# Is it possible to move handlebars 1" toward the rear ?



## g8keyper (Jun 30, 2008)

Hello to all,

After a professional fitting today I am a much happier and less pained rider; best $50 spent to date in biking.

Only one issue left (elbow pain developed today) the fitter said bike is too large for me at size 56cm and that I need to be on a 53cm. I can't afford that right now. Anyway, the bikes feels 90% great now with exception of the bars being too far forward which I think is causing the elbow pain. 

How do I move the handlebars toward the rear of the bike (toward my torso) about 1 inch?? 

Can you all recommend some after market parts to help with this if they exist? 

The LBS fitter tried to sell me some new handlebars today for $300, but that isn't in the budget. There has to be a less expensive way of doing this right?


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## Dr. Placebo (May 8, 2007)

how long is your existing stem and what is your handlebar diameter? bugger you're threaded. I was going to suggest a downhill stem.


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## g8keyper (Jun 30, 2008)

Hey Dr. Placebo,

The stem part is 3" long, but this is a complete welded piece that is attached to the tube going into the frame. (Length from the weld to the end of the stem.) I've attached some pictures. I looked all over the for a diameter, but it is not on the handlebars. (Maybe covered by tape.)

Thanks for the help.


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## MarvinK (Feb 12, 2002)

Take it to a bike shop... you just need a shorter stem. It might not be a full inch shorter, but they do make shorter stems.

It shouldn't cost more than $50-100, depending on what they do to shorten it. $300 is ridiculous.


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## California L33 (Jan 20, 2006)

My guess is for $300 he was going to set you up with a whole new threadless stem system with fork. The quill stem you've got is fairly obsolete, but you can still get new quill stems. You have to get the right size, so it's best to let a bike shop handle it for you. Here's a link to road bike quills you can get as short as 60mm, which is about half an inch less than what you have now (looks to be about 80mm). If you use a greater angle you effectively shorten them even more, though you're also raising the bars. 

http://www.universalcycles.com/shopping/product_details.php?id=7470

and more

http://www.google.com/products?q=quill+stem&btnG=Search+Products&hl=en

If you've got an oddball size handlebar, you may need a new one, but that should add $20 for a cheapo set, though there will be some labor moving over the parts and for new tape.


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## Touch0Gray (May 29, 2003)

a possible problem with shorter stem may be a compromise in handling. I could be wrong but an inch is an awful lot and the bike may get pretty twitchey.

That said, how long is it now...(center of bars to center of post)? and what is the stem-diameter where it goes into the headset?

An LBS should have boxes of old stuff that would work...I have one here that is 60 mm 22.2mm stem that you can have.


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## g8keyper (Jun 30, 2008)

*Maybe I should be asking Advantages to Threadless?*

Thanks to all for the helpful input. The current size is 80mm from center of bars to center of the post.

I've noted there are some quill conversion to threadless systems so my next question is: 

What is the advantage to going threadless?

Would the conversion to new carbon fork help to dampen pain in the elbows?


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## jupiterrn (Sep 22, 2006)

Get it set up properly first and then see how you do. There are advantages and disadvantages of both systems (quil vs. threadless). I would stick with what you have and go for the least expensive of the 2 options first and then see what happens. I wouldn't worry about the dampening effect of carbon just yet. If you are set up right I bet your elbow pain will get better or go away.


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## Touch0Gray (May 29, 2003)

out of curiosity...when you ride are you keeping your elbows bent?....or are you locking them....you need to keep them bent


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## g8keyper (Jun 30, 2008)

*How hard is it to replace this the adapter, stem?*

Hey Touch0Gray,

I do try to keep my elbows bent slightly, but the current issue is that the bars are too far forward so I tend to have to keep them too straight and not get as much shock absorption. That is my reasoning for wanting to move the bars a bit closer and a bit higher. 

I picked up a "Quill Adapter - threaded to thread-less" and a 60mm stem with a 110 degree upward bend. I am not sure that is the right terminology, but hopefully the point gets across. My bars fit the new stem so didn't have to buy bars.  $21.00 total out the door.

LBS said they are too busy until the end of next week to install so I brought everything home.

Do you all think I can replace this stuff myself? I am mechanically inclined; they said to bring it in because they would re-fit me for an additional $50.00. 

I have the bar tape and allen wrenches; can't imagine it would be too hard to loosen the Shimano 105 shifters and re-tape....? I am looking for instructions here on the forum now.

Thanks so much sir.
Cheers!!!


