# Race director abt Lance at Superfrog Tri



## rydbyk (Feb 17, 2010)

“I was ready for some negative stuff and I've gotten it, but it's not even been worth paying attention to,” race director Mitch Hall told Patch. 

He told U-T San Diego. “I think people have made their minds up whether Lance doped or not. 

We just want Lance the philanthropist, Lance of Livestrong – and that matches up with what we want to do.”

There have been many comments on other threads about Lance continuing on as an athlete vs. being banned from EVERYTHING. What Mitch is saying will most likely become a canned response for all race promoters seeking to have Lance attend and compete.Lance won the Superfrog today fwiw...


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## Doctor Falsetti (Sep 24, 2010)

rydbyk said:


> “I was ready for some negative stuff and I've gotten it, but it's not even been worth paying attention to,” race director Mitch Hall told Patch.
> 
> He told U-T San Diego. “I think people have made their minds up whether Lance doped or not.
> 
> ...


You forgot this part of the UT article



> “It’s not how I see the sport,” said Paulo Sousa, a San Diego-based pro triathlon coach originally from Portugal. “I don’t want triathlon to turn into a refuge for dopers, a fringe sport where you end up when you’re banned from other sports. I feel clean sport is a duty for every stakeholder in the sport.
> 
> “These race directors are just like: ‘I don’t care about the bigger picture of the sport. I want Lance here. I want the celebrity and the exposure.’ Superfrog is the oldest Half Ironman in the world. This race is a like a symbol for triathlon, and the symbol is that we want Lance here when the rest of the (sports) world doesn’t want him.”


After USADA releases their evidence, and the UCI makes a mess of it, and the Qui Tam goes forward I doubt that there will be many promoters who will see him as an asset


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## pretender (Sep 18, 2007)

rydbyk said:


> Lance won the Superfrog today fwiw...


Seven Tours de France _and_ the Superfrog?!?!?!?!?!?

He must be doping.


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## Tomahawk (May 4, 2012)

pretender said:


> Seven Tours de France _and_ the Superfrog?!?!?!?!?!?
> 
> He must be doping.


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## gh1 (Jun 7, 2008)

I would be more shocked if he didnt win since he is a doper.


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## pianopiano (Jun 4, 2005)

gh1 said:


> I would be more shocked if he didnt win since he is a doper.


+1 :thumbsup:


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## eekase (Nov 10, 2009)

*USAT no longer req'd to do a tri?*

What perturbs me is that tri race directors are willing to eliminate the requirement that the athletes have a USAT license to race in their tri. Per this article, they see the enrollment up the minute the athletes hear "Lance will be there".

"But when presented with a recent race request from Armstrong, Half Full for this year decided to sacrifice its USAT certification. And it paid off. After announcing last Thursday that Armstrong would participate in the Oct. 7 race, enrollment jumped 20%, said race executive Brian Satola."

Triathlons Part Waters for Lance Armstrong - WSJ.com


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## 88 rex (Mar 18, 2008)

eekase said:


> "But when presented with a recent race request from Armstrong, Half Full for this year decided to sacrifice its USAT certification. And it paid off. After announcing last Thursday that Armstrong would participate in the Oct. 7 race, enrollment jumped 20%, said race executive Brian Satola."
> 
> Triathlons Part Waters for Lance Armstrong - WSJ.com


Sounds like a significant increase. Pretty hard to deny that fact.


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## aclinjury (Sep 12, 2011)

Here's how I see the "Lance effect".

Right now, LA has just been banned. The UCI has not run their full course yet. Many LA diehard fans still rally around him as in their mind this is their attempt to support LA, paint LA as a martyr, and paint the USADA as the evil empire. No doubt many these participants in these tri events are doing it to show solidarity with LA.

But if history is an indicator, this sort of support will almost never last. Soon, people will get back to their daily lives, they will no longer care for LA, and LA will slow fade into obscurity. Just look at ALL the celebrities around us, who have peaked, then did something wrong, and then fade out. The fall from grace will happen.

This LA effect reminds me of the time of the dotcom boom-bust. When these internet stocks initially started to tumble, you have many big names in the financial world, from Merrill, to Goldman.. coming to rally around these stocks. Oh they tried.. and it worked for a period.. but then Nature would run her course... and now most of these stocks and their once famouse cheerleaders are nothing but a memory. LA and his supporters will no doubt in my mind head down this path.


