# Lesson Teaching Thread:



## heythorp (Feb 17, 2005)

I started road riding about 10 years ago. One of the first things a friend of mine told me was to make sure I don't pedal in turns.

Made a lot of sense to me and almost to a point of being fearful I stayed clear of it. 

Then comes yesterday. I was coming down 84 from Skyline to Woodside. I do this many times a week. Like many other times I had a car in front of me and I was just riding a casual pace going down.

Then whack, wait what is going on? Umm WTF, no its OK I got this I am going to ride out of this. BAM on my ass sliding across the ground. 

Man did I hit hard as I landed first on my tailbone and then slid on my right side. 

For some dumb ass reason I did a lazy pedal as I was going around a bend in the road. Not sure why I did this. 

This is the first time I have crashed a road bike in over 40,000 miles. This was totally preventable (as I believe almost all crashes are) and I think that what bugs me most. I knew not to do this, I never do this and yet for some reason I let the cranks turn over at the worst moment possible. 

I am OK and for the most part just some road rash and a sore tailbone. Nothing is broken and I didn't hit my head. I was probably going 30+ and there were a few times last night I realized how lucky I was. There are plenty of horrible stories across the internet where it ended much worse. 

It is truly amazing how much the body will take. 

Thanks to the driver who stopped behind me and waited to make sure I was OK and thanks to CHL for driving me home. 

Not sure about the bike right now. (I know everyone wants to know)

Please share other "common sense" bike wisdom to bring the thoughts back to the forefront of our brains. With how many hours we are on our bikes its pretty easy to become complacent out there.


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## ShaneW (Sep 6, 2008)

Glad you are mostly ok! What time did this happen? I went up OLH and descended 84 yesterday and saw some carnage with a CHP waving me to slow down etc. I didnt really see what was going on though, might have been you!


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## rhauft (Aug 8, 2006)

Glad you are alright. Descending is one of the joys of cycling and I try to always focus on staying in the moment. I've been hit from behind going 50+ mph and that's not something I would wish on anybody.

*My lesson:*
I was climbing Mt Diablo last week solo. Got about .5K from the summit when I heard and felt the unmistakeable sound of a spoke blowing on my rear wheel. Unfortunately for me, I was on my Rolf Elans with minimal spokes so this was a catastrophic failure and I was dead in the water at 4000 feet.
Took me about an hour to hitch a ride to Walnut Creek Bart and then a $35.00 taxi ride to my door. Moral of the story, Without my credit card I would have been screwed. No rangers on the weekends and no traffic either, Thank god for that nice elderly couple from Oregon or I would have been mountain lion bait.


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## CHL (Jun 24, 2005)

I think we were descending Hwy84 around 11:30AM. This type of stuff always occurs when you least expect it. Heythorp and I went down some ungodly one lane road that led to a gate with a huge sign of the Native Sons of the Golden West. 

If an incident should have occurred, it would have been on that road that was poorly paved and full of debris. It was so cold during the descent that I grabbed my front rim for warmth (that's how much I was riding the brakes). 

Glad to hear that you're on the mends and will be quickly back on your bike. It looked like it escaped any damage, apart from the rear wheel. Should probably have the LBS look it at just to be on the safe side.

CHL


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## ratpick (Jul 31, 2008)

Urgh..road bike crashes suck. Both of mine have been descending - one due to gravel at 30 mph and one (on the same part of 84 you crashed) due to water/possibly ice.

One piece of advice when descending is to be more careful on corners turning right - if you fall, you'll slide into traffic and that could be game over. My fall on 84 was into traffic but I was lucky and found a gap.

Glad you're ok.. put it down to a brain-fart.. it happens!


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## CHL (Jun 24, 2005)

Must be a jinxed past couple of days. My buddy locked up his rear wheel on Pierce Road, this weekend. Unfortunately, he didn't come out of it that unscathed. He broke his leg and will probably be out for two months. Came out of surgery today with a rod and several screws in his leg.

