# First impressions: 2010 Motobecane Le Champion CF



## lukestein

My new 2010 Motobecane Le Champion CF (54cm) arrived two days ago from Bikes Direct, and I thought I'd share a few impressions with anyone interested.

First, a few thoughts. I know and understand some of the frustrations with Bikes Direct (and online bike buying more generally). My experience has been positive thus far, but I don't discount the risks, or the frustration some people have suffered (mainly shipping damage, as best I can tell from reading forums). It's nice to see how accessible BD makes themselves in this forum, but I can't help but wish a company selling expensive items had a website that inspired a bit more confidence in their longevity and legitimacy.

For the past five years, I have ridden a ~2002 Motobecane Super Mirage as a daily commuter, on short and long road rides, and on the occasional century. I purchased it used on eBay--the original rider had bought it from SprtyMama (on eBay), whose business is related to Bikes Direct. That bike served me very well, but with its heavy steel frame, el cheapo wheels, and generally low-level components, I always craved an upgrade --- especially after moving to hillier terrain in the Bay Area. When the Super Mirage was stolen last month, I pulled the trigger:

http://www.bikesdirect.com/products/motobecane/lechamp_cf_ltd_10.htm
http://www.bikesdirect.com/products/motobecane/images/ltd_red_gallery/

Shipping time was as expected, and the box was in perfect shape when dropped off by UPS. Everything was packed nicely and came out in fine shape. Assembly was straightforward, and only minimal adjustments were warranted out of the box (e.g., brake caliper clearance, stem flip). The wheels are true and der adjustment is not bad at all; I will ride some miles before perfecting the setup.


Relative to the description and photos on Bikes Direct's site, I have a few small notes:

- Front derailer: Specs and BD photos suggest a braze-on front der; in fact, the derailer is attached using a (somewhat bulky) clamp that must be adding some weight and cutting down a bit on clean lines. Slight disappointment.

- Clipless pedals: The included clipless pedals are marked Wellgo RC-713; I haven't tried them

- Chainrings: BD photos show gray rings with silver teeth; bike has uniformly black rings. Who cares?

- Tires: Continental Ultra Race; these were NOT among the listed tires in the specs (i.e., Vittoria Rubino Pro or Ritchey Race Slick). Tiny disappointment.

- Cassette: Specs stated no choice between 11-25 and 12-27; I received the 12-27. Nice --- I appreciate another 8% gearing for some climbs.


All in all, the first 36 hours and 15 miles leave me thrilled with the bike. YMMV, but my experience reccomends Bikes Direct.


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## lukestein

Here are some unboxing pics in case anyone is interested. Sorry for the limited photographic skills.

Built up as shipped (without pedals and bottle cages), the bike tips in at 18.2 lbs.


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## needforspeedsteve

*Nice bike*

Looks like a nice bike. I've got a 2007 LeMond Buenos Aires that looks a lot like it (red/white). My bike also has the clamp on front derailleur. I actually prefer it over the braze on because you can fine tune the position on the seat tube. The clamp weight is negligible. Think about how much your water bottle weights when it's full VS low or empty. That will make a much bigger difference then the clamp. Good luck and happy riding.


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## MarvinK

Finally a Motobecane that doesn't look like total crap. I wish they had other part choices, including SRAM.

It's really a turn-off for BikesDirect to advertise the 'bonus' of (old) Ultegra SL parts and (heavy) low-end Mavic wheels. Put on some lesser-name wheels that offer a better value, and a new group (SRAM Rival or Ultegra 6700) and I'd be a lot more impressed. Those are both drawbacks to this bike... not the benefit their website suggests.


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## 20sMotoSpirit

MarvinK said:


> Finally a Motobecane that doesn't look like total crap. I wish they had other part choices, including SRAM.
> 
> It's really a turn-off for BikesDirect to advertise the 'bonus' of (old) Ultegra SL parts and (heavy) low-end Mavic wheels. Put on some lesser-name wheels that offer a better value, and a new group (SRAM Rival or Ultegra 6700) and I'd be a lot more impressed. Those are both drawbacks to this bike... not the benefit their website suggests.



Just looking at how the bikes have come packaged in the last few years. I am convinced that these are 09 kits built up for the 010 model year. 

Example - DA 7900 got released this year (2009 model year), but the we are seeing it for the first time on the BD 010 bikes. There is just a lag from when it is launched to when we see it. I would bet more SRAM bikes ( maybe even a CX Rival bike!! ) and even a 6700 model bike in January or early April.


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## bikesdirect

MarvinK said:


> Finally a Motobecane that doesn't look like total crap. I wish they had other part choices, including SRAM.
> 
> It's really a turn-off for BikesDirect to advertise the 'bonus' of (old) Ultegra SL parts and (heavy) low-end Mavic wheels. Put on some lesser-name wheels that offer a better value, and a new group (SRAM Rival or Ultegra 6700) and I'd be a lot more impressed. Those are both drawbacks to this bike... not the benefit their website suggests.



We are adding choices as fast as we can

RT800 with RED is selling great

New le Champion CF RIVAL with full Rival group is on the way and will be in early October AND will without question be the best deal on a full Rival CF bike anywhere {we think we will be $1000 at least under equal bike and have more name brand parts}

New Ultegra 6700 was just released in double by Shimano; our Ti and Immortal versions are on the water and go on pre-book soon. Will be shipping to cusyomers by late August

Ti bikes in Rival and Red will be out early spring. Full AL bikes with Rival coming for spring.

We will get in triple Ultegra 6700 as soon as Shimano releases it; probably October release by Shimano

As Sram becomes more popular we will add lots of models
At Least
le Champion CF Rival
le Champion Ti Rival
le Champion Ti RED
Fantom Cross Rival
Fantom Cross Pro Force
Immortal Inferno [RED]
plus a few in Mercier and Windsor as the trend grows

I find this all real exciting


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## bicyclego

*Fantom Cross Ti*

Is the Ti cross bike going to be getting SRAM? Now that'd be something I'd be strongly temped to beg the wife to let me buy...


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## bikesdirect

bicyclego said:


> Is the Ti cross bike going to be getting SRAM? Now that'd be something I'd be strongly temped to beg the wife to let me buy...


For Next Year, I will probably get Ti CX bike in Rival and Ultegra
this bike is getting that popular

I might also bring a Force one with BB7 disc


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## Lifelover

*Moto Ti Raid!*



bikesdirect said:


> For Next Year, I will probably get Ti CX bike in Rival and Ultegra
> this bike is getting that popular
> 
> I might also bring a Force one with BB7 disc



As you know I not generally one of your biggest fans but the Ti Cross bike is pretty damn nice. Even I would be proud to sport that one. A fork with fender mounts would be nice.

Will the frame accept, cantis, disc, and standard road brakes?

Is there a frame only option?


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## mud390

Are the stickers on the Le Champion CF under the clear coat or on top of it?

Kris


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## bicyclego

bikesdirect said:


> For Next Year, I will probably get Ti CX bike in Rival and Ultegra
> this bike is getting that popular
> 
> I might also bring a Force one with BB7 disc



I don't know if the Force bike with discs is the best idea. I could be wrong, but wouldn't the folks willing to pay for Force want to race? Or are you counting on the folks spending the dough on Force to just want a nice Winter/Commuter rig and all the (wannabe) racers will do the Rival or Ultegra?

Wish you had one of the Ti cross bikes in my size, no 51's so I'm contemplating picking up a Lynskey.


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## bikesdirect

mud390 said:


> Are the stickers on the Le Champion CF under the clear coat or on top of it?
> 
> Kris



We never put decals over clear; as that makes for a 'cheap' look after a few years of use and most our customers perfer the decals stay on place

I also would not recommend this bike for someone who wants to strip decals
if a naked bike is preferred - I would go with the le Champion Ti


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## bikesdirect

bicyclego said:


> I don't know if the Force bike with discs is the best idea. I could be wrong, but wouldn't the folks willing to pay for Force want to race? Or are you counting on the folks spending the dough on Force to just want a nice Winter/Commuter rig and all the (wannabe) racers will do the Rival or Ultegra?
> 
> Wish you had one of the Ti cross bikes in my size, no 51's so I'm contemplating picking up a Lynskey.


Lynskey is a nice bike
But I think we bring 52cm and I have to say - 1cm is very small
going 49, 52, 54, 56, 58, 61 hits most people

I do not know if a Force bike with disc would be a good idea either - just thinking outloud
but most CX bikes are not sold to pro racers
many are used as commuters, winter bikes, versitily fun bikes, light touring, fitness, etc


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## MarvinK

I agree from a performance perspective, Force doesn't make sense over Rival... it certainly LOOKS much nicer... although if there was a type of Rival would look best on, it would be CX.


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## akeelor

Mike,

The 2010 Le Champion Ti looks very nice. Are the decals removable from this bike?

