# Wiggins vs. Contador?



## velojon (Mar 8, 2006)

If Contador had ridden the TDF this year, who would have won? Contador the better climber, Wiggins maybe an ITT edge plus a stronger team, as well as the Wiggo-friendly route this year, it might have been close. For the sake of discussion, let's assume Wiggins maintains his current form through week 3 and wins the GC, and that Contador returns to his best form regardless of the all various doping assumptions.


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## foto (Feb 7, 2005)

Contador!


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## AdamM (Jul 9, 2008)

I seem to recall other than that poor ITT performance in 2010, Contador has been significantly faster than Wiggins in ITT's. I think we saw with Froome today that Wiggins has a very time responding to really fast accelerations. It's a boring tour because other than Froome, every other contender is a version of a diesel type climber. I think Froome sent a clear message today that if allowed to ride his own race he could pretty easily put time into Wiggins on about any climb. Contador is a lot tougher rider than Froome, imo.


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## velojon (Mar 8, 2006)

I can't really quantify it, because the normal Cancellara/Tony Martin benchmark may have been weaker this time, but it seems that Wiggin has upped his game in the ITTs so I don't think we have a good basis for a AC/BW ITT comparison. Maybe the better question is Wiggins vs. Froome as you said. I also wonder about Froome's contract tenure with Sky, because the thought of AC vs. Froome vs. Wiggins backed by three good teams might actually make a race.


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## superjesus (Jul 26, 2010)

I still want to see Froome and Wiggo fight for yellow, a la Astana-era Contador and Lance. Let the better rider win.


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## roddjbrown (Jan 19, 2012)

I think it might be unlikely we'll see Wiggins in TdF contention again.

When you look at it's a TT heavy course, Evans is older, no AC, RSNT in confusion... It couldn't be more set up for him.

I really am looking forward to Nibali/Contador/Froome battles in the future


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## velojon (Mar 8, 2006)

Probably right, although I'm not convinced that Nibali is up to the level of the other two yet. He would have to improve his TT a little, and I can't see him being able to follow the quick accelerations of AC or Froome in the big hills; he's more of a chugger a la Wiggins.


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## AdamM (Jul 9, 2008)

Even with an upped game for Wiggins I don't assume Contador would lose any time to him. Contador is usually excellent in time trails. 

I think looking forward you can't count out Andy Schleck either in a typical tour with a single ITT. He's an explosive climber like Contador and would pressure Wiggins in a way that only Froome can do this year. The way to crack Wiggins is with repeated hard accelerations. That's Contador's and Andy Schleck's strongest game. After seeing the route this year I would anticipate a much more climbers focused tour for 2013.


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## roddjbrown (Jan 19, 2012)

velojon said:


> Probably right, although I'm not convinced that Nibali is up to the level of the other two yet. He would have to improve his TT a little, and I can't see him being able to follow the quick accelerations of AC or Froome in the big hills; he's more of a chugger a la Wiggins.


Fair point although he showed a bit of quick acceleration twice today.

Tejay looked a much better climber than I previously thought as well today and he can TT. Some exciting battles ahead.


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## MattSoutherden (Jun 24, 2009)

velojon said:


> If Contador had ridden the TDF this year, who would have won?


Which Contador? The one who 'won' the Giro last year at a canter. Or the Contador who rode the Tour? Maybe the Contador who cracked in Paris-Nice? Or how about the Contador who won the Tour in 2009?

The point is, you just don't know. If Cadel didn't ride you could hypothesise that he would win in the same way he did last year. Maybe he still will.

Anything can happen in the Tour (ask Wiggins how it went in 2011). There are no certainties for a one day race, let alone 3 weeks of Tour stages.


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## tricycletalent (Apr 2, 2005)

Throw the constant uncertainty of doping into the mix, and you have your unpredictability.


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## superg (May 9, 2010)

tricycletalent said:


> Throw the constant uncertainty of doping into the mix, and you have your unpredictability.


