# Real World 7900 Reports



## saab2000

So, who's got some miles on it? Let's hear about it? For the first time in many, many moons I am thinking about getting a D/A groupset.


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## bdaghisallo1

http://www.velocipedesalon.com/forum/showthread.php?t=3670&highlight=7900

http://fairwheelbikes.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=5757

Saab,

check out these threads. I posted a good bit in the FWB thread and started the VSalon thread. 7900 is good stuff. The front shifting is incredibly good. The shifter ergonomics are great and the stuff just plain works... well. Try and get a test ride on some, and if you plump for it, get it from Europe. You'll save yourself an easy $1K over US prices.

Geoff


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## saab2000

Geoff,

I know your reports!! But thanks for the opinion again! BTW, I have found some good prices at some of the Euro import places.

I am wondering if others have been lucky enough to try the new stuff.


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## mark381

I'm in the UK and have been waiting for the 7900 to become available, the sites here I have checked seem to indicate that there is still no stock, is this the case, also prices seem to have risen quite significantly since it was originally announced, I am assuming this is to do with th weak £. Where is the best place to buy and is it freely available yet?


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## cww180

I was wondering the same thing or the cheapest place to get SRAM Red for that matter.


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## bdaghisallo1

Check out sigmasport.co.uk. I picked up a few 7900 pieces from them a few weeks back, and they had quite a bit in stock at that point.


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## ultimobici

bdaghisallo1 said:


> http://www.velocipedesalon.com/forum/showthread.php?t=3670&highlight=7900
> 
> http://fairwheelbikes.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=5757
> 
> Saab,
> 
> check out these threads. I posted a good bit in the FWB thread and started the VSalon thread. 7900 is good stuff. The front shifting is incredibly good. The shifter ergonomics are great and the stuff just plain works... well. Try and get a test ride on some, and if you plump for it, get it from Europe. You'll save yourself an easy $1K over US prices.
> 
> Geoff


Nice - test ride it at an LBS then buy it from somewhere else. Did you even give them a chance to compete?


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## bdaghisallo1

Where exactly did I say to test ride it "at your LBS", huh? Saab's got a lot of mates who ride bikes. He could very easily "test ride" one of his mates' bikes!

Keep your prejudices and biases to yourself and if you don't have anything to contribute that answers the OP's question, buzz off!

Geoff


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## ultimobici

bdaghisallo1 said:


> Where exactly did I say to test ride it "at your LBS", huh? Saab's got a lot of mates who ride bikes. He could very easily "test ride" one of his mates' bikes!
> 
> Keep your prejudices and biases to yourself and if you don't have anything to contribute that answers the OP's question, buzz off!
> 
> Geoff


Most times a test ride is referred to it is taken to be at a shop. If the OP had a friend who had a 7900 equipped bike, he probably would not be asking for reviews on a forum, would he? 

My "prejudices & bias" are from years in various LBS where a steady stream of enquiries and "test-rides" resulted in shiny new parts/bikes with nary a single attempt to offer the business to the local shop. But when they had problems we were their first port of call.

It is disheartening to do all the leg work & invest in the new latest stock etc, to be used as internet shoppers' test centres. By all means try stuff out, but at least give us the chance to compete. Sometimes we're cheaper in the long run.

So, mr OP, if you have any friends using 7900 see if they'll give you a test of it and their opinions. Then see if your LBS can sort you out a better price, BEFORE you click online.


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## ultimobici

BTW 7900 prices in UK have gone up by approx 20% since mid November due to currency fluctuations. :cryin:


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## Rubber Lizard

cww180 said:


> I was wondering the same thing or the cheapest place to get SRAM Red for that matter.


Most local bike shops will give you really good pricing on most components, especially gruppos. And many will install it for free if you purchase it from them as well as deal with any warranty issues that may arise. 
It might not be as cheap as mega-online retailers but many times the extra service that small shops offer is worth the small increase in price.


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## saab2000

I know nobody in my inner circle who has it yet. But I do have friend who just got a job at Shimano and he'll give me the scoop.

Anyway, I probably won't get anything for the moment. My new Zanconato will be outfitted with stuff I already have.

I'd like to do D/A, but I am a bit tight on budget at the moment.


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## kreger

saab 

ive had it since august, i have ~1600 miles on it and i love it. the cranks of 7800 were already stiff enough so i cant tell if it is any stiffer. i like the brakes alot compared to zero g's, the 7900s have a really solid feel. the front shifting and the ergonomics are where i notice it the most, i needed 1 click of trimming on one of the front rings. the flat feel of the shifters is (for me) better than campy, my other bike is campy equipped. 

-the shifting throw is shorter and there is some lateral float in the shifters before you start to pull cable, the levers have a small but nice sweep out. 

-the 11-28 and 39x53 gearing i got is great for long day rides with lots of climbing. but it the spacing is big for group rides. 

-it is pretty and gets noticed 

some shameless stuff i wrote about the bike on my site 
http://angrybeesound.wordpress.com/2008/08/18/ibis/


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## mds

I've only about 250 miles on the DA-7900. I like the brakes and how well the shifters feel mounted on the bar I'm using. One issue I have is with shifting on the cassette. On my 11-27T, shifting up two gears is possible with a single push of the lever, but only if the final gear is not the largest 27T. I'm not sure whether this is normal or whether the adjustment on my bike needs tweaking. Any ideas?

