# Looking at '14 Allez E5 OSBB frameset



## tranzformer (Dec 27, 2007)

Looking at the Allez E5 frameset. Anyone know if there are any changes to the '14 vs the '13. Hopefully they will still sell the blac version. Wish they would make it compatible with electric group sets (or a Di2 version frameset), but a guy can't have everything right?

Also, is the only difference with the S-Works version being the limited edition + different paint scheme?


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## wrz0170 (Sep 4, 2013)

tranzformer said:


> Looking at the Allez E5 frameset. Anyone know if there are any changes to the '14 vs the '13. Hopefully they will still sell the blac version. Wish they would make it compatible with electric group sets (or a Di2 version frameset), but a guy can't have everything right?
> 
> Also, is the only difference with the S-Works version being the limited edition + different paint scheme?


I ordered this very frame set in "Murder Black". Wasn't too crazy about the other color scheme. Waiting for it to come in. Allegedly, it could even be this week. But since I want it now, it will now be 2 more weeks 

The guy at my LBS has a '13 Allez Race, black and red color scheme. Very sharp. He thinks it will be pretty much identical. He is looking forward to the frame coming in as much as I am. 

When end I get it in, I will let you know!


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## tranzformer (Dec 27, 2007)

Was the pricing still $880 for the '14? Also, does it still come with seatpost and seatpost binder? Wish there was some more info available on the '14s somewhere. Murder black sure looks nice imo.


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## tranzformer (Dec 27, 2007)

Just to confirm, only difference between S-Works and murder black version is paint scheme and one being limited edition while other is not?


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## wrz0170 (Sep 4, 2013)

tranzformer said:


> Was the pricing still $880 for the '14? Also, does it still come with seatpost and seatpost binder? Wish there was some more info available on the '14s somewhere. Murder black sure looks nice imo.


Yep. $880+Gov't misspent money. I did put 20% just to ensure I got dibs on a frame. Seems frames sell out quickly. I am pretty sure it does come with seat post/binder. Specialized was also a wee bit lacking as far as weight. 

I dont know on your second question. Outside guess is the one is a limited edition and just a paint scheme. However, for me not worth an additional $1200 more! I like the Murder Black!


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## tranzformer (Dec 27, 2007)

Has to be a Specialized dealer or shop worker that can confirm the S-Works and Murder Black are the same frame under the paint differences?


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## wrz0170 (Sep 4, 2013)

tranzformer said:


> Has to be a Specialized dealer or shop worker that can confirm the S-Works and Murder Black are the same frame under the paint differences?


if it's the same frame, that's expensive paint!


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## nis240sxt (Oct 6, 2004)

tranzformer said:


> Just to confirm, only difference between S-Works and murder black version is paint scheme and one being limited edition while other is not?


No, they are different framesets. The S-works gets more butting of the tubes and anodizing dropping the weight of a 54cm to ~1050grms, while the E5 frame which is same as last year's race frameset should be ~1200grms. They call it SL hydroforming and is also on the Allez Expert. I've placed my order for an Expert because of this because it seems like the S-works and Expert model is the same frame except for the S-Works being anodized and expert being painted. Also, the S-works will receive a tarmac sworks fork, while the other smartweld models will receive the tarmac comp fork. I will Di2 mine and have a build up as soon as it arrives. I ordered it late August and now they are telling me November/December delivery.


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## tranzformer (Dec 27, 2007)

nis240sxt said:


> No, they are different framesets. The S-works gets more butting of the tubes and anodizing dropping the weight of a 54cm to ~1050grms, while the E5 frame which is same as last year's race frameset should be ~1200grms. They call it SL hydroforming and is also on the Allez Expert. I've placed my order for an Expert because of this because it seems like the S-works and Expert model is the same frame except for the S-Works being anodized and expert being painted. Also, the S-works will receive a tarmac sworks fork, while the other smartweld models will receive the tarmac comp fork. I will Di2 mine and have a build up as soon as it arrives. I ordered it late August and now they are telling me November/December delivery.


Thank you for the clarification. 



wrz0170 said:


> if it's the same frame, that's expensive paint!


Well if anyone did a limited edition frame for $$$$, Specialized would be the one to do it.


