# Ultregra 6800 or 105?



## swcreates (Oct 15, 2013)

Yep, another which is better post. I've been riding MTB for a while and am working on building my first road bike. I was able to pick up a Giant TRC frame form next to nothing and will be building it up for use on a home trainer, a few centuries and maybe a race or two...

If money where no object, I'd get the 6800 hands down...but it is. I'm sure 105 is a solid group, but will I be disappointed in a few months that I didn't get the 6800 set? 

Perhaps, I've already answered my question, but I'd love some feedback on what you guys are running and what your thoughts are...


----------



## tihsepa (Nov 27, 2008)

If you think you want it now, wait until you bought something else. 

Its cheaper to buy parts only once.


----------



## Mr645 (Jun 14, 2013)

The Ultegra parts will be lighter but functionality between Ultegra and 105 is no different. You can mix parts also, so perhaps if the cost difference is minimal between the 105 & Ultegra part, go Ultegra, like on the cassette, but the shifters will be more costly due to carbon fiber levers, to go 105 for that. 

It's just a weight thing


----------



## tihsepa (Nov 27, 2008)

Mr645 said:


> The Ultegra parts will be lighter but functionality between Ultegra and 105 is no different. You can mix parts also, so perhaps if the cost difference is minimal between the 105 & Ultegra part, go Ultegra, like on the cassette, but the shifters will be more costly due to carbon fiber levers, to go 105 for that.
> 
> It's just a weight thing


Uh, yah. 6800 Ultegra is 11 speed. Not interchangeable with 105 which is still 10 speed.


----------



## Team Sarcasm (Oct 22, 2012)

tihsepa said:


> If you think you want it now, wait until you bought something else.
> 
> Its cheaper to buy parts only once.


This is very true. 105 is not bad at all, and personally I find its the best middle ground between cost and functionality if you're on a budget.


----------



## mpre53 (Oct 25, 2011)

Unless you really think you need 11 speed to compete in whatever races you're considering, you can mix and match 105 and 6700 to your heart's content, and a lot of online retailers have reduced 6700 components. I just picked up an 11-23 cassette for under $50. 11-23 works better for me than 12-25 on a 50/34 crank.


----------



## Mr645 (Jun 14, 2013)

tihsepa said:


> Uh, yah. 6800 Ultegra is 11 speed. Not interchangeable with 105 which is still 10 speed.



My mistake. I was thinking the 105 vs. Ultegra both in 10 speed versions


----------



## Guest (Oct 21, 2013)

I like 105 myself. It is a good fit between my interests and budget.


----------



## Mr_Clean (Feb 12, 2012)

200-300g weight difference isn't going to stop you from enjoying your bike. 105 is a very reliable groupset IMO. Save the extra pennies and invest on a good wheelset.


----------



## Fireform (Dec 15, 2005)

If anyone tells you they can tell the difference I shifting between ultegra and 105, you can be sure they're talking out their butts. 105 is a great value.


----------



## lbkwak (Feb 22, 2012)

Fireform said:


> If anyone tells you they can tell the difference I shifting between ultegra and 105, you can be sure they're talking out their butts. 105 is a great value.


I guess you haven't tried the new 6800. The performace difference between 6800 vs 5700 is huge.


----------



## pmf (Feb 23, 2004)

If 105 was 11-speed, I'd say get the 105, but its not. If you can wait a year until 105 gets upgraded do it, otherwise just buy the Ultegra. Bike components last a long time, you might as well start out with the upgraded group. In the big scheme of things, its not that much extra money.


----------



## Fireform (Dec 15, 2005)

lbkwak said:


> I guess you haven't tried the new 6800. The performace difference between 6800 vs 5700 is huge.


😄😄😄😄😄😄😄😄😄😄😄😄


----------



## Kenrow (Dec 21, 2010)

You can get a full 105 group set from Merlins for just over $500, tough to beat...

Shimano 105 5700 Groupset - Black | Merlin Cycles


----------



## Guest (Oct 21, 2013)

lbkwak said:


> I guess you haven't tried the new 6800. The performace difference between 6800 vs 5700 is huge.


