# Let's talk about brake pads and carbon rims



## MCBR1

So, I've been playing around with some Easton carbon wheels. They feel pretty awesome but for the braking. I have Tektro CR720 brakes (really good, BTW) with KoolStop Tectonic carbon-specific pads and the braking feels rather touchy and the fork shudder is just wicked. Aggressive toe-in helped some but did not eliminate the shudder (with alu rims and normal KoolStops, I have no shudder at all). The other thing I noticed was a significant amount of worn-off pad material collecting on the front of the pad and that was just zooming around my neighborhood for 15 minutes! How will they last even a dry race?

A friend of mine has run Zipps on the road for years using normal pads with no issues. That sounds pretty dang convenient. I'm thinking about trying Kool Stop salmons - a side benefit (along with regular v-brake holders) may be less of a propensity to collect aluminum bits when used with alu rims - anyone else noticed this?

Discuss.


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## Coolhand

Swiss Stop Yellows for the win. I use them with Reynolds carbon and Zipp carbon rims.


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## MCBR1

Coolhand said:


> Swiss Stop Yellows for the win. I use them with Reynolds carbon and Zipp carbon rims.


What is it about them that you like? What else have you used? How is the brake feel? How long do they last for you? Have you ever used then on aluminum rims? Do they pick up aluminum bits?

mb


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## Andrea138

I'd also vote for swiss stop yellows. On my road bike, they prettymuch felt like normal pads on an aluminum surface. Supposedly you can use them on any wheels, though they will wear out quicker than normal pads (and they're more expensive)


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## wunlap togo

Well, I've been using regular old black Kool-Stop thinline pads and they have been fine so far with my Easton carbon wheels. I have the front pads toed way in and I don't get shudder.

I'd like to try the Swissstop pads, but braking performance isn't really all that important to me for cross racing and I'm a tightwad. Whatevs, I'll just pick the aluminum bits out on friday night or hit the pads with a file and give 'er.


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## Coolhand

MCBR1 said:


> What is it about them that you like? What else have you used? How is the brake feel? How long do they last for you? Have you ever used then on aluminum rims? Do they pick up aluminum bits?
> 
> mb


The durability and replication of regular brake pad feel and performance, plus how well they treat the carbon braking surface. I liked them better then the Zipp pads and the Koolstop carbon specific pads. 

I never mix and match Al/carbon rims. I have a set of Reynolds Attack carbon clinchers for training and Zipp 404 Tubular for racing.


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## thinkcooper

I'm testing a set of Storck 69ers (69mm profile tubular rim manufactured by Zipp) for a review here, and part of the review is reporting on the best commonly available pad. The three pads for the test are Swiss Stop Yellows, Dura Ace carbon pads, and Zipp's carbon pad, made by Kool Stop. Early results for best braking performance? Swiss Stop Yellows.


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## MCBR1

thinkcooper said:


> I'm testing a set of Storck 69ers (69mm profile tubular rim manufactured by Zipp) for a review here, and part of the review is reporting on the best commonly available pad. The three pads for the test are Swiss Stop Yellows, Dura Ace carbon pads, and Zipp's carbon pad, made by Kool Stop. Early results for best braking performance? Swiss Stop Yellows.


You should throw a non-carbon specific pad into the mix - that would be interesting. Consensus does seem to be that the Swiss Stops are outstanding, though.


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## MCBR1

wunlap togo said:


> Well, I've been using regular old black Kool-Stop thinline pads and they have been fine so far with my Easton carbon wheels. I have the front pads toed way in and I don't get shudder.
> 
> I'd like to try the Swissstop pads, but braking performance isn't really all that important to me for cross racing and I'm a tightwad. Whatevs, I'll just pick the aluminum bits out on friday night or hit the pads with a file and give 'er.


Speaking as a fellow tightwad, I like this answer best so far.


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## Coolhand

MCBR1 said:


> Speaking as a fellow tightwad, I like this answer best so far.


Voiding your warranty may be an issue if you don't use carbon specific pads. I find it is more budget friendly not to do that with carbon rims (what tightwad is riding carbon wheels anyway?)


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## MCBR1

Coolhand said:


> Voiding your warranty may be an issue if you don't use carbon specific pads. I find it is more budget friendly not to do that with carbon rims (what tightwad is riding carbon wheels anyway?)


I don't see anything on the Easton web site about brake pads at all, let alone warranty-voiding. Just to be clear, I have carbon pads on there now but they feel terrible - chattery, touchy, and just plain bad. I'm looking for better feel primarily.


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## jmeerse

I run the Koolstop green ceramic compound pads, and use them with my Reynolds DV's and my aluminum rimmed wheels for road and 'cross use. I pick any metal out prior to putting the carbon wheels on, and maybe a couple scrapes with some sandpaper to smooth things out. Been doing this for 3 years now, and no problems. Braking is good, enough so that I don't feel the need to try anything else.


