# Let's Talk Base Miles



## locustfist (Feb 21, 2009)

It's that time of year, I'm trying to lay down the LSD (Long Steady Distance) by sneaking in saddle time every chance I get.

What's your game plan? 

How do you keep it interesting without races coming up? 

How do you keep your group ride from turning into the Saturday morning championship?

Do you like to explore new routes?

Keep it flat or head for the hills?

Do you jump on your MTB/CX/Townie/etc bike?

...chime in on the base miles free for all


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## wesb321 (Oct 1, 2011)

Well I made an attempt at it today. 102 miles, I forgot to press start on the Garmin so it just reads the 97. I tried to keep my HR under control as much as I could/ I also tried to ignore speed and just pedal. Terrain didn't factor into my thinking or plan, just kinda took it as it came but there wasn't any big climbs on the ride anyway. There were a few times I pedaled faster and harder than I should have trying to shake the cooler temps of my core. I'm sure I did some things wrong but overall am OK with the adventure. It was a long day out there haha!


Bike Ride Profile | 98miles near Fayetteville | Times and Records | Strava


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## spade2you (May 12, 2009)

Game plan was to do 4 months of base. Lost a lot this summer due to a newborn and a new computer system at work. 

I currently watch old TdF DVDs, which automatically makes me a doper if I were 1 forum above. I listen to music while watching these on the rollers. Might switch to movies for a bit since these are getting boring. Might need to invest in some more DVDs. 

I had good results when I was good with my base, which is about all the motivation I need. If I need more, I think of all the races where I did poorly and try to do exactly what I'm supposed to do in order to avoid that. 

Routes....(sigh). For the time being, I'm relegated to the rollers with a newborn at home. My route adds about an hour in travel. I shouldn't complain too much since I'm still getting to ride.


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## MTBer4life (Dec 9, 2008)

for me I have three weeks off law school in December so I plan to go 11-13-15 hours with a goal of hitting at least 500 miles (read that arbitrary number somewhere as a solid base and it seemed like something to shoot for). This will probably consist of a long 3-4 hour mtb ride and long 5-6 hour road ride with the rest being short sub 2 hour trainer sessions. I enjoy the mtb rides most but its harder to keep the HR under control. The road ride, i just pick somewhere interesting on the map and plan a route to get there.

After that Ill keep the base training up for a couple weeks but the hours will be cut down to 8-10 when school starts back. 

Ill be avoiding most group rides until im ready to put some intensity in.


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## Wookiebiker (Sep 5, 2005)

locustfist said:


> What's your game plan?


30 minutes on the trainer each weekday morning before work
2 hours on the trainer Tuesday, Wednesday and Thursday (a mix of endurance and tempo work)
7 - 8 hours of riding outside (group ride on Saturday) on the weekends

I was able to get in right at 16 hours this week ... 133.4 miles and 7 hours 51 minutes this weekend. on the road, 8 hours on the trainer and 40 minutes of "neighborhood" riding while working on my bikes.



> How do you keep it interesting without races coming up?


I keep my goals for next season on my mind ... I also know I need the miles to keep the weight off or I'll balloon up to 220 - 230 pounds by January. I'm doing well with the weight as I'm 10 pounds under where I was last year and actually dropping, though slowly, right now.



> How do you keep your group ride from turning into the Saturday morning championship?


For the most part it's not a problem. I always push it on the hills during group rides since it's not a bad thing to get in a little threshold work during LSD miles. 

During the flatter parts of the ride, I get up front and pull the entire time at upper endurance to low tempo pace, which is fast enough for nobody else to want to pull through (at least for very long). I'll do this for 2.5 hours or so on the group rides.



> Do you like to explore new routes?


Not really .,. I know the area pretty well and ride the same routes, just mix up parts of them each weekend. During the week it's all trainer time, so no way around the boredom there.



> Keep it flat or head for the hills?


Both ... On group rides I generally get in 2.5K - 3K feet of climbing, on my Sunday solo rides I'll get in 3K - 4K of climbing. The rest is on the flats.



> Do you jump on your MTB/CX/Townie/etc bike?


Strictly on the road ... though if I had the opportunity, I'd mix it up, but what options I do have are limited and would get boring quickly and really muddy ... and I don't like mud 

Starting in December I'll start to mix in more Threshold time on the trainer and hit the hills harder on both group and individual rides. Starting in February I'll throw in a bit more VO2 max work as well since race season starts mid February here.


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## DMH2979 (May 24, 2011)

I think the research has shown (sorry I don't have a link, just remember reading it - wow, now I sound like a politician  that the old school idea of noodling around easy for 4-5 hrs during the fall/winter does not really do much for you - esp for people with jobs/family. I think a good balance of endurance riding, and LT is desirable. I think Wookie's schedule looks pretty similar to mine. I wouldn't be afraid of a little intensity = anything you can hold for 10 minutes or longer. 

Most of the winter I do 2-3x15-20 minute intervals and with tempo/endurance on the weekends with some intensity if it's a group ride. 

I even had plans this fall to work on my weakness - 10 sec-1 min power. That would require maintaining a lot of the summer/race fitness. Turns out I didn't have the motivation to go that hard, so I just rode how I felt for Sept and Oct and now moving into more structured stuff. It's not the riding I get tired of (even after 15 yrs of racing), it's the structure.


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## Guod (Jun 9, 2011)

I dunno if I'm doing the wrong thing this year, but I've worked in a couple days of weight training into my winter plan. I'm focusing on core excersizes and leg strength to help with bursts of power. Last year when I went from the wieght room to focusing more on riding I was about 20lbs heavier.... Trying to avoid that this year by limiting the focus. (this means no sitting in front of the mirror doing preacher curls...)

Mondays- Weight training with a mile or two of jogging for warm up/cool down
Tuesdays- 2hr group ride with using climbs as intervals
Wednesdays- Weight training, same format
Thursdays- 2hr group ride with intervals (hills again usually)
Fridays- off
Saturdays- 3-5hr group ride
Sundays- 3-4hrs solo or group ride, mostly easy

Hopefully this will keep me improving over the off season. It's pretty hard to work in enough time and miles while working 50hr weeks, but I made alot of progress last winter and feel like I'll make more gains this time around.


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## Schneiderguy (Jan 9, 2005)

anyone doing any fixed gear?


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## Poncharelli (May 7, 2006)

What's your game plan? 
I may be starting base late for next season (Feb or March) for a fall cyclocross peak. But when I do start it will be 1-2 hours weekdays, 3-4 hours weekend days. For now, 2X a week crossfit, daily bike commuting to save gas money (1-1.5 hours), and weekend cross racing with added volume (I hit the roads after going though the finish line). In all cases, my default pace is ALWAYS zone 2; I only change that if I have something special planned (intervals, group ride, or race), which still depends on development phase. 

