# Paris Roubaix crash



## spookyload (Jan 30, 2004)

Here is the first crash video up so far with the fan crash. The fans were not hanging out trying to get attention, just standing on the side of the road. Vandenbergh was definitely responsible for this crash. He was riding the gutters and paid the price of taking the chance.


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## cda 455 (Aug 9, 2010)

Sliding on those cobble stones has to hurt :eek6: !


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## spookyload (Jan 30, 2004)

I was thinking the same thing. He will have some sick bruises tomorrow.


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## superg (May 9, 2010)

In a different category (as in nobody else's fault but his), how about poor Yoann Offredo's crash ? Anyone remembers "Ca plane pour moi" ?


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## spookyload (Jan 30, 2004)

superg said:


> In a different category (as in nobody else's fault but his), how about poor Yoann Offredo's crash ? Anyone remembers "Ca plane pour moi" ?


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## atpjunkie (Mar 23, 2002)

spookyload said:


>


that sign could have cut deep into his leg, he was very lucky


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## atpjunkie (Mar 23, 2002)

spookyload said:


> Here is the first crash video up so far with the fan crash. The fans were not hanging out trying to get attention, just standing on the side of the road. Vandenbergh was definitely responsible for this crash. He was riding the gutters and paid the price of taking the chance.


Vandenbergh crashed from a momentary lapse of focus due to bleeding out ones eyeballs. He was on the limit just trying to stay on. Long day out front


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## Cinelli 82220 (Dec 2, 2010)

atpjunkie said:


> that sign could have cut deep into his leg, he was very lucky


He's lucky he didn't land face first...or crack his skull!
Glad he seems okay. That was an epic crash.


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## evs (Feb 18, 2004)

Vandenbergh slid for quite a bit. He must be taking a few ibuprofen by now. His front wheel really got juked. Dang that looks like it hurt and he still finished 20th.


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## RRRoubaix (Aug 27, 2008)

Having watched it 10X or so, I think both Vandenburgh AND the spectator were responsible- all the other spectators jumped back at the speedy approach... except for one guy who wasn't quite on the ball. Combined w/ a hypoxic rider, **** happened.

The crash I really want to dissect is Styby's!


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## evs (Feb 18, 2004)

Go to 2:31:30 and you see something slide across the road after he gets ejected sideways. Someone said it was a telephoto lenses. To bad for him, the others in front of him made it unscathed. A chance you take for riding the gutter.

Paris - Roubaix 2013 - FULL RACE - Compiègne


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## foto (Feb 7, 2005)

I disagree, the gutters are legit and the spectators shouldn't be standing in them.

Personally, I would rather crash on cobbles than on tarmac.


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## atpjunkie (Mar 23, 2002)

foto said:


> I disagree, the gutters are legit and the spectators shouldn't be standing in them.
> 
> Personally, I would rather crash on cobbles than on tarmac.


exactly
it doesn't hurt to take 2 steps back


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## Bullvine (Sep 9, 2009)

foto said:


> I disagree, the gutters are legit and the spectators shouldn't be standing in them.
> 
> Personally, I would rather crash on cobbles than on tarmac.


I respectfully disagree with your disagreement 
It's ride the cobbles not the gutters it's a known hazard to ride the gutters no mystery there. He paid his money and made his choice unfortunately it didn't work out. I do however feel bad for him crashing he was having a hell of a good race.

Anti-bump gutter... You go fast on bike? Bike goes in the Gutter? You go in the Gutter? Hazards in the Gutter? Our hazards [Hooper nods]

Quint: [he sarcastically sings] Farewell and adieu to you fair Spanish ladies. Farewell and adieu you ladies of Spain. For we've received orders for to sail back to Boston. And so nevermore shall we see you again.


