# Gios Torino Super Record



## spie4337

Hi all,

Recently won a Gios Super Record (http://www.flickr.com/photos/actionslacks/) off ebay and was hoping for some info on it. Mainly, i was after clarification about the date of the bike, but also some info about the 'Super Record' model (ie. where it sat in the line-up compared to the 'record' and 'compact' models), and some more specific info about the forks and frame (i.e. is it columbus tubing like the earlier ones? Also, some of the earlier bikes have a coin in the forkcrown or a dark red 'GT' inscribed. What is the difference between these and the forkcrown on this bike?) would be greatly appreciated. Lastly, in my research ive noticed - and i think its on the earlier bikes - that some Gios Torinos have a 'GT' engraved on the underside of the bottom bracket. Although this one has 'GIOS' inscribed on the seat stays and the top of the bottom bracket, im not quite sure if it has the 'GT' engraved on the underside. Is this something i should be concerned about (ive noticed that on Sheldon Brown's 'Vintage Lightweight Pricing guide' he refers to some "Mexican built counterfeits of the early model that possibly can be distinguished by the lack of certain bottom bracket features")?

Thanks in advance for any info,
Sam


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## nenad

Ok, I can say this with fair certainty and that is: Welcome to the Gios club.

Now, let's discuss the bike:

From the pics I would most certainly say it's a Gios but here's what puzzles me. The engravings on seatstays are particular to Gios Proffesional and not Super Record. Another mystery is the top tube. It neither has 3 cable guides which are found on Super Record nor does it have internal cable routing found on Professional and early Compact.

Now the fork. That type of fork came with either Gios Professional or Compact, it has nothing to do with the Super Record.

Please take a look at the photos I have attached, the blue one is Super Record the white one is Professional. Yours is much closer to the white one.

Last, by looking at the head tube shot, I think I can discern the "GIOS" engravings on lugs, again specific to Professional and Compact. Also, the head tube badge is a sticker, it should be metallic which leads me to believe that this bike has been repainted and restickered.

I would like you to take close up photos of head tube AND underneath the bottom bracket. Let's try and find out what model it is before we discuss other stuff. Also, can you tell me how much you paid for it ?

Regards,

Ned


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## spie4337

Thanks Ned for all the info. I can see what you mean. Unfortunately i havent received the bike yet, partly because ive been slightly suspicious. Ill speak to the seller and see if he can send through some more pics (of the underside BB and the headtube). I might hold back until i actually clarify some of these issues (even if its not a super record, is it definitely a Gios?). The bike, as pictured, cost $650-700 US (400 GBP).


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## amicus

I have a Gios Torino Super Record and one of its main distinctions is a painted fork with a flat crown which is affectionately referred to as a double nickle crown, ie brass Gios inserted emblems which tended to fall out and were replaced with nickels.

The other distinction is a relatively short top tube in relation to the seat tube. I have a 58cm c/top and the top tube measures 55.5cm and the seat and headtube are 74 degrees parallel

Hope this helps


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## nenad

amicus said:


> I have a Gios Torino Super Record and one of its main distinctions is a painted fork with a flat crown which is affectionately referred to as a double nickle crown, ie brass Gios inserted emblems which tended to fall out and were replaced with nickels.
> 
> The other distinction is a relatively short top tube in relation to the seat tube. I have a 58cm c/top and the top tube measures 55.5cm and the seat and headtube are 74 degrees parallel
> 
> Hope this helps


This is the exact same geometry of my Gios Compact which I like so much. Now back to the issue.

Is it a Gios? I say it is. Take a look at the photos. The circles I've marked as white in photos are undeniably Gios trademarks and those are: engravings on seat stays and BB cluster as well as drilled dropouts. To be precise, those details are particular to Gios Professional. Shape of head lugs is also authentic.

The circles marked in red show you where I am perplexed. If you take a look at the top tube sticker there's a place where cable guide should go IF this was a Super Record. Also, in one of the photos, I think I can discern a cable guide as being positioned slightly underneath the top tube.

It is entirely possible that this particular frame was customized for a customer and that customer requested cable guides to be positioned where they are (I've seen Gios Compacts with some added features like cable guides attached to head lugs).

So, in case this turns out to be Gios Professional, then it is most likely made out of Columbus SL or SLX tubing (I've seen few with Oria RANF as well). At the time it was made (1984. till 1989.) it was their top model.

As far as I can see from the pics, it is decked out with Campy Chorus of that era, seems to be in a very good condition and whoever did a repaint of the frame seems to have done a very good job. The price seems fair to me.

Request the close up photos of head tube and BB from underneath and post them here.

Regards,

Ned


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## amicus

It's a Professional. The Super Record didn't have a braze on front derailleur hanger, the Professional did and the Compact, which I also have, is the most recent version Gios and is distinguished by its rear replaceable drop-out derailleur hanger.


