# TOC observations



## Gnarly 928 (Nov 19, 2005)

If I hear "Beast of a climb" again I think I'll throw up. 

Bob Roll: He's become a pretty good TV guy. When he began commentating, he was amusing, in a cute sort of way with his miss-pronunciations and his goofy looks but this TOC he's been really sharp. He seems to get along with the riders well. He was getting good stuff as the 'roving interviewer' I thought that was really funny as Horner came in for the Post Baldy interview...how he did a double-take...with the two of them and their Cue-ball heads...

Horner: He's 'something' He certainly comes across on TV. Such a refreshing change to see a rider who 'appears' to be a nice guy, who seems to mean it when he 'thanks' his team, etc. I think it's fun to watch a winning rider and think.."Hey, he seems pretty normal. He might actually be fun to be around." Lots of top riders we 'excuse' their nasty behavior, thinking.."Well, at least he is a good bike racer, despite being a prick" 

Zabriskie: He's a pleasure to see when he Time Trials. Such a smooth rider.

Phinney: He seems a little "Full of himself" the way he comes across in public. He must be listening to Paul and Phil and reading Bicycling magazine. Whoopie! all the hype but he rode poorly.

The Organizers: Good job with this race. I'd like to see them get some 'serious' participants, however, from Europe, rather just pay some Big Names to come and ride their race like a CicloSportif or a Grand Fondue. Shleck seemed to just be 'phoning it in'...no 'engagement' from him. He wasn't worth the money. Voight: His wrist break, that's so unfortunate. Painful and slow healing.


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## ilmaestro (May 3, 2008)

As long as the ToC competes with the Giro, I'm not sure that they'd ever get the top riders. Am I wrong, or did they have even more top riders in previous years when it was run in February?


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## Gnarly 928 (Nov 19, 2005)

ilmaestro said:


> As long as the ToC competes with the Giro, I'm not sure that they'd ever get the top riders. Am I wrong, or did they have even more top riders in previous years when it was run in February?


 Yeah, TOC is still small stuff compared to what goes in Europe. Watching some Giro this a.m. I was taken by the sheer volumn of work that goes into doing stage races like that... All those crowd-control panels, the amazing amount of "stuff" they set out along the course...all to be moved again from A to B to C to...every night after the day's stage is done.

I think the TOC organizers are making progress..That Baldy stage hopefully will be a staple of the race in future years..and the Tahoe one would have been pretty special if the spring snowstorm had missed..

I don't see a huge contingent of top riders doing the Giro, though. Seems a little thin on big names...and I can see why, with the TDF looming, those guys who want to have a chance there...riding the Giro is pushing it for them...


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## jsedlak (Jun 17, 2008)

The ToC has been exciting this year, much more so than the Giro. Horner is a very charismatic guy who, it seems, is having an absolute blast. You don't get that from Contador or Nibali.


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## coop (Jun 8, 2008)

We'll have to see in July, but this years Giro seems way too hard for someone to be thinking about doing the double. Today's stage was carnage.

If the Giro keeps pushing the edge you may see more top riders coming to California if their primary focus is the TDF.

Best bet for California is to keep it between 7-9 days, maybe alternate between a prologue and a TTT every other year, and go into Orange and San Diego Counties some more.


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## theBreeze (Jan 7, 2002)

Gnarly 928 said:


> If I hear "Beast of a climb" again I think I'll throw up.
> 
> Bob Roll: He's become a pretty good TV guy. When he began commentating, he was amusing, in a cute sort of way with his miss-pronunciations and his goofy looks but this TOC he's been really sharp. He seems to get along with the riders well. He was getting good stuff as the 'roving interviewer' I thought that was really funny as Horner came in for the Post Baldy interview...how he did a double-take...with the two of them and their Cue-ball heads...
> 
> ...


Well aren't you just the "voice" of authority. Glad you got it all "straightened" out for us. Otherwise we wouldn't know what to "think". Did I use my "quotes" correctly?"

I've met Taylor Phinney and you could hardly ask for a more down-to-earth and well-spoken young man. He is 20 years old, placed in the top 10 in three (I think) sprint stages right along side many more experienced riders. Held second in the TT until the last dozen or so riders. He isn't a stage racer yet, and may never be. He's more along the line of a Cancellara style rider. And has stated that classics and TT's will probably be his specialty. He has won the U23 version of Paris-Roubaix twice.


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## Creakyknees (Sep 21, 2003)

I would also like to ride a Grand Fondue.


