# Best Brakes for Cross and Road



## rallyrabbit (Aug 15, 2009)

Trying to make an all in one frame, and know I need cantilever brakes for cross, but what is the best brake for that mounting style that isn't so soft feeling for road use?

Any of you guys have any suggestions?


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## jroden (Jun 15, 2004)

I have the best two out there, pauls and froglegs on 2 different bikes with good pads and they are still worse than my road bike brakes. I think cheap avids or tektros are OK, also the shimanos are decent but sit kind of close to the rim. If you don't care so much about the mud clearance, the tektro mini v brakes are really nice and very cheap, they stop way better than any canti brakes.


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## andrew9223 (Jun 16, 2009)

trp eurox are prob my favorite. I've accidentally flipped myself over the front bars with them so I don't really need anything stronger.


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## limba (Mar 10, 2004)

If you read any threads anywhere on the internet pretty much everyone says Avid brakes suck but mine are pretty good with my new Kool Stop salmon pads. 
Tektro 720 and Kore would be a step up from Avid using the same salmon pads. 
Pauls and TRP's (Tektro Racing Products) CR950 and Euro X models would be another step up.
The mini v-brakes are supposed to kick ass as long as you don't race in mud.


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## yo mamma (Aug 10, 2009)

rallyrabbit said:


> Trying to make an all in one frame, and know I need cantilever brakes for cross, but what is the best brake for that mounting style that isn't so soft feeling for road use?
> 
> Any of you guys have any suggestions?


I think you're starting from a slightly flawed conclusion, that being that you need cantilever brakes for 'cross. The right brakes may be necessary for really, really muddy conditions due to a need for lots of clearance, but the typical cantilever brakes (not 'cross specific brakes) don't really have any more clearance than the typical V-brake when set up correctly. If you don't really need the clearance AND you really want lots of stopping power, try V-brakes. Even cheap ones, like say LX level brakes, have more stopping power than all but the very best cantilever brakes and they're not nearly as hard to set up, nor do they cost as much.


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## Greg Hejtmanek (Aug 17, 2007)

If you have road shift levers the mini Vs work without the little cable cheaters. In my opinion those are the best for the lest with good stopping power.


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## Guest (Aug 23, 2009)

I'd emphasize getting good pads for the brakes as well. Paul's or froglegs aren't bad, but I liked my froglegs a lot better after I got rid of the stock pads and got something from swisstop.


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## swierszcz (Mar 11, 2007)

Do not know about Paul's but I had froglegs, great looking brakes but they are built for mud clearance, not to stop or even slow down a bike. No matter which pads, and how many times my LBS tried to adjust them, after I gave up. Installed Avid Shorty 6,2009 and they work great. Initially they did squeak like hell but after basic adjustments they are effective and ..silent. They come with three different yokes to balance the stopping power and modulation. That the only weakness: I would prefer to have one yoke with adjustable cable length, but I will try to install Shorty's with the froglegs yoke.


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## krisdrum (Oct 29, 2007)

I just put some CR720s on my bike. Huge improvement over my old XT cantis. And I haven't even swapped the pads out yet (they are on order and should be here next week). Maybe not quite up to snuff with my Rival brakes but pretty darn good so far.


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## Guest (Aug 23, 2009)

swierszcz said:


> Do not know about Paul's but I had froglegs, great looking brakes but they are built for mud clearance, not to stop or even slow down a bike. No matter which pads, and how many times my LBS tried to adjust them, after I gave up.



Ridiculous, I used froglegs during an endurance cross race last year and did a mountain descent in the rain, ice, and mud with them. If they wouldn't stop, I'd be dead.


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## jmoote (Nov 29, 2007)

I think the idea that a "soft" feel is not good is also flawed. As long as the power is there, a soft feel at the lever usually means better modulation, and is exactly what I try to achieve in setting up my brakes.

Good cantis with SwissStop pads should rival any brake of any kind period, for power and modulation. Certainly more than V brakes (without the weight or hassle of a travel agent).


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## cs1 (Sep 16, 2003)

jroden said:


> tektro mini v brakes are really nice and very cheap, they stop way better than any canti brakes.


Are you using brifters with them? Most reviews I've heard about said even though they're short, they still need a V-lever, which brifters aren't. I was thinking about getting a set of the Veloce brakes but haven't for that reason.


