# litespeed warranty disgust



## dje

I purchased a new 2005 litespeed avior in 2006. This July the frame cracked at the bottom bracket. Frame came w/ 3 yr warranty that was well in time frame. Litespeed/American bicycle group gave me two bogus offers to choose from. Offer 1/ receive $200 in cash for frame reimbursement. Offer 2/ Pay $1200 for a titanium upgrade. What a joke. This is my third Litespeed bike. I cant believe a company that makes such fine bikes can treat customers so poorly. I have not given up. I will mail, email, call, and post on the internet until I receive what I believe is a fair offer. Any others out there with litespeed warranty issues? Thanks, Doug Engler


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## ti_litespeed

Too bad you're not happy with them. The Avior is an aluminum frame and I think all their frames are titanium now. I recommend you go with the $1200 upgrade.


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## yakky

I would be upset too. If you offer a warranty, you BETTER be able to fill it. It sounds like they ran out of frames. Mail them via postal service (registered) kindly asking for a replacement frame that is equal or better. If they refuse, send a letter of intent to sue.


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## jorgy

ti_litespeed said:


> Too bad you're not happy with them. The Avior is an aluminum frame and I think all their frames are titanium now. I recommend you go with the $1200 upgrade.


Agree. $1200 for a Siena would be a great deal. Fantabulous deal if they throw in the Easton EC90 SL fork as well.

I wouldn't take an Ardennnes for $1200 as you can get them for not much more on closeout.

OP--I totally understand your frustration. And even though $1200 is a great deal, I can understand that it may be money you just don't want to spend right now.


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## Rubber Lizard

Litespeed is in a difficult situation here. They no longer make aluminum frames anymore and a titanium frame is considerably more expensive for them to produce than their made in Taiwan aluminum frames. 
They take a large monetary loss by giving you a fancy new frame. Or they offer you a very fair price for a new frame, probably their cost to build the frame. Cash up front from a company is almost unheard of. Not a bad offer. 
Take the money and buy something else or just upgrade to a easily repairable and highly durable titanium frame for a price you won't find anywhere else. 

Anger and threats and a bombardment of internet forums posts won't get you anywhere, although I understand why you are angry. 
The dealer that you purchased the bike from will have far more pull with Litespeed than all the angry internet posts you make. I suggest you start with them. If you didn't purchase your bike through a authorized dealer then you should take Litespeed's offer and be very gracious. 
They made you a pretty fair offer. Take it or leave it.


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## yakky

Rubber Lizard said:


> They made you a pretty fair offer. Take it or leave it.


No they did not. Fair is replacing the frame within the time period of the warranty. I don't know about you, but when I get something with a warranty, I expect replacement with something of equal or better if it cannot be repaired. Its not what is convenient for the mfg, its about the terms of the warranty. Looking at the warranty itself, I'm amazed by how nebulous it is.

http://www.litespeed.com/2006/warranty.aspx?all=t

"If anything attests to our obsession with perfection, it's our lifetime guarantee*. At Litespeed, we know you're in it for the long haul, and so are we. We put our heart and soul into every bicycle frame we build--and we back it all up with a lifetime warranty*.

We are committed to the satisfaction of Litespeed customers."

and then...

"This warranty offers no cash refunds."

Whats is interesting is there is no text about what they will do for you. On the other hand, someone that has a clue about customer service says:

"Felt will have the option of either repair or replacement for any defective product. In the event Felt elects to replace a defective frame, a new frame of equal or greater value will be provided. The new frame may not be the exact model purchased."

So I dunno, I guess my expectations are too much from one company, but just right for another.


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## SwiftSolo

dje said:


> I purchased a new 2005 litespeed avior in 2006. This July the frame cracked at the bottom bracket. Frame came w/ 3 yr warranty that was well in time frame. Litespeed/American bicycle group gave me two bogus offers to choose from. Offer 1/ receive $200 in cash for frame reimbursement. Offer 2/ Pay $1200 for a titanium upgrade. What a joke. This is my third Litespeed bike. I cant believe a company that makes such fine bikes can treat customers so poorly. I have not given up. I will mail, email, call, and post on the internet until I receive what I believe is a fair offer. Any others out there with litespeed warranty issues? Thanks, Doug Engler


Having been in business until retirement, I can tell you that they owe you a new frame of equal or better value. It is not satisfactory to let their decision to discontinue a particular model become an excuse to refuse to honor the terms of their warranty. 

