# Dear TiT training group on Monitor pass today(sunday):



## RedRex (Oct 24, 2004)

Dear group,

As we were driving back from Bishop this morning after completing the Eastern Sierra Double Century, we noticed on the backside of Monitor group after group after group of cyclists, many wearing purple jerseys, riding side-by-side. This struck me as odd. After thinking about it, I have a suggestion:

Riding side-by-side in the open road seems like a terribly inefficient way to take up the entire lane. I noticed that when one cyclist rides alongside another cyclist, only 2/3 of the lane is filled up by these two cyclists. In other words, there is still 1/3 of the lane left to fill! Therefore, I would recommend in the future, for TiT leaders to instruct their riders to no longer ride side-by-side, but to instead ride side-by-side-by-side, lining up THREE cyclists rather than two. This way, the entire lane can be taken up by the group, and no automobile can use this lane! This seems like a most efficient way to take up the entire road, ensuring that no other vehicles can possibly use that lane.

If this obviously superior suggestion gains momentum, you might in the future try to slowly incorporate SIX cyclists riding side-by-side. This way, both lanes can be filled with cyclists, and automobiles will be unable to dangerously swerve into oncoming traffic as they were forced to do today.


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## Cruzer2424 (Feb 8, 2005)

Sarcasm? 

Serious? 

...

Troll?!?

... I really can't tell.


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## Crampandgoslow (Dec 27, 2005)

RedRex said:


> ...Therefore, I would recommend in the future, for TiT leaders to instruct their riders to no longer ride side-by-side, but to instead ride side-by-side-by-side, lining up THREE cyclists rather than two. This way, the entire lane can be taken up by the group, and no automobile can use this lane! This seems like a most efficient way to take up the entire road, ensuring that no other vehicles can possibly use that lane....


:hand:

Paraphrasing Capt Ramius in Hunt For Red October, "We must give these TiT riders
a wide berth." :mad2:


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## LouD-Reno (Mar 28, 2006)

Having passed literally thousands of TiT riders on the 2 centuries I've done this year, I would have to argue against going to a 3 (or 6) TiT policy.... Over the course of these rides I have observed many, many, BIG TiT riders.... so big in fact, that I don't believe 3 would fit in a lane.... and you know, while riding single file makes sense for the rest of us, doesn't it just seem kinda, umm, just natural, for the TiT riders to travel, well, you know, in pairs ??? :ciappa:


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## thinkcooper (Jan 5, 2005)

I guess even the best riders revert to impatient drivers when they get behind the wheel. :aureola: 

Out of those many groups of TNT riders, you were probably looking at half that didn't even ride before January, and are now slogging across Sierra passes. Not too shabby an accomplishment. Another tidbit, each of them is raising a minimum of $3500 for the Leukemia Lymphoma Society. So between raising a lot of funds for a good cause, and producing/training a slew of enthusiastic new riders stretching far beyond their normal day to day, I'd give that green and purple jersey organization a rousing thumbs up. 

Take up all six lanes with bikes? Awesome idea. :thumbsup:

edited to clarify - they are each raising a min of $3500, not $2500 - Bravo!


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## snapdragen (Jan 28, 2004)

thinkcooper said:


> So between raising a lot of funds for a good cause, and producing/training a slew of enthusiastic new riders stretching far beyond their normal day to day, I'd give that green and purple jersey organization a rousing thumbs up.


There's a chance that was a friend of mine's group - she's been a TNT coach for a few years now. Trains them for the Death Ride

:thumbsup:


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## RedRex (Oct 24, 2004)

*"I guess even the best riders revert to impatient drivers when they get behind the wheel. "*


Impatient? No. We were out for a leisurly drive, one that included multiple blind corners which were filled with two-abreast cyclists, concluding of course with a dangerous brake or swerve into oncoming traffic. 

Impatient? No. 

Dumbfounded? Yes.


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## thinkcooper (Jan 5, 2005)

RedRex said:


> *"I guess even the best riders revert to impatient drivers when they get behind the wheel. "*
> 
> 
> Impatient? No. We were out for a leisurly drive, one that included multiple blind corners which were filled with two-abreast cyclists, concluding of course with a dangerous brake or swerve into oncoming traffic.
> ...


