# Pioneer Power Meter System Review



## Srode (Aug 19, 2012)

*Pioneer Power Meter System Review​*A quick review of the Pioneer Power Meter system including the Power Meter installed on consumer’s crank and the SGX-CA500 computer. 

*Purchase* 
Pioneer installs the system on either Dura Ace 9000 or Ultegra 6800 cranks, nothing else and only 50/34 or larger ringsets. What you get is a box with instructions on how to pack your crank including nice protective foam padding / wraps for the crank and the arm. You can be pretty confident your crank will not get damaged in transit with their packing system unless the shipper is really rough with the package. I double boxed mine just to be sure. Also in the box is the system they will install, manuals, and you will need to set it up on the bike. 

I shipped it to Pioneer on a Friday via USPS priority for $30 insured, they received it the following Tuesday and I got it back the next Wednesday (9 days after they received it). It shipped from the West Coast via FedEx, signature required. Pioneer sent an email confirming they had received it the next day, and also when they had shipped it back with a tracking number. 

*Installation* 
The installation is pretty straight forward after installing the crank. There are magnets that have self-adhesive backing and a tool to locate them the correct distance from the center of the BB. You tape them on first and then make sure the system picks them up. After making sure they are in the right location remove the backing and permanently install them. There are also some zip-tie type magnets you can use instead. 

*Set Up *
Using the SGX-CA500 Pioneer Computer the setup is very easy because the computer communicates with the system to set the mode (ANT+ for head units like Garmin, dual or single sided, or the Pioneer computer), calibrating the magnets (the system needs to know where the magnets are relative to the crank rotation on flat ground), and then calibrating zero. Without the Pioneer computer all these settings are done with a push button under the DS cover plate, where a small LED light flashes to indicate what the system is set to do based on how long you held the button down (less than 2 seconds, more than 2, more than 5 etc). Start over using the push button is done by removing the batteries from both sides for a minute then reinstalling. 

I bought the computer a week after the power meter was sent in for installation so didn’t have it for the installation initially. I had problems understanding what to do from on the installation instructions on line and contacted Pioneer who sent me different instructions that made much more sense. These are for the updated firm ware (after July 1 2015) power meters. Fortunately the computer showed up the next day and I ended up using it for the installation. 

*The Data Analysis*
In my opinion, if you aren’t working on improving your pedal stroke this may not be the best system for most riders, (more on that later under dislikes). You can get left right balance and efficiency etc. from a Garmin computer and others over ANT+, but to get the advanced vector analysis you need to use the Pioneer computer (for now anyway) as that data is only transmitted over a signal they have designed for their system. I’ve only used this a couple times now, once for a short 30 mile ride, and once for a 100 miler, so limited experience. 

The rides were uploaded to the Pioneer Cyclo-sphere website which provides the capability for analysis as well as conversion to *.fit file format on export to upload to other software like Golden Cheetah. The website will also upload to Strava or Training Peaks automatically if you want and will adjust the power file plus or minus 10% if you want to correct a high or low bias vs another power meter. I think the Pioneer website is the only place you are going to get the more advanced analysis capability like Vector analysis of your pedal stroke, for now anyway. This is actually pretty interesting data, it shows the direction of the torque applied the crank at 12 different points in the stroke. The vector data is also used to identify periods where you are likely standing instead of seated while pedaling by the software. The file format from the pioneer computer is *.db which isn’t used anywhere else to my knowledge. 

The vector analysis of my 100 mile ride shows my stroke pretty much sucks, need quite a bit of work as it’s terribly inefficient – I’m a masher for the most part it seems and that’s wasting a lot of energy needlessly. The reason I bought this system was to help understand the issue with my pedal stroke which causes a significant left / right imbalance that I discovered comparing data files from my Stages to Power Tap hub on a trainer doing left leg single pedal and dual pedal comparisons. The difference under normal riding, like Z2/Z3 is about 40/60 left right. During the 100 mile ride, on the first half I just watched the balance periodically to see what was going on and found it wasn’t there in harder efforts or standing just the lower intensity, so for the second half I focused on getting the left leg more engaged during the lower efforts and was able to improve to 44/55 on average. It’s obviously going to take a while to get the muscle memory to do it naturally, but I think it will come. Pedal stroke efficiency for the ride was about 37% so I need to do some work with pedal drills of some sort on the trainer, along with perhaps some saddle position adjustments over the Winter. (Any suggestions on drills are welcome!)

