# Team Tactics in Gravel Racing... Fair or Unfair?



## Rashadabd (Sep 17, 2011)

Tom Danielson wants your sympathy for breaking the spirit of gravel racing. Don't give it to him


Cinch team tactics called into question as women's gravel racing reaches a seminal point




www.cyclingnews.com


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## velodog (Sep 26, 2007)

Is it fair to have a young man operate the bellows so the cyclist can repair his fork?

Is it cheating to accelerate when your opponent, and leader of the race, has a mechanical?

Is Tom Danielson a Douche Bag?


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## Coolhand (Jul 28, 2002)

No, No, and most certainly.


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## thatsmybush (Mar 12, 2002)

Tom Danielson is a doper who deserves nothing but scorn.

As for fair or unfair, I say it is foul and use the women's marathon as an example. There is a reason why the women start 15 minutes behind the men. Pacing, drafting are still a thing in running and ten times more so in cycling. It took that seperation to halt some women from benefiting from pacers/drafters.

I don't know what the answer is in gravel racing, because 15 minutes would just mean that some men would soft pedal until caught, but there has to be something that says, that this is a race not a sheparding for some and a solo effort for others.

The upshot is, I would expect a known cheater like Danielson to adopt morally ambigous and questionable tactics whether they are against the letter or spirit of the rules or not.


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## Finx (Oct 19, 2017)

It was bound to happen, and it sucks. Gravel Racing is getting more popular, and notoriety and likely money will be at stake.

The only solution to what Cinch did is going to be to separate the fields by gender and possibly even classes to prevent this kind of nonsense. This will make the logistics of race planners much more difficult (and expensive).


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## mgringle (May 20, 2011)

I am not a fan of Tom D (AT ALL) but always applaud a team that finds a way to get an advantage _within_ the rules. This happens in motorsports all the time where a race car shows up at an event, with something so ingenious, that it totally dominates until there is a rule change that outlaws it. Did Cinch use morally ambiguous and questionable tactics? Absolutely. Illegal? I'm hearing not. The question now is whether the rules will be changed to outlaw/discourage such "tactics". We can hate on Tom D for being the trash he is, but now the real burden lies with the governing body. Sadly, we are past the days when we can all race as ladies and gentleman and expect to compete within the spirit of the rules. These days if it's not illegal, it's legal.


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## captain anonymous (Aug 30, 2021)

The real crime is making gravel events into racing events. Gravel events should be 100% fondo events. Sure, log the order people cross the finish line. But no medals, no podiums, no prizes for placing. Fun for everyone. Pro racing sucks the life out of everything it touches. Have done dozens and dozens of gravel fondos. So much fun...


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## thatsmybush (Mar 12, 2002)

Gravel races are a go to for me now. Since I stay off the roads completely except for triathlon race days.

I like my medals, want to see podiums and prizes for placing. As the roads get more and more perilous, gravel is the growth sport cycling needs.


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## Finx (Oct 19, 2017)

captain anonymous said:


> The real crime is making gravel events into racing events. Gravel events should be 100% fondo events. Sure, log the order people cross the finish line. But no medals, no podiums, no prizes for placing. Fun for everyone. Pro racing sucks the life out of everything it touches. Have done dozens and dozens of gravel fondos. So much fun...


That cat is out of the bag. Pros employed by world tour pro teams are showing up to gravel events. It's not going to get better...


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## El Scorcho (Dec 14, 2005)

What is keeping any of the women in these races from drafting men? 
The only answer is to separate start times as was mentioned above, and maybe the way to get that done is through wining and complaining about something that is, right now, not illegal.


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## Finx (Oct 19, 2017)

Women do draft men, and have since these things have been competitive. For that matter men draft women too. That isn't really the issue at hand.

Cinch entered a group of men into the race who had no intention of winning, or competing. Their sole purpose was to be domestiques for Lauren De Crescenzo. They drafted for her, brought her food/water, etc.. It may not have happened, but it's likely they may have swapped wheels or bikes, or otherwise assisted her in the event of a mechanical as well.

None of those things are against the rules, and it would be hard to enforce unless they did it blatantly (i.e everyone wearing the same jersey, etc..). 

I think what most people, including me, are complaining about is that it goes against the spirit of a *solo*, self supported gravel race.


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## Marc (Jan 23, 2005)

captain anonymous said:


> The real crime is making gravel events into racing events. Gravel events should be 100% fondo events. Sure, log the order people cross the finish line. But no medals, no podiums, no prizes for placing. Fun for everyone. Pro racing sucks the life out of everything it touches. Have done dozens and dozens of gravel fondos. So much fun...


Most of them were that way to start with, for the most part. I have to laugh HARD at my local gravel race Gravel Worlds. Public roads. no SAG. No ethical/moral responsibility for anything that happens on course. No medical. No body-wagon if you DNF. Nothing but a number at the start and a coffee cup--costs $100USD. And they sellout all numbers within an hour. The organizers are nice guys--but seriously WTF.

People can and do say a lot about RAGRAI and the like--but at least you get something for your money.


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## Rashadabd (Sep 17, 2011)

Finx said:


> Women do draft men, and have since these things have been competitive. For that matter men draft women too. That isn't really the issue at hand.
> 
> Cinch entered a group of men into the race who had no intention of winning, or competing. Their sole purpose was to be domestiques for Lauren De Crescenzo. They drafted for her, brought her food/water, etc.. It may not have happened, but it's likely they may have swapped wheels or bikes, or otherwise assisted her in the event of a mechanical as well.
> 
> ...


This is exactly where I am on this. You know what you did was out of bounds or you don't need to go out on social media and tell some sob story about how you were wronged in my opinion. I am actually shocked by the fact that the team is surprised by how the gravel racing community responded.


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## Rashadabd (Sep 17, 2011)

thatsmybush said:


> Gravel races are a go to for me now. Since I stay off the roads completely except for triathlon race days.
> 
> I like my medals, want to see podiums and prizes for placing. As the roads get more and more perilous, gravel is the growth sport cycling needs.


I agree with this too.


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