# mushy soft campag ergo lever



## pauly555 (Mar 22, 2006)

Hi,
like a previous poster, my right hand ergo shifter went mushy and soft and wouldn't click anymore.

I had a rebuild of sorts but they only replaced the 2 index springs. Not the coil spring. Or anything else. Now it clicks quite happily but is still mushy on some gear changes. Should I have the other springs replaced also? Or is there some other reason why it is STILL soft?

many thanks,
Paul.


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## cvanwink (Aug 31, 2005)

*Got your e-mail -*

anyway - who did the rebuild? - Mine is kind of like friction shifting, and over the last three rides, I have gotten use to it. It is getting worse. On my last ride, I noticed the rd skipping a bit. I think I'll order the parts this weekend, your post has spurred me to action!

Chris


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## pauly555 (Mar 22, 2006)

*Re: Right ergo gone soft*

Hi Chris,

I'm in Melbourne Australia. It was Fitzroy cycles. They also didn't re thread
the new gear cables properly ( it was on the bare frame! ) and they didn't
replace the anti rattle rubber nibs on the cable either. And they didn't
fix the problem. PATHETIC! i would take it back to them but they
DON'T EVEN KNOW WHATS WRONG WITH IT.

They replaced the G springs. That restored the click. But I still find it
REALLY mushy on some gears. Often causing me to accidentally
shift 2 when i want 1 gear shift.

I am trying to get an old broken campy lever so i can teach myself
how they work and how to rebuild them. Then when I do the real one
I can have less down time on the good bike. Any ideas where i can get
one?

It might be the ratchet or little gear inside the lever. I don't know.

So Chris! Do tell me what you do to fix yours. We have exactly the
same annoying problem. If I fix mine before you fix yours I'll let
you and the forum know.


Actually I was just pasting some links i have when i found a good one:

http://www.branfordbike.com/brake/brk01.html#item4

These guys say what to replace:
"We recommend replacing the G springs, Ergo Index gear,
Thumb Button spring and Ergo Coil spring when rebuilding
a right side lever."

mmm. a dead giveaway?

more:

http://www.nuttycyclist.co.uk/cycling/ergo-rebuild.htm
http://www.yellowjersey.org/ergo2.html
http://www.branfordbike.com/brake/brk01.html


Talk to you soon.
Anyone else ideas ?

Pauly.


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## divve (May 3, 2002)

It depends on what you specifically mean by mushy. If you still feel that some clicks are rather soft it may have two possible causes or a combination of both.

1) g-spring carrier wear under the springs resting points
2) index gear worn

When clicks are well defined, but your derailleur appears to move slow or with more than usual resistance up the cassette, the main coil spring at the back may have gone soft.

(the thumb button spring doesn't do much except for returning the thumb button, it will be obvious when that becomes weak)


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## pauly555 (Mar 22, 2006)

*ergo lever*

Thanks !

well i bit the bullet and pulled it to pieces.
and reassembled it about 6 times until i got it right.
AND replaced the coil spring.
Now it seems to be ok!

The clicks were fine but had LESS than usual resistance.
(strange u say would be more ??? )

Now it has proper definate changes. Less mushy.
Although still a bit smooth. But I think this is just campag quality.
This morning on the Melbourne "hell ride" I got every gear I wanted.
So I think it's ok. 

tomorrow i'm going to watch the commonwealth games road race
I'll ride down and test / feel it all again.

PS i used the campag manual and it was good instructions BUT
one item talked about winding up the thumb spring! But I agree 
with your comment that this is only for thumb button return. 
No winding up possible or required.

It feels great to be able to work on this myself and not need 
the bikeshop ! serves them right for denying it was faulty.
now they have no workshop business.

chs,
Paul.


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## divve (May 3, 2002)

The main coil spring in the rear of the shifter assist pulling against the spring of the derailleur. When it's not functioning properly there will be more resistance in the application of the finger lever, and depending on the circumstances, I guess it's also possible to cause mushiness when the derailleur is pulling your shifts back too far due to a weak counter acting coil spring.

....as you've found out it's not always easy to pinpoint the exact cause due to the combination of parts working together 

Good to hear that you were able to fix the problem yourself. Being able to do your own Ergopower maintenance is a rewarding experience.


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## pauly555 (Mar 22, 2006)

*The main coil spring in the...*

Hi divve,

I'm sure it's better. But I'm not sure I understand why. 

When in low gear ( large cog ) the coil is unraveled.
When in high gear ( small cog ) the coil is wound up.

So when you click the finger shifter ( ie go to low gear ) 
the coil works to force with you. Not against you. It's only 
against you when you work the thumb shifter. It's then 
that you are winding it up. And I think this is consistent 
with what you were saying.

