# Super Record or Delta?



## JetSpeed (Nov 18, 2002)

I'm going to be building a classic steel fixed. I want to get Super Record OR Campy C/ Delta set-up. 

What are the pro and cons of each group? I want beautiful and classic, but I hear Delta calipers are not that good and are hard to service. 

WHAT group would you consider to be the most beautiful, classic, and functional?


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## bikerjulio (Jan 19, 2010)

Corsa Record is the ultimate in Campy groups.

It improved in the areas of brakes, shifters and RD's over the years, so the later, early '90's versions work best.

So, 5th gen Deltas, Syncro 2's, late version RD's.

Mine is set up as 7-speed, and is the most precise shifting bike I have.

This is such a combo, carefully gathered over time:


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## kbwh (May 28, 2010)

That's lovely.


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## bikerjulio (Jan 19, 2010)

Thanks. It's a bit of a show bike really. Gets out about once a year.

OP, the last iterations of the Delta brakes work fine. Ideally they should be used with the matching Campy levers, because the return action is a little weak, and the Campy levers include a return spring. Mine don't have Campy levers (they are Modolo Kronos), but with careful cable routing to minimize friction they work well. Original brake pads are not really available, but you can substitute modern holders and pads. The good internals are known as "5 pivot" and look like this:









One oddity is the requirement to use a 3.5mm hex key to tighten up the cable holding screw (12). Readily available here in Toronto, but not so much in the US. Expect to pay $300 for a set of Deltas in good condition, less if showing more signs of use.

Cranks of this generation require a 111mm BB. Currently available Centaur BB's are 111mm and work nicely.


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## Cinelli 82220 (Dec 2, 2010)

End cut wire cutters help a lot if you use Delta brakes. You can fit the cable and snip it off right close to the bolt #14 in the above diagram.


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## JetSpeed (Nov 18, 2002)

WOW Biker, a wealth of info so far. Do you happen to know the last year of "Gen 4 Delta" off hand? How would I be able to tell when buying??

I still need Campy hubs, wheels, and crank info . . . . . . (later though) (;-)


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## bikerjulio (Jan 19, 2010)

1993 was the last year for the Deltas.

The late ones had black rubber accordion covers, earlier ones are light grey. Best though is to look at a photo of the internals with the cover removed. Sellers of Deltas should do this anyway.

Here is an example of the earlier design. What NOT to buy. These were OK for a mild retardation of speed, but not actual braking!









The full group, pretty much like mine, except that I have the earlier hubs, is here: http://www.retrobike.co.uk/gallery2/d/118802-2/1993+Campagnolo+Catalog.pdf


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## JetSpeed (Nov 18, 2002)

I assume it would be easy to replace the grey covers with new black ones right? Is there any other way to tell the difference? 

Say I bought newish (93') Delta calipers and wanted to mate it with late model Campy Super Record brake leavers (NOT BRIFTERS) do you know of any compatibility issues??

Thanks again . . .


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## bikerjulio (Jan 19, 2010)

JetSpeed said:


> I assume it would be easy to replace the grey covers with new black ones right? Is there any other way to tell the difference?
> 
> Say I bought newish (93') Delta calipers and wanted to mate it with late model Campy Super Record brake leavers (NOT BRIFTERS) do you know of any compatibility issues??
> 
> Thanks again . . .


Gen 1's are very obviously different:

Also Croce d' Aune, which have the old internals (to be avoided) and external springs.

However, it's not so easy to tell them apart with later generations. In looking at images I now see that Gen 4 was 5-pivot but had white accordions. There were subtle external differences, but it's not easy. 

The only safe way to confirm type is to see the internals.

I don't think you'd have a problem with earlier levers. Just make sure the cable runs nice and freely.


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## JetSpeed (Nov 18, 2002)

All good stuff.


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## bikerjulio (Jan 19, 2010)

This guy has done a nice job of putting together pictures of each generation:

campagnolo delta brakes: Campagnolo C Record delta brake calipers

There are 5, I had forgotten one generation. Went back to edit my earlier posts. So, what I have is gen 5. Gen 4 also has the 5-pivot internals. Gens 1, 2, and 3, and the Croce's have the 3-pivot internals


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## JetSpeed (Nov 18, 2002)

Nice.


