# Time trial info for the Lance fans



## il sogno (Jul 15, 2002)

When your spot for the time trial comes up, the clock starts whether you are there or not. For the old timers, remember Pedro Delgado's late start at the 1989 Tour prologue? He arrived 2:40 late. The clock was already running and he just had to ride the entire Tour with that added 2:40 on his time. 

If Contador had arrived at the Annecy start gate 15 minutes late it's not like the clock would have started when he got there. He would already have been 15 minutes into his "time trial" and would have most likely been eliminated from the Tour that day for failing to come in under the time limitation.

Lance's antics with hijacking the Astana team car to pick up his baby-momma was not just a practical joke. It had real life consequences that could have led to Contador losing the Tour and the yellow jersey going to a rider on a competing team. 

Yes Lance, there is no "I" in team but there certainly is a "me" in there.


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## pretender (Sep 18, 2007)

offs.


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## California L33 (Jan 20, 2006)

il sogno said:


> When your spot for the time trial comes up, the clock starts whether you are there or not. For the old timers, remember Pedro Delgado's late start at the 1989 Tour prologue? He arrived 2:40 late. The clock was already running and he just had to ride the entire Tour with that added 2:40 on his time.
> 
> If Contador had arrived at the Annecy start gate 15 minutes late it's not like the clock would have started when he got there. He would already have been 15 minutes into his "time trial" and would have most likely been eliminated from the Tour that day for failing to come in under the time limitation.
> 
> ...


Was Alberto planning to drive the TT? Or did he hijack the car with AC's TT bike on it, or maybe all AC's shorts were in it? "I can not ride with little Alberto flapping in the wind!"- stamps foot for emphasis.


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## bahueh (May 11, 2004)

*Wtf...*



il sogno said:


> When your spot for the time trial comes up, the clock starts whether you are there or not. For the old timers, remember Pedro Delgado's late start at the 1989 Tour prologue? He arrived 2:40 late. The clock was already running and he just had to ride the entire Tour with that added 2:40 on his time.
> 
> If Contador had arrived at the Annecy start gate 15 minutes late it's not like the clock would have started when he got there. He would already have been 15 minutes into his "time trial" and would have most likely been eliminated from the Tour that day for failing to come in under the time limitation.
> 
> ...


are you talking about?


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## il sogno (Jul 15, 2002)

bahueh said:


> are you talking about?


Lance's hijacking the Astana team cars before the Annecy time trials making it so that Contador didn't have a ride to the TT.


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## Pinarel00 (Jul 23, 2006)

*He's talking about this...*

...Little gem of astory that the Lance Fanboys don't get on Twitter, or on the Lance Adoration networks Velonews or versus...

http://www.steephill.tv/2009/entries/contador-post-tdf-news-conference/

Tjis is the FUll English Language translations of Alberto's ENTIRE news conference that he originally did in Spanish when Velonews did the headline thet Contador did not like Lance...Its full of with full context and detail...Something you don't GET in TWITTER....

Also check out the comments made by Haimar Zubeldia on Contador being a good teammate in direct contrast to Lance...AND Zubeldia will ride for Lance next year so he is pretty objective...

The American english spekaing cycling media swings from Lance's Jock....Don't get bamboozled! The guy is as toxic as they get...

Cheers!


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## il sogno (Jul 15, 2002)

California L33 said:


> Was Alberto planning to drive the TT?


No but he needed a ride from the hotel to the TT.


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## il sogno (Jul 15, 2002)

Pinarel00 said:


> http://www.steephill.tv/2009/entries/contador-post-tdf-news-conference/


Thanks for that. Here's a quote from that web page.



> It happened on Thursday, a few hours before the Annecy ITT. Contador came downstairs to the entrance of the Palace of Menthon, the luxurious Astana hotel. The Tour was in play. He looked right, then left. Nobody, nothing. No Astana cars or support staff. Cold sweat. A time check. Where are they? The hotel is several kilometers from the start. There he was, the leader of the Tour, in flip-flops, bag in hand and alone. He went to the hall looking for an answer: Armstrong had ordered the staff to go pick up his wife, kids and friends to the airport.
> 
> Contador left his room last because he was the last one starting the ITT. Armstrong had managed to take away his means of transportation. The straw that broke the camel’s back. Steaming with anger. He phoned his brother Fran. He came to pick him up by car and took him to Annecy in his own vehicle. He left last and finished first. His best victory. In the ITT. In solitude. The same way he won his second tour.
> 
> Contador’s toughest climb was not recorded in images. It was narrated by others. It was fought in the hotel and the bus: during one stage, Armstrong sat his guests at the very back of the bus, right in Contador’s usual seat. One more provocation. Armstrong to the luxury suite. Contador to sleep with Paulinho, the only ally. Same deal during the entire tour. Mouth shut, listening to Armstrong’s jabs: “It doesn’t take a Nobel prize to figure out what happens with side winds”. Contador didn’t reply in the hotel. He did on the road. He attacked in the first mountain finish in Arcalis. Without permission from Bruyneel, Armstrong’s DS. That night the Astana hotel was a funeral. Red eyes from the Texan (anger? crying? not sure). The first cyclist that stood up to him. And he did it in silence."


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## Ventruck (Mar 9, 2009)

I'm not trying to hate anyone. I'll just applaud AC for getting over an extra hurdle. What a gangster.

I wouldn't be surprised if it's another false report just to publicize the tension between the two. For all we know, AC actually expected a separate ride from the team, But then again, how would I know?


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## bahueh (May 11, 2004)

*I don't read twitter...*



Pinarel00 said:


> ...Little gem of astory that the Lance Fanboys don't get on Twitter, or on the Lance Adoration networks Velonews or versus...
> 
> http://www.steephill.tv/2009/entries/contador-post-tdf-news-conference/
> 
> ...


and I know from first hand experience LA is a bit of a pr*ck...
I simply didn't know wtf she was talking about....


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## bahueh (May 11, 2004)

*you seem to know a lot...*



il sogno said:


> No but he needed a ride from the hotel to the TT.


were you actually there or just read these types of media reports?
there could have been a half-dozen reasons the cars were reportedly not there...thinking that one
guy ordered the entire support staff to hose their lead rider is a big suspicious...


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## Snakebitten (Jun 26, 2008)

This is sickening to read about for the second time. Im beginning to believe some of this negative stuff about Lance is true. Lance is turning out to be a real piece of work to me. Aside from his racing skills which I admired, he sounds like a spoilt child and a bully with these tactics. I dont blame AC for what he did in the race at all then. Back against the wall with the DS and team not fully behind you is a serious mess on its own. But to have Lance jeopardize 1st place by taking the car knowing MJ will need a ride is just downright maddening to me. That whole twitter "no I in team" is downright hypocritical for him to say knowing he almost jeopardized the team goals and its number 1 for egotistical reasons. Ive lost ALOT of respect for LA if this is indeed true. 

This really makes AC's win extra special to have overcome all that nonsense to still easily take the TDF. Three sides to a story hence my caveats.


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## OldEndicottHiway (Jul 16, 2007)

On a side note. The other day I was driving home and thinking about that hotel incident. I started LOL'ng at the thought of it. _Taking the riders and the consequences _out of the equation, it's just plain funny. In real life, not so funny, but the absurdity of it made me LOL. Sounds like a movie script.

Does that make me a horrible person?


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## Snakebitten (Jun 26, 2008)

OldEndicottHiway said:


> On a side note. The other day I was driving home and thinking about that hotel incident. I started LOL'ng at the thought of it. _Taking the riders and the consequences _out of the equation, it's just plain funny. In real life, not so funny, but the absurdity of it made me LOL. Sounds like a movie script.
> 
> Does that make me a horrible person?


Yeah the scenario is funny...AC in flip flops looking for a ride. lol....But damn it was a foul thing to do.


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## nims (Jul 7, 2009)

The whole hotel room thing sounds suspicious to me. The spanish media is quick to blame Lance for it. Astana has more than one car. How did the whole team get there? Was he expecting a car to remain for him? Or was that not even decided the day before. Did he not understand when to wake up to catch a ride? heck him, kloden, lance probaby should have been on the same car. They only had like 10 minutes difference total. 

I just don't get it. I really don't think JB would jeopardize the race like this either. Even if it was lances little gimmick. 

It just sounds a little too extreme. And I know you all want to bash the American media but you seem quick to support the Spanish media too which isn't any less biased towards their local rider. Trying to stay objective here.


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## JohnHemlock (Jul 15, 2006)

I have a feeling this is another one of those "print it whether it happened or not" stories. AC was guarded like Dick Cheney by gendarmerie, Astanese, etc. There is no way he would've got abandoned at that hotel. Which (apropos of nothing) I have had sex in, by the way!


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## OldEndicottHiway (Jul 16, 2007)

P.S. Sogno,

At face value and face value alone, (as there is waaayyy more to the whole LA/Cont thing than we are aware of) an entirely unprofessional, and mean spirited thing to do.

I could see it being done at a local, "who cares" race with a bunch of hacks, but in the TdF...? Not so. 

Again, there's so much we don't know. From both sides. It'll all come out in the wash. Truth has a way of doing so, eventually.


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## Mapei (Feb 3, 2004)

I agree OEH. I'm already casting the film. Aaron Eckhart playing Armstrong with his signature smarmy charm. Terry-Thomas playing Johan Bruyneel with gap-toothed glee.


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## OldEndicottHiway (Jul 16, 2007)

Mapei said:


> I agree OEH. I'm already casting the film. Terry-Thomas playing Johan Bruyneel with gap-toothed glee. Aaron Eckhart playing Armstrong with his signature smarmy charm.



But where do I fit in?

 


And oh yeah, great film fodder for sure.


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## OldEndicottHiway (Jul 16, 2007)

Snakebitten said:


> Yeah the scenario is funny...*AC in flip flops looking for a ride. lol...*.But damn it was a foul thing to do.



and Lance driving away..."take that, you skinny little effer!"


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## SwiftSolo (Jun 7, 2008)

So JB let Armstorng take all of the team cars knowing that he and Astana would likely lose the tour to Andy. Yes folks, that's real likely and just like JB! He loves to lose tours. You can always believe that these kinds of stories are worth all that you've paid for them. 

Did you hear about Bush bomding the ***** in New Orleans (after he bombed the World trade center)? Lance was most likely part of that!


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## Snakebitten (Jun 26, 2008)

SwiftSolo said:


> So JB let Armstorng take all of the team cars knowing that he and Astana would likely lose the tour to Andy. Yes folks, that's real likely and just like JB! He loves to lose tours. You can always believe that these kinds of stories are worth all that you've paid for them.
> 
> Did you hear about Bush bomding the ***** in New Orleans (after he bombed the World trade center)? Lance was most likely part of that!



Bush hates Lesbians?





 




OldEndicottHiway said:


> and Lance driving away..."take that, you skinny little effer!"


Bet ya AC will alway keep a bike at the hotel from now on in case of such an emergency. Especially if he shares the hotel with LA lol...Lance might puncture his new team car tires.


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## Mapei (Feb 3, 2004)

OldEndicottHiway said:


> But where do I fit in?
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Sorry, but there is no OEH in 'team.'


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## il sogno (Jul 15, 2002)

bahueh said:


> were you actually there or just read these types of media reports?
> there could have been a half-dozen reasons the cars were reportedly not there...thinking that one
> guy ordered the entire support staff to hose their lead rider is a big suspicious...


No. Were you there? Cause if you were you coulda offered Alberto a ride.