*Power Meter Likes and Dislikes*

*What I like *– The system is light adding only 60 to 70 grams to your bike. The build quality looks to be very good. The left arm pod compared to Stages has a better battery cover and just looks like it’s built nicer. The price is reasonable compared to other true left / right data systems, actually probably lower and provide more in depth data than any other system out there today. Support from Pioneer when I had questions was very good and the turn-around time for the installation of the system on my crank was really limited only by shipping time (I purchased during the off season though). When used with their cycling computer and the Cyclo-Sphere web system it gives advanced data that can help understand areas to improve your pedal stroke. Using the Cyclo-Sphere web based system you can adjust torque or power to match another system. 

*What I don’t like *– The system is not intended for rough use, in fact the warranty is void if you use it on dirt road, rough roads like gravel or cobblestones or even racing. From the manual:

_“This product is designed to be used for recreational cycling and cycle training applications only and is not designed to withstand racing conditions. Additionally, this product is designed to be used while cycling on paved roads only. Any damage or malfunction arising from use in racing or riding on dirt roads, cobblestone or any other unpaved roads will not be covered by the manufacturer’s limited warranty”_

I didn’t know this when I ordered it, the system was intended to replace the stages on my gravel / inclimate weather / trainer bike. I called Pioneer to confirm this and was told it’s not due to contamination but instead the shock. Rough conditions like cobbles / off road may cause system failure. Interestingly, if your read some of the Pioneer web page information they say the system

_“was refined over a punishing season of rain, snow, cobbles, mud and thigh burning climbs of the world’s most prestigious grand tours” _







This is pretty misleading in my opinion based on the warranty exclusions. So regular pavement / on road use only is what this is designed for – it’s a training tool. If you want something more versatile there are other options that may work better. For me, I can swap cranks and use my Stages meter when I do off road / gravel rides which is inconvenient but manageable. I’ll just have to count on my training carrying over to the off road conditions instead of being able to see it in the data during the ride or after the fact for these scenarios. 

The system output lags on start up by 5 or so seconds like the Stages power meter does. My PT wheels output data instantly. 

The only other pick I have is the set up / calibration is more complicated than PT wheels, other crank , or pedal based systems. In exchange for the extra effort you get amazing data, but the really cool stuff comes ONLY with the Pioneer computer. It would have been nice if all that data was available on standard the standard ANT+ signal which would potentially allowed other computers in the future to also support the advanced vector analysis. 

*SGX-CA500 Pioneer Computer Likes and Dislikes*

*What I like* – The screen is easy to see in all conditions. The real time data it will display and record is amazing. On a trainer, the vector displays should help dialing in a pedal stroke. This computer with the most up to date firmware makes setting the Power meter up easier, and you can switch the PM remotely from output on the Pioneer transmission signal to a standard ANT+ to work with a Garmin or other systems (at the price of losing the vector analysis data). You can set up multiple screens with multiple read outs like most computers but what’s unique here is tapping on a read out takes that to full screen for easier viewing. The computer will auto load data to Cyclo-sphere over Wifi if you want to, or you can load it. The Li Ion rechargeable battery is consumer replaceable. 

