# Steve Bauer's Merckx...



## aptivaboy

http://cgi.ebay.com/53cm-Eddy-Merck...30506663849?pt=Road_Bikes&hash=item4cf3bb77a9

Anyway, that's what the seller claims. It does look like a Reynolds 753 frame judging from the seatstay to lug join - they look just like my Gran Prix's. Others may know more, though. It is interesting that the bike lacks chrome. I guess Eddy had gone away from chroming by 1990-91?

No relation or interest with the seller - I just aw it and thought I'd pass it on if someone on the board has the bucks to afford it. 

Robert


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## velomateo

Not that it isn't valuable - I just don't believe he's going to get any takers at 6K.


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## aptivaboy

I would agree. I see that a lot on Ebay. There's what a frame is worth, and then there's what the seller thinks its worth.


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## HigherGround

I agree. Sadly, it would probably fit me well. I have short legs and a long torso. I also live near Philly. But there's no way I'd shell out 6 grand for that. I'd get a custom Spectrum ti frameset with money left over instead.


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## rubbersoul

That's crazy...Motorola rode on Dura ace, not campy.


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## latman

and never clinchers either !


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## Doctor Falsetti

If it was this bike maybe.....


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## texbike

latman said:


> and never clinchers either !


Not true. I've had three Motorola team bikes and each of them has had Motorola-labeled Mavic clinchers as delivered. They may have been used for training vs. actual races, but they were definitely clinchers.

Texbike


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## Aaron O

Hi Folks,

The bike is mine. I'm sorry if you don't like the price, but you need to understand what value means. I would rather have this bike than $5,000. I'd rather have 6,000 than the bike. It's that simple...it's worth around 6,000 to me, so I won't sell it for much less. I don't really care if it sells, I'm not desperate and not in a rush. You can talk about being able to get a ti spectrum instead, and you could get a frame at that price...but it wouldn't have been raced by steve bauer and it wouldn't be a Reynolds 753 Merckx...of which there are very few. Decent condition "standard" Merckx bikes sell for 1,500...is this 4 times more rare and special? I think so. If you don't, that's your prerogative, and I'll still enjoy riding it.


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## Aaron O

By the way...I have a Tom Kellog Merlin...one of the older Mass. builts...and it's the fastest, most wonderful bike I own with the possible exception of the Richard Sachs.


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## Dave Hickey

Aaron O said:


> Hi Folks,
> 
> The bike is mine. I'm sorry if you don't like the price, but you need to understand what value means. I would rather have this bike than $5,000. I'd rather have 6,000 than the bike. It's that simple...it's worth around 6,000 to me, so I won't sell it for much less. I don't really care if it sells, I'm not desperate and not in a rush. You can talk about being able to get a ti spectrum instead, and you could get a frame at that price...but it wouldn't have been raced by steve bauer and it wouldn't be a Reynolds 753 Merckx...of which there are very few. Decent condition "standard" Merckx bikes sell for 1,500...is this 4 times more rare and special? I think so. If you don't, that's your prerogative, and I'll still enjoy riding it.



Did you buy the bike complete or just a frameset.. I have no doubt that's Bauer's frame but Campy on a Motorola frame?


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## Aaron O

I bought it complete and debated changing out to Dura Ace...I elected to leave it with its Campy record for a simple reason...it works better. 8sp STI was crap compared with Ergo...actually all STI has been crap compared to Ergo and I'd never voluntarily downgrade from Campagnolo to Shimano. Is it original? No. Does it ride better? Yes. The Delta brakes on this bike would sell for enough to cover most of the Dura Ace replacement if someone really wanted to go that route.

I didn't buy this bike...I traded for it...a 2008 Kona JTS. Very long story, which has been told online else where. I received it with a LOT of work needed. Some brainiac put shimano cables through the ergo levers...it was missing a delta cover plate...wheels were torched...it took a lot of time and money ti fix.


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## HigherGround

Hi Aaron,

Thanks for posting here. It seems that you have quite an enviable stable of bikes. I hope my comments above didn't come across as disrespectful, as that was not my intent. Instead, I think it's a good example of how people can have similar interests but differing priorities. There's no doubt that it certainly is a very cool bike, and very rare. I'm a big fan of the North Americans who were racing in Europe for 7-Eleven, La Vie Claire, and Motorola in the 80's and 90's. In fact, I'm hoping that there's a La Vie Claire jersey under the Christmas tree for me in the morning!

On one hand, it is cool that it is (was) Steve Bauer's bike and a piece of history. On the other hand, I figure that every product has a finite life span. Any bike that a pro like Bauer has powered over the cobbles and up the mountains during a year in Europe has taken more of a beating than I would dish out in five years or more. To my frugal way of thinking, I'd rather put that money toward something that was custom made to my measurements, and that would have much more of it's usable life intact; in this case something new. 

Having said all that, when something speaks to you, it speaks to you. When I had the chance to get a new, blood red MX Leader with a chrome chainstay a few years ago, it was a no brainer. Sure, it's not the lightest or custom made to order for me. However, I have always loved that paint scheme, and I wanted something stiffer than my Litespeed Classic. I knew if I didn't jump on that opportunity, I'd be kicking myself for a long time about "the one that got away". 

I hope there's a buyer out there who will look at your Merckx the same way. Heck, hopefully several, so there's a bidding war! It's just not for me, but I wish you luck with the auction.


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## Aaron O

*Merckx*

I wasn't offended, I'm simply explaining my reasoning. I'm not trying to debate anyone's opinion on the bike's value, I'm just explaining why I gave that number and how I feel about the bike. The Merckx isn't my favorite bike to ride and I'm certainly not arguing that it's the perfect bike for everyone. I'll say that I think it's far more rare and special than pretty much any custom you could get, but I agree it wouldn't be as good a rider. It all depends on your motivation, this is more of a collector's piece I think. In other words, I think it's an apples to oranges comparison. To be perfectly blunt, part of why I put it up for sale was to get offers to help establish insurance value...I'm not exactly a motivated seller. I agree it's a lot of money to ask. It just comes down to what it's worth to me...and that's a fair bit. 

As far as it being ridden hard, there's no question in my mind that it was...at the same time, it's a steel bike...and part of the beauty of steel bikes is that they don't suffer from much of a fatigue factor. There isn't damage to the frame or fork (I've had both thoroughly checked out) and I don't think being ridden hard really kills its shelf life. If it were carbon, or aluminum, I'd be more inclined to agree. THere are no stress signs at all. I will say that everything I've read about Reynolds 753 scares me a little...I've put on a fair bit of weight and feel that I'm too big to be safely riding a 753 frame. I rarely ride the Merckx, and when I do...I go easy.

How do you like the MX leader? I'm about a week-two weeks away from having what will probably be my last bike built up...a custom made MAX Marnati. The MX Leader stuff was pretty similar to the MAX stuff...a touch lighter. I'm not a weight weenie, and I have my light weight bike as is...the Merlin. That bike comes in at about 18-19 pounds, and I could easily make it lighter by changing out the wheels and using a lighter saddle. To me, a sub-20 pound is ridiculously light.

To the person who mentioned Spectrum...I recently saw parts (most was wrapped) of a steel spectrum with gold leaf on the seat stays. I didn't see much of it, but what I did see was gorgeous! IF I ever get another custom, it would either be a Bilenky if I went steel or spectrum if I want ti.


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## jet sanchEz

Hi Aaron

This is a very interesting topic to me as I have a team bike as well, Olaf Ludwig's Team Telekom Corsa Extra. I have no reason to doubt it's authenticity but I wondered what y'all think the components should be? Right now it has an 8-speed Campy group on it


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## Aaron O

Personally, I'd leave the Campy 8sp on if you ride it at all. I'm not sure what the appropriate group would be, though likely Shitmano. I don't think original group matters unless you intend to sell it, and you could always buy the right parts later.


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## texbike

jet sanchEz said:


> Hi Aaron
> 
> This is a very interesting topic to me as I have a team bike as well, Olaf Ludwig's Team Telekom Corsa Extra. I have no reason to doubt it's authenticity but I wondered what y'all think the components should be? Right now it has an 8-speed Campy group on it


The Motorola Team used Shimano Dura Ace 8 speed groups (damn good stuff!) and the Telekom Team used Campy Record 8 speed groups (damn good stuff!). The parts on your bike look correct from the pictures.

As an FYI, this bike looks like an MX Leader to me regardless of what the top tube decal states. At the very least, it has a MX Leader fork on it. I'd love to see close-ups of the headtube/downtube junction, and a side shot of the non-drive side chainstay to confirm what model it is.

I have two team issue MX Leaders (a Telekom bike and a Motorola bike) and they are both great machines. I've had 2 others in the past (both were Motorolas). Three of the four were/are pristine or very close to it. Unfortunately none of them would have come close to bringing $6K. 

If anyone is interested, I'll sell my two remaining team issue MXLs for $6K for the pair!  Anyone, anyone? Bueller, Bueller? What, no takers? How about $4K for the pair? No? Ahhh, okay. Maybe $3K for the pair is more realistic?

