# Confusion determine winner last stage



## lawrence (May 17, 2005)

I confused about how the winner is determined for the TdF.

They announced today that Cadel Evans is going to win the TdF tomorrow. 

Please clarify.

1) If Cadel is hurt or injured tomorrow, he's out of the race and doesn't win?

2) Will his team surround him to protect him? Will other riders who do not have a chance of him winning protect him?

3) Cadel is 1 1/2 minutes ahead of Andy Schleck. Is Andy allowed to push very hard and try to make up that 1 1/2 minutes and beat Cadel? If Andy has a good day and Cadel doesn't, he could make up the 1 1/2 minutes. Especially if Cadel has a bike break down or gets caught in several traffic jams or accidents as Alberto Contador had.

4) Are riders allowed to run interference for Andy and block Cadel from getting to the front giving Andy time to make up the 1 1/2 minutes?

5) Towards the end of the race, if Cadel is the winner, will everyone allow Cadel to cross the finish line first as matter of respect?


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## serpico7 (Jul 11, 2006)

Now I understand why Versus insists on Phil and Paul keeping the commentary so rudimentary.

OP, have you actually watched any stages? If you had, you would already know the answers to most of these questions.


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## atpjunkie (Mar 23, 2002)

tomorrow is mostly a parade for all but the sprinters.
They roll in like a recovery ride and enjoy snacks and bubbly (spelling correction)
They hit the Champs, roll up the tempo and the Sprinters have their last moment. They only jersey that typically can be decided tomorrow is Green.
So there will be a sprint, followed by the entire peloton so they will all wind up with the same finishing time


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## lawrence (May 17, 2005)

What happens if the difference in time is only a 1 second, wouldn't the two battle it out tomorrow?


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## Coolhand (Jul 28, 2002)

lawrence said:


> I confused about how the winner is determined for the TdF.
> 
> They announced today that Cadel Evans is going to win the TdF tomorrow.
> 
> ...


1. Yes.
2. Yes. Not needed, nobody want to crash the yellow on the last day.
3. Not happening. Sprint teams and BMC will keep it together if needed- and everyone knows that.
4. No.
5. No. This is the most important sprint stage for the sprinters. Cadel will get the 3 k to go, then get out of the way.


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## JoelS (Aug 25, 2008)

I'll give it a try....

They announced today that Cadel Evans is going to win the TdF tomorrow. 

Please clarify.

1) If Cadel is hurt or injured tomorrow, he's out of the race and doesn't win?

Correct. If Cadel doesn't finish tomorrow's stage, then Andy wins the Tour.

2) Will his team surround him to protect him? Will other riders who do not have a chance of him winning protect him?

Tomorrow is a dead flat sprint stage. There will be an early break, followed by a late chase, with the entire field coming back together on the laps in Paris. A sprinter will win from the bunch, probably Cavendish. There is no way that one of the Schlek's, etc. will be allowed by the peloton to get away in a break. That's not gonna happen.

3) Cadel is 1 1/2 minutes ahead of Andy Schleck. Is Andy allowed to push very hard and try to make up that 1 1/2 minutes and beat Cadel? If Andy has a good day and Cadel doesn't, he could make up the 1 1/2 minutes. Especially if Cadel has a bike break down or gets caught in several traffic jams or accidents as Alberto Contador had.

That is highly unlikely in the extreme.. See my response to the previous question.

4) Are riders allowed to run interference for Andy and block Cadel from getting to the front giving Andy time to make up the 1 1/2 minutes?

So long as Cadel finishes with the pack, he gets the same time as the stage winner. There would have to be a split, and his team would then work hard to bring it back together. Again, extremely unlikely.

5) Towards the end of the race, if Cadel is the winner, will everyone allow Cadel to cross the finish line first as matter of respect?

Not a chance. The green jersey is still on the line and winning the sprint on the final day is a big deal for the sprinters. Cavendish, Farrar, Petachi, Rojas, etc. will be fighting for the stage win.

