# Spoke gauges



## jp_nyc (May 1, 2005)

Can someone explain spoke gauges to me? I was planning on building a rear wheel with double-butted Champion spokes, but I've noticed that 14g and 15g straight spokes are half as expensive. What is the reason? Also, I built my previous wheel with 2.0-1.8-2.0 Champion spokes -- how does that translate into gauge numbers?

If you were to build a wheel, which would you use, and why?

(and which is stronger: 14g or 15g?)

Thanks.
JP


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## cxwrench (Nov 9, 2004)

*here ya go...*



jp_nyc said:


> Can someone explain spoke gauges to me? I was planning on building a rear wheel with double-butted Champion spokes, but I've noticed that 14g and 15g straight spokes are half as expensive. What is the reason? Also, I built my previous wheel with 2.0-1.8-2.0 Champion spokes -- how does that translate into gauge numbers?
> 
> If you were to build a wheel, which would you use, and why?
> 
> ...


straight gauge spokes are cheaper because they don't have to go through the butting process to make the center thinner. your butted champion spokes are 14/15/14.

which gauge/butting you use depends on your size, what you'll use them for, and what kind of conditions they'll generally be used in. can't answer you question w/o more info. and, give what you now know about spokes, you can figure out which is stronger, right?

oh yeah, i go along w/ those that beleive that butted spokes are always stronger than straights. the idea is the butting will allow the spoke to bend in the middle rather than transferring the load directly to the end of the spoke and breaking it there.


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## jp_nyc (May 1, 2005)

*Sheldon Brown*

OK, I just checked Sheldon's site and he explains the confusing situation quite clearly.


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## jp_nyc (May 1, 2005)

Thanks, that was very helpful. 

So what do the gauge numbers refer to and what do the other numbers (2.0-1.8-2.0) refer to? I guess the answer to that will tell me why smaller gauge numbers apply to thicker spokes...


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## Dave_Stohler (Jan 22, 2004)

*Nothing to do with bending....*



cxwrench said:


> oh yeah, i go along w/ those that beleive that butted spokes are always stronger than straights. the idea is the butting will allow the spoke to bend in the middle rather than transferring the load directly to the end of the spoke and breaking it there.


The stress on a spoke is purely tensile. Spokes have extremely limited strength in bending or compressive situations.


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## tomacropod (Jul 23, 2004)

aren't the DT 2.0/1.8/2.0 spokes called Competitions? Doesn't matter, it's the same thing as a champion, just butted in the middle. I'm running those 14/15/14 spokes on my rear fixie wheel, very nice. I run DT Revolutions (2.0/1.5/2.0 - these numbers refer to the millimetre diameter BTW, easier to remember than a gauge measurement which makes no sense to me) on most of my wheels though, with alloy nipples. It saves a huge amount of weight and I don't notice any difference in wheel strength or longevity over when I used to run straight gauge 2.0s and brass nipples on everything.

- Joel


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## Mark McM (Jun 18, 2005)

jp_nyc said:


> Thanks, that was very helpful.
> 
> So what do the gauge numbers refer to and what do the other numbers (2.0-1.8-2.0) refer to? I guess the answer to that will tell me why smaller gauge numbers apply to thicker spokes...


Refering to spokes by wire gauge size is archaic. All spoke manufacturers now label their spokes by diameter(s). For example, a 2.0/1.8/2.0 spoke is a butted with spoke with 2.0 mm diameter ends and a 1.8 mm diameter middle section. (Also, wire gauge isn't consistent between nations - for example, the french 14 gauge wire diameter is no the same as the british 14 gauge wire diameter).

But old traditions die hard, I guess. DT hasn't labeled their spokes by wire gauge in more than a decade, but bike shop employees (even new ones) still refer to them by wire gauge. I recently went to shop to get some spokes, and asked the mechanic for some DT 2.0/1.8 spokes. The mechanic looked confused for a moment, and then said, "Oh, you mean 14/15 gauge butted spokes!" He then turned around and grabbed a box of spokes labeled only "DT 2.0/1.8".

