# Do women start with kicking leg over seat?



## lawrence (May 17, 2005)

Not to mislead anyone on this forum, I'm a man and a new rider this year. I am also a ride leader this year for D rides. Most of my riders are women and I only have a few riders.

Not only do I lead the rides but I teach riding skills to these riders such as bike handling, where to ride in the lanes in traffic, hand positioning on the bars, shifting, gears, braking, climbing hills, descending, cornering, body positioning, pace line riding (not drafting), cadence, safety, nutrition, and simple bike maintenance. The bike maintenance includes removing the wheels including the back wheel, cleaning and lubing the chain and I also show everyone how to remove the tube and patch a flat.

Now as we will be coming into the riding season this spring I'm confused about something I should or should not be teaching them.

All the women in my ride group start their bike the same way. They lean the bike over a little and kick their leg over the top tube so they are straddling the bike. Same position as when we stop for a red light. They then push a little with their foot and as the bike moves forward they put their foot on the pedal and sit on the saddle.

Women straddle their bike to start, Men don't.

Men when they start the bicycle, they put their left foot on the pedal and push off with their right, either once or several times. As the bike starts to move forward they kick their leg up and around the seat and onto the other pedals.

The men tend to have more movement with the bike.

Why don't women start a bike the same way as men? Is there any reason they can't?

The reason I ask, as I rethink my teaching for this spring, a woman got hurt (minor scrapes and bruises) on one of my rides in December. We had just walked across a closed bridge to cars, open to walkers, and at the end was a steel barrier we walked around. Now we were at the bottom of a fairly steep hill. I showed everyone that they have to have some momentum and the best way is to put your foot on the pedal and push off bringing your leg up and around the bike. I continued with the best way to do this on this hill is not to do this going up the hill because you may slow down too much and then fall. The best way is to start from the right side of the road, push and start your bike at a small diagonal to the left side of the road while kicking your leg up over the saddle. When you go slightly sideways, you don't have much of a hill to contend with. This way you can get the momentum up to turn to the right and start pedaling up the hill. One of the ladies did not do it that way. She straddled the bike and started to push off going up the hill. Because of the hill, there was no momentum and she fell sideways. The other 3 ladies in the group all walked up the hill with her, all afraid to try the hill.

Come April, I want to teach them this riding technique again as I did not emphasize it this year. Is there any reason why I shouldn't show them, have them try it, practice it, by swinging their leg over the saddle?


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## SadieKate (Feb 22, 2006)

1) Starting diagonally across the road must be done with great care due to traffic - and newbies tend to not look for traffic when starting.
2) In mtbiking everyone is taught to straddle and sit on their bike (if possible) to put traction on the bike (drive) wheel
3) Sometimes the most effective and safest uphill start is to straddle the bike, clip in with one leg and one-legged pedal to get your momentum going. I suggest _you _learn and teach this latter technique. It could save you some scrapes and bruises one day.
4) Where do you live that all men do things one way and all women do it another? My mind is just boggled with this one.


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## Dave Hickey (Jan 27, 2002)

ditto, I'm a male who rides a lot and I never kick my leg over...I always straddle...I haven't kicked a leg over since I was a kid..


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## Argentius (Aug 26, 2004)

*Hrm...*



lawrence said:


> I'm a man and a new rider this year... Not only do I lead the rides but I teach riding skills to these riders ...


No offense, but shouldn't someone who isn't a new rider this year be teaching the other newbs the skills? Otherwise, we'd have the blind leading the blind, wouldn't we?



lawrence said:


> Men when they start the bicycle, they put their left foot on the pedal and push off with their right, either once or several times. As the bike starts to move forward they kick their leg up and around the seat and onto the other pedals.


Woah, wait, you are saying they start with both feet on the left side of the bike, then swing one over as the bike is in motion? NOBODY does that, as far as roadies go, except for the "flying leap" remount in cyclocross! Watch any group of experienced riders at a stoplight; if they do not trackstand then they simply unclip their right foot and set it down, either leaning the bike slightly or just sliding forward and sitting on their top tube. At the coffee shop or whatev, we all do the 'top-tube-chair' manoeuvre.


