# Rival 2012: Should I expect all gears to work?



## ybgirnadnerb (Mar 15, 2012)

new to road biking and the slew of technical issues that arise when you're trying to force a chain from one spinning chainwheel to another.

i have a one-month old CAAD10 with 2012 Rival on it. if you want more detailed specs, it's just the stock bike.

i've noticed that in certain extreme gear combinations, shifting will throw the chain off or catch it within the derailleur. i'm running 53x39 and 11-26. here are some patterns i've observed. one of them is particularly odd because the shift was problematic despite a non-extreme chainline. trying odd combinations like 53x26 or 39x11 understandably creates problems, but when you're in the middle of the cassette...


53x11,12,13 --> 39 --> chance that chain will jam between FD cage and 53 chainwheel
39x26,23,21 --> 53 --> chain will make loads of noise, take a while to shift, significant chance of failing to catch and falling off towards inside
53x17 --> 39 --> (pictured) chain sucked into cage/big chainwheel, immobilizing crank unless i want to pedal backwards (this one particularly surprised me because 17 is smack dab in the middle of the casette, which is 11, 13, 15, 16, 17, 19, 21, 23, 26, meaning that this is not an extreme angle for the chain and should not, to my simple mind, be problematic)

the derailleur has been examined by the LBS that built it, and they tell me that with sram, i should avoid the three most extreme positions in order to ensure proper shifting up front. that is to say, do not run the following gears if i intend to shift up front: 53x(21-26); 39x(11-15). they've said all limits, tensions, angles and spacing, etc. are set correctly.

sure, i can use the whole rear cassette while in 53 without chain rub. but am i supposed to be able to shift up front in all these positions that are causing me issues? and what the hell is my chain doing getting sucked in when i'm in the exact middle of the casette in the back?!

eyeing a 2013 red FD...

in short: (1) is my bike shop correct that i should expect issues in those (fairly expansive) combinations; (2) what is happening in the attached pictures


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## iclypso (Jul 6, 2011)

FD looks like it's set too high which allows the chain to jam between the chainwheel and derailleur. Park Tools FD Adjustment


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## ybgirnadnerb (Mar 15, 2012)

that's what i suspected once i saw that happen! but the LBS said it was fine...sigh...

thanks for the advice.


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## tlg (May 11, 2011)

ybgirnadnerb said:


> the derailleur has been examined by the LBS that built it, and they tell me that with sram, i should avoid the three most extreme positions in order to ensure proper shifting up front.


They are correct. This is called cross chaining and it shouldn't be done on any bike. Do some searches here, there's LOTS of info on it.
You should avoid those combinations for multiple reasons. It's bad for your chain, performance, shifting, wear. 
That being said, a properly tuned bike should be able to shift in those combinations. It's generally just not crisp and it's hard on the drivetrain. I've never had a bike that I couldn't shift from any combination.



> what the hell is my chain doing getting sucked in when i'm in the exact middle of the casette in the back?!


I'm not sure what you mean by sucked in, but it SHOULD NOT be happening. If your LBS can't figure it out, they are incompetent and I'd go elsewhere.



> that's what i suspected once i saw that happen! but the LBS said it was fine...sigh...


Your FD is too high. If your LBS said it's fine, they are incompetent and I'd go elsewhere.


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## bikerjulio (Jan 19, 2010)

Normal is to have about 2mm clearance from the outer FD plate to the big chain ring at the closest point. Yours looks like 6-7mm.

I'd also check that chain length is correct.


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## tdietz87 (Apr 19, 2011)

I can't believe your LBS is saying this shifting is fine. I have 2011 rival and can shift up and down from any combination. When shifting from the small ring to the big ring I usually slow my cadence a bit to ensure a smooth shift.


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## Kristatos (Jan 10, 2008)

Ditto on the FD adjustment and whoever mentioned chain length as well.

I would check tension on the cable to make sure there's enough pull since you're having trouble getting up into the big ring also.


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## Mute (Dec 2, 2011)

Your LBS is either lazy or incompetent. I don't have trouble with any of my shifts though I do try to avoid the most extreme position on either end even if they shift ok. And yes, I'm running 2012 Rival, though in compact.


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## ybgirnadnerb (Mar 15, 2012)

Thanks everyone for your input.

I confirmed, using girlfriend's calipers (she's an engineer) that the clearance was around 6 mm. I lowered the derailleur to SRAM-recommended 1-3mm and proceed to set the derailleur up according to the instructions in the park tools Blue Book.

No more epic shift fails: all gears available, with the understandable increase in noise in extreme gears and less decisive, but no less effective, shifts in those gears as well.

As for the LBS, this is the second time I've brought something to their attention only to have them tell me it's fine when it's not. Problem is, I have a free year of service with them...I've also had similarly disappointing experiences elsewhere. Maybe bike mechanics in Brooklyn are just too haughty? Haha...

Sent from my phone


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## charlox5 (Jan 31, 2011)

ybgirnadnerb said:


> Thanks everyone for your input.
> 
> I confirmed, using girlfriend's calipers (she's an engineer) that the clearance was around 6 mm. I lowered the derailleur to SRAM-recommended 1-3mm and proceed to set the derailleur up according to the instructions in the park tools Blue Book.
> 
> ...


Unfortunately, not everyone's wrenches excel at customer service. it's shitty that they'd try to make it seem like you're the problem. 

FWIW, though you've adjusted FD height, do check chain length as well. I had a RD jam up on me like you were describing and my LBS told me chain looked a link short.


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## vagabondcyclist (Apr 2, 2011)

iclypso said:


> FD looks like it's set too high which allows the chain to jam between the chainwheel and derailleur. Park Tools FD Adjustment


This.


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## tlg (May 11, 2011)

ybgirnadnerb said:


> I confirmed, using girlfriend's calipers (she's an engineer) that the clearance was around 6 mm. I lowered the derailleur to SRAM-recommended 1-3mm and proceed to set the derailleur up according to the instructions in the park tools Blue Book.
> 
> No more epic shift fails: all gears available, with the understandable increase in noise in extreme gears and less decisive, but no less effective, shifts in those gears as well.


You've just accomplished what your LBS was unable or unwilling to do. Not to mention adjusting derailleurs can be one of the trickier things to do on a bike. I say ditch the LBS free service and just learn to do it yourself. I think you'll fare much better.
You might want to go ask to speak to a service manager.


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## MarvinK (Feb 12, 2002)

Frankly, I'd take it to a different dealer in the area with a better reputation for mechanical competence, have them check the chain length, hanger alignment, etc... and if they fix anything, take you bill back to the original shop. If they won't credit you back that much on your bike, open a complaint with Cannondale and even the BBB.


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## Camilo (Jun 23, 2007)

I would speak directly with the manager or owner. In clear terms tell him what problem you were having, what the shop told you (twice?), how they failed to solve the problem, and how you solved the problem by simply setting it up according to published Sram instructions. He should then tell you why you should still rely on them for the 1 year service. 

You've "paid" for that 1 year of service (by buying the bike from them - it was part of the deal!). You should get what you paid for and the manager needs to know his shop was incompetent in this case.


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