# BB30A with Campy?



## boomersooner69 (Sep 3, 2009)

I've been offered a great deal on a 2014 Synapse. If I buy it I plan on selling the Ultegra groupset and installing Chorus. My question is can I use the BB30 Campy adapter even though the bb shell is wider on the new BB30A synapse bottom bracket? (All these BB standards are ridiculous). Cannondale's "help desk" is down right now so I can't email them, I plan on asking the LBS today but I'd like any informed opinions here as well. Thanks.


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## bikerjulio (Jan 19, 2010)

I'd have to think no - it won't work. The shell appears to be 5mm wider.

Campy BB30 adapters (which I have had installed in a SS for 3 years with no problems), are designed for a 68mm wide BB. There's no spacers to loose on a Campy UT crankset, therefore it's not long enough.

What a mess.


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## veloci1 (Nov 29, 2005)

will the 2014 PF/BB30 campy cranks solve this issue?


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## Dan Gerous (Mar 28, 2005)

Simple: install a full Campagnolo group except the crankset, use a Hollowgram, win-win situation!


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## boomersooner69 (Sep 3, 2009)

Dan Gerous said:


> Simple: install a full Campagnolo group except the crankset, use a Hollowgram, win-win situation!


I wish it was that simple but the Hollowgram seems to be about $250-300 more expensive.


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## Dan Gerous (Mar 28, 2005)

boomersooner69 said:


> I wish it was that simple but the Hollowgram seems to be about $250-300 more expensive.


If money's a factor, you can always just keep the crank that comes with it, it will work just fine with the Campy groupset.


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## mejepa (Aug 8, 2013)

Has anybody tested this configurtion?
Regards.


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## kbwh (May 28, 2010)

Is this BB30A a "42x68 + 5 mm on the left side" kind of deal?

If the BB solution is to the normal Cannondale standard with no direct coupling between the two faces of the BB I would hesitate to use UT cranks in it. BB30 is fine with UT if the frame maker over engineers it by putting an Al or carbon shell between the two sides. Funny thing that the main improvement of PF30 over BB30 is that the former requires a direct coupling between the two sides.

I'd use a Cannondale crank. That SiSL2 seems quite nice. A BB30A specific FSA SL-K should also do.


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## bikerjulio (Jan 19, 2010)

There's no reason a non-Campy crankset won't work with an otherwise Campy group.

In researching BB30A I came across the Cannondale crank instructions: http://bikeboard.at/_uploads/_ber_elements/38565_file1.pdf
which include the instruction:


> 6a. If you are assembling a 73 mm BB shell, (asymmetric), slide the
> spacer marked “BB30A NON DRIVE SPACER SISL2” (above right)
> (5 mm thinner) onto the spindle.


It would appear that either a Cannondale crankset, or an equivalent is a requirement for this BB.


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## Tommy d. (Aug 12, 2012)

There must be a way to fit a Campagnolo crankset on the new Synapse. 
I see it is not offered in the US, but over here in Europe they have the 2014 Synapse on offer with Athena.

From specs:
Crank
Campagnolo Athena Triple, BB30A, 52/39/30

T.


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## frdfandc (Nov 27, 2007)

Campy will fit on the new Synapse frame set. The Euro models have a Campy model avail.

Synapse Hi-MOD Athena - Synapse Carbon - Endurance Road - ROAD - BIKES - 2014

You may have to call Cannondale to see how they did it. 
You just need to use the BB30 adapters


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## bikerjulio (Jan 19, 2010)

frdfandc said:


> Campy will fit on the new Synapse frame set. The Euro models have a Campy model avail.
> 
> Synapse Hi-MOD Athena - Synapse Carbon - Endurance Road - ROAD - BIKES - 2014
> 
> ...


Looks like Campy may have made up some special Athena cranksets.



> Crank
> Campagnolo Athena Triple, *BB30A*, 52/39/30


There's no way a standard Campy crank will fit a BB shell that's 5mm wider. Nor is Campy listing cups for the OT crankset that are BB30A.


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## frdfandc (Nov 27, 2007)

Ok, if it won't fit, then how wide are the cups when threaded into a 68mm bottom bracket shell?

