# My experience buying two BD bikes



## WheresWaldo (Nov 29, 2005)

Please note that these messages were posted before on the BikeForums and I am reposting them here to detail my _personal _experience with BD.

* First impressions (March 2006):*

The packing was typical of all bike manufacturers, except no bubble wrap in the box. Things were strapped together and wrapped in cardboard. The masking tape they used to hold the cardboard on dried up and left residue on the frame itself, it wasn't too hard to clean up.

Handlebars were too small for a 56cm frame. Tape job could have been better. Cables housings were too long. The RitcheyLogic Pro handlebars have an odd shape with almost no hand position at the bottom of the drops. 

The Ritchey Pro stem was also too short for the bike, it was 90mm. I am assuming that all the bikes here have the same stem and that their mention of Proportional sizing must mean in proportion to how many of one size they have in stock and not proportioned to the size of the frame.

Here is the worst part. When I pulled the fork off, there was a star nut in the carbon steerer tube. I guess it it easier to assemble that way but that is not how you build a quality bike.

The frame was actually really nice with some exceptions. The paint at the rear dropouts was rather brittle, and as the bike was stripped some of the paint cracked. So I pulled off the removeable derailleur hanger and stripped all the paint off. I will also pull some more paint off the other dropout. The bottom bracket was not faced properly and the threads needed to be chased. They did use anti-seize on the bottom bracket threads so that was a good thing. It is light, just 2.46 lbs bare frame 56cm. The clearcoat finish is very nice, there were no chips or scratches on the frame. The waterbottle bolts are alloy, but no grease or anti-seize were used on them. As a matter of fact no grease or anti-seize of any kind was to be found on any of the threaded surfaces except the BB. The fork seems nice enough, it is made by a company called Advanced Composites, it has a slightly odd profile and I wished the had layed up the CF with the overlap on the inside of the fork instead of on the outside. Still the star nut just kills me.

The Ritchey Protocols are a thing of beauty. They are light and seem to be well assembled. I will put my Park Tensionometer on the spokes later to see if they were tensioned properly. The rest of the Ritchey components were their Pro series, not the best, but not bad.

Ultegra is Ultegra, not much to say here. I did expect the cranks to be 172.5s, and they were, A+ for getting that one right. The pedals are some sort of single sided SPD type they look like some sort of cheap Taiwan ripoffs.

Props to BD for including red handlebar tape in the box. I don't know anything about the Kenda tires so I will not make any observations. I will reserve judgement on the saddle until later.

If I didn't know how to wrench, I would be very careful buying a Motobecane from BD or any other bike from an e-tailer. But all in all, with a few adjustments and some juditious replacement parts this will be a fine riding bike, and good looking too!


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## WheresWaldo (Nov 29, 2005)

*More Observations*

Here are some other observations. I mentioned before that the Ritchey components were in the PRO series. Well, the cheaper Le Champion SL has Ritchey WCS seatpost, stem and OS handlebars. The tires are better quality Vittoria Diamante Pro Lite vs Kenda Kaliente Lite. This I am sure is a cost cutting measure to keep the full carbon under the $2000 price point.

I weighed the tires they were 207g each not the 185g listed on the website.
The frame is actually lighter than advertised, I weighed it at 1115g (2.46 lbs) the website lists it at 2.7 lbs (1225g).
The fork is 330g cut w/starnut installed. That is OK for a carbon fork but not in the weight weenie range. The fork offset is not the same as listed on the Motobecane webpage, there they list offset as 45mm the fork has a sticker on it that lists is at 43mm. That actually does provide slightly more trail which might be the reason for others saying it is very stable on high speed descents.

I will have a better idea tomorrow after I pick up the frame at the LBS, just what kind of deal we really got.

I also have some thought on what will go and what will stay. What stays is the groupset, wheelset, frame, fork (for now), saddle (also for now). What goes are the tires (already replaced with the Diamante Pro Lite my daughter didn't want), stem (I have an EA70 120mm that is too long, but better than a 90mm), seatpost, handlebars, some of the cable housing (they are all too long). What gets added are FlightDeck computer mount, bottle cages (the carbon ones I had on the TST), aero saddlebag.


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## Dave Hickey (Jan 27, 2002)

Thank you for a very honest review. I would be more inclined to make a purchase after reading a review such as this.