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## Touch0Gray (May 29, 2003)

ok, does the adapter have a new "straight quill" (no stem for the bars) and a series of shims?
if yes, you are all set. loosen the hex at the top of your existing stem and pull it out...(straight up). Slide the new one in and tighten at the correct height. (don't cut it yet)put the appropriate shims on and snug down the new threadless stem. Put the bars on the new stem and put the shifters back on the bars..at this point nothing is tightened totally or cut.This new setup will bring the bars back about 3/4 of an inch and you will be able to get them up higher.Fiddle with the height until you think it is where you want it and tighten stuff. DON'T cut the straight part of the quill yet if it is too long. Use electrcal or strapping tape to secure cables if necessary but don't re-wrap yet. ride it around and see what you think...THEN wrap it after it is set up.

good luck, ant other questions just shout......we are glad to see new riders!

edit (there may be NO cutting required)


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## g8keyper (Jun 30, 2008)

Ok, 

I am not sure what you are saying in terms of cutting the adapter so I've attached a photo. I don't think I have to cut it; just drop it in place with the stem. (probably keeping it loose enough to adjust until everything feels right) I am going to loosed the shifters enough to slide them off the bar, slide the old quill stem off the bar, and put the bar on the new stem. 

Then I'll do the electrical tape and test ride for fit as you stated. The scary thing is adding the tape to the bar so I'll read a few threads here before trying it.

You all are golden thanks for the help. 

Added pictures for further illustration since I am not knowledgeable with terminology.


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## Touch0Gray (May 29, 2003)

ok, it's different than the adapter that actually came on my bike..... looks good...does the cap come off?....so the stem can slip over the top?...remember the stem itself can be flipped over, to angle up or down..


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## California L33 (Jan 20, 2006)

g8keyper said:


> Ok,
> 
> I am not sure what you are saying in terms of cutting the adapter so I've attached a photo. I don't think I have to cut it; just drop it in place with the stem. (probably keeping it loose enough to adjust until everything feels right) I am going to loosed the shifters enough to slide them off the bar, slide the old quill stem off the bar, and put the bar on the new stem.
> 
> ...


Yes, read some threads. With the photo of the adapter I don't think you have to cut anything. The Park Tool web site may even have a 'how to' on this. If everything is the right size you're set- just make sure it is all tight before you test ride it. Handlebars are nothing to be messed with. If they suddenly move you can fall. There should be a number stamped on your bars and on the adapter stem. The only reason I mention being really sure is that there are some 'close' sizes- 26.0mm and 25.4mm, for instance, for bar sizes. A 25.4mm bar will clamp into a 26mm stem, but it won't hold tight.


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## g8keyper (Jun 30, 2008)

*Update...*

I am smiling ear to ear as I have almost completed this project with all of your help.

California L33 - I have checked this bar from end to end and there is not a size on it anywhere; this is the info on the bar:

"Sake Custom"
"SR"
"Modolo Patent"
"Anatomic Bend"
"GMB 201"
"W410"
"91B"

The stem doesn't close completely around the bar, but it's extremely tight as the bar is a tad larger diameter. You can see a bit of a gap in the stem of about 1/8 inch. I am actually afraid of crushing the bar if I over-tighten.

Everything tightened went for a test ride about 5 miles; everything feels much better. My arms bend naturally now and my posture is naturally straight neck to back to hips. The majority of my weight is on the seat and my hands feel less pressure on the bar. Also, before when I went from hoods to drops I couldn't reach the brakes where as now I can easily. This made a drastic difference!!

All I have left is to tape it now so I have to read how to over dinner. 

Thanks again ... some updated pictures below.


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## Touch0Gray (May 29, 2003)

looks good, keep in mind that if you want to rotate the bars, all you need to do it loosen a screw or two. My personal preference is to have the bottom of the drops nearly level with the ground......if you do that it would pull the hoods forward, and hence further away again...

just make sure is is comfy before you wrap it.....doesn't have to be tonight


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## g8keyper (Jun 30, 2008)

Hey Touch0Grey,

I was actually thinking about wrapping it with old tape just for a few days of long distance test riding and adjusting before applying new tape. (Plus it will be good practice LOL 

The adapter / conversion quill stem doesn't have a removable head; instead you simply slip the long quill stem into the regular stem and tighten bolts to hold the regular stem to the quill stem. LOL that sounds so messed up!! I am a little afraid of it sliding down, but I've tightened the dickens out of it...

I'll take it to the LBS one more time in the morning and ask if they would do a free quick fitting since I paid for my fitting 48 hours ago. If so, I'll be good to go ... I don't mind tossing them a $20.00 bill for 15 minutes of work, but just don't want to pay another $50.00; thought they said I had a 30 day period to come back, but guess not. I'll visit with the owner tomorrow who I am pretty sure had mentioned I could come back for another setting change once I rode a while as part of the sales pitch.


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## Touch0Gray (May 29, 2003)

yeah I would ride it for a while before I PAID 50 bucks for another fitting...if they got the seat and pedals right, the rest is easy....you can do it yourself.....I am not a big believer in someone else fitting me, I know enough to know what feels right....It must work I can stay in the saddle for 60 miles plus with no pain anywhere...riding is NOT the same as sitting on a bike on the stand....


