# Road bikes that fits big (40c) tires?



## fishman473 (Aug 2, 2004)

Can anyone think of some bikes that are basically high-performance road bikes that happen to fit larger (~40c) tires? This probably also means disc brakes, unfortunately, but would be a worthwhile tradeoff for the versatility.

So far I've found the Litespeed T5g and GT Grade.

The trouble is they have really high head tubes, 10 cm higher than my current road bike, which makes me think it would be hard for me to get the bars back down where I want them. I really just want a road bike that happens to have the tire clearance for gravel or CX tires. I want it to ride like a stable, long distance road bike, not a twitchy CX bike.

I know I've read about a couple other companies doing this, but the above two are the only ones I can find searching today. Thoughts?


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## Peter P. (Dec 30, 2006)

The Soulcraft Dirtbomb.

I own a Soulcraft Royale and have nothing but good things to say about Soulcraft, builder Sean Walling, and my Soulcraft Royale.

Soulcraft Dirtbomb


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## velodog (Sep 26, 2007)

Boulder bicycle builds a bike, the "Road Sport" that'll take 30mm tires. I realize you asked about 40mm tires but 30's are bigger than 23's.

Boulder Bicycle Road Sport Overview and Pricing

Rene Herse Bicycles


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## fishman473 (Aug 2, 2004)

I'm looking for something that could keep pace in a Master's road race or (more likely) a fast paced group ride. I'm a fan of steel, I've got 5 steel bikes, including my primary mountain bike (Soulcraft Option 3) and my venerable Bruce Gordon BLT; which I think is pretty similar to what you guys are suggesting. But I'm looking for something that would be lighter and stiffer than steel can offer (with the possible exception of Renolds 953). Really, a no-holds-bar road bike that also fits big tires.

Someone just pointed me at the Norco Search... that's exactly what I'm talking about.


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## velodog (Sep 26, 2007)

Calfee makes the "Adventure" frame that will take 700cx35mm tires or it can be had to take 650bx42mm tires.

http://calfeedesign.com/adventure/


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## bikerjulio (Jan 19, 2010)

That Norco looks interesting, although I'd be checking with them as to whether there's clearance for 40mm tires.

On a related subject, I'm using 40mm Clement MSO tires on my cross/gravel trail/road bike, and very happy with their performance on all surfaces.

X'PLOR MSO | Clement Cycling, Cyclocross Tires, Adventure Tires, Mountain Bike Tires, Road Bike Tires


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## fishman473 (Aug 2, 2004)

The 650b option is interesting.

The problem I am seeing with a lot of the bikes mentioned above is that they have even less BB drop (~70mm) than my road bike (75mm). You would think if the idea was to ride them on larger tires then they would have _more_ BB drop (80-85mm?). 650b wheels would solve this issue.

Also the head tubes are really tall on a lot of these. Odd that they would be taller than CX bikes.


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## fishman473 (Aug 2, 2004)

bikerjulio said:


> That Norco looks interesting, although I'd be checking with them as to whether there's clearance for 40mm tires.
> 
> On a related subject, I'm using 40mm Clement MSO tires on my cross/gravel trail/road bike, and very happy with their performance on all surfaces.
> 
> X'PLOR MSO | Clement Cycling, Cyclocross Tires, Adventure Tires, Mountain Bike Tires, Road Bike Tires


Norco says it fits a 40c. I'm actually Running the Continental Cyclocross Speed 42c on my gravel/monstercross bike at the moment, but yeah, basically that's the class of tire I'm talking about.


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## velodog (Sep 26, 2007)

fishman473 said:


> The 650b option is interesting.
> 
> The problem I am seeing with a lot of the bikes mentioned above is that they have even less BB drop (~70mm) than my road bike (75mm). You would think if the idea was to ride them on larger tires then they would have _more_ BB drop (80-85mm?). 650b wheels would solve this issue.
> 
> Also the head tubes are really tall on a lot of these. Odd that they would be taller than CX bikes.


My next bike may be a 650b. I've been a subscriber to "Bicycle Quarterly" and have been following Jan Heine's blog "Off the Beaten Path"

Cycling Books That Have Inspired Me | Off The Beaten Path

The bikes I've been looking too are Randonneur bikes, but they sound to be fast handling bikes capable of handling a handlebar bag and I'm quite interested. I don't think that the Calfee Adventure bikes have the same low trail geometry as a true rando bike does.