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## Dwayne Barry (Feb 16, 2003)

I'm skeptical. Armstrong has come up with a near fool proof means of keeping himself in the public eye as a do-gooder. If it was calculated, it was brilliant if not, incredibly fortuitous.


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## 88 rex (Mar 18, 2008)

aclinjury said:


> But if history is an indicator, this sort of support will almost never last. Soon, people will get back to their daily lives, they will no longer care for LA, and LA will slow fade into obscurity. Just look at ALL the celebrities around us, who have peaked, then did something wrong, and then fade out. The fall from grace will happen.




I don't know. I think Bill Clinton is still doing OK after his debacle.


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## Local Hero (Jul 8, 2010)

And Mike Tyson has cameos in movies, despite being an ear-biting rapist. 



Armstrong isn't going to race forever. Even if some events change the rules for now, it should not irreparably alter the sport. 

My understanding is that only a portion of triathletes are going for points or trying to gain entry to Kona. They care if an event is USAT. The rest of triathletes are going for PR and a sense of accomplishment. For those who fall into the latter group, what difference does it make if an event is USAT? 

Non-USAT tris will still matter to as practice races or tune-ups for those triathletes who are trying to get points or get to Kona. 

I would be interested in seeing some USAT, slowtwitch, or triathlon magazine surveys: How many triathletes do just one race a year, how far they travel, how many races per year on average, why they race, etc. If the majority of triathletes travel less than two hours and do just one race a year it wont really matter if an event is USAT. 

Of course, the proof is in the puddling: When Armstrong shows up the numbers go up.


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## 88 rex (Mar 18, 2008)

Chris-X said:


> You ask what it matters? To you it doesn't matter, fair enough. To others it's a matter of perception which I won't detail because I just don't feel like it now.
> 
> However, books have been written on the differences which you believe to be irrelevant..What can one say?
> 
> To someone who doesn't watch football, or very little of it, what's the difference between the NFL and USFL? Does it matter?


1) It doesn't matter to most triathletes. A huge majority aren't going for world rankings. It's not a perception, it is wha it is. Very few triathletes, and especially newbie triathletes, look at the schedule to find USAT races. It's nothing like road racing where even amateur racers are looking for USAC races to get upgrade points. In addition, road racers typically race LOTS in a year. This isn't the case with Tri's. They are very expensive and time consuming. 

2) What books are you talking about??

3) The NFL analgoy is really hard to use. I see no similarities. The scale and scope of the NFL for one puts it in a whole different category from triathlons. Most people WATCH the NFL. We are simply viewers being entertained by a bunch of doped up athletes. Most people interested in Tri's will actually be able to do Tri's. It is one of those sports where you can actually get up and personal with the pros, like Lance. You don't get the kind of intermingling in the NFL. So to someone who doesn't WATCH (on TV) football, the only difference between USFL and the NFL would be quality of play. IF you were a player, it would be drastically different. In triathlons, most people are the "players" and not the spectators.


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## saird (Aug 19, 2008)

aclinjury said:


> But if history is an indicator, this sort of support will almost never last. Soon, people will get back to their daily lives, they will no longer care for LA, and LA will slow fade into obscurity.



People said that at the end of 2005.


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## mpre53 (Oct 25, 2011)

When the full story comes out, public support will begin to fade.

Most folks here in the US don't know of any other cyclist. Maybe 1 person out of 10 outside cycling realize that Greg LeMond was also an American and won multiple TdFs. OK, maybe 3 out of 10 at most. To them, Lance is the greatest American cyclist and "the French" have been trying to torpedo him since his first one. Honestly, it's like every European rider is French to a lot of casual sports fans. I moderate on some other websites with sports forums, and this is a very common attitude among them. Americans love fairness and level playing fields above all else, both in sports and in everyday life. To most people, Lance beat "the French" at their own doped up game on a level playing field. If it comes out that he not only bought his way out of dirty tests, but also used his influence to sandbag other riders, that will really alter the public's perception of him.


