# Palm and butt pain after 10 miles - New bike.



## anthonylokrn (Oct 7, 2010)

So I finally did my longest ride at 12 miles without stopping and noticed some pains that weren't apparent while at the LBS.

First off, the bike is a Specialized Roubaix size 54CM, I'm 5'8.5 with a 31" inseam.

I am wearing padded lycra shorts, cycling socks, Specialized clipless shoes w/ 105 pedals, and padded fingerless gloves.

I notice that I would tend to slide forward a bit on the saddle and end up not squarely on the sit bones. I find myself having to readjust and relieve saddle pressure about every mile.

Second, I'm getting palm pain (near the thumbs) and I'm constantly changing hand positions about every 5 minutes. I ride a Stumpjumper with Ergon GP1-S and have no hand pains at all.

The bike shop I purchased the bike at is a very small, non-tech shop. They set me on a trainer, checked my saddle height, and saddle position with the weighted spindle, then asked if I was comfortable.

Again, this was my first "long" ride. Should I leave things as is for now and just put more miles on it and see if the pain goes away? I'm planning on eventually getting a better fitting at another place once I'm sure it's not beginners pain.


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## PJ352 (Dec 5, 2007)

anthonylokrn said:


> So I finally did my longest ride at 12 miles without stopping and noticed some pains that weren't apparent while at the LBS.
> 
> First off, the bike is a Specialized Roubaix size 54CM, I'm 5'8.5 with a 31" inseam.
> 
> ...


I know you stated that you constantly change hand positions, but where are they positioned when you get the palm pain? (drops - in the hooks, hoods, tops, at the bends...). 

FWIW, from what you've offered, I don't think this is beginners pain. It's likely a fit issue and your tendancy to slide forward is causing the hand discomfort. What needs to be determined is if it's due to incorrect saddle position, reach issues or both.


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## anthonylokrn (Oct 7, 2010)

PJ352 said:


> I know you stated that you constantly change hand positions, but where are they positioned when you get the palm pain? (drops - in the hooks, hoods, tops, at the bends...).
> 
> FWIW, from what you've offered, I don't think this is beginners pain. It's likely a fit issue and your tendancy to slide forward is causing the hand discomfort. What needs to be determined is if it's due to incorrect saddle position, reach issues or both.


I'm not very comfortable right on the hoods, so I usually position my hand about an inch behind the hoods right where the drops connects.

While in the drops, my palms are a bit more comfortable than right on top of the hoods. But I can't comment too much since I was barely in the drops.


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## Erion929 (Jun 10, 2010)

I used to slide a little from the saddle, after researching a lot of info, I tried the suggestion of tipping the nose of the saddle up a hair. Problem solved, feels fine as it gets you on your sit bones better and helps get some pressure off your hands as you are leaning forward.

You can make sure you are using your core midsection muscles to keep balance instead of keeping all the pressure on your hands...

And like you stated, it's your "first long ride", so new discomforts are bound to pop up....gotta get some saddle time :idea: 

**


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## AndrwSwitch (May 28, 2009)

anthonylokrn said:


> I notice that I would tend to slide forward a bit on the saddle and end up not squarely on the sit bones. I find myself having to readjust and relieve saddle pressure about every mile.
> 
> Second, I'm getting palm pain (near the thumbs) and I'm constantly changing hand positions about every 5 minutes. I ride a Stumpjumper with Ergon GP1-S and have no hand pains at all.


Someone already suggested tipping your saddle up a little. It may also be too far back, so sliding it forward is something else to try. I don't go as far as to get out a level, but I think that that's a good starting point; it's not uncommon for people to ride with the saddle tipped a little in one direction or the other.

You can also tip up your handlebars more, if you feel like you're sliding down the ramps onto the hoods. If they're just too far away, try putting them higher or closer to you. If you can flip the stem up or have some spacers left, moving the bars up is easier; otherwise you'd need a shorter stem or one with more angle.