No buying experience is perfect


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## WheresWaldo (Nov 29, 2005)

*Some changes made to the Immortal Force*

Okay here is what has changed. I replaced the bars with the FSA K-Wing. I also have these on my TST Titanium, they are extremely comfortable. They are not very light, nor are they even close to their advertised weight. They come out about 30g heavier than advertised. Replaced the stem with a Thomson X2 110mm 10°. Had BD replace the fork, as stated in an earlier post. Could not get the original fork so they sent me an XRP uncut fork. Replaced the crappy handlebar tape with black Cinelli cork. I had those bottle cages from my TST build. They were from PricePoint and had two slots cut into each side, I just used my Dremel to cut out the sides in it's entirety. I replaced the cages on the TST with King Titanium cages. Replaced the seatpost with a Token TK915 carbon post about 150g. I am very happpy with the quality of the Token seatpost and would not hesitate to buy another. I needed the black seat binder to replace the gold one on my TST so I had to get another black one, it is a Hope and is about 19g, I will be replacing the bolt with a Ti one and it will drop the weight to about 16.5g. Since I have a Cannondale Road Tandem and the only bike computer a Shimano equipped tandem owner should ever consider is a FlightDeck, I had to add the wireless FlightDeck mount to this bike also. The bag is a run of the mill Topeak Aero wedge, in which I carry a CO2 inflator, two cartridges, a spare tube, patch kit, and two Park tire irons. What makes this Immortal Force look really different is that I pulled off all the stickers from the Ritchey WCS Protocols. I used the Vittoria Diamante Pro Light tires that I pulled off my daughters Le Champion SL as she wanted tires that matched the red and black color scheme of her bike, that swap actually shaved off about 30g. I think it really makes a difference in the overall look. As I mentioned above I just got my new saddle, and took the pics just before it arrived. The saddle is a Selle Italia SLR Kit Carbon, listed at 125g, actual weight 131g. It is not the Carbonio, this one has full carbon rails, needs to be broken in, but looks awesome on the IF, will have to take a new picture. The pedals of course are Shimano Ultegras, there are lighter pedals out there, but I own 5 pairs of the Shimano SL style pedals. Also, last but not least a Shimano road Ti bolt kit and Token alloy chainring bolts from HBC. I stripped of the fugly chainstay protector and replaced it with a clear Lizard Skin and I also pulled off the headtube badge. Without the bag, bike is ready to roll out the door at 16.8 lbs. Took my first good long ride on her today. What I can say is that she is smooth and quiet. Soaks up the washboard roads we have here better than my TST. There is about a pound and a half difference between these two bikes and you can actually feel it while climbing and sprinting. This frame is a little smaller than the TST. If BD had this in 57cm, it would have been perfect. I may put the Ritchey WCS stem back on the bike, it is only -7° and would lift the handlebars just slightly, and it weighs less than the Thomson. I am a little saddle sore right now and just a little tired, if I have forgotten to mention anything, I apologize. I will try to do the ViperZ photo session with the IF sometime this weekend after I clean her up a bit. Stay tuned.


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## WheresWaldo (Nov 29, 2005)

Dave Hickey said:


> Thank you for a very honest review. I would be more inclined to make a purchase after reading a review such as this.
> 
> No buying experience is perfect


Dave I will be adding more info to this thread so everyone can get an entire picture. 

I have also tried to be very even and not a fanboy. I have always mentioned that if you do not know a thing about bikes, or wrenching then you would be better served at the LBS.


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## WheresWaldo (Nov 29, 2005)

*500 mile update*

500 mile update (July 2006):

Actually a little more than 500 miles. As many have read on this thread and others, I have purchased two Motobecane bikes from BD, this thread was started to make sure people were informed about the Immortal Force Carbon bikes. Here is my report.

One of the things I notice about every bike I have owned is that each one has it's own quirks and _idiosyncrasies_. You may call it character if you like. The Immortal Force certianly has a lot of character. I will start with some of the obvious things and then move on to things I replaced.