Regarding the 11-27T, the 11T is nice, but I don't use it much. I think a 16T would be more useful, so I'm probably going to buy a 12-27T.


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## saab2000

mds said:


> Regarding the 11-27T, the 11T is nice, but I don't use it much. I think a 16T would be more useful, so I'm probably going to buy a 12-27T.



11s are lame for most people, most of the time. I use a Veloce 12-23 on most of my bikes and it works great. I'd much rather have the 18 that I get in exchange for giving up the 11-tooth cog, which I _never_ miss now that I no longer live in the mountains.

Thanks for the reports! Keep 'em coming! I am interested in D/A for pretty much the first time ever. That 7900 group really looks nice!


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## bdaghisallo1

> On my 11-27T, shifting up two gears is possible with a single push of the lever, but only if the final gear is not the largest 27T. I'm not sure whether this is normal or whether the adjustment on my bike needs tweaking. Any ideas?


Mine is the same. If I am on the third largest cog, downshifting to the largest cog takes two single shifts and cannot be accomplished with a single double shift. If I try it that way, the chain gets up onto the final cog and immediately moves down one cog. I have played around with the Lo limit screw and nothing counters it. Must be a "feature" that Shimano didn't advertise.

I am going to call Shimano and ask about it. I'll post any info I get here.


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## Corndog

FYI: I played with 7900 setups on two different bikes at the LBS today. Neither of them showed the behavior you were mentioning. I could easily do a two cog shift to the largest cassette sprocket.


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## mds

Thanks for the info Corndog. I'll play around with my bike and see if I can get it to work properly. Maybe the problem is due to the large 27T I'm using.


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## mds

I agree with bdaghisallo1 - limit screw and cable tension adjustments do not solve the problem. Nor does not appear to be a large 27T problem. The shift lever seems to reach an internal stop within the shifter body itself without the proper second indexing click when double shifting onto the largest cog. My LBS has other bikes that work properly, just like Corndog found. They say they will do what it takes to fix the problem and will install a new shifter if necessary.


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## mds

An update on my bike's two largest cog shift problem: My LBS replaced the right shifter under warrantee. The new shifter works properly. The old shifter appears to have a bit of play in its ratcheting gear mechanism which prevented proper indexing onto the largest cog.


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## jsellers

Managers bike came with 7900 after 2 months riding changed the shifters and rd to SRAM Red. The shifting quality was horrible. It might have been do to cable routing on this bike but it would not pull to up shift. If you could get it to up shift it would not down shift right and was noisy as coffee can half full of rocks.


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## -dustin

pulled my 7900 and went back to SRAM.

have had to warranty a rear 7900 STI for a customer.


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## jsellers

I think they pushed them out to quickly. A few of the pro teams switched to SRAM or stayed with the 7800. I don't believe that it was availability think it just did not work right for them either.


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## shortpull

two weeks on 7900 for me. kind of mixed bag. the biggest downer is the extra noise. i might try a different chain after i wear the shimano one out. front shifting is an improvement over 7800. probably because of the new chainring design. the crankset would be the one item i definitely recommend. shifter cables under the bar tape is nice, but i can feel the extra drag because of it. shifting front and rear is still solid though. i like the ergonomics of 7800 shifters better... but i'll probably get used to the new ones before long.


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## Jbartmc

I have a 6.9 Trek Madone Pro with DA 7900. I appreciate the shifting, but 7800 worked great. I am going to sell my group because the shifters pinch my hands and thumbs while braking because of a change in how the levers are hinged to the hoods. This only occurs while releasing the brakes with my hands on the hoods. This is a big issue for me. I got my bike in winter, so I was not aware of the issue while wearing gloves for riding in 30-40 degree weather. But once the weather warmed up, I was surprised by the design that can pinch the rider's hand/thumb when releasing the brakes while one's hands are on the hoods. I prefer 7800 or Record to the new 7900, but I cannot say anything about SRAM because I have never tried it.

For the money, I am disappointed.


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## zac

I have some pretty significant miles on 7900 except for the crank. That being said, I have put my 7800 RD back on as it just shifts better. 

The 7900 RD doesn't upshift very well and coming from 7800, it is slower to hit that smaller cog. Just not as crisp as 7800 is. I attribute it to the increased lateral play in the upper jockey pulley. I think this was designed to reduce chatter with the chain and cassette even when things are out of line. And it is quite effective at it. I suppose this is good in situations where you are changing wheels a lot and with different cassettes. There are always slight differences. While a turn or two of the barrel adjuster will handle it, with the 7900 it was pretty forgiving, whereas 7800 was a bit more finicky. But it seems to me that the increased lateral play causes a lag and especially when chain tension is decreasing on the upshift. Maybe I needed to play with my B setting more, but I think I had it dialed in and it just was not the same good crisp gear changer as 7800 is.

