# Very big shakeups in the Pro ranks - nat squads?



## philippec (Jun 16, 2002)

Word on the street here in Europe is that there are some very big shakeups that are going to hit the pro ranks in the next few weeks. 

Many of your (and my) favourite riders may not be around next spring.

If what I hear comes to pass, I'm wondering if we won't see some fundamental restructuring of the pro ranks. There is already some talk of a return to national teams for some of the GTs.

If it does come to national squads, what would that mean for the Italians French and Spanish? Will they get two squads? Will they have regional squads (like in the past?). How about NZ? Do they get glommed together with Australia?


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## philippec (Jun 16, 2002)

Yes, and that confirms what I have heard from my friends at the FFC. But let's keep this discussion focused on the repercusions for the pro peleton next year. People will be able to talk about the details over in the doping forum. 

I'm wondering how exactly things might play out on the ground if we see a return to national squads? We've had national squads for some GTs in the past and we have them for the Worlds and for the Olympics but if we see a return to that format, how will the sponsors get their return on their investment?? And what does it mean for countries with large ranks of Pro cyclists? Do we see a return to national <i>and</i> regional teams?


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## RSPDiver (Jun 3, 2006)

philippec said:


> I'm wondering how exactly things might play out on the ground if we see a return to national squads? We've had national squads for some GTs in the past and we have them for the Worlds and for the Olympics but if we see a return to that format, how will the sponsors get their return on their investment?? And what does it mean for countries with large ranks of Pro cyclists? Do we see a return to national <i>and</i> regional teams?


I'm curious how this will affect rider salaries in the long run, too, since sponsor dollars may dwindle a bit. It's not like other pro sports where thousands of people pay enormous amounts of money to get into a stadium to watch their team(s) play, so the money has to come from somewhere. Maybe the riders will begin to ***** themselves out (even more) for personal sponsorships and endorsements.

Hopefully, if they do go to more national and regional teams, the progression from hungry low-level pro to top tier pro will be improved with a spreading of the pool of riders. Might be great for the real estate market of a few place, as all the tallented riders move to prime training areas around the globe.


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## mohair_chair (Oct 3, 2002)

I don't get the appeal of national squads for a GT. For the world championships or Olympics, it's kinda cool, but those are one day races. A three-week race? How exciting can the Giro be, for instance, if all the Italians are on the same team? The whole character of the race will change, and not for the better. I know they used to do it this way, at least in the TDF, but I'm in favor of the best riders going head to head, instead of manufacturing some rivalries between nations.


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## MarkS (Feb 3, 2004)

philippec said:


> I'm wondering how exactly things might play out on the ground if we see a return to national squads? We've had national squads for some GTs in the past and we have them for the Worlds and for the Olympics but if we see a return to that format, how will the sponsors get their return on their investment?? And what does it mean for countries with large ranks of Pro cyclists? Do we see a return to national <i>and</i> regional teams?


I can see at least two ways in which sponsors could get visibility in world of national squads: (1) the national squads could be sponsored -- e.g., Team Great Britain powered by Marmite; or (2) the national jerseys could be configured similar to the leaders' jerseys in races such as the Tour de France where the rider's team sponsor's logo has a place on the jersey -- e.g., each member of the Italian team would wear an a azzurra jersey with an open block on the front for each individual team member's sponsoring team.

Insofar as regional teams versus national teams is concerned, how much would politics play into the decision as opposed to the potential number of decent cyclists? For example, would Scotland demand a team separate from the United Kingdom even though the UK has less than a handful of cyclists who compete in the grand tours? Or, would cycling rich countries, such as Spain, resist regional teams because of a national desire not to encourage regional separatist movements, such as those in Catalonia or the Basque country?


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## philippec (Jun 16, 2002)

MarkS said:


> Team Great Britain powered by Marmite;


a truly repugnant visual .... thanks Mark.



MarkS said:


> Or, would cycling rich countries, such as Spain, resist regional teams because of a national desire not to encourage regional separatist movements, such as those in Catalonia or the Basque country?


Back when the GT's were run with national squads, there were regional squads as well (e.g. France-Ouest, Provence, etc) So perhaps that will come back if they do switch to non-trade teams. Countries with few riders were put on composite teams. I could see a Oceania (Australi-NZ) team being composed that way. The real question is will Colorado get its own team or will it be broadened to the 4-Corners area?


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## MarkS (Feb 3, 2004)

philippec said:


> a truly repugnant visual .... thanks Mark.


A man who eats fish heads for breakfast and serves donkey meat sausage to his riding companions has no standing to complain.


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## thebadger (Jul 27, 2002)

If national/regional teams are used would they be based upon 

...place of birth? Would Rasmussen be on the Danish or Italian team? 

