# Need a triple on Montebello?



## glenk (May 26, 2005)

Can a normal but in-shape rider make it up Montebello with 39/25 seated?

tnx,
glenk


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## Woofer (Nov 18, 2004)

What does normal mean? How much do you weigh and how old are you? Why is your goal to remain seated the whole time?


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## mohair_chair (Oct 3, 2002)

glenk said:


> Can a normal but in-shape rider make it up Montebello with 39/25 seated?
> 
> tnx,
> glenk


No. You can't do the whole thing seated.


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## johnny99 (Apr 2, 2004)

I know some middle aged women recreational riders who ride up Montebello in a 39x25, but not seated all the way. On a hill that long, you probably don't want to sit the whole way. Standing periodically will improve your blood circulation and let you use rest some muscles.


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## Francis Cebedo (Aug 1, 2001)

Seated?? Pretty darn tough.

The grades in the first 2 miles of the climb are 10-12%.

When I first started riding Montebello, I had a triple chainring and it wasn no cakewalk. I could not imagine doing it with a double chainring.

Fastforward a couple of years and I got ordained into the church of singlespeeding on mountain bikes. This got me used to hardship and got me stronger legs.

Now I can double chainring it but it is a grunt with some standing efforts.

francois


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## glenk (May 26, 2005)

I'm 51 years old at 155lb, have bad knees and prefer to spin. I remember going up Montebello successfully with a mtb bike but then I had the option to use 22/32. My new road bike has the advantage of less weight and certainly less rolling resistance but would that make up for the lower gearing my mtb bike had? I guess only trying it will tell.

While I was up there enjoying the view, I was amazed to see a gal make it up with a double front, so I know it can be done but I don't know if she/others did it standing, took rests, or simply used switch backs.

When I say I made a climb (I've done some 25% grades), I like to say I've done them sitting and without resting.

glenk


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## mohair_chair (Oct 3, 2002)

Not too brag (too much), but I usually do it in a 39x23, with no rests, no switchbacks, and after climbing Pierce Road and Mt Eden to get there. Then I climb over Mt Eden and Pierce to get back home. Most everyone I see on Montebello is using a double, except for the mountain bikers, and I've never seen anyone shoe lacing it. 

I don't know why you would insist on doing any hard climb seated, but if that is your goal, you are going to need some pretty low gears.


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## Francis Cebedo (Aug 1, 2001)

glenk said:


> I'm 51 years old at 155lb, have bad knees and prefer to spin. I remember going up Montebello successfully with a mtb bike but then I had the option to use 22/32. My new road bike has the advantage of less weight and certainly less rolling resistance but would that make up for the lower gearing my mtb bike had? I guess only trying it will tell.
> 
> While I was up there enjoying the view, I was amazed to see a gal make it up with a double front, so I know it can be done but I don't know if she/others did it standing, took rests, or simply used switch backs.
> 
> ...


If you've done 25% grades on a double sitting, then you'll have no problem.

Is your style of climbing always seated? In that case, our experience might be different from yours.

Standing on climbs is one of the pleasures of roadbiking for me. It relieves my muscles and pressure points on my body. It's also how I tame an unwieldy, incosistent climb like Page Mill. I can also relax now while standing and go for 10 minutes out of the saddle in a relaxed dance.

francois


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## glenk (May 26, 2005)

*bad knees*

Thanks mohair_chair and francois for sharing your experiences.

mohair_chair: Yes, I've done Pierce Road and that's your warmup for Montebello? Amazin, I think I would be pretty well spent by then.


No, I happened to be riding on Foothill Expressway when I tagged behind a few mtb'rs that turned on to Montebello to get to the back side of Rancho, I really didn't know what I was getting into but managed to make it up with them, I believe I was spinning my way up with the 22/32 in some sections. I'm going to try it now with the road bike and let's see.

Because of my bad knees caused from too much blacktop basketball and early days of jogging with poor shoes, I ride seated almost 100%. I've found I can't stand very long without having my calves bother me, so do you use muscles that don't normally get used while seated?

There are 25% grades on Lindy Lane and pass Ronnie Lott's house in Cupertino and some 20% grades to the top of Regnart Road that are by my house. I use those as aerobic exercise using 22/32. You'd have to be some kind of rider to go up in 39/25. BTW, I bought the inclinometer that Chainreaction Cycles sells as a gauge.

