# Kuota Kharma vs. Rocky Mountain Prestige 30 CR



## AndrewClarke (Jul 29, 2009)

Hi. I'm just getting back into cycling after a number of years of not doing much riding. It's time to upgrade my road bike. I think I've narrowed it down to the Kuota Kharma (C$2450) vs. the Rocky Mountain Prestige 30 CR (C$2000).

I'm about 6'4, with shorter legs and a longer torso for my height, and extraordinarily long arms. Therefore I need a bike with a longer top tube. I'm 36 and while I used to be fast and competitive, now I just ride for fun. I do want a bike that I can be comfortable on for 2+ hour rides, as well as maybe race for fun if I feel like it. I had two vertebrae in my neck fused together a few years ago so I don't want a punishingly stiff bike.

Kuota Kharma thoughts:
The bike shop has been very helpful. They are knowledgeable and do a good job of fitting a bike to the person. After measuring me up, this was his recommendation from what he sells. He spent probably an hour with me, no pressure. The shop also has weekly group rides, free tuning for the lifetime of the bike, etc. I hadn't even considered a Kuota before talking to hiim.

Rocky Mountain thoughts:
It's a Canadian Company and I like to support Canadian companies (I'm in Canada). However, I bought a Rocky Mountain Vertex back in '95 and had huge hassle getting warranty work done on a cracked frame. That was a long time ago though. The Rocky Mountain is $450 cheaper which is a significant chunk of change. The Rocky Mountain dealer is fine and I have bought from them before, but they're more of a "family" store and less of a "performance" store.

Unfortunately I can't ride either one as neither one is in stock and since I need the largest size isn't something bike stores usually have sitting around. I just have to buy a bike and hope for the best.

By far, the most important aspect for me is fit. More so than even price, although I am price conscious.

The Kuota has a 73 degree seat tube and is 590mm in top tube length. The RMB has a 72.5 degree seat tube angle and 600mm top tube, which is nice.

Anyway, if anyone has any thoughts for a tall cyclist, or experience with either bike, I'd appreciate. I've read the reviews, now it's time to plunk down the money.

Thanks,
- Andrew.


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## Le Wrench (May 12, 2009)

Just adding this photo and link for conversation sake.
https://www.bikes.com/main+en+01_102+PRESTIGE_30_CR.html?BIKE=596#2

One thing to keep in mind is that "Built in Canada" might not mean what it sounds like. Some companies have their carbon frames actually start in Taiwan or China, then finished in country X and can claim Made in country x. This is not a bad thing, as Taiwan is master of carbon bike manufactering after years of investment and experience. But just wanted to mention this since a Canadian made bike is something you're looking for. 

Reading through the Factory section of their website, it only takes about aluminum production if you notice.
https://www.bikes.com/main+en+07_300+Factory.html


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## AndrewClarke (Jul 29, 2009)

Thanks a lot. And here's a photo of the Kuota Kharma ( https://www.lifestyle-cycling.net/media_lib_files/105_kuota_kharma_2009.jpg ).

- Andrew.


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## holy cromoly (Nov 9, 2008)

I am big fan of tall headtubes.

The size 54 Rocky Mtn has a 195mm headtube, which is one of the tallest I've seen and to me that is a good thing. Typically a size 54 in other makes have a 135-145mm headtube. I like how Rocky Mtn has a race line and a more comfortable performance line with the 30CR.

I find the taller headtubes are ideal for daily fitness riding. The more comfortable you are on a bike, the more you will ride it!

The 30CR seems to be Rocky Mtn's version of a Specialized Roubaix, also a fast yet comfortable road bike.

Site unseen and strictly based on geometry, I'd go Rocky Mtn for long term comfort.


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## shorelocal (Jan 12, 2007)

As others have said, the Rockys are definitely NOT made in Canada. Maybe they're put together/assembled at the warehouse in BC before they're shipped to dealers, but not made (just a clarification).

I ride an older ('05) Rocky Solo AL road bike ... it has worked well for me so far, and this one was welded in Canada  Rocky definitely aren't known for their road bikes ... even though they're local to me in BC, there aren't many shops that carry the carbon road stuff and even fewer people I've seen out riding them (except for the factory team locally). Not that that means anything when you come to purchase, but it may speak for their knowledge of the road market. Just an observation/opinion.


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## holy cromoly (Nov 9, 2008)

On a side note, I just noticed the domain of those links to Rocky Mtn and they own bikes.com if you look at the URL.


