# Colnago C59



## apex

The new Colnago C59. I found this on cycling news. I wonder if this will replace the EPS. 

Apex

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## iyeoh

Yowzers... looks great... probably even more expensive... $10K for frame only... just kididng 

What's up with the big downtube decal? Going to way of Cervelo/Specialized

Looks to me to be a beefy sprinter's bike. They'll probably end doing a "Extreme C" superlight version as well... just speculating...


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## kjmunc

Good to see they're keeping lugged carbon in the forefront. Couple of things that strike me as a bit odd: 

-Internal cable routing? Looks like it creates quite the bend as it enters the downtube, and we all know how finicky 11spd is if you start bending those cables.

-Boxy chain stays? Interesting shape that doesn't get used much, as most favor some elliptical shape. I'm no engineer, but aren't square shapes a bit odd to use in an area with lots of torsional loads?

Interesting bike overall. Too bad they couldn't wait a year and then roll out a C60, but given their history of testing a year before rolling out the finished product to retail, that might be exactly what they are doing. My money says we'll see a C60 in 2011!


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## WrenchScienceCliff

Here's the link: http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/colnago-unveils-new-c59-at-the-giro-ditalia

Based on reading so far, here's what we can gather:

-Fully lugged carbon handmade in Italy
-960 gram frameset (for size 53)
-stiffer/lighter than the CX-1
-Internal cable routing
-Di2 ready, with placement for batt pack.
-manipulated tubing, looks bi-conical ala C-50
-looks like the trusty B-stay

You'll see the squared and polygonal tubing shapes widely adopted by high-end cycling engineers for stiffness. Looking around my showroom (and any pro peloton), I see examples of this everywhere: CX-1 chainstays, Dogma chainstays, Time RXR, BMC SLR, Merkx EMX-5, Look 595 Ultra et al. It is a trusted design for Colnago as well. The classic bi-conical manipulation you see on the Colnago C-50 and Mater-X creates a square profile. Even the EPS, which certainly looks round externally, makes use of internal ribs that mimic the reinforcing corners of square tubing!

...I'll let you know updates and ETA...


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## 1Cebu

Whew! My EPS looks so old already .....


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## JeremyP

this bike looks like a cx-1, who knows probably available only in sloping and made in taiwan i.e. pinarello, ep or c50 still the best, followed by the di2 eps


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## Karbon Kev

Give me the EPS and C50 anyday! The square tubing on this is nothing new, isn't this something Cervelo developed. I expected something more innovative and original from the big C must admit ...... there again, maybe this is a kind of prototype swaying the way for the C60, who knows .....


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## varian72

I'm liking it. Brings the C50 into today. Give me a PR00 and it's my dream bike. Lose b/n 1/2 and 1lb between the frame and fork alone is my guess. I will miss the opportunity to slap a Chris King on a C50, but I'll take the weight loss.

EPS, C59, CX-1, CLX 2.0....too big a gap b/n EPX and CX-1. Both are too racy to satisfy the 60 year old semi-retired.


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## icsloppl

kjmunc said:


> Good to see they're keeping lugged carbon in the forefront. Couple of things that strike me as a bit odd:
> 
> -Boxy chain stays? Interesting shape that doesn't get used much, as most favor some elliptical shape. I'm no engineer, but aren't square shapes a bit odd to use in an area with lots of torsional loads?


Surprised it's not used more actually. Sharp angles resist twisting.


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## WrenchScienceCliff

Talked with Colnago today and confirmed the previous post as well as the fact that it is being made in Italy.

-Fully lugged carbon handmade in Italy
-960 gram frameset (for size 53)
-stiffer/lighter than the CX-1
-Internal cable routing
-Di2 ready, with placement for batt pack.
-manipulated tubing, looks bi-conical ala C-50
-looks like the trusty B-stay


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## varian72

Mmmmm. Stiffer than the CX-1 which is supposed to be the stiffest Colnago.

I've never ridden a C50, but plush is generally a term that gets applied.


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## nicensleazy

As I understand it, this will NOT replace the EPS!


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## maximum7

It looks beautiful and probably outta my price range...
But,


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## 1Cebu

WrenchScienceCliff said:


> Talked with Colnago today and confirmed the previous post as well as the fact that it is being made in Italy.
> 
> -Fully lugged carbon handmade in Italy
> -960 gram frameset (for size 53)
> -stiffer/lighter than the CX-1
> -Internal cable routing
> -Di2 ready, with placement for batt pack.
> -manipulated tubing, looks bi-conical ala C-50
> -looks like the trusty B-stay



Any idea as to its possible price?


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## Clevor

1Cebu said:


> Any idea as to its possible price?


If it will be Colnago's highest end frame, what else? Probably $6,000. The prices seem to go up around $500/year for the latest and greatest from Colnago and Pinarello.


