# Colnago Extreme C



## aspjr (Oct 25, 2006)

I live in Brasil and last year purchased an Extreme C in a shop called La Gazelle in Paris/France. Below a copy of a msg sent to Colnago that I would like to share:

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As a cyclist for almost 30 years having had a number of frames from various manufacturers and materials I must say that my first experience owning a Colnago frame with the Extreme C was one that left mixed feelings and a valuable experience. During the period of 10,000 km and eleven months with the frame I’ve enjoyed a pleasure that I’ve never experienced on riding other frames. My enthusiasm was so great that three close friends decided to switch to Colnago. 

The great frustration started when after such a short period of usage with the great care that I have always exercised with my bikes, I did hit a medium size pothole that did not even change the wheel alignment. Surprisingly during my after ride check I saw two cracks that appeared on the frame. Following the instructions on the Worldwide Colnago Warranty I’ve tried to contact the shop in Paris (La Gazelle) that sold the frame. Only one very vague response was received even after many weeks of continuous tentative contacts. The situation gets aggravated by the fact that I’ve spent more than E$11,000 (two frames plus accessories) over two visits to the shop!!! Lastly it was with great disappointment that I’ve learned Colnago’s official position that my only options are to either ship the frame from Brasil to Paris to a vendor that has been completely ignoring me or to Colnago where an estimate could be done for a potential out of warranty repair.

Colnago’s website opens with the below sentence signed by Ernesto Colnago:

“Quality Is The Soul Of Our Product”

My experience has shown that in practical terms I did not experience true quality from Colnago as follows:

.The terrible after sales service of one of the authorized retailers in Paris/France. 
.The poor frame durability under normal usage conditions and no crash. 
.The factory lack of concern and trust on their customers that pay a large amount of money expecting a high standard product and service 

The above facts lead me to believe that quality is not the soul of Colnago products. 

Today I regret having bought one frame and recommend some other close friends to do so. Now I would actually recommend them to stop riding and sell the frame as fast as possible before the potential problems and frustrations that I had happen with them.

Through my contacts with the bicycle industry in Brasil and international bicycle magazines I would also try to share my experience so others make a better informed decision before they buy a product that is high end only on the selling price.
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## steel515 (Sep 6, 2004)

*colnago*

Do you have pictures you can share with us?


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## aspjr (Oct 25, 2006)

Attached a shot from the top/head tube lug (at the top tube)


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## fabsroman (Jul 14, 2006)

That doesn't look good. I wish a rep from Colnago would patrol this forum so that we could get the "company's" viewpoint on this stuff. I just bought a Cristallo and am waiting on a 2007 Record groupo to arrive so that I can start building the bike. I hope I don't have any problems with my frame like you have had with yours.

With my steel frame, I hit a pothole once at around 50 mph while drafting a truck. The result was my face hitting the stem, both water bottles flying out of their cages, two flat tires, and two broken rims. Nothing happened to the frame and I am still riding it over 10 years later.


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## Clevor (Sep 8, 2005)

There have been posts on other forums about the Extreme-Cs cracking at the lug junction due to the shorter lugs to save weight. That picture certainly reinforces this notion.

I just picked up a C50, and I've often wondered if some pro puts out brutal watts on a sprint, cracks may arise in the BB junction around the lugs. Or perhaps after putting on many miles on the frame. Not necessarily cracks, but perhaps movement of the tube in relation to the lug. Has anyone had this experience?


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## tmluk (Sep 19, 2005)

"aspjr", I am sorry to hear that your frame cracked after ridding over a medium-sized pot hole. I am not replying to question that fact. But I am curious of your expectation of the bike manufacturer response.

You stated that Colnago's official position is that you either ship your frame back to the store from which you pruchased your frame -OR- back to Colnago. My opinion is that this response is acceptable. Just put yourself in the manufacturer's position. How can the manufacturer quantify your claim without examining the damage and without getting another party (e.g. local Colnago dealer) involved in the process that could lead to "finger pointing".

And I am sorry to hear that you have to pay for the repair outside of the warranty. The argument I imagine is whether the failure is due to poor workmanship or an accident. Again, just imagin another scenario. One is driving his/her car and hits a pot hole and damaged the suspension. Is this a poor workmanship claim or an accident claim? Typically this leads to an accident claim through your insurance, not the manufacturer.

