# Shimano 7850-C-24-CL Wheelset Comments



## rpm471

Any thoughts on the Shimano carbon wheelset? How does it compare to the Rolf Prima Elan, American Classic 350, or Campy Shamal?

Thanks.

rpm471


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## Rubber Lizard

Shimano's wheels are superb. Stiffness is probably the strongest suit of the high end Shimano wheels. Roulanes-Artistans' wheel tests have put the tubular Shimano wheels near the top of the charts in terms of stiffness. Long term durability with the high end Shimano wheelsets have been pretty favorable in recent years. 
The 7850-24 CL hasn't been on the market for more than a few months and not a lot of people have ridden them as they have been very scarce in the states. But you can probably expect a very durable wheel with superb hubs that's pretty close to its advertised weight. 

How does it compare to other wheels?
I can first and foremost tell you that American Classic product is not worth spending your money on. There are so many reports of failures, poor customer service and other poor experiences with American Classic product over the years your money is better spent elsewhere.American Classic is light and cheap but its not strong. Not even made in America either(although that doesn't matter, but its some false advertising on their part).

Campy makes superb wheels with absolutely no downsides other than cost and angering the cycling Gods if you mix them with a Shimano drivetrain. 

Rolf Makes good wheels and the company has a great reputation. I don't think their paired spoking offers any benefits other than looking cool. 
I'd rather have the loose ball setup in the Record or Dura-Ace hubs than the sealed bearings in the Rolf wheels.
That's my two cents.


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## ewitz

Shimano warns of puncture prone Dura-ace 

Mark Sutton Oct 8 2008, 11:06am 

DURA-ACE clincher tyre wheels WH-7850-C24-CL and WH-7850- C50-CL affected 

Shimano has found that there is a greater likelihood of a puncture in DURA-ACE clincher tyre wheels WH-7850-C24-CL and WH-7850-C50-CL. This is due to the surface texture of the rim in combination with the use of spoke-hole plugs. 

The phenomenon can be very easily eliminated by replacing the spoke-hole plugs with genuine 18 mm high pressure Shimano rim tape. 

At the website http://cycle.shimano-eu.com an instruction can be found about replacing the spoke-hole plugs by rim tape. 

All Shimano clincher wheel sets will be delivered with Shimano 
rim tape as of now. Dealers are instructed to supply Shimano rim tape free of charge to consumers affected by the problem, for which a refund will be available from Madison who have been sent replacement stock.


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## kreger

i have the 7850 sls. for me these are on the nice bike and are everyday wheels on that bike, im not interested in race only wheels. the sls have a different, all aluminum rim. i enjoy these wheels alot. i kinda wanted to get the cls for the carbon bling factor and the 100+/- gram savings, but the sls came with my bike.

i love them, stiff and strong, truing a slightly difficult, but i only had to true mine after a break in period. the tubeless which the cls lack(?) is really nice, make them feel like a carbon wheel. the freehub is really quiet.

i really like the wheel offerings from shimano,


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## Dr_John

> the sls have a different, all aluminum rim.


Actually I believe they're scandium.


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## kreger

Dr_John said:


> Actually I believe they're scandium.


actually theyre aluminum alloy rims, they have scandium in them yes. alloys with scandium have by weight .1 to .5% scandium. 

calling the rims on the 7850 sls a 'scandium rim' to me would be like calling an aluminum alloy frame with trace amounts of zinc in it a zinc frame. 

it is nice and cool from a marketing ploy, but not true.

scadium oxide costs about $1,500 a pound (via wikipedia)


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## Rubber Lizard

Dr_John said:


> Actually I believe they're scandium.


As the poster above stated they are aluminum. Almost all aluminum used in the world is doped with various metals such as copper, zinc, magnesium, vanadium , manganese, silicon and occasionally titanium and niobium. 
These elements are present in very minute quantities in the aluminum. 
Scandium is just a marketing buzzword for a high quality aluminum alloy.


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## Dr_John

Yep. Sorry. Should have said scandium alloy. Was in a hurry.


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## gambo2166

I just got the Shimano 7850-C-24-CL Wheelset upgraded from 7850.All I can say is hell ya!!!! Thease wheels ROCK! Stiff ,Light at 1390g. Im 195lbs and ride very rough roads and have no probloms with my old 7850 or my new 7850-c. Im going to use stans yellow tape and put some tubeless tires on like my 7850s.


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## mds

I also just bought a set of WH-7850-C24-CL. Build quality is very high. Bearings are superb, they roll silky smooth - better than anything else I've tried. Regarding Rolf, I've use them for a number of years. Rolf hubs are good, but wheel and spoke durability is not so good, at least for my 83kg weight.


