# best value in an off--the-shelf fixie?



## likeguymontag

I'm looking for a fixie/ss for commuting to school this fall because of the simplicity of being gearless and because I'm hoping that a gearless bike with bolt-on wheels will be less of a theft target. (If I'm worried about theft, I know that the best idea is to get a $30 yard sale special, but I can't bring myself to do that.)

What I'm looking for, then, is the best value in off-the-shelf fixies. Ideally, I'd want something with durable wheels especially, durable everything else, a frame that doesn't suck, and a front brake. I'm looking for the best value, not necessarily the cheapest bike. As I see it, I've got these options:

Windsor - The Hour - ~$400 on ebay
Specialized - Langster - $410 locally
Bianchi - Pista - $550 locally?
KHS - Flite - $600-650?
Fuji - Track - $600?

I guess the Langster is looking like the best value, right? The components that the alternatives use aren't significantly better, are they?

Of course, there's always building my own, but I know that I'd eat the difference in shipping costs.
-Steve


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## mr_e

*My two*

I like the KHS and the Pista. Both have long track records. Both have prety solid frames. The Pista is chrome, which is nice, and the Flight has hands down the best crank/chainring/cog combo in the price range.


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## Dropped

I love my Langster -- I use it as a commuting bike and find it works great for that. The Pista is a screaming deal, too, and the chrome finish is beautiful. I would have gone for the Pista, but after adding a front brake it would have been $100+ more than the Langster and I was on a tight budget.


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## velodoom

i was just talking with the guys at my local shop about the langsters - they decided not to deal them (even though they're right next to the local velodrome) because the dropouts are not reinforced. they are just aluminum, which the axle nuts will destroy after a year or two if you change wheels alot (like when you race at the velodrome). you might want to keep that in mind.


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## FixedPip

*Khs*

By far the best of these. Good frame, great crankset. Rather like the new blue colour.

Fuji is ok but doesn't offer much over the Bianchi.

I would say pick from the Bianchi and the KHS. Neither of which though has a particularly stellar wheelset.

Also IRO make cheap fixies (http://www.irocycle.com), they're a small NYC company.


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## euro-trash

I agree about the wheelset, but my Pisa is 3 years old and I ride it everyday and have had no problems. It's not fancy but it works. I highly recommend the Bianchi. 



FixedPip said:


> By far the best of these. Good frame, great crankset. Rather like the new blue colour.
> 
> Fuji is ok but doesn't offer much over the Bianchi.
> 
> I would say pick from the Bianchi and the KHS. Neither of which though has a particularly stellar wheelset.
> 
> Also IRO make cheap fixies (http://www.irocycle.com), they're a small NYC company.


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## girishji

Windsor and Fuji are the same bike, just different decals. I am a big fan of early fuji's that were make in Japan. But the track bike is made in china and workmanship is quite poor compared to other bikes you have listed. But still worth test riding. Dealers sometimes have the last year's model (silver) so check it out. The best way to chose is to ride and decide for yourself.
KHS has limited sizes and there is big gap between the 4 sizes they have.
Bianchi's chrome finish is prone to chipping and rusting. Chrome is not as good as paint when it comes to preventing rust. I have heard mixed openions about its looks. People either love it or hate it as being gaudy.
Specialized is the best value by far. You will be lucky if you can get one since they have run out of their stock and the next shipment is due in august. In boston area they are pretty hard to find since there is so much demand. Also, I would not worry about aluminum dropouts being eaten up by track bolts. That is another myth spread by bike shop half wits. When you tighten the track nut the serration makes indentation into aluminum dropouts. A small amount of metal gets shifted around the indentation, but metal does not fall off or go anywhere. This process happens in steel dropouts as well. Anyway, if you like the aesthetic of specialized with sloping top tube and the like, then atleast test ride it.

There is another aspect you have to think about and that is the geometry, especially the head tube angle and fork rake. These affect handling. Fuji and specialized are more like road bikes but KHS and Bianchi have track geometry.

I looked into all the above models you have listed but none caught my fancy. I built a IRO jamie roy and I am quite happy. The only gripe I have is the aesthetics. I like the steel bikes better. If you want to buy my jamie roy (56cm, built with top notch components) shoot me a private message. I will send you pics etc.


