# High spoke count disadvantages?



## ischgl99 (May 22, 2011)

I am looking into upgrading my Bontrager SSR wheels that came with my bike, haven't had any problems with them yet, but have heard many comments that a better wheelset will significantly improve the ride quality, especially with these low end wheels, and since I live in a very hilly area, something lighter can't hurt. Besides, I needed an idea for a present for my 10th anniversary since my wife refuses to buy me anything for my other hobbies 

While doing research and reading many posts here in the forums, I have seen many comments about not going too low on the spoke count due to stiffness and spoke breakage problems, but I don't think I have ever seen anyone mention if there are any disadvantages to going with a higher spoke count other then increased weight and a slight aero penalty. I'm looking at the Boyd Vittesse and Veloicty A23 Comp build then saw the Velocity A23 with Ultegra hubs on a different website at a cheaper price, but they only come in 32/32. So my question is, if a rim is rated by the builder as suitable for someone of my weight (195 lbs) with a spoke count of 24f/28r, would there be any other disadvantages of going with 32/32?


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## Mike T. (Feb 3, 2004)

No disadvantage at all except for unmeasurable negative effects of extra weight and extra drag. The gain will be big in terms of peace of mind.


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## bikerjulio (Jan 19, 2010)

as someone of comparable mass to OP I'd agree with Mike.

Most of my wheels are 32 spoke. I have paid more attention to tire and tube weight (200 + 50), rim weight and spoke weight in that order before hub weight.

The few extra spokes are well worth it.


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## ischgl99 (May 22, 2011)

Thanks for your feedback guys! Peace of mind is certainly a good thing, especially here in the Northeast with our crappy roads.


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## looigi (Nov 24, 2010)

Mike T. said:


> No disadvantage at all except for unmeasurable negative effects of extra weight and extra drag. The gain will be big in terms of peace of mind.


Agree but left out one of the most important factors, high spoke count is uncool. It's a slippery slope. What's next; dork disk, seat bag, frame pump, glasses mounted mirror...?


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## Mike T. (Feb 3, 2004)

looigi said:


> Agree but left out one of the most important factors, high spoke count is uncool. It's a slippery slope. What's next; dork disk, seat bag, frame pump, glasses mounted mirror...?


Agree but left out spoke reflectors, upturned handlebars, stickie-out feet................


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## MShaw (Jun 7, 2003)

I train on 32/32 wheels pretty much all the time. Only break out the light/aero stuff if I'm going on a group ride.

My favorite wheelset is a Mavic 501* hubset with Reflex Ceramic rims that were built for a buddy of mine many many years ago. Still round and true. 

M


*rr hub was changed out to a cassette hub when I went 9sp


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## BWWpat (Dec 17, 2009)

looigi said:


> Agree but left out one of the most important factors, high spoke count is uncool. It's a slippery slope. What's next; dork disk, seat bag, frame pump, glasses mounted mirror...?



..... What do you have against dork disk? I am going to get a sleek new one and paint it red so it makes my bike go faster. Who is the dork now? huh? HUH!?




Mike T. said:


> Agree but left out spoke reflectors, upturned handlebars, stickie-out feet................


YOU LEFT OUT PURPLE BELLS!


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## Mike T. (Feb 3, 2004)

BWWpat said:


> ..... What do you have against dork disk? I am going to get a sleek new one and paint it red so it makes my bike go faster. Who is the dork now? huh? HUH!?


Ferrari red?  Yeah I'd like on of those. But how about a carbon fiber one? I think if someone came up with those and specd them to cassette sizes they would sell lots.



> YOU LEFT OUT PURPLE BELLS!


I think I've still got a bag of Spokey-Dokes from when my kids were small. I'll dig 'em out fer ya Pat  They were cool.


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## BWWpat (Dec 17, 2009)

Mike T. said:


> I think I've still got a bag of Spokey-Dokes from when my kids were small. I'll dig 'em out fer ya Pat  They were cool


where did you get this picture of our new prototype?
The beads are an aerospace design that is used to propel the wheel back into the future if you can reach 88mph.