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## rydbyk (Feb 17, 2010)

mpre53 said:


> When the full story comes out, public support will begin to fade.
> 
> Most folks here in the US don't know of any other cyclist. Maybe 1 person out of 10 outside cycling realize that Greg LeMond was also an American and won multiple TdFs. OK, maybe 3 out of 10 at most. To them, Lance is the greatest American cyclist and "the French" have been trying to torpedo him since his first one. Honestly, it's like every European rider is French to a lot of casual sports fans. I moderate on some other websites with sports forums, and this is a very common attitude among them. Americans love fairness and level playing fields above all else, both in sports and in everyday life. To most people, Lance beat "the French" at their own doped up game on a level playing field. If it comes out that he not only bought his way out of dirty tests, but also used his influence to sandbag other riders, that will really alter the public's perception of him.


Very true. This info will have to be revealed on a 60 Minutes special sorta thing to make it become fairly well known to the general public. A small article here and a small article there will do nothing to inform Americans. Even the cover of SI showing a "Disgraced Lance" wouldn't do it.

The TH 60 Minutes special was watched nationwide and I would suspect got a lot of people to raise their eyebrows at least. ANOTHER 60 Minutes explaining HOW LA went about doing what you alluded to above in red would be very damaging imo..

Like I mentioned before, it is odd, but it really boils down to HOW he went about his cheating vs. the rest of the peleton that were cheating. Funny how that matters, but I guess it is sort of a game changer...


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## Local Hero (Jul 8, 2010)

Many people overestimate the public's desire to hear the full story. What story do people like more, a disgraced hero or a comeback from adversity? 

I tried to illustrate it in my cocktail party mock dialogue earlier. If two people are talking neutrally about Armstrong and a third jumps in full of outspoken energy, dropping sordid details and the names of guilty parties...well that person is going to be seen as a fanatic proselytizer. In our culture, it's often poor taste to appear too passionate or outspoken about a controversial subject. 

People just don't want to hear about needles in arms. 

So I don't buy it when people repeatedly speak of how the other shoe is about to drop and Armstrong will finally hit bottom. He's been banned by USADA. Half the time people say that he was stripped of his victories, half the time we hear that he wasn't. Some people repeat the narrative that it was a vendetta. Some think it's just deserts. The Secret Race is out...How much more will public opinion change after the UCI makes a ruling? 

I don't think it's going to have a major impact. 

On that we can agree to disagree.


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## Doctor Falsetti (Sep 24, 2010)

88 rex said:


> I don't know. I think Bill Clinton is still doing OK after his debacle.


Bill admitted his guilt, apologized to his family and the country. Wrote a book about the pain he caused his family, friends, and staff. 

Do you think we will ever see the same from Lance?


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## SicBith (Jan 21, 2008)

Chris-X said:


> Your Tyson analogy is not on point as it's generally acknowledged that he's an ear biting rapist who is somewhat repentent.
> 
> Armstrong is unrepentent.
> 
> ...


Something tells me that if you asked Tyson if he raped that girl he would come up with something like I never tested positive. Not a denial, but not an admission of guilt.


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## SicBith (Jan 21, 2008)

Doctor Falsetti said:


> Bill admitted his guilt, apologized to his family and the country. Wrote a book about the pain he caused his family, friends, and staff.
> 
> Do you think we will ever see the same from Lance?


He wrote a book about the pain it caused his family and made tens of millions of $ on it to square up with Hilary. No matter how much $ LA stands to lose from people who will claim fraud against them, all of you will still buy his book if he needs the cash. Don't kid yourself all of you will.


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## C6Rider (Nov 15, 2008)

*Don't kid yourself*



SicBith said:


> Don't kid yourself all of you will.


I have never bought any Liestrong merchandise, or any Nike product since the early 90s. Having been looked after by Brooks for many years, I never had the need to pay any attention (or $$$) to the dreaded swoosh.


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## grandprix (Jul 8, 2012)

SicBith said:


> all of you will still buy his book if he needs the cash. Don't kid yourself all of you will.


Given the number of Hamilton comments as of late, you are right.


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## cda 455 (Aug 9, 2010)

C6Rider said:


> I have never bought any_* Liestrong*_ merchandise, or any Nike product since the early 90s. Having been looked after by Brooks for many years, I never had the need to pay any attention (or $$$) to the dreaded swoosh.


