# Garmin. What a powerhouse of a team! (Spoiler)



## Dynastar (Jun 8, 2007)

Look at all of the work they did staying out in front reeling in the breaks, keeping all three of their riders in the hunt, and Farrar takes the sprint. Unbelievable!

Between their Flanders performance and their ability to set up the sprint they are definitely a team to be feared.


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## atpjunkie (Mar 23, 2002)

*well we're just gonna wait*

if it's a sprint for 3rd or 1st
Jonathan, you need to add a 10, it was a sprint for 13th
I've been following the Ronde for quite some time, I don't recall it being settled in a bunch sprint
Flanders smiles on the bold and the cagey, not those that sit and wait


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## Lazy Spinner (Aug 30, 2009)

Saving themselves for Roubaix, right?


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## peter584 (Aug 17, 2008)

Garmin are "Paper Champions". All hype, win sprints Cavendish isn't at, and always talk about next years Tour.


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## kbwh (May 28, 2010)

Hammond? Let's waste him in the early break. 
Right on.

Things can only get better. I hope Hushovd gets his legs screwed back on before Sunday. Here's his RVV record, btw:

2011: 53
2010: 57
2009: DNS
2008: 27
2007: 60
2006: 14
2005: 31
2004: 38
2003: DNS
2002: 81
2001: 47
2000: DNF

Based on that there is cause for optimism.


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## DZfan14 (Jul 6, 2009)

Sometimes I wonder what Garmin's purpose is. Win races ,or lead pro cycling in exposure and failure to deliver.

If these guys showed up at your local practice crit and found a way to lose then it probably wouldn't shock anyone.


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## Coolhand (Jul 28, 2002)

My sarcasm meter exploded.


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## Salsa_Lover (Jul 6, 2008)

at least I liked the Argyle


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## thehook (Mar 14, 2006)

I was kinda shocked when JV said in the team car the race is over ride for third? Do not chase? I was under the assumption that when you get paid MILLIONS of dollars from sponsors you ride to WIN!

Glad I did not order that jersey from PBK.


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## tethernaut (Dec 11, 2008)

Are JV's sideburns getting thinner, or is his head getting fatter?


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## agm2 (Sep 18, 2008)

I can understand not wanting Tyler to chase. It's just the right tactical move in the situation they were in. If you have one guy in the group, and someone is already doing the chasing, then you don't sacrifice your last bullet to pull back the group, because if you do pull them back you have nothing left. 

On the other hand. I don't understand why they are underperforming so much. I don't think JV does either. Somethings not right, whether they aren't in top form or if their plans aren't right. I think they need to rethink how they do things because right now it's not working. Let's hope they are smarter for Paris Roubaix.


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## trener1 (Jan 22, 2004)

*Contrasting Styles*

Compare what JV said in the car, lets race for 3rd place.... 
And what big George said in the interview after the race, when asked if BMC did too much work, his response was we race to win, not for 2nd or 3rd...
I am glad to see Garming sucking, because that's about all they deserve.


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## Gnarly 928 (Nov 19, 2005)

tethernaut said:


> Are JV's sideburns getting thinner, or is his head getting fatter?


 JV is an irritating fellow in his public persona, isn't he? Maybe in real life he's OK, but in the media, he's a d**k, Working for him as a rider must be unpleasant.


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## jswilson64 (May 20, 2008)

tethernaut said:


> Are JV's sideburns getting thinner, or is his head getting fatter?


What makes you think it's not both?


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## DiegoMontoya (Apr 11, 2010)

Charmin-Cervelo. Now 25% softer.


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## atpjunkie (Mar 23, 2002)

*which was why*



kbwh said:


> Hammond? Let's waste him in the early break.
> Right on.
> 
> Things can only get better. I hope Hushovd gets his legs screwed back on before Sunday. Here's his RVV record, btw:
> ...


