# Movistar problems with gearing/sram



## KoroninK (Aug 9, 2010)

There were rumors going around that Valverde specifically but many riders at Movistar were suffering due to gearing issues from the switch to sram. Dani Navarro confirmed that. He explained that last year Katusha was using sram and the entire team was suffering badly finishing races with no energy and the same thing is now being seen with Movistar. Also sram is refusing to provide Valverde with the gearing he has used for over 20 years of racing. He is extremely unhappy and frustrated. Navarro did say that unlike Katusha who wouldn't force a chance mid season Movistar is making changes and Valverde has had two changes in gearing since leaving for UAE Tour. (Rumor was that he was threatening not to race if they didn't fix the gearing issues which he's been complaining about and arguing with team management about since before the season started.) Although the gearing he had for stsage 5 was better it's still not good and they still haven't gotten the issue fixed. Some thoughts are that many of the Movistar riders are going to start showing up to races with Shimano and Campy gearing disguised as sram.


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## Peter P. (Dec 30, 2006)

What's the issue? If the gearing is high enough and low enough, then it should not matter. Even with 10 cogs there's plenty to find the right gear for the conditions.

Riders rider what their sponsors provide, and that may change on a year to year basis: Shimano, SRAM, Campy. I don't see them complaining they don't have the *brand* they prefer.


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## KoroninK (Aug 9, 2010)

As stated above riders end races with no energy and sram forces everyone to ride a 50 X 10 even if that doesn't work for them. According to Navarro this happens to everyone who uses sram and doesn't force them to give better or different gearing.

That's just it the gearing isn't low enough. Sram doesn't make a 53 x 11 and that's what Valverde has raced for over 20 years and the 50 x 10 is hurting him physically and killing his muscles leaving him with no power. It's trying to make him ride at a higher cadence than he can ride at. He's a power rider not a high cadence rider. It's bad enough he's threatening to not race unless it gets fixed. This is someone who in past years would begging the team to race more. It's not the brand, it's the gearing that doesn't work. 
Also last year Mollama tweet about issues with sram.


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## KoroninK (Aug 9, 2010)

This is the article and interview with Navarro. I hadn't posted it before due to it being in Spanish, but if anyone wants to read Spanish here it is. 
https://www.marca.com/ciclismo/2020/02/28/5e57b940e2704e1e6c8b45b7.html


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## epicxt (Apr 26, 2005)

I’m not sure if I’m getting your point correctly, but I’m pretty sure 50 x 10 is a bigger gear than 53 x 11, so should allow a lower cadence. Seems like there are plenty of ratios that should work. I think 48 x 10 is almost identical to 53 x 11. 
Am I missing something?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Peter P. (Dec 30, 2006)

epicxt said:


> I’m not sure if I’m getting your point correctly, but I’m pretty sure 50 x 10 is a bigger gear than 53 x 11, so should allow a lower cadence. Seems like there are plenty of ratios that should work. I think 48 x 10 is almost identical to 53 x 11.
> Am I missing something?
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


53 x 11 = 4.8, or 130 gear inches.
50 x 10 =5.0, or 135 gear inches.
48 x 10 = 4.8, or equal to 53 x 11.

I used 27" for a wheel diameter to calculate the gear inches.

If you can't win with 10, 11, or 12 cogs, the problem is you, not the gearing. A poor rider always blames his equipment.


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## epicxt (Apr 26, 2005)

Peter P. said:


> 53 x 11 = 4.8, or 130 gear inches.
> 50 x 10 =5.0, or 135 gear inches.
> 48 x 10 = 4.8, or equal to 53 x 11.
> 
> ...


Yeah, that was what I was thinking as well. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## rideit (Feb 8, 2005)

Math is a b¡tch.


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## KoroninK (Aug 9, 2010)

Someone with 128 pro wins and a lot more podiums than that (and good luck counting the other top 5's and top 10's) isn't a poor rider. However, they need to get the proper equivalent from sram for Alejandro instead of making him ride a gearing that isn't work. Also is it really a good idea to make someone change what they've ridden for 20 plus years to something else even more so when the team knows extremely well that Alejandro specifically doesn't adjust to change well at all. He preforms much better when he is comfortable with familiar things.
Regardless of which way it needs to go, it's obvious that a 50 X 10 isn't working so shouldn't they be looking for other gearing that the company makes and swapping it out until they find the correct combination? When a rider is in pain due to different gearing, isn't that a problem? When a rider can't use his very well known sprint speed at the end of a race because he has no power due to the gearing, isn't that a problem? Apparently for stage 5 of UAE the team was sent a different diameter 50 X 10 gearing for his bike and he said it was better than the first one he was using but that it was still not right and they needed to keep looking for something different.