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## nenad

Yes, it does look like a Professional. I forgot about brazed on derailler hanger, or lack of it, on Super Record. Just look at the second picture below, Professional should have internal cable routing like that, the one he bought does not. I find it very interesting...and not in a bad way.


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## moschika

the cable routing on the top-tube is on the lower left side of the tube and is only 2 stops where the cable is exposed between them. I would say it's not "typical". i'm wondering if perhaps the top-tube was replaced. the frame is pretty clean and looks like it could've been repainted. the area around the bottle and shifter mounts have no rub marks from use. they look pristine. I also haven't seen the Gios marks filled in as stock, something that could've been done the previous owner or frame painter.

i'm guessing it's a professional but may have had some "surgery" done.


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## nenad

moschika said:


> the cable routing on the top-tube is on the lower left side of the tube and is only 2 stops where the cable is exposed between them. I would say it's not "typical". i'm wondering if perhaps the top-tube was replaced. the frame is pretty clean and looks like it could've been repainted. the area around the bottle and shifter mounts have no rub marks from use. they look pristine. I also haven't seen the Gios marks filled in as stock, something that could've been done the previous owner or frame painter.
> 
> i'm guessing it's a professional but may have had some "surgery" done.


Yeah, I figured we're gonna get input from you. Some very good observations by you and here's my take: that frame was repainted. The clue is in the head badge, it's a sticker (like on early Super Records). The top tube sticker is wrong, it doesn't belong there. The engravings have been painted white, which is a nice touch, but I don't think it was factory default on Professionals.

All in all, it is still an authentic Gios if you ask me. And whoever did the repaint did a nice job.


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## spie4337

The seller did say in the description that it had been 'professionally refurbished', and did make note that the 'GIOS' on the seat stays and bottom bracket were filled in. To help clarify things the seller has uploaded some pics of the bottom bracket and the head set (they are on the flickr website at the top of this page), however they are a bit blurred. I think i can discern '60*076' (?) as the serial number. Not sure if this is of any help mind.

However, if this is a professional (which from the evidence presented, it most likely is) how come the internal cable routing has been replaced? Wouldnt this require removing the original top tube and replacing it with a new one without holes? Could this possibly lead to structural issues with the frame?


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## nenad

Yes, it is a Professional for sure, the holes in bottom bracket, the serial number and engraved name in head lugs make this perfectly clear. The remaining thing is the top tube, IF it was replaced at all (I imagine you could inquire at [email protected] and ask them if they EVER made top tube styled as it is on that bike) and if it was done properly should leave no structural weakness on the frame itself. Mind you, it does indeed appear that the frame was refurbished professionally, apart from top tube itself + the wrong sticker on it, it looks very clean.

The bad news is, you won't know until you receive the frame and ride it...

Last, I like the bike. Also, plz take a good look at seller's feedback. If it's a big reputable seller, you can take his word for it. Also, let the seller know that you've consulted us at the forums and see if you can get the deal to return the bike if it doesn't turn out to be as described.

I hope all this helps, I'm really trying to help you do the right thing...

P.S. If the first number of the serial is 6, this means the frame was made in 1986, it will most likely be Columbus SL, but I would like other to help me on this one. The year the bike was made is correct for Gios Professional and incorrect for Super Record which was last made in 1983.


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## moschika

nenad said:


> It neither has 3 cable guides which are found on Super Record nor does it have internal cable routing found on Professional and early Compact.


i was just looking at a Gios brochure for the "Professional" model with RdV and a lady on a lady's Pro and the bike next to RdV has the 3 cable guides like the SR's AND a clamp on FD. It really looks like the an SR with a Pro fork painted to match and Pro decal. 

it could be this is a weird crossover model, where they used older remaining stock on a new model. though why they positioned the cable guides where they did and the kind they used is still a mystery. kind of like the SR with the Gios cut-out on the BB and coins in the fork crown.


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## David Loving

I have had good luck with responses from gios.it. I'd ask them. That is a nice looking one. I like the white.


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## Giospro

It looks like a GIOS Professional to me as nenad said, i have one 1987 Model Wht With Campy's witch i'm trying to restore it but can't find the stickers/Logos for it
looks almost like nenads GIOS Bike


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## paletti

I also do think this is a "Professional". 
Some strange, "extra"-ordinary Gios frames do exist. Right now, I'm building up a NOS rame from the eighties, a Gios super record frame. The colour is original, yet very strange and an unusual darker metallic blue for a Gios. At least, I've never seen one like this... yet I know they existed in white, red, metallic burgundy red and even black or chrome...rare frames , yet there are some of them around.


