# Windsor Fen



## talusmonkey

Thinking of pulling the trigger on this bike.
http://cgi.ebay.com/NEW-ALUMINUM-CA...0|66:2|65:12|39:1|240:1309|301:1|293:1|294:50

I know its not name brand but I cant seem to touch anything under 900 for something like this. Any comments good or bad would be appreciated . I also may have an opportunity to purchase used 2008 Trek 1.2 for the same price. waiting to here on that. Would the Trek frame be that much better than the Windsor?


----------



## My Own Private Idaho

talusmonkey said:


> Thinking of pulling the trigger on this bike.
> http://cgi.ebay.com/NEW-ALUMINUM-CA...0|66:2|65:12|39:1|240:1309|301:1|293:1|294:50
> 
> I know its not name brand but I cant seem to touch anything under 900 for something like this. Any comments good or bad would be appreciated . I also may have an opportunity to purchase used 2008 Trek 1.2 for the same price. waiting to here on that. Would the Trek frame be that much better than the Windsor?



If you can get the Trek, do it. That, at least, you can test ride. Unless you are sure on your sizing, and what you need, buying a bike on the internet is not a good idea. I'm assuming you are new, since you are posting in the beginner forum. That being the case, you really should ride the bike a few miles before you buy.


----------



## Creakyknees

the Windsor / bikesdirect bikes are good deals, just be advised that before assembling it you should take it to a good mechanic to have ALL of the parts / bearings / adjustments regreased and correctly adjusted. They have a reputation for being poorly assembled. But, even after paying maybe $150 for that checkup/tuneup, you might still come out ahead. 

and +1, make sure the darn thing fits you before you buy it.


----------



## Alaska Mike

I don't know your background, fitness, or your intended use, but I'll make a few assumptions and provide my .02. Since you're not talking about buying from a LBS, and instead are looking used or online, similar principals apply for the new rider.

Let's talk about the bikes themselves:

That Trek is no great deal. I think you could buy it for $750 new, depending on the bike store. The components aren't anything to write home about. The frame is your typical entry-level asian-made aluminum deal, although Trek designed it and has some fairly good quality control. Not light by any means, but not as heavy as a Walmart bike. It is what it is- an entry-level bike. You're buying the name brand and the image of a Trek, but not the same performance as Lance. For a used bike of that level, it's too much money.

The 2009 Fens  is a pretty good deal, all things considered. Again, an asian-made, aluminum frame bike. The 105 drivetrain is pretty much all you'll ever need. The Tektro brakes are pretty marginal, but a brake pad upgrade helps a bit. The wheelset might need upgrade eventually, depending on your weight, riding style, and street conditions, but should be serviceable. It's a solid package for the price. 

There's a few online distributors of this "brand", the best-known is probably BikesDirect. The only real difference between a Motobecane, Mercier, or Windsor is the sticker. The manufacturer bought the name of an established bike company and put it on a frame designed for a company like Fuji (or whatever). They do little or no R&D and rely on designs of other brands, usually a recently discontinued model. They usually put pretty good groupsets on the bikes, although they often scrimp on the wheels or other components- just like everyone else.

As for fit, the manufacturer's recommendations are a decent way to get a rough idea. From there, you need to either go to a LBS and get a professional fitting done (where they tell you what size frame and geometry would best suit you) or use one of the online calculators/guides. This will get you closer to a good initial fit. Do this before you spend your money on _any_ bike. A poorly-fit bike will negatively affect your enjoyment of the sport and can cause injury. It's worth the time and money. This is the main reason everyone says to buy from your local bike store (LBS). I've found the attention and care most shops give you for an entry level bike can be minimal, and levels of fitting vary greatly. Like with everything, an informed buyer will come out ahead.

If you aren't comfortable wrenching on and adjusting a bike, you'll need to take it to a LBS for adjustment and/or assembly. It isn't rocket science, but don't take chances with your safety and health. This expense needs to be factored into your budget.

In the interest of full disclosure:

I should admit right up front that I have bought from an online seller. I bought a Mercier Serpens a few years back from SportyMama off of eBay. Other than a seat and a good wheelset (Neuvation M28 Aeros), it's the same as I bought it. I've put in excess of 5000 miles on it as my commuter/touring/whatever bike, and I will likely ride it for years to come. I've since bought sexier, carbon-framed bikes that are lighter, faster, and a blast to ride, but the Mercier is still the workhorse in the stable. Bang for the buck, it's been one of the best purchases I've made.

