# how long to reach from 180-200watt to 350watts sustainable power?



## nightflame159

Hi guys, so heres my story made short..its my second summer riding my road bike just for fun.At the end of last summer i was averaging 23-25 kmh in my 2hours ride, 2-3 times a week at steady pace. Didnt ride the whole winter, did 2 months of interval training in the gym before this summer and when i sarted this year, i was averaging 28-29 kmh in the same 2hours ride. I was blown away by the increase in speed with only 2 months of training...but then i stoped the interval and came back to my last year routine of doing 2-3 rides of 2 hours at steady pace and my average speed as gone down to 25-26 kmh.

Now my question is...looking at my strava data, it says im riding at 180-200watts (i weight 200lbs)...i see those riding the same segment as me going at around 35kmh have watts around 300-350...if i do interval training the whole winter(7-8 months) is it realistic i could reach the same amount of power? also i want to drop my weight to 185lbs to help.


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## Jay Strongbow

I do not have a power meter and am not all that familiar with what is good, bad and indifferent as far as watts go.....but I do know that 35KPH (or 21MPH) for two hours riding solo is a very aggressive short term goal and unobtainable for some. And that's assuming a flat course with little to no wind. Throw in hills and it becomes more aggressive of a goal bordering on unrealistic.


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## misterwaterfallin

FTP wise? That's a huge jump(200-350 is 57%). Buy a real power meter and get a coach is my advise. Lot's of 20' and 30' intervals are in your future to push that up


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## nightflame159

So its very agressive but doable if i train 10-15hours a week? My interval plan was interval every 2-3 days with easy recovery rides in between.I sarted with a resistence i was only able to ride for 2 min and slowly increased time to 10min. Then i started again with a greater resistence. Also im 27 and i probably heals fast as i tend to bulk up very easily when i do weight training even if i run a lot and ride a lot between my weight days.


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## Undecided

For what duration? If you're talking about 20 minute climbs, I have teammates who have been racing and training for years and don't hold 350 watts for 20 minutes. They're lighter than you, but most people who are over their best range of cycling weight are there much more because of fat than muscle, and being a fit 160 pounds vs. a fat 185 pounds doesn't mean giving up a lot of endurance power.


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## Jay Strongbow

nightflame159 said:


> So its very agressive but doable if i train 10-15hours a week? My interval plan was interval every 2-3 days with easy recovery rides in between.*I sarted with a resistence i was only able to ride for 2 min and slowly increased time to 10min. Then i started again with a greater resistence*. Also im 27 and i probably heals fast as i tend to bulk up very easily when i do weight training even if i run a lot and ride a lot between my weight days.


What do mean by that? Almost sounds like you're treating pedaling a bike like it's weight lifting. 
There is no need to have 'resistence' set so high you can't pedal it for more that 10 min. Did you just forget to mention you can't pedal it at such and such a cadance? 
If you can't pedal it at any cadance.....you're going about this all wrong. Being fast on a bike isn't about being 'strong' the way weightlifters would think of strength.


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## cxwrench

And why are you concerned w/ this specific power output? I wouldn't trust the accuracy nor the consistency of 'Strava' power readings unless you actually have a power meter of some type. 
Here are some numbers for you to think about for a minute. I'm 170lbs, sorta fast track sprinter. The power numbers will obviously be off because you weigh a lot more than me, but here goes...
Sunday ride...21mi, 1hr 17min. Mellow shop ride w/ about 7-8mi of 'going fast'. 350w is well into the anaerobic zone for me...from 1hr 17min ride time, I spent 3' 13" in that zone...and we were crushing it at the time. 25-27mph on slightly rolling terrain. 

I think you have a lot to learn about power, fitness, and cycling in general.


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## Kerry Irons

nightflame159 said:


> looking at my strava data, it says im riding at 180-200watts (i weight 200lbs).


No, you are not putting out those kinds of wattages at that speed on the flats. At your weight you'd be doing 200 watts at 26 km/hr. if you were climbing a 1.3% grade. On the flats it would be closer to 100 watts.

Whether you can ever hit 350 watts is as much a matter of genetics as training and I think you would already know if you were capable of that. Just for reference it would be nearly 42 km/hr. on the flats for you to sustain 350 watts.