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## SadieKate (Feb 22, 2006)

I stay far, far away from the flying remounters when riding in a group. They usually wander all over the place and into someone's path - and I've been pondering the corollary that these people are also the worst offenders in crossing the center line when on group rides.


Argentius, I also had the same question as to why a new rider was teaching other new riders. Kudos for being willing to volunteer but . . . .


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## baylor (Oct 1, 2003)

Yup, that technique reminds me of what I did as a kid, not what I do now. I don't think this is a gender difference, just a style difference.


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## handsomerob (Oct 5, 2005)

Dave Hickey said:


> ditto, I'm a male who rides a lot and I never kick my leg over...I always straddle...I haven't kicked a leg over since I was a kid..


+1.... I am definitely a straddler. I wouldn't want to pivot my hips to kick over a leg when I am clipped in with only one foot. Seems like I could spin out, or at a minimum be a little unstable. . 

I am curious, do you ride mega float SpeedPlays that allow plenty of twisting?

Also, from my observations I am goofy footed as far as stopping goes. I keep my right foot clipped in and lean to the left. I like to start from a stop with my preferred leg clipped in (I am right handed and footed).


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## il sogno (Jul 15, 2002)

I've never been able to do that "man start" you described. I start with straddling the bike, clipping on to the left pedal and then pushing off with my right foot.


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## OneGear (Aug 19, 2005)

i don't think a flying leap would be the quickest way to get going from the stop light.... its probably better to just unclip one leg and lean that side.


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## JayTee (Feb 3, 2004)

lawrence said:


> Come April, I want to teach them this riding technique again as I did not emphasize it this year. Is there any reason why I shouldn't show them, have them try it, practice it, by swinging their leg over the saddle?



Is there any reason? Yes, plenty of reasons. For example, there's nothing about the technique you describe that is inherently better or more proper riding technique than merely straddling the bike when stopped, and your question assumes that the women are doing it "wrong." 

I've been leading club rides for 15 years and have never noticed this as a gender difference... I see different folks do it different ways. The two biffs I remember seeing upon starting both involved the technique you described (one was on gravel, one on ice). 

I applaud you leading D rides for your club, because most clubs always lack ride leaders for beginner rides and I think that's great. But yes, I'd leave suggestions regarding this take off technique OUT of your instruction.


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## enki42ea (Apr 11, 2005)

I think the police cyclists do some sort of moving start as part of their training and a moving stop where when they were stopping but wanted to be able to jog/walk right after getting off without losing monentum. But then they use mountain bikes and do those manuvers for other reasons that don't apply to us (chasing down other people) and on a mountain bike with platform pedals were much easier to do.

I just breifly remember it from a bike handling class I went to which was taught by the head bike cop so he basically taught what he teaches to new bike cops. (very little time was spent on it though)

I do sort of agree that it is the fastest way to get started on a bike when you are just getting on the bike, but then you also have way less control of the bike in keeping in a straight line, your hands are away from the brakes, and much more error prone in starting off. So unless you are chasing down a criminal I don't see it being an advantage.


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## OverTheRail (Jan 3, 2006)

Sheldon Brown has an excellent article on the safe way to start and stop.

http://sheldonbrown.com/starting.html


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## zeytin (May 15, 2004)

I use the push off and swing the leg over method when starting. Not from a light or anything but when I've been completely off the bike. I find the momentum helps me while I am clipping in the other foot. I have always mounted this way as it's what I was taught as a child. I just taught my nephew how to do it last summer.

P.S. I'm a female rider.


