# Bay Area Super Prestige Series (Caution! Cyclocross content!)



## Rojo Neck (Jun 23, 2008)

Tough, but fun day at McLaren Park in S.F. yesterday. I saw Cooper there but didn't get much chance to chat...how did it go? Any other NorCal forumites there?

Photo courtesy kathryn aaker ("squishy").


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## jgrantv10 (Nov 17, 2005)

Yup. A ton of fun, though my day was somewhat epic. Near the end of lap one I was sitting 4th wheel when I got a front puncture. Took forever to change my front wheel (frackin' full-fingered gloves) but finally got back on the end of the field. Crawled my way back through the pack, broke my cleat off in my pedal with a lap and a half to go, kept churning away, ended up 27th. Heh. Good times. I love the run-up at McClaren - good thuggery. A buddy of mine broke his face open but finished first anyway - then went to the ER for a dozen stitches. Also, good times.


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## Rojo Neck (Jun 23, 2008)

Wow. You fared much better with your flat than I did (which race were you in?). I was in 35+ Bs, flatted on the first lap (which also seemed to take forever to change...the entire 35s and 45s fields flying by as I was fumbling around!). Managed to pick of a few but kept overcooking it and just never moved up much. I did manage to avoid DFL, but just barely


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## jgrantv10 (Nov 17, 2005)

Yeah, I feel ya on watching the field go by as you fumble with brake cables and quick-releases (oh yeah, I swore at the time I was going straight home to file the lawyer tabs off my front fork). I was in Cs but my lap times were the same (once I was back up and running) as my buddy who won so I think I should perhaps join you for B35s the rest of the season. Tough call for me as I really like being done by 9:30 and having the rest of the day to do stuff with my wife. I don't feel like I'm sandbagging Cs, but I might be borderline. Generally, I feel I really should err on the side of increasing my own challenge even if my results suffer. The 2:05pm start for Bs makes that out the question for me. I don't mind eating a whole day for cycling, but only if that is on the bike.

[Edit: By the by, were you jumping the log on the back side of the course? That was a huge time saver and pretty low risk.]


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## Rojo Neck (Jun 23, 2008)

jgrantv10 said:


> [Edit: By the by, were you jumping the log on the back side of the course? That was a huge time saver and pretty low risk.]


I was dismounting and carrying that one on advice from John Elgart (Master 55+ leader and general Wise Person), who witnessed your buddy do his face plant there and subsequently suggested that we (Webcor/Alto Velo crew) should carry it. Seeing your buddy's face, I would not characterize it as "low risk"


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## jgrantv10 (Nov 17, 2005)

Yeah. Well I was opting for the low-speed "pop the front tire onto the log and roll over" method while Russ was employing the higher-speed semi-bunny hop method. One felt extremely repeatable with little risk while the other, well, draw your own conclusions. All in all a fun course but pretty bumpy for my old bones. I'm surprised we didn't see gophers popping their heads out of holes on the baseball outfield.


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## mike6108 (Jun 12, 2004)

Rojo Neck said:


> Wow. You fared much better with your flat than I did (which race were you in?). I was in 35+ Bs, flatted on the first lap (which also seemed to take forever to change...the entire 35s and 45s fields flying by as I was fumbling around!). Managed to pick of a few but kept overcooking it and just never moved up much. I did manage to avoid DFL, but just barely


Hey there, question for you veteran CXers: I was there yesterday for my first ever cross race. Had a lot of fun but really ended up getting my arse handed to me in terms of placing. I raced with the Cat Cs. Looking at the results this morning, I'm wondering if I would have better been off (with less suffering to my ego  ), had I ridden in the 35+ Bs, given that I'm 39. Looks like the top finisher in the 35+ Bs would have placed 27th in the Cat C race.

I thought Cat C was the least competitive, and yet you've got the first place finisher on a 40-minute course with a time of 34:58!

BTW, I saw the guy at the finish with the blood all over his face - hope he was OK!


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## jgrantv10 (Nov 17, 2005)

Yeah, he's fine twelve stitches and some ethiopian food later. ;-)


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## Rojo Neck (Jun 23, 2008)

mike6108 said:


> Hey there, question for you veteran CXers: I was there yesterday for my first ever cross race. Had a lot of fun but really ended up getting my arse handed to me in terms of placing. I raced with the Cat Cs. Looking at the results this morning, I'm wondering if I would have better been off (with less suffering to my ego  ), had I ridden in the 35+ Bs, given that I'm 39. Looks like the top finisher in the 35+ Bs would have placed 27th in the Cat C race.
> 
> I thought Cat C was the least competitive, and yet you've got the first place finisher on a 40-minute course with a time of 34:58!


