# Downhill nerves



## wils70 (Sep 10, 2009)

Hi all,

I'm a complete newbie to road bikes - having owned one for all of about 4 weeks. Before that, my only adult biking (limited) experience had been on a MTB, and even that was +5 years ago.

So I decided to find a road bike that fits, which - being a 5'2" woman - wasn't particularly easy. Finally I met my XS Fuji Finest 1.0. It fits well (although we did replace the stock stem with a slightly shorter one), is really responsive, and I like it very much - granted it's more of an advanced cycle than I am cyclist but...  

Living in San Francisco, we have a LOT of hills. Actually a lot of BIG hills. The carefully selected climbs I ride (10-20%) are really tough on me, but I'm plugging away. The thing that scares me the most though is the downhill out of the area I live. The bike, if allowed, picks up serious speed, and quite frankly I'm worried about slipping/falling and knocking my teeth out, amongst other things. 

Wondering if any more experienced riders have a) tips for riding safely/in control downhill and b) tips for building downhill confidence (other than just keeping on riding down them)?

Thanks!


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## Hank Stamper (Sep 9, 2009)

There's a fine line between lacking confidence and being smart. I'd just continue to trust yourself and not be in a rush to go down hills faster. That will come....and if it doesn't it's probably because you know your limits.


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## JCavilia (Sep 12, 2005)

It's good to be cautious as you acquire skill, but there are some tips and techniques that help. Shifting your center of mass down and back increases stability, and reduces that scary feeling that braking hard may tip you over the front. A solid grip on the bars, with good brake lever access, also feels more secure. 

Putting those together, my preferred approach on steep downhills is hands in the drops, with 2 fingers on the brake levers, upper body quite low -- almost horizontal -- with arms extended not quite straight out, cranks horizontal so you are standing up just a little (to help absorb bumps), and your bottom slid back, almost off the back of the saddle. You can grip the nose of the saddle with your thighs (and even the top tube with your knees) to stabilize the bike if it's bumpy.

Try that. It should help you go fast or slow, and slow quickly when you need to. You definitely want to keep speed under control in the City. Which hills do you go down leaving your neighborhood?

As for confidence, that takes practice. Knowing how to maintain your bike helps, too. When I coast down a hill at 45 mph, I know I fastened the front QR properly, inspected the wheels and tires, and checked the headset adjustment and brake alignment. I wouldn't rely on somebody else's work in that situation.


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## SleepyNinja (Mar 6, 2008)

Watch out for trolley tracks


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## Sriajuda (Jan 7, 2009)

JCavilia, sound advice. I'd emphasize braking skills - most beginners (and an astounding number of experienced riders alike!) don't know how to brake properly.

Push your weight back as far as possible, at the same time lowering your upper body. Keep a solid grip on the handlebars. Brake hard using *only* the front brake. Practice....


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## wils70 (Sep 10, 2009)

I live in Pacific Heights, unfortunately pretty close to the top of Divisadero should you be familiar. It's awfully steep. Right now, as I'm just beginning, I only ride down and up in the Presidio as the roads are somewhat quieter - but still awfully steep in places, which make for a hair rising descent (for me), and a heart thundering ride home.


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## andulong (Nov 23, 2006)

And watch for cars that don't realize just how fast you are coming...they have a tendency to pull out in front of you!!!


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## dgasper (Sep 1, 2007)

I was hit by a car last summer, and now I am a much more careful rider. (I avoid left turns now!)

Thinking about what can go wrong traveling at a high speed down a hill with intersections and cars has made me slow down. I just don't want to risk my life for a momentary thrill. On a bike you have the illusion of control, but you really just can't stop on a dime like you can with a car.


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## JCavilia (Sep 12, 2005)

dgasper said:


> I was hit by a car last summer, and now I am a much more careful rider. (I avoid left turns now!)
> 
> Thinking about what can go wrong traveling at a high speed down a hill with intersections and cars has made me slow down. I just don't want to risk my life for a momentary thrill. On a bike you have the illusion of control, but you really just can't stop on a dime like you can with a car.


Well, you really can't stop on a dime in a car, either. And if you learn braking technique, you can stop as short on a bike as you can in a car. Certainly a car affords some protection, but a good cyclist has more than an "illusion" of control. 

But I agree you shouldn't go any faster than you're comfortable with. 

How do you avoid left turns? Make 3 rights?

Wils, work on the braking and control techniques and you'll get better. You should be able to go as slowly as you need to to feel in control, no matter how steep the hill.

I used to enjoy riding in the Presidio when I lived in SF. Nice views, too


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## alaris (Nov 8, 2008)

One thing I would suggest: Make sure you survey your roads carefully before you decide to go full speed. I like to ride several times on a new road until I can fully understand any hazards. Small holes in the road can be a danger if you hit at high speed. For example, there is a downhill road close to where I live that I was unfamiliar with. On one of the first rides, I happen to hit a small hole just right and it caused a puncture. Nedless to say, if I had been at speed it would not have been pretty.


