# Good Bike for around $600



## xhale (Feb 19, 2010)

I know my price range might be on the cheaper side but I'm looking for some good bikes for around $600. I'm very new to the biking thing and I don't know very much about brands or a good price, so I'm just looking for a right direction. I plan on doing some small triathlons and general biking with friends. I wouldn't mind building a kit... are those cheaper? What bike would you recommend? Thanks


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## frdfandc (Nov 27, 2007)

Building a bike is far more expensive than going to a shop and purchasing one. However the upside to building is that you get the exact bike you want first time around, instead of making changes.

For the $600 range, you probably want to look into a used bike, especially if planning on doing triathalons.


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## California L33 (Jan 20, 2006)

A competitive Tri bike for $600 is a tall order, for a bike for riding with friends it won't be much of a problem. frdfandc has a good idea, buying a used bike, purchased from a bike shop, will give you good bang for the buck, and little chance of being saddled with a lemon if you deal with a good shop. 

You can buy older models online from a store like Bicycle Bananas, and get good prices on name brand bikes. Of course you're stuck with limited selection and sizes, but they may have what you're looking for. There are online stores like Bicycles Direct that sell their own brands. You usually get a good bike with a better groupo for less money than you'll find at a local bike shop, but you're not getting a $3000 bike for $500 no mater what the advertising says. Direct sellers like BD have proponents and detractors. There are many threads here with both sides. The biggest problem you'll find with online purchasing is that you get no servicing included.


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## Henry Chinaski (Feb 3, 2004)

Hard to beat this for $600, unless you shop used. Add clip on aero bars for the triathlon and you're good to go.

http://www.specialized.com/us/en/bc/SBCBkModel.jsp?spid=45678&eid=4350


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## xhale (Feb 19, 2010)

Well the triathlons are pretty short ~20miles of riding. Any idea where I can get a Fuji Ace? I've heard some good things about them


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## xhale (Feb 19, 2010)

Haha I was just looking at Allez's. Do you think thats the best bike for around $600?


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## Blue CheeseHead (Jul 14, 2008)

For $600, I would go used. If you go 5-6 years old you can get something that was 3-4 times more expensive when new. As long as it was reasonably cared for, it will have many more miles left in it. The best part is you can ride it for a year or two and then sell it for most, if not all, of what you have into it.

A "Tri" bike is a different animal than a "Road" bike. Road bikes tend to be more comfortable for long rides and less twitchy. If you are just getting into tris, you might just want to get a road bike and put aero bars on it. Plenty of people do.


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## xhale (Feb 19, 2010)

It seems like most people are telling me to buy used, which I think I'm going to do. What brands do you recommend if I buy used?


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## MontyCrisco (Sep 21, 2008)

xhale said:


> It seems like most people are telling me to buy used, which I think I'm going to do. What brands do you recommend if I buy used?


The answer to this question lies in beginner forum. The short answer you'll get there is to focus not on the brand name but on fit and componentry.


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## SimianSpeedster (Mar 13, 2008)

*Beg to differ on this*



Henry Chinaski said:


> Hard to beat this for $600, unless you shop used. Add clip on aero bars for the triathlon and you're good to go.
> 
> http://www.specialized.com/us/en/bc/SBCBkModel.jsp?spid=45678&eid=4350


 recomending a steel frame with sub sora componentry and downtube shifters? For someone who wants to race tri's?? I like specialized as much as the next guy.. first bike I bought for my wife was from their stable and that is a nice bike..and I'd love to have one but its also perhaps one of the poorest fits for his stated purpose. 
http://www.bikesdirect.com/products/motobecane/grand_record_x.htm
Tiagra deruillers sora shifters carbon fork .Much better if you can get past the mail order thing, or live in TX or FL and can try one in person
http://www.performancebike.com/bikes/Product_10052_10551_1073201_-1_1500502_20000_1500505 
Performance has stores all over the US and often has much better prices in store, My father got a previous years fuji with tiagra 105 mix for 50 bucks more than the stated budget.


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## PJ352 (Dec 5, 2007)

SimianSpeedster said:


> recomending *a steel frame with sub sora componentry and downtube shifters? For someone who wants to race tri's?? *I like specialized as much as the next guy.. first bike I bought for my wife was from their stable and that is a nice bike..and I'd love to have one but its also perhaps one of the poorest fits for his stated purpose.
> http://www.bikesdirect.com/products/motobecane/grand_record_x.htm
> Tiagra deruillers sora shifters carbon fork. Much better if you can get past the mail order thing, or live in TX or FL and can try one in person
> http://www.performancebike.com/bikes/Product_10052_10551_1073201_-1_1500502_20000_1500505
> Performance has stores all over the US and often has much better prices in store, My father got a previous years fuji with tiagra 105 mix for 50 bucks more than the stated budget.


Yeah, imagine that. Somebody racing a steel bike with downtube shifters. 
View attachment 191823


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## California L33 (Jan 20, 2006)

xhale said:


> It seems like most people are telling me to buy used, which I think I'm going to do. What brands do you recommend if I buy used?


Specialized, Trek, Giant

This would be a good bike, though most major makers have something similar-

http://www.specialized.com/us/en/bc/SBCBkModel.jsp?spid=45684&eid=4350&menuItemId=0

-as pointed out, a road bike, not a tri bike, but could be used with clamp on aero bars. This is a little above your budget, but a year old used would be right there. You might even be able to pick up a 2009 model new at around $600 if you can find a dealer who has any left. (Most dealers can be talked down a bit on price on a current model year if it's not a hot seller, though it's harder with lower end bikes because there's less markup in the first place. After the model year is over, you can often get them at up to 25% off just to clear stock.)

MonteCrisco is right, though. Make sure you get the right size. Components are important, but you won't be getting top of the line in your price range, even used. Shimano brake/shift levers, even down to Sora, should give you years of good service.

Edit: And the Fuji listed at Performance looks like a perfectly acceptable entry level bike.


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## LMWEL (Jan 5, 2010)

If you're lucky you might find an 09 one of these for around $600 at a Giant shop http://www.giant-bicycles.com/en-US/bikes/model/defy.3/3882/37101/ . But whatever You get make sure the fit and feel is right. Good Luck.


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## xhale (Feb 19, 2010)

Sorry guys, I didn't even see a beginners section. I'll try over there. Thanks for all the quick responses.


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## Trek2.3 (Sep 13, 2009)

Buy a "last year's" model from a good manufacturer. It will be fine as a starter and you can upgrade the components if you want.

2008 Trek 1.2 triple for UNDER $600.
http://penncycle.com/product/08-trek-1.2-triple-37839-1.htm


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## Don Duende (Sep 13, 2007)

Check out this bike from Walmart. It has very good components. An aluminum frame that should hold up to racing. Then you can add on aerobars, later. And it fits your budget. Normally, I would not recommend Walmart but this item is an anomaly.

http://www.walmart.com/catalog/product.do?product_id=5751042&findingMethod=rr#ProductDetail


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## LMWEL (Jan 5, 2010)

*1.2*

The Trek 1.2 is a nice entry level bike ! I almost bought a 2010 model but couldn't resist this...