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## tranzformer (Dec 27, 2007)

Got an update:

So I called Specialized (408-779-6229) and spoke to a customer service rep. Asked if there was a difference in construction and/or material between a S-Works Allez vs the E5 OBSS frameset. He said none. They are the same frame just with a different paint scheme. Hope that helps people with a similar question.


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## wrz0170 (Sep 4, 2013)

tranzformer said:


> Got an update:
> 
> So I called Specialized (408-779-6229) and spoke to a customer service rep. Asked if there was a difference in construction and/or material between a S-Works Allez vs the E5 OBSS frameset. He said none. They are the same frame just with a different paint scheme. Hope that helps people with a similar question.


Good stuff. Thanks to the nis240xst's post, I finally know the frame weight. 1200grams


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## rcb78 (Jun 15, 2008)

I've been told by a couple of different sources that the 'frame' is the same, but the difference in forks mentioned above is legit. The S-Works Allez gets the S-Works Tarmac fork.
That said, I've got the 2013 E5 frameset built up with DA9000 and it's insanely fun. You'll like yours. My 56cm (frame only) weight 1230gr. Built up and ready to roll, pedals, bottle cages, etc, it's 15.97 lbs. Stripped for an apples/apples comparison and it's 15.4lbs.
A Red group set would have knocked some good weight off, but after playing with Red22 demo at Sea Otter last year and riding a friends Super Record bike, I was dead set on DA9000. Recently put 6800 on my 'beater' CX bike and weight aside, I still like it better than the other two choices.


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## tranzformer (Dec 27, 2007)

rcb78 said:


> I've been told by a couple of different sources that the 'frame' is the same, but the difference in forks mentioned above is legit. The S-Works Allez gets the S-Works Tarmac fork.


Yeah the S-Works gets the S-Works fork vs the E5 getting the regular Tarmac fork. Their website states that clearly enough. Just happy to hear the frames are the same as the E5 looks nicer to me. Could always upgrade to a S-Works fork off eBay if that was ever wanted and just get it painted black to match the frame.


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## tranzformer (Dec 27, 2007)

wrz0170 said:


> Good stuff. Thanks to the nis240xst's post, I finally know the frame weight. 1200grams


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## tranzformer (Dec 27, 2007)

tranzformer said:


> Got an update:
> 
> So I called Specialized (408-779-6229) and spoke to a customer service rep. Asked if there was a difference in construction and/or material between a S-Works Allez vs the E5 OBSS frameset. He said none. They are the same frame just with a different paint scheme. Hope that helps people with a similar question.


Just incase people want another source that S-Works and the murder black frames are the same except for paint. 



> It was such a big deal that the 2013 S-Works Allez only had a limited run of 50 bikes. Hit the link to last year’s coverage for tech details and close ups. *There was also a blacked out Allez Race that shared the frame and was almost equally hard to get*


2014 Specialized Road & Triathlon Bikes ? More Disc Brakes & Trickle Down Tech!


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## nis240sxt (Oct 6, 2004)

tranzformer said:


> Got an update:
> 
> So I called Specialized (408-779-6229) and spoke to a customer service rep. Asked if there was a difference in construction and/or material between a S-Works Allez vs the E5 OBSS frameset. He said none. They are the same frame just with a different paint scheme. Hope that helps people with a similar question.


Not sure who to believe and I've gotten incorrect info from spesh reps before. This is from bikeradar "the rarefied S-Works version of the Allez weighs in at just 1,050g for a 56cm frame - impressive stuff. This Race model isn’t as extremely butted, and it's painted rather than anodised, so its chassis weighs in at 1,250g". Does paint really weigh close to 200 grams? Regardless, you'll be getting a sweet frame set no matter which smartweld frame you get. Keep us posted :thumbsup:


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## Katy Trail B (Jun 12, 2011)

Also with the S-Works Frame, they smooth the welds down. I got a great look at it this year at Interbike. Trust me unless you have cash just to blow or room on your Credit card, You will be pleased with the standard E5 Smart Weld frame. I have mine built with Sram Force and love it!!


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## tranzformer (Dec 27, 2007)

Katy Trail B said:


> Also with the S-Works Frame, they smooth the welds down. I got a great look at it this year at Interbike. Trust me unless you have cash just to blow or room on your Credit card, You will be pleased with the standard E5 Smart Weld frame. I have mine built with Sram Force and love it!!