You might also talk to your shop about this. IMO, all that's really needed for a good fitting is someone with some experience and a trainer. Sometimes getting it right takes a few revisions.


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## Tommy Walker (Aug 14, 2009)

Any chance your LBS offers a more comprehensive fitting? Many times they will for an increased price and they will provide a computer print out.

I'm wondering what size is your stem; you should be more comfortable riding on the hoods and I'm guessing the pain is from applying more pressure on that part of your hand. It could be the saddle position on your not in a good riding position, causing a straighter arm, as opposed to bent.

Also were your sit bones measured? What type of saddle do you have?


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## PJ352 (Dec 5, 2007)

anthonylokrn said:


> I'm not very comfortable right on the hoods, so I usually position my hand about an inch behind the hoods right where the drops connects.
> 
> While in the drops, my palms are a bit more comfortable than right on top of the hoods. But I can't comment too much since I was barely in the drops.


I'll offer a couple of things you can check, then you can decide to make any needed adjustments or have a reputable/ experienced fitter do so.

First, check saddle position. Using a level or straight edge placed front to back atop the saddle, make sure it's level. If it's pointed down, level it. It it's level, tip the front up _slightly_. Depending on your findings (and assuming an adjustment was needed), you can stop at this point and get some saddle time in to determine if you've fixed (or minimized) sliding forward and the hand discomfort. 

If the problem is still present or no saddle tilt was necessary, you can adjust the saddle aft (rearward) slightly. You don't want to move the saddle forward, because that moves your weight forward, exacerbating the problem. The amount of initial adjustment should be about 5mm's. Once this is done, I suggest (again) getting some saddle time in to see if you're on track with fixing (what I'd suspect at this point is) a weight distribution issue. When you make the aft adjustment, also consider Andrwswitch's suggestion to tilt the bars up slightly. I think doing so will help level the area on the bar that you seem to prefer, so in conjunction with the saddle adjustment, hopefully this will help alleviate the discomfort.

Assuming fixes still need to be pursued, there are two choices at this point. If you feel your reach is comfortable but there's still discomfort, you can move the saddle back another 2-3mm's, but no more. The next step would be to look at a slightly shorter stem and/ or raising the bars some, but that (IMO) is getting ahead of things. I'd want this to be a slow enough process that there were some fairly clear indications that a 'next step' was necessary. Also, along the way you'd be building saddle time, thus becoming more accustomed to road riding. 

Hope this helps. Bike fit can be an involved process and sometimes fixes are counterintuitive, but what I've offered here has helped a number of riders. As stated earlier, if you're more comfortable working with a fitter, that's a perfectly fine alternative. Just make sure it's a reputable shop and the fitter is experienced.

One last thought. If you aren't already wearing them, consider good quality padded gloves. They serve a two fold purpose in that they quell road harshness as well as offering a level of protection.


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## anthonylokrn (Oct 7, 2010)

Thanks for all the suggestions!

My saddle was leveled when I checked it, so I tilted the nose up slightly; I also don't have any saddle soreness from yesterday.

My arms are slightly bent while on the hoods, but probably not enough to be comfortable yet. The stem is a 100MM with a +-16/8 shim; it is currently negatively flipped with a +16 rise, that's how the LBS left it at.

I will try to get some more miles in today and see if it helped any.

Thanks again!


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## PJ352 (Dec 5, 2007)

anthonylokrn said:


> Thanks for all the suggestions!
> 
> *My saddle was leveled when I checked it, so I tilted the nose up slightly; I also don't have any saddle soreness from yesterday.*
> 
> ...


IMO that's a good first step. Hope it helps.

BTW, the saddle adjustments aren't to cure any assumed soreness, they're to keep you back on your sitbones and not sliding forward.


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## PoorCyclist (Oct 14, 2010)

Thats strange, I don't like saddle tilted up, I can feel it pressing on my ____, I'm very sensitive about that, about level is all I can handle...
My fitter told me it should be distributed 1/3 pelvic (on the narrower part of the saddle), 1/3 each on the left and right seat bone.

