# 700x28c tires



## Vibe

So I keep seeing 23vs25 but what about 28c?

I will assume they are even less prone to flats and more comfortable than 25c's.

Anyone here ride with 28c and can tell me how often they get flats?


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## Pablo

With 28s, you may run into the problem of whether the tire will fit on newer frames and forks with tight clearance. Also, as will all tires, actual real-world widths may vary from what the manufacteror (gawd, I can't spell) says. Also, the toughness of a tire depends on things other than width.

All that said, I ride Ruffy Tuffys almost excusively now. They're heavier, but as bomb proof as any tire I've ever experienced.


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## Vibe

Not worried about clearance because these are what comes with the bike

schwinn letour super 700x28c continental ultra sport


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## Mike T.

Vibe said:


> So I keep seeing 23vs25 but what about 28c?
> I will assume they are even less prone to flats and more comfortable than 25c's.
> Anyone here ride with 28c and can tell me how often they get flats?


Be careful as it's a minefield out there. I have a set of Continental Grand Prix 4 Season Vectran, advertised as 28mm wide. They measure 26mm with my vernier caliper.

Then I have a set of Michelin Pro 25mm tires that measure 26.5mm wide. So my 25mm tires are fatter than my 28mm tires. And the Michelins are 5g heavier than the Contis. Go figure.


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## AJL

I'm probably going to put 700x28c tires on this summer, but choosing which one to go with is a problem (widths not matching specs being one of them).

If Michelin made Krylions in 28mm, I'd be done. Conti has Gatorskins and GP4000s in 28mm, with the former being very tough, but not very grippy (from what I hear). Schwalbe has their Durano HS 399 and Durano Plus HS 399 tires (the later being slower/heavier) - but I have no experience with Schwalbe (duh, I should check for RBR's reviews!).

Any other good choices out there (considering a tire I like very much is the Michelin Krylions, which need replacing, in 25mm).


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## RussellS

Mike T. said:


> I have a set of Continental Grand Prix 4 Season Vectran, advertised as 28mm wide. They measure 26mm with my vernier caliper.


I just measured my Continental Grand Prix 4-Season 700x28 at 26 mm wide. About 252 grams.


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## Guntrainer

I went for a pair of Schwalbe Durano Plus in 25 width and had both tires develop significant tread bulges in under 20 miles. No sidewall damage, as tires were installed by hand without tools. If tires can be damaged by hand, they are too fragile for me.

They are being returned to Bike Tires Direct tomorrow.

Going back to tried and true Vittoria Rubino Pros. Went though 5 last season, but had zero flats.

I rode on a lot of hilly, curvy rides before I moved away, and 28's were great. VERY stable, no flats, and when pumped up to a near max pressure, very fast.


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## dot

RussellS said:


> I just measured my Continental Grand Prix 4-Season 700x28 at 26 mm wide. About 252 grams.


are you sure? my GP 4 season 700x25 weigh 252 and 262g and are ~25.5mm wide. You're probably talking about 25mm version.

PS I've never seen a conti tyre to weigh less than claimed, from my MTB experience.


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## Mike T.

dot said:


> are you sure? my GP 4 season 700x25 weigh 252 and 262g and are ~25.5mm wide. You're probably talking about 25mm version.
> PS I've never seen a conti tyre to weigh less than claimed, from my MTB experience.


My "28mm" Continental Grand Prix 4 Season measure exactly 26mm and are 253 grams on my scale.


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## Vibe

Well, I'm ordering the bike that come with these 28c tires...cant wait!


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## JohnHenry

i rode 28's on my fixed gear for over a year (Conti). No flats & rather comfortable...but i had this weird feeling of rolling on balloons compared to 700x23. So, I put some Conti 700x24 (if anything, just for novelty in sizing). The ride isn't as pleasant, but I like it.


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## teleguy57

*Rims may be a factor...*

My Rubino Pro 25s measure exactly 25mm on my Neuvations. And my Rubino Pro 28s on the same rims measure ----- exactly 25mm! The 28s run taller, and would hit the underside of the fork crown when I put them on my road bike (they're fine on my CX/rain bike).

I'm interested in what people know about tire width on the wider rims (Hed C2, Velocity A23, etc) compared to the same tire on a conventional narrow rim.


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## AJL

teleguy57 said:


> My Rubino Pro 25s measure exactly 25mm on my Neuvations. And my Rubino Pro 28s on the same rims measure ----- exactly 25mm! The 28s run taller, and would hit the underside of the fork crown when I put them on my road bike (they're fine on my CX/rain bike).
> 
> I'm interested in what people know about tire width on the wider rims (Hed C2, Velocity A23, etc) compared to the same tire on a conventional narrow rim.


