# Endurance vs. Race, what's the difference?



## Nubster (Jul 8, 2009)

I'm looking around and lusting after a new bike. Not sure why, my current bike, a 2012 Specialized Comp Apex Mid-Compact is perfectly suitable and I am certainly not out riding my bike. I'm just in one of those moods I guess. 

Anyways, I've been really checking out the Cannondale CAAD10's, but honestly, at this point, even though I have a slight interest (but even less ability) in racing at some point, I'd say the real chance of that happening are slim. Not anytime soon at least. What I do find is that I'm increasing distances of my rides reaching out towards my goal of 100 mile rides. Because of this my thinking has me looking towards endurance style bikes rather than racing. 

So my question is, what is the difference in how a race bike rides compared to an endurance bike? I'd like to get out and try an endurance bike, but none of the shops in my area have anything right now. I'd have to drive 2+ hours to find a shop that has anything, which I'm planning on doing at some point once I decide on my budget and what bikes I'd like to check out.


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## Team Sarcasm (Oct 22, 2012)

Here is a good one from cannondale's website. I have been eyeing the caad10's for a long time...but my synapse is way to comfy so it's a keeper


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## Nubster (Jul 8, 2009)

Yeah, I saw that and it's helpful to a point. I was hoping maybe someone could give a comparison from experience though your comment about your Synapse being comfy helps. I'm just trying to figure out kinda how they feel compared to each other via descriptions from those who ride/have ridden both. I'm hoping to get to a shop that has both so I can do some back to back rides, but that likely won't happen until end of the month or next.

Also, does the longer chainstay on the comfort road bike seem to affect climbing at all? I know when I went to a short chainstay mountain bike, climbing ability increased noticeably.


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## mikerp (Jul 24, 2011)

A CAAD10 is a favorite for Crit racing, cheap, light, stiff, and aggressive geometry (crits aren't long races).
In a 56 a CAAD10 has a stack and reach of 56 and 39.4, in comparison a Domane 56 is 59.1 and 38.
Depending on your physical shape and flexibility you could ride a CAAD10 all day long, on the other hand an hour could seem too much.
In regards to chain stay length, shorter stays in general will make a stiffer frame, stiffer frame will give a harsher ride. Longer stays will allow for a softer ride. Unless you are standing and climbing (IE putting out watts) I can't see how shorter stays are make you climb easier other than you had a real noodle with the first bike.


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## PJ352 (Dec 5, 2007)

Nubster said:


> Yeah, I saw that and it's helpful to a point. I was hoping maybe someone could give a comparison from experience though your comment about your Synapse being comfy helps. I'm just trying to figure out kinda how they feel compared to each other via descriptions from those who ride/have ridden both. I'm hoping to get to a shop that has both so I can do some back to back rides, but that likely won't happen until end of the month or next.
> 
> Also, does the longer chainstay on the comfort road bike seem to affect climbing at all? I know when I went to a short chainstay mountain bike, climbing ability increased noticeably.


Perceptions on how two bikes ride/ handle are highly subjective, so I agree that back to back testing (with tire pressures equalized) of both race/ relaxed would be the best way to go.

FWIW, my riding impressions are that (all else being equal) race allows a more aero/ aggressive rider position, slightly quicker (some say twitchy) handling and a somewhat harsher ride. Relaxed/ endurance allows a slightly more upright rider position, slightly slower (more predictable) steering and slightly better ride. 

Which you prefer will depend on a number of factors, including riding experiences, road conditions, anatomy/ flexibility, personal preferences, among others. 

I agree with Mikerp on the cause/ effect of longer chainstays and also see no correlation between length of chainstays and a bikes climbing ability. Lots of pro circuit races are won with riders on relaxed/ endurance bikes, so IMO that speaks volumes for the bikes ability to compete.


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## Nubster (Jul 8, 2009)

Maybe it's different with mountain bikes. It seems to be popular opinion that shorter chain stays = a better climbing frame. I can attest to that in that I rode my old bike one day and built and rode the new bike within a few days of that ride, so nothing about me changed but climbing was much improved. Of course there could be other factors involved with the differences in geometry between the two bikes, even frame material. Old bike is a stiff Al frame, the new bike is steel.

Thanks for the responses though. It helps kinda understand. I will definitely ride the two types back to back, even if I have to take my Allez and ride it as the race frame. Probably should anyways so I can see how the other bikes ride differently from mine.


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## PJ352 (Dec 5, 2007)

Nubster said:


> Maybe it's different with mountain bikes. It seems to be popular opinion that shorter chain stays = a better climbing frame.


There are lots of (flawed) popular opinions on all sorts of topics. This, IMO, being one.



Nubster said:


> Of course there could be other factors involved...


Yes, very likely... 



Nubster said:


> Thanks for the responses though. It helps kinda understand. I will definitely ride the two types back to back,* even if I have to take my Allez and ride it as the race frame*. Probably should anyways so I can see how the other bikes ride differently from mine.


