# Centaur 11 speed



## C-40 (Feb 4, 2004)

I meant to post this info here, but it's duplicated in the components and wrenching forum.

I converted a Centaur 10 speed ultrashift ergo lever to 11 speed using parts from a wreck-damaged Record 11 shifter. Only the index disc and front ratchet needed to be changed, but that requires complete disassembly. 

I didn’t have much trouble with the parts swap, but I did find the Centaur shifters do not have ball bearings on the main pivot shaft, as I had previously found when I disassembled a very early model. The Centaur model uses a plastic bushing with a hex shaped OD. The bushing is split into halves and surrounds a reduced diameter at the center of the pivot shaft. The pivot shaft with the bushing just slips into a hex shaped hole in the ergo body, from the back side. Current Campy spare parts PDF drawings do not show this, so they are incorrect.

I mounted the lever back on my bike, but made the mistake of trying to reuse the old shift cable and housing. I don’t know whether the cable or housing was to blame, but I had immediate cable friction problems that were so bad it made the finger lever hard to push. I’ve wanted to try some Shimano 4mm cable housing as a substitute for Campy’s ultra low friction housing, so this was the perfect opportunity. The new (Campy) cable and housing cured the problem and the lever now feels about the same as my other bikes with Record shifters. I got the shifting dialed in a just a few minutes.

I also used a 10 speed RD with my modified cable clamp bolt to increase the actuation ratio slightly, so it works great with 11 speed. 

I just looked at the current spare parts PDF and found that the index disc and front ratchet are no longer listed as individual replacement parts. The back side internals are now sold as one group EC-CE110. See page 38 of the PDF below.

http://www.campagnolo.com/repositor...09-A-230309.pdf


----------



## mriddle (Nov 16, 2005)

*Good to know.*

So there a different versions of the 2009 Centaur levers?

I want to convert a pair of the 09 Centaur alloy levers to 11 speed for an older De Rosa I am building up w/new Athena. I don't want carbon levers. My other two bikes have 11 speed and I would prefer to keep all of them same for obvious reasons. 

I purchased one of the two parts needed (EC-SR013) but can't find the other (EC-SR062) anywhere at the moment. If I can't find the EC-SR062 I will just buy a pair of Athena levers from Ribble. Would I be better off just changing out the carbon brake and shift levers w/the alloy versions or changing the two parts mentioned above?

I think the EC-RE100 has everything needed to convert a right side ultra shift from 10 to 11.

Also, are the internals of the Athena the same as Chorus and higher?

Thanks for the information.


----------



## jpdigital (Dec 1, 2006)

What is lost in using the plastic bushings, as opposed to using the ball bearings? Would it make sense/is it feasible to replace the bushing for a bearing when converting everything else, and how does that play into reducing the friction of the system as a whole? I'm considering converting my Centaur Ultra Shift levers to 11-speed. 

FWIW, I think I have a pretty early-production run of the Centaur Ultra Shifts, and I'm still having issues w/ friction in the setup, after having replaced the RD, and ALL cables.


----------



## C-40 (Feb 4, 2004)

*reply...*

The EC-RE100 is almost a whole new lever and probably costs more than half what a whole new pair does. I would be surprised if it's cost effective.


----------



## C-40 (Feb 4, 2004)

*reply...*

Converting Centaur levers to 11 speed is not going to be practical if you have to buy part EC-RE100 to do it. I'm sure it would be better to sell your old levers and buy whatever 11 speed model you want. I only did it because I had the parts from a wreck-damaged lever. I broke the ergo body and there is no replacement part for it.

The bushing cannot be replaced with bearings, since the bore in the ergo body is entirely different to accomodate the bearings (round hole with a shoulder in the middle, not a hex shaped through-hole).

You might try Shimano housings on the right side to see if it helps the friction problem. Apparently, reusing a old cable is a bad idea. My old housings has less than 1,000 miles on them, so I doubt they were the cause of my severe friction since the bike was shifting OK before I removed the cable.

It might not hurt to take the back half of the lever apart and give everything a light coat of grease. I've found little or no grease in the levers I've disassembled.


