# Astana '09 - it's bound to end in tears...



## gizzard (Oct 5, 2005)

The Astana set-up with Contador and Armstrong vying for the number one spot is reminiscent of the unhappy times in the mid-eighties in the La Vie Claire team with Hinault and Lemond. Armstrong is unlikely to concede anything to Contador during this year's Tour (even though he has intimated that he will). This stand-off is going to be very disruptive for the rest of the team as well - domestiques will have to choose their alliances carefully. This is a recipe for a lot of unhappiness.


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## bigmig19 (Jun 27, 2008)

Hold on, LA and Contador? Why does everyone ignore Levi or for that matter Kloden. Levi is quietly a top 3 TT guy these days (adjusted for dopers) and a "good" climber and finished seconds out of 2nd place. Im not trying to start another "give Levi his props all you haters" thread, but rather agreeing with the OP but adding the fact that this is MUCH dicier than La Vie Claire. Levi aint exactly a super domestique either and has few to no years of top GC form left. He has every right to be selfish. Ac will put it to him in the hills, but a top form Levi will beat him down in the TT, unfortunately it wont be enough to win but itwill be enough to tempt him to ride for himself.


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## OneGear (Aug 19, 2005)

this is what happens when you sign many top GCs into the same squad. I don't love Levi and I don't hate him, but that man should ride for himself. We know he won't because its not his character to fvck the team, but he could definitely do some damage.


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## Guest (Dec 5, 2008)

I think Levi should stay where he is, he has ventured off on his own before and it didn't really go that well, certainly not as well as his time with Astana.


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## Creakyknees (Sep 21, 2003)

Tears? no. Cadel Evans is not on this team.

Fisticuffs? maybe. LA will kick 'bert's skinny little ass.

Harsh words? likely. 

TdF and Giro and Vuelta victories? Bet on it.


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## mohair_chair (Oct 3, 2002)

The mid-eighties might have been unhappy times for the La Vie Claire team with Hinault and Lemond, but they sure won a lot of races. I couldn't care less about their personal issues. Just shut up and ride. And win. Winning cures a lot of ills. They can all write books about it later. Someday soon Lance will be wandering around podiums in short sleeves and a tie just like Hinault.


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## kbiker3111 (Nov 7, 2006)

kytyree said:


> I think Levi should stay where he is, he has ventured off on his own before and it didn't really go that well, certainly not as well as his time with Astana.


+1

Seems like no one remembers when he was team lead of Gerolsteiner. He did alright (Dauphine one year and Deutschland Tour the other), but not nearly as well as Contador or LA.


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## Mike T. (Feb 3, 2004)

They sure are all putting on a brave face to the media (even Kloden) with their "I'm sooo happy that xxxx is on the team; it'll be great working together. We'll get along just fine" statements but I wonder what they really think. I probably already know.


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## iliveonnitro (Feb 19, 2006)

So what they should really do is:

Armstrong wins Giro with support from Levi/Kloden/Popo/Chechu, Contador sits out.
Contador for the Tour with support from Armstrong/Kloden/Popo/Chechu, Levi sits out.
Levi for the Vuelta with support from Contador/Chechu, and Armstrong (Kloden, Popo) sits out...as this is the least important race for Astana 

Contador is plenty good enough to help Levi win the Vuelta with some other teammates.

But Levi miss the tour again? Doubtful. Contador needs someone in the mountains who is good like Levi.


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## bigmig19 (Jun 27, 2008)

Yeah if I was Levi, at his age I would seriously wonder who the eff I owed something to that I should be a good soul and just skip the Tour. He's earned his stripes period. My dream is that all three ride the TOUR,...something HAS to get heated sooner or later.


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## Aquamarinos (Mar 27, 2008)

Just curious, has there ever been so strong GT team on paper?

La Vie Claire comes to mind, but the current Astana roster looks even more impressive.


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## ProRoad (Oct 13, 2008)

Maybe we will get all three grand tours on TV this year! LOL...


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## Gnarly 928 (Nov 19, 2005)

How bout the Tour of California? That should be interesting between Levi and Armstrong. It's a race where Levi has done especially well in the past, but it will be Lance's first big race again in front of the home fans. They are both good climbers. They are both great TT guys. That final stage that just was announced..that could work in favor of a "team break" that would probably work, if Astana should manage to get those two away...Could happen on the climb up Palomar... Levi, Armstrong and Contador...all off the front? 

