# Flat bar vs drop bar



## amazer98 (Aug 25, 2009)

Hi,

I'm posting this question on behalf of my wife-- I'd like to upgrade her bike from the entry level Specialized Sirrus she's been riding for the past 3 or 4 years. She actually likes the bike because it's the first comfortable bile she's ever ridden. 

The last road bike she had back in the 80s was a decent Trek, but she found it excruciatingly uncomfortable. She blamed the drop handlebars, but I suspect it was the bike's stretched out geometry that placed too much weight on her hands.

She loves the flat bars of the Sirrus, but my impresion is that the upright position is inefficient for pedaling and the added air resistance also slows her. Whenever she's ahead of me on a downhill, I can keep up with her or even catch up to her without pedaling, even while she's spinning her pedals.

Still, she's comfortable, which counts for a lot. We stopped by a LBS that's known for working with cyclists who are a lot more serious than we (our typical rides are 20-30 miles through hilly southern NH) to custom fit bikes, and the owner told us he was positive he could fit Karen so she'd be comfortable. He suggested that he have a custom carbon frame made by LaPierre and fit it out with 105 for around $2,200. 

That sounds like an intriguing deal--a custom carbon frame, a fast bike, and a happy wife. But what if Karen can't get comfortable with a drop bar? I should say that she'll be 65 next summer, and though she stretched every day and goes to the gym 3x/week, she's not as limber as a 30 year old. none of us geezers are, alas!

Our other option would be to seek out a lighter bike with a flat bar. The Sirrus is a $550 bike, and does feel a bit clunky. We would hate to shell out for the custom road bike and have Karen still feel uncomfortable on it, though the LBS owner said he'd guarantee the fit. I didn't press him on what that meant, but he'd probably swap out the drop bar for a flat bar if it came to that.

Anyway... I was interested in hearing your opinions. Can a drop bar be comfy for someone who has had issues with them in the past? I'm very happy with my Specilaized Roubaix, and find the drop bars preferable to flats... But I haven't had a chance to tank with cyclists who have had issues with drop bars.

Should we take a risk with the LBS that custom fits bikes (they got numerous great reviews online for their work) or play it safe and look for a higher end stock bike with flat bars?

And if we do the latter, can you suggest any bikes (Giant, Jamis, Bianchi?) with flats that we should check out? Something light and responsive?

Thanks!


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## CougarTrek (May 5, 2008)

Fit is everything, and even with my short stature (4'11") and tiny tiny hands (KIDS medium gloves) I prefer drops on my road bikes for the position flexibility.

I see absolutely zero reason she can't be comfortable on them if the bike is set up properly for her. You can get the same upright position with drops as you can with a flat bar.

Maybe don't go straight to the custom bike (though that does sound like a deal). See if you can get her an extended test ride/demo on a properly fitted drop bar road bike (I'd actually recommend Specialized again, as their size range and availability is hard to beat and you can typically find demo or rental centers with them)

Or, another option is to work further with the shop you seem to like with the LaPierre (or another custom builder). It may be possible to get a bike that is optimized for a drop bar, but which will still get her the correct positioning and a good ride with a flat bar (this will involve a bar, stem, and controls change) if she absolutely hates it.


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## blakcloud (Apr 13, 2006)

amazer98 said:


> She loves the flat bars of the Sirrus, but my impression is that the upright position is inefficient for pedaling and the added air resistance also slows her. Whenever she's ahead of me on a downhill, I can keep up with her or even catch up to her without pedaling, even while she's spinning her pedals.


I picked this paragraph because of everything you wrote, these seems the most pertinent. First of all she says "she loves flat bars". Seriously what more is there to talk about? Who is asking for dropped bars, you or her because it doesn't sound like her? Second who cares if there is more air resistance or less efficient, you are not riding the Tour de France or some time trial. Buy a nice flat bar bike that she already likes and call it a day.

I am a huge fan of flat bar bikes and I have tested a few. My recommendation is the Giant Dash, which is made specifically for women. If she doesn't need a woman's specific bike, then the Giant Rapid, 1, 2 or 3 are great choices. Kona makes the Ph.D. and there are many others.