Texbike


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## Aaron O

Having used Shimano 8sp STI, I assure you it's more fragile, has absolute garbage front trim and is less comfortable in the hand. The rear does shift smoothly.

I agree with the above poster that the Telekom frame looks like MX Leader or MAX to me. 

Like I said, I'm perfectly happy keeping the bike and expect to keep the bike. It's worth that to me. If you think it's too much, don't buy it...but criticizing the value I assign it to myself is plain silly. I don't care what others think it's worth, the relevant amount is what it's worth to me. It's not a bike I need to sell or am flipping for profit, I'm perfectly happy keeping it. Think it's over priced? Don't buy it. I'm perfectly happy keeping it.

Frankly I think you have a lot of nerve questioning someone's price. I have been completely up front about what the bike is, condition..etc. I have given potential buyers plenty of information to make an informed decision. If they chose to think it's over priced, I'm fine with that...and will keep it. If someone wants it, that's the price. End of story. I don't care if you agree, I don't care how you assign the values of your bikes and I don't really care if it sells. As said earlier, I'm more interested in establishing insurance value than I am selling it. 

If someone offers me an outrageous amount of money, I'll sell. If not, I'll keep it. Would I spend that for it? NO...I wouldn't...but I won't sell it for less and am perfectly happy keeping it. It's also nearly impossible to establish value on a bike like this...which truly is a near one of a kind peace. It's not like a good condition MX leader...generic...which you know is worth about a grand. As stated earlier, is this many times more rare, valuable and interesting to me than an MX leader? Yes. I think it's worth far more. If the market disagrees...and it probably will...I'm fine with that. What you fail to grasp is that I'm perfectly happy keeping it.

By the way...I'd pay 3grand for a pair of Merckx team bikes if I had the cash...which I currently don't. My available bike funds all went into a custom MAX Marnati with a Campy 11sp group. If that's all those bikes are worth to you, you must be more desperate for cash than I am.

PS...a Reynolds 753 frame is far more interesting and rare than an MX leader. Also, you didn't state what or who rode your bikes. If they're generic team bikes, they're less valuable to a collector.


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## texbike

Aaron O said:


> Having used Shimano 8sp STI, I assure you it's more fragile, has absolute garbage front trim and is less comfortable in the hand. The rear does shift smoothly.
> 
> I agree with the above poster that the Telekom frame looks like MX Leader or MAX to me.
> 
> Like I said, I'm perfectly happy keeping the bike and expect to keep the bike. It's worth that to me. If you think it's too much, don't buy it...but criticizing the value I assign it to myself is plain silly. I don't care what others think it's worth, the relevant amount is what it's worth to me. It's not a bike I need to sell or am flipping for profit, I'm perfectly happy keeping it. Think it's over priced? Don't buy it. I'm perfectly happy keeping it.
> 
> Frankly I think you have a lot of nerve questioning someone's price. I have been completely up front about what the bike is, condition..etc. I have given potential buyers plenty of information to make an informed decision. If they chose to think it's over priced, I'm fine with that...and will keep it. If someone wants it, that's the price. End of story. I don't care if you agree, I don't care how you assign the values of your bikes and I don't really care if it sells. As said earlier, I'm more interested in establishing insurance value than I am selling it.
> 
> If someone offers me an outrageous amount of money, I'll sell. If not, I'll keep it. Would I spend that for it? NO...I wouldn't...but I won't sell it for less and am perfectly happy keeping it. It's also nearly impossible to establish value on a bike like this...which truly is a near one of a kind peace. It's not like a good condition MX leader...generic...which you know is worth about a grand. As stated earlier, is this many times more rare, valuable and interesting to me than an MX leader? Yes. I think it's worth far more. If the market disagrees...and it probably will...I'm fine with that. What you fail to grasp is that I'm perfectly happy keeping it.
> 
> By the way...I'd pay 3grand for a pair of Merckx team bikes if I had the cash...which I currently don't. My available bike funds all went into a custom MAX Marnati with a Campy 11sp group. If that's all those bikes are worth to you, you must be more desperate for cash than I am.
> 
> PS...a Reynolds 753 frame is far more interesting and rare than an MX leader. Also, you didn't state what or who rode your bikes. If they're generic team bikes, they're less valuable to a collector.


A bit defensive here, eh??? Did I hit a nerve? 

Okay, in no particular order....

#1 7400 Dura Ace is fragile? My experience would speak otherwise. I've used the groupset as one of my staples for over 15 years with an amount of miles that I can't even begin to put a number on. During that time period I've had to repack a BB once and had a broken shifter cable. I would say that speaks volumes to the fragility of the groupset. How does that compare to Campy? I honestly don't know and I don't think that you do either. If you do, please feel free to provide some evidence that proves otherwise.

#2 Is 753 more interesting, rare, and valuable than a MX Leader? Are there fewer 753 bikes around than MX Leaders? Yes. Is 753 more interesting or valuable? I'm not so sure. I would say that given the prices paid for MX Leaders vs. 753 tubed Merckxs over the past couple of years, the market seems to think that MX Leaders are more interesting. If you disagree, show me a 753 Merckx sale that has surpassed the sales price of a MX Leader (other than the ex-Hampsten bike that sold in 2008. See the reference in #3). I think sales are a relevant judge of the perceived value by the public.

#3 As far as value assigned to my bikes, I'm using ACTUAL points of reference on Team-issued bikes that have sold or not sold over the past four years. The bikes that I sold in the past year belonged to Kevin Livingston and Gord Fraser. Both were in fantastic shape and all original. Neither of them brought more than $2K. Another Steve Bauer Motorola bike (a 1995 MXL) sold in mid 2009 for less than $2K. A NOS Motorola Ti frameset that was built for Andy Hampsten (arguably more famous than Bauer, Livingston, or Fraser) was for sale in Wisconsin without any takers for more than 2 years (priced at $2K). As far as I know it is still for sale. In 2008 a Motorola bike that is rumored to have been THE bike that Hampsten won the Alpe D' Huez stage on in 1992 sold for $6300. It was all original and in great shape. It can be seen on the SpeedBicycles website. That bike had provenance and 2008 was a different time. There is currently a Motorola MXL in Atlanta that has been for sale for over a year now. It belonged to a less famed rider but is in incredible condition. The price? $1700. As for the two bikes that I currently own, they belonged to lesser known riders (Bruno Thibout and Udo Boltz). Neither set the world on fire. As it is, I wouldn't expect the value of either bike to be over $1200-$1400 each. The Telekom bike is minty, the Motorola bike, not so much.... 

So, that is where I'm drawing my values from. Where are you drawing yours from?

#3 As far as being desperate for cash, I wouldn't say that is it. I'm just willing to accept the reality of what the market value of my bikes are. I don't see selling them anytime soon. They're great bikes and I enjoy riding them.

#4 I'm glad that you like your bike and are cool with keeping it. It's a neat machine and at that price, you will have it for a while.

#5 I don't mean to be disrespectful, but if you post your goods in a public domain (ebay), you can't expect to not have comments made publicly if the sales price is out of line (either too high OR low).

#5 Your Marnati sounds like a cool bike. 

Bests...

Texbike


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## Aaron O

*Merckx*

You didn't hit a nerve, I just think you're being obnoxious and am explaining why your comments are inappropriate, out of line and silly. You are being disrespectful and rude. 

I've explained my position. I am not a motivated seller, I've been completely forthright about how I formulated my price and I've explained exactly why I'm charging what I'm charging. I've seen plenty of CL and ebay prices and have never felt the need to comment on someone else's asking price...because unless I'm buying, it's not my concern. In short, you're acting like a craigslist RE poster. Unless I've been dishonest, it really isn't your concern.

If you sold your team bikes for that price, I frankly think you're short sighted and will regret it in several years. I have not followed the market on Team bikes and there just aren't very many of them I've seen that ever come up for sale. I'm formulating my price on what I think it's worth compared to standard Merckx bikes and scarcity. Markets also change...I'd wager that in 20-30 years a real team bike will not have roughly equal value to a standard MX bike. I'd wager a 753 frame will be worth more than the more common MX leader frames. If the market disagrees with my pricing, it won't sell. As stated on multiple occasions, I'm fine with that. If you're willing to sell your team Merckx bikes for the same thing a standard Merckx sells for...be my guest. I won't. 

Do I think I'm charging a lot, and more than I'd be willing to pay? Yes. It cost 50 cents to post that ad...and it was well worth it considering some of the people I got to talk to posting the bike. I've seen that Hampsten and I agree that my bike is not on par with it on value. Do I think you're right on current market value? Probably...but I'm asking my value for the bike. If the market disagrees, and I agree that it will...I'll keep it. Either way, whining about the price or criticizing it...seems flat out rude to me. There are a ton of optimistic and out of line BIN prices on ebay...and every now and than someone who isn't as interested in getting top value will pay for them.


