# Learning the 585



## Gnarly 928 (Nov 19, 2005)

After a few weeks on my new ride, I am loving it still. Perhaps 650 miles and 30k vertical climbing, so far with one HC/TT. I really am growing confident on the descents, hopefully not 'over-confident' .The 585 is such a great descender that it just lulls you into not paying much attention to your actual speed downhill. I've found myself going quite fast while fussing about with water bottles or clicking my computer...No matter how 'safe' the 585 might make one feel going downhill at a high rate of speed, you are still on tires about the size of your finger, and there are unexpected, unanticipated hazzards that you can encounter..The 585 can make your forget that..

Uphill, there isn't *any* feel of 'lost' power due to frame flex. None. I can feel the difference from my last bike's more rearward climbing position when I come out of the saddle (easier, smoother transition from seated to standing) and to a lesser degree when climbing off the saddle. I am going to try moving myself back a little with the seat post and stem, looking to experiment.

A few very minor glitches that don't affect the ride, but bug me a little: Three times now I've had everything apart to rid myself of minor 'creaks'..It goes quietly for a few rides, then starts back into it..I'll probably find the right mix of components, eventually, to eliminate this annoying tendency, but I've not had this problem before on any other frame. I've used the identical components in various combos before, on other bikes, and have made them run quietly, "right out of the box".. I also find the 585's unique cable guide set up kinda....dumb, I guess you could say. What's the point? It doesn't do anything better for the bike and in fact, it makes keeping the cables and the Shimano Dura Ace components properly adjusted a pain..A bad idea, in my limited time on the bike, it's bugged me often. Also minor but; When installing the rear wheels, you must orient the QR skewer "just so' in order to clear the end of the left chainstay. Just one or two mms shorter, or perhaps a slight bevel of the chainstay would have given sufficient clearance for the QRs and the dropouts so that during a wheel swap you could get it done quickly and surely without clearance 'issues'.

All in all, a 'stellar' ride, though. I'll get the creaking eliminated, change the dorky cable guide system and find a QR or modify my Zipp ones to fit without worry..But in the mean time, I love the bike..Those minor glitches take it from a solid "10" to a "9.98" is all.
Don Hanson


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## lemonlime (Sep 24, 2003)

*My Thoughts*

I haven't had a chance to do any long descending on my 585, which I've had since June 1st or so, but I've noticed the same thing on the climbing. Getting out of the saddle is easier, but I do feel like I'm leaning a bit more over the front end than my old bike. Then again, I'm running a 1cm longer stem than I do on my 56cm Cannondale. (My Look is a 55 cm.)

I had issues initially with my headset making noise. My LBS worked on it a bit, fixed for a few days, and then back to the noise. Finally, I took it all apart myself, cleaned it and then liberally applied grease to everything, including the carbon spacers. When I put it all back together there was no squeak, but a strange, intermittent clicking still from the front end. I took the stem apart and cleaned and greased the bar where it contacts the stem and the stem faceplate and haven't had an issue since then. I'm keeping my fingers crossed and knocking on wood every chance I get - I HATE a noisy bike.

Not sure what you're talking about the cable routing. I don't have any problem with my DA stuff. I've also noticed about the chainstays/QR issue. I'm glad I don't have to remove the rear wheel everytime I put the bike on a rack.

All in all, this is the best bike I've had out of two Cervelos and two Cannondales. I'm building an older Orbea now to be the race bike while the Cannondale will be reserved for rain/commutes/trainer duty. I couldn't bear the thought of throwing the Look down the road in a crash.


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## Gnarly 928 (Nov 19, 2005)

*More on the 585's cable routing nonsense*



lemonlime said:


> I HATE a noisy bike.
> 
> Not sure what you're talking about the cable routing. I don't have any problem with my DA stuff. I've also noticed about the chainstays/QR issue. I'm glad I don't have to remove the rear wheel everytime I put the bike on a rack.
> I couldn't bear the thought of throwing the Look down the road in a crash.


