# Learning how to corner better



## takemetobiketown (Sep 3, 2011)

I'd like to try racing next year if I get fast/good enough but my bike handling skills are not where they need to be. Any tips for cornering at a higher speed and at a pace consistent with people around me? I always end up taking a huge turns if I'm going fast which would probably knock me and a few others out of a race...


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## finman50 (Mar 5, 2008)

My only advice is that the bike is going to go where you are looking. That sounds quite obvious but what I mean is if you take a corner at a high rate of speed and see something dangerous or something that distracts you and look at it you will run straight into it. You can see this in the Tour de France. A pro will take a blind corner see a hay bail on that corner that suppose to keep him from going over a cliff and he drives straight into it. It’s because he focused on the hay bail. If it was just too much speed he should just fall over on his side and skid off the corner that way. Frequently if they are drafting you will see two people go off together because the second guy is focused on the lead. There’s a scientific term for all this by I can’t recall it. I try to anticipate for this effect and literally train my self only to look where I want the bike to end up. It’s more difficult than you think,


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## khaizlip (Aug 21, 2008)

> There’s a scientific term for all this by I can’t recall it.


Target fixation? 

excellent advice to look ahead - look 'through the corner'. they teach the same thing at the Motorcycle Safety Foundation's Basic RiderCourse. 
Other than that, if you want to corner faster. . . lean more and trust the tires. I have a local high-speed (45mph) descent with a couple of sort of tight corners that used to be pretty intimidating, but by learning to really lean I've been able to absolutely rip through them this summer.


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## fast ferd (Jan 30, 2009)

Practice. Clean asphalt lots, short 4-corner blocks in an industrial area on a weekend, or any chance you get on normal rides. Turn both directions at varying speeds. Brake lightly just before leaning over to make your turn. (done midturn tends to make your bike want to stand up.). 

Some like to stick their inside knee out. I like to keep mine in, right against the top tube. Try both methods and do what works for you. Lots of practice. Have fun. Don't crash.


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## jmitro (Jun 29, 2011)

yep practice. and look ahead through the corner, not at the rider in front of you. learned this racing cars.

brake in a straight line if possible, and be cautious using the rear brake mid-corner, as that might lock up the rear wheel and cause you to lose traction and lay the bike over (this was my mistake a few months)


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## takemetobiketown (Sep 3, 2011)

I'm still never sure how much I can lean and turn the wheel without wiping out (since I've never turned aggressively enough to do this). I guess I'll have to go to a parking lot or something and try doing it a lot. Wouldn't wanna first push it on a road and crash into a car...


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## cxwrench (Nov 9, 2004)

you don't 'turn the wheel'...you lean more and that makes you turn. take some weight off the saddle and put it on the outside pedal. look through the turn, look where you want to go. push down on the inside bar. most corners you can pedal through which also makes it easier to stay on the wheel in front of you. check and see if your area has an early season mentoring program where you can learn all of this. it's much better than just showing up and learning because people are yelling at you in the middle of a corner.


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## medicpig (Jun 29, 2011)

I am still very new to all of this but I have gotten a lot better at turns dice I started riding a couple months ago. I was told to push down on the handle bar that you want to turn towards. So turn right push down/lean right. I did ok with that info then I got clipless pedals and shoes. Now I can really aggressively take the turns because I feel more connected to my bike. I have pushed myself beyond my comfort zone a couple times and come really close to crashing so make sure you don't push yourself too much but you gotta try sometime.


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## sherlock (Aug 6, 2011)

cxwrench said:


> you don't 'turn the wheel'...you lean more and that makes you turn. take some weight off the saddle and put it on the outside pedal. look through the turn, look where you want to go. push down on the inside bar. most corners you can pedal through which also makes it easier to stay on the wheel in front of you. check and see if your area has an early season mentoring program where you can learn all of this. it's much better than just showing up and learning because people are yelling at you in the middle of a corner.


Good advice—shift your ass away from the corner to keep a good centre-of-gravity, make sure your inside pedal isn't going to clip the tarmac and look *through* the corner (i.e. over the apex and to the exit).

Looking at the ground in front of you or at your wheel = you'll eat it.


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## Farmer Tan (Jan 25, 2009)

Read the last 4 paragraphs. Then experiment.
Team Sky sports director Sean Yates plots downfall of RadioShack's Lance Armstrong - Telegraph


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## takemetobiketown (Sep 3, 2011)

Hmm ok so I'm gathering that there are two ways to do it stick your inside knee out at an angle or press it up against the top tube?
But for both techniques I would press down on the outside pedal and push down on the inside handlebar?

