# Which power setting for a Garmin 500?



## spade2you (May 12, 2009)

Just got my Gamin 500 and Quarq yesterday and took the TT bike out for a spin. I noticed my power was all over the place. Sure, there were times where I was putting more force on the pedals or taking advantage of a descent, but I _think_ the fluctuations were based on a sensitive Quarq. Even when I specifically focused on holding my effort, I noticed fluctuation. I currently have it set at current watts. Should I change it to 30 second avg or something?


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## kbiker3111 (Nov 7, 2006)

Have you used a powermeter before? I'm not sure what you're frame of reference is. Power fluctuates A LOT. Its not at all like HR.


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## robdamanii (Feb 13, 2006)

I use the following on my Edge 705:
Current Power
Average Lap Power
Avg 3 second power

I'm even thinking of getting rid of current power since it's more or less useless at that moment.


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## spade2you (May 12, 2009)

kbiker3111 said:


> Have you used a powermeter before? I'm not sure what you're frame of reference is. Power fluctuates A LOT. Its not at all like HR.


Good to know it fluctuates. This was my first ride with the Garmin and Quarq. At this point, I'm hoping to use it to pace myself in ITTs. I have the luxury of riding most of the local ITTs and was hoping to set targets.


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## kbiker3111 (Nov 7, 2006)

spade2you said:


> Good to know it fluctuates. This was my first ride with the Garmin and Quarq. At this point, I'm hoping to use it to pace myself in ITTs. I have the luxury of riding most of the local ITTs and was hoping to set targets.


You'll figure out what works for you. I have current power and average lap pwr displayed on mine. It takes almost a month to really get the feel for when to be staring at the thing and when to go by feel. In a TT, I find I just need to pace the first ~5 minutes, beyond that its just hammer the pedals as hard as I can.


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## spade2you (May 12, 2009)

kbiker3111 said:


> You'll figure out what works for you. I have current power and average lap pwr displayed on mine. It takes almost a month to really get the feel for when to be staring at the thing and when to go by feel. In a TT, I find I just need to pace the first ~5 minutes, beyond that its just hammer the pedals as hard as I can.


Gotcha. I'll play around with it and see what works as well as try a 100% serious effort. I wasn't riding to the power meter, but I was surprised with the power swings of +/- 50w while I felt like I was holding a steady pace.


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## 32and3cross (Feb 28, 2005)

If you have not been riding withe power before there is a learning curve. When I started riding I too was all over the place but after a few years I got smoother and smother til I can really keep it with in a 20 watt range pretty easily on longer efforts bt you have to teach yourself to do that.


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## spade2you (May 12, 2009)

32and3cross said:


> If you have not been riding withe power before there is a learning curve. When I started riding I too was all over the place but after a few years I got smoother and smother til I can really keep it with in a 20 watt range pretty easily on longer efforts but you have to teach yourself to do that.


Good to know and I'm about as sharp as a bowling ball. :idea: 

I was was trying to keep things smooth, but perhaps I was looking a little too much at it. To a certain extent, I may have been obsessing with the continuous side winds as well. In the straight sections, I was keeping it in the same gear and cadence, but I think I noticed that the perceived exertion seemed to vary as the gusts hit me. 

Not sure when I'll take my TT bike out again, but I'll try it again sooner or later. 

Power meter aside, I'm really impressed with the Garmin 500. I remember writing crap down in a notebook during high school when I'd ride, but I downloaded it and saw all the stuff and was blown away, although technology tends to do that to me. I switched it to the 30s avg, but I'm not set in stone with this and it's fairly easy to change. I'm extremely happy to have everything on one screen, which is something my Polar lacked.


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## rbart4506 (Aug 4, 2004)

I use 3s Ave Power and Lap Power...


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## StefanG (Nov 25, 2009)

rbart4506 said:


> I use 3s Ave Power and Lap Power...