Except for the RD, the rest of it is pretty good. I like the brakes. A lot. They are indeed better than 7800, and that is pretty good accomplishment.

I like the feel of the hoods, some don't, but I do. Just note, if coming off 7800 you may need to make some adjustments as their reach is about 10mm more than 7800. I like the loss of the antenna. 

The shifters themselves seem a bit looser than the 7800s did, but they are lighter too. The throw is tighter which to me leads to less missed shifts. However you can only do two cogs down at a time and with 7800 you could throw 3. Not a big deal, as you get used to it pretty quickly.

You loose trimming on the big ring but you don't need it as the 7900 FD is redesigned.

HTH
zac


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## cpark

shortpull said:


> two weeks on 7900 for me. kind of mixed bag. the biggest downer is the extra noise. i might try a different chain after i wear the shimano one out. front shifting is an improvement over 7800. probably because of the new chainring design. the crankset would be the one item i definitely recommend. shifter cables under the bar tape is nice, but i can feel the extra drag because of it. shifting front and rear is still solid though. i like the ergonomics of 7800 shifters better... but i'll probably get used to the new ones before long.


Mixed bag here as well.

The good - Shifter feels more comfortable than 7800. The brake feels more powerful. Shifts well but had no issue with 7800. Lighter weight. Internal grooving. There is no drag since I'm using ITM K-Sword bar so both brake/shifter cable and housing run inside of handlebar. Good looks (subjective)

The bad - pricey (?), gun metal finish.

The ugly - I'm running 53/39 and 12/25 gearing. It runs louder than 7800. 39/25 is extremely loud. That's good thing I don't use 39/25 too much at all except on steep hills. The gun metal finish gets scratch easily. I dropped an allen wrench on the brake caliper and it now has a little scratch on it....


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## pgk

I just picked up a 7900 group, haven't installed yet, but have a question for you guys that have this group. I have always used a quick link "Wipperman" with my Ultegra group to make cleaning the chain and drive train easier. It appears that Shimano as discontinued their quick link for the 7900 chain due to shifting and noise issues. Does anyone make a quick link that works with the 7900 chain? Thanks in adavnce..

Pete


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## voodooguy

Well, I'm thinking 7900 when I buy a new bike. There are huge positives with the group (stiff crank, fr der, short throw...). However, there really seem to be some huge drawbacks that cause me to think Campy or, heck, even Ultegra SL. From what I'm reading:
1) 2 cog shift, no 3 cog ( I like the 3 cog to be there when I need it)
2) sounds noisy
3) shifters may pinch (I've read of this w and w/o gloves
4) the biggie, for me, a temperamental rear der, which sounds like it requires constant attention and tweaking to keep it right. This is noted in these forums as well as professional reviews. 

I mean, is it really worth the money then? These forums do have their share of riders that say they go back to their 7800 or go to Sram or whatever.... I certainly don't have the money to be Shimano R&D and toss the group if I don't like it... Shimano has a solid reputation and is synonymous with reliability and durability. Although heavier, the SL seems to be a more reliable option. As someone noted above, maybe they released it to soon. Doesn't Microsoft do that a lot?


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## cpark

Voodooguy,

Here is my additional feedback after putting some more miles on my 7900.

1) 2 cog shift, no 3 cog ( I like the 3 cog to be there when I need it) - *Haven't experience such issues. Mine shifts fine. In fact, going from a small ring big ring is impressively smooth and quick.*
2) sounds noisy - This is true. *It's definately noisier than 7800 especially when I'm on 39/23 or 39/12. 39/12 is not a valid complain since I should be on the big ring before I get to 39/12. After about 300 miles, the noise has gone down significantly but still slightly noisier than 7800.*
3) shifters may pinch (I've read of this w and w/o gloves - *No such issue yet and I ride with no gloves*
4) the biggie, for me, a temperamental rear der, which sounds like it requires constant attention and tweaking to keep it right. This is noted in these forums as well as professional reviews. - *No such issue for me.*

IMO, not a huge improvement from 7800 in performance other than 1) Slightly better shifting in FD, 2) more comfortable hood (subjective), 3) Cable Housing under the tape (subjective), 4) Definately more powerful brakes.


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## voodooguy

cpark said:


> Voodooguy,
> 
> Here is my additional feedback after putting some more miles on my 7900.
> 
> 1) 2 cog shift, no 3 cog ( I like the 3 cog to be there when I need it) - *Haven't experience such issues. Mine shifts fine. In fact, going from a small ring big ring is impressively smooth and quick.*
> - *No such issue for me.*
> 
> IMO, not a huge improvement from 7800 in performance other than 1) Slightly better shifting in FD, 2) more comfortable hood (subjective), 3) Cable Housing under the tape (subjective), 4) Definately more powerful brakes.


Thanks for your feedback! The 2/3 cog thing, I'm referring to the rear cassette where on 7900 you can shift 2 cogs at a time rather than the 3 on 7800 or Ultegra. Everything I read, and you confirm, is the FD is much better. Overall, however, I have to question if it's really worth the investment. For me, any change on up will be dramatic from my current ultegra + stuff mix.