Maybe it's just me, but when you mentioned the two abreast lines, it sure sounded like your concern was them impeding your progress, and that they were TNT riders (as mentioned in the thread's title) it made the whole thing even worse somehow. (I was guessing that you were considering that TNT riders weren't "real" riders or something like that)

Anyway, my apologies for those assumptions. It just sounded like they were in your way.


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## maillotpois (Mar 28, 2007)

snapdragen said:


> There's a chance that was a friend of mine's group - she's been a TNT coach for a few years now. Trains them for the Death Ride
> 
> :thumbsup:



Snap's right. I haven't posted here before but feel compelled to post - and apologize!  

I am one of the head coaches for the Redwood Wine country TNT group. We're training people for the Death Ride - in exchange they raise $3500 for leukemia research and patient services. 

There were several TNT groups out at Markleeville this weekend. Our group did not ride Monitor, and we were not the group you saw, but on behalf of TNT I am disappointed to hear a complaint like this. Speaking for our group, our coaches all work VERY hard to coach our riders in safety - respecting cars, riding predictably and single file. Of course we take the lane on the descents when it is safer to do so, but for climbs our riders should all be single file unless passing. 

Unfortunately, each group is coached differently, and the priorities may not have been emphasized appropriately. (I'm one of those cyclists who gets mad when I see cyclists disobeying rules of the road because I KNOW in the end it works against us and gives drivers an excuse for road rage, etc.).

Thanks for posting the input, and we'll keep trying harder. I will pass this on to the other TNT team management as well.

Sarah


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## parity (Feb 28, 2006)

> concluding of course with a dangerous brake or swerve into oncoming traffic.


Maybe you should have slowed down. It sounds like you were speeding if you needed to brake and swerve in a dangerous manner. Your driving speed should be based on the conditions on the road, not what the maximum speed limit is.


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## RedRex (Oct 24, 2004)

parity said:


> Maybe you should have slowed down.


Give......me.......a.......break.

I'm a cautious, mature driver, in an old, slow vehicle.

We are the first group to stand up and shout, "Share the road!", yet "The Entitlement Factor" is alive and well within our culture; "MY lane."

I shudder to think how clueless (sorry) one must be to ride their bike side-by-side while ascending a twisty mountain road with blind corners. It's just absolutely incredible that one could not connect the dots on their own.

It sickens me, and ruins it for the rest of us who have to encounter those same drivers further down the road.

I'm not talking one or two people, I'm talking it was The Norm. Example after example after example.


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## Ridgetop (Mar 1, 2005)

Lots of people ride 2 abreast on this road but when it is just a pair they normally can hear and get out of the way, but no guarantees. I think the problem I have seen (since I ride Monitor a lot) is that the TINT riders get behind or in front of the coach and kind of forget all the rules as they are socializing up the hill. I have nothing against them, and have seen the TINT riders both doing it right and wrong. . .just like about 10,000 other riders I've seen up there. As for the road itself, the only place with majorly blind corners should have drivers slowing down enough anyway as there are often people, kids, dogs, cows, deer, rabbits, squirrels, mice, grasshoppers, bees, and ants that quite often are on the lane hiking, eating, wandering, etc. 

Still, for safety sake, it probably is best to go single file as far as riding.


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## kmac (Feb 13, 2007)

RedRex said:


> Give......me.......a.......break.
> 
> I'm a cautious, mature driver, in an old, slow vehicle.
> 
> ...


If your intent truly is to be taken seriously, I'd suggest losing the sarcasm of your original post. I'm not sure what audience or reaction you were really aiming for, but the tone certainly was not one that was going to get a very favorable response in a cycling forum. Say whatever you want to say however you want to say it, but don't be surprised by the response that you get.


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## Gee3 (Jan 31, 2006)

RedRex said:


> Dear group,
> 
> As we were driving back from Bishop this morning after completing the Eastern Sierra Double Century, we noticed on the backside of Monitor group after group after group of cyclists, many wearing purple jerseys, riding side-by-side. This struck me as odd. After thinking about it, I have a suggestion:
> 
> ...