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## juswannaride (May 13, 2009)

I think that more went on behind the scenes then we will ever know. I think most of what the media has put out there is BS just to cause problems just like most of the threads complaining about LA. Im sure there was tension but in no way would JB take a chance of losing anything for any of his riders for LA's family to be picked up. That story could be all hype and BS to try and find a way to make LA look bad. I hate to say it but when I was in the mountainbiking scene I never heard any or other riders bashing anyone, and being a road cyclist now and seeing half the crap Ive read on these forms (not just about LA) has been completely tastless, Ive never in my life have seen so my individuals that love doing the samething argue, whine, and be so negative to each other in my life. And before someone gets smart with me and say well go back to mountainbiking I can't...$40,000 in doc bills is enough for me to not go back. But guys try to have respect for each other and fellow riders, and as a side note the media never tells the full truth on anything, they do a great job at making things seem worse than they are.


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## il sogno (Jul 15, 2002)

Ventruck said:


> I'm not trying to hate anyone. I'll just applaud AC for getting over an extra hurdle. What a gangster.
> 
> I wouldn't be surprised if it's another false report just to publicize the tension between the two. For all we know, AC actually expected a separate ride from the team, But then again, how would I know?


I wasn't exactly the biggest AC fan during the Tour but hearing about all the stuff he had to deal with has elevated him in my eyes. He's one tough hombre.


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## OldEndicottHiway (Jul 16, 2007)

Mapei said:


> Sorry, but there is no OEH in 'team.'



That's because I have the patent.


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## SilasCL (Jun 14, 2004)

SwiftSolo said:


> So JB let Armstorng take all of the team cars knowing that he and Astana would likely lose the tour to Andy. Yes folks, that's real likely and just like JB! He loves to lose tours. You can always believe that these kinds of stories are worth all that you've paid for them.
> 
> Did you hear about Bush bomding the ***** in New Orleans (after he bombed the World trade center)? Lance was most likely part of that!


Why don't you take AC at his word like you do Lance?


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## il sogno (Jul 15, 2002)

bahueh said:


> and I know from first hand experience LA is a bit of a pr*ck...
> I simply didn't know wtf she was talking about....


I'm talking about the Annecy time trial in this year's TDF and Armstrong making it difficult for Contador to get to the starting venue.

Some people new to the sport might not know the rules about how the time trial time is taken if you (say....Alberto Contador) are late to the start. Some folks might be thinking that this was a harmless prank on Lance's part. 

I'm just reminding these good folks that the clock starts not when the rider gets there, but when the rider is _scheduled _to start.


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## SwiftSolo (Jun 7, 2008)

SilasCL said:


> Why don't you take AC at his word like you do Lance?


As I explained before, what are the odds that JB would let Lance do something that could cost Astana the tour? Not very likely.


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## il sogno (Jul 15, 2002)

SwiftSolo said:


> As I explained before, what are the odds that JB would let Lance do something that could cost Astana the tour? Not very likely.


No one said anything about JB being in on it. Maybe he was, maybe he wasn't. 

Or maybe Lance just went "renegade".


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## Circlip (Jul 26, 2005)

It doesn't sound to me like AC was in any danger of missing his start (only a few km's, and they depart way early to prep anyhow) but instead it does sound like Lance was trying to screw with AC's head once again.

All pure speculation, but knowing AC would find a way to get himself to the team's staging area, via Taxi or whatever, he was probably hoping that it would wreak havoc with his performance, although even with a "Chicken-like" TT outing the lead and GC win was still virtually unassailable for practical purposes.

Funny to see the outcome under these circumstances, with LA looking like a dog in the TT, and AC responding with some extra oomph. Turning the pedals in anger? If there is such a thing, I'll bet Contador was doing exactly that. No need to wonder anymore where the seemingly superhuman motivation and performance came from. The guy was juiced on his own adrenaline.


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## California L33 (Jan 20, 2006)

il sogno said:


> No but he needed a ride from the hotel to the TT.


If true this officially becomes the funniest TdF story ever- Hollywood sending the team car to pick up his baby mama while poor AC is running for the start line holding his shoes cursing in Spanish :thumbsup: (Totally classless, Lance, but so funny we have to forgive you). 

I did think it was fairly normal for riders to be strongly discouraged from traveling any way but by team bus- even stars, because it has room for all their equipment and if everyone's on the bus it prevents start line fiascoes like that. And even though Johan and Lance are friends, I think he would have blown his cork if one of his riders' was jeopardized like that.


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## DrRoebuck (May 10, 2004)

il sogno said:


> Thanks for that. Here's a quote from that web page.


That is absolutely amazing.

I've been pretty much neutral on LA all along. I've sided with AC over this little dispute, but not vehemently.

But if all this is true, then LA is an unbelievable POS.


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## teoteoteo (Sep 8, 2002)

il sogno said:


> No. Were you there? Cause if you were you coulda offered Alberto a ride.



If you are trying to say that trying to say there was any risk of Conti missing the start (which it seems you are) you are wrong. And thanks to twitter we even have a timeline. All three riders started within a few minutes of each other. All three were warming up here together with photo posted at 8:11 U.S. Time, Lance's family arrived nearly an hour before this photo was taken, the second link shows that. 

http://mypict.me/show.php?id=d1KF (posted 8:11 am)

http://mypict.me/show.php?id=d0SI (posted 7:20 am)


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## jptaylorsg (Apr 24, 2003)

nims said:


> The whole hotel room thing sounds suspicious to me. The spanish media is quick to blame Lance for it. Astana has more than one car. How did the whole team get there? Was he expecting a car to remain for him? Or was that not even decided the day before. Did he not understand when to wake up to catch a ride? heck him, kloden, lance probaby should have been on the same car. They only had like 10 minutes difference total.
> 
> I just don't get it. I really don't think JB would jeopardize the race like this either. Even if it was lances little gimmick.
> 
> It just sounds a little too extreme. And I know you all want to bash the American media but you seem quick to support the Spanish media too which isn't any less biased towards their local rider. Trying to stay objective here.


Three things:
1. They both could have acted better, but if you want to know who has been quieter, it's clearly Contador. One interview. That's it. They asked - he answered.
2. If 25% of the crap attributed to Lance in this Tour is true, then he truly was a douche. This thing, though, is hard to completely attribute to him. Do I think he sent a car or two to the airport? Yes. Do I think he did it to screw Contador? No. The other stuff like taking seats on the bus - yeah.
3. WTF is with the Astana crew? The yellow jersey hasn't left the hotel, and they send the cars away? Blame Contador all you want for hitting the front door late, but he's there to ride. Just like Tiger Woods shouldn't have to worry about whether his clubs are at the first tee, all of the riders have a right to expect that the team will see to it that they all get to their starting time. This sounds like a team f-up to me.


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## ProRoad (Oct 13, 2008)

I came here looking for some "time trial info," and all I got was some opinion from someone who wants "Lance fans" to stop being Lance fans. go figure....


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## teoteoteo (Sep 8, 2002)

ProRoad said:


> I came here looking for some "time trial info," and all I got was some opinion from someone who wants "Lance fans" to stop being Lance fans. go figure....


I posted this further up the thread directly to the OP but I'll post again here at the bottom too for all of the people that won't see it higher up 


If you are trying to say that trying to say there was any risk of Conti missing the start (which it seems you are) you are wrong. And thanks to twitter we even have a timeline. All three riders started within a few minutes of each other. All three were warming up here together with photo posted at 8:11 U.S. Time, Lance's family arrived nearly an hour before this photo was taken, the second link shows that. 

http://mypict.me/show.php?id=d1KF (posted 8:11 am)

http://mypict.me/show.php?id=d0SI (posted 7:20 am)


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## DrRoebuck (May 10, 2004)

teoteoteo said:


> If you are trying to say that trying to say there was any risk of Conti missing the start (which it seems you are) you are wrong. And thanks to twitter we even have a timeline. All three riders started within a few minutes of each other. All three were warming up here together with photo posted at 8:11 U.S. Time, Lance's family arrived nearly an hour before this photo was taken, the second link shows that.
> 
> http://mypict.me/show.php?id=d1KF (posted 8:11 am)
> 
> http://mypict.me/show.php?id=d0SI (posted 7:20 am)


So let's say it's 2004 and Floyd Landis sent Lance's team car to the airport to pick up his family.

Can you imagine Lance walking down to the hotel lobby and seeing that his car is gone?

Seriously ... Lance probably would have booted him off the team right then and there, and then would have pressed charges and -- undoubtedly -- sued his ass off.

It's not as much about trying to cost AC tim on the ITT, it's about messing with his head the morning of possibly the biggest race of his life.

Inexcusable no matter which way you spin it.

This sh1t is disgraceful.


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## jptaylorsg (Apr 24, 2003)

teoteoteo said:


> I posted this further up the thread directly to the OP but I'll post again here at the bottom too for all of the mouth breathers that won't see it higher up
> 
> 
> If you are trying to say that trying to say there was any risk of Conti missing the start (which it seems you are) you are wrong. And thanks to twitter we even have a timeline. All three riders started within a few minutes of each other. All three were warming up here together with photo posted at 8:11 U.S. Time, Lance's family arrived nearly an hour before this photo was taken, the second link shows that.
> ...


Mouth breathers? What did anyone posting in this thread do to you?

Are you really so invested that you saw fit to post the same thing twice in the same thread? We all saw Contador start the time trial on time - and win it - so pictures of him there before the start aren't much of a revelation. You're clearly missing the intent of the OP.


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## teoteoteo (Sep 8, 2002)

DrRoebuck said:


> So let's say it's 2004 and Floyd Landis sent Lance's team car to the airport to pick up his family.
> 
> Can you imagine Lance walking down to the hotel lobby and seeing that his car is gone?
> 
> ...


Yes, but can provide anyone with proof that there was a dedicated car sent to wait just for Alberto? and that somehow Lance managed to convince that person in in Alberto's car to instead go to the Airport instead to go get his family instead. Otherwise you're the one spinning it. 

Look at it this way how the F*ck can Lance's family arrive at the start at the same time as Lance yet, they were at the airport and Lance the hotel. But Alberto's start time was only a few minutes after Lance's.


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## identifiler (Dec 24, 2005)

ahhhh...sorry to burst your bubble but Contador had a complete french mortorcade take him to the start and is part of protocol towards the end of the tour upon request. I saw many pictures documenting that fact. I ain't no Lance fan but folks on here are just cwazy !


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## gregario (Nov 19, 2001)

jptaylorsg said:


> Mouth breathers? What did anyone posting in this thread do to you?
> 
> Are you really so invested that you saw fit to post the same thing twice in the same thread? We all saw Contador start the time trial on time - and win it - so pictures of him there before the start aren't much of a revelation. You're clearly missing the intent of the OP.


I could be mistaken, but I believe Teoteo is a personal friend of Lance, or at least a close acquaintance. So that is his investment, eh?


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## mohair_chair (Oct 3, 2002)

This story doesn't sound plausible to me. Never mind that the "facts" don't seem to add up, but I can't believe that the Astana team would not have one person specifically tasked to get Contador to the start, by any means necessary. Contador is in yellow, and that's pretty important to the fortunes of the team (the staff also gets a cut of the prize money). There's no way they forget about him and send his car to go pick up Lance's girlfriend. So I'm calling BS on this one.


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## OldEndicottHiway (Jul 16, 2007)

jptaylorsg said:


> Mouth breathers? What did anyone posting in this thread do to you?
> 
> Are you really so invested that you saw fit to post the same thing twice in the same thread? We all saw Contador start the time trial on time - and win it - so pictures of him there before the start aren't much of a revelation. You're clearly missing the intent of the OP.



