# Question For Colnago Owners



## koyaanisqatsi (Aug 5, 2009)

Tell me why I should buy a bike based on a Colnago frame for a fast, even stage race-worthy road bike. One of my criteria for a frame is that it have a traditional geometry...i.e. a horizontal top tube. I've looked at Pinarello and there is mush to like to like about them. But, I read too much about cracked or broken Pinarello frames. So Colnago seems like a good choice. I know that there are many other options. I've looked to the C-50 and the Colnago Extreme Power 2008 Frameset. It's a good time to buy a bike because many shops are running sales on older stock right now.

_Any_ comments are welcome. TIA.


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## Mapei (Feb 3, 2004)

They're balanced and steady underneath you. The C-50, at least, rides very softly and smoothly. They don't handle with a flick of the wrist, but when you are fatigued and your abilities are failing you, this can be an advantage. Colnagos are very much an all-day bicycle. ...An all-day bike that, whether it be placebo-effect, alchemy or something the maker ain't telling us, seems to want to go very fast.


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## Gnarly 928 (Nov 19, 2005)

I love my CX-1 for stage racing, for club rides, for crits. It is not a level top tube frame though. It slopes some. It is the 'new' Colnago that all the pro teams were saying was needed..supposedly an improvment on the C-50, EP, EC line...don't know about that as I have not ridden any of those last three. One of my teammates raced an EP last year and now is on a CX-1...He says it is an improvment, a big improvment..

I like the robustness of the frame. It has alloy in all the places where I've seen superlight carbon frames have problems. No need to baby the CX-1. Mine is built at about 16.4 lbs with a comfy Flite saddle. Not the lightest frame available but not scary light...I always cringed when I hit a hard pothole on my Look or my CR-1 Scott....waiting for the fork to snap off or the wheels to go seperate ways...No worries like that on the Colnago. 

Reasonable price, too, for a Colnago..Made in the east somewhere, if that bums you out..Good handler, quite bearable on long days (Hope so because I am riding a 12hr Ultra TT on mine tomorrow) and climbs well...(again, tomorrow about 13,000' vertical feet of climbing involved in this course, so I need the help)


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## koyaanisqatsi (Aug 5, 2009)

*Good answers*

Thanks Mapie and Gnarly. The comfort factor on long rides is important. I simply can't tolerate a sloped top tube because I come from an era when the sloped "top" and down tubes meant the bike was a girl's bike, and I guess I'm a male chauvinist. It's getting hard to find the traditional geometry frames, so I need to act fast I think.

What's missing I guess, at this point, are the _compelling reasons_ to buy a Colnago vs. a Pinarello or Felt or... I've spent hours at roadbikereview.com and hours looking at Internet distributors Web sites. It's sale time for remaining older stock.

I have a Lynskey 330 (Custom Level 3 with full Campy) titanium on order and I'm sure I'll like it. I'm just looking for one last bike, of a frame type that I don't have to complete my stable. Maybe a Paketa Magesium? I'm getting a bit older, but I still want to ride. Maybe a good traditional steel Italian frame with all the high-end components would do...I was _very happy_ with a steel frame Takara road bike that I bought in the late 1970s and haven't rode anything quite like it since I traded it in on a nice Trek 520 around 1986 or so. All I can say about that trade-in deal is "mistakes were made."

These are hard decisions. Thus, I'm looking for insight and comments from those who have Colnagos.


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## fabsroman (Jul 14, 2006)

koyaanisqatsi said:


> Thanks Mapie and Gnarly. The comfort factor on long rides is important. I simply can't tolerate a sloped top tube because I come from an era when the sloped "top" and down tubes meant the bike was a girl's bike, and I guess I'm a male chauvinist. It's getting hard to find the traditional geometry frames, so I need to act fast I think.
> 
> What's missing I guess, at this point, are the _compelling reasons_ to buy a Colnago vs. a Pinarello or Felt or... I've spent hours at roadbikereview.com and hours looking at Internet distributors Web sites. It's sale time for remaining older stock.
> 
> ...


If you want a steel frame, how about the Colnago Master XL in PR82 (i.e., Sarronni) or the other two schemes it is offered in? Talk about a dying breed. Not only does it have a traditional horizontal top tube, but it is steel. I'm going to try to beg one out of my wife this spring with the promise that I will not build it up until after we get a house.

Me, I love all my Colnagos. The Oval Krono is a little harsh on rough roads, and I have yet to get a chance to ride my C50. All in all, they are the best bikes I have ridden, not that I have ridden anywhere close to all the bikes out there.


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## il sogno (Jul 15, 2002)

I have a Colnago and a Look. IMO the Colnago is better. You can relax when you're on a Colnago. It is both composed and sporty at the same time.


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## nicensleazy (Aug 3, 2008)

koyaanisqatsi said:


> Tell me why I should buy a bike based on a Colnago frame for a fast, even stage race-worthy road bike. One of my criteria for a frame is that it have a traditional geometry...i.e. a horizontal top tube. I've looked at Pinarello and there is mush to like to like about them. But, I read too much about cracked or broken Pinarello frames. So Colnago seems like a good choice. I know that there are many other options. I've looked to the C-50 and the Colnago Extreme Power 2008 Frameset. It's a good time to buy a bike because many shops are running sales on older stock right now.
> 
> _Any_ comments are welcome. TIA.



I'm not going to tell you why you should by a Colnago. But once you do......you will realise with a very satisfying smile on your face why you did!


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## fabsroman (Jul 14, 2006)

nicensleazy said:


> I'm not going to tell you why you should by a Colnago. But once you do......you will realise with a very satisfying smile on your face why you did!


Exactly. The OP should take some Colnagos out for test rides. Me, I bought my Cristallo without ever having ridden it, and it turned out to be an awesome purchase. That was my first Colnago back in 2006. Now, they are pretty much the only frames I look at.


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## Kai Winters (Aug 23, 2009)

When buying a Colnago you are also becoming part of the history of the bike and the greats that have ridden them.
There are many great bikes out there and many of them have their own histories behind them.
You buy a Colnago because you WANT a Colnago.


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## koyaanisqatsi (Aug 5, 2009)

I live in far Western New York State. It's really like a 3rd world country here. I doubt that I can find a Colnago dealer locally in order to test ride a bike. I suppose that is one of many reasons I'm asking the question.

I've seen the Colnago steel frame bike, can't remember what online dealer, but I can find it. That's a reasonable option.

BUT, I can get a traditional geometry steel frame from a few manufacturers: Cinelli, Torelli, etc. So Colnago is not the only company that can give me tradition.

Maybe I'm nit-picking but someone has to close the deal ;-). Now is the time for me to act if I'm going to make any purchase.


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## alex0220 (Aug 23, 2008)

What about a Pegoretti Marcelo?


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## koyaanisqatsi (Aug 5, 2009)

A Pegoretti Marcelo might be OK. But why that bike? We're drifting into uncharted waters. Why not a Colnago C-50 or one of their other models with a traditional geometry? Ans.: The C-50, unless on sale, is probably more than I'd want to spend on just the frameset.

But this is an interesting thread for my purposes. I'm open to any suggestions within the one parameter I've stated. I'm hoping for some compelling reasons. Comfort, as a couple people have noted as a Colnago characteristic, is a good reason. Would Eddy Merckx have cared about comfort? I don't think so. I'm no Eddy Merckx, and the Eddy Merckx
Premium Classic Frameset looks very attractive at Full Cycle looks good. Full Cycle also handles Colnago. One problem is that I end up looking at pictures of desirable bikes that are "currently not available".




alex0220 said:


> What about a Pegoretti Marcelo?


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## Kai Winters (Aug 23, 2009)

koyaanisqatsi said:


> I live in far Western New York State. It's really like a 3rd world country here.


I hear you. I'm in the Watertown area and a Colnago is a seldom seen bike...other than my old girl.

The C50 and EPS are their high end frames. You can get a Colnago for less.
I wonder why you have chosen Colnago? They are not an inexpensive frame. There are many frame manufacturers that make great frames and outfit them with very nice components for much less than the cost of a C50 frame alone.

What type of riding do you do? are planning to do?

Colnago frames have a very nice ride. They also handle quite well but are not "cruisers" in my opinion. To me it's like using a quarter horse as a plow mare...just not right and you will be dissatisfied with the results.
Buy a Colnago because you want to own and ride a Colnago.
Persuasion as you're asking should not be necessary.


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## fabsroman (Jul 14, 2006)

koyaanisqatsi said:


> A Pegoretti Marcelo might be OK. But why that bike? We're drifting into uncharted waters. Why not a Colnago C-50 or one of their other models with a traditional geometry? Ans.: The C-50, unless on sale, is probably more than I'd want to spend on just the frameset.
> 
> But this is an interesting thread for my purposes. I'm open to any suggestions within the one parameter I've stated. I'm hoping for some compelling reasons. Comfort, as a couple people have noted as a Colnago characteristic, is a good reason. Would Eddy Merckx have cared about comfort? I don't think so. I'm no Eddy Merckx, and the Eddy Merckx
> Premium Classic Frameset looks very attractive at Full Cycle looks good. Full Cycle also handles Colnago. One problem is that I end up looking at pictures of desirable bikes that are "currently not available".


Ultimately, you need to get a frame/bike that "moves" you. You need to get one that you love. One that will inspire you to ride it. One that you will feel good about swinging your leg over. When I was deciding on my frames, I never really asked people for advice. I kind of new what I wanted. Like you, price was an issue with the first frame and I almost went with a Bianchi instead of a Colnago. However, I found a Cristallo new for $2,500 delivered, and that was good enough for me and I love the bike.

I'm sure you are already leaning one way or another. It probably isn't toward a Colnago, but you want to be able to say that you bought what you bought because the guys on a Colnago board could not convince you otherwise. This is kind of like debating over a Ferrari, Lamborghini, or Porsche without ever having driven them.


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## koyaanisqatsi (Aug 5, 2009)

*Watertown?*

Watertown=snow! That's about all I know about Watertown, except that it's S, SE or E of Lake Lake Ontario which doesn't freeze over in the winter. I'm down near Jamestown, NY. It's _so_ isolating here after living in the Washington, DC area for 20 years where you could often bike in the winter.

Well, I want the best bike I can afford. The Pinarellos have a reputation for cracking and/or breaking. I didn't really choose Colnago, more like asking why people bought them and liked them. There seems to be not enough compelling reasons for me to buy one. But... older model year C50s are still out there and at a more reasonable price. At least until this year the Colnagos have been offered with the traditional, non-sloping top tube. It appears that, other than on custom made bikes, that geometry will soon be history. Traditional Italian name. That's about it.

I plan on doing long and fast (as fast as I can) recreational riding, the odd and sundry TT or criterium and maybe a club ride. I don't see myself as a cruiser...I'd buy a cyclo-cross bike for that, given the condition of some of the roads around here. I have always preferred riding alone, just as I preferred running alone. This will be the last bike I ever buy, so I want it to be a very good one. I've never owned a high-end bike, although I have a Lynskey on order. It's now or never.

I _do_ think one should have a reason for buying a particular bike. I haven't seen a Colnago being ridden in any of the many bike races I've watched this year. Most people like their Colagnos and maybe that should be enough. I suppose I was lucky to stumble on my late 1970s Takara in a hole in the wall, dark and dingy bike ship, in a broken down area of Buffalo NY. That steel frame bike was as ridable a bike for me as I've ever owned. No gloves, no padded shorts or helmet. That bike was somehow just right for me, but the components were nothing special. That was dumb luck.

The Eddy Merckx Premium Classic Frameset @http://fullcyclebikes.com/itemdetails.cfm?libid=36771 looks right for me. Clean design. Add the right components and it may be just right or....just wrong. Of course that frameset is listed as "	Sorry, this item is currently not available. Please check back."

The two local bike shops sell and _push_ Trek and Specialized. Companies like Trek and Specialized often start trying to run the bike shops once they get in. I want neither, although I have older models of each. Maybe I'm over-analyzing. Buy what attracts me and live with it.

I'll wait for more responses if any. Sometimes, someone just hits the right note with what they say or write...and that, whatever it is, would be enough. For example, many people are quite passionate about their Pinarello Paris, Prince, Dogma, etc.

On roadbikereview.com someone bought a Serotta Meivici for $22,000 and that person doesn't really like the bike...rated it 3 out of 5 stars. Imagine that.

Thanks for your additional input.



Kai Winters said:


> I hear you. I'm in the Watertown area and a Colnago is a seldom seen bike...other than my old girl.
> 
> The C50 and EPS are their high end frames. You can get a Colnago for less.
> I wonder why you have chosen Colnago? They are not an inexpensive frame. There are many frame manufacturers that make great frames and outfit them with very nice components for much less than the cost of a C50 frame alone.
> ...


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## fabsroman (Jul 14, 2006)

Where in the DC area are you from? I've lived in Montgomery County, Maryland my entire life. We are planning on moving to Howard County in a year or two. I raced in the area during the mid to late 80's as a junior, and just got back into racing in 2007.

The reason I bought a Colnago is because it was what I wanted in the mid 80's when I was riding/racing my Trek 560. One was even hanging in the shop at College Park Bikes when my parents bought me my Mino Denti there. The reason I got the Mino Denti was that the frame was $450 versus $650 for the Colnago. My second choice was a Pinarello and my third choice was a De Rosa. Now, I have 5 Colnagos, a Bianchi, and the Mino Denti. I still want a Pinarello and a De Rosa, and have been looking at the Pinarello Dogma 60.1 that just came out. However, that will have to wait until after we buy a house. When I was buying my bike in 2006, I looked at tons of manufacturers, and like you, really did not want to go with Trek or Specialized. It pretty much went in this order: Colnago, Denti, Pinarello, De Rosa, Bianchi, Orbea, Merckx and I did actually look at Specialized and Trek. Ultimately, I was going to settle for a Bianchi 928 carbon frame because it was $1,800 new. The lowest priced Colnago frame in the US was $3,500. I couldn't justify the price difference. I got a deal on the Cristallo for $2,500 and went with it. Later on I bought a Bianchi FG Lite frame off of E-bay, and while I like it, I definitely like the Cristallo way more. Wait a couple more years and I'll be able to give you ride reports on Pinarello and De Rosa.

Still hoping to get a Colnago Master XL in PR82 (Saronni) because that was the color frame hanging in the bike shop back in the mid 80's.


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## Kai Winters (Aug 23, 2009)

koyaanisqatsi said:


> Watertown=snow! That's about all I know about Watertown, except that it's S, SE or E of Lake Lake Ontario which doesn't freeze over in the winter.


Lake Ontario freezes over in the winter...solid freaking ice from end to end...hell the St. Lawrence freezes over lol.

I'm only 8 miles from Lake Ontario and ride by it quite often...winter sucks here but the roads are near perfect for cycling...