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## California L33 (Jan 20, 2006)

g8keyper said:


> I am smiling ear to ear as I have almost completed this project with all of your help.
> 
> California L33 - I have checked this bar from end to end and there is not a size on it anywhere; this is the info on the bar:
> 
> ...


The bar clamp _looks_ about right. As long as the curve of the clamp follows the curve of the bars exactly (even if there's a gap when it closes- actually there has to be a gap when it closes) you should be OK. The clamp has to grip along the entire surface of the bar _where it touches_, though it won't grab the entire surface of the bar if you count the small gap.

The only thing that concerns me a little is the quill height. Does the new quill have a minimum insertion mark like the old one? And if so, have you inserted past that minimum? (I hate to keep bringing up marks, but most of it is marked, and marked for a reason). I ask because it doesn't look like there's a whole lot of quill down in that steering tube. 

The four tests I know of to test handlebars are-

1) Do they rotate smoothly without the slightest hitch or catch?

2) Stand in front of the bike. Grip the wheel with your legs. Turn the handlebar left and right as hard as you can. They shouldn't slip at all.

3) Sit on the bike, have someone hold you upright, and lean as hard as you can on the handlebars drops. They shouldn't rotate at all.

4) Are there any gaps anywhere now that there weren't before? 

Oh, and last thing, did you grease all the bolts before you tightened them? I know it seems counter productive to grease them (grease makes things slippery) but greasing the threads makes bolts work correctly, staying tight by stretching the bolt's threads against the tapped hole's threads. Without it the 'tightening' you feel can just be the friction of rough threads. (It also helps to get the bolts out later). Naturally you only grease the actual threads, making sure not to get any on the clamping surfaces.


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## California L33 (Jan 20, 2006)

g8keyper said:


> I am smiling ear to ear as I have almost completed this project with all of your help.
> 
> California L33 - I have checked this bar from end to end and there is not a size on it anywhere; this is the info on the bar:
> 
> ...


I know I mentioned it in my previous message, but this is so important I wanted to give it it's own message. In looking at that photo of the installed bars (in comparison to the parts not installed) it really looks like maybe you don't have enough quill in the steering tube. Only you know for sure how deep it is, but you do see the way that thing works, right? The offset plug works by providing clamping as the bolt on top is turned. To clamp it has to have both the plug and a fair amount of quill in the steering tube. If the whole plug is in, and just a bit of the quill, you could be playing with fire. I hate to keep drumming the point, but if you look at that old quill you'll see a mark- a line drawn horizontally along the quill. That's telling you that mark has to be down in the steering tube. If you can see it the quill won't grip correctly. Does your knew one have a similar mark?


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## wim (Feb 28, 2005)

*Looks frightening to me.*

Completely agree with the previous poster—that adapter looks like it's way too high and just barely hanging on. Don't ride the bike until you get that sorted out. You may have to live with the fact that with a _properly inserted _quill adapter, your bars will be lower than they were with your old quill stem.


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## g8keyper (Jun 30, 2008)

California L33 said:


> The bar clamp _looks_ about right. As long as the curve of the clamp follows the curve of the bars exactly (even if there's a gap when it closes- actually there has to be a gap when it closes) you should be OK. The clamp has to grip along the entire surface of the bar _where it touches_, though it won't grab the entire surface of the bar if you count the small gap.
> 
> The only thing that concerns me a little is the quill height. Does the new quill have a minimum insertion mark like the old one? And if so, have you inserted past that minimum? (I hate to keep bringing up marks, but most of it is marked, and marked for a reason). I ask because it doesn't look like there's a whole lot of quill down in that steering tube.
> 
> ...


Hey California L33,

First of all I want to say Thank You for having kept me from potential danger; the quill adapter was too high. The marks on the quill adapter were about 3/4 of an inch above the frame leaving about 2.5 inches inside the frame. Now that the marks are just below the frame there are about 3.25 inches inside the frame.

I'm sorry for posting so many photos, but as long as safety is ensured I would rather be safe and post then take a chance.

I don't mind loosing the height at all as my main concern was moving the bars closer to me and the new stem achieved that goal. 

I have gone by your criteria above #s 1-4 and pass those test. I can lean on the bars with all of my body weight (189lbs) and they don't move; gripped the front tire with my legs and push till my arms shake in either direction with zero play, the bars move smoothly.

As far as whether there are any gaps that weren't there before; yes, the gaps where the stem closes around the bar. I've attached photos of the stem housing all the way around the bar. These gap are the only gaps to speak of and they measure about 1/8th inch on either side of the housing. The original quill had no gaps, but were on a factory bar as well.