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## texbike

Aaron O said:


> You didn't hit a nerve, I just think you're being obnoxious and am explaining why your comments are inappropriate, out of line and silly. You are being disrespectful and rude.
> 
> I've explained my position. I am not a motivated seller, I've been completely forthright about how I formulated my price and I've explained exactly why I'm charging what I'm charging. I've seen plenty of CL and ebay prices and have never felt the need to comment on someone else's asking price...because unless I'm buying, it's not my concern. In short, you're acting like a craigslist RE poster. Unless I've been dishonest, it really isn't your concern.
> 
> If you sold your team bikes for that price, I frankly think you're short sighted and will regret it in several years. I have not followed the market on Team bikes and there just aren't very many of them I've seen that ever come up for sale. I'm formulating my price on what I think it's worth compared to standard Merckx bikes and scarcity. Markets also change...I'd wager that in 20-30 years a real team bike will not have roughly equal value to a standard MX bike. I'd wager a 753 frame will be worth more than the more common MX leader frames. If the market disagrees with my pricing, it won't sell. As stated on multiple occasions, I'm fine with that. If you're willing to sell your team Merckx bikes for the same thing a standard Merckx sells for...be my guest. I won't.
> 
> Do I think I'm charging a lot, and more than I'd be willing to pay? Yes. It cost 50 cents to post that ad...and it was well worth it considering some of the people I got to talk to posting the bike. I've seen that Hampsten and I agree that my bike is not on par with it on value. Do I think you're right on current market value? Probably...but I'm asking my value for the bike. If the market disagrees, and I agree that it will...I'll keep it. Either way, whining about the price or criticizing it...seems flat out rude to me. There are a ton of optimistic and out of line BIN prices on ebay...and every now and than someone who isn't as interested in getting top value will pay for them.


Obnoxious, inappropriate, disrespectful, and rude? That's open for debate. I guess we can all have our opinions and you know what they say about those...

As for being out of line, I was trying to provide a few data points that you may not be aware of (since it doesn't sound like you have a lengthy background with these bikes-less than a year?). My examples are concrete data points that could help provide a semblance of actual market value. It's hard to predict what bike values will look like in 30 years but I would agree with your assumption that the Team bikes will be worth more from a collectors perspective than your run of the mill, standard issue Merckx in the future. However, we're talking the present here. As for 753, it is slowly disappearing into the ether. It's a stock that I would be willing to short. It's cool stuff, but it doesn't have the reputation or the mythic cult following that Max tubes have. You should know this. I would bet that you bought your MAX Marnati based off of the hype.

Let's be clear, I'm not whining about the price of your bike. In all honesty, I would LOVE to see your bike sell for $6K. It would provide a higher sales price for me to use as a reference point if I were to decide to sell my bikes in the future.

As for it being my concern, maybe it isn't. However, it is my right to post comments.

I'll step out of this for now. As it is my right to post my comments, it is your right to post ANY price that you want for a good that you want to sell.

Good luck with your sale. I do truly hope that you either get the price you want or enjoy the bike in good health.

Texbike


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## Aaron O

I wasn't aware of those data points and I absolutely agree that my asking price, based on that data, is out of line with the market. I do appreciate you helping me to establish current value. I'm still not accepting anything close to those prices...because I think the market you describe is irrational and will eventually self correct with supply and demand. Let's keep in mind that the people who grew up deifying those bikes are about 40ish now, and when they retire and really hit mid-life crises point, I suspect prices will start climbing. Remember when Paramounts were selling for $200 in the late 80s? To me it's similar.

I disagree that MAX and MX-1 has more cult status than 753...at least over all. I think it might be more desirable, for now, in the Merckx market because so few 753 Merckx's exist! I think people just aren't aware of it and that leads to not having a hot market...sort of like how Colnagos sell for more than some better brands because there are more of them. Overall, the 753 stuff does have a hot following, similar to MAX and mx leader tubing. The Team Raleigh stuff popularized it and it has that "special certification" status. I think long range the 753s will be far more desirable from a supply and demand perspective...they were also lighter...and weight weenieism is still prevalent. The Hampsten you mentioned is 753 btw.

I went with the MAX tubing because my frame builder suggested it based on weight and ride style. It was his input, not mine. I'd probably have gone for Reynolds 953. The 753 scares me given it's ultra thin tubing...though I find it more stiff than the slightly thicker 531db stuff. To be totally blunt, my Merckx is not my favorite rider.

Let's agree that we both hope prices go up for these and that the current market is under valuing them based on supply and demand. It simply isn't rational for a team bike, of which there are so few, to sell for similar amounts to far more common Merckxs. Let's be honest here, there are a TON of Merckx MX-1s out there. You can ALWAYS find one on ebay. How often does a real team bike come up for sale? Once or twice a year?


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## rubbersoul

Bottom line is Bauer rode Shimano D/A. My 9 speed D A is still rock solid and butter smooth.

Early Campy Ergo sucks


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## Aaron O

I think you're out of your mind. I know some of this is preference...but Ergos can be rebuilt, DA 9sp can't...and I've gone through two DA 9sp shifters on two different bikes in the past 3 years. The trim on DA is outright horrendous...essentially non-existent. Campy Ergo 8sp has miles better trim, it's more durable, it looks better and it's just as smooth. I also like the shifting mechanism better than DA, but that's preference.

Bauer rode dura ace because shimano was paying teams to ride their stuff as marketing.


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## rubbersoul

exactly. point is someone would be outta their mind to pay for 6 grand for a poor attempt of a Motorola team bike passed off as Bauer's.

The past is gone, let it go


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## Aaron O

You'd also have to be out of your mind to whine about it when it's none of your business. In short, you're just a complaining wench who couldn't afford it if it were half market value. 

Since you clearly lacked the reading comprehension to take in the previous points, I'll dial it down to a level you might understand:

It's my bike. I'll ask as much as I want. It's a much cooler bike than you will ever get to ride. If you don't like the price, suck an egg.


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## rubbersoul

Dude, I've got the common sense not too waste money on trash.

What makes me laugh is your utter ineptitude as a salesman.

Good luck unloading that junk


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## Aaron O

Apparently you don't have the common sense to know the value of a 753 Reynolds frame raced by Steve Bauer...which is consistent with you clearly being a very young moron and not knowing enough about bikes to understand the weakness of STI. Perhaps after a few years of maturity, cycling and puberty you'll have a valid comment to make.

Good day.


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## rubbersoul

you are so angry... and delusional

fast forward to 2010, soon to be 2011 and Bauer's Spider tech team is still running Dura Ace.


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## pmf

Ah, a good old cat fight. 

Interesting reading guys. Campy vs. Shimano ....

Guess I find it hard to side with the guy trying to sell the over-priced relic. $6000 .... right :thumbsup: 

And we all know that the best Merckx frame was the Corsa 01.


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## Aaron O

Yawn...I'm sure it's easy for you to relate to the under brained ding bat with no sense of history.

Once again...my bike...my price...if the market disagrees, and it likely will, I'll gladly keep it. Paramounts used to sell for peanuts too...markets change. Am I asking a lot? Yep...because to me it's worth it. If someone wants it, that's the price. It's really none of your business and if you aren't intelligent enough to understand my prior comments, you won't get that either. I find it truly sad that people who know enough to buy a Merckx know so little about manners, decency and supply and demand. It really tales a lack of grey matter, testicular fortitude and decorum to whine about a bike's price anonymously on line.

The reason people don't talk about Reynolds 753 Merckx's is that there really aren't many to talk about. They pretty much weren't available to the hoi polloi. They took far more skill to work with than any other material of its time, they were by far the lightest steel bikes of their time and to those that know what they are, are more desirable. Being unknowing, ignorant, mouthy prats, you are of course unaware of it.

One thing for certain is that your CF plastic land fill fodder and cheap aluminum tin cans will never be worth much.


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## jet sanchEz

Is the Corsa 01 all that amazing? I have the option to buy one in my size but I wasn't sure...


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## Aaron O

Heya Sanchez...good seeing you here (Konaaron snake)...they're VERY nice bikes...but pretty much any Merckx is going to be a very nice bike. It's the De Rosa influenced geometry, the attention to detail...they're just great bikes.


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## rubbersoul

Aaron O said:


> Yawn...I'm sure it's easy for you to relate to the under brained ding bat with no sense of history.
> 
> Once again...my bike...my price...if the market disagrees, and it likely will, I'll gladly keep it. Paramounts used to sell for peanuts too...markets change. Am I asking a lot? Yep...because to me it's worth it. If someone wants it, that's the price. It's really none of your business and if you aren't intelligent enough to understand my prior comments, you won't get that either. I find it truly sad that people who know enough to buy a Merckx know so little about manners, decency and supply and demand. It really tales a lack of grey matter, testicular fortitude and decorum to whine about a bike's price anonymously on line.
> 
> The reason people don't talk about Reynolds 753 Merckx's is that there really aren't many to talk about. They pretty much weren't available to the hoi polloi. They took far more skill to work with than any other material of its time, they were by far the lightest steel bikes of their time and to those that know what they are, are more desirable. Being unknowing, ignorant, mouthy prats, you are of course unaware of it.
> 
> One thing for certain is that your CF plastic land fill fodder and cheap aluminum tin cans will never be worth much.



