# just what cycling needs to clean up its image



## RichardT (Dec 12, 2010)

Barry Bonds, avid cyclist and cycling investor - Ann Killion


----------



## SpeedNeeder (Aug 19, 2013)

this made me LOL.


----------



## mmoose (Apr 2, 2004)

Someone posted a pic of him at the top (of Mt. Tam maybe). This was about a year ago. He was slimmed down well.

I'm not a fan of baseball. And there is "irony" here. But, he is taking care of himself, being healthy and even sponsoring a Womens team? good for him.


----------



## Local Hero (Jul 8, 2010)

I know a few of the women who have been riding with him. They say he's a good guy.


----------



## spade2you (May 12, 2009)

mmoose said:


> Someone posted a pic of him at the top (of Mt. Tam maybe). This was about a year ago. He was slimmed down well.
> 
> I'm not a fan of baseball. And there is "irony" here. But, he is taking care of himself, being healthy and even sponsoring a Womens team? good for him.


No, apparently BAD for him.


----------



## Rokh On (Oct 30, 2011)

huh? and all this time I thought it was a 6 month suspension and stripped


"Leipheimer, a former Lance Armstrong lieutenant who lives in Santa Rosa, was *banned* from cycling for drug involvement."


----------



## crit_boy (Aug 6, 2013)

I take issue with the author's statement that cycling is "the most drug-infested sport of all". 

I am not sure how one could accurately compare one sport with another - as each has its own drugs that are excluded (as well as "normal" hematocrit levels). But, anyone ever heard of body building and that Schwarzenegger guy who has said he never competed clean. I am not trying to say body building has more or less drug use than cycling. The author's statement is a bit simplistic.


----------



## nhluhr (Sep 9, 2010)

crit_boy said:


> *I take issue with the author's statement that cycling is "the most drug-infested sport of all". *
> 
> I am not sure how one could accurately compare one sport with another - as each has its own drugs that are excluded (as well as "normal" hematocrit levels). But, anyone ever heard of body building and that Schwarzenegger guy who has said he never competed clean. I am not trying to say body building has more or less drug use than cycling. The author's statement is a bit simplistic.


That rustled my jimmies as well. The only thing you could say for certain is that it's the most drug-tested sport of all.


----------



## atpjunkie (Mar 23, 2002)

if cycling regulations and dope checks were unleashed on major US Pro sports you'd have no leagues left


----------



## crit_boy (Aug 6, 2013)

atpjunkie said:


> if cycling regulations and dope checks were unleashed on major US Pro sports you'd have no leagues left


I like how putting creme containing cortisone on a saddle sore is illegal in cycling, but players can get cortisone shots during half time in the nfl. Cycling just needs to change the rules - then it is not cheating anymore.


----------



## dot (Mar 4, 2004)

There should be a WADA appointed nurse for saddle sores care at every stage race.


----------



## atpjunkie (Mar 23, 2002)

crit_boy said:


> I like how putting creme containing cortisone on a saddle sore is illegal in cycling, but players can get cortisone shots during half time in the nfl. Cycling just needs to change the rules - then it is not cheating anymore.


exactly. All cycling needs to do is set its rules and testing where the other pro sports are. Voila, clean as a whistle.


----------



## SpeedNeeder (Aug 19, 2013)

crit_boy said:


> I like how putting creme containing cortisone on a saddle sore is illegal in cycling, but players can get cortisone shots during half time in the nfl. Cycling just needs to change the rules - then it is not cheating anymore.


You may be on to something here.


----------



## jspharmd (May 24, 2006)

Local Hero said:


> I know a few of the women who have been riding with him. They say he's a good guy.


I guess it is all about perspective, because I know a guy that played wit him on the SF Giants and he said that Bonds was the biggest jerk he ever met. He also said the one thing that he will always remember about Bonds, was that he had the worst breath he ever experienced.


----------



## SystemShock (Jun 14, 2008)

jspharmd said:


> I guess it is all about perspective, because I know a guy that played wit him on the SF Giants and he said that Bonds was the biggest jerk he ever met. He also said the one thing that he will always remember about Bonds, was that he had the worst breath he ever experienced.


