# Can't decide which bike, Mercier Galaxy or Tommaso Tiempo



## thomasward00 (Feb 16, 2010)

I have decided on a steel bike and either would be assembled and tuned by my LBS, If anyone has experience with either bike it would be very helpful, and could some of you guys go down the spec list for each and let me know which is the better buy...

Thanks in advance..
Link to Mercier Galaxy
http://www.bikesdirect.com/products/mercier/galaxy.htm
Link to Tommaso site, it is the Tiempo model.
http://www.tommasobikes.com/update/bikes.html


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## thomasward00 (Feb 16, 2010)

I've copied down the specs for both bikes.


Tommaso Tiempo
Frame: Compact Chromoly Frame
Fork: Chromoly 1&#146; Threaded Fork
Front Derailleur: Shimano 2303
Rear Derailleur: Shimano 2300
Shifters: Sunrace STR80 8-Speed
Brakes Levers: Sunrace STR80
Brakes:Tektro Alloy R310A
Chain: KMC
Crankset: Tommaso Triple 52/42/30T, (24 total gears)
Cassette: 12-25 8-Speed
Pedals: N/A
Bottom Bracket: English 68mm Semi-Cartridge
Headset: 1&#148; Threaded Headset
Saddle: Tommaso Sport
Seat Post: Tommaso Aluminum 27.2
Handlebar: Tommaso 25.4mm, Black
Grips: Velo Cork Tape White
Stem: Tommaso 1&#146;x25.4, Black
Tires: Kenda 700x25cc
Wheelset: JY/Weinmann X-Star-18
Weight: 27.6 lbs (54cm without pedal/reflectors)
Color: Blue




Mercier Galaxy
Main Frame	Reynolds 520DB butted Cro-Moly with outer butted seat tube, Double water bottle mounts, Rear Rack Mounts
Rear Triangle Mercier Custom Tapered Cro-Moly, investment cast brake bridge with rack mounts, forged dropout and eyelet
Fork Mercier Custom Butted, Full Cro-Moly, Unicrown Road 1 inch steerer, forged dropout and eyelet
Crankset TruVativ Triple Road 52/42/30T
Bottom Bracket Sealed cartridge
Pedals	Wellgo Alloy Road w/ clips and straps
Front Derailleur Shimano Sora 3304, clamp-on, 28.6mm
Rear Derailleur Shimano Deore M530
Shifters Shimano 8-speed STI, brake and shift from the same lever position
Cassette/Freewheel Shimano HG 8-speed, 11-30T
Chain KMC Z-72
Front Hub Aluminum Alloy Road, Sealed, 32H
Rear Hub Aluminum Alloy Road Sealed, 32H
Spokes	Stainless, 14g
Rims	Alex, R500 Double Wall Road Rims with CNC machined brake surface, 32H
Tires Kenda K-196 Road Tire, 700 X 26c, Presta Valve tubes
Brake Set Aluminum Forged Road, Dual Pivot
Brake Levers Shimano STI
Headset	TH Sealed Mechanism, Black finish
Handlebar Mercier 6061 Butted Road, Anatomical Drops
Stem	Mercier Superlight Road Aluminum, 1 inch 0 Deg, Removable Clamp 25mm
Tape/Grip	Mercier custom cork wrap
Saddle Velo Anatomical Saddle
Seat Post	Mercier Forged Road, Micro Adjust alloy, 250mm, 27.2
Seat Clamp	New Mercier Ultralite alloy, 31.8mm, Lazer etched


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## PJ352 (Dec 5, 2007)

The bikes are similarly spec'd in most regards, but there are some differences you might want to be aware of. 

The BD bike's main triangle has butted tubing, which means material is 'trimmed' inside and usually toward the mid sections where there's minimal stress - all in an effort to save weight. The Tommaso appears to have straight gauge, unless they just don't specify. Both rear triangles appear to be the same (Chromoly). The forks are essentially the same, with a slight edge going to the BD fork for using butted tubing.

