# New here, opinions on Look KG381



## MikeS123

To start off, a couple of weeks ago I decided I wanted to get a road bike to increase my cardio along with weight lifting. I have run in the past and I hate it. I do love enjoy riding even though all I have now is a walmart mountain bike (I did have a road bike when I was a teenager, but it was also a walmart bike too). Initially I thought I would just go buy a $200 or $300 bike and that would be it....how little did I know.  

I have been searching Craigslist, ebay, bikes direct, and went to REI and my LBS. I have come to the conclusion, based on what most people suggest, I will probably buy from my LBS for their guidance since I am new. I went and test rode a 2011 Trek 1.1 yesterday, and I liked it but it will take getting a while to get used to the differences vs.a mountain bike.

But my real question is I found a used bike at another LBS (about 20 miles away) for a couple hundred more than the Trek and wondered if it was worth it? The Trek is already more than I had planned on spending, but this does seem like a really good deal. 

LOOK KG381 Carbon Road Bike - $950

Bike is used but in good condition and was well kept. Drivetrain parts have a bit of surface corrosion but are still in good working condition. 

55cm...........Fits riders 5'9-5'11 tall..........Frame Dimensions 55cm TT, 12cm HT

Details
Full carbon frame and fork
Shimano DuraAce 9spd Shifters
Shimano DuraAce 9spd Front and Rear Derailleurs
Shimano DuraAce 9spd Crankset 172.5mm (53/39/30)
Shimano DuraAce Brakes
Shimano Ultegra Chain
Shimano DuraAce 9spd Cassette
Look Carbon Stem (110mm)
Easton EC90 Carbon Handlebar
Mavic Ksyrium SL Wheelset
Michelin Tires
Look Carbon Seatpost
Selle Italia Saddle
Pedals not included


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## AndrwSwitch

If it doesn't fit you well, it'll end up right back at the LBS where you saw it.

LOOK is a pretty well-regarded manufacturer. Shimano Dura Ace is the top-of-the-line component group from a very good company. The fact that it's 9-speed makes the bike pretty old. It's from somewhere from 1997-2004.

For me, this might be a somewhat difficult decision. Starting with a new bike can be nice. A lot of posters will advise against buying used carbon; while it's something I've done myself, I do think they have valid points. While my experience of the bottom of Shimano's line is that it can be tuned to function perfectly well, I do think there are some real advantages to their nicer component groups, and I think this applies to stuff as old as a '97-'04 period Dura-Ace build. Both bikes will be pretty equal in terms of what they do for your fitness.

Have you seen the LOOK? Have you ridden it? A bad fit or trashed components would both make the decision a lot easier.


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## MikeS123

I plan to go look at it tomorrow in person and go for a test ride. I could get the Trek 1.1 for $670 at my LBS, I just wondered if it was worth the difference in price to go with the Look.

I was also looking at a 2005 Cannondale R900 that someone local had for sale for $600. I don't have any details on that one, but I may go check it out too.


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## AndrwSwitch

Certainly worth looking at the LOOK (har har.) It's going to depend a lot on condition. If it was a second bike belonging to a dentist who found out his first one didn't have enough cachet and who only rode on nice days and kept it in a climate-controlled interior room, it's potentially quite a score. You can't let that blind you to the fit, though, which is the most important. If it was a racer's primary bike, you're looking at something that saw thousands of miles a year while he owned it, and has probably been crashed, traveled, and ridden hard. Actual damage strikes me as unlikely on a bike being sold via a LBS - usually if a shop is selling something high-end, their main business is retail bikes and they do the occasional consignment sale of something in good condition, although the big used shop near me certainly does some higher-end consignment too. Anyway, you need to be a little wary because sooner or later, everything wears out and if this bike was owned by a high-mileage rider, it's definitely going to be in "that stage" of its life, even if it does have nicer components.

Here's a resource that will help you out a lot with looking at used bikes.

BikePedia - 2006 Cannondale R900 Complete Bicycle

I think they can be a great way to stretch a buck, but since this is your first road bike after a long layoff and your first "real" road bike, I think the help of an LBS is very useful. To my mind, the best resource for someone who wants to stretch a dollar on a road bike is an LBS that specializes in used bikes and has knowledgeable employees. IMO, the big advantages of retail bikes are that you (probably) get them in good running order and you get to try several all at once. Shops have the potential to give you both of those advantages on used bikes too, although people's experiences certainly vary.


