# Baselayer Poll: Patagonia or UnderArmour



## M.J. (Jan 28, 2004)

am looking at picking up a sweet baselayer to add to the collection - will be riding in winter temps 20F/-6C to 50F/10C with lots of wet weather expected

1. Patagonia Capilene 3 (1/4 zip)
http://www.patagonia.com/web/us/pro...PBL_COLLECTION&catcode=PBL.PBL.MENS.CAPILENE3

2. Patagonia Wool 3 ((1/4 zip)
http://www.patagonia.com/web/us/pro...ION=PBL_COLLECTION&catcode=PBL.PBL.MENS.WOOL3

3. Patagonia R1 Flash Pullover 
http://www.patagonia.com/web/us/pro...e=MAIN.CLOTHING_GEAR.MENS.PULLOVERS#sku.40104

4. Underarmour Coldgear (1/4 zip)
http://www.underarmour.com/ProductDetail.cfm?site_id=1&dept_id=1&coll_id=1101&pf_id=1004557

tell me what I need to know and if I should be looking at something else

thanks!


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## Chris H (Jul 7, 2005)

Don't own any Patagonio items, however they make great stuff. I can comment on the Under Armour though. I have the longsleeve cold gear quarter zip shirt and I love it. I've worn it in the temp ranges you're looking at and it works great. I especially like the zipper, if I start getting hot it vents the heat out pretty well. 

http://www.underarmour.com/ProductImageWindow.cfm?pf_id=1005557

Of course, when it's colder it's part of a layered system. Coldest I've been in was in the low teens with a jersey, that shirt, and a windproof/water repellant heavy fleece. Worked great for me. Now that I've finally broken down and gotten fleece full length tights I laugh in winters face! Well... as wintery as it gets here in Texas.


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## Reynolds531 (Nov 8, 2002)

*cashmere*



M.J. said:


> am looking at picking up a sweet baselayer to add to the collection - will be riding in winter temps 20F/-6C to 50F/10C with lots of wet weather expected
> 
> 1. Patagonia Capilene 3 (1/4 zip)
> http://www.patagonia.com/web/us/pro...PBL_COLLECTION&catcode=PBL.PBL.MENS.CAPILENE3
> ...


The best baselayer I've ever found is an old cashmere sweater. Wicks, warm when wet, comfortable over a very wide temperature range.


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## Robbie59 (Apr 12, 2006)

Silk makes a great base layer. Whenever possible, I go with natural fibers. They just feel better to me than synthetics. Although some synthetics are getting to be quite good.


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## Scot_Gore (Jan 25, 2002)

When I'm dressing for cold weather active activities I try to go with lighter choices than your selections appear to be. Then add something more akin to the selections in your poll for the colder side of your range on top of that. I like to have jersey pockets, so I almost always have a summer weight jersey as one of my layers. 

Others good choices to add to your shopping list would be North Face, Helly Hanson, or the REI house brand.

For me, this poll gets answered by "whatever is on sale". 

Frankly I generally pop over to Sierra Trading Post and look for any screaming deal they've got running and don't worry too much about it's brand. I just looked and they've got a Kenyon Poly Base Layer for $10.00.

Scot


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## Sledgehammer03 (Mar 7, 2006)

I use Under Armor down to 15F (-10C) Works great with a couple other thin layers above. Below that, it is truck time. The nice thing about the Under Armor is you can wear it when it is significantly warmer too. Last week it was 19 f when I left home, and 55F when I left work in the eveing. Worked Great.


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## ispoke (Feb 28, 2005)

*ibex*

Have you considered wool? Weve worn our Ibex merino wool base layers from 70F down to below freezing. The wool is very comfortable and does not smell (much) even after wearing for 3 or 4 days. Ibex has an outlet page on their website. Or check Sierra Trading Post for wool undies.

You may have noticed that Patagonia is now selling wool base layers. I can only assume that they are great given their reputation. Patagonia may also put some effort into explaining when to choose synthetic or wool...


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## JeffS (Oct 3, 2006)

Robbie59 said:


> Silk makes a great base layer. Whenever possible, I go with natural fibers. They just feel better to me than synthetics. Although some synthetics are getting to be quite good.


Really bad advice unless you're going to explicitly exclude cotton.


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## buck-50 (Sep 20, 2005)

I've got a capaline baselayer shirt and tights. It's really silky-comfortable and it keeps me warm, but I almost never wear it because the second I sweat in it, it begins to stink. Not just a little stink, either- there is something about capaline that turns it into a stink-amplifier. 