*What I don’t like* – The data format is *.db so for it to have any value for analysis you have to use Cyclo-sphere (of course that’s the only place you can get the benefits of the advanced analysis). The touch screen set up is finicky – it reacts sometimes to scrolling and sometimes not. Sometimes when trying to scroll it will not move, other times it will select something on the screen instead of scrolling. This is more of a problem when setting up your options than moving between screens while riding though for some reason. The battery life is only ‘up to 12 hours’ which is less than my Garmin 510 or 500 but about in line with the 520, 1000, 810, and 800 I think. The GPS seems to be reasonably accurate looking ride maps . Close enough that Strava gave me credit for all the segments along the way. The GPS speed data on the other hand is terrible! I watched it bounce around from 12 to 15 mph regularly from one second to the next when I knew I was doing more like 17 or 18 mph. Reported average speed for the 100 miler ride was 15.7 mph vs 17.2 mph per Strava and it was set to not include zeros and auto pause which it did on que. Strava MPH was in line with the average speed from my Garmin 500 that was stuffed in a jersey pocket as a back-up and for comparison.

I'll update the review at some point in the future after I have more time using it.


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## Jay Strongbow (May 8, 2010)

Wow, what they told you about shock vs their advert you posted is pretty bad. It's not like paved roads are necessarily any less prone to shock than cobbles, gravel and off road either. Not in my part of the country anyway were you're bound to hit really bad stretches of pavement at high speed.


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## Srode (Aug 19, 2012)

Yeah, I was quite surprised at the exclusion and what they told me. The warranty exclusion around racing makes no sense to me either. Using for training and recreational riding for many of the peeps on this board would put just as much strain if not more than weekend racing over the period it's covered by warranty. Somebody loli-gagging around soft pedaling all the time isn't going to be a likely customer for a power meter.


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## Alaska Mike (Sep 28, 2008)

That's disappointing. I hadn't seen enough on them to form an opinion, but this is a non-starter for me.


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## Alex_Simmons/RST (Jan 12, 2008)

Srode said:


> The vector analysis of my 100 mile ride shows my stroke pretty much sucks, *need quite a bit of work as it’s terribly inefficient* – I’m a masher for the most part it seems and that’s wasting a lot of energy needlessly.


How do you know it's inefficient? The only way to measure efficiency is to measure the power output as a proportion of metabolic power demand. That requires a metabolic cart in a laboratory to measure.



Srode said:


> The reason I bought this system was to help understand the issue with my pedal stroke which causes a significant left / right imbalance that I discovered comparing data files from my Stages to Power Tap hub on a trainer doing left leg single pedal and dual pedal comparisons.


Single leg pedalling is not indicative of bilateral pedalling asymmetry.

As far as comparing Stages and Powertap data, there is quite a deal of error in that approach to assessing pedalling asymmetry.



Srode said:


> Pedal stroke efficiency for the ride was about 37% so I need to do some work with pedal drills of some sort on the trainer, along with perhaps some saddle position adjustments over the Winter. (Any suggestions on drills are welcome!)


How do you know this is a valid measure to "improve" or indeed what an improved value actually is?


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## aclinjury (Sep 12, 2011)

thanks for the review. Sounds too fragile and complicated for me to consider


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## pedalbiker (Nov 23, 2014)

Do they not sponsor Lotto-Soudal or someone? And UHC? 

I could have sworn they were sponsoring at least one pro tour team and/or teams that race protour races. Ie, races that go over cobbles and what not. 

Granted, they could be giving them a new one every race, but what on earth? Weird.


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## Srode (Aug 19, 2012)

Alex_Simmons/RST said:


> How do you know it's inefficient? The only way to measure efficiency is to measure the power output as a proportion of metabolic power demand. That requires a metabolic cart in a laboratory to measure.
> 
> 
> Single leg pedalling is not indicative of bilateral pedalling asymmetry.
> ...


