# Lance Retires -- Part Deux



## zosocane (Aug 29, 2004)

Lance announces his retirement -- this time for real -- from cycling. No Tour of California. 

http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/lance-armstrong-retires-from-cycling


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## sir duke (Mar 24, 2006)

First! 

Ho f*cking hum!


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## PlatyPius (Feb 1, 2009)

Shouldn't the title be "Part Duh."?


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## krisdrum (Oct 29, 2007)

Funny, because a Livestrong email blast alluded to this several weeks ago. I never bothered to check, but assumed it had already been made public and official.


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## pmf (Feb 23, 2004)

I for one wish him well. I was never crazy about him, but I did enjoy the years when he was in the TDF and the competition with Ullrich. It was fun to watch. Personally, I think they all (at least at the upper levels) dope. So I don't think Armstrong had the upper hand, he was just a better than average cheater. Sad to say, but the TDF probably hasn't been won by a clean rider in decades.


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## JohnHenry (Aug 9, 2006)

I'm shocked. I really thought he would ride forever!


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## tconrady (May 1, 2007)

(yawn)

He's been more of a sideshow distraction then any kind of factor in a race of late. Prolly way overdue. Not a fanboi or a hater....just obvious his time has passed.


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## Creakyknees (Sep 21, 2003)

I got 3 cents that says he competes in the Hawaii Ironman in the next couple of years.


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## bigmig19 (Jun 27, 2008)

Funny ESPN stuff:
On ESPN this morning they reported that LA had retired. After the talking head recapped the recent drug stuff, he gave a dramatic pause before saying "for posterity sake, Lance Armstrong finished..........65th.... in his final race!!!!!!" 
It was clear as day that they were trying to say that finishing 65th at the TDU was indicative of the folly of his comeback! Too funny, the biggest giant in all of sports doesnt have one cycling expert they can call to find out that placing 65th or 165th in the TDU is meaningless.
Not saying his abilities didnt drop off with age, but they were trying very hard to make that 65th place finish a telling statistic!


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## jetdog9 (Jul 12, 2007)

Was hoping to see him ride by in TOC, though.


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## atpjunkie (Mar 23, 2002)

and so it goes
for another 'great' sports comeback


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## lemonlime (Sep 24, 2003)

bigmig19 said:


> Funny ESPN stuff:
> On ESPN this morning they reported that LA had retired. After the talking head recapped the recent drug stuff, he gave a dramatic pause before saying "for posterity sake, Lance Armstrong finished..........65th.... in his final race!!!!!!"
> It was clear as day that they were trying to say that finishing 65th at the TDU was indicative of the folly of his comeback! Too funny, the biggest giant in all of sports doesnt have one cycling expert they can call to find out that placing 65th or 165th in the TDU is meaningless.
> Not saying his abilities didnt drop off with age, but they were trying very hard to make that 65th place finish a telling statistic!


Relax. They skewered Michael Jordan during his "comeback" with the Wizards, too. Even MJ wasn't safe. It's what we do, build 'em up and tear 'em down!


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## spade2you (May 12, 2009)

He raced a really long time and still is finishing alright. I think he deserves to do whatever the heck he wants. 



bigmig19 said:


> Funny ESPN stuff:
> On ESPN this morning they reported that LA had retired. After the talking head recapped the recent drug stuff, he gave a dramatic pause before saying "for posterity sake, Lance Armstrong finished..........65th.... in his final race!!!!!!"
> It was clear as day that they were trying to say that finishing 65th at the TDU was indicative of the folly of his comeback! Too funny, the biggest giant in all of sports doesnt have one cycling expert they can call to find out that placing 65th or 165th in the TDU is meaningless.
> Not saying his abilities didnt drop off with age, but they were trying very hard to make that 65th place finish a telling statistic!


I heard a little of that. To be honest, I was a little surprised they mentioned the TDU in the first place. Still, pretty sad that the expert sports network knows so little about cycling. Coverage was a little short, but Lance did some work at the front of the field to bring back the breakaway for his sprinters.


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## Snpiperpilot (Feb 13, 2011)

sir duke said:


> First!
> 
> Ho f*cking hum!


Let me be the first to say that this adds NOTHING to the conversation.

Thanks Lance, it was a good ride. Continue to good work.


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## spade2you (May 12, 2009)

Snpiperpilot said:


> Let me be the first to say that this adds NOTHING to the conversation.
> 
> Thanks Lance, it was a good ride. Continue to good work.


Ah, now I know why you hate Contador so much.


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## Chain (Dec 28, 2006)

If he ever comes back again he shall be renamed Lance Farvestrong... 