It sounds similar when I tried bike with reach could a .little too long, have the LBS check it out again, you bought a nice bike I don't see why you couldn't bring back for a quick check. Ask things like do I need a shorter stem? Is how much do I bend my arms? They may try to sell you a fit service but worth a try.


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## PJ352 (Dec 5, 2007)

PoorCyclist said:


> Thats strange, I don't like saddle tilted up, I can feel it pressing on my ____, I'm very sensitive about that, about level is all I can handle...
> My fitter told me it should be distributed 1/3 pelvic (on the narrower part of the saddle), 1/3 each on the left and right seat bone.
> 
> It sounds similar when I tried bike with reach could a .little too long, have the LBS check it out again, you bought a nice bike I don't see why you couldn't bring back for a quick check. Ask things like do I need a shorter stem? Is how much do I bend my arms? They may try to sell you a fit service but worth a try.


The saddle tilt is _slight_ and the degree it's tolerated by the rider is somewhat dependent on pelvic angle which is, in turn, determined by reach and drop. Example, the greater the drop, the less upward tilt a rider can tolerate - for the reason given below. 

I don't agree with your fitter on the "1/3 theory". A riders sit bones are supposed to support rear weight. Soft tissue is forward of them and should not be compressed. 

Remember, the OP's fit issue is that he's sliding forward on the saddle _and_ has hand pain, so weight has to be moved rearward and kept there. The first step is to make saddle adjustments,_ then _(if necessary) look at making reach/ drop adjustments.


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## inthesticks (Oct 27, 2010)

When you mention your first ride of 12 miles and sounds like you came off a MTB, so it is a different ride all together. I went thru this last year myself, my hands were falling asleep and I kept moving around on the seat as it really hurt...a couple things, first your riding position is way different, your putting more weight on your hands now and not moving around like you do on your MTB, thus the hand and butt pain, you slidng fwd is also common at this stage since your used to sitting more upright before with a little less reach on the MTB.
You have to give it time to get used to riding that way, it is hard at first, I was excited my first time I went over 10 miles..now 10 miles is considered just a warm-up or a quick ride.
I found I had to play a little with seat height and angle, bar height a little but most of all just getting used to a totally different riding position was the hardest.... especially if you MTB had suspension!

R


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## AndrwSwitch (May 28, 2009)

^^^
Unless the rider in question has his mountain bike set up for shuttle service, all-mountain, dirt-jumping, etc., I mostly disagree with this.

Certainly I move around a lot less on my road bike than my mountain bike, although I would hardly consider it a static riding position. However, my leg extension is the same on all my bikes, and my riding position is actually quite similar. I measured the horizontal reaches a while ago and found that I have my mountain bike set up with the handlebar clamp about 30mm further from the seat post than my road bike, landing the grips about midway between the hoods and the flats. Drop is about the same. My teammates who do multiple disciplines typically have very similar positions on their different bikes too.

The point of all this is to illustrate that while the shapes of a lot of things on a road bike are different, it needs to fit the same person. If that person pedals all the time and climbs on his mountain bike rides, the riding position is going to be more similar than people who only do one or the other realize. I'd consider excessive weight on my hands on any of my bikes, assuming I'm riding at my typical effort level, unacceptable.


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## PJ352 (Dec 5, 2007)

AndrwSwitch said:


> I'd consider excessive weight on my hands on any of my bikes, assuming I'm riding at my typical effort level, unacceptable.


Exactly. If, after a couple of rides, the OP were complaining of a sore butt or maybe even minor soreness in the legs/ shoulders/ neck, I _might_ be inclined to attribute it to becoming accustomed to road riding. But sliding forward in the saddle and experiencing had pain are not to be expected, whether the person is a new or seasoned rider. 

Properly positioned, having correct f/r weight distribution, the rider should be able to raise himself from the drops to an upright position with relative ease. Weight is not to be borne by the arms/ hands.