I was shocked at people choosing him to win the Ronde


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## atpjunkie (Mar 23, 2002)

*you will never win a monument*



trener1 said:


> Compare what JV said in the car, lets race for 3rd place....
> And what big George said in the interview after the race, when asked if BMC did too much work, his response was we race to win, not for 2nd or 3rd...
> I am glad to see Garming sucking, because that's about all they deserve.


especially R-V-V and P-R by playing safe, it doesn't work


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## AJL (Jul 9, 2009)

trener1 said:


> Compare what JV said in the car, lets race for 3rd place....
> And what big George said in the interview after the race, when asked if BMC did too much work, his response was we race to win, not for 2nd or 3rd...
> I am glad to see Garming sucking, because that's about all they deserve.


Definitely a jaw dropping moment. JV just gave up - what kind of strategy is that! He had a great team - one would think he could have gotten at least one rider in the top ten with some decent team work. The guys would have worked harder if given the go ahead, for crying out loud!!: 

JV:FAIL!


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## The Weasel (Jul 20, 2006)

Complete this sentence:

_No guts,...._


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## zosocane (Aug 29, 2004)

And how many of us on this thread have prior DS experience and, like JV, have ridden the TdF? ... :hand: As I suspected.

I don't understand why people are so worked up about Garmin failing to deliver yesterday. One of the posts above shows clearly that Flanders is not Thor Hushovd's race. His performance yesterday was not inconsistent with his prior Flanders results. Just because he is wearing the rainbow jersey, Hushovd doesn't suddenly become Superman. Farrar is mostly a sprinter, and sprinters rarely win Flanders (he finished fourth out of the bunch sprint last year after the podium was long decided). So scratch two-thirds of their triple threat. That leaves Haussler, who is probably best suited of the three for Flanders (he was runner-up in Flanders in 2009). Yes, Haussler was riding well in Qatar and took the green jersey in Paris-Nice, but over the last few weeks he hasn't been riding as strong. What can you do if your top guy for Flanders isn't on his game? 

Judgment Day for Garmin is this Sunday. Hushovd and Haussler are suited for Roubaix, and Hammond and Farrar should be doing a lot of damage at the front for them. If they don't put Hushovd or Haussler on the podium, then ***** and moan.


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## bmxhacksaw (Mar 26, 2008)

The Weasel said:


> Complete this sentence:
> 
> _No guts,...._


...no indigestion?


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## JohnHemlock (Jul 15, 2006)

fornaca68 said:


> And how many of us on this thread have prior DS experience and, like JV, have ridden the TdF? ... :hand: As I suspected.


I also have no experience fighting a 3-front war or filming girl-on-girl scenes, but that doesn't stop me from ripping on Obama or Vivid Video.


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## JustTooBig (Aug 11, 2005)

fornaca68 said:


> And how many of us on this thread have prior DS experience and, like JV, have ridden the TdF? ... :hand: As I suspected.
> 
> blahblahblahblah......
> 
> Judgment Day for Garmin is this Sunday. Hushovd and Haussler are suited for Roubaix, and Hammond and Farrar should be doing a lot of damage at the front for them. If they don't put Hushovd or Haussler on the podium, then ***** and moan.


Ah yes, the ever popular, "You've never done it, how could you possibly have any commentary worth my time?" argument. Thumbs up, buddy!

Thanks for giving the forum your permission as to when is the appropriate time to b!tch and moan about Garmin. We're grateful for your experienced guidance. 

Nothing like b!tching and moaning about others' b!tching and moaning to boost one's credibility, huh?


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## 55x11 (Apr 24, 2006)

fornaca68 said:


> And how many of us on this thread have prior DS experience and, like JV, have ridden the TdF? ... :hand: As I suspected.


I have finished as many TdF's as JV - zero.  

In all seriousness, it wasn't just a one-time thing. Garmin (and now Garmin-Cervello) has a well documented record of over-hyping and then under-delivering - and JV's comments only magnify the issue by playing into pre-existing stereotypes, fair or not.

You don't need JV's experience to see that despite all the hype the team fails to deliver, again and again and again. It's like they are purposefully sabotaging themselves.


