# Cannondale System Six problems



## leo_NM

hey guys 

I Know that the system is one of the best frames ever made, but I heard that the way they joined the carbon with the alloy part of the frame, suffer one oxidative process. Is these a common situation ?? If the system was such a good frame, why cannondale don't produce it anymore ??

thanks


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## bikerclancy

Leo:

I have both a Six13 and a SystemSix. The problem is purely cosmetic and is only obvious on the nude carbon/aluminum frames, not the painted frames. I am a clydesdale (225+) and have had no frame problems with either bike.

As for not producing it any more, market wants carbon frames in the high price points!


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## ph0enix

leo_NM said:


> If the system was such a good frame, why cannondale don't produce it anymore ??


Because carbon fiber technology has improved and pro riders wanted all carbon bikes. Just my guess.


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## leo_NM

thanks guys


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## alanw2007

Some of the System Six frames do corrode at the join. Mine, for example, corroded badly enough that it caused the carbon to crack at the join near the BB, despite being ridden only in dry conditions and kept inside. Cannondale agreed to replace it under warranty so I shall soon have a nice Super Six Evo in its place.

As for why it's not made any more....amongst other things it was a *very* expensive frame to build. Only two welds short of a CAAD-9, but with all the carbon layup required for the front triangle too. It was well ahead of it's time in 2007 and is still a great performing bike.


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## leo_NM

Thanks. alanw2007

I'm starting one technical blog aboult cycling. Do you have some pics of this joint corrosion, I'd like to write aboult this frame.
thanks
Labirinto dos Equipamentos


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## leo_NM

Another question 

Full alloy frames like the CAADs has corrosion problems history ??

thanks


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## clydeosaur

I've got an '09 System six 61cm. I've heard of some issues here & there. I'm sure anytime you use two dissimilar materials, the weak spot will always be where they join. That being said, mine had been a solid bike since new.


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## metoou2

alanw2007 said:


> Cannondale agreed to replace it under warranty so I shall soon have a nice Super Six Evo in its place.


Please elaborate on your wrrnty situation. I have a System and would like to be prepared for any future eventualities.
So.........your warrantied System was a 'swap' for the EVO?
Or your warrantied System will be replaced after you spend some cash in association with the Frame Up-grade Program that Cannondale offers?
Any info is greatly appreciated.


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## alanw2007

leo_NM said:


> ...Do you have some pics of this joint corrosion


Some pictures of my System Six corrosion-related failure. I should point out that I rode this bike over 22000 km from new, and Cannondale warrantied it without hesitation, so the frame and the company still get a big :thumbsup: from me.



leo_NM said:


> Another question
> 
> Full alloy frames like the CAADs has corrosion problems history ??
> 
> thanks


This failure mode does not affect full aluminium frames. Differences between aluminium and carbon fibre on the electrochemical scale will cause aluminium to corrode if it is in direct contact with carbon fibre. Research carbon fibre / aluminium galvanic corrosion - there's plenty of info out there particularly from aerospace engineering. 



metoou2 said:


> Please elaborate on your wrrnty situation. I have a System and would like to be prepared for any future eventualities.
> So.........your warrantied System was a 'swap' for the EVO?
> Or your warrantied System will be replaced after you spend some cash in association with the Frame Up-grade Program that Cannondale offers?
> Any info is greatly appreciated.


I'm dealing with Cannondale Japan. Your situation may be different. Their inital offer was a SuperSix (non-evo) but these are rare in my size in Japan, and they forecast several months before one would be available. They then offered a CAAD 10 and I requested an upgrade to the Evo. I did have to add some cash but not a huge amount. There is no frame upgrade programme here as far as I know.

Corrosion - Drive Side









Crack - Drive Side









Corrosion and crack developing - Non-Drive Side









Corrosion - Top tube join


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## metoou2

Good job on the pics.


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## leo_NM

thank you very much !!


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## Zachariah

Find a painted one...much better. The only issue with the painted ones are that the only Hi-Modulus versions were the pre-2008 frames, or special Velo Club editions. I've been watching my 2007 Helen's Cycles/LaGrange Velo frame like a Hawk and it's still pristine, even after 4500 road miles:


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## alanw2007

Zachariah said:


> Find a painted one...much better.


Good point. Paint is much better at keeping moisture away from the joint so the galvanic corrosion will be prevented much more effectively.

That's a great looking bike you have


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## Yamabushi

alanw2007 said:


> Good point. Paint is much better at keeping moisture away from the joint so the galvanic corrosion will be prevented much more effectively.
> 
> That's a great looking bike you have


However if you had had a painted System Six, you probably wouldn't now have your EVO! BTW, I'm looking forward to seeing it this evening!


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## metoou2

Paint does not 'prevent' the galvanic corrosion. It merely 'hides' it.
Galvanic corrosion is caused from the mating of (2) materials that have dissimilar conductive properties. Manufacturing companies have known about it for decades and have ways to minimize the effect. It is a big issue in ship building. 
Somehow Cannondale didn't create a design to deal with this issue when they made the System Six.