The regular frameset has fairly smooth looking welds too.


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## rcb78 (Jun 15, 2008)

The race model is not painted, it is anodized, completely too. The black ano is 100% coverage, inside and out. I own the 2013 OSBB Frameset and I've seen the actual race build on the sales floor direct from the factory. Don't know about that weld comment either, these welds look good. I wouldn't trust that source based simply on the paint comment.



nis240sxt said:


> Not sure who to believe and I've gotten incorrect info from spesh reps before. This is from bikeradar "the rarefied S-Works version of the Allez weighs in at just 1,050g for a 56cm frame - impressive stuff. This Race model isn’t as extremely butted, and it's painted rather than anodised, so its chassis weighs in at 1,250g". Does paint really weigh close to 200 grams? Regardless, you'll be getting a sweet frame set no matter which smartweld frame you get. Keep us posted :thumbsup:


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## Tupelo (Apr 29, 2012)

The expert also gets a carbon seat post as does the S-works full bike and frame only. All other models and framesets get the alloy seat post.


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## b_new_b (Aug 26, 2010)

Love mine!
Size 52 Frame is 1180 grams.


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## nis240sxt (Oct 6, 2004)

Sweet ride! i weighed this year's murder frame 52cm that just came in to the bike shop and it was 1220 grams but it sure does look nice with a touch of red accents. I'll find out later once i receive my expert model to see if there really is a difference between frames besides paint.


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## wrz0170 (Sep 4, 2013)

nis240sxt said:


> Sweet ride! i weighed this year's murder frame 52cm that just came in to the bike shop and it was 1220 grams but it sure does look nice with a touch of red accents. I'll find out later once i receive my expert model to see if there really is a difference between frames besides paint.


Nice! Gives me hope that the frames are starting to ship. Maybe my LBS will call soon. I just ordered a complete Shimano Ultegra 6800 groupset from Ribble. Hopefully it will be a good match with the dark ice gray and the murder black.


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## nis240sxt (Oct 6, 2004)

It definitely will look great with the murder black. Had this frame in my hands and must say it is very impressive. Can't wait for mine, good luck on yours and keep us posted!


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## wrz0170 (Sep 4, 2013)

nis240sxt said:


> It definitely will look great with the murder black. Had this frame in my hands and must say it is very impressive. Can't wait for mine, good luck on yours and keep us posted!


Definitely! Now that a frame came in, are they still saying Nov/Dec? What are you looking to do with your build?


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## nis240sxt (Oct 6, 2004)

Yes, they are still saying Nov/Dec for my 52cm Allez Expert. I currently have an S-Works Venge and will move my Ultegra Di2 over to it. I have to drill into the frame, wish me luck.


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## tranzformer (Dec 27, 2007)

b_new_b said:


> Size 52 Frame is 1150 grams.





nis240sxt said:


> Sweet ride! i weighed this year's murder frame 52cm that just came in to the bike shop and it was 1220 grams



I assume the 70g difference for the same 52cm size is that you guys didn't weigh the exact same thing? Seat post clamp? RD hanger? Water bottle bolts? Headset?


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## tranzformer (Dec 27, 2007)

Just in case some haven't seen this cool clip about the Smartweld technology and how it came about.


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## nis240sxt (Oct 6, 2004)

Mine was weighed with clamp, rd hanger and water bottle bolts, no headset.


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## b_new_b (Aug 26, 2010)

No clamp, No headset. Looking back at an original post I weighed mine at 1180 grams. Sorry.
http://forums.roadbikereview.com/specialized/2013-specialized-allez-race-e5-ossb-300224-2.html


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## nis240sxt (Oct 6, 2004)

b_new_b, looks like we have similar bikes in past. I also had Tarmac SL4 Pro and currently ride an S-works Venge. Do you think the Allez is just as good performance wise? Looks like we are on similar tracks. If the Allez is that good, i could be saving alot of money along with everybody else.


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## Dunbar (Aug 8, 2010)

nis240sxt said:


> If the Allez is that good, i could be saving alot of money along with everybody else.


