# High Cadence=Knee Pain



## borre13 (May 31, 2007)

I started riding over a year ago now. I am still riding the same bike I started with, so I'm pretty used to it now. Fitness wise, I usually ride around 100+ miles a week, with one 50+ mile ride a week. I could usually finish the 20 mile ride to work, in under 1 hour, and it is flat...ok, having said all that. I started reading about cadence, and how important, or helpful would be to keep track of it; so I got the cadence sensor for my polar comp. I noticed that usually on a 60+ mile ride, my legs would just give up. I used to run a lot, so I feel like my lungs could still keep on going, but my legs are just useless. I started trying to ride at a higher cadence, so my legs are not so beat up. I am averaging somewhere in the 90 rpm on 20 and 40 mile rides, but I started getting a pain behind one of my knees, also, I noticed that the bottom of my feet go numb, not both at the same time, but both have gone numb...
Is this something I would get used to if I keep on riding at high cadences? or should I try to get the bike fitted? I didn't change anything on my bike...I must say though, that I've been wearing the same shoes for more than a year, could wear be a cause...any help or pointers are appreciated...
sorry for the long post...:blush2:


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## Rollo Tommassi (Feb 5, 2004)

*Bike fit*

and cleat alignment.
Abide.


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## logansites (Jan 4, 2007)

smooth pedal stroke?


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## borre13 (May 31, 2007)

I think i am pedaling smoothly...and I didn't move the cleats on the shoes...I only notice pain since I try to pedal faster...


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## Kerry Irons (Feb 25, 2002)

*Bike fit*



borre13 said:


> I think i am pedaling smoothly...and I didn't move the cleats on the shoes...I only notice pain since I try to pedal faster...


Pain behind the knee suggests possibly your saddle is too high.


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## borre13 (May 31, 2007)

So it isn't something that I should just ride through right? I thought that since it was a change in the way i am riding, it would be something I would get over...I mean, I don't really know if I like the high cadence better over the lower cadence riding, but at first I did feel that I get less soured after riding...
You guys think I should just go to a shop for a fitting? is that expensive?


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## Alex_Simmons/RST (Jan 12, 2008)

Get a proper fit. Don't go to any old shop, seek out professional advice from an experience bike fitter.

You should never have pain riding, irrespective of the cadence.

It might seem expensive but if pain stops you riding.....


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## Dizzy812 (Feb 20, 2007)

. . . or seat too far back - same solution: get a fit!


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## JoelS (Aug 25, 2008)

Sounds to me like a fit issue too.


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## The Flash (May 6, 2002)

Definitely get the fit done....

Cadence is a bit of a red herring, such that everyone is different and while it is seems to always be prescribed to ride at 90-100, you might just be a person who does their best at 85. Go with what feels good....


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## zdrifter (Jul 23, 2008)

Altho not as fast as the OP (avg 16-17) I had a similar problem and resolved it in two steps ... indeed as other posters have suggested pain behind the knee (in my case only the right) can be a result of a too hi seat ... so I gradually lowered the seat (1mm increments) until it seemed 'better' (total was about 6mm), the pain persisted altho not as bad .. I then began to adjust the angle on my cleats (use SPD's) so that my foot was angled out more (again small changes until correct) .. .as a result the pain is gone .. btw my 'normal' cadence is in the low 90's (5'11"; 190; big boned) with periods of steady over 100 but have always been a spinner ... as others have said fit is critical and the adjustments are sometimes very subtle ... as with all thing tho YMMV ...
Cheers


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## borre13 (May 31, 2007)

*thanks for the pointers*

thanks for all replies...I went ahead and lower my seat a bit, and I actually got new shoes as well (I was due for new/better shoes anyway) I've only done a couple of short rides and the seat lowering seems to help the knee pain, but my feet are still getting numbish, I did these two things before getting a fit, just to go down the line of possible causes, but for sure a Professional Fit is in my future...thanks again...by the way, any one knows of a good place to go for a fit in the Los Angeles, CA area? so far I only have one lead...


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## chrisvars (Oct 26, 2008)

If your seat is too high you could be suffering from ITB Syndrome which can cause a clicking pain around the knee.


