# Heavy duty wheels?



## askibum02 (May 19, 2013)

I'm buying my first road bike, a Trek Madone 2.1, and I don't think the wheels are going to stand up to my weight. What is a good heavy duty rim to look at? I'm thinking I will go with Chris King hubs.


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## dcgriz (Feb 13, 2011)

What is your weight?


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## askibum02 (May 19, 2013)

I weigh about 350 right now.


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## tednugent (Apr 26, 2010)

you couldn't ask on VWVOrtex also?

you're going with 36 holed rim.


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## dcgriz (Feb 13, 2011)

What is the widest tire you could fit in your bike? 10 speed or 11?


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## Zen Cyclery (Mar 10, 2009)

You could always lace Kings to a HED C2 clincher in a 32/32 hole count. A build like that should be able to handle your weight with no issues.


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## askibum02 (May 19, 2013)

The widest I can fit is 700x25, and it's a 10 speed. I was thinking 32h, I don't think I'd even need 36h on my mountain bike.


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## Jay Strongbow (May 8, 2010)

askibum02 said:


> The widest I can fit is 700x25, and it's a 10 speed. I was thinking 32h, I don't think I'd even need 36h on my mountain bike.


I really don't get this line of thinking. Sure you _may_ not 'need' 36 but you _most certainly_ don't 'need' as few as 32.

I suppose I can understand wanting to go with a brand of hub that isn't made with 36 holes but otherwise going 32 instead of 36 at 350 pounds doesn't make a ton of sense to me.


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## Mike T. (Feb 3, 2004)

Jay Strongbow said:


> I suppose I can understand wanting to go with a brand of hub that isn't made with 36 holes but otherwise going 32 instead of 36 at 350 pounds doesn't make a ton of sense to me.


He would have zero gain by losing 4 spokes per wheel and going with 32 versus 36. But he would lose lots - strength and durability being the first ones to come to mind.


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## valleycyclist (Nov 1, 2009)

In terms of rims, it is hard to beat DT Swiss TK540 rims for heavier duty applications. Velocity Dyad rims are another good choice. As others mentioned, even though 32 spokes are okay, 36 will not hurt, especially for the rear wheel.


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## dcgriz (Feb 13, 2011)

First of all don't be detracted from the higher spoke count. 36 spoke wheels were the norm before the weight weenie mentality took over and recreational cycling became focused on racing. For most people cycling should involve equipment that dependably would take you from point A to point B without worrying about either being stranded or in need to see a chiropractor afterwards.

A 32 spoke wheel may work for you but long term durability and dependability will be a challenge to say the least. A 36 spoke arrangement will give you an extra margin of safety which I think you should welcome.

No need to spend the high dollars for a King hub. Shimano 105 and Ultegra hubs will be dependable and will roll without any loss in performance. The price of the hubs exponentially increases when weight is shaved off. Recreational riding is not affected by the hub weighing 80 grams more. Guaranteed you will not feel the difference in hub weight when you roll on a 500 grams hubset (i.e. Ultegra) vs. a 350 gram boutique hub. Pawl engagement and the rest of the stuff driving the cost to arguably ridiculous levels would not make a difference for recreational riding. What you need is a sturdy axle hub that rolls well and for that you can't beat the cup and cone loose ball types like the Ultegra.

As far as rims go you should consider the wider variety weighing around 530 to 560 grams. Example would be the Velocity Dyad. Deep V should also work but it is a narrower rim and that will affect the tire pressure. For a bit more money the DT 540 would also be a good choice and that would be my best recommendation.

IMO, any of these rims laced 3x all around using Sapim Force (triple butted) or DT Alpine spokes and brass nipples would build to a dependable wheel for you.

Tires would be a bigger challenge than finding suitable rims if your bike could only fit 25mm widths.
For a rider and bike total weight of around 370 lbs you are far exceeding the rated pressures for 25mm tires when you consider a 40/60 or 45/55 weight arrangements.
I would try and see if 28mm could fit and I think they would on your Madonne but I'm not 100% sure. 28mm in the front and 32mm in the back would have been a better choice.