Well I'm hardly a "veteran" but I'll offer my opinions. Cs is for learning, not so much for results. It's kind of like Cat 5 for road; it's the learning ground. Placing high in the Cs is neat, but I would see that more as a sign that you are ready to move up. Seems a little douche-baggy to have done well in the Cs one season, then return to the Cs the next season.

I never won, or even placed very high in the Cs last year, but I figured I had done my learning, and one season in Cs is plenty. So I'm doing 35+ Bs this year; mediocre results there are not much different from mediocre results in the Cs so what the heck, why not ride at a (theoretically) higher level. Hard to tell from one race, but I feel like the main difference is not so much in fitness (it's hard no matter what!), but in riding ability and bike handling skills. In the Cs you get people just randomly crashing for no apparent reason. There are still crashes in the Bs but usually not from riding on flat terrain with no corners.

I think it can be misleading to compare times from one race to another...even those where 2 fields are on the course at the same time. They're different races; different leaders; different race dynamics.


Edit: Also, I would not say that "Cs are the least competitive". Any event in the Bay Area involving bicycles in which it is possible to have a winner is going to have a pretty strong level of competitiveness. All of the races are quite competitive. The main difference is in abilities (of the classes as a whole), not competitiveness.


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## jgrantv10 (Nov 17, 2005)

That is pretty close to my understanding. Cs is the "beginner" category - a place to learn a new set of skills, learn about setting up your bike for different terrain (tire pressure and tread) and have some fun competing with people doing likewise. (That's how I'm approaching it anyway.) I would add, however, that spending some time at the front of the race is also learning and well worth experiencing. If, after racing Cs you want the next challenge, then by all means, go for it. But don't feel obligated to jump categories the moment you sniff a podium finish. You can learn a lot (starting, smoother cx skills, tactics, strengths and weaknesses, etc.) by spending some time trying to get results in whatever category you are in.


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## thinkcooper (Jan 5, 2005)

What a blast yesterday! I rode like an old man in an old man's group. 45+ B. Had a bad last lap with a front tire that slid out on the off-camber corner right before the log crossing. I lost at least ten places with that wipe out. Those descents were like hanging onto a, hmm, what's the word, oh yeah - jack hammer!!!

Being my second ever CCX race, there's still some stuff I need to dial in. #1 - Clincher pressure, #2 - faster/smoother dismounts and mounts. That run up was cool. I kept taking the right side up and stepping off the stump onto my saddle. The only place I was able to make up ground was on the paved hill climb and the wide soft section before the hill onto the baseball fields. 

Where else was anyone passing?

Sorry to hear about your flat. Where did you flat? Were you #814?


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## Rojo Neck (Jun 23, 2008)

jgrantv10 said:


> You can learn a lot (starting, smoother cx skills, tactics, strengths and weaknesses, etc.) by spending some time trying to get results in whatever category you are in.


That's pretty much the bottom line, and what I like about the self-categorization in CX...if you want to ride with the big boys, you can! You might get killed on lap 1, but you can at least start with 'em


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## Rojo Neck (Jun 23, 2008)

thinkcooper said:


> Sorry to hear about your flat. Where did you flat? Were you #814?


Yea that was me. I actually started with it nearly flat, and it was totally gone by the time I hit the pits on the first lap. Convenient, to be sure, but playing catch-up after the change really wore me out. I would pass guys, then be so gassed that I'd lose places. I just never could get back in the game. Oh well, yet another lesson learned.



> Where else was anyone passing?


I was able to pass people (and got passed by people) on the paved climb and on the wider dirt just above that. I also passed a couple of people going through the quad barriers...I have improved my dismounts & remounts and that helped gain some time, but really just tiny drops in a giant bucket of suck :cryin:


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## mike6108 (Jun 12, 2004)

Rojo Neck said:


> Well I'm hardly a "veteran" but I'll offer my opinions. Cs is for learning, not so much for results. It's kind of like Cat 5 for road; it's the learning ground. Placing high in the Cs is neat, but I would see that more as a sign that you are ready to move up. Seems a little douche-baggy to have done well in the Cs one season, then return to the Cs the next season.
> 
> I never won, or even placed very high in the Cs last year, but I figured I had done my learning, and one season in Cs is plenty. So I'm doing 35+ Bs this year; mediocre results there are not much different from mediocre results in the Cs so what the heck, why not ride at a (theoretically) higher level. Hard to tell from one race, but I feel like the main difference is not so much in fitness (it's hard no matter what!), but in riding ability and bike handling skills. In the Cs you get people just randomly crashing for no apparent reason. There are still crashes in the Bs but usually not from riding on flat terrain with no corners.
> 
> ...


