# using an ultrasonic cleaner to clean cassette, chain, and rear der pulleys



## myhui (Aug 11, 2012)

What do you think? Worth an investment?

Craigslist : New 25 Liter 25L Ultrasonic Cleaner + Basket 1400W 6+ Gallons - $699 (Oceanside)


Ultrasonic frequency: 40Khz
600w Ultrasonic
800w Heaters
Adjustable Temp: 0~80C / 35~175F


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## tihsepa (Nov 27, 2008)

The worth would be questionable at 10% the asking price. It's a bike part. Just clean it off. No big deal.


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## myhui (Aug 11, 2012)

I mostly want it for the convenience. Just throw in the parts, run it for 1 hour, and they're guaranteed clean.

I've asked them for a smaller model that has maximum ultrasonic cleaning power but no heater.


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## Oxtox (Aug 16, 2006)

I can clean a cassette and a chain with an old t-shirt in about 10 min.


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## Ironbutt (Nov 30, 2001)

I used a much smaller ultrasonic cleaner that I bought at a flea market years ago. It had about a two liter capacity, no heater and was great for cleaning ball bearings, casettes, etc. It gave up the ghost about a year ago and I've not replaced it. A small pan, a parts cleaning brush and an old t-shirt do it for me now. But the ultrasonic cleaner was really great while it lasted. Be careful if you put a chain in one; it will come out with absolutely no lube on it and you will have to be careful to get it completely lubricated after cleaning.


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## ridesmasterx (Aug 3, 2013)

An old tee shirt works damn good!!!


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## Roland44 (Mar 21, 2013)

tihsepa said:


> The worth would be questionable at 10% the asking price. It's a bike part. Just clean it off. No big deal.


I personally wouldn't pay even $20 for something I can easily do with an old shirt but if it's worth it or not actually comes down to what OP thinks.


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## tka (Jun 11, 2014)

A 6 gallon cleaner is HUGE. Do you really need something that big? I have a 2.5 liter cleaner and it is a little on the small side, about the only thing I can't get in it is a 53 tooth chainring. 

If I were to do it again I'd get something in the 6-9 liter range, with heat, and a option to have the unit run continuously. Being able to use heated cleaner makes a huge difference in the cleaning ability, but you need to be a little careful. I've had the cleaner take the finish off of parts, but nothing beats it for removing that 40-year-old dried out oil in a Sturmey-Archer 3 speed hub. Or getting a Campag 11 sp chain absolutely clean before waxing it.

There are a lot of cheap ultrasonic cleaners out there and it isn't a question of if they will break but when. If your budget is pushing $700 look at a Branson. Most Branson cleaners are commercial grade and will run damn near forever without a problem.


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## myhui (Aug 11, 2012)

tka said:


> Most Branson cleaners are commercial grade and will run damn near forever without a problem.


Find a Bransonic CPX Series Dealer in Your Area

ultrasoniccleaners.com - BRANSON 2800 series

$540 - $700, including shipping in the U.S.

My favorite would be the $600 model M2800H -- With Mechanical Timer & Heater. Tank Size: 9.5" (L) x 5.5" (W) x 4" (D)

Half of a 50T chainring will fit in there. So it takes two sessions to completely clean it.

I also need to use it for my automotive servicing work, so it's multi-purpose around the house.


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## headloss (Mar 3, 2013)

Worth it to me... if I had a place for it. I'd use it on all kinds of junk. LOL


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## myhui (Aug 11, 2012)

I just ordered the Branson CPX2800H.

I'll post some before/after pictures of it cleaning my SRAM PC1091R chain.

I do have other uses for it unrelated to fixing bicycles.


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## mikerp (Jul 24, 2011)

myhui said:


> I just ordered the Branson CPX2800H.
> 
> I'll post some before/after pictures of it cleaning my SRAM PC1091R chain.
> 
> I do have other uses for it unrelated to fixing bicycles.


I use one (has a timer and heater and drain), a bit smaller than the one you posted.
Works great on chains and cassettes, pulley wheels, etc. As to doing it manually, I have more than one ride, and let this run while I do something else. Not to mention I'm saving on cleaner cost. In my case it was money well invested.


