# 585 fit.



## Xyzzy (Mar 22, 2004)

I have a friend, who I hope will post here, who rides this bike in a 53:

http://gianni.bianchiusa.com/2003/site/bikes/39_Carbon_Chorus.html

(Scroll down for geometry chart.)

Where should I point her for a 585?

Right now I think what she has fits fine, but she has a 9cm stem and I'd like to see her maintain the same stretch with maybe a 110.

She rides pretty aggressively and has decent flexibility.

I can provide other details that are needed. As I said, I hope to get her in her to post herself.

Thanks!

_Edit: As is now, she is nearly perfectly positioned, and comfortable, on that 53. It might be a tad too big, but only a little, and that is by my eye, which tends to put people on smaller frames._


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## Xyzzy (Mar 22, 2004)

From Competitive Cyclist:

Measurements
-------------------------------------------
Inseam: 31
Trunk: 23.25
Forearm: 13
Arm: 24.5
Thigh: 22.75
Lower Leg: 21
Sternal Notch: 53
Total Body Height: 65


The Competitive Fit (cm)
-------------------------------------------
Seat tube range c-c: 51.0 - 51.5
Seat tube range c-t: 52.6 - 53.1
Top tube length: 52.8 - 53.2
Stem Length: 10.2 - 10.8
BB-Saddle Position: 70.9 - 72.9
Saddle-Handlebar: 49.6 - 50.2
Saddle Setback: 3.0 - 3.4
Seatpost Type: NON-SETBACK


The Eddy Fit (cm)
-------------------------------------------
Seat tube range c-c: 52.2 - 52.7
Seat tube range c-t: 53.8 - 54.3
Top tube length: 52.8 - 53.2
Stem Length: 9.1 - 9.7
BB-Saddle Position: 70.1 - 72.1
Saddle-Handlebar: 50.4 - 51.0
Saddle Setback: 4.2 - 4.6
Seatpost Type: NON-SETBACK


The French Fit (cm)
-------------------------------------------
Seat tube range c-c: 53.9 - 54.4
Seat tube range c-t: 55.5 - 56.0
Top tube length: 54.0 - 54.4
Stem Length: 9.3 - 9.9
BB-Saddle Position: 68.4 - 70.4
Saddle-Handlebar: 52.1 - 52.7
Saddle Setback: 3.7 - 4.1
Seatpost Type: SETBACK



Why does she get a new 585 and I don't get a 595 Ultra?


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## terry b (Jan 29, 2004)

The small 585 is darn close.


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## lookin2ride (Mar 10, 2007)

*i am the friend wanting the 585*

Thanks for posting this xyzzy. I am looking for a frame that will give me years of satisfaction. If anyone is familiar with the Bianchi in the pic and, can compare the ride quality of the 585 and the Bianchi, I woiuld love to hear the comments. I am unable to test ride the look because there are no dealers close to where I live so if I purchase this frame it will be on nothing but my gut feeling. Three grand is a chunk of change to throw down so I really, really want to be sure of this frame. My riding habits usually consist of 50 mile rides with a century here and there just for poops and giggles. My hands end up all over the bars but mainly on the hoods. I like to average about 18-19 on my group rides but also enjoy some 16 mph social rides with some special friends. Not the best climber, make it to the top but whine and cry, I do ok on the hills. Looking for a frame that will slice through the wind, rocket on the descents. I want to feel like Aladdin and the 585 is my magic carpet. All of my research points me in the direction of the small size frame and it sounds as if the 585 would be hard to beat. What are your suggestions as far as stem size and what stem and bar does anyone suggest. If I am going to pony up the big bucks I want a high performance ohh ahhh bike.


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## Xyzzy (Mar 22, 2004)

And who would be the best Internet dealer to work with. She doesn't want something that has been hanging on a shop wall being fingered by every customer that walks in the door. Ideally, they would just send a box. We can do the build-up no problem.

About the stem length. I like a bit of weight on the front wheel. I think too many people use stems that are too short, jacked up at crazy angles with 2 inches of spacers that basically render them 1-3cm stems. I have my friend here on a pretty level stem with minimal spacers. I'm not sure what her drop, bar to seat distance, setback or bb spindle to seat top distance is. Hopefully she will post some measurements. (Hint!)

Does Look have a crash replacement policy, like a discount towards a replacement frame?


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## lookin2ride (Mar 10, 2007)

*got the hint*

my current stem is ITM Millennium with 90 mm and 80 degree. It has 1 1/8th inch spacers. Note these values are in inches...BB- saddle position= 25.5". Saddle to handlebar = 17.5". Saddle setback = 1/8".


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## terry b (Jan 29, 2004)

Call wrenchscience and ask for Avi. He walked me through my recent 595 purchase and did a great job.


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## Xyzzy (Mar 22, 2004)

> Saddle setback = 1/8".


Drop a plumb line from the nose of the saddle. At the point the plumb line is perpendicular to the BB spindle, measure the distance from the plumb line to the center of BB spindle. That is your setback.

