# Does anyone honestly do hill repeats? Cantstandem.



## worst_shot_ever (Jul 27, 2009)

So I hate climbs, probably because I need to HTFU as they say around here. Regardless, I have been trying to put together a few routes in the DC area that would offer me some "opportunities" to train this most-hated aspect specifically and, hopefully, improve my climbing speed and endurance. Thought I'd see what sort of workouts those who do this sort of thing prefer, in terms of rest vs. climbing intervals, amount of total ascent preferred, etc. I do not have a power meter, and I've never really "trained" with any systematic approach, but I just bought an Edge 305 w/HR and cadence in preparation for next season, so I'm ready to learn all about heart rate zones and to train with a more thoughtful plan. Thanks.


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## SleepyNinja (Mar 6, 2008)

Okay I love climbing but I hate hill repeats seeing the same things over and over again bore me.


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## Daren (Jul 25, 2008)

As per my training plan, I have 2 different repeats.

1) A 5% hill that is 1 mile long. Heart rate below Zone 5, cadence at or above 80 RPM, 5 repeats

2) A 12% mountain that is 1.65 miles long. Heart rate up to zone 5.3, cadence above 60 RPM. 3 repeats.

They suck, but I'm seeing a bid difference on the group rides where I used to get dropped.


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## wim (Feb 28, 2005)

*Some thoughts.*

One way to take out the boredom is to approach hill repeats like a scientific experiment. For example, establish a precise start- and finish line on one hill and do some timed-to-the-second climbs using different ways of portioning out your effort. Even if you don't gain a whole lot of additional fitness, you'll find out how to climb a hill of a certain length in the shortest time. Small hint: most newcomers to structured training climb the beginning stretch of a hill much too fast, then die long before they get to the top.


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## peterk (Jun 28, 2008)

I do not race. I ride a roadbike for basic fitness, weight loss and a substitute for mountain biking. I do hill repeats fairly often. Builds strength quickly and it's a great way for me to get a big workout in very little time. With that said, hills suck.


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## mohair_chair (Oct 3, 2002)

There was a period of time when I did them, but I was only a serious rec rider, not a racer, and they were way too painful to do. I was already a good climber, and loved climbing hills, but I didn't feel I got anything out of doing the repeats except a lot of agony.


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## Minimalist (Apr 20, 2005)

I do them quite frequently and kind of enjoy them. I think the key is to mix it up. Use different hills and different drills. For example sometimes I start in the largest gear I can get up the hill and each repeat choose an easier gear or I alternate between sitting and standing etc.


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## The Weasel (Jul 20, 2006)

peterk said:


> I do not race. I ride a roadbike for basic fitness, weight loss and a substitute for mountain biking. I do hill repeats fairly often. Builds strength quickly and it's a great way for me to get a big workout in very little time. With that said, hills suck.


Same here, just a couple of mtb races during the summer/fall. 
Hills are an odd thing. Some days you love them, some days they hate you. But even on the days when you don’t get along so well, you still appreciate the climb. I’ve never been one of the best climbers, but it’s still one of the greatest aspects of a ride that I look forward to. I guess it’s the challenge and looking forward to being that much better next time…hopefully.
So on most rides, and especially when time is limited I gear my rides to doing as many hills as possible, and occasionally...hill repeats.


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## kbiker3111 (Nov 7, 2006)

If you're a racer, its almost necessary to do intervals. For short intervals, its a nice change of pace to get off the trainer and in the hills. So yes, I do hill repeats. My favorite is a .75 mile, 15% grade thats 3 minutes of pain. And I'm faster for it.


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## Argentius (Aug 26, 2004)

Yeah, you've got to focus. If you try to just go hard sometimes on a ride, you can have fun, but you may not get the specific work in.

I raced less the last year, so I did less specificity.

But, find a five minute hill, and 3 sets of 3 climbs for 9 total was the way for me.

That's a way to make a 90-minute or so ride, into a real workout.

The other way was 3 or 4 15-to-20 minute intervals, a little easier than the 5's. Those I usually did on the flats.


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## HIMEHEEM (Sep 25, 2009)

Yes, twice a week. I suck at climbing and it is always the decider on which races I do. More than "moderate" and I'm dropped. I'll never even be decent at climbing but if I don't work on it, I won't get any opportunity at the finish of hilly RR's.