Essentially, today saw the conclusion of the GC (general classification) battle and Cadel ends up wearing the yellow into Paris. Barring any catastrophic crashes, he'll be overall winner of the Tour. The polka-dot jersey (climber) and the white jersey (U25 rider) are also sewn up. The only one left in doubt is the green (sprinter) jersey.


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## Ventruck (Mar 9, 2009)

If Cadel was injured, he'd somehow will his way to the line. The peloton would likely stop or slow down significantly for Cadel if he had a mechanical.

Technically, there is nothing stopping anyone from running away with GC motives, they'd just probably be hated...a lot. I believe there was speculation/rumor that last year Andy would attack Contador because of the chaingate episode. He actually didn't do it then, and I don't see him doing it tomorrow.


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## JSR (Feb 27, 2006)

Thre is no way for the Sclecks to gain any time on Cadel. None.

The sprinters have a lot on the line. The finish will be on the traditional loop on the Champs d'Elysee. A win for Cavendish seals the green jersey for him, so HTC will be riding like madmen. Other sprint teams will do their best get their guy in for a win, so Leopard-Trek and BMC have no chance for a win.

The first part of the race will be a ceremonial club ride. Cadel and BMC will drink champagne. The jersey leaders will be photographed riding together. There will be a small flurry of activity at the intermediate sprint. As they get close to the finishing loop the pace will pick up, driven by the sprinters' teams. There will be fast finish with multiple attacks in the most spectacular location for a criterium. Cav will win.


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## terry b (Jan 29, 2004)

serpico7 said:


> Now I understand why Versus insists on Phil and Paul keeping the commentary so rudimentary.
> 
> OP, have you actually watched any stages? If you had, you would already know the answers to most of these questions.


You didnt acquire your vast storehouse of cycling knowledge via learning and asking questions? You were born with it?

I realize that the Internet isn't a kind place, but this goes beyond even that. I'm glad that there are a few people with enough decency to give the poster an intelligent answer.


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## rufus (Feb 3, 2004)

terry b said:


> You didnt acquire your vast storehouse of cycling knowledge via learning and asking questions? You were born with it?
> 
> I realize that the Internet isn't a kind place, but this goes beyond even that. I'm glad that there are a few people with enough decency to give the poster an intelligent answer.


I got mine before the internet, and got it by watching what I could of cycling on TV, and paying attention to what the announcers were saying about the race, its tactics, and its traditions, read a lot of Velo News and Winning. 

Pretty simple really, but in this day and age, everyone expects someone else to do the hard work for them, instead of investing the time and commitment themselves.


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## serpico7 (Jul 11, 2006)

rufus said:


> Pretty simple really, but in this day and age, everyone expects someone else to do the hard work for them, instead of investing the time and commitment themselves.


+1

Even the 'hard work' of simply watching a stage and paying attention.


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## Fredke (Dec 10, 2004)

serpico7 said:


> Now I understand why Versus insists on Phil and Paul keeping the commentary so rudimentary.
> 
> OP, have you actually watched any stages? If you had, you would already know the answers to most of these questions.


Wrong. Because the last stage is totally different from the other stages. If the OP had watched a number of previous tours through to the finish, your comment might have some sense, but the final stage is not like the other flat stages.

Other stages have breakaways. No one allows breakaways on the final stage because the sprinters need to have everyone together for the final field sprint. More so when the green is still in contention.

No other stages feature everyone clowning around, glad that it's all over, and champagne drinking by the winner's team on the run-in to the Champs for the final circuits.

Leaders change on other stages with great regularity. The only time I know of in recent history when the leader changed on the final stage was in 1989, when it was an ITT.

Just as a simple example, watching other tour stages, the OP would have seen big breakaways winning on flat stages. He would have seen tactics that were shaped by the knowledge that there were mountain stages yet to come. Tomorrow will be different, as the last stage always is, precisely because it's the last stage. So watching those stages would only be of limited use in understanding why tomorrow's stage will be completely different from all the other stages he watched.

It's easy to be a smart-ass, but it's both impolite and often wrong to boot.


