# Greg calls out Fat Pat



## Doctor Falsetti (Sep 24, 2010)

Thank you Greg



> Can anyone help me out? I know this sounds kind of lame but I am not well versed in social marketing. I would like to send a message to everyone that really loves cycling. I do not use twitter and do not have an organized way of getting some of my own “rage” out. I want to tell the world of cycling to please join me in telling Pat McQuaid to f##k off and resign. I have never seen such an abuse of power in cycling’s history- resign Pat if you love cycling. Resign even if you hate the sport.
> 
> Pat McQuaid, you know dam well what has been going on in cycling, and if you want to deny it, then even more reasons why those who love cycling need to demand that you resign.
> 
> ...


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## Creakyknees (Sep 21, 2003)

saw that on fb just now... are we sure that's really Greg Lemond posting?


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## mpre53 (Oct 25, 2011)

Creakyknees said:


> saw that on fb just now... are we sure that's really Greg Lemond posting?


He has both a fan page and a personal page. That was on his fan page. He seems to respond to some of his old overseas friends on his fan page.

Here's why I believe it's him, and that he really isn't versed in social networking. It's reposted about 10 times---it's all over his timeline. :lol:


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## slegros (Sep 22, 2009)

Greg is more charitable to the UCI than I am! LOL! I say fire everyone, trash everything in all the offices, repaint and start fresh. Install former WADA president Dick Pound as new UCI boss?


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## icemonkey (Sep 6, 2010)

Well said, Im going to donate.


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## Local Hero (Jul 8, 2010)

> Don’t buy a USA Cycling license. Give up racing for a year, just long enough to put the UCI and USA cycling out of business. We can then start from scratch and let the real lovers in cycling direct where and how the sport of cycling will go.


LOL

Get real. I just sponsor my racing team -- of course I'm going to buy a license this year, Greg.


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## kbwh (May 28, 2010)

Thanks, Greg.


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## MG537 (Jul 25, 2006)

*and on the other hand*

we have Eddy Merckx making statements such as this
_"I'm angry at the riders for speaking to investigators," Merckx said on Le Soir._

or this
_I met Lance many times, he never told me about doping, physicians or other things._

Wasn't it Eddy that intrduced Lance to Ferrari?

Here is the the full article for your reading pleasure: http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/merckx-fell-into-the-trap-of-armstrong


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## Fireform (Dec 15, 2005)

Disappointing attitude from the Cannibal.


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## Salsa_Lover (Jul 6, 2008)

MG537 said:


> we have Eddy Merckx making statements such as this
> _"I'm angry at the riders for speaking to investigators," Merckx said on Le Soir._
> 
> or this
> ...


Old dopers are simply fearful and pre-emtping that the same would happen to them.


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## Tomahawk (May 4, 2012)

Greg should put his hand up and become UCI President  (unlikely). He was right all along and his principles have remained steadfast, looking back at history he might have been the last clean winner of the tour.


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## woodys737 (Dec 31, 2005)

Awesome Greg! Thanks!


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## mohair_chair (Oct 3, 2002)

Tomahawk said:


> Greg should put his hand up and become UCI President  (unlikely).


That's actually a great idea. Everyone wants to get rid of Pat, but who would replace him? It could be more of the same. Step up, Greg.


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## Doctor Falsetti (Sep 24, 2010)

Gilbert Ysern or Patrice Clerc would be excellent choices to replace Pat. Unfortunately I doubt either would leave their current positions. 

Pat would not be so bad if he was not controlled by Verburggen.


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## LostViking (Jul 18, 2008)

Good idea Greg - I hope it catches on and starts a firestorm that kicks the old guard out of the UCI.
You hit the nail directly on the head by putting the spotlight on Hein and Pat - if any real change is going to occur, those two clowns have got to go.

Don't know if Greg is Board material, but he certainly can't do worse than what is in there.
There have also been a few others that have spoken out against the UCIs lax anti-doping efforts - let's get them on the Board as well. Tagart of USADA should get Hein's "honorary" position and actually bring some honor to it!


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## mmoose (Apr 2, 2004)

Well done. Big. Brass. Ones.

