# Why the campy hate



## pulser955 (Apr 18, 2009)

Let me start off by saying I have been in the industry for over 10 years. And I have worked in lots of shops. Most of the Mechanics I have worked with hate campy. I don't get it. The last 2 shops I worked in are so anti campy they wont carry any campy parts. Not even brake pads. I have ridden campy for about 5 years now and I don't know if I could go back to Shimano.


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## natedg200202 (Sep 2, 2008)

Ignorance? Too lazy to learn about a new line of parts? I'm not sure, but the general resistance to Campy from most bicycle shops is enough for me to turn to mail order and to learn to assemble and maintain my bike myself. 

Good riddance - I get better parts at a lower price and I'm self reliant in fixing my own bike, which is handy and saves me more money.


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## Opus51569 (Jul 21, 2009)

I do find it interesting how polarizing some things can be when it comes to bikes...

Campy v. Shimano
Aluminum v. Carbon v. Titanium v. Steel
Double v. Triple (though I haven't heard a lot of triple love around as of late)

Why not live and let live...or ride and let ride...life's too short.


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## orange_julius (Jan 24, 2003)

pulser955 said:


> Let me start off by saying I have been in the industry for over 10 years. And I have worked in lots of shops. Most of the Mechanics I have worked with hate campy. I don't get it. The last 2 shops I worked in are so anti campy they wont carry any campy parts. Not even brake pads. I have ridden campy for about 5 years now and I don't know if I could go back to Shimano.


Simple economics? Campagnolo's market share is very small these days, except in the high-end arena. 

As a shop owner, you have a finite amount of shelf space, and limited funds. And you have to worry about turnaround. 

As a mechanic, it's hard to learn about something you neither use nor even encounter regularly. 

In the Boston area where I live, the higher-end shops all know how to deal with Campagnolo, but even then I don't think they stock much Campagnolo parts beyond brake pads, cables, and cassettes. I don't think any of them display entire Campagnolo groupsets on their shelves. 

Let's face it, except for the high-end market, most bikes are built and sold as complete bikes. And Campag has very small market share in OEM parts. So if you are an LBS and your median sale price is in the $1000-1500 bike range, what are the chances that any of them is Campag?


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## R.Rice (Aug 23, 2004)

I have a few shops here locally that are owned by guys who ride campy and stock their parts.Yet,I don't understand how a bike "mechanic" who rarely encounters Campy parts should have any problems with it.It is just as easy for me to do all of the work on my Campy drivetrain as it was with any Shimano stuff I have had in the past.


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## orange_julius (Jan 24, 2003)

R.Rice said:


> I have a few shops here locally that are owned by guys who ride campy and stock their parts.Yet,I don't understand how a bike "mechanic" who rarely encounters Campy parts should have any problems with it.It is just as easy for me to do all of the work on my Campy drivetrain as it was with any Shimano stuff I have had in the past.


If you have never worked on Campag parts before, how would you know which limit screw is for which? You'd have to look it up. And bingo, do you think that most people like having to look things up in order to get things done? 

And that is juts for something very elementary. Imagine the effort needed to learn how to solve non-elementary tasks such as figuring out how to route derailleur cables, install a BB, or troubleshoot shifting problems.


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## R.Rice (Aug 23, 2004)

orange_julius said:


> If you have never worked on Campag parts before, how would you know which limit screw is for which? You'd have to look it up. And bingo, do you think that most people like having to look things up in order to get things done?
> 
> And that is juts for something very elementary. Imagine the effort needed to learn how to solve non-elementary tasks such as figuring out how to route derailleur cables, install a BB, or troubleshoot shifting problems.


I guess I must just have good luck because I have done all the work on my drivetrain my self and have had no issues and it shifts great.(I like to tinker with cars/trucks and turn a wrench for a living) but I looked at the parts and figured it out myself when I first assembled this bike 2 years ago and it all seemed pretty obvious to me.Maybe since Campy doesn't put their b-set crew right out in the open like Shimano it annoys them?

I just changed my UT BB bearings out last week and it was the easiest BB job I have ever done.


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## PlatyPius (Feb 1, 2009)

My shop:
#1 Campagnolo
#2 SRAM
#3 Shimano

(I hate Shimano.)