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## Triggsie (Sep 19, 2011)

Surly Cross-Check? It's not a "road" bike but fits 40s for sure.


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## Henry Chinaski (Feb 3, 2004)

Peter P. said:


> The Soulcraft Dirtbomb.
> 
> I own a Soulcraft Royale and have nothing but good things to say about Soulcraft, builder Sean Walling, and my Soulcraft Royale.


Sean is building me a "Grasshopper." Will have plenty of clearance for fat road tires with long reach brakes (ordered the Velo Orange Grand Cru Long Reach brakes). Currently my Surly Cross Check has 700 x 33 Jack Browns with fenders--with room for more.


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## SantaCruz (Mar 22, 2002)

Sounds like a custom.
You want - high end road bike, but tires wider than any CX rider would need; a bike that qualifies as a Master's race roadie, but BB drop beyond most tourers. A confusing, perhaps conflicting set of requirements. Maybe a high-end hybrid (rim brakes) with drop handlebars and a second set of tubular wheels? Talk to a good builder about compromises. Or take a look at some of the bikes from NAHBS in recent years. 
NAHBS | North American Handmade Bicycle Show | #NAHBS

The Calfee recommendation is a good one as they can custom deliver your desires.


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## Peter P. (Dec 30, 2006)

SantaCruz said:


> Sounds like a custom.
> You want - high end road bike, but tires wider than any CX rider would need; a bike that qualifies as a Master's race roadie, but BB drop beyond most tourers. A confusing, perhaps conflicting set of requirements.


My sentiments exactly.


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## SantaCruz (Mar 22, 2002)

Fishman - I didn't see anyone ask the obvious question. 
Why 40s on a roadie? 
I can understand 40s. 
I can understand a fast-ish, but multi-purpose roadie? Not CX.
Just not on the same bike. 40s are not high pressure tires, mostly soft.


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## fishman473 (Aug 2, 2004)

I just want one bike to 'rule them all'. Currently I have a monster cross bike that I had intended for a lot of things, but in reality gets ridden on gravel about 6-8 times a year and maybe 2-3 CX races a year. I have a racy road bike, but it only fits 25c tires and I'd like to move up to 28c Grand Bois tires for pavement.

So basically I want a straight up fast road bike that I can swap wheels on and be ready to ride/race gravel, or do a CX race without having an additional bike that hangs on a hook most of the time. I need to simplify my life.

Lower pressure, higher volume tires are faster and more comfortable, even for hard pavement. I'd definitely be running 30-40psi when on the big ~40c tires (from past experience).

I'm actually finding a couple bikes that are targeted towards this new category. I'll post up a table I'm putting together after work today.


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## bikerjulio (Jan 19, 2010)

I use my cross bike with the 40mm Clement tires when I'm in England. On it I'm able to ride on roads and trails equally, and there's lots of trails there, with a great variety of surfaces. They are marked 50psi minimum and I've been running them at 45F and 50R.

What surprised me was how well these tires roll on the road. I don't really feel that I'm giving up too much at all.


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## Henry Chinaski (Feb 3, 2004)

Here's what Salsa offers

up to 35

Warbird | Bikes | Salsa Cycles

up to 42

Vaya | Bikes | Salsa Cycles


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## SantaCruz (Mar 22, 2002)

Co-Motion is another company that offers a wide range of drop handlebar bikes. They have adventure and expedition type frames in their line-up as well as roadies, CX, etc. I was going to recommend a specific model but having a bit of trouble with my connection today so here is a link to Co-Motion's line of single bikes.

Co-Motion Cycles

Years ago, I would have rated their customer service and response times as 'excellent', when I bought a tandem.

edit: you do realize that there is no 'one bike to rule them all' when you want race worthy roadie + 40mm capability. But good luck - May the Force be with You. 

Keep us advised of your choice. I'm gonna guess that you migrate toward a gravel grinder and give up the 40s for a 35mm max; with a 2nd set of fast tubular wheels


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## wgscott (Jul 14, 2013)

My Caletti does. http://forums.roadbikereview.com/custom-builders/my-caletti-329795.html

It has 35s on it currently, but there is plenty of room to spare.

