# Whatever happened to Schwinn?



## SlimDandy (May 28, 2011)

It appears as though the Old Schwinn Tradition is finally gone forever. There once was a time when an American bicycle customer would exclaim quite proudly, that they were going to buy a Schwinn. Buying a Schwinn automatically meant purchasing guaranteed quality in a bicycle.
If it wasn't a Schwinn, it was immediately suspect.

Now days, if you've purchased a Schwinn, folks assume the worse, raise their eyebrows, and hope that you'll see better days.

Whatever happened to Schwinn?


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## BernyMac (Jul 13, 2010)

They are in Wal-mart. You can see the name Schwinn on the jerseys, shorts and other cycling accessories in Wal-mart and Target. Globalization and lots of other things, happened to Schwinn. It happens...evolve or die.


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## Scooper (Mar 4, 2007)

The family owned Schwinn Bicycle Company founded by Ignaz Schwinn in 1895 that you fondly remember went bankrupt in November, 1992, The reasons for the bankruptcy are documented in the well researched and well written book, _No Hands; The Rise and Fall of the Schwinn Bicycle Company, an American Institution_, by Judith Crown and Glenn Coleman.

After the bankruptcy, the assets were bought from the bankruptcy court in early 1993 by Zell/Chilmark and Scott Sports, In 2004, the company again went bankrupt and was purchased by Dorel Industries of Montreal. Today, Schwinn is brand of Dorel Industries and most of their products are imported from the far east. There are two distinct lines of Schwinn products: the low end line is sold by large retail department stores like Target and Wal-Mart, while a higher quality product line is sold through bicycle shops.

Richard Schwinn, son of Ed Schwinn Sr, who was the son of Frank W. Schwinn, who was the son of Ignaz, is a partner in Waterford Precision Cycles which bought the old Schwinn Paramount Design Group (PDG) facility in Waterford, WI from the bankruptcy court in 1993. Richard's partner in the business is Marc Muller, who ran PDG from 1980 until the bankruptcy.


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## brucew (Jun 3, 2006)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Schwinn_Bicycle_Company

http://www.re-cycle.com/History/Schwinn.aspx


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## tihsepa (Nov 27, 2008)

The start of their downfall was the workers trying to unionize. Unions kill businesses.


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## SlimDandy (May 28, 2011)

BernyMac said:


> They are in Wal-mart. You can see the name Schwinn on the jerseys, shorts and other cycling accessories in Wal-mart and Target. Globalization and lots of other things, happened to Schwinn. It happens...evolve or die.


 Yes! Yes! I know___! That's why I cry today! :cryin:


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## SlimDandy (May 28, 2011)

Scooper said:


> The family owned Schwinn Bicycle Company founded by Ignaz Schwinn in 1895 that you fondly remember went bankrupt in November, 1992, The reasons for the bankruptcy are documented in the well researched and well written book, _No Hands; The Rise and Fall of the Schwinn Bicycle Company, an American Institution_, by Judith Crown and Glenn Coleman.
> 
> After the bankruptcy, the assets were bought from the bankruptcy court in early 1993 by Zell/Chilmark and Scott Sports, In 2004, the company again went bankrupt and was purchased by Dorel Industries of Montreal. Today, Schwinn is brand of Dorel Industries and most of their products are imported from the far east. There are two distinct lines of Schwinn products: the low end line is sold by large retail department stores like Target and Wal-Mart, while a higher quality product line is sold through bicycle shops.
> 
> Richard Schwinn, son of Ed Schwinn Sr, who was the son of Frank W. Schwinn, who was the son of Ignaz, is a partner in Waterford Precision Cycles which bought the old Schwinn Paramount Design Group (PDG) facility in Waterford, WI from the bankruptcy court in 1993. Richard's partner in the business is Marc Muller, who ran PDG from 1980 until the bankruptcy.



I know Scoop. It was really a rhetorical question.

Thanks for your contribution :thumbsup:


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## Italianrider76 (May 13, 2005)

tihsepa said:


> The start of their downfall was the workers trying to unionize. Unions kill businesses.


