# Benefits/differences of "women's bikes"?



## RJP Diver (Jul 2, 2010)

My wife is deciding to get into road cycling, finally. Starting to look at bikes for her and she's asking me "what's different about women's bikes" and other than "prettier colors and smaller, with a women's seat" I was wondering if folks could school me on the finer points. 

Of course I can read all the marketing stuff on each manufacturer's website, but was hoping for more easily digestible/practical discussion.

Thanks in advance - Ray


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## spdntrxi (Jul 25, 2013)

generally legs vs upper body proportions are different (shorter torso) so you get things like shorter top tube, etc. My wife is really short so a women's bike made sense. She now has a 44cm Ruby Comp Compact and it fits her quite well.


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## love4himies (Jun 12, 2012)

They generally come in smaller sizes, will have narrower handlebars and are different colors. I am 5'3" and have not had a need for a women's bike, but have had to change to a shorter stem and narrower handlebar. 

As for saddle, I've always switched it to a higher end one anyways, so never cared what came with the bike.


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## QuiQuaeQuod (Jan 24, 2003)

spdntrxi said:


> generally legs vs upper body proportions are different (shorter torso) so you get things like shorter top tube, etc.





love4himies said:


> They generally come in smaller sizes, will have narrower handlebars and are different colors.


And I would add sometimes short reach brakes.

But sometimes there really is little difference. It's just marketing and a wider saddle (often on lower end bikes).

So, narrower bars, shorter reach brakes, shorter top tube and/or stem, women's saddle, colors. Any or all of those could be the difference. In extreme cases, you might end up with a smaller front wheel on really small frames, as Terry does. On some models, or at least I assume they still do that.

FWIW, my wife fits small men's bikes better than women's bikes. Saddle swapped, and she is good to go. Because everyone is not average.


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## Alfonsina (Aug 26, 2012)

Women, like men, are all different. I am 5'3" with 32 inseam (real not pant) and I don't ride a womens bike. My little female friends who don't ride much all have womens bikes though (in their garages). Mostly I think it is marketing unless you are very petite. What seems more important is to know what sort of bike (geo) you want and what sort of riding you will do. Saddles and stems and bars can all be tweaked. If your wife wants a bike, she should own the process and do the research herself. There is plenty of reading out there. Relying on blokes who ride seems to be fraught with danger.


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## tednugent (Apr 26, 2010)

spdntrxi said:


> generally legs vs upper body proportions are different (shorter torso) so you get things like shorter top tube, etc. My wife is really short so a women's bike made sense. She now has a 44cm Ruby Comp Compact and it fits her quite well.


Basically that... with the colors more for women's tastes.

Back to the OP.....
All this means is women have greater choice of bikes. They have women's specific bikes and the "unisex" bikes to choose from.


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## Camilo (Jun 23, 2007)

Some say it's just marketing and that you can get the same fit on a regular frame. No argument from me. Especially when it comes to graphics/colors, although I've noticed in the past few years, there might be color differences, but they've largely gotten away from obvious "feminine" colors.

However, what the WSD offers which I think is of value is a combination of features that are tweaked toward a woman rider - with their generally different body proportions and generally different stature/size. All of these things have already been mentioned, but my point is that they can all be duplicated on almost any frame you want, but with a WSD, they come in a package that might be closer to what's needed, rather than having to tweak and swap parts quite as much after the purchase.

I say why not? Women are different, why not start with a bike designed for that and go from there. Not essential, but good marketing for two reasons: one it appeals psychologically (and don't claim men don't buy psychologically too!), and two, it actually better meets a generalized functional need.

Based by my living among and advising and outfitting the bicycling needs of a wife and two daughters!


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## vmps (Feb 15, 2013)

Some women will fit better on a WSD, some won't--it's really a body type thing, not a gender thing. It actually sucks for guys that could use the WSD dimensions that they call it "woman-specific" rather than some gender neutral phrase.


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## RJP Diver (Jul 2, 2010)

Alfonsina said:


> If your wife wants a bike, she should own the process and do the research herself. There is plenty of reading out there. Relying on blokes who ride seems to be fraught with danger.


I hear ya... The problem is she doesn't think she needs/wants a road bike. She says she wants to start riding, and has a little bit, but she thinks...

a.) her current bike is fine (a 20yr old mountain bike)
b.) she isn't sure she'll stick with it because she doesn't seem to enjoy it (because it's such hard work, because she "can't get comfortable on the bike" etc)

Trying to convince her that part of her lack of enjoyment is the fact that she's riding the wrong bike. She's now open to that idea, but I need to get her in front of the right bike.

She also can't see a need to spend more than $500 or so on a bike. Fortunately she's been talk to someone she works with who explained/convinced her that I'm correct when I tell her that she really should spend about three times that - at minimum - for an entry level bike. We'll probably hit a bike shop this weekend to look at a few things. (Of course I can't take her to "my" LBS... as she'll see how much my Cervelo cost!)