Whatever you get, ride it as much as you can. The financial part of the investment is the smallest part. Miles are where you really see a return.


----------



## talusmonkey

My Own Private Idaho said:


> If you can get the Trek, do it. That, at least, you can test ride. Unless you are sure on your sizing, and what you need, buying a bike on the internet is not a good idea. I'm assuming you are new, since you are posting in the beginner forum. That being the case, you really should ride the bike a few miles before you buy.


Not new to bikes just new to road bikes. I will be able to do all the adjustments needed myself. My biggest problem is deciding between a 58cm and a 56cm. I am 99% sure a 
58. I would love to pull the trigger a Specialized or Trek but I dont really have the 900.00.


----------



## My Own Private Idaho

talusmonkey said:


> Not new to bikes just new to road bikes. I will be able to do all the adjustments needed myself. My biggest problem is deciding between a 58cm and a 56cm. I am 99% sure a
> 58. I would love to pull the trigger a Specialized or Trek but I don't really have the 900.00.



Go to about 10 different bike shops, even if you have to drive a bit. Don't judge them from the outside. If you are familiar with mountain bikes, you know that the most knowledgeable people are sometimes in the "rat-hole" bike shops. Talk to the owner, and find someone you are comfortable with. Then let them help you. Don't take their word as gospel, but listen, and try some bikes. Let the owner know what you are trying to do, and what kind of bike you are looking for. You should be able to find someone who can help steer you in the right direction.

Good luck.

I own bikes that I bought off the Internet. But the first bike I bought that way was a huge mistake. Now, I would do it differently.


----------



## zigurate

My Own Private Idaho said:


> Go to about 10 different bike shops, even if you have to drive a bit. Don't judge them from the outside. If you are familiar with mountain bikes, you know that the most knowledgeable people are sometimes in the "rat-hole" bike shops. Talk to the owner, and find someone you are comfortable with. Then let them help you. Don't take their word as gospel, but listen, and try some bikes. Let the owner know what you are trying to do, and what kind of bike you are looking for. You should be able to find someone who can help steer you in the right direction.


This is good advice, they're usually good people but they may try to sell you something, just listen, don't take anything for granted and make up your own mind (if you're going to lbs).


----------



## bikesdirect

Creakyknees said:


> the Windsor / bikesdirect bikes are good deals, just be advised that before assembling it you should take it to a good mechanic to have ALL of the parts / bearings / adjustments regreased and correctly adjusted. They have a reputation for being poorly assembled. But, even after paying maybe $150 for that checkup/tuneup, you might still come out ahead.
> 
> and +1, make sure the darn thing fits you before you buy it.



I really need to comment on this:
Our bikes are built in the exact same factories that build bikes for the brands you see in bike shops. Factory QC on our bikes are exactly the same as any other brand. The assembly of the bikes [ours and everyone elses] is very good out of the box.

Most shops in the USA take new bikes out of the box, spend 20 minutes setting them up and put them on the floor and sell them. These bikes work great for years.

Most our customers take new bikes out of the box and spend 40 min to 1 hour setting them up. These bikes work great for years.

Having a shop set up a bike and adjust it is worth about $50. [for 30 minutes work]
Spending $150 for this service would be INSANE. Any shop that would charge that is just ripping off customers and does not deserve your business.

My shops charge $40 for and out of the box setup and tune.

BTW - my experience is buyers on-line are more likely to get a good fit on bike size than those that buy in shops [think about it and you will know why]


----------



## rogerstg

Creakyknees said:


> They have a reputation for being poorly assembled.


Not by me they don't. After 4 BD bikes, that has not been my experience at all. Aside from some der adjustments and slight wheel truing there was not much to be done. Everything was as good as or better than what I've seen go out the door of an LBS. And I know, because I take everything apart to make sure it's properly greased and torqued.


----------



## rockee712

I am going to pull the trigger on a Windsor Fens this weekend(52cm) from bikesdirect. I ride a vintage centurion ironman (55cm) and I have been riding it for almost 4 years now. I know I need a shorter bike, that 55cm has been bothering me for a while now.. paid $100 for that centurion so I guess I can't complain.

