# Legal at fault for right hook when going faster than traffic



## dwgranda (Sep 8, 2009)

Well, I finally had a bad crash. Broke a bone in my face and have road rash all over the place.

Now that I can walk around I need to find out the details for liability. I fully expect I'm going to get some finger wagging on here like I did in my last crash but I usually get some good info as well. I was passing cars that were on my left where they were just starting up from a stoplight, this line of cars was long probably 20-30 with alot of them still slowing down while those at the front began to go. One of the cars turned into a parking lot without signalling and nailed me about 1/2 block away from the light. As we all know these are dangerous situations and I'm always looking out for the turn signal or even the car that has the "smell" of turning right. I guess the smell detection method is not as foolproof as previously thought.

Does anyone have experience in who is going to be held liable here? I only heard briefly as I was being carried away that the cars had very little damage, but I have a lot more! My bike is at the police station (it LOOKED pretty good all things considering), if the driver is at fault can I go and get it or should I talk to some insurance first?

This was on El Camino Real ~3pm Sunday in Sunnyvale to give you an idea of the scene. Heavy, heavy traffic even for this area.


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## Dr_John (Oct 11, 2005)

Oh man. Sorry to hear. Sounds terrible. Heal quick.


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## erj549 (Jul 26, 2008)

Was there a bike lane to the right of the traffic lane? I'd say either way the car turning has the responsibility to check that the turn is free of pedestrians and cyclists. 

You can pick your bike up. I would immediately take detailed photos of the damage and maybe even get a detailed write up of repair costs from a reputable bike shop. 

Also get a copy of the police report, assuming one was completed (it probably was if you were carted away in an ambulance). Hopefully it will indicate the driver was at fault, which will make it much easier to be compensated by the driver's insurance company. 

Assuming there is a police report indicating the driver as being at fault, you go to their insurance company and demand compensation for your bike damages, medical costs, and some amount of compensation for inconvenience and suffering.


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## Vee (Jun 17, 2010)

My gut says you did wrong by passing cars. I personally wouldn't do that for fear of exactly what happened. However, I am unsure of the laws in California so I cannot comment on your legal responsibilities. Glad you ended up alright...


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## rickd530 (Mar 23, 2011)

First, really sorry that you crashed and ssustained injuries. Hope you heal fast. 

Crash... You have to remember, when on the road, you are a vehicle. If you were in a car, would your choice of going faster than traffic been okay? So here is my point of view, which really doesn't count because I do not have all of the info. Unsafe speed for conditions. The contributing factor is lack of turn signal, unsafe turning movement - on the vehicles part. But, I know that most accidents involving speed, usually go in favor of the vehicle in front...Sorry

Like erj549 said, the police report will state who is most at fault. It will also have the insurance carrier, a ton of pics etc, etc. So my opinion, or anyone else's on here is probably going to be wrong. 

get well


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## singlespeed.org (Feb 14, 2006)

I have looked at the rules of the road, and all I can say is that it is confusing.

The question above on whether there is a bike lane could be important. Passing on the right is generally considered a no no, but if you had a marked bike lane, I think there is less (or no) issue of this as you have your own lane.

California does apportion percentage responsibilities, so it looks at the actions of both sides. The fact that the car did not signal will assign at least partial blame to them. Downside, unless they admitted it to the cop or you have witnesses, it will be your word against theirs.

You may want to contact one of the lawyers who specialize in bicycle accidents. I think there are one or two that advertise in Cycle California. 

Also, you may want to brush up on bike law. Some basics on the San Francisco Bicycle Coalition website:
http://www.sfbike.org/?bikelaw


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## dwgranda (Sep 8, 2009)

Thanks for the comments so far. I hear you guys about passing on the right. I try to avoid it. I mentioned the location and conditions because it is hard to avoid it here sometimes. This is a major road (3 lanes in both directions) with a posted speed limit of I believe 35-40 and cars going faster if they can. No bike lane but lots of space (usually) between the cars and side of the road. In this case I was just starting to pass cars that were slowing down because of the light and in a split second they would have been passing me. 

The most useful comment I got on my last crash, which if you remember I posted a video from my helmet cam was: "Just don't ride there". I'm thinking the same thing applies here and the pain I'm currenly feeling will be a good reminder 

Still, the point of this thread is to find out more about the leagalese of the situation.


