# Pinarello FP3 Compared to Prince



## sbthaut

I would guess that a few of you Prince owners despise the idea of the FP3 watering down the greatness of your bike, but I hope I can get some objective responses here. I am looking to get a new ride in the next month or so and the Prince has been the bike of my dreams.

Considering that I am nothing more than an enthusiast rider, who hopes to do well in the large local rides but really will never be a serious contender, 5,500.00 for a frameset regretfully seems a bit over kill to me. From what I can gather, the only differences between the two frames is about 110 grams (heavier carbon) and some stiffening ribs. I have been meticulous about swapping out the standard components on the FP3 for full SRAM Red and similar components found on a Prince. Weighing everything out has given me a sub 16 lb bike (although I don't know the weight difference between the fork on the FP3 from the Prince and a few other minor things like the headset). 

Will a guy at my riding level and healthy wieght of 190lbs. (additional drivetrain flex at my weight?) notice a difference between the two bikes? Has anyone here demo'd both of them? 

Thanks!


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## proy

As a recent Prince owner who almost purchased an FP3 I feel somewhat qualified to comment on this topic.

I have no doubt that the FP3 is by far the better value for money bike. Slightly heavier and slightly less carbon weave strength makes no difference to all but the elite riders.

I think it comes down to your psychological mindset / emotional motivation in buying the bike. I bought mine as a 40th birthday present to myself. In short, I wanted to get the best. Therefore, I got the Prince. Sure, I paid the price but in the absence of that, I would have been left with an emotional vacuum that in time would undoubtedly have been filled by me upgrading from the FP3 to the Prince and actually spending more money than had I bought the Prince in the first place. Color scheme is also important and may help you make a decision.

In short, if your decision is primarily functional, I'd say go for the FP3.


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## Thom_y

sbthaut said:


> Has anyone here demo'd both of them?
> 
> Thanks!


I have never rode either, but was seriously looking at the Prince and FP3 in October to replace my crashed-up R3. (I don't race). 

The guy at La Bicicletta in Toronto which is a big Pinarello dealer (also has online store as well) used to own and race a Prince and he switched to a FP3 last season. He said he likes to try to ride all the frames in their store to have some perspective for customers. But, in the end he switched out his Prince for the orange FP3 as he said he could not tell a significant difference between them to justify the price difference. 

Of course, like the other responder, as I am turning 50 this summer and have an insurance check to buy the bike, I didn't want to consider the FP3 as much. Plus, as you said, the paint schemes can sometimes make your mind up, although the finish of the FP3 is fairly comparable to the Prince. In the end, I think I am going with a Cento Uno (which is also cheaper than a Prince). Just thought it was interesting to hear this guy try to sell me down to the FP3, even though he could have easily made a bigger sale.


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## the genie

...The eternal battle of reason vs. emotion. It appears you've made up your mind already, to accept a 95% solution for a far lower, proportionally speaking, cost. A sensible and reasonable decision that will bring you much enjoyment when out there riding the FP3.

To those of us for whom 100% is the only answer, reason is irrelevant. Passion and emotion drives our logic, or lack of, compelling us to think about nothing else but how are we going to get our hands on what we view as the best bike made so far. So what if the Prince can easily cost five figures...

Those of us, again, who do have a Prince, are twice thrilled wen finding out that it exceeds all hype and expectations. Every time I ride it I realize what a truly exceptional piece it is.


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## sbthaut

I appreciate you guys all weighing in on this. You are right, my FP3 is on order and I pick it up next week. Part of me felt woefully unworthy to be riding such a fine bike as the Prince too. I feel like if I can really improve my game by taking the money saved and investing in a power meter that maybe my next purchase will be a Prince. 

On top of that, Its got to be somewhat dissapointing to have the best bike money can buy and know there is nothing better out there to lust after! Your comments were much appreciated!


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## tomato

You could ride an FP7 and split the difference. 46HM3K carbon as opposed to 30HM12K. Surprised no one has picked up on this model although this might be because it is Japan only. Not sure.

http://www.riogrande.co.jp/modules/ctnews/view.php?p=136
(warning Japanese fonts)


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## ewitz

I had a PRince from Competitive Cyclist through their demo program for two weeks.