He's done a great job raising money for fighting cancer.

As with anybody. There are postives and negatives to how he has lived his life. He's done good and also been an azz at times, but haven't we all.


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## Snpiperpilot (Feb 13, 2011)

spade2you said:


> Ah, now I know why you hate Contador so much.


Post hoc ergo propter hoc doesn't work here. I've lost 6 members of my family to cancer, I admire him more for his charitable work than for his athletic endeavors.


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## spade2you (May 12, 2009)

Snpiperpilot said:


> Post hoc ergo propter hoc doesn't work here. I've lost 6 members of my family to cancer, I admire him more for his charitable work than for his athletic endeavors.


You're gonna love it here.


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## The Tedinator (Mar 12, 2004)

A 10 X 10 "room" is much more suitable for rollers or a trainer than a road race.

Just saying.


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## PJay (May 28, 2004)

*There goes my 2011 TdF pick.*

There goes my 2011 TdF pick.
Oh well, time to head over to Ebay for some great prices on Lance stuff.


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## Cableguy (Jun 6, 2010)

It's too bad some people, especially the ones who weren't following the 1999-2005 tours, will remember him more for his comeback than what made him a legend to begin with. 

When you're so good that people begin rooting for you to lose purely to see a different result, you know you've dominated something. He probably cheated, and he probably lied about it. But so did just about everyone else in the tour. Welcome to cycling.


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## vismitananda (Jan 16, 2011)

He's been an icon to the cycling world. Farewell my idol.


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## mohair_chair (Oct 3, 2002)

Much like a second doping positive, a second retirement should be a lifetime ban.


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## JustTooBig (Aug 11, 2005)

Snpiperpilot said:


> Let me be the first to say that this adds NOTHING to the conversation.


you have a LOT to learn about these forums if you expect every post to somehow add something of value to each thread.

or is the condescending response reserved only for those with whom you disagree?


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## PlatyPius (Feb 1, 2009)

Snpiperpilot said:


> Let me be the first to say that this adds NOTHING to the conversation.
> 
> Thanks Lance, it was a good ride. Continue to good work.


Anything posted here "adds" to the conversation. Maybe nothing is added that meets your standards, but it does add to the coversation. See? That number over there to the right incremented by one.


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## Dan Gerous (Mar 28, 2005)

PJay said:


> There goes my 2011 TdF pick.
> Oh well, time to head over to Ebay for some great prices on Lance stuff.


I hear syringes, blood bags and such things prices went down today...


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## 3rensho (Aug 26, 2003)

*I just want to thank yew for all you've done to your body, Lance*

"he's still clean to me dammit!"


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## LostViking (Jul 18, 2008)

Too bad he wasn't more of a factor in last year's TdF - but winning seven ain't too shoddy! Along with many others, I hope he was clean, even though the evidence seems to be mounting to the contrary.

I suspect a lot of the anti-Conti sentiment on these boards was triggered by loyalty to the big Texan. Wonder if Conti will get a more sympathetic hearing now that Lance is formally out of the game...nope, probably not.


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## Snpiperpilot (Feb 13, 2011)

JustTooBig said:


> you have a LOT to learn about these forums if you expect every post to somehow add something of value to each thread.
> 
> or is the condescending response reserved only for those with whom you disagree?


I see your point but seriously. Let me be the first? To piss on a thread? Not sure what adds to anything but the post count.

Now, if he said something like: Good riddance, Lance Farve or something at least moderately clever maybe that would add value but thread crapping isn't value added in my book. So yes, in that sense, I reserve condescension for those posts. Don't we all?

Your first point is true however, there is lots of pointless blather on the internet but I like to think we could aspire to a higher level of discourse.


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## Snpiperpilot (Feb 13, 2011)

LostViking said:


> Too bad he wasn't more of a factor in last year's TdF - but winning seven ain't too shoddy! Along with many others, I hope he was clean, even though the evidence seems to be mounting to the contrary.
> 
> I suspect a lot of the anti-Conti sentiment on these boards was triggered by loyalty to the big Texan. Wonder if Conti will get a more sympathetic hearing now that Lance is formally out of the game...nope, probably not.


I'd change that from evidence to speculation. Lots of the latter, much less of the former. Mind you, I wouldn't be surprised if he doped but if he did I'd have some disappointed but grudging admiration for how well he did it. 5000 test without a hit is pretty successful.


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## spade2you (May 12, 2009)

LostViking said:


> Too bad he wasn't more of a factor in last year's TdF - but winning seven ain't too shoddy! Along with many others, I hope he was clean, even though the evidence seems to be mounting to the contrary.
> 
> I suspect a lot of the anti-Conti sentiment on these boards was triggered by loyalty to the big Texan. Wonder if Conti will get a more sympathetic hearing now that Lance is formally out of the game...nope, probably not.