Yes, the system doesn’t measure metabolic efficiency it uses the sensors to show mechanical efficiency based on force vector analysis. I would assume even if it’s not a 1:1 correlation, there is some reasonably relevant relationship between the two. It’s done by measuring force and direction at 12 points in the pedal rotation. To increase the mechanical efficiency, the radial force needs to be minimized and the tangential component in the direction of rotation maximized. I’ve tried my normal pedal stroke, vs consciously turning ‘small circles’ with my feet, vs single pedal drill and changed the efficiency from upper 30’s to lower 50’s to mid 70’s respectively. Looking at the force diagrams from the cyclo-sphere page it’s fairly obvious where those differences are showing up and where there is still an opportunity. I have no idea what a ‘good’ number for efficiency is, but I’m pretty sure 37%. Don’t know if improved efficiency will have any impact on effort power output but I have to think it can contribute to improved endurance over long rides if I can build the supporting muscles and muscle memory change my natural pedal stroke without having to think about it. 

Here’s some examples of the data analysis you can get from Cyclo-sphere from the system – it’s pretty interesting to me. 

This one is a single leg pedal snap shot








This one is me trying to spin in 'small circles'








And this is Z2 average around 170 watts








The color and size of each vector shows force, the direction is obviously the direction. Blue means the force is opposite the rotation of the crank, gray means it’s exactly radial, now help no hurt to rotation. In the online analysis it can use the data to identify where you are standing if you want (all the vectors are straight down really) The question is can I take advantage of it by targeting training efforts for improvement. 

For the left right balance assessment before purchasing the Pioneer system I used a stages PM on a bike with a PT hub on a trainer and compared my single leg output to my dual leg output. The single leg output using stages was pretty much exactly 2x the reported PT hub output (within 2%) which is what you would expect since the stages assumes balance and doubles the single leg output. (conclusion, these PMs are reading about the same power). When I clipped in both legs and rode around Z2 output not looking at the power meter outputs until lap reset, the power from the stages was about 40% of the PT hub. That confirmed what I saw on my rides, the NP and average power output on similar rides at similar pace was significantly lower with my bike that I normally have the stages on vs bike that normally has the PT hub. With the Pioneer left/right comparison, those results were confirmed. 

Interestingly (to me anyway), hard efforts they the left/right balance gets pretty close to 50:50, it’s the easier efforts like Z2 where the discrepancy really shows. So it’s not that the left leg can’t put out higher power. I have done some fit adjustments this year to make up for the left leg being shorter by 3mm(moved cleat forward and shimmed it). That difference in length might have contributed to training in this balance problem I guess, wish I had done that a few years ago!


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## ncr (Apr 13, 2014)

AL


Srode said:


> Yes, the system doesn’t measure metabolic efficiency it uses the sensors to show mechanical efficiency based on force vector analysis. I would assume even if it’s not a 1:1 correlation, there is some reasonably relevant relationship between the two. It’s done by measuring force and direction at 12 points in the pedal rotation. To increase the mechanical efficiency, the radial force needs to be minimized and the tangential component in the direction of rotation maximized. I’ve tried my normal pedal stroke, vs consciously turning ‘small circles’ with my feet, vs single pedal drill and changed the efficiency from upper 30’s to lower 50’s to mid 70’s respectively. Looking at the force diagrams from the cyclo-sphere page it’s fairly obvious where those differences are showing up and where there is still an opportunity. I have no idea what a ‘good’ number for efficiency is, but I’m pretty sure 37%. Don’t know if improved efficiency will have any impact on effort power output but I have to think it can contribute to improved endurance over long rides if I can build the supporting muscles and muscle memory change my natural pedal stroke without having to think about it.
> 
> Here’s some examples of the data analysis you can get from Cyclo-sphere from the system – it’s pretty interesting to me.
> 
> ...


All that downward force at 5 and 6 o'c has to be reducing your efficiency values.


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## Alex_Simmons/RST (Jan 12, 2008)

Srode said:


> Yes, the system doesn’t measure metabolic efficiency it uses the sensors to show mechanical efficiency based on force vector analysis. *I would assume even if it’s not a 1:1 correlation, there is some reasonably relevant relationship between the two. *


I suggest doing some research and reading some published scientific papers that have examined cycling efficiency and pedal force relationships. I suspect you will probably be surprised.