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## Chris-X

I have two 55cm kg 381's which I bought off ebay. The top tube on the 55 is 56.7 cm so unless you're closer to 5'll" you might want to pass. The seat tube angle of 72.5 degrees shortens the top tube a little. I'm 5'9" and use a zero set back seat post on the looks.

The head tube is 15cm, I just measured it. I'm riding a 56 Roubaix now which is somewhat more upright. 

A 381 is a great bike which was ridden in the pro peloton. The technology is a little old with carbon tubes mated to aluminum lugs. 

The frame is not nearly as stiff at the bb as current bikes but the ride is very damped and riding no- hands it is as solid as a rock. The seat tube angle is a laid back 72.5 degrees which probably contributes to the smooth ride. The rear dropouts are adjustable and you can fit up to 28mm tires on the rear which I like.

If you're fairly supple, you'll like the frame but it does put you in a racier position.


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## Chris-X

15.1 Head tube. 56.9 top tube..

Weight Weenies • View topic - Look KG 381 Geometry


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## MikeS123

Well I am around 5'10" with shoes on so I guess we'll see. The Trek 1.1 I test rode was a 54cm.


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## PJ352

IMO, all 'round good info provided thus far, but I'll offer my prospective on a couple of things.

Like most anything, buying used versus new has advantages and disadvantages, even when buying from an LBS. Generally speaking, buying used can get more bike for the money, but it comes with a loss of warranty and unknowns about the bikes history and mechanical state. A savvy buyer can better their odds of success because they know bikes, so IMO the best candidate for buying used is a more experienced (and mechanically inclined) rider.

Buying new (from an LBS) greatly simplifies the process because the buyer gets a warranty, sizing/ fit assistance and (normally) a level of support (tweaks to fit/ tuning) post purchase. The downside, of course, is that costs are generally higher.

Re: the LOOK, I see some disadvantages. First off, because of the way CF can fail, I'm one of the folks that doesn't believe in buying used CF bikes. Warranties aren't transferable, and at this stage the bike is ~10 years old, so given the cost, you have to decide if it's worth the risk if it were to fail. Obviously you wouldn't be out the total cost because (for the most part) the components could be swapped to another frame, but repair wouldn't be an option.

And speaking of the components, while older DA was very durable, nothing lasts forever. So if you were to encounter a problem with (as an example) the shifters, a one for one replacement would cost more than the bike was worth. The alternative (downgrading to Tiagra or similar) kind of negates the reason to buy this bike over the Trek to begin with. Of course, this scenario is hypothetical, but given the age of the bike, you can be fairly confident that the level of care/ maintenance will be higher than a new bike.

Re: the LOOK's geo, I think Chris touched on one of the disadvantages to it. That being, a slacker seat tube angle. If you know you're proportioned longer femurs, the bike might suite you, otherwise a no setback post might be needed. While this isn't a showstopper and many employ them, I'm of the mind that it's an unnecessary compromise, altering the riders f/r weight distribution on the bike. While it might not be to a degree that affects handling, it's likely that it wouldn't be necessary on a bike with a somewhat steeper STA, resulting in better overall fit.

If you're interested in the LOOK and other used bikes, I suggest bringing someone along that's knowledgeable in fit and the mechanics of bikes. Dealing with LBS's is a big plus because you'll get some level of assistance and maybe even a 30 day warranty, but I'd still avoid used CF.

Also, as always, the bottom line is test ride before deciding.


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## MikeS123

Thanks everyone for the advice. I plan on test riding it today just for the fun of it to see what a carbon bike feels compared to an aluminum one. My nearest LBS where I tested the Trek offered a year service which included adjustments and one tune up and obviously there is the warranty. So that might be the route to go. I have never worked on a bike before, but I do work on my cars, pulled the transmission on my old Audi S4 and I do all the work on my supercharged M3 so I'm fairly mechanically inclined, but I would still have to learn the procedures for working on a bike.

This bike shop also carries Felt and the have 2011 Z100 for $750. I will check it out to. Anyone have experience how it compares to the Trek 1.1?