So therefore how can a better coil spring solve my 
WEAK , mushy , soft feeling? It makes sense that it 
would do the opposite? If it was a stronger spring 
going with you there should be even less resistance
in the feeling.

Accordingly now that it's "fixed" I don't really notice it's
"harder". ie it's still pretty soft, BUT I always get every 
gear i want so in effect it's solved and works. I think so 
anyway. I'll have a more definate picture after a couple
of weeks. 

I think maybe that simply the new G srpings and and a clean
and putting it back together with love cured it? I dunno.

Certainly when at first i just had the G springs done it was clicking
properly but it was still mushy and missed gears. Now with another
rebuild and a new coil spring it seems to work. I have actually 
suspected the spring at the front to be at fault. But this has NOT 
been replaced.

Mechanical engineering and trying to understand how these
interacting parts work is Not Damn Easy!


cheers,
Paul.


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## pauly555 (Mar 22, 2006)

*ergo*

Hi divve,

I'm sure it's better. But I'm not sure I understand why.

When in low gear ( large cog ) the coil is unraveled.
When in high gear ( small cog ) the coil is wound up.

So when you click the finger shifter ( ie go to low gear )
the coil works to force with you. Not against you. It's only
against you when you work the thumb shifter. It's then
that you are winding it up. And I think this is consistent
with what you were saying.

So therefore how can a better coil spring solve my
WEAK , mushy , soft feeling? It makes sense that it
would do the opposite? If it was a stronger spring
going with you there should be even less resistance.

Accordingly now that it's "fixed" I don't really notice it's
"harder". ie it's still pretty soft, BUT I always get every
gear i want so in effect it's solved and works. I think so
anyway. I'll have a more definite picture after a couple
of weeks. Why do you think it's better now?

I think maybe that simply the new G springs and and a clean
and putting it back together with love cured it? I dunno.

Certainly when at first i just had the G springs done it was clicking
properly but it was still mushy and missed gears. Now with another
rebuild and a new coil spring it seems to work. I have actually
suspected the spring at the front to be at fault. But this has NOT
been replaced.

Mechanical engineering and trying to understand how these
interacting parts work is Not Damn Easy!

Agree also that simply the ability to get into the shifter and
do it yourself is a HUGELY good feeling.


cheers,
Paul.


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## pauly555 (Mar 22, 2006)

*double reply.*

ps

Sorry for 2 replies.

the f****g browser said that the first one didn't work. 
but it did. !!!!!!!

the second one is slightly different.

p.


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## cvanwink (Aug 31, 2005)

*Pulled mine apart yesterday..*

Everything came apart real easy, ordered the parts from Branford. I'm guessing its the g-springs in my case - everything else looks good. I'll update after the rebuild.
Chris


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## divve (May 3, 2002)

Paul, it depends on what defect is specifically causing the mushiness. Let's say you have no coil spring at all, then the derailleur force will have the tendency to pull back your finger lever shift to a lighter gear. This in itself may cause a sensation of not indexing accurately.

If your indexing still feels soft, you may be able to slightly improve things with a new g-spring carrier. At worst your index gear is beginning to show wear.

(I have the same thing on one of my old 2003 levers. The index gear is worn at the high gears to the extent that the coil spring will pull it out of the gears when no derailleur is attached. For the remainder it works fine, it's just a little soft there.)

The spring at the front (finger lever), is only there to return the lever.


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## Bocephus Jones II (Oct 7, 2004)

pauly555 said:


> Hi,
> like a previous poster, my right hand ergo shifter went mushy and soft and wouldn't click anymore.
> 
> I had a rebuild of sorts but they only replaced the 2 index springs. Not the coil spring. Or anything else. Now it clicks quite happily but is still mushy on some gear changes. Should I have the other springs replaced also? Or is there some other reason why it is STILL soft?
> ...


If you get stumped...Peter at Vecchios is the man for Campy rebuilds--he repaired my Chorus shifter and I think it cost all of $30. 

http://vecchios.com/


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## Spunout (Aug 12, 2002)

Nice, to be have Vecchio's as your LBS. Never been there, but read about it often.

FWIW, if you are going to take the time to open up your ergolever, replace all (relevant) springs (2 G springs and the coil) while you're in there. Worth it. I find the index gear does not wear at all.


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## Bocephus Jones II (Oct 7, 2004)

Spunout said:


> Nice, to be have Vecchio's as your LBS. Never been there, but read about it often.
> 
> FWIW, if you are going to take the time to open up your ergolever, replace all (relevant) springs (2 G springs and the coil) while you're in there. Worth it. I find the index gear does not wear at all.


Yeah...Peter can be a bit cantankerous, but he knows his stuff. I do 99% of all my work myself these days, but it's nice to have them there if I get stuck or don't want to spend my afternoon trying to do a certain repair.