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## Fredke (Dec 10, 2004)

lawrence said:


> What happens if the difference in time is only a 1 second, wouldn't the two battle it out tomorrow?


With a very small difference there might well be a final day battle, but it would be futile. All the sprinters' teams will want a bunch sprint down the champs, so they will work together throughout the stage to control the race and prevent big breakaways. Much more discipline than you see during the previous stages. 

And with a field sprint at the end, there is no opportunity for one GC guy to get even a second on another short of jamming a pump into his spokes.


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## serpico7 (Jul 11, 2006)

Fredke said:


> So watching those stages would only be of limited use in understanding why tomorrow's stage will be completely different from all the other stages he watched.


Because Phil and Paul don't talk about the green jersey competition and the sprint on the Champs Elysees before the final stage? That plus the totally flat stage profile doesn't make it obvious that the sprinters will bring everyone together before the sprint?

Watching stages gets a feel for the strategies and tactics. It should be clear that the sprinters' teams will reel everyone back in and that if someone tried to attack the yellow jersey, the latter's team would instantly be on the front to reel them back in, and would eventually be helped by the sprinters teams.

But I know, this is the age of teh internetz. Why stop to think when you can ask and have the answer handed to you on a silver platter?

I'm not saying don't ask questions. But whatever happened to pondering first before running to ask someone for the answer? And then, if necessary, propose the answer to more knowledgeable people to confirm the thinking is on track. Intellectual laziness. It's an epidemic.


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## Fredke (Dec 10, 2004)

serpico7 said:


> Because Phil and Paul don't talk about the green jersey competition and the sprint on the Champs Elysees before the final stage? That plus the totally flat stage profile doesn't make it obvious that the sprinters will bring everyone together before the sprint?


Phil and Paul talk about the green jersey every day. I can totally understand how a newb won't see why the sprint at the end of Stage 21 is different from the sprint at the end of Stage 7.

Note that ATP, who probably knows more about the tour and the history of bike racing than the combined knowledge and wisdom of 90% of the commenters here, gives a straight answer instead of trying to belittle a guy who has some reasonable questions.

Same for Coolio, who has a similar degree of expertise.

I'd like cycling to become more popular as a sport, but it ain't gonna do that if people are supercilious jerks whenever new fans ask questions.


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## Lynton (Jul 9, 2011)

Fredke said:


> Wrong. Because the last stage is totally different from the other stages. If the OP had watched a number of previous tours through to the finish, your comment might have some sense, but the final stage is not like the other flat stages.
> 
> Other stages have breakaways. No one allows breakaways on the final stage because the sprinters need to have everyone together for the final field sprint. More so when the green is still in contention.
> 
> ...


Well said, some others here could lighten up a bit, cyclists can be such snobs sometimes. 

For the OP, fair questions. 

1. If Cadel crashes and does not complete the final stage, AS will get his first tour yellow. Cadel will stay in the safest area of the peloton, take no risks, get involved in no sprints and his team will protect him. I have never seen a yellow jersey crash on the final run into Paris. 

2. Yes his team will protect him, as would all teams. In the eyes of the tour he has earned the win and the final stage is a celebration of that win. 

3. Andy would not be able to get away, one hint of a move and not only will BMC shut it down, but the all the teams of all the sprinters will shut it down too, the final stage is for the sprinters. No GC riders compete the last day, it is the unwritten rule that they goof off on the last day and the teams support the sprinters once the peloton move onto the Champs Élysées. As has been said the only exception was in in 1989 when it finished with a ITT in Paris and Greg Lemond beat Laurent Fignon by 8 seconds, the closest finish margin in tour history. 

4. Only if they want to break the rules and be kicked off the tour in disgrace. You are not allowed to change your line and physically block riders. The public opinion against such actions would be so strong that I suspect sponsors would probably sack a rider that is guilty of such actions. Simple answer is no, it would never be done as it would be professional suicide. 