I'd rather GL stand for reform and not be seen as a ploy for personal power in the UCI.

(And sure hope that GL has the data to exonerate Paul and b!tch slap the lawsuit the way it needs.)

sweet.


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## danl1 (Jul 23, 2005)

mmoose said:


> Well done. Big. Brass. Ones.


Indeed. Two of them.


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## cmdrpiffle (Mar 28, 2006)

Very encouraging.


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## Local Hero (Jul 8, 2010)

Did any of you guys race last season? 

Are you going to follow Lemond's advice and forgo your USAC license this year?


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## Mr. Clean (Jun 19, 2012)

Agree but how do you NOT buy a cycling license nowadays? You have to if you're racing.


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## Local Hero (Jul 8, 2010)

Mr. Clean said:


> Agree but how do you NOT buy a cycling license nowadays? You have to if you're racing.


That's what I'm saying. 

Lemond is getting senile. I don't care enough about what's happening in the UCI with Hein Verbuggery and sock puppet McQaid. I don't care enough about what the pros voluntarily do to their own bodies. All this stuff is far removed from my life. It's just not important enough for me to give up my favorite hobby. 

Then again, I've always considered myself to be more of an athlete than a fan.

I'm sure that many guys in the doping forum (who haven't raced in ears, if at all) will happily forgo buying their USAC license this year.


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## thighmaster (Feb 2, 2006)

Fireform said:


> Disappointing attitude from the Cannibal.


Why?, he had his own suspension even though he called it scandal--really--I don't beleive that anymore.


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## woodys737 (Dec 31, 2005)

Local Hero said:


> Did any of you guys race last season?
> 
> Are you going to follow Lemond's advice and forgo your USAC license this year?


I did. 

Actually thinking about it. Obviously Greg feels corruption is steering the ship over there as well but, I have not researched it to know one way or the other. Anyone give the clif version of the USAC?

edit: as in what's the connection?


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## den bakker (Nov 13, 2004)

Local Hero said:


> That's what I'm saying.
> 
> Lemond is getting senile. I don't care enough about what's happening in the UCI with Hein Verbuggery and sock puppet McQaid. I don't care enough about what the pros voluntarily do to their own bodies. All this stuff is far removed from my life. It's just not important enough for me to give up my favorite hobby.
> 
> ...


It's possible in states where there's a parallel racing scene.


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## woodys737 (Dec 31, 2005)

den bakker said:


> It's possible in states where there's a parallel racing scene.


Oregon and Colorado quickly come to mind. Any others? No way I'm driving 1000 miles to race a bike.


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## den bakker (Nov 13, 2004)

woodys737 said:


> Oregon and Colorado quickly come to mind. Any others? No way I'm driving 1000 miles to race a bike.


southern california, at least it had a few years ago. you'll miss out on boulevard and devils punch bowl but most races in socal are crits anyway.


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## woodys737 (Dec 31, 2005)

woodys737 said:


> Oregon and Colorado quickly come to mind. Any others? No way I'm driving 1000 miles to race a bike.


Check that. I've always wanted to do the Ironhorse Classic. So maybe one 1000 mile drive...


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## woodys737 (Dec 31, 2005)

den bakker said:


> southern california, at least it had a few years ago. you'll miss out on boulevard and devils punch bowl but most races in socal are crits anyway.


It's been a couple years since I did any races in socal. When I did I could have sworn they were all USAC sanctioned. No license no race. I could be wrong.


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## den bakker (Nov 13, 2004)

woodys737 said:


> It's been a couple years since I did any races in socal. When I did I could have sworn they were all USAC sanctioned. No license no race. I could be wrong.


there used to be the cbr calendar as well, there were some reciprocal deals with usa cycling and them. 
might have changed.


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## Lazy Spinner (Aug 30, 2009)

Many gran fondos have "competitive" divisions without needing a USAC sanction. Local teams and shops could put together an office park crit or CX race without getting a sanction. It appears that homegrown events can obtain liability coverage without needing a federation sanction. Heck, running events do it all the time and don't get USA Track and Field permission. Realistically, does anyone Cat3-5 really need to buy a license? Is getting points and "official" ego validation for placing in a Cat 4 or 5 Masters criterium really worth supporting a bureaucracy that gives very little back to self-sponsored athletes and takes its marching orders from UCI?


