# Ullrich and a ridiculous statement.



## dagger (Jul 22, 2004)

"Lance has dominated the Tour for the last six years and whoever beats him is going to be the greatest," Ullrich said.

and later he said "I want to beat the best to be the best of the best. That's my motivation - this is the last chance."


I think Ullrich doesn't understand that "to be the greatest then he should grasp the concept of consistency." If he thinks that a win this year will make himself "the greatest ever" is total absurdity. One win over Lance will not propel him to be a better cyclist historically than Lance Armstrong. Especially after he has had his a$$ handed to him for all those years. He has consistently been beaten by Lance and if he wins 1 outa of 5-6 does not make him a better cyclist. Heck...if he is better than Lance then why has he duplicated every tactic and technique of Lance to try to beat him. He can't beat Lance on his own terms so he has to copycat Lance. The more I think of it Ullrich's behavior exudes his own lack of imagination and creativity and he is only a "knee jerk" reactionary poser. I have never disliked Ullrich but his behavior is beginning to create in me a lack of respect for him.


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## MaRider (Mar 21, 2002)

dagger said:


> "Lance has dominated the Tour for the last six years and whoever beats him is going to be the greatest," Ullrich said.
> 
> and later he said "I want to beat the best to be the best of the best. That's my motivation - this is the last chance."
> 
> ...


I thought the same thing, except I suspect Ulrich is smart enough to know the difference - I believe something was lost in translation. Perhaps what he was saying is that once Armstrong retires, the "top dog" spot becomes open, and that if someone beats Armstrong at this year's TdF, that person will automatically be considered the best grand tour cyclist in Armstrong's absence (or at least for a year or so). 

Regardless of whether Ulrich or someone else beats Armstrong, without Armstrong Ulrich has arguably the best grand tour record of the bunch. A lot of people are writing Ulrich off, based solely on the fact he didn't make the podium last year - but remember that it was his illness, not lack of form, that put Ulrich in that fourth position. The same people overlook Basso's illness by declaring him the greatest threat to Armstrong. 

I agree with atpjunkie - no matter what other people say, Giro and Vuelta are not the same as Tour, and TT in Giro is on a whole different level from that in the Tour - just because Basso was one of the best Giro TT, doesn't mean much once you start comparing him to guys like Armstrong and Ulrich at their peak form. 

I think that all hype aside, Basso still has a lot of homework to do before he can successfully challenge for grand tour win - and Ulrich has the best shot to dislodge Armstrong from top position at this year's TdF.


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## mmoose (Apr 2, 2004)

I shook my head at that statement also. I hope it was just something lost in translation.

Yes, if someone defeats LA this year, they will be remembered, maybe inherit the throne etc etc...but is Riis the greatest for beating Indurain? (not knocking Riis, just making a point) Is Lemond the greatest for beatin Hinault? one tour win does not make a Merckx.

But hey, if that is what it takes for JU to get motivated, more power to him...just back your mouth up with the legs...


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## dagger (Jul 22, 2004)

*Re: Translation*

I took in account that the translation might be have be off and that's why I posted the second comment which is consistent with the first. Even his interviews are mirrors of Lance's. But I also wanted to point out that if he thinks he is a better cyclist then why does he have to duplicate Lance's every move. He does not show any "originality" or "impact" on the sport which is necessary if you are going to consider yourself one of the greatest.


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## MaRider (Mar 21, 2002)

mmoose said:


> I shook my head at that statement also. I hope it was just something lost in translation.
> 
> Yes, if someone defeats LA this year, they will be remembered, maybe inherit the throne etc etc...but is Riis the greatest for beating Indurain? (not knocking Riis, just making a point) Is Lemond the greatest for beatin Hinault? one tour win does not make a Merckx.
> 
> But hey, if that is what it takes for JU to get motivated, more power to him...just back your mouth up with the legs...


Speaking of Lemond, has anyone watch his special on OLN? He said something to the effect of "Hinault had his best year in 1986 and I beat him at his best..." 

I don't think it could be argued that Hinault was at his best the year he effectively stopped racing. And how would we know? It was a very arrogant statement on Lemond's part.