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## kiwisimon (Oct 30, 2002)

holy cromoly said:


> Site unseen and strictly based on geometry, I'd go Rocky Mtn for long term comfort.


 +1. Longer top tube would seal the deal and you can save some dollars.


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## holy cromoly (Nov 9, 2008)

AndrewClarke said:


> I'm 36 and while I used to be fast and competitive, now I just ride for fun. I do want a bike that I can be comfortable on for 2+ hour rides, as well as maybe race for fun if I feel like it. I had two vertebrae in my neck fused together a few years ago so I don't want a punishingly stiff bike.


I think the above mentioned should be your criteria fo choosing the bike. Comfort...Comfort...Comfort.

The Rocky Mtn has alot going for it in terms of comfort:
Tall headtube
Fatter 25c tires
Longer top tube
I used to ride a version of the 2006 Kuota Kharma and the geometry was definitely more race than comfort. It used to be that all bikes could accommodate at least a 25c tire, but that is not the case anymore as frames have been become so task specific. My old Kharma could not fit a 25c tire surprisingly.

Running a fatter tire means you can reduce ride harshness by runnning it about 10-15psi less than a 23c tire. Makes all the difference.

Given your intention of riding for fitness (not racing) and your existing back/health requirements, I'd go for Rocky Mtn 30CR or take a look at the Specialized Roubaix.

I am 35 and ride for fitness, not racing. I like solo long 2-3 rides and enjoy my Kona Kapu's tall headtube and 25c tires. Regardless of which bike you buy, definitely look into a nice saddle for long ride comfort like the Specialized Avatar Gel. Anything you can do to take the edge off the road will be a big help to your back.


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## AndrewClarke (Jul 29, 2009)

Thank you everybody for your comments. Le Wrench, I saw the bike photo but missed your comments.

I am aware that the Rocky Mountain frame is not made in Canada. I just meant that Rocky Mountain is a Canadian company, and Kuota is an Italian company.

I do agree with the geometry and sizing on the RMB. Offsetting that though is the fact that the Kuota dealer will do a full fit for the price of the bike, selecting all the components that fit me right, vs. whatever comes with the Kuota. I suppose though that for the price I'm left with $500 to spend on the Rocky Mountain to switch out stem, bar, seat, cranks, etc., if necessary.

In a perfect world, I'd be able to test ride both and could buy either one from the Kuota dealer. I am happy with both shops and have bought a bike before from the Rocky Mountain dealer, but I feel that the Kuota guy will do what it takes to get the Kuota set up for me best, whereas the Rocky Mountain dealer will give me the bike and then it's up to me if I want to figure out and negotiate a crankset or stem swap or something.

Thanks again,
- Andrew.


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## holy cromoly (Nov 9, 2008)

AndrewClarke said:


> In a perfect world, I'd be able to test ride both and could buy either one from the Kuota dealer. I am happy with both shops and have bought a bike before from the Rocky Mountain dealer, but I feel that the Kuota guy will do what it takes to get the Kuota set up for me best, whereas the Rocky Mountain dealer will give me the bike and then it's up to me if I want to figure out and negotiate a crankset or stem swap or something.
> 
> Thanks again,
> - Andrew.


A good shop always is a valuble resource. 

This will be my last 2 cents...

But in this case, the two bikes are so different. One is racer. The other is comfort. From your desc, it sounds like the comfort bike is more ideal for you.

Say you're shopping for a car and you commute far and want comfort for your bad back so you really need a sedan like a Toyota Camry. But the Camry dealer is not good to you as the other dealer, where you saw a sports car like a Nissan 370Z. So instead you buy the 370Z because the dealer is nice. 

At the end of the day, you bought a sports car instead of the sedan. Sure the dealer gave you a comfy seat pad for free to help make the sports car more soft and did his best to make it work, but perhaps it's still not the ideal car you were looking for

Kuota is the sports car. Rocky Mtn is the sedan.


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## takmanjapan (Mar 24, 2004)

*Rocky knows road bikes... for a long time*

I have a handmade Derek Bailey Turbo from 1988 and there were lots of riders in the late 80's and early 90's in my BC club (Prince George) that had them. Comfy, well built, and good geometry.


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## AndrewClarke (Jul 29, 2009)

Thanks again to everybody. Based on some thinking about what's been written here, I think I've written off the Kuota and am considering the Specialized Roubaix Elite.