I _think_ what Teo and others are saying, if I may put words in their mouths, is we just aren't privvy to the details.

And slamming LA based on what is more than likely media spin and sensationalism because it makes a great story...is...

I'm trying to give both riders the "benefit of the doubt" at this point, because I wasn't there. Period.


In other news...it was a fabulous race for so many riders and for us to witness! Agreed?


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## SwiftSolo (Jun 7, 2008)

These AC / LA posts have all of the marking of a trailor trash gossip session / knitting bee between a bunch of half drunk, middle aged, high school drop-outs. They are the "whole truth" because we know that Ruthie Ann wouldn't tell no lies--let alone the tabloids that are spreading the "news".


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## OldEndicottHiway (Jul 16, 2007)

gregario said:


> I could be mistaken, but I believe Teoteo is a personal friend of Lance, or at least a close acquaintance. So that is his investment, eh?



Oh brother. He probably sees the guy once a year, in passing. 



In other news, it was a great race, agreed?


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## gregario (Nov 19, 2001)

OldEndicottHiway said:


> Oh brother. He probably sees the guy once a year, in passing.
> 
> 
> 
> In other news, it was a great race, agreed?


no, not really. It wa boring. They need to get rid of the race radios and get back to attacking like Hinault and Lemond/Fignon used to do. None of this "riding tempo" all friggin day.


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## OldEndicottHiway (Jul 16, 2007)

SwiftSolo said:


> *These AC / LA posts have all of the marking of a trailor trash gossip *".



You said that right.


So why do I keep faliing into this trap? Lemme out! 

I know, I'll go ride my bike. Oh wait. Already did.


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## CARBON110 (Apr 17, 2002)

il sogno said:


> When your spot for the time trial comes up, the clock starts whether you are there or not. For the old timers, remember Pedro Delgado's late start at the 1989 Tour prologue? He arrived 2:40 late. The clock was already running and he just had to ride the entire Tour with that added 2:40 on his time.
> 
> If Contador had arrived at the Annecy start gate 15 minutes late it's not like the clock would have started when he got there. He would already have been 15 minutes into his "time trial" and would have most likely been eliminated from the Tour that day for failing to come in under the time limitation.
> 
> ...



lol cheesetastic 

beat that horse baby, 

BEAT IT! 

never thought LA coming back would bring this kind of ridiculous exaggerations 

spin spin spin 

seems like everyone believes what news appeals to their prejudice - news - journalism - bahahahahah rrriiiggghht


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## SwiftSolo (Jun 7, 2008)

OldEndicottHiway said:


> You said that right.
> 
> 
> I know, I'll go ride my bike. Oh wait. Already did.


Trouble is- it's so blinking hot that you've got to ride a 5:30 am and that leaves a lot of day to kill! Too hot to work in the yard.


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## Jesse D Smith (Jun 11, 2005)

il sogno said:


> When your spot for the time trial comes up, the clock starts whether you are there or not. For the old timers, remember Pedro Delgado's late start at the 1989 Tour prologue? He arrived 2:40 late. The clock was already running and he just had to ride the entire Tour with that added 2:40 on his time.
> 
> If Contador had arrived at the Annecy start gate 15 minutes late it's not like the clock would have started when he got there. He would already have been 15 minutes into his "time trial" and would have most likely been eliminated from the Tour that day for failing to come in under the time limitation.
> 
> ...


Sorry, but I find it hard to believe Johan would put the yellow jersey in jeopardy for a practical joke or as part of a personal sabotage. It seems like a lot of people are allowing personal dislike for Lance trump all logic and reason. It seems like the "Obama is a Muslim with no birth certificate" crowd has found a summer diversion.


----------



## OldEndicottHiway (Jul 16, 2007)

SwiftSolo said:


> Trouble is- it's so blinking hot that you've got to ride a 5:30 am and that leaves a lot of day to kill! Too hot to work in the yard.



Yupers I was on the road about 7:30 AM. 


Did "a little" yardwork in the afternoon, beacuse it simply had to be done. Sweat like a pig too. 

Only reached to about 94 on this side of the hill, though.


----------



## SilasCL (Jun 14, 2004)

gregario said:


> I could be mistaken, but I believe Teoteo is a personal friend of Lance, or at least a close acquaintance. So that is his investment, eh?


No, he's an employee of Lance. He got what Mike Anderson didn't.


----------



## OldEndicottHiway (Jul 16, 2007)

Oh hi Coolio. I see you lurking.

You are about to be swallowed up by the vortex, too?

Run away.

Bye now.


----------



## SilasCL (Jun 14, 2004)

SwiftSolo said:


> These AC / LA posts have all of the marking of a trailor trash gossip session / knitting bee between a bunch of half drunk, middle aged, high school drop-outs. They are the "whole truth" because we know that Ruthie Ann wouldn't tell no lies--let alone the tabloids that are spreading the "news".


Yeah, why trust a newspaper when you have Lance on twitter. He wouldn't lie.


----------



## Coolhand (Jul 28, 2002)

OldEndicottHiway said:


> Oh hi Coolio. I see you lurking.
> 
> You are about to be swallowed up by the vortex, too?
> 
> ...


Nope- just checking in. I wanted to remind a few posters to please keep your Doping thoughts in the Doping Forum.

Otherwise enjoy s_uper happy Lance is Evil, No Conty is Evil _fun time.


----------



## DrRoebuck (May 10, 2004)

Sad thing is, we saw enough of LA's and JB's obvious displeasure with Contador to make this story seem plausible. At least in my eyes. As far as I'm concerned, because this would only be more of the same, he's guilty until proven innocent on this one. Way it goes.

Things might be different if, let's say, he acted like a decent person when he was up on the podium. I just finished a documentary about CSC that ended with the 2004 podium shot. Night and day between then and now.


----------



## SilasCL (Jun 14, 2004)

Yeah yeah, I didn't really want to get into doping, it was just a convenient example...


----------



## teoteoteo (Sep 8, 2002)

SilasCL said:


> No, he's an employee of Lance. He got what Mike Anderson didn't.


No, no, I have been an active poster here for a long time. And will continue to do so. I also know Mike very well. I worked beside him for 2 years at a shop before he worked for Lance. I rode and raced bikes with Mike. I have no fear of speaking my mind. At the same time there isn't much reason for me to jump into every one of these conversations. I just don't have the time or interest. However, sometimes when they are way off base I may chime in. 

I was at the Tour in Annecy, through my own hard work as a tour guide in a job that absolutely nothing to do with my employment at the shop. It was a gig I first landed 7 years ago. As for that shop employment I didn't get the job because I would or wouldn't engage in internet discussions. I got it because I bikes are the only thing I have ever been good at. I worked very hard to treat my $9 hour sales job in 1997 as a professional position in which I wanted to be the best I could. That work ethic got me better and better jobs. I feel no shame in that.


----------



## SwiftSolo (Jun 7, 2008)

SilasCL said:


> Yeah, why trust a newspaper when you have Lance on twitter. He wouldn't lie.


You're right, you can always trust the media to tell the "whole truth".


----------



## Guest (Jul 31, 2009)

Mapei said:


> I agree OEH. I'm already casting the film. Aaron Eckhart playing Armstrong with his signature smarmy charm. *Terry-Thomas* playing Johan Bruyneel with gap-toothed glee.



Gawd.

Perfect.

It's a Mad, Mad, Mad World!!


----------



## il sogno (Jul 15, 2002)

teoteoteo said:


> Yes, but can provide anyone with proof that there was a dedicated car sent to wait just for Alberto? and that somehow Lance managed to convince that person in in Alberto's car to instead go to the Airport instead to go get his family instead. Otherwise you're the one spinning it.
> 
> Look at it this way how the F*ck can Lance's family arrive at the start at the same time as Lance yet, they were at the airport and Lance the hotel. But Alberto's start time was only a few minutes after Lance's.


Contador got there in time cause he was able to get a ride from his brother. What time would he have gotten there if he had had to walk to the start venue? And what would the walking have done to his readiness for the TT?

Any way you look at this, it is a terrible thing for Lance to use the team vehicles to pick up his baby-momma and kids. I know he's riding for free and all, but the guy is is not poor and he should be able to pay for a taxi or a limo for to pick up personal friends and family members. 

And if this is Lance's version of psychological warfare it failed because Alberto cleaned his clock that day.


----------



## il sogno (Jul 15, 2002)

CARBON110 said:


> lol cheesetastic
> 
> beat that horse baby,
> 
> ...


Wow... I didn't think a discussion about the possible real life consequences of Lance's antics would get folks this riled up.


----------



## Jesse D Smith (Jun 11, 2005)

DrRoebuck said:


> Sad thing is, we saw enough of LA's and JB's obvious displeasure with Contador to make this story seem plausible. At least in my eyes. As far as I'm concerned, because this would only be more of the same, he's guilty until proven innocent on this one. Way it goes.
> 
> Things might be different if, let's say, he acted like a decent person when he was up on the podium. I just finished a documentary about CSC that ended with the 2004 podium shot. Night and day between then and now.


So let's talk specifically about Johan's displeasure with Contador. Let's put his displeasure into context. Maybe I missed something, but prior to the time trial, the only less than praisworthy words Johan had for Contador were: 
"The attack from Contador, three k' from the top [of the Colombière], that was not really... I had advised not to go. He did not need to go, he did not need to attack."

I don't know about you, but I don't read a level of displeasure in this that would make sabotaging the team's yellow jersey plausible. 

I think we've seen more evidence of Johan's conservative approach and "conserve the yellow jersey at all costs" attitude. To think he'd risk throwing away the yellow jersey for spite, and face the overwhelming scrutiny and ridicule from the media and cycling world, well that's unquestionable ridiculous. 

I find it much more plausible that Johan and Lance were disappointed with Contador, question his ability to work within a team, and are not eager to deal with him in the future. Yes, Lance is egotistical, driven, and disappointed at not being the team leader. But he speaks his mind, and he said himself that Contador was stronger and the team will support him. 

We've had people eagerly predict that Lance would actively screw Contador on the road, that the team would be bitterly split and self-destruct, yet none of this came about. We've had people jump on L'Equipes National Enquireresque rumor story and see that proven false. Lance rides in support of Levi, the two spend each day of the Tour together on video segments, Levi states nothing but admiration and enjoyment at riding with Lance, yet we're now discussing how he's eager to break the chains of slavery and get away from Lance the Evil. Seems like many feverish Lance detractors are the ones eager to break the chains of plausibility and evidence, and label anyone who thinks otherwise as a Koolaid drinking Lance fanboys. 

Cycling, like politics isn't black and white, no matter how convenient it might make it. 

Why are people so eager to jump through hoops of logic to view Johan and Lance as only capable of the extremes of unquestioning support and burning, self-destructive spite? These aren't the attributes of a director who has showed to be nothing if not pragmatic and a rider who admitted to his limitations.


----------



## jptaylorsg (Apr 24, 2003)

OldEndicottHiway said:


> In other news...it was a fabulous race for so many riders and for us to witness! Agreed?


I agree completely. Especially in the mountains.

And I only breathe through my mouth when I'm really winded.


----------



## SilasCL (Jun 14, 2004)

teoteoteo said:


> No, no, I have been an active poster here for a long time. And will continue to do so. I also know Mike very well. I worked beside him for 2 years at a shop before he worked for Lance. I rode and raced bikes with Mike. I have no fear of speaking my mind. At the same time there isn't much reason for me to jump into every one of these conversations. I just don't have the time or interest. However, sometimes when they are way off base I may chime in.
> 
> I was at the Tour in Annecy, through my own hard work as a tour guide in a job that absolutely nothing to do with my employment at the shop. It was a gig I first landed 7 years ago. As for that shop employment I didn't get the job because I would or wouldn't engage in internet discussions. I got it because I bikes are the only thing I have ever been good at. I worked very hard to treat my $9 hour sales job in 1997 as a professional position in which I wanted to be the best I could. That work ethic got me better and better jobs. I feel no shame in that.


