# Louis Garneau Bikes????



## hoovypedals (Oct 16, 2004)

I am a Jittery Joe's fan and would like some info on the frames they use. There is one on the classifieds and I am considering buying it but can't find any reviews on it or much info at all??? It is a VERY good looking frame and seems to be a great bike. Anybody give me some scoop PLEASE !!!! 
THANKS !! HOOV


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## collectorvelo (Oct 30, 2003)

*Motobecane Immortal*

there is a post somewhere that indicates the LG carbon frames are exactly the same as the Motobecane Immortal carbon bikes - and those have been reviewed by several magazines.

Maybe that can help


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## Lifelover (Jul 8, 2004)

collectorvelo said:


> there is a post somewhere that indicates the LG carbon frames are exactly the same as the Motobecane Immortal carbon bikes - and those have been reviewed by several magazines.
> 
> Maybe that can help


What on these two bike look at all similar?











It amazes me how people always try to claim that a moto is the same exact bike as XYZ. Why can't a moto just be a moto?


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## collectorvelo (Oct 30, 2003)

*here is the post I got the info from*

http://forums.roadbikereview.com/showthread.php?p=315306#poststop

which says - and it looks correct to me


I think some LG frames seem to be exactly the same as some Motobecane frames
does not mean either brand is good or bad - just interesting
unless of course you fell that knowing more about how bikes are made is boring

example - I find it very interesting that over 50% of Treks are made by Giant - some people may find it dull [like my wife] - some may find it offensive


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## collectorvelo (Oct 30, 2003)

*pictures*

here is the LG


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## collectorvelo (Oct 30, 2003)

*this should be it*

LG looks just like Moto


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## The The (Sep 9, 2002)

collectorvelo said:


> there is a post somewhere that indicates the LG carbon frames are exactly the same as the Motobecane Immortal carbon bikes - and those have been reviewed by several magazines.



Yes and No.

There is one LG frame that looks like the Motobecane. LG makes more than one carbon frame, so it appears to be just one model for the time being.


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## Lifelover (Jul 8, 2004)

collectorvelo said:


> http://forums.roadbikereview.com/showthread.php?p=315306#poststop
> 
> which says - and it looks correct to me
> 
> ...


In the future just take a minute to read the post before you reply. The OP very specifically ask about the frame the the JJ team rides and goes on to mention that there is on in the classifieds. Clearly he is talking about a different frame than you are.


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## collectorvelo (Oct 30, 2003)

*probably all the same factory*

just thought the fact that the Motobecane has been reveiwed in several magazines might help

LG probably uses the same factory on all carbon frames; so the fact that there is more information out there on the Motobecane might give a hint on quality or ride

however, all carbon frames seem to be about the same from what I can tell 
although I think the monocoque make more sense; some people on RBR say that glued together ones are just as good

but everyone seems to agree most come from a limited number of frame builders in Taiwan and China


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## Lifelover (Jul 8, 2004)

collectorvelo said:


> just thought the fact that the Motobecane has been reveiwed in several magazines might help
> 
> LG probably uses the same factory on all carbon frames; so the fact that there is more information out there on the Motobecane might give a hint on quality or ride
> 
> ...


Are you suggesting that coconuts migrate?


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## collectorvelo (Oct 30, 2003)

*migrates*

No
I am suggesting that Monty Phython migrates

And that you can only find out which frames are made by which sub contractors if you give the knights a shrubbery


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## Dave Hickey (Jan 27, 2002)

collectorvelo said:


> however, all carbon frames seem to be about the same from what I can tell


Nothing could be further from the truth....Even from the same manufacturer, the ride quality varies dramatically. It's no secret that I own many LOOK frames and I can tell you the difference in ride between the models varies substantially. I prefer one model for long rides and another for short fast rides. To the uneducated eye, the frames might look the same, but the ride is completely different.

For a lot of us this is not a low price, generic frame type of hobby...To suggest that all carbon frames(aluminum,steel,or Ti) are the same is just BS.....


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## collectorvelo (Oct 30, 2003)

*And to suggest*

Suggesting that some companies have special frame building methods or special geometry that others do not know about is also Bull Hockey

Frame preferrence is personal and ride feel is personal; but noone can ride every frame oou there and determine which is the one they like the best. 

Nor will the one you like the best today; be the one you prefer 2 years from now -- even if nothing else changes - you will.

So for customers to decide; they have to use guidelines
Material, geometry, price, looks, components, etc
And reviews are sometimes usefull too

Which was my entire point; OP could not find reveiws on LG bike - so he could infer from Motobecane reviews - since the Motobecane has been reviewed in several mags

Inferring may not be perfect; but without other better info - what else can be done?


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## Dave Hickey (Jan 27, 2002)

I totally agree with these statements. I never said anything different. 

YOU are the one that said all carbon frames are basically the same. My point is all carbon frames are not the same.....