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## amazer98 (Aug 25, 2009)

Thanks for your replies, guys. It is true that I've been encouraging Karen to upgrade her ride. She admits, tho, that she'd like to get into a less clunky, or should I say, more responsive bike.

Now, we could just upgrade to a better flat bar bike. The most expensive one Ive found is the Giant Rapid 1, which has Tiagra components. I haven't checked the bike out personally... We'd have to drive an hour to Boston to see a Giant dealer. Maybe it's a bit lighter than the Sirrus, but it's possible that it would be a minimal upgrade.

While she's happy with a flat bar, that doesn't necessarily mean that she wouldn't like or couldn't grow into a drop bar, does it? We test rode a few drop bar bikes, including a really nice Ruby Carbon, but she was so distracted getting used to the shifters that she couldn't focus on the fit. I know this sounds weird.

I understand the idea of leaving well enough alone. Still, Karen has said that despite the fact that we are not aiming to do the Tour de France, she'd like to take her biking to another level.

I guess moving into any new bike is a risk, as it takes time to settle in and fine tune the adjustments.

Does anyone know of a lightweight aluminum/carbon flatcar bike with 105 components or the new SRAM dual chainring wide-range system (can't recall what they named it at the moment)?

Btw, I couldn't find the Kona PhD on it's website... Are they still making it?

Thanks!


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## emiliobadillio (Sep 26, 2010)

My first bike was a sirrus sport. it was a very comfortable ride that made me very happy riding it on my daily commute and weekend exploring. i agree it is a bit clunky, but the trigger shifters make everything seem so simple. after 5 months, i wanted something lighter, faster, and more aero. i considered trying to add road bars, brifters, and cantilever brakes to it, but it was far from a cost effective solution to a $550 bike. this led me to purchasing a road bike (neuvation f100 sram rival) and selling the sirrus for $400. it took some time to get used to the road bars and shifting properly, but i can say from my experience it was like night and day performance difference. from climbing to accelerating to maintaining a fast pace it was an all-around upgrade. my advice: keep test-riding different bikes and don't rush to purchase. she has a bike she likes for now. ignorance is bliss. i had no clue how much i was missing.


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## Richard (Feb 17, 2006)

amazer98 said:


> We test rode a few drop bar bikes, including a really nice Ruby Carbon, but she was so distracted getting used to the shifters that she couldn't focus on the fit. I know this sounds weird.


That is exactly why I inform customers on test rides to ignore shifting and concentrate on how the bike feels, handles, reponds, etc. As I tell them, "I can make a $100 Walmart bike shift decently for the duration of a test ride."

Another thing in terms of going from a flat bar to a drop bar. The hoods should more or less equal the reach that one has on a flat bar.


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## rx-79g (Sep 14, 2010)

I'd have her try something with a very shallow and short drop bar, and consider putting cross levers on the tops. This should make her both feel more protected, with easy brake access, and the hoods and drops will all be closer to the tops and each other.

The great thing about a drop bar is that it is only an aerodynamic bar when you want it to be. The rest of the time it is a pretty much a flat bar.

Another possibility is a road bike with a mustache bar and barend shifters. An excellent compromise between flat and drop, as it adds more positions for comfort and aero, but doesn't force one to lean forward as far to shift. Not ideal, but a posibility.


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## cs1 (Sep 16, 2003)

amazer98 said:


> While she's happy with a flat bar, that doesn't necessarily mean that she wouldn't like or couldn't grow into a drop bar, does it?


From what you said it sounds like you've been married a lot longer than I have. It also sounds like you're not listening to what your wife is saying. She likes her current bike just the way it is. 

I made the mistake of trying to get my wife into a higher end Campy road bike. She doesn't want one. My wife is a runner first and cyclist last. Your wife sounds like a gym rat first. 

Respect what your wife wants and let her ride the flat bar road bike.


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## perttime (Jun 27, 2005)

By upgrading, you mean buying a new bike? Not replacing parts on the existing bike?

Whatever else you do, don't just buy a bike for her. See if she would visit a bike shop and try some bikes. Not sure if it is best she go with or without you: if you've talked about drop bars to her, your presence could be a pressure towards buying something she does not really want.