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## Guest (Jan 20, 2010)

wim said:


> One way to take out the boredom is to approach hill repeats like a scientific experiment. For example, establish a precise start- and finish line on one hill and do some timed-to-the-second climbs using different ways of portioning out your effort. Even if you don't gain a whole lot of additional fitness, you'll find out how to climb a hill of a certain length in the shortest time. Small hint: most newcomers to structured training climb the beginning stretch of a hill much too fast, then die long before they get to the top.


I'll second wim's suggestion to take the mindless agony (physical and mental) out of hill repeats. Also, keeping times associated with different ways I've climbed the same route gives me confidence in what climbing style works best for me in a given situation. 

Just make sure to try the different methods in a different order in another session. Otherwise, your fastest/best method may be unduly influenced by fatigue or lack thereof based on it's order in the repeats.

No way to make them easy, but my seat-of-the-pants experience is that they help me in all areas, not just climbing.


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## Zipp0 (Aug 19, 2008)

I did them a few times last year, and I need to do more of them. Yes, they are hard, and boring, and also effective. And being that most times that I get dropped, it is on the hardest climb of a race, I should be doing them more often.


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## the mayor (Jul 8, 2004)

Daren said:


> As per my training plan, I have 2 different repeats.
> 
> 2) A 12% mountain that is 1.65 miles long. Heart rate up to zone 5.3, cadence above 60 RPM. 3 repeats.
> 
> They suck, but I'm seeing a bid difference on the group rides where I used to get dropped.


5.3? You have zone 5 broken into 10ths?


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## Todd_H (Nov 20, 2009)

I do them. Living in Colorado they're kind of a must - unless you like getting dropped. I track my progress on paper so I know how I am progressing. Kind of like a race against myself. Though hill repeats suck, this makes things at least a bit interesting/tolerable.


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## spade2you (May 12, 2009)

I do them about once or twice a week. I'm fairly good at climbing and try to keep my advantage.


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## worst_shot_ever (Jul 27, 2009)

Thanks for all the suggestions. It is interesting; I'm no fan of climbing, but the hills do tend to take over the entire ride -- before I reach it, I'm thinking about how I want to handle it and trying to psych myself up for it; when I'm on it, I can't think of anything else, of course; and then afterward I'm always thinking about how I did and whether I could have done better. So I intend to really make an effort this season on my climbing.


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## steve_e_f (Sep 8, 2003)

I'm not on any structured training, but I do race a lot and I incorporate a lot of climbing into my training because I get bored easily without the challenge of the climb. Climbs are also a sure way to get the intensity I want from my workout. Its easy to drift off and go slow on the flats, but a climb sorta forces you to stay engaged.

I don't do systematic hill repeats because (once again) I find the repetition of re-riding the same part of the same hill mind-numbing. If riding/training isn't fun, I can't stick with it. I'm just not that disciplined.

As far as hating climbing, it may be because you will never like it, but it could also just be because you never climb and thus suck at it. Which comes first, the chicken or the egg?

To me cycling really gets beautiful when the road starts heading up. Most of the pack advantages are stripped away and there is a really elemental challenge that comes from defying gravity and trying to go up when physics wants you to go down...so to speak.


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## waldo425 (Sep 22, 2008)

I live in an area where I really don't ever need to do repeats. I can do about 5 hills that are a short distance apart. I also use a fixie for my commuting which involves hills on the way to school and a big climb on the way home. I really like climbing so it is fun for me to go out on long climbs or do a bunch of climbs.


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## theBreeze (Jan 7, 2002)

Lots of ways to do hill intervals. During the winter season my coach assigns standing intervals, stand on hills for 3-5 min, but keep the heart rate below 85% of max. That's a LOT harder than it sounds. Typical cadence is 50-60 for me on these, but they are great for working climbing endurance and solidifying standing climbing form.

Other hill work, closer to event season may involve really jamming on short hills, or riding LT on medium length hills. Depends on what the climbing is going to be like in your event, and what type of events you're doing. 

If your focus is primarily long endurance events you are going to approach climbs differently that if you race 75 mile road races or 30 mile mtb races. Where the climbing comes in a race factors in, and how much total climbing factors in. On a mulit-loop course you aren't going to ride a significant hill the same way on the final lap as on the first lap. Training to approach hills in a variety of ways and that most closely matches your goal event will serve you well.

OOW repeating a 1K hill in a big gear all the time isn't going to help if our goal event contains a significant 3-5K climb.


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## nightfend (Mar 15, 2009)

Hill repeats to me is simply going up the same hill over and over again, and using the downhill descent as a rest period.

