# ToC coverage sucks.



## robdamanii (Feb 13, 2006)

Really...camera work is horrible, Phil and Paul sound like they just toddled out of a rest home, and what the hell happened that they're filtering out the road noise feed from the motos?


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## steveo5200 (Oct 30, 2011)

Ya it really does suck ,must be a low budget


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## frankdatank1337 (Jul 25, 2010)

Yeah, today was horrible coverage. Even during the intro they had the sound all mixed up. Im hoping they fix it. or at least make the evening 1 hour recaps more polished.


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## Erion929 (Jun 10, 2010)

I couldn't find it today.....the website says NBC Sports, but I didn't see any listing on my tv menus . I'm in Orange County, anybody know what station in LA/OC?

EDIT: Found it.....Channel 1334, obscure NBC Sports channel, on Cox Cable in South OC.....I think it's the old Versus channel, or retitled?


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## frankdatank1337 (Jul 25, 2010)

Yeah, *NBC Sports* is the new name for *Versus*.


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## stevesbike (Jun 3, 2002)

mtrider05 said:


> The online tour tracker is way better.


I'll try that tomorrow - going to a commercial (for the billionth time) with about 5k to go was stupid. Someone should tell Phil it's not golf - you don't have to talk in hushed tones. And could someone tell the cameraman to focus on the riders on the climbs, not the spectators. The only upside is that SAAB is bankrupt so no more born from jets commercials!


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## mtrider05 (Aug 8, 2009)

The online tour tracker is way better.


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## kbiker3111 (Nov 7, 2006)

Phil yelled Tom Boonen's name about a half dozen times in the final K and Boonen was off the back of the group.


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## allison (Apr 19, 2006)

robdamanii said:


> What the hell happened that they're filtering out the road noise feed from the motos?


That's the one thing that bothered me!


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## ti-triodes (Aug 14, 2006)

Agreed about the tour tracker. Great not watching the commercials and all the other crap on the NBCSN. It was cool watching the video feed while following the map, although there were occasional glitches. Sometimes the map showed the breakaway following the peloton! Phil did sound lIke he was in a stupor at times.


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## PaxRomana (Jan 16, 2012)

Tour Tracker was excellent. Great HD picture.


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## foofighter (Dec 19, 2008)

concur w/ the tour tracker. I have it on the ipad and quality is top notch. 

It's funny how quickly we get spoiled when years ago, we clamored for cycling coverage now we have AToC live coverage, tour tracker apps for iOS, Android, web and we whine about it. The commercials are a necessary evil to get all these things so I wont look the gift horse in the mouth.


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## dougclaysmith (Oct 17, 2009)

Much better today. Had the road noise today. Yeah without that it's like watching the tour of Oman. I'll take whatever cycling is on tv, no matter how bad, at least it's on.


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## locustfist (Feb 21, 2009)

robdamanii said:


> Really...camera work is horrible, Phil and Paul sound like they just toddled out of a rest home, and what the hell happened that they're filtering out the road noise feed from the motos?


If you watch on the Tour Tracker you'll notice they never break for commercial. *Paul and Phil are actually calling two broadcasts at the same time*. When it sounds as if they are fumbling word it's because one of them is on another mic signing off to commercial while the other is flying solo for a few seconds. Same when they sign back on after the TV break.

If you have both on you can hear the difference. They're working their butts off and just getting into form for the season.


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## phade2 (Feb 22, 2010)

I watched it on the ipad app too....I hope there's an app for the TDF in the works just like this one.


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## Joe the biker (Mar 4, 2009)

I had to replay it about 10 times but on the day 1 introduction Phil said "In seven years this race has gone from not just the biggest race in the United States but the greatest in the world". He must have gotten some medicinal marijuana from someone.


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## burgrat (Nov 18, 2005)

Joe the biker said:


> I had to replay it about 10 times but on the day 1 introduction Phil said "In seven years this race has gone from not just the biggest race in the United States but the greatest in the world". He must have gotten some medicinal marijuana from someone.