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## parity (Feb 28, 2006)

I think this will be the final nail in the coffin for race radios. I'd rather see guys race their heart out then be told to not to work and go for 3rd.


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## RkFast (Dec 11, 2004)

JohnHemlock said:


> I also have no experience fighting a 3-front war or filming girl-on-girl scenes, but that doesn't stop me from ripping on Obama or Vivid Video.


Outstanding!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


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## grrrah (Jul 22, 2005)

JohnHemlock said:


> I also have no experience fighting a 3-front war or filming girl-on-girl scenes, but that doesn't stop me from ripping on Obama or Vivid Video.


So what's it like filming guy-on-guy scenes? 

:wink:


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## Sylint (Jul 27, 2009)

I want to like Garmin...I really do, but man they are just kinda....meh. Consistently.


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## foofighter (Dec 19, 2008)

watch the latest installment of beyond the peleton and you see how he interacts w/ his team...he's very direct to his people "follow the plan, ok? OK??"


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## mohair_chair (Oct 3, 2002)

The Weasel said:


> Complete this sentence:
> 
> _No guts,...._


No Haggis.


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## weltyed (Feb 6, 2004)

i wonder if they go in with that plan and refuse to have a plan b. this lead to "no work" plan b.

actually, not working in the group would have helped if the riders stayed near the front of the chase. you can be near the front and not work. bmc was doing all the work, let them. let them work and pull you back to teh front.

but thats not what happened. they just called it a day and made it a training ride. if they dont get a guy on the podium in roubaix, there will be hell to pay.


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## AJL (Jul 9, 2009)

Well, here's Vroomen's (Cervelo) comments on Flanders: Perfect tactics - no legs


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## zosocane (Aug 29, 2004)

55x11 said:


> In all seriousness, it wasn't just a one-time thing. Garmin (and now Garmin-Cervello) has a well documented record of over-hyping and then under-delivering - and JV's comments only magnify the issue by playing into pre-existing stereotypes, fair or not.
> 
> You don't need JV's experience to see that despite all the hype the team fails to deliver, again and again and again. It's like they are purposefully sabotaging themselves.


What hype? Garmin has a fair number of American riders so naturally Velosnooze and Versus will pump them up. On paper they weren't going to place top 5 BEFORE the Ronde began so -- again -- a fail to see how Garmin over-promised and under-delivered.

And BTW, all this classics stuff will be a distant memory when GC kids like Talansky and Martin start crushing it this Summer, and guys like Hushovd and Farrar taking stage wins. Remember the name Andrew Talansky in particular ...


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## 55x11 (Apr 24, 2006)

bmxhacksaw said:


> ...no indigestion?


 Ha-ha, can I steal that?! Best jokes I have heard all week!


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## 55x11 (Apr 24, 2006)

fornaca68 said:


> What hype? Garmin has a fair number of American riders so naturally Velosnooze and Versus will pump them up. On paper they weren't going to place top 5 BEFORE the Ronde began so -- again -- a fail to see how Garmin over-promised and under-delivered.
> 
> And BTW, all this classics stuff will be a distant memory when GC kids like Talansky and Martin start crushing it this Summer, and guys like Hushovd and Farrar taking stage wins. Remember the name Andrew Talansky in particular ...


There we go with hyper-hype again. And don't forget Tommy Danielson, that "kid" will surely win TdF this year, you heard it here first! (He is still young, what is he - 22, 23?)

I am all for encouraging young talent, and I think Talansky and mini-Phinney and others are great - BUT - what GC's precisely will Talansky and Matrin will be crushing this Summer? You don't mean TdF, do you?!!!


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## moabbiker (Sep 11, 2002)

I though Vandevelde was going to be Garmin's TDF recipe for success. At least he was before Wiggins. Then they lost Wiggins so went back to Vandevelde hype.


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## CabDoctor (Jun 11, 2005)

foofighter said:


> watch the latest installment of beyond the peleton and you see how he interacts w/ his team...he's very direct to his people "follow the plan, ok? OK??"


