# Jan finished 10min back from Horner



## Clark (Aug 10, 2004)

Jan finish today's stage 10 min back from Horner in Stage 2 of Tour of Romandie. He might as well fake that his knee is still hurting him and take the rest of the year off or retire.


----------



## chuckice (Aug 25, 2004)

Clark said:


> Jan finish today's stage 10 min back from Horner in Stage 2 of Tour of Romandie. He might as well fake that his knee is still hurting him and take the rest of the year off or retire.


it's april


----------



## Argentius (Aug 26, 2004)

Tell that to Basso and Landis.


----------



## ashpelham (Jan 19, 2006)

"Ze Hills are hurting on my kneez!"

Man, he is having an awful start to the racing season. Should already have been racing. I remember reading SOMEWHERE back in January that they would have 2000KM in his legs before Jan1, 2006. And what since?


----------



## chuckice (Aug 25, 2004)

it's april and this is his first race...remember lance's ga tt last year? or mont ventoux the yr before...

point being if he looks like crap next month then this is relevant...


----------



## Under ACrookedSky (Nov 8, 2005)

I don't think he is there to anything more than ride in the laughing group. He just wants the kilometers.


----------



## fastfullback (Feb 9, 2005)

*There are pretty girls in Switzerland.*

But they're much harder to see if you're hammering in the drops. Jan knows this.


----------



## botto (Jul 22, 2005)

How Ulrich did in Romandie today is completely irrelevant to how he will do in France this July.



Clark said:


> Jan finish today's stage 10 min back from Horner in Stage 2 of Tour of Romandie. He might as well fake that his knee is still hurting him and take the rest of the year off or retire.


----------



## botto (Jul 22, 2005)

fastfullback said:


> But they're much harder to see if you're hammering in the drops. Jan knows this.


yeah, maybe that's why he lives there


----------



## TitaniumFemur (Oct 19, 2004)

It is amusing how some folks... in their eagerness to participate in the "Jan Ullrich fat watch" - constantly compare him to people with motivations to win in GC or particular stages...

Ullrich arrived 10 min after Horner - as did the entire autobus. Bradley McGee was also in this group. So... I really don't see what's the big deal.


----------



## chuckice (Aug 25, 2004)

TitaniumFemur said:


> So... I really don't see what's the big deal.


absolutely...and it's april!!!


----------



## Coolhand (Jul 28, 2002)

Too many strudel on the team bus!


----------



## Clark (Aug 10, 2004)

I never said that he was overweight. I like Jan alot and I am just saying that all the other big contenders came ready to race and did very well. I just think jan better get moving if he wants to contend this July.


----------



## Francis Cebedo (Aug 1, 2001)

It is not irrelevant! It's not the end of the world either. It is a data point.

Having more info would be good too. Any pics? Any knee pain. Did he look tired? Was he faaaaat?

Another day... in Jan Soap Opera watch.

fc


----------



## divve (May 3, 2002)

Coolhand said:


> Too many strudel on the team bus!


I hear he now eats Bifi Wurst on the bike instead of energy bars.


----------



## Argentius (Aug 26, 2004)

This says it all:









Well, actually it's just a pic of Jan off the back, but, hey. 

My HOPE: it's not that he's fat, it's that he actually worked HARD in the winter -- harder than he's used to, and OVERtrained a bit, hurting his knee, and he's trying not to re-aggravate it in Romandie.

If he DNF's the Giro, I see bad things. If he does finish the Monster of May, then there's hope -- especially if Basso wins it.


----------



## mohair_chair (Oct 3, 2002)

Clark said:


> Jan finish today's stage 10 min back from Horner in Stage 2 of Tour of Romandie. He might as well fake that his knee is still hurting him and take the rest of the year off or retire.


Wow, what is impressive. If Horner can hold off Ullrich like that, he may find himself the winner of that big bike race in July.

Oh dammit, my picture is breaking up....


----------



## rollinrob (Dec 8, 2002)

He's learned alot from Lance in the last couple of years with all the mind games that were going on. My take on it is that he is sandbagging, you know just pretending to suck in this race and all races till the grand boucle. Then he shows his true form and kicks everyones butt! Not!