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## cda 455 (Aug 9, 2010)

theBreeze said:


> Well aren't you just the "voice" of authority. Glad you got it all "straightened" out for us. Otherwise we wouldn't know what to "think". Did I use my "quotes" correctly?"


What's with the attitude  ???


Did you get sand in your mangina?


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## stevesbike (Jun 3, 2002)

Gnarly 928 said:


> If I hear "Beast of a climb" again I think I'll throw up.
> 
> 
> ...Grand Fondue...


is that some kind of meal you have while waiting for the racers to pass by?


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## alexb618 (Aug 24, 2006)

jsedlak said:


> The ToC has been exciting this year, much more so than the Giro.


maybe the giro is not broadcast in your area. it has been amazing thus far, particularly stage 15 which was incredible


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## cda 455 (Aug 9, 2010)

alexb618 said:


> maybe the giro is not broadcast in your area. it has been amazing thus far, particularly stage 15 which was incredible


The last 5km was incredible!

I'm still waiting for the full results and see if anyone was eliminated due to time cut off. 

7+hrs before the first rider crossed the finish line  !


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## ronbo613 (Jan 19, 2009)

Horner is a good rider and a good dude, I'm glad he won. Plus, it was a team effort that helped him win, so "let's all pull together" and win for the team was cool as well.
Sure, Stage 15 of the Giro was awesome, but Euro racing has a 20-30 year head start on American stage racing. Tour of California, Mt. Hood Classic, Cascade Classic; we got mountains, we got weather, we got cycling fans, give these races a few years to grow and we'll see....


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## theBreeze (Jan 7, 2002)

Just responding to the OP's "attitude."

This is why I generally avoid this forum. All the armchair quarterbacking.

Oh, and I have an actual vagina. Jealous?


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## cda 455 (Aug 9, 2010)

theBreeze said:


> Just responding to the OP's "attitude."
> 
> This is why I generally avoid this forum. All the armchair quarterbacking.
> 
> Oh, and I have an actual vagina. Jealous?


Interesting.


I interpreted the OP as just what he titled his thread: _An ob-ser-va-tion. 

_Nothing more and nothing less. 


You clearly came across as smug and pompous; IMO/observation.


But hey; This is the internet  .


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## moonmoth (Nov 8, 2008)

Where The Shack, especially Chris Horner, celebrates. Heck, they earned it, fer sure:


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## 55x11 (Apr 24, 2006)

moonmoth said:


> Where The Shack, especially Chris Horner, celebrates. Heck, they earned it, fer sure:



this photo is HILARIOUS!


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## ukbloke (Sep 1, 2007)

Dear Johann,

If you're going to pick an aging American geezer for GC for the Tour de France, you might as well pick the one who has been winning the GC in stage races this last couple of years. And you know that picking 4 team leaders for GC isn't really going to work, right? Every dog has its day.

Yours,

Chris H.


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## moonmoth (Nov 8, 2008)

ukbloke said:


> Dear Johann,
> 
> If you're going to pick an aging American geezer for GC for the Tour de France, you might as well pick the one who has been winning the GC in stage races this last couple of years. And you know that picking 4 team leaders for GC isn't really going to work, right? Every dog has its day.


Chris Horner will be on the Shack TdF team for sure, barring some type of injury. This is a done deal and it would not surprise me if he is anointed "team leader" over Kloden and Leipheimer. The bigger suspense will be whether Matt Busche also gets the TdF call, after his stellar performances at Basque and ATOC.


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## rubbersoul (Mar 1, 2010)

Respect, to Horner, but he will get schooled in July


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## ohvrolla (Aug 2, 2009)

Real happy for Horner, and surely he'll be the team leader come TdF time. I mean who would you rather have doing an interview, Horner or Leipheimer? Exactly.


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## imjps (Feb 15, 2005)

rubbersoul said:


> Respect, to Horner, but he will get schooled in July


I guess placing 10th overall last July means nothing?

BR


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## albert owen (Jul 7, 2008)

The ToC was a lot more entertaining this year. I watched quite a lot of it and didn't feel like killing myself once.
So - it has gone up from a Really Boring Rating to Not Too Bad Rating.


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## BassNBrew (Aug 4, 2008)

albert owen said:


> The ToC was a lot more entertaining this year. I watched quite a lot of it and didn't feel like killing myself once.
> So - it has gone up from a Really Boring Rating to Not Too Bad Rating.


Not if we could just get it moved to a time where they could still draw a strong field and not have it concurrent with the Giro. As it stands now, it's like taking the two Super Bowl teams, splitting their rosters in half, and then playing two games at the same time.


