# Vote A23 vs. Aerohead vs. OpenPro



## mikem1977 (Aug 5, 2009)

Building a new wheelset for my road bike. I weigh 215 lbs (but slowly trending down). On this particular bike, I only ride 60-100 miles/week for recreational and group rides. Prefer something fast and lively (my road bike is already a plush Synapse Carbon 5 and my commuter is a touring bike). Thus I'm being a bit of a weight weanie on this one. 

This summer I'll be running 23c Pro Race 3 tires that I already bought. (Yeah, I know 25c or wider tires are all the rage especially at my size).

Thinking either Velocity A23, Velocity Aerohead (with OC on the rear), or perhaps the oft-recommended Mavic OpenPro. 

Open Pro are probably the "safest bet", but I would kind of like to try Velocity since they are based in Michigan. Aerohead seems safe assuming they would hold up to my weight. Alot of people seem to like A23, but I can't tell if these people on the forums are running 23mm on the A23s or not...

Thoughts or votes?


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## mlm1219 (Aug 25, 2009)

I would go with the A23. Although I have never used them I have had a few different sets of the HED Belgium C2's and really like them.


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## NolesOrNothing (Aug 19, 2011)

Over the last 2 weeks I've put 215 miles on a new set of A23s with 23mm tires. I love em. The fast and lively part is going to come from your hubs and continued trend down in weight. Congratulations on that. I was right there myself and now 190.


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## mikem1977 (Aug 5, 2009)

NolesOrNothing said:


> Over the last 2 weeks I've put 215 miles on a new set of A23s with 23mm tires. I love em. The fast and lively part is going to come from your hubs and continued trend down in weight. Congratulations on that. I was right there myself and now 190.


Cool. I'm thinking to just go 32h on the front and 32h on the rear. Hopefully that doesn't "feel" too slow with these hubs, but I couldn't resist passing up on a new Ultegra 32h front hub I found for $30. I may splurge for a DuraAce rear.


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## brucew (Jun 3, 2006)

I ride 25s. I own A23 and Aerohead-Aerohead O/C wheels. I like both wheelsets, but the A23s make the tires ride a little nicer.


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## Kerry Irons (Feb 25, 2002)

*Weight weenie?*



mikem1977 said:


> I weigh 215 lbs. I'm being a bit of a weight weanie on this one.


I'm not trying to get in your face here, but worrying about 100 grams (0.1% of your total bike + rider mass) is pretty pointless. It will have zero effect on your speed whether on the flats or climbing. What will have an effect however is a wheel that lacks durability. The A23 or even DeepV is a good choice.


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## mikem1977 (Aug 5, 2009)

Kerry Irons said:


> I'm not trying to get in your face here, but worrying about 100 grams (0.1% of your total bike + rider mass) is pretty pointless. It will have zero effect on your speed whether on the flats or climbing. What will have an effect however is a wheel that lacks durability. The A23 or even DeepV is a good choice.


Yes, I agree on 100 grams (though it adds up). I built up a touring bike and didn't care about weight, and now it comes in at 30 pounds! Based on averaging dozens of rides on my 19-pound Cannondale versus the 30-pound touring bike, I am a good 2 miles-per-hour slower with the heavier bike!


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## strathconaman (Jul 3, 2003)

You should add the DT465 into the mix. It is a better manufactured rim than the Open Pro or Velocity rims. I think velocity has some good concepts, but their rims are poorly made (in my experience). The DT rims build up rounder and truer with more even spoke tension.


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## Kerry Irons (Feb 25, 2002)

*Weight and speed*



mikem1977 said:


> Yes, I agree on 100 grams (though it adds up). I built up a touring bike and didn't care about weight, and now it comes in at 30 pounds! Based on averaging dozens of rides on my 19-pound Cannondale versus the 30-pound touring bike, I am a good 2 miles-per-hour slower with the heavier bike!


On a 6% grade at 250 watts, a rider of your weight will be about 0.7 mph slower on a bike that is 30 lbs vs. 19. On the flats it would be 0.2 mph slower. If you really are 2 mph slower, then it is something way beyond weight.


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## mikem1977 (Aug 5, 2009)

Kerry Irons said:


> On a 6% grade at 250 watts, a rider of your weight will be about 0.7 mph slower on a bike that is 30 lbs vs. 19. On the flats it would be 0.2 mph slower. If you really are 2 mph slower, then it is something way beyond weight.


The 2mph is real. I have at least 5 data points of each bike doing the same ride, where I am pushing myself hard on each ride.

Could be other factors besides weight. Riding positions are different. Tires are different.

But my touring bike feels heavier/slower and is heavier/slower.

Look, if I took your road bike and added 10 pounds to the weight of the tires, I guarantee it would slow you down more than 0.7 mph!

Heck, try it yourself. Find a way to strap on 10 pounds to your road bike and see what it does.


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## Kerry Irons (Feb 25, 2002)

*Physics*



mikem1977 said:


> The 2mph is real. I have at least 5 data points of each bike doing the same ride, where I am pushing myself hard on each ride.
> 
> Could be other factors besides weight. Riding positions are different. Tires are different.
> 
> ...


You've already explained the likely reasons for the touring bike being so much slower. Just as I don't need to drop two balls off a balcony and see if the hit the ground at the same time, I don't need to strap 10 lbs of weights on my wheels to see how much slower my bike is. I have a strong faith that Isaac Newton knew what he was doing, and we have a few hundred years of experimental proof to show that.


