# I stand up and die



## Downshifter (May 30, 2011)

First, some background. More than 10 years ago I rode a fair amount, though not too seriously. Two years ago I rode as cross-training for another sport and did some rides up to 2 hours in duration, and a few sessions with intervals.

Two months ago I bought a Cannondale CADD 10 and started riding more seriously and with more focus. I seem to be making some progress but if I stand up out of the saddle and pedal, I run out of gas completely in about 15-20 seconds. It just kills me, and I have to sit down and rest. I can pedal fairly hard in the saddle but as soon as I stand up, I'm done.

I should add that there aren't many hills around here, so I don't do much on them, and I'm not very strong on the few I've done. Weight is not an issue; I'm 5'8" and 140 lbs.

So what exactly is my problem and how can I address it?


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## snajper69 (Jun 22, 2011)

Ride more lol. Do more hills. At least that's what been working for me.


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## psycleridr (Jul 21, 2005)

I think this is normal for most people. Riding out of the saddle is a skill that needs to be developed. In this position you use more upper body as well as using your lower body differently. So your body works harder and you HR goes through the roof. Practice sprinting or riding hills out if saddle and it will get better


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## multirider (Nov 5, 2007)

Most people pedal much harder when they stand. I have a power meter and can tell you that it is just natural to increase power output by 30-50% when you stand. Which is, of course, not sustainable. it takes a lot of practice to pedal at "normal" power when standing. I click down 2 gears to a smaller cog in the back to slow my cadence, and then pedal easy.

There is a physiological cause for what you've experienced - your muscles have 10-15 seconds of instant energy for high power efforts. Even when sitting, you can put out significantly higher power for about 10 seconds. Then your legs won't do that any more and output is reduced. If you ride easy for a while, the 10-15 second store is replenished and you can do it again. I'm not a physiologist and don't recall the proper terms for this scenario, but have read about it in a couple different places and it is consistent with what my power meter tells me.


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## Downshifter (May 30, 2011)

That makes a lot of sense, thanks.


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## Dajianshan (Jul 15, 2007)

I got a new bike and my performance out of the saddle had dropped off. Climbing is great. Standing and climbing not so great.


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## rbart4506 (Aug 4, 2004)

Takes practice....

Like you I was suffering on hills when standing, but I continued to work on it to the point where I was doing 5min 8%+ climbs standing...

Now I have returned to working on seated climbing since it is much more efficient...I still go back to standing for the steeper climbs, it just suits me better...


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## tom_h (May 6, 2008)

Train & practice more, out of saddle, and it becomes easier. 

Few months ago I made conscious decision to get better at it. When I started, I didn't (or couldn't) do it for more than 15-20 sec at a time. On a 20 minute climb, I worked myself up to doing 40-50% standing up (5 on, 5 off) Dropped 2-3 gears smaller in back, cadence slowed to 60-70, and kept my wattage output similar to seated climbing.

It's really helped my overall performance. Out of saddle recruits different muscle groups, so you're able to distribute the load during long or hard efforts. Even on flat roads, periodic out of saddle is helpful.

Once you've trained yourself to be comfortable on extended out of saddle efforts, you'll also likely find it easier to unleash 20-30 sec uphill attacks at high power & cadence, just like Alberto Contador ;-)


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## bradXism (May 10, 2011)

The above advise is all sound practice helps but having a monitor of some kind helps even more. Sounds like you may be riding too high of an effort to start with and/or using muscles that aren't there yet. tom h advise is good, A power meter would work but a HR monitor might be better for you. Your wattage will decrease depending on what you did the day before how long you have been riding etc. If you are attempting to use muscle that isn't there the same wattage could still jack your HR. Heart rate monitors are cheap, sometimes on sale as cheap as $30. It wouldn't hurt to look up training targets with these depending on your resting and max heart rates and go with the percentage recommended by tom h. After a short period you will know what efforts are appropriate.
Multirider nailed it for me too, drop 2 gears and then stand up.


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## specialized2k10 (Jun 26, 2010)

I have done a 60 min workout where you get off the saddle every 90 seconds and do surge for 30 seconds. If I'm not mistaken its about 30 sets of those 30 sec sprints.


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## DMH2979 (May 24, 2011)

I don't think it is all about riding and training more. It is also about knowing your body. I've trained and raced for many years, reaching a pretty high level. Had an SRM for 12 years. 

I know my body will not handle much time out of the saddle on a climb so I save it for the last surge over the top. I would say I am a climber/all arounder (no fast twitch muslces). If I am on a climb and riding at my limit for the given length/time of the climb, I know if I stand at the same power/effort level, my legs will immediatly load with lactic acid and I will soon get popped whereas staying seated, I am fine. I ride a pretty high cadence so not like a Jan type seated climber.

Knowing this, I can usually give one or two big efforts out of the saddle to stay with a group as it crests a climb but I cannot do this without a significant break (ie down hill/sitting in) for recovery.

So, I think it is as important to know your body as anything else. I've tried riding out of the saddle more but just doesn't work for me. I can at mid-to-moderate intensity but not at high intensity and this has nothing to do with riding or training more.


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## takl23 (Jul 22, 2007)

I really think shifting two gears harder makes a world of difference. And plenty of practice


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## JCavilia (Sep 12, 2005)

> it takes a lot of practice to pedal at "normal" power when standing.


This is the key point made among all the responses. The OP is simply working at an unsustainable pace when standing. Like many riders, he has learned to associate standing only with brief hard efforts -- short sprints, or powering over the top of a hill. So he hasn't learned to pedal standing at a rhythm and pace that can be sustained. Watch the pros like Contador on a long climb. They are out of the saddle for minutes at a time. 

A training suggestion: leave the bike in one gear for a few rides, somehere around 70-72inches (52x19). Don't shift, even when accelerating from a stop. You'll have to stand for all slow efforts, whether accelerations, moderate climbs or headwinds. It will force you to seek a sustainable rhythm. The idea comes from fixed-gear riding, of course, and that's even better practice for learning to stand efficiently.


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## going for broke (Sep 24, 2010)

I wonder if your breathing effeciently? When you push your body to give all you can give sometimes you can find yourself anaerobic very quickly because you tend to hold your breath or not breathe correctly. I use the nose in mouth out breathing routine and i rarely find myself out of wind whether in the saddle or out. I'm not a huge stand up and stomp guy but I've never ran out of breath when doing it.


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