# Road Bike + Disc Brakes: Howling on long and steep descents



## genux (Jun 18, 2012)

Hi, All

I'm looking for advise on dealing with a road bike equipped with disc brakes making squealing/howling noises on long and steep descents. This is my first time riding disc brakes on a bike, so my only basis of comparison is my previous rim brakes. Pardon the wall of text, but I'm hoping to provide as much relevant detail.

Details:

SRAM Rival shifter / brake levers
Avid BB7 Road mechanical disc brakes
Avid organic pads with Aluminum backing (front brake), sintered pads (rear brake)
Tektro Lyra 160-mm front and 140-mm rear rotors
210-220 lbs bike+rider weight

I've spent hours reading up and working on my brakes to make sure they're properly aligned, cleaned, have proper breaking power, and properly bedded in. For the most part, I think I've done those well. I have no rubbing noises in normal riding, brake lever throw engages way before reaching the handlebars, and I can't get the squealing/howling sound to occur even on fast flat sprints with "emergency stops."

This weekend, when I took this bike on bigger hills, my brakes were squealing/howling for a good 1-2 seconds on a 5-mile descent with S-turns about -8% grade average. I only grab the brakes before entering the turn to drop a lot of speed. I was only doing 28mph and slowed down to 22mph.

On another descent, about -10% grade average (-14% at the worst hair-pin turn), I was going much faster at 35mph and tried to slow down to 20mph, so I was on the brakes for about 5-7 seconds. The front brake squealed/howled about 3-4 seconds (after I grabbed the brakes, before I let them go). Bad sign of potential glazing?

It's getting to be annoying, so I'm trying to silence them. I don't think I've experienced brake fade during those situations (I don't want to know what that's like).

From all the reading I've done, I've made these notes:


Brake pads are possibly contaminated and/or glazed
Rotors are contaminated and/or glazed
Sintered pads vs organic pads (I see conflicting tips on which is better for heavier riders + longer descents)
Improper braking technique
Choose bigger/better rotor sizes/surfaces

I can upload pictures of my pads and rotors, but I don't think they're glazed or contaminated. Under normal riding conditions, I hear nothing from them. The rotors have no discoloration, only a dark black/gray material that looks to be from the pads.

I'm still working on developing proper braking technique. I know enough how to avoid fish-tailing, but still learning things like proper cornering. I understand braking less == going faster and less noise, but there are certain rides where I want to live to try the hill another day.

I've thought about moving up rotors (160->200 front, 140->160 rear). It might help given my weight and rides, but I'd like to know other people's thoughts. I'm not concerned with the increased weight and drag — I have 25 lbs of body fat to lose, still.

Any tips and advise is greatly appreciated. I'm taking my bike to my LBS for their take on it as well. They have a lot of experience with mountain bikes, so I'm sure they'll have plenty of insight on steep downhills, though they did admit they've never really since disc brakes being used in speeds over > 35 mph (road conditions).

The worst case situation is I can learn to live with this howl on downhills, though that would annoy most of the other riders. At that point, I'd switch back to rim brakes.


----------



## authalic (Mar 21, 2013)

There might be more discussion about BB7 brakes on the MTBR forum. From what I hear, they're used often on cyclocross bikes:

Brake Time

From my MTB experience with Avid brakes, the squealing was unpredictable and intermittent, but seemed to be related to overheated rotors. I wasn't able to find any definitive diagnosis of what caused them to honk so much, and eventually swapped them out for Shimano XT brakes and rotors.

For a rider of your weight, who takes long/steep descents, I would definitely recommend larger rotors. The larger area of the bigger rotors will dissipate heat better, and they require less friction from the pads to achieve the same stopping power, which means less heat buildup.


----------



## genux (Jun 18, 2012)

Thanks for the link. Most of Google returns results from MTBR, so practically all the notes I have are from users' experience over there. I've also been talking to friends and LBS who have experience with disc brakes on MTBs and CX bikes, but many of them rarely take their brakes on the kind of fast/long descents that road cyclists are used to.