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## pulser955 (Apr 18, 2009)

I find the whole thing kind of funny. My best friend is a shop manager at one of our local shops. And one of his mechanics hates campy. Really hates it. I don't know why. So we have an ongoing battle over it every time I stop buy. No one works on my bikes so its no problem for me. But he gets so twisted out of shape when I talk up campy. I'm thinking about getting 11sp just becasue I know he will go crazy.


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## orange_julius (Jan 24, 2003)

R.Rice said:


> I guess I must just have good luck because I have done all the work on my drivetrain my self and have had no issues and it shifts great.(I like to tinker with cars/trucks and turn a wrench for a living) but I looked at the parts and figured it out myself when I first assembled this bike 2 years ago and it all seemed pretty obvious to me.Maybe since Campy doesn't put their b-set crew right out in the open like Shimano it annoys them?
> 
> I just changed my UT BB bearings out last week and it was the easiest BB job I have ever done.


Yes, but I thought that this thread is about why many shops dislike dealing with Campagnolo, not whether Campagnolo is the best out there. If the latter were the question, then yes, it is the best :-D. 

Similarly, most IT support people do not like having to deal with Mac. Most of the time they deal with PCs so they know the tricks inside out. So they make their money mostly on fixing PCs, so I can't blame them for not wanting to learn nor deal with Macs. 

I think one needs to look at this from the perspective of the service provider or seller, who wants to maximize how much money they make in a given amount of time for a given amount of effort.


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## pulser955 (Apr 18, 2009)

orange_julius said:


> Yes, but I thought that this thread is about why many shops dislike dealing with Campagnolo, not whether Campagnolo is the best out there. If the latter were the question, then yes, it is the best :-D.
> 
> Similarly, most IT support people do not like having to deal with Mac. Most of the time they deal with PCs so they know the tricks inside out. So they make their money mostly on fixing PCs, so I can't blame them for not wanting to learn nor deal with Macs.
> 
> I think one needs to look at this from the perspective of the service provider or seller, who wants to maximize how much money they make in a given amount of time for a given amount of effort.



All true its way easier to just replace a shifter then to rebuild it. I usually rate bike techs I work with based on there ability to actually fix things. Any one can slap new parts on a bike. It takes real skill and know how to rebuild them. I think Campy scares allot of guys off they are afraid of doing that kind of thing.


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## fabsroman (Jul 14, 2006)

orange_julius said:


> If you have never worked on Campag parts before, how would you know which limit screw is for which? You'd have to look it up. And bingo, do you think that most people like having to look things up in order to get things done?
> 
> And that is juts for something very elementary. Imagine the effort needed to learn how to solve non-elementary tasks such as figuring out how to route derailleur cables, install a BB, or troubleshoot shifting problems.


Half the time I forget which limit screw is for the high or low gear, so you know what I do, I shift the derailleur as far as it will go one way or the other and then see which limit screw is close to touching the stop on the derailleur. My Lord, we aren't talking about rocket science here. The last time I worked in a shop was in 1985. Until 2006, I had only ridden a 1985 bike with Super Record and down tube friction shifters. In 2006 I bought a new frame and a full Campy Record groupo and the only thing I really had to look up was how to install the cables in the brifters and how to adjust the shifting of the rear derailleur to make the index shifting smooth. Other than that, I only had to refer to the manual for torque settings here and there.

Seriously, let's not make bike building and bike maintenance look as hard as car repair and car maintenance.

With that said, I haven't taken a bike to a shop for work since 2006, and even then it was only because I didn't have the tools to install a headset. They botched that job up (i.e., didn't align the Chris King headset cups so the names matched) and scratched my fork, so I spent the $400 for headset tools and that will be the last time I visit a shop for them to do work on my bikes. Not to mention the driving there was a PITA and the labor fee wasn't fun either.


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## Cruisinscoot (Feb 21, 2010)

My shop is in the Bianchi camp. I got an Infinito equipped with the Athena Group. Even though they are Campy fans, they only sell OEM Campagnolo equipped bikes like mine which as far as I know was the first one for them.

The shop owner clearly had no previous experience setting up a Campagnolo Athena group. His first attempt was atrocious with regards to cable routing. His second attempt was still clearly wrong. I then decided to do it over again myself using published pictures and the Campagnolo instruction manual that came with my bike for reference.