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## JayTee (Feb 3, 2004)

Interesting. If I'm understanding both the OP and Sheldon correctly, Sheldon calls the OP's method the "cowboy mount." His description would also explain why I've seen two people biff doing it when they were on slick surfaces (lateral torque):

_The Cowboy Mount is popular among cyclists who learned to ride on a bicycle that was too large for them. Indeed, this is the only way to get started on a bike that is seriously too tall for the rider. This dubious technique involves standing next to the bike, putting one foot on a pedal, then swinging the other leg over the saddle while the bicycle is in motion.
The cowboy mount places the rider's weight on the bicycle while it is leaning over at a sharp angle. This puts considerable lateral stress on the frame and the wheels. Bicycle wheels, in particular, are not designed to withstand serious sideways stresses, and this poor mounting technique is very hard on your wheels.
_

Now I'm not sure I agree with Sheldon that it is so "wrong" but I do think it is fair to point out that all approaches have their purposes, their pros, and their cons.


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## Art853 (May 30, 2003)

To start moving when both feet are on the same side of the bike with weight on one pedal and swinging the other leg around the saddle at the same time invites trouble with clipless pedals. If the cleat is not engaged you could fall. This method was easier to do on bmx bikes with flat pedals. 

I noticed sometimes new riders don't get enough forward motion when starting up and sometimes try to get onto the saddle quickly. The first pedal was placed at 6 o'clock providing no forward motion when weighted and coupled with small push off with the other leg.

I broke down the steps for a new rider as follows:

Straddle bike
Clip in right foot (or left whatever is natural) onto pedal. 
Place right pedal at about 3 o'clock position (experiment between 2 to 4 o'clock) by rotating pedals backwards if necessary
Stand on right pedal and get comfortable coasting with left foot out (straddling bike)
Practice doing this many times in a parking lot
After becoming comfortable coasting with one foot clipped in, standing on right foot, then clip in left foot, 
pedal
Sit on saddle whenever ready


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## lawrence (May 17, 2005)

I'm the poster replying.  I only use this "cowboy" technique when I'm off my bike and I'm just starting to ride. When I'm at a traffic light, I straddle the bike, sometimes straddling with both legs, sometimes with one with the other one clipped in. I also have Crank Brothers Candy C pedals which have a platform on them. If you have Speedplays, I can see you not using this technique because of the small surface area of the Speedplays. The swinging the leg over is also the way I dismount the bike.

As for my being a new rider this year, I went from barely being able to ride a couple of miles last year, I remember my first 7 mile ride was tough, to riding 73 miles as my longest ride within the first year. My last group ride was 31 miles at 18.4 mph. In my club's level ranking that's a low A- ride. My average ride now is between 35-50 miles 5-days a week. I do all my own bike maintenance including stripping down one of my wheels and rebuilding it, hubs and all new spokes. Right now I'm in the process of building a bike from a titanium frame that I've bought. My next plan is beginning in the warm weather April 1st, I plan to offer twice a week a series of rides to help move people from C- to high B level by the end of October through a training routine I have worked out including teaching ride techniques and bike handling skills. Many of the riders that I have on my rides have gone out on rides with other ride leaders and they say that I'm the best ride leader they've had and lead the most fun rides. My group is now riding at a C+ level and so I get C riders now who have been riding for several years and they say that I'm the best ride leader they have ever had. I've strongly encouraged some of my riders who have never ridden with anyone else to try other rides and they have refused. My little group of steady riders also have taken my out to lunch and dinner several times and have bought me presents in appreciation of my rides and the time I've put in. So even though I'm a fairly new rider myself, I feel I'm doing some things right.


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## JayTee (Feb 3, 2004)

okey dokey then. Don't hurt yourself patting yourself on the back. Were you looking for input at all? I don't mean to be harsh but you got some valuable advice here and posts about how often, how far, and how fast one rides/has ridden don't really get a lot of traction. I think you got some good pointers in response to your original question, which I assume was sincere, particularly as a question about gender difference. From your own description now, I think you must agree that there is no reason to teach your preferred mount and dismount method as the way it must be done, regardless of your personal preference. Good luck to you and your group.