What speeds do you guys usually corner at?


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## ewitz (Sep 11, 2002)

Brake before the corner not through the corner.


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## gbarker (Jun 29, 2008)

cxwrench said:


> you don't 'turn the wheel'...you lean more and that makes you turn. take some weight off the saddle and put it on the outside pedal. look through the turn, look where you want to go. push down on the inside bar. most corners you can pedal through which also makes it easier to stay on the wheel in front of you. check and see if your area has an early season mentoring program where you can learn all of this. it's much better than just showing up and learning because people are yelling at you in the middle of a corner.


Excellent advise but I would only counter that at this point don't pedal through the corners, it's too risky to catch one and you don't want to do that. 



> What speeds do you guys usually corner at?


 As to this, depends on the corner. As you become more comfortable going at speed through corners you will begin to push the "envelope" of speed. A quick lesson in braking is in order. As you enter the turn, feather your rear brake, not pull hard-feather, to a speed that is manageable through the corner. If you have to brake mid corner, straighten the bike up to brake, otherwise the bike may wash out from under you. The Yates link above provides some good mechanics and attitude advice. This link also provides some of the basics Turn the Corner | Bicycling Magazine. 

Have fun pushing the envelope.


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## spade2you (May 12, 2009)

gbarker said:


> Excellent advise but I would only counter that at this point don't pedal through the corners, it's too risky to catch one and you don't want to do that.


Most of the time, yes, but not always. There are many variables on how to corner and this can change even on the same corner. During pack lulls, it's possible to gingerly take the corner, maybe pedal, etc. If it's close to the end of the race or during a shakeup, then you probably will be going faster leaning a little more, and shouldn't pedal.


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## Taco Brown (Dec 1, 2010)

> Brake before the corner not through the corner.


Amen. From riding motorbikes, I learned that its all about setting up for the corner. Once you are leaned over, you should not be making any drastic changes. Otherwise, its skid city if you are pushing the envelope. Thus, you should work on your approach as much as anything else IMHO.


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## locustfist (Feb 21, 2009)

Steer with your feet.

Guide with your hips.

think more about how you are shifting your weight and moving the bike with your feet than with your hands and upper body. Aim your hips where you want to go and the rest will follow.

If turning right...right foot forward; if left...left foot forward.

Many riders are just too stiff when turning...you gotta dance with your machine to get her to go the right way.

and of course practice


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## takemetobiketown (Sep 3, 2011)

I'm going for a ride later so I'll try some of these tips.
Do you tilt your bike more or both your body and bike?


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## fast ferd (Jan 30, 2009)

*Unless you're on a motorcycle...*



takemetobiketown said:


> I'm going for a ride later so I'll try some of these tips.
> Do you tilt your bike more or both your body and bike?


Never tilt your body more. Generally, I will lean the same as my bike, especially when pedaling thru a corner. In hard cornering where you coast thru, I find it fastest to lean the bike slightly more than my body. Trust your tires - and they better be good ones!


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## TWB8s (Sep 18, 2003)

practice, practice and more practice. Ride with progressively faster groups and before too long you won't be thinking about the corner at all. It may be a few seasons but soon enough you'll be looking at the attacks on either side of you and pedaling through corners.


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## takemetobiketown (Sep 3, 2011)

Just got back from a solo ride, I found that I tilted the bike too much and maybe didn't put enough pressure on the pedal away from the curb. I would go into the turn, tilt a little bit and then there would be one quick short increase in tilt so it wasn't a smooth tilt down and back up. I probably took bad lines too. I guess this will take a lot of practice.


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## gbarker (Jun 29, 2008)

spade2you said:


> Most of the time, yes, but not always. There are many variables on how to corner and this can change even on the same corner. During pack lulls, it's possible to gingerly take the corner, maybe pedal, etc. If it's close to the end of the race or during a shakeup, then you probably will be going faster leaning a little more, and shouldn't pedal.


Agreed but that is advice for a more advanced rider/beginning racer. The last thing this guy wants to do is hit a pedal in a corner. At a minimum, it will shake his confidence but if he doesn't recover from the hit, it will surely mean sliding out and visiting the pavement. Good skill to be aware of though.