I do not know what to say regarding a Colnago at this point.
I do suggest if you are going to buy a bike at this price point, don't until you are passionate about the frame. It doesn't matter what the frame is...wait until you find one that makes you say "that is the frame I want".
Have you checked shops that carry Colnago? There must be one within driving distance that does and may have one you can ride. One of my favorite shops is Belmont Wheel Works in Belmont MA...I used to live near there and was in the area last week visiting my daughter...they carry Colnagos...many many Colnagos and had a good selection of the CLX....Asian made frame but very nice, curved top tube though...meh...built up and ready to ride.
Search for a shop within driving distance that has one you can test ride...ride it...perhaps this will eliminate it from your list or put it on top...
Good luck

I have a 25 year old Colnago frame that was a joy to ride/race.
I opted for a Merlin Ti 10 years ago over a Colnago because I wanted a bike that could take a beating without worry about paint damage, etc. I am saving now for my next bike and it will be a Colnago without a doubt...


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## B2 (Mar 12, 2002)

I'm not sure if Pinarello deserves a reputation for breaking, but the handling is entirely different from Colnago. I just sold a Pinarello Paris Carbon and bought a used C50 (used to own a C40). The difference is like night and day. Maybe I'm just not a good enough bike handler for the Pinarello, but there is no way I could hit the apex and groove the corners like I can on the C50. The C50 is steady and predictable when descending. The Pinarello was quite lively and less easy to control (for me). I would say I descend 5 - 10 mph faster on the C50 where there are tight turns. I just didn't have the confidence that I could hit the line I wanted with the Pinarello and toned it down some as a consequence. 

I just did 80 miles with 9,000' of climbing earlier today and with exception of a couple of really tight hairpins I didn't even have to hardly hit the brakes. I was able to aggressively and predictably dive into the apex with good speed and slide wide again out to the shoulder holding the speed the entire corner. My C40 was like this too. If you want a great descender. Go with the Colnago!


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## koyaanisqatsi (Aug 5, 2009)

True, but...there are probably a 100 bikes out there that will move me. And perhaps many more than that will disappoint me. I was leaning to the Pinarello Prince...on sale at a good price, but I've written abut my concerns there. I don't think the Colnago C50 or EPS with full Campy Record will disappoint me. In reality, I can easily afford just about any bike I choose to buy...but I'm trying to avoid spending $ foolishly. I've read the advertising brochures and Web site boilerplate for many bikes...they all say pretty much the same things. But for people out there, with their own sets of riding strengths and weaknesses, who ride these bikes under all varieties of distances road conditions, a Colnago probably distinguishes itself in some tangible way. [Maybe not...I still can't explain why my late 1970s, $190, steel frame Takara was so rideable for me, even under very challenging conditions.] The high end Pinarello and Colnago carbon frames both have only a two year warranty. That's a difference that counts to me. But what about the ride characteristics. Do pedal strokes transmit all the power to the rear wheel? Is the ride comfortable (already established as "true" I think)? It's the little things about the bike that only Colnago riders would know that I want to hear, good or bad. It may be things you no longer even think about.

I apologize if I come across as harsh. This isn't intended as "harsh interrogation", but rather torture. Just kidding! Maybe it's time I got on my 20 year-old bikes and remind myself what their weaknesses are.

P.S. What moves you about the Colnago? Seems like a fair question.



fabsroman said:


> Ultimately, you need to get a frame/bike that "moves" you. You need to get one that you love. One that will inspire you to ride it. One that you will feel good about swinging your leg over. When I was deciding on my frames, I never really asked people for advice. I kind of new what I wanted. Like you, price was an issue with the first frame and I almost went with a Bianchi instead of a Colnago. However, I found a Cristallo new for $2,500 delivered, and that was good enough for me and I love the bike.
> 
> I'm sure you are already leaning one way or another. It probably isn't toward a Colnago, but you want to be able to say that you bought what you bought because the guys on a Colnago board could not convince you otherwise. This is kind of like debating over a Ferrari, Lamborghini, or Porsche without ever having driven them.


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## koyaanisqatsi (Aug 5, 2009)

*fabsroman*

I lived in Reston VA, from 1984 to 1989 and then moved to Sterling, VA, moving back to WNY in late 2004. By 2004, development had ruined eastern Loudoun County for biking. My favorite rides were into DC on a Saturday, hit a museum on the mall (with the Dutch wing of the National Gallery being my favorite), stop in Georgetown on the way out for lunch or dinner and then make the long ride back. The bike trails were quite challenging in VA close to the Potomac. Of course, I'd take the bike trail as far out as Purcellville sometimes. I did the Skyline Drive ride from Front Royal once...strangely enough, it seemed pretty easy to me. In the summer heat, the trails were pretty deserted. I enjoyed much of my time in the DC area, but it got to be too congested and I just no longer enjoyed it.

I never raced and almost always rode alone. Occasionally rode with a friend from work. The club rides were too dependent on the whims of others. I guess I enjoyed the quiet solitude of riding alone. And I stopped cycling for my last few years in VA when I took up Tae Kwon Do very seriously.

My goal now is to get into the riding shape I was at my peak when in VA. That means _a lot_ of hard work for me. I'm older, way overweight, and have gotten little exercise recently. The bike should help.

As much as I disliked the DC congestion, it's not possible to convey the sense of isolation I feel in my small, rural home town. I can't even get cable TV. DishTV is a possibility. The switch to DTV has been a disaster for me...I'm at the reception "cliff". If atmospheric conditions are very good, I get 5 broadcast TV stations. I've had at least two bears in my back yard this past spring with one trying to break in my back door one night...my loaded Glock 19 was MIA. I came home one evening and there was the big one not 50 feet from me when I stepped out the back door...he didn't run from me as expected. He wanted the cat food I'd put out and kept coming towards me...I wasn't really scared as he didn't seem angry. My feral cat is now missing, and I'm sure I heard coyotes when I stepped out onto my back porch a few minutes ago. Coyotes love cats. The Internet and my ability to buy the Sunday NY Times fairly locally save me from complete ignorance of world events. And I won't get into the mythical "small town values". Sorry, had to vent.

As I type this, I'm looking for a local Colnago dealer AGAIN. There's one 76 miles away with very limited stock, the same shop (a Pro Shop in fact) that I bought my custom Lynskey from. He has a 2005 60 cm C50. I ride a 54 cm, so that wouldn't be a good test ride. He carries the Felt F1...I actually took a short test ride on one and it was a bit "twitchy", but I wasn't accustomed to the bike at all. Would he order a Colnago for me to test ride? I doubt it. You can see my test ride dilemma.

Without a long drive someplace, I'd be unable to test ride any bike of interest. A knowledgeable, honest Internet distributor is my best bet. But a Colnago test ride seems unlikely. So ya'll are my composite test rider.

You have a lot of bikes and have looked at a lot of bikes, you your opinion counts a lot. I too looked at the Master XL (Saronni). Beautiful bike. Saronni is Red, right?

B2 reports that he completed a long ride Sat. with a lot of climbing and descending on a C40, all with confidence and comfort. This is useful input. 




fabsroman said:


> Where in the DC area are you from? I've lived in Montgomery County, Maryland my entire life. We are planning on moving to Howard County in a year or two. I raced in the area during the mid to late 80's as a junior, and just got back into racing in 2007.
> 
> The reason I bought a Colnago is because it was what I wanted in the mid 80's when I was riding/racing my Trek 560. One was even hanging in the shop at College Park Bikes when my parents bought me my Mino Denti there. The reason I got the Mino Denti was that the frame was $450 versus $650 for the Colnago. My second choice was a Pinarello and my third choice was a De Rosa. Now, I have 5 Colnagos, a Bianchi, and the Mino Denti. I still want a Pinarello and a De Rosa, and have been looking at the Pinarello Dogma 60.1 that just came out. However, that will have to wait until after we buy a house. When I was buying my bike in 2006, I looked at tons of manufacturers, and like you, really did not want to go with Trek or Specialized. It pretty much went in this order: Colnago, Denti, Pinarello, De Rosa, Bianchi, Orbea, Merckx and I did actually look at Specialized and Trek. Ultimately, I was going to settle for a Bianchi 928 carbon frame because it was $1,800 new. The lowest priced Colnago frame in the US was $3,500. I couldn't justify the price difference. I got a deal on the Cristallo for $2,500 and went with it. Later on I bought a Bianchi FG Lite frame off of E-bay, and while I like it, I definitely like the Cristallo way more. Wait a couple more years and I'll be able to give you ride reports on Pinarello and De Rosa.
> 
> Still hoping to get a Colnago Master XL in PR82 (Saronni) because that was the color frame hanging in the bike shop back in the mid 80's.


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## fabsroman (Jul 14, 2006)

koyaanisqatsi said:


> True, but...there are probably a 100 bikes out there that will move me. And perhaps many more than that will disappoint me. I was leaning to the Pinarello Prince...on sale at a good price, but I've written abut my concerns there. I don't think the Colnago C50 or EPS with full Campy Record will disappoint me. In reality, I can easily afford just about any bike I choose to buy...but I'm trying to avoid spending $ foolishly. I've read the advertising brochures and Web site boilerplate for many bikes...they all say pretty much the same things. But for people out there, with their own sets of riding strengths and weaknesses, who ride these bikes under all varieties of distances road conditions, a Colnago probably distinguishes itself in some tangible way. [Maybe not...I still can't explain why my late 1970s, $190, steel frame Takara was so rideable for me, even under very challenging conditions.] The high end Pinarello and Colnago carbon frames both have only a two year warranty. That's a difference that counts to me. But what about the ride characteristics. Do pedal strokes transmit all the power to the rear wheel? Is the ride comfortable (already established as "true" I think)? It's the little things about the bike that only Colnago riders would know that I want to hear, good or bad. It may be things you no longer even think about.
> 
> I apologize if I come across as harsh. This isn't intended as "harsh interrogation", but rather torture. Just kidding! Maybe it's time I got on my 20 year-old bikes and remind myself what their weaknesses are.
> 
> P.S. What moves you about the Colnago? Seems like a fair question.


See, when I bought my Cristallo in 2006, I was going from the 1985 Mino Denti to the 2006 Cristallo. I was going from steel, friction down tube shifters, 12 speeds, and 22 pounds to carbon fiber, brifters, 20 speeds, and just over 15 pounds. The first time I rode the Cristallo I was in heaven. Every time I swing my leg over that bike, it just feels right and the world feels good. There have been a couple of times I got on that bike and thought "This is how life should be". The Artes and Bianchi are my race bikes. For some reason, the feeling is different. However, I do feel at home on the Artes. The Bianchi takes a little more work to put it through the corners smoothly and if feels as though it has more flex than the Arte or the Cristallo. However, that might be a result of the wheelset I was using. I still have to test it with a different wheelset. The Artes and Cristallo are virtually the same. Exact same geometry and components, but the Cristallo has a training set of wheels on it and I use built up Zipps on the Arte for racing. Using the same wheels on both frames, they feel the same to me. I just finished building up a C50 right after I hurt my back. I thought my back would be better by now, but it isn't. So, I only have 2 miles on the C50 so far just to dial it in. I'll give you a report on it if my back, knee, and ankle get to 80%.

My Oval Krono can be a harsh frame, but the TT course I use it on twice a year is a terrible course. I'm hoping they get some stimulus money so they can repave it. Everybody complains about the asphalt on that course, even the guys with the Cervelo P4's. Anyway, the Oval Krono is fast. In 2007 I came 18 seconds from breaking the hour mark on 40km. Didn't do too much TTing in 2008 and this past season has been a nightmare as far as racing is concerned. The Oval Krono is stiff and beautiful. LOL


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## koyaanisqatsi (Aug 5, 2009)

*Lake Ontario and Colnago*

Check http://www.warwickhughes.com/climate/cool5.htm . It is as I said. Lake Ontario rarely freezes over..it's a deep lake with with mostly open water. That's why you are subject to lake-effect snow all winter every winter. Even Lake Erie doesn't always freeze over completely...usually a small spot in the center that doesn't quite freeze. But we can get lake-effect snow from as far away as Lake Huron.

Checking again, and I guess that is another reason why I'm asking for input, I can't find any bike shop nearby that is a Colnago distributor. There is a shop up in Buffalo, the same shop I bought my Lynskey from, but his one remaining C50 is a 60 cm and I ride a 54 cm. His one remaining Colnago Ferrari 60th Limited is a 59 cm. I know of no other shop within 100 miles that distributes Colnago framesets. A test ride doesn't seem to be an option, and that is another reason to ask others about Colnago. So far, no one has said they don't like their Colnago at all. I'll still look and make a couple phone calls...there are some bike shops not too far away with no Web sites or a Web site, but no list of bikes stocked. I didn't have this problem in Northern VA. But this is the northern tip of Appalachia and the people still here are mostly just hanging on.


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## fabsroman (Jul 14, 2006)

I'm pretty familiar with Reston and Sterling. My wife lived over there while I was dating her. When I spent the night at her place, I woke up at 5:00 in the morning so I could try to avoid the traffic on the toll road and the beltway to get back to my house and do work. If I left at 6:00, it was a nightmare. So, I would usually get up at 5:00, roll out of bed, grab a cup of coffee in a travel mug, and head to the car. I was just telling that story 2 weeks ago at my sister's wedding.

I did Tuesday/Thursday point races in McLean back in the 80's. In the early 90's I hunted deer in Loudon County. Actually got my first deer in Loudon County.

I hear you about the congestion. That is why we are moving to western Howard County. Montgomery County is just nuts with development and traffic. Right now I am living in a home that was a cow pasture 12 years ago. Farms that I used to hunt on 5 miles down the street that were huge cornfields are now huge cookie cutter developments. It really makes me understand what my father was talking about 30 years ago when he pointed to a parking lot in PG County and said "I used to hunt quails here." I'm sure I was looking at him like he was crazy.

In western Howard County, the minimum lot size is 3 acres, so there is plenty of room between neighbors, and the traffic out there is almost non-existent compared to Montgomery County. Granted, there is a lot more traffic out that way nowadays than when I used to train out there a ton 20 years ago, but it is still a lot better than Montgomery County. After we buy a house, we are going to look at rental property and buying a farm. That way, when I get sick and tired of the pace here, I can head to the farm and do some telecommuting and relaxing at the same time.

As far as the bears are concerned, get yourself a shotgun with some slugs and/or #00 buckshot. That will kill a black bear pretty quickly and deliver enough of a blow to prevent them from actually getting to you. Better yet, get a rifle. Maybe a cheap Ruger Mini 30 ranch rifle in 7.62 x 39mm. In a pinch, the Glock will do, but I hate taking chances with things that can eat me.

FYI - You and I are close in frame size. A 54cm Colnago is the upper end of what I can ride, going down to a 52cm. My C50 is a 53, and my Artes and Cristallo are 50 slopings which have the same virtual frame geometry as a 54cm traditional Colnago frame. When sizing Colnagos, make sure you get the size right. They are measured C-T, not C-C. It took me a couple weeks just to figure out what the right size Colnago was for me.


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## koyaanisqatsi (Aug 5, 2009)

*I'm not sure either*

I'm not sure either. But from the Pinarello forum and the reviews, I've read of a few cases of cracked or broken frames. So I'm reluctant to go there, even though people really like the bikes.