Has anyone else had a good dealing with Wrench Science?

(I see they have the 565 for $2299!)


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## lookin2ride (Mar 10, 2007)

*plumb line*

as stated earlier the distance is less than 1/8th of an inch, or about .3175 not much, if any setback


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## Xyzzy (Mar 22, 2004)

That sure isn't much. Good thing you aren't entering any UCI events:


> *1.3.013* The peak of the saddle shall be a minimum of 5 cm to the rear of a vertical plane passing through the bottom bracket spindle.


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## C-40 (Feb 4, 2004)

*some thoughts...*

Your current bike is probably too large. Do you have an accurate saddle height? If it's around 70cm, then the size S is still on the large side, but perhaps OK. The reach on this frame is not any less than the Bianchi, so you'd still need a short 90mm stem.

What you need to post is the actual length of the head tube with the headset and spacers, or a handlebar height, measured vertically, from the floor to the top of the bars. Then it's easy to figure a stem angle and spacer combination to duplicate the required height.

I would say that the size XS, is probably more appropriate, since it has 10mm less reach, but the head tube length may be too short. 

I question why the saddle is placed so far forward? If it's to reduce your reach to the bars, that's the wrong approach. It seems like you would have a huge amount of knee to arm overlap when riding in the hook section of the handlebars, but perhaps you seldom use that position. Your saddle tip to center of bars dimension of only about 45cm in more than 7cm shorter than what I use on a size S (51cm) LOOK 585.


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## lookin2ride (Mar 10, 2007)

*small or xsmall 585*

thanks for the help c-40. here are some better measurements after i moved the saddle to the proper position for me.
BB to saddle position 66.04 cm
Saddle to handlebar 47.625cm measured from nose to near edge of bar
Saddle setback 3.175 cm
Floor to handlebar top 85.725 cm
Headtube w/ spacers, set 15.5 cm (right in the middle of the sm and xsm)
Floor to saddle top 90.7 cm

I hear you (c-40), are the master at this so any suggestions are greatly valued and appreciated.


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## C-40 (Feb 4, 2004)

*more info...*

The saddle tip to center of bars should be about 49cm, which is only about 3.5 less than I have with a 110mm stem. That's reasonable.

Your saddle height of only 66cm, is 7cm less than mine, so there's no question that even the 49cm (XS) size is plenty large. 

You can get an 86cm handlebar height easily with the 49cm frame. The HT is 105mm in length, plus a 15mm headset top section. Add 15mm of spacer for a total of 135mm. Then use a 100mm x 84 degree stem like the Richey 4-axis or WCS. That should give you the same reach as your current frame with a 90mm stem and the 86cm height. To be safe, leave 10mm of steering tube and spacer above the stem for awhile until you decide that you've got the handlebar height you want.


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## Woolbury (Oct 12, 2005)

terry b said:


> Call wrenchscience and ask for Avi. He walked me through my recent 595 purchase and did a great job.


I don't want to start a wrenchscience spam, but I bought my 585 through Avi also. I loved the process, they spent as much time as you need to get exactly what you want. Price was great, fit perfect. Even though I never had a chance to test ride this bike, I'm totally happy with the result. I love the ride, can't say enough good things about the 585.


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## lookin2ride (Mar 10, 2007)

*wrench science*

i talked with Avi at wrench science about the Looks and he was great. Easy to work with, very patient, friendly. It is kinda scary dropping that amount of cash without test riding to assure a proper fit. Never doubted the quality of the frame but was unsure of the size. Thanks to the help from you guys I have it figured out. I will deal with Avi again to finalize the purchase, he offered me a pretty good deal, no complaints.


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## Woolbury (Oct 12, 2005)

Yeah, I thought it was a bit scary to do a purchase of this size on line also. But as I reflected on the previous bikes I bought from shops, I realized the shortcomings of that route also. I spent 6-8 weeks last winter playing with the wrenchscience build-up. Every time I had a question about a part, I reviewed it here, bugged Avi and really had time to deal with the detail. I don't think I could have invested near as much time dealing with a shop. He let me upgrade some parts, others he talked me out of - I landed up with alloy seatpost, stem and bars for example. I used their fit program, then went back to my current bike(which I was very comfortable on, and now feels like a pile of plumbers pipe in comparison) and measured all the dimensions for comparison. It helped me increase their stem recommendation and handle bar size-only changes I made to their specs. They ship with recommended seat post height and bar tilt marked. Very detailed. Hope yours works out as well as mine.


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## chas (Aug 10, 2006)

lookin2ride said:


> i talked with Avi at wrench science about the Looks and he was great. Easy to work with, very patient, friendly. It is kinda scary dropping that amount of cash without test riding to assure a proper fit. Never doubted the quality of the frame but was unsure of the size. Thanks to the help from you guys I have it figured out. I will deal with Avi again to finalize the purchase, he offered me a pretty good deal, no complaints.


It's great to read these comments about Avi and WS...Avi is THE DUDE! 