_*Hey   !!1! *_









It's Pharmstrong  :lol: !!


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## JoelS (Aug 25, 2008)

C6Rider said:


> I have never bought any Liestrong merchandise, or any Nike product since the early 90s. Having been looked after by Brooks for many years, I never had the need to pay any attention (or $$$) to the dreaded swoosh.


Me either. And we don't buy Trek here either.


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## SicBith (Jan 21, 2008)

C6Rider said:


> I have never bought any Liestrong merchandise, or any Nike product since the early 90s. Having been looked after by Brooks for many years, I never had the need to pay any attention (or $$$) to the dreaded swoosh.


Glad Brooks is giving you the hook. I'm sure you're an awesome runner, but this has nothing to do with Livestrong or Nike.
I was talking about the tell all book which he will write if he needs the money. And we will all buy it.


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## JoelS (Aug 25, 2008)

SicBith said:


> Glad Brooks is giving you the hook. I'm sure you're an awesome runner, but this has nothing to do with Livestrong or Nike.
> I was talking about the tell all book which he will write if he needs the money. And we will all buy it.


No, we won't buy all buy it. I haven't ever bought a Lance book and I don't intend to start.


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## C6Rider (Nov 15, 2008)

*Really, no interest in any tell all book*



SicBith said:


> Glad Brooks is giving you the hook. I'm sure you're an awesome runner, but this has nothing to do with Livestrong or Nike.
> I was talking about the tell all book which he will write if he needs the money. And we will all buy it.


I know that Lance raced dirty, but if and when a tell all book comes out, it is of no interest to me. As I've said before, I've never worn a yellow bracelet, or participated in a Livestrong charity ride. I trust the truth will all come out in time, and all guilty parties are all penalized appropriately.

Whatever happens, I'll continue to run and ride just as always. Whatever happens to Lance et al is of no importance to me.


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## SicBith (Jan 21, 2008)

C6Rider said:


> I know that Lance raced dirty, but if and when a tell all book comes out, it is of no interest to me. As I've said before, I've never worn a yellow bracelet, or participated in a Livestrong charity ride. I trust the truth will all come out in time, and all guilty parties are all penalized appropriately.
> 
> Whatever happens, I'll continue to run and ride just as always. Whatever happens to Lance et al is of no importance to me.


Understood. You do not support LA, Nike, Livestrong, Trek, or anything else associated with LA.
I also understand that if a book was written about doping practices, Training practices, team structure, medical practices concerning pro cycling you would not seek it out and read it. Actually, that part I don't understand.


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## den bakker (Nov 13, 2004)

SicBith said:


> I also understand that if a book was written about doping practices, Training practices, team structure, medical practices concerning pro cycling you would not seek it out and read it. Actually, that part I don't understand.


should we include the part about a book written by or about Lance in the statement above? That way it would actually have some relation to the post you answered.


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## rydbyk (Feb 17, 2010)

C6Rider said:


> I know that Lance raced dirty, but if and when a tell all book comes out, it is of no interest to me. As I've said before, I've never worn a yellow bracelet, or participated in a Livestrong charity ride. I trust the truth will all come out in time, and all guilty parties are all penalized appropriately.
> 
> Whatever happens, I'll continue to run and ride just as always. Whatever happens to Lance et al is of no importance to me.


It is beyond Tyler. It is beyond Lance. The book gives great insight into pro cycling in general. My opinion is that you are really missing out by skipping on this one....

.02


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## SicBith (Jan 21, 2008)

den bakker said:


> should we include the part about a book written by or about Lance in the statement above? That way it would actually have some relation to the post you answered.


It is kinda implied as my last two threads addressed the book would be written by LA if he chooses to.


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## WaynefromOrlando (Mar 3, 2010)

Chris-X said:


> Because, like him or not, he still delivers the goods.
> 
> Although I'm not a big fan of his, his whole career isn't defined by his dishonesty. Armstrong's is.


Good thing I wasn't drinking my coffee when I read your post or I would have had to clean my monitor! I guess you have never heard of Monica or any of Slick Willie's activities while serving as Governor of Arkansas!


