# SRAM 10 and 11 speed cassette spacing



## rplace13 (Apr 27, 2011)

Can't believe this has not been asked yet. I've searched quite a bit but can't find any answer.

Would it be possible to run SRAM 22 (red or force) shifters on an all otherwise SRAM 10 speed system and just not use one click of the right shifter?

L. Zinn says the pull on SRAM 10s and 11s is the same and you can use a 10s derailleur with 11s cassette/shifters. Wondering if the spacing on the cassette is the same just more of them going from 10s to 11s.

The reason I ask is I have been wanting to go disc hydraulic on my Gunnar Hyper X as a combo disc road/winter/gravel bike. I found a great deal on Red 22 shifters, but don't yet want to invest in converting my Chris King hubs, Cassette, possibly RD and FD....but I probably would over time.

If it would work I'm guessing I'd need an 11s chain which is no big deal. I'd just like to delay the outlay of cash for the King hub conversion and cassette.

I'm more in search of hydraulic brakes than I am the extra gear. I know I could go with SRAM S-700 10 speed levers but they are actually quite pricy and thinking I could future proof my bike a bit going 11s a little at a time.

Please no arguments about cable vs hydraulic or 10s vs 11s.

Thanks!


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## ericm979 (Jun 26, 2005)

It won't work. 11sp spacing is narrower than 10sp.


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## stevesbike (Jun 3, 2002)

For Shimano the spacing is 2.35mm for 10-speed to 2.18mm for 11. I'd assume SRAM is the same you can run SRAM shifters with Shimano cassettes. So that's .17mm per shift. Over 10 cogs, that would only be 1.7mm so it's might but might be noisy etc.


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## rplace13 (Apr 27, 2011)

Not a cassette expert by any means, would it be possible to use an 11s cassette and remove the last cog and still use the lock ring. There by getting the proper spacing between cogs but still only have 10 of them. I did find online that the sprocket thickness for campy/shimano/sram 10 and 11 speed are all the same at 1.6mm. Not that the campy does me any good. Just fond that interesting. Seems to me you could take any other sprocket out of the mix if you need the very last one to make the lock ring work.

Thoughts?

Thanks for the info so far.


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## bikerjulio (Jan 19, 2010)

rplace13 said:


> Not a cassette expert by any means, would it be possible to use an 11s cassette and remove the last cog and still use the lock ring. There by getting the proper spacing between cogs but still only have 10 of them. I did find online that the sprocket thickness for campy/shimano/sram 10 and 11 speed are all the same at 1.6mm. Not that the campy does me any good. Just fond that interesting. Seems to me you could take any other sprocket out of the mix if you need the very last one to make the lock ring work.
> 
> Thoughts?
> 
> Thanks for the info so far.


In the early days of testing 11-speed in the wild this is exactly what their testers did. Remove a cog from an 11-speed cassette and use an extra spacer behind the cassette.


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## rplace13 (Apr 27, 2011)

bikerjulio said:


> In the early days of testing 11-speed in the wild this is exactly what their testers did. Remove a cog from an 11-speed cassette and use an extra spacer behind the cassette.


Any idea what size spacer I'd need after taking one cog out?


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## ericm979 (Jun 26, 2005)

I misread the original question, not seeing the 11sp shifters. Yes 11sp shifters and 11sp cassette with a cog removed will work. The one drawback will be that if you remove a cog from the middle, the next larger cog's ramps wont' be in the right place. Shifting will be slightly degraded but won't be too bad. If you remove the 11t cog on a Shimano cassette you'll need a 12t lock ring that matches the serrations. Probably also true of Sram.

I'd start with two of the 1.8mm spacers for 10sp cassette on 11sp freehub.


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## ngl (Jan 22, 2002)

I believe you will need an 11 speed chain as well.


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## rplace13 (Apr 27, 2011)

Good point on the ramps. I guess what would make the most sense is buying an 11-XX cassette, removing the 11 to get a 12-xx. I have both an 11 and 12 tooth lock ring for my various R45 Chris King hubs.

So shifters, 11s cassette, spacers, 11s chain and I am good to go with SRAM 22 hydro disc crippled to 10 speed???


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## ericm979 (Jun 26, 2005)

Another option would be a Campy freehub and 11sp cassette. The spacing is close enough to Shimano/Sram 11sp that it works.

When I have made frankencassettes with a middle cog missing they have shifted ok, just not as well as Shimano intended.


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## rplace13 (Apr 27, 2011)

ericm979 said:


> Another option would be a Campy freehub and 11sp cassette. The spacing is close enough to Shimano/Sram 11sp that it works.
> 
> When I have made frankencassettes with a middle cog missing they have shifted ok, just not as well as Shimano intended.


The goal is to keep/use my fairly costly set of wheels with Chris King hubs as in my original post. Changing the CKing rear hub to 11s Campy is no small task cost wise. If I were going to do that I'd just coverts to 11s SRAM. Don't get me wrong I loves me some Campy have it on all my other bikes. This Gunnar disc bike is my only non-campy.


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## rplace13 (Apr 27, 2011)

Hey all....I'm bringing this back to life after quite some time of doing nothing. If I am correct in my recent assessment this might be one time it paid to procrastinate.

Quick recap. I have a 2X 10 speed mechanical disc brake bike (Gunnar Hyper-x). For some reason I can't really explain I just want a change and I want that change to be hydraulic disc brakes. I'd like to keep my Chris King rear hub. I'd like to keep my Red crank. 1X seems like a bonus just to have something different. Already have three 2x 11 speed bikes with rim brakes for any sort of road use. The bike in question is more commuter/gravel/fun/do all.

My new thinking is 1X11. I've not kept up with MTB stuff over the years so please tell me if/where I am wrong. Shimano has MTB 11s cassettes. Link below, the way I read it says, it will work with Force1.

SRAM 1x Drivetrains | Bicycling

So does this parts list seem like it will all work?
Chris King ISO Disc rear hub + Shimano MTB 11 speed cassette
SRAM Red Crank with single Force1 chain ring
Appropriate chain
Force1 rear derailleur
Force1 front/rear hydraulic shifters
Force1 hydro disc brake front and rear

Thanks!


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## rplace13 (Apr 27, 2011)

Closing the loop here in case any future searchers want a definitive answer. You all were a huge help initially, but not so much on my last query. 

At any rate, it is totally doable. You can keep you 10 speed hub and get 11 speed with shimano MTB cassette and SRAM 11 speed hydro shifters. 25 mile shake down cruise yesterday with 2.5K feet of climbing. I really dig the hydro Force brakes over the BB-7 road mechanical. The 40 on the rear cassette looks funny, but I'm sure I'll get used to it. Super fast shifting and dead quiet. I'm actually amazed how quiet it is.

Pretty happy with my 1X set up so far. 24.5 pounds as you see it below. Not bad for a steel bike with wooden fenders, cages, lights, disc brakes and a rack.


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