# Road bike sizing problem!



## RTUNED87 (Aug 27, 2010)

Hello Everyone,

Im new to the bike forums and Im in need of some help so someone please help me.

Height is 5'9 3/4 with out shoes
Inseam is 31.25 with out shoes
Torso lenght is 26in 
Arm length is 25in

Now I tried adding things up on the chart but I cant get a stright answer what kinda frame do I need with the right standover people are saying you need 1in or more from crotch to top tube is it really needed or important? Also is that with shoes on or off when standing over the bike im guessing on! So I went to a LBS and they said a specialized 56 is for me but another LBS said a 54 and a buddy told me 52 but I think 52 is too small! Now this would help alot if you guys can kindly help me with some answers here.I got on my buddies new 56 specialized allez comp and grabbing the hoods and looking down at the bars the bottom front hub of the wheels was behind the bars and I seen a video saying that with your hands on the hoods looking at were the bar clamps the hub should be seen under that not in front and not behind for a proper reach is that correct?
here is the video!!!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FAl_5e7bIHk

So I hope I listed enough informating to help someone help me get an answer

This would be for a road bike and so far what im looking at my LBS is either the 2010 specialized allez comp in flat black with carbon seatstays e5 or getting the framset of a specialized 2010 sl3 s-works tarmac in black carbon and build it up give me your feed back.

Much Thanks:thumbsup:


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## PJ352 (Dec 5, 2007)

RTUNED87 said:


> Hello Everyone,
> 
> Im new to the bike forums and Im in need of some help so someone please help me.
> 
> ...


Keeping in mind that I only have the info you've provided to offer suggestions, here are some thoughts.

While standover matters somewhat, when looking at compact geo bikes (like the Allez and Tarmac) it becomes somewhat of a moot point because of the sloping top tube. It's far more important to get reach requirements met initially, then worry about saddle to bar drop and setback. Once those requirements were met, standover would likely be adaquate.

Before I even got to the part about what the LBS's or your friends offered, I thought that you'd take either a 54 or 56. While the feedback about your friends 56cm Allez may help, without knowing how the bike was set up (stem length/ angle/ saddle setback), it's of limited value.

Almost for certain, the 52 would be too small, and I suspect you'd feel somewhat stretched on the 56, so I would ask the LBS to set you up on a 54 and test ride the bike. The Allez and Tarmac geo is _very_ similar, so either bike they had available would suite the purpose of narrowing your frame size, and the process for tweaking fit would essentially be the same. 

If the 54 could be set up using a 100-120mm stem, KOPS could be set and the bike tweaked for your comfort from there, I'd go with that size. If it ended up that even with a 120mm stem you felt somewhat cramped and/ or the LBS had trouble setting KOPS (or you just felt uncomfortable on the bike), then the 56 may be worth a look, but I don't think that's going to be the case.

HTH...


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## Mr. Versatile (Nov 24, 2005)

Are you male or female?


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## nismo73 (Jul 29, 2009)

Your height is on the low end of a 56 frame...so no way on the 52!


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## RTUNED87 (Aug 27, 2010)

I am a male!


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## iebobo (Jun 23, 2006)

I am 5'11" and ride a 56 Roubaix with a 90mm stem. With your height, I'd try a 54. As PJ said, worry more about reach than standover.


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## RTUNED87 (Aug 27, 2010)

Thanks PJ and everone else for your imput this is helping alot so the 56 specialized has a 4.5 inch stem making it 114.3mm and I was told I can just get a shorter stem and push the seat more closer but wont that mess up the geo of the bike?Now when I get this done im planning to get a BG fit so I really dont want any problems with the frame being to big, long or too small im planing on doing local races nothing serious and some long rides also I like climbing hills maybe 1-2 days out of the week so I really need a good fit road bike cause the bike im using is killing me  so having the right reach is a must and also when you drop the plum line from the knee to the center pedel axel you still have to adjust the seat but if the bike tube is long wont I come across some issues like if I need to be pushed back or forward I need a shorter/longer stem. here are the specs of the allez comp and the frameset sl3 56 and the 54 

*S-Works Tarmac SL3 Frameset Size 54 56* 










and *Allez comp 54 56*








*And a chart I found but my inseam dont match my height*


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## PJ352 (Dec 5, 2007)

RTUNED87 said:


> Thanks PJ and everone else for your imput this is helping alot so the 56 specialized has a 4.5 inch stem making it 114.3mm and *I was told I can just get a shorter stem and push the seat more closer* but wont that mess up the geo of the bike?Now when I get this done im planning to get a BG fit so I really dont want any problems with the frame being to big, long or too small im planing on doing local races nothing serious and some long rides also I like climbing hills maybe 1-2 days out of the week so I really need a good fit road bike cause the bike im using is killing me  so having the right reach is a must and also when you drop the plum line from the knee to the center pedel axel you still have to adjust the seat but if the bike tube is long wont I come across some issues like if I need to be pushed back or forward I need a shorter/longer stem. here are the specs of the allez comp and the frameset sl3 56 and the 54


I hope the person that offered that you could "move the seat closer" (presumably to reduce reach) doesn't work in a bike shop, because they're giving out bad advice. 