That is why it is wise to shop around for an insurance company for home that would cover property damage (in this case a $$$ bike). Some countries consider a bicycle as a vehicle which I agree it is. Remember, a Colnago bike costs more than some used cars and people buy insurance for their cars. Think of it as a "vehicle" and protects it and yourself as such.

I am sorry to drag this on but my background is engineering for a hi-tech manufacturer where I do involve in design and failure analysis.


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## aspjr (Oct 25, 2006)

Guys,

For the sake of clarity I'll try to address all questions on a single post.

1. Conditions of use:
.I weight 71kg, ride recreational rides (@800km/mo.) and two or three times a year I compete in century amateur races. My bikes get cleaned and checked by a very good bike shop twice a month. I barely get flats or bent wheels. The only negative is the road conditions in Brasil are poor with translate in more stress to the frame and parts. Under this same scenario I’ve never cracked a frame in my 30 yrs. of cycling with very good frames made of steel, aluminum or titanium.

2. This frame has ridden @9k KM in 11 months under the same above scenario.

3. A few weeks before the crack I've noticed a small bubble forming on the lug from the BB to the seat tube.

4. My take is that the Extreme C is a superb frame. The downside is that even thought it's not clearly informed, it should not be one's only frame for everyday use. We heard stories about pro bikes not even being made by the official manufacturer of the team and of course very seldom a serious problem of a frame cracking gets to the press.

5. For 2007 Colnago has launched a more robust version of the Extreme called Extreme Power. One could assume that this was driven by a history of problems with the Extreme C!

6. I know other people who had other Colnagos for years w/o problems and others that did and faced a poor service.

7. Given that I know which conditions I used the bike and how fragile it is, after the crack my goal was to either repair the frame in warranty or even pay some amount to trade it to what I consider a more robust C50. PLS note that the C50 is cheaper than the Extreme C but I realized that some amount was due on trading a 1 yr. old bike to a news one. To my frustration neither the shop in Paris nor Colnago event considered the situation giving me a number for the trade.


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## fabsroman (Jul 14, 2006)

This is a tough situation. The shop in Paris and Colnago in Italy have to take you on your word that the frame was broken as you state. Imagine how many claims these places get where the person is lying because a new frame costs several thousands of dollars. People probably crash their bikes, break their frames, and then want to try and get it taken care of for free. I am convinced that this world would be a better place if everybody were hooked up to a lie detector. We wouldn't spend billions of dollars on litigation and things would go much smoother.

There is a shop in England that deals with repairs of Colnagos. It is called Maestro, and you can probably find it with a simple search. The guy you want to talk to is Mike. I saw pics on here of a C50 that was repaired by them. I think the top tube or seat tube needed to be replaced and the entire bike was repainted for $800.

As I posted in another thread, my take on the C50 is that it is a comportable bike, but not a bike that is good for everything. After the C50, the Extreme C was created for climbing, the Cristallo was created for everyday racing and sprinting, and the Extreme Power was created for sprinting. That tells me that the C50 isn't good enough for climbing, sprinting, or even everyday racing such as criteriums. The C50 is probably a great bike that is very comfortable for the leisurely rider, but it is not the best at anything in racing. If it were, the pros wouldn't be asking for other frames. Remember, the pros get paid to ride Colnagos, so they probably ride the C50 on days when the frame really doesn't matter too much. Who knows what they will be riding this season with the Extreme C, Extreme Power, and Cristallo as options over the C50.

The good thing about the lugged carbon fiber frames is that they can actually be repaired.


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## aspjr (Oct 25, 2006)

"Fabsroman",

I completely agree with your point of both pro cycling team bikes and the credibitly issue of my claim and that's why I asked a friend who works on the bike industry with another italian brand to intervene and add credibility to my claim. Unfortunetely it did not work.

Many thanks for the Maestro-UK tip. I'm now taking with a local (Brasil) frame repair shop that has very goods repair history and it's good to have a plan B.

My current thought is to properly repair and sell the Extreme C and purchase a frame more appropriate for my use.