From what I've seen on here you're a stand up guy. I think your posts on here have been in good faith, but some found the mouth breather thing a bit over the top. I'm only saying where you are coming from. If I was in your position this stuff would hit me closer to home too.

You shouldn't have any shame in what you do, but I felt the need to point out that you are not another outside observer like the rest of us.


----------



## SilasCL (Jun 14, 2004)

SwiftSolo said:


> You're right, you can always trust the media to tell the "whole truth".


Yeah, it's all a big conspiracy. Not just the French newspapers, but the Spanish ones are in on it too!


----------



## Jesse D Smith (Jun 11, 2005)

Snakebitten said:


> Bush hates Lesbians?


I've been told they'd like to give Bush a lickin'.


----------



## cyclejim (Mar 31, 2004)

il sogno said:


> Contador got there in time cause he was able to get a ride from his brother. What time would he have gotten there if he had had to walk to the start venue? And what would the walking have done to his readiness for the TT?
> 
> Any way you look at this, it is a terrible thing for Lance to use the team vehicles to pick up his baby-momma and kids. I know he's riding for free and all, but the guy is is not poor and he should be able to pay for a taxi or a limo for to pick up personal friends and family members.
> 
> And if this is Lance's version of psychological warfare it failed because Alberto cleaned his clock that day.


But didn't teoteoteo just explain (and showed photos with timestamps) that Lances family and Lance arrived at the start at the same time? So were they all in the car with Lance? The same car that Lance supposedly sent to pick up his family?


----------



## Henry Porter (Jul 25, 2006)

I think if it did happen, JB would not have been involved. It would all have been on Lance.


----------



## il sogno (Jul 15, 2002)

cyclejim said:


> But didn't teoteoteo just explain (and showed photos with timestamps) that Lances family and Lance arrived at the start at the same time? So were they all in the car with Lance? The same car that Lance supposedly sent to pick up his family?


I don't know where you got that Lance and his family were in the same car.


----------



## ProRoad (Oct 13, 2008)

I am seriously laughing out loud, is it the beer or the 9 mile climb I did in the heat today? Motivated by none other than Lance Armstrong, oh, and I am wearing my blue Livestrong shirt too. night night.

Next year will be even better.
Brian

ok, it's the beer.


----------



## FondriestFan (May 19, 2005)

Jesse D Smith said:


> Sorry, but I find it hard to believe Johan would put the yellow jersey in jeopardy for a practical joke or as part of a personal sabotage. It seems like a lot of people are allowing personal dislike for Lance trump all logic and reason. It seems like the "Obama is a Muslim with no birth certificate" crowd has found a summer diversion.


Johan knows where his bread gets buttered. We saw that from his stupid twitter remarks. 

The facts apparently are that AC didn't have a ride to the TT. Which is a disgrace.


----------



## PlatyPius (Feb 1, 2009)

> *Contador: "the days in the hotel were harder than the those on the road"*
> 
> 
> 
> ...


https://www.steephill.tv/2009/entries/contador-post-tdf-news-conference/


----------



## DrRoebuck (May 10, 2004)

il sogno said:


> I wasn't exactly the biggest AC fan during the Tour but hearing about all the stuff he had to deal with has elevated him in my eyes. He's one tough hombre.


+458.3


----------



## DrRoebuck (May 10, 2004)

Jesse D Smith said:


> Why are people so eager to jump through hoops of logic to view Johan and Lance as only capable of the extremes of unquestioning support and burning, self-destructive spite? These aren't the attributes of a director who has showed to be nothing if not pragmatic and a rider who admitted to his limitations.


My posts and opinions have much more to do with Armstrong than with Johan. I kind of figured Johan to be put in tough spot due to Armstrong's unexpected return.

That said, they did gang up on him in interviews I saw.

And, like I've already written, had Armstrong's behavior been better throughout the tour and especially on the last day, I might not have believed this story. But he was a douche, and for a douche this doesn't look far-fetched at all.


----------



## gegarrenton (Jul 10, 2009)

This is the funniest thread in the history of the planet ever.


----------



## pchrosto (Feb 12, 2008)

i think obama should use this as a teachable moment and invite lance and alberto for beers at the whitehouse. maybe they could be more like mountainbikers


----------



## rogger (Aug 19, 2005)

SwiftSolo said:


> These AC / LA posts have all of the marking of a trailor trash gossip session / knitting bee between a bunch of half drunk, middle aged, high school drop-outs. They are the "whole truth" because we know that Ruthie Ann wouldn't tell no lies--let alone the tabloids that are spreading the "news".


Ahem. :wink5:


----------



## identifiler (Dec 24, 2005)

This story is total bullshit, Alberto rode in Annecy start up hours before in a ful out police mortorcade... I don't know just how much bullshit can be on this site anymore...


----------



## gregario (Nov 19, 2001)

rogger said:


> Ahem. :wink5:


awesome.


----------



## SilasCL (Jun 14, 2004)

identifiler said:


> This story is total bullshit, Alberto rode in Annecy start up hours before in a ful out police mortorcade... I don't know just how much bullshit can be on this site anymore...


You said earlier that there were lots of pictures. Post them up...


----------



## mtbbmet (Apr 2, 2005)

This is the dumbest thread ever. 
Full of speculation. Full of one sided spin. Full of garbage, I guess.
If Lance was so full of hate for AC he would have bridged Wiggo up to the lead group before the ITT. If he was out to get AC with such a vengence, as you suggest, why would he have not gone after Frank Schleck when he went. Don't say he didn't have the legs, cause we all saw the force he put out after Wiggo cracked to limit his losses to the lead three.
So why?
It's funny how you guys mock the American media for putting a positive spin on LA, but what do you think the Spanish media are doing? Do you think they are neutral?
I just wondering why American media is wrong, dishonest, and biased, but Spanish media is correct, honest, and neutral?


----------



## juswannaride (May 13, 2009)

mtbbmet said:


> This is the dumbest thread ever.
> Full of speculation. Full of one sided spin. Full of garbage, I guess.
> If Lance was so full of hate for AC he would have bridged Wiggo up to the lead group before the ITT. If he was out to get AC with such a vengence, as you suggest, why would he have not gone after Frank Schleck when he went. Don't say he didn't have the legs, cause we all saw the force he put out after Wiggo cracked to limit his losses to the lead three.
> So why?
> ...


I agree completely...I watched the tour everyday, rewatched some twice. I saw some things a little wack, everything from looks, comments blah blah blah, I'm sure there was some conflict in every team- LA and Conti's were the main focus bout 100% of the time. Conti rode excellent, and Lance proved that he still has what it takes to finish, podium, and possible win the Tour at 37/38yrs old. Both great riders both mixed up with drama that has been over killed by media and individuals with an opinion. The past is in the past no one will know what really happened, but next year let them take it to the road and settle it once and for all.


----------



## pchrosto (Feb 12, 2008)

mtbbmet said:


> This is the dumbest thread ever.
> Full of speculation. Full of one sided spin. Full of garbage, I guess.
> If Lance was so full of hate for AC he would have bridged Wiggo up to the lead group before the ITT. If he was out to get AC with such a vengence, as you suggest, why would he have not gone after Frank Schleck when he went. Don't say he didn't have the legs, cause we all saw the force he put out after Wiggo cracked to limit his losses to the lead three.
> So why?
> ...


i don't get all these poasters complaining about spanish media writing a biased article. it seems that they simply reported what contador said to them in an interview. it's not like they made this up. maybe you feel contador made it up the whole story in the hotel, then you should be upset with him.


----------



## il sogno (Jul 15, 2002)

mtbbmet said:


> This is the dumbest thread ever.
> Full of speculation. Full of one sided spin. Full of garbage, I guess.
> If Lance was so full of hate for AC he would have bridged Wiggo up to the lead group before the ITT. If he was out to get AC with such a vengence, as you suggest, why would he have not gone after Frank Schleck when he went. Don't say he didn't have the legs, cause we all saw the force he put out after Wiggo cracked to limit his losses to the lead three.
> So why?
> ...


You're right it is one sided. Funny how Armstrong hasn't responded to this stuff eh? Usually if anyone so much as looks at him crossed eyed he's all over them. But with this thing? Not a peep (should I say tweet?  ) from him.


----------



## Coolhand (Jul 28, 2002)

il sogno said:


> You're right it is one sided. Funny how Armstrong hasn't responded to this stuff eh? Usually if anyone so much as looks at him crossed eyed he's all over them. But with this thing? Not a peep (should I say tweet?  ) from him.


Maybe you should email him. I am sure he want's in on the latest Internet theory on why he's evil. Use the email title "Dude, found a hot chick that looks like your mom!"


----------



## il sogno (Jul 15, 2002)

Coolhand said:


> Maybe you should email him. I am sure he want's in on the latest Internet theory on why he's evil. Use the email title "Dude, found a hot chick that looks like your mom!"


I'll bet he falls for that one every time!


----------



## Blue Sugar (Jun 14, 2005)

DrRoebuck said:


> It's not as much about trying to cost AC tim on the ITT, it's about messing with his head the morning of possibly the biggest race of his life.
> 
> Inexcusable no matter which way you spin it.
> 
> This sh1t is disgraceful.


It could be true. That type of psychological manipulation is pure Lance. It seems to have worked in the past, but it didn't work with Contador, it fact it seems to have backfired. The guy ended up winning the stage, and he's not even a TT specialist.


----------



## RkFast (Dec 11, 2004)

Up next:

"LANCE STOLE ALBERTO'S ICE CREAM CONE!!!!"

Yepp....its true....read it on Hustler's French site. Larry Flynts french cousin got the scoop, no pun intended. 

Gotta hand it to Flynt. First deLorean.....now Lance.


----------



## SRV (Dec 26, 2006)

A post stage 20 video that makes me feel all warm and fuzzy about LA. This comes from Oz Cycling which has some entertaining videos. Needless to say, you won't find this video on versus.com. Fast forward to about 2:00 into it if you're impatient.

http://ozcycling.com/videos/index.html?video=209&page=1


----------



## SilasCL (Jun 14, 2004)

SRV said:


> A post stage 20 video that makes me feel all warm and fuzzy about LA. This comes from Oz Cycling which has some entertaining videos. Needless to say, you won't find this video on versus.com. Fast forward to about 2:00 into it if you're impatient.
> 
> http://ozcycling.com/videos/index.html?video=209&page=1


Dunno who would care about that. Although Cadel did get reamed pretty thoroughly for similar antics...


----------



## SRV (Dec 26, 2006)

SilasCL said:


> Dunno who would care about that. Although Cadel did get reamed pretty thoroughly for similar antics...



Just fanning the flames. I love a good bonfire. What you say is true...when Cadel had a hissie fit last year he did get reamed. But with Lance the only place to even find the video is an obscure Aussie website.


----------



## Snakebitten (Jun 26, 2008)

SRV said:


> A post stage 20 video that makes me feel all warm and fuzzy about LA. This comes from Oz Cycling which has some entertaining videos. Needless to say, you won't find this video on versus.com. Fast forward to about 2:00 into it if you're impatient.
> 
> http://ozcycling.com/videos/index.html?video=209&page=1



Wow just imagine if AC bumped him on the team bus lol. J/K This really means nothing. A climb like Ventoux does nasty things to your mind and body. The small hills I climb here puts me in foul moods if I dont get over them without being winded lol. Cant read anything into this. All of us have had tough days at work. Same for Cadel especially considering his history of frustration. These guys are human you know.