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## SROC3 (Jul 20, 2009)

One thing I will add to the advice above is DO NOT use your front brake while in a downhill turn. If you nail an irregularity or a bump in the road and your front tire pitches off the ground and locks up, your landing (this all takes a blink) will not be pretty. BEFORE you enter the turn, use the front and back brakes to regulate a good speed of entry that you know you will comfortable with throughout the turn. Make sure this brake modulation occurs when you are as straight as possible on your decent and in between turns.

As Alaris said above, it really is a good idea to drive around the ride path you will be taking to note any road hazards. I live near where i can have direct access to PCH and Malibu hill climbs. Before I go on a ride to a canyon road I drive it in my car to get a good feel for the path ahead.


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## il sogno (Jul 15, 2002)

Don't look down at the area in front of your tires. Instead keep your eyes focused at least 40' - 50' down the road.


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## ktuck (Jul 3, 2008)

wils70 said:


> ... The thing that scares me the most though ...


There's "This is Fun!" scared and there's "Sh*t, This is Dangerous!" scared. You're the only one who can decide if the rush is worth the risk. There's nothing more pathetic than the "good sport" who seriously injures themselves while doing something they never really wanted to do.

Don't under-estimate the potential for accidents on hills. (Even steep uphills - a friend of mine once lost his balance while climbing a canyon road and fell into the middle of the lane, just in time to have a car go whizzing past his head.)

Enjoy your new bike but also be aware that it doesn't offer much more protection than a pair of really fast roller skates. Hard surfaces and cars make road cycling a poor choice for adrenalin junkies.


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## JCavilia (Sep 12, 2005)

*Terminology note*



SleepyNinja said:


> Watch out for trolley tracks


Since the OP is apparently too polite to correct you, I'll point out that the vehicles that run on tracks in SF are cable cars and street cars, and they're aren't any in the areas she described. The term "trolley" refers to electric busses that draw power from overhead wires. A denizen of The City would never refer to a cable car as a trolley.

It's been over 20 years since I lived in SF. I miss the Muni. It's a great system.


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## hafjell (Jun 4, 2008)

Brake from the drops on the handlebars. Much more stable, powerful braking and might/should help you into a better/lower position.


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## stoked (Aug 6, 2004)

If you have a mountain bike learn your DH skills in a cross-country single track. If you fall it is safer than crashing in front of a car. Try to brake mostly with front brakes and use rear for balance only. Be in an attack position centered on frame, butt off saddle, elbows bent and low to the frame. Keep contact w/saddle with your legs( knees bent)

Few years back I busted a spoke and bent my rear wheel on a very technical XC trail. My bike had v-brakes and I had to decommision rear brake completely in order for wheel to turn. I rode 4 miles of rocky single track using front brake only and had a blast.


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## SilasCL (Jun 14, 2004)

Some of the hills in your neighborhood are painfully steep and should be avoided. Part of riding in SF is knowing your way around the steepest streets as even an expert would find them uncomfortable to ride. 

Practice on some of the milder descents in the Presidio, like Lincoln Blvd. out towards Seacliff, and Arguello down to Moraga. When you're riding a bit further, head over the GG Bridge and go up to Headlands, turn around and do the descent back to the bridge. The descent into Sausalito is fun too, wide open and pretty fast.


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## Mr. Versatile (Nov 24, 2005)

For me it depends on where I am and how well I know the road. If I'm in a urban area I'm going to take it fairly slow. There are just too many obstacles and potential dangers to risk at high speeds. Out in the country with no traffic, on smooth roads that I'm at least passingly familiar with I'll let it roll. I'm comfortable up to around 45 mph or so. Faster than that and that little "what if" voice in my head starts screaming at me.


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## moostapha (Oct 1, 2009)

When trying to stop, I use only the front brake; I sometimes bleed speed with the rear brake very lightly, mostly in pace lines and groups. I don't know why, but the group I rode with today (I was the new guy) went down hills really slow. It's fair, I went up them slow. 

It took me a bit to just not brake going down hill, but we don't have hills like SF where I live. After someone convinced me to hit a speed bump at the bottom of a hill flat out (posting and perpendicular) and nothing bad happened, it got easier. Same with curving descents at 35ish. 

Bikes are surprisingly stable when they're going fast. 

Keep in mind that unless you have really light wheels (and then only less so) the wheels act as gyroscopes, which don't like to change orientations quickly.


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## SleepyNinja (Mar 6, 2008)

JCavilia said:


> Since the OP is apparently too polite to correct you, I'll point out that the vehicles that run on tracks in SF are cable cars and street cars, and they're aren't any in the areas she described. The term "trolley" refers to electric busses that draw power from overhead wires. A denizen of The City would never refer to a cable car as a trolley.
> 
> It's been over 20 years since I lived in SF. I miss the Muni. It's a great system.


Oops thank for the correction.


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