If you already own an S-Works Venge isn't it a little late to be thinking about saving a little/lot of money  You'd take a pretty big hit on the value if you sell it.


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## nis240sxt (Oct 6, 2004)

Dunbar said:


> If you already own an S-Works Venge isn't it a little late to be thinking about saving a little/lot of money  You'd take a pretty big hit on the value if you sell it.


Not really because I got the frameset for a smoking deal and will at least break even if I sell it.


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## tranzformer (Dec 27, 2007)

So I think I got the final word on the difference between the Allez S-Works and the Allez E5 Smartweld. They are slightly different besides the paint and limited edition. 

-The top & down tubes are a little thinner on the S-Works.
- The head tube welds are blended into the top & down tube.
- Some extra machining is done to the drop out and cable stops for added weight reduction.

Found this video on Youtube. S-Works frame is at 1070g and that is with a seatpost clamp. So take 15g off that and you are looking at close to 1055g for the frame.
















So it looks like ~150g between the S-Works version and the regular E5 Smartweld frame. Hope that solves it for anyone else wondering.


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## tranzformer (Dec 27, 2007)

Also, I noticed the S-Works version isn't listed on specialized.com '14 lineup. Does that mean it was really just a limited edition for a one year run (2013)? Surprised they didn't continue it with the '14 model year and just change the color and keep it a limited edition again.


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## nis240sxt (Oct 6, 2004)

Yes, figured so. Now the real question is how much will the Expert frame weigh? If it's similar to the sworks weight then the expert seems to be the value model to get. According to bikeradar at the 2014 spesh road launch, the expert seems to be... we'll see once i receive mine.

"The Allez Expert features Smartweld technology, which puts the down and top tube welds a few centimeters back from the head tube. A frame weighs a claimed 1,060g"


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## nis240sxt (Oct 6, 2004)

tranzformer said:


> Also, I noticed the S-Works version isn't listed on specialized.com '14 lineup. Does that mean it was really just a limited edition for a one year run (2013)? Surprised they didn't continue it with the '14 model year and just change the color and keep it a limited edition again.


They still make a 2014 model, surprisingly they took it off the USA website recently since i did see it couple weeks ago. Maybe the didn't think there was a market for it in the US but if you check UK's site, they are available. UK on the hand, cannot get the E5 frameset, go figure.


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## tranzformer (Dec 27, 2007)

Does the Allez have any issues with wide rims like the Tarmac and Venge deal with?

Hopefully Specialized decides to do a Di2 version of the frame soon. Probably will for 2015 model?


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## rcb78 (Jun 15, 2008)

They pulled the S-Works bike and frameset off their web site recently, but for the short time it was up it looks like they are distinguishing between the S-Works and Race frames as Smartweld SL (S-Works) and Smartweld (Race). If that's the case, then the Allez Expert is listed as having the SL version of the frame, but still the basic, heavier Tarmac fork. The S-Works frameset was also listed more as a frame module kit including the S-Works crankset. It wasn't in the picture, but it was in the description. If it really does come with that crank, then the 2k price for the frameset is not really that bad.
I guess time will tell if they decide to relist it.


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## CoTreeHugger (Jun 9, 2012)

Received my Smartweld in 58cm about three weeks ago - same day my S-Works Venge frame arrived!!! It's pretty cool!!! Building with new Ultegra!! Smartweld is completely different from the previous iteration!!! The 52 cm is on backorder only on the colored version - murdered is avail!!


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## wrz0170 (Sep 4, 2013)

Got good news today. My 52cm came into stock and shipping tomorrow or Monday from West coast. Should have it by the end of next week. Also waiting for my Ultegra 6800 gruppo to come in from Ribble. Fun begins!


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## trekroadie1.5 (Oct 20, 2010)

I found a used Allez Race frame Ebay and bought it, but haven't received it yet. I'm going to be switching my Sram Red Black over to it from my 08 Madone 4.5. I was just wondering what direction you guys would recommend for the crankset. The Madone has a GXP style crank. I know I could use it with Wheels Manufacturing adaptors or the Sram BB30 to BSA sleeve and still use the outboard bearings.