And it is so satisfying to have that empty wallet.


----------



## lbkwak (Feb 22, 2012)

Fireform said:


> 😄😄😄😄😄😄😄😄😄😄😄😄


Very mature. Obviously you don't value other people's opinion.


----------



## lbkwak (Feb 22, 2012)

OP,

IMO, the new DA 9000 and 6800 Ultegra are far better than the previous DA 7900 and 6700. I even think 6800 Ultegra is better than DA 7900.

I hope you try them both before making the purchase.


----------



## Dunbar (Aug 8, 2010)

lbkwak said:


> IMO, the new DA 9000 and 6800 Ultegra are far better than the previous DA 7900 and 6700. I even think 6800 Ultegra is better than DA 7900.


This, as a 5700 105 owner, if we were talking about Ultegra 6700 vs 105 I'd say go 105. But the new 6800 is supposed to be much nicer than the outgoing 6700 Ultegra . I'd go test ride bikes with both groups before making a decision. The difference is only about $250 and it's cheaper to spend the money now than upgrade in the future.


----------



## rcb78 (Jun 15, 2008)

I recently upgraded my CX bike from 5700 to 6800. Having 9000 on my road bike, my primary reason for the swap was parts compatibility between the two bikes.
That said, the 6800 is noticeably smoother than the 5700 that came off. Not quite as light action as the 9000, but damn close. This is a big deal for me when it's cold and wet this time of year. My hands get cold and lose feeling easily, so a lighter action is easier for me to regulate, ymmv.


----------



## demonrider (Jul 18, 2012)

swcreates said:


> for use on a home trainer, a few centuries and maybe a race or two...


For that kind of usage, definitely 105. No brainer. I see no reason why you would be "disappointed in a few months" with the 105 group.


----------



## masont (Feb 6, 2010)

The ultegra 6800 is miles better.

I couldn't tell the difference blindfolded between 6700 and 5700, but 6800 is a no brainer. Anyone telling you otherwise hasn't ridden it, thinks it's still 10 speed, or for some odd reason thinks it's crazy to buy anything other than the cheapest possible equipment that will get the job done.

Make no mistake, if you try the 6800, you'll regret buying 5700.


----------



## froze (Sep 15, 2002)

I test rode both the Ultegra and the 105 and they are not miles better, in fact I could barely tell a difference. The only difference I detected, which was very slight, was the rear derailleur on the Ultegra was a tiny bit better...was that due to it being Ultegra vs 105? or was the Ultegra adjusted better? I don't know. But supposedly the Ultegra rear derailleur uses better bearing material. Front derailleur no difference. Brake wise no difference. Shift lever action just a slightly smoother feel with the Ultegra.

So is the Ultegra worth saving 275 grms and worth spending $500 to get? No, unless you plan on racing even then I wouldn't. I know guys and known guys who raced only 105 because they were self financed racers and couldn't afford to put out for Ultegra and 105 can take abuse better. 

When I bought my new bike it was originally spec'd with 105, I changed the rear derailleur to Ultegra because it only cost me $32 more, the rest I left 105. I would suggest, as an opinion of course, is to get the 105 group and replace the rear derailleur with Ultegra.

Also replacement parts are cheaper for 105.


----------



## Dunbar (Aug 8, 2010)

^Perfect example of someone who thinks the current Ultegra is still 10sp 6700.


----------



## froze (Sep 15, 2002)

Dunbar said:


> ^Perfect example of someone who thinks the current Ultegra is still 10sp 6700.


I never said the current was a 10 speed, in fact never even brought it up so you assumed I was discussing a 10 speed Ultegra. I said I test rode both and found that the extra gear in the 11 speed gains you very little, in other words not miles ahead, that's what I was talking about, then I pointed out the tactile feel of each. I ended up with a 10 speed system because 11 speeds did nothing for me. Another person who can't read.


----------



## teslaosiris (Oct 15, 2013)

The only reason why I have some 6700 on my bike is because with the release of 6800, the price drops on 6700 components are huge. I got a par of 6700 shifters for the same price that 105 shifters were going for on ebay. I actually got an Ultegra FD for cheaper than a 105 FD (new in box too I might add). 