Specialized Roubaix Elite
Seat tube c-t 565
top tube 600
Seat tube angle 72.5
wheelbase: 1035
Standover height: 827

Rocky Mountain Prestige
Seat tube c-t 600
top tube 600
Seat tube angle 72.5
wheelbase: 1010
Standover height: 842

The main differences here are that the Roubaix has a longer wheelbase and I guess because of the frame design of the Specialized it looks like I might have more seat tube sticking out. I'm not sure how much of a real-world difference that will make either way.

I'm not sure how good the Roubaix is in real-world capability at the "Elite" level where I'm looking to buy in, vs. the Rocky Mountain.

If I decide on the Rocky Mountain, I can upgrade from the 30 to the 50 for an extra C$500. The 50 is mostly Ultegra and the 30 is mostly 105. Here are the specs for each:

30: http://www.bikes.com/main+en+01_102+PRESTIGE_30_CR.html?BIKE=596#2
50: http://www.bikes.com/main+en+01_102+PRESTIGE_50_CR.html?BIKE=597#2

For what I'm doing, do people think that I'd get $500 of extra value out of the 50? It seems like I'd be happy with 105-level components on the 30. The 30 is nice at $2000 and the 50 is within my budget at $2500 and I'd have to feel like the difference was easily justified. For comparison, that Specialized is about $2500 so the Rocky at the same price would likely have nicer components (or worse components for $500 less).

Thanks again. I really appreciate your time.
- Andrew.


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## holy cromoly (Nov 9, 2008)

105 level parts are good. I have ridden 105, Ultegra and Dura Ace and in the end for fitness riding, 105 is plenty good in my personal experience. The key thing with any drivetrain, is proper setup and tuning.

You save $500 if you get the 30CR, money could be put towards shoes, bibs, jerseys, gloves, high powered LED headlight, etc... 

You can't really go wrong with either the Rocky Mtn or the Roubaix, both bikes are long distance endurance road bikes, much better for your needs than an racing bike.

The longer wheelbase of the Roubaix technically makes it more stable and comfy, on paper at least.

One other factor is resale value if you care about such, the Specialized will fetch more should you decide to sell it in the future. And it will sell more easily given the that the Roubaix is sought after ride and Specialized's brand recognition over Rocky Mountain for road bikes.


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## abracadabra (Aug 17, 2008)

Not to confuse you more, but did you test ride the Kuota? I don't own one but last year I tested 6 bikes that were in the $1800-$2500US range and the Kharma was by far the best feeling bike to me. I thought it was both fast and extremely comfortable. I didn't ride the Rocky Mtn, but I did ride the Roubaix Elite. Though it's a nice bike, I felt like the Kharma was a much nicer ride. I'm only 6'1" so you are a bit taller then me but I definitely think you should test ride one at your lbs. From your description of the shop, it sounds like they would be happy to set you up. And with new models coming in, maybe they would be willing to do a slight discount...
Good luck!


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## Kuma601 (Jan 22, 2004)

Take the Kharma out just for the experience. Short test rides are tough to tell when the bike isn't dialed in for you. Which is perhaps why the Look 555 didn't motivate me and it was at a very nice price point then. The initial ride of the '08 Kharma suited me and after 10 minutes it was sufficient for me to turn back and say "yes" to. The Kuota of the time also had the more complete Ultegra gruppo where the Look had FSA cranks installed.

I've got about 1,200 miles on mine now. The first couple hundred the little adjustments made it feel better. YMMV so why not give it a ride and see how it does with the Rocky Mountain or other prospective bikes.


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## AndrewClarke (Jul 29, 2009)

Thanks again for the input. The reason I can't take any of these bikes out for a test ride is that none of the retailers have any in stock. They also won't bring the bike in stock unless I order it, so none of them is available to test ride. I don't live in the land of mega stores with everything in stock, and even if they did stock the bike it would be unlikely to be in my unusual size.

The Rocky Mountain shop did have one of Rocky Mountain's aluminium "Oxygen" bikes in XL, but the geometry is fairly different between the Oxygen and Prestige, and the material is different, so while I sat on it on a trainer, I didn't take it for a test ride as it wouldn't have told me anything anyway.

I'll probably stick with 105 or better components, but not go up from there at this point, as you suggested, Holy Chromoly.