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## Dr_John

Yeah, aren't they amazing? I really think they're a great ride. Plus the photos don't do them justice. IMO, they're absolutely gorgeous, in a nice, understated way.

Next up, the tubeless version. I'm saving up already.


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## ksanbon

Next up, the tubeless version. I'm saving up already. [/QUOTE]

Dr John,

I always appreciate your comments.

Any idea when Shimano might release them? I've had a 2008.5 Tarmac Pro w/ the Roval Fusee SL wheels since the end of July and will probably ride it recreationally for fitness (I like the rush!) 5000 miles / yr. After being off the bike for 20 years, I'm working to get stronger in the rolling hills of San Luis Obispo County (CA).

Any ideas as to what I might gain?


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## Dr_John

> Any idea when Shimano might release them?


No idea. I'm not even sure they're a reality, but it seems like their next logical step. It took quite a bit of time from the announcement of the C-24-CL's to their general availability, so I'd guess they're a long way off.



> Any ideas as to what I might gain?


I'm a climber, and I love the ride of the tubeless 7850-SL's I have, so a C-24-CL tubeless would be the dream wheel for me. All you'd really gain is tubeless capabilities.


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## ksanbon

Thanks for the input!


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## dover

the WH7850 CL tubeless will be available in march 09.
only one month to wait till I get mine.


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## dragon

*7850 c24 CL VS 7850 SL*

hi. 

can someone compare for me: 

-7850 c24 cl

-7850 SL (tubeless). 

who rode these 2 , and could compare it regarding comfort ?
i doubt, that the SL rim is as comfy as the c24... can u feel this or not?

i want to ride tubeless.. c24 could be "stan-taped"


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## dragon

dover said:


> the WH7850 CL tubeless will be available in march 09.
> only one month to wait till I get mine.


OHH IS THAT TRUE ???

how is the exact name then ?


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## dragon

Wh-7850-c24-tl

Wh-rs60-c24-tl


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## dougcarraway

Just bought the c24-cl's. Haven't picked them up yet, but am expecting good things. Here's what one very helpful shop tech said when I asked why they seemed relatively unavailable in the U.S...

"That’s possibly the single most underated wheel in all of cycling, and the only reason they don’t sell is because the morons at Shimano couldn’t market their way out of a wet paper bag.

They’re light as hell, and laterally they’re stiff as a set of Mavic Ksyriums. BUT BUT BUT they ride like a pair of traditional handbuilts: silky smooth. I say buy a pair, and beat them to death. You’ll absolutely love them, and like me – wonder why EVERYONE isn’t riding them.

Don’t sweat the rim tape thing – just grab some Velox and you’re good to go." 

My LBS also suggested that they don't have to market here in the U.S. like they do in Europe. Here, they rely on their good name. There, they have Campy etc. to compete with. 

Check this out, part of their Euro marketing campaign...
http://www.thebiggestwheeltestinhistory.com/

Doug


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## Dr_John

Still really loving my C24-CL's and 7850-SL's.


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## Gowrie Goat

*Wh 7850 C 24 Cl*

Just got back from my first ride on these after waiting ages for the Scottish winter to end. Wow. Very repsonive and do what they were advertised for. That is, they go up hill very smartly. I have one doubt though. Neither my bike shop nor the dealer could explain why the freewheel hub seemed to slow down the rear wheel faster than would be expected. Although you'd never notice it whilst riding and there's nothing wrong with the hubs themselves, they're silky smooth, it's just if you lift the bike up and spin the rear wheel it doesn't spin for very long before coming to a stop. I'd be interested in hearing from anyone who has got these to see if they have experienced the same thing. Do they just need 'running in' or is there something wrong? I only did 20 miles, but so far nothing different.


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## dougcarraway

I noticed that too. I'll ask my shop about it at some point and see if they have ideas. 

Also took my first ride on mine recently. Very responsive, climb well etc. The only thing that was kinda unsettling was that having a lighter set of wheels suddenly changes the bike's center of gravity. It feels a little top heavy now.

But they're great wheels. Got the wheels and a bigger cassette...ready for the big hills now.

Doug


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## cpark

dougcarraway said:


> Just bought the c24-cl's. Haven't picked them up yet, but am expecting good things. Here's what one very helpful shop tech said when I asked why they seemed relatively unavailable in the U.S...
> 
> "That’s possibly the single most underated wheel in all of cycling, and the only reason they don’t sell is because the morons at Shimano couldn’t market their way out of a wet paper bag.
> 
> They’re light as hell, and laterally they’re stiff as a set of Mavic Ksyriums. BUT BUT BUT they ride like a pair of traditional handbuilts: silky smooth. I say buy a pair, and beat them to death. You’ll absolutely love them, and like me – wonder why EVERYONE isn’t riding them.
> 
> Don’t sweat the rim tape thing – just grab some Velox and you’re good to go."
> 
> My LBS also suggested that they don't have to market here in the U.S. like they do in Europe. Here, they rely on their good name. There, they have Campy etc. to compete with.
> 
> Check this out, part of their Euro marketing campaign...
> http://www.thebiggestwheeltestinhistory.com/
> 
> Doug


Doug,

I agree with you about Shimano wheel's lateral stiffness but compare it to Ksyrium?
I dunno.....I had a set of Mavic Ksyrium's and I thought they were not very laterally stiff...but acceptable.