I don't think he would have won it, although it was sad to see him crash out on that fateful day. On a side note, I can't deny that it's amazing how few crashes he had during his reign. A lot of the previous winners of 5 TdFs were interrupted by injury. 

Outside of the US, Contador isn't nearly as despised as the US often makes him out to be. The idea that there are "good guys" and "bad guys" kinda reflects a bit of a n00b attitude if you ask me. It's a race and there can only be one winner. Sorry. I have been beaten by a few folks that I might or might not consider a jerk, but that didn't change the fact that they won. Most people who hate the likes of Vino, Contador, et al treat them as if they were personally wronged by these riders, which is obviously untrue.


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## Big-foot (Dec 14, 2002)

Snpiperpilot said:


> I'd change that from evidence to speculation. Lots of the latter, much less of the former. Mind you, I wouldn't be surprised if he doped but if he did I'd have some disappointed but grudging admiration for how well he did it. * 5000 test* without a hit is pretty successful.


Really? Any documentation of that number?

Oh yeah, going here will be of some help for the USADA tests.

http://www.usada.org/athlete-test-history#Cycling


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## Snpiperpilot (Feb 13, 2011)

Big-foot said:


> Really? Any documentation of that number?
> 
> Oh yeah, going here will be of some help for the USADA tests.
> 
> http://www.usada.org/athlete-test-history#Cycling


Nice trolling. Just count his tweets and you know it's more than 2. So, that web site is useless. I read that number someplace I don't honestly recall now. Probably a bit exaggerated.

But, he's been a top level athlete for 15 years, it's not out of the question that with in season, in race and off season, including the fact that each set of samples is tested multiple time along with his personal testing program. I can certainly see many thousands of tests. AC claims over 500 without having to deal with the US agencies. I assume based on the recent RFEC decision that they don't do any testing so we can't add them to his total.


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## zosocane (Aug 29, 2004)

spade2you said:


> I don't think he would have won it, although it was sad to see him crash out on that fateful day.


It was tough to see him crash, but it was that damn puncture on the cobbles that killed his GC opportunity last year. I think he would have finished third on the podium (again) but for that puncture -- finishing on the podium twice in back-to-back years in your late 30s would have been a nice way to bow out.

Ultimately his 2010 TdF team had too many climbers and not enough one-day racer-type horses (a la Cancella, Voigt, O'Grady, etc.) that he truly needed on the cobbled stage. When he punctured he had no teammates by him to give him their bike or their wheel. Lance had to wait for Mavic wheel change and then Popo caught up to him to pull him for a while. But the damage was done. Remember that Lance in the 2010 TdF prologue finished 3rd overall and was the highest-placed GC hopeful, and immediately before that got 2nd overall in the Tour de Suisse. So his form was pretty damn good. But when he knew he had a two and a half minute deficit to Contador and Schleck going into the Alps, it was "game over" in his mind.


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## Big-foot (Dec 14, 2002)

Snpiperpilot said:


> Nice trolling. Just count his tweets and you know it's more than 2. So, that web site is useless. I read that number someplace I don't honestly recall now. Probably a bit exaggerated.
> 
> But, he's been a top level athlete for 15 years, it's not out of the question that with in season, in race and off season, including the fact that each set of samples is tested multiple time along with his personal testing program. I can certainly see many thousands of tests. AC claims over 500 without having to deal with the US agencies. I assume based on the recent RFEC decision that they don't do any testing so we can't add them to his total.




Here's everything from the USADA and the UCI. 500? Not even close. https://cdn-community2.livestrong.c...c981f7be-e46c-4245-aa9d-d61ae110a264.Full.jpg


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## spade2you (May 12, 2009)

fornaca68 said:


> It was tough to see him crash, but it was that damn puncture on the cobbles that killed his GC opportunity last year.  I think he would have finished third on the podium (again) but for that puncture -- finishing on the podium twice in back-to-back years in your late 30s would have been a nice way to bow out.
> 
> Ultimately his 2010 TdF team had too many climbers and not enough one-day racer-type horses (a la Cancella, Voigt, O'Grady, etc.) that he truly needed on the cobbled stage. When he punctured he had no teammates by him to give him their bike or their wheel. Lance had to wait for Mavic wheel change and then Popo caught up to him to pull him for a while. But the damage was done. Remember that Lance in the 2010 TdF prologue finished 3rd overall and was the highest-placed GC hopeful, and immediately before that got 2nd overall in the Tour de Suisse. So his form was pretty damn good. But when he knew he had a two and a half minute deficit to Contador and Schleck going into the Alps, it was "game over" in his mind.