Wish I could afford some HED C2s - wider rims seem to make so much sense to me.


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## AJL

Guntrainer said:


> I went for a pair of Schwalbe Durano Plus in 25 width and had both tires develop significant tread bulges in under 20 miles. No sidewall damage, as tires were installed by hand without tools. If tires can be damaged by hand, they are too fragile for me.
> 
> They are being returned to Bike Tires Direct tomorrow.
> 
> Going back to tried and true Vittoria Rubino Pros. Went though 5 last season, but had zero flats.
> 
> I rode on a lot of hilly, curvy rides before I moved away, and 28's were great. VERY stable, no flats, and when pumped up to a near max pressure, very fast.


That suxors! I was thinking maybe I should look at the Rubino Pros, but a poster above found a fairly odd issue with measurements


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## tarwheel2

The actual width of tires depends somewhat on the rims on your wheels. I've got Conti GP 4 Season 28s on my commuter/touring wheels with Velocity Dyad rims, and they measure exactly 28 mm wide. These have been great tires for me. I was a little concerned when I got a flat shortly after installing them when my rear wheel picked up a big chunk of glass. However, I haven't had any more flats since then -- and I've put 2,600 miles on the tires over the past 14 months with plenty of tread left.

That said, I don't notice that much difference in ride between 25s and 28s, but the roads are pretty good where I ride. I don't even notice a problem when I commute on one of my bikes with 23s.


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## AJL

tarwheel2 said:


> The actual width of tires depends somewhat on the rims on your wheels. I've got Conti GP 4 Season 28s on my commuter/touring wheels with Velocity Dyad rims, and they measure exactly 28 mm wide. These have been great tires for me. I was a little concerned when I got a flat shortly after installing them when my rear wheel picked up a big chunk of glass. However, I haven't had any more flats since then -- and I've put 2,600 miles on the tires over the past 14 months with plenty of tread left.


Those Dyad's look good, probably less $$s than HED C2. Drilling choices s*ck though. The A23s look like a much better choice (I like high tension bladed spokes). I prefer they were 25-27mm deep for added strength (I'm a Clydesdale).




> That said, I don't notice that much difference in ride between 25s and 28s, but the roads are pretty good where I ride. I don't even notice a problem when I commute on one of my bikes with 23s.


Interesting. Most of the road I ride on are the suck. And with town budgets down everywhere around me, they won't be getting better any time soon - hence my interest in 28mm tires (and a Ti Frame some time this summer).


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## mtbbmet

Guntrainer said:


> I rode on a lot of hilly, curvy rides before I moved away, and 28's were great. VERY stable, no flats, and when pumped up to a near max pressure, very fast.


This completely defeats the purpose of running larger tires.
The main benefit of a larger tire is that it can be run at a lower pressure, offering a more comfortable ride, and often a faster ride. Hard tires are slow. It's a fact. Under no real-world circumstances is a tire pumped to maximum pressure faster than a properly inflated tires. 
I have a set of Challenge Roubaix 27's, I pump them up to 80psi frt, & 90psi rr max, I'm 170#. They are plush as hell.


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## teleguy57

mtbbmet, how do the Challenges measure out? I've read other places they're more like 28 than 27. Would like to try a pair but nervous they'll rub on my fork, rear wishbone stay.


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## RussellS

dot said:


> are you sure? my GP 4 season 700x25 weigh 252 and 262g and are ~25.5mm wide. You're probably talking about 25mm version.
> 
> PS I've never seen a conti tyre to weigh less than claimed, from my MTB experience.


Once again, my 700x28 Continental Grand Prix 4 Season tires measure 26mm wide. Fully inflated of course.

Go here and read the weights for Continental Grand Prix 4 Season tires. 23, 25, and 28mm. All of the 2010 listings shown are ones I submitted. Bought a large amount of tires last year. Apparently you somehow got very heavy 25mm tires. The 14 25mm tires I bought averaged 227 grams.
http://weightweenies.starbike.com/listings/components.php?type=roadtyres


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## Guntrainer

According to testing by machines, not opinions by riders, bigger tires are faster than smaller tires. The 25's at 120 lbs ride better, are faster, and are more stable than 23's at 130 lbs. I weigh 165 lbs. Clydes will have different needs and results.

The 28's at 100 lbs were plush AND fast. Stable is the word. I had a 53X11 drive train on the older bike with the 28's. The gears, Aero bars, and good shape/light weight would make that bike FLY.