Just to confuse matters further, I've decided to contact a local frame builder ( www.truenorthcycles.com ) and consider that as an option too. That would be a chromoly bike with carbon stays as an option, or Ti if I wanted to spend $2500+ on the frame alone, which I don't. I'll probably end up spending more this way, but I'm unlikely to care too much about the extra 500g or so of frame weight, and I won't get a better fitting bike than a custom one. I'll post here what decision I end up making, in case anyone cares 

Thanks again,
- Andrew.


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## abracadabra (Aug 17, 2008)

There is a 2008 Kharma at a great price here: http://www.rscycle.com/2008-Kuota-Kharma-Road-Bike-Professional-Race
It's similar to the 2009 except it's Ultegra/105 mix instead of just 105.
They have free US shipping right now so I am sure they have discounted Canada shipping. Worth a look...


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## AndrewClarke (Jul 29, 2009)

abracadabra said:


> There is a 2008 Kharma at a great price here: http://www.rscycle.com/2008-Kuota-Kharma-Road-Bike-Professional-Race
> It's similar to the 2009 except it's Ultegra/105 mix instead of just 105.
> They have free US shipping right now so I am sure they have discounted Canada shipping. Worth a look...


That is a good discount off. Just so you know, the 2009 Kharma frame has been completely redesigned over 2008. The most striking difference is that 2009 has an aero seat tube and post.

I spent a couple hours yesterday over at True North Cycles (www.truenorthcycles.com) and I think I'm going to order a custom frame from him. He actually really liked my current Ciocc chromoly frame when he saw it and pretty much asked why I was even looking for a new frame. I've been thinking of just hanging new components on my existing frame until I have a better idea of what I want, but last night tallied up what that would cost me. I can get a full custom frame with full Ultegra SL (slightly used), carbon fork, not sure what wheels yet for < $3000 taxes in from True North. An Ultegra SL gruppo, some wheels, etc., will cost me probably $2200, plus then I have to spend money getting it fit properly, built, etc., so I'm sure I'm up around $2500 when all is said and done just to upgrade my current frame. Plus 14% taxes.

I figure > $2500 to upgrade my existing frame to the same level of components that I can get on a < $3000 custom frame makes it an easy choice to go custom. Sure it will take a couple months but I think I'll put a new stem and shifter on my existing bike to take the edge off the wait.

OTOH I could buy that '08 Kharma, move the parts to my existing frame if the '08 doesn't fit me well, and still be way ahead of the game ... hmm ...

- Andrew.


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## ronale (Jul 7, 2009)

Hey Andrew. I just recently purchased a 08 Kuota Kharma from Randall Scott for the $1499 price( plus 59.00 for the pro-build) and I must say I'm extremely impressed. I'm 6'1" and went with the 58cm in nude carbon and I must echo all the positive things I read about the bike before I purchased it. Its a bike that truly delivers superb performance and great comfort at the same time.......I'm 37 by the way. Bicycle magazine wrote a glowing review of the Kharma last year and you can find it on their website.......quite accurate. Good luck with your search!


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## AndrewClarke (Jul 29, 2009)

ronale said:


> Hey Andrew. I just recently purchased a 08 Kuota Kharma from Randall Scott for the $1499 price( plus 59.00 for the pro-build) and I must say I'm extremely impressed. I'm 6'1" and went with the 58cm in nude carbon and I must echo all the positive things I read about the bike before I purchased it. Its a bike that truly delivers superb performance and great comfort at the same time.......I'm 37 by the way. Bicycle magazine wrote a glowing review of the Kharma last year and you can find it on their website.......quite accurate. Good luck with your search!


Did they do any custom fitting for you? For instance, did they switch out the stem or anything? If not, did you find it was a perfect fit for you out of the box or have you made some changes afterwards?

Thanks,
- Andrew.


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## ronale (Jul 7, 2009)

Not sure if they offer custom fitting. Fortunately the bike's fit was dead on for me( only thing I did was turn the existing stem over for a more aggressive profile). The 58cm fit me great, mind you I am 6'1"+ and more torso than legs..... about 32 inseam.


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## AndrewClarke (Jul 29, 2009)

ronale said:


> Not sure if they offer custom fitting. Fortunately the bike's fit was dead on for me( only thing I did was turn the existing stem over for a more aggressive profile). The 58cm fit me great, mind you I am 6'1"+ and more torso than legs..... about 32 inseam.


Oh, OK I missed the fact that you bought the 58. It sounds like we have a similar build, just in a slightly different scale  I'm a couple inches taller, with a 34" inseam.