You've given me information of the type I'm looking for. I may not race or TT (I may TT in the future), but I tend to ride at the limits, far more so than most recreational riders. So handling on descents is important. I think you'd get used to the Pinarello...I don't think it's a case of you're not being good enough with handling a bike. A Felt I test rode seemed _very_ twitchy on a straight road, but I was sure I'd get used to it with experience. The Lynskey Custom Level 4 I test rode on the same day was very stiff and twitchy as well, but I was sure I would get used to it. Still I bought the Custom Level 3...it will take some getting used to. A certain amount of time on a good bike, even one that seems a bit hard to manage at first and it seems so natural and fluid. It takes some time, and you don't realize the skill level your riding at anymore, but every once in a while you realize you just easily did something you couldn't do or wouldn't try before. Is the Colnago that type of bike? Sounds like it is for you! 

Congratulations on your long ride and climbing Sat. That's a pretty tough ride. Sounds like they had the road closed for you so you could safely make use of it, shoulder to shoulder. If you don't mind my asking where was event held?



B2 said:


> I'm not sure if Pinarello deserves a reputation for breaking, but the handling is entirely different from Colnago. I just sold a Pinarello Paris Carbon and bought a used C50 (used to own a C40). The difference is like night and day. Maybe I'm just not a good enough bike handler for the Pinarello, but there is no way I could hit the apex and groove the corners like I can on the C50. The C50 is steady and predictable when descending. The Pinarello was quite lively and less easy to control (for me). I would say I descend 5 - 10 mph faster on the C50 where there are tight turns. I just didn't have the confidence that I could hit the line I wanted with the Pinarello and toned it down some as a consequence.
> 
> I just did 80 miles with 9,000' of climbing earlier today and with exception of a couple of really tight hairpins I didn't even have to hardly hit the brakes. I was able to aggressively and predictably dive into the apex with good speed and slide wide again out to the shoulder holding the speed the entire corner. My C40 was like this too. If you want a great descender. Go with the Colnago!


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## Jbartmc (Sep 14, 2007)

My 2 cents, I love my Colnago bikes. I have ridden Trek, Cannondale and test rode other brands before buying the Colnago EP I first owned. The best bikes in my opinion are Colnago. I had a new generation Madone but really didn't like it. I happily sold it and prefer my first generation Madone to the one I sold. It must be the tradiional geometry that suits me. Colnago still offers the traditional geometry while many other companies use sloping geometry only in the chase to look modern and cutting edge.


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## nicensleazy (Aug 3, 2008)

I quite agree......I always sum it up buying saying, I liked my Pinarello but I love my Colnago!


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## B2 (Mar 12, 2002)

I did ride the Paris Carbon for 2.5 years and it's not like I rode that poorly on it. I just felt it wasn't as predictable while descending as the C50.

No event, just a solo ride in Mt Rainier National Park. Did three laps up to a high point called Sunrise. Here are a couple of photos from a previous ride.


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## nicensleazy (Aug 3, 2008)

Great pics, thanks for posting!


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## koyaanisqatsi (Aug 5, 2009)

What is it about the Colnagos that you love? What riding characteristics really make the difference as far as you are concerned? I admit that question can't be answered sometimes...the bike(s) just ride in some intangible way I'm only interested in the traditional geometry frameset myself. I've read that the pros are demanding the sloped top tube geometry. OTOH I was told by a bike shop owner that the manufacturers were returning to the traditional geometry because that is what the customers were demanding...but I've not see that yet.



Jbartmc said:


> My 2 cents, I love my Colnago bikes. I have ridden Trek, Cannondale and test rode other brands before buying the Colnago EP I first owned. The best bikes in my opinion are Colnago. I had a new generation Madone but really didn't like it. I happily sold it and prefer my first generation Madone to the one I sold. It must be the tradiional geometry that suits me. Colnago still offers the traditional geometry while many other companies use sloping geometry only in the chase to look modern and cutting edge.


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## koyaanisqatsi (Aug 5, 2009)

Fair answer....but why do you love your Colnago? Some people have given the specifics of what sets the Colnago apart in their POV. These people typically race or ride challenging criterium courses...they ride at the limits. Not everyone has to race...a bike can just be transportation.


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## koyaanisqatsi (Aug 5, 2009)

*Beautiful pictures.*

Out east, at least in my area, we have nothing to compare to that. It's hilly. Our roads surfaces don't compare to those in the pics either. There are roads in my town and village that I won't even drive on. That's a problem, so I'll have to plan my riding route carefully. There's a state park nearby and their roads are good, the terrain is hilly, and that's good for training. Good roads are about the only reason I miss living in Northern VA.


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## koyaanisqatsi (Aug 5, 2009)

*Northern VA*

The toll road opened either the summer I arrived in VA and lived in Reston, or certainly within a year of my moving there. It was operating at capacity the day it opened. I didn't start taking it for many years after it opened. I took Georgetown Pike into Langley where I worked, sometimes commuted by bike from Reston or Sterling. BTW, I didn't work for the CIA, but rather the FHWA.

People were still hunting in Eastern Loudoun when I moved to Sterling in 1989 and for a few years after that. But there's no open space left. Western Loudouners are fighting development, but they are probably losing that battle.

I hunted when I was young, but don't do so anymore. I could shoot deer, bear, turkey, etc. from my living room window. Hardly seems fair. Sarah Palin can have her fun any way she wants, but I hear more talk from hunters around here about the shots they _didn't_ take because "it didn't seem right". I'm not afraid of the bears...they are really more afraid of humans than we are of them. You just don't want to get between them and their food or cubs. Back in the 1950s and 1960s, bears and even deer were rarely seen around here, and I spent a lot of time in the woods. Hunters rarely got a deer. Now, hunters sometimes get two or three. Sounds cruel, but they hunt for sport and food...they don't hunt just to kill. I'd prefer they didn't hunt bears...if you live in the country as I do, you simply have to learn to deal with wildlife.

BTW, by feral, stray cat just returned this afternoon. He's a tough little guy. He was as glad to see me as I was him...he let me pet him on the head. Now, I've got to trap him humanely and get him in the house for the winter.

Back to which bike, if any to buy. Maybe I'll just flip a coin about which Colnago and get it ordered. Time is wasting.

Additional comments are welcome.


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## koyaanisqatsi (Aug 5, 2009)

Some useful Colnago reviews at:

http://www.frfsports.com/reviews/reviews_colnago.htm


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## rhyslewisdavies (Jan 10, 2009)

i had a c50and loved it to bits, then crashed it in a race and it was a right off so got an extreme power as a replacement, which is comfortable but not stiff at all, which is what i wanted it to be, so i wouldnt advise buying an extreme power, cant comment on the extreme power super but the C50 is certainly the best bike ive ever ridden, stiff enough for races but can be ridden in sportives too


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## boblikesbikes (Sep 28, 2007)

It's not hard to find a great bike these days - the only thing wrong with my Tarmac Pro SL was it didn't say "Look", "Time", or "Colnago" on the downtube. If you just want a bike to serve a purpose, then just get a Tarmac or a Madone and be done with it.

If you want to ride something special where you won't see yourself coming and going, a 'Nago will not disappoint. I thought my C50 was the best bike I have ever ridden - smooth, comfortable, confidence inspiring handling, awesome decending. The geometry is perfect for an all-round race bike. Don't overlook the importance of the Colnago fork - I felt this had as much to do with the handling and ride (esp. the decending) as anything else.

Hard to find bikes in stock - even the local "dealers" don't want to stock them, citing difficulty with the distributor and lack of demand.


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## nightfend (Mar 15, 2009)

You buy a Colnago because you love the brand, the heritage, the Italian craftsmanship, the quality of the build, and a hundred other reasons that are really passion based.

If you look at just the cold-hard facts, then a Cannondale SuperSix or a Specialized Tarmac will probably work just as well. But they certainly won't have the allure of a Colnago.

As far as Pinarellos go, I know several riders who have Pinarellos and they love them. So if this is the bike that you want, then I'd get it.


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## koyaanisqatsi (Aug 5, 2009)

*Eps?*

I think you just caused an epiphany for me. There's the Colnago Extreme Power, but the Colnago EPS is the Extreme Power Super! At last, I understand that. The EPS is said to very very stiff, but still quite comfortable, according to a review at the Web site I provided elsewhere in this thread.




rhyslewisdavies said:


> i had a c50and loved it to bits, then crashed it in a race and it was a right off so got an extreme power as a replacement, which is comfortable but not stiff at all, which is what i wanted it to be, so i wouldnt advise buying an extreme power, cant comment on the extreme power super but the C50 is certainly the best bike ive ever ridden, stiff enough for races but can be ridden in sportives too


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## Gnarly 928 (Nov 19, 2005)

nightfend said:


> You buy a Colnago because you love the brand, the heritage, the Italian craftsmanship, the quality of the build, and a hundred other reasons that are really passion based.
> 
> If you look at just the cold-hard facts, then a Cannondale SuperSix or a Specialized Tarmac will probably work just as well. But they certainly won't have the allure of a Colnago.
> 
> As far as Pinarellos go, I know several riders who have Pinarellos and they love them. So if this is the bike that you want, then I'd get it.


 I'm riding my current Colnago (at least I was at first) because our team got 'em on a deal. That was why I started out last spring on this CX-1..(some will say it is not even a real Colnago, since it ain't made totally in Italy, but that's a can of worms) The only other Colnago (Dream B-stay) I've had, I didn't care for...sold it after not too long because it wasn't anything special except for the fancy paint and all the "Colnago" logos everywhere--too gaudy for my liking for a mediocre ride......

But this CX-1 felt perfect right away, and has, after a summer of racing and training, become one of my all-time favorites for all kinds of riding. I just Saturday did a 12hr Ultra race with plenty of climbing and super-long fast descending on poor forest service roads...The CX-1 was never an issue. In fact, I only really thought about the bike a few times in the 10.5hrs I lasted, and that was to be gratefully amazed that I didn't have any comfort or control issues..bike-caused. I never once noticed that it was a 'non-traditional Colnago' with sloping TT geometry...Just concentrated on eating, drinking and getting up the next 15mile climb..bike was a non-issue until after and then I recall how 'journeyman' it handles everything I put it through.

I don't ride a Colnago for it's name. If I found a Schwinn that worked so well, I would ride that, even. I've had Looks, Time, DeRosa, customs, Treks, C-dales, Orbea,,many bikes, but the Colnago lives up to the hype that it's 'designer-name' is meant to imply.


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## nicensleazy (Aug 3, 2008)

I actually own an EPS, see my pic posted in a previous thread. Yes, the frame is stiff but yet extremely comfortable. You could easily spend long periods in the saddle. Its an extremely urgent frame and you can feel yourself being projected forward with each turn of the crank, bit like a nuclear war-head. Also climbs like a mountain goat. I really love my EPS!!!


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## fabsroman (Jul 14, 2006)

nicensleazy said:


> I actually own an EPS, see my pic posted in a previous thread. Yes, the frame is stiff but yet extremely comfortable. You could easily spend long periods in the saddle. Its an extremely urgent frame and you can feel yourself being projected forward with each turn of the crank, bit like a nuclear war-head. Also climbs like a mountain goat. I really love my EPS!!!


Stiff as an Abrams tank too, right?


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## iyeoh (Jan 6, 2005)

koyaanisqatsi said:


> ....but why do you love your Colnago? Some people have given the specifics of what sets the Colnago apart in their POV. These people typically race or ride challenging criterium courses...they ride at the limits. Not everyone has to race...a bike can just be transportation.


I'm sorry that I'm not going to be much help to you, but I thought I'd share my perspective. I ride Colnagos because I like riding Colnagos and nothing else. However, that's pretty much what I have owned and ridden, and I've been riding for quite some time. 

My second road bike ever was a Colnago, and I was 15 years old (in the mid 70s) and I had my British/Dutch Raleigh 531 stolen. Since then, I've had one DeRosa Primato SLX and one Merckx MXL Max, both of which I admired, but its been nothing but Colnago steel. Unfortunately, I rode like a moron (and was a moron) when I was young. I owned an actual Super SL in Saronni colors, and it ended up under the wheels of a taxi.

Right now, I don't own a carbon bike, but I did briefly owned two Colnago carbons, both of which were not positive. The first was a Carbitubo (ridden by Rominger) and I found it disappointing because it was like a wet noodle, and it had a reputation of cracking at the dual small downtubes. I traded it in. The second was an early C-40, still with a steel fork. It rode great, but I found it no better than the equivalent steel Master frame, which I thought rode better. I also traded it in.

I like stiff bikes and I'm not into the ultimate "comfort" thing. Give me a very stiff great handling bike anyday. I actually like a certain amount of road buzz and I regard it as "feel" IMO carbon fiber gets rid of the qualities I like in a steel bike. Specifically, I admire the steel Colnago fork a lot, especially the handling and braking downhill. Its something that I don't find in the other bikes I ride, and I have borrowed quite a few to ride.

I own bikes from the steel Master series: Master, Master Olympic/Light and a Master X Light. I'm in the process of buying another MXL in Saronni with updated components. 

I did ride a EPS recently. I gather I need to get used to it. No doubt its a beautiful bike and by all measures a superlative bike. However, for me, riding on steel is like coming home after a long business trip.

And I haven't raced in almost two decades. I used to be quite active in college, and I even managed to get to Cat 3, but all that fitness went away as soon as I started working long hours, and I have also gained a lot of weight in my middle age. I don't ride at my limits and I don't have time to go riding for 120 miles. Most of the time, my rides are leisurely. Colnago steel absolutely shines even when ridden at a very slow pace. On club rides, sometimes I ride with the C and D groups at 12 to 16 mph. I still greatly enjoy my bikes. They are swift and responsive, and they never beat me up. 

My worst cycling skill is hill climbing. And yet, I wouldn't want to be on any bike other than a steel Colnago because I get to take off like a banshee when I stomp. I once rode somebody's 14 pound carbon bike (won't name the brand). That bike wouldn't hold a candle against a 21 pound Colnago steel bike up a short and steep hill. 

Sorry to ramble on. Sorry if I'm not helping.


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## koyaanisqatsi (Aug 5, 2009)

*Thanks. Good information.*

That the Colnago CX-1 is an all-time favorite after a season says a lot. I believe that the CX-1 itself comes only with the dreaded sloped top tube, so I wouldn't touch one. But your comments on the CX-1 reflect on Colnagos in general IMO.

I've ridden Schwinns. A Paramount that was a quite good rode bike and Schwinn Circuit. Both were from the late 1980s. It seems that every time I decided to "upgrade" my ride in the past, I really only marginally upgraded. I never went for a high end bike. This time, it will be different since this will be my last bike purchsed. I do like the idea of a Italian brand with much tradition behind it. No one around in my geographic area would have a clue about that, but I'd know and that's what counts. I might end up with a steel frame based bike from Cinellii, Colnago, Torelli, Eddy Merckx, or whoever. Ot it may be a carbon bike. I think I'll not go with aluminum. The Colnago Extreme Power and EPS both seem very nice. A full on racing bike, and if I can get my fitness level up a bit (actually, a lot), I may do some local racing. The Sironi Colnago Extreme Power 2008 Frameset is a beautiful frame, if a little expensive.

