# New bike for gravel?



## JulieW (Apr 1, 2014)

Hi, I read alot here but this is my first post.

I started biking somewhat regularly last year. I thought I wanted a road bike and I ended up with a Giant Avail Composite 1 that I like alot. This winter I bought a fat bike which I also like. But now I find that my favorite place to ride is out in the country on dirt/gravel roads and I am riding my fat bike. I have just committed to a century on the road at the end of June and have a lot of miles to get in to get ready as the most I've ridden in a day in the last 30 years is 35. My problem is that I really don't like riding on the "road" as I feel I'm going to get hit by a car. I ride alone 95% of the time. Last year I did most of my road riding at 4:30am before work when there was no traffic. The country is great as I barely see a car. I have not taken my Giant out into the country because of its 700x23 tires. I have read other things here that say I shouldn't train for my century on a flat bar bike, which I guess I agree on. *My question is what is the mimimum size tire I can go out and ride comfortably and safely on gravel?
*I'm not sure how much bigger tires I can put on my Giant. It came with Giant P-SL1 Wheel system, a full-composite overdrive steerer fork and shimano 105 brakes. I really wish I had bought a CX bike which I considered at the time. I just didn't realize how much I prefer riding in the country. I am considering adding a CX bike, especially if people think I shouldn't be riding my Giant for miles on gravel. 

If I stick with my Giant or get a cross bike is there any reason I couldn't train predominantly on gravel for a road century? It would probably make the road miles seem easy.

Thanks for any insight.
Julie


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## Terex (Jan 3, 2005)

You'll get about a million guys telling you that your 700x23's are just fine on gravel and they use theirs without any problem. Riding early mornings, on sketchy surfaces indicates to me that you're going to want that cross bike with at least 32's. I've got Continental City Rides in 32 on my CX bike. Smooth enough to roll pretty well and robust enough to get through crap roads with minimal drama. But check to see how big a tire you can put on your Giant. I've been able to get 28's (Gator Hardshells) on my Scott Addict (barely) and they seem to do the trick on variable surfaces.


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## Camilo (Jun 23, 2007)

I agree with Terex - a great bike to consider is a cross bike with 32mm tires. I have one and it's great on gravel, and actually very good on smooth surfaces (I use it for commuting from the gravel roads I live on, into the city). I've used 28's but they're not nearly as comfortable and "sure" feeling on gravel and poor pavement as 32's. And 32's roll very nicely on pavement too. 

Remember - smooth tires are just fine for gravel. Unless the tire can actually bite into the surface (like mud or snow), aggressive tread doesn't really do any good. Most cross bikes come with heavy-ish, treaded tires that add nothing but noise, rough ride and weight to your bike if they're not actually needed. There's a lot of good quality smooth treaded 700cX32 tires out there.

Three things to consider: look closely at the gearing on your road bike and what the gearing will be on the cross bikes you're looking at. Many (now most) cross bikes are set up fairly specifically for that purpose and sometimes the gearing is all-around too low for efficient road riding for some people. Might not be for you, but make a note of the highest and lowest gears you use or could get by with on your current road bike and make sure the cross bike has an adequate range.

Second: as you're looking at the cross bike make sure you can very closely duplicate the position you have on your current road bike. The main dimensions you need to duplicate are saddle height (should be no problem), saddle set back (vis a vis the pedals), reach to whatever part of the handlebars you generally use (i.e. hoods), and saddle-bar drop. Again, this shouldn't be a big problem, but just make sure it can be done with fairly "normal" seat posts and handlebar stems.

Finally, don't be at all hesitant to immediately change out the new bike's handlebars and saddle for the ones you like on your road bike. 

I have three road bikes (one being the cross/commuter/gravel bike) and they all have the same saddle, and all have very similar handlebars as well (two identical, the third very similar). The three bikes are within a 1/4 inch in all dimensions of fitting exactly the same.


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## NJBiker72 (Jul 9, 2011)

I have ridden 23's on gravel and they are ok. I mainly ride 28's which may fit on your Avail for my gravel rides. But I think the consensus seems to be 25's which I will probably switch to when my 23's where out.


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## redroab (Feb 13, 2014)

I've ridden on 23's in gravel and dirt, and they were okay, to the extent that it was indeed possible, but by no means fast, comfortable, or recommended.


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## bradkay (Nov 5, 2013)

You can ride anything anywhere, but the problem with riding 23mm and 25mm tires in gravel is that you don't have a lot of cushion for when you hit a bigger rock - you are more likely to get a ding in your rim than you are with a 32-35mm tire. So if you want to ride on gravel at a higher speed, you want a larger tire.


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## tednugent (Apr 26, 2010)

you can never buy too many bikes.

unless the limit is divorce

Get a cross bike. When it comes road century, put on skinny road tires

but... for hard pack paths, yeah, you can survive with road tires, until you hit a nice rut...

or a deep pit of loose gravel... then you can sink in.