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## n3zos

i just order ..
i hope evrything is gonna be fine


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## -dustin

we just got the C24 TL in the (tubeless version)...i like them, surprisingly. i think we're actually only going to carry the 7850 tubeless and C24 tubeless.


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## Dr_John

*Shimano 7850-C-24-CL Wheelset*

For those interested in the US, you can get them on sale for %15 off the MSRP from biketiresdirect.


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## n3zos

+1 from me for the wheels........ 7850 C24 CL

they are stiff , Light , fast . They ride vey smooth .
It was propably the best choise...


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## tyro

-dustin said:


> we just got the C24 TL in the (tubeless version)...i like them, surprisingly. i think we're actually only going to carry the 7850 tubeless and C24 tubeless.


What is the weight of the C24 TL vs the stock C24 tube rim wheel?


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## dragon

guess 50g diffrence. 

my alus-sidewalls are not as good as with open pros: the braking is "rubbling" making vibrations. rest is ok. looks are too pimpy for me. (red nipples)


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## dickey

tyro said:


> What is the weight of the C24 TL vs the stock C24 tube rim wheel?


200 grams. The TL's are 50 grams lighter than the Scandium's


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## lawr

*Shimano Wh 7850 C 24 CL*

I've been riding these wheels for almost one month - 850K - and like them very much. I'm 190 lbs and find they are stiff and comfortable on my titanium bike. They seem to spin up quickly and maintain speed easily. Braking isn't noisy at all (Sram red). They are light and accelerate uphill very quickly. I was going to buy a custom set of wheels but opted for these because of the warranty and the ease and availability of having them fixed if need be. I can only compare them to my previous wheels - Easton EA 90 SLX (2007) which seemed to have much more flex and felt squishy by comparison.


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## greenslade

Hi-
Allow a possibly stupid question please.
Can you run clinchers on the 7850 TL's.
Do you need to commit to tubeless road tires?

I am buying a new wheelset and want to be in the future when it gets here.
Meaning; if the tubeless road revolution is truly right around the corner (and we will be getting choice of vendors and tire grades) then I would like to have a wheelset that can use the tires. 
I know that Campi is selling the 2-way wheels but I hear and see very little about how they actually work with clinchers. So the same question for the 7850 series RTL's.
Can they run standard clincher (M-pro3)?

thanks 
greenslade


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## dickey

yes you can.


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## greenslade

Hi- Thanks Dickey.

I don't know what the protocol is here but I would like to take a minute to trash a vendor.
I got my notification of your response in my email.
One of the advertisers was www.mpgear.com --> Mountain Plus Outdoor Gear.

THIS IS A TERRIBLE VENDOR!!!
I got a pair of racing snowshoes from them that self destructed after 10 miles. The experience of returning them and getting a refund is a story in its self.
Ended in filing a complaint against them with VISA.
RUN AWAY, RUN AWAY!!!

Sorry about. A little off topic I know.
The name came up and I started shaking. 

Greenslade


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## Clevor

Bah! Who needs the shallow version???

In regards to the original 2006 Shimano 7801 deep dish carbon (50 mm) wheelset, it's a damn shame all that whining by the Pro Tour mechanics resulted in Shimano moving the nipples to the rim, for the 2008 version. This somewhat neuters the excellent performance the 50 mm 2006 wheelset garnered in the Tour Magazine test of wheelsets: aerodynamic, good lateral stiffness, low moment of inertia; best all around wheelset. Moving the nipples to the rim spoils the aerodynamics there, and adds rotating weight. Plus it removes the technological bling of the design.

I mean how much more of a hassle is it to true the wheelset with the nipples at the hub, compared to Campy Boras, which require you to remove the whole tubular tire! But I guess only one or a few teams run Boras (mainly Caisse D'Epargne and Lotto Davitamon), whereas a lot of teams are sponsored by Shimano.

I was so impressed with the ride of a Shimano WH-R560 wheelset I bought for $152 (which utilizes the same technology), I searched high and low and was lucky enough to find probably the last set of 7801 deep dish carbons around. Still boxed with sealed wheelbags and accessories. I found the dirt cheap WH-R560 to be a wheelset which is stiff (I'm 190 lbs), aero, and maintains speed well. In the Tour Magazine test, this $152 wheelset led the way in aerodynamics of the clincher wheelsets.