Yeah man....and workers in China enjoy a quality of life we in the west can only dream of.


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## tihsepa (Nov 27, 2008)

They may need unions but, unions here are the reason those business are gone. We have laws now,we dont need unions. Sorry, all they do now is protect the turds.


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## tihsepa (Nov 27, 2008)

I enjoy my asian carbon frame made in a sweatshop and sold here at a reasonable price. 

I amin the service industry. Lets see them ship a repair job overseas.


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## SlimDandy (May 28, 2011)

tihsepa said:


> The start of their downfall was the workers trying to unionize. Unions kill businesses.


 I don't know... Sometimes there are elements of greed and insanity that envelope the entrepreneurial spirits of mankind and turns them into egotiscal, selfish, monsterous bastards. They become so consumed with profits, that they literally ignore the plight of their workers and ruin the lives of the very people that they're dependent upon for production. 

Unions can potentially be good. They can also be just as corrupt and ruthless as people that they are charged to keep in check. 

I'm afraid that enterpreneurs, manufacturers, businesses, and unions are all dependent upon the laws that were initially intended to protect us all. Unfortunately, those laws are only as enforcible as the lawyers, courts, and judges will allow them to be. Money has a way of either diluting or concentrating the law matrix.

Cheers! :thumbsup:


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## laffeaux (Dec 12, 2001)

SlimDandy said:


> Buying a Schwinn automatically meant purchasing guaranteed quality in a bicycle.


Having once been the proud owner of a 1970's Schwinn Varsity I can tell you that the Schwinn badge did not guarantee quality.  But for a teenager, it was pretty much indestructible.


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## SlimDandy (May 28, 2011)

brucew said:


> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Schwinn_Bicycle_Company
> 
> http://www.re-cycle.com/History/Schwinn.aspx



Thanks for the links, Bruce! :thumbsup:


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## george kraushaar (Jan 15, 2007)

I'll agree that unions can be self centered and really muck up things. But without unions businesses can suck the life out of workers in a heartbeat. I work part time for a company where I have no benefits; no vacation, no health insurance, no paid holidays, nothing. They use me. I use them. There's no loyalty on either side. Modern business in the modern age.


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## Richard (Feb 17, 2006)

This might wind up in "Politics Only", but if you like a 40 hour work week, if you like paid overtime, if you like paid vacation and sick time, if you like a safe workplace, if you like equal pay for equal work (not really there yet), if you like child labor laws, etc., thank a union.

I'll agree that many unions became as corrupt as the entities they were fighting, but the average working person would be a heck of a lot worse off without them.


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## SystemShock (Jun 14, 2008)

Reading up on Schwinn's history in the Wikipedia article (thx for the link), seems like Schwinn's mgmt made a whole series of tactical errors over a prolonged period of time. Not sure how one can lay Schwinn's demise wholly or mostly at the feet of the union.
.


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## terbennett (Apr 1, 2006)

SlimDandy said:


> It appears as though the Old Schwinn Tradition is finally gone forever. There once was a time when an American bicycle customer would exclaim quite proudly, that they were going to buy a Schwinn. Buying a Schwinn automatically meant purchasing guaranteed quality in a bicycle.
> If it wasn't a Schwinn, it was immediately suspect.
> 
> Now days, if you've purchased a Schwinn, folks assume the worse, raise their eyebrows, and hope that you'll see better days.
> ...


Outsid eof their Paramount Series and a couple of other higher end models with the Schwinn badge, Schwinn has been crap since the 70's. Your idea of Schwinn was the pre 70's models. Heck the decline even started in the mid 60's for Schwinn. They could've learned a lot from Specialized old motto "Innovate or Die." Schwinn didn't innovate but wanted to charge a mint for their name. They actually went bankrupt like 20 years ago. Those that actually knew bikes avoided buying a Schwinns in the 80's. I used to race on Paramounts back in the 80's. While Paramounts were a different breed than your average Schwinn, there were many who gawked at the fact our team was riding Paramounts. Schwinn is now a name added to high and low end bikes made in Asia. Want a good new Schwinn? Look for the Fastback Series or the Paramount Series. Those aren't Walmart brand bikes and they are good. Want an American made custom bike with the Schwinn pedigree behind it? Look no further than Waterford. It will cost you a mint but those are the people that used to build for the Paramount racing division. When Schwinn went under, they started Waterford.