+1, most folks don't bother displaying current power, because it fluctuates so much it doesn't provide much value. Most use 3 sec average, as this give you a reading that is more stable.

And don't forget to ensure your unit is set to "include zeroes" otherwise, when you coast it won't include that "rest period" in your averages, which is misleading to you.


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## spade2you (May 12, 2009)

StefanG said:


> And don't forget to ensure your unit is set to "include zeroes" otherwise, when you coast it won't include that "rest period" in your averages, which is misleading to you.


Ahhhhhhhhhhhhhhh. That's a really good idea. I'll have to do that next time, too.


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## MontyCrisco (Sep 21, 2008)

Having 30s power can be helpful in hilly terrain, especially for long intervals (e.g., endurance rides where you want to hold, say, 70% of FTP for 3 hours). 1s power is useful for very short efforts, but in that case I'd argue you are going too hard to be able to monitor on the fly. Either way the unit records with 1s precision so you can review the data later on without smoothing.


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## kbiker3111 (Nov 7, 2006)

StefanG said:


> +1, most folks don't bother displaying current power, because it fluctuates so much it doesn't provide much value. Most use 3 sec average, as this give you a reading that is more stable.
> 
> And don't forget to ensure your unit is set to "include zeroes" otherwise, when you coast it won't include that "rest period" in your averages, which is misleading to you.


Thats funny, I find almost no use in 3s power. I'm not a very steady rider, so 3 second averages means I can slack off or over power for almost 5 seconds before making a correction.


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## Fixed (May 12, 2005)

*useless?*

I sold my SRM primarily for that reason. I wanted it for time trial pacing, but the erratic numbers were pretty much useless. It needs a 5 (or whatever) second smoothing feature, but didn't have it. Power meters are much more useful in analyzing data after the ride, not so much during.



spade2you said:


> Just got my Gamin 500 and Quarq yesterday and took the TT bike out for a spin. I noticed my power was all over the place. Sure, there were times where I was putting more force on the pedals or taking advantage of a descent, but I _think_ the fluctuations were based on a sensitive Quarq. Even when I specifically focused on holding my effort, I noticed fluctuation. I currently have it set at current watts. Should I change it to 30 second avg or something?


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## spade2you (May 12, 2009)

Fixed said:


> Power meters are much more useful in analyzing data after the ride, not so much during.


I'll give it another shot, although I don't think I'll race with it on my road bike. Still going to train with it. Seems like tracking and analyzing rides is much more useful. I just wish Garmin's site had an area where I could comment about the weather. The maiden voyage was very gusty and a side wind about 80% of the time based on the route. I'll give it another shot sometime next week. 

Perhaps I'm more impressed with the Garmin 500 than anything. Very slick. The HRM seems more than a little more reliable than the Polar stuff I've been using. I was reminded when I used my road bike w/Polar the following day.


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## Fixed (May 12, 2005)

*500*

Over all, I love my 500. I don't use HR or power or cadence, but everything else works great. I have a lot of bikes and keep a mount on each one, so I can move one computer around in seconds without worrying about magnets and wheel sizes, etc. Like that you can modify the screens and info you get. 

For time trials, I still think the best way to get good at them is essentially by "feel," anyway. Use the technology to help you learn the feel, but don't rely upon it.



spade2you said:


> I'll give it another shot, although I don't think I'll race with it on my road bike. Still going to train with it. Seems like tracking and analyzing rides is much more useful. I just wish Garmin's site had an area where I could comment about the weather. The maiden voyage was very gusty and a side wind about 80% of the time based on the route. I'll give it another shot sometime next week.
> 
> Perhaps I'm more impressed with the Garmin 500 than anything. Very slick. The HRM seems more than a little more reliable than the Polar stuff I've been using. I was reminded when I used my road bike w/Polar the following day.