Like I said, might have to call Cannondale. I called the other day about installing a Sram Red BB30 crank into a 2014 Synapse frame. All that was needed was to remove the Sram adjuster and use the wave washer and 2 spacers that came with the FSA crank it was replacing.

The Spindle is long enough. Just need to figure out what Cannondale did.


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## mejepa (Aug 8, 2013)

frdfandc said:


> Ok, if it won't fit, then how wide are the cups when threaded into a 68mm bottom bracket shell?
> 
> Like I said, might have to call Cannondale. I called the other day about installing a Sram Red BB30 crank into a 2014 Synapse frame. All that was needed was to remove the Sram adjuster and use the wave washer and 2 spacers that came with the FSA crank it was replacing.
> 
> The Spindle is long enough. Just need to figure out what Cannondale did.


I have written to Campagnolo and they say no but, please contact Cannondale. I have contacted Cannonadale and they say Yes.
I'm a mess.

Campagnolo UtraTorque do not have developed specific adapters to this measure. I'd to install my current canckset, but I'm afraid ...

Regards.


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## bikerjulio (Jan 19, 2010)

mejepa said:


> I have written to Campagnolo and they say no but, please contact Cannondale. I have contacted Cannonadale and they say Yes.
> I'm a mess.
> 
> Campagnolo UtraTorque do not have developed specific adapters to this measure. I'd to install my current canckset, but I'm afraid ...
> ...


That's pretty interesting in view of the Synapse Athena combo referenced earlier.

After @frd's comment above I went down to my basement and pondered the Campy setup on my SS with the pressed-in cups. I also measured a Campy bearing.

In theory it seems possible to fit a Campy crank. The DS cup would be the same as a regular Campy BB30 cup. However the NDS cup would have to fit a further 5mm into the Synapse shell to make things work. That's with a regular crankset.

So, if Campy don't know how they did it, I can only think that Cannondale found someone to make up some Synapse specific NDS bearing cups.

Still it's odd.


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## mejepa (Aug 8, 2013)

bikerjulio said:


> That's pretty interesting in view of the Synapse Athena combo referenced earlier.
> 
> After @frd's comment above I went down to my basement and pondered the Campy setup on my SS with the pressed-in cups. I also measured a Campy bearing.
> 
> ...


Sorry, what do you mean with "SS" and "DS", here?


bikerjulio said:


> ... Campy setup on my SS with the pressed-in cups.
> 
> _The __DS __cup would be the same as a regular Campy BB30 cup._


If you take a look to the Synapse with Athena, it's a through hole. May be the model is an Athena Overtorque.











Regards.


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## bikerjulio (Jan 19, 2010)

Sorry, "SS" is my shorthand for Supersix. "DS" and "NDS" are common abbreviations for drive side and non drive side.

Yes you are right, it's overtorque.

So, on reflection, it must work as a regular BB30, with specific spacers, like the Cannondale instruction sheet I linked to earlier.


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## frdfandc (Nov 27, 2007)

I did not realize it was the Overtourqe crank.


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## headloss (Mar 3, 2013)

bikerjulio said:


> So, on reflection, it must work as a regular BB30, with specific spacers, like the Cannondale instruction sheet I linked to earlier.


I agree. It looks like it's just a standard BB30 with an adapter (part KP010/ KiT AdAPTER SiBB To 73MM TAP).


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## DNM (Feb 27, 2008)

*Super Record Crank on 2014 Synapse Hi-Mod*



boomersooner69 said:


> I've been offered a great deal on a 2014 Synapse. If I buy it I plan on selling the Ultegra groupset and installing Chorus. My question is can I use the BB30 Campy adapter even though the bb shell is wider on the new BB30A synapse bottom bracket? (All these BB standards are ridiculous). Cannondale's "help desk" is down right now so I can't email them, I plan on asking the LBS today but I'd like any informed opinions here as well. Thanks.