If your post is true, you are doing the correct thing by letting the cycling community know that purchasing a litespeed product is a risky business. No business can survive poor customer service in this day of web communication. Litespeed had an obligation to anticipate this problem when they made the decision to discontinue this model.


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## Napfgeist

Go for the Ti frame and ride it forever!
:thumbsup:


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## peyo

SwiftSolo said:


> Having been in business until retirement, I can tell you that they owe you a new frame of equal or better value. It is not satisfactory to let their decision to discontinue a particular model become an excuse to refuse to honor the terms of their warranty.
> 
> If your post is true, you are doing the correct thing by letting the cycling community know that purchasing a litespeed product is a risky business. No business can survive poor customer service in this day of web communication. Litespeed had an obligation to anticipate this problem when they made the decision to discontinue this model.


+1

This exact scenario should have been considered when they changed their business model to producing just Ti frames. If their customer service/warranty is to safeguard their customer's purchase, they should have factored in the inherent cost of changing their business model to include warranties on aluminum frames for the 3yr period, after which the warranties would lapse. I doubt there are enough defective aluminum frames to make a sizable impact under such a policy. 

Regardless of how generous the $1200 upgrade offer might be, "forcing" a customer to upgrade to Ti is unreasonable if the only other option is to receive $200 for his frame.


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## teoteoteo

+1 with Rubber Lizard

They won't give you a ti frame that costs them $1000 for one that cost far them far far less. GM won't give you a Escalade if your lemon law your Geo. 

I rep'd Litespeed for a year and this is how the new owner handles the alum frames that crack. As of the time I left every warranty went across his desk and I can say I never saw him budge.


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## yakky

teoteoteo said:


> +1 with Rubber Lizard
> 
> They won't give you a ti frame that costs them $1000 for one that cost far them far far less. GM won't give you a Escalade if your lemon law your Geo.
> 
> I rep'd Litespeed for a year and this is how the new owner handles the alum frames that crack. As of the time I left every warranty went across his desk and I can say I never saw him budge.


But GM will buy your Geo back if they can't honor the terms of their warranty. I really want to know how you guys expect the mfg's decision to not produce these frames is the customers problem? This is about obligation to the terms of your warranty. I'm no lawyer but I did watch a lot of People's court  , if its not written, then whatever is implied rules, and in this case, the OP has a right to an equivalent replacement, not this bogus offer.


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## SwiftSolo

teoteoteo said:


> +1 with Rubber Lizard
> 
> They won't give you a ti frame that costs them $1000 for one that cost far them far far less. GM won't give you a Escalade if your lemon law your Geo.
> 
> I rep'd Litespeed for a year and this is how the new owner handles the alum frames that crack. As of the time I left every warranty went across his desk and I can say I never saw him budge.


I am very pro business and dispise those who think business is always out to screw them. Business is out there to make a profit in the long term. You do not make a profit in the long term by providing poor customer service or by producing poor products. You honor your warranty and build the kind of reputation the customers brag about.

It is up to Lightspeed to make him "whole" again, however much it costs them. It is not his fault that they decided to discontinue his frame. They simply need to get him a replacement of equal or better value. Trying to sell him a frame that is valued at 5 times what his original one was worth won't cut it. He can not buy a replacement for the cash they've offered him. In short, it is their problem to fix and they should likely get at it very soon. Until they make him whole again, he needs to let them know that this will not go away.


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## MikeBiker

Litespeed should have stocked sufficient aluminum frames to be able to honor their warranty. Their failure to do so should not be used as an excuse to not honor the warranty. If they were half bright, they would get a generic aluminum frame and paint it with the litespeed color and logos and use it to honor the warranty claims.


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## yakky

SwiftSolo said:


> You do not make a profit in the long term by providing poor customer service or by producing poor products. You honor your warranty and build the kind of reputation the customers brag about.
> 
> It is up to Lightspeed to make him "whole" again, however much it costs them.


You bring up a really good point I forgot to mention. When someone submits a warranty claim against your company, you already have a customer that has a problem with your company, product and reputation. You are already in the negative with this customer. After all, he has lost usage of your product due to a defect. You can:

1. Make it right, fill your obligations and do something to appologize to the customer, I dunno, free shirt, cap, etc.

2. Tell him, sorry buddy, you are out of luck this time,. here is all we can do...and make sure he will never be your customer again.

