# Trainers with power readings and virtual workouts



## FSonicSmith (Jan 2, 2003)

I have gone through all the current posts in this forum and am a bit surprised to see no discussion of the many new products out there competing with the RacerMate Computrainer. Among others, I am talking about the Cyclops Powerbeam Pro, the Tacx Bushido, and the Lemond Revolution. I just hired a coach for the first time and I have an old simple Tacx resistance trainer. For the last seven years or more, I have spent the off-season on weeknights after work doing various Spinervals and Chris Carmichael video workouts based on nothing more than feel and some knowledge of periodic training. Weekends I am outside whenever possible unless the roads are totally non-rideable. I am looking for something that can give me virtual workouts with a hooked up PC and flat panel display and for the coach, I need reliable power readings that can be stored and e-mailed and all of the above candidates fit that bill. 
There is great guy out here in cyberspace who has been doing very in-depth reviews (going by "DC Rainmaker") and I have read all of his. His review of the Cyclops Powerbeam is a bit outdated and I understand that many more virtual workouts are now available. So my question is-what are you guys training on and what do you recommend for an easy to use trainer with reliable power readings and virtual workouts at the $1200 price point, more or less?


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## RaptorTC (Jul 20, 2012)

At that price point I'd just get a Power Tap hub and a subscription to trainer road (if they support your trainer). That way you can take your power meter out on the road with you rather than just having it on the trainer.


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## spade2you (May 12, 2009)

RaptorTC said:


> At that price point I'd just get a Power Tap hub and a subscription to trainer road (if they support your trainer). That way you can take your power meter out on the road with you rather than just having it on the trainer.


Agreed. Those trainers are all really nice, but I eventually transition from riding indoors in the winter to outdoors during the summer. I'd prefer that I can continue to get that info when I'm on the road.


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## tpgrole (Aug 20, 2009)

TrainerRoad might work for you. It would offer consistent power values as long as you use the same psi and resistance set up on your trainer. The power numbers may or may not be accurate, but you could still track progress and improvements. If you could borrow a Powertap wheel, you might be able to tweak your set-up/psi to be more accurate as well as consistent.


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## FSonicSmith (Jan 2, 2003)

Well, I appreciate the advice about getting a powertap and using it on the trainer and using TrainerRoad for the video software but that is not the direction I want to go in. I want a more deluxe resistance trainer anyway. I happen to use my resistance trainer even during racing season. I happen to believe that absent racing, the best training is done indoors and not out. And on top of all that, my old Tacz has seen better days and I can't believe it hasn't given up the ghost but it surely can't last much longer.


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## plantdude (Sep 29, 2011)

I'm doing the same search you are: to upgrade my current system (a full Kreitler station), but the primary piece I'm missing is the power. So for me, a Powertap wheel might make sense since I already have an Edge 800 to capture the data.

That being said, the route I was considering was going with a cyclops trainer bike like the 400/410 (not the mag trainer). Have you considered that as an option?

I do agree with you, that the quality of training indoors is much higher than outdoor rides...


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## Doc_D (Mar 16, 2006)

I've got a Cycleops pro indoor bike and love it. It has a power meter in it. It isn't the version with the virtual rides though as its a few years old.

I much prefer the dedicated indoor bike to riding my road bike (which also has a powertap) on a traditional trainer.


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## ziscwg (Apr 19, 2010)

Doc_D said:


> I've got a Cycleops pro indoor bike and love it. It has a power meter in it. It isn't the version with the virtual rides though as its a few years old.
> 
> I much prefer the dedicated indoor bike to riding my road bike (which also has a powertap) on a traditional trainer.


One of the nice things about this set up is that it's always ready to go. No tire or wheel to swap. Or, no prematurely worn out rear tire.


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## Alex_Simmons/RST (Jan 12, 2008)

Not all the trainers you mention are the same. Some have a programmable load controller, but the Lemond revolution does not - it's just a trainer where the load is dictated by the rider.

Of the 3 mentioned that have programmable resistance, the Computrainer has the most robust and accurate hardware, and has the best (3rd party) software available (PerfPro & ErgVideo).

PerfPro software can also work with regular trainers, enabling a TrainerRoad type experience (pre-set workouts, lots of on screen visuals and guides, interface with ANT+ power meters if you have one, or use power estimators, synchronises with training videos such as Sufferfest etc), but as a one-off software purchase rather than subscription based.

I use PerfPro and CT but am in no way affiliated with them.


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## cyclesport45 (Dec 10, 2007)

+100 for Lemond Revolution (it just FEELS more like riding), with Trainer Road and its virtual power. And, and, Sufferfest videos to up the pain factor even more. Accurate (from workout to workout, anyways) and all I needed to purchase for power was an ANT + stick and wireless speed/cadence sensor ($50 bucks!. But I don't use power outside, so this post may be useless. ($50 bucks!!)


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## serious (May 2, 2006)

FSonicSmith said:


> Well, I appreciate the advice about getting a powertap and using it on the trainer and using TrainerRoad for the video software but that is not the direction I want to go in. I want a more deluxe resistance trainer anyway. I happen to use my resistance trainer even during racing season. I happen to believe that absent racing, the best training is done indoors and not out. And on top of all that, my old Tacz has seen better days and I can't believe it hasn't given up the ghost but it surely can't last much longer.


If you don't want to abuse your race bike on a trainer, the CycleOps 400 Pro system, with virtual training, is probably a good option. Search for "CycleOps 400" and you will find a thread with a long and detailed review by one of the members.