----------



## Einstruzende (Jun 1, 2004)

I'd like to see Jan be successful this year, but I keep hearing alarms in the back of my mind. The Giro will indeed be a good indicator, and just in the "did he finish" or "did he DNF"


----------



## rocco (Apr 30, 2005)

chuckice said:


> it's april and this is his first race...remember lance's ga tt last year? or mont ventoux the yr before...
> 
> point being if he looks like crap next month then this is relevant...



LA was 10 minutes back?


----------



## chuckice (Aug 25, 2004)

rocco said:


> LA was 10 minutes back?


----------



## Kram (Jan 28, 2004)

Well. You see, right there is the problem. His hair is too long. (This has as about as much relevance as his finishing 10 min back in regards to the tour...)


----------



## Bianchigirl (Sep 17, 2004)

You know what - there was a time when riders actually _raced themselves into form_! Imagine that! I appreciate it must be difficult if you're a newcomer to the sport and assume that great feats can only come as a result of spending all your time in far flung training camps issuing enigmatic statements about your progress and 'numbers' through PRs, but getting racing kilometres in the legs worked just fine for the likes of Merckx, Hinault and Lemond. And, as fans, we get the chance to actually assess a rider's form on the road rather than making educated guesses based on VO2 max and the like.

This approach has always worked better for Ullrich - I seem to recall that Kelly preferred having to actually race rather than train all the time because there were too many distractions when training and racing focussed his mind better.


----------



## philippec (Jun 16, 2002)

Finalement un peu de perspective et de bon sens!

Bianchigirl is dead on -- this was s.o.p. a few years back and it worked for many of the greats. I'm not saying it's going to work for Jan but please -- have a little perspective when considering what it takes to do well and prepare for the Grand Tours!

This sport has been around for a long time you know -- and many things get recycled again! Think that Armstrong invented high-cadence climbing -- go tell that to Charly Gaul's ghost! All this to say that there are many roads that lead to a Grand Tour podium - Basso, Cunego, Landis, Valverde are all on the main road -- but perhaps Ulrich is on an older, lesser known road as well... or not!

We'll find out in June and July ... and possibly in September if Ulrich falls back on the Vuelta to make up for the Giro and the TDF.

A+

Philippe



Bianchigirl said:


> You know what - there was a time when riders actually _raced themselves into form_! Imagine that! I appreciate it must be difficult if you're a newcomer to the sport and assume that great feats can only come as a result of spending all your time in far flung training camps issuing enigmatic statements about your progress and 'numbers' through PRs, but getting racing kilometres in the legs worked just fine for the likes of Merckx, Hinault and Lemond. And, as fans, we get the chance to actually assess a rider's form on the road rather than making educated guesses based on VO2 max and the like.
> 
> This approach has always worked better for Ullrich - I seem to recall that Kelly preferred having to actually race rather than train all the time because there were too many distractions when training and racing focussed his mind better.


----------



## Jesse D Smith (Jun 11, 2005)

*Not his style*



Clark said:


> Jan finish today's stage 10 min back from Horner in Stage 2 of Tour of Romandie. He might as well fake that his knee is still hurting him and take the rest of the year off or retire.


After last year's Tour prologue when Lance passed him, people said the same thing, he should pack it in. But he stuck with it, rode the best he could, and wound up on the podium. Unlike the "second place is for losers...if you can't win, you might as well quit" attitude, in some places, doing your best counts for something.


----------



## goose127 (Jun 9, 2004)

*Stick a fok in him!*

Jan will be a contender come tour time, but how much of one remains to be seen. He is 32, not old, but certainly not young and the body does not adjust as quickly as it would have 10 years ago. I just don't understand why he lets his fitness get so bad. I think it is one thing if he did not contend in this race, its another when you are getting whipped every day. Valverde, Basso, Landis, Leipheimer...all of these guys look like they have stepped it up a notch, maybe they will blow up come July. This much is clear, Jan is a long ways away from being in the kind of form that gets you in yellow come July. I won't say he can't do it, but it sure does not look likely.


----------



## chuckice (Aug 25, 2004)

the giro will tell a lot...i think he looks very good considering he has no race miles. he's certainly been in worse shape at this time of the year...

he's still my pick for le tour...