----------



## Marcos_E (Dec 16, 2007)

C-40 said:


> I’ve wanted to try some Shimano 4mm cable housing as a substitute for Campy’s ultra low friction housing, so this was the perfect opportunity. The new cable and housing cured the problem and the lever now feels about the same as my other bikes with Record shifters. I got the shifting dialed in a just a few minutes.



What cable did you use in conjunction with that housing?


----------



## C-40 (Feb 4, 2004)

*Campy...*

I always use genuine Campy cables. I bought a bunch from Ribble for about $4 each.


----------



## wankski (Jul 24, 2005)

hmm, thats a downer... bushings instead of bearings now... if the campy literature is correct, that means u have to move up to record for bearings...

$40USD more than chorus ... worth it?

can u order in a replacement bushing? plastic... lovely!


----------



## C-40 (Feb 4, 2004)

*???*



wankski said:


> hmm, thats a downer... bushings instead of bearings now... if the campy literature is correct, that means u have to move up to record for bearings...
> 
> $40USD more than chorus ... worth it?
> 
> can u order in a replacement bushing? plastic... lovely!


I've not read any Campy literature that says the bearings start with Record, although that is what was done in 2008. I looked just a few days ago and the website mentions ball bearings for all ergo levers. Of course this is incorrect, just like their spare parts PDF. Others report that they have never seen a case of a worn out bushing, but at present, it is not sold separately. Campy has changed their spare parts offerings, so very few parts are now sold separately.

http://www.campagnolo.com/jsp/en/groupsetdetail/item_ergopowerCH_catid_3.jsp


----------



## wankski (Jul 24, 2005)

sorry, it says it on ribble's site under the description of each lever.... Do you know if an athena 11sp FD would work on a 10sp centaur/chorus set up?? i think the cage maybe smaller, but i'm hoping if i don't cross-chain it should be right?

i plan to upgrade to 11sp down the track - i got a new frame that needs a bigger clamp FD, so i just got the athena so i didn't waste money on something I might use for a month or 2...


----------



## C-40 (Feb 4, 2004)

*thoughts...*

I'm sure the FD would work, but it might require more frequent trimming with the wider chain and narrow FD cage.


----------



## ericjacobsen3 (Apr 27, 2007)

*11sp Fder W/ 10 Spd*

I have had Chorus 11 spd for a couple wks. The 11 spd fder is so narrow that 1 click is almost too much movement to use for trim. In my opinion the 11spd derailleur is too narrow for even the 11sp chain. I have been thinking of putting my 10spd fder back on to allow more space for no rub. So I would say buy a 10 spd cheap and hope to use w/ 11 later. 

I would guess no one would be able to avoid fder rub with a flexy steel frame and 11 speed -probably not so common at least.


----------



## wankski (Jul 24, 2005)

thanks mate... but the new shifters have 5 clicks or summit for the FD... i think that is a fault with the new design, or at least a limitation...

I'm running 05 chorus however, with its 9 clicks, so i should be right... I hope it works fine as I may not make the leap to 11 at all... Failing that, i may try to swap the cages as i think you can disassemble the FD...

will report my experience for those interested.


----------



## wankski (Jul 24, 2005)

last question - apart from 20g, is there any point to getting a chorus 11 rear derailleur compared to athena? any performance diff at all? i did see one chorus 11 cracked at the carbon faceplate...

def getting chorus 11 shifters, but the price diff b/w the rear derailleurs is double!


----------



## C-40 (Feb 4, 2004)

*more...*



wankski said:


> last question - apart from 20g, is there any point to getting a chorus 11 rear derailleur compared to athena? any performance diff at all? i did see one chorus 11 cracked at the carbon faceplate...
> 
> def getting chorus 11 shifters, but the price diff b/w the rear derailleurs is double!


I would suspect no performance difference between Athena and Chorus, it's just looks and weight.

As for the FD and shifters, the new shifters have 6 clicks from the left finger lever that have enough travel to shift a triple FD. The old shifters should have 12 clicks, but 5 of them are worthless. The maximum ever needed is 7 to operate a triple and 4 to operate a double FD. There's no benefit to the old design. For some reason there are just a lot of never used clicks available.


----------



## mriddle (Nov 16, 2005)

*Something is wrong*

The 11 speed front derailluer, when properly installed, with appropriate tension should have no issue with chain rub. I rarely need 1 click of trim on some outer ends of the cassette. Make sure you have the cable secured/routed properly at the front derailluer. It requires a bit different securing method at the cable tab near the bolt. You can do a search on this forum and find some pictures. It makes a huge difference. 