All in all, I think you will do best with a custom wheel built around these parameters than anything factory built because the prebuilts are not build to address your parameters.


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## Guest (Oct 11, 2013)

I guess you are looking for something expensive and all but if you wanted a set of wheels that are inexpensive, tough and look pretty good then bike nashbar has a wheelset that is rated for 300lbs. It will take 700x23,25,28 tires.


Anyway they will fit the bike, they are 10 speed, they are designed to hold 300lbs.


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## dcgriz (Feb 13, 2011)

I would advise caution against these Vuelta Corsa. They are not rated high enough for the OP's weight and they are cheaply made out of inappropriate parts for the OP's weight.

When the wheel is subjected to high radial and lateral loading, it is paramount to use the proper components and building techniques to assure strength. No machine knocking a wheel every 10 minutes can do that and no price point at $149 can buy the material the OP needs to buy if he wants the product to last him.


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## Guest (Oct 11, 2013)

dcgriz said:


> I would advise caution against these Vuelta Corsa. They are not rated high enough for the OP's weight and they are cheaply made out of inappropriate parts for the OP's weight.
> 
> When the wheel is subjected to high radial and lateral loading, it is paramount to use the proper components and building techniques to assure strength. No machine knocking a wheel every 10 minutes can do that and no price point at $149 can buy the material the OP needs to buy if he wants the product to last him.


The wheels are strong enough.


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## Tachycardic (Mar 31, 2013)

I'm going to say it right here because you won't listen to the advice given to you in your other thread...the frame you want is rated for 275 pounds. You are 350. Get something that more appropriate for your weight. If something fails and you suffer an injury, it's on you. If you were still AD, an LOD investigation would have been initiated and TRICARE would not have covered any of your medical costs. What you're doing is irresponsible. 

/rant off


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## Guest (Oct 11, 2013)

Tachycardic said:


> I'm going to say it right here because you won't listen to the advice given to you in your other thread...the frame you want is rated for 275 pounds. You are 350. Get something that more appropriate for your weight. If something fails and you suffer an injury, it's on you. If you were still AD, an LOD investigation would have been initiated and TRICARE would not have covered any of your medical costs. What you're doing is irresponsible.
> 
> /rant off



I am going to withdraw my suggestion for the cheap Vuelta's wheels. They are heavy and strong but I am going with Tachycardic on the safety issue.


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## dcgriz (Feb 13, 2011)

lighthouse54.1 said:


> The wheels are strong enough. As far as long range use they would be goood for a couple decades of hard and brutal usage.


Strong enough for whom? a 225 lbs rider like your reference that has absolutely no bearing with the OP's question or situation?

How do you derive to the conclusion of the "couple of decades of hard and brutal use"? What is in that cheaply made piece of parc that gives this flair of confidence?


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## dcgriz (Feb 13, 2011)

@askibum02

I debated whether continuing posting on this thread but the latest posts I read compelled me to do so.

I can't say I disagree with the logic of the posters who posted against your choice of the aluminum Madone 2.1. The bike is officially rated for riders up to 275 lbs and you are at 350 lbs. It is safer to get a sturdier frame although your safety and well being, in the big picture, is going beyond any bicycle.
I do applaud your effort to take control of your weight using cycling as the way to do it. In order for you to continue to be motivated you need to have the will and the desire. Liking the bike you ride goes a long way for either and thats my incentive of writing the following.