Overall, I think the BD bike has an edge on components/ wheelsets, but the STI shifters on the Tommaso (although I'm unfamiliar with them) are interesting. Here's a link to them:
http://www.sunrace.com/en/products/detail/r80?sku=STR80

There's not much in the way of details re: the Sunrace shifters, but if they use a double (inner/ outer) lever, that would be an advantage over the BD bike that (I think) either uses 2300 or Sora shifters which employ a thumb lever to shift to a smaller cog or ring. Not the best if you plan on spending any time in the drops. If not, the BD shifters will suite the purpose. 

Bottom line, though... get the one that (as best as you can determine) will fit, ride and handle best. If you've worked with a LBS on this, ask for opinions on the geo or compare the geo of these bikes to ones that you've tested and fit the best.

EDIT: One afterthought. The gearing on the BD bike is lower than on the Tommaso (11-30 vs 12-25 rear cogs), so if you want or need lower gearing for hilly terrain, the Mercier would have an edge in that regard.


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## thomasward00 (Feb 16, 2010)

I deploy back to Iraq in 3 weeks and it will be coming along with me, they have actually set up some nice riding areas right outside of Baghdad for service members. The Mercier looks to have more features, Reynolds cro moly, I will just need this bike to hold up for my deployment, trust me you wouldn't want the bike shops in Baghdad working on your rig...


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## Mr. Versatile (Nov 24, 2005)

Tough choice. If you need very low gearing for serious climbing, I'd buy the Mercier. If I rode where it's mostly flat, liked close ratio gears for easy spinning and shifting, then I'd get the Tommy.


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## thomasward00 (Feb 16, 2010)

I ordered the Mercier Galaxy, I prefer the classic look, plus my LBS that will be assembling the bike felt that it came with better equipment for roughly the same price.

Plus I emailed Tommaso and that frame is regular Chrome Moly steel, where the Mericer uses Reynolds Chrome Moly.


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## Hooben (Aug 22, 2004)

Really look at the Mercier rear triangle. That is touring geometry and does not seem like a fast or agile bike. The rear wheel is very far from the seat tube and that will usually give a lot of flex. If you are looking to use it for comfort, and not enthusiastic sprinting, then the Mercier is your bike. Be safe in Iraq my friend, and thanks for serving time for the United States.


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## thomasward00 (Feb 16, 2010)

As long as its faster than my old gary fischer mountain bike i'll be fine, I'm just looking for general street, some fitness riding... Not looking to win races....


Thanks


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## thomasward00 (Feb 16, 2010)

Hooben said:


> Really look at the Mercier rear triangle. That is touring geometry and does not seem like a fast or agile bike. The rear wheel is very far from the seat tube and that will usually give a lot of flex. If you are looking to use it for comfort, and not enthusiastic sprinting, then the Mercier is your bike. Be safe in Iraq my friend, and thanks for serving time for the United States.



What also drew me to the Mercier is that it has somewhat of an oldschool 70's or 80's look. It doesn't look space age, and I like that...


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## cs1 (Sep 16, 2003)

thomasward00 said:


> What also drew me to the Mercier is that it has somewhat of an oldschool 70's or 80's look. It doesn't look space age, and I like that...


That's what I like about it too. That frame is worth almost what they're selling the entire bike for. You could probably sell off the parts for $150 to $200, including wheels, and have a real steal, pun intended, of frame.

Surly gets $400 and up for their steel frames with generic tubing.


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## PJ352 (Dec 5, 2007)

cs1 said:


> That's what I like about it too. That frame is worth almost what they're selling the entire bike for. You could probably sell off the parts for $150 to $200, including wheels, and have a real steal, pun intended, of frame.
> 
> *Surly gets $400 and up for their steel frames with generic tubing*.


Actually the Surly (Pacer as one example) uses 4130 chromoly for both its main and rear triangle, which is the same grade steel as Reynolds 520 (simply Reynolds proprietary name). The BD bike only uses the 4130 equivalent for the main triangle, with "Mercier Custom Tapered Cro-Moly" used in the rear triangle. Since the specification is vague, there's a good chance BD uses a lower grade steel (Tange, for example) at the rear.

It could also be argued that quality and workmanship is higher on the Surly, and the BD frame is of minimal value, thus BD's ability to sell the bike at such a low cost.


