# Commuting on icy roads?



## Guest (Oct 9, 2007)

Any advice for commuting in cold icy conditions? I am thinking black ice will be more of a problem that a light frost?

Tyre advice would be appreciated. 

Would slicks or some kind of CX tyre be best? 25 or 27? Should I just ride my MTB? Inflation pressures? Low?


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## Pablo (Jul 7, 2004)

Is it ice-ice, like black ice, or chunky ice with some snow and friction? You can go down without warning on the smooth stuff. 

If there's much ice, beyond a bit in the shade that can be anticipated and/or avoided, I'd ride a mountain bike with low psi.


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## Guest (Oct 9, 2007)

Pablo said:


> Is it ice-ice, like black ice, or chunky ice with some snow and friction? You can go down without warning on the smooth stuff.
> 
> If there's much ice, beyond a bit in the shade that can be anticipated and/or avoided, I'd ride a mountain bike with low psi.


Tyre choice still applies to MTB's. Would a slick be best, given the often touted theory on RBR that anything other than a slick on road is pointless (as aquaplaning is impossible), or would knobblies help to grip on the little chips, grains, bumbs on an icy road surface?


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## Pablo (Jul 7, 2004)

the_rydster said:


> Tyre choice still applies to MTB's. Would a slick be best, given the often touted theory on RBR that anything other than a slick on road is pointless (as aquaplaning is impossible), or would knobblies help to grip on the little chips, grains, bumbs on an icy road surface?


I've never used slicks on my mountain bike. However, for the chunky, wind-blown ice and crusty snowdrifts we have in Colorado, knobs are helpful for traction to move foreward. I'm not sure if knobs help for lateral slipping. I'm not sure what you've got in Scotland regarding ice.


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## Pablo (Jul 7, 2004)

I guess it might depend on the bikes you have available as well. A cross bike with bigger tires and a lower psi would probably be pretty similar to a mountain bike.


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## FatTireFred (Jan 31, 2005)

yeah, black ice is bad news... the just-after-a-snow stuff is much less problematic than snow-sun-melt-freeze ice. you gotta be careful cornering, and riding over what looks a simple 'wet spot'... knobs will help some on the unglazed white stuff


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## MB1 (Jan 27, 2004)

Pop some Nokian steel studded tires on your MTB and winter becomes a pleasure.

Ice?

We laugh at ice.

http://forums.roadbikereview.com/showthread.php?t=86446


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## JCavilia (Sep 12, 2005)

*Certainly not slicks*

That principle applies to dry pavement, not slippery stuff. As others have said, for snow/slush and other crunchy stuff you want knobbies, the more aggressive the better. For real ice -- the melted/refrozen stuff -- metal studs like the Nokians mentioned are just about the only thing that will help. 

And as someone else mentioned, when your front wheel starts to skid on real ice, you go down just like that -- boom, before you know what's happening.


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## buck-50 (Sep 20, 2005)

Black ice will take you down fast with slicks and with knobbies... Heck, I had a hard time even standing last time I hit a patch.

Has anyone encountered black ice with studded tires? though, how would you know, right? I mean, if they worked you'd never notice the black ice...


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## Gregory Taylor (Mar 29, 2002)

*Second The Studded Tires....*

MB 1 knows whereof he speaks: studded tires are The Way when it gets icy. The Nokians are excellent but expensive in the initial outlay. They wear like iron, however, so if you keep at it you will get your money's worth out of a set of Nokians. I thnk that MB 1 has a couple of seasons on his.

I popped for a set of Schwalbe studded tires for my single speed mountain bike, and found that they worked well. Just be sure to follow the break-in instructions - they claim that if you don't you will lose studs. The Schwalbes supposedly have hardened studs like the Nokians - mine held up nicely in one season of riding. Black ice can be negotiated with care. That said, I did go down on a downhill, off-camber patch of the nasty stuff that I should have walked.


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## MB1 (Jan 27, 2004)

Gregory Taylor said:


> ... I thnk that MB 1 has a couple of seasons on his.......


More like 6. The cost per smile is very, very low.


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## MB1 (Jan 27, 2004)

buck-50 said:


> Black ice will take you down fast with slicks and with knobbies... Heck, I had a hard time even standing last time I hit a patch.
> 
> Has anyone encountered black ice with studded tires? though, how would you know, right? I mean, if they worked you'd never notice the black ice...


We run the Nokian 106's and have never had traction issues on any surface although on dry pavement they have a lot of rolling resistance-on ice they are so smooth and roll so well we wish it was icy all the time.

The real problem with running the things happens when you get confident and stupid and put your foot down on ice......


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## Kolossal (Feb 12, 2007)

MB1 said:


> Pop some Nokian steel studded tires on your MTB and winter becomes a pleasure.
> 
> Ice?
> 
> ...


+1

Word.


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## Guest (Oct 10, 2007)

Interesting posts thanks.

I see you can get studded 700 tyres for Cross bikes.


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## Andy M-S (Feb 3, 2004)

I hope cheap studs work, too. I bought a set last spring when Nashbar was clearing 'em out--Innovas, I suspect--and they'll go on my "touring" frame this winter, since it has sufficient clearance.


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## goldsbar (Apr 24, 2002)

Do you really get that much black ice? N NJ is freeze-thaw central and the so called "invisible" black ice is seldom a problem. In reality, unless you're driving a car with a dirty window into sun glare, black ice is generally very visible. If the road is wet and the temp drops to 20 degrees, just skip riding for a day.


