# Since that other thread has near 200 posts: Armstrong, split, Contador etc...



## uzziefly (Jul 15, 2006)

http://www.astana-cyclingteam.com/race_recaps/tdfst0309.html

Nuff said.

On to the TTT now.


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## Andrea138 (Mar 10, 2008)

First!!!!!


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## TheDon (Feb 3, 2006)

Are you trying to compete with my thread?


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## uzziefly (Jul 15, 2006)

TheDon said:


> Are you trying to compete with my thread?


I'm sending you a message.


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## choppedsled (Sep 18, 2008)

Thats Awsome !


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## JSR (Feb 27, 2006)

uzziefly said:


> http://www.astana-cyclingteam.com/race_recaps/tdfst0309.html.


LOL, that article mirrors my comments from that other thread, right down to the necessity for Astana ride "cohesively" in the TTT. Maybe I should go into journalism (if writing articles about a bike team to be posted on their own website can be called journalism).

Astana will win the TTT. Maybe by a lot.

JSR


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## mohair_chair (Oct 3, 2002)

Is uzziefly sending a message to TheDon?


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## danl1 (Jul 23, 2005)

*Astana website busticated*



uzziefly said:


> Nuff said.


"Service Unavailable" is enough?


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## SlowMo (Apr 18, 2006)

*Click on it again...it will come up.*



danl1 said:


> "Service Unavailable" is enough?


I LOVE IT! This is exactly what everyone was hoping would happen, but on stage 3?


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## Andrea138 (Mar 10, 2008)

Contador should wait until lance takes a big TTT pull then attack. That'd crack me up.


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## Len J (Jan 28, 2004)

This pic says it all to me.....

Len


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## LWP (Jun 6, 2006)

Andrea138 said:


> Contador should wait until lance takes a big TTT pull then attack. That'd crack me up.


Something about the team manager saying the team did what he told them to do and people still blaming the team for doing what their manager told them to do just seems kinda strange to me. If Bruyneel said in the interviews "I'm really not too happy with some of my team for ignoring my orders to drop back and try to save their captain's inattentive @$$" I'd be right on board with you. Since that's not the case, I don't get it. I'm not a racer so I'll ask a dumb question, what would the next team meeting be like if Bruyneel said "attack" and those 3 in the front group said "nope, that's not cool... we're gonna go get our captain" and the entire team lost time to the leader instead of having 2 sitting in the top 4 going into the TTT?


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## CARBON110 (Apr 17, 2002)

haha Len!!!! 

lol lol lol


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## SamDC (Mar 22, 2002)

Someone or someones mentioned that LA sat at the back of the line reaping the benefits but doing no work. I think this photo shows otherwise.

http://www.grahamwatson.com/gw/imagedocs.nsf/PhotosTest/09tdfSt3-018000


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## JSR (Feb 27, 2006)

SamDC said:


> Someone or someones mentioned that LA sat at the back of the line reaping the benefits but doing no work. I think this photo shows otherwise.
> 
> http://www.grahamwatson.com/gw/imagedocs.nsf/PhotosTest/09tdfSt3-018000


That caption is misleading. Note the absence of Columbia, Skil-Shimano, and Zubeldia/Popovich in the photo. They are busily hammering on the front while LA poses for pics! 

JSR


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## sometimerider (Sep 21, 2007)

JSR said:


> That caption is misleading. Note the absence of Columbia, Skil-Shimano, and Zubeldia/Popovich in the photo. They are busily hammering on the front while LA poses for pics!


Exactly.


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## Travis (Oct 14, 2005)

178 Dmitriy Muravyev (Kaz) 15.52 

the token Kaz is already 15 minutes down on stage 3. That pick is the real joke


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## alexb618 (Aug 24, 2006)

SamDC said:


> Someone or someones mentioned that LA sat at the back of the line reaping the benefits but doing no work. I think this photo shows otherwise.
> 
> http://www.grahamwatson.com/gw/imagedocs.nsf/PhotosTest/09tdfSt3-018000


LOL you didnt watch the stage did you...


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## thechriswebb (Nov 21, 2008)

It is becoming obvious to me that my idea of appropriate team tactics is very different from many others. I am referring to the etiquette concerning the support of the "team leader." Is a cycling team's purpose to objectively win the race or to throw their unconditional support behind one person from the beginning without regard to the statistical likelyhood of that tactic resulting in the team's win? Many people seem to believe the latter, which is not what appears to be the best stratagy to me (I know that I am not a DS, I am just making an observation and asking a question). 

When the wind ripped the peloton apart, it seems that it would have made sense to have a GC capable person in the front group. If Contador is truly more deserving than LA to have absolute undevided loyalty from his team, then he should be keeping his eyes open and not daydreaming through an ENTIRE TEAM riding away in a breakaway. The knowledgeable people in cycling discussed the danger of wind and the importance of staying IN THE FRONT through these windy, flat stages, yet an entire 9 man squad was ahead of Contador. I may be speculating too much (and people here will let me know if I am) but it seems like Alberto believes that he is entitled to chill out in the middle of the peloton while the rest of his team does EVERYTHING for him (as long as they don't work "too hard" and achieve a time that makes his lead seem less commanding). The intelligent and talented rider WEARING THE YELLOW JERSEY today managed to tear his way into that breakaway, so why couldn't AC?

I simply do not understand giving up tactical security to blindly rally behind one person. I suppose that some make the argument that the most secure tactic is to do just that, but I disagree. If there is a crash or Cadel has a bad day, then Silence Lotto is screwed. It makes so so much sense for a team with more than one strong GC man to keep them all in a position where they can sieze the day if necessary. If we want to talk about people being team players, then Contador should be delighted to have himself, Armstrong, and Leipheimer in the top 10. That is very good for team Astana.