I try to avoid hill repeats because they are ridiculously painful and tedious. I'd really prefer to strengthen my climbing by riding in a hilly area and doing a variety of different climbs.


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## pretender (Sep 18, 2007)

Lucien van Impe won the Tour's polka dot jersey six times, and the yellow jersey once, by doing hill repeats.


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## muscleendurance (Jan 11, 2009)

OP said:


> * Does anyone honestly do hill repeats? Cantstandem
> *


yeah Id sit for them BAM!


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## desmo13 (Jun 28, 2006)

hill repeats, I have two climbing workouts.. MB our local area, lots of short/steep climbs once a week. also once a week, well, not really a repeat, Mt. Diablo, 10 miles, 4000+ feet. and some people do repeats on that!


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## Terex (Jan 3, 2005)

Thanks for posting. I've been able to ride a bit lately, and I should be working on hills. I've got a good one, next street over, that's just been repaved, so I really don't have any excuses.

Even if you don't have a power meter, you can get a fair approximation of watts from one of the online utilities. Here's one: http://www.noping.net/english/


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## johnlh (Sep 12, 2008)

I find hill repeats to be much more motivating thanother forms of interval training. My favorite workouts involve a mix of gear, standing/sitting, and hand positions.


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## yo mamma (Aug 10, 2009)

I do 'em all the time. Lots of variations, too, and which ones I do depend on time of year, training cycle, etc...

For example, just this week I did 2 repeats up an 11 mile climb that takes roughly 45 minutes to do at tempo pace, 40 minutes if I'm really fit and really pushing it. 

The bottom part of the climb is a little bit steeper than the top, so I can also use the lower 6.5 miles or so for a shorter, harder interval. These workouts are typically 3x25 minutes.

Not far away there's a steeper, shorter climb. Roughly 4 miles that takes 23-25 minutes to climb, but at a much higher intensity than the 6.5 mile climb. It is steep enough that at my weight just climbing at all requires intensity. There's no way to leisurely climb this particular climb. I sometimes do 2 or 3 repeats up this climb, often on fixed gears just for grins. No, I don't descend on the same gears that I climbed with. Dual chainrings and flip/flop hub allows me to have a climbing gear and a descending gear.

Also within 30 minutes of the house I've got a 2.5 mile loop that has a 1.1 mile or so climb that goes up at a roughly 8+ % grade on one side and 1.4 miles or so of more gradual, switchbacking descent. My max has been 7 repeats up the steep side. Freaking killer workout, especially considering that I ladder the gears I use, using progressively higher gears for the first 4 repeats, then work my way back into the lower gears for the remaining repeats. These climbs take between 5 to 6 minutes to complete, whether up the shorter, steeper side or up the longer, more gradual side.

These are all road routes, but I've also got access to some killer hill repeat routes for mtb riding, too. Picture a fairly big hill/small mtn with a network of trails up and down the darn thing, connected by a trail on the top and a trail on the bottom. Ride up one trail (15-20 minutes) head over to another trail to descend, then head to yet another trail to go back up (another 15-20 minutes of climbing), lather, rinse, repeat. After about two to three hours of up/down/up/down/up/down... you get in a killer climbing workout without realizing it. Its just fun.


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## muscleendurance (Jan 11, 2009)

I use to do things like the death ride, so would do most of my riding on climbs in the mountains. Steadystate intervals 15-20 min climbs repeated 2-4 times, building to 30minutes and also harder interval climbs of shorter distance for speed and power work. Usually around 6000ft of climing a session a few times a week or more nearing peak.


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## bahueh (May 11, 2004)

now I know you're lying...there are no hills in DC...


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## DirtTurtle (Dec 21, 2007)

steve_e_f said:


> I'm not on any structured training, but I do race a lot and I incorporate a lot of climbing into my training because I get bored easily without the challenge of the climb. Climbs are also a sure way to get the intensity I want from my workout. Its easy to drift off and go slow on the flats, but a climb sorta forces you to stay engaged.
> 
> I don't do systematic hill repeats because (once again) I find the repetition of re-riding the same part of the same hill mind-numbing. If riding/training isn't fun, I can't stick with it. I'm just not that disciplined.
> 
> ...


I have a twin somewhere in the world, exactly how i think and train. Love it!!!


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## ericm979 (Jun 26, 2005)

I do many different kinds of hill repeats- from short 5 min all out efforts to 20-40 min efforts to rides with three hour long climbs, for 10,000 feet of elevation gain. Those are for Everest Challenge or Death Ride training.