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## .je (Aug 25, 2012)

headloss said:


> Worth it to me... if I had a place for it. I'd use it on all kinds of junk. LOL


OP should sit in it and see how well it cleans a chain and cassette...


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## myhui (Aug 11, 2012)

.je said:


> OP should sit in it and see how well it cleans a chain and cassette...


That's called a washlet. Popular in Japan.

http://www.amazon.com/gp/aw/reviews/B0016NEAOM/ref=mw_dp_cr?qid=1419174220&sr=1-9


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## ljvb (Dec 10, 2014)

$85
Ultrasonic Cleaner - 2.5 Liter

Ultrasonic cleaners are useful, not just for bike parts, car parts too. Especially parts that you want to prep for sealing, gluing, epoxy, anodizing, you name it. Hell, you can clean your wifes jewelry if you wanted to  but not at $600, and certainly not 25L


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## ljvb (Dec 10, 2014)

Also, careful, I am not going to call scam yet.. but the pictures used in the CL ad, are from the Amazon marketplace item.
http://www.amazon.com/Ultrasonic-Je...221551&sr=8-5&keywords=ultrasonic+cleaner+25L


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## Lombard (May 8, 2014)

Looks to me like an unnecessary, expensive item that takes up space. Cheaper and easier to just use a scrub brush and some chain cleaner. However, if you're looking for a way to part with money, I have the super, duper, ultra deluxe version of this I can sell you for twice the price.


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## ljvb (Dec 10, 2014)

It is not completely unnecessary. It all depends on the situation. For a shop, where time is money, it makes sense, but then it is a business expense. For someone who works on a lot of different things, not just my bike and car, it might also make sense.

The biggest draw for ultrasonic cleaners, is that they get into areas where traditional methods cannot (say like cleaning a carburetor, good luck getting into the internal channels and what not).

If all you want is to clean your bike parts, it is a waste.


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## Upnorth (Jul 4, 2013)

A glass pickle jar full of Acetone does the job in under 5 minutes a lot cheaper.


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## tka (Jun 11, 2014)

tka said:


> There are a lot of cheap ultrasonic cleaners out there and it isn't a question of if they will break but when.


Well true to my own words, went to use the cleaner last night and it started up with a loud "snap". Bath heated but no ultrasonic energy. The transducer must have broke.  These cheap cleaners are getting too expensive for me. Now I'm hoping Santa will bring me a Branson ultrasonic cleaner along with that Campag Record Groupset he's shipping to me


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## myhui (Aug 11, 2012)

I bought their MC-2 cleaning chemical.

http://www.proequip.com/productlist.asp?pcid=2

I hope that's the right one to use with my drive train.

Or should I use just water mixed with some WD-40 BIKE heavy duty degreaser?

http://www.wd40bike.com/products/


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## DrSmile (Jul 22, 2006)

Upnorth said:


> A glass pickle jar full of Acetone does the job in under 5 minutes a lot cheaper.


This. I use whatever solvent is available (currently xylene). Always wear gloves... My suggested technique for a sparkling clean chain:

1) Have three quality pickle jars (you don't want them to ever break!). Fill two (Jar A and B) 1/3 of the way with solvent.
2) Place chain in Jar A. Shake vigorously for a minute. Pull chain out and wipe clean with paper towel.
3) Place chain in Jar B. Shake vigorously for a minute. Pull chain out and wipe clean with paper towel.
4) Lubricate chain, wipe, and set aside to dry.
5) After a week, the dirt from the chain will settle at the bottom of the jars. Decant Jar B into Jar C. Clean Jar B. Decant Jar A into Jar B. Repeat in another week if necessary (solvent should be clear).

Using this technique a gallon of solvent should last about 10 years. You can also use a brass or nylon brush on other parts with this method in different containers, and then just pour the solvent back into the jars afterwards.


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## tka (Jun 11, 2014)

I have no direct experience with it, however, but it looks like it should work just fine. I've been using Simple Green Extreme Aircraft and Precision Cleaner and it works great. But I'm probably going to go back to mineral spirits when this bottle runs out. I'm finding that mineral spirits is much easier to dispose of than used water-based degreaser.


