# Just test rode a 2011 tarmac...question



## Dcmkx2000 (Mar 18, 2010)

Have a Felt F95 entry level with tiagra rear and sora front. I tested a 2011 tarmac with SRAM apex. I love the shifters and the double tap system. However when I rode the bike I feel like the drive train made a lot of noise. I know certain gears will make more noise, but in certain gears my bike is pretty quiet. I was the first to ride the bike, I don't know how well lubed the chain was, and I know cables stretch and it takes at least a 100 miles or so and then some adjustment before you really get it dialed in. When they get a roubaix in with rival im going to ride that too. 

Is this the case? 

Or is APEX like this?

Would RIVAL be quieter?

I wasn't that much more impressed with the shifting then mine. Any thoughts?


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## xximanoobxx (Jun 10, 2010)

From what I've heard, SRAM tends to be quick on shifting but noisy, while Shimano shifts smooth as butter. My SRAM Rival/Force mix sometimes is loud, but I sdon't have much experience with SRAM since I just got my new bike on Friday. I too, came from an F95


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## pdainsworth (Jun 6, 2004)

All of the SRAM road bike stuff is a bit noisy. I ride a Red equipped bike, have assembled and ridden several Apex bikes, and my co-workers ride Red and Force bikes. They are all a bit noise. Switching to a Shimano cassette MAY quiet things down a bit, from what I've been told.


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## thekidd (Apr 4, 2009)

..............


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## PJ352 (Dec 5, 2007)

I agree with what's been posted thus far. If you want refinement (in feel and operation), Shimano is probably the better choice for you. If you prefer a more mechanical feel/ sound, SRAM will have some appeal. 

I prefer to hear tires on the tarmac over the sound of the drivetrain, but YMMV.


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## pdainsworth (Jun 6, 2004)

PJ352 said:


> I agree with what's been posted thus far. If you want refinement (in feel and operation), Shimano is probably the better choice for you. If you prefer a more mechanical feel/ sound, SRAM will have some appeal.
> 
> I prefer to hear tires on the tarmac over the sound of the drivetrain, but YMMV.


One man's refinement is another man's "soft" or "imprecise." Of course, one man's assertive and positive (my opinion of SRAM) is an other's "mechanical."


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## Ninja10 (Oct 7, 2010)

I got my first road bike Roubaix Elite Apex and it's a little noisy (but not that bad) in lower gears and super quite in higher gears. Don't have any experience with Shimano but the SRAM double tap is very quick in up shift.


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## PJ352 (Dec 5, 2007)

pdainsworth said:


> One man's refinement is another man's "soft" or "imprecise." Of course, one man's assertive and positive (my opinion of SRAM) is an other's "mechanical."


Points taken, but I'd be interested to read your explanation of how Shimano's shifting is imprecise. Obviously this assumes the drivetrain is dialed in.

Also, where does 'noisy' fit into assertive and positive.


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## pdainsworth (Jun 6, 2004)

PJ352 said:


> Points taken, but I'd be interested to read your explanation of how Shimano's shifting is imprecise. Obviously this assumes the drivetrain is dialed in.
> 
> Also, where does 'noisy' fit into assertive and positive.


Points taken as well. I would say that the Shimano rear shifter feels a bit imprecise in that there is a less defined feel as to when the shift takes place. There is no definite "thunk" as there is with the SRAM stuff. 
Noisy is just noisy, I guess.


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## PJ352 (Dec 5, 2007)

pdainsworth said:


> Points taken as well. I would say that the Shimano rear shifter feels a bit imprecise in that there is a less defined feel as to when the shift takes place. *There is no definite "thunk" as there is with the SRAM stuff. *
> Noisy is just noisy, I guess.


I agree. Sometimes my shifter makes more noise than the actual gear change (thus my use of the word, refined). Once dialed in, IME 10 spd 105/ Ultegra is very precise, quiet and smooth running/ operating. 

However, like most, I'm almost always thinking about 'that next bike', and wouldn't rule out SRAM at some point in the future.


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## purdyd (Jun 18, 2010)

speaking as relatively new to SRAM Red I would say that there is definitely more noise during the shift but not really that much different in running noise

of course i am not using a SRAM chaing, and neither does specialized with their SRAM setups

Personally, i like the noise during the shift as I get more feedback that it actually happened

what has been an eye opener for me is how nice the front deraileur has been in terms of shifting

and honestly, SRAM and Shimano have put so much tech in their low end groups that at least performance wise, they are very close to the pricey high end stuff in terms of shifting


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## PJ352 (Dec 5, 2007)

purdyd said:


> Personally, i like the noise during the shift as I get more feedback that it actually happened


Doesn't the change in your cadence tell you that?


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## purdyd (Jun 18, 2010)

PJ352 said:


> Doesn't the change in your cadence tell you that?


no, it doesn't always tell you that, as you might be coasting a bit when you shift, think going down hill or coasting down hill and running up a hill on the other side, or changing gears as you are slowing down for a stop light so you will be ready to go again when it changes

or even riding in a group and drafting which will often produce a lot of coasting situations

and sometimes gear ratios are so close it can be hard to tell if the shift occured simply from pedal force and cadence


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## nismo73 (Jul 29, 2009)

Don't ride SRAM except SRAM X.9 on my mountain bike, but my 5600 105 drivetrain on my Roubaix is quiet. I really don't hear it unless I ride closely past a wall or parked cars where I'll hear the sound reflecting off the objects. So during normal riding, I hear the tires and Askiums churning through the air.