Well anyways, thanks for the comments.

glenk


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## Woofer (Nov 18, 2004)

glenk said:


> Thanks mohair_chair and francois for sharing your experiences.
> 
> mohair_chair: Yes, I've done Pierce Road and that's your warmup for Montebello? Amazin, I think I would be pretty well spent by then.
> 
> ...


What type of knee problem? 

For my particular knee problem, it's better for me to stand when it bothers me. Climbing seated tends to put more stress on the knee. This is what an orthopedic surgeon and a physical therapist told me but they could have been wrong. You could be making your knees worse to save your calf muscles some work.


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## glenk (May 26, 2005)

*Osteoarthritis of the knee*

My knees make terrible noises when I squat, it's embarrassing at times.

I was told to stay away from heavy loads on my knees, therefore no mashing and I avoid standing as well.

I'll give Montebello a try perhaps next weekend. This weekend will be Tour de Peninsula for me. Nice sedate ride.

glenk


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## Woofer (Nov 18, 2004)

glenk said:


> My knees make terrible noises when I squat, it's embarrassing at times.
> 
> I was told to stay away from heavy loads on my knees, therefore no mashing and I avoid standing as well.
> 
> ...


That's not normal as you put it in the original post. Take a mountain bike.


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## Rushfan (Apr 20, 2003)

Woofer said:


> What type of knee problem?
> 
> For my particular knee problem, it's better for me to stand when it bothers me. Climbing seated tends to put more stress on the knee. This is what an orthopedic surgeon and a physical therapist told me but they could have been wrong. You could be making your knees worse to save your calf muscles some work.


Just to add to the discussion, I had a partial ACL tear which led to biking. I found that I had difficulty standing, but that was mainly from atrophy in my thighs and the muscles around my bad knee. As I rehabbed the knee, got in shape, and actually practiced, it became much easier to ride out of the saddle.


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## glenk (May 26, 2005)

Yes, Rushfan. My doctor told me I'd get worse if I didn't do anything, thus I picked up on cycling as well. Your experience is the same for physical therapy, some pain is some gain. I may increase the stress as well over time.

No Woofer, I wussed out and configured my new roadbike with 26/36/46 triple and 12/27 in the rear. I should be able to do it with that, don't you think? I'll try to stay in the middle ring if I can.


Regards all,
glenk


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## Rushfan (Apr 20, 2003)

glenk said:


> Yes, Rushfan. My doctor told me I'd get worse if I didn't do anything, thus I picked up on cycling as well. Your experience is the same for physical therapy, some pain is some gain. I may increase the stress as well over time.
> 
> No Woofer, I wussed out and configured my new roadbike with 26/36/46 triple and 12/27 in the rear. I should be able to do it with that, don't you think? I'll try to stay in the middle ring if I can.
> 
> ...


I've found it's best to spin as much as possible. My knee balks even three years later if I try to grind it out...


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## shanedawg (Aug 3, 2005)

glenk said:


> My knees make terrible noises when I squat, it's embarrassing at times.
> 
> I was told to stay away from heavy loads on my knees, therefore no mashing and I avoid standing as well.
> 
> ...


I have done montebello on three diff bikes. I weigh 195lbs
1. 17lb road bike with 39/27 - not that bad but my knees hurt and I absolutely had to stand
2. 24lb touring bike with XT drivetrain. 22/28 low gear. made it up quicker and with less pain than on the road bike. 
3. 28lb mountain bike with lockouts f&r. only a minute or two slower than the road bike

hope this helps.


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## glenk (May 26, 2005)

*I do*

Well, I tried. Started at the bottom in 36/24, which is close to ratio of a double crankset with 39/25. I made it exactly a mile up and was tanked. My knees didn't give out though. Finished using another 2-3 lower gears down and sitting.

Actually it seems if you can make it to the school house (2 miles in) with the 39/25, the rest of the way up would be do able.