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## den bakker (Nov 13, 2004)

Lazy Spinner said:


> Many gran fondos have "competitive" divisions without needing a USAC sanction. Local teams and shops could put together an office park crit or CX race without getting a sanction. It appears that homegrown events can obtain liability coverage without needing a federation sanction. Heck, running events do it all the time and don't get USA Track and Field permission. Realistically, does anyone Cat3-5 really need to buy a license? Is getting points and "official" ego validation for placing in a Cat 4 or 5 Masters criterium really worth supporting a bureaucracy that gives very little back to self-sponsored athletes and takes its marching orders from UCI?


the problem arises as soon as there are category divisions and participants from different states. how do they mix and match?


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## goloso (Feb 4, 2004)

Local Hero said:


> That's what I'm saying.
> 
> I don't care enough about what the pros voluntarily do to their own bodies.


You think you have a choice, but really you don’t have a choice,” he said. “You spend your whole life working up to this point to get there, get there, get there…. And your whole love of cycling — you do this or you go home.”

What hurt the most was the financial pendulum’s swing. Once Frankie refused to do even the bare minimum of the doping program, things changed. 



If you want to race, knock yourself out. It’s not like your livelihood depends on it. You really do have a choice. I doubt GL is going to threaten the race organizers or your sponsors to make you stop.


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## PDex (Mar 23, 2004)

Colorado joined the Borg this year. There was talk of a couple of local promoters doing their own races not under the auspices of USAC/BRAC/ACA. Nothing ever came of it.


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## burgrat (Nov 18, 2005)

Fat Pat's son takes a jab at LeMond on twitter then deletes it. What a douchenozzle.

Directupload.net - hnez8ogv.jpg


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## Lazy Spinner (Aug 30, 2009)

I understand the need for a federation but is it really necessary for anyone other than Cat 1-2 riders or promising juniors? The majority of USAC membership and license money is from Cat 3-5 racers and Masters but USAC puts little to no effort back into those classes. Other than posting "points" that mean little other than stroking someone's ego needs, what do amateur racers really need USAC for?

I belong to OBRA here in Oregon and they do a wonderful job of organizing the race calendar and record keeping at all levels. Racing is accessible and carried out in a friendly manner. What we don't have is 99% of funds being held for elites, self-important commissars measuring bikes to the nth degree and pulling riders on technicalities, and a bunch of ridiculous politics. USAC racers from Washington, Idaho, and California are welcomed at OBRA events and they universally praise the organization and quality of our events over the lack of USAC involvement in their home states. Lately, USAC has been making noise about a hostile takeover Oregon much like they did in Colorado. Other than a handful of podium talent and aspiring pros, most of us would flip the bird to USAC and keep OBRA as a "pirate" league for folks that love racing bikes.

I would encourage other fun loving no talents like myself to quit paying USAC for nothing and make racing a DIY affair unless the federation reforms itself and aligns with the values of its membership. Honestly, should I really care that some other 45+ guy in Orlando or Boulder has more "points" than me? What does it even matter? I'm an old Cat 4 and have no legitimate reason to be another piece of pack fodder at Masters Natz. Why should my dollars support riders that have pro contracts? Or well financed teams? Or Steve Johnson's and Thom Weisel's egos?


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## Doctor Falsetti (Sep 24, 2010)

Local Hero said:


> Lemond is getting senile.


Hardly. 

The license idea is symbolic, doubt it will gain much traction. The rest of it is important. Verbuggen and McQuaid have been corrupt embarrassments to the sport for over a decade. They need to be removed. 

It is interesting that the growth of the sport is happening in areas the UCI has limited control over. Mass participation,endurance focused, cycling events have exploded in Europe over the last 10 years.....but that is a topic for another thread. 

Greg is right, Hein and Pat have to go


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## kbwh (May 28, 2010)

Getting the right people to replace them may prove difficult, though.


