# trackstand tips again?



## Fixed (May 12, 2005)

I've been trying for years, but I just can't perfect a track stand (on fixed). I can hold it for maybe 10 seconds, but not more. I can essentially "balance," but not do that roll back and forth thing, which it seems it necessary to hold one for a long time. I'm completely in awe and envious of guys I see doing this, some even without hands. Amazing.

Between commuting on a fixed gear, with 37 controlled intersections each way, and just wanting to because I think it's part of riding fixed, I really want to master this. I want to do the FC 508 fixed and then hold a track stand at the finish line (layers of issues there) -- I think that's essential to doing it that way.

I don't know whether there is a secret I don't know, whether it's just not enough practice, or whether I have no good sense of balance and can never hope to master it. In any event, would you all, who have mastered this, mind posting your best tips or links to pages that help? Also, how long would you keep trying before giving up? I'm starting to feel foolish, and don't even try very hard on the road, for fear of binding myself up with toe overlap and falling over like an idiot. I'm desperate for help. I need the Yoda of trackstanding. Thanks.


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## tihsepa (Nov 27, 2008)

This guy has got it.


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## Fixed (May 12, 2005)

*thanks*



A from Il said:


> This guy has got it.


That has "deranged" written all over it.


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## fast ferd (Jan 30, 2009)

I'm more Han Solo of trackstands. Yoda can make the bike do it without a rider.

Practice on a grassy field without any spectators. It's really just a balancing act by finding that point between bike and body that allows you to stay upright. 

When I come to a light on my roadbike, I like to slow to a crawl -feathering the brakes - and turn the wheel to about 10 or 11 o'clock. If the road surface is flat, it requires a little modulating with a brake while slightly swinging the bike beneath me.

Trackstands are easier with a fixie, because you really don't need any pitch to the road and you can get by with less turn-in.

Let the force be with you.


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## roadfix (Jun 20, 2006)

Just keep on practicing, you'll get it. I think I practiced for a few minutes everyday for a week before I got it to a point where I was able to hold still for about a minute on the FG. And from that point on you just get better at it.

Nice thing about track standing is that sometimes you never have to put your foot down during your entire commute. But it can get a little silly if you're track standing against a 2 minute traffic signal. Track standing for a few seconds for the light to change is practical.


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## FatTireFred (Jan 31, 2005)

don't be a spaz swinging the bars from side to side, keep em still... you can almost envision a tripod made of the two wheels and a balance point in between


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## Hollywood (Jan 16, 2003)

*trade ya*



Fixed said:


> I need the Yoda of trackstanding. Thanks.


Yoda sez practice.

I pull up to a light with a buddy, who trys to "balance" the whole time...bars turning, body shifting, braking... that ain't it.

Its all about the physics. Steer "into" the slight grade on most roads when you stop, i.e. slowly roll up to a light, ending with your left foot forward (9:00) and then turn the bars left. Gravity will try to roll you backwards/right at which point you resist with pressure on your left pedal. Repeat. Its all very subtle.

you have to size up the upcoming stop so you don't end with feet at 12 & 6.

Leaning the top tube into your left thigh sometimes helps too.

The great thing is once you get it, it works on coastie bikes too. No brakes involved, just gravity.



Now for the trade: gimme some tips on training / nutrition for long distance fixed rides. I'm thinking of doing the SF to LA ALC ride next June on fixed.


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## Fixed (May 12, 2005)

*sure*



Hollywood said:


> Now for the trade: gimme some tips on training / nutrition for long distance fixed rides. I'm thinking of doing the SF to LA ALC ride next June on fixed.


Thanks. 

Sure. Why don't you start a new thread on that, and I'll throw in everything I know.


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## wil (Aug 23, 2004)

I learned to trackstand on geared bike, with a lot of help from this:
http://www.teamestrogen.com/content/asa_trackstand

After learning to do it on a freewheel, doing it fixed is so easy that it feels like cheating!
I found the hardest part about learning to trackstrand was to trust the bike to roll back. Learning to it on a fixed gear where you control the bike rolling back, as opposed to an incline, is probably what's making it difficult for you.


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## JP (Feb 8, 2005)

Well here is another piece of the puzzle. 

I learned to trackstand in the '70s and I've still got it...

BUT...