I realize that all winners of the tour are A-type personalities with enormous egos, and I am willing to accept this in Armstrong, but in Lemond special the overall theme was - piling up a number of what seems almost like excuses. Instead of focusing on what he HAS accomplished, Lemond wanted to talk about how he was screwed by his team, by Hinault, by fate etc. - and that he "could have won 5 or 6 tours" if it wasn't for all his misfortunes... I think he even says something like that in the opening... I am sure one could argue that he COULD have won more tours, but I don't think I ever heard Armstrong talk about how he could have won 10 tours if he didn't miss all those years due to cancer. Or how he could have almost won road race or time trial at 2000 in Sydney if only Vino, Kloden and Ulrich didn't work together against him, or if only Eki had more team spirit...
Armstrong seems to accept his fate for what it is, and enjoy the good side... Lemond, with somewhat similar personal story of survival, seems to focus on what could have been.

This puts Lemonds' denigrating statements about Armstrong a few years ago in some perspective... Two huge egos fighting over who gets the legacy of the top american tour cyclist...


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## dagger (Jul 22, 2004)

*I noticed too*



MaRider said:


> Speaking of Lemond, has anyone watch his special on OLN? He said something to the effect of "Hinault had his best year in 1986 and I beat him at his best..."
> 
> I don't think it could be argued that Hinault was at his best the year he effectively stopped racing. And how would we know? It was a very arrogant statement on Lemond's part.
> 
> ...


and they also did some slamming on Hinault. I thought it was funny that Lemond(who was arrogant) was calling Hinault arrogant.


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## Minimalist (Apr 20, 2005)

*Translation*

I just read the interview in German. The translation of the first sentence is completely off. I'm not a translator myself but I give it a try:

"Lance has dominated the Tour for the last six years, one just wants to beat this man."

The second sentence is translated fairly accurate but in the context and in German, it does not imply that he thinks by beating Lance he will be the greatest cyclist in history. 

Just FYI. as to my credentials, like I'm said I'm not a transslator but a native German living in the US.


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## dagger (Jul 22, 2004)

*Thanks*



Minimalist said:


> I just read the interview in German. The translation of the first sentence is completely off. I'm not a translator myself but I give it a try:
> 
> "Lance has dominated the Tour for the last six years, one just wants to beat this man."
> 
> ...


Then if your translation is correct then we can let this topic die.


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## ttug (May 14, 2004)

*Stimmt nicht*



Minimalist said:


> I just read the interview in German. The translation of the first sentence is completely off. I'm not a translator myself but I give it a try:
> 
> "Lance has dominated the Tour for the last six years, one just wants to beat this man."
> 
> ...


Jan ist Faul. Es ist sicher ohne Ausnahme.


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## magnolialover (Jun 2, 2004)

*Got to take into account...*



dagger said:


> Then if your translation is correct then we can let this topic die.


I think that you've got take into account the entire statement, and yes, something was lost in translation. Ullrich just wants to beat the best Tour de France rider ever. He's not saying if he wins, he'll be the greatest ever. Also, you've got to look at Ullrich's past statements on just about anything. He's not a braggart, he's not conceited, he's been nothing but class and spot on in the past. He doesn't talk junk, the man just wants to win.


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## atpjunkie (Mar 23, 2002)

*figured bad translation*

"Lance has dominated the Tour for the last six years, one just wants to beat this man."

The second sentence is translated fairly accurate but in the context and in German, it does not imply that he thinks by beating Lance he will be the greatest cyclist in history. 

I figured he meant '"it would be the greatest thing to beat him in his final year"

he's not that dumb

go kaiser


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## ttug (May 14, 2004)

*above and beyond*



atpjunkie said:


> "Lance has dominated the Tour for the last six years, one just wants to beat this man."
> 
> The second sentence is translated fairly accurate but in the context and in German, it does not imply that he thinks by beating Lance he will be the greatest cyclist in history.
> 
> ...


In order to convey meaning, one mst go beyond the spoken word. Perhaps if we sent Jan a yellow teletubby there would be some slight conveyed?


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## Minimalist (Apr 20, 2005)

*Stimm wohl*



ttug said:


> Jan ist Faul. Es ist sicher ohne Ausnahme.


Das Ulle nicht unbedingt der fleissigste im Training ist, ist bekannt. Aber faul? Ich bin faul, da ich waehrend der Arbeitszeit hier poste. Und Du vermutlich auch.