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## zamboni

metoou2 said:


> Paint does not 'prevent' the galvanic corrosion. It merely 'hides' it.
> Galvanic corrosion is caused from the mating of (2) materials that have dissimilar conductive properties. Manufacturing companies have known about it for decades and have ways to minimize the effect. It is a big issue in ship building.
> Somehow Cannondale didn't create a design to deal with this issue when they made the System Six.


With the paint it's really difficult to tell if the metal had galvinic corrosion, should I be checking mine?


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## Yamabushi

metoou2 said:


> Paint does not 'prevent' the galvanic corrosion. It merely 'hides' it.
> Galvanic corrosion is caused from the mating of (2) materials that have dissimilar conductive properties. Manufacturing companies have known about it for decades and have ways to minimize the effect. It is a big issue in ship building.
> Somehow Cannondale didn't create a design to deal with this issue when they made the System Six.


If the surfaces were painted and assembled such that only paint touched paint, wouldn't that be a way of dealing with the galvanic corrosion?


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## metoou2

zamboni said:


> With the paint it's really difficult to tell if the metal had galvinic corrosion, should I be checking mine?


Look for surface irregularities (bubbles / lines / flakes) in the paint.
Don't get too worried about it. With the exception of member alanw2007, I have never seen extreme cases of corrosion. Most all cases simply have the small spider looking veins that don't amount to much.
If it was a pandemic and bikes were failing, or if there was a threat of failing, the CPSC would be involved and forcing a recall. The CPSC does a really good job. I'm sure you have followed some of the bike related recalls. They don't mess around and will force a recall for even the 'threat' of a failure. They don't wait until bikes are exploding from under us. 
Of course it never hurts to inspect your bike. And that comment applies to ALL of us and all of the different bikes we ride.
If your System reaches a condition of failure like alanw2007 it will be making quite a racket as you ride before it ever fails.


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## metoou2

Yamabushi said:


> If the surfaces were painted and assembled such that only paint touched paint, wouldn't that be a way of dealing with the galvanic corrosion?


Exactly............coating is the way the problem is solved. Electrically separating the (2) dissimilar materials.
Coating with a petroleum based lube is the most common way to solve it. But of course lube wouldn't be the solution for the System Six design.


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## Icycalm03

I have had exactly the same problems with my System Six and I am currently in negotitaion with CSG - Cannondale to get it sorted out. My bike frame is in perfect condition after having been kept in a warm garage for most of its life. Its probably only been ridden 20 times in 5 years. I get the same spidering caused by the galvanic corrosion. Don't let them fob you off with cosmetic/paint argument this is faulty manufacturing in the joining process.


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## Zachariah

I just rode a new SuperSix EVO, and although it felt very light, smooth and compliant....the System6 still feels the "business"...after all these years!


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## zamboni

Zachariah said:


> I just rode a new SuperSix EVO, and although it felt very light, smooth and compliant....the System6 still feels the "business"...after all these years!


Zac, 

Totally agreed with you on this took mine out yesterday for a ride andf the system felt more stable & solid on flat & descent compare with my super six. Glad still had this bike as a back up caad 9 rear stay is so smooth.


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## abhisheknath

Hey guys, I just bought a used cannondale system six frame as well and I can't tell if I have corrosion or not. In my case I see some bubbles near the water bottle bosses (this is in the carbon portion and not in the carbon aluminium junction so I doubt it's corrosion?).


Is that something to be worried about do you think?


Thanks!


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## clydeosaur

That simply looks like clear coat de-lamination. That's cosmetic. I've seen it on vehicles near fasteners. If it peels, hit it with some touch up clear coat, maybe a little 1000 grit and some polish. Wallah!


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## abhisheknath

Phew that puts my mind at ease. Thanks for the reply clydeosaur!


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## Zachariah

abhisheknath said:


> Hey guys, I just bought a used cannondale system six frame as well and I can't tell if I have corrosion or not. In my case I see some bubbles near the water bottle bosses (this is in the carbon portion and not in the carbon aluminium junction so I doubt it's corrosion?).
> 
> 
> Is that something to be worried about do you think?
> 
> 
> Thanks!


No need to sweat that clear coat separation. The Sun's UV rays even does this to the finest European cars. Just RIDE IT!


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## cbrbazza

*cannondale system six*



leo_NM said:


> Thanks. alanw2007
> 
> I'm starting one technical blog aboult cycling. Do you have some pics of this joint corrosion, I'd like to write aboult this frame.
> thanks
> Labirinto dos Equipamentos


 heres mine i pick the corrosion off and a bit of the clear coat painted it with clear nail varnish and it never came back this bike is fast as [email protected]£k


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## zamboni

cbrbazza said:


> heres mine


Sorry don't have any photo mine was painted version and never had any problem with corrosion.


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## cbrbazza

*system six*



cbrbazza said:


> heres mine


i picked the corrosion off and painted it with clear nail varnish it never came back ??


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