# How dangerous is racing really?



## bill (Feb 5, 2004)

Like, really?
Yeah, yeah, yeah, we all have our thoughts and opinions, but anything objective?

I have gone down a few times racing -- most times, you get up, you bleed a little, you rue the scratches on the bike and the dings in your saddle, and you move on. 
I got one ambulance ride. Okay, that one was pretty bad. (fact is, though, that that wasn't technically racing).
My wife informs me that my racing days are numbered. Perhaps in negative numbers. She said that she has made her peace with the time commitment, but the danger is too great.
I have two kids, 11 and 7. I'm old, too -- (46). Started at, what, 43, I guess?  Really 44. A baby. 
I figure I have at best a few years left of doing this at any real performance level.
You know, when I'm in that box, finally, and it's just me, am I going to be happy or pissed that I listened to my wife (or not, as the case may be -- the debate ain't over)?


----------



## Fixed (May 12, 2005)

*depends*

I think it depends on a bunch of factors. One, I won't do crits anymore. That's probably the most dangerous. Two, I won't race in the rain. Just not fun and not worth it. Three, when I have and will race again, I'll stick with Masters, as we tend to be a bit more careful than some of the youngins -- we just don't like the pain and trips to the hospital anymore. 

Plus, even when road racing, I'm careful who I follow. I watch for others overlapping wheels, of course the greatest danger there is. I'll hang out a little from the direct draft. Stay alert, not push it to the extreme on the corners. 

There are always time trials and ultra racing...


----------



## vonteity (Feb 13, 2005)

Well, I haven't heard of anyone dying in a local race... yet.

Every time I hear that someone has died, a car is involved and it's not in a race situation. 

I'm not saying it's not possible, just highly unlikely that you'll die in a race. Break stuff, sure. Become a parapalegic? Quite possible... But you're unlikely to kick the bucket.

I'm young, though... and stupid. I haven't learned what fear is yet.


----------



## filtersweep (Feb 4, 2004)

Fixed said:


> I think it depends on a bunch of factors. One, I won't do crits anymore. That's probably the most dangerous. Two, I won't race in the rain. Just not fun and not worth it. Three, when I have and will race again, I'll stick with Masters, as we tend to be a bit more careful than some of the youngins -- we just don't like the pain and trips to the hospital anymore.
> 
> Plus, even when road racing, I'm careful who I follow. I watch for others overlapping wheels, of course the greatest danger there is. I'll hang out a little from the direct draft. Stay alert, not push it to the extreme on the corners.
> 
> There are always time trials and ultra racing...


That's odd... I prefer crits- even better in the rain- although I don't like the clean up afterwards. It seems people ride more conservatively, and the rain keeps the riff-raff away 

I believe road racing produces much more serious crashes- from what I've witnessed. The speeds tend to be higher- and someone always dozes off a bit.


----------



## Fixed (May 12, 2005)

*dead*



vonteity said:


> Well, I haven't heard of anyone dying in a local race... yet.
> 
> Every time I hear that someone has died, a car is involved and it's not in a race situation.
> 
> ...


There was a woman racer killed a couple of years ago in some east coast race. I can't rememeber who it was. 

--found it: Nicole Reinhart


----------



## magnolialover (Jun 2, 2004)

*This is the one that always gets me...*



Fixed said:


> I think it depends on a bunch of factors. One, I won't do crits anymore. That's probably the most dangerous. Two, I won't race in the rain. Just not fun and not worth it. Three, when I have and will race again, I'll stick with Masters, as we tend to be a bit more careful than some of the youngins -- we just don't like the pain and trips to the hospital anymore.
> 
> Plus, even when road racing, I'm careful who I follow. I watch for others overlapping wheels, of course the greatest danger there is. I'll hang out a little from the direct draft. Stay alert, not push it to the extreme on the corners.
> 
> There are always time trials and ultra racing...


People have this perception that crits are more dangerous. Not true I say. I've been in a bunch of races over the years, and the most serious crashes I have seen have been in long road races. No lying here. I've seen a lot of crashes in crits in races that I've been in, but 9.8 times out of 10, the person, or persons that crash in a crit, get up, go to the pit, get a free lap, and get back in. In road races this year and in the past I've seen people get carted away in ambulances, break legs, and do other very nasty things to themselves and others. Crits are no more dangerous that just good old regular road races, and in my experience (300+ races over the last 5 years) the worst crashes have been in road races. Racing in the rain, not so bad if you know how to do it, and as someone else said, it tends to keep the riff raff away from race day.