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## mikem1977 (Aug 5, 2009)

Well I personally believe a 6500-gram wheelset would feel pretty slow ;-) On the other hand, sounds like I may as well just order that Ultegra rear hub instead of the Dura-Ace. 

One pesky thing about common applications of Newtonian physics is that the effects of wind resistance are commonly ignored. Any calculations on CX-ray Aero spokes vs. good ole double-butted?


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## Salsa_Lover (Jul 6, 2008)

mathematical explanations minimizing the impact of x or y component are as useless as emotional explanations maximizing the same impact.

There is much more complexity about the whole system bike/ride-physique/rider-psyche to quantify in this simple way.


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## RussellS (Feb 1, 2010)

DO NOT buy Mavic Open Pro rims unless you want to replace the rear rim in 3-4 years. It will crack at the eyelets on the non-drive side of the rear rim. The Aerohead is a good rim. No eyelets though. The off center rim does allow you to get more even tension in the rear. Lot of different Aerohead colors if that is important to you.


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## deadleg (Jan 26, 2005)

I really like my A23's, with White industry hubs! I think the bike corners better.


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## 251 (Nov 2, 2009)

All of the Mavic rims I've owned have been reliable, including my Open Pros. However, I'd probably go for the A23 in this case. I have some Salsa Delgato Cross rims that are almost as wide as the A23s. They have been very durable and give tyres a nice profile.

As far as weight goes, I'd ignore all of it and just get build a solid, reliable wheel. Arguing that such a small amount of weight makes a meaningful difference is ridiculous. However, if having marginally ligher wheels makes you feel better, then that's a different story.


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## m_s (Nov 20, 2007)

I think Mavic quality has gone downhill. I've seen a number of cracked open pros. On the other hand, there are a lot of them out there. I love my A23s, but I use them with cross tires most of the time.


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## Marcos_E (Dec 16, 2007)

I have to suggest AGAINST the aerohead. I have a 28h rear one that has been needed to be re-trued three times and rebuilt twice.

It's just not a very strong rim. I weigh about 175 and the thing just doesn't stay true for even one ride.


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## brawlo (Jun 16, 2011)

I have Aerohead rims on my track wheels, and A23 on my road.

I ride with 25mm tires and the A23s take them better. I put a 25mm on the track rims and the tire had a high point in the centre, not nice and rounded like on the A23s.

For that reason I would say the A23s, but if you're running 23mm tires, it may not be so different.


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## tarwheel2 (Jul 7, 2005)

Velocity A23s would be a good choice, but DT Swiss 465s should be stronger. Like others said, I would stay away from Open Pros if building a set. My last two sets of OPs destructed with about 2 years of use.

BTW, someone your size should be running 25s. It's not a matter of them being "the rage," they are just more appropriate. For someone your size, 25s would roll better, be more flat resistant, last longer and provide a more comfortable ride. This is particularly true if you go with a wider rim like the A23s.

One factor you should consider, is that you won't be able to swap wheels readily between bikes if you use A23 rims without readjusting the brakes. Not an issue if you never swap wheels, but you will be in for a rude surprise if you try it without knowing better.


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## mikem1977 (Aug 5, 2009)

tarwheel2 said:


> Velocity A23s would be a good choice, but DT Swiss 465s should be stronger. Like others said, I would stay away from Open Pros if building a set. My last two sets of OPs destructed with about 2 years of use.
> 
> BTW, someone your size should be running 25s. It's not a matter of them being "the rage," they are just more appropriate. For someone your size, 25s would roll better, be more flat resistant, last longer and provide a more comfortable ride. This is particularly true if you go with a wider rim like the A23s.
> 
> One factor you should consider, is that you won't be able to swap wheels readily between bikes if you use A23 rims without readjusting the brakes. Not an issue if you never swap wheels, but you will be in for a rude surprise if you try it without knowing better.


I ran 25 tires last year and 23 the year before. My Synapse bike is so plush that they both feel fine. I plan on running 23 tires this year simply because I was given a nice set of unopened Pro Race 3 tires! 

Any thoughts on spokes? Since 32h on the front is a lot, I'm thinking DT Revo on the front and DT SuperComp on the rear (for added strength where it matters). Or I may just go SuperComp all around.


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## strathconaman (Jul 3, 2003)

mikem1977 said:


> Any thoughts on spokes? Since 32h on the front is a lot, I'm thinking DT Revo on the front and DT SuperComp on the rear (for added strength where it matters). Or I may just go SuperComp all around.


You won't save any significant weight by going supercomp. Plus they only come in black.

In my world, 32 spoke wheels meant for daily riding are built with 14/15 double butted spokes front and rear, with brass nipples. At 215 lbs, save yourself the heartache.


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## terbennett (Apr 1, 2006)

As a larger rider, I think that you can't really go wrong with a velocity wheel. I have Deep Vs and they are freakin bombproof. I've also owned Aeroheads without any issues. OPs......Well, too many cracks at the spoke eyelets. I knoew people that swore by OPs and when I mentioned the issue, they defended that wheel. Most of those same people had the infamous crack issues and are riding other wheels. If you choose Mavic, I would recommend any number of CXP wheels over the Open Pro.... especially the CXP33. DT Swiss makes some killer wheels with the R465s are killer and well polished wheels. They show a level of quality that even Velocity can't compare to.....And it shows in the price. They aren't any more durable than a set of Deep Vs or A23s but there's that attention to detail in construction that people rave about. I would buy a workhorse like a Velocity wheel any day of the year. A23s just bring that strength at a lighter weight. Go with the A23s.


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