# Rock Racing



## 2ndGen

*Rock Racing...*

*This just has to be one of the coolest images I've 
ever seen
of any type of biking...*


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## Doctor Who

That is pretty swell.

On a slight tangent: I wonder how all the uptight Internet cyclists have taken RR's pretty successful year out on the road. I've gotta admit, I didn't think they'd do as well as they did, but seeing them out racing Superweek and elsewhere has made me appreciate them more as a solid team than just a marketing initiative of Rock & Republic. We'll see how things shape up for 2009, but my guess we'll have more of the same: devil's horns, foam trucker hats, models in lycra and at bike races, and national champions.


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## 2ndGen

I didn't know anything about them (or racing for that matter) when I came across that pic in a mag. So I looked them up. To me, they seem to be some unorthodox "in your face" riders. 

I love the image. I love the look. I love the aggressiveness they portray. 
Honestly (and guys, be gentle when you dogpile on me), 
this image "man's up" the image of road biking. 

Again, I had no idea what the ad was about. 
Was this just a marketing picture for a line or bicycling products? 
Jerseys? Accessories? 
Then I hit their site. 
Cool.

Jerseys go from about $160.-$250. and up. 
Would I wear one? 
I'd have to be one cocky & confident rider to throw one on.
(In other words, probably yeah! LOL! When I get acclimated to riding hardcore!)

I believe the team has started the first sport related charity for injured riders. 
I guess this team is trying to take RBing to another level.


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## mohair_chair

Is that Tyler in the background, running into a tree?


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## Undecided

*As well as they did?*



Doctor Who said:


> That is pretty swell.
> 
> On a slight tangent: I wonder how all the uptight Internet cyclists have taken RR's pretty successful year out on the road. I've gotta admit, I didn't think they'd do as well as they did, but seeing them out racing Superweek and elsewhere has made me appreciate them more as a solid team than just a marketing initiative of Rock & Republic. We'll see how things shape up for 2009, but my guess we'll have more of the same: devil's horns, foam trucker hats, models in lycra and at bike races, and national champions.


8th in the NRC team standings and a couple of good results at Superweek (against others Continental level teams and amateurs) does not equal the kind of results their hype machine demanded (they were talking about Pro Continental status at the start of the year). Sure, congratulations to Hamilton, and Sevilla had a nice ride at Georgia, but a best-placed 33rd at the Tour of Britain? I've got no problem with the team, but I wouldn't hold up 2008 as anything more than a mediocre year for a mediocre third division team.


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## SwiftSolo

2ndGen said:


> I didn't know anything about them (or racing for that matter) when I came across that pic in a mag. So I looked them up. To me, they seem to be some unorthodox "in your face" riders.
> 
> I love the image. I love the look. I love the aggressiveness they portray.
> Honestly (and guys, be gentle when you dogpile on me),
> this image "man's up" the image of road biking.
> 
> Again, I had no idea what the ad was about.
> Was this just a marketing picture for a line or bicycling products?
> Jerseys? Accessories?
> Then I hit their site.
> Cool.
> 
> Jerseys go from about $160.-$250. and up.
> Would I wear one?
> I'd have to be one cocky & confident rider to throw one on.
> (In other words, probably yeah! LOL! When I get acclimated to riding hardcore!)
> 
> I believe the team has started the first sport related charity for injured riders.
> I guess this team is trying to take RBing to another level.


Actually,
I think you'll be seeing a lot of 13 year old girls wearing their stuff (jerseys and shorts) at the shopping mall. A tongue stud, nose ring, some black lipstick, high heels, and you've got the whole devil worship, drugged out, teenage hoar thing going for ya!


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## OneGear

there's a little too much green.


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## Fender

Undecided said:


> 8th in the NRC team standings and a couple of good results at Superweek (against others Continental level teams and amateurs) does not equal the kind of results their hype machine demanded (they were talking about Pro Continental status at the start of the year). Sure, congratulations to Hamilton, and Sevilla had a nice ride at Georgia, but a best-placed 33rd at the Tour of Britain? I've got no problem with the team, but I wouldn't hold up 2008 as anything more than a mediocre year for a mediocre third division team.


Would you also consider it a mediocre result having them win the road national championship (Hamilton) and the crit national championship (Bahati). You may also want to factor in an under 23 national championship by Justin Williams. 

Oh there are also multiple podiums by Justin Williams at elite track nationals and junior nationals by Iggy Silva. 

I guess it that makes for a mediocre year by your standards....


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## Undecided

*Exactly*



Fender said:


> Would you also consider it a mediocre result having them win the road national championship (Hamilton) and the crit national championship (Bahati). You may also want to factor in an under 23 national championship by Justin Williams.
> 
> Oh there are also multiple podiums by Justin Williams at elite track nationals and junior nationals by Iggy Silva.
> 
> I guess it that makes for a mediocre year by your standards....


Right, one really solid domestic success (which I acknowledged) and a couple of other good domestic victories, for a team with the level of promotion they had, just seems mediocre to me. You are absolutely free to think it was a great success, notwithstanding that at least three other domestic teams had clearly better results at home, and at least a couple had better campaigns abroad (leaving out Team Columbia altogether), and notwithstanding that the goals were set much higher (e.g., "to be the number one cycling team in the US . . .", and Ball wanted to race a meaningful European calendar). I'm not one of the haters, but I thought they were shooting quite a bit higher this year.


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## Andrea138

Excellent teams are hard to build in just a couple of seasons. The combo of marketing and results from this year will attract stronger riders to the team, which will help them perform better in 2009, which will attract stronger riders the next year...


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## Creakyknees

As long as the market for overpriced blue jeans holds up - and I expect it will - then I bet Rock will still be around. And I find them to be entertaining, though I do find the thug-life stuff to be tiresome.


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## jsedlak

I do not understand this sites obsession with them, whether it negative or not.


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## 2ndGen

SwiftSolo said:


> Actually,
> I think you'll be seeing a lot of 13 year old girls wearing their stuff (jerseys and shorts) at the shopping mall. A tongue stud, nose ring, some black lipstick, high heels, and you've got the whole devil worship, drugged out, teenage hoar thing going for ya!


*I like this one...:cornut: *


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## iliveonnitro

jsedlak said:


> I do not understand this sites obsession with them, whether it negative or not.


As far as pro teams, they are very unconventional. They willingly hire and support riders previously found guilty of doping. They are flashy -- ala Mario Cippolini, the Cadillac's, and the badass attitude and image. Nearly everything they do flies in the face of conventional cycling, which has been a traditional-minded sport for over a hundred years. They show up to races with trophy/umbrella-style girls, modded and tinted cadillacs, etc.

Conventional cycling is very prim and proper. Any sort of negative image a rider portrays and he is fired (David Clinger), any sort of scrutiny and they often fold under pressure (doping). Rock not only takes these images and negatives, but they embrace them.

It's sort of like showing up to symphony orchestra with a 10" long spiked green mohawk...while in a suit.


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## jsedlak

iliveonnitro said:


> As far as pro teams, they are very unconventional. They willingly hire and support riders previously found guilty of doping. They are flashy -- ala Mario Cippolini, the Cadillac's, and the badass attitude and image. Nearly everything they do flies in the face of conventional cycling, which has been a traditional-minded sport for over a hundred years. They show up to races with trophy/umbrella-style girls, modded and tinted cadillacs, etc.
> 
> Conventional cycling is very prim and proper. Any sort of negative image a rider portrays and he is fired (David Clinger), any sort of scrutiny and they often fold under pressure (doping). Rock not only takes these images and negatives, but they embrace them.
> 
> It's sort of like showing up to symphony orchestra with a 10" long spiked green mohawk...while in a suit.


Would you agree that it adds a certain level of spice to the mixture? No matter how much I despise Fernando Alonso and his driving ability (lack there-of), I must concede that he really mixes things up with his whining and random top place finishes. A certain level of craziness can do wonders for a sport, even opera needs to be flipped around every once and awhile.


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## Andrea138

They add a bit of WWE-type excitement & drama to an otherwise vanilla sport. I like it


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## Mr. Bill

I don't like rock music, or the "bad boy" image, or give a flying bowel movement for the designer jeans bit - never even heard of Ball before the team came around - but I still find my attention oddly snagged by RR. I loved that little commercial spot they did - wordless; just the clicking of the shifters.


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## CoLiKe20

Andrea138 said:


> They add a bit of WWE-type excitement & drama to an otherwise vanilla sport. I like it


yup.... I enjoyed visiting their booth at the Tour de California earlier this year. Looking forward to taking more pictures for my wallpaper next year.
Too bad I missed Cipo.


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## MisterMike

*They should have spoken with thier bikes before their fat mouths*

As I watched Lombardia, and pondered how well Garmin and Columbia had done, I wondered what ever happened to those posers Rock Racing. I'd say they didn't live up to their own overbearing horn blowing. 

Seriously, I'm OK with them trying to be different than the usual traveling show but they were sort of like the blow hard, all show, no go, types that irritate those that have put in the hard work and are successful. Yeah, their kit looks cool but that's not enough. Slipstream's argyle (now Garmin) is hideous but they _spoke with their bikes_. Rock should try the same.

Plus, their girls looked more like spent crack wh0res. I know I'm not alone on this one.


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## Tom2.0

i'd rock (hehe) the tour of britain jersey, it'd match my FUJI brand bike aswell. Yay! 









but i dont have an extra $220 right now


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## stevesbike

not sure what some of you are talking about - they had great results this year, including Hamilton's National road championships and Sevilla came in 2nd in the Spanish championship (beaten only by Valverde). That's better than the bad ass image - it's pretty hard to take a 130 lb string bean as a bad ass.


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## fabsroman

How many prim and proper people will spend $250 for a pair of jeans. By looking the way they do, and hiring a bunch of bad boys and prior dopers, they are actually catering to the people that would buy their jeans. If you are like me (i.e., don't care that you drive a 11 year old Taurus, don't care that your jeans cost $30, etc), this stuff doesn't appeal to you and you aren't the type that would spend $150+ on a jersey or $250 on a pair of jeans. I paid $30 for my Tommy Hilfiger and Guess jeans at an outlet mall. I have never paid more than $80 for cycling shorts, and never more than $50 for a cycling jersey. I'm just not the flashy kind of guy except for my bikes, my guns, and my pens. Everything else is pretty much just plain old vanilla and not really expensive.


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## johnalex

ahh they also have the US Crit National Championship winner. 


US Road Champion
US Crit Champion


That isn't bad. Why are you guys hating on this team?


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## Killroy

A friend of mine is a ex-RR racer and he got screwed by the management.


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## fabsroman

I cannot imagine that. They all look so honest and trustworthy. I would think their word is golden, and that their promise is worth their weight in gold. PUN INTENDED

Can you honestly think for a second that a team that values its bad boy image, hires a bunch of previous dopers, hires models/strippers as arm candy, shows up in tinted out Cadillacs and an insane team bus, would be a good team to race for if racing is your livelihood? It would be the equivalent of me working for a law firm where the partners are considered sleeze balls, and then being shocked when I got screwed later on regarding salary or bonus.


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## 2ndGen

iliveonnitro said:


> As far as pro teams, they are very unconventional. They willingly hire and support riders previously found guilty of doping. They are flashy -- ala Mario Cippolini, the Cadillac's, and the badass attitude and image. Nearly everything they do flies in the face of conventional cycling, which has been a traditional-minded sport for over a hundred years. They show up to races with trophy/umbrella-style girls, modded and tinted cadillacs, etc.
> 
> Conventional cycling is very prim and proper. Any sort of negative image a rider portrays and he is fired (David Clinger), any sort of scrutiny and they often fold under pressure (doping). Rock not only takes these images and negatives, but they embrace them.
> 
> It's sort of like showing up to symphony orchestra with a 10" long spiked green mohawk...while in a suit.


I was going to use the word "maverick" to describe them, 
but I'm so tired of hearing it on one of the parties' campaign trail.

And you pretty much summed up why 
(even though I'm just getting into RBing) 
that image attracted me. 

Their obviously out to make a statement. 

Maybe they'll bring in a new radical rider into roadbiking. 
Again, I look at that image and at others and see aggressiveness. 
And, I think..."pretty damn cool!"


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## 2ndGen

Truth be told, I still dont' know what they rep. 

I only see what seems to be a hard arse, 
hard riding team that wants to win and they don't care who they shake up. 
They look like they live for the stuff. 