+1. Bonds was pretty well known in the clubhouse for being a d-bag. 

He's also punched teammates (Jeff Kent), and been punched by them (Andy Van Slyke). Kind of an ass, really.


----------



## Local Hero (Jul 8, 2010)

I can understand punching other guys and being a prick because of roid rage. But bad breath is inexcusable.


----------



## foto (Feb 7, 2005)

Glad somebody punched Jeff Kent.


----------



## deviousalex (Aug 18, 2010)

Rokh On said:


> huh? and all this time I thought it was a 6 month suspension and stripped
> 
> 
> "Leipheimer, a former Lance Armstrong lieutenant who lives in Santa Rosa, was *banned* from cycling for drug involvement."


A 6 month suspension is a ban. He was "force" retired because Omega Pharma Quickstep dropped him to hire Cavendish and no one else would take him. I agree that the article makes it seem like a life time ban.

I chatted with Levi for about 30 seconds at his gran fondo last year. He didn't strike me as the nicest guy. He seemed more concerned about his ride than the people who had paid to show up. Barry Bonds was riding that year too and wasn't very quick. I finished the 100 miler before he finished the 60. I know it's not a race or anything, but still for someone that has taken so many steroids.....


----------



## Local Hero (Jul 8, 2010)

deviousalex said:


> A 6 month suspension is a ban. He was "force" retired because Omega Pharma Quickstep dropped him to hire Cavendish and no one else would take him. I agree that the article makes it seem like a life time ban.
> 
> I chatted with Levi for about 30 seconds at his gran fondo last year. He didn't strike me as the nicest guy. He seemed more concerned about his ride than the people who had paid to show up. Barry Bonds was riding that year too and wasn't very quick. I finished the 100 miler before he finished the 60. I know it's not a race or anything, but still for someone that has taken so many steroids.....


All that muscle is heavy and hard to carry. Plus, a lot of that crap body builders and strength athletes take (like trenbolone) can actually hurt stamina. Testosterone can cause lots of weight gain and bloat if given at football player levels.


----------



## spade2you (May 12, 2009)

Local Hero said:


> All that muscle is heavy and hard to carry. Plus, a lot of that crap body builders and strength athletes take (like trenbolone) can actually hurt stamina. Testosterone can cause lots of weight gain and bloat if given at football player levels.


Football players don't dope.


----------



## thighmaster (Feb 2, 2006)

crit_boy said:


> I take issue with the author's statement that cycling is "the most drug-infested sport of all".
> 
> I am not sure how one could accurately compare one sport with another - as each has its own drugs that are excluded (as well as "normal" hematocrit levels). But, anyone ever heard of body building and that Schwarzenegger guy who has said he never competed clean. I am not trying to say body building has more or less drug use than cycling. The author's statement is a bit simplistic.


I have no problem with that statement. Not only is the pro ranks full, but so is the amatuer as well as recreational cyclists doped. Not all dopers go stellar when doping either. I can also agree because we have 90+% doped in all of sport. Even Stallone doped just to play a role of a doped boxer blah blah blah


----------



## jspharmd (May 24, 2006)

Local Hero said:


> I can understand punching other guys and being a prick because of roid rage. *But bad breath is inexcusable.*


Love it!!! It really had nothing to do with the thread, but it was his most distinguishing feature, at least to my friend anyway.


----------



## jspharmd (May 24, 2006)

Cycling is indeed the dirtiest sport. As others have stated, it is because they actually catch the dopers. The problem with cycling now is that not matter what happens, it will be viewed as dirty. The image is irreversibly tarnished. If people stop testing positive, they will be accused of using some yet-to-be-identified performance enhancer. If people keep testing positive, the sport continues to be dirty.


----------



## spade2you (May 12, 2009)

Wasn't it no big deal here when a Spanish judge ordered the destruction of Puerto evidence involving soccer players?


----------



## deviousalex (Aug 18, 2010)

spade2you said:


> Wasn't it no big deal here when a Spanish judge ordered the destruction of Puerto evidence involving soccer players?