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## bikesdirect (Sep 9, 2006)

PJ352 said:


> Actually the Surly (Pacer as one example) uses 4130 chromoly for both its main and rear triangle, which is the same grade steel as Reynolds 520 (simply Reynolds proprietary name). The BD bike only uses the 4130 equivalent for the main triangle, with "Mercier Custom Tapered Cro-Moly" used in the rear triangle. Since the specification is vague, there's a good chance BD uses a lower grade steel (Tange, for example) at the rear.
> 
> It could also be argued that quality and workmanship is higher on the Surly, and the BD frame is of minimal value, thus BD's ability to sell the bike at such a low cost.


I appreciate your attempts to be even handed [honestly]

However, the Surly and Mercier are not different in workmanship
both frames from Maxway I think [I know Mercier is and have good reason to think Surly is]

I have seen some rough steel frames; the Mercier is not one of them -- it is same quality as you see on Jamis, Surly, Specialized in 4130

I am adding several high grade steel bikes for 2011 in Motobecane; from Ideal and UEC factories [who both are great in steel]
Tigged 4130 at $300 to $400 in Road, Lugged Road in Reynolds 725 right under $2000, and 4130 29er with XTR -- plus working on CX models -- I like steel {like many old guys do}


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## Peanya (Jun 12, 2008)

Alas, you're not adding any 853 or 953 frames.


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## PJ352 (Dec 5, 2007)

bikesdirect said:


> I appreciate your attempts to be even handed [honestly]
> 
> However, the *Surly and Mercier are not different in workmanship*
> both frames from Maxway I think [I know Mercier is and have good reason to think Surly is]
> ...


Considering you have a vested interest in selling the BD bikes in question, you'll have to understand that your claims are met with some level of skepticism, at least by me.

That aside, I do commend your initiative to add steel bikes in various price ranges. You know the market far better than I, but I'd be interested in seeing a low to mid priced *frame*, mostly because I'm in the market for one.


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## bikesdirect (Sep 9, 2006)

PJ352 said:


> Considering you have a vested interest in selling the BD bikes in question, you'll have to understand that your claims are met with some level of skepticism, at least by me.
> 
> That aside, I do commend your initiative to add steel bikes in various price ranges. You know the market far better than I, but I'd be interested in seeing a low to mid priced *frame*, mostly because I'm in the market for one.



I plan to add lots of steel bikes: they will not be as low cost as we could add; but they will be from Ideal and UEC -- both of whom everyone in the industry agrees do fantastic work.

With steel it is hard to say what is low to mid price; as OEM pricing on steel goes from less than aluminum to mor than Ti [Ti is about 3 times cost of CF; CF is about 5 times more than AL -- but steel can be anywhere in price]

Our steel frames in tig will be a bit over oe cost of Aluminum frames
Our steel frames in lugged will be right at oe cost of CF frames

And for full road bikes: I want something nice under $300 all the way up to lugged with Red group at close to $2000. Also working on more steel CX, MTB, and City bikes.

I like high-grade steel


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## cs1 (Sep 16, 2003)

PJ352 said:


> Considering you have a vested interest in selling the BD bikes in question, you'll have to understand that your claims are met with some level of skepticism, at least by me.


Why so skeptical? At least he is an active participant and sponsor on the boards. I've seen several threads where BD actually asks for ideas and input on current and future models. The most recent one was for future steel bikes.


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## PJ352 (Dec 5, 2007)

cs1 said:


> Why so skeptical? At least he is an active participant and sponsor on the boards. I've seen several threads where BD actually asks for ideas and input on current and future models. The most recent one was for future steel bikes.


If you look back on any of my previous posts relating to BD, you'll find that my 'arguments' with Mike are primarily focused on his numerous, unsubstantiated claims - most regarding an online retailers ability to fit riders more reliably than LBS's and/ or provide services on a par with LBS's. I generally don't take him to task over his products, unless he 'stretches' the truth, which he's been known to do.

As far as Mike seeking opinions input on future products, while I don't see a negative in doing so, one could argue that by doing so he demonstrates his vested interest in selling bikes. If you don't see a conflict of interest, so be it, but to an extent, I do. Thus, my so called skepticism.

Lastly, if you notice, I do give BD credit for their steel offering, and would consider something from them along the lines of a Reynolds 853 frame if it were offered. 

So, you may say I'm skeptical. I say I call them as I see them.