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## PJ352

MikeS123 said:


> Thanks everyone for the advice. I plan on test riding it today just for the fun of it to see what a carbon bike feels compared to an aluminum one. My nearest LBS where I tested the Trek offered a year service which included adjustments and one tune up and obviously there is the warranty. So that might be the route to go. I have never worked on a bike before, but I do work on my cars, pulled the transmission on my old Audi S4 and I do all the work on my supercharged M3 so I'm fairly mechanically inclined, but I would still have to learn the procedures for working on a bike.
> 
> *This bike shop also carries Felt and the have 2011 Z100 for $750. I will check it out to. Anyone have experience how it compares to the Trek 1.1?*


I have no firsthand experience with that specific Felt model, but (generally speaking) Felt is a quality brand with a strong warranty. 

On paper, the Z100 has (what I see as) some distinct advantages over the Trek. Most notable are a CF/ alu fork as opposed to Treks straight aluminum. The Microshift shifters allow upshifts from the drops where that would be difficult on the 2300's on the Trek. Also, FWIW, the Felt runs a 9 speed drivetrain versus the Trek's 8. Crankset differences are pretty much a wash (IMO) with the Felt using a triple and the Trek, a compact. When coupled with the rear gearing, the Felt has a wider range - both higher and lower. 

Tempering those comments, it should be noted that although entry level, Shimano's 2300 group is durable and (when set up correctly) performs well and Microshift shifters aren't universally loved, so something to keep in mind during your test rides.

The geometry of the bikes is close enough in key measurements (HTL, STA, HTA and ETT) that I think if you fit well on the 54 Trek, you'll also take a 54 in the Felt. The latter has a slightly more relaxed geometry which translates into slightly more predictable (less twitchy) steering/ handling that you might prefer given your MTB'ing experience.


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## AndrwSwitch

Until you hit the really high-end bikes, they're usually very comparable at each pricepoint.

The Z100 has Microshift shifters, which are generally poorly-regarded. But, you get a carbon fork. Honestly, I think people are way too hung up on carbon forks - I've got a few bikes, and until recently, two of my three road bikes had steel forks, one straight-blade. Tire pressure makes a much bigger difference in ride quality. The 2300 shifters on the 1.1 aren't very well-regarded either, but I test rode a bike with them not too long ago and they worked great. I think that a lot of people's complaints about poor shifter performance go to either poor installation, bad cable housings, or the riders' inability to maintain the function of the bike as the housings and cables break in.

I wouldn't be too stressed about the poor availability of 9-speed Dura Ace components. They're new enough to be cross-compatible with the other Shimano groups. So, if you kill the shifters, get a new set that fit your budget. If you get 10-speed shifters, you also need a 10-speed cassette, but as long as the derailleurs are in decent shape, you can keep them. I did a similar swap myself a couple years ago, going from 9-speed 105 shifters to 10-speed Ultegra, and I got another few seasons out of the rear derailleur before replacing it this season. You might offend someone who loves bikes more than riding them, but who cares.

Here's an article on Dura-Ace compatibility. Historically, it has sometimes been a problematic group to mix and match.

Shimano Dura-Ace Compatibility

If you kill the frame, the compatibility problems are bigger. High end frames lately have been shuffling up the standards for how some of the components attach to them, so you might find yourself having to replace a few pieces to do a build. Actually something else I was thinking about this summer, and decided against, because I have a nice old 105 crank and to install it on the frame I had a good price on would have required a permanent modification to the frame making it incompatible with any future crank that fit a newer standard. I'd just as soon not have to detune a new frame to make it work. Also, I'm a little attached to that bike.


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## MikeS123

Well I went to the bike shop today to take a look at Felt and the used Look. I honestly thought being a newbie I would not be able to tell that much of a difference, but WOW, it really did ride well, I was amazed how much softer it was when it hit bumps or the road surface was rough. And the shifters were a much easier to use than the Trek. Brakes amazed me as well.

I rode the Felt too, and I could tell a little more compliant ride than the Trek due to the Carbon fork, but I really did not like the way you operated the shifters. It seemed more complicated to me.

I am very tempted by the Look, but my biggest concern is no warranty (as mentioned), and they do not provide a fitting service (well they do for $125). Also, it needs new tires so I have to factor that cost as well. At that price point they also have Felt F85 brand new ($1050) which has a carbon fork and seatpost, Shimano 105/Microshift drivetrain, and a compact crank. Way more than I planned on spinning, so not sure if I want to go this route. If I buy new, I get a warranty, free fitting, and one tune up for free.

Also, since it has been so long since I have ridden, I noticed on all the bikes I rode the saddle was very uncomfortable. Granted, I was in jeans when I rode the Trek, and just work out pants when I rode the other two. Do bicycle shorts make a huge difference?


