# Sachs and Dombroski Part Ways....



## JamieM (Sep 23, 2009)

Just saw this.

I know that rebranding is not uncommon in cycling. I mean, we all know that 7-Eleven and Motorola weren't riding Huffys and Calois back in the day right?

But this might be the first time I've heard of a rider and team parting ways over the matter. Especially in the midst fof such a successful season.

So, what are the opinions? Is it right for a team to allow riders to rebrand non-sponsor parts? Is it right for a rider to put their interests and success before loyalty to a team?


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## g-Bike (Jan 25, 2006)

Who knows?, it was nice to see both of them being very profesional and appreciative of each others contributions. Classy


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## CycloCross (Feb 26, 2004)

she's on another team for 2010, guess correct and win a prize!!


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## JamieM (Sep 23, 2009)

Guess? It's in the article I linked to. Looks like a privateer setup. Actually, looks a lot like Compton's old package.


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## TACSTS (Feb 4, 2004)

Luna?


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## argylesocks (Aug 2, 2004)

seems odd that someone would want to split from their sponsor mid-season, just to save a few grams on a wheelset.

also seems odd that Primus didn't want Katie this season, but was this quick to pick up Amy

more drama then reruns of 90210.


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## OnTheRivet (Sep 3, 2004)

argylesocks said:


> seems odd that someone would want to split from their sponsor mid-season, just to save a few grams on a wheelset.
> 
> also seems odd that Primus didn't want Katie this season, but was this quick to pick up Amy
> 
> more drama then reruns of 90210.


Amy is small like most women, I can see that a women racer who's trying to make a career of racing would want the lightest setup she can put together. As nice as the Sachs package is I bet she was carrying a few pounds more in bike than other front running women. If she's not racing a 15lb bike she should be....it matters a LOT when you are little


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## carlosflanders (Nov 23, 2008)

argylesocks said:


> seems odd that someone would want to split from their sponsor mid-season, just to save a few grams on a wheelset.
> 
> also seems odd that Primus didn't want Katie this season, but was this quick to pick up Amy
> 
> more drama then reruns of 90210.


Primus is a one man show. They can't afford to sponsor Katie for much more than a couple of frames. I'm sure they wanted her but Katie, as a world cup winner and world championship threat, no doubt she was looking for a lot more.


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## pretender (Sep 18, 2007)

I would like to announce that I'd be willing to consider taking Amy's spot on Sachs-RGM-Radix. e-Richie, if interested please PM.


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## argylesocks (Aug 2, 2004)

carlosflanders said:


> Primus is a one man show. They can't afford to sponsor Katie for much more than a couple of frames. I'm sure they wanted her but Katie, as a world cup winner and world championship threat, no doubt she was looking for a lot more.


yeah... good point.
best of luck to all parties involved....


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## 32and3cross (Feb 28, 2005)

JamieM said:


> Just saw this.
> 
> I know that rebranding is not uncommon in cycling. I mean, we all know that 7-Eleven and Motorola weren't riding Huffys and Calois back in the day right?
> 
> ...


Its not really kosher for a rider to swap out parts, even one picture of a rider using a non sponsor product can cost the entire team a sponsorship. Situations may vary a little depending on the product (i.e. can anyone really tell whats in a riders water bottle) but odvious things like helmets, frames, wheels etc can be a real deal breaker.


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## cyklopath (Feb 24, 2007)

The 7-Eleven situation and the Sachs situation are different. 

In the 7-Eleven situation, Huffy was the sponsor, but could not provide a bike that met the needs - and this was known on the front end. Serotta (or whomever it was) was then contacted to provide bikes. I think its a relatively safe assumption that Serotta knew his bikes would be 'rebranded' as a Huffy - That right there is the key factor. Huffy and Serotta likely had no issue with this. 

In the Sachs situation, the 're-branding' was done after the fact, and the sponsor, who believed they could provide a satisfactory product may not have been happy with Dombroski doing the re-branding. 

IMO, they are really two different situations. 

Looks like they've parted ways in a relatively positive way, so nuff said.


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## VeldrijdenAddict (Apr 29, 2008)

Bike racers can be crazy! What are we talking about here? A handful of grams. Her results would have been exactly the same on the "heavy" wheels.


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## yo mamma (Aug 10, 2009)

VeldrijdenAddict said:


> Bike racers can be crazy! What are we talking about here? A handful of grams. Her results would have been exactly the same on the "heavy" wheels.


Especially to save a few grams at the hub. Perhaps shaving a hundred or so grams at the rim might have mattered (no, not really) but unless the Cole hubs were made of lead, she made a silly choice and suffered the consequences.


