# Disturbing noise from BB



## hrider614

I took delivery of my beautiful new RM01 last Tuesday and after 200 miles i could not be happier. However, out for a ride earlier today and upon acceleration there was a knarley sound coming from somewhere. Almost a ratcheting or heavy clicking sound under strong tourque. It only happens under heavy load. It's not the rear wheel as i tried a spare wheel. Rode down to my LBS and demonstrated the noise for them. They were a bit perplexed so i left it with them to investigate. They took the BB apart and other than maybe being a bit light on grease...they didn't find anythign out of the oridnary. Dude rode it and could not produce the noice himself. I have not picked it up yet. 

I'm running an Ultegra crankset with stock BB. 

Anyone ever experience this? Perhaps i should have posted in some sort of mechanical thread.


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## looigi

My most common BB noise has been due to the crank spindle needing grease where it goes through the inner races. I use a thick moly/graphite assembly paste for this.


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## thomasrcleary

I have a similar issue with my teammachine slr01 2012 with SRAM Red. In my case it was the lock nut on the rear sprocket which was loose. I've since had to tighten it a few times as it keeps coming loose.
There is also another knocking noise coming from my frame which I think is my seat post on the frame!


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## hrider614

Update...I picked up the bike and put 75 miles on it over the weekend with no issues. Hopped on yesterday and within a few pedal strokes the sound was back louder than ever. Took it back to the shop. They have more time to investigate this time so i'll update what is going on in a day or two. After reading the latest thread about BMC warrenties i'm starting to get a lil nervous.


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## hrider614

Well...not that anyone cares...but i thought i would update my thread in case someone else is having this isssue. It has been several weeks now and my BB has been taken apart and re-assebled about a dozen times with every lube imaginable and this sound is still there. It doesn't matter who rides it. I'm fairly certian now that the press fit BB86 installed on my bike is no good. It is flexing under heavy load causing interal parts to grind somewhere. I'm about to take the bike apart and send it back to BMC. I have no idea how this will end.....


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## looigi

I believe that on that bike the BB on the frame is an aluminum cylinder bonded into the frame. Cartridge bearings press into that. The crank spindle passes through the inner races of the cartridge bearings. Noise in these is most often due to the spindle moving in the inner races and is fixed with heavy grease. Sometimes the outer races move in the aluminum cylinder and the fix is using a specific Loctite bonding agent. 

If the crank is not specific for the BB86, there may be adapters between the al cylinder and bearings, or between the bearings and spindles. There is opportunity for creaks to develop between the adapters and where they mount. Grease or bonding agent me be appropriate to address this. 

Do you think it's something other than this? 

Have you looked at or do you suspect there is an issue with the aluminum cylinder or it's bonding within the frame?


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## hrider614

You are 100% correct. It's nearly imppossible to determine if the noise is being generated from the interface between the crank spindle and the bearings or if the entire BB assembly is moving within the aluminum housing. We tried locktite 641 (i think that was the number..the yellow stuff) to secure this area but nothing has worked so far. No ammount or type of grease has made any difference whatsoever. The only thing we have determined for sure is that something is flexing way more than designed and is causing this noise. The owner of my LBS has been building bikes for 30 years and his suggestion was to send it back.


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## hrider614

OK...my first ever video upload. Maybe this will spark some interest. 

IMG 05501] - YouTube


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## zerog_85

Wow, that's too bad. I just dealt with a creaky seat post on my SLX01. I'm lucky that was an easy fix. 

I would be interested in hearing any additional updates.


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## looigi

Wow. Strange sound. It sounds the same for both left and right pedal strokes. Never heard anything like the coming from a BB. Does it sound the same regardless of ring or cog that's in use?


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## hrider614

Join the club...no one else has ever heard anything like it either...well, except for the ******** that i just tried to get a second opinion from. Stopped by another high end shop down the street from my workplace and he wasn't even interested in dealing with me unless i gave hime $ for an hour labor. What a total snobbish *******. 

It's harder to replicate as you move down the cassett to bigger gears...less torque. I guess i have no choice but to start the dreaded warranty process...ugh.


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## hrider614

hmmm...apparently you can't use naughty words on this site.


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## hrider614

Put another 75 miles on the RM01 and the noise has become more frequent and takes less effort to produce. Def getting worse. Boxed it back up today and its on its way back to CC. Sigh...

I'll let ya'll know what they come up with.


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## bikerjulio

Definitely horrible noise. Hardly sounded like a BB. The rear wheel was checked/swapped too, was it?


