# 11 SR Drive Train Pinging or crunching



## getch (May 22, 2009)

I have a 11 SR grouppo and sometimes when i stop peddling then start again I get a loud sort of a pinging type noise. Can't feel anything through the drive train, it sounds metallic and driving me nuts. Any ideas?


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## C-40 (Feb 4, 2004)

*??*

What wheels/hub?


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## 19surf74 (Feb 1, 2009)

Pawl engagement! I get it at times as well.


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## getch (May 22, 2009)

Campy Shamal ultra 2 way wheels


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## C-40 (Feb 4, 2004)

*thoughts..*

Campy hubs shouldn't suffer from a pawl engagement problem unless they have a lot of use with no maintenance. If the hubs were Mavic, then it would be common. I have some Ksyriums that occasionally slip a notch with a loud ping, but I can feel it. A new cassette body, pawls and springs didn't fix the problem entirely.


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## getch (May 22, 2009)

This is from a brand new pair, less than 500 miles. Did it a bunch when I first road it, stopped and started again...


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## Guest (Dec 31, 2010)

I would be interested in the answer to this as well. I just built a frame with 2011 Record and Fulcrum racing zeros. I only have 3 rides on it so far but have experienced the same pinging sound.


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## malanb (Oct 26, 2009)

mm I do experience the same prob. shamal ultra 2 too. tought it was the cassette. new wheels. I did happen more at the begining


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## malanb (Oct 26, 2009)

only when i stop pedalling and resume


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## 19surf74 (Feb 1, 2009)

might be the wheels seating themselves?? Could be a number of things. Ride it a few 100 more miles or so then see if it is still happening!


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## Fignon's Barber (Mar 2, 2004)

2010 11sp chorus with eurus 2 way, also experience the occasional ping noise when I stop pedaling and resume.


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## Guest (Feb 15, 2011)

Just to follow up on this thread. We finally got some decent weather so I got a chance to put some more miles on these wheels. My pinging noise was coming from a pawl that was sticking. I don't know if the cold weather affected the grease or not but I disassembled everything, cleaned and reinstalled, no more pinging noise for me.


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## campagnoloneutron (Sep 15, 2005)

*...what chain?*

...what chain are you using and how is it joined?


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## malanb (Oct 26, 2009)

Record chain and pin. It stopped anyways.


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## David Loving (Jun 13, 2008)

clean the chain I'd guess.


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## malanb (Oct 26, 2009)

Record chain and pin. It stopped anyways.


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## malanb (Oct 26, 2009)

Record chain and pin. It stopped anyways.


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## malanb (Oct 26, 2009)

Record chain and pin. It stopped anyways.


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## malanb (Oct 26, 2009)

sorry. cellphone trouble


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## Maverick (Apr 29, 2004)

had the same problem with my previous Bora Ultra (sold), and now my current Shamal Ultra Tubeless, Hyperon Ultra Two clincher. 

all are basically new wheelsets, with less than 500km on them.
cleaned, regrease the pawls - same problem.
remove the grease and put some light oil, same problem as well. 

i gave up..

never had a problem with the DT240 hubs.


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## FrenchNago (Jan 1, 2011)

Maverick said:


> never had a problem with the DT240 hubs.


they rule............with older campy record hubs (minor weight penalty)


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## orange_julius (Jan 24, 2003)

Maverick said:


> had the same problem with my previous Bora Ultra (sold), and now my current Shamal Ultra Tubeless, Hyperon Ultra Two clincher.
> 
> all are basically new wheelsets, with less than 500km on them.
> cleaned, regrease the pawls - same problem.
> ...


To add another data point, I didn't have this problem with my Shamal Ultra (2010 vintage). Yet ironically, I had a small amount of pinging noise with a DT Swiss RR1450 wheelset, but it went away after I cleaned all the spokes and especially where the rear 2x spoking pattern cross into one another .... 

I did really like the DT Swiss wheelset, unfortunately it happened to not fit so well into the tight rear cluster of my frame.


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## Maverick (Apr 29, 2004)

thanks for sharing.

here's mine:
3 pairs of Campagnolo wheelsets (Bora Ultra, Shamal Ultra 2-way, Hyperon Ultra Two Clincher) = *same pinging problem*, remains unresolved.
the Shamal is the worst among the three wheelsets.