QUOTE: "The 11 spd fder is so narrow that 1 click is almost too much movement to use for trim. In my opinion the 11spd derailleur is too narrow for even the 11sp chain. I have been thinking of putting my 10spd fder back on to allow more space for no rub. So I would say buy a 10 spd cheap and hope to use w/ 11 later. 

I would guess no one would be able to avoid fder rub with a flexy steel frame and 11 speed -probably not so common at least.[/QUOTE]"


----------



## C-40 (Feb 4, 2004)

*wrong...*

There is nothing about the cage width that is causing the problem that you describe. It is entirely a matter of not having the proper balance between the limit screw and the cable tension. A wider cage would not fix that problem. If you set the limit screw to produce adequate clearance with the right side of the chain in the big ring and smallest cog and one click of the thumb button causes too much movement to the the left, the cable tension is too high and/or the limit screw needs to be backed out just a bit more. I've two bikes with the 11s FD and have no problems with either one. I've also got one using an '08 Chorus QS FD.

There is also the chance of improper cable routing, but this really fouls up the operation of the FD. 

http://forums.roadbikereview.com/showthread.php?t=171968


----------



## mriddle (Nov 16, 2005)

*It was $90*

I was able to get an EC-RE100 (Right side 11 speed chorus/record shift body) for $90 and converted my 2009 Centaur alloy 10 spd lever to 11. 

I never used the Centaur levers, I wanted to have alloy rather than carbon on a bike I am building w/new Athena. The shift body that I purchased had a much heavier click feel than the Centaur 10 speed lever.

My only other option was to buy a pair of Athena levers from Ribble for about $180 and change them over. I think it is now impossible to obtain just the 2 individual parts to convert a 10 to 11. That would have been only about $25...



C-40 said:


> The EC-RE100 is almost a whole new lever and probably costs more than half what a whole new pair does. I would be surprised if it's cost effective.


----------



## C-40 (Feb 4, 2004)

*where?*

$90 sounds like a good price. Much less than I would expect, since a brake lever usually costs more than that. Where did you get the part?

I have a Record 11 right shifter that needs this whole asembly to restore it from wreck damage. I


----------



## mriddle (Nov 16, 2005)

*bikesonline.com*

I think it was $96.

I searched google for "ec-re100", a few other places had it for slightly more $. 

It does not include the brake lever, mounting clamp or rubber hood. It does include the shift lever.



C-40 said:


> $90 sounds like a good price. Much less than I would expect, since a brake lever usually costs more than that. Where did you get the part?
> 
> I have a Record 11 right shifter that needs this whole asembly to restore it from wreck damage. I


----------



## ericjacobsen3 (Apr 27, 2007)

I admit I can do a bit more fine tuning of my fder click position. Right now, to avoid falling out of the rightmost fder click I need about 1/4mm of crank rub which of course I don't want and can avoid by slipping the cable minutely. However, the cable already rubs 1 click lower in almost all cogs. This effectively means to me that Campy no longer allows fine tuning using all the front clicks that had seemed closer spaced before. Bye bye to one of the few campy shifting plusses, as far as I can see.

Anyone successfully using more than 1 click position for their 11sp fder when in the big ring (to cover full cassette)? If not, we are all getting indexed shifting shoved down our throats again.


----------



## wankski (Jul 24, 2005)

i'll let u know in a week mate.. ended up capitulating to vanity: chorus 11 on the way. I used to be pretty decent at setting up 10sp, we'll see how 11 goes.


----------



## C-40 (Feb 4, 2004)

*wrong again...*

My 11 speed FDs don't even require a trim click of the thumb button until I get to the last 2-3 cogs. Just one click is all that is needed to allow the use the big/big without rub, but of course you should not be using the big/big anyway. The '09 FD requires the same 4 clicks to cover the full range of travel as previous QS FDs. Before QS ('06 and earlier), double FDs only required 3 clicks to operate and there was only 1 click that could be used for trimming, since the second would shift the chain to the little ring. That's still the case today. There is absolutely no loss of function with the 11 speed FD.


----------