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## BassNBrew (Aug 4, 2008)

Personal opinion here, but I liked the shorter climbing stages. I like to see the contenders mixing it up right from the get go and not riding 100 miles in a group before getting to the meat of the stage. Obviously that makes it tougher for breakaways to stay away, but I like seeing the GC contenders win the stage, not finish 2rd or 3rd to lesser riders who ran up an advantage during feed stations and natural breaks.


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## BassNBrew (Aug 4, 2008)

Did anyone else see the Garmin rider getting towed to the back to the group on one of the stage 7 climbs by his car? Versus was showing a Radioshack rider getting drinks along side his team car when the Garmin car went flying by with a rider holding onto the mirror. Is this a common occurence? 

It must be a huge advantage to the breakaway riders to get bottles handed to them. At the pace these guys climb, I don't see how a domestique can drop back on a climb to whereever the team car is, load up on bottles, and then get all the way back up front.


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## Gnarly 928 (Nov 19, 2005)

theBreeze said:


> Just responding to the OP's "attitude."
> 
> This is why I generally avoid this forum. All the armchair quarterbacking.
> 
> ...


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## traumabill (Sep 16, 2007)

In-and-Out Burger happens to be a fave of Horner, seem to remember Levi or LA stating after one of the previous ToC's that Horner skipped the team dinner infavor of InO Burger and came back for his massage...


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## JSR (Feb 27, 2006)

moonmoth said:


> Where The Shack, especially Chris Horner, celebrates. Heck, they earned it, fer sure:


That is funny. FWIW - the town's oldest, biggest bike shop is located directly behind that In-n-out.



albert owen said:


> The ToC was a lot more entertaining this year. I watched quite a lot of it and didn't feel like killing myself once.
> So - it has gone up from a Really Boring Rating to Not Too Bad Rating.


I'm not sure what it takes to please you. IMHO this race was well-balance for sprint, TT, and mountain racing. North American teams flogging themselves to prove their worthiness to ride alongside PT stars. Plenty of crowds with knowledgable fans located in key places, if perhaps some of them trying too hard to gain your approval. Organization now sophisticated enough to turn on a dime as weather and condition demand, while also successfully accomplishing challenging mountain-top finsihes.



BassNBrew said:


> Not if we could just get it moved to a time where they could still draw a strong field and not have it concurrent with the Giro. As it stands now, it's like taking the two Super Bowl teams, splitting their rosters in half, and then playing two games at the same time.


Andy Messick is quoted this morning saying they will not change any of this. He believes it is important to assure the Continental teams have access to top races in North America, and he still likes the May slot as the alternative race for TdF aspirants. 

Given the success of AToC so far, I'm inclined to trust his judement. Remebering back six years ago there was only the Tour of Georgia providing a stage for top talent, but it was always on shaky financial ground. AEG has done an outstanding job of providing a stable platform for sponsors, while also gaining traction with potential host cities in California. Solavang balked last year and immediately regretted not having pursued a stage. 

The big questions now are whether the US market can support the Colorado race equally well, and can the Canadian PT races turn into something hot. If there were three successful races/series then the time would be ripe for a PT-class stage race.

JSR


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## Gnarly 928 (Nov 19, 2005)

traumabill said:


> In-and-Out Burger happens to be a fave of Horner, seem to remember Levi or LA stating after one of the previous ToC's that Horner skipped the team dinner infavor of InO Burger and came back for his message...



And what was the message? Kidding here...


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## mohair_chair (Oct 3, 2002)

ilmaestro said:


> Am I wrong, or did they have even more top riders in previous years when it was run in February?


I definitely think they had better riders when it was in February. Tom Boonen, Paolo Bettini, Ivan Basso, Stuart O'Grady, Cadel Evans, Gilberto Simoni, Paolo Savoldelli, Thomas Voeckler, etc. Hell, even Mario Cipollini came out of retirement!


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## ukbloke (Sep 1, 2007)

I wonder if they can stretch out the ToC to 2 weeks in the future? The current 8 days just seems too short to pack everything in, and they could cut down on some of those transfers. There's certainly enough terrain around here for choosing interesting stages. They could even pop over the border into Nevada (Las Vegas anyone?). It would come down to finding enough sponsoring cities and convincing the teams to stay for an extra week.


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## cda 455 (Aug 9, 2010)

moonmoth said:


> Where The Shack, especially Chris Horner, celebrates. Heck, they earned it, fer sure:


That is super awesome!


I miss In-N-Out Burger  .


My meal (In two parts):

A) Double-Double Combo straight up.

B) Double-Double Combo with Animal-Style fries and a 4X4 burger :thumbsup: !


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