I'm not looking for a gaudy looking bike either. This very interesting tidbit regarding the Pinarello Prince from Competitive Cyclist is illustrative:* "The 2008 Prince Carbon is identical in every last detail to the 2009 edition. The paint schemes are different, but other than that detail, they are equals in every last way. Every way, that is, except price. By choosing a 2008 paint scheme you save $1,500."*



Gnarly 928 said:


> I'm riding my current Colnago (at least I was at first) because our team got 'em on a deal. That was why I started out last spring on this CX-1..(some will say it is not even a real Colnago, since it ain't made totally in Italy, but that's a can of worms) The only other Colnago (Dream B-stay) I've had, I didn't care for...sold it after not too long because it wasn't anything special except for the fancy paint and all the "Colnago" logos everywhere--too gaudy for my liking for a mediocre ride......
> 
> But this CX-1 felt perfect right away, and has, after a summer of racing and training, become one of my all-time favorites for all kinds of riding. I just Saturday did a 12hr Ultra race with plenty of climbing and super-long fast descending on poor forest service roads...The CX-1 was never an issue. In fact, I only really thought about the bike a few times in the 10.5hrs I lasted, and that was to be gratefully amazed that I didn't have any comfort or control issues..bike-caused. I never once noticed that it was a 'non-traditional Colnago' with sloping TT geometry...Just concentrated on eating, drinking and getting up the next 15mile climb..bike was a non-issue until after and then I recall how 'journeyman' it handles everything I put it through.
> 
> I don't ride a Colnago for it's name. If I found a Schwinn that worked so well, I would ride that, even. I've had Looks, Time, DeRosa, customs, Treks, C-dales, Orbea,,many bikes, but the Colnago lives up to the hype that it's 'designer-name' is meant to imply.


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## koyaanisqatsi (Aug 5, 2009)

*Well, iyeoh*

You've been quite helpful. I think carbon frames may be over-rated. Pros ride them, but they are looking for every possible advantage, real of imagined. And the bike manufacturers who sponsor teams will give the teams anything they want. Of course, those of us who follow pro cycling simply must have the same type of frames. Having said that, I have a late 1980s Specialized Allez carbon fiber frame bike...I think the lugs are aluminum. It is _very_ comfortable and yet quite stiff.

There is an article here on roadbikereview.com someplace on steel frames and their benefits. And many people, correctly I think, believe that a properly made steel frame bike is by far the best frame for the dollar-for-dollar. Steel frame bikes can be quite comfortable with the right tubing and geometry. And I am considering the 2010 Colnago Master X-Light frame as a possibility. I would configure it with high-end light-weight components of course.

I'm not Eddy Merckx (I'd happily own an Eddy Merckx frame), but I was and may be again a very strong recreational rider. And I may do some TTs and criteriums next summer if I can lose some weight and get into shape a bit.

What bike do I want? No sure yet. In my area their a very few bike shops offering very few options. It's not possible to test ride a Colnago. I have no doubt that Colnago, in at least one of their frames, offers what I want and would be very happy with. Maybe it's time to take that leap. I've not heard any real complaints about Colnagos. The frame at 

http://www.racycles.com/road/road-frames/colnago/colnago-extreme-power-2008-frameset.aspx#

Looks the way I think a bike should look. Simple, clean design in a very nice color. I believe it has the traditional frame geometry as well.


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## rodist (Sep 2, 2005)

*Love my C-50*

Reading your question made me go back to my old post when I received my C-50 4 years ago. I was excited to say the least. After the first weekend of riding my new nag, I posted this.

Thanks for all the kind words. I'll have pics soon, brought the film in this morning to get developed to a disk. Funny, I'll drop $ 6000 on a bike and don't own a digital camera.... you know where my priorities lie. Put 210 miles on the bike this weekend. Took a 90-mile ride yesterday. Though my average speed has stayed the same on my 90-mile loop (19.2), my average heart rate dropped about 8 BPM for entire ride.
R&A set this bike up flawlessly. They really did a great job and beat Wrench Science, CBike and Competitive Cyclist in price. The also had the frame in stock and did not have to bring it in from the distributor. The ride is insane. I think people who rip high-end bikes either can afford them or do not want anyone else riding a great bike. During my ride I hooked up with a couple of guys on a Madone 5.9 and a Serrotta Legend (2 bikes I was seriously considering) All I kept saying to myself was "THANK GOD I BOUGHT THE C-50!" Nothing wrong with those 2 bikes, there is just something about a Colnago that is deeply satisfying. I can't explain how fulfilled I am. Every detail, shapes of the tubes, the angles, the chain and seat stays, the star fork, the paint job and final finish is perfect, the ride. I thought you guys in this forum were all nuts about how much you liked your Colnago’s. I get it now.


Here is the link to the full post. I want to thank you all again for the passion you have in the Colnago brand. It made me make the best purchasing decision of my life. I still lust for nothing else though I would love to ride EPS.
http://forums.roadbikereview.com/showthread.php?t=40127&highlight=rodist


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## koyaanisqatsi (Aug 5, 2009)

Thanks for the input. I've still made no decision, but will sometime this week. I'm still considering an Eddy Merckx Premium Classic frameset thru Full Cycle, but I haven't heard anything from them since contacting them this past weekend. Other than that, it's between the Colnago C50, Extreme Power or EPS if I can find a color scheme, traditional frame, and frame size that suits me. R&A Cycles would probably be the dealer for a Colnago, even though I would have to pay NYS's outrageously high sales tax. So your input about R&A is helpful as well. But there are no Colnago dealer's nearby, and I've checked. Many people I know drive into PA for many purchases just to avoid the NYS sales tax. So just 20 miles away, businesses do quite well, but on this side of the state line it's the pits. I may have already mentioned that I won't do business with Competitive Cyclist because they do not prominently display their physical address and phone number on their Web site. It's there, but very hard to find. And yes, you can Google up their address. But that's not good enough.

It's decision time. If I bought all the above bikes I would then have to decide which bike to ride so, aside from costs, that's impractical ;-) !


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## nightfend (Mar 15, 2009)

R&A Cycles has a fairly bad reputation. I'm not sure I'd buy from there.


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## koyaanisqatsi (Aug 5, 2009)

*Based on what?*

If not R&A Cycles, who would you recommend? 



nightfend said:


> R&A Cycles has a fairly bad reputation. I'm not sure I'd buy from there.


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## Jbartmc (Sep 14, 2007)

I have two Colnago's from Pista Palace, great retailer in all respects.


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## Jbartmc (Sep 14, 2007)

I have two Colnago's from Pista Palace, great retailer in all respects.


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## koyaanisqatsi (Aug 5, 2009)

*Pista Palace*

My impression. They need to get a decent Web site up quickly. They can rag on R&A all they want, but they need a better Internet presence. I had to do a Yellow Page search to find them. They look like a bunch of obese people who get no exercise, much less do any real bike riding...in short, they look too much like me. Do they sell in store only or are they also an Internet retailer? Do they have a fitting program to help you get the right size frame. I can't drive to PP.

I _really_ like their Saronni EPS, but what dufus put a white saddle, white handle bar tape, and white spokes on a bike that clearly calls for a more Darth Vader look? Their price matches R&A's, at least for the frameset, but they can't beat Full Cycle's price for the Colnago EPS (Traditional Geometry) Frameset of $6,499.99. Other than the Saronni, I could do w/o the boy-racer graphics the other EPSs, except the AMOR version....the entire bike should be that gold color in metallic, if it is gold.

I have little to lose in emailing them I guess. Why don't they have a toll-free number?

I'm in the process of getting info on the Eddy Merckx Premium Classic frameset. 



Jbartmc said:


> I have two Colnago's from Pista Palace, great retailer in all respects.


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## nightfend (Mar 15, 2009)

I'm not sure I'd pay full retail for a Colnago frame. So I guess I wouldn't recommend any local bike shops. I'd order from overseas.


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## koyaanisqatsi (Aug 5, 2009)

*No local bike shops*

No local (to me) bike shops sell Colnago. Many of the Internet distributors are having sales right now, since the 2010 models are coming out and it's getting towards the end of the riding season for much of the country. I'm talking to Full Cycle and Wrench Science. I still have a debate going with myself over exactly which bike to buy. I'm not sure who will win the debate,



nightfend said:


> I'm not sure I'd pay full retail for a Colnago frame. So I guess I wouldn't recommend any local bike shops. I'd order from overseas.


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## rodist (Sep 2, 2005)

Buy an EPS with kick ass wheels with a top of the line Campy, Shimano or Sram group and be done with it and then thank me once a month for forcing you to pull the trigger and not having an ounce of regret or buyer's remorse or the number of other negative feelings non Colnago buyers experience soon after their purchase.

Your are welcome!

I know campy people, no other group choice for an Italian frame but to each his own.


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## koyaanisqatsi (Aug 5, 2009)

*My Colnago EPS Build V1.0*

rodist: Don't be afraid to speak your mind on this subject ;-) ! But I've already worked up an EPS build, which needs some tweaking wrt to size, and add-ons:

Bike Parts: Model: Weight:
Frame Colnago Extreme Power Super - EPS AMOR 54.00 54.00 STD 2.20lbs
Fork Colnago C75 Extreme | OEM Spec'd | Carbon S 43.00 340g
Brake Set Campagnolo Record-D 11 Skeleton | Black 282g
Brake Shift Campagnolo Record 11 QS Ergopower 338g
Cable Campagnolo Stainless | 120g
Housing Campagnolo Campagnolo | Black 160g
Crank Campagnolo Record 11 Carbon 175.00 39-53 699g
Bottom Bracket Campagnolo Record 11 | Aluminum | Silver 52g
Front FrontDerailleur Campagnolo Record 11 QS 75g
Cassette Campagnolo Record 11 | Steel/Titanium | 12-25 201g
Rear RearDerailleur Campagnolo Record 11 | Carbon | S 179g
Chain Campagnolo Record 11 242g
Wheelset Fulcrum Racing 5 Aluminum Rim Black 1755g
Skewer Set Fulcrum OEM Spec'd | Black | 110
RimTape Set Velox Cloth Rim Tape 8g
Tire Set Michelin Pro Race 3 | Dark Grey | Kevlar | STD | 23.00 440g
Tube Set Butyl Presta 20.00-28.00 | 48.00mm 200g
Pedal Look Keo Sprint | Red 260g
Headset Colnago C-HS1 | Black 100g
Stem 3T ARX Pro | Black | 110.00 | 6.00 152g
Handlebar 3T Ergosum Pro | ERGO | Black | Aluminum 285g
Handlebar Tape Deda Elementi Soft Touch | Black 15g
Seatpost Colnago EPS Carbon 350mm 380g
Saddle Fizik Aliante Gamma | Black 259g

Bike Weight: 17.35lbs

Sorry about the formatting. The AMOR color is unusual, to say the least, if my computer monitors colors are close to accurate and I think they are. I'm not looking for ostentatious as much as the desire to be noticed by the ubiquitous inattentive driver. Unfortunately, ostentatiousness seems to be the order of the day for bikes. Of course you can get a far less expensive steel frame brake at about the same weight. The carbon frames must have something going for them since all the pros I've in the major races seem to be riding them. Would you own this bike as speced?????




rodist said:


> Buy an EPS with kick ass wheels with a top of the line Campy, Shimano or Sram group and be done with it and then thank me once a month for forcing you to pull the trigger and not having an ounce of regret or buyer's remorse or the number of other negative feelings non Colnago buyers experience soon after their purchase.
> 
> Your are welcome!
> 
> I know campy people, no other group choice for an Italian frame but to each his own.


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## fabsroman (Jul 14, 2006)

That is pretty much how my C50 is built, except that I went with Record 10, Cinelli Ram bar and Neo CK stem, Prologo C One 30 saddle, and I'm going to build up a set of tubular training wheels for it. With Zipp 202's on the bike with Zipp skewers and Tufo S3<195, the weight is 14.3 pounds. Don't ask me how it rides because I only have 2 miles on it so far.


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## koyaanisqatsi (Aug 5, 2009)

*Sounds like I'm on the right track*

The Record 10 may be available still. I understand (or was told that Record 10 was a 2008 model). For tires, I'll stick with clinchers. I'll have to discuss saddle comfort, sizing issues with them since the Colnago frame size is measured CT, whereas all my previous bikes were CC. I'll certainly so what I can to reduce weight (my own and the bikes's) if I can do so w/o compromising strength and adding to cost by much. And I'm still looking at the Eddy Merckx Premium Classic...review at http://www.roadcyclinguk.com/news/article/mps/uan/2499

Just some Ts to dot and eyes to cross and I'll make the decision and order the bike from someone TBD.


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## Gnarly 928 (Nov 19, 2005)

*Too heavy..*

You should be able to get a 'daily rider' carbon frame to weigh around 14.5-15lbs without making it finicky and without spending silly money for all titanium stuff. Wheels and tires are one thing I see on a cursorial look...Saddle, maybe.

Of course, a couple of pounds on the bike is not going to make a lot of difference on the "Whole Package", but if you're building your dream bike, and you aren't doing it on a cut-rate budget, why not make it sort of light?


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## icsloppl (Aug 25, 2009)

> Bike Parts: Model: Weight:
> 
> Cassette Campagnolo Record 11 | Steel/Titanium | 12-25 201g
> 
> ...


IMO - 

The Fulcrum 5's are not in line with the rest of the build. You can get a set of 1's on ebay for less than $800 new. Also, you don't need rim tape with Fulcrums. The rims are sealed, even the non-2way models.

If that puts you over your price threshold, consider doing what i did: A chorus 11 group with SR rear cluster. The cluster is much of the wieght difference between groups and the only significant rotational weight difference.

The Aliante gamma version is mediocre at best, and a terrible value. Get the carbon base version off ebay. It's the carbon base flex that makes it special.

/ IMO


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## koyaanisqatsi (Aug 5, 2009)

*Gnarly: reasonable response.*

The most obvious place is the wheels/tires. I definitely want to go with clinchers. But if I can reduce the wheel/rim weight, that can make a difference. My B.S. degree is in Math/Physics, and I understand that the weight of rotating components is doubly important. Other stuff just has to be accelerated linearly (straight line) only. But rotating components are accelerated linearly and rotationally; the further these components are from the axis of rotation makes an even bigger difference. A saddle makes little difference. I'll have to talk to the dealer I select about these things...they're in a better position to evaluate the options than I am.

There's still the Eddy Merckx frameset I've talked about, but I'm leaning away from that. I'm still put off by the 2 year Colnago warranty, same as the Pinarello warranty length.

Considering that I want to lose 70 lbs or more if I'm feeling OK down there, 2 lbs makes little difference.



Gnarly 928 said:


> You should be able to get a 'daily rider' carbon frame to weigh around 14.5-15lbs without making it finicky and without spending silly money for all titanium stuff. Wheels and tires are one thing I see on a cursorial look...Saddle, maybe.
> 
> Of course, a couple of pounds on the bike is not going to make a lot of difference on the "Whole Package", but if you're building your dream bike, and you aren't doing it on a cut-rate budget, why not make it sort of light?