Masters racing tends to be a lot smoother in my opinion. A lot of those guys have been racing for eons and eons. They know how to ride, and they know how to race. Jump in some master's races, and you'll see what I mean. A lot of times master's racing is faster than say your local cat. 3 race, because a lot of those guys are 1s and 2s who have been around for a long time, and are still very strong.

The original poster said he started racing at 44. My friend, you have a long time to race. Here in the Southeast, you might see such guys named Kent Bostick (well into his mid 50's), David LeDuc (known as the "Old Man"), and a whole slew of other guys over 50 who will line up for the master's races early in the day, and then go recover, and come back and race in the Pro 1-2 races later. And most times they do very well, if not win, either or both races.

Tell your wife bike racing is a lot safer than say, driving your car for instance. A WHOLE lot safer. It's probably even more safe than just walking down the street for crying out loud. And the health benefits you gain from racing your bike, I think, far outweigh any possible harm that can come to you, except for at the extreme ends of things.


----------



## vonteity (Feb 13, 2005)

Fixed said:


> There was a woman racer killed a couple of years ago in some east coast race. I can't rememeber who it was.
> 
> --found it: Nicole Reinhart


I didn't say it's never happened. I said it's unlikely!

Yes, she died. She was a pro. It wasn't local and it wasn't recently.

Everyone always has to come up with an "I told you so"...


----------



## Fixed (May 12, 2005)

*no*



vonteity said:


> I didn't say it's never happened. I said it's unlikely!
> 
> Yes, she died. She was a pro. It wasn't local and it wasn't recently.
> 
> Everyone always has to come up with an "I told you so"...


"Every time I hear that someone has died, a car is involved and it's not in a race situation."

More like a "data point" than an "I told you so."


----------



## team_sheepshead (Jan 17, 2003)

von has a point. around nyc, training is more dangerous than racing. we've had at least 10 cyclists killed this year on the streets. no one killed in a race, except for a pedestrian. a time trial rider hit a homeless man and killed him. the rider was relatively ok.

you have to know your local scene and race accordingly. spring is hyperdangerous here because you've got rusty racers and newbies (guys racing the courses for the first time). in march and april, there was a crash in nearly every one of my races. things mellow out in may, june and july. august gets squirrely again, because you have cat. 5s moving up to cat. 4, plus guys are really peaking, so the speeds increase. 

races in our parks (one with a 3-mile loop, one with a 6-mile loop) are most dangerous. road races around here seem to be very safe. i stay away from crits.


----------



## vonteity (Feb 13, 2005)

Fixed said:


> "Every time I hear that someone has died, a car is involved and it's not in a race situation."
> 
> More like a "data point" than an "I told you so."


Seeing as Nicole Reinhart died 5 years ago and I wasn't even on a bike then... it is accurate for me to say "Every time I hear that someone has died, a car is involved and it's not in a race situation."

Thanks for the "data point".  I don't think it's applicable to this thread, unless the OP is planning on racing national level pro events any time soon.


----------



## Spunout (Aug 12, 2002)

Take out a heap of life insurance, she'll be happy to let you go race.

Agree, I've seen worse crashes in road races, on a straight stretch...than in any crit. Race alot, stay out of the 4/5s.


----------



## vonteity (Feb 13, 2005)

Fixed said:


> Ok, technically "not on a bike"... I thought the point was whether people get killed in races. It's definitely rare, but it does happen. Not to be too contrarian, but how is it that your statement is accurate (unless you never heard of her dying)?


Uhm... I know what happened. I said that *I* was not on a bike at that time (and therefore wouldn't have heard of it at the time), I did not say that *she* was not on a bike.

Really, there is no argument here. The OP is not going to be racing national level pro events anytime soon, from what I gather.

If you want to advocate staying out of racing because of one _freak accident_, by all means. Don't let me step on your toes...


----------



## Fixed (May 12, 2005)

*not on a bike?*



vonteity said:


> Seeing as Nicole Reinhart died 5 years ago and I wasn't even on a bike then... it is accurate for me to say "Every time I hear that someone has died, a car is involved and it's not in a race situation."
> 
> Thanks for the "data point".  I don't think it's applicable to this thread, unless the OP is planning on racing national level pro events any time soon.