Fore/ aft saddle adjustments are for setting KOPS/ setback and should not be adjusted to correct for reach. And while it's common practice to change stem lengths to meet reach requirements, I'm not understanding why the goal is to get you on a 56cm bike. If that's determined to be the better fitting bike, then that's what you should get, but I don't see it as the 'better' choice.

Forget that last chart. It doesn't match your height because it doesn't know your proportions and will only serve to confuse you. Refer back to my initial post and have your LBS fitter set you up on a 54cm bike. If racing is in your future and you're flexible enough to tolerate a moderate to aggressive saddle to bar drop, going with the slightly smaller frame size offers some advantage (because of the shorter HT length), _but only if it's determined by the fitter that the frame fits you correctly_, otherwise the 56cm is a viable option.

Lastly, don't fret too much over setting KOPS. With the vast majority of cyclists that measurement (+/- some) will fall into place on a correctly sized bike. That's why working with a reputable LBS and experienced fitter is so important.

You mentioned getting the BG fit. That given, I suggest you look for a certified fitter and work with them on sizing you, then fitting you to the bike, as opposed to buying elsewhere and having them work with what you've already purchased.


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## RTUNED87 (Aug 27, 2010)

PJ352 said:


> but only if it's determined by the fitter that the frame fits you correctly, otherwise the 56cm is a viable option.



Im so glad you gave me your two cents it made me understand it better.Know im sorry but what is KOPS and what do you mean the 56 is viable i tought it was out of an option and the 54cm is for me.I dont see why the 56 would be an option for racing.Im sorry for being a little slow but im new at this and im glad you made time to break it down for me I really thank you and yea it was a bike shop (incycle) they pushed the 56 on me.


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## PJ352 (Dec 5, 2007)

RTUNED87 said:


> Im so glad you gave me your two cents it made me understand it better.Know im sorry but what is KOPS and what do you mean the 56 is viable i tought it was out of an option and the 54cm is for me.I dont see why the 56 would be an option for racing.Im sorry for being a little slow but im new at this and im glad you made time to break it down for me I really thank you and yea it was a bike shop (incycle) they pushed the 56 on me.


No need for apologies. Asking questions is all part of the process here. 

KOPS is knee over pedal spindle. You referred to it when you mentioned dropping the line from knee through the pedal spindle, so you're familiar with it, you just don't know you are.  

Regarding the 56 being a viable option... as far as I know, you haven't yet been sized by a LBS, so until that's been done, you've been set up for and test ridden a bike, I wouldn't rule out the 56. If I confused you by saying the 54 offered a slight advantage if you were to race, my apologies. I only offered that because it would allow a more aggressive rider position, but that in no way means you can't race a 56 if that's determined to be your size. _Let fit drive what frame size you buy, not one minor difference in geo._

Regarding your experiences with that LBS, same deal. Don't let them dictate to you which frame size is best. If they aren't willing to set you up on both sizes for test rides, go find another Specialized dealer that will. IMO a bike shop that isn't looking out for your best interests isn't reputable.

If OTOH you have no other choices for Spec dealers in your area, I see these options:
- press that LBS to set the two bikes up for you to test ride (and make sure they don't use fore/ aft saddle adjustment to correct for reach deficiencies by setting KOPS).
- drive further to another Spec dealer.
- broaden your search to include other brands/ models and deal with those LBS's.


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## aengbretson (Sep 17, 2009)

You and I may be of similar proportions. I'm slightly taller but our inseam to height and arm length to height ratios are almost exactly the same. I ride a 56cm cannondale (which fits in between the Tarmac 54 and 56: a TT of 560mm and a HT of 155mm) with a 110mm stem, medium-drop bars (145mm), and a 15mm headcap (no spacers between cap and stem). From your size I’d be inclined to go with the 54, but definitely have a shop set up both for you. I’ve had shops take more than an hour putting me on a bike in both 54 and 56, with multiple stem lengths and varying stem heights just to see where I’m most comfortable. There’s a reason that shop continues to get my business! You’re making a big investment in buying a bike, the shop should realize that and try to earn your business (as long as you’re nice to them too!).

I’ve heard great things about the BG fit but have never been through it myself.


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## RTUNED87 (Aug 27, 2010)

oh ok but the LBS did size me up and they put me on the 56 rather then the 54 but I was just tring to relize why, On the 56 the handlebars fill out when standing over the bike my crotch is on the frame and when I grab the hoods and look down at the bars it doesnt line up its far more before the front rim axel so meaning im to far out right?Now that being said if I did go with the 56 I need to change the stem and my stand over wont be so good maybe 1/2 an inch with shoes on. stand over height of the bike is taller then me by 1/2 an inch with shoes off. but on the 54 stand over wont be a problem.Now is it better the have a dead on size or just a tad mm to big or a one below meaning if your working on a frame thats mm's in problems is it best to work on that 56 one or go down to a size like 54.