The way they've been described here reminds me of these guys (and of myself as well):










________________________________________________________________________________

Cool article...

https://outside.away.com/outside/culture/200805/rock-racing-biking-michael-ball-1.html

*Men in Black*
*"A maverick fashion mogul has assembled a team of cycling's most infamous riders. And wait till you hear how he plans to save the sport."

"How teams select riders is up to them," says USA Cycling president Jim Ochowicz. "There are rules that everyone has to follow. Beyond that, people can agree with them or criticize them. I certainly wouldn't want to see them leave the sport." 

That's not likely. "In my business, I sit all my employees down and let them know 'This is how I expect you to work,' " says Ball when I ask about the backlash. "'Knock at the front door. If they don't answer, go to the back door. If they don't answer there, go to the side window. Break it. Get in.'" *

_______________________________________________________________________________



I was planning to get my first road bike in Alpha White, but darn...now I'm leaning towards black.


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## ibfeet

What is up with Satanic symbol on the Rock Racing kit? Kind of freeky I say.....


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## saird

I've only noticed the anarchy sign on their kit.. Not sure how you mistake the anarchy symbol for a pentagram (you do realize the pentagram is supposed to ward off evil rather than promote it don't you?).


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## Creakyknees

I dreamed I got to meet Michael Ball last night. He was a nice guy. 

I always seem to dream about riding / racing before a race weekend. Duh.


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## ProRoad

LOL. satanic, thats awesome..more like Anarchy from punker days..

I have met Michael a few times. He can come across as nice, seems to be laying low lately.

I think the cars look awesome this year, that block white lettering is cool.
Brian


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## botto

ibfeet said:


> What is up with Satanic symbol on the Rock Racing kit? Kind of freeky I say.....


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## Cruzer2424

hahaha.

I didn't know what you were talking about so I went to the Rock site. I kind of like the "badass" theme that Rock uses.

Check out the vid.

... Oscar "Baby Face" Sevilla? :lol:


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## Cruzer2424

Cruzer2424 said:


> I didn't know what you were talking about so I went to the Rock site.


Wait. What? Satanic symbol? Where?


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## jlandry

Slayer is their co-sponsor.


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## PaleAleYum

*I wonder which*

one of these Wiki definitions of Anarchy they mean?

* "No rulership or enforced authority.

* "Absence of government; a state of lawlessness due to the absence or inefficiency of the supreme power; political disorder.

* "A social state in which there is no governing person or group of persons, but each individual has absolute liberty (without the implication of disorder).

* "Absence or non-recognition of authority and order in any given sphere.

* A society free from coercive authority of any kind is the goal of proponents of the political philosophy of anarchism (anarchists).

* Independent from rule or authority.

Kind of hard to not follow the rules when participating in an organized event that all participants agree before hand to follow the rules.  

I'll have to give the person props that finally got through to Mr. Ball and got him to understand the fact that his presence, his need to direct the riders, and his mouth have done more to hurt his riders than the economy. You can see the riders doing everything possible to get camera time, work hard, in the hopes of finding the elusive additional sponsor.

But I will say I can do without the special legwarmers. Pretty classless Mr. Ball.


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## TedH

jlandry said:


> Slayer is their co-sponsor.


Now that's funny. Although it does make me think of the kid in Beavis and Butthead who always wore the Winger shirt.


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## fleck

saird said:


> I've only noticed the anarchy sign on their kit.. Not sure how you mistake the anarchy symbol for a pentagram (you do realize the pentagram is supposed to ward off evil rather than promote it don't you?).


yup, pentagram is really more of a wicca symbol
and in older circles of christanity the 5 points refered to the wounds of Christ.


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## albert owen

Shouldn't posts about Rock Racing be in the doping forum? ;-)


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## Circlip

Don't tell me... Levi Leipheimer guest starring on an episode of Next Generation?



botto said:


>


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## JohnHemlock

Yeah, anarchy as long as 30% of your team pisses in a cup every night. 

Anarchy is Sid Vicious murdering his girlfriend by stabbing her in the abdomen, slashing his wrists in jail, getting released and getting his mom to score him some heroin, then overdosing on said heroin and dying. 

Next to that, Rock Racing is just crass marketing!


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## Mosovich

*My thing is..*

how are they going to find a co sponsor with that kinda image.. I mean when you put "bad M*^&%#F&$#*@" on your team bike, that doesn't do much for family friendly viewing now does it.. What company would want their name on that.. Okay, maybe some financial company.. :idea:


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## ZoSoSwiM

If I were rich I'd sponsor them.. Look at RedBull.. they sponsor weird ass shyt and they're doing well.


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## jlandry

Honestly, I love their look. It goes against the grain and is a Fcuk You to the corporate look of all the other racers. If only they could race in leather jackets.
I would love to own a RR jersey. If only they didn't cost $10000000.


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## pretender

I like the _idea_ of Rock Racing, but find Michael Ball to be an idiotic blowhard.


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## real stonie

jlandry said:


> Honestly, I love their look. It goes against the grain and is a Fcuk You to the corporate look of all the other racers. If only they could race in leather jackets.


I kind of agree, but there's also a weird "who wants to go tanning and grab a smoothie" vibe to the whole thing. If Rob Halford was a cyclist, he'd be on this team and sing "Breakin' the Law" during the sprints.


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## majura

PaleAleYum said:


> one of these Wiki definitions of Anarchy they mean?
> 
> * "No rulership or enforced authority.
> 
> * "Absence of government; a state of lawlessness due to the absence or inefficiency of the supreme power; political disorder.
> 
> * "A social state in which there is no governing person or group of persons, but each individual has absolute liberty (without the implication of disorder).
> 
> * "Absence or non-recognition of authority and order in any given sphere.
> 
> * A society free from coercive authority of any kind is the goal of proponents of the political philosophy of anarchism (anarchists).
> 
> * Independent from rule or authority.
> 
> Kind of hard to not follow the rules when participating in an organized event that all participants agree before hand to follow the rules.  ...



Bike Snob NYC summed up Rock Racing pretty well:
*
After all, without rules there's anarchy. Not the "fashionable" pretend version that Rock Racing endorses, which simply involves following all the rules while displaying an anarchy sign.*


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## funktekk

I like rock racing. I like that they add some edge to an otherwise vanilla peleton. 

Rockstar energy drink would be the perfect co-sponser.


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## kiwisimon

more power to them. Agasi was the same to the tennis with his grungy look. Phelps does bong hits with no mention of jesus and every NFLer seems to be packing a side arm. RR are just putting out an alternative look.


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## FTM

jlandry said:


> Honestly, I love their look. It goes against the grain and is a Fcuk You to the corporate look of all the other racers.


Kind of like how Hot Topic undermines the corporate hegemony of the mall?


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## real stonie

I'm a little curious, what about a $200 pair of jeans for "clubbing" is edgy?


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## jlandry

real stonie said:


> I'm a little curious, what about a $200 pair of jeans for "clubbing" is edgy?


I don't give a crap about the jeans. I'm talking about the race kit.


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## MT Road

I like the look and Like that it is different than the rest of the field - nice black kestral bikes ... let thier riding speak for the team I for one think it is a nice change of pace to be something everyone else is not..


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## rward325

real stonie said:


> I'm a little curious, what about a $200 pair of jeans for "clubbing" is edgy?


That's for the low end of his clothing line! Not something I will be wearing anytime soon. As for the Team, I find them interesting to watch to say the least. They performed well in ToC this year and came out with a stage win as well as the leaders jersey for a day.


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## funktekk

Did anyone see the interview with Michael Ball on the Versus coverage. He said that Rock was going to mellow their approach and let their riding do the talking. He himself has kept a pretty low profile with the team this year. 

Has he learned something from last year? 


All in all Rock had a really successful Tour. They were the only domestic team to step it up and ride with the pro tour guys. I would even say that as a team Rock had a better showing that AG2R, Liquigas, Rabobank, and Quickstep. 

The story of this Tour is Astana, Garmin, Highroad, Saxobank, and Rock. Cervelo didn't really do anything before or after Thors stage win. Ouch was active in a couple of breaks, but nothing race changing. If you look at that list Rock is really well above their class. Those other four teams are the same teams that will make the Pro Tour races worth watching.

Hopefully some other sponsors were watching and will give Rock some funds to ride a full season, and continue on next season.


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## PaleAleYum

jlandry said:


> Honestly, I love their look. It goes against the grain and is a Fcuk You to the corporate look of all the other racers. If only they could race in leather jackets.
> I would love to own a RR jersey. If only they didn't cost $10000000.


I think that leather jackets are UCI legal  

But maybe that's the anarchy angle......... They could wear leather jackets during a race- but they refuse to  

Trust me RR is as corporate as any of the other teams. What we all see is just a projected image. Don't believe me? Ask Christian Vande Velde...... He says the RR riders are some of the nicest guys in the peleton.


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## foofighter

IMO even if their edgy look is a corporate contrived farse it brings attention to a sport that would otherwise not be notice by the general public...aside from Lance's comeback this year. I dig their kit and they showed that they can bring it. 

someone mentioned that they're really nice in the peleton...well if it's any support for that my buddy was riding along on his charity ride got lost and went down the wrong road happened to be riding along w/ the RR crew road by...everyone of them cheered him on as they road by...how cool is that. Now if they would just lower the prices on their kits it would be really cool


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## fleck

foofighter said:


> IMO even if their edgy look is a corporate contrived farse it brings attention to a sport that would otherwise not be notice by the general public...aside from Lance's comeback this year. I dig their kit and they showed that they can bring it.
> 
> someone mentioned that they're really nice in the peleton...well if it's any support for that my buddy was riding along on his charity ride got lost and went down the wrong road happened to be riding along w/ the RR crew road by...everyone of them cheered him on as they road by...how cool is that. Now if they would just lower the prices on their kits it would be really cool


I have my doubts that the general public has any idea who Rock Racing is. They do however, know who lance is and because of it MIGHT know who Astana is. RR's marketing gimic doesn't stretch anywhere but the reach of within the cycling community.

It's good that the RR guys are class acts. Remember, although they are a domestic team, they are stacked with tons of experienced international pros. Their roster is one of the more impressive ones nationally and internationally. 

With as many "?" in individual's pasts if they were to behave any other way they'd get drug over the coals.


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## Bulldozer

funktekk said:


> I like rock racing. I like that they add some edge to an otherwise vanilla peleton.


I agree.


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## wchane

for what it's worth, i'm a fan. go RR!


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## foofighter

wchane said:


> for what it's worth, i'm a fan. go RR!


shut it wallace


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## foofighter

fleck said:


> I have my doubts that the general public has any idea who Rock Racing is. They do however, know who lance is and because of it MIGHT know who Astana is. RR's marketing gimic doesn't stretch anywhere but the reach of within the cycling community.
> 
> It's good that the RR guys are class acts. Remember, although they are a domestic team, they are stacked with tons of experienced international pros. Their roster is one of the more impressive ones nationally and internationally.
> 
> With as many "?" in individual's pasts if they were to behave any other way they'd get drug over the coals.


you dont think their tattoo'd riders and "rockstar" lifestyle catches the attention of the spectators especially when they had models and the fancy tour bus following them to races and doing appearances at venues...i think it would break the public perception of the clean cut euro roadie. just my opinion


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## wchane

foofighter said:


> shut it wallace


lol...did you get rid of your ellsworth?


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## iliveonnitro

funktekk said:


> Did anyone see the interview with Michael Ball on the Versus coverage. He said that Rock was going to mellow their approach and let their riding do the talking. He himself has kept a pretty low profile with the team this year.
> 
> Has he learned something from last year?
> 
> 
> All in all Rock had a really successful Tour. They were the only domestic team to step it up and ride with the pro tour guys. I would even say that as a team Rock had a better showing that AG2R, Liquigas, Rabobank, and Quickstep.
> 
> The story of this Tour is Astana, Garmin, Highroad, Saxobank, and Rock. Cervelo didn't really do anything before or after Thors stage win. Ouch was active in a couple of breaks, but nothing race changing. If you look at that list Rock is really well above their class. Those other four teams are the same teams that will make the Pro Tour races worth watching.
> 
> Hopefully some other sponsors were watching and will give Rock some funds to ride a full season, and continue on next season.


I disagree with Liquigas because Nabali was a rockstar this ToC. But I couldn't agree more with AG2R, Rabo, and maybe QuickStep.