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## JulesYK

*7800 v. 7900 Lever Throw*

I've read various things about the length of lever throw in the 7900 shifters. Can anyone say whether it is the same or longer than the throw on the 7800 shifters? I realize that 7900 can downshift only 2 cogs (v. 3 on 7800). Many thanks.


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## cpark

JulesYK said:


> I've read various things about the length of lever throw in the 7900 shifters. Can anyone say whether it is the same or longer than the throw on the 7800 shifters? I realize that 7900 can downshift only 2 cogs (v. 3 on 7800). Many thanks.


It feels like about same length to me.
However, it feels like it takes tad little more force to shift but that could be because my 7900 shifters are new and 7800 is well broken in.


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## JulesYK

*Thanks!*



cpark said:


> It feels like about same length to me.
> However, it feels like it takes tad little more force to shift but that could be because my 7900 shifters are new and 7800 is well broken in.


Thanks for the feedback. I love my 7800 groups and have been slowing buying up spare parts so I can use them as long as possible. The only think I really do not like is that the hoods are not that comfortable to me, and I'm usually thinking once per ride that it would be great if the hoods were just shaped better for my hands. The 7900 hoods feel great to me, although I haven't had a chance to ride them. I just wish that the entire system were backwards compatible.


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## brewster

I like the new 7900 group, but just from playing with both set up on different bikes at a demo booth, I would prefer the cable version over the Di2. I thought the cabled 7900 was strikingly fast and smooth to shift. I went up and down the cogs quickly, and jammed the front derailluer hard on purpose, and it was silk. Then, I road the Di2 on a stationary trainer at the same booth and was surprised that it was hesitant and clunky in comparison. Hopefully, on the road it would be different, but considering the point of the demo was to leave a positive impression, it didn't do that initially for me. Especially considering the price different, the choice would be easy for me.

Trouble is I can't really justify a new grouppo purchase seeing that my 18 year old DA 7402 is still in use and is rock solid. It won't die. It's built like a tank.

brewster


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## -dustin

that Di2 wasn't set up correctly. Di2 is ridiculously smooth. FD is unbelievably quick and spot on.


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## fast ferd

I ride both 7800 and 7900 equally these days. Put about 1,000 miles on my 7900. To me, 7900 shifting is quieter, smoother, and quicker. Not sure what to make of all this talk about it being noisier. Brakes stop a tiny bit better. Love the ergo feel and shift action of the levers. Very comfy hoods and like the hidden cables. Cool chain. The cost is still a little ridiculous when compared to 7800. I had some bucks at the time so just said what the heck.

Dislikes about 7900: the right lever vibrates/buzzes over rough roads. I miss the trim feature of the front derailleur, as I think it compromises up-shifts. Adjusting that sucker tests one's patience. Miss the shift indicator from the 7700/7800 setup. I think 7800 looks more stylish and sophisticated. That $600 price differential is huge, so make the leap only if you can afford it.


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## Wheelman55

fast ferd said:


> Dislikes about 7900: the right lever vibrates/buzzes over rough roads.


Talk to your LBS about the vibration...I am going to move to 7900 myself and I heard from my LBS that their Shimano rep told them that they have a fix/relacement coming for the noisy lever.


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## livestrong7

I have ridden about 250 miles on my new Specialized S-works Roubaix equipped with the complete Dura-ace 7900 group and unfortunately have to conclude that this group just plain sucks in terms of poor shifting in both the front and rear.

My previous bike that I have ridden for 5 years has the Dura-ace 7800 group and about 7,000 miles on it. I am extremely happy about its flawless shifting quality and durability. I even have the original chain. When cleaned, the group still looks almost new!

I was hoping that Shimano would improve on the 7800, but that was not the case in my experience. The front takes forever to shift up and the rear constantly mis-shifts with partial shifts. Instead of enjoying the actual ride, I am constantly focusing on how the bike will mis-shift next. This was not the case with the 7800. It just did what you told it and I never gave it a thought.

I have had the bike tuned up at two separate bike shops by three separate mechanics and the 7900 still mis-shifts right after the tune-ups. The only positives I can say about the 7900 are the slightly better braking and the lighter weight. Of course, the poor shifting and high price far outweigh these positives.

If I knew about the issues with the 7900, I would have bought a SRAM Red equipped bike instead. Oh well, I am going the try replacing all the cables with Yokozuna Reaction Cables to see if that helps.

If it doesn't, does anyone know if I can replace the front and rear deraillers with something that actually shifts properly?


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## Wheelman55

livestrong7 said:


> I have ridden about 250 miles on my new Specialized S-works Roubaix equipped with the complete Dura-ace 7900 group and unfortunately have to conclude that this group just plain sucks in terms of poor shifting in both the front and rear.
> 
> 7900 shifts great when properly set up. A friend has a SZ w/7900 and had similar issues. He discovered that the bike was not set up properly from the factory. Check on these three things: Crank - For the front - are you using the 7900 Crank? Anything else is likely to not be stiff enough. Chain - For the rear - is your DA chain put on correctly with the "Shimano" side facing out? If you are using the quick connect is it oriented in the proper direction? Consider using a pin instead of the quick link. Cables - For both...make sure that the metal ferule is used at the top of the shift lever. Some Specialized bikes were put together using a plastic ferule. Also switching to Shimano cables (using their metal ferule) will help your shifting.
> 
> QUOTE]


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## fast ferd

My 7900 shifts perfectly, although in all fairness is difficult to dial it in, especially that front derailleur. Another possibility for poor shifting includes rear dropout hangar alignment. Or a backwards cassette cog! All in all, Shimano STI has always been sensitive.