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## OnTheRivet (Sep 3, 2004)

yo mamma said:


> Especially to save a few grams at the hub. Perhaps shaving a hundred or so grams at the rim might have mattered (no, not really) but unless the Cole hubs were made of lead, she made a silly choice and suffered the consequences.



Really? What consequences exactly?


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## yo mamma (Aug 10, 2009)

OnTheRivet said:


> Really? What consequences exactly?


Well, aside from losing her Sachs team sponsorship and substituting the privateer arrangements she apparently had cobbled together before hand, I don't know.


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## mpcbike (May 12, 2009)

Lets not forget she's swiching to a new bike (not steel)! While she & Sachs talked about the rims as a sticking point, I'd guess the total bike weight was 2lbs + heavier than her competition. While we could argue the "real" effect of that all day, I think it & her ability level condone a team swap if unhappy with set up. I also think the handling of it & the wording of it were done very, very well!


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## 32and3cross (Feb 28, 2005)

OnTheRivet said:


> Really? What consequences exactly?


Well I have no idea if she will suffer any but if she gets a rep as difficult to deal with it could make other teams/sponsors think twice about picking her up. I know two team managers that have told me they have passed on riders that had good results but were problems to deal with. Add t that if she been allowed to continue swapping wheels she could have lost the entire program their wheel deal.


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## Andrea138 (Mar 10, 2008)

mpcbike said:


> Lets not forget she's swiching to a new bike (not steel)! While she & Sachs talked about the rims as a sticking point, I'd guess the total bike weight was 2lbs + heavier than her competition. While we could argue the "real" effect of that all day, I think it & her ability level condone a team swap if unhappy with set up.


Yeah- when you're not tall, a heavier bike is murder when you have to lift it over the barriers. Hell, I'm 5'6," and I feel a huge difference switching from a steel to a carbon frame. I can't imagine being that short and having to run/jump with my previous bike.


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## g-Bike (Jan 25, 2006)

I am not sure about the steal to carbon frame comparison, my new custom steel frame is 3.5 lbs which it replaced an easton ultra light frame of the same weight. Unless you have some super swank carbon frame at the most it would be only one lb less.


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## Just James (Oct 24, 2008)

g-Bike said:


> I am not sure about the steal to carbon frame comparison, my new custom steel frame is 3.5 lbs which it replaced an easton ultra light frame of the same weight. Unless you have some super swank carbon frame at the most it would be only one lb less.


Agreed. Not all steel frames are heavy, especially a custom made steel frame for a very light rider. I think even one pound is a stretch here. 

Being a Sachs rider is like being part of a cult. Ritchie takes great care of his riders, is very loyal to the team sponsors, and Amy had a decision to leave for equipment preferences. I suspect that Amy and Ritchie had discussed this at length before she chose to leave the team.


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## Corndog (Jan 18, 2006)

Just James said:


> Agreed. Not all steel frames are heavy, especially a custom made steel frame for a very light rider. I think even one pound is a stretch here.
> 
> Being a Sachs rider is like being part of a cult. Ritchie takes great care of his riders, is very loyal to the team sponsors, and Amy had a decision to leave for equipment preferences. I suspect that Amy and Ritchie had discussed this at length before she chose to leave the team.



A carbon frame will easily clock in at a pound lighter than a light steel frame. Combine that with a carbon fork and you could be talking nearly a 2 pound difference in that alone. That isn't insignificant at the very top level of the sport. Throw in another half pound for wheels and you can see that it adds up. 

That said, I ride a 4.2lb steel frame (with a carbon fork though) that built up into a 16.7lb bike. I'm faster on it than my lighter carbon CX bike because it fits better


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## pretender (Sep 18, 2007)

If your livelihood depended on palmares, if you were chasing Georgia Gould every weekend, were significantly smaller than her, and knew that you were hoisting a pound or two more than her on each and every portage, damn skippy you'd be thinking of ways to shed weight off your rig. And it would be no slight on the Sachs bikes or team, it just is what it is.

The real question is, does Amy get to keep the bikes?


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## Corndog (Jan 18, 2006)

Granted, she knew these things going into the season though.... 

Just a shame that it happened midseason. At least all parties are putting on a good face. I think we're making more of a fuss about it than they are!


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## spacemanrides (Aug 11, 2006)

There are a lot more good riders than there are sponsorship dollars, RS will be fine. 
As far as Dombroski goes, it was a jit move. The pics I saw showed her using Zipp 303 weels with the Zipp decals on them. You at least have to spend the 20 minutes to remove the decals.