How do you keep your group ride from turning into the Saturday morning championship?Ride with a like minded group. We have a base group going all winter and we'll do 3-4 hours on Saturdays. There's a 10-minute climb during the ride that we all hit pretty hard, just to compare ourselves. At the end though, the ride usually averages lower Tempo wattage with some huge KJs, so it's a pretty draining ride. 

Keep it flat or head for the hills?
I do a bit of both. Just keep the pace proper. 

Do you jump on your MTB/CX/Townie/etc bike?
I just bought a CX bike, so I'll probably being using it a lot for when roads are crappy.


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## Cableguy (Jun 6, 2010)

I'm not really down for doing true base miles, I don't have enough patience and dedication. It might be a nice mental break to replace intesity miles with base, but unless time on the bike is greatly increased to compensate you'll probably just end up losing fitness overall. I have a hard enough time overloading myself with 12 hours per week of non-base... with base miles I would need to be on the bike even more.


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## spade2you (May 12, 2009)

Cableguy said:


> I'm not really down for doing true base miles, I don't have enough patience and dedication. It might be a nice mental break to replace intesity miles with base, but unless time on the bike is greatly increased to compensate you'll probably just end up losing fitness overall. I have a hard enough time overloading myself with 12 hours per week of non-base... with base miles I would need to be on the bike even more.


12 hours a week of non-base? What kind of riding/racing are you doing?


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## Cableguy (Jun 6, 2010)

spade2you said:


> 12 hours a week of non-base? What kind of riding/racing are you doing?


On the weekdays I'll either be on the trainer doing intervals or out doing a training crit. The closest I come to base efforts would be on the weekends during fast-ish group rides. Between hills/hammer segments there's usually a lull in the pace which can generally fall in the base effort range and last for 30 min or so.


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## spade2you (May 12, 2009)

Cableguy said:


> On the weekdays I'll either be on the trainer doing intervals or out doing a training crit. The closest I come to base efforts would be on the weekends during fast-ish group rides. Between hills/hammer segments there's usually a lull in the pace which can generally fall in the base effort range and last for 30 min or so.


So, 12 hours of intervals per week and no base?


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## Wookiebiker (Sep 5, 2005)

spade2you said:


> So, 12 hours of intervals per week and no base?


Sounds like a quick way to not get better and overtrain ... but then what do I know?


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## Cableguy (Jun 6, 2010)

spade2you said:


> So, 12 hours of intervals per week and no base?


Depends how technical you want to get with the breakdown, but basically yes. I'd estimate of the total time generally 50% anaerobic, 25% tempo, 25% easier pace (recovering from effort, going slower to keep group organized, riding behind hot chick, etc).


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## Cableguy (Jun 6, 2010)

Wookiebiker said:


> Sounds like a quick way to not get better and overtrain ... but then what do I know?


I agree there's probably a better way to train with the time I'm committing (work in progress!), but I think the whole "overtrain" concern is raised too quickly. The reverse is probably a lot more true - thinking you've trained "too much" when in fact you're not really overloading yourself enough to force the desired adaptations.


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## nOOky (Mar 20, 2009)

I don't do base miles in the winter. I ride when I can as far as I can, weather permitting here in Wisconsin. I run, snowshoe, xc ski, hike, whatever I can do to maintain fitness and not get fat. I'm not a pro, just a guy that recently has liked endurance mountain bike races a lot more than road crits, because that's what us old fellows do. I only lose fitness in the winter because the lack of daylight and the cold sometimes zaps the motivation right out of me.
Riding on the trainer sux, I can only do it once a week or so before I just say enough.
I'll ride after work tonight and it'll be in the upper 30's, and it doesn't seem like much fun right about now


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## spade2you (May 12, 2009)

Cableguy said:


> Depends how technical you want to get with the breakdown, but basically yes. I'd estimate of the total time generally 50% anaerobic, 25% tempo, 25% easier pace (recovering from effort, going slower to keep group organized, riding behind hot chick, etc).


So, you're telling us that you're basically doing 6 hours a week of anaerobic?



Cableguy said:


> I agree there's probably a better way to train with the time I'm committing (work in progress!), but I think the whole "overtrain" concern is raised too quickly. The reverse is probably a lot more true - thinking you've trained "too much" when in fact you're not really overloading yourself enough to force the desired adaptations.


Overtaining isn't so much how you're feeling now, but how the shape you're in when it counts. 

I did nothing but intervals my first year of racing. Progressed really fast. I then hit a wall and eventually fell apart. I wasn't strong when it counted and fairly flat on the days that it did. I don't recommend training like this.


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## Cableguy (Jun 6, 2010)

spade2you said:


> I did nothing but intervals my first year of racing. Progressed really fast. I then hit a wall and eventually fell apart. I wasn't strong when it counted and fairly flat on the days that it did. I don't recommend training like this.


When you say fell apart what do you mean? Physical, mental, or both? You're doing base miles for the next 4 months, does that include *any* high intensity/interval work?


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## Wookiebiker (Sep 5, 2005)

Cableguy said:


> When you say fell apart what do you mean? Physical, mental, or both? You're doing base miles for the next 4 months, does that include *any* high intensity/interval work?


Generally ... you fall apart both physically and mentally. 

From a physical perspective you end up not being able to hold a training load, your legs are dead all the time and your power starts to drop off. 

From a mental perspective you start to lose the desire to ride, you are mentally tired making it hard to get out of bed, concentrate, lose focus, etc.

When it comes to base miles, most of it is at an endurance pace ... but it's not interval free as you might think. Generaly you stay away from the VO2 max and super high intensity work, but throw in a fair amount of tempo work and a smaller amount of threshold work. It's still good to get in a 20 minute threshold effort once or twice a week during base building ... or a 1 - 1.5 hour tempo session.

Base building is about building the bodies ability to adapt once you need to, giving it a base for which to really hit the intervals hard ... not just about riding along at a slow pace.

The biggest mistake almost all amateur riders make is training too hard and not allowing the body to recover. Even when they think they are doing a recovery ride ... they are riding too hard. 

A power meter is great for monitoring effort in different stages and general training, but people still use them improperly when training.


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## spade2you (May 12, 2009)

Cableguy said:


> When you say fell apart what do you mean? Physical, mental, or both? You're doing base miles for the next 4 months, does that include *any* high intensity/interval work?


Just physically. Stopped showing any sort of gains half way through the racing season. Also seemed to get nagging colds during the winter. 

I occasionally will do some high intensity. It'll sometimes do 30 minute TT and 15 minute TT efforts, but nothing above that pace. I typically only do this when I'm short on time and I know I'll have a day or two for rest.


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## jsedlak (Jun 17, 2008)

It's a little early for me, I'm on a mini-build period actually.

But when it comes to base mileage, I just explore and look for new and interesting roads. If I'm in the group then I'm sitting at the back and just enjoying the draft.