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## PJ352 (Dec 5, 2007)

RTUNED87 said:


> oh ok but *the LBS did size me up and they put me on the 56 rather then the 54 but I was just tring to relize why,* On the 56 the handlebars fill out when standing over the bike my crotch is on the frame and when I grab the hoods and look down at the bars it doesnt line up its far more before the front rim axel so meaning im to far out right?Now that being said if I did go with the 56 I need to change the stem and my stand over wont be so good maybe 1/2 an inch with shoes on. stand over height of the bike is taller then me by 1/2 an inch with shoes off. but on the 54 stand over wont be a problem.Now is it better the have a dead on size or just a tad mm to big or a one below meaning if your working on a frame thats mm's in problems is it best to work on that 56 one or go down to a size like 54.


I'd like to know the answer to the bolded statement myself. I don't know what methods the LBS used to determine your size (and didn't follow all you offered), but as aengbretson mentioned: 
_"I’ve had shops take more than an hour putting me on a bike in both 54 and 56, with multiple stem lengths and varying stem heights just to see where I’m most comfortable"_ 

That's what I'm saying your LBS should be doing. I think there's enough room for doubt (concerning your sizing requirements) to warrant that. They should be placing the test bikes (both 54 and 56's) on a trainer, setting you up on both and sending you off on test rides. IMO/E that's the best way to sort this sizing issue out. 

Again I say, if they can't (or simply won't) do this, explore other options.


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## felix5150 (Mar 15, 2009)

Don't know which location you went into, but their shops in San Dimas and Chino have reputations for being more about the sale rather than customer service. Did they have 54's in stock or were they trying to push the 56? Don't know if their Pasadena and Rancho Cucumonga locations have the same attitude, but its the same owner, so I'm guessing yes. There are other Spesh dealers in the area, which I would go to because it sounds like they "fitted" you based on height and a chart or maybe just standing over a bike, rather than spending the time to get it right. One of the bike shops here in San Diego, spends about 2 hours on a fit bike first, and once that is completed, they talk about which bikes are the best fit. They also give you options on brands of bikes that they don't carry. The fit is $200, which you pay only if you don't buy a bike through them. Talking to the owner and one of the mechanics for about an hour about the process, costs, bike brands, etc..., convinced me to buy my next bike there.


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## aengbretson (Sep 17, 2009)

I'll start off by saying standover is not a good way of determining your frame size, but if you don't have much in the way of clearance on a sloping/compact frame then it *might* be too big for you. The 1-2" clearance idea was made back when pretty much all bkes had level top tubes. However Specialized clearly has a pronounced slope on their top tubes due to compact geometry. This renders the concept of standover clearance much less useful. Where are you taking this 1/2" measurement? The midpoint? Nearer to the head tube or seat tube? Also, I'm assuming you're seated when you talk about trying to see if the handlebars align with the front wheel's hub...


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## budmol3 (Dec 7, 2008)

Is that inseam measured by the 'book' method or a measurement for pants sizing? If its the former then it seems that your torso would be longer than the average for your height and that would tend toward the 56 in order to have the proper reach.


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## terbennett (Apr 1, 2006)

felix5150 said:


> Don't know which location you went into, but their shops in San Dimas and Chino have reputations for being more about the sale rather than customer service. Did they have 54's in stock or were they trying to push the 56? Don't know if their Pasadena and Rancho Cucumonga locations have the same attitude, but its the same owner, so I'm guessing yes. There are other Spesh dealers in the area, which I would go to because it sounds like they "fitted" you based on height and a chart or maybe just standing over a bike, rather than spending the time to get it right. One of the bike shops here in San Diego, spends about 2 hours on a fit bike first, and once that is completed, they talk about which bikes are the best fit. They also give you options on brands of bikes that they don't carry. The fit is $200, which you pay only if you don't buy a bike through them. Talking to the owner and one of the mechanics for about an hour about the process, costs, bike brands, etc..., convinced me to buy my next bike there.


I live in Chino and the Incycle in Chino is not a place I would buy from. My advice? Go to the nearest Rock n' Road. I believe that Rock n Road is a Specialized concept store and they have a a few shops around. They really take the time to work with you on fit- not just looking at your size, but getting you on the bike. I was looking at Specialized Tarmac and they did everything they could to get me fitted. For some reason, the Specialized's current geometry didn't fit me well. I mean based on what I asked for and what they did, it should have but the bike still didn't feel right. I ride a Felt because it fit perfectly. The geo is similar to C-dale and older Specialized frames. I went to Incycle and they basically spoke to me like they know best. If OC is just too much of a hassle, just go to another Specialized dealer


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## RTUNED87 (Aug 27, 2010)

Its the book way and a 56 has to much reach


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## RTUNED87 (Aug 27, 2010)

aengbretson said:


> Where are you taking this 1/2" measurement? The midpoint? Nearer to the head tube or seat tube? Also, I'm assuming you're seated when you talk about trying to see if the handlebars align with the front wheel's hub...


