# Little help.. New to power and WKO



## ZoSoSwiM (Mar 7, 2008)

I logged my first ride with my Powertap Pro+. Yesterday went well and I did a nice 20min test effort and established a starting point for my FTP. 

I've been reading "Racing and Training with a Power Meter" and understand many of the concepts. I've been riding a lot this year and have been using Sporttracks with the training load plugin to track my fitness. 

I see in WKO that I can set a starting point for my CTL and ATL in the performance manager chart.

The training load plugin uses TRIMP to figure out my training load. 
Currently Sporttracks is showing my CTL as 61 and my ATL as 59. I know these numbers are estimates but if I were to set my starting values in WKO to those numbers would it be a good starting point? After yesterdays ride WKO is showing a TSB -18 which I know is wrong. 

Obviously since I've been training a lot all year I have a decent training load. 

I plan on doing more formal indoor testing next week along with fatigue testing and such as recommended by the book. 

I'm racing in a Criterium this weekend in Watkins Glen, NY so I should have some interesting data to check out!

So.. What do you guys and gals suggest?


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## stevesbike (Jun 3, 2002)

it depends on what you mean by training a lot (a ctl of 61 isn't that high). To check if it's accurate, take the #hours/week you train, divide it by 7 to get time/day you train, then multiply that by 50. If that number is close to 60 then use that, but if it's substantially higher than 60 I would use it (since multiplying hours/day training x 50 results in a lower end estimate of CTL).


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## ZoSoSwiM (Mar 7, 2008)

Well the training load plugin changed my whole chart when I adjusted my heart rate zones. I was higher before.

I tried plugging the numbers in for a starting point but it messed up the whole graph. I'm just going to start from scratch and get some clean data from here on out.

One thing for certain.. It's hard to hold a steady power.. Keeping a steady 30second average wattage is easier.


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## stevesbike (Jun 3, 2002)

you may want to adjust the display setting for power - a 2 second averaging makes the display a bit more steady (whatever software you use for setting up things should have different display options). I would still put in some initial ctl values - it's probably correcting the graph more than messing it up. By the way, the new edition of the Coggan/Allen book is worth it - lots of new useful info in it.


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## ZoSoSwiM (Mar 7, 2008)

I'm using a Garmin 705 on my bike.. I rode with 30 second averaging today and it was an easier time holding that steady than trying to hold a steady 1 second reading..

The new Coggan/Allen book is great. I've learned a lot so far and I'm only 1/3 of the way through it.

You think setting a number of say 100 or so just to get something in there for CTL might help? I've been riding over 8+ hours a week since March... today was 62 days straight on the bike.. With active recovery days in there as well.


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## ZoSoSwiM (Mar 7, 2008)

No matter how I do it I get whacked out totals for my current levels. Hmm... How to doctor this up..


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## Alex_Simmons/RST (Jan 12, 2008)

ZoSoSwiM said:


> No matter how I do it I get whacked out totals for my current levels. Hmm... How to doctor this up..


Depends on how relatively hard those 8 hours are.

Put in 55-60 for CTL. Maybe a bit more for ATL but doesn't matter that much. After 2-3 months the data will converge to something realistic. The better your initial guesstimates, the faster that will happen.


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## ZoSoSwiM (Mar 7, 2008)

I just put my last month of riding without power into WKO. Then I used the TRIMP numbers from the training load plugin. I set my initial values to 60 and 65. Now the chart looks a little better. 

Some of my rides were extremely hard.. my active recovery rides are very easy.. lots of variety over those hours. 

I think it's a decent starting point now.. Once I have a few months of data it'll be cleared up like you just said. After I have a few months in should I clear those initial values since they'll be irrelevant by then?


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## ZoSoSwiM (Mar 7, 2008)

Hmmm.. still doesn't look right. For peace of mind I'm just starting fresh with no data prior to getting my Powertap. Easier in the end.


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## ukbloke (Sep 1, 2007)

ZoSoSwiM said:


> I'm using a Garmin 705 on my bike.. I rode with 30 second averaging today and it was an easier time holding that steady than trying to hold a steady 1 second reading..


I find 30 second averaging to be too extreme. It may seem easy to hold a steady long-term average, but you have very little insight into what is actually going on second by second. I also found no averaging to be a little like watching lottery numbers, and hard to draw any conclusion - I would tend to run an averaging algorithm in my head to make sense of it, and that's too hard! Also because of the way the PowerTap works you really need some averaging to avoid sampling problems. I compromised on 3 second averaging on the PowerTap CPU. Something in the range of 2 to 5 seconds seems reasonable to me, though it does depend on what you are trying to achieve.

30 seconds would be fine for a flat consistent time-trial effort or possibly for some types of interval where you are looking at targeting a specific power number. However, I found this setting much less interesting for short intervals where you are working on peak wattage and sprints. I also find that a short averaging period really keeps me in touch with what's going on right then and there. A common scenario for me is slight changes in grade on a timed climb. I often see myself under-shooting on power when the grade lets up, and then over-shooting, sometimes massively, when the grade steepens again. I use the near instantaneous feedback to keep the power consistent over variable grade. Another similar situation is cresting over a hill or roller where you can be lulled into a pathetic amount of watts without realizing it. Getting quick feedback allows you to recover from that back up to your target watts. If you have 30 second averaging you'll lose a lot of that detail.

Perhaps on the Garmin you can set up two fields - one for current power (with 2-5 second averaging), and one for lap power? I think this would be the perfect compromise.


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## ZoSoSwiM (Mar 7, 2008)

I currently have Power, 30sec, and power zone on my main page. I'll try 3 second ave tomorrow instead and see how it feels. 

I don't do a lot of lap stuff yet so I'll hold off on that for now. Once I have a better grasp on this I'll do my intervals while taking advantage of the lap feature.

I used the lap feature yesterday to start and end my 20 minute time trial. Worked fairly well!

Thanks for the input!


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## ukbloke (Sep 1, 2007)

ZoSoSwiM said:


> I used the lap feature yesterday to start and end my 20 minute time trial. Worked fairly well!


Laps are awesome for timed efforts, even when the effort or route segment is somewhat informal rather than a well-defined interval. For example, hit lap at the bottom of the hill and then hit lap at the top. You get your split time and SportTracks will give you markers to clearly delineate your effort in the charts.


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## Alex_Simmons/RST (Jan 12, 2008)

ZoSoSwiM said:


> Hmmm.. still doesn't look right. For peace of mind I'm just starting fresh with no data prior to getting my Powertap. Easier in the end.


It sounds like you have a preconceived notion of how it's supposed to look.


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## ZoSoSwiM (Mar 7, 2008)

Not really but sort of. I put in estimated TSS scores for 30 days of rides. I set a starting point 60. After 2 days riding with power it still thought I had a TSB of like 30. If I adjusted the initial levels it would never level out.
I was on a rest week last week so I shouldn't be very far into the negative ranges.. but there is no way I could be in the +30's now.


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## stevesbike (Jun 3, 2002)

I think you're overthinking it - just plug in a starting value that you think is a decent estimate of your daily training load. Use the same number for ATL and CTL so not to skew TSB and use the defaults for the constants and then start entering your ride data and go from there.


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