# Hincapie, Zabriskie, Horner



## Francis Cebedo (Aug 1, 2001)

So much hope for the americans and they have embarassed themselves.

These guys follow up their disappointing time trials with pathetic climbing.

Official Results - Stage 11
This report filed July 13, 2006
[SIZE=-1]<small>1. Denis Menchov (Rus), Rabobank, 206.5km in 6:06:25 (33.813kph)
*2. Levi Leipheimer (USA), Gerolsteiner, 00:00
3. Floyd Landis (USA), Phonak, 00:00
*</small>[/SIZE]
[SIZE=-1]<small>*
46. George Hincapie (USA), Discovery Channel, 21:23
**117. David Zabriskie (USA), CSC, 40:32
**154. Christopher Horner (USA), Davitamon-Lotto, 44:20

*Are they sick or are they just no good? Oh add Julich to the list with his forgettable year and TT choke job.

As bad as these guys have performed. Landis has been as good. And Levi has made an admirable comeback.

fc
</small>[/SIZE]


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## chuckice (Aug 25, 2004)

francois said:


> So much hope for the americans and they have embarassed themselves.
> 
> These guys follow up their disappointing time trials with pathetic climbing.
> 
> ...


where'd you get the notion that DZ was a climber?


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## desmo13 (Jun 28, 2006)

embarassed seems a little strong


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## cyclodawg (Jul 1, 2003)

Horner's just setting himself up to go for a stage win later. Zabriskie's showing the world that he has not yet devoted himself to being anything other than a TT specialist. He likely never will. 

Hincapie's performance today is a mystery. He rarely finished this poorly even while helping Lance. Might have made a mistake with food intake early, or he might not be feeling well. Either way, he's a breakaway candidate now and little more.


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## rollinrob (Dec 8, 2002)

francois]So much hope for the americans and they have embarassed themselves.


Last I heard Levi and Landis are American. They seemed to do pretty good today!


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## cyclodawg (Jul 1, 2003)

One other-- 

Not sure where he finished today, but Vandevelde had ridden well up to today in the Tour. 

With the exception of Floyd, though, Americans have been snakebitten this year. Hincapie bad. Levi kills himself in the TT. Freddy and Julich crash and abandon.


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## Francis Cebedo (Aug 1, 2001)

chuckice said:


> where'd you get the notion that DZ was a climber?


Well, he can sure do a lot better than that.

At the brasstown bald climb in Tour de Georgia (which is a crushing uphill finish), Dave Z finished 2 minutes back on all out Landis. Today he is 40 minutes back. Sweet.

*Tour de Georgia Brasstown Bald Stage 2005 Results*


1 Thomas Danielson (USA) Discovery Channel 4.05.56
2 Floyd Landis (USA) Phonak Hearing Systems
3 Yaroslav Popovych (Ukr) Discovery Channel 0.18
4 Cesar Augusto Grajales (Col) Navigators Insurance 0.23
5 Janez Brajkovic (Slo) Discovery Channel
6 Remmert Wielinga (Ned) Quick Step-Innergetic 0.28
7 José Enrique Gutierrez Cataluna (Spa) Phonak Hearing Systems 0.49
8 Egoi Martinez De Esteban (Spa) Discovery Channel 1.35
9 Justin England (USA) Toyota-United Pro 1.49
10 Marco Pinotti (Ita) Prodir-Saunier Duval 1.58
11 Alberto Fernandez De La Puebla Ramos (Spa) Prodir-Saunier Duval 2.02
12 Johann Tschopp (Swi) Phonak Hearing Systems 2.07
13 David Zabriskie (USA) Team CSC

If he's saving himself, I don't know. He should at least be helping out Sastre.

fc


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## Francis Cebedo (Aug 1, 2001)

desmo13 said:


> embarassed seems a little strong


You're right my man. Maybe just Hincapie . Picked by some and wished by many to win the Tour...

fc


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## chuckice (Aug 25, 2004)

francois said:


> Well, he can sure do a lot better than that.
> 
> At the brasstown bald climb in Tour de Georgia (which is a crushing uphill finish), Dave Z finished 2 minutes back on all out Landis. Today he is 40 minutes back. Sweet.
> 
> ...


Look at the race profile for the Brasstown stage and compare to today. End of story.