 The cable routing thing is: Look has those odd-ball little guides attached to the sides of the headtube that the shifter cables pass through before they get to the stops on the downtube. I guess those are there to keep the cables from scraping the paint or something. The stops on the downtubes have no provision (or room) to put any kinda tensioning device, like seems to be normal on most bikes. So, you either must use an inline cable tensioner or do without and adjust the tension at the derailuers (at least for Dura Ace) I hate those generic aftermarket inline tensioners, which are ugly, and are made to install up there in the cables near the brake hoods. What the heck is wrong with just the normal barrel adjusters on the downtube? What kinda "improvment" was Look looking to make? I'd rather have some rub marks on the headtube eventually than have those tacky extra guides there and be forced to use the inline barrel adjusters out front of the bars, too. I often change wheels and sometimes flat in races..you sometimes need a little "from the saddle" control over cable tension to adapt your gearchanges to a different wheel. 

I've managed to finesse some inline adjusters into the space between Look's headtube cosmetic guides and their 'way under the' downtube cable stops, but they are awkward to reach and use there. At least I don't have them hanging off the cables right out front of the bike..I guess I'm just supposed to get used to looking at inline cable adjusters..but I would rather have em in the normal spot, on the frame. Also, the inline adjusters often don't work properly with only one hand..you sometimes have to hold the cable and turn the adjuster...not cool when you are trying to catch back after a flat or a crash..

I have a DeRosa Dual that I'll be using for Crits most of the time..Though I bet I won't stick to that resolve..It will be hard to NOT use the Look, it's such a great ride...

Don Hanson


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## bedazzle410 (Sep 26, 2005)

I have had no problem with my dura-ace coming out of adjustment once the cables streched out. I kinda like the Look set up. You have the adjuster on the rear derailer to adjust which is the one that normally needs adjustment. My front derailer stays in adjustment once I set it up correctly. The bike shops for me never get it just right. I noticed that Cervelo and I am sure a few others have no front adjusters. I so far with about 350 miles on my 585 am really enjoing the bike. 
Bob


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## jimbonnet (May 9, 2005)

bedazzle410 said:


> I have had no problem with my dura-ace coming out of adjustment once the cables streched out. I kinda like the Look set up. You have the adjuster on the rear derailer to adjust which is the one that normally needs adjustment. My front derailer stays in adjustment once I set it up correctly. The bike shops for me never get it just right. I noticed that Cervelo and I am sure a few others have no front adjusters. I so far with about 350 miles on my 585 am really enjoing the bike.
> Bob



I'll second that. my d/a 10 equipped 585 never came out of adjustment once it was adjusted properly.

those little cable guides on the headtube were sweet. of course the 595 I have hanging in the garage is even sweeeeter.

==jim


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## bedazzle410 (Sep 26, 2005)

I should'nt ask this question because I want a new frame but what the hell. What do you feel is the difference in ride between the 585 and 595.


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## lemonlime (Sep 24, 2003)

Gnarly 928 said:


> The cable routing thing is: Look has those odd-ball little guides attached to the sides of the headtube that the shifter cables pass through before they get to the stops on the downtube. I guess those are there to keep the cables from scraping the paint or something. The stops on the downtubes have no provision (or room) to put any kinda tensioning device, like seems to be normal on most bikes. So, you either must use an inline cable tensioner or do without and adjust the tension at the derailuers (at least for Dura Ace) I hate those generic aftermarket inline tensioners, which are ugly, and are made to install up there in the cables near the brake hoods. What the heck is wrong with just the normal barrel adjusters on the downtube? What kinda "improvment" was Look looking to make? I'd rather have some rub marks on the headtube eventually than have those tacky extra guides there and be forced to use the inline barrel adjusters out front of the bars, too. I often change wheels and sometimes flat in races..you sometimes need a little "from the saddle" control over cable tension to adapt your gearchanges to a different wheel.
> 
> I've managed to finesse some inline adjusters into the space between Look's headtube cosmetic guides and their 'way under the' downtube cable stops, but they are awkward to reach and use there. At least I don't have them hanging off the cables right out front of the bike..I guess I'm just supposed to get used to looking at inline cable adjusters..but I would rather have em in the normal spot, on the frame. Also, the inline adjusters often don't work properly with only one hand..you sometimes have to hold the cable and turn the adjuster...not cool when you are trying to catch back after a flat or a crash..
> 
> ...