Bargain shop... You can get some amazing deals if you just be patient. The only thing I recommend going 105 over Ultegra on is the crankset and chain... The 105 is stiffer and the chain will be more durable.


----------



## demonrider (Jul 18, 2012)

masont said:


> The ultegra 6800 is miles better.
> 
> I couldn't tell the difference blindfolded between 6700 and 5700, but 6800 is a no brainer. Anyone telling you otherwise hasn't ridden it, thinks it's still 10 speed, or for some odd reason thinks it's crazy to buy anything other than the cheapest possible equipment that will get the job done.
> 
> Make no mistake, if you try the 6800, you'll regret buying 5700.


How many miles, exactly... 

If I wanted to suggest "cheapest possible equipment", I would have suggested Sora, 105 (and even Tiagra) is overkill for the few races and some centuries the OP wishes to engage in. But of the two choices presented, if I was the OP, I would save money, go with 105 and ride happy. Heck there are some amazing deals on 2012/2013 wheelsets right now and the difference in price can easily get a very respectable wheelset.

Only reason I would go with 6800 over 105 *for the usage the OP indicated* is if I wanted to keep the bike/groupset for a long time and for some reason needed 11-spd over 10 for future compatibility. But even having said that, I don't see 10-spd going anywhere.


----------



## froze (Sep 15, 2002)

teslaosiris said:


> The only reason why I have some 6700 on my bike is because with the release of 6800, the price drops on 6700 components are huge. I got a par of 6700 shifters for the same price that 105 shifters were going for on ebay. I actually got an Ultegra FD for cheaper than a 105 FD (new in box too I might add).
> 
> Bargain shop... You can get some amazing deals if you just be patient. The only thing I recommend going 105 over Ultegra on is the crankset and chain... The 105 is stiffer and the chain will be more durable.


This is true with anything, you must always keep your eyes open for deals and never rush out and buy a new model of something when it first hits the showrooms because you will pay dearly. I remember in the mid 90's people rushing to get Plasma TV's and spent $8,000 to $13,000 for one...I got mine on sale for $475 two years ago. Remember when LED bike lights first came out? $800 range for a light that isn't as bright as the ones you can get today for $75! So sure, if you want to save a ton of money on components get the 6700. 

Not sure if this will work with newer Ultegra but the 6700 levers are stiff and chunky feeling compared to the older 6600 that were much smoother from what I remembered. But finding a complete group set might require a E-Bay search, and you'll be missing that MILES AHEAD extra gear...


----------



## Trek_5200 (Apr 21, 2013)

swcreates said:


> Yep, another which is better post. I've been riding MTB for a while and am working on building my first road bike. I was able to pick up a Giant TRC frame form next to nothing and will be building it up for use on a home trainer, a few centuries and maybe a race or two...
> 
> If money where no object, I'd get the 6800 hands down...but it is. I'm sure 105 is a solid group, but will I be disappointed in a few months that I didn't get the 6800 set?
> 
> Perhaps, I've already answered my question, but I'd love some feedback on what you guys are running and what your thoughts are...



If you had asked utegra vs dur ace i would easily answer ultegra based on durability and price knowing full well the weight penalty here is not a real factor for over 95% of us. But if you are talking ultegra vs 105 assuming you are not pressed for money, I'd say go Utegra. It's a better component set. If you did want to save a little I'd suggest attempting to pick up a 6700 set as the difference between 10 and 11 gears is not something most of us should are about. 10 is plenty. Even 9 is more than enough gears. 

By the way, I ride Ultegra and outside some minor issues regarding trimming which is probably an adjustment I find the product excellent. I also rode an older version of Ultegra and that was pretty good too, although they seem to have improved the shifting to the higher chain ring on the 6700 vs the 6500.


