# Mason Lake roll call



## Argentius (Aug 26, 2004)

Any other racers here heading up to Mason Lake?

I'll be there with the First Rate Mortgage guys. This is a nice course to start your road racing season on -- basically flat, but not a pancake, decent roads.


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## guelch27 (Feb 24, 2005)

I'll be there representing Mobile Money along with a few other of my team mates.


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## Spinnerman (Oct 21, 2004)

I was there with Old Town in the Cat 4 race.


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## Argentius (Aug 26, 2004)

I live just outside of T-town, OTB is a cool bike shop and makes for a hillarious acronym.

Do you live nearish?


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## Spinnerman (Oct 21, 2004)

Argentius said:


> I live just outside of T-town, OTB is a cool bike shop and makes for a hillarious acronym.
> 
> Do you live nearish?


I live in University Place, but it is convenient for me to stop by on the way home from work. 

Quite a few guys on the team live in or near OTB.


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## Argentius (Aug 26, 2004)

Live IN OTB?

I am in the no-man's land between Tacoma and Seattle, too... I ride a lot either on marine view drive / NE tacoma, and in the green valley area


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## Spinnerman (Oct 21, 2004)

Argentius said:


> Live IN OTB?
> 
> I am in the no-man's land between Tacoma and Seattle, too... I ride a lot either on marine view drive / NE tacoma, and in the green valley area


That's not too bad. If you live in the valley you can go up Lakeside Landing by Bonney Lake and out toward Buckley and Enumscratch or go out toward Flaming Geyser and up the hill toward Black Diamond and ride around East King County. 

Have you tried East Camp Road climb by Lake Kapowsin or Victor Falls (Rhodes Lake Road) out by Sumner?

Most of my after work riding is down Grandview into Lakewood/DuPont area or north to Point Defiance and some of the roads around Old Town and north Tacoma. 

I work in Auburn and would ride around there at lunch if I had more than 30 minutes.

How did you decide to ride for Pazzo Velo?


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## Argentius (Aug 26, 2004)

I actually live just above the valley, so I hop in there and often do the west valley road climbs for a quick interval session.

I haven't tried the climbs you mention, I'll go find 'em!

Pazzo / FRM, well, I moved to the area recently, and was poking around looking for local teams towards the end of the summer. They had a website, I emailed them, met up for a group ride, and they all seemed like a cool bunch.

How'd you find OTB, it seems like a pretty small crowd...


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## Eric_H (Feb 5, 2004)

*The 'Claw*



Spinnerman said:


> Enumscratch


Thread drift....

I can only assume you are calling Enumclaw by its stage race name "Enumscratch". Also goes by "Enumscab" or "Chickenclaw".

Seriously, is there a worse crit than Enumcalaw? My worst memory was in 2003, the P/1/2 men started in icy rain (temp was around 35 F). I flatted 2 minutes before the start and started at the back of 120 dudes. Some fun. I have a friend who has been "clawed" every time he has ridden that crit, I think he is 4 for 4 in crashes versus starts.

I noticed last year that the attendance was significantly down, only about 75 or 80 P/1/2 men. I might go this year, but it'll be Masters for me. As much as I hate the crit, I love Mud Mountain Road!


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## Argentius (Aug 26, 2004)

Last year the crit didn't rain on me.

Mud mountain is more like mud molehill, but it's a fun little climb. I wish it were 5 times as long instead of 5 laps, then it could make the difference.

Still, the lack of mud mountain might keep me away from the 'scratch race this year. I hear it's not nearly as cool of a course, something about the locals getting grumpy...


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## Spinnerman (Oct 21, 2004)

Eric_H said:


> Thread drift....
> 
> I can only assume you are calling Enumclaw by its stage race name "Enumscratch". Also goes by "Enumscab" or "Chickenclaw".
> 
> ...


I think the road course is a good race, but like Argentius said, too bad it isn't a little longer.

As for the road race, it would be much harde iif on the last lap they sent us up to Greenwater where there is a 10 mile paved forest service road with two very steep climbs. The finish on top would definitely be a decider in the race.


