# Help with TPI count, Conti Tires



## chas0039 (Jun 26, 2007)

I see on the Continental web site that quite a few of their tires are listed as 3 ply and then they multiply the TPI time 3 to arrive at the total count. I don't see this with other tire web sites so my question is, can I directly compare the total Conti TPI to Vittoria and others?

Thanks


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## Kerry Irons (Feb 25, 2002)

*Counting*



chas0039 said:


> I see on the Continental web site that quite a few of their tires are listed as 3 ply and then they multiply the TPI time 3 to arrive at the total count. I don't see this with other tire web sites so my question is, can I directly compare the total Conti TPI to Vittoria and others?


You have to know how a given tire company reports their numbers. It's like knowing whether wheel weights include skewers. That said, thread count is one of the last things to worry about when choosing tires. Thread count is only one of several parameters that designers can control to vary tire performance. Tire companies report the number because people fall for the "higher number is better" mentality.


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## Alaska Mike (Sep 28, 2008)

I agree with Kerry, because rubber compound generally has as much to do with the characteristics of the tire as TPI does, not to mention the way the tire is laid up..

That said, I generally compare tires with similar TPI ranges against each other. The tires I use most are roughly 60TPI for commuting/rough conditions, 120TPI for all-around use, and 220TPI for racing. YMMV, for a variety of reasons (rider weight, road conditions...).

The best advice I can give you is to see what riders around you recommend. In some cases and in some applications, Vittoria may trump Continental (or vice versa). There is no "best" tire, just the best one for you.


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## chas0039 (Jun 26, 2007)

Thanks, I am aware that TPI is only one of the things to look at when assessing a tire. I generally want to avoid higher counts as I prefer wear over racing. What got my attention was a very low thread count, 26TPI for one Vittoria tire that made me wonder. It turned out that this tire was particularly rough when I looked for opinions so I avoided it.

The problem here, too often, is that people will recommend a tire or a particular brand without mentioning what they like. Many times the number of flats seems to be what they look at. So it is hard to determine if their criteria is the same as mine. The one thing I do know is that I generally have found that tires with 60-80 TPI are the ones I want so that is why I wanted to make sure Conti was consistent, especially when I see one of their highly respected tires at 330TPI.


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## rruff (Feb 28, 2006)

All of Conti's top tires have 110 tpi casings. They tend to be fast and puncture resistant, also wear well depending on tread thickness. The Black Chili tread is really good stuff.


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## chas0039 (Jun 26, 2007)

rruff said:


> All of Conti's top tires have 110 tpi casings. They tend to be fast and puncture resistant, also wear well depending on tread thickness. The Black Chili tread is really good stuff.



Well see, this is exactly what I am asking about. Conti's site clearly states 330 TPI for their GP 4000.

Obviously it is 110 per ply time 3. I just want to make sure there is some kind of standard that allows me to compare TPI from one to the other and that no one is listing a TPI per ply while someone else is listing the total TPI for all plys. Most other manufacturer's do not list the number of plys.


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## Mr. Scary (Dec 7, 2005)

chas0039 said:


> Well see, this is exactly what I am asking about. Conti's site clearly states 330 TPI for their GP 4000.
> 
> Obviously it is 110 per ply time 3. I just want to make sure there is some kind of standard that allows me to compare TPI from one to the other and that no one is listing a TPI per ply while someone else is listing the total TPI for all plys. Most other manufacturer's do not list the number of plys.


Because most others are reporting for a single ply (Continental is the only company i know that reports their TPI as a function of the number of plies). Higher TPI tires tend to use the tubular construction method whether they are a clincher or a tubular (tread is glued to the casing as opposed to the tread being vulcanized).


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## chas0039 (Jun 26, 2007)

Mr. Scary said:


> Because most others are reporting for a single ply (Continental is the only company i know that reports their TPI as a function of the number of plies). Higher TPI tires tend to use the tubular construction method whether they are a clincher or a tubular (tread is glued to the casing as opposed to the tread being vulcanized).


