# Hutchinson tubeless cyclocross tires



## morganfletcher (Oct 18, 2004)

https://www.cyclingnews.com/tech/20...robike07/eurobike073/Hutchinson_Bulldog_cross


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## Lord