Thanks


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## PlatyPius

lukestein said:


> I purchased it used on eBay--the original rider had bought it from SprtyMama (on eBay), whose business is related to Bikes Direct.


"SprtyMama" is his wife.


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## akatsuki

MarvinK said:


> I agree from a performance perspective, Force doesn't make sense over Rival... it certainly LOOKS much nicer... although if there was a type of Rival would look best on, it would be CX.


I think in 2010 groups, Force makes more sense than Red, the upgrades between 2009 and 2010 definitely rendered it more useful. Sad to hear that Rival won't be on any bikes for this cross season and having to wait til spring.


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## orangeclymer

On the list for an org/wht unit from sprtymama. According to them it shall arrive late Nov which is fine as my riding season is over by then and i can tweek it over the winter months. Hopefully it comes with the michelin pro3 W/org sidewalls since it was tested and advertised with them. Having the 6700 Ult is a + vs the older version.


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## orangeclymer

lukestein any further comments after a month of ownership??


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## aaronis31337

FYI:

The Continental Ultra Race are considered some of the worst tires available. Read the reviews on this website. You should replace them asap.


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## aaronis31337

Looks like you have it all figured out Mike. Good work. SRAM bikes are in high demand and I think you'll sell a ton.


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## aaronis31337

Mike,

How do you remove the decals on the TI?

Also, any idea how to polish the frame?


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## 20sMotoSpirit

aaronis31337 said:


> FYI:
> 
> The Continental Ultra Race are considered some of the worst tires available. Read the reviews on this website. You should replace them asap.


+1 Agreed. About a 2 years ago I was decending a long road - not very steep but there was this off camber bend. 

LS-S....

my back wheel looses grip - I mange to keep my bike up - but I go face first into an embankment. Its taken me two years to get my confidence back on the decent. 

Word or all of those value minded sportsmen - If you are not spending a minimum of $30 per wheel for tires they are not worth it! MICH Pro3 are about $35 on special and have GREAT GRIP! I have also had good luck with CONTI 4000s w/ the black Chili compound.

Check this out the best of SAVE and SPLURGE 
http://ninhydrin.multiply.com/journal/item/5
except I do not agree with #4


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## aaronis31337

I can agree that both those tires rock. Go with the conti's over the pro race 3's though -- they will last a LOT longer. 

I also like my Specialized Armadillo Elite's. They last forever and have NEVER punctured.


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## the_ill_postino

Mike, I'm curious about your suggesting the ti bike for people looking to remove decals. I was told by Chris who responded to my email to bd4techhelp[at]aol[dot]com that removing the decals will void the warranty on motobecane ti cyclocross bike. Is this true?


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## bicyclego

The Le Champion CF with Rival is a nice looking bike. Quite tempting (though I don't like the fork), but what I'm hankering for is one of the Ti bikes outfitted with Rival or Force.


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## acckids

Lets see some updated photos.


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## gaucho206

*2010 Motobecane Le Champion CF Ltd*

i'm thinking about getting the 2010 Motobecane Le Champion CF Ltd.
it's at the bottom of the main page right now for bd.com

based on this thread i'm about 65% sure at this point i want to get it.

but even before discovering this thread, i noticed there is no phone number to call - not even for pre-sales support. sigh.

i am going to be kicking myself if i run into problems...

any thoughts?


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## bikesdirect

the_ill_postino said:


> Mike, I'm curious about your suggesting the ti bike for people looking to remove decals. I was told by Chris who responded to my email to bd4techhelp[at]aol[dot]com that removing the decals will void the warranty on motobecane ti cyclocross bike. Is this true?


Removing decals voids warranty on all brands I know of.
This does not mean the company [weather Trek, Motobecane, Specialized or whoever] will not back the warranty - it means they do not have to. {we tend to make all warranty calls giving the customer the benefit of the doubt -- if it is a true frame defect}

We are going to start having more Ti models with hollow decals; which many customers seem to like.

However, in the case of Ti I would not worry too much about the frame warranty - very unlikely you are going to ever need it!


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## orangeclymer

acckids said:


> Lets see some updated photos.



I posted pics of mine in another thread and although my components are a bit diff it's still a heleva deal.


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## the_ill_postino

gaucho206 said:


> but even before discovering this thread, i noticed there is no phone number to call - not even for pre-sales support. sigh.
> 
> i am going to be kicking myself if i run into problems...
> 
> any thoughts?


I bought the fantom cross team ti. It's a great bike for the price. If you're not a relatively competent bike mechanic just be sure to factor in the price of a tune up or adjustment at your local shop. You're not going to have any major problems with the frame or components -- it's all solid -- but don't expect it to ride perfectly out of the box. The price is cheap enough that you can spend some money getting it right and still have a deal. If you want to spend more and get more personalized service I might recommend a lynskey. If you have a bit of DIY attitude or have a local shop you trust to tweak the bike then the BD bikes are a great deal.


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## MarvinK

the_ill_postino said:


> If you ... have a local shop you trust to tweak the bike then the BD bikes are a great deal.


If you have a local shop like that, you should probably just buy a bike from them.


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## gaucho206

on the web site currently the 2010 Motobecane Le ChampionTitanium is listed as 1699.99, but the text within the page says "The Process: When you order, your card is charged $1,999.95".
and then the drop-down menu selection area says 1699.99 for each bike.

if all you can do is email bd.com, and all you have is the web pages, then i would want the web pages to be accurate...just fyi to the friendly bd.com rep in the thread...it's a 10second fix.


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## gaucho206

if lukestein is/was a shill, i'm going to feel very violated


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## lancezneighbor

gaucho206 said:


> if lukestein is/was a shill, i'm going to feel very violated


Considering that "lukestein" had only two posts and 5 photos in over six months on this forum and all were to hype Bikes Direct, that tingly feeling in your nether bits might not be from the Podium Girls forum afterall.


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## fishcranium

*Confused NEWB*

This is my first post and I am hesitant to start with this forum under these threads. I have been reading as much as I can over the past few days. I see by the standard format that since I am NEWB I should start by saying that "I am not a shill". I will not do that because it is unbecoming of a new person who is trying to introduce themselves on this forum. My dilemma...I quit racing (mountain bike) 15 years ago and would like to start training again. I have been intrigued by motobecane bicycles for the same reason as anyone else...price point. This bike is the one that I have been looking at. Is there anyone with constructive criticism of the bicycle itself? am not interested in comments about the company (I have read many over the past week and am still confused), I have limited funding, I know how to fit a bike and like the geometry (on paper) of this bike. Any comments about this bike for an old NEWB with a limited budget would be appreciated. 

Thank you for your help

Scott in Flagstaff AZ (perhaps my name and location will help)


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## gaucho206

i'm in Seattle. i want a bike for the annual STP this summer. big long ride. i want a great bike to do it in!


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## tverrall

*I just got a Le Champion CF*

Well I read so much about BD, good and bad, I wondered and pondered, but then I pulled the card from my wallet and ordered.
I emailed first asked a few questions about size suggestion, bar width, difference between immortals and the le champ. Got responses fairly quickly, within 24 hrs. Finally the what the ... moment came, basically I decided that is all else failed I could toss the frame and keep all the components. 
The bike showed up last Thursday, box looked fine and undamaged. Grabbed a camera and took pictures all the way through the next few steps. Pulled it all out the box, put it all together, RD and FD needed small tweaks, about a 1/2 turn on the back. Wheels were so close to true I decided to leave them alone until I had some miles on them. Brakes needed adjusting but all pretty simple. So Thursday night I go for a quick 3 miles, and the bike felt nice. Friday rained so I sat it out. Saturday was a 15 mile feeler and all still felt very nice. Sunday I decided on a 35 miler and now I am hooked. This setup on the le champ feels as good or better than anything I test rode in the last few months. Stoked with my purchase and had no issues to deal with.
Good price and seems to be a very nice ride.


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## gearhead3571

*My new Motobecane Le Champion CF*

First off let me start by saying I am no Shill. I have never ordered from Bikes Direct before. I ordered my bike (Motobecane Le Champion 56 wh/gr) on 2-4-2010 and got the bike from UPS on 2-09-2010. I was very impressed by them. They gave me a phone number to call if I had any question which I did and they answered all of them well.The box and the bike had no damage at all.The bike looks great.the paint the parts Shimano Ultegra 10 sp and the wheels. I got home at 4:40 P.M. and started putting the bike together at 4:45 and was done at 5:20 it was very easy to do if you have any mechanical ability. It is true that you will need to have a pro check a few things.The front wheel needed to be true also the brakes and shifters need some minor adjustments but all in all the price paid for its well worth the extra you have to spend on a pro to make the adjustments.So far I love the bike but have not been able to ride it yet( we had a snow storm in N.Y.on 2-10 ) but I plan to put some heavy duty miles on it real soon. As soon as I do I will post my results.
Gearhead3571
Peekskill N.Y.