Ddi not want to ship a bike to where I was vacationing and this was a cost effective way to try a new different bike for a extended period. I was very underwhelmed by the Prince.

I have both a 585 and a VXRS, either of which I would choose over a Prince.


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## sbthaut

tomato said:


> You could ride an FP7 and split the difference. 46HM3K carbon as opposed to 30HM12K. Surprised no one has picked up on this model although this might be because it is Japan only. Not sure.
> 
> http://www.riogrande.co.jp/modules/ctnews/view.php?p=136
> (warning Japanese fonts)



Yeah there is an FP6, but its the same carbon (except for the outside carbon weave which is just aesthetics) as the FP3 and its 3000.00 just for the frameset and mirrors the Paris geometry instead of the Prince. I even thought about the Paris but I still think the FP3 will be snappier in the corners and faster off the line than the Paris. Not to mention they don't make the Paris anymore.

The FP7 looks incredible, but not available this year in the states...


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## proy

sbthaut said:


> The FP7 looks incredible, but not available this year in the states...


I mostly agree but I'm really not diggin' that paint scheme.


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## Thom_y

The Pez cycling test of the FP3

http://www.pezcyclingnews.com/?pg=fullstory&id=6743&status=True&catname=Latest%20News


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## sbthaut

Thom_y said:


> The Pez cycling test of the FP3
> 
> http://www.pezcyclingnews.com/?pg=fullstory&id=6743&status=True&catname=Latest%20News



Ahhh, see that was kind of the review I was afraid to read... His take could be summed up with one word "meh". 

The Prince is heralded as the be all end all of race bikes (I understand not everyone takes this view), and I would have expected that given the minor differences between the two bikes, the reaction from riders would be elation given the vastly more affordable price tag. I feel like we should also keep in mind that for a bike that's just under 4k, I would hardly consider that entry level. Sounds like the component mix also has a lot to do with his feelings of the bike, a better wheelset can make all the difference in the world. I did love all the close up shots of the bike, the blue is quite striking.


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## Thom_y

I suspect if Pez would have switched out the wheels for something much better, the review would have been much better. The first thing I was told at La Bicicletta, get rid of those wheels. As I said, the guy really felt the bike with decent wheels was not significantly inferior to the Prince.


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## shachah7

The stock wheels on the FP3 - most chall - are listed on pinarello's website as being 1500odd grams. I'm not sure if this is a mistake or if skewers havent been included. If correct, quite a decent weight for "average" aluminium clinchers.


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## sbthaut

Thinking about throwing these wheels on http://www.eastonbike.com/PRODUCTS/WHEELS/09/wheel_ec90_aero_'09.html I know they are horrible in the wet, but they seem to be incredible otherwise. I'm a heavier rider in the 190's, and I was wondering if any of you knew if these wheels had a weight limit or not? Also they are really light sub 1400g for the pair, and they will obviously do well in the flats, but will they climb well also? Does anyone know if I should have problems using them as both my training wheel and race wheel?


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## elviento

As with most premium products, the higher end model is typically just marginally better than the lower end model but much more costly. Guess what, that is the way premium products are. 

I mean, a CAAD9 with Ulegra will serve the purposes of most of us here very well, but we still go for something nicer. I drive a 100K car. Believe me, it's not TWICE as nice nice as a 50K car. But I like it and what the hell. 

I have not compared the two models, but I have ridden enough Pinarellos to know they are solid nice bikes. So if cost is an issue, get the FP3. I suspect you will be very happy with it.


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## nicensleazy

To be honest, I'm not that sure on the NEW FP series. The new FP6 uses a lower spec carbon then the Paris and I think going down the line up, they are not great value for money, I think you are paying for the name Pinarello. In short, I would say, buy a Paris if you can find one. If you have got the money, buy a Prince! Also, there was a thread on here about a lower spec Pinarello, the frame snapped!