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## moschika

Giospro said:


> It looks like a GIOS Professional to me as nenad said, i have one 1987 Model Wht With Campy's witch i'm trying to restore it but can't find the stickers/Logos for it
> looks almost like nenads GIOS Bike


keep checking ebay. I've seen full sets of transfers for Pros on there.


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## bikegreece

Maybe this comes to late as a question to this post but I need some help.
Given Gios short top tubes what is teh recomended rider's height for a 58 frame?
thank you


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## nenad

bikegreece said:


> Maybe this comes to late as a question to this post but I need some help.
> Given Gios short top tubes what is teh recomended rider's height for a 58 frame?
> thank you


I ride a 58 size frame, and my height is 186 cm. I could also ride a 59, but I can by no means say that 58 is too small for me.

Hope this helps.


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## bikegreece

nenad said:


> I ride a 58 size frame, and my height is 186 cm. I could also ride a 59, but I can by no means say that 58 is too small for me.
> 
> Hope this helps.


You look very experience and I am a rookie in road bikes. What do you think between this:
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=250792971929&ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT
and 
this:
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=290547016129&ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT


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## nenad

bikegreece said:


> You look very experience and I am a rookie in road bikes. What do you think between this:
> http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=250792971929&ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT
> and
> this:
> http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=290547016129&ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT


I'm partial to Gios Compact Pro because:

1. I own one, and it is setup almost exactly the same as the one on eBay
2. It comes with a contemporary (integrated shift lever) group set

Having in mind the above, I also have to say that Gios SuperRecord is considered legendary model, is more collectible and holds the value better. In the end, it comes down to what you like better.

I'm gonna follow that auction and see what the SuperRecord will sell for...


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## bikegreece

I am 1.86 as well and I am glad to hear that you fit well on the 58 bike. the guy with the super record however wrote me that the top tube is 54cm c to c!! Although a 58 this seems to short. The other guy with the compact measured 56.5 it's top tube but the broshure in the photos presents the 58 to have 55.5 top tube. I am a little confused on how the sellers measure this, unless Gios used different geometries through the years. What is your c to c top tube and what stem do you use? 
I lean toasted the compact but I need to short the correct size first. With our height I guess we could sit comfortably on a 58 c to c top tube as well like the collnagos.


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## nenad

bikegreece said:


> I am 1.86 as well and I am glad to hear that you fit well on the 58 bike. the guy with the super record however wrote me that the top tube is 54cm c to c!! Although a 58 this seems to short. The other guy with the compact measured 56.5 it's top tube but the broshure in the photos presents the 58 to have 55.5 top tube. I am a little confused on how the sellers measure this, unless Gios used different geometries through the years. What is your c to c top tube and what stem do you use?
> I lean toasted the compact but I need to short the correct size first. With our height I guess we could sit comfortably on a 58 c to c top tube as well like the collnagos.


You are correct, top tube c-c for a 58 size frame is 55.5 (in other words, the seller is plain wrong). I use a 120mm stem, but could probably put a 125 or maybe even 130.

All bikes I have owned so far had top tubes between 55.5 and 56.5.

Hope this helps.


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## onespeedbiker

If it's any help the Campy components are 1988-91 Athena (Syncro II)


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## AJL

bikegreece said:


> You look very experience and I am a rookie in road bikes. What do you think between this:
> http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=250792971929&ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT


Wow, beautiful bike! (except for the ergo bars)


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## bikegreece

*Found one*

I finaly won this one which is a 59 and I feel more correct for my size. The photos are not very good and details are missing but I hope that it is OK overall. I am wondering where can I find decals, teh doun tube decal is torned and I do not now why the top tube decal is missing.

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dl...3dZS23M%3D&viewitem=&sspagename=STRK:MEWAX:IT


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## nenad

bikegreece said:


> I finaly won this one which is a 59 and I feel more correct for my size. The photos are not very good and details are missing but I hope that it is OK overall. I am wondering where can I find decals, teh doun tube decal is torned and I do not now why the top tube decal is missing.
> 
> http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dl...3dZS23M%3D&viewitem=&sspagename=STRK:MEWAX:IT


Nice score. You are not gonna believe this, but decals are also on eBay and you need these:

http://cgi.ebay.com/Gios-complete-s...aultDomain_0&hash=item45ef8d974a#ht_500wt_922


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## bikegreece

nenad said:


> Nice score. You are not gonna believe this, but decals are also on eBay and you need these:
> 
> Thank you very much for your help and your prompt responces.
> Is there any chance that this is not the super record?
> In any case I am looking forward to ride the bike.
> Thank you again.


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## nenad

bikegreece said:


> nenad said:
> 
> 
> 
> Nice score. You are not gonna believe this, but decals are also on eBay and you need these:
> 
> Thank you very much for your help and your prompt responces.
> Is there any chance that this is not the super record?
> In any case I am looking forward to ride the bike.
> Thank you again.
> 
> 
> 
> Pictures indicate that it is, namely a drilled drop out and the "coin in the crown" fork which are specific to this Gios model.
Click to expand...