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## MCBR1

jmeerse said:


> I run the Koolstop green ceramic compound pads, and use them with my Reynolds DV's and my aluminum rimmed wheels for road and 'cross use. I pick any metal out prior to putting the carbon wheels on, and maybe a couple scrapes with some sandpaper to smooth things out. Been doing this for 3 years now, and no problems. Braking is good, enough so that I don't feel the need to try anything else.


Interesting - I've been wondering what the braking surface is actually made out of on these Eastons. There's no way it would just be carbon composite - that would wear through in about an hour. It's probably some sort of ceramic coating, which is kind of what it looks like. It would make sense that the greens would work.


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## cxwrench

MCBR1 said:


> Interesting - I've been wondering what the braking surface is actually made out of on these Eastons. There's no way it would just be carbon composite - that would wear through in about an hour. It's probably some sort of ceramic coating, which is kind of what it looks like. It would make sense that the greens would work.


you're talking about carbon here, not fibreglass. the carbon braking surface will outlast many sets of pads, don't worry.


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## allenpg

Tonight was my first wet and muddy ride with the Swisstop Yellows. They did a lot better than the cork pads that came with my TRP brakes. I never once worried about my braking ability in corners.


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## Big Bad Wolf

Would you use the Swissstop Yellows only on carbon rims or on aluminum rims as well? Or would they damage the alu rims?


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## atpjunkie

*they will work for both*



Big Bad Wolf said:


> Would you use the Swissstop Yellows only on carbon rims or on aluminum rims as well? Or would they damage the alu rims?


but I hear they wear fast on Alu rims, considering the price I'd save them for CF wheels


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## Big Bad Wolf

Plus, once they are used on alu rims, they contain little fragments of alu that could damage the carbon rims if you change wheels.
So it's not a good idea to change wheels and keep the pads. Better change pads as well.


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## rockdude

1 + for swiss stop yellow. I use them on al and carbon. They work well on both. I can get a season (Shorttrack/CX, about 35 races plus lots training) out of a pair. If you are using carbon for cross, the least of your worries is using the same pad on Al and carbon wheels. The mud and grim of cross will wear a brake surface faster than an occasional metal sliver.


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## OnForm

I use the yellows and have carbon tubular race wheels and aluminum clinchers for the pits. It's true, they will pick up tiny metal shards, but you can easily pick them out with needle nose pliers. You can't go alu to carbon without checking the pads thoroughly.

Yes the yellows are expensive, but far cheaper than a second set of carbon wheels for the pits.

edit: sorry for the redundancy, I didn't see Rockdudes post


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## Fireform

thinkcooper said:


> I'm testing a set of Storck 69ers (69mm profile tubular rim manufactured by Zipp) for a review here, and part of the review is reporting on the best commonly available pad. The three pads for the test are Swiss Stop Yellows, Dura Ace carbon pads, and Zipp's carbon pad, made by Kool Stop. Early results for best braking performance? Swiss Stop Yellows.


Have you compared them wet? I have a set of AC road wheels with the 58mm deep rims (the Zipp 404 rim, pre dimples), and with the yellow Swiss Stops in the rain it's like having no brakes at all. I replaced them with the new Zipp composite pads which are much better. Also was not a fan of the softer, spongier feel of the SS pads, but that's a relatively minor issue.


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## imba_pete

+1 swiss stop yellow for all wheels and conditions


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## Smoothy

A common misconception is that pads that are not carbon-specific will not protect the rim due to the compound. In reality, you just wear out the regular pads really fast and the carbon rim is fine. There's little heat generated in cross braking, so the issues are small compared to say, alu bits in the pads. 

I've used swiss stop yellow and reynolds' corks with DV46T's and found the wet braking to be inferior to that with aluminum rims paired with regular Koolstops. Yellow were better than corks for noise, shudder and feel for 'shaving speed' at cross speeds. If I bought carbon cross tubular rims again, I'd make sure the brake surface was aluminum and the spoke nipples were outside the rim.


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## Tresdandre

*Brake Pads - Economical alternative for carbon wheels*

I have Dengfu 38mm carbon clinchers that came with my bike. The brake pads were the original pads for Shimano Ultegra and screeched up a storm. I read all of the posts I could find and decided to try Yishun Bikes cork pads for carbon wheels. I taked to Kelly at Yishun bike and she told me they had a new ceramic brake pad. I told her I wanted them quick so she told me she would add them to their Aliexpress store so I could purchase by credit card. I purchesed them from their Aliexpress store and they sent them by ePacket, 9 days free shipping and they were here. $12.99/pair. Ceramic brake pads for carbon rims-in Bicycle Brake from Sports & Entertainment on Aliexpress.com (ceramic brake pads for carbon rims only guarantee no sound on brake surface, keep 70-100 degree while braking shimano 1 pair=2pads) I love my wheels and with these pads the noise is completely gone and the stopping power fantastic. I had to get used to not overbraking on the front they work so well. So if you are looking for an economical alternative to try I can highly recommend these.


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## atpjunkie

I bet Yehstar Ceramics would work if you could find them


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