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## Argentius (Aug 26, 2004)

Woah, haven't tried that one. How paved is paved -- like, skinny road tires okay or "you could do it on a cross bike" paved? 

I will google earth the elevation gain on the climbs...


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## Spinnerman (Oct 21, 2004)

Argentius said:


> Woah, haven't tried that one. How paved is paved -- like, skinny road tires okay or "you could do it on a cross bike" paved?
> 
> I will google earth the elevation gain on the climbs...


Chip Seal paved. I road it on skinny road tires last year. Pretty much just like Skate Creek from Packwood to Ashford. I have seen pot holes form on it some years, but they get patched. It is Forest Service Road 70. Just past Greenwater on your left as you are going toward Crystal Mountain on SR410. 

I don't know the elevation, but there are two climbs. Let me know the elevation when you google earth the route.

Thanks


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## Argentius (Aug 26, 2004)

Okay, looking...


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## Argentius (Aug 26, 2004)

Looks like NF-70 starts at about 1700 feet, and tops out around 4500. Pretty solid gain, though only the last bit looks especially steep. There are a lot of little branches that look good too, do you know how many of them are paved?

Also, where do they close off the pass in the winter? I'm excited to try out a lot of the mt. rainier climbs, I"ve never done crystal, sunrise, any of 'em, since it has been closed basically since I've been up here.

I got a cross bike this winter, and I am getting some Schwalbe "trekking" tires that can handle hardpacked dirt and gravel as well as tarmac, and the idea is to spend a lot of time over the summer riding up a lot of the forest service roads.


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## Spinnerman (Oct 21, 2004)

Argentius said:


> Looks like NF-70 starts at about 1700 feet, and tops out around 4500. Pretty solid gain, though only the last bit looks especially steep. There are a lot of little branches that look good too, do you know how many of them are paved?
> 
> Also, where do they close off the pass in the winter? I'm excited to try out a lot of the mt. rainier climbs, I"ve never done crystal, sunrise, any of 'em, since it has been closed basically since I've been up here.
> 
> I got a cross bike this winter, and I am getting some Schwalbe "trekking" tires that can handle hardpacked dirt and gravel as well as tarmac, and the idea is to spend a lot of time over the summer riding up a lot of the forest service roads.


I remember some good stretches on the road that I would say were around 10%.

I have not been on the road in the winter, so I have no idea about the conditions. It depends on the snow fall in any given year because the roads are allowed to thaw out. My impression of the road is it is rough in places, but nothing that a good training tire can't handle. It didn't seem any rougher than Skate Creek; I have done that climb many times. I didn't see any other paved roads branching off but plenty of hard packed dirt road, which you could ride when it is reasonably dry with a cyclocross bike and there are some really steep logging roads in this area that you could check out. Ask the mountain bike guys about those roads for a better idea. 

I have done all of the pass climbs in that area many times. Unfortunately, because of the flooding this year I am not sure what will be open. Check with Mt. Rainier NP to find out. Here is my impression of all of the climbs in that area.

Cayuse/Chinook from Crystal Mtn.turnoff on Hwy 410. Not terribly steep but a nice climb. Should be done early in the morning because there is no shoulder and traffic can be heavy. the best part is after Cayuse when you make the turn for Chinook. Very scenic on a clear day and a couple of switchbacks.

Sunrise, very gradual until you pass the road for White River Camp Ground where the classic climb starts and the climb eases up after you make the turn at Sunrise Vista. This section of the climb averages just over 6%. Once you pass the the turn at Sunrise Vista on a clear day you can see both Mt. Adams and amazing views of Rainier and you only have a couple hundred feet more to climb until you are at Sunrise Lodge. This is probably the most scencic and classic alpine style cliimb in the park. Highly recommended.