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## sbthaut

I finally picked up my FP3. Changed out a lot to start, still need to replace the saddle, stem, seat post and brakes. Right now without pedals it weighs in at 16.2 lbs. Hope to be sub 16 when I am finished. Its not a Prince, but I couldn't be happier!!


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## shachah7

Nice looking ride - same colour as my FP3 sbhaut. Its a very nice ride. Do you happen to know how much lighter your mavics are compared to the stock most chall wheels? Please post updated pics as you add new components.

Enjoy the ride.


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## sbthaut

shachah7 said:


> Nice looking ride - same colour as my FP3 sbhaut. Its a very nice ride. Do you happen to know how much lighter your mavics are compared to the stock most chall wheels? Please post updated pics as you add new components.
> 
> Enjoy the ride.


Thanks for the comment, I was pretty torn between this and the white and orange, but ultimately I thought the components would be tough to match up, and I actually purchased the 105 bike (which doesn't come in Orange) since I would be swapping out all the components anyway so this bike came with the R500 wheelset. On Gita the Chall wheels come in at 1580 grams which is actually pretty light for that wheel set. Then again, they have the Lynx Crankset listed at 6610 grams (guessing one too many 6's, which means a very light crankset too) so who knows how accurate the information is. My Mavic's come in at 1485 grams.


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## iridepinarello

*I have both, AND...*

I think i can speak from experience on this one. I have both a new FP3 and Prince. The FP3 has all DA 7900 and the PRINCE is pure Campy Super Record 11. I've used the same wheels on both bikes in order to run side by side tests.

The prince clearly rides "better" than the FP3, but that's not to say there's anything wrong with the FP3. It corners better, feels more responsive, etc.

That said, and as was stated before, I just wanted to go 100% and get the Prince. I don't regret it at all. 

I'm going to be selling my FP3 and getting another Prince.

Good luck.


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## nicensleazy

From my experience, there are ONLY two frames I would consider purchasing from the Pinarello collection, Prince and Paris. Both frames are constructed from high quality carbon. In fact, I actually own a Paris and spent a weekend on the Prince and there wasn't that much difference! If you can't afford a Prince or Paris then I would perhaps look at another brand, just think you will get much better value for money. But, I have just bought an EPS which is (in my opinion) better then the Prince. I don't mind the melted frame and forks look on the Pinarello, its something different. However, it does nothing for performance or comfort on a Carbon frame. As with the EPS, its just built for speeeeeeeeed!


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## sbthaut

nicensleazy said:


> From my experience, there are ONLY two frames I would consider purchasing from the Pinarello collection, Prince and Paris. Both frames are constructed from high quality carbon. In fact, I actually own a Paris and spent a weekend on the Prince and there wasn't that much difference! If you can't afford a Prince or Paris then I would perhaps look at another brand, just think you will get much better value for money. But, I have just bought an EPS which is (in my opinion) better then the Prince. I don't mind the melted frame and forks look on the Pinarello, its something different. However, it does nothing for performance or comfort on a Carbon frame. As with the EPS, its just built for speeeeeeeeed!


Yeeeah, you mentioned that earlier in this post, and its not a lower quality/grade carbon its just slightly heavier in order to gain the same strength as the 50hm. The 30hm carbon is just as strong, but it requires more carbon to get it there. Not to mention they both use Torayca carbon fiber, arguably one of the highest grade carbon fibers available. The FP3 is a bit more flexible, as the Prince does have some stiffening ribs, but the question is whether a rider at my level will even notice a difference?? But to suggest this bike is crap because of some some reason other than your unspecified experience is total garbage! I am completely aware that the Prince is a better bike than the FP3, I would never argue that, but I have spent enough hours researching this bike to know that I have a solid ride for the money. Pinarello is a target because they tell you what carbon they used on the frame... Its almost impossible to find that information on other brands if you are to compare apples to apples. Glad you enjoy your your EPS, Colnago's are incredible rides... but I am not comparing my FP3 to that either... now comparing it to the CLX would be more appropriate something I weighed heavily when making a decision.