RedRex - Beyond the sarcasm that everyone doesn't seem to care for I agree with you. Common courtesy is a lost art these days. Many riders and groups I've been with have always yelled "car back" so the group ahead can move to the side to let cars go by. 

I see it as a safety issue for both the cyclists and the drivers. The sooner the two part ways the better life will be for both sides. Plus riding behind a can spewing exhaust while trying to get around other cyclists isn't fun either.

I've also come across riders that are just oblivious to the world around them while chatting up a fellow rider both while I'm in my car and while I'm riding yelling "car back" behind them. 

I'm all for cyclists rights being that I am one myself. But it still disturbs me that some folks believe that they OWN the road. That goes for both drivers and cyclists.

Just move to the side for 2 seconds while the car goes by and you can resume your conversation. People talk about road rage... well, this is one way you can take responsiblity and reduce this problem. Show a guy some common courtesy and he may learn to respect your fellow riders down the road. Or you may actually defuse a situation or two. 

Remember common courtesy goes a long way.


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## sellsworth (Apr 6, 2006)

I happen to have driven over Monitor on Sunday. My kids and I had been camping at Grover Hot Springs. The TNT crowd was climbing the west side of the pass. Indeed many of the riders were riding next to each other and in the middle of the road. It was a bit annoying and I reminded my kids that riding in such a manner is not a courteous thing to do. But we got caught up in the excitement of all of the riders being out there and we ended up pulling off the road to cheer for them. Having to pass them in the oncoming lane ended being a minor nuisance at best.


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## LouD-Reno (Mar 28, 2006)

"Out of those many groups of TNT riders, you were probably looking at half that didn't even ride before January, and are now slogging across Sierra passes. Not too shabby an accomplishment. Another tidbit, each of them is raising a minimum of $3500 for the Leukemia Lymphoma Society. "


Ok, all sarcasm aside, (well, almost all...) Some of us have been slogging over these Sierra passes for years.... and while many of us don't use riding as a vehicle for raising $$$ for "causes", that didn't used to mean squat. What counted was just being able to get out and ride on the roads we love, in peace, and in safety. I ride up and down the passes around Markleeville alot, usually alone, sometimes with my kids.... most of the vehicles on the roads are locals (at least during the week) and are friendly towards cyclists. Local cyclists appreciate that, and I know I go out of my way to deserve their courtesy. I've also ridden in popular areas in N. Cal. where I have experienced outright hostility from motorists, and where I would hesitate to have my children join me on the road... We don't need that around here, I don't care how much $$ is raised, or how great a personal accomplishment it may be.... it ain't worth screwin' up one of the greatest road cycling areas I've ever pedaled. :nono:


" I guess even the best riders revert to impatient drivers when they get behind the wheel." 

Again... and the worst (drivers) become enraged at the slightest provocation..... we don't need that around here.....


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## LouD-Reno (Mar 28, 2006)

" I guess even the best riders revert to impatient drivers when they get behind the wheel. :aureola: "

Yeah, and the worst (drivers) become enraged at the slightest provocation..... we don't need that around here.....


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## thinkcooper (Jan 5, 2005)

LouD-Reno said:


> " I guess even the best riders revert to impatient drivers when they get behind the wheel. :aureola: "
> 
> Yeah, and the worst become enraged at the slightest provocation..... we don't need that around here.....


Yep, I agree, it's the last thing any of us need out on the road, another angry driver.


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## rensho (Aug 5, 2003)

I thought it was a pretty good post. Obviously trying to make a point, and some humor and sarcasm to boot.

My local riding folks often ride side by side, or take up more road than needed. I find myself reminding folks on rides more than I care to.


+10000 on the 'no more angry drivers on the road' sentiments.


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## CoLiKe20 (Jan 30, 2006)

LouD-Reno said:


> " I guess even the best riders revert to impatient drivers when they get behind the wheel. :aureola: "
> 
> Yeah, and the worst become enraged at the slightest provocation..... we don't need that around here.....


yup. if it annoys a cyclist-driver to see other cyclists hogging the road, imagine how much it annoys regular drivers.


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