So is what you are saying that I am correct and I should divide any TPI by 3 for a Conti 3 ply tire when I try to compare them to others? This doesn't quite seem right when I look at prices between Continental and Vittoria and closely priced tires have close TPI ratings.

Rubino Pro vs Ultra Race and Rubino vs Ultra Sport are both very close in price and TPI ratings. Possibly Vittoria has a single ply? 

I am guessing I should just ignore the fact that Conti mentions 3 ply and go directly by total no matter who I look at. I just don't want to be getting bad info.


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## Mr. Scary (Dec 7, 2005)

chas0039 said:


> So is what you are saying that I am correct and I should divide any TPI by 3 for a Conti 3 ply tire when I try to compare them to others? This doesn't quite seem right when I look at prices between Continental and Vittoria and closely priced tires have close TPI ratings.
> 
> Rubino Pro vs Ultra Race and Rubino vs Ultra Sport are both very close in price and TPI ratings. Possibly Vittoria has a single ply?
> 
> I am guessing I should just ignore the fact that Conti mentions 3 ply and go directly by total no matter who I look at. I just don't want to be getting bad info.


Continental is the only company that does this, what's so hard to understand? Everybody else reports tpi by single ply and Continental reports for the entire tire (folded plies). 

Pricing doesn't mean anything, BTW. Higher end Continentals are made in Germany but vulcanized. Vittorias are all made in Thailand but the high end ones are a glued construction (more labor intensive).


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## rruff (Feb 28, 2006)

I'd not worry about the TPI much. I've tried the fancy open tubular 300+ TPI tires and they might ride a bit better and they have slightly lower rolling resistance compared to a GP4000 (lab tested) but they are not as flat resistant or long lasting. 

And for all out speed (low rolling resistance and weight) the Supersonics are best... and IME are at least as puncture resistant as the high TPI tires. The SS has the same casing as the GP4000, but with thinner tread and without the vectran belt.


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## chas0039 (Jun 26, 2007)

Mr. Scary said:


> Continental is the only company that does this, what's so hard to understand? Everybody else reports tpi by single ply and Continental reports for the entire tire (folded plies).
> 
> Pricing doesn't mean anything, BTW. Higher end Continentals are made in Germany but vulcanized. Vittorias are all made in Thailand but the high end ones are a glued construction (more labor intensive).


I guess I'll just ignore Continental TPI as I look at tires. "what's so hard to understand?" is pretty easy: I just wanted to be able to compare TPI for Continental to other tires.

I know it is not the beginning and the end of tire comparison. I just want to be able to have accurate information and for some reason, I can't get it. I guess at least I know that Continental is the only company who does this so that is something.

Thanks for trying guys.


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## tarwheel2 (Jul 7, 2005)

To me, Conti GP 4000s ride about as well or better than any tire I have tried. They also wear well and have great flat resistance. That's all I need to know. I've got some Torelli tires with a high thread count (300), and honestly don't notice any difference in ride quality between them and the GP 4000s.


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## stevesbike (Jun 3, 2002)

tpi is just one component; here's a link to a test that has had a lot of discussion (note Michelin pro race 3 not included). 

http://www.conti-online.com/generat...al/downloads/download/tourtest_gp4000s_en.pdf


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## Blue CheeseHead (Jul 14, 2008)

chas0039 said:


> So is what you are saying that I am correct and I should divide any TPI by 3 for a Conti 3 ply tire when I try to compare them to others? This doesn't quite seem right when I look at prices between Continental and Vittoria and closely priced tires have close TPI ratings.
> 
> Rubino Pro vs Ultra Race and Rubino vs Ultra Sport are both very close in price and TPI ratings. Possibly Vittoria has a single ply?
> 
> I am guessing I should just ignore the fact that Conti mentions 3 ply and go directly by total no matter who I look at. I just don't want to be getting bad info.


IMO you are much better off listening to opinions on tires than trying to a comparison of physical characteristics. TPI does not tell you much. You might as well judge based on the tire's color.


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