*Ritchey WCS Protocol Wheelset*
These wheels are fantastic, I just don't know how else to put it. They are not the stiffest wheels I have ever ridden, and I can get them to flex a little on out of the saddle climbs and sprints. Please temper that comment with the fact that I currently weigh 250# and put a lot of stress on bicycle components when I stand or mash big gears. They have not stayed perfectly true, but have been in an acceptable range of just about ±1mm from true. The excepting was yesterday when I accidentally ran into the back of Bittersweet's bike at about a 15mph delta. That left one spoke bent and a wheel that had about a 3mm wobble, a few small adjustments with a spoke wrench and it was good as new. If I had a choice of wheelsets with this bike I am not sure I would change out the Ritchey's.

*Shimano Ultegra Components*
There is nothing here to find wrong with these components. The shifting is crisp and virtually silent. The brifters have a light action without being sloppy. The brakes are firm and can be easily modulated. I do know that many people think the Ultegra/Dura-Ace brake pads are very good for an OEM pad, but I did switch mine out for Kool-Stop black pads (I only use ths bike when it's dry out). The only thing that I will replace with a non-Shimano part when it wears is the chain. More than likely with a KMC or Wipperman 10S chain, or maybe the new SRAM chains, when they become available. I dont like the idea of the single use replacement pin, that Shimano uses, and even brand new the chain measures halfway to the replacement measurement on the Park CC3 Chain Checker.

*Immortal Force Frameset*
It is smooth and very stable at speed, maybe even a little slow in it's steering. Coming from a Klein with very responsive steering the IM is just a little more sedate. It certainly does smooth out all but the roughest roads. I am having no problems with frame creaks, or with frame flex. The finish on the frame is holding up rather well. I have my fair share of scuff marks on the frame, but the clearcoat has not developed any cracks nor has there been any yellowing. I would like to see a version with a few less graphics, but since I am not interested in sanding the clearcoat off, I will live with it the way it is. As I become a stonger and leaner rider I am finding myself spending more time out of the saddle climbing and sprinting. During those occasions I do not feel bottom bracket flex nor do I get any extraneous chain rub. It is as stiff a frame as I currently need, not nearly as stiff as the Klein or TST or the CDale Tandem for that matter, but it also is compliant when it comes to rough roads.

*Selle Italia Kit Carbonio Saddle*
It took about 100 miles to get it dialed in, but I have been in that saddle as long as four hours at a time and it is one of the most comfortable saddles I have owned (with the exception of the Selle San Marco Regal). It does squeak just a little if you do not get the seatpost clamp torqued down enough, but once I solved that problem, not a peep. If I had to do it again, I would probably just go with a Selle Italia SLR, cheaper and no worries that my fat butt will break the carbon rails. This saddle was a replacement for the cheap saddle included with the IM.

*FSA K-Wing Carbon Handlebars*
This is one upgrade I would probably not do again. Don't get me wrong, the bars are nice, I like the hand positions, but they are also heavy. It is hard not to get the to stop creaking without fear of over-torqueing the stem or brifters. Perhaps the K-Force bars might be a good alternative. I simply don't know how anyone could use or would want to use that Ritchey BioMax handlebars, they were completely the wrong profile with no hand position for riding in the drops, they had to go.

*Michelin Pro Race 2 Tires*
I like these tires, they provide an adequate balance between traction, low rolling resistance and tire life. If I change to any other tire, and I am not planning to any time soon, I might give the Vittoria Rubino Pro and extended roadtest. The Michelins of course, were a replacement for the tires that came on the IM. I have since moved those Kenda tires to the TT bike I am building.

*Overall*
If I had the opportunity to need a full carbon bike and BD still has this one for sale, I would buy it again. It certainly has been worth every penny that I paid for it and even those extra pennies spent on upgrades. The fact that I was able to purchase this on one of BD ten day sales was just icing on the cake. Easy to ride, even at my weight! Easy to climb and sprint with, without that scary feeling that your bike is a noodle. No creaks and groans that sometimes develop make for some pleasureable riding on those quiet country lanes. The Ritchey rear hub is much quieter that the Speedcific hubs I have on my Mike Garcia built wheels. The bike has certainly held up so far under the stresses that a 250# man puts on it. I will say that I did wish the bike would have come in different frame size increments, as I could have used a 57cm or even a 58cm frame. anyway it was not a hassle fitting the bike to my body size and riding style. With my one experience with customer service handled promptly and to my satisfaction, I would have no reservations buying another bike from BD. I would still suggest that anyone who is new to cycling or does not know how or does not want to wrench their own bikes would be better served by their LBS rather than an internet retailler.