You're probably right about his GC possibility. 

I think he could have won the Tour de Suisse, but he really seemed to take his time during the corners of the wet and technical ITT. Perhaps he might have been a shade more aggressive if he knew it could have won him that particular race. 

I was bummed that it was his luck that let him down, although it still leaves you wondering what could have been. Regardless of the outcome, I really respect him for taking that chance and admire him for finishing the race. I think a few riders would have quit for a lot less and have.


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## JimT (Jul 18, 2007)

The coolest thing about Lance is he was the one that made me interested in cycling and kept that interest going. The greatest thing about Lance is his foundation. He is one of the best cyclists of all time and he is an American.


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## zosocane (Aug 29, 2004)

spade2you said:


> You're probably right about his GC possibility.
> 
> I think he could have won the Tour de Suisse, but he really seemed to take his time during the corners of the wet and technical ITT. Perhaps he might have been a shade more aggressive if he knew it could have won him that particular race.
> 
> I was bummed that it was his luck that let him down, although it still leaves you wondering what could have been. Regardless of the outcome, I really respect him for taking that chance and admire him for finishing the race. I think a few riders would have quit for a lot less and have.


Spade, watch 2:14 onwards of this link: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nj3-0s3wKMQ&feature=related Epic and sad at the same time.


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## sir duke (Mar 24, 2006)

Snpiperpilot said:


> I admire him more for his charitable work than for his athletic endeavors.


Great, there's something we can agree on. Congratulations on adding to the conversation. Tell you what, you keep your condescension and I'll hang on to my cynicism.Though I think I've a way to go before my cynicism matches that of the arch media manipulator Mr Armstrong. Your opinion may differ, but that's why we have forums such as these, as others here have pointed out. BTW I've lost 3 family members to cancer. Would that help my credibility at all with you?


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## Snpiperpilot (Feb 13, 2011)

sir duke said:


> Great, there's something we can agree on. Congratulations on adding to the conversation. Tell you what, you keep your condescension and I'll hang on to my cynicism.Though I think I've a way to go before my cynicism matches that of the arch media manipulator Mr Armstrong. Your opinion may differ, but that's why we have forums such as these, as others here have pointed out. BTW I've lost 3 family members to cancer. Would that help my credibility at all with you?


My disagreement wasn't about your credibility. I guess I was cranky. I just dislike anyone who comes into thread just to crap on the topic. I'm sorry for your loses. One reason I ride it to try and keep some of the bad possibilities at bay. We have some nasty family history so I try to do what I can to fight it.


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## spade2you (May 12, 2009)

fornaca68 said:


> Spade, watch 2:14 onwards of this link: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nj3-0s3wKMQ&feature=related Epic and sad at the same time.


Indeed. May not be as dramatic as the '07 Giro or '09 Vuelta mega crash scenes, but the grime and dirt on Lance and VDV's faces were both demoralizing and somehow inspiring. In just a few stages, Lance had more crashes in the last TdF than almost all of his racing combined. 

I didn't think this was a particularly entertaining TdF, (although it wasn't hard to beat the WCP Indurain DVDs), but something about this TdF was an all out war and struggle to make it to the finish line in one piece for a lot of riders.


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## ghost6 (Sep 4, 2009)

Contador is a doper!


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## rydbyk (Feb 17, 2010)

*In my book,*

all top pro contenders are dopers. Lance won seven TdFs doped. Still champ. I know some allude to his team having access to better "dope". Until there is proof, I will still respect his ability to win 7 times against others who doped just like him.

Sounds like he has two (2) personalities. Nice in front of camera (usually) and jerk when camera is off. So what.. His aggressive personality probably accounts for his ability to dominate among the other dopers.

I have always said that they are "innocent until caught" in the sport of cycling. For some odd reason, we idolize those who have not been caught yet. When they do get caught, it then depends on how they handle it. Stupid.

Flame on..


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## Chain (Dec 28, 2006)

rydbyk said:


> all top pro contenders are dopers. Lance won seven TdFs doped. Still champ. I know some allude to his team having access to better "dope". Until there is proof, I will still respect his ability to win 7 times against others who doped just like him.
> 
> Sounds like he has two (2) personalities. Nice in front of camera (usually) and jerk when camera is off. So what.. His aggressive personality probably accounts for his ability to dominate among the other dopers.
> 
> ...


With analysis and proof like that, how can anyone argue?


