# Force Hard to Shift?



## rplace13 (Apr 27, 2011)

Long time (20+ years) Campy user here. I recently built up a new bike to replace my commuter. I decided for no other reason than to have something different that I would go with SRAM. I ended up with an entire Force bike except for the Red cranks (thanks bonk town). With my busy schedule I even have the shop I got the frame from do the complete build...so I can't believe there are any install issues.

Is is normal to have to really, and I mean really, push the Force levers hard to shift from the small chainring to the larg or from smaller cogs to larger cogs in the rear? I test rode an Apex equiped cross bike for just a short ride a few months back before deciding on SRAM and don't remember it being that stiff. I feel like I am just about to break the lever before it shifts. I recall the Apex bike needing much less effort and not a much lever travel.

To be honest I am a bit bummed out with my decision at this point. Only a couple of rides as the weather, holidays, family issues, etc has limited my time on the new ride. Will it get better? Is this normal? Do they tend to loosen up over time?

Anyone with campy 10s experiance and SRAM notice a drastic difference in effort to shift?


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## robdamanii (Feb 13, 2006)

It shouldn't be any harder than any other manufacturer.

Poor installation (I know you said you had a shop do this, but still) can be a culprit as SRAM does not install the same way Shimano does. I've also seen some issues with excessive cable friction depending on how the cables/housing are run and depending on the bar setup.


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## Gearhead65 (Jan 23, 2010)

+1 on cable friction issue. Mine is very smooth with sealed Nokons. Was helping a buddy adjust his bike and noticed his front shifting was very hard. Turns out some binding where the cable passed the BB.


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## Special Eyes (Feb 2, 2011)

That's it. A drop of lube on the underside BB guideway does a lot for you.


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## jpfirefly (Mar 16, 2012)

I have a somewhat similar issue. When the temperature drops below about 45, my shifting gets a lot harder (I'm currently using Force). Since summer is approaching I'm just going to stop worrying about it until the fall, but it was an unpleasant surprise throughout the cold season.


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## cxwrench (Nov 9, 2004)

that shouldn't happen. should shift the same below 45 as above. impossible to say w/o seeing the bike, but maybe the bb cable guide is dirty? your cables/housing need replacing? maybe you need better gloves?


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## adjtogo (Nov 18, 2006)

OK, here's my review of SRAM Force as I have it on my new 2012 Giant Defy Advanced 1...I hate it!!! Why? I've had more problems shifting the front derailer in just a few months than I ever had with any Shimano Ultegra equipped bike I've ever owned!! I've had that bike in the shop numerous times to have it adjusted and it still doesn't shift smooth enough. Once I get enough money together, I'm swapping out the SRAM Force for Shimano Ultegra. This is the first SRAM equipped bike I ever bought. The only reason why I decided to go with SRAM is because it was the only Giant Defy Advanced available when I bought my bike just before Christmas. All the other Shimano equipped bikes were placed on backorder until late March or early April, and I didn't want to wait that long to get a new ride. I've put well over 600 miles on SRAM since December, but wouldn't recommend it to anyone!!


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## teoky (Mar 5, 2012)

adjtogo said:


> OK, here's my review of SRAM Force as I have it on my new 2012 Giant Defy Advanced 1...I hate it!!! Why? I've had more problems shifting the front derailer in just a few months than I ever had with any Shimano Ultegra equipped bike I've ever owned!! I've had that bike in the shop numerous times to have it adjusted and it still doesn't shift smooth enough. Once I get enough money together, I'm swapping out the SRAM Force for Shimano Ultegra. This is the first SRAM equipped bike I ever bought. The only reason why I decided to go with SRAM is because it was the only Giant Defy Advanced available when I bought my bike just before Christmas. All the other Shimano equipped bikes were placed on backorder until late March or early April, and I didn't want to wait that long to get a new ride. I've put well over 600 miles on SRAM since December, but wouldn't recommend it to anyone!!


I have a new Focus Izalco Pro 3.0 that came with SRAM Force. When I went to the shop to pick it up, I tried shifting from the small chain ring to the big chain ring and the shift was slow, the chain ring has to go through 2 revolution before the chain goes on the big ring. 

The shop changed one part of the front component to something from campy and it solved the issue. The shifting now is very precise and solid. 

I have Super Record 11s on my Dogma and I must say that the SRAM Force shifting is fast and precise. 

Let me ask them what they change.


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## adjtogo (Nov 18, 2006)

Yeah, let me know. It blows when I do a group ride with SRAM Force and need a quick change. Sometimes I get left behind because it won't change. Then I have to pedal my arse off to get caught back up. Definitely not a fan of SRAM. I'm going to see if the LBS owner is willing to change it out to Ultegra. SRAM might be lighter, but it sure isn't reliable.


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## Toona (Mar 8, 2006)

I had a Force group installed on my bike the first year it came out (late 2006). It still works flawlessly and have since built up two frames with Red. No problems with them either. When it first came out, I stopped in a shop while on a ride to ask about it. The shop owner had nothing good to say about Sram and their demo bike shifted poorly, especially the front. I liked the concept and bought the group from my local shop. Apparently, they knew what they were doing when they set it up, because they all shift very well.