A delusional hypocritical midget spouting off weak attempts at insults while spewing some non sequitors about manners... you my friend are the one logically, historically (and vertically) challenged, not I. 

To be clear, and for the last time, Motorola ran Dura ace, not campy and won a lot of races on it,despite your babbling of how poor it is. If a cycling aficionado wishes to retain a piece of history, at least have the decency to sell the real deal, and not some weak cobbled attempt from the used parts bin. I'm not arguing your delusional asking price, rather the authenticity of it given your claim it was Steve Bauer's bike.


----------



## gomango

jet sanchEz said:


> Is the Corsa 01 all that amazing? I have the option to buy one in my size but I wasn't sure...



They are to me. That was/is a nice frameset.

Whatch'a find Jet? Good after "Holiday" pricing I hope. There are so many deals floating, now is a good time to watch for a fire sale.

...and guys, I suggest a truce on this Bauer Merckx matter.

Just let her slide into post obscurity....


----------



## Aaron O

Moron...since you apparently haven't read the ad, or any of the posts here...I'M WELL AWARE MOTOROLA WAS SPONSORED BY SHIMANO. I wrote it in the ad and explained why I kept it Campy. I explained it here three times. Try reading before you prattle off. That parts bin Campy group contains panto delta brakes. DO you know what those are? Do you know what they sell for? Do you have any idea what 1st gen ergo levers sell for? Try about triple a Shitmano group. If I wanted it as a dura ace bike, i'd build it that way. That parts bin c-record seatpost sells for more than Dura Ace derailleurs and calipers combined.

I received this bike this way you numb brained loud mouthed jack ass. Had you read the posts you'd know that. I kept it with Campy because it works better. What part of this don't you get? It was stated in the ad and here several times. If you;re going to criticize someone else's sale...and if you're a big enough jack ass to do that...and you are...read what they write. 

As far as it being Bauer's bike, you obnoxious, ignorant putz, the factory confirmed it...it's apparent from the decal and anyone who knows about these bikes, which you don't, would know it's original sight only. In short if you bothered to study these bikes as much as you ran your ignorant vaginal mouth, you might actually know something.

The reason you are an ignorant, immature, rude putz is that you write without having any idea what you're prattling about. It takes a special breed of ass hole to criticize an on line sale...and you are that breed of ass hole. It takes a bigger breed of ass hole to call a Reynolds 753 bike trash. You, sir, are that ass hole. It takes an even larger breed of jack ass to criticize an ad they either didn't read or understand. You are that jack ass.

The simple truth is that in your entire ignorant life, you will never get to ride a bike half as interesting as this. You likely can't afford Campagnolo, so you criticize what you'll never experience. You are a sheep, a turd, a moron and a babbling buffoon. 

Have anything else to say? Instead of attempting to criticize something you don't understand, try riding bikes enough to know the difference between them.


----------



## Aaron O

Sorry gomango...this dude is a major league ignoramus and he's fun to insult. If he's going to criticize a bike in public, he's going to be held accountable for his idiocy.


----------



## texbike

Aaron O said:


> Moron...since you apparently haven't read the ad, or any of the posts here...I'M WELL AWARE MOTOROLA WAS SPONSORED BY SHIMANO. I wrote it in the ad and explained why I kept it Campy. I explained it here three times. Try reading before you prattle off. That parts bin Campy group contains panto delta brakes. DO you know what those are? Do you know what they sell for? Do you have any idea what 1st gen ergo levers sell for? Try about triple a Shitmano group. If I wanted it as a dura ace bike, i'd build it that way. That parts bin c-record seatpost sells for more than Dura Ace derailleurs and calipers combined.
> 
> I received this bike this way you numb brained loud mouthed jack ass. Had you read the posts you'd know that. I kept it with Campy because it works better. What part of this don't you get? It was stated in the ad and here several times. If you;re going to criticize someone else's sale...and if you're a big enough jack ass to do that...and you are...read what they write.
> 
> As far as it being Bauer's bike, you obnoxious, ignorant putz, the factory confirmed it...it's apparent from the decal and anyone who knows about these bikes, which you don't, would know it's original sight only. In short if you bothered to study these bikes as much as you ran your ignorant vaginal mouth, you might actually know something.
> 
> The reason you are an ignorant, immature, rude putz is that you write without having any idea what you're prattling about. It takes a special breed of ass hole to criticize an on line sale...and you are that breed of ass hole. It takes a bigger breed of ass hole to call a Reynolds 753 bike trash. You, sir, are that ass hole. It takes an even larger breed of jack ass to criticize an ad they either didn't read or understand. You are that jack ass.
> 
> The simple truth is that in your entire ignorant life, you will never get to ride a bike half as interesting as this. You likely can't afford Campagnolo, so you criticize what you'll never experience. You are a sheep, a turd, a moron and a babbling buffoon.
> 
> Have anything else to say? Instead of attempting to criticize something you don't understand, try riding bikes enough to know the difference between them.


Aaron, 

Seriously??? Are you really going to post stupid **** like this? How ****ing old are you??? 

Brother, you've got a cool bike but you've got some major mental problems to go with it.

You must be either really short and trying to overcompensate for it or have some major anger management issues (or both).

Do you feel vindicated now? Did you put him in his place?

The guy made some off the wall comments, but does it really require that kind of response? 

PS. The "ignorant vaginal mouth" comment was kind of creative. I'll give you that.

TXB


----------



## Aaron O

It probably was overboard, and arguing with anonymous on line toilet floaters is never a productive use of one's time, but I found it extremely irritating. I posted a unique, special bike for sale...it was frankly no one's business. Did I ask over market value? Sure...again...that's my concern. The initial comments here were respectful. A few weren't and I decided to respond. 

I resent the anonymous craigslist RE posts and this reminded me of that. I reacted angrily to, as you say, put him in his place. Was it the best course of action? Probably not...but it felt good at the time.

It didn't require that kind of response, or any response.


----------



## latman

texbike said:


> Not true. I've had three Motorola team bikes and each of them has had Motorola-labeled Mavic clinchers as delivered. They may have been used for training vs. actual races, but they were definitely clinchers.
> 
> Texbike


 Were'nt Motorola sponsored by Wolber ? so they would have used their (gentleman or TX profil) clincher rims and tires ? Unless someone bought a decal set later in which case you could stick Motorola labels on any rims you wanted.


----------



## pmf

I can't recall a more acrimonious thread on here -- and there's been some to remember. 

Aaron -- That bike caught my attention on ebay even before I saw this thread. If you really want to get that kind of money for it, you should put the correct period components on it. Whether or not Campy is better than Shimano is beside the point. Anyone willing to pay that kind of money for a bike that's probably been beaten to death by a pro rider probably is a collector, not a serious rider. 

I think most Merckx fans agree that the last steel frames he made from Deda zero uno and Columbus Max are the best ones, collectable or not. 

To everyone else -- don't feed the troll.


----------



## texbike

latman said:


> Were'nt Motorola sponsored by Wolber ? so they would have used their (gentleman or TX profil) clincher rims and tires ? Unless someone bought a decal set later in which case you could stick Motorola labels on any rims you wanted.


Latman,

That's a good point. Each of the Motorola team-issue bikes that I have had were from the 95/96 seasons. I'm not sure if Wolber was still a sponsor of the team then or not (the bikes were all original and didn't have Wolber stickers on them). What I do know is that the wheels on all three of them (except for the front wheel on one) used Mavic SSC (engraved in the rim) clincher rims. Each of the bikes was acquired from different individuals, from different parts of the country, and had no relation to one another. 

Three bikes is definitely a small sample size, but the random consistency across all three led to my conclusion.

TXB


----------



## Aaron O

I'm personally of the belief that tubing makes less difference than geometry and things like tires and saddle. Max is a little different because of the radical tubing departure, but I don't have anything useful to say since I haven't ridden it yet. I'll have a more informed opinion soon. I know that despite what you wrote, many riders and critics found MAX and MXL tubing to be over kill, too stiff and uncomfortable. I think at my weight and riding style, it's probably just fine. No tubing is inherently better than another...some are just suited more to specific purposes. Reynolds 753 is considerably lighter than MAX and would be better for hill stages...especially for a light weight pro rider.

I actually ride this bike. One of the beautiful parts about steel is that no matter how hard it was ridden, and this was clearly ridden, unless it bent, it's still fine to ride. I agree that it is a collector piece and the "proper" parts would be more desirable to a collector. A collector can also sell what's on there, buy the DA bits and have about $500 plus left over. 

If I were trying hard to sell the bike, I'd do as advised. As stated about 10 times now, I took a flier on selling it a high price for 50 cents. As stated about ten times now...I'm not that interested in selling it...certainly not intertested enough to change out the components. If it sells, as is, ok. If not...ok. I was more interested in getting offers to determine insurance value. I think the bike just isn't as valuable in today's market as I'd hoped. I think Text's prior posts establish that. I also think the market is in error...and will eventually correct.

