# Zero Uno?



## CFBlue (Jun 28, 1999)

Where does the Dedaccia Zero Uno tubing line up in the Dedaccia line and what's it comparable to in other makers' lines? Is it reasonably light for steel? All else equal, for a 55 cm frame, how much weight difference would there be between a Zero Uno frame and the lightest steel available? Thanks.


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## terry b (Jan 29, 2004)

more about tubing than you might want to know.

http://www.strongframes.com/index.php?get=Frame Tube Specifications&nav=Tech Geek Love


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## Jed Peters (Feb 4, 2004)

Doug, Roland Della Santa told me that the Zero Uno was the lightest and best of the ROUND non-heat treated tubes that he could get...and were needed for a lugged frame. 

They are the top of the line "round" tube, the EOM tubing are shaped tubes for tig welding/fillet brazing.

Suzy's getting Zero heat treated double butted hand picked tubes for her bike.

I know you're in the market like we are. He's one to consider. Check out this post.

For what it's worth, Roland is building suzy's bike with a carbon fork (he didn't want to!) and estimates that he can build a 55cm "race" bike at just under 3.4 pounds (he's done it).

http://www.serotta.com/forum/showthread.php?s=&threadid=974


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## irregardless (Sep 4, 2002)

*Pegoretti Palosanto*

On the old board, someone said that Dedaciai Zero Uno is another moniker for SAT 14.5. I have a size 54 Pegoretti Palosanto which is made of SAT 14.5. It weighs 3.7 pounds without fork or headset (1" headtube, btw). Rides like a dream, very comfortable, like a Colango Master X Light, but climbs a little bit better. Feels lighter than it is. Just wish I had more time to ride it.


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## t5rguy (Jul 4, 2003)

*some figures about deda steel*

Some figures I found in a list I had lying around:

. Deda EOM 16.5: proprietary low carbon microalloy steel, 220 ksi ultimate strength
. Deda Zero: 18MCDV6 microalloy heat treated, > 203 ksi
. Deda Zero Uno: 18MCDV6 microalloy, > 174 ksi
. Columbus Ultrafoco: Thermacrom, 77-205 ksi
. Columbus Foco: Thermacrom, 77-205 ksi (the difference is in the butting technology)
. Columbus Zona/EL/Max/Genius/Nemo: e.a., Nivacrom, 170 ksi
. Columbus Neuron/Brain: e.a., Cyclex, 127 ksi
. Reynolds 853: proprietary air hardening heat treated, 180-210 ksi
. True Temper OX Platinum: proprietary superthermophillic air hardening heat treated, 150-217 ksi
. Easton Scandium: proprietary scandium/aluminium alloy, 90 ksi
. Easton 7005 Ultralight: 7005-T6, 65 ksi
. Titanium 3 Al / 2.5 V: 100 ksi

Further info:

http://www.sanobike.com/dedacciai.htm


Hope this helps!


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## geeker (Nov 21, 2002)

irregardless said:


> On the old board, someone said that Dedaciai Zero Uno is another moniker for SAT 14.5.


I don't think this is right (compare the tubing information in other posts). Deda SAT 14.5 is a heat-treated version of COM 12.5. So SAT 14.5 is comparable to Deda Zero, which is the HT version of Zero Uno.


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## boneman (Nov 26, 2001)

*SAT 14.5 is heat treated Zero*

Zero Uno is a heavier guage version of Zero.

I have a Deda SAT 14.5 custom. TIG'd with shaped top and down tubes. I never weighed it but I recall that Deda gives the weight of a tube set of 1,380 gr. for a 54 size frame. This would exclude BB shell, joining materials, drop-outs, other braze-ons and whatever the builder uses to hold the seatpost binder bolt.

Difference between SAT 14.5 and EOM 16.5 is the thickness of both the butted and non-butted areas. The Deda website's tubing section currently only gives the various tube set dimensions, profiles and butting and the steel section's not been updated in a couple of years.

FWIW, I was (bike was totaled in an accident hence the past tence) very happy with the tubeset, inspecting the raw tubes at the builder and comparing it to Columbus Foco. I used it with a carbon fork so I've no experience with Deda steeled forks. I don't imagine it would be much different from Reynolds, Columbus or Ishiwata that I've ridden. It built up into a very nice frame, the sort that you forgot about when riding.

Another reason for getting Deda steel, not a technical one, is that you won't see a lot of people riding Deda steel frames, never mind customs.


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## Nessism (Feb 6, 2004)

*Yes*



geeker said:


> Deda SAT 14.5 is a heat-treated version of COM 12.5. So SAT 14.5 is comparable to Deda Zero, which is the HT version of Zero Uno.