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## jroden (Jun 15, 2004)

cs1 said:


> Are you using brifters with them? Most reviews I've heard about said even though they're short, they still need a V-lever, which brifters aren't. I was thinking about getting a set of the Veloce brakes but haven't for that reason.


Yes, they worked fine w/ regular sti lever, BUT getting the wheel out required deflating the tire (there's a fix for this using some special do dad) and the pad sit awful close to the rim. They are really nice working brakes though


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## Salsa_Lover (Jul 6, 2008)

kytyree said:


> I'd emphasize getting good pads for the brakes as well. Paul's or froglegs aren't bad, but I liked my froglegs a lot better after I got rid of the stock pads and got something from swisstop.


true

I have the Shimano BR-550, the stock pads are OK and look nice

but when I switched to these ones, the braking power improved a really lot

for wet conditions









for more braking power


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## cx_fan (Jul 30, 2004)

Road brakes - designed to stop you when the car is coming at you at a high rate of speed

Cross brakes - designed to just take the edge off when entering a corner with mud/snow/dirt and you do a two wheel drift and then sprint out of the corner. better known as "speed modulators"


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## Squidward (Dec 18, 2005)

I have a bike that has a V-brake on the front (FMF BMX bike brake with salmon pads) and a cantilever on the rear (old Shimano Deore XT from '89 - medium profile cantilevers with Kool Stop black pads). The front brake is mounted on a mountain bike fork but I'm running a 700c front wheel so the pads are mounted really high relative to where they would be mounted if they were mounted using the correct size wheel. The brake levers are Tektro drop bar levers that look like pre-2009 Campy brake levers without the shifters. The front brake is about as powerful as the front '06 Campy Chorus brake on my other bike, also with Kool Stop salmon pads. The cantilever brake on the rear of the bike is more powerful than anything else I have right now, even the disc brakes on my FS mountain bike even though it has the less grippy black pads mounted. I'm even considering getting a set of cantilever brakes for the front of this bike, too, but I really want to set it up with a mechanical disc as it is my foul weather bike and I really want to have a disc brake on at least the front of it. I've considered changing the rear to a disc brake, too, but I don't really see a reason to do so other than the rim wear issue.

I believe that a properly set up cantilever brake can equal or better the braking power of just about any brake system out there designed for use on a bicycle. Back in the day I actually thought cantilevers had no braking power and were a waste of time. V-brakes came along and I drank the Kool-Aid and never looked back, until this bike.

The main reason that, I believe, cantilever brakes get a bad rep is that they're not the easiest to set up properly. Once set up properly they should provide great stopping power if they are designed well to begin with. I truly dislike the one nut tightening system for the brake pads that locks in the toe, height, angle relative to the rim, etc, setting of most cantilever brakes with a post-mounted brake pad because getting this set up to where your pads are hitting the rim squarely with some toe-in is a royal PITA to do and it is not easy to achieve. On my last bike I guess I got lucky. The newer cantilevers, like the ones from Tektro, with the bolt-on brake pads using the ball and socket swiveling system, like the ones used on road bikes, should alleviate this issue. I'm going to get a set of these for my retro '89 Specialized Stumpjumper that I'm going to rebuild soon. Coincidentally, the rear cantilever brake that I'm posting so fondly about came originally from this bike.


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## rallyrabbit (Aug 15, 2009)

Tektro? I was under the assumption that Tektro was entry level garbage components? Is that wrong?

So, I guess the question is now, given that cantis aren't easy to set up, are v-brakes a better way to go?


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## krisdrum (Oct 29, 2007)

rallyrabbit said:


> Tektro? I was under the assumption that Tektro was entry level garbage components? Is that wrong?
> 
> So, I guess the question is now, given that cantis aren't easy to set up, are v-brakes a better way to go?


Interesting assumption, considering a quick search would turn up a ton of rave reviews, particularly on the CR720 wide profile cantis.

Vs will probably be easier to set-up and give you a small increase in braking power, but won't give you much, if any, mud clearance if you intend to race.


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## pigpen (Sep 28, 2005)

I have to pay attention NOT to lock up my Pauls on and off road.
Set any cantis up correctly and they will work. The Pauls were the easiest to set up of any that I have used.
Neo retro front, touring rear.