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## nightflame159

Jay Strongbow said:


> What do mean by that? Almost sounds like you're treating pedaling a bike like it's weight lifting.
> There is no need to have 'resistence' set so high you can't pedal it for more that 10 min. Did you just forget to mention you can't pedal it at such and such a cadance?
> If you can't pedal it at any cadance.....you're going about this all wrong. Being fast on a bike isn't about being 'strong' the way weightlifters would think of strength.


I forgot to say during intervals i keep my cadence slightly over 90rpm...im just doing these short intervals to gradually boost my power until i can ride at a fast speed, then ill work more and more on sustaining this fast pace for longer period of times. Also i know i have a lot to learn as im a newbie to this sport but im willing to get more serious and put the effort. As for the strava power, i dont trust it that much, its just a range of power that the fastest guys seem to be able to produce.I dont even have a powermeter and seing how they cost, i wont buy one soon.


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## nightflame159

cxwrench said:


> And *why are you concerned w/ this specific power output?* I wouldn't trust the accuracy nor the consistency of 'Strava' power readings unless you actually have a power meter of some type.
> Here are some numbers for you to think about for a minute. I'm 170lbs, sorta fast track sprinter. The power numbers will obviously be off because you weigh a lot more than me, but here goes...
> Sunday ride...21mi, 1hr 17min. Mellow shop ride w/ about 7-8mi of 'going fast'. 350w is well into the anaerobic zone for me...from 1hr 17min ride time, I spent 3' 13" in that zone...and we were crushing it at the time. 25-27mph on slightly rolling terrain.
> 
> I think you have a lot to learn about power, fitness, and cycling in general.


I want to be able to have this power as i calculated on a bike calculator site that to be able to go around 35kmh on flat with slight wind, id need to be in the 300ish watts range.


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## nightflame159

Kerry Irons said:


> No, you are not putting out those kinds of wattages at that speed on the flats. At your weight you'd be doing 200 watts at 26 km/hr. if you were climbing a 1.3% grade. On the flats it would be closer to 100 watts.
> 
> Whether you can ever hit 350 watts is as much a matter of genetics as training and I think you would already know if you were capable of that. Just for reference it would be nearly 42 km/hr. on the flats for you to sustain 350 watts.


Well this power is not on flat, its an average power for a 15min segment...some section im only at 130Watt and other section i can be at 250...theres a short climb of 1 min that i was at 325watts and my heart rate got to 189bpm...i would not have been able to go any longer at this intensity.


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## cxwrench

The 'power' readings from strava and a garmin are pretty much useless. Using an SRM is an eye opening experience. If I just roll away from a stop in 39/19 or 17 and accelerate to 18-20mph it takes over 300w. To spin that gear at that speed on flat ground is around 125w. If I stand up from a stop and just push a little on 53/19 I'm at damn near 400w. The wattage really spikes up and down a lot just riding around town, but when you're making a constant effort it becomes much harder to maintain anything close to 300w for longer than a few minutes.


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## Bridgey

I started out 3 to 4 years ago as a 125kg rider and use to do a tonne of intervals, etc. Yes they increase power and speed over a longer distance, especially if you start getting into your 5mins to 20min intervals. I also got injured regularly from pushing too hard and found that my power disappeared quick if I didn't keep it up.

But in all honesty, as was with me, the best thing you can do at this stage is just get out there and ride. Don't have that 2mths off, etc. Just enjoy being out there. Ride as many hours as your woman will allow you to ride a week over all soughts of terrain. Try and ride at a steady tempo, but don't timetrial every ride. Do a few hard efforts each ride up a few hills, etc only if you feel like it. Getting that good base that is built up over years will give you the most long term benefits and increases in real power. You will be holding 300W before you know it and can then build on that to peak for certain races. 

My FTP has gone up every year even though I am now 43yrs old and much lighter. 

As for Strava, I bet those 350W guys were drafting. Strava doesn't account for this. 350W by yourself for 2hrs is pretty much pro level stuff. 350W for 1hr is the very best of Cat 1 - A grade stuff. A 300W FTP is still very good and I can't imagine you getting dropped from too many races with this, especially if you hold much higher than this for shorter periods of time. 