Once you realize that pushing too hard during this time hurts your next season, it's easy to sit in. I've got big goals and I want to make sure I'm in the best possible position to achieve them. It's that simple.


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## spade2you (May 12, 2009)

jsedlak said:


> Once you realize that pushing too hard during this time hurts your next season, it's easy to sit in.


..especially when you've experienced it first hand and learned it the hard way. Really wish I had a better training plan sooner as well as a power meter. Several seasons of unknown power and wondering what kind of shape I really was in. I made due with consistent tire pressure and gearing+cadence.


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## Local Hero (Jul 8, 2010)

I've been riding 20+ hours every week. 

I do a daily 2-3 hour ride spinning up hills. Sometimes shorter, sometimes centuries. I'm trying to have fun with it: A few weeks ago a friend and I rode down the coast of California, covering over 270 miles in three days. That said, I've tried to avoid riding for more than 80 miles, as it's not specific to my racing. Plus being in the saddle for 5+ hours raises cortisols/ lowers testosterone. 

There's a fast Saturday morning ride in my area. It's close to 40 miles punctuated by a 10-12 minute hill that separates the men from the boys. It's a sufferfest and the "winner" gets some level of bragging rights. I've swallowed my pride and decided that I don't need to win the SMR during the winter. Last weekend I slept in an went hill hunting with a few guys instead. I know I could get out there and try to put the hurt on people but what's the point right now? I'll pick it back up at the end of December. 

I've accepted that that now is not the time to go fast. The lightweight clinchers and the carbon tubulars are hanging on my wall. I'm rolling around on 2000gram wheelset with 28mm hard case commuter tires. 

That said, it is not all slow. During this base period I still like to sprint at least once a week. Usually it's on the long Sunday endurance ride. A few other guys and I go for the signpost or practice the leadout train for 800meters. It's not a real VO2 max effort, just a hard anaerobic sprint to keep the fast twitch muscles in the game. 

I've also been in the gym (squats, lunges, box jumps, pushups, etc) doing 8 minute abs, and I plan on getting back into yoga.


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## Local Hero (Jul 8, 2010)

double


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## spade2you (May 12, 2009)

Man, I wish I could ride 20+ hours a week. I'd probably be less of a jerk. Well, maybe not. Between the job, wife, and kids that's not happening soon. To think, I used to complain a lot about being single.


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## Local Hero (Jul 8, 2010)

spade2you said:


> Man, I wish I could ride 20+ hours a week. I'd probably be less of a jerk. Well, maybe not. Between the job, wife, and kids that's not happening soon. To think, I used to complain a lot about being single.


I'm single and I make a living being a jerk


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## spade2you (May 12, 2009)

Local Hero said:


> I'm single and I make a living being a jerk


I wish I could be paid for being a jerk, although I'm only an amateur jerk. 

During my long single streak, I almost contemplated dropping to 32 hours a week since my cost of living was hardly anything. All the riding I could have done, along with brewing lots of beer and more guitar than you can shake a stick at.


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## jmitro (Jun 29, 2011)

DMH2979 said:


> ..... the old school idea of noodling around easy for 4-5 hrs during the fall/winter does not really do much for you - esp for people with jobs/family.





Cableguy said:


> I agree there's probably a better way to train with the time I'm committing (work in progress!), but I think the whole "overtrain" concern is raised too quickly. The reverse is probably a lot more true - thinking you've trained "too much" when in fact you're not really overloading yourself enough to force the desired adaptations.


As a collegiate distance runner training year round with "base" noncompetitive miles from November to February, I was burnt out after 4 years. IMHO the base miles are important to allow rest both physically and psychologically. I intend to be riding for the next 20 years, but no way I'll keep up the intensity level you guys are talking about. If you guys can keep that up long term, my hat's off to you.



Local Hero said:


> I've been riding 20+ hours every week.


see above. That's quite a bit of riding!! I simply don't have enough time in my week to do that. 
But I do agree with exercising the fast twitch muscles every now and then


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## Dave Cutter (Sep 26, 2012)

I am way too old to race. My training is for personal goals I cycle about 2000 miles a season.

It's too cold here for much bicycling... at least for me. I hate spinning in the basement. I cycle when I can in the winter months. Already been doing some walking/running and core exercises. I need to start going to the gym... was hoping I'd still be cycling this time of year.

I am also planning to experiment with balance exercises [again] this off season. I've read of a theory that the brain slows reaction time [AKA: speed] to match it's perceived sense of balance.


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## Poncharelli (May 7, 2006)

spade2you said:


> So, you're telling us that you're basically doing 6 hours a week of anaerobic?


That's pretty much impossible. That would be doing a 1 hour TT , six days a week. And a TT is technically not purely anaerobic I believe. Partially aerobic and anaerobic, right at the dividing line. 

A VO2max effort is definitely anaerobic, and if you can do 25 minutes of that per day (5X5' minute intervals, for example), that's pretty good. But for 6 days in a row? All year round?

I'm calling "a gross mis-estimation" on this one.


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## Poncharelli (May 7, 2006)

Wookiebiker said:


> 30 minutes on the trainer each weekday morning before work
> 2 hours on the trainer Tuesday, Wednesday and Thursday (a mix of endurance and tempo work)
> 7 - 8 hours of riding outside (group ride on Saturday) on the weekends
> 
> I was able to get in right at 16 hours this week ... 133.4 miles and 7 hours 51 minutes this weekend. on the road, 8 hours on the trainer and 40 minutes of "neighborhood" riding while working on my bikes.


Amazing stuff there. 8 hours of midweek trainer work. You are one mentally tough and dedicated dude.


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## Cableguy (Jun 6, 2010)

Poncharelli said:


> A VO2max effort is definitely anaerobic, and if you can do 25 minutes of that per day (5X5' minute intervals, for example), that's pretty good. But for 6 days in a row? All year round?
> 
> I'm calling BS on this one.


I'm certainly not doing anything remotely close to 6 hours of VO2 max work per week, but in my opinion that's not the only type of "anaerobic effort." Most resources I've read lump anything above ~85% max HR as "anaerobic" and so that's the term I use. It may not be purely anaerobic, but I would still refer to it generally as anaerobic. Based on my HR values, I would consider 85%+ FTP to be anaerobic, and 80% FTP to be about on the fence between tempo and anaerobic.



Poncharelli said:


> That's pretty much impossible. That would be doing a 1 hour TT , six days a week. And a TT is technically not purely anaerobic I believe. Partially aerobic and anaerobic, right at the dividing line.


Again, depends on what you would label "anaerobic". I agree doing 6 hours of VO2 max effort work per week is insane and probably physically impossible.


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## Crank-a-Roo (Mar 21, 2003)

I see LSD as a way to get my sanity back. . I also have different routes for the winter months. I focus on riding near the water and keep my heart rate low by enjoying the view.