I nearly went down on Haskins Grade several months ago. Heythorp goes down two days ago and now my other buddy goes down. I'm not sure if I will ever regain my nerve to descend with any speed.

Be safe out there.

CHL


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## pastpob (Jul 31, 2008)

Sorry for the newbie question guys, but what does, "make sure I don't pedal in turns" mean? Thanks for sharing your experience for the benefit of others to learn from. I hope you heal quickly and you're back on the road soon!

Thanks again!


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## CHL (Jun 24, 2005)

As Heythorp was going through a left bend turn, he was pedaling. His inner pedal clipped the surface of the road since the bike was leaning to the left. This is what caused the incident. 

To prevent this, you should have the inner leg raised @ 12:00 o'clock and the outer leg lowered @ 6:00 o'clock. You should also be applying pressure to the outer foot. This provides the counter balance to the lean and allows you to safely maneuver through the turn.

chl


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## heythorp (Feb 17, 2005)

rhauft said:


> *My lesson:*
> Moral of the story, Without my credit card I would have been screwed. No rangers on the weekends and no traffic either, Thank god for that nice elderly couple from Oregon or I would have been mountain lion bait.


Good lesson right there. I always have a few bucks on me, but I keep telling myself to grab my license and CC to take with me. No reason not to carry them.



CHL said:


> Must be a jinxed past couple of days. My buddy locked up his rear wheel on Pierce Road, this weekend. Unfortunately, he didn't come out of it that unscathed. He broke his leg and will probably be out for two months. Came out of surgery today with a rod and several screws in his leg.
> CHL


Lesson learned: Don't be friends with CHL and be a bike rider.



CHL said:


> I'm not sure if I will ever regain my nerve to descend with any speed.
> 
> CHL


Funny, after checking myself to make sure I was OK, I was like Damn this is going to freak Claude out. My crash had nothing to do with things you should be scared about while descending. I believe most people get in over their heads by going too fast and not being able to make the turn. 

This crash would have bothered me much more had my equipment failed me or a car came into my lane, but this was just something that I caused completely on my own. I actually had a car in front of me slowing me down.

The fact is there is no reason to put yourself in harms way out there. There is no payoff for riding dangerously. Yes going down hill is fun but let me tell you what I have endured (which is extremely minimal, especially after what happened today at the Giro) for the past 3 days sucks. 

My tailbone is so sore I can barely walk right now. The muscles in my left glut where so traumatized by the fall that I could not move my left leg until the next day. The road rash is a minor annoyance and luckily I don't have a normal job where I would have to go sit in an office all day. Sitting for long periods of time does not work right now.


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## marco_wrx (Feb 3, 2004)

Be careful out there. Plenty of crashes on the MTB... but I haven't fallen on my road bike since I got it 8 years ago. A pro wasn't so lucky yesterday:

http://velonews.competitor.com/2011/05/news/weylandt’s-death-leaves-giro-in-state-of-shock_172031


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## dwgranda (Sep 8, 2009)

pastpob said:


> Sorry for the newbie question guys, but what does, "make sure I don't pedal in turns" mean? Thanks for sharing your experience for the benefit of others to learn from. I hope you heal quickly and you're back on the road soon!
> 
> Thanks again!



It means don't pedal while turning. You can stike the pedal with the ground with pretty disasterous consequences.


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## dwgranda (Sep 8, 2009)

I know you might be thinking that this goes without saying, but take it easy! I got blown up by a car and my visible injuries (road rash expect for my cheekbone fracture) just looked like bloody scrapes, kinda like what you experienced when you fell off your bike as a kid. It really hides what the internal injuries potentially are. My knee looks like it's scarred up but internally hurts like hell, same with my hand. It's really weird to me to be able to do most things and not be bedridden, but still not able to do others and not able to do things at the level I could before. Let's just say that I'm not as quick to judge people with the handicapped plates that don't look so handicapped.