Can't wait to see how that race shakes out.

Don Hanson


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## sometimerider (Sep 21, 2007)

Aquamarinos said:


> Just curious, has there ever been so strong GT team on paper?
> 
> La Vie Claire comes to mind, but the current Astana roster looks even more impressive.


I agree. At least 4 guys who have podiumed in the Tour (plus at least one other guy with a GT podium (Popovych 3rd in 2003 Giro). Intimidating. (Not to say that they will all ride the Tour.)


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## jerm182 (Jul 18, 2008)

*The Twitters*

I'm getting a kick out of their twitters. Looks like they're trying to keep the rivalry light, but there's a definite sense of tension. In particular Alberto's responses to Lance's pics. But there's also the "Horner's a hick" and Levi's a wimp (climbing in the 28)...but not so much.

http://twitter.com/lancearmstrong
http://twitter.com/albertocontador

I feel like a teenage fanboy, but I can't wait till they start racing. Kind of like watching football. The games are fine, but the disfunction (can you say Cowboys?) is great.


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## zphogan (Jan 27, 2007)

Gnarly 928 said:


> How bout the Tour of California? That should be interesting between Levi and Armstrong. It's a race where Levi has done especially well in the past, but it will be Lance's first big race again in front of the home fans. They are both good climbers. They are both great TT guys. That final stage that just was announced..that could work in favor of a "team break" that would probably work, if Astana should manage to get those two away...Could happen on the climb up Palomar... Levi, Armstrong and Contador...all off the front?
> 
> Can't wait to see how that race shakes out.
> 
> Don Hanson


Contador isn't riding the TOC and Lance will likely ride for Levi as a goodwill gesture considering its in Levi's home state.


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## Aquamarinos (Mar 27, 2008)

jerm182 said:


> I'm getting a kick out of their twitters. Looks like they're trying to keep the rivalry light, but there's a definite sense of tension. In particular Alberto's responses to Lance's pics. But there's also the "Horner's a hick" and Levi's a wimp (climbing in the 28)...but not so much.
> 
> http://twitter.com/lancearmstrong
> http://twitter.com/albertocontador
> ...



ehm, that is NOT the real Alberto Contador.........
he has his own site,
http://www.albertocontador.es/home.php?idioma=en


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## cheddarlove (Oct 17, 2005)

Here's my prediction! Lance will go for the Giro win per Johan to avoid in team strife. 
He will use his Giro win to hush his fans saying I'm too tired to win the Tour, I'm going to work for Contador. 
Contador will be the main leader for the Tour and if he doesn't do well then Lance will take over. Lance will go for the Ventoux stage win regardless of who's team leader which he always regretted giving away to Pantani and also mistiming Virenques attack.
I believe Prudhomme called Lance and said; " I'm putting Ventoux in, this is your last chance! Please come back We miss you so!" :thumbsup: 
I believe Johan will try to avoid team infighting as much as possible!


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## jerm182 (Jul 18, 2008)

So, I concede that it MAY not be the real Alberto, but you seem to know for sure. How do you know? He has his own website? I have a website, AND I twitter...

...and IF it isn't him, then WHY would Lance be following the imposter?


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## Old_school_nik (May 21, 2002)

*yes, 1986 (and I think 85) la Vie Claire and Reanult Gitane*



Aquamarinos said:


> Just curious, has there ever been so strong GT team on paper?
> 
> 86 La Vie Claire was sick on in TDF and on paper: 1986 TDF 1st, 2nd, 4th, 7th and 12th and 23rd places on GC!!!! - If that hapnned today people might say they were D_ping
> 
> ...


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## Susan Walker (Mar 21, 2008)

jerm182 said:


> IF it isn't him, then WHY would Lance be following the imposter?


But he doesn't. Or: not anymore?


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## jerm182 (Jul 18, 2008)

heh - yeah - you're right - I have twitslexia - it's the other guy who's following Lance.

Bah - I don't really care. I'm getting a kick out of it either way. ...and now Johann is twittering too. I like the access they're providing. Pretty cool.


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## alexb618 (Aug 24, 2006)

its amusing that every american has astana locked in for wins in all 3 grand tours


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## Susan Walker (Mar 21, 2008)

alexb618 said:


> its amusing that every american has astana locked in for wins in all 3 grand tours


What with Ivan Basso returning in the peloton. And Valverde bound to get it right sometime!