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## PoorCyclist (Oct 14, 2010)

I have had this same accident, but I was driving a car and ran into door of the car doing the right hook.
I was pulling over and plan to stop by the mailbox 30 feet away, the car in front in the last minute decided to hook hard right into the library driveway because it had almost missed it. It was entering the driveway on the British side.. skid marks shows but the insurance company didn't care.

It was ruled 100% my fault. "Failure to yield" .
I was not surprised, most of the time you collide something in front of you, it's like a rear ending incident. I am not sure if this applies different for a cyclist. 
I should not have been pulling over to the parking lane so soon, as at one point I have overlapped the other vehicle. 
The signal thing is a weak point, they could have said they signalled you just didn't see it.

Sorry about the crash and keep us updated


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## Drew Eckhardt (Nov 11, 2009)

rickd530 said:


> First, really sorry that you crashed and ssustained injuries. Hope you heal fast.
> 
> Crash... You have to remember, when on the road, you are a vehicle. If you were in a car, would your choice of going faster than traffic been okay?


Only if it was a very small car. Lane sharing is legal in California and done frequently by motorcyclists navigating heavy traffic.


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## mohair_chair (Oct 3, 2002)

dwgranda said:



> This was on El Camino Real ~3pm Sunday in Sunnyvale to give you an idea of the scene.


I would question your sanity based on this. Who rides El Camino???


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## erj549 (Jul 26, 2008)

dwgranda said:


> Thanks for the comments so far. I hear you guys about passing on the right. I try to avoid it. I mentioned the location and conditions because it is hard to avoid it here sometimes. This is a major road (3 lanes in both directions) with a posted speed limit of I believe 35-40 and cars going faster if they can. No bike lane but lots of space (usually) between the cars and side of the road. In this case I was just starting to pass cars that were slowing down because of the light and in a split second they would have been passing me.
> 
> The most useful comment I got on my last crash, which if you remember I posted a video from my helmet cam was: "Just don't ride there". I'm thinking the same thing applies here and the pain I'm currenly feeling will be a good reminder
> 
> Still, the point of this thread is to find out more about the leagalese of the situation.


I think your legal recourse will depend a lot on where the police report places blame. If it places fault on you, then you would have a very large uphill battle trying to get the person's insurance to pay for any of your damages. If the police report indicates the driver is at fault or some sort of split negligence, then you have a shot at getting some reimbursement. The insurance company is still going to try to get rid of you for as little money as possible, but if you play tough you could end up okay (that is, having your damages paid for).

I looked at that road on Google Street View, and it's a pretty strange setup with a huge shoulder for parking, but no marked parking space or bike lane. With that much room on the side of the lane, I don't think it's unreasonable to pass cars on the right side, but what makes sense does not necessarily equate with what's legally proper. 

My advice would be to get the police report and go from there. In the mean time, the insurance company may contact you to get a statement, and I don't think it would be a problem to give them your statement. In most cases the insurance company will use the police report as the majority factor in determining negligence, so the statement is just a supplementary source they use to piece together the events.

Lastly, take good pictures of all damage, to yourself and the bike.


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## ratpick (Jul 31, 2008)

Heal fast! Some input on the legality question below but as someone else suggested, the officer probably knows this best.

I pass cars in this situation when the traffic is stopped and when I'm pretty sure I won't get caught next to a car that doesn't know I'm there. Sometimes I mistime the lights and it goes green before I get to the front and the thought going through my mind for each car along side me is "did they see me? do they know I'm here".

I use my "smells like danger" senses too and this is a reminder to be extra cautious - people aren't always predictable.

On some intersections (say Industrial and Holly in San Carlos heading east), I'll go down between the two right lanes since the right-most lane goes to the on ramp. I know the intersection well so can usually judge whether I'll get to the front before the light changes. From the front I sprint off to beat cars to the bridge, knowing that by doing so I'm right in their line of sight. I judge it the safest way to cross that intersection and who doesn't like a sprint?

I have always wondered if it is actually legal to lane split on the right. I know lane splitting is ok for motorcycles if under 35 mph and certainly cars have no problem overtaking me even if I'm in their lane because there is no shoulder/bike lane. So it seems reasonable that I should be able to pass them. So with a bit of research I came upon a new law that came into effect Jan 1 this year (2011):



> SEC. 40. Section 21755 of the Vehicle Code is amended to read:
> 21755.
> (a) The driver of a vehicle may overtake and pass another vehicle upon the right only under conditions permitting that movement in safety. In no event shall that movement be made by driving off the paved or main-traveled portion of the roadway.
> (b) This section does not prohibit the use of a bicycle in a bicycle lane or on a shoulder.