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## evs (Feb 18, 2004)

Not sure if thats directed to me but I agree it is legit to be in the gutters riding. It's also a chance that some noob will be in the way even if they shouldn't be there. Here's a great shot from steephill split seconds after that happened. You'll have to scroll down to see it and read the caption. From were the spectators feet are as he fell backwards , the fan was in the wrong place at the wrong time. I'd feel like crap if I caused a rider to do that. It is interesting that the other 2 riders ahead of him made it by. I'll have to go back and look it closer in the video.
2013 paris-roubaix photos page-03




foto said:


> I disagree, the gutters are legit and the spectators shouldn't be standing in them.
> 
> Personally, I would rather crash on cobbles than on tarmac.


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## foto (Feb 7, 2005)

Bullvine said:


> I respectfully disagree with your disagreement
> It's ride the cobbles not the gutters it's a known hazard to ride the gutters no mystery there. He paid his money and made his choice unfortunately it didn't work out. I do however feel bad for him crashing he was having a hell of a good race.
> 
> Anti-bump gutter... You go fast on bike? Bike goes in the Gutter? You go in the Gutter? Hazards in the Gutter? Our hazards [Hooper nods]
> ...


Is it fair for me to disagree with your disagreement of my disagreement? It's not ride the cobbles, is get to Roubaix. Hazards in the gutter shouldn't include mouthbreathers, imho...


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## foto (Feb 7, 2005)

evs said:


> Not sure if thats directed to me but I agree it is legit to be in the gutters riding. It's also a chance that some noob will be in the way even if they shouldn't be there. Here's a great shot from steephill split seconds after that happened. You'll have to scroll down to see it and read the caption. From were the spectators feet are as he fell backwards , the fan was in the wrong place at the wrong time. I'd feel like crap if I caused a rider to do that. It is interesting that the other 2 riders ahead of him made it by. I'll have to go back and look it closer in the video.
> 2013 paris-roubaix photos page-03


If you look at that photo series, interesting to note that in the orchies sector, no one was standing in the gutter. They were all standing in the grass.

On the carrefour sector, people were standing directly on the cobbles.


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## evs (Feb 18, 2004)

*From the video it was hard to tell*

what happened but if you look close right when the incident happened the road narrows. You see Vandenbergh move over. In the pic it looks like the gutter ended. But the fans feet were in the gutter right before it ended. Right were Vandenbergh moved over is were Stybar got ejected. To bad he had the wind taken right out of his sails. It must have been a close call for Spartacus. Alot of crazy fans lining the road right there.


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## spookyload (Jan 30, 2004)

Those fans are well disciplined compared to the climbs at the tour. How many riders are in this photo? My point is, it is part of the sport and is accepted. 99.9% of the time it isn't a factor. Sucks for these guys at PR, but it is accepted. Fans pay the bills. No bucks, No Buck Rogers.

View attachment 278601


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## foto (Feb 7, 2005)

why are there fences on Arenberg?

Also, big difference between a 10 - 14mph tour climb, and doing 28 mph on cobbles, and spectators do cause problems for riders on the climbs, more than just when they cause crashes.


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## TerminatorX91 (Mar 27, 2011)

foto said:


> I disagree, the gutters are legit and the spectators shouldn't be standing in them.
> 
> Personally, I would rather crash on cobbles than on tarmac.





atpjunkie said:


> exactly
> it doesn't hurt to take 2 steps back


I agree.


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## thechriswebb (Nov 21, 2008)

I agree with the sentiment that the fans could take a couple of steps back. One of the things I love about pro cycling is that one gets to see it so close. Fans can be very inconsiderate though or just plain unaware. The gutters are completely legitimate and it is known that riders use them. Standing in the gutters is stupid and crowds riders who have been in the saddle for over five hours at race pace and exhausted to the point of not being able to see straight. Unacceptable.


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## DZfan14 (Jul 6, 2009)

Cancer Boy used to ride close to the side of the road intentionally in order to get people off his wheel. The riders know the risks. That's partly why he crashed in 2004 on Luz Ardiden I believe.