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## F1nut (Nov 28, 2008)

Bruneel and Lance had a "meeting" with the ASO. It seems as if Kazakhstan had a say so in the invitation. 

Remember it was not long ago that riders who come back from a suspension were required to sit out for 2 years from The UCI ProTour? What happend now with that?

Giving organizers a deal they cant refuse... How can you expect anyone to play fair if they arent getting equal, "protection."?

Dont know which forum this belongs in..... Sorry if your offended.... Omit your eyes perhaps....?


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## bertoni (Jan 10, 2008)

mohair_chair said:


> The mid-eighties might have been unhappy times for the La Vie Claire team with Hinault and Lemond, but they sure won a lot of races. I couldn't care less about their personal issues. Just shut up and ride. And win. Winning cures a lot of ills. They can all write books about it later. Someday soon Lance will be wandering around podiums in short sleeves and a tie just like Hinault.


Sorry, but I can't see LA on a podium for anything other than winning the race. Thats why he is back racing again, because he doesnt know anything else. If this was all about his foundation as he insists, why wouldn't he be devoting more effort to that? I have no problem with his return to racing, I just wish he could be more honest about his motives for doing so.


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## QUiTSPiNiNArOuND (Mar 15, 2002)

Who was suspended on Astana?


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## Susan Walker (Mar 21, 2008)

QUiTSPiNiNArOuND said:


> Who was suspended on Astana?


Well, a LOT, because it is the continuation of ONCE (later Liberty Seguros) with sports director Manolo Saiz and team doctor Eufemiano Fuentes ... Suspended and/or fired while under the Astana flag, from 2006: Kessler, Vinokourov, Kashechkin, Gusev.


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## ProRoad (Oct 13, 2008)

alexb618 said:


> its amusing that every american has astana locked in for wins in all 3 grand tours


?????

I don't even know what to say to that.


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## JSR (Feb 27, 2006)

bertoni said:


> If this was all about his foundation as he insists, why wouldn't he be devoting more effort to that? I have no problem with his return to racing, I just wish he could be more honest about his motives for doing so.


All of the pics of LA on a bike so far, he's been in Livestrong kit. He will be riding in Australia, California, Italy, and who knows where else - all of which he avoided when he was puriing his single-minded approach to TdF championships. One day this week he forewent a team activity in order to participate in Livestrong board meeting, a body of which he is chairman.

I don't doubt that Lance will try to win. He is rumored to be fairly competitive.  Plus, that's what gets TV time. If his actions during the season seem inconsistent with his stated goal of visibility for Livestrong, you'll have an reasonable argument. So far, he seems to me be acting in total constistency with his stated goal.

JSR


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## QUiTSPiNiNArOuND (Mar 15, 2002)

I was referring to the current Astana team. Also, this current Astana team is under different management then the ONCE/Liberty Seguros team obviously. I am sure there has been plenty of talk about that.


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## bertoni (Jan 10, 2008)

JSR said:


> All of the pics of LA on a bike so far, he's been in Livestrong kit. He will be riding in Australia, California, Italy, and who knows where else - all of which he avoided when he was puriing his single-minded approach to TdF championships. One day this week he forewent a team activity in order to participate in Livestrong board meeting, a body of which he is chairman.
> 
> I don't doubt that Lance will try to win. He is rumored to be fairly competitive.  Plus, that's what gets TV time. If his actions during the season seem inconsistent with his stated goal of visibility for Livestrong, you'll have an reasonable argument. So far, he seems to me be acting in total constistency with his stated goal.
> 
> JSR


Wow, he attended a board meeting and a couple press conferences, (during the off season) which he used as a platform for discussing his racing agenda this season. I'm sorry, but all I can see out of this guy is his constant need to be in the spotlight.


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## F1nut (Nov 28, 2008)

I never here Lance talk about cancer in cycling circle press releases. He says he's trying to raise awareness for cancer. So what? What does that mean? I here him talk about surfing.... Golf, Scuba diving, shooting, whatever else their doing...

What does LiveStrong mean? What does that do for anyone? I dont here him talking about statistics, treatment, funding. All I here him talking about is "raising awareness." Why doesnt Lance hijkack one of his own conferences and talk about cancer.

Lemond turned one of Lance's press conferences into one of the most talked, If not _the most talked about_ anti-doping proposals.