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## fbagatelleblack (Mar 31, 2005)

Don Duende said:


> Check out this bike from Walmart. It has very good components. An aluminum frame that should hold up to racing. Then you can add on aerobars, later. And it fits your budget. Normally, I would not recommend Walmart but this item is an anomaly.
> 
> http://www.walmart.com/catalog/product.do?product_id=5751042&findingMethod=rr#ProductDetail


Holy Guacamole!!! You could not come close to buying the components gruppo on that bike for $499, let alone the wheels and frame. I may buy one just for components to build up one of the frames I have hanging in my garage!

Cheers,

FB


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## MarvinK (Feb 12, 2002)

Don Duende said:


> Check out this bike from Walmart. It has very good components. An aluminum frame that should hold up to racing. Then you can add on aerobars, later. And it fits your budget. Normally, I would not recommend Walmart but this item is an anomaly.
> 
> http://www.walmart.com/catalog/product.do?product_id=5751042&findingMethod=rr#ProductDetail



I love how Walmart doesn't even bother to assemble the most expensive bike they've ever sold properly! That seat looks more like a slide! 

In any case, $500 w/105 is a good deal... if you're mechanically inclined.


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## SimianSpeedster (Mar 13, 2008)

*funny*



PJ352 said:


> Yeah, imagine that. Somebody racing a steel bike with downtube shifters.
> View attachment 191823


 Funny .. or at least I hope you were trying to be funny... people raced with the tech available when better became available, people upgraded... For example there used to be races with model t fords, and model A's .. Imagine racing with one of those now??? Tech changes people move on. And to seriously suggest that a beginning racer should use down-tubes is dangerous and irresponsible. There are already enough crashes in the lower level races with everyone having both hands on the bars.








VROOOOM!!!


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## MarvinK (Feb 12, 2002)

Ya, and there are $599 options that include modern shifting options. Whether it is online or even local shops. You might be able to find a closeout on an 08 or 09... otherwise even the 2010 Trek 1.1 is $599. I would prefer a used bike at that pricepoint, but make sure it is the right size before you buy it!!!!


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## PJ352 (Dec 5, 2007)

SimianSpeedster said:


> Funny .. or at least I hope you were trying to be funny... people raced with the tech available when better became available, people upgraded... For example there used to be races with model t fords, and model A's .. Imagine racing with one of those now??? Tech changes people move on. *And to seriously suggest that a beginning racer should use down-tubes is dangerous and irresponsible.* There are already enough crashes in the lower level races with everyone having both hands on the bars.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


No, I wasn't intending to be funny. You should reread the OP, because the emphasis wasn't on racing at all. It was on general riding with friends and _'plan on _doing some small tri's'. Hardly a setting where d/ tube shifters pose a risk.

But despite that fact, you offer that the OP should buy a bike online that you presumably think is going to be raced. Assuming s/he's _not_ located in one of the two states BD has stores, s/he can't be sized/ fitted or test ride the bike. I see that advice as irresponsible, considering the importance of fit. 

IMO the OP got much better advice from those suggesting s/he goes through a LBS, taking advantage of the many services they offer and BD (or similar) do not. Same goes for your Performance/ Fuji option _unless_ there's a Performance store near the OP.


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## Don Duende (Sep 13, 2007)

MarvinK said:


> I love how Walmart doesn't even bother to assemble the most expensive bike they've ever sold properly! That seat looks more like a slide!
> 
> In any case, $500 w/105 is a good deal... if you're mechanically inclined.


Please do not go negative on us, Marvin. $499 for Shimano 105 is a screaming deal. No one I know buys a bike for the saddle, please.

Assembly requires attaching the front wheel with a skewer and attaching the handlebars to the stem. Even a noob can do that or take the bike to someone and pay them. $25 shipping to your home is also a deal. Pay a mechanic or a bike knowledgeable friend $25 to set it up and dial it in. Most people would do it for a couple of microbrews.

Edit: The prices (plus shipping) for used bikes on eBay has been ridiculous, lately. Also, risky for a noob with minimal know how.


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## SimianSpeedster (Mar 13, 2008)

*Really???*



PJ352 said:


> No, I wasn't intending to be funny. You should reread the OP, because the emphasis wasn't on racing at all. It was on general riding with friends and _'plan on _doing some small tri's'. Hardly a setting where d/ tube shifters pose a risk.
> 
> But despite that fact, you offer that the OP should buy a bike online that you presumably think is going to be raced. Assuming s/he's _not_ located in one of the two states BD has stores, s/he can't be sized/ fitted or test ride the bike. I see that advice as irresponsible, considering the importance of fit.
> 
> IMO the OP got much better advice from those suggesting s/he goes through a LBS, taking advantage of the many services they offer and BD (or similar) do not. Same goes for your Performance/ Fuji option _unless_ there's a Performance store near the OP.


So You assuming that there is a specialized dealer nearby is fine. but me assuming that maybe one of 80 performance bicycle stores maybe close is a stretch??? also .. other stores sell Fujis as well. 
or live in TX or FL and can try one in person <-- here is where my original post stated that he should maybe go in person to cycle spectrum. 
And yet fit is a concern, but less of a safety concern for other riders than an inexperienced cyclist taking his hands off the handlebars and looking down in the middle of a pack. 
And contending that since he'd only be racing occasionally that the safety risk is not a big deal is ridiculous. like telling a kayacker that only boats whitewater occasionally that not investing in a life jacket is no biggie. I must contend that the danger is increased in pack riding to an even greater degree for someone who hardly ever does that sort of thing and that rider needs every advantage he or she can get. 
http://www.competitivecyclist.com/za/CCY?PAGE=FIT_CALCULATOR_INTRO <-- oh and as far as fit goes.. a tape measure, a level and a friend will give the poster a far better idea of fit and geo that he needs than the average bike shop will offer at 600 bucks. Most of them around here do a simple standover fitting at this level... so Gasp! the OP may end up with a better fitting bike through mailorder


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## xhale (Feb 19, 2010)

So I think I'm pretty much decide on getting the Corsa FA Lightweight from Walmart. I read up on them and it seems like it's the best bang for the buck. I heard that the medium bike size frame was 54cm. I'm 5'9" and wondering if I should get the large or the medium? Also do you have any suggestions on slip in bike pedals?


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## PJ352 (Dec 5, 2007)

SimianSpeedster said:


> So You assuming that there is a specialized dealer nearby is fine. but me assuming that maybe one of 80 performance bicycle stores maybe close is a stretch??? also .. other stores sell Fujis as well.
> or live in TX or FL and can try one in person <-- here is where my original post stated that he should maybe go in person to cycle spectrum.
> And yet fit is a concern, but less of a safety concern for other riders than an inexperienced cyclist taking his hands off the handlebars and looking down in the middle of a pack.
> And contending that since he'd only be racing occasionally that the safety risk is not a big deal is ridiculous. like telling a kayacker that only boats whitewater occasionally that not investing in a life jacket is no biggie. I must contend that the danger is increased in pack riding to an even greater degree for someone who hardly ever does that sort of thing and that rider needs every advantage he or she can get.
> http://www.competitivecyclist.com/za/CCY?PAGE=FIT_CALCULATOR_INTRO <-- oh and as far as fit goes.. a tape measure, a level and a friend will give the poster a far better idea of fit and geo that he needs than the average bike shop will offer at 600 bucks. Most of them around here do a simple standover fitting at this level... so Gasp! the OP may end up with a better fitting bike through mailorder


I don't know what to address first, your melodrama re: "looking down to shift" (WHY?!) and "the danger is increased in pack riding" (Uh, again I say... it's not a race, it's a short tri) or your seeming ignorance re: bike sizing (let alone fit). 