What's uncertain about it ? Just how long before it's exposed.


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## Len J (Jan 28, 2004)

Contador at his best vs wiggins at his best...........contador by minutes IMO. Better climber, very good tt'er. 

It sure would be fun to watch. 

Len


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## ohvrolla (Aug 2, 2009)

I'd give the edge to Contador by a country mile. If you look at most attacks it's nothing more than gaining a little bit of time during the initial attack, then riding the same tempo as the peloton only to be picked up later. Contador would keep kicking and keep gaining time.


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## yurl (Mar 31, 2010)

Contador would still beat Wiggins comfortably. Contador vs Froome would be a closer more entertaining battle


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## Deeyetoo (Jun 19, 2012)

Contador would win... but Wiggo would get the nod later on after Contador's meat comes back tainted yet again


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## Deeyetoo (Jun 19, 2012)

superjesus said:


> I still want to see Froome and Wiggo fight for yellow, a la Astana-era Contador and Lance. Let the better rider win.


Contador vs Lance was lame.

Id rather see Froome and Wiggins go at it like Lemond and Hinault


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## velojon (Mar 8, 2006)

I know Contador is a better overall GC rider than Wiggins - the question was who would win THIS YEAR's TDF route with both guys at their best without any doping noise that belongs in another forum? Next year is a totally different issue, and with a more traditional route I hope we see a ding-dong shootout between Contador, Schleck, Froome, Nibali, Rolland and maybe a few surprise guests.


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## eplanajr (May 11, 2009)

AdamM said:


> I seem to recall other than that poor ITT performance in 2010, Contador has been significantly faster than Wiggins in ITT's. I think we saw with Froome today that Wiggins has a very time responding to really fast accelerations. It's a boring tour because other than Froome, every other contender is a version of a diesel type climber. I think Froome sent a clear message today that if allowed to ride his own race he could pretty easily put time into Wiggins on about any climb. Contador is a lot tougher rider than Froome, imo.


ding!


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## Cinelli 82220 (Dec 2, 2010)

This is Wiggins' Tour, but I would not be surprised if Froome is the GC man next year if management decide the course doesn't suit Wiggins.
Sky also have some young riders that may develop into really good GC riders as well, Richie Porte, Rigoberto Uran, and Segio Henao. They have a wealth of talent.


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## zphogan (Jan 27, 2007)

yurl said:


> Contador would still beat Wiggins comfortably. Contador vs Froome would be a closer more entertaining battle


Wonder if Froome might ride the Vuelta after the TDF?? That would spice things up a bit.


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## sir duke (Mar 24, 2006)

MattSoutherden said:


> Which Contador? The one who 'won' the Giro last year at a canter. Or the Contador who rode the Tour? Maybe the Contador who cracked in Paris-Nice? Or how about the Contador who won the Tour in 2009?
> 
> The point is, you just don't know. If Cadel didn't ride you could hypothesise that he would win in the same way he did last year. Maybe he still will.
> 
> Anything can happen in the Tour (ask Wiggins how it went in 2011). There are no certainties for a one day race, let alone 3 weeks of Tour stages.


Excellent points, which is what makes these 'what if' questions pointless. What if Contador hadn't eaten that steak? :idea:


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## Dan Gerous (Mar 28, 2005)

I think the race would be a lot different if Contador was there, it could have completely changed the dynamics and put Wiggo off the podium has he can't react well to the type of racing Contador would have imposed. Contador would have attacked mercilessly, Wiggins can't deal with those attacks... but maybe Froome would have gone with Contador? It would end with Contador winning, Froome in second, Nibali third.


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## Max09 (May 3, 2011)

Dan Gerous said:


> I think the race would be a lot different if Contador was there, it could have completely changed the dynamics and put Wiggo off the podium has he can't react well to the type of racing Contador would have imposed. Contador would have attacked mercilessly, Wiggins can't deal with those attacks... but maybe Froome would have gone with Contador? It would end with Contador winning, Froome in second, Nibali third.