Here are pics on how I did this. Started with a set of BB30 Ultra-Torque cups. On the left cup only: 
1) Machined 5mm from outer face. 
2) Then machined roughly 7.7mm from the inside, where the wave washer sits. This is because only going 5mm puts you into a counterbored section that has not enough meat to support the washer. 
3) Then I filled the 2.7mm with a "washer" (similar to a headset spacer) that I machined (30mm ID, 37mm OD). Now when the cup sits out 5mm, the crank bearing fits into the pocket and works perfectly.

Note that the BB30A has the right cup in the normal position and the left cup is moved out 5mm.


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## nonamed (Jan 5, 2014)

I have another question. I have already ordered Synapse 2014 with Shimano Ultegra. Soon I will replace the crank for my RED22 Crank from another bike. Here is the question: will it match PLUG N PLAY or I will need anything to takie into account before installation ? (I have SRAM RED22 BB30 crankset).


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## bikerjulio (Jan 19, 2010)

nonamed said:


> I have another question. I have already ordered Synapse 2014 with Shimano Ultegra. Soon I will replace the crank for my RED22 Crank from another bike. Here is the question: will it match PLUG N PLAY or I will need anything to takie into account before installation ? (I have SRAM RED22 BB30 crankset).


After rereading this I'm convinced that a standard BB30 crank will not work. A standard BB30 system is 68mm wide, and the Synapse is 73mm, making the std BB30 crank too short.

For a crank to fit needs a spindle longer than a standard BB30. Cannondale's own SISL spindles appear to be longer, and of course the standard Shimano and Campy OT spindles are also longer than BB30.


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## boomersooner69 (Sep 3, 2009)

> For a crank to fit needs a spindle longer than a standard BB30. Cannondale's own SISL spindles appear to be longer, and of course the standard Shimano and Campy OT spindles are also longer than BB30.


What adapter would one need to use a standard shimano crank? Would the press in adapters that accept a threaded bottom bracket be the best option?


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## bikerjulio (Jan 19, 2010)

boomersooner69 said:


> What adapter would one need to use a standard shimano crank? Would the press in adapters that accept a threaded bottom bracket be the best option?


To answer the last first. The Synapse BB is 73mm wide, and so is the threaded insert, making it suitable only for MTB cranksets. @Headloss's link above is for the Cannondale instructions that show this.

I guess the best answer to the first is to see what they do now to mount a Shimano crank. I'm having a hard time coming up with available adapter solutions. Something like a Wheels adapter which presses into the existing bearings and both reduces to 24mm and spaces it out correctly. I guess DS would be conventional, it's the NDS that's got me wondering, because it's already spaced out 5mm, so only needs another 4mm of spacing out.


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## nonamed (Jan 5, 2014)

frdfandc said:


> Like I said, might have to call Cannondale. I called the other day about installing a Sram Red BB30 crank into a 2014 Synapse frame. All that was needed was to remove the Sram adjuster and use the wave washer and 2 spacers that came with the FSA crank it was replacing.
> 
> The Spindle is long enough. Just need to figure out what Cannondale did.


Do not get it.. Someone say that it wont be possible to mount Sram Red22 Crank in Synapse '14 BB (73mm width).

I found SiSl2 crankset instruction:
View attachment 294152


I assume the same will be with another Hollowgram Si crankset.

Now I wonder If i can install without problems Red22 BB30 crankset ? What is 'Sram adjuster' ? can't figure out.

I also found some tech. regarding hollowgram crankset compatibility:
View attachment 294153



Does it mean that I will have to remove only the spacer marked 'BB30A Non Drive Spacer Sisl2' for BB30A to easily mount RED22 crank ? :/

Or maybe I can use the same Spindle (109mm with my Sram Red Crank and easily fit the Sram crank like plug'n'play on Synapse BB) :?


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## frdfandc (Nov 27, 2007)

Remove the adjuster on the Red crank. It's the piece that is on the spindle, directly against the non drive side crank arm.

It just slides off. But it's a snug fit on the spindle.


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## nonamed (Jan 5, 2014)

frdfandc said:


> Remove the adjuster on the Red crank. It's the piece that is on the spindle, directly against the non drive side crank arm.
> 
> It just slides off. But it's a snug fit on the spindle.