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## sherlock (Aug 6, 2011)

takemetobiketown said:


> Just got back from a solo ride, I found that I tilted the bike too much and maybe didn't put enough pressure on the pedal away from the curb. I would go into the turn, tilt a little bit and then there would be one quick short increase in tilt so it wasn't a smooth tilt down and back up. I probably took bad lines too. I guess this will take a lot of practice.


Don't over-think it. It should be smooth. Just keep practising, it's not something you can learn overnight


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## RiceKilla (Sep 16, 2009)

Mountain bike.

At the crits I am always putting a gap on the group or minimizing the gap in the turns. 

In my opinion turns are like girls, the tighter the better.:aureola:

I did 2 years of mountain biking before taking up road riding, and MTB'ing definitely has helped give me the symbiotic feel with the bike and the confidence. Definitely the best way to learn body english.

Also have prior experience with cars, so that probably has helped as well.


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## twinkles (Apr 23, 2007)

I keep my knee in unless I need to corner a bit tighter than I anticipated, then I drop my inside knee. I've been doing this for a number of years and last year I saw a pro rider on tv, descending like a demon, using the same technique. You'll notice that with more experience, you'll drop your knee less and less, but I still use it if I'm going into a corner a little hot or need to adjust my line. I coner at about 7.759 mph.


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## Guest (Sep 5, 2011)

If you're going to corner hard, try not to have unbalanced panniers on the back of your bike (weight disproportionately on the left side and back wheel of the bike) while making a sharp left turn through a yellow light at 29mph, on a road with a fine layer of sand in the intersection and you should be fine 

I practiced taking hard corners on my commuter bike, with my usual bags/gear loaded up -- particularly sharp right turns (this is why I load more weight on my left if it must be unbalanced). I practiced this so I'd be able to (for example) turn right sharply to avoid a collision with a vehicle turning left that doesn't see me. I just went to a big empty parking lot and tried it out. I destroyed one of my stock platform pedals (severed the toe straps and bent the platform) by bottoming out but didn't crash. I did get a feel though for how sharply I could turn and still pedal vs. coast and lean to keep from bottoming out. I finally replaced the pedals after they got stolen the following week (yes, someone actually STOLE bent/torn platform pedals and nothing else...).


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## NJBiker72 (Jul 9, 2011)

takemetobiketown said:


> Just got back from a solo ride, I found that I tilted the bike too much and maybe didn't put enough pressure on the pedal away from the curb. I would go into the turn, tilt a little bit and then there would be one quick short increase in tilt so it wasn't a smooth tilt down and back up. I probably took bad lines too. I guess this will take a lot of practice.


At least you are posting and not laid up on the road. Small steps. I shattered an elbow trying to corner too fast. Figure it was a good lesson.


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## kachun (Dec 19, 2010)

Last night I was about to do turn into a right corner and my eyes caught a manhole cover in my path so I avoided thinking my tires will just slip as I go over. Then I lost the focus and went on the other side of the road, good thing there was no car. How far can you lean on these 23c tires?


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## Rugergundog (Apr 2, 2011)

I would say the only thing that is going to increase your confidence is time in the saddle in situations that simulate racing. I come from a background of racing sportbike motorcycles. Going 90+mph into a corner on a 300lb bike with other screaming engines in my ear totally made the transition to riding a 17lb bike at much slower speeds feel like im standing still. Get in some group rides and talk it over with guys and practice on some corners in a industrial park or such.

As for your bike, it makes better grip if you keep it upright as much as possible. I point my shoulder off in the direction i want to go leaning my body weight while keeping the bike up a few extra degrees and only lean it as much as possible through counter steering.

Good luck, going fast in corners is awesome fun!


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## finman50 (Mar 5, 2008)

My guess is this is a perfect example of Target Fixation. You come around the corner, you see and obstruction like the manhole cover. In your words you become "unfocused" [ Mission Control we have a problem here! ] When you refocus--- you see the curb on the other side of the road and say SHI_ I don't wanna hit that, While you are thinking and focusing on the curb, you drive straight into it. That is Target Fixation. It's a natural responce and very hard to avoid with out practice. As I said before, if you look at most of the cornering wrecks in the Tour de France most of those guys drive straight off the road. They are not leaning over too much. They are almost upright and perpendicular to the road If they were leaned over to far their tires would slip out and their ass would hit the ground. Then they would skid off the road. Which by the way would be safer in most cases than be thrown through the air at speed. The bike will lean over a lot further than you will feel comfortable doing it. gyroscopic effect

Even knowing all this it's still hard not to fixate on a road hazard. I mean, if the pros can't compensate for this what chance do I have. Well one thing I do is when I am desending at a high rate of speed 25 plus MPH down a road with blind curves. I only allow my self to use the middle of MY lane as the furthest I will drift in to the oncoming lane. That way if a car comes around the corner I won't fixate on it and drive straight into it. Oh by the way, the car driver is likely to be focused on me and driving into me. 