My hat's off to those that can do it with a double and geez, in 35 minute time frame? That's some great crankin'.

glen


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## Francis Cebedo (Aug 1, 2001)

glenk said:


> Well, I tried. Started at the bottom in 36/24, which is close to ratio of a double crankset with 39/25. I made it exactly a mile up and was tanked. My knees didn't give out though. Finished using another 2-3 lower gears down and sitting.
> 
> Actually it seems if you can make it to the school house (2 miles in) with the 39/25, the rest of the way up would be do able.
> 
> ...


Yes, the school is really the end of the torture. It flattens out then the climb after that is never as steep. To the scholhouse, it climbs 900 feet in less than 2 miles. 13% at the steepest.

The key to Montebello is a long warm-up. Also, doing that climb often and building strength is good.

A couple of weeks ago, I climbed to the school 5 times and actually liked it. Now I have visions of doing it more. Now here's a strange story for you... as I was climbing reps, I kept seeing groups of people by the cliff befor Pichetti Winery. It turns out a car with 4 people missed the left turn on the climb, missed the guardrail and used the dirt embankment as a jump. I plunged down 300 feet. 2 dead instantly and 1 in critical condition. Sad.

http://www.mercurynews.com/mld/mercurynews/news/local/12444204.htm

francois


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## ToneB (Sep 6, 2005)

francois said:


> Yes, the school is really the end of the torture. It flattens out then the climb after that is never as steep. To the scholhouse, it climbs 900 feet in less than 2 miles. 13% at the steepest.
> 
> The key to Montebello is a long warm-up. Also, doing that climb often and building strength is good.
> 
> ...


Hello Francois and glenk,

This is my first post here, a friend at work told me about this forum b/c he knew my bent on my stupid goal this year... Climbing MB 50 times in one year. Just completed that this Saturday 9/3. Would I do it again-- not. I'm 43, 175lbs, and not a climber (sprinter all the way). I left little for recovery to get the climbs done. My goal was set last Dec, b4 I knew all this rain would hit. April came and I found less than 10 climbs. So I cranked it out sometimes 3 times a week. I built the legs in the gym with 300+lb squats/600lb leg presses and 250lb dead lifts. My times in Apr/May were better than now. Only on the last climb did I match my seasons best climb--37:15.
What gears and times? early season low 37s, the school in 16min, Ridge at 30 using a triple and mainly a 30/21. Mid season low 41s and 30/25. In July I got really sick and lost some conditioning so I had to get some back plus the heat in late June/July wiped me out.
What have I learned? In the first 3 min I know if the legs are there. Don't blow up in the climb to the school, try getting time back on the flat and the later section (suits a non-climber like me). Mainly the climb is mental. Don't space out and hammer the flat fm the school to Swiss Creek to make a decent time. 
My best times when racing and riding 250m/wk were in the hi 31/low 32 with a 39/19 or 17!!! at 50rpm. How is that for busting a knee? I know climb a higher 75/80 rpm and love it.

I went by the accident less than a 1/2 day after it happened and also talked to some locals who concur with my theory. The car did not go up the dirt ramp (there were no marks indicating it either). It went off at the guard rail almost on the straight part of the road. It really baffled me b/c I saw the paint marks by the police that indicated where the car went off. The guard rail is dented there. What we think happened and it looks like this is the case. The car was coming downhill bounced off the right side cliff and started rolling/flipping. It went off the road sideways flipping. The only other way it could have started this flipping was hitting the left (going uphill) turn too sharp and flipping the car but the angle just does not workout. Rumor has it the car is still down there, I don't believe they would leave a car full of oil and gas to pollute the creek and Stevens Creek Res. 
The Mercury News article is incorrect. There is no 300ft to the creek bed there. Maybe 30 feet. 50 feet max I would guess. 

I would like to know if the car was described correctly as a 2000 Audi. I would also like to know if the car was tan/light gray. 3 weeks prior I was coming down MB (in the evening) made the corner above Pichetti winery, when I heard this car screaming around the turn (right hand turn going up above the impact point) sliding all 4 wheels and the engine about 7K plus rpm. My estimate is about 60+mph. I barely avoided it by moving into the Pichetti driveway-- no driveway I would not be writing this as it had the entire roadway. The car appeared to be a small roundish sports car with what I thought were Audi insignia on the grill, but the most identifying feature was a rear spoiler on the car. The driver was in his early 20's just like the Merc said the driver of this car was. MB is just not the road for this kind of driving it is not forgiving and there are too many cyclists. That evening I passed 5 cyclists who were going to have to deal with this car about 2 minutes after I passed it. My handling skills (15yrs riding) and knowledge of the road helped me survive this idiot but newbies on this road would panic and cliff it.
Tony


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## glenk (May 26, 2005)

ToneB and Francois,

Thanks for the tips on improving my trips up Montebello. Since my home is 3 miles from the junction with Stevens Canyon, I should really try to climb it more often and I will.