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## WheresWaldo (Nov 29, 2005)

*1000 mile update (August 2006)*

I just completed 1300 miles this year and 1000 of them has been on my Motobecane Immortal Force. This is an update to the first impressions thread that had quite a following earlier this year.

Okay, here is the good stuff. The Immortal Force has been a wonderful riding experience. After the few changes I made to the bike, which included tires, fork, seatpost, saddle, pedals and handlebars. The ride is very stable and does not appear to suffer from high speed shimmy, although I have only gone a fraction over 40 mph on only a few occasions. I still believe it is a stiff frame. Although I have steadily lost weight while riding, I did start out rinding the Immortal Force in excess of 275 pounds. At 230 pounds it is much easier to handle and it is much more compliant. By my standards it is not a twitchy bike, unlike my Klein. With regard to comfort, it even surpasses my TST. The Ritchey WCS Protocol wheels have held up very well and the only truing needed was when I accidentally ran into the back of *Bittersweet*'s bike during one of our rides. The investment was well worth the effort involved in tearing down and reassembling, and it was even worth the hassle from BD naysayers.

The not so good stuff. It took me a little longer than I thought to dial in the correct riding position. As this is a smaller frame, 56cm measured the same way Trek measures their frames. I really could have used a 57cm or even a 58cm if it was offered, alas they only come in 3cm increments. As I mentioned in the original impressions thread and above I did feel I needed to change a few things, so it was not perfect for me as it came out of the box. Other nits, the Ritchey WCS Protocol wheels, every time I stand and place more weight on the front wheel it starts to creak. It does not come out of true, but it must be flexing enough to make noise. I have tested the spoke tension with my Park guage and all the spokes are properly tensioned. but it is a little disconcerting to hear the creaking. The Ultegra brifters have an annoying habit of rattling really bad on washboard roads if you are not riding on the hoods. It is really loud and produces a lot of vibration.

If I had to do it over what I would do differently is, not use the Selle Italia Kit Carbonio saddle, I would save some money and just get an SLR. I like my saddle but I do not need a saddle that really weighs 131g. I also would not use the carbon FSA K-Wing bars again, also saving some cash on the aluminum FSA K-Force bars instead. I love the shape and the had positions, but I did not save any weight and it creaks on occasion an needs to be retorqued. The saddle also suffers from the occasional creaking. I would probably also get another set of everyday wheels and save the Ritchey's for special ride days. I would also use a 12-27 rear cassette instead of the 11-23.

All in all, I am very happy with the performance of the Immortal Force and do not regret buying and riding it for one moment. If anyone with some wrenching ability and the knowledge necessary to size a bike for themselves needed a bike I wouldn't hesitate to recommend the Immortal Force.

If there are any specific questions about component or frameset that anyone has I would be happy to answer. I will try to give the answer as accurately as I can and without bias. If I don't like something I will say so.

Finished my 1000 mile milestone, and looking forward to the next 1000 miles.


_Clickable thumbnail. not dial-up friendly_


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## WheresWaldo (Nov 29, 2005)

*My first BD purchase was my daughters bike*

It was a LeChampion SL here is the rambling experience:

First off, I am not trying to start a flame war about any online reseller of cycling equipment, so don't start. My daughter and I are training together this spring and summer to do our first century together this fall. She needed a new bicycle as the Cannondale Caad2 48cm w/650c wheels was just too small for her. So with the utmost respect for the postings of *Ostumi* and *FMW* and the success they had with their Motobecanes, I purchased for her the Motobecane Le Champion SL 49cm in Gloss Black. It was simply too hard to pass up the price and I have no problems with Asian assembly or framesets. An Ultegra equiped bike, American Classic 420 wheelset, carbon fork and crankset at a great price. I already know there are a few things I will have to change. *Ostumi* finally had a good picture of the pink bar tape, I have been informed that has to go. The saddle will be changed for the Terry Butterfly Ti that she has now.

*Feb 6th*
As expected I got an email from BikesDirect today. It ws a confirmation that Lindsay (I assume a CSR for BD) was processing my order. It also included a thank you and a UPS tracking number. It seems to be a form email of some kind since I was also thanked for "bidding on this auction." There was mention that complete bicycles need some assembly and minor adjustment, their estimate was 25 minutes. There were links to *Park Tools* and *Jim Langley's* sites. and a link to the Motobecane manual.