Yeah I'm not sure if he was trying to over dramatize things for the camera or what.....either way he seemed like a d-bag in the vid.


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## DZfan14 (Jul 6, 2009)

55x11 said:


> There we go with hyper-hype again. And don't forget Tommy Danielson, that "kid" will surely win TdF this year, you heard it here first! (He is still young, what is he - 22, 23?)
> 
> I am all for encouraging young talent, and I think Talansky and mini-Phinney and others are great - BUT - what GC's precisely will Talansky and Matrin will be crushing this Summer? You don't mean TdF, do you?!!!


Ok let's try to stay on target here and not ruin a good Jonathan Vaughters bashing session. Most of the TD hype happened during the Fassa Bortolo, Team-Disco-extra liter of blood era. 

What IS relevant was that moronic revelation two years back about Tom Danielson being fat because he was like 1/16th Eskimo. That had to have been one of the biggest WTF bits of publicity I have ever seen. 

JV should have anything to do with day to day racing stuff. If this team ever wants to be taken seriously they need to bring a serious racer to do all of the DS stuff and leave JV to manage the upper level management type stuff. 

Just keep JV out of the car, out of the bus and away from the riders because his influence has made this team into a bunch of losers. 

Just look at the latest "Beyond the Peloton", if Thor had punched JV in the neck after that "pep" talk, he wouldn't have been out of line.

http://www.cervelo.com/en_us/video-documentaries/


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## orange_julius (Jan 24, 2003)

Gnarly 928 said:


> JV is an irritating fellow in his public persona, isn't he? Maybe in real life he's OK, but in the media, he's a d**k, Working for him as a rider must be unpleasant.


Remember when Cycle Sport had him review gears at Interbike and we had to put up with photos of him making funny faces at cranksets and helmets? 

And also his over-wrought public letter to Roger Legeay? 

And this one is too easy: as a DS perhaps he's simply teaching his team to be as big a winner as he was when he was a rider. QSI has Wilfried Peeters, a man who fought constantly in the trenches, and brought many victories to his leaders, most notably Museeuw. Peeters can do a genuine Belgian woof-shrug. Garmin has JV. 

As said in another post, maybe JV has to stop being DS, in the same way that Levefere now limits himself to offline threats to his own riders and sour comments to the media ;-).


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## baker921 (Jul 20, 2007)

The judgement not to chase Cancellara was not wrong, Nuyens didn't either. The problem was none of the team was able to stay with the top group.


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## ronderman (May 17, 2010)

Yea, look, I want to like Cervelo - all good guys and clearly they are doing something AGAINST doping. Look at Dave Z, guy was a powerhouse on CSC comes to Garmin and he is a no one. 

With that said, there is literally no excuse for telling your riders to sprint for 3rd - Cervelo has great PR, lots of articles in NYTimes and the like, but to any cycling aficionado who saw that - it looked REAL weak. No ammount of over the top dramatic rapha-esque beyond the pelaton is going to fix that.


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## thechriswebb (Nov 21, 2008)

The Weasel said:


> Complete this sentence:
> 
> _No guts,...._



No tapeworms?


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## orange_julius (Jan 24, 2003)

baker921 said:


> The judgement not to chase Cancellara was not wrong, Nuyens didn't either. The problem was none of the team was able to stay with the top group.


I think an important part in the decision-making to chase Cancellara or not is what Gilbert said. In the chase group, they were going 60 kph with the gap holding steady, and everybody was in disbelief that Cancellara would be able to maintain that speed. 

Plus, Wilfried Peeters - following the break - saw Cancellara ask for copious amounts of water and food from his team car. That's not a good sign no matter what. 

To me, given the wily DS Peeters is, the question to the other DS is, at what point of the race do you want the catch to happen and who should do the work? Either by luck or by design, this happened in the middle of the Muur. A strong team with a strong rider will have then been able to counter-attack as the catch happened and possibly slip away until the Bosberg, taking advantage of potential hesitation. 