Actually, you can't have a better baseline for comparison than your well fitting race bike. From there, test out a few relaxed geo bikes.


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## Typetwelve (Jul 1, 2012)

I spent the entire last season on a 2009 Roubaix 105 and now own a 2012 Tarmac 105 (both a 56cm frame).

The difference is large.

The Roubaix was far more mellow in ride and much less aggressive in riding position, even in the drops I never felt at down low as I do with my Tarmac. The Front forks on the Roubaix also flex more absorbing much more of the road vibrations.

I never felt the Roubaix was lacking, it is plenty fast and fun to ride but the Tarmac just feels +1 in every category. Stiffer, faster, more responsive. Now, I've read that the SL4 Roubaix is different so all I can account for is what I rode...which is a 7r SL2 Roubaix and an 8r SL2 Tarmac.

Personally...I'm glad I went for the Tarmac. It feels more lively to me, more aggressive. You do give up some comfort but I feel it is worth the price.


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## Nubster (Jul 8, 2009)

I'm really hoping to find a shop that has some endurance bikes in stock. I'd love to see how they ride.


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## genux (Jun 18, 2012)

Also, don't discount the fact that bikes can be made to "fit" your preferred riding style. I've seen race bikes (e.g. Specialized Tarmac) setup in a more upright position and endurance bikes (e.g. Specialized Roubaix) in a more aggressive position.

The difference will probably boil down to stiffness / plushness / twitchiness, but for that, you really have to put the bike through its paces.


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## GOTA (Aug 27, 2012)

What's the difference between endurance and race? Marketing. 

It's all about what fits you


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## PJ352 (Dec 5, 2007)

GOTA said:


> What's the difference between endurance and race? *Marketing*.
> 
> It's all about what fits you


Can't argue about fit - _any_ bike needs to fit well, but race versus relaxed isn't ALL marketing. If it were, we could tour on race bikes and race on touring bikes. Or maybe use a mtb in the TdF. 

Some extreme examples, yes, but point being, geo changes the characteristics (and character) of a bike. Lengthening wheelbase smooths the ride. Increase trail and steering slows and stabilizes a bit. Nothing drastic, but IME and in many cases, it is perceptible.

I agree with genux that certain (marketing) aspects can be neutralized with stem angle/ spacer setups, but the geo thus handling and (to some extent ride) is a constant.


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## Nubster (Jul 8, 2009)

genux said:


> Also, don't discount the fact that bikes can be made to "fit" your preferred riding style. I've seen race bikes (e.g. Specialized Tarmac) setup in a more upright position and endurance bikes (e.g. Specialized Roubaix) in a more aggressive position.
> 
> The difference will probably boil down to stiffness / plushness / twitchiness, but for that, you really have to put the bike through its paces.


To be honest...it also comes down to the fact that I just kinda want a new bike...lol...not that there is anything at all wrong with my Allez, and at this point, it's working out just fine for me and really I don't see it not working for me for the long haul. I'll admit I do need a fitting done but I'll wait to see if I get a new bike or stay with the Allez before I drop $250 on a fitting. I do like the idea of a more comfortable bike though as my riding distances are increasing, closing in on that century mileage.


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## PJ352 (Dec 5, 2007)

Nubster said:


> To be honest...it also comes down to the fact that I just kinda want a new bike...lol... I do like the idea of a more comfortable bike though as my riding distances are increasing, closing in on that century mileage.


Far be it from me to try to talk you out of a new bike, but I'm curious what tires/ size you're running on your Allez. Also, if you haven't experimented with pressures, that might be worthwhile. Going with higher quality tires, increasing tire size (if possible) and dialing in your PSI's will all increase comfort.


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## Team Sarcasm (Oct 22, 2012)

Nubster said:


> To be honest...it also comes down to the fact that I just kinda want a new bike...lol...not that there is anything at all wrong with my Allez, and at this point, it's working out just fine for me and really I don't see it not working for me for the long haul. I'll admit I do need a fitting done but I'll wait to see if I get a new bike or stay with the Allez before I drop $250 on a fitting. I do like the idea of a more comfortable bike though as my riding distances are increasing, closing in on that century mileage.


250$ on a fitting?  might want to find a different shop to save some coin unless they will take off that much on the bike you buy.


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## nonya (Aug 7, 2013)

Team Sarcasm said:


> 250$ on a fitting?  might want to find a different shop to save some coin unless they will take off that much on the bike you buy.


on average, what should one expect to pay for a fitting?


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## PJ352 (Dec 5, 2007)

Team Sarcasm said:


> 250$ on a fitting?  might want to find a different shop to save some coin unless they will take off that much on the bike you buy.


I'm assuming (maybe wrongfully) that the OP is referring to a pro level fitting. Most all shops include a standard fitting with a new bike purchase - $50-$75 without a bike purchase.


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