# "Neo" bike frame - what's the word on it?



## shortynolegs (Aug 25, 2009)

I ran into this group buy over at bikeforums.net. 
The Exile looks great, especially in whit finish, but they have since released the "Ultimate" model for around $1,800 USD. Talk about sticker shock!!


https://www.bikeforums.net/showthread.php?t=598287.


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## ahmed (Jul 15, 2009)

sticker shock for an 1800 usd frameset?


have you been living under a rock? cervelo and virtually every other top end brand have 5000 usd framesets in their ranges.


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## shortynolegs (Aug 25, 2009)

ahmed said:


> sticker shock for an 1800 usd frameset?
> 
> 
> have you been living under a rock? cervelo and virtually every other top end brand have 5000 usd framesets in their ranges.


Translation of a $5K frame: $350 or < worth of made in Asia parts + $4,650 of marketing/painting/assembly = $5K frame. The Neo isn't exactly a household name, so how could it command this premium?


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## gandini (Oct 14, 2002)

My Neo Ultimate is on it's way to me as I type...
I'll tell you what you get for USD1800 when I get it, but I'm expecting a T1000 UD CF frame manufactured in the same factory as Stork and Pinarello (CarboTec), an Edge 1.5" fork, all to the latest and greatest specs. A few other goodies...

I'm pretty sure I stole the diamond on this one.
Still, if you think it's only worth USD350, be happy with yourself.


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## FatTireFred (Jan 31, 2005)

shortynolegs said:


> The Neo isn't exactly a household name, so how could it command this premium?




the fancy paintjobs?


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## ahmed (Jul 15, 2009)

shortynolegs said:


> Translation of a $5K frame: $350 or < worth of made in Asia parts + $4,650 of marketing/painting/assembly = $5K frame. The Neo isn't exactly a household name, so how could it command this premium?


well first off, it isnt ' commending' that premium since its not being sold for 5k, and also companies exist to make money, not to save people money, unless thats their goal; and frankly neo is sorta doing that with modestly priced bikes. 

they buy a catalogue frame, 30 pieces at 350 and sell frameset for 750, thats a 12k profit not including overhead and other loose ends.

not too extrvagant for a business, its not like neo is getting rich off selling asia frames.

also, a cervelo probably costs cervelo more than 350 per unit, im geussing all the molds, engineering time in north america ( where engineers get paid a lot), and higher quality material jack the per unit price up once you factor all costs in.


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## gandini (Oct 14, 2002)

Those photos are of the original Neo Exile, which is no longer available. The new Neo Exile Plus and Ultimate are available for a Christmas group buy. The frame has been completely redesigned (I haven't seen a Plus, but I have seen photos of the Ultimate and every tube is new.) The Ultimate costs a lot more than USD350 to manufacture, hence the higher selling price. But honestly, with all that Patrick throws in with the frame, I don't care how much profit he's making, the package is a steal/deal for me.


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## FatTireFred (Jan 31, 2005)

gandini said:


> The Ultimate costs a lot more than USD350 to manufacture, hence the higher selling price.




really?


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## gandini (Oct 14, 2002)

FatTireFred said:


> really?


Yes...


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## DIRT BOY (Aug 22, 2002)

gandini said:


> Yes...


And you have first hand knowledge of this?

Not say FF is right, but those who are in the industry or are VERY informed have a real good idea what these frame REALLY cost.

I DOUBT that frame cost more than $400 to make, total. I have seen pricing form CarbonTec, Martec and others CF frame pricing before.


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## DIRT BOY (Aug 22, 2002)

gandini said:


> My Neo Ultimate is on it's way to me as I type...
> I'll tell you what you get for USD1800 when I get it, but I'm expecting a T1000 UD CF frame manufactured in the same factory as Stork and Pinarello (CarboTec), an Edge 1.5" fork, all to the latest and greatest specs. A few other goodies...
> 
> I'm pretty sure I stole the diamond on this one.
> Still, if you think it's only worth USD350, be happy with yourself.