Honestly, outside of Astana and Nabali, they were the most interesting to watch.


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## fleck

foofighter said:


> you dont think their tattoo'd riders and "rockstar" lifestyle catches the attention of the spectators especially when they had models and the fancy tour bus following them to races and doing appearances at venues...i think it would break the public perception of the clean cut euro roadie. just my opinion


the public is used to the image of an athlete being a bit of a bad boy rock star. It's only to the cycling industry and it's existing fans that this image runs against the grain.


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## funktekk

iliveonnitro said:


> I disagree with Liquigas because Nabali was a rockstar this ToC. But I couldn't agree more with AG2R, Rabo, and maybe QuickStep.
> 
> Honestly, outside of Astana and Nabali, they were the most interesting to watch.


you are absolutely correct and dead wrong all at once!

Nabali was a stud in this race. Liquigas did nothing to help him. I think they finished the race with only two other riders. 

So you are right that Nabali did excite the race, however you are wrong because I was talking teams and one ride doth not make a team.


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## foofighter

wchane said:


> lol...did you get rid of your ellsworth?


lol that was seriously like 5 bikes ago


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## lalahsghost

foofighter said:


> lol that was seriously like 5 bikes ago


*{Totally off topic}* to foofighter: YO GABBA GABBA

Rock & Republic Jeans are allegedly made to last a really long time, plus if a piece of clothing gives me a license* to feel a little more comfortable/confident.... more to them. 

*Note, I do not have a pair, and do not feel uncomfortable and or unconfident.


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## Snopro440

Rock Racing had a booth at Interbike and Anarchy in the UK was blasting all the time. It was cool I thought. I was looking around at the gear and bumped into a guy, turned to say sorry and it was Tyler Hamilton. He was nice to talk to, and seemed really down to earth. I hadn't been a fan of the team (or him) but it did kind of change my opinion to some degree. I thought it was funny when I saw the anarchy symbol on their jerseys though. Kids I went to school with would put the symbol in their notebooks thinking that they were being wild...... (in 8th grade..) It is kind of cool that they are not a run of the mill team, and that they give fans something different to watch though.


----------



## foofighter

lalahsghost said:


> *{Totally off topic}* to foofighter: YO GABBA GABBA


bingo! yooooo gabba gabba  you must have kids



Snopro440 said:


> Rock Racing had a booth at Interbike and Anarchy in the UK was blasting all the time. It was cool I thought. I was looking around at the gear and bumped into a guy, turned to say sorry and it was Tyler Hamilton. He was nice to talk to, and seemed really down to earth. I hadn't been a fan of the team (or him) but it did kind of change my opinion to some degree. I thought it was funny when I saw the anarchy symbol on their jerseys though. Kids I went to school with would put the symbol in their notebooks thinking that they were being wild...... (in 8th grade..) It is kind of cool that they are not a run of the mill team, and that they give fans something different to watch though.


that's pretty cool, tyler hamilton seems like a guy you can chat with


----------



## MarvinK

fleck said:


> I have my doubts that the general public has any idea who Rock Racing is. They do however, know who lance is and because of it MIGHT know who Astana is. RR's marketing gimic doesn't stretch anywhere but the reach of within the cycling community.


The general US public doesn't know anything about any other team--and if they had to guess who Lance raced for they'd probably say the USA, USPS or Livestrong. They wouldn't know Levi or other successful American cyclists. I think that's why the Rock Racing marketing works:

If a non-cycling California resident decided to go check out the ToC, they're more inclined to remember the hot girls, flashy support vehicles and over-the-top kits of Rock Racing than they would other teams. It's good marketing inside and outside of cycling... whether people like them or not.


----------



## Hooben

They have another promotional spot out...


----------



## 2ndGen




----------



## PeanutButterBreath

If you like the RR aesthetic, you should look into Primal Wear. They've been freeaking the squares with their in-your-face, we-don't-conform-to-convention graphics for years. 

IMO nothing is less cool than trying too hard to be cool. Fashioning a bad boy image for yourself (and spending ton's of money to try to prop it up) falls under that category.


----------



## 2ndGen

PeanutButterBreath said:


> If you like the RR aesthetic, you should look into Primal Wear. They've been freeaking the squares with their in-your-face, we-don't-conform-to-convention graphics for years.
> 
> IMO nothing is less cool than trying too hard to be cool. Fashioning a bad boy image for yourself (and spending ton's of money to try to prop it up) falls under that category.


I like their whole way of doing things... I think they've slapped the noses of some snobs back down to earth.  

Me? I'm not a flashy person at all, but I can certainly appreciate when someone comes on the scene and does dirt.  

They are like the anti-snobs of Roading. 
A bunch of "characters" with colored histories that came together and formed a team.
All individuals in their own rights, but a team of individuals. 

They took what everyone else used as insults and turned it into their "brand". 

Reminds me of a saying (if I already haven't put it on this thread):

"*A successful man is one who can lay a firm foundation with the bricks that others throw at him*."

*Sydney Greenberg*

I'm not up too much on their "success" (if any)...are they winning regularly or at least placing?


----------



## 2ndGen




----------



## funktekk

What happened to the rest of their site? Last year they had all sorts of photos and a message board. 

I really wish they would come out with some non team replica Rock style kits. Something stylish and high quality without the fanboy stigma of a replica kit.


----------



## Dave Hickey

Don't you find it ironic that the "anti-snobs" of cycling sell $200+ replica jerseys?


----------



## 2ndGen

Dave Hickey said:


> Don't you find it ironic that the "anti-snobs" of cycling sell $200+ replica jerseys?



:lol:

Define snob for me?

For me, a snob is someone who believes that roading should be done a "certain" way with "certain" rules and "certain" standards.

If they make $200. jerseys and give some of the proceeds to good causes like diseae fighting and still make $15. t-shirts so that even the average joe can enjoy a piece of The Rock, it's all good in my book.

In learning more and more about them; I'm liking their "2nd Chance" philosophy.

They seem like guys that mingle "with" people. 

Way cool.


----------



## 2ndGen

funktekk said:


> What happened to the rest of their site? Last year they had all sorts of photos and a message board.
> 
> I really wish they would come out with some non team replica Rock style kits. Something stylish and high quality without the fanboy stigma of a replica kit.


They actually have some gear on there (albeit, casual gear, not riding gear) with less flashy labeling.

And I noticed that too...they've pulled back the site a bit.

My question is: 

Are they winning races or at least placing in the top?

(Because all flash and no action is not impressive to me)


----------



## real stonie

Nothing says "cool" like Cadillac.


----------



## 2ndGen

*Rock Racing's Ball stirs up conservative cycling world * 

Italian sprinter Mario Cipollini, known for his flamboyant style and all-time record at the Giro d'Italia, was coaxed out of retirement by Michael Ball, the owner of the Rock Racing team. 

Michael Ball, owner of upstart Team Rock Racing, arrived at Sunday's start of the Tour of California in a black chauffeur-driven Rolls-Royce Phantom with a Day-Glo green skull logo painted on the side. An entourage of a Cadillac Escalade and a team bus decorated with more green skulls accompanied Ball with the thumps of hard rock music.

Last week race organizers barred three Rock Racing riders from competing because of their alleged involvement in a Spanish doping scandal. While Ball's antics on and off the race course have riled the cycling establishment, fans have embraced the team. "Bike races are usually really nerdy," says Mindy Lim, 23, of Cupertino, Calif. "This is more like a rock concert."

Ball, 44, is a former racer who excelled in the rough-and-tumble world of street criteriums and track racing.

Former Mercury team director and pro racer John Wordin remembers Ball as "tough and tenacious."

A Mexican-American kid from Los Angeles, Ball says "cycling saved my life." He took his racing attitude to the competitive fashion world with his company Rock & Republic, known for its designer jeans. 

"I thought fashion was mean and political," says, "But pro cycling is even tougher."

Unlike most teams, which depend on sponsor money to fund their programs, Rock Racing sells team gear at races and online. In the team's second year of competition, Ball expects to bring in $1 million from sales at the Tour of California. Rock Racing, a UCI continental team, isn't expected to contend with the top Pro Tour teams. Rock Racing has five riders in the field, three fewer than the standard team roster. 

Ball supports a strong riders' union and has embraced riders he believes have been treated unfairly by anti-doping agencies, such as Americans Tyler Hamilton and Floyd Landis.

Hamilton, the 2004 Olympic gold medalist in road racing, recently completed a two-year suspension for doping. Hamilton, Santiago Botero and Oscar Sevilla were not allowed to start because the race's new rules say any rider with an "open file" for doping will be barred from competing.

"I'm grateful for the opportunity," says Hamilton, who was out signing autographs at Sunday's prologue. "We really want to win for him."

Ball says, "We have a moment right now to change this sport. If it means giving these guys amnesty, do it. Stop digging up graves. This sport is going to wither on the vine and die if this continues."

Bob Stapleton, owner of Team High Road, says Ball makes good points. "I just think he could go about it in a better manner."

http://www.usatoday.com/sports/cycling/2008-02-18-rock-racing_N.htm


----------



## Dave Hickey

Don't get me wrong, I like Rock Racing too...Nothing wrong with them... I'd call them anti-Establishment


----------



## 2ndGen

real stonie said:


> Nothing says "cool" like Cadillac.











*





Or...Rolls Royce*














*
Or...Lambo*


----------



## 2ndGen

Dave Hickey said:


> Don't get me wrong, I like Rock Racing too...Nothing wrong with them... I'd call them anti-Establishment


Dave, 

Your pic has a little bit of the RR "in" it!

Agreed.

Def Anti-Establishment.

I'd like to see them "winning" to really stick it in the craw of those who think that they are inappropriate for road racing. 

:lol:

Argggh!

Imagine a Rock Racing Pirate's Skull & Bones Flag


----------



## mondayC

Every time I see OP's picture, I think of turtles. Not that RR is slow, but maybe they should have thought a little deeper about their color scheme.


----------



## 2ndGen

I think their going with Black & White now...I wasn't too fond of the neon green either, but let's see what 2009 brings.

Truth be told, if I haven't already said this, it's precisely that picture that made me take another look at road biking.


----------



## 2ndGen

*RR's 2009 rides...*


----------



## jlandry

I wonder if they wave at other riders. : )


----------



## Andrea138

Rahsaan Bahati and a couple of other guys were at Valley of the Sun a couple of weeks ago. They're all really nice... Bahati was sporting a sweet fro-hawk and asked me a take a photo & send it to him


----------



## funktekk

2ndGen said:


> They actually have some gear on there (albeit, casual gear, not riding gear) with less flashy labeling.


Not necessarily less flashly, but less sponsor oriented. I liked Rock & Republic's clothing line long before they got into cycling. I think its super cool that they have gotten into cycling.

I wish they would make some matching kits kind of like Capo Forma has done. Something that has the Rock and Republic style, but yet could be worn by anyone in a sanctioned race. Something that won't get mistaken as a team kit.

If they still had the darn website I would tell someone there, because I think they could sell a lot more of those kits than the team kits they are trying to move now.


----------



## monocognizant

I like that they bring a non-conventional "Bad Boy" image to the sport of road cycling. I think it's ok that they give second chances to not so reputable riders. That just goes along with the image. Besides, I'm sure those riders, not being in high demand, can be picked up at a fraction of the salary of others.


----------



## roadie_490

2ndGen said:


> My question is:
> 
> Are they winning races or at least placing in the top?


Really?
http://www.cyclingnews.com/road.php?id=road/2009/mar09/merco09/merco092

http://www.cyclingnews.com/road/2009/feb09/california09/?id=results/california091


----------



## Andrea138

Yeah- Just to add- Jose Garcia won the crit @ Valley of the Sun. Bahati broke his chain and the official wouldn't let him back into the race b/c he'd missed three laps by the time he got a spare bike.


----------



## 2ndGen

roadie_490 said:


> Really?
> http://www.cyclingnews.com/road.php?id=road/2009/mar09/merco09/merco092
> 
> http://www.cyclingnews.com/road/2009/feb09/california09/?id=results/california091


:thumbsup:


----------



## flyingheel

"Ball, 44, is a former racer who excelled in the rough-and-tumble world of street criteriums and track racing."

Nothing against the guy...just doing it different from everyone else and perhaps trying a little to hard to be "punk rock" about it. But when did he "excel" in cycling. I was under the impression he had been a club racer...nothing more, nothing less. The quote makes it sound like he was winning elite races regularly.