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## hrider614

Yes, wheel was swapped....same noise. This noise has stumped everyone I have shown it too. I honestly think the bike is cursed. I put a total of 400 miles on it the short time i had it and had 5 flats during that time.


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## tlg

Definitely an odd BB sound. Given than neither grease or loctite made a difference, my guess is it wasn't BB related. Usually loctite or grease will at least quiet creaks for a short time. I wonder if it was an internal problem with the frame and alum BB shell.


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## love4himies

hrider614 said:


> Yes, wheel was swapped....same noise. This noise has stumped everyone I have shown it too. I honestly think the bike is cursed. I put a total of 400 miles on it the short time i had it and had 5 flats during that time.


Wow! Who knows what would have happened next. I hope it doesn't take too long to get it sorted out and you back riding again.


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## hrider614

tlg said:


> Definitely an odd BB sound. Given than neither grease or loctite made a difference, my guess is it wasn't BB related. Usually loctite or grease will at least quiet creaks for a short time. I wonder if it was an internal problem with the frame and alum BB shell.


Bingo....that's what i'm leaning toward. This is also the opinion of the owner of my LBS. He spent several hours with it before i decided to send it back and pretty much threw his hands up. He didn't even charge me anything because he said it was a learning experience for him.


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## RJP Diver

hrider614 said:


> Yes, wheel was swapped....same noise. This noise has stumped everyone I have shown it too. I honestly think the bike is cursed. I put a total of 400 miles on it the short time i had it and had 5 flats during that time.


Tighten the chainring bolts.


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## bmwk100

I had a similar sound after 900 miles on my Teammachine. My shop thought it was the pedals so they greased them and returned the bike to me. The sound came back again immediately, especially under heavy load, and the shop determined my rear wheel (Enve) needed the spokes tightened. 300 miles later and no problem now. Good luck.


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## thomasrcleary

I'm doing an 85km sportive this weekend so I'll put it through it paces .

Thanks


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## hrider614

bmwk100 said:


> I had a similar sound after 900 miles on my Teammachine. My shop thought it was the pedals so they greased them and returned the bike to me. The sound came back again immediately, especially under heavy load, and the shop determined my rear wheel (Enve) needed the spokes tightened. 300 miles later and no problem now. Good luck.


Another interesting theroy, but the first thing i did was swap wheels and the sound was still there so I'd have to say it's probably not my spokes. I'll report back when i get some news.


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## Wilier_speed

hrider614 said:


> I took delivery of my beautiful new RM01 last Tuesday and after 200 miles i could not be happier. However, out for a ride earlier today and upon acceleration there was a knarley sound coming from somewhere. Almost a ratcheting or heavy clicking sound under strong tourque. It only happens under heavy load. It's not the rear wheel as i tried a spare wheel. Rode down to my LBS and demonstrated the noise for them. They were a bit perplexed so i left it with them to investigate. They took the BB apart and other than maybe being a bit light on grease...they didn't find anythign out of the oridnary. Dude rode it and could not produce the noice himself. I have not picked it up yet.
> 
> I'm running an Ultegra crankset with stock BB.
> 
> Anyone ever experience this? Perhaps i should have posted in some sort of mechanical thread.


Just want you to know I have something very similar with my Team Machine SLR01. The type of noise is very similar but a little less frequent and it only happens under load. I've had my LBS take apart the bottom bracket 4 times and try everything and nothing takes the noise away. I've actually replaced the entire groupset and wheelset and I still get the same noise! My LBS said that they can't figure it out and its bad enough that I should definitely send the frame back to BMC.


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## looigi

Wilier_speed said:


> Just want you to know I have something very similar with my Team Machine SLR01. The type of noise is very similar but a little less frequent and it only happens under load. I've had my LBS take apart the bottom bracket 4 times and try everything and nothing takes the noise away. I've actually replaced the entire groupset and wheelset and I still get the same noise! My LBS said that they can't figure it out and its bad enough that I should definitely send the frame back to BMC.


Could you tell us everything they tried? It might be helpful for us to know more about it.


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## bmwk100

I had the same issue and it turned out to be my rear Enve wheel. They tightened it up and I have not had the problem since.


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## Wilier_speed

looigi said:


> Could you tell us everything they tried? It might be helpful for us to know more about it.


My LBS (which is a BMC dealer) tried different types of carbon paste, a completely different crankset and bottom bracket, praxis BB30 adapter using a non BB30 bottom bracket (Dura Ace,) tightened up headset, lubed everything liberally, changed out the wheels and skewers, changed the entire groupset from Sram to Dura Ace, changed the bars and stem to aluminum and changed my shoes and pedals (Look to Shimano.) The only thing that hasn't been changed is the frame.