5. No, he will roll across in the pack, out of trouble and away from the potential crashes in the sprints. The final day is all about the sprinters, only the green jersey (points jersey) contest is still competed for. The yellow, polka dot and white are all effectively over.


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## Lynton (Jul 9, 2011)

serpico7 said:


> Because Phil and Paul don't talk about the green jersey competition and the sprint on the Champs Elysees before the final stage? That plus the totally flat stage profile doesn't make it obvious that the sprinters will bring everyone together before the sprint?
> 
> Watching stages gets a feel for the strategies and tactics. It should be clear that the sprinters' teams will reel everyone back in and that if someone tried to attack the yellow jersey, the latter's team would instantly be on the front to reel them back in, and would eventually be helped by the sprinters teams.
> 
> But I know, this is the age of teh internetz. Why stop to think when you can ask and have the answer handed to you on a silver platter?


You really need to give the guy a break, perhaps he heard all those comments but did not really make the connection on what it means on the last day. I am going to assume he is watching his first tour and it has sparked an interest. 

I am sure you have asked some questions in your time, I started racing 25 years ago and I have, some that my fellow riders probably had a giggle about. The point is we help each other out, new people become interested, learn the etiquette, learn the techniques, learn the tactics and our sport grows (that is a good thing). 

It is every cyclists duty to support the sport they love, supporting the new blood in the sport is one way to do that.


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## Cinelli 82220 (Dec 2, 2010)

serpico7 said:


> OP, have you actually watched any stages? If you had, you would already know the answers to most of these questions.


He joined the forum in 2005 and has almost 2k posts. How is that a "noob"?

I think he's playing dumb.


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## Lynton (Jul 9, 2011)

Cinelli 82220 said:


> He joined the forum in 2005 and has almost 2k posts. How is that a "noob"?
> 
> I think he's playing dumb.


I know people that have ridden bikes their whole life, always been interested in bikes but never raced, never watched a tour and would have no idea. 

Perhaps the OP should clear this up.


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## atpjunkie (Mar 23, 2002)

*final day battles*



Fredke said:


> With a very small difference there might well be a final day battle, but it would be futile. All the sprinters' teams will want a bunch sprint down the champs, so they will work together throughout the stage to control the race and prevent big breakaways. Much more discipline than you see during the previous stages.
> 
> And with a field sprint at the end, there is no opportunity for one GC guy to get even a second on another short of jamming a pump into his spokes.


other than Lemond and the Professor

Joop Zoetemelk attacked Hinault (who held a 3.07 lead) in 1979. The badger chased him down and took the stage

Vino's late solo break on the Champs in 2005 raised him over Levi from 6th to 5th


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## PJay (May 28, 2004)

*another question...*

How can a guy win one day, and not be in first place?


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## PJay (May 28, 2004)

*and another question...*

if andy wanted to win so bad, why didn't he just stick his framepump in cadel's spokes on a mountain ledge downhill, when the camera was looking the other way?


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## PJay (May 28, 2004)

*yet another question...*

if the guy with that yellow shirt is in a breakaway, and has a team car behind him, why doesn't that car spill a bunch of oil on the road and totally wipe out the peleton?


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## PJay (May 28, 2004)

*and i was wondering...*

why do they wear those funny clothes?


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## PJay (May 28, 2004)

*guerilla post*

y'all, the OP was probably a hit-and-run.
just out for fun.


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## serpico7 (Jul 11, 2006)

PJay said:


> if the guy with that yellow shirt is in a breakaway, and has a team car behind him, why doesn't that car spill a bunch of oil on the road and totally wipe out the peleton?


LOL. It need not be much oil. Just a little to take out the first few riders and initiate the domino effect.



PJay said:


> if andy wanted to win so bad, why didn't he just stick his framepump in cadel's spokes on a mountain ledge downhill, when the camera was looking the other way?


Andy looks uncomfortable enough descending that I think trying to stick a framepump into Cadel's spokes is far more likely to send Andy off the mountain than Cadel.


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## alexb618 (Aug 24, 2006)

can someone explain why they don't wear underpants under their bike shorts?


