# Sram long cage disadvantages



## ron.corleone (Nov 3, 2010)

Hi,
Just wondering if there are any disadvantages to running a SRAM APEX or RIVAL MID Cage vs a short cage when using regular cassettes. 

for example would there be slower shifting or any drawbacks when running say a 12-25 with a mid cage... 

I some times use a 12-32 but for the most part have a 12-25 for most of the saddle time. I just don't feel like reinstalling and retune a deraliure if i don't have to... 

tHX


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## KCTele (Apr 6, 2010)

I run an apex w/ an11-32. It is s tad slow on the up shift IMO. Considering, switching to a rival or force short cage w/ an 11-28. I think that is is probably the strikes just about the right balance between low & high ends.


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## Spursrider (Jun 8, 2010)

I have 2 bikes : Bike 1 on Apex with 11-32 and Bike 2 on Rival short cage with 11-26. 
My LBS guy told me I cannot swap over the wheel with 11-26 cassette from Bike 2 to Bike 1 without shortening the chain and retuning the RD on Bike 1.


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## KCTele (Apr 6, 2010)

Spursrider said:


> I have 2 bikes : Bike 1 on Apex with 11-32 and Bike 2 on Rival short cage with 11-26.
> My LBS guy told me I cannot swap over the wheel with 11-26 cassette from Bike 2 to Bike 1 without shortening the chain and retuning the RD on Bike 1.


Your bike guy is correct about the chain. The 11-32 requires a longer chain.


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## cxwrench (Nov 9, 2004)

KCTele said:


> I run an apex w/ an11-32. It is s tad slow on the up shift IMO. Considering, switching to a rival or force short cage w/ an 11-28. I think that is is probably the strikes just about the right balance between low & high ends.


there is absolutely no difference in how quickly a medium cage derailleur shifts compared to a short cage. none. the shift takes place at the upper pulley, and it is not affected at all by the length of the cage below it.


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## KCTele (Apr 6, 2010)

cxwrench said:


> there is absolutely no difference in how quickly a medium cage derailleur shifts compared to a short cage. none. the shift takes place at the upper pulley, and it is not affected at all by the length of the cage below it.


Totally disagree. Chain movement up the cassette is a bit "slower" on the my apex mid cage than the short cage 12-26 that i previous had. Now we are talking milliseconds, but their is no denying the action in moving the chain is not as fast. I like the apex 11-32 setup. I have over 2600 miles on the setup and have no plan to change. Just being honest in how mine works.


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## cinelliguy (Jan 4, 2011)

Over the summer I was preparing a bike to do a three day ride in the Sierras featuring the Sonora and Tioga Pass and wanted some more gears. Went from Force short cage, 13/28 to a Rival medium, 13/32. I did not notice any detectable difference, just about the same shifting.


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## cxwrench (Nov 9, 2004)

KCTele said:


> Totally disagree. Chain movement up the cassette is a bit "slower" on the my apex mid cage than the short cage 12-26 that i previous had. Now we are talking milliseconds, but their is no denying the action in moving the chain is not as fast. I like the apex 11-32 setup. I have over 2600 miles on the setup and have no plan to change. Just being honest in how mine works.


disagree all you want, but your shifting isn't 'milliseconds' slower because the derailleur is a medium/long cage. this is one of the biggest myths in cycling. there are any number of things that could slow the shifting down a tiny bit, and they include the larger jumps between the bigger cogs...if this is on the same bike and nothing else has been changed, that is likely it. 
trust me...it is most definitely NOT the longer derailleur cage. if you still think it is, maybe you could explain how that might work. i'm all ears.


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## KCTele (Apr 6, 2010)

cxwrench said:


> disagree all you want, but your shifting isn't 'milliseconds' slower because the derailleur is a medium/long cage. this is one of the biggest myths in cycling. there are any number of things that could slow the shifting down a tiny bit, and they include the larger jumps between the bigger cogs...if this is on the same bike and nothing else has been changed, that is likely it.
> trust me...it is most definitely NOT the longer derailleur cage. if you still think it is, maybe you could explain how that might work. i'm all ears.


Okay, whatever, I guess it just seems slower & I'm just imagining things. I'll keep telling myself when shifting from 19 up to 28 that mr wrench assures me that the long cage is exactly the same as my old short cage & I am totally fantasizing difference.


