# Torque?? installing new Keo Classic pedals



## Red Dog (Dec 3, 2008)

Getting ready to install my new Look Keo Classic pedals,....install instructions say they recommend tightening torque of 40 Nm.(which I believe converts to 29.50 lbs/ft).

I'm not Mr. Mechanic and do not own a torque wrench, so my question is related to how critical is it to use a torque wrench on it? Is it possible to hand tighten it by feel,...or will that just bring problems later?

The instructions also recommend 5.5-6 Nm torque on the cleat screws,..again.....not being well experienced in the torque area, just how critical is it to use a torque wrench? If I had not read about the torque, I would have just applied a little lock-tite on the threads and hand tightened them.....but I want to do all this 'right'.


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## danl1 (Jul 23, 2005)

Absolutely possible to do by feel, and is how the vast majority of both are installed. 

The question is how do you trust your feel, and how well is it calibrated? Unfortunately, there's no good way to say 'kinda tight' and have it get anywhere near the same result between people.

I have several torque wrenches that I rarely use, unless it's a critical component. I do occasionally beam-torque a fastener I've already guessed at by hand, just to see how well I'm guessing. sometimes good, sometimes not so good - but I've yet to strip a thread, pop a head, or have something jiggle loose - at least on bike gear.

Edit: I did strip an spd nut plate once. Cracked it, actually, and far below the torque I had put on the other three screws. I believe I received a bad plate, but I'll let you count that either way you wish.


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## Red Dog (Dec 3, 2008)

*...thanks....*

Danl1....Thanks for your reply. That was my 'gut check'. I'm still open to hearing other thoughts on this topic,...so pls add in here. :thumbsup:


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## JCavilia (Sep 12, 2005)

*agree with danl1*

These aren't very critical applications. Pedal threads are coarse, have plenty of metal on both parts, and they tend to self-tighten in use, so somewhere between "real tight" and "real damn tight" is about right, and plenty of grease. If it loosens on the ride, stop and tighten immediately. Cleat screws are a lot smaller, of course, and it's a lot harder to generate torque with a screwdriver. I heartily endorse blue Loctite for that application. "Kinda tight" to "pretty tight" is about right.


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## Puchnuts (Oct 9, 2008)

I concur. Though I have a good torque-wrench and all, I rarely use it. I learned from the old-school where one was expected to tell how tight is right. Usually after stripping some rinky-dink alloy thread on your friend's Huffy or such. All these Nm - instructions must be written by lawyers who have never seen a wrench. And lease screwdrivers.

I've never had a bicycle fall apart on me or anyone else. But if the instructions are coupled with a boiler-plate warranty...out comes Mr. Torque-Wrench.


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## tjjm36m3 (Mar 4, 2008)

Good thing about the pedals is they will become tighter through use. There's a good reasons they made the left pedal CCW. so torqueing by feel to just about right should be fine. 

The cleat screws you have to be more careful if they are made of aluminum. I had a couple strip on the tiny hex and resulted in using a flat head screwdriver instead. As a general rule just be more cautious of aluminum fasteners. I have heard cases where the head of the fastener actually snapped off.


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## Red Dog (Dec 3, 2008)

*good info*

Thanks folks for your input,.....just in time to get out and try out the new pedals in sunny Central Coast California (San Luis Obispo area),....although it got a little cold the past two days.......a whopping 58 degrees.....brrrrrrr!!!


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## cdhbrad (Feb 18, 2003)

Almost impossible to get a Look pedal "too tight", the crankarm will act as a stop and they will get tighter with use.


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## android (Nov 20, 2007)

Puchnuts said:


> All these Nm - instructions must be written by lawyers who have never seen a wrench. And lease screwdrivers.


No they're actually written by engineers that design fasteners. Properly torqued bolts actually stretch and provide a preload that hold the parts together with the correct force. However, over-torquing will actually stretch and deform the bolt. 

Depending on the application, this can be more or less critical. It would be very difficult to over-torque a pedal spindle to the point of failure, but you could certainly strip the crank arm.

http://euler9.tripod.com/fasteners/preload.html

PS: not sure what "old school" you are talking about but any serious mechanical courses teach the use of torque wrenches. Especially aviation and aerospace oriented wrenching.


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## wim (Feb 28, 2005)

*6" handle Allen?*

It's not easy to tighten a bolt to 40 Nm with an 8 mm Allen key having a 6" handle, so hose down as hard as you can on that thing. 29 ft-lbs translates into a 29-pound weight hanging at the end of and perpendicular to a foot-long handle. So you'd have to apply almost 60 lbs of force to the 0.5-foot handle of your Allen key to get 29 ft-lbs.(lever/2 = force x 2). That's very tight indeed.


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## CleavesF (Dec 31, 2007)

Out of all the stupid expensive components I own, all the carbon stuff, all the ti... it's all done by feel. 

I know I've gone too far if something snaps.


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## stevesbike (Jun 3, 2002)

CleavesF said:


> Out of all the stupid expensive components I own, all the carbon stuff, all the ti... it's all done by feel.
> 
> I know I've gone too far if something snaps.


good rule, except when the snap happens at 50mph down a descent, or sprinting out of the last corner of a crit...


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## Mr. Versatile (Nov 24, 2005)

Coupla things.
1. I would never use Loctite or similar on pedals. They're damned hard to remove without it. I grease the threads on the pedals before screwing them into the crank arms. The grease fills in the tiny space between the threads, making them less likely to back out.

2. For installing and especially removing the Keo pedals, I went to an auto parts store and bought a 3/8" socket that has the correct size allen key embedded in it. I just snap it on to my 3/8" ratchet, and off (or on) she goes.


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## Eric_H (Feb 5, 2004)

*Grease threads, tighten well*

Pedal/crank interface can be source of creaking if the threads are dry and the pedals are not tight enough. I apply liberal grease and tighten with an 8" allen wrench (8 mm) to my scientific torque of "pretty darn tight".

Also, with carbon cranks it is super-important to grease the threads and torque properly. If the threads are dry and seize, it is possible to have the threaded insert in the crank come unbonded when the pedals are removed.


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