You mean this one?:
View attachment 294155


What about those '2.5mm spacer on drive side' *+* bearing shield and washer wave + 1to3 plastic shims + spacer marked BB30A Non drive spacer SISL2 on non drive side which comes already in my Synapse?
Should I leave all these spacers etc. when replacing my Hollowgram crankset for Sram Red? :/
View attachment 294154


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## frdfandc (Nov 27, 2007)

Unfortunately your pictures are not showing up on my phone.

Personally I would not replace the Hollowgram with a Red crank. The Hollowgram is nicer. 

I have not had a single customer replace the Hollowgram crank. It's usually the other way around. They want the Hollowgram crank instead. 

So not sure exactly which spacers are needed. It's trial and error with some common sense to get the spacers correct. 

If your set on the Red crank, I would try it with all the spacers removed except the dust shields first, then add spacers as needed.


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## mejepa (Aug 8, 2013)

DNM said:


> Here are pics on how I did this. Started with a set of BB30 Ultra-Torque cups. On the left cup only:
> 1) Machined 5mm from outer face.
> 2) Then machined roughly 7.7mm from the inside, where the wave washer sits. This is because only going 5mm puts you into a counterbored section that has not enough meat to support the washer.
> 3) Then I filled the 2.7mm with a "washer" (similar to a headset spacer) that I machined (30mm ID, 37mm OD). Now when the cup sits out 5mm, the crank bearing fits into the pocket and works perfectly.
> ...


Hi:

Have you been using your invention?
Does it work? Any noise reported? Any bad funtionality?

Probably, next week I will try it, should,be possible you give me support if I have any doubt?

Regards.


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## DNM (Feb 27, 2008)

mejepa said:


> Hi:
> 
> Have you been using your invention?
> Does it work? Any noise reported? Any bad funtionality?
> ...


Working flawlessly. I tried to attach a PDF that I created with dimensioned drawings that are more explicit than the write-up you quoted. However, it is too large.

PM me with your e-mail address and I will email it to you.

I did this for a Cannondale employee, but don't know if he has tried it or not.


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## mejepa (Aug 8, 2013)

DNM said:


> Working flawlessly. I tried to attach a PDF that I created with dimensioned drawings that are more explicit than the write-up you quoted. However, it is too large.
> 
> PM me with your e-mail address and I will email it to you.
> 
> I did this for a Cannondale employee, but don't know if he has tried it or not.


Thanks I've sent to you my email adress.
The cranks are simetrical with the modification?
Regards.


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## DNM (Feb 27, 2008)

mejepa said:


> Thanks I've sent to you my email adress.
> The cranks are simetrical with the modification?
> Regards.


Perfectly symmetrical. The position is controlled by the right cup, which remains unchanged on both the crank and the bottom bracket.

I sent you the document. If you know how to host it and create a link, you are welcome to do so. I don't have a host site so that is why I emailed it to you.


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## Donn12 (Apr 10, 2012)

following up on an old thread.....is the campy OT crankset wide enough for the 73mm BB on a new synapse?


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## bikerjulio (Jan 19, 2010)

Donn12 said:


> following up on an old thread.....is the campy OT crankset wide enough for the 73mm BB on a new synapse?


Yes. Campy OT is really just their version of a BB386EVO crank, which has a 30mm dia spindle but which fits a 86mm wide bearing setup. I imagine that you may have to omit the NDS adjustable spacer that Campy provides with OT and just use standard BB30 spacers as nesessary, in order to allow for the extra 5mm on that side. Alternatively, leave off the Campy conical spacer and use the adjustable one with a few standard spacers. You just need to end up with a stack on the NDS that's 5mm thinner than a standard BB30 setup. The DS would be the normal Campy setup. Campy do not officially support BB30A, but I would have thought that it could be made to work. http://www.campagnolo.com/media/files/035_28_Technical%20manual%20-%20over%20torque%20crankset%20-%20Campagnolo_Rev03_02_15.pdf


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## Donn12 (Apr 10, 2012)

bikerjulio said:


> Yes. Campy OT is really just their version of a BB386EVO crank, which has a 30mm dia spindle but which fits a 86mm wide bearing setup. I imagine that you may have to omit the NDS adjustable spacer that Campy provides with OT and just use standard BB30 spacers as nesessary, in order to allow for the extra 5mm on that side. Alternatively, leave off the Campy conical spacer and use the adjustable one with a few standard spacers. You just need to end up with a stack on the NDS that's 5mm thinner than a standard BB30 setup. The DS would be the normal Campy setup. Campy do not officially support BB30A, but I would have thought that it could be made to work. http://www.campagnolo.com/media/files/035_28_Technical%20manual%20-%20over%20torque%20crankset%20-%20Campagnolo_Rev03_02_15.pdf


I think it will work as long as the unit from campy is wide enough... Between that and the hideous colors it's pretty tough to get a new synaps with campy and disc brakes!


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## bikerjulio (Jan 19, 2010)

Donn12 said:


> I think it will work as long as the unit from campy is wide enough... Between that and the hideous colors it's pretty tough to get a new synaps with campy and disc brakes!


It's definitely wide enough. On a _normal_ BB30 setup, the Campy OT crank uses a 9mm conical spacer each side to get to an 86mm overall width. (68 + 9 + 9 = 86).

Since a Synapse is 5mm wider on the NDS, the spacer that side needs to be 4mm instead of 9mm. So my suggestion would be to retain Campy's expanding spacer along with 4mm of regular BB30 spacers.


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## Donn12 (Apr 10, 2012)

Thank you- based on that I will assume they are all wide enough. Interestingly, my LBS is recommending a normal UT crankset with a wheels manufacturing bb (or maybe a bb adaptor).


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## bikerjulio (Jan 19, 2010)

Donn12 said:


> Thank you- based on that I will assume they are all wide enough. Interestingly, my LBS is recommending a normal UT crankset with a wheels manufacturing bb (or maybe a bb adaptor).


Wheels are only showing adapters for Shimano/SRAM to BB30A. Not Campy. Campy UT spindle diameter is 25mm, not 24mm, so to use their adapters would require machining them out to 25mm, and removing the UT bearings.

Wheels Mfg - Cannondale BB30a Bottom Brackets


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## stormur (Mar 29, 2015)

My 1st post, so Hello All ! 

I did all-day-long research on topic BB30a Vs Campagnolo. 

From what I found :

- Overtorque : forget it 
-UT : only as posted earlier , otherwise - forget it

and best @the end :

- Power Torque : YES, Campagnolo supplies BB cups for it ( see C documentation )

So, it's possible but only PT… 

Now I have dilemma : or modify UT cups and install Chorus crank, or buy Campy CX 11 crank ( 36-46 ) and replace outer ring for Miche Super 11 (52t), and live with PT crank… 

3rd option is Rotor 3d24 and WheelsMfg adaptor. 

BTW image on Cannondale site with hollow spindle is … fake. There's no fully hollow spindles from Campagnolo. Not a single one


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## MMsRepBike (Apr 1, 2014)

stormur said:


> My 1st post, so Hello All !
> 
> I did all-day-long research on topic BB30a Vs Campagnolo.
> 
> ...


Interesting.
Welcome aboard, buckle up.


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## stormur (Mar 29, 2015)

My Synapse Athena (triple … brrrr ) will arrive next week, so I will look how it's made in real life , and report ( if anyone needs ).


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## DNM (Feb 27, 2008)

According to the 2015 technical specifications document from Campy, they now support a BB30A 73 x 42 cupset.

*EDIT* I was wrong on this. Thanks for setting me straight. Not for UT.


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## stormur (Mar 29, 2015)

PowerTorque only. that explain Athena on Synapse.


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## DNM (Feb 27, 2008)

You are right. I guess I saw what I wanted to see.


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## bikerjulio (Jan 19, 2010)

Just because you have not seen an OT installation does not mean it cannot be done. It is a BB386EVO crank which is what BB30a is designed for.

In a straight BB30 installation the OT crank uses 2 x 9 mm conical spacers, one each side. BB30a pushes the NDS bearing out a further 5mm, meaning that if 4 mm of regular BB30 spacers are used instead of the supplied conical spacer, then all will be symmetrical again.