I have visited over a dozen bike shops in the SF area and I have looked over many bikes and components and that Fens blows away almost all the bikes I have seen in components to price. The Fens frame is all that concerns me for quality, but even if the frame ends up being a bust, I can get a new frame and still be under what a lot of the LBS wanted for a bike with 105 components. My LBS in San Mateo closed down... been going to that guy for more then 4 years and these other LBS just don't give me that same feeling.. I guess that's what makes me more open to an online purchase. Also some of the LBS just shot me down personally when I mentioned an online purchase. Saying things along the lines of "you would be a fool to buy online", but some were very honest and gave me benefits and disadvantages. One shop even said you "need" to spend at least a $1000 or the parts will be breaking on you. Total rubbish. I have been cycling for years, I know what I need, I know the quality of parts and I know a good deal, so for some of those shops to be so closed minded was a turn off and the nail in the coffin for getting a sale or service repairs from me. I will eventually find a LBS I like... hopefully soon.

I plan to get the Fens assembled at Avenue Cyclery, who were kind enough to actually ask about my needs and budget rather then try to upsell me or try to outwit my cycling knowledge with biking terminology... I hate it when sales people try to make things more complicated then they are. They do a box assemble and tuning for $70. I know a decent amount about bike maintenance, but I want the first assembly and tuning to be done by someone way more experienced since I am not familiar with tuning 105 parts since all my bikes have had Sora.

So talusmonkey, I will let you know how things go and how the Fens does. I wonder if BD can ship faster... I hate waiting!


----------



## george costanza

rockee, i'd love to know how that goes. a friend of mine is going to be purchasing his first road bike w/ his state tax return and when i saw the deal on the fens, i couldn't find any better.

i'd like to know how that LBS search goes as well since i live on the peninsula. i've been to summit bicycles in millbrae a time or two for some adjustments and they didn't give me **** about my motobecane MTB. they're quick and get the job done right.


----------



## kermit

*Happy with BikesDirect*

I got silly and bought a single speed (Windsor Clockwork) from them. I have a high end carbon hotness and just wanted a fun toy to play with. The bike came in perfectly packaged. I took the thing out was able to assemble but found a paint chip on the front dropout. No big deal but I e-mailed customer service. I wasn't planning on making a stink for a $300 bike, but wanted to let them know what I found. After about 10 e-mails from customer service making sure I didn't want a new bike they told me that UPS probably dropped the bike box flat and thats how the paint chipped. I took the bike to my LBS for brake adjustments and wheel truing. It's awesome. The comments you might get from a LBS are no big deal (I didn't get any cuz they got my business) and I would definitely do business with BD again. You can't beat the prices if you know what you need!


----------



## tihsepa

My experience with BD was a good one. My wife bought her SS from them and aside from wheel truing and putting it together it is a nice bike and she loves it.


----------



## rockee712

george costanza said:


> rockee, i'd love to know how that goes. a friend of mine is going to be purchasing his first road bike w/ his state tax return and when i saw the deal on the fens, i couldn't find any better.
> 
> i'd like to know how that LBS search goes as well since i live on the peninsula. i've been to summit bicycles in millbrae a time or two for some adjustments and they didn't give me **** about my motobecane MTB. they're quick and get the job done right.


Yeah summit was on the list of shops to visit next week and mikes bikes. I actually went to Sport Basement and Performance Bike and got some really great help. Jeff at Sport Basement is an awesome guy if you want to talk bike maintenance/parts. I will let you know how things go.


----------



## tihsepa

A guy at work just got a Windsor Fen today. I dont think its a bad bike for entry level. It didnt need much setup and will probably last just fine. I wouldnt pass it up for the price. I think he got it for around 500. Id dosent have any of the Shimano 4400 parts though. I think it was Tiagra with a 105 RD.


----------



## talusmonkey

A from Il said:


> A guy at work just got a Windsor Fen today. I dont think its a bad bike for entry level. It didnt need much setup and will probably last just fine. I wouldnt pass it up for the price. I think he got it for around 500. Id dosent have any of the Shimano 4400 parts though. I think it was Tiagra with a 105 RD.




I thought 4400 was Tiagra


----------



## talusmonkey

I looked at a Specialized Allez today. I really liked it. But I dont know if I want to spend 300 dollars more.


----------



## talusmonkey

If I go with the Fens is it worth the extra 140.00 to buy this one from BD http://www.bikesdirect.com/products/windsor/fens_IX.htm

Or this one from ebay (I assume still BD) for 140 less 

http://cgi.ebay.com/NEW-ALUMINUM-CAR...3A1|294:50

I am really leaning towards the windsor at the moment. Its just coming down to pure price.