----------



## android (Nov 20, 2007)

I heard that actually JB had told AC to take the bus (European countries have very good public transportation) but that LA then stole AC's loose change and he had to steal a Belgian city bike to get to the start house.


----------



## Fixed (May 12, 2005)

*I don't get it*

Contador arrived at the start at the last minute, had no warm up, and then won the time trial? 

Just how long in advance of his start time did Contador arrive at the start area? 

How far was it from the hotel to the start, 100 feet or 10 miles? Is this really an issue?


----------



## SwiftSolo (Jun 7, 2008)

SilasCL said:


> Yeah, it's all a big conspiracy. Not just the French newspapers, but the Spanish ones are in on it too!


No conspiracy Mate. Newspapers are like drug dealers-- They sell what makes readers feel good. That is occasionally even the truth--but not often.


----------



## pchrosto (Feb 12, 2008)

Fixed said:


> Contador arrived at the start at the last minute, had no warm up, and then won the time trial?
> 
> Just how long in advance of his start time did Contador arrive at the start area?
> 
> How far was it from the hotel to the start, 100 feet or 10 miles? Is this really an issue?


 what is there to get? you go downstairs expecting a ride and no one is there, instead your buddy had your ride sent to pick up family without letting you know or arranging another ride. end of story. really if you don't care it doesn't matter.


----------



## identifiler (Dec 24, 2005)

This is total bullshit, how often do I have to say it, oh wait ya right, there were weapons of mass destruction in Lake Annecy... 

http://twitter.com/cyclingfans/status/2814905484

Here is a tweet by Cycling Fan's own Peter Geyer, on site at the start at Lake Annecy. Maybe my friend Peter is not a good reference for you, maybe you want Yezuz Kristo to tell you about the truth, god knows with you folks...

Note the time...

*Just a police escort through traffic. Contador enjoying royal treatment, emerged from car with huge smile. #tdf @propulse
12:36 AM Jul 24th from web *


----------



## SilasCL (Jun 14, 2004)

identifiler said:


> This is total bullshit, how often do I have to say it, oh wait ya right, there were weapons of mass destruction in Lake Annecy...
> 
> http://twitter.com/cyclingfans/status/2814905484
> 
> ...


I noted the time.

Did you note the date?

The TT was on the 23rd.


----------



## PlatyPius (Feb 1, 2009)

SilasCL said:


> I noted the time.
> 
> Did you note the date?
> 
> The TT was on the 23rd.


pwnd!!!!1


----------



## FondriestFan (May 19, 2005)

SilasCL said:


> I noted the time.
> 
> Did you note the date?
> 
> The TT was on the 23rd.



PWN of the year. Ouch.


----------



## FondriestFan (May 19, 2005)

android said:


> I heard that actually JB had told AC to take the bus (European countries have very good public transportation) but that LA then stole AC's loose change and he had to steal a Belgian city bike to get to the start house.


Contador then proceeded to drop Lance and his Technicolor Dreambike using that same Belgian city bike.


----------



## Sasquatch (Feb 3, 2004)

you can't hide being an ass forever. lance is learning this lesson now.


----------



## Circlip (Jul 26, 2005)

SilasCL said:


> I noted the time.
> 
> Did you note the date?
> 
> The TT was on the 23rd.


I'm guessing the silence from identifiler will be quite deafening.


----------



## Snakebitten (Jun 26, 2008)

FondriestFan said:


> PWN of the year. Ouch.





Too funny. Ouch +1 lol


----------



## Tschai (Jun 19, 2003)

SwiftSolo said:


> As I explained before, what are the odds that JB would let Lance do something that could cost Astana the tour? Not very likely.


Who knows. Maybe what took place was done without JB's knowledge or control.


----------



## DZfan14 (Jul 6, 2009)

Sasquatch said:


> you can't hide being an ass forever. lance is learning this lesson now.



Here's the full translation of the El Pais article:

http://nyvelocity.com/content/features/2009/one-man-alone-command




> A mistaken scene on the way to Ventoux left in the memory of many, the difference of Bartali or Coppi – no one will know who offered water to whom. Italian society was divided as well 50 years ago with those idols. Contador refused to accept Armstrong’s courtesy – an offer of water in the Caisse d’Epargne water bottle. “I was in the breakaway when the group of Armstrong and Contador caught up with me. I was on the left of the road when Contador got to me. I offered him my bottle because I saw that he didn’t have any water and I am his friend,” says Ian Gutierrez, who is number one in breakaways (in the entire Tour did 581 miles by himself.) *“But, I extended my arm with the water when Armstrong who was a little behind me grabbed it on the fly taking it from Alberto’s reach. After drinking it, he offered it to Alberto, but he passed. And he was going to keep it when I reminded him it was mine and for him to return it*.


----------



## Pinarel00 (Jul 23, 2006)

nims said:


> The whole hotel room thing sounds suspicious to me. The spanish media is quick to blame Lance for it. Astana has more than one car. How did the whole team get there? Was he expecting a car to remain for him? Or was that not even decided the day before. Did he not understand when to wake up to catch a ride? heck him, kloden, lance probaby should have been on the same car. They only had like 10 minutes difference total.
> 
> I just don't get it. I really don't think JB would jeopardize the race like this either. Even if it was lances little gimmick.
> 
> It just sounds a little too extreme. And I know you all want to bash the American media but you seem quick to support the Spanish media too which isn't any less biased towards their local rider. Trying to stay objective here.


Uhmmmm....Forget starting times and the Annecy TT...Lance was a prick ti AC this entire tour and a douche in general....

Read...Again Lance fanboys may not believe this, but face it...Lance Armstrong is an aging champion who rersorted to psychological warfare to best a man he could not match on the road...

And got his ass kicked all up and down France....

Deservedly so...

*One Man Alone at the Command
Fri, 07/31/2009 - 9:24pm by Andy

This El Pais article has been bouncing around the 'net for a few days now. A reader translated it and sent it in.



An Italian journalist asks Alberto Contador if he thought Johan Bruyneel, director of the Astana team, preferred Lance Armstrong to win the Tour. He smiled, his eyes brilliant, “Good question. Ask Johan that instead of me. I won one. That counts.” Contador won what he defined the “double Tour, of the hotel and on the road.”

(Contador: The day after Arcalis was psychologically the worst of the Tour. The Spaniard had to come down from Mt .Ventoux in his brother's car.

On the road and in the team's kitchen, you can review the history of Contador being by himself in his second tour in 2009.) 


1. Abanicos en la Camarga

"The tactic for not getting the yellow too early was so as not to burn up the team," Bruyneel said. "If I would've had gotten the yellow, I wouldn't have had to reliquinsh it. I would've defended it," Armstrong said. Acquiring the yellow jersey in the first week was a priority in Lance's strategy that was happening to paralyze any initiative that Contador might have had to establish his own hierarchy in the team. After realizing his (Lance’s) limits and the talent of Contador at the time trial in Monaco (22 seconds in favor of the Spaniard’s) the Texan found his opportunity on a roundabout and in a change of the wind on the Camarga (the place this happened) which is open to the Mediterranean.

“I was just behind Alberto at that moment,” said Rojas, the Murcian sprinter from Caisse d’Epargne. “He was on Paulinho’s wheel who in turn was behind Zubeldia. Seeing that, I didn’t worry when I saw that Paulinho moved to the side, and Alberto got separated. I thought that the ones who were in front were not too far and that with a sprint, we could have caught them but as soon as we rounded the curve, I saw that we were really far away, that they had discarded Alberto.”

After the circle of his friends from Columbia, and in spite that in the front group was the leader Cancellara, Armstrong made Zubeldia and Popovich work on the front with Alberto in the back. The difference at the finish line was more than the 41 seconds that allowed Armstrong to recover for the leadership in the team. This gave the Texan the reason to pound Contador in his twitter with the same style that he used during Paris-Nice criticizing Contador’s lack of intelligence, tactics, and lack of respect for “The Boss”.

“A winner of seven Tours know how things are going,” Armstrong reminded Contador two days after the team time trial in which Astana destroyed the Tour in which the Texan ended up fractions of a second from the yellow. An example of a punishment, they left him at the back of the peloton, being beaten up by the wind from the coast on the way to Perpignon without any teammates, not even his loyal Paulinho with him. “I felt sorry to see the way they were treating him,” said the Belgian Champion, Tom Boonen. “They were trying to break him.” But Contador, a “hard-head”, in Armstrong’s own word, had some ideas of his own as he demonstrated in Arcalis.

2. The frustration of Arcalis

Contador, as concentrated as he was in controlling his tongue in order not to get into the provocations of Armstrong, he bit his legs more than what he intended on the first mountain in Andorra where he was planning to attack with 5 km left in order to catch up with the yellow jersey contrary to Bruyneel’s wishes because Bruyneel didn’t want to show Armstrong’s strength too soon. Contador had doubts – the wind was blowing too much from the front which put a brake in the attacks that they were hoping to come from Evans, Sastre, and the Schleck brothers, the losers of the time trial. He didn’t want to be the first to attack, it would’ve looked too ugly. Finally, Evans made a move with only 2 km remaining when the one from Pinto made a move. Little space to catch up to the leader – he ended up 6 seconds from Nocentini and two seconds ahead of Armstrong. “The next day in Arcalis, was psychologically the worst of this Tour,” Contador finally admitted responding to the criticisms from the duo Bruyneel-Armstrong. “I always obey the instructions from the team,” repeated Armstrong. “I have won 7 Tours.” From that moment on, he stopped considering the Spaniard a member of the team, acting as if he, Contador, simply didn’t exist. Contador was left without defense; if at least he would’ve attacked from far away and conquered the leadership…After that, he found refuge more in his little group of support: his mechanic, his masseuse, Paulinho, his brother-manager-comforter, and his press agent. While membersof Armstrong’s side on the team didn’t hold back in showing their sentiments, the rest of the members, the independent guys, impartial ones, the ones that thought of only the good of the team, they found themselves in a balancing act. They couldn’t show any signs of happiness or unhappiness for the actions of one or the other so it wouldn’t be misinterpreted because the pride of the champions are very susceptible; also, they had to calculate the hours that they would wear the different team jerseys: the blue Astana, the black Trek….All in order not to throw more fuel on the fire since the fire couldn’t be extinguished.

3. En ingels, no
In English, no

From the beginning, Contador decided to offer his press releases in Spanish with translations in French. The English fell outside of his capabilities. Many people understood that as a territorial demarcation like a reply to the power of Armstrong in the English-speaking press. Bruyneel always thought that it was better for him to express himself in his native tongue even though he recognized that “Contador speaks English better than what people think.” The truth is that this decision hid a message to Armstrong in his particular war of nerves. Many in the media were surprised with the absence of the manager Bruyneel in the press room with Contador. Bruyneel, his director, only showed up at the first press conference in Monaco. Later he, Bruyneel, chose to withdraw from sight: “If not all the questions come to me and it’s not about taking away the limelight from the protagonist.”

For others, it looked more that Bruyneel wanted to isolate himself from Contador. The truth is each one of them has his own agenda of communication. It happened the third week, “the week of Contador’s glory”, was tainted with Armstrong’s news: the criticisms in twitter, interviews with a few journalists, and finally the announcement of his new sponsor. Beaten on the road, Armstrong turned to the battle of the images. Always in English.