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## Doctor Falsetti (Sep 24, 2010)

Lazy Spinner said:


> I understand the need for a federation but is it really necessary for anyone other than Cat 1-2 riders or promising juniors? The majority of USAC membership and license money is from Cat 3-5 racers and Masters but USAC puts little to no effort back into those classes. Other than posting "points" that mean little other than stroking someone's ego needs, what do amateur racers really need USAC for?
> 
> I belong to OBRA here in Oregon and they do a wonderful job of organizing the race calendar and record keeping at all levels. Racing is accessible and carried out in a friendly manner. What we don't have is 99% of funds being held for elites, self-important commissars measuring bikes to the nth degree and pulling riders on technicalities, and a bunch of ridiculous politics. USAC racers from Washington, Idaho, and California are welcomed at OBRA events and they universally praise the organization and quality of our events over the lack of USAC involvement in their home states. Lately, USAC has been making noise about a hostile takeover Oregon much like they did in Colorado. Other than a handful of podium talent and aspiring pros, most of us would flip the bird to USAC and keep OBRA as a "pirate" league for folks that love racing bikes.
> 
> I would encourage other fun loving no talents like myself to quit paying USAC for nothing and make racing a DIY affair unless the federation reforms itself and aligns with the values of its membership. Honestly, should I really care that some other 45+ guy in Orlando or Boulder has more "points" than me? What does it even matter? I'm an old Cat 4 and have no legitimate reason to be another piece of pack fodder at Masters Natz. Why should my dollars support riders that have pro contracts? Or well financed teams? Or Steve Johnson's and Thom Weisel's egos?


Good points. OBRA is great. Oregon is what bike racing should be. Usually a fun, welcoming, atomosphere


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## CoffeeBean2 (Aug 6, 2005)

woodys737 said:


> Oregon and Colorado quickly come to mind. Any others? No way I'm driving 1000 miles to race a bike.


Colorado no longer has an independent racing organization. ACA merged with USAC last year. IL has ABR.


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## danl1 (Jul 23, 2005)

kbwh said:


> Getting the right people to replace them may prove difficult, though.


Depends on if you're looking for 'best', or simply 'better.'


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## il sogno (Jul 15, 2002)

Quick question: Who is Paul?


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## kiwisimon (Oct 30, 2002)

il sogno said:


> Quick question: Who is Paul?


Paul Kimmage - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


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## kbwh (May 28, 2010)

danl1 said:


> Depends on if you're looking for 'best', or simply 'better.'


Next in line is some russian oligarc...


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## Local Hero (Jul 8, 2010)

den bakker said:


> the problem arises as soon as there are category divisions and participants from different states. how do they mix and match?


Self-selecting? 

It works in cyclocross races. I imagine it would work in road races. Things could get dangerous in crits.


Doctor Falsetti said:


> Hardly.
> 
> The license idea is symbolic, doubt it will gain much traction.


At 51, maybe he's not senile. But check out his letter. It's poorly written and repetitive. Saying "I don't know much about social networking" and posting the call to arms ten times on facebook would be funny if it were not sad. Advancing an idea that will not get much traction is a sign that he overestimates his importance. So senile is the wrong word here. I should have said deluded.

How many guys who raced last year, guys who were planned on racing this year and are currently in the middle of their "winter training" read that letter and decided not to buy a license? I'm not talking about "fans" who haven't raced in forever. I'm not talking about the guys who don't ever buy bikes who now loudly proclaim they will never buy a Trek. I'm talking about the average US racer who held a USAC license last year. I doubt USAC will feel anything. Either LeMond knows this or he is out of touch. 

Now before anyone gets their feelings hurt by what I've said about their good buddy LeMond: That's not to say that LeMond wasn't a badass, the best American cyclist and all that. He should have run that letter by PR before mashing the Post button.


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## kiwisimon (Oct 30, 2002)

Local Hero said:


> He should have run that letter by PR before mashing the Post button.


A la ........ UCI, Lance et al? I like GL's sentiment, it's frustration naked and raw.