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## iyeoh

"Made in Italy" as in the Italian version of what constitutes being "Made in Italy" or the American version?


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## tmluk

I am very happy to see the C59 since I owned Colnagos for over 20 years.

Firstly, Colnago decided to bring back the Master profiling of the top and down tubes, aka bi-conic but Colnago bi-conic is little differenent than Master. My wifes Colnago Tecno has the bi-conic profile tubes and it is not the same as my Master. 

Secondly, Colnago retained the carbon lugs concept. The debate will continue but good to see not all bikes are made the same way.

Thirdly, I have another excuse to collect another Colnago bike with the Master profile tubes ... good luck to sell that to my wife!


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## fabsroman

tmluk said:


> I am very happy to see the C59 since I owned Colnagos for over 20 years.
> 
> Firstly, Colnago decided to bring back the Master profiling of the top and down tubes, aka bi-conic but Colnago bi-conic is little differenent than Master. My wifes Colnago Tecno has the bi-conic profile tubes and it is not the same as my Master.
> 
> Secondly, Colnago retained the carbon lugs concept. The debate will continue but good to see not all bikes are made the same way.
> 
> Thirdly, I have another excuse to collect another Colnago bike with the Master profile tubes ... good luck to sell that to my wife!


What do you mean by "bring back"? I guess they might be gone for the 2010 model year since the C50 was only available in the US.


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## iyeoh

The rear end reminds me of one of those $350 all-Toray carbon frames that I can buy from Hong Fu. Yes.. the same exact Toray carbon.. I guess $6000 is a fair price for the C59. I'll stick to steel Masters thank you, but they don't even use Columbus tubes anymore...


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## WrenchScienceCliff

The trademark crimped bi-conic tubes have always been part of the C-50, including the "2010" models (which are simply leftovers from 2009). The idea behind this tubing shape is that the squared profile is stiffer than a simple round tube. Pretty cool that Colnago has been doing this for decades and the squared tubing is now a widely adopted standard.
If you were to check out a cross section of an EPS main tube, you'd see 4 internal "ribs" that do the same job. 
Speaking of which- yes, the EPS tubes are from Toray, the world's leading CF supplier (Pinarello also puts an Italian flag beside the Toray name). The EPS lugs are proprietary and produced in Italy. Toray makes a wide range of carbon, of varying calibers, prices, and purposes. The tubing used by Colnago is of a specific quality and patented design that other Toray tubes (let alone other Taiwanese and Japanese factories) do not match. Colnago then adds value (geometry, lugs, paint, warranty, etc) when they take those Toray tubes and build a bike that is greater than the sum of its parts.


Also, here's some clarifications and updates about the C-59:
-release in December at earliest
-price will be higher than the EPS...tba
-standard English bottom bracket
-designed and built in Italy
-lugs are produced in Italy
-EPS is not being replaced by the C-59

I'll add updates to this thread as I find out more info.


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## tmluk

You are right. I had the impression that the Master profile carbon bikes are gone in favour of internal ribs and external round tubes.

Here is a link to the original Gilco Design tubes - classic beauty
http://www.gilcodesign.com/doc/GILCOdesignBICI.htm


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## WrenchScienceCliff

tmluk said:


> You are right. I had the impression that the Master profile carbon bikes are gone in favour of internal ribs and external round tubes.


Colnago's bi-conical tubing is here to stay - featured on the C-50, Master-X (road and pista) and even the (Taiwanese) CLX 2.0. And the C-59, of course...coming in December.


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## onefour02

iyeoh said:


> The rear end reminds me of one of those $350 all-Toray carbon frames that I can buy from Hong Fu. Yes.. the same exact Toray carbon.. I guess $6000 is a fair price for the C59. I'll stick to steel Masters thank you, but they don't even use Columbus tubes anymore...


you sound like my grandma.

how i wished she's still around.


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## iyeoh

onefour02 said:


> you sound like my grandma.
> 
> how i wished she's still around.


She sounds like a great woman. One of my neighbors recently built a full blown Chinese bike, and I tried it, and no matter how you may protest, its not too different riding from a Colnago. For real, but I hate it immensely for what it is.


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## nicensleazy

I'm interested to know how the C59 will compare along side the EPS. Looking at the weight of both frames, there isn't much in it. OK, the C59 is stiffer buy anyone who has swung a leg over an EPS will also know its a stiff frame with comfort. Personally, I love the bayleaf chainstays of the EPS and the rear end, I guess for me, it looks more Italian.


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## apex

Here is a link to a review of the C59. Enjoy.
http://www.colnago.cc/

Apex


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## knakhemel

Colnago retained the carbon lugs concept for three very good reasons reasons.