I had read about the crash and the injured sheriff. I also passed by the informal memorial where the car left the road.

But you know what ToneB? On my way down around 7pm, I believe the same Audi you spoke of passed me going up. I heard the engine revving so I was also prepared. Maybe the driver has a residence up there? I also was passed on the way up by a big rig going down on the single lane portion. That was fun! I think you're also being a little modest about your climbing skills. I'd love to be at your level.

Well, let me close this thread and think of another climb that I can get tips on.

regards,
glen


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## ToneB (Sep 6, 2005)

glenk said:


> ToneB and Francois,
> 
> Thanks for the tips on improving my trips up Montebello. Since my home is 3 miles from the junction with Stevens Canyon, I should really try to climb it more often and I will.
> 
> ...



A few more quick survival tips on MB, weekends around 11 are the events at Ridge. Not every weekend but quite a bit. Watch it going down between 11 and 3 weekends. Had a near head on at the steepest pitch 1.0 to 1.1 marker (I call it red white and blue for the mail box). A macho driver decided 5 cars in front were going too slow for him, went over the yellow and proceeded in passing with his Range Rover. His wife saw me first grabbed his arm and swung his arm so he would swerve. I was going 40+ there. I did not panic as this would have caused an off road incident (it is also where I got stung inside the mouth by a bee at the same location and that taught me to not panic just stay in control until it is safe). The descent in the middle shaded area is treacherous with the road conditions and high sun. So in the middle of the day keep a hand on the brakes keep seeing "far distance" 
I talked to a local who has lived there a long time. There are no locals that drive that type of car. The car that I had seen probably on second thought was a Toyota Supra (the rear spoiler-- got a real good look at it from a side view). But this resident said alot of people drive crazy and too fast. MB is in need of serious maintenance but possibly it is good it is not paved like it was in the early 90's when I could make 9 min descents down it. Sept thru Oct is grape harvest season so you will see more heavy equip on the road both up and down so keep that in mind.

Keep cadence high, pace yourself on the lower steeper hotter section, then see what is left at the school and hammer your brains out. Winter climbing is very cold up the hill so if you are going to hit it then it takes some strategy to keep your clothes free of sweat for the descent. Even in 28 deg weather you will sweat on that hill.

If you want to hit it this Sat morn let me know. Send an email, we can meet at the bottom or the parking lot at the Res. I usually hit it around 8:45 to 9:15 when the weather is cooler like this. My strategy has now chg'd. I will be climbing for time now but am 15lbs heavier than when I hit my best non-racing days time of 36 in Sept 2k3. So my 37:15 is actually better than the 36. 10lbs carried over 2K ft for me is 5 minutes. The brutal weekly assaults up MB and avg'g 10K/wk left me drained and eating food for energy during the day too much. I did too much damage, but I learned alot. This was the first year I kept a riding log. I have been able to see where I over-trained and the times hurt. When I rested I flew up the hill with the ability to hit 185+. Other times I could pound "an easy climb" of 41 without getting above 172. When I hit my 36 almost 2 yrs to the day I held a hr of 195 fm Ridge to the end, then stumbled past the gate and puked my guts out. Dangerous, so I know now that weight lifting helps as I can reach down for leg strength w/o pushing the aerobic system that high and as I age I can not get those high HRs anymore, so you need something else.

But my main reason for MB climbing is it is a classic climb, great sceanary and no 1000+ CC motorcycles coming at you head on-- ala hwy 9. Hwy 9 is crazy on weekends so I have stayed off it-- the few times up it this year some rookie on an underpowered bike swiped into my shoulder while we were both going uphill. OLH is a fav. KM is too many miles fm my house and Bolhman-- the closest to my house but I need my head examined to climb it.
Stay safe, ride safe. Tony


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