# Campagnolo 10-speed options ?



## acid_rider (Nov 23, 2004)

hello everyone

my riding buddy has a 2009-model 10-speed Centaur
he rides 53-39 double front rings and 13-29 10-speed cassette.

he want to covert to 50/34 Campag Centaur/Veloce compacts double rings but he does not want to buy new groupset like Athena (high cost) even though it has ideal gearing in 50/34 and 12-29 11-speed for him....

what he wants is a 10-speed either a 12-29 or 11-28 or 12-28 cassette that will work with Campagnolo compact 50/34.

If he stays on 13-29 10-speed then he would lose too much in top speed (50-13 versus 53-13) but he does want to keep his 29-tooth granny.

what options does he have? Does Shimano or SRAM 11-28 fit 10-speed Campag perhaps?

thanks


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## kbwh (May 28, 2010)

Get this Miche 12-29 perhaps?
Miche Primato 10X Campagnolo Cassette - from £26.71 | Dotbike


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## PRB (Jun 15, 2002)

53x13 = 28.7mph @ 90 rpms
50x13 = 27.1mph @ 90 rpms

That's not a huge difference in my book. Bump the cadence in the 50x13 to 95 and it equals 28.6mph.


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## SilverStar (Jan 21, 2008)

He could always buy a couple of the loose-cog cassettes (Veloces, particularly the older nickel-chrome ones) and mix and match to "Frankencassette" his own. Shifting may not be as smooth as a stock Campy model, but it will work. Otherwise, the Miche is a good choice.


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## Ventruck (Mar 9, 2009)

acid_rider said:


> hello everyone
> 
> what options does he have? Does Shimano or SRAM 11-28 fit 10-speed Campag perhaps?
> 
> thanks


Eh, I don't want to keep spamming this setup as Campagnolo purists would look to killing me in my sleep...

There is the possibility of using a SRAM 10spd RD, and get as big as a 32t cassette (SRAM Apex) working with the 10spd shifters. I've done the mix (albeit with a 12-25t cassette), and it shifts perfectly. I'm running Powershift (2011 Centaur) levers, so I can only testify to sweeping upshifts being executed well. Other than that the single indexing is fine. I haven't heard of a failed attempt by anyone else.


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## T0mi (Mar 2, 2011)

Ventruck said:


> Eh, I don't want to keep spamming this setup as Campagnolo purists would look to killing me in my sleep...
> 
> There is the possibility of using a SRAM 10spd RD, and get as big as a 32t cassette (SRAM Apex) working with the 10spd shifters. I've done the mix (albeit with a 12-25t cassette), and it shifts perfectly. I'm running Powershift (2011 Centaur) levers, so I can only testify to sweeping upshifts being executed well. Other than that the single indexing is fine. I haven't heard of a failed attempt by anyone else.


That's what I do with ultrashift centaur levers. But in this case the OP's buddy already have campy wheels. 

I would say the Miche primato 10s 12-29 option is the best.


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## onespeedbiker (May 28, 2007)

Has your riding buddy actually tried riding with a 13:29? I'd bet if you switched the cassettes with a compact crankset and didn't tell him, he'd never know the difference.


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## prometheus (Apr 28, 2006)

*Miche and IRD*

You should have your buddy look into either Miche loose cog cassettes- I believe you can get a 12-29, or check out IRD cassettes for 12-30 and similar combinations: IRD Cassettes


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## B2 (Mar 12, 2002)

SilverStar said:


> He could always buy a couple of the loose-cog cassettes (Veloces, particularly the older nickel-chrome ones) and mix and match to "Frankencassette" his own. Shifting may not be as smooth as a stock Campy model, but it will work. Otherwise, the Miche is a good choice.


I've done this in past (lost the 16T and added a 12T). I finally got tired of the ragged shift from 15T to 17T and went back to the standard 13-29 configuration. There's less than a half dozen times a year I feel like I really miss the 12T cog. For me the difference doesn't justify the poor shifting. It's not unworkable at all, but often requires an little extra swing of the shift lever (or a re-shift) to get a clean jump to the 17T cog.


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## adam_mac84 (Sep 22, 2010)

Ventruck said:


> Eh, I don't want to keep spamming this setup as Campagnolo purists would look to killing me in my sleep...
> 
> There is the possibility of using a SRAM 10spd RD, and get as big as a 32t cassette (SRAM Apex) working with the 10spd shifters. I've done the mix (albeit with a 12-25t cassette), and it shifts perfectly. I'm running Powershift (2011 Centaur) levers, so I can only testify to sweeping upshifts being executed well. Other than that the single indexing is fine. I haven't heard of a failed attempt by anyone else.


x2... good for cx, road should b fine


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## acid_rider (Nov 23, 2004)

thanks everyone. I will pass this thread on to my riding buddy.....