I'm still uncomfortable when clipped into modern shoes. With clips and straps, you can just step down if you need to. With newfangled shoes, it still feels odd to clip out when stopped; that can hurt my confidence.

Try learning without cleats or with clips and straps first.


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## rdompor (Oct 1, 2009)

Here's a tip that I never noticed until just recently:

I was practicing some no handed track stands and suddenly lost my balance and ejected my right foot from the strap. Surprisingly I didn't tap my foot. I kept my balance with just one foot on the left pedal, but I was rolling back a bit. I put my right foot back onto the pedal and corrected it. Basically what I never noticed before was that most of my weight was on the back/left pedal while I used my front/right pedal to correct any unwanted movement.


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## Balderick (Jul 11, 2006)

I am always dissappointed with myself when I have to put my foot down at lights, and a friend's 12 years old son can sit there trackstanding for hours if he needs to. I think the secret is he does not think about it.

I *am* able to sit stopped without a foot on the ground, but the moment I realise I have stopped (ie I stop talking with my mates) I get the leans. 

Used to happen when I rowed in pairs (two sweep oars, 2 people) - we could sit with oars off the water, but the moment we realised we were doing it we would lean over to one side( usually my side).

So, I think the fear of falling over causes you to fall over. Thoughts?


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## roadfix (Jun 20, 2006)

JP said:


> I'm still uncomfortable when clipped into modern shoes. With clips and straps, you can just step down if you need to.


I find it much easier to click out of clipless pedals than pulling out of clips and straps if I need to abort trackstanding for any reason.

But as far as practicing, it's far more easier to practice with plain platform pedals until you get the hang of it.


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## Fixed (May 12, 2005)

*ah!*



Balderick said:


> I am always dissappointed with myself when I have to put my foot down at lights, and a friend's 12 years old son can sit there trackstanding for hours if he needs to. I think the secret is he does not think about it.
> 
> I *am* able to sit stopped without a foot on the ground, but the moment I realise I have stopped (ie I stop talking with my mates) I get the leans.
> 
> ...


So, don't look at the girl in the red dress?


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## Hollywood (Jan 16, 2003)

Fixed said:


> So, don't look at the girl in the red dress?


we'll get to Distractions in Chapter 3!

-checking to see if the opposite light is changing yet
-the person in the car next to you asking 'how do you do that?'
-the girl in the _______ dress


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## Balderick (Jul 11, 2006)

Fixed said:


> So, don't look at the girl in the red dress?


Well, if I am admiring a very nice car, I sometimes scare myself when I have stopped and not realised it...


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## waldo425 (Sep 22, 2008)

Fixed said:


> That has "deranged" written all over it.


I beg to differ --- this --- has deranged written all over it.


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## Dizle (Oct 25, 2008)

if you are on a fixed gear you should have no problem doing it. Start on a flat and smooth surface, going slow come to a stop and use your legs at the 3 and 6 oclock position to rock the bike back and forth with the wheel turned to one side. Brakes are not needed and may just complicate things in the beginning. It helps a lot to use clipless pedals or clips if thats your thing, to get more power while your stopped trying to control the track stand.


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## Fredke (Dec 10, 2004)

Fixed said:


> I don't know whether there is a secret I don't know, whether it's just not enough practice, or whether I have no good sense of balance and can never hope to master it.


For me, it was all about practice. Every day for a couple of weeks, when I came home from work, I'd spend 15-30 minutes out in the driveway practicing. For the first week and a half, it felt pretty hopeless. I thought my balance sucked and I'd never get it. Then one day it just started to all come together and very quickly, I was up to holding a stand for 5 minutes or more.

A couple of things that help for me: realizing that you need to really turn the front wheel: if you turn the front wheel somewhere between 60 and 90 degrees, it will be much easier than if you try to do it with the wheel pointing more straight ahead.

Lean the bike into the stand: it's easier, at least for me, if I lean the frame into the direction the wheel is turning (for me, it's easier to do it in a left-turn configuration with me left pedal forward, wheel turned sharply to the left, and the frame leaning to the left). I like to rest the top tube on the inside of my left leg. After you get more comfortable with the balance, it gets easier to keep the frame more vertical and to do the stand while sitting in the saddle, but for starting out, standing with the frame leaning into the turn worked better for me.

Some people say to start out on a slope, but it was a lot easier for me to start out on level ground.


