# Surly Pacer for racing and touring, am I crazy?



## scone (Sep 11, 2006)

I've been spending a lot of time looking for an all-around bike than can be used as a (lightly) loaded touring bike, for occasional races, and general scooting around town. It seems like the most popular suggestion is to take a cyclocross frame like the surly cross-check or soma double cross, and use that.

I'm sure it would work really well, but to be honest, if I go on two trips of a weeks length each, I'll consider myself a lucky man. I have no trans-continental plans in the works, and realistically, I won't be touring with the bike all that much. The rest of the time I'll be riding it for fun, and I'd like to be able to race it a bit during the collegiate season.

I'm considering the pacer, since it has rack eyelets on the front and rear, but I had two questions:

(1) The chainstay length is only 410mm whereas the cross-check's chainstay is 420, and most dedicated touring frames have one near 430 or 440. Since I'll be on a really small frame (46 probably), should I be worried about striking the rear panniers with my heels?

(2) Since it's a lighter frame than the cross check, is it going to flex under a ~30lb. load?

(3) The pacer only takes caliper brakes... should I be concerned about stopping power on a loaded bike?


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## MB1 (Jan 27, 2004)

Pull a BOB trailer and you will be fine. Otherwise the bike isn't designed to be used with real touring loads and yes the chainstays are too short and will likely limit your pannier use.


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## scone (Sep 11, 2006)

That's what I was afraid of. Any idea what a "minimum" chainstay length is for holding a decent sized pannier? I know it depends on the rack and size of bag, but a ball-park number would be helpful since unfortunately I can't just pop down to the local "touring shop" and start putting stuff together. 

I was really trying to avoid the trailer thing, since they are expensive and somewhat bulky, and I doubt I would be a fan of the handling.


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## nbrennan (Feb 19, 2007)

scone said:


> I know it depends on the rack and size of bag, but a ball-park number would be helpful...



also depends on the size of your feet, the length of your cranks, where your cleats are, etc. If you are riding a frame in the mid 40's cm range, things might be awefully tight or nice and roomy depending on how you are proportioned. I've ridden a friends ultegra 10spd surly crosscheck commuter (avid shorties, fsa cx crank, trek interchange rack). She loves it, and so do I. I dont know about doing a collegiate crit on it, but it makes a great road bike.

edit: too bad you don't have a local touring shop. I do, and I also work in it!


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## Henry Chinaski (Feb 3, 2004)

Get a road bike for racing/training and a cheap used mtb with slicks for touring and riding around town.


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## supercorsa (Apr 23, 2002)

*total BOB fanboy here...*



scone said:


> and I doubt I would be a fan of the handling.


while BOB trailers do, admittedly, take a bit of getting used to, they are actually very well behaved. all said, a full load up high in panniers is far more unfriendly than the same load in a trailer.

as little as you'll be using one, put some feelers out and see if there's anyone you could borrow one from. or, failing that, if you end up getting your own you certainly won't regret it. very versatile, and totally built to last. completely offroad capable too, so that opens up mountain bike camping as well. highly recommended.


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## Hjalti (Feb 26, 2004)

*650b*

You can make the pacer a 650b bike by getting the right wheels and long reach brakes.

https://www.freewebs.com/650b/the650bpacerproject.htm










Then you have a fast rolling bike which won't have issues on just about any surface you'd encounter touring. 

As for clearance, consider alternatives to rear panniers. Look into some of the ultralight touring stuff, consider a front bag and saddlebag, or smaller panniers which give you the clearance. Most 'fully loaded' touring cyclists are carrying WAY too much stuff.

I've used small front panniers on the rear to give a bit more clearance, but now skip panniers completely.

Cheers


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## Hjalti (Feb 26, 2004)

Or go straight for a Kogswell Porteur/Randonneur

http://www.kogswell.com/products.html


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## MB1 (Jan 27, 2004)

Hjalti said:


> ....Most 'fully loaded' touring cyclists are carrying WAY too much stuff.....


So true.

Actually that is a problem with BOB trailers, they carry the load so well and have so much room that folks are tempted to bring along way more stuff than they actually need. Even worse if you are riding with other folks and have a BOB they will start asking you to haul some of their stuff since the BOB looks so roomy and easy to pull (it is, but that is no reason for you to haul their junk for them).


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## M.J. (Jan 28, 2004)

for trip's of under a week (on the credit card) I use a Carradice longflap saddlebag with an SQR on the seatpost, a frame pack and a handlebar bag

for camping (even overnight) I use the BOB 

my cross bike has adequate clearance for touring bags but light and fast or trailer hauling is IME better...


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## scone (Sep 11, 2006)

I'm really trying to stay away from 650b wheels since I have some 700c stuff laying around that I'd like to be able to use. Despite my reservations, the BOB makes a lot of sense. 

Assuming I go with something like a BOB then, I can basically buy whatever frame I want... so the question is: what companies should I be looking at for a quality steel frame that won't cost an arm and a leg. The waterfords, the rivendells, the IF's etc. are all fantastic, but they are out of my price range...

Surly and Soma both come to mind... anyone know of anything else?


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## ispoke (Feb 28, 2005)

*a "perfect compromise"?*

what you're saying is that you want a bike that compromises 98% of your riding in order to facilitate the remaining 2%. that may make you happy in the short term, but after a while you might develop more of a preference for the 98% design. keep in mind that long chainstays are not just for heel clearance. if you're carrying (too much) camping weight in rear panniers, a short-to-mid chainstay will force you to slide the panniers towards the rear for heel clearance, but that will position the weight above or behind the rear axle. whereas longer chainstays allow you to position the panniers forward to keep the weight (somewhat) in front of the axle, and bikes are (generally) designed to carry weight between the axles.

i was a pannier grouch (and still am for commuting), but my next frame will be a randonneur that is more nimble and light than a tourer. i guess that means i'm caving and would buy a trailer when it's time to cross the continent. or i'll use my fully rigid energy sink (MTB) with front-and-rear racks if i want to load up four saddlebags. so perhaps owning 2+ bikes is the perfect compromise...


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