# Panaracer Flat Away



## redondoaveb (Jan 16, 2011)

Anyone tired the Panaracer Flat Away kevlar tire liners? Light at 25 grams. Just wondering how well they work and if they can be transferred to from tire to tire. 
View attachment 278340


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## tednugent (Apr 26, 2010)

looks like it has an adhesive backing on it. So transferring from tire to tire may be slightly harder to do.

Why not just get a tire that uses kevlar protection in the first place?


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## redondoaveb (Jan 16, 2011)

tednugent said:


> looks like it has an adhesive backing on it. So transferring from tire to tire may be slightly harder to do.
> 
> Why not just get a tire that uses kevlar protection in the first place?


I like the Schwalbe Ultremos ZX's that I'm currently using. If they had better puncture protection they would be the ultimate tire. I figure with the ultra light tubes that I'm using and the kevlar liners, weight would be under what a flat protection butyl tube (Forte- 265g) weighs and have good puncture protection (that is if they actually work).


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## GRAVELBIKE (Sep 16, 2011)

redondoaveb said:


> I like the Schwalbe Ultremos ZX's that I'm currently using. If they had better puncture protection they would be the ultimate tire. I figure with the ultra light tubes that I'm using and the kevlar liners, weight would be under what a flat protection butyl tube (Forte- 265g) weighs and have good puncture protection (that is if they actually work).


The Schwalbe Duranos have very good puncture protection, but still ride nicely.


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## redondoaveb (Jan 16, 2011)

GRAVELBIKE said:


> The Schwalbe Duranos have very good puncture protection, but still ride nicely.


Thanks for the info on the Durano's but I'm looking for some insight on the liners.


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## Chocolatebike (Feb 28, 2011)

I used something similar a few years ago on a roadified MTB.
IIRC, the tyres were Schwalbe Stelvios and I didn't have many punctures. Whether it was down to the tyres, the liner or luck, I don't know.

My GF had Ultremo ZX on her bike. The rear one was a puncture magnet (5 in 700 miles) while the front was fine. She replaced the rear with an Ultremo ZX DD. So far so good.

I'd tend to go for more resistant tyres if I could, but I think the liners worked OK for me.


.


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## Roland44 (Mar 21, 2013)

tednugent said:


> looks like it has an adhesive backing on it. So transferring from tire to tire may be slightly harder to do.
> 
> Why not just get a tire that uses kevlar protection in the first place?


Because it's more expensive I guess...


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## tednugent (Apr 26, 2010)

Roland44 said:


> Because it's more expensive I guess...


The liner ain't free... you got to buy it also.

This video review looks good.





if the nail went through into is thumb.... it would probably be hilarious with lots of cursing. Looks like he was pushing hard also...


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## redondoaveb (Jan 16, 2011)

Roland44 said:


> Because it's more expensive I guess...


I guess you haven't priced Ultremo ZX tires recently. No, it has nothing to do with expense. It's because I want to ride what tire I want but would still like to have some measure of puncture protection.


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## redondoaveb (Jan 16, 2011)

tednugent said:


> The liner ain't free... you got to buy it also.
> 
> This video review looks good.
> 
> ...


Thanks for posting the video. Looks promising. I think I'll have to be the guinea pig on this one. I think I'll give them a try.


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## redondoaveb (Jan 16, 2011)

Well, I purchased a couple of the Panaracer liners and decided to give Vittoria Open Corsa CX III's a try instead of the Schwalbe's. What a b!tch getting them on my Neuvation wheels. I'll let anyone interested know how they work out.


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## Dunbar (Aug 8, 2010)

redondoaveb said:


> It's because I want to ride what tire I want but would still like to have some measure of puncture protection.


FYI, tire liners do increase rolling resistance by as much as double. There's really no free lunch when it comes to puncture resistance.


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## redondoaveb (Jan 16, 2011)

Dunbar said:


> FYI, tire liners do increase rolling resistance by as much as double. There's really no free lunch when it comes to puncture resistance.