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## velodoom

*disagree about dropout "myth"*



girishji said:


> Specialized is the best value by far. You will be lucky if you can get one since they have run out of their stock and the next shipment is due in august. In boston area they are pretty hard to find since there is so much demand. Also, I would not worry about aluminum dropouts being eaten up by track bolts. That is another myth spread by bike shop half wits. When you tighten the track nut the serration makes indentation into aluminum dropouts. A small amount of metal gets shifted around the indentation, but metal does not fall off or go anywhere. This process happens in steel dropouts as well.


I really disagree that this opinion is a "myth spread by bike shop half wits" - the "half wits" in question are the official shop for Marty Nothstein (multiple world keirin champion etc.) and were official Mavic master mechanics at the Atlanta Olympic games. I would put their knowledge of track equipment up against anyone - they see more track equipment used by elite national and international talent than most anywhere in the states.

The dropout problem is significant - but only if you change your rear wheel frequently. I'm sure that the bike will be fine for most since once you find a gear that works you won't be changing it frequently except to fix flats etc. But as a "track" bike, where you often change gears per event multiple times a racing night, bare aluminum dropouts are a bad idea. This is why you find replaceable inserts (of a harder material) in most serious aluminum track frames - look at colnago, merckx, and even fuji. It is not that the metal falls off or go anywhere - after a while the dropout gets mangled in the region of frequent tightening to the point where the wheel won't be aligned in the frame. I had this happen to an early 90's cannondale mtn bike. Sure it happens in steel as well (but not to a detrimental level), but aluminum is too soft a material for such a high wear application (if you expect mroe than a few seasons use).

All that said - I like the specialized best for the price, I just wouldn't buy it expecting lifelong use or to race it on the track for more than a few seasons.


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## girishji

velodoom said:


> I really disagree that this opinion is a "myth spread by bike shop half wits" - the "half wits" in question are the official shop for Marty Nothstein (multiple world keirin champion etc.) and were official Mavic master mechanics at the Atlanta Olympic games. I would put their knowledge of track equipment up against anyone - they see more track equipment used by elite national and international talent than most anywhere in the states.
> 
> The dropout problem is significant - but only if you change your rear wheel frequently. I'm sure that the bike will be fine for most since once you find a gear that works you won't be changing it frequently except to fix flats etc. But as a "track" bike, where you often change gears per event multiple times a racing night, bare aluminum dropouts are a bad idea. This is why you find replaceable inserts (of a harder material) in most serious aluminum track frames - look at colnago, merckx, and even fuji. It is not that the metal falls off or go anywhere - after a while the dropout gets mangled in the region of frequent tightening to the point where the wheel won't be aligned in the frame. I had this happen to an early 90's cannondale mtn bike. Sure it happens in steel as well (but not to a detrimental level), but aluminum is too soft a material for such a high wear application (if you expect mroe than a few seasons use).
> 
> All that said - I like the specialized best for the price, I just wouldn't buy it expecting lifelong use or to race it on the track for more than a few seasons.


I agree and disagree. I disagree because you are referring to an extreme and irrelevent example. The original poster is looking for a fixie to commute to school, not a serious track racer who will be replacing cogs multiple times in a event. So aluminum dropouts are not an issue. If a shophead advices against a bike with aluminum dropouts for a customer like our original poster, then the shop-head is a half-wit, period.

Further, there are two things to consider. When a non-racer uses a track bike then he/she is not likely to change the cog often. So, when they fix a flat on the rear tire the axle gets placed in the same spot as before. Even if there is indentation on the dropouts, it does not affect the alignment since the relative postion of the tracknut on the dropout does not change. On the other hand, (non-stainless) steel dropouts are likely to rust where paint chips off due to tracknuts.

Secondly, track nut indentation is also an issue on steel dropouts if one overtightens the track nut. That is why we have tensioner/tuggnut. In fact MKS makes one that is NJS certified, which is used primarily on steel frames. If one is paranoid about track nuts harming their aluminum dropouts, then tuggnut/tensioners are an option.

In summary, I would not discourage anyone from getting a bike with alumimum dropouts for general use. I hope you agree. For serious racers...that is a different subject.


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## evAn

*Bianchi*

we had this same coversation with some buds.
PISTA! for the price its such a classy looking ride with not so bad components for a entry track bike.