BTW, on my cheapie WH-R560 wheelset, the hubs felt rough when I first bought them, but after a couple of rides they are really smooth and spin a long time on the bike. With tires installed, it's a bit deceptive since they provide rotating weight. While it shares the same design, this Ultegra wheelset doesn't have anywhere near the quality internals of the higher end DA 7801 carbon wheelset. I spun the front wheel of the latter, and it is silky smooth without a tire installed. I noticed the same thing at a bike shop. I heard the 2008 version has stiffer seals which may explain why they don't spin so long.

To me, the cons of the original 7801 deep dish carbon wheelset are the ugly color (olive green and oxblood red), and the relatively porky weight of 1500+ grams. But from a functional standpoint, the Tour Magazine test showed they can't be beat for overall performance. They even said that from the inertia numbers, the deep dish should climb as well as the shallow version.


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## toshi

Any truth to the rumor that the alloy braking portion of the rim on these is soft, and wears more quickly than other alloy rims (e.g. everyday stuff like Open Pro's)?


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## NealH

toshi said:


> Any truth to the rumor that the alloy braking portion of the rim on these is soft, and wears more quickly than other alloy rims (e.g. everyday stuff like Open Pro's)?


No, there sure isn't. I've been running mine hard for a year now, and riding primarily in the mountains. I have braked the hell out of the wheels. They are as good as new.


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## shachah7

Is there any way of replacing the aluminium portion for braking once they wear out? Or do you have to replace the wheel?


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## Clevor

shachah7 said:


> Is there any way of replacing the aluminium portion for braking once they wear out? Or do you have to replace the wheel?


You are dealing with Shimano here, and if there is one manufacturer interested more in function rather than form, it's them. Their philosophy is build something that works and lasts, damn the weight.

Case in point is the now discontinued deep dish carbon 7801s circa 2006. I've examined this wheelset closely and have compared it to the other carbon wheelsets I have, a set of Bora Ultras and Hed Stingers. I swear the 7801s have lighter carbon rims than these two wheelsets. The thickness of the rim wall seems thinner than on the Campy and Heds. This is why the wheelset has such a low moment of inertia and spins up well. The wheelset weighs 1500 gms (I lucked out with a light set as they are rated at 1525), but most the weight is in the oversized axles in the hubs. Think about it, that is the optimized ride quality: beefy, sturdy axles for the wheels to spin on with light carbon rims for good acceleration and ability to hold speed. Add the nipples at the hub to improve the aerodynamics and the low spoke count (with beefy short spokes attached to oversized hubs for lateral stiffness and no j-bend), and you can see the engineering and thought that went into this wheelset.

What amazes me is the durability that was built into such light carbon rims, as the 7801s have an excellent reputation in this area. Shimano used a no-nonsense type of high modulus carbon fiber.

In regards to the 2008 shallow dish wheelset, Leonard Zinn of Velonews did a shootout test and the Shimanos came out on top, mainly for the superb braking quality and quality of the hubs. They tested against Campy Hyperons, the Zip 202, and the Bontrager wheels that Astana rides. Even with an aluminum insert in the rear wheels (which made them the heaviest wheelset in the test), they said the wheels rode like they were 100 gms lighter - with conventional nipples at the rims at that.

You might want to save your dollars. Rumor is Shimano is coming out with a sub 1100 gm wheelset in 2010 at the earliest. The wheels have 18 spokes each and internal nipples. Rabobank was riding a prototype in this years TDF.


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## Dr_John

> Rumor is Shimano is coming out with a sub 1100 gm wheelset in 2010 at the earliest.


Those are tubulars. The C-24-CL's are clinchers, and at 1400 g, they seem like a pretty good weight for a clincher with an aluminum braking surface to me.


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## edk

toshi said:


> Any truth to the rumor that the alloy braking portion of the rim on these is soft, and wears more quickly than other alloy rims (e.g. everyday stuff like Open Pro's)?


Yes, that is what I have seen here.


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## crank1979

I run the C24 CL wheelset on my everyday bike. I commute 100km a day, 3 days a week and then do some other rides with them. The rim sidewall is not soft but i found the brake feel to improve significantly when i changed the Dura Ace pads to Kool Stop salmon pads. I commute in wet weather as well as dry and the road conditions over here are pretty bad (5 punctures in one week convinced me to run tyre liners!). With over 5000km on them i haven't had to have them trued and running Maxxis Re-Fuses with cheap tubes and tyre liners makes me glad i started with a lightweight wheelset. They still run as smooth as the day i got them.:thumbsup:


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