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## Pablo (Jul 7, 2004)

goldsbar said:


> If the road is wet and the temp drops to 20 degrees, just skip riding for a day.


Blasphemy!


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## MarkS (Feb 3, 2004)

I ride on slicks all winter. Even when the temperatures are in the 20s, the roads upon which I ride usually are clear and/or I can avoid the occasional patch of black ice. I have, however, fallen a few times. Maybe I should get a pair of studded tires. MB1 and Gregory Taylor live in the same climate zone in which I live and it sounds like they get good use out of theirs. 

The one piece of advice that I have is that you should be very careful if you ride at night. What happens along the last part of my commute is that snow or ice that is on the edge of the road will melt during the day and then re-freeze on the road after dusk. I now know that places where this often occurs and try to be especially careful in those places.


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## bsaunder (Oct 27, 2004)

the_rydster said:


> Interesting posts thanks.
> 
> I see you can get studded 700 tyres for Cross bikes.


thats my plan this winter - just received a set of 700x32 Nokian Hakkapelitta 106s. I will say that they are a heavy tire, so I may have second thoughts about running them for some winter tri's; but they will get several months worth of use commuting for sure.


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## Andy M-S (Feb 3, 2004)

*I'm in Wisconsin. 'Nuff said?*



goldsbar said:


> Do you really get that much black ice? N NJ is freeze-thaw central and the so called "invisible" black ice is seldom a problem. In reality, unless you're driving a car with a dirty window into sun glare, black ice is generally very visible. If the road is wet and the temp drops to 20 degrees, just skip riding for a day.


Just in case 'nuff hasn't been said--I've had two black ice wipe outs in my life, and neither was pleasant. We spend WEEKS below 20F (thanks to global warming--it used to be MONTHS). In NFJ, you're near enough the ocean to have some temperature moderation. In the upper Midwest, you can forget about that. My last black ice experience was going through an industrial park, where the trucks that are just starting up have a lot of water vapor in their exhausts...which seem always to be on the right. 

I was off the bike for a month and half last year due to nasty road conditions...this year, I'm hoping not to miss a ride until the temperature drops substantially below 0F.


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## haroldson5 (Oct 1, 2006)

*Gotta work*



goldsbar said:


> If the road is wet and the temp drops to 20 degrees, just skip riding for a day.


Sometimes you just have to get to and from work. I also picked up the studded cross tires when nashbar had them for cheap. I hope they'll work well. I had a couple of interesting rides last winter. Even riding the MTB with either slicks or knobbies was a bit hairy. Then again, 95% of the time regular road or touring tires are fine.
Now for a silly question:
I have been told studs are very beneficial after cars have driven on snow (the kind of conditons that are slick as can be for slicks OR knobbies), but will studs help on freshly fallen snow on the road? Those two scenarios seem to be more of a problem than black ice on my commute.


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## KWL (Jan 31, 2005)

Gregory Taylor said:


> The Schwalbes supposedly have hardened studs like the Nokians - mine held up nicely in one season of riding. .


I'll be starting the 4th season on my Schwalbe Snow Stud tires this winter. They barely look worn. Like MB1, I love black ice...it's so nice a smooth. What I hate are the frozen deep tire tracks and footprints on the uncleared Mt Vernon trail. That is tough going even with studded tires.


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## Sixty Fiver (Jul 7, 2007)

For about $5.00 I built my own studded tire which I run in the front when things get nasty...


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## Sledgehammer03 (Mar 7, 2006)

Sixty Fiver said:


> For about $5.00 I built my own studded tire which I run in the front when things get nasty...


Which would be from late October until mid March.

We used to ride our BMX bikes on a warm winter day and crash over the snow banks. Great fun and always a sore backside.


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## Sixty Fiver (Jul 7, 2007)

we've been having an amazing October and although the winter bike is ready, I've been pretty happy to be out bombing around on the "summer " bikes.

I have also been know to test pilot newly built road bikes when it's been - 30 C and have to say the wind chill is incredible at 45 - 50 kmh


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## tarwheel2 (Jul 7, 2005)

*Hills?*



MB1 said:


> Pop some Nokian steel studded tires on your MTB and winter becomes a pleasure. Ice? We laugh at ice.


What about hills? My commute route is very hilly, with several downhills where I top 30 mph coasting. Studs or no studs, it would be scary going downhill at 34 mph on ice or snow. Also, what is the traction like going UP a steep hill?


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## MB1 (Jan 27, 2004)

*Stay in the saddle and you can climb walls.*



tarwheel2 said:


> What about hills? My commute route is very hilly, with several downhills where I top 30 mph coasting. Studs or no studs, it would be scary going downhill at 34 mph on ice or snow. Also, what is the traction like going UP a steep hill?


Although I would try to control my speed on the downhills (there is this wonderful invention that is a must for geared bikes. It is called "Brakes"  ).

http://forums.roadbikereview.com/showthread.php?t=86174


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## tarwheel2 (Jul 7, 2005)

*hills*



MB1 said:


> Although I would try to control my speed on the downhills (there is this wonderful invention that is a must for geared bikes. It is called "Brakes"  ).
> 
> http://forums.roadbikereview.com/showthread.php?t=86174


My questions were strictly theoretical because it doesn't precipitate in North Carolina any more, and we haven't had snow in several years. Once we went 9 years without any snow. However, every now and then we do get a freak storm that paralyzes the city for 1-2 weeks.


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## kiwisimon (Oct 30, 2002)

i have been using studded mtb tires in the middle of winter here for over 10 years with no problems. watch that if you are going to run a studded 700C tire your plan for fenders might go out the window.


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