Trust me, for now just get on your bike and clock 350km minimum a week.


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## mikerp

^^^^
Great post.
@OP forget about power and power meters at this point.
Get out and ride, do some intervals time or distance pushing it and taking breaks.
If you push too hard with no base, you won't get there.


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## DMH2979

^^^^^ yes this.

You need to just ride more and sometimes go hard and sometimes go easy. Don't worry about the numbers too much. Enjoy the freedom because once you start training with power, it can get very scientific (I've been training with a PM for 15 years) and a lot of number crunching which can take the pleasure out of "just riding" for riding's sake. I have a love hate relationship with my PM. Sometimes I hate the fact that every time I glance down, I see my SRM and numbers, but when I ride without it I feel lost (tongue in cheek). Some times I take black electrical tape and tape over it. 

I don't crunch the data, I pay someone else to do that  I am not a numbers person and while interesting, I try not to get into the weeds. But I know people who are so obsessed about the numbers I cannot see how they enjoy cycling.

Given your post, I would venture that you might get pretty wrapped up in the numbers so for now, just ride, ride a lot, and maybe borrow a PM to see what it's like, but really don't worry about what other people are doing . . . at least for now.


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## Fireform

The rest of your life. If you're lucky.


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## jspharmd

Never compare your total watts with other riders. They could weigh more than you (affecting the watts needed to go a certain speed), the power calculations can vary (especially without a reliable power meter), and the conditions could be different (affecting power). 

If you aren't on a year-round training program, don't worry about power (especially watts calculated without a power meter), just ride and have fun. If you are considering serious training, spend your money on other things: 1) trainer 2) coach 3) entry fees for races/events (riding with other faster riders is extremely beneficial). 


My advice is to just ride and have fun at this point.


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## the_gormandizer

This question is like asking how long it would take to develop 20 inch biceps. For most of us that will never happen no matter how much we might want it.

Come to think of it, I used to want it to happen. Now I look at body builders and think about how much more effort they would have to put into getting up a hill on a bike as fast as me.


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## nightflame159

Ok so if i understand well what you guys say is i should favor volume more than intensity? Also im not that much into number and i understand it dosent take multiple factor like wind,drafting...im just trying to figure out if with one whole winter of training i could get fast enough to start doing some events and races in my next summer.


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## woodys737

nightflame159 said:


> Ok so if i understand well what you guys say is i should favor volume more than intensity? Also im not that much into number and i understand it dosent take multiple factor like wind,drafting...im just trying to figure out if with one whole winter of training i could get fast enough to start doing some events and races in my next summer.


Guys new to riding who are untrained will see large performance gains quickly (months to a couple years perhaps) compared to when they started. So, no matter what you do or how you ratio your riding you will improve. Point is just keep it fun and ride as much as you feel like. If you feel like going fast, push it. If you feel like going slow and looking around, do it. 

With regards to power and Strava just don't get too caught up in the numbers. Power is great to train with but you have to have consistently reliable data. Strava won't give you that. One day you could in fact put out less power and Strava will say you crushed it. If you make assumptions based on really bad data and act on those assumptions you could hurt performance in the long run.

IMHO, in the beginning, advise such as just ride more is spot on until you understand some basic principles of training and your body gets past the untrained stage.


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## JCavilia

> ..its my second summer riding my road bike just for fun


Your whole approach seems bizarre to me. You say you're riding for fun, you're crunching all kinds of numbers, you seem determined to confine your interval training to winter gym work, and then you just ride a steady pace on the bike, and you see your performance decline.

Ride more, and ride hard sometimes. Do the intervals on the bike (but don't pay too much attention to the numbers). It's more fun that way, too. Cycling is inherently an interval sport, if you want it to be. Sometimes you sprint, sometimes you climb hard, sometimes you back off.


> ...im just trying to figure out if with one whole winter of training i could get fast enough to start doing some events and races in my next summer.


You can do "events" right now, depending on what they are, and you could try racing, too. Numbers and Strava comparisons won't tell you how you'll do -- just go try.



> Also im not that much into number


Wiht all due respect, it doesn't sound that way.


