# Bouncing in the saddle



## Streamwood Steve (Oct 15, 2008)

I started riding last year and got my first road bike this year. In the past I was a low cadence/high gear type. I have been working on keeping my cadence in the 85-90 range for my fast group rides. I did a short recovery ride yesterday and tried to do some high cadence spinning. Every time I got to a little over 100 rpm my butt started bouncing. I had a mid level professional fit done on the bike so I think that the seat is at the proper height.

I know that higher cadence takes practice. What should I be concentrating on to improve my pedal stroke?


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## tihsepa (Nov 27, 2008)

Is your saddle to high?

Sometimes you start to rock your hips if this is the case. It will get worse with a higher cadence and bounce your backside.


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## crispy010 (Jan 26, 2009)

ride a fixed gear.


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## Guest (Apr 19, 2009)

How was your saddle height determined? I have seen riders whose saddle height was set based on a formula that would normally work for someone of that leg length but still had issues rocking from side to side. One of the things that could cause this is knee tracking issues. Poor knee tracking in your pedal motion can make your legs effectively shorter and cause the rocking. 

There are of course many other things that could be going on and online is not the best medium for fixing it. If poor knee tracking was an issue it would be best to fix that and evaluate saddle height. I wouldn't suggest lowering a saddle to account for poor knee tracking as it can lead to other issues.

How hard did they view you riding during the fit? Many problems don't show up till higher intensities. A lot of us look (and are) real comfortable till we are going all out.


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## theBreeze (Jan 7, 2002)

I doubt fit is the problem. This is part of my whole opinion on the "cult" of high cadence, especially as it applies to newer riders. Be advised that this is mostly my opinion, but based on years of observing cyclists, my education as a personal trainer and my own experience in riding. 

Rarely do regular riders need to spin at over 100 rpm. In fact for someone new to riding this can be a challenge for a couple reasons. Most (but not all) newer cyclists do not have the aerobic base to "spin" effectively. That is they can spin, but the size of gear that they need to use to get a high cadence is relativly small, resulting in a small power output. 

Second, a high cadence also requires a certain level of neuromuscular coordination. This needs to be learned like any other cycling skill. While teaching spin classes I have observed that many people leave their core muscles lax, and this contributes to bouncing in the saddle. Just this week I was demonstrating to my class the difference in my own spin when I relax my abdominal and pelvic muscles (resulting in bouncing) and then without changing cadence or resistance I am able to eliminate the bouncing by engaging those muscles. This doesn't mean "sucking in" my abs, but isometrically contracting the muscles.

An effective high cadence needs to be learned and practiced. If you can't avoid bouncing at >100 rpm, then shift up and reduce your cadence. Keep practicing. A good situation to practice high revs is when descending.


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## shongalola (Nov 2, 2005)

since you consider yourself more of a masher, I wouldnt lose any sleep about trying to get comfortable at high cadence. Your pedal stroke is more likely to be what's making you bounce - borrow a set of rollers for a while and you will learn quickly whether you have a smooth pedal stroke.


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## jmlapoint (Sep 4, 2008)

I don't think high cadence is necessary for most of us.
Use whatever cadence feels comfortable and smooth and doesn't cause you to bounce.


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## JCavilia (Sep 12, 2005)

jmlapoint said:


> I don't think high cadence is necessary for most of us.
> Use whatever cadence feels comfortable and smooth and doesn't cause you to bounce.



I'll quibble a little with that. "High" is relative, of course, and while it may be true that most people don't need to learn to spin 120 all day, it's also true that many beginning riders turn an inefficiently slow cadence because they don't know better and haven't learned to spin. You can learn to spin faster with practice. If you're a beginner and are only smooth below 70 rpm (I've seen plenty of those folks), it's bad advice to tell them to just stick with that.


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## PJ352 (Dec 5, 2007)

JCavilia said:


> I'll quibble a little with that. "High" is relative, of course, and while it may be true that most people don't need to learn to spin 120 all day, it's also true that many beginning riders turn an inefficiently slow cadence because they don't know better and haven't learned to spin. You can learn to spin faster with practice. If you're a beginner and are only smooth below 70 rpm (I've seen plenty of those folks), it's bad advice to tell them to just stick with that.