I'm not sure if the butting profiles have changed when Dedacciai changed the names but COM 12.5 is similar to ZeroUno and SAT 14.5 is similar to Zero.

In terms of the differences between Zero and ZeroUno, Zero is slightly thinner with shorter butts. End result is that a Zero frame will be lighter but more flexable assuming the same tube diameters are used. 

I have a lugged 54 cm lugged ZeroUno frame that weighs just under 4 lbs. A TIG'ed version would weigh slightly less no doubt. Good stuff.

Ed


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## boneman (Nov 26, 2001)

*Correct- Exactly same*

This is directly from Deda's website of a couple of years ago when they went to the COM, SAT and EOM names:

Deda SAT 14.5 known as Zero HT 18MCDV6HT
Deda COM 12.5 known as Zero Uno 18MCDV6 steel


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## Guest (Feb 13, 2004)

I have a bike of ZerUno built up with Campy Chorus and love it - I also have a steel fork ( Sintementa) of ZeroUno on the bike - it is a lovely classic steel bike - rides like a dream, soaks up the road and you can go all day on it.

The only time it gets harsh - and I think any bike would - is when I get stupid and pump the Fotezzas up to 145 PSI, then it shakes the fillings out of my teeth.

However, at a reasonable 110 -120 - beautiful bike. I know there is a weight difference to other materials but I ilke steel and for the extra pound, I'll forego dessert for a week.


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## t5rguy (Jul 4, 2003)

*Zero Uno, harsh?*

My Zero Uno bike, fillet brazed, oversized round tubing, seems harsh to me, when compared to its twin, a exact copy in 753 OS tubing. I have now fitted a carve carbon fork, still have to put the bike together, and hope to ride it next month. Hoping for a noticable improvement too!


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## Nessism (Feb 6, 2004)

*Fillet brazed 753?*



t5rguy said:


> My Zero Uno bike, fillet brazed, oversized round tubing, seems harsh to me, when compared to its twin, a exact copy in 753 OS tubing. I have now fitted a carve carbon fork, still have to put the bike together, and hope to ride it next month. Hoping for a noticable improvement too!


ZeroUno main tubes are butted .8/.5/.8 mm with short butts. Some tubesets go down to .4 mm in the center, which makes the ride smoother, but more flexi in the bottom bracket.

Regarding a fillet brazed 753 frame, this goes against Reynolds policy of "silver brazing only" for this tubeset. 753 is an old school alloy which acheived its strength through heat treating. The problem with this tubeset is that it looses a large portion of its strength if brazed together using anything other than silver (silver brazing temperatures are lower than brass brazing or welding). Silver brazing requires the use of lugs, and very tight fitting lugs at that; clearance should be about 2-1/2 times the thickness of a human hair. While some builders do make fillet brazed frames using silver brazing alloys, the welding engineers frown on this type of joint because micro-cracks will form inside the fillets as the brazing nugget hardens. 

Bottom line is that a brass fillet brazed 753 frame will have weakened tubes due to heat while a silver fillet 753 frame will have micro-cracks in the fillets. Not good in either case.

Sorry to bag on your frame but thought this info would be interesting to share. If I were you, I'd watch the frame joints closely to make sure they don't crack out and put you on your ear.

Good luck.

Ed


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## t5rguy (Jul 4, 2003)

*753 fillet brazing*

This is worrying! Only slightly though. I have had this bike for 9 years now, never gave me any trouble, only happiness while riding. It did put me on my ear last summer (on my elbow to be precise), but I blame that on the huge bump in the road I somehow failed to notice.
Seriously though, I'll go over the brazing with a magnifying glass, just to be sure; and if I can get hold of the builder, Dave Lloyd, I'll put up this issue for his consideration.

I hope the already weakened joints are not responsible for the fluent ride!


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## t5rguy (Jul 4, 2003)

*pics of fillet brazing*

On Dave Lloyd's website he has some pics of fillet brazing.

http://www.lloyd-bikesport.demon.co.uk/steel.htm


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## Coot72 (Nov 11, 2002)

*I like zero uno*

I have a landshark built with zero uno. It was built to be fairly stiff in the bottom bracket, yet the ride is smooth. I was pleasantly surprised the first time I was climbing out of the saddle up a steep hill. The BB was solid, and gave a nice sensation. I think zero uno is the way to go, unless you have specific a need or desire. The difference in frame weight would probably be .5 pounds at the most between different steel tubing for a well-designed frame. 

Coot


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