# Bottom Bracket Compatibility with Newish S-Works Frame



## tenacean (Jul 7, 2007)

I mashed up my '09 S-Works Tarmac and I'm building up a new frame. I'm now tired of searching through multiple threads on bottom bracket compatibility topics. I can't believe manufacturers have made this so damn complicated...so...I'm just going to ask this question to get right to the answer I need quickly. Please read.

I bought a lightly used, 2012 S-Works SL3 Roubaix frame that I'm building up. I'm going to buy the older 10spd SRAM red groupset rather than the new 22 offering or the new Dura Ace 9000 or Campy Super Record...

...why?...

...I'm now having compatibility issues with my Shamal Ultra 2-way wheelset (I run tubeless). In short, it seems ridiculous to upgrade to an 11 speed system...and then have to spend even more money on a new wheelset that's compatible with an 11spd cassette as well. The overall improvement in ride performance per $$ spent...just doesn't add up for how I ride.

So, with all that said...here's my question:

Will the currently installed OSBB on my new S-Works SL3 Roubaix frame work with the older SRAM Red crankset that is BB30?? Threaded BB30??

Thank you!


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## tommyturbo (Jan 24, 2002)

I'm a Campy guy and can't answer your question about the SRAM crankset, but I am a little confused about your comment, "I'm now having compatibility issues with my Shamal Ultra 2-way wheelset (I run tubeless). In short, it seems ridiculous to upgrade to an 11 speed system...and then have to spend even more money on a new wheelset that's compatible with an 11spd cassette as well." 

I've run 11 speed since day one with my 2009 Eurus 2-Way wheels, and I also go tubeless. I can assure you that a Campy 11s cassette will fit and function perfectly with your Shamals. If you want to use Shimano or SRAM 11s, I don't know if that will work, but Campy does make freehub bodies for Shimano cassettes.


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## bikerjulio (Jan 19, 2010)

OP thought it would be a good idea to post this somewhat incoherent question in another forum too, where I had the exact same response

http://forums.roadbikereview.com/components-wrenching/bottom-bracket-compatibility-newish-s-works-frame-311839.html


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## PJ352 (Dec 5, 2007)

tenacean said:


> ...here's my question:
> 
> Will the currently installed OSBB on my new S-Works SL3 Roubaix frame work with the older SRAM Red crankset that is BB30?? Threaded BB30??
> 
> Thank you!


It'll work. You have a CF 46mm OSBB SHELL WITH PRESS-IN CUPS. Once at the link below, see the compatibility chart (bottom of page). Specifically,

SRAM BB30
OSBB press-in cups / OSBB bearings (follow SRAM BB30 installation instructions)

http://service.specialized.com/collateral/ownersguide/new/assets/pdf/IG0414_revC.pdf


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## tenacean (Jul 7, 2007)

LOL...some of you need a reading intervention...oh brother...

The issue is simply finding a compatible, top end, road drivetrain that will fit my new SL3 frame (with an OSBB) AND my wheelset. If I can do that...I don't have to purchase a new wheelset. I'm trying to find out if the new 11 speed drivetrains will meet my needs. The 11 speed Campy may fit my Shamal wheelset with a new freehub body but I'm unsure (from what I've read) if Super Record is compatible with my S-Work frame's OSBB.

I'd prefer the new Dura Ace 9000 11 speed group but, from what I understand, that group will not fit my Shamal wheelset...nor will the new SRAM 11 speed cassette. That is frustrating if true.

So, I'm now looking at the "older" SRAM 10 speed Red group because it seems to fit all my needs...a) the BB30 BB effectively works with my OSBB and b) it will fit my Shamal wheelset.

My thanks again to a poster elsewhere on this site...(who can read and understand text longer than a Tweet)...for answering the BB30/OSBB question. Also, my thanks to Tommyturbo for helping me to understand a bit more about my Shamal wheelset.


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## PJ352 (Dec 5, 2007)

tenacean said:


> LOL...some of you need a reading intervention...oh brother...


It's actually reading _comprehension_, not _intervention_, but that aside...



tenacean said:


> The issue is simply finding a compatible, top end, road drivetrain that will fit my new SL3 frame (with an OSBB) *AND my wheelset*.


... wasn't your original question. As you stated initially, 



tenacean said:


> ...*here's my question*:
> 
> Will the currently installed OSBB on my new S-Works SL3 Roubaix frame work with the older SRAM Red crankset that is BB30?? Threaded BB30??
> 
> Thank you!


... and I answered that, ignoring the fact that you pleaded ignorance on the topic by mentioning a threaded BB30. There are none..