To suggest that an online fit calculator will get better results that an LBS is IMO/ E ludicrous, but coming from a BD fan, I'm not surprised. Next thing you'll tell me is BD Mike is better able to fit someone than most LBS's. Sight unseen, mind you. He's posted that, BTW. 

Finally (and this WILL be final), I didn't assume a Spec dealer was in close proximity of the OP. If one isn't and s/he's not willing to make a trip to one, then yes, another make/ model would suffice. And there's nothing wrong with the Fuji's, as long as the OP can be sized/ fitted by a LBS and test ride any candidates.


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## Don Duende (Sep 13, 2007)

xhale said:


> So I think I'm pretty much decide on getting the Corsa FA Lightweight from Walmart. I read up on them and it seems like it's the best bang for the buck. I heard that the medium bike size frame was 54cm. I'm 5'9" and wondering if I should get the large or the medium? Also do you have any suggestions on slip in bike pedals?


Definitely go with the Medium. Unlikely to be too small and you can very easily replace the stem with a longer one. A 54cm top tube length is good for 5"9".

Many different opinions on pedals, it is all about personal preference. Mine is an inexpensive pedal from Crank Brothers The Smarty. Available under $30 online. They have a flat surface and you can clip in. Here is a link for the pedals

http://www.nashbar.com/bikes/Product_10053_10052_505889_-1_201616_10000_201621
http://www.performancebike.com/bikes/Product_10052_10551_1083761_-1_71500_20000_71501

And for a pair of decent shoes

http://www.nashbar.com/bikes/Product_10053_10052_180598_-1_201485_10000_201488

And you are still under $600.


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## California L33 (Jan 20, 2006)

Don Duende said:


> Please do not go negative on us, Marvin. $499 for Shimano 105 is a screaming deal. No one I know buys a bike for the saddle, please.
> 
> Assembly requires attaching the front wheel with a skewer and attaching the handlebars to the stem. Even a noob can do that or take the bike to someone and pay them. $25 shipping to your home is also a deal. Pay a mechanic or a bike knowledgeable friend $25 to set it up and dial it in. Most people would do it for a couple of microbrews.
> 
> Edit: The prices (plus shipping) for used bikes on eBay has been ridiculous, lately. Also, risky for a noob with minimal know how.


I don't think it's a bad $499 bike, but remember the most expensive part of the bike- the frame. Groupos can be changed if you don't like them, so can wheels, but if you get a frame that isn't great then you pretty much have to chuck the bike rather than upgrade. Zoom in and look at the quality of the welds. It looks like a mountain bike frame. Now let the OP go down and look at the welds on a name brand bike at the LBS. He might not find cheaper (not with 105), but he will find better. That's why a two year old used bike purchased from a LBS might be a better choice. I don't think he'd be unhappy with the Corsa, but I do think he might be happier with something else, and he won't know until he looks.


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## SystemShock (Jun 14, 2008)

PJ352 said:


> To suggest that an online fit calculator will get better results that an LBS is IMO/ E ludicrous, but coming from a BD fan, I'm not surprised. Next thing you'll tell me is BD Mike is better able to fit someone than most LBS's. Sight unseen, mind you. He's posted that, BTW.


Yup, BD Mike sometimes tries a little too hard, and he'll say a few dumb/shill-y things as a result.

The other one that cracks me up is his "test rides are useless at best, and misleading at worst" line. Complete and utter horse-crap (unless you're talking an uber-short, just around the parking lot 'test ride'), but I'm sure he'll keep repeating/defending that line 'til the end of time, because it fits his business model so very well.

NTTAWW online bike shops, but let's not misrepresent their strengths and weaknesses.
.


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## SimianSpeedster (Mar 13, 2008)

*Pah*



PJ352 said:


> I don't know what to address first, your melodrama re: "looking down to shift" (WHY?!) and "the danger is increased in pack riding" (Uh, again I say... it's not a race, it's a short tri) or your seeming ignorance re: bike sizing (let alone fit).
> 
> To suggest that an online fit calculator will get better results that an LBS is IMO/ E ludicrous, but coming from a BD fan, I'm not surprised. Next thing you'll tell me is BD Mike is better able to fit someone than most LBS's. Sight unseen, mind you. He's posted that, BTW.
> 
> Finally (and this WILL be final), I didn't assume a Spec dealer was in close proximity of the OP. If one isn't and s/he's not willing to make a trip to one, then yes, another make/ model would suffice. And there's nothing wrong with the Fuji's, as long as the OP can be sized/ fitted by a LBS and test ride any candidates.


*A triathalon of any length is in fact a race. just because it's a shorter doesn't magically turn it into something else*. a marathon .. is a race of 26.2 miles.. a 100 meter dash is a race of .. wait for it... 100 meters. The 24 hours at lemans is much longer than a drag race.. at under 13 seconds .. but they are both races as well.. and taking your attention away from the road is just as dangerous in both, just as it is in cycling, if races.. no mater the length were not dangerous.. helmets would not be required. 
in fact in longer races.. the riders are often more spread out, making mistakes less costly. 
And 
If you get the basics correct which you can do online looking at frame geo and taking accurate measurements you can take any bike to any shop and dial in your fit.. for the same fee they would charge to dial in one of their own sub $1,000 bikes.
What I said of the bike shops is true, at that price point most shops merely fit you for standover. 
Competitive gear did just that on my wifes, and my gary fisher's, ar adams did that on my schwinn fastback , john adams did that on my super sport, and my wifes specialized crossroads. All these bikes of my wifes and mine, you can see most of them in the touring forums. in fact bikes purchased from bikes direct are in the minority in my house. So speaking of me as a BD fan is simply uninformed ignorance, as are most of your assertions.


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## PJ352 (Dec 5, 2007)

SimianSpeedster said:


> A triathalon of any length is in fact a race. just because it's a shorter doesn't magically turn it into something else.


Well yes, literally, a tri is obviously a race. But by its very nature participants are not racing in a pack. They are spread out, for the most part. Also, I've used downtube shifters for around 25 years and_ very _seldom found it necessary to 'look down' to shift. After the OP spent all of one afternoon they'd know where the shifters were. But judging from your posts, I can understand that it might take you _much_ longer.  



SimianSpeedster said:


> If you get the basics correct which you can do online looking at frame geo and taking accurate measurements *you can take any bike to any shop and dial in your fit*..


Really? Any bike? And miraculously 'dial in fit'. Speaks volumes re: your ignorance on bike geo and its effects on sizing and fit issues.

And to affirm my beliefs that you're a little slow on the uptake, you continue to patonize bike shops that use standover as a determining factor in bike sizing/ fit, then complain about their incompetence. Well DUH! I agree, and don't patronize those LBS's.



SimianSpeedster said:


> So speaking of me as a BD fan is simply uninformed ignorance, as are most of your assertions.