----------



## rocco (Apr 30, 2005)

chuckice said:


>


----------



## orange_julius (Jan 24, 2003)

philippec said:


> Finalement un peu de perspective et de bon sens!
> 
> Bianchigirl is dead on -- this was s.o.p. a few years back and it worked for many of the greats. I'm not saying it's going to work for Jan but please -- have a little perspective when considering what it takes to do well and prepare for the Grand Tours!


I agree with the above. Let's not get ahead of ourselves here. If I could finish on the podium just once, I'd die a happy man. The other thing is that, what if Jan is actually telling the truth, that he has a very troubled knee? Would you risk aggravating it by committing to a full-on spring racing schedule?


----------



## atpjunkie (Mar 23, 2002)

*agree as well*

way too early to tell and he's probably racing himslef into form as stated and probably taking it easy on the knee. Floyd may be too ready right now, it's all about peaking in July, what happens now is menaingless.
Now as much as I appreciate the 'old way' I'm not going to knock the method used to produce 7 consecutive wins. Seems like those #'s and training camps and scouting out the parcourse did somebody pretty right.
What I do find amusing is without LA to bash everyone seems to pile on Jan now.

Go Kaiser!!!!


----------



## chuckice (Aug 25, 2004)

rocco said:


>


----------



## mohair_chair (Oct 3, 2002)

Where you been? People have been bashing Ullrich since at least 1998, when he practically cried on the Galibier, then afterwards when his personal problems seemed to affect his talent. He got a lot of terrible advice over the years, and it didn't do him much good.


----------



## Argentius (Aug 26, 2004)

"NOW YOU FAST." -- Der Jan

anyone else chuckle at that giant commercial on cycling.tv?


----------



## atpjunkie (Mar 23, 2002)

*Been here f'rever*

and aware people have been piling on Jan for his (weight, lack of motivation, he's the most naturally talented but... etc...) over the years. It just seems without LA to bash, Jan now seems to get the full drubbing. Maybe it's a sign he'll win as seems like the guy people bash the most winds up on top.


----------



## fastfullback (Feb 9, 2005)

You may be right, atp. I think Jan gets piled on because he's so physically impressive when he does have it together... his gifts make it hard to believe that he's not dominant. 

I'd like to see him win. I think he did the right thing in taking it easy and riding for miles. I also think he can do better than stealing hairstyles from Def Leppard's drummer.


----------



## Francis Cebedo (Aug 1, 2001)

What's pretty impressive with me is how the team can just focus on one race for the sponsors. It seems like all other teams are going nuts getting a podium here and there, a breakaway, anything!

And here's T-mobile. Don't seem to give a damn about any other race than the TDF. It's good for racers that they have a solid sponsor.

I like Jan so this is no knock on him. If I were a sponsor though... which team with I go with... T-mobile or CSC. Hmmmmmm.

francois


----------



## R.Rice (Aug 23, 2004)

goose127 said:


> Jan will be a contender come tour time, but how much of one remains to be seen. He is 32, not old, but certainly not young and the body does not adjust as quickly as it would have 10 years ago. I just don't understand why he lets his fitness get so bad. I think it is one thing if he did not contend in this race, its another when you are getting whipped every day. Valverde, Basso, Landis, Leipheimer...all of these guys look like they have stepped it up a notch, maybe they will blow up come July. This much is clear, Jan is a long ways away from being in the kind of form that gets you in yellow come July. I won't say he can't do it, but it sure does not look likely.



Just wondering,where are you getting your info?You seem very sure of yourself and are making it seem that you know for certain his form is bad.

Has the thought crossed your mind that this race actually meant nothing to him?Like Bianchigirl said, maybe he is riding himself into form.One could argue from the pics and video that he really didn't look to be working at all in the prologue and ITT.

This wasn't his race.His race is still several weeks away.We'll have to wait until then to be certain how strong he is.


----------



## spookyload (Jan 30, 2004)

All this hype sounds familiar. Someone mentioin Lance and Ventoux. Everyone was certain Lance would lose that tour because he finished so far behind Iban Mayo that year. Mayo was to crush US Postal single handedly that year. Guess what...he DNF'd. The tour isn't won in April, May, or June...it is won in July. If you are in peak race form in April, you chance of TDF victory is slim. This may not have always been the rule as Eddy and Hinault dominated the full season, but those are days gone by. The teams focus so much on this one race that they will sacrafice the smaller races, including the Giro for victory in July. If Basso does win in the Giro, which I don't think he will be trying to do, then I would give hime a 1 in 10 shot at the Tour in July. Jan wants to win the Tour, then retire and sleep with lots of pretty women while doing whatever recreational drugs he choses for the rest of his life. He is focused on only this one thing in my opinion.


