# Campy 8 speed cassette hub question



## Camilo (Jun 23, 2007)

This is probably a elementary question, but from reading online, etc. I'm not sure if I understand.

Would I be able to fit a new Campy-compatible 8 speed cassette onto a Campy 9-10 speed hubs? In other words, are the splines compatible and the only issue would be a spacer? I've read that they're not, but then saw something today (can't remember where) that showed some photos of an 8 speed cog fitting the splines of a 9/10 speed hub.

Similar question: If not, can a current Campy 9/10/11 hub be easily converted to an 8 speed hub?

I think I know the answers (no and no) but just want to make sure.

Thanks.


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## bikerjulio (Jan 19, 2010)

It works one way but not the other in theory anyway. You could fit a modern cassette onto an exa-drive freehub, and an old exa-drive sprocket will go onto a modern hub, but the engagement depth is so shallow that the freehub would be damaged. This may help. It's the depth, not the spacing that is the issue.

The Exa-drive freehub is steel and the later Ultra-drive is typically alloy.

Cassettes and Cogs - Branford Bike - Seattle/Bellevue - Campagnolo Pro Shop

To answer your 2nd question, with the correct spacers a modern freehub can be 8-speed:

"May be retrograded for use with 8 speed drivetrains by employing a Campagnolo 9 speed loose cog cassette, dropping a cog and adding Wheels Mfg Shift-8 spacers."

If you are asking if the freehubs are switchable, the answer is a definite no.


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## GKSki (Nov 12, 2014)

I agree. Use the Campagnolo Veloce 9sp loose cogs with the Wheels mfg spacer kit and drop the large cog. Works great.


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## Camilo (Jun 23, 2007)

Thanks for the advice and pointers. At least I know what my options are.


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## Camilo (Jun 23, 2007)

Now a question about 8 speed hub lock ring! Unfortunately, more vintage Campy confusion and any clarification or advice you can give would be *much appreciated*. 

I'm looking at 8 speed rear hubs. I now understand the difference between the original ones and those with the Exadrive splines - but that is usually (always) hard to differentiate with online photos. Since I'm going to buy a new cassette, I didn't think that made a difference because new, Exadrive cassettes fit on either 8 speed hub.

I've seen some that come with an 11t lockring, stating that the hub will accept both the original 8 speed cassettes and the newer, current Exadrive 8 speed cassettes, but only 7 (not 8) sprockets from either, unless the included 11t lock ring is used for the 8th. In other words, if I want to have 8 sprockets, I need to replace whatever small sprocket comes with the cassette and replace it with the included 11t lockring.

I'm _assuming_ that such a description implies an original non-Exadrive hub. So the original hubs all have this limitation and the Exadrive hubs can accept all 8 sprockets while using the regular lock ring?

This wouldn't be a problem if I could find an 11-28 cassette. But it seems that the new Campy-compatible 8 speed cassettes I'm looking at with the 28t I need seem to come with a 13t small cog (I'll keep looking!) - if I have to replace that with an 11 to make the cassette fit, I'd have a huge jump from 11t to 14t that just seems impractical.

What's the deal? How can I clearly distinguish between an 8 speed hub that will accept a full 8 speed cassette vs. the kind described above. From the photos, I can't see any clear difference in splines unless the photographer is explicitly pointing that out. All look similar if not identical to the early-mid 90s 8 speed hub bodies I see on Velobase:

VeloBase.com - Component: Campagnolo Record 8sp Rear Hub










Thanks again in advance.


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## bikerjulio (Jan 19, 2010)

I'm a little confused. 

There is only one exa-drive freehub and it's 8-speed. Look at the Branford link again. It has one narrower spline.

I don't understand what you mean by "new" Exa-drive. The current cogs are "Ultradrive"

As today, Campy had one lockring for an 11T sprocket and another for 12-13T. The difference is that the thread diameter is 1 mm less. The current lockrings are sometimes referred to as "oversize" to differentiate from the 8-spd variety. The earlier ones that you need have a thread diameter of 25 mm, while lockrings since 1997 have had a diameter of 26 mm.