_I'm_ not speaking of you as a BD fan, _you_ are. I've read your numerous posts in their forum. If it walks like a duck and quacks like a duck, it's a good bet that it's a duck.


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## PJ352 (Dec 5, 2007)

California L33 said:


> I don't think it's a bad $499 bike, but remember the most expensive part of the bike- the frame. Groupos can be changed if you don't like them, so can wheels, but if you get a frame that isn't great then you pretty much have to chuck the bike rather than upgrade. Zoom in and look at the quality of the welds. It looks like a mountain bike frame. Now let the OP go down and look at the welds on a name brand bike at the LBS. He might not find cheaper (not with 105), but he will find better. That's why a two year old used bike purchased from a LBS might be a better choice. I don't think he'd be unhappy with the Corsa, but I do think he might be happier with something else, and he won't know until he looks.


+1. Top of the line components aren't going to help an ill fitting, sub par frame/ fork. So at face value a $499, 105 equipped bike gets high marks for perceived value, but long term maybe that $600 bike - or as California L33 suggests, a used purchase from an LBS, might be a better choice. Services that are offered by reputable shops add value, but because they are intangibles, are often overlooked - or their importance minimized.


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## MarvinK (Feb 12, 2002)

Don Duende said:


> Please do not go negative on us, Marvin. $499 for Shimano 105 is a screaming deal. No one I know buys a bike for the saddle, please.
> 
> Assembly requires attaching the front wheel with a skewer and attaching the handlebars to the stem. Even a noob can do that ...


Don: I didn't go negative, in fact I said it was a good deal. I did make a 'negative' comment about Walmart's total and complete lack of ability to assemble a bike--something that you reinforced with your 'noob' comment. Apparently even an experienced Walmart bike assembler can't do it right.

My guess on the Walmart bike is that the experience is hardly comparable to a bike coming from Competitive Cyclist. I mean--look at the picture and the assembly mistakes on a bike they set up FOR A PICTURE. If you plan on buying a 105-level bike from Walmart, you should plan on performing the following setup tasks:

- True wheels and adjust bearings
- Adjust headset
- Brake and Derailleur adjustments
- Install Pedals (use grease)
- Install seatpost (use grease)
- Install seat
- Pump tires
- Lube chain
- Do basic fit (saddle, handlebar, stem, etc.)

I might be forgetting a few other steps---but there are enough steps that most noobs would really be doing themselves a disservice to do it themselves. A bike shop is not going to charge $25 to 'fix' a Walmart bike... plan on $50-100 depending on the condition it arrives in. If you have a knowledgeable friend, I would lean more towards bribing them with alcohol instead.


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## MarvinK (Feb 12, 2002)

SimianSpeedster said:


> If you get the basics correct which you can do online looking at frame geo and taking accurate measurements you can take any bike to any shop and dial in your fit.. for the same fee they would charge to dial in one of their own sub $1,000 bikes. What I said of the bike shops is true, at that price point most shops merely fit you for standover.


Simian: I haven't seen that with the quality shops I've been to. Even with a <$500 bike, a good bike shop is going to adjust saddle and stem and sometimes more. Shops that just check standover make a better case for big box shops--but you should be expecting more from any good bike shop.

In any case, you should expect a seat to be installed properly at even a mediocre bike shop... which puts them head and shoulders above Walmart!


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## SimianSpeedster (Mar 13, 2008)

PJ352 said:


> Well yes, literally, a tri is obviously a race. But by its very nature participants are not racing in a pack. They are spread out, for the *most part*. <- Not always though? so there is a chance that distraction could lead to an issue?? as I asserted in my first post?? Imagine that
> Also, I've used downtube shifters for around 25 years and_ very _seldom found it necessary to 'look down' to shift. After the OP spent all of one afternoon they'd know where the shifters were. But judging from your posts, I can understand that it might take you _much_ longer.
> Funny implying I'm slow when you didn't know what a tri was until I educated you. Funny thing is .. people new to cycling often like to know what gear they are in .. a feature that the tiagra shifters have right on the levers.. so they neither glance down to shift or are tempted to look back at the cassette. aah the miracles of indexed shifting with an indicator
> 
> ...


 Why are you always in those forums?? A closet BD fan? Oh! I know a religious BD basher. I don't believe I've ever started a thread there,
I know I've started quite a few in commuting touring and ride reports, ah and one or two about restoring a 1976 raleigh sports. I see that you've never started a thread about actually riding your bikes. So using the logic that you just applied to me you must not actually ride. Be careful labeling a person based simply on where they post from time to time.


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## labmonkey526 (Aug 9, 2009)

xhale said:


> So I think I'm pretty much decide on getting the Corsa FA Lightweight from Walmart. I read up on them and it seems like it's the best bang for the buck. I heard that the medium bike size frame was 54cm. I'm 5'9" and wondering if I should get the large or the medium? Also do you have any suggestions on slip in bike pedals?


I see we have thread drift fight going on above so....back to the OP. 

+1 to California L33. I know you are probably feeling the allure of shimano 105 for $499, but man that crap can be switched out, upgraded, downgraded whatever, you better make damn sure the frame has good geometry for your body and the style of riding you are looking to do. Goto competetive cyclist or wrench science and use their fit calculator's to get started. 

Goto an LBS and see what they have leftover from 2009 or earlier or go with a used bike like you were originally thinking, in the end you are going to get way more bang for your buck. Good Luck.


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## willtsmith_nwi (Jul 25, 2006)

http://bikesdirect.com/products/motobecane/grand_record_x.htm 

$599. You can't beat bikes direct.


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## MarvinK (Feb 12, 2002)

Seriously... what crappy internet brand bike with Sora shifters retails for $1399? I think that alone speaks for Bikes Direct.


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## Starter (Jan 7, 2009)

California L33 said:


> I don't think it's a bad $499 bike, but remember the most expensive part of the bike- the frame. Groupos can be changed if you don't like them, so can wheels, but if you get a frame that isn't great then you pretty much have to chuck the bike rather than upgrade. Zoom in and look at the quality of the welds. It looks like a mountain bike frame. Now let the OP go down and look at the welds on a name brand bike at the LBS. He might not find cheaper (not with 105), but he will find better. That's why a two year old used bike purchased from a LBS might be a better choice. I don't think he'd be unhappy with the Corsa, but I do think he might be happier with something else, and he won't know until he looks.


*A.* The most expensive part of a bike is not always the frame. Take a CAAD9 for example- a terrific frame... And absolutely worthy of a Record 11 / Zipp build. In this case, the frame would be far cheaper than both the groupo and the wheels.

*B.* I'd bet dollars to pesos that the frame on the Walmart bike is fine. The welds don't look terrible, the manufacturer just didn't bother to grind them smooth and make them look road-frame pretty. It stands to reason that it's probably coming out of an Asian factory that makes alloy frames for many different brands. Look at Walmart's business model. They don't build or contract out designs for anything. They look for good deals on items, buy them in bulk, and sell them at a discount... I guarantee that very frame is probably being sold as a low-end model for a number of reputable bike brands... It's just gotten to a point where cheap alloy frames are so easy to produce that the vast majority of them are fine- maybe not great, like a CAAD or Spooky, but fine. That frame with 105 is perfect for the OP... The 105 is fantastic at that pricepoint. Hell, he could even get the frame stripped and either anodized or repainted, switch out a few pieces of kit, and have a sexy little rig.