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## Charlie the Unicorn (Jan 8, 2013)

I'm considering the branson b200 for cleaning my chain and cassette. I could do it by hand, but it would be much easier to pop off the chain and cassette and drop them in and do other things while they're cleaning. Incidentally, the cheapest price for this one seems to be $120 (free shipping) from their authorized online dealer:

ultrasoniccleaners.com - Process Equipment carries the largest inventory of ultrasonic cleaners in the midwest


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## WheresWaldo (Nov 29, 2005)

ljvb said:


> $85
> Ultrasonic Cleaner - 2.5 Liter
> 
> Ultrasonic cleaners are useful, not just for bike parts, car parts too. Especially parts that you want to prep for sealing, gluing, epoxy, anodizing, you name it. Hell, you can clean your wifes jewelry if you wanted to  but not at $600, and certainly not 25L


I have the same cleaner and it works as well as the larger more expensive ones. I have used it to clean nearly anything that I want all contaminants removed, not just oil and grease. Works wonders on chains and cassettes, but will also work on bearings too (with the seals removed).


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## AndreyT (Dec 1, 2011)

myhui said:


> What do you think? Worth an investment?


What exactly makes you see it as an _investment_ specifically?


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## SauronHimself (Nov 21, 2012)

I don't think that price is warranted when an old t-shirt and a toothbrush do the same job.


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## looigi (Nov 24, 2010)

T-shirt and tooth brush don't do the same job. They're great at removing external grime, but do nothing for removing internal grime in a chain, which is really what matters wrt chain longevity. Rinsing in a solvent bath will dissolve and remove caked on lube and big stuff, but fine particulates will remain stuck to surfaces. Ultrasonic waves dislodge these. I've used ultrasonic cleaners at work for critical applications since the late '70s. Where appropriate or necessary, they're great. That said, I don't bother for cycling stuff.


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## myhui (Aug 11, 2012)

AndreyT said:


> What exactly makes you see it as an _investment_ specifically?


I don't know. It just sounds cool.


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## mikerp (Jul 24, 2011)

SauronHimself said:


> I don't think that price is warranted when an old t-shirt and a toothbrush do the same job.


This has turned into one of those $$ discussions. Everyone has there own financial situation and views their spending based on it. This is no different from discussions on how much a bike costs at this point.

A heated ultrasonic cleaner with the right cleaning solution does a better job than I can do with a tootbrush and some rags. I live in a drivetrain harsh environment, the roads are covered in fine sand, if the road is dry it gets in the drivetrain, if the road is wet it's worse (as the sand floats up with the rain and gets sprayed on the bike). While I kept my drivetrains clean without using an ultrasonic cleaner, I've been able to 3x the life of a chain by using one. I can put the chain/cassette/pulleys in the cleaner and walk away, it does a better job then I can do with a toothbrush and rags, with less exposure to chemicals for me.


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## Jay Strongbow (May 8, 2010)

I could use one of those. With an aerator it would make a great bait tank for ice fishing shiners.

As for cleaning bike parts....beyond a basic acceptable level I simply don't care how clean they are and I can easily reach that level for near free with dish soap and a rag. Not to imply there's anything wrong with wanting to go further and get them ultra clean. If that's your thing, while I don't know much about these things, I'd assume it's a great tool.


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## WheresWaldo (Nov 29, 2005)

I have used an ultrasonic cleaner for nearly a decade. About two years ago bought a new heated unit from Harbor Freight. Yes, rags & toothbrush, cleaning devices that clamp over the chain also work and might be cheaper, but I have less contact with harsh solvents, and don't have to deal with the mess those chain cleaner tools leave on the floor. Dawn Dishwashing soap and water work just as well as most solvents in the ultrasonic cleaner. It was well with the $90. Whether or not a $90 cleaner will work as well as a $600 cleaner is the real question, not of using one is cost effective. As an anecdotal point of interest, I always get at least 6 months and usually more life our of a chain. This is at least 50% increase in my former chain life. With chain wearing less I also have less wear on cassettes and chainrings. You really can't put a total price on all these factors.