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## SilasCL (Jun 14, 2004)

That's the resume of a fairly new rider who has applied themselves pretty well.

But a lot of people in this board have seen and done a lot more. It doesn't make you better or worse, just means they might have some ideas that you never thought of.

Lastly, when disagreeing with Sheldon Brown, you better come prepared...he is a demigod of the retro-grouch cycling world.


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## il sogno (Jul 15, 2002)

lawrence said:


> I'm the poster replying. I only use this "cowboy" technique when I'm off my bike and I'm just starting to ride. When I'm at a traffic light, I straddle the bike, sometimes straddling with both legs, sometimes with one with the other one clipped in.
> 
> ...................
> 
> My next plan is beginning in the warm weather April 1st, I plan to offer twice a week a series of rides to help move people from C- to high B level by the end of October through a training routine I have worked out including teaching ride techniques and bike handling skills. Many of the riders that I have on my rides have gone out on rides with other ride leaders and they say that I'm the best ride leader they've had and lead the most fun rides. My group is now riding at a C+ level and so I get C riders now who have been riding for several years and they say that I'm the best ride leader they have ever had. I've strongly encouraged some of my riders who have never ridden with anyone else to try other rides and they have refused. My little group of steady riders also have taken my out to lunch and dinner several times and have bought me presents in appreciation of my rides and the time I've put in. So even though I'm a fairly new rider myself, I feel I'm doing some things right.


Kudos to you Lawrence. I think you are doing a good thing there and obviously your riders do too. I wouldn't fret too much over getting everyone to do the cowboy mount. When it comes to this sort of thing sometimes the best way is the way that comes most naturally for each rider.


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## SadieKate (Feb 22, 2006)

Lawrence, it sounds like you're really providing a great deal of support for your group and that you've applied yourself hard to learning but please don't mix good ride leader skills with coaching or teaching. The ability to keep a group together or provide emotional support/encouragement is far different than coaching bike handling skills. Miles and average speed also have nothing to do with teaching or coaching knowledge. Good for you that you're quickly improving in your own fitness but I have Candy pedals and clipping in from one side to do a cowboy mount is a guaranteed wrenched knee. There's also a good shot of kicking someone or swerving into another's path. It seems there is unanimous agreement that this mount is not a good idea, but you disagree. So, why did you ask?

Yeah, beware disagreeing with Sheldon as a retro-grouch or otherwise.


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## zeytin (May 15, 2004)

I guess I better rethink my bike mounting as well. Sheldon usually has something. Can I still do it when I'm riding unclipped?


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## JayTee (Feb 3, 2004)

Nah, you are being too hard on yourself. Just as that method shouldn't be taught as the "right" way to start from a stop, I wouldn't lose any sleep about abandoning it, either. Do what comes naturally.


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## Spinfinity (Feb 3, 2004)

*I'd worry more about helping people stop and get off.*

Fwiw, I clip in and "cowboy" mount, stop and wait with my right foot on the ground, stop and get off by putting either foot down, grabbing the seat and swinging the other foot over the bars just to show off. 

On charity rides, where I'm most likely to see inexperienced riders, the big problem is not getting on the bike, it's stopping straight to wait at lights. People step to one side or the other and their bikes point every way but up and down. Standing first and then stepping slightly forward helps me keep my bike straight as well as being easier to stop without using my brake on the fixies.


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## lawrence (May 17, 2005)

Sadie Kate - When I cowboy mount I don't clip in before I mount. I put my foot on the pedal and swing my leg over and then I start clipping in so I don't have a wrenched knee.

Below is what I think I'm going to be teaching on the hills. This is for where a person stops on the hill and needs to restart or the hill is the place to start because of maybe a walking bridge we had to cross.

I'm going to show them the cowboy way of mounting and tell them it's not the most popular way of starting a bike. It's ideal for a person that is not flexible with the sideways movement of the leg because he/she can't swing their leg up over a standing bike.

