# Cav going back to the Track?



## pulser955 (Apr 18, 2009)

Maybe this is his out seeing how there really aren't any teams that can support him as a sprinter the way they did on HTC?

Cavendish May Return To Track Racing For 2016 Olympics | Cyclingnews.com


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## vismitananda (Jan 16, 2011)

IMHO, Mark Renshaw is his best tandem in sprints. I would also like to see him return to his roots, were it all began for Mark Cavendish.


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## roddjbrown (Jan 19, 2012)

I don't think it will happen. I think it hurts Cav seeing GB track success when he still has no medal of his own but after the Olympics I'm not sure


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## enzo24 (Jul 8, 2012)

I'd love to see it. I don't really think much of him as a road racer, but he's made for the track. The other guys with his kind of speed all race track.


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## JonF (Apr 7, 2012)

It would be good to see. Would it not cost him financially a fair bit though? Or... could he still race a fair bit on the road?


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## 55x11 (Apr 24, 2006)

enzo24 said:


> I'd love to see it. I don't really think much of him as a road racer, but he's made for the track. The other guys with his kind of speed all race track.


You don't see him much as a road racer?!!!
World champion, more Tour stage wins than any sprinter ever, undefeated on Champs Ulysees, possibly setting new record for Tour stage wins in his future.


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## Frith (Oct 3, 2002)

JonF said:


> It would be good to see. Would it not cost him financially a fair bit though? Or... could he still race a fair bit on the road?


It might cost him a bit in prize money from not entering high profile races and possibly even a bit of sponsorship money but Sky supported Garaint Thomas in his focus on the track for this season. I expect they'd do the same for Cav.


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## gusmahler (Apr 7, 2012)

55x11 said:


> You don't see him much as a road racer?!!!
> World champion, more Tour stage wins than any sprinter ever, undefeated on Champs Ulysees, possibly setting new record for Tour stage wins in his future.


Cav haters are hilarious.


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## Local Hero (Jul 8, 2010)

I like Cav and everything but I don't have high hopes for him sprinting in the 2016 Olympics. 

Sprinting is a young man's game. After four more years of hard racing--including four more le tours--I don't think he'll have the same snap in his legs. I don't want to take anything away from Cav. I'm just being realistic: 2016 is far away. 


Even if Cav were to stop cycling tomorrow he would still be considered one of the greatest sprinters of all times. An athlete can still be considered one of the greatest without an Olympic Gold. Look at boxers Roy Jones Jr and Mike Tyson. Roy Jones clearly outboxed every opponent and took home a controversial silver. Tyson who won at jr Olympics but not big boy Olympics -- as an interesting aside, the winner of the 1984 gold was American Henry Tillman. Where is he now?

On balance, I think the Olympics is a novelty.


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## albert owen (Jul 7, 2008)

World Champion + all those GT stage wins - how many so far? - are absolute proof that Cav is not suited to Road Racing. Give up Mark, you are in the wrong job ;-)


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## biobanker (Jun 11, 2009)

When I think of a great road racer, I think of someone who always makes it into the break, or if they missed the move, someone who bridges or brings the break back. Either those, or someone who takes off alone and dies a thousand times in the wind alone or pedaling up a mountain. 

I love Cav and his long list of massive wins says that he is a fantastic road racer, but when the break has momentum and the peloton can't seem to get traction, and when Cav has the most to gain from bringing them back, he is still hiding in the bunch. 

What bugs me is that the fastest biker in the world is not capable of taking any pulls when he NEEDS to catch the break. Ultimately, he doesn't control his destiny. He depends upon others to ensure it's a bunch sprint. 

Shouldn't great road racers be able to take some pulls?

But clearly Cav is a great road racer and I get a kick out of his no BS talk and his unrelenting loyalty to his team. Go Cav go.


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## Creakyknees (Sep 21, 2003)

When Cav did race on the track, he was not a match sprinter. He raced the "endurance" events such as the Madison and the points race.


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## gusmahler (Apr 7, 2012)

biobanker said:


> What bugs me is that the fastest biker in the world is not capable of taking any pulls when he NEEDS to catch the break. Ultimately, he doesn't control his destiny. He depends upon others to ensure it's a bunch sprint.
> 
> Shouldn't great road racers be able to take some pulls?


Of course he can take pulls when he has to. He was pulling for Wiggins on the flatter parts of the mountain stages.

But you don't seem to understand the concept of team and team leader. Wiggins didn't do much pulling either. Because the team is working for him. When the team is working for Cavendish, they are doing that to conserve Cavendish. You don't conserve your sprinter by making him work. E.g., last year when HTC was solely working for Cav, not only did Cav never take pulls, neither did Renshaw or Goss. Reason? HTC was saving all 3 of them for the sprint. Each one is more than capable of doing the leading, but each session doing that takes away from them at the end.


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## Mike T. (Feb 3, 2004)

biobanker said:


> When I think of a great roard racer, I think of someone who always makes it into the break, or if they missed the move, someone who bridges or brings the break back. Either those, or someone who takes off alone and dies a thousand times in the wind alone or pedaling up a mountain.
> 
> I love Cav and his long list of massive wins says that he is a fantastic road racer, but when the break has momentum and the peloton can't seem to get traction, and when Cav has the most to gain from bringing them back, he is still hiding in the bunch.
> 
> ...