----------



## Mootsie

Tyler Hamilton stood for what had to be the better part of an hour in Solvang at the TOC in front of the Rock trailer signing and posing for photos. I think he's working on his PR. You have to give him credit for trying.


----------



## 2ndGen

........................................................................







........................................................................


----------



## 2ndGen

That graphic is not directed at anybody here, it's just thread appropriate.


----------



## 2ndGen

Mosovich said:


> how are they going to find a co sponsor with that kinda image.. I mean when you put "bad M*^&%#F&$#*@" on your team bike, that doesn't do much for family friendly viewing now does it.. What company would want their name on that.. Okay, maybe some financial company.. :idea:


With over a hundred million a year in sales, I doubt they'll need a co-sponsor for a longggg time. 

I also doubt that any "family friendly" sponsors would want to tie themselves to "Rock & Republic" anyway.


----------



## 32and3cross

2ndGen said:


> With over a hundred million a year in sales, I doubt they'll need a co-sponsor for a longggg time.
> 
> I also doubt that any "family friendly" sponsors would want to tie themselves to "Rock & Republic" anyway.


except that the clothing company is tired of paying the bills for the cycling team and the DO need a sponsor add to that designer denim sales are down and you see why they have been cutting back. Their other sponsors arn't really sponsors Cadi pulled out the cars are just left over. I do hope they make it.


----------



## 2ndGen




----------



## FTM

2ndGen said:


> With over a hundred million a year in sales, I doubt they'll need a co-sponsor for a longggg time.
> 
> I also doubt that any "family friendly" sponsors would want to tie themselves to "Rock & Republic" anyway.


Hmmmm
and...


----------



## ProRoad

LOFL, what he said.

I think they are now talking with thier bikes. The way it should be.


----------



## TheDon

JohnHemlock said:


> Yeah, anarchy as long as 30% of your team pisses in a cup every night.
> 
> Anarchy is Sid Vicious murdering his girlfriend by stabbing her in the abdomen, slashing his wrists in jail, getting released and getting his mom to score him some heroin, then overdosing on said heroin and dying.
> 
> Next to that, Rock Racing is just crass marketing!


Anarchy isn't being a moron and OD'ing on heroin neither is that punk. Sex pistols were lame and because of them we now have crappy pop punk bands like green day and good charlotte.


----------



## cycledog81

iliveonnitro said:


> As far as pro teams, they are very unconventional. They willingly hire and support riders previously found guilty of doping. They are flashy -- ala Mario Cippolini, the Cadillac's, and the badass attitude and image. Nearly everything they do flies in the face of conventional cycling, which has been a traditional-minded sport for over a hundred years. They show up to races with trophy/umbrella-style girls, modded and tinted cadillacs, etc.
> 
> Conventional cycling is very prim and proper. Any sort of negative image a rider portrays and he is fired (David Clinger), any sort of scrutiny and they often fold under pressure (doping). Rock not only takes these images and negatives, but they embrace them.
> 
> It's sort of like showing up to symphony orchestra with a 10" long spiked green mohawk...while in a suit.


We all know how well that "conventional cycling" system has worked over the last 30+ years ! It was filled with cheats and corrupt to the core. You can go and bury the old boys conventional cycling club, it didn't work. It's the root of everything that is wrong with cycling today. The doping was encouraged and expected by team owners and directors.
Anyone that spoke out was blacked balled. Conventional cycling has never been prim and proper only in some blind glorified cycling publication that created some fantasy world for the fans.
You want prim and proper go watch the Kentucky Derby or Golf.
It's time for a change, hope they are around for a long time. 
They had a great showing at TOC and are winning races in 2009. 
You don't have to like Michael Ball, but give the rest of them the credit for fighting for their jobs and riding aggressively so far this year.
They add some needed life to the pro racing scene here in the U.S. and I like many others welcome it.


----------



## 2ndGen

32and3cross said:


> except that the clothing company is tired of paying the bills for the cycling team and the DO need a sponsor add to that designer denim sales are down and you see why they have been cutting back. Their other sponsors arn't really sponsors Cadi pulled out the cars are just left over. I do hope they make it.



I heard Michael Ball personally saying that there was no way that he'd let the team effort end. He said they'll always be supported. Besides that, the team is a healthy tax write off (as a business expense/marketing). 

Just saw an article where despite jeans sales having slowed down, his sales actually rose 14% in the beginning of 2008 and I made a mistake in saying that he had sales of over $100 million. 

Actually, it's over $280 Million. If he only makes a tiny profit on that, I think that it's more than enough for him to solely support the team (again, not to mention all the tax breaks he gets to offset expenses).

How much can it cost to support a team like that? 
I'm sure there are figures somewhere.

A million a year?
2 million? 

I think that Michael Ball has all the money to continue to keep the team going. 
The only thing that would stop Michael Ball is Michael Ball. 
I think he's in it for more than just winning races. 
I think he's in it for the 2nd Chance aspects of it. 

I hope they make it too.

:thumbsup:


----------



## 2ndGen

FTM said:


> Hmmmm
> and...





> "I finally asked to have direct contact with Michael Ball. I sent him a message asking what was going on, and the next day he rang me and said that there is no budget, no team, no bikes…nothing."












*Sounds like Mr. Cooke wasn't wanted back on the team!*










*He reminds me a lot of Morrie...*


----------



## bigpinkt

2ndGen said:


> I heard Michael Ball personally saying that there was no way that he'd let the team effort end. He said they'll always be supported.


I heard him say they were riding the Giro this year....how is that pledge going?




2ndGen said:


> Actually, it's over $280 Million.


Got any audited financial to support that claim? Sounds like more Sanchez Smoke


----------



## 2ndGen

ProRoad said:


> LOFL, what he said.
> 
> I think they are now talking with thier bikes. The way it should be.


----------



## 2ndGen

cycledog81 said:


> We all know how well that "conventional cycling" system has worked over the last 30+ years ! It was filled with cheats and corrupt to the core. You can go and bury the old boys conventional cycling club, it didn't work. It's the root of everything that is wrong with cycling today. The doping was encouraged and expected by team owners and directors.
> Anyone that spoke out was blacked balled. Conventional cycling has never been prim and proper only in some blind glorified cycling publication that created some fantasy world for the fans.
> You want prim and proper go watch the Kentucky Derby or Golf.
> It's time for a change, hope they are around for a long time.
> They had a great showing at TOC and are winning races in 2009.
> You don't have to like Michael Ball, but give the rest of them the credit for fighting for their jobs and riding aggressively so far this year.
> They add some needed life to the pro racing scene here in the U.S. and I like many others welcome it.


I think that sentiment goes for any other major sport and pretty much any walk of life as well (religion, politics, etc...).

I'm sure those most angry about the faults of pro cyclers are non-pro cyclers who love the sport.

I'd say this...if "some" are going to be punished for faults, then let all the cyclers be punished for their faults, but since we can't catch them all, what should be done is that once someone is clean, they should be given 2nd (not 3rd or 4th) chances. 

Personally, I have no idea of all the drama of R&R's team make up...but from what little I've read, it's just like what happened in Baseball in the late 90's and how it's affects are still being dealt with today.

If their testing clean and their still winning, let them race!

Personally, I don't think this has anything to do with the integrity of the sport as much as it does with cycling elitism. 

If this team just is competative, then that's enough.

If they place? 

Shoot!

That's justification!

If they win? 

Then, that's redemption!

But in my book, if they stay clean, then, they've already won the important race and can be excellent role models to people who struggle with "like" issues.


----------



## 2ndGen

bigpinkt said:


> I heard him say they were riding the Giro this year....how is that pledge going?


The race? 





> Got any audited financial to support that claim? Sounds like more Sanchez Smoke


My bad!  It wasn't 280 million/it was 280 per jean. 










So I publically correct my previous correction. 

I think that BusinessWeek calls them a $300 Million Dollar "brand" (net worth? gross worth?).

Since then, Ball has turned his idea into Culver City (Calif.)-based Rock & Republic, a $300 million brand of men's and women's jeans that now includes cosmetics, accessories, shoes, and other clothing lines that are sold in 86 countries. His long-term goal is to create a far-reaching lifestyle brand that includes boutique hotels and restaurants and a domestic airline. Ball says he is far from done. 

https://www.businessweek.com/smallb...mallbiz index page_top small business stories

B. What's "Sanchez Smoke" mean?


----------



## bigpinkt

2ndGen said:


> The race?


Yes, there is this little race in Italy every May called the Giro. 

Amongst his many claims was that Rock Racing was riding the Giro this year....then they figured out they had taken out the wrong license......and Chipo told everyone in Italy they were a joke.



2ndGen said:


> A. BusinessWeek article: http://www.businessweek.com/smallbiz/content/nov2008/sb20081118_392896.htm


This is not audited financials, it is a quote from Ball.....whose relationship with the truth has always been tenuous at best


2ndGen said:


> B. What's "Sanchez Smoke" mean?


Sanchez is Ball's real name.


----------



## 2ndGen

bigpinkt said:


> Yes, there is this little race in Italy every May called the Giro.
> 
> Amongst his many claims was that Rock Racing was riding the Giro this year....then they figured out they had taken out the wrong license......and Chipo told everyone in Italy they were a joke.


I'll Google that and get back to ya! :thumbsup: 






> This is not audited financials, it is a quote from Ball.....whose relationship with the truth has always been tenuous at best


Actually, I see this as a "quote" from BusinessWeek (Not Mr. Ball)... 

"Since then, Ball has turned his idea into Culver City (Calif.)-based Rock & Republic, a $300 million brand of men's and women's jeans that now includes cosmetics, accessories, shoes, and other clothing lines that are sold in 86 countries."

By Stacy Perman 







> Sanchez is Ball's real name.


Oh... He "used" to be a Sanchez, but now he's a baller. :lol: Makes sense! 

Oh, I'm sorry...just in case you don't know what a "baller" is...

http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=baller

3. 
*baller *
1. A person who plays, and is very successful in basketball. 
2. *A person who finds success and wealth. 
The source of income is usually unknown by others, 
but can tell wealth by the "baller's" attire and usually cocky attitude. 

4. baller 
Livin large, with girls and money 

6. 
someone who's got money and *****es. 

*


----------



## 2ndGen

Annnnd I'm back!

I don't think they'll be riding it according to http://www.steephill.tv/giro-d-italia/ : 

RCS has released the names of the twenty teams invited to the upcoming 
Centennial Giro d'Italia with two more teams likely to be selected later. 

*2009 Giro d'Italia Teams (20 of a max 22)*
Acqua&Sapone - Caffe' Mokambo (Ita)
Ag2r La Mondiale (Fra)
Astana (Kaz)
Bbox Bouygues Telecom (Fra)
Caisse d'Epargne (Spa)
Cervelo Test Team (Svi)*
Garmin - Slipstream (USA) 
ISD (Ita)
Lampre-NGC (Ita)*
Liquigas (Ita)
LPR Brakes - Farnese Vini (Irl)
Quick Step (Bel) 
Rabobank (Ola) 
Silence/Lotto (Bel)
Serramenti Pvc Diquigiovanni/Androni Giocattoli (Ven)*
Team Columbia/High Road (USA)
Team Katusha (Rus) 
Team Milram (Ger)
Team Saxo Bank (Dan) 
Xacobeo Galicia (Spa)*
(* Wild cards, two more teams may be added)
Is that the race you were talking about?


----------



## Doctor Who

flyingheel said:


> "Ball, 44, is a former racer who excelled in the rough-and-tumble world of street criteriums and track racing."
> 
> Nothing against the guy...just doing it different from everyone else and perhaps trying a little to hard to be "punk rock" about it. But when did he "excel" in cycling. I was under the impression he had been a club racer...nothing more, nothing less. The quote makes it sound like he was winning elite races regularly.


Don't see anything there with the word "elite" in it other than your post. One doesn't have to be a Cat. 1 to excel in a race. Often enough, keeping the tires on the ground is an achievement enough.