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## kbwh (May 28, 2010)

Does he have a PR staff? I understand LA has one, but...


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## Local Hero (Jul 8, 2010)

kiwisimon said:


> A la ........ UCI, Lance et al? I like GL's sentiment, it's frustration naked and raw.


I don't think the idiots at the UCI have ever even heard of public relations. 

Sentiment? Sure, I was with him until he said not to buy a USAC license.


kbwh said:


> Does he have a PR staff? I understand LA has one, but...


Does he have a wife? (My gf runs my PR department.)


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## kbwh (May 28, 2010)

I'll still buy my Norwegian license, even if comeraderie under the omerta just has been exposed in the organisation.

But I haven't been made a pariah by my organisation like GL has.


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## Local Hero (Jul 8, 2010)

What role has USAC played in all this?


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## rydbyk (Feb 17, 2010)

Local Hero said:


> What role has USAC played in all this?


Yes, can someone explain this one? Oh and...go Greg. Was that really Greg?:thumbsup:


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## LostViking (Jul 18, 2008)

rydbyk said:


> Yes, can someone explain this one? Oh and...go Greg. Was that really Greg?:thumbsup:


I can't say I know, but its always been my impression that USAC was a toady of the UCI - the UCI said "Jump!" and the USAC asked "How high?"

Anyone who can speak to this with more authority?


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## The Tedinator (Mar 12, 2004)

I have been thinking about this all afternoon as I lounged down by the beach. There is one person who could throw his weight behind Lemond who has the goods on the UCI that could bring down the whole house of cards. Might even redeem himself a bit too. But there ain't no way I can see it happening.


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## goloso (Feb 4, 2004)

Local Hero said:


> What role has USAC played in all this?


The American governing body for cycling says it must accept the jurisdiction of the sport's international federation and *side against the U.S. Anti-Doping Agency in the court fight to determine which has group has jurisdiction over the Lance Armstrong doping case*.


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## Local Hero (Jul 8, 2010)

I see...
_Armstrong's lawyers wrote a letter Friday to U.S. District Judge Sam Sparks, attaching a letter from Stephen Hess, a lawyer from USA Cycling.

"USAC believes that UCI has the power to express its interpretation of WADA's anti-doping code," Hess wrote.
...
Said USADA CEO Travis Tygart: "UCI's attempt to control the outcome through pressuring USA Cycling is tellingly sad and is further evidence why USADA as an independent national anti-doping agency that exists solely to protect clean athletes and the integrity of sport is the proper body to handle the case."
_


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## Doctor Falsetti (Sep 24, 2010)

Local Hero said:


> Self-selecting?
> 
> It works in cyclocross races. I imagine it would work in road races. Things could get dangerous in crits. At 51, maybe he's not senile. But check out his letter. It's poorly written and repetitive. Saying "I don't know much about social networking" and posting the call to arms ten times on facebook would be funny if it were not sad. Advancing an idea that will not get much traction is a sign that he overestimates his importance. So senile is the wrong word here. I should have said deluded.
> 
> ...



Greg may not have put much work into his English studies but he has a Phd in the sport of bike racing. His observations of what a mess Pat and Hein have made are spot on. They are a joke and need to go.

If proofreading is a hobby I suggest reading some of the McQuaid documents from the Armstrong case. Wow, amazingly bad stuff.


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## Doctor Falsetti (Sep 24, 2010)

goloso said:


> The American governing body for cycling says it must accept the jurisdiction of the sport's international federation and *side against the U.S. Anti-Doping Agency in the court fight to determine which has group has jurisdiction over the Lance Armstrong doping case*.


Still a lot more to come on USAC. People wouldn't testify willingly and once Armstrong dropped his case USADA lost subpoena power. If Johan's case goes forward, and I doubt it will, There will be some interesting testimoney


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## ocean-ro (Nov 23, 2009)

I agree, that is the next move in order to clean the mess in pro-cycling.
Thank you,Greg !


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## il sogno (Jul 15, 2002)

ah, thanks.