I heard that too! That's straight up Alzheimer's kicking in. Phil and Paul lost it years ago.


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## tober1 (Feb 6, 2009)

It's so frustrating without the road noise! I noticed it right away and couldn't stop paying attention to it. It's as if I hear too much voice. I picture the two of them sitting in their little 'studio'. 
That said, the Tour Tracker is pretty great. Not much has changed in 3 years though


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## Poppadaddio (Apr 15, 2007)

It is almost unwatchable. 
Adding insult to injury was having to wait through ten minutes of MORONIC commentary by NBC's "experts" before the ATOC started.


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## Mapei (Feb 3, 2004)

I admit Phil and Paul have been better, but I have to say that my new Directv Hi-def signal gives me truly spectacular images. The Sonoma Coast was crazy beautiful. When it comes to the audio, I find that bicycle commentators talk far too much anyway. Apart from the final five kilometers or so, I'm just as happy watching it with the sound off. I just don't care who it is that launches the momentary attack.


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## tihsepa (Nov 27, 2008)

Imagine the whining if it wasnt on at all.

I cant even get the Giro on comcrack here in Chicago. I am glad for the TOC on TV. I dont really need the fake heckapolotter sound to make it good.

Back to your regurarly scheduled complaints.


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## kbwh (May 28, 2010)

I got to see stage 2 on Norwegian Eurosport last night. No commercial breaks, which was nice. The commentary was uninformed at best, but what the heck.
Lovely scenery, fun descents to watch too. The wide roads make it easier to get good motorbike side shots of the riders.


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## Lick Skillet (Aug 21, 2011)

better than the Giro coverage, at least i can see who is who


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## robdamanii (Feb 13, 2006)

Lick Skillet said:


> better than the Giro coverage, at least i can see who is who


Screw Universal. Steephill is where it's at. Harmon and Kelly are the kings.


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## jspharmd (May 24, 2006)

The thing that really killed me about the coverage was the odd camera shots. I'm not sure why I want to see a yellow plane flying in the sky when they are supposed to be showing a bike race. I can get some of the landscape beauty (still too much for my taste), but when you are shooting from the ground into the air, I don't know what you are thinking.

I also wondered if Phil and Paul were getting different images at times, because they certainly didn't match up wit the images I was watching.


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## hawker12 (Oct 19, 2003)

Yes, I really appreciate being able to see the race at all. 

Yes, I have always been a fan of Phil and Paul.

However... some of their comments have been plain goofy and off track so far. If it's because they are commenting for two different broadcasts at the same time then they need to make some changes for the sake of their own credibility. The audio of the race is horrible and the studio audio is equally as bad. Maybe they should put Bobbke in the booth instead of doing those fairly lame interviews. So far the feel and flavor of the broadcast has been amateurish at best. But at least we haven't had the end of race cut off by the hockey game......yet.


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## jswilson64 (May 20, 2008)

Hey, yesterday they cut the hockey game off for the race!


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## hawker12 (Oct 19, 2003)

Now that's progress!!


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## coop (Jun 8, 2008)

"Insert race name" coverage sucks! Those damn Euros on the Belgian and Italian online feeds only speak their native tongue! Eurosport is ad central and reminds me why the 1770's were the best!


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## 55x11 (Apr 24, 2006)

tihsepa said:


> Imagine the whining if it wasnt on at all.
> 
> I cant even get the Giro on comcrack here in Chicago. I am glad for the TOC on TV. I dont really need the fake heckapolotter sound to make it good.
> 
> Back to your regurarly scheduled complaints.


I sometimes wonder if there will be any coverage of any race anywhere in the world that nobody can find something to complain about.


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## jspharmd (May 24, 2006)

55x11 said:


> I sometimes wonder if there will be any coverage of any race anywhere in the world that nobody can find something to complain about.


Interesting, I love the other coverage. I've had no complaints about any race this year...until now. I'm pretty easy to please, but the ToC has been poor produced. 

