# shifter indicators - how much useful are they?



## yuris (Oct 4, 2011)

In my understanding older sora and microshift dont have those. How much useful is it - for the beginnaer and after a while? 
I do looks at the twister shifters occasionally on my hybrid bike which i ride now.

thanks!


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## texaspancake (Oct 14, 2011)

I think they are somewhat useful in the beginning. Lately I've tried not too look at all and just go by feel.


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## silkroad (Jul 8, 2011)

i learned how to shift without indicators...


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## AndrwSwitch (May 28, 2009)

Not especially useful. It helps to have a consistent approach to chain ring selection that puts you in the right range, so you don't run out of cogs on the cassette.

For example, I have a triple. On flats and false flat climbs, I stay in my middle ring. On a descent, I use the big ring. On a steep climb, I use the small chain ring. If I stick with those chain ring selections, I can generally fine tune my cadence with my cassette without running out of gears. So it's easy to be consistent, and that makes it easy not to end up in a chain ring that doesn't give me the right range. Of course there are exceptions and I might make a mistake, but it's not the end of the world.


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## Aggdaddy (Jun 18, 2010)

I actually like the indicator type shifters. I don't have them on my 3 road bikes, but I still enjoy the comfort of just looking at my hand to see what gear I am in, on my wife's $150 Schwinn. 

Beats having to look under my arm to check where I am at on the gears.


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## TomH (Oct 6, 2008)

It doesnt matter what number gear you're in. You need to shift according to how hard it is to pedal and what cadence you want to keep. You'll always know what front ring you're on after riding for a short amount of time.


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## JCavilia (Sep 12, 2005)

Aggdaddy said:


> I actually like the indicator type shifters. I don't have them on my 3 road bikes, but I still enjoy the comfort of just looking at my hand to see what gear I am in, on my wife's $150 Schwinn.
> 
> Beats having to look under my arm to check where I am at on the gears.


You don't look under your arm; you look between your legs.

I've never been on a road bike with any kind of indicators. I usually know exactly what gear I'm in, and if in doubt a glance reveals all. Takes a fraction of a second.

So the answer is, not very necessary.


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## Aggdaddy (Jun 18, 2010)

It matters to me. It gives me an idea of how hard the wind may be affecting my ride. I am usually pulling my kid along in her carriage when I am riding the schwinn. I can feel the difference between the numbers for sure, but that's just me. I like to know what gear I am in when riding. 

I may be pushing 15mph in a higher cadence and maybe I wanna go the same speed but spin less. I check my gears to see what's available. Sure you can just play with the gears until it feels right, but when there are numbers right in front of ya, why bother.


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## AndrwSwitch (May 28, 2009)

Because the numbers don't mean anything. :wink5: IMHO, if you often run out of gears, you're in the wrong chainring or using the wrong drivetrain.

And no, I would not object if a touring triple and the derailleurs to make it work right on my commuter fell into my lap. 26-36-48? Sure! It would give me a lower than 1:1 minimum gear.


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## Aggdaddy (Jun 18, 2010)

JCavilia said:


> You don't look under your arm; you look between your legs.
> 
> I've never been on a road bike with any kind of indicators. I usually know exactly what gear I'm in, and if in doubt a glance reveals all. Takes a fraction of a second.
> 
> So the answer is, not very necessary.


Strange, I don't remember anyone telling me how to check my rear cogs on my bike while straddled. I think I know how I check my own gears.

Maybe you look between your legs. I do not.


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## JCavilia (Sep 12, 2005)

Aggdaddy said:


> Strange, I don't remember anyone telling me how to check my rear cogs on my bike while straddled. I think I know how I check my own gears.
> 
> Maybe you look between your legs. I do not.


Cool. whatever works for you. I should have been more precise. I'm not telling you what to do. I was advising the newbie OP that, IME and IMHO, it's easier and less disruptive to one's posture on the bike to look down and straight back, rather than twisting sideways to look under the arm. At least that's what works for me.

And I agree with you that it is useful sometimes to know what gear you are in, and not simply shift when you feel the need, as TomH suggested. Sometimes you need to know what gear you're in to know how to make that shift. If you're in the big ring and you need lower gears, you might shift in back if you still have 2 or 3 cogs left to work with. But if you're already on the 3d-largest cog you might need to shift the front to get the range you want. You don't know which if you don't know where you are.