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## NJBiker72 (Jul 9, 2011)

Local shop here was selling the Giant Avail a couple of weeks ago for 420. I think it was the absolute bottom of the line but its the same price I got my daughter her fitness road bike for back in spring. I think that was a Revel W.


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## love4himies (Jun 12, 2012)

I started on a 20 year old mountain bike, then one day somebody on a TT bike passed me like I was standing still and I got mad, went to my LBS with NO clue about road bikes and told the owner my story. He got out a nice road bike and told me to take this baby for a test ride. I did and haven't touched my mountain bike for years. I couldn't believe the difference. Maybe she just needs to test ride a nice bike to see the difference for herself.

I would take her to the bike store that you trust the most that will do what's right for her. It sounds like for her to enjoy the sport, she's got to like her equipment. I, being the same way, wouldn't go too low end, because she may just hate it and quit, or you'll be upgrading in a year. Maybe they can have a few bikes in her size ready for her to try. And unless she's really petite, I wouldn't limit to just WSD bikes (I personally hate the colour of most of them). Once she tries one, she's going to love the speed she can get for so much less effort.


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## Alfonsina (Aug 26, 2012)

I started on a 20 yr old MTB bike too. Again, I have friends with great bikes that sit in their garages, some due to over enthusiastic partners. If she is meh about the process I think you should step away.


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## tlg (May 11, 2011)

RJP Diver said:


> She also can't see a need to spend more than $500 or so on a bike. Fortunately she's been talk to someone she works with who explained/convinced her that I'm correct when I tell her that she really should spend about three times that - at minimum - for an entry level bike.


$1500 minimum for an entry level bike? 
You can do much better than that for an entry level bike.

SYNAPSE WOMEN'S 8 2300 - Synapse Alloy - Performance Road - Women's - Bikes - 2013


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## irish (Apr 8, 2004)

Rent a quality bicycle that fits her properly for the day. Most bike shops will apply rental fees to the purchase price. That way she can see the real difference from a 20year old mountain bike.

And don't turn the ride into a sufferfest either on the first time. It needs to be about her needs and making sure she enjoys it.


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## RJP Diver (Jul 2, 2010)

tlg said:


> $1500 minimum for an entry level bike?
> You can do much better than that for an entry level bike.
> 
> SYNAPSE WOMEN'S 8 2300 - Synapse Alloy - Performance Road - Women's - Bikes - 2013


Shimano 2300 drive train, Maddux rims, and no-name OEM brakes?

Bring it up to 105 and comparable stuff and you're at... wait for it... $1,550.

To me, that's entry level for anyone trying to ensure they don't need to buy their second bike within months of buying the first one.


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## RJP Diver (Jul 2, 2010)

irish said:


> Rent a quality bicycle that fits her properly for the day. Most bike shops will apply rental fees to the purchase price. That way she can see the real difference from a 20year old mountain bike.
> 
> And don't turn the ride into a sufferfest either on the first time. It needs to be about her needs and making sure she enjoys it.


A riding buddy's wife has offered to lend her Madone to my wife. Hoping that does the trick... without pushing her too far into $$$.


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## vmps (Feb 15, 2013)

RJP Diver said:


> Shimano 2300 drive train, Maddux rims, and no-name OEM brakes?
> 
> Bring it up to 105 and comparable stuff and you're at... wait for it... $1,550.
> 
> To me, that's entry level for anyone trying to ensure they don't need to buy their second bike within months of buying the first one.


The idea that you need to upgrade to 105 for your first road bike is absurd.


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## RJP Diver (Jul 2, 2010)

vmps said:


> The idea that you need to upgrade to 105 for your first road bike is absurd.


That's right. That's why you should buy your SECOND bike FIRST.

At some point, you could say my wife doesn't "need" to upgrade from her mountain bike I suppose.


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## love4himies (Jun 12, 2012)

RJP Diver said:


> Shimano 2300 drive train, Maddux rims, and no-name OEM brakes?
> 
> Bring it up to 105 and comparable stuff and you're at... wait for it... $1,550.
> 
> To me, that's entry level for anyone trying to ensure they don't need to buy their second bike within months of buying the first one.


At minimum tiagra. That's what I started with and any lower I would have hated them. OK, I didn't really like the tiagras, but they were adequate.


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## love4himies (Jun 12, 2012)

RJP Diver said:


> A riding buddy's wife has offered to lend her Madone to my wife. Hoping that does the trick... without pushing her too far into $$$.


Are they close in size?


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## vmps (Feb 15, 2013)

RJP Diver said:


> That's right. That's why you should buy your SECOND bike FIRST.
> 
> At some point, you could say my wife doesn't "need" to upgrade from her mountain bike I suppose.


