# thinking about upgrading wheels, how much of a difference would it make?



## Winston Mcfail (Mar 7, 2011)

i have very entry level wheels, alex da22 rims laced to formula hubs, and am considering upgrading as ive read that wheels should be the first upgrade on an entry level bike. i have my sights on mavic cxp33 rims laced to ultegra hubs, im just not sure how much of a difference i would notice? i just started riding and i weigh 225 lbs if that matters.

any advice?


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## Mike T. (Feb 3, 2004)

Winston Mcfail said:


> i have very entry level wheels, alex da22 rims laced to formula hubs, and am considering upgrading as ive read that wheels should be the first upgrade on an entry level bike. i have my sights on mavic cxp33 rims laced to ultegra hubs, im just not sure how much of a difference i would notice? i just started riding and i weigh 225 lbs if that matters.
> any advice?


Here are some reviews on your Alex rims here at Road Bike *Review* -

http://www.roadbikereview.com/cat/wheels/rims/alex/PRD_420653_2488crx.aspx

You can Google the rims to get more details but I don't imagine they're much more than an average rim. The hubs are ok too but nothing special. What is probably the main thing is how well they were built - and that is important. Good parts assembled poorly will make for a short wheel life.

CXP33 are good rims but fairly heavy but then you're not a light person either. Ultegra hubs are excellent. Make sure you get good spokes and you should go with something like DT-Swiss double butted in 2.0/1.8/2.0 thickness. They make for a better wheel than straight gauge DT Champ spokes.

I'm sorry to say that you won't notice much, if any, of a difference over your current wheels in any ride or speed improvements. The CXP33/Ultegra wheels will be better quality though - if they are well built. The wheelbuilding info in my sig will tell you what a well built wheel consists of. Forum sponsor BWW sells that wheel (and many others) right here and they will be perfectly built - 

http://www.bicyclewheelwarehouse.com/road/700c/riders-232-or-less/mavic-cxp33-ultegra/prod_26.html

BWW are available to advise you on what is the best rim for your weight and purpose.

What will make a big difference though is the correct choice of tire at the right pressures. You should be riding at least 25mm wide tires inflated to about 85-100psi. Most bikes come with 23mm wide tires and the high pressures (100psi+) needed to avoid pinch-flats (when the tire bottoms out on a bump) and they will give you a harsh unforgiving ride. I'd suggest good quality tires (Continental, Michelin, Vittoria etc) and as wide as your frame/fork will take - 25 or 28mm width.

You could also take the current wheels to a competent wheelbuilder and have them checked over and adjusted for correct build. Then they might last you for years. New wheels are great but don't buy them for the wrong reasons.


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## TomH (Oct 6, 2008)

If you have poorly tensioned wheels, it feels like a huge dramatic change. Even re-tensioning an existing wheelset makes a difference worth doing. Maybe if you timed the distance and quantified it, it wouldnt seem like much _on paper_, but you'll notice it. 

Well built wheels also last much much longer. 

We all have different budgets, cant speak too much for your money. If the price of the wheels isnt a big deal for you, treat yourself! You'll enjoy it.


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## dphoenix (Nov 11, 2007)

I noticed a big difference when I upgraded my wheel set. My Jamis Eclipse came with Mavic Ksyrium Equipe. When I climbed out the saddle the front wheel would flex so much the front tire sometimes would rub the fork. I had had a custom wheel built using Campy hubs and Velocity Fusion rims. No more flex and the Campy hubs seem to roll better.


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## AndrwSwitch (May 28, 2009)

I'd say it depends on how bad your current wheels are. Certainly worth tensioning, if they're not right. My experience of low-end Formula front hubs is that they don't last very long before they start to get pretty rough, especially if you ride in the wet. I've always had at least a Shimano 400-level rear hub.

If your current hubs and rims are fine, the difference is not going to be that big. According to the manufacturers, the CXP 33s are actually heavier than the DA22s. If your wheels are damaged, it's going to make more of a difference.