----------



## masont (Feb 6, 2010)

froze said:


> I never said the current was a 10 speed, in fact never even brought it up so you assumed I was discussing a 10 speed Ultegra. I said I test rode both and found that the extra gear in the 11 speed gains you very little, in other words not miles ahead, that's what I was talking about, then I pointed out the tactile feel of each. I ended up with a 10 speed system because 11 speeds did nothing for me. Another person who can't read.


If you couldn't tell a difference betwee 5700 and 6800, you absolutely did the right thing buying 5700. Congratulations. I validate your decision.


----------



## softreset (Sep 10, 2013)

froze said:


> said I test rode both and found that the extra gear in the 11 speed gains you very little


Actually, you made no mention of the 11 speed (or extra gear) in your original remark on this thread - Ultregra 6800 or 105?

So before you ding someone on their inability to read, you need to at least have typed it for them to read it.


----------



## froze (Sep 15, 2002)

softreset said:


> Actually, you made no mention of the 11 speed (or extra gear) in your original remark on this thread - Ultregra 6800 or 105?
> 
> So before you ding someone on their inability to read, you need to at least have typed it for them to read it.


That's why I mentioned that I bought a new bike, new meaning 3 months ago not 3 years ago.


----------



## swcreates (Oct 15, 2013)

Thanks for all the feedback. Is the current model of ultrgra was still 10 speed I'd mix and match a bit. But I can't, unless I find some killer deals, which seem to be disappearing. I think 105 will serve me and in a few years think about an upgrade.


----------



## Dunbar (Aug 8, 2010)

froze said:


> That's why I mentioned that I bought a new bike, new meaning 3 months ago not 3 years ago.


Actually what you typed was "when I bought my new bike" which tells the reader nothing about how long ago that was. Ultegra 6800 is only available on 2014 model year bikes which have only started tricking into LBS's in the last couple months. I'm still not sure that *you* even remember whether you test rode 6700 or 6800 Ultegra. Outside of the cranksets there's no big visual difference between the group sets. So unless you counted the number of cogs on the cassette it would be easy to confuse the two.


----------



## softreset (Sep 10, 2013)

Dunbar said:


> Actually what you typed was "when I bought my new bike" which tells the reader nothing about how long ago that was.


Froze was so hell bent on correcting someone else and then shaming them that they forgot about basic argument composition.


----------



## al0 (Jan 24, 2003)

The only thing is that 105 brifters wear down much faster than Ultegra and, especially, DA.


----------



## softreset (Sep 10, 2013)

There's definitely deals to be had on 2012/2013 bikes with Ultegra 6700. The longer you wait, though, the more those deals will dry up for common bike sizes.

I think you'll be very happy with the 105 bike. If you take care of the drivetrain it can easily last you a lifetime with routine maintenance on wearable components. My Shimano RSX equipped Raleigh from '96 has over 20,000 miles and it still performs like a champ.


----------



## Z'mer (Oct 28, 2013)

swcreates said:


> . If the current model of ultegra was still 10 speed I'd mix and match a bit. But I can't, unless I find some killer deals, which seem to be disappearing.


One thing not mentioned, the 6800 series will need an 11 speed compatible rear hub on the wheel, so keep that in mind if you ever have thoughts of an upgrade. Some (not all) new wheels are 10/11 speed compatible. In 10 speed mode you use a spacer. 

The Shimano 4600 (Tiagra), 5700 (105), and 6700 (Ultegra) are completely interchangeable. I wouldn't worry about getting a complete set, start with the crank and shifters, the 2 most expensive items after wheels. EBay has deals on new parts from bike shops, but so do others like Jenson and Competitive Cyclist, (and then there is Amazon). I just went through this on 2 bike upgrades. Here's my conclusions. 
1) Shimano makes the best reasonably priced cranksets in terms of front shifting and gear wear. The best deal out there now (if you are leaning more to trainer use) is the Tiagra FC-4650. I got a new one for 75. shipped, and it has all alloy rings, C shape alloy arms, and is very decent quality for the price. Can be swapped out easily in about 5 minutes to another Shimano model for road use. The FC-5750 105 crank uses hollow arms, but the large chainring is not hollow with a backplate like the 6700. To replace an FSA Gossamer crank, I went with an FC-6800 crankset. It uses the same ring spacing as the FC-6700 series, and works fine with 10 speed chain. Looks cooler (to me) and is about the same price as the FC-6700 series.
So I'd lean to Ultegra, unless you really want to cheap out to start. If you ride 53/39 rings, Jenson has a screaming deal on FC-6600 ultegra cranks now for $120. Shimano Ultegra FC-6600 Crankset Oe > Components > Drivetrain > Cranksets | Jenson USA Online Bike Shop