If by 'here' you mean America yes because no one cares about soccer.


----------



## spade2you (May 12, 2009)

deviousalex said:


> If by 'here' you mean America yes because no one cares about soccer.


I meant here by RBR. I read an article and I think maybe 1-2 people brought it up, then nothing. Very peculiar how it was swept under the rug.


----------



## SystemShock (Jun 14, 2008)

Local Hero said:


> I can understand punching other guys and being a prick because of roid rage. But bad breath is inexcusable.


Well, only if you intend to french Barry.

I don't, but if you do, well... nttawwt.


----------



## den bakker (Nov 13, 2004)

spade2you said:


> I meant here by RBR. I read an article and I think maybe 1-2 people brought it up, then nothing. Very peculiar how it was swept under the rug.


on a cycling forum? weird.


----------



## spade2you (May 12, 2009)

den bakker said:


> on a cycling forum? weird.


Keeping in mind that Puerto involved a heck of a lot of athletes, including many cyclists.


----------



## den bakker (Nov 13, 2004)

spade2you said:


> Keeping in mind that Puerto involved a heck of a lot of athletes, including many cyclists.


so much wow


----------



## spade2you (May 12, 2009)

den bakker said:


> so much wow


Nice sarcasm. It must be difficult being better than the Americans here.


----------



## den bakker (Nov 13, 2004)

spade2you said:


> Nice sarcasm. It must be difficult being better than the Americans here.


want some cheese with the whine?


----------



## spade2you (May 12, 2009)

den bakker said:


> want some cheese with the whine?


Funny, I'd get a PM from a mod for much less.


----------



## SpeedNeeder (Aug 19, 2013)

spade2you said:


> Funny, I'd get a PM from a mod for much less.


Good! There's way too much senseless bickering on these forums. It's counter productive and devalues the usefulness of this site.


----------



## den bakker (Nov 13, 2004)

spade2you said:


> Funny, I'd get a PM from a mod for much less.


thanks for sharing. I'm sure you would and I really feel your pain. life is just so unfair. of course you have no clue what I have or have not gotten of PMs. 
but to recap. There's no doping in soccer (duhr huhr) because you don't think it has been discussed enough on a cycling discussion board, especially concerning a case from 2006. Is that about right?


----------



## spade2you (May 12, 2009)

SpeedNeeder said:


> Good! There's way too much senseless bickering on these forums. It's counter productive and devalues the usefulness of this site.


How is it good? Certain people spend their days baiting and get other people banned. 

Yet again, doping that doesn't involve Lance is simply low priority. Judge ordered destruction of Puerto evidene didn't even make a ripple.


----------



## SauronHimself (Nov 21, 2012)

den bakker said:


> so much wow





spade2you said:


> Nice sarcasm. It must be difficult being better than the Americans here.





den bakker said:


> want some cheese with the whine?





spade2you said:


> Funny, I'd get a PM from a mod for much less.


----------



## den bakker (Nov 13, 2004)

SauronHimself said:


>



[kair] 
noun
1.
a state of mind in which one is troubled; worry, anxiety, or concern: He was never free from care.
2.
a cause or object of worry, anxiety, concern, etc.: Their son has always been a great care to them.
3.
serious attention; solicitude; heed; caution: She devotes great care to her work.
4.
protection; charge: He is under the care of a doctor.
5.
temporary keeping, as for the benefit of or until claimed by the owner: He left his valuables in the care of friends. Address my mail in care of the American Embassy. 

verb (used without object), cared, car·ing.
7.
to be concerned or solicitous; have thought or regard.
8.
to be concerned or have a special preference (usually used in negative constructions): I don't care if I do.
9.
to make provision or look out (usually followed by for ): Will you care for the children while I am away?
10.
to have an inclination, liking, fondness, or affection (usually followed by for ): Would you care for dessert? I don't care for him very much.
verb (used with object), cared, car·ing.
11.
to feel concern about: He doesn't care what others say.
12.
to wish; desire; like: Would you care to dance?
Idioms
13.
couldn't care less, could not care less; be completely unconcerned: I couldn't care less whether she goes to the party or not. Also, could care less.
14.
take care,
a.
be alert; be careful: Take care that you don't fall on the ice!
b.
take care of yourself; goodbye: used as an expression of parting.
15.
take care of,
a.
to watch over; be responsible for: to take care of an invalid.
b.
to act on; deal with; attend to: to take care of paying a bill. 



how do you mean "cares"?