In your shoes, I'd leave them alone if there's nothing actually wrong with them, fix them if there's something wrong that can be fixed, and throw them away only if they're irreparably damaged. Treat yourself to some really nice tires if you don't need to throw money at the wheels themselves yet.


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## Winston Mcfail (Mar 7, 2011)

thanks for the replies.

i guess that is good news, it saves me about $400, but it is a little confusing after reading that the wheels are the biggest upgrade you can make. i tend to get upgrade crazy with my mountain bikes, going to try sand avoid that with the road bike and just ride. 

so i should try out some 28 tires at a slightly lower pressure? any specific tires recommended? want something light and tough. i know, pick one right?


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## Hank Stamper (Sep 9, 2009)

Winston Mcfail said:


> thanks for the replies.
> 
> i guess that is good news, it saves me about $400, *but it is a little confusing after reading that the wheels are the biggest upgrade you can make*. i tend to get upgrade crazy with my mountain bikes, going to try sand avoid that with the road bike and just ride.
> 
> so i should try out some 28 tires at a slightly lower pressure? any specific tires recommended? want something light and tough. i know, pick one right?


Other than tires......they are the biggest performance upgrade you can make. Someone saying you won't noticed much difference doesn't make that false.....it means all the other potential upgrades are even smaller by comparision.


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## AndrwSwitch (May 28, 2009)

Hopefully it's not too sore a subject, but I'd ask how much your upgrades have improved your mountain bikes, assuming you're replacing a part for a performance improvement, rather than because it's broken or to make the bike fit you better. As in, if everything on the bike was covered in a brown paper bag and you only knew what inputs you were giving it and how it was riding, how much better is it than when you started?

At this point, all of my bikes have had at least a few parts replaced. I wouldn't think of any of what I've done to my 'cross bike as upgrading, except, maybe, the brake shoes (which seems trivial, honestly, despite the difference it makes.)

I don't like 28mm tires on bikes I ride athletically, but I do on bikes I ride with a load. I typically weigh about 155 lb this year, less if I'm riding and racing more, so I use fairly low pressure. I can already ride me 23s at a pressure that's comfortable for me. I don't really notice a difference between 23mm and 25mm tires, and 28s feel either harsh or squirrelly to me unless there's something extra, like a pannier full of text books, sitting over them.

There are a few things that aren't exactly upgrades but will really improve your riding experience, though. If you never got around to making your bike really fit you, do that. If you're not sure what you're doing, consider paying for a fit. Ask around locally and find someone good - all fitters are not created equal, and now that throwing insane amounts of money at cycling is fashionable, there are a lot of people hanging out a shingle and hoping some of it lands at their business. Shoes and pedals, if you're not already riding something performance-oriented. A saddle you really like. Handlebars you really like - you're proposing to spend hours at a time with your hands on these things, they may as well be a shape you'd want to do that with. A fitter will be able to help you out on the saddle and handlebars, and probably even the shoes and pedals, if you decide to see one and you don't know what you're doing with selecting these.

EDIT: Another thing that I think is really worthwhile is going to events. Between travel and registration, these can cost money, but I almost always have a lot of fun and they give my season some shape and rhythm, so I also ride more, and get more out of my riding, on other days.


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## macming (Dec 2, 2004)

I'm almost your weight, and I recently went crazy and picked up two nice wheelsets. Got a set of Industry 9 road hubs laced to a set of Reynolds Forty Six carbon tubular rims as my nice set. As well as a set of Stan's Alpha 340 tubeless rims laced to a set of CK classics. 

I got the CK hubs used for pretty cheap, Stan's rims for about $100 a piece and spokes. I'd go that route if I was in your shoes. We are about the same weight, and tech support from Stan's said as long as we run a 32 spoke rim, it should be strong enough to hold our weight. 

Then you can go tubeless at the same time. I converted a set of road wheels to UST, and IMO, it is a lot more comfortable yet just as efficient. I tossed in some Stan's in my tires for added puncture protection. It's a win/win IMO. The CK/340 wheelset will be my every day wheels.