Plus 1, Good post Dan...


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## joep721 (May 4, 2009)

I can't believe I'm saying this - I would love to see Contador in the TdF taking on Wiggins. I think he would be better. An attacker versus "let's see how long it takes for paint to dry!"

OT - This may have been talked about so I apologize if this has already been talked about. People have been talking about all of the wrecks and combined with the extra teams and the size of the peleton. I was wondering - if the teams could only bring 7 riders to the tour - how would someone like Wiggins and Sky fair? Right now, they have Wiggins with 7 supporters and Cav riding solo (most of the time). Cut their team by 2 and what type of stress would that put on the yellow jersey? I think they would be under more stress from attacks. Plus I think this could help riders who are strong in the mountains but aren't TT specialists. Just thinking out loud.


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## gusmahler (Apr 7, 2012)

Correction: Cav rides with Eisel. Wiggins has 5 supporters because one of them broke their leg. I would guess that, if teams were limited to 7, Cav probably wouldn't have been hired and you'd have the exact same situation we have now.


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## albert owen (Jul 7, 2008)

Contador is in a different league to Wiggins. 
This particular TdF is a battle between second raters (Wiggins, Froome), the "golden oldie" nearly men (Menchov, Schleck) of the past few Tours and a tired, under motivated Evans If Alberto does not get back to his glorious best, we'll be seeing a sequence of less than stellar one time winners. 
If he does get back to his best then he'll dominate for a while yet.


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## BacDoc (Aug 1, 2011)

If I had the money I would recruit the riders mentioned in this post - as domestiques for the real champion, Jens V!


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## c_h_i_n_a_m_a_n (Mar 3, 2012)

Maybe we'll know next year ...


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## 55x11 (Apr 24, 2006)

MattSoutherden said:


> Which Contador? The one who 'won' the Giro last year at a canter. Or the Contador who rode the Tour? Maybe the Contador who cracked in Paris-Nice? Or how about the Contador who won the Tour in 2009?
> 
> The point is, you just don't know. If Cadel didn't ride you could hypothesise that he would win in the same way he did last year. Maybe he still will.
> 
> Anything can happen in the Tour (ask Wiggins how it went in 2011). There are no certainties for a one day race, let alone 3 weeks of Tour stages.


exactly. It's like asking if Wiggins would win against Valverde, Basso or Scarponi. He is killing them when they are v.2012, but what about Basso back from when he was winning Giro stages by 5 minute margins? I would go with old-timey Basso FTW.


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## danielc (Oct 24, 2002)

Contador hands down...assuming he can return to racing without doping and hold his form. Even if Wiggins puts time on him in ITTs, Conti can surely make up mass time on the climbs...I rarely see WIggo get out of the saddle on climbs..he's like Ullrich...diesel engine.


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## davidka (Dec 12, 2001)

Contador had an incredible run of stage race wins (everything he entered for quite a while). Wiggins matched that this year, albeit a shorter run (so far). 

In today's field, Wiggins would need to be toying with his opposition to make Contador vs. Wiggins an interesting question. He's doing great but it doesn't yet look easy.


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## gordy748 (Feb 11, 2007)

55x11 said:


> exactly. It's like asking if Wiggins would win against Valverde, Basso or Scarponi. He is killing them when they are v.2012, but what about Basso back from when he was winning Giro stages by 5 minute margins? I would go with old-timey Basso FTW.


Alas, the old Basso was doped up to the eyeballs.


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## Ridin'Sorra (Sep 7, 2004)

davidka said:


> Contador had an incredible run of stage race wins (everything he entered for quite a while). Wiggins matched that this year, albeit a shorter run (so far).
> 
> In today's field, Wiggins would need to be toying with his opposition to make Contador vs. Wiggins an interesting question. He's doing great but it doesn't yet look easy.


Yup... coincidentally, he's winning on the year Contador is out.

Wiggins doesn't stand a chance against Contador, IMHO. Even with two or three teams helping. Contador has demonstrated he can dominate the field even with HIS team against him.