4. Armstrong, le ‘roba’ el coache
Armstrong steals the car

If he had any doubts, the time trial of Annecy erased them right away. Contador did his preparations: a ritual training and warm-ups. But when he requested a car to go to the start line, he found there was none available. Armstrong made sure all the cars were used to pick up his family and friends upon their arrival that day in France. Contador, the leader of the Tour, had to go from the hotel to Annecy in his brother, Fran’s, car while Armstrong’s troop had all the Astana cars waiting for them. The psychological warfare reached its moment of guerilla warfare; it was childish. The virtual elimination of Contador was a result of Armstrong’s domination, the day he announced his new team.

The car turned out to be the point of disagreement. On Mt. Ventoux, Contador, the last one to come down because of the appearances with the media, came off the mountain again with his brother’s, Fran’s, car, accompanied with his girlfriend, Macarena. He was obligated to the press room at the bottom of the mountain as required by the leader of the race. It was the worst moment for him to go down when all the spectators were going down the road as well. At one time he was almost bumped by another car – without danger. It surprised the people to see the leader so unprotected in that cluster of cars, people and bicycles. The car was yet another issue facing Contador.

5. El desayuno mas amargo
The most sour breakfast

Lance Armstrong, dressed in his warm-up suit and cap, came down for breakfast in the Astana hotel. He finds the table empty and sits in one corner. Following is Alberto Contador and he sits on the other side of the table. There are no words, no look and no gestures between them. Then the rest arrive. The atmosphere is tense. It’s the day after the stage that ended in the Grand Bornand, the day of Contador’s attacked the Schlecks and he threw away Kloden’s chances. It was Contador’s worst moment, something like the night of the long nights for an arrow in calculation. Armstrong’s twitter was hot. The Texan was saying that he chose to control his tongue. Levi Leipheimer from the distance, accused the Spaniard of taking the German from the podium. Bruyneel didn’t buy the leader’s argument for why he attacked.

The heavy word of Astana fell that day on top of Contador. There the delicate threads that still held the team together were broken. And there, Armstrong said “enough” to the guy who was breaking his present and future plans. Probably, that day Contador was left without moral support from his team and he heard more than ever the sounds of silence. Life was never easy for Contador on Astana, but on July 22, he experienced absolute war, the feeling of being outside of his home. That day, Armstrong decided that the kid had gone far enough. Contador preferred to be quiet instead of lamenting. Armstrong and Bruyneel were already working in finding the other team in which Contador would be on.

6. Agua en el Ventoux, champagne en el hotel
Water in Ventoux, champagne in the hotel

A mistaken scene on the way to Ventoux left in the memory of many, the difference of Bartali or Coppi – no one will know who offered water to whom. Italian society was divided as well 50 years ago with those idols. Contador refused to accept Armstrong’s courtesy – an offer of water in the Caisse d’Epargne water bottle. “I was in the breakaway when the group of Armstrong and Contador caught up with me. I was on the left of the road when Contador got to me. I offered him my bottle because I saw that he didn’t have any water and I am his friend,” says Ian Gutierrez, who is number one in breakaways (in the entire Tour did 581 miles by himself.) “But, I extended my arm with the water when Armstrong who was a little behind me grabbed it on the fly taking it from Alberto’s reach. After drinking it, he offered it to Alberto, but he passed. And he was going to keep it when I reminded him it was mine and for him to return it.

This detail reflects the patronizing feeling with which the winner of 7 Tours considers not just his relation with his team but with the peloton. He was also the one that decided when to toast the champagne the winnings of the team: in the middle of the jubilee, the night of the team time trial and not without being cold to Contador when he won the yellow jersey in Annecy. “A funeral to celebrate the yellow jersey,” another member of the team said. Owner of his champagne glass, in tradition going into Paris, knocked glasses with everyone except Armstrong.*


----------



## Pinarel00 (Jul 23, 2006)

its more than just Annecy dude....

You gotta do more than follw twitter, watch Versus and read Hood and Wilcoxon in Velonews if you wanna know how annoyingly childish and bitter LA was when he realised that he just is not that good anymore...

Read:
One Man Alone at the Command
Fri, 07/31/2009 - 9:24pm by Andy

This El Pais article has been bouncing around the 'net for a few days now. A reader translated it and sent it in.



An Italian journalist asks Alberto Contador if he thought Johan Bruyneel, director of the Astana team, preferred Lance Armstrong to win the Tour. He smiled, his eyes brilliant, “Good question. Ask Johan that instead of me. I won one. That counts.” Contador won what he defined the “double Tour, of the hotel and on the road.”

(Contador: The day after Arcalis was psychologically the worst of the Tour. The Spaniard had to come down from Mt .Ventoux in his brother's car.

On the road and in the team's kitchen, you can review the history of Contador being by himself in his second tour in 2009.) 


1. Abanicos en la Camarga

"The tactic for not getting the yellow too early was so as not to burn up the team," Bruyneel said. "If I would've had gotten the yellow, I wouldn't have had to reliquinsh it. I would've defended it," Armstrong said. Acquiring the yellow jersey in the first week was a priority in Lance's strategy that was happening to paralyze any initiative that Contador might have had to establish his own hierarchy in the team. After realizing his (Lance’s) limits and the talent of Contador at the time trial in Monaco (22 seconds in favor of the Spaniard’s) the Texan found his opportunity on a roundabout and in a change of the wind on the Camarga (the place this happened) which is open to the Mediterranean.

“I was just behind Alberto at that moment,” said Rojas, the Murcian sprinter from Caisse d’Epargne. “He was on Paulinho’s wheel who in turn was behind Zubeldia. Seeing that, I didn’t worry when I saw that Paulinho moved to the side, and Alberto got separated. I thought that the ones who were in front were not too far and that with a sprint, we could have caught them but as soon as we rounded the curve, I saw that we were really far away, that they had discarded Alberto.”

After the circle of his friends from Columbia, and in spite that in the front group was the leader Cancellara, Armstrong made Zubeldia and Popovich work on the front with Alberto in the back. The difference at the finish line was more than the 41 seconds that allowed Armstrong to recover for the leadership in the team. This gave the Texan the reason to pound Contador in his twitter with the same style that he used during Paris-Nice criticizing Contador’s lack of intelligence, tactics, and lack of respect for “The Boss”.

“A winner of seven Tours know how things are going,” Armstrong reminded Contador two days after the team time trial in which Astana destroyed the Tour in which the Texan ended up fractions of a second from the yellow. An example of a punishment, they left him at the back of the peloton, being beaten up by the wind from the coast on the way to Perpignon without any teammates, not even his loyal Paulinho with him. “I felt sorry to see the way they were treating him,” said the Belgian Champion, Tom Boonen. “They were trying to break him.” But Contador, a “hard-head”, in Armstrong’s own word, had some ideas of his own as he demonstrated in Arcalis.

2. The frustration of Arcalis

Contador, as concentrated as he was in controlling his tongue in order not to get into the provocations of Armstrong, he bit his legs more than what he intended on the first mountain in Andorra where he was planning to attack with 5 km left in order to catch up with the yellow jersey contrary to Bruyneel’s wishes because Bruyneel didn’t want to show Armstrong’s strength too soon. Contador had doubts – the wind was blowing too much from the front which put a brake in the attacks that they were hoping to come from Evans, Sastre, and the Schleck brothers, the losers of the time trial. He didn’t want to be the first to attack, it would’ve looked too ugly. Finally, Evans made a move with only 2 km remaining when the one from Pinto made a move. Little space to catch up to the leader – he ended up 6 seconds from Nocentini and two seconds ahead of Armstrong. “The next day in Arcalis, was psychologically the worst of this Tour,” Contador finally admitted responding to the criticisms from the duo Bruyneel-Armstrong. “I always obey the instructions from the team,” repeated Armstrong. “I have won 7 Tours.” From that moment on, he stopped considering the Spaniard a member of the team, acting as if he, Contador, simply didn’t exist. Contador was left without defense; if at least he would’ve attacked from far away and conquered the leadership…After that, he found refuge more in his little group of support: his mechanic, his masseuse, Paulinho, his brother-manager-comforter, and his press agent. While membersof Armstrong’s side on the team didn’t hold back in showing their sentiments, the rest of the members, the independent guys, impartial ones, the ones that thought of only the good of the team, they found themselves in a balancing act. They couldn’t show any signs of happiness or unhappiness for the actions of one or the other so it wouldn’t be misinterpreted because the pride of the champions are very susceptible; also, they had to calculate the hours that they would wear the different team jerseys: the blue Astana, the black Trek….All in order not to throw more fuel on the fire since the fire couldn’t be extinguished.

3. En ingels, no
In English, no

From the beginning, Contador decided to offer his press releases in Spanish with translations in French. The English fell outside of his capabilities. Many people understood that as a territorial demarcation like a reply to the power of Armstrong in the English-speaking press. Bruyneel always thought that it was better for him to express himself in his native tongue even though he recognized that “Contador speaks English better than what people think.” The truth is that this decision hid a message to Armstrong in his particular war of nerves. Many in the media were surprised with the absence of the manager Bruyneel in the press room with Contador. Bruyneel, his director, only showed up at the first press conference in Monaco. Later he, Bruyneel, chose to withdraw from sight: “If not all the questions come to me and it’s not about taking away the limelight from the protagonist.”

For others, it looked more that Bruyneel wanted to isolate himself from Contador. The truth is each one of them has his own agenda of communication. It happened the third week, “the week of Contador’s glory”, was tainted with Armstrong’s news: the criticisms in twitter, interviews with a few journalists, and finally the announcement of his new sponsor. Beaten on the road, Armstrong turned to the battle of the images. Always in English.



4. Armstrong, le ‘roba’ el coache
Armstrong steals the car

If he had any doubts, the time trial of Annecy erased them right away. Contador did his preparations: a ritual training and warm-ups. But when he requested a car to go to the start line, he found there was none available. Armstrong made sure all the cars were used to pick up his family and friends upon their arrival that day in France. Contador, the leader of the Tour, had to go from the hotel to Annecy in his brother, Fran’s, car while Armstrong’s troop had all the Astana cars waiting for them. The psychological warfare reached its moment of guerilla warfare; it was childish. The virtual elimination of Contador was a result of Armstrong’s domination, the day he announced his new team.

The car turned out to be the point of disagreement. On Mt. Ventoux, Contador, the last one to come down because of the appearances with the media, came off the mountain again with his brother’s, Fran’s, car, accompanied with his girlfriend, Macarena. He was obligated to the press room at the bottom of the mountain as required by the leader of the race. It was the worst moment for him to go down when all the spectators were going down the road as well. At one time he was almost bumped by another car – without danger. It surprised the people to see the leader so unprotected in that cluster of cars, people and bicycles. The car was yet another issue facing Contador.

5. El desayuno mas amargo
The most sour breakfast

Lance Armstrong, dressed in his warm-up suit and cap, came down for breakfast in the Astana hotel. He finds the table empty and sits in one corner. Following is Alberto Contador and he sits on the other side of the table. There are no words, no look and no gestures between them. Then the rest arrive. The atmosphere is tense. It’s the day after the stage that ended in the Grand Bornand, the day of Contador’s attacked the Schlecks and he threw away Kloden’s chances. It was Contador’s worst moment, something like the night of the long nights for an arrow in calculation. Armstrong’s twitter was hot. The Texan was saying that he chose to control his tongue. Levi Leipheimer from the distance, accused the Spaniard of taking the German from the podium. Bruyneel didn’t buy the leader’s argument for why he attacked.