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## Mike T. (Feb 3, 2004)

BWWpat said:


> where did you get this picture of our new prototype?


I TOLD you I'd hacked your site but did you believe me? Nooooooo! 



> The beads are an aerospace design that is used to propel the wheel back into the future if you can reach 88mph.


 I guess they would add weight at the rim at it's lower portion thus providing downward thrust and more traction - kinda like a race car spoiler.


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## Mapei (Feb 3, 2004)

Disadvantages: 

1. The wheels are more difficult to clean. When you wipe off your rims, you can only go about two inches without hitting a spoke.

2. It's harder to get the pump head onto the valve stem because you have to maneuver around those damn spokes.


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## sanrensho (Jan 2, 2003)

The disadvantage is that squirrels and robins will bounce off your front wheel instead of getting through and potentially busting your fork/face.

Seriously though, the only penalties are a bit of extra weight and no need for a taxi if you break a spoke.


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## Mike T. (Feb 3, 2004)

sanrensho said:


> The disadvantage is that squirrels and robins will bounce off your front wheel instead of getting through and potentially busting your fork/face.


I was gonna mention the problems with jay-runnin' squirrels not passing through as easily but you already did it.


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## ischgl99 (May 22, 2011)

Funny you mention squirrels, on my lunch ride today a car coming the other way scared a ground squirrel and I just missed running over its tail as it tried to reach the side of the road. I'm not worried so much about the squirrels around here, its the deer that jump across the road without warning that worry me.

So let's see if I am uncool enough to use 32 spoke wheels
dork disk, check
saddlebag, check
frame pump, check
short, fat and bald, check
mismatched clothes, check

Looks like it's 32 spoke wheels for me!



> 2. It's harder to get the pump head onto the valve stem because you have to maneuver around those damn spokes.


That's a good point, never would have thought about that.


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## Kuma601 (Jan 22, 2004)

If you really want to push boundaries, 36 spokes somewhere around 14 gauge. Leave the valve stem nut and cap on as well.


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## Mike T. (Feb 3, 2004)

ischgl99 said:


> Funny you mention squirrels, on my lunch ride today a car coming the other way scared a ground squirrel and I just missed running over its tail as it tried to reach the side of the road. I'm not worried so much about the squirrels around here, its the deer that jump across the road without warning that worry me.


I've seen a couple of pics on the net that show the outcome of squirrels running into the spokes. The squirrel get jammed up behind the fork crown and the rider does an impromptu Superman impersonation PDQ.



> That's a good point, never would have thought about that.


Harder getting the pump head on?  Anyone would think they were 144 spoke wheels fer gawd's sake -


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## DS1239622 (Mar 21, 2007)

Kuma601 said:


> If you really want to push boundaries, 36 spokes somewhere around 14 gauge. Leave the valve stem nut and cap on as well.


Just ordered anodized blue aluminun valve stem caps from Asia for $3.78 shipped to exponentially increase my coolness factor. Im expecting an average speed increase of at least 3mph, especially into the wind, due to the quantum physics surrounding these blue beacons of badassery.


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## BWWpat (Dec 17, 2009)

DS1239622 said:


> Just ordered anodized blue aluminun valve stem caps from Asia for $3.78 shipped to exponentially increase my coolness factor. Im expecting an average speed increase of at least 3mph, especially into the wind, due to the quantum physics surrounding these blue beacons of badassery.


Ouch man, I hate to be the one that breaks it to you but red is the color that gives you speed, blue is a smoother ride. There is still time, if you grab some red markers or crayons you may be able to at least turn it purple, giving you a middle ground effect.

Good luck,
Pat


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## DS1239622 (Mar 21, 2007)

sanrensho said:


> The disadvantage is that squirrels and robins will bounce off your front wheel instead of getting through and potentially busting your fork/face.


