# Spacers



## redondoaveb

When I built my '08 Opal I left 3cm's of spacers below my stem. I'd like to remove a couple of them but don't want to cut the steerer tube yet. I could have sworn there was a tag on my forks that showed not to install spacers above the stem yet I see pictures of other members Orbea's on other threads with spacers installed above the stem.

What do you guys think? Do you think 2 cm's would be fine?


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## scottzj

Well on my 2010 Opal, I dropped mine one spacer down for a tad more aggressive stance. However, I don't feel that cutting mine is an option.......esp for resale. Thats the main issue with cutting the fork, is you are limiting who can purchase your bike...."if" you decide to sell it. The other possibility is purchase another fork (like the orca, as it gives the opal a more comfortable feel) and then cut it as you see fit, then replace the factory one if you sell it.


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## redondoaveb

Hey Scott,

Obviously you haven't had any issues with the one spacer above your stem. I wasn't going to cut mine either, I was just planning on leaving the one cm of steerer tube exposed. Maybe I'll go ahead and move the spacer above like you did.

Thanks for the input.


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## rcharrette

I wouldn't hesitate to move a spacer above. If anything you are giving the stem a better clamping area.


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## redondoaveb

rcharrette said:


> I wouldn't hesitate to move a spacer above. If anything you are giving the stem a better clamping area.


I normally wouldn't hesitate either but some manufacturers don't recommend it (and I thought Orbea was one of them). I might have to email Orbea USA to clarify unless someone knows for sure its ok.


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## rcharrette

I'd like to know what you come up with as I'm an Orbea dealer and have never heard anything about this with them or any other bike manufacturer. The only issue i've heard of is Trek steer tubes snapping because they *did not *have a spacer above the stem. 
I've never hear of an issue from anyone with putting a spacer above. It makes no sense??


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## redondoaveb

rcharrette said:


> I'd like to know what you come up with as I'm an Orbea dealer and have never heard anything about this with them or any other bike manufacturer. The only issue i've heard of is Trek steer tubes snapping because they *did not *have a spacer above the stem.
> I've never hear of an issue from anyone with putting a spacer above. It makes no sense??


As a quick example, here is a Specialized PDF for their carbon fork installation. At the bottom left of the page it says "Warning! Do not permanently place stem spacers above the stem. Placing spacers above the stem defeats the purpose of the expander plugs ability to support the steerer tube and stem".

Here is the link: cdn.specialized.com/OA_MEDIA/pdf/manuals/08_FORK_INSTALLATION-GUIDE_r2.pdf


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## scottzj

The only problem I have heard was not to have over 4cm under the stem for full carbon steerer tube. As, this would give you too much leverage to possibly break the tube. Now, removing spacers and cutting the tube (like most racers do), I wouldnt think would effect it at all, but Orbea are great people and can answer it for sure.


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## amos

Normally I always left one above as well and I dont' think Orbea advised one way or the other.

However on the newer 2011 frames (Orca and Terra) I've built the headtube expander assembly comes with a thin metal sleeve that looks like it reinforces the steerer tube where the stem clamps (and if you don't install it right it rattles around inside - took me a while to figure that out) and there are specific instructions to NOT put a spacer above the stem.

Based on the diagram included it looks like they're worried about the steerer snapping just below the stem and with spacers on top that sleeve wouldn't sit far enough down to reinforce that area.


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## scottzj

Ah...that might make more sense for sure. Thanks for the info! I could understand having too many under the stem, as it might put more pressure on the neck being that high up, but having them on top should be fine unless you have that sleeve. Nevertheless, I have sent an email to Orbea expressing our concerns and asking for direction.


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## Orbea-USA

scottzj said:


> Ah...that might make more sense for sure. Thanks for the info! I could understand having too many under the stem, as it might put more pressure on the neck being that high up, but having them on top should be fine unless you have that sleeve. Nevertheless, I have sent an email to Orbea expressing our concerns and asking for direction.


Seems like I saw this post at the right time. I will get with our tech guy tomorrow morning and have a solid answer for you. Thanks.


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## redondoaveb

I had emailed Orbea also, good timing that they chimed in on this thread. I have 3 cm's of spacers below the stem as shown below. Also, the internal sleeve is 2.5 cm's below top of steerer tube. It does go all the down to the top of the headset. Hopefully that is correct.