The idea that upgrading to 105 is comparable to moving from an ill fitting mtb to a properly sized road bike is also absurd. You're on an Internet bike forum, I get it, there's some self selection going on. It's still ridiculous to suggest that someone who doesn't even know if they'll really like a road bike needs to start out at such a high level. Shimano's entry level stuff is perfectly serviceable, and the new claris shifters are functionally identical to the higher lines. Bike geeks can point out the differences, but a non-enthusiast won't care. So if you want to spend the money, fine, but be clear it's because you want to, not because it's necessary. Might even make her less comfortable if she thinks she's on a crazy expensive bike and can't relax.


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## irish (Apr 8, 2004)

vmps said:


> The idea that upgrading to 105 is comparable to moving from an ill fitting mtb to a properly sized road bike is also absurd. You're on an Internet bike forum, I get it, there's some self selection going on. It's still ridiculous to suggest that someone who doesn't even know if they'll really like a road bike needs to start out at such a high level. Shimano's entry level stuff is perfectly serviceable, and the new claris shifters are functionally identical to the higher lines. Bike geeks can point out the differences, but a non-enthusiast won't care. So if you want to spend the money, fine, but be clear it's because you want to, not because it's necessary. Might even make her less comfortable if she thinks she's on a crazy expensive bike and can't relax.


There's a lot a trade-off's involved. For my significant other, I got her a previous year's REI Carema Pro for $900. This had 105 shifters/derailleurs, Tekro brakes, and a crummy wheelset. (plus a seat that was more of a torture device than anything else, but that's a different subject). I wanted something that was good enough, but not come across as cheap. I also didn't want to spend too much such that if she didn't like road-biking I'd have dropped more money on the bike. She ended-up liking cycling quite a bit and we purchased a Cannondale Super-Six 3 (ultegra) earlier this year. We also sold the REI bike for $650 on Craigslist. The 15 months she rode gave her a chance to see what she liked/didn't. We also went to a couple of "demo days" for different manufacturer's to try out the various models and get a feel for the difference. (ie, There's a difference between the Madone and Domane, one that is especially noticeable if you ride the two models right after each other.) 

so ... I don't think it's necessarily a bad strategy to buy a bike intending to sell it a year from now. I think you find something in the $900-$1200 range, you can probably get 3/4 of the value back in a year by selling it. My first road bike was Tiagra and I still ride it as my commuter/rain bike.


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## love4himies (Jun 12, 2012)

vmps said:


> Bike geeks can point out the differences, but a non-enthusiast won't care. So if you want to spend the money, fine, but be clear it's because you want to, not because it's necessary. Might even make her less comfortable if she thinks she's on a crazy expensive bike and can't relax.


I noticed a huge difference when I bought my first road bike and wished I had gone into a higher end bike, rather than a lower end one, then spent more a few years later to buy a better one. I thought the tiagras were crap compared the the shifters I had on my 20 year old mountain bike. Love my 105's on my BMC though. I spent $3700 on 2 bikes within a few years when I really should have spend less on one better bike in the first place. 

*RJP*: hopefully the Madone will fit her well enough that she can take it for a nice test ride and decide if she likes biking or not before you put out the money. Good luck!

Edit: wrong poster


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## love4himies (Jun 12, 2012)

One more thing:

I knew before I left the parking lot on my first test ride of a road bike that I loved it compared to my old mountain bike. If she is not sure after testing one out, I wouldn't spend a lot of money. Maybe even a used one that has higher end components.


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## Camilo (Jun 23, 2007)

RJP Diver said:


> Shimano 2300 drive train, Maddux rims, and no-name OEM brakes?
> 
> Bring it up to 105 and comparable stuff and you're at... wait for it... $1,550.
> 
> To me, that's entry level for anyone trying to ensure they don't need to buy their second bike within months of buying the first one.


Nah. 

Tiagra and Sora (or Sram Apex) are more than fine for entry level bikes. They work flawlessly and will last a typical recreational user for many, many years. Note, I'm not saying _every_ user, just the great majority, almost all of them.

And yes, I've used that stuff on rentals as well as top of the line stuff on my own bikes, and have been perfectly satisfied and enjoyed the ride.

I've also had "Sora" and "Tiagra" bikes in my house as starter road bikes for my wife and daughter. It all works great and for a beginner price-point, the cheap stuff is just fine. Make sure everything is set up and adjusted right and that the brakes have good pads and are adjusted properly is the only knock I've ever had on cheap stuff. My wife and daughter both preferred the Sora hood /shifter size as well as the thumb buttons over the Tiagra etc shifters. They could use both and wouldn't necessarily switch once they had Tiagra, but preferred Sora when asked.

People should buy from a reputable company at whatever price point they want and they'll get a perfectly serviceable and enjoyable bike - for much less than $1,000 and very likely will never be dissatisfied with it.


