# Increasing FTP



## Gall (Feb 6, 2004)

Hello,

I am trying to increase my hour FTP from about +/- 230 to about 250. I weigh about 135-140#. 

Since I want to ride at 250 should I be trying to do my long intervals (12-20 mins) at about 250 or should I be doing short (3-10 mins) intervals at 250? 

I know that in order to ride at 250 I have to ride at 250. I just dont know the best way to get there; long or short. 

Thanks!
Gall


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## Guest (Aug 17, 2008)

As a suggestion, go with 20+ minute intervals at your current FTP or a bit above that, and maybe once a week due shorter 3-5 minute intervals at around 250 to about 280.


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## STARNUT (Jun 19, 2005)

Since you have a PM this should be fairly straight forward. 

So your FTP is 230? If thats the case, your 20 min is ~235/240 watts. I assume you "know" your FTP is 230 because you used one of the "7 deadly sins" to figure it out? How sure are you it's actually 230 and how did you arrive at that number?


Assuming it's actually 230...........................



Doing 2x20s at your 20 min power a few times a week will net you some pretty large gains. You need to make sure your IF on each of the intervals is ~.90-.98ish.

_IF_ you have a fairly good CTL at this point in the season you can see some pretty good gains in FTP by subing 1x10s or 2x5s for the 2x20. The upshot is you can work on your V02 power as well. If your lacking a bit in the CTL area at this point in the season you may want not do those as they are potient stuff and will serve to only inflate your TSS and ATL score. Are you trying to become a better climber or what? Why 250? Why not 265? Is there something your not telling us like you want to be a better TTer, climber, etc. Or that your already a good climber (not a stretch at 135-140 pounds) and would like to become a better sprinter................... or whats going on here?

Your only talking a small % jump to 250 and at your weight an it would out you at around 4.0 w/kg or just under depending on the day.

Starnut


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## TurboTurtle (Feb 4, 2004)

STARNUT said:


> Since you have a PM this should be fairly straight forward.
> 
> So your FTP is 230? If thats the case, your 20 min is ~235/240 watts. I assume you "know" your FTP is 230 because you used one of the "7 deadly sins" to figure it out? How sure are you it's actually 230 and how did you arrive at that number?
> 
> ...


"Doing 2x20s at your 20 min power a few times a week will net you some pretty large gains. You need to make sure your IF on each of the intervals is ~.90-.98ish."

The IF is going to be >1 if doing 20 min power. - TF


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## jgrantv10 (Nov 17, 2005)

Query:

A friend who attended Hunter Allen's camp said that he had been encouraged to ride a lot of sub-threshold intervals (2X20) - the hypothesis being that you get nearly the same benefit as far as stress and adaptations, but that you recover much faster so you can put in more quality miles, sooner. 

TT and Starnut, have you experimented at all with sub-threshold intervals? Any opinion?


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## STARNUT (Jun 19, 2005)

@TT 

I know........

Typically with terrain, wind, and any number of other factors its pretty easy to pace slightly below the actual target. Further, it's also easy to overshoot it by a lot and not be able to finish the 2nd 20. I don't look at an over all IF number on training rides, but do for races.

In a perfect world shooting for those numbers give you a NP in the range you are looking for. Moreover, depending on the individual the difference in FTP and 20min is usually 3-5% and well with in the margin of "human error" on any given interval. Thus the reason he needs TWO in the , .95+ range. If your able to do two a 2x20 @ 1.05 each, your FTP is set to low and your over estimating your CTL, ATL, and thus TSB. Further, I've found a slow degrade of L5/L6 numbers with rides doing a 1.05 2x20s ................... V02 power suffers because your absolute top end FTP is set to low. Which also causes an under-estimation in L5/L6 intervals. When these guys come to me and say that V02 intervals are easy.................. its time to test. When they can rip out two 1.05 with a relatively low TSB.................. its time to retest and reset. They generally come hand in hand.

I've found, persoanlly, and with the guys I coach, that if I tell them to shoot a little low on the first 1/2 of the first 20 we get the most kj done in 40min. As opposed to trying to hit the 1.05 on the head and suffering the last 1/4 of the 2nd 20 and ending up doing a 20 and a 15 and not maxing out the kj burn.

I was kinda' getting at that orginally. The .95 to 1.05 sweet spot is a bit nebulious and I find that taking 2 20s in a 60min period will give you 20 of fluff and thus bring the over all IF score down. Targeting each interval with its own IF and TSS and KJ burn tends to yeild the best results. At least thats what I've found to be the case.


@jgrantv10
The sub-threshold intervals thing is what both TT and I are/were getting at (I think, TT don't let me put words in your mouth). The SubT workout thing has been thrown around a lot lately but I think its been used incorrectly or misunderstood. Because of the close connection of 20min pwr and FTP on the MMP curve............... they are advocating do 2x20s in place of a 1x60 to decrease the over all TSS and, as you mentioned, be able to recover quicker. Because the 20min and FTP are noramally within 3-5% of one another you can ellicit the same training response from 2x20s as a 1x60 with out the excess fatigue and jump in ATL. you still have to ride fast to ride fast :lol:

Starnut


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## TurboTurtle (Feb 4, 2004)

jgrantv10 said:


> Query:
> 
> A friend who attended Hunter Allen's camp said that he had been encouraged to ride a lot of sub-threshold intervals (2X20) - the hypothesis being that you get nearly the same benefit as far as stress and adaptations, but that you recover much faster so you can put in more quality miles, sooner.
> 
> TT and Starnut, have you experimented at all with sub-threshold intervals? Any opinion?


Search for Sweet Spot Training here and especially in http://groups.google.com/group/wattage

TF


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## jgrantv10 (Nov 17, 2005)

Excellent. Thanks.


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## gonzaleziam (May 14, 2007)

Starnut

Tried sending you a response to the PMs but your storage is full.

MG


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## STARNUT (Jun 19, 2005)

woops.........

Gotta' delete some of that stuff. I responded to your PM.

Starnut


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