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## fabsroman (Jul 14, 2006)

I think repairing and selling the Extreme C on your own will be your best course of action as far as avoiding additional headaches is concerned. The cost of repairs is just another cost of owning a Colnago, which is a company without a crash replacement policy in place.

Me, I just bought the Cristallo to try out a carbon fiber bike. It is said to be rather stiff, and that will suit my riding and racing needs for the time being. What I really do not like about it is that it is monocoque, and if it gets wrecked it cannot be repaired. If I like the feel of carbon fiber and decide to start racing again next year rather seriously, I am probably going to buy an Extreme Power frame and use it for most of my racing. I wish the Extreme Power had come out before I placed the order for the Cristallo because I would have bought it instead. I guess it never hurts to have extra bikes laying around.


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## aspjr (Oct 25, 2006)

From what I've been studying since the crack happened my option is the Cervelo Soloist Carbon. The feedback I've got is a solid durable frame that is very well balanced for most uses. Although I did not hear real experiences I have the impression that they stand behind their product.

What have you heard about it?


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## fabsroman (Jul 14, 2006)

I looked into Cervelo briefly, but the prices were almost as much as a Colnago, so I decided on the Colnago because it has been my dream bike for 20 years and it has a lot more history than a Cervelo. When push comes to shove, make sure the manufacturer has a crash replacement policy if you are really worried about the frame breaking. Yes, most manufacturers will stand behind their product, and I am sure that there are some manufacturing defects in the thousands of frames produced by all these manufacturers, but you need to be able to prove that it is their product that is defective through no fault of your own. Exactly what Cervelo will do for you that Colnago will not, I have no idea.

At the end of the day, you had a bad experience with Colnago on the Extreme C, but I think you made a mistake in choosing that frame to begin with. You will probably buy a Cervelo, never have a problem with it, and think their customer service is way better than Colnago's.

I had close to the same experience with a shotgun I bought. I will not go into details about it, but I bought a Browning that rusted up on the inside of the barrels and that developed severe gouge marks between the forearm and receiver. Neither the local dealer nor Browning would help me in any way with it. So, I decided to switch brands and went with Beretta and Benelli, which is owned by Beretta. For 11 years I had no problem with the 7 Berettas/Benellis that I had bought, but then it happened. The last three I bought, all during 2003 had issues with them. One had the plating flaking off between the receiver and forearm (i.e., where the Browning developed the gouging), another had slight machine marks on the receiver and the finish was coming off the stock, and the third had light machine marks on the receiver. At first, Beretta didn't want to do much for me, but I wouldn't take that for an answer. So, the customer service rep went back to his boss and asked him what he could do for me. They ended up replacing the first gun with a brand new one and they replaced the wood stock on the second gun with a new stock that was made out of much nicer wood. They couldn't do anything about the light machine marks on the receivers of the second and third guns, but I could live with that. You can bet I will be buying more of their guns.

Colnago is willing to take the frame and look over it. You have to at least give them the chance to fix the problem. I never would have asked Beretta to ship me new guns without looking at the three I had, and I didn't expect the customer service rep to be able to give me an answer when I dropped the guns off because he is just that, a customer service rep and not a gunsmith. If you send your frame back to Colnago, they will probably have some tests run on it to determine if the impact came from a pothole or not (i.e., they will attempt to verify your story).

In the DeRosa forum, or maybe this forum, there was a thread similar to this one regarding the level of customer service provided by DeRosa. I truly wish the manufacturers checked out this website and could respond.

Somebody blasted Bellatisport, a retailer of Colnagos and other frames and bike parts, on this site and the owner ended up responding on here. I ordered my frame from him, and he told me it would take 4 to 6 weeks to get it. In the end, it took 7 weeks, but I was willing to wait and he was really good with his communication with me. Regarding the post by the other person, that person eventually PM'ed me and said that everything had worked out with Mr. Bellati and that he saved a bunch of money on the purchase. Likewise, I saved a bunch of money on the purchase too and I am hoping that I can buy another frame from him next year.

Give Colnago a REAL chance before writing them off. In the end, you are still responsible for hitting a pothole, and there is even a disclaimer in the owner's manual about how much force a frame can withstand before breaking. The exact size of the pothole is the real issue. Too bad you didn't have anybody else riding with you when it happened (i.e., witnesses).