Ok, technically "not on a bike"... I thought the point was whether people get killed in races. It's definitely rare, but it does happen. Not to be too contrarian, but how is it that your statement is accurate (unless you never heard of her dying)?

Cycling champ hits tree, dies

Nicole Reinhart, a two-time U.S. track-racing champion, was killed Sunday when *she was thrown from her bicycle and struck a tree during the final lap of a race * in Arlington, Mass. Race organizer Shawn McBride said a videotape showed that Reinhart, 24, of Mertztown, Pa., racing in the lead pack, was squeezed by other riders just before a turn. 

"There were too many riders and too little space," McBride said. Reinhart was taken to Mount Auburn Hospital in Cambridge, where she died. 

"This cuts very deep through the whole cycling family," said Philip Milburn, the chief operating officer of USA Cycling, the sport's national and Olympic governing body. 

The race was the final event of the 17-race Saturn Professional Tour, which Reinhart was leading. She had won the previous three races in this year's four-event BMC Software Grand Prix, a road-racing event. She would have received a $250,000 bonus if she had won Sunday's race. 

The money instead will be used to establish a foundation in her memory, McBride said. 

At the Olympic velodrome in Sydney, U.S. team officials didn't tell two of Reinhart's friends from Pennsylvania, Marty Nothstein and Tanya Lindenmuth, until they had competed in qualifying races Monday morning (Sunday night EDT). 

"Nicole raced with us and knew so many of the Olympic team members. It really hit all of us very hard," said Sean Petty, director of the U.S. Olympic team. 

"She was one of the top five to 10 cyclists in the country," McBride said.


----------



## iktome (Aug 29, 2003)

vonteity said:


> Thanks for the "data point".  I don't think it's applicable to this thread, unless the OP is planning on racing national level pro events any time soon.


A young racer died this year at a crit in Wisconsin.

http://www.usatoday.com/news/nation/2005-05-14-organ-donor_x.htm


----------



## vonteity (Feb 13, 2005)

iktome said:


> A young racer died this year at a crit in Wisconsin.
> 
> http://www.usatoday.com/news/nation/2005-05-14-organ-donor_x.htm


Yup, it happens! Still unlikely... which was my original point. You have a much better chance of dying in training than dying in an actual race situation.


----------



## bahueh (May 11, 2004)

*unfortunately, it happens....*



vonteity said:


> Well, I haven't heard of anyone dying in a local race... yet.
> 
> Every time I hear that someone has died, a car is involved and it's not in a race situation.
> 
> ...


early august of this year, local Oregon Race.

http://www.oregonlive.com/obituaries/oregonian/index.ssf?/base/obits/112133524691280.xml&coll=7

unlikely is rigth, but still very easily done. Chuck was a great guy from what I understand.


----------



## bill (Feb 5, 2004)

> The OP is not going to be racing national level pro events anytime soon, from what I gather.


i'm insulted oh ye of little faith..

I think I remember hearing about a Cat 4 either dying or suffering quadriplegia last year.

but it's not very likely.

true calamity, real tragedy, probably isn't a realistic worry, more than with anything else. it's more about extended disability. my own broken butt cost me little more than a week of work, some disturbingly heft co-pays, a couple of months with a cane, and a bye from doing the lawn for a while. Some consider me lucky.

and the kicker is that I'm not sure my risk goes down all that much with staying out of racing. I agree with von, many of the worst injuries seem to happen other when not racing. that's probably just a numbers game, though (fewer miles racing than rec riding total).

I guess that there are less dangerous things to do. 
and more dangerous things, probably, too.
any objective data?


----------



## bill (Feb 5, 2004)

I've been doing mostly masters racing. MUCH more fun than 4/5. The odd thing is that I end up contributing a lot more in Masters than in most any 4/5 or 3/4 races -- I'm not sure why, because the Masters usually are faster. Field size, maybe? But I digress.
I agree that crit crashing is more frequent but maybe less harmful than road crashes.


----------



## SkiRacer55 (Apr 29, 2005)

*There's another way to look at this...*

...which is define "dangerous", which is usually different strokes for different folks. What possible outcomes can you live with and which ones _can't_ you live with? I used to bike race a little until I realized that (a) my (ahem) strength to weight ratio _probably wasn't _ optimal for bike racing of any kind and (b) I wasn't real interested in taking a trip to McDonald's...and what I saw was _at least _ one person picking up a little road rash in every race. On the other hand, my winter competitive sport is Master's alpine ski racing. Trust me, Bad Things can happen there, but in general, when you hit snow, you slide...which I can live with...instead of peeling off a layer of epidermis...which I can't live with.