So here is my take on this… 

Even shops that like Campy don’t necessarily possess the skills or experience to work on it and the inclination to read setup manuals to learn about what they don’t know.


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## killsoft (Oct 17, 2005)

fabsroman said:


> ... so I spent the $400 for headset tools and that will be the last time I visit a shop for them to do work on my bikes. Not to mention the driving there was a PITA and the labor fee wasn't fun either.


Fabs, based solely on this post, and your sig, I like your style.

KS


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## fabsroman (Jul 14, 2006)

killsoft said:


> Fabs, based solely on this post, and your sig, I like your style.
> 
> KS


Yep, I don't let anybody work on my guns or bows either. For the most part, I don't let anybody work on my cars either unless it is body work related, tire replacement, a wheel alignment, or I really screw something up. With that said, I learned the hard way for $230 on how to do a horizontal fuel filter change on my F350, which is to have less than 1/4 tank of diesel in it and to back the truck up onto ramps so the fuel stays away from the fuel pickup. I had just filled up with diesel when the water separator light came on and after I got the fuel filter cap off, 39 gallons of diesel started pouring down the fuel line. So, I slammed the cap back on and in the process cross threaded it so bad that I could not get it back off with hand tools and I did not want to risk having 39 gallons of diesel in my driveway after using the impact wrench and not having another cap on hand. So, I let the dealer do it. This was 2 months ago and it was a PITA to have the dealer do it. Otherwise, I cannot remember the last time I took a vehicle to the mechanic to have work done on it.

The best thing is to learn to do this stuff yourself, and that includes home remodeling too. Now, if you are a brain surgeon with absolutely no time on your hands making $1,000+ an hour, then it obviously makes sense to have somebody else work on your bike, car, house, etc. Me, I'm just a self employed attorney/CPA that likes cars, cycling, hunting, fishing, shooting, and doing home improvements. Essentially, I like working with my hands and I like getting hand tools as presents. However, I'll take cycling, hunting, fishing, and shooting stuff as presents too and still have a smile on my face. Makes me wonder about the profession I chose.


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## raymonda (Jan 31, 2007)

fabsroman said:


> Half the time I forget which limit screw is for the high or low gear, so you know what I do, I shift the derailleur as far as it will go one way or the other and then see which limit screw is close to touching the stop on the derailleur. My Lord, we aren't talking about rocket science here. The last time I worked in a shop was in 1985. Until 2006, I had only ridden a 1985 bike with Super Record and down tube friction shifters. In 2006 I bought a new frame and a full Campy Record groupo and the only thing I really had to look up was how to install the cables in the brifters and how to adjust the shifting of the rear derailleur to make the index shifting smooth. Other than that, I only had to refer to the manual for torque settings here and there.
> 
> Seriously, let's not make bike building and bike maintenance look as hard as car repair and car maintenance.
> 
> With that said, I haven't taken a bike to a shop for work since 2006, and even then it was only because I didn't have the tools to install a headset. They botched that job up (i.e., didn't align the Chris King headset cups so the names matched) and scratched my fork, so I spent the $400 for headset tools and that will be the last time I visit a shop for them to do work on my bikes. Not to mention the driving there was a PITA and the labor fee wasn't fun either.



That about says it all! Ditto here!!!!!!!!!!!


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## R3 Sloth (Mar 25, 2010)

fabsroman said:


> Yep, I don't let anybody work on my guns or bows either. For the most part, I don't let anybody work on my cars either unless it is body work related, tire replacement, a wheel alignment, or I really screw something up. With that said, I learned the hard way for $230 on how to do a horizontal fuel filter change on my F350, which is to have less than 1/4 tank of diesel in it and to back the truck up onto ramps so the fuel stays away from the fuel pickup. I had just filled up with diesel when the water separator light came on and after I got the fuel filter cap off, 39 gallons of diesel started pouring down the fuel line. So, I slammed the cap back on and in the process cross threaded it so bad that I could not get it back off with hand tools and I did not want to risk having 39 gallons of diesel in my driveway after using the impact wrench and not having another cap on hand. So, I let the dealer do it. This was 2 months ago and it was a PITA to have the dealer do it. Otherwise, I cannot remember the last time I took a vehicle to the mechanic to have work done on it.
> 
> The best thing is to learn to do this stuff yourself, and that includes home remodeling too. Now, if you are a brain surgeon with absolutely no time on your hands making $1,000+ an hour, then it obviously makes sense to have somebody else work on your bike, car, house, etc. Me, I'm just a self employed attorney/CPA that likes cars, cycling, hunting, fishing, shooting, and doing home improvements. Essentially, I like working with my hands and I like getting hand tools as presents. However, I'll take cycling, hunting, fishing, and shooting stuff as presents too and still have a smile on my face. Makes me wonder about the profession I chose.