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## Poncharelli (May 7, 2006)

Local Hero said:


> I've been riding 20+ hours every week.


Are you a Pro, Cat 1, or Cat 2?

There seems to be such a strong correlation between training hours and level, it's almost like a chicken and egg thing (what came first?). In my observation, it seems that the hours come first. 

I'm a 46-yr old Cat 3 with slightly less than average natural ability. But if I upticked my hours to 15-20 hour weeks, I'm about 95% certain I could earn a Cat 2 upgrade, even at my age.


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## JohnStonebarger (Jan 22, 2004)

Let's see... cyclocross through December, then xc skiing, running, swimming... what's "base?"


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## The Human G-Nome (Aug 26, 2002)

I am putting in about 17 hours a week on average. The vast majority of this is Zone1/2. There has got to be others out there who are going out of there way to do a lot of their LSD in the mountains? I am putting in 8 to 9k feet of climbing on Saturdays, but am spinning up in the easiest gear. And old coach lent me this trick about 8 years ago. It is hard not to ride with teammates, but I don't think anyone else shares my training plan. 

Also, I am still choosing Tuesday evening to put in the really hard hill intervals so that's just 1.5 hours per week of actual intensity. It is hard to understand why someone would require more than this to keep their anaerobic pathways sharp. 

On Wednesdays, I do a 2.5 hour tempo ride with an average cadence around 100 to 105. 

On Sundays, I ride with the GF and don't even hit Zone 2 over the 63 miles we ride. We ride out to Nicasio General store and hit up the BLTs for lunch. I look forward to it all week. 

I had a friend once who adopted the LSD climbing plan one year after experiencing very limited success over his first two years of racing. He went out that year and destroyed all comers in the climby races for that season and upgraded in quick fashion. Think about just how much climbing you can get in, and still be fresh for the rest of your week and your intervals, when you bother to go that slow on the long climbs.


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## Local Hero (Jul 8, 2010)

Poncharelli said:


> Are you a Pro, Cat 1, or Cat 2?
> 
> There seems to be such a strong correlation between training hours and level, it's almost like a chicken and egg thing (what came first?). In my observation, it seems that the hours come first.
> 
> I'm a 46-yr old Cat 3 with slightly less than average natural ability. But if I upticked my hours to 15-20 hour weeks, I'm about 95% certain I could earn a Cat 2 upgrade, even at my age.


I think the hours come first. 

My teammate/friend is fairly new to cycling (Cat4) and eager to upgrade. I don't track my riding on strava but I follow him. Here are his last two months: 

September: 2,804.2km 98hr 51m 31,182m
October: 2,632.2km 94hr 43m 25,617m

During that time he rode a 29 hour week. 

The dude hits 2 hours in the morning, every morning. Then he rides again in the afternoons. Centuries on Saturday and Sunday. He's not going easy either, breaking little strava PRs and contesting KOMs -- way too hard for my tastes. 

As I said above, I just roll around for 2-3.5 hours on my daily ride, no intensity unless you count spinning up a hill. Then longer rides on the weekends. And when guys raise the tempo I let them roll off the front. 

Once the racing starts I'll lower the volume and do my 100 minutes at 100 watts recovery rides after hard days.


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## Ghost234 (Jun 1, 2010)

For the last 4 years I've always followed the general training plan with base followed by a general build phase. This year due to my own lazyness I didn't do much base work - and now that I am getting into the sport, I am seeing huge problems with my riding. 

While my power numbers to heart rate are at the same levels they were at my peak of last season, I can't repeat any effort remotely similar to what I could then. Before I could do 300w for 20 minutes 3 or 4 times without any dismay. Now, I'm struggling to hold 300w for 20 minutes once - even though my heart rate is WELL below threshold - my legs just tire quickly. Any endurance ride over 2 hours has me exhausted when I get back. I used to be able to go non-stop for 4 hours and feel fine. Luckily, I have a number of years prior to help build me back up and I am already seeing my endurance returning. 


So take it from me: do your base miles. It sucks, but simply doing zone 2 work for 2-3 hours at a time works wonders in the long run. This is an endurance sport. While being able to hold 500w for 5 minutes is nice, usually you will be required to do that at the end of a 3 hour race and you need to have to ability to produce power even when fatigue is starting to set in.


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## The Human G-Nome (Aug 26, 2002)

Ghost234 said:


> For the last 4 years I've always followed the general training plan with base followed by a general build phase. This year due to my own lazyness I didn't do much base work - and now that I am getting into the sport, I am seeing huge problems with my riding.
> 
> While my power numbers to heart rate are at the same levels they were at my peak of last season, I can't repeat any effort remotely similar to what I could then. Before I could do 300w for 20 minutes 3 or 4 times without any dismay. Now, I'm struggling to hold 300w for 20 minutes once - even though my heart rate is WELL below threshold - my legs just tire quickly. Any endurance ride over 2 hours has me exhausted when I get back. I used to be able to go non-stop for 4 hours and feel fine. Luckily, I have a number of years prior to help build me back up and I am already seeing my endurance returning.
> 
> ...


Very well put. There are a lot of people discounting basemiles these days, and I can only hope that you are among my competition.


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## Local Hero (Jul 8, 2010)

How many of you guys are doing an interval workout during your base training? 

Something like 3X15 or 3X20 hill climbs?


I am not doing anything intentionally. But I will repeatedly spin up 10-30 minute hills.


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## spade2you (May 12, 2009)

The Human G-Nome said:


> Very well put. There are a lot of people discounting basemiles these days, and I can only hope that you are among my competition.


Can't argue with that. 

While there may be ways to simulate longer amounts of time with a shorter and more intense effort, your body needs to be able to spend long amounts of time on the bike when in a road race and/or stage race.


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## The Human G-Nome (Aug 26, 2002)

I am doing 4x10s on Tuesdays. Those are my only intervals for the week, and I do them all out.


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## wesb321 (Oct 1, 2011)

Not familiar with the LSD term but it sounds like what I have been told to do this year. Find 6% grades and just ride it with an avg 134HR and a 50-60 rpm cadence. The guy says' it helps tremendously with the nasty climbs in races. It hadn't occurred to me to do them in the easiest gear, I have been pushing the 50 slow and steady up the climbs. When you say spinning are you using the smaller 34 or 39 ring then?


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## jmitro (Jun 29, 2011)

The Human G-Nome said:


> I am doing 4x10s on Tuesdays. Those are my only intervals for the week, and I do them all out.


same here....just did it tonight. Overall I'll ride slower during the winter, but a weekly interval keeps me from getting too monotonous. I do them at threshold


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## Local Hero (Jul 8, 2010)

wesb321 said:


> Not familiar with the LSD term but it sounds like what I have been told to do this year. Find 6% grades and just ride it with an avg 134HR and a 50-60 rpm cadence. The guy says' it helps tremendously with the nasty climbs in races. It hadn't occurred to me to do them in the easiest gear, I have been pushing the 50 slow and steady up the climbs. When you say spinning are you using the smaller 34 or 39 ring then?