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## MikeS123

Pics of the LOOK.


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## PJ352

MikeS123 said:


> Well I went to the bike shop today to take a look at Felt and the used Look. I honestly thought being a newbie I would not be able to tell that much of a difference, but WOW, it really did ride well, I was amazed how much softer it was when it hit bumps or the road surface was rough. And the shifters were a much easier to use than the Trek. Brakes amazed me as well.
> 
> I rode the Felt too, and I could tell a little more compliant ride than the Trek due to the Carbon fork, but I really did not like the way you operated the shifters. It seemed more complicated to me.
> 
> I am very tempted by the Look, but my biggest concern is no warranty (as mentioned), and they do not provide a fitting service (well they do for $125). Also, it needs new tires so I have to factor that cost as well. At that price point they also have Felt F85 brand new ($1050) which has a carbon fork and seatpost, Shimano 105/Microshift drivetrain, and a compact crank. Way more than I planned on spinning, so not sure if I want to go this route. If I buy new, I get a warranty, free fitting, and one tune up for free.
> 
> Also, since it has been so long since I have ridden, I noticed on all the bikes I rode the saddle was very uncomfortable. Granted, I was in jeans when I rode the Trek, and just work out pants when I rode the other two. Do bicycle shorts make a huge difference?


If the LOOK is the bike that fits and feels right to you, pursue it. But while doing so, safeguard your interests to the extent possible. By that I mean, communicate your interest (and concerns) to the owner/ manager and ask if they would include a 30 day warranty, new tires and a standard bike fit for the asking price. I go on the premise that if you don't ask, you don't get, so start the negotiations at that point. This, of course, assumes you're ok with the 30 day warranty (and they'll agree), but if they won't it's probably because they too aren't willing to take the risk.

Re: the F85, unless you like that bike better than the LOOK, given this is your first road bike in awhile, I don't think you should stretch your budget any further. Also, the 'F' series is Felt's race bike with requisite race geo - tight wheelbase, short head tubes and quick handling. Depending on your personal preferences, fitness/ flexibility, style of riding, you may find it overly 'aggressive'.

For a first road bike and generally speaking, I think the Trek or Felt 'Z' series are better choices, but (and this may be your best option) you may want to branch out some, visit some other shops and test ride more makes/ models. I know you're now focused on the LOOK, but there are other nice bikes out there. :yesnod: 

Lastly, yes cycling shorts make that much of a difference. That's not to say that you won't go through a period of acclimation to road riding, or that some saddles might suite you better than others, but don't judge comfort from one test ride in street clothes.


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## MikeS123

Thanks guys, I really appreciate the feedback. I will continue my search after Christmas.

A lot to learn here, and that is all I need is another hobby.  At least this one will get me fit. 

Here is my primary passion:


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## PJ352

Very nice. That used to be my primary passion as well (had four RX-7's, including a '90 Turbo). Now it's cycling (a_ lot_ cheaper). 

Good luck when you restart your bike search!


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## jpaschal01

I love my Felt. Picked it over a Trek. I got a Z85 which is a little more relaxed geometry compared to the F series Felt. The finish on the Felt aluminum frame compared to the Trek also impressed me. Weld points were not clunky like the Treks.


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## MikeS123

Actually, now that I went back and looked at it, it was the Z85 they have listed for $1050 Felt Bicycles Z85 - R.B.'s Cyclery - Nashville & Memphis, TN.

I will try and go for a test ride next week. That is really pushing my budget though and I still have to buy a helmet, shorts, etc...


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## PJ352

MikeS123 said:


> Actually, now that I went back and looked at it, it was the Z85 they have listed for $1050 Felt Bicycles Z85 - R.B.'s Cyclery - Nashville & Memphis, TN.
> 
> I will try and go for a test ride next week. That is really pushing my budget though and I still have to buy a helmet, shorts, etc...


Looking back to your OP, all you're looking to do is build cardio, which is basically fitness riding. In that case, any of the bikes you're considering will likely suite you, but as you know, as you spend more, you tend to get more. Re: the Z85, you move up to Shimano 105 which given the trickle down/ refinements over the years, IMO trumps the ~10 year old DA on the LOOK. Still, only you can decide if the total package warrants stretching your budget. 

That said, given the specs on the Z85 and the price you're being quoted, I think you'll be hard pressed to find a better bike with LBS services included. But specs and price aren't everything, so before committing to the purchase I suggest test riding (probably a 54cm) out on the roads and for some duration. If possible, do a back to back comparison with the Z100 and if it's still in contention, the Trek.