That's interesting. I'm curious how they increase rolling resistance.


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## Dunbar (Aug 8, 2010)

redondoaveb said:


> I'm curious how they increase rolling resistance.


By far the biggest contributing factor to rolling resistance is how soft/supple the tire casing is. By installing a tire liner you're, in effect, making the tire less supple. This is really no different than tougher tires incorporating some sort of puncture resistant layer in the tire that, generally, increases the rolling resistance.


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## redondoaveb (Jan 16, 2011)

Dunbar said:


> By far the biggest contributing factor to rolling resistance is how soft/supple the tire casing is. By installing a tire liner you're, in effect, making the tire less supple. This is really no different than tougher tires incorporating some sort of puncture resistant layer in the tire that, generally, increases the rolling resistance.


I rode today but was fighting a head wind all day. I know the wind slowed me down, not sure if the tires did. They did feel stiff but since this was the first ride on Vittoria's, I thought maybe I had too much pressure in them. On my next ride I'll lower tire pressure a bit and see how they feel. 

I'll have to get in a few rides with the liners and see if I can notice any increase in rolling resistance.

Thanks for the info.


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## froze (Sep 15, 2002)

I just did that test shown on the video today. I put a new 700 x 25c tire on the rear of my bike and put the Panaracer Flat Away liner in (just the rear tire got the liner not the front since most flats are in the rear and the front is fast and easy to fix a flat). After trimming the liner per the instructions (which cutting this liner is a real pain vs any other liner which should tell you something), I had a piece of scrap liner left so I got to thinking about testing it. I tried a tack and no good, it just bent the tack, so I put a small thin finishing nail into a thin piece of wood to use as a base and then tried to drive the nail through Panaracer Flat Away liner and I could not get the nail to penetrate the liner. 

I realize the first time I tried these liners they were tough because of the amount of work it took to cut it, but the nail thing sealed the deal, I know I'm not wasting my money on liners that don't work. Also these liners are only 28 grams, a plastic liner is at least 110 grams, so as an added bonus you're saving rotational weight.


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## MarkDn (Oct 22, 2013)

redondoaveb said:


> Anyone tired the Panaracer Flat Away kevlar tire liners? Light at 25 grams. Just wondering how well they work and if they can be transferred to from tire to tire.


I've commuted on Panaracer Flataway liners for the last 18 months, just had my first puncture. I've been using 25mm Michelin Pro4 Endurance tyres. A sharp 2" screw went straight through centre tread of the rear tyre, liner and all. But besides the screw, did the liners make a difference?

When I changed the tyre I had a close look at the liner and the tyre. The tyre was absolutely covered in deep cuts and the liner had a number of dark patches on it. When I peeled back the liner, the dark patches corresponded with cuts that were visible on the inside of the tyre, presumably allowing water and grime to stain the liner. There were 8 distinct dark patches on the tyre liner.

So, I recon the liner saved me from at least 8 punctures and probably could have saved me from many more if it hadn’t been for the screw. Mind you, the tyre would have become so shredded that the liner would probably have become saturated with water every time it rained… better that than punctures though!

I won't be commuting without them from now on.


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## froze (Sep 15, 2002)

I recently cut my rear tire about 1/2 an inch that penetrated the tires cords which I didn't find the cut until I did my usual after ride inspection, which meant of course the tire didn't go flat. So I dismounted the tire and just like MarkOn I saw a larger darker spot on the Panaracer FlatAway liner and one very small on. I peeled off a small section of the liner and saw a 1/8th inch long cut on the inside of the tire so I booted the tire with a piece of Park Boot Patch and laid back down the FlatAway liner (I didn't bother looking at the small on from the inside). I inflated the tire then took some Super Glue I got at a hobby store (stronger stuff than the usual store bought super glues) and filled in the cut (which I have to reapply about every other ride). Been riding on that tire ever since. 

