# saddle height, feet can't touch the ground..



## PoorCyclist (Oct 14, 2010)

My wife went to a fitting session which raised the saddle height about 1"

Her toes can barely touch the ground and not able to take off or stop, struggle to start getting on the saddle... I taught her all the tricks I know but she is immensely scared, tense and shaky. Did a few stopping exercises with me catching the handlebar but didn't seem to be helping.

She was doing great before in-terms of stopping and going.. even used clipless pedals in our "home grown" fit.. admittedly may be slightly lower than ideal.. the new position worked great on the trainer though.


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## Touch0Gray (May 29, 2003)

I don't believe I have ever taken off from a standing start from the saddle....I can't reach the ground either.
At a stop sign I unclip my left, keep the right clipped...left foot on the ground and straddle the bar. 

On a "rolling start" I clip the left in, shove off with my right and swing it over the saddle and rear while i am rolling....then clip in.


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## gordy748 (Feb 11, 2007)

What frame are you/ she using? If it's designed for criteriums, then the whole frame will be built higher than average to accommodate better corner clearance.

The easiest thing to do is go back to the old position, but the better thing to do is to spend a Saturday in a school parking lot working on basic bike handling skills. Her toes barely touching the ground sounds much like my position... She need to spend some time getting used to the new perch. The low speed skills training is actually quite useful, it will give you more confidence when around traffic lights, stop signs, etc.


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## ldotmurray (Jun 15, 2009)

My fit created the same scenario but it's not an issue for me. I don't sit on my saddle and put a foot down simultaneously. When stopped, I keep one foot clipped to the pedal and the other on the ground while standing. I have noticed riders having a foot on the ground while on the saddle but I never thought about what is proper. My fiancé has the same issue and I told her to stand like I do. If only I can get her to practice clipping and unclipping from her shimano pedals. I don't know if the helped or not. Just my $.02.


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## wim (Feb 28, 2005)

If she had no knee problems, lower her saddle to where it was before. Even if the extra inch of saddle height gained her an extra 10 watts of sustainable power, what good is that if she's afraid to ride her bike? I'm aware that adjusting saddle height to accommodate "feet-on-the-ground-while sitting on the-saddle" is not a good way to determine saddle height for *most* people.

As to your teaching: did you think about the possibility that she's uncomfortable with standing up while coasting? Before I teach starting and stopping to adults, I go through a "coasting-and-braking-while-standing" drill. First comes coasting while standing with the cranks horizontal. Then comes coasting while standing with one pedal down—left, then right. The one-pedal-down drill (rider preference varies as to left or right) is the key to starting and stopping if you think about it. Make sure she stands up and coasts well before the stop—about 5 seconds minimum. "Catching the handlebar" is completely counterproductive.


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## taralon (Sep 1, 2011)

My two cents:

A 1 inch change is a rather abrupt change in riding position. I'd personally measure the suggested saddle height, drop the saddle back to where it was pre-fit and slowly raise it back to the suggested level over a month or two. If she wasn't experiencing any leg pain prior to the fit, there isn't any reason to court any by making that drastic a change. 

As to the issue of starting/stopping I think the best cure for this, is learning how to ride very, very slowly and eventually how to track stand. The more confident you are in your balance on the bike, the slower you can ride it, and the more confident you are in stopping/starting. Building confidence in your riding ability takes time, and it's not really something you're going to get in a few minutes of practice, or a couple trips to a parking lot etc.


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## PoorCyclist (Oct 14, 2010)

Thanks, I taught her to start from the top tube and elevate onto the saddle, she could do it before but not seem to now.. saddle is higher and bar is lower.

So when I stop I just get my butt off and just get on the top tube while rolling and one leg clip in, I guess this is a little advanced, but she said there is no way she could do this. She seem to not understand how to use the brakes to come to a complete stop slowly and we are working on that.

Standing on pedals to a stop will be next to impossible, I can't believe how difficult it is to teach an adult to ride..


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## RJP Diver (Jul 2, 2010)

PoorCyclist said:


> Standing on pedals to a stop will be next to impossible, I can't believe how difficult it is to teach an adult to ride..


Went through this recently with my 14yo daughter when I bought her a new "adult sized" bike. Took her about a week to figure it out.

Can your wife ride the bike while standing on the pedals (ie - off the saddle)? This is the immediate pre-cursor skill to being able to STOP the bike while off the saddle. Turns out my daughter was not comfortable standing on the pedals. Once I got her past that, she was fine with stopping off the saddle.