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## gearhead3571

*First ride*

I Hope My First Ride Goes As Well As Yours Did.
Gearhead3571


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## orangeclymer

gearhead3571 said:


> First off let me start by saying I am no Shill. I have never ordered from Bikes Direct before. I ordered my bike (Motobecane Le Champion 56 wh/gr) on 2-4-2010 and got the bike from UPS on 2-09-2010. I was very impressed by them. They gave me a phone number to call if I had any question which I did and they answered all of them well.The box and the bike had no damage at all.The bike looks great.the paint the parts Shimano Ultegra 10 sp and the wheels. I got home at 4:40 P.M. and started putting the bike together at 4:45 and was done at 5:20 it was very easy to do if you have any mechanical ability. It is true that you will need to have a pro check a few things.The front wheel needed to be true also the brakes and shifters need some minor adjustments but all in all the price paid for its well worth the extra you have to spend on a pro to make the adjustments.So far I love the bike but have not been able to ride it yet( we had a snow storm in N.Y.on 2-10 ) but I plan to put some heavy duty miles on it real soon. As soon as I do I will post my results.
> Gearhead3571
> Peekskill N.Y.


 Congrats on the new ride :thumbsup: i'm in the same situation as you about riding since our weather sucks too but just maybe this weekend it'll be dry and 40 degrees which i can deal with.
I suspect the shifters/derailleurs need some tweaking but i won't know for sure until the time comes i'm in the saddle.


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## PlatyPius

For the aid of future shills...




> First off let me start by saying I am no Shill. I have never ordered from Bikes Direct before. I ordered my bike (insert bike model here) on (insert date here) and got the bike from UPS on (insert date, no more than 5 days later, here). I was very impressed by them. They gave me a phone number to call if I had any question which I did and they answered all of them well. The box and the bike had no damage at all. The bike looks (great/awesome/bi+chin'/righteous). The paint, the parts (Insert Parts Group Here) and the wheels (Insert Wheel Model Here - Optional). I got home at (Time) and started putting the bike together at (Time) and was done at (Time - no longer than 45 minutes). It was very easy to do if you have any mechanical ability. It (Is/Is Not/Might Be) true that you will need to have a pro check a few things.The (Insert Very Minor Issues Here to avoid suspicion) but all in all the price paid for its well worth the extra you have to spend on a pro to make the adjustments. So far I love the bike but (Insert Weather, Personal, or Work Excuse Here). As soon as I do I will post my results.


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## orangeclymer

tverrall said:


> Well I read so much about BD, good and bad, I wondered and pondered, but then I pulled the card from my wallet and ordered.
> I emailed first asked a few questions about size suggestion, bar width, difference between immortals and the le champ. Got responses fairly quickly, within 24 hrs. Finally the what the ... moment came, basically I decided that is all else failed I could toss the frame and keep all the components.
> The bike showed up last Thursday, box looked fine and undamaged. Grabbed a camera and took pictures all the way through the next few steps. Pulled it all out the box, put it all together, RD and FD needed small tweaks, about a 1/2 turn on the back. Wheels were so close to true I decided to leave them alone until I had some miles on them. Brakes needed adjusting but all pretty simple. So Thursday night I go for a quick 3 miles, and the bike felt nice. Friday rained so I sat it out. Saturday was a 15 mile feeler and all still felt very nice. Sunday I decided on a 35 miler and now I am hooked. This setup on the le champ feels as good or better than anything I test rode in the last few months. Stoked with my purchase and had no issues to deal with.
> Good price and seems to be a very nice ride.


Saaaaaaaweet


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## gearhead3571

*Reply to Grumpy*

Think what you will,if it makes you feel better.I can understand a shop owners resentment.


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## PlatyPius

gearhead3571 said:


> Think what you will,if it makes you feel better.I can understand a shop owners resentment.


It isn't resentment, it's amusement. Y'all write your unsolicited reviews as if there's a template sent with each bike. And why do y'all find this site, post your review, and then never post again? Why is UPS always mentioned? Why does it seem that every single one of ya emails BD and asks stupid questions before you "pull out the credit card", and why do you always tell us this? If you really aren't a shill, go read a few of the thousands of reviews of BD bikes and then come back and tell me, with a straight face, that it doesn't sound like y'all are given a template for a "review" with each new bike purchased.


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## orangeclymer

PP

Much of what you say is true however UPS is the only source BD and assoc shops use for shipment. Lets face it those who purchase BD bikes online are doing so essentially site unseen, no touchly feely, no 5min test ride etc so emailing BD with questions is the norm unless your fortunate enough to live within driving distance of their shop.

Sharing the experience with like minded folk is all part of the joy some get when purchasing a new toy, bike, car/truck, plane, house, whatever but since this is an online purchase it garners even more attention right here in black n white.


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## gearhead3571

I can't speak of what other people write. I can only speak of what my experence was like and I don't work for UPS.


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## Solearas

PlatyPius said:


> It isn't resentment, it's amusement. Y'all write your unsolicited reviews as if there's a template sent with each bike. And why do y'all find this site, post your review, and then never post again? Why is UPS always mentioned? Why does it seem that every single one of ya emails BD and asks stupid questions before you "pull out the credit card", and why do you always tell us this? If you really aren't a shill, go read a few of the thousands of reviews of BD bikes and then come back and tell me, with a straight face, that it doesn't sound like y'all are given a template for a "review" with each new bike purchased.


Jealous of the model much? :cryin: 

Bike shop owners think a 10% discount is giving a bike away. "And as huge bonus, if you buy today I'll through in this water bottle for free". 

Where's your Ti frame and full 7900 offering for under $3k?

Mike, please add to my monthly Shill(TM) check.


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## PlatyPius

Solearas said:


> *Jealous of the model much?* :cryin:
> 
> Bike shop owners think a 10% discount is giving a bike away. "And as huge bonus, if you buy today I'll through in this water bottle for free".
> 
> Where's your Ti frame and full 7900 offering for under $3k?
> 
> Mike, please add to my monthly Shill(TM) check.


No, but each and every one of you (BD Cheerleaders) seems to think that it's always about me owning a bike shop. My replies on this thread have had nothing to do with that. My replies only relate to this message board and the number of these carbon copy "reviews" RBR and BF get.

Doesn't anyone else think it's beyond stupid to post a "review" of a bike that you've received, unboxed, assembled....but never ridden? There are lots of those. Go look in the Motobecane/Mercier forum. Most of the people who post these "reviews" have <10 posts; definitely less than 100 is the norm.

How do these comments, in ANY way, relate to my shop? They don't. So you can take your "jealous" and "resentment" comments and insert them rectally.


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## SystemShock

Solearas said:


> Jealous of the model much? :cryin:
> 
> Bike shop owners think a 10% discount is giving a bike away. "And as huge bonus, if you buy today I'll through in this water bottle for free".
> 
> Where's your Ti frame and full 7900 offering for under $3k?
> 
> Mike, please add to my monthly Shill(TM) check.


I'm not a shop owner, but with apologies to Mike, I have yet to see a BD model I'd be 'jealous' of or would lust after.

Maybe that'll change, if Mike's able to do those new Campy bikes he was discussing with us in a recent thread. Hope so.

If price is your one and only metric, then yeah, buy online. But if you want service, guidance, and to avoid costly mistakes, a good LBS can be your best friend. It costs more up front (but maybe not in the long run), but you get more, too.

Diff'rent strokes for diff'rent folks... both fill a need, and will continue to.
.


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## bikesdirect

We should all be in the business of getting more people to cycle; and to enjoy what we all love.

To that end, no new forum member or new cyclists should be attacked - it just makes no sense.

RBR, MTBR, BF, and so on are better off when they are places that welcome new members and new or returning cyclists.

There are a thousand reasons why bicycles are fantastic and why we should all want more and more happy cyclists.


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## PlatyPius

SystemShock said:


> I'm not a shop owner, but *with apologies to Mike, I have yet to see a BD model I'd be 'jealous' of or would lust after*.
> 
> Maybe that'll change, if Mike's able to do those new Campy bikes he was discussing with us in a recent thread. Hope so.
> 
> If price is your one and only metric, then yeah, buy online. But if you want service, guidance, and to avoid costly mistakes, a good LBS can be your best friend. It costs more up front (but maybe not in the long run), but you get more, too.
> 
> Diff'rent strokes for diff'rent folks... both fill a need, and will continue to.
> .


Actually....
That twin top tube bike he posted pictures of recently; I'd consider it lust-worthy. I'd like to have one, but it's February in the bike business...ain't gonna happen right now.


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## SystemShock

PlatyPius said:


> Actually....
> That twin top tube bike he posted pictures of recently; I'd consider it lust-worthy. I'd like to have one, but it's February in the bike business...ain't gonna happen right now.