I don't think of it as complaining, but more of critiquing. These two are different.


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## Marc (Jan 23, 2005)

jspharmd said:


> Interesting, I love the other coverage. I've had no complaints about any race this year...until now. I'm pretty easy to please, but the ToC has been poor produced.
> 
> I don't think of it as complaining, but more of critiquing. These two are different.


I find it funny considering it is the same exact crew and company doing the video for ToC as do the TdF.


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## 2Slo4U (Feb 12, 2005)

Marc said:


> I find it funny considering it is the same exact crew and company doing the video for ToC as do the TdF.


Exactly what I was thinking...


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## robdamanii (Feb 13, 2006)

Marc said:


> I find it funny considering it is the same exact crew and company doing the video for ToC as do the TdF.


To be honest, I prefer Harmon and Kelly for the tour as well.

Sick of the same old schtick from Phil and Paul (and I think Phil is going senile.)


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## cambo357 (May 10, 2012)

the tour tracker is where its at!! on the computer it was fine, there were a couple little drop offs on the ipod app when I moved to it while not at my desk. picture and sound were great for me, and you still got to hear the Phil-isms, lol.


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## PaxRomana (Jan 16, 2012)

55x11 said:


> I sometimes wonder if there will be any coverage of any race anywhere in the world that nobody can find something to complain about.


Seriously. +1. 

I can't believe people are complaining about this race. They have an HD feed. The quality is superb.


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## spade2you (May 12, 2009)

That channel is now a subscriber only channel. Now I'm 1/2 tempted to cut cable.


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## Marc (Jan 23, 2005)

robdamanii said:


> To be honest, I prefer Harmon and Kelly for the tour as well.
> 
> Sick of the same old schtick from Phil and Paul (and I think Phil is going senile.)


Harmon/Kelly I'd take too in commentating. Hell, I'd like more Carlton Kirby. He at least knows his Giro/TdF/Vuelta tourbook of sights and actually talks about the sights of the race route when there's a lack of interesting action otherwise...in addition to knowing his riders. This Giro Harmon/Kelly have almost never talked about anything the camera crew take opportunity to get good shots of, and you're l;eft wondering what's this tower and why is it important.

Unlike Steve/GoGo who read off how many kilometers there are left from the top-left of the screen every 30 seconds and don't know anyone's name, or Phil/Paul who are getting along in years and mistake 26 minutes for 26 seconds (or the other way around).


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## robdamanii (Feb 13, 2006)

PaxRomana said:


> Seriously. +1.
> 
> I can't believe people are complaining about this race. They have an HD feed. The quality is superb.


Pretty pictures are worthless when you have to push the mute button to stop the drivel from spilling into your living room.

Seriously, cycling does not need to be dumbed down as much as NBC does.


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## jspharmd (May 24, 2006)

Okay, Stage 3 was much better...or was it just me. I thought it looked more professional.


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## stevesbike (Jun 3, 2002)

People always reply with the 'be thankful there's any coverage' but isn't tv rights the main revenue for cycling events? There's no tickets (except London Olympics...) and my understanding is that cycling is the #2 watched sport in Europe. So, it's not like its just a courtesy fans should be grateful for. US producers must still feel they need to explain cycling to the average viewer so direct Liggett and Sherwin to spoonfeed them info. Who knows if they've done any research on their viewership (doubtful given the apparent production quality) but hopefully in the near future it will transition to the assumption of a more informed viewer. Liggett, by the way, sounds like he's sick, so should get a pass for that. He's also tremendous in person with fans and spends a lot of time interacting with them.


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## huckleberry (Jun 26, 2005)

I found the following "California Fact" that was shown during the coverage, as indicative of the quality of NBC's production and broadcast of the TOC "The Golden Gate Bridge lies 4,200 feet above the San Francisco Bay"...

The HD picture is really nice, especially when they find time to show the riders.