----------



## chuckice (Aug 25, 2004)

spookyload said:


> All this hype sounds familiar. Someone mentioin Lance and Ventoux. Everyone was certain Lance would lose that tour because he finished so far behind Iban Mayo that year. Mayo was to crush US Postal single handedly that year. Guess what...he DNF'd. The tour isn't won in April, May, or June...it is won in July. If you are in peak race form in April, you chance of TDF victory is slim. This may not have always been the rule as Eddy and Hinault dominated the full season, but those are days gone by. The teams focus so much on this one race that they will sacrafice the smaller races, including the Giro for victory in July. If Basso does win in the Giro, which I don't think he will be trying to do, then I would give hime a 1 in 10 shot at the Tour in July. Jan wants to win the Tour, then retire and sleep with lots of pretty women while doing whatever recreational drugs he choses for the rest of his life. He is focused on only this one thing in my opinion.


there is no way basso is treating the giro as training...he wants to win it very badly. he wants the double just like the pirate.


----------



## mav616 (Mar 30, 2006)

spookyload said:


> All this hype sounds familiar. Someone mentioin Lance and Ventoux. Everyone was certain Lance would lose that tour because he finished so far behind Iban Mayo that year. Mayo was to crush US Postal single handedly that year. Guess what...he DNF'd. The tour isn't won in April, May, or June...it is won in July. If you are in peak race form in April, you chance of TDF victory is slim. This may not have always been the rule as Eddy and Hinault dominated the full season, but those are days gone by. The teams focus so much on this one race that they will sacrafice the smaller races, including the Giro for victory in July. If Basso does win in the Giro, which I don't think he will be trying to do, then I would give hime a 1 in 10 shot at the Tour in July. Jan wants to win the Tour, then retire and sleep with lots of pretty women while doing whatever recreational drugs he choses for the rest of his life. He is focused on only this one thing in my opinion.


Wow, very well put. My hope is that if Der Kaiser does win the big one in July that he would stick around for another year or so...Concerning the Giro, I think Paolo has his heart set on a repeat and gets one up on Simoni...


----------



## reklar (Mar 15, 2003)

mohair_chair said:


> He got a lot of terrible advice over the years, and it didn't do him much good.


Correction: He took a lot of bad advice over the years. Pretty much everyone gets a lot of bad advice...

I find it hard to believe that all these cycling greats are wrong about Jan. He has a *lot* of talent. He tries to ride his way into shape every year too late. If he didn't do that, I think his results would be better (not that they are bad!). You see this type of thing much more in pro team sports in the US where the most talented player's team doesn't always win. It typically takes the combination of smarts, hard work, talent and maybe a bit of luck to win at the highest levels of any sport. Jan lacks a bit on the work ethic as compared to some and his decision making has been questionable. 

Seems like he was motivated this year, but his knee has been bothering so he's back to trying to ride his way back into shape again. This can't bode well for him this year...too bad if so...am still hoping to see him duke it out w/ Basso...


----------



## Der Kranz (Jun 14, 2005)

Jan wants to win the Tour, then retire and sleep with lots of pretty women while doing whatever recreational drugs he choses for the rest of his life. He is focused on only this one thing in my opinion.[/QUOTE]

...and just who the hell could argue with that?


----------



## Der Kranz (Jun 14, 2005)

Jan wants to win the Tour, then retire and sleep with lots of pretty women while doing whatever recreational drugs he choses for the rest of his life.QUOTE]

...and just who the hell could argue with that?