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## PoorInRichfield (Nov 30, 2013)

To add fuel to the fire, GCN's review of the Cobbled Classics shows that Trek is running SRAM with a non-commercially available 54/41t chain ring set where as Movistar is using the 50/37t as mentioned in this post. Maybe Trek has more influence over SRAM than Movistar does?

[video]https://youtu.be/jYw5QaVyUoE?t=367[/video]


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## KoroninK (Aug 9, 2010)

Trek's been using their stuff longer so may have more pull. That's why I think Movistar riders need to be vocal to the media. Basically tell sram fix it or we start complaining to the media. For stage of UAE they sent Valverde a bran new and different chain ring set than the team had had before. He's still not happy with it although said it was at least rideable vs what he had before that. His threat to not race may have finally broken sram to start sending them other options.


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## Peter P. (Dec 30, 2006)

KoroninK said:


> ...Also is it really a good idea to make someone change what they've ridden for 20 plus years to something else even more so when the team knows extremely well that Alejandro specifically doesn't adjust to change well at all. He preforms much better when he is comfortable with familiar things.
> ...


I'll bet in all of Valverde's career he's ridden *all* the various available brands. He rides what sponsorship is able to provide.

Improvise, adapt, overcome. Or be a petulant pro.


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## PoorInRichfield (Nov 30, 2013)

Semi related to this topic, I watched a video on Trek's Katie Compton (a top female CX racer) and was surprised to find out that she and her husband are self-sponsored for the exact reason mentioned here... she doesn't want to be told what she has to ride, she wants to win races.


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## KoroninK (Aug 9, 2010)

Peter P. said:


> I'll bet in all of Valverde's career he's ridden *all* the various available brands. He rides what sponsorship is able to provide.
> 
> Improvise, adapt, overcome. Or be a petulant pro.


For 20 plus years until THIS YEAR he has always been provided with the specific (or exact equivalent) gearing to what he has asked for because it's what he needs. When you do NOT have proper gearing you are NOT going to do as well as you will WITH proper gearing. He should NOT have adapt and LOSE power because the company refuses to provide him with his needed gearing. Sram is REFUSING to provide the team with any gearing that is not 50 X 10. Not everyone can ride that gearing. He finally got them to give him a 52 monogear, which he proved monogearing isn't exactly helpful either. Actually being a pro at his level does mean he has the RIGHT to FORCE the company to give him the equipment he NEEDS to proform at the level expected of him. He has a RIGHT to expect the equipment being provided to not actually HARM him. My suggest to him for improvise would be to go buy the Campy gearing he likes and disguise it and ride that and sram to F off or prove proper gearing. The only reason the bran is the problem is because they are trying to FORCE the entire team to ride a very specific gearing that is NOT correct for everyone. Why the H should he resign himself to having the end of his career destroyed by bad equipment? Why do you think an athlete should be required to suffer damage to his body because of bad equipment? Again the reason the brand is the problem is because they are refusing to provide their equivalent of a 53 x 11 to Movistar for him. If he had his correct gearing he wouldn't be so unhappy.


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## 202cycle (Sep 13, 2011)

What percentage of a race is spent in the 53x11 or 50x10? My guess is very little. I also think OP is being a bit dramatic about this.


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## tlg (May 11, 2011)

A 53x11 at 100 rpm PRODUCES 37.71mph.
A 50x10 at 97 rpm PRODUCES 37.95mph.

If YOU are a PRO for 20 PLUS years and THREE rpm is SUDDENLY causing YOU to be a LOSER.... perhaps it is TIME for you to HANG it up. Slowing DOWN by THREE rpm is NOT going to HARM you.


