# Will Cannondale follow Schwinn down the tube?



## CAAD2 (Aug 3, 2011)

I was at a LBS looking at road bikes for my girlfriend over the weekend and the store owner asked what else we had looked at. Its been an extensive search so we named off a few we we looked at recently: Giant, Trek, Specialized, Bianchi, and Cannondale. He offered up his favorable opinion on each except Cannondale which in his opinion was heading down the tubes due to Dorel's ownership and that it was just a matter of time before they stop innovating and bleed the brand until its dead then start selling at Walmart like they did with Schwinn (not his exact words but close). 

As a multiple Cannondale owner and lover I hope he is wrong. 

Is it possible that Dorel will do that with Cannondale or will they keep them as a premium brand?


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## zamboni (Sep 11, 2003)

Let's hope so, Dorel can't affort to loose Cannondale.


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## eminefes (Mar 2, 2010)

Well Cannondale is certainly doing a fine job with it's newest road bikes at least. The CAAD10 is regarded as possibly the best aluminum frame around, the EVO is stupidly light, and the new Synapse is supposed to be even better/more comfortable than before (and it was already really comfy). Where's the issue?


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## tihsepa (Nov 27, 2008)

I doubt it. 

I guess I will have to hold onto my CAAD10 just in case though.


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## bikerjulio (Jan 19, 2010)

This fine Canadian company is making a clear distinction between it's bicycle brands. From their website:



> In 2004, Dorel became one of the largest marketers of recreational products in North America with its acquisition of Pacific Cycle, a leader in the design, marketing and distribution of high quality branded bicycles and other recreational products. In February 2008, Dorel purchased the Cannondale Bicycle Company and SUGOI Performance Apparel, furthering its goal to become a preeminent global bicycle company.
> 
> The Recreational/Leisure segment comprises three distinct operating divisions: The Cycling Sports Group (CSG) division which deals specifically with the Independent Bicycle Dealers (IBD) channel; the Pacific Cycle division which deals with the mass merchant and sporting goods channel; and the Apparel Footwear Group (AFG) which incorporates the SUGOI, Cannondale, GT, Schwinn, IronHorse and Mongoose apparel lines.


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## ziscwg (Apr 19, 2010)

Isn't this talked about every couple of yrs? 

Cannondale is history......blah blah blah,

They are still here.........................


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## PlatyPius (Feb 1, 2009)

I think Dorel learned its lesson with Schwinn. I hope so, at least.


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## leo santos (Nov 30, 2011)

its a clear case of segmentation, isnt it? why have many brands competing in the same market? one of them has to go hi-end, other mid end, other low end. of course Im oversimplifying tough marketing issues, but makes good sense for me. as some have pointed, cannondale has introduce a slew of top notch bikes over the last years (especially after hiring that engineer who use to work for Scott). why throw this investment down the toillet? plus, though its very arguable wheter c'dales bikes are the best, they are at least pretty fgood. as some have pointed, the caad10 is so well regarded even though not made in america anymore, and what to say of the evo and its ubber agressive price for an ultra-light frame (a fraction of cervelo r5, and a joke compared to the r5ca, and significantly less - say about a full thousand dollars - then specialized's and the european brands top frames). is this the strategy for a company doomed to submerge within the next years? yes! your LBS guy knows it all better!!


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## Drew69 (Jan 16, 2012)

I really hope they don't but this has had me concerned. Old farts still come into the shop touting schwinn and how the reviews on-line say that schwinns are still the best.


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## AvantDale (Dec 26, 2008)

Spoke to a Cannondale rep. He said that the Schwinn side is in a whole different world. They pretty much run independent of each other.


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## jan_nikolajsen (Dec 25, 2009)

We know that the CAAD and Evo are supreme bikes. Not a sign of Schwinnificatiion. 

Also take a look at their MTB line up. There's a mere two models that might appeal to an enlightened ex-Walmart'er: the RZ120 and the Trail series. The rest are pretty much expert level bikes.


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## jlandry (Jan 12, 2007)

^ Really? A $1500 bike is considered a Walmart bike now? (RZ120)


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## jan_nikolajsen (Dec 25, 2009)

Pls read my post again, jlandry. Slowly this time.


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## jlandry (Jan 12, 2007)

Why don't you explain yourself instead of being a smart-a$$?


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## djip24 (May 29, 2011)

Cannondale is still the company that invests the most in research and development every year, and I don't think they're researching ways to get into the "Walmart line"... So don't worry about it, I think you can still be proud to ride a Cannondale!


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## ziscwg (Apr 19, 2010)

jlandry said:


> Why don't you explain yourself instead of being a smart-a$$?


I think he meant the guy who thought a wally mart bike would do. Then, it broke 2nd ride but he loved mtb. So, he's out for nice rig.