But I don't think having an indicator makes much difference, because it's so easy just to look back between my legs ;-)


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## Oxtox (Aug 16, 2006)

they're completely worthless.

I know if I'm in the 'right' gear even if I'm blindfolded....my legs tell me.


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## BostonG (Apr 13, 2010)

Oxtox said:


> they're completely worthless.
> 
> I know if I'm in the 'right' gear even if I'm blindfolded....my legs tell me.


Word to yo motha.I agree with this ^^^


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## AndrwSwitch (May 28, 2009)

I like 'em on my mountain bike. I've been known to get pretty confused about where I've put my chain. I know if it's the right gear, sort of, but depending on circumstances I might much prefer to be on the right gear in the middle chainring and something than the right gear on the small chainring and something.


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## terbennett (Apr 1, 2006)

Oxtox said:


> they're completely worthless.
> 
> I know if I'm in the 'right' gear even if I'm blindfolded....my legs tell me.


I agree too. Sounds like many people make cycling too technical. Go with what your body is telling you. If cadence is an issue, you're better off with a computer with cadence than those gear selectors. The selectors won't make you a better rider. Sure I've looked out back before but just shifting based on what your body is telling you is the way to go. Truly get to know your bike and you don't need indicators.


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## NJBiker72 (Jul 9, 2011)

I like them. Had them on the Sora shifters on my old bike. Yes, generally you know right where you are but not a bad thing when you might be wearing down a bit. 

The only thing i miss about the old bike. Definitely not the actual shifting with those things.


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## cbumga11 (May 3, 2009)

call me old fashioned, but i can tell what gear i'm in by the way it feels?


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## PJ352 (Dec 5, 2007)

cbumga11 said:


> call me old fashioned, but i can tell what gear i'm in by the way it feels?


I'm not arguing the pros/ cons of indicators because that's been pretty well hashed out, but I'd bet that you can't always tell what gears you're in. 

For example, I give you a bike in a certain gear combo and have blocked your view of the gears. You're approaching a long climb cruising @ ~19.5 MPH with a cadence of 90 RPM's. Now, what gears are you in?

Point is, given the numbers above, you could be in either a 53/19 or 39/14 combo and IMO/E both 'feel' the same. Approaching that climb and given my options, I'd opt for the 39/14 because I'm more apt to have an adequate range to get me up and over the crest, so a sneak peak or indicators have their place.

Lastly, +1 to the poster mentioning the value of a cadence computer.


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## PlatyPius (Feb 1, 2009)

Gear indicators are about as useful as t*ts on a bull.

And I can definitely tell if I'm in the big or small front ring - they feel different.
If my choices are 53/19 or 39/14, I'll know which it is. The big ring feels more "notchy" than the small ring/the small ring feels smoother. Probably due to the ramp up in spring rate of the RD spring with the bigger chainring pulling on the chain more, making it feel rougher.


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## PJ352 (Dec 5, 2007)

PlatyPius said:


> Gear indicators are about as useful as t*ts on a bull.
> 
> And I can definitely tell if I'm in the big or small front ring - they feel different.
> If my choices are 53/19 or 39/14, I'll know which it is. The big ring feels more "notchy" than the small ring/the small ring feels smoother. Probably due to the ramp up in spring rate of the RD spring with the bigger chainring pulling on the chain more, making it feel rougher.


Sorry, Platy, I should have specified "....on a well tuned drivetrain...."

Find a good wrench and/ or stop running SRAM and inner/ outer rings will both spin smooth. :wink5:


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## terbennett (Apr 1, 2006)

I have been in opposition a bit with Platy on a few things recently but I have to agree with him. If you're detached from your bike, then you won't know. However, if you understand your drivetrain and are aware of what it's doing, you can feel it. It's not just a SRAM thing. I run 105, Ultegra and Dura Ace on my different bikes. Even I can tell the difference between big chainring and smaller chainrings. It's not snobbery; It's understanding your bike. You should be one with it. You should understand the feedback you are getting from your components when using them. Gear indicators are a waste. Like I said before, now noobs are getting too technical in the saddle. Great!! Just take the fun out of riding. Cycling should be an experience- not a chore. Sometimes I pull my kids Burly D'Lite trailer. I have a bike for that. One ride is all it takes to know where you need to be on any terrain. How can you have fun if the slightest grade has you worried about which gear you're in?