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## willtsmith_nwi (Jul 25, 2006)

willtsmith_nwi said:


> http://bikesdirect.com/products/motobecane/grand_record_x.htm
> 
> $599. You can't beat bikes direct.


Tiagra. And my analysis of prices at BikeDirect.com and Pricepoint.com has led me to one conclusion. Bike companies make WAY bigger margins on their products than they would have you believe. These bikes sell for underneath wholesale for a similarly equipped bike store bike. 

If you're a real snob think of it this way. It's like a really inexpensive build kit that ships on a disposable frame. If that frame does break, get the one you wanted and you're still ahead of the price you would have gotten at Trek, Specialized or Giant.


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## PJ352 (Dec 5, 2007)

willtsmith_nwi said:


> Tiagra. *And my analysis of prices *at BikeDirect.com and Pricepoint.com has led me to one conclusion. Bike companies make WAY bigger margins on their products than they would have you believe. These bikes sell for underneath wholesale for a similarly equipped bike store bike.
> 
> If you're a real snob think of it this way. It's like a really inexpensive build kit that ships on a disposable frame. If that frame does break, get the one you wanted and you're still ahead of the price you would have gotten at Trek, Specialized or Giant.


Maybe your analysis of prices should broaden to include things like sizing and fit assistance, then test rides, final assembly/ tuning. Then post purchase services like tune ups, and warranty assistance (if needed). 

And by fit assistance I'm not talking about an email or two back and forth with a BD rep asking height and inseam. Guess wrong and it's the buyers responsibility to ship the bike back. Even if sizing is guessed right, the bike still has to be assembled, tuned and fitted at a LBS (even BD recommends this) - all hidden costs.

BTW, the Specialized Allez Elite_ retails _for $1300, is equipped with 105 and the frame quality is light years ahead of the alu BD bikes.


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## bikesdirect (Sep 9, 2006)

PJ352 said:


> Maybe your analysis of prices should broaden to include things like sizing and fit assistance, then test rides, final assembly/ tuning. Then post purchase services like tune ups, and warranty assistance (if needed).
> 
> And by fit assistance I'm not talking about an email or two back and forth with a BD rep asking height and inseam. Guess wrong and it's the buyers responsibility to ship the bike back. Even if sizing is guessed right, the bike still has to be assembled, tuned and fitted at a LBS (even BD recommends this) - all hidden costs.
> 
> BTW, the Specialized Allez Elite_ retails _for $1300, is equipped with 105 and the frame quality is light years ahead of the alu BD bikes.



Each buyer is different
Some need fit assitance; some do not
Some need assembly and tune-up help; some do not
Some like getting tunesups at dealers; some do not

It is something like posters
Some know what they are talking about some do not.
Some post that the frame is the most expensive part on the bike; Some Know Better.
Some think an aluminum frame made in China by Kinesis or Sunrise and decaled with a brand name they like is automatically great quality and think an aluminum frame made in Taiwan by Kinesis or Sunrise and decaled with a brand name they do not like is automatically lowquality; Some Know Better.


But in my opinion is: telling someone they can not figure out how to size themselves and/or tune their own bike is EXACTLY the same as calling them Stupid.

Three sources of bikes mentioned here: LBS, mass-merchants, and on-line dealers -- all have a very useful place in the market {and I would add sporting goods stores also fill an important niche for cyclists}

I like choices


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## bikesdirect (Sep 9, 2006)

willtsmith_nwi said:


> http://bikesdirect.com/products/motobecane/grand_record_x.htm
> 
> $599. You can't beat bikes direct.



Thanks for the suggestion; but this bike has sold out
We expect more in about 10 days from now; they will sell out before we can get more

The Grand Record is double-butted aluminum frame and built in Taiwan with hand-built wheels: most bikes at this price are straight AL tubes and made in China with machine built wheels - so we have a hard time keeping this bike in stock: as some buyers see the difference


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## Jim311 (Sep 18, 2009)

My BD Mercier has gotten me into road riding. Paying more than a few hundred to get into a sport I wasn't sure I was going to like seemed absurd to me. I think I actually got MORE than I paid for. A decent quality steel singlespeed that didn't break the bank. Anything anywhere near that quality from one of the major brands could have cost nearly twice what I paid. If you don't need LBS warranty work, can do fitting yourself, and don't care about service or tuneups, it's the way to go. The shops here have questionable "service" anyway. I'd rather do it myself and take 30 minutes than leave my bike at the shop for a couple of days.


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## PJ352 (Dec 5, 2007)

bikesdirect said:


> *Each buyer is different*
> Some need fit assitance; some do not
> Some need assembly and tune-up help; some do not
> Some like getting tunesups at dealers; some do not
> ...


Well, in a roundabout way you called me stupid, but I know better.  

Since the frameset is the heart of the bike, with geo dictating fit, handling and, to some extent ride, it _should_ be the most expensive part of the bike, but we know that doesn't hold true with the majority of BD's bikes, no matter their origin. 

And until you said "in my opinion" you were posting yours as fact, but they _are_ your opinions. 

You're right that "some buyers" need the services provided by LBS's and some do not, but judging from posts here on RBR I'm confident the majority do. 

But we do agree on one thing. Choices are good. And I'l credit BD with offering some steel frames in their lineup. I hope others follow suite.


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## MarvinK (Feb 12, 2002)

Come on, Bikes Direct... admit the $1399 MSRP for that bike is just totally ridiculous. I mean, it is a cheap aluminum frame and has Sora shifters. It has good specs for $599... or even $750... but even pricier brands would embarass that bike at $1399.


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## Peanya (Jun 12, 2008)

MarvinK said:


> Come on, Bikes Direct... admit the $1399 MSRP for that bike is just totally ridiculous. I mean, it is a cheap aluminum frame and has Sora shifters. It has good specs for $599... or even $750... but even pricier brands would embarass that bike at $1399.


I wouldn't call those MSRP's ridiculous, but they are a little stretched. But hey, that's retail for you. I do wonder if there would be less BD bashing if the prices were listed more accurately (along with more comparable components, that is). Yes, you can always argue fit, but I do agree that some people care more about the components that go with the price tag than fit. As long as the geomety is comparable, most people can take those to a LBS or pro fitter and get a good fit. I won't, however, comment on ride quality withouth personal experience. 
Sorry to thread hijack, but it makes me laugh how a site like Competitve Cyclist is considered just fine, whereas BD isn't. Is it the brands and the fit calculator?


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## Jim311 (Sep 18, 2009)

MarvinK said:


> Come on, Bikes Direct... admit the $1399 MSRP for that bike is just totally ridiculous. I mean, it is a cheap aluminum frame and has Sora shifters. It has good specs for $599... or even $750... but even pricier brands would embarass that bike at $1399.



Who pays attention to MSRP anyway, especially in this situation?