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## Jay Strongbow

nightflame159 said:


> im just trying to figure out if with one whole winter of training i could get fast enough to start doing some events and races in my next summer.


You don't need to be a certain speed to enter races and especially 'events'. It is advisable that you know how to ride safe though.....so again just ride your bike and try to get as much time with other people as you can.
Training all winter and getting the fitness to be ready for a race doesn't mean you have the skill to be in a race. Fitness is only half of what you need unless you're talkin about time trials.


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## nightflame159

JCavilia said:


> *Your whole approach seems bizarre to me*. You say you're riding for fun, you're crunching all kinds of numbers, you seem determined to confine your interval training to winter gym work, and then you just ride a steady pace on the bike, and you see your performance decline.
> 
> Ride more, and ride hard sometimes. Do the intervals on the bike (but don't pay too much attention to the numbers). It's more fun that way, too. Cycling is inherently an interval sport, if you want it to be. Sometimes you sprint, sometimes you climb hard, sometimes you back off.
> 
> You can do "events" right now, depending on what they are, and you could try racing, too. Numbers and Strava comparisons won't tell you how you'll do -- just go try.
> 
> 
> Wiht all due respect, it doesn't sound that way.


Well it is bizzare for sure, im just sarting and learning...i did the interval thing this winter and i tought it would give me permanent gain but i saw its not the case, thats why im comming here, ill learn a lot from you guys. Also i look to be into numbers but im not..its just the only way i know to quantify and see my improvement.


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## nightflame159

Jay Strongbow said:


> You don't need to be a certain speed to enter races and especially 'events'. It is advisable that you know how to ride safe though.....so again just ride your bike and try to get as much time with other people as you can.
> Training all winter and getting the fitness to be ready for a race doesn't mean you have the skill to be in a race. Fitness is only half of what you need unless you're talkin about time trials.


I was thinking i could join a local bike club to learn these aspect...i just fear that if im not fit enough, i will get droped.


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## arai_speed

nightflame159 said:


> I was thinking i could join a local bike club to learn these aspect...i just fear that if im not fit enough, i will get droped.


You won't know until you try.

When you do try, and you get dropped, then and only then, will you know how hard you need to train to do to keep up with them.


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## tom_h

*HERITAGE Family Study*

OP asks "how long to reach from 180-200 to 350 watts sustainable power?"

Could be 6 months with hard training ... or it could be Never. 

_www.runnersworld.com/general-interest/new-book-offers-latest-science-on-nature-vs-nurture-debate _
_
.... most famous exercise genetics study of all time was called the HERITAGE Family Study. It was this consortium of five universities that took DNA from about 100 two-generation families and put them on five months of identical bicycle training. _
_
They found that the participants—none of whom had prior training—had this massive range of VO2 max increase. Fifteen percent had no improvement, while 15 percent of people on the exact same training improved their VO2 max 50 percent or more. _

_It had nothing to do with how good they were to start. 

Families stuck together along this improvement curve, and in 2011 these researchers found a number of genes that predict a lot of an individual's ability to improve with training.
_
The interviewee also relates some interesting aspects of former Mile world record holder, Jim Ryun:

_Jim Ryun’s story is a great one to illustrate someone who is a “rapid responder” to training ... 

He was a terrible athlete in middle school. He joined the cross country team his freshman year in high school just because he wanted a varsity letter and had been counted out from other sports. He was something like the 14th guy on the “C Team” when he first started. And doing the same training as the other guys on the C Team, he starts—almost by the week—moving up the team to the point where, by the end of that season, he's the top runner and they win the state championship. Literally in just one season.

He goes from like a 5:40 miler at the beginning of cross country season to 4:08 during track season, even with the time off. His training response is just unbelievable._


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## nightflame159

Wow! This study is very interesting! I hope im not one of these untrainable poeple.


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## JCavilia

nightflame159 said:


> I was thinking i could join a local bike club to learn these aspect...i just fear that if im not fit enough, i will get droped.


What's to fear? Everybody gets dropped. You try again, next time you hang on longer. Or you don't. Either way, it's not the end of the world.

You can't learn to ride in a group without riding in a group, and you can't race safely without some group riding skills. Go find some rides. And you don't have to join a club. Many shops and organizations organize group rides that anyone can join. Look around. And they often have several levels of rides, so you can start with the slower ("B") group if you're uncertain of your ability.