Oh he's not "a great road racer" because he doesn't fit *your* criteria of what one should be? Getting over the line first isn't in your definition?


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## Bill Bikie (Jul 24, 2010)

55x11 said:


> You don't see him much as a road racer?!!!
> World champion, more Tour stage wins than any sprinter ever, undefeated on Champs Ulysees, possibly setting new record for Tour stage wins in his future.


No he's not much of a road rider. All of his wins are sprints. Chipolinni was the best sprinter of his era, but was still versatile. He won classics and sprints on his own. I can't see Cav doing that. Cavandish never goes with a break, can't climb, you rarely saw him help protect Wiggins. He can't change his body type to be more like Sagan or Gilbert, or even Zabal. He's a pure sprinter and should stay on the track.

I would love to have seen Cavandish go with the main break at the Olympic race. He'd have nothing to loose, except the race. Was Yates the director of the Olympic team?


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## cq20 (Mar 24, 2007)

Bill Bikie said:


> *No he's not much of a road rider. All of his wins are sprints. Chipolinni was the best sprinter of his era, but was still versatile. He won classics and sprints on his own. I can't see Cav doing that. * Cavandish never goes with a break, can't climb, you rarely saw him help protect Wiggins. He can't change his body type to be more like Sagan or Gilbert, or even Zabal. He's a pure sprinter and should stay on the track.
> 
> I would love to have seen Cavandish go with the main break at the Olympic race. He'd have nothing to loose, except the race. Was Yates the director of the Olympic team?


So does that mean it wasn't really Cav who won the 2009 Milan-San Remo


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## gusmahler (Apr 7, 2012)

Bill Bikie said:


> I would love to have seen Cavandish go with the main break at the Olympic race. *He'd have nothing to loose, except the race*.


LOL at bolded. Yes. He's a sprinter. In bunch sprints, he wins like 75% of the time. It's in his best interest to race in the way that gives him the best chance of winning. Going with a break isn't that. Especially since the break gets caught 90% of the time. 

Also, as pointed out above. Cav has won single stage classics (Milan-San Remo; world championships), and he's won a multi-day stage race (Ster ZLM Toer). He's won 23 TdF stages, 5 Giro stages, 3 Vuelta stages. He's won the points jersey for both the Vuelta and the TdF, and came in second in the Giro, a single point behind the leader (who happened to be a climber in a points race that favored climbers over sprinters). 

He's the best sprinter out there today and possibly the greatest sprinter ever. For anyone not to realize that is basically just to say "I don't like sprinters."


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## Chainstay (Mar 13, 2004)

Bill Bikie said:


> No he's not much of a road rider. All of his wins are sprints. Chipolinni was the best sprinter of his era, but was still versatile. He won classics and sprints on his own. I can't see Cav doing that. Cavandish never goes with a break, can't climb, you rarely saw him help protect Wiggins. He can't change his body type to be more like Sagan or Gilbert, or even Zabal. He's a pure sprinter and should stay on the track.


Road races are staged to see who finishes first. Races that end in bunch sprints are fantastically exciting so they are popular with most real cycling fans. Cav is the best bunch sprinter so he wins a lot. That's why he races on the road and not the track. That's why he is a big star. 

Sagan and Gilbert are nowhere near Cav in a bunch sprint so why would he want to be slow like they are? Cipo was a pathetic climber and Zabel's career achievements include only 20 grand tour stage wins, some of which were aided by the use of EPO. 

I also feel the need to point out that the names of the sprinters you are attempting to spell are Cavendish, Cipollini and Zabel.


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## Mike T. (Feb 3, 2004)

Bill Bikie said:


> Chipolinni was the best sprinter of his era, but was still versatile. He won classics and sprints on his own.


*Who never finished a Tour de France!*



> I can't see Cav doing that.


That's for sure. *He's finished every one he's entered.*


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## gusmahler (Apr 7, 2012)

Mike T. said:


> *Who never finished a Tour de France!*
> 
> 
> That's for sure. *He's finished every one he's entered.*


Actually, Cav dropped out of the 2008 TdF to concentrate on the Olympics.


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## roddjbrown (Jan 19, 2012)

gusmahler said:


> He's the best sprinter out there today and possibly the greatest sprinter ever. For anyone not to realize that is basically just to say "I don't like sprinters."


^This. If you argue that Cav doesn't get into breakaways then you just don't like the points side of racing. It's like me hating a climber because in a straight race to the line they never win. Or a GC rider because they can win a race despite never crossing the line first.

If you hate sprinters that's fine. If you hate Cav that's fine. But hating Cav for being a sprinter and doing what sprinters do? Ridiculous


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## vismitananda (Jan 16, 2011)

Maybe you should stop watching cycling in "General" because being an absolute leader, esp. in Sprint. Means you just have to wait and blow it all on the finish line. You have your team mates to do their best to put you in a very good position, and that's his job, to sprint. He is paid just to sprint, not to make futile breakaways.