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## 202cycle (Sep 13, 2011)

tlg said:


> A 53x11 at 100 rpm PRODUCES 37.71mph.
> A 50x10 at 97 rpm PRODUCES 37.95mph.
> 
> If YOU are a PRO for 20 PLUS years and THREE rpm is SUDDENLY causing YOU to be a LOSER.... perhaps it is TIME for you to HANG it up. Slowing DOWN by THREE rpm is NOT going to HARM you.


OP's argument however (which is WRONG) is that the 50x10 is forcing Valverde to ride higher cadence than the 53x11. As you pointed out, that is the exact opposite of what is happening. Now, I would say that speeds of 37+ mph is most likely less that 1% of a pro bike race. This is going to turn into one of those threads where the OP won't give up the lame argument they are making and we get 2 pages of back and forth before the OP gives up and stops posting.


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## 202cycle (Sep 13, 2011)

KoroninK said:


> For 20 plus years until THIS YEAR he has always been provided with the specific (or exact equivalent) gearing to what he has asked for because it's what he needs. When you do NOT have proper gearing you are NOT going to do as well as you will WITH proper gearing. He should NOT have adapt and LOSE power because the company refuses to provide him with his needed gearing. Sram is REFUSING to provide the team with any gearing that is not 50 X 10. Not everyone can ride that gearing. He finally got them to give him a 52 monogear, which he proved monogearing isn't exactly helpful either. Actually being a pro at his level does mean he has the RIGHT to FORCE the company to give him the equipment he NEEDS to proform at the level expected of him. He has a RIGHT to expect the equipment being provided to not actually HARM him. My suggest to him for improvise would be to go buy the Campy gearing he likes and disguise it and ride that and sram to F off or prove proper gearing. The only reason the bran is the problem is because they are trying to FORCE the entire team to ride a very specific gearing that is NOT correct for everyone. Why the H should he resign himself to having the end of his career destroyed by bad equipment? Why do you think an athlete should be required to suffer damage to his body because of bad equipment? Again the reason the brand is the problem is because they are refusing to provide their equivalent of a 53 x 11 to Movistar for him. If he had his correct gearing he wouldn't be so unhappy.


My head is spinning! 
#1 Do you know what the contractual agreement between Trek and SRAM is? Maybe Trek can swap out to a different manufactures crank if they want. Trek is by the way one of the largest bike manufacturers in the world and purchase a TON of product from SRAM.
#2 A rider will spend very little time in the 50x10 or 53x11. Certainly not enough time to cause himself harm.
#3 Do you have a copy of Valverde's contract? Because, obviously if he is not getting the 53x11 that he so desperately needs to be a professional cyclist and not destroy the twilight of his career, than he does not have the RIGHT to FORCE SRAM to do anything.


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## Mapei (Feb 3, 2004)

Let the dude ride the gearing he wants. He's experienced enough to know what's what with his body. It's like forcing somebody to wear glasses that don't give correct vision and then giving them trouble for not being able to read that tiny line at the bottom of the eye chart.


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## 202cycle (Sep 13, 2011)

Mapei said:


> Let the dude ride the gearing he wants. He's experienced enough to know what's what with his body. It's like forcing somebody to wear glasses that don't give correct vision and then giving them trouble for not being able to read that tiny line at the bottom of the eye chart.


SRAM does not offer the crank with options above 50t


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## Mapei (Feb 3, 2004)

202cycle said:


> SRAM does not offer the crank with options above 50t


Have a machine shop fabricate them for the guy's bikes. Make sure nobody gets wise to it.


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## 202cycle (Sep 13, 2011)

Alejandro: Hi machine shop guy, this is Alejandro. Can you make me some chainrings?

Machine shop guy: Sure. That will be $3000.

Alejandro: OK, let me know when they are ready.

I'll also need a bunch of one piece 12 speed cassettes using a patented design to mount it to the wheel so I can run an 11 tooth small cog.

Machine shop guy: No


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## Peter P. (Dec 30, 2006)

202cycle said:


> What percentage of a race is spent in the 53x11 or 50x10? My guess is very little. I also think OP is being a bit dramatic about this.


Thank you.


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## KoroninK (Aug 9, 2010)

IMO what he should do at this point is just go buy the product he needs from from the local shop that takes care of amateur team's bikes. Basically see if they can order what needs without any manufacturer name/logos on it, put on his bike and let Sram get upset he isn't using their stuff because they either can't or won't provide what he wants.

I'm under the impression that the big ring is the much bigger issue than the small ring is.