I did notice that, but never thought about putting a cable adjuster there. My Cannondale has the inline adjuster (03 Ultegra) that has never worked anyway so I'm glad the Look doesn't have them.

I'm building an Orbea now with D/A 10 and the shifters came with an inline gear indicator but no adjuster. The Orbea also has cable adjusters on the downtube. I've never had a problem with just using the adjuster at the derailleur, but I've also never had to do it in a race, which I suppose would be a pain in the ass. I guess I'll just use the same wheel setup for my spare wheels and not have to worry about it.


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## jimbonnet (May 9, 2005)

bedazzle410 said:


> I should'nt ask this question because I want a new frame but what the hell. What do you feel is the difference in ride between the 585 and 595.


Haven't built it yet so I can not say.

--jim


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## Gnarly 928 (Nov 19, 2005)

I could get by without the front derailuer cable adjuster. It's true that once the cables have seated the front stays pretty good. But the rear, on all the bikes I have ridden, needs adjusting. Sometimes just from normal wear to the der. parts or cable housing wear or even shifter wear. But all wheels aren't exactly standard. They can vary. When racing, you sometimes get someone else's spare wheel to use after a flat, or you get your bike out of the car and find your own race wheel has gone flat overnight or something, so you must stick on your spare just before a race or during your warm-up..It's handy to be able to fine tune your shifting, for different wheels, while riding the bike. If you install a spare wheel during a race and find it slipping a gear..and you have to get off to adjust it to function correctly, you may as well just turn around and go home...

If keeping up with other riders was not involved, yeah, no reason not to stop and use the barrel adjuster at the rear, I guess. But, why not include that from the saddle cable tension adjustment function, like most high end frames do? The little cosmetic guide-dealies weigh as much as adjusters, but do nothing..IMHO, Look lost their focus, there, ever so slightly, when they decided to do that little 'improvment'. Isn't the Look 585 all about "Keeping up with other riders" (or beating them?).On an otherwise perfect frame, I guess that is a minor flaw, and I can fix mine without much problem, but..Geeze, I hadda find something to whine about, eh? Hee hee.
Don Hanson


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## STLRoady (Mar 29, 2006)

I've got the same noise coming from the front end of my 585. I'll try pulling it apart this weekend and greasing it up as mentioned here. I'll post back if it works.

As for the adjustments, I've had no issues with my D/A setup needing tweaking after 750 miles.


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## JMac (Oct 23, 2005)

I test rode a 585 today, great ride and I am seriously considering buying it. But, it creaked too. Sounded to me like it was coming from the fork . . . I also can't stand a loud bike. I think this would drive me nuts. Sounds (no pun intended) like this is a common problem with this frame. . . FWIW, it was also an XL


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## bedazzle410 (Sep 26, 2005)

If ti creaked from the front fork it is likely that the front skewwer was not tight enough. My 585 when I do not have the front skewwer on my mavic Es wheels it will creak when I stand. Just tighten the skewwer and it goes away. great bike.


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## Gnarly 928 (Nov 19, 2005)

I should have posted this "follow-up" a bit sooner. I have a buncha more miles on the 585 and I have it pretty well dialed-in now. The minor glitches I mentioned are no longer there, and I've got the fit almost perfect now. 

The geometry angles and proportions must be a bit different from the Italian 'traditional' geometry I have on my DeRosas. I set up the Look to match the DeRosa Dual and it didn't feel 'right'. All the measurments were close between feet, hands and butt, but I still wasn't totally happy with the 'feel'. So I kept trading stem lengths, changing bars around, moving the saddle, etc and now it rides perfect. I ended up with the saddle further back, the bars much lower and I don't really know why, but it feels right. so so much for all the manufactures published angles and tables and measurments..If it feels right.

