# Custom carbon clinchers, how low can you go!



## CARBON110 (Apr 17, 2002)

Can't get them to tubie weight no matter how you see it.

Lightest front hub-American Classic 68grams
Lightest Rear Hub-take your pick, Zipp 202grams, American Classic 200grams,Tune 200grams

20front sapim spokes at 5grams a piece = 80grams 
28rear sapim spokes 5 grams a piece = 140grams

Nipples = ?grams

Lightest clinchers Nimble Fly = 400grams per rim so 800 set

Total 1288grams

Of course if we had the AMerican CLassic 350 rim then it would be 100 grams lighter still !!!


----------



## divve (May 3, 2002)

Tune hubs depending on the model are 10-25 grams lighter. The spokes are your listed weight including Sapim Polyax aluminum nipples. 

As for rims, the the Nimble Fly isn't really a full carbon clincher. It's carbon bonded to an aluminum base. Together with carbon clinchers a rather dubious construction.

Any aluminum clincher significantly under 400 grams can't be taken seriously either. Therefore
AMC shouldn't be considered. Neither should their hubs with microscopic bearings and unreliable freewheel mechanisms.

I think realistically speaking about 1350 grams would be as low as you can get for an everyday clincher that also displays good performance characteristics.


----------



## CARBON110 (Apr 17, 2002)

*really?*

I didn't know that about Nimbles Fly rims thanks Divve.

I know AMC has issues with hubs but they can get you through a season fairly well, or mine did. These wheels would be for riders 140lbs or less

I haven't seen teh 350 rim so I can't comment. I am certain the brake surface is minimal, have you toyed with them Divve?

I did own Rolfs Elans and beat them hard. The hubs rims and brake surface held up beyond my expectation. I rode them in heavy rain, snow, sun, rough roads.......


----------



## buffedupboy (Feb 6, 2003)

*Trying hard*

We build custom wheels here. I've been trying to introduce a real world wheel less than 1.5kg for awhile now, and to make things a little harder, they gotta come in at about USD200 retail. Currently our main offering is about 1.55kg with a 30mm alu rim.

We've played with the AC CR 350s. They outright suck! The rims are so thin it is impossible to get a decent equal tension on them without them going bonkers. If you see a hole in front of you, jump, they are going to tacoe...(exageration). The braking surfave isn't much of a problem though.

Anyways, the lowest we can get wheels to are about 1.4kg.That's real world with nothing really special or crazy. No AC hubs, no sapim spokes, no sub 400g rim.

There is a reason why aluminium rims don't come under 400g.....and why major manufacturers have refused to lower the weights of their hubs for years now.

Anyways, if you really wanted to drop more weight from what you were suggesting, you can get a ti cassette carrier and alu nipples all around......


----------



## burlguy (Feb 19, 2005)

*Ha hahaha Yeah Am classic are garbage ....sure*

Hmm I battered mine pretty hard last Sunday. l 180 pounds of cranking tweaking muscle camel back and all . Yep they ran out of true about half a mm after I went across 14 bridges ,with there 3 inch gaps between sections and conti super sonics pumped to 150 psi ... Why is it they cant be taken serious? I am running the 28 -32 spoke count .... I guess if I didnt have the newer set with improved bearings and pawls I might be upset with them . But the truth is they are the best for the money and not stupid light... Now put 20 spokes on a 350 gram wheel and that is asking for trouble.


----------



## divve (May 3, 2002)

The rims simply aren't stable enough laterally in my opinion and the braking surface wears too fast for riding in bad weather. With more spokes they're better but still not as good as a decent rim with 28 spokes.

BTW, why do you pump tires up to 150psi? It increases rolling resistance on a regular road surface and feels very rough. I certainly wouldn't want to go on a 6 hour training ride with that....not even for 2 hours.


----------



## BarryG (Jul 5, 2004)

Here's another data point for the soup: I have a set of Dave Thomas built wheels with AC350 rims and hubs, 24/32 spoked. Haven't even had to true them after 5000 miles. FWIW, I'm a fairly svelte rider (<150#) and consider these totally reliable everyday wheels. Oh yeah, total weight on the set was 1320g.


----------



## Jamieshankland (Jan 8, 2005)

How reliable is a wheel thaaat light? I mean c'mon take a dump before your ride.


----------



## Coolhand (Jul 28, 2002)

Jamieshankland said:


> How reliable is a wheel thaaat light? I mean c'mon take a dump before your ride.


The Rolf Elan Aero's are that weight (real world digital scale proven over multiple samples) and plenty reliable. The "take a dump" agrument is one of the weakest out there- I mean what is the alternative? Not taking one? 

Yeah, exactly. Lighter wheels make sense for lighter riders who don't brake stuff. Aero lighter wheels make even more sense, but tend to do horrible things to your budget. . .


----------



## Jed Peters (Feb 4, 2004)

Velo Bella has 15 women racing and riding on the American Classic 350 models (std. build) since Jan. and not one of them has any issues.