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## serpico7 (Jul 11, 2006)

How come the riders don't have saddlebags? Do they keep the spare tube and tools in their jersey pockets?


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## krott5333 (Oct 2, 2009)

serpico7 said:


> Andy looks uncomfortable enough descending that I think trying to stick a framepump into Cadel's spokes is far more likely to send Andy off the mountain than Cadel.


this made me LOL


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## QuiQuaeQuod (Jan 24, 2003)

What (some) others have said, plus one more thing.

In the past riders have said that they would attack the yellow if the gap was a second or two. That's it, and even gaining a second is a tough row to hoe on the last stage.


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## rufus (Feb 3, 2004)

alexb618 said:


> can someone explain why they don't wear underpants under their bike shorts?


Makes it harder to whip it out on the side of the road when they have to go pee.


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## bas (Jul 30, 2004)

Lynton said:


> Well said, some others here could lighten up a bit, cyclists can be such snobs sometimes.
> 
> For the OP, fair questions.
> 
> ...


1st tour yellow? He had it yesterday.


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## bas (Jul 30, 2004)

Fredke said:


> Wrong. Because the last stage is totally different from the other stages. If the OP had watched a number of previous tours through to the finish, your comment might have some sense, but the final stage is not like the other flat stages.
> 
> Other stages have breakaways. No one allows breakaways on the final stage because the sprinters need to have everyone together for the final field sprint. More so when the green is still in contention.
> 
> ...


Unless you saw the 2004 final Le Tour day with Filippo Simeoni and Lance .


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## Lynton (Jul 9, 2011)

bas said:


> 1st tour yellow? He had it yesterday.


Well done, he has obviously worn yellow at the end of a stage, I was referring to a yellow in the final presentation.


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## Undecided (Apr 2, 2007)

terry b said:


> You didnt acquire your vast storehouse of cycling knowledge via learning and asking questions? You were born with it?
> 
> I realize that the Internet isn't a kind place, but this goes beyond even that. I'm glad that there are a few people with enough decency to give the poster an intelligent answer.




Most of us could often be kinder, but could you imagine how similarly basic questions about, say, the World Series, would be treated on a baseball site?


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## OES (Jan 23, 2002)

Lovely. I didn't realze only experts were allowed to post here. Thanks for clearing that up for me.

You also very nicely managed to answer the age-old newbie question 'What is an Arrogant Roadie Snob'? 

Well done, well done.





serpico7 said:


> Now I understand why Versus insists on Phil and Paul keeping the commentary so rudimentary.
> 
> OP, have you actually watched any stages? If you had, you would already know the answers to most of these questions.


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## OES (Jan 23, 2002)

The OP is under no obligtion to clear anythng up. A couple of folks here are, however, under some moral obligation to apologize to him.



Lynton said:


> I know people that have ridden bikes their whole life, always been interested in bikes but never raced, never watched a tour and would have no idea.
> 
> Perhaps the OP should clear this up.


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## OES (Jan 23, 2002)

You know, clever and argumentative as you are, there's another little forum on this board that you might want to visit when you're finished here. I'm Ed, I'll introduce you around. We're smart, we LOVE experts Like you. 



PJay said:


> y'all, the OP was probably a hit-and-run.
> just out for fun.


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## Lynton (Jul 9, 2011)

OES said:


> The OP is under no obligtion to clear anythng up. A couple of folks here are, however, under some moral obligation to apologize to him.


Sorry, not what I meant. 

I probably should have written something like "perhaps the OP could clear this up", a bit closer to the respectful request I intended rather than some form of demand or declaration of obligation.


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## Taco Brown (Dec 1, 2010)

And people say that cycling is an elitst sport.


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## Lynton (Jul 9, 2011)

Taco Brown said:


> And people say that cycling is an elitst sport.


No surely not. 

We are not elite, we are just better than everyone else.


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## asciibaron (Aug 11, 2006)

in 1975 Merckx was 3+ minutes down and attacked on the Champs forcing the yellow to chase. Eddy sat up and then let the winner take his honor. that was in response to a journalist asking how it felt to lose the TdF.