Thanks for the input. I've been riding for a few years now, but this was my first bicycle "race" of any sort. Part of my question stems from the fact that I just missed the cut-off at the finish and wasn't allowed to take my last lap. I know, I know, get in better shape is the mantra, and I aim to do that, but hey, for $40, I would have at least enjoyed the opportunity to finish the race. Also didn't help that I had to get off the bike 3-4 times to stretch my calves, both of which kept cramping up. But all in all, I had fun and I'm looking forward to the next event. :thumbsup:


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## Rojo Neck (Jun 23, 2008)

mike6108 said:


> Thanks for the input. I've been riding for a few years now, but this was my first bicycle "race" of any sort. Part of my question stems from the fact that I just missed the cut-off at the finish and wasn't allowed to take my last lap. I know, I know, get in better shape is the mantra, and I aim to do that, but hey, for $40, I would have at least enjoyed the opportunity to finish the race. Also didn't help that I had to get off the bike 3-4 times to stretch my calves, both of which kept cramping up. But all in all, I had fun and I'm looking forward to the next event. :thumbsup:


Well, that is just CX to some extent. You *did* get to finish...just, not as many laps as the others  It is necessary to pull people due to the packed schedule...just like crits, etc.

Have a look through the results, all of those "@1"s. Don't feel bad; you're not alone...even the As have quite a few. This is a particularly challenging course, too...I recall from last year that there seemed to be a higher proportion of people getting lapped at McLaren than any of the other Pilarcitos courses.

Anyway: don't base too much off of one race. Have fun! That, to me, is the main thing. I'm not quitting my day job anytime soon!


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## jgrantv10 (Nov 17, 2005)

Passing seemed fine everywhere except the section that begins when you drop into the "single track" to the beginning of the paved climb. And, yes, "hanging onto a jack hammer" describes it perfectly.


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## mike6108 (Jun 12, 2004)

For those of you running with clinchers, what tire pressure were you using? I thought my arms were going to be shaken out of their sockets on that downhill stretch before the paved climb! I was at 50 psi on my 700 x 30 tires.


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## Rojo Neck (Jun 23, 2008)

mike6108 said:


> For those of you running with clinchers, what tire pressure were you using? I thought my arms were going to be shaken out of their sockets on that downhill stretch before the paved climb! I was at 50 psi on my 700 x 30 tires.


Yeah that was a pretty bumpy course. Seems like all of these Pilarcitos courses prominently feature the hardpack. Keeping your arms bent and somewhat relaxed, and getting slightly out of the saddle can help with that to some extent.

I was running around 50 psi on 32s. Actually, I guess I was running about 0 for a while on the front (not recommended!)  50 was probably on the high side but I tend to error in that direction with clinchers, otherwise you really increase the risk of pinch flatting. I would rather have a bumpier ride. BTW you may be reading this and saying, "yeah but you flatted anyway you moron", and that is true, however I have since discovered that it was a puncture (thorn), not a pinch flat.

I'm actually looking into running tubeless (i.e. Stan's NoTubes or similar) which would allow slightly lower pressures and eliminate the pinch flat risk (along with a few extra grams of spinning mass). I've been asking around but haven't yet found many CXers that run them.


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## Redster (May 5, 2008)

Magic number for tire pressure is 35PSI.THis seem to work on almost all corse I had done. Dismounting is al just practice,lots of it. Maybe one day just do skills drills practicing getting off the bike first smoothly. Then after a bunch of those and dialing them out, practice remounting and emphasize landing on our inner thigh and sliding in to the crotch/sitting area and clipping in as fast as you can. Dialed that then practice both skills together,remind you that just practice it on a long dirt straightaway. Mount and remount a few times till you think it's smooth enough. Then practice just getting off the bike before a barrier. Now it's up to you if you wanna dismount two steps before the barrier or five or more defending on your comfort level. Speed comes also as confidence comes.One last thing... don't look at the barriers as you run them.


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## jgrantv10 (Nov 17, 2005)

I know quite a few people running tubeless (usually Michelin Mud's, stan's cx strips, and some flavor of rim). I plan to test a tubeless set up at some point. I've been running tubulars but punctured anyway on Sunday. Should probably run higher than 32 on front given the rocky terrain? Another lesson.


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## Rojo Neck (Jun 23, 2008)

jgrantv10 said:


> some flavor of rim


From what I understand of tubeless, this may be the most critical part. The Stan's propaganda says "any rim" but in speaking with a few people (one of whom is Adam of MTBR fame) they say the right rim + tire combo is essential for getting a good seal.

I may play around with this too...seems like Stan's is the best bet as it is non-adhesive and easily removable if you don't like it (?).

32 psi? 35 psi? sheesh you guys are a lot braver than I am! I could pinch flat my rig just by looking at it sideways, running that low


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