...place of residence? Would a Breton living in the Alps be on a Haute-Savoie team?

...citizenship? Would Andrei Tchmil have been on a Belgian team or his native Russia?


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## jhamlin38 (Oct 29, 2005)

Andrei Tchmil. Now there's a blast from the past. Russian I'd guess


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## Creakyknees (Sep 21, 2003)

Hold on Philippe, you can't just drop a teaser like that. Details?

Is Puerto finally going to drop? Or is it the re-tests from the Tour?


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## JChasse (Sep 16, 2005)

Creakyknees said:


> Hold on Philippe, you can't just drop a teaser like that. Details?
> 
> Is Puerto finally going to drop? Or is it the re-tests from the Tour?


exactly...more info is required to achieve appropriate level of astonishment.


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## dave2pvd (Oct 15, 2007)

There was more info.

This thread has been somewhat 'edited'.


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## MarkS (Feb 3, 2004)

dave2pvd said:


> There was more info.
> 
> This thread has been somewhat 'edited'.


So, I am not losing my mind. I thought that I had posted something here and read some other stuff, but I did not see it when I came back to the thread. I am in the middle of doing real work and I thought that maybe I just had imagined that I had posted something, but had not.


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## bigpinkt (Jul 20, 2006)

Team Germany

Presented by Bratwurst, Beer, and Pretzels.


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## MarkS (Feb 3, 2004)

bigpinkt said:


> Team Germany
> 
> Presented by Bratwurst, Beer, and Pretzels.


Ausgezeichnet! I'm just about to walk out of my office to get lunch. It is a good thing that there is no German restaurant nearby, or I would be tempted to order exactly what is in the picutures that you have posted.:thumbsup:


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## Cruzer2424 (Feb 8, 2005)

What are you talking about??


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## MarkS (Feb 3, 2004)

Cruzer2424 said:


> Whoa. I think this is one of the threads that makes the "Doping Forum" and the "Pro Cycling" forum separation ridiculous (this "shakeup" is due to some doping things... right?)... I think generally it is a good idea, but since I have NO CLUE what this thread is about (and i'm clearly not the only one)... can someone please fill us in?


Afraid to go to the Doping Forum? If you dare go there, here is a link. http://forums.roadbikereview.com/showthread.php?t=146858


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## Cruzer2424 (Feb 8, 2005)

Wait. What the crap is going on? Edited?


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## Dwayne Barry (Feb 16, 2003)

mohair_chair said:


> I don't get the appeal of national squads for a GT.


Me either.


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## Cruzer2424 (Feb 8, 2005)

MarkS said:


> Afraid to go to the Doping Forum? If you dare go there, here is a link. http://forums.roadbikereview.com/showthread.php?t=146858



Oh. Thanks.


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## Henry Porter (Jul 25, 2006)

14 or 15 riders have been caught from the TdF. Check out the doping forum so this makes sense.


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## Susan Walker (Mar 21, 2008)

thebadger said:


> Would Andrei Tchmil have been on a Belgian team or his native Russia?


Or Ukraine? Moldova?


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## bigpinkt (Jul 20, 2006)

Henry Porter said:


> 14 or 15 riders have been caught from the TdF. Check out the doping forum so this makes sense.


No

5 have been caught (allegedly), 14 or 15 have been retested with the new CERA blood test.


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## bigpinkt (Jul 20, 2006)

MarkS said:


> Ausgezeichnet! I'm just about to walk out of my office to get lunch. It is a good thing that there is no German restaurant nearby, or I would be tempted to order exactly what is in the picutures that you have posted.:thumbsup:


I just got back from Munich (Oktoberfest) My pork and beer limit have been reached for the month......but maybe not


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## greasybits (Aug 9, 2007)

Actually it's going to be team GB sponsored by Sky (broadcaster). The aim is a tour win within 5 years I am sure I read...
After the success of the GB track programme there seems to be a lot of sponsors willing to get involved with a national road team.
GB will be lucky to find enough quality riders to field a decent squad, let alone a separate Scottish or Welsh team!


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## Henry Porter (Jul 25, 2006)

bigpinkt said:


> No
> 
> 5 have been caught (allegedly), 14 or 15 have been retested with the new CERA blood test.



Oops, that was what I meant. Running on 2 hours of sleep. Thanks for catching that.


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## dagger (Jul 22, 2004)

wrong forum


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## Coolhand (Jul 28, 2002)

MarkS said:


> Afraid to go to the Doping Forum? If you dare go there, here is a link. http://forums.roadbikereview.com/showthread.php?t=146858


Moved the whole thing for you. Wildly speculate away. . .