2) Go with the Ultegra 6700 rear derailleur - it uses sealed bearings on one pulley, and ceramic bushings on the other. If you have a 105 5700, you can upgrade the pulleys to Ultegra ones for about 20 bucks - parts fit exactly. 
3) Shifters - I'd go at least 105 5700 series, I much prefer the hood shape and cable routing to Tiagra 4600 shifters. The Ultegra 6700 is very similar, if not exactly same from the outside for ergonomics. 

Bob


----------



## al0 (Jan 24, 2003)

Sure, you can mix and match, but I dare suggest to select slightly different components.

Sometimes there are very good deals on DuraAce 7800 components, on the price level of Ultegra 6700 or even 105. Check if you can find such shifters and a front derailer - they are quite superior to other groups, especially, in a long-term reliability.

Cranks and chain rings very well may be 105 - they are even slightly better than Ultegra (unless you are obsessed with weight).

Rear derailer and cassette - any, difference is neglible (besides weight).

Chain 10-sp Ultegra 6701.

Crank


----------



## easyridernyc (Jan 10, 2008)

105 is good. pound for pound new ten speed = no brainer.


----------



## Z'mer (Oct 28, 2013)

al0 said:


> Cranks and chain rings very well may be 105 - they are even slightly better than Ultegra (unless you are obsessed with weight).
> 
> Rear derailer and cassette - any, difference is neglible (besides weight).
> 
> ...


There is weight, then there is rotating weight. With cranks, there is also energy transfer and stiffness involved. In my shopping, I see 105 and Ultegra cranks priced about the same. There was a blowout with FC-6750s going for $148. at CS - over now. But I grabbed one. 

The 105 pulleys are both steel bushings - a bolt through a steel pipe if you may. The Ultegra pulleys use sealed ball bearings and 2 piece ceramic bushings. After 500 miles, guess which spins easier? 

For 10 speed chain, I would use a KMC link, but also like and use KMC chain. Unless you want the best, then go for the DA CN-7901. 

For rear cassette, since they wear out like chains, and there is little difference, I would say Tiagra is fine. Many new $2K+ carbon bikes go out the door with Tiagra cassettes and 105 shifters.


----------



## trbo823 (Oct 6, 2013)

Kenrow said:


> You can get a full 105 group set from Merlins for just over $500, tough to beat...
> 
> Shimano 105 5700 Groupset - Black | Merlin Cycles


Probikekit had ultegra 6800 for $748 and with 15% coupon, $638.


----------



## r1lee (Jul 22, 2012)

To say you can't feel the difference between 6700 and 105 is mostly right. Unfortunately for me, the crank on ultegra is stiff whereas when riding a 105 crank, I can definitely feel the flex.

No comparison between 6800 though.


----------



## terbennett (Apr 1, 2006)

OP isn't looking at 6800; He's looking at 6700. He clearly stated in a later post that he is not going with 11 speed; But he's looking at 10 speed Ultegra- which indicates he's likely looking at 6700. 105 will be 11 speed soon and Ultegra will lose it's value. there's nothing wrong with either group but to say that Ultegra is actually better than 105 is hogwash. In fact, 105 has proven itself for the past 30 years to be a strong contender and if you look at the various models, 105 has actually proven itself to be more reliable. Ultegra is for those who can't fork out the cash for Dura Ace. Those are usually the ones who make themselves feel better by downplaying 105 and convincing themselves that it's as good Dura Ace. If you look at the mechanicals to Ultegra deraileurs and shifters, the mechanicals are similar to 105. Dura Ace has a different design.


