# Finished Master



## Alex_C (Aug 21, 2006)

Cross post from the retro forum...

In college I had a steel Ciocc - blue with white bits and campagnolo - some record, some not. Its the bike I remember well - first race, lots of time spent cleaning, rode it everywhere, you know the drill.

This past year I had my carbon Pinarello reparied by Calfee after the top tube was shattered in a crash and bought a Moots while I was waiting for the insurance to get straightened out. While it was nice and comfortable it just didn't feel stiff in the bottom bracket area and in my mind I think it was only a temporary solution.

I built the moots from scratch and wanted to do the same here, but make it somewhat in the same vein as my original bike from almost 20 years ago. So I found a steel master in my size on ebay and had it shipped across the continent. Beautiful blue Zabel color with chrome accents.

In my mind this bike was all steel and blue with some white parts. I did not envision the carbon wheels on this bike - that was an accident. 6 months into it I had the cranks, shifters and drive train from auctions. Handlebars took some trial and error - I went with Deda newton shallows and thought I could match the stem, but alas that didn't work. Then I found the velo orange stem and it started to come together with the "noodle" bars. Not a big fan of the logo on the stem, but love the handlebars. The Deda's are up for sale-brand new.

<img src="https://i70.photobucket.com/albums/i95/ecorbishley/Bike%20Stuff/IMG_2778.jpg" border="0" alt="Photobucket"></a>

<img src="https://i70.photobucket.com/albums/i95/ecorbishley/Bike%20Stuff/IMG_2765.jpg" border="0" alt="Photobucket"></a>


The nokons take time to install, (a glass of wine helps) but I like them, they are very flexible and have a direct feel to them. I've used them on my mojo for the tight turns they work beautifully. The handlebar tape took some work - it is the fizik dual tape with light blue accents. White seat rounds out the color scheme. I need some chrome colnago bar plugs...


<img src="https://i70.photobucket.com/albums/i95/ecorbishley/Bike%20Stuff/100_0925.jpg" border="0" alt="Photobucket"></a>

The final two pieces to bring it all together were the aero campagnolo seatpost and a *beautiful *set of delta brakes. I don't have any pictures that justify them on the bike yet and I need to move the mount bolts up about 10 mm. Here they are by themselves. They are like jewelry.


<img src="https://i70.photobucket.com/albums/i95/ecorbishley/IMG_2743.jpg" border="0" alt="Photobucket"></a>

<img src="https://i70.photobucket.com/albums/i95/ecorbishley/Bike%20Stuff/IMG_2762.jpg" border="0" alt="Photobucket"></a>


Back to the carbon wheels. These are from my other bike and I was only using them to get some of the fit measurements right, but when I stood back and looked at the bike with them it struck me as a striking combination. No logos with black tires helps and I'll never be able to run them with the deltas, but I like the combination. I have an all alloy set of wheels, but really want to build my own set from a set of record hubs at some point. 


<img src="https://i70.photobucket.com/albums/i95/ecorbishley/Bike%20Stuff/IMG_2759.jpg" border="0" alt="Photobucket"></a>


Unfortunately the first ride this last weekend wasn't the beautiful sunny day that the bay area is known for, but the ride was great none the less. It fits like a glove and absorbs the road well. It doesn't float like the Pinarello does, but its a nice stiff feel when you accelerate.

Here is the full build. No, I don't know how much it weighs.

Colnago Master 54
Chris King HS
*Campy*
Alloy Skeleton brakes with black holders and carbon pads
Record Cranks 53-39
Chorus 10S shifters and deraileurs
Record aero seatpost
Skewers

White hoods
White Fizik Aliante
White / Blue Fizik Tape
King Ti cages
Nitto Noodle Bars
VO stem
Reynolds DV46C
Conti 4000GPs
Frog pedals

When it gets nicer I'll have to take some decent pictures.


----------



## trunkz22 (Sep 12, 2008)

That looks awesome. Good job on the build!


----------



## fabsroman (Jul 14, 2006)

I'm jealous. I still have my steel Mino Denti from 24 years ago and ride it on occasion, but I would love a Colnago Master in Saronni. I'm going to buy the frame this spring after tax season and see what I can do about the build after that. That was the frame I wanted when my parents bought me the Mino Denti for 2/3's the price of the Colnago.

While I like the look of the carbon wheels, I would probably go with some aluminum box tubulars on Record hubs. Actually, I know that is what I would do, especially if I was trying to go with a retro look.


----------



## iyeoh (Jan 6, 2005)

If you like deep rims and if that is an 8 speed or 9 speed drivetrain, look at the first generation Campagnolo Shamals with shiny aluminum rims. It would look very nice on that bike, is aero, and it fits with the Delta brakes as well without having to change out the brake pads.


----------



## Alex_C (Aug 21, 2006)

*Rims*

Yes, I have a set of new 2006 Campy Zondas that will work with the bike.

Before I can run the Zondas I need to figure out how to move the bolt inside the delta brakes as the reach is not low enough in the current setting. Hopefully it can be done without taking them totally apart.


----------



## iyeoh (Jan 6, 2005)

I have serious doubts that the Deltas will work with 2006 Zondas. My knowledge of Deltas and C-record tells me that the brake pads cannot be lowered enough. You're mixing 1980s brakes with 2006 wheels. That was why I was showing you 1991 to 1994 era wheels.