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## 55x11 (Apr 24, 2006)

cyclodawg said:


> One other--
> 
> Not sure where he finished today, but Vandevelde had ridden well up to today in the Tour.
> 
> With the exception of Floyd, though, Americans have been snakebitten this year. Hincapie bad. Levi kills himself in the TT. Freddy and Julich crash and abandon.


None of which will matter as long as Floyd wins the Tour!


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## cyclodawg (Jul 1, 2003)

francois said:


> Well, he can sure do a lot better than that.
> 
> At the brasstown bald climb in Tour de Georgia (which is a crushing uphill finish), Dave Z finished 2 minutes back on all out Landis. Today he is 40 minutes back. Sweet.


The Brasstown stage actually is very similar to a TdF stage. It has a Cat I climb (Hogpen Gap) that's steep and long, followed by a Cat 2 climb (Unicoi Gap) that's not too steep but fairly long, followed by Brasstown, which is just ridiculous. Not too different from what they did today.

The difference is pace. The peloton creeped over the Cat 1 and Cat 2 at Georgia, then Landis and Danielson played with each other up Brasstown and let the field into the race at the end. Danielson refused to take a pull (at the behest of Bruyneel), and Landis almost did track stands at times on the climb trying to get Danielson to go up front. Popo managed to attack and crack about three times over 3 Km's because Landis and Danielson were so slow. 

Not too surprising that a guy like Zabriskie could manage not to lose too much time then, compared to today when the lead group was taking no prisoners. If Danielson and Landis had gone all out on that climb, Zabriskie probably loses 10 minutes over just 5 Km's (and Danielson probably gets his four seconds on Landis, IMO).


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## cyclodawg (Jul 1, 2003)

chuckice said:


> Look at the race profile for the Brasstown stage and compare to today. End of story.


Today did have a couple more Cat 1 climbs and was a tougher stage. But the finish at Brasstown is much, much, much more difficult than the finish today.


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## Francis Cebedo (Aug 1, 2001)

rollinrob said:


> francois]So much hope for the americans and they have embarassed themselves.
> 
> 
> Last I heard Levi and Landis are American. They seemed to do pretty good today!


Yess, I praise some and pummel some Umericans!

fc


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## botto (Jul 22, 2005)

francois said:


> So much hope for the americans and they have embarassed themselves.


Please explain how they _"embarassed themselves"_.

Did they commit some faux pas, that I missed? Were they caught on camera picking their noses? Did they take a 'sanitation pause' in front of the crowds? Did they stick their tongues out, ala Moreau? Were they crying big crocodile tears like Ree-shaaard V? Did someone discover that they had their ears tucked, like Pantani?

Please, do tell. Really, I want to know how they _"embarassed themselves"_?


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## triscuit (Sep 13, 2004)

While Leipheimer isn't going to win, whatever got him down seems to have passed and he may well finish in the top ten (if he does not implode again). He is now in 13th in overall standings, 5:39 down from Landis. He picked up a lot of time by coming in second on today's stage. I don't think he will make up any more on riders like Landis and Menchov, but he can probably pass by a few others in the GC to end up with a respectable time. Also, Vendevelde is still doing pretty well, in 23rd place right now, I think about 9 minutes back.

Go Floyd!!


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## Cruzer2424 (Feb 8, 2005)

francois said:


> So much hope for the americans and they have embarassed themselves.
> 
> These guys follow up their disappointing time trials with pathetic climbing.
> 
> ...



eh. Didn't Landis get hounded by Bruneel for coming 21st or something in a mountain stage in the 04 or 03 tour becuase he was supposed to be taking it easy? I think it was in one of the many Lance books. Its the most recent one I'm talking about. 

I guess my point is why go hard if you need to save yourself for something bigger? 

I know the magnitude of importantness is well reduced in my case, but I pulled out of the road race midway through the collegiate eastern conference championships, becuase I wanted to go for the win in the crit (only to get taken out by some squrilly folk in teh last 200m  ). Maybe he was doing the same thing.


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## chuckice (Aug 25, 2004)

cyclodawg said:


> Today did have a couple more Cat 1 climbs and was a tougher stage. But the finish at Brasstown is much, much, much more difficult than the finish today.


Brasstown is a very hard 4 mile climb but you can't even begin to compare that stage to today which starts blowing people apart from the first climb with still PLENTY of racing left in the day...


