# SuperSix Carbon fork question



## scubad (Jun 22, 2004)

All,

I just purchased and received a SuperSix 1. Great bike. I've only been able to get out for a few rides due to illness and the weather.

So, I've been stuck to the trainer a bit. One thing I've noticed is that the fork has quite a bit of flex from side to side compared to my old Trek 5200. 

I attribute this to the carbon steerer. Since I've not ridden too much outside I'm not sure if this changes the ride characteristics too much. I know the front end is compliant and smooth. I felt that it cornered quite well.

My question is, Is this normal? How does a carbon steerer affect responsiveness in cornering and sprinting?

Thanks.

Scubad


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## peterpen (May 5, 2004)

I wouldn't attribute it to the carbon steerer. Both my giant Advanced fork and my Look HSC5 are miles stiffer than my Colnago fork w/steel steerer.

I'd caution against making any judgments about stiffness due to your perceptions while riding a trainer - quite often people's perceptions are reflecting the fact the bike's rear dropouts are fixed while they are moving about. Are the bars and stem the same as those on your 5200? This can influence perceived movement. FWIW, static tests done by Tour Magazin show both the Supersix frame and fork to be significantly stiffer than the Madone, which Trek claimed was in turn stiffer than the 5200.


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## scubad (Jun 22, 2004)

I agree that I need to wait until I get it out on the road more.

The bars are the same. FSA K-Wings. The stem went from a Bontrager XXX Lite to the Control Tech. 

I believe what I'm experiencing is the fork twisting/flexing. Since the Supersix is definitely stiffer in the frame than the Trek. I just could be seeing that effect on the front end. 

It might be that once out on the road I will not feel the issue and it's more of a benefit. I know from the long test rides I did, it cornered on rails. I'm not too terribly concerned.

Do you know who makes the Supersix fork?

ScubaD


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## peterpen (May 5, 2004)

If it's the Control Tech Scandium, I'd definitely think that is possibly influencing what you're observing. I doubt the Scandium is as stiff as the ~40g heavier Bontrager stem, which is reputed to be quite stiff.

I believe Cdale makes their own forks.

Just to be clear, I'm not saying that you might not be seeing/feeling some flex in the steerer - that's a definite possibility and certain stems (not to mention spacer stack heights) can influence this. Just sayin' there might be other factors at play - and I definitely wouldn't make any assumptions about handling based on trainer time.


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## Mr. Scary (Dec 7, 2005)

scubad said:


> I agree that I need to wait until I get it out on the road more.
> 
> The bars are the same. FSA K-Wings. The stem went from a Bontrager XXX Lite to the Control Tech.
> 
> ...


The head tube is much stiffer on the Super Six due to the size and loads will be transferred differently than the Trek. Trek sucks anyways, enjoy the Super Six and forget that you ever owned one of those over hyped pieces of junk.


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## peterpen (May 5, 2004)

Mr. Scary said:


> The head tube is much stiffer on the Super Six due to the size and loads will be transferred differently than the Trek. Trek sucks anyways, enjoy the Super Six and forget that you ever owned one of those over hyped pieces of junk.


 

Perhaps the only thing as annoying as people who assume that Treks are the best because Lance rode them are people who assume Treks suck because lots of of Freds ride them.


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## stwok (Mar 15, 2007)

scubad said:


> All,
> 
> So, I've been stuck to the trainer a bit. One thing I've noticed is that the fork has quite a bit of flex from side to side compared to my old Trek 5200.
> 
> ...


Had a similar experience a few years ago, my front wheel bearings needed adjusting.

Also, the Super Six appears to be weight sensitive. I test rode one this past summer along with a System Six and my Six 13. I weigh 230 lbs. and found the SystemSix to be a better ride/cornering bike when compared to the Super.


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## Mr. Scary (Dec 7, 2005)

peterpen said:


> Perhaps the only thing as annoying as people who assume that Treks are the best because Lance rode them are people who assume Treks suck because lots of of Freds ride them.


Nice assumption peter pan but that has little to do with my opinion (although I do get tired of seeing them around). The 5200 that the OP had prior was significantly behind the times with regards to carbon construction. The new Madone is a nice bike if you can get past all of the Bontrager crap. The older ones (lugged models which were just replaced for 2008) were eclipsed by a number of brands with regards to weight, manufacturing methodology, stiffness, etc. But thanks for assuming that you know everything that I express... :blush2:


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## zosocane (Aug 29, 2004)

I have put about 12,000 miles on my Six13 and about 1,100 miles on my new SuperSix. The SuperSix fork (and the frame, for that matter) are stiffer than the Six13's fork/frame. SuperSix is a better sprinter than the Six13.