The best way to re-start on a hill and a way to start from a standing start. Face the bike sideways to the road with a slight tilt up the hill, I've already told them if needed you can go down the hill and turn around to come back up, I've also told them you can back up into a driveway if available and start from the end of driveway. 

Is to straddle the bike's top tube, clip in with one foot, bring the pedal up and around near the top, get ready to go, press down on the pedal to get the forward momentum on the bike, put your foot on the other pedal and try to clip in while the bike is moving forward. If you can't clip in, start pedaling the best you can and clip in as you pedal. If it's a steep and you start losing momentum, have a bail out plan such as unclip your other foot, put your already unclipped foot down, steer into someone's driveway, turn and go down the hill, at all times being cognizant of other riders around you and cars from both directions. You must maintain control of your bike to avoid other riders. When you go across the road, be careful of other riders going up the hill if there are any.

How's this technique in the last paragraph? This is the technique that I've used when starting at the bottom of a hill. I generally use the cowboy technique only when first starting from a parking lot.or my driveway. I'm not very flexible in the side lifting of my leg and I have to tilt the bike way way over, less than 45 in order to get my leg over the bike. It's looks really funny this way and that's why I use the cowboy technique, lack of flexibility. And I have worked on it diglently for a long time with stretching and yoga. Unfortunately the tendons only stretch so far.


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## handsomerob (Oct 5, 2005)

lawrence said:


> Sadie Kate - When I cowboy mount I don't clip in before I mount. I put my foot on the pedal and swing my leg over and then I start clipping in so I don't have a wrenched knee.


Exactly what kind of pedals are you using to where you feel stable using one UNCLIPPED foot to balance on?? I got to think that the likelihood of slipping to one side or the other has to be pretty good for my LOOKs.

EDITED.... nevermind. I read the above post regarding your pedal selection. You do understand that 99% of road pedals don't have any platform, thereby not a good option to do the Cowboy Mount.


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## SilasCL (Jun 14, 2004)

lawrence said:


> Is to straddle the bike's top tube, clip in with one foot, bring the pedal up and around near the top, get ready to go, press down on the pedal to get the forward momentum on the bike, put your foot on the other pedal and try to clip in while the bike is moving forward. If you can't clip in, start pedaling the best you can and clip in as you pedal. If it's a steep and you start losing momentum, have a bail out plan such as unclip your other foot, put your already unclipped foot down, steer into someone's driveway, turn and go down the hill, at all times being cognizant of other riders around you and cars from both directions. You must maintain control of your bike to avoid other riders. When you go across the road, be careful of other riders going up the hill if there are any.
> 
> How's this technique in the last paragraph? This is the technique that I've used when starting at the bottom of a hill. I generally use the cowboy technique only when first starting from a parking lot.or my driveway. I'm not very flexible in the side lifting of my leg and I have to tilt the bike way way over, less than 45 in order to get my leg over the bike. It's looks really funny this way and that's why I use the cowboy technique, lack of flexibility. And I have worked on it diglently for a long time with stretching and yoga. Unfortunately the tendons only stretch so far.


That technique sounds perfect. Pretty much how I start my bike every time I get on it.

As a bail out, they can kind of ratchet their clipped in foot. Back-pedal from 6 o'clock to 12 and then pedal down again. Not bad on flat ground but probably won't help on a hill,

Silas


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## ckelly49 (Jul 9, 2006)

platform or no platorm, i would still be hesitant. the soles of my shoes and of most other road specific shoes i have ever come across are pretty slick.


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## il sogno (Jul 15, 2002)

handsomerob said:


> Exactly what kind of pedals are you using to where you feel stable using one UNCLIPPED foot to balance on?? I got to think that the likelihood of slipping to one side or the other has to be pretty good for my LOOKs.
> 
> EDITED.... nevermind. I read the above post regarding your pedal selection. You do understand that 99% of road pedals don't have any platform, thereby not a good option to do the Cowboy Mount.


OMG. The thought of doing the Cowboy Mount as Lawrence describes it with my Campy Pro Fits and carbon soled shoes.... Yikes!