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## California L33 (Jan 20, 2006)

Starter said:


> *A.* The most expensive part of a bike is not always the frame. Take a CAAD9 for example- a terrific frame... And absolutely worthy of a Record 11 / Zipp build. In this case, the frame would be far cheaper than both the groupo and the wheels.
> 
> *B.* I'd bet dollars to pesos that the frame on the Walmart bike is fine. The welds don't look terrible, the manufacturer just didn't bother to grind them smooth and make them look road-frame pretty. It stands to reason that it's probably coming out of an Asian factory that makes alloy frames for many different brands. Look at Walmart's business model. They don't build or contract out designs for anything. They look for good deals on items, buy them in bulk, and sell them at a discount... I guarantee that very frame is probably being sold as a low-end model for a number of reputable bike brands... It's just gotten to a point where cheap alloy frames are so easy to produce that the vast majority of them are fine- maybe not great, like a CAAD or Spooky, but fine. That frame with 105 is perfect for the OP... The 105 is fantastic at that pricepoint. Hell, he could even get the frame stripped and either anodized or repainted, switch out a few pieces of kit, and have a sexy little rig.


I guess I should clarify. Even if you can find a bike so cheap that the frame isn't the most expensive part, it's the only part not worth changing. If you love everything about your bike but the wheels, it's usually worth it to change wheels, or whatever else is bothering you. If you love everything about your bike but the noodly or heavy frame, you're usually better off just buying another bike than buying a frame and transferring everything, at least if you're paying someone to do it. 

I saw a documentary on bike frame buidling a few weeks back, both CF and aluminum. A lot of it is still done by hand, both low end and high end. It was a little surprising seeing a factory full of workers with frame jigs and pipes welding them together, so even if you do get good deals on frames (I know Nash Bar sells an aluminum frame retail for $75), the low end may see some upward price pressure as the cost of labor goes up in Asia.


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## GerryR (Sep 3, 2008)

Jim311 said:


> Who pays attention to MSRP anyway, especially in this situation?


I discovered that it MSRP does mean something when you discover that your local shop is pricing bikes at 20-25% OVER MSRP, while the next closest Specialized dealer is pricing the same bike at about 15% under. On a $2,000 bike that's about a $700 difference for a 280 mile round trip. I made the round trip, but ended up buying a different brand entirely.


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## Starter (Jan 7, 2009)

California L33 said:


> I guess I should clarify. Even if you can find a bike so cheap that the frame isn't the most expensive part, it's the only part not worth changing. If you love everything about your bike but the wheels, it's usually worth it to change wheels, or whatever else is bothering you. If you love everything about your bike but the noodly or heavy frame, you're usually better off just buying another bike than buying a frame and transferring everything, at least if you're paying someone to do it.
> 
> I saw a documentary on bike frame buidling a few weeks back, both CF and aluminum. A lot of it is still done by hand, both low end and high end. It was a little surprising seeing a factory full of workers with frame jigs and pipes welding them together, so even if you do get good deals on frames (I know Nash Bar sells an aluminum frame retail for $75), the low end may see some upward price pressure as the cost of labor goes up in Asia.


I don't see that frame being noodly, probably stiff and harsh as hell... But I bet you're right about it being pretty damn heavy. 

My point about the quality probably being fine is derived from the fact that road bike frames, high or low end, are still specialty products. So it's going to be cheaper to source one from a factory who already does them, rather than have someone else retool. And right now, even the cheapest low-end alloy frames coming out of Asia are pretty good. Something that Performance/Nashbar sells for 75 bucks in 2010 would have been a mid-level frame not too long ago. It stands to reason that Walmart went through one of these factories as well- ipso facto, the frame is fine... Certainly good enough the OP. 

Hell, even if by some chance the Walmart frame is some wacky horror show concocted by a factory that usually makes plumbing fixtures, the OP could just buy that $75 Nashbar bike, pay $59 for a Performance Bike pro build, and walk away with a proven alloy frame, 105 groupo, ITM kit, and Shimano wheels for $633. Sell the Walmart frame for $35 on Craigslist to some fixie dude, and end up having spent $598. Can't beat that deal with a stick.


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## willtsmith_nwi (Jul 25, 2006)

PJ352 said:


> +1. Top of the line components aren't going to help an ill fitting, sub par frame/ fork. So at face value a $499, 105 equipped bike gets high marks for perceived value, but long term maybe that $600 bike - or as California L33 suggests, a used purchase from an LBS, might be a better choice. Services that are offered by reputable shops add value, but because they are intangibles, are often overlooked - or their importance minimized.


The frame is the bike, but when it ships with such great components, you can just buy a new frame and put those great components on it. In the end frame fit is somewhat of a crap shoot anyway. Unless you've been on a bike and REALLY know what you want, you probably aren't going to get it right. And even then, changes stems and bars can correct a lot of issues so long as you're in the same ballpark.

Personally, I've come to the conclusion that Trek et al, have much larger margins on bikes than they lead on. A competitive high end bike from a "quality" bike company costs about $1000 more than on BikesDirect.com. 

So just buy the damn thing and switch out the frame if you need to. Don't feel bad for the LBS as most of them already realize that they are a repair shop that sells bicycles instead of the other way around.

At BikesDirect.com prices, you could easily afford to buy a bike than pay the LBS $150 to assemble and do a 90 day tune up.


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## California L33 (Jan 20, 2006)

Starter said:


> I don't see that frame being noodly, probably stiff and harsh as hell... But I bet you're right about it being pretty damn heavy.
> 
> My point about the quality probably being fine is derived from the fact that road bike frames, high or low end, are still specialty products. So it's going to be cheaper to source one from a factory who already does them, rather than have someone else retool. And right now, even the cheapest low-end alloy frames coming out of Asia are pretty good. Something that Performance/Nashbar sells for 75 bucks in 2010 would have been a mid-level frame not too long ago. It stands to reason that Walmart went through one of these factories as well- ipso facto, the frame is fine... Certainly good enough the OP.
> 
> Hell, even if by some chance the Walmart frame is some wacky horror show concocted by a factory that usually makes plumbing fixtures, the OP could just buy that $75 Nashbar bike, pay $59 for a Performance Bike pro build, and walk away with a proven alloy frame, 105 groupo, ITM kit, and Shimano wheels for $633. Sell the Walmart frame for $35 on Craigslist to some fixie dude, and end up having spent $598. Can't beat that deal with a stick.


Yes, a bike factory will likely be making Walmart bikes. But, the main idea behind a price point bike is to make the frame as inexpensively as possible- straight even wall thickness tubing, simple jigs, rough welds, no wind tunnel testing, no engineering to speak of. I doubt the frame will disintegrate under the rider, but it will be made like a Schwinn or Huffy frame from the '70s, using slightly newer materials. 

I guess theoretically, worst case, the OP could do what you suggest. It would be a PIA, though, and it's probably better to just start out with something he knows he'll like and ride. 

And for the record, I have been on frames that was both heavy and noodly. (If you build a bike from heavy tubes, but don't engineer the BB/chain stay areas correctly, it's not difficult to do.)