I have some wool that's less comfortable but I wear it more often just to avoid the stink issue.

We're talking eye-watering powerful STANK here...

Unless you can wash it every night or have a place to keep it hermetically sealed after you've worn it, I'd suggest staying away from capaline.


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## M.J. (Jan 28, 2004)

wow - never heard about the hidden stank of Capilene - the website says it deals with smell pretty well... looking like underarmour (and (more) cheap sale stuff)

thanks to all


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## Sledgehammer03 (Mar 7, 2006)

*Stank*

I've got adn Under Armor knock off that has been worn under hockey equipment and it stinks pretty bad too. It is now used just for hockey and the real deal (new stuff) is used for cycling. I just wash all my stuff after each use and, for the most part, not a problem.


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## mark_m (Apr 24, 2003)

M.J. said:


> am looking at picking up a sweet baselayer to add to the collection - will be riding in winter temps 20F/-6C to 50F/10C with lots of wet weather expected
> 
> 1. Patagonia Capilene 3 (1/4 zip)
> 2. Patagonia Wool 3 ((1/4 zip)
> ...


My Patagonia stuff has been great but I don't have any of their Capilene stuff. Have plenty of other mfgr baselayers though so here are some comments:
- all man-made fibers (polypropen etc) will pick up the smell sooner or later, now some are of better quality and have some treatment which will keep the smell away (for a while). Craft Pro series can be washed in very hot temps so they are good, some other ones have silver threads in fabric which is supposed keep the smell away.
- merino wool based baselayers are excellent, feel great even when wet, good ones never get (too) smelly but I think they are not as good wicking for full on sessions (xc skiing) as poly stuff.
- I like to wear thin layer under jersey year round, one of those thin silky ones from Gore or Assos would be great but I only have noname brand stuff for that - they have slightly coarser materials.


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## OnTheRivet (Sep 3, 2004)

Craft. 
http://www.craft.se/index.php?id=10


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## Metsmike (Jan 15, 2005)

OnTheRivet said:


> Craft.
> http://www.craft.se/index.php?id=10



Yes, Craft.


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## Beekeeper (Aug 22, 2006)

Icebreaker 100% merino is very good as well. It has the added advantage of not getting smelly like synthetic baselayers do.


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## Spintogrin (Sep 23, 2005)

My 2c, Stay away from Under armour. I'm just not a fan of it, it is too high priced and holds on to moisture. When I wear it I get soaked and stay wet and then cold. Poly and light fleece garments work very well for me as do Smart Wool products. There are any number of choices as others have pointed out. I have garments manufactured by Voler, PI, Craft, Easter Mtn Sports etc, all are better choices than the UA I have. 

As for the smell issue - I launder my cloths with Arm and Hammer powdered detergent w/o frag or softners. I also make every attempt to hang dry in the sun, nice smell and sunlight is a great sanitizer.


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## eric (Mar 28, 2005)

Capilene stinks bad.

I have not used any synthetics since picking up three wool items from Smartwool, Ibex, and Icebreaker. 

They are all good, but the quality of Ibex and Icebreaker is a bit better than the smartwool.

Just get whatever Merino you can find on sale.


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## geraldatwork (Jul 15, 2005)

Spintogrin said:


> My 2c, Stay away from Under armour. I'm just not a fan of it, it is too high priced and holds on to moisture. When I wear it I get soaked and stay wet and then cold. Poly and light fleece garments work very well for me as do Smart Wool products. There are any number of choices as others have pointed out. I have garments manufactured by Voler, PI, Craft, Easter Mtn Sports etc, all are better choices than the UA I have.
> 
> As for the smell issue - I launder my cloths with Arm and Hammer powdered detergent w/o frag or softners. I also make every attempt to hang dry in the sun, nice smell and sunlight is a great sanitizer.


+1 about the UnderArmour. I find it doesn't wick all that well. Very overated as a thermal base layer. It does look pretty cool though.