Those Panaracer FlatAway liners are about 75 to 85 grams lighter than a Mr Tuffy and they work far better. Supposedly they are one tire liner due to the adhesive strip on one side that keeps the liner in place while you install the tube instead of flopping around like Mr Tuffy and the such. But I was able to pull the liner out of a previous tire and install in the tire that eventually got the cut, and later was able to peel a small section off to fix the cut tire; I don't think that the liner will stick to more than two tires because the second tire it barely stuck.

I'm sold on them, I only use one liner on the rear tire, I don't bother using one on the front because most flats are on the rear. But if your commuting then use one in both tires.


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## NJBiker72 (Jul 9, 2011)

redondoaveb said:


> I guess you haven't priced Ultremo ZX tires recently. No, it has nothing to do with expense. It's because I want to ride what tire I want but would still like to have some measure of puncture protection.


The liner will change the ride quality. Probably not be very different from buying the tougher tire.


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## froze (Sep 15, 2002)

NJBiker72 said:


> The liner will change the ride quality. Probably not be very different from buying the tougher tire.


Two things:

1.) The Mr Tuffy liner changed the ride to a slightly harsher ride. 

2.) The FlatAway liner seemed to make it a bit more subtle of a ride. Why would that be? Not sure, other than the Mt tuffy is plastic while the FlatAway is a cloth. According to what I found out later from Panaracer the liner does indeed give the tire a slight cushion like effect and reduces pinch flats.

A tougher tire will only ride harsher, but it will help to reduce flats too. I use to ride on Specialized Armadillo tires, they were heavy back when I used them (they have since reduced the weight a bit), but the tire rode harsh until I figured out to reduce the PSI by 15 psi from what I normally rode, but they still felt harsher than normal tires and they were heavy and you could feel it. So why ride on two tires that weigh 450 grams each (or more depending on the tire) when you could use lighter tires of around 225 grams plus a 32 gram liner for a total of 257 grams each? And have the same flat protection of the heavier tire! Only downfall to the lighter tire and liner approach is that the heavier tire will last longer in the mileage department and the heavier tire will have a more robust sidewall. Yes, there are options and a person needs to select which one suits their needs.


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## NJBiker72 (Jul 9, 2011)

froze said:


> Two things:
> 
> 1.) The Mr Tuffy liner changed the ride to a slightly harsher ride.
> 
> ...


Interesting. Everything I had read was that the liner would basicslly turn the ra ier tire into the training tire. Kind of a worst of both worlds but different opinions are worth trying. 

I love the Maxxis Refuse for flat protection but a little less so for handling and resistance.


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## froze (Sep 15, 2002)

NJBiker72 said:


> Interesting. Everything I had read was that the liner would basicslly turn the ra ier tire into the training tire. Kind of a worst of both worlds but different opinions are worth trying.
> 
> I love the Maxxis Refuse for flat protection but a little less so for handling and resistance.


I actually like the feel of the FlatAway in the tire, I didn't like the feel of the Mr Tuffy.

You do have to find a balance between handling and flat resistance and how much in the way of flats are you willing to accept. If your commuting you may want to eliminate flats as much as possible since a flat could make you late for work and most bosses won't tolerate that for long before your fired. 

When I lived in Mojave Desert area where goatheads roamed freely I got real tired of getting between 15 t0 4 flats a week! I was commuting on the bike but it was my own business so no one cared if I came in late but I left 15 minutes earlier than I needed to so I wouldn't be late, but the biggest issue of goatheads wasn't so much the commute but just riding in general. So eventually I discovered the Specialized Armadillo All Condition tire and no more flats after that. I was willing to put up with the weight and feel of that tire though to get a very low flat outcome. Today I no longer live in that area and where I do flats are about 1 a month without a liner, with the liner I get may 2 a year and those are front flats where I don't put the liner. I'm more than willing to let a low flat occurrence happen and switch back to better handling, feeling, and lighter tires...exception...the touring bikes, I use heavier flat resistant tires AND the FlatAway liner because I don't want to deal with moving panniers and fenders because of a flat.