I find that 35mm is fine for rather rough fire trails in Santa Cruz, and I am kind of a wuss about such things.


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## Richard L (Jun 16, 2014)

This might work, although the increased trail might be a problem.

Cross Classic ? Cielo Cycles

There's also a Cielo Cross Racer shown on the website, but it might only handle 35mm tires, and I couldn't open the geometry info.


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## Rokh On (Oct 30, 2011)

Have you checked out Volagi? A Volagi with an Ignite VL wheeset might be what you are looking for


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## SantaCruz (Mar 22, 2002)

fishman473 said:


> . Lower pressure, higher volume tires are faster and more comfortable, even for hard pavement. I'd definitely be running 30-40psi when on the big ~40c tires (from past experience).


I think you may be operating under a false impression (or maybe I am).
The idea of bigger tires resulting in lower rolling resistance has its' limitations. I think the first studies were done for race level road bikes - when moving from high pressure 19-21mm to a lower pressure 23-25mm tire (but still +/- 100psi). The results indicated that for race roadies wider tires had lower rolling resistance. Further studies indicated that even 28mm tires might have lower rolling resistance on some surfaces; ie rough surfaces, where the larger tire absorbs the bump rather than the narrower, higher pressure tire 'bouncing off' the rough road surface. 

However, this principle of wider = lower rolling resistance does not extrapolate to 40mm tires for many reasons. Tire/tube weight, profile of the tire, tire pressure, etc. The people most interested in rolling resistance are ProTour teams and they seem to run 23/25s or for races with pave 28/30s. Cyclocross racers alternate tires based on course conditions more than rolling resistance considerations. 

If my above info is inaccurate, someone please point to a real world (not theoretical) study with tires available today, proving that 32mm and above tires have lower rolling resistance than 23s, 25s or 28s.
edit: comfort for your touch points should be assured by a 35mm tire. Wider is just more cushy, unless you are a very large/heavy rider. Or unless your off-road experiences are on true mountain bike trails.


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## velodog (Sep 26, 2007)

Here's a blog that touches on real world study...

Tires: How Wide is too Wide? | Off The Beaten Path


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## Camilo (Jun 23, 2007)

velodog said:


> Boulder bicycle builds a bike, the "Road Sport" that'll take 30mm tires. I realize you asked about 40mm tires but 30's are bigger than 23's.
> 
> Boulder Bicycle Road Sport Overview and Pricing
> 
> Rene Herse Bicycles


Doesn't just about every cross bike take at least 32's? My Jamis Nova Pro frame takes 32's with fenders, which leads me to think it would take one size larger without fenders. Probably not 40's but definitely something larger than 32.

For what it's worth - and only the OP can figure out what is really needed - I ride very rough gravel roads and trails with my 32's and it's a very reasonable ride.



fishman473 said:


> I just want one bike to 'rule them all'. Currently I have a monster cross bike that I had intended for a lot of things, but in reality gets ridden on gravel about 6-8 times a year and maybe 2-3 CX races a year. I have a racy road bike, but it only fits 25c tires and I'd like to move up to 28c Grand Bois tires for pavement.
> 
> So basically I want a straight up fast road bike that I can swap wheels on and be ready to ride/race gravel, or do a CX race without having an additional bike that hangs on a hook most of the time. I need to simplify my life.
> 
> ...


Aw, just resign yourself to having more than one bike! You're obviously a guy who knows what various bikes do and don't do, and already own two. Get a third. You know that you won't be able to really get any bike to be a fun, fast, lightweight "racy" road bike unless that's what it is. Changing wheels is good, but doesn't change the frame and set up. If a person REALLY needs to limit to a single bike sure, but I don't think you're that guy!

Now, to achieve that 28mm tire, why not do that on your cross bike? If you really don't want three bikes - use the cross bike with two sets of wheels to make a 28mm road-ish bike and get your more heavy duty fat tired bike for that purpose.


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## velodog (Sep 26, 2007)

Camilo said:


> Doesn't just about every cross bike take at least 32's? My Jamis Nova Pro frame takes 32's with fenders, which leads me to think it would take one size larger without fenders. Probably not 40's but definitely something larger than 32.
> 
> For what it's worth - and only the OP can figure out what is really needed - I ride very rough gravel roads and trails with my 32's and it's a very reasonable ride.