3 pairs of DT240 wheelsets (LW Std, Edge 1.45, Edge 1.65) = *zero problems*.

last but not least...

2 pairs of vintage Campagnolo Record level hubs/wheelset (Eurus Carbon 2005, silver Record 32 spokes hubset) = *zero problems*.


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## orange_julius (Jan 24, 2003)

Maverick said:


> thanks for sharing.
> 
> here's mine:
> 3 pairs of Campagnolo wheelsets (Bora Ultra, Shamal Ultra 2-way, Hyperon Ultra Two Clincher) = *same pinging problem*, remains unresolved.
> the Shamal is the worst among the three wheelsets.


Thanks for the info. Interesting that all those have the fancier ceramic bearings ... wonder if it's a cause for the pinging?


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## Maverick (Apr 29, 2004)

haha..
nope...the Bora Ultra (2007, pre Ultra Two) has standard stainless steel bearings, Shamal Ultra has the USB bearings which technically are simply hybrid bearings.

i guess the problem has something to do with the modern Campagnolo freehub bodies??:idea: 
perhaps lighter doesn't necessarily equals better  

anyway, the 240hubs are pretty much bullet proof IMHO.

cheers!


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## G**G (Dec 30, 2005)

This shouldn't be happening with high end Campag wheels. Are there any others who have had the same problem and resolved it? I am getting the pinging sound as well.


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## 19surf74 (Feb 1, 2009)

I'm telling you guys, it's pawl engagement! Reason for this to happen to brand new wheels, as opposed to wheels that have several thousand miles is due to the grease they use on the pawls upon assembly from the factory which is very thick. So, the pawls stick every once in a while due to the thick grease. If you take off the free hub, clean out the old grease and re-lube with a less viscous grease your problem will be solved. I have to say, I recently did this with my Dura-Ace hub/free hub cassette body and I haven't had any trouble. Just my $.02!


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## malanb (Oct 26, 2009)

yep is the grease. it will go away after some weeks of use.


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## Fignon's Barber (Mar 2, 2004)

ok, let me preface this: I was just told this on the tuesday nite ride by a very experienced and competent mechanic/racer who knows his stuff. The "pinging noise" occurred on the cooldown segment of the ride, just in front of me. This initiated a discussion with the said mechanic who indicated that the noise was actually due to a defective masterlink design in the 11 speed chain, and just that day he received a notice from his supplier that the new masterlink design is now available for the shop to order, with no time frame for delivery. I checked the campagnolo site, but no mention of the new masterlink. again, I cannot confirm this, but where there is smoke there is often fire.


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## orange_julius (Jan 24, 2003)

Fignon's Barber said:


> ok, let me preface this: I was just told this on the tuesday nite ride by a very experienced and competent mechanic/racer who knows his stuff. The "pinging noise" occurred on the cooldown segment of the ride, just in front of me. This initiated a discussion with the said mechanic who indicated that the noise was actually due to a defective masterlink design in the 11 speed chain, and just that day he received a notice from his supplier that the new masterlink design is now available for the shop to order, with no time frame for delivery. I checked the campagnolo site, but no mention of the new masterlink. again, I cannot confirm this, but where there is smoke there is often fire.


That's very interesting, thanks for sharing. I do very rarely feel as if the drivetrain skips "half a link" which I thought was due to my slothness in cleaning the chain and cassette. But thinking back, this started almost as soon as I installed a brand new Record/Chorus 11 mix in early 2010. So it shouldn't be about wear. Could it be that this is the same as what the OP is saying? 

I called it "half a link" because the amount of skip felt a lot less than when a cassette gets to old it skips an entire link.


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## FrenchNago (Jan 1, 2011)

*crap link*

try a link from KMC or another make (wipperman has a 11 out or coming and they are really good) and junk the Campag link thing which is a bunch of hockey to get you to buy their stuff..............


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## tom_h (May 6, 2008)

Fignon's Barber said:


> ok, let me preface this: I was just told this on the tuesday nite ride by a very experienced and competent mechanic/racer who knows his stuff. The "pinging noise" occurred on the cooldown segment of the ride, just in front of me. This initiated a discussion with the said mechanic who indicated that the noise was actually due to a defective masterlink design in the 11 speed chain, and just that day he received a notice from his supplier that the new masterlink design is now available for the shop to order, with no time frame for delivery. I checked the campagnolo site, but no mention of the new masterlink. again, I cannot confirm this, but where there is smoke there is often fire.