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## Cerddwyr

velodoom said:


> i was just talking with the guys at my local shop about the langsters - they decided not to deal them (even though they're right next to the local velodrome) because the dropouts are not reinforced. they are just aluminum, which the axle nuts will destroy after a year or two if you change wheels alot (like when you race at the velodrome). you might want to keep that in mind.


If you are changing a Langster wheel a lot, you can always get a set of BMX chain tensioners and some new nuts that don't have the intergral rotating washer bit. With a chain tensioner on both sides, the nut isn't put on as tight, and it is biting down on a $10 pair of steel chain tensioners anyway, not the aluminum frame. Even with just one tensioner on the drive side, you don't have to tighten the nuts nearly as much. 

Gordon


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## khill

*Check out IRO*

I'd also recommend looking at the two fixed gears available from IRO Cycle. They both fall into the price range of your other choices and seem to get high praise from those who own them.

I'm looking into getting one myself.

IRO Cycles 

- khill


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## meat tooth paste

I think the steel IRO bike is a off the shelf buy at $550. It's got road geometry if you plan on riding this as just a fun bike or a trainer on the streets.
https://www.irocycle.com/fixedgearandsinglespeedbikeframesfromirocycleinc/id78.html









Personally, I went with the Bianchi Pista. I found that track geometry on the frame a non issue and hardly notice any difference. There is toe overlap on some frame though, so test ride it to make you are cool with. It's a non issue to me, but to some it may be one. Mine was $490 before taxes. I ride mine in the city as a commuter and for fun.


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## MarkG2

*How about Milwaukee Bicycle Company?*

The frame is made by Waterford. Thats worth a couple of points. It has road geometery and is a nice riding bike. The headbadge however is the coolest.Priced complete at 750


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## PdxMark

MarkG2 said:


> The frame is made by Waterford. Thats worth a couple of points. It has road geometery and is a nice riding bike. The headbadge however is the coolest.Priced complete at 750


Hmmm... that might be my new favorite alternative to my Pista...


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## T-shirt

*likeguymontag,

Here's another one on Ebay, Mercier track bike $347 + $40 shipping, comes in four sizes. I don't know anything about it; the merchant claims that the msrp is $795. They don't have it listed yet on the actual Mercier site. ** 

Here is the Milwaukee Bikes "The Orange One" head badge that MarkG2 mentioned (my current wallpaper). Here's where to get one, Ben's Cycle. I would love on myself. I'm not sure that the 53cm is small enough; my tape measure is getting a workout.

Good luck,
Tshirt*


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## meat tooth paste

*How this $350 Mercier*

Found this $347 Buy It Now special on eBay.

New and avail in 4 sizes according to the auction:

https://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=7298&item=7124936407&rd=1


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## FixedPip

*Are Mercier and Windsor related?*

Seems that this bike and the new Windsor hour are related somehow.

The website of both bike 'companies' are pretty similar in design and also have no details about the physical presence of the company. You can onky contact them through email.

http://www.cyclesmercier.com
http://www.windsorbicycles.com 

Someone is obviously getting this made in Taiwan and just importing them. I'm just curious if anyone knows anything about the resurrection of either of these marks etc? 

Also the Mercier frame looks a lot like the KHS track frame, the Windsor hour is the same as the basic Fuji track. I assume this is just all coming from one or two manufacturers who then just rebadge them as needed.

I'm always curious about this stuff.


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## Henry Chinaski

MarkG2 said:


> The frame is made by Waterford. Thats worth a couple of points. It has road geometery and is a nice riding bike. The headbadge however is the coolest.Priced complete at 750


I'm impressed how cheap that is for a Waterford-built frame. Too bad they couldn't do a fork, too. The Surly fork kind of hurts the appeal a bit. I would seriously consider getting one if it came with a matching orange Waterford-built fork. Love the color...


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## meat tooth paste

Henry Chinaski said:


> I'm impressed how cheap that is for a Waterford-built frame. Too bad they couldn't do a fork, too. The Surly fork kind of hurts the appeal a bit. I would seriously consider getting one if it came with a matching orange Waterford-built fork. Love the color...


I agree with the fork comment. A nice orange fork would look fantabulous. I think a chrome finish fork is a good alternative too to compliment the art deco style decals.

Something like this would look sweet on the that frame...