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## spookyload (Jan 30, 2004)

They can't fence all 50 kilometers of cobbles in Paris Roubaix. They fence the most popular areas. Contrary to popular belief, folks don't drive from all over Europe to stand on a random road side. No need for fencing through every section. This was an unfortunate event. If it had been wet, they wouldn't ride in the gutters because the mud is very hard to ride in. You wouldn't believe the coordination it takes to suspend train service along the route. A few famous incidents of closed train crossings over the last few years have finally helped that happen. If they do decide to fence all of the cobbled sections for some reason, the fencing would be in the gutters. So no, the gutters would not be part of the course. Another reason I can see for no fencing is the hazard of crashing into a fence could be devastating, especially in a turn.


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## foto (Feb 7, 2005)

carrefour is one of the most popular sections. What's it going to take before they make the race safer? A paralization or a death from colliding with a spectator?

It's obvious that spectators need to be kept clear of the race.


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## spookyload (Jan 30, 2004)

Truly the best part of this thread is people who have never stepped foot on a race course in Europe are guessing at what it should be like. This isn't a downtown crit. This isn't the USA. These are races that have been going on for over a century in most cases. They have traditions. Don't try to make this a closed NASCAR behind the barriers style event to attend. Being able to get close to the athletes is what is about. I know that when you watch a crit downtown the course marshalls make sure you don't step off the sidewalk. It isn't the same when the race goes across your country every year covering hundreds of kilometers. These aren't noob fans who know nothing about cycling. Belgians love the sport with more passion that compares to Americans with football. As much as we are trying to turn cycling into a sport where you have to pay to watch it live, that isn't what spectating in Europe is about. The riders know the deal and make risky decisions based on that. They often fail. They get up and dust themselves off, and continue racing. DZfan is there and can attest to the fans and their knowledge of spectating. They know the deal at races there.


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## Cinelli 82220 (Dec 2, 2010)

*Fences in Arenburg*

They were to keep the riders on the cobbles and off the smoother ground.

They had nothing to do with the spectators.


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## foto (Feb 7, 2005)

Cinelli 82220 said:


> They were to keep the riders on the cobbles and off the smoother ground.
> 
> They had nothing to do with the spectators.


Then why aren't the spectators allowed on both sides of the forest of Arenberg section? Why are only cops on one side?


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## foto (Feb 7, 2005)

spookyload said:


> Truly the best part of this thread is people who have never stepped foot on a race course in Europe are guessing at what it should be like. This isn't a downtown crit. This isn't the USA. These are races that have been going on for over a century in most cases. They have traditions. Don't try to make this a closed NASCAR behind the barriers style event to attend. Being able to get close to the athletes is what is about. I know that when you watch a crit downtown the course marshalls make sure you don't step off the sidewalk. It isn't the same when the race goes across your country every year covering hundreds of kilometers. These aren't noob fans who know nothing about cycling. Belgians love the sport with more passion that compares to Americans with football. As much as we are trying to turn cycling into a sport where you have to pay to watch it live, that isn't what spectating in Europe is about. The riders know the deal and make risky decisions based on that. They often fail. They get up and dust themselves off, and continue racing. DZfan is there and can attest to the fans and their knowledge of spectating. They know the deal at races there.


I am sure there are no Belgian fans upset about the spectator collisions on sunday.


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## Shaba (Mar 16, 2011)

spookyload said:


> Truly the best part of this thread is people who have never stepped foot on a race course in Europe are guessing at what it should be like. This isn't a downtown crit. This isn't the USA. These are races that have been going on for over a century in most cases. They have traditions. Don't try to make this a closed NASCAR behind the barriers style event to attend. Being able to get close to the athletes is what is about. I know that when you watch a crit downtown the course marshalls make sure you don't step off the sidewalk. It isn't the same when the race goes across your country every year covering hundreds of kilometers. These aren't noob fans who know nothing about cycling. Belgians love the sport with more passion that compares to Americans with football. As much as we are trying to turn cycling into a sport where you have to pay to watch it live, that isn't what spectating in Europe is about. The riders know the deal and make risky decisions based on that. They often fail. They get up and dust themselves off, and continue racing. DZfan is there and can attest to the fans and their knowledge of spectating. They know the deal at races there.