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## nicensleazy

Enjoy my friend! Both Pinarello and Colnago are jewels in the Italian crown of bike makers!


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## shachah7

sbthaut said:


> Yeeeah, you mentioned that earlier in this post, and its not a lower quality/grade carbon its just slightly heavier in order to gain the same strength as the 50hm. The 30hm carbon is just as strong, but it requires more carbon to get it there. Not to mention they both use Torayca carbon fiber, arguably one of the highest grade carbon fibers available. The FP3 is a bit more flexible, as the Prince does have some stiffening ribs, but the question is whether a rider at my level will even notice a difference?? But to suggest this bike is crap because of some some reason other than your unspecified experience is total garbage! I am completely aware that the Prince is a better bike than the FP3, I would never argue that, but I have spent enough hours researching this bike to know that I have a solid ride for the money. Pinarello is a target because they tell you what carbon they used on the frame... Its almost impossible to find that information on other brands if you are to compare apples to apples. Glad you enjoy your your EPS, Colnago's are incredible rides... but I am not comparing my FP3 to that either... now comparing it to the CLX would be more appropriate something I weighed heavily when making a decision.


FP3 is definitely not in the same league as the Prince or EPS - pro peleton bikes. Having said that, I will say that it comes close. It is a case of diminishing returns when it comes to weight, stiffness, handling and impact on the heart.

The CLX is typically a colnago... more comfy, fast and dependable but not like the FP3 which is asking to be riden hard all the time. Slightly different in typical colnago vs pinarello fashion.


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## maximum7

My friend who rides a F3:13 was thinking of upgrading to the FP3. He wasn't very impressed. It was a pound lighter, but he said it felt no better than his 3:13. He tried out a Look 566 just for kicks, and said it was completely different. Snappy, quick, and felt lighter even though it was within a 1/4 pound and had heavier wheels. 
Now he's torn as he really likes being a Pin owner. He's considering the FP6, but nobody has one to test.


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## sbthaut

shachah7 said:


> Nice looking ride - same colour as my FP3 sbhaut. Its a very nice ride. Do you happen to know how much lighter your mavics are compared to the stock most chall wheels? Please post updated pics as you add new components.
> 
> Enjoy the ride.


So I have done some upgrading: Here's where I am at currently: SRAM Red drive train, FSA K-Wing Handlebar, FSA CSI Stem, TRP 950 SL Brake Set, Ksyrium SL Wheelset, Look KEO Sprint Pedals, FSA K-Force Lite Seat Post, Selle Italia SLR Kit Carbino Pro, Look Carbon Cage. It currently weighs in at 16.21 lbs and I have a few more areas to cut.


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## Snakebitten

^^Gorgeous bike SB....I like the upgrades. How do you like the K-Wing? I went with the Plasma on my cheap build along with the same look pedals. I cant see anyone but the most anal racer not loving this bike. Enjoy


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## shachah7

sbthaut said:


> So I have done some upgrading: Here's where I am at currently: SRAM Red drive train, FSA K-Wing Handlebar, FSA CSI Stem, TRP 950 SL Brake Set, Ksyrium SL Wheelset, Look KEO Sprint Pedals, FSA K-Force Lite Seat Post, Selle Italia SLR Kit Carbino Pro, Look Carbon Cage. It currently weighs in at 16.21 lbs and I have a few more areas to cut.


Nice looking upgrades mate  Do you feel much difference in performance? What length stem is that FSA? Cheers.


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## spawn350

Where the frame is made matters to me. Is the FP3 made in Taiwan or Italy?


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## maximum7

> Where the frame is made matters to me. Is the FP3 made in Taiwan or Italy?


It shouldn't. 
It's made in Taiwan. 
Only the Dogma, Prince and possibly the Paris, are made in Italy.


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## rhauft

*not exactly...*



maximum7 said:


> It shouldn't.
> It's made in Taiwan. Only the Dogma, Prince and possibly the Paris, are made in Italy.


