# thornproof tubes?



## Fixed (May 12, 2005)

Do thornproof tubes slow you down very much? I've only used them on my Milano cruiser bike, never on a road bike. On a commuter with 23mm Gatorskin tires, do you think I'd feel any difference at 17-20 mph?

Thanks.


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## fbagatelleblack (Mar 31, 2005)

Fixed said:


> Do thornproof tubes slow you down very much? I've only used them on my Milano cruiser bike, never on a road bike. On a commuter with 23mm Gatorskin tires, do you think I'd feel any difference at 17-20 mph?
> 
> Thanks.


Thorn proof tubes, made of thicker rubber, are absolutely useless. You are much, much better off going with tire liners. Thorn proof tubes are obscenely heavy and almost completely ineffective.

- FBB


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## FatTireFred (Jan 31, 2005)

fbagatelleblack said:


> Thorn proof tubes, made of thicker rubber, are absolutely useless. You are much, much better off going with tire liners. Thorn proof tubes are obscenely heavy and almost completely ineffective.
> 
> - FBB



when I lived in an area with lots of thorns it was tire liners- Mr. Tuffys- and not the thicker tubes


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## rideorglide (Dec 3, 2005)

I'd never heard of these things until this post. 

These sound kind of enticing —

http://www.spinskins.com/ 

— for the commute I'm planning.


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## bigbill (Feb 15, 2005)

In commuting, reliability comes before performance. That being said, thornproof tubes aren't worth it. Tuffys, spin skins, or gatorskins/armadillos are about the best thornproof setup you can get. A thorn can still get you even with tough tires if you hit it right. Schwalbe makes a nice commuter tire as well, I saw the cross section and it looks pretty tough. I cannot recall the name of it. I have been using armadillo nimbus tires, pretty decent ride. I have put around 2K on them so far with only one flat.


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## Pablo (Jul 7, 2004)

I use Panaracer kevlar tire liners. They're $15 each, which is steep, but they're great. It's goathead city out here part of the year and they cannot penetrate these liners. You also don't even notice them, unlike Mr. Tuffies, which make your tires feel like cement and cause flats if not properly installed.


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## lookrider (Dec 3, 2006)

Fixed said:


> Do thornproof tubes slow you down very much? I've only used them on my Milano cruiser bike, never on a road bike. On a commuter with 23mm Gatorskin tires, do you think I'd feel any difference at 17-20 mph?
> 
> Thanks.


I had been riding gatorskins a few months back. I thought they were pretty durable. I actually had a thin nail go through the tread horizontally without puncturing the tube and pulled it out with little plyers. I rode 10 miles home and removed the tire. There was only a little bump in the inside liner. I put some krazy glue in the hole on the outside to plug the surface. I went to conti gp 4000's which are also quite durable. I just took the rear tire off which had about 3500 miles and hadn't completely worn down to the wear indicators. It's like a baloney skin now though. I put the old gatorskin with the hole on the rear wheel and still have a gp 4000 on the front. I'll let you know if I feel much of a difference. I don't think there will be that much of a difference.


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## Fixed (May 12, 2005)

*thanks all*



lookrider said:


> I had been riding gatorskins a few months back. I thought they were pretty durable. I actually had a thin nail go through the tread horizontally without puncturing the tube and pulled it out with little plyers. I rode 10 miles home and removed the tire. There was only a little bump in the inside liner. I put some krazy glue in the hole on the outside to plug the surface. I went to conti gp 4000's which are also quite durable. I just took the rear tire off which had about 3500 miles and hadn't completely worn down to the wear indicators. It's like a baloney skin now though. I put the old gatorskin with the hole on the rear wheel and still have a gp 4000 on the front. I'll let you know if I feel much of a difference. I don't think there will be that much of a difference.


Thanks. Last night I found a piece of glass stuck in the tire, which had caused the flats. Don't know why I didn't find it on the road, but in any event it took needle nose pliars to get it out. 

I'm using the foldagle kevlar bead Gatorskin tires now, but it seems that the wire bead version was a little tougher and with thicker rubber. Anyone else think so?

I threw in a thornproof tube in the rear, but I think I'm going to change it back out. In light of the comments here, the fact that it weighs about a full pound, and it seemed to me this morning that it felt like I was pulling a trailer. The rational side of me knows that a tube should not have that much effect, but it sure felt like it. I'll look into the liners, though. I realize that weight should not matter that much on a 13 mile flat commute, but then I'm accellerating from a stop to 20 mph probably 40 times a day. If nothing else, less weight makes it easier on the knees.

I tried Spinskins several years ago, though, and found them to be useless and a pain to install and reinstall on the road.


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## Sledgehammer03 (Mar 7, 2006)

I have been running with Armadillos, Mr. Tuffy's, and specialized tubes since May, 2006. since then, I have had 1 flat. The tube came apart inside the tire. I have had glass that drove itself through the tire, but not the tube (Thanks Mr. Tuffy). The glass had to be pulled out with pliers and there is a cut in the tire, but it doesn't expand, and I keep rolling along. I figure if I am a 1 or 2 and hour slower, it is still faster than changing a tube, regardless of teh weather.
I don't worry about the weight, cause I am still carrying around at least 20 lb that I shouldn't. When I get the 6-pack abs, I might start worrying about the weight on my back or the weight on the bike.