Twin-top-tube like some of the Rivendell bikes, or twin-TT side-by-side?

If it's the former, that could be nice. If it's the latter... yargh.
.


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## covenant

bikesdirect said:


> To that end, no new forum member or new cyclists should be attacked - it just makes no sense.


It made sense back in 2006-2007 when your employees were the new members. :thumbsup:


----------



## PlatyPius

SystemShock said:


> Twin-top-tube like some of the Rivendell bikes, or twin-TT side-by-side?
> 
> If it's the former, that could be nice. If it's the latter... yargh.
> .












(Stolen from the bike island site)


----------



## bikesdirect

covenant said:


> It made sense back in 2006-2007 when your employees were the new members. :thumbsup:



Only if you knew who each poster was
and by the way; there are other companies that have employees post on forums to this day -- it never happend with my permission with our company: but for certain there are people paid to do that type of posting now by many companies -- Still no excuse to attack a cyclist IMHO


----------



## orangeclymer

SystemShock said:


> I'm not a shop owner, but with apologies to Mike, I have yet to see a BD model I'd be 'jealous' of or would lust after.
> 
> Maybe that'll change, if Mike's able to do those new Campy bikes he was discussing with us in a recent thread. Hope so.
> 
> Diff'rent strokes for diff'rent folks... both fill a need, and will continue to.
> .


Have you had the opportunity to see/touch feel the bike this very thread is titled after?? in my long search for a new all carbon bike beginning mid 09 i was out there in LBS's, scheels and any retailer that carried/stocked bikes and doing exactly what potential customers do, ie asking questions, short test rides, price checking etc only to find no brand had a bike offered for 1,499 (or less) with the components this very bike is delivered with. If it did the pricing was 2k or more. As we know the 90th percentile of CF frames/forks are produced in taiwan or china regardless of the name on the top/down tube, stays etc so it's really a no brainer purchase (atleast for me) :idea:


----------



## Solearas

SystemShock said:


> I'm not a shop owner, but with apologies to Mike, I have yet to see a BD model I'd be 'jealous' of or would lust after.
> 
> Maybe that'll change, if Mike's able to do those new Campy bikes he was discussing with us in a recent thread. Hope so.
> 
> If price is your one and only metric, then yeah, buy online. But if you want service, guidance, and to avoid costly mistakes, a good LBS can be your best friend. It costs more up front (but maybe not in the long run), but you get more, too.
> 
> Diff'rent strokes for diff'rent folks... both fill a need, and will continue to.
> .


My view is _only _from the high end bikes BD sells. I couldn't really afford them but I bought two in the
last 5 years, a carbon Fuji and the Ti/7900.

Before this Ti, I've purchased all local in the past (2 Specialized Hybrids, Cervelo etc) But probably no more. 
I checked out the LBS' Ti's. 
Craved a Litespeed and did weeks of research. But at then 
end of the day, price was the largest percentage of metric after
realizing Ti manufactures are few in number. The welds looked just 
as good as the others. And with 7900? Shiot, credit card time.

I mean, we _all _want to pay more and get less right?

And service at LBS's is just okay. After watching Youtube, I bought the basic tools needed so far.


----------



## cyclesport45

Lets make a new forum..." Moto bashers". And leave this one free for talking about the BIKES.


----------



## gearhead3571

Right on. Some people just don't have anything better to do, except maybe eating donuts.


----------



## Bertrand

*Good idea!!*

This is the best idea I've seen yet on the endless BD bashing/questioning/skepticism that goes on here. 



cyclesport45 said:


> Lets make a new forum..." Moto bashers". And leave this one free for talking about the BIKES.


----------



## PlatyPius

cyclesport45 said:


> Lets make a new forum..." Moto bashers". And leave this one free for talking about the BIKES.


Then perhaps people should write reviews about the BIKES, rather than their buying experience from BD, how the box looked, how easy it was to assemble, etc?


----------



## SimianSpeedster

*Hi There*

platypus
Hi, 
I'm not the most prolific poster on these forums, but have maybe posted enough not to be considered a shill, 
I own 
1976 raleigh sports
1982? Schwinn High Plains 
2005 Schwinn Fastback sport 
1990-something schwinn super sport re purposed for commuting
2003 Gary Fisher wahoo 
and a 2008 Motobecane fantom comp DS
my wife has 
2009 gary fisher advance
2007 Specialized crossroads elite
and a 2008 dawes lightning 1200
.. 
I think the initial experience with a bike purchase, is an important part of bike ownership, and should be mentioned in any review 
for example, my fastback, the bike shop had improperly assembled it and my cranks loosened up 2 rides in, the rear hub was not checked and lubed and began to grind and click a couple weeks later.. all of these things .. color my experience with the cycle, and deserve to be noted in reviews. though an argument can be made that neither reflects on the quality of the cycle itself, but rather of the person turning the wrenches. 
If the criteria for a review is simply that the cycle has to be ridden before reviewing, than I have scores of bikes I could review having taken many test rides "around the block" and "to the corner" from one of my LBS's What then is the criteria, 10 miles.. 100, a year of ownership? 
The people posting on this site are excited to share their new purchases and first impressions, and we should allow them to do so, without fear of derision just as others are allowed to expound on the virtues of the lbs. 
Finally to rant about the "mediocre reviews" on this thread seems silly in the extreme as the title of this thread is clearly "First impressions: 2010 Motobecane Le Champion CF"
If you don't enjoy reading these threads and hearing the excitement that these posters feel at their new acquisitions, perhaps you should simply not read them. there are thousands of other posts to peruse


----------



## gearhead3571

100% right.


----------



## covenant

Everybody loves drama..and the BD forums bring it! 

Succès de scandale.


----------



## Opus51569

SimianSpeedster said:


> platypus
> Hi,
> I'm not the most prolific poster on these forums, but have maybe posted enough not to be considered a shill,
> I own
> 1976 raleigh sports
> 1982? Schwinn High Plains
> 2005 Schwinn Fastback sport
> 1990-something schwinn super sport re purposed for commuting
> 2003 Gary Fisher wahoo
> and a 2008 Motobecane fantom comp DS
> my wife has
> 2009 gary fisher advance
> 2007 Specialized crossroads elite
> and a 2008 dawes lightning 1200
> ..
> I think the initial experience with a bike purchase, is an important part of bike ownership, and should be mentioned in any review
> for example, my fastback, the bike shop had improperly assembled it and my cranks loosened up 2 rides in, the rear hub was not checked and lubed and began to grind and click a couple weeks later.. all of these things .. color my experience with the cycle, and deserve to be noted in reviews. though an argument can be made that neither reflects on the quality of the cycle itself, but rather of the person turning the wrenches.
> If the criteria for a review is simply that the cycle has to be ridden before reviewing, than I have scores of bikes I could review having taken many test rides "around the block" and "to the corner" from one of my LBS's What then is the criteria, 10 miles.. 100, a year of ownership?
> The people posting on this site are excited to share their new purchases and first impressions, and we should allow them to do so, without fear of derision just as others are allowed to expound on the virtues of the lbs.
> Finally to rant about the "mediocre reviews" on this thread seems silly in the extreme as the title of this thread is clearly "First impressions: 2010 Motobecane Le Champion CF"
> If you don't enjoy reading these threads and hearing the excitement that these posters feel at their new acquisitions, perhaps you should simply not read them. there are thousands of other posts to peruse


To PlatyPius' point:

There's nothing wrong with sharing the initial buying experience, but the original post is from July. I don't think it's unreasonable to assume that the O.P. should be able to give a second impression by now. Since that time, the O.P. seems to have disappeared, while BikesDirect has been posting-a-plenty about the company wares. 

I don't know if the O.P. is/was a shill, but I would agree that there does seem to be a disproportionate number of people who post about the online buying experience, and don't follow it up. If they posted in the first place to share their experience, and/or to help dispel the bad press online retailers sometimes receive, why not continue to post? Rub all the nay-sayers' noses in just how great the bike continues to be on the road. 

These one-hit-wonder posts seem to be geared toward convincing would-be buyers to "pull out their cards" as well.

Keep pointing out the man behind the curtain, PlatyPius.


----------



## PlatyPius

Opus51569 said:


> To PlatyPius' point:
> 
> There's nothing wrong with sharing the initial buying experience, but the original post is from June. I don't think it's unreasonable to assume that the O.P. should be able to give a second impression by now. Since that time, the O.P. seems to have disappeared, while BikesDirect has been posting-a-plenty about the company wares.
> 
> I don't know if the O.P. is/was a shill, but I would agree that there does seem to be a disproportionate number of people who post about the online buying experience, and don't follow it up. If they posted in the first place to share their experience, and/or to help dispel the bad press online retailers sometimes receive, why not continue to post? Rub all the nay-sayers' noses in just how great the bike continues to be on the road.
> 
> These one-hit-wonder posts seem to be geared toward convincing would-be buyers to "pull out their cards" as well.
> 
> Keep pointing out the man behind the curtain, PlatyPius.