My quick look at the market indicates that 26T was Campy's largest in 8-spd. I see Miche do a compatible 28T so you'd have to do some kind of mixed cassette to achieve 11-28. Don't know if acceptable gaps are possible.


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## Camilo (Jun 23, 2007)

Thanks for the reply. 

I guess maybe I wasn't clear because I didn't intend to say there was an "old" and "new" Exadrive hub. I meant to say that I know there are two different 8 speed campy hubs: the original, non-Exadrive 8 speed hub (actually 7/8) and the later Exadrive 8 speed hub. And that any new 8 speed Campy-compatible cassettes (Campy, Miche, etc.) are all Exadrive, and therefore have splines that are compatible with the original non-Exadrive 8 speed hubs.

I get your point about cobbling together 12-28 7 cog cassette from Veloce cassettes and using the 11t lockring for the 8th cog, and that's what I might end up doing. My preference will be to find an 8 speed ExaDrive hub that can take a full 13-28 or 12-28 ready-to-go cassette. Not having an 11 or 12 is not that big of a deal for me as I have a decent turnover and/or generally coast at that speed anyway.

As for the Branford site, it does distinguish between the splines of the "original" 8 speed hub - which is actually 7/8 speed and the ExaDrive. And it does say it is 5mm shorter than the later Exadrive 8 speed hub, but I didn't get the implication of that because it further says that "Current Campagnolo 8 speed cassettes fit both bodies fine." It doesn't say in order to put an 8 speed cassette on there that you have to drop a cog and replace it with the 11t lockring cog. Which is why I didn't understand that from reading that site. 

Now I do understand the implications of "5mm shorter", combined with the Ebay listings that state that the 11t lockring is needed to get 8 cogs on there.

Learning experience! Thanks again.


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## bikerjulio (Jan 19, 2010)

Camilo said:


> Thanks for the reply.
> 
> As for the Branford site, it does distinguish between the splines of the "original" 8 speed hub - which is actually 7/8 speed and the ExaDrive. And it does say it is 5mm shorter than the later Exadrive 8 speed hub, but I didn't get the implication of that because it further says that "Current Campagnolo 8 speed cassettes fit both bodies fine." It doesn't say in order to put an 8 speed cassette on there that you have to drop a cog and replace it with the 11t lockring cog. Which is why I didn't understand that from reading that site.
> 
> ...


Looking at eBay I'm seeing what you are talking about. It seems that for a brief period Campy produced a convertible 7-8 speed freehub. It was shorter than the later 8-spd only version and used a threaded last cog as the lockring if you wanted to use it as 8-speed. There were 12T lockrings as well, it doesn't have to be 11. The sellers are being a little misleading in their descriptions as well in describing the hub as "8-speed" when it's really a convertible 7 speed. In any case I'd avoid this like the plague.

Campy catalogs between 1985 and 1991 are not online, which is when the change from 7 to 8 speed was happening. Normally a 7-speed hub would be 126 mm, and it looks like Campy offered what is effectively a conversion kit with a 130 mm spindle and the 8th cog in the form of a lockring. By 1991 the hubs look the same to me, but Xenon and Athena were 7-speed on 130 mm spindles and Chorus and Record were 8 speed. 



> Original 7 and 8 speed Campagnolo freehub.
> Note the 8 equal width splines (valleys) and raised ridges. Designed for original Campagnolo cassette cogs that depended upon a series of letters stamped on each cog for proper orientation. 7 speed bodies were 5mm shorter than 8 speed bodies. Current Campagnolo 8 speed cassettes fit both bodies fine. *Drop a cog from the current Campagnolo 8 speed cassette to use with 7 speed drivetrains*.


What Branford mean is that 7 of the 8 cogs from an 8-spd cassette will fit on the 7-spd freehub when in 7-speed mode. The smallest sprocket needs to be specific for that position, as today, and the lockring needs to be the correct one for the last sprocket.

They fail to talk about the conversion to 8-speed for this freehub which has helped your confusion.