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## cs1 (Sep 16, 2003)

PJ352 said:


> As far as Mike seeking opinions input on future products, while I don't see a negative in doing so, one could argue that by doing so he demonstrates his vested interest in selling bikes.


If by "vested interest" you mean


> a special interest in protecting or promoting that which is to one's own personal advantage.


Then yes he has a vested interest. Considering he's in business to make money then offering the customer what he wants is his job. Does go over the top on occassion in his marketing? Yes, but so do did the late great Billy Mays. Can you imagine if Billy was doing BD commercials? I'd buy a bike from Billy.


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## PJ352 (Dec 5, 2007)

cs1 said:


> If by "vested interest" you mean
> 
> Then yes he has a vested interest. Considering he's in business to make money then offering the customer what he wants is his job. *He does go over the top on occassion *in his marketing. But do did the late great Billy Mays. Can you imagine if Billy was doing BD commercials?


"Over the top". Good way of putting it.  

While we both agree that there's a 'vested interest' at play, I'd _probably_ take it a step further than you and say that (IMO/E) that precludes Mike from (at times) providing more objective/ useful feedback to members. So, while he's offering them products that they ask for and want (a good thing) his methods of getting to the ultimate goal (selling bikes) are 'somewhat biased'. 

I'm of the opinion that sales people can remain somewhat objective _and_ make a living selling their products, but thus far that opinion and my experiences have been at near polar opposites (thus the skepticism). As always, YMMV.


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## Dave Hickey (Jan 27, 2002)

cs1 said:


> I've seen several threads where BD actually asks for ideas and input on current and future models. The most recent one was for future steel bikes.


Did you read that thread?...The bikes were already produced. That wasn't about opinions...it was about announcing a new product offering...That's what ads are supposed to be for...

There have been examples where Mike asked for opinions on future products but that steel thread was not one of them...I filed that one as "over to top" and lost interest in the company once again...Ironically, I was seriously looking at the Kilo WT as a winter bike..After that thread, I voted with my wallet and bought an Origin 8 Del Pasdo instead.


I've purchased bikes from Mike and had no issues....I've never faulted the product...I've had, and still do, have issues with the marketing methods used on RBR..


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## bikesdirect (Sep 9, 2006)

Dave Hickey said:


> Did you read that thread?...The bikes were already produced. That wasn't about opinions...it was about announcing a new product offering...That's what ads are supposed to be for...
> 
> There have been examples where Mike asked for opinions on future products but that steel thread was not one of them...I filed that one as "over to top" and lost interest in the company once again...Ironically, I was seriously looking at the Kilo WT as a winter bike..After that thread, I voted with my wallet and bought an Origin 8 Del Pasdo instead.
> 
> ...



Dave

I think you are speaking of my post entitled* Interested In High-grade Steel Luuged Bike? Which Level *

In which I ask "If you wanted a high-grade steel lugged bike like this; what level? spec? price? would be most interesting to you? Double? Triple? Compact? With eyelets? Carbon fork or totalling traditional with tapered 4130 type fork?"
Maybe I did not word it correctly.
maybe you do not understand how bikes can be handled thru factory; if you have a good relationship with then; as we do.

I had two samples bikes for months before I made the post.

I had ordered frames by the time I made the post.

But we order a lot from the factory; have components following all the time.

Could build these bikes with steel or CF forks at 1 day notice

Could build with double or triple in a days notice

With a few days; could use Mavic, shimano, or Vuelta wheels [from $200 retail to $700 retail wheelsets]

No issue on using from our other bookings Apex, 105, Rival, Ultegra, Force, Ultegra, Red, or DA -- could use triple or traditional or compact cranks.

Could build these bikes at target prices from $1095 to $2800 - easy;

Could have changed to chrome frames in 7 days notice.

Lots of options even once the long lead time on frames is nearing its end [which it did about 1 week after the original post]

People are always looking for something sinister -- but there are much better places to look than bike forum posts that ask for bike spec input. IMHO

-------

After the original post: I did decide a lot on which bikes; which specs; which price points and motivation of the potential buyers. My opinion is: in a couple of weeks [about 6 weeks after original post] -- we will have a route for people to get a super deal on high-grade lugged steel road that is unequalled by seller.

------

I would also add: I love steel frames; we have several and are adding at least a dozen high grade steel bikes in 2011.


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