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## anthonylokrn (Oct 7, 2010)

Well after a few more miles logged, I am now quite comfortable on the bike after dialing in a few adjustments after each ride.

Only problem I seem to have is lower back pain after 15 miles. I guess those muscles need to be stretched some more.

Thanks for all the help!


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## PJ352 (Dec 5, 2007)

anthonylokrn said:


> Well after a few more miles logged, I am now quite comfortable on the bike after dialing in a few adjustments after each ride.
> 
> *Only problem I seem to have is lower back pain after 15 miles.* I guess those muscles need to be stretched some more.
> 
> Thanks for all the help!


Glad things are improving for you. Regarding your lower back pain, while building core strength is always a plus, pain in that area can also result from excessive (for you) saddle to bar drop.

If you haven't already done so, consider raising the bars 1-2cm's (sometimes flipping the stem up will accomplish that) and try it for a few rides. Fit evolves, so as you build saddle time, become more flexible and are more accustomed to road riding, you may find that you'll want to slowly drop the bars. 

Here are some sources of info:
http://www.jimlangley.net/crank/bikefit.html
Specifically, #5.

http://sportsmedicine.about.com/od/abdominalcorestrength1/a/NewCore.htm


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## CaliforniaPI (Sep 25, 2005)

*Suggestion*

I know this post isn't timely but you may get a little something from it. I had the same problem as you, I found that my saddle wasn't as comfortable as it could be which meant that I was unconsciously lifting myself up, which put pressure on my hands. I tried a saddle that fit and...problem solved. Coincidentally, I have a 54cm Roubaix too, and the stock saddle killed me. I went with a Selle Italia SLK and it has been smooth sailing ever since. I now realize that I can put all my weight on my saddle (if I choose) without any discomfort. I couldn't do that before on the Avatar that came on the Roubaix.


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## patsdiner (Nov 15, 2005)

Looks like you got it worked out, great. I had the same problem and tried tilting the seat up, causing an injury you know were. My solution was an perfectly level seat and switching from a 120 stem to a 90. I was then able to hold the hoods without putting pressure in that area. As for lower back pain, try taking those hills in an easier gear. As I remember my newbie days, taking hills in the highest gear possible was a matter of pride. Its only as I've wised up, and the knees and back started barking, did I realize those gears were there for reason.


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## anthonylokrn (Oct 7, 2010)

patsdiner said:


> Looks like you got it worked out, great. I had the same problem and tried tilting the seat up, causing an injury you know were. My solution was an perfectly level seat and switching from a 120 stem to a 90. I was then able to hold the hoods without putting pressure in that area. As for lower back pain, try taking those hills in an easier gear. As I remember my newbie days, taking hills in the highest gear possible was a matter of pride. Its only as I've wised up, and the knees and back started barking, did I realize those gears were there for reason.


Yup no problem at all now; still making some small adjustments here and there just for comfort-wise.

Girlfriend doesn't ride as much so she still complains her butt bone being sore.


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## PJ352 (Dec 5, 2007)

patsdiner said:


> Looks like you got it worked out, great. *I had the same problem and tried tilting the seat up, causing an injury you know were*. My solution was an perfectly level seat and switching from a 120 stem to a 90. I was then able to hold the hoods without putting pressure in that area. As for lower back pain, try taking those hills in an easier gear. As I remember my newbie days, taking hills in the highest gear possible was a matter of pride. Its only as I've wised up, and the knees and back started barking, did I realize those gears were there for reason.


Because there's a number of variables to a cyclists fit, and despite there being a number of best practices, almost nothing works universally. The saddle tilt is _slight_, so you may have tilted a bit too much, but many riders do prefer a level saddle. Also, if you went from a 120mm stem to a 90, I suspect there were other factors causing your discomfort.

Excellent point about noobs mashing up hills, not watching their cadence. Gotta be kind to the knees.


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