Sledge


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## fleck (Mar 25, 2005)

forget the thick tubes... 
go with the tire liners but real key is in the maintaince... when you do have a flat spend some time to find the thorn/glass. Often there are several if you use the tire liners. Remove them and clean them as well.

another great product is the Stans tire sealant. It's designed to use for converting regular tires to a tubeless system. But i like to inject a couple TBS into my innertubes. It works great. I got it first to use on my tubular tires but also find great sucess limiting flats on my CX bike. one 17$ jug takes care of a whole lot of tubes!
:thumbsup:


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## Spinfinity (Feb 3, 2004)

*Weren't you the guy who started me on Paselas?*



Fixed said:


> I'm using the foldagle kevlar bead Gatorskin tires now, but it seems that the wire bead version was a little tougher and with thicker rubber. Anyone else think so?
> .



I first heard of them on this board and have used them very happily for commuting for a few years. To me they're the best compromise of toughness and suppleness. 

I use Mr Tuffy in the winter time only and get very few flats even after UConn football games in E Hartford which seem to produce broken glass.

I find that tire liners are much easier if I first inflate the tube, use it to hold the tire liner in place, mount the first side of the tire on the rim, let the air out and mount the second side. Kind of argues for a frame pump.


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## fbagatelleblack (Mar 31, 2005)

Spinfinity said:


> I first heard of them [Paselas] on this board and have used them very happily for commuting for a few years. To me they're the best compromise of toughness and suppleness.


Are you using the Pasela TGs with the Kevlar belt (mine have the Kevlar bead and belt)? I've been running a set of TGs for a couple hundred miles so far, No flats yet, and I like the ride of the 700CX32mm size.

I've heard some say that the non-TG versions are more supple. Any thoughts on that?

Thanks,

FBB


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## rideorglide (Dec 3, 2005)

bigbill said:


> In commuting, reliability comes before performance. That being said, thornproof tubes aren't worth it. Tuffys, spin skins, or gatorskins/armadillos are about the best thornproof setup you can get. A thorn can still get you even with tough tires if you hit it right.


It's good to be reminded.

I'm putting together/planning a commute, and while it's generally a pleasant challenging 13 1/2 mile ride each way, it also involves going through some sketchy industrial spots, and some long, fast descents.

These liners plus my gatorskins ought to do the trick. 

(Like you said "if you hit it right" -- I once had an 1/8-inch thick piece of pointed, coiled nail go in so deep and hard it required needle nose pliers, and some body-English to yank out. It would have made a pretty effective end of a fish hook for a large shark. I couldn't imagine anything stopping that thing -- the strange way the metal was twisted, guaranteed that when ridden over, it would leverage its point into the tire.

I guess that's one of the downsides of having a solid-waste recycling facility along the route.)


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## lancezneighbor (May 4, 2002)

dfleck said:


> forget the thick tubes...
> go with the tire liners but real key is in the maintaince... when you do have a flat spend some time to find the thorn/glass. Often there are several if you use the tire liners. Remove them and clean them as well.
> 
> another great product is the Stans tire sealant. It's designed to use for converting regular tires to a tubeless system. But i like to inject a couple TBS into my innertubes. It works great. I got it first to use on my tubular tires but also find great sucess limiting flats on my CX bike. one 17$ jug takes care of a whole lot of tubes!
> :thumbsup:


Can you inject the Stans sealant into a presta valve tube? How is it done? Thanks.


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## Spinfinity (Feb 3, 2004)

*Only used the TG's.*

I've had a few of them over the past few years and found them to be very practical tires without feeling like wheel weights or hard plastic. I've wondered what they would be like in 23c or 25c for brevet riding. 

[QUOTEI've heard some say that the non-TG versions are more supple. Any thoughts on that?/QUOTE]


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## Doggity (Mar 10, 2006)

Consider this another vote for Armadillos. Never had a puncture flat when I was using those. My current ride is a 650B, and there ain't no 650B Armadillos. So, I've been using the Panaracer FlatAway liner, so far with very good results. But I've only a few hundred miles on my new ride, so we'll see.


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## lookrider (Dec 3, 2006)

I just switched out a conti gp 4000 for a gatorskin wire bead 23mm on the rear. It makes very little performance difference that you can feel. I've ridden about 100 miles since my last post after changing the tire,averaging about 18mph and I felt very little difference speed or performance wise. I'm 170lbs and ride between 90 to 100 psi. The only difference I noticed was that the gatorskin gave a more substantial feel, however if it was a blind test I don't know if I could tell the difference. I think I could now but then again I knew when I changed the tires. My point is that unless you're racing, the gatorskins are worth the flat protection and in addition you're saving 15 to 20 dollars over high performance tires. My rides are kind of like "training rides" solo. Moderate efforts, no extreme cornering. I get very few flats, despite riding on debris strewn(glass, metal objects) South Florida roads.


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