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## theBreeze (Jan 7, 2002)

Am I the only one who thinks that if the OP doesn't get a little more humble one of his "ladies" is going to "accidently" kick him in the balls while practicing a cowboy mount.


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## JayTee (Feb 3, 2004)

I'll stick with my original opinion that you leave this little manuever out of your "teaching" repetoire.


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## Len J (Jan 28, 2004)

What an interesting thread........

I certainly got some glimpses I didn't expect.

lawrence.........your excitement about riding is to be admired, and your desire to learn equally admired, but sometimes you have to admit when you are wrong.

If you really want to help these women learn have them start with the straddle move as you described and stand on the one pedal......but only after making sure they are not about to move across the road either in front of another rider or a car. Teach them to err on the side of safety and to walk to a flatter section of road if necessary.......if one of them is a stronger rider, teach them the right way to give someone a push start.....and the right way to accept one.

The one thing you forgot in your teaching writeup was to put their bike in the easiest gear they have......even if they have to shift before they get on the bike (You'll need to teach them how.)

In no instance get them to do something as dangerous as starting on a hill until they are ready to do it. If they are interested, take them to mild inclines and start teaching them there before they get on a mountain.

Most importantly, ask them what they want to learn, share with them the things you think they need to learn and negotiate something that works for them.........there is nothing worse for a new rider than being reminded what they don't know to take the fun out of the sport.

BTW, I haven't done a horse mount on a bike with riding shoes in 25 years....but I have seen more than a few accidents caused by this.

Len

PS. Since you are a new rider....what is it that you want to learn this year?


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## lawrence (May 17, 2005)

Len J, good points

I plan to have them do the straddle and the pedal back in the parking lot where we meet. Most of them will know how to start off anyway, either pressing on the pedal or pushing off with one or two feet but I want them to press on the pedal to get a little momentum. The first week we're just going to be riding on mostly flat areas as we will just be coming off the winter. Then the following week I'll have everyone repractice the technique and we'll try it on this small hill in the park where we meet, matter of fact, in the corner of the parking lot where we meet there is an unused driveway that goes down an incline or small hill to a maintenance garage/shed. This would be a good place to practice as there are no cars as it's at the end of the parking lot and if there was, we would see them, they would see us hundres of feet n advance and the vehicle would be driving slow through the parking lot. The hill is small, there is a lot of running room prior to the bottom of the hill, it also turns 90 degrees into the garage, so it's absolutely perfect to practice on this hill.

My goals this year are to get faster. I want to average 20mph, ride more than 4,000 miles this coming year as that's what I did this past year (I do live in a snow state and this was my first year and I started off with less miles in the beginning, temperature today was 27, I didn't ride), work on drafting skills with one of my club's ride group, work on a faster cadence and keeping it over a longer period of time, work on more hills, go faster on the hills, do a Century ride in August, twice a week I plan to ride 50-60 miles and I want to increase that to 60-70 miles twice a week after a few months, lose weight (20 lbs), tighten up my abs (I'm up to 300 situps on an inclined board without weight on my chest, 50 situps with 100 lbs on my chest), work on my flexibility. I have a few other goals.


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## Len J (Jan 28, 2004)

*Good goals.........*



lawrence said:


> My goals this year are to get faster. I want to average 20mph, ride more than 4,000 miles this coming year as that's what I did this past year (I do live in a snow state and this was my first year and I started off with less miles in the beginning, temperature today was 27, I didn't ride), work on drafting skills with one of my club's ride group, work on a faster cadence and keeping it over a longer period of time, work on more hills, go faster on the hills, do a Century ride in August, twice a week I plan to ride 50-60 miles and I want to increase that to 60-70 miles twice a week after a few months, lose weight (20 lbs), tighten up my abs (I'm up to 300 situps on an inclined board without weight on my chest, 50 situps with 100 lbs on my chest), work on my flexibility. I have a few other goals.


but what do you want to learn? They are different.