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## Kontact (Apr 1, 2011)

tihsepa said:


> I enjoy my asian carbon frame made in a sweatshop and sold here at a reasonable price.
> 
> I amin the service industry. Lets see them ship a repair job overseas.


Let's see a country's economy survive on all service industry jobs. If no one actually produces a product from their labor, there is no new capital entering the economy. The snake eats itself, then dies.

If the majority of Schwinn employees felt a union was necessary, then there was a problem with Schwinn that the unions didn't cause.


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## SlimDandy (May 28, 2011)

terbennett said:


> Outsid eof their Paramount Series and a couple of other higher end models with the Schwinn badge, Schwinn has been crap since the 70's. Your idea of Schwinn was the pre 70's models. Heck the decline even started in the mid 60's for Schwinn. They could've learned a lot from Specialized old motto "Innovate or Die." Schwinn didn't innovate but wanted to charge a mint for their name. They actually went bankrupt like 20 years ago. Those that actually knew bikes avoided buying a Schwinns in the 80's. I used to race on Paramounts back in the 80's. While Paramounts were a different breed than your average Schwinn, there were many who gawked at the fact our team was riding Paramounts. Schwinn is now a name added to high and low end bikes made in Asia. Want a good new Schwinn? Look for the Fastback Series or the Paramount Series. Those aren't Walmart brand bikes and they are good. Want an American made custom bike with the Schwinn pedigree behind it? Look no further than Waterford. It will cost you a mint but those are the people that used to build for the Paramount racing division. When Schwinn went under, they started Waterford.


 Hey there friend,

All I remember, is that as a kid, everyone wanted a Schwinn bicycle. Of course we grew older and began craving for the imported english racer type bikes and lost our taste for Schwinn. However, one should never forget that the Schwinn name, at one time in America, use to mean absolute quality in some bicycle circles, whether it was true or not.

Cheers! :thumbsup:


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## Kontact (Apr 1, 2011)

SlimDandy said:


> Hey there friend,
> 
> All I remember, is that as a kid, everyone wanted a Schwinn bicycle. Of course we grew older and began craving for the imported english racer type bikes and lost our taste for Schwinn. However, one should never forget that the Schwinn name, at one time in America, use to mean absolute quality in some bicycle circles, whether it was true or not.
> 
> Cheers! :thumbsup:


Yeah, Pontiac had the same kind of rep, once upon a time. And probably just as deserved.


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## foggypeake (Sep 11, 2005)

Yeah, unions have done nothing for us.


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## terbennett (Apr 1, 2006)

tihsepa said:


> They may need unions but, unions here are the reason those business are gone. We have laws now,we dont need unions. Sorry, all they do now is protect the turds.


+1.....:thumbsup:


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## terbennett (Apr 1, 2006)

Italianrider76 said:


> Yeah man....and workers in China enjoy a quality of life we in the west can only dream of.


We can be as sarcastic as we want but the average worker in China puts away 40% of their income into savings. Sounds like the cost of living is very low too. Not only that, they are asking for raises and getting them. Ever try operating a business here in the States? Here in California, Worker's Comp Insurance is so high, alot of small businesses went under when the new costs went into affect. We can say big businesses are bad but they are the ones that want regulation. Heavy regulatons destry small businesses- big businesses just move their operations to avoid it. Maybe the problem is that you're looking at life from your perspective. I doubt the average worker in China has put themselves in debt to the point that they can't pay their bills. Serious, the Chinese worker makes enough to put away 40% of their income and still have live comfortably. I couldn't do that. I have bills to pay.


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## Opus51569 (Jul 21, 2009)

I recently purchased the 2010 Le Tour Legacy. A little heavy (even for steel) but so far I'm happy with it.