I got it by hoping off the bike standing over it infront of the seat so im guessing midtube and when looking at the bars I am seated and my hands on the hoods .


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## aengbretson (Sep 17, 2009)

Disclaimer: I'm not an expert, and any advice I give has to be taken with a grain of salt because I haven't seen you on the bike(s).

Now that we have that out of the way, from what you're saying the 54 might be a better size. Given that you're smaller than I am and a 56 Specialized is larger than my 56 Cannondale, I can't see you riding a bike bigger than mine.


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## PJ352 (Dec 5, 2007)

To a point it's fine for us to offer educated opinions on your sizing requirements (and I think many here have done their best in that regard), but fact is there are as many unknowns through this thread as there are hard facts. 

That given, you need to seek out a reputable LBS that isn't trying to sell you something on their floor (which I suspect is the case here) and let an experienced fitter decide your requirements. That's not to say that you should take a passive role and not speak your mind about how you feel during the fitting/ test rides (or even come back here and get input), but the onus should not be on you to 'guess' sizing or second guess a fitter that won't put you on both a 54 and 56.

Some here apparently are familiar with the chain or shop you're going to and have offered a number of reasons not to. That may be the best advice anyone's given you thus far.


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## RTUNED87 (Aug 27, 2010)

Thanks, im gonna be checking out Rock n Road along with some others I really like all the help and my friend was saying to me the other day "If the 56 has a semi-long reach and standover isnt just right going with the 54 won't be bad at all" meaning like most said here a size smaller offers an advantage for racing for a more aero drop and the frame is a tad shorter so my reach wont be so stretched.But is their anything bad about running a frame size lower.


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## PJ352 (Dec 5, 2007)

RTUNED87 said:


> Thanks, im gonna be checking out Rock n Road along with some others I really like all the help and my friend was saying to me the other day "If the 56 has a semi-long reach and standover isnt just right going with the 54 won't be bad at all" meaning like most said here a size smaller offers an advantage for racing for a more aero drop and the frame is a tad shorter so my reach wont be so stretched.But *is their anything bad about running a frame size lower*.


It hasn't yet been determined that you take a 56cm Allez or Tarmac, so you aren't 'running a frame size lower'. Once the fitter determines which is the better fit, that will be your ideal size. If you're between sizes (pretty near, exactly) s/he may discuss the advantages and disadvantages of both - as we've done here and you touched on in your last post. But honestly, from everything you've offered, I'd be surprised if you left the store with a 56cm Specialized.


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## RTUNED87 (Aug 27, 2010)

PJ352 said:


> But honestly, from everything you've offered, I'd be surprised if you left the store with a 56cm Specialized.


What do you mean by that?


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## felix5150 (Mar 15, 2009)

You need to speak to a qualified bike fitter and try out the 54, only then will you be able to determine if it is the correct size or is a size smaller than what you need. The only time you should choose between a size larger or smaller is if you are truly between sizes. And nothing said so far indicates that this is really the case. IMO, if I were between two sizes, I would go with a size smaller as long as it didn't result in a ridiculously long stem and/or extreme seat position. You can make the bike a little longer to make it fit, but you can't shrink it if the tt is too long. Plus a shorter stem could also make the bike handle a bit squirrelly. The Allez and Tarmac have quick steering to begin with.

The other thing is, the ability to not see your hub over the handlebars and using online fit calculators, will only get you into the ballpark for fit. I have 2 road bikes with slightly different geometry but with my reach and seat position set up the same. I can see part of the hub on one bike, but the fit is correct.


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## skizzle86 (Apr 15, 2010)

He means that if the shop is really looking out for you then they will sell you the right size and not just put you on a 56 to make a sale.


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## PJ352 (Dec 5, 2007)

RTUNED87 said:


> What do you mean by that?


What I meant was that (IMO) there are indications that a 56 isn't your best option, so I'd be surprised if you actually ended up with that size (at least in the bikes in question).

I think once you start working with an experienced fitter you'll be surprised how this will fall into place. Trust us on this, it's worth the effort to seek out that reputable shop because the result is likely to be an optimal fit, and that's what'll keep you riding efficiently (especially if you race) and in relative comfort.


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## Trek2.3 (Sep 13, 2009)

RTUNED87 said:


> when standing over the bike my crotch is *on* the frame


This is actual physical measurement, right? Then the BS about straight v. sloping top bar is just that. Whatever the bar does, it hits YOU (not the other guy) in your n*ts. No problem if you never get off your bike, never stop at a stop sign, or have had interesting surgery. Otherwise this is a crucial measurement of comfort if not racer's "fit."