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## PJ352 (Dec 5, 2007)

terbennett said:


> I have been in opposition a bit with Platy on a few things recently but I have to agree with him. If you're detached from your bike, then you won't know. However, if you understand your drivetrain and are aware of what it's doing, you can feel it. It's not just a SRAM thing. I run 105, Ultegra and Dura Ace on my different bikes. Even I can tell the difference. It's not snobbery; It's understanding your bike. You should be one with it. You should understand the feedback you are getting from your components when using them. Gear indicators are a waste. Like I said before, now noobs are getting too technical in the saddle. Great!! Just take the fun out of riding. Cycling should be an experience- not a chore. Sometimes I pull my kids Burly D'Lite trailer. I have a bike for that. One ride is all it takes to know where you need to be on any terrain. How can you have fun if the slightest grade has you worried about which gear you're in?


I think you misread my posts, so to clarify...

First off, the SRAM comment was meant as a joke and Platy runs a shop, so the wrenching comment was also a stab at humor, thus the :wink5:. 

Second, this is a beginner's forum and (IMO) something members should keep in mind when giving advice, because in my view it should be tailored to the audience.

Platy, you and some others that frequent this 'corner' are fairly experienced riders, so if you say you can judge gear combos without a look, I understand, but I'd bet a lot of noobs can't. As I stated earlier (paraphrasing), this doesn't mean I'm a proponent of gear indicators and think a glance will suffice, but I don't see the need to avoid the feature if it's on a bike of interest, and I think the OP should know that. And he and others should also understand the importance of cadence because that directly ties to the topic of gearing.

Becoming familiar with a bike, the drivetrain and its operation are important, but it comes with some saddle time and experience. I think the usefulness of gear indicators is short lived, but (referring to my earlier post) if they help a rider build and maintain the proper cadence, I see no harm.


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## JCavilia (Sep 12, 2005)

This is kind of an amusing discussion. I still think the first answer to OP is that indicators don't make much difference, because it's so easy to glance down and see what gear you're in. As for how often you need to know that, that's a matter riding style and experience. Generally, a rider who's still learning will need to check more often.

I'll bet those guys who can feel precisely what gear they're in, because they're so in tune with their equipment, still look down sometimes ;-) 

If you really want to be in tune with the bike, and always know what gear you're in, ride fixed ;-)


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## the_don (Mar 23, 2008)

I have a dura ace in line shift indicator. 

I like it! But I come from FG, so gears are weird.


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## teflondog (Aug 23, 2011)

They're not necessary but they're nice to have IMO. I shift according to feel but when I first started riding, the indicators prevented me from cross chaining.


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## cda 455 (Aug 9, 2010)

JCavilia said:


> If you really want to be in tune with the bike, and always know what gear you're in, ride fixed ;-)


:lol: :lol:

For the win!1


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## Deering (Apr 10, 2007)

I remember the days that my bikes had down tube shifters or barcons and you can tell about what gear you were in just by looking at the position that the shifter levers were in. So in a sense, the levers were the indicators. It’s a different story with the integrated shifters. I also think you should have a good feel for the gearing and a simple look is all that it takes to help you out. 
But when I was commuting and after a long day of work and riding in the dark, I occasionally would want to check what gear I was in, but it was too dark to see. So I just set out to remember a simple two digit number. Riding a triple with a seven speed, I would mentally give my gearing a number. The tens place would be the chainring and that would be a number from 1 – 3 and the 1 would represent the small ring and the 3 would represent the large ring. Then the ones place would be the cassette with 1 being the largest cog and the 7 the smallest. So if I were in the middle ring and the 6th cog that would be 26. If I hit a nice downhill, I would shift to the large ring and smallest cog, then 37 would be my new number. As I shift chainrings or cogs, that mental number would change. Then as I started to get a feel for the gearing I would start to shift without really thinking, and then I’d be all off. Yes this is over thinking it and only a nut like me would do something like this. But riding late at night in the dark with nothing to look at, I really needed something to keep my mind going. 
So to address the OP question, shift indicators are not all that helpful. But a simple look at the gears is really all you need. Eventually you won’t even think about the gears.