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## peterpen (May 5, 2004)

Mr. Scary said:


> Nice assumption peter pan but that has little to do with my opinion (although I do get tired of seeing them around). The 5200 that the OP had prior was significantly behind the times with regards to carbon construction. The new Madone is a nice bike if you can get past all of the Bontrager crap. The older ones (lugged models which were just replaced for 2008) were eclipsed by a number of brands with regards to weight, manufacturing methodology, stiffness, etc. But thanks for assuming that you know everything that I express... :blush2:


Well, perhaps you should look at how your post reads. Saying a brand "sucks" and that a bike is a "piece of junk" certainly doesn't come across as well-informed (never mind helpful in re: the OP's questions.) While the 5200 may not have had the latest, most marketable form of carbon construction, like Colnago their outdated manufacturing methods never prevented many racers from winning on them nor did I hear anybody who actually rode one complain much.

Anyway... sorry to take this off-topic. :blush2:


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## Mr. Scary (Dec 7, 2005)

peterpen said:


> Well, perhaps you should look at how your post reads. Saying a brand "sucks" and that a bike is a "piece of junk" certainly doesn't come across as well-informed (never mind helpful in re: the OP's questions.) While the 5200 may not have had the latest, most marketable form of carbon construction, like Colnago their outdated manufacturing methods never prevented many racers from winning on them nor did I hear anybody who actually rode one complain much.
> 
> Anyway... sorry to take this off-topic. :blush2:




Colnago, Parlee, Calfee, etc still used lugged construction because they want the option to offer custom sizing. Protoype molds for tube to tube construction (like what Specialized had to do to fit Boonen) aren't readily available to the general public so with a big brand you have to accomodate their "off the rack" sizing. Trek still offering lugged construction in 2007 was behind the times (for a big bike maker). Obviously somebody was complaining because Trek attempted various band aids to boost their stifness (OCLV 55, boron in the bb shell, etc).


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## MaestroXC (Sep 15, 2005)

The OCLV 55 composition and boron reinforcement of the bottom bracket (as well as later-generation top-tubes on Six13s, while we're in the Cannondale forum,) were to maintain the stiffness of more basic models while losing weight. The OCLVs are actually quite stiff.


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## Mr. Scary (Dec 7, 2005)

MaestroXC said:


> The OCLV 55 composition and boron reinforcement of the bottom bracket (as well as later-generation top-tubes on Six13s, while we're in the Cannondale forum,) were to maintain the stiffness of more basic models while losing weight. The OCLVs are actually quite stiff.


Not exactly, OCLV 55 is stiffer than 120 or 110. They could remove more material to reduce frame weight while still producing the same strength numbers as before. The boron was to help with bb twist. The frames are not as stiff as Scott, Cervelo, Canyon, or Cannondale for that matter. They were behind the times...


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## scubad (Jun 22, 2004)

FWIW, I have really enjoyed my Trek 5200. Was it the best bike for me? Possibly, it got me back into a sport that I love with a almost 18 year absence. After riding the bike for over 15,000 miles, I have come to know it's limitations. After a fair bit of research and test riding the Supersix became my next mistress. 

I will be the first to admit my lack of knowledge of bike dynamics and how does the what type of component and the material it is made out of affects handling. I'm hopeful that over time and with experience, I will know exactly what I want out of my bikes and what characteristics they should have.

I posted this question because of one difference between the Supersix and the 5200 that I could not explain away nor can I get on the road to confirm. At least while trying to keep a job. I guess on the next good day, I need to take a vacation day. 

By my perception on rollers, road(limited) and a trainer, the Supersix is by far stiffer in the frame than the 5200. Hands down. 

So, the bottom line that I have is what are the handling differences between a carbon and a aluminum steerer? But it can't be just a simple question as that since you need to consider the fork itself, rake and the overall handling aspects of the bike.

Sheesh, maybe I should just go ride my bike. I still need to give it a name.

Thanks for the input. RBR is great.

ScubaD


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## CFBlue (Jun 28, 1999)

I named my SuperSix Sasha; all bikes and cars/trucks/suvs need to be named!


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## robertburns3 (Jan 11, 2007)

I have noticed that sometimes what I perceive as frame flex is often wheel flex. This would be especialy apparent in a trainer. The System 6 and Super 6 have the same basic front end. My System 6 has a rock-solid, stiff front end.

I also have an older Cannondale with a Look fork. The Look fork has more flex than the System forks.


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