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## koyaanisqatsi (Aug 5, 2009)

*Thanks icsloppl*

I can talk to the distributor, easily edit my current build to check $ difference. Unless the saddle is made of lead, I doubt it will make much difference weightwise, but comfort is always a consideration. Nothing is engraved in stone. On most things, other than component group, I went with the default selection unless I knew better...I rarely knew better.




icsloppl said:


> IMO -
> 
> The Fulcrum 5's are not in line with the rest of the build. You can get a set of 1's on ebay for less than $800 new. Also, you don't need rim tape with Fulcrums. The rims are sealed, even the non-2way models.
> 
> ...


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## fabsroman (Jul 14, 2006)

koyaanisqatsi said:


> I can talk to the distributor, easily edit my current build to check $ difference. Unless the saddle is made of lead, I doubt it will make much difference weightwise, but comfort is always a consideration. Nothing is engraved in stone. On most things, other than component group, I went with the default selection unless I knew better...I rarely knew better.


Nothing is engraved in stone period. That is the beauty of the hobby, which has been enhanced via ebay. Buy the Fulcrum 5's right now, and if you don't like them in a year sell them on ebay and buy something else. I've had tons of wheels on and off my bikes. I think the most important things about a bike are frame, wheels, and saddle. Both in weight and comfort for the frame and wheels, and only in comfort regarding the saddle.


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## wildboar (Nov 27, 2008)

Sticking those wheels and aluminum handlebars on that frame would be a crime.

If I was looking at losing 70 pounds, I would get a Master X-light, put Super Record on it, Zipp 404 (clydesdale build), Cinelli Ram, and still be ahead $2,000.


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## koyaanisqatsi (Aug 5, 2009)

*wildboar: Perhaps you're right...*

but if I take your suggested route, I'd be upgrading next spring or summer when I'm 50 lbs lighter. I'm already working on the weight loss. It's going to take some time and lots of hiking, walking, etc. I swore I'd never allow my self to get into anywhere near this terrible physical condition. But after several health issues, including two stents, this is where I am. Now I've got to dig myself out. The riding season in WNY will nearly be over by the time I get this bike, esp. if we have a fall/winter like last year. If I get a few miles on the bike this fall I'll be happy. This bike and another new bike will be mounted in my living room so I see them every single day over the winter, an incentive to keep working on the weight issue.

Finally, I already have a couple old clydesdales. I don't need another.

Thanks.



wildboar said:


> Sticking those wheels and aluminum handlebars on that frame would be a crime.
> 
> If I was looking at losing 70 pounds, I would get a Master X-light, put Super Record on it, Zipp 404 (clydesdale build), Cinelli Ram, and still be ahead $2,000.


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## koyaanisqatsi (Aug 5, 2009)

I could have easily spec-ed a new car with the time I've spent on this. Much has changed since I last bought a bike. And _everybody_ has an opinion, but I don't mind that. There weren't as many options way back when AFAIK. I'm playing catch-up with the new technology. But the old technology, at least as far as framesets go, works just fine.
Tomorrow, time permitting, I'll go through one distributor's frame fitting process.

You know, I don't really like the new paint schemes: geometric shapes, fades. They add a lot to the cost (the whole point of course), but offer no value. 



fabsroman said:


> Nothing is engraved in stone period. That is the beauty of the hobby, which has been enhanced via ebay. Buy the Fulcrum 5's right now, and if you don't like them in a year sell them on ebay and buy something else. I've had tons of wheels on and off my bikes. I think the most important things about a bike are frame, wheels, and saddle. Both in weight and comfort for the frame and wheels, and only in comfort regarding the saddle.


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## vtbiker (Feb 20, 2006)

Love the bike, love the build. I bought a C50 over last winter, and couldn't be happier. I came off an R3, which although lighter, does not ride nearly as well. The Colnago handles much better while going down hill, climbs just as well, and rides so much smoother. I also have Fulcrums, the Racing 1 two way fit. Do yourself a favor and go tubeless. I weigh in at 195, and ride at 95psi and have not had a single flat. I live in Vermont, and believe me, we have some rought roads. The ride quality (I ran the wheels at first with Pro Race 3's) is unreal. Good luck.


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## icsloppl (Aug 25, 2009)

> I could have easily spec-ed a new car with the time I've spent on this. Much has changed since I last bought a bike. And _everybody_ has an opinion, but I don't mind that. There weren't as many options way back when AFAIK. I'm playing catch-up with the new technology. But the old technology, at least as far as framesets go, works just fine.
> Tomorrow, time permitting, I'll go through one distributor's frame fitting process.
> 
> You know, I don't really like the new paint schemes: geometric shapes, fades. They add a lot to the cost (the whole point of course), but offer no value.


IMO and as others have said, much of the appeal of Colnago's is the history and reputation of the brand, as well as the opportunity to create your own small piece of it with your bike. Selecting the component layout, paint scheme, and overall look should be a part of the fun of ownership. If you buy into that, and it appeals to you, take your time and make sure you're happy with the result.

If you find the whole thing a waste of time and money (which from an objective point of view it mostly is), perhaps consider a Trek Madone. A 6 series with Ultegra SL is $4900 retail. You can customize it as much or little as you wish, and it will be custom built and fully warranteed by Trek. Paying that much for a Colnago frame with your intended use as a daily trianer makes little sense, at least to me. 

As a Madone SSL and C-50 owner, it's a tough call from a ride quality point of view.


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## koyaanisqatsi (Aug 5, 2009)

*vtbiker, thanks for the input*

I've considered tubeless and may yet go with them. But don't expect me to like them. I don't really like "clipless" pedal which, in reality have a clip in a greater sense of the word clip than the old "toe-clip/strap" type pedals. This build is just a first cut and I have to go through the fitting procedure, as well as measure all the bikes I currently have. Components may change as the build is refined.

Some roads are quite rough in my area and I'll avoid rough roads as much as possible. It's the little bits of debris lying, from farm vehicles, etc. around that worry me. I learned to use a gloved hand or foot edge to scrape any stones off my tires. In all my years of cycling, I can recall only one flat tire. It happened within 1/4 mile of my home, but it ruined my day anyway.



vtbiker said:


> Love the bike, love the build. I bought a C50 over last winter, and couldn't be happier. I came off an R3, which although lighter, does not ride nearly as well. The Colnago handles much better while going down hill, climbs just as well, and rides so much smoother. I also have Fulcrums, the Racing 1 two way fit. Do yourself a favor and go tubeless. I weigh in at 195, and ride at 95psi and have not had a single flat. I live in Vermont, and believe me, we have some rought roads. The ride quality (I ran the wheels at first with Pro Race 3's) is unreal. Good luck.


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## koyaanisqatsi (Aug 5, 2009)

*icsloppi: Reputation and fun?*

There are probably at least a dozen Italian bike manufacturers whose reputation equals Colnagos. They are still there, but not very prominent. I even remember a few names from 20 years ago. The fun of component layout. Most people wouldn't know what was installed on their frameset if they weren't told, and of course every one has their own opinion on what should be on their frameset. They are trying to be helpful and I appreciate that, but I'll probably work out the component details with my dealers and it will be mostly Campy Record. Other details will have to be torked. Today's paint schemes are mostly just hideous...well, they are also expensive. I'd like the Saronni (Serino, Sironi, etc.). The 2010 EPS paint schemes are...ahem...mostly undesirable. The 2009 paint schemes are merely OK, except the Zabel (Wrench Science) which is quite attractive or the AMOR which is unusual.

Buying a bike for the fun of ownership would indeed be "a waste of time and money". I really want to get to riding these bikes. I noticed a lot of bike groupies, male and female, with expensive bikes on the bike trails of Northern VA. Lots of people standing around admiring their bikes and other's bikes, but not doing much riding as far as I could tell. A quick ride out to Partlow Bros. some fluids, and then back to Sterling. But I preferred to ride as far and fast as I could w/o flogging myself, and a ride to/from Partlow Bros. wasn't even 20% of my total ride. The fun is in the riding of the bike!!!! Otherwise, hang your bikes on your walls as art.

Who said the Colnago was a daily trainer?!?!?!? I hope to ride it fairly often, but I have several other bikes to choose from. BTW, just to tick people off, I'm buying the Colago EPS *and* the Eddy Merckx Premium Classic, both with Campy Record. They'll look real nice next to my Lynskey Custom Level 3 (R330) titanium. All three bikes will see some road time. Most people couldn't afford these 3 bikes. Most single people have other priorities and married individuals would have to add in one large additional cost...alimony.

I really, really liked the "overall looks" of my late 1970s, steel frameset, $190 Takara and if I wanted a bike to look at, I'd seek out a used Takara. I'm sensing a case of "bicycle envy" from you. It that the case? You only have a Madone SSL and a C-50? If you're happy with those, I see no problem. If you're not happy with those, then you should upgrade. But I don't make major purchasing decisions based on what makes sense to you. One can't know with certainty whether the bike(s) they are purchasing are good for them until they spend some time on them. But other people's opinions, which I've sought, can provide some limited guidance. You should probably reread the entire thread to get a sense of why I'm doing what I'm doing.



icsloppl said:


> IMO and as others have said, much of the appeal of Colnago's is the history and reputation of the brand, as well as the opportunity to create your own small piece of it with your bike. Selecting the component layout, paint scheme, and overall look should be a part of the fun of ownership. If you buy into that, and it appeals to you, take your time and make sure you're happy with the result.
> 
> If you find the whole thing a waste of time and money (which from an objective point of view it mostly is), perhaps consider a Trek Madone. A 6 series with Ultegra SL is $4900 retail. You can customize it as much or little as you wish, and it will be custom built and fully warranteed by Trek. Paying that much for a Colnago frame with your intended use as a daily trianer makes little sense, at least to me.
> 
> As a Madone SSL and C-50 owner, it's a tough call from a ride quality point of view.


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## iyeoh (Jan 6, 2005)

Errr... try to choose the Super Record 11 speed over the Record group. If you want the best technology and engineering. And it seems that you could eaily pay for it, so why won't you?


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## fabsroman (Jul 14, 2006)

iyeoh said:


> Errr... try to choose the Super Record 11 speed over the Record group. If you want the best technology and engineering. And it seems that you could eaily pay for it, so why won't you?


Agreed. The only reason I went with Record 10 on my build is because that is what I have on my other bikes and I didn't want to have to worry about which cassette I had on which wheelset by going the Super Record 11 route. As soon as there is a more significant technological advance than a little weight savings and an extra cog, I'll be switching over 2 to 3 bikes at a time.


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## iyeoh (Jan 6, 2005)

I can't change your view on tubular tires, but I ride those exclusively. I have an inherent prejudice against clinchers, but that's just me. Ever tried riding home on a flat clincher? I've done 15 miles on a leaking flat tubular.

One tubular tire that is indestructible and very comfortable is the Vittoria Evo Pave CG. It comes in 24 mm size and 27 mm size. Since you are not doing Paris Roubaix, I don't recommend the 27 mm size because there may be tire clearance issues. Yes, they are expensive. But I don't wanna hear that from you. Money is not the ultimate consideration for you, obviously.

Otherwise, Continental makes a fabulous puncture resistent tire called the Sprinter Gatorskin in 22 mm size. Its an ultra high pressure capable tire (170 psi) and it is very fast. Its not that expensive as well (at least compared to the Competition)

Vittoria Pro All Weather tubular has my vote for the all-round bad weather fast rolling tire. This tire is bad a$$ when it comes to general cycling racing/touring. I also like the old school Corsa CG.

There are the beautiful Continental Competition, Veloflex Record/Carbon and the Evo Corsa CX, but those are for showing off or race day only because they are sure expensive and get ripped up ridding on anything but the best pavement.


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## koyaanisqatsi (Aug 5, 2009)

*iyeoh*

The build is a work in progress. Simply a first cut. SIzing/fitting is the next priority. Then I'll fine tune the build.

I have a bias against tubulars and have always rode clinchers. I just may ride the Paris-Roubaix *some year*.

I'm not sweating tire/saddle details right now, because I have a lot of work to do on my house, and I expect to put much of a day into providing the fitting information for the two bikes. When the time comes for actual purchase, I'll make the changes I think I need to make. Right now, I don't have the time for the build refinements.


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## koyaanisqatsi (Aug 5, 2009)

*iyeoh: Diminishing returns*

Since I'm getting *two bikes*, and because I would prefer them to be as similarly built as possible so [my Lynskey will also be built with the Record Group], though the Super Record 11 doesn't cost *that* much more than the Record 11, times 2 it becomes quite a bit more. I'll add that my not-so-local pro bike shop owner said go with the Record when I asked about the difference between the two. I think this guy knows what he is talking about since he uses and prefers the Record rather than the Super Record himself. I could spend the money and end up with a $15,000 EPS w/o breaking a sweat, but I don't think I'm going to. For example, just upgrading to a pair of Campy Something (Bora Ultra?} rims would add $3,000. When I get my Colnago and Merckx builds done, I may go with the Super Record, but I see little to gain by doing so. I may have the $, but I see no reason to make compromises when I lose little by doing so.. The question is always where (which component upgrades) to you get the biggest bang for your buck...yeah, I know I'm already past that point. I'll be getting these bikes just about the time the snow flies here in Western NYS.

I appreciate the advice and will keep it in mind.

I have an assignment for you! Go ahead to the Internet distributor of your choice [Wrench Science, for example] and design your own EPS dream build. They won't mind, but they'll probably contact you. 



iyeoh said:


> Errr... try to choose the Super Record 11 speed over the Record group. If you want the best technology and engineering. And it seems that you could eaily pay for it, so why won't you?


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## iyeoh (Jan 6, 2005)

koyaanisqatsi said:


> I have an assignment for you! Go ahead to the Internet distributor of your choice [Wrench Science, for example] and design your own EPS dream build. They won't mind, but they'll probably contact you.


lol Have been for the past two years. R&A's roughly local to me, in a manner of speaking. I have two steel frames that I've bought that have not been assembled, and debating the more expensive switch to EPS. Around these neck of the woods, the word is SR11, and my ex-club in NYC (I'm inactive) has its fair share of expertise and medals, but my intent was to help, not pi$$ anyone off .


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## nicensleazy (Aug 3, 2008)

Good luck with it...keep us posted!


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## koyaanisqatsi (Aug 5, 2009)

*I'm not pi$$ed off!*

Sorry if I gave that impression. One other responder did "annoy" me, but not badly...philosophical differences in what a bike is and what its purpose is. The idea behind the assignment was/is to give you a real world idea of how quickly the costs start adding up. I still think it would be a good exercise for you, at R&A or elsewhere.

And I've not added in things like a bottle cages, bike computers, shorts, jerseys, shoes, possibly rollers for indoor winter fitness training, etc. Like buying a home computer, there are the "hidden" costs that need to be factored in.



iyeoh said:


> lol Have been for the past two years. R&A's roughly local to me, in a manner of speaking. I have two steel frames that I've bought that have not been assembled, and debating the more expensive switch to EPS. Around these neck of the woods, the word is SR11, and my ex-club in NYC (I'm inactive) has its fair share of expertise and medals, but my intent was to help, not pi$$ anyone off .