I think more than one rider had the same idea, but the pace was such that no attacks really materialized. Given that Boonen is the top sprinter, things did look good for QSI. Of course, Gilbert and Ballan and everybody else knew this, too, hence they went for broke at the Bosberg. 

The route from the Muur to the Bosberg is downhill and really fast. And I think anybody will need a bit of a gap at the top of the Muur to really capitalize on this. Then you can accelerate off the top and gain speed quickly and build a gap. Else all you do is just string out a tired group and not quite snap the elastic.


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## 32and3cross (Feb 28, 2005)

orange_julius said:


> Remember when Cycle Sport had him review gears at Interbike and we had to put up with photos of him making funny faces at cranksets and helmets?
> 
> And also his over-wrought public letter to Roger Legeay?
> 
> ...



Actually PVP was in the car at Flanders and pprently was next to worthless from what I hear. Im a fan of PVP and he was a great rider but he may not have what its takes to direct.


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## peter584 (Aug 17, 2008)

moabbiker said:


> I though Vandevelde was going to be Garmin's TDF recipe for success. At least he was before Wiggins. Then they lost Wiggins so went back to Vandevelde hype.


Now they want hesjadal(sp) to finish just off the podium


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## El Caballito (Oct 31, 2004)

No COJONES!!!


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## zosocane (Aug 29, 2004)

55x11 said:


> I am all for encouraging young talent, and I think Talansky and mini-Phinney and others are great - BUT - what GC's precisely will Talansky and Matrin will be crushing this Summer? You don't mean TdF, do you?!!!


The TdF, the Vuelta, the Dauphine, the Tour de Suisse, the Giro. Of course they won't win GC. But look at how high these kids are going to place. That's exciting to watch, especially a 21-year-old American who is relatively unknown.


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## 55x11 (Apr 24, 2006)

ronderman said:


> Yea, look, I want to like Cervelo - all good guys and clearly they are doing something AGAINST doping. Look at Dave Z, guy was a powerhouse on CSC comes to Garmin and he is a no one.
> 
> With that said, there is literally no excuse for telling your riders to sprint for 3rd - Cervelo has great PR, lots of articles in NYTimes and the like, but to any cycling aficionado who saw that - it looked REAL weak. No ammount of over the top dramatic rapha-esque beyond the pelaton is going to fix that.


these are all excellent points! Imagine how motivating it is to hear that you are told to sit up and race for third. Never mind what fans may think. If Garmin-Cervello was a stock, it would drop 20% the moment JV uttered that phrase. Even though if Hushovd and Haussler were dropped and Tyler was isolated, perhaps it was not the most terrible advice to sit up. Still, sprinting for third is not exactly the most exciting or motivating instructions ever.


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## Fignon's Barber (Mar 2, 2004)

Vaughter's team makes me NOT want to ride a Cervelo. Good ad for Garmin, though. You need one to get home after being dropped.


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## atpjunkie (Mar 23, 2002)

*and besides*



55x11 said:


> I have finished as many TdF's as JV - zero.
> 
> In all seriousness, it wasn't just a one-time thing. Garmin (and now Garmin-Cervello) has a well documented record of over-hyping and then under-delivering - and JV's comments only magnify the issue by playing into pre-existing stereotypes, fair or not.
> 
> You don't need JV's experience to see that despite all the hype the team fails to deliver, again and again and again. It's like they are purposefully sabotaging themselves.



TdF experience has little to do with monument experience. The mindset to win a GT has nothing to do with the mindset to win a classic


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## bnoojin (Mar 24, 2002)

*ironically...*



32and3cross said:


> Actually PVP was in the car at Flanders and pprently was next to worthless from what I hear. Im a fan of PVP and he was a great rider but he may not have what its takes to direct.


I like PVP too, but he has said in interviews when he was still a rider that he probably wouldn't make a good ds after he retired because he tended to stay at the back of the bunch and would only move forward when he felt it was the right time. in other words, he raced on instinct and by his own admission wouldn't be good at directing other riders.