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## livestrong7

7900 shifts great when properly set up. A friend has a SZ w/7900 and had similar issues. He discovered that the bike was not set up properly from the factory. Check on these three things: Crank - For the front - are you using the 7900 Crank? Anything else is likely to not be stiff enough. Chain - For the rear - is your DA chain put on correctly with the "Shimano" side facing out? If you are using the quick connect is it oriented in the proper direction? Consider using a pin instead of the quick link. Cables - For both...make sure that the metal ferule is used at the top of the shift lever. Some Specialized bikes were put together using a plastic ferule. Also switching to Shimano cables (using their metal ferule) will help your shifting. 

QUOTE][/QUOTE]

Hi Wheelman55 and fast ferd,

Regarding your tips,
1. As you can see in the photos, I am using the Dura-ace 7900 crankset.
2. I checked the DA chain and the lettering on the chain is facing on the outside.
3. The DA chain is using a quick link. How do I use a pin connection?
4. I'm not sure what is the metal (or plastic) ferule on top of the shift levers you are referring to?
5. I did not know it is possible to put the casette cog on backwards. How can you tell it is on correctly?

It will cost me about $150 to have my bike shop install the Yokozuna Reaction Cables which will replace all the shifting and brake cables and the handlebar tape. I read a review of these cables that it helps with the shifting issues with the DA 7900. I will let you know if they are right.


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## Wheelman55

Livestrong...your Roubaix looks great and it should shift perfectly with 7900. This is a really great group. Once again...my buddies bike had the quicklink put on upside down plus he had plastic ferules on the end of the shift cable housing which added to the miss shifts.

Here are some things that might help:

1) The cassette can only be put on one way. You might have the wrong size spacer...though that would only give you poor shifting on the RD.

2) The metal ferule is under the brake hood. It's the aluminum cap at the end of the brake housing...not the metal piece on the end of the cable. Lesser cables use plastic caps which don't work with 7900. Go to shimano.com under tech support for the document...it's # SI-6RT0A.

3) The writing on the quick link should look upside down when it's on the bottom part of the chain (between crank and RD) like in your picture. Make sure that you are viewing the bike with your head right side up  I attached a pic.

View attachment 176494



4) The quick link should look like this if viewed on the top part of your chain (between cassette and crank)

View attachment 176495


5) Shimano is now recommending that the quick link be replaced with a normal DA 7900 link with a DA 7900 pin. Your LBS will know what this means. Apparently the quick link stretches faster than the rest of the chain and over time will lead to poor shifting.


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## fast ferd

Good info, wheelman. I was joking about the backwards cog.

$150 cables. Ouch. Shimano's cable set is top notch. Hard to believe that a better one - if there's such a thing - would solve your problem.

Good luck with your repair and hope it works out for you!


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## LGD

Livestrong-

Looking at your 5th picture, it seems that the shift housing is cut a bit too short. It should make nice rounded curves instead of sharp turns as it comes off of the handlebar. I'm betting they bind even more when turning. Was your bar/stem raised after the cables were installed? I would think another 3-5cm of housing would dramatically improve shifting. Shimano SP41 housing with their coated cables does a great job, but I can't knock someone for an upgrade above those- I've got a set of Gore cables sitting here for my assembly tomorrow. Just make sure that whoever cuts your cables gives you enough slack to allow the bike to steer fully without binding the cables...

Best wishes,
LGD


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## livestrong7

For anyone interested in the Yokozuna Reaction cables, here are two reviews with the quote below from the Bicycling review:

"Shifting is similarly significant. *I've ridden three test bikes now with Shimano's cable-activated 7900 group, and all suffered from finicky shifting (even when properly set up) and required constant re-adjustment. The Yokozuna kit cleared that up immediately. *But what was really revelatory was how the Yokozuna system worked on the Force-equipped 'cross bike."

*Bicycling.com Review:*
http://www.bicycling.com/gear/detail/0,7989,s1-17-163-2556-0,00.html

*Velonews.com Review:*
http://www.velonews.com/article/96561/

Thanks guys (and/or gals) for all the helpful tips on trying to find what is wrong with my DA 7900 group.


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## -dustin

been having persistent issues with 7900 and 09/ 08 Super and System Six frames. Getting quite frustrating.


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## JacksonDodge

Mine is flawless. 2000 miles and counting. Shifting is crisp and clean....and I'm not even using a Shimano crank. FD works just as well with a Zipp VumaQuad.

<shrug>

Not quite as sharp and smooth as the Di2 bike but that's a completely different beast.


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## Wheelman55

​OK...I might have an answer on the shifting...I ran into the area Shimano rep last night. Please note that I am not a mechanic and I'll do the best rendition that I can of what he told me regarding 7900 shifting.