I still think he raced he 2011 Giro and Tour clean, being under scrutiny and all that. We saw the damage he can do in a race in the Giro and saw how he could not recover to take on the Tour.


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## il sogno (Jul 15, 2002)

Contador. 

Contador vs. Froome would be much more interesting.


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## FlandersFields (Jul 16, 2010)

yurl said:


> Contador would still beat Wiggins comfortably. Contador vs Froome would be a closer more entertaining battle


In 'modern' cycling, Contador would be nowhere near Wiggins.


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## Tribish (Jul 14, 2012)

Contador will be a different rider when he is back from his ban. You can already see he was some way off his 2009 best last year, probably gave up taking on the oil and ate steak instead.


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## Ventruck (Mar 9, 2009)

I can't tell if some of the remarks about Contador's lesser form are serious or not. In 2010 he was riding sick. In 2011 his oh-so-mediocre 5th place Tour ride came after wiping himself out at what was considered the hardest Giro - both of which had to be done clean unless he was a ninja. Let's not forget he still won a TT in the Giro, and he beat out Cancellara in the 2009 TdF in a TT stage where he showed up late/no warm up. 

AC had a team against him in 2009, and then lackluster squads afterwards. Good God Wiggins would get murdered. Only a moron casual fan would say otherwise.


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## clonechemist (Sep 8, 2006)

Tribish said:


> You can already see he was some way off his 2009 best last year, probably gave up taking on the oil and ate steak instead.


I disagree - he won the Giro by 6 minutes!!


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## yurl (Mar 31, 2010)

FlandersFields said:


> In 'modern' cycling, Contador would be nowhere near Wiggins.


I'm not sure what 'modern' cycling means. do you mean Contador would be miles/minutes ahead? 
Contador has been the most dominant grand tour cyclist over the last 5 years. He's proven he can destroy a peleton singlehandedly without the need for a strong team. its always entertaining to watch despite his tainted career.


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## roddjbrown (Jan 19, 2012)

I'm a fan of Sky (not so much Wiggins) but definitely AC. No one has unsettled Wiggins in this tour and he's raced it to a clear plan - I do wonder if he spends more time looking at the road or his cadence and wattage. We know he's fragile, and despite his team I think a Contador would put him in a position where he couldn't control the race.


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## FlandersFields (Jul 16, 2010)

clonechemist said:


> I disagree - he won the Giro by 6 minutes!!


Have you seen the Giro field that year?


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## FlandersFields (Jul 16, 2010)

Ventruck said:


> I can't tell if some of the remarks about Contador's lesser form are serious or not. In 2010 he was riding sick. In 2011 his oh-so-mediocre 5th place Tour ride came after wiping himself out at what was considered the hardest Giro - both of which had to be done clean unless he was a ninja. Let's not forget he still won a TT in the Giro, and he beat out Cancellara in the 2009 TdF in a TT stage where he showed up late/no warm up.
> 
> AC had a team against him in 2009, and then lackluster squads afterwards. Good God Wiggins would get murdered. Only a moron casual fan would say otherwise.



Let me be the moron casual fan. Contador won't be the Contador we've seen in the past. As your such a hardcore fan you might have noticed that this TdF cycling has changed. And Contador will be a changed rider as well. 

He's a better climber than Wiggins, but the days of people taking 5 minutes (each climb) on their direct rivals on climbs are over. Luckily. Wiggins will win like Indurain did. Ans since you're such an expert, you knew that their were awesome climbers in the INdurain era as well. 

'


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## Ridin'Sorra (Sep 7, 2004)

FlandersFields said:


> Have you seen the Giro field that year?


Yeah, not much competition but at least Nibali was there.

Though, we could say the same about this tour... Contador not in, one Schleck out, the other having a horrible season, an aging Cadel, a route suited for TT's, etc.

Not making Wiggins less, actually I'm liking him more everyday and he's not ONLY a Grand Tour racer... just that Contador is a better stage racer.