I'm now disassembling the bike to send the frame to BMC.


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## looigi

Wow. Sure seems like they tried everything on the bike. How about the rider? Sometimes my right knee squeaks.


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## hrider614

Wilier_speed said:


> Just want you to know I have something very similar with my Team Machine SLR01. The type of noise is very similar but a little less frequent and it only happens under load. I've had my LBS take apart the bottom bracket 4 times and try everything and nothing takes the noise away. I've actually replaced the entire groupset and wheelset and I still get the same noise! My LBS said that they can't figure it out and its bad enough that I should definitely send the frame back to BMC.



OK everyone...I have some news, which also may help you Willer. I ended up sending the RM01 back to CC. The head mechanic (and apparently part owner of CC) called me and wanted to know more about my issue. After speaking with me and riding it he remembered an issue that comes up every now and then with Shimano chains on 10 speed Shimano groups. As he expalained to me, they can build 100 bikes and never have an issue but evey so often they just dont work right. There is really no good explanation. He put a SRAM chain on my bike and no more noise. He had others really hammer on it and i guess its quiet as a mouse. He said they are starting to hear this same noise on a lot of the 11 speed Shimano groupsets. New chains+increased angle involved in the expanded gear range=more friction...clicking noise. Due to the nature of how carbon resonated sound so well this confuses a lot of bike people because its very difficult to determine where the noise is actually coming from. Who would have though it was the chain? 

So...thats the story. I have not received it back yet but Craig from CC seemed pretty confident that the issue should be taken care of. He told me to google shimano chain issues, apparently there are some blogs out there. I have not done so yet but i will soon. 

The last thing i will say is that Competative Cyclists has been absolutly faantastic to work with. It's unfortunate that my bike was the one that had this issue but they have worked with me the whole way without incident. It's refreshing for me to know that some people still give a $hit.


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## looigi

A bit OT, but I've experienced outstanding customer service from CC myself, but that was before they were bought by Backcountry.com. Good to hear it's continuing.


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## love4himies

Glad you've been well taken care of and hopefully it is just the chain. 

I would have thought this would be something that other bike stores have had to deal with. Shimano chains on Shimano 10 speed group sets are not uncommon. Anywho, just happy it was nothing major.


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## hrider614

Well...its been a few weeks and I haven't been home to put as many miles in as I would have liked too, but for those of you who read my last post and were thinking to yourselves...huh, that doesn't sound right...you would be correct. Since CC sent my RM01 back to me with the SRAM chain installed I've put another 200 miles on the bike and the same noise has returned. It gets worse with every ride. I've had it. I'm convinced this bike is cursed. This has been the most frustrating purchase i have ever made. It's like taking your brand new Porsche out for a spin and the fan belt is squeeling like a stuck pig. Riding is supposed to be the most enjoyable part of my day...I just get pissed everytime i get on this bike now. Sending it back again and either fighting for a full refund or will possibly entertain another brand of bike. Maybe I'll just go get another a Scatantte to hold me over until i figure out what else i want. Never had a lick of trouble with my first one.


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## love4himies

Awww, that must be frigging disappointing for you. I hope you get a new bike.


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## love4himies

Any updates?


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## hrider614

I sent the RM01 back to Competitive Cyclists and theygave me a full refund with no problems at all. Very happy with the way CC handled this. I was very close to having them send me a Pinnerello ROKH but Ideclined. I'm currently trolling Craigslist to try and find something get me tospring and warmer weather. I live in Ohio and other than some cold weekendrides my season is pretty much shot here until spring. <o></o>
I'm not sure now what my next bike will be...but theROKH is very high on my list. Unfortunately I’m probably done with BMC. I'vehad 2 now and had issues with both.<o></o>


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## Wilier_speed

I just wanted to follow up and say that I sent my frame back to BMC and they sent me a new frame today. 1st class customer service all the way. I'm very impressed with the way it was handled in such a short amount of time. My LBS and I did everything we could over a period of a few months to fix the creaking / cracking sound on my previous 2011 frame so I feel they really came through and I'm very happy to have a new frame. Thank you BMC (and my local LBS!)