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## iyeoh (Jan 6, 2005)

koyaanisqatsi said:


> The idea behind the assignment was/is to give you a real world idea of how quickly the costs start adding up. I still think it would be a good exercise for you, at R&A or elsewhere.
> 
> And I've not added in things like a bottle cages, bike computers, shorts, jerseys, shoes, possibly rollers for indoor winter fitness training, etc. Like buying a home computer, there are the "hidden" costs that need to be factored in.



I only know too well. I buy bikes in pairs because I have a Mrs. who's as avid a cyclist as I am, and actually more accomplished in racing credentials. Anyway, about 30 big ones for two EPS w/ SR11, carbon bars, fancy saddles and Lightweights and a set of spare Campagnolo Shamal wheels each.


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## fabsroman (Jul 14, 2006)

iyeoh said:


> I only know too well. I buy bikes in pairs because I have a Mrs. who's as avid a cyclist as I am, and actually more accomplished in racing credentials. Anyway, about 30 big ones for two EPS w/ SR11, carbon bars, fancy saddles and Lightweights and a set of spare Campagnolo Shamal wheels each.


Man, I am scared to look at Quicken and tally up my cycling purchases over the past 3 years. I'm hoping that it comes to $30,000 for all 5 bikes and the wheels.


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## iyeoh (Jan 6, 2005)

fabsroman said:


> Man, I am scared to look at Quicken and tally up my cycling purchases over the past 3 years. I'm hoping that it comes to $30,000 for all 5 bikes and the wheels.



If you truly tally up everything, add in the accessories like apparel, spare parts, tools, racks, and add other nonsense like the air compressor from Home Depot...... now add the opportunity cost in lost productivity


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## fabsroman (Jul 14, 2006)

iyeoh said:


> If you truly tally up everything, add in the accessories like apparel, spare parts, tools, racks, and add other nonsense like the air compressor from Home Depot...... now add the opportunity cost in lost productivity


Yep, but you have to subtract out the mental and physical well being from cycling, and we know that is "priceless".

By the way, my compressor came from Sears and I hardly use it for the bikes. What do you use a compressor for with bikes? Also, most of the tools I have can also be used on cars, home remodeling, etc., so they weren't really bike specific with some exceptions (e.g., work stands, truing stand, chain tool).


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## koyaanisqatsi (Aug 5, 2009)

*I agree with fabsroman*

Priceless. Productivity is a relative term anyway. And since I'm "medically retired", it's not a huge issue. How can I bike? My cardiologist says I have no limits on physical activity. I'm dying to get on my bikes, but I'm tied up with home repairs at the moment and haven't had the time to take the fitting measurements that are required.

As for price, you could pay $22,000 for a bike as one person who reviews his Serrota Meivici on roadbikereview.com did, and still be dissatisfied. Ouch.

As for a compressor, I have one sans tank to inflate my car tires. But I bad always read to never, never use a gas station compressor, even if pressure regulated to fill bike tires. It's true that those compressors were notoriously inaccurate, but a well regulated and accurate compressor would be just the ticket. A hand pump works just fine if that's what you have.

I'm looking to buy a bike from dealer whose shop manager wrote (to me): "Frame size (traditionally the seat tube length) is completely unimportant when sizing for a bike, regardless if it's measured C-C or C-T." The "completely unimportant" is a concern to me and I'm not sure this fellow knows what he is doing. Certainly, the frame "reach" measurement, which is also variously defined [for example, see Neuvation], is important. But that can't be the only important measurement in fitting a bike to someone. There still seems to be little standardization on take frame measurements (CC or CT?) and how best to fit a frame. Comments on this are welcome.



fabsroman said:


> Yep, but you have to subtract out the mental and physical well being from cycling, and we know that is "priceless".
> 
> By the way, my compressor came from Sears and I hardly use it for the bikes. What do you use a compressor for with bikes? Also, most of the tools I have can also be used on cars, home remodeling, etc., so they weren't really bike specific with some exceptions (e.g., work stands, truing stand, chain tool).


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## iyeoh (Jan 6, 2005)

fabsroman said:


> What do you use a compressor for with bikes?


OK the compressors are for cars as well, as I have a few. But I use it for bikes as well. I ride latex tube tubulars that go flat in about 2 to 3 days. Plus, I like my pressures real high.. like 140 psi to 150 psi for regular riding, 160 psi on Conti Competition for crits, and Vittoria Pista CS for the asphalt velodrome. Floor pumps get pretty annoying after pumping the sixth tire.. wife and son ride with me.. and we're all on tubulars exclusively.

You know what's the silliest expenditure I made? Campagnolo tools. I guess when I was in my 20s, I bought stuff out of emotion rather than using my brains lol There's still this old school headset press for threaded headset cups that I used once.


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## fabsroman (Jul 14, 2006)

That is alright. One day you will be able to sell those Campy tools as antiques to somebody that wants them for nostalgic value, and you will get a ton for them. Me, I'll just be able to sell my Park tools to somebody that wants awesome tools that work, not that the Campy stuff doesn't work. I just think their tools are ridiculously over priced, and I usually like the over priced stuff.


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## koyaanisqatsi (Aug 5, 2009)

*I'm wondered about tools myself.*

My current bikes are a bit old and older tools (all Park) worked well on those bikes. When I rebuilt a bike, I did *everything*. Yes, the bottom bracket, headset, wheels, and pedals. I remember cleaning the bearing races of the pedals, putting a small bead of grease around the bearing races, then using tweezers to place the 50 or so bearings one by one back into the race. At least I think it was roughly 50 tiny ball bearings. I've wondered what newer tools I might need for the newer bikes. Comments welcome.

I think I'll also need to good indoor trainer for this winter. Performance has a bunch, but I'm not sure which one(s) would suit me and my bikes. I don't need or want a computer interface since they all seem to interface to a PC and I only use Apple.

Decisions, decisions.



iyeoh said:


> OK the compressors are for cars as well, as I have a few. But I use it for bikes as well. I ride latex tube tubulars that go flat in about 2 to 3 days. Plus, I like my pressures real high.. like 140 psi to 150 psi for regular riding, 160 psi on Conti Competition for crits, and Vittoria Pista CS for the asphalt velodrome. Floor pumps get pretty annoying after pumping the sixth tire.. wife and son ride with me.. and we're all on tubulars exclusively.
> 
> You know what's the silliest expenditure I made? Campagnolo tools. I guess when I was in my 20s, I bought stuff out of emotion rather than using my brains lol There's still this old school headset press for threaded headset cups that I used once.


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## rodist (Sep 2, 2005)

*I train on Rollers*

I love my kreitler rollers. The Alloy 3.0 (used to be known as Dyno Lyte) with a killer head wind attachment makes working out inside fun and challenging. I ride my C-50 on it and just change my wheels to an old set of Kysrium Elites. I also have a fork stand for sprints but no longer use it because after 10 years of rollers, I can stand, sprint and go no hands without a problem. I don't race. I'm 50 ride about 6000 miles a year and average about 19 - 20 mph on 80 mile rides. For me, they are perfect.

http://www.kreitler.com/


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## velociped jones (Mar 21, 2005)

koyaanisqatsi said:


> . I suppose I was lucky to stumble on my late 1970s Takara in a hole in the wall, dark and dingy bike ship, in a broken down area of Buffalo NY.


 hey! the allentown neighborhood of bflo (where i frequently buzz thru on my colnago active) is aged to perfection. every city doesn't have tons of diplomat money to spend on gentrification. and jamestown ain't so bad either. the concord grapes are in, so take a little ride out into the country and get yourself some bounty.


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## koyaanisqatsi (Aug 5, 2009)

*velociped jones: I knew Bflo well*

I lived in Buffalo (did I mention that someplace)? from late 1971 to 1984 when I moved to VA. Then I moved back to my home town down on the southern tier in late 2004...a mistake as I just no longer "fit in" here. I got my B.S. degree from U.B. and held various jobs as needed there. I also lived in Buffalo for a few months prior to the Amry in late 1968 to early 1969, working at the William Hengerer Co. on downtown Main St. in Buffalo. At that time, Buffalo was still booming. By the time I came back from the Army, Buffalo was starting to die. I don't know if they are doing the right things now to reinvigorate their economy. Buffalo gets a bad rap from those who've never lived there. Sure, it snows. But you adjust and it's not that bad. And for a small city, it's actually fairly pleasant there. I lived is various parts for west and north Buffalo and frequented the Elmwood Strip on weekends, places like Goodbar, No Name, Masthead on occasion, and others whose names I've forgotten. They may all be gone now. Sounds like I lived in bars, but that really wasn't the case...bars were just a pleasant diversion. I ran in Delaware Park around the golf course all year round...I loved to run in the snow. I bought my Takara bike (maybe my all-time favorite bike) from Schickluna's (spelling?) when they were on Niagara St. in the very late 1970s--they've since moved to Hertel I think. I biked quite a bit back then, out of necessity at times, for recreation at times. I used to cross over the Peace Bridge and ride to the Falls on the Canadian side occasionally. Border crossing was easy back then. I'd bike around Buffalo on the pleasant summer nights. I'd bike to the UB Amherst campus when they moved the Physics Dept. from the Main St. campus. [It's *always* seemed foolish that they didn't build the new campus and/or The Ralph in the downtown area as there was plenty of unused land and buildings waiting to be torn down. Corruption!] I briefly lived in Allentown on a one-way, northbound street one block west of Main St. That street started at Allen St. I think. My years in school weren't real easy since my only income was the GI Bill benefits, but I look back at those years fondly. I had quite a few goo friends. It's odd how I look back at certain difficult or challenging periods of my life and say "those were the days"...they didn't seem that way at the time. Life on the Southern tier is not pleasant, but I'm still a "stranger in a strange land", even after 5 years back here. It still doesn't feel like home. Thus my return to cycling, even with the relatively short season here. I'll have my Lynskey from Toms Pro Bike soon, I hope. No excuses then. I'll be getting a Colnago and an Eddy Merckx after that. Work on my house and yard has been keeping me too busy. And now a severe cold, but I'm on the mend.

Any recommendations for rides?



velociped jones said:


> hey! the allentown neighborhood of bflo (where i frequently buzz thru on my colnago active) is aged to perfection. every city doesn't have tons of diplomat money to spend on gentrification. and jamestown ain't so bad either. the concord grapes are in, so take a little ride out into the country and get yourself some bounty.


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## koyaanisqatsi (Aug 5, 2009)

*kreitler rollers*

rodist: Thanks for the input.

I'd actually only looked at "trainers" at Performance this past week or so. But as soon as I saw the name kreitler in your comment, I remembered kreitler rollers from way back when I was very actively biking. They had a very good reputation even way back then. I never purchased any type of trainer or rollers, because I then lived in VA and could get enough winter riding in. Here in Western NY, that will not be possible. I'd need fork stands for sure, since I've lost the fine riding skills needed to do w/o I think. Your comment suggests that rollers are bit tough on rims/tires, so I might need an additional rim set. I don't have an old set kicking around. I do have some older bikes kicking around so, since this is mainly for fitness, I don't think it matters too much which bike I use.

Given that Performance is a dealer for many trainers, but very few rollers, I'm wondering if rollers have fallen into disfavor for some reason. I suppose it depends on what your main purpose is. The rollers would be very good ( or good to some degree?) for maintaining riding skills when used w/o the fork stands. Trainers would mainly only address fitness and warmup. Does this seem correct to you. TIA



rodist said:


> I love my kreitler rollers. The Alloy 3.0 (used to be known as Dyno Lyte) with a killer head wind attachment makes working out inside fun and challenging. I ride my C-50 on it and just change my wheels to an old set of Kysrium Elites. I also have a fork stand for sprints but no longer use it because after 10 years of rollers, I can stand, sprint and go no hands without a problem. I don't race. I'm 50 ride about 6000 miles a year and average about 19 - 20 mph on 80 mile rides. For me, they are perfect.
> 
> http://www.kreitler.com/


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## velociped jones (Mar 21, 2005)

koyaanisqatsi said:


> I lived in Buffalo (did I mention that someplace)? from late 1971 to 1984 when I moved to VA. Then I moved back to my home town down on the southern tier in late 2004...a mistake as I just no longer "fit in" here. I got my B.S. degree from U.B. and held various jobs as needed there. I also lived in Buffalo for a few months prior to the Amry in late 1968 to early 1969, working at the William Hengerer Co. on downtown Main St. in Buffalo. At that time, Buffalo was still booming. By the time I came back from the Army, Buffalo was starting to die. I don't know if they are doing the right things now to reinvigorate their economy. Buffalo gets a bad rap from those who've never lived there. Sure, it snows. But you adjust and it's not that bad. And for a small city, it's actually fairly pleasant there. I lived is various parts for west and north Buffalo and frequented the Elmwood Strip on weekends, places like Goodbar, No Name, Masthead on occasion, and others whose names I've forgotten. They may all be gone now. Sounds like I lived in bars, but that really wasn't the case...bars were just a pleasant diversion. I ran in Delaware Park around the golf course all year round...I loved to run in the snow. I bought my Takara bike (maybe my all-time favorite bike) from Schickluna's (spelling?) when they were on Niagara St. in the very late 1970s--they've since moved to Hertel I think. I biked quite a bit back then, out of necessity at times, for recreation at times. I used to cross over the Peace Bridge and ride to the Falls on the Canadian side occasionally. Border crossing was easy back then. I'd bike around Buffalo on the pleasant summer nights. I'd bike to the UB Amherst campus when they moved the Physics Dept. from the Main St. campus. [It's *always* seemed foolish that they didn't build the new campus and/or The Ralph in the downtown area as there was plenty of unused land and buildings waiting to be torn down. Corruption!] I briefly lived in Allentown on a one-way, northbound street one block west of Main St. That street started at Allen St. I think. My years in school weren't real easy since my only income was the GI Bill benefits, but I look back at those years fondly. I had quite a few goo friends. It's odd how I look back at certain difficult or challenging periods of my life and say "those were the days"...they didn't seem that way at the time. Life on the Southern tier is not pleasant, but I'm still a "stranger in a strange land", even after 5 years back here. It still doesn't feel like home. Thus my return to cycling, even with the relatively short season here. I'll have my Lynskey from Toms Pro Bike soon, I hope. No excuses then. I'll be getting a Colnago and an Eddy Merckx after that. Work on my house and yard has been keeping me too busy. And now a severe cold, but I'm on the mend.
> 
> Any recommendations for rides?


 mr. life out of balance,
i ride similar routes to what you probably rode. the ride over the peace bridge and up the niagara parkway is my big training loop. delaware park and allentown are my regular training loop. mr. bush made crossing over the bridge harder for awhile but i have a nexus card, so it's possible to enter canada without talking to any customs people at all. what 'appened in bflo is fairly typical to what's occured in all the great lake cities on the u.s. side the past 40 years or so. the foundations of the economy now are health care, education and border trade. things are great if you have a job (cheap, architecturally sound housing, short commutes, very low incidence of lyme disease, lotsa educational options for the kiddies, low crime) but can be tough if you lose your job. but it's like that everywhere now.
i'm not that familiar with what's going on in jamestown, but if looking for people to ride with the hollyloft people seem to be pretty active. you might also consider taking up cross country skiing to keep ya from getting cabin fever in the winter.