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## old_fuji (Mar 16, 2009)

i actually did a trackstand yesterday on my MTB on the way to class...i have no idea what it was; i converted the bike to singlespeed, and that for some reason seems much easier than a geared bike. anyway, what worked for me was to stand up with the balls of your feet on the pedals, and stay as centered as possible...i found myself mostly using the front brake, but i was feathering the back brake to stay still. i imagine that's like backpedalling a little on a fixie.


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## Pbrink (Jul 9, 2008)

When I'm on the fixie, I just unclip my left foot and kick out the kickstand. It's a '74 Schwinn, with the kickstand mount "Electro-Forged" on, so I never took it off, and it's great for making new guys think I'm a track-standing pro


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## Ventruck (Mar 9, 2009)

Kinda found through the above posts, but ride at very slow speeds. While the feeling isn't exactly like trackstand-ing, it's an intermediate as balance is less reliant on the self-stabilizing factors experienced when riding at higher speeds.

Sounds excessive, but maybe you're a bit "floppy" - no offense. Might want to do a bit of off-bike static strength training. And sorry if I'm ignorant to you already doing this.


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## Fixed (May 12, 2005)

*practice*



Fredke said:


> For me, it was all about practice. Every day for a couple of weeks, when I came home from work, I'd spend 15-30 minutes out in the driveway practicing. For the first week and a half, it felt pretty hopeless. I thought my balance sucked and I'd never get it. Then one day it just started to all come together and very quickly, I was up to holding a stand for 5 minutes or more.
> 
> A couple of things that help for me: realizing that you need to really turn the front wheel: if you turn the front wheel somewhere between 60 and 90 degrees, it will be much easier than if you try to do it with the wheel pointing more straight ahead.
> 
> ...


So, it seems it's all about lots of practice. I'll keep trying. I think I need to be more willing to take the risk of embarrassing myself. ;-)


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## Fixed (May 12, 2005)

*I'm deeply offended?*



Ventruck said:


> Kinda found through the above posts, but ride at very slow speeds. While the feeling isn't exactly like trackstand-ing, it's an intermediate as balance is less reliant on the self-stabilizing factors experienced when riding at higher speeds.
> 
> Sounds excessive, but maybe you're a bit "floppy" - no offense. Might want to do a bit of off-bike static strength training. And sorry if I'm ignorant to you already doing this.


"Floppy?" I do double centuries on the fixed that include 14,000' of climbing, 18% grades, and I commute on a fixed gear 3-4 times per week. I'm highly offended. ;-)

The part I haven't quite gotten is the pedal backwards part. Balance (and strength) can only do so much, as it seems that to really master this, you must be able to roll backwards, which means actually sideways, if the front wheel is at an acute angle. That's just not normal.


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## Ventruck (Mar 9, 2009)

Fixed said:


> "Floppy?" I do double centuries on the fixed that include 14,000' of climbing, 18% grades, and I commute on a fixed gear 3-4 times per week. I'm highly offended. ;-)


WELL rrr: 

Meh, I have no more wisdom to share if it's just the back pedaling component to trackstanding, other than getting accustomed to riding backwards at low speeds.


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## roadfix (Jun 20, 2006)

The back pedaling (perhaps like an1/8 turn of the crank at most) on the FG comes naturally and becomes second nature as you continue to practice. I think that's just another component of trackstanding you automatically learn to do on the FG.


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## m_s (Nov 20, 2007)

I don't own a fixie, but I learned to trackstand on a freewheel. I think I've ridden enough fixed gears to say that good technique is very similar on both. There are lots of good tips here, but I would like to suggest that there is a certain order these things should be attempted. It may not be intuitive which aspects of trackstanding are most difficult. Here's a step-by-step that might be useful.

1) Ride slow, preferably unclipped, and do tight turns. Get used to having the wheel turned at a fairly extreme angle and not panicking. You can practice on grass, of course, though it kind of sucks energy. Maybe use a low-geared bike if you can. Also, grass is bumpy. Come to think about it, I would stick to pavement IMO.

2) Choose which foot is dominant. Ideally you'll eventually be able lead with either foot, but everyone has preferences. Master it with one side first. I usually lead with my left foot, as this means I am turning the front wheel to the left. I learned to do this because...