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## easyridernyc

hrider614 said:


> I sent the RM01 back to Competitive Cyclists and theygave me a full refund with no problems at all. Very happy with the way CC handled this. I was very close to having them send me a Pinnerello ROKH but Ideclined. I'm currently trolling Craigslist to try and find something get me tospring and warmer weather. I live in Ohio and other than some cold weekendrides my season is pretty much shot here until spring. <o></o>
> I'm not sure now what my next bike will be...but theROKH is very high on my list. Unfortunately I’m probably done with BMC. I'vehad 2 now and had issues with both.<o></o>


wow..the whole deal sounds henke. i wonder what it was?

it sucks on the one hand, that they sent it back like that, on the other hand its cool that they refunded your money. wonder what a shot rm goes for these days?


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## paule11

What a shame hope the next bike has no trouble never heard of anything like that before


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## Cni2i

Hope your next bike, whatever it may be, works out much better. Even the slightest "odd" noise drives me nuts. Can't imagine how awful it was to ride your bike with that insane noise.


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## element battler

Sorry to hear the trouble you had mate. I'm late to the party but I had a similar problem yesterday which I remedied by removing and regreasing the chainring bolts. I also put a few drops of chain lube between the frame and rear dropout/derailleur hanger to stop it creaking. 
I realise I'm too late to help you but somebody else might need it.


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## hrider614

Well...its been a while...rotten winter got me down so over a few bikeless, frigid months I worked with my LBS and decided on a 2012 Colnago M10 he had sitting in his shop for a few years. Kinda wanted to give BMC another shot but it was hard to pass up the deal he was offering. I built it up with SRAM components this time...not that it really matters. First few rides were like a dream come true, I was literally on cloud 9......and then the other day it happened again.....the exact same noise that was coming from my BMC. It was like a knife to the heart. This is the most baffling thing i have ever dealt with. Besides the rider the only common item was the pedals...so i switched them and that didn't work, same noise. If you have followed this thread the noise in the video is EXACTLY the same on the new M10. Same exact characteristics...only happens under heavy torque, only in the largest 2 chainrings, doesn't matter which side of the crank is on the down stroke....it's literally the exact same noise. I still have no idea where it is coming from. It really sounds like its coming from the rear derailleur area or possibly the rear wheel...but i cannot pinpoint it. I swapped wheels last time and that didn't help any so i almost want to rule that out again...but when i take it back in that is the first thing we will try. I'll try and get another video and post it, but i'm probably going to start a new thread in the maintenance section. The bike works fine....it's just extremely annoying to hear this sound again when i get up and crank on it. This should not be happening. So far this has baffled everyone I have shown it to.


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## bikerjulio

That is really odd. I remember listening to that first video and thinking how strange it was.

And I've had my share of hard to pin down noises too.

Did you build this up yourself?


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## hrider614

Not this time. I'm about to take it apart and start over though.


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## mikerp

hrider614 said:


> Same exact characteristics...only happens under heavy torque, only in the largest 2 chainrings, doesn't matter which side of the crank is on the down stroke....it's literally the exact same noise


My guess is you are referring to the largest 2 cogs in the cassette and the small chain ring up front.

When you mentioned you swapped wheels, does each wheel have it's own cassette? If so how many miles on the cassettes? If the cassettes are not new have you checked the cogs for wear? A worn cog and a new chain will cause some vibrations in a drive train. If you are moving the cassette from wheel to wheel are you sure that you tightened it down?

I've heard a very similar noise from a set of Qrings that were not set up the right way, the difference being the rub was on the smallest cogs and it was non stop. Noise was from the chain and FD cage.


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## bikerjulio

I know you said SRAM components, but what about the wheels and cassettes?

Could you provide more detailed information?

Not Shimano 11-speed by any chance?

If so I may have a suggestion.


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## hrider614

mikerp said:


> My guess is you are referring to the largest 2 cogs in the cassette and the small chain ring up front.
> 
> When you mentioned you swapped wheels, does each wheel have it's own cassette? If so how many miles on the cassettes? If the cassettes are not new have you checked the cogs for wear? A worn cog and a new chain will cause some vibrations in a drive train. If you are moving the cassette from wheel to wheel are you sure that you tightened it down?
> 
> I've heard a very similar noise from a set of Qrings that were not set up the right way, the difference being the rub was on the smallest cogs and it was non stop. Noise was from the chain and FD cage.


The noise is easiest to produce when I'm in the large chain ring up front and yes...the biggest cogs in the cassette. Everything is brand new. Did not swap cassettes.


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## mikerp

hrider614 said:


> The noise is easiest to produce when I'm in the large chain ring up front and yes...the biggest cogs in the cassette. Everything is brand new. Did not swap cassettes.