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## koyaanisqatsi (Aug 5, 2009)

*velociped jones: Bflo*

I guess Buffalo probably hasn't changed too much since I last lived there in 1984. Actually, I lived out in Angola along Lake Erie from 1983 to 1984, but I don't count that. The reason I left Buffalo was to get a job I actually wanted. Good jobs were scarce even back in the early 1980s. I worked for Ecology & Environment when they were near the airport. Not a bad company to work for, but I wasn't getting the type of work I was interested in. I'm glad I moved to VA as it gave me a far different life experience. Of course, now the Southern Tier seems, and is very isolating, as I've already noted in this thread. Jamestown is barely hanging on. In the 1960s, it was a busy industrial town like Buffalo. Many of the small towns along the Southern Tier barely exist anymore. I'd be much happier in or near a medium size city down south I think.

Today is not a good bike riding day. Cool and threatening a lake effect rain. Typical autumn day, I guess.

I still haven't gone through the fitting process for my Colnago. I need to jump on that. But most all of the bike shop people have been at Interbike this past week anyway, so nothing could have been done on my order anyway. It seems that many people, even bike shop mangers view Colnagos and their expensive paint schemes as "works of art". I view them as technological marvels built for purposeful riding. As one shop manager wrote me "Something you have to understand about Colnago is that the bike is a work of art. There is certainly something to be said for elegance through simplicity. However, to skimp on the paint and finish quality of a Colnago would be like Michaelangelo painting stick figures on the ceiling of the Sistine Chapel." IMO, the "paint and finish quality" has nothing to do with the bizarre/expensive paint schemes on Colnagos and some other bikes. Yes, the complex paint schemes costs a lot of money over a simple Saronni Colnago. From Competitive Cyclist "The 2008 Prince Carbon is identical in every last detail to the 2009 edition. The paint schemes are different, but other than that detail, they are equals in every last way. Every way, that is, except price. By choosing a 2008 paint scheme you save $1,500." At least Competitive Cyclist is honest about the increased cost. I'm OK with paying more money for increased performance from a bike, but I'm not at all happy paying more for a complex (and often unattractive) paint scheme. For pros, it doesn't matter since they probably get their bikes and tech support for free. But for non-pros, these things do matter, at least to me. If I want a work of art, I'll buy one. I'll step down off the soap box now. I suppose that there is no point in railing against something I can do nothing about. Do others ponder this issue or do they simply accept, or even agree with the work of art pitch? 

I wonder how many people get the koyaanisqatsi reference. not that it matters.



velociped jones said:


> mr. life out of balance,
> i ride similar routes to what you probably rode. the ride over the peace bridge and up the niagara parkway is my big training loop. delaware park and allentown are my regular training loop. mr. bush made crossing over the bridge harder for awhile but i have a nexus card, so it's possible to enter canada without talking to any customs people at all. what 'appened in bflo is fairly typical to what's occured in all the great lake cities on the u.s. side the past 40 years or so. the foundations of the economy now are health care, education and border trade. things are great if you have a job (cheap, architecturally sound housing, short commutes, very low incidence of lyme disease, lotsa educational options for the kiddies, low crime) but can be tough if you lose your job. but it's like that everywhere now.
> i'm not that familiar with what's going on in jamestown, but if looking for people to ride with the hollyloft people seem to be pretty active. you might also consider taking up cross country skiing to keep ya from getting cabin fever in the winter.


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## velociped jones (Mar 21, 2005)

koyaanisqatsi said:


> It seems that many people, even bike shop mangers view Colnagos and their expensive paint schemes as "works of art". I view them as technological marvels built for purposeful riding. As one shop manager wrote me "Something you have to understand about Colnago is that the bike is a work of art. There is certainly something to be said for elegance through simplicity. However, to skimp on the paint and finish quality of a Colnago would be like Michaelangelo painting stick figures on the ceiling of the Sistine Chapel." IMO, the "paint and finish quality" has nothing to do with the bizarre/expensive paint schemes on Colnagos and some other bikes. Yes, the complex paint schemes costs a lot of money over a simple Saronni Colnago. From Competitive Cyclist "The 2008 Prince Carbon is identical in every last detail to the 2009 edition. The paint schemes are different, but other than that detail, they are equals in every last way. Every way, that is, except price. By choosing a 2008 paint scheme you save $1,500." At least Competitive Cyclist is honest about the increased cost. I'm OK with paying more money for increased performance from a bike, but I'm not at all happy paying more for a complex (and often unattractive) paint scheme.
> 
> I wonder how many people get the koyaanisqatsi reference. not that it matters.


 a colnago remains a colnago. it doesn't have to be brand new. i forget how old my active is but i still get compliments at starting lines. the paint scheme is part of the whole process and the bike costs what it costs. ernesto still puts his name on the bike. and that still stands for something. but he also knows we live in the real world, which is why they have the cx-1. maestro uk has an arte complete for about $2100. that's plenty of bike for the non-racer and even the masters racer. if somebody wants more, then ya gotta pay for it. that eps is alotta bicicletta. but then, it still costs less than a pt cruiser and you'll feel better about it for a lot longer.


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## fabsroman (Jul 14, 2006)

velociped jones said:


> a colnago remains a colnago. it doesn't have to be brand new. i forget how old my active is but i still get compliments at starting lines. the paint scheme is part of the whole process and the bike costs what it costs. ernesto still puts his name on the bike. and that still stands for something. but he also knows we live in the real world, which is why they have the cx-1. maestro uk has an arte complete for about $2100. that's plenty of bike for the non-racer and even the masters racer. if somebody wants more, then ya gotta pay for it. that eps is alotta bicicletta. but then, it still costs less than a pt cruiser and you'll feel better about it for a lot longer.


I think an Arte is plenty of bike for almost any level of racing, if decked out with the right components. Granted, the frame is close to 1,400 grams, so the EPS or the CX-1 are a better choice for the races where the road goes up and down, but I would also hate to wreck one of those frames (e.g., $$$$$$ and sentimental value). Then again, I'm also not a big guy, so maybe the Arte frame does flex for some of the bigger, more powerful, racers. All I know is that I have used it for Cat 4 crits and Masters crits, and it has been just fine.


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## koyaanisqatsi (Aug 5, 2009)

*EPS: lots of bike and lots of $*

Probably more than I need. Definitely more than I *need*. But life is short and I want one. I can do w/o the "art" paint schemes. The art is actually in the overall performance of the bike, which no doubt exceeds my overall performance level. I suppose I'm lucky the EPS is not available only in a Andy Wwarhol's "Campbell's Soup I" paint scheme. In that case, I'd try to find a pedalable vesion of the Oscar-Meier Weiner-Mobile. But as I may have wrote before, it does no good to rail about something I have no control over,

The EPS Zabel will do very nicely. I'll settle for the AMOR paint scheme if I have to.

Still have a cold or possibly the flu...so I haven't had the energy to take my measurements yet.


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## rodist (Sep 2, 2005)

koyaanisqatsi said:


> rodist: Thanks for the input.
> 
> Your comment suggests that rollers are bit tough on rims/tires, so I might need an additional rim set
> 
> ...


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## koyaanisqatsi (Aug 5, 2009)

*rodist: Thanks again*

Very useful information. Rollers seem to be the way to go.

RIght now, biking is last on my mind. After fighting off a cold for 5 days, I think I'm now coming down with the flu. I thought I was recovering, but feel much worse today than over the weekend. This too, shall pass.



rodist said:


> koyaanisqatsi said:
> 
> 
> > rodist: Thanks for the input.
> ...


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## icsloppl (Aug 25, 2009)

> I wonder how many people get the koyaanisqatsi reference. not that it matters.


Yes, probably the most influential media object in my life time. That's kind of why i thought you would be a cool guy. Unfortunately your response to my attempted assistance seemed to say otherwise.

Again, if you want mechanical excellence without undue regard to "artistry", get a Madone or similar. The mystique of Colnago really is based on the assumption that the end result transcends technology and enters the realm of artistry. If you discuss them with "a Colnago person" and question that belief, you shouldn't be surprised if they aren't in alignment.


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## koyaanisqatsi (Aug 5, 2009)

Darn, I lost the most important part of my post. I won't repeat it other than to say I'm just fine with not being "cool" and that I know I probably come across as mean-spirited, ill-tempered and close-minded. Certainly the first two are correct. I have a long list of things I must live with in daily life, but I don't have to like them. I'm puzzled as to why your annoyed at my failure to adopt your point of view regarding Colnago "art"; your opinion on the issue doesn't bother me, and we certainly disagree. I guess I'm saying that you just have to live with my attitude, because there is no right or wrong on this issue. And my attitude is that, in a road bike: road performance counts, the artwork does not. I've tried to make that clear starting with my OP.

1) Neither you nor others who wrote eloquently about the Colnago's performance on the road wouldn't give the Colnago bikes a second look, except in disgust, if the bikes themselves did not perform at a very high level.

2) I've checked, but not carefully, and I believe all 10 or 12 special-order 2010 Saronni bikes have been gobbled up. And I think that happened very quickly. I'll be going for the 2009 Zabel color if I can get it. Maybe I missed it, but I've heard no one rave about the newer paint schemes. They may like the schemes and/or merely accept. I don't know.


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## apex (Sep 2, 2009)

When it comes to indoor training I would highly recommend the Kurt Kinetic Rock and Roll. I was loyal to my rollers for many years but I found that with time I was wanting more resistance for sprinting (the ability to safely stand up or take my hands of the bars) and the security of having my bike remaining up right during periods of distraction. The Kurt Kinetic to me feels as close as possible to riding out doors. I still use my rollers to work on my technique but the fluid trainer has really help improve my wattage. The Kurt also has a very cheap and accurate power computer which will add a whole new dimension to your training.

Apex


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## koyaanisqatsi (Aug 5, 2009)

*Thanks apex*

I'll keep the Kurt Kinetic Rock and Roll in mind. Of course, one can get a fork stand with rollers and I'd probably need them, at least for some time. Maybe not...I've never used rollers, or a trainer for that matter. Either may meet my needs very well.



apex said:


> When it comes to indoor training I would highly recommend the Kurt Kinetic Rock and Roll. I was loyal to my rollers for many years but I found that with time I was wanting more resistance for sprinting (the ability to safely stand up or take my hands of the bars) and the security of having my bike remaining up right during periods of distraction. The Kurt Kinetic to me feels as close as possible to riding out doors. I still use my rollers to work on my technique but the fluid trainer has really help improve my wattage. The Kurt also has a very cheap and accurate power computer which will add a whole new dimension to your training.
> 
> Apex


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## koyaanisqatsi (Aug 5, 2009)

*My previous reply did not show up!*

My previous reply did not show up, so I'll re-reply. I disagree that the movie "Koyaanisqatsi" is "probably the most influential media object in my life time", but only because so few people know about that movie or the Qatsi Trilogy". In fact, I fact I tried in vain to locate a copy of "Koyaanisqatsi" for purchase in 2001/2002. I couldn't. I talked to my now deceased aunt, an actress who lived in NYC during that period. She actually had to go directly to the Screen Actors Guild (SAG) in NYC to get a VHS copy, which a friend re-copied and she then sent that to me. The entire Qatsi Trilogy is available on DVD, or perhaps even Blu-Ray, now. 

Anyway, you seem to be saying that you thought I was cool because of my "koyaanisqatsi" ID, but have since come to your senses because I disagree about the "artsy" paint schemes of the Colnagos. I am cool with not being considered cool by you or anybody else. Sorry. I probably come across as: 1) ill-tempered, 2) mean spirited, and 3) closed-minded. The first two are probably accurate. I'm cool with that as well. The "art" of the Colnago is in it's overall road performance (which I have yet to experience)...that's my opinion. I don't care for the artsy paint schemes. In my mind, there's no right or wrong here, just opinion and personal taste. So keep your cool. I'll go for the 2009 Zabel color, or hold my nose and accept the 2009 AMOR paint scheme. I believe that the 10 or 12 specially ordered 2010 Saronni EPS bikes are already gone; I expected that. ]It will take longer to sell 10 or 12 of the artsy paint scheme bikes.] And I don't know of anyone who has been raving about the newer Colnago paint schemes.

You can either accept that we disagree on this issue or not. But I consider the matter closed. There is actually a long list of things that I encounter daily but don't like at all. That list is available upon request.

And thanks for suggesting that I'm not cool...never liked that label anyway. I prefer "hot".

k.



icsloppl said:


> Yes, probably the most influential media object in my life time. That's kind of why i thought you would be a cool guy. Unfortunately your response to my attempted assistance seemed to say otherwise.
> 
> Again, if you want mechanical excellence without undue regard to "artistry", get a Madone or similar. The mystique of Colnago really is based on the assumption that the end result transcends technology and enters the realm of artistry. If you discuss them with "a Colnago person" and question that belief, you shouldn't be surprised if they aren't in alignment.


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## Sablotny (Aug 15, 2002)

*This thread is useless without pics...*



fabsroman said:


> Ultimately, you need to get a frame/bike that "moves" you. You need to get one that you love. One that will inspire you to ride it.


Like, totally. I love my Dream. I see it and I want to ride.


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## fabsroman (Jul 14, 2006)

*Hope these help to make this thread better. LOL*

Since we need pictures to make this thread better, here you go.


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## koyaanisqatsi (Aug 5, 2009)

*Thanks for the pics*

Some look familiar to me, as if they were from some Web site I've recently visited. Maybe not. Lot's of Colnago photos out there. I don't know if they help the thread (honestly no opinion), but adding them to the thread certainly does no harm. 



fabsroman said:


> Since we need pictures to make this thread better, here you go.


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## Manifestor (Jan 21, 2009)

Hey koyaanisqatsi!

I've been scanning through the posts here on your purchase decision. Did you buy a frame yet? It appeared to me that you bought a C-50. Is this correct?

I have some ideas for you (as a Colnago Master X-light and Meivici owner), so let me know where you are in this decision and I'll post appropriately.

As for Colnago, they do offer a lively ride. Smooth, yet efficient in power transfer. Those are tough characteristics to get to rate highly together. They typically contradict each other in most bikes. I wound up buying a Meivici, and I like it more than the Extreme Power or C-50. The tubing is stiff for power transfer efficiency, but also the junction of the rear dropout and seat stays are joined with bearings, so that this junction can pivot and flex freely, according to the chain stay and seat stay flex that is designed into these tubes. This allows Serotta to give you a very laterally stiff frame and fork while building in a shock absorbing system. It is genius! And it works beautifully, as designed. As for the gent that bought the $22K Meivici and doesn't like it, what what he EXPECTING that didn't pan out. It is still a bicycle and won't pedal itself up the hill.

Anyway, before buying a new frame, GET A PROFESSIONAL FIT BEFORE BUYING ANYTHING!!! Buying a bike that has a head tube that is too short will kill your ability to fit on the bike. Go to a city that has a good fitter that professionals use, and you will save LOTS of money!!! Once you have your geometry, then you can qualify what bikes will work or not, as opposed to your back going into spasm after 20 miles. Then you can maybe sell your frame for 50-70% off and try again.