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## pianopiano (Jun 4, 2005)

Local Hero said:


> Self-selecting?
> 
> It works in cyclocross races. I imagine it would work in road races. Things could get dangerous in crits. At 51, maybe he's not senile. But check out his letter. It's poorly written and repetitive. Saying "I don't know much about social networking" and posting the call to arms ten times on facebook would be funny if it were not sad. Advancing an idea that will not get much traction is a sign that he overestimates his importance. So senile is the wrong word here. I should have said deluded.
> 
> ...


I think that you should offer to be Greg's proof-reader. You seem to have a very keen attention to detail. :thumbsup:

I thought that the message of Greg's letter was fantastic, spot on, and needs to be said. Thank you, Greg LeMond.


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## Local Hero (Jul 8, 2010)

_
Greg Lemond gets up there and recommends we all stop racing, and stop buying USA Cycling licenses. Really? Are you serious? Then masters racers who-were-going-to-quit-this-year-anyway “bravely” give up their sport “for the greater cause”. You’ve got to be kidding me. This makes me ill.

How many races have you been to that have been small--the type that make you quip "This one might not be around next year, they probably are losing money after they pay the police for road closures and pay all of the Cat 1's who can't afford gasoline to get home if they don't win cash primes". Probably a few. It surprises you when a few passionate individuals make the race happen the next year—against all odds. Some of my greatest racing memories were from those little races. After all, the real fast guys are probably chasing bigger prize purses—leaving the local fast ponies to win a race or two for once.

Now imagine all those small races disappear due to lack of attendance, and half the big race’s attendance are cut in half. This creates a scenario where there is less energy, passion, and excitement for cycling. This is not the solution!
..._

continued


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## Doctor Falsetti (Sep 24, 2010)

Yup, lets focus on the licenses......far more important then Hein and Pat. :thumbsup:


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## mpre53 (Oct 25, 2011)

rydbyk said:


> Yes, can someone explain this one? Oh and...go Greg. Was that really Greg?:thumbsup:


Yeah, it was really him. I was perusing his personal Facebook timeline awhile ago, and he owned it. He was an impulse on his part. He also said that Kathy and his kids apparently threw a fit when they saw it.and made him dump it. :lol:

He said he should have done something a little more formal.

And now that post has gone poof. 

Sometimes discretion seems to really be the better part of valor. :thumbsup:


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## Local Hero (Jul 8, 2010)

We all agree that Verbugger is corrupt. For years he has been up to his elbow in the sockpuppet Pat. LeMond recommends that we donate to the Kimmage defense fund. Great! (But LeMond encourages Kimmage to divert the funds for "real change" -- what does that say to those who donated for a legal defense?)

The letter does not end with LeMond telling Kimmage to spend the funds elsewhere. We cannot say that Kimmage's defense is the focus of LeMond's rant. He ends with a call to arms. It is about licenses. 


Doctor Falsetti said:


> Yup, lets focus on the licenses......far more important then Hein and Pat. :thumbsup:


Please do not pretend that someone is shifting the focus. 

LeMond says to focus on the licenses. He says that if we really want to clean up the sport is to skip buying licenses for a year. His words: 

_If people really want to clean the sport of cycling up all you have to do is put your money where your mouth is.

Don’t buy a USA Cycling license. Give up racing for a year, just long enough to put the UCI and USA cycling out of business. _


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## CoffeeBean2 (Aug 6, 2005)

Local Hero said:


> _
> Greg Lemond gets up there and recommends we all stop racing, and stop buying USA Cycling licenses. Really? Are you serious? Then masters racers who-were-going-to-quit-this-year-anyway “bravely” give up their sport “for the greater cause”. You’ve got to be kidding me. This makes me ill.
> 
> How many races have you been to that have been small--the type that make you quip "This one might not be around next year, they probably are losing money after they pay the police for road closures and pay all of the Cat 1's who can't afford gasoline to get home if they don't win cash primes". Probably a few. It surprises you when a few passionate individuals make the race happen the next year—against all odds. Some of my greatest racing memories were from those little races. After all, the real fast guys are probably chasing bigger prize purses—leaving the local fast ponies to win a race or two for once.
> ...


Guys on my team emailed this earlier and they all agree - John Meyers gets it.