I would be looking at the FD cage, I'd mark up the inside of the FD cage (sharpie, machinist ink, etc) and look for something rubbing. Realistically you should not be using the gears in that configuration, but the cage should not be rubbing.


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## cxwrench

mikerp said:


> I would be looking at the FD cage, I'd mark up the inside of the FD cage (sharpie, machinist ink, etc) and look for something rubbing. Realistically you should not be using the gears in that configuration, but the cage should not be rubbing.


Modern drivetrains are engineered to be totally useable in the big/big. Small/small not so much, but big/big is a very common situation especially if you're pinning on a number. Obviously the more you do it that faster you'll wear sh*it out, but it should be completely fine to do it.


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## bikerjulio

What brand, model, and #speeds are the cassettes?

Wheels?

This thread is a little short of detail.


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## mikerp

cxwrench said:


> Obviously the more you do it that faster you'll wear sh*it out, but it should be completely fine to do it.


As mentioned it should certainly work, doing it is part of Campy's installation. The reason I mention it is you will wear things out. Not to mention, with std setups, the ratios over lap, so there is no benefit.


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## jmess

Sorta of surfed down to this point. Don't know if you have swapped out the rear quick release with one that has more clamping force and greased the rear drop outs.


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## easyridernyc

whoa....

scrolled through. different bikes, same noise. that is STRANGE, man...


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## hrider614

bikerjulio said:


> What brand, model, and #speeds are the cassettes?
> 
> Wheels?
> 
> This thread is a little short of detail.


BMC had complete Ultegra group with DI2, cassette configuration is escaping me at the moment, Mavic Kys Elite Wheels. Started with a shimano chain but then CC suggested switching to SRAM chain...no change at all, same noise. I sent this bike back with less than 500 miles on it

Colnago has SRAM force 10 speed derailleurs, RED crank, ultegra 10 speed cassette and again Mavic Kys Elite wheels...but no the same ones. Had a new set of 2013's I never used so i put them on the new bike. This bike currently has less than 200 miles on it.


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## bikerjulio

hrider614 said:


> BMC had complete Ultegra group with DI2, cassette configuration is escaping me at the moment, Mavic Kys Elite Wheels. Started with a shimano chain but then CC suggested switching to SRAM chain...no change at all, same noise. I sent this bike back with less than 500 miles on it
> 
> Colnago has SRAM force 10 speed derailleurs, RED crank, ultegra 10 speed cassette and again Mavic Kys Elite wheels...but no the same ones. Had a new set of 2013's I never used so i put them on the new bike. This bike currently has less than 200 miles on it.


OK I was trying to find out if they were the same type cassettes and/or wheels.

I have not read of problems with Ultegra 10-speed cassettes, and obviously they have been around a long time. Not so much with the 11 speed.

If you are a powerful rider, capable of putting out a lot of torque, and the problem only occurs on the bigger sprockets, then there's the possibility that the carriers for these sprockets are starting to fail, giving you the horrible noises. I know you originally swapped wheels, but I'd thought that possibly both cassettes were starting to go.

The counter argument is simply the lack of other reported problems with this cassette.

The best way to test might be to put on a brand new cassette and see if the noise is still there.

The fact that the same problem happened on two completely different bikes, leads one to consider any common elements, one being yourself (not blaming, but how strong are you?).


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## hrider614

bikerjulio said:


> OK I was trying to find out if they were the same type cassettes and/or wheels.
> 
> I have not read of problems with Ultegra 10-speed cassettes, and obviously they have been around a long time. Not so much with the 11 speed.
> 
> If you are a powerful rider, capable of putting out a lot of torque, and the problem only occurs on the bigger sprockets, then there's the possibility that the carriers for these sprockets are starting to fail, giving you the horrible noises. I know you originally swapped wheels, but I'd thought that possibly both cassettes were starting to go.
> 
> The counter argument is simply the lack of other reported problems with this cassette.
> 
> The best way to test might be to put on a brand new cassette and see if the noise is still there.
> 
> The fact that the same problem happened on two completely different bikes, leads one to consider any common elements, one being yourself (not blaming, but how strong are you?).


Yes...there are common elements in the cassette and wheelset, but we are still talking two completely different sets of components and wheels. I've explored the common elements but just cannot believe i'm producing enough power to cause extensively engineered, proven products to not perform as designed. I want to rule out the wheels...the problem persists no matter what wheel is used. 

I'm a larger rider (6'1" 230lbs) with pretty strong legs, but by no means producing anywhere near the output professional riders are exerting on their bikes. These are not top tier components the pro's are using, but they should be able to take eveything the average rider can give them. I'm average on a good day.