Clearly, Litespeed is saying #2.


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## dje

Thanks for the input. I still believe I deserve a better offer. Another litespeed rep. emailed me with an additional offer. A 2006 litespeed tuscony frame for $1000. Im going to email him back with quotes from this post, and see what happens. Its worth a try , I guess.
Thanks , doug


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## Mersault

dje said:


> I purchased a new 2005 litespeed avior in 2006. This July the frame cracked at the bottom bracket. Frame came w/ 3 yr warranty that was well in time frame. Litespeed/American bicycle group gave me two bogus offers to choose from. Offer 1/ receive $200 in cash for frame reimbursement. Offer 2/ Pay $1200 for a titanium upgrade. What a joke. This is my third Litespeed bike. I cant believe a company that makes such fine bikes can treat customers so poorly. I have not given up. I will mail, email, call, and post on the internet until I receive what I believe is a fair offer. Any others out there with litespeed warranty issues? Thanks, Doug Engler



well that avoir frame is probably worth $200. You can get one of these often for that with a fork. And it comes with a 5-year warranty

http://www.performancebike.com/shop/profile.cfm?SKU=23562&subcategory_ID=3020

I'd wager those aluminum litespeeds were nothing special, seeing as how they didn't last too long.

$1000 for a 2006 Tuscany seems like a good deal, if you're in the market for one. It looks like they're trying to work with you. I mean if they bought up one of those performance frames and put a litespeed sticker on it, would that satisfy you?


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## rmsmith

I'd go for the titanium frame offer.

You must realize that road bicycles are a niche market, not a mass production product like a Dell PCs. A titanium upgrade will put you at the top of the frame materials totem pole.

When I drop $5k to take the family skiing I don't get a weather guarantee.


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## PbOkole

dje said:


> Thanks for the input. I still believe I deserve a better offer. Another litespeed rep. emailed me with an additional offer. A 2006 litespeed tuscony frame for $1000. Im going to email him back with quotes from this post, and see what happens. Its worth a try , I guess.
> Thanks , doug


Take this deal and run. That is a $2500 frame and it is one of the best riding frames they have ever produced. It is also somewhat of a classic since it is the last level top tubed frame they made. Emailing the rep a bunch of quotes from an internet forum will not produce any more positive results than this deal. I have one of these frames and love the way it rides.


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## yakky

PbOkole said:


> Emailing the rep a bunch of quotes from an internet forum will not produce any more positive results than this deal.


So true, they will probably laugh at this thread. I'd go with a nice certified letter informing them of their obligations to their warranty and your intent to sue if they do not fufill them. I bet you the $2 it will cost you to mail the letter, that you'll get a hell of a lot more action out of them then emails.


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## brentster

Thanks for posting this dje. I'll be sure and stear clear of this company.


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## kingpin

*New Frame*

You are 100% right in your demand for a same or better replacement for a defective product. I can't believe that Litespeed would jepordize their reputation for the sake of $1000. I would have second thoughts about purchasing one of their products after reading this post. A number of years ago, I had a Giant OCR frame failure. I brought to my lbs and they in turn sent it back to Giant. Four weeks later, I recieved a new TCR frame and fork because they were sold out of the OCR's! I've since bought 4 Giant bicycles. It dosen't take a Harvard economics degree to figure out Giant's warranty policy makes good business sense. Shame on Litespeed!


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## Tequila Joe

So what happened?

I feel for the OP but I think Litespeed was being than fair in this case.

The Aviore was an inexpensive frame made by a contract Taiwan manufacturer and imported to the US. Litespeed then slapped one of thier stickers on it with the hopes that folks that wanted a Ti Litespeed, but didn’t want to afford one, would buy this bike. This was Litespeed’s effort to diversify into a lower end aluminum market that obviously failed and subsuquently, the bikes were discontinued.

Since Litespeed doesn’t contract or make any aluminum frames, they have offered the OP $200 so he can purchase another aluminum frame of equal value. There are many new aluminum frames of equal quality that can be had for $200. Mersault previously mentioned the performance frames and I agree that they are probably equal in the quality of the Aviore frame. BTW: Scattantee could be made by the same contract manufacturer that made the Avoire. There are some fabulous used aluminum frames that can be had for $200 on eBay if your patient. 