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## pedalruns (Dec 18, 2002)

Thank you Greg!! Yes Fat Pat needs to go. I think I'm going to donate for Kimmage. 

And as far as the writing he doesn't have a PR company, which for me makes the letter REAL... I'm not sure how serious he was about boycotting USA cycling, but Colorado and several states have their own racing organization.. I've always thought of USA cycling is kind of thinking they are more important than they are.. I wish more states would follow Colorado's example anyway. And not to mention it isn't too far removed from when they were doping juniors!


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## CoffeeBean2 (Aug 6, 2005)

pedalruns said:


> Thank you Greg!! Yes Fat Pat needs to go. I think I'm going to donate for Kimmage.
> 
> And as far as the writing he doesn't have a PR company, which for me makes the letter REAL... I'm not sure how serious he was about boycotting USA cycling, but Colorado and several states have their own racing organization.. I've always thought of USA cycling is kind of thinking they are more important than they are.. I wish more states would follow Colorado's example anyway. And not to mention it isn't too far removed from when they were doping juniors!


Colorado no longer has its own racing organization. The ACA board voted to re-integrate with USAC last year.


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## pedalruns (Dec 18, 2002)

CoffeeBean2 said:


> Colorado no longer has its own racing organization. The ACA board voted to re-integrate with USAC last year.


Ok... I remember years ago trying to do a race in Co and finding out they had their own organization.. It lasted a pretty long time then. 

The point I was making about USA cycling.. to me it always seemed like a good old boys network.. But again, I haven't really raced in years.. I date back to the USCF days!


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## Local Hero (Jul 8, 2010)

pedalruns said:


> Ok... I remember years ago trying to do a race in Co and finding out they had their own organization.. It lasted a pretty long time then.
> 
> The point I was making about USA cycling.. to me it always seemed like a good old boys network.. But again, I haven't really raced in years.. I date back to the USCF days!


The United States Chess Federation?


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## Doctor Falsetti (Sep 24, 2010)

Local Hero said:


> Please do not pretend that someone is shifting the focus.
> 
> LeMond says to focus on the licenses.


You are shifting the focus. The letter is about the corruption of Pat and Hein and removing them from the sport. He says multiple times what is the best way to address it. 

He is confident that Paul's case will be key



> I have a file with what I believe is well documented proof that will exonerate Paul.


And urges people repeatedly to donate to Paul's fund



> I would encourage anyone that loves cycling to donate and support Paul in his fight against the Pat and Hein and the UCI.





> Skip lunch and donate the amount that you would have spent towards that Sunday buffet towards changing the sport of cycling





> I donated money for Paul’s defense, and I am willing to donate a lot more, but I would like to use it to lobby for dramatic change in cycling.





> People that really care about cycling have the power to change cycling- change it now by voicing your thought and donating money towards Paul Kimmage’s defense





> Use the money to lobby for real change


You are welcome to focus on the 2 sentences at the end of the letter but most see this letter as a call for support for Paul's case as Greg sees it as the vehicle to change the UCI.


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## kbwh (May 28, 2010)

Did you see Kimmage's tweet that came after the UCI meeting today?
"On my signal, unleash hell!"

It's getting better and better.


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## champamoore (Jul 30, 2012)

MG537 said:


> we have Eddy Merckx making statements such as this
> _"I'm angry at the riders for speaking to investigators," Merckx said on Le Soir._


That quote leads could lead one to believe that he is just angry with them for speaking up. Iin fact, the context is that he is upset that those who testified _*waited so long*_ (and until being under duress, in numerous cases, [this part is my interpretatation]) to do so. 

His belief that a case built purely on testimony and less than conclusive physical evidence is not sufficient for the punishment dealt out seems relatively reasonable, too.

I don't agree with his perspective, but can see his point. Hopefully LA will next be found guilty in a _court of law_ beyond a reasonable doubt, where standards of evidence are much more clear, and face some *real* suffering for his misdeeds.

As for Mr LeMond, I see his points, and agree, but wish he would take the time to edit his statement so that it is succinct, and well worded, rather than an obvious rant. The public ranting doesn't help him (nor his points) look better, however injured by this circus, he has been.