Another factor I've been told to look out for is larger rotors and fork compatibility, specifically with regards to stiffness. I think it's a non-issue with MTBs and full-suspension, but I'm waiting to hear back from my frame maker (Volagi) to see if there'd be any issues with that.

I'm suspecting that this might become a little bit more common for roadies now that newer bikes are also being offered with disc brakes.

I was looking into Shimano BR-R505/R515 with IceTech rotors, but was thinking that if I were replacing brake systems, I might as well go back to rim brakes (with more wheels for me to choose from).


----------



## skinewmexico (Apr 19, 2010)

What about Squeal Out


----------



## genux (Jun 18, 2012)

I'll give that a shot if it's worth it. So far, I've only used isopropyl alcohol to clean the rotors and pads.

I'm going to take the brakes on a slightly less steep hill to see if it's a matter of speed, duration, or both.


----------



## MR_GRUMPY (Aug 21, 2002)

Does it squeel like a pig??
.
.


----------



## genux (Jun 18, 2012)

At it's worst, yes.

There are a few times when it squeals and goes away on its own even though I'm still grabbing the brakes.


----------



## headloss (Mar 3, 2013)

a) adjust toe-in
b) try different pads
c) accept it and think of it as a better-bell


----------



## brucew (Jun 3, 2006)

I've been running BB7s on my commuter since 2006. 

The only time I've experienced any howling was descending Mt Evans. As a flatlander I have little experience with mountain descents. Between that and the winds, road surface, and absence of guardrails, well, I rode the brakes pretty heavily. The howling was entirely heat related.

A few days later descending from Estes Park, no howling. I was more confident on that road (CR 43, Devil's Gulch Rd) and was off the brakes much more than I was on. Hence, less heat buildup.

In a review a couple of years ago, the reviewer complained of howling and fade on mountain descents. It turned out the bike he was on had decorator rotors, designed to look pretty with more air than metal. Less metal equals more heat. 

I don't know what rotors are on your bike, but think about different ones if your bike has decorator rotors. 

I'm running Avid G3s now, which seem to strike a balance between fashion and function. They're also a 12-spoke rotor, which means more heat dissipation area, and like wheels, those with more spokes stay truer longer.


----------



## Triggsie (Sep 19, 2011)

brucew said:


> In a review a couple of years ago, the reviewer complained of howling and fade on mountain descents. It turned out the bike he was on had decorator rotors, designed to look pretty with more air than metal. Less metal equals more heat.
> 
> I don't know what rotors are on your bike, but think about different ones if your bike has decorator rotors.
> 
> I'm running Avid G3s now, which seem to strike a balance between fashion and function. They're also a 12-spoke rotor, which means more heat dissipation area, and like wheels, those with more spokes stay truer longer.


I agree Tektro rotors are not the greatest. Maybe upping the size 1in 180/160 and getting AVID rotors will help.


----------



## AJ88V (Nov 14, 2012)

I seriously doubt it's your rotors, although it would be a good idea to clean them well with something that strips oils and grease. Never touch discs with bare hands, as even the oils from your skin will contaminate the disc surface.

The cheapest thing you can use to clean discs is Windex or other ammonia-based cleaner. 

Automotive brake cleaner works better if you happen to have that on the shelf (about $3 a can). The brake cleaner is also safe to use on the brake pads. Keep it off the paint, although it's not super bad if you splatter. Wear safety glasses if you're spraying.

On MTBs, I have had good luck using a medium machine file to remove glazing off the pads (which I suspect is your issue). DO NOT use sand paper because the abrasive particles will embed in the pad material and greatly accelerate disc wear.

If your pads are contaminated (oil/wax), you can sometimes remove them and heat the surface with a propane torch, gently waving the flame across the pad surface until it just starts to smoke. Don't breath the fumes.