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## TomH (Oct 6, 2008)

Stans doesnt even have enough faith in the alloy they use to approve the industry standard ~120 kgf on the rims.. coupled with being the lightest rim on the market.. something just has to give. Im kinda expecting a whole slew of them to start being posted up broken any day now.


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## ColoRoadie (Aug 5, 2010)

TomH said:


> Stans doesnt even have enough faith in the alloy they use to approve the industry standard ~120 kgf on the rims.. coupled with being the lightest rim on the market.. something just has to give. Im kinda expecting a whole slew of them to start being posted up broken any day now.



Wow, that's pretty harsh. The grade 8 bolts that hold my turbo down are cranked to significantly more torque than my campagnolo hardware....should I assume Campy doesn't have any faith in their hardware....or is it that they've engineered it to work at a lower torque since higher numbers are overkill on a chainring? Then again, if all the 340's running around out there start to grenade...I'll be the first to congratulate you on your soothsaying. I do hope you are very wrong though...since mine show up tomorrow.


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## TomH (Oct 6, 2008)

Your turbocharger bolts are quite different than a wheel  Apples to apples, stans doesnt approve their rims for the same stresses that everyone else does. Rim deflection will be pretty much constant until one side goes slack, so its not so much that they're engineered to do anything different, as nothing different is occurring.

I dont think the lack of tension (assuming an appropriate hub is used) is necessarily the problem.. all though it does make quite a few hubs not suitable. I think its fishy that they cant take the load. Other builders have reported that stans rims start taco'ing in on themselves at higher tensions. 

Just my opinion, and my speculation based on what I know about wheels. By all means, I genuinely hope your set works out perfectly for you, but I think recommending that rim with all its quirks for someone at 225lbs is a very bad idea.


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## ColoRoadie (Aug 5, 2010)

I'm not qualified to recommend a rim to anyone so I'll stay out of that one and yield to the manufacturers recommendations. I would love to hear more about 'all it's quirks' though, as I've done a ton of reading about them and short of one rim that developed cracks after 6000 miles and your description of the quirks....I have not found anything bad written about them. If builders are reporting the rim taco'ing at tensions the manufacturer says they should not be built to....is that the rims fault or the builders?

I'm not trying to be argumentative at all. Just trying to learn what you have already...I hope it comes across that way. I am certainly no expert in wheel building.


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## macming (Dec 2, 2004)

Stan's rims are not quoted to go over 100 kgf in their MTB line either, yet no one really complains about them.

Alum rims are pretty cheap IMO, I can always put on an set of Open Pros if the 340s don't work out. 

I'm a die hard fan of tubeless setups from my MTB background, and I really think tubeless will significantly improve riding comfort, esp to non-racers.


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## TomH (Oct 6, 2008)

Theres quite a few people who wont build stans mtn rims either. Also, their mountain line isnt drastically light. The popular flow is 480g, right around average for that type of rim. The alpha is drastically lighter than everything.


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## macming (Dec 2, 2004)

TomH said:


> Theres quite a few people who wont build stans mtn rims either. Also, their mountain line isnt drastically light. The popular flow is 480g, right around average for that type of rim. The alpha is drastically lighter than everything.


You do have a good point. I'm about 210 pounds, and have ridden 425 gram DT4.2ds, Bontrager Race X lite with rims around the same weight. Since then, I have moved onto the heavier 819s.

On the road, I have gotten 4000 miles out of a DA 7800 prebuilt set without issues. If you are careful, you can still get away with a lot with light gear.

I really like the UST setup on my roadie, and unfortunately Stan's rim is the only UST rim you can buy seperately. Otherwise, you can also look into prebuilt Shimano or DT Swiss options. IMO, a good hubset with well designed flanges will also make a difference in the overall riding experience.

Wheels are definitely one of the best places to spend money on a bike


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