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## rufus (Feb 3, 2004)

Scot_Gore said:


> When I'm dressing for cold weather active activities I try to go with lighter choices than your selections appear to be. Then add something more akin to the selections in your poll for the colder side of your range on top of that. I like to have jersey pockets, so I almost always have a summer weight jersey as one of my layers.


yeah, in my limited experience i'd think that that the Capilene 1 would be the base layer, and then the 3 for the next midweight layer. top that with a light or heavy fleece jersey, and a shell or heavier jacket, depending on just how cold it gets. 

i just ordered a few Polartec Powerdry shirts from LLBean, two silkweights and a midweight, cheaper than the Patagonia stuff, and probably works the same. 

and EMS has a special sale on their Techwick stuff, buy two pieces get 20% off, three and you get 30%. not sure how it measures up, but i did check it out at the local EMS store, and it looked decent. if they're still doing this in the spring, i may pick up some of the lightweight stuff.


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## M.J. (Jan 28, 2004)

looks like someone else was wondering the same thing...

http://outside.away.com/outside/gear/gearguy/200611/20061113.html


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## Robbie59 (Apr 12, 2006)

JeffS said:


> Really bad advice unless you're going to explicitly exclude cotton.


Usually, when I recommend silk I'm excluding cotton. Cotton shouldn't even enter the picture for Winter clothing. Wool makes a great baselayer also and Merino wool is very comfy next to the skin. Wool has great wicking qualities, is hell for durable even in the thinnest of garments, and retains up to 80% of its insulating properties when wet. I've just found silk to be a bit more preferable when outdoors and active (running, cycling, rowing, xc skiing, etc) because of its smoothness compared to wool. And both handle odor better than any synthetic. At a 20 degree temp, I would choose silk as my baselayer, relatively thin wool as a midlayer, and add a lightweight windbreaking/water repelling outergarment as needed. Actually, this setup is versatile across a fairly wide range of temperatures assuming you're staying at least somewhat active.

As always, and especially with clothing, YMMV.


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## luvmybike (Aug 19, 2002)

Scot_Gore said:


> Others good choices to add to your shopping list would be North Face, Helly Hanson, or the REI house brand.
> 
> For me, this poll gets answered by "whatever is on sale".
> 
> Scot


I think this is the best advice. There are a number of synthetic and natural materials that work pretty well. Take the time to learn the individual materials and then look at anything on sale. You will be surprised what you might find at your basic department store, in there sporting clothes section on the sale rack. Most manufacturers are just buying the material anyway and stamping there name on the shirt. If it is similar material it, in general will work the same. 

I think people would be surprised how well a good wool thin dress sweater would work as a layer... for that matter dress socks in the summer


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## rufus (Feb 3, 2004)

rufus said:


> i just ordered a few Polartec Powerdry shirts from LLBean, two silkweights and a midweight, cheaper than the Patagonia stuff, and probably works the same.


got my LLBean order the other day, and was able to get a ride in yesterday. wore one of the longsleeve silkweight shirts, the longsleeve midweight zip-T, a light fleece PI longsleeve jersey, and my PI Zephyrr shell. starting temp was around 50 degrees, and dropped to 46 by the end, and i was toasty warm the whole time. and i don't like cold at all, and was probably overdressed by some of your's standards. 

my layering till now has been a PI shortsleev base with a Helle Hanson long sleeve. but the PI shirt doesn't seem to wick that well, and i usually begin to feel cold and clammy as the ride wears on and the sweat builds up. only had a bit of dampness on my back under my Camelback, but no sense of cold or clamminess at all. 

so i have to give a big thumbsup to the Polartec Powerdry stuff.

looking to add to this with a heavier mid-layer, and some wool midlayer stuff also. haven't found any shortsleeve Polartec stuff, so may try the EMS Techwick for a summer baselayer.


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## lancezneighbor (May 4, 2002)

*new capilene doesn't stink (?)*



buck-50 said:


> I've got a capaline baselayer shirt and tights. It's really silky-comfortable and it keeps me warm, but I almost never wear it because the second I sweat in it, it begins to stink. Not just a little stink, either- there is something about capaline that turns it into a stink-amplifier.
> 
> I have some wool that's less comfortable but I wear it more often just to avoid the stink issue.
> 
> ...



The new Capilene has an odor fighter (they call it gladiodor or something). Supposed to be much better. Can't be any worse that is for sure! I haven't used it I stick with Smartwool and Icebreakers. Wool feels better, is durable, wicks FASTER than synthetic, warm when wet. Feels dry next to the skin even whn holding water. Looks better if you have to make a public appearance in your cycling wear. 

As a kid I hated wool, but with the finer Merino wool... well you can tell I'm a big fan.