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## heythorp (Feb 17, 2005)

dwranda it is interesting what is happening externally and internally. 

Here is what I am experiencing. Its hard to sit still as its not like being sick and not having energy. I try to get a few things done every day, but after moving around for 2 hours or so my body is quitting and I need to lay down for a while. I can get about 2 to 3 "efforts" per day right now.

The wounds are healing nicely without too much problems/issues. I picked up my bike from the shop yesterday and other than the rear wheel being wrecked they gave it a thumbs up to ride. 

Even though I had them check it out, I am still fearful of using it. Memories of watching Hincapie's fork failing on him at Roubaix sticks in my mind. Hoping to be riding by end of next week. Putting on a pair of riding shorts right now is not really an option.


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## ukbloke (Sep 1, 2007)

Sorry to hear that you crashed out - get well soon! It is hard to recover from a pedal strike. In my experience it takes quite a bit of lean for this to happen (at least 20 degrees?) and it can be avoided as you mention, so you shouldn't expect this to happen again.

As for lessons, mine is to think ahead about what might happen next from the other party's point of view. For example, I was riding yesterday on a multi-use-trial bridge over a railway with the sound of a train approaching. The bridge is at a nice slope going up and I like to get out of the saddle and put in some effort. At the top of the bridge there was a group of small children on the left with a parent. I think you can guess what happened next. As I approached the top, the train passed underneath and instantly all the children turned around and ran across the bridge, without looking, to the other side to watch the train pass through. The adult didn't think ahead about what might happen. Fortunately I did - I'd already come to a complete stop expecting the kids to act like lemmings.


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## rockon (Nov 6, 2007)

> Originally Posted by rhauft
> ...Unfortunately for me, I was on my Rolf Elans with minimal spokes so this was a catastrophic failure and I was dead in the water at 4000 feet.


Lesson learned: buy wheels with more spoke count. I need to post this because I just got a nearly new 32h dura ace 7900 wheelset with sapim cx-ray spokes laced to xr-200 kilin rims for a great price. I only weigh 150lbs and I need to convince myself that these wheels are not over-built for me


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## jetdog9 (Jul 12, 2007)

Hope you're feeling better, heythorp.

The thing I learned over the last year of cycling was that if you don't have CO2 and use a pump to take care of flats, be gentle with the valve stems (and don't rip them off the tube) or you'll feel stupid having destroyed your spares and needing to call a friend.

Also, if you have to use a roof rack, put a step stool in your garage or something like a bike glove over your garage door opener in the car to avoid catastrophe when your mind is numb from the ride and you're trying to park your car.


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## Francis Cebedo (Aug 1, 2001)

Wow! That's what you been up to. Here's my observations.

Your body has just experienced a traumatic event. It will try to heal itself and it will slow down the rest of your system. It needs to focus its energy in the area of damage. So, you have to eat well, stretch and sleep. Stop screwing around and spending too much energy. It is time to really take it easy.

Many bad injuries occur when 'you let your guard down'. That's when you get surprised and get slammed to the ground. That's just how it is. I've done it twice this year and ended up in the ER. So always put your guard up. And when it happens, don't be too hard on yourself.

Finally, there's two types of road riders. Those who have fallen and those who have not. They say that those who have fallen are changed forever.

fc


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## dwgranda (Sep 8, 2009)

I also like the saying mountain bikers crash every other day and it hurts a little, road bikers crash every other year and it hurts a lot.


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## heythorp (Feb 17, 2005)

Francois, 

I am blaming you 100% I have not been invited to a dirt ride in a long time. Had I been Mt. Biking it would have been impossible to crash my Road bike. 

I don't know why I didn't start looking to blame someone else immediately. 

On another note. Having lots of time on my hands, I completely let the tension out of the spokes and I am almost done with a perfect rear wheel. Not sure Why I could do this and the shop couldn't . I don't want to bash my shop as they have gone above and beyond for me since I moved here. Especially since they don't know me from a hole in the wall. They knew I had a spare at home, so its not like they were trying to get me to buy anything.