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## dc.cyclocross (Oct 5, 2007)

pretender said:


> <<deleted>>
> 
> The real question is, does Amy get to keep the bikes?


apparently not...

http://rscyclocross.blogspot.com/

"if you jettison the no-name wheels and begin from this weekend on to race the coles, we can forge ahead. if this doesn't resonate, all bets and deals are off and we have no alliance. if it comes to the latter, i'll expect all goods you received to be sent back to me.

nothing personal. just business atmo.

richard"


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## iktome (Aug 29, 2003)

Whatever anyone thinks of Amy's behavior, posting her emails without her permission wasn't appropriate.

(Unless she was somehow disputing events in a way that might make someone else look bad, but I haven't seen evidence of that. Of course, I haven't been paying attention to all the intricacies of this issue either.)


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## pretender (Sep 18, 2007)

pretender said:


> If your livelihood depended on palmares, if you were chasing Georgia Gould every weekend, were significantly smaller than her, and knew that you were hoisting a pound or two more than her on each and every portage, damn skippy you'd be thinking of ways to shed weight off your rig. And it would be no slight on the Sachs bikes or team, it just is what it is.


FWIW I'm not saying that Amy went about it the right way. What she did, going behind her sponsors and teams back, puts the "weenie" in weight weenie.


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## PaleAleYum (Jan 12, 2006)

pretender said:


> FWIW I'm not saying that Amy went about it the right way. What she did, going behind her sponsors and teams back, puts the "weenie" in weight weenie.


Two people I've never met, yet had a good respect for their abilities and support of cross. 

But, Amy's mistake was likely a result of youth and perhaps arrogance. I don't know her so I cannot say. I doubt she really thought this one out, as I suspect she plans on racing for years to come and doesn't want a reputation of not being a team player.

RS made a mistake in handling the PR on this one. He sure went out of his way to let the world know that his image is beyond reproach. He shouldn't have posted the private correspondence. He makes great frames and forks, fields a competitive cx team, and from most accounts is a big supporter of the sport. But, that doesn't make him infallible. 

The high road press release over the weekend should have been enough as long as both parties stuck to their story. I'm guessing that RS felt Amy was not living up to her end of their separation bargain and released the emails to show he did not draw first blood. 

Only speculation on my part, about why RS published the emails on his blog, but certainly poor form for an individual with the reputation of a solid character.


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## yo mamma (Aug 10, 2009)

PaleAleYum said:


> Two people I've never met, yet had a good respect for their abilities and support of cross.
> 
> But, Amy's mistake was likely a result of youth and perhaps arrogance. I don't know her so I cannot say. I doubt she really thought this one out, as I suspect she plans on racing for years to come and doesn't want a reputation of not being a team player.
> 
> ...


No question Amy really thinks highly of herself as evidenced by her diatribe about how hard she works, how much she sacrifices, etc... 

but, after seeing how RS handled the situation by posting all that crap on his blog, I wouldn't dream of buying one of his bikes, and frankly I wouldn't consider buying anything from any of the sponsors of his team. He has pissed in the soup and if I were in the position to pull sponsorship from his team, I would. He hasn't demonstrated near the class that I would've expected.


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## mr.president (May 4, 2009)

yo mamma said:


> No question Amy really thinks highly of herself as evidenced by her diatribe about how hard she works, how much she sacrifices, etc...
> 
> but, after seeing how RS handled the situation by posting all that crap on his blog, I wouldn't dream of buying one of his bikes, and frankly I wouldn't consider buying anything from any of the sponsors of his team. He has pissed in the soup and if I were in the position to pull sponsorship from his team, I would. He hasn't demonstrated near the class that I would've expected.



Class is standing by the people willing to put their faith in you and support what you do. Some of these relationships go back longer then AD has been racing. atmo has always stood by what he believes and puts together a program that has won at all levels and continues to. AD knew what she was getting into and there were no surprises.

What is class, is that he stood by what he believes and has made it clear to all of his sponsors that their products will be appreciated and raced to the fullest of the rider's abilities and e-richie himself. He is honest, open, and relentlessly supportive of those that have come through his program. AD chose to do what was best for her, not the team. Past riders have had no problem winning on his bikes and equipment. AD is not going to beat Compton with a carbon bike or lighter wheels.

Atmo is all class and wanting his bikes or not he has his sponsors due to how he represents himself and what he is about. Period!

Posting emails sends he true story, it is his team and business regarding his team. AD handled herself like a young person does some times. She thought about herself only and not the holistic idea of team. Not really the kind of teammate worth having atmo.