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## NJBiker72 (Jul 9, 2011)

froze said:


> I actually like the feel of the FlatAway in the tire, I didn't like the feel of the Mr Tuffy.
> 
> You do have to find a balance between handling and flat resistance and how much in the way of flats are you willing to accept. If your commuting you may want to eliminate flats as much as possible since a flat could make you late for work and most bosses won't tolerate that for long before your fired.
> 
> When I lived in Mojave Desert area where goatheads roamed freely I got real tired of getting between 15 t0 4 flats a week! I was commuting on the bike but it was my own business so no one cared if I came in late but I left 15 minutes earlier than I needed to so I wouldn't be late, but the biggest issue of goatheads wasn't so much the commute but just riding in general. So eventually I discovered the Specialized Armadillo All Condition tire and no more flats after that. I was willing to put up with the weight and feel of that tire though to get a very low flat outcome. Today I no longer live in that area and where I do flats are about 1 a month without a liner, with the liner I get may 2 a year and those are front flats where I don't put the liner. I'm more than willing to let a low flat occurrence happen and switch back to better handling, feeling, and lighter tires...exception...the touring bikes, I use heavier flat resistant tires AND the FlatAway liner because I don't want to deal with moving panniers and fenders because of a flat.



I have had my Maxxis for 3 years and no flats. Got a flat on my Panaracers on my rain bike and was glad to know I remembered how to change one.

I know I am cursing myself but the protection with these is fabulous.


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## froze (Sep 15, 2002)

NJBiker72 said:


> I have had my Maxxis for 3 years and no flats. Got a flat on my Panaracers on my rain bike and was glad to know I remembered how to change one.
> 
> I know I am cursing myself but the protection with these is fabulous.


I'm not sure if the Kenda and Maxxis brands are one of the same or just share the same manufacture with the same specs, because some of their tires share the same look. But I had and still have Kenda Konstrictors with no flat protection in them and went 4800 miles on one set with just one flat and only 3 small cuts and those cuts didn't show up till the tires had over 3800 miles. And the darn tires only weighed 215 grams. I have a Vittoria Rubino Pro Slick, and that tire only has 800 miles or so on it and it's all cut up including the one large one that the FlatAway liner protected the tube from flatting. And I can't tell the difference in handling between the supposedly "inferior" Kenda vs the supposedly "superior" Vittoria.

I've heard people say that Maxxis and Kenda tires are cheap tires, but I didn't have any problems with my Kenda's and loved them. I still have a couple of pairs on other bikes. In fact I have a set of Panaracer Stratus Sport tires that came on the new bike which I only using one on the front, the Vittoria is on the rear, but that tire has 1,230 miles on it and no cuts either. I think Kenda's Iron Cloak flat belt works great, Maxxis calls it Silkworm belt.


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## GRAVELBIKE (Sep 16, 2011)

Maxxis and Kenda are not the same company. I, personally, don't consider either brand cheap, as they make some very nice tires (some of which are my personal favorites).


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## froze (Sep 15, 2002)

GRAVELBIKE said:


> Maxxis and Kenda are not the same company. I, personally, don't consider either brand cheap, as they make some very nice tires (some of which are my personal favorites).


Maybe their not the same company, but their tires have a lot of similarity in looks and have had those similarities for years, so maybe they're a different company with the same manufacture? I think Maxxis has a larger line of models but there are some tires they sell that look just like the Kenda's.

I've heard people here on this forum call those tires cheap, but I'm with you on that, I liked my Kenda's and you like your Maxxis tires. I never tried Maxxis so I can't comment on them.


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## GRAVELBIKE (Sep 16, 2011)

Maxxis has ties to another company, but it's not Kenda.


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## Zachariah (Jan 29, 2009)

Been using Flat Away since 2007. It's light and indeed prevents punctures....however, the the tire(Schwalbe Ultremo ZX) feels somewhat "dead" with the liner inside. Also, the felt wears away after 1200 miles and then exposes the course Kevlar fabric, which after much internal friction - can wear away a hole in the tube. Baby powder helps....


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