+1

Totally agree. I will try to do just about any repair that I have the proper tools for. In the past I have found that the lessons learned were well worth the cost and frustration.


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## fabsroman (Jul 14, 2006)

R3 Sloth said:


> +1
> 
> Totally agree. I will try to do just about any repair that I have the proper tools for. In the past I have found that the lessons learned were well worth the cost and frustration.


Yep, it is just like that with cars and almost anything else in life. Granted, if you really screw something up with a bike or car (e.g., screw up the brakes, cut a brake line, cut a fuel line, weld a gas tank with fuel in it), or decide to try to perform surgery on yourself and screw that up, really bad things can happen.

Just using my fuel filter example above that cost me $230 at the dealer, only $50 of that was for the new cap that I cross threaded. So, just to have the fuel filter replaced, the labor would have been $180. That fuel filter needs to be replaced every 15,000 miles or whenever the hoirzontal fuel/water separator has too much water in it. At $180 a pop, that gets pretty expensive. Yeah, I screwed it up and it cost me an extra $50, but I learned exactly how to do it the next time and will save $180.


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## David Loving (Jun 13, 2008)

Just simple gear envy.


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## Chris Keller (May 19, 2008)

I think some bike shops hate Campy because they don't make any money on repairs because Campy just doesn't break....

That's why you never see Campy service tents at organized rides...Campy equipment just works....


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## orange_julius (Jan 24, 2003)

PlatyPius said:


> My shop:
> #1 Campagnolo
> #2 SRAM
> #3 Shimano
> ...


Man, too bad your shop is nowhere near the Boston area .... will you accept rebuild jobs for shifters, etc.? I can find big shops here that can do it, too, but I like the idea of supporting small shops like yours.


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## z5Thor (Jun 29, 2010)

*No BS*

The simple truth is most campy riders are very into the sport and have a better understanding of what makes their bikes run than most (not all) other riders. Because of that most bike shops (not all) can't bullshit them about their bikes shifting issues or mystery noises. When I first started working in a shop in the early 80's a customer taught me all about Campy and I've been on it since, much later I went to work in a shop and brought my Campy tool kit in. The owner said I'd never have to use it there because they didn't work on Campy and didn't want to.Asword got around that there was a guy there with the complete tool kit and knew how to use it more and more "elites" started to come by not always for service but just to talk Campy. That shops high end sales went up quite a bit and when I left the owner and most of the staff were riding Campy. Shops are just afraid of it and it's owners.


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## PlatyPius (Feb 1, 2009)

z5Thor said:


> The simple truth is most campy riders are very into the sport and have a better understanding of what makes their bikes run than most (not all) other riders. Because of that most bike shops (not all) can't bullshit them about their bikes shifting issues or mystery noises. When I first started working in a shop in the early 80's a customer taught me all about Campy and I've been on it since, much later I went to work in a shop and brought my Campy tool kit in. The owner said I'd never have to use it there because they didn't work on Campy and didn't want to.Asword got around that there was a guy there with the complete tool kit and knew how to use it more and more "elites" started to come by not always for service but just to talk Campy. That shops high end sales went up quite a bit and when I left the owner and most of the staff were riding Campy. Shops are just afraid of it and it's owners.


I really just can't understand that attitude.
Campy works better than Shimano, in general. Campy can be worked on. Campy tends to target a more affluent/dedicated customer. Campy customers, in my experience, are more likely to buy from a bike shop than some internet store.
What is there to be afraid of?


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## Argentius (Aug 26, 2004)

*I stopped*

owning campy when the 11-speed stuff came out -- I like campy chains, but the beaucoup-expensive chain tool and silly through-the-roof prices to US distributors lost if for me. Likewise, most wheels and cassettes running around are still 10-speed.

I like the look and performance of campy stuff, but the proprietaryness is just too vexing.