Usually your best approach is to just replace the pads. Think of it as a cheap upgrade.


----------



## tednugent (Apr 26, 2010)

Avid HS1 rotors are nice. They still squeal went heated up though..... (still better and less expensive than the Cleansweep rotors)

The best rotors I've had were from pricepoint. THe Alligator Windcutter.
Alligator Windcutter Colored Disc Rotor | Alligator | Brand | www.PricePoint.com

While descending... what's your body position? How hard are you on the brakes (full squeeze or are you actually modulating the pressure)?


----------



## brucew (Jun 3, 2006)

tednugent said:


> The best rotors I've had were from pricepoint. THe Alligator Windcutter.
> Alligator Windcutter Colored Disc Rotor | Alligator | Brand | www.PricePoint.com


That's a fine example of what I was referring to as decorator rotors. In the swept area, there's far more air than metal.


----------



## bballr4567 (Jul 17, 2012)

Triggsie said:


> I agree Tektro rotors are not the greatest. Maybe upping the size 1in 180/160 and getting AVID rotors will help.


Yup. I have BB7 on my MTB and they came with the 180/160. They squealed at the first sign of a hard stop 90% of the time. I upgraded the front to the 203 and moved the 180 to the rear because Im 240lbs completely loaded up. This literally stopped all the squealing. Although they will do it once they get really hot its stopped for the most part. 

I have the G3 rotors. 


OP, try a larger rotor. I will say its almost impossible to get them to stop completely but you can cut it down a lot.


----------



## tednugent (Apr 26, 2010)

brucew said:


> That's a fine example of what I was referring to as decorator rotors. In the swept area, there's far more air than metal.


oddly enough, they work. They also clear mud pretty well. Many on MTBR use the windcutter rotors also.


----------



## CleavesF (Dec 31, 2007)

All disc brakes will squeal eventually. 

The only way to minimize is to buy super expensive organic pads which wear out faster than hookers and blow.


----------



## genux (Jun 18, 2012)

I have both the Tektro Lyra: and the Avid G2 Cleansweep in both 160/140. I think the G2CS is a tiny bit quieter, but not squeal-free. I was looking into seeing if Shimano's IceTech rotors might be an improvement, but the consensus on mix-and-matching calipers and rotors seems to be iffy.

I spoke with Volagi (frame manufacturer) and after looking closely, the positioning of the brakes won't allow more than a 180-mm rotor on the front and 140-mm on the back. I'm not sure if the switch from 160-mm to 180-mm will have that much of an improvement. Given that I'm only hearing squealing during long, hard braking on descents, I think I can work on improving braking technique and experimenting with brake pads.


----------



## bballr4567 (Jul 17, 2012)

The reason they squeal is they get hot. If there is more braking surface than that means there is more material to get hot and it will take longer to get hot. It will make a difference. 

The G3 is a very good improvement on the G2. Its stronger so itll resist movement under braking (another reason for squeal) and its a different metal alloy that allows for greater heat dissipation. For your weight, there is no doubt that you will get much improved braking with a 180 rotor. I think a 180 G3 runs right at $25. 

If you truly want to step it up, try the HS1 as someone already suggested.


----------



## genux (Jun 18, 2012)

tednugent said:


> While descending... what's your body position? How hard are you on the brakes (full squeeze or are you actually modulating the pressure)?


On the really steep portion, I was on the hoods with my hands pulling on the brakes hard to dump a lot of speed, usually trying to reach the low 20s. I notice when I'm on the hoods braking, I usually position my body to increase wind resistance / drag (maximum stopping intent, but trying to avoid being thrown over the bars). 


Here's my bike setup just for reference:
View attachment 284644


On long or "manageable" descents, I can be on the drops and "tap" or "stab" the brakes to control speed (probably 70% front, 30% rear).

I've been hearing the tip of "brake harder, brake later" as opposed to "feathering the brakes," but that's something I'm still working on, especially on unfamiliar descents/turns.