I must have been lucky. Had a raccoon bounce off my rear spokes as it lunged, fanged bared, towards my ankle and Im only running a 20 spoke rear.


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## Mike T. (Feb 3, 2004)

DS1239622 said:


> I must have been lucky. Had a raccoon bounce off my rear spokes as it lunged


Did its nose get julienned? It would have with CX-Rays.


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## Samadhi (Nov 1, 2011)

Mike T. said:


> Ferrari red? .


If we're talking cool, and "Ferrari red" then you'd better refer to it by it's proper name - Rosso Corsa ("Racing Red"). 

Otherwise you will appear to be a Complete Doofous. I'm certain you are not, in truth, a Complete Doofous, but we can't have you appearing to be one, either.

This color dates back to the earliest days of Formula One when cars were colored according to team nationality. Italy was red, so Ferraris were red. After rules changes after 1967, cars could be any color, but Ferrari stayed with Rosso Corsa.

Thus endeth the history lesson.


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## ischgl99 (May 22, 2011)

Mike T. said:


> I've seen a couple of pics on the net that show the outcome of squirrels running into the spokes. The squirrel get jammed up behind the fork crown and the rider does an impromptu Superman impersonation PDQ.


I've seen those pictures too, we have the small ground squirrels not much bigger then a gerbil here and thought it might not be as bad if one of those got jammed up in the spokes, but maybe I'm wrong and it would be just as bad as the bigger ones. Either way I hope not to ever find out.


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## Mike T. (Feb 3, 2004)

Samadhi said:


> Otherwise you will appear to be a Complete Doofous. I'm certain you are not, in truth, a Complete Doofous, but we can't have you appearing to be one, either.


Oh I'm a complete doofus when it comes to the reds of Ferrari. But I ain't when it comes to the reds of Corvette. This is *Torch Red*; I should know - it'sa mine! -


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## Kerry Irons (Feb 25, 2002)

*On redness*



Samadhi said:


> If we're talking cool, and "Ferrari red" then you'd better refer to it by it's proper name - Rosso Corsa ("Racing Red").
> 
> Otherwise you will appear to be a Complete Doofous. I'm certain you are not, in truth, a Complete Doofous, but we can't have you appearing to be one, either.
> 
> ...


But do you know why fire trucks are red? Here's why:

A fire truck has 8 wheels and 4 riders. 8 and 4 make 12. There's twelve inches in a foot. A foot makes a ruler. Queen Elizabet is a ruler. Queen Elizabeth sales the seas. There's fish in the sea. Fish have fins. The Finns fought the Russians. Russians are Reds. Fire trucks are always rushin'. And that's why fire trucks are red.


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## Mike T. (Feb 3, 2004)

Kerry Irons said:


> But do you know why fire trucks are red? Here's why:
> A fire truck has 8 wheels and 4 riders. 8 and 4 make 12. There's twelve inches in a foot. A foot makes a ruler. Queen Elizabet is a ruler. Queen Elizabeth sales the seas. There's fish in the sea. Fish have fins. The Finns fought the Russians. Russians are Reds. Fire trucks are always rushin'. And that's why fire trucks are red.


OMG I was a firefighter for 31 years and NEVER heard that one. 

Once, during daily school at the station, the captain asked an open-ended question - "Fire trucks must be........................"

The answers ranged from "Full of fuel" to "Red" and everywhere in between. He was so disgusted and pi$$ed off by our uncontrolled laughter he never did give us the answer he had in mind.


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## QQUIKM3 (Apr 20, 2008)

*I have a number of wheelsets. .*

From carbon 50mm deep aeros. . . to very basic. My favorite "go to" wheelset is a pair of DT Swiss 465s with DT240s, laced 32/32, 3X with brass nipples and DT Revolutions all around. It's plenty stiff, plenty light and is also extremely comfortable over the miles of "chip seal" roads that I ride.


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