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## stormur (Mar 29, 2015)

In theory, you are absolutely right. But I didn't saw anyone done that… And "some say"…if google didn't index it- it doesn't exist  

At first I tried to find way using owned UT crank, if that would be impossible, then OT or CX11 crank would be my 2nd choices. I found guy, who's "passionate" miller (? excuse my ENG) and he will convert bb30 NDS cup 4me  . If it won't work, then OT.


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## bikerjulio (Jan 19, 2010)

OK here is an idea to use UT.

Buy the Athena BB30a BB cups.

Then either:

remove the NDS bearing from the UT spindle and use the one in the cup

or

Remove the NDS bearing from the cup and use the UT bearing.

I'd do the first one first I think.


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## stormur (Mar 29, 2015)

Had same thought… there's questions only for NDS : will be necessary to mill UT spindle a fraction of mm ( after removal of bearing ) or PT cup ( diameter ) to avoid pressing bearing twice ( on spindle and to cup ) ? 

Just do not know bearing size on UT crank and in PT cup


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## bikerjulio (Jan 19, 2010)

I guess the question is whether the UT spindle is fractionally larger diameter than the PT spindle. I don't know the answer to that. You'd have to try to measure both. It would not be much - just the difference between "light press fit" and "push fit" at the bearing location. The UT spindle is fractionally smaller diameter along most of it's length, then widens slightly at the bearing mount area.

The other possibility is that a PT bearing has been reamed out a few thou to allow the spindle to slide through. Again, you'd need one in your hand to try.

If UT is larger, then the second option would work - remove the bearing from the NDS cup and stick with the UT one.


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## stormur (Mar 29, 2015)

There's more issues...

To all work fine : Lets say ( easiest way ) I will remove bearing from PT NDS cup. And outer dimensions of PT & UT bearings are equal. And distance between inner bearing seat flange of cups ( DS PT/UT, NDS PT with removed bearing ) is equal to PT bb30a cups… Then left only to remove bearing and mill NDS PT cup inner "race" by fraction of mm to allow UT bearing slide instead of press. 

Hope it's understandable


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## bikerjulio (Jan 19, 2010)

Yes. I'm theorizing as I've never played with a PT system or it's BB. If the bearing is a press fit in the cup, then you'd end up with a pressed in UT crank, and I'd be seeing a piece of wood and a hammer in your future in order to remove the NDS crank half. Not ideal. 

So, the choice is either to skim the inside of the cup as you say, or skim the UT bearing seat area to allow a push fit in the PT bearing.


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## stormur (Mar 29, 2015)

Already have 3 options, so do not really looking further  

1. Milling BB30UT cup as mentioned earlier in topic ( thanks again for drawing ! )
2. OT as you described ( looks veery doable )
3. To leave PT bearings in frame and purchase CX11 crank, and change rings ( hate this siler-ish a la FSA… plus need 52-36 min )

Real problem is , there's not many Synapse-Campagnolo users, so to design and manufacture adapter can be not so profitable  .


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## stormur (Mar 29, 2015)

Sorry for replying to own post, but it's justified, I believe.

Found the way  I'm a fan of less as possible mod's in case of BB, so searched for (almost) non-invasive way to have UT crank on BB30a . Went thru all Campagnolo service documentation and results is :

Right PowerTorque BB30A cup is same as UltraTorque BB30 cup. 
Bearing installed in Left PT BB30A cup is same as Chorus/Recrod/S_Record bearing installed on spindle. 
Distance between bearing races for PT is same as for UT. 

That lead me to idea to remove bearing from NDS PT BB30A cup, mill cup ( in inner diameter, cup race ) just a tiny tiny bit, enough to lightly press UT bearing assembled on crank ( means to 37mm) . Done. 

UT cups require excessive milling ( as mentioned previously ) , here milling is close to none  

When bike will arrive, I'l do it and report .


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## stormur (Mar 29, 2015)

So, I talked with Campagnolo… 

Crank on Synapse Athena is 100% PT with bb30a PT cups. it's just missing crank bolt for imaging  

PT cups cannot be modified for UT crank- different bearings sizes (PT have 1mm+ OD )


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