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## Fredrico (Jun 15, 2002)

*Where are your feet numb?*



borre13 said:


> thanks for all replies...I went ahead and lower my seat a bit, and I actually got new shoes as well (I was due for new/better shoes anyway) I've only done a couple of short rides and the seat lowering seems to help the knee pain, but my feet are still getting numbish, I did these two things before getting a fit, just to go down the line of possible causes, but for sure a Professional Fit is in my future...thanks again...by the way, any one knows of a good place to go for a fit in the Los Angeles, CA area? so far I only have one lead...


If it's on the ball or toes, the cleat is too far forward, and you're pedaling on your toes.

I've been noticing my right foot going numb on the ball after an hour of high intensity spinning, also some stress right behind the knee cap not felt on the left leg. So I discovered the right cleat was about 2 mm furthur forward than the left. I corrected it, and now both feet feel fine, no knee problems.

You want the ball of your foot over the pedal spindle. After you do this and establish saddle height, move the saddle forward or back so that at 3 oclock on the crank, a plum bob dropped from the boney protrusion just below your knee, falls in a vertical line to the pedal spindle. Then check the saddle height, because moving it back increases it's distance from the bb spindle, and forward shortens distance.

If you want to initiate fit, access the fit programs on the net. Wrenchscience.com has a good one. You input your measurements and it gives you saddle height and handlebar reach, among other measurements. Fit isn't rocket science. You could do it yourself. My experience is that bike shop fit expertise is all over the map, so be careful before you shell out money, to find a reputable fitter.


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## borre13 (May 31, 2007)

Thanks again for all the advice...I finally went ahead and got a fitting on Friday. We spent at least two hours adjusting and triking the bike. For starters, my seat was at least 2 inches too high, then as last noted, my cleats were right on the ball of my foot so it was a big pain inducer. Everything got adjusted a lot, inches, Seat, Bard, Stem, etc etc...
I went for a 45 mile ride with lots and lots of climbing on Saturday, right after the fit, and it was amazing how different it was. It obviously took a good while to get over the weirdness, I think I got used to the position and feel of my previous set up. But no pain... awesome. I think I even felt stronger on the climbs, but that was probably just me all exited...
Thanks guys, happy ending, and I highly recommend getting a proper fitting, even if there is no pain...


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## Alex_Simmons/RST (Jan 12, 2008)

Sounds good! Saddle 2" too high  !!!

OK, just one more little piece of advice.

After such radical adjustments, it is a good idea not to go too hard for a while. Allow the body to re-adapt to the new position before putting in the hard or long miles. A couple of weeks of normal riding without going ballistic would be good.

If you find little niggles, talk with the fit guy, if they are worth their salt, they will happily make minor mods as part of the service.

Also, over time as you develop as a cyclist, your position typically changes a little, so don't be afraid to seek their guidance from time to time.


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## borre13 (May 31, 2007)

*thanks asr...*

I was just too exited to wait to go riding...The people at the bike shop did tell me to come back, and to let them know if anything didn't feel right. Everything just felt good, so I kept on riding...


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## btinder (Aug 25, 2007)

borre13 said:


> I was just too exited to wait to go riding...The people at the bike shop did tell me to come back, and to let them know if anything didn't feel right. Everything just felt good, so I kept on riding...


Yeah don't do that, haha. Follow their advice. You got a lot of good advice on this forum too. Take it from a guy who is currently working through very annoying knee problems: take the time now to save the time later.


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## malvolio (Nov 2, 2008)

*Cadence*



Alex_Simmons/RST said:


> You should never have pain riding, irrespective of the cadence.
> 
> QUOTE]
> 
> Personal experience makes me disagree that you should never have pain riding due to cadence. I have very week knees and it is most comfy for me to be out of the saddle, mashing my pedals down at slower revs. If I get into my saddle and spin at a higher rate on any of my bikes (mtbs, commuters, road, fixie, etc - one of them has to be set up right, right?) my knees hurt a lot "underneath" the patella. So yeah, go get fitted, but listen to your body too.


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## Alex_Simmons/RST (Jan 12, 2008)

malvolio said:


> Alex_Simmons/RST said:
> 
> 
> > You should never have pain riding, irrespective of the cadence.
> ...


If you have pain from pedalling, then you either:
- have poor/inconsistent set up on all your bikes
- have pre-existing knee problems that need attention.


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