You're thinking too much, and putting too much effort into quantifying things that don't need to be quantified at this point. IMHO.

Have fun. That's the most important thing.


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## sneakyracer

JCavilia said:


> What's to fear? Everybody gets dropped. You try again, next time you hang on longer. Or you don't. Either way, it's not the end of the world.
> 
> You can't learn to ride in a group without riding in a group, and you can't race safely without some group riding skills. Go find some rides. And you don't have to join a club. Many shops and organizations organize group rides that anyone can join. Look around. And they often have several levels of rides, so you can start with the slower ("B") group if you're uncertain of your ability.
> 
> You're thinking too much, and putting too much effort into quantifying things that don't need to be quantified at this point. IMHO.
> 
> Have fun. That's the most important thing.


I agree, you need to get out there and try. It is certain you will get dropped. A lot. But you will get better and better. Cycling, like anything, is tough at first. But you will improve in a few months if you ride consistently. After you have some experience and build a nice aerobic base then you can start some formal training. If you want to start now then go to a coach. A lot of training (for cycling fitness) can be done indoors but you need group riding experience and out on the road also to hone your bike handling skills. 

I just started cycling today! myself after not having been on a bike of any sort for 18 months. I struggled to average 16-17mph today on a 30 mile flat ride. 2 years ago I could average 19-20mph easy on that same route and I could keep going for 70 miles at the same pace. I was very happy to be back on the bike but was a little down for being so slow but I understand I can get back and even improve on my previous capacity if I just keep riding. Either way it was fun and I was smiling the whole way. I just love to ride.


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## cyclesport45

nightflame159 said:


> .i just fear that if im not fit enough, i will get droped.


Welcome to cycling, son. You WILL get dropped. Deal with it.


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## mendo

If you have a steepish (7%+) sustained climb (half a mile to a mile or longer), I think strava power data might be more useful, at least for comparing your own efforts to one another, and comparing yourself to other riders (as opposed to getting an accurate absolute number of watts).

As others have said, drafting and wind speed throw off data on flat segments too much for it to be anything other than mildly interesting.


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## runabike

nightflame159 said:


> Now my question is...looking at my strava data, it says im riding at 180-200watts (i weight 200lbs)...i see those riding the same segment as me going at around 35kmh have watts around 300-350...if i do interval training the whole winter(7-8 months) is it realistic i could reach the same amount of power? also i want to drop my weight to 185lbs to help.


First, the Strava power thing is a joke. Seriously. You should completely, 100% ignore it. 

Second, you will very likely never even sniff 350 watts. Likely never sniff 300 watts if you've been riding for 2 years and only managing 180-200. 

Might sound a bit overly harsh and I don't mean it like that. But you're talking about the pointy end of the stick when you're reaching past 300. 350-400 is ridiculous power. 400+ is superhuman.

I'm talking FTP (1 hour power) fwiw.


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## runabike

nightflame159 said:


> I want to be able to have this power as i calculated on a bike calculator site that to be able to go around 35kmh on flat with slight wind, id need to be in the 300ish watts range.


There are lots of riders (okay, not "lots", but it's not unheard of) on time trial bikes averaging 25+ mph for a 40k time trial with wattage in the 250-300 range. Aerodynamics is key for those scenarios, but it also shows that you can't just arbitrarily pick a speed and have it match up to some specific wattage. 

The real world doesn't work like that.


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## wesb321

nightflame159 said:


> I was thinking i could join a local bike club to learn these aspect...i just fear that if im not fit enough, i will get droped.



I'm in the cat 4's. I do about 20 races a year. I train the intervals, hill repeats, centuries etc.. etc.. . Getting dropped doesn't mean much. The little guys drop me on the tough climbs. The balls to the walls guys drop me on the big descends. On a Tuesday Worlds where sometimes the local P1 guys will show up I have only ever not got dropped once.. and then my chain broke and I got dropped hahaha. There are guys who started racing around the same time as me and are already about to upgrade to cat 2. This is life.