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## RJP Diver (Jul 2, 2010)

love4himies said:


> Are they close in size?


Almost perfectly matched. Main thing I want her to experience however is rolling resistance, acceleration, control, etc


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## love4himies (Jun 12, 2012)

RJP Diver said:


> Main thing I want her to experience however is rolling resistance, acceleration, control, etc


That was the huge part for me to take up road cycling and giving up my mountain bike.


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## RJP Diver (Jul 2, 2010)

love4himies said:


> One more thing:
> 
> I knew before I left the parking lot on my first test ride of a road bike that I loved it compared to my old mountain bike. If she is not sure after testing one out, I wouldn't spend a lot of money. Maybe even a used one that has higher end components.


This morning we went to pick up a bike we bought last week for our daughter, and my wife had a chance to jump on a mid-level Jamis road bike and take it for a spin. She loved it immediately - I genuinely thing she was stunned at what a difference it was between that and anything else she's ever ridden. She spent the day on the beach poring over a year's worth of a Bicycling magazine issues.


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## RJP Diver (Jul 2, 2010)

vmps said:


> So if you want to spend the money, fine, but be clear it's because you want to, not because it's necessary.


The only one who's been unclear about whether I "need" versus "want" higher than "perfectly serviceable" components is you.


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## Alfonsina (Aug 26, 2012)

My first bike was 105's, I assumed 105 was entry level (2009). Chicks huh?


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## Camilo (Jun 23, 2007)

RJP Diver said:


> This morning we went to pick up a bike we bought last week for our daughter, and my wife had a chance to jump on a mid-level Jamis road bike and take it for a spin. She loved it immediately - I genuinely thing she was stunned at what a difference it was between that and anything else she's ever ridden. She spent the day on the beach poring over a year's worth of a Bicycling magazine issues.


Same here. Neither my wife nor daughters are gear freaks or speed freaks. They like to ride the bike for transportation, exercise and fun. After riding mountain bikes and hybrids (which are usually touted as being "more comfortable"), they both immediately loved and enjoyed road bikes. Why? Because they are more comfortable (once some thought is given to saddle, set up and tires) and much, much lighter. Anyone can feel the difference on the first ride, and especially if there's any hills. My wife is completely sold on the road bike - and if you'd met her, you might be surprised because she looks and acts like the late-50s moderately fit person she is, and you'd expect her to stick to the MTB or hybrid.

I did totally set it up for her - changed stem, saddle and even put a MTB rear derailleur and an 11-34 cassette on it to complement her front road triple. She is very happy with it and doesn't touch the hybrid unless it's an errand sort of thing.


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## love4himies (Jun 12, 2012)

Glad to hear she loved the road bike and now knows what a huge difference they make on the roads! Hopefully she will get in many, many miles on her new one.


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## Trek2.3 (Sep 13, 2009)

*It's all about fit. * 

I'm a male. Every one of my 5 bikes is a Trek WSD. Why? Because they fit me perfectly (all I have to do is add a 30mm set back seat post and off I go).


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## Bluenote (Oct 28, 2012)

Not all women actually have 'longer legs, short torso.' I'm long torsoed. I ride mens bikes and have to use a loooong stem. Works for me and my bikes fit great. 

I don't think men's or women's matters so much. But I do think people need bikes that fit.


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## Jen_I_Am (Mar 30, 2010)

QuiQuaeQuod said:


> And I would add sometimes short reach brakes.
> 
> But sometimes there really is little difference. It's just marketing and a wider saddle (often on lower end bikes).
> 
> ...


I agree, though I am 5'8" and a former owner of a Trek Pilot 6.2, a Madone something or other, a Specialized Allez and an Orbea Onix Dama (all WSD), I just accepted some of the shortcomings in fit- even after being professionally fitted twice- were just things I had to live with. I have long legs and broad shoulders of a swimmer and the top tube NEVER felt right and the handlebars felt too narrow. I tried a couple men's bikes, but the handlebars seemed wide enough for a linebacker. At $3k, I wasn't about to buy a brand new bike AND swap the bars. Oh, and the Orbea in the Dama build was squirrelly as h*** and the Trek Pilot was even worse.

One fine day I walked into the Orbea shop and the sales guy rolls out a 2 yr old Orca Gold in a Men's build he'd just traded for. It fit like it was made for me and the handlebars weren't 3 feet wide like they were on the other men's bikes I had shopped. I loved it so much I bought it and just bought an Aqua TPX for commuting and fun, AND am ordering the new Avant M30D (disc brakes, y'all!) In all fairness, I think the fact Orbea bikes are designed and built in Spain, they haven't "grown" to accommodate the expanding American physique (tongue in cheek lol).

I guess I'd encourage women to try both WSD and men's bikes. I wish I'd have done it sooner!


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