Cayuse/Chinook from the South starting at the East entry to Mt. Rainier NP. Very easy to start, (This climb is more challenging and longer with some flat stretches too if you start in Packwood). This in my opinion is the hardest climb in the area, especially if it is hot and you start in Packwood. (The climb to Paradise from Packwood includiing Backbone Ridge is very tough if you have a headwind later in the day) I think it is probably the steepest average grade once you get to the point where the climbing really starts. You can combine this climb, with Sunrise and then a short easy climb back over Cayuse and maybe Chinook before returning to your car at the east entry to Rainier. 

A nice early season loop, but won't be open for the whole season this year, is to start in Ashford and park at Whitaker Bunkhouse in the back. Sometimes I will buy and espresso from them for using their parking lot. Ride into the park and complete the climb to Paradise, descend into Box Canyon and complete the short climb to Backbone Ridge and then descend to the East Exit. Then there are several options. The first time I do the ride each year I turn right leaving the park and descend the roads to Packwood. Refuel at the Shell Subway on the corner of US12 and Skate Creek Road. Then climb skate creek and ride back to Ashford. 82 miles with just under 7k of climbing. Next time around, after turning right at the park, I will turn left onto US12 and climb White Pass. The first 6 miles are a fairly constant 6%. Then it eases up and then kicks back up again. This is my favorite climb in the area for some reason, I just like it. Smooth road, nice shoulders and I take the turnoff as I am climbing for the view point of the canyon on the right. At the top on the left is a Gas Station and deli. The descent on the way back is great because you don't have to touch the brakes until you make the right turn to go back to the East entrance to MRNP. Then you have a good climb up backbone ridge, a short descent and then the climb out of Box Canyon back up to Paradise and descend to your car. About 10k of climbing. 

There is another great climb to Windy Ridge on Mt. St. Helends. Start in Randle, WA riding south and then follow the signs to Windy Ridge. Great undulating climb and can be very exposed if hot on Forest Service Roads and then return to Randle. Great view of the Mt. St. Helens area from the opposite side of Spirit Lake that you would see from Johnson visitor Center.

Crystal Mtn. is another climb but I don't really like it because the road is in terrible condition. 

Well, that is my take on the local climbs around Mt Rainier. I am sure others may have different opinions.


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## Argentius (Aug 26, 2004)

Nice to meet you out there today.

How'd your race go?


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## Spinnerman (Oct 21, 2004)

Argentius said:


> Nice to meet you out there today.
> 
> How'd your race go?


My race was great ... or should I say I did my job in my race. I set up my team member for the break. I worked the front of the pack with a couple of other teams and we shut down the field. My teamate won the Cat 4 race and the series. 

As for myself, rather than sprinting for ninth place in a meaningless race I took a flyer with about 1 mile to go. About 7 TiCycle guys worked to pull me back so I sat up and decided to sit up rather than contest a sketchy sprint.

How about your race ... any luck getting in a break?


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## Argentius (Aug 26, 2004)

Nice job! I agree, I wouldn't get involved in a sketchy-crap sprint either.

Yeah, I FINALLY got a move to stick. I got in a bunch of crappy moves that went nowhere on lap 1, attacked hard on lap 2 and ended up solo, held off the pack (with teammates working the front) for ~2 laps, a couple guys bridged, THAT got nowhere, then another few guys jumped and even though I thought I was absolutely dying I hung in there somehow.

Ended up coming 2nd out of a break of 6. I didn't sprint the guy who won, because he seemd like he REALLY wanted it and it's not like you, y'know, GET anything.

Good stuff.

Unlike today in Ravensdale, in which I got muddy as crap and then my crankarm fell off. What the crap?


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## Spinnerman (Oct 21, 2004)

Argentius said:


> Nice job! I agree, I wouldn't get involved in a sketchy-crap sprint either.
> 
> Yeah, I FINALLY got a move to stick. I got in a bunch of crappy moves that went nowhere on lap 1, attacked hard on lap 2 and ended up solo, held off the pack (with teammates working the front) for ~2 laps, a couple guys bridged, THAT got nowhere, then another few guys jumped and even though I thought I was absolutely dying I hung in there somehow.
> 
> ...


