# Is the Supersix 105 slow?



## cosgti (Jan 20, 2007)

After riding a custom built steel racing bike the last 12 years I bought a 2013 Supersix 105, 63 cm. The Six feels much more sharp than my steel bike but it feels very sluggish. 
I commute to work and the last road I did on my steel bike I averaged 16.6 mph with a 20 lb pack with computer, clothes, etc. Today I did the same ride, with a much lighter back (minus computer, shoes), and busted my a$$ to see how much faster I could make it home and ended up at 16.6 mph exactly. My exertion was far greater than when I rode my steel bike. 
for reference my steel bike is a 64 cm with full Ultegra (circa 2003), and 12 year old open pro rims. The steel bike is probably 2 lbs. heavier than the six. 
Any thoughts? Do the 105 components and rs-10 wheels suck that much?


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## zamboni (Sep 11, 2003)

What wheels are you running on the steel bike? That could be a major factor.


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## abrasive (Jan 18, 2012)

Did you have the bike fit to you the same way?


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## cosgti (Jan 20, 2007)

The steel bike wheels are Mavic OpenPro rims with DT spokes and ultegra hubs. They are great wheels and have stood the test of time. But being twelve years old, I figured new, low-end wheels may out perform the OpenPros but now I'm second guessing that.


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## systemr (Aug 12, 2012)

the wheels on the 105 level bike are noticeably worse in terms of smoothness and rolling resistance than on the SuperSix 3 (Ultegra) which aren't particularly great wheels either (Mavic Kysium Equite - note I have a 2012 model, the 2013s has Akisums?)


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## gus68 (Oct 19, 2010)

Is it a flat route?


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## cosgti (Jan 20, 2007)

It's a route with rolling hills. For today's commute I put on my old OpenPro wheels but had a considerable headwind so it was a bad day for a comparison. 
If it makes any sense, the Ultegra wheels just feel like they get wound up a lot more and coast a lot faster but that may just all be in my head.


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## charlox5 (Jan 31, 2011)

are you using the same tires in the same size and same pressures?

weight, aero factors, rim weight...i won't get into whether these things ultimately matter or not, but I will say that tires will always have a bigger impact on speed than any of those factors.


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## cosgti (Jan 20, 2007)

I'm not using the same tires but am running the same pressure. The rs-10 rims have brand new Schwlabe Lugano and the OpenPros have some Vredestein race tires with about 300 miles on them. I was giving some thought to the tires and may swap the vredesteins to the rs-10s and see how much difference that makes. 
The weight of the rims feels pretty similar to me. Do the hubs make any difference in the speed of the wheel?


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## charlox5 (Jan 31, 2011)

cosgti said:


> I'm not using the same tires but am running the same pressure. The rs-10 rims have brand new Schwlabe Lugano and the OpenPros have some Vredestein race tires with about 300 miles on them. I was giving some thought to the tires and may swap the vredesteins to the rs-10s and see how much difference that makes.
> The weight of the rims feels pretty similar to me. Do the hubs make any difference in the speed of the wheel?


Yup, try the Vred's on the RS-10's and then take the data. Not sure about the Luganos, but in general there's a noticeable difference in feel and (depending on the ind. tires) rolling resistance between a race tire and a commuter tire. Pressure will be irrelevant, generally, because the tires construction will make the ideal pressure variable.

Hubs shouldn't make a difference, unless they're in severe disrepair/ungreased/bearings are shot.


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## CHL (Jun 24, 2005)

You will need to give us a bit more information and you'll need to ride both bikes a few more times before you can infer anything from any statistical data. Wheels can make a big difference, especially if you ride high profile wheels. There's a reason why triathlon ride those wheels. 

I do not believe you would notice much speed difference between the Shimano RS10 and a pair of Open Pro/Ultegra wheels. However, the Schwalbe Luganos are absolute pile of crap. Had those on my Slice and promptly removed them. They're cheap and nothing more. Get a pair of Michelin or Schwalbe tires (sorry I'm biased toward those tires). 

How comfortable are you on the Super Six? Are you fighting the machine or does your position allow for powerful and efficient pedaling? Also, busting your ass may work against you, especially if you hit the red zone too early as it will take an awful long time to recover. During that period, you'll ride quite slowly.

I wouldn't sweat it and just continue riding your SS6.


