# 33km steep (9%) mountain, need feeback



## phoward (Mar 19, 2007)

There is a 33km race in the mountains that begins with 16km @ 2.5%, then 6km @ 7% and the last 10km @ 9%.

By now I'm training it with my standard gearing 39/53 crank and 12-25 cassette. My plan is to continue training this way to gain power and swap for a compact 34/50 just for the race to take advantage of the less effort.

I'll appreciate your feedback about my strategy. Thanks,

Patrick


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## Creakyknees (Sep 21, 2003)

here you go:


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## Creakyknees (Sep 21, 2003)

p.s. I disagree with your strategy... train how you plan to race. If you need a 34 to get to the top at your optimal cadence, then you should train on 34 in your optimal cadence range.

best, of course, would be to train on the actual climb, or as similar as you can find.


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## Pablo (Jul 7, 2004)

Why would you train with one gearing and then swap? That sounds like a bad idea. Just ride a lot of steep hills and learn how to not blow up.


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## spade2you (May 12, 2009)

If you're going to switch, probably do it now so everything is dialed in and tuned up before the race. Depending on how/where you're training, it probably won't matter too much since your legs will know what kind of gear they should be in.


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## Gnarly 928 (Nov 19, 2005)

phoward said:


> There is a 33km race in the mountains that begins with 16km @ 2.5%, then 6km @ 7% and the last 10km @ 8%.
> 
> By now I'm training it with my standard gearing 39/53 crank and 12-25 cassette. My plan is to continue training this way to gain power and swap for a compact 34/50 just for the race to take advantage of the less effort.
> 
> ...


 I'd think your present gearing would be fine for the climb you describe, but if you need lower, change it out well before your race, like everyone says. It's not a good idea to take new set-ups to a race without at least a couple of good trial rides.


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## phoward (Mar 19, 2007)

Creakyknees said:


> here you go:


I wish have the power and torque of the Ducati Monster but feel more like a two stroke CR125. 

Maybe a better cyclist can run a decent cadence uphill (8%) but I can't. In some of the steepest parts of the track I saw 40rpm on the computer.


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## spade2you (May 12, 2009)

phoward said:


> I wish have the power and torque of the Ducati Monster but feel more like a two stroke CR125.
> 
> Maybe a better cyclist can run a decent cadence uphill (8%) but I can't. In some of the steepest parts of the track I saw 40rpm on the computer.


Depending on your power to weight ratio, eventually all cyclists will have to drop their cadence for a given incline. I'm a very light guy, so it's pretty rare that I drop below 80rpm, with 110-120 my usual goal cadence.


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## Guest (Oct 15, 2009)

I concur if you are going to switch, do it now.

Any chance you can pre-ride all or part of it to get a feel for the grade with current gears?


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## Exciton (Aug 8, 2008)

That race sounds like fun. Where/when is it taking place?


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## phoward (Mar 19, 2007)

Maybe far from you, It's called Trek-Subaru challenge, Santiago, Chile. Nov 29th. 

The website http://www.desafiotreksubaru.cl/

Thanks for the advise, tomorrow will be my last training with normal crank and then switch to the compact. Thanks,


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## jasonwells4 (Aug 7, 2006)

You should probably try a 12-27 cassette, before of a new crankset. 8% isn't too tough.

Why does the topic title say 9% anyways?


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## teddysaur (Dec 30, 2004)

Depending on how fit and strong you are.

E.g. I weight about 64kg using 39/27 gear ratio at 60rpm on 8% slope (about 11kph). I will be running near my LT with my given power/weight ratio.

To do that for 33km, it will be at my LT for 3 hours. I think I will bonk in less than 2hours.


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## jasonwells4 (Aug 7, 2006)

Yeah, I mostly meant he should just try it before the event. It's apparently not 33 km @ 8% anyways. Besides that, if it's a race, speeds should be in double digits(in MPH) for single digit grades...


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## muscleendurance (Jan 11, 2009)

thats an idea I tried before..it worked..for me (trained with a 25 and changed to a 27 for race day) was on the scale of a death ride by the way.


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## DirtTurtle (Dec 21, 2007)

What kind of level do you race at? Its a bit hard to judge consering the length of early climbing, but most race should be going fast enough to spin a 25 or 27 up 8% well enough for most people using a 39. Suffering after you blow up with no more gears is a diff story. Also depends on whether you can climb out of the saddle for long periods or need to sit and spin. If you have the time and still have doubt go the compact, you cant change it once you realise you need it during the race.