The screws were pre-greased and I wondered why, but guess Bontrager people and experienced people like yourself think of those things. I was clueless so thanks again. 

I also leaned with all my weight on the brake shifters to ensure they didn't move. 

Headed to LBS this morning to ask if they will fit me one more time at minimal / no charge.

YOU ARE ALL GOLDEN!!! Many Thanks! :thumbsup: 

Cheers!!


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## breakaway (Jun 15, 2008)

Cinelli used to make one of these. But that was like back in the 50's i think

https://img137.imageshack.us/img137/4182/cinelliadjustablestemgl5.jpg


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## Touch0Gray (May 29, 2003)

much better.....................If that doesn't work for you, the offer for the stem I have is still opened...it is a 60 as well, but with the angle on the top may well put the bars exactly where they are now.

post one more picture of the bike from the side so we can see the saddle to bar drop distance if you would.


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## g8keyper (Jun 30, 2008)

*Completed Project Pictures*

Hello to all, 

Per request I've added these last few pictures of the completed project and a picture to show the drop from the saddle to the bars; which is none existent. lol ... as I've stated before this is my first bike and I wasn't as concerned with size as the price in order to experience the sport before putting down some serious cash.

I've been told by my LBS fitter the bike is at it's limit of "small" and that the frame is just too big for me. I agree, but for now it's comfortable and I've only put $72.00 out of pocket to get to the point that I can ride 30 miles with little to no pain very comfortably. The fitter did say that a 56 frame today is much larger than a 56 frame when this bike was made in reference to the Top Tube Length. He said this bike is like the size of a Compact 55 today.

I put a small rod across the shifters with a level to make sure they were even and taped it up this afternoon. 

If all goes well I'll be looking for a used Trek Madone 5.2 size 53 for Christmas or this time next year.

Once again thanks for all the great input.

EDIT: Oh yeah, this was my first time to do anything to a bike so I am a very happy Marine!!

:thumbsup:


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## Touch0Gray (May 29, 2003)

looks good to me...bars appear to be a bit above the saddle even....you could probably even drop it later if you want to. (either by sliding the stem extension down OR flipping the stem....or both.
Now get off the computer and ride!


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## California L33 (Jan 20, 2006)

g8keyper said:


> Hey California L33,
> 
> First of all I want to say Thank You for having kept me from potential danger; the quill adapter was too high. The marks on the quill adapter were about 3/4 of an inch above the frame leaving about 2.5 inches inside the frame. Now that the marks are just below the frame there are about 3.25 inches inside the frame.
> 
> ...


It definitely looks better, but it's difficult for me to tell exactly. The one thing to consider is that the marks have nothing to do with the frame. They have to do with the steering tube. Did the quill adapter come with instructions? If not, do they have a web site? 

Why is this important if it passes all the tests? Because you can't test for the emergency. As strong as you are, when you hit that deep pothole at 30 MPH and pinch flat, possibly crack a wheel if you're unlucky, and swear you've just driven your saddle into you pelvis, it's going to put more force on the handlebars than you can just leaning on them. The last thing you want to have happen is to be holding a set of handlebars attached to the bike with nothing but cables like George Hincapie in Paris-Roubaix a couple of years ago. He did better than I thought anyone could in that situation, but it was still a spectacular crash, and the broken bones took him out for half the season. 

So if you're the least bit unsure take it to the LBS and let them inspect it for you. 

Also, in your last set of pictures it looks like you could lower your bars a bit anyway, if not for safety, just to give you a better position on the bike. I know the fit is a compromise and you can't afford to upgrade right now, but you don't see a lot of bars over saddles these days. Competition bikes have insane drops. You don't need to do that, but a lot of folks are comfortable with bar tops and saddles at nearly the same level.


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## g8keyper (Jun 30, 2008)

Hey California L33,

Went to the LBS yesterday and they rechecked & torqued everything for me so I feel much better now. I asked them how much torque they use so I could get a torque wrench, but the guy said "it's better you just bring it in and let us do it for $20.00 for your safety." ... oh well. I kind of agree, but I do want to learn to do this stuff myself because $20.00 a pop is getting expensive and most the time it's a 3 minute job for $20.00!

They also charged me $25.00 to true the back tire and it took them all of 5 minutes. I asked them what size trueing tools I needed and watched them closely to learn how to true the tire, but again they gave me the same response; "better to let us do it for $20-25.00 for safety reasons" 

I do think I want to lower my bars all the way down and the LBS looked at the quill stem and said it was properly setup and that I could drop it more if so desired. There wasn't any paperwork with the unit which was in a clear plastic bag and probably used because they sold me the stem and added a few dollars for the adapter.

I road another 30 miles yesterday and have to say wow it was very comfortable, but I do want a little more aggressive position so the bars will go down a bit after a few more rides.


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