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## JetSpeed (Nov 18, 2002)

I'm actively hunting 2 Delta levers and front and rear brakes. Two questions:

1. Can I route the brake cables UNDER the bar tape rather than old school cables forward and above the stem "in the way"?

2. Can I use today's Campy cables WITH the deltas or do Deltas require any specific cable?


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## bikerjulio (Jan 19, 2010)

JetSpeed said:


> I'm actively hunting 2 Delta levers and front and rear brakes. Two questions:
> 
> 1. Can I route the brake cables UNDER the bar tape rather than old school cables forward and above the stem "in the way"?
> 
> 2. Can I use today's Campy cables WITH the deltas or do Deltas require any specific cable?


You can route the cables under the tape. As I said, the only proviso is to minimize sharp bends and unnecessary friction.

Brake cables have been the same for a long time. Modern Campy brake cable is fine.


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## JetSpeed (Nov 18, 2002)

Been a slow-go finding gen 4/5 Deltas on ebay. I didn't think it would be that hard. I can find a few early gen opportunities, but I'm holding out. 

How much better is the later gen's? Worth holding-out for? 

IF I decided not to do Deltas (which I doubt), what other options are there for NON brifter levers and maybe calipers? I like classic silver so, maybe Athena calipers . . . . .


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## bikerjulio (Jan 19, 2010)

JetSpeed said:


> Been a slow-go finding gen 4/5 Deltas on ebay. I didn't think it would be that hard. I can find a few early gen opportunities, but I'm holding out.
> 
> How much better is the later gen's? Worth holding-out for?
> 
> IF I decided not to do Deltas (which I doubt), what other options are there for NON brifter levers and maybe calipers? I like classic silver so, maybe Athena calipers . . . . .


Just did a search and came up with several. Many owners don't know what they have exactly. Title here says "3rd gen" but they are 5th

Campagnolo C Record Delta Calipers A500D 5 Pivot 3rd Generation Vintage Campy | eBay

getting even more pricey though.

Athenas from the '90's are nice too, and not nearly as expensive.

like these

Campagnolo Record Chorus Athena Monoplanner Brake Caliper SET Front Rear Nice | eBay


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## JetSpeed (Nov 18, 2002)

Jeez, thanks. I never considered the older Athena's. They are pretty and nicely priced as well. 

I saw the Deltas you posted. It looks like the covers are fairly scratched. Maybe its the photo. I guess I have to be my own detective as they come up. Thanks again!


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## bikerjulio (Jan 19, 2010)

JetSpeed said:


> Jeez, thanks. I never considered the older Athena's. They are pretty and nicely priced as well.
> 
> I saw the Deltas you posted. It looks like the covers are fairly scratched. Maybe its the photo. I guess I have to be my own detective as they come up. Thanks again!


They don't look too bad. Pictures can exaggerate.

I sold off a bunch of stuff a year ago including a set of mint Gen5 Deltas for about $350. Should have held on.


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## JetSpeed (Nov 18, 2002)

The guy who has the scratched Deltas' just posted better pics up close. They are as scratched as I believed especially for the price. \

FWIW . . . Campagnolo C Record Delta Calipers A500D 5 Pivot 3rd Generation Vintage Campy | eBay

Anyone know if ALL Campy brake levers will work with Delta calipers? I want to make sure I'm not assuming/overlooking this detail on my build. I'd hate to find out I have a compatibility issue between levers and Delta calipers after I've bought the items.

Like these. Does the right lever look misaligned with hood at top? Is it an issue??? UPDATE: I emailed the seller and he said, "it is from use, will be covered when hoods are installed." Wadda" ya' think??

Campagnolo Super Record Levers Tommasini Pantograph Panto Used Nice | eBay



Super Record levers . . . drilled. Drool . . . . 

Vintage Campagnolo Super Record Brake Levers Near Mint Except for The Hoods | eBay


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## JetSpeed (Nov 18, 2002)

Figures. I found a matching group of new Athena. After quizzing the guy about condition, he finds a rather large tear/piece of missing rubber hood. he also has the lowest feedback rating: 75%. I offered $100. He counter offered for $350.00 Too funny. Oh well . . . gives me more time to find later gen Deltas I guess . . . . UUUGGGGGG!


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