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## QuiQuaeQuod (Jan 24, 2003)

asciibaron said:


> in 1975 Merckx was 3+ minutes down and attacked on the Champs forcing the yellow to chase. Eddy sat up and then let the winner take his honor. that was in response to a journalist asking how it felt to lose the TdF.


IIRC, he attacked at the drop of the flag, after telling people he would attack at the drop of the flag. And he did get a big gap too!

He also knew he could not win unless people let him, and they wouldn't.


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## serpico7 (Jul 11, 2006)

OES said:


> You also very nicely managed to answer the age-old newbie question 'What is an Arrogant Roadie Snob'?
> 
> Well done, well done.


Thanks. Roadies gotta keep it real, ya know.

I shudder to think what will happen to road cycling if the day ever comes that roadies stop being snobs. Everyone will be riding around in baggy shorts with dork disks and valve stem caps, smiling and waving at other cyclists.

Must. Hold. The. Line.


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## atpjunkie (Mar 23, 2002)

*great idea Ed*



OES said:


> You know, clever and argumentative as you are, there's another little forum on this board that you might want to visit when you're finished here. I'm Ed, I'll introduce you around. We're smart, we LOVE experts Like you.


we can do a meet and greet


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## pretender (Sep 18, 2007)

Taco Brown said:


> And people say that cycling is an elitst sport.


More like, sports fans on message boards are d!cks, full stop. Whether it's F1, bowling, NASCAR, curling, or tennis.


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## Fredke (Dec 10, 2004)

atpjunkie said:


> other than Lemond and the Professor
> 
> Joop Zoetemelk attacked Hinault (who held a 3.07 lead) in 1979. The badger chased him down and took the stage
> 
> Vino's late solo break on the Champs in 2005 raised him over Levi from 6th to 5th


Lemond & the prof was different (ITT), but I always love to learn from your erudition in the sport re: 2005 and 1979.


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## OES (Jan 23, 2002)

Ever since Lemond-Fignon, the most exciting Tour finish of MY long lifetime, I've thought a glorious tradition could be built on deciding all the marbles on a finishing ITT into Paris, on that same route, instead of the lame ceremonial last day we cringe through now.

The sprinters will howl, but make Saturday's penultimate stage a pancake flat, 6-lane-showcase finish for them, another great tradition sitting there for the taking.

Then, with all other jerseys settled, a final ITT showdown on Sunday for the big cape and the podium. 

Make the entry into Paris matter.



Fredke said:


> Lemond & the prof was different (ITT), but I always love to learn from your erudition in the sport re: 2005 and 1979.


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## atpjunkie (Mar 23, 2002)

*agreed (about Lemond / Fignon)*



Fredke said:


> Lemond & the prof was different (ITT), but I always love to learn from your erudition in the sport re: 2005 and 1979.


I forgot, Merckx attacked in 75, but it was more of a statement. He knew it was doomed. A Belgian fan should have come out and punched Thevenet.

Eddy broke his cheek in a later stage and was advised to abandon. He continued on, knowing his 2nd place finish would be a good pay day for his domestiques.


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## terry b (Jan 29, 2004)

rufus said:


> I got mine before the internet, and got it by watching what I could of cycling on TV, and paying attention to what the announcers were saying about the race, its tactics, and its traditions, read a lot of Velo News and Winning.
> 
> Pretty simple really, but in this day and age, everyone expects someone else to do the hard work for them, instead of investing the time and commitment themselves.


Okay, so let me get this straight. Someone who is clearly new to the minutiae of the Tour can expect to be body-slammed for asking a pretty simple question? They're not allowed to ask for help on a cycling forum stacked with tons of experts because they have not proven themselve by watching lots of television and reading magazines? And they should go on ignorant instead of asking for help.

And asking a question is indicative of "not wanting to do the hard work"?

Makes perfect sense to me now.


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## OES (Jan 23, 2002)

Why do you hate people who know everythng already, and look down their noses at those who don't?