Rating the rider weight for a frame is a complicated process that involves much more than staticly loading a frame until a joint or member buckles. There are a lot of assumptions made about speed, torque and lateral loading and that's even before the lawyers get their hands on it. So rest assured this Madone will not disintegrate under your weight as soon as you ride it. It may not and most probably will not last you as long as it would a lighter rider but it will serve its purpose and get you exercising. You do have to exercise good dilligence though and help the frame help you. Unload your weight off the saddle when going over bumps. Concentrate on trails and limit your speed by avoiding steep descents. Inspect the frame often for any developing cracks at the welded joints. Aluminum is not like carbon; it will show signs before it breaks. This last point brings me to the carbon fork which I think may be the weakest link on this bike for you. Inspect it often and if you happen to bang it, dink it, crash it etc do ask the opinion of an expert on its well being.

Again, let me stress the point that there are other frames better suited for your weight but the way I see it is that you are already at great risk by doing nothing.

Good luck.

P.S.: The wheels I suggested earlier will dependably carry your weight. Do not use the stock OEM wheels. Use the largest tires you could possibly fit. Use calipers to measure the chainstay clearance and the clearance under the brake crown.


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## rruff (Feb 28, 2006)

askibum02 said:


> I'm buying my first road bike, a Trek Madone 2.1, and I don't think the wheels are going to stand up to my weight (350lbs). What is a good heavy duty rim to look at? I'm thinking I will go with Chris King hubs.


Unless you've already bought the Madone... don't. 

Get a cyclocross bike. You might be able to get a good deal on a sturdy model with canti brakes. It will already come with strong wheels and will take larger tires. Don't be shy about large slicks... they have less rolling resistance than smaller tires.


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## Guest (Oct 11, 2013)

I asked my son who popped in late last night. He is an avid cyclist and he thought that a hybrid type bike would work out. Flat bars and the brake levers are set up for excellent leverage. A more upright position with Cantilever brakes. Wider hybrid tires/rims and 36 spokes.


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## terbennett (Apr 1, 2006)

How about a set of Velocity Deep Vs or better yet, Velocity A23s? Both both are bulletproof. I bet that even the 32 spoke version can hold you but going 36 spoke would make them indestructible. I wouldn't even consider a Madone at your weight. I know that their carbon bikes have a max weight of 275 lbs. Not sure about the aluminum models though. You really should consider a cyclocross bike for the added strength. The Madone will probably hold you with no problems, but having a max weight limit keeps them from being responsible if the frame happens to fail. Just understand that riding it can void your warranty. I'm surprised the shop wouldn't have asked you abotu that.


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## Mike T. (Feb 3, 2004)

terbennett said:


> How about a set of Velocity Deep Vs or better yet, Velocity A23s? Both both are bulletproof. I bet that even the 32 spoke version can hold you but going 36 spoke would make them indestructible. I wouldn't even consider a Madone at your weight. I know that their carbon bikes have a max weight of 275 lbs. Not sure about the aluminum models though. You really should consider a cyclocross bike for the added strength. The Madone will probably hold you with no problems, but having a max weight limit keeps them from being responsible if the frame happens to fail. Just understand that riding it can void your warranty. I'm surprised the shop wouldn't have asked you abotu that.


The problem with "road racing" bikes is that the OP won't be able to use tires with sufficient volume for his weight. Most bikes in this category are designed for 23mm wide tires which are just silly for most people - especially those heavier than (arguably) 150 lbs. Many road bikes will fit 25mm tires but those, IMO, are ridiculous for the OP's weight. He should be on smooth cyclo-cross width tires in the 32 ~ 40mm widths. Places like Velo Orange and Rivendell specialize in them.


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## skitorski (Dec 4, 2012)

A $350 Specialized Expedition will do anything posted above.

Get Real.

To the OP.

You got some great advice and some web blather.

Wider bigger tires until you lose a few pounds. These come standard on any cheap comfort cruiser. 

Get out there and start pedaling !!!!


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## Tachycardic (Mar 31, 2013)

dcgriz said:


> @askibum02
> 
> I debated whether continuing posting on this thread but the latest posts I read compelled me to do so.
> 
> ...