I'm actually a little irked at Cannondales MTB offerings. To me, they have a hole between 120 mm and 150 mm travel bikes. To me the 150-160 mm are to big and burly. The 120 need a bit more travel for my tastes. I have a 140 mm Rize. If it were stolen or not replaceable, I'd probably be looking to Ibis or Yeti for my next frame (keeping the lefty, of course)


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## milkbaby (Aug 14, 2009)

jlandry said:


> ^ Really? A $1500 bike is considered a Walmart bike now? (RZ120)


That guy meant that there are only two frames aimed at riders stepping up from an x-mart bike, the RZ120 and Trail series. All the other Cannondale MTB are much more expensive "expert" bikes being marketed towards enthusiasts with money to burn instead of the lower tier market. Therefore, the argument is that Cannondale is mostly aimed towards the higher end market versus lower end market.

I would agree, even the least expensive road and MTB models Cannondale offer are at MSRP that would make most people say, "Why spend that much when you can get a bike for $150 at X-Mart?!?" :mad2:


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## cyclusaddictus (Dec 8, 2011)

Maybe I should wait and get my Evo Team at WalMart next year - rollback for $299.97 including a nice Bell helmet.


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## fenderfan (Nov 25, 2010)

*In one word-YES*

The title says it all. If anyone can tell me a company that brags about makes 50k frames a month (INCLUDING crap you find in walmart!) for anyone who wants to "contract" with them for the lowest price then said person needs their head checked if I'm expected to think their quality going to differentiate their "brands".

Toyota=Lexus
Honda=Acura
Nissan=Infiniti, etc you get the point

Same production line with different badge still equals same quality no matter how good or bad.


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## rlb81 (Feb 2, 2010)

fenderfan said:


> The title says it all. If anyone can tell me a company that brags about makes 50k frames a month (INCLUDING crap you find in walmart!) for anyone who wants to "contract" with them for the lowest price then said person needs their head checked if I'm expected to think their quality going to differentiate their "brands".
> 
> Toyota=Lexus
> Honda=Acura
> ...


But the frames are all made to completely different specs, from different materials etc. which greatly differentiates them. The car analogy doesn't hold up here because more than a badge differentiates the wholesale frames and the cannondale frames.


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## Dan Gerous (Mar 28, 2005)

Dorel owns Cannondale, Schwinn, GT and other brands... but designs, engineering, developpement and manufacturing are not shared. It's not just different badges like the car exemple above, they are really run as independent companies.

The reason Dorel bought Cannondale is because they didn't have a high end brand, they wanted to cover the whole spectrum of the bike market, from Wal-Mart bikes to the very top-end. Their plan for Cannondale is (and was from the day they got interested in buying them) to make the best bikes in the world. Since they bought them, Cannondale's R&D budget grew and they pretty much leave the Cannondale people that were already there do their own thing... Cannondale is pretty much run as an independent company, but with now more budget behind... and the bikes are better than ever IMO.

And note that Schwinn, GT, Mongoose have a bad reputation but got those reputation before Dorel bought Pacific. GT is even getting back up since Dorel got them but their whole bike portfolio is spread across the different layers of the market... Cannondale was, is and will stay at the top.

I met one of the Dorel bosses that was very implicated into the acquisition of Cannondale, just after they completed the deal. I really liked what he had to say about the company, their plans for it and the interest not in the Cannondale name, but in what Cannondale truly is: innovators, passionate cyclists that try to push bicycle design and engineering and make the very best products they can.

Before they closed the deal, the guy actually flew all over the US and Canada just to visit Cannondale dealers everywhere without telling them who he was just to get the feel for the company, to see what consumers and bike stores think, see and believe in Cannondales and to see who would be their partners (because Cannondale wont be sold in Club Prices and Wal-Marts).

We actually met because he read something I wrote back then and asked to meet me, to get my view on the company, on what is important for Cannondale in my opinion, to understand the soul of of the company but also of it's consumers, fans and all... He already knew pretty much everything I told him. I really think Cannondale are in good hands... much better than when they were owned by Pegasus. I told him that if they were to make a bad move, I'd come barging into his office and he replied 'I hope you will'... I didn't yet.


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## gus68 (Oct 19, 2010)

excellent input to the post.


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## mpre53 (Oct 25, 2011)

fenderfan said:


> The title says it all. If anyone can tell me a company that brags about makes 50k frames a month (INCLUDING crap you find in walmart!) for anyone who wants to "contract" with them for the lowest price then said person needs their head checked if I'm expected to think their quality going to differentiate their "brands".
> 
> Toyota=Lexus
> Honda=Acura
> ...


Those cars aren't built on the same production line. The Japanese make the Toyota/Honda/Nissan line vehicles in the US (for the US market in any event) while they still make the luxury brand vehicles in Japan.