3) Roads are sloped outward. _Even on a fixie_ use this to your advantage. Turn your front wheel into the slope. You've mentioned this is a difficult part for you. It certainly involves turning the bar to a degree that would cause a crash in normal riding conditions, however that's why I included step number one. Hopefully you will be a little more comfortable with this once you get on the street and start to practice there. So anyways, turn your front wheel into the slope with your left foot more or less parallel to the ground. pedal slowly forward. As you turn your wheel, _you should be applying far more pressure with your outside (right) hand than your left_. I think this gets a lot of people into trouble (they don't do it, and lose control of the bars, losing their "T"). You're basically counter-balancing the force of the front wheel and your left foot with your right hand to keep from turning too far in on yourself. It is difficult to explain, let me know if this needs clarification.

4) Come to a stop, and let gravity start to pull the bike backwards. Don't worry about pedaling backwards just yet, keep your balance and let gravity do the work. This is the same on fixed or free. _Don't worry about rear wheel position_. Your front is what's important. You'll roll backwards maybe just a few inches, then pedal forwards, not hard. The whole time, your wheel should be at a not-quite right angle. Repeat ad infinitum. 

5) Once you get the hang of this, you can try flat surfaces. This is not a big difference on a fixie: you substitute rolling backwards for pedaling backwards with your trailing foot. On a freewheel you will need to learn to actually rock your bike backwards. If you can practice on a freewheel, you will be a more skilled fixed trackstander as well. In my opinion, too many fixed riders rely on pedaling backwards, which is not ideal technique. You want to be able to shift your whole body backwards, then rock forwards over the front wheel to halt rear ward motion.

6) Now you have the platform to do whatever you want. Seated, one foot on the front wheel, one-handed, no-handed, even chainless. They all utilize the same rocking back and forth technique. Impress your friends! the best trackstanders utilize very little pedal input in either direction.


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## never_enough (Aug 31, 2009)

I've never really tried until this week and I hate to say it but I had trackstands wired in about half an hour. no hands in another half. I do stay seated so i think that keeps my hips from throwing of the balance. I can only seem to roll backwards for 1 complete pedal rev, so that'll be next on the things to learn, then forget when winter gets here for real.


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## Fixed (May 12, 2005)

*I'm envious*



never_enough said:


> I've never really tried until this week and I hate to say it but I had trackstands wired in about half an hour. no hands in another half. I do stay seated so i think that keeps my hips from throwing of the balance. I can only seem to roll backwards for 1 complete pedal rev, so that'll be next on the things to learn, then forget when winter gets here for real.


You're a cycling god. I'm envious. I suppose some people have balance, and some are just oafs.


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## oldfixguy (Nov 15, 2009)

fixed,

I'll throw in with a few other tips:

1. If nearby, practice on grass. Tarmac rolls quick. Grass holds you back a bit more. Plus, if you are worried about toppling over (you won't but...) being on grass should ease that tension.

2. Super exaggerate the back and forth motion. Don't even try to come to a true and complete "freeze frame" stop. Stay seated. Get your feet in the 3 o'clock/9 o'clock position. Turn the wheel and immediately backpedal. Then push forward. Then backpedal. You'll find yourself working in smaller and smaller increments. You'll get it with some practice and then it will be yours forever.


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## revel4tion (Oct 22, 2009)

I just recently got my trackstand down too! Coming from a history of geared mountain bikes, i was only able to hold it on my chumba xcl for maybe 20-30 seconds at best. When i got my fixie it was MUCH easier to learn. 

What i basically did was put the bike in my room and every couple of hours or so, got on it to practice. Within 2 days of maybe 30 minutes of combined effort, it all came together! 

Here's my tip: get next to a wall and use it as support as you get in the trackstand position. With one hand bracing the wall, stand up and try to get a feel for the balance point. Once you feel you sort of got it down, take ur hand off the wall and try to 'trackstand' for as long as you can. If you feel like tipping over, just brace urself against the wall again! What this does is that it eliminates that really shaky transition from rolling to trackstand and allows you to concentrate on the actual 'trackstand' movements. Once you got this down, try doing a short roll in, maybe 1/2-1 pedal stroke.