----------



## 55x11 (Apr 24, 2006)

spookyload said:


> All this hype sounds familiar. Someone mentioin Lance and Ventoux. Everyone was certain Lance would lose that tour because he finished so far behind Iban Mayo that year. Mayo was to crush US Postal single handedly that year. Guess what...he DNF'd. The tour isn't won in April, May, or June...it is won in July. If you are in peak race form in April, you chance of TDF victory is slim. This may not have always been the rule as Eddy and Hinault dominated the full season, but those are days gone by. The teams focus so much on this one race that they will sacrafice the smaller races, including the Giro for victory in July. If Basso does win in the Giro, which I don't think he will be trying to do, then I would give hime a 1 in 10 shot at the Tour in July. Jan wants to win the Tour, then retire and sleep with lots of pretty women while doing whatever recreational drugs he choses for the rest of his life. He is focused on only this one thing in my opinion.


I totally agree. This is why I think Basso is a fool to try to go for Giro. So is Cadel Evans. Doesn't matter for Ulrich since he is riding himself into good shape.

This is also why Landis is overrated by US public - just because he can hang on with Tommy D in Georgia doesn't mean he will podium in Paris. The man has been peaking since March, it's not going to last.

Same goes for Valverde - his shape comes a bit too late for classics (he still scored two final ones!), but too early for Tour. 

The Tour is regularly decided by people we haven't heard from all spring. Guys like Vino, Mechnov, Popo, Ulle will be there in top shape. Basso has talent, as does Cunego and Valverde, and to some degree even Landis. But trying to race all season long will put them at disadvantage at the tour. They have to be head above shoulders to be able to win given this type of disadvantage.


----------



## Einstruzende (Jun 1, 2004)

Argentius said:


> "NOW YOU FAST." -- Der Jan
> 
> anyone else chuckle at that giant commercial on cycling.tv?


I actually had to listen to it a couple of times before I could figure out what he was saying. That is the first time i've ever actually heard his voice.


----------



## tricycletalent (Apr 2, 2005)

Bianchigirl said:


> You know what - there was a time when riders actually _raced themselves into form_! Imagine that! I appreciate it must be difficult if you're a newcomer to the sport and assume that great feats can only come as a result of spending all your time in far flung training camps issuing enigmatic statements about your progress and 'numbers' through PRs, but getting racing kilometres in the legs worked just fine for the likes of Merckx, Hinault and Lemond. And, as fans, we get the chance to actually assess a rider's form on the road rather than making educated guesses based on VO2 max and the like.
> 
> This approach has always worked better for Ullrich - I seem to recall that Kelly preferred having to actually race rather than train all the time because there were too many distractions when training and racing focussed his mind better.


How many marathons are the greatest kenyans running a season to get into top shape? Marathon running and cycling are extreme endurance sports. Riders who do a lot of racers do it for the money, their sponsors or cos they have greater chance winning small stupid races early on. Eddy Mercx was a once-in-a-century talent riding against low-level competition relative to today's pros. So the fact that he raced all season proves nothing but low scientific sportsphysiology standards at that time.

As regards Ullrich, there are 2 ways to get knee pain. Increasing workload too fast and increasing workload too fast. Either he is trying to make up for sluggish work in the winter season, or he has cronically put in too much, which is perfectly understandable considering that Lance is (finally) gone.


----------



## spookyload (Jan 30, 2004)

tricycletalent said:


> How many marathons are the greatest kenyans running a season to get into top shape? Marathon running and cycling are extreme endurance sports. Riders who do a lot of racers do it for the money, their sponsors or cos they have greater chance winning small stupid races early on. Eddy Mercx was a once-in-a-century talent riding against low-level competition relative to today's pros. So the fact that he raced all season proves nothing but low scientific sportsphysiology standards at that time.
> 
> As regards Ullrich, there are 2 ways to get knee pain. Increasing workload too fast and increasing workload too fast. Either he is trying to make up for sluggish work in the winter season, or he has cronically put in too much, which is perfectly understandable considering that Lance is (finally) gone.


Those are the only two reasons to get knee pain??? How about new shoes that don't work out, a crash that causes damage, or twisting your knee while doing anything (skating, bowling, mowing the grass, slipping on ice, etc). There are lots of ways to hurt your knee, and I am pretty sure Jan has enough professional coaches watching him to have it caused by training wrong. Nicole Cooke had knee problems two years ago, hers stemmed from a minor crash and the soreness never went away. Had to have surgery to fix her knee.


----------



## Bianchigirl (Sep 17, 2004)

tricycletalent said:


> Eddy Mercx was a once-in-a-century talent riding against low-level competition relative to today's pros. So the fact that he raced all season proves nothing but low scientific sportsphysiology standards at that time.