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## Touch0Gray (May 29, 2003)

useless to ME.........anyone else that wants to use em....fine, but i have no use at all for them


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## terbennett (Apr 1, 2006)

PJ352 said:


> I think you misread my posts, so to clarify...
> 
> First off, the SRAM comment was meant as a joke and Platy runs a shop, so the wrenching comment was also a stab at humor, thus the :wink5:.
> 
> ...


I agree with youto a point but if the beginner is depending on the selectors (which they usually don't understand anyway), how are they going to learn? This is why I find indicators counterproductive. You find the gear that fits you and your situation. If you are always depending on indicators, you will focus only on indicators. Learning without them will help the new rider learn how to operate a bike without them. When they upgrade later, they'll discover that higher end groups don't have them and they'll be back at square one. However, you do make valid points and I respect that. My take is that a computer with cadence will be a better option.


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## Guest (Oct 22, 2011)

terbennett said:


> I agree with youto a point but if the beginner is depending on the selectors (which they usually don't understand anyway), how are they going to learn? This is why I find indicators counterproductive. You find the gear that fits you and your situation. If you are always depending on indicators, you will focus only on indicators. Learning without them will help the new rider learn how to operate a bike without them. When they upgrade later, they'll discover that higher end groups don't have them and they'll be back at square one. However, you do make valid points and I respect that. My take is that a computer with cadence will be a better option.


My first multi-geared bike, and my first bike I purchased as an adult was a mountain bike, that had 3x8 gears w/ gear selection indicators. As a complete n00b I found the gearing indicator helpful, and was able to understand gear combos to avoid cross chaining and front derailleur trimming almost immediately with no instruction. This proabbly would have taken me a lot longer without having the indicators on my first bike. 

Basically I figure out the needle positions corresponded to chain position so when multiple gear combinations gave close to the same ratio, I chose combinations where both needles were on the right (big ring/small cog]) or left (small ring / bigger cog). My FD also had trimming to enable cross chaining briefly without rubbing (say if I was going up a rolling hill then wanted to quickly speed up on cresting it, I'd stay in the big ring and use the trim (a "half step" on the indicator) rather than front shifting 

especially since on a MTB compared to a road bike it's more uneven efforts -- ie periods sprinting / periods of coasting vs steady cadence spinning like on a road bike, I felt it wouldn't have been easy as a bike newbie to know where my gearing was by feel. I've used hybrid bikes with similar shifters as commuter and riding on the road, never really paid a whole lot of attention to the gear indicators like I did on the MTB.

My road bike doesn't have the indicators and I don't feel I miss them/need them. Even if for some reason I don't remember what chainring I'm in, I can feel from the size of the change in gear ratios on a rear shift where I am in the cassette. Even though the gear ratios are close to the same, I can definitely tell whether I'm switching from, say 39front 13->12, vs 52front 17->16


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## PJ352 (Dec 5, 2007)

PhotonFreak said:


> My road bike doesn't have the indicators and I don't feel I miss them/need them. *Even if for some reason I don't remember what chainring I'm in, I can feel from the size of the change in gear ratios on a rear shift where I am in the cassette.* Even though the gear ratios are close to the same, I can definitely tell whether I'm switching from, say 39front 13->12, vs 52front 17->16


I think you're missing the point. That being, does a cyclist know the gear s/he's _currently_ in without indicators or glancing. In your example, you know _after_ a shift is executed.


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## PJ352 (Dec 5, 2007)

terbennett said:


> My take is that a computer with cadence will be a better option.


On that, we can agree. :thumbsup:


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## Touch0Gray (May 29, 2003)

see, it my opinion, it doesn't matter WHAT number the gear is, as long as it's the right gear, I can just feel it.

Personally I find the indicators distracting. I shift a lot, just guessing, maybe as many as 40 0r 50 times an hour depending on the terrain, I prefer to watch the road and traffic, not the cockpit.

Granted, I have more than 30,000 miles in the last dozen years but it becomes almost instinctual after a while


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## yuris (Oct 4, 2011)

thanks for all the comments guys! certainly wont be concerned about this indicators


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## minutemaidman (Jun 14, 2010)

Aggdaddy said:


> Strange, I don't remember anyone telling me how to check my rear cogs on my bike while straddled. I think I know how I check my own gears.
> 
> Maybe you look between your legs. I do not.


