# Verbal abuse on 3rd club race



## WingNut (Oct 12, 2005)

I've recently started racing with the local cycle club. Turned up for my 3rd race on Saturday. During the event I was leading a bunch as we went round a corner, cornering meant the wind changed from head on to coming from R shoulder. Previously had been rotating Rightwise, I got a call to pull over and pulled to the Left, unfortunately in front of the rider coming thru (group had before that rotated from the Right side). I didn't realise the rotation would change depending on the wind. An inexperience error, on my part, no injuries, no bikes hit, no slowing, no one fell. 
But the verbal abuse I suffered from the rider was way out of line. Repeated use of the f word and high-pitched screaming, followed by more use of the f-word and more screaming... you get the picture. I want to race and learn more but have better things to do with my Saturday than be abused like this. It's a small club and the riders were well aware that I was new and learning. After the race another rider in the bunch apologised for the abusers behaviour and politely explained how rotating and the wind works. 
What to do? Do clubs have rules about this behaviour? Any similar experieinces appreciated...


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## Fignon's Barber (Mar 2, 2004)

don't let it bother you. First off, one of the more experienced riders should have taken charge and signaled the change of direction. Secondly, in cycle racing you can't be so sensitive.


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## CaseLawZ28 (Jul 14, 2005)

It's like the army or boot camp. They help you grow and learn by yelling at you. 

Now get back out there biker!

I'd have told him to shove it.


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## MR_GRUMPY (Aug 21, 2002)

Some people just like to yell a lot. It makes them feel more "manly".
When someone comes down on me, I usually start off with a quick "HEY", followed by a J.F.C., and finished by a "Be careful there".


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## Ridgetop (Mar 1, 2005)

Pull him aside and "talk" to him. I don't care how much someone screws up, if no one got hurt, it wasn't worth more than one "f#@kin' idiot!".


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## Argentius (Aug 26, 2004)

JFC -- Just Fvcking Chill?


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## Keeping up with Junior (Feb 27, 2003)

*School Yard*



WingNut said:


> ...What to do? Do clubs have rules about this behaviour? Any similar experieinces appreciated...


Well you should have learned how to deal with this on the school yard when you were a kid. You did have a bully at your school? Simply ignore or respond. If I chose not to ignore someone in a race I would typically respond _aren't you fast enough to not be sitting on my wheel?_ or perhaps _if you are so good why are you still racing Cat. 5?_. 

Remember that other riders may be on the rivet and when their safety is perceived to be endangered they may react emotionally rather than logically. Also keep in mind that you may be getting yelled at because you made a mistake. That does not justify excessive verbal abuse but at the same time you need to ask yourself (or someone with knowledge that is a bit more calm) what you did wrong and how to correct it.


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## MR_GRUMPY (Aug 21, 2002)

Christ !


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## bahueh (May 11, 2004)

*tell the jerk..*



WingNut said:


> I've recently started racing with the local cycle club. Turned up for my 3rd race on Saturday. During the event I was leading a bunch as we went round a corner, cornering meant the wind changed from head on to coming from R shoulder. Previously had been rotating Rightwise, I got a call to pull over and pulled to the Left, unfortunately in front of the rider coming thru (group had before that rotated from the Right side). I didn't realise the rotation would change depending on the wind. An inexperience error, on my part, no injuries, no bikes hit, no slowing, no one fell.
> But the verbal abuse I suffered from the rider was way out of line. Repeated use of the f word and high-pitched screaming, followed by more use of the f-word and more screaming... you get the picture. I want to race and learn more but have better things to do with my Saturday than be abused like this. It's a small club and the riders were well aware that I was new and learning. After the race another rider in the bunch apologised for the abusers behaviour and politely explained how rotating and the wind works.
> What to do? Do clubs have rules about this behaviour? Any similar experieinces appreciated...



to stick it. he's no better, just more experienced. if no one was hurt, no bikes were damaged, and it only caused one guy some inconvenience, you're fine. just learn from teh situation. as to whether or not to go back to this club is up to you...
I'd personally talk to a different rider who was there and discuss the situation...you can diffuse it from many different ends. if you race with him, sit on his wheel the whole time and smoke him at the line (my personal preference). its a club right, its not a prime packed crit or the end of the world. riders on the local circuit here might have even found such a jerk in the parking lot afterwards...that sh*t isn't tolerated. ride with the other rider who was willing to explain. I'm guessing the same guy had a talk with ass-boy also... I would.