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## Orbea-USA

Here is our answer to the spacer questions.

Optimally, there should be no spacers above the stem. The top-cap assembly is designed to go down into the steerer-tube in order to reinforce the clamping zone of the stem. If absolutely necessary, you may run up to 10mm of stack on top of a stock stem. Non-stock stems may be different and must be left up to the discretion of the rider. 

The main point is that the assembly extends past the lower bolt on the stem. You can check this by removing the stem from the bike, placing a spacer on top, and then inserting the top-cap assembly to see how far down it reaches. If it is past the lower bolt on the stem, then you are okay to ride. If not, you will need to have a qualified mechanic cut off some of the steerer-tube.


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## redondoaveb

Thanks for the information. I would like to add spacers on top temporarily just to see how it feels, if I like the feel, then I would go ahead and have the steerer tube cut.


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## scottzj

You know I decided to take off the cap at the top of the fork and I can barely see where my spacer is taller than the tip of the fork. I mean I took a bright flashlight and very small screw driver to see and its very very small. So I think mine is fine but I do understand the statement and why it is so.


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## redondoaveb

Decided it's time to remove spacers and lower my stem. After removing top cap, I'm confused. The top cap is only 2 cm's tall. I have a couple extra stems and I measured them. The bottom bolt is 3-1/2 cm's from the top. If I'm reading Orbea's instructions right then none of my stems will work even with no spacers on top. 

Pictures of a couple of my stems are attached.


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## Orbea-USA

*Headset*

The photo below shows the parts of the headset expander when assembled and disassembled. If your bicycle is 2010 or older, it may not have the silver sleeve in the middle. The silver sleeve is to aid in installing the expander at the correct depth.

photo-4 | Flickr - Photo Sharing!

This photo shows the assembly instructions for a 2011 and newer Orca. Never mind the perfect English translation of the directions.

photo-3 | Flickr - Photo Sharing!

Sorry I had to post links, but pictures weren't happening.


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## scottzj

Ok, interesting....so 2 questions:

1. Would not having the reinforced clamp zone system cause the front end to be more "twitchy"? I have ridden the new Orca's and they seem very nice with little to no movement in the headset area verse my Opal and a few other Orbea's I have ridden. 

2. Is the main reason for not placing a spacer on top, due to possibly wrecking and the fork jabbing into a riders torso? 

I really dont see where it would be (in my case anyway), any stronger with the spacer under vice on top. As I stated my top of the fork and spacer are just about level with each over, so no over lapping.


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## redondoaveb

Scott and Orbea-USA

I assume your top spacer is a little bit higher than your fork, otherwise how would you set your preload?

My expander plug didn't come with the silver sleeve as shown, it's a '08 model. The bottom bolt of my stem does clamp on to the expander plug but the top bolt just clamps to the fork tube. That's with 1cm of spacer on top and 2 cm's on bottom. Of course, the more spacers I take out on bottom, the better clamping area I get on the expander plug.

Ok, it's not recommended that you install spacers on top of the stem. Why can't you temporarily install the spacers on top, install top cap, set your preload, tighten your stem bolts, remove top spacers and then re- install top cap without any spacers on top?

Or, can the silver sleeve be installed with existing expander plug which would strengthen the fork tube and then install spacers on top?


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## Orbea-USA

see later post.


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## redondoaveb

I have a 2008 model. There shouldn't be any problem with 2 cm's of spacers above the stem? Just making sure I clarify.

Thanks


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## Orbea-USA

Upon further investigation I have this to say. We only recommend putting at most 10mm of spacers on top of the stem with a carbon steerer tube regardless of what year or model that you own. If you run more stack, or have a stem that has a tall clamping zone, it is very important that you insert the expander plug at the correct depth to reinforce the clamp zone. The silver sleeve found on the expander plug on the new Orca is designed to do exactly this. If you clamp on part of the steerer that is not reinforced, you run the risk of compromising the carbon steerer if the stem is clamped with too much force.
If you want to temporarily ride with more spacers above the stem to check for fit issues, it is recommended that you remove the excess steerer tube as soon as possible and ride with a max of 10mm above the stem.
I have modified my past thread after receiving this nugget of advice.
If you have further questions, please direct them to [email protected]. I will be more than happy to clarify any issues or questions.