Any losses I may have had on the flats (I did not notice any losses) were more than made up on curves (this I noticed). 

I have already ordered Vitt 25's for this season, but I tend to ride on a US Forest Service Road system, the Natchez Trace. Great road, no commercial traffic, little traffic, period, most days.

My Vitt 25's measure 25mm on my rims. YMMV.


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## MrRogers

mtbbmet said:


> This completely defeats the purpose of running larger tires.
> The main benefit of a larger tire is that it can be run at a lower pressure, offering a more comfortable ride, and often a faster ride. Hard tires are slow. It's a fact. Under no real-world circumstances is a tire pumped to maximum pressure faster than a properly inflated tires.


 Ok, I'm confused. I always figured smaller tire and higher pressure = smaller contact patch and thus less rolling resistance. 

Anecdotally, this has always been my experience as well. 
MrR


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## dot

RussellS said:


> Once again, my 700x28 Continental Grand Prix 4 Season tires measure 26mm wide. Fully inflated of course.
> 
> Go here and read the weights for Continental Grand Prix 4 Season tires. 23, 25, and 28mm. All of the 2010 listings shown are ones I submitted. Bought a large amount of tires last year. Apparently you somehow got very heavy 25mm tires. The 14 25mm tires I bought averaged 227 grams.
> http://weightweenies.starbike.com/listings/components.php?type=roadtyres


I'll have to retest my scales then or I'm a loser. All of the conties I've got are heavy. My GP4000s 700x23 weight close to 235g. And all the stuff I put on these scales give quite correct readings except the conties.


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## AJL

MrRogers said:


> Ok, I'm confused. I always figured smaller tire and higher pressure = smaller contact patch and thus less rolling resistance.
> 
> Anecdotally, this has always been my experience as well.
> MrR


The contact patch on wider tires is wider (better cornering) but thinner (less forward rolling resistance).


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## Vibe

Well guys, I just pulled the trigger on the 2010 Schwinn LeTour Super which comes with Conti 700x28 tires!

Can't wait!


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## mtbbmet

MrRogers said:


> Ok, I'm confused. I always figured smaller tire and higher pressure = smaller contact patch and thus less rolling resistance.
> 
> Anecdotally, this has always been my experience as well.
> MrR


Contact surface area size play a very small part in rolling resistance. Tire casing (and to a certain extent, tube) suppleness play a much larger role. The easier it is for the tire to absorb shocks and vibrations, the lower rolling resistance will be. Hard narrow tires FEEL faster, but in reality, they are not. Instead of the tires casing absorbing the impact, an over inflated tire will pass the impact on to the bike and rider. It takes a hell of a lot more forward energy absorbing all those little bumps by the rider and bike than it does to have the tire do it. There are countless studies out there on wider tires, rolling resistance, and proper inflation pressures, and the myth that more pressure is better. You should google it and read them. The main point is that in 99% of situations, a 25 tire @ 90psi had much less rolling resistance than a 23 @ 110psi. It should be noted that Latex tubes, besides being much lighter, offer a 10% rolling resistance benefit over butyl tubes.
Read this,

http://www.cyclingnews.com/features/tech-feature-the-work-of-wheel-energy

And I have not measured the Roubaix's, but I would be shocked if they are not 28. They are fat. I just put some Vittoria EVO 25's on my Hed Ardennes SL. I have not measured those either, but my guess would be 26 @ min.


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## dmurphey

*The coolness of 28's*

I love fatter road tires and cush for all around road biking. I have used Vittoria Open Corso CX 25's, and they do not live long, but ride well. I have used Continue Grand Prix 28's and they are great for pavement and light gravel. I settled on Continue GP 4000S's for pure road use, as they are grippy, light, tough, and have less inertia to spin up than the 28's. I switch to the Conti 28's when the going gets tougher.


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## PlatyPius

Vibe said:


> Well guys, *I just pulled the trigger* on the 2010 Schwinn LeTour Super which comes with Conti 700x28 tires!
> 
> Can't wait!


Did you hit it? Is it dead? Did it shatter?


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## Vibe

haha

anyway, it'll be here Monday!


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## Vibe

What psi do you guys recommend I inflate my 28mm tires to?

I have it between 95-100psi right now..


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## Mike T.

Vibe said:


> What psi do you guys recommend I inflate my 28mm tires to?
> I have it between 95-100psi right now..


100 would be too much for me (@170lbs). Try 80-90.


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## Vibe

Thanks, I'm at 150lbs, I'll try that.