Don't accept a frame that hits you there. It is too big, go down a size. Or try another manufacturer (there is no consistency in their labeling re "size"). 

That said, you can probably live with 1/2 inch clearance (I do) but NO LESS.


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## scottgps (Sep 11, 2010)

Try using the fit calculators on competitivecyclist.com, wrenchscience and pedalforce. 

I spent one day looking at several bike shops and was put on 51, 54's and 56's (even tho I told them that my 54 cyclocross bike was too large). I was more confused listening to the salesmen. 

I came home, educated my self online with the above sites and ended up getting a Neuvation F100. I will see if I was right in appx. 6 days (not that I am counting)

Scott


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## RTUNED87 (Aug 27, 2010)

so what size did you end up getting?


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## scottgps (Sep 11, 2010)

51....Makes sense that I can make a smaller bike fit easier then a larger bike.


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## PJ352 (Dec 5, 2007)

scottgps said:


> 51....Makes sense that I can make a smaller bike fit easier then a larger bike.


To a point, but there also comes a point where you're making incorrect adjustments to meet reach requirements, such as sliding the saddle back,straying too far from KOPS and/ or running an excessively long stem. Stray far enough, and f/r weight distribution (thus, handling) can suffer.

IME_ the best _online calculators can do is suggest a _range_ of measurements that might work for a given rider. That's not really good enough if someone needs to pin down sizing requirements.

As far as being confused by LBS salesman, that may be because you (and they) got too hung up on the frame size numbers. There are no standards for measuring to determine frame sizes, so brand a's 52 is brand b's 54, so it's possible you would take a larger size in another make/ model. And remember, the 51 Neuvation is a guess, because you couldn't test ride the bike before deciding. 

OP: I suggest you stay on course with finding a reputable shop to assist you in determining sizing. IMO/E it'll better your odds of you ending up with the right bike _for you._


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## scottgps (Sep 11, 2010)

My fingers are indeed crossed. However.......I have been riding my current bike for appx. one year. I know that I can't make it fit (I even splurged on a 70mm stem which did help some with the pain in my shoulders).

I certainly wish that I had a LBS to help me out with this daunting process. Perhaps the OP will find that shop. I hope so. I did not. So for me, I have to learn on the net then hope I guessed correctly.

Scott


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## PJ352 (Dec 5, 2007)

scottgps said:


> My fingers are indeed crossed. However.......I have been riding my current bike for appx. one year. I know that I can't make it fit (I even splurged on a 70mm stem which did help some with the pain in my shoulders).
> 
> I certainly wish that I had a LBS to help me out with this daunting process. Perhaps the OP will find that shop. I hope so. I did not. So for me, I have to learn on the net then hope I guessed correctly.
> 
> Scott


Points taken. Having your first bike to serve as a baseline (albeit, an ill fitting one) does give you an inside edge on getting sizing right. Just by offering that you ran a 70mm stem tells me the bike was too big, so you now know the deficiencies in fit and what you need to look for (in reach requirements) too avoid the same on your Neuvation. 

You were careful in this process, so I'd bet you'll be fine, but the OP (and many others here) don't have the same experiences. For them, sizing/ fitting assistance is important.


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## scottgps (Sep 11, 2010)

*color me nervous*

PJ352, I am very cheap...but have learned the hard way that buying the cheapest thing out there does not always make the most sense. 

I am pretty certain I am getting the right bike for me...but it is not here yet. 

Sweating....

Scott


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## tagalong_mn (Aug 12, 2008)

Putting my $.02 in -- PJ352 is giving very, very solid advice; you should listen. Fit is the most important thing, next look to your budget and then overall aesthetics.

Finding a LBS that will take the time to work with you is important. Through my recent search, I first shopped the stores themselves to get a feel for which would take the most care to fit me. From there, I researched the brands that they carried and test rode a number of different models and sizes. Once I narrowed down to a few that felt the best, I spent time with the shop to tweak various things (stem length, saddle height, bar height) to dial-in the best fit for me across 2 different frame sizes. I walked away with a good experience, a great fitting bike and knowledge that the shop was there to help me (not to just sell a bike).

FWIW, I didn't go with the shop closest to my home and I've only had to make a few minor adjustments since brining it home about 3 weeks ago and putting on 200+ miles (I ended up wanting to lower the bars 2 spacers -- I had the LBS do it; it gave me an excuse to browse and spend more $$ while I waited and to take them up on their offer for free adjustments).

Sure, this process was time consuming and, in some cases, a PITA because the shop is around 40+ miles away from home. But well worth the time/effort...


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## scottgps (Sep 11, 2010)

Count yourself very lucky that you found a great bike shop. 