----------



## genux (Jun 18, 2012)

bballr4567 said:


> The reason they squeal is they get hot. If there is more braking surface than that means there is more material to get hot and it will take longer to get hot. It will make a difference.
> 
> The G3 is a very good improvement on the G2. Its stronger so itll resist movement under braking (another reason for squeal) and its a different metal alloy that allows for greater heat dissipation. For your weight, there is no doubt that you will get much improved braking with a 180 rotor. I think a 180 G3 runs right at $25.
> 
> If you truly want to step it up, try the HS1 as someone already suggested.


Thanks for the tip. I was searching for BB7 Road + Rotor compatibility. SRAM/Avid's site shows that the BB7 Road/MTN S and SL calipers ship with the HS1 rotor, and the original BB7 Road/MTN ship with G2CS. One thread I found that talked about these particular rotors was that the G2CS rotor had a larger braking surface than G3CS/HS1, and the other was something about the brake pads overhanging the rotor.


----------



## ziscwg (Apr 19, 2010)

headloss said:


> a) adjust toe-in
> b) try different pads
> c) accept it and think of it as a better-bell


No toe in on disk brakes. However, caliper alignment is important.


----------



## ziscwg (Apr 19, 2010)

MR_GRUMPY said:


> Does it squeel like a pig??
> .
> .


Avids/Sram disk brakes gooble like turkeys.


----------



## tednugent (Apr 26, 2010)

ziscwg said:


> No toe in on disk brakes. However, caliper alignment is important.


With SRAM/AVID TriAlign system, centering the caliper to the disc (assuming it's true) is very easy.


----------



## ziscwg (Apr 19, 2010)

As said above, dump the tekko rotors.

Avid do the best with Avid rotors. G3 are a good upgrade.

The HS1 rotors do well also, but I have only had limited mtn experience with them.

Changing rotor size sure can help, but make sure your frame/fork can handle the size.


----------



## genux (Jun 18, 2012)

ziscwg said:


> Avids/Sram disk brakes gooble like turkeys.


I've heard the "turkey warble" but I can't find the YouTube clip of it.

Mine, fortunately, sounds nothing like it. Just like a squealing pig / banshee.


----------



## ziscwg (Apr 19, 2010)

tednugent said:


> With SRAM/AVID TriAlign system, centering the caliper to the disc (assuming it's true) is very easy.


It is, but I have found it still lacking when you get to the place the caliper needs to be when your are acutally riding with torque.

Personally, I think Avid whole alignment system is the cause of the imfamous "turkey gobble"


----------



## genux (Jun 18, 2012)

Thanks for all the tips so far. I'm going to my LBS today to discuss some options:

1. Have them check the brake alignment and the conditions of the pad and rotors
2. Experiment with 180mm-rotors (G2CS, G3CS, HS1) on the front

I'm somewhat confident that I've gotten #1 right myself, but they're offering to give it a second look.

I may also be able to demo the TRP Hy/Rd brakes. Not sure if that's going to help directly, since I don't have any problems with braking/stopping power per se.


----------



## ms6073 (Jul 7, 2005)

headloss said:


> a) adjust toe-in


Curious what is meant by adjust 'toe-in' on a disc brake caliper or was this intended more along the lines of verify caliper alignment/centering?


----------



## bob.satan (Jun 2, 2011)

genux said:


> Thanks for all the tips so far. I'm going to my LBS today to discuss some options:
> 
> 1. Have them check the brake alignment and the conditions of the pad and rotors
> 2. Experiment with 180mm-rotors (G2CS, G3CS, HS1) on the front
> ...


I previously had BB7's and depending on the wheelset/rotors i was running they would be silent or squeal, quite obviously the rotors in this case, the avid rotors were always silent. In both cases they are 160mm.