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## Srode (Aug 19, 2012)

Thanks for the suggestion - found and read a few articles, looks like the consensus is you don't want to focus purely on mechanical efficiency although there are some aspects that apply. Definitely supports your point to not focus on the efficiency metric, it would probably lead someone down the wrong path - a higher number is not necessarily better. More important is to understand what is going on during the pedal stroke from the data to help evaluate muscle group engagement at the right places in the rotation. 

For me it appears I should work on left/right balance and understanding the differences in the stroke between the legs can help that I think. Looks like the biggest difference between the 2 is how much I'm pulling back towards the bottom of the stroke, probably hamstring / glute engagement not as effective on the left side. Saddle position might be a contributor too.


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## Srode (Aug 19, 2012)

ncr said:


> AL
> 
> All that downward force at 5 and 6 o'c has to be reducing your efficiency values.


yep, I'm thinking that's wasted energy. Also think the difference between left and right balance is somewhat at the bottom of the stroke, how much I'm pulling back. Also of course how much I'm un-weighting the left side on the upstroke.


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## ncr (Apr 13, 2014)

Srode said:


> yep, I'm thinking that's wasted energy. Also think the difference between left and right balance is somewhat at the bottom of the stroke, how much I'm pulling back.
> 
> 
> Not all wasted energy, some of it is due to gravity.


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## ncr (Apr 13, 2014)

Srode said:


> Thanks for the suggestion
> 
> All this research is flawed, these researchers have been unaware of the fact that the same maximal torque can be applied at 12,1 and 2 as that applied around 3 o'c. All their research was based on variations of the same natural style, all these styles had the dead spot sector and gave almost the same sinusoidal graph.


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## Alex_Simmons/RST (Jan 12, 2008)

ncr said:


> Srode said:
> 
> 
> > Thanks for the suggestion
> ...


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## ncr (Apr 13, 2014)

Alex_Simmons/RST said:


> ncr said:
> 
> 
> > Nice try Noel. Discredit research that doesn't fit your narrative. Science doesn't work that way round I'm afraid.
> ...


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## Alex_Simmons/RST (Jan 12, 2008)

ncr said:


> How many of these researchers have searched for a completely different way of powering the pedals by concentrating on using the muscles instead of new equipment to eliminate the dead spot sector?
> Unlike equipment there is no financial gain from a new technique.


If you'd read the research you'd have the answer. It's more than none BTW. Indeed quite a few have investigated changes in pedalling "style".

But don't obfuscate.

How much data have you got from research that backs your tired claims?
That's easy. None.


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## Alex_Simmons/RST (Jan 12, 2008)

ncr said:


> Unlike equipment there is no financial gain from a new technique.


Nothing like throwing out an oversized red herring.


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## goodboyr (Apr 19, 2006)

Hahaha.....looks like since the wattage group is shut down for the weekend, this has taken over the drama.......


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## Srode (Aug 19, 2012)

pedalbiker said:


> Do they not sponsor Lotto-Soudal or someone? And UHC?


I believe they are working with UHC and Belkin with the latter being a partner in the development of the total system.


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## Alex_Simmons/RST (Jan 12, 2008)

goodboyr said:


> Hahaha.....looks like since the wattage group is shut down for the weekend, this has taken over the drama.......


Noel has been running this line for decades and it's a bit of light comic relief.


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## goodboyr (Apr 19, 2006)

True. I know. Just funny about wattage and this as carryover.


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## ncr (Apr 13, 2014)

Alex_Simmons/RST said:


> Noel has been running this line for decades and it's a bit of light comic relief.


He who laughs last laughs best.


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## aclinjury (Sep 12, 2011)

Srode said:


> Yeah, I was quite surprised at the exclusion and what they told me. The warranty exclusion around racing makes no sense to me either. Using for training and recreational riding for many of the peeps on this board would put just as much strain if not more than weekend racing over the period it's covered by warranty. Somebody loli-gagging around soft pedaling all the time isn't going to be a likely customer for a power meter.