Scott


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## tagalong_mn (Aug 12, 2008)

scottgps said:


> Count yourself very lucky that you found a great bike shop.
> 
> Scott


Lucky? Well, yes and no... I visited a handful of shops and found 3 that appealed to me. It wasn't like I just stumbled upon them, I had to spend the time to go to a number of shops and talk with the sales people to find the right match for what I was looking for.

That said, yeah, I'm happy that I took the time to find a good LBS. I'll agree that I am lucky in that there were a few shops I found to pick from that carried different manufacturers.


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## RTUNED87 (Aug 27, 2010)

ok so I went and tried some bikes out and I was fitted to a 54cm for sure but I dont really like any of the bikes in my size I also checked around and no luck I did find a bike I liked but! its a 52cm I dont know if that would be a problem? I heard that pro racers use smaller bikes is that true?


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## scottgps (Sep 11, 2010)

I have received and ridden my Neuvation F100 in 51. Appx. 3 days after taken delivery, and not working too hard to fit it to me, I rode 47 miles which is longer then I have ridden since I got back into cycling. 

I felt it but none of the problems I'd had with my old (too big) bike. Having said that, I would probably fit a 52 better but that seems to be splitting hairs. 

My suggestion is to use an online fit calculator and understand why you need a certain size. Then use this information to understand why the LBS sized you how they did. Ask questions. 

I would have preferred to use a LBS but I just didn't find one that was a good fit. 

Good luck
Scott


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## PJ352 (Dec 5, 2007)

RTUNED87 said:


> ok so I went and tried some bikes out and I was fitted to a 54cm for sure but I dont really like any of the bikes in my size I also checked around and no luck I did find a bike I liked but! its a 52cm I dont know if that would be a problem? I heard that pro racers use smaller bikes is that true?


You're focusing far too much on the stated frame sizes of these bikes. Now that you've been sized/ fitted to a 54cm bike, you need to make note of that brand/ model and compare its geometry to others, like the brand/ model of the 52cm bike you rode and liked. 

Keep in mind that there are no standards used for measuring to determine frame sizes, so a Trek Madone 54 could be close to a Specilaized Tarmac 52 or another brands 47 (seriously).

Regarding the online fit calculators mentioned, I wouldn't bother. Assuming the LBS used reliable methods to do so, you've already been sized and fitted. All you need to do is use that bike as your baseline and compare it to others of interest. IME the online fit calculators won't net you better (or even as good) results.


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## RTUNED87 (Aug 27, 2010)

I know what you mean but I was fitted to a 54 specialized allez and I dont like any of the new models and I wont go for anything other then specialized so I seen a framset 2010 specialized s-works sl3 in the flate black but its a 52 and I havent got on it cause its a framset.


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## PJ352 (Dec 5, 2007)

RTUNED87 said:


> I know what you mean but I was fitted to a 54 specialized allez and I dont like any of the new models and I wont go for anything other then specialized so I seen a framset 2010 specialized s-works sl3 in the flate black but its a 52 and I havent got on it cause its a framset.


If you've been sized/ fitted to a 54cm Allez, it felt good and you have confidence in the fitters abilities, then odds are that you're going to need a 54cm in the SL3. The geometry is that close. 

It's best to discuss this with the fitter, because s/he's seen and worked with you. Depending on the final fit on the 54, you may or may not get a good fit on the 52, but again, the fitter is the one to make that determination. If your fit is near optimal on the 54cm Allez, then it would be to your advantage to order a 54cm SL3.


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## RTUNED87 (Aug 27, 2010)

so can i ride a 52 or will it cause a problem?? im a 54 but the bike i wana build up the only one left is a 52cm frameset???


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## PJ352 (Dec 5, 2007)

RTUNED87 said:


> so can i ride a 52 or will it cause a problem?? im a 54 but the bike i wana build up the only one left is a 52cm frameset???


I don't think anyone can reliably answer your question. How you're proportioned, if you're between sizes 52 and 54, your fitness/ flexibility and style of riding all enter into the equation. 

As an example, if the fitter sized you to a 54 but ran a 90mm stem to dial in fit, then I'd say a 52 _may_ be a better choice. OTOH, if the fitter ran a 110mm stem on the 54m, I'd say a 52 would not be a good choice. As mentioned, this is a general example, because other factors such as KOPS setting and saddle to bar drop aren't being into taken into consideration, and both matter. 

I think it's best to get input from the LBS fitter on this and if they think the 52 is a viable alternative, see if you can work something out with the owner/ manager on building up the frameset for you. Then the fitter can tweak fit to suite you and after a test ride, both decide which size fits/ feels better.

EDIT: This thread has been going on since 8/31, so memories (of info shared) fade, but I went back to your initial post where you provide your measurements. After seeing them, I highly doubt a 52 is going to fit you, and 'making it fit' isn't a wise move, IMHO.