I have now upgraded to the HyRd's and have done about 1,000km on them now. They have amazing stopping power and the feel is a lot better than the BB7's. I was able to stop in an emergency situation from 60kph in about 10m quite easily (and I am 120kg (280lbs))

using the exact same wheelsets, I havent had any noise out of them at all.


----------



## genux (Jun 18, 2012)

Thanks for the note re: TRP HyRd, bob.satan! I've been looking at those brakes fairly closely and may be able to demo them in a week or two. Although the BB7s are fine, having better stopping power would be great.

I just got my bike from the LBS and noticed that the brake retainer on the front caliper is missing, which explains the occasional rattling I hear. They said the alignment was spot-on, so they just cleaned the brakes and sanded the rotors just in case.

I'll know tomorrow when I put my bike through its paces.


----------



## ziscwg (Apr 19, 2010)

genux said:


> I've heard the "turkey warble" but I can't find the YouTube clip of it.
> 
> Mine, fortunately, sounds nothing like it. Just like a squealing pig / banshee.


I have a quick fix for that:
Formula RX
Shimano XT

Tried as many have, no one has ever found the real fix for it that works for most except replacing the brakes. IMHO, it's the CPS system Avid/Sram uses. When you put that with certain frames and other conditions, people hear you coming a mile a way.

Srams road disc look to have only half of the conical washer mess. If someone gave me a bike with the Red/Disc set up, I'd pull those washers and have the bolt head as close the caliper as possible. The "normal" way of disc brake set worked fine for most.


----------



## ziscwg (Apr 19, 2010)

bob.satan said:


> I previously had BB7's and depending on the wheelset/rotors i was running they would be silent or squeal, quite obviously the rotors in this case, the avid rotors were always silent. In both cases they are 160mm.
> 
> I have now upgraded to the HyRd's and have done about 1,000km on them now. They have amazing stopping power and *the feel is a lot better than the BB7's.* I was able to stop in an emergency situation from 60kph in about 10m quite easily (and I am 120kg (280lbs))
> 
> using the exact same wheelsets, I havent had any noise out of them at all.


Ding Ding, we have a winner.

Some have posted things like "why do we need hydro? I can stop fine." It's more the modulation and effort to activate, than raw stopping power.


----------



## ziscwg (Apr 19, 2010)

Genux,

If you go with the TRP Hy/Rd set up, for sure dump those tekko rotors. Low surface area rotors and hydros only match up if you DON'T have long or steep descents. From what you said, you like the longer descents. If you want to be cautious, go with the 160/160 combo. 

I like what TRP is doing with the after market setups.


----------



## genux (Jun 18, 2012)

I took my bike for a spin yesterday on some small hills with descents that aren't quite as steep. On longer descents, when I'm holding onto the brakes for more than 10 seconds, the squeal starts to build up, but it's very much quieter (subdued) at this point. If I just stab the brakes, it never gets the chance to squeal.

The take-away is that this may be normal when the pads/rotors heat up, so I'll just do regular maintenance/cleaning to minimize it.

The TRP HyRd is next on my want list now. I'm hoping to demo them in a week or two.

I just saw this video of the HyRd making the rotors go red hot without squealing and fading. Fairly impressive, though I'd like to see the same test repeated with some "weight" on them.


----------



## genux (Jun 18, 2012)

ziscwg said:


> Genux,
> 
> If you go with the TRP Hy/Rd set up, for sure dump those tekko rotors. Low surface area rotors and hydros only match up if you have long or steep descents. From what you said, you like the longer descents. If you want to be cautious, go with the 160/160 combo.
> 
> I like what TRP is doing with the after market setups.


Thanks for the tip. Unfortunately, I can only do 160/140 or 180/140. My frame can't take anything larger than a 140-mm rotor on the rear; not enough clearance on the seat stays.

I'm still learning how to climb longer hills, and along with that goes the downhill. I've been second-guessing the BB7's stopping ability (feel + power) the past 2 months, so my downhill rides have been less-than-fun. I'm slowly building confidence, but need more time and practice.