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## uzziefly (Jul 15, 2006)

I think it'd be kinda a step-down if they move towards national teams again.

Unless, they do it on a rotating basis (Giro one year, then TdF next then Vuelta) maybe. That might be less of a horrible thing.

But even so, what about the many riders from each country? Spain surely has more than 9 riders and who'd lead? What would happen to Sastre, Valverde and Rodriguez? All would be supporting Contador.

Spain would surely win now won't they as we have discussed previously (some thread in this forum too) because of 3 words: Alberto Contador Velasco.

And Fabian Cancellara would do what?


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## uzziefly (Jul 15, 2006)

MarkS said:


> So, I am not losing my mind. I thought that I had posted something here and read some other stuff, but I did not see it when I came back to the thread. I am in the middle of doing real work and I thought that maybe I just had imagined that I had posted something, but had not.


No, you are.


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## uzziefly (Jul 15, 2006)

uzziefly said:


> No, you are.


Omg wtf??

Just as I replied to you Mark, I saw the post appear in the doping forum instead!


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## JSR (Feb 27, 2006)

bigpinkt said:


> I just got back from Munich (Oktoberfest) My pork and beer limit have been reached for the month......but maybe not


LOL. I was in Bavaria a few weeks ago, too. The slabs of pork were awesome!


JSR


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## MarkS (Feb 3, 2004)

bigpinkt said:


> I just got back from Munich (Oktoberfest) My pork and beer limit have been reached for the month......but maybe not


I haven't had too much beer lately, but about a week ago I made a pork roast and sauerkraut. Given that my Germanic heritage is stronger than Mrs. S's, I have been eating the leftovers. Maybe I need some wurst to go with the rest of the leftover sauerkraut. :thumbsup:


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## dagger (Jul 22, 2004)

Nationalizing Cycling is not the answer for better cycling. Just look at the Olympics and Worlds. Just not exciting with 2 teams competing.


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## bigpinkt (Jul 20, 2006)

JSR said:


> LOL. I was in Bavaria a few weeks ago, too. The slabs of pork were awesome!
> 
> 
> JSR


Look for a Oktoberfest post soon, it will be filled with lots of Pork, Beer, and a Mark S look alike


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## iliveonnitro (Feb 19, 2006)

To give an idea of what philippec is saying, these are this list of teams and who could be on the list of dopers caught with the retesting:

AG2R: Valjavec and another rider from the Tour Selection (Efimkin, Dessel, Arrieta, Dupont, Elmiger, Gadret, Goubert, Riblon).

Saunier Duval: Ricco, Piepoli, Cobo.

Team Columbia: two riders from the Tour Selection (Kirchen, Hincapie, Burghardt, Cavendish, Ciolek, Eisel, Hansen, Lövkvist, Siutsou).

CSC: five cyclists in the Tour Selection (Cancellara, Frank Schleck, O'Grady, Voigt, Gustov, Sastre, Arves, Andy Schleck, Sörensen).

Gerolsteiner: two riders from the Tour Selection (Schumacher, Kohl, Förster, Fothen, Häussler, Krauss, Lang, Scholz, Wegmann).


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## Sherpa23 (Nov 5, 2001)

iliveonnitro said:


> To give an idea of what philippec is saying, these are this list of teams and who could be on the list of dopers caught with the retesting:
> 
> AG2R: Valjavec and another rider from the Tour Selection (Efimkin, Dessel, Arrieta, Dupont, Elmiger, Gadret, Goubert, Riblon).
> 
> ...


You just copy-and-pasted that from the articles that others posted. That's full retard.


BigPinkt - clear your pm box.


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## bigpinkt (Jul 20, 2006)

Sherpa23 said:


> You just copy-and-pasted that from the articles that others posted. That's full retard.
> 
> 
> BigPinkt - clear your pm box.


Cleaned it. should work now


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## jhamlin38 (Oct 29, 2005)

So this begs the question: what happens to the tour, and pro cycling IF the third consecutive tour is hit b/c the yellow jersey wearer in paris goes down. Will the tour even exist anymore? How will it impact LA's ability to get addt'l sponsors for Astana, assuming that's what he was trying to do, in addition to bringing awareness to livestrong and riding for free. 
I hope it's NOT puerto OR anyone with half of a recognizeable name and it just fades quickly.


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## iliveonnitro (Feb 19, 2006)

Sherpa23 said:


> You just copy-and-pasted that from the articles that others posted. That's full retard.


lol @ your response. Sorry for not reading both threads


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## Sherpa23 (Nov 5, 2001)

iliveonnitro said:


> lol @ your response. Sorry for not reading both threads


Tropic Thunder reference. Not sure if you got it.


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