Though I am worried about getting a 58 or 56


----------



## kermit

Definitely get sized before you buy the bike. You will never get the fit right with the wrong size. If you find yourself in between 56-58, go for the 58 and get a smaller stem when you get fitted. Post pictures!


----------



## tihsepa

talusmonkey said:


> I thought 4400 was Tiagra


You could be right. I dont know. Just too lazy to research it. ut:


----------



## talusmonkey

kermit said:


> Definitely get sized before you buy the bike. You will never get the fit right with the wrong size. If you find yourself in between 56-58, go for the 58 and get a smaller stem when you get fitted. Post pictures!


One dealer sized me for a 54. Another dealer sized me for a 56 to 58 saying the 58 would be better. I thought the first guy was smoking crack when he said 54 but what do I know.


----------



## talusmonkey

I have been to 5 dealers with two of them sizing me in a 58. One in a 54. The others I did not ask. Two of the sales people told me that I really cant go wrong with the online bikes and gave the pros and cons to buy at a LBS or online. Very upfront guys. Im starting to lean towards the BD bike for 695.00 with all 105 components. any other info from you guys would be great.

Thanks
Sam


----------



## Dave Hickey

talusmonkey said:


> I have been to 5 dealers with two of them sizing me in a 58. One in a 54. The others I did not ask. Two of the sales people told me that I really cant go wrong with the online bikes and gave the pros and cons to buy at a LBS or online. Very upfront guys. Im starting to lean towards the BD bike for 695.00 with all 105 components. any other info from you guys would be great.
> 
> Thanks
> Sam


Sizing you in a 58 what? One 54 bike might be the same size as anothers 58.....Treks are measured from the center of the bottom bracket to the top of the seat collar(non-seat mast design) while many others are from the center of the BB to the center of the top tube..

Most of my bikes are 51cm when measured center of the BB to center of the top tube..In a Trek, I'd ride a 54cm...Both the Trek and my others bikes are the same size.

The brand of bike makes a huge different in sizing..

I'm not trying to talk you out of a BD bike but you need to get properly sized..


----------



## Alaska Mike

A lot of the sizing difference can be attributed to how the seat tube is measured and different riding styles/body types. The fitting calculator at Competitive Cyclist explains this.

I think the 2009 Fens (all 105) is a better deal than the 2008 Fens (105/Tiagra) in the long run. 105 is certainly a leap in performance/reliability from Tiagra.


----------



## rockee712

talusmonkey said:


> I have been to 5 dealers with two of them sizing me in a 58. One in a 54. The others I did not ask. Two of the sales people told me that I really cant go wrong with the online bikes and gave the pros and cons to buy at a LBS or online. Very upfront guys. Im starting to lean towards the BD bike for 695.00 with all 105 components. any other info from you guys would be great.
> 
> Thanks
> Sam



Yeah, the ebay deal you were looking at earlier was good, but I just made my payment for the Fens on BD with all 105. And sizing is different with every manufacturer, for example on a Fuji Newest I tried out, I fit the 46cm, but on most other bikes I feel comfortable on a 50-52cm. Not that I recommend it, but for me, I find standover height to be the easiest way to find a good fitting bike. Before I visited a store to try a bike I have been looking at manufacturer websites and fit charts to see what size frame I think I would fit. Usually the size I pick out online is the size I end up liking in store.


----------



## rockee712

So I finally got that Fens today. Friday they lost the package and found it the same day so I had to wait the weekend before it was delivered.

Overall just riding the bike around the block it's a solid bike. The 105 parts as expected are top notch and the feel of the bike is good. I just need to get the seat and stem adjustments right then I will be set. The color of the frame is rather ugly imo. I thought it would have been a darker blue, but it is really "vibrant" blue. Ill live with it, but darker would have been perfect.

The pedals it came with aren't bad, but I have crank bro quattros and will be slapping those on later. Assembly of the bike was a breeze, attach stem, attach seat, attach wheel and attach pedals. The FD needs to be adjusted, that is for sure, so I will have to tackle that problem before hitting a long trail.

Would I recommend this bike to a friend? For the price, without at doubt, as long as being the bright blue bike on the street doesn't bother you haha.


----------



## kermit

*Awesome!*

Now ride it like you stole it! I like the blue!


----------



## Kmccleary9

Any updates? Looking at the Fens...