The second email I received to day was from UPS QuantumView with the same tracking number and a scheduled delivery date of February 9th.

So far it has been a painless process, let's see when the bicycle arrives. BTW, I haven't told her mother yet! That part is scarier than buying a bicycle online.

*Feb 9th*
Motobecane is here. I will post some pictures tomorrow. First impressions: It is light; American Classic wheels are beautiful; Paint is good; Welds are typical of most manufacturers of Aluminum frames; All screws had some grease on the threads; Fork looks beautiful, especially the dropouts; It was well packaged and box arrived undamaged. Some things are rather unimpressive: Handlebar tape is put on poorly and of poor quality; Cables are of poor quality; Too many stickers; Cable housing is a poor match for bicycle color (it's gray instead of black); Seatpost is too long for a 49cm frame (I can't get it to go down far enough as it hits the upper water bottle cage screw); All screws only had a little grease on them; Saddle is as bad and as cheap as everyone has said; Expected 165mm crank arms on this small a bike, but 170mm is ok; Bicycle had a little grime on it.

What I need to change/install: Cable housing is being changed to black; Handlebar tape changes to Cinelli red cork; Seatpost will have at least 2" cut from the bottom; Terry Butterfly Ti saddle installed; Sigma BC1200 installed; Daughter does not like the American Classic stickers on the wheels (I suggested she leave them on until she rides it a bit); Install Vittoria Rubino Pro 700cx23mm Red/Black tires; Install water bottle cages; Install Shimano SPD-SL540 black road pedals; Need to make her clean the bicycle; Weigh it!

*Feb 10th*
I am posting some pictures of the Motobecane almost completely assembled. My daughter has the pictures of the Motobecane in it's original setup, inside her digicam, which she takes to school with her, so I can't post those yet. I should have the Cinelli bar tape on Monday and the Tires whenever they get here from ProBikeKit. As it sits with bottle cages, pedals and bike computer it was 17.4 lbs. Wow a full two pounds lighter than my TST, I am jealous. Of course, my wife wasn't too happy, so sometime next week I need to put her Cannondale up on eBay, probably my Klein also.

As I mentioned earlier assembling the bicycle actually wasn't too bad. everything seemed to be there. There were no missing parts. There were stickers all over the bike, on the head tube was a "Made in Taiwan", the seat tube has a frame size sticker, the seatpost binder had a sticker on it, the brakes had the little piece of black tape on each one, the non drive-side crank arm had an inspection sticker on the inside. I removed all of those. The cables and housing were from Jagwire and the brake cable housings are actually in two pieces with a splice under the handlebar tape. That made it easier to replace the gray housing with black housing (actually a carbon color). Adjustments needed to be made to all mechanicals, especially since I had to shorten all the cable housings. Saddle was installed after trimming the bottom of the seatpost. It was just too long. My modified bottle cages were added. They started life looking like these from *Pricepoint* and after a little dremeling look like what was installed on the bicycle. Each picture is a link to another higher resolution image (800x600). I will post the _before _pictures after she gets home from school.

    

*Feb 16th*
Here is the first post ride report. I will let Bittersweet post her own ride report, when she get's around to it.

Two things I noticed post ride. The first was the front wheel was out of true. With these AC420's there is little to play with with regard to spoke tension. They were not all perfectly even, so I did what I could. It is now true again. The other thing I noticed about the wheels is that the nipples are either very soft, or some of them must have a threadlocker. Either way, these are not easy wheels for the home wrench to true, not impossible just not easy. It also could be the way they are set up for BikesDirect. The second thing I noticed was that the Cane Creek SR-5 brakeset suck. The arms are weak, the brake shoes do not set up easily and that stupid arrangement of the knurled knob and set screw to attach the outer brake arm is just a bad design. I will be swapping out these with some Ultegra brakes. Otherwise everything else was just fine. No problems shifting, even with the compact double crank, and very quiet on the road. She was definately climbing better than I was, but then again is is currently less than half my weight. 

The only other odd setup was the FSA compressor. It was two pieces. once I figured out how it worked, I actually really like the design and it seems easier than the way others do this.


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## WheresWaldo (Nov 29, 2005)

I know this was alot to read but I wanted to make sure everyone that sees these posts should understand what they are dealing with from an actual customers perspective about the two BD bikes I have purchased.