(Of course he also would prefer to have rim brakes back. He hates the disk brakes, but isn't threatening to not race because of them.)

He showed up at UAE Tour with a monoring that is a 52. Even though it didn't work at all for the first climbing stage he was much happier with it on the flat stages than the he's been with the 50 X 10. For stage 5 they sent him a bran new different diameter 50 X 10 rings, which he said was better but still not what he needs and they need to go back and do more work and get him another set because it's still not correct. So the fact that sram has sent two new rings one mono and a new set in the span of a week means his complaining actually DID force sram to send more options that they were refusing to send before. At 39 years old he has EARNED the right to demand to have the components he wants and he needs for his bike.


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## 202cycle (Sep 13, 2011)

KoroninK said:


> IMO what he should do at this point is just go buy the product he needs from from the local shop that takes care of amateur team's bikes. Basically see if they can order what needs without any manufacturer name/logos on it, put on his bike and let Sram get upset he isn't using their stuff because they either can't or won't provide what he wants.
> 
> I'm under the impression that the big ring is the much bigger issue than the small ring is.
> 
> ...


What does that even mean? Different diameter 50t ring?


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## tlg (May 11, 2011)

202cycle said:


> What does that even mean? Different diameter 50t ring?


Sounds a WHOLE lot like making sh#it UP. It would DEFY the laws of PHYSICS to have chainrings of 50 TEETH spaced 1/2" and have different DIAMETERS. 
Oh... maybe they MADE a special chain too with a 9/16" pitch! Then he can HAVE a different DIAMETER 50T. :idea:


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## 202cycle (Sep 13, 2011)

tlg said:


> Sounds a WHOLE lot like making sh#it UP. It would DEFY the laws of PHYSICS to have chainrings of 50 TEETH spaced 1/2" and have different DIAMETERS.
> Oh... maybe they MADE a special chain too with a 9/16" pitch! Then he can HAVE a different DIAMETER 50T. :idea:


Right? This just gets more ridiculous with every new post from the OP. If Valverde can't adapt to using a 50x10 instead of a 53x11 for just the very few moments of a professional bicycle race, he needs to just call it quits. OP should do the same.


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## Finx (Oct 19, 2017)

There are two sides to this argument. Neither are wrong (or right).

1. Valverde signed a contract to ride for this team. Presumably that contract says he'll ride the equipment the sponsors provide - so he should.
2. Valverde is a seasoned veteran rider with a very impressive palmares - the team should provide him the equipment he prefers to ride.


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## 202cycle (Sep 13, 2011)

Finx said:


> There are two sides to this argument. Neither are wrong (or right).
> 
> 1. Valverde signed a contract to ride for this team. Presumably that contract says he'll ride the equipment the sponsors provide - so he should.
> 2. Valverde is a seasoned veteran rider with a very impressive palmares - the team should provide him the equipment he prefers to ride.


Except that #2 is overridden by #1. SRAM provides the components the riders are under contract to use. SRAM does not make a direct mount double chainring set with a big ring larger than 50t. Therefore, the riders will be riding 50t chainrings.


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## tlg (May 11, 2011)

Finx said:


> 2. Valverde is a seasoned veteran rider with a very impressive palmares - the team should provide him the equipment he prefers to ride.


Sure. If it was a matter of simply swapping a cassette or chaining. Or perhaps swapping a saddle or handlebar and putting tape over the manufacturers name.

But it's not that simple. There is no cassette with <10T cog. And Sram does not make a crank/chainring >50T. The only option is a crank from another manufacturer. Which you can't just put a piece of tape over to hide the brand. There's no way they're gonna let him put a Campy crank on it.

Of course there is another option. Valverde can just slow down his cadence by 3rpm while going *downhill *at 38mph. Because he's not holding that speed solo on a flat.


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## KoroninK (Aug 9, 2010)

202cycle said:


> What does that even mean? Different diameter 50t ring?


He said the diameter of the ring isn't the same as the one he had to start the season but they are saying it's still a 50.


This is what he said about the new one he got at UAE for stage 5:
Estamos con el 50x10, no es igual que los anteriores. En metros es muy similar pero no es lo mismo.

This is the translation:
We are with 50x10, it is not the same as the previous ones. In meters it is very similar but it is not the same.