----------



## magnolialover (Jun 2, 2004)

*I've taken...*



SkiRacer55 said:


> ...which is define "dangerous", which is usually different strokes for different folks. What possible outcomes can you live with and which ones _can't_ you live with? I used to bike race a little until I realized that (a) my (ahem) strength to weight ratio _probably wasn't _ optimal for bike racing of any kind and (b) I wasn't real interested in taking a trip to McDonald's...and what I saw was _at least _ one person picking up a little road rash in every race. On the other hand, my winter competitive sport is Master's alpine ski racing. Trust me, Bad Things can happen there, but in general, when you hit snow, you slide...which I can live with...instead of peeling off a layer of epidermis...which I can't live with.


I've taken some really good licks when it comes to ski racing. For instance, this one time I went to a slalom USSA event, forgot my shin guards, and wouldn't let my competitive fire burn lower, went gate to shin for a 65 gate course, 2 runs, and came home with some really bad wounds. So yeah, you can lose some skin in ski racing as well. Not to mention to numerous stitches I've received in my chin over the years, the dislocated shoulder from getting too close to a Super-G gate at 70+ MPH, the GS gate I took in the nutsack (I think that one might have been the worst one), and of course burning a piece of my GS suit into my leg after falling and the friction taking its toll on the outer layer... 

I've gone down many times in bike racing, and expect to go down some more, but I've exerpience for more pain in ski racing over the years. Road rash, I can deal with for the most part. A slalom flush to the groin, now that sucks.


----------



## vonteity (Feb 13, 2005)

iktome said:


> And how on earth could you possibly know that?


An educated guess based upon the number of cyclists I've heard of dying in each situation.

No hard data to back it up, but this is RBR, not a medical journal.


----------



## Spunout (Aug 12, 2002)

Von, add me to you sample: I race, I am not dead.

OP: Go race!


----------



## iktome (Aug 29, 2003)

vonteity said:


> You have a much better chance of dying in training than dying in an actual race situation.


And how on earth could you possibly know that?


----------



## iktome (Aug 29, 2003)

vonteity said:


> An educated guess based upon the number of cyclists I've heard of dying in each situation.
> 
> No hard data to back it up, but this is RBR, not a medical journal.


So you considered the number of cyclists that participate in "training" versus racing, the number of miles traveled or hours spent in each type of cycling, and the number of deaths that occur in each to come up with a "chance of dying" educated guess?

Or should we just assume that you make stuff up?


----------



## vonteity (Feb 13, 2005)

iktome said:


> So you considered the number of cyclists that participate in "training" versus racing, the number of miles traveled or hours spent in each type of cycling, and the number of deaths that occur in each to come up with a "chance of dying" educated guess?
> 
> Or should we just assume that you make stuff up?


Yes. And I make stuff up, too.

Sometimes just to screw with people like you.


----------



## filtersweep (Feb 4, 2004)

Fixed said:


> There was a woman racer killed a couple of years ago in some east coast race. I can't rememeber who it was.
> 
> --found it: Nicole Reinhart


A guy died in the Firehouse 50 last year. I raced in it the previous year and had never seen so much carnage.


----------



## biknben (Jan 28, 2004)

I've always said that you are most likely to crash during a race or a group ride. The larger the group, the greater the likelihood of a crash. I think it is really as simple as that. Road races and crits have the same potential for disaster. It's just a little different.

If you let crashing distract you then it's time to get a TT bike.

I actually enjoy crits. I've got a 6 corner, .6 Mi loop crit this weekend. Woohoo!!! Now if I could just become a better sprinter...


----------



## Argentius (Aug 26, 2004)

Eh, race.

So says this young-and-immortal.

Seriously, I think we're better protected in races with either closed courses or lead / follow cars than training alone on the road. Cyclist-collides-with-other-cyclist or sober-cyclist-hits-solid-object are (from what I've read) a LOT less likely to be fatal or seriously harmful than car-collides-with-cyclist.

Sure, any ACTIVE sport can get you hurt or killed; but if I were her I'd be happy you were (I'm guessing here from you being a bike racer) in shape, didn't smoke, ate a reasonable diet, etc. The odds of your dying before your time from bike racing compared to smoking and obesity aren't even worth counting.