My spinning is 39X28


The Human G-Nome said:


> I am doing 4x10s on Tuesdays. Those are my only intervals for the week, and I do them all out.


Any hill repeats? Do you have a powermeter? (If power, what %FTP?)


jmitro said:


> same here....just did it tonight. Overall I'll ride slower during the winter, but a weekly interval keeps me from getting too monotonous. I do them at threshold


Ah, threshold!


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## mjengstrom (Apr 20, 2009)

Are there any guidelines around when it makes sense to use LSD rides in the winter vs. working on building FTP and/or VO2? For example if you only rode 3 time week for a total of 4-5 hours per week, would you still do LSD? Is there a minimum CTL to make it worth while? In the winter I generally do 1 hour interval sessions on tue and Thur and if the roads are ok, I try to get in a 2-3 hour endurance ride. With swimming and running that is about all I can fit in.


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## Local Hero (Jul 8, 2010)

mjengstrom said:


> Are there any guidelines around when it makes sense to use LSD rides in the winter vs. working on building FTP and/or VO2? For example if you only rode 3 time week for a total of 4-5 hours per week, would you still do LSD? Is there a minimum CTL to make it worth while? In the winter I generally do 1 hour interval sessions on tue and Thur and if the roads are ok, I try to get in a 2-3 hour endurance ride. With swimming and running that is about all I can fit in.


Have you read the time crunched cyclist? The basic model uses higher intensity in fewer hours. It leads to a burnout and requires a week or two of rest every 12 weeks. But the base level goes up every cycle. I'm probably not doing it justice. 

If you've only got 4-5 hours you might want to check it out.


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## woodys737 (Dec 31, 2005)

wesb321 said:


> Not familiar with the LSD term but it sounds like what I have been told to do this year. Find 6% grades and just ride it with an avg 134HR and a 50-60 rpm cadence. The guy says' it helps tremendously with the nasty climbs in races. It hadn't occurred to me to do them in the easiest gear, I have been pushing the 50 slow and steady up the climbs. When you say spinning are you using the smaller 34 or 39 ring then?


LSD is just endurance riding. Period. A lot of miles/time at a slow, steady pace. It doesn't matter what grade. It doesn't matter what cadence. And HR is totally dependent on the individual riders LTHR. Don't ride at 134 just because someone said to. Don't ride at a cadence someone told you. Don't ride in any particular gear. Find your LTHR compute your zones and ride YOUR endurance HR for a long friggin time. What ever damn gear, cadence and grade you want. That is LSD.


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## Wookiebiker (Sep 5, 2005)

Poncharelli said:


> Amazing stuff there. 8 hours of midweek trainer work. You are one mentally tough and dedicated dude.


Over time I've aged and become wiser ... so I don't do as much time on my trainer as I used to. This year, I bought a winter road bike with disc brakes so I could get out for long rides on both days during the weekend which would allow me to reduce my time on the trainer.

In the past I used to do 3.5 hour trainer rides ... now that took a little mental toughness  However, it did lead to my best road racing year ever :thumbsup:


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## cyclesport45 (Dec 10, 2007)

woodys737 said:


> LSD is just endurance riding. Period. A lot of miles/time at a slow, steady pace. It doesn't matter what grade. It doesn't matter what cadence. And HR is totally dependent on the individual riders LTHR. Don't ride at 134 just because someone said to. Don't ride at a cadence someone told you. Don't ride in any particular gear. Find your LTHR compute your zones and ride YOUR endurance HR for a long friggin time. What ever damn gear, cadence and grade you want. That is LSD.


That. Exactly. I put away all the numbers, graphs, charts, books, theories, and training plans. I tell my skinny, hill-climbing demon training buddy that he can wait for me at the top of the Big Hill (unless I feel like sufferin g a little). Sometimes, I plan to ride in the afternoon, and I come home and. . . don't!

Still doing 3 to 400 milesper month in "Recovery Season", just with no particular structure. By first of the year, I'll be ready to ramp up again.


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## Poncharelli (May 7, 2006)

mjengstrom said:


> Are there any guidelines around when it makes sense to use LSD rides in the winter vs. working on building FTP and/or VO2? For example if you only rode 3 time week for a total of 4-5 hours per week, would you still do LSD? Is there a minimum CTL to make it worth while? In the winter I generally do 1 hour interval sessions on tue and Thur and if the roads are ok, I try to get in a 2-3 hour endurance ride. With swimming and running that is about all I can fit in.


As one elite coach wrote in another forum, that when doing base training, enough hours have to be performed to stress your body. That will vary for everyone. 

In January, 8 hours a week can get you a bit tired. But by February, probably not due to increased strength and fitness. So must increase hours to 10 or 12 or more to stress your body. What I like to call base is "stress by volume". So for me, it's not much different from a build period, except with a different stressor (build periods adds stress by intensity). 

When a person is time crunched and can't do enough volume to stress the system, that's when things get tricky. People who try to make up for lack of riding time with added intensity will be sacrificing endurance and plus other physiological improvements.


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## jldickerson3 (Mar 9, 2006)

*Building a Big Gas Tank: 16-20hrs/Wk in Base- Targeting Battenkill*

I've lucked out this year, and I'm in the fortunate position of having a stable, not super demanding job, an 24mi RT bike commute to work (that I can skip by taking the train), no kids, low commitment female's, and only one outside of work commitment to a non-profit. In short, I have the time to ride, and I love to ride. I also recognize that this situation will likely not be the case in a year or two, so I gotta go for the glory ASAP. My first A race will be Tour of Battenkill in April.

I'm not a spring-chicken. I'm 31, I've been racing for ~10yrs, but never put back-to-back training years together or been very structured in my approach to training or racing. I've always been very athletic (Ball sports, Competitive Muay Thai and BJJ fighting), and pulled off a few results in Cat 3/4 and sport Mtn bike races a while back. 

Currently, I'm just wrapping up the 3wk, 60hr challenge on Strava (Strava Follow Here). By this evening, I'll have put in 55hrs with 3hrs scheduled for Friday and 3-4hrs for Saturday since October 20th. In short, it's been an amazing process putting in so much saddle time. It's been a logistical and physical challenge that has spurred me to go to bed early, get up at 6am, ride by 7am, and to ride until 8:30pm coming home.