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## spade2you (May 12, 2009)

Fixed said:


> Over all, I love my 500. I don't use HR or power or cadence, but everything else works great. I have a lot of bikes and keep a mount on each one, so I can move one computer around in seconds without worrying about magnets and wheel sizes, etc. Like that you can modify the screens and info you get.
> 
> For time trials, I still think the best way to get good at them is essentially by "feel," anyway. Use the technology to help you learn the feel, but don't rely upon it.


Feel will always win. I hoping to accurately dial in my local courses to know where I want to be for my ~23 mile and 15 mile courses. I'm hoping power is helpful since my HR is usually ~10bpm higher during a race vs. practice on the same ITT course. 

I'll probably use the 500 on all of my bikes eventually. My Quarq transmits cadence, so I already have an extra cadence sensor, which I'll put on my next bike. For wireless and GPS based, it's way better than the Polar. The response in changes of speed or cadence is just like my wired computer. I only wish it would show what gear I'm in. I don't _need_ this function, but my Campy Ergobrain that's still kicking on my 1st road bike spoiled me in that aspect.


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## Alex_Simmons/RST (Jan 12, 2008)

Fixed said:


> I sold my SRM primarily for that reason. I wanted it for time trial pacing, but the erratic numbers were pretty much useless. It needs a 5 (or whatever) second smoothing feature, but didn't have it. Power meters are much more useful in analyzing data after the ride, not so much during.


A quick check of the manual and use of the SRMwin software would have shown you the option to apply smoothing to the Powercontrol's displayed data over a user defined number of pedal strokes.


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## ms6073 (Jul 7, 2005)

kbiker3111 said:


> Thats funny, I find almost no use in 3s power.


For intervals (specificially SLT/TP/FTP), I find that when displaying both 3s & 30s power in concert with a pre-programmed workout, while by no means steady, the 3s & 30s metrics help to maintain desired power output. Of course the power to lo/power to high chimes are also good reminders but with all the windy days the past few weeks, the hi/lo warning chimes are sounding quite a bit more than I would like.


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## spade2you (May 12, 2009)

I finally got around to play around with the Quarq and Garmin again. The 30s avg power seems to work a lot better for my needs in an ITT. Did my best to avoid spikes and I seemed to have a little more in the tank. I think I'm close to knowing my avg power for a particular course, too. Not bad.


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## 32and3cross (Feb 28, 2005)

Fixed said:


> I sold my SRM primarily for that reason. I wanted it for time trial pacing, but the erratic numbers were pretty much useless. It needs a 5 (or whatever) second smoothing feature, but didn't have it. Power meters are much more useful in analyzing data after the ride, not so much during.


Wow disagree completely. I use no smoothing and I can use the power for TT efforts fine in fact I use it for all my intervals. I do analyze after but really it mostly just confirms my impressions of how I was doing during the interval.


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## spade2you (May 12, 2009)

Possibly stupid question.....
how do I know how accurate my Quarq numbers are? I've only used it 3 times so far, but after discussing my power numbers with a few friends, they thought the numbers were abnormally low.


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## 32and3cross (Feb 28, 2005)

spade2you said:


> Possibly stupid question.....
> how do I know how accurate my Quarq numbers are? I've only used it 3 times so far, but after discussing my power numbers with a few friends, they thought the numbers were abnormally low.



They are on par with what I have seen when I used a Powertap in the past so if they are off they are consistantly off. 

I generally refuse to compair #s with anyone as I use this as a tool to train myself I don't really compair how my #s stack up to someone elses how I trully compair gets decided on raceday.


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## spade2you (May 12, 2009)

32and3cross said:


> They are on par with what I have seen when I used a Powertap in the past so if they are off they are consistantly off.
> 
> I generally refuse to compair #s with anyone as I use this as a tool to train myself I don't really compair how my #s stack up to someone elses how I trully compair gets decided on raceday.


Fair enough. I realize I'm a very small rider, but more or less double checking the numbers I'm getting. I kind of wish I picked one up earlier, but it is what it is. 

It could be dead-on since I've been struggling this year, which has me slightly baffled, but that's another story for another day, I guess.