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## flatlander_48 (Nov 16, 2005)

Ventruck said:


> Eh, I don't want to keep spamming this setup as Campagnolo purists would look to killing me in my sleep...
> 
> There is the possibility of using a SRAM 10spd RD, and get as big as a 32t cassette (SRAM Apex) working with the 10spd shifters. I've done the mix (albeit with a 12-25t cassette), and it shifts perfectly. I'm running Powershift (2011 Centaur) levers, so I can only testify to sweeping upshifts being executed well. Other than that the single indexing is fine. I haven't heard of a failed attempt by anyone else.


Check that SRAM cassette. It has some BIG jumps in it...


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## flatlander_48 (Nov 16, 2005)

duplicate...


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## Coug4 (Jul 24, 2014)

A bit of a refresh to an old thread. 

Same thing but my "friend" is me. Old legs wanting higher cadence on teh really steep hills. Can I swap out the cassette in a compaq Campy setup with the SRAM 11-32 or 12-36?


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## headloss (Mar 3, 2013)

Coug4 said:


> A bit of a refresh to an old thread.
> 
> Same thing but my "friend" is me. Old legs wanting higher cadence on teh really steep hills. Can I swap out the cassette in a compaq Campy setup with the SRAM 11-32 or 12-36?


You have a Campy setup and thus a Campy wheel... so the Sram cassette won't even fit on the hub.

You could:

1. try to find a Campy cassette that fits your needs.
2. find an aftermarket manufacturer like Ambrosio or Miche that has the desirable cassette specs. 
3. Get a Shimano-hub wheel and use a travel-agent.
4. same as 3, but replace travel-agent with 11speed components since Shimano and Campy 11 are "close enough"


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## wabasso (May 18, 2012)

Shimano hub, SRAM or Shimano cassette and replace the rear Der. With an SRAM Apex. Works fine with the Campy shifters.


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## bikerjulio (Jan 19, 2010)

Campy now have a 12-30 10-spd Centaur cassette. Miche don't go that high.

Although it can work with a short cage RD and compact in front, if you are careful with chain length, a medium cage RD is safer.

Next step is Shimano/SRAM hub and cassette, Shimano RD and a shiftmate.


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## CliffordK (Jun 6, 2014)

Here is an IRD Campy compatible 11-30, 10 speed cassetee 

That thing is HUGE.

It looks like IRD also makes an 11-32, 11-34, and a 12-32 cassette.

IRD Campagnolo Compatible 10 Speed Elite Cassette

Notes indicate that you also need to find a medium or long cage derailleur.

Campagnolo also does make some triple cranks which might be a better option than going with those really big gears in the rear.


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## bikerjulio (Jan 19, 2010)

Campagnolo compatible can mean a couple of different things. The IRD picture shows Shimano splining giving the impression that it's a conversion cassette.

As Clifford says, for seriously lower gearing you might be better off with a triple. Centaur 10 and Athena 11 available. Requires shifters, derailleurs, crankset as a minimum.


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## CliffordK (Jun 6, 2014)

As far as I can tell, the standard Campy double shifters are compatible with a triple chainrings, but one would need a triple front derailleur, and probably a long cage for the rear.


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## bikerjulio (Jan 19, 2010)

CliffordK said:


> As far as I can tell, the standard Campy double shifters are compatible with a triple chainrings, but one would need a triple front derailleur, and probably a long cage for the rear.


Ultra shift - yes. Powershift - no.

depends what @coug has.


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## headloss (Mar 3, 2013)

bikerjulio said:


> Ultra shift - yes. Powershift - no.
> 
> depends what @coug has.


Also depends on the year. My 2011 Powershift Athena's work with both... I currently have them set up with a triple.



bikerjulio said:


> Campagnolo compatible can mean a couple of different things. The IRD picture shows Shimano splining giving the impression that it's a conversion cassette.


The second link specified that it was to be used with a Campy hub... not sure about the ebay link.


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## crestlinefarm (May 6, 2003)

*Say What??? campy-10 shifters and SRAM-10 rear derailleurs play nicely?*



wabasso said:


> Shimano hub, SRAM or Shimano cassette and replace the rear Der. With an SRAM Apex. Works fine with the Campy shifters.