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## terbennett (Apr 1, 2006)

george kraushaar said:


> I'll agree that unions can be self centered and really muck up things. But without unions businesses can suck the life out of workers in a heartbeat. I work part time for a company where I have no benefits; no vacation, no health insurance, no paid holidays, nothing. They use me. I use them. There's no loyalty on either side. Modern business in the modern age.


With the tougher labor laws introduced in the last 75 years here in the US, unions are pretty much redundant. They suck the life out of the workers. It's not that the average worker is underpaid; the union worker is overpaid. The sad part is that due to union jobs, costs are higher; making it harder to live as a non-union worker since those increased paychecks equal higher costs for everything else. Government alone has the highest number of union jobs. Go to the port in San Pedro, California- where most of the stuff imported here comes through. The average lift driver is making over $200,000 a year to move a box off of a stack of boxes and placing it on a skelton tractor-trailer frame. There's an example of what labor unions have done to our government. The benefit are good and they pay is good for most union jobs but they always want more. You work part-time for a company. By law, if you work under 32 hours, the company doesn't have to offer insurance. Sounds fair, Some companies will offer it though. My wife works for Disneyland and even part-timers can opt for insurance benefits. Insurance is expensive no matter where you go and it makes no sense to spend most of your money on it on part-time wages. Most of the PT workers don't opt for it because of this.


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## terbennett (Apr 1, 2006)

Richard said:


> This might wind up in "Politics Only", but if you like a 40 hour work week, if you like paid overtime, if you like paid vacation and sick time, if you like a safe workplace, if you like equal pay for equal work (not really there yet), if you like child labor laws, etc., thank a union.
> 
> I'll agree that many unions became as corrupt as the entities they were fighting, but the average working person would be a heck of a lot worse off without them.


I can thank a union for what they've done throughout the years to protect the workplace but not that the laws are in place, they are no longer needed. Now they are just extortionists.


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## chas0039 (Jun 26, 2007)

If you go to the Waterford web site, they have a huge set of scans from the Schwinn catalogs going back 1895 then through 2000. 

When I wanted a Schwinn, I bought a Waterford; no regrets, I wish I had done so sooner.

This Schwinn from 2005 would have been fun to own, not ride though as my days of pumping 20+ lb bikes are over.

We are talking about Schwinn, not unions, right?


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## Scooper (Mar 4, 2007)

IMHO, the labor problem at Schwinn's Chicago factory was that the union chosen to represent the workers was the UAW, which had been losing membership and power and needed to show it was still relevant by making Schwinn a UAW shop and using hardball tactics in negotiating with management. The UAW negotiated with Schwinn as if it were GM, Ford, or Chrysler, not a 2,000 employee bicycle manufacturer struggling to survive as it competed with imported bikes made with cheap labor. Schwinn simply couldn't afford to make the concessions the UAW wanted and remain solvent, so the company moved production to Greenville, MS, which was more management friendly. One significant problem with moving production to Greenville was that Schwinn management had failed to understand the logistics of getting raw materials and components to Greenville and getting finished product out of Greenville. Also, managing the labor force in Greenville to produce quality product efficiently was more of a challenge than initially anticipated.


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## SlimDandy (May 28, 2011)

Scooper said:


> IMHO, the labor problem at Schwinn's Chicago factory was that the union chosen to represent the workers was the UAW, which had been losing membership and power and needed to show it was still relevant by making Schwinn a UAW shop and using hardball tactics in negotiating with management. The UAW negotiated with Schwinn as if it were GM, Ford, or Chrysler, not a 2,000 employee bicycle manufacturer struggling to survive as it competed with imported bikes made with cheap labor. Schwinn simply couldn't afford to make the concessions the UAW wanted and remain solvent, so the company moved production to Greenville, MS, which was more management friendly. One significant problem with moving production to Greenville was that Schwinn management had failed to understand the logistics of getting raw materials and components to Greenville and getting finished product out of Greenville. Also, managing the labor force in Greenville to produce quality product efficiently was more of a challenge than initially anticipated.


 You're a real quality kind of guy, Scoop! :thumbsup:

Thank you for your contribution...