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## SwiftSolo (Jun 7, 2008)

I have a powertap on my tarmac and a 410 indoor cycle with virtual training. The indoor trainer duplicates my outdoor rides accurately and take the boredom out of indoor training. I'm mostly into climbing but it is difficult to ride above 2800 feet here in the winter (snow) and the 410 allows me to ride my summer rides all winter. My rollers are now setting idle and it is not likely that I'll subject myself to that tedius boredom any time soon.



FSonicSmith said:


> Well, I appreciate the advice about getting a powertap and using it on the trainer and using TrainerRoad for the video software but that is not the direction I want to go in. I want a more deluxe resistance trainer anyway. I happen to use my resistance trainer even during racing season. I happen to believe that absent racing, the best training is done indoors and not out. And on top of all that, my old Tacz has seen better days and I can't believe it hasn't given up the ghost but it surely can't last much longer.


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## ToffieBoi (May 1, 2011)

I have a Elite Crono In/Out trainer, where I can see my pedaling power.

The results shown in the PowerTap was almost like 50% less than the trainer.


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## SwiftSolo (Jun 7, 2008)

I,m seeing nearly identical numbers on my powertap and the cycleop 410. I did find in the beginning that it was harder to develop the same wattage indoors as out. With time (and moving to the cool garage with a big fan) that has mostly disappeared. 

I noticed the same issue when riding my emotion rollers on my bike with a powertap. I never had the mental endurance to stand being on the rollers longer than about 75 minutes and that was after months of use. Virtual training makes the time fly especially when you choose to use your previous ride as a virtual partner to race against. You continually see that guy behind you and it creates a real desire to drop him.



ToffieBoi said:


> I have a Elite Crono In/Out trainer, where I can see my pedaling power.
> 
> The results shown in the PowerTap was almost like 50% less than the trainer.


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## Duane Gran (Feb 3, 2004)

You sound like you are serious about getting in your workouts during the winter and you don't lack motivation, but you want something of a higher quality if you are going to spend that much time sweating in the basement. I was in a similar spot a few years ago and I researched the many options and settled on the CompuTrainer. Two years later and I still think it is the best money I've ever spent on bike equipment.

It isn't the sexiest setup, but it is quite accurate when calibrated and its hard to break it. There are some systems with more entertaining visuals, but after the initial experience everything will get old. Most CT users gradually shift into using the power training mode with erg or slope resistance and watch something on a separate video player.

If I had to choose between a powertap or a CT I would do the CT. Until you have spent some quality time doing erg-based workouts you won't know what the next level is like. In an ideal world you would have power meters on every bike and a spare one too, but most people ride the trainer to economize on trainer time and enjoy longer rides during the summer months. I don't need a power meter to tell me that I'm doing my L2 workout, but I do need one to know that I'm on the razor's edge between L4 and L5 during the winter.


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## hamsey (Aug 16, 2010)

Love my bushido. Lets me do climbs that I could not do in my neck of the woods. Definitely stronger using the trainer. Going to try and use it year round this year when it gets hot and humid in the summer. Was looking at the computrainer but decided on the bushido for ease of setup. Swap tires and off you go. No messing with wires.

Accuracy, I do not have a power meter but from what I have read on the Tacx forums it is pretty close within the range of error.


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## Creakyknees (Sep 21, 2003)

That stuff is above my pay grade. Earbuds, srm and a rockin playlist for me.


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## serious (May 2, 2006)

Creakyknees said:


> That stuff is above my pay grade. Earbuds, srm and a rockin playlist for me.


I would agree, but for those who have to deal with long, cold winters, it is a good investment. Many of us are looking at base training indoors and having a decent setup when doing 12-14 hours per week is somewhat necessary to our sanity.


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## scottma (May 18, 2012)

I invested in a Computrainer last year and have no regrets. I also spent some $ on Ergvideos. The erg power based workouts are really better than the grade or slope based rides. I use an old bike on the trainer and just leave it there.


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## FSonicSmith (Jan 2, 2003)

I went for the Cycleops Powerbeam Pro. It no longer comes with the Joule 3 head unit. You have to get the Joule GPS to get a head unit and it is apparent that Saris/Cycleops decided most buyers don't need the head unit since they want to do the virtualtraining rides and will have a display of some type (laptop or laptop with flat panel TV display). Instead, they throw in the VirtualTraining software and USB tranmitter/receiver which goes for $350 separately. 
Being an Apple MacBook Pro guy, I also bought a new PC laptop and yesterday was my first day with both the new laptop (a Lenovo Y580) and the new trainer. I could not get VirtualTraining to download properly. This morning I called Saris/Cycleops and let me just say that "Customer Service is everything and Saris has good CS!". "Matt" at the Wisconsin office used the Saris remote-access software to get into my laptop and set everything up for me. Turns out that one of my USB ports was not getting good connectivity and he detected that using a different USB port would solve the problem and it did. 
So, buy based on customer service as well as features and buy Saris/Cycleops! Now, can anyone here give me advice on great routes in the VirtualTraining software to download? So far I have Alp D'Huez and something called IMAZ Loop.


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## eriku16 (Jul 27, 2011)

I've seen Powerbeams going for about less than half price used on ebay. They seen like very sturdy and robust trainers, but I wonder why so cheap? In comparison, Computrainers are still fetching hefty prices used. I'm guessing as to why because they have been around forever and are in more demand.


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## Alex_Simmons/RST (Jan 12, 2008)

FSonicSmith said:


> and something called IMAZ Loop.


I can't give you any course suggestions, but anything with IM or HIM in title usually refers to Ironman or half Ironman bike leg, and the AZ presumably is Arizona.


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