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## ibericb (Oct 28, 2014)

If you want to spend the coin on an ultrasonic cleaner, just do it. My experience is the Bransonics are very durable and reliable. They are the ones we used in research laboratories, day in, day out. I can never recall one quitting or not working after years and years of service.

Here's a tip that can save on cleaner volume, and make cleanup easier - you don't need to fill the tank with cleaner (unless you want to). Put the parts to be cleaned in a secondary container (glass jar or beaker works well) and add enough solvent / cleaner to cover and do the job. Put the secondary cleaner in the tank which contains clean water (half full is usually enough), and turn her on. That keeps the tank clean and makes recovery / disposal of spent solvent / cleaner easy, as well as cleaning the tank. It's probably not as efficient, but works well, and it's a whole bunch neater.


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## Doug B (Sep 11, 2009)

I have three ultrasonic cleaners at work... The $90 versions. They work pretty darn well, and last for about two years. We run them 5 days a week, 8 hours a day, as hot as they will go, with heavy parts in them. 

Intake my bike parts to work about twice a year and clean them. 

If I had the room at home, i would buy one. We normally use Simple Green and water mixed 50-50 as the solution. Works very well. After cleaning, I dunk the chain in a bowl of oil for a half hour, then remove it and wipe it down till the outside is dry.


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## Pierre (Jan 29, 2004)

I have an ultrasound cleaner that I'm using exactly for that purpose. Bought it for $36 on ebay in 2008, originally this was for cleaning jewellery, but recently I use it a lot for bike stuff. Just yesterday, I cleaned 3 cassettes and two chains with it. For strongest result I use Smart & Final heavy duty degreaser in it. Better not put lockrings or full derailleurs in it or the chrome finish gets all dull, but for chains and cassettes this saves a lot of work. I'm pretty good at cleaning things myself, but if a small and cheap machine can save me work I'm all up for it... it is just large enough to fit a cassette and a chain at the same time, so it doesn't take much extra space.




myhui said:


> What do you think? Worth an investment?
> 
> Craigslist : New 25 Liter 25L Ultrasonic Cleaner + Basket 1400W 6+ Gallons - $699 (Oceanside)
> 
> ...


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## myhui (Aug 11, 2012)

ibericb said:


> Here's a tip that can save on cleaner volume, and make cleanup easier - you don't need to fill the tank with cleaner (unless you want to). Put the parts to be cleaned in a secondary container (glass jar or beaker works well) and add enough solvent / cleaner to cover and do the job. Put the secondary cleaner in the tank which contains clean water (half full is usually enough), and turn her on.


Do you have the bottom of the jar touching the bottom of the cleaning bowl? If it is touching, I suspect the vibrations are transmitted by contact.

Come to think of it, maybe this is the way I should always use it.


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## ibericb (Oct 28, 2014)

myhui said:


> Do you have the bottom of the jar touching the bottom of the cleaning bowl? If it is touching, I suspect the vibrations are transmitted by contact.
> 
> Come to think of it, maybe this is the way I should always use it.


Yep - the secondary container sits in the water filled bath resting on the bottom of the tank. It's the only way we ever used them. The most common use was for rapid/ intense mixing of what was in the container. But we also used it the same way to clean things.


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## myhui (Aug 11, 2012)

ibericb said:


> Yep - the secondary container sits in the water filled bath resting on the bottom of the tank. It's the only way we ever used them. The most common use was for rapid/ intense mixing of what was in the container. But we also used it the same way to clean things.


Thank you.

That is a very important tip.


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## ibericb (Oct 28, 2014)

myhui said:


> Thank you.
> 
> That is a very important tip.


Not sure about important, but it's useful.

The one thing you'll want to watch out for is buoyancy of the secondary container. It's usually better to have a small enough secondary container that the liquid level inside is above that of the water in the tank. Weight helps too (glass, not plastic) You can adjust that a good bit by how much water you put in the tank. We usually filled the tank about 1/3rd to halfway, and changed the water out when it became kind of grungy, maybe once a month. Most of the time we just added clean water to make up for evaporative losses.