The fact is, no European bike manufacturer produces monocoque carbon fiber frames in Europe, including Colnago & Pinarello. Colnago's monocoque frames are made in China. Only their tube & lug carbon frames are "assembled in Italy". The tubes are Asian C/F.
Of the 3 frames you mentioned, only the Dogma is 100% "made in Italy"
All monocoque Pinas including Prince, Paris, FP7, 6,5,3 etc are made of Japanese Torray carbon fiber, laid up in Taiwan, shipped back to Treviso for finish work, paint, graphics, decals. FWIW, they are Italian molds. It's a world economy folks. The Prince & Paris are still the best bikes I've ever ridden regardless of birth place.


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## sbthaut

rhauft said:


> The fact is, no European bike manufacturer produces monocoque carbon fiber frames in Europe, including Colnago & Pinarello. Colnago's monocoque frames are made in China. Only their tube & lug carbon frames are "assembled in Italy". The tubes are Asian C/F.
> Of the 3 frames you mentioned, only the Dogma is 100% "made in Italy"
> All monocoque Pinas including Prince, Paris, FP7, 6,5,3 etc are made of Japanese Torray carbon fiber, laid up in Taiwan, shipped back to Treviso for finish work, paint, graphics, decals. FWIW, they are Italian molds. It's a world economy folks. The Prince & Paris are still the best bikes I've ever ridden regardless of birth place.


You are correct sir...


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## sbthaut

90mm Stem and the bike feels so much more responsive and snappy off the line, not to mention I feel much more comfortable on the shorter stem. I may step into a nicer wheelset sometime later in the season but its hard to find any complaints as is!


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## spawn350

*Disappointing*

I am disappointed to learn that the Prince is laid up in Taiwan. I didn't mind that they got the carbon fiber from Japan, but it is the actual making of the frame that I care about. I would personally rather have a bike that didn't perform quite as well, but was hand made at an artisan shop that has a real passion for bikes than a bike that performed better but was made by folks with no heritage that just wanted a job.

That concept applies to watches, and watch collectors understand it very well. A Timex will tell better time than a Breguet, but the value of the watch isn't in the accuracy of the time it tells, but in the heritage and way it was built.

When I bought my Prince I had thought it was made in Italy. Too bad.


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## rhauft

spawn350 said:


> I am disappointed to learn that the Prince is laid up in Taiwan. I didn't mind that they got the carbon fiber from Japan, but it is the actual making of the frame that I care about. I would personally rather have a bike that didn't perform quite as well, but was hand made at an artisan shop that has a real passion for bikes than a bike that performed better but was made by folks with no heritage that just wanted a job.
> 
> That concept applies to watches, and watch collectors understand it very well. A Timex will tell better time than a Breguet, but the value of the watch isn't in the accuracy of the time it tells, but in the heritage and way it was built.
> 
> When I bought my Prince I had thought it was made in Italy. Too bad.


Steel is real, and you can still find very nice examples made in Italy. But if you're looking for a state of the art monocoque carbon fiber frame, 
Not so much.

If you research, you'll discover that state of the art monocoque carbon fiber technology is not coming out of europe. Asia is the epicenter in c/f engineering. In order for any of the traditional european "artison shops" like Pinarello, Colnago, Willier, Fondriest, Bianchi, Orbea, Look, Time etc. they will have to partner with an Asian contractor. The best carbon fiber is made in Japan by Torayca and laid up in Taiwan by Pinarello (and its partners).


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## spawn350

You mentioned something that I wanted to address: Look bikes. Doesn't Look make all their own carbon frames, which are supposedly pretty good?

How about Parlee/Edge - aren't those bikes pretty much the best you can stick your behind on?

Why is China supposedly leading the way in CF technology?

It's funny, I have had a bunch of US titanium and carbon bikes, but wanted an Italian carbon bike. Oh well.


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## ewitz

rhauft said:


> Steel is real, and you can still find very nice examples made in Italy. But if you're looking for a state of the art monocoque carbon fiber frame,
> Not so much.
> 
> If you research, you'll discover that state of the art monocoque carbon fiber technology is not coming out of europe. Asia is the epicenter in c/f engineering. In order for any of the traditional european "artison shops" like Pinarello, Colnago, Willier, Fondriest, Bianchi, Orbea, Look, Time etc. they will have to partner with an Asian contractor. The best carbon fiber is made in Japan by Torayca and laid up in Taiwan by Pinarello (and its partners).


