn't need the US market, with guys over-seas like "Greybicycle" posting pics of 695's and 595, like we post pics of Treks. 
It's too bad for Look. They are missing out on a few bucks at the least.


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## Weav (Jun 21, 2009)

maximum7 said:


> You should have had a voice. You should have been able to pick a color and you should have been given the chance to upgrade.
> 
> When I had a issue with my frame, my dealer had to fight long and hard to get Look to replace it. When they finally did, I was given the option to upgrade, which I did. My shop covered the cost to ship and tear down and build. Any good shop should do that, I don't care what anybody says, the shop needs to be going to bat for you and they should cover the build. .


This is why more and more folks are turning to the internet to buy their bikes. Why pay a premium if you aren't going to be taken care of when problems arise. My local LBS would have taken complete care of me, but the shop I bought my Look from would not, that's why I'll never go back to his place ever again. I'll buy local if I can afford it and use the internet if it's something my LBS doesn't carry or is way out of line in pricinng.

BTW, to the OP, where is the wishbone of the bike? Just wondering where that crack occured.


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## cantride55 (Sep 19, 2008)

I may be using the wrong name, I believe the point where the seat tube and chain stays meet behind the bottom bracket is called the wishbone. My cracks appeared on the underside moving upwards on the outside of both chain stays.
I'd like to preface this with I'm not here to trash Look. I have always liked their frames however as I have had this warranty issue I am questioning quite a few things. In Canada Look has one distributor which the dealers contact. From what I know the distributor does not communicate or work with the dealers to resolve issues very well . At least a couple of dealers are fed up with the conflicts and have stopped selling Look frames.
I have e-mailed the distributor a couple of times inquiring why my replacement frame cannot be registered on line, where to buy a set of complete decals (in case I paint the frame) and wheither Look will pay for my re-build, with no response. I think they may defend themselves with the “ we only deal with Look dealers” mantra which would be acceptable if there were Look dealers left in the city. Still, no response to an e-mail? Atleast in the states this guy Justin who drops in here once and awhile may help. In Canada.....nothing, no one.
Imo, and I know very little, Look (Canada) needs to find another distributor. The previous one was helpful, considerate and understood that customer service was serving the customer not a mild irritant to be either wished away or ignored.
I seriously doubt I will ever buy another Look frame, only because of the VERY poor customer service. 
On the positive side, having put 1000 km's on the 2012 frame I can say that the upgrades made to it (relative to my 2008) are good. The carbon front der. hanger is a nice touch and the cable stops for the internal rear brake routing work well. Thay also moved cable entry for the rear brake cable to the right side of the top tube which eliminates cable bunching at the headtube during lefthanded turns. All are improvements...well done.


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## CSquare43 (Feb 6, 2009)

If you're ever having difficulty dealing with a Look dealer/distributor in Canada, you should give Look USA a call...they aren't the Canadian distributor, but are a direct extension of Look France and have gone out of their way on many occasions to help folks out even if they are outside of the US.


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## Chris-X (Aug 4, 2011)

cantride55 said:


> With a replacement frame in hand due to cracks at the wishbone should I have to pay for the new one to be built or should this be covered by Look?
> Am I in need of a reality check or is my head on "right-side-up"?


I'm thinking LOOK did the right thing.

I had an issue with HP, sent a damaged laptop back and was not informed that the color I originally ordered and received, and the default color were different. I b!tched and moaned, because they said they couldn't change the color from the default color, got $75 off, and received the default color which I kind of like.

Looking back, I think I got a little too excited about the whole thing and acted like kind of a jerk. 

If you are tight on funds to build the bike up again, I'd be a little peeved. If not, just pay it. The aggravation you're putting yourself through really isn't worth a couple hundred bucks.


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## maximum7 (Apr 24, 2008)

> If you are tight on funds to build the bike up again, I'd be a little peeved. If not, just pay it. The aggravation you're putting yourself through really isn't worth a couple hundred bucks.


Like I said previously, you're dealer should be footing the bill for the tear down and re-build. 
Look sells frames to the dealer/bike shop. They don't sell the build, nor do they warranty the components. They warrantied their frame. Your bike shop should honor your patronage and step up with service to you. If you're bike shop has a beef with something that will cost about an hour to do, then they should go to Look for compensation. 

All these LBS are complaining about losing to the internet...here's a perfect example why. They won't lower their prices, so they should be competing with amazing service. 

RE: the rest of "cantride55" post. 
I don't know where Look is thriving in America. Maybe close the their headquarters in CA.? If they are in other parts of the US, it's news to me.