I here LA talk about cycling. He's in cycling to be in cycling.


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## Susan Walker (Mar 21, 2008)

QUiTSPiNiNArOuND said:


> I was referring to the current Astana team.


There's no point asking about that because riders suspended for a doping offence get fired by consequence, so they're never on the current team. If you meant: who was suspended while riding for Team Astana, I already gave you the answer (of those four, Gusev was not suspended but fired after the team thought he had suspicious blood values).


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## JSR (Feb 27, 2006)

bertoni said:


> Wow, he attended a board meeting and a couple press conferences, (during the off season) which he used as a platform for discussing his racing agenda this season. I'm sorry, but all I can see out of this guy is his constant need to be in the spotlight.


I see. You say he's not doing enough for his foundation. When it is pointed out that he is in fact leading that foundation, you dismiss it.

He has also negotiated with the Giro d'Italia that they will advertise for Livestrong at their own event. It remains to be seen how many other events will be required to pony up similarly. 

He said all along that the objective was to take the Livestrong message to the world through the visibility that his racing offers. Denouncing him for not doing enough to reach his goals before the season even starts is disingenuous. 

JSR


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## bertoni (Jan 10, 2008)

JSR said:


> I see. You say he's not doing enough for his foundation. When it is pointed out that he is in fact leading that foundation, you dismiss it.
> 
> He has also negotiated with the Giro d'Italia that they will advertise for Livestrong at their own event. It remains to be seen how many other events will be required to pony up similarly.
> 
> ...


We will see about that.


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## F1nut (Nov 28, 2008)

JSR said:


> I see. You say he's not doing enough for his foundation. When it is pointed out that he is in fact leading that foundation, you dismiss it.
> 
> He has also negotiated with the Giro d'Italia that they will advertise for Livestrong at their own event. It remains to be seen how many other events will be required to pony up similarly.
> 
> ...


How many people are going to go to Livestrong right now? How many in the world even realize the source even exists? He needs to talks about it, so far all he's done is surf, play golf, ride, yaket on the computer, and inject EPO and corticoids. There are other modes he can go through... Its fine that the Giro will advertise it, hopefully on TV, at the side of the road. But... 

There are billions of people out there. Raising Awareness needs to actually be a priority right now instead of pretending its a priority and talking about cycling, and then cheating at cycling. The Giro is only 3 weeks. The tour is 3-weeks. Lance lives 365 days a year.


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## JSR (Feb 27, 2006)

F1nut said:


> I never here Lance talk about cancer in cycling circle press releases. He says he's trying to raise awareness for cancer. So what? What does that mean? I here him talk about surfing.... Golf, Scuba diving, shooting, whatever else their doing...
> 
> What does LiveStrong mean? What does that do for anyone? I dont here him talking about statistics, treatment, funding. All I here him talking about is "raising awareness." Why doesnt Lance hijkack one of his own conferences and talk about cancer.
> 
> ...


The Lance Armstrong Foundation  is principally involved in developing cancer victims' programs. They provide awareness of treatment options, a network of people who can help find treatment, education on cancer detection, etc. They are not so much involved in research as they are involved in quality of life issues for cancer sufferers.

During 2007, the most recent year for which financial information is available, the LAF made $9.5M in grants to a variety of universerty, hospital, and other institutions. 

Lance appears to take no salary from the LAF, but is known to be active in lobying activities, speaking engagements, and other efforts. 

IMHO, it perfectly reasonable to dislike Lance Armstrong. However, to suggest he is not active in LAF, or somehow is less than exemplary in his efforts in support of LAF is unreasonable. 

Many of us have given our $100 or whatever for a charity ride. Lance's foundation raised $27M dollars in 2007. Those of you who exceeded $27M of charitable works in 2007 speak up. All others STFU.

JSR


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## F1nut (Nov 28, 2008)

I think its not so much about private funding as it is Federal funding. Lance raised 27M, and thats great for a private firm.

If you look at the National Cancer INstutute, which gets in funding from US congress You see how the funding is distrubuted and total spending was around $4.83 billion in 2005. 

I dont think its about trying to raise money, but to advocate for proper funding distribution from within. Lance has the ability to do this, but he chooses to race instead.

Now, Breast and Corectal Cancer got around 800 million in 05 and 750 million in 07.