He said: about a month ago one of the other tech reps in CA was doing neutral support for a local Crit and had to fix about 15 FD-7900. They all had the high limit screws too tight and the cables too tight. Setting up FD-7900 properly can change people's entire view of the group. He had multiple people come back at the race and tell him it works much better than their 7800, where as before they thought it wasn't as good. He also noted that many of the 7900 groups at this crit were not set up properly, chains on backwards etc. The writing should be on the outside, meaning away from the bike.

In defense of the LBS mechanics he said that 7900 needs to be set up properly and most/many mechanics just have not had the training/experience to do it yet.

Also for Livestrong...I had the tech rep look at your pictures on the site. He had two things to say. #1 he couldn't tell from the pics if your chain was on backwards or not...the wrting needs to be on the outside. #2 he recommended that when you put the new cables in that you route the cables to the rear of the handle bars and not the front, saying that the bends will be less tight this way and you'll get better shifts. He also said that the Yokuzuna cables are very similiar and possibly identical to the Shimano SP41 cables. They both use slippery plastic stuff on the cables - Shimano's is PTFE - and stated that you'll get much better shifts using either one...just make sure that your mechanic uses the aluminum cap/ferule. 

He also gave me a tip on lubing the chains. He said that the lube on new 7900 chains wears off in about a day and recommended using a good quality chain lube from day 1. He said that he and the other tech reps are getting 3,000 miles out of the 7900 chains this way. He said to replace the quicklink with a pin for best chain life.

Once again...my buddies 7900 bike shifts perfectly...I've got a Trek Di2 bike on order so hopefully won't have to deal with either the FD or the cable issues.


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## livestrong7

Hi Wheelman55,

Thanks for all the research. Are you a bike racer or shop owner? You seem to be very knowledgable about the technical aspects of biking...

I checked my chain, and it is installed correctly based on your photos and comments.
The next things to check will be the aluminum cap/ferules when the new cables are installed. I will have the mechanic install the cables on the backside of the handlebars. I will also ask the about the cassette and whether the spacer was properly installed.

Anyway, I wish Shimano had a program where it would train and certify LBS mechanics on proper installation and maintenance on their very finiky components. This should especially apply to groups installed at the bike factories.

Shimano should have designed their groups so that there wern't so many things that could be improperly done which would seriously degrade the operation of the bike, especially at the DA 7900 price level. Again, I have had excellent experiences with my DA 7800 group, which makes me so much more disappointed with the DA 7900 group.


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## Wheelman55

livestrong7 said:


> Hi Wheelman55,
> 
> Thanks for all the research. Are you a bike racer or shop owner? You seem to be very knowledgable about the technical aspects of biking...QUOTE]
> 
> I'm too slow to be a racer however I am a long time enthusiast who asks lots of questions of my racer friends. Best of luck sorting your shifting woes out. I am certain that once you do that you will love your 7900 group. I was able to demo both 7900 and 7970 (Di2)...they were the Shimano tech rep's demo bikes...and both ran flawlessly...crisp precise shifting and an almost magical FD on the Di2.


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## LGD

livestrong7 said:


> ...Anyway, I wish Shimano had a program where it would train and certify LBS mechanics on proper installation and maintenance on their very finiky components. This should especially apply to groups installed at the bike factories.
> 
> Shimano should have designed their groups so that there wern't so many things that could be improperly done which would seriously degrade the operation of the bike, especially at the DA 7900 price level. Again, I have had excellent experiences with my DA 7800 group, which makes me so much more disappointed with the DA 7900 group.



Livestrong-

Just so you are aware- Shimano DOES provide a lot of tech support for shops, just many, many mechanics are a bit arrogant and think they already know what's up. I've been doing this for almost 20 years and have been amazed again and again at the resistance to learn about new equipment from many of the other wrenches I know. Personally I like reading the tech notices and books that Shimano puts out- there is always a little something to be learned from them.

As far as finickyness goes- the higher the performance product, the more tweaking it tends to need to maintain peak performance. That is true in nearly every catagory of product I know of. But, proper initial set-up goes a long way to better overall performance.

Best of luck,
LGD


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## bdaghisallo1

When I first installed my 7900 back in November, I went through a lot of different cable setups to get the sweetest shifting. Shimano's sp41 housing with their cables was woeful. I found the unsealed Gore Ride On cables to be even worse! Jagwire teflon SS cables with their housing was pretty damn good. But the absolute best was the Yokozuna jet-lubed housing with their stainless cables. Huge improvement over every thing else. I ran the gear cables on the inside of the bars since it was more comfortable and I honestly couldn't tell a difference between outside and inside routing.

Yokozuna may make cables and housing for Shimano, but their product is inferior to what Yokozuna sells under its own label.

I haven't tried the Reaction brake housing from Yokozuna. On brakes I am satisfied with Shimano's standard offerings. 

And I would concur on the FD setup. It is tricky when you are new to it and the method is the complete antithesis of the setup for 7800. Carefull attention to the HI limit screw and ensuring the cable tension isn't too high are critical. If your FD cable isn't loose enough at rest to ping against your downtube on rough roads, then it's probably too tight. Shimano should correct that aspect, but for now it is what it is.