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## 32and3cross (Feb 28, 2005)

spade2you said:


> Fair enough. I realize I'm a very small rider, but more or less double checking the numbers I'm getting. I kind of wish I picked one up earlier, but it is what it is.
> 
> It could be dead-on since I've been struggling this year, which has me slightly baffled, but that's another story for another day, I guess.



See your weight has so much to do with this. My wife was able to put out about 220-230 watts at LT when she was at the top of her game. Thats not even tempo for me but trying to hold her wheel when she was doing 230 watts uphill when she weights 60+ lbs less than me was nearly impossible for me that easily put me over my LT and into the red (add to that she could jack the pace up multiple times during the climb). 

On the other hand I could make her cry uncle on a false flat with a cross wind  .


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## spade2you (May 12, 2009)

32and3cross said:


> See your weight has so much to do with this. My wife was able to put out about 220-230 watts at LT when she was at the top of her game. Thats not even tempo for me but trying to hold her wheel when she was doing 230 watts uphill when she weights 60+ lbs less than me was nearly impossible for me that easily put me over my LT and into the red (add to that she could jack the pace up multiple times during the climb).
> 
> On the other hand I could make her cry uncle on a false flat with a cross wind  .


LOL, my 40k TT output is WAY less than that, which is why my friends and I were questioning the Quarq.


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## 32and3cross (Feb 28, 2005)

spade2you said:


> LOL, my 40k TT output is WAY less than that, which is why my friends and I were questioning the Quarq.


Well she never put those kind of watts out in TTs (she could always push herself alot harder climbing) and she was a cat 1 (and has beat pleanty of guys) so no shame there.


If you have a friend that has a powertap put that on you bike for a ride (helps if its wireless) and compaire the watts. Its important for you to trust what your seeing. I always have to convince myself that the powermeter is right after I have it calibrated. If you have alot of doubt send it back to Quark for calibration they will do it for free (well you pay shipping) and they are fast.


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## spade2you (May 12, 2009)

32and3cross said:


> Well she never put those kind of watts out in TTs (she could always push herself alot harder climbing) and she was a cat 1 (and has beat pleanty of guys) so no shame there.
> 
> 
> If you have a friend that has a powertap put that on you bike for a ride (helps if its wireless) and compaire the watts. Its important for you to trust what your seeing. I always have to convince myself that the powermeter is right after I have it calibrated. If you have alot of doubt send it back to Quark for calibration they will do it for free (well you pay shipping) and they are fast.


LOL, if I were easily shamed, I would have quit many times, especially after my piss poor performance at Joe Martin. 

I plan on a power tap later for my general purpose roadie, so I'll see if the numbers jive later. For now, I'm just using it to record and pace a little better. The numbers could be accurate since I'm extremely small and have never been all that powerful.


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## the_gormandizer (May 12, 2006)

Do you use WKO+? It has a useful chart called Power Profile where you can view your power numbers for various power durations, normalized by body mass. Then you can see how you compare to some norms for untrained through Cat 5 up to Pro.

I like my Quarq, so much so that I have two: one compact and one standard. So much more freedom to switch wheelsets. The only downside is the cost. Fortunately my wife has no idea....


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## spade2you (May 12, 2009)

the_gormandizer said:


> Do you use WKO+? It has a useful chart called Power Profile where you can view your power numbers for various power durations, normalized by body mass. Then you can see how you compare to some norms for untrained through Cat 5 up to Pro.
> 
> I like my Quarq, so much so that I have two: one compact and one standard. So much more freedom to switch wheelsets. The only downside is the cost. Fortunately my wife has no idea....


I do not use WKO+ yet. So far I've only used the Garmin site since I've been a tad on the busy side and Garmin Connect was amazingly easy and quick. 

I enjoy not being tied to a wheel set, which is why I use it on my TT bike as well as the ITT being my usual priority. Hardly a specialty, but where I suck the least at the moment. 