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## Roland44 (Mar 21, 2013)

tednugent said:


> you can never buy too many bikes.
> 
> unless the limit is divorce
> 
> ...


"Unless the limit is divorce" lol you really cracked me up with this. Good advice though


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## JulieW (Apr 1, 2014)

tednugent said:


> you can never buy too many bikes.
> 
> unless the limit is divorce
> 
> ...


Hahaha,
it will take quite a few bikes to add up to my husbands corvette that is taking up all the extra storage space in the garage. I don't recall him asking my permission for that.
He will be out of town next week. Maybe he won't even notice an extra bike when he gets back. 

Thanks everyone for all the useful information. I'll see what is available in my local shops.


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## bradkay (Nov 5, 2013)

Just don't lean your bike against that Corvette!


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## headloss (Mar 3, 2013)

Depends on the gravel... I know a lot of people who refuse to ride gravel paths with a 23mm tire. I personally wouldn't go below 28's. That is for relatively finely crushed gravel like crushed limestone (such as the Great Allegheny Passage, most of the rail trails I've been on, most of the commuter trails in the Illinois suburbs, etc.). When I took my bike with 28's on the C&O tow path, I wish I had 32's or larger. If I was riding on fire roads or single track, I'd want something close to 40 (minimum) for stability.

Climate plays a role too... you can get away with narrower tires in dry conditions but will want something wider after a rain storm.


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## Jay Strongbow (May 8, 2010)

No idea. No one of use know what the 'gravel' is actually like or your body weight so it's impossible to really say.


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## J.R. (Sep 14, 2009)

I ride fire roads in central PA. On some sections a road bike with 25mm is fine but unless I'm looking for speed I will use the Vaya with 40mm Clement X'Plor. Much greater comfort and control and when the fire road turns into double track or even most single track I can keep right on rolling.


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## n2deep (Mar 23, 2014)

Last fall I rode the GAP (Pittsburgh to Cumberland-150 Miles) on 700-32's, Ritchie something with a light/bairly visable tread and they worked fine, most of the road is compacted sand/gravel.. My original plan was to use the 28 gators which work great when dry but not the best for wet as they have a tendency to sink into the road..

I love the new bike idea,, you know what they say "old enough to know better but too young to resist"


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## headloss (Mar 3, 2013)

J.R. said:


> I ride fire roads in central PA. On some sections a road bike with 25mm is fine but unless I'm looking for speed I will use the Vaya with 40mm Clement X'Plor. Much greater comfort and control and when the fire road turns into double track or even most single track I can keep right on rolling.


Just goes to show how preferences diverge... there's no way I'd ride a 25mm on any of the fire/mining roads around Chestnut Ridge, the Laurel Highlands, etc. One good example is a strip mine road (and game land) near Gallitzin that leads to an overlook of the Horseshoe curve and the Altoona reservoir. I'd rather be on a mountain bike to take the road I have in mind, due to the many rocks that are larger than golf balls.

Granted, there are other roads that I would ride with 25's. Where are you riding at? Thanks for the tip on the Clement's, I might try those out.


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## seacoaster (May 9, 2010)

Jay Strongbow said:


> No idea. No one of use know what the 'gravel' is actually like or your body weight so it's impossible to really say.


Hasn't anyone ever told you to never ask a woman how much she weighs?


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## den bakker (Nov 13, 2004)

seacoaster said:


> Hasn't anyone ever told you to never ask a woman how much she weighs?


better than to tell her which size to use


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## den bakker (Nov 13, 2004)

it really depends on the gravel, the rider, how worried you'd be to slide a bit, is it wet etc. to give a good answer. 
some ride 23mm tyres where other refuse to take anything but a mountain bike. not saying either is right or wrong.


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## n2deep (Mar 23, 2014)

I'm a moron,, I re-read your post and wish to ammend my first thoughtless response. 

Why not pick two,, a cross and MTB,,Then no matter the terrain you have the bases covered.. A Surly Cross Check for the dirt/small gravel and a Nice 29er for the real rocks.. Currently I only have tow of the three bases covered, road and cross,, let us know whitch MTB you choose..


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## JulieW (Apr 1, 2014)

Jay Strongbow said:


> No idea. No one of use know what the 'gravel' is actually like or your body weight so it's impossible to really say.


5'8" 150 lb and age 49 for what it is worth.
I live in Iowa so the gravel is quite variable. Some of it is an inch or more chunks that can be quite loose. I like to explore, so I never know what the road might turn into. I think I would not feel comfortable on my 23s. I ride crushed limestone without any problems.

I'm somewhat paranoid of flats on the gravel. Is this a problem? Should you run higher pressures to avoid pinches? I've been riding 90-100.