Now that the Euro has dropped vis a vis the dollar, and with the availability of customs-cheating UK websites, suddenly it makes sense for consumers to own campy again.

On the OE side, any Campy build involves pretty significant exchange-rate risk. Back in 2001, there were a lot of people spec'ing Campagnolo -- the Euro was at parity with, or cheaper than, the dollar...


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## SwiftSolo (Jun 7, 2008)

pulser955 said:


> Let me start off by saying I have been in the industry for over 10 years. And I have worked in lots of shops. Most of the Mechanics I have worked with hate campy. I don't get it. The last 2 shops I worked in are so anti campy they wont carry any campy parts. Not even brake pads. I have ridden campy for about 5 years now and I don't know if I could go back to Shimano.


In the early days of mountain biking it was Shimano that was hatred in many shops. They tried their best to sell Suntour and Gripshit. It's important to ask yourself, "just how much riding does this bike mechanic really do"?

The Gripshit worked pretty well in the parking lot unless it rained or an insect peed on the cables. The great thing was that they could later sell you a roll-a-ma-jig, a bass worm, gore-tex cables, and a new d-spring in an attempt to make this crap actually work on trails!


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## z5Thor (Jun 29, 2010)

PlatyPius said:


> I really just can't understand that attitude.
> Campy works better than Shimano, in general. Campy can be worked on. Campy tends to target a more affluent/dedicated customer. Campy customers, in my experience, are more likely to buy from a bike shop than some internet store.
> What is there to be afraid of?


"Campy riders are too picky, they want everything just right" Yeah I've actually heard a bike mechanic(?) say that. They're afraid of customers who know more than they do. Good point about buying local, I have seen Campy guys knowingly pay more at the LBS because they appreciate the commitment the shop has made.The old saying used to be "Shimano wears out, Campy wears in" Maybe it's just easier to install a shiny new STI lever than to rebuild an Ergopower lever. Fixing things is fun, selling new things is profitable?


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## bmxhacksaw (Mar 26, 2008)

orange_julius said:


> If you have never worked on Campag parts before, how would you know which limit screw is for which? You'd have to look it up. And bingo, do you think that most people like having to look things up in order to get things done?
> 
> And that is juts for something very elementary. Imagine the effort needed to learn how to solve non-elementary tasks such as figuring out how to route derailleur cables, install a BB, or troubleshoot shifting problems.


If you claim to be a bike mechanic and can't solve the relatively simple problems you've mentioned above then you need to turn in your apron and go work at McDonald's.


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## ronderman (May 17, 2010)

As a 10 year plus shimano dura ace user who recently switched to campy I can tell you it's not just simple economics. There are real shops and there are real mechanics. If they don't know campy, then most likely they aren't a real shop or a real mechanic. They are people who sell bikes to make money and work on bikes to make money. There is a difference. These are the same shops that don't have cleats, real lube, real tires or a host of other items. What they do have is bontrager tubes and a spot light on the 8k specialized or trek. Stay away.

That's my thought.


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## mtbbmet (Apr 2, 2005)

Currently in stock at the shop, in terms of full groups anyway
2 SR11
1 Record 11
1 Chorus 11
1 Centaur
4 Veloce
2 Red
1 Force
4 Rival
1 DA7900
1 Ultegra

Yeah, we sell minimal amounts of Shimano.
For the record, both the DA and Ultegra came off of new bikes because the buyer wanted Campy.


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## bmxhacksaw (Mar 26, 2008)

ronderman said:


> As a 10 year plus shimano dura ace user who recently switched to campy I can tell you it's not just simple economics. There are real shops and there are real mechanics. If they don't know campy, then most likely they aren't a real shop or a real mechanic. They are people who sell bikes to make money and work on bikes to make money. There is a difference. These are the same shops that don't have cleats, real lube, real tires or a host of other items. What they do have is bontrager tubes and a spot light on the 8k specialized or trek. Stay away.
> 
> That's my thought.


Agreed.


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## CEVIS (Sep 13, 2009)

Campy = bike jewelry.


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## zamboni (Sep 11, 2003)

I'm glad all my bikes were built with Campy, started it out with ShimaNo then made a switch to Campy never look back.


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## il sogno (Jul 15, 2002)

Maybe it's because:

Campy=rebuilds
Shimano=swapping out components. 

Maybe it's just easier to swap out the used/broken components than it is to repair them.


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