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## ph0enix (Aug 12, 2009)

Is the LBS a Cannondale dealer? If not, I would take their opinion with a grain of salt, to say the least. So far Dorel's purchase of Cannondale has proven to be good for the company but who knows if things will continue down that path. A shift in upper management could cause a change in vision down the line. It's hard to predict what will happen. The bottom line is that they're making great bikes now and you need a bike now.


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## Wynnbb (Oct 16, 2012)

Nope it will never happen. Martin Schwartz and people at Dorel Ind. is not stupid, they didn't flushing $200 millions down the toilet to buy another Wal-mart brand, especially when they already have Schwinn and Mongoose. 

The Jekyll Ultimate, Super Six Evo, were all developed AFTER Dorel took over Cannondale. 

Cannondale is Dorel Industry's ticket into independent bicycle dealers. Dorel created a separated division within the company for Cannondale - the Cycling Sports Group. While all the wal-mart stuff is under Dorel's Pacific Cycle division. Dorel Ind.'s intension is clear, at least for the moment been, that Dorel will keep Cannondale for the high-end market. 

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/report-on-business/rob-magazine/top-1000/cyclists-are-warming-to-dorel-what-about-investors/article4267378/?page=all


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## PlatyPius (Feb 1, 2009)

And Guru. They own Guru now, too.

Of course, if you listen to Mike Sinyard from Specialized, Cannondale is already going mass-market. A few Cannondales showed up at some Costco locations in California - sold to Costco by a foreign Cannondale distributor. Dorel terminated the distributor's contract when they found out. But Specialized would have you believe that Costco will be selling Cannondale now.

Dorel owns GT also. I don't see any of those in WalMart.

I think Dorel learned its lesson with Schwinn... Schwinn is now considered a crap brand, and is almost impossible to sell at a LBS. I don't expect any other Dorel brands to pop up in WalMart, Target, etc.


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## Dajianshan (Jul 15, 2007)

I happen to ride with a few of the Cannondale guys and a few others from other Dorel holdings. I respect them for their riding prowess and also their focus on detail with the engineering. Cannondale is in very good hands as far as I can see. They have some good people and talented riders working for them.


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## Zachariah (Jan 29, 2009)

Dorel will spare NO EXPENSE to maintain Cannondale's premium image. Just like GM never cheaps-out on their flagship Corvette - Dorel will scrimp on every other brand they own, except CANNONDALE....


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## .je (Aug 25, 2012)

mpre53 said:


> Those cars aren't built on the same production line. The Japanese make the Toyota/Honda/Nissan line vehicles in the US (for the US market in any event) while they still make the luxury brand vehicles in Japan.


That may have been completely true long ago, but for may years some of the lines have been produced in the north american factories:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Honda_of_Canada_Manufacturing
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/East_Liberty_Auto_Plant
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marysville_Auto_Plant
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Toyota_Motor_Manufacturing_Canada
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Infiniti_QX56#Second_generation_series_JA60_.282004.E2.80.932010.29

Anyhoo, back to bikes, I'd love a Synapse or even a CAAD8, and I hope they sell them at Walmart next to that GMC because I still have a $50 gift card from _last _christmas.


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## NWS Alpine (Mar 16, 2012)

As mentioned all companies are pushing to claim to high end market with a brand. Specialized bought Retul to have a top of the line brand and fitting system. Cannondale now has the Guru dynamic fit unit since dorell bought guru.


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## NateDieselF4i (Sep 16, 2012)

Couple months ago I got a womans 2013 Cannondale Quick 4 for my wench. 

Was $630 (plus 10% back from REI membership) 

So far been really happy with the bike. Also my 2013 badboy shows no sigh of taking a downward spiral of quality. Although truthfully I am a big Cannondale fan. But not a blind fanboy.


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## icsloppl (Aug 25, 2009)

Lest they forget -

Cannondale's worst enemy was themselves, and the insanity of the motocross effort. They were most fortunate to have a buyer like Dorel at that point rather than a cannibalistic Chinese concern. If the new owners can keep them from a suicidal divergence like that again they've done well IMO.


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## TonynTX (Sep 6, 2009)

When I was looking to replace my 06 Specialized Enduro I decided to look at a few other bikes...I have always rode Specialized for years...After looking at Trek and Giant I went to a shop that carried Cannondale...I had not really even thought of Cannondale...read some of the bad rap they got because of the new owning group...I ended up getting the Moto Carbon...best mountain bike I have ever owned...the thing has been solid and I honestly have never enjoyed a mountain bike so much.

My last cross bike I purchased was a Cannondale and I am thinking my next road bike will be one as well unless things change..the bikes seem solid and Cannondale as a company from a consumer seems solid to...I hope they keep going in the direction they seem to be headed.


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