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## colinr (Nov 20, 2006)

yo mamma said:


> No question Amy really thinks highly of herself as evidenced by her diatribe about how hard she works, how much she sacrifices, etc...
> 
> but, after seeing how RS handled the situation by posting all that crap on his blog, I wouldn't dream of buying one of his bikes, and frankly I wouldn't consider buying anything from any of the sponsors of his team. He has pissed in the soup and if I were in the position to pull sponsorship from his team, I would. He hasn't demonstrated near the class that I would've expected.


Sachs has a waitlist on his frames that's years long. Dombroski had new sponsorship in a flash.

AD and RS are both near the top of their respective games, as bike racers, team managers, and framebuilders. As such, they can get with away pissing you off.


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## yo mamma (Aug 10, 2009)

mr.president said:


> Class is standing by the people willing to put their faith in you and support what you do. Some of these relationships go back longer then AD has been racing. atmo has always stood by what he believes and puts together a program that has won at all levels and continues to. AD knew what she was getting into and there were no surprises.
> 
> What is class, is that he stood by what he believes and has made it clear to all of his sponsors that their products will be appreciated and raced to the fullest of the rider's abilities and e-richie himself. He is honest, open, and relentlessly supportive of those that have come through his program. AD chose to do what was best for her, not the team. Past riders have had no problem winning on his bikes and equipment. AD is not going to beat Compton with a carbon bike or lighter wheels.
> 
> ...


We'll just have to agree to disagree. Posting the info on the blog was in my mind beneath what I would've expected.


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## ZoomBoy (Jan 28, 2004)

What I see happening here is RS setting the record straight so there is no speculation or open misinterpretation about what went down with AD. RS is a stand up guy when it comes to his team and sponsors. Period. AD's actions go beyond being particular about her equipment as is the case with Katie Compton. She comes off as being arrogant and disrespectful. I don't care about her coaching, resting etc. The deal she agreed to was to ride those wheels and she chose to go behind everyones back and do her own thing. IMO the whole email trail says alot more about AD than RS....atmo.


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## colinr (Nov 20, 2006)

ZoomBoy said:


> IMO the whole email trail says alot more about AD than RS....atmo.


If the email trail "said a lot" about RS then he wouldn't have posted it. Just sayin'.


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## spacemanrides (Aug 11, 2006)

colinr said:


> If the email trail "said a lot" about RS then he wouldn't have posted it. Just sayin'.


I don't know about that. He comes off a bit condescending , effectively calling her an idiot for not knowing how rotational weight worked...
I can't deceide if I like that he posted the email thread or not. We have all heard that we should act like the things we say and do may be printed on the front page of your local newspaper. Now that I have seen that happen it does seem like a breach of confidentiality . Having said that it leaves no gray area for me as to who is right or wrong. BTW-I believe the wait time is 52 months for a Sachs frame.


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## colinr (Nov 20, 2006)

spacemanrides said:


> I don't know about that. He comes off a bit condescending , effectively calling her an idiot for not knowing how rotational weight worked...


Yeah, but she effectively IS an idiot, for thinking that hub weight is rotational weight.

Anyway, RS surely thought about the consequences of posting it before he did. I didn't think either of them was represented too poorly in the exchange, and this way.. it's out there. Saves him a hell of a lot of explanation, plus it's BOTH sides of the story, not just his.

I can see why he'd post it.


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## Britishbane (Mar 4, 2009)

Bottom line (as I see it): RS came off as a bit of prick in the emails, which, by the way, should not have been made public. Though, I can see why he did. According to the blog posts he made it abundantly clear what he expected in terms of components to be used by the team. I think she handled the situation relatively well (I mean the email exchange with RS, not her wheel choice).


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## moonmoth (Nov 8, 2008)

colinr said:


> I can see why he'd post it.


 Not me. Whatever his disagreement may be, it's just plain wrong to post a private email. 

Learn some etiquette, RS.


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## giovanni sartori (Feb 5, 2004)

A couple points:

If AD is so worried about rotational weight she should stick to road racing where mud won't accumulate on the perimiter of tires, or I guess she could race cross in So Cal.

Second, this is all a marketing ploy by RS because who in the hell ever heard of Cole Wheels before this weekend?!


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## Corndog (Jan 18, 2006)

I see no problem with RS posting the emails. People need to realize that email is not, in anyway, a private means of communication. This is especially true of correspondence that is effectively business communications. 

She came off as whiny about the wheels, even though she knew going into the season that she would be expected to ride the sponsor equipment. RS was very matter of fact about it and she obviously made her choice as well. 