The creaking is totally gone. I went through the whole 'rigamarole' normal for stopping frame noises, just did it all, with care, when I finally had the components all sorted out. I also used dry graphite on all the carbon to carbon parts, like headset spacers and saddle post, etc. I think that did the trick, and I'll be doing that from now on with all new carbon frames..the graphite trick..I had some graphite powder left from a boat I built, but I think a good auto parts store would have it, too.

I did a climbing century last weekend. The Look was quite comfortable and pretty easy to get up the long long climb..20 miles long and about 3500 vert. And once on top, with some aero carbon rims, I was flying downhill..

Good bike, one of my favorites ever. 

Don Hanson


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## speedygonzalez2005 (May 22, 2005)

*Use Em' Or Loose Em'.....*



Gnarly 928 said:


> The cable routing thing is: Look has those odd-ball little guides attached to the sides of the headtube that the shifter cables pass through before they get to the stops on the downtube. I guess those are there to keep the cables from scraping the paint or something. The stops on the downtubes have no provision (or room) to put any kinda tensioning device, like seems to be normal on most bikes. So, you either must use an inline cable tensioner or do without and adjust the tension at the derailuers (at least for Dura Ace) I hate those generic aftermarket inline tensioners, which are ugly, and are made to install up there in the cables near the brake hoods. What the heck is wrong with just the normal barrel adjusters on the downtube? What kinda "improvment" was Look looking to make? I'd rather have some rub marks on the headtube eventually than have those tacky extra guides there and be forced to use the inline barrel adjusters out front of the bars, too. I often change wheels and sometimes flat in races..you sometimes need a little "from the saddle" control over cable tension to adapt your gearchanges to a different wheel.
> 
> I've managed to finesse some inline adjusters into the space between Look's headtube cosmetic guides and their 'way under the' downtube cable stops, but they are awkward to reach and use there.
> Don Hanson


I know this may be a silly question and may have been previously addressed but, why not remove them if they are not to your liking?

I removed a set from my 585 when I was routing the Nokon cables I added.I then added in-line adjusters much lower than would have been possible if the guides were still installed.

Removing the guides will leave a small screw hole visible but it is easily covered with some clear 3M tape.

I have since sold that frame so I cannot offer any photos of the finished bike.

For your consideration,
Speedy


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## Gnarly 928 (Nov 19, 2005)

*Sure, why not?*



speedygonzalez2005 said:


> I know this may be a silly question and may have been previously addressed but, why not remove them if they are not to your liking?
> 
> I removed a set from my 585 when I was routing the Nokon cables I added.I then added in-line adjusters much lower than would have been possible if the guides were still installed.
> 
> ...


 Yah, I probably could remove this "improvment" just like you did. You just don't expect to be modifying a new frame that has such a good rep as the Looks for being "practical, usable, rideable, etc etc." And, I had to look hard to find something to complain about on the 585. (smiley face) So, rather than going the direct route, like you did, and take the dealies off, I tried to work em into the bike..They sort of are OK now, but it is pretty awkward to turn the barrel adjusters way around under the downtube, and I often scare myself by fingering the tire inadvertantly.

I just sometimes wonder about stuff like this. Whats the point, eh? Did they do this on the 595 frame, too? Ever seen anyone else build bikes with that kinda widget on the headtube? Ya think that new 'seat-mast' is the next "re-invention of the wheel", or will that go away after a bit, too?
Don Hanson


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## mtnbkn (Sep 28, 2006)

*Headset Question*

I'm new to the integrated headset thing and want to know if I am suppose to not use the crown race and put the sealed bearing directly on the carbon fork. I have a new 585 that I am putting together tonight and am a little perplexed. 

thx
Dave


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## mtnbkn (Sep 28, 2006)

I did it. From what I read it appears that I leave out a few of the parts that came with the headset. I put the bearing on the fork (as the crown race). Bikes looking good. now if I can just figure out the compression thing and cut the fork right.....

Its going to be a long night.

Dave


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