As far as being a troll...I freely admit I've been agressive and insulting. When you anonymously criticize someone else's asking price on an on line sale, I think it's frankly very deserved. It's an extremely rude thing to do. Did I go over board? Sure. I was ticked. Before you start throwing out the world troll, I'd consider the behavior that some of you exhibited. I can honestly say it would never occur to me to call someone else's sale of a one of a kind bike delusional...or to call campy delta brakes with de rosa panto junk yard bin antique parts. In short...look in the mirror and ask yourselves how'd you feel if anonymous on line posters felt they had the standing to interject themselves into your online sale.

To those who offered helpful advice and insight, and respectful opinions, I offer my thanks.


----------



## Aaron O

If teams are willing to rebadge frames, and they clearly were, couldn't they conceievably also have rebadged rims? I'd think sticking some Wolber decals on a Mavic rim would be pretty simple. Also...as suggested earlier...I could easily see them having traning wheels built one way and race day wheels another.


----------



## zoikz

someone deserves to get kicked in the nads for putting those pedals on that bike.
the value in that bike is it's heritage, not in it's ride. It should be kept as close to original as possible and properly restored.
As it stands it's an eyesore. Half a step from fenders and a kickstand.


----------



## pmf

Aaron O said:


> I'm personally of the belief that tubing makes less difference than geometry and things like tires and saddle. Max is a little different because of the radical tubing departure, but I don't have anything useful to say since I haven't ridden it yet. I'll have a more informed opinion soon. I know that despite what you wrote, many riders and critics found MAX and MXL tubing to be over kill, too stiff and uncomfortable. I think at my weight and riding style, it's probably just fine. No tubing is inherently better than another...some are just suited more to specific purposes. Reynolds 753 is considerably lighter than MAX and would be better for hill stages...especially for a light weight pro rider.
> 
> I actually ride this bike. One of the beautiful parts about steel is that no matter how hard it was ridden, and this was clearly ridden, unless it bent, it's still fine to ride. I agree that it is a collector piece and the "proper" parts would be more desirable to a collector. A collector can also sell what's on there, buy the DA bits and have about $500 plus left over.
> 
> If I were trying hard to sell the bike, I'd do as advised. As stated about 10 times now, I took a flier on selling it a high price for 50 cents. As stated about ten times now...I'm not that interested in selling it...certainly not intertested enough to change out the components. If it sells, as is, ok. If not...ok. I was more interested in getting offers to determine insurance value. I think the bike just isn't as valuable in today's market as I'd hoped. I think Text's prior posts establish that. I also think the market is in error...and will eventually correct.
> 
> As far as being a troll...I freely admit I've been agressive and insulting. When you anonymously criticize someone else's asking price on an on line sale, I think it's frankly very deserved. It's an extremely rude thing to do. Did I go over board? Sure. I was ticked. Before you start throwing out the world troll, I'd consider the behavior that some of you exhibited. I can honestly say it would never occur to me to call someone else's sale of a one of a kind bike delusional...or to call campy delta brakes with de rosa panto junk yard bin antique parts. In short...look in the mirror and ask yourselves how'd you feel if anonymous on line posters felt they had the standing to interject themselves into your online sale.
> 
> To those who offered helpful advice and insight, and respectful opinions, I offer my thanks.


Let I be the first to bite his lip and not cast out a cheeseburger.


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## Aaron O

How noble...after you folks interject yourselves into a sale, and get slapped...you take the high road. Yawn. 

I didn't ask any of you for an opinion. I didn't post the bike to this forum. I'd heard from others that this site was dominated by people not worth interacting with. You folks decided to bring my bike up. You folks decided to comment. I responded in a very friendly way. I explained my actions. Some of you acted like turds, and rather unknowledgeable turds at that. You want to call me a troll? I didn't discuss your bikes. I didn't interject myself into your auctions. Want to anonymously criticize someone's bike? You run the risk of having them anonymously respond.

Pot...meet kettle.


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## Aaron O

Considering you've never ridden it, you don't have standing to comment on its ride. As far as the pedals, all of my bikes have SPDs...because I ride them. If you want the bike you can put your pedals on it. I like SPDs for convenience and the bike isn't just a wall hanger. If you want it restored as a wall hanger...buy it and restore it. In fact I did buy the "proper" DA bits...and decided not to change the bike out. It was an extremely agonizing decision...one I spoke about at great length on Bikeforums. I ride it. If you want it as a collector piece...buy it and change it out. Otherwise, it's my bike...and I have it set up for my preferences. 

As far as being an eye sore, that's an opinion...and one others might feel about you or your bikes. Do I think SPDs are the best looking pedals out there? Nope...they're ugly. They also work. I have 10 bikes, currently, in the collection...I ride all of them, some more and some less. I can't have different pedals and shoes for each bike...and SPDs made the most sense as the standard.

Bottom line...it's my bike. I didn't ask any of you for your opinions. I didn't consult you. You all chose to offer them anonymously...which says a lot about your character. Don't like it? Tough. Buy it and do it your way...otherwise, it's my bike...and it's a lot more unique and valuable then what you fashionistas are tooling around on.


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## HigherGround

pmf said:


> I can't recall a more acrimonious thread on here -- and there's been some to remember.


Agreed.


----------



## martinrjensen

Makes for interesting reading here. I'm staying out of it but I'm surprised that this isn't locked yet.
I will just jump on my Merckx 753 and go for a ride.....


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## velomateo

I have almost considered buying the darn thing, just to end this nonsense.


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## atpjunkie

*well I'll toss in my 2 cents*

from a 'collectors' stand point (and this applies to more than just bikes)
since the price you have this set for would qualify it as a collectible

Provenance is a plus (you have it)
Condition (you don't)
Original Parts (you don't)
Orignal Parts Spec (you don't) meaning not the parts that were originally on the bike but replaced period pieces that match original spec
Hopefully the tubeset, which cannot be proven or would take an expert to prove

I agree campy works better, makes it a better rider, but no one pays $6K for an old bike and then rides it
The parts spec on it is great but it undercuts its value as a collectors item

So from a collectors stand point all it has going for it is history, Steve Bauer

So then we need to determine what the value of a 753 Merckx w/ 8 Speed ergo of equal condition. (same bike, no provenance) I'll be generous and say $2000. So does the fact that it was Steve Bauer's equate to $4 grand?


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## kiwisimon

good post ATP. How's the leg?


----------



## Aaron O

To me? Yes. The Bauer history is worth that to me. Please also keep in mind that were I to sell it, what are the odds I'd get another Motorola team bike in my size? About nil. I also would ride a classic bike that I paid 6 grand for...that's what they were built for. People pay far more than that for the plastic fantastic made in Taiwan bikes around now. I'll also tell you that a friend of mine who is HEAVILY into collecting, and has some pieces that would make your tongue fall out, rides all of his bikes. I'm talking about a Cinelli made by Cino for his wife. We're talking 1960s De Rosas. 1930s Bianchis. Bikes are made to be ridden...and steel bikes don't suffer much damage from fulfilling their purpose.

Since it's my bike, I get to decide that. I agree with your analysis and it's well thought out...but the answer, to me, is that it's worth that amount to me. Will it be worth that to someone else? Probably not. It cost me 50 cents to ask the question...and it's helping establish insurance value.

One of the beautiful things about our hobby is that a middle class person actually can afford THE BEST if they want it. 6 grand sounds like a LOT of money, and it is, but I just spent about 4,500 total on the Marnati I'm building up...and that was with whole sale pricing on the Campy SR and heavy discounts on everything else. It was also friend pricing on the frame. I'm not bragging, I'm just trying to say 6 grand, compared to most hobbies, isn't really that much. What does 6 grand get you in classic cars, or art, or gambling? Not much. In bikes, 6 grand can get you pretty damn near anything. 

I think it's also, sadly, worth more parted out than as a bike with original and proper bits. Most higher end vintage bikes are worth more parted out. If I ever seriously decide to sell it, I'd probably part it...I wouldn't even feel that badly since it isn't original...and somewhere out there is someone with a De Rosa anniversary DIEING for the panto deltas. Restoring the bike with correct, but unoriginal, parts is relatively easy. I don't think that would really make the bike much more valuable since the parts aren't especially rare or expensive. I'm quite sure I could get an 8sp 7400 STI group for under $500...it cost me about $350 when I was considering changing it over.

Lastly, the tubing issue - I feel certain it's Reynolds 753. Multiple people have confirmed it, including some frame builders. The gentlemen who was initially helping me with this bike spied it right away...and two other pro racers confirmed 753 as well. I didn't want to assert that absolutely because I don't have the tubing sticker on it (obvious reasons), but looking at this frame and comparing it to Hampstens 753 proves they're identical. I haven't seen any other Merckx Motorola frames with the identical work.

In the mean time I'll keep it as is and enjoy riding it once a month. It's a very interesting conversation starter and there's something fun about going on group rides with a team bike (SLOW group rides...I would NOT push this baby). I will say purely from a ride stand point, this isn't in my favorites category.


----------



## texbike

Aaron O said:


> Will it be worth that to someone else? Probably not. It cost me 50 cents to ask the question...and it's helping establish insurance value.