The OP already owns a cross bike, if I read correctly, and that's why I posted the link to Boulder Bicycle, which is a road bike. Like you said, only he can decide what he wants.

Speaking for myself, I'd go with a low trail 650b rando bike.


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## SantaCruz (Mar 22, 2002)

velodog said:


> Here's a blog that touches on real world study...
> 
> Tires: How Wide is too Wide? | Off The Beaten Path


Good article. 
The only paragraph I would question is this:
"What about even wider tires? Our on-the-road experience suggests that even 42 mm-wide tires do not roll slower than 25 mm tires (above), but without rigorous testing under controlled conditions, we can not say for sure. We hope to test this soon."

I guess it would depend on the pressure in the 42mm. I have zero experience beyond 35mm on a road/CX bike. What tire pressures can be run on 40+mm tires on the market today?

If I were riding on rumble strips with any regularity I would have front suspension and 50+mm tires.


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## fishman473 (Aug 2, 2004)

To clear a couple things up:

- Actually, I already have 8 bikes. Its too much fuss having this many bikes not enough riding. The whole N+1 thing should be modified with a term that accounts for space in ones basement or the inverse of hours worked per week.

- Pavé is one thing, but gravel is loose and soft. From several years of gravel experience my friends and I have gravitated to the wider tires 40c or a little over. Personally I like semi-slicks (currently on Conti. Cyclross Speed 42c) but I've got several friends that love the Clement MSO 40c tires. You don't loose much speed on smooth pavement, or smooth gravel for that matter, but you gain a lot with the wider tires in freshly graded gravel, sandy loose bits, wet-muddy senctions and even just faster rolling when the gravel is smooth and soft.

- my MONSTERCROSS bike is a bit of a kludge. No, its a lot of a kludge. Its a "cheap" Chinese-made titanium hardtail mountain bike with drop bars and a rigid fork. The top tube is way to long for drop bars, and the steer tube is too tall. So I have a 50mm stem with 25-degree rise flipped over on the bike... I've got it as close as I can but it just doesn't fit right for a road bike. Plus its pretty flexy being a lightweight, and mediocre design. The original idea was that I'd race it for endurance MTB races, cyclocross and gravel were secondary uses... but I've been too busy with work and family to train and race 12 hour / 100 mile races for the past couple years. Even CX races are a strain on my time, so the bike collects dust most of the time.


- I'm really leaning towards a performance oriented carbon fiber or titanium bike. I love (all 5 of) my steel bikes but they just don't have the zip of my CF road bike. Camilo, I get your point, I'm just hoping that the few performance options available that fit wider tires might do.

- My road bike is a 2007 Scwhinn Peleton LTD. This is a CF bike that, like many other brands, Schwinn just picked out a catalog from a Chinese factory to have designed and built for them. Despite this, I've been really impressed with this bike and really happy with it. I'm hoping if I get a newer bike with better design and build quality it can retain much of what I like about my Schwinn, but offer me the simplicity of one bike and two wheelsets (four rings?) to rule them all.

- lastly, I have more than enough parts to put a new bike together, so I'm really just looking for a frame, and hopefully selling off my existing 2 frames, 1 wheel set and 1 set each of various other components will help defer the cost of a new bike.


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## fishman473 (Aug 2, 2004)

Here is the chart I came up with of performance oriented road bikes that fit larger tires. Bikes I'm considering are in Green, bike I own and can use as a baseline are in yellow, and I threw in a range of bikes from local giant Trek for comparison, since they have bike models across a range that allow for meaningful comparison:










*Looking at the models: *

I've always druled over Dean and Lightspeed bikes. Can anyone tell me if a well-designed titanium bike can match the out-of-the-saddle zip of a carbon fiber bike?

The GT Grade: I can't find anything saying they fit more than 35c, or that they are available as a frame only. That rules them out for me, but they are getting some really good reviews at various sites, so that makes me feel like my racy-one-bike-to-rule-them-all idea isn't so crazy.

The Calfee is a little expensive, plus I'd like to stick to 700c no matter the tire size since I already have 2 disc compatible 700c wheel sets.