I hope this information is helpful.


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## midlife_xs's (Jun 18, 2004)

Hi, thanks for the objective review. 
After you changed the saddle and tires and added the bottle cage(s), computer and pedals the Motobecane SL weighed 17.4 lbs. Did you have a chance to weigh it stock as it came from DB? Just wondering if the 15.1 lbs weight is right on specially this is a size 49 frame. 
Am looking for a *technologically modern* i.e. brifters, 10 spd, and light road bike right now as my 2 road bikes are already Jurassic ('85-'88). 
Thanks and regards.


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## WheresWaldo (Nov 29, 2005)

midlife_xs's said:


> Hi, thanks for the objective review.
> After you changed the saddle and tires and added the bottle cage(s), computer and pedals the Motobecane SL weighed 17.4 lbs. Did you have a chance to weigh it stock as it came from DB? Just wondering if the 15.1 lbs weight is right on specially this is a size 49 frame.
> Am looking for a *technologically modern* i.e. brifters, 10 spd, and light road bike right now as my 2 road bikes are already Jurassic ('85-'88).
> Thanks and regards.


Unfortuneatly in my haste to finish the assembly I did not weigh it before any changes were made. Please note that most manufacturers/importers measure weight without pedals, cages, or any accessories. I would say that by my guess the Le Champion SL was just a tad bit heavier than the claimed weight, but nothing over 16 pounds, more like 15.5 - 15.75 pounds. Things like the tires were about 20g over Vittoria's specs. The stock saddle was about 300g. It's just hard to know exactly how it was speced at 15.1 pounds.


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## filtersweep (Feb 4, 2004)

Just curious, but how much did your bike cost AFTER swapping out all the parts,shipping, tax, etc... I'm not so sure that it wouldn't have been easier and cheaper building up a typical CF frameset. Just curious...


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## WheresWaldo (Nov 29, 2005)

filtersweep said:


> Just curious, but how much did your bike cost AFTER swapping out all the parts,shipping, tax, etc... I'm not so sure that it wouldn't have been easier and cheaper building up a typical CF frameset. Just curious...


filtersweep, I wish I had an good answer for you. But I used all those parts on another bike build. I purchased a Leader TT frame and all but the saddle that I removed from the IF were used in that bike build. The other thing that everyone has to consider also is that no matter where you buy your bike and no matter how much you pay for it, there will always be some things that you will want to change or exchange in order to benefit fully from your bicycle purchase. 

Consider the component selection. If you are going to order a full Ultegra group, you are looking to spend at least $650 - $800 depending on what part of the world you buy from and if you are willing to accept OEM parts without retail boxes. Then there are wheels, stem, saddle, tires, and other parts. The Ritchey Protocols go on eBay for about $400 - $500. The carbon saddle was $200, stem $100, seatpost another $80. Since I reused parts on another bike that was money I did not have to spend on it. So if you are looking at this from can I build the bike cheaper. You might be able to, but only if you are a very judicious shopper, and can get a carbon frame for much less than $1000 (see Pedalforce.com for an inexpensive quality monocoque carbon frame).

As an example I have a Cannondale Tandem, which costs a pretty penny. Even though it was more or less what I wanted, I still had to replace two saddles, the front handlebars for wider ones and I had to replace the rear suspension seatpost. By the time I was through, I had at least 500 dollars more into it than the purchase price. Did that mean I could have spent $500 more initially and gotten exactly what I wanted? Probably not.

It all about personalization, comfort and enjoyment. Those things are hard to put a price on.


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## filtersweep (Feb 4, 2004)

As long as you are using them, they served their pupose. (Even if not, it is your money anyway!  )I was approaching it from the other direction. I had a shop build up a frameset where I made no compromises on parts, and have been very satisfied the last four years. I paid more money up front than upgrading a built bike, but less than I would have if I would have picked a built bike. But I hear you about the trickle down effect to other bikes-- it is how I ended up with three other "beater" bikes.