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## ttug (May 14, 2004)

*geb nicht auf!*



Minimalist said:


> Das Ulle nicht unbedingt der fleissigste im Training ist, ist bekannt. Aber faul? Ich bin faul, da ich waehrend der Arbeitszeit hier poste. Und Du vermutlich auch.


genau......


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## Bocephus Jones II (Oct 7, 2004)

ttug said:


> genau......


edited to remove post...while I think my intention was to be flip and humorous--upon reflection this comment was just crass and insensitive. Mea culpa and apologies to any offense I may have caused. --Thanks Minimalist for the heads up in the PM...you were right to call me on this.


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## ttug (May 14, 2004)

*golly tamale*



Bocephus Jones II said:


> arbeit macht frei


Grips sind auch frei. Konnen Sie sich diese leisten?


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## dagger (Jul 22, 2004)

*Ist dieser Artikel verfügbar, um im Web zu lesen?*



ttug said:


> Grips sind auch frei. Konnen Sie sich diese leisten?


Ist dieser Artikel verfügbar, um im Web zu lesen?


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## EpicX (Mar 11, 2002)

dagger said:


> and they also did some slamming on Hinault. I thought it was funny that Lemond(who was arrogant) was calling Hinault arrogant.


i always liked lemond, but it's been almost sad to watch his attitude since lance became a tour winner. he seems really bitter. he got a good dig at lance too on that show. At the part where they started talking about a dramatic increase in speeds and doping in the early 90's, he makes a comment to the effect of: you can say you are smarter or you train harder and longer than anyone, but that can't account for the giant increase. again i'm paraphrasing because i can't remember the exact quote, but that is close and certainly captures the tone. 

to me it sounded like it was aimed straight at lance who always responds to doping charges with "i train harder than anyone else"

as for lance taking a shot at him, who cares? he generally has tried to be gracious and acknowledges lemonds' contibutions to the sport in the US. lemond on the other hand usually either says something outright negative about lance or insinuates somehow that he is a doper or his wins are not legit. it gets old. not suprising lance finally takes a personal shot at him.


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## dagger (Jul 22, 2004)

*das Lachen laut*



ttug said:


> genau......


* das Lachen laut * Verfallen? Sie Kerle sind zu komisch. Ich werde verfallen, und meine Arbeit wird verfallen, weil ich zu viel dahineile. gestern ging ich das Bergradeln und versuchte ein schwieriges Glanzstück, und jetzt habe ich ein blaues Auge wie Lanze. Vielleicht werde ich an unserem Monatszeitrennen heute Abend wegen seiner schnell sein.


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## Minimalist (Apr 20, 2005)

dagger said:


> Ist dieser Artikel verf�gbar, um im Web zu lesen?


Ja, hier.


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## dagger (Jul 22, 2004)

*Good article*



Minimalist said:


> Ja, hier.


I thought it was funny that he was trying to get a date with the interviewer.


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## ttug (May 14, 2004)

*Wie?*



dagger said:


> I thought it was funny that he was trying to get a date with the interviewer.



Es ist ganz typish fur Jan. Ich hab die Nase voll von diesen so gennanten "GREATEST OF ALL TIME"......usw usw Das ist doch Quatsch....


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## ttug (May 14, 2004)

*Die Blumen blumen*



dagger said:


> * das Lachen laut * Verfallen? Sie Kerle sind zu komisch. Ich werde verfallen, und meine Arbeit wird verfallen, weil ich zu viel dahineile. gestern ging ich das Bergradeln und versuchte ein schwieriges Glanzstück, und jetzt habe ich ein blaues Auge wie Lanze. Vielleicht werde ich an unserem Monatszeitrennen heute Abend wegen seiner schnell sein.


Meine erste worter auf Deutsch. 

However, the diff between our 2 languages is not severe at least until articles get butchered. Yes, I have a very very hard time seeing Jan be a champion in the sense of hard work and dedication. DAS LACHEN LAUT UND OFT. 

To attribute the sense of "foolishness" is wrong. Er hat Witz. He just wants to be the guy who beat a 6 time TDF champ. WTF? Who would not want that. If anybody had a shot, they would take it. Otherwise, I am the greatest, belongs to Ali. Thats a different sport folks.........