----------



## clgtide1 (Jul 24, 2002)

*Near Death*



magnolialover said:


> People have this perception that crits are more dangerous. Not true I say. I've been in a bunch of races over the years, and the most serious crashes I have seen have been in long road races. No lying here. I've seen a lot of crashes in crits in races that I've been in, but 9.8 times out of 10, the person, or persons that crash in a crit, get up, go to the pit, get a free lap, and get back in. In road races this year and in the past I've seen people get carted away in ambulances, break legs, and do other very nasty things to themselves and others. Crits are no more dangerous that just good old regular road races, and in my experience (300+ races over the last 5 years) the worst crashes have been in road races. Racing in the rain, not so bad if you know how to do it, and as someone else said, it tends to keep the riff raff away from race day.
> 
> Masters racing tends to be a lot smoother in my opinion. A lot of those guys have been racing for eons and eons. They know how to ride, and they know how to race. Jump in some master's races, and you'll see what I mean. A lot of times master's racing is faster than say your local cat. 3 race, because a lot of those guys are 1s and 2s who have been around for a long time, and are still very strong.
> 
> ...


The closest I have ever felt to death on a bike was trying to follow Kent Bostick up the Cherohalla Skyway. Brutal 25 mile climb with a sag half way up........I swear I could see me heart pounding through my jersey just before I cracked. He finished the 115 mile ride in around 5:50 thia year. I am close to your age and my wife constantly reminds me not to kill myself when I race. I saw 2 guys ahead of me last year scream down a mountain and flip still clipped to bikes over the hay bales. Through some miracle one of the 2 actually finished. The other guy got a free ride to the hospital. I feel much safer racing than on our weekly Tuesday Night World's where every week some jacka$$ tries to play Mario Cippolini. Just my opinion.....


----------



## wasfast (Feb 3, 2004)

vonteity said:


> Yup, it happens! Still unlikely... which was my original point. You have a much better chance of dying in training than dying in an actual race situation.


Perhaps it depends on the original poster's definition of dangerous. Can you get killed in a race? Yes. Is it likely? no. Is the standard sort of pack crashing in 5's etc dangerous? Well it comes back to what you think dangerous is.

I've not raced since the late 70's but crashed several times including at 77 Nats in Seattle on the track. That hurt...alot but it was mostly road rash and some sore muscles. 

However, my best friend died from injuries from a crash at a Crit in Washington state in 1978. He endo'd somehow coming out of a corner, landed on the back of his head and broke his neck. He died of fluid in his lungs the next week which was probably merciful as he had severe brain damage as well and would have been declared a vegetable. He was an honors student with a 4.0 in both High School and pre med at Portland State. I miss him to this day.

Is racing dangerous? I think it is but so are many things. With a family like the poster has, I'd be thinking alot more about them than some desire to race bicycles but that's me.


----------



## steelbikerider (Feb 7, 2005)

*racing and family*

What's important to you - family, racing, fitness, job, weekends with the guys, going fast etc?
I raced for 10-12 years and was a cat2 eventually (field filler) but stopped when it was time to start raising a family. How much will racing affect that relationship. Your kids are getting to the age where they will need a driver to take them everywhere and will want you there even if they don't acknowledge it. Sooner or later if you race often enough there will probably be a big one - broken bone, severe road rash or injury that will limit yo for a while. Then you have to have enough good credit with the family to be able to continue after you heal. 

I have compromised. I'm 46 now with a wife and 13 year old. I no longer race and try to minimize the risk but still ride hard. I ride with a group of ex-racers and go fast guys. We make sure new-comers can handle a bike when they ride with us, sprint to signs and are generally racing but careful. Even so, an experienced rider switched over and nearly took me down in a friendly sprint recently. It rubbed off all the labels on my front tire. 

If I raced, My weekend rides would be spent driving all day to a 45 min crit or 2 hr RR. I get in more road time just riding club rides and do the occasional charity ride, also with my club or other riding buddies I know. I'm actually enjoying riding now more than ever.


----------



## Fixed (May 12, 2005)

*statistics*



vonteity said:


> Yes. And I make stuff up, too.
> 
> Sometimes just to screw with people like you.


"76.2% of all statistics are made up on the spot."


----------



## Fixed (May 12, 2005)

*sorry*



vonteity said:


> Uhm... I know what happened. I said that *I* was not on a bike at that time (and therefore wouldn't have heard of it at the time), I did not say that *she* was not on a bike.