The hilarious back-blow on the snobs is, they DON'T know everythng. Most of those questons had terrific relevance on the last day of Tours in our lifetime. And the answer is: Sure, if Andy had wanted to essay the attempt, he was within his rights to do so. The obstacles would be formidable, but sure, have at it. The _gendarmes_ won't come for you.

Sniffing disgutedly and saying 'It's just not _done_, you stupid newb.' is SO damn ARPy, it was almost like a comedy skit. I'd forgotten how lame this Tour board can be. Thank god some good citizens stepped forward.

Ed OUT till next year --



terry b said:


> Okay, so let me get this straight. Someone who is clearly new to the minutiae of the Tour can expect to be body-slammed for asking a pretty simple question? They're not allowed to ask for help on a cycling forum stacked with tons of experts because they have not proven themselve by watching lots of television and reading magazines? And they should go on ignorant instead of asking for help.
> 
> And asking a question is indicative of "not wanting to do the hard work"?
> 
> Makes perfect sense to me now.


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## qatarbhoy (Aug 17, 2009)

The champagne-sipping is lame. I feel sorry for the commentators who have to grind out several hours on that nonsense when there's only about five minutes worth watching.


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## serpico7 (Jul 11, 2006)

OES said:


> And the answer is: Sure, if Andy had wanted to essay the attempt, he was within his rights to do so. The obstacles would be formidable, but sure, have at it. The _gendarmes_ won't come for you.
> 
> Sniffing disgutedly and saying 'It's just not _done_, you stupid newb.' is SO damn ARPy, it was almost like a comedy skit.


Nice job hacking away at that strawman. I never suggested that it was against the rules or that it's not done out of some sense of sportsmanship, and don't recall anyone else suggesting that either.


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## terry b (Jan 29, 2004)

OES said:


> Why do you hate people who know everythng already, and look down their noses at those who don't?


Ah Ed, I don't hate them, I feel sorry for them and questioning their behavior is my subtle way of trying to get them see the light. You see, one of the beautiful things about knowing everything is being able to teach and help others. But sadly when you have an underdeveloped sense of self worth, it's more rewarding (I imagine) to make yourself feel better by insulting instead of educating. 

More bang for the buck in body slams.


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## rydbyk (Feb 17, 2010)

serpico7 said:


> Now I understand why Versus insists on Phil and Paul keeping the commentary so rudimentary.
> 
> OP, have you actually watched any stages? If you had, you would already know the answers to most of these questions.


No...not really dude. Kinda rude eh? These are very common sources of confusion and most of the above questions are legitimate questions imo and would not be answered had the OP "watched some previous stages".

Try to help not crush...

Many others have answered appropriately..

Folks who have a ton of experience in something, whether it be surfing or cycling typically don't have your attitude.

Makes me wonder about your noobness a bit actually. What...been riding roadbikes for 3 years now??


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## OES (Jan 23, 2002)

rydbyk said:


> No...not really dude. Kinda rude eh? These are very common sources of confusion and most of the above questions are legitimate questions imo and would not be answered had the OP "watched some previous stages".
> 
> Try to help not crush...
> 
> ...


Nah, it was five years ago when he came in here asking REAL dumbass newb questions about OP/Ultegra wheelsets. LOLOL! 'How many spokes should I have?' Comical, considering.

http://forums.roadbikereview.com/showthread.php?t=66139


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## spade2you (May 12, 2009)

pretender said:


> More like, sports fans on message boards are d!cks, full stop. Whether it's F1, bowling, NASCAR, curling, or tennis.


Curlers never wave back.


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## Cinelli 82220 (Dec 2, 2010)

Lotsa hot chicks in curling! And they don't grunt like the tennis players.


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## pretender (Sep 18, 2007)

OES said:


> Nah, it was five years ago when he came in here asking REAL dumbass newb questions about OP/Ultegra wheelsets. LOLOL! 'How many spokes should I have?' Comical, considering.
> 
> http://forums.roadbikereview.com/showthread.php?t=66139


He really bothers you.