Got a chance to speak with a Pioneer rep from the Long Beach office (where they install the powermeter to customers' own crank) about this warranty issue. And he said they DO NOT exclude racing from normal use.


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## Srode (Aug 19, 2012)

aclinjury said:


> Got a chance to speak with a Pioneer rep from the Long Beach office (where they install the powermeter to customers' own crank) about this warranty issue. And he said they DO NOT exclude racing from normal use.


Interesting, did he have any comment on the other parts of the exclusions? Curious how much they are CYA vs real risk of failure. They should update their user's manual and other documentation if racing isn't excluded from coverage, see page 4 of the user manual http://pioneer-cyclesports.com/us-en/support/products/manual/SGY-PM900H90_EU_Users_Manual_press.pdf


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## aclinjury (Sep 12, 2011)

Srode said:


> Interesting, did he have any comment on the other parts of the exclusions? Curious how much they are CYA vs real risk of failure. They should update their user's manual and other documentation if racing isn't excluded from coverage, see page 4 of the user manual http://pioneer-cyclesports.com/us-en/support/products/manual/SGY-PM900H90_EU_Users_Manual_press.pdf


this could be a case of the lawyers writing the warranty docs, while the techs and field reps think otherwise. The rep told me something like "we sponsors UHC, Giant, Rabobank womens. Our equipment is tested in racing conditions, and we expect users to race with them."

so that's that. Honestly the powermeter market is now pretty competitive. If you exclude racing, you're a dead horse.


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## Srode (Aug 19, 2012)

aclinjury said:


> this could be a case of the lawyers writing the warranty docs, while the techs and field reps think otherwise. The rep told me something like "we sponsors UHC, Giant, Rabobank womens. Our equipment is tested in racing conditions, and we expect users to race with them."
> 
> so that's that. Honestly the powermeter market is now pretty competitive. If you exclude racing, you're a dead horse.


Agreed, its probably boiler plate warranty speak - I can't imagine being able to sell any volume of PMs with the limited intended application their warranty implies. The ultimate test of course will be how they respond to any warranty requests that come up, time will tell. It's a pretty impressive system otherwise, very happy with the level of analysis it brings.


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## aclinjury (Sep 12, 2011)

Srode said:


> Agreed, its probably boiler plate warranty speak - I can't imagine being able to sell any volume of PMs with the limited intended application their warranty implies. The ultimate test of course will be how they respond to any warranty requests that come up, time will tell. It's a pretty impressive system otherwise, very happy with the level of analysis it brings.


let's say the powermeter suddenly malfunctions in a race. Now you call support for warranty. How in the world would the tech be able to determine if you were racing or training? 

Furthermore, if one wants to really get technical, what is defined as "racing"? The warranty doc didn't define what racing is. Lots of way to skin a cat eh.

anyway, the rep I spoke with works out of the Long Beach office, where they do warranty works and install pm to customers' cranks, told me emphatically they don't exclude racing. Even gave me a funny look when asked him if racing was excluded from warranty (in light of his pride that the Pioneer system has been tested on many pro race teams to test under all sort of conditions including racing).


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## Quarker (Feb 21, 2013)

I cant wait to get my Pioneer Power Meter. I ordered it last week so hoping soon the wait will be over.
Ordered it here in november so I will get the free headunit


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## Srode (Aug 19, 2012)

Quarker said:


> I cant wait to get my Pioneer Power Meter. I ordered it last week so hoping soon the wait will be over.
> Ordered it here in november so I will get the free headunit


The free head unit makes it attractive, I ended up saving quite a bit upgrading an existing crank and buying a used pioneer computer at half price. There's some pretty heavy discounting going on - Western Bikeworks has the DuraAce crank system for less than the Ultegra right now, with the free computer for $1297 (might just be if you are a leaders club member). Over time, they will keep dropping in price I'm pretty sure. 