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## cxwrench (Nov 9, 2004)

KCTele said:


> Okay, whatever, I guess it just seems slower & I'm just imagining things. I'll keep telling myself when shifting from 19 up to 28 that mr wrench assures me that the long cage is exactly the same as my old short cage & I am totally fantasizing difference.


ok, why don't you explain to me in mechanical terms how the longer cage can slow down the shift, because at this time your argument is based solely on your 'perception' of how quickly the shift takes place. i've explained in mechanical terms why that isn't the problem, but you don't want to accept that. you talk about the shifts going from the 19 cog to larger cogs...i posted earlier that this is what can very slightly slow down the shift when compared to 1 tooth jumps lower on the cassette...not the length of the cage. 
the shift takes place at the upper pulley. it is attached to the body of the derailleur which moves laterally (and vertically) to move the chain from one cog to the next. the longer cage exists only to wrap more chain for triples and wide-range doubles. there is no tension on the chain below the upper pulley. *all of these facts are widely accepted*. now go look at a rear derailleur and please explain how a longer cage will affect how that upper pulley moves and does it job. 
i don't mean to hammer away at you about this, but it's a perception thing. or maybe you just can't admit when you're wrong


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## new2rd (Aug 8, 2010)

cxwrench said:


> ok, why don't you explain to me in mechanical terms how the longer cage can slow down the shift, because at this time your argument is based solely on your 'perception' of how quickly the shift takes place. i've explained in mechanical terms why that isn't the problem, but you don't want to accept that. you talk about the shifts going from the 19 cog to larger cogs...i posted earlier that this is what can very slightly slow down the shift when compared to 1 tooth jumps lower on the cassette...not the length of the cage.
> the shift takes place at the upper pulley. it is attached to the body of the derailleur which moves laterally (and vertically) to move the chain from one cog to the next. the longer cage exists only to wrap more chain for triples and wide-range doubles. there is no tension on the chain below the upper pulley. *all of these facts are widely accepted*. now go look at a rear derailleur and please explain how a longer cage will affect how that upper pulley moves and does it job.
> i don't mean to hammer away at you about this, but it's a perception thing. or maybe you just can't admit when you're wrong


I'm guessing that you have a lot of experience "wrenching" and although I'm not an engineer nor am I a seasoned mechanic, what you say makes sense. I just have one question:

Based on the design of RD's being the same across the different models, should one expect the same rear shifting from Red or Force compared to Apex? In other words, is the only reason to switch RD's based on weight factor or bling?


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## cxwrench (Nov 9, 2004)

new2rd said:


> I'm guessing that you have a lot of experience "wrenching" and although I'm not an engineer nor am I a seasoned mechanic, what you say makes sense. I just have one question:
> 
> Based on the design of RD's being the same across the different models, should one expect the same rear shifting from Red or Force compared to Apex? In other words, is the only reason to switch RD's based on weight factor or bling?


if you used the same shifters w/ each of the different derailleurs, yes...the only difference is weight and/or bling factor.


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## new2rd (Aug 8, 2010)

cxwrench said:


> if you used the same shifters w/ each of the different derailleurs, yes...the only difference is weight and/or bling factor.


That's what I thought. I'm swapping my cassette to a 12-26 and was told that I can now switch to a short cage... Umm, I don't think so. I'll stick with the Apex until it breaks or wears out.


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## fenderf4i (Sep 16, 2011)

The Apex RD is also made in a short cage version.


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## Scott in MN (Jan 6, 2012)

cxwrench said:


> or maybe you just can't admit when you're wrong


Lighten up Francis


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## cxwrench (Nov 9, 2004)

Scott in MN said:


> Lighten up Francis


there hasn't been a post in this thread that has contained any useful information in a week, and you reply w/ that? trying to raise the post count? :skep:


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## ron.corleone (Nov 3, 2010)

cxwrench said:


> there hasn't been a post in this thread that has contained any useful information in a week, and you reply w/ that? trying to raise the post count? :skep:


Francis there hasn't been anything useful out of you except hot air since i asked the question... so STFU


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## cxwrench (Nov 9, 2004)

ron.corleone said:


> Francis there hasn't been anything useful out of you except hot air since i asked the question... so STFU


i replied to a poster that provided incorrect information. i was trying to make sure that YOU got the correct information, which i did. he persisted, and i asked him to explain his side and he could not provide a sound reply. 
how in any way is this 'hot air'? 
and why should you care when some guy gives me sh*t and i call him on it?


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## ron.corleone (Nov 3, 2010)

cxwrench said:


> i replied to a poster that provided incorrect information. i was trying to make sure that YOU got the correct information, which i did. he persisted, and i asked him to explain his side and he could not provide a sound reply.
> how in any way is this 'hot air'?
> and why should you care when some guy gives me sh*t and i call him on it?


Shhhhhh


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## cxwrench (Nov 9, 2004)

ron.corleone said:


> Shhhhhh


yeah, that's gonna work.


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