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## DaveG (Feb 4, 2004)

*good points, but...*



terbennett said:


> We can be as sarcastic as we want but the average worker in China puts away 40% of their income into savings. Sounds like the cost of living is very low too. Not only that, they are asking for raises and getting them. Ever try operating a business here in the States? Here in California, Worker's Comp Insurance is so high, alot of small businesses went under when the new costs went into affect. We can say big businesses are bad but they are the ones that want regulation. Heavy regulatons destry small businesses- big businesses just move their operations to avoid it. Maybe the problem is that you're looking at life from your perspective. I doubt the average worker in China has put themselves in debt to the point that they can't pay their bills. Serious, the Chinese worker makes enough to put away 40% of their income and still have live comfortably. I couldn't do that. I have bills to pay.



I agree with many of your points. However, I wonder if the 40% savings rate in China is more of a cultural differences that one of salary. I would suspect that the average Chinese lives more frugally then most Americans and might consider many of the things we consider essential as luxuries (TV in every room, electronic gadgets, fancy car, etc) Plus they are probably not paying $100,000+ to send their kids to college, nor the medical costs we face. If someone has better knowledge of this I would be interested in your take


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## chas0039 (Jun 26, 2007)

The sources I have read say that a significant amount of the US inflation post-war (WWII) was due to the union demands for wages and benefits. These costs were passed on to the consumer who came to expect inflation as a part of life. Eventually, the countries where the war took place came back into production and began to export. Overseas labor and related costs being much lower and more in line with the real value, the US eventually lost a huge amount of union labor as business went overseas and de-unionized.

Big unions are still left in government and public education. I read that the next big government bail-out (read taxpayer) could well be the US Post Office where labor and related costs are 80% of the overall budget. The average postal worker currently makes $41 per hour and pays less than private or other government workers for their benefits.

We have come to pay a significant price premium for our standard of living.

Since you asked, sorry I'm off subject, but I guess not too much as this is, in part, what happened to Schwinn..... and the US auto industry and the US steel industry and the US electronics industry and the US garment industry. But I digress.


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## tihsepa (Nov 27, 2008)

Like i said. Protect the turds.


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## SystemShock (Jun 14, 2008)

tihsepa said:


> Like i said. Protect the turds.


Yeah... kinda like how Boards of Directors protect their overpaid CEO friends by okaying multi-million dollar 'golden parachute' severance packages, which they still receive even if they drive the company into the ground. :idea:

There's certainly plenty of blame to go 'round.

But getting back to the subject, seems like Schwinn's demise occurred from a combination of not selling the products customers really wanted (staring in the '70s), not innovating or investing in equipment, and globalization/cheap foreign competition. 
.


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## Elfstone (Jun 27, 2006)

Yeah man....and workers in China enjoy a quality of life we in the west can only dream of. [/QUOTE]

*^^^^^^^^^*


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## Elfstone (Jun 27, 2006)

Italianrider76 said:


> Yeah man....and workers in China enjoy a quality of life we in the west can only dream of.


*^^^^^^^^^*


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## raymonda (Jan 31, 2007)

terbennett said:


> Outsid eof their Paramount Series and a couple of other higher end models with the Schwinn badge, Schwinn has been crap since the 70's. Your idea of Schwinn was the pre 70's models. Heck the decline even started in the mid 60's for Schwinn. They could've learned a lot from Specialized old motto "Innovate or Die." Schwinn didn't innovate but wanted to charge a mint for their name. They actually went bankrupt like 20 years ago. Those that actually knew bikes avoided buying a Schwinns in the 80's. I used to race on Paramounts back in the 80's. While Paramounts were a different breed than your average Schwinn, there were many who gawked at the fact our team was riding Paramounts. Schwinn is now a name added to high and low end bikes made in Asia. Want a good new Schwinn? Look for the Fastback Series or the Paramount Series. Those aren't Walmart brand bikes and they are good. Want an American made custom bike with the Schwinn pedigree behind it? Look no further than Waterford. It will cost you a mint but those are the people that used to build for the Paramount racing division. When Schwinn went under, they started Waterford.