Other notes, why are they on such crap tastic wheels in the first place?  (just kidding of course, 1475 grams for the carbon tubulars isn't that bad)

Guess Sven Nys and Niels Albery should quite their teams too, since the DA 50mm tubulars are heavier than the Cole wheels that RS bought special for AD :thumbsup:


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## myette10 (Jul 20, 2003)

I can see why he posted the emails. He didn't have to give his side of the story, he gave the actual story. We all wanted to know what was going down, and now we do. 

He's also setting a clear precedent for anyone who may want to join the team in the future. The PR hit he takes with those that don't approve of the way he handled things is more than likely offset by the future gains he makes with riders and sponsors alike. 

As GW said: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eKgPY1adc0A


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## 32and3cross (Feb 28, 2005)

I don't think he should have posted the emails but after seeing a few of the interviews withe her where she clearly seems eager to bring the subject up and try and spin it I can see why he did, still think its wrong wrong wrong.

She was completely and totally in the wrong here and as some one that works with a team I can tell you shes the exact kinda of rider we try and avoid no matter what their talent level, for the simple reasons that while sponsors love it when you race well they love it 100 times more when you represent their brand well and that is what is important to them. All of our sponsors like the program we have build based on the representation when give them, the race results are far secondary, until Amy learns that she will be a potential liability to any program shes allowed on.


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## J-K (Nov 5, 2006)

32and3cross said:


> She was completely and totally in the wrong here and as some one that works with a team I can tell you shes the exact kinda of rider we try and avoid no matter what their talent level, for the simple reasons that while sponsors love it when you race well they love it 100 times more when you represent their brand well and that is what is important to them. All of our sponsors like the program we have build based on the representation when give them, the race results are far secondary, until Amy learns that she will be a potential liability to any program shes allowed on.


Well said!

Sponsoring is a 2-way commitment.

I hope for her at one point she realizes that and another thing too: Once you get over stressing about little, insignificant things, you have a lot more energy and focus left for the things that actually do influence race performance.


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## ZoomBoy (Jan 28, 2004)

The thing that gets me is that his first email RS just asked her what the deal was and her initial reaction was to start to put a spin on it instead of just fessing up and apologizing. That just rubs me the wrong way. Totally unprofessional IMO. I would not put up with this kind of BS being in cycling or in a job/employment scenario. RS was the boss. He had every right to call her out on this...


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## moonmoth (Nov 8, 2008)

Corndog said:


> I see no problem with RS posting the emails. People need to realize that email is not, in anyway, a private means of communication. This is especially true of correspondence that is effectively business communications.


 Technically, you're correct but how often do you see businesses air out their communications in verbatim? RS should have instead summarized AD's position, keeping the emails in his back pocket for potential use in court, should litigation arise. Thankfully, it doesn't sound like this is going that way.

I am no way endorsing AD's actions. She sounds somewhat immature and it looks like she got some bad advice, and make some false assumptions based on what she was seeing with other riders, like Kabush. All of the words around "body as a temple", "not socializing", and diet almost sounds like some sort of failed internal justification that she was making to herself, giving her free reign to do whatever she wanted with her bike, in spite of her sponsor.


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## JamieM (Sep 23, 2009)

In this case, I can understand RS posting the conversations ver batim. Let's be honest, if he prepared a written summary of everything the comments would focus on it being his "spin" on things. By posting the conversations, he's not telling his side of the story he's providing the evidence to let people make up their own minds.

And as far as Amy D's part in this. I have no issue with her riding re-branded wheels. But to do that with no contact with the team leadership or sponsors, she made it obvious that her focus in on herself and little else. That decision made it clear that she has little respect for her team and her sponsors. And it seems, through her attitude, that she expects to be forgiven for anything if she is still winning.

I, for one, have had enough of the win at all costs mentality.


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## iktome (Aug 29, 2003)

Corndog said:


> ...People need to realize that email is not, in anyway, a private means of communication....


That's not at all true. Email is potentially just as "private" as any other means of communication. The primary difference is that emails are automatically recorded and saved, and thus more readily subject to later disclosure (and abuse).

What if this had been a series of letters? Why would that be any different?


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## musikfan (Aug 15, 2007)

I am just not that smart sometimes


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## cogswell23 (Aug 15, 2007)

musikfan said:


> even more interesting reading on this subject.
> http://rscyclocross.blogspot.com/


You're a little late to the party bro. Did you even read the thread?


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## mtbbmet (Apr 2, 2005)

yo mamma said:


> I wouldn't dream of buying one of his bikes, and frankly I wouldn't consider buying anything from any of the sponsors of his team.