U.S. Federal Funding for HIV/AIDS is $22.8 billion. The number of people that get aids is far less than the number that receive the main types of cancer listed above. HIV_AIDS Funding

The funding was for a world-effort. However, Approximately $18.9 billion
(83%) of the FY 2007 HIV/AIDS request was for domestic
programs.

If funding ratios switched around, that would be an incredible boost.


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## varian72 (Jul 18, 2006)

Levi has a major reason for playing the role he does. PAYCHECK. Dude's probably getting paid a good deal and has way more longevity being in the position he's in than being the lead somewhere else. He's not a killer. Plain and simple. A gifted cyclist? No Doubt, but he's no different than the guy who's 2,3,4 in a major corporation and will never be CEO. Big deal. Still rich. Still leading a charmed life. Good stuff in my book.

Prediction. LA goes for Tdf and helps Kloden or Levi win the Grio. Then he'll push Contador to the brink to see if AC is really the killer he thinks he is or if he's just the most talented in a not so talented field of riders. Let's face it, there are no monsters in the tour right now like LA, GL, Hinault, Jan, or Indurain

Only guy I'd call a potential monster if he could climb is Cancellara. He showed he could do it in the Tour me thinks and the guy knows how to punch it when needed. That Milan San Remo win was priceless.

Anyway...I'm not convinced LA is going to win the Tour, but he's gonna be like Levi at the Vuelta and make it uncomfortable for AC at the very least. LA can easily get a minute or more in the TTs.


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## moonmoth (Nov 8, 2008)

varian72 said:


> No Doubt, but he's no different than the guy who's 2,3,4 in a major corporation and will never be CEO. Big deal. Still rich. Still leading a charmed life. Good stuff in my book.


Yes, this is a good way to look at it, I agree. 



varian72 said:


> Prediction. LA goes for Tdf and helps Kloden or Levi win the Grio.


I'm doubting that we will see Leipheimer in the Giro. Bruyneel usually sends the "B" team to that race, as part of his usual TdF preparation. (Last year, of course, was exception since they had no Tour invite, and Armstrong is another exception this year because of his charity exposure.) Look for Levi to do his usual California/Paris-Nice/a few races in Spain/Dauphine routine instead, to ramp up for the Tour.


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## CARBON110 (Apr 17, 2002)

whoever wins the TTs will be team leader 

if the GC is close, they can have 2 leaders

JB is a much better director and will keep the team focused

Contador is getting paid well and is young. He barely won last year over Levi

I see Lance dominating the TTs and the climbing unless something unfortunate happens in the Giro

I think Astana is a well organized team and will keep it's focus. They won't go into the TDF or any race without a program and everyone knowing their job

should be a lot of fun to watch - can't wait!


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## bertoni (Jan 10, 2008)

JSR said:


> The Lance Armstrong Foundation  is principally involved in developing cancer victims' programs. They provide awareness of treatment options, a network of people who can help find treatment, education on cancer detection, etc. They are not so much involved in research as they are involved in quality of life issues for cancer sufferers.
> 
> During 2007, the most recent year for which financial information is available, the LAF made $9.5M in grants to a variety of universerty, hospital, and other institutions.
> 
> ...


At the risk of disobeying your order to STFU, I want to clarify that it would seem very difficult to keep anything a else a priority when you are required to compete at this level in the sport of cycling. I will give Lance the benefit of the doubt that he intends to do both. But it is my opinion that something else is driving him to come back more than the desire for greater exposure for his foundation. You can continue to be dismissive of other opinions that differ from yours, but don't confuse what I said as being disingenuous.


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## uzziefly (Jul 15, 2006)

bertoni said:


> We will see about that.


It seems you only want to dismiss Armstrong's intentions and when something is pointed towards his goodwill, you 'choose' to look away.


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## ProRoad (Oct 13, 2008)

F1nut said:


> I never here Lance talk about cancer in cycling circle press releases. He says he's trying to raise awareness for cancer. So what? What does that mean? I here him talk about, surfing.... Golf, Scuba diving, shooting, whatever else their doing...
> 
> What does LiveStrong mean? What does that do for anyone? I dont here him talking about statistics, treatment, funding. All I here him talking about is "raising awareness." Why doesnt Lance hijkack one of his own conferences and talk about cancer.
> 
> ...


F1nut, I am again dumbfounded by your comments.