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## RTUNED87 (Aug 27, 2010)

ok but I know the main thing that matters is the *Top Tube Length* and the *Stand Over Height* doesnt matter so much cause you can adjust the seat post but if im good on a STOCK specialized allez and the Top Tube Length is 54.8 on a 54cm and the 52cm is a 53.7 is that a real big difference? its because I want the 2010 tarmac sworks and the only one I found left is in a framset and their is only a 52 and 56 but 56 is too big.can I get the 52 and get a longer stem or will it be too long of a stem?


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## PJ352 (Dec 5, 2007)

RTUNED87 said:


> ok but i know the main thing that matters is the *Top Tube Length* and the *Stand Over Height* doesnt matter so much cause you can adjust the seat post but if im good on a STOCK specialized allez and the Top Tube Length is 54.8 on a 54cm and the 52cm is 53.7 is that a reall big difference? its because i want the 2010 tarmac sworks and the only one i found left in a framset is a 52 and 56 but 56 is too big.can i get the 52 and get a longer stem or will it be too long?


While it's true that getting reach requirements right (which in part is dictated by effective TT) is of primary importance, you're oversimplifying that step by saying there's only 11mm's difference between the two frame sizes. For one, because the the seat tube angle slackens by .5 degrees on the 54, reach differs between the 52 and 54 by 16mm's. Also, you don't know (or haven't shared) what stem length the fitter used on the 54. As I posted previously, if it was a 90mm, there's a possibility that the 52 _may_ meet your reach requirements, but if it was a 110, then the 52 wouldn't be the best choice. 

Also, keep in mind that as you downsize, the head tube length runs shorter (by 2.5cm's on the 52), but saddle height is a constant. This dictates that (all else being equal) you'll have substantially greater saddle to bar drop on the 52. Unless you're able to tolerate that, or are willing to run max spacers and a flipped up stem, the 54 might be a better option. 

I know that you're trying to find a way to make the 52 work, but I'm of the mind that a fairly narrow range of (geometry) parameters work well for a given rider, so once sizing requirements have been determined, sizing up (or down) isn't something I see a lot of value in, because doing so necessitates compromises to fit that wouldn't normally be required. That given, if you have confidence in the LBS fitter, I think deferring to him/ her is your best course of action.


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## Trek2.3 (Sep 13, 2009)

PJ352 said:


> Keep in mind that there are no standards used for measuring to determine frame sizes,


The truly amazing thing is that CUSTOMERS let them get away with this. 

It's your time and money that gets lost because you can't compare apples to apples with respect to the bicycle industry. You can't even compare bicycles of the same model and series with assurance because many of the numbers in the manufacturer's _published_ "geometry" charts are fictional.


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## RTUNED87 (Aug 27, 2010)

100mm stem they used on the 54 and to correct things im 5'10 with a 32 1/2in inseam with shoes on.


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## RTUNED87 (Aug 27, 2010)

I think the 52 isn't going to work but I been calling around and I did find another frame im interested in but its a 56cm specialized tarmac frame which makes it a 56.5cm top tube length.


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## PJ352 (Dec 5, 2007)

RTUNED87 said:


> I think the 52 isn't going to work but I been calling around and I did find another frame im interested in but its a 56cm specialized tarmac frame which makes it a 56.5cm top tube length.


I agree that the 52 isn't going to work - at least not as well as the 54 would. Considering your height and inseam, you're proportioned shorter legs/ longer torso, so to make up the 16mm difference between the 52 and 54 you'd run a 120mm stem flipped up to make up for the 2.5cm loss in head tube length. That given, IMO the 54 offers a better f/r weight distribution running the 100mm stem.

It's easier to determine the 56 is too big for you, because you'd run an 80mm stem to adjust for the longer efffective top tube, and (considering your inseam of 31.25 inches), you'll likely not have adaquate standover (31.5 inches).


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## RTUNED87 (Aug 27, 2010)

they measured me I was wrong on the 31.25 im a 32 1/2 with shoes


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## PJ352 (Dec 5, 2007)

RTUNED87 said:


> they measured me I was wrong on the 31.25 im a 32 1/2 with shoes


Your* cycling *inseam is measured _without _shoes. But that aside, standover should be a _comfortable_ inch _plus_ from your crotch, which is going to be more than 32.5 inches. The standover on the 56 is 31.5 inches. That and the fact that you'd be running an 80mm stem clearly shows the bike isn't sized correctly for you.

I suggest you stop considering any Tarmac's other than 54cm's. If something isn't available in that size IMO it shouldn't be considered.


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## RTUNED87 (Aug 27, 2010)

well if I do get the 56 whats the worst that could happen cause for the price I can get the frame I can maybe deal with the cons! My buddies friend has a specialized 56 with an 80mm and he's fine with it got it used for cheap.I was riding it around and it felt better then a 54.plus my standover was almost about an inch on the 56 and I said 32.5 with shoes cause im not gonna ride with out shoes.