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## mattotoole

In Bike Tech Review's latest rolling resistance report, the Bontrager Select 28mm was as fast as many of the acknowledged fastest tires. This is a utilitarian tire that comes on entry level road bikes, and has a list price under $20. I bet a lot of riders "upgrade" these immediately -- with something slower!

To answer the original question, a fatter tire is definitely less likely to get pinch flats, but puncture resistance depends on the individual tire model.


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## rmsmith

Vibe said:


> Anyone here ride with 28c and can tell me how often they get flats?


I have a custom made frame with 57-mm long reach brakes, so the Continental Grand Prix 4 Season in 700c X 28-mm mounted on DT Swiss TK-540 touring rims easily fit with fenders. The 28-mm tires roll nicely over chip seal road beds, and I also use Mr Tuffy liners since I live in goat head country, and I've never had a puncture flat yet.


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## Shiftracer

OK, just joining this post a bit late, but it should be noted that the studies done at Wheel Energy and elsewhere are done on a steel drum. While their results apparently accurate, there is another real-world factor that they can't measure on a drum: Wind resistance. Fatter tires have more aerodynamic drag. It takes a sophisticated study and some calculations to figure out where the tipping point is where the lower rolling resistance of a wider tire is negated by the increased wind resistance. Complicating the matter further, lower pressures DO increase rolling resistance. Of course that's just purely energy exerted. None of that takes into account the reality that skinnier tires at high pressures, as mentioned above, also transfer more shock to the rider, causing fatigue. While I know of no studies that document that, I'm pretty sure everyone here who's ridden 20C's at 120 psi would agree.


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## Kerry Irons

*Suspension losses*



Shiftracer said:


> Complicating the matter further, lower pressures DO increase rolling resistance. Of course that's just purely energy exerted. None of that takes into account the reality that skinnier tires at high pressures, as mentioned above, also transfer more shock to the rider, causing fatigue.


You are confusing effects. When shocks from the too-hard tire are transmitted to the rider, energy is indeed lost. These are called suspesion losses and it comes from the tire bouncing up rather than conforming to road surface roughness. It is not rider fatigue that is the issue but that the energy goes to jiggle the rider rather than moving the bike forward. A harder tire means lower hysterisis (flex of casing and tread rubber) losses, but it is the combination of hysterisis and suspension losses that need to be understood when saying one tire "rolls faster" than another. Rider fatigue is ANOTHER reason to lower tire pressures, but rider fatigue is not the same thing as rolling resistance.


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## Shiftracer

Kerry, apparently I wasn't clear. When I said "Complicating the matter further, lower pressures DO increase rolling resistance. Of course that's just purely energy exerted. None of that takes into account the reality that skinnier tires at high pressures, as mentioned above, also transfer more shock to the rider, causing fatigue", I didn't intend to imply that rider fatigue was directly related to rolling resistance.


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## QQUIKM3

*Why not. .*



Vibe said:


> So I keep seeing 23vs25 but what about 28c?


Mountain bike tires?


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## Shiftracer

I don't know of any current studies measuring 23C vs 25C vs 28C, but I do know some are planned. I'll see if I can get them published once complete.


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## Zalenski

Vibe said:


> Thanks, I'm at 150lbs, I'll try that.


Any updates on those 28c tyres?


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## mattotoole

Shiftracer said:


> I don't know of any current studies measuring 23C vs 25C vs 28C, but I do know some are planned. I'll see if I can get them published once complete.


Bicycle Quarterly has a bunch of stuff on tires, especially fatter vs. skinnier tires.


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## nhluhr

Mike T. said:


> My "28mm" Continental Grand Prix 4 Season measure exactly 26mm and are 253 grams on my scale.


How long have you ridden them and when did you last measure them? Mine were 26.x when I first got them and now they are close to 27.5. That's at around 70psi.


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## mattotoole

nhluhr said:


> How long have you ridden them and when did you last measure them? Mine were 26.x when I first got them and now they are close to 27.5. That's at around 70psi.


It's normal for new tires to expand a mm or two after being ridden awhile.


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## rider9

I just bought some Panaracer 700cX28s and put them on my fixed gear bike. I like them. I haven't measured their actual width yet.

I inflated them to 100 psi and they are fine at that pressure. I am a clyde (220 #s).


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## nhluhr

mattotoole said:


> It's normal for new tires to expand a mm or two after being ridden awhile.


Exactly, which is why I asked when he measured... although seeing this is an old thread, probably won't get a response.


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## David Loving

Bontrager 28s fit my CAAD5 triple, with a little clearance grinding on the rear brake mount cross-stay. Never used these brand tires before - got them at my LBS - I've always been a Conti snob. They seem to be good tires and a good value.


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