Lastly, if a bike purchase is imminent, you might want to spring for a pair of moderately priced cycling shorts, to avoid some discomfort during those test rides.


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## Chris-X

PJ352 said:


> Looking back to your OP, all you're looking to do is build cardio, which is basically fitness riding. In that case, any of the bikes you're considering will likely suite you, but as you know, as you spend more, you tend to get more. Re: the Z85, you move up to Shimano 105 which given the trickle down/ refinements over the years, IMO trumps the ~10 year old DA on the LOOK. Still, only you can decide if the total package warrants stretching your budget.
> 
> That said, given the specs on the Z85 and the price you're being quoted, I think you'll be hard pressed to find a better bike with LBS services included. But specs and price aren't everything, so before committing to the purchase I suggest test riding (probably a 54cm) out on the roads and for some duration. If possible, do a back to back comparison with the Z100 and if it's still in contention, the Trek.
> 
> Lastly, if a bike purchase is imminent, you might want to spring for a pair of moderately priced cycling shorts, to avoid some discomfort during those test rides.


I just rode my kg381 after not riding it for almost a year. (I have an SWORKS Roubaix with open pro's where I live, and the kg381 is at my parents who I'm visiting)

Let me tell you, the kg 381 is amazing. Much less stiff at the bottom bracket than the 
Roubaix but the ride is so supple it's unbelievable. 

I can't imagine the ride quality of the other bikes you are looking at comes close to the Look as I would say the Look compares well to the S Works SL2....

If the Look fits, I personally would get it.


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## MikeS123

So my Dad and I went back today and we ended up buying the Z85 for me and the F85 for him. . He actually paid half for the bike and bought a pump and helmet too as a Christmas present. I really like the bike but the saddle is a little uncomfortable. I actually had them switch the saddle from a 2012 free of charge which had a little more padding. Mine ended up being $950 and his was $850.

Now I just need a pair of bicycle shorts and I should be good to go. Oh, I want a rear view mirror too, anyone have suggestions on what kind to get?

Will post pics tomorrow.


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## PJ352

MikeS123 said:


> So my Dad and I went back today and we ended up buying the Z85 for me and the F85 for him. . He actually paid half for the bike and bought a pump and helmet too as a Christmas present. I really like the bike but the saddle is a little uncomfortable. I actually had them switch the saddle from a 2012 free of charge which had a little more padding. Mine ended up being $950 and his was $850.
> 
> Now I just need a pair of bicycle shorts and I should be good to go. Oh, I want a rear view mirror too, anyone have suggestions on what kind to get?
> 
> Will post pics tomorrow.


Congrats on the new bike, but remember, pics are required here. And kudo's to your dad for kicking in for the bike and accessories! :thumbsup:

Good thought re: the mirror. Some like helmet mirrors, some like bar mirrors. I've used both and once accustomed to it, prefer the helmet mirror.
Blackburn Helmet Mirror at WesternBikeworks

Cycle Aware Reflex Helmet Mirror at WesternBikeworks


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## MikeS123

Went to Dick's today and bought some gloves, a couple pair of cycling shorts, a long sleve shirt, and a rear light. Took it out for a 7 3/4 mile run and it did great. My butt and lower back were a little sore towards the end but the soreness did not last long after I got off the bike. I'm guessing I just need to build up to it. It took my right at 40 mins, kinda slow, but I am sure I will get faster. 

And you asked for pics: :smilewinkgrin:









































































2012 Saddle













































Hope the M3 doesn't get jealous.


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## PJ352

Nice looking bike.. thanks for sharing! I generally like darker colored bikes, and the matte finish adds a nice touch.

Good idea opting for gloves. They'll provide some cushioning from road buzz and a level of protection as well.

You're going to go through a period of acclimation to road riding/ the riding position, so allow yourself some (saddle) time for that. In the meantime, try to keep your upper torso relaxed, arms slightly bent, and a slightly loose grip on the bars, changing hand position periodically (tops, hoods, drops...) Doing so will change your position slightly and should help stave off the lower back discomfort. 

Re: the butt soreness, periodically lift off the saddle (coast, sprint out of the saddle) - it doesn't take much (or long) to relieve the pressure during rides. 

Once you gain some confidence to ride no handed, there are some on-bike exercises/stretches you can do to keep yourself limber, but not just yet.  

.


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