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## MG537 (Jul 25, 2006)

FlandersFields said:


> Let me be the moron casual fan. Contador won't be the Contador we've seen in the past. As your such a hardcore fan you might have noticed that *this TdF cycling has changed*. And Contador will be a changed rider as well.
> 
> He's a better climber than Wiggins, but the days of people taking 5 minutes (each climb) on their direct rivals on climbs are over. Luckily. *Wiggins will win like Indurain did*. Ans since you're such an expert, you knew that their were awesome climbers in the INdurain era as well.
> 
> '


I just boldfaced a couple of contradictory statements of yours.
We pretty much know what was happening during the Indurain years.


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## ROGER79 (Dec 29, 2005)

*Truth is...*

We'll NEVER know, next question......


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## LostViking (Jul 18, 2008)

Hard to argue against Wiggo and Team Sky right now as we watch them lay down the law everyday, but I think Alberto would chop chunks of time off of Wiggo if it were head-to-head mano-a-mano on the mountains...almost more interesting to ask about Conti vs Froome?

Sky are doing a great job for Wiggo, including Cav. But put a simular team around Conti and I think the outcome would clearly go in Conti's favor. In fact, Conti might be able to free-lance most of it even with a so-so team around him.
In fact, he has demonstrated that he can do it even with his team (Astana) trying to undermine him.. He's just that good "regardless of the all various doping assumptions" to the contrary.


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## quadrat (Aug 26, 2011)

MattSoutherden said:


> Which Contador? The one who 'won' the Giro last year at a canter. Or the Contador who rode the Tour? Maybe the Contador who cracked in Paris-Nice? Or how about the Contador who won the Tour in 2009?
> 
> The point is, you just don't know. If Cadel didn't ride you could hypothesise that he would win in the same way he did last year. Maybe he still will.
> 
> Anything can happen in the Tour (ask Wiggins how it went in 2011). There are no certainties for a one day race, let alone 3 weeks of Tour stages.


The one of the Tour. With the Giro in his legs, injuries, no team support, and who would attack nonetheless and take the peloton apart.


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## davidka (Dec 12, 2001)

FlandersFields said:


> He's a better climber than Wiggins, but the days of people taking 5 minutes (each climb) on their direct rivals on climbs are over. Luckily. Wiggins will win like Indurain did. Ans since you're such an expert, you knew that their were awesome climbers in the INdurain era as well.
> 
> '


This has pretty much never happened (5 minutes, 1 climb) in a stage where everyone was healthy. There have always been awesome climbers, including the awesome climbers that Contador dropped for 30seconds to 1 minute. He has also won TT's over the best TTer's (Cancellara). Contador is on another level. I'd bet my bike that this doesn't happen when Wiggins finally faces Contador (who has also beaten Wiggins in almost every TT they've ever contested).


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## NTA (Apr 4, 2010)

Contador !!!


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## gusmahler (Apr 7, 2012)

People are talking about Contador here like he's an all-time great. How, IYO, does he rank against the other greats (Lance, Hinault, Indurain, Eddy). Ignoring the stuff that belongs in the last forum, of course.


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## davidka (Dec 12, 2001)

Tough comparison to make since things were so different in the day of Hinault and Merckx. Everyone raced to win, all year long. I think Contador would've been able to beat Indurain because of his great TT skills for a climber but I do not think he or anyone else could've beaten Armstrong at his best. There was some overlap there, my favorite example being Contador inheriting the TdF from the outgoing Michael Rassmussen who, A. Had 2+ minutes on him and B. could never stay within 7-10 minutes of Lance.


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## quadrat (Aug 26, 2011)

Tainted career? They found 1 picogram of Glenbuterol per ml in his blood, 1/400 of the dose that would have an effect. For bodybuilders. Wrong drug, tiny dose. It doesn't make sense.

If Armstrong is stripped of his TDF wins, Jan Ullrich will be the new record holder, 5 wins. The whole drug-control thing is becoming ridiculous.


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