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## cda 455 (Aug 9, 2010)

WaynefromOrlando said:


> Good thing I wasn't drinking my coffee when I read your post or I would have had to clean my monitor! I guess you have never heard of Monica or any of Slick Willie's activities while serving as Governor of Arkansas!


Excellent, excellent point!


I could expand on your point but I don't want to get this thread moved to PO  !


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## spookyload (Jan 30, 2004)

Doctor Falsetti said:


> Bill admitted his guilt, apologized to his family and the country. Wrote a book about the pain he caused his family, friends, and staff.
> 
> Do you think we will ever see the same from Lance?


Wat that before or after he lied to a federal grand jury?


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## Local Hero (Jul 8, 2010)

Countless public figures have weathered controversy and scandal. Some better than others. 

On one hand Armstrong cheated and did mean things to people. On the other he survived cancer and started a cancer foundation. In the middle of all that he was a national hero who invigorated cycling in the US -- now he is disgraced. 

I think things will be OK for our disgraced hero. But only time will tell how history views the guy.


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## webdoctors (Oct 5, 2012)

anyone know what drug LA is/was using? I'd love to get something that could get me into shape to win TdFs or Ironman competitions :aureola:

Hell I'd invest in it, can you imagine the infomercials?


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## slegros (Sep 22, 2009)

Chris-X said:


> Although I'm not a big fan of his, his whole career isn't defined by his dishonesty.


You do see the irony in saying this about a POLITICIAN, right?


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## rydbyk (Feb 17, 2010)

webdoctors said:


> anyone know what drug LA is/was using? I'd love to get something that could get me into shape to win TdFs or Ironman competitions :aureola:
> 
> Hell I'd invest in it, can you imagine the infomercials?


No. Nobody knows what he is/was using. Nobody. Some day someone will write an entire book revealing what he was using. Also, some day there will be entire threads on the interwebs that reveal it.

We can only hope that some day, team mates will finally talk...


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## David Loving (Jun 13, 2008)

rydbyk said:


> “I was ready for some negative stuff and I've gotten it, but it's not even been worth paying attention to,” race director Mitch Hall told Patch.
> 
> He told U-T San Diego. “I think people have made their minds up whether Lance doped or not.
> 
> ...


What the race director said is the truth.


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## pretender (Sep 18, 2007)

Livestrong is a human shield for Lance the Cheater.


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## aclinjury (Sep 12, 2011)

pretender said:


> Livestrong is a human shield for Lance the Cheater.


Pretty much. I have a co-worker who just bought a Livestrong kit but he has no clue what Livestrong is all about. He thinks it's just another cycling clothing company that is worn by LA. The guy was so giddy up with his new kit that I didn't wanna to tell him what Livestrong really is. But I reckon in due time, he will find out the truth and will burn the kit though.


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## rydbyk (Feb 17, 2010)

aclinjury said:


> Pretty much. I have a co-worker who just bought a Livestrong kit but he has no clue what Livestrong is all about. He thinks it's just another cycling clothing company that is worn by LA. The guy was so giddy up with his new kit that I didn't wanna to tell him what Livestrong really is. But I reckon in due time, he will find out the truth and will burn the kit though.


Ouch. Yeh, telling someone about their USPS or RadioShack or Livestrong kit is on par with telling someone you don't know too well that they have food stuck in their teeth. Whatch gonna do??

As long as they are happy, that is all that really matters..


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## Local Hero (Jul 8, 2010)

aclinjury said:


> Pretty much. I have a co-worker who just bought a Livestrong kit but he has no clue what Livestrong is all about. He thinks it's just another cycling clothing company that is worn by LA. The guy was so giddy up with his new kit that I didn't wanna to tell him what Livestrong really is. But I reckon in due time, he will find out the truth and will burn the kit though.


There's only one thing you can do: Stuff a scarecrow in the kit and burn Armstrong in effigy at your office Christmas party. And deliver a powerpoint presentation with the evidence against Armstrong as the kit smolders in the background. After the presentation have a reading of The Secret Race and stay for a Q&A period. Your coworkers deserve to know the truth.