Aaron,

Do you REALLY want to know what the market value of your bike is? If you are truly trying to establish a value for insurance purposes, why not change the format of the auction and start the bidding at $.01? You could set the reserve at whatever number you want it to be and not share the info with anyone. Let the bidding go wild and see where that bad boy ends up (my bet is less than $1800). If it doesn't reach your reserve, you haven't lost anything but you have helped "establish insurance value".

TXB


----------



## Aaron O

It's not a bad idea, but I also don't see it as worth doing. I had a LBS give me an estimate of 3500...I thought it was about right, but wanted confirmation. I doubt the auction you suggest would hit 3500.

At a guess...if I sold it frame only, I'd wager the frame goes about 1200ish...and I can part the rest out for a solid $1,000 as well (I can't imagine panto deltas going under 400ish, but I've never seen them for sale). I wouldn't be interested in selling it at that price. Maybe some day.


----------



## texbike

Aaron O said:


> Bikes are made to be ridden...and steel bikes don't suffer much damage from fulfilling their purpose.
> 
> ...I would NOT push this baby


So, if this bike is made to be ridden, why wouldn't you push it?

TXB


----------



## texbike

Aaron O said:


> I'd wager the frame goes about 1200ish...


I could see that.

TXB


----------



## Aaron O

Because it's 753...and I've got more weight than I feel comfortable with really torqueing down on that. I have better bikes than this for pushing it...and most of them are bikes I'd feel less terribly about killing. The truth is that Reynolds 753 simply isn't built for being ridden by a fat old guy according to most of what I read. 

The Columbus MAX should be far better for that.


----------



## jet sanchEz

I intend to ride the heck out of my Merckx once I get it all sorted, it is in pretty rough condition paint-wise but the components seem fine. Ludwig was a big guy and a sprinter, I doubt that I could push it even as half as far as it was pushed in the past...but I am going to try   

I should start a thread on my Merckx, the tidbits that you guys mentioned about the frame possibly being a Leader has intrigued me...


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## Aaron O

That a boy! Screw wall hanger art.


----------



## atpjunkie

*Aaron*



Aaron O said:


> To me? Yes. The Bauer history is worth that to me. Please also keep in mind that were I to sell it, what are the odds I'd get another Motorola team bike in my size? About nil. I also would ride a classic bike that I paid 6 grand for...that's what they were built for. People pay far more than that for the plastic fantastic made in Taiwan bikes around now. I'll also tell you that a friend of mine who is HEAVILY into collecting, and has some pieces that would make your tongue fall out, rides all of his bikes. I'm talking about a Cinelli made by Cino for his wife. We're talking 1960s De Rosas. 1930s Bianchis. Bikes are made to be ridden...and steel bikes don't suffer much damage from fulfilling their purpose.
> 
> Since it's my bike, I get to decide that. I agree with your analysis and it's well thought out...but the answer, to me, is that it's worth that amount to me. Will it be worth that to someone else? Probably not. It cost me 50 cents to ask the question...and it's helping establish insurance value.
> 
> One of the beautiful things about our hobby is that a middle class person actually can afford THE BEST if they want it. 6 grand sounds like a LOT of money, and it is, but I just spent about 4,500 total on the Marnati I'm building up...and that was with whole sale pricing on the Campy SR and heavy discounts on everything else. It was also friend pricing on the frame. I'm not bragging, I'm just trying to say 6 grand, compared to most hobbies, isn't really that much. What does 6 grand get you in classic cars, or art, or gambling? Not much. In bikes, 6 grand can get you pretty damn near anything.
> 
> I think it's also, sadly, worth more parted out than as a bike with original and proper bits. Most higher end vintage bikes are worth more parted out. If I ever seriously decide to sell it, I'd probably part it...I wouldn't even feel that badly since it isn't original...and somewhere out there is someone with a De Rosa anniversary DIEING for the panto deltas. Restoring the bike with correct, but unoriginal, parts is relatively easy. I don't think that would really make the bike much more valuable since the parts aren't especially rare or expensive. I'm quite sure I could get an 8sp 7400 STI group for under $500...it cost me about $350 when I was considering changing it over.
> 
> Lastly, the tubing issue - I feel certain it's Reynolds 753. Multiple people have confirmed it, including some frame builders. The gentlemen who was initially helping me with this bike spied it right away...and two other pro racers confirmed 753 as well. I didn't want to assert that absolutely because I don't have the tubing sticker on it (obvious reasons), but looking at this frame and comparing it to Hampstens 753 proves they're identical. I haven't seen any other Merckx Motorola frames with the identical work.
> 
> In the mean time I'll keep it as is and enjoy riding it once a month. It's a very interesting conversation starter and there's something fun about going on group rides with a team bike (SLOW group rides...I would NOT push this baby). I will say purely from a ride stand point, this isn't in my favorites category.


I worked next to, and have had as a client CyclArt as a client. I have been around more lust worthy collectible bikes than one can imagine. I'm talking vintage, mint Confentes.
So I'm just trying to give a collectors POV, as I am a collector of many things. I understand the collectors market and have spent time with a guy who not only has a mind bending collection of Merckx Bicyles, he has some of Eddy's actual race worn jerseys from significant victories purchased from the man himself. (if memory serves me right about $90,000 worth) 

You can be sure it is 753, but how could one truly tell? Get as much professional opinion on paper as possible. In all reality, we're looking at lugs, not the tube shapes, you'll probably need calipers, etc.... and a 753 frame to check tube diameters. Even with all of this, you cannot prove %100 that that is what you have and that cuts the value. 

So my list was just suggestions into how to up its value. Agreed it can be ridden, but no one drops that kind of coin on history and makes it an everyday ride. As you said, one would do as you did and go custom.

You would get better value parted out. Again because a collector would switch the gruppo, so you may get more interest for the frame fork and more $ for the Campy. Good luck with the sale
Good luck with the sale


----------



## atpjunkie

*Thanks Simon*



kiwisimon said:


> good post ATP. How's the leg?


I was raised by antique collectors and have a few collections under my belt. I have approached old houses as the above post and when the Real Estate market tanked I did quite well because my 1921 Home was Bone stock. I had 3 offers before we had an open house and 5 total afterword. It closed in under a month for a nice profit in a down market, nuff said.

Leg appears to be on the mend. Crutches until late January I guess. I'm going frigging stir crazy. Thanks for the interest


----------



## atpjunkie

*I agree*



Aaron O said:


> That a boy! Screw wall hanger art.


but no one pays $6 grand for a vintage rider


----------



## Aaron O

Actually I know at least 3 people who do, not counting myself, so I'd say you're wrong. Maybe you don't, maybe others here don't, but you don't speak for everyone.

The problem with your post, and others here, is that you refuse to acknowledge any approach to collection other than your own.


----------



## martinrjensen

removed after I slept on it
[/quote]


----------



## Aaron O

What's crap is your attitude and your BS. The simple truth is that I have described the bike accurately. I can charge whatever I chose to. I have. It is no concern of your's unless you want to buy it. I am calling you on the carpet because you are acting like a self righteous ass hole...as several others did. I don't care if it pisses you off. I don't care how you feel...BECAUSE IT'S NOT YOUR BIKE.

I didn't ask for your opinion. I don't care about your opinion. You chose to whine, as others did, about a sale that has nothing to do with you. You want the bike cheaper? Tough. I understand exactly why I'm getting flak for my post...because you haver a bunch of self righteous biddies acting like buffoons and who refuse to let it die. NO ONE CARES WHAT YOU THINK. 

It's extremely simple...you have no moral right for being a putz and involving yourself with something that isn't your concern because I chose to ask more than you and some others have decided you want to pay. Either make an offer on the bike or shut up. As it stands, you are no different than a hundred other anonymous Craigslist trolls *****ing because someone charged money for a restoration.

I strongly suggest that you...and the others here like you...need to get a hobby, or find a productive use of your time. If you seriously have time to be concerned with the ethics of asking over market value for a bike, you must have a lot more time on your hands than I have. If you put this much effort into collecting, maybe you'd have a collection approaching mine.

Quit trying to justify being an obnoxious busy body crying about an honest ad. There is no ethics violation...just a wanker. Again...you decided to involve yourself with me...I had no interest in you, your forum or your opinion.

That being said, I have other forums to enjoy using with people who don't behave like they are an impoverished man's mentally challenged Ralph Nader. Good day to you, and I sincerely hope that life brings you more than what little you appear to have. This is the last response I will deign to give...I have no need to justify myself to you and responding to this thread at all was a poor decision and waste of time on my part.


----------



## rubbersoul

This troll decides to pop up on a public forum one day and start spewing hypocritical nonsense about how no one else's opinion but his is valid or worth listening too. Then when you read through his posts he makes continued contradictory and hypocritical statements (e.g. calling Shimano "shitmano" and yet ironically arguing how his dirty old spd pedals are so wonderful and functional for his precious and rare Motorola "team bike". At best he's got an authentic Bauer ridden frame set (with liberal "patina" er..rust), and by the way, Bauer could and probably still does produce mega watts, so your ongoing weak rational of how you are too old and fat for it makes me shake my head and chuckle. Oh and the cute little blinker lights you have on it too. Charming.
Then there are the ongoing lessons in macroeconomics, i.e. supply & demand. Well my nobel prize winning laureate, the market's demand curve doesn't intersect with your proposed supply price curve. Yea and the profanity laced epithaths totally reaffirm your knowledge, integrity and class (note the sarcasm). Feel free to spew some more in another weak rebuttal, it will give us all a chuckle. What a mis informed, pompous douche bag.


