# Hands in the drops and standing?



## 9.8m/s/s (May 7, 2006)

Over the last few hundred miles I have been increasing my time spent in the drops. I'm at the point where I'm comfortable enough to ride for decent periods of time on flat roads and it's what I prefer for short steep hills. Sitting and climbing in them seems to be really efficient, but I've found that if I need to stand to crest a hill it becomes a problem. As soon as I stand my front wheel starts to wobble like crazy until I sit back down. If it matters, it never happens if I stand up in the hoods, or if I stay seated and pull in the drops. 

I'm guessing there is too much weight on my front wheel?


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## JCavilia (Sep 12, 2005)

9.8m/s/s said:


> Over the last few hundred miles I have been increasing my time spent in the drops. I'm at the point where I'm comfortable enough to ride for decent periods of time on flat roads and it's what I prefer for short steep hills. Sitting and climbing in them seems to be really efficient, but I've found that if I need to stand to crest a hill it becomes a problem. As soon as I stand my front wheel starts to wobble like crazy until I sit back down. If it matters, it never happens if I stand up in the hoods, or if I stay seated and pull in the drops.
> 
> I'm guessing there is too much weight on my front wheel?


My guess would be too little. But it may just be with your size and weight distribution, how you fit the frame, etc., it's just not a good position for you. Not so many riders climb for long stretches in the drops (Marco Pantani was a notable exception), but lots of people stand up to sprint with hands in the drops. If you watch their body position, many have weight quite far forward, and very low. 

Try bending your arms a lot, so your forearms are about parallel to the ground. Move forward further than you think you should, so your chin is nearly over the middle of the handlebar, and your head low (6 inches or less above the bar). Your back may be horizontal,or you may even be a little head-down. Your upper arms will be vertical, or even angled forward (i.e., your elbow an acute angle).

It seems like a very aggressive position, but it's very stable (if it works for you), and you can put maximum power in the pedals.

It's also very aero, which is another reason sprinters go that way.


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## Kerry Irons (Feb 25, 2002)

*Hands up*



9.8m/s/s said:


> Sitting and climbing in them seems to be really efficient, but I've found that if I need to stand to crest a hill it becomes a problem. As soon as I stand my front wheel starts to wobble like crazy until I sit back down. If it matters, it never happens if I stand up in the hoods, or if I stay seated and pull in the drops.


As a general rule, you want to open up your lungs when climbing, so moving to the hoods or bar tops is recommened. You're going slower, so aerodynamics is not the issue.

As to your front wheel wobble, it sounds like you are too hunched over on the bike when you stand up with your hands in the drops. It's hard to control the bike if that is the case.


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## drummerboy1248 (Jan 6, 2005)

Sounds like you are too far out over the front of the bike. I think the road grade on a hill only exagerates the effect. I'm not real comfortable standing while in the drops and usually avoid it except in a sprint when I'm already in the drops. You might try moving your rear end back over the saddle to shift your weight back. I just can't see that as being a very efficient climbing position though. But everybody's different.


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## Mr. Versatile (Nov 24, 2005)

Standing while on the hoods seems quite natural to most riders. Not many stand while in the drops either climbing or when on level ground. If you'd like to I'd suggest some solo practice. Start on level ground using a gear that's too high to spin. Maybe 3 gears over what you'd normally be using at that given speed would be just about right. Stand carefully with your hands in the drops & pedal slowly. Don't accelerate, just get used to the feel of standing with your hands ion the drops. Go slow. Feel the bike sway left to right under you as you pedal & get a sense of how it reacts to the inputs you make. Pick up the speed slowly & ride like that for 100 meters or so. Did okay with that? Try it in a lower gear. Take your time & don't mash to get speed up too quickly. Keep on practicing. Practice makes better.


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## JCavilia (Sep 12, 2005)

These comments are interesting. I have no trouble standing while in the drops, whether climbing or sprinting on the flats, and whether cadence is high or low. Maybe it comes from doing a fair amount of fixed-gear riding on the road. I don't find it unstable, nor does it seem to interfere with breathing. And contrary to drummerboy's experience, I find it's most stable with weight quite far forward. YMMV


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## wim (Feb 28, 2005)

9.8m/s/s said:


> As soon as I stand my front wheel starts to wobble like crazy until I sit back down


Try to connect the wobble with something you're doing in terms of timing.

