# Astana still rides on a 5.2!?



## MANTEIGA (Sep 26, 2008)

That's very interesting.....
Picked up Velonews 09 buyers guide that reviews all of the tours "VICTORY MACHINES"...

seems the 6 series madone still too light for the UCI!? (even with power meter?)
Whole Astana team on black carbon!!. ( I've always thought that was pre 2005 - in lance years, due to an undeveloped red carbon,,,? )
Contador still on a black frame fitted with red SRAM, won all three grand tours on it..... - as well as the rest of the team???.

Is the red series carbon that #$%#ing lighter than the black? 

Any 6.9 owners out there.... how much does your bike weigh?
sub -15lbs?

trek never publishes 
a weight on their 
specs....?!


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## zac (Aug 5, 2005)

Don't know if what you say is the fact. Levi has given interviews and so has Ben Coates that his is an OCLV Red. The Livestrong is an OCLV Red frame

My bike without even trying is 6930 grams (15.3 lbs.) If I was riding tubulars in the weights they were, and/or SRAM Red which is lighter as a group than DA 7800, then my bike would definitely be under 6800 grams. Just for fun, if I was running DA7900 and a set of 1100 gram wheels, I could get my bike at 13.9 lbs. See the problem.

zac


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## dave_gt (Jul 25, 2008)

Hmmm...

So what is the minimum weight (in lbs.) for the bike to qualify?

And, in the end, is there really a practical difference in which frame they use?

dave


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## zac (Aug 5, 2005)

For the ProTour and other UCI ruled events, and events following UCI rules, it is 6.800Kg which is essentially 15lbs. 

I have ridden both Black and Red and I can't really tell any difference.


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## PJ352 (Dec 5, 2007)

MANTEIGA said:


> trek never publishes
> a weight on their
> specs....?!


If you've noticed, most manufacturers don't post weights. C'dale used to, then started 'grumbling' that other companies were testing, say 49cm frames. Now they don't even list MSRP's. Absured, IMHO.

If you read through Trek's Up the Road minisite, there are references to the black/ red Madones weights. I believe (and zac can correct me on this) the early reds were about 200 g's lighter than the blacks, but subsequent production runs were only about 80 g's lighter.


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## dave_gt (Jul 25, 2008)

zac said:


> For the ProTour and other UCI ruled events, and events following UCI rules, it is 6.800Kg which is essentially 15lbs.
> 
> I have ridden both Black and Red and I can't really tell any difference.



You know...it would be the pits to have your bike weighed in with different scales and achieving different results when you are really close to the minimum...I have heard of that happening, so maybe the black frame makes more sense?


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## zac (Aug 5, 2005)

PJ352 said:


> If you've noticed, most manufacturers don't post weights. C'dale used to, then started 'grumbling' that other companies were testing, say 49cm frames. Now they don't even list MSRP's. Absured, IMHO.
> 
> If you read through Trek's Up the Road minisite, there are references to the black/ red Madones weights. I believe (and zac can correct me on this) the early reds were about 200 g's lighter than the blacks, but subsequent production runs were only about 80 g's lighter.


PJ, I do not know what the fuselage weight difference is between Black and Red, but I would suspect that it is more than 80g.

I have perhaps a bit of a unique experience in that I have owned both a very early build Red and a later build Red OCLV frame. There was no difference (IIRC within 5-10grams - without actually looking it up) between the two framesets weight wise, and yes I weighed them, and yes on the same scale. With the later Red frame being the heavier of the two. This could have been due to paint and the RDH.

Now as to Red/Black- again not having actually weighed a 56cm Black Pro fuselage - I would venture a guess that the mid modulus carbon coupled with the aluminum steerer on the Bonty RXL forks would push the difference in the mid 100g range. Still this is not terribly significant and is basically the weight of two tubes. I have to tell you that the all carbon RXXXL fork is scary, your eyes and hands are deceiving you, light. It has to be one of the lightest all carbon forks available on the market today.

I wouldn't be too concerned about the scale differences. Scales are surprisingly accurate. Even cheap ones.


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## 08Madone5.2 (Dec 25, 2007)

My 08 5.2 is 16 1/4 lbs with 2 Bontrager carbon cages and an Incite 9I wireless computer with Speedplay Frogs. Looks like the 5.2 may have become the workhorse of the Madone lineup?


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## PJ352 (Dec 5, 2007)

08Madone5.2 said:


> My 08 5.2 is 16 1/4 lbs with 2 Bontrager carbon cages and an Incite 9I wireless computer with Speedplay Frogs. Looks like the 5.2 may have become the workhorse of the Madone lineup?


They're saving the higher end Madones for the _really_ important races.