And that's why I haven't given orangeclymer any crap. He's been on the board a while, he's posted in various threads... He didn't show up one day and post about his awesome BD buying experience with his first or second post. Honestly....who would care or believe the review if the person had no credibility here at all? Is it that hard to hang around, BS a bit, answer/ask a few questions, and THEN post a review of your BIKE? Pictures of your new bike before you've ridden it are one thing. Even commenting that everything looked good and there weren't any smashed fork ends or such is ok. It's the guys who post an overly detailed step-by-step that sound "fake".

"My Motobecane from BikesDirect arrived at 4:38pm. I opened the box at 4:41pm after first fapping in the bathroom to the thought of my new bike. I then carefully opened the box. After fapping again, I reverently removed the items from the box, which consisted of the following..."

That, as a review, has no worth. Actually riding the bike and saying that it's lively, that it feels a little dead, that the steering seems fast/slow, that the wheels went out of true after 200 miles.... those are helpful. Verbal masturbation is not.


----------



## bikesdirect

Reviews

There are plenty of reveiws on how our bikes ride and hold up
One thread on BF has like 10,000 posts and close to 1 million veiws

There are plenty of customers who post there experiences
and in addition, most readers here know that our bikes are made in the same factories as plenty of other top brands

And magazine reveiws on Motobecanes in the last 10 years have been very clear

I think if a new bike buyer posts his bike and buying and shipping and setup experience; we should all share in his excitement - no matter what bike he got - welcome everyone to the sport we love and spread the word of how cycling can improve health, reduce polution, decrease conjestion, save fuel, leads to energy indepence, and lots of other positive effects [other than helping me learn to spell - which it does not seem to help with]


----------



## SystemShock

Solearas said:


> I mean, we _all _want to pay more and get less right?


Funny... long-term, I think that's what buying online would be like for me... pay more and get less. My LBS has saved me from a lot of bad buying decisions, and has provided test rides, fitting assistance, and great advice. 

I agree that if one's LBS is bad, or just does the bare minimum, and you know what you're doing, then you might as well buy online. But that isn't everybody, or even the majority, I'd think.

Oh, and what's with the big font you were posting in? You have eye issues and want to read your own posts better? :idea:
.


----------



## SystemShock

orangeclymer said:


> Have you had the opportunity to see/touch feel the bike this very thread is titled after??


Well, that's exactly it... you really can't.  

And this is an issue not only with bikes, but also with other industries using the 'online-only' model too. For the longest time you couldn't really touch a Dell before buying, for example, but you _could_ go into the Apple Store and ooh and aah and touch and look at and use their computers, thus givin' you the lust bug. 

Works apparently, judging from their sales in recent years.

Now Dell is in some brick-and-mortar stores, and even opened a 'Dell Store' in at least one location overseas. Interesting. 
.


----------



## SystemShock

PlatyPius said:


> It's the guys who post an overly detailed step-by-step that sound "fake".
> 
> "My Motobecane from BikesDirect arrived at 4:38pm. I opened the box at 4:41pm after first fapping in the bathroom to the thought of my new bike. I then carefully opened the box. After fapping again, I reverently removed the items from the box, which consisted of the following..."


ROFLMAO! :lol:
.


----------



## SimianSpeedster

*again this never said to be a review*



PlatyPius said:


> That, as a review, has no worth. Actually riding the bike and saying that it's lively, that it feels a little dead, that the steering seems fast/slow, that the wheels went out of true after 200 miles.... those are helpful. Verbal masturbation is not.


 The OP never said review, and certainly not in the title, spoke of first impressions, and that is exactly what it was. Heres what my initial impressions of my new toy were. 
and if the initial post is not helpful, which I happen to agree it's not terribly helpful, how helpful are your responses to it? what is gained by the negativity, your contrary posts are doing a fine job at keeping this thread at least for the moment at the top of the forum, which for me is fine. but seems counter to your overreaching goal


----------



## PlatyPius

The OP never returned after posting his "First Impressions". Ergo, the thread is open to whomever wants to lead it in whatever direction.


----------



## bikesdirect

PlatyPius said:


> The OP never returned after posting his "First Impressions". Ergo, the thread is open to whomever wants to lead it in whatever direction.



And do you wonder why the OP never returned?
How has the OP dropping out of RBR helped RBR? How has it helped cycling?

{I have receiwed countless PMs and emails from new cyclists who find the forums so mean sprited that they will never return -- some times its worse than just not waving - it is more like shooting the finger to other cyclists}

Sometimes I wonder what posters are thinking. 
I ones I wonder the most about are those that post 'bike X is ugly' - that just drives me nuts. Someone designs a bike that they think looks great; someone buys a bike that they think looks great; and then someone who claims to be a supporter of cycling throws cold water on another cyclist for owning a bike that is 'ugly'. I say any bike you safely enjoy and use is beautiful.

I really think there are lots of great ways to support cycling; I do not see how calling people names or making insane fashion comments about bikes helps us.

That is just my opinion


----------



## Dave Hickey

bikesdirect said:


> Sometimes I wonder what posters are thinking.
> I ones I wonder the most about are those that post 'bike X is ugly' - that just drives me nuts. Someone designs a bike that they think looks great; someone buys a bike that they think looks great; and then someone who claims to be a supporter of cycling throws cold water on another cyclist for owning a bike that is 'ugly'. I say any bike you safely enjoy and use is beautiful.
> 
> I really think there are lots of great ways to support cycling; I do not see how calling people names or making insane fashion comments about bikes helps us.
> 
> That is just my opinion



+1 Mike...I totally agree with what you say but this is not unique to RBR and it's not just BD bikes.....If someone wants to read mean spirited comments, post a pic of a bike on Bike Forums( in particular in the single speed forum).


----------



## worst_shot_ever

Understanding the danger of going afield, but I agree -- online cycling sites do seem to have a significant component of pricks. I've noticed it here, and even moreseo elsewhere. Golf forums are bad too, but cycling are far worse. Strange, since most of the people I meet on rides are pretty cool.

Anyway, it is a shame that the OP didn't come back. I thought his initial imperssion post was fairly thorough, and would have liked to see a thorough report after a significant period of ownership.


----------



## PlatyPius

bikesdirect said:


> And do you wonder why the OP never returned?
> How has the OP dropping out of RBR helped RBR? How has it helped cycling?
> 
> {I have receiwed countless PMs and emails from new cyclists who find the forums so mean sprited that they will never return -- some times its worse than just not waving - it is more like shooting the finger to other cyclists}
> 
> Sometimes I wonder what posters are thinking.
> I ones I wonder the most about *are those that post 'bike X is ugly' - that just drives me nuts. Someone designs a bike that they think looks great; someone buys a bike that they think looks great; and then someone who claims to be a supporter of cycling throws cold water on another cyclist for owning a bike that is 'ugly'.* I say any bike you safely enjoy and use is beautiful.
> 
> I really think there are lots of great ways to support cycling; I do not see how calling people names or making insane fashion comments about bikes helps us.
> 
> That is just my opinion


That's one you never see me do. For instance, the Kilo OS. I like it, but a lot of people said it was crap. Knowing that you designed that one yourself, even if I DID think it was hideous I wouldn't post that. There are a lot of bikes that do nothing for me. There are a few bike manufacturers (brands, rather) that I detest. I may post a general "I hate Trek", but I won't put down someone's bike because it's a Trek. Disliking the company and their policies and disliking their bikes are two different things.

You know that I disagree with some of your policies, and I've stated that on the forums. That hasn't stopped me from recommending certain BD bikes to people who can't afford one that I sell. Chances are, I'll get the accessory sales, the repairs/tune-ups, and such.

I think the board in general has more of a problem with people with 0-5 posts posting an "I'm not a shill, but I ordered a bike from BikesDirect...." topic than they do with active members posting about their BD bikes. It would be the same if I joined a board and posted about my awesome Raleigh/Gunnar/Scott/Co-Motion with my first post. Where is the background? What defines the user as a valid source of information or objectivity?

That has been my impression in the time that I've been here. I could be completely wrong.


----------



## MarvinK

It is pretty amazing how deep the anti-Trek sentiment runs... probably even deeper than the Motobecane one! 

It's hard to understand why people are so anti-Trek. I guess part of it is the big name. On the other hand, only SRAM competes with Trek in terms of cycling advocacy efforts. They still make some bikes in the US. They have technology that competes with anyone. They support local bike shops and never sell bikes online.

Oh, wait... PlatyPius works for a shop that doesn't sell Trek. I guess that might be it. Probably part of the anti-Motobecane sentiment, too.