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## bauerb (Jan 18, 2006)

*diffuse*

if you want to keep riding with these guys, talk to the jerk that yelled at you: in a joking tone: " hey Bob, you sure got pretty excited when I screwed up and rototated off the right, I sure learned that lesson quick. is there anything else I need to know about pacelines"

if you don't reach-out, a jerk like that with a chip on his shoulder will probably maintain a rift between you. taht doesn't work well in a team sport




bahueh said:


> to stick it. he's no better, just more experienced. if no one was hurt, no bikes were damaged, and it only caused one guy some inconvenience, you're fine. just learn from teh situation. as to whether or not to go back to this club is up to you...
> I'd personally talk to a different rider who was there and discuss the situation...you can diffuse it from many different ends. if you race with him, sit on his wheel the whole time and smoke him at the line (my personal preference). its a club right, its not a prime packed crit or the end of the world. riders on the local circuit here might have even found such a jerk in the parking lot afterwards...that sh*t isn't tolerated. ride with the other rider who was willing to explain. I'm guessing the same guy had a talk with ass-boy also... I would.


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## JayTee (Feb 3, 2004)

I don't race but do a lot of group riding. My biggest explosion at another rider was when she screwed up in a pace line and nearly sent me to the deck. It was just sheer adrenaline misplaced as anger, and I apologized later. I certainly hope that if he isn't a complete jerk, he later felt embarrassed.


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## botto (Jul 22, 2005)

as jtolleson suggested with his post, it was probably just adrenaline that sparked the guy on.

if someone yells at me in a group ride/race i usually tell them to [email protected] off.

Once, in a race, some guy cut me off, and i yelled. he yelled back at me. a team mate shouted "hit him Otto", and i was so pumped (adrenaline from the near-miss-crash) that i _ALMOST_ did


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## tobu (Dec 19, 2004)

Don't worry too much. It's really difficult in a crosswind knowing the correct response or etiquette. Theoretically, you are supposed to pull off into the wind, but sometimes you don't change the rotating direction depending on the traffic conditions. Learning to ride a rotating paceline is difficult -- you see riders with years of experience accelerating their pulls or not soft pedaling when they pull off. Riding a cross wind echelon is even more difficult -- very few American riders have the skill to ride one correctly. You should know that every good rider has messed up in pacelines -- it's all part of learning to ride in groups. And just like in every group, you'll find all sorts of riders -- riders with class, big jerks, and everything in between.


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## cstx (Feb 21, 2006)

tobu said:


> Don't worry too much. It's really difficult in a crosswind knowing the correct response or etiquette. Theoretically, you are supposed to pull off into the wind, but sometimes you don't change the rotating direction depending on the traffic conditions. Learning to ride a rotating paceline is difficult -- you see riders with years of experience accelerating their pulls or not soft pedaling when they pull off. Riding a cross wind echelon is even more difficult -- very few American riders have the skill to ride one correctly. You should know that every good rider has messed up in pacelines -- it's all part of learning to ride in groups. And just like in every group, you'll find all sorts of riders -- riders with class, big jerks, and everything in between.




i wouldnt worry about it, the best thing is, he probably realized that he made an ass of himself in public. thats the cool thing about how life works - bad karma for him......you dont have to do anything


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## CaseLawZ28 (Jul 14, 2005)

Just say this to him: "Oh yea! Well I had sex with your wife!"

...and hope she's not in a coma.


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## eyebob (Feb 3, 2004)

*As jtolleson said,*



jtolleson said:


> I don't race but do a lot of group riding. My biggest explosion at another rider was when she screwed up in a pace line and nearly sent me to the deck. It was just sheer adrenaline misplaced as anger, and I apologized later. I certainly hope that if he isn't a complete jerk, he later felt embarrassed.


He hit it right on the head. Some moreons just have to yell. Mostly its mis-placed adreanaline rushes. Everything that goes around, comes around. If they're s******ing and/or angry after the fact, then they're un-happy people. Make a mental note. That dude probably just has other personal issues, or a small penis. or something else that makes him chronically angry.

Relax. I've been yelled at plenty o times, mostly for things that were legitimately my fault. All learning experiences. 