Another comment he made:

Todo se está barajando y se está trabajando en ello.
No quiero echar leña al fuego. 

Translation:
Everything is being considered and work is being done on it.
I don't want to add fuel to the fire.


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## 202cycle (Sep 13, 2011)

KoroninK said:


> He said the diameter of the ring isn't the same as the one he had to start the season but they are saying it's still a 50.
> 
> 
> This is what he said about the new one he got at UAE for stage 5:
> ...



Where are these comments coming from? It's a 50x10 but not the same as the other 50x10?


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## Mapei (Feb 3, 2004)

The situation seems to be giving both sides a black eye. Valverde is seen as a primadonna. SRAM comes off as corporate & clumsy.


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## tlg (May 11, 2011)

KoroninK said:


> He said the diameter of the ring isn't the same as the one he had to start the season but they are saying it's still a 50.
> 
> 
> This is what he said about the new one he got at UAE for stage 5:
> ...


Where did he say the diameter isn't the same? He's talking about meters of development of a 50x10.

It appears you're depending a lot on google translate and you're a bit lost in translation.


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## 202cycle (Sep 13, 2011)

Mapei said:


> The situation seems to be giving both sides a black eye. Valverde is seen as a primadonna. SRAM comes off as corporate & clumsy.


SRAM is the component supplier. They produce chainrings for this crank no larger than 50t. Moviestar knew this when they went in. SRAM are corporate, they are a worldwide supplier of bicycle components. I see no reason why they should compromise their component groups integrity for Alejandro Valverde.


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## KoroninK (Aug 9, 2010)

These comments are from an interview he did during UAE. He's made other comments that aren't public. He's not saying more publicly because of the comment above about not wanting to throw more fuel on the fire.

They could give more options than just one set esp when there are multiple riders not happy. It's just Valverde is the only one being extremely vocal about the problems and forcing them to do something.


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## coldash (May 7, 2012)

I suspect the truth is somewhat closer to Valverde doesn’t like SRAM stuff ( for whatever reason) rather than anything to do with gearing. There are plenty of examples of top riders not using the chosen equipment of the team supplier e.g. Nibali refused electronic changers for a long time, albeit from the chosen supplier and Wiggins used Speedplay rather than Shimano pedals/cleats.


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## Coolhand (Jul 28, 2002)

lol Valverde


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## 202cycle (Sep 13, 2011)

Coolhand said:


> lol Valverde


lol is right. Valverde.


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## ogre (Dec 16, 2005)

KoroninK said:


> It's just Valverde is the only one being extremely vocal about the problems and forcing them to do something.


I can’t find it on my phone, but I’ve seen a video of Jakob Fulsang, while getting assistance from his team car yelling ‘F*** SRAM!’ at the top of his lungs.


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## Finx (Oct 19, 2017)

ogre said:


> I can’t find it on my phone, but I’ve seen a video of Jakob Fulsang, while getting assistance from his team car yelling ‘F*** SRAM!’ at the top of his lungs.


It was actually Bauke Mollema


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## KoroninK (Aug 9, 2010)

ogre said:


> I can’t find it on my phone, but I’ve seen a video of Jakob Fulsang, while getting assistance from his team car yelling ‘F*** SRAM!’ at the top of his lungs.


Mollema posted a picture and said F*** sram. So yeah, there are riders who have expressed their displeasure with sram before.


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## 202cycle (Sep 13, 2011)

KoroninK said:


> Mollema posted a picture and said F*** sram. So yeah, there are riders who have expressed their displeasure with sram before.


Correct, but the issues they had were not related to a 50t large chainring and 10t small cog. Their mechanical issues may or may not have been directly related to the fact they were on SRAM components. I ride Shimano on my road bikes and prefer working on the Shimano stuff compared to SRAM.
Stick to the topic at hand. ogre's post and your post that I quoted are just not related to the original post.


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## burgrat (Nov 18, 2005)

Finx said:


> It was actually Bauke Mollema


I remember watching that live. Funny! Felt bad for Molema though.


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## Wookiebiker (Sep 5, 2005)

KoroninK said:


> He said the diameter of the ring isn't the same as the one he had to start the season but they are saying it's still a 50.
> 
> 
> This is what he said about the new one he got at UAE for stage 5:
> ...