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## c-bear (Jun 4, 2012)

*c-bear osbb-sram bb30 crank*



tenacean said:


> The issue is simply finding a compatible, top end, road drivetrain that will fit my new SL3 frame (with an OSBB) AND my wheelset. If I can do that...I don't have to purchase a new wheelset. I'm trying to find out if the new 11 speed drivetrains will meet my needs. The 11 speed Campy may fit my Shamal wheelset with a new freehub body but I'm unsure (from what I've read) if Super Record is compatible with my S-Work frame's OSBB.
> 
> I'd prefer the new Dura Ace 9000 11 speed group but, from what I understand, that group will not fit my Shamal wheelset...nor will the new SRAM 11 speed cassette. That is frustrating if true.
> 
> So, I'm now looking at the "older" SRAM 10 speed Red group because it seems to fit all my needs...a) the BB30 BB effectively works with my OSBB and b) it will fit my Shamal wheelset.


If I may throw in my 2-cents worth of input,the simplest is as you already pointed out : osbb frame + sram 10 speed crank + shamal (wheel).
You just need the osbb-sram bb30 OSBB Sram BB30 Bottom Bracket|C-BEAR.COM Ceramic Bearings 4 Bicyles
If it is sram gxp then this link Sram GXP Race 2011 OSBB Bottom Bracket|C-BEAR.COM Ceramic Bearings 4 Bicyles
Maybe our bb charts maybe a helpful reference http://www.c-bear.com/image/bbchart-print.pdf
If you want to use a campagnolo crank, it requires more adjustment as you already also discovered, for the body.
If you need further clarification, you are welcome to contact us direct info[at]c-bear[dot]com


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## tommyturbo (Jan 24, 2002)

I just quickly re-read this thread, and maybe I missed this, but has the OP stated what year his Shamals are? Do they have a Campagnolo or Shimano splined cassette freewheel body? If the Shamals are 2009 or newer and have a Campy body, 11s will definitely work. If they are older wheels, the OP can contact Campy to see if his wheels will work with Campy 11s. Coincidentally, Lennard Zinn wrote an article for Velonews about 11s compatibility:

Drivetrain compatibility hidden in plain sight - VeloNews.com

His conclusion is that Campy, Shimano, and SRAM 11s are pretty much interchangeable as far as wheels, cassette body type, and chain.


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## roadworthy (Nov 11, 2011)

tenacean said:


> I mashed up my '09 S-Works Tarmac and I'm building up a new frame. I'm now tired of searching through multiple threads on bottom bracket compatibility topics. I can't believe manufacturers have made this so damn complicated...so...I'm just going to ask this question to get right to the answer I need quickly. Please read.
> 
> I bought a lightly used, 2012 S-Works SL3 Roubaix frame that I'm building up. I'm going to buy the older 10spd SRAM red groupset rather than the new 22 offering or the new Dura Ace 9000 or Campy Super Record...
> 
> ...


Its only complicated if you aren't technical and most aren't.
Ans: Sram BB30 is plug and play on late model S-works frame. No adapters required.

As to your wheelset, you have a 10s wheelset with Shimano/Sram freehub. Sram 10s cassette is plug and play.

You can run Campy 11s with a freehub change....but not 11s Shimano/Sram because greater wheel dish is required to accommodate longer 11s Shimano/Sram freehub.

Any Campy crank can be adapted to a late model Sworks bike. Many effective solutions.


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## willstylez (Sep 15, 2011)

Roadworthy,

I just finished reading this thread (see below), regarding the Bottom Bracket fiasco.

http://forums.roadbikereview.com/specialized/sl4-pro-frame-osbb-campy-ultra-torque-crank-260617.html

Now I'm utterly confused as to which bottom bracket measurements my frame has, haha. I have a 2011 S-Works Tarmac OSBB. I'm currently running a Ultegra crankset (with full Ultegra groupset). However, I plan on upgrading to Campy Record over the winter. Will a 2013 Record crankset work with my frame OR do I have to wait for the 2014 Over-Torque cranksets?

Thanks.


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## roadworthy (Nov 11, 2011)

willstylez said:


> Roadworthy,
> 
> I just finished reading this thread (see below), regarding the Bottom Bracket fiasco.
> 
> ...


No problem Will. First you said its OSBB. OSBB is either industry standard BB30...or...Specialized narrow version of PF30. The point is...its doesn't matter for your crank selection because you have options either way. There is a remote chance in fact that your 2011 Sworks Tarmac is even English threaded....but you said it is OSBB which isn't English threaded.

The way to tell if it is English threaded without taking it apart is...if it is, it has a std. Ultegra BB threaded to the BB. To thread on the cups, you need small indentations around the circumference of the cups for the spanner wrench to attach. If there is nothing like this and it is basically flush next to crank arms you have either configuration of OSBB.
So what to do if you have OSBB. What I wrote before. Either use Specialized adapters, remove Campy bearings from a UT crank...or wait and buy a BB30 Campy crank.

Not too hard to navigate this decision...largely about timing which crank you go with...both will work. If you can wait for a Campy BB30 crank, I would do that. Why? Because BB30 cranks are the future. The BB itself may morph a bit over time...with different BB options of bearing attachment, a Praxis style BB etc....but the BB30 crank itself isn't going anywhere because it is about as simple and elegant a crank design that could be devised and why Campy spent the money to tool one up.