That's how i learnt, and yesterday i was able to hold my first trackstand at a redlight for its full duration! felt damn cool haha


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## Fixed (May 12, 2005)

*practicing*

Spent over an hour practicing yesterday, and just can't get it. I can pull up, roll forward, backward, and then when I try to go forward, I lose it. Tried all sorts of wheel angles, both left and right. This is hard. Thanks.



revel4tion said:


> I just recently got my trackstand down too! Coming from a history of geared mountain bikes, i was only able to hold it on my chumba xcl for maybe 20-30 seconds at best. When i got my fixie it was MUCH easier to learn.
> 
> What i basically did was put the bike in my room and every couple of hours or so, got on it to practice. Within 2 days of maybe 30 minutes of combined effort, it all came together!
> 
> ...


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## serious (May 2, 2006)

When XC racing we ride in technical sections that most roadies would walk, so I consider myself reasonably apt at riding. But I cannot trackstand all that well and find it much harder on the road than mtb. Somehow, I could not care less.


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## roadfix (Jun 20, 2006)

serious said:


> ...... Somehow, I could not care less.


I agree. 

I don't track stand now as much as I used to. In many instances now I'd rather just put my foot down at stoplights. But when I do trackstand for any reason it's just mostly showing off......for the most part...and I get a kick out of that too...


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## m_s (Nov 20, 2007)

Yeah, agreed. Not really useful past about 3 second pauses. But great for showing off, especially if you add a pivot or something in there. Sometimes I'll sit back and pretend to talk on my phone while trackstanding at stoplights. Kind of pathetic, really. Hasn't gotten me laid yet.


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## Fixed (May 12, 2005)

*sure*



m_s said:


> Yeah, agreed. Not really useful past about 3 second pauses. But great for showing off, especially if you add a pivot or something in there. Sometimes I'll sit back and pretend to talk on my phone while trackstanding at stoplights. Kind of pathetic, really. Hasn't gotten me laid yet.


Of course it's for showing off! Heck, I want to do the FC 508 fixed and then hold a good track stand at the finish line.

To me, it's part of riding fixed gear. Just seems like a essential skill. 

There is a practical reason for it. If you ride fixed gear in road cleats, it can be more difficult to get clipped in while trying to speed away from a stop light. It would be nice to stay clipped. Also, if you have ever ridden up an 18% grade that goes on for 2,000' of climbing, it would be nice to be able to pause occasionally, without unclipping, to rest a few seconds, then get going again. Clipping in Look road cleats on an 18% grade on a road that is 10' wide with other riders around while you are redlined is possibly as difficult as just doing the track stand. ;-)

No, it ain't going to get anyone laid. If that were possible, I'd master a no hands track stand in one day.


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## Fixed (May 12, 2005)

*tracks*



Fredke said:


> Some people say to start out on a slope, but it was a lot easier for me to start out on level ground.


I looked at photos of racers doing track stands on the track, and they all have the front wheel straight and the rear of the bike up the track slope at quite an acute angle. What's with that?


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## roadfix (Jun 20, 2006)

Fixed said:


> I looked at photos of racers doing track stands on the track, and they all have the front wheel straight and the rear of the bike up the track slope at quite an acute angle. What's with that?


From that position, with the rear at higher elevation, they can sprint off faster.


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## Fixed (May 12, 2005)

*oh*



roadfix said:


> From that position, with the rear at higher elevation, they can sprint off faster.


Looks like fun. I've always wanted to race on a track.

How do you suppose the two riders managed to synchronize their wheel positions exactly? Check the spokes in front and the decals on the rear disks.


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## JohnHenry (Aug 9, 2006)

http://shiftlessbastards.com/

There's a local group (shiftless bastards) headed up by a shop owner here in Springfield (Queen City Cycles).


I think you can see videos at their YouTube channel of track stand contests. Simply, it makes me ill. 
I can hover for a few ticks at a stop light. Other than that, it's flounder time.


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## r_mutt (Aug 8, 2007)

Fixed said:


> Looks like fun. I've always wanted to race on a track.
> 
> How do you suppose the two riders managed to synchronize their wheel positions exactly? Check the spokes in front and the decals on the rear disks.



how about pure luck?


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## bikenerd (Jan 22, 2004)

Fixed said:


> How do you suppose the two riders managed to synchronize their wheel positions exactly? Check the spokes in front and the decals on the rear disks.


Obviously they have the exact same gear ratio -


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