If what you are saying is true … it's all in his head, a psychological problem from somebody at the end of their career.

This isn't a gearing issue, it's a ... blame the equipment because I'm getting old and slowing down issue. Everybody except for Valverde and you can see this.

Gearing is gearing. The only argument that can be made is smaller rings are "Slightly" less efficient than larger rings due to tighter turns, but that can be resolved with large pullies, and the difference is not enough to make him tired at the end of a race.

The simple fact is Valverde needs to retire from a long, somewhat controversial cycling career … call it good, coach, lead a team, get endorsements and sell stuff, but stop racing and stop blaming your equipment. His results won't improve regardless of gearing or manufacture of components they use.


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## KoroninK (Aug 9, 2010)

Wookiebiker said:


> If what you are saying is true … it's all in his head, a psychological problem from somebody at the end of their career.
> 
> This isn't a gearing issue, it's a ... blame the equipment because I'm getting old and slowing down issue. Everybody except for Valverde and you can see this.
> 
> ...


Except for the fact that, as posted earlier in this thread another rider from another team has come out and said the entire Katusha team was suffering the exact same problems last year with sram and having the team bought out by ICA and switching over to Shimano the problems were solved. Thus showing there is a physical problem and not a psychological one.

By the way he's going to be coaching for Movistar after he retires. That's been stated this year.


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## Wookiebiker (Sep 5, 2005)

KoroninK said:


> Except for the fact that, as posted earlier in this thread another rider from another team has come out and said the entire Katusha team was suffering the exact same problems last year with sram and having the team bought out by ICA and switching over to Shimano the problems were solved. Thus showing there is a physical problem and not a psychological one.
> 
> By the way he's going to be coaching for Movistar after he retires. That's been stated this year.



That's purely mental … nothing more nothing less.

Gearing is gearing, there isn't any difference between Shimano, Campy, ROTOR or SRAM. The gear ratios are close enough, that if you change them on a rider without them knowing it, they couldn't tell the difference.

When something like this comes out … it has more to do with money, than performance. Valverde wants more money to ride SRAM and until he gets it, he will bad mouth SRAM … or Movistar will change to Shimano where he gets paid more.

The bike is a tool … they all can beat us on a beach cruiser. The difference in equipment at that level is pretty much ZERO, and the gearing isn't the issue. Believe the riders all you want, but when they are *****ing about equipment it's generally because they are not getting paid as much. When the money issue is resolved, magically … the equipment issue is as well.

This is an economics and aging issue … nothing more, nothing less.


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## KoroninK (Aug 9, 2010)

Wookiebiker said:


> That's purely mental … nothing more nothing less.
> 
> Gearing is gearing, there isn't any difference between Shimano, Campy, ROTOR or SRAM. The gear ratios are close enough, that if you change them on a rider without them knowing it, they couldn't tell the difference.
> 
> ...


Then explain why he's saying he's have muscular problems from the sram gearing. He's typically ridden Campy as a pro. However, his personal bikes have both Campy and Shimano and his amateur team uses Shimano.

Here's the other issue, what I posted above from one interview is the only thing he's said publicly, the rest of his complaints have all been privately. Granted that includes complaining to the team (including a threat to not race) and to family and friends.

Also he was given 2 new sets of gearing for UAE Tour. The first was a monogear, which he was happier with for the flat stages, but was a problem for climbing (which isn't surprising). Then the night before the final stage (before quarantine) they flew in a bran new set of gears that the mechanics were up late putting on his bike. He said the new said although still not correct was better and said there still needs to be more work done. He wants something better before Catalonia. Although he won't threaten to not race Catalonia because it is a Spanish race and he will be there for his fans. He willing to not race UAE Tour and give up a HUGE appearance fee over sram gearing. The appearance fee he gets for UAE is higher than anything he's getting paid to race any brand of gearing.


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## tlg (May 11, 2011)

KoroninK said:


> Then explain why he's saying he's have muscular problems from the sram gearing.


It's easy to explain. He's full of sh!t. 
Pedaling 3rpm different (downhill) doesnt cause muscular problems. 

This is ridiculous.


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## Wookiebiker (Sep 5, 2005)

KoroninK said:


> Then explain why he's saying he's have muscular problems from the sram gearing.