You are very much wrong about Schwinn's ability to put out a nice road bike. During the 80's they made some of the nicest mass produced frames available and used Columbus SL/SP and SLX and Tange Prestige tubing. When they sent them over seas for production they went to Panasonic, who at the time made some of the nicest steel frames available. Many of these frames still bring a good dollar on the use market and are much sought after.

Also, during the later 90's through the earlier 2000's they made several models with Reyonlds 853 tubing and these are very nice, too. 

Anyway, here are some shots of my 1988 Prologue.


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## SlimDandy (May 28, 2011)

raymonda said:


> You are very much wrong about Schwinn's ability to put out a nice road bike. During the 80's they made some of the nicest mass produced frames available and used Columbus SL/SP and SLX and Tange Prestige tubing. When they sent them over seas for production they went to Panasonic, who at the time made some of the nicest steel frames available. Many of these frames still bring a good dollar on the use market and are much sought after.
> 
> Also, during the later 90's through the earlier 2000's they made several models with Reyonlds 853 tubing and these are very nice, too.
> 
> Anyway, here are some shots of my 1988 Prologue.


 * Wow, Raymonda!

She's Absolutely Beautiful!

I Thank You for Your Wonderful Contribution* :thumbsup:


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## SlimDandy (May 28, 2011)

chas0039 said:


> If you go to the Waterford web site, they have a huge set of scans from the Schwinn catalogs going back 1895 then through 2000.
> 
> When I wanted a Schwinn, I bought a Waterford; no regrets, I wish I had done so sooner.
> 
> ...


 That Schwinn in the picture, looks exactly like my old bike...

Hey! Where'd ju get dat at?


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## Lotophage (Feb 19, 2011)

Meh. What happened to schwinn?

One, they thought mountain bikes were going to be an overnight fad. They were late getting into MTBs and what they had wasn't all that great.

Two, they were burdened with their name. You may have fond memories of the high end schwinns, but for most of us, schwinn meant varsity. Heavy, crappy gears, steel wheels and brakes that didn't work... 

Three, there was the dealer network. And the schwinn-specific sized parts. The dealers were (at least in my experience) awful. I remember in grade school going to get a bike with my mom. The schwinn shop was nothing compared to the Bike Line just down the street- better selection, staff that actually cared about fitting me to a bike properly...

Schwinn pretty much drove themselves out of business.


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## SlimDandy (May 28, 2011)

Lotophage said:


> Meh. What happened to schwinn?
> 
> One, they thought mountain bikes were going to be an overnight fad. They were late getting into MTBs and what they had wasn't all that great.
> 
> ...


 Well there certainly is some merit in your thoughts, Sir. However, I remember when a bike being heavy was a plus, not a minus. 
I also remember when a Schwinn bicycle was very highly regarded and every kid on the block, wanted a Schwinn and nothing else would do.

Cheers! :thumbsup:


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## onespeedbiker (May 28, 2007)

chas0039 said:


> The sources I have read say that a significant amount of the US inflation post-war (WWII) was due to the union demands for wages and benefits. These costs were passed on to the consumer who came to expect inflation as a part of life. Eventually, the countries where the war took place came back into production and began to export. Overseas labor and related costs being much lower and more in line with the real value, the US eventually lost a huge amount of union labor as business went overseas and de-unionized.
> 
> Big unions are still left in government and public education. I read that the next big government bail-out (read taxpayer) could well be the US Post Office where labor and related costs are 80% of the overall budget. The average postal worker currently makes $41 per hour and pays less than private or other government workers for their benefits.
> 
> ...


Based on your graph of Union membership, it appears unions have been on a slow downward trend since the 1950 (certainly before union labor went overseas). Lets not forget that up until this year the US was the largest industrial producer in the world and is still a close second to China (BTW the size of the middle class in China is 15% of the population or 197 million workers; in the US it's 91%. So there is still a lot off have-not cheap labor in China). The slow decline of unions into oblivion in the private sector was the eventual result of "employee centered management" (ECM). When employees were viewed as replaceable cogs, unions had social value. However once the advantages of ECM become apparent (pioneered by Henry Ford) private sector unions became redundant and a huge impediment, managing to keep a fragile hold through political graft. Seeing the writing on the wall, unions migrated to the public sector, were the concept of labor and management is often blurred and there is also a lack of traditional adversarial relationships. Collective bargaining in the public sector has been disastrous to State and local governments (it does not exist for federal employees) and while there will be a lot of kicking and screaming, the days of unions in the public sector are numbered. The only logical exception would be collective bargaining without the right to strike. This is the case with police and fire and no one can claim they have been shorted. 