The heavy word of Astana fell that day on top of Contador. There the delicate threads that still held the team together were broken. And there, Armstrong said “enough” to the guy who was breaking his present and future plans. Probably, that day Contador was left without moral support from his team and he heard more than ever the sounds of silence. Life was never easy for Contador on Astana, but on July 22, he experienced absolute war, the feeling of being outside of his home. That day, Armstrong decided that the kid had gone far enough. Contador preferred to be quiet instead of lamenting. Armstrong and Bruyneel were already working in finding the other team in which Contador would be on.

6. Agua en el Ventoux, champagne en el hotel
Water in Ventoux, champagne in the hotel

A mistaken scene on the way to Ventoux left in the memory of many, the difference of Bartali or Coppi – no one will know who offered water to whom. Italian society was divided as well 50 years ago with those idols. Contador refused to accept Armstrong’s courtesy – an offer of water in the Caisse d’Epargne water bottle. “I was in the breakaway when the group of Armstrong and Contador caught up with me. I was on the left of the road when Contador got to me. I offered him my bottle because I saw that he didn’t have any water and I am his friend,” says Ian Gutierrez, who is number one in breakaways (in the entire Tour did 581 miles by himself.) “But, I extended my arm with the water when Armstrong who was a little behind me grabbed it on the fly taking it from Alberto’s reach. After drinking it, he offered it to Alberto, but he passed. And he was going to keep it when I reminded him it was mine and for him to return it.

This detail reflects the patronizing feeling with which the winner of 7 Tours considers not just his relation with his team but with the peloton. He was also the one that decided when to toast the champagne the winnings of the team: in the middle of the jubilee, the night of the team time trial and not without being cold to Contador when he won the yellow jersey in Annecy. “A funeral to celebrate the yellow jersey,” another member of the team said. Owner of his champagne glass, in tradition going into Paris, knocked glasses with everyone except Armstrong.


----------



## NextTime (Oct 13, 2007)

It's surprising to me the number of people on the board who jump all over Armstrong based on inuendo, gossip and speculation. Wild stuff. And what's worse, it that so many people here believe their own b.s. It's like propaganda, the more you say it, the more you start to believe it.

For me, I'll focus on the facts, and all that we know (for certain) is what we see and that is the racing itself. From what I saw, Armstrong rode a perfect race as a teammate who was supporting a stronger rider on the team.


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## California L33 (Jan 20, 2006)

Pinarel00 said:


> Uhmmmm....Forget starting times and the Annecy TT...Lance was a prick ti AC this entire tour and a douche in general....
> 
> Read...Again Lance fanboys may not believe this, but face it...Lance Armstrong is an aging champion who rersorted to psychological warfare to best a man he could not match on the road...
> 
> ...


What? And Lance was a gentleman the seven times he won? Unfortunately, talent isn't allotted on the basis of how nice a guy you are, and from what I saw on the road, AC has some growing up to do, also. I wasn't at the hotel, so I can't comment on what happened there, or if anyone is spinning it for a particular purpose.


----------



## DrRoebuck (May 10, 2004)

NextTime said:


> It's surprising to me the number of people on the board who jump all over Armstrong based on inuendo, gossip and speculation. Wild stuff. And what's worse, it that so many people here believe their own b.s. It's like propaganda, the more you say it, the more you start to believe it.
> 
> For me, I'll focus on the facts, and all that we know (for certain) is what we see and that is the racing itself. From what I saw, Armstrong rode a perfect race as a teammate who was supporting a stronger rider on the team.


Did you ever once see LA congratulate his teammate on winning the TDF?

A toast of champagne on the final stage?

A high-five on the podium?

Anything?

Throw that douchebaggery in with LA's childish, classless tweets, and it's no surprise so many of us believe these stories.


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## il sogno (Jul 15, 2002)

NextTime said:


> It's surprising to me the number of people on the board who jump all over Armstrong based on inuendo, gossip and speculation. Wild stuff. And what's worse, it that so many people here believe their own b.s. It's like propaganda, the more you say it, the more you start to believe it.
> 
> For me, I'll focus on the facts, and all that we know (for certain) is what we see and that is the racing itself. From what I saw, Armstrong rode a perfect race as a teammate who was supporting a stronger rider on the team.


And it's surprising to me the number of people who jump all over Contador because of what they read on Armstrong's twitter. Wild stuff.


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## teoteoteo (Sep 8, 2002)

Fixed said:


> Contador arrived at the start at the last minute, had no warm up, and then won the time trial?
> 
> Just how long in advance of his start time did Contador arrive at the start area?
> 
> How far was it from the hotel to the start, 100 feet or 10 miles? Is this really an issue?



He was there in plenty of time to do all of the things you mentioned you can see that in the pic. 

http://mypict.me/show.php?id=d1KF


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## Len J (Jan 28, 2004)

You know if you step back a little from the emotion surrounding this contador v aemstrong thing.....................

The amazing thing about this is that wether you believe this story or not, most people could see Armstrong doing something like this.....if for no other reason than to get in AC's head.

It's amazing if you think about it.

len


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## Snakebitten (Jun 26, 2008)

teoteoteo said:


> He was there in plenty of time to do all of the things you mentioned you can see that in the pic.
> 
> http://mypict.me/show.php?id=d1KF


Hmmmmmm. That pic throws a big curve ball at that spanish story about AC barely getting there in time. The plot thickens...Dun dun dunnnn.


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## OldEndicottHiway (Jul 16, 2007)

Len J said:


> *You know if you step back a little from the emotion* surrounding this contador v aemstrong thing.....................
> 
> The amazing thing about this is that wether you believe this story or not, most people could see Armstrong doing something like this.....if for no other reason than to get in AC's head.
> 
> ...



The media only exacerbates the emotion by playing to sides. Case in point the El Pais article Pinarel00 found. Whether or not there is truth in it, it is marinated in "poor Contador" rhetoric. 

LA could be as big an @ss as is portrayed, or not. AC could be as innocent as portrayed, or not. 

The court of public opinion is a fickle thing...


----------



## godot (Feb 3, 2004)

NextTime said:


> For me, I'll focus on the facts


If you're focussing on the facts, I'd be interested to know how resolve the fact that LA had no business being on the Astana tour team in the first place. AC won the last 3 GT's he'd ridden, and as such deserved a team totally dedicated to him. He would have had that had LA not re-appeared.

Also, during LA's run, every team he had was 100% dedicated to LA. Why was LA the one that denied AC that same courtesy? How do you deal with the hypocrisy of LA and JB suddenly changing strategies to "we'll see who is strongest on the road" when it flies in the face of their own tried and tested tour formula?


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## juswannaride (May 13, 2009)

NextTime said:


> It's surprising to me the number of people on the board who jump all over Armstrong based on inuendo, gossip and speculation. Wild stuff. And what's worse, it that so many people here believe their own b.s. It's like propaganda, the more you say it, the more you start to believe it.
> 
> For me, I'll focus on the facts, and all that we know (for certain) is what we see and that is the racing itself. From what I saw, Armstrong rode a perfect race as a teammate who was supporting a stronger rider on the team.


I AGREE with you totally....


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## JohnHemlock (Jul 15, 2006)

This is still possibly the worst thread in the whole apres-TdF flamefest, which is saying something. The Astana team bus (and all team buses) was parked at the finish in Annecy, which was only a couple of kms from the start. All the riders warmed up on stationary bikes in this area, then were taken to the start. There were at least six gendarmes with cars and 2 team cars in the area at all times. The idea that the Yellow Jersey had to call his brother for a lift is ridiculous.


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## bauerb (Jan 18, 2006)

this reminds me of all the swimmers who jumped on Torres for "buying" her way to the olympics. so AC is the kid, and LA is the rich old timer. folks, deal with it. we live in reality and things are comlicated. "Pure sport" or "true athletics". nobody lives in a bubble. power. money and authority, mixed with pure ability - that is the recipe. sorry, its alot more than just lungs, muscle and determination. no diff than any other sport.


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## SilasCL (Jun 14, 2004)

teoteoteo said:


> He was there in plenty of time to do all of the things you mentioned you can see that in the pic.
> 
> http://mypict.me/show.php?id=d1KF


Clearly Contador arrived in time and it didn't affect his TT. I don't think anyone is claiming that it did. Just that it could have, and at the least it was a show by Lance of how he could screw him over...


----------



## DrRoebuck (May 10, 2004)

Len J said:


> The amazing thing about this is that wether you believe this story or not, *most people could see Armstrong doing something like this*.....if for no other reason than to get in AC's head.


That's been my biggest point all along ... 

I also laugh at all the "Lance hater" references. As if his actions could have nothing to do with how people feel about him. Nothing but a tired tactic to dismiss the other side's argument.


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## rogger (Aug 19, 2005)

DrRoebuck said:


> That's been my biggest point all along ...
> 
> I also laugh at all the "Lance hater" references. As if his actions could have nothing to do with how people feel about him. Nothing but a tired tactic to dismiss the other side's argument.


You're just jealous of what he's accomplished.


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## il sogno (Jul 15, 2002)

SilasCL said:


> Clearly Contador arrived in time and it didn't affect his TT. I don't think anyone is claiming that it did. Just that it could have, and at the least it was a show by Lance of how he could screw him over...


Exactly. Contador arrived in time in spite of what Armstrong put him through. 

The point is that Armstrongs antics could have led to Astana losing the yellow jersey if Contador had not been able to get around his roadblocks.


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## izzyfly (Jul 10, 2009)

rogger said:


> You're just jealous of what he's accomplished.


I have to give it to Armstrong TDF champ for 7 years, cancer evangelist. But what I've seen of late, a pouting, conniving bully, who uses the media, hard-core fans to detract from the real problem of his immature personality - there's nothing there to envy or even be proud of. I'd say I could only feel pity for the guy - a real life 'wizard of oz'.


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## Mapei (Feb 3, 2004)

bauerb said:


> this reminds me of all the swimmers who jumped on Torres for "buying" her way to the olympics. so AC is the kid, and LA is the rich old timer. folks, deal with it. we live in reality and things are comlicated. "Pure sport" or "true athletics". nobody lives in a bubble. power. money and authority, mixed with pure ability - that is the recipe. sorry, its alot more than just lungs, muscle and determination. no diff than any other sport.


I agree with you bauerb. But I find it as fitting a topic of conversation as simply arguing about who has more leg power. I've taken to calling it "The Game Above the Game," a counterpoint to "The Game Within the Game."


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## FondriestFan (May 19, 2005)

teoteoteo said:


> He was there in plenty of time to do all of the things you mentioned you can see that in the pic.
> 
> http://mypict.me/show.php?id=d1KF


Of course, that's not even close to being the point.

Obviously, Contador is going to start looking for his ride well in time to get there to warm up, etc.

This has NOTHING to do with Lance sending his car to pick up his family/friends.

But I can appreciate the lengths to which Lance's fans will go to excuse his incredibly puerile and classless behavior.


----------



## FondriestFan (May 19, 2005)

OldEndicottHiway said:


> The media only exacerbates the emotion by playing to sides. Case in point the El Pais article Pinarel00 found. Whether or not there is truth in it, it is marinated in "poor Contador" rhetoric.
> 
> LA could be as big an @ss as is portrayed, or not. AC could be as innocent as portrayed, or not.
> 
> The court of public opinion is a fickle thing...


At this point, all the stories of Armstrong from others in the peloton (Guttierez, Boonen, Contador, Zubeldia) point to Contador being several classes above Armstrong, both in terms of cycling and in terms of maturity.

But I guess if you ignore all that and you grab on to the Lance BS despite all evidence to the contrary, yeah, sure things can be as you say.