I emailed them this morning and they will switch out a stem, but they don't do the custom build programme for bikes they send to Canada. The bike is too big to fit in the international box. Shipping is $150.

- Andrew.


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## windpigg (Aug 16, 2009)

do yourself a favor and ride one first. not just around the block if you are spending $2k invest an hour. if your time is worth more than the $2k/hr you should buy both.


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## AndrewClarke (Jul 29, 2009)

windpigg said:


> do yourself a favor and ride one first. not just around the block if you are spending $2k invest an hour. if your time is worth more than the $2k/hr you should buy both.


Again, I appreciate the sentiment but nobody stocks these bikes, especially not in my size. I suppose I could call every dealer in the province and maybe find one in stock, and drive 3 hours each way there and back. If I do that for 2 bikes that's potentially 12 hours in the car. Not feasible. And then what? Do I buy the bike from someone potentially hours and hours away, or from my local dealer?

As it turns out I have some reason to wait a bit to see if something else pans out before buying a bike. Once that's sorted out, if I buy one I think right now I'll likely get a cyclocross/commuter/road frame built for me as that will be a very flexible bike without giving up much in the road department. Possibly instead I'll get a Cannondale Synapse Carbon 5 if I decide to go the fancy carbon route.

Thanks,
- Andrew.


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## jhbeeton (Dec 8, 2004)

*suggestion - focus on the goal*

I thought I might just pitch something out to you...

You aren't a senior citizen yet and it hasn't been so long since your "fast riding days".

My old Miele Uno Columbus SLX frame was my first real road bike... was a dream ride ( likely circa your old ride). and now is a fun riding single speed commuter ... that's what is should be.

You have an option to ride a top level frame in the Kuota and work with a local bike shop to get you the fit and function that you are looking for. If you're in the tri-city (given that you have dropped into see True north) than I think you're in good hands with Winston over in Cambridge. 

He worked with me to get my wife perfectly set up on an Orbea Onix 3 yrs ago and we've likely had dozens of friends make the trip out to get the "custom" touch.

Good luck


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## AndrewClarke (Jul 29, 2009)

jhbeeton said:


> You have an option to ride a top level frame in the Kuota and work with a local bike shop to get you the fit and function that you are looking for. If you're in the tri-city (given that you have dropped into see True north) than I think you're in good hands with Winston over in Cambridge.
> 
> He worked with me to get my wife perfectly set up on an Orbea Onix 3 yrs ago and we've likely had dozens of friends make the trip out to get the "custom" touch.


Yep, you've "outed" the Kuota dealer  I'm in New Hamburg so Cambridge is on the "wrong" side of town but it's not the end of the world.

As I mentioned in a previous post, I'm waiting a bit on the bike purchase as I have another "iron in the fire", so to speak. By that time it will probably be September, so I'll see at that point how I feel about buying a new bike, and what idea sits best with me.

Thanks again,
- Andrew.


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## AndrewClarke (Jul 29, 2009)

For anyone interested, I placed an order today for a 2010 Cannondale Synapse Carbon 4. I got a shockingly good deal, and the only downside is that I have to wait until mid-October to get it.

Thanks to everybody for your input. I really appreciate it.

- Andrew.


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## 843zack (Nov 24, 2009)

*Prestige 30 (on sale) vs. Specialized Secteur Sport*

I noticed this thread because I find myself in a somewhat similar situation as Andrew. I'm looking to purchase my first road bike...I already have a 98 Cannondale T1000 touring bike but am looking to get onto a more road-only oriented bike. However, racing isn't on the near horizon, I mostly want to work out with the local club and take it on daylong rides and weekend trips. I'm just out of college and 6', but I've had some back issues so comfort is a factor. My bike shop recommended the Specialized Secteur Sport, it seemed like a great ride in my price range ($910). But they have that 2009 Rocky Mountain Prestige 30 on sale for $1400. From the thread, it seems like this prestige is comfort-oriented too, but has the 105 components so it would be more race-ready than the Secteur, which is sora and tiagra. And the all carbon probably means more comfort? I'm wondering, is the Prestige at $1400 too good a deal to pass up?


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## Srexy (Oct 25, 2005)

AndrewClarke said:


> For anyone interested, I placed an order today for a 2010 Cannondale Synapse Carbon 4. I got a shockingly good deal, and the only downside is that I have to wait until mid-October to get it.
> 
> Thanks to everybody for your input. I really appreciate it.
> 
> - Andrew.


So where are the pix? How's the ride? Is it what you wanted?


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