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## dagger (Jul 22, 2004)

*Die Blumen?*

The flowers blooming?

and worter? and gennanten I don't understand


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## ttug (May 14, 2004)

*Polish polish*



dagger said:


> The flowers blooming?
> 
> and worter? and gennanten I don't understand


In English, you have things like: Polish from Poland is called: Polish polish. In german when one says Die Blumen blumen. The flowers bloom. Words with the exact spelling but different meanings. Sorry languages used to be a hobby of mine a long long time ago.

Since I was lazy, (sorry about no umlaut) Worter (words). The phrase: so gennanten: so called. I meant to say that I was fed up with the so called world greatest etc etc. In the context given, it just does not fit. There is the problem. Jan has freakish talent, BUT no real drive. The only cyclist IMO, who had the whole package was Merckx. Drive, Genetics and a freakish training regimen. 

IF Jan really really applied himself, WATCH THE FVCK OUT. WHOAH! However, he has not. At least, not in the way Merckx did.


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## Minimalist (Apr 20, 2005)

ttug said:


> In English, you have things like: Polish from Poland is called: Polish polish. In german when one says Die Blumen blumen. The flowers bloom. Words with the exact spelling but different meanings. Sorry languages used to be a hobby of mine a long long time ago.
> 
> Since I was lazy, (sorry about no umlaut) Worter (words). The phrase: so gennanten: so called. I meant to say that I was fed up with the so called world greatest etc etc. In the context given, it just does not fit. There is the problem. Jan has freakish talent, BUT no real drive. The only cyclist IMO, who had the whole package was Merckx. Drive, Genetics and a freakish training regimen.
> 
> IF Jan really really applied himself, WATCH THE FVCK OUT. WHOAH! However, he has not. At least, not in the way Merckx did.


I have to agree with you except: "Die Blumen bluehen!" (instead of the Umlaut you can use the vowel and "e".). Sorry, couldnt help it.  But in case you are interested, this is a very good dictionary and it's free.


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## ttug (May 14, 2004)

*ooooops*



Minimalist said:


> I have to agree with you except: "Die Blumen bluehen!" (instead of the Umlaut you can use the vowel and "e".). Sorry, couldnt help it.  But in case you are interested, this is a very good dictionary and it's free.


Yes, I am interested. Its been 6 years since I have wanted to write much less speak German, for the love of God I am so embarassed. Man I am rusty! I miss it very much. I still read the usual papers and of course nobody in Germany likes cycling........  

I believe that it is the greatest frustration to watch an individual piss away talent. Especially when they have so much of it. I welcome the idea that someone gets the fact that being frustrated by the utter lack of drive of a talented athlete does not mean, hey, we have another Lance freak right here bro! 

I do appreciate the link, as it does also bring Munich to mind. I love Munich. In fact, its almost my favorite place on earth. I very much doubt that given the Arbeit Macht Frei reply that there will be fertile ground for more threads in German. SO, I guess its time for me to hit the German cycling boards lest I offend my fellow posters........


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## Minimalist (Apr 20, 2005)

ttug said:


> Yes, I am interested. Its been 6 years since I have wanted to write much less speak German, for the love of God I am so embarassed. Man I am rusty! I miss it very much. I still read the usual papers and of course nobody in Germany likes cycling........
> 
> I believe that it is the greatest frustration to watch an individual piss away talent. Especially when they have so much of it. I welcome the idea that someone gets the fact that being frustrated by the utter lack of drive of a talented athlete does not mean, hey, we have another Lance freak right here bro!
> 
> I do appreciate the link, as it does also bring Munich to mind. I love Munich. In fact, its almost my favorite place on earth. I very much doubt that given the Arbeit Macht Frei reply that there will be fertile ground for more threads in German. SO, I guess its time for me to hit the German cycling boards lest I offend my fellow posters........


No need to be emberassed. We learn British English in school and I remember asking my young, good looking co-worker at my first job in the US for a rubber (=eraser in AE). Man, was I emberassed when I found out.  