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## bud wiser

*Wolber....see seat stays in picture*



latman said:


> Were'nt Motorola sponsored by Wolber ? so they would have used their (gentleman or TX profil) clincher rims and tires ? Unless someone bought a decal set later in which case you could stick Motorola labels on any rims you wanted.


Wolber it was, 

Picture from my Hampsten Moto Merckx 753 frame with Wolber sponsorship on rear stays.


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## bud wiser

*I don't get it....*

I hardly ever come to the RBR forums. Today I did because I've got a Merckx Corsa 01 that I'd like to get repainted in the 7-Eleven colors. If anyone has a recommendation for a painter, I'm all ears (and thanks, I already know of Cyclart and Joe Bell). 

But when I got here, I see all this garbage, insult throwing, name-calling nonsense. I like bikes and ride, and collect for FUN. So why this??

Aaron, I'm the guy who wrote you on ebay wishing you well in your quest to get $6k. I'm the guy with the Hampsten Moto Merckx 753. I'm also the guy who agrees with your opinion about 8/9sp DA and shares your fondness for Campy, R.Sachs, and all things Italian steel. However, I fail to see how anyone's opinion of your asking price (which you seem to agree won't be met) is deserving of the vitreolic responses you've offered. 

My Hampsten Moto-Merckx came to me with Campy Chorus, which I pulled off because I intended to build it with period specific DA. You have sound reasons for going with Campy, and I share your preference for Campy. However, I don't think it's inappropriate to suggest that it would be more historically accurate to build it with DA. 

I thought it went without saying that these are public forums where we're free to exchange ideas/thoughts/opinions. If someone balks at a $6K price, as many have, I don't see the harm in discussing provenance value, or the value of vintage steel racing bikes. 

I've found portions of this thread informative, but sadly many disruptive posts have made it more difficult to get to the informative points. If someone wants to "discuss" Aaron's asking price, that's fair game. If someone wants to discuss Aaron's choice of Campy vs. Shimano, that's also fair game. But there are ways where we can do this in civil tones. I believe we're all here because we love bikes, especially Merckx's. Let's act this way. 

Here are pics of my hampsten merckx (55ctc ST / 58cm TT). Feel free to discuss/criticize/comment. I won't be offended. I bought it in the condition it's in. 

http://mistermo.smugmug.com/Cycling/Merckx-Hampsten/13072767_juxjY#947166890_UKVbs


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## texbike

Great response Bud Wiser. Your comments are spot on. That's all I'll say about that...

As for your Hampsten bike, that is one cool machine! It also appears to be 753 (the seatstay treatment looks like the one used on the 753 bikes) also.

The earlier Motorola bikes had Wolber decals on them (as did the 7-11 bikes). However, I think that the Wolber sponsorship ended mid-stream during the Motorola days. Mavic bought Wolber's rim business from Michelin when Michelin acquired the entire company. Unfortunately I can't remember when that happened but it was probably in the 92/93 time frame. 

You've probably already seen this, but if not, it would be a good reference point for your build:

http://www.speedbicycles.ch/showBike.php?enr=295&PHPSESSID=3282840d0bac3232aaf55097ae7e135c 

Good luck with your project. Fortunately 7400 DA parts are pretty easy to find....



TXB


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## bud wiser

*thanks Tex*

I remember when they listed that Hampsten bike on ebay a couple years ago. I watched the auction with interest and even bid! (but waaaay below the final price). 

I found my Hampsten Merckx on craigslist about a year later and knew immediately, by the geometry, seat cluster, and decals, that it was a 753 Hampsten Merckx. Unfortunately, I don't have the fork. The PO traded it to a guy for a LOOK carbon fork. Uggh. 

I'm contemplating selling it, and came to this thread to get an idea of "value". Not sure I was able to decipher that though. In the meantime, I'm having fun trying to find a period-specific, appropriate fork. 

Also, do you (or anyone else) have any opinions on whether a repaint would enhance the value or diminish it?


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## texbike

bud wiser said:


> I remember when they listed that Hampsten bike on ebay a couple years ago. I watched the auction with interest and even bid! (but waaaay below the final price).
> 
> I found my Hampsten Merckx on craigslist about a year later and knew immediately, by the geometry, seat cluster, and decals, that it was a 753 Hampsten Merckx. Unfortunately, I don't have the fork. The PO traded it to a guy for a LOOK carbon fork. Uggh.
> 
> I'm contemplating selling it, and came to this thread to get an idea of "value". Not sure I was able to decipher that though. In the meantime, I'm having fun trying to find a period-specific, appropriate fork.
> 
> Also, do you (or anyone else) have any opinions on whether a repaint would enhance the value or diminish it?


Personally I wouldn't refinish the bike. It looks like it has had a lot of hard miles but that is part of the charm of these bikes. 

Too bad about the fork. 

If you want to find out what the market value of the frame is, put it on ebay with an artificially high reserve/low starting bid and let the bidding begin. Where it ends up is what the market value is. My suggestion would be to take a LOT of good pictures and talk about Hampsten's accomplishments and his time at Motorola along with providing info on the bike. Interesting bikes transcend seasonality if they're priced appropriately...

Texbike


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## Cinelli 82220

texbike said:


> It also appears to be 753 (the seatstay treatment looks like the one used on the 753 bikes) also.


There is lots of information about using calipers to determine if tubing is 753 on the ClassicRendezvous bulletin board.
In 2003 I tried to buy a Merckx 753 on EBay from a guy in the US who didn't want to ship outside the lower 48. Near mint with pantographed chainring, stem, brake levers, shift levers and seat post. It opened at $450, I offered a thousand if he would ship to Canada, no dice. It didn't sell and was never relisted. That place is a crap shoot LOL.
Merckx forks show up on EBay now and then, though not 753.


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## jet sanchEz

bud wiser said:


> I remember when they listed that Hampsten bike on ebay a couple years ago. I watched the auction with interest and even bid! (but waaaay below the final price).


Out of curiosity, what was the final price? It looks to be in damned fine shape.



Cinelli 82220 said:


> There is lots of information about using calipers to determine if tubing is 753 on the ClassicRendezvous bulletin board.
> In 2003 I tried to buy a Merckx 753 on EBay from a guy in the US who didn't want to ship outside the lower 48. Near mint with pantographed chainring, stem, brake levers, shift levers and seat post. It opened at $450, I offered a thousand if he would ship to Canada, no dice. It didn't sell and was never relisted. That place is a crap shoot LOL.
> Merckx forks show up on EBay now and then, though not 753.


I am in Canada too and Merckx bikes don't seem to be very common here, was there even a Merckx distributor back in the '80s and '90s?


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## bud wiser

jet sanchEz said:


> Out of curiosity, what was the final price? It looks to be in damned fine shape.


It's the same bike texbike mentions in his post #23, "In 2008 a Motorola bike that is rumored to have been THE bike that Hampsten won the Alpe D' Huez stage on in 1992 sold for $6300. It was all original and in great shape. It can be seen on the SpeedBicycles website. That bike had provenance and 2008 was a different time. "





jet sanchEz said:


> I am in Canada too and Merckx bikes don't seem to be very common here, was there even a Merckx distributor back in the '80s and '90s?


Sorry, I can't help you w/ that question. Maybe Steve Bauer knows? ;-)


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## texbike

Cinelli 82220 said:


> There is lots of information about using calipers to determine if tubing is 753 on the ClassicRendezvous bulletin board.
> In 2003 I tried to buy a Merckx 753 on EBay from a guy in the US who didn't want to ship outside the lower 48. Near mint with pantographed chainring, stem, brake levers, shift levers and seat post. It opened at $450, I offered a thousand if he would ship to Canada, no dice. It didn't sell and was never relisted. That place is a crap shoot LOL.
> Merckx forks show up on EBay now and then, though not 753.


Interesting point about the 753. I'd love to see a couple of pics that compare different seatstay arrangements used on 753 Merckxs. Do you have any links or can you suggest any websites that have pics of the two different 753 seatstay configurations?

The only one that I am aware of is the one displayed here. The TSX tubing typically used the typical seatstay that attached to the side of the seat tube and had the "EM" stamped into the cap. However, anything is possible. I know of at least three different seatstay configurations used on the MX Leaders.

Did Merckx construct forks of 753 also, or was it just the frame?

TXB


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## bud wiser

Another telltale and obvious sign is the tube 'rifling' near the BB. At the time, any Merckx frame of this level NOT built with Reynolds would've been built with SLX or TSX. Both of these tubesets have the rifling in the tubes for added strength/rigidity. The Hampsten frame I have has a TSX decal, but no rifling in the tubes.


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## Cinelli 82220

texbike said:


> I'd love to see a couple of pics that compare different seatstay arrangements used on 753 Merckxs.