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## icsloppl (Aug 25, 2009)

Phil really sounds like he's seriously ill. He shouldn't be commentating in whatever comdition he's in I'm afraid. What's going on there?


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## MRFIXALL4 (May 19, 2003)

Is the tour tracker free? I see the App is free but is there a charge to my iPhone for watching?


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## tober1 (Feb 6, 2009)

The Tracker is definitely free and an awesome site!

http://radioshacktourtracker.amgentourofcalifornia.com/


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## robdamanii (Feb 13, 2006)

icsloppl said:


> Phil really sounds like he's seriously ill. He shouldn't be commentating in whatever comdition he's in I'm afraid. What's going on there?


I think he said earlier in the week that he has allergies which seem to act up every time he's in CA.


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## cambo357 (May 10, 2012)

depending on your data plan, you might incur charges for going over your data cap. but if you are on wifi, no charge at all.


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## jspharmd (May 24, 2006)

Marc said:


> I find it funny considering it is the same exact crew and company doing the video for ToC as do the TdF.


You find my comment funny, or the fact that the first two days of coverage sucked?

I never implied that the Crew doing it sucked, just the product I viewed. 

Did you think it looked and sounded exactly like the TdF?


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## robdamanii (Feb 13, 2006)

jspharmd said:


> You find my comment funny, or the fact that the first two days of coverage sucked?
> 
> I never implied that the Crew doing it sucked, just the product I viewed.
> 
> Did you think it looked and sounded exactly like the TdF?


According to Phil Ligget on the first stage, the ToC is the "greatest bike race in the world."

I nearly fell off my chair. That's some bush league right there.


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## LostViking (Jul 18, 2008)

I'm surprised by the poor picture in both - the Giro because it is a huge sport over there and one would think it warrents better production values - the ToC because - c'mon dis is America! The home of big budget television tech - the shame!

As to the ToC being the biggest cycling event in the world, Phil - errrrr, I think not!
But he does have a tendency to pander to the American viewing audiance - (frothing at the mouth to laude Armstrong and American based or sponsored cycling teams like Radio Shanty and Garmin) - so I take that with a grain of salt.

Still no one announces the last 100 meters of a race better than Phil - no one.


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## TimV (Mar 20, 2007)

I've been watching the ATOC using the Amgen Tour app on my new iPad and have been very pleased. The picture quality is great, there are no commercials, and best of all IT'S FREE!! I've even been bringing my my iPad into work with me so that I can have it on in the afternoon.

For those of you complaining about the NBC broadcast, you should give it a try. Cable TV is joke anymore. It's a dying model.


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## allison (Apr 19, 2006)

Tour Tracker FTW. It isn't perfect but man it is awesome to have


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## dougydee (Feb 15, 2005)

I've been watching the online coverage. No complaints regarding quality. The dribble coming out of Paul and Phil on the other hand, well...


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## zosocane (Aug 29, 2004)

Phil and Paul are not the problem -- they are good, not perfect, but good.

The problem is that the U.S. camera crews on these road races simply don't have the experience that their French, Italian, Belgian and Spanish counterparts have. And the TV production directors also miss the right takes. Finally, the television commercials in the last 20 km kill continuity.


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## givethepigeye (Aug 23, 2009)

Yep, sucks - still waiting for the video - 7:15pm et. Why are we interviewing jockeys.


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## MTBAlex (Jul 24, 2006)

Where is ToC? Nbcsports sucks


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## trener1 (Jan 22, 2004)

I totally agree, I mean it's arguably the biggest day of racing in the US of the whole year and they have the horse racing on?.
I think now that NBC owns it, it will only get worse as they will be chasing the more popular sports.


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## JSR (Feb 27, 2006)

fornaca68 said:


> The problem is that the U.S. camera crews on these road races simply don't have the experience that their French, Italian, Belgian and Spanish counterparts have. And the TV production directors also miss the right takes. Finally, the television commercials in the last 20 km kill continuity.


 IIRC Amaury Sports provides the technical coverage.