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## Hooben (Aug 22, 2004)

Sounds like it's just right. I can't touch the ground from my saddle either. You know the drill. You have to stand over the top tube. To get started you must push off using one pedal, then sit down and clip in the other foot.


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## wim (Feb 28, 2005)

PoorCyclist said:


> Standing on pedals to a stop will be next to impossible, I can't believe how difficult it is to teach an adult to ride..


It's very difficult. The main reason is that the one doing the teaching has automated certain procedures (like starting and stopping) and is no longer aware of the exact sequence of actions. As a teacher of adults, you realize very quickly that the slogan"just do it" is complete nonsense.


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## PoorCyclist (Oct 14, 2010)

Serious question, do they sell training wheels that fit a 700c road bike? 

I asked her to try to stand up but she just shakes all her muscles and lifted 1"off the saddle, she can do it on the trainer..

On the other hand, taking Wim's advice.. I lowered the saddle about 1/2", we went out and it got a little better.. it may just come down to being able to ride or not ride at all. 

You see many guys and girls riding their dutch bike or cruiser with saddle completely too low, and they don't necessary experience pain at all.


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## wim (Feb 28, 2005)

Hooben said:


> I can't touch the ground from my saddle either.


I can't either, but that's pretty much meaningless if it comes down to riding or giving up riding. I know a number of adults who insist on being able to put a foot flat on the ground while seated, yet they enjoy riding their bicycle immensely.


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## Jwiffle (Mar 18, 2005)

Sounds like she may be a candidate for a Townie style bike with the pedal forward design rather than a true road bike. She'd be able to get proper leg extension while still putting feet on the ground. Bought my wife a Giant Suede, similar design. These bikes don't really work for long, hard, fast rides like on a road bike, but if she's just wanting to cruise the neighborhood, they're perfect.


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## milkbaby (Aug 14, 2009)

Maybe switch the pedals back to flat platform pedals and have her try that?

Similar to folks above, I usually keep the right foot clipped in and sit on/stand over the top tube at a stop. Then I pedal down with the right foot, push up onto the saddle, and clip in with the left foot about simultaneously. If I goof the left clip in, I just do single leg pedaling with the right foot until I get the left one in. Giving up the single leg pedaling is what your wife will give up without the clipless pedals, but then she doesn't have to worry about clipping in the left foot which should make the drill easier. She can practice a ton with the platform pedals until it is comfortable for her, and then she can switch back to clipless pedals. Good luck!


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## MattSoutherden (Jun 24, 2009)

My guess is that your wife isn't that tall?

On a normal road bike, the hub is about 340mm heigh. And bb drop is about 70mm. If you're tall, then 175mm cranks would mean that the pedal is about 9cm from the ground, and someone shorter with 165mm cranks would have the pedal 10cm from the ground.

So, for someone with shorter legs, their saddle with be proportionally further from the floor than for someone with longer legs.


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## Mr. Versatile (Nov 24, 2005)

IME the correct way to stop is to use the brakes to slow down to a slow speed like 2-3 mph. While you're still moving unclip one foot & keep the clipped in foot at 6:00. When the bike comes too a complete stop, or a couple of seconds before, put all your weight on the clipped in foot, slide forward off the saddle & put your unclipped foot on the ground. That sounds long & complicated but it's really not. Maybe you or someone else could demonstrate it for her a few times saying aloud each step in the process. 

Doing it the way outlined above it also puts you in the perfect position for starting. You're already off the saddle straddling the top tube with one foot clipped in. Use the clipped in foot to move the pedal to a starting position of 9:00 or 10:00. when it's time to go put your weight on the clipped in pedal, raise yourself onto the saddle & clip your other foot in.

If it helps you, put these directions in a 1, 2, 3, 4, etc list.


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## walter2007 (Nov 22, 2007)

milkbaby said:


> Maybe switch the pedals back to flat platform pedals and have her try that?


^^^^^^this


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## Wolfman (Jun 15, 2005)

I've got to agree with everybody else who has said ditch the clip-ins and go back to platforms for a while.

If she's not comfortable maneuvering her body *all* over the bike at speed or stopped, there's nothing gained from clipping in. She's not going to gain anything from clipping in at this point.

Drop the seat back down, put on the platforms and tennis shoes, and get out on the roads/trails on a regular basis... the trainer's not going to help... she needs real miles and a way to gain some confidence.


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