----------



## robdamanii

2ndGen said:


> Annnnd I'm back!
> 
> I don't think they'll be riding it according to http://www.steephill.tv/giro-d-italia/ :
> 
> RCS has released the names of the twenty teams invited to the upcoming
> Centennial Giro d'Italia with two more teams likely to be selected later.
> 
> *2009 Giro d'Italia Teams (20 of a max 22)*
> Acqua&Sapone - Caffe' Mokambo (Ita)
> Ag2r La Mondiale (Fra)
> Astana (Kaz)
> Bbox Bouygues Telecom (Fra)
> Caisse d'Epargne (Spa)
> Cervelo Test Team (Svi)*
> Garmin - Slipstream (USA)
> ISD (Ita)
> Lampre-NGC (Ita)*
> Liquigas (Ita)
> LPR Brakes - Farnese Vini (Irl)
> Quick Step (Bel)
> Rabobank (Ola)
> Silence/Lotto (Bel)
> Serramenti Pvc Diquigiovanni/Androni Giocattoli (Ven)*
> Team Columbia/High Road (USA)
> Team Katusha (Rus)
> Team Milram (Ger)
> Team Saxo Bank (Dan)
> Xacobeo Galicia (Spa)*
> (* Wild cards, two more teams may be added)
> Is that the race you were talking about?


That's exactly the point he was making. More smoke and mirrors from Mr. "My team pwns the planet." 

Good for the team, fighting for their jobs. Piss on Ball for treating them like crap and likely causing most of the problems they have by opening his idiot mouth.


----------



## identifiler

*The Collection for Prostitutes We've All Been Waiting For*

http://nymag.com/daily/fashion/2007/02/the_collection_for_prostitutes_weve_all_been_waiting_for.html


hahaha!


----------



## Gnarly 928

I find RR's whole "Bling" concept to be laughable. Having Cadillac team cars is 'cool'?...uh...And all the rest of their contrived 'in your face' public image...Kinda pathetic..but if it makes THEM happy..it doesn't hurt much, I guess...Except for that stinkin' "Rock-Cam" coverage they tried during the US National championship TV broadcast...That was painful to watch..

Hey, maybe they could all ride harleys in lime green with tatooed orange haired hooker umbrella girls on the back when they come to a race...That would be impressive!

Don Hanson


----------



## spinwax

Ian Moir was at the Callville Bay Classic this last weekend on a Cannondale... Weird.


----------



## 2ndGen

*...anyone?* :lol:


----------



## roadie_490

Maybe its time to stop:


----------



## T-Doc

121 posts (now122) on the Rock Racing Team..seems like Ball has accomplished his goal of bringing some controversy to the sport to promote his company...


----------



## bigpinkt

T-Doc said:


> 121 posts (now122) on the Rock Racing Team..seems like Ball has accomplished his goal of bringing some controversy to the sport to promote his company...


Could be bring more if Jan races with them

http://www.elcaribecdn.com.do/index...nte-de-rock-racing&catid=202:tenis&Itemid=231


----------



## MaddSkillz

Gnarly 928 said:


> I find RR's whole "Bling" concept to be laughable. Having Cadillac team cars is 'cool'?...uh...And all the rest of their contrived 'in your face' public image...Kinda pathetic..but if it makes THEM happy..it doesn't hurt much, I guess...Except for that stinkin' "Rock-Cam" coverage they tried during the US National championship TV broadcast...That was painful to watch..
> 
> Hey, maybe they could all ride harleys in lime green with tatooed orange haired hooker umbrella girls on the back when they come to a race...That would be impressive!
> 
> Don Hanson


This is the reason I like RR... They piss people off for the stupidest reasons. :thumbsup:


----------



## 2ndGen

MaddSkillz said:


> This is the reason I like RR... They piss people off for the stupidest reasons. :thumbsup:


:thumbsup:


----------



## Coolhand

MaddSkillz said:


> This is the reason I like RR... They piss people off for the stupidest reasons. :thumbsup:


I liked how they imposed 6 month only contracts on their riders, and made half of them club riders. Awesome! :23:


----------



## Coolhand

Coolhand said:


> I liked how they imposed 6 month only contracts on their riders, and made half of them club riders. Awesome! :23:





> "I was told [by team managers], 'Your money is guaranteed, don't worry about the contract, the project is fine, everything is good.' This went on for five weeks. I didn't have my contract and didn't know what to do. I finally asked to have direct contact with Michael Ball. I sent him a message asking what was going on, and the next day he rang me and said that there is no budget, no team, no bikes…nothing.
> 
> "He said that 'the team is done, but I am going to personally put in enough money for the team to go forward for six months. In this time we hope to find a sponsor. So, what I guarantee you is six months of your contract, six months racing, and if we get a sponsor, I will pay you all of it [the two year deal]. If we don't, you have nothing.'"


Rebels!! 

http://www.cyclingnews.com/news.php?id=news/2009/jan09/jan04news


----------



## jlandry

bigpinkt said:


> Could be bring more if Jan races with them
> 
> http://www.elcaribecdn.com.do/index...nte-de-rock-racing&catid=202:tenis&Itemid=231


Speak a da english?


----------



## bigpinkt

jlandry said:


> Speak a da english?


I speak Spanish..... but, there is this site called Google, you may have heard of them, that will translate almost any site for you with their translate tool. You can even add the function to your google tool bar

www.google.com


----------



## jlandry

bigpinkt said:


> I speak Spanish..... but, there is this site called Google, you may have heard of them, that will translate almost any site for you with their translate tool. You can even add the function to your google tool bar
> 
> www.google.com


Sorry. Didn't mean to offend.
But you did write your message in english...


----------



## bigpinkt

here is some news in English from cyclingnews.com. They make it a little more clear that Ulrich would not ride, just advise. I read the Spanish one too fast, it basicly says he would be a PR person from them.....it also says that Rudy will be running a catering tent at Flanders next weekend (?!?!) and Ulrich will be there as well

Pevenage seeks sponsor for Rock Racing, Ullrich to be advisor
Rudy Pevenage, sports director for the American Continental Rock Racing Team, seems to be moving more and more into the team's management. On Thursday he said that Jan Ullrich may be joining the team as a PR advisor, but noted that the team desperately needs a new sponsor.

Sponsor and team owner Michael Ball's clothing business Rock & Republic is being hit by the world financial crisis, and the team needs a new source of funding, Pevenage told the dpa press agency. "I assume that our team is {financially} assured for this season, but we desperately need a new sponsor. We are holding talks."

He indicated that Ullrich my join the management team in the coming season. "That could be something – maybe next year. Right now we couldn't pay him."

Pevenage and Ullrich have worked together for many years in the past, and continue their close relationship. "We telephone often. He is doing well. Jan will never come back as a rider, he has been hurt too badly for that." Ullrich will be Pevenage's guest next weekend for the Ronde van Vlaanderen.

It is "a lot of fun" to be back in cycling, the 54-year-old said. "We are a good troupe with morale. The riders don't complain, which is nice. If we would be able to at the Tour de France, we would be competitive with the best teams."


----------



## bigpinkt

jlandry said:


> Sorry. Didn't mean to offend.
> But you did write your message in english...


No offense taken.

That Google translate tool is awesome. There are so many European websites and newspapers that cover the sport in depth it is a great way to get a wider range of information about the sport.


----------



## 2ndGen

Coolhand said:


> Rebels!!
> 
> http://www.cyclingnews.com/news.php?id=news/2009/jan09/jan04news



Too late! :lol:

http://forums.roadbikereview.com/showpost.php?p=2037661&postcount=103


----------



## 2ndGen

jlandry said:


> Speak a da english?


Who? 
RockRacing? 
Why should they?
The owner's Spanish. 
A good amount of the team (if not most) of them are Spanish. 
This is America. 
Point?


----------



## 2ndGen

bigpinkt said:


> I speak Spanish..... but, there is this site called Google, you may have heard of them, that will translate almost any site for you with their translate tool. You can even add the function to your google tool bar
> 
> www.google.com


I'm still waiting to see what's the point of that particular article be specifically chosen.


----------



## jlandry

2ndGen said:


> Who?
> RockRacing?
> Why should they?
> The owner's Spanish.
> A good amount of the team (if not most) of them are Spanish.
> This is America.
> Point?


Wow. Relax. If you read my last post i apologized for my half-witted joke. If you click on his link, you get an article in Spanish, I don't speak Spanish, but I wanted some news on Jan U. I'm just a frost-bitten French-Canadian boy.:thumbsup: 
Now, the language we use on this forum is English right? If you post a link to something in a different language, make a point of saying so. 
Now I know how to use teh Google.:blush2:


----------



## farm

OK, I give up. I'm trying to think of a reason why a corporation would step in to sponsor them. In this economy. I suspect these guys, like so many others, will be out of a job soon.


----------



## 2ndGen

jlandry said:


> Wow. Relax. If you read my last post i apologized for my half-witted joke. If you click on his link, you get an article in Spanish, I don't speak Spanish, but I wanted some news on Jan U. I'm just a frost-bitten French-Canadian boy.:thumbsup:
> Now, the language we use on this forum is English right? If you post a link to something in a different language, make a point of saying so.
> Now I know how to use teh Google.:blush2:


Cool beans. 



I had no idea that someone had posted that link in Spanish. 

:lol:

No worries.


----------



## bigpinkt

Creed was let go yesterday











That is a bummer, he was one of the good guys on the team. 

In reality there are a bunch of good people at Rock, it sucks to see the mess Ball has got them in.


----------



## flyingheel

LOL...they want their helmet back?!??!!?


----------



## cheddarlove

Do you think RR is on it's way out?


----------



## Mootsie

They dump him on the B team, let him ride one race and then fire him. F Mikey Ball.


----------



## g-Bike

Ya this whole thing has just turned into a mess. Ball should have stayed with a continental team and not wasted money on trying to court Chipo and other high priced cyclists. Ball wanted to play with the big boys ie Stapleton but selling Jeans is not like selling global mobile phone services. No where near.......


----------



## cycledog81

How can they ask for a bike back when they didn't even give him one this year !
He raced Redlands on a Cervelo that he bought.
And a f****** helmet ! 
What a total mess.


----------



## Coolhand

Please send us your used Helmet- why? What possible use could it be?

Morons. . .


----------



## den bakker

Coolhand said:


> Please send us your used Helmet- why? What possible use could it be?
> 
> Morons. . .


"Here's your helmet. Barely used and only thrown in frustration once. Welcome to the team, we really value your efforts for us. "


----------



## Mootsie

bigpinkt said:


> Creed was let go yesterday
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> That is a bummer, he was one of the good guys on the team.
> 
> In reality there are a bunch of good people at Rock, it sucks to see the mess Ball has got them in.


Creed is dumping all of his R&R stuff on Ebay.

https://search.ebay.com/_W0QQsassZlatiendadebicicleta81QQhtZ-1


----------



## Mootsie

Check out the background of one of the pictures in Creed's listing. Think he's got a lot to sell?


----------



## jlandry

Pretty soon we can also buy Tyler's crap too.


----------



## 2ndGen

:lol:







:lol:


----------



## millennium

bigpinkt said:


>


This firing is very unique in the cycling world--to be fired for lack of fitness and/or results??? I can't think of another situation like this--can anyone else? It sets a disturbing precedent for pro cyclists. It seems to me that the UCI and/or USA Cycling should be interested in avoiding/fighting this type of firing, as it would seem very difficult for pros to get a job (at least a decent one) mid-season, when the teams' budgets are already committed for the year.


----------



## fabsroman

millennium said:


> This firing is very unique in the cycling world--to be fired for lack of fitness and/or results??? I can't think of another situation like this--can anyone else? It sets a disturbing precedent for pro cyclists. It seems to me that the UCI and/or USA Cycling should be interested in avoiding/fighting this type of firing, as it would seem very difficult for pros to get a job (at least a decent one) mid-season, when the teams' budgets are already committed for the year.


Are you talking about in sports, or in the rest of the world? Back in the real world people get fired for not performing almost every day. They aren't assured of another job, or even another job in their field. What is the big difference here? If this guy is good, some team will make room for him and/or find the additional money.

Trades and cuts happen all the time in sports. The Giants released Burress and were thinking about releasing him in the middle of the season. This stuff isn't unheard of in the sports world either.

Ultimately, I don't like Rock Racing, and could care less about the firing or the rider that was fired. I just replied because I read the e-mail notification that I received for your post and thought it deserved a comment.