That's great. His waiting list is closed, and even if you are on it you would be waiting about 5 years for your bike. Provided you have the $4000 scratching a hole in your pocket, which you probably don't. I'm fairly certain RS does not give a damn what you would consider buying. He does not sponsor the team to attract new clinets, or get his name/bikes out there. He does because he loves the sport.


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## mtbbmet (Apr 2, 2005)

giovanni sartori said:


> Second, this is all a marketing ploy by RS because who in the hell ever heard of Cole Wheels before this weekend?!


 I'm pretty sure that Marianne Vos has heard of Cole wheels. If you followed the sport (based on the above comment I would think you don't) you would know that Vos won the cross worlds on Cole wheels.


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## Corndog (Jan 18, 2006)

iktome said:


> What if this had been a series of letters? Why would that be any different?


No. It's business correspondence period. It isn't covered by any confidentiality. AD wasn't writing a confidential letter to her doctor, lawyer, priest, shaman, husband, etc.... it's fair game. 

Obviously if she hadn't acted like a douche they wouldn't have been posted. But, you should never write a message to someone that you wouldn't want printed up in the paper, read in court, etc.


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## moonmoth (Nov 8, 2008)

Here's a picture I took of AD on Sunday at the Boulder Cup, starting her last race on an RS bike.

Zipp wheels, just like Katie Compton behind her.


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## iktome (Aug 29, 2003)

Corndog said:


> No. It's business correspondence period. It isn't covered by any confidentiality. AD wasn't writing a confidential letter to her doctor, lawyer, priest, shaman, husband, etc.... it's fair game.


Even though you've now changed your point from what is "private" to what is or might be protected either by rules of evidence or specific federal laws, you're still wrong. There are all sorts of things that you might call "business correspondence" that might be protected from disclosure in some fashion or another.

But that wasn't and isn't the point, nor is it particularly relevant to this discussion. Amy likely had the expectation that her emails would not be broadcast to the world. That expectation should have been honored. This is absolutely no different from communications between a husband and wife, or between two friends. You can post them on your blog all you want, but that doesn't mean you should.


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## giovanni sartori (Feb 5, 2004)

mtbbmet said:


> I'm pretty sure that Marianne Vos has heard of Cole wheels. If you followed the sport (based on the above comment I would think you don't) you would know that Vos won the cross worlds on Cole wheels.


That's right, unless you know of every single component that every single racer uses you don't follow the sport. Fantastic analysis. Cole wheels is not a well known brand.


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## Corndog (Jan 18, 2006)

iktome said:


> Even though you've now changed your point from what is "private" to what is or might be protected either by rules of evidence or specific federal laws, you're still wrong. There are all sorts of things that you might call "business correspondence" that might be protected from disclosure in some fashion or another.
> 
> But that wasn't and isn't the point, nor is it particularly relevant to this discussion. Amy likely had the expectation that her emails would not be broadcast to the world. That expectation should have been honored. T*his is absolutely no different from communications between a husband and wife*, or between two friends. You can post them on your blog all you want, but that doesn't mean you should.


This is a joke right? 

I haven't changed my point of view on anything. Somehow you are trying to claim that email of someone being a total knob job are private and protected from being in the public light. 

Seriously, I have no idea why you are basically defending her. Emails like that are NOTHING like correspondence between someone and their wife... pull your head out of your butt. Email between two friends is fair game. Don't write something that makes you look like a moron if you don't want it out in the public light. 

You claim to know what AD expected to be honored? That's funny.... didn't know you two were such good friends. 

I bet RS _expected_ AD to run the sponsor wheels and that she should have _honored_ that agreement :thumbsup:


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## ZoomBoy (Jan 28, 2004)

iktome said:


> Even though you've now changed your point from what is "private" to what is or might be protected either by rules of evidence or specific federal laws, you're still wrong. There are all sorts of things that you might call "business correspondence" that might be protected from disclosure in some fashion or another.
> 
> But that wasn't and isn't the point, nor is it particularly relevant to this discussion. Amy likely had the expectation that her emails would not be broadcast to the world. That expectation should have been honored. This is absolutely no different from communications between a husband and wife, or between two friends. You can post them on your blog all you want, but that doesn't mean you should.


Oh please. Get over it. You are wrong. They had a business relationship not a marriage. AD did not honor her agreement with RS and should have been cut loose on the spot IMO. Did AD tell you her expectations? How about the sponsors expectations that the team riders would race their product? Is that not valid? I do not know if there was a signed contract but lets assume there was one. Is it right that AD decided on her own to not ride the product specified in the contract thus breaking it? Not professional at all. Good luck to her. She may need it.