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## spade2you (May 12, 2009)

Local Hero said:


> There's only one thing you can do: Stuff a scarecrow in the kit and burn Armstrong in effigy at your office Christmas party. And deliver a powerpoint presentation with the evidence against Armstrong as the kit smolders in the background. After the presentation have a reading of The Secret Race and stay for a Q&A period. Your coworkers deserve to know the truth.


Prior to lighting the fire, perhaps they could have some straw man debates? :idea:


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## aclinjury (Sep 12, 2011)

on a sidenote: Livestrong kit is a little lacking, like Primal stuff seriously lol. I'll stick to LG, PI, Castelli.


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## spade2you (May 12, 2009)

aclinjury said:


> on a sidenote: Livestrong kit is a little lacking, like Primal stuff seriously lol. I'll stick to LG, PI, Castelli.


If you like good LG, PI, and Castelli, check out DeMarchi stuff. I dig their chamois, bib straps, and jerseys. Their short sleeve jerseys are about the best jersey on a hot day that I can think of. My only gripe with DeMarchi is that I really wish they'd use compression cuffs on the shorts. That's one thing I miss from LG.


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## Local Hero (Jul 8, 2010)

I like my team's Castelli kits. The "body paint" san remo suits are perfect. Our cyclocross suits are rad too. I dig the 3/4 length sleeves:











One of my training partners rides for GnarLube and I've been using one of their old Squadra kits on fun rides and at the velodrome (where I am not sponsored by my road team). It's friggan sweet. And pink socks to boot.


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## C6Rider (Nov 15, 2008)

*One more for LG*



aclinjury said:


> on a sidenote: Livestrong kit is a little lacking, like Primal stuff seriously lol. I'll stick to LG, PI, Castelli.


My LG bibs and jerseys fit me better than any other brand (Castelli, Sugoi, Pearl Izumi, inSport) I've worn.


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## Local Hero (Jul 8, 2010)

On a more serious note, if your coworker is wearing Livestrong you should be the one to break the news to him. It's better to hear it from a friend .


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## spade2you (May 12, 2009)

Local Hero said:


> I like my team's Castelli kits. The "body paint" san remo suits are perfect. Our cyclocross suits are rad too. I dig the 3/4 length sleeves:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Man, I wish my club/team would use Castelli. Almost everyone else is using Champ Sys kits, which chap my hide. Actually, the Chamois isn't terrible, but the leg grippies and bib straps REALLY dig in on long days and hot rides.


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## Local Hero (Jul 8, 2010)

spade2you said:


> Man, I wish my club/team would use Castelli. Almost everyone else is using Champ Sys kits, which chap my hide. Actually, the Chamois isn't terrible, but the leg grippies and bib straps REALLY dig in on long days and hot rides.


My old team used champ sys and I thought they were OK because I didn't know any better. 

Castelli is head and shoulders above champ sys. Expensive but worth it. All that said, my castelli kits are not perfect. Our team offers three different kinds of bib shorts. And I would rank the sanremo body paint with Kiss3 at the top. Then kiss2. Last is their progetto x2 chamois, which are baggy and hang up on the nose of the saddle when I go to sit back down (another teammate has a similar complaint).


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## Doctor Falsetti (Sep 24, 2010)

eekase said:


> What perturbs me is that tri race directors are willing to eliminate the requirement that the athletes have a USAT license to race in their tri. Per this article, they see the enrollment up the minute the athletes hear "Lance will be there".
> 
> "But when presented with a recent race request from Armstrong, Half Full for this year decided to sacrifice its USAT certification. And it paid off. After announcing last Thursday that Armstrong would participate in the Oct. 7 race, enrollment jumped 20%, said race executive Brian Satola."
> 
> Triathlons Part Waters for Lance Armstrong - WSJ.com


It appears math is not his strength. They had 17 more finishers this year. Less then 10% increase


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## Local Hero (Jul 8, 2010)

Registrants > Finishers




(and let's face facts: those who register because Armstrong is racing are probably *less* likely to finish than those who registered because they just love tris)


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## Doctor Falsetti (Sep 24, 2010)

Local Hero said:


> Registrants > Finishers
> 
> 
> 
> ...


good point. It seems that Superfog "Race" had more then a few large guys on beach cruizers. Wonder if it offset the higher insurance rates?


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