$1800 is a nice price on this frame, BUT not diamond. The fork is a really nice touch.


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## cmg (Oct 27, 2004)

goggle Neo-exile and read the stuff on the weight weenies forum. the frame/fork/headset/seatpost/sp clamp were selling for $750 plus shipping from the Neo-exile site just recently, well until the Oct 28 annoucement. So the seller discovered profit and has adjusted his prices accordingly, what a surprise. was thinking of buying a frame but by the time i decide it will cost as much as any thing else. maybe i should get a one-off carbon frame from Alibaba.com .


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## PatrickW (Nov 3, 2009)

DIRT BOY said:


> I DOUBT that frame cost more than $400 to make, total. I have seen pricing form CarbonTec, Martec and others CF frame pricing before.


Trust me they cost a lot more than that.
The pricing you saw was probably for mid range CF frames.


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## PatrickW (Nov 3, 2009)

cmg said:


> goggle Neo-exile and read the stuff on the weight weenies forum. the frame/fork/headset/seatpost/sp clamp were selling for $750 plus shipping from the Neo-exile site just recently, well until the Oct 28 annoucement. So the seller discovered profit and has adjusted his prices accordingly, what a surprise. was thinking of buying a frame but by the time i decide it will cost as much as any thing else. maybe i should get a one-off carbon frame from Alibaba.com .


yes I did raise my prices and margin accordingly, according to higher cost, larger inventory that I need to keep for the new frames in 2 models, 3 colors, 6 sizes and groupsets, wheels and saddles which cost you less than most other retailers.
this is what I have to do to keep the business running.


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## gandini (Oct 14, 2002)

Patrick, as a Professor of Economics (and an active consultant), I can assure you your business model is just fine...
Those who want a $2000 frame for $400 are not your customers, and never will be. They are in another market (on another planet, of course.)


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## DIRT BOY (Aug 22, 2002)

PatrickW said:


> Trust me they cost a lot more than that.
> The pricing you saw was probably for mid range CF frames.


No, not really.
Maybe a few hundred tops.
I have seen enough and even looked into gettting some and start my own brand with an investor. No, it was not for a few frames. Based onm 200-500 frames.


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## DIRT BOY (Aug 22, 2002)

PatrickW said:


> yes I did raise my prices and margin accordingly, according to higher cost, larger inventory that I need to keep for the new frames in 2 models, 3 colors, 6 sizes and groupsets, wheels and saddles which cost you less than most other retailers.
> this is what I have to do to keep the business running.


Ok, so you own Neo. Great. 

Are you guys doing the compete R&D on these frames? Using and making you own molds? Or just buying frames from Carbon Tec that other "big Boys" did all the work and buy frames when their exclusivity on those run out? use existing designs and tweek?

The price is nice. I will compare to one I ride form Blue Competition Cycles a RC6. 
Very similar pricing form you and "higher" grade CF tubing from what I have.

Now, I got mine on a pro-deal and I doubt they were selling it to me at cost. So I take that price, add it a profit for them and I get an idea from what I now on their cost. I will stand on that and say that frame you sell is not much more than I originally mentioned.

Now, compare you frame to their AC1SL, which uses a T1000/T800 tubing set. more aero and designed and engineered by them. They sell for $3200 a frameset.


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## cmg (Oct 27, 2004)

PW:
How did you come up for the geometry for these frames? the previous group had slacker seat tube angles for the small sizes. the new group has the more popular steeper seat tube angle. on smaller frames very few frames come with a 74 seat tube angle.


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## russotto (Oct 3, 2005)

Looks nice, but what's special about it that makes it worth the dinero. (not that I'm really in the market at the moment).

As for those wanting a $2000 for $400... isn't that all of us???


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## gandini (Oct 14, 2002)

russotto said:


> Looks nice, but what's special about it that makes it worth the dinero. (not that I'm really in the market at the moment).
> 
> As for those wanting a $2000 for $400... isn't that all of us???