Len


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## kaotikgrl (Dec 14, 2006)

.....


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## physasst (Oct 1, 2005)

*Wow*

interesting stuff......I use the so called Cowboy mount when I haven't been on the bike and am first starting out, although I clip in my left cleat and then swing the right one over, with all of the cyclocross training I've been doing, well,......I'm not really worried about biffing, although it could happen I suppose. Add in all the BMX racing and freestyle stuff I did as a teen, I think my sense of balance on a bike is pretty good....but, hey, anything can happen. Kudos to you Lawrence for wanting to teach new riders..in my area, we do not have alphabetized rides....merely a rec club and rides, and a racing club and rides. If you want a fun game to practice balance, do what we did in BMX at a standstill, turn your front tire to almost a 90 degree angle, place your feet on either side of it and attempt to stay upright using your feet...with speedplay cleats it's a real challenge, but keeps me occupied at longer stoplights. It's actually a lot of fun, but I would NEVER recommend beginners to try it. That or trackstanding, which really can be a challenge too. If I'm really bored, or with a large group, I'll simply straddle the frame....:idea:


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## baylor (Oct 1, 2003)

Len J said:


> but what do you want to learn? They are different.
> 
> Len



I'm thinking of that great line in Camelot where Guenivere says "have you done any jousting with humility lately"? to a cocky Lancelot. 

I also think it is interesting that of all the efforts women took to really share their thoughts, the only person who got a substantive response was another guy (albeit that LenJ's post was very good). Lots of good comments, questions, and wisdom from women above, too. Lawrence, were you really seeking women's input? If so, was there any reason that you ignored most of it?


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## us_wr (Feb 4, 2006)

could just be me, but i think this is a weird thread ... so many questions, and yet, so many non-answers!  

cowboy mount or not (which really has more bad qualities than good, but to each is own), why is a man "leading" women? more importantly, why are the women putting-up with this type of "leading"? I just get the feeling the "leading" is more "teaching" and the "teaching" is filled with lots of ego, some substance, and way too much right or wrong ways of doing things ... sure would be nice if an experienced woman got involved in these rides! :idea:


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## Kawboy8 (Feb 26, 2006)

Argentius said:


> No offense, but shouldn't someone who isn't a new rider this year be teaching the other newbs the skills? Otherwise, we'd have the blind leading the blind, wouldn't we?
> 
> 
> 
> Woah, wait, you are saying they start with both feet on the left side of the bike, then swing one over as the bike is in motion? NOBODY does that, as far as roadies go, except for the "flying leap" remount in cyclocross! Watch any group of experienced riders at a stoplight; if they do not trackstand then they simply unclip their right foot and set it down, either leaning the bike slightly or just sliding forward and sitting on their top tube. At the coffee shop or whatev, we all do the 'top-tube-chair' manoeuvre.


I agree....why is a new rider teaching anyone? Also...on your post, you always put your right foot down...I unclip my left for some reason. Why do you unclip the right pedal?


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## SadieKate (Feb 22, 2006)

Hey, guys. While I agree with everything you've said about the OP attitude towards the women responders, his newbiness, his adherence to knowing what is right, etc., at least he's out there trying. Until I know he's pushed away a more qualified woman coach, I'll give him credit for trying . . . and for being trying . . .


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## JayTee (Feb 3, 2004)

In fairness, I think that we've all thanked him for being out their trying, in fact most of us bending over backwards to say that before offering other thoughts subsequently ignored. But it has surely been kinda a strange thread.


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## Kawboy8 (Feb 26, 2006)

It seems weird to me that he is new to riding....but is teaching. Someone said, "blind leading the blind"...sound about right to me. Not to mention, who cares how someone mounts their bike? I would say most people unclip and put their foot down, remain straddling the bike, push off, re-clip in and begin pedaling again. The cowboy thing seems strange to me. I am sure some people do it, why would be my question.