----------



## authalic (Mar 21, 2013)

ziscwg said:


> Tried as many have, no one has ever found the real fix for it that works for most except replacing the brakes.


That's the solution I eventually went with on my MTB. I swapped out my Avid Elixr 7 brakes for Shimano XT this past winter. About a month ago, I took my bike in to the LBS for some routine maintenance on the suspension fork. A guy in the shop noticed the XT brakes. He said Avid has been good about replacing noisy/faulty brakes. I still had the old set in a ziploc bag, so I took them back in and I'm told that Avid is sending me a new set of brakes and rotors.

It could be worth talking to someone at your local shop. The issues with Avid brakes are not uncommon. I haven't received the replacement set yet, but when they arrive, I'll likely put them on eBay and try to recover some of the cost of the Shimano setup.


----------



## ziscwg (Apr 19, 2010)

genux said:


> I just saw this video of the HyRd making the rotors go red hot without squealing and fading. Fairly impressive, though I'd like to see the same test repeated with some "weight" on them.


That vid is good, but they did not have them in the red that long. If they would have had them in the red for 20 seconds or so, I'd be more impressed. 

I could not tell you if I've ever got my mtb rotors in the red, but I have got water to boil right off when dropped some on right after a long DH. (I had no fade either on my Formula K24 160mm rotors)


----------



## ziscwg (Apr 19, 2010)

genux said:


> Thanks for the tip. Unfortunately, I can only do 160/140 or 180/140. My frame can't take anything larger than a 140-mm rotor on the rear; not enough clearance on the seat stays.
> 
> I'm still learning how to climb longer hills, and along with that goes the downhill. I've been second-guessing the BB7's stopping ability (feel + power) the past 2 months, so my downhill rides have been less-than-fun. I'm slowly building confidence, but need more time and practice.


Keep practicing and watch some vids on how to decsend. 

One thing that could help you on the limit of your bb7 is testing on a straight DH. Find youself a DH that is straight. Get up some speed and stop in the middle or upper 1/3 or something. See how the BB7 react. If they are fine, go faster and longer. The "safe" part is if you push the BB7 too far and they don't work right, you have a lot of straight road in front of you.

Early on in MTB, I had a coach that said, "You learn the DH skills fast, but having confidence in yourself and your bike can take much longer." So, knowing where your brakes are at their limit, is a good thing to know.

If your rig can only do 140 in the rear, you will probably be fine. Most of your stopping power is in the front. Just get a rotor with lots of surface area. Shimano's new IceTech rotors come in 140 IIRC. I haven't been on them with any long MTB DH, only short ones. The did well in my limited testing.


----------



## ziscwg (Apr 19, 2010)

authalic said:


> That's the solution I eventually went with on my MTB. I swapped out my Avid Elixr 7 brakes for Shimano XT this past winter. About a month ago, I took my bike in to the LBS for some routine maintenance on the suspension fork. A guy in the shop noticed the XT brakes. He said Avid has been good about replacing noisy/faulty brakes. I still had the old set in a ziploc bag, so I took them back in and I'm told that Avid is sending me a new set of brakes and rotors.
> 
> It could be worth talking to someone at your local shop. The issues with Avid brakes are not uncommon. I haven't received the replacement set yet, but when they arrive, I'll likely put them on eBay and try to recover some of the cost of the Shimano setup.


Avid is great with trying to make something right most of the time. However, time is what it takes as they are slow about it. 

When I was up at my fav DH shuttle place (I won't say where as he is only one of two in area), I busted my front brake in a crash. I went searching for a replacement and he said that he's had such bad luck with AVid/Sram on his retal fleet. He just replaces them with Shinano's if there's any issue. Sram is great about getting replacements to him, but he leaves them in a box in the corner. He needs his retal fleat working, not iffy.