Tricycletalent, could I beg and implore you to actually read up on Merckx's era and the talent against which he raced - Merckx's 'low level competition' consisteed of some of the greatest cyclists of all time. Arguably, the poorest competition faced by any multiple Tour winner has been that of Armstrong. Fact check before you post stuff like this, will you?


----------



## ultimobici (Jul 16, 2005)

tricycletalent said:


> Eddy Mercx was a once-in-a-century talent riding against low-level competition relative to today's pros. So the fact that he raced all season proves nothing but low scientific sportsphysiology standards at that time.


Gimondi, De Vlaeminck, Maertens & Ocana were far from low level competition. Not only were they worthy adversaries of Merckx and each other, but they were professional in their approach to the season. The same is hard to say about the "Ginger Mullet". 

JU will stuff up in the Tour as he has done nigh on every year since 97. It is such a waste of talent that it's painful to watch. Between lack of preparation, excess weight and accidents JU has demonstrated to me that he couldn't organise a piss up in a brewery. I hope he proves me wrong, but I'm not holding my breath.


----------



## terzo rene (Mar 23, 2002)

Bianchigirl said:


> Tricycletalent, could I beg and implore you to actually read up on Merckx's era and the talent against which he raced - Merckx's 'low level competition' consisteed of some of the greatest cyclists of all time. Arguably, the poorest competition faced by any multiple Tour winner has been that of Armstrong. Fact check before you post stuff like this, will you?


Eddy himself has said the talent today is better and deeper than in his era simply because of the size of the talent pool they were drawn from. Riders in his era came from only a handful of [small] countries and today they come from all over Europe and the Americas. Just look at the TdF standings last year and take out all the E. Europeans and N. and S. Americans. The top 20 takes some serious hits, 2 of the top 3 for starters.

A continental team signed the first Chinese pro this year and with a billion plus rolls of the genetic dice (and improved infrastructure for them to ride on) the odds are pretty good that we will be seeing several Cannibals battling it out at the same time in a few decades.


----------



## tricycletalent (Apr 2, 2005)

spookyload said:


> Those are the only two reasons to get knee pain??? How about new shoes that don't work out, a crash that causes damage, or twisting your knee while doing anything (skating, bowling, mowing the grass, slipping on ice, etc). There are lots of ways to hurt your knee, and I am pretty sure Jan has enough professional coaches watching him to have it caused by training wrong. Nicole Cooke had knee problems two years ago, hers stemmed from a minor crash and the soreness never went away. Had to have surgery to fix her knee.


Oh gawd damn how could I have been so relentless? Oh, ****, please mr. nitpicker pour on all your knowledge from your orthopedics residency. Tell me all about contusions, torsions, torn ligaments, oh and not forget rheumatic diseases, ++ you can probably get knee pain from infections as well, like migratory polyartheritis and the fock I know what you can all get. I guess my mind musta slipped coz I focused on the _knee pain resulting from strenuous excercise_. Thought just crossed my mind, that might be the problem. Der Kaiser has stated he started training earlier this year, so I kinda figured he had overdone it. Muscle adapts fast, but tendons don't due to slow collagen turnover, so it might have been a case of "overeager Ullrich" this year and not "fat, french fries with chocolate and bratwurst-eating Ullrich" Or both, although he _looks_ fit.

As for what Bianchigirl is saying: C'mon girl, 4 real. Being over-hyped and legendary doesn't put watts on the power meter. Eddy was way outta everybody else's league. Even LeMond wasn't that dominant, even though his VO2 max levels were amazing, to say the least. And level has just increased, especially after introducing ways of tampering oxygen transport with EPO and its derivatives. Riding everything just doesn't work anymore, coz it simply aint the best way. Even on the best juice you can afford for price money, you just don't race all season if you wanna be good in july. So let's just label your little theory a st00pid predjudice. "Jan is "#¤% coz he aint riding enuff races." My a$$. Look at the best marathon runners damnit! Are they doing 1000 runs a year? Ich don't think zo. But they would, if they could, because of the money. But they can't, coz the level is too high. My bet is that the level has gotten too high in cycling as well.


----------