It took about ten seconds to Google this old ad:










Note the two SLX Corsa Extra frames, one with logo seatstay caps and one with fastback stays, one with external brake cable and one with internal. Which one is "right"?
As noted in the ad, the factory could make almost anything you wanted. If you watch EBay you will see lots of oddball frames that don't appear in any catalog.


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## texbike

Cinelli 82220 said:


> It took about ten seconds to Google this old ad:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Note the two SLX Corsa Extra frames, one with logo seatstay caps and one with fastback stays, one with external brake cable and one with internal. Which one is "right"?
> As noted in the ad, the factory could make almost anything you wanted. If you watch EBay you will see lots of oddball frames that don't appear in any catalog.


I agree that there are a TON of oddball Merckx frames that don't meet the typical model specs. However, I can't remember a single 753 Merckx that didn't have the exact same seatstay configuration as the Hampsten and Bauer bikes discussed here. I'm not stating that it ISN'T a possibility, just that I haven't seen one with a different stay configuration in looking at just about every Merckx that has popped up here or on ebay in the past 6-7 years. I'd LOVE to see one that doesn't fit this convention.

TXB


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## learlove

53ctc seat with a 56ctc top - that is a long tt for a 53 bike. 

FWIW when I saw Bauer's bikes (and had special access to them) at the 1990 tour de trump and 1991 dupont race he was on 52cm merckx bikes and i cannot remember but the top tubes were not that long.

When I have a spare moment I will dig out the pics I took of his 7-11 merckx and moto merckx during those years.


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## Cinelli 82220

texbike said:


> I'd LOVE to see one that doesn't fit this convention.
> 
> TXB


You aren't looking very hard. There's one right in the ad I posted.

Another belonging to martinrjensen:










And another belonging to boneman:


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## texbike

Cinelli 82220 said:


> You aren't looking very hard. There's one right in the ad I posted.
> 
> Another belonging to martinrjensen:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> And another belonging to boneman:


I stand corrected! Thanks for posting the pics Cinelli. I'm sorry to be so thick-skulled. 

Those are beautiful bikes that you posted from Boneman and Martin. I actually do remember seeing those now. The memory isn't what it used to be.... 

Texbike


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## atpjunkie

*the seatstay on the Hampsten Motorola*

where it meets the Seat lug is different than the Bauer Motorola which is different than the two Merckx's with the 753 stickers. As well as the one in the ad.
So the 3 that we have definite evidence of 753 tubing have clear visual differences than the 2 race bikes. We have done little so far to help establish the tubeset here. In fact the one thing I notice is the seat stays on the 753 bikes seem more oversized than the columbus bikes. As if because of the thinness of the 753 walls they went bigger in diameter. (like what happened with alu frames)
The 2 team bikes appear to have thin seat stays which then implies
a) NOT 753
or
b) 753 Front triangles with different custom 'pro' stays


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## bud wiser

A few years ago, listed on ebay was a Hampsten Merckx Motorola bike that was purported to be the Alpe D'Huez stage winner. There was considerable buzz across the various forums and I believe the final conclusion (not that it makes it right) was that it was a 753 bike stickered as a TSX bike. 

http://www.bikeforums.net/showthread.php/436911-Andy-Hampsten-s-Motorola-Merckx

Somewhere, I have a link to pics of the bike referenced above, but I can't find it. I'm sure someone reading this has the link to Stefan's photos of the bike. But iirc, the seat stay configuration was the same as the Bauer and the Hampsten bikes here. 

Bottom line is that I think the Merckx factory didn't stick to any rigid formula of which stays to use with which tubeset. I imagine, just like modern framebuilders, they mixed it up depending on the frame's rider and intended use.


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## rubbersoul

texbike said:


> Great response Bud Wiser. Your comments are spot on. That's all I'll say about that...
> 
> As for your Hampsten bike, that is one cool machine! It also appears to be 753 (the seatstay treatment looks like the one used on the 753 bikes) also.
> 
> The earlier Motorola bikes had Wolber decals on them (as did the 7-11 bikes). However, I think that the Wolber sponsorship ended mid-stream during the Motorola days. Mavic bought Wolber's rim business from Michelin when Michelin acquired the entire company. Unfortunately I can't remember when that happened but it was probably in the 92/93 time frame.
> 
> You've probably already seen this, but if not, it would be a good reference point for your build:
> 
> http://www.speedbicycles.ch/showBike.php?enr=295&PHPSESSID=3282840d0bac3232aaf55097ae7e135c
> 
> Good luck with your project. Fortunately 7400 DA parts are pretty easy to find....
> 
> 
> 
> TXB


Now THAT is a great looking bike!


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## atpjunkie

*try here*



bud wiser said:


> A few years ago, listed on ebay was a Hampsten Merckx Motorola bike that was purported to be the Alpe D'Huez stage winner. There was considerable buzz across the various forums and I believe the final conclusion (not that it makes it right) was that it was a 753 bike stickered as a TSX bike.
> 
> http://www.bikeforums.net/showthread.php/436911-Andy-Hampsten-s-Motorola-Merckx
> 
> Somewhere, I have a link to pics of the bike referenced above, but I can't find it. I'm sure someone reading this has the link to Stefan's photos of the bike. But iirc, the seat stay configuration was the same as the Bauer and the Hampsten bikes here.
> 
> Bottom line is that I think the Merckx factory didn't stick to any rigid formula of which stays to use with which tubeset. I imagine, just like modern framebuilders, they mixed it up depending on the frame's rider and intended use.



http://www.speedbicycles.ch/showBike.php?enr=295&PHPSESSID=3282840d0bac3232aaf55097ae7e135c

again it and the Bauer Bikes have different stays than the other bikes we know are 753
my guess is these 2 rides, if 753, are running some other chainstay material


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## bigbill

atpjunkie said:


> http://www.speedbicycles.ch/showBike.php?enr=295&PHPSESSID=3282840d0bac3232aaf55097ae7e135c
> 
> again it and the Bauer Bikes have different stays than the other bikes we know are 753
> my guess is these 2 rides, if 753, are running some other chainstay material


I checked that link and the bike pictured has the second generation DA 8 speed crankset (7410, I think, I have one on my commuter) which came out in 94 or 95. The site leads one to believe that it's the bike used in 92. A little thing but I'm bored. Could be worst, I could be bored with a broken leg.


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## atpjunkie

*it may have been*



bigbill said:


> I checked that link and the bike pictured has the second generation DA 8 speed crankset (7410, I think, I have one on my commuter) which came out in 94 or 95. The site leads one to believe that it's the bike used in 92. A little thing but I'm bored. Could be worst, I could be bored with a broken leg.


re-spec'd w/period close pieces and not period correct


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## bud wiser

Certainly, I could be wrong, but I seem to remember that this bike, when offered on ebay, had a left-side down tube shifter and a non-STI brake lever on the left. I'm fairly certain that that was Andy H's preferred setup for his climbing bikes. 

It doesn't make sense that the Alpe d'Huez stage winner would be set up w/ an STI left shifter. That auction on ebay for his Alpe d'Huez bike was about 2.5yrs ago, so I don't remember with certainty, but I was a bidder and seem to recall that bike had the friction shifting on the left side. 

...Just another data point, right or wrong.


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## Aaron O

Just saw a few of the newer posts and I figured enough time went by for things to have cooled down...I have no wish to reignite prior chaos.

I remember that Hampsten auction and that's my memory of it as well. Isn't it conceivable that he'd change the set up on the same bike for different stages in different races? It isn't that difficult to switch out the shifter.

I brought the bike to a local frame builder/friend of mine and we used a calipers on the main tubes...it's Reynolds 753. As far as the stays, I find it likely they may have been heavier duty/stiffer than what we see in the ads. The bike is considerably heavier than what you'd expect for 753...I haven't weighed it, and didn't build it with weight in mind, but I'd guess it weighs around 23 lbs., maybe more.

As far as my Merckx being Bauer's...the factory confirmed it via email. It was built specifically for his geometry, and Merckx often built bikes with longer top tubes than standard...you can verify this with interviews of 7-11/Motorola racers. I'll try and post a link. They did not confirm that it was 753 and I've tried contacting Mr. bauer and haven't gotten replies. I'm sure he's quite busy with his tours and never really cared much about what happened to his old bikes.

I'm sure you'll all be glad to know that I received an offer near my asking price...and have decided to keep the bike (for now). In a few years...if I get bored with it...I'll sell it.


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## martinrjensen

My 753 lists "Fork Blades" as 753r on the seat tube Reynolds decal.


texbike said:


> Interesting point about the 753. I'd love to see a couple of pics that compare different seatstay arrangements used on 753 Merckxs. Do you have any links or can you suggest any websites that have pics of the two different 753 seatstay configurations?
> 
> The only one that I am aware of is the one displayed here. The TSX tubing typically used the typical seatstay that attached to the side of the seat tube and had the "EM" stamped into the cap. However, anything is possible. I know of at least three different seatstay configurations used on the MX Leaders.
> 
> Did Merckx construct forks of 753 also, or was it just the frame?
> 
> TXB


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