There is No "master link" in the chain. All the links are identical, and you just insert the 11sp field replaceable pin.


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## mriddle (Nov 16, 2005)

*Had the same problem...*

with a brand new pair of Shamals. If it happens when you resume pedaling under load check you prawl retention clip/spring. Mine was not properly installed at the factory and was deformed slightly. Based on this thread it sounds like Campy is having an issue.? Anyhow, cheap fix, the clips come in 5 packs for about $4. I posted something here back in December about Shamals clicking if you search you'll find it.

Not sure why you would want to use a non Campy link on your 11 speed chain. Chains cost $37 and the pins are $5 bucks (Ribble/Shiny Bikes).


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## mtbbmet (Apr 2, 2005)

IT'S THE PAWLS!!!!
nothing to do with the chain, the cassette, or anything specific to campy.
I have a set of Shamal Ultras 2ways that do it, with both DA7900, and Record. I have had Mavics that did it, I have had EA70's with DA7900 that did it, and a set of EC90's that did it with Chorus 10sp. I also have a set of Fulcrum 5's that do it with Centaur. Pretty much all wheels do it at some point in their lifecycle, be it when they are new or old.


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## Maverick (Apr 29, 2004)

have to agree with mtbbmet. 

all hubs with pawls (as for my case, all new Campagnolo wheelsets) have such issues.

as a comparison, zero pinging issues with ratchet systems (e.g DT Swiss 240 hubset)

IMHO nothing related to chain or cassettes.


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## Fignon's Barber (Mar 2, 2004)

tom_h said:


> There is No "master link" in the chain. All the links are identical, and you just insert the 11sp field replaceable pin.


campagnolo calls their system "ultra link cnre500". I believe the mechanic was referring to this. really not a great design, when you think about it: inserting a shorter pin that needs to be manually peened (smooshed) on the end in order to prevent the normal lateral flex of the chain from breaking it.
Sorry but I'm on a bit of a negative campy kick. Just tried to do a last minute adjustment on my 11 speed brakes, only to find half the fasteners on the calipers require allen wrench, the other half torx. WTF.


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## tom_h (May 6, 2008)

I have a very infrequent slip of a pawl on Shamal Ultra wheels (5K miles), when I re-apply pedal force after coasting. Happens maybe every couple of weeks. Not a big deal.

My Shimano freehub does it, too.


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## tom_h (May 6, 2008)

Fignon's Barber said:


> ...Sorry but I'm on a bit of a negative campy kick. Just tried to do a last minute adjustment on my 11 speed brakes, only to find half the fasteners on the calipers require allen wrench, the other half torx. WTF.


Well, Torx is superior for being resistant to "cam out" or rounding off the inside of the female hex socket. IIRC, they only use Torx on the caliper pads/blocks. I'd be happier if more Torx screws were used on a bike.

Anyway, quit griping and add a T25 wrench to your tool set ;-)


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## Gaear Grimsrud (Oct 18, 2010)

Fignon's Barber said:


> ok, let me preface this: I was just told this on the tuesday nite ride by a very experienced and competent mechanic/racer who knows his stuff. The "pinging noise" occurred on the cooldown segment of the ride, just in front of me. This initiated a discussion with the said mechanic who indicated that the noise was actually due to a defective masterlink design in the 11 speed chain, and just that day he received a notice from his supplier that the new masterlink design is now available for the shop to order, with no time frame for delivery. I checked the campagnolo site, but no mention of the new masterlink. again, I cannot confirm this, but where there is smoke there is often fire.


Hmm, interesting, thanks for the info.

I've been on Record 11 for a year, and from the beginning about once every 25-30 miles I'll get a loud clank/crack/snap sound coming from the crank area (I think). It sounds to me almost as if the chain weren't sitting on the rings or cogs properly, and sudden torque would make it "pop" into place. I've had the BB, cassette and chainring bolts checked for looseness, and everything looks fine. A bad pin design would jibe with by hunch about the problem; could be that every now and then I stop pedaling at just the right time to have the edge of the pin sit on top of a ramp, and when I start pedaling again the chain pops into place. The problem only comes up when I start after being more or less stopped and I stand on the pedals.