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## aspjr (Oct 25, 2006)

I see your point and agree with it. 

Regardless Colnago give a 2 yr. warranty versus lifetime from Cervelo. By checking around I found many negative stories from Colnago and none from Cervelo although as you said the first has been around for much longer potentially selling more frames and is more prone to have a higher volume of problems but maybe similar or smaller percentage which I do not know.

At this point I just did not see the positive attitude from Colgnago. In my case sending the bike to Italy and back to Brasil demands some care with import/export paperwork which I'm not comfortable that Colgnago will do. I feel that the cost/benefit of the local shop I'm using might be faster, simpler and maybe cheaper than sending it to Italy.

I recognize my fault and appreciate their point of view but regardless got frustrated based on the fact that I know what really happened and had a credible "middle man" in the dialoge.

By the way I have 22 witnesses to the incident. It happened during a trainning ride with the peloton I ride three times a week and at least four persons that were around me know for a fact what happened and are equally frustrated with Colnago's response.

This is past waters. I've learned the lesson and moved on.


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## fabsroman (Jul 14, 2006)

This is the reason I am glad that I am an attorney. Granted, it probably wouldn't come in handy since I bought my frame from Switzerland, but I could probably sue Colnago in the US for a manufacturing defect. It would get a little sticky. If I had 22 witnesses, you can bet that I would not back down unless I received a new frame. Good luck with the Cervelo, and I will agree that it is always easier to do business with a local bike shop if/when problems come up. However, I rolled the dice on this frame purchase because I saved $1,000.00.


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## gibson00 (Aug 7, 2006)

aspjr said:


> By checking around I found many negative stories from Colnago and none from Cervelo ...


You should search around more. There have been plenty of quality control problems with Cervelo in the past couple of years. Enough that they just had a complete recall on their R2.5 carbon frameset. That said, their customer service, in my experience, is quite good.

Why not check out a Look 585? They seem to get some of the very best reviews.


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## aspjr (Oct 25, 2006)

I sincerely hope that your Colnago gives you many pleasures and not problem.

Ride safe!


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## MWT (Nov 12, 2002)

I thought long and hard about a C50, but I ended up with a Parlee Z1x instead. I paid less (shop deal) than the Colnago, got custom geometry and a lifetime warranty. During the ordering process I got a CAD drawing of the design I spec'd along with their input. Frankly, I'm not sure why anyone wouldn't choose this option over a Colnago.


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## aspjr (Oct 25, 2006)

What have you heard about Cervelo quality problems? Does it still continues? Did it affect the SOloist Carbon frames?

Thanks for the tip but I've ridden the 585 and it did not impress me.


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## gibson00 (Aug 7, 2006)

aspjr said:


> What have you heard about Cervelo quality problems? Does it still continues? Did it affect the SOloist Carbon frames?
> 
> Thanks for the tip but I've ridden the 585 and it did not impress me.


Just out of interest, what dd you not like about the 585?
I haven't heard of any issues with the Soloist Carbon. Most of the qulity problems were with the R2.5 frames. Basically, they all broke (I went through 3 of them).


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## aspjr (Oct 25, 2006)

Which shop was it? I would like to learn more abou the Parlee.


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## Kemmelberg (Dec 27, 2005)

*should have been inspected by dealer in Brazil*

Since you bought your Colnago from an authorized dealer, Colnago should have accommodated you by directing you to an authorized dealer in Brazil for inspection of the frame. Hitting potholes is part of the normal use of a frame and should not ordinarily cause a frame to fail. Therefore, your frame should have been warrantied, and good customer service would dictate that that be done through a dealer in Brazil.


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## aspjr (Oct 25, 2006)

I couldn't agree more but the fact of life is that they do not have a rep in Brasil but rather in our neighbour Argentina. Regardless Colnago gave me only the France or Italy options.

Bottom line don't buy Colnagos if you live in a country that they don't have a rep!!


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## fabsroman (Jul 14, 2006)

If I ever went through 3 of the same frame, you can bet I wouldn't be looking at that manufacturer ever again. Nobody is that unlucky to receive the only three defective frames that they built. You would think that they would put these frames through some serious quality control tests before shipping them out to the consumer.