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## redondoaveb

That clears things up tremendously for me. Thanks for all the help. :thumbsup:


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## scottzj

Very good information. If I have a 2010 Opal that does not have this "sleeve", is there somewhere I could purchase one? I like the design and feel it would give the necessary added strength needed around the headset.


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## redondoaveb

Scott,

Aspire Velotech has a Pro Carbon compression plug (50mm with 22mm sleeve).


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## mecam

I have an 08 Opal and mine seems to have the sleeve expander. I would like to lower mine also by 10mm spacer. How do you loosen up the expander? Is there an allen screw thru the threaded hole of the cap screw? Also what is the recommended torque value of the stem clamp? I've been doing 4nm to be on the safe side. And how tight should the expander be as far as torque value? 

Thanks.


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## scottzj

You can either put the allen wrench thru the hole in the cap or just remove the cap first. Then once you remove the cap you can see the expander. Loosen the allen head on it and it will give you the ability to move it. Careful or it could fall all the way down the neck and then you would need to turn it upside down to retrieve it. As far as torque, I just tightened mine up where it was firm and didnt move a bit.


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## Frankie13

mecam said:


> I have an 08 Opal and mine seems to have the sleeve expander. I would like to lower mine also by 10mm spacer. How do you loosen up the expander? Is there an allen screw thru the threaded hole of the cap screw? Also what is the recommended torque value of the stem clamp? I've been doing 4nm to be on the safe side. And how tight should the expander be as far as torque value?
> 
> Thanks.


Pinarello uses the same system and my expander plug on my Prince and Dogma2 has max.8nm printed on. I would also use carbon paste and lower the torque a little bit to probably 6nm.


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## mecam

Well guys, my expander is different and it's freaking small and not even positioned right by the shop.  Disaster waiting to happen. Good thing I decided to check it out after visiting this thread.  I'm gonna get a true temper aluminum sleeve that goes all the way past the top of the headset as I'm seeing bearing marks in that area.










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## Orbea-USA

*Torque Value for Headset expander plug.*

The 5mm inside bolt should be at 5nm. The outer,6mm bolt, (The top-cap) should be at 6nm.

The best way to install this is to give some room between the expander and the carbon top-cap, drop the expanding unit into the fork, tighten the inner 5mm bolt, and then tighten the outer 6mm bolt. A little carbon paste won't hurt anything.

If you feel as though you go the wrong piece, or you would like the new version with a sleeve to help install correctly, please email me at [email protected]. I will do my best to get you fixed up.


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## scottzj

Yeah mine is the same thing.....I believe they didnt change the size of them until 2011 time frame. Mine is a 2010 with the same system as yours. In fact these suckers are so small, doesnt seem like they are doing much at all as far as the clamping area. You cant get both clamps of the stem to be in contact with that piece at all, I guess you just place it in the middle...


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## Kodi Crescent

I've got a question for the Orbea USA rep. I saw someone come into a local shop with a newer Orbea Onix. He bought the bike online and had a local shop build it. This guy probably weighed 250.

He was asking the sales staff to help him sit up higher, and I noticed they were trying a steering tube extender. I asked what the steering tube was made from, and it was an carbon fork with an aluminum steerer. I commented that I didn't think that was safe, but the shop employee insisted that it was.

So, is it safe to attach a steering tube extender on the Orbea Onix carbon/aluminum fork? 

Thanks in advance!


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## mecam

scottzj said:


> Yeah mine is the same thing.....I believe they didnt change the size of them until 2011 time frame. Mine is a 2010 with the same system as yours. In fact these suckers are so small, doesnt seem like they are doing much at all as far as the clamping area. You cant get both clamps of the stem to be in contact with that piece at all, I guess you just place it in the middle...



Yeah, mine was installed in the middle of the clamp but the stress area is on the bottom of the stem's clamp. Although, the Orbea's tube is one of the thickest I've seen. It has an ID of 22mm but carbon is carbon and will fatigue over time. Not too many expanders will fit in this thick tube. I ordered some 22mm aluminum T6 grade tube and will JB Weld it in place 20mm past below the top of the headset bearing and be about 10mm above the bottom of the stems clamp and I'll probably still use the same expander.


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