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## JulieW (Apr 1, 2014)

bradkay said:


> Just don't lean your bike against that Corvette!


Yes, this WOULD cause a problem.


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## tednugent (Apr 26, 2010)

My cross bike is tubeless... So flats are a lesser concern


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## Terex (Jan 3, 2005)

I agree with Camilo agreeing with me and….where was I…Oh! His point about gearing - good point. I ride my CX bike above 7000 ft., I'm in crap shape, so I'm good with the CX gears going up hill. Downhill, not so much. You may want some taller gears in Iowa than normally come on CX bikes.

Good point on fit too. I normally ride a 56 and decided to go to a 54 on the CX bike in case I ever ride in a CX race. Not gonna happen, and the bike is just a little too small for me. Whatever you buy, get fitted properly for road riding on your new bike. (We all assume that you're going to get a new bike, so don't disappoint us!)

And I'd get a CX bike with disc brakes too, just because I love disc brakes. I vote for tednugent's tubeless solution too.


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## J.R. (Sep 14, 2009)

headloss said:


> Just goes to show how preferences diverge... there's no way I'd ride a 25mm on any of the fire/mining roads around Chestnut Ridge, the Laurel Highlands, etc. One good example is a strip mine road (and game land) near Gallitzin that leads to an overlook of the Horseshoe curve and the Altoona reservoir. I'd rather be on a mountain bike to take the road I have in mind, due to the many rocks that are larger than golf balls.
> 
> Granted, there are other roads that I would ride with 25's. Where are you riding at? Thanks for the tip on the Clement's, I might try those out.


Bald Eagle State Forest. I've always enjoyed a nice "adventure" ride but never had a bike that could venture off-road much until I bought the Vaya last fall. 

Here's a map of a ride home from Dubois (no gravel or dirt) I did last summer that was great fun.

The picture is from a ride two years ago where I was out on my road bike and ending up on a gravel "short cut"


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## J.R. (Sep 14, 2009)

Okay, the picture didn't show up on my first attempt. I'll try again.


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## Camilo (Jun 23, 2007)

Terex said:


> ...Good point on fit too. I normally ride a 56 and decided to go to a 54 on the CX bike in case I ever ride in a CX race. Not gonna happen, and the bike is just a little too small for me. Whatever you buy, get fitted properly for road riding on your new bike. (We all assume that you're going to get a new bike, so don't disappoint us!)....


Just to riff on Cross Bike Fit vs. Road Bike Fit. Like Terex said, people often choose a cross bike that is "one size" smaller than their road bike. When I was obsessing over cross bike frames a couple of years ago, I found that this was often (usually) pretty much based on standover, the point being that very often one of the only dimensional differences between a cross bike and a similar size road bike is the bottom bracket height. The saddle-pedals, reach, etc. can be exactly the same, but because the BB is a little higher off the ground, you might lose a cm of standover.

But for me, I intended to just use the bike for road-ish use - gravel, commuting, non technical trails. So, losing a little standover wasn't really an issue. Plus, even on the cross bike frame, I had plenty for the use intended. I ended up choosing a bike that was the same size as my road bike and it's working out perfectly.

Too much minutia! But depending on your usage, like Terex, if you follow the common rule of sizing down one for a cross frame, unless you really need that extra standover and more aggressive position of the smaller bike (shorter head tube = more saddle/bar drop), you'll just end up with a bike that's one size too small.


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## J.R. (Sep 14, 2009)

Here is another place where the road turned into first gravel and then dirt before coming out again on pavement. I would have very happy to have had something wider then the 25's on this section.

This is in the high country of NC.


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## tednugent (Apr 26, 2010)

cross bike sizing is debatable.

I asked my LBS techs who also cross race the same thing. Some of them liked going a size down. Others didn't.

I kept the similar size as my road bike.


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## PMC (Jan 29, 2004)

JulieW said:


> 5'8" 150 lb and age 49 for what it is worth.
> I live in Iowa so the gravel is quite variable. Some of it is an inch or more chunks that can be quite loose. I like to explore, so I never know what the road might turn into. I think I would not feel comfortable on my 23s. I ride crushed limestone without any problems.
> 
> I'm somewhat paranoid of flats on the gravel. Is this a problem? Should you run higher pressures to avoid pinches? I've been riding 90-100.


Iowa has some pretty rough gravel so I'd look for a bike that can handle 40-45mm tires. You may also want to check out Gravel Grinder News as they're based in Iowa and put on the Trans Iowa gravel race. Lots of first had experience there. 
Good luck and enjoy!


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## NJBiker72 (Jul 9, 2011)

While I believe you can handle gravel on a normal road bike with slightly wider tires, have you checked out the Specialized AWOL

http://m.specialized.com/us/en/bikes/fitness/awol

This would be my second bike if I did not alrwady have my Secteur.