----------



## genux (Jun 18, 2012)

Last week, the brake pad on the outer-board fell off on my front brakes which led me to lose all braking ability on the front. Fortunately, that happened on a very short bridge so my rear brakes were sufficient to slow me down at the stop sign.

Cripes. If that's what brake fade feels like, I *never* want to experience that ever again.

I replaced my front brake pads with Avid BB7 organic (aluminum backed) pads. Broke them in the first 2 days. They seem to be quieter over-all, and I only hear squeals on long-descents when my pads are sufficiently heated up, usually after several (more than 6) long brake pulls lasting 2-3 seconds each. I don't seem to hear them at all when I keep the interval at which I brake longer, which means touching the brakes less == better descending, cornering == no squeals.

I ordered a set of TRP's Hy/Rd brakes and will have them on my bike by next weekend. I'm hoping for better feel at the brake levers as well as better modulation.


----------



## genux (Jun 18, 2012)

Well, I "solved" my squeal problem indirectly — switching over to the TRP Hy/Rd disc brakes eliminated my complains with the Avid BB7 road disc brakes they replaced.

I took them for a spin down Highway 9 in Saratoga, and for just as a test, decided to see how long it took for the brakes to "squeal" if I just kept on riding them. With the BB7s, it would take a minute or so of repeated braking. I didn't hear anything from the Hy/Rd setup even though I was pushing 32mph + braking repeatedly to see if it would complain.

The greatly improved modulation was an added bonus. The "feel" of the brakes is better on Shimano's Ultegra/DuraAce brake levers; with the SRAM Rival brake levers, they "feel" a bit mushy at first (slightly longer lever travel) but it doesn't seem to affect braking performance. And no matter how I fiddled with the BB7s, it always felt like I had to grab the brakes close to the bar just to get it to do what I wanted.

Overall, I'm pretty happy now. I know it'll still squeal when the rotors/pads are wet, but at least now on the downhills I don't have the "early warning bell" to alert/distract/unnerve other riders.


----------



## headloss (Mar 3, 2013)

ms6073 said:


> Curious what is meant by adjust 'toe-in' on a disc brake caliper or was this intended more along the lines of verify caliper alignment/centering?





ziscwg said:


> No toe in on disk brakes. However, caliper alignment is important.


Sorry, I wasn't following the thread. Some disc brake calipers have an adjustment nut to position the pads. On my generic Shimano disc calipers, it is labeled "toe in." On the BB7, I'm not sure if it is labeled, but I know the adjustment is there. It just allows you to fine tune pad position against the spring clip. I'm not sure if it angles the pad in the same way that you toe-in a rim pad, or if it just moves the orientation around. Hydraulic discs, on the other hand, don't have any such adjustment as the pad placement is automatic when the brakes are set up (a spacer is required when the wheel/rotor is removed or else accidentally squeezing the brake lever will reorient the pads which will rub when you put the wheel back on the bike... the only way to reset a misaligned pad w/ hydraulic disc brakes is to vent the mineral oil at the lever on the bars).


----------



## ziscwg (Apr 19, 2010)

genux said:


> Well, I "solved" my squeal problem indirectly — switching over to the TRP Hy/Rd disc brakes eliminated my complains with the Avid BB7 road disc brakes they replaced.
> 
> *I took them for a spin down Highway 9 in Saratoga*, and for just as a test, decided to see how long it took for the brakes to "squeal" if I just kept on riding them. With the BB7s, it would take a minute or so of repeated braking. I didn't hear anything from the Hy/Rd setup even though I was pushing 32mph + braking repeatedly to see if it would complain.
> 
> ...


I love that descent. (in bold). I sit at the Saratoga Gap parking lot and watch a car start down. I wait 90 seconds, then hit it. If I catch the car before downtown, I win. My crowning moment (in my irrelevant world) was catching a Corvette. 

I just wish my Garmin 800 GPS would not be all over the place on it. It seems like I'm not even on the road half the time on it. Strava, then doesn't match me to many segments going down.


----------