JSR


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## Poppadaddio (Apr 15, 2007)

*All is Forgiven*

Go to www.steephill.tv then look for the link for Amgen/Radio Shack Tour Tracker. Hi-def, no commercials, and all the names and statistics. Better than TV!


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## Oxtox (Aug 16, 2006)

great stage, even with the dopey commentary and late start.

but, do they have imbed commercials for Nissan within the actual race coverage...?

aren't there enough commercials without this sleazy tactic...really obnoxious.


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## Marc (Jan 23, 2005)

Oxtox said:


> great stage, even with the dopey commentary and late start.
> 
> but, do they have imbed commercials for Nissan within the actual race coverage...?
> 
> aren't there enough commercials without this sleazy tactic...really obnoxious.


I thought it funny that the cars Nissan had on show at a bicycling race were...well...mostly unsuited to moving bikes.


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## aclinjury (Sep 12, 2011)

[No message]


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## Mapei (Feb 3, 2004)

trener1 said:


> I totally agree, I mean it's arguably the biggest day of racing in the US of the whole year and they have the horse racing on?.
> I think now that NBC owns it, it will only get worse as they will be chasing the more popular sports.


Trener -- It's the second leg of the Triple Crown: the World Series, Tour de France, World Cup, Olympics, Super Bowl of horse racing. It's a big deal. Honest. If you're being funny here, I apologize.


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## simonaway427 (Jul 12, 2010)

fornaca68 said:


> Phil and Paul are not the problem -- they are good, not perfect, but good.
> 
> The problem is that the U.S. camera crews on these road races simply don't have the experience that their French, Italian, Belgian and Spanish counterparts have. And the TV production directors also miss the right takes. Finally, the television commercials in the last 20 km kill continuity.


I'm pretty sure the coverage is crewed by the same european folks that do TdF etc....

Its far better than the Giro coverage (NBC feed). At least the picture doesn't cut out at the slightest encounter of trees or buildings.


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## Marc (Jan 23, 2005)

simonaway427 said:


> I'm pretty sure the coverage is crewed by the same european folks that do TdF etc....
> 
> Its far better than the Giro coverage (NBC feed). At least the picture doesn't cut out at the slightest encounter of trees or buildings.


Um, the ToC Tracker feed had several awful days of dropping video signal. Most of the time it is decent because ToC is going through arid areas with nothing overhead...unlike Giro which is going through forests constantly.


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## WinstonSmith (Apr 25, 2009)

*HD Makes it Worthwhile*

Even though Phil and Paul are getting a little tiresome, you can't beat watching the TOC in HD on a big LCD. 

Just the California scenery (and podium girls) would make it worth watching at that resolution even if there was no race coverage.

I have yet to find any online streaming coverage of cycling that offers the quality of HD and vibrant color I get from NBC Sports. The bandwidth would be too high to send that much data over the pipe I suspect.


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## DZfan14 (Jul 6, 2009)

robdamanii said:


> Really...camera work is horrible, Phil and Paul sound like they just toddled out of a rest home, and what the hell happened that they're filtering out the road noise feed from the motos?


Phil and Paul are way best their sell date. I wonder how much longer they will keep trotting these guys out.


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## zigmeister (Jan 26, 2012)

robdamanii said:


> Really...camera work is horrible, Phil and Paul sound like they just toddled out of a rest home, and what the hell happened that they're filtering out the road noise feed from the motos?



You are more than welcome to go start your own production company to provide dozens of $150K cameras on motorcycles, people to utilize them, a helicopter that runs $300/hr to operate, then send the signal via satellite to broadcast down to whomever is willing to pay you to put this production on and try to make some money.

Yes, not so bad when you consider what it takes to get real time HD video in a moving race across a hundred miles of mountainous terrain.


Rant over...good day.


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## jspharmd (May 24, 2006)

zigmeister said:


> You are more than welcome to go start your own production company to provide dozens of $150K cameras on motorcycles, people to utilize them, a helicopter that runs $300/hr to operate, then send the signal via satellite to broadcast down to whomever is willing to pay you to put this production on and try to make some money.
> 
> Yes, not so bad when you consider what it takes to get real time HD video in a moving race across a hundred miles of mountainous terrain.
> 
> ...


Do you do this type of cost justification for anything you encounter? 

Let's say your friend tells you about a bad experience at your favorite restaurant. Do you tell them to go cook their own food because it takes $X to buy good ingredients, $X to run the grill, $X to pay a cook/chef. With all that being said, they should be comfortable with a meal that is crappy, even though both of you know this restaurant can produce good food. 

I'm sure about you, but I become disappointed in the product (especially when I know how good it could be).


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## bigmig19 (Jun 27, 2008)

Did ANYONE mention those awkward/cringeworthy spots they did that were basically a commercial for SRAM! It was literally like watching a high school station production. Some were decent but the ones where levi or someone would give three words of info followed by lauding SRAM were funny. There are ways to disguise a commercial a little better.


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## Mapei (Feb 3, 2004)

bigmig19 said:


> Did ANYONE mention those awkward/cringeworthy spots they did that were basically a commercial for SRAM! It was literally like watching a high school station production. Some were decent but the ones where levi or someone would give three words of info followed by lauding SRAM were funny. There are ways to disguise a commercial a little better.


I prefer to think of them as charmingly amateurish.


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## aclinjury (Sep 12, 2011)

bigmig19 said:


> Did ANYONE mention those awkward/cringeworthy spots they did that were basically a commercial for SRAM! It was literally like watching a high school station production. Some were decent but the ones where levi or someone would give three words of info followed by lauding SRAM were funny. There are ways to disguise a commercial a little better.


Sponsors pay riders to get the word out. Money talks in this world. What world are you living in?


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## aclinjury (Sep 12, 2011)

jspharmd said:


> Do you do this type of cost justification for anything you encounter?
> 
> Let's say your friend tells you about a bad experience at your favorite restaurant. Do you tell them to go cook their own food because it takes $X to buy good ingredients, $X to run the grill, $X to pay a cook/chef. With all that being said, they should be comfortable with a meal that is crappy, even though both of you know this restaurant can produce good food.
> 
> I'm sure about you, but I become disappointed in the product (especially when I know how good it could be).


It's one thing to say "oh that restaurant is bad, don't go there". Another thing when people are criticizing things like a bunch of nagging wives. Just shut up.


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## den bakker (Nov 13, 2004)

aclinjury said:


> It's one thing to say "oh that restaurant is bad, don't go there". Another thing when people are criticizing things like a bunch of nagging wives. Just shut up.


"good enough" never is


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## robdamanii (Feb 13, 2006)

aclinjury said:


> It's one thing to say "oh that restaurant is bad, don't go there". Another thing when people are criticizing things like a bunch of nagging wives. Just shut up.


So we should all just shut up and say "well, it sucks, but at least it's on TV?"

Bull. Crap.


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## The Weasel (Jul 20, 2006)

As far as I'm concerned, any mistakes they made in production, was made up by showing the blonde podium girl at all the jersey presentations.


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## ti-triodes (Aug 14, 2006)

The Weasel said:


> As far as I'm concerned, any mistakes they made in production, was made up by showing the blonde podium girl at all the jersey presentations.




I've been so busy watching the podium girls at the Giro I haven't had a chance to watch the podiums at the TOC. Luckily, I have it all on the DVR. Thanks for the tip! :thumbsup:


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## foofighter (Dec 19, 2008)

The great thing about the live feed on the tracker is you get to see thing uncut LOL like the guy running along the side of the road buck naked...I had to wash my eyes out with chlorine after that

I enjoyed the broadcast and it made it that much more pleasant to watch it in HD. That being said I do hope that AEG springs a bit more next year on the jersey winner, instead of a sticker that falls off do it right and make it on the spot like the other big name tours...I think Hincapie can hook that up for the Tour next year


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