(**Note: Spoke gauges refer to the gauge of the wire the spoke is made from - google search on "wire gauges" for more information on gauge sizes.)


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## Kerry Irons (Feb 25, 2002)

*Straight up*



jp_nyc said:


> Can someone explain spoke gauges to me, and which is stronger: 14g or 15g?


2.0 mm = 14 ga.
1.8 mm = 15 ga.
1.6 mm = 16 ga

Thicker spokes are stronger, but may not be necessary depending on the application. Butted spokes distribute forces better and therefore build stronger wheels. Spokes "never" break in the middle, rather mostly at the head and sometimes at the nipple. There's no need for the extra material in the middle of the spoke. Anyone who says that straight gauge builds a stronger wheel is more likely saying that they can make more profit building with straight spokes or are speaking from ignorance.


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## TurboTurtle (Feb 4, 2004)

"Anyone who says that straight gauge builds a stronger wheel is more likely saying that they can make more profit building with straight spokes or are speaking from ignorance."

Or are use to building wheels that take physical abuse other than just fatigue. - TF


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## Kerry Irons (Feb 25, 2002)

*Good point*



TurboTurtlebuilding wheels that take physical abuse other than just fatigue.[/QUOTE said:


> Agreed. Not being an MTB or 'cross rider, I tend to think of general road use. If you're getting whacked by branches and other riders, straight gauge might be the way to go.


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## jp_nyc (May 1, 2005)

Well, I won't be using alloy nipples on this wheel. The tiny bit of weight savings isn't worth the frustration and hassle of stripped nipples (and the alloys strip ridiculously easily). But I've decided to use db spokes, seems like the best option.


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## Spoke Wrench (Aug 20, 2001)

jp_nyc said:


> Thanks, that was very helpful.
> 
> So what do the gauge numbers refer to and what do the other numbers (2.0-1.8-2.0) refer to? I guess the answer to that will tell me why smaller gauge numbers apply to thicker spokes...


I've had gauges described to me as the number of pieces of wire that you'd have to lay side by side to make an inch so 17 gauge wire is going to be skinnier than 14 gauge.
It doesn't work out perfectly because 2.0mm = 14 gauge but 14 x 2.0 = 28mm which is a little more than an inch.


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## Dave_Stohler (Jan 22, 2004)

TurboTurtle said:


> "Anyone who says that straight gauge builds a stronger wheel is more likely saying that they can make more profit building with straight spokes or are speaking from ignorance."
> F


Not quite true. If I were going to do something really heavy duty (such as build a wheel for the Cirque du Soliel stunt bike that carries 15 people), and if it wasn't going to be doing many miles, then yes, a straight gague spoked wheel is stronger, even if it's less durable.


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## Mark McM (Jun 18, 2005)

*Still not quite true*



Dave_Stohler said:


> Not quite true. If I were going to do something really heavy duty (such as build a wheel for the Cirque du Soliel stunt bike that carries 15 people), and if it wasn't going to be doing many miles, then yes, a straight gague spoked wheel is stronger, even if it's less durable.


This still isn't quite true. While it is true that straight spokes can have greater tensile strength than butted, in practical use this has little consequence because spokes see very little increase in tension with load. Wheels bear loads not be increases in tension, but by decreases in tension (in the bottom spokes). Fatigue is the killer of spokes, not overload (well, other than cases where objects actually go into the spokes).


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## divve (May 3, 2002)

jp_nyc said:


> Well, I won't be using alloy nipples on this wheel. The tiny bit of weight savings isn't worth the frustration and hassle of stripped nipples (and the alloys strip ridiculously easily). But I've decided to use db spokes, seems like the best option.


With good nipples (DT Swiss or Sapim) and a quality tool (DT) you'll have a hard time stripping aluminum nipples even if you tried to.


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