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## Kristatos (Jan 10, 2008)

rplace13 said:


> Long time (20+ years) Campy user here. I recently built up a new bike to replace my commuter. I decided for no other reason than to have something different that I would go with SRAM.


I made that same choice a couple years ago and have also experienced slow FD shifting on the SRAM bike. It's just an issue with SRAM that I thought I heard may get better with the newer gruppos? I rode my other bike with R-11 today and it's a night/day difference. 

At any rate, I like SRAM stuff on mountain bikes, but am staying with Campy on the road bikes moving forward.


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## cxwrench (Nov 9, 2004)

adjtogo said:


> Yeah, let me know. It blows when I do a group ride with SRAM Force and need a quick change. Sometimes I get left behind because it won't change. Then I have to pedal my arse off to get caught back up. Definitely not a fan of SRAM. I'm going to see if the LBS owner is willing to change it out to Ultegra. SRAM might be lighter, but it sure isn't reliable.


whoever is working on your bike is doing it wrong. if thousands and thousands of riders on the road have good experience w/ a product, and you don't...either your particular product(s) are defective(unlikely) or whoever is setting it up is not doing it correctly(much more likely). 
think about it for a couple of seconds. if it was that bad, NO ONE would be riding it. obviously you're free to use the brand of your choice, but i'd bet you the cost of your group i could make it work perfectly. in 10mins or less.


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## nightfend (Mar 15, 2009)

Yep, it is bad setup and installation. I know that sucks to hear as you had a shop build it, so you hope they can do a good job. Anyway, either investigate how to install the SRAM front yourself, or go to a different shop that will hopefully be more competent.

The only real issues SRAM has with front shifting is on their Red front derailleur, and it is because of the flexible titanium cage. My shifting improved significantly when I moved to a Force front derailleur. But, in your case, you are already using Force, so this isn't the problem you are having.


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## jpatkinson (Jun 10, 2007)

Wow. Reading a thread like this could put a guy into a cold sweat. I struggled for about a week on what Group to buy for my new build. I have ridden Shimano Ultegra (prior version) on my road bike for the past five years and it has worked fine. Frankly, I don't like the new design of Ultegra 6700, and the shiny/matte palette makes it look "cheap." I started reading about SRAM Force, and decided to order it. On my test rides, it seemed just fine. Oh, well ... it's only $1300! Fingers crossed.


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## robdamanii (Feb 13, 2006)

jpatkinson said:


> Wow. Reading a thread like this could put a guy into a cold sweat. I struggled for about a week on what Group to buy for my new build. I have ridden Shimano Ultegra (prior version) on my road bike for the past five years and it has worked fine. Frankly, I don't like the new design of Ultegra 6700, and the shiny/matte palette makes it look "cheap." I started reading about SRAM Force, and decided to order it. On my test rides, it seemed just fine. Oh, well ... it's only $1300! Fingers crossed.


There's nothing wrong with Force at all. The problems in this thread seem to be more of incompetency on the part of the installer than faults with the parts themselves.


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## adjtogo (Nov 18, 2006)

Just got my SRAM Force equipped Giant Defy Advanced 1 back from the LBS yesterday. They adjusted everything with a fine toothed comb and it shifts flawlessly now. Glad of that!!


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## icsloppl (Aug 25, 2009)

robdamanii said:


> There's nothing wrong with Force at all. The problems in this thread seem to be more of incompetency on the part of the installer than faults with the parts themselves.


Not exactly. The issue is due to how the cable housing "lands" against the stop on the shift mechanism in the shift lever. With SRAM, it's flat. With Shimano, it's tapered. If you don't have the housing precisely cut and/or the install has a degree of either mis-sizing and/or angled approach, the housing will bind when actuated, causing slow and/or inaccurate shifting. The harder you try, the harder it binds...

The Shimano design is well thought out and mature.


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## robdamanii (Feb 13, 2006)

icsloppl said:


> Not exactly. The issue is due to how the cable housing "lands" against the stop on the shift mechanism in the shift lever. With SRAM, it's flat. With Shimano, it's tapered. If you don't have the housing precisely cut and/or the install has a degree of either mis-sizing and/or angled approach, the housing will bind when actuated, causing slow and/or inaccurate shifting. The harder you try, the harder it binds...
> 
> The Shimano design is well thought out and mature.


This would certainly fall under "competency of the mechanic."

Do it right. Pretty simple. Just because the design is different doesn't mean it's bad: it means you actually have to pay attention instead of going through the motions.

Horror.


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## cxwrench (Nov 9, 2004)

icsloppl said:


> Not exactly. The issue is due to how the cable housing "lands" against the stop on the shift mechanism in the shift lever. With SRAM, it's flat. With Shimano, it's tapered. If you don't have the housing precisely cut and/or the install has a degree of either mis-sizing and/or angled approach, the housing will bind when actuated, causing slow and/or inaccurate shifting. The harder you try, the harder it binds...
> 
> The Shimano design is well thought out and mature.


the cable housing doesn't 'land' against anything other than a ferrule. doesn't really matter if the cut is perfect or not, the ferrule is what engages the shifter. i've NEVER had a problem w/ what you're describing. as rob said, if you screw this up...it's definitely 'installer error'.


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