Ok, I admit I've been out of the loop for a few years, riding SRAM shifters...but back in the day I ran the Shimgnolo (or was it Campimano?) 

What I have right now is a couple disc-brake equipped bikes setup with SRAM 10sp 
1-Force-10 carbon shifters, SRAM X9 medium cage (10sp type2) rear derailleur, Shimano CX-70 front derailleur. 
2-Rival-10 alloy shifters, SRAM Rival 10 short cage rear derailleur, Shimano CX-70 front derailleur.

What I would like to do is run my carbon Campagnolo Record-10 shifters, with EITHER of the SRAM rear derailleurs (both are marked "exact actuation" if that matters). I have a Shimano 11-28 cassette on one wheelset, and a SRAM OG 11-26 on the other. 

If what I'm hearing is that the Campy 10 shifters will work with the SRAM rear derailleurs and a Shimano/SRAM 10 speed cassette, that would be almost better than Christmas!


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## bikerjulio (Jan 19, 2010)

Suggest you peruse this Art's Cyclery Blog » Science Behind the Magic | Drivetrain Compatibility

Campy cable pull is 2.8 times SRAM RD ratio 1.3 = 3.64 mm per shift.

Shimano 10 cog spacing is 3.95.

Meaning that the combo will work but will be off by over a mm at either end.


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## DaveG (Feb 4, 2004)

crestlinefarm said:


> Ok, I admit I've been out of the loop for a few years, riding SRAM shifters...but back in the day I ran the Shimgnolo (or was it Campimano?)
> 
> What I have right now is a couple disc-brake equipped bikes setup with SRAM 10sp
> 1-Force-10 carbon shifters, SRAM X9 medium cage (10sp type2) rear derailleur, Shimano CX-70 front derailleur.
> ...


I am running a setup like this. I had bike with SRAM Rival. The Rival shifters broke. After reading about this topic on this board and Zinn's piece on it I installed Veloce 10s levers. So far it works fine and I like the bike a lot better. While I did not hate double-tap, I prefer Campy shifting. Now all is well in the universe


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## headloss (Mar 3, 2013)

bikerjulio said:


> Campy cable pull is 2.8 times SRAM RD ratio 1.3 = 3.64 mm per shift.


This. Adding, this is an average number per shift, the cable pull across the derailleur range is not actually uniform. So, you may want to play around a bit while dialing the RD in. With my Shimergo set up, I find that lining up the derailleur pulley with the middle cog (on a 9speed) gives me the best performance. You may find it works better lined up in the middle, or at one of the extremes. Sometimes you can remove the mm on either end with a little creativity and taking advantage of limit screws... but it's really case by case and you just have to experiment a little to see what is smoothest. 

As far as exact actuation, that's just marketing nonsense. SRAM and Shimano Dyna-sys (copying sram) have a cable pull that is relatively close to the amount of movement the derailleur makes from one cog to another. Ideally, it's a 1:1 but in reality, it's like 1.3+/- 1 on average. Like I said, the cable pull isn't uniform across the range of the RD (not for Shimano, Sram, or Campy... i've measured at least one example from all of them) so it's not really "exact actuation" so much as "relatively exact-ish actuation" but I guess that didn't sound as cool.


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## Openroad2014 (Oct 10, 2014)

You now can re-space a Shimano SRAM 10 speed cassette with small spacers and a 11 speed Shimano/SRAM road freehub body (longer than 10 speed freehub body for additional small spacers). It does not work for 10 speed Shimono freehub body. Shimano 10 speed cassettes have larger range. so you can play with cage length and chain length after re-space the cassette. This should get you a 50/34 and 12/34 or 12/36.


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## Kerry Irons (Feb 25, 2002)

Openroad2014 said:


> You now can re-space a Shimano SRAM 10 speed cassette with small spacers and a 11 speed Shimano/SRAM road freehub body (longer than 10 speed freehub body for additional small spacers). It does not work for 10 speed Shimono freehub body. Shimano 10 speed cassettes have larger range. so you can play with cage length and chain length after re-space the cassette. This should get you a 50/34 and 12/34 or 12/36.


I'm sure that 7 years after this thread died, the contributors are happy to hear a fix.


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## DaveG (Feb 4, 2004)

Kerry Irons said:


> I'm sure that 7 years after this thread died, the contributors are happy to hear a fix.


My theory is that OpenRoad2014 was cryonically frozen for the last 7 years and is not aware it is 2022


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