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## collectorvelo (Oct 30, 2003)

*Quality*

I am sorry
I mean they all seem the same quality to me
I can see no indication that any carbon frame is higher quality than another

I have no data showing that there is even a difference between the glued together [like Look] and the Monocoque like Specialized, Motobecane, Fuji, Scott, etc

but for my money; I would buy monocoque as it makes more sense to me and I think it look much better

but for quality; I can not see nor have I heard any data on why one CF would be better quality than another. And I surely have seen no crediable claim that one brand is superieor to another


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## bwana (Feb 4, 2005)

collectorvelo said:


> I am sorry
> I mean they all seem the same quality to me
> I can see no indication that any carbon frame is higher quality than another
> 
> ...


Well then, since all frames made from Reynolds 531 use the same tube set, they must all be the same quality as well? Or Columbus Genius? Or Deda Zero Uno? And all 7005 aluminum frames must be of the same quality. All Ti 3/2.5 frames must be the same quality as well. 

Yes, if a particular model of LG is the same as the Moto but with different paint/decals, they will be the same quality. It is patently ridiculous to assume that different CF frames are all the same quality. Fiber orientation, layup techniques, tube size/shape, juncture size/shape, all of these affect the ride and quality of the frame. I know from past posts that you have doubts about glued (non-mono) frames. I sure hope you don't plan on flying any great distances in the next couple of decades, since most new jetliners (and fighters) use glued-up CF in fairly critical structures.


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## divve (May 3, 2002)

If all CF frames are of the same quality, then why not apply the same principle to other materials as well?

For you information there's a large spread in stiffness and weight numbers across the board, even from frames coming out of the same factory. It's all about design and specification...and some don't even do that such as LG. They just pick an existing nameless OEM frame they fancy and slap on their logo. It may be a good frame, it may not be. I also don't like the idea of spending money on a clone that several other manufacturers have as well.

BTW, if you like to hear about bad CF frames check out Ridley. They almost had to beg on their knees to keep Davitamon on their bikes


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## collectorvelo (Oct 30, 2003)

*fear of flying*

i knew there was a reason that i hate to fly

- on quality of frame construction
it is hard these days to tell - as everything is so good

in the old days; you could spot a frame with bad workmanship
today I do not seel that

of cpurse, I like a nice well done steel frame with lugs; but I can not say that it will last or ride better than a modern tig frame

on carbon - they all look good - that i have seen


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## hoovypedals (Oct 16, 2004)

*Wow !!!*

I didn't know I was going to get so much info??? Yes that moto fram looks like one of the LG frames, but not the one the bean team rides. I got an email from Trent Lowe and he spoke well of the bike . " It rides very well on long rides and with the compact geometry goes around corners very well. The bottom bracket is very stiff and responsive" T Lowe. That made me feel very good about the bike but I am still a little sceptical about buying it, there is not much info and people out there ridding them. It is a compact frame which I have never ridden one. I don't really know much of the ride and charecteristics that would change. I am almost the exact same size as Trent weight & height.

I guess one of my main fears is, would I be better off buying an Orca or cr1 wich are the 2 main bikes I have been looking at.

Thanks guys for all the info and discusion!!!!!! This board rocks !! HOOV


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## divve (May 3, 2002)

Without starting a "whether something is worth its price" discussion. I just don't like the idea of paying over $2000 for a frame that's identical to a no name thing you can get for $650 or so.

The below looks suspiciously a lot like one of those Pedal Force things:


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## cmatcan (Oct 6, 2005)

collectorvelo- youve gotta be crazy. carbon fibre quality DEFINITELY varies from brand to brand. i've seen Look carbon frames' insides and they're stuffed with foam....garbage. trek's look super clean and what you would expect. your statement that the quality of carbon fibre doesn't vary is just ignorant and misinformed. 
just admit that you don't know anything about anything and try to listen to the people that do.


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## brerabbit3 (Mar 20, 2006)

Carbon fiber composite structures have the highest performance potentials 
I think we can all agree that the amount of research/development the bicycle industry has put into this technology is totally and utterly dwarfed by the aerospace industry

there are tons of different ways of making carbon fiber composite structures
http://www.pactinc.com/ccs_formingmethods.html
each with their strengths and weaknesses 

1992 arguments about carbon fiber composite uses in air craft vs aluminum
http://www.eaa1000.av.org/technicl/composit/composit.htm

sheldonbrown.com on someone who made his own carbon fiber bike
http://www.sheldonbrown.com/rinard/carbonqa.htm
http://www.sheldonbrown.com/rinard/howibuil.htm

this one is longer and contains a link on how to choose your frame geometry (very interesting) and where to get supplies - neat stuff for those that have too much time on their hands

http://www.sheldonbrown.com/rinard/carbon_fiber.htm

http://exp-aircraft.com/library/alexande/composit.html

surely someone here knows a composites engineer in the aerospace industry?
perhaps they can shed an educated light on our discussions?


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## brerabbit3 (Mar 20, 2006)

*does that bike have zero gravity cranks?*



divve said:


> Without starting a "whether something is worth its price" discussion. I just don't like the idea of paying over $2000 for a frame that's identical to a no name thing you can get for $650 or so.
> 
> The below looks suspiciously a lot like one of those Pedal Force things:


that bike looks like it has zero gravity cranks


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## Major Kong (May 14, 2003)

Yeah it's Zero Gravity, because it's the Jittery Joe's-Zero Gravity team. Check out the brakes.

MK


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