JV must have missed that edition of Cycle Sport.


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## guyc (Mar 16, 2011)

Another shocker for them today with Farrar coming down hard. Cav takes the win.


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## LostViking (Jul 18, 2008)

I think Thor said the team (not just him) was not well conditioned or prepared for the race...whose fault is that?


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## JohnHemlock (Jul 15, 2006)

LostViking said:


> I think Thor said the team (not just him) was not well conditioned or prepared for the race...whose fault is that?


I just watched Farrar condition the pavement with his face. That team is jinxed.


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## spade2you (May 12, 2009)

Shoot, Millar and DZ got beat by a sprinter in a TT by a sprinter!


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## Undecided (Apr 2, 2007)

Maybe this thread made them angry.


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## zosocane (Aug 29, 2004)

A week ago (see my first post on this thread) I wrote that Judgment Day for Garmin was today. 

Garmin delivered.


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## DZfan14 (Jul 6, 2009)

fornaca68 said:


> A week ago (see my first post on this thread) I wrote that Judgment Day for Garmin was today.
> 
> Garmin delivered.



Great win. I am not sure if Garmins tactics were brilliant or idiotic.

They finally won a big one.


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## atpjunkie (Mar 23, 2002)

*very smart*



DZfan14 said:


> Great win. I am not sure if Garmins tactics were brilliant or idiotic.
> 
> They finally won a big one.


have a strong guy in the break
and your #1 man on the wheel of the race favorite

it is what QS had going last week until FC dropped Boonen in traffic

tis how it is done


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## zosocane (Aug 29, 2004)

atpjunkie said:


> have a strong guy in the break
> and your #1 man on the wheel of the race favorite
> 
> it is what QS had going last week until FC dropped Boonen in traffic
> ...


Agreed. Cycling tactics 101.


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## DZfan14 (Jul 6, 2009)

atpjunkie said:


> have a strong guy in the break
> and your #1 man on the wheel of the race favorite
> 
> it is what QS had going last week until FC dropped Boonen in traffic
> ...


Except they had two strong guys in the break and kicked one back to Thor.


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## alexb618 (Aug 24, 2006)

DZfan14 said:


> Except they had two strong guys in the break and kicked one back to Thor.


and then decided to chase their own man in the break for some reason


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## agm2 (Sep 18, 2008)

alexb618 said:


> and then decided to chase their own man in the break for some reason


If you read about the game plan, they didn't decide to chase their man down. They were at the front because Boonen was off the back. They stuck to their plan and their plan was to send VanSummeran up the road, so Thor would have a team mate when the race favorites went off the front.


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## alexb618 (Aug 24, 2006)

what it translated to when i was watching it was that garmin had no faith in JVS and thought their only hope was taking thor to the front group

boonen was long gone at that point


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## Sylint (Jul 27, 2009)

alexb618 said:


> what it translated to when i was watching it was that garmin had no faith in JVS and thought their only hope was taking thor to the front group
> 
> boonen was long gone at that point


 
Wrong. Send JVS on a flyer off the break, and Thor marked Cancellara, instead of trying to go himself and dragging Cancellara to JVS.


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## TerminatorX91 (Mar 27, 2011)

This thread got b!tch-slapped today.


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## alexb618 (Aug 24, 2006)

Sylint said:


> Wrong. Send JVS on a flyer off the break, and Thor marked Cancellara, instead of trying to go himself and dragging Cancellara to JVS.


so you didnt see the garmin(s) that came back to thor from the front group and were essentially chasing their own team mate? (and ended up sending fabian to the podium)


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## DZfan14 (Jul 6, 2009)

Sylint said:


> Wrong. Send JVS on a flyer off the break, and Thor marked Cancellara, instead of trying to go himself and dragging Cancellara to JVS.


I watched that part of the race again. That's pretty much how I see it as well. Once they released JVS they didn't chase. 

In think Garmin let JVS go at exactly the right time. It was a smart play and a classy win.


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