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## Snakebitten (Jun 26, 2008)

FondriestFan said:


> At this point, all the stories of Armstrong from others in the peloton (Guttierez, Boonen, Contador, Zubeldia) point to Contador being several classes above Armstrong, both in terms of cycling and in terms of maturity.


Yeah. Kinda hard to ignore all the other tidbits from the other guys you mentioned. All these things being said and no rebuttal from LA or JB is making it a one sided argument in favor of what AC has been saying. Lance may just be a douchebag folks  Im an open minded guy though amd I hope the full story comes out instead of this onesided bashfest thats going on. Usually is three sides to a story.


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## identifiler (Dec 24, 2005)

I guess I got owned but I did see a picture of Conti getting off in Annecy from a 3 car motorcade... I am sure Lance was an ass to him but the car story in Annecy seems total crap to me, it simply does not make sense.

Anyone here thinks the most savy team director in the lat 10 years would let this one go.... come on guys.


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## OldEndicottHiway (Jul 16, 2007)

FondriestFan said:


> At this point, all the stories of Armstrong from others in the peloton (Guttierez, Boonen, Contador, Zubeldia) point to Contador being several classes above Armstrong, both in terms of cycling and in terms of maturity.
> 
> But I guess if you ignore all that and you grab on to the Lance BS despite all evidence to the contrary, yeah, sure things can be as you say.




You're obvious disdain for LA which has appeared over and over and over to the point where I cringe when I see your avatar pop up... perhaps, do you think just perhaps you suffer the malady of which you accuse others? There's a finger pointing right back at you, pally.

It is highly doubtful LA is innocent, and highly doubtful AC is blameless either. If you want your "evidence to the contrary" look it up yourself, it's there within easy reach. 

Done here.

Oh yes. Don't even _think_ about trying to peg me as a "Cont hater." Just how many times did I say I wish no failure on his part? Joking jabs will be all you can find. 

I wish _both_ riders well, personally and professionally.

Hasta LA/AC threads. Until next year.


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## FondriestFan (May 19, 2005)

OldEndicottHiway said:


> You're obvious disdain for LA which has appeared over and over and over to the point where I cringe when I see your avatar pop up... perhaps, do you think just perhaps you suffer the malady of which you accuse others? There's a finger pointing right back at you, pally.
> 
> It is highly doubtful LA is innocent, and highly doubtful AC is blameless either. If you want your "evidence to the contrary" look it up yourself, it's there within easy reach.
> 
> ...


Well, that's a cute post, but in the end, you basically ignored the argument. Look, I understand if Lance is your hero and you want to close your eyes to the facts. That's fine. 

Sure, you're right. I have nothing but disdain for Lance as a person. He's shown himself to be an absolute despicable individual. 

You can choose to ignore the Simeoni incident. You can choose to ignore all the articles about Armstrong. You can choose to ignore Betsy Andreu. You can choose to ignore the comments from other riders, from Contador, Boonen, Guttierez. You can choose to ignore the books, the articles from numerous well-regarded individuals.

Honestly, if it were one or two pieces of evidence or comments, I would probably be inclined to dismiss them as jealousy from rivals.

But at this point, the evidence has been mounting.

Great cyclist. Classless thug though, in my opinion.


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## raptor3x (Jun 3, 2006)

All the reports I've read have said that when Contador called his brother to come pick him up, his brother was already on his way due to one of the Astana people contacting his brother to make sure Contador had a ride.


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## Buzzard (Sep 7, 2004)

pfsssst..... :Yawn:


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## Dwayne Barry (Feb 16, 2003)

raptor3x said:


> All the reports I've read have said that when Contador called his brother to come pick him up, his brother was already on his way due to one of the Astana people contacting his brother to make sure Contador had a ride.


Doesn't it seem incredibly odd though that Astana wouldn't have had persons assigned to take care of him, he was on his way to winning the Tour after all?


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## gegarrenton (Jul 10, 2009)

FondriestFan said:


> Well, that's a cute post, but in the end, you basically ignored the argument. Look, I understand if Lance is your hero and you want to close your eyes to the facts. That's fine.
> 
> Sure, you're right. I have nothing but disdain for Lance as a person. He's shown himself to be an absolute despicable individual.
> 
> ...


I would honestly hate to see your opinion of somebody who actually did something bad.


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## mohair_chair (Oct 3, 2002)

Dwayne Barry said:


> Doesn't it seem incredibly odd though that Astana wouldn't have had persons assigned to take care of him, he was on his way to winning the Tour after all?


For me, this has always been the unbelievable part of this story. That even if there was some kind of mixup and whoever on Astana that was in charge of Contador screwed up, that it wouldn't have been immediately rectified. He's the yellow jersey, after all. A simple phone call to JB, and a car would be there. Did he call JB? Or did he call his brother first?

I also have to wonder why he didn't join his teammates going to the TT. Kloden and Armstrong had no problem getting a ride, and they started minutes apart. Probably went together. Contador started minutes after Armstrong, but when he came down, there was no one there? This incident almost sounds like Contador waited as long as possible to avoid Armstrong, and he ended up getting burned as a result.

Let's also keep in mind that his brother is also his agent, and Contador needs to get out of his contract. Playing up an incident like this as the team screwing him over goes a long way towards that purpose.


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## uzziefly (Jul 15, 2006)

I decided to stay away but after reading many posts and interviews etc,

even as a big LA fan - I salute AC even more now and I only wished he went like a monkey on crack on the first mountain to pull even more time.

Also, I wish he had attacked harder on some other stages instead of just follow. But doing what he did, he kept quiet and laid the smackdown when it mattered and showed who's boss.

I can definitely understand his sentiments - It's not just coming from him -- Zubeldia, other team members, other riders in the peloton too.

Worst of all - JB is an ass for sure. You have the best GT rider in the pro ranks on your team and you treat him like crap. If you really did use a dual leadership with equality, fair enough.

This is just douchebaggery to the fullest. He tailored the Tour towards Lance's victory but AC spoiled it when he attacked. Well, what was he supposed to do anyway? Stick around all the way and 'eventually' be 'asked' to work for Lance when Lance was ahead in the GC perhaps? I'm sure that was the plan. Well no way.


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## Fredke (Dec 10, 2004)

OldEndicottHiway said:


> But where do I fit in?


Isn't it obvious? You can play Tyler whatshisname...


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## FondriestFan (May 19, 2005)

uzziefly said:


> I decided to stay away but after reading many posts and interviews etc,
> 
> even as a big LA fan - I salute AC even more now and I only wished he went like a monkey on crack on the first mountain to pull even more time.
> 
> ...


Well said, uzzie.


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## Hippienflipflops (Aug 21, 2007)

I cant believe this has 6 pages. i cant believe i read them. who cares?


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## California L33 (Jan 20, 2006)

Hippienflipflops said:


> I cant believe this has 6 pages. i cant believe i read them. who cares?


You do, or you're very bored


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## Mapei (Feb 3, 2004)

The thread would be dead if nobody cared. But like Dr. Frankenstein said, "It's alive! It's alive!"


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## OldEndicottHiway (Jul 16, 2007)

Mapei said:


> The thread would be dead if nobody cared. *But like Dr. Frankenstein said, "It's alive! It's alive*!"



And apparently has Mr Abby Normal's brain.

Soup, anyone?


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## Bianchigirl (Sep 17, 2004)

those 6 pages were worth reading for uzzie's post alone


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## raptor3x (Jun 3, 2006)

This is the place for you.


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## gegarrenton (Jul 10, 2009)

Well, just when I thought this thread had totally bottomed out, a new low is reached......


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## den bakker (Nov 13, 2004)

Joseph G said:


> I just have strong feelings about all of that but mostly i just love Lance a lot and want to let people know that he is what every body should want to be like and teach their children to be instead of being some criminal like michale jackson.


That's nice but I don't think he swings that way. sorry


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## FondriestFan (May 19, 2005)

Joseph G said:


> Look i dont want to get into discussing all that and i probably should have kept my opinions to myself i just support Lance because of who he is and what he does and i hate to see people talking about him because we need heros expecialy now in these times when the government is trying to give away our freedom and make us like france or spain or something. I just have strong feelings about all of that but mostly i just love Lance a lot and want to let people know that he is what every body should want to be like and teach their children to be instead of being some criminal like michale jackson.



All this thread was missing was the creepy-white-supremacist-evangelical-conservative angle. Now we've really hit Mach 10 on the way to intellectual gutter. 

What a bunch of garbage. 

Good grief. :nonod:


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## DrRoebuck (May 10, 2004)

Joseph G said:


> I dont think Lance would want to get mud on him so he would not *meat* with a halfrican slimeball like obama.


You might be the dumbest person in America. And I'm not talking about your illiteracy.


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## gegarrenton (Jul 10, 2009)

wow. Just wow.


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## identifiler (Dec 24, 2005)

holy **** that was freeky.... wow ! This **** really exists ? BTW, there are plenty of folks here not from your country, not with your skin color. Much like you, they were born, they went to school, are model citizens, have children, pay taxes and vote for whatever party they feel like and most of all, are excellent cyclist.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TD4X25eoFQo


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## il sogno (Jul 15, 2002)

gegarrenton said:


> wow. Just wow.


For once you and I actually agree on something.


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## gegarrenton (Jul 10, 2009)

il sogno said:


> For once you and I actually agree on something.


No kidding. Amazing how one lunatic can bring people together!


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## il sogno (Jul 15, 2002)

gegarrenton said:


> No kidding. Amazing how one lunatic can bring people together!


Lets hold hands and sing Kumbaya!


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## C6Rider (Nov 15, 2008)

Joseph G - why don't you crawl back under the rock from which you came, and while you're there, why not learn how to spell and use proper punctuation.

BTW - your posts truly belong in the dope forum.


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## PlatyPius (Feb 1, 2009)

That's some first class trollin', that is.


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## identifiler (Dec 24, 2005)

That is some crazy sick stuff...


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## OldEndicottHiway (Jul 16, 2007)

DrRoebuck said:


> You might be the dumbest person in America. And I'm not talking about your illiteracy.



Why are you all feeding the troll?

This thread is going to end up locked due to Mr. Proud to be Pale.


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## gregario (Nov 19, 2001)

OldEndicottHiway said:


> Why are you all feeding the troll?
> 
> This thread is going to end up locked due to Mr. Proud to be Pale.


that's ok, it should be.


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## Henry Porter (Jul 25, 2006)

OldEndicottHiway said:


> Why are you all feeding the troll?
> 
> This thread is going to end up locked due to Mr. Proud to be Pale.


I was hoping it would end up in PO.


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## OldEndicottHiway (Jul 16, 2007)

FondriestFan said:


> All this thread was missing was the creepy-white-supremacist-evangelical-conservative angle. Now we've really hit Mach 10 on the way to intellectual gutter.
> 
> What a bunch of garbage.
> 
> Good grief. :nonod:



This guy makes me think even you and I and could be pals.


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## OldEndicottHiway (Jul 16, 2007)

il sogno said:


> Lets hold hands and sing Kumbaya!



LOL!


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## Andrea138 (Mar 10, 2008)

holy crap, this thread is still alive? 


IBTL!


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## il sogno (Jul 15, 2002)

identifiler said:


> That is some crazy sick stuff...


shhhh....



.
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## Coolhand (Jul 28, 2002)

*Moderators note.*

Troll has been banned and his posts deleted. Alas there are now huge holes in it, and a few spots still have him quoted. He was a real peach, that one was. In any event, time to lock this one up. However, if you would like to start a new thread on this topic, please feel free to.

Thanks to everyone for the bad posts alerts. :thumbsup:


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