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## limba (Mar 10, 2004)

rallyrabbit said:


> Tektro? I was under the assumption that Tektro was entry level garbage components? Is that wrong?
> 
> So, I guess the question is now, given that cantis aren't easy to set up, are v-brakes a better way to go?


Tektro and TRP are the same company. TRP stands for Tektro Racing Products. Tektro brakes are inexpensive but they're definitely NOT garbage.


and even my Avids are working great with the salmon brake pads.


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## rallyrabbit (Aug 15, 2009)

After reading tons of stuff, I feel like reviews should be taken with a grain of salt. People only review if they have something really great or really bad to say....


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## krisdrum (Oct 29, 2007)

rallyrabbit said:


> After reading tons of stuff, I feel like reviews should be taken with a grain of salt. People only review if they have something really great or really bad to say....


So, do you think you'll get different types of responses by asking people for opinions here? Aren't individual responses basically "reviews" as well?


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## rallyrabbit (Aug 15, 2009)

krisdrum said:


> So, do you think you'll get different types of responses by asking people for opinions here? Aren't individual responses basically "reviews" as well?


No, you guys actually elaborate on what you think, it makes it much more helpful in figuring out what to do. Plus, if someone like me asks questions, you take the time to answer.


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## cs1 (Sep 16, 2003)

rallyrabbit said:


> After reading tons of stuff, I feel like reviews should be taken with a grain of salt. People only review if they have something really great or really bad to say....


Agreed, especially with something as difficult as cantilevers to set up. If the reviewer doesn't know how to do it properly, then their review isn't going to very favorable. So, take everything with a "grain of salt."


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## rallyrabbit (Aug 15, 2009)

Ok, so I am still trying to decide. I picked up a copy of the USA Cycling rule book trying to find a list of parts that are allowed and not allowed in Cylcocross Racing, but I can't seem to find anything specific.

Disc Brakes supposedly aren't allowed. Outside of that, are any Canti or Linear Pull Brakes allowed? Can someone point me to the section in Question?


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## jroden (Jun 15, 2004)

rallyrabbit said:


> Ok, so I am still trying to decide. I picked up a copy of the USA Cycling rule book trying to find a list of parts that are allowed and not allowed in Cylcocross Racing, but I can't seem to find anything specific.
> 
> Disc Brakes supposedly aren't allowed. Outside of that, are any Canti or Linear Pull Brakes allowed? Can someone point me to the section in Question?


to the best of my knowledge you can use discs at anything but elite races, i.e. nationals or uci events.

They are the best brakes out there, they work well in all conditions. They require you to own special wheels that will not work with your other road bike stuff, if you can live with those limitations, then disc is a good option, I like the avid cable operated model.

If you want canti, some of the new tektro are nice. You can use linear pull mini v too, but will need to fiddle w/ the setup and they have poor mud clearance. so, it depends where you live and how you will use the bike.


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## rallyrabbit (Aug 15, 2009)

I was thinking of either the Campy Veloce Mini-V or Avid Shorty depending on what is legal for local races that follow the USA Cycling guidelines.


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## dlbcx (Aug 28, 2002)

Use any brake system you want...these rules only apply to UCI Elite races, men, women and juniors. So, you are free to use discs, if you want.


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## jroden (Jun 15, 2004)

rallyrabbit said:


> I was thinking of either the Campy Veloce Mini-V or Avid Shorty depending on what is legal for local races that follow the USA Cycling guidelines.


any non disc is fine for uci or elite races. the mini v's are very nice but not so good in mud and it's hard to get the wheel out for a change.

The avid shortys are OK, they have a new design this year i'm not familiar w/ The spring tension adjustment is not well designed and a weak point, the tiny bolts tend to break or rust in place

For cantis the froglegs are a decent product at an OK price, they are not elegant but will last a long time and stop the bike OK


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## Josh Patterson (Apr 29, 2007)

jroden said:


> to the best of my knowledge you can use discs at anything but elite races, i.e. nationals or uci events.


Fact.


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## iktome (Aug 29, 2003)

cx_fan said:


> ...Cross brakes - designed to just take the edge off when entering a corner with mud/snow/dirt and you do a two wheel drift and then sprint out of the corner. better known as "speed modulators"


I'd suggest you spend more time setting up your brakes. I can lock up the rear in any situation, even with great traction. And get the rear wheel off the ground fairly easily with my front brakes. They work as well as I want/need them too. TRPs, cheap 4ZAs, Avids. I've been able to get them all to work well.