I'm not a LA fan myself but don't hate him either. He did a lot for the sport and uses his popularity for a good cause. I remember him talking very highly of Jan Ullrich a few years back. I guess he considers himselve lucky that Jan just can't seem to get his act togeteher.  BTW, Jan recently said that - allthough he doesn't know him very well - Lance is not the kind of person the public perceives him. If I remember correctly he said something like Lance likes to to party.

I don't know Munich very well but from what I remember it is very nice. As to the tasteless "Arbeit mach frei" reply, I can't stand neither the denial of the Holocaust nor the debasement (hope that's the right word) of the victims. Makes me sick. I wrote him a PM but haven't gotten any reply yet.

Anyway, feel free to send me a message if you want to practice your German.


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## Fredke (Dec 10, 2004)

MaRider said:


> just because Basso was one of the best Giro TT, doesn't mean much once you start comparing him to guys like Armstrong and Ulrich at their peak form.
> 
> I think that all hype aside, Basso still has a lot of homework to do before he can successfully challenge for grand tour win - and Ulrich has the best shot to dislodge Armstrong from top position at this year's TdF.


Basso finished ahead of Ullrich in last year's TdF. This should demonstrate that he can compete with Jan. Not necessarily beat him every time, but certainly compete enough to be a threat.

If you blame Kloden for that outcome, ask yourself whether things will be any easier for the pinkies when Vino's competing with Jan for the yellow. For my money, Ullrich is a much better rider than Basso this year, but Basso has the advantage of a coherent team with _ésprit de corps_ while T-M is all chiefs and no indians.

What makes Disco/Postal so invincible is not just Lance's gifts, but the team's discipline and as I see it, only CSC has the discipline and team-spirit to challenge Disco effectively.


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## dagger (Jul 22, 2004)

*Could not have said it better*



Fredke said:


> . For my money, Ullrich is a much better rider than Basso this year, but Basso has the advantage of a coherent team with _ésprit de corps_ while T-M is all chiefs and no indians.
> 
> What makes Disco/Postal so invincible is not just Lance's gifts, but the team's discipline and as I see it, only CSC has the discipline and team-spirit to challenge Disco effectively.


I have been saying that CSC is going to be the team too. 

Gerolsteiner also is showing cohesion, and even if Levi may not get alot of support in the mountains I think Lance is going to let him stick around and they may even work together. I think we are going to be suprised by a smaller team or two.


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## scopestuff2 (Jun 19, 2002)

*Give the guy a break ....*

Even if the quote is perfectly accurate and nothing is lost in the interpretation .... give the guy a break. We all get tongue tied, say a word or phrase we might correct later if given a chance, or reading it out of context.

Ulrich is a great cyclist. He's a great TdF rider. All he is saying is that he knows this is his last chance to beat Lance in the tour, that it seriously motivates him, and that he'll feel very good if he accomplishes the goal.

He also goes on to say that he's made his own bed, that he realizes he was not consistent in his early years, that he made mistakes that he credits to errors of judgement in his youth.

Seems to me that Ulrich is pretty much in check of his ego.




dagger said:


> "Lance has dominated the Tour for the last six years and whoever beats him is going to be the greatest," Ullrich said.
> 
> and later he said "I want to beat the best to be the best of the best. That's my motivation - this is the last chance."
> 
> ...


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## Bocephus Jones II (Oct 7, 2004)

Minimalist said:


> I don't know Munich very well but from what I remember it is very nice. As to the tasteless "Arbeit mach frei" reply, I can't stand neither the denial of the Holocaust nor the debasement (hope that's the right word) of the victims. Makes me sick. I wrote him a PM but haven't gotten any reply yet.
> 
> Anyway, feel free to send me a message if you want to practice your German.


Hey...I was on vacation last week or I would have responded sooner. Edited my post. Don't know what I was thinking when I posted that but it wasn't intended as you seem to think it was (though I can see how it would be taken that way). Offending anyone was not my intention in any event. Sorry again.


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## Minimalist (Apr 20, 2005)

Bocephus Jones II said:


> Hey...I was on vacation last week or I would have responded sooner. Edited my post. Don't know what I was thinking when I posted that but it wasn't intended as you seem to think it was (though I can see how it would be taken that way). Offending anyone was not my intention in any event. Sorry again.


Thanks, I really appreciate that. PM sent.


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