Im always up for trying something new, so today when I was out riding, I tried to look around my arm to see my cassette. Wow, doesnt work very well, if at all. It IS much easier to glance down between the top tube and your right leg. Maybe you should open yourself up to trying new things too and test it out. I think you might be surprised. It works pretty darn better. Not trying to tell you how, just a suggestion. Cheers.


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## velocanman (Jul 15, 2011)

I've never had a MTB or road bike with shift indicators, but I can see where they would be useful, especially when first starting out.

Like a lot of posts have probably mentioned, I will sneak a peak at my cassette to see how close I am to the last shift to prep for a chain ring downshift.. Usually this is on a climb and it means I'm probably getting dropped.


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## MerlinDS (May 21, 2004)

needed, no way. Nice to have, sure why not. I have been riding d/a 7900 for 2 mths now, and I still sometimes catch myself looking down for the indicator that was on the cable for 7800, didnt hurt having it.


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## Natedogz (Aug 25, 2010)

AndrwSwitch said:


> Not especially useful. It helps to have a consistent approach to chain ring selection that puts you in the right range, so you don't run out of cogs on the cassette.
> 
> For example, I have a triple. On flats and false flat climbs, I stay in my middle ring. On a descent, I use the big ring. On a steep climb, I use the small chain ring. If I stick with those chain ring selections, I can generally fine tune my cadence with my cassette without running out of gears. So it's easy to be consistent, and that makes it easy not to end up in a chain ring that doesn't give me the right range. Of course there are exceptions and I might make a mistake, but it's not the end of the world.


Yes, I've found little need or use for the indicators on shifters.


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## kykr13 (Apr 12, 2008)

My road bike that I've ridden for the last four years has (gasp) Tiagra, so I have the indicators. I look at them often enough when I'm riding it. 

But since that bike I built up a commuter with 105 that doesn't have indicators, and I don't miss them...


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## Touch0Gray (May 29, 2003)

kykr13 said:


> My road bike that I've ridden for the last four years has (gasp) Tiagra, so I have the indicators. I look at them often enough when I'm riding it.
> 
> But since that bike I built up a commuter with 105 that doesn't have indicators, and I don't miss them...


and there you have it....QUICK...WHAT GEAR ARE YOU IN?????


if you are like me...


the wrong one!


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## cda 455 (Aug 9, 2010)

Aggdaddy said:


> I actually like the indicator type shifters. I don't have them on my 3 road bikes, but I still enjoy the comfort of just looking at my hand to see what gear I am in, on my wife's $150 Schwinn.
> 
> Beats having to look under my arm to check where I am at on the gears.





JCavilia said:


> You don't look under your arm; you look between your legs.
> 
> I've never been on a road bike with any kind of indicators. I usually know exactly what gear I'm in, and if in doubt a glance reveals all. Takes a fraction of a second.
> 
> So the answer is, not very necessary.





Aggdaddy said:


> Strange, I don't remember anyone telling me how to check my rear cogs on my bike while straddled. I think I know how I check my own gears.
> 
> Maybe you look between your legs. I do not.


Interesting; Never thought about it until I read these posts :skep: .



Yep. I look between the TT and my right leg  .

And I actually look to confirm what gear I think I'm in.


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## NJBiker72 (Jul 9, 2011)

The one note about this thread is that most of us agree that we do not NEED them. Most of us seem to see a little use for them.

What I have not heard from anyone is why not have them? What's the harm? 10 grams?


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## ctaborda (Nov 8, 2011)

Mine doesn't really have them either, i'm getting used to it but, I still have to look down every now adn then


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## victorscp (Nov 8, 2011)

they might be useful but after a while your body adjusts to the bike and they become a cool factor


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## AndrwSwitch (May 28, 2009)

I think that shifter indicators probably have about as much cool factor as triple cranks. (And I say this with love for triples.)


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## Drew Eckhardt (Nov 11, 2009)

AndrwSwitch said:


> I think that shifter indicators probably have about as much cool factor as triple cranks. (And I say this with love for triples.)


Less.

Triples give you more gears for the same range and cog count which feel good when you're working hard on flat ground and/or allow for extreme range. 

A gear indicator is redundant - when riding along you generally only need to know exactly where you are when approaching one end of the cassette and would do better with a ring shift; and a little extra drive train noise lets you know about that.

In other situations where your oxygen deprived brain no longer remembers your last gear change you can just look down.


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