If AC is so incredibly, rediculously good that he truly warrants the blind and unconditional support that he believes he should have, then he will demolish LA's time in the mountains and the tiny lead that LA has over him will be irrelevant. If he is unable to do that, then LA deserves the win because he is the fastest and smartest man on the team. This is a race, isn't it? Maybe Hincapie was on to something when he called out the peloton for playing patty-cake instead of racing. 

In absolutely no way whatsoever would it have been good for Astana for LA to leave the breakaway to "assist" AC in a vain attempt at catching them. 

Just my opinion.


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## mohair_chair (Oct 3, 2002)

Travis said:


> 178 Dmitriy Muravyev (Kaz) 15.52
> 
> the token Kaz is already 15 minutes down on stage 3. That pick is the real joke


This is part of Astana's two-front pincer strategy. By holding both ends of the GC, they can perform a classic double envelopment, based on Hannibal's defeat of the Romans at Cannae in the Second Punic War.


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## JSR (Feb 27, 2006)

mohair_chair said:


> This is part of Astana's two-front pincer strategy. By holding both ends of the GC, they can perform a classic double envelopment, based on Hannibal's defeat of the Romans at Cannae in the Second Punic War.


Ha Ha! The Kazakh guy is riding at the pace of an elephant! He may make it accross the alps, but unlike Hannibal, he won't be in the fight.

JSR


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## JohnHemlock (Jul 15, 2006)

sometimerider said:


> Exactly.


+1. Graham Watson knows where his bread is buttered!


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## 55x11 (Apr 24, 2006)

thechriswebb said:


> It is becoming obvious to me that my idea of appropriate team tactics is very different from many others. I am referring to the etiquette concerning the support of the "team leader." Is a cycling team's purpose to objectively win the race or to throw their unconditional support behind one person from the beginning without regard to the statistical likelyhood of that tactic resulting in the team's win? Many people seem to believe the latter, which is not what appears to be the best stratagy to me (I know that I am not a DS, I am just making an observation and asking a question).
> 
> When the wind ripped the peloton apart, it seems that it would have made sense to have a GC capable person in the front group. If Contador is truly more deserving than LA to have absolute undevided loyalty from his team, then he should be keeping his eyes open and not daydreaming through an ENTIRE TEAM riding away in a breakaway. The knowledgeable people in cycling discussed the danger of wind and the importance of staying IN THE FRONT through these windy, flat stages, yet an entire 9 man squad was ahead of Contador. I may be speculating too much (and people here will let me know if I am) but it seems like Alberto believes that he is entitled to chill out in the middle of the peloton while the rest of his team does EVERYTHING for him (as long as they don't work "too hard" and achieve a time that makes his lead seem less commanding). The intelligent and talented rider WEARING THE YELLOW JERSEY today managed to tear his way into that breakaway, so why couldn't AC?
> 
> ...


I agree with a lot of things you said, and I frankly suspect the whole "Astana rift" and "who is on first?" has been way overblown. Today's development benefits Contador in the long run.

I still think Lance will not be able to keep up with Contador, Schleck and others in the mountains, losing minutes. Contador has no reason to attack others, and neither does Armstrong, so they will both follow others and the whole "leadership" thing will sort itself out naturally in a few key stages - possibly first real mountains stage.

Meanwhile, having Armstrong up there in 3rd overall presents interesting possibilities for team tactics (shennanagans even?) for Bruyneel and confuses the rest of the field. If I am Contador, things are going pretty well so far - he is lulling others into false sense of confusion.


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## PdxMark (Feb 3, 2004)

55x11 said:


> If I am Contador, things are going pretty well so far - he is lulling others into false sense of confusion.


Republicans have adopted the same tactic in US national politics.


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## williethewaiter (Nov 25, 2008)

SamDC said:


> Someone or someones mentioned that LA sat at the back of the line reaping the benefits but doing no work. I think this photo shows otherwise.
> 
> http://www.grahamwatson.com/gw/imagedocs.nsf/PhotosTest/09tdfSt3-018000


haha that's a photo of the back of hte bunch!

Look at the guys behind him - it's the end of teh bunch.. half the guys behind him are the remainder of the break!

Laughable.


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## WeakMite (Feb 20, 2005)

I thought this was interesting (online bookies in europe)...

*After stage 2:*











*After stage 3:*










(from this page: https://www.oddschecker.com/other-sports/cycling/tour-de-france/win-market )


I think it's interesting to monitor the moves of the dudes who have to put the big $$$ on the line... in contrast to the opinions of the cycling meida.


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## go do it (Sep 12, 2007)

bookies are wrong a lot


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## uzziefly (Jul 15, 2006)

Lance Armstrong via Twitter said:


> Morale at the team dinner is very high and everyone is motivated for the TTT, unlike what others may think


There...


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## uzziefly (Jul 15, 2006)

danl1 said:


> "Service Unavailable" is enough?


Firefox works all the time.


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## uzziefly (Jul 15, 2006)

mohair_chair said:


> Is uzziefly sending a message to TheDon?


You betcha!


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## uzziefly (Jul 15, 2006)

Len J said:


> This pic says it all to me.....
> 
> Len


Contador looks like he's 40 years old in that shot while Lance looks like well, in his early 30s perhaps. 

Says it all for sure.


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## Wborgers (Oct 6, 2008)

Pretty good day if Astana objective is to put 2 on the podium and AC is strongest rider in the race


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## WeakMite (Feb 20, 2005)

go do it said:


> bookies are wrong a lot


...just a little less than everybody else.

;-)


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## weltyed (Feb 6, 2004)

odds arent set based on what the bookies think will happen, but what they think the public will bet on.


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