That is predicated on the notion that the best cabon fibre frames are monocoque.

LOOK makes their frames in their own factory in Tunisia and finishes them at their facility in France.

Time weaves their own carbon then uses that to make their frames in France.

Both company's top of the line offerings are tube and lug construction and are ar least as good if not better than any monocoque frames.


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## rhauft

spawn350 said:


> You mentioned something that I wanted to address: Look bikes. Doesn't Look make all their own carbon frames, which are supposedly pretty good?
> 
> How about Parlee/Edge - aren't those bikes pretty much the best you can stick your behind on?
> 
> Why is China supposedly leading the way in CF technology?
> 
> It's funny, I have had a bunch of US titanium and carbon bikes, but wanted an Italian carbon bike. Oh well.


Look, Time and Parlee are all excellent brands but none of them are monochoque construction = 1 piece mold. They are tube & lug, then bonded together. This process enables them to purchase their carbon from outside contractors and build them "in house". This is how Colnago constructs their high end carbon also. This is no different than how steel & alloy bikes are manufactured, purchasing Columbus, Dedecici, Reynolds etc. tubes and building them to spec. Only the materials have changed. As far as I know, the only bike manufacturers that make their own c/f are Trek & Time. I'm sure their are probably others. Name me a builder that smelts their own steel?

Pinarello chose to partner with Torayaca, arguably the highest grade of c/f available in the world. They wanted access to the state of the art in materials, design & technology. That could not be achieved in house. Pinarello has always used outside contractors to achieve their goal of a state of the art design. They are more of a design studio than a traditional manufacturer. If that doesn't suite your fancy then their are plenty of other choices to suite your needs. For me, there is only one choice - Pinarello :thumbsup:


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## rhauft

ewitz said:


> That is predicated on the notion that the best cabon fibre frames are monocoque.
> LOOK makes their frames in their own factory in Tunisia and finishes them at their facility in France.
> Time weaves their own carbon then uses that to make their frames in France.
> Both company's top of the line offerings are tube and lug construction and are ar least as good if not better than any monocoque frames.


Absolutely, if Look, Time, Calfee or Joe's Carbon Boutique & Bicycle Emporium suites your needs and fits you best then all power to you. 

Personally, I've been sold on Pinarello ever since my team visited their shop in Treviso in the late 80's getting fit for new team bikes. 
Since then I have returned to Treviso many times to visit the house of Pinarello. I've sat with Fausto Pinarello over espresso and brain-stormed custom paint schemes & designs for my next dream bike. Decades have passed and dozen's of steel, scandium, magnesium and carbon bikes later, I am still a true believer in the Pinarello brand... where ever it's actually made.:thumbsup: YMMV


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## tjjm36m3

I personally prefer monocoque frames better than frames that are made combination of CF tubes bounded to titanium or steel fittings. The transfer of loads from one part of the bike to another are just more responsive. 

I would have to agree that Taiwan is a leader in CF monocoque frames, though not too sure about China. You wouldn't imagine the technology behind in making a monocoque frame. Prepreging the CF with resin is one thing, but having these weaves and weaves of CF specifically cut off to form the shape of the frame without any voids, especially at the seams, is extremely difficult. Also creating the mold for the frame is very time consuming and expensive and needs a lot of engineering behind it. Without experience, the result of a frame coming out of an autoclave would have voids, contamination, etc. Improving processes and technology only comes with years and years of experience in producing CF frames and that's exactly how Taiwan got to where it is today. 

One thing about monoque frames-- the initial cost of creating the tooling and mold are extremely expensive. But after the tooling are in place, the next duplicate builds are just a fraction of the initial cost. I wouldn't be surprised if the initial mold and tooling for the prince to be upwards of at least $200,000, this including all the engineering design/analysis cost to create the mold. The design and analysis of the actual frame might be quite more. From what I read, the Prince took 3 years of design and simulation with CAD and FEA softwares to create the optimum frame with one of the strongest carbon fiber in the world. I'm not advertising for Pinarello. I personally prefer a titanium frame myself.