So far, I'm still very impressed with the data, and have done some fit adjustments as well as started some deliberate trainer work to get my left/right balance discrepancy reduced. Have a gravel ride today so swapped cranks to use the Stages PM today, only takes 5 minutes to do that so not a biggie.


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## Quarker (Feb 21, 2013)

Is there any forums where people talk about the Pioneer Power Meter ?
I dont see many people talking about it and would love to hear from other people. (Something to do while waiting)


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## Quarker (Feb 21, 2013)

Just a quick question.
Does the Pioneer Power Meter generete ANT+ cadence or do I need a cadence sensor ?


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## dcb (Jul 21, 2008)

You do not need a cadence sensor when using the Pioneer pm.


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## Alex_Simmons/RST (Jan 12, 2008)

aclinjury said:


> anyway, the rep I spoke with works out of the Long Beach office, where they do warranty works and install pm to customers' cranks, told me emphatically they don't exclude racing. Even gave me a funny look when asked him if racing was excluded from warranty (in light of his pride that the Pioneer system has been tested on many pro race teams to test under all sort of conditions including racing).


What did the rep say when they read the warranty?

If they are so adamant, then it should not be stated in the warranty. You might have a good rep, but I'm afraid that may not be the case worldwide.


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## woodys737 (Dec 31, 2005)

I went to a local shop that had Pioneer come and rep their products recently. The left right and stroke efficiency was a major highlight but, no data on the relationship of mechanical efficiency (all the vector stuff Pioneer markets) to metabolic efficiency. As a long time user of power it's easy to change my stroke by feel to even out the power but, for me HR always went up. This was years ago but I read up on it and basically (to the best of my knowledge) what I was experiencing was extensor muscles are metabolically more efficient than flexor muscles. So, (in theory at least for me) I was actually becoming less efficient from a metabolic stand point but more efficient from a mechanical stand point when I focused on scraping, or circle type pedaling. I've long since given up on most of "technique" other than trying to be smooth. If I want more power I push harder.

What I don't know is if long term training to be mechanically efficient will lead to being more metabolically efficient? More than a baseline at least. I have no idea but, suspect any increase in metabolic efficiency would be limited to a relatively short time period. I can only speculate having no degree or experience in exercise physiology.

What kept going through my mind was "wow this is a lot of data but, WTF do I do with it to really affect positive change". How would I change my training and how would I know what I was changing was the reason I might see different power for example.


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## TJay74 (Sep 9, 2012)

I finally pulled the trigger on a Pioneer PM. Shop ordered it and I had it 4 days later. Went home to install it on the bike, had some issues so I called Pioneer who placed the blame on my Garmin 520. Then called Garmin who said it is the Pioneer PM due to the 3 different signals it can broadcast.

Then call Pioneer and got someone (after being disconnected 2 times) who actually cared. He helped get the PM into the dual power mode (instructions in the manual would not work as described) and I was on my way. Mounted the bike onto the trainer, calibrated the PM and started to pedal. I was in the big ring and the granny in the rear just spinning and I am rewarded with 250w of power, I was like wow. Drop into my 23t gear and start pedaling at 90rpm and I see 1500w and then I knew something was up. Both my 520 and Zwift were showing large wattage output. I hammered it for a second and saw over 3000w on both screens. Spent the next 2 hours jacking with it, end result was the brand new PM was DOA from Pioneer.

Dealt with them all day yesterday, they wanted me to pay to send the PM in, after getting the shop and a Pioneer mgr involved they agreed to overnight one to the shop and would have the shop send mine back in.

Hopefully I will find out today how it works provided the new PM works correctly out of the box.


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## Srode (Aug 19, 2012)

Using the switches under the cover are a pain to change power modes, with their computer it's a snap when the PM is working right. 

I've found it helpful understanding how to improve my L/R balance and am making progress on it. I'm less interested in efficiency overall but it's interesting to watch. Still not sure how to think about efficiency vs torque effectiveness though.


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