The two-a-day schedule of commuting has really helped me string it all together. The commute alone, adds up to a bare minimum 7.5 hrs/week. To hit my 20hr/wk goal, I'm getting 1.5-2hrs in the mornings (25-20mi), and 2-3hrs (25-40mi) in the evenings. I work from home on Friday, and flex my schedule to get in long solo rides of 60-80mi. I'm joining a team this year for race season, Veloworks-Spokes Etc., out of Alexandria, VA, and ride with them on the weekends adding 3-5hrs on Saturday and Sunday. I'm super motivated to join a focused, dedicated team, so I really want to prepare for a great season. Coming out of this, I've got four days of rest (no riding or easy 1h roller sessions) scheduled, and then power testing at the end of the week.

It seems like lots of folks talk about this phase as being super-boring. I've had the complete opposite experience. This has been some of the most fun, beautiful time I've ever spent on my bike, and it gives me lots of confidence heading into the Build phases in prep for Tour of Battenkill in April.

Now, I don't know what kinds of "juice" some guys are on that can put in big volume and high intensity. This much saddle time for me demands commitment to Zone 2/3 riding. I have had a couple hard sessions, since this challenge came right in the middle of CX season. At the beginning of the challenge, I was trying to combine CX with the long rides. That didn't last long as at the last CX race, I was so tired and underpowered that I got passed by most of the junior category rides that started 1min after my group. :thumbsup:

According to Joe Friel, LSD Zone 2/3 riding in the base phase is "Training to Train". It's prepares the aerobic system for a long season of hard work. The way I see it, I need my aerobic system tuned well-enough that I can spend 80-90% of all my races riding in Zone 3 for Men's Cat 3/4. If I can comfortable ride in this range for most of the race, when the race goes to hell, I'll be cool enough that I won't immediately catch fire and go out the back. 

I've come to see Base like building an increasingly big gas tank on a car. The bigger the tank the further the car can go. After Base, Build I starts adding the high test gasoline with FTP intervals, while build II adds in the jet fuel and nitrous oxide with VO2 Max and sprint work. The bigger the gas tank the more fuel to do do really hard work. (At least I hope so, I have no excuse for showing up next season and sucking eggs, except that I really do inherently suck.) Incidentally, this challenge has led to my TSS just ticking over 100, and my weight has dropped to 167 at 8% body fat with a target of 158 at 4% body fat in April. Still waiting on FTP testing numbers. Borrowing a Powertap, so should give me some objective feedback on how to structure the rest of my training.

With 21.5 weeks until ToB, I'll be focusing in on continuing to build muscular endurance for a high intensity 62mi race, increasing my FTP across the board, decreasing my weight, stacking up VO2 Max intervals so I can repeatedly spike w/kg on the climbs, and hitting the sprint intervals so I can finish off the race.


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## Cableguy (Jun 6, 2010)

Poncharelli said:


> When a person is time crunched and can't do enough volume to stress the system, that's when things get tricky. *People who try to make up for lack of riding time with added intensity will be sacrificing endurance and other important physiological improvements.*


I've actually tried this before for severals months and at the end concluded I just wasted a lot of time. If trying to build and get faster, I believe base miles are effective, but only if done with *enough volume to stress your body*. Otherwise IMO you're either recovering, looking for a mental break, or just wasting your time. Pick one! Switching from X hours per week with lots of intervals, to X hours per week of primarily just LSD, will result in your body adapting to a lesser volume. Which means you'll get better... at doing less. I'm getting consistent and measurable results by using intensity to create sufficient volume to overload my body. I don't have the time to do regular 3+ hr LSD rides, so I use that hour I have on the trainer for intervals.


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## Poncharelli (May 7, 2006)

Cableguy said:


> I've actually tried this before for severals months and at the end concluded I just wasted a lot of time. If trying to build and get faster, I believe base miles are effective, but only if done with *enough volume to stress your body*. Otherwise IMO you're either recovering, looking for a mental break, or just wasting your time. Pick one! Switching from X hours per week with lots of intervals, to X hours per week of primarily just LSD, will result in your body adapting to a lesser volume. Which means you'll get better... at doing less. I'm getting consistent and measurable results by using intensity to create sufficient volume to overload my body. I don't have the time to do regular 3+ hr LSD rides, so I use that hour I have on the trainer for intervals.


Good points. But from my statement above, just take this: For a given stress load, different physiological adaptations are optimized at different intensities. For example, a 1 hour TT may not be as optimal at building say blood volume, mitochondria size, or capillary optimization........as 4 hours at Zone 2. Similar stress load, but different physiological optimizations. 

Another thing the elite coach (K. Wilson) noted, was that after about 2 weeks, the same training pattern starts losing it's effectiveness. So another advantage of base training is that it introduces *change* in one's training. Training should change and evolve in order to optimize improvement and reach peak performance for key events. Definitely a tricky thing to do. I've done it, but needed help planning it.


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## spade2you (May 12, 2009)

Cableguy said:


> I've actually tried this before for severals months and at the end concluded I just wasted a lot of time. If trying to build and get faster, I believe base miles are effective, but only if done with *enough volume to stress your body*. Otherwise IMO you're either recovering, looking for a mental break, or just wasting your time. Pick one! Switching from X hours per week with lots of intervals, to X hours per week of primarily just LSD, will result in your body adapting to a lesser volume. Which means you'll get better... at doing less. I'm getting consistent and measurable results by using intensity to create sufficient volume to overload my body. I don't have the time to do regular 3+ hr LSD rides, so I use that hour I have on the trainer for intervals.


How many seasons have you used this plan and what kind of results have you gotten?


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## locustfist (Feb 21, 2009)

Local Hero said:


> How many of you guys are doing an interval workout during your base training?
> 
> Something like 3X15 or 3X20 hill climbs?
> 
> ...


On my long ride on Fridays I route it to hit some stiff climbs, it's about the only time during base phase I push it


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## Cableguy (Jun 6, 2010)

spade2you said:


> How many seasons have you used this plan and what kind of results have you gotten?


I've had a bike for ~3 years, not long. First year mostly getting a feel for the bike, didn't really know what I was doing and whenever I rode would tend to go all out. Not many hours in the saddle, partly because I was pretty out of shape when I started and could only handle a small volume. 

Second year I had built up to more mileage and got a PM. I was doing about ~150 mi/wk. I seemed to hit a platueue and this is when I tried doing "base miles" per information I read online (replaced X hours of high intensity work for X hours of LSD) for around ~3 months... I still did some high intensity work but forced myself to go slow <70% max HR a large percentage of the time. I got worse across the board at everything, even at doing LSD. Didn't physically feel like I was gaining anything or getting a reasonable workout and my analysis seemed to confirm that. Went back to the normal routine for a while, but wasn't really getting faster than before. Decided to go "full retard" sort of speak and do a 300mi week of mostly hard efforts... initially I wanted to see if I could just do it for one week, then ended up continuing it for about 3 months non stop and achieved huge improvements. Much bigger volume. I would estimate my power numbers ended up about 10% higher.