Sorry, I misread your post.

I would never avoid racing for fear of dying. That's so rare, it doesn't worry me one bit. I do worry about getting banged up badly, though. Around here, almost every single weekend of racing I hear about someone going down, with injuries ranging from road rash to broken legs, collar bones, and concussions. 

Over all, I think it is more likely to be injured training, but then I'd think that even for the most dedicated racer, the training mileage is probably 10 times the racing mileage, especially for a crit racer. As far as injuries per rider/mile, it appears to me (as with others, nothing more than informed speculation) that racing is a lot more likely to cause an injury from a crash than training, per rider/mile. 

One thing that is good is that rider/car accidents seem to be a lot less in racing, particularly with closed courses (of course). I fear that rider/car interface much more than rider/rider or rider/road.


----------



## bill (Feb 5, 2004)

none of you guys are making my wife sound crazy.
come on!! 
she's crazy!!!!
I can't give it up. I like it too much -- I keep improving, and it all makes me feel good. Mid-life crisis? Absolutely. Healthy mid-life crisis? Sure, why not?
My wife actually said, screw the racing, get the mistress.
she probably meant screw the mistress, but that would be indecorous.


----------



## bas (Jul 30, 2004)

broken collarbones, hips, legs.. it happens

some guy recently died this year in the northwest states going for a sprint

i'd just make sure you have good insurance




bill said:


> Like, really?
> Yeah, yeah, yeah, we all have our thoughts and opinions, but anything objective?
> 
> I have gone down a few times racing -- most times, you get up, you bleed a little, you rue the scratches on the bike and the dings in your saddle, and you move on.
> ...


----------



## TurboTurtle (Feb 4, 2004)

steelbikerider said:


> What's important to you - family, racing, fitness, job, weekends with the guys, going fast etc?
> I raced for 10-12 years and was a cat2 eventually (field filler) but stopped when it was time to start raising a family. How much will racing affect that relationship. Your kids are getting to the age where they will need a driver to take them everywhere and will want you there even if they don't acknowledge it. Sooner or later if you race often enough there will probably be a big one - broken bone, severe road rash or injury that will limit yo for a while. Then you have to have enough good credit with the family to be able to continue after you heal.
> 
> I have compromised. I'm 46 now with a wife and 13 year old. I no longer race and try to minimize the risk but still ride hard. I ride with a group of ex-racers and go fast guys. We make sure new-comers can handle a bike when they ride with us, sprint to signs and are generally racing but careful. Even so, an experienced rider switched over and nearly took me down in a friendly sprint recently. It rubbed off all the labels on my front tire.
> ...


IMHO, there is nothing more dangerous than street racing. I think you went the wrong direction if your reason was to stay a provider for your family. - TF


----------



## AMvision (Nov 3, 2004)

bill said:


> none of you guys are making my wife sound crazy.
> come on!!
> she's crazy!!!!
> I can't give it up. I like it too much -- I keep improving, and it all makes me feel good. Mid-life crisis? Absolutely. Healthy mid-life crisis? Sure, why not?
> ...




Don't call it a mid-life crisis! Racing rocks, shame you did not discover it sooner. If she wants you to quit this, make her quit something (a hobbie) she loves to do.


fair's fair.


----------



## bill (Feb 5, 2004)

> make her quit something (a hobbie) she loves to do.


I'm afraid that the hobby she'd quit doing is moi.


----------



## benInMA (Jan 22, 2004)

Bottom line is bike racing is very very dangerous compared to most other fitness activities. Compare it to something like going to the gym and lifting weights and it looks very dangerous.

And your luck will run out at some point. I had gone 5 years without a crash and then I just recently crashed twice in August which pretty much knocked the wind out of my sails and I've pretty much ended my season. (May do a little cross or a MTB race though) First one was a massive pileup, I almost stopped but still got caught up in the crash and flipped over the bars. I broke my eyeglasses and was all rashed and bruised up, if I had a wife and kids it would have negatively affected the family. 2nd Crash was more my fault but luckily I did not get injured as bad, just lots of road rash.

I could have sworn there was a rider killed in a crit in the last couple months that was discussed on this site in detail. Rider was doing a race on an auto racing course and hit a concrete pole and died.