Have we gone completely bonkers? Risk assessment 101--catastrophic consequences that may occur rarely or under exceptional circumstances still equates to a high level of risk. Why even tempt fate if there are PLENTY of other options for the OP? Should we tell him to start P90x or Insanity as long as he has a decent pair of sneakers? Look, I'm not trying to be a jerk about this, but I'm just trying to help...really I am.


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## dcgriz (Feb 13, 2011)

@tachychadric post #19

We are all trying to help. The OP went out on the Wounded Warrior Ride, rode the Madone, liked it, got motivated to start road cycling, bought/buying the bike and came here asking for sturdier wheels.

Instead of shutting him down like a few did using the Trek published rider weight limit which most know absolutely nothing about more than the absolute figure they read, I am telling him his choices and his trade offs. It is just plain silly to take the 275 lbs Trek rider weight limit and use it as an absolute value, not to be exceeded because catastrophic failure is eminent. The 275 lbs limit is Trek's default for all of their road and touring bikes; from the steel 520 to the carbon Madone 7. Their mountain and cyclocross bike limit is 300 lbs. As I indicated earlier, these limits have more to do with lifetime warranty and liability for all conditions and eventualities and the fear of the manufacturer being sued.

As I said before, the biggest challenge the OP is faced with, is the tire size not the frame.


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## Guest (Oct 12, 2013)

dcgriz said:


> We are all trying to help. The OP went out on the Wounded Warrior Ride, rode the Madone, liked it, got motivated to start road cycling, bought/buying the bike and came here asking for sturdier wheels.
> 
> Instead of shutting him down like a few did using the Trek published rider weight limit which most know absolutely nothing about more than the absolute figure they read, I am telling him his choices and his trade offs. It is just plain silly to take the 275 lbs Trek rider weight limit and use it as an absolute value, not to be exceeded because catastrophic failure is eminent. The 275 lbs limit is Trek's default for all of their road and touring bikes; from the steel 520 to the carbon Madone 7. Their mountain and cyclocross bike limit is 300 lbs. As I indicated earlier, these limits have more to do with lifetime warranty and liability for all conditions and eventualities and the fear of the manufacturer being sued.
> 
> As I said before, the biggest challenge the OP is faced with, is the tire size not the frame.



The opinion from bicycle riders in this forum is the bike he has chosen is not safe on several different levels.


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## changingleaf (Aug 20, 2009)

I recommend handbuilt wheels with the DT Swiss TK540 rims or Velocity Dyad rims. I also recommend a bike with a stronger frame to start with.


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## vmps (Feb 15, 2013)

I also like the dt tk540 as well as the idea of using the touring bike or a cyclocross frame for durability and tire clearance. You won't notice any advantage to the madone once you put on appropriate wheels, and not being to put on at least 35mm tires is a show stopper. At your weight you'd need something like 120 psi on a 32mm tire or about 100 on a 35. It isn't easy to find tires rated that high at those sizes, and the bigger you can fit in the frame, the more comfortable and reliable they will be (will require less pressure). Narrower tires would require stupid high pressures.


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## TheMilkMan (Apr 30, 2012)

I am about 325 down from nearly 400 and ride with another clyde. Here are the wheelsets we run. My training partner Velocity deep v 36h -105 hubs - specialized roubaix 25m tires at 100psi fr and 105 psi rear. My wheelsets Velocity A23 pro build 32h -25m tubless bontrager R2 tires at 90 psi fr and 95 psi rear and Shimano c50 - 25m conti gp 4000 at 90 psi front and 100 psi rear. The A23 are my everyday wheelset. I only ride the c50's for races or special events. Neither of us have had any issues with any of our wheelsets. Wider tires make a real difference in comfort. I would probably ride wider tires but 25m is the widest I can fit on my ride.

Don't be afraid to talk to manufactures about weight limits not only for wheels but any component. I have emailed almost every major manufacture and usually receive answers with in a couple of days.


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## Tachycardic (Mar 31, 2013)

dcgriz said:


> @tachychadric post #19
> 
> As I indicated earlier, these limits have more to do with lifetime warranty and liability for all conditions and eventualities and the fear of the manufacturer being sued.