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## PJ352 (Dec 5, 2007)

willtsmith_nwi said:


> The frame is the bike, but when it ships with such great components, you can just buy a new frame and put those great components on it. In the end frame fit is somewhat of a crap shoot anyway. *Unless you've been on a bike and REALLY know what you want, you probably aren't going to get it right. And even then, changes stems and bars can correct a lot of issues so long as you're in the same ballpark.*
> 
> Personally, I've come to the conclusion that Trek et al, have much larger margins on bikes than they lead on. A competitive high end bike from a "quality" bike company costs about $1000 more than on BikesDirect.com.
> 
> ...


We have slightly differing philosophies, but I think a key difference is that I credit reputable LBS's with knowledgable fitters more than you. While I think the bolded statement is true, the odds of getting 'in the ballpark' are better the more knowledge one has. So if the buyer hasn't _been on a bike and REALLY know what they want,_ IMO they're better served at their LBS as opposed to picking a frame size from a pull down window (and based on standover clearance).


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## bikesdirect (Sep 9, 2006)

PJ352 said:


> Since the frameset is the heart of the bike, with geo dictating fit, handling and, to some extent ride, it _should_ be the most expensive part of the bike, but we know that doesn't hold true with the majority of BD's bikes, no matter their origin.
> 
> .


You have or like passing on bad information on oem costs 
Most bikes have frames that are the most expensive item on the bike
AND BD bikes generally have more expensive frames than most other brands as a higher percentage of BD bikes use frames made in Taiwan vs China 


on the vast majority of bikes: the frame costs less than the wheels
on many the frame is less than the crank

note - in this case I am not saying 'in my opinion'
there is a reason for that


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## PJ352 (Dec 5, 2007)

bikesdirect said:


> You have or like passing on bad information on oem costs
> Most bikes have frames that are the most expensive item on the bike
> AND BD bikes generally have more expensive frames than most other brands as a higher percentage of BD bikes use frames made in Taiwan vs China
> 
> ...


I didn't either, and there's a reason for that.


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## Peanya (Jun 12, 2008)

bikesdirect said:


> AND BD bikes generally have more expensive frames than most other brands as a higher percentage of BD bikes use frames made in Taiwan vs China


This I can't understand. I can't see how Chinese frames would actually cost less than Taiwan. Most people assume (and for the most part, correctly) that if it's from China, then the quality is lower than if made anywhere elese on the planet. 
I could give multiple examples of where this is not the case. One: Abit motherboards, their plant was in China, and it was the most advanced, and used highest quality parts, plus 100% of them were tested. Alas, that cost too much, and they didn't have the marketing to pay for that. 
What you should be saying: My bikes are a tremendous value, when you look at what you get compared to the other bikes available on the market. The geometries available on these are the same and similar to just about all the other bikes out there. While the components are the exact same, I do stand behind what I sell as a quality product.
That way, no one can argue what you've said!


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## willtsmith_nwi (Jul 25, 2006)

PJ352 said:


> We have slightly differing philosophies, but I think a key difference is that I credit reputable LBS's with knowledgable fitters more than you. While I think the bolded statement is true, the odds of getting 'in the ballpark' are better the more knowledge one has. So if the buyer hasn't _been on a bike and REALLY know what they want,_ IMO they're better served at their LBS as opposed to picking a frame size from a pull down window (and based on standover clearance).


If you know what effective top tube size you are comfortable with this will almost completely determine the frame size you need. Unfortunately, most LBS will pick a frame based on inseam and ... riding other frames in the shop besides the one you wanted. Because bike stores tend not to stock super expensive bicycles.

From that point on the LBS and the online retailer is on equal footing. Pro fits ARE NOT FREE. It's a value added service. Most fitters will perform the service for any bike, not just the ones they sell. However with a little know how, you can do the job yourself. I could see how a bike shop would not be willing to swap out stems that didn't come from their shop.

But ... for the cost difference you're talking about a LOT of value added that can be purchased in fitting, clothing, tools ... whatever. For you newbies, just realize that you're taking on some responsibilities with mail order. For us wrenches, we've been doing this stuff for ourselves for quite a while so we really don't need those services.


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## MarvinK (Feb 12, 2002)

I can't remember the last bike shop bike I bought that didn't include free basic fitting--including swapping out bars & stem, if necessary. If you're buying from a shop that doesn't make sure you fit properly, you might as well be buying online.

I agree some internet bikes are a good value for experienced riders who know basic maintenance... but for most beginners, they are less likely to enjoy a poorly-fitting bike and/or spend a lot more money over the first year on fitting, parts to go with the fitting and regular maintenance. The owner of one of the local shops says he loves Bikes Direct bikes... because he usually makes more off of one of their cheap bikes than one of his own!


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## cyko (Feb 6, 2010)

I have the Corsa FA in my stable and it's an outstanding value. The med is 54cm, and the frame is fine, as are the components. I have a K2 Enemy cyclocross with equivalent components and frame (53cm), same weight of under 22 lbs, cost $699 new and was the best bargain on a bike I've ever had until the Corsa. I did a couple hours of tune up and fitting which anybody with a book or even internet access could do, slapped on 105 pedals, and haven't stopped smiling. I highly recommend it for discriminating riders that don't race.


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## Ken_Birchall (Apr 21, 2004)

Don Duende said:


> Check out this bike from Walmart. It has very good components. An aluminum frame that should hold up to racing. Then you can add on aerobars, later. And it fits your budget. Normally, I would not recommend Walmart but this item is an anomaly.
> 
> http://www.walmart.com/catalog/product.do?product_id=5751042&findingMethod=rr#ProductDetail


I could write something about this but Steve Edwards said it first http://steve-edwards.blogspot.com/2007/08/walmart-sells-bikes-rant-warning.html

@xhale

become friends with your friendly LBS explain your situation and that you're looking new or used. I saw a kickass used Lemond for $900 Cdn last week, you can always finagle a deal down from the asking price on a used bike.

The Allez recommended above is a great starter bike, the motobecane has a number of reviews on here you can review as well. I would definitely stress though that if you start your search now you may luck out and find something great used, if you want to use something like Craigslist or a local Ebay seller just make the price conditional on an LBS of your choice swearing as to its fitness for use because the last thing you want to do is drop $600 on something with irreparable damage to it or that is nothing like what you've been lead to believe you're buying.


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## Trek2.3 (Sep 13, 2009)

They are out there. Here are 2 -- a double and a triple, same price.

http://penncycle.com/product/08-trek-1.5-double-19739.htm

Remember Trek bikes CAN be shipped to another Trek dealer.


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## 2ndGen (Oct 10, 2008)

xhale said:


> I know my price range might be on the cheaper side but I'm looking for some good bikes for around $600. I'm very new to the biking thing and I don't know very much about brands or a good price, so I'm just looking for a right direction. I plan on doing some small triathlons and general biking with friends. I wouldn't mind building a kit... are those cheaper? What bike would you recommend? Thanks


Can't beat the 2010 Trek 1.1 for that money...only $659.99 MSRP. 
(figure $599. with a 10% off sale)

Consistently rated as the best entry level road bike by major cycling magazines. 

https://brickwell.com/product/10-trek-1.1-59791-1.htm

https://www.***************/wp-content/uploads/2009/11/trek-1-1-wsd-womens-2010-road-bike.jpg


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## Solearas (Nov 6, 2009)

Looks like a girls bike no?