What's special about a Storck Fascenario 0.7 that makes it worth so many lire?
I'd guess the answer to both questions is nearly the same.
and only fools think they can get a $2000 frame for $400. LBH


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## boneman (Nov 26, 2001)

*Asian Carbon Fiber Frames*

I've been living in Asia now for four years and follow the Taiwan/China carbon bike scene. Obviously there are lots of manufacturers, both in Taiwan and on the mainland. Some of the industrial customers we called on when I lived on the mainland were fairly sophisticated and I would have no problems buying frame, rims, components, etc. from them. The problem is always trying to find out exactly who made it and then doing some DD on the plant. There is also a lot of outsourcing so one needs to be careful.

http://www.neo-cycles.com/

Here's the website. Road frame is still listed at $750 FOB factory. Phone listed is in Shenzhen, the mother of manufacturing in Guandong province although the factory may be in Dongguan. As some others have mentioned, there's been a fair amount of discussion about this brand on weight weenies, mostly positive. Their stated geometry doesn't work for me so I haven't done a lot of work on the manufacturer, supposedly Carbotec Industrial of Taiwan but I don't know for sure and no longer call down in Shenzhen to find out. They and TenTech Composite are two of the bigger high end players in the industry.


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## gandini (Oct 14, 2002)

boneman:
Patrick has not updated his website with the new frame, but he has published photos on other forums, and has sent me many images of the new frame. I have design/engineering drawings of the frame clearly showing Carbotec, Ltd as the source. The frame has been shipped to me and the shipper shows the source as Shenzhen. It has not left China as yet.
I will be able to tell more when I have it here in the US.


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## boneman (Nov 26, 2001)

*cool*

let us know how it goes. i haven't seen one yet in singapore but that's just a matter of time along the east coast parkway loop. a lot of riders in singapore on carbon. in shanghai, rarely saw anyone except foreigners on carbon. i'm in tokyo for two weeks and everyone's riding steel. go figure.


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## cmg (Oct 27, 2004)

so does Neo cycles still exist? still can't find the website.


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## PatrickW (Nov 3, 2009)

cmg said:


> so does Neo cycles still exist? still can't find the website.


Neo is here.
the website is not..


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## stevesbike (Jun 3, 2002)

PatrickW said:


> Neo is here.
> the website is not..


kind of reminds me of this:

http://www.rockracing.com/rr_mainc


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## atpjunkie (Mar 23, 2002)

*just start your own bike company*

find Asian MFR
design stickers
done


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## kyler2001 (Sep 8, 2005)

stevesbike said:


> kind of reminds me of this:
> 
> http://www.rockracing.com/rr_mainc


$4200 for a Rock Racing badged frameset is crazy...
http://www.roadbikebuyersguide.com/view_product.php?id=2985&type=bikes

The white Neo Exile Plus is a real looker and seems to be a good deal.


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## rook (Apr 5, 2009)

atpjunkie said:


> find Asian MFR
> design stickers
> done



Having a friend who speaks Chinese helps too. Then, you get a website and start making some money.


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## FatTireFred (Jan 31, 2005)

atpjunkie said:


> find Asian MFR
> design stickers
> done




works better if you can get the rights to an old, revered brand name that is now otherwise defunct...


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## ajun8088 (Jan 16, 2010)

this frame is same NEO.http://www.e-hongfu-bikes.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=65&products_id=237


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## ajun8088 (Jan 16, 2010)




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## FatTireFred (Jan 31, 2005)

ajun8088 said:


> this frame is same NEO.http://www.e-hongfu-bikes.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=65&products_id=237




why do all/most road frames have a flat left chainstay?


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## robpar (Jan 26, 2008)

ajun8088 said:


> this frame is same NEO.http://www.e-hongfu-bikes.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=65&products_id=237


check the ebay carbon frame thread. Lot's of hong fu frames


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## ajun8088 (Jan 16, 2010)

rook said:


> Having a friend who speaks Chinese helps too. Then, you get a website and start making some money.


Hi! Friend.I can speaks chinese help you.please contact me.


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