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## shachah7

tjjm36m3 said:


> I personally prefer monocoque frames better than frames that are made combination of CF tubes bounded to titanium or steel fittings. The transfer of loads from one part of the bike to another are just more responsive.
> 
> I would have to agree that Taiwan is a leader in CF monocoque frames, though not too sure about China. You wouldn't imagine the technology behind in making a monocoque frame. Prepreging the CF with resin is one thing, but having these weaves and weaves of CF specifically cut off to form the shape of the frame without any voids, especially at the seams, is extremely difficult. Also creating the mold for the frame is very time consuming and expensive and needs a lot of engineering behind it. Without experience, the result of a frame coming out of an autoclave would have voids, contamination, etc. Improving processes and technology only comes with years and years of experience in producing CF frames and that's exactly how Taiwan got to where it is today.
> 
> One thing about monoque frames-- the initial cost of creating the tooling and mold are extremely expensive. But after the tooling are in place, the next duplicate builds are just a fraction of the initial cost. I wouldn't be surprised if the initial mold and tooling for the prince to be upwards of at least $200,000, this including all the engineering design/analysis cost to create the mold. The design and analysis of the actual frame might be quite more. From what I read, the Prince took 3 years of design and simulation with CAD and FEA softwares to create the optimum frame with one of the strongest carbon fiber in the world. I'm not advertising for Pinarello. I personally prefer a titanium frame myself.


People should really be focussing more on the engineering than place of manufacture. After all a bike is a machine and the better machine will always be the one with more elegant and efficient engineering solutions. 

Couple that with companies with years of experience like pinarello and colnago who know the nuances and properties required to make a great bike, you will stand a good chance of not only getting a well engineered bike but a bike with great character and personality.

In terms chassis, monocoque has greater potential that tube and lug. The homogeneous structure of a monocoque frame is inherently stiffer and better at transfering loads. Every time you introduce joints - tube and lug - you will add weight to achieve the same strength and stiffness characteristics.

If you care about country about manufacture then the material should be a metal - steel, titanium and magnesium. As these days taiwan is leading the way in carbon fibre manufacture of bikes.... but not necessarily the engineering which is the more difficult and crucial part.


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## shachah7

Did you finish lightening the bike mate? Any pics of final build.

What size is that frame btw? Cheers mate.


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## sbthaut

I added Nokon cables, which were an incredible upgrade for my SRAM Red, but other than that nothing special. The plan is to upgrade the wheelset this spring and I think that will be it for this year. Hoping this fall to pick up a new Dogma... The frame is a 55


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## sbthaut

*FP3 vs. Quattro*

Hey guys,

Quick question for you. I own the 2009 FP3 that is in the pictures above. I rode it for the 2009 season, but in 2010 I was sidelined because of a knee injury. Consequently, I am salivating to get going for 2011 but I am thinking about upgrading to a new ride.

Question1: Would it be much of an upgrade to get the new Quattro, and if so, would you go with SRAM Force/Rival build or the Campy Athena components?

Question 2: How much do you think a fair price would be to sell the bike I have above? It is fitted with:Full SRAM Red drive train, FSA K-Wing Handlebar, FSA CSI Stem, TRP 950 SL Brake Set, Ksyrium SL Wheelset, Look KEO Sprint Pedals, FSA K-Force Lite Seat Post, Selle Italia SLR Kit Carbino Pro, Nokon Cables.

Ball park figures for a 2 year old bike?


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## lsulit

Just purchased an FP Quattro and waiting for it for arrive. I was really close to buying a 2009 FP3 with DuraAce build (a lot because of the paint scheme). However, I caught a glance at the Quattro in the LBS and was intrigued.

After discussions with the LBS and other online sources, it was pretty consistent from others experiences that there was a noticable difference in ride quality between the two, especially out of the saddle. 

Hope this helps


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