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## atpjunkie (Mar 23, 2002)

*yeah dunno what is up with George*

and I am bummed by his performance. I didn't think he'd win, I thought he'd do better than he is.
Horner is there to serve Robbie and Cadel,if he's lucky he can pursue a stage,maybe tomorrow.
Zabriskie, same. was brought there to work


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## cyclodawg (Jul 1, 2003)

chuckice said:


> Brasstown is a very hard 4 mile climb but you can't even begin to compare that stage to today which starts blowing people apart from the first climb with still PLENTY of racing left in the day...


I agree that the Brasstown stage did not have as many categorized climbs as today's stage did, but it is not too different from the typical TdF high mountain stage. The Brasstown stage is actually very similar to the Alpe d'Huez stage they'll ride next Tuesday, with one very tough climb, a cat 2, then the uphill finish on an HC climb. 

The difference, again, is that the pace in the Tour de Georgia is nothing like what they do in France.


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## FondriestFan (May 19, 2005)

Julich's "choke job"???

Anybody discuss your "choke job" at that mountain bike race?

No, because crashes happen. Mistakes happen. It doesn't = choking.


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## chuckice (Aug 25, 2004)

cyclodawg said:


> I agree that the Brasstown stage did not have as many categorized climbs as today's stage did, but it is not too different from the typical TdF high mountain stage. The Brasstown stage is actually very similar to the Alpe d'Huez stage they'll ride next Tuesday, with one very tough climb, a cat 2, then the uphill finish on an HC climb.
> 
> The difference, again, is that the pace in the Tour de Georgia is nothing like what they do in France.


Today's stage starts blowing up the peloton at the Tourmalet and never lets up...there's just no comparing it to Brasstown. The actual Brasstown finish is ridiculously steep but that stage/pace allows for non-climbers to keep contact for MUCH longer than today.


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## botto (Jul 22, 2005)

Cruzer2424 said:


> Maybe he was doing the same thing.


Doubt it. I didn't see any squirly riders take him out


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## Francis Cebedo (Aug 1, 2001)

FondriestFan said:


> Julich's "choke job"???
> 
> Anybody discuss your "choke job" at that mountain bike race?
> 
> No, because crashes happen. Mistakes happen. It doesn't = choking.


I'm just editorializing so don't take my harsh words too seriously.

I do think though that Julich felt the weight of responsibility on his shoulders might have been a bit much. He is a great time trialist and he botched that corner soo badly a couple of minutes into the TT. No other racer, rookie or otherwise went down as far as I know.

francois


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## Francis Cebedo (Aug 1, 2001)

botto said:


> Did they commit some faux pas, that I missed? Were they caught on camera picking their noses? Did they take a 'sanitation pause' in front of the crowds? Did they stick their tongues out, ala Moreau? Were they crying big crocodile tears like Ree-shaaard V? Did someone discover that they had their ears tucked, like Pantani?


That's very good :thumbsup:. I have no comeback!

francois


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## MB1 (Jan 27, 2004)

*Well.....there is an American in yellow.*

Can't do much better than that.

Perhaps if we just say that some American riders didn't live up to our high hopes.....


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## blackhat (Jan 2, 2003)

*il pirata*



botto said:


> <u>Did someone discover that they had their ears tucked, like Pantani</u>?


well...at least marco could climb like a angry goat, bet george would've happily traded a goofball surgery for some legs today.


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## Dwayne Barry (Feb 16, 2003)

I didn't expect anything of DZ. He is clearly a worker for CSC as they had him covering breaks the other day and really I don't think has ever climbed all that well.

Hincapie was a huge bust, but a lot of that was from pure post-Lance hype.

Horner was surely a huge disappointment for Evans. Unless things turn around both Landis and Evans are going to be isolated in the Alps.

There were lots of busts today; Rujano, Savoldelli, Popovych, Karpets.


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## bonkmiester (Sep 23, 2005)

chuckice said:


> Look at the race profile for the Brasstown stage and compare to today. End of story.


yeah.......and this isn't Stage 1 either......
b0nk


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## bonkmiester (Sep 23, 2005)

francois said:


> You're right my man. Maybe just Hincapie . Picked by some and wished by many to win the Tour...
> 
> fc



...so you are delighting in their dissapointment?....
b0nk


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## Einstruzende (Jun 1, 2004)

While it hasn't been as great as us Americans thought it would be, at least Landis has lived up to the hype. Leipheimer showed some grit today, and that was nice.