*[email protected]*


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## nealrab (Aug 6, 2002)

*Sorry about the Avi/WS chiming*

As you can see I don't post much, but I read a lot...Many great things about Chas at Look...Hope I never HAVE to talk to you Chas, but it's comforting to know you're THERE. Got my 585 2 yrs ago from Avi. He basically talked me out of my dream bike (or so I thought)--the 486. I love the 585 he worked with me to build. Painless process, great suggestions and even let me have my way when I insisted on a Kestrel bar and the Ergostem for flexibility in positioning. Set up is tremendous. So go ahead, don't worry, be happy, Avi will take care of you and so will Chas!!!


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## Xyzzy (Mar 22, 2004)

Her 585 came in today. I haven't gotten around to building it up yet. I was able to convert her from Shimano to Campy, which was nice. One rider at a time and eventually we'll own the world. Or something. She's going full Record.

It weighed in at 950g and the fork was 300g. The included seat post is 190g. The frame weight is without headset, bottle cage bolts or seat collar.

I'm pretty impressed with the overall structural rigidity and quality of the frame. I think they need to let the guy who does the decals take some time off, because there sure are a lot of them. The lugs have a very strong feel to them. I have no doubts that this frame will last a long time.

I'd buy one. With my own money. Well, it would be a 595 Ultra, but you get the idea.

My calculated weight for her build puts her at 14.8 pounds without getting scary with the parts.


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## lookin2ride (Mar 10, 2007)

*585 is here*

when i ordered the frame i was asked if i was running shimano or campy. i responded shimano since that was what i was running but decided to switch to campy..something about the black carbon campy against the black carbon frame..well you know. anyway the rep said he would get the frame shimano ready; what does this mean? How, what, if any bearing will this have on running campy? Also what are the opinions of using a master link on the chain? Man oh man, can't wait to ride it!!!!


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## spookyload (Jan 30, 2004)

I can't possibly imagine what the differences would be in frame prep. Maybe they use Campy tools to chase the BB threads before sending it.


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## Xyzzy (Mar 22, 2004)

> when i ordered the frame i was asked if i was running shimano or campy. i responded shimano since that was what i was running but decided to switch to campy..something about the black carbon campy against the black carbon frame..well you know. anyway the rep said he would get the frame shimano ready; what does this mean? How, what, if any bearing will this have on running campy?


My guess is the interchangeable cups in the head tube. Usually people run 36° with Shimano and 45° with a Campy Hiddenset. See pic.


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## Xyzzy (Mar 22, 2004)

Just a quick question:

The HSC5 manual says to not use a split ring collar on the bottom of the steerer column. It says to just put the lower bearing on first and then assemble as usual.

I just want to make sure this is how you all are doing it, because it freaks me out a bit. The bearing is flat (the angular part, of course, fits into the removable cups) so it just sits there at the bottom of the fork like it wasn't meant to be that way. (The 585 manual mentions a split ring collar, BTW.)

Also, after assembling the entire fork (not the compression plug, just the 2 cups, the 2 bearings, the split ring thingie on the top, the thin metal spacer and the o-ring/cone carbon spacer, I have 1 piece left over. Does anyone knows where it goes?


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## hairscrambled (Nov 18, 2004)

Xyzzy said:


> Just a quick question:
> 
> I have 1 piece left over. Does anyone knows where it goes?


It looks like a crown race. You already have one molded into the fork. I suspect it came with the headset to be used on forks from other manufacturers.


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## wuggabugga (Oct 3, 2005)

Agreed,

You don't use the race.


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## rensho (Aug 5, 2003)

What size did you end up with? I'm with C40, the xs is the better size. I run a S 585, and those ETT are long. I'm 2" taller, with essentially the same inseam, so that means my torso is longer. My S 585 is just right, or even 0.5cm too long on the ETT for me. My saddle height is 70.5cm


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## lookin2ride (Mar 10, 2007)

*585 frame size*

i went ahead and got the xs size, it is in the building stage now. hopefully xyzzy will send some pics


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## Xyzzy (Mar 22, 2004)

> hopefully xyzzy will send some pics


When it is done, of course.

C40: I have some pics of Nancy on her bike in what I consider to be various (clothed) poses that illustrate key points of the pedalling cycle. Can you PM me yourreal email address so I can send them to you for analysis?

I have:

On top of bars, on drops, elbow/knee overlap on drops, knee to spindle relationship, seat height/knee angle and probably a few others.


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## Xyzzy (Mar 22, 2004)

No pics yet. Maybe Nancy will post some. Bike ended up around 14.8lb without to many scary light parts. Overall I am very impressed with the quality of the frame. The only issue I had with it is the lug on the bottom bracket/seat tube junction juts up far enough to prevent the use of a deda dog fang with a compact crank. It might be usable with a 39.

I guess, in the end, my endorsement is I'd buy one without hesitation. I don't say things like that lightly. (Well, it would be an Ultra, since I am a lot bigger.)


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