For example, if the wheel turns every time you push the pedal down, you're simply exerting an uneven backwards pull or (worse) push on the bars in time with your pedaling. It's a common fault. Sometimes you can even see it with people when they hammer hard while seated. The fix is to pull _up_ on the bar equally with both hands, or to not pull at all, but keep a loose grip.

FWIW, standing starts on the track in a relatively big gear require the rider to pull up hard on the bars to generate counterforce. The best way to not wobble the front wheel is to pull up equally hard both left and right until you get up some speed and sit down. You don't have to do the track-start forward lunge shown in this clip, but you can sense Chris Hoy's even pull-up on the bars.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P1AfJSrh1ME

Edit: the other possibility that occured to me just now is that you might be in too small a gear when you stand up. With not enough resistance from the pedal, your body "falls down" with every pedal stroke. As it does, it tilts the bike in time with these high-cadence, but really not very productive "air" pedal strokes.

/w


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## Hank Stamper (Sep 9, 2009)

Bike set up isn't consistant through all the people who address this topic on the interwebs so take it all with a grain of salt, OP.

Depending how your bike is set up, don't go forcing yourself to ride in the drops because a bunch of cyber speedsters equate it with being a fast and strong rider (not that anyone here is doing that, but you'll see that as the MO from time to time on other branches).

Us them when they give you an advantage......and for almost everyone climbing isn't one of those times.

Pretty much what Kerry Irons said. There's no meaningful gains to be had from being aero on a climb and it's taxing on the lungs so sucking air in to your lungs can be a priority because there's no speed penalty for putting your body in a position to do so.

I'm not suggesting everyone should just mimic the pros because it's apples and oranges but next time you get a chance to see a race on TV note when they are in the drops and not. Again bike set up is a factor when making any comparision of habits but you'll probably see that the drops are a 'when needed' thing not 'the more the better' type of position.


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## spade2you (May 12, 2009)

Keep in mind that Pantani had his bike set up a little different to allow him to climb in the drops. With most riders setting their drops somewhat low, I'd think this would be much more prohibiting than helpful.


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## JCavilia (Sep 12, 2005)

spade2you said:


> Keep in mind that Pantani had his bike set up a little different to allow him to climb in the drops. With most riders setting their drops somewhat low, I'd think this would be much more prohibiting than helpful.


He did indeed. I don't have an extreme saddle-to-bar drop, but I don't think it's quite Pantani's position (certainly not Pantani's climbing skill ;-)

And maybe I should correct a mis-impression I may have given. By saying that I'm comfortable standing with hands in the drops, I didn't mean to imply that I always or usually use that position when standing. Like most riders, when I climb standing I'm usually on the hoods or the bends. But sometimes for a brief maximum-power effort (finishing out the top of a climb and accelerating on the beginning of the descent, e.g.) I like the drops. And riding the fixed gear often means I want both an aero position and the ability to generate lots of torque safely at low rpm. Accelerating into a headwind, there's nothing better than down in the drops, way forward, chin hanging in front of the stem. 

Anyway, everybody's different, but anybody ought to be able to stand in the drops at least briefly and remain stable. When you need a jump quickly (close a gap, make the light, kick up the last bit of a climb), there's no substitute for standing, and if you're already in the drops you don't want to have to change hand position if you can avoid it.

I think Wim is onto something suggesting that high rpm and low gear is contributing to the problem. Try shifting a couple cogs smaller when you stand. You can learn to stand at high rpm, but it takes more practice. The fixed gear has forced me to improve all these skills, and Wim, being a trackie, has the same approach.

I once had a seat clamp bolt fail while commuting to work on a fixed gear. I removed the post and rode the rest of the way (just a few miles) standing. Very interesting being forced to stand and pedal constantly for minutes at a time, at widely varying cadences. Even with a lot of fixed experience it was remarkably hard not being able to coast and rest in that situation.


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