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## JulesYK

*The hoods!*

I had a chance to test ride a Parlee built with the 7900 group, with Zero Gravity brakes (which were underwhelming after years of riding 7800 brakes; perhaps they didn't have the special cam for the 7900 brifters). The front shifting was excellent, but not noticeably better than the two bikes I have set up with 7800 and FSA K-Force Light compact cranks with Shimano-specific/S-10 rings. Rear shifting was good, but actually felt a little vaguer than the 7800. I think that the downshift throw on the right shifter is a little longer and less positive than the 7800 (which already is pretty light). All that said (and assuming that the brakes are as good as advertised), I'd switch. The hoods felt fantastic. I often think that the primary purpose of the 7800 hood shape is to ensure that I change hand positions often; the 7900 hoods felt as if I could ride on them for hours. Really a revelation.


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## cyclequip

Livestrong,
You have your chain on the wrong way. This is a unidirectional chain and the slots in the big outer face plates should be on the outside. From the pics you post they are on the inside.


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## bdaghisallo1

cyclequip said:


> Livestrong,
> You have your chain on the wrong way. This is a unidirectional chain and the slots in the big outer face plates should be on the outside. From the pics you post they are on the inside.


Actually, the slots in the big outer face plates should be on the inside of the bike, facing the non-drive side.


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## Wheelman55

bdaghisallo1 said:


> Actually, the slots in the big outer face plates should be on the inside of the bike, facing the non-drive side.



Livestrong....it gets confusing doesn't it? Some of our collective advise is correct and some is not. We all mean well however most of us are not expert mechanics and do make mistakes. You should really become your own expert, plus consult with an expert mechanic who has the humility to actually learn. 

In this case bdaghisallo1 is correct. I suggest that you go to the Shimano website where you'll find a Shimano document that confirms what he said. Their tech section is quite good. Google up this tech doc on the DA chain: Technical Service Instructions SI-09G0B-002-00. The google search will guide you to the Shimano tech site.

http://bike.shimano.com/ 

You'll find a pretty good diagram of the way to orient the chain. Here's a brief cut and paste from the site:

"• In order to obtain good gear shifting performance, the CN-7900 /
CN-6700 has a forward side and a reverse side, and the sides are
marked so that the CN-7900 / CN-6700 will face the correct way
when installed."

I also found out from our local Shimano tech rep that Shimano has tech reps that cover most of the US. Your LBS can call them for advise...and they should in your case. You spent a lot of money and there is absolutely no reason why your DA should not shift perfectly.


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## livestrong7

Hi Wheelman55,

Thanks for the continued helpful advice.
I just got the cables replaced with Yokozuna Reaction cables.

I also asked the mechanic to check the following:
The ferules on top of the shift levers were plastic, which he replaced with aluminium.
The dura-ace wheels were installed without a spacer. He added the correct Shimano spacer.

I won't have a chance to ride until this weekend to fully test out the bike and will post my impressions after the ride.

Thanks again


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## livestrong7

I rode two rides this weekend to check out my 7900 group equipped bike with new Yokozuna Reaction cables installed, metal ferules on the shifters replaced and a new spacer on the Shimano wheels.

The first ride was up Mount Diablo with a vertical climb of 3,300 feet in 11 miles.
The second ride was through the Oakland / Berkeley hills with a vertical climb of 3,000 feet in 32 miles.

The Dura-Ace 7900 performed much better than it did before, with much less mis-shifting.
I feel that it's performance is now acceptable. However, I still feel that the 7800 group is a superior group in terms of better shifting performance. It provides cleaner, faster, and more precise shifting than the 7900 group and is more likely to stay tuned. The weakest part of 7900 is the rear downward shifting. I also don't like the comfort of the hoods because my thumbs grip onto the exposed metal innards of the shifters.

Anyway, thanks for all the input. I am now a happy rider.


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## Jbartmc

I ordered a new bike last year through Trek's P1 site with the new DA 7900. I was less than thrilled with the group compared to the 7800 as well. For me, the hoods were simply not as comfortable. I had no issues with performance of the group, but the way the lever opened up when braking caused pinching. Within a few months, I was no longer using the 7900 group. I have no regrets.


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## StillKeen

After my research over the past week, I am wishing I had bought 7800 when it was on close out. Now the only 7800 group I can find in the UK is 800 quid, when 7900 is 950 pounds on a Christmas special.

I think I will be moving my ultegra 6500/DA 7700 group from my winter/touring bike to my new frame until there is a clearer picture of Red vs 7900.


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## muscleendurance

7800 is DA at its best, 7900 is a step backwards.


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## livestrong7

muscleendurance said:


> 7800 is DA at its best, 7900 is a step backwards.


I fully concur. 7900 is just not cutting it for me with the poor shifting quality. My last fix is to replace the crappy 7900 chain with a CN-7801 chain. On hindsight, I wish I went with the SRAM Red group.


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## BikeFixer

Well I prefer the 7800 over 7900 also but 7900 blows away sram red IMHO


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## LGD

The longer I have 7900, the more I like it. I really don't care for the feel of my 7800 anymore, especially the hoods. I guess different strokes for different folks....