But I'm the type of person that if it was designed for a BB30 crank, I would like to use it. But then I read about issues with the OSBB creaking with the BB30 bearings. Has anyone with a newer Allez had any BB issues using the BB30 setup or is it more of a carbon frame issue?


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## wrz0170 (Sep 4, 2013)

To sort of piggy back what trekroadie1 mentioned about the bottom bracket. Allez E5, I was thinking of going this route at Praxis in regards to the BB, at least I think this is the one to get:
BB30 Conversion Kit BB - 73mm 

Seems like a solid product. Thoughts from anyone else going Allez E5 and Shimano/Hollowtech ?


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## rcb78 (Jun 15, 2008)

I currently have a 2013 Allez Race frame built up with a Rotor 3d+ crank sitting in BB30 bearings. Install them correctly and they will be silent for as long as the bearings last, no constant greasing or any of that crap. Correctly is: first degreasing the frame BB bore and OD of the bearings. Next apply Loctite primer to the BB bore, I prefer the aerosol version. Then lightly smear some Loctite 609 to the bore and install the bearings quickly. The primer really sets this stuff off quickly, but since you're bonding to Al, it is highly recommended. Install the crank so the spindle will engage the bearings and insure they are in the same plane. Let it sit overnight for the Loctite to cure.
I've got another Allez OSBB (BB30) frameset from 2012 that's about to move out on Ebay that also never once had a creak. That frame started with an Ultegra crank, in Wheels Mfg adapters, then to the Rotor 3d+ installed directly, both were silent. I've also installed plenty of pressfit bearings in to carbon, Ti, whatever frames, and they don't creak.
BB30 was Cannondale's brainchild and their service bulletin a few years back is where this info comes from. Do it exactly like they said, and it will be problem free. FWIW, Loctite does not mean 'threadlocker', Loctite is a company name, not a product description. 609 is designed to hold bearings captive in bores that may not be perfectly formed. When it comes time to remove the bearings, they come out like normal, no heat or extra pounding. 609 does not have strength in shear, only compression. That's why it works so well for cylindrical assemblies.


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## roadworthy (Nov 11, 2011)

rcb78 said:


> I currently have a 2013 Allez Race frame built up with a Rotor 3d+ crank sitting in BB30 bearings. Install them correctly and they will be silent for as long as the bearings last, no constant greasing or any of that crap. Correctly is: first degreasing the frame BB bore and OD of the bearings. Next apply Loctite primer to the BB bore, I prefer the aerosol version. Then lightly smear some Loctite 609 to the bore and install the bearings quickly. The primer really sets this stuff off quickly, but since you're bonding to Al, it is highly recommended. Install the crank so the spindle will engage the bearings and insure they are in the same plane. Let it sit overnight for the Loctite to cure.
> I've got another Allez OSBB (BB30) frameset from 2012 that's about to move out on Ebay that also never once had a creak. That frame started with an Ultegra crank, in Wheels Mfg adapters, then to the Rotor 3d+ installed directly, both were silent. I've also installed plenty of pressfit bearings in to carbon, Ti, whatever frames, and they don't creak.
> BB30 was Cannondale's brainchild and their service bulletin a few years back is where this info comes from. Do it exactly like they said, and it will be problem free. FWIW, Loctite does not mean 'threadlocker', Loctite is a company name, not a product description. 609 is designed to hold bearings captive in bores that may not be perfectly formed. When it comes time to remove the bearings, they come out like normal, no heat or extra pounding. 609 does not have strength in shear, only compression. That's why it works so well for cylindrical assemblies.


Great post. Just want to say you are one of the few men on the web that really understands how to install BB30. If others follow your example, they too will have trouble free BB30's. The vast majority that have creaks either don't know what they are doing or are relying on bike shops that don't. More don't than do.
Best Regards.


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## rcb78 (Jun 15, 2008)

I'm just amazed at how many guys still say they pull their bearings and grease them to 'fix' the creak,,, every couple of months.
I'm the service lead/mgr at one of the 'big chains' so I'm pretty big on the concept of fix it once and fix it right. Makes my life much easier when people don't come back in a month complaining about a problem that never goes away. In my opinion, there is NOTHING as nice as riding a silent bike. Not too bad for business either...