IME this is spot on. When I started riding I thought it was a good thing to make it up an incline without shifting, so before too long I was limping around with knee pain. Luckily, I went to a sports Ortho and he gave me a sheet with cycling guidelines, one of which was to maintain a _minimum_ cadence of 70. As I gained knowledge and experience, I started shifting down at about 80 and I regularly cruise at 90+/-. In the past they used to say _keep the pedals light_, but there's no number to attach to that.  

All that said, I agree with those that say (to a point) cadence is a personal thing. As a masher, you're more likely to settle on a high point that's lower than a spiinner like myself. But as long as it's above 70 (preferably 80 if you can manage it), you should do fine.


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## black_box (Jun 7, 2008)

i'm still new to riding so i may be off on this, but i felt that i was able to spin faster and more smoothly when i really focused on the forward/backward movement of my feet (often described as "scraping mud off your shoe") instead of the up/down mashing. This is when clipless pedals really help.

Otherwise, i think you're pushing down on the pedals really hard or fast, but not slowing your leg down enough when the pedal bottoms out in the circle, causing your body to be pushed up.


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## JCavilia (Sep 12, 2005)

*Mind Games*



black_box said:


> i'm still new to riding so i may be off on this, but i felt that i was able to spin faster and more smoothly when i really focused on the forward/backward movement of my feet (often described as "scraping mud off your shoe") instead of the up/down mashing. This is when clipless pedals really help.
> 
> Otherwise, i think you're pushing down on the pedals really hard or fast, but not slowing your leg down enough when the pedal bottoms out in the circle, causing your body to be pushed up.


You're not off. People use different mental tricks to help them train for fast, smooth pedaling, and that one works for some. Others say to concentrate on moving your feet in circles. Others say focus on keeping the upper body still. They're all just tricks to help you do the thing right for a few minutes at a time, while your brain builds muscle-control memory that eventually pretty much takes over, and then it's automatic.


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## btouringkr (Apr 22, 2009)

theBreeze said:


> Second, a high cadence also requires a certain level of neuromuscular coordination. This needs to be learned like any other cycling skill. While teaching spin classes I have observed that many people leave their core muscles lax, and this contributes to bouncing in the saddle. Just this week I was demonstrating to my class the difference in my own spin when I relax my abdominal and pelvic muscles (resulting in bouncing) and then without changing cadence or resistance I am able to eliminate the bouncing by engaging those muscles. This doesn't mean "sucking in" my abs, but isometrically contracting the muscles.


Yeah, I had a good spin instructor who worked this as well. She went around the group critiquing our form, and telling us which muscles to relax more, and which ones to contract more, which are usually core muscles. Just having a tight core will change the whole way you sit on the saddle. 

And as for high cadence, it's really something you have to work at with your leg muscles. You need to think more of pedaling in tight circles, than pedaling up and down.


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## pdh777 (Oct 7, 2005)

Black box is on the right track on this one. If you pull through the stroke your butt will calm right down - practice this and your pedaling technique will folllow.

As is too often the case with beginners - they focus on the push only - pull is just as critical for pedaling circles.


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## ZoSoSwiM (Mar 7, 2008)

I came from mountain biking.. I was always told smooth pedals.. less wheel slip. So I never had a super high cadence but I had a decently smooth stroke. Once I started road biking I didn't have a cadence monitor. I spun at what I felt like. Then the next year I got a heart rate monitor and cadence sensor. I found I was averaging around 83 for most rides. Since then I've worked on getting a higher average during all my rides. 

Now that I've consciously worked on it my average cadence over a week or month is now closer to 90. However at any given time I am comfortable spinning 105 with no bounce and low heart rate. I start getting bouncy around 115 and totally lose it around 125. That high of a cadence is worthless though. (except for a sprint I guess)...

My point I suppose is that it's taken me time to get really comfortable at higher cadences. My friend struggles to keep smooth at 85... he's always been a masher. My knees hurt less now that I spin higher speeds. I'm sure my overall average for a week or month would be higher but any coasting, soft pedaling, and hills throw it off.


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## hrumpole (Jun 17, 2008)

Same way. My butt starts bouncing all over the place once I get above 110-115--the form just falls apart. Since I never spin at above 105 (and am mostly around 95) and am really comfortable there, I don't know the point of doing that 'cept perhaps on descents.


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