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## gibson00 (Aug 7, 2006)

fabsroman said:


> If I ever went through 3 of the same frame, you can bet I wouldn't be looking at that manufacturer ever again. Nobody is that unlucky to receive the only three defective frames that they built. You would think that they would put these frames through some serious quality control tests before shipping them out to the consumer.


I wasn't the only one, that is why there is a world wide recall on that model as we speak.


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## aspjr (Oct 25, 2006)

I found the 585 not rigid enough. Even though the Extreme C has quite some flex at the BB it does not feel as soft as the 585.


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## fabsroman (Jul 14, 2006)

That was my point. There is no way that you could have chaulked that up to a quality product with you being the unlucky one that received that many defective ones. Two frame failures by you and they should have known right away that there was a problem.

Imagine the litigation and damages that could be involved with frame failures. That is why I am surprised that they do not do better quality control testing on the frames to make sure they are able to stand up to some abuse.


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## aspjr (Oct 25, 2006)

FOR THE RECORD

An Italian friend that lives in Brasil and witnessed the incident decided to intervine using a contact at Columbus to talk to different persons as Colnago.

There is now the response that they what to further study the case before a final and more official (?) decision.

I'll keep this FORUM posted.


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## aspjr (Oct 25, 2006)

Another useless round of talks happened this week.

Colnago remains skepticall of my claim informing that:

1. Due to customs regulations I should ship the frame to the shop in France who will then send it to them.

2. Only if by Colnago's own discretion they conclude that I did not abuse the frame a repair/exchange action will happen. If they find me guilty the frame will be shipped back broken.

My point of view:

a. The french shop - La Gazelle - had failed to even respond to my emails which lead me to be very skeptical on their follow through of warranty procedure with Colnago. I beleive to have had high chances of just loosing the frame if I went this way.

b. Given Colnago's very skeptical attitude I feel insecure of the fairness of their analisys thus beleiving that all this time/cost and risk will not solve my problem.

Colnago responded that this was the best they could do!! In other words absolotely no customer focus but rather procedure focus.

End of story and I'll take my chances on trying to repair my frame locally.

Lesson learned. Don't buy and Extreme C for everyday use and don't buy Colnagos if your country does not have an official rep!!


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## fabsroman (Jul 14, 2006)

I don't blame Colnago for being skeptical, or for you being skeptical about sending the frame to the French shop. It truly is tough to deal with a vendor outside of your home country, as I am learning with 11speed, but it is a risk that we decide to take.

I don't know how much help I'll get on a warranty claim on my Colnago since I bought it from a dealer in Switzerland and I live in the US. However, I saved $1,000, so I am willing to roll the dice on it. Hopefully, it all works out.

Likewise, I hope everything works out for you.


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## aspjr (Oct 25, 2006)

I agree with your points.

My disapointment is that a friend who is the Director for Campy L.America helped on the conversation and I expected that his presence added credibility to the situation. Unfortunetely the Colnago executive we've been speaking to never got into the "customer solution mode".

I've bought frames abroad in the past for more than 15yrs. and this was a "first". I did gain on riding a premium frame not available in my country but I wonder if the price (emotional and financial) was not to high...

Lesson learned. Focus on my legs and ride frames that would no potentially create problems.


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## divve (May 3, 2002)

Your frame isn't necessarily damaged. This could also be a finishing problem. It's not all that uncommon for lugged carbon frames from Colnago or other brands to have coating flaws around the joints. I don't know whether this is a design flaw or perhaps it's simply a case of applying a coating that's too thick, which in turn leads to failures due to the lack of elasticity.


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## edmundjaques (Dec 29, 2005)

fabsroman said:


> This is a tough situation. The shop in Paris and Colnago in Italy have to take you on your word that the frame was broken as you state. Imagine how many claims these places get where the person is lying because a new frame costs several thousands of dollars. People probably crash their bikes, break their frames, and then want to try and get it taken care of for free. I am convinced that this world would be a better place if everybody were hooked up to a lie detector. We wouldn't spend billions of dollars on litigation and things would go much smoother.
> 
> There is a shop in England that deals with repairs of Colnagos. It is called Maestro, and you can probably find it with a simple search. The guy you want to talk to is Mike. I saw pics on here of a C50 that was repaired by them. I think the top tube or seat tube needed to be replaced and the entire bike was repainted for $800.
> 
> ...