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## HokieRider (Oct 6, 2005)

I use both capeline and underarmor for all outdoor activities in the winter - biking, camping, running, etc. I find that the capeline and the underarmor both have distinctive odors associated with them, but they can be easily removed using baking soda in the laundry or products like this


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## dave66 (Jan 3, 2006)

*under armour - isn't just a rip off?*

i have never bought it so i may be way off but it is just the price of it + all the celeb endorsements + advertising = more bucks than it's worth no?
i picked up something similar to their longsleeve at my grocery store for about 12 bucks and it works pretty well - or as well as i would ever expect

this isn't meant as a dig - is the added benefits of it worth the $$?


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## JeffS (Oct 3, 2006)

Anything with that much advertising is more expensive than it _could_ be.

I looked at the cold gear stuff, but it wasn't cut right for me. I don't want baggy clothes, and everything became too short when I got it in a tighter size. Bike-specific clothing costs a premium as well, but it does usually fit like I want it to.


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## Steve-O (Jan 28, 2004)

*Feedback on the funk (of synthetics)*

For many years the main downside of synthetics has been the funky smell they pick up when worn over time. Supposedly the processing of polyester leaves trace amounts of oils on the fiber. This oil allows for bacteria growth thus the horrible smell. I can personally attest to this as I have some older REI long underwear as well as some well used cycling jerseys that are truly overpowering after a long ride. The best solution that I have found has been to use OxiClean religiously in the laundry. It is a strong oxidizer which will sanitize the water and kill the bugs. Unfortunately the smell is never completely gone.

To combat this companies have started adding trace amounts of silver into the fabric. The elemental silver is in its ionic state thus it has a slight charge on it. This charge is what helps to kill the bacteria. The other approach is special coatings or washing of the fabric to get rid of the oil (I think this is what Patagonia is doing).

Even with these downsides I tend to use synthetics more then wool. The wool stuff is simply too expensive to wear day in and day out the entire winter. Mrs. Steve-O works for Patagonia and has several of the wool pieces and raves about them. I am a little concerned about the durability of them (shrinkage/abrasion/stretching) but so far so good on the pieces she has....


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## HokieRider (Oct 6, 2005)

Hey Steve-O....think the Mrs. wants to give me a job? Spent some time at REI....plenty of product testing!!!


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## Steve-O (Jan 28, 2004)

Here you go!

http://www.patagonia.com/web/us/patagonia.go?assetid=4491

There are jobs to be had if you don't mind making $10/hour doing seasonal work... The perks are good though! And plenty of cool people to work with....


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## Johnnysmooth (Jun 10, 2004)

*Wool*

Synthetics will stink and once that starts, they never stop. Sure, you put them in the wash they come out smelling pretty and in two hours of wearing them, you start to get the funk.

Like Ibex, the company Smartwool makes some fabulous base layers in merino wool in a variety of weights and some tops even have zippers and a mock T. I also have a synthetic top with silver embedded. The silver really does work at controlling the funk, but it ain't wool.

Wool is the best fabric I've used as it will keep you comfortable over the widest range of temp (critical when you are exercising), can go 3 days plus before starting to smell and the new wool today requires no special cleaning - just throw it in the wash.

So don;t waste your time on the synthetics, just go with the wool.


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## bas (Jul 30, 2004)

I bought a bunch of STARTER stuff from Walmart, $10 long sleeve base layer.

That was around 2003. Can't find it anymore.




M.J. said:


> am looking at picking up a sweet baselayer to add to the collection - will be riding in winter temps 20F/-6C to 50F/10C with lots of wet weather expected
> 
> 1. Patagonia Capilene 3 (1/4 zip)
> http://www.patagonia.com/web/us/pro...PBL_COLLECTION&catcode=PBL.PBL.MENS.CAPILENE3
> ...


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## thegock (May 16, 2006)

*Base layers*

Have one Under Armor Cold Gear, three Champion C9 synthetics from Target-my favorite store. The Under A is thicker and warmer but costs FOUR times as much. If it is in the wash on a cold morning we use two of the cheapies above and below. Also use a woolblend duofold base, a red polypropylene top and a LLBean CoolMax in my LBS team colors. 

All work pretty well. 

Went 43 miles at 33 degrees on Sunday morning with the UA under a cheap (Target) merino wool layer and an expensive (used on eBay for $30) Italian winter jacket. 

Just got two cheap ($15) wool layers from Sierra but we haven't tried those yet.


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