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## Francis Cebedo (Aug 1, 2001)

bonkmiester said:


> ...so you are delighting in their dissapointment?....
> b0nk


No. I picked him to be a top 10 talent and wished him to be top 3.

francois


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## botto (Jul 22, 2005)

blackhat said:


> well...at least marco could climb like a angry goat, bet george would've happily traded a goofball surgery for some legs today.


are you really going to compare a recidivist doper who offed himself in a dumpy hotel room surrounded by paranoid scribbled texts on gum wrappers, and a sack full of coke, to Hincapie?

puh-lease!


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## Coot72 (Nov 11, 2002)

*Lose time on purpose*

Once you know you can't podium, I think the best thing to do is lose lots of time. Then you can get in breaks and go for stage wins.


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## goose127 (Jun 9, 2004)

I don't think Hincapie is a bust. I think the bust was the media who hyped him up due to winning a stage last year. George has never been one of the best climbers, and he has never been the team leader. hard to change your spots at this point in your career. 

I think Horner is probably too beat up from his crashes earlier in the ride, and he is really suppossed to be helping Cadel. that means once you are dropped and you know you can't catch back on, you had better not burn any matches that day. 

Dave Z, is doing what he does. Bjarne Riis almost did not include him on the tour team. I don't know what his contract status is, but I think CSC may not even extend with him since he is so one dimensional.

Go Levi, and go Floyd


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## ultimobici (Jul 16, 2005)

botto said:


> are you really going to compare a recidivist doper who offed himself in a dumpy hotel room surrounded by paranoid scribbled texts on gum wrappers, and a sack full of coke, to Hincapie?
> 
> puh-lease!


Low doesn't come close to describing your comments.


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## Jesse D Smith (Jun 11, 2005)

botto said:


> are you really going to compare a recidivist doper who offed himself in a dumpy hotel room surrounded by paranoid scribbled texts on gum wrappers, and a sack full of coke, to Hincapie?
> 
> puh-lease!


Yes, I'm sure that's exactly the comparison he was making. He certainly wasn't thinking about some rider that could outclimb anyone else when he was inspired. Pantani never displayed any climbing ability. He only sat in hotel rooms and snorted coke his entire life. After all, that's the subject we're discussing here right?-the psychological weakness of deceased cyclists, nothing at all to do with on-the-bike climbing ability.


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## Fogdweller (Mar 26, 2004)

Geez you guys, go easy on Francois. He's on enough pain meds to kill a horse. Of course he's going to drool in his oatmeal all the way to Paris... Americans filled the ends of the bell curve today, I think that was his point. Keep the pot belge flowing oh fearless leader.


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## Francis Cebedo (Aug 1, 2001)

Fogdweller said:


> Geez you guys, go easy on Francois. He's on enough pain meds to kill a horse. Of course he's going to drool in his oatmeal all the way to Paris... Americans filled the ends of the bell curve today, I think that was his point. Keep the pot belge flowing oh fearless leader.


Ha, ha, thanks fog. I got off the Vicodin this week. Maybe that's the problem. :idea:
fc


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## FondriestFan (May 19, 2005)

I wasn't trying to be a jerk. I just feel really badly for Julich. Watching that video showing him in the hospital and seeing his disappointment was heart-wrenching. These guys put everything into 3 weeks of the year. 

Honestly, I don't think Hincapie as a "leader" was a marketing tool designed for the avid cyclist. It was designed for the average American sports fan, who wants to pull for an American, and if no yankee is in the fight, well, the remote goes "click".


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## Cruzer2424 (Feb 8, 2005)

botto said:


> Doubt it. I didn't see any squirly riders take him out


rofl. jerk. :ciappa:


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## Sub (Feb 13, 2004)

I sure wish I was a good enough cyclist to only lose 21 minutes on that stage! What is up with this board anyways, I've never seen so many negative posts in my life. from what I'm reading in other threads, we are suppose to dislike LA for some reason as well? I'm sure nobody is as disapointed as Hincapie is in himself. He did nothing wrong, and neither did the other 165 riders that got dropped.


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## botto (Jul 22, 2005)

ultimobici said:


> Low doesn't come close to describing your comments.


sorry, but i'm not going to prop up Pantani as something he wasn't. He died an addict. Nothing more, nothing less. The only difference between him, and some other addict, is that he was famous.


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## botto (Jul 22, 2005)

Jesse D Smith said:


> thinking about some rider that could outclimb anyone else when he was inspired.


inspired by what? 40,000 units of EPO, seven doses of growth hormone, thirty doses of anabolic steroids and four doses of hormones used to treat menopause?