----------



## Local Hero (Jul 8, 2010)

spade2you said:


> Wasn't it no big deal here when a Spanish judge ordered the destruction of Puerto evidence involving soccer players?


We've gone over this several times. Of course that blood had to be destroyed. After such a long storage period NOBODY in their right mind would use it.


----------



## nayr497 (Nov 8, 2008)

atpjunkie said:


> if cycling regulations and dope checks were unleashed on major US Pro sports you'd have no leagues left


A pretty bold statement...but I think you are probably exactly right. I have tuned out all the major U.S. sports for various reasons (they're slow, they're boring, they're scripted, they're too corporate and fake). I can't even find any enthusiasm for the NCAA b-ball. Those guys are now playing nearly 40 games a year! Scholar-athletes my a**. I wish they'd take football and basketball off of college campuses, they're just semi-pro sports and so corrupt.

But anyway, yes, I would LOVE to see the NFL test as much as they do in cycling. And the MLB. I don't really care too much what fans of those sports think, as their following speaks volumes for me, but I do get annoyed with how badly cycling is portrayed.

Test football, baseball, basketball and heck, even Euro soccer. Then we'd really see which sport is the dirtiest.


----------



## spade2you (May 12, 2009)

Local Hero said:


> We've gone over this several times. Of course that blood had to be destroyed. After such a long storage period NOBODY in their right mind would use it.


IDK, perhaps Ricco might want dibs on it.


----------



## kps88 (Dec 3, 2013)

I know two former players. They both said he was the same way to the media as his teammates and most ball players. A horrible human being and that came from an extremely religious person that never says a bad word about anyone...except Bonds. Maybe he realized everyone hates him and its a lonely world that way. 



jspharmd said:


> I guess it is all about perspective, because I know a guy that played wit him on the SF Giants and he said that Bonds was the biggest jerk he ever met. He also said the one thing that he will always remember about Bonds, was that he had the worst breath he ever experienced.


----------



## atpjunkie (Mar 23, 2002)

spade2you said:


> Wasn't it no big deal here when a Spanish judge ordered the destruction of Puerto evidence involving soccer players?


tennis players, golfers....


----------



## ruckus (Apr 1, 2014)

The only way for Cycling and Olympics and professional sports to clean up their image is to just accept athletes will dope. It's a guarantee. It's also a guarantee they will be a step ahead of testing.

I don't see why people care. If you just allow it, it's a fair playing ground. The issue is about unfair advantage. Then just let everyone do it. Might as well since you know the best of the best are doping anyway.

*It's already been proven even if a drug guarantees death in 5 years, majority of Olympic athletes will take it if it guarantees a win. *Even in the face of guaranteed death, they will take this enhancement if it will let them win.

They should just allow it and allow doctors to monitor it. Let the athletes know of the risks and let them decide. No one has died from EPO or Steroids. We believe they may lead to complications in the kidney, liver and heart, and raise cholesterol level (triple, double bypass serious). But that should be their choice to make.

If an athlete chooses not to take enhancements even though rest of his competitors are, then that's a another choice. If you can compete without it, good for you. But if you truly want to be at the top level, then dope. Being at the best of the world will require sacrifices and that includes your body, your principles etc.

That's how I see it. There will ALWAYS be doping, Dopers will continue to win and we will always find the elite we thought were clean, years later through retesting with advanced methods or confessions years later they were doping. *People forget, no matter what the athlete says, this is a person who is willing to do anything and everything to win.*


----------



## SpeedNeeder (Aug 19, 2013)

ruckus said:


> I don't see why people care. If you just allow it, it's a fair playing ground. The issue is about unfair advantage. Then just let everyone do it. Might as well since you know the best of the best are doping anyway.