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## CHL (Jun 24, 2005)

francois said:


> Finally, there's two types of road riders. Those who have fallen and those who have not. They say that those who have fallen are changed forever.
> 
> fc


Correction on this. Those who have nearly fallen are changed forever. Seriously, ever since I locked up on Haskins Grade, I'm just too scared to let the bike pick up any speed. In entering turns, I find that I could have carried a lot more speed.

I do find that my fear takes the enjoyment out of a descent. So there's a happy medium between descending "scared" and sufficiently vigilant.

chl


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## heythorp (Feb 17, 2005)

Somehow I managed to pull on a pair of shorts today and put in 18 very gingerly ridden miles around the valley today. 

Lesson on how *NOT* to shave weight from the bike.


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## ukbloke (Sep 1, 2007)

Yes, unfortunately those are all typical (and expensive) contact points for a road bike going down. The other ones are rims and QR levers. At least no bones were broken - that's gets very painful and expensive really quick! Glad to hear that you are out there riding again.


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## dadtorbn (Mar 31, 2010)

I'm glad you're mostly ok and didn't sustain any permanent injuries.. Be careful out there.

Next time you want to shave a few grams from your pedal use a grinder... It's safer!:wink:


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## CHL (Jun 24, 2005)

Did you purchase a new wheel or did you purchase a new rim? The hub of the old wheel looked good but the wheel looked like the wave washer. Sucks to have road rash to the equipment. I'm not too picky but it bugs the hell out of me.

Don't over do it on the rides. The wounds looked fairly wicked.

chl


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## alex3780 (Nov 7, 2009)

@heythorp - a month ago, i did something similar.

i was doing the Fremont Easter Crit. The course had 2 hairpins and the concrete was completely torn up. i'm cat 5 and the field was pretty small so we took it relatively easy for the first 10 laps. after that, the pace jumped up and I got in a small break of 3 and we quickly got a half of a lap on the sleepy field. we accelerated out of the first hairpin and next thing you know - SMACK - i'm on the ground sliding by myself. i stood up and immediately fell back down from woozy legs. 

my head hit first, followed by my hand and elbow, and finally my big juicy hip. someone came running over and pulled me away from my bike as I tried to get back in the race. the peloton hadn't come by yet and I thought I'd have time to slot back in. obviously, i wasn't thinking because my beautiful Ionos was cracked in a few places and the chin strap was torn and hanging off.

Shaken, but ok, I walked over to the start line and watched the last 2 laps. Someone who saw the crash said my butt lifted high up in the air and down I went. It didn't make sense to me. How on earth could that happen? A few minutes later, I looked down and my right show was scuffed big time and all of the other injuries were on my left side. Ahhh. It started to make sense. I took the hairpin too wide and my outer pedal clipped the stupid suburban office park mega-curb. This pushed my rear up in the air and thus my head down. Ouch.

My lessons:

1. ALWAYS wear a helmet. For the first week I got pretty dizzy a few times a day. I can't imagine how bad I'd be had I not been wearing a helmet.
2. Wear long finger gloves in crits. I make a living with my hands and man, they took a beating. The concrete was really bad and full of gravel so my left hand had a few massive gashes that still aren't fully healed. 
3. Watch those curbs. 
4. Stock up on wound treatment stuff. My favorite is Opsite Flexigrid. Nothing worse than not being prepared to heal.

Luckily the worst thing about it all was the breakaway I was in won by a good 40 seconds. Grrr.


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## heythorp (Feb 17, 2005)

CHL, 

The shop told me the wheel was done. Since I had a lot of time on my hands this week, I let the tension out of all the spokes and got the wheel back to true. I just need to tension the spokes now. I just need to send an email to the manufacturer to get spoke tensions. 

Alex,

We have kept a lot of wound treatment stuff on hand for a long time. Its a really good lesson to learn. The stuff is expensive and the amount I am going through is crazy. 