The Salsa Warbird, I dunno, something has turned me off of this bike and I can't get over it. Also, its not clear if they are offering it as a frame only anymore.

So that leaves me focusing on the Norco Search and Volagi Liscio. Rokh On, I'm glad you brought up Volagi since I remember hearing about them a couple years ago and had forgotten about them til you brought it up.

We have a local dealer for Volagi, but its not clear if the Liscio will fit 40c tires, the other two models they offer both list tire clearance as 40 and 42c, not sure why they don't list the clearance on the Liscio.

*Looking at the frame numbers:*

I guess BB drop isn't as big a deal as I thought it was. My Bruce Gordon has the highest BB of them all, and I would consider it the pinnacle of an all day comfortable and stable bike. I still think at least a 75mm BB drop would be ideal to sit the rider lower in the bike overall, but perhaps 5-10mm here doesn't really effect handling much.

HT angles for these bikes seems to range from 70-72. Seeing as my BG is a 72 and my pretty darn stable Schwinn is 72.5 I'm not too focused on this number.

Stack on the other hand might be limiting for some bikes. My Schwinn has been professionally fit for me and I consider my position on that bike a gold standard. Best I can measure, the stack is 533mm, and then I have 30mm of headset and spacers above that. So that might be equivalent of ~563mm with a zero stack headset. This is right about where the 53cm Norco Search is at. But for most other frames I'd have to find a -10 or -15 degree stem, and even that might not be enough to get me 'road low' on most bikes. This is really odd to me, I know these bikes are designed for a bit more upright stance, but I am definitely not one to 'slam that stem' either; I've got short legs and short arms so my bars are pretty high relative to many riders.

Finally, looking at the Trek frames, I'm kind of surprised by many numbers. The endurance-road Domone stack height is a full 5cm higher than the road race oriented Emonde. The CX Boone is actually 1cm lower than the Domane. I couldn't in any situation imagine wanting bars higher for road riding then for CX riding. 

The BB drop on the Boone is only 2mm shorter than the Emonde and Touring, but the Domane gets a full 80mm drop. Also, the HT angle is the same as my Bruce Gordon, the Norco and the Litespeed, and the chain stay length (which it shares with the Domane) is right in there too. To me this suggests that some CX bikes might not be a bad choice for the purpose I am considering. Kind of makes me wonder how other disk CX bikes might compare. I've always had the impression that CX bikes were twitchy, with high bottom brackets.


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## Henry Chinaski (Feb 3, 2004)

fishman473 said:


> I've always had the impression that CX bikes were twitchy, with high bottom brackets.


Most cross bikes are pretty stable. And I think the high bb thing is a leftover from the days when cross was raced with toe clips--didn't want them to drag in the mud. And/or people who ride more technical stuff and don't want to bash pedals on rocks, etc. Seems like you have a pretty specific desires, though. Why not just go custom? The Bruce Gordon should hold you pretty good in the meantime.


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## fishman473 (Aug 2, 2004)

Just found the Jamis Renegade today. Looks like a winner to me, almost the exact same fit as my current road bike.

But available as frame-only?


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## fishman473 (Aug 2, 2004)

Don't have time to read this now, but it looks like this article covers a few more options:

Interbike: Seven new gravel grinding road bikes | Road Bike News, Reviews, and Photos


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## GRAVELBIKE (Sep 16, 2011)

If you need more info on that particular Volagi, let me know and I'll get in touch with my contact there.


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## fishman473 (Aug 2, 2004)

I would love to know what the tire clearance is on the Liscio.


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## GRAVELBIKE (Sep 16, 2011)

fishman473 said:


> I would love to know what the tire clearance is on the Liscio.


700 x 28 for the Liscio, and 700 x 42 for the Viaje, according to Volagi.


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## Lelandjt (Sep 11, 2008)

Sounds like perusing cross bikes till you find the one with the slackest headtube and lowest BB will get you what you want. Maybe post that geometry question in the cross forum.


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## GRAVELBIKE (Sep 16, 2011)

Have you looked at the Foundry Auger?


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## kiwisimon (Oct 30, 2002)

GRAVELBIKE said:


> 700 x 42 for the *Viaje*, according to Volagi.


Is that a lady's bike?


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