BT


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## Anti-gravity (Jul 16, 2004)

*Welcome to racing*

Everyone else has given good advice; sometimes races turn grown men in whiny, swearing little boys. I've ridden a few Cat4 races with some real vocal racers. My best advice it to hold your ground, and recognize your mistakes, if you are in fact the one in error. Sometimes you won't be and the person yelling at you is just an idiot; it's important to realize when you've effed up or the other guy is just a moron. In either case, it usually doesn't hurt to yell back at them (profanity optional) with either a "sorry, lighten up" or "shut the F up, I'm holding my effing line!"  

One race last season really pushed my buttons. Another racer kept yelling at me to hold my line throughout most of the race when on the contrary I was holding a pretty straight line and he was pinballing around in the pelaton. I knew I was riding straight, and two of my teammates said I was riding fine after we finished the race. So what did I do? I told him to shut the F up and for him to hold his line. He quit talking after that. Yeah, pretty immature, but he stopped yelling at me. I don't feel like my junk is bigger for saying that, nor I am I proud of myself. Just pointing out that sometimes you have fight fire with fire and realize it's all just an amatuer sport. The bottom line IMO is that no one is really being serious when they yell at other people; atleast not to the point that they are trying to personally insult you. I think everyone's primary concern in a race is to finish without a crash, which is a valid concern when you think about how dangerous 50+ riders going 30mph with inches between them is. 

If you enjoy the other aspects of racing, try not to let this get you down. Live, learn and don't be afraid to yell back  .


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## ghostrider64 (Mar 1, 2006)

Dude use this as a motivator...

Next time he is on your wheel be in good enough shape to drop his ass then yell back something to the effect of "whats wrong? Can't you hang you big (insert explative!)"    

I love being childish


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## Mr. MG (Aug 23, 2005)

*Memory loss?*

Blow it off.....that guy probably screwed up when he was just new to the sport.....maybe you could remind him that he was new at one time as well....who know you may soon be better and faster than him and then you have the upper hand.......some guys take the sport way to serrious.......I think he probably has a small set.... .the high pitched screaming......some day he may hit puberty.....


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## SkiRacer55 (Apr 29, 2005)

*Just tell him...*

he's not as stupid as he looks...


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## paint (Jul 25, 2005)

Just sounds like whining to me. Basically what I read is that one guy was mean to you and most others were in the range of indifferent to nice. So ignore the jerk and get to know the nicer folks. The jerk will piss you off enough for you to remember the mistakes you make and improve, and the nice guys will be there to encourage you when you feel like an idiotic beginner.


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## cmatcan (Oct 6, 2005)

honestly, you just need to keep in in perspective. obviously the other riders there thought the verbal abuse was a bit extreme as well, but the fact is, cycling is full of head-strong spazzes. really. if you want to do an activity where there is no learning curve, where mistakes don't cause injuries to others and where you can race right away, take up running. otherwise, get a thicker skin, and just make sure that you learn from your mistakes. soon enough you'll be the one helping new riders along as they gain experience in our great sport.


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## odeum (May 9, 2005)

or not in a coma just brain dead...

a junior development coach once spelled it out for us like this, in bike racing, most are in the zone with the task at hand, hopefuly. but...there are those whose tension levels rise and they express this kind of verbal behaviour. according to our coach, it is a waste of precious energy to do anything other than nod and comply, because when it comes down to it, near the line, you will not need to heed any advice given. also these verbal types, at least the offensive ones, are seldom a true concern to be a factor when it counts anyway.

getting yelled at can provide a valuable learing experience, both in terms of knowing what not to do and what to do. for instance, rotating seamlessly is a good skill, knowlege of this is beneficial to be provided with by any means...

other comments may be disregarded, for example, warnings you are going out too hard too early, if you wanna go then who is to stop you really, might shake 'em up but so what?

someone may yell to pull through or stay on the front longer, but you may avail yourself of a bit of a free ride, if not for the sake of saving it up for the line than just to hang when you are in way over your head...

i usualy respond with a reassuring nod and an "ok man, thanks, sorry", or the like, spoken real outta breath-like so it appears i'm near limit.

of course, if the guy wears his welcome out, the one ultimate warning i resort to has been
"expletive expletive expletive expletive expletive or i'll take us both down".







CaseLawZ28 said:


> Just say this to him: "Oh yea! Well I had sex with your wife!"
> 
> ...and hope she's not in a coma.