Oh BTW, I have a 1999 Schwinn Peleton that I rode the heck out of and rode my fastest century on (The 2000 Solvang Century; 5 hours 22minutes). What's not to like about this bike? 853 steel, beautiful S bent stays and a classic paint job. A while later I rebuilt the bike with a compact crank, Nitto stem and carbon fork. Check out my blog on this matter. <a href="http://onespeedbiker.blogspot.com/2008_05_01_archive.html">My 1999 Schwinn Peleton</a>


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## SlimDandy (May 28, 2011)

onespeedbiker said:


> Based on your graph of Union membership, it appears unions have been on a slow downward trend since the 1950 (certainly before union labor went overseas). Lets not forget that up until this year the US was the largest industrial producer in the world and is still a close second to China (BTW the size of the middle class in China is 15% of the population or 197 million workers; in the US it's 91%. So there is still a lot off have-not cheap labor in China). The slow decline of unions into oblivion in the private sector was the eventual result of "employee centered management" (ECM). When employees were viewed as replaceable cogs, unions had social value. However once the advantages of ECM become apparent (pioneered by Henry Ford) private sector unions became redundant and a huge impediment, managing to keep a fragile hold through political graft. Seeing the writing on the wall, unions migrated to the public sector, were the concept of labor and management is often blurred and there is also a lack of traditional adversarial relationships. Collective bargaining in the public sector has been disastrous to State and local governments (it does not exist for federal employees) and while there will be a lot of kicking and screaming, the days of unions in the public sector are numbered. The only logical exception would be collective bargaining without the right to strike. This is the case with police and fire and no one can claim they have been shorted.
> 
> Oh BTW, I have a 1999 Schwinn Peleton that I rode the heck out of and rode my fastest century on (The 2000 Solvang Century; 5 hours 22minutes). What's not to like about this bike? 853 steel, beautiful S bent stays and a classic paint job. A while later I rebuilt the bike with a compact crank, Nitto stem and carbon fork. Check out my blog on this matter. <a href="http://onespeedbiker.blogspot.com/2008_05_01_archive.html">My 1999 Schwinn Peleton</a>


* What A Nice Looking Bike!!! *:thumbsup:


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## chas0039 (Jun 26, 2007)

SlimDandy said:


> That Schwinn in the picture, looks exactly like my old bike...
> 
> Hey! Where'd ju get dat at?


Just floating around on the web where everything is these days. Too bad you let it go.


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## Pariel (Oct 23, 2010)

My 32-year old Schwinn is still working hard, so I couldn't care less how the company's doing. Why replace a good thing? ;-)


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## BigCircles (Mar 25, 2009)

As a kid, I grew up in Chicago and I can still remember going to the Schwinn factory on a field trip. Like most kids at the time, I also ended up riding a Varsity. It had a rat trap rack on the back and I rode it everywhere. Great memories...

I have friends who ride vintage Paramounts...and that got me interested in the Waterford brand.

So I decided to work with my LBS who happens to be a Waterford dealer.

My new bike is almost complete and I couldn't be happier. It's a beautiful bike, and I can't wait to ride it!

Here are some teaser pic's...


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## chas0039 (Jun 26, 2007)

I couldn't be happier with mine, looks like they have changed the emblem on the head tube since mine was made. BTW, watch out for the paint is flakes and chips if you look at it. You should see if they will include a tube of touch up as your color will be hard to match. I was lucky, mine was black.


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## Camilo (Jun 23, 2007)

SlimDandy said:


> Well there certainly is some merit in your thoughts, Sir. However, I remember when a bike being heavy was a plus, not a minus.
> I also remember when a Schwinn bicycle was very highly regarded and every kid on the block, wanted a Schwinn and nothing else would do.
> 
> Cheers! :thumbsup:


I was born in the early 50s and lived in rural, small town and suburban mid-America.