I just have to ask...how do you know this with absolute certainty? Do you work for Trek or represent them as legal counsel? 

And I never said that frame failure was eminent. I implied that a catastrophic failure, no matter how rare, still puts him at high risk for serious injury or death. 

Let me ask you, do you routinely over-inflate your bike's tires above maximum PSI as stated on the sidewall? With your logic, all it will do is void its warranty.


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## calrider61 (Jul 1, 2012)

My experience. Started riding again at 340 lbs. Bought mountain bike and put on Ritchey Slick Tires. Broke a spoke, no big deal to get home. At that weight largest problem was braking not potential speed penalty from too many spokes. No worry with frame strength. Front suspension helped with all the upper body weight I was putting on my hands, arms, butt, etc.. Just put some miles in daily and at 225lbs start shopping a road bike.
Now two and a half years later at 145lbs I can worry about 2.0-1.8 DB spokes vs 2.0-1.5 on road bike. Good luck.


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## dcgriz (Feb 13, 2011)

Tachycardic said:


> I just have to ask...how do you know this with absolute certainty? Do you work for Trek or represent them as legal counsel?
> 
> And I never said that frame failure was eminent. I implied that a catastrophic failure, no matter how rare, still puts him at high risk for serious injury or death.
> 
> Let me ask you, do you routinely over-inflate your bike's tires above maximum PSI as stated on the sidewall? With your logic, all it will do is void its warranty.


Stop before you further embarrass your self! You argue for the shake of argument and your lack of knowledge is becoming more and more apparent. Your latest statement about inflation pressure attests to that.

You came here chasing the OP from the Madone vs. Domane thread from the Bikes subforum waving the "You exceed the manufacturer's published rider weight limit by 75 lbs" flag. I told you that the 275 lbs rating is Trek's default rider weight for all of their road and touring bikes (from the steel 520 to the flagship carbon Madone 7), you chose to disregard it and came back here arguing about the warranty point I made and asking whether or not I work for Trek? What a silly response!

Understand this; the OP rode the bike for the weekend, liked it and bought it. Period! In post #28 in the Madone vs. Domane thread the OP fully describes his situation and obviously understands the limitations. He talks about the manufacturer's rider weight limit and his discussions on that subject. He ends by saying "...I'm damned if I do and damned if I don't...." and that's the real and hard truth.

I addition to your microscopic view on this issue you have no personal experience and feel on the predicaments and challenges an overweight rider is faced with. On the other thread you started you stated you are 135lbs. At that weight you have never given a moment's notice on the so called " rider weight limit" rating on bikes or wheels. Multiple clydes posted on this thread about their experiences. None of the equipment they said they use is officially rated for their weight but they are still alive and not in the hospital. Take a clue!

I keep posting on this not because I feel like arguing with the likes of you but because I really dont want to let the OP, or anybody else at a similar situtation, feel embarrassed or get detracted from starting to ride. In my view, he needs to be told the risks (and there are risks!) and identify the weakest links (for the OP's bike: OEM wheels, tire size, carbon fork). I feel that sensible riding habits and frequent bike inspection would allow the OP to ride the bike that motivates him to do so and in the process manage his health and his weight. This particular bike may not last the OP as long it would have lasted a lighter person but it will not suddenly disentegrate under him either.


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## askibum02 (May 19, 2013)

To those that have given me genuine, helpful answers to my question, thank you. I have one more question re: spokes. What are good heavy duty spokes? I've seen aero spokes, 2.0/1.8 butted spokes, and 2.0/1.5/2.0 butted spokes. Which ones are going to be stronger?


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## tednugent (Apr 26, 2010)

askibum02 said:


> To those that have given me genuine, helpful answers to my question, thank you. I have one more question re: spokes. What are good heavy duty spokes? I've seen aero spokes, 2.0/1.8 butted spokes, and 2.0/1.5/2.0 butted spokes. Which ones are going to be stronger?