Amen Spooky! After the race Vandenbergh blamed himself for the crash: "I was just on the side of the road, and a spectator was lined up in front of me, " Vandenbergh said. "So I hit him and I crashed, and that's that. I chose the side and not the cobblestones. I was too close to the spectators and I crashed."


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## foto (Feb 7, 2005)

Shaba said:


> Amen Spooky! After the race Vandenbergh blamed himself for the crash: "I was just on the side of the road, and a spectator was lined up in front of me, " Vandenbergh said. "So I hit him and I crashed, and that's that. I chose the side and not the cobblestones. I was too close to the spectators and I crashed."


hehe, I guess it depends on which Vandenbergh you ask:



> "With the two of us there, many things were possible. About the outcome... for me personally, I'm really disappointed. I rode at the side of the road and hit a spectator. It was both my mistake as it was that of the spectator; he probably didn't see me coming."


Collisions With Spectators Cost Vandenbergh And Stybar Paris-Roubaix Podium Spots | Cyclingnews.com


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## thechriswebb (Nov 21, 2008)

spookyload said:


> Truly the best part of this thread is people who have never stepped foot on a race course in Europe are guessing at what it should be like. This isn't a downtown crit. This isn't the USA. These are races that have been going on for over a century in most cases. They have traditions. Don't try to make this a closed NASCAR behind the barriers style event to attend. Being able to get close to the athletes is what is about. I know that when you watch a crit downtown the course marshalls make sure you don't step off the sidewalk. It isn't the same when the race goes across your country every year covering hundreds of kilometers. These aren't noob fans who know nothing about cycling. Belgians love the sport with more passion that compares to Americans with football. As much as we are trying to turn cycling into a sport where you have to pay to watch it live, that isn't what spectating in Europe is about. The riders know the deal and make risky decisions based on that. They often fail. They get up and dust themselves off, and continue racing. DZfan is there and can attest to the fans and their knowledge of spectating. They know the deal at races there.


I am not advocating fencing 60k of pave. I know that would be impractical. I just hate it when crashes are caused by spectators. I just wish that they wouldn't stand in the gutters and I suspect that the riders would prefer that too, just like they would prefer to not be surrounded by drunken shenanigans on a difficult climb. 

I don't think that this has anything to do with who is from Belgium or who is from the USA.... fans get in the way in the higher profile American races too; not all races in the USA are crits with barriers. I also don't think this has anything to do with someone being a noob fan or not. Often the risky fan behavior is associated with alcohol consumption, which can cloud the judgment of even the most experienced and proficient European cycling fan (talking about the issue in general and not necessarily this specific crash). 

Thank God American football fans can't stand on the sidelines and run down the football field with their favorite players  

Again, I am not proposing changes. I just wish that some fans would be a little bit more aware. 

I also think that sometimes the idea of "tradition" is used to perpetuate a lot of silliness. 

(This entire post is spoken in a non-accusatory tone and is just a collection of speculative thoughts) :thumbsup:


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## ukbloke (Sep 1, 2007)

Some of those fans were nuts - crashes were inevitable. Unacceptable fan behavior. This shot is just after Stybar got hit and was starting to deflect across the cobblestones. You can see that Vanmarcke was swerving to avoid a different fan just down the road. It is a miracle that the guy didn't take out Vanmarcke and Cancellera. If that wasn't enough he then does the same idiotic jump out into the following motorcycle. I think someone was pulling him back just in time.

View attachment 278625











And what about the steephill picture - to get that shot the camera has to be out right in front of the riders too.