For general training, I was planning on using a power tap wireless. As a Campy guy, I'm a little too spoiled with the way my 11sp shifts to mess with that. I'll need new wheels for the new bike anyway and I'm trying to build it well...but not necessarily top dollar for everything.


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## the_gormandizer (May 12, 2006)

spade2you said:


> I do not use WKO+ yet.


Either WKO+ or Golden Cheetah, plus the TRPM book, are essential. I also use Garmin Connect to map rides but you really do need the software to maximize the power meter's potential. WKO+ maps very closely to the book and it is Windows-based. I have not yet tried GC (Linux and Mac), but I hear it is pretty good too.

Since you have Campy 11, you probably are best served with the PT. Especially now Quarq is owned by SRAM, they won't continue supporting other cranks.


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## spade2you (May 12, 2009)

the_gormandizer said:


> Either WKO+ or Golden Cheetah, plus the TRPM book, are essential. I also use Garmin Connect to map rides but you really do need the software to maximize the power meter's potential. WKO+ maps very closely to the book and it is Windows-based. I have not yet tried GC (Linux and Mac), but I hear it is pretty good too.
> 
> Since you have Campy 11, you probably are best served with the PT. Especially now Quarq is owned by SRAM, they won't continue supporting other cranks.


Gotcha. I'll have to take a look at those. I briefly played with Training Peaks, but I wasn't too impressed, not that I had a whole lot of time. 

I was just glad Sherpa was able to assure me that the Sram Quarq worked with Record 10. I can't say I was too thrilled to hear that Sram bought Quarq since the shop and I had issues with the first Quarq they sent us AND the Sram BB. They helped us as best they could, but there was a lot of time and trouble shooting involved. 

LOL, the whole power meter thing is full of hassles and choices, eh? Not much Campy love these days. I'm just happy the Garmin 500 is so cool, IMHO.


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## ms6073 (Jul 7, 2005)

spade2you said:


> LOL, my 40k TT output is WAY less than that, which is why my friends and I were questioning the Quarq.


Average power/Normalized power will rarely be comparable between a group of cyclists, a better metric would be to compare watts per kilogram.


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## spade2you (May 12, 2009)

ms6073 said:


> Average power/Normalized power will rarely be comparable between a group of cyclists, a better metric would be to compare watts per kilogram.


Gotcha. Makes sense. In that respect, I'm doing alright. 

At least the Quarq is precise.


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## hrumpole (Jun 17, 2008)

I've started using a powertap this year, and I've been using GC 2.0 for the mac and really like it, as well as uploading to garmin for a general training log. GCheetah will also map your routes. There is no comparison between analysis software like GCheetah and Garmin connect--it's the difference between an iphone and 2 cups and string. (If WKO had a mac version I would buy it, but it's hard to compete with free). The analysis of your rides is unbelievably fun. Each one is its own little puzzle.

Given what you know about the sport, the Book may be just be a gloss for you, but it's definitely worth reading. I read it twice before deciding to take the plunge on a ptap, and am very glad that I did. If you haven't, I would also subscribe to the Wattage group on Google. That is a really great source of information, and folks are very kind and helpful to newbies (much like another forum that I know). Allen and Coggan frequently post there.

In terms of display--the first screen I have a bunch of things on there for general riding, and it's a bit crowded (HR, cadence, 3sec, lap pwr, speed, time elapsed) On the second screen, which is for intervals, I have 3sec power, lap power, 30 sec power, lap time, cadence. The third screen is a summary of the whole ride (avg pwr, distance traveled, stuff like that). I never look at screen 3 while riding.


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## spade2you (May 12, 2009)

Thanks for the info. I have Allen and Coogen's book, although I haven't cracked it at this point. 

I'll have to check out Golden Cheetah and WKO in the next couple of days. 

At the moment, I just have 2 screens for my Garmin (TT and my indoor trainer/rollers setting).


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