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## roadworthy (Nov 11, 2011)

rcb78 said:


> I'm just amazed at how many guys still say they pull their bearings and grease them to 'fix' the creak,,, every couple of months.
> I'm the service lead/mgr at one of the 'big chains' so I'm pretty big on the concept of fix it once and fix it right. Makes my life much easier when people don't come back in a month complaining about a problem that never goes away. In my opinion, there is NOTHING as nice as riding a silent bike. Not too bad for business either...


BB30 and derivatives...Specialized now spec's epoxy for their narrow version of PF30 delrin bushings to carbon shell...has created quite a firestorm for the simple reason that the average guy who works on a bike can't fathom using an adhesive to quiet bearings. Plus they don't know axial crank preload to quiet balls from the man on the moon.
BB30 is excellent when set up properly and moreover it is very inexpensive. ABEC-5 BB30 bearings are less than $10 ea. Other part of the problem is the cheap ABEC-1 BB30 bearings out there. Crank preload too tight...no service and riding in the rain. But as you say, favorite has to be....if bearings creak...grease them. We both know how well that works.


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## trekroadie1.5 (Oct 20, 2010)

I really appreciate the advice. One question though. You say Loctite 609 and I've read others using it as well. On Specializeds webpage, they recommend using 640 which is also a green press-fit bearing application with low shear strength. It's harder to find than 609 I believe, so is that why it's used more commonly?

I found the 640 at Fastenal and was going to get it just because it's recommended by Specialized.

I agree with the fix it right attitude. I work in the auto industry and believe whole-heartedly in that concept. I also believe in doing things by the book and believing the engineers that designed the product probably know a little bit more than me just using it.


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## rcb78 (Jun 15, 2008)

Well, I'm trying out set of Phil Wood 6806's with their marine quality seals right now, we'll see how they handle a Bay Area winter. Hope I didn't just jinx myself and it's a dry CX season. If they hold up, they'll go in my CX rig with a 386evo crank.
As for preload, I absolutely love the way Rotor does it with their adjuster, it's like an ultra fine shimano adjuster, actually almost an exact knock off of the XTR M970 setup. I prefer this method to the wavy washer for noise reasons. Get a little bit of grit in the fit of the washer and with a little side play you get a nice crunchy sound.


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## roadworthy (Nov 11, 2011)

rcb78 said:


> Well, I'm trying out set of Phil Wood 6806's with their marine quality seals right now, we'll see how they handle a Bay Area winter. Hope I didn't just jinx myself and it's a dry CX season. If they hold up, they'll go in my CX rig with a 386evo crank.
> As for preload, I absolutely love the way Rotor does it with their adjuster, it's like an ultra fine shimano adjuster, actually almost an exact knock off of the XTR M970 setup. I prefer this method to the wavy washer for noise reasons. Get a little bit of grit in the fit of the washer and with a little side play you get a nice crunchy sound.


I am pretty good with all of them really. Yeah, Rotor's set up is slick. I also like Shimano cranks but even wave washer cranks. Biggest issue with wave washer is the average guy doesn't know how to set up washer preload...get spacing correct. A wave washer when properly set up keeps a consistent preload on the bearings keeping them quiet even after they break in and bed fractionally. Mechanical preload cranks don't do that. Not a big deal either way.
Phil Wood aka ABEC-10 bearings have to be freaky good. As good as it gets with bearing tolerances. ABEC 5 bearings are excellent and less than 1/2 the price. 
With Cx, of course contamination is a factor and BB30 is a bit more challenged for this application. One can even go with a Praxis style collet BB with sealed bearings with BB30 and run an external bearing crank.
Great to have options and as you know, we have a lot of them which confuses the average consumer. Campy is coming out with a BB30 crank for 2014. I want to see how the preload adjustment works on the new Campy crank. I believe it requires a special key to adjust the lock collar.
Best Regards.


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## nis240sxt (Oct 6, 2004)

Thanks rcb78, will definitely use your advice when I build mine up. So just to confirm, the Allez Expert (OSBB) is a true BB30 and not PF30 right?


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## roadworthy (Nov 11, 2011)

nis240sxt said:


> Thanks rcb78, will definitely use your advice when I build mine up. So just to confirm, the Allez is a true BB30 and not PF30 right?