WheresWaldo said:


> filtersweep, I wish I had an good answer for you. But I used all those parts on another bike build. I purchased a Leader TT frame and all but the saddle that I removed from the IF were used in that bike build. The other thing that everyone has to consider also is that no matter where you buy your bike and no matter how much you pay for it, there will always be some things that you will want to change or exchange in order to benefit fully from your bicycle purchase.
> 
> Consider the component selection. If you are going to order a full Ultegra group, you are looking to spend at least $650 - $800 depending on what part of the world you buy from and if you are willing to accept OEM parts without retail boxes. Then there are wheels, stem, saddle, tires, and other parts. The Ritchey Protocols go on eBay for about $400 - $500. The carbon saddle was $200, stem $100, seatpost another $80. Since I reused parts on another bike that was money I did not have to spend on it. So if you are looking at this from can I build the bike cheaper. You might be able to, but only if you are a very judicious shopper, and can get a carbon frame for much less than $1000 (see Pedalforce.com for an inexpensive quality monocoque carbon frame).
> 
> ...


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## WheresWaldo (Nov 29, 2005)

filtersweep said:


> As long as you are using them, they served their pupose. (Even if not, it is your money anyway!  )I was approaching it from the other direction. I had a shop build up a frameset where I made no compromises on parts, and have been very satisfied the last four years. I paid more money up front than upgrading a built bike, but less than I would have if I would have picked a built bike. But I hear you about the trickle down effect to other bikes-- it is how I ended up with three other "beater" bikes.


Now I understand your question. Looking back I do not think I spent more money than if I built one up myself. I have a TST Ti bike that is comparably equiped, except an Ultegra Triple instead of a double and it cost me about $2500 complete with custom wheels from Mike Garcia @ OddsandEndos. That bike was a complete build from the frame up, that I was able to do while recovering from surgery earlier this year. That was more than my total investment in the Motobecane and although the Ti is a great bike, it is not as comfortable or smooth as the Moto.

My next option is to buy something like a Moto Le Champion (not the SL) it is full Ultegra and Ritchey Protocols, then find a frameset to swap the parts to. I wouldn't even have to sell the Moto frame to come out ahead on a deal like that. It's also about how much or how little value you place on your time. Since I enjoy working on bikes, upgrading parts, and riding I place less value on my build time than someone who doesn't enjoy wrenching their own bikes. I know how to fit myself and what works for me and what doesn't. So in the long run it doesn't really pay for me to have someone else build a bike for me, it actually diminishes some of its value to me. As I mentioned in an earlier post it's not always about the money.

I am glad you found a "custom" build that works for you. I have a dream bike that I will build some day, but I am also sure that as soon as it has a season under my butt I will want to change this or that part.


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## MTBAlex (Jul 24, 2006)

Hi Waldo,

Thank you for that post. I also have a Motobecane Immortal force. I actually bought it after some research and when I read your posts on BikeForums. I have about 500-600 miles on the bike so far and I am very happy with it. 

Like you said, the Rithey protocal wheels are great. My bike came with a ritchey pro stem and handlebars and seatpost. The handlebars take a little bit to get use to, and the stem seem to need retightening every so often. Other than that. it is great. Please let me know how you like the FSA k-force bars. I am interested in puchasing these as well.


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## cpbrowne (Sep 3, 2006)

I too have an IF. Purchased on sales at BD for $1295 My experience has been similar to WW. One difference was that it seems that one of the spacers was missing - everything worked fine once I picked up a new one. 

Rides have been great, but I'm swapping out of the 11-23 cassette to a 12-27 for better climbing. Richey wheels are fine, but I also bought some ROL SL28s and have tossed some Michelin Pro Race 2's. Also tossed on a CatEye double wireless computer purchaed off eBay - works great. The bike climbs and descends well, and doesn't beat me up nearly as much as my old '89 Cannondale. Thus far, I'm very happy with the purchase. Will keep you all posted.


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## MTBAlex (Jul 24, 2006)

I swapped out the seat for the Specialized Toupe and dropped the generic pedals (nothing was wrong with them, I just wanted new pedals) and got teh Look Keo carbon. I also changed out my cassette to a 12-27. It makes a world of difference around here in the bay area. 

I also have a garmedge 305 on mine and it rocks. 

Do the kenda Kalinete suck that much?


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## cpbrowne (Sep 3, 2006)

The Kendas are serviceable - it's just that he MPR2s are great tires and in red they look great too. I've thought about a carbon seatpost, but will wait and see.

I'm also in the Bay Area (Marin) where climbing matters - can't wait for that new cassette.


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