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## iktome (Aug 29, 2003)

Corndog said:


> ...Email between two friends is fair game. Don't write something that makes you look like a moron if you don't want it out in the public light...


If you really believe this, then nothing you could have written would better demonstrate the difference between our perspectives. If I truly have my "head up my butt" for thinking otherwise, I don't think that says anything negative about me.

There is a difference between what you can do and what you should do. I don't see how that's at all controversial, or even subject to argument. There are obviously different degrees of "should," but the distinction still remains.

And nothing about that is a defense of Amy. It's a criticism of Richard. They both screwed up in different ways. That's all.

And seriously, if you think you can post anything your "friends" say to the world without concern for whether or not it's appropriate, that's just sad. Obviously you can, but you might think a bit more about whether you should.


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## Thom H (Aug 25, 2009)

I think she was way off base doing what she did and should have been fired/cut for that.

I think RS, although I respect and honor his loyalty to his sponsors was wrong in releasing the e-mail for the world to see. I believe that any internal communications are just that meant as internal, not to be exported. I think communication/discussion between an employee/rider and their boss should be private. Much like I would expect it to be at my place of business. If I screw the pooch at work, I sure would not appreciate my boss putting my communications defending my actions in cyberland. This is business and we should all be professional about it.

Since RS is the boss/owner/director/and king daddy of the team he legally can do pretty much what he wants. Right or wrong, fair/unfair, ethical or unethical who knows. I hate to see any of that kind of crap go down, and I personally think of it as a two wrongs situation. I hope the sponsors don't see it as I do, or read the forums as it is all over the cyberland. Not good for RS, AD, the team, or cycling in general.


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## mtbbmet (Apr 2, 2005)

giovanni sartori said:


> That's right, unless you know of every single component that every single racer uses you don't follow the sport. Fantastic analysis. Cole wheels is not a well known brand.


That is correct. If you followed the sport you would know what all the best racers use. I'm not talking about some back of the pack masters racer. I'm talking about one of the best female cyclists in the world right now, across all disciplines. The first year she was world champ it was obvious what wheels she was using, as they had massive logos on them.

You know, cycling costs you knothing to watch, your enjoyment is paid for by the sponsors. You could at least make an effort to find out who uses what to repay them for allowing you to enjoy the sport. No one is asking you to buy their stuff. But I hope that no one who sponsors the sport ever reads your post.


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## pretender (Sep 18, 2007)

mtbbmet said:


> That is correct. If you followed the sport you would know what all the best racers use. I'm not talking about some back of the pack masters racer. I'm talking about one of the best female cyclists in the world right now, across all disciplines. The first year she was world champ it was obvious what wheels she was using, as they had massive logos on them.
> 
> You know, cycling costs you knothing to watch, your enjoyment is paid for by the sponsors. You could at least make an effort to find out who uses what to repay them for allowing you to enjoy the sport. No one is asking you to buy their stuff. But I hope that no one who sponsors the sport ever reads your post.


I just want to make sure I'm reading this post correctly, because to be honest it's completely bizarre to me. You are actually saying that it is a cycling fan's _duty_ to pay attention to sponsor logos?


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## mtbbmet (Apr 2, 2005)

pretender said:


> I just want to make sure I'm reading this post correctly, because to be honest it's completely bizarre to me. You are actually saying that it is a cycling fan's _duty_ to pay attention to sponsor logos?



100%.
Yes.
Glad you were able to follow that. 
I fail to see how that could be "completely bizzare". You are being provided a product for free, the least you could do is pay attention to who is supplying that product for your enjoyment.


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## giovanni sartori (Feb 5, 2004)

mtbbmet said:


> 100%.
> Yes.
> Glad you were able to follow that.
> I fail to see how that could be "completely bizzare". You are being provided a product for free, the least you could do is pay attention to who is supplying that product for your enjoyment.


http://www.mariannevos.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=8&Itemid=15

There will be a test in an hour.

Oh, and notice what company is not listed. If you were a true fan you would have known that.


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## mtbbmet (Apr 2, 2005)

Obviously your reading skills are lacking. If you were a true fan you would know that she is no longer sponsored by them, but was in the past. Like when she was world champ for the first time, 3 years ago, as my post said.
You smrt hey?


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## d2p (Jul 29, 2006)

last time i saw so many irrelevant opinions about a break up it involved 8 small children.


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## pretender (Sep 18, 2007)

mtbbmet said:


> 100%.
> Yes.
> Glad you were able to follow that.
> I fail to see how that could be "completely bizzare". You are being provided a product for free, the least you could do is pay attention to who is supplying that product for your enjoyment.