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## ccd1977 (Apr 30, 2010)

*I doubt that...*



PJ352 said:


> Maybe your analysis of prices should broaden to include things like sizing and fit assistance, then test rides, final assembly/ tuning. Then post purchase services like tune ups, and warranty assistance (if needed).
> 
> And by fit assistance I'm not talking about an email or two back and forth with a BD rep asking height and inseam. Guess wrong and it's the buyers responsibility to ship the bike back. Even if sizing is guessed right, the bike still has to be assembled, tuned and fitted at a LBS (even BD recommends this) - all hidden costs.
> 
> BTW, the Specialized Allez Elite_ retails _for $1300, is equipped with 105 and the frame quality is light years ahead of the alu BD bikes.



Most bikes direct frames are straight Fuji or Raleigh. Just look at the Fuji newest 1.0 and the Vent Nior from BD. Unless you are saying Fuji and Raleigh are garbage. Then again, Trek and specialized all come out of the same Tiawan factory.


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## ccd1977 (Apr 30, 2010)

*Those prices are somewhat accurate...*



Peanya said:


> I wouldn't call those MSRP's ridiculous, but they are a little stretched. But hey, that's retail for you. I do wonder if there would be less BD bashing if the prices were listed more accurately (along with more comparable components, that is). Yes, you can always argue fit, but I do agree that some people care more about the components that go with the price tag than fit. As long as the geomety is comparable, most people can take those to a LBS or pro fitter and get a good fit. I won't, however, comment on ride quality withouth personal experience.
> Sorry to thread hijack, but it makes me laugh how a site like Competitve Cyclist is considered just fine, whereas BD isn't. Is it the brands and the fit calculator?



If you notice on the BD information pages, they will say compared to 'Trek 1.1" etc.. Compare them. You will see those outrageous prices at your LBS. Not a BD LBS but others.


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## PlatyPius (Feb 1, 2009)

ccd1977 said:


> If you notice on the BD information pages, they will say compared to 'Trek 1.1" etc.. Compare them. You will see those outrageous prices at your LBS. Not a BD LBS but others.


While I admit I tried to steer you toward a good BD bike, let's not be calling my prices "outrageous", eh? I charge in the range that the bike company tells me I can charge. And those inexpensive bikes that BD sells? Most of them are 2-3 year old Fuji models. So, comparing apples to apples, the price would end up about the same if you were to buy a 2-3 year old new bike at a bike shop.

A lot of BD's bikes are good deals. Some aren't.

As for "compare to Trek 1.1", yeah....Treks are a little over-priced. Gotta pay the Lance Tax. But compare the components individually, and I'll bet some of the components on the BD bike are from a lower line or are slightly older versions. For that matter, as much as I dislike Trek, I still don't consider a Fuji to be the equal of a Trek. And BD bikes are mainly Fujis. Good for people on a budget, but not what I would consider a great bike.


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## ccd1977 (Apr 30, 2010)

I hear so much about Sora is garbage and you must go at least Tiagra, etc.. I am a bigger noob than anyone here and for $600-$700 I do want the best bike for the dollar but if Sora is garbage, then what is a noob to do? I am not a pro athlete. One day I would like to do a century. Will that ever happen? I don't know but one thing for sure, I am not confident in buying Sora, 2300 or even Tiagra from what I am hearing from everyone in LBS. What is the truth on this? 

I guy told me today that Sora would be fine for me because they are heavier and can take a beating while the Trek dude tells me that I must start off with the Trek 2.1 or I am wasting my money. Confuse? No Fuji sucs? Sigh. I am getting to a point where I am going to buy a Gavin bike because I don't want to waste money.


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## PlatyPius (Feb 1, 2009)

Tiagra is perfectly fine.
As for Sora, I have a bike with Sora on it. It isn't exciting by any stretch of the imagination, but it's adequate.

Fuji doesn't suck (for the most part), but I don't think they're great, either. However, you were looking in a particular price-point, which is why I was steering you toward BD bikes. The one I thought you had decided on is made by Kinesis, and is basically the same design as a 2006-ish Raleigh.

Has your price-point changed?


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## 2ndGen (Oct 10, 2008)

ccd1977 said:


> I hear so much about Sora is garbage and you must go at least Tiagra, etc.. I am a bigger noob than anyone here and for $600-$700 I do want the best bike for the dollar but if Sora is garbage, then what is a noob to do? I am not a pro athlete. One day I would like to do a century. Will that ever happen? I don't know but one thing for sure, I am not confident in buying Sora, 2300 or even Tiagra from what I am hearing from everyone in LBS. What is the truth on this?
> 
> I guy told me today that Sora would be fine for me because they are heavier and can take a beating while the Trek dude tells me that I must start off with the Trek 2.1 or I am wasting my money. Confuse? No Fuji sucs? Sigh. I am getting to a point where I am going to buy a Gavin bike because I don't want to waste money.


Sora is fine for just starting out. 
Do a search and you'll find riders here with thousands of miles on Sora gear. 
When your skills/riding style demand more from your drivetrain, then you upgrade. 
I was spooked by all the Sora talk myself, but 1st hand experience has taught me
that if you keep it clean and lubed, it'll serve you well and be pretty much trouble 
free for a long time. Like anything pretty much. 

As for starting off with a 2.X bike?
Great bike, but is it necessary? 
That depends where you're at with your skills. 
105 Group is way better than Sora. 
But will you get the benefit out of it?
Only you know.



Having said that, I bought a Trek 1.5, rode it, learned on it, figured out what I liked,
then went on to upgrade to something better. But I didn't have to change anything
on that bike except the stock pedals for the time it took me to learn what I wanted
in a bike for me. 

If I would've started out with a 2.X Series bike, I still would've sold it anyway. 
And, my entry level fee would've been over a thousand dolllars vs the $725. I spent. 

I'm not one for buying bikes with the priority on groupsets. 
Fit is far more important. Then, "what" you need. 
Groupsets can always be upgraded as needed.
But a great frame will be the foundation for your bike. 

A Trek 1.X Series bike is a great bike to start out period. 
So sayeth me, the amateur who's ridden one, so sayeth the experts. 
But only if it fits you.


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## MarvinK (Feb 12, 2002)

Most riders looking for a $600 road bike are new riders--who would greatly benefit from a local shop taking the time to make sure the bike fits properly and include a warranty to take care of basic maintenance the first year. I'd definitely recommend Sora on a bike that fits and is well adjusted than a $600 bike with some Tiagra that goes unadjusted when cables stretch or isn't comfortable because they needed a steeper stem or something.


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## Peanya (Jun 12, 2008)

How come i see so many old threads being bumped up for no good reason lately??


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## SystemShock (Jun 14, 2008)

Peanya said:


> How come i see so many old threads being bumped up for no good reason lately??


Because you touch yourself at night.
.


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## ccd1977 (Apr 30, 2010)

It may soon be changing as I am able to save $50 a month. I currently have $670 and may be getting another job soon. That is not definite though.


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## ccd1977 (Apr 30, 2010)

*And your post is?*



Peanya said:


> How come i see so many old threads being bumped up for no good reason lately??


Funny thing. Instead of letting the post expire itself, you bump it up with another post. Classic.


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## MSDos5 (Jun 3, 2010)

*My bike*

havn't used My bike long but it seems pretty good


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