Obviously, the variety of hand positions and the possibility for a more aero position are the advantages of a drop bar. Are those things important to her?


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## blakcloud (Apr 13, 2006)

For the Kona Ph.D

Giant Rapid 0 with Shimano 105

Trek 7.9 FX carbon

Specialized Sirrus carbon

These are just a few bikes to look at.


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## amazer98 (Aug 25, 2009)

*So it's a bit of a crapshoot...*

It's probably true that I've been pushing my wife toward considering a drop bar... But I have tried to do so gently. While she is comfortable on her Sirrus, she realizes that its weight and lack of aerodynamics and pedaling efficiency is holding her back, so she would like to move into a better bike that is lighter and has better components.

I agree with those of you who pointed out the benefits of a drop bar-- I use one, and find the options of changing positions a real bonus. In fact, that's exactly why I am encouraging Karen to consider a drop bar.

The question is: can she get comfortable using a drop bar? On one of our test rides, she quickly determined that her hand was hurting from the way it rested on the hoods. Maybe that bike had her stretched a bit too much so that she carried to much weight on her hands. Clearly, she would have to get used to riding on the hoods, shifting from the hoods and applying brakes from the hoods. Could she find a bike and get fitted to it so that she was comfy with drops? I dunno.

I can't see the posts as I type this, so I forget who wrote this, but someone commented that it took them a few months to get used to drop bars. I wouldn't want Karen to go through a painful process of adjustment, so maybe the best option would be to get a lighter, better equipped bike with flat bars. Thanks for your suggestions of viable models.

Ultimately, what you all have helped confirm is that this sort of change is a bit of a crapshoot. Not everybody will embrace drop bars, and the important thing is to be comfortable on your bike.

When we move forward with this process in February or March, I will post whatever decision we made on this forum. Thanks, and I'll check any other comments that get posted here as well.


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## Dereck (Jan 31, 2005)

Hi - hope this helps. We went through a similar process some seven years back. I'd cycled pretty seriously some 30 years before, then did something stupid and quit riding altogether. Wifey and I started 'riding' - as in staggering to and from handy coffee shops maybe 9 years back, as desperation over the physical state we'd both gotten to. 

She got keen before me. One day, we were in a LBS, long story short, she got the usual sort of 'fitting' one can get if not awake and came home with a Lemond straight barred road bike. 

Rode it three times, was in utter misery. The 'fitting' - not much over a standover height check and a look at her sitting on it sideways - skipped that its typical Lemon geometry forward reach was way too long for her. The straight bars didn't come much into it, as she'd always ridden something like, but I'd tried them and realised their biggest issue is you only get one hand position that you're stuck with all the time you're on the bike.

Onward a few months and she'd found a bike shop with an adult or two on staff who could actually fit someone to a bike and understood her issues, Next thing, she's on a Gunnar Sport, full Ultegra and sized to her forward reach issues. Okay, there's a few extra spacers under the stem, but its steel steerer doesn't cause any problems with that. She's ridden that bike for seven years or thereabouts now, is comfortable on it and won't entertain buying another bike. I'm only allowed to touch it for maintenance and cleaning and the only change made to it has been a slightly lower stem height as she dropped weight.

Yes, it is a crapshoot to some extent. If I'd sat down, done more thinking than buying, I'd have gotten both of us to where we are now with good, lightweight and serviceable road bikes vice some of the stuff we went through.

Yes, Karen would be more comfortable with drop bars if the position fitted her better - that you have several hand positions is invaluable and I've never heard anyone disagree with that viewpoint. However, and don't tell her this - women often need different persuasive methods to us guys 

An idle thought is that now you can get drivetrains that could be shifted by either flat bar specific shifters or drop bar road shifters. With a little poking around, you could get her onto a better fitting road bike with the flat bars she fancies with the possibility of transitioning to drops later for the cost of new bars and shifters, on the old derailleurs etc.

Too many bike shops want you to get in, buy a complete bike from stock and get out without bothering their cheap kiddy labour. You have the benefit of time here - start doing some serious research into Karen's next bike before there's riding time to be missed. 