Lance is a cyclist and a Cancer survivor. Thank God!

Lance is always talking about raising awareness for cancer funding and survivorship.

*You* "hear" him talking bout, whatever the media feeds you. Reporters do ask questions, and the answers are often about, as you say, " surfing.... Golf, Scuba diving, shooting, whatever else their doing..."

The "Livestrong" message has always been about, cancer survivors, you know, what we all pray for if we actually have a loved one, or, our ourselves, get, cancer. Surviving....

I was at the Las Vegas press conference where my former idol, Lemond, turned the other wise positive and informative press conference into a doping accusation. It was agreed by most in attendance that Lemond looked like a fool on a mission, and it wasn't for the public good. He sounded foolish and bitter. Lemond did NOT turn the press conferences into "one of the most talked, If not _the most talked about_ anti-doping proposals", Lance did, Lance brought his own well respected expert, Dr. Catlin, and a great plan to help erase doubt and to run a clean, very visible, program for 2009. He also introduced a new development team with Taylor Phinney, that got so little time and ink due to the grandstanding of Greg LeMond.

I am sorry that so many people hate Lance for whatever reason, but am very happy that he continues to live Strong, so that long after he has finished his cycling career, people all over the world will have the courage to fight for their lives and not lay down to Cancer.

Brian


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## JSR (Feb 27, 2006)

bertoni said:


> At the risk of disobeying your order to STFU,


My apologies. Speak up. 


bertoni said:


> I want to clarify that it would seem very difficult to keep anything a else a priority when you are required to compete at this level in the sport of cycling. I will give Lance the benefit of the doubt that he intends to do both.


 Difficult, no doubt. He has managed it in the past. His former teammates have commented that after a race, while they were chilling out, he was working the phones. I couldn't keep the pace, but Lance seems to be able to. 


bertoni said:


> But it is my opinion that something else is driving him to come back more than the desire for greater exposure for his foundation. You can continue to be dismissive of other opinions that differ from yours, but don't confuse what I said as being disingenuous.


Fair enough. At this point we can agree to disagree. IMHO, nothwithstandning any ego massaging that may be going on, LA appears to be doing exactly what he said he was. His race calendar seems to be geared toward participating in as many races as possible in as wide a geography as possible. This is a significant departure from previous years, and when coupled with the Giro advertising deal, leads me to believe that he is pursuing exactly what he said was - exposure for his foundation.

As you say, we will see.

JSR


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## F1nut (Nov 28, 2008)

ProRoad said:


> that he continues to live Strong, so that long after he has finished his cycling career, people all over the world will have the courage to fight for their lives and not lay down to Cancer.
> 
> Brian


 :idea: Oh So you conviently choose to ignore my other posts. Well, I post again...  


Thats Right, Get Down With The Sickness


Continue to buy those $299.99 Nike LiveWrong tennis shoes....:thumbsup:

Its not about private funding its Federal funding. Lance raised 27M, and thats great for a private firm.

If you look at the National Cancer INstutute, which gets in funding from US congress You see how the funding is distrubuted and total spending was around $4.83 billion in 2005. 

Its not about trying to raise money privately, but to advocate for proper funding distribution from within... Lance has the ability to do this, but he chooses to "race" instead. (Puchase his way into the Tour de France through Astana, Kazachstan.)

Now, Breast and Corectal Cancer got around 800 million in 05 and 750 million in 07.

U.S. Federal Funding for HIV/AIDS is $22.8 billion. The number of people that get aids is far less than the number that receive the main types of cancer listed above. HIV_AIDS Funding

The funding was for a world-effort. However, Approximately $18.9 billion
(83%) of the FY 2007 HIV/AIDS request was for domestic
programs.

If funding ratios switched around, that would be an incredible boost.


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## cyklopath (Feb 24, 2007)

F1, you are right. Federal funding is important. If memory serves me right, Lance has been in front of elected leaders lobbying for that funding many times this year. 

You mention HIV/AIDS having higher funding. Why is that so? - Because at one time it had much higher 'awareness' among the general populace, and as a result it got more Federal $$'s. 

Lance stated he wanted to raise 'awareness', and based on past facts and results, it seems like an appropriate tactic. 

As a person who has lost countless friends to the disease and with a family riddled with the disease, I hope he succeeds.


Oh yeah, back to the topic of the thread....... it will end in tears for someone and will make a good read some day.


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