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## gus68 (Oct 19, 2010)

Just noticed you are riding a 63cm, so you must be a fairly big guy. My brother is a casual rider and he recently switched from the RS-10s to the open pro's. He noticed a big improvement. I've had a set of open pros since 1992 and always thought they were a great stiff wheel. I have no evidence to support this, but I think bigger guys will notice the flex in some of the cheaper wheels before the lighter guys. Just my opinion. I ride a 2011 supersix 3 and noticed a big improvement when I switched my aksiums to a stiffer wheel set and I'm 74kgs.


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## charlox5 (Jan 31, 2011)

gus68 said:


> Just noticed you are riding a 63cm, so you must be a fairly big guy. My brother is a casual rider and he recently switched from the RS-10s to the open pro's. He noticed a big improvement. I've had a set of open pros since 1992 and always thought they were a great stiff wheel. I have no evidence to support this, but I think bigger guys will notice the flex in some of the cheaper wheels before the lighter guys. Just my opinion. I ride a 2011 supersix 3 and noticed a big improvement when I switched my aksiums to a stiffer wheel set and I'm 74kgs.


I rode RS-20's and I'm a jr. clyde. never thought they were flexy or not adequately stiff.


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## Turtle Torque (Jun 13, 2011)

cosgti said:


> After riding a custom built steel racing bike the last 12 years I bought a 2013 Supersix 105, 63 cm. The Six feels much more sharp than my steel bike but it feels very sluggish.
> I commute to work and the last road I did on my steel bike I averaged 16.6 mph with a 20 lb pack with computer, clothes, etc. Today I did the same ride, with a much lighter back (minus computer, shoes), and busted my a$$ to see how much faster I could make it home and ended up at 16.6 mph exactly. My exertion was far greater than when I rode my steel bike.
> for reference my steel bike is a 64 cm with full Ultegra (circa 2003), and 12 year old open pro rims. The steel bike is probably 2 lbs. heavier than the six.
> Any thoughts? Do the 105 components and rs-10 wheels suck that much?


I was in a similar boat as you. Went from a Synapse to a Supersix. I bought a SS frame and transferred all my groupo, handlebar and wheels over to SS. I noticed an immediately improvement on handling and how dang stiff the bike was. However, I felt when climbing or out of saddle sprint it had a numb feel to it. It "Felt" slow, but my garmin edge data showed I had improved in all aspect of my riding. I typically do a small 2-4 men/women bike ride and didnt understand why the "numb" feeling on sprints or climbing (because I took it easy with my girlfriend riding along and didnt want to drop her), until I did some large group (+15 riders) or ride with my hammer friends is when it was evident the bike wasnt sluggish or "numb" feeling. I zipped right past the riders on climbs and hardly had to pedal in a peloton and the sprints were easier than before. I think it's because my Synapse had a coil effect due to the bike not being a stiff which gave me the impression it was more lively. give the SS couple more rides and you'll start seeing the difference and performance will get better.


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## Roadone (Jun 18, 2011)

cosgti said:


> After riding a custom built steel racing bike the last 12 years I bought a 2013 Supersix 105, 63 cm. The Six feels much more sharp than my steel bike but it feels very sluggish.
> I commute to work and the last road I did on my steel bike I averaged 16.6 mph with a 20 lb pack with computer, clothes, etc. Today I did the same ride, with a much lighter back (minus computer, shoes), and busted my a$$ to see how much faster I could make it home and ended up at 16.6 mph exactly. My exertion was far greater than when I rode my steel bike.
> for reference my steel bike is a 64 cm with full Ultegra (circa 2003), and 12 year old open pro rims. The steel bike is probably 2 lbs. heavier than the six.
> Any thoughts? Do the 105 components and rs-10 wheels suck that much?




Your LUGANO tires are your main problem! Put some GP4000s on the RS10's and you will see a positive roll difference! Your RS10 wheels are not as bad as many will lead you to believe.


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## knucklesandwich (Feb 23, 2007)

How long is your commute, how often do you do it, and what other kind of exercise are you getting?

These things (in addition to weather, wind, etc.) have a bigger impact than you might think. I commuted 24 miles roundtrip for a while, and did so on any number of bikes: cx w/ fenders, singlespeed, CAAD9, and the bike was definitely not the cause of the largest deviations. 

Some days the singlespeed would feel like a Ferrari, and some days the CAAD would feel like a Yugo.


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## 98koukile (Mar 15, 2013)

I feel the same way about mine, people always seem to kill me who I'm evenly matched with or in some cases way more fit than. I still don't want to blame the bike, I enjoy riding it very much


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## David Loving (Jun 13, 2008)

Volant R/T - Alloy Clincher Wheelsets - ROL Bicycle Wheels - ROL Wheels Get some good wheels. There's nothing slow about the bike.


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