# Wheelsets: Ultegra vs. SRAM S27 AL



## CX Noob (Dec 1, 2009)

I'm a long-time mountain bike rider and racer. I recently started riding cx a fair ammount on a stock Cannondale CX6. I don't race, or have any intention of racing. I ride on a mix of dirt roads, double track, and singletrack in all conditions. I'm digging cx so far as a break from my mountain bike, and I'm looking up making a few upgrades, the first being a lighter set of wheels. I would like the hear the thoughts from seasoned cx riders who can justify their input, not blindly regurgitate biased or second-hand information. I've narrowed my decisions down to the two wheelsets below. I have some lingering questions about each. For the sake of keeping this thread on track, lets assume I'm not interested in any other wheelsets but the ones I've listed.

Shimano Ultegra 6700:
-1650g, tubeless ready, loose ball bearings.

SRAM S27 AL comp:
-1620g, clincher (non-tubeless), low friction sealed japanese bearings

The weight is on-par, and I'm paying the approximately the same price for each. The two questions I have are regarding loose-ball vs sealed bearings, and tubeless vs tubed for cx. 

I've spent years working on bikes and am aware that ball bearings roll better, but am also aware that the system is not as fool-proof as sealed bearing. I have always used sealed bearing hubs on my mountain bikes, but I'm curious if loose-ball is noticably faster for cx that it's worth the attentive eye and extra care? Exactly how much should I anticipate servicing them if I ride in early spring new england (mud) conditions and hose down my bike after every wet ride?

I'm familiar with tubeless, and the ride quality it provides on fat tires. I've noticed that the tire selection is pretty slim for UST cx tires, specifically just a few hutchison's at first glance. Do people usually use standard clincher cx tires with stan's sealant, or will they burp air or roll off under hard cornering? If standard clinchers are a bad idea and I'm limited specifically to UST cross tires, is the ride quality and rolling resistance worth specifically buying a tubeless ready wheelset?

I'd appreciate any input you guys can give. Thanks!


----------



## krisdrum (Oct 29, 2007)

If you aren't racing and don't intend to race, I would think durability would be king, which often does not accompany light weight. What is the motivation to go with a lighter set if you aren't looking to take seconds off the clock?


----------



## CX Noob (Dec 1, 2009)

_Really?_

For the same reasons I don't ride 28lb mountain bikes when I can get away with 23lbs? Although I don't race cx, I still ride fast, and can appreciate losing 300g of rotational weight when possible. The question isn't whether I need the wheels, its whether they will be up to the task. Durability is a factor, but I'm a seasoned mechanic with a touch of OCD. Unless these are going to fold underneath my 165lb build, assume they will be properly care for and never neglected. Back on track, no one has any objective input on either wheelset?


----------



## krisdrum (Oct 29, 2007)

Just looking at the specs, those seem like lower spoke counts than I would be totally comfortable with off road and I am about your weight, especially if they have a proprietary spoke system that might make getting replacement parts a pain.

Not sure how long the WH-6700s have been out, but I have a feeling the SRAM S27 aren't going to have too many users yet, since they just came out during Interbike, if memory serves. That is what, 3 months ago, and I'm not even sure they were bagged and tagged and ready ship at that point.

If you are a seasoned mechanic and have access to some industry discounts, you might be better served by building your own. Maybe something like a White Industries hubset with Kinlin XR270 or 300 rims and lighter double butted spoke (Revs, CX Ray, etc.) in a 20/28 or 24/28 set-up. Those would probably be even lighter than your proposed sets and would likely be more durable.


----------



## CX Noob (Dec 1, 2009)

16F and 20R for Shimano (2-cross). 18F and 22R for SRAM (Radial front, though)

My bad on the SRAM wheels. I shouldn't have asked about a product no one has tried yet. I follow interbike, just not this side of it. (yet) That's what I have the username for I guess.  

I looked into hand building myself a set of nice wheels. However, it gets expensive dealing with revolution spokes and decent hubs/rims. Without giving away prices, it was significantly cheaper for me to go with either of these wheels than to build my own. 

From the looks of it, a fair number of CX parts seem to be crossover parts from road. Is it not safe to assume that a 18 count wheel will hold up even if its trued and kept tensioned? Do people using wheels like this usually break more spokes? Obviously it'd be foolish to buy these if they won't last a season on dirt, but FWIW I wouldn't expect to keep them more than a couple of seasons before upgrading in some shape or form. This is not a long term be-all-end-all purchase. It'd be great if it was a worthwhile temporary one though.


----------



## cyclevt (Aug 6, 2004)

*Cross Wheel experience*

I ran a 24h Velocity Fusion rim, radial laced to a sealed "asian" hub for 18months of cyclocross that included a season of racing (ungraceful noob racing at that!) and had training

That wheel is still true and serviceable. I don't race on it anymore because I went tubular, but it is a wheel I'd trust against any of my other clinchers for cross.

I don't think I'd have gone lower that 24f/28r spokes on a custom built wheel though. 

That said, I know lots and lots of people thrashing Mavic Ksyriums (elite and premium/ssl) on cross bikes and they hold up fine. They are 18f/20r. Or is is 20f/24r?

You can find a set of Ksyriums for about $350 if you look around. I use a rear ksyrium elite clincher as my cross training wheel and it works fine. This is the fewest spokes I'd use for cross.

Hell, I even use a Bontrager Race-x-Lite front (clincher 20 paired spokes) for a cross training wheel. I nearly destroyed it in a crit wreck and that wheel, despite the hop, is plenty durable for cross.

1500-1600 grams is about as light as you can get for that price range.

Uh oh, I'm ranting.. time to end this reply.


----------



## krisdrum (Oct 29, 2007)

The SRAM has a 22 rear? Must be a proprietary hub and creative lacing.

Yes, plenty of stuff crosses over from road. I mean I always describe cross as "a road bike with bigger knobbier tires, ridden off road". But rarely do you see folks going with the ultra low spoke counts, at least from what I've seen. I'd consider 32 "standard". Now, that might be overkill for alot of people, but aren't most mtn wheels 32 still? I'd use that as a good guide, especially since they are stiffer and stronger because they have a smaller diameter and wide tire bed.

For me, 20f/28r would be the lowest I'd go. YMMV. I raced a set of of Mavic Cosmos this season. Those are 24/28 I think and on the heavy side (pushing 1900). They weren't what was holding me back. Again, YMMV. I also ran a pair of Ultegra hubs laced to DT RR 1.1s, 32 3x all around. Those are about the same weight and I thought gave a little more comfy ride. They are now on my road bike after I snapped a drive-side spoke on my "light" wheels (Velomax Circuits).

You could probably build a set of wheels with some savvy used parts selection and searching for $150-200. Clincher or tubular. I'm hoping my winter project will be my first set of wheels to build and my first set of tubulars. We'll see how that shakes out.


----------