A good looking bike will make you smile when you buy it. A good riding bicycle will make you smile after you buy it and make you look forward to the next ride. If you find a bike that looks good and rides good, you will be very happy!!!

As for the Marcelo, my opinion is that it is the best all round steel frame you can get. It will do it all and the thin tubing mutes all the road buzz. I ordered a custom one, I like it so much!

Below are my current bikes, the latest addition was the Colnago Master X-Light, as I have lusted on having the best lugged frame that I can own, and this one does not disappoint. Once you know your TT and HT requirements for your professional fit (!!!!), check Tom's inventory at www.gvhbikes.com as he is the person I acquired the Colnago and Duende from and has inventory in this paint scheme, one 55 PR-7, a 63 Molteni, and a 58 LX-4 (a favorite of mine!) 

Cheers and look forward to chatting with you!

Manifestor


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## koyaanisqatsi (Aug 5, 2009)

*Selected bike is...*

the Colnago EPS. No "artwork" on the bike. Color will be Zabel, AMOR if I have to. I've not ordered it or purchased it yet. It took some time to decide on bike and I've just been very busy with house and yard. A couple other issues have intervened. I expect to take measurements, at least get a start on it, late today or tomorrow and get the measurements to the Internet distributor. We may have to retake the measurements here and there. I'm confident that I can get properly bike fitted to me. This is no doubt a bike whose overall capabilities I'll never be able to match as a rider, but that's the point. This is the last bike I'll ever need, barring a disastrous crash.


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## Manifestor (Jan 21, 2009)

Koyaanisqatsi,

That's cool. I don't think you can regret the purchase of a Colnago EPS.

As for measurements, try to get a measurement of the degree of flex you have in your leg (lie on the ground on your back and measure the angle of how far your leg will rotate at the hip from the ground. You want a static measurement, so it helps to have someone lift your leg until it hits the resistance from your hamstring muscle. This will determine what cm drop you will be able to tolerate without your back going into spasms after 20-25 miles (the wall for an improperly fit bike.) I don't have a computation for the translation for your flexibility to bar drop, but a proper fitter will be able to tell you.

Just something to consider.

Cheers,

Manifestor


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## koyaanisqatsi (Aug 5, 2009)

*Thanks for the help; EPS on order*

Thanks for all the input to this thread. I've ordered a 2010 Colnago EPS tonight. There are a few minor details to work out, but it's a done deal. Unfortunately, I delayed so long that the the 2009 Zabel color is gone and IS NOT available for 2010.. So I've ordered a 2010 MTBK (Matt Black) frame as below. Could anything be more plain looking. If the Amish in my area rode bikes, they would ride bikes with frames in this color. But, I'm told that it's a hot seller, limited edition...this actually surprises me, that it's a hot seller that is. I've ordered through Wrench Science and during this Thanksgiving week, everything is 10% discounted. So in that respect, my delaying purchase was a +.

Product Type	Description	Quantity	Unit Price	Ext. Price
Frame	Colnago Extreme Power Super - EPS - 2010 MTBK - Limited Edition 54.00 54.00 STD 
Fork	Colnago C75 Extreme | OEM Spec'd | Carbon S 43.0	
Brake	Campagnolo Record-D 11 Skeleton | Black 
BrakeShift	Campagnolo Record 11 QS Ergopower 
Cable	Campagnolo Stainless 
Housing	Campagnolo Campagnolo | Black 
Crank	Campagnolo Record 11 Carbon 172.50 39-53 
BottomBracket	Campagnolo Record 11 | Aluminum | Silver 
FrontDerailleur	Campagnolo Record 11 QS 
Cassette	Campagnolo Record 11 | Steel/Titanium | 12-25 
RearDerailleur	Campagnolo Record 11 | Carbon | S	
Chain	Campagnolo Record 11
Wheelset	Fulcrum Racing 5 Aluminum Rim Black 
Skewer	Fulcrum OEM Spec'd | Black |	
Tire	Michelin Pro Race 3 | Dark Grey | Kevlar | STD | 23.00 
Tube	Butyl Presta 20.00-28.00 | 48.00mm 
Pedal	Look Keo Classic | Black/Black 
Headset	Colnago C-HS1 | Black 
Stem	3T ARX Pro | Black | 90.00 | 6.00 
Handlebar	3T Ergosum Pro | ERGO | Black | Aluminum 
HandlebarTape	Deda Elementi Soft Touch | Black 
Seatpost	Colnago EPS Carbon 350mm 
Saddle	Fizik Aliante Gamma | Black


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## Manifestor (Jan 21, 2009)

Koyaanisqatsi,

Congratulations! You won't be disappointed!

I just tried a Selle San Marco Magma saddle and it is the best saddle I have ever ridden. Definitely see if you can get a hold of one to test!

Cheers,

Manifestor


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## fabsroman (Jul 14, 2006)

That will be an awesome bike. Not to burst your bubble, but Pista Palace still has the EPS available in PR82 last I heard. However, it is exclusive to them.


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## koyaanisqatsi (Aug 5, 2009)

*Thanks, Manifestor*

I'm excited about the purchase. I won't actually receive the bike since that color won't be available until Feb. 2010, middle of winter here. The saddle I'm getting with this bike is the same as the one on the Lynskey bike I just picked up last week. I rode a trainer a while with the Lynskey. Not enough to make a definitive decision on the saddle. It wasn't real comfortable, but my butt has touched any bike saddle in years. I'll tweak the EPS as needed, but I hate to spend more money than I already have. And there are probably a lot of tweaks I could make. But I take your point...a comfortable saddle vs. one not can obviously make a big difference between wanting to ride and not. If I can't adjust to the Fizik saddle....



Manifestor said:


> Koyaanisqatsi,
> 
> Congratulations! You won't be disappointed!
> 
> ...


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## koyaanisqatsi (Aug 5, 2009)

*Where did you get your information?*

Your information may be better than mine, and my information is almost non-existent when it comes to Pista Palace. They list some "Saronni" EPS frames, but say they had a total of 12 made. That list is a couple months old. And Pista Palace states on their Web site "So much did I love the paint scheme that I had 12 made. 12 and only 12 will ever be made. These framesets are exclusively sold through Pista Palace.". I don't think the list of stocked Colnago frames has been changed in a couple months. I'd assumed those frames were long gone and I think I'm right...they are much more attractive than the hideous 2009 and 2010 paint schemes (IMHO). The Web site itself states that one would have to call for availability.They don't put much effort into their Web site so who knows. I'm actually shocked that the EPS and other Colnago frames are not offered in the Seronni and Zabel paint schemes. I must be getting old. Too late now. The deal is done and I'd been working well with Wrench Science for some time on the specs. A 10% discount on _all_ purchases this week helped seal the deal.

I'm puzzled by what seems to be a lack of respect for Eddy Merckx vs. a worship of Giuseppe Saronni. They refer to him only as "Eddy" or "the cannibal". They are right in one respect. Comparing their records, Saronni is nothing like Merckx. AFAIC, Saronni _may_ have been good enough to ride as a domestique for Merckx. That statement will no doubt get me into trouble with a lot of people. 



fabsroman said:


> That will be an awesome bike. Not to burst your bubble, but Pista Palace still has the EPS available in PR82 last I heard. However, it is exclusive to them.


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## wildboar (Nov 27, 2008)

koyaanisqatsi said:


> I'm puzzled by what seems to be a lack of respect for Eddy Merckx vs. a worship of Giuseppe Saronni. They refer to him only as "Eddy" or "the cannibal". They are right in one respect. Comparing their records, Saronni is nothing like Merckx. AFAIC, Saronni _may_ have been good enough to ride as a domestique for Merckx. That statement will no doubt get me into trouble with a lot of people.



That _probably_ has something to do with the fact that he already has his own bicycle company.

Did you really order that thing with the Fulcrum 5's on it? Seriously, those are so out of place that the carbon gods will be crying when it gets assembled. At least do some custom built clinchers or upgrade to something like the Eurus.


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## fabsroman (Jul 14, 2006)

wildboar said:


> That _probably_ has something to do with the fact that he already has his own bicycle company.
> 
> Did you really order that thing with the Fulcrum 5's on it? Seriously, those are so out of place that the carbon gods will be crying when it gets assembled. At least do some custom built clinchers or upgrade to something like the Eurus.


Or just rip the Fulcrum 5 stickers off the wheels and they will be fine.


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## koyaanisqatsi (Aug 5, 2009)

*Yeap, I got the Fulcrum 5s*

You mean Merckx "already has his own bike company"? Colnago did build some frames for Merckx when he raced I've read. Did Colnago expect Merckx to have them build Merckx signature bikes? Is that your point? I just want to make sure I understand what you are saying.

As for the Fulcrum 5s, someone had an issue with those rims on this build as well early in the process. I don't recall the wildboar name, so I don't know if it was you or someone else. It seems that people want to change the bike quite a bit. Everyone has their preferred "something". Here's what I think: I will never be able to fully exploit this bike, as built, to it's fullest performance level...I'll never become that good a cyclist. I've concluded that I traded in my beloved Takara because I had too good a rider for that bike. [I regret trading it in.] And each time I upgraded bikes in the past, they were just incremental upgrades. So I fairly quickly outgrew those new bikes as well. That will not happen with my new Lynskey or the EPS. If it does, all I can do is tweak them, as you suggest. 



wildboar said:


> That _probably_ has something to do with the fact that he already has his own bicycle company.
> 
> Did you really order that thing with the Fulcrum 5's on it? Seriously, those are so out of place that the carbon gods will be crying when it gets assembled. At least do some custom built clinchers or upgrade to something like the Eurus.


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## wildboar (Nov 27, 2008)

koyaanisqatsi said:


> You mean Merckx "already has his own bike company"? Colnago did build some frames for Merckx when he raced I've read. Did Colnago expect Merckx to have them build Merckx signature bikes? Is that your point? I just want to make sure I understand what you are saying.


Yes, Merckx has/had his own company (although he just sold his shares in it) --- he is the competition and he is not Italian. A Belgian, although admittedly the greatest racer ever, still does not have the flair or piquancy of a true, homegrown Italian in the eyes of the Italians. Saronni, being the first superstar Italian to ride on the first team completely outfitted with Colnagos and record major victories on Master tubing will always be that guy.

http://www.roadbikeaction.com/fly.aspx?layout=content&taxid=67&cid=1638



> And with that we sat down to talk about a variety of things: bikes, President Obama, the growing world-wide financial crisis, Lance, Lance’s investment in SRAM, and of course, the one topic that remains close to Mr. Colnago—racing. Who was his favorite racer of all time, I asked. Mr. Colnago looked perplexed, but then answered easily, “The best I ever had was Merckx, but in my heart it is Saroni. And still; guys like Friere and others are special. There is something in their character that makes them champions. I make bikes, but I live and breathe racing!” Bravo!


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## ultimobici (Jul 16, 2005)

koyaanisqatsi said:


> I'm puzzled by what seems to be a lack of respect for Eddy Merckx vs. a worship of Giuseppe Saronni. They refer to him only as "Eddy" or "the cannibal". They are right in one respect. Comparing their records, Saronni is nothing like Merckx. AFAIC, Saronni _may_ have been good enough to ride as a domestique for Merckx. That statement will no doubt get me into trouble with a lot of people.


Merckx pretty much rode De Rosa his whole career. Colnago built the Hour Record bike but none of Merckx's bikes carried the name of the builder.

Saronni however was on a Colnago at the height of his powers. He won the Giro, Lombardia, Worlds and Milan-San Remo on a Colnago. Merckx will always be the greatest ever, but Saronni was an Italian winning Italian Monuments on an Italian bike.


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## koyaanisqatsi (Aug 5, 2009)

*Proud Italians?*

Of course, I knew Merckx has/had his own bike company, that he is Belgian, and almost certainly the greatest racer ever. Bike racers from much different eras are hard to compare, but no one has ever been as dominant as he was. I have nothing against Saronni and maybe I'm reading more into the comparison at Pista Palace than I should. But I sense a lack of respect for Eddy Merckx there. I'm not elegant, graceful, or handsome myself. And I can't ride like either Merckx or Saronni. But if I had a choice, I'd prefer to be able to be as dominant as Merckx. Life doesn't give us such choices, so you go with what you have and nobody did that better than Merckx. I have enormous respect for anyone who rides a grand tour, more so for someone who can win one. I assume you take long rides. So you probably know how much discomfort one has to endure for a very long, hot ride without any support, even if it is non-competitive.



wildboar said:


> Yes, Merckx has/had his own company (although he just sold his shares in it) --- he is the competition and he is not Italian. A Belgian, although admittedly the greatest racer ever, still does not have the flair or piquancy of a true, homegrown Italian in the eyes of the Italians. Saronni, being the first superstar Italian to ride on the first team completely outfitted with Colnagos and record major victories on Master tubing will always be that guy.
> 
> http://www.roadbikeaction.com/fly.aspx?layout=content&taxid=67&cid=1638


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## koyaanisqatsi (Aug 5, 2009)

*Snobbery*

According to Pista Palace, "Sure, Ernesto made many bikes for Eddy, but it seems as though Saronni was like his godson." How PP describes Eddy Merckx vs. Giuseppe Saronni comes across as Italian/Colnago snobbery. My point is simply that Pista Palace doesn't _seem_ to show Eddy Merckx much respect, whereas Saronni is described at PP as follows "A handsome fellow. Nothing like the cannibal. A graceful and respected cyclist whose talents earned him a World Championship and 2 Giro d'Italia victories as well as many others."

Merckx won the Giro d'Italia in 1968, 1970, 1972, 1973 and 1974 (5 times). Saronni won the 2 times.

Merckx had a record seven victories in Milan-San Remo. Saronni had one(?).

The other records Merckx set:
Most career victories by a professional cyclist: 525.
Most victories in one season: 54.
Most stage victories in the Tour de France: 34.
Most stage victories in one Tour de France: 8, in 1970 and 1974 (shared with Charles Pélissier in 1930 and Freddy Maertens in 1976).
Most days with the yellow jersey in the Tour de France: 96.
The only cyclist to have won the yellow, green and red polka-dotted jersey in the same Tour de France (1969).
Most victories in classics: 28.
Most victories in one single classic: 7 (in Milan-San Remo).
Most Grand Tour Victories 11

Pista Palace is largely a Colnago shop, so they seem to pander to Ernesto Colnago. How else could they have gotten the 12 and only 12 PR82 (Saronni) 2010 EPS frames? Actually, the rumor mill has it that they are getting many more such frames while no other shop can get them? OK. Fine. But give Eddy Merckx his due. Nothing you write diminishes the accomplishments of Eddy Merckx, or elevates the accomplishments of Giuseppe Saronni. Snobbery.



ultimobici said:


> Merckx pretty much rode De Rosa his whole career. Colnago built the Hour Record bike but none of Merckx's bikes carried the name of the builder.
> 
> Saronni however was on a Colnago at the height of his powers. He won the Giro, Lombardia, Worlds and Milan-San Remo on a Colnago. Merckx will always be the greatest ever, but Saronni was an Italian winning Italian Monuments on an Italian bike.


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