----------



## PlatyPius

MarvinK said:


> It is pretty amazing how deep the anti-Trek sentiment runs... probably even deeper than the Motobecane one!
> 
> It's hard to understand why people are so anti-Trek. I guess part of it is the big name. On the other hand, only SRAM competes with Trek in terms of cycling advocacy efforts. They still make some bikes in the US. They have technology that competes with anyone. They support local bike shops and never sell bikes online.
> *
> Oh, wait... PlatyPius works for a shop that doesn't sell Trek. I guess that might be it. Probably part of the anti-Motobecane sentiment, too.*


PlatyPius *owns* a shop that *chooses* to not sell Trek - get it right, sparky. Trek wants 70+% of your shop to be Trek-specific. That's why I don't like Trek. I would probably sell more bikes if I carried Trek. But I wouldn't be able to respect myself any longer.

And do you really think you're revealing some huge secret as to why I might not like Motobecane? It says right there above my avatar that I own a bike shop. It's not a surprise to anyone but you, apparently.


----------



## robpar

PlatyPius said:


> Then perhaps people should write reviews about the BIKES, rather than their buying experience from BD, how the box looked, how easy it was to assemble, etc?


 I think the reviews/comments... whatever, help prospective buyers like myself. My next bike might be BD bike, the only problem I have with BD bikes is that there is always some component I don't like (brakes or wheels or crank or cassette or the RD/FD mix ) If I find the right "mix", the price is almost what I would pay at my LBS.

I would probably just buy a frame/fork and build it up myself... but then if I'm gonna do that, why limit myself just to BD frames? So I've never bought from BD yet.


----------



## SimianSpeedster

*motobecane*



PlatyPius said:


> And do you really think you're revealing some huge secret as to why I might not like Motobecane? It says right there above my avatar that I own a bike shop. It's not a surprise to anyone but you, apparently.


 Please do not take this the wrong way, but have you thought about selling motobecanes yourself? I remember having read here maybe a year or so ago that, BD/MOTO would be happy to work with/sell through peoples bike shops, and that they were even starting to branch out away from FL/TX and sell in other states. I quite like my fantom, and my wife enjoys her Dawes. It seems perhaps that you may be able to offer decent bikes at a nice price. Again this question is not meant to draw your ire, so please do not take it as an affront to you or your shop.. which looks nifty by the way http://forums.roadbikereview.com/showthread.php?t=191264
he details the process of opening and running his place here for anyone interested, it is intriguing and worth browsing through


----------



## PlatyPius

SimianSpeedster said:


> Please do not take this the wrong way, but have you thought about selling motobecanes yourself? I remember having read here maybe a year or so ago that, BD/MOTO would be happy to work with/sell through peoples bike shops, and that they were even starting to branch out away from FL/TX and sell in other states. I quite like my fantom, and my wife enjoys her Dawes. It seems perhaps that you may be able to offer decent bikes at a nice price. Again this question is not meant to draw your ire, so please do not take it as an affront to you or your shop.. which looks nifty by the way http://forums.roadbikereview.com/showthread.php?t=191264
> he details the process of opening and running his place here for anyone interested, it is intriguing and worth browsing through


Honestly? I wouldn't mind selling some of them. The problem is, his margin has to be so low on the ones that he sells online, that there's no way he could sell them to me for less than that, AND me make any kind of money on them. If I could sell the Kilo for what he sells it for online, I'd have some in my store. Likewise some of the touring bikes.


----------



## SystemShock

covenant said:


> Everybody loves drama..and the BD forums bring it!
> 
> Succès de scandale.


Yup. The cycle pretty much runs like this...


*shill post or something that looks a _lot_ like prior proven shill posts is posted on a non-BD forum*

Long-time posters: Aww, hell no, not this crap again!

BD fanbois & employees: You're ANTI-CYCLING and MEAN 'cuz you're calling our shill a shill!... err, we mean, you're ANTI-CYCLING and MEAN 'cuz you're just jealous of the great deals we got an' stuff!

LT posters: No we're not, you're anti-NOT-SUCKING 'cuz you keep on with this shill bull****. Please stop, or at least keep it to the BD forum.

BD fanbois & employees: It's so sad that a cycling enthusiast must suffer the slings and arrows of...

LT posters: AW, JUST SHADDUP. You're not foolin' anybody. 

BD fanbois & employees: We're legit! We really are! You're hateful!

LT posters: *walk away in disgust mumbling*


... and so it goes, ever on... 

*facepalm*
.


----------



## SystemShock

MarvinK said:


> It is pretty amazing how deep the anti-Trek sentiment runs... probably even deeper than the Motobecane one!


Probably true, at least on RBR. Trek is so ubiquitous that it's gotten obnoxious. So a backlash against 'em is only to be expected.

That said, I may be buying a used 1980s one soon.  
.


----------



## SystemShock

PlatyPius said:


> (Stolen from the bike island site)


Have to admit, that looks nice.

The Rivendell double-TT bikes are probably nicer, but no doubt pricier as well.
.


----------



## Dave Hickey

SystemShock said:


> Have to admit, that looks nice.
> 
> The Rivendell double-TT bikes are probably nicer, but no doubt pricier as well.
> .



For the Kilo models, I like the new one with chrome stays......

The double TT model needed curved tubes in my opinion....like this....


----------



## PlatyPius

Dave Hickey said:


> For the Kilo models, I like the new one with chrome stays......
> 
> The double TT model needed curved tubes in my opinion....like this....


I WANT!

WOT IS?


----------



## bikesdirect

SystemShock said:


> Yup. The cycle pretty much runs like this...
> 
> 
> *shill post or something that looks a _lot_ like prior proven shill posts is posted on a non-BD forum*
> 
> Long-time posters: Aww, hell no, not this crap again!
> 
> BD fanbois & employees: You're ANTI-CYCLING and MEAN 'cuz you're calling our shill a shill!... err, we mean, you're ANTI-CYCLING and MEAN 'cuz you're just jealous of the great deals we got an' stuff!
> 
> LT posters: No we're not, you're anti-NOT-SUCKING 'cuz you keep on with this shill bull****. Please stop, or at least keep it to the BD forum.
> 
> BD fanbois & employees: It's so sad that a cycling enthusiast must suffer the slings and arrows of...
> 
> LT posters: AW, JUST SHADDUP. You're not foolin' anybody.
> 
> BD fanbois & employees: We're legit! We really are! You're hateful!
> 
> LT posters: *walk away in disgust mumbling*
> 
> 
> ... and so it goes, ever on...
> 
> *facepalm*
> .



YES
and you left out the most important part
THE OP - who is a new cyclist or at least a new forum member reads these posts and determines that the forum is full of jerks and decides to not come back. Thus the similar impact as shotting another cyclist the finger when you ride by. So how does it help cycling oir this forum?

I have no control over who posts about their new BD purchase: other than making sure non of my employees post anything on cycling forums - which I do.

It is up to the long term posters here to decide how they want to treat new members.


----------



## texasdiver

Oh geez guys.

My cousin owns a LBS. Or did. He sold Cannondale, Specialized, Trek, and Giant. Finally he got into recumbents, folding bikes, and whatever else he could sell like rollerblades. I worked there assembling bikes in the 1980s when I was in college. Eventually he went into internet sales of recumbents and finally gave up the business to take up trucking.

Bikes Direct did not put him out of business. Wal-Mart did. At least BD sells decent bikes at a decent price. No one buys kids bikes at bike shops anymore. They go to Wal-Mart and buy $49 pieces of junk steel with princess and Dora the Explorer stickers on them.

All BD has done is figured out how to cut out the middle man and drop-ship the Taiwanese bikes directly to the customer instead of to a LBS where some kid spends 30 minutes pulling it out of the box and putting it together. And when I buy my next road bike I'll probably buy it on the internet.

I do a lot of scuba diving and it's the same thing there. Local scuba shops scream about internet sales of scuba gear and lack of service. I wouldn't let most of them go near any of my regulators. I service them myself or ship them to the factory. And I buy a lot of diver gear on the internet. Local camera shops scream about internet sales of cameras. Local computer shops scream about Dell. Local bookstores scream about Amazon. 

Life goes on.

Go ride your bike.

PS....I like that BD gets up here and posts about their bikes. I wish someone from Cannondale would do the same so I could give them a piece of my mind about their HeadShok.