I don't remember this at all. Nobody I ever knew or played with ever thought one second about the brand of the bike, only if it worked and preferably was red with chrome fenders. The dual speed Bendix bikes were what was coveted, no matter the brand. Didn't even matter if it was a Huffy - they worked, we rode them and were never envious of any Schwinn that I can remember. It was just another brand.

I had a Columbia (?) bike that met all of the above specs and not only was I tickled pink to have it, my friends thought it was pretty cool. It also had a bell button integrated into the toptube "tank", IIRC.

Shwinn or any "brand", irrelevant.

By the time any of us were aware of "10 speeds" it was already well known that Schwinns were POS's and to be avoided in favor of almost anything, but particularly inexpensive Raleigh, Peugeot or Gitane for us recreational hacks who wanted cheap muck around 10 speeds (as opposed to high end racers).

Not to be argumentative, but I just don't remember Schwinn ever having the status you remember.


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## godot (Feb 3, 2004)

If you can get hold of a copy, the book "No Hands - The Rise and Fall Schwinn" is a pretty interesting read.


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## Lotophage (Feb 19, 2011)

SlimDandy said:


> It appears as though the Old Schwinn Tradition is finally gone forever. There once was a time when an American bicycle customer would exclaim quite proudly, that they were going to buy a Schwinn. Buying a Schwinn automatically meant purchasing guaranteed quality in a bicycle.
> If it wasn't a Schwinn, it was immediately suspect.
> 
> Now days, if you've purchased a Schwinn, folks assume the worse, raise their eyebrows, and hope that you'll see better days.
> ...


Seems to me, if you go to the website, that the bikes that schwinn is selling now are pretty analogous to the stuff they sold when I was a kid.

When you wen into the schwinn shop, there was a whole bunch of low end stuff with a few decent ones up on the walls. Paramount (and about anything more than a varsity) had to be ordered- it's not like they kept the really good stuff in stock...


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## F45 (Nov 25, 2010)

tihsepa said:


> They may need unions but, unions here are the reason those business are gone. We have laws now,we dont need unions. Sorry, all they do now is protect the turds.


The stories I could tell.....so true.


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## george kraushaar (Jan 15, 2007)

As the Christmas of 1958 approached so my dad promised my brother and me new bikes. Well, that year had been very difficult for dad. He had been building houses and it had rained all winter and he didn't get much work in. Imagine our disappointment when we looked under the Christmas tree to find a single used Schwinn single speed cruiser. Ungrateful wretches we were! The next year my dad did much better and Christmas brought us each brand new shiny Bristish racing green Hercules English racers! Now those were bikes compared to that old Schwinn clunker. We rode them and rode them, year in and year out, until we wore them out, and we kept riding them anyway. That bike lasted me the rest of my childhood.


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## chas0039 (Jun 26, 2007)

godot said:


> If you can get hold of a copy, the book "No Hands - The Rise and Fall Schwinn" is a pretty interesting read.


Thanks for the tip. I'm always looking for new bike books to read.


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## rjw4 (Jun 7, 2011)

I had a beautiful Schwinn Homegrown that I sold a few years ago. It was a fantastic bike, but hard to sell because of the stigma that went with the name.


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## lampshade (Jul 18, 2002)

rjw4 said:


> I had a beautiful Schwinn Homegrown that I sold a few years ago. It was a fantastic bike, but hard to sell because of the stigma that went with the name.


I remember the Homegrown Mtn. bikes being really good in the late 90s.


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## Scooper (Mar 4, 2007)

Schwinn acquired the Homegrown technology from Yeti. Here's my '97 Homegrown Factory Suspension.


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## onthebottom (May 4, 2011)

Kontact said:


> Let's see a country's economy survive on all service industry jobs. If no one actually produces a product from their labor, there is no new capital entering the economy. The snake eats itself, then dies.
> 
> If the majority of Schwinn employees felt a union was necessary, then there was a problem with Schwinn that the unions didn't cause.


All wealthy economies are 70% services... All.

OTB


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