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## zeytin (May 15, 2004)

Kawboy8 said:


> It seems weird to me that he is new to riding....but is teaching. Someone said, "blind leading the blind"...sound about right to me. Not to mention, who cares how someone mounts their bike? I would say most people unclip and put their foot down, remain straddling the bike, push off, re-clip in and begin pedaling again. The cowboy thing seems strange to me. I am sure some people do it, why would be my question.


The cowboy mount is not for unclipping and starting at a light. It's when you are getting on the bike and especially if you are in a hurry.


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## il sogno (Jul 15, 2002)

Kawboy8 said:


> I agree....why is a new rider teaching anyone? Also...on your post, you always put your right foot down...I unclip my left for some reason. Why do you unclip the right pedal?


Personally I always unclip my right foot. It's a 20+ year habit of mine. 

I first started cycling in the days of toe clips and straps and back then I would keep the right strap a little looser to be able to get out of the clip in case of an emergency stop. With the folks I rode with, you always unclipped your right foot. I think it's because the chainring is on that side and there's less of a chance of chainring tattoo. Didn't help me much on that front. :blush2:


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## il sogno (Jul 15, 2002)

lawrence said:


> The best way is to start from the right side of the road, push and start your bike at a small diagonal to the left side of the road while kicking your leg up over the saddle.


As I see it, if there is no traffic and you _must _ ride at a diagonal to get started, I think it's best actually start on the left side of the road and head to the right. This way you get the crossing of the wrong side of the road over with when you are sure there's no oncoming traffic. Really though, I don't think I would be teaching this sort of stuff to beginners.


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## California L33 (Jan 20, 2006)

JayTee said:


> Interesting. If I'm understanding both the OP and Sheldon correctly, Sheldon calls the OP's method the "cowboy mount." His description would also explain why I've seen two people biff doing it when they were on slick surfaces (lateral torque):
> 
> _The Cowboy Mount is popular among cyclists who learned to ride on a bicycle that was too large for them. Indeed, this is the only way to get started on a bike that is seriously too tall for the rider. This dubious technique involves standing next to the bike, putting one foot on a pedal, then swinging the other leg over the saddle while the bicycle is in motion.
> The cowboy mount places the rider's weight on the bicycle while it is leaning over at a sharp angle. This puts considerable lateral stress on the frame and the wheels. Bicycle wheels, in particular, are not designed to withstand serious sideways stresses, and this poor mounting technique is very hard on your wheels.
> ...


Frankly, I don't see many people using the cowboy start, men or women. It seems like a good way to end up on your butt.


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## il sogno (Jul 15, 2002)

California L33 said:


> Frankly, I don't see many people using the cowboy start, men or women. It seems like a good way to end up on your butt.


Can you imagine all the riders at the Tour de France cowboy mounting? Disastrous!


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## lancezneighbor (May 4, 2002)

*all of that just sounds weird*



lawrence said:


> I generally use the cowboy technique only when first starting from a parking lot.or my driveway. I'm not very flexible in the side lifting of my leg and I have to tilt the bike way way over, less than 45 in order to get my leg over the bike. It's looks really funny this way and that's why I use the cowboy technique, lack of flexibility. And I have worked on it diglently for a long time with stretching and yoga. Unfortunately the tendons only stretch so far.


It seems as if you are inflexible that stradling would make for an easier start. With the cowboy mount you still have to swing your leg over ( I realize your "base" foot is a bit higher) it seems more difficult to do with a flexability issue. 

I also use Crank Bros Candy pedals and I love the platform... for simple things like getting going across a busy intersection before clipping in, but the platform is too small and road shoes to slick to rely on the platform for the stability needed for the cowboy mount. 

Also do ALL the guys in your club start like that? That seems bizarre! I know a few guys who start like that once in awhile but it's mostly a style thing. Have you ever watched any level of road race? Did anyone at the road race ever start like that? ( I know there is the flying mount used in cyclocross) 

Keep helping out but don't get too stubborn about minor points and I believe starting the bike is about the most minor point.


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