Look forward to hearing about a solution.

(But I think I'll have the hub overhauled just to eliminate the pawl theory.)


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## tom_h (May 6, 2008)

Gaear Grimsrud said:


> ...
> (But I think I'll have the hub overhauled just to eliminate the pawl theory.)


Just avoid using grease on the freehub pawls, that will likely lead to sticking & more clunking.
A heavier oil is better -- engine oil of no less than 30W viscosity.


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## FrenchNago (Jan 1, 2011)

Maverick said:


> have to agree with mtbbmet.
> 
> all hubs with pawls (as for my case, all new Campagnolo wheelsets) have such issues.
> 
> ...


Same here.......In our group rides we have the same problem with many campag wheel and hub users, and found a solution: morgan bleu campag grease: it is a very fine grease (campag type) we degrease the free-hub completely (as with industrial power degreaser or gas) then finger apply a thin coat of grease on the pawls and track and that's it.........seems to cure the problem in 90% of cases, in the 10% other cases a pawl usually doesn't return to its original place and slips gently sand it down with 800 grit and it usually works + grease..........


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## tom_h (May 6, 2008)

*Zipp freehubs*

FWIW, Zipp freehubs use a pawl, and their specific service instruction is: 

... _lubricate the pawls, pawl springs, and ratchet ring. To do so, use a synthetic_
_motor oil such as Mobil 1 10W-30. Apply 1-2 drops per pawl-enough to lightly coat them and ensure a smooth action. .... _
_Grease can be used in the ratchet and pawl area, but it must have an NLGI rating of 00, 0, or 1. _
_Do not use oils with tackifying additives, such as Phil Tenacious Oil, as these can_
_gum up the mechanism and cause the pawls to stick._ ...

IMO, synthetic oil is overkill -- the freehub is not going to see 400ºF or -40ºF ! 

Note that typical auto wheel bearing grease is far too thick, NLGI 2. Personally, I would just avoid any grease and use only oil.

Having said that, Shimano SIS "Special Grease" is an extremely light, white grease, perhaps similar to the "morgan bleu campag grease", if one's personal preference is to use grease.

I've used Shimano SIS Grease to lube Campy 11 shift cables with excellent results -- and we know how sensitive the 11sp rear derailleur is to excessive cable friction!​​​​​


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## Britchap (Dec 2, 2005)

My Fulcrum racing 3s do it with an Ultegra 10 drivetrain. Sticky pawls were the shop diagnosis, they pulled the hub, cleaned and relubed it but it still does it.It seems to get better the more you ride - disconcerting though, I went for Campy on my LBS recommendation and I kind of regret it.


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## rcharrette (Mar 27, 2007)

*It a pawl*

I have a set of Bora Ones and have the exact same symptom. Coming off coasting I pedal and "POW", just one time. I spoke with Campagnolo directly about this. Their answer was that the Freehub tends to be over greased at the factory due to anticipation of them sitting on warehouse shelves for long periods of time and that is causing it to "stick" a bit. They said it might settle by itself with miles or to remove it, clean out the grease and lightly oil. Clean and maintain annually after this.
I've not gotten around to pulling mine apart yet, just been living with it as it's only once or twice a ride I get it.


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## madonna (Dec 6, 2005)

rcharrette said:


> I have a set of Bora Ones and have the exact same symptom. Coming off coasting I pedal and "POW", just one time. I spoke with Campagnolo directly about this. Their answer was that the Freehub tends to be over greased at the factory due to anticipation of them sitting on warehouse shelves for long periods of time and that is causing it to "stick" a bit. They said it might settle by itself with miles or to remove it, clean out the grease and lightly oil. Clean and maintain annually after this.
> I've not gotten around to pulling mine apart yet, just been living with it as it's only once or twice a ride I get it.



Hi guys,

I had the same problem as mentioned above wonder how can this issue be resolved?


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## FrenchNago (Jan 1, 2011)

madonna said:


> Hi guys,
> 
> I had the same problem as mentioned above wonder how can this issue be resolved?


take it apart, degrease it thoroughly and regrease with light campagnolo specific grease (it is very light!!)


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