It's pretty simple and comes down to one of two things:

1. He's aging, lying and is struggling. It happens to EVERYBODY as they get older, he's 39 and at the twilight of his career. Any excuse he can find to explain poor performances helps him believe he still has what it takes to compete at that level. Gearing/equipment is where this tends to get directed because it's easy to say … "If I only had Shimano or Campy, I'd be winning again". When he still struggles after switching back, it will be a new excuse.

2. Money … he's not getting what he wants, so he's throwing a baby tantrum about gearing. Bad mouth the company and it's product until they pay you what you want. It's an age old tactic in sports and isn't going away anytime soon … mostly performed by pampered babies who think their $hit don't stink. Valverde falls into that category at this point.

The simple fact you are buying his "Excuse" hook, line and sinker is on you … it's been pointed out time and time again, the gearing is essentially the same … it's not the issue. Valverde is, the sooner you, he, his team and his sponsors recognize this and stop pandering to him, the sooner it goes away. The reality is it's time for him to retire, he just can't come to terms with it. 

Remember … craftsmen never blame the tools, they blame the craftsman. I true craftsman can build a work of art with nothing more than a hammer and chisel. A bike is a tool, the rider a craftsman, only those that can't hack it any longer start to blame the bike … and guess what? People lie!


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## KoroninK (Aug 9, 2010)

Wookiebiker said:


> It's pretty simple and comes down to one of two things:
> 
> 1. He's aging, lying and is struggling. It happens to EVERYBODY as they get older, he's 39 and at the twilight of his career. Any excuse he can find to explain poor performances helps him believe he still has what it takes to compete at that level. Gearing/equipment is where this tends to get directed because it's easy to say … "If I only had Shimano or Campy, I'd be winning again". When he still struggles after switching back, it will be a new excuse.
> 
> ...



The problem with your second point about money is that basically he's doing his complaining behind closed doors and not publicly. He's complaining to the team, to family and friends, but when asked by the media is being much softer about the complaints. Plus the threat to not race UAE doesn't add up to that as UAE's appearance fee alone is more than the majority of the cyclist make in a year. His public comment about his possibly not having raced UAE was that he was sick. 

Is age affecting him, sure, but you don't decline that quickly without other factors at play. The issue with sram is there are other riders on other teams who have said there are problems with sram equipment compared to both Campy and Shimano.


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## tlg (May 11, 2011)

KoroninK said:


> The problem with your second point about money is that basically he's doing his complaining behind closed doors and not publicly. He's complaining to the team, to family and friends, but when asked by the media is being much softer about the complaints. .


You keep saying this. If it's behind CLOSED doors where are YOU getting your information from? 

We have no evidence of anything you are saying about what other people are "saying". 
What we do have proof of is physics. 
And it disputes what you're saying.


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## Wookiebiker (Sep 5, 2005)

KoroninK said:


> The problem with your second point about money is that basically he's doing his complaining behind closed doors and not publicly.


So, how exactly did you hear about it?



> Plus the threat to not race UAE doesn't add up to that as UAE's appearance fee alone is more than the majority of the cyclist make in a year. His public comment about his possibly not having raced UAE was that he was sick.


At Valverde's salary, do you really think he cares about appearance fees? He's not exactly a domestique! His threat at not racing is directly aimed at SRAM. This hurts business more than anything because then people ask … "What's wrong with SRAM? Should I buy it or Shimano/Campy? This is how you indirectly threaten a sponsor to get what you want. It's a time honored way of doing business in the sports world.

This is not quantum physics, so I'm not sure how you are not seeing it.




> Is age affecting him, sure, but you don't decline that quickly without other factors at play.


How old are you? I can tell you from experience, when it goes … it GOES! Performance does start to decline quickly at his age … otherwise you would see lots of 38, 39, 40+ year old cycling pros and in other sports. A 1% drop in performance drops him from peloton leading to out of a contract, so ANY decline is a major factor.




> The issue with sram is there are other riders on other teams who have said there are problems with sram equipment compared to both Campy and Shimano.


Other teams may not like SRAM, but it's not a gearing issue as you and Valverde are claiming … some just don't like it's ergonomics or the way it operates compared to other systems. Just as you might prefer Shimano over SRAM, so do Pro's … but they are paid to ride their equipment, so they ride it like professionals! If they don't want to ride a specific brand … they must change teams to do so, or convince their team to strike a better deal with another manufacture.

