# Wheelsmith spoke prep or spoke freeze?



## 417477 (Aug 23, 2011)

Hey guys, so I'm starting to build more wheels for friends and family and was wondering what you wheel builders thought of the two. The shop I worked at used spoke freeze and linseed oil. Linseed was good for lightweight people but that's it. I had good luck with spoke freeze but it's more expensive. Any success with it or does one prefer the other?


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## Mike T. (Feb 3, 2004)

Spokes with sufficient tension don't need their nipples gluing in place. Try it! I use a dedicated thread lube that stays in place forever - anti-seize compound.


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## 417477 (Aug 23, 2011)

Any special brand of anti-seize?


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## Mike T. (Feb 3, 2004)

imiller said:


> Any special brand of anti-seize?


I would imagine all brands are just about the same but I use the stuff with an ironic name - Permatex. I guess the "perm" part comes from the fact that it doesn't go away like some lubes do.


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## rruff (Feb 28, 2006)

imiller said:


> Any special brand of anti-seize?


Tefgel. I take apart wheels with aluminum nipples and >20k miles and the threads are like new, and turn like butter.


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## Mike T. (Feb 3, 2004)

rruff said:


> Tefgel. I take apart wheels with aluminum nipples and >20k miles and the threads are like new, and turn like butter.


I've taken my mountain bike wheels apart (with alum nipples) after 4-5 years of muddy race and enduro events and the stuff is still there and the nipples spin off with the fingers. Maybe oil would still be there (I have my doubts) but I wouldn't know as I've never used anything but anti-seize.


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## 417477 (Aug 23, 2011)

Thanks guys! Miket I liked reading you're wheel building we page. I'm always looking to see what other people do as far as building wheels and what they have to say about it. Any other advice is much appreciated!


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## JCavilia (Sep 12, 2005)

Mike T. said:


> I would imagine all brands are just about the same but I use the stuff with an ironic name - Permatex. I guess the "perm" part comes from the fact that it doesn't go away like some lubes do.


The "Perm" part is just from the name of the company, and most of their products are adhesives or sealants of one kind or another. Kind of like the way some of the "Loctite" products don't "lock" very "tight."

Per the Permatex website, their very first product (1909) was a shellac for gluing tubular tires to bicycle rims.


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## Mike T. (Feb 3, 2004)

JCavilia said:


> The "Perm" part is just from the name of the company, and most of their products are adhesives or sealants of one kind or another.


Yep I'm aware of that and that's why I found the name ironic - that they market a product (and have for decades and my can is 4 decades old) that is as un-permanent as you can imagine, unless we consider its longevity.



> Per the Permatex website, their very first product (1909) was a shellac for gluing tubular tires to bicycle rims.


Now that I *didn't* know - and I used to use shellac for gluing on my track tubulars. Don't ask how long ago that was.


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## TomH (Oct 6, 2008)

After rebuilding someones complete hack job done with spoke freeze, I cringe a bit just reading the word. Like others, im all about anti seize for builds. It just seems to work better and make everything easier.


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## no_safe_HAVEN (Aug 26, 2012)

another vote for anti seize here.


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## Kerry Irons (Feb 25, 2002)

*Grease*



imiller said:


> Hey guys, so I'm starting to build more wheels for friends and family and was wondering what you wheel builders thought of the two. The shop I worked at used spoke freeze and linseed oil. Linseed was good for lightweight people but that's it. I had good luck with spoke freeze but it's more expensive. Any success with it or does one prefer the other?


I have used gresae for decades with essentially the same results as those who use anti-seize. Either way, if you need thread locker then there is something fishy going on.


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## CafeRoubaix (Sep 11, 2012)

Nothing wrong with spoke prep. What is more important is tension, IMO. I've used linseed and the wheels have stood up fine to heavy use, plus it is old school.

Never used spoke freeze, so I can't comment on that.


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## 417477 (Aug 23, 2011)

I used linseed oil and spoke freeze. I'm guessing with the linseed is I didn't de-tension the spokes enough so that's why they came loose on my friends wheels. They have been going strong on my commuter bike but I'm not thrashing them. I used spoke freeze on my mtn wheelset and have experienced "breaking" the threads free when truing them. I was pleased with how well it held just not the touching up part. I'm lucky and learned wheel building at a young age I'm only 25 and am looking forward to mastering it over the years to come.


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## pmt (Aug 4, 2009)

I'm old-school and use beeswax.


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## Enoch562 (May 13, 2010)

I do believe wheels can be built without any type of spoke prep that has a locking capabilities. Sometimes i use W/S spoke prep, sometimes Antiseeze,sometimes just a little oil. . Build with what you feel confident with. They all have thier plus and minus'. If it wasn't a issue why would Dt Swiss and Sapim be making nipples with built in locking mechnisms. 

I think sometimes spoke choice/ lacing patterns/ heavy or strong riders/ riding styles, can just cause spokes to come loose. I've seen properly built 3x MTB wheels that had light rims and light riders loosen spokes even though they were properly tensioned. They guy liked to jump alot on a XC type of rim. We eventualy had to locktite them down. No more problems. FWIW, I don't see as many road wheels loosen spokes as MTB wheels.


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## jnbrown (Dec 9, 2009)

I have used spoke prep on all my builds.
It is a little hard to apply it evenly so some nipples feel tight while others are loose.
One trick I learned on another post is to stretch a piece of inner tube over the the top of the bottle and secure it with rubber bands. Then poke a small hole in it. Push the threaded end of the spoke through the hole into the bottle and pull out. This method is fast and applies it as even as I can get it.
It also takes time to dry. Other than that the wheels turned out fine.
Another problem is if you ever take a wheel apart and reuse the spokes it is hard to clean off the old spoke prep. I have had to do this when I built a wheel wrong, or replaced a rim.
I might try anti seize or Tef Gel next time.


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## jnbrown (Dec 9, 2009)

rruff said:


> Tefgel. I take apart wheels with aluminum nipples and >20k miles and the threads are like new, and turn like butter.


I wonder if Tef Gel would be good for use on bolts? Maybe less messy than grease?
The stuff is expensive but a little probably goes a long way.


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## ergott (Feb 26, 2006)

Enoch562 said:


> If it wasn't a issue why would Dt Swiss and Sapim be making nipples with built in locking mechnisms.


Just something else to sell and they cost significantly more.


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## ergott (Feb 26, 2006)

My contribution to the thread. That's a trimmed down acid brush. Puts just enough anti-seize compound on the threads and no goopy mess.


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