----------



## stevesbike

in the real world a company has to have documented evidence of non-performance, documented evidence of notification of poor performance, warnings, etc prior to dismissal. Otherwise it's open season for wrongful dismissal lawsuits. Don't know why Rock just didn't have limited term contracts. I don't know how you would structure a contract in cycling with performance standards built in - I doubt Creed and the others got warnings etc before being let go. Domestic cycling is in a really bad state - Creed, Baldwin and others are good guys and tough to see them kicked to the curb in this manner.


----------



## mulkdog45

So what is* your* first impression when you see someone decked out in Rock kits... say at a century or on a weekend ride? Mine; the guy was in the lime green and white full kit, pretty striking design and while I do like the design in it self, it is not for me personally. The design seems to carry an attitude with it, does it come from Bell, the riders, both past and present or a combination? Does anyone else feel this way?


----------



## fabsroman

mulkdog45 said:


> So what is* your* first impression when you see someone decked out in Rock kits... say at a century or on a weekend ride? Mine; the guy was in the lime green and white full kit, pretty striking design and while I do like the design in it self, it is not for me personally. The design seems to carry an attitude with it, does it come from Bell, the riders, both past and present or a combination? Does anyone else feel this way?


I have not had the "pleasure" of seeing somebody decked out in a Rock Racing kit. However, my feeling would be that they are of the "f" you attitude. In my opinion, Rock Racing seems to thumb its noses at people. Not only are the jeans and garments ridiculously expensive, the riders themselves seem to have that bad boy, I am richer than you attitude. Yep, I'm not a fan.

While riding the other day, I was wondering if these $250 jeans are at least made in the USA. Probably not, but I was just wondering.


----------



## fabsroman

stevesbike said:


> in the real world a company has to have documented evidence of non-performance, documented evidence of notification of poor performance, warnings, etc prior to dismissal. Otherwise it's open season for wrongful dismissal lawsuits. Don't know why Rock just didn't have limited term contracts. I don't know how you would structure a contract in cycling with performance standards built in - I doubt Creed and the others got warnings etc before being let go. Domestic cycling is in a really bad state - Creed, Baldwin and others are good guys and tough to see them kicked to the curb in this manner.


In the real world, there are a lot of things that play into what a company desires to have before firing somebody. However, they don't NEED to have all the things you listed. Those items are just safeguards to help prevent a discrimination case against them. In Maryland, there really isn't a wrongful termination action because unless there is a contract, all employment is deemed employment at will. Now, if there is a contract in place, that is an entirely different thing.

What a lot of people don't understand is that they can be fired any day of the year just because their boss doesn't like the car they drive and there is no cause of action for it unless the reason for the firing was one of the protected reasons (e.g., religion, race, gender, sexual orientation, family medical leave act). Now, if there is an employment contract in place and the person is fired prior to the termination date of the contract, and fired without cause, which is usually outlined in the contract, then the employer is in for some trouble.


----------



## iliveonnitro

fabsroman said:


> I have not had the "pleasure" of seeing somebody decked out in a Rock Racing kit. However, my feeling would be that they are of the "f" you attitude. In my opinion, Rock Racing seems to thumb its noses at people. Not only are the jeans and garments ridiculously expensive, the riders themselves seem to have that bad boy, I am richer than you attitude. Yep, I'm not a fan.
> 
> While riding the other day, I was wondering if these $250 jeans are at least made in the USA. Probably not, but I was just wondering.


Fellow riders say that they are some of the nicest guys in the peloton. It's all an image setup by Ball.


----------



## fabsroman

iliveonnitro said:


> Fellow riders say that they are some of the nicest guys in the peloton. It's all an image setup by Ball.


You know what they say about first impressions, they are lasting.


----------



## Battlestar Galactica

*sample sale may 1-3*

for those of you who live in the area
http://view.onestopinternet.com/vie...eec13747d6d03&ls=fdf516737d62007973157273&r=0


----------



## mtbbmet

I own some RR jeans, they are in fact made in LA, just like the cycling kit which I also just purchased last night. In white. I do not have a "bad boy richer than you attitude", but I do appreciate good quality. And the kit as well as the jeans are just that.
But I make sacrifices in other areas of life to be able to afford nice clothes/bikes. I own a grand caravan.
But they are done. I think the whole plug is about to be pulled on the Rock Racing clothing line any day. They are months late with the spring booking, are not responding to emails from shops wondering WTH there booking is. Half the stuff on the website is 50% off, and they are having a "Demo sale" in LA next weekend. I think the demo sale will be more of an "Empty the warehouse and lock the doors sale" in reality.


----------



## cheddarlove

I live in L.A. Do you know where the sale is going to be?



mtbbmet said:


> I own some RR jeans, they are in fact made in LA, just like the cycling kit which I also just purchased last night. In white. I do not have a "bad boy richer than you attitude", but I do appreciate good quality. And the kit as well as the jeans are just that.
> But I make sacrifices in other areas of life to be able to afford nice clothes/bikes. I own a grand caravan.
> But they are done. I think the whole plug is about to be pulled on the Rock Racing clothing line any day. They are months late with the spring booking, are not responding to emails from shops wondering WTH there booking is. Half the stuff on the website is 50% off, and they are having a "Demo sale" in LA next weekend. I think the demo sale will be more of an "Empty the warehouse and lock the doors sale" in reality.


----------



## mtbbmet

Sony Studios, Stage 9
10202 W, Washington BLVD
Culver City (That's pretty much LA right)
Entrance is on Overland


----------



## JohnHenry

weird note. I was in Phoenix a couple of weeks ago in an "Off Saks" store. That place was packed to the gills with Rock & Republic wear (non-cycling, unfortunately).


----------



## Mootsie

iliveonnitro said:


> Fellow riders say that they are some of the nicest guys in the peloton. It's all an image setup by Ball.


Agree completely. I was around the R&R trailer at the TOC and there was no attitude there. Riders talked/had photos taken with fans. The biggest attitude was at the Quickstep bus.


----------



## heathb

RR is exactly what's wrong with cycling these days......way way way too much bling.

If they wanted to be punk they'd race on a shoestring budget and come out riding cheap bikes, gear, clothing, broken down tour buses that anyone could afford. 

The endless marketing and outrages prices for what amounts to faddish s*** is snuffing the life out of this sport and keeping people away. 

It's crap. Someone that really spends their time training isn't going to be able to afford to drive around in a cadillac and $280 jeans, $250 jerseys and all the other items these guys are pushing. 

The purity of the sport is going straight down the tubes and becoming out of reach of most people because their spending themselves into massive debt to ride and race. How many times have I heard about all the problems cycling is causing simply because the guys I ride with spend so much damn money on this stuff, including myself.

To me the heart and soul of racing more or less died 10 years ago and it just keeps getting worse every year with the ever increasing prices and marketing for everything. RR isn't helping matters one bit with regards to this problem.


----------



## cycledog81

heathb said:


> RR is exactly what's wrong with cycling these days......way way way too much bling.
> 
> If they wanted to be punk they'd race on a shoestring budget and come out riding cheap bikes, gear, clothing, broken down tour buses that anyone could afford.
> 
> The endless marketing and outrages prices for what amounts to faddish s*** is snuffing the life out of this sport and keeping people away.
> 
> It's crap. Someone that really spends their time training isn't going to be able to afford to drive around in a cadillac and $280 jeans, $250 jerseys and all the other items these guys are pushing.
> 
> The purity of the sport is going straight down the tubes and becoming out of reach of most people because their spending themselves into massive debt to ride and race. How many times have I heard about all the problems cycling is causing simply because the guys I ride with spend so much damn money on this stuff, including myself.
> 
> To me the heart and soul of racing more or less died 10 years ago and it just keeps getting worse every year with the ever increasing prices and marketing for everything. RR isn't helping matters one bit with regards to this problem.


Purity of the sport ?
Cycling lost it's virginity along time ago. Nobody is making you spend that cash, don't blame it on cycling, take some responsibility for trying to keep up with your buddies.
Don't blame it on R&R they aren't the ones holding a gun to your head.


----------



## Mootsie

heathb said:


> RR is exactly what's wrong with cycling these days......way way way too much bling.
> 
> If they wanted to be punk they'd race on a shoestring budget and come out riding cheap bikes, gear, clothing, broken down tour buses that anyone could afford.
> 
> The endless marketing and outrages prices for what amounts to faddish s*** is snuffing the life out of this sport and keeping people away.
> 
> It's crap. Someone that really spends their time training isn't going to be able to afford to drive around in a cadillac and $280 jeans, $250 jerseys and all the other items these guys are pushing.
> 
> The purity of the sport is going straight down the tubes and becoming out of reach of most people because their spending themselves into massive debt to ride and race. How many times have I heard about all the problems cycling is causing simply because the guys I ride with spend so much damn money on this stuff, including myself.
> 
> To me the heart and soul of racing more or less died 10 years ago and it just keeps getting worse every year with the ever increasing prices and marketing for everything. RR isn't helping matters one bit with regards to this problem.


Cycling has a pretty affluent base. Its not a "poor" sport. Here are some stats about cyclists from NASGR (National Assn of Sporting Goods Retailers). 


Median Age 34 
Median Household Income $75,000+ 
College Graduates 81% 
Post Graduate 27% 
Male / Female 89% / 11% 
Professional/Managerial 57% 
Married 35% 

RR is marketing to folks with money because that is most of the cycling market.


----------



## heathb

Mootsie said:


> Cycling has a pretty affluent base. Its not a "poor" sport. Here are some stats about cyclists from NASGR (National Assn of Sporting Goods Retailers).
> 
> 
> Median Age 34
> Median Household Income $75,000+
> College Graduates 81%
> Post Graduate 27%
> Male / Female 89% / 11%
> Professional/Managerial 57%
> Married 35%
> 
> RR is marketing to folks with money because that is most of the cycling market.


Yes I've known that cycling is a very expensive sport at least in this country.

Interesting stats though. I'm 35, college grad, make around $50K, single, no kids. I can afford the sport, but I'm getting tired of listening to my married friends wives constantly bringing up the expense of this sport. I've told them I understand their concerns and I share many of them especially when they have kids. However I have no answer for them when a pair of my shoes cost $350 and their kids are having to go without because their dad wants the same. I find I'm the one that gets the blame for all their problems because I'm the single guy that has no responsibilities to speak of.

It would be nice if those with lower incomes felt like they could get into the sport without having to go into debt. That would bring more color into this sport than what RR does with all the marketing and hype.


----------



## Mootsie

heathb said:


> Yes I've known that cycling is a very expensive sport at least in this country.
> 
> Interesting stats though. I'm 35, college grad, make around $50K, single, no kids. I can afford the sport, but I'm getting tired of listening to my married friends wives constantly bringing up the expense of this sport. I've told them I understand their concerns and I share many of them especially when they have kids. However I have no answer for them when a pair of my shoes cost $350 and their kids are having to go without because their dad wants the same. I find I'm the one that gets the blame for all their problems because I'm the single guy that has no responsibilities to speak of.
> 
> It would be nice if those with lower incomes felt like they could get into the sport without having to go into debt. That would bring more color into this sport than what RR does with all the marketing and hype.


Sounds like the age old problem of keeping up the Jones (Jones in this case is you) and the need for the Daddy to live within his means, but that brings up the whole question of credit abuse and that's another topic for the Lounge.  

Now as far as opening up the sport to the less fortunate, I completely agree. Anyone know of programs we can support or better yet, anyone interested in starting one that can expose the young to the beauty we all experience through our cycling?


----------



## mtbbmet

Well, that's a new one. Blaming Rock Racing for your buddies choice to buy shoes he doesn't need and can't afford.
Perfectly good shoes can be had for $100, sometimes less. Have a look on PBK, they have/had blow-out prices on 2 year old Diadoras. $300 shoes for under a $100.
Rock is focusing their marketing at a specific group, the group with money. No one is forcing anyone to buy anything.
And really the money I spend on cycling is nothing in the grand scheme of things.
Sure I have $300 cycling shoes. But I only have one pair, and they last 2-3 years. My wife has about 8 pairs of $200 boots/shoes, and about 10 pairs of $100 shoes. Most are tossed after 12-18 months.


----------



## heathb

It's not just RR that needs to take the blame on this. Like Mootsie mentioned opening the sport to the less fortunate or at least the average man/women on the street. How about junior programs, these kids don't have money for this sport. 

Part of me wishes that everyone at the races had to use the same bike(different sizes), wheels, gear...ect. This would level the playing field. It would eliminate a lot of the discomfort that I've seen from those that ride equipment with less bling. 