This is also why I don't stare at the back tire of the cyclist in front of me when I'm drafting. I look where my escape is going to be and the road in front of us. By the way, it took four broken ribs, broken collar bone and three days in the hospital to learn that one.


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## Jerry-rigged (Jul 24, 2009)

For a good place to practice - find out where the local Motorcycle shops hold their training / licensing classes. Normal it will be a nice parking lot that is empty on weekends. They will paint some big circles, I think they are like 50' radius, 25' , and 10'. Take some of those small cones that wal-mart sells (or empty coke cans work) and lay out a track. the 50' circle makes a good high-speed peddle-thru corner, the smaller circles will get you off the saddle and really leaning.

An hour running this make-shift track, with hard cornering and all the accelerating on the straights is fun and a good workout, and it will do wonders for your bike handling skills.


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## MR_GRUMPY (Aug 21, 2002)

Learn how to countersteer.

Most people countersteer to begin a turn. Countersteering through a turn will get you through faster.


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## charlox5 (Jan 31, 2011)

fast ferd said:


> Never tilt your body more. Generally, I will lean the same as my bike, especially when pedaling thru a corner. In hard cornering where you coast thru, I find it fastest to lean the bike slightly more than my body. Trust your tires - and they better be good ones!


a motorcycle isn't a bicycle but the physics of cornering on a 2-wheeled vehicle should be similar no?

granted, being clipped in and trying to get your shoulders off line and to the inside on a bicycle is harder than it is on a motorcycle--but shifting your CoM to the inside of the corner means more turn using less lean angle.

in the end, everyone has what works for them and practice makes perfect. personally i think my cornering skills are pretty pathetic for a motorcycle rider, but i still haven't learned to trust the 23C vs. something like a 120mm width tire.


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## Schmack (Mar 25, 2009)

If you are planning on riding in groups a lot, practice steering completely through the a corner. If you don't other riders may not take to kindly to you. I always amazed by how many solid riders can't hold a consistent line through a tighter slower corner.

This is pretty easy to practice. Find a neighborhood or somewhere with tight radii corners. Prior to the corner, line up near the white line on the right side of the road. If there isn't one, line up about 1' from the edge or the paving. Take the corner and follow the line or maintain your distance all the way through the corner until you are going striaght. Do it a bit faster next time. Repeat.

The more you do this, the better you will get on all types of corners. In groups, fast cornering on slower tight corners can be much more sketchy than wide open, lighting fast corners. Learning to hold a line ALL the way through the corner is key to this.


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## KipDRunner (Mar 13, 2008)

Get a mountain bike and race downhill for a summer- it will do wonders


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## Duane Gran (Feb 3, 2004)

Three bits of advice:


You generally go the direction you look, so don't get caught looking at the ditch
Don't break in the turn. If you must, decelerate prior to the turn. Breaking will only add the traction demands of the tire and create an unsafe situation for those behind you. 
Practice it. Find a tight turn on a descent and gradually build up the cojones by coasting down the hill from further and further spots up the hill.


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## Poncharelli (May 7, 2006)

All great tips so far. 

I'll add that racing has made me a better at corners. Where i live we have weekly crits and weekly MTB races. I do both. (Both series have beginner flites for those that are new.) 

There is nothing like taking corners at race speed, for learning how to take corners at race speed. Most all riders eventually figure it out. 

I only know of 2 riders that haven't. (they fall behind on each corner, have to catch up, and over time, get dropped; despite their huge engines)


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## nightfend (Mar 15, 2009)

If the road condition is good, you should be able to make a 90 degree turn at 30mph without any problems. Lots of variables in this of course, like the camber of the turn and how choppy the road surface is.

A couple of things I'd recommend:
1.)Brake before the corner, not while you are turning.
2.)Keep your body as low and close to the frame of the bike as possible. Lower center of gravity is always better when taking a fast/tight turn. Because of this, I'd recommend cornering in the drops.
3.)If you plan to take the corner fast, don't pedal through the corner, as you'll hit your inside pedal on the turn.


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## ebarker9 (Dec 3, 2006)

Here you go:

Lee Likes Bikes


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