Getting them to stop squealing (in all circumstances) is another matter. I hate squealing brakes. Post mounts suck.


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## c-lo (Sep 30, 2008)

so to sum up here. if you race, don't go with v-brakes, instead go with tektro or something comparable. 

I've got the shorty4's on and they need to go. I've got multiple sets of shimano v-brakes from my MTB's laying around. but if they don't give good mud clearance on cross bikes than there is no sense putting them on.

Correct??


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## yo mamma (Aug 10, 2009)

c-lo said:


> so to sum up here. if you race, don't go with v-brakes, instead go with tektro or something comparable.
> 
> I've got the shorty4's on and they need to go. I've got multiple sets of shimano v-brakes from my MTB's laying around. but if they don't give good mud clearance on cross bikes than there is no sense putting them on.
> 
> Correct??


I suppose that depends on the general conditions where you ride. For example, if it's almost always dry/dusty (like in CO) then V brakes are fine. If you're in areas where there's soupy mud that may only build up at/near the brakes, then they won't work. In the remote times where the weather is crappy in CO it still doesn't matter much, since the soils here are such that rain or snow result in incredibly crappy mud that packs everything, and minimal mud-clearance at the brakes is likely the least of your problems. Muddy courses in CO tend to pack up everything and possibly even destroy your drivetrain. If you're lucky, the poor clearance due to V brakes may have forced you to quit before you got a chance to ruin your drivetrain. In that regard, you could say that V brakes may actually be recommended.


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## c-lo (Sep 30, 2008)

well I'll just not run them then! it sees gravel alot and at times it's muddy there too. I'll go for the tektros thank you!


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## steve_e_f (Sep 8, 2003)

I've got the Avids on my bike (an Axis) and have had them on there for about five years. You just have to stay on top of them to keep them working well and not squeeling. They aren't like road brakes where you adjust every 8 months and forget it.

I just ordered some TRP EuroX yesterday and am picking them up on Friday. I'll post my impressions here.

If I don't like the TRPs significantly more than the Avids then I'll probably just turn around and resell them again.


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## MShaw (Jun 7, 2003)

I have had several pairs of brakes on my Gunnar. It tends to be ridden as an all-round road/mtn/cross bike vs a pure race bike.

First set: OnZa HOs. Easy to set up. Reasonably strong.
Second set: Suntour XC Pros. Not as easy to set up. Not as strong.
Third set: Mafacs. Again, not as easy to set up (ya gotta bend em to get toe-in!) and somewhat more powerful than the XC Pros, but not as good as the OnZas. 
Fourth set: Shimano cantis. Easy to set up (think V-brake pads). Strong enough to make my fork shudder and stop quickly. Not quite as much mud clearance, but that hasn't been an issue in CO or here in Tucson!

I'm contemplating going back to the Mafacs with the adjustable pads/holders that Velo Orange sells. I like the classic look and can live with the braking. Then again, it could be better with better toed pads... Hafta try it and get back to y'all.

I also have some XT cantis in a bag in my bin o stuff, but I'd rather run the XC Pros...

M


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## unclefuzzy_ss (Nov 23, 2002)

Can't remember if the OP is going custom or not, but it sounds as if he may be. If you'r elooking for the Ultimate in versatility, being able to haul down from a stop in no time flat, yet also perform well in dirt and accept bigger tires, I'm somewhat surprised no one has mentioned the Paul Racer. Ols school center pull action. I've always felt that when set up right(like any brake, really), they work very well. Strong and positive. You can go with a center mount, or if you're going custom, have direct racer mounts installed by your builder.


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## swierszcz (Mar 11, 2007)

kytyree said:


> Ridiculous, I used froglegs during an endurance cross race last year and did a mountain descent in the rain, ice, and mud with them. If they wouldn't stop, I'd be dead.


Do not question your experience but after going through two different set of rims, two or three bike shops trying to setup my froglegs, maybe you just got lucky. Sure, after spending countless hours on setup, changing the pads etc I got some improvements in the stopping power but.. I prefer to ride my bike.And I spent maybe and hour adjusting Shorty's 6 2009 version- they just worked out of the box. So what do you think my preference would be?


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