Sorry to hear about your crank arm. I completed a couple laps of the 4/5 race at Ravensdale. Fortunately they added an extra lap, but unfortunately, the changed the course direction and combined the fields. My legs were not warmed up yet and I did not like the yo-yoing and sloppy bike handling I was seeing in front of me. I decided to drift back and ride the back of the pack and keep the rubber down and see if my legs would come back around later in the race. After we passed the Finish line for the second time I decided to call it a day. I was getting chills on the down hills and my heart wasn't in it anymore to deal with the yo-yoing (I am so glad to be out of the 5's) and don't like the negative race tactics were a large team will get on the front and purposefully play the game where they slow down at top of the hill and accelerate again.

Oh well, hope for better at Indepence Valley. That first hill should clear up the pack.


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## Argentius (Aug 26, 2004)

*There's a hill?*



Spinnerman said:


> Oh well, hope for better at Indepence Valley. That first hill should clear up the pack.


Nice. How big is it?

I can't seem to find a course profile...


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## Spinnerman (Oct 21, 2004)

Argentius said:


> Nice. How big is it?
> 
> I can't seem to find a course profile...


About a two mile climb. Maybe a tad less steep than Victor Falls, but unlike Victor Falls, there are no short downhills to recover. Then there is a descent, you ride through a valley for a while, then another hill, less steep this time and then back to the start finish line.

I am surprised you didn't do this race last year. 

Good luck this year. You've got the build to and power to do very well at Independence Valley.


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## Gnarly 928 (Nov 19, 2005)

OK youse guys...so you are "climbers" and feel like a "proper" bike race should be decided on a climb or a hill..It seems like that is the customary way most courses are chosen. However, it is pretty fun to race a course where descending plays a part in the win, too. (In my humble opinion) The majority of races don't do that, but a few do, and they are fun for us larger riders who like to go really fast.

There's a road race in Utah where the finish is about 1/2 mile beyond the bottom of a long steep hill (used as another stage for the uphill TT course). So you climbers have a big steep climb in the middle of the race but us bike handlers have a chance to catch back and pass on the steep technical descent with a flat run in to the finish. Love races like that, since I suck on climbs. 

Where is it written that courses ought to favor itty bitty wittle climbers, only? 

Hee hee. Don Hanson


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## Argentius (Aug 26, 2004)

Whatever. I dragged everyone around at Mason lake, and that is flatsville. ;P

I think the reason not many amateur races are like you describe is because a "steep technical descent where bike handlers have a chance to catch back and pass" is a good place for "people to crash and die..."


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## Argentius (Aug 26, 2004)

Thanks, I hope so. I didn't do this one last year because a ) I didn't really race very much last year and b ) I was racing a Collegiate race in Oregon.


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## Sugahara (Jun 1, 2006)

Arg.- which team did you race for last year? OSU?


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## Argentius (Aug 26, 2004)

K-man, right?

The handful of races I did, I raced in Portland State University kit.


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## Sugahara (Jun 1, 2006)

You got it. Ah sweet. PSU. I think I met you last year at the WVC. I was in race lead until a crash in stage 3. Congrats on Mason by the way. Looks like you're in pretty good form this year.


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## Argentius (Aug 26, 2004)

Yep, that's right! I remember you. I also said what's up at the Larch Mountain deal last year.

Well, this is my second full season of cycling, and this past winter I actually trained! I think that helped... how's OBRA?

BTW I posted a report on my blog / in the forum about the I.V. road race. I know youse been keeping that OBRA3 blog, but I don't think you came north for IV. You can quote it or something. I will also talk some smack shortly.


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## Sugahara (Jun 1, 2006)

Cool! OBRA's doing quite well. We have quite a few races this year. (Packed schedule). 

Training always helps. We have some strong guys in the field this year. Two guys already got their upgrades to 2 this year. 

Cool. Smack talk is always fun. 

Nope, never came up north for IV. Hopefully I can get back on track with training after this pneumonia.


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