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## bikerjulio (Jan 19, 2010)

> So what to do if you have OSBB. What I wrote before. Either use Specialized adapters, remove Campy bearings from a UT crank...or wait and buy a BB30 Campy crank.


Spec's solution for campy just looks horrible. There is at least one other alternative.

Not to toot C Bear's horn too much, but they have an adapter that converts an OSBB frame to regular threaded, so Campy's usual cups and setup are used. Campagnolo Race 2011 OSBB Bottom Bracket|C-BEAR.COM Ceramic Bearings 4 Bicyles


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## roadworthy (Nov 11, 2011)

bikerjulio said:


> *Spec's solution for campy just looks horrible. *There is at least one other alternative.
> 
> Not to toot C Bear's horn too much, but they have an adapter that converts an OSBB frame to regular threaded, so Campy's usual cups and setup are used. Campagnolo Race 2011 OSBB Bottom Bracket|C-BEAR.COM Ceramic Bearings 4 Bicyles


Gotta love the internet. You said it 'looks' horrible. Aside from being wrong, have you ever installed any? My guess is not. The Specialized Campy UT solution is verbatim Wheel Mfg adapter design scaled for Campy 25mm OD crank. The Wheel Mfg solution is far and away the most prevalent and successful adapter solution sold including on OE bikes that adapt Shimano cranks to BB30.

OP...C-bear makes well engineered products. But, depends how much you want to pay. The linked C-bear solution is $130 more than Specialized adapters which are plug and play with Campy UT. Plus they utilize stock BB30 bearings which can be replaced for $8/ea at a very high quality i.e. ABEC-5. Last note is the C-bear press in alloy sleeve is more invasive....installed with a press.

Your money OP.


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## tom_h (May 6, 2008)

tommyturbo said:


> ... Coincidentally, Lennard Zinn wrote an article for Velonews about 11s compatibility:
> 
> Drivetrain compatibility hidden in plain sight - VeloNews.com
> 
> His conclusion is that Campy, Shimano, and SRAM 11s are pretty much interchangeable as far as wheels, cassette body type, and chain.


Zinn is not infrequently wrong, and if he ever admits it, it's not until months later.

I'm pretty sure the Shimano 11 and Campy 11 are different cog spacing, so they can't be "interchangeable". 

The Shimano 11 freehub is longer than Shimano 10 to accomodate wider cassette.

It's only this year that requisite wheels with the different "dish" were widely available to fit the longer freehub. 

In fact, Zipp's 2013 wheels also have a slightly wider 135.8mm (up 0.8) lug-to-lug axle width, to squeeze out the last little bit of clearances. Virtually all frames have enough flex to accomadate Zipp's 0.8mm wider axle.


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## roadworthy (Nov 11, 2011)

tom_h said:


> Zinn is not infrequently wrong, and if he ever admits it, it's not until months later.
> 
> I'm pretty sure the Shimano 11 and Campy 11 are different cog spacing, so they can't be "interchangeable".
> 
> ...


And wrong is a binary word...there are degrees of correctness. Agree with your comments about Zinn...but Zinn's cross compatibility reviews are more qualitative in nature past and present. Campy calls certain tolerable interactions B level compatibility. If they were to coin the Campy/Shimano combination which they would never address  it would C or D level. Will a Campy groupset shift a Shimano 11s wheelset and cassette. Yes...the spacing IS close enough. But it won't be nearly as smooth including cross chaining as Campy 11s cassette spacing which has graduated spacing...larger spacing in biggest cogs...and would be a compromise of shifting one half of the cassette better than the other due to pull ratio difference.

Shimano's new 11s wheel dish is greater than Campy's 10-11s wheel dish. Campy's 10-11s wheel dish is greater than Shimano's 9-10s wheel dish. Shimano was in a box and had to go wider for 11s unlike Campy. Shimano likely package protected for 12s. 

Also agree 135mm rear spacing is the future which will include further developed downsized and lighter hydraulic disk brakes on road bikes which btw will promote more carbon wheel usable due to poor weather braking becoming a non issue and finding their way onto even mid level $3K road bikes.


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## tom_h (May 6, 2008)

Oops, I made a mistake in my previous post, standard road axle width is, of course, 130.0 mm (not 135).

2013 Zipp went to 130.8 mm width


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## tom_h (May 6, 2008)

roadworthy said:


> ... Campy 11s cassette spacing which has graduated spacing...larger spacing in biggest cogs...and would be a compromise of shifting one half of the cassette better than the other due to pull ratio difference....


Are you sure?

I have 3 Campy11 cassettes.

I can't accurately measure spacing of the 2 sets of "triplet" cogs, but of the plastic spacers, all are 2.2mm thick except for one 2.3mm spacer between the 5th & 6th cogs (counting from small cog end).

That 2.3mm spacer was a change in the mid-to-late 2009 model year.


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