Now, Litespeed has also offered a new 2006 Tuscany for $1000. Holy crap! This is a fabulous deal! The Tuscany is one of the best riding Ti frames Litespeed ever built. The Tuscany was their bread and butter over the years they sold them and they retailed for well over $2200. 

I would take the Tuscany deal in a heartbeat. Collect bottles, call in all IOU’s, beg, borrow or steal the money if you have to. The Tuscany is a fabulous frame that will give you a boner every time you ride it. 

BTW: This frame probably comes with a lifetime warrantee. :lol:


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## Napfgeist

Tequila Joe said:


> So what happened?
> 
> Now, Litespeed has also offered a new 2006 Tuscany for $1000. Holy crap! This is a fabulous deal! The Tuscany is one of the best riding Ti frames Litespeed ever built. The Tuscany was their bread and butter over the years they sold them and they retailed for well over $2200.
> 
> BTW: This frame probably comes with a lifetime warrantee. :lol:


:thumbsup: ..that is exactly what I suggest.. take it and ride forever!


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## framed

or take the frame for $1000 and resell it on eBay for $1500...


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## Tequila Joe

Napfgeist said:


> :thumbsup: ..that is exactly what I suggest.. take it and ride forever!





framed said:


> or take the frame for $1000 and resell it on eBay for $1500...


:thumbsup: 
Yup, some of us bike weenies are friggin' blind to when the Cycling Gods have smiled upon them. 
They should sell thier bikes/equipment and take up something useless like golf.

T.J.


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## Argentius

From my, of course, biased perspective, it sounds like Litespeed is being pretty reasonable.

Warranties are fuzzy, but, the money you are being offered is enough to get yourself a frame of similar quality, even at retail prices.

The $1000 Tuscany is a STEAL.

Look, it was a bad call to make those Aluminaspeeds. They weren't very great, they sold poorly, and they discontinued them. They have no reason to carry on producing them.

It would be silly to make a lot of out of production aluminum bikes just for warranty concerns.

There is a reasonable chance that my employer would make a similar offer, in the same situation.

If this were the Big Three, they probably WOULD just replace the frame, but of course they have fairly similar frames to begin with, and are big enough to absorb the occasional hit like that.

A smallish company light Litespeed would get hung out to dry, you do realize that, don't you?


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## yakky

Another thread of litespeed taking care of their customer...HA

http://forums.roadbikereview.com/showthread.php?t=160027


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## Ride-Fly

*So what was the Final Outcome????*

Did you ever get this resolved? How much did the Aviore originally cost?? 

Here is something else to throw out: what if Litespeed picked up a generic Taiwanese AL frame from their Asian manufacturer contacts and threw on some paint and Litespeed stickers and offer it to you? Would you feel made "whole" or made "hole" as in screwed? I ask because from what I gather from this thread is that the Aviore was a fairly cheap Asian frame. I agree that LS shoudl replace the frame with equal of greater value but since they don't have any AL frames in their line-up, they are in a kind of bind. I certainly don't expect them to replace it with any of their Ti frames for free but they should make an effort to replace it with a equal or greater AL frame, even if it is not their own. Personally, I would jump on the Ti upgrade option. $1000 for the Tuscany is a good deal. What were they offering for the $1200 upgrade option?? 

Anyhow, hope you got this resolved to your satisfaction.


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## rook

I agree with the other people who think Litespeed did not do enough initially. Offering such a low amount for a warrantied frame is not standing by the original warranty. If the warranty states that a replacement frame of equal or greater value is to exchanged for the damaged frame, then Litespeed must live by this. Period. Else, it should directly buy back the frame from the customer for the MSRP price at the time the sale occurred.


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## brujenn

*Warranties.*

Doesn't eveyone know that warranties, while they may not contain exactly the text that says so, come with this condition: "Unless it is not convenient for us" to follow through.

They should pay the original purchase price of the frame. If they offer a sweet upgrade as an alternative, good on them, but still.


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## DasCharisma

Wow, just came across this old thread. I am in the market for a new bike and was considering a Litespeed. I guess I will spend my money with a more stand up company.


Brad


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## Balderick

I am looking for a Us made Ti frame, and came across this old thread. FWIW, I had a warranty issue with an Argon18 Ti frame. Argon18's local importer did not have any more Ti frames in my size and were not importing any more, and so offerred a Platinum (carbon) frame. I would have preferred a Ti frame but the offer was fair and probably generous in $$$ terms.