----------



## covenant




----------



## PlatyPius

texasdiver said:


> Oh geez guys.
> 
> My cousin owns a LBS. Or did. He sold Cannondale, Specialized, Trek, and Giant. Finally he got into recumbents, folding bikes, and whatever else he could sell like rollerblades. I worked there assembling bikes in the 1980s when I was in college. Eventually he went into internet sales of recumbents and finally gave up the business to take up trucking.
> 
> Bikes Direct did not put him out of business. Wal-Mart did. At least BD sells decent bikes at a decent price. No one buys kids bikes at bike shops anymore. They go to Wal-Mart and buy $49 pieces of junk steel with princess and Dora the Explorer stickers on them.
> 
> All BD has done is figured out how to cut out the middle man and drop-ship the Taiwanese bikes directly to the customer instead of to a LBS where some kid spends 30 minutes pulling it out of the box and putting it together. And when I buy my next road bike I'll probably buy it on the internet.
> 
> I do a lot of scuba diving and it's the same thing there. Local scuba shops scream about internet sales of scuba gear and lack of service. I wouldn't let most of them go near any of my regulators. I service them myself or ship them to the factory. And I buy a lot of diver gear on the internet. Local camera shops scream about internet sales of cameras. Local computer shops scream about Dell. Local bookstores scream about Amazon.
> 
> Life goes on.
> 
> Go ride your bike.
> 
> PS....I like that BD gets up here and posts about their bikes. I wish someone from Cannondale would do the same so I could give them a piece of my mind about their HeadShok.


And do you think we're better off now? Personally, I miss being able to walk into a camera store to buy a camera, ask the sales people about the various models, have them show me the different features, etc.

I can't really say the same for computer stores... I sold computers and parts for a while, but got out of it once I saw where the industry was headed. There wasn't that much benefit to having a brick-and-mortar computer store.

What about cars? Would you buy cars online and then have no dealership backing once you had taken delivery? I like knowing that the dealership is there to service the things that a local shop can't do, to cover my warranty issues, recalls, etc.

There are many things that can be purchased online that make sense. Coffeemakers, toasters, plates & silverware, sheetsets, comforters.... No one repairs modern appliances - they're "toss-when-broken" now.

Some things still need a dealer network/local store though, IMO. Cars, bikes, cameras (to a degree), clothing, shoes, jewelery, high-end audio, major appliances, etc. If you know a certain bike is going to fit (withOUT using one of those horrible LBSs...) and can work on the bike yourself, then I don't see a problem with buying a BD or other internet-store bike (although BD is the only one I know that has bikes that I would feel safe riding).

Why do so many people treat a bicycle purchase - a vehicle that you're trusting yourself to at 40mph down a twisty descent - as a "Buy-as-cheap-as-you-can" decision? I'm not talking BD here... I'm referring to other posts I've seen throughout the board where people recommend finding some piece of crap in a dumpster and riding it. Or buying some Wal-Mart piece of crap and riding it instead of spending the "ridiculous amounts" that bike shops charge for a bike. Do they also think people should pick out a car at a junk yard and drive that?

I understand being thrifty... but seriously; some of you make me feel embarrassed for you. I can picture some of y'all turning 1 roll of 2-ply arsewipe into two rolls of single-ply while eating tomato soup made from free ketchup packets from McDonald's....


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## DCinNY

I prefer online in most cases. I bought a car by negotiating with a sales person online. Most satisfying car purchase I ever made... was able to easily show 2 different dealers eachothers offers. I'm also broke. The discount that I see in some of these bikes allows me to be a part of the sport. Otherwise I'd be watching. For me it's worth weeding through all of these reviews, authentic or not, and worth the risk of not having the initial support of the bike shop guy.


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## SystemShock

PlatyPius said:


> And do you think we're better off now? Personally, I miss being able to walk into a camera store to buy a camera, ask the sales people about the various models, have them show me the different features, etc.
> 
> I can't really say the same for computer stores... I sold computers and parts for a while, but got out of it once I saw where the industry was headed. There wasn't that much benefit to having a brick-and-mortar computer store.
> 
> What about cars? Would you buy cars online and then have no dealership backing once you had taken delivery? I like knowing that the dealership is there to service the things that a local shop can't do, to cover my warranty issues, recalls, etc.
> 
> There are many things that can be purchased online that make sense. Coffeemakers, toasters, plates & silverware, sheetsets, comforters.... No one repairs modern appliances - they're "toss-when-broken" now.
> 
> Some things still need a dealer network/local store though, IMO. Cars, bikes, cameras (to a degree), clothing, shoes, jewelery, high-end audio, major appliances, etc. If you know a certain bike is going to fit (withOUT using one of those horrible LBSs...) and can work on the bike yourself, then I don't see a problem with buying a BD or other internet-store bike (although BD is the only one I know that has bikes that I would feel safe riding).
> 
> Why do so many people treat a bicycle purchase - a vehicle that you're trusting yourself to at 40mph down a twisty descent - as a "Buy-as-cheap-as-you-can" decision? I'm not talking BD here... I'm referring to other posts I've seen throughout the board where people recommend finding some piece of crap in a dumpster and riding it. Or buying some Wal-Mart piece of crap and riding it instead of spending the "ridiculous amounts" that bike shops charge for a bike. Do they also think people should pick out a car at a junk yard and drive that?
> 
> I understand being thrifty... but seriously; some of you make me feel embarrassed for you. I can picture some of y'all turning 1 roll of 2-ply arsewipe into two rolls of single-ply while eating tomato soup made from free ketchup packets from McDonald's....


Stop making sense, Plat. The swarms of mysteriously ultra-low-post-count BD fanbois will always insist that online-ness is next-to-godliness, and that the mean ol' LBSes are just money pits, no matter how good the service is, or how much money they save you via good advice that keeps you from making bad buying decisions. The only thing these kiddies know is the up-front price.

*facepalm*
.


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## PlatyPius

SystemShock said:


> Stop making sense, Plat. The swarms of mysteriously ultra-low-post-count BD fanbois will always insist that online-ness is next-to-godliness, and that the mean ol' LBSes are just money pits, no matter how good the service is, or how much money they save you via good advice that keeps you from making bad buying decisions. The only thing these kiddies know is the up-front price.
> 
> *facepalm*
> .


yeah, most of them probably ride on the rail-trails/MUPs that local bike shops have campaigned for and donated money to.

So.... you'll forgive me if I'm a little hesitant to donate money to any cause that might benefit online bike buyers...


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## MarvinK

Ya, it is strange that they always prefer online, but they only seem to use online forums as shills after they buy a bike. You'd think online shoppers would be regulars on internet bike forums.


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## PlatyPius

DCinNY said:


> I prefer online in most cases. I bought a car by negotiating with a sales person online. Most satisfying car purchase I ever made... was able to easily show 2 different dealers eachothers offers. *I'm also broke. The discount that I see in some of these bikes allows me to be a part of the sport. Otherwise I'd be watching.* For me it's worth weeding through all of these reviews, authentic or not, and worth the risk of not having the initial support of the bike shop guy.


See, that's different.

You're the sort of customer who - if you came into my shop - I'd make a recommendation of which BD bike to buy. Or I'd recommend a good eBay or Craigslist bike.


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## orangeclymer

MarvinK said:


> Ya, it is strange that they always prefer online, but they only seem to use online forums as shills after they buy a bike. You'd think online shoppers would be regulars on internet bike forums.


some are some aren't..............it's ones prerogative just as it is with purchases.


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## texasdiver

PlatyPius said:


> And do you think we're better off now? Personally, I miss being able to walk into a camera store to buy a camera, ask the sales people about the various models, have them show me the different features, etc.
> 
> I can't really say the same for computer stores... I sold computers and parts for a while, but got out of it once I saw where the industry was headed. There wasn't that much benefit to having a brick-and-mortar computer store.
> 
> What about cars? Would you buy cars online and then have no dealership backing once you had taken delivery? I like knowing that the dealership is there to service the things that a local shop can't do, to cover my warranty issues, recalls, etc.
> 
> There are many things that can be purchased online that make sense. Coffeemakers, toasters, plates & silverware, sheetsets, comforters.... No one repairs modern appliances - they're "toss-when-broken" now.
> 
> Some things still need a dealer network/local store though, IMO. Cars, bikes, cameras (to a degree), clothing, shoes, jewelery, high-end audio, major appliances, etc. If you know a certain bike is going to fit (withOUT using one of those horrible LBSs...) and can work on the bike yourself, then I don't see a problem with buying a BD or other internet-store bike (although BD is the only one I know that has bikes that I would feel safe riding).
> 
> Why do so many people treat a bicycle purchase - a vehicle that you're trusting yourself to at 40mph down a twisty descent - as a "Buy-as-cheap-as-you-can" decision? I'm not talking BD here... I'm referring to other posts I've seen throughout the board where people recommend finding some piece of crap in a dumpster and riding it. Or buying some Wal-Mart piece of crap and riding it instead of spending the "ridiculous amounts" that bike shops charge for a bike. Do they also think people should pick out a car at a junk yard and drive that?
> 
> I understand being thrifty... but seriously; some of you make me feel embarrassed for you. I can picture some of y'all turning 1 roll of 2-ply arsewipe into two rolls of single-ply while eating tomato soup made from free ketchup packets from McDonald's....