I think I disagree with every sentence you wrote. The issue is not single fold. Yes there is an issue with fair competition, but to me sport is about competing to the best of your ability, not the best ability drugs can give you. The issue is also the athletes health - watching a bicycle race you shouldn't be left wondering if the winner will die the next day from the drugs he used - this is moral issue, not just a sports issue. Why should I have to choose to use drugs to compete at the highest levels of competition? This is fundamentally unfair. 
I hate the argument that if so-and-so can get away with it, everyone should!
If this was true in society, everything would degenerate to chaos.


----------



## den bakker (Nov 13, 2004)

ruckus said:


> They should just allow it and allow doctors to monitor it. Let the athletes know of the risks and let them decide. No one has died from EPO or Steroids.


don't tell us. tell e.g. the belgian and swedish mothers loosing their sons in the early 90s due to "mysterious causes".


----------



## thighmaster (Feb 2, 2006)

den bakker said:


> don't tell us. tell e.g. the belgian and swedish mothers loosing their sons in the early 90s due to "mysterious causes".


The 90's, they are dropping right now, and steroids are the deadliest of them all, even claiming The Ultimate Warrior. This is typical millenialist emotion vs. fact BS, where they can't see past how they feel so it must be right.


----------



## jspharmd (May 24, 2006)

ruckus said:


> *No one has died from EPO or Steroids.* We believe they may lead to complications in the kidney, liver and heart, and raise cholesterol level (triple, double bypass serious). But that should be their choice to make.


You are wrong. Sorry, just wrong. People have died from steroids. 25 years old, died from heart failure and kidney failure secondary to steroids. He started when he was 17 years old and never stopped until he found out he had heart and kidney failure. I bet his family would disagree with your thoughts on this. I know he changed his mind about the dangers after he realized the consequence. 

If you are talking about young athletes, they don't yet have the capability to fathom the consequences of their actions. That is why you don't level the playing field with drugs.


----------



## deviousalex (Aug 18, 2010)

ruckus said:


> The only way for Cycling and Olympics and professional sports to clean up their image is to just accept athletes will dope.


And what about races where there are pros and amateurs? My Cat 1/2 team mates regularly race against pros, some of the teams who appear in races like the Tour of California. They can't afford to pay for the doping. If they were going up against people that they knew for a few fact were roided and EPO'ed up I bet they would quit.



> I don't see why people care. If you just allow it, it's a fair playing ground. The issue is about unfair advantage.


No, it becomes an issue of who has the better team doctors, technology, etc. If I wanted to see the height of human engineering achievement I'd be watching Formula 1 instead. In addition different people react differently to PEDs. Lance for example reacted extremely well to EPO.



> No one has died from EPO or Steroids. We believe they may lead to complications in the kidney, liver and heart, and raise cholesterol level (triple, double bypass serious). But that should be their choice to make.


Not only does this statement totally contradict itself but the first half is completely untrue. Having such a high concentration of red blood cells from EPO can lead to a stroke. Steroids (as you mentioned) have many other problems.


So if we let pros dope why not amateurs? In sports like cycling the line between pro and amateur is a grey one. There are full time job pros, pros who have other jobs to support themselves, and amateurs who are competing against pros. If I show up to race registration and everyone is in the parking lot shooting themselves up instead of warming up I'd quite cycling. Waking up at 5AM to drive 4 hours for a 3 hour race is bad enough.


----------



## spade2you (May 12, 2009)

jspharmd said:


> You are wrong. Sorry, just wrong. People have died from steroids. 25 years old, died from heart failure and kidney failure secondary to steroids. He started when he was 17 years old and never stopped until he found out he had heart and kidney failure. I bet his family would disagree with your thoughts on this. I know he changed his mind about the dangers after he realized the consequence.
> 
> If you are talking about young athletes, they don't yet have the capability to fathom the consequences of their actions. That is why you don't level the playing field with drugs.


Gigantic +1, even though I am not a real pharmacist. If EPO, transfusions, and steroids were safe, there wouldn't be a ban.