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## tecnosabba (Jan 10, 2007)

Hi two-stroke Patrick 


Maybe I'll digress here, but two things struck me in your posts : 

"My plan is to continue training this way to gain power " AND those 40 RPM on a 8 % grade.


Remember the basics.This has of course been written often enough on the RBR forums, but 

power = torque X cadence

An increment in power results in an increment in speed, all other things (including your weight) being equal.

To increase your power, you must

- either increase your muscular strength, which will more or less increase your torque value at the bottom bracket. This can be obtained by running high gears at a low cadence, or

- your cadence. 

Now, 40 RPM is REALLY low. I understand that this cadence was not due to a voluntary training aimed at increasing strength, but that you were quite bluntly, at your limit.

Unless you are a muscular beast, which would possibly allow you to apply insane torque figures to your bottom bracket, thus running higher gears, you will be very slow on that 8 % grade. How slow exactly ?

Speed in km/h = circumference of the drive wheel X the size of the chainring divided by the size of the rear sprocket X RPM X 60 minutes.

Typical circumference of a 700 X 23 C wheel (which I assume you have on your bike ; different 700C tyre sizes would not make much of a difference in circumference) : 2,097 mm or 2.097 meters. By application of the formula you get the folowing :

2.097 X 39 teeth / 25 teeth X 40 RPM X 60 minutes = approx. 7,851 meters / hour is 7,85 km/h. That's 4.66 MPH. This is slow, at least for an 8 % grade. 

Maybe you can't go faster, no matter the cadence or the gearing. Then, it's a matter of strength, inability to spin faster, fitness, maybe weight....

But maybe your power could be better if you raised your cadence, which can be achieved in a shorter time than increasing strength. 

You could probably put out more power if you had appropriate gearing. Maybe your would be able to sustain a higher cadence on that slope, but your heavy gears prevent you from actually pedalling faster. The benefits of increased cadence would offset, and maybe even overweigh, the detriments, in terms of speed, of decreased gearing, which would result at least in the same, or even in a higher power output, and speed.

Long story short : you almost certainly have more reserves in your cadence than in your strength. However, with your current gearing, those reserves remain unused.

Good for you that you have taken the decision to switch to compact gearing now. You still have a good month before the race to get acquainted to it. However, don't choose a 25 as the largest cog. Take a 27, or even a 28. Two strokes rev high !

Keep us updated on your cadence on that steepest part with your new setup !


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## phoward (Mar 19, 2007)

jasonwells4 said:


> You should probably try a 12-27 cassette, before of a new crankset. 8% isn't too tough.
> 
> Why does the topic title say 9% anyways?



Sorry, it's a mistake. The last 10km are 9%.


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## phoward (Mar 19, 2007)

Tecnosabba, thanks a lot for the explanation, was very clear.

In short, i'm 5kg overweight but the worst part was 6 ~ 7 month off the bike that ended the last week of september.

Last saturday did the track with the compact crank and was very evident that in the first part of the climb the less load allow me to spin faster and did that stage in the same time but in the real uphill i went slower than before.

I can feel my legs very weak when riding (not obvious in MTB), so i will stay with the compact for at least two weeks more, but i'm going to alternate training between heavy_load_low_cadence and normal_load_high_cadence sessions, to gain strength while keep aerobic engine awake. 

Today I run my second heavy_load training and can feel my quadriceps and lower back (Gastrocnemius?) muscles working. It doesn't hurt but the holidays are over for them.

Thanks,

PD: I apologize about my english if it's not as clear as it should.


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## tecnosabba (Jan 10, 2007)

"_... the holidays are over for them._" :thumbsup: 

Your English is very good and understandable...but who am I to judge that...I am not an English native speaker !


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## phoward (Mar 19, 2007)

After the light_load_high_cadence session, the results are:
Average speed: 15% faster
Energy burned: 4% less but today only 25% came from fat instead of 35% yesterday
Average cadence: 46% faster

The real difference came from the RPE because I was feeling out of oxigen going uphill.

I think i'm going on the right direction!


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## tecnosabba (Jan 10, 2007)

phoward said:


> I think i'm going on the right direction!


Definitely!


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