That takes us to the third year. I would have kept going but had a very bad accident, and was off the bike for several months. Once I was on the bike again it took a little bit to get into the swing of things. Now, in the last ~4 months there's been like 2 days where I didn't do intervals and have been doing ~12 hrs/wk (about 240mi/wk). I set all time CP numbers for various durations every week or two, except <5 sec (sprint) due to a broken leg from the accident. My relative strong point is efforts above 5 min, but I mix up the intervals and how they're done so that I work on just about every duration. I would estimate my power numbers have increased an additional 5%, except in 3-5min (only small increase) and <5sec (decrease due to broken leg).


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## spade2you (May 12, 2009)

Race performance?


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## Cableguy (Jun 6, 2010)

spade2you said:


> Race performance?


Not a big fan of races (aka riding in big clumps with other amateurs), kind of prefer using myself as my own measuring stick. I've done 3 sanctioned races ever, none this year though. Two of them were uphill TTs. The other was a crit, my weakpoint to begin with, and I did poorly mainly because I like to play it safe rather than take risks fighting for position. At the end of 2011 I had joined a team for this year's season but with the accident that wasn't meant to be. Not sure how interested I am in racing next season... I'll probably give in to peer pressure and dabble in it, but to a certain extent I think it's silly.


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## spade2you (May 12, 2009)

Cableguy said:


> Not a big fan of races (aka riding in big clumps with other amateurs), kind of prefer using myself as my own measuring stick. I've done 3 sanctioned races ever, none this year though. Two of them were uphill TTs. The other was a crit, my weakpoint to begin with, and I did poorly mainly because I like to play it safe rather than take risks fighting for position. At the end of 2011 I had joined a team for this year's season but with the accident that wasn't meant to be. Not sure how interested I am in racing next season... I'll probably give in to peer pressure and dabble in it, but to a certain extent I think it's silly.


With all due respect, as an active racer you don't get to decide when you're racing. Even though I tend to put most of my focus on the individual time trial, I still am obligated to make sure my form is ideal for that time frame. I could probably crush it this weekend, but a personal record outside of racing doesn't mean a whole lot to me compared to race day results. 

I'm not a crit guy, but I'll still do road races that have course conditions that create separation. Mass starts force you be able to adapt to constant changes in pace and often means you need to ride at your max and hope they let up so you can hang on. 

If you're racing yourself and on your schedule, it's a lot easier to win I guess.


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## Fireform (Dec 15, 2005)

I know crits have their place and they can be fun, but I just don't like them. Lots of guys can go fast for 20 miles, so you get a lot of crazy antics. In a longer road race you can always tell the crit heroes. They're the ones in the lead peloton who drop in droves after 30 miles.


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## Cableguy (Jun 6, 2010)

spade2you said:


> With all due respect, as an active racer you don't get to decide when you're racing. Even though I tend to put most of my focus on the individual time trial, I still am obligated to make sure my form is ideal for that time frame.


It's all about enjoying what you're doing. If you don't like being forced to do certain races, you could join a different team or race by yourself. 



spade2you said:


> If you're racing yourself and on your schedule, it's a lot easier to win I guess.


I'm interested in my personal progress, and leveraging my safety in a race to win against other people more desperate than me to prove something isn't really necessary to measure that.


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## spade2you (May 12, 2009)

Cableguy said:


> I'm interested in my personal progress, and leveraging my safety in a race to win against other people more desperate than me to prove something isn't really necessary to measure that.


Then become a time trial specialist.


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## Local Hero (Jul 8, 2010)

jldickerson3 said:


> heading into the Build phases in prep for Tour of Battenkill in April.
> ...
> I've come to see Base like building an increasingly big gas tank on a car. The bigger the tank the further the car can go. After Base, Build I starts adding the high test gasoline with FTP intervals, while build II adds in the jet fuel and nitrous oxide with VO2 Max and sprint work.
> ...
> With 21.5 weeks until ToB, I'll be focusing in on continuing to build muscular endurance for a high intensity 62mi race, increasing my FTP across the board, decreasing my weight, stacking up VO2 Max intervals so I can repeatedly spike w/kg on the climbs, and hitting the sprint intervals so I can finish off the race.


Thanks for everything you wrote. It sounds like you have a well thought-out plan with a specific goal. Kudos!

I trimmed down your post for brevity and to ask a question specific about your schedule and training plan, as I would also like to peak in April. My goals are centered around Sea Otter Classic. I won a few races there last year and would kill to repeat. To my questions: 

When do you plan on moving from base to build? 

When will you start racing? 

How many races will you do in preparation for Battenkill?


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## mjengstrom (Apr 20, 2009)

Thanks for the feedback and book idea. I havent read this one, but read Time Crunched Triathlete. I heard a lot of concepts were similar.

I am also planning on signing up for Tour of the Battenkill. But would be a lowly CAT 5 in the 45+ group. This would be my first Road Race, but I have done a bunch of Crits (And Triathlons) over the years. I am fairly good at climbing and TT'ing. Being race ready that early in the season will be the hard part for me (and riding on gravel on descents). I have no expectations of winning, but dont want to be at spit out the back either. My CTL for biking is no where near yours. I peaked around 55 (80 if I include running and swimming), but have already dropped to 35 for biking so trying to build my plan for the winter to maximize my training for this race (without losing too much running and swimming fitness). Since I dont have lots of time for lots of LSD rides, the only way I can build my CTL is to add intensity thru intervals. Most of my intervals are sweet spot or threashold so nothing too crazy. Although for this race, I think at some point I need to work above threashold so I can keep up with the surges. 

I am sure I will be regretting signing up for this race as I get spit out the back. I just hope its not too early on.


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## Cableguy (Jun 6, 2010)

spade2you said:


> Then become a time trial specialist.


I like turtles and uphill TTs. Been focusing some of my training for a particular one next season, unfortunately missed doing it this season due to injury.


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## brady1 (Aug 18, 2011)

Cableguy said:


> I like turtles and uphill TTs. Been focusing some of my training for a particular one next season, unfortunately missed doing it this season due to injury.


Then focus on endurance races. 

I've been doing them for a while, and there are all types of riders in them; competitive guys going for the win, others looking for a personal best, some others doing it just to finish, and as Fireform alluded to, some crits guys (or at least races without much of an endurance base) that drop off around 30-40 miles. 

There are all types of classifications within this category too. Marathon MTB races, gravel grinders, RAAM qualifiers, Gran Fondos (not technically a race though...)


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## Poncharelli (May 7, 2006)

spade2you said:


> How many seasons have you used this plan and what kind of results have you gotten?


Ooops. Found a better place to respond above.....