To further the discussion on wound treatment. Why is it not covered by health insurance. If I do not keep the wounds cleaned I would end up back at the Dr.s or Hospital for an infection. The insurance covers the visit after the accident and would cover any medication like penicillin to help with infection, but it won't cover all of the things you need to fix/prevent further issues with the current issue. 

Very annoying.


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## heythorp (Feb 17, 2005)

Well, made it up OLH today.

Today was the 5th ride in 2 weeks since the crash. I have been keeping the rides around the valley/canada road and nothing over 1.5 hours. I have of course been going too hard and on Sunday my left glut lock up and had to call for a ride home. 

Today It was so nice and warm I soft pedaled over to OLH and took my time going up it. 
Getting in and out of the saddle is a bit awkward still and I can not stay seated on the really steep stuff, it hurts the tailbone. 

The road rash is about 60% healed and I am hoping to stop covering in the next week, the tailbone I think might not be 100% for many months, but each day I seem to deal with it better. I can not stand on my left leg unassisted. 

Anyone want to ride tomorrow


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## Crampandgoslow (Dec 27, 2005)

heythorp, sorry to read of your crash and 'hope that you're healing up nicely. I've done the exact same thing as you on the same road and it bugged me, too. So the next time I went up 84 I looked closely at the corner I wiped on (sharp right hander towards the top) and realized that it's not just pedaling through a turn that caused the crash, but on a lot of the turns all the way down to the split at the bottom there are road patches on top of road patches, so the lean angle is further reduced, and, yep, you don't have to be leaning that far over before you catch a pedal. Of course, the faster you're going, the more you're going to be leaning over...


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## ukbloke (Sep 1, 2007)

I was pretty shocked to see how much lean I had going round corners descending on Page Mill Road today. Here's a snap from my video camera mounted on the handlebars.


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## heythorp (Feb 17, 2005)

ukbloke said:


> In my experience it takes quite a bit of lean for this to happen (at least 20 degrees?) and it can be avoided as you mention, so you shouldn't expect this to happen again.


After you posted this I went out in the garage and looked at how far you have to lean, It is substantial. You and I ripped down 84 2 weeks before I crashed, Did it look like I was even getting close?




Crampandgoslow said:


> So the next time I went up 84 I looked closely at the corner I wiped on (sharp right hander towards the top) and realized that it's not just pedaling through a turn that caused the crash, but on a lot of the turns all the way down to the split at the bottom there are road patches on top of road patches, so the lean angle is further reduced, and, yep, you don't have to be leaning that far over before you catch a pedal.


I have ridden back down 84 once since the crash as getting up on top of skyline was an issue for the first 2 weeks. I could not remember which turn it happened in, but after seeing how far you have to lean, your hypothesis is quite possible and probable as I was not riding that fast. 




ukbloke said:


> I was pretty shocked to see how much lean I had going round corners descending on Page Mill Road today. Here's a snap from my video camera mounted on the handlebars.


Nice pic and it shows how far we do lean. It helps a lot when your inside pedal is up and now down  

I know I had been pushing that descent for a few weeks now. I use very little brakes going down if unobstructed by vehicles. 

Recovery going well. I still have to cover the wounds (hopefully only another week of that) but the tailbone will probably be with me for a while. I can now do everything without too much discomfort but running or hiking steep hills is not an option right now. Good think I bike.


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## ukbloke (Sep 1, 2007)

heythorp said:


> After you posted this I went out in the garage and looked at how far you have to lean, It is substantial. You and I ripped down 84 2 weeks before I crashed, Did it look like I was even getting close?


You looked completely smooth and not at all near the ragged edge. I don't recall your lean angle, and that probably means that it was not particularly remarkable. It turned out that following you I was quite a bit faster than my previous Strava time on that descent and got a pretty high ranking (not that I seek those) so you were making very good time on that particular descent.

Glad that you are on the mend.


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