----------



## SDizzle (May 1, 2004)

I can't comment on the quality of their rims/wheels, but I'm not totally impressed with my rear AC hub. It constantly came out of adjustment (which is fine, for a new hub - ONCE), and the serrations on the axle end were too shallow and allowed the wheel to slip in the dropouts under hard power. (I weigh 150lbs after Easter supper and a six pack.) At first I blamed that on a poorly designed QR cam, but then it kept doing it with a Campy skewer, and another poster reported a similar problem...

...And then Saturday morning I was taking things apart to get my bike all shiny for a Sunday morning hillclimb TT, and noticed that the rear axle was cracked and resultantly deformed. I'll post pics when I get a chance, but it's over for this hub and I. I spent Saturday afternoon - instead of riding - building a new wheel on a Record hub. My new wheel weighs a whopping 50g more than than that built with the AC hub, and the weight is all at the hub, so I'm not complaining, especially seeing as the chances of me breaking anything on a 32h 2x/3x Record wheel are slim to none.

That said, I still can't knock their chintzy-looking front hub. Mine's performed flawlessly, and has never needed break-in adjustment. Despite it's tiny flanges, it's remained true even built (by me) with 15/16 spokes.


----------



## bsavery123 (Nov 8, 2004)

Supposedly this years model is much better, espescially in the bearings. 

I have been using a set of AC 350s (1273g with sapim cx-rays) constantly for a few months now and have been completely impressed with strength and durability.


----------



## Bocephus Jones II (Oct 7, 2004)

bsavery123 said:


> Supposedly this years model is much better, espescially in the bearings.
> 
> I have been using a set of AC 350s (1273g with sapim cx-rays) constantly for a few months now and have been completely impressed with strength and durability.


What is the typical lifespan of wheels that light? A couple months doesn't seem to be long enough to make any verdict on longevity IMO.


----------



## SDizzle (May 1, 2004)

bsavery123 said:


> Supposedly this years model is much better, espescially in the bearings.
> 
> I have been using a set of AC 350s (1273g with sapim cx-rays) constantly for a few months now and have been completely impressed with strength and durability.


Mine _were_ the 05 model. I have not written to AC to see what their stance is on this, but I intend to. I needed a new wheel too quickly to wait for replacement parts even if they would warranty it.

The guys at Excel (my LBS) - with whom I tend to agree on most everything - said they make great race wheels, but not so good daily riders. I can't really speak to the quality of the hub(s) as a race bit either, given the mode of failure. I put 2000 miles on in about seven weeks, so maybe it just saw greater duty than it was meant to.

Again, I'm reasonably confident my only-slightly-heavier Record hub isn't going to fail any time soon...maybe ever.


----------



## dagger (Jul 22, 2004)

*Not from what I understand.*



divve said:


> BTW, why do you pump tires up to 150psi? It increases rolling resistance on a regular road surface and feels very rough..


Rougher yes but LESS rolling resistance.


----------



## divve (May 3, 2002)

There's enough research out there directly contradicting your understanding.


----------



## Asiago (Jan 28, 2004)

*Hey C110*



CARBON110 said:


> Can't get them to tubie weight no matter how you see it.
> 
> Lightest front hub-American Classic 68grams
> Lightest Rear Hub-take your pick, Zipp 202grams, American Classic 200grams,Tune 200grams
> ...


Didn't you get a pair of those new Bontrager Carbon Clinchers? What was your take on them? Did you run into any problems with them? I heard the rims were failing and the wheels disappeared for a while but seem to be back now. One thing I can comment about is that they sure are pricey!


----------



## CARBON110 (Apr 17, 2002)

*Asiagooooooooooooooooooooooo*

They wouldn't let me have them. They will be here in August =/ You shouldn't pay full price, but if you do they auuuuure are hella pricey!


----------



## DIRT BOY (Aug 22, 2002)

*Not carbon but real light...*










_Pro-climbing & Hi-sprinting, 24mm semi-areo rims laced to UltraHubs, 24+28 black bladed spokes, black Ergal nipples, 1180gr. (pair)_

So far they are riding pretty nice. They are going on the wife's bike after a few weeks of testing .

*Now Tubies:










UltraClimb SLN 

*Pro-climbing & Hi-sprinting, Nano Elite Carbon rims laced to UltraHubs, 20+24 aero Titanium spokes, Ergal ABS nipples, 895gr. (pair)










*UltraRoad SLZ
*Pro-climbing & Hi-sprinting, Zipp 280 Carbon rims laced to UltraHubs, 18+24 aero Titanium spokes, Ergal ABS nipples, 995gr. (pair)
<table x:str="" style="border-collapse: collapse; width: 628pt;" border="0" cellpadding="0" cellspacing="0" width="836"> <col style="width: 128pt;" width="170"><col> <tbody></tbody><col style="width: 500pt;" width="666"><tbody></tbody></table>


----------



## weiwentg (Feb 3, 2004)

any feedback on the hubs? I'm sure they're light. however, I note they have ti pawls (not pawl carriers, the actual pawls), and ti might eventually wear out in such an application. also, they're not as famous as, say, Tune.


----------



## Kaboom (Jul 18, 2003)

sure, u have 15 sub-140 pound chicks who have mechanics and who dont pay for those wheels. Of course they dont break if u have somoene mantaining them ALL the time!


----------