Finding a sympathetic bike shop is probably the first step!

Good luck, happy to answer any question you've got - been there, done something similar 

Dereck


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## amazer98 (Aug 25, 2009)

Dereck,

Your wife's experience with the Lemond sounds exactly the same as Karen's with the yellow steel Trek back in the 80's-- a bad fitting and a bike that stretched her into the Zone of Misery.

I hadn't heard of Gunnar, so I went to their website-- sounds like a high end custom steel frame builder like Independent Fabricators. I remember my steel Raleigh Super Grand Prix and how smoothly it rode, and wonder were I to buy another bike, whether I'd go back to steel. I enjoy my alu/carbon fork & seatstayed Roubaix, but it definitely vibrates more than steel!

I'm starting to thinkl that we should look for a higher-end flatbar bike for Karen. Drop bars have all the benefits you mentioned-- and I prefer them myself-- but Karen is comfortable with the flats, and the shifting and braking on her setup is familiar to her.

Somehow, the idea of going with a flatbar and then doing a somewhat complicated transition to drops, with new shifters, etc., seems an unlikely road for us.


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## Dereck (Jan 31, 2005)

Gunnar is the off-the-peg side of Waterford, the custom builder from Waterford, WI. 

Richard Schwinn - yes, that family - bought the Schwinn high end framebuilder factory in Waterford when Schwinn changed to being a name on cheap Chinese bikes. Couldn't use the family name, so adopted the town name. 

Today's trivia - Gunnar is the name of their old office security system - a chocolate Labrador dog!

Waterford are up there with the best, definitely frames to drool over, though with closer roots to rock-solid performance and understated craftsmanship over custom bling. If you've ever seen a 'Curly Hetchins' lugged steel frame, you've seen bling  

The Gunnars are plain welded OS tube frames, but high quality and they perform well. My Sport has done the lot from riding to a grocery store to a criterium - only the engine fails to perform. If I could only have one bike, I'd keep my Gunnar, and Sue loves hers dearly too. Her CF Trek 4.5 lasted about four months, she admits it was a mistake buying it and sold it.

If your Karen is happy with her straight bars and shifters, let her keep on being happy. Like other women cyclists I've known over the years, she sounds like new and exciting gear has much less effect on her than it could on you or I  

Okay, it could be fussy to swap them over, but down the road, one never knows. Before we moved to the US, or back to the US in Sue's case, she had a three speed Peugeot 'sit up and beg' she rode to the shops and complained that it was 'too complicated' - her idea of a bike involved one gear and a back pedal brake. When we started cycling and got a little keener, she beat me to a full blown STI rigged road bike.

Bikes I understand. Women are somewhat trickier. Main thing is, you're getting Karen out there riding and being happy with it.

Good luck

Dereck


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## seacoaster (May 9, 2010)

Well, you may be trying to fix something that ain’t broke. However, she might actually prefer a properly fitting drop bar bike over a flat bar bike. I have both, and I prefer the drops, especially over longer distances (but that’s just my opinion). As CougarTrek pointed out, you can get the same upright position with drop bars as you do with flat bars. Some bikes have a more relaxed (upright) geometry, and stems and bars come in different sizes. A good shop can do a lot with a stock bike (as opposed to custom).

I think that the wide-range dual chainring system you are referring to is the compact double (as opposed to a standard double). Shimano makes a compact double as well.

The snow isn’t here yet, but it will be shortly. You’ll have a few months to do some homework. Good luck, and I hope Karen is happy with whatever she decides on.


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## amazer98 (Aug 25, 2009)

I* think that the wide-range dual chainring system you are referring to is the compact double (as opposed to a standard double). Shimano makes a compact double as well.*

Seacoaster,

Actually I was referring to SRAM's new Apex system, which uses a compact dual chainring up front, along with an extra-long derailleur in back that comes with an 11-32 cassette.... so you get the full range of a triple with the simplicity of a double.

I agree with you about the benefits of drops, but am not sure that my wife would be able to get comfortable with the shifting and braking techniques. I guess we'll have to take a few more test rides.


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