Just a pat on the back/crawl/compliment to you: Your replies on this posting are spot on. You're probably right about the C50 being (effectively) an all rounder for those of us a bit (ie a lot) less able than the pros. You have made very intelligent and informed observations.
It's hard hearing about a disillusioned Colnago buddy though, nothing is perfect, even the long hand of Ernesto.


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## Clevor (Sep 8, 2005)

Even IF you can get a frame replacement under warrantee, another problem with high zoot brands like Colnago and Pinarello is the short warrantee period. I believe the Pinarello warrantee is also two years. Figure that $4700 2004 Dogma with magnesium frame, and that 'rust-protective' coating wears out . . .:cryin: It's the price you pay for exclusivity I guess.

"The good thing about the lugged carbon fiber frames is that they can actually be repaired."

My other bike is a Giant, and somehow I don't think I will have as much trouble as aspjr should that monocoque frame crack :yesnod:. Moreover, the frame has a lifetime warrantee with dealers throughout the US. And wouldn't you rather get a new frame than a repaired one? I've since wondered if I should have gone with a different Taiwan brand for my monocoque, like an Ibis Silk or Felt perhaps. Nope, ain't as big as Giant.

Consider that an LBS (where I bought my Giant) can exert quite a bit on pull on your behalf. For many of us in the U.S., that is not where we got our C50.

As for the bikes the pros ride, they can pretty much win on anything. Oscar Friere won two world championships on a C50. I think Rabobank and Panaria still ride C50s (2005 anyway). Look at Boonen and Bettini on Time frames. Landis on a BMC. Basso on a made-in-Taiwan Cervelo. And did anyone forget LA putting the hurt on TDF contenders for seven years on Trek, Bontrager, Mavic, and dare I say, Shimano? The Paris Carbon is on average, more expensive than even a C50 and nobody is winning on that except Valverde, who didn't have a good year.


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## aspjr (Oct 25, 2006)

Clevor,

The rational decision is to buy more robust frames. I've had a Giant TCR in the past which gave me ZERO problems. Someone also told me that they are one of the best carbon builders in world.

The problem is that for me choosing my rig has little to do with rational. The beauty of a Campy part. The feeling of a Colnago ride. That is what get us all into trouble.

This whole process that had been going on since July gave me a lot of headache but I must admit that last week I rode a few days on a C50 and as stupid as it sounds that ride made most of my bad feelings wash away...

We all know that the only part that really matters is above the saddle. But, since I've ridden enough in 30 years to learn about my limits, part of my joy goes on choosing the rig I ride. It's stupid but it's true!!


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## Fignon's Barber (Mar 2, 2004)

Clevor said:


> Even IF you can get a frame replacement under warrantee, another problem with high zoot brands like Colnago and Pinarello is the short warrantee period. I believe the Pinarello warrantee is also two years. Figure that $4700 2004 Dogma with magnesium frame, and that 'rust-protective' coating wears out . . .:cryin: It's the price you pay for exclusivity I guess.
> 
> "The good thing about the lugged carbon fiber frames is that they can actually be repaired." .................




clev, I agree with you. I have 2 colnagos, CT1 and Dreamplus both with Bstays, and heavily considering a C50 or possibly Christallo. Last week on the way home from a 'cross race, I stopped in a shop and purchased an Orbea Opal. The 2 main reasons were the monococque construction and the lifetime warranty. 
I think the fundamental advantage of the lugged carbon frame is the maker can offer more sizes. Colnago offers 22 standard sizes. In my opinion, that is the only advantage over monococque frames. The " its easy to repair" cliche is rubbish. First of all, The crashes I see rarely carefully select one tube to precisely damage. Even the OP picture of the tube cracked at the lug probably involves more than one joint. When you think about that one picture, as soon as that joint is displaced, think of the non- intended stresses placed on all the other lugged joints. If properly designed, a monococque should be stronger than a lugged structure. 
For me, I ride a 54x55 in traditional sized frames. Both the Opal and Christallo had perfect fit. Both stiff, Opal a bit lighter. Opal was roughly $1300 less for frame and fork, plus warranty made it a clear choice.


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