Again … simple math proves both you and Valverde wrong … again, this isn't quantum physics, it's cycling. The math proves both you and Valverde to be incorrect and years of sports science prove both of you wrong as well. This is about age and money … nothing more, nothing less.

Hopefully you will figure it out sooner or later, you don't seem to be grasping the concept at this point though.


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## KoroninK (Aug 9, 2010)

tlg said:


> You keep saying this. If it's behind CLOSED doors where are YOU getting your information from?
> 
> We have no evidence of anything you are saying about what other people are "saying".
> What we do have proof of is physics.
> And it disputes what you're saying.


I have friends who are friends of him (and are training partners of his). Also someone on Spanish boards who says he has inside knowledge of the team has said also said these things. He's made comments about things inside the team in the past that have all turned out to be true a while after he's talked about it. Here's this: https://www.reddit.com/r/peloton/comments/f77w6v/free_talk_friday/fi9mxpc/


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## tlg (May 11, 2011)

KoroninK said:


> I have friends who are friends of him (and are training partners of his). Also someone on Spanish boards who says he has inside knowledge of the team has said also said these things.


Oh sure. 




> He's made comments about things inside the team in the past that have all turned out to be true a while after he's talked about it.


While he may have said these things.... saying them doesn't make them true. Doesn't dispute physics.


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## tlg (May 11, 2011)

Valverde doesn't share his ride data on Stava (imagine that). But other pros do.

This is Thomas De Gendt's TT from last years TdF (he was 35 seconds faster than Valverde) . On the 3 mi gradual downhill section his average speed is 29mph. And max speed is 33mph. His cadence varies way more than 3rpm. 
https://www.strava.com/activities/2546006530/analysis/1878/2328










A 50x10 at 97 rpm would produce 37.95mph. More than enough gearing. It's simply ridiculous to believe that Valverde is riding 50x10 for any significant time to be causing 'damage' to his legs.


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## 202cycle (Sep 13, 2011)

This thread is ludicrous.


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## Wookiebiker (Sep 5, 2005)

Sooo ... what you are saying is you are a Valverde "Fan Boy", who doesn't want to see his decline in performance and will believe what he says around gearing being the issue.

Got it :thumbsup:


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## 202cycle (Sep 13, 2011)

Wookiebiker said:


> Sooo ... what you are saying is you are a Valverde "Fan Boy", who doesn't want to see his decline in performance and will believe what he says around gearing being the issue.
> 
> Got it :thumbsup:


I think that pretty much sums it up.


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## Fredrico (Jun 15, 2002)

Wow, interesting complaint these pros all have against 50 x 10 gearing. Wookie nailed it:

_The only argument that can be made is smaller rings are "Slightly" *less efficient than larger rings due to tighter turns,* but that can be resolved with large pullies, and the difference is not enough to make him tired at the end of a race._

Torque issues aren't going to be solved by derailleur pulleys, but right on about tighter turns being slightly less efficient than larger turns, and yes, they'll take their toll on the legs by the end of the race, as Valverde complains.

Francesco Moser broke Eddy Merckx's hour track record by going to 55t. front ring. Eddy used a 52, in about the same gear inches, but Moser thought he was getting a bit more leverage out of the larger hoops and was saving his legs. 

I always felt comfortable going into the 52-17 or 19 on the flats, instead of staying in 42 or worse, 39, and going into a smaller cog in back to get the cadence right. Smaller cogs front and back are indeed less efficient. The legs have to overcome inertia, those tighter turns, more than on larger rings. Heck, even 42 is just about right on shallow grades, IME. I have a 43 on the commuter and don't even notice the difference, but get a slightly better kick out of it going up hills in 43-28. 

So back to that nice 53-12 or 13, and 39 or 42t inner ring. Forget these experiments in lower gears to create "fast cadences," but really marketed to accommodate mortals with weaker legs. The Moviestar pros are finding these gears quite the opposite and are beating up their legs trying to keep up torque. Bigger cogs spread torque out around the crank. 

Paris-Roubaix riders use huge gears on the cobbles, like 54 and 55t chain rings on larger cogs in back. Slower cadences pushing big gears holds the bike on the cobbles much better than spinning in gears with little resistance.


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