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## Mattman

*I got it, here's the after shot*



meat tooth paste said:


> Found this $347 Buy It Now special on eBay.
> 
> New and avail in 4 sizes according to the auction:


I bought one, overall a nice bike and a great deal, I swapped a few parts right away as I had a picture in my mind of the bike I wanted..... it looked pretty much like this.

The bike really get a lot of looks and positive comments, more than it should at this price


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## Cerddwyr

Mattman said:


> I bought one, overall a nice bike and a great deal, I swapped a few parts right away as I had a picture in my mind of the bike I wanted..... it looked pretty much like this.
> 
> The bike really get a lot of looks and positive comments, more than it should at this price


Pretty bike. I envy you the lack of rear brake cable stops. When/if you are ready to go front brake only the clean lines of the top tube will really stand out.

Best,
Gordon


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## meat tooth paste

Nice! I like the oldskool look. I am glad Mercier kept it simple instead of putting on a garish decal pattern like bike companies do.

I think a nice set of oldskool metal cable clamps would add to the retro look and solve the drooping cable on the top tube.


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## D-Town

*Compare Milwaukee Orange One vs. IRO Mark V*

Can anyone speak to the complete build on the Milwaukee Orange One vs. the IRO Mark V? I'm leaning toward the Orange One but would like to hear anyone's thoughts on the overall value of either of these as complete builds. The two web sites' info is below. Thanks...


Milwaukee Orange One Complete bike specs:
Handlebar - Dimension
Stem - Dimension
Tape - Cork - dark blue
Headset - Aheadset - cartridge bearing
Fork - Surly Pacer
Brakes - Tektro 521A - longreach
Brake Levers - Shimano Exage
Seatpost - Dimension
Saddle - WTB SST - black leather
Crank - FMF w/110mm boltcircle
Bottombracket - TH Industries Power Pro - ISIS spline
Chainring - AC Racing MiniHoleShot - 40, 42 or 44t
Chain - ACS 3/32"
Cog - Shimano Dura Ace 13, 14, 15 or 16t
Lockring - Shimano Dura Ace
Hubs - Formula sealed bearing
Rims - Alex DV-15
Spokes - Wheelsmith - 14g stainless steel
Tires - Specialized AllCondition 700x28

Optional - Freewheel - Shimano 16, 17 or 18t instead of cog &
lockring
Since we assemble these bikes ourselves, we can build up with any parts you
wish. Price varies with selected parts.

IRO MARK V:
Crank.............IRO 130BCD with alloy 46 tooth ring
Bottom Bracket.......68X110
Chain......................Sram PC-48
Cog........................Soma Cog
Lock Ring...............IRO Lock Ring
Headset.................FSA Orbit Threadless
Stem.....................IRO Stem
Handle Bars...........IRO Alloy
Seat Post...............IRO Alloy 72.2
Seat......................Generic
Wheels..................IRO Fixed Gear Wheels


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## blackhat

*milwaukee*

I know nothing about the IRO frame, never seen/ridden one. However, I really like that milwaukee frame. I was in the city for which it's named last month and rode down to Bens to have a look. They had one built up, with pretty much the parts you listed, and a bunch of naked frames (you can get it sans decals). the only difference from your list to the build I saw was the salesguy said they ran out of surly forks so I think they're using Interloc forks at the moment. its a great looking bike though, If I didnt have a steamroller Id be all over that. its 'cross-able too, it takes almost as wide a tire as my surly. the wrench that was there when I stopped in races cross on his.


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## nimai

*soma build*

i know its a little off the subject, but does any one have experience with a stock soma rush build. i just posted a new thread if you want to reply there.


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## D-Town

*Thanks*



blackhat said:


> I know nothing about the IRO frame, never seen/ridden one. However, I really like that milwaukee frame. I was in the city for which it's named last month and rode down to Bens to have a look. They had one built up, with pretty much the parts you listed, and a bunch of naked frames (you can get it sans decals). the only difference from your list to the build I saw was the salesguy said they ran out of surly forks so I think they're using Interloc forks at the moment. its a great looking bike though, If I didnt have a steamroller Id be all over that. its 'cross-able too, it takes almost as wide a tire as my surly. the wrench that was there when I stopped in races cross on his.


It's nice to hear from someone that's seen on of these in the flesh - there's not a lot of info on these since they are fairly new to the market. Thanks for the feedback. Unless I find another deal in the meantime, I'm thinking on Orange One is in the cards...


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