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## JulieW (Apr 1, 2014)

NJBiker72 said:


> While I believe you can handle gravel on a normal road bike with slightly wider tires, have you checked out the Specialized AWOL
> 
> Specialized Bicycle Components
> 
> This would be my second bike if I did not alrwady have my Secteur.


I've not seen that locally.
I have my eye on the Giant Brava SLR2, although my lbs would have to order it. They have a good variety of Giant and Felt CX bikes but most are not stocked. All they have in stock are tricrosses and some Cross checks. Another shop carries Trek. I will probably stop in and chat with them this weekend.


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## NJBiker72 (Jul 9, 2011)

JulieW said:


> I've not seen that locally.
> I have my eye on the Giant Brava SLR2, although my lbs would have to order it. They have a good variety of Giant and Felt CX bikes but most are not stocked. All they have in stock are tricrosses and some Cross checks. Another shop carries Trek. I will probably stop in and chat with them this weekend.


That Giant is a nice looking bike. Just got my daughter an Avail but if they had that at a lower price point it would ve a great option.


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## nOOky (Mar 20, 2009)

I would ride the bike of choice based on the conditions of the road. In my opinion, which is mine alone, if you are truly riding gravel you'd want 32mm tires with good volume. If you can get away with 23mm race tires and light rims you're probably just riding a hard pack dirt road.

Gravel above pea size might have dips that can cause a pinch flat, areas where the gravel is deep enough to bog you down and possibly wash you out, or gravel with edges that can slice a tire's sidewall if it's too fragile. If you have ever gotten gravel in between a tire and an expensive carbon road fork that's a hazard also.

Personally, I like to go with too much bike when in doubt. When I'm out riding it's not a race, so I err on the side of safety. I feel better descending loose gravel roads with 32mm knobbies, especially when cornering. I'll suffer using knobbies on the road for a portion of the ride in that case. It doesn't really matter, if you're training and exerting the same effort regardless of speed, who cares.

Myself, I like to have a spare cross bike just set up for gravel grinding. If I were to train for a road century on it I'd worry more about the time expected finish of my road century than trying to replicate the miles off road for an on road event.
Just make sure you ride the road bike enough on the road so you are comfortable enough with it to complete your long event.


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## seacoaster (May 9, 2010)

You’ll be making tradeoffs between comfort/stability and rolling resistance. As noted by the postings, there are a variety of opinions on this. If you have the opportunity, you might want to take test rides on the surfaces you typically ride on with a variety of tires. The type of bike won’t matter too much. I think you will figure it out in short order, as you have experience with the types of roads you will be riding on.

I don’t get off pavement very often, but I’ll offer my opinion. I have a road bike with 25’s, a hybrid with 32’s, and a hybrid with 37’s (my errand bike). The 25’s are too squirrelly on anything but hardpack. The 32’s are OK off pavement, and I can ride on pretty crappy surfaces with the 37’s. I think the 32’s are a pretty good compromise for paved and decent unpaved surfaces, but others may have a different opinion or preference. Personally I don’t want to have to pay much attention to staying upright and lean toward wider tires (and don’t really care how fast I go).

You can always change tires to suit your riding, as long as the bike will accept the width.

By the way, I share your desire to ride at 4:30 AM. In the summer when the sunrise is 5:00, it’s wonderful to have the roads to yourself. Just make sure you are visible – no ninja costumes, and make sure you have decent lights.


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## mmoose (Apr 2, 2004)

bradkay said:


> Just don't lean your bike against that Corvette!


pfft. Don't lean that Corvette against your bike...


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## JulieW (Apr 1, 2014)

nOOky said:


> I would ride the bike of choice based on the conditions of the road. In my opinion, which is mine alone, if you are truly riding gravel you'd want 32mm tires with good volume. If you can get away with 23mm race tires and light rims you're probably just riding a hard pack dirt road.
> 
> Gravel above pea size might have dips that can cause a pinch flat, areas where the gravel is deep enough to bog you down and possibly wash you out, or gravel with edges that can slice a tire's sidewall if it's too fragile. If you have ever gotten gravel in between a tire and an expensive carbon road fork that's a hazard also.
> 
> ...


Thanks, thats very helpful.


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## bradkay (Nov 5, 2013)

mmoose said:


> pfft. Don't lean that Corvette against your bike...





You and I might feel that way, but I'll wager that her husband doesn't... I'm just offering advice on maintaining marital peace.


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## Terex (Jan 3, 2005)

Just remembered a tire/wheel combo specific for gravel - the WTB ChrisCross - CrossWolf. I may get these for my Cdale SuperX.

WTB?s Cross Wolf Tire Takes a ChrisCross Path to Tubeless ? Cyclocross at Interbike 2013 | Cyclocross Magazine ? Cyclocross News, Races, Bikes, Photos, Videos


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