----------



## Alex_C (Aug 21, 2006)

*Wheels and brakes*

When I mounted the deltas on the frame it looked like the critical measurement is the tire size. 23c and 25c will fit, bigger than that will not. Rim depth or height doesn't seem to factor into the equation unless I'm missing something. Also, I'm running 10 speed.


----------



## ctam (Apr 21, 2003)

Very nice!!

FYI - the brake shoes on your front delta caliper are on backwards.


----------



## Alex_C (Aug 21, 2006)

*Pads*

Thanks for pointing that out. I checked them, oddly the right brake pad is, the left one isn't and the rear is set up the same way; one forward, one back. 

Since I won them in the auction I have yet to use them, they are so damn beautiful. I mounted them up here to show iyeoh that they do indeed clear current wheel sizes. The bike is now back to the skeleton brakes with the carbon rims.


----------



## The_Kraken (Jul 28, 2009)

*Cobalto*

Think Cobalto Brakes.


----------



## fabsroman (Jul 14, 2006)

The_Kraken said:


> Think Cobalto Brakes.


That is what I was going to suggest. Plus, from what I have heard the cobaltos were/are better at stopping than the deltas.


----------



## Squeegy200 (Dec 1, 2005)

fabsroman said:


> That is what I was going to suggest. Plus, from what I have heard the cobaltos were/are better at stopping than the deltas.


The Record Delta Brakes are beautiful. The only reason to use them would be for the nostalgia factor and the visual aesthetic. They are heavy and are a challenge to setup properly. 

Functionality aside, they get far more attention on group rides than cobaltos, zero gravs, or any other exotic brakes one can fit onto a bicycle. 

I am convinced they were designed to have the greatest mechanical advantage with rims from the same era. Most of the rims made by Campagnolo at the time, were ~22mm in width such as the Campagnolo Omicron box rim. Most of the aero profile rims made today are much more narrow. I've set them up successfully with Mavic Open Pros which were 20mm wide. This works however--to adjust the arms properly, the arms are partially extended outward


----------



## Alex_C (Aug 21, 2006)

*Set up*

I've heard that as well - that the arms should be set up not close to the rim. This is somewhat similar to my setup on the record brakes - I don't like them right next to the rim like some folks do.


----------



## brewster (Jun 15, 2004)

There's a lot mis-information out there about Deltas. True, they are more complicated to setup but they work very well with modern Ergo levers. I think it has to do with the return spring strength and pull amount of the modern levers. They are buttery smooth and require just a finger's amount of force. You can't set the pad distance up like most caliper brakes, they won't be able to build up the correct amount of force on the rim, which is why they get the bad wrap about not having much stopping power. They need to be much further from the rim to work correctly.

They may be some grams heavier than modern brakes, but you'd need a scale to determine a weight difference between 5th Gen Deltas and Dura Ace 7401 dual pivots from the same era. I was shocked when I recieved mine, since I was expecting them to be the boat anchors everyone had said they were.

They are an engineering marvel to be sure, but probably more complicated than most people were willing to accept in a bike part that had only one job. Once setup, there is no denying the appeal....


----------



## Alex_C (Aug 21, 2006)

*Key points*

Brewster,

Do you have any keys to precise setup?

I have the 3.5mm wrench, measured the length of the cable to get it exactly right and figured out how to get them positioned correctly for the height of the rims. I also won't place the arms very close to the rim edge. 

Any other keys to success you can add?

Thanks.


----------



## brewster (Jun 15, 2004)

Alex, You have most of it already. Next time I go to change cables, I think I'd pre- measure the distance of the pads with the wheel in. Both pad to pad and note the pad to rim distance on either side. There should be a generous 2-3 mm on each side of the rim. It's kind of trial and error though. 

These things were designed to be good modulators, meaning they would slow just a little with a pull, because that is most of the time what you're doing in a pack. They will do emergency stops with a hard pull but are designed to avoid the dreaded lock up. They will not ever lock the rims with one finger like some Dura Ace 7401 dual pivots. The Campagnolo philosophy is that this is a bad thing because you loose control when the wheel locks and you start skidding. But you certainly can lock up the wheels with Deltas, but you have to really pull the lever hard.

Anyway, then I'd take the wheel out and have somebody hold the brake arms at that distance you measured beforehand while you pull and tighten the cable at the securing nut. Tighten, check and then cut the excess cable. Don't pre-cut it, you'll have a mess.

Also, initially I thought I could bend the cable tail and tuck it into the body of the caliper, but you can't. It doesn't allow the brake to work right. You just have to cut it off short once tightened with no end cap. There will probably be a little tail that pokes out the caliper bottom hole. Just make sure it is as short as possible and doesn't interfere with the tire once back in place. 

Also, since you have no cable tail, if you need to make adjustments to the cable, you pretty much looking at a new cable and starting all over. It's a bit of a hassle, but I haven't touched mine in about a year and haven't really needed any adjusting, so I'm ok with it if I only have to do it once a year for new cables.

Once all back together and wheel in, if you've got it right, watch the brake work with the cover off. You'll see the mechanism throw the arms to the rim. The further they move, the more force is built up. If the brakes don't stop with convincing force, 9 times out of 10 it's because they are set too tight and close to the rim to start. Again, you have to forget everything you know about how caliper brakes work...these are a different animal.

One other resto tip. Those Delta rubber "O" rings that most of the time are missing or cracked can be found at Home Depot in the hardware small parts section, The o-rings you see in the picture above are 10 cent replacements.

brewster


----------