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## Z'mer

So the noise only happens with the two largest rear cogs, usually on the large front ring? What size are the rear cogs? Did you check the chain length (both big - big and small - small) ? 

Perhaps you could go to a longer chain. Take a look using small - small to see if there is room to do that. I think most manufacturers, right or wrong, use big- big (+ 2 links when not through the derailleur) method to size chains. That can make for very tight chains (and maybe added noise) when actually riding big-big.

Oh, and my 2013 Felt with a stock 12-30 rear does the same thing, if it makes you feel any better. Noise on the two largest rear cogs when in big front (but fine, no noise using the small front). 

I just avoid using that combination. I checked the small small yesterday, and there's room to go longer on the chain, so will next time I change chains. May not be it, but worth a try.


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## bikerjulio

Z'mer said:


> So the noise only happens with the two largest rear cogs, usually on the large front ring? What size are the rear cogs? Did you check the chain length (both big - big and small - small) ?
> 
> Perhaps you could go to a longer chain. Take a look using small - small to see if there is room to do that. I think most manufacturers, right or wrong, use big- big (+ 2 links when not through the derailleur) method to size chains. That can make for very tight chains (and maybe added noise) when actually riding big-big.
> 
> Oh, and my 2013 Felt with a stock 12-30 rear does the same thing, if it makes you feel any better. Noise on the two largest rear cogs when in big front (but fine, no noise using the small front).
> 
> I just avoid using that combination. I checked the small small yesterday, and there's room to go longer on the chain, so will next time I change chains. May not be it, but worth a try.


I agree with you, in that my take on the sound in the video was that it was chain related, some kind of rub noise.

The real puzzle then is why all the experts looking into this cannot pin it down, even to the point of giving OP a refund on the bike. Just weird.


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## hrider614

Z'mer said:


> So the noise only happens with the two largest rear cogs, usually on the large front ring? What size are the rear cogs? Did you check the chain length (both big - big and small - small) ?
> 
> Perhaps you could go to a longer chain. Take a look using small - small to see if there is room to do that. I think most manufacturers, right or wrong, use big- big (+ 2 links when not through the derailleur) method to size chains. That can make for very tight chains (and maybe added noise) when actually riding big-big.
> 
> Oh, and my 2013 Felt with a stock 12-30 rear does the same thing, if it makes you feel any better. Noise on the two largest rear cogs when in big front (but fine, no noise using the small front).
> 
> I just avoid using that combination. I checked the small small yesterday, and there's room to go longer on the chain, so will next time I change chains. May not be it, but worth a try.


I appreciate your interest (and everyone else) in this problem i'm having. I'm 99% certain is an 11-25 configuration, ultegra. I'm sorry....this is by no means a personal attack on you or anyone else who has suggested this...but i should be able to utilize whatever combination of gears i want to without having to deal with strange noises. I had zero issues with the 3 bikes prior to the 2 higher end models that that are giving me nothing but headaches. I'm going to figure this out eventually. If i have time today i'm going to the LBS and swapping cassetts first thing. I'm fairly certain the noise is coming from the back end of the bike...not the BB or front derailluer.


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## tlg

Have you tried the bike on a trainer? Can you reproduce it there? If so, it should be pretty quick to isolate where it's coming from.


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## hrider614

tlg said:


> Have you tried the bike on a trainer? Can you reproduce it there? If so, it should be pretty quick to isolate where it's coming from.


I did with the BMC...no luck. Haven't tried with the Colnago yet. Might be doing that tonight.


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## tlg

hrider614 said:


> I did with the BMC...no luck. Haven't tried with the Colnago yet. Might be doing that tonight.


What does "no luck mean"? You couldn't reproduce the sound? Or couldn't isolate where it was coming from?


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## hrider614

tlg said:


> What does "no luck mean"? You couldn't reproduce the sound? Or couldn't isolate where it was coming from?


Sorry...couldn't reproduce the sound.


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## tlg

hrider614 said:


> Sorry...couldn't reproduce the sound.


Then the sound isn't coming from chain rub. Unless it's due to frame flex or wheel flex. 
Are you sure you're rear skewers are tight?


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## Z'mer

OK, just watched the video, which I had did not before. I see you are in the small front and it happens on each front down stroke of the pedal. 

That's not close to what I hear on my bike in the rear, my noise is much smaller / more subtle. 