Don't fear the drop. I used to. Find a healthy and race minded group to ride with. Master drafting, pack rotation and handling skills. Learn to read what is going on around you, predict the surges and respond. Practice cornering, sprinting, jumps, hills and TT riding. Race with them, nothing better in a crit than being close to a guy whom you trust and know. The same for him I imagine as well.

I did very well in my last crit. 40 minutes I spent in the 3rd and 4th position. I was estatic and thinking to myself the whole time "this isn't **** compared to the Tuesday rides". The 1 and 2 position guys had dropped us all first lap and weren't going to be reeled in. My only talent in cycling is a not quitting. On the fast group rides when I get dropped all you have to do is stop and wait 5 minutes then here I come.

Don't fear the drop, it will make you stronger. There will always be better riders, this sport is about bettering yourself and having fun!


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## Undecided

wesb321 said:


> My only talent in cycling is a not quitting.


In cycling, and in life generally, that's a valuable trait.


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## spade2you

This thread reminds me of IPH (internet miles per hour). Ya hear lots of stories of guys doing a solo century with an average speed of 20mph+ and they're all non-racers. 

I agree that estimated wattages are a waste o' time. If power is the goal, get a real power meter.

If these were real power numbers, that kind of wattage for the weight is on the weaker side. I can generally hold those numbers at 120lbs. My ~40km ITT best has been ~24mph at ~200w, on a course that's not flat and is generally fairly windy. It's a fantasy of mine to ride a flat course with no wind. 

That sort of relative power gain could be done eventually. It would take a few years of training. Don't skimp on the recovery.


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## hrumpole

nightflame159 said:


> Hi guys, so heres my story made short..its my second summer riding my road bike just for fun.At the end of last summer i was averaging 23-25 kmh in my 2hours ride, 2-3 times a week at steady pace. Didnt ride the whole winter, did 2 months of interval training in the gym before this summer and when i sarted this year, i was averaging 28-29 kmh in the same 2hours ride. I was blown away by the increase in speed with only 2 months of training...but then i stoped the interval and came back to my last year routine of doing 2-3 rides of 2 hours at steady pace and my average speed as gone down to 25-26 kmh.
> 
> Now my question is...looking at my strava data, it says im riding at 180-200watts (i weight 200lbs)...i see those riding the same segment as me going at around 35kmh have watts around 300-350...if i do interval training the whole winter(7-8 months) is it realistic i could reach the same amount of power? also i want to drop my weight to 185lbs to help.


1. How long is the segment? Is it uphill?
2. Ignore power data from strava.
3. If that's correct, at 200 lbs, your w/kg is 2 per kilo. That is low. Your output is likely a lot higher, even for an hour (2.3 w/kg is on the low end of untrained). That's why you should ignore the strava estimates.
4. Depending on how you want to train, a wired Powertap can be found on ebay for 300 bucks. Power on the trainer via trainerroad can be had for ten bucks a month plus an ant stick (not as good as PT or similar, but pretty good), and if you have a Kurt Kinetic look into the inride.
5. If you don't want to do that, figure out how many hours a week you have to train. If not a lot (less than 8), then ride hard most of the time, easy some of the time, and long when you can. Rest when you start to get cranky. And make sure you ride with a group that drops you occasionally. The Carmichael plan is a good one for limited time.


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## FlatlandRoller

runabike said:


> First, the Strava power thing is a joke. Seriously. You should completely, 100% ignore it.
> 
> Second, you will very likely never even sniff 350 watts. Likely never sniff 300 watts if you've been riding for 2 years and only managing 180-200.
> 
> Might sound a bit overly harsh and I don't mean it like that. But you're talking about the pointy end of the stick when you're reaching past 300. 350-400 is ridiculous power. 400+ is superhuman.
> 
> I'm talking FTP (1 hour power) fwiw.


I think this is...unfortunately...pretty accurate. You're over 200# and under 30 years old so you have a decent chance of going over 300w for 1 hour but it's going to take some serious training and some time.


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## nightflame159

Im taking note of everything you guys said...i wont bother anymore with the strava power and ill ride as hard as i can when i can and try to gradually increase my milleage. I will focus on eating well and trying to loose uper mass to get my weight under 185-180lbs


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## fdghsrtws

'05 Suzuki DRZ400SM
awesome.


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