First it’s cheaper to build a frame. With this concept Colnago can build a frame in any size (even custom) with the same tubes.
Second, Colnago can repair a damaged frame.
Last year I crashed with my C50. During the crash one bottle cage was ripped from the down tube leaving two big holes behind. My LBS shipped my C50 to Italy. Within 10 weeks I got my C50 back with a new down tube and a new paint scheme. My C50 is as new. Costs: € 800. That’s about $1025. A monocoque frame in this case will be permanently destroyed.
Third, a lugged frame provides a more smooth ride while keeping it’s stiffness. A monocoque frame is not that forgiving. 


The top line Colnago bikes are actually made (designed and built) in Cambiago (Milano) Italy.
The carbon manufacturer ATR Srl provides Ferrari and Colnago with the same carbon material. 
In this case the top line represents the C35, C40, C50, C45, C59, Extreme-C, Extreme-Power (EP), Extreme-Power Super (EPS), Flight, the President, all the CF models and last but not least all the Master models. So, if you have one of the carbon models from above you actually own a Ferrari. Well, a two wheels version at least. D
All the other models are designed at the headquarters in Cambiago but were or will be built in Taiwan.


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## mtbbmet

knakhemel said:


> The carbon manufacturer ATR Srl provides Ferrari and Colnago with the same carbon material.


Wrong.
Japanese made Toray carbon. It's likely better than ATR, but that is another issue.


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## iyeoh

mtbbmet said:


> Wrong.
> Japanese made Toray carbon. It's likely better than ATR, but that is another issue.


And bigoted stuck up narrow minded poseur Freds like myself want an Italian bike, not some pariah mismash, but I guess that's not germane.


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## knakhemel

mtbbmet said:


> Wrong.
> Japanese made Toray carbon. It's likely better than ATR, but that is another issue.


I don’t know about the US models but the European Extremes and C-series all have carbon provided by ATR Srl, not Japanese made Toray carbon. I have this information from first hand from the man himself. That is the reason why Colnago makes the Cf models. Colnago For Ferrari. To celebrate their collaboration.


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## mtbbmet

knakhemel said:


> I don’t know about the US models but the European Extremes and C-series all have carbon provided by ATR Srl, not Japanese made Toray carbon. I have this information from first hand from the man himself. That is the reason why Colnago makes the Cf models. Colnago For Ferrari. To celebrate their collaboration.


You are mostly correct. ATR went under last year (or was it the year before?). Since then Colnago has been using Toray carbon. So the EPS has been made from this, and there is a pretty solid chance that the C59 will be also. I'm not sure when the change took place, but there may be a few C50's made from it too. But that is pure speculation.
My bigger question is who is making the Master tubing.


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## mtbbmet

knakhemel said:


> I don’t know about the US models but the European Extremes and C-series all have carbon provided by ATR Srl, not Japanese made Toray carbon. I have this information from first hand from the man himself. That is the reason why Colnago makes the Cf models. Colnago For Ferrari. To celebrate their collaboration.


And just so we are all on the same page here, the internets say that Toray is the current supplier of raw carbon to Ferrari, BMW, and now Dailmer/Benz. And they hold a 34% Global market share in production/supply of raw carbon yarn/fabric.


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## knakhemel

mtbbmet said:


> You are mostly correct. ATR went under last year (or was it the year before?). Since then Colnago has been using Toray carbon. So the EPS has been made from this, and there is a pretty solid chance that the C59 will be also. I'm not sure when the change took place, but there may be a few C50's made from it too. But that is pure speculation.
> My bigger question is who is making the Master tubing.


That is big news for me. Oh well it is still a Colnago.:thumbsup: 
The Master still get's his tubes from Columbus. You can find the info below on www.colnago.com at the Master X Light, along with the C59.
The Master X-Light's Columbus DT15V tubing gets its strength from chromium, molybdenum and vanadium alloying elements and is butted and shaped to our exact specifications.

If spotted the C59 for the first time at the Giro in my hometown Amsterdam during the timetrail the first day. Modolo from the colnago team was the first to ride the bike. The second day modolo crashed. aiaiai.....


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## ghostryder

Interesting, no bb30. Is that true?


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## mtbbmet

The Master has not been made with Columbus tubing for a few years. It is being supplied by an unknown, and unnamed source that Colnago claims is Italian and that the tubing is identical to what was being supplied by Columbus. I want a name.


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## knakhemel

mtbbmet said:


> The Master has not been made with Columbus tubing for a few years. It is being supplied by an unknown, and unnamed source that Colnago claims is Italian and that the tubing is identical to what was being supplied by Columbus. I want a name.


Check www.colnago.com
Under the section Materials if you select the Master.
It's there.


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## fabsroman

knakhemel said:


> Check www.colnago.com
> Under the section Materials if you select the Master.
> It's there.


