# Weelset/bike question...getteing a new bike from BD



## popsi (Aug 5, 2007)

Hopefully someone here can help me...

I'm buying a bike from BD but cannot decide between these two bikes:


Mercier LTD 20
or
Motobecane Le Champ

The "problem" is my weight, 6'3" at 225 lbs I am not sure if the american classics 420 will support me. I really like the setup of the Champ, with compact cranks and all. But maybe the Ritchey protocols on the Mercier are better?? 

What you all think, which bike should I get


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## sonex305 (Jun 17, 2007)

Get the Le Champion. If nothing else, you can sell the wheels on eBay and get a different set. You will still have money left over in the end. The AC wheels are worth more, I believe. I think I have seen some others around your size riding on the AC wheels without a problem. Either way, good luck. If you look at a couple other threads around here, people are really happy with their Le Champions.


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## simonton (Mar 11, 2007)

I have not ridden the 420's, but sonex's advise is spot on. These are excellent wheels and the price is superb. I do not think you will have a weight problem. You could check American Classic's website and see if there is a weight limit. If there is they would be very easy to sell for good $$ brand new.
The le Champion is an excellent buy right now.


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## popsi (Aug 5, 2007)

Thanks, I believe I'll pick the Champ

I went to the Am Classic site, they do have a wight limit around my wight...But hopefully it's just a suggested limit and the weels will hold. At least I'll give em some rides first

Limits shown here


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## Bertrand (Feb 1, 2005)

I would suggest taking the wheels to a LBS to check that the spokes are properly tensioned before you take the bike out. Alternatively, you could swap the spokes out for Sapim X-Rays. At the price you're paying for the bike, it would constitute only a little more expense, and you wouldn't have to worry about a weight restriction. 

I have an '05 Champ SL that came with AC 350s. The wheelbuild was poor, and the wheels had to be re-trued about every 2 months. The front hub also gave out after about 1,000 km, but I think that AC has addressed the hub durability problems in the meantime.


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## Lifelover (Jul 8, 2004)

*Why?*



popsi said:


> ...But hopefully it's just a suggested limit and the weels will hold. At least I'll give em some rides first..



Why in the heck would you WANT to ride wheels that are the slightest bit questionable?

This train of thought might explain why you are buying Moto/Mercier in the first place.

Get the Mercier if you feel that you have to buy from BD. I suspect there is not a Rat's A$$ difference in the 2 frames.


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## Bertrand (Feb 1, 2005)

*I agree*

I think the Mercier might be a better setup for you. Components are just as good as the MB, (brakes are better) and the wheels might be sturdier. I'd still take them in to check the spoke tension. I also agree that the frames would be very equivalent. I bet the geometry is identical. 

The gearing wouldn't be that much different between the two bikes: the 39/27 on the Mercier will give you a low of 39 inches, and the 36/23 combo on the MB is actually higher-geared at 42 inches. However, if you want lower gearing, it would be cheaper to change the cluster or the small chainring on the MB, as opposed to changing the crankset on the Mercier. 




Lifelover said:


> Why in the heck would you WANT to ride wheels that are the slightest bit questionable?
> 
> This train of thought might explain why you are buying Moto/Mercier in the first place.
> 
> Get the Mercier if you feel that you have to buy from BD. I suspect there is not a Rat's A$$ difference in the 2 frames.


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## popsi (Aug 5, 2007)

Lifelover said:


> Why in the heck would you WANT to ride wheels that are the slightest bit questionable?
> 
> This train of thought might explain why you are buying Moto/Mercier in the first place.
> 
> Get the Mercier if you feel that you have to buy from BD. I suspect there is not a Rat's A$$ difference in the 2 frames.


Another BD lover I see  
Well, it's noted. The fact that I can sell the 420s pretty easy and buy a new set if they don't work out, that's not a problem either...
I'm actually shipping the bike to Norway (where I live) and a bike with the same specs easily adds up to $3-4000.

And I know a lot of other manufacturers get their frames same place as Motocabene/Mercier.

ex. Maxway and Kinesis

I do not believe these are worse fames than many other well known brands....:idea:


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## simonton (Mar 11, 2007)

I imagine the frames are similar in their ride qualities as the specs are close, but they are certainly different. If look at the Merceir and motobecane websites there are differences in the geometries of the two bikes. The Mercier has external bearings in the bottom bracket (I would rank that as a plus). It also has columbus aero tubing. The Motobecane's frame is well known and has a good reputation. The motobecane has a carbon steerer; where as the mercer is aluminum, plus to the motobecane. Both bikes have the same set of brakes. I think the AC 420's are a better wheel set than the Ritchey protocols and that is what would tip it for me.


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## Lifelover (Jul 8, 2004)

simonton said:


> ... The motobecane has a carbon steerer; where as the mercer is aluminum, plus to the motobecane....


Exactly how does a CF steerer tube benefit a 225 lb rec rider?


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## Oversane (Mar 31, 2007)

I have the 06' Le Champion with Protocols. I am 5'8" and 147 lbs so I just can't comment on the wheels or the stresses that you would put on them based on our weight difference.

But the carbon stays on the Le Champion do absorb road noise better than a full aluminum. I've ridden with several people who ride much nicer full aluminum bikes that are much nicer than my Le Champion and they always ask me about the carbon stays and they regret not getting something similar or something full carbon.