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## StillKeen

The more I look into 7900, the more I think Shimano rushed it out to keep up with the others before going to electronic dura-ace as the only dura-ace (once they get it cheaper and better ... 3 years?).

I came very close to buying it, but my secondhand DA7800 shifters arrive tomorrow, and I'll be running that for a season, maybe two, then reconsider.

I would like to demo 7900/SRAM Red (with Fulcrum cranks) and 7800 one after the other to get a real feel for the differences.


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## cpark

IMO, only thing Shimano had to do was to improve the ergonomic of the 7800 brifter and call it a day......


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## jasjas

I ve been using 7900 and have no probs with it and thats with internal cable routing as well, a no no with shimano i believe?
It seems to be a setup issue with most folk.


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## LGD

jasjas said:


> It seems to be a setup issue with most folk.



And that's a Bingo!


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## zac

cpark said:


> IMO, only thing Shimano had to do was to improve the ergonomic of the 7800 brifter and call it a day......


+10. That and get the shifter cables under the tape.



That being said, I am running a mix of 7800 and 7900 and it is working well, but the biggest disappointment to 7900 is the rear derailleur and its shifting. That was a big step back from 7800.

Currently I am running in 7900: STI, FD, and brake calipers; all the rest is 7800: Crank/rings, RD, cassettes (also 5600 and 6600) and chain. Hell I just picked up yet another whole 7800 crankset, it was almost cheaper than just getting new rings.

zac


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## jksu

with all the gripe about 7900, i hope i made the right decision with ordering 6700 shifters for my 7800 bike.

definitely i'll gain 40 or so grams over 7800, but i test rode 6700, sram, and campy 11 a few weekends ago at my lbs....all are superior, at least for me, to 7800's levers. 

i have big hands and love the 6700/7900's girth and the flat top reminds me of campy (i have campy chorus 10 on another bike). easy braking from hoods. and although the big dumps of gearing with a thumb push with campy, i like the ease of upshifting from the drops with shimano. sram was ok - the doubletap is very intuitive and definitely solid shifts.

hate to say it, but imho, 6700 looks good...not too pointy like campy 11 (all the campy 11 levers ergonomically felt amazing) and i like the clean look of hidden cables.

the upgrade was also economical compared to doing a full campy 11 or sram since i can keep all the 7800 stuff and it still matches fairly well.... i appreciate shimano keeping things backward compatible.

folks should check out ribble in the uk. i looked there for campy 11 initially -- great prices! i'll use them again when/if i go campy 11. i ordered the 6700 levers from them for $255, close to 1/2 of what it costs stateside. a compact crankset for $100 off ebay and i'll be ready for some big climbing rides this summer!

jksu



zac said:


> +10. That and get the shifter cables under the tape.
> 
> 
> 
> That being said, I am running a mix of 7800 and 7900 and it is working well, but the biggest disappointment to 7900 is the rear derailleur and its shifting. That was a big step back from 7800.
> 
> Currently I am running in 7900: STI, FD, and brake calipers; all the rest is 7800: Crank/rings, RD, cassettes (also 5600 and 6600) and chain. Hell I just picked up yet another whole 7800 crankset, it was almost cheaper than just getting new rings.
> 
> zac


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## joetoeman

For 7900 users what has been your experience with the exposed gears on the shifters. Are they getting a lot of road grim and dirt that's causing shift problems?


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## jasjas

joetoeman said:


> For 7900 users what has been your experience with the exposed gears on the shifters. Are they getting a lot of road grim and dirt that's causing shift problems?



Well no, because A: i ve never had any probs shifting and B: both RD and FD and cable runs under BB get covered in crap all the time and it does nt seem to effect anything too much, does it?


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## joetoeman

The RD and FD is different. Looking at the right-hand shifter there is the big open space that exposes all the internal gears. The gears are far more complex than what's on the RD and FD. It looks like it could easily get grim and muck instead and screw up the gears. It also doesn't look like it could be easily cleaned.


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## fast ferd

*Wonder about this myself - except ten years from now*



joetoeman said:


> For 7900 users what has been your experience with the exposed gears on the shifters. Are they getting a lot of road grim and dirt that's causing shift problems?


My 7900 will not see inclement weather for many years. That duty falls to either my 7700 or 7800 equipped bikes. Compared to those levers, however, the 7900 does look a little cavernous. Not sure how much road grime could travel up there, unless one does a lot of wet group rides or cyclocross. Water easily penetrates any lever out there.

I still find all this "talk" about poor shifting ridiculous. It does take some patience to dial in 7900, but once done, it shifts perfectly. IMHO, Dura Ace at its best.


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## jasjas

Maybe your right, all i can say is that after lots of rides on wet, crappy UK winter rides, i ve never had any probs and neither does a riding buddy using 7900.
Personally, the shifters look no worse than my Ultegra ones, infact the more open design of the 7900 will allow water etc to drain much more easily, as i said previously, i believe its a set up issue and our LBS have had no problems with dozens of bikes they ve sold with 7900.


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