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## jlgoodin78 (Dec 13, 2007)

*The Answers Ye Seek*



lawrence said:


> I confused about how the winner is determined for the TdF.
> 
> They announced today that Cadel Evans is going to win the TdF tomorrow.
> 
> ...


You got enough jackass answers from those who are holier than thou. I'll have the decency to apologize for that, because those who should won't. One of us will try to be polite.

But now on to help answer your questions.

1) Yes, if Cadel somehow became hurt or injured and couldn't participate in the last stage he'd be out of it. Given that it's something these guys work their lifetime for and the enormous struggle it is to get there, there's virtually no chance of that happening aside from a freakish accident.

2) Typically the leader is surrounded by their teams during the whole of the final stage. The last stage is very celebratory for the leader's team, drinking champagne, receiving congratulations from other riders, posing for the camera, and general joking around and good times. The team tends to stay together for this. There's little true protection needed, because this last stage only really has the interests of the sprinters for a stage win. The whole peloton tends to finish together with only the sprinters teams challenging for the actual stage win. Therefore the only real battle tends to be for the green jersey. That's why you're hearing about Cavendish and Rojas really looking at the importance of this one.

3) Technically, yes, Andy could make a push for this one, but practically speaking it's an impossibility. The stage is short, it's flat, and the sprinters really want to shine at it. It would virtually impossible for Andy to get into a break and make up 1'40" necessary to win the Tour. Just as you saw during the other flat stages, the sprinter's teams might let a breakaway get away for a little while, keeping it on a short enough leash to reel it in right at the end and then taking them over for the stage win. There are enough sprinter's teams to make it a near impossibility not to mention the fact that it would really go against the unspoken ethics/rules of the Tour.

4) This would be virtually impossible. See #3.

5) Nope. He'll finish in the pack, getting the same time as everyone else, but won't cross the line as the stage winner. The stage will finish with super fast speeds at the end since the sprinter's teams want the stage win.

That's it. Hope that helps! Welcome to the cycling-fan community. I promise, we're not all prudish snobs.


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## Francis Cebedo (Aug 1, 2001)

jlgoodin78 said:


> You got enough jackass answers from those who are holier than thou. ...


Perfectly said. 

Use the negative/positive rep button (thumbs up) or report infraction button (by the poster's name) when someone is being a jackass.

fc


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## JCavilia (Sep 12, 2005)

qatarbhoy said:


> The champagne-sipping is lame. I feel sorry for the commentators who have to grind out several hours on that nonsense when there's only about five minutes worth watching.


Where do you get "several hours" of champagne-sipping? The final stage was less than 60 miles long, and took less than 2 1/2 hours. The chanpagne sipping was done in the first half hour. Almost 50 miles of the race was on the finshing Champs circuits, and was at a furious pace (laps at 31 mph), with a serious breakway threatening to stay away and only being caught in the last half lap. The speed at the head of the pack, before Cav's final kick, was nearly 45 mph.

I thought it was kind of fun to watch. And I haven't yet tired of aerial views of Paris.


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## MattSoutherden (Jun 24, 2009)

Do Trek make good bikes any more? I notice the winner didn't ride one this year, but that chap in second did.

:skep:


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## rydbyk (Feb 17, 2010)

MattSoutherden said:


> Do Trek make good bikes any more? I notice the winner didn't ride one this year, but that chap in second did.
> 
> :skep:


No they do not make good bikes any more. They sold their engineering dept to BMC. Cleary that is the reason Cadel won...nothing to do with talent or drive..

I just read an article about how more Treks are essploding now more than evarrrr...


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## El Literato Loco (Apr 14, 2010)

OES said:


> Nah, it was five years ago when he came in here asking REAL dumbass newb questions about OP/Ultegra wheelsets. LOLOL! 'How many spokes should I have?' Comical, considering.
> 
> http://forums.roadbikereview.com/showthread.php?t=66139


That was singularly awesome and epically adroit.

Well played, sir. Well played.


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