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## cantride55 (Sep 19, 2008)

I am not sure that I agree and here’s why:
If the engine in my car died and it was determined to be a manufacturing defect, the car company would ship a new motor and the mechanic would remove and replace. The car company would not send a motor to me, plunk it down and say “oops, here ya go, problem solved”. Under warranty the mechanic would install the motor, I would not have to pay him, the car company would. They f’d up, they would fix it. Why would the mechanic install it for free? Out of the goodness of his heart? It’s good for business? It’s not his responsibility and for me to hold him to that standard I believe to be misguided or wrong.
Same thing here. Look acknowledge manufactured error and replaced the frame however, they plunked it down and basically said “ here ya go, it’s a different year and colour, don't like it, tough, we lived up to the warranty”
The owner of the shop understands how I feel, and while he could not rebuild for free, he did give me a sweet deal on a Zipp 404 with powertap SL ( it was lower than the cost of the powertap SL alone). The I.S.P. needed to be cut to size, if they under cut it would Look send them another frame? Hell no. So why would my LBS build it for free? They are taking a risk, they need to be paid for that risk.


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## Weav (Jun 21, 2009)

Like Maximum 7 said. What do you get for the premium you pay in the LBS over buying online? Hopefully you get taken care of for that rare occurrence where you have to file a warranty claim. If not then the sales tax savings alone should more than take care of a rebuild fee. Just sayin.


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## justin. (Jul 18, 2011)

LOOK Canada (Cycles Lambert) and us (LOOK USA) are two different entities. While our policies should be inline, it seems there may be some differences in this case. When we have anything questionable regarding a warranty, its first taken care of at the dealer it was purchased from. This helps on many levels, but one important aspect is that our retailers know our product well. Should a defect be found we try to find a replacement that is as close as possible. If its not exact, we let the client know ahead of time to make sure they are ok with it. If they are not, we see what other options we have to offer them. Its pretty simple. We've had shops mis-cut frames...and yes, we have helped them out with replacements. Its not ideal because its a waste of a frame, but in the end we want to make our customers happy.


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## cantride55 (Sep 19, 2008)

Thanks Justin. I e-mailed you personally because I did not think it was fair to call you out on this in public. I beleive you have indirectly reinterated what I have been saying. Look Canada and Look France both ignore my e-mails and unless I missed your point, Look USA can not get involved So where does this leave me? 
In Canada I highly doubt that if a frame was undercut a new one would be supplied to the dealer without an invoice attached.

If I bought carpet from a dealer, paid to have it installed and two years later the carpet began to fall apart, the manufactor would under warranty, replace their product
Ok, pop quiz, by show of hands...
How many people think that the company that orginally installed the carpet should do the new install for free? 
How many think that it would be acceptable for the manufactor to send a completely different colour carpet than what was bought?

So why the (I'm Canadian, I'll say) puck is this acceptable? To those who seem to only focus on the LBS give me a break they need to eat too If everything went to online sales, who would help you when you needed a part today? Taxes pave the roads on which I ride, no taxes I might as well buy 36 hole Mavic Open Pro's again cause the expensive wheelsets will be a thing of the past as well

Yes we are talking about bike frames not carpet, but isn't it the same? Costumer service .


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## CSquare43 (Feb 6, 2009)

HEY HEY HEYYYYYY.......

Open Pro's are still some great hoops.......


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## justin. (Jul 18, 2011)

cantride55 said:


> Thanks Justin. I e-mailed you personally because I did not think it was fair to call you out on this in public.


No worries. You already had a thread going. 



cantride55 said:


> ...unless I missed your point, Look USA can not get involved...


Unfortunately so. 



cantride55 said:


> Yes we are talking about bike frames not carpet, but isn't it the same? Costumer service .


As maximum7 has stated, we do hope our dealers take the customer service to the highest level. Performing a tear down and rebuild of a frame doesn't take that much time. For the US market, we are here should any shops have a problem doing so.


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## cantride55 (Sep 19, 2008)

Yes they are They're bomb proof, which would be needed for riding roads which wouldn't be fixed without taxes to pay for it.I have sometimes thought about selling the expensive wheels and going back to trouble free open pro's. My comment wasn't a shot at OP's


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## bikerjohn64 (Feb 9, 2012)

cantride55 said:


> With a replacement frame in hand due to cracks at the wishbone should I have to pay for the new one to be built or should this be covered by Look?
> Am I in need of a reality check or is my head on "right-side-up"?


I just came across this post and could not believe the similar experience (if not the exact) I had.

I had the exact same 2008 Look 586 Red and Black and it too developed a crack in the EXACT same spot. You can see the crack in the finish just behind the crank on the chainstay. Apparently this is where the BB housing/front monocoque mates with the rear triangle(chainstay/seatstay).