By logical extension, when should I use the bathroom if I'm watching a TV show? After all, the sponsors are paying for the programming, I really ought to pay attention to their ads, right?


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## mtbbmet (Apr 2, 2005)

pretender said:


> By logical extension, when should I use the bathroom if I'm watching a TV show? After all, the sponsors are paying for the programming, I really ought to pay attention to their ads, right?


Hardly an extension, more of a leap in logic. Maybe where you live TV is free. But I pay for mine. I don't pay to go watch a race.
But whatever, your opinion is yours, mine is mine. I feel we should at the very least pay some attention to who is putting money into the sport. And yes, I think it's our "duty". If sponsors think no one is paying attention, then why would they continue sponsoring? If they are not sponsoring, what happens to the pro level of the sport?


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## Britishbane (Mar 4, 2009)

d2p said:


> last time i saw so many irrelevant opinions about a break up it involved 8 small children.


Bam! Roasted


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## pretender (Sep 18, 2007)

mtbbmet said:


> Maybe where you live TV is free.


Why yes, I do live in the United States of America.


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## mtbbmet (Apr 2, 2005)

pretender said:


> Why yes, I do live in the United States of America.


And do they not have cable in the United States of America? Is that free? O are you using rabbit ears?


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## Dan Gerous (Mar 28, 2005)

From both Amy and Richard, I think it would have been better to keep it between themselves, state the split was due to different opinions, views or whatever blurry terms they use in press releases. For all those who didn't know Cole wheels before, now they'll know them as heavy wheels, whether it's justified or not. This might be hurting Cole much more than Amy racing on other wheels IMO.


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## jerry_in_VT (Oct 13, 2006)

d2p said:


> last time i saw so many irrelevant opinions about a break up it involved 8 small children.


+1 for POTM


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## jerry_in_VT (Oct 13, 2006)

Oh, and Cole sponsors Sunweb, that is pretty high profile.


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## yo mamma (Aug 10, 2009)

mtbbmet said:


> That's great. His waiting list is closed, and even if you are on it you would be waiting about 5 years for your bike. Provided you have the $4000 scratching a hole in your pocket, which you probably don't. I'm fairly certain RS does not give a damn what you would consider buying. He does not sponsor the team to attract new clinets, or get his name/bikes out there. He does because he loves the sport.


Wow, how about dialing down the anger a notch. You don't know me from Adam and yet you try to insult me by implying I'm poor, which is not the case. I can afford a Sachs bike, but don't for a minute think they're worth the cost. Yeah, they're great bikes, but c'mon, they're just steel bikes. I love steel bikes almost as much as anyone, but there's nothing so special about a Sachs bike aside from the name on the downtube that remotely makes 'em better than lots of other custom steel bikes that can be had for half the cost (or less). 

FWIW, I'm pretty sure that regardless of what RS thinks of what I'd consider buying, the other sponsors DO care what people think of their products. Maybe RS has all the business he can stand, but the other sponsors are in fact trying to promote their products.


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## Just James (Oct 24, 2008)

Amy is now headed to Luna for next season. Perhaps she thought she would find support from them for this cross season?


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## velociped jones (Mar 21, 2005)

didja see? myette10 got quoted by richard sachs! 

"To mine a message board post quote that appeared a day ago, "I can see why he posted the emails. He didn't have to give his side of the story, he gave the actual story. We all wanted to know what was going down, and now we do." Exactly. If you read what lived here for 48 hours, you know the facts. If you missed it, all of this becomes hearsay. I entered the fray because it was hearsay that I wanted to counter with the truth. Having done that, I have opened wounds that rival the contretemps that started all of this in the first place. For that I sincerely apologize atmo."

what does "atmo" mean?


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## pretender (Sep 18, 2007)

Take-home message from the whole ColeGate deal (for me anyways):
Richard Sachs is a classy guy, but he's also a passionate guy who values loyalty and team spirit.

Take-home message from the Cycle-Smart weekend:
Dan Timmerman is a badass.


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## ZoomBoy (Jan 28, 2004)

ATMO= According To My Opinion

IIRC, IMO etc....


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## toddre (May 17, 2004)

pretender said:


> Take-home message from the whole ColeGate deal (for me anyways):
> Richard Sachs is a classy guy, but he's also a passionate guy who values loyalty and team spirit.
> 
> Take-home message from the Cycle-Smart weekend:
> Dan Timmerman is a badass.


I was there and watched the Sunday race. I gotta split the "Bad-ass" award between Timmerman and Adam Craig. Craig was wayyyyyyyy back after that crash and road back into the top ten. :thumbsup:


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