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## redondoaveb (Jan 16, 2011)

I picked up an ultrasonic cleaner from Harbor Freight, $67.00 with 20% off coupon. I put a diluted mixture of simple green and water in it along with my chain and cassette. Ran it through 4 eight minute heated cycles. While they were cleaning, I wiped down my bike as I had it mounted in my Park PRS-20 stand anyway. By the time I finished cleaning my bike, my chain and cassette were done. 

Chain and cassette came out looking brand new. All the grit that gathers inside the rollers of the chain was gone, all the gunk that gets in between the cogs of the cassette that I can't get to with a rag was gone. 

All in all, the ultrasonic cleaner seems like a good investment. Definitely a time saver and chain and cassette came out cleaner than they've been since they were new. 

Thanks for the tip Myhui (oh my god, did I just say that?).


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## mfdemicco (Nov 8, 2002)

redondoaveb said:


> I picked up an ultrasonic cleaner from Harbor Freight, $67.00 with 20% off coupon. I put a diluted mixture of simple green and water in it along with my chain and cassette. Ran it through 4 eight minute heated cycles. While they were cleaning, I wiped down my bike as I had it mounted in my Park PRS-20 stand anyway. By the time I finished cleaning my bike, my chain and cassette were done.
> 
> Chain and cassette came out looking brand new. All the grit that gathers inside the rollers of the chain was gone, all the gunk that gets in between the cogs of the cassette that I can't get to with a rag was gone.
> 
> ...


I bought one of those too. I restored my balky Shimano shifters with it. Paid for itself over what the LBS charged me to do one shifter.


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## myhui (Aug 11, 2012)

Did any of you use a container to hold your solvent and part, and then put that in the cleaner bowl filled with water?

The mass and stiffness of that container does affect cleaning efficiency.

I can use a thin walled and floppy Tupperware lunch container with a flat bottom. That should transmit the vibrations really well.

Or I can use a heavy Pyrex shallow dish. I think the dish will soak up most of the vibrations.

My mega $700 cleaner has arrived, but i can't pick it up just yet since I'm only going home today. I'll report back with a video on how it fares while cleaning the very grungy chain that's dripping with vegetable oil.


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## DaveT (Feb 12, 2004)

A glass container transmits vibrations extremely well, not 'soak them up'.


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## ibericb (Oct 28, 2014)

All we ever used in labs was Pyres labware - not an issue.


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## myhui (Aug 11, 2012)

How about I put five layers of food wrap at the bottom of the bowl as a liner?

Provided the solvent won't have bad reactions with the food wrap ...


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## ibericb (Oct 28, 2014)

myhui said:


> How about I put five layers of food wrap at the bottom of the bowl as a liner?
> 
> Provided the solvent won't have bad reactions with the food wrap ...


I don't know of any studies with ultrasonic cleaners, probably have been some, but from a fundamental consideration of the propagation of longitudinal (acoustic) waves, flexible will generally absorb more energy than rigid (think of foam acoustic panels), thicker will absorb more than thinner, and interfaces will tend to scatter or redirect the waves. For maximum transmission what you really want is thin, high density, and rigid, which is what Pyrex labware (beakers, flasks, etc.) is. At home, use a reasonably thin glass jar, like a pickle jar. Skip the heavy wall bakeware stuff, and avoid flexible stuff.

You really are overthinking this - put the stuff in there and buzz it up. Pretty much whatever you sue will work just fine.


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## myhui (Aug 11, 2012)

ibericb said:


> For maximum transmission what you really want is thin, high density, and rigid, which is what Pyrex labware (beakers, flasks, etc.) is.


I see what you mean now.

Put this tray into the water bath to avoid dirtying the cleaner's tub: Solid Trays by BRANSON - Ultrasonic Cleaners at Zoro










This support rack lifts the part away from the bottom of the tray: Support Racks by BRANSON - Ultrasonic Cleaners at Zoro


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## myhui (Aug 11, 2012)

I am not going to get that tray yet. I have a biologist who works in the lab every day offer to give me some Pyrex glass beakers. But this person mentioned that for cleaning metallic (stiff) parts, the container should not be glass, as the part being cleaned can crack the glass, as it's like the part is trying to drill a hole into the beaker's walls. Maybe that's why a metal tray, as sold by Branson, is the best for cleaning our bicycle parts. But let's say I get the beakers, then should I somehow avoid having the bicycle part contact the beaker? If so, how?