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## ultimobici

Balderick said:


> I am looking for a Us made Ti frame, and came across this old thread. FWIW, I had a warranty issue with an Argon18 Ti frame. Argon18's local importer did not have any more Ti frames in my size and were not importing any more, and so offerred a Platinum (carbon) frame. I would have preferred a Ti frame but the offer was fair and probably generous in $$$ terms.


So buy an original Litespeed, buy a Lynskey. Friend has one and it is purdy. Good enough that many Ti frames from other manufacturers were made by the Lynskey family. Merckx, Peugeot & Look in the 90's were Litespeeds made by them.


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## RussellS

PbOkole said:


> Take this deal and run. That is a $2500 frame and it is one of the best riding frames they have ever produced.


No. I purchased a 2005 Litespeed Tuscany in 2006 from Colorado Cyclist for $1500. Frame, fork, headset. Its a fine and good bike. But don't believe this nonsense of it being worth $2500 or whatever other fictitous number gets thrown around.


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## tapeng

I just found out this old thread and thanks god.
I am about to buy a LiteSpeed for my son.
Litespeed was the only brand I could think about (I had one).
After reading this thread I am sure my son's titanium won't spell "LiteSpeed"
Thanks dje for posting this.


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## brentster

"just found out this old thread and thanks god.
I am about to buy a LiteSpeed for my son.
Litespeed was the only brand I could think about (I had one).
After reading this thread I am sure my son titanium won't spell "LiteSpeed"
Thanks dje for posting this."
-------------------------------------------------
Your son's name is Titanium? Cool!!!!!


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## Starter

What the f3ck is up with the people backing Litespeed in this situation? This is insanely simple. Let's break it down:

1. Litespeed sold an aluminum frame. Who made said frame, how inferior it was to their ti product, or how inexpensive it was is IRRELEVANT.

2. Litespeed included a three year warranty with the frame, promising replacement of the frame if the frame failed. It was specifically mentioned that a cash refund was not an option, that the frame would be REPLACED. This warranty was outlined in detail on papers shipped with the frame. This is legally defined as a CONTRACT, and they are obligated to adhere to it.

3. Litespeed decided to stop selling the aluminum frame. When that decision was made, in order to stay on the right side of the LAW, they needed to have in place some sort of warranty solution for the frames still in circulation and under warranty. A solution that ADHERED TO THE LEGALLY BINDING CONTRACT. That means a replacement. Not money. Not a discount. A replacement. How "fair" any monetary solution might be is IRRELEVANT. How great any discount may be is IRRELEVANT. Both violate the terms of the contract.

4. Rather than buying up a supply of the frames for use as warranty frames, or forging an alliance with another manufacturer that would allow for the quick order of a comparable replacement frame, the owner of Litespeed instead nixed every replacement request that came across his desk, offered solutions EXPRESSLY BARRED by the language of the contract, and in the words of one rep "did not budge". In other words, he decided to knowingly and willfully COMMIT FRAUD.

The bottom line here is that Litespeed did the math, and figured out that the number of frames sold didn't equal class-action tort lawyer bait, and thus decided to break the law. This is not a "tough situation" for them. They had every opportunity to put warranty solutions in place, and honor their CONTRACTUAL OBLIGATIONS, but they decided not to do that, knowing the inevitable outcome, and apparently not caring in the slightest.

Luckily, the law is clear, and on your side here. Haul their ass into small claims court and you will be awarded the replacement frame owed. Whether or not they will just buy you a comparable alloy frame from another manufacturer or give you a ti frame is anyone's guess. But they will be forced to honor their contract.


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## tapeng

Starter said:


> What the f3ck is up with the people backing Litespeed in this situation? This is insanely simple. Let's break it down:


Well, it didn't happen to them and the pride of having a Ti.
So blame the guy for not getting the Ti deal. How ridiculous ?
I have two Litespeeds and I like them a lot. 
But it does not make my head spin.
Of course Litespeed did all the math when they did this.
Not having enough stock to keep up the warranty
just because of money saving. Their up and down
has nothing to do with the warranty unless they close down. 
Litespeed simply don't have the confidence on their alu frame
they sold. Litespeed still have good Ti product but my son's
Lynskey Cooper will arrive at the end of March.
I have talked to guy in Lynskey about the order. 
Not only they are super nice and friendly but give
me the flexibility of custom it and a great deal as well. 
From now on it's all about Lynskey.
When the kid screw up you talk to their father.


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