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## divve (May 3, 2002)

Spunout said:


> Nice, to be have Vecchio's as your LBS. Never been there, but read about it often.
> 
> FWIW, if you are going to take the time to open up your ergolever, replace all (relevant) springs (2 G springs and the coil) while you're in there. Worth it. I find the index gear does not wear at all.


It indeed wears very slow and it's difficult to inspect with the bare eye. When I had the shifter apart I swapped it out for a new one just for a test. The indexing definitely became more pronounced or harder so to speak, but I didn't think it was worth replacing as it still works fine on the bike with the original index gear.


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## divve (May 3, 2002)

pauly555 said:


> So therefore how can a better coil spring solve my
> WEAK , mushy , soft feeling? It makes sense that it
> would do the opposite? If it was a stronger spring
> going with you there should be even less resistance.


Paul, I just finished servicing another shifter and took closer look at what's happening inside. I've found that in addition to assisting the finger lever or gear pull, the coil spring also causes the g-spring carrier to return with more snap. That probably better explains the improved feel with a properly functioning spring.


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## pauly555 (Mar 22, 2006)

*ergo stuff*

Divve,

thanks. brilliant that would explain it. 
the best thing is that now i can do it myself. if i'm not happy then
i can just replace any part i want any time i want without relying
on the bike shop to waste my time and money.

i wonder sometimes when i start doing something like this if i get 
too perfectionistic. i can't say if it's 100% fixed but if it's working
adequately and lots better than before then i can cool off.

i put grease on all the parts in reassembly. which just makes it 
smoother! but it selects well. up and down. so is ok.

sometimes in the heat of battle ( like a sit on the rivit training bunch )
I might miss a gear and go up or down 2 instead of one. but that's 
when i'm not sure i'm getting too prefectionistic. like there are limits 
to even campag record when the going gets really tough. then i wonder
if i am expecting too much. ?

anyway. will monitor the situation.

chs,
P.


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## cvanwink (Aug 31, 2005)

*Thumb spring help needed*

OK - got the parts and starting to re-assemble. What is the proper procedure to get the thumb spring in? Where does the long end go? I figure it goes in the slot in the index gear, then up against the left side of the lever body in the hole. So do you put the spring in first then attatch the thumb lever, or attatch the spring to the thumb lever first then thread the whole thing down into the index gear? I have had the most success placing the spring in, then attaching the lever and kind of winding it into place. HELP!


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## pauly555 (Mar 22, 2006)

see :

http://www.yellowjersey.org/ergo1.html

is best.

sounds like you got it right though. spring first then thumb lever. 
hook the spring dick in the hole. then twist it around to seat the 
lever in the index. 

then you click the finger shift to the other end.
then you out on the coil.

read the campag manual in the URL. it's good.

pauly


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## cvanwink (Aug 31, 2005)

*Rebuild Results*

Sorry to keep reviving this thread, but I wanted to post my results.
I also had to rebuild it about 5 times - to get it right. A couple things got me.

1. - I missed the washer stuck to the back of the index gear when I put in the new one. No excuses.
2. On winding up the coil - the more you wind it the less clicks of the lever you get. I wound about 1/2 turn. 
3. I found the yellow jersey manual to be good, campys manual is not real good, so a combination of everything I read was usefull. Thank you to all who posted and provided assistance.


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## divve (May 3, 2002)

The coil:
-shift to the lowest gear using finger lever
-insert center end of the coil in the skinny slot of the spring retainer (slot should be at around 5 o'clock).
-wind coil CW until you can hook it onto the g-spring carrier tab.


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## covrc (Mar 27, 2004)

*repair or replace*

Hi All,
Great information, thanks for it.

How does one decide to rebuild vs replace the whole shifter? and if I am replacing, do I do both?

My Chorus 9 ( has carbon BB-system written on the brake lever in white font) how can I tell what year Chorus 9 this is? I bought the bike in 2001.
I have approx, 14K miles on the group and now when going hard up a hill, it downshifts. I had new cables, chain rings and casette this past july. If I maintain a little pressure on the Right shifter as I climb, it doesnt skip. 
LBS in Boston say the shifter is 'shot' ( the rachet is worn ) and I should replace or rebuild. Cost for rebuild is around $80. 
Looking for a some direction from those with more wisdom than I.
Thanks covrc


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## divve (May 3, 2002)

Difficult to tell what's worn without seeing the parts. In my neck of the woods the g-springs + carrier are around $10 I think and the index wheel/ratchet about $35. The latter doesn't wear much however.

If your levers are still in good condition rebuilding is well worth it regardless of what's worn inside. Your shifter will be as good as new afterward.


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