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## ChilliConCarnage (Jun 1, 2006)

Snpiperpilot said:


> I admire him more for his charitable work than for his athletic endeavors.


http://www.charitynavigator.org/index.cfm?bay=search.summary&orgid=6570

Seems funny that 85+% of all money they take in goes to "expenses" leaving only 14% or less to help the people the charity claims to be helping. You'd also think that Lance would pay his own way, being the multi-millionaire that he is, but he still expenses things like jet fuel in his chartered private plane that takes his to his vaious speaking engagments.

Makes you wonder.....


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## black_box (Jun 7, 2008)

ChilliConCarnage said:


> http://www.charitynavigator.org/index.cfm?bay=search.summary&orgid=6570
> 
> Seems funny that 85+% of all money they take in goes to "expenses" leaving only 14% or less to help the people the charity claims to be helping. You'd also think that Lance would pay his own way, being the multi-millionaire that he is, but he still expenses things like jet fuel in his chartered private plane that takes his to his vaious speaking engagments.
> Makes you wonder.....


I think that's the "good" payments they make.
http://www.charitynavigator.org/index.cfm/bay/content.view/catid/2/cpid/182.htm


> 1.	Program Expenses: Percent of total functional expenses spent on programs and services. (*higher is better*)
> 2.	Administrative Expenses: Percent of total functional expenses spent on management and general. (lower is better)
> 3.	Fundraising expenses: Percent of total functional expenses spent on fundraising. (lower is better)
> 
> 4. Fundraising efficiency: Amount a charity spends to raise $1. (lower is better)


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## Snpiperpilot (Feb 13, 2011)

ChilliConCarnage said:


> http://www.charitynavigator.org/index.cfm?bay=search.summary&orgid=6570
> 
> Seems funny that 85+% of all money they take in goes to "expenses" leaving only 14% or less to help the people the charity claims to be helping. You'd also think that Lance would pay his own way, being the multi-millionaire that he is, but he still expenses things like jet fuel in his chartered private plane that takes his to his vaious speaking engagments.
> 
> Makes you wonder.....


As the previous post mentions, that's the money they disperse to programs and services. 85% is among the highest in the industry. Largely due to Lance who is a walking, talking fund raising machine. Everywhere he does people find him, ride with him and then give money. That's the main reason, they have such low fund raising costs as well.


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## rubbersoul (Mar 1, 2010)

I must admit, rydbyk is becoming ever more insightful and cogent


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## Big-foot (Dec 14, 2002)

Snpiperpilot said:


> Nice trolling. Just count his tweets and you know it's more than 2. So, that web site is useless.


The USADA website is useless? And where'd you get "2"?


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## rydbyk (Feb 17, 2010)

Chain said:


> With analysis and proof like that, how can anyone argue?


A. Fair analysis on my part, in light of all that has transpired recently. Where have YOU been?
B. Proof? Apparently you missed where I used the following phrases: "In my book.." and "It sounds like.."
C. Right back atcha..


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## Thom H (Aug 25, 2009)

He retired and got in his foundations Gulfstream 4 and went home to the tune of $4,000 an hour air time or around $50k each way. Things that make you go hmmmmm?


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## sir duke (Mar 24, 2006)

rubbersoul said:


> I must admit, rydbyk is becoming ever more insightful and cogent


He's probably on PED's....


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## Snpiperpilot (Feb 13, 2011)

Thom H said:


> He retired and got in his foundations Gulfstream 4 and went home to the tune of $4,000 an hour air time or around $50k each way. Things that make you go hmmmmm?


It's not clear who owns the plane. The FAA registration says:

Owner's*	Name	MELLOW JOHNNYS AVIATION

But if the issue is dollars, spending 100k to make a million or two seems sensible.


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## rubbersoul (Mar 1, 2010)

the new plasticizer test was the death knell for Lance...no more blood doping


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## ChilliConCarnage (Jun 1, 2006)

rubbersoul said:


> the new plasticizer test was the death knell for Lance...no more blood doping


The "new plasticizer" test isn't new - it's been around a long time. But it's not ratified for use in anti-doping testing, since they can't tell what levels would constitute evidence of doping as opposed to environmental contamination.


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## spade2you (May 12, 2009)

ChilliConCarnage said:


> The "new plasticizer" test isn't new - it's been around a long time. But it's not ratified for use in anti-doping testing, since they can't tell what levels would constitute evidence of doping as opposed to environmental contamination.


From a strictly theoretical perspective, I could see lab contamination to be equal or slightly greater than environmental, but that's just my humble opinion. 

Regardless of the tests available, Lance is old and decided it's just time. As he recently said in a few articles, he has raced with some current racers' dads!  (shrugs) I'll drink to that.


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