The noise frequency you have at that slow speed can only be the crank teeth or chain hitting something like the front derailleur. Reminds me of my old coaster brake bike when the chain guard rubbed the chain, after the guard took a good whack. 

I would dig into the front derailleur adjustment. 
The derailleur may be too low on the mount, or a bit off one way - perhaps the shop needs to relax the left stop a little. 
When the chain pulls it to the left in the big rear gear, AND you flex the frame on a high torque down pedal stroke, you get the noise.

Go to the shop, stand all your weight on one pedal at 3 o'clock position with the front brake on, not moving. Have the technician look at the front sprocket / derailleur position as you apply and then relax your weight.


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## easyridernyc

hrider614 said:


> Yes...there are common elements in the cassette and wheelset, but we are still talking two completely different sets of components and wheels. I've explored the common elements but just cannot believe i'm producing enough power to cause extensively engineered, proven products to not perform as designed. I want to rule out the wheels...the problem persists no matter what wheel is used.
> 
> I'm a larger rider (6'1" 230lbs) with pretty strong legs, but by no means producing anywhere near the output professional riders are exerting on their bikes. These are not top tier components the pro's are using, but they should be able to take eveything the average rider can give them. I'm average on a good day.


maybe the hubs?


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## carbonite

that is an interesting noise. i have definitely heard that type of noise from tolerances too tight on chain, chainring, FD, and frame flex combo. and the chain will rub the FD under load. But, only on the driveside forward and down stroke. to have it on both strokes in succession is quite odd. and most chainrigs have a certain degree of wave to them, meaning they are usually not vertically true discs. the chance of having that much flex on both stroke makes me think you are just a Clydesdale and dont know your own strength? No Offense. Clydesdales Unite! I'm sorry but a 130lb pro is just not going to be even physically capable of putting down the output that you inherently have in those tree trunks of yours bro(in your pros output referance)! once again no offense to both accounts. That sounds like flexing chain into the FD. Have you tried an 8 speed era FD that technically should have more clearance? see if it rubs with an 8 speed FD. worth a shot?


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## danielc

Did you ever try tightening chainring bolts?


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## hrider614

danielc said:


> Did you ever try tightening chainring bolts?


Unfortunately I have been out of town traveling for work. I dropped the bike off at the shop last week and have not checked in with them since. I'll be back home tomorrow...i'll get out an update on the bike status.


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## hrider614

So....It's been a while, but after 500 miles of swapping parts, riding hard and testing here is what I have come to discover. This is hard for me to fathom but apparently Mavic Ksyrium Elite wheels are not for me. If you have followed this thread you will know that the ONLY two common components from my BMC and the current Colnago were the Ultegra 11-25 cassette and the Mavic wheels...neither of which were the same actual parts. My LBS was kind enough to let me borrow parts the last few weeks as I tried to determine where this was coming from. I tried different chains, cassettes and wheel combinations and the problem noise only occurs under hard acceleration when the Mavic wheel is installed. This makes absolutely no sense whatsoever to me but it is what it is. I rode with a run of the mill (cheap) Shimano wheel (cant remember the #) for about 100 miles and no problems whatsoever. Can somebody explain to me why a $100 wheel performs better than the Ksyrium Elete's? I'm not in the mood to spend anymore $ on this project at the moment so I'm just going to deal with it for now...also going to switch to a 11-28 cassette...less torque so the problem is lesser with this combination. The Mavic wheel is clearly flexing under load causing my cassette & chain to contact at an odd angle which is causing the grinding noise. I'd love a recommendation on an everyday wheelset for less that $1K that will hold up to me. I'm 6'-1" 230lbs and apparently pretty strong.


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## uncrx2003

hrider614 said:


> So....It's been a while, but after 500 miles of swapping parts, riding hard and testing here is what I have come to discover. This is hard for me to fathom but apparently Mavic Ksyrium Elite wheels are not for me. If you have followed this thread you will know that the ONLY two common components from my BMC and the current Colnago were the Ultegra 11-25 cassette and the Mavic wheels...neither of which were the same actual parts. My LBS was kind enough to let me borrow parts the last few weeks as I tried to determine where this was coming from. I tried different chains, cassettes and wheel combinations and the problem noise only occurs under hard acceleration when the Mavic wheel is installed. This makes absolutely no sense whatsoever to me but it is what it is. I rode with a run of the mill (cheap) Shimano wheel (cant remember the #) for about 100 miles and no problems whatsoever. Can somebody explain to me why a $100 wheel performs better than the Ksyrium Elete's? I'm not in the mood to spend anymore $ on this project at the moment so I'm just going to deal with it for now...also going to switch to a 11-28 cassette...less torque so the problem is lesser with this combination. The Mavic wheel is clearly flexing under load causing my cassette & chain to contact at an odd angle which is causing the grinding noise. I'd love a recommendation on an everyday wheelset for less that $1K that will hold up to me. I'm 6'-1" 230lbs and apparently pretty strong.