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## WingNut (Oct 12, 2005)

*Follow up 2.5yrs later*



WingNut said:


> I've recently started racing with the local cycle club. Turned up for my 3rd race on Saturday.....
> But the verbal abuse I suffered from the rider was way out of line. Repeated use of the f word and high-pitched screaming, followed by more use of the f-word and more screaming......


Just a comment - i've now been racing in the same club for 2.5yrs. The person who dished the verbal abuse is a well known offender, I have now progressed 3 categories ahead of him and can effortlessly kick his butt, he has not improved, but continues to verbally attack. My experience of this behavior in my early racing days has convinced me to never treat new riders like that: why scream, intimidate and abuse when encouragement and advice will achieve a good outcome and possibly an ally?


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## jsedlak (Jun 17, 2008)

May be a stupid question, but how can you feel a wind change from tail to diagonal? Or was the turn in such a manor that you knew what the wind would be doing? Maybe I haven't come across this yet, but I can only feel head and tail winds.


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## zpl (May 7, 2007)

What an awesome thread follow-up. Good for you.


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## WingNut (Oct 12, 2005)

jsedlak said:


> May be a stupid question, but how can you feel a wind change from tail to diagonal? Or was the turn in such a manor that you knew what the wind would be doing? Maybe I haven't come across this yet, but I can only feel head and tail winds.


you'll know it when you're in a crosswind


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## Creakyknees (Sep 21, 2003)

Thanks for the update... never saw this thread before, but for anyone who comes across it now:

1) since it was just a club race, the above advice is about it. But if the jerk pulled that kind of behavior in a USCF race, he could be DQ'd for "foul and abusive language" - I saw it happen this summer in a race I was in. Look it up in the rulebook ( I had to! )

2) re: crosswinds for jsedlak: Kind of both. If you're cruising with a headwind and turn right, you know it's going to be a crosswind from the left. But also as you're drafting someone, listen to the wind noise - one ear will be louder than the other. Move toward the quieter ear so you can find the sweet spot of the draft. If you're slightly to one side, that's becuase there's a crosswind.


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## dekindy (Jul 7, 2006)

I would not be concerned about the yelling. If it is very windy you need to yell to make sure you are heard.

Cussing is the sign of the times.

Cussing would bother me too but you have to take the good with the bad. I sometimes cuss while riding when I am hot and under heavy exertion that I would not normally do. Apparently you are normal as evidenced by someone from the group apologizing for it. Some people are extremely intense in competition and normal otherwise. If he acts like that outside the race then avoid him. 

Now that you know the rules, check the weather before the race and note the predicted direction and strength of the wind and verify by looking at flags, etc when you get to the race site. The wind can shift so you have to be aware of that also.

I go so fast that it always feels like a headwind! Not!


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## PlasticMotif (Aug 1, 2006)

Carry a thick rope in a jersey pocket and throw it in his back tire


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## burtronix (Jun 20, 2007)

I would have assumed it was just the 'roids talking - hema or ste or both - all the same effects. Makes a snappy comeback too: "Hey, what kind of 'roids are causing your hissy fit?"


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## Ivanhoe (Mar 21, 2008)

great follow-up Wingnut!


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## Cory (Jan 29, 2004)

Short explanation: There are more prix in bicycling than any other sport with the possible exception of downhill skiing. Don't let it bother you.


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## jsedlak (Jun 17, 2008)

Cory said:


> Short explanation: There are more prix in bicycling than any other sport with the possible exception of downhill skiing. Don't let it bother you.


I don't know, if we are talking perectages, I think Formula 1 takes the caek.


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## Cruzer2424 (Feb 8, 2005)

WingNut said:


> Just a comment - i've now been racing in the same club for 2.5yrs. The person who dished the verbal abuse is a well known offender, I have now progressed 3 categories ahead of him and can effortlessly kick his butt, he has not improved, but continues to verbally attack. My experience of this behavior in my early racing days has convinced me to never treat new riders like that: why scream, intimidate and abuse when encouragement and advice will achieve a good outcome and possibly an ally?


You are amazing, sir. I love hearing stories like this.


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## Tugboat (Jul 17, 2006)

Good follow up but reality is that it's a race and a bit of aggro is part and parcel of racing... if it carries on after the racing finishes then it becomes a problem that needs to be addressed.


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