May want to specify which model of Allez. Most of Specialized Sworks bikes are PF30.
In the context of the crank it doesn't matter either way. As to PF30 install, as mentioned, Specialized now spec's a low strength epoxy for attaching delrin bushings to carbon BB shell. Check their latest service manual which tends to be an 'evolution' and part of the reason why customers struggle with integrated BB's. Latest Specialized procedure I have seen shows no Loctite between delrin bushings and BB30 bearings...but epoxy to keep the delrin bushings quiet for carbon OSBB aka narrow PF30.


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## b_new_b (Aug 26, 2010)

nis240sxt, I would have to ride them back to back, but from what I can remember feeling they are extremely close in performance and feel. The Allez will not hold you back in any race, neighborhood group ride or Strava KOM , if it is built up right.
At 140lbs though maybe my power and strength just don't hit the extremes like a 250lbs person would, therefor, maybe I'm not the test mule to be able to feel the differences.
But for the money, and for me, I don't feel performance wise, I need anything else.


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## rcb78 (Jun 15, 2008)

AFAIK all Allez's are either threaded (BSA) or a true BB30. The PF30 frames are carbon.
The loctite method works for PF30 assemblies in carbon shells too, and the primer is even more important because there are, what they call "passive metals, inert surfaces, and large gaps". Ti and Aluminum are considered passive metals, plastics and carbon are considered inert.
I'm sure that the epoxy method works just as well. Haven't gone that route myself though because I prefer the cleanup of loctite materials.


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## roadworthy (Nov 11, 2011)

rcb78 said:


> AFAIK all Allez's are either threaded (BSA) or a true BB30. The PF30 frames are carbon.
> The loctite method works for PF30 assemblies in carbon shells too, and the primer is even more important because there are, what they call "passive metals, inert surfaces, and large gaps". Ti and Aluminum are considered passive metals, plastics and carbon are considered inert.
> I'm sure that the epoxy method works just as well. Haven't gone that route myself though because I prefer the cleanup of loctite materials.


As an engineer, I tend to side with the guys that develop and spec the BB's because I know what goes into the development. In the case of Specialized, they determined that a low strength epoxy is more effective for adhering Delrin which is an acetal and natively lubrice...to carbon. I agree with this. Further, once bonded and after many thousand miles and time to replace the Delrin bushings which are somewhat sacrificial by design...they can be easily pushed out because of low epoxy shear strength by design and the bushing forms a natural mold for the epoxy film. Epoxy residue is not detrimental but rather adheres to the carbon naturally and of course is analogous material to rebond replacement Delrin bushings with fresh epoxy. Specialized initially didn't spec any bonding adhesive between carbon shells and Delrin bushings for their version of PF30. Then they spec'ed Loctite due to complaints of creaking. Now they spec epoxy. Their test and field data base has evolved and they have migrated to this solution which I agree with.


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## nis240sxt (Oct 6, 2004)

I can definitely vouch for the creaking with the PF30/carbon shells. My Venge creaks intermittently due to my installer not using epoxy as advised by Spesh. Thanks for all the useful info!


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## roadworthy (Nov 11, 2011)

nis240sxt said:


> I can definitely vouch for the creaking with the PF30/carbon shells. My Venge creaks intermittently due to my installer not using epoxy as advised by Spesh. Thanks for all the useful info!


A couple of things:
When you decide to address your creak, replace the Delrin bushings...they aren't expensive. What happens is...when not expoxied or Loctited, they squirm and distort and hence degrade.
Second thing is...before you have your bike shop do it...ask Specialized for the spec on the epoxy. You want a low strength variant which is less invasive and better for removing the bushings in the future for the next maintenance.
Last thing you want to ask Speclalized tech department: Does Specialized now spec Loctite for the outer race of the BB30 bearings as they are pressed into the Delring bushings? Their latest service manual does not show this and this is a conspicuous absence. My thought it would be best to Loctite the bearing to the ID of the Delrin bushing and epoxy the Delrin bushing to the BB. Specialized can confirm the procedure. If you contact them, come back here and report what their latest installation practice is. Part of the outcry with PF/BB30 is major bike companies are always tinkering with the installation procedure to make it most robust.
You want to run with the latest lessons learned.
HTH.


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