At your weight, I would get a custom set build with 32 spokes for the rear. You can get a set under a grand for that. I would recommend you email Rob of Psimet. Maybe C2 rims with white industries hubs and cxray spokes.


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## love4himies

Wow, finally, I'm glad you found the problem, crappy that you have to buy new wheels, though.


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## tlg

hrider614 said:


> Can somebody explain to me why a $100 wheel performs better than the Ksyrium Elete's?


Because Ksyrium Elites try to cut corners in the wrong areas to save weight. Spoke count is only 18/20. (Which is way to low for your weight by the way.) And they're overpriced.
Your $100 wheel isn't trying to be as light as possible so it's built more robust. What's the spoke count?




> The Mavic wheel is clearly flexing under load causing my cassette & chain to contact at an odd angle which is causing the grinding noise. I'd love a recommendation on an everyday wheelset for less that $1K that will hold up to me. I'm 6'-1" 230lbs and apparently pretty strong.


Contact BWW. They'll hook you up for way under $1k and you'll have a wheel far better than the Ksyrium that won't flex.

http://www.bicyclewheelwarehouse.com/Road/Road-Rider-Weight
Pure Aero 700c Wheel Set

You could get the Pure Aero with podium build, 24/28 spokes for $550 and they'll weigh the same as your Ksyriums. But talk to BWW because even that might be too light for you. Ideally you should have 32 spokes.


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## primov8

hrider614 said:


> ... I'd love a recommendation on an everyday wheelset for less that $1K that will hold up to me. I'm 6'-1" 230lbs and apparently pretty strong.


Check out Hoops Wheels:
HOOPs Wheels - HOOPs 2426 Pacenti SL23 Build

The 28/32 build for under $500.

Or the Kinlin option for under $600, 28/32 build with Sapim CX-ray spokes.
HOOPs Wheels - HOOPs 2328 Elite Kinlin 279 Wheelset


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## hrider614

Thanks guys for all the great suggestions. I've looked at all 3 recommendations so far...haven't spoken to anyone yet (def gonna have a chat before I purchase anything) but I will definitely be purchasing a custom set of wheels very soon, probably from one of the three places suggested above. This has been quite a learning experience for me. I feel like a fool now for purchasing the Mavic wheels with such a low spoke count....I guess I was blinded by the big brand name marketing and kind words from individuals in the industry. Now I'm questioning why *SOMEBODY* (anybody really) didn't say to me..."hey dude, you're way to big to be riding those wheels...try these instead". Comments from everyone on here have made me a lot smarter consumer and I'm certain that my new toy will be rolling flawlessly very soon. Maybe I'll chime back in again after I decide which wheels to purchase and install.


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## tlg

hrider614 said:


> I feel like a fool now for purchasing the Mavic wheels with such a low spoke count....I guess I was blinded by the big brand name marketing and kind words from individuals in the industry.


Don't feel like a fool. The marketing and "cool" factor works really well at convincing people.



> Now I'm questioning why *SOMEBODY* (anybody really) didn't say to me..."hey dude, you're way to big to be riding those wheels...try these instead".


There was a comment above after you couldn't reproduce the sounds on a trainer that it could be wheel flex. Wonder who that was? 



> Comments from everyone on here have made me a lot smarter consumer and I'm certain that my new toy will be rolling flawlessly very soon. Maybe I'll chime back in again after I decide which wheels to purchase and install.


Definitely keep us informed. I can strongly recommend bicyclewheelwarehouse. I've bought 2 wheelsets from them. They were very helpful in deciding on a which to get and probably sent a dozen emails back and forth. 

If you're Mavics are still in good shape, you could easily sell them on craigslist. They are a popular wheelset. You could probably get most of the money needed to buy one of the wheelsets listed above.


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## uncrx2003

This another great option if you don't have the patient for a custom build. A set for $670

Altamont alloy clincher - Boyd Cycling


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## mikerp

hrider614 said:


> Now I'm questioning why *SOMEBODY* (anybody really) didn't say to me..."hey dude, you're way to big to be riding those wheels...try these instead".


If you run that question by the wheel sub forum, you would have gotten that response. It happens pretty regularly.


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