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## cda 455 (Aug 9, 2010)

thechriswebb said:


> I am not advocating fencing 60k of pave. I know that would be impractical. I just hate it when crashes are caused by spectators. I just wish that they wouldn't stand in the gutters and I suspect that the riders would prefer that too, just like they would prefer to not be surrounded by drunken shenanigans on a difficult climb.
> 
> I don't think that this has anything to do with who is from Belgium or who is from the USA.... fans get in the way in the higher profile American races too; not all races in the USA are crits with barriers. I also don't think this has anything to do with someone being a noob fan or not. Often the risky fan behavior is associated with alcohol consumption, which can cloud the judgment of even the most experienced and proficient European cycling fan (talking about the issue in general and not necessarily this specific crash).
> 
> ...


:lol: :lol:


I was thinking the same thing too!


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## WellUmm (Apr 6, 2013)

This whole thing reminds me of footage from group B rallying in the 80's. The entire crowd would be in the road and spread as the cars came by at nearly 100 mph. To be honest, I think crowd control in cycling is better than it was for rally.


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## foto (Feb 7, 2005)

ukbloke said:


> Some of those fans were nuts - crashes were inevitable. Unacceptable fan behavior. This shot is just after Stybar got hit and was starting to deflect across the cobblestones. You can see that Vanmarcke was swerving to avoid a different fan just down the road. It is a miracle that the guy didn't take out Vanmarcke and Cancellera. If that wasn't enough he then does the same idiotic jump out into the following motorcycle. I think someone was pulling him back just in time.
> 
> View attachment 278625
> 
> ...


I think those pictures from steephill are taken by some person named sirotti who is on a motorbike.


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## ukbloke (Sep 1, 2007)

foto said:


> I think those pictures from steephill are taken by some person named sirotti who is on a motorbike.


That would make sense, though I couldn't figure out how the shot could have been taken with that perspective without the idiot being in the picture.


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## atpjunkie (Mar 23, 2002)

foto said:


> I am sure there are no Belgian fans upset about the spectator collisions on sunday.


for both Stijn and Zdenek. Zdenek has essentially 'honorary Belgian; status in that country. He has lived there, speaks the language and has rode for Belgian Teams (Now OPQS and Fidea Tel Net before that)


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## ukbloke (Sep 1, 2007)

ukbloke said:


> That would make sense, though I couldn't figure out how the shot could have been taken with that perspective without the idiot being in the picture.


Ahah, that one photo is credited by SteepHill to Reuters, not to Sirotti. I think the photographer and the camera is visible in that video image just to the left of the idiot - looks like someone holding a big camera with 2 hands. I think my capture is almost at the moment that the picture was taken. The idiot is to the right of the camera and out of shot. I'll check it out on the HD video some time.


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## DZfan14 (Jul 6, 2009)

I wish I were still there. I PCSd in January. Never had a chance to ride the Roubaix Sportive. Work was too intense, major bummer.


But you said is spot on. This is a tough sport, and chance and risk are part of it!



spookyload said:


> Truly the best part of this thread is people who have never stepped foot on a race course in Europe are guessing at what it should be like. This isn't a downtown crit. This isn't the USA. These are races that have been going on for over a century in most cases. They have traditions. Don't try to make this a closed NASCAR behind the barriers style event to attend. Being able to get close to the athletes is what is about. I know that when you watch a crit downtown the course marshalls make sure you don't step off the sidewalk. It isn't the same when the race goes across your country every year covering hundreds of kilometers. These aren't noob fans who know nothing about cycling. Belgians love the sport with more passion that compares to Americans with football. As much as we are trying to turn cycling into a sport where you have to pay to watch it live, that isn't what spectating in Europe is about. The riders know the deal and make risky decisions based on that. They often fail. They get up and dust themselves off, and continue racing. DZfan is there and can attest to the fans and their knowledge of spectating. They know the deal at races there.


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