Bought my wife's Honda from a local dealer. What a monster headache. Still get upset when i think about it 5 years later. Bought my Toyota online. Easiest car purchase ever. Showed up at the dealer and took 5 minutes worth of paperwork and I was out of there. Internet is especially good for car purchases because you can print and examine all the paperwork in advance so they can't jerk you around at the last minute.

As for dealers? I gave up dealing with my local dealers a long time ago. My local mechanic is better. He's right down the street. And yes, he can do warranty work.

Yes, I'd love to live in the age when my local main street was full of mom and pop stores. Then again, I remember following the Tour de France standings in the fine print at the back of the sports section next to the racing forms. And I thought I was lucky that there were even printing them.

You can't get instant global media and only local retail. World doesn't work like that.

I know it sucks if you own a local bike shop, book shop, camera shop, shoe store, etc. etc.

In any event, I'd be curious to know how Bikes Direct sales compare to REI, Performance, Colorado Cyclist, Nashbar, Excel Sports and all the other online bike retailers.


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## lancezneighbor

texasdiver said:


> Bought my wife's Honda from a local dealer. What a monster headache. Still get upset when i think about it 5 years later. Bought my Toyota online. Easiest car purchase ever. Showed up at the dealer and took 5 minutes worth of paperwork and I was out of there. Internet is especially good for car purchases because you can print and examine all the paperwork in advance so they can't jerk you around at the last minute.
> 
> As for dealers? I gave up dealing with my local dealers a long time ago. My local mechanic is better. He's right down the street. And yes, he can do warranty work.
> 
> Yes, I'd love to live in the age when my local main street was full of mom and pop stores. Then again, I remember following the Tour de France standings in the fine print at the back of the sports section next to the racing forms. And I thought I was lucky that there were even printing them.
> 
> You can't get instant global media and only local retail. World doesn't work like that.
> 
> I know it sucks if you own a local bike shop, book shop, camera shop, shoe store, etc. etc.
> 
> In any event, I'd be curious to know how Bikes Direct sales compare to REI, Performance, Colorado Cyclist, Nashbar, Excel Sports and all the other online bike retailers.


Check the return policy of REI or Performance. Compare to Bikes Direct.


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## MarvinK

Performance is awful to work with, but REI is better than even Costco. A guy who used to work at our local shop moved to a bigger city to manage the bike service department. He said it makes him sick to see some of the stuff that people return. Scott carbon bikes more than a season old... because the seat isn't comfortable (or some other similar reasoning). I think that is going too far--but I guess that's why you don't find many great deals at REI. Awesome service, though.


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## DCinNY

PlatyPius said:


> See, that's different.
> 
> You're the sort of customer who - if you came into my shop - I'd make a recommendation of which BD bike to buy. Or I'd recommend a good eBay or Craigslist bike.


And for that, I wish I could shop at your place. You're not in upstate ny are you?


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## DCinNY

SystemShock said:


> Stop making sense, Plat. The swarms of mysteriously ultra-low-post-count BD fanbois will always insist that online-ness is next-to-godliness, and that the mean ol' LBSes are just money pits, no matter how good the service is, or how much money they save you via good advice that keeps you from making bad buying decisions. The only thing these kiddies know is the up-front price.
> 
> *facepalm*
> .


So, how many posts does a person need before they earn respect? Before you made the ranks of greatness here at the forum, were you also bashed for not having many posts? Is this a right of passage? Hazing, like in a fraternity? Maybe RBR should set up a forum for low post count people where they can earn the right to post in the high post count forums. 

I came to the Motebecane-Mercier forum to inquire about these bikes that I knew little about. Now that I've been reading all of your posts since October, I've come across some people who do provide forum worthy information, who actually own these bikes and have had experience with them, and others who just have a severe addiction to drama and a weird sense of social status based on forum post counts.


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## MarvinK

Just think how many posts you or I would have if we talked as much as SystemShock!!


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## SystemShock

Covenant said:


> Don't listen to SystemShock....he's still new here...2008? Pfft!


Exactly! I'm practically an RBR n00b myself, so I can't exactly be accused of n00b-bashing. :lol:




MarvinK said:


> Just think how many posts you or I would have if we talked as much as SystemShock!!


It'd be crazy. But sadly, my post-per-day average cannot touch the likes of JoeDaddio, MB1, and some others. 

edit– holy carp. Just looked at Bocephus's post count and PPD avg. 
.


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## covenant

Where'd my post go? 
Friendly ribbing was all it was, SystemShock gets it. :thumbsup:


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## gearhead3571

If I'm not in upstate N.Y. Then you tell me where I'm at.


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## gearhead3571

Sorry wrong post. That was'nt me.


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## SystemShock

covenant said:


> Where'd my post go?
> Friendly ribbing was all it was, SystemShock gets it. :thumbsup:


I sure didn't have a problem with it. That's odd.
.


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## SystemShock

DCinNY said:


> So, how many posts does a person need before they earn respect? Before you made the ranks of greatness here at the forum, were you also bashed for not having many posts? Is this a right of passage? Hazing, like in a fraternity? Maybe RBR should set up a forum for low post count people where they can earn the right to post in the high post count forums.


Sigh. Yet another BD-booster playing the victim card. Ya hate to see it.
.


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## orangeclymer

gearhead3571 said:


> Sorry wrong post. That was'nt me.


quite a bit of that goes on here I see.


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## SystemShock

orangeclymer said:


> quite a bit of that goes on here I see.


A lil' bit suspicious, eh? 

And yeah, looking at his past posts, 'Gearhead' is of course a low-post-count BD-booster. Color me shockified:



gearhead3571 said:


> Think what you will,if it makes you feel better.I can understand a shop owners resentment.


.


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## texasdiver

lancezneighbor said:


> Check the return policy of REI or Performance. Compare to Bikes Direct.


Right. Either way it's internet sales vs local bike shop unless you live near an REI or Performance which I don't. The LBS is just as screwed if I order a Novara from REI as if I order a Motobecane from BD. Question I have to ask myself is whether the REI return policy is worth the 40% markup (or whatever it is). Either way we're basically talking about some Shimano group installed on a Taiwanese frame.


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## orangeclymer

texasdiver said:


> Either way we're basically talking about some Shimano group installed on a Taiwanese frame.


Which is what 90% of ALL makes/models are except when they thrown on some Campyolaspaghetto el groupo!! :lol:


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## SystemShock

LOL. I just happened to be checking out something about Ti frames on Bikeforums.net, and... apparently, BD and its band of followers are not much beloved over there either. Wow.

*http://www.bikeforums.net/showthread.php?596218-Is-there-still-a-market-for-titanium-frames-or-a-groupbuy&p=9910142&viewfull=1#post9910142*


So, the next time you complain that RBRers are so mean to you, try to keep it in perspective.
.


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## bikesdirect

SystemShock said:


> LOL. I just happened to be checking out something about Ti frames on Bikeforums.net, and... apparently, BD and its band of followers are not much beloved over there either. Wow.
> 
> *http://www.bikeforums.net/showthread.php?596218-Is-there-still-a-market-for-titanium-frames-or-a-groupbuy&p=9910142&viewfull=1#post9910142*
> 
> 
> So, the next time you complain that RBRers are so mean to you, try to keep it in perspective.
> .



BF, RBR, MTBR all have haters and lovers of about every brand and seller

in the sub forums: BF is somewhat different -- SS/FG forum is very diffferent than Road

But there are a ton of our customers posting on BF about Moto Ti bikes that just love them; same is true in the MTBR forum - especially concerning the Fly Team 29er Ti - all the positive posts about that bike make me blush

very interesting Ti opinions here

http://www.bikeforums.net/showthread.php?585080-2010-Motobecane-Le-Champ-Team-Ti&highlight=le+champion+Ti

http://www.bikeforums.net/showthread.php?566206-2010-Motobecane-Le-Champion-Team-Titanium-In-Stock-Dura-Ace-7900&highlight=le+champion+Ti

http://www.bikeforums.net/showthread.php?413679-Fly-Ti-MTB-has-landed&highlight=le+champion+Ti

and this post with about 10,000 enties and way over 1 million views on our Kilo TT is one of the longest most detailed posts I have seen in a forum [and this is an almost entirely positive post] http://www.bikeforums.net/showthread.php?305822-Mercier-Kilo-TT-Pictures

I think forums are great
and most members are fantastic
but a few do not think about the impact of their posts on others and on cycling


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## DCinNY

ok, I get it, I'm an ultra-low-post count shill. There is no way to prove that I am not. I will embrace it then. Even though I don't own one of their bikes. Not yet. 

Bikes direct - I think you should rename the Le champ to "The Shill Maker".


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