_(This is getting way, way more complicated than getting a $77 Ultrasonic Cleaner - Harbor Freight Tools and buzzing it for an hour without a container)_


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## DaveT (Feb 12, 2004)

You have the unique capability of making things much harder than they are. I hope you're not like this in real life.


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## myhui (Aug 11, 2012)

DaveT said:


> You have the unique capability of making things much harder than they are. I hope you're not like this in real life.


I'm wading deep outside my professional competence on this topic, and it shows.

Branson sells both plastic and glass beakers. The biologist tells me that in the lab, plastic beakers are used to contain metallic parts when they're being cleaned.


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## WheresWaldo (Nov 29, 2005)

mfdemicco said:


> I bought one of those too. I restored my balky Shimano shifters with it. Paid for itself over what the LBS charged me to do one shifter.


Yeah these are great for reviving old Shimano/SRAM mountain shifters. You know the ones that no longer click or will only shift 3 of 7 gears. Most people don't realize that it is usually just gunked up or dried grease that prevents it from shifting. A good cleaning and most times it will shift as good as new.


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## rmsmith (Feb 15, 2007)

I use Walmart Brake Cleaner aerosol spray for general cleaning, not carburetor cleaner as its too strong. If you have something beyond filthy then buy Permatex Carburetor and Parts Cleaner, which comes with a metal dip basket. Beware as this stuff will destroy anything not metallic, and use gloves as it WILL melt away your skin.


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## ibericb (Oct 28, 2014)

myhui said:


> I'm wading deep outside my professional competence on this topic, and it shows.
> 
> Branson sells both plastic and glass beakers. The biologist tells me that in the lab, plastic beakers are used to contain metallic parts when they're being cleaned.


I never had that experience with glass beakers. It was never a problem, so we didn't use anything else. So to your question of what now, I have no idea. If you want to use a metal container get a clean, empty paint can from Lowes (they have them in the paint section) with the clean-up and measuring cups and buckets. Cheap and effective. They also have plastic cups (measuring) in the same section. Choose your weapon.


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## myhui (Aug 11, 2012)

I tried a plastic beaker, and tried it direct, and of course when it's direct the cleaning action is much better. This is the last piece. The chain, cassette, and rear der have been cleaned both ways. I'm cleaning this piece direct only since it's too big for a beaker. I'm using Branson's MC-2 concentrate and it's quite gentle on the metal finishes.









This thing reminds me of Korean bath houses ...


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## myhui (Aug 11, 2012)

All done:



I put the chain down sideways on the tile kitchen counter, and put dabs of oil onto each chain joint. I'll leave it like that for 30 minutes so it'll soak through to the other side. Meanwhile, I'll go clean the crank spider by hand.

The other place I put oil is on the jockey wheel bearing of the rear der. Since the whole rear der was soaked in the bath, I also tried to lube the main joints, but they're difficult to get to. I hope the bath won't remove too much lubricate. It feels smooth though.

That's all the lubrication I'll do this time around. Last time, I way over-did it by "pouring the remaining dish full of lubricant onto the chain and cassette". I won't do that again; and neither should you, unless you're taking your bike to the EPA to do a mileage test (as that's what Toyota did once, but was caught red handed).

The ultrasonic cleaner's manual says that one should not put a part down on the bottom of the bowl, since that's where the sonic waves are generated, so if the part has any mass at all, it'll soak up the waves and lead to less effective cleaning. I think they want the waves to only be transmitted from the bowl to the cleaning liquid, and then onto either your beaker or your part, but never directly from the bowl to the beaker or from the bowl to the part. So I bought their wire mesh tray and support tray for next time, as well as for using this in other applications like in a biology lab.


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## Bob Ross (Apr 18, 2006)

Oxtox said:


> I can clean a cassette and a chain with an old t-shirt in about 10 min.