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## Poncharelli (May 7, 2006)

Cableguy said:


> Not a big fan of races (aka riding in big clumps with other amateurs), kind of prefer using myself as my own measuring stick. I've done 3 sanctioned races ever, none this year though. Two of them were uphill TTs. The other was a crit, my weakpoint to begin with, and I did poorly mainly because I like to play it safe rather than take risks fighting for position. At the end of 2011 I had joined a team for this year's season but with the accident that wasn't meant to be. Not sure how interested I am in racing next season... I'll probably give in to peer pressure and dabble in it, but to a certain extent I think it's silly.


I race Masters 1-2-3 road, Cat 1 MTB, and Master C cyclocross (moving to Bs soon). Should have about 30 races total in this season (5 more cyclocross races left). 

I guess that's why I care so much about proper base miles.


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## Poncharelli (May 7, 2006)

spade2you said:


> If you're racing yourself and on your schedule, it's a lot easier to win I guess.


Good point. I race so much and get my a$$ kicked so often that eventually I seek the best methods for getting my own peak performance. And for me, that's been though more and properly planned base miles. Pretty much by the book. Friel book that is.


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## Cableguy (Jun 6, 2010)

brady1 said:


> Then focus on endurance races.


Thanks for the suggestion, not a fan of the ultra distance stuff though.



Poncharelli said:


> I race Masters 1-2-3 road, Cat 1 MTB, and Master C cyclocross (moving to Bs soon). Should have about 30 races total in this season (5 more cyclocross races left).
> 
> I guess that's why I care so much about proper base miles.


I like your assumption. Because I don't regularly pay to do sanctioned races I must care less about my fitness than you. I'm aware of what has been written by reputable sources about base miles. I've given it consideration and have experimented with it. I'm doing what is *proven* to be working for me right now. When it stops working I'll go back to the drawing board. 



spade2you said:


> If you're racing yourself and on your schedule, it's a lot easier to win I guess.
> 
> 
> Poncharelli said:
> ...


So let me get this straight, I haven't done enough sanctioned races to have any ambitious goals for myself... and what goals I do have must be a joke - at least compared to yours - because I clearly don't understand how slow I am? Oy vey...


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## Local Hero (Jul 8, 2010)

During the 1950s there was a runner who trained in a way that would make modern coaches cringe. Modern coaches have runners put down a HUGE base, running 60-100 miles per week one or two tempo workouts. Back to the 1950s: This guy was doing primarily speedwork and VO2 max workouts, 55-60 second repeats with short recovery multiple times a week. Did it work? Roger Bannister - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia 

There's more than one way to skin a cat. 

Intervals and primarily VO2 max may not be ideal but it WILL improve fitness. Such a routine requires rest every so often (three months?) but the baseline goes up every cycle. It's not the best plan for someone (like me) who plans on another season of 40+ races -- such high intensity will burn a person out. And that's the disconnect. Since Cableguy isn't doing the normal season of racing his winter training does not make sense to us. But if Cableguy's training works for him and makes him happy I'm not going to worry about it.


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## brady1 (Aug 18, 2011)

Local Hero said:


> During the 1950s there was a runner who trained in a way that would make modern coaches cringe. Modern coaches have runners put down a HUGE base, running 60-100 miles per week one or two tempo workouts. Back to the 1950s: This guy was doing primarily speedwork and VO2 max workouts, 55-60 second repeats with short recovery multiple times a week. Did it work? Roger Bannister - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
> 
> Intervals and primarily VO2 max may not be ideal but it WILL improve fitness. Such a routine requires rest every so often (three months?) but the baseline goes up every cycle. It's not the best plan for someone (like me) who plans on another season of 40+ races -- such high intensity will burn a person out. And that's the disconnect. Since Cableguy isn't doing the normal season of racing his winter training does not make sense to us. But if Cableguy's training works for him and makes him happy I'm not going to worry about it.


It's posts like this and others that make me think there really is something to maintaining a little bit of threshold and VO2 max work throughout the base period. Maybe about once a week though; nothing like what you would do during the race season.

I saw an interview with Greg LeMond recently where he basically said the same thing. He used a weightlifting analogy to describe how we should go about training. Say a weight lifter works up to 1000lbs, he said, then comes the off season and he only lifts 200lbs for a few months. Well, you're going to lose all that fitness/strength that you gained.

While he agreed that base should be a time of recovery, both physically and mentally, he mentioned doing maybe one day a week during base of intense intervals to maintain that fitness you worked all season for. Nothing that would burn you out though.

I started incorporating some of that this year. Not necessarily a set-in-stone THIS day is my interval day but doing a few hill repeats within my longer rides. I may set aside a day just for intervals once I'm stuck on the trainer on a regular basis just for repeatability of a certain workout or something.


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## spade2you (May 12, 2009)

Cableguy said:


> So let me get this straight, I haven't done enough sanctioned races to have any ambitious goals for myself... and what goals I do have must be a joke - at least compared to yours - because I clearly don't understand how slow I am? Oy vey...


The proof is in the pudding. You're telling us that base miles are inferior to your plan and you're not even backing it up. At 6 hours a week of anaerobic, you'd think you could just ride away from the _dangerous_ field. At the very least, you should be strong enough that you could string out the field and make things safer. 

Most of us who train with a plan still enjoy riding or we'd quit. LSD and training certain weaker areas aren't something I enjoy doing. Nonetheless, I am more than willing to put my money where my mouth is and pin a number. Racing is hard and I need every advantage I can get. Under the Friel plan, my summer time trials keep getting better and better when it counts.


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## Cableguy (Jun 6, 2010)

spade2you said:


> You're telling us that base miles are inferior to your plan and you're not even backing it up.


What do you mean?



spade2you said:


> At 6 hours a week of anaerobic, you'd think you could just ride away from the _dangerous_ field. At the very least, you should be strong enough that you could string out the field and make things safer.


If it's that simple why don't you stop base training and do 6 hours per week of anaerobic so you can ride off the front? =P


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## woodys737 (Dec 31, 2005)

Just a suggestion. Make a small investment in a power meter...

If you are reading this thread you are most likely interested in improving your fitness/performance on the bike. The benchmark way to verify that your training is going in the right direction (or not) is via a power meter. You can find older power taps out there for a few hundred dollars now so there isn't much excuse not to train with power in this day and age. 

As far as base goes I can only offer my opinion as an average run of the mill cat 2. There seems to be a good correlation in my power that doing high volume prior to building and peaking leads to a higher FTP. I think it's because I can do better quality intervals later in the training cycle. Some of the races I am targeting for next season are Tour of Gila, Ironhorse Classic, Manhattan Beach and Tucson Bicycle classic just to give you an idea of the kind of ass kicking I'm trying to avoid. 

Probably the most important thing we can do as career and family guys is to stay healthy and always focus on having fun. If you have lofty goals then yeah you may ride when you don't want to but I guess my point is in doing quality work outs. That's where a power meter can really help.


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