The frame was covered under warranty. However the ordeal of poor customer service was one that did not leave me with a great experience. When I brought my frame into the store where it was purchased; I asked the owner for 2 things. Please let me know what colour I can have and is there any chance of paying the difference to upgrade since I was hesitant in having the same issue. Well; it took 4 months before I received any clear indication of when I would get my bike. I emailed the store on a weekly basis and called several times over that time and they too had no idea as "when" the new frame was coming. After 3 month I found out that they were waiting for inventory. Ok; I can live with that since it was January. Waited another few weeks with no further info when all of a sudden I got the call from the bike store saying that they were sending the bike that week. It was a relief since March was around the corner but the owner still didn't know what colour they were sending. How crazy is that? I asked him to find out and by the time he called me back that week; it was to tell me it was there and it was Red and White. Now I don't mean to offend anyone with this comment but my first reaction was "you got to be kidding?!". I hate Red and White as a combo (Please remember that this is only my opinion). I fell in love with the Black/Red combo without even riding it; after I rode it, I knew I had to have it. Either Lambert (who handles LOOK in Canada) or the owner of the bike store really did not have my back or did not care. JUSTIN; I wish somehow you were up here handling this mess. Your policy is the right policy. 
Anyhow; I do apologize for my rant and for diverging from the original thread topic but I wanted to share my experience with LOOK up in Canada. I too did not receive any replies from LOOK in France after sending 3 emails to them explaining my situation while I was waiting to hear any news about the arrival of the new frame. After I received my new bike; I did receive an email from Lambert (whom LOOK France forwarded my emails to) stating the their policy was a replacement frame of the same model in whatever colour was available and that also the bike store owner knew what colour they were sending. OUCH!

Well; here's the part of the story where the thread is answered. After building the bike back up for me on the new frame; the owner asked if it would be OK if he asked for $50 for the labour. I was almost shocked but also expected it somehow. I would just have been happy to walk out with the frame and do it all myself since I do all my own building and work on all my bikes. However, I figure this was a small price to pay in case anything else was to go wrong with the new bike and the warranty is still intact. Should LOOK or the Store have covered the "build" cost? Perhaps. If the bike was purchased as a whole as I did; then yes they should cover the cost for the re-build. If the frame was purchased as a frameset; then no.

Anyways; the bike is a fantastic ride and by far the nicest bike I have owned(so far ). I love the bike but there's nothing I can do about the colour :mad2:. Just my preference.


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## cantride55 (Sep 19, 2008)

Sorry to hear about your frame bikerjohn. Somewhere deep down I hoped that if I spoke up France / Lambert would have atleast paused to consider the requests I had made. It seems like they ignored them.
Update for my situation:
Lambert replied to my emails finally when at the bottom of the last one I sent asked if they needed me to translate it into french? That got them to respond, however they became defensive and attacked me.
Look france replied directing me to the warranty stating a similar frame / colour. So no luck.
As for money, I paid the 100.00 to the lbs, I paid another 200.00 for a different colour saddle and 100.00 for a stem all to coordinate with the new frame colour. I like my stuff to match, so it was a costly warranty issue for me afterall. 400.00 plus tax is not pocket change.

The experience left a sink that I can't wash off. If the 2012 replacement frame broke and Look were making frames in green I may get one of those next time. Yuk, nothinjg wrong with green but not on my bikes thankyou. So I sold the frame. 4 Look frames in my history. Great bikes, love them. I will not spend another cent of my money on Look products. Got myself a 2008 nos Cervelo r3sl and love it. Stiffer than the 586 and as comfortable. The hsc6 fork beats the 3t hands down though and I will miss it.

What I learned is Look imo is not just another frame builder anylonger, they may have forgotten what got them to where they are. If it is too much trouble to include the customer in frame replacement options then wait another couple years, the customer service dept. will be run by one person making cold calls trying to drum up business. Its a shame, they are great frames. Close to $4000.00 and I was left feeling like I owe them a thankyou and how dare I request any thing from them.
Bye bye Look. I'll keep my Time worldstar and R3sl (nice ride crappy workmanship)


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## maximum7 (Apr 24, 2008)

Wow guys!

I am so sorry to hear about this happening to both of you. 
I can't believe Look doesn't let you pic a color. It's utterly ridiculous and I would love to sit down with the people at Look France and listen to them try to explain how this is fair? 

Maybe they need to stop claiming victories won on their pedals (like that even matters) and start paying attention to their customers. 

I'm sorry you're not riding Look anymore. I'll dedicate my next ride to you...lol~!


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## bikerjohn64 (Feb 9, 2012)

That's pretty much my feeling about the company LOOK. The snobbery attitude was not warranted. Sh*t happens; frames will break for one reason or another. However if a product fails; you would expect (and rightly so) a "fair" customer service with some leeway in making things right. 

Cantride55, good on you for being able to part way with LOOK. I just felt let down by my bike shop (for not coming up to bat for me) and for Lambert and LOOK France who just didn't give-a-sh*t about me. So, I too will no longer shop at that bike shop nor will I purchase another LOOK product. There are too many other great companies out there making a difference that care.


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## kramnnim (Feb 24, 2009)

Cantride55, did your frame crack in the same place as bikerjohn64's?

I'd been thinking about buying a certain used 2008 586 frameset, but maybe I should avoid the earlier frames...


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## cantride55 (Sep 19, 2008)

This is two frames out of.....who knows how many? This thread (atleast from my perspective) was more about the customer service side of Look not the 586 frame. The frame rocks (esp. if you can get one at a good price). I believe that if you live in the Usa you wouldn't have the problems that appear to be occuring in Canada. Won't tell you what to do but I'd give it some serious consideration if the price is right for you.


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