Did you buy the hub pictured? I guess not but it's a little confusing. Just buy a later, 8-speed only hub and you'll be fine. I see quite a few possibilities listed. As long as the bearings are good, the bodies can always be polished. A benefit of the old Campy parts is that they were not anodized, so are polishable.

I researched this again and the first mention of Exa-drive is in the 1994 Catalog.


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## GKSki (Nov 12, 2014)

Guess I got lost along the way. That OP was trying to run original Exadrive 8sp cassette on an 8sp freehub, or use a 9sp hub with a 9sp loose cog cassette spaced for 8sp? If the latter, Miche would be another alternative.


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## bikerjulio (Jan 19, 2010)

one problem is that op wants a cassette that campy never made. started as 11-28, now at 12-28.

i also don't see the wheels conversion spacers on their site. so that option may be out.

staying with an 8-spd hub, there are nos 12-26 campy on ebay, and op would have to find a campy compatible 28t cog to swap in.

a few years ago there was plenty of 8-spd parts around. not so much now.

right now on the 'bay i'd go for the nos 12-26 and there's a used hybrid 12-28 cheap that will provide a 28T and a lockring plus spares.


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## bikerjulio (Jan 19, 2010)

The op's other question was "how do I differentiate hubs?" when the 7 and 8 speed look almost identical, and we have sellers who are not 100% truthful.

Athena 7 speed










Athena 8-speed










The freehub is visibly shorter on the 7-speed, but other than that it's hard to tell. Easiest thing is to confirm with seller that a normal 8-speed cassette fits.


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## Camilo (Jun 23, 2007)

Thanks to all of you for (1) understanding my original question! (I know it was a little confusing) and (2) giving me the great advice. In the mean time I had pretty much figured it out, but was not comfortable with my understanding until I read all these replies.

But like someone said above, the 7/8 and 8 speed hubs are different lengths which is probably obvious in person, but for me, in Ebay photos is impossible to tell. 

Like advised above, if there was any doubt, even after messaging with the seller (some of whom are surprisingly ignorant!), I just didn't consider the uncertain ones. I ended up buying a pair of hubs from a guy who definitely seemed to know what he was talking about.

As far as the cassette size goes: Miche makes a 13-28 cassette, which is OK, but I did want a 12t since I'm using a 50t big ring. I found an online source with good reviews that sells Miche Cassettes very cheaply for around $21 USD. If I could find them, a 12t sprocket would cost about $10 to add, and I think I'd need a new lockring since it appears the 12t smallest takes a different lockring than the 13t smallest. So probably $20 in extra parts if I could find them. Plus, I believe I'd need a new 13t as I _think_ the 13t second sprocket is different than the 13t first. (not sure but as you'll see, it didn't matter).

Turns out I could buy a 13-28 and a 12-21 (or 23) for about $21 each with no additional shipping cost for the second one. I am planning to use the 12 and 13 sprockets and lockring from the 12-21 to eliminate any incompatibility between the locrking, 12t first and 13t second (it will be interesting to me to see if there is any difference between the 13t 1st and 2nd). Then the 15 through 28 from the other. I'll have a 12-13-15-17-19-21-24-28 cassette which is pretty much what any 12-28 cassette would be. Plus all the sprockets should be synchronized properly, if that's even a factor. So for the $21 cost of the second cassette I got the 12t I wanted plus the lockring I think I need, plus a bunch of extra sprockets, some of which are in the range I seem to wear out.

We'll see if this works. Campy stuff is an adventure.

When I get the hubs in hand, I plan to post pictures and see if you all can help date them. I'm pretty sure they're "early through mid/late 90s", 8 speed Exadrive. That's is the era I'm aiming for. I'm slowly finding parts for my Sannino frame/fork as it would have been bought as a frame in the early-mid 90s and outfitted with stuff of that era. But I don't know if the hubs I bought are Record or Chorus. I believe Chorus from the skewers (evidently the only external way they can be distinguished according to Velobase), but I don't know if the skewers are original. Have you seen what Record skewers of that era are going for?!

THANKS AGAIN, THIS HAS BEEN A FUN LEARNING EXPERIENCE!


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