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## popsi (Aug 5, 2007)

Thanks for all the input...
After reading a lot of posts regarding both the AC wheels and FSA&ISIS combo, I believe the full ultegra gruppo and ritchey wheels will be a better choice for me. 

Read a couple of Norwegian test and the AC wheels are not recommended here. People had problems both with water/rain and the sealed bearings not holding up.

The Ritchey weels are stornger and I guess they suit my wight better.


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## simonton (Mar 11, 2007)

Exactly how does a CF steerer tube benefit a 225 lb rec rider?

Well it is lighter. I guess you are thinking that it might be more prone to failure and you may be correct. However, I have not seen weight limits for carbon steerers (they may exist, I just have not seen them.) I believe the weak point in carbon tubes is from compression of the fibers when tightening. I know both aluminum and carbon frame tubes have failed. It seems that aluminum tubes are a bit more prone to stress fractures. That's what I know-albeit limited.


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## Lifelover (Jul 8, 2004)

simonton said:


> Exactly how does a CF steerer tube benefit a 225 lb rec rider?
> 
> Well it is lighter. I guess you are thinking that it might be more prone to failure and you may be correct. However, I have not seen weight limits for carbon steerers (they may exist, I just have not seen them.) I believe the weak point in carbon tubes is from compression of the fibers when tightening. I know both aluminum and carbon frame tubes have failed. It seems that aluminum tubes are a bit more prone to stress fractures. That's what I know-albeit limited.


How much less does the "Aero Kinesis SL (FC440) High Modulus Carbon Fiber with Carbon Steerer 1.125 inch" weight than the "High Modulus Aero Carbon Fiber Integrated with 1.125 inch Aluminum steerer"?


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## simonton (Mar 11, 2007)

I looked at weight weenies and there were two forks which appeared to only have the difference of the CF v. Al steerer. Both were about 60g lighter with the CF. I had thought based on bike weights that I had read that the CF had a greater contribution.


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## popsi (Aug 5, 2007)

But the CF steerer should contribute to a "softer" ride too... correct me if I'm wrong


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## Bocephus Jones II (Oct 7, 2004)

popsi said:


> But the CF steerer should contribute to a "softer" ride too... correct me if I'm wrong


You are wrong. About all it influences is weight.


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## popsi (Aug 5, 2007)

Found another bike at Ebay... guess it's another BD brand. What do you guys think...

BOTTECCHIA FULL CARBON w/ULTEGRA ROAD RACING BIKE

Would this be a better deal? VUELTA XRP PRO (never heard of, but they got more spokes..)


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## simonton (Mar 11, 2007)

This is a BD offering which is only available on ebay. My son has those wheels-I am not at all impressed, heavy and they do not appear to have the best build quality. 
This is a different CF frame from the immortal series and I do not know anything about it.


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## Lifelover (Jul 8, 2004)

simonton said:


> I looked at weight weenies and there were two forks which appeared to only have the difference of the CF v. Al steerer. Both were about 60g lighter with the CF. I had thought based on bike weights that I had read that the CF had a greater contribution.


2 oz. That figure is only meaningful if we are talking about weed. 

I would have guessed 8 oz but that still would not make ANY difference to a rec rider.


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## simonton (Mar 11, 2007)

I had guessed about 1/2 a pound too, but I wanted to find something to back it up. There were two sets of forks listed on weight weenies with approximately 60g differences. I also found a set of forks which seemed to be the same at performance with a greater difference, but I am not sure of the exact number. None of these numbers pertained to the forks in question because I have no idea what their weights are. Perhaps you are right that 8 oz does not make a difference, but if the cost is equal I will take the 8oz lighter as a plus. I have no reason to mistrust a carbon steerer over an aluminum one, and I guess you do. I'm pretty new to this stuff and I am sure I could be mistaken.


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## Lifelover (Jul 8, 2004)

*When benefits are equal, than weigh risk*



simonton said:


> I had guessed about 1/2 a pound too, but I wanted to find something to back it up. There were two sets of forks listed on weight weenies with approximately 60g differences. I also found a set of forks which seemed to be the same at performance with a greater difference, but I am not sure of the exact number. None of these numbers pertained to the forks in question because I have no idea what their weights are. Perhaps you are right that 8 oz does not make a difference, but if the cost is equal I will take the 8oz lighter as a plus. I have no reason to mistrust a carbon steerer over an aluminum one, and I guess you do. I'm pretty new to this stuff and I am sure I could be mistaken.



You mentioned the only concern with the CF. Crushing. 

With 8 ounces, there just is no benefit at all to speak of.

With no benefit, even the slightest risk is not worth taking.


Exact same philosophy I have towards BD in general.


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## popsi (Aug 5, 2007)

Thanks everybody...
I guess I'll be the lucky owner of a Motobecane Le Champ, order placed at BD earlier today.
If the wheels don't hold up I'll just swap em out. I've spent several hours reading the net and you'll find both pros and cons about the ac-wheels.


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## sonex305 (Jun 17, 2007)

Lifelover said:


> Exact same philosophy I have towards BD in general.


We all know. You have made your opinions well known so restating it does no good, but thanks for playing. :mad2:


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