So can I...but the question is _will_ I? 
And the answer is "Not as often as I would if all I had to do was throw the part into an ultrasonic cleaner and hit the On button."


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## ridesmasterx (Aug 3, 2013)

Bob Ross said:


> So can I...but the question is _will_ I?
> And the answer is "Not as often as I would if all I had to do was throw the part into an ultrasonic cleaner and hit the On button."


On the flip side ......... there is no way that I'm taking a cassette off every time it needs a simple cleaning!!!! T-shirts rule


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## myhui (Aug 11, 2012)

I became obsessed with this stuff.

The lock ring on the cassette still had some deposits on the threads.

So I popped it in again for a 15 minute buzz.

Now it's perfectly clean.


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## ibericb (Oct 28, 2014)

myhui said:


> I became obsessed with this stuff.


We already knew that. :yesnod:


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## myhui (Aug 11, 2012)

ibericb said:


> We already knew that. :yesnod:


Well, it's better to be known for that than for many other things.

Once more I failed to easily remove the SRAM Red BB30 crank arm from the bottom bracket. Do you insert the hex key on the non drive side? The drive side crank is integrated with the spider as one piece. The spindle pushes into the non drive side crank arm, right? Hence the goal is to separate the non drive side crank arm from the spindle, right?


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## tihsepa (Nov 27, 2008)

myhui said:


> I became obsessed with this stuff.
> 
> The lock ring on the cassette still had some deposits on the threads.
> 
> ...


What a pain in the ass. For a lock ring and chainrings. Jeebus, I agree with the other post. You make this way too difficult. It's a tool not a jewel. 
Again, pain in the ass.


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## ibericb (Oct 28, 2014)

myhui said:


> Well, it's better to be known for that than for many other things.
> 
> Once more I failed to easily remove the SRAM Red BB30 crank arm from the bottom bracket. Do you insert the hex key on the non drive side? The drive side crank is integrated with the spider as one piece. The spindle pushes into the non drive side crank arm, right? Hence the goal is to separate the non drive side crank arm from the spindle, right?


See this video - complete removal and installation.


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## AndreyT (Dec 1, 2011)

myhui said:


> Once more I failed to easily remove the SRAM Red BB30 crank arm from the bottom bracket. Do you insert the hex key on the non drive side? The drive side crank is integrated with the spider as one piece. The spindle pushes into the non drive side crank arm, right? Hence the goal is to separate the non drive side crank arm from the spindle, right?


Yes, that's right.

Keep in mind that the non-drive side SRAM crank typically has two hex bolts in it, layered one on top of the other. The outer 10mm hex hole is self-extractor bolt, while the inner 8mm hex hole the actual crank bolt. 

Which one did you insert your Allen wrench into?

You are supposed to unscrew that inner 8mm one, by inserting a 8mm Allen wrench through the hole in the outer bolt. You should not even attempt to unscrew the 10mm bolt. The outer 10mm bolt is there to "extract" the crank: the inner bolt bumps into it and pushes the crank off the spindle (as you unscrew the inner bolt further and further).

The outer self-extractor bolt is installed in its final position at the factory and should not be touched after that. In fact, the outer bolt is usually threadlocked to the point where trying to unscrew it will only chew up the 10mm hex hole.



ibericb said:


> See this video - complete removal and installation.


A typical YouTube "instructional" video: absolutely correct, yet full of hidden pitfalls. The guy in the video does not understand the thinking process of a typical "Ha! I can just do it myself" newbie. Yes, the guy correctly states that you have to use an 8mm Allen wrench to remove the crank. However, it is not unusual to see someone take a look at the outer hex hole in the crank and immediately realize that it is a 10mm hex hole. The newbie then concludes that "their model" of the crank uses a 10mm bolt and proceeds to using a 10mm wrench on the self-extractor, chewing up the bolt before they realize what's going on (if ever).

To make a really useful instructional video, you have to explicitly and clearly emphasize the fact that there are _two_ bolts in there, one on top of the other. It is important to ignore the outer bolt and to work with the inner bolt only.

A quick search on the New shows how many people "advise" 10mm wrench for SRAM crank removal. And how many people report trying to turn the 10mm bolt with "nothing happening".