More here.

Of interest is that this law came about from lobbying by the SFBC.. them, and the SVBC are probably worth sending a few spare coins.


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## dwgranda (Sep 8, 2009)

Thanks ratpick! That's good info about the law change.

I picked up my bike today. It looks practically pristine. Only damage AFAIK: Front skewer handle is sheared off, a groove all along the circumference of my front deep-v, seat is scratched up, handlebars aren't centered. No apparent damage to the frame (now, am I brave enough to ride it?.

Police report is still not ready.

So far this is the most damage:


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## paloaltorider (Jan 2, 2010)

dwgranda said:


> Thanks ratpick! That's good info about the law change.
> 
> I picked up my bike today. It looks practically pristine. Only damage AFAIK: Front skewer handle is sheared off, a groove all along the circumference of my front deep-v, seat is scratched up, handlebars aren't centered. No apparent damage to the frame (now, am I brave enough to ride it?.
> 
> ...


sorry about the fractured cheekbone. Do they have to plate?


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## ShaneW (Sep 6, 2008)

Ouch!!!!


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## HIPCHIP (Apr 23, 2009)

Traffic in front of you has the right of way, but there would be an other associated factor in that the driver of the car did not signal nor check their mirror before turning.


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## mr_132 (Apr 26, 2009)

My understanding is: If there is a bike lane and the driver crossed it, the driver is at fault. They are allowed to enter the bike lane 200 yards before an intersection to avoid this very thing. http://dmv.ca.gov/pubs/vctop/d11/vc21717.htm 

If you are all sharing the same lane, sorry dude, that's your fault. You need to behave the same as the other vehicles. 

Hope you feel better and patch up ok.


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## dwgranda (Sep 8, 2009)

mr_132 said:


> If you are all sharing the same lane, sorry dude, that's your fault. You need to behave the same as the other vehicles.


So what's your interpretation of the rule change that Ratpick pointed out?


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## dwgranda (Sep 8, 2009)

paloaltorider said:


> sorry about the fractured cheekbone. Do they have to plate?


They don't think so. It was described to me that they're going to go through an area around my temple to pop it out. Google "gillies temporal approach to reduce zygomatic fracture" for the gory details if so interested.


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## mr_132 (Apr 26, 2009)

I wasn't there and I haven't seen the road, so you just get my reasoning from the posts (I'm not a lawyer - just an IT manager so you get what you pay for  )..... The key bit for me in that line was "under conditions permitting that movement in safety". 

If the traffic was stationary and the light was red, I would say this is a condition to pass safely on the right as it would be reasonable to expect the cars could not make any maneuvers as they were in a stationary line. 

However, as the traffic was moving (starting off and slowing down) I would not say it was safe to pass on the right at this time due to the vehicles being in motion and able to make such a maneuver.


As I said, I'm not a lawyer (and I got hit in a bike lane by a Nissan Quest with the same maneuver) but that would be my interpretation.


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## mr_132 (Apr 26, 2009)

P.s I would suggest asking someone like the SF bike coalition, they'd know for certain. There's some docs and an email address here: http://www.sfbike.org/?bikelaw


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## dwgranda (Sep 8, 2009)

mr_132 said:


> I wasn't there and I haven't seen the road, so you just get my reasoning from the posts (I'm not a lawyer - just an IT manager so you get what you pay for  )..... The key bit for me in that line was "under conditions permitting that movement in safety".


I know. To me it seems that it's still open to interpretation - that's why I asked. Obviously by adding that, soley passing on the right in the shoulder is not against traffic regs. This is the only case I can think law makers would see a cyclist passing on the right in the shoulder. Almost every road the cars can go at least 25 so occasionally if you're a roadie really pushing it you might pass some traffic briefly outside of the stoplight situation. I can't believe that this is what they had in mind though. Interesting if it comes down to parsing the situation down as you said.

In your accident did you suffer any damages, or was anyone held liable?


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## HammerTime-TheOriginal (Mar 29, 2006)

You weren't able to turn into the parking lot on the inside of the car which hit you? If you're alert and there's room, that's the obvious thing to do in that situation. I've done it a couple of times when cars passed me and turned right right in front of me.


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## dwgranda (Sep 8, 2009)

Police report assigns blame to the driver. Surgery went well so far. Still can't open my mouth all the way but way better than before.


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