I always try to help out those that can't afford because I live in a rural area, but I race in an area that is very affluent. My rural brothers don't feel comfortable mixing and mingling with these people for the very obvious reasons and yet they have the necessary engines to compete with those that have money.


----------



## stevesbike

truth is, you can easily race at an affordable price since equipment doesn't make that much difference (except at the highest levels of competition). If someone is too insecure to race on a budget rig then their problem is bigger than a financial one...


----------



## heathb

I agree that you can find cheaper gear and race on it. At the same time it's hard to compete with basketball, soccer, football where you only need a pair of shoes and maybe some pads that will last for years. 

I'm not seeing too many people racing on cheaper gear these days. Most of my races have between 200 to 400 people show up. Lots of bling as far as the eye can see. It increases the discomfort level for the beginners new to the sport.

If we look back to the 50's,60's and 70's most of these riders rode on a shoe string budget, they were from working class backgrounds. I'm not seeing these people at my races.


----------



## fabsroman

Mootsie said:


> Sounds like the age old problem of keeping up the Jones (Jones in this case is you) and the need for the Daddy to live within his means, but that brings up the whole question of credit abuse and that's another topic for the Lounge.
> 
> Now as far as opening up the sport to the less fortunate, I completely agree. Anyone know of programs we can support or better yet, anyone interested in starting one that can expose the young to the beauty we all experience through our cycling?


You hit the nail on the head. One way to reduce the cost is to increase the minimum weight of the bikes. Of course, this penalizes smaller people like me. Maybe some sort of ratio or something based upon the rider's weight.

Essentially, everybody has to learn to live within their means. My friends use me as justification for their spending on bike stuff, and I am married with a kid, soon to be two kids. I have a married guy with no kids as a teammate that thanked me for telling his wife about all the bikes and Zipp wheels I own because it makes his spending look better since he only has 2 bikes. The big difference is he has a good amount of credit card debt and I don't have any.

This sport can be as expensive or inexpensive as you want it to be, within reason of course.


----------



## 2ndGen

Wow...such passion. 

Personally, I never saw Roading as "blingy". 
R&R? It's obvious that they aren't the heart of the sport. 
I love them to death. 
It was the poster I posted here that made me see Roading in a different light. 
And that's why I got into it as more than just training for MTBing. 

I think that there should be room for teams like R&R and others. 
What's the worse that could have happened? They could've been successful?
Besides, R&R to me didn't have anything to do with Rock Racing culturally. 
To me, the team was a collection of misfits that found a chance at racing again. 

Not bad.

I don't see what Escalades or models or any of that had to do with the sport.
In the end, it was either their winning or losing that should've been focused on.
The rest is just so much noise. 

Don't get me wrong...I as a novice loved that noise! :lol:
But as far as I'm concerned, it was nothing to make such a big deal over. 
I guarantee you that Rock Racing has certainly left an impression on racing in general.


----------



## mtbbmet

2ndGen said:


> I guarantee you that Rock Racing has certainly left an impression on racing in general.


Yup! Here to Stay, or gone tomorrow, we will still be talking about Rock Racing in 10 or even 20 years. They have most certainly left an impression on everybody, good or bad.
I thought it was a good show, and hope it continues.


----------



## crispy010

It boggles me that some of you are blaming a cycling team that is less than 5 years old with the supposed high entry cost of the sport. Seriously, have you lost your minds?


----------



## 2ndGen

mtbbmet said:


> Yup! Here to Stay, or gone tomorrow, we will still be talking about Rock Racing in 10 or even 20 years. They have most certainly left an impression on everybody, good or bad.
> I thought it was a good show, and hope it continues.


I wonder how many non-cycling sponsored cycling teams actually last in the sport? 

Anyway, they lost some, they won some, but they certainly did one thing...

...they lit a fire under the feet of all the snobs! I love that shite!

"F" Snobs! 

:lol: 

Long live Rock Racing!


----------



## 2ndGen

crispy010 said:


> It boggles me that some of you are blaming a cycling team that is less than 5 years old with the supposed high entry cost of the sport. Seriously, have you lost your minds?


:lol: 

R U serious? Someone here actually said that? 
I'm going to have to actually read my own thread! 

:lol:

Know what's funny! 

How R&R was called blingy or gaudy...Hello?
Lycra in neon colors with patent leather shoes?
Road cycling gear wasn't gaudy before them?

:lol: 

If anything, R&R gear is the most masculine gear I've seen.


----------



## JohnHenry

2ndGen said:


> If anything, R&R gear is the most masculine gear I've seen.
> 
> [/IMG]


gimme!


----------



## 2ndGen

Holy wow.

Ok, read the thread a bit.

The most expensive ingredient in a racing set up is the rider him/herself.

Put a good rider on a decent bike (translation: non-uber bike) and he'll win regardless of whether his gear costs 1/2 as much as the most expensive or twice as much as the least expensive. 

Money doesn't make wheels go round...a set of well conditioned rock solid thighs do. 
Anything else is just excuses, excuses, excuses. 



Disclaimer: 
I don't know shite about racing road bikes.
I just happened to be afflicted with something referred to as common sense! 
Peace all!


----------



## RoadCyclingNZ

Two for two for Rock Racing in Spain's Vuelta Asturias, they seem far from dead. http://www.roadcycling.co.nz/RaceTalk/two-from-two-for-rock-racing.html


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## 32and3cross

2ndGen said:


> ...they lit a fire under the feet of all the snobs! I love that shite!



I assume by snobs you mean anyone who was not a supporter.

Not really sure they did anything other than hire a bunch of very tainted riders usually at the expense of the non tainted guys they had, and run their team in such and ass-backward way that they failed. The potential was huge the execution was pretty poor, esp as I think they did very little to grow the brand of the sponsor they had, which in reality was job number 1.


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## 32and3cross

mtbbmet said:


> Yup! Here to Stay, or gone tomorrow, we will still be talking about Rock Racing in 10 or even 20 years. They have most certainly left an impression on everybody, good or bad.
> I thought it was a good show, and hope it continues.


I think they will mostly be mentioned as a joke unfortunatly, sorta like people still talk about the Linda McCartney Team or Nobel House.


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## den bakker

32and3cross said:


> I think they will mostly be mentioned as a joke unfortunatly, sorta like people still talk about the Linda McCartney Team or Nobel House.


team coast anyone?


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## 2ndGen

RoadCyclingNZ said:


> Two for two for Rock Racing in Spain's Vuelta Asturias, they seem far from dead. http://www.roadcycling.co.nz/RaceTalk/two-from-two-for-rock-racing.html


Didn't Velo News have them (Rock Racing) in the top 5 or top 3 of teams this past year?


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## 2ndGen

32and3cross said:


> I assume by snobs you mean anyone who was not a supporter.
> 
> Not really sure they did anything other than hire a bunch of very tainted riders usually at the expense of the non tainted guys they had, and run their team in such and ass-backward way that they failed. The potential was huge the execution was pretty poor, esp as I think they did very little to grow the brand of the sponsor they had, which in reality was job number 1.


No, absolutely not 32. 

Just people who don't like them because they don't fit "their" particular mold of what a road team should be, that's all. 

Oh, wait, does that sound like "not a supporter"? LMFAO! :lol: 

Seriously, to me a snob is someone who looks down on riders who don't have $600. shoes or a $5K bike between their legs. 

From the little I know about racing/teams, I agree that the execution was poor. 
This was certainly a situation where the teams handler needed to just fund the operation and let a real cycling pro work the team. 

But, again, you have a "team of individuals" who mostly all great in their own respect. 

It's like tieing up 4 Kentucky Derby Champions to one stage coach.


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## bigpinkt

*I don't have any of 2008's prize money. That's theft! He blatantly took EVERYBODY'S 2008 prize money! That's upwards of 6 to 10 thousand dollars per rider.*

Guys like Ball are so good for the sport

http://nyvelocity.com/content/interviews/2009/creed-feed-7


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## JSR

*And also this...*

"*Creed* As long as you showed up and wore his clothes, everything was perfect. And you just raced hard, you know, you had guys like Sevilla on the team, you just go out and THROTTLE yoruself, and know that they're going to come through. And it just left me open to race the way I like to race. I like to race those first two or three hours full out. Chase down breaks, bridging across...the team was getting paid well, it was really a stress free way of racing, and I loved it. And I think that's where maybe a little of heartbreak comes in, "Wow, I don't think there'll ever be a team that free for a while"."

Ball tried hard and failed miserably. C'est la vie.

JSR


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## 2ndGen




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## robdamanii

How is Rock Racing still relevant?


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## DZfan14

robdamanii said:


> How is Rock Racing still relevant?



I heard they'll give you a free water bottle if you buy a 240 dollar jersey.


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## 32and3cross

robdamanii said:


> How is Rock Racing still relevant?



At this point their not


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## 2ndGen

robdamanii said:


> How is Rock Racing still relevant?



Well, for one, they continue to give bike snobs anurysms!


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## 32and3cross

2ndGen said:


> Well, for one, they continue to give bike snobs anurysms!



Really only in your mind.


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## 2ndGen

:lol:

See?


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## gegarrenton

They still have the only REMOTELY decent looking kits in all of cycling.


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## cycledog81

Here is why this team should and will fail. Michael Ball screwed his riders, his sponsors and still owes thousands of dollars in wages and prize money to his 2008 team. He is a low life scum bag and treated his loyal riders like ****. He put people in charge that are totally clueless.and he doesn't have the BALLS to even call his "fired" riders, they read about it on VeloNews website. He flat lied to every one involved and *****es about no invite to Missouri, yet told everyone that they were taking their "A" team to Tour of Britian. Guess what ? they were a no show there !

Latest interview with Creed tell it all:
http://www.podiuminsight.com/2009/09/18/mike-creed-unplugged/

He screwed Bahati, Creed, Baldwin by puting them on the Am team because he didn't know how the UCI age requirement worked for Div 3 teams.
He not only has no BALLS but lacks a d*** as well.


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## 32and3cross

2ndGen said:


> :lol:
> 
> See?



Not really I was hardly aginst Rock being around still am not Ball just has not ability to run a team and isn't smart enough to let anyone else do it for him.

But hey keep patting yourself on the back and thinking that you made some point.


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## robdamanii

2ndGen said:


> Well, for one, they continue to give bike snobs anurysms!


Not really. They do nothing out of the ordinary.

They're nobody more than any other crappy continental team.

Hell, Kelly Benefit Strategies is more exciting to watch.


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## Mootsie

cycledog81 said:


> Here is why this team should and will fail. Michael Ball screwed his riders, his sponsors and still owes thousands of dollars in wages and prize money to his 2008 team. He is a low life scum bag and treated his loyal riders like ****. He put people in charge that are totally clueless.and he doesn't have the BALLS to even call his "fired" riders, they read about it on VeloNews website. He flat lied to every one involved and *****es about no invite to Missouri, yet told everyone that they were taking their "A" team to Tour of Britian. Guess what ? they were a no show there !
> 
> Latest interview with Creed tell it all:
> http://www.podiuminsight.com/2009/09/18/mike-creed-unplugged/
> 
> He screwed Bahati, Creed, Baldwin by puting them on the Am team because he didn't know how the UCI age requirement worked for Div 3 teams.
> He not only has no BALLS but lacks a d*** as well.


Amen brother.


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## 2ndGen

What type of season did they have this year?

Did they win regularly?

I'm sure you guys would know better than me, but how did they place this year?


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## 32and3cross

2ndGen said:


> What type of season did they have this year?
> 
> Did they win regularly?
> 
> I'm sure you guys would know better than me, but how did they place this year?



Their win at the Charlotte crit was great and they were one of the few domesticteams that tried to take it to Columbia at ToM.


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## cycledog81

2ndGen said:


> What type of season did they have this year?
> 
> Did they win regularly?
> 
> I'm sure you guys would know better than me, but how did they place this year?