Between racing and Marshsalling I was at about 20 races this year. I think I saw at least one crash ever weekend and 4-5 times the ambulance came. One crash involved 3 ambulances. In my experience bicycle racing is as bad as motorcycle racing and is more dangerous then just about every other sport out there. And at least the motorcycle racers don't end up with road rash. They either don't get hurt, get bruised, or they break the same bones we do. Cyclists seem to break just as many bones but we get stuck with the road rash on top of the bumps & bruises and breaks.

There are probably more soccer/football/baseball injuries but there are also like 100x as many people playing in the US.

Ben


----------



## AMvision (Nov 3, 2004)

bill said:


> I'm afraid that the hobby she'd quit doing is moi.




I see. Well, stick to rec. riding, which may have in her mind, a safer rep.
You can always take a trip out to see a major national race, a pro race. Heck! they are fun to watch and have lots of food and drink (fun for the whole family).

win some, lose some.

AM.


----------



## goldsbar (Apr 24, 2002)

benInMA said:


> ...(May do a little cross or a MTB race though)...
> 
> In my experience bicycle racing is as bad as motorcycle racing and is more dangerous then just about every other sport out there. And at least the motorcycle racers don't end up with road rash. They either don't get hurt, get bruised, or they break the same bones we do. Cyclists seem to break just as many bones but we get stuck with the road rash on top of the bumps & bruises and breaks.
> 
> Ben


I like your comment about MTB racing. The general population thinks MTB racing is very dangerous. I always try to tell people that *most* falls on a MTB don't result in anything more than a few scrapes. Road crashes, on the other hand...

Have to disagree on the motorcycle thing. Ask the experts - life insurance companies. They don't seem to mind if you own a motorcycle but they're ready to hit you with a nice increase if you race or even ride your bike on a track. I never understood it as most people argue the track is safer (never ridden on the track myself) but the insurance companies have the statistics. Read a motorcycle message board for a couple of weeks if you want to see some death announcements.


----------



## benInMA (Jan 22, 2004)

goldsbar said:


> I like your comment about MTB racing. The general population thinks MTB racing is very dangerous. I always try to tell people that *most* falls on a MTB don't result in anything more than a few scrapes. Road crashes, on the other hand...
> 
> Have to disagree on the motorcycle thing. Ask the experts - life insurance companies. They don't seem to mind if you own a motorcycle but they're ready to hit you with a nice increase if you race or even ride your bike on a track. I never understood it as most people argue the track is safer (never ridden on the track myself) but the insurance companies have the statistics. Read a motorcycle message board for a couple of weeks if you want to see some death announcements.


I've ridden on the track a bit and hung out at the races a lot. Motorcycle racing really is about the same as bicycle road racing from what I've seen. There will be a crash every 3-4 races, usually the guy gets up with superficial wounds. Every year you'll see a few people break a limb or something, and truly awful injuries happen but not often enough to scare the crap out of everyone. Motorcycle racing is more like cross or MTB racing, the riders usually don't stay all that tight, there is no peloton. The peloton is what makes road racing so dangerous.

The life insurance stuff probably has more to do with the life insurance people basing their numbers on street motorcycle riding. Motorcycle racing used to be more dangerous then it is now, but in any case there are so few people doing it that the stats aren't very accurate. Street motorcycle riding is totally different as street motorcyclists usually wear the same protective gear as bicyclists while averaging about 2-3x the speed of a bicyclist, typically won't wear helmets all that often, don't have much training, and don't stay near an ambulance. Crashes on the track that lead to superficial wounds are life threatening when they happen on the street with an uprotected rider. In a motorcycle race the ambulance is typically there with 2-3 EMTs helping the crashed rider in maybe 1-2 minutes. BTW motorcycle racers usually have their own insurance setup outside of the standard life insurance setup, just like USCF gives some insurance to bicycle racers.

But enough about motorcycles... yah I have crashed a lot more on the MTB, but the wounds have always been totally superficial. I remember crashing 4x in one MTB race years ago when I was a pretty bad rider, and in the end I had less cuts & bruises then any single road crash. Cyclocross seems like the safest of all 2-wheeled racing unless you make a habit of trying to bunnyhop barriers. You get separation like a MTB race, slower speeds then road racing, and it is less technical then MTB racing, fewer chances to endo or crash due to rocks, logs, etc.. 

Only bicycle road racing puts you at speeds up to 50mph with basically no protective gear, surrounded in close proximity with other competitors who can take you out at a moments notice.


----------