----------



## Lakemichchip

The Fens is a great deal. My wife has a 2008 Windsor Wellington 3 and has been very happy with it. She has put about 800 miles on it over the last year. We upgraded the wheels and tires to Mavic and Continental Gatorskins.

I almost pulled the trigger on the Fens, but the LBS had a great deal on a TREK with full Ultegra that I could not pass up.

Let us know how the bike works for you!


----------



## beakon20

So far a great bike. I have had mine for about 3 weeks so far and have around 150 miles on the bike. Some adjustments required along the way as expected, but I think it is a great bike for what you get.


----------



## rockee712

So far, been worth every penny. I don't know how many miles I have put on it, but it's been flawless. The blue took a while to grow on me, but otherwise I wouldn't think twice about buying the fens again.


----------



## dan0matic

Those of you who have the Windsor Fens, how tall are you and what size bike did you get?


----------



## beakon20

I'm 6' and went with the 58. The LBS I had been to before Ibuying the Fens had been sizing me for 58s and 60s on in store models. I think a 60 size in the Fens would have been too big. The 58 has been very comfortable, although I think it's time for a new seat.


----------



## mega56

my girlfriend is looking for a road bike i went through all the road bikes on BD.com and found that the windsor fens is the best deal. 

she was fitted at 3 LBS and was told that a 50-52cm bike would fit her. She's 5'4 (inseam 79.5cm or 31.3"). Looks like the 50cm would fit her the best with a standover of 29.5"? 

she tried on the Norco CRD2 (small) and i have all the dimensions for that bike. Does anyone have the full geometry chart for the Fens? the one on BD.com doesn't have the full spec. I would like a full comparison.

thanks and keep those BD stories and pictures coming.


----------



## beakon20

You could try here, although I don't what windsor bike this chart is for.

http://www.windsorbicycles.com/sizing.htm

I went with the 58, LBS sized me in 60s and 58s and even one down in a 54. The 58 worked out great. I thought I read somewhere this model fits close to a Trek if you can compare to that, although I might be confusing that with another model.

Send them a message, they might be able to help with the sizing.


----------



## mega56

Just when we're close to buying the bike, the 50cm is sold out at checkout time. It was in stock the night before!


----------



## gulchgoer

I bought a 2009 Windsor Fens from BD a few weeks ago, actually two, since the first one was too small. BD met my expectations - they shipped promptly, the bike arrived in new condition, and they were responsive to email. Only negative was the cheapie wheels were (dangerously?) out of true, but I trued them, and will upgrade soon. The frame won't win any beauty pagents with its ugly tube welds, but it's a very rideable machine. I love the 105 shifting - sometimes it's so smooth I don't even realize it shifted. Brakes are fine. This is my first triple crank, not sure I like it, the two smaller chainrings both feel "too small", but not a big deal. Was a little surprised some of the rings around the seatpost and headset, for example, were plastic, but maybe that's ok. A word of warning: take the bike to your LBS for assembly unless you really know what you're doing. I thought putting the bike together was a breeze, however on my first ride the bearings started to break out of the headset! My LBS said the bearings needed to be held in the headset just right when the screws were tightened, or the headset would be ruined. Not something you'd ever know.


----------



## PJ352

gulchgoer said:


> I bought a 2009 Windsor Fens from BD a few weeks ago, actually two, since the first one was too small. BD met my expectations - they shipped promptly, the bike arrived in new condition, and they were responsive to email. *Only negative *was the cheapie wheels were (dangerously?) out of true, but I trued them, and will upgrade soon. The frame won't win any beauty pagents with its ugly tube welds, but it's a very rideable machine. I love the 105 shifting - sometimes it's so smooth I don't even realize it shifted. Brakes are fine. This is my first triple crank, not sure I like it, the two smaller chainrings both feel "too small", but not a big deal. Was a little surprised some of the rings around the seatpost and headset, for example, were plastic, but maybe that's ok. A word of warning: take the bike to your LBS for assembly unless you really know what you're doing. I thought putting the bike together was a breeze, however on my first ride the bearings started to break out of the headset! My LBS said the bearings needed to be held in the headset just right when the screws were tightened, or the headset would be ruined. Not something you'd ever know.


*Only negative?* Seems you went on to mention a few others.  I'm glad it all worked out for you, but IMO your post serves to illustrate the many reasons NOT to buy bikes online!!


----------