Yes they won Cascade and Tour of Utah which you already know, but that is not the point to the discussion. Maybe that is impossible to get across to someone that has a icon of Rock Racing. The issue to me and many others is the Guy (Michael Ball) is a liar, con artist and talks out his A**. Tells everyone at a press conference that he is for a riders union to help protect the riders. Against what ? Team owners that steal their earned wages and doesn't pay ? Team owners that agree to contracts with riders that he knows he has no intention of honoring ? Team owners that piss of every potential sponsor buy playing them against each other ? Team owners that hire people into his organization that are totally clueless about UCI rules and then make his riders suffer by sending them to amateur status ? Team owners that fire riders through a public press release on a cycling website ? This isn't about the bad boy image they hyped or their clothing and the Escaldes, it's about running a honest and fair organization. Michael Ball has brought nothing of any value to cycling by any means. He makes John Wordin and his Mercury debacle look good at this point. The Team Results for Rock Racing will never justify how he has run the team and treated his riders. If it looks like a turd and smells like it, you don't have to eat it to figure your correct. Michael Ball is exactly that, just one big pile of dung.


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## Mootsie

32and3cross said:


> Their win at the Charlotte crit was great and they were one of the few domesticteams that tried to take it to Columbia at ToM.


ToM? 2008 maybe? They didn't race at ToM this year.


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## cycledog81

2008 only two finishers for Rock, Creed 35th and Wiscovitch 70th. Creed made into 3 break aways but that was it. For a guy that pissed and moaned about not getting an invite for 2009 TOM, he sure screwed this one up. Claims he was sending the "A" team to Tour of Britain which conflicted with TOM. How in the hell to expect to get an invite when you can't read a f******* UCI schedule. He had no one worth a s**** left to send to TOM. He only had 4 guys that carried UCI pro licenses left after supposedly sending the "A" team to Britain. How can you ***** about no invite when you can't field a team. Piss poor decision making again. You send the "A" team to Cascade and Tour of Utah, but fail to find TOM a priority for your American Team.
More than likely had he committed early that the "A" team would be available for TOM he migth of gotten the invite. As stated previously, Rock didn't show up in Britain after all the hoopla.


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## muscleendurance

jsedlak said:


> No matter how much I despise Fernando Alonso and his driving ability (lack there-of), I must concede that he really mixes things up with his whining and random top place finishes.


Im gonna do one of two things:

1) assume you know nothing about F1, or at least be only following it for 2 years

2) flame you because you actually have been following F1 longer than 2 years and so should know better.

Im gonna give you the benefit of the doubt here and say its 1. FYI Alonso is considered the best driver in F1 currently by many. :b*tchslap:


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## cycledog81

You got to love Twitter....short to the point and funnier than hell.
Point....counter point

Tweet from Rock Racing

http://twitter.com/rockracing

Rock Racing is getting ready to rock #Interbike with a big announcement tonight.

Followed by this tweet from Creed:

http://twitter.com/Michael_Creed

if @rockracing wants to shock people, they should try paying their riders. that would be nuts


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## DZfan14

cycledog81 said:


> Yes they won Cascade and Tour of Utah which you already know, but that is not the point to the discussion. Maybe that is impossible to get across to someone that has a icon of Rock Racing. The issue to me and many others is the Guy (Michael Ball) is a liar, con artist and talks out his A**. Tells everyone at a press conference that he is for a riders union to help protect the riders. Against what ? Team owners that steal their earned wages and doesn't pay ? Team owners that agree to contracts with riders that he knows he has no intention of honoring ? Team owners that piss of every potential sponsor buy playing them against each other ? Team owners that hire people into his organization that are totally clueless about UCI rules and then make his riders suffer by sending them to amateur status ? Team owners that fire riders through a public press release on a cycling website ? This isn't about the bad boy image they hyped or their clothing and the Escaldes, it's about running a honest and fair organization. Michael Ball has brought nothing of any value to cycling by any means. He makes John Wordin and his Mercury debacle look good at this point. The Team Results for Rock Racing will never justify how he has run the team and treated his riders. If it looks like a turd and smells like it, you don't have to eat it to figure your correct. Michael Ball is exactly that, just one big pile of dung.


Exactly, that are like a dot com or an Enron bust of an operation. A totally hollow organization that was destined to fail.


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## 2ndGen

Rock Racing Reveals New Partners, 
New Product Line For 2010 Exclusive Media First Look Event 
Wednesday September 23rd, 2009 at 8:40 AM

Las Vegas, Nevada - Rock Racing will introduce new partnerships with leading industry companies and unveil a full product line including three bicycle models, components, wheels, tires, helmets, shoes, kits, cycling lifestyle apparel and isotonic sports drinks.

Rock Racing Owner Michael Ball said the debut of the Rock Racing product line marries an *extremely successful cycling program *and brand with some of the most respected companies in the cycling industry.

_For 2010, six companies will partner with Rock Racing to leverage its brand:_

*Louis Garneau, 
Prologo, 
Shimano, 
FSA, 
Lightweight, 
Vittoria. *


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## robdamanii

Sure, Ball claims it's an extremely successful program. I can say I'm the king of England, but that doesn't make it so.

Remember, they are supposedly sponsored by Cadillac as well, but they just never gave the vehicles back that they borrowed. Classy.


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## 2ndGen

robdamanii said:


> Sure, Ball claims it's an extremely successful program. I can say I'm the king of England, but that doesn't make it so.


*Results for 2009 include:*
"Paco" Mancebo's stage 1 victory in the Amgen Tour of California

as well as his Final Overall GC victory in Spain's Vuelta a Asturias in which he, 
Sevilla, and Chadwick also each won a stage. 

David Vitoria scored back-to-back wins in March's Vuelta Mexico Telmex on his way to his third place podium finish in the Final Overall GC. 

In addition, he also won the Overall Mountains Classification. 

Vitoria, along with the defending champion Glen Chadwick's fifth place overall, led the team to the Final Overall Team Classification at the Mexican national tour. 

At June's Vuelta a Colombia, Victor Hugo Peña and Glen Chadwick each won a stage, while Oscar Sevilla was on his way to taking home the Overall Points Classification for this legendary event. 

Other top finishes include David Vitoria finishing fifth in the Commerce Bank Philadelphia International Championship, as well as Oscar Sevilla finishing fourth in a bunch sprint among his notable countrymen Ángel Vicioso and David Arroyo at Spain's Vuelta a Rioja.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rock_Racing#2009_Season


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## 2ndGen

The Rock Racing of other sports...When you're an underdog to begin with, all you have to do is "place" and you're a winner. What does that make you when you win? 

Triumphant.


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## den bakker

true, set the bar low enough and anyone can look like a winner


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## ServingTruth

I'd rather watch Vanderkitten than Rock... at least one will still be around in 5 years.


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## 2ndGen

den bakker said:


> true, set the bar low enough and anyone can look like a winner


But, when you actually "win" races, it doesn't matter how low the bar was before that.


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## 2ndGen

ServingTruth said:


> I'd rather watch Vanderkitten than Rock... at least one will still be around in 5 years.


I get such a kick out of that "pastor" on your avatar!

:lol: 

"R U laughin' now [female dog]?"

:lol:


That guy cracks me up!


----------



## robdamanii

2ndGen said:


> *Results for 2009 include:*
> "Paco" Mancebo's stage 1 victory in the Amgen Tour of California
> 
> as well as his Final Overall GC victory in Spain's Vuelta a Asturias in which he,
> Sevilla, and Chadwick also each won a stage.
> 
> David Vitoria scored back-to-back wins in March's Vuelta Mexico Telmex on his way to his third place podium finish in the Final Overall GC.
> 
> In addition, he also won the Overall Mountains Classification.
> 
> Vitoria, along with the defending champion Glen Chadwick's fifth place overall, led the team to the Final Overall Team Classification at the Mexican national tour.
> 
> At June's Vuelta a Colombia, Victor Hugo Peña and Glen Chadwick each won a stage, while Oscar Sevilla was on his way to taking home the Overall Points Classification for this legendary event.
> 
> Other top finishes include David Vitoria finishing fifth in the Commerce Bank Philadelphia International Championship, as well as Oscar Sevilla finishing fourth in a bunch sprint among his notable countrymen Ángel Vicioso and David Arroyo at Spain's Vuelta a Rioja.
> 
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rock_Racing#2009_Season


Any UCI wins?


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## 2ndGen

robdamanii said:


> Any UCI wins?


What's UCI?


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## Einstruzende

2ndGen said:


> What's UCI?


You're pulling our legs now...no way you can be around 1 year, with ~1000 posts and posting in a pro cycling forum at the end of the year and not know what that question means.


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## robdamanii

Einstruzende said:


> You're pulling our legs now...no way you can be around 1 year, with ~1000 posts and posting in a pro cycling forum at the end of the year and not know what that question means.


He's just a troll. And a dumb one at that.


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## 2ndGen

Einstruzende said:


> You're pulling our legs now...no way you can be around 1 year, with ~1000 posts and posting in a pro cycling forum at the end of the year and not know what that question means.


In all honesty E, I didn't post my Rock Racing thread here. 

It was moved here from the General Discussions Board by the moderators.

I don't read anything on this board (other than when I see what's posted on the RR threads).
So I don't have a clue as to what UCI is. 

I'm not really interested in professional racing (just rebellious people like Ball and his team of misfits). 

I love to see snobs of any kind be proven wrong.

Again, disliking RR doesn't automatically make someone a snob IMO 
(so please don't automatically take offense to that statement if you're not a snob).


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## robdamanii

2ndGen said:


> In all honesty E, I didn't post my Rock Racing here.
> 
> It was moved here from the General Discussions Board by the moderators.
> 
> I don't read anything on this board (other than when I see what's posted on the RR threads).So I don't have a clue as to what UCI is.
> 
> I'm not interested professional racing (just rebellious people like Ball and his team of misfits).
> 
> I love to see snobs of any kind be proven wrong.
> 
> Again, disliking RR doesn't automatically make someone a snob IMO (so please don't automatically take offense to that statement if you're not a snob).



I still have no clue what these supposed "snobs" are, and you're obviously not oratorically skilled enough to explain it.


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## 2ndGen

robdamanii said:


> He's just a troll. And a dumb one at that.


Insults?

Yeah, "I'm" the troll here...  

*troll* 
_A person who, on a message forum of some type, attacks and flames other members of the forum for any of a number of reasons such as rank, previous disagreements, sex, status, ect. 

A troll usually flames threads without staying on topic, unlike a "Flamer" who flames a thread because he/she disagrees with the content of the thread. _







Wow...I guess you're not going to actually answer my question then.

Ok.

:thumbsup:


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## 2ndGen

robdamanii said:


> I still have no clue what these supposed "snobs" are, and you're obviously not oratorically skilled enough to explain it.


Bring it...


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## robdamanii

2ndGen said:


> Insults?
> 
> Yeah, "I'm" the troll here...
> 
> *troll*
> _A person who, on a message forum of some type, attacks and flames other members of the forum for any of a number of reasons such as rank, previous disagreements, sex, status, ect.
> 
> A troll usually flames threads without staying on topic, unlike a "Flamer" who flames a thread because he/she disagrees with the content of the thread. _
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Wow...I guess you're not going to actually answer my question then.
> 
> Ok.
> 
> :thumbsup:


You fail at the internet.

http://lmgtfy.com/?q=UCI+Pro+Tour


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## robdamanii

2ndGen said:


> Bring it...


Pretty images not withstanding, what, pray tell, is a "snob" that you're so adamantly speaking of?


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## 2ndGen

robdamanii said:


> Pretty images not withstanding, what, pray tell, is a "snob" that you're so adamantly speaking of?


That's one of those "if you have to ask..." questions! 

:lol:


----------



## robdamanii

2ndGen said:


> That's one of those "if you have to ask..." questions!
> 
> :lol:


Says the guy posting in the "pro cycling discussion" forum and has no clue what the UCI is.

I guess you're just unable to explain what this supposed "snob" culture is. Too bad, I was really curious.


----------



## 2ndGen

robdamanii said:


> Says the guy posting in the "pro cycling discussion" forum and has no clue what the UCI is.
> 
> I guess you're just unable to explain what this supposed "snob" culture is. Too bad, I was really curious.


*"WOW!"*

Looks like you've been having a bad couple of weeks hey? 
If it wasn't for bad luck, you'd probably have none at all.
Seriously dude...my condolences. 
Hope things work out for you.

:17: 


(No wonder you're so grouchy...)


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## MarvinK

nice thread


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## 2ndGen

MarvinK said:


> nice thread



:lol:

Not anymore!

I seriously bowed out! 

:lol:


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## robdamanii

2ndGen said:


> :lol:
> 
> Not anymore!
> 
> I seriously bowed out!
> 
> :lol:


Yet you're still posting. 

Howabout all those NRC wins? Aren't those a mark of an awesome team?


----------