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## parker3375 (May 6, 2008)

As far as I know the only rider that rides with the red series frame is Levi. And that's because he races with a SRM and the other riders don't. They've all been riding black series frames since Contador's tour victory.


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## uzziefly (Jul 15, 2006)

Having a lighter frame gives them more options when adding lead weights for stages - they can somehow shift the center of mass towards the front or so by changing components and/or adding lead with a bike that has more room to play with in terms of weight.

Of course, if it's too light, then it doesn't make sense and hence, they'd just use the 5.2 perhaps.


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## GR68 (Feb 4, 2008)

zac said:


> ......ht of two tubes. I have to tell you that the all carbon RXXXL fork is scary, your eyes and hands are deceiving you, light. It has to be one of the lightest all carbon forks available on the market today.
> 
> I was actually a little disappionted with the weight of my R XXX L forks with my 6.9 frames. Of three all have come in (uncut) about 385 - 400 grams. My old forks for my 2006 5.9 only weigh about 320grams with an alloy steerer.
> 
> ...


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## zac (Aug 5, 2005)

GR68 said:


> zac said:
> 
> 
> > ......ht of two tubes. I have to tell you that the all carbon RXXXL fork is scary, your eyes and hands are deceiving you, light. It has to be one of the lightest all carbon forks available on the market today.
> ...


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## GR68 (Feb 4, 2008)

I Took these pics on Saturday at the start of the Milano San Remo.

The bike on the roof ( Lance's spare? ) has the Red OCLV dot on it, and also an SRM.

Lance's new bike - 2009 Number ....? is the same as the rest of the team frames having no OCLV color or Model number designation. 

I really liked Lance's TDU bike but they seem to get worse as the year goes on.


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## saturncyclist (Aug 8, 2006)

My understanding is that Trek intentionally made black and red frames with the same ride quality. The riders with SRM's use red frames to compensate for the weight of the SRM. At least that was the explanation I heard as to why Levi (using one of the smallest frames) was seen on a red frame.


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## MANTEIGA (Sep 26, 2008)

*wtf is that!?*



GR68 said:


> I Took these pics on Saturday at the start of the Milano San Remo.
> 
> The bike on the roof ( Lance's spare? ) has the Red OCLV dot on it, and also an SRM.
> 
> ...



without doubt one of the worst project one nightmares ever made..... what are those..TEETH!?
This must be a joke.


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## identifiler (Dec 24, 2005)

Manteiga, this is an original fake by Kaws or a Kaws' original fake. Kaws is all around you and his story is fairly similar to the likes of Shepard Fairey for example or Banksy. As far as taste goes, to each it's own but my old lady knows who he is and thinks your avatar is bad ****... (as in bad ****, you know...).


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## uzziefly (Jul 15, 2006)

MANTEIGA said:


> without doubt one of the worst project one nightmares ever made..... what are those..TEETH!?
> This must be a joke.


It's not really a project one but more of a Kaws' art design thing in collaboration with Lance's efforts etc etc. There was a whole article on it sometime back but I forgot where I even read it from.

I THINK, it was from roadbikeaction.com or something similar.


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## uzziefly (Jul 15, 2006)

saturncyclist said:


> My understanding is that Trek intentionally made black and red frames with the same ride quality. The riders with SRM's use red frames to compensate for the weight of the SRM. At least that was the explanation I heard as to why Levi (using one of the smallest frames) was seen on a red frame.


Ride quality is the same without doubt. The weights are different just like you said.

Levi uses a 54cm actually and it's not one of the smallest. Alberto also uses a 54cm from what I remember. 

I think one or 2 other riders also use that size too, given their heights as well since there are a number of Astana riders at around 5'8"-5'9" from what I know.

Additionally, of course, some of them prefer larger frames and use the 'ride the largest frame they can' method of sizing as it's comfortable for them.

Oh my point is, erm, that Levi's bike ain't one of the smallest for Trek!


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## MANTEIGA (Sep 26, 2008)

*...*



identifiler said:


> Manteiga, this is an original fake by Kaws or a Kaws' original fake. Kaws is all around you and his story is fairly similar to the likes of Shepard Fairey for example or Banksy. As far as taste goes, to each it's own but my old lady knows who he is and thinks your avatar is bad ****... (as in bad ****, you know...).



cheers...


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## DHolmes1 (Dec 17, 2008)

After getting my red series P1, I def believe that the Astana guys have to be on the black series frame.

54 cm Red Series frame (Pro-fit)
Sram Red
XXX bar
XXX brakes
X-Lite Stem
X-Lite aluminum clincher Wheels
Race Lite Cages x2
X-Lite Saddle
Zero Stainless Pedals
Buzzkills

Weighed in at 14.75 lb. I don't see how they could even really run lighter tubulars with the red series frame and red groupset...


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