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## PJ352 (Dec 5, 2007)

RTUNED87 said:


> well if I do get the 56 whats the worst that could happen cause for the price I can get the frame I can maybe deal with the cons! My buddies friend has a specialized 56 with an 80mm and he's fine with it got it used for cheap.I was riding it around and it felt better then a 54.plus my standover was almost about an inch on the 56 and I said 32.5 with shoes cause im not gonna ride with out shoes.


If in your opinion price trumps fit, by all means operate under that premise. I don't. IMO/E fit comes first, so if your optimal fit is attained on a 54cm Specialized Tarmac, then that's the _only_ option you have. Not a 52 because you like the model and not a 56 because it's cheap. A 54, period.

If you're at all serious about road riding, I suggest you return to the LBS where you were fitted and discuss these other options with them. I've already posted the 'cons' of going with less than ideal sizes and it's clear that you don't want to believe me.


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## RTUNED87 (Aug 27, 2010)

I wasnt fitted to a 54 allez and at that they made it work if I was able to get the right size it would have to be a 55/55.5 but they dont make one.And like the guy told me just cause we use the latest computers dont mean its gonna be right if your not relaxed and like how its rides its not gonna work.

and plus I have a 54 allez and I dont like it.


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## PJ352 (Dec 5, 2007)

RTUNED87 said:


> I wasnt fitted to a 54 allez and at that they made it work if I was able to get the right size it would have to be a 55/55.5 but they dont make one.And like the guy told me just cause we use the latest computers dont mean its gonna be right if your not relaxed and like how its rides its not gonna work.
> 
> and plus I have a 54 allez and I dont like it.


I didn't say you were fitted to a 54 Allez, but it wouldn't matter if you were. The geo of the 54cm Tarmac is close enough that they'd fit the same.

Given your measurements and what you offered about running a 100mm stem on a 54cm Tarmac, what you're now saying about needing a larger size doesn't add up. To reiterate, you'd run about an 80mm stem and have less than an inch standover clearance. Both tell me the 56 is sized incorrectly for you.

As far as not liking your 54cm Allez, there are countless reasons for that, one being you probably have never been correctly fitted to it and are uncomfortable riding it. Point being, it doesn't mean the sizing is wrong.

It's really unnecessary to argue points here. It's your money and we both have our opinions, so do whatever you choose.


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## RTUNED87 (Aug 27, 2010)

To reiterate, you'd run about an 80mm stem and have less than an inch standover clearance. Both tell me the 56 is sized incorrectly for you.

I dont understand?

And I dont wana get on your bad side im just saying I wanted a 54 tarmac or sworks frameset but they dont have it in the style I want well at least over here!

So a 100mm stem on a 54cm bike thats really a 54.8 is that fine? But how does a person know the shortest and max stem that should be ran on a bike?


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## PJ352 (Dec 5, 2007)

RTUNED87 said:


> To reiterate, you'd run about an 80mm stem and have less than an inch standover clearance. Both tell me the 56 is sized incorrectly for you.
> 
> I dont understand?
> 
> ...


First off, don't fret over getting on my bad side. I don't lose sight of the fact that a forum's fundamental purpose is for exchanging thoughts/ ideas/ opinions/ experiences, and that's exactly what we're doing here. If I present things as I see them, whether you choose to take the advice (or not) is up to you. It's going to be your bike and your money, so I take no offense. 

That said, to answer your question...

Generally speaking, IMO/E the near ideal match of rider to bike geo is:
- reach requirements are met using a 100-120mm stem.
- drop (saddle to bar drop) is met using a fairly common angled stem and 20-40mm's of spacers.
- saddle height is attained without minimal or excessive post showing (as in, minimum insertion line isn't exposed).
- optimal KOPS setting is found and the saddle is clamped (more or less) centered on the rails.
- standover is _at least _1 inch from the riders crotch (with shoes). This is not to be confused with cycling inseam, which is measured without shoes and using the equivalent of saddle pressure against the crotch.

All of these generalities come together to say that the bike is properly sized for a rider and that f/r weight distribution will be correct. The more you stray from these, the less ideal fit will be. Do some riders run a 90mm stem and 17 degree (angled up) stem? Yes, but that IMO shows that they're not on a biked sized for optimal fit. And if your goal is comfort (thus, efficiency) then your goal should also be optimal fit.

Honestly, I understand your desire to find the best deal on a bike you lust after (we all do), but try to temper that with the fact that (stating the obvious) _you ride a bike_ and a good fit is going to go a long way in keeping you on that bike and interested in riding. Just because you rode a friends 56 doesn't mean you'd be happy with that bike long term, and the longer you ride an ill fitting bike, the more likely fit deficiencies will cause you pain. IMO/E a bike that fits like a glove is the real measure of a good value. 

HTH...


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