This is what is there:

_There is no one perfect material for a bicycle frame. All have advantages and disadvantages. A very strong material might be very light, but fatigue too quickly for the repeated stresses of cycling. Or it might be simply too expensive for some riders’ budget. At Colnago we use a range of materials to balance these factors._

_The immense strength and versatility of carbon fiber has made it the most popular material for top-quality road racing bicycles. We use Toraya carbon fiber in a variety of grades and types according to the specific requirements of the frame or component._

_Our one-piece (monocoque) frames use pre-preg carbon cloth, laser-aligned in a mould and heated under pressure to form a seamless, strong, light unit._
_The EPS family uses lugged carbon construction which allows for tremendous versatility - it's the only way to offer 22 different sizes and custom options for a carbon fiber bicycle that fits perfectly._

_The first Colnago bicycles were made from steel and so steel is still close to our heart. The Master X-Light's *Columbus DT15V* tubing gets its strength from chromium, molybdenum and vanadium alloying elements and is butted and shaped to our exact specifications._

_Aluminum is a great material for less expensive frames. Its low density and relatively high strength for its cost allow it to be built into light, rigid frames that meet the needs of a wide range of riders. With the addition of carbon fiber stays and fork it can be tuned for comfort._

So, is it still Columbus tubing? I am sitting here scratching my head.


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## mtbbmet

fabsroman said:


> So, is it still Columbus tubing? I am sitting here scratching my head.


No, and there are posting on this forum by Colnago, and Colnago dealers stating the same.
Besides that, even if the tubing were still Columbus it would be made in Asia. So what's better? Asian Columbus tubing, or no name Italian tubing made to the same spec?


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## fabsroman

mtbbmet said:


> No, and there are posting on this forum by Colnago, and Colnago dealers stating the same.
> Besides that, even if the tubing were still Columbus it would be made in Asia. So what's better? Asian Columbus tubing, or no name Italian tubing made to the same spec?


That is why I am scratching my head. I have read several times on here that the Master XL tubing is no longer made by Columbus, but the 2011 Colnago website says that it is. Either somebody just did a cut and paste and forgot to verify the facts, or the tubing is still made by Columbus.


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## iyeoh

fabsroman said:


> That is why I am scratching my head. I have read several times on here that the Master XL tubing is no longer made by Columbus, but the 2011 Colnago website says that it is. Either somebody just did a cut and paste and forgot to verify the facts, or the tubing is still made by Columbus.


Its not. The sticker is no longer there for a very good reason. The question was asked by my usual Colnago dealer, and he's one of the authorized ones.


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## Gnarly 928

varian72 said:


> I'm liking it. Brings the C50 into today. Give me a PR00 and it's my dream bike. Lose b/n 1/2 and 1lb between the frame and fork alone is my guess. I will miss the opportunity to slap a Chris King on a C50, but I'll take the weight loss.
> 
> EPS, C59, CX-1, CLX 2.0....too big a gap b/n EPX and CX-1. Both are too racy to satisfy the 60 year old semi-retired.


 Dunno about the EPX but the CX-1 as "Too racy to satisfy the 60yr......" Not so...Just the right amount of rideability and still very racer friendly. My Masters team in the NW ride em, many saying it's the best all around and stage racing frame we've ever found. Not many are 60+ but we do have lottsa 40+ and the 50+ WC in TT...one 40+ just finished and won the Race Across Oregon in 39hrs on his CX-1...so you can sit on one long and ride fast...

"stiff, yet vertically compliant" just not fully "Made in Italy"..


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## campyhag

*c59*

Mike perry at Maestro has c59 for 2460 pounds, about 3800. Not bad when you consider frame, fork, headset and post. No idea what shipping is from UK.


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## iyeoh

campyhag said:


> Mike perry at Maestro has c59 for 2460 pounds, about 3800. Not bad when you consider frame, fork, headset and post. No idea what shipping is from UK.


As Americans, we have the privilege of paying $5,900 if we want warranty service.

Guess what? The street price in non-Japan Asia is even cheaper.

The shipping is ridiculously cheap whether from Mike at Maestro, Bellati Sport, Slane or elsewhere. You have it in 3 business days. 

But then, you won't have the opportunity to support a US retailer's large profit margins.

Like Mike says, price cartels are illegal. Merchandise is either commercially distributed in a legal fashion, with invoices, or it is stolen. Artificially inflating prices to fix profit margins, and then withhold warranties constitutes discriminating monopolistic practices.


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## campyhag

Wasnt aware of no warranty if bought from across the pond. Sounds similar to Campagnolo US situation. 5900 dollars opens up the world of custom carbon the vs 
the C59.


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## iyeoh

campyhag said:


> Wasnt aware of no warranty if bought from across the pond. Sounds similar to Campagnolo US situation. 5900 dollars opens up the world of custom carbon the vs
> the C59.


I think US custom carbon is actually cheaper.


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## campyhag

iyeoh said:


> I think US custom carbon is actually cheaper.



Crumpton is..........


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