----------



## AndreSF (Sep 23, 2013)

Z'mer said:


> <snip>
> ...I went with an FC-6800 crankset. It uses the same ring spacing as the FC-6700 series, and works fine with 10 speed chain. Looks cooler (to me) and is about the same price as the FC-6700 series.
> So I'd lean to Ultegra, unless you really want to cheap out to start. If you ride 53/39 rings, Jenson has a screaming deal on FC-6600 ultegra cranks now for $120. Shimano Ultegra FC-6600 Crankset Oe > Components > Drivetrain > Cranksets | Jenson USA Online Bike Shop
> 
> 2) Go with the Ultegra 6700 rear derailleur


I was looking for someone who had done this very thing, as I am looking to do the same. Thanks!!!


----------



## al0 (Jan 24, 2003)

> With cranks, there is also energy transfer and stiffness involved.


Exactly, and 5700 (105) cranks are stiffer than 6600 (Ultegra). As for rotating weight - it may matter on wheels (and even there only under very special conditions, like crits), on cranks this difference is barely measurable.

Yes, Ultegra pulley may spin easier - but the difference is negligible anyway. And pulleys are replaceable parts anyhow, in a few years they may be replaced with Tacx ones (and total costs for 105 derailer and Tacx pulleys - either "normal" ball bearings or even stainless ball-bearings - would be same or even lower than Ultegra derailer)..

As for chain links - I prefer Wipperman Connex link over KMC, but this may be a matter of taste.


----------



## oberwil (Jun 18, 2005)

Both will work, but look at trying to get Ultegra in the hubs, and I think 105 still uses steel freehubs, quite a big weight difference there, otherwise get 105 and use the savings to get better wheels. Both 105 and Ultegra are similiar. The big difference is the DA levers which use ball bearings vs bushings in the lower 2 groups. DA levers will last you a life time or much longer vs the other 2. But then I don't care for Shimano, I've been on SRAM for many years now because like Campy the levers are serviceable.


----------



## davidka (Dec 12, 2001)

The new 6800 is much improved in my opinion, better brakes, 11 speed and nicer hood shape as well as smoother shifting, especially up front. That said, for a significantly lower price, it's hard to go wrong with 105/5700. Solid value there.

Dirty little secret: a lot of the shifting smoothness comes from Shimano's new coated cables and housing, which can be upgraded on any group.


----------



## Dunbar (Aug 8, 2010)

davidka said:


> Dirty little secret: a lot of the shifting smoothness comes from Shimano's new coated cables and housing, which can be upgraded on any group.


I heard the same thing and had my LBS install the Dura Ace 9000 cables/housings paired with my 5700 105 group set on my new frame (Roubaix SL4). My main gripe with 5700 (and 6700 I rode for 500 miles) is that no matter how well you tune it there's too much friction in the cables which causes at least one or two gears to skip or stutter. Even though I went from external to internal cable routing on my new frame the shifting is noticeably improved with the 9000 cables. Up front it just leaps up onto the big ring and there's no skipping or stuttering on the RD (which is all I really care about honestly.) I may try the 6800 cables/housings when I wear the 9000 stuff out due to cost. I do think it's important to replace cables every year or so to keep the shifting crisp.


----------



## dnice (Jul 12, 2012)

Fireform said:


> If anyone tells you they can tell the difference I shifting between ultegra and 105, you can be sure they're talking out their butts. 105 is a great value.


i can. 105 is nice and a great value, but the ultegra 6700 shifts much nicer. no comment on 6800, however i will try the aforementioned cable swap on the 105s and see how that affects things.


----------



## DrSmile (Jul 22, 2006)

The PBK deal makes 6800 a no brainer. I'm sure they or Ribble or Wiggle will have a similar deal again soon (black Friday?). Of course the better move is to go with Campy!


----------



## Dunbar (Aug 8, 2010)

DrSmile said:


> The PBK deal makes 6800 a no brainer.


I've heard there's no warranty in the US if you buy it from Europe. I don't know if Shimano makes you produce a receipt for warranty replacements but it's something to consider.


----------