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## Oxtox (Aug 16, 2006)

ridesmasterx said:


> On the flip side ......... there is no way that I'm taking a cassette off every time it needs a simple cleaning!!!! T-shirts rule


no schitt.

buy an ultrasonic cleaner, buy solvent, disassemble parts, clean for an hour, wipe down, re-install parts...yadda yadda.

I just run a t-shirt around the the cogs and throw the wheel back on.

it's a bicycle, not an operating room.


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## myhui (Aug 11, 2012)

I think AndreyT is not describing a BB30 style road bike SRAM Red crank.

I'll take pictures later and upload.

There is just a smooth hole if I look at the non drive side crank. That hole is the inside of the hollow spindle.

There is no provision for a self extracting crank, thus there is no 10mm hex socket either.


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## AndreyT (Dec 1, 2011)

myhui said:


> I think AndreyT is not describing a BB30 style road bike SRAM Red crank.


Maybe. Some (all?) RED cranks have a similar two-layered bolt system on the _drive_ side.


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## myhui (Aug 11, 2012)

Oxtox said:


> it's a bicycle, not an operating room.


Sheldon Brown treats it like an operating room.


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## myhui (Aug 11, 2012)

Look at this pdf file: User Manual Road Cranksets Rev D (4.63 MB)









The non drive side crank arm is connected to the spindle. Thus I want to remove the drive side arm and spider from the spindle. All the hex-shaped surfaces are on the drive side.

So, I should use the 10mm hex drive on the drive-side crank arm's pivot and hold the drive side crank arm to keep it steady, and try to loosen it that way.


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## myhui (Aug 11, 2012)

It's so clean you can eat off of it, especially since it's vegetable oil lubricating the chain.


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## Bob Ross (Apr 18, 2006)

ridesmasterx said:


> On the flip side ......... there is no way that I'm taking a cassette off every time it needs a simple cleaning!!!!


Maybe that's why OP was talking about such a huge unit: He's not going to remove his cassette, just throw the whole wheel in there!


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## myhui (Aug 11, 2012)

Bob Ross said:


> Maybe that's why OP was talking about such a huge unit: He's not going to remove his cassette, just throw the whole wheel in there!


You have triggered my next obsession: keeping my tubeless tubular tires clean.


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## jkretsch (Aug 30, 2004)

Coming into this thread several year's late but ... I've been using an Ultrasonic cleaner to clean my bike parts for a year or so and have tried several different cleaning solutions at varying concentrations trying to find the "perfect" mix that clean chains, cassettes, etc without etching the alloy surface. Finally I have come upon a solution made specifically for aluminum alloy called Branson MC-3 and this stuff really works!! I've tried on several parts including a really dirty chain and cassette and I'm very impressed. Even the alloy lockring came out clean with no etching. This is an industrial solution this is not easy to find in small quantities but it's currently available on eBay in 1 quart bottles for $25 which is enough to make almost 4 gallons of cleaning solution.


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## aclinjury (Sep 12, 2011)

now that the thread has been dredged,....

i'm a little shocked to see that some folks are using carburetor cleaner products to clean cassettes??? Are you kiddin' me! those products are foul smelling, they can easily eat into your paint job, and they are some of the most carcinogenic stuff you can get in a can legally.

Dude, what's wrong with wiping a cassette with much more eco friendly product like turpentine and then use yarn (which is sold at any fabric shop, or buy it online for cheap) to floss out the cassette?


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## tlg (May 11, 2011)

jkretsch said:


> Finally I have come upon a solution made specifically for aluminum alloy called Branson MC-3 and this stuff really works!! I've tried on several parts including a really dirty chain and cassette and I'm very impressed. Even the alloy lockring came out clean with no etching. This is an industrial solution this is not easy to find in small quantities but it's currently available on eBay in 1 quart bottles for $25 which is enough to make almost 4 gallons of cleaning solution.


Wow. Way overkill.
Zip lock back. Splash of simple green concentrate. Fill with water. Throw it in the ultrasonic cleaner. 
I've never had a cassette not come out sparkly clean.


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