Most of the breakaways succeed is because the peloton just made a mistake, and the guy/s in front of them is a specialist.


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## SFTifoso (Aug 17, 2011)

He's the best pure sprinter ever in the world, but still I would rank Sagan well ahead of him in overall riding quality. Sagan might even be a GC guy in the future. Cav is a one trick pony, but he's damn good at that trick. Unless the main tours are 100% pure mountain stages, there's no reason for him to stop road cycling.


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## gordy748 (Feb 11, 2007)

Cavendish won't go back to the track, there's no money in it. As for him not being a particularly good racer, that's a fair point as long as you concede that, because he is the world champion, the entire peloton must also be pretty rubbish.

I reckon the training he did this year will help him evolve. He did a lot of climbing to prepare for the Olympics but lost none of his speed. I reckon he'll mature into a pretty good classics racer over the next few years.


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## 55x11 (Apr 24, 2006)

SFTifoso said:


> He's the best pure sprinter ever in the world, but still I would rank Sagan well ahead of him in overall riding quality. Sagan might even be a GC guy in the future. Cav is a one trick pony, but he's damn good at that trick. Unless the main tours are 100% pure mountain stages, there's no reason for him to stop road cycling.


Sagan is only better than Cav if you know for sure what will happen to Sagan in the future. Because by every imaginable quantitative metric Cav is much better than Sagan. Of course this is based on facts and past history, rather than projections, hopes and dreams. In that hopes and dreams category Ivan Basso won 7 Tour de Frances, narrow beating Mancebo, Cunego and Karpets on the podium. Meanwhile Zdenek Stybar won Paris Roubaix and Flanders for the past 3 years and Cancellara learned how to climb better than Contador. Also, Tom Danielson.


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## 88 rex (Mar 18, 2008)

55x11 said:


> Sagan is only better than Cav if you know for sure what will happen to Sagan in the future. Because by every imaginable quantitative metric Cav is much better than Sagan.



Well, I don't know what metrics you are using, but as of today (or all season) Sagan has proven that he's pretty darn incredible. Not saying Cav sucks, BUT to say Cav is MUCH better than Sagan is a stretch. Straight up sprints Cav had it.....although Sagan was close. Any undulations and Sagan was still in the mix. Sagan even took chances on breaks. He even won an ITT at Tour de Suisse. I think the kid has more than enough quantifiable results to put him in the top tier of current riders. It takes time to make the "all time" list, but as of today, he will certainly give anyone a run for their money on anything that isn't a super long climb.


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## Bill Bikie (Jul 24, 2010)

*I agree*



88 rex said:


> Well, I don't know what metrics you are using, but as of today (or all season) Sagan has proven that he's pretty darn incredible. Not saying Cav sucks, BUT to say Cav is MUCH better than Sagan is a stretch. Straight up sprints Cav had it.....although Sagan was close. Any undulations and Sagan was still in the mix. Sagan even took chances on breaks. He even won an ITT at Tour de Suisse. I think the kid has more than enough quantifiable results to put him in the top tier of current riders. It takes time to make the "all time" list, but as of today, he will certainly give anyone a run for their money on anything that isn't a super long climb.


I agree, Sagan is the more complete rider even at his young age. Sagan is always very animated in a race, he's all over the place looking for opportunities. Do you think if Sagan were on Sky's Olympic team he would have put up their sticking with a final sprint scenario, even when everyone knew it wasn't working? No way! He would have said, _ _ _ k this, I'm out-a- here! He'd try to make something happen!

He's a good looking kid, personable, and does good interviews. I think Cav would agree that when conditions are right he's the guy to beat, otherwise he's a non factor.

I'm curious as to how Cav would do in match sprints on the track. He's not a big guy, so I think he's have to hit the weight room and bulk up a bit.

Didn't he win Milan San-Remo? And how did he do it? With another lead out train or in a break?


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## gusmahler (Apr 7, 2012)

Bill Bikie said:


> I agree, Sagan is the more complete rider even at his young age. Sagan is always very animated in a race, he's all over the place looking for opportunities. Do you think if Sagan were on Sky's Olympic team he would have put up their sticking with a final sprint scenario, even when everyone knew it wasn't working? No way! He would have said, _ _ _ k this, I'm out-a- here! He'd try to make something happen!


I'm not sure what universe you live in. In the universe I live in, Sagan actually was in the Olympics and finished in the same group as Cavendish.



> Didn't he win Milan San-Remo? And how did he do it? With another lead out train or in a break?


It was a bunch sprint. Here's a 90 minute review of the race.

Milan - San Remo 2009 - Full Highlights with English commentary - YouTube

Fast forward to about 1hr 17min to watch the last 2 km.


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## Creakyknees (Sep 21, 2003)

Bill Bikie said:


> I'm curious as to how Cav would do in match sprints on the track.


Against other pro roadies, pretty good.

Against real track sprinters, blown away.

There is a big difference between Madison / Points races / scratch races vs match sprints.


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## MatParker116 (Aug 22, 2012)

He's targeting the Team Pursuit. The Madison is no longer in the Olympic program and I think he'd struggle in some omnium disciplines. Him, Clancy, Wiggins and another rider could be unreal.


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