----------



## deviousalex (Aug 18, 2010)

spade2you said:


> Gigantic +1, even though I am not a real pharmacist. If EPO, transfusions, and steroids were safe, there wouldn't be a ban.


Prohibited List | U.S. Anti-Doping Agency (USADA)



> So how does a substance or method make its way onto the WADA Prohibited List?
> 
> Typically, a substance or method will be considered for the WADA Prohibited List if the substance or method meets any two of the following three criteria:
> 
> ...


It doesn't have to be bad for you to be banned.


----------



## ruckus (Apr 1, 2014)

Regardless of what anyone thinks about PEDs and what rules there are. They are using it. Elite athletes don't care if it's going to kill them if it's going to let them win the TdF. Just let them do it. 

Cycling would be a whole lot more fun to let athletes make the decisions and go with it. All this drama over who is doping and who isn't, who got banned and who got away with it, whining about cycling being dirty and officials and UCI being corrupt is just moronic. Especially when dopers will continue to get away with it and win. Contador is a big example. And I wouldn't rule out Froume. He claims he's clean, Sky claims he is, and everyone rejoicing a clean cyclist won TdF. Yeah, I expect in 5-10 years we'll all be shocked to learn he was doping.

So let them do it. Stop the whining. Stop allocating so much resource for anti-doping regulations and testing. If you want to see clean sport, then just watch Iron Man, supposedly that's clean since that's not related to money, like it is in other professional sports. If you care about clean sports, then watch amateaur events that aren't infested with endorsements, agents and prize money etc. So that would include college sports, those would be PED filled, those students will do what it takes to get into the NBA etc.


----------



## spade2you (May 12, 2009)

deviousalex said:


> Prohibited List | U.S. Anti-Doping Agency (USADA)
> 
> It doesn't have to be bad for you to be banned.


The rules are vague. Fortunately, the big ones are also risky and unsafe.


----------



## SpeedNeeder (Aug 19, 2013)

ruckus said:


> Regardless of what anyone thinks about PEDs and what rules there are. They are using it. Elite athletes don't care if it's going to kill them if it's going to let them win the TdF. Just let them do it.
> 
> Cycling would be a whole lot more fun to let athletes make the decisions and go with it. All this drama over who is doping and who isn't, who got banned and who got away with it, whining about cycling being dirty and officials and UCI being corrupt is just moronic. Especially when dopers will continue to get away with it and win. Contador is a big example. And I wouldn't rule out Froume. He claims he's clean, Sky claims he is, and everyone rejoicing a clean cyclist won TdF. Yeah, I expect in 5-10 years we'll all be shocked to learn he was doping.
> 
> So let them do it. Stop the whining. Stop allocating so much resource for anti-doping regulations and testing. If you want to see clean sport, then just watch Iron Man, supposedly that's clean since that's not related to money, like it is in other professional sports. If you care about clean sports, then watch amateaur events that aren't infested with endorsements, agents and prize money etc. So that would include college sports, those would be PED filled, those students will do what it takes to get into the NBA etc.


Nonsense.


----------



## thighmaster (Feb 2, 2006)

I draw the line at doping, I bet you draw the line at banking. Many cheat and steal and some really enjoy it and even try to make a living at it. We should make it leagal and safe for someone to rob a bank, after all--everyone steals, so we should stop whinning and allocating resources....


----------



## ruckus (Apr 1, 2014)

Delete me. No point arguing over something as stupid as entertainers doping that has zero impact on any of our lives. I shouldn't even care to reply.


----------



## Local Hero (Jul 8, 2010)

ruckus said:


> Delete me. No point arguing over something as stupid as entertainers doping that has zero impact on any of our lives. I shouldn't even care to reply.


No! Don't you die on me...we've come too far for you to give up now! There's so much left to live for!


----------



## SystemShock (Jun 14, 2008)

*CheatStrong Bracelet | Yellow Bracelet | Armstrong Bracelet | The Onion Store*


----------



## SystemShock (Jun 14, 2008)

*Lance Armstrong Admits To Using Performance-Enhancing Drugs To Show Remorse | The Onion - America's Finest News Source*


----------