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## WrongBikeFred (Oct 19, 2005)

chuckice said:


> Look at the race profile for the Brasstown stage and compare to today. End of story.


Amen my brother! 
Why is it that just because an American is in the tour OLN has Paul, Roll, and Phil playing them up to be the next great thing? This is mostly because new viewers don't always understand the different rolls the team members play, and because as a nation, we never tire of hearing our own name. I'm sure that the commentators are saying things to the OLN pencil pushers like "Zabriskie? In the mountains? No way!". Then OLN says, "Our market research shows that that’s what American couch potatoes want. So, unless to want to call the race on a HAM radio from the back of your VW van, you'll say what we tell you to say." It is a necessary evil that allows OLN it's ratings which gives them their sponsorship and therefore us our daily coverage. It is unfortunate for people like Zabriskie, because the public expects the wrong things from them and then hates on them for not delivering. It even occasionally fools real cyclists who actually can tell the difference between a climber and a cantaloupe.


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## ultimobici (Jul 16, 2005)

botto said:


> sorry, but i'm not going to prop up Pantani as something he wasn't. He died an addict. Nothing more, nothing less. The only difference between him, and some other addict, is that he was famous.


My comments would still apply no matter who you were talking of. The man had issues and they quite possibly led to his death. I am under no illusions regarding Pantani. he was a very troubled individual, and likely used dope, like many of his peers. Yet there is no need to slate him into the ground with comments such as you used.

It's called "common decency".


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## botto (Jul 22, 2005)

yeah, whatever.



ultimobici said:


> My comments would still apply no matter who you were talking of. The man had issues and they quite possibly led to his death. I am under no illusions regarding Pantani. he was a very troubled individual, and likely used dope, like many of his peers. Yet there is no need to slate him into the ground with comments such as you used.
> 
> It's called "common decency".


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## Vel07 (Oct 28, 2005)

francois said:


> No. I picked him to be a top 10 talent and wished him to be top 3.
> 
> francois


You and 55x11 are the smartest guys on the boards.


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## Francis Cebedo (Aug 1, 2001)

Sub said:


> I sure wish I was a good enough cyclist to only lose 21 minutes on that stage! What is up with this board anyways, I've never seen so many negative posts in my life. from what I'm reading in other threads, we are suppose to dislike LA for some reason as well? I'm sure nobody is as disapointed as Hincapie is in himself. He did nothing wrong, and neither did the other 165 riders that got dropped.


Hey, we celebrate awesome performances and pounce on miserable ones. That's what a TDF forum is for.

Sometimes we get critical but that's jus from seeing the same commercials on OLN over and over. Hey, beats working!

francois


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## blackhat (Jan 2, 2003)

*lol*



botto said:


> are you really going to compare a recidivist doper who offed himself in a dumpy hotel room surrounded by paranoid scribbled texts on gum wrappers, and a sack full of coke, to Hincapie?
> 
> puh-lease!


you're trolling right? I'll leave you to look up their palmares yourself but it's not a close contest.


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## botto (Jul 22, 2005)

blackhat said:


> you're trolling right?


ummmmmmmmm..... maybe. :wink:


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## Mootsie (Feb 4, 2004)

*Viva Vande Velde*

He was a last minute addtion to CSC and the Boulderite is having the tour of his life.


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## Sub (Feb 13, 2004)

francois said:


> Hey, we celebrate awesome performances and pounce on miserable ones. That's what a TDF forum is for.
> 
> Sometimes we get critical but that's jus from seeing the same commercials on OLN over and over. Hey, beats working!
> 
> francois



You do make a good point with that. I don't frequent RBR as much as I use to but I've been making it a point to visit almost daily for the last month or two again and it just seems that sometimes people have nothing better to do but to try and find something negative to talk about. People have been bashing on Phil Ligget even, blasphemy!


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## MootsRider (Jul 23, 2002)

I was fortunate enough to climb Mt. Ventoux last month and I kept thinking during the climb "How do the pro's do this???". Then to see an HC followed by 4 cat 1's just makes me marvel that any of them can finish, let alone climb on a bike the next day for another 200km over even more passes. So I will never complain or criticize riders for falling short.

It's too bad the Americans are struggling, but it's lots more interesting to see who's going to win every day and to see a real battle for the yellow jersey.


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