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## nismo73 (Jul 29, 2009)

Don't ride SRAM except SRAM X.9 on my mountain bike, but my 5600 105 drivetrain on my Roubaix is quiet. I really don't hear it unless I ride closely past a wall or parked cars where I'll hear the sound reflecting off the objects. So during normal riding, I hear the tires and Askiums churning through the air.

And btw, the drivetrain has never been adjusted since I bought the bike in Aug. '09 plus I've changed the cassette to Ultegra.


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## PJ352 (Dec 5, 2007)

purdyd said:


> no, it doesn't always tell you that, as you might be coasting a bit when you shift, think going down hill or coasting down hill and running up a hill on the other side, or changing gears as you are slowing down for a stop light so you will be ready to go again when it changes
> 
> or even riding in a group and drafting which will often produce a lot of coasting situations
> 
> and sometimes gear ratios are so close it can be hard to tell if the shift occured simply from pedal force and cadence


IMO your style of riding is odd in that you mention coasting frequently. An integral part of road riding is maintaining a smooth and steady cadence, varying with terrain. IME mtn bikers new to the road tend to ride the style you describe, but learn with time to pedal consistently. This explains your comments re: SRAM.


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## c_kyle (May 28, 2010)

PJ352 said:


> IME mtn bikers new to the road tend to ride the style you describe, but learn with time to pedal consistently. This explains your comments re: SRAM.


This is true in my case. It takes time and group rides to develop cadence. This is, I think, why I prefer to hammer up hills, instead of spinning like most other people.


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## PJ352 (Dec 5, 2007)

c_kyle said:


> This is true in my case. It takes time and group rides to develop cadence. This is, I think, why I prefer to hammer up hills, instead of spinning like most other people.


It does take some time and some effort to keep focused on smoothing out cadence. Just be careful of the 'hammering' or 'mashing' (as some say) because in the right conditions too low cadence _can_ stress the knees, leading to injury. Trust me on this one.

Here's something you may find useful:
http://www.cptips.com/knee.htm

OP: apologies for straying off topic.


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## purdyd (Jun 18, 2010)

PJ352 said:


> IMO your style of riding is odd in that you mention coasting frequently. An integral part of road riding is maintaining a smooth and steady cadence,.


no what is odd is that you say you can tell what gear you are in from your change in cadence,

however, then you say you should maintain your cadence

if you maintain your cadence then you will find yourself changing your force which will decrease when you start down, and increase when you go up hills

when you get in a group line on flats that force will change because of drafting and your position

next time you get a chance check out the real time power output that SRM provided during the tour de france and how much power varied while riders were in the peloton and yet cadence stays the same

so when you change gears you can tell by change in force, not cadence and if you are not hammering on your pedals, then it can be difficult to sense that change


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## PJ352 (Dec 5, 2007)

purdyd said:


> no what is odd is that you say you can tell what gear you are in from your change in cadence,
> 
> however, then you say you should maintain your cadence
> 
> ...


You're misquoting me. I didn't say I could tell which gear I was in based on any change in cadence (nor would I care). What I said was I could tell a gear change occurred from a change in cadence.

Yes, riders should maintain cadence, but that doesn't mean in the strictest sense where it can't vary with terrain. Clearly, you're taking what I say out of context, I suspect in an effort to support your flawed 'argument'.

Yes, since I've been road riding for 25+ years now, I fully understand that more force (uphills) equals more resistance and the reverse is true on downhills, but thanks for that insight.

The remainder of your post deals in varying force/ resistance, but that's irrelevant to the discussion of being aware of changing gear based on cadence. No matter the force applied, as long as a rider is pedaling s/he's _going_ to be aware of a change in cadence. Simple as that.

What I've offered are established best practices of road riding - that being keeping a smooth, steady cadence appropriate for the terrain/ conditions. That requires a smooth and steady pedal stroke as well. But if you want to periodically coast and shift while doing so, needing to prominently hear gear changes to ensure you executed a shift, by all means do so.

We've strayed off topic for long enough that IMO continuing requires a new thread, so barring that, this is my last post on the issue.


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## purdyd (Jun 18, 2010)

PJ352 said:


> What I said was I could tell a gear change occurred from a change in cadence.


what i offered was an opinion, i too have ridden bikes for a long time too, back with friction shifters you would listen to the noise when shifting

if you are going to judge the shift by the feel on the pedals, it make take you turn or two to notice it

where if you get that 'click' or chain noise climbing the cassette, you know quicker that the shift was made - and yes, Shimano has that too, it is just more subtle

if you are coasting to a stop and shifting to get ready to start again, you will have less 'feel' on the pedal - there are plenty of times i shift with little force on the pedals

i can understand why people like quiet shifting, i do too

when i was setting up the SRAM Red on my new bike i was somewhat surprised out how load the brifter click was and thought this is really going to annoy me

on the road, i don't find the noise over intrusive and it gives me more feedback

as far as chain noise when not shifting, i don't find that overly intrusive either in spite of using the red cassette - perhaps that is because i am using the KMC chain rather than the Red

no where did i say i prefer SRAM over Shimano, simply said that in my opinion, the shifting noise gave me more feedback and I don't find it overly intrusive

one mans loud noise is another's feedback on shifting


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## blackjack (Sep 7, 2010)

Just ride Campy for goodness sake.

Get a centaur group from Pbk and then you'll know you shifted gears.

It's very quiet when in gear.


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