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## Rogus

Searching for Gios brought me to this thread. Just looking for some advice about my 1981 Gios Torino Super Record.

I'm trying to decide whether to keep it and upgrade it with new components or sell and buy a new complete bike. I'm not mechanical or into retro like some seem to be. I not interested in riding a bike with down tube shifters and tubular tires. The bike is original from when I had it built up with a mix of Campagnolo Record and Dura-Ace. It would probably be a better resale value if it was all Campy, but that's not what I did. It just seems the cost to "upgrade" to new components is almost the cost of a pretty decent new bike. Plus it almost seems sacrileges to take off components that match the vintage of the frame. I'm finding it difficult to make a decision about which to do.


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## EhGiOeS

*Re:Gios Super Record*

Just gloating a little bit. Attached a couple shots of my "77-78" $40.00 Super Record. All
original including the Ti pedals except the rear rim.Ed


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## Rogus

$40 is a steal. I've checked online and they're in the hundreds for most of them. I'm not a Gios expert, so didn't know they came in red.


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## EhGiOeS

*Re:Gios Super Record*

Ya they were made in blue,red,black,and white. I've never seen a black one. Ed


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## PRB

Rogus said:


> Searching for Gios brought me to this thread. Just looking for some advice about my 1981 Gios Torino Super Record.
> 
> I'm trying to decide whether to keep it and upgrade it with new components or sell and buy a new complete bike. I'm not mechanical or into retro like some seem to be. I not interested in riding a bike with down tube shifters and tubular tires. The bike is original from when I had it built up with a mix of Campagnolo Record and Dura-Ace. It would probably be a better resale value if it was all Campy, but that's not what I did. It just seems the cost to "upgrade" to new components is almost the cost of a pretty decent new bike. Plus it almost seems sacrileges to take off components that match the vintage of the frame. I'm finding it difficult to make a decision about which to do.


 If you're happy with the way it rides then upgrade away. Save the old parts so that if you decide to sell it down the road you can put them back on - and you'll have a modern group for the new frame. It might be a bit expensive but IMO your frame is far better than the vast majority of what's sold today. Some places offer 'build kits' which are a better price than buying the parts one at a time and there's always the classifieds on the forums....you might be surprised how much money you can save if you aren't in a rush.


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## moschika

EhGiOeS said:


> Ya they were made in blue,red,black,and white. I've never seen a black one. Ed


does yours have the chrome fork? I've never seen any SR's in any other color besides blue. I thought they didn't make the other colors until the "Professional" model came out in '83/'84. At least none of the ads or catalogues I have list any other color besides "blue" for the Super Records.

btw, $40 is a super deal.

for the OP, if you like the frame and how it rides, just upgrade the parts to modern stuff and sell the old stuff to recoup some of the cost.


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## EhGiOeS

I've read some where they were made in the four colors. Seen blue ,white and red. The chain ring is
pantographed as is the chrome fork. The bike appears to be all original except the replaced rear rim
First gen. SR RD dated "77" Ti pedals. Ed


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## epicus07

very nice


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## moschika

EhGiOeS said:


> I've read some where they were made in the four colors. Seen blue ,white and red. The chain ring is
> pantographed as is the chrome fork. The bike appears to be all original except the replaced rear rim
> First gen. SR RD dated "77" Ti pedals. Ed


it's possible. seems like other countries had other color options beside the US, for many brands. but here's the ad for the professionals I was talking about, although they don't have red, which I know they did because I used to have one.


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## Cinelli 82220

The frame is from 77 or 78, but the paint is not original. 
They were all blue until the Professional came out in white in the early 80s. Black, red and chrome followed.


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## David Loving

all beautiful bikes - my favorites!


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## EhGiOeS

*Re:Gios Super Record repaints*

Here's another repaint. They must have had quite an industry. The fork decals almost look real, but I'm sure not. Ed


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## bikegreece

Here is mine before, during and after restoration


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## Cinelli 82220

EhGiOeS said:


> The fork decals almost look real, but I'm sure not. Ed


They are real, Gios put the same decal on some stems as well as the forks.

That frame is too old for those decals though. Only a few frames of that style had the Super Record decals. It deserves the Brooklyn team style decals, they look way better. The white panel style was created so they could be quickly applied and the bikes would look better and be more easliy identified in pictures or on TV.


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## Cinelli 82220

bikegreece said:


> Here is mine before, during and after restoration


Remarkably good colour match! Not many painters can match Gios blue.


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## EhGiOeS

Anybody see this Gios on EBay.es 260801881939. This guy always has interesting bikes mostly frame sets. But with his wild prices he never seems to sell anything. Ed


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