You will be fine with the 2.0/1.8 double butted spokes (and they are also relatively inexpensive).

WHen you drop your weight... whever target(s), you can always treat yourself to the fancier components.

Tachycardic/dcgriz, not sure if askibum02 mentioned it in RBR or not, when he recently did a Wounded Warrior Project ride, he did specifically talk to the local trek rep about whether an aluminum framed road bike is suitable or not.... he revealed this info at a different forum.... cross bikes were also previously suggested


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## Guest (Oct 17, 2013)

dcgriz said:


> Strong enough for whom? a 225 lbs rider like your reference that has absolutely no bearing with the OP's question or situation?
> 
> How do you derive to the conclusion of the "couple of decades of hard and brutal use"? What is in that cheaply made piece of parc that gives this flair of confidence?


They passed the test of my son-in-law which means they are brute stong wheels.


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## dcgriz (Feb 13, 2011)

askibum02 said:


> To those that have given me genuine, helpful answers to my question, thank you. I have one more question re: spokes. What are good heavy duty spokes? I've seen aero spokes, 2.0/1.8 butted spokes, and 2.0/1.5/2.0 butted spokes. Which ones are going to be stronger?


Triple butted 2.3/1.8/2.0 will be the most durable and your best choice, double butted 2.0/1.8/2.0 will be the second best. Stay away from the 2.0/1.5/2.0; too light.
The straight gauge spokes (ie 2.3) give you a false sense of durability. Their thicker gauge is definitely strong but their lack in elasticity makes them less durable.
Note the difference between "durable" and "strong". You want a spoke that is strong enough to stay put but elastic enough to follow the movement of the wheel without affecting itself as well as other components thus making it durable.


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## dcgriz (Feb 13, 2011)

tednugent said:


> You will be fine with the 2.0/1.8 double butted spokes (and they are also relatively inexpensive).
> 
> WHen you drop your weight... whever target(s), you can always treat yourself to the fancier components.
> 
> Tachycardic/dcgriz, not sure if askibum02 mentioned it in RBR or not, when he recently did a Wounded Warrior Project ride, he did specifically talk to the local trek rep about whether an aluminum framed road bike is suitable or not.... he revealed this info at a different forum.... cross bikes were also previously suggested


If you are referring to the OP's thread under the Bikes/Frames sub forum, I read it. The Trek hybrid rider weight is @ 300lbs, 25 lbs more than the rating for their road bikes. No matter how one looks at it, if you look at only the numbers, nothing is suitable. I think we all know that is not necessarily true.

I am not sure anymore if he bought the bike or not. At any rate, the OP has been given a lot of information and opinions to help him decide.


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## Guest (Oct 17, 2013)

I sent an email to Surly bikes. From reading their weight limits in appears that they rate their bikes at 300lbs
I will post up what they have to say when the respond if they do.


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## Guest (Oct 18, 2013)

Well Surly sent back the answer. To sum it up they said 300lbs max weight limit. Sounds like for safety first the thing to do is lose weight first and then ride.


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## mattotoole (Jan 3, 2008)

Has anyone mentioned this yet? Components proven for tandems -- which normally carry 250-400 LB -- may be your best bet (for everyone involved).


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## askibum02 (May 19, 2013)

dcgriz said:


> I am not sure anymore if he bought the bike or not. At any rate, the OP has been given a lot of information and opinions to help him decide.


I did order a Madone 2.1, I pick it up Monday.:thumbsup: For those that offered bike suggestions, thank you, but this thread was about building a set of heavy duty wheels, not about whether or not I should buy a bike.

I'm going to ride the bike as is until the wheels need to be replaced, and in the mean time have a set of wheels built with 36h Ultegra hubs, Velocity A23 rims and 25c tires. I may try tubeless, but I will see how I do with tubes first.


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## Guest (Oct 20, 2013)

Good luck and enjoy the bike..


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