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## Creakyknees (Sep 21, 2003)

I Had No Idea


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## rydbyk (Feb 17, 2010)

kbwh said:


> Did you see Kimmage's tweet that came after the UCI meeting today?
> "On my signal, unleash hell!"
> 
> It's getting better and better.


Wow...go Paul. This whole train wreck was bound to happen sooner or later... For the most part, the good will be vindicated and the bad...well...the karma police is a comin'


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## mpre53 (Oct 25, 2011)

champamoore said:


> That quote leads could lead one to believe that he is just angry with them for speaking up. Iin fact, the context is that he is upset that those who testified _*waited so long*_ (and until being under duress, in numerous cases, [this part is my interpretatation]) to do so.
> 
> His belief that a case built purely on testimony and less than conclusive physical evidence is not sufficient for the punishment dealt out seems relatively reasonable, too.
> 
> ...


Eddy's a Belgian. He has absolutely no understanding of the US legal system and the consequences involved in refusing to answer questions under immunity in a grand jury.


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## Cpk (Aug 1, 2009)

Tomahawk said:


> Greg should put his hand up and become UCI President.


Reading the article a second time the thought that, that might be exactly what he's jockeying for came across my mind. I was just looking to post about it.


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## the_doctor (Dec 27, 2008)

Lazy Spinner said:


> I understand the need for a federation but is it really necessary for anyone other than Cat 1-2 riders or promising juniors? The majority of USAC membership and license money is from Cat 3-5 racers and Masters but USAC puts little to no effort back into those classes. Other than posting "points" that mean little other than stroking someone's ego needs, what do amateur racers really need USAC for?
> 
> I belong to OBRA here in Oregon and they do a wonderful job of organizing the race calendar and record keeping at all levels. Racing is accessible and carried out in a friendly manner. What we don't have is 99% of funds being held for elites, self-important commissars measuring bikes to the nth degree and pulling riders on technicalities, and a bunch of ridiculous politics. USAC racers from Washington, Idaho, and California are welcomed at OBRA events and they universally praise the organization and quality of our events over the lack of USAC involvement in their home states. Lately, USAC has been making noise about a hostile takeover Oregon much like they did in Colorado. Other than a handful of podium talent and aspiring pros, most of us would flip the bird to USAC and keep OBRA as a "pirate" league for folks that love racing bikes.
> 
> I would encourage other fun loving no talents like myself to quit paying USAC for nothing and make racing a DIY affair unless the federation reforms itself and aligns with the values of its membership. Honestly, should I really care that some other 45+ guy in Orlando or Boulder has more "points" than me? What does it even matter? I'm an old Cat 4 and have no legitimate reason to be another piece of pack fodder at Masters Natz. Why should my dollars support riders that have pro contracts? Or well financed teams? Or Steve Johnson's and Thom Weisel's egos?


I can't race in Masters races. Why are there whole weekends for Master Racing in my region(New England)? The calendar is VERY SPARSE in New England especially during July & August. There really isn't much in the calendar in comparison to California. Most of the races near Boston sell out since there are only a handful in towns adjacent to the city limits. 

The guys around here are volunteers. There are too few willing to actually run a race. A whole bunch of races have been canceled or promised.

You have to hire a timing guy, hire officials, advertise, work with the police, handle the logistics, and most importantly front the money.

US Cycling should RUN RACES for us. They have people to handle logistics and cash to front these races. Why does UCI run PRO races and USAC sits? As mentioned by the op US Cycling should be serving the 3-5 crowd. They need races.

For this yearI heard a rumor that there are practically no new Cat-5s in my area. Triathlon clubs are booming. People are out there and they are not joining racing or US Cycling.

Bill


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## mpre53 (Oct 25, 2011)

Cpk said:


> Reading the article a second time the thought that, that might be exactly what he's jockeying for came across my mind. I was just looking to post about it.


Not a chance. Greg often runs his mouth before his brain is fully engaged. It's an admirable trait in a crusader, but the position requires tact.


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