I find that I get less bored if I can do them on different climbs, rather than using the same climb over and over. I repeat the same climb for the shorter intervals just to get it done quickly. Using different climbs works out better for the longer ones.

On the other hand, I dislike sprint intervals. I'd rather do the sprints in group rides.


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## Poncharelli (May 7, 2006)

Yes, I do them too. Last Sunday I did 3 hours of 10 minutes up, coast down. 2 hours on one hill, last hour on another. 

I find that doing things that are mentally tough in training, prepares me for doing things that are mentally tough in racing.


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## nightfend (Mar 15, 2009)

bahueh said:


> now I know you're lying...there are no hills in DC...


Nah, we go to Frederick and Western Howard county for the hills.


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## worst_shot_ever (Jul 27, 2009)

nightfend said:


> Nah, we go to Frederick and Western Howard county for the hills.


Yeah, my definition of hill my not be the same as others. There are no long, steady climbs that I'm aware off. The hills I hsve in mind are short and relatively steep -- Tilden and Brandywine (off Beech Dr), Brickyard (off MacArthur), and a couple others. I try to chain a few of them in one particular area together into a short, misery inducing loop.

I'm enjoying reading about other people's climb workouts though!


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## MightySchmoePong (Jul 22, 2006)

worst_shot_ever said:


> Yeah, my definition of hill my not be the same as others. There are no long, steady climbs that I'm aware off. The hills I hsve in mind are short and relatively steep -- Tilden and Brandywine (off Beech Dr), Brickyard (off MacArthur), and a couple others. I try to chain a few of them in one particular area together into a short, misery inducing loop.
> 
> I'm enjoying reading about other people's climb workouts though!


Lots of good hills in Frederick. I do repeats on Hamburg road. It's about 2.5 miles, ~7% grade with a couple of steeper sections thrown in.


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## pw1972 (Jun 10, 2008)

I use 5a, 5b, and 5c.. is 5.3 along the lines of 5a = 5.1, 5b = 5.2 an 5c = 5.3?



the mayor said:


> 5.3? You have zone 5 broken into 10ths?


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## tjanson (Nov 11, 2006)

I _love_ hill repeats. When I was in high school, my XC coach had us do them all the time, and though they were stupid hard, I got used to them and came enjoy them for some reason. Maybe I like them because they are nostalgic now for me?

I agree that they have a mental training aspect to them too, especially if you are doing them in a group. It's a good way to learn what your limits really are and what to expect when you push them- rather than in a race when the result matters.


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## Creakyknees (Sep 21, 2003)

I also love hill repeats. I think I'll get a t-shirt made. They make me fast, in a hurry.


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## bas (Jul 30, 2004)

SleepyNinja said:


> Okay I love climbing but I hate hill repeats seeing the same things over and over again bore me.


they wouldn't if there was some milf at the top of the hill hanging out watching you go by all the time.

be there, done that.


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## alexp247365 (Dec 29, 2009)

I like hills as they are the easiest measure of progress. Yes they are painful, but I like the challenge of trying to ascend a hill multiple times just as quick, or quicker than, as the first attempt of the ride. Hills also seem to produce a strong desire in me to keep my weight in check, and eat correctly.


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## Haridic (Jun 9, 2008)

I dont honestly do hill repeats. I lie to myself.

Each time i go up that hill i promise myself that this is the last one and there wont be any pain any more. My body is so gullible


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## Creakyknees (Sep 21, 2003)

https://www.cafepress.com/cp/customize/product.aspx?clear=true&number= 430240291


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## Jay T (Oct 25, 2006)

I live beside the escarpment that streches between the great lakes in Southern Ontario. Within 10k of my house there are half a dozen climbs that are approx. 10-14% in grade all about 1km long with some switchbacks etc.

I'll blast through a bunch of these in different order to get a 90 minute workout in.


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## MerlinAma (Oct 11, 2005)

I love them. I love them since they make me stronger and faster. I love them because many people don't. I love them when I'm on a climb passing 50 riders for every 1 that passes me. Did I say that I love them?


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## Mtn2RoadConvert (Aug 28, 2006)

There is a hill that I train on that allows you to ride up one side, down the other and back up and down again. Each direction is just over a mile, and the grade ranges from 5-8%, and find that to be excellent hill training. I admire some of the nice views from near the top and never seem to get bored.


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## Mountainking (Apr 5, 2012)

I did a hill repeat like 2 weeks and honestly, the results were immediate. It helped me have a good ride on a pretty hard and steep climb 

Here is the repeat. Did it 5 times because I ran out of time and had to go back home.
Mountain Bike Ride Profile | Repeat Segment - Ligne Berthaud Climb (5 times) near Vacoas Phoenix | Times and Records | Strava
Mountain Bike Ride Profile | Repeat Segment - Ligne Berthaud Climb (5 times) near Vacoas Phoenix | Times and Records | Strava

Here is the climb 
Mountain Bike Ride Profile | Bassin Blanc with Noordin - Part I near Vacoas Phoenix | Times and Records | Strava

This thing is dope  I just fell in love with hill repeat


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## NJBiker72 (Jul 9, 2011)

SleepyNinja said:


> Okay I love climbing but I hate hill repeats seeing the same things over and over again bore me.


I agree with this. I will do hilly loops. Most common is a 7.5 mile loop near my house that has about 700 ft of vertical. In the summer I may do 2 or 3 laps before work. 

Also I have a ride along a valley road where I can basically turn left or right and hit big hills. 

So it is sort of hill repeats with a tad less boredom.


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## nOOky (Mar 20, 2009)

I prefer rolling hill repeats with shorter,frequent efforts, but those kinds of roads are few and far between. Repeatedly going up and down the same hill is extremely boring, so I just plan rides with hills at periodic times which actually simulates a local race better anyway. 

Our local gravel club rides frequently erupt into races whenever the road tilts up, that's good training also.


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## PBL450 (Apr 12, 2014)

I've been doing 1/3 mile sprints on a 6% grade, 8 sets. It's in a loop so I can coast down and go again and again. It's convenient, right by my house. I do 2 times a week, and it's a good way to get in meaningful work when I have less time and space. I'm a new rider and I can tell it helps already. I'm also working on standing and getting up the hill faster and in higher gears. I kind of like it.


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## vetboy (Oct 11, 2005)

I did hill repeats way back in 2010 when this thread was started. I still do them now


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## Jwiffle (Mar 18, 2005)

NJBiker72 said:


> I agree with this. I will do hilly loops. Most common is a 7.5 mile loop near my house that has about 700 ft of vertical. In the summer I may do 2 or 3 laps before work.
> 
> Also I have a ride along a valley road where I can basically turn left or right and hit big hills.
> 
> So it is sort of hill repeats with a tad less boredom.


I do the same. More fun to go on a real ride with multiple hills/mountains than doing same one over and over.


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## Alfonsina (Aug 26, 2012)

Is there any real disadvantage to doing lots of hill work? Where I live in the Wasatch my nearest good route is doing a 2 sided hill climb, abut 2600 ft in 10 miles climb and 10 descent or so, but I wonder if I should be spending more time looking for flats. There isn't anything much flatter than 50ft/mile in my riding area, I am not enthused about driving my bike to ride most of the time.


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## Poncharelli (May 7, 2006)

Alfonsina said:


> Is there any real disadvantage to doing lots of hill work? Where I live in the Wasatch my nearest good route is doing a 2 sided hill climb, abut 2600 ft in 10 miles climb and 10 descent or so, but I wonder if I should be spending more time looking for flats. There isn't anything much flatter than 50ft/mile in my riding area, I am not enthused about driving my bike to ride most of the time.


Sounds like you live more in the SLC area. I live up in Ogden and it seems like we have the best of both worlds. I got access to hills from 10-40 minutes in length right outside my door. If I MTB instead, I can ride the pavement up to Skyline Trail and complete an HC climb (over 2 hours, all climbing). 

But If I ride west towards free way, in 15 minutes I have access to absolute pancake flat roads. 

As far as advantages and disadvantages, it just depends on what your natural propensity is, and what weaknesses you want to work on. 

For example, I did hill repeats on the North Ogden Pass Saturday just because I wanted Tempo work without concentrating (climbing, you naturally just fall into tempo; on the flats, you really have to concentrate to stay at tempo power). But at the same time, it seems that climbing like this kills leg speed which doesn't help crit racing. So on other days I will ride out on the flats and concentrate on high cadence (90+) or do high cadence intervals (short bursts up to 130+ rpm). If you ride the same way all the time, you develop neuromuscular adapations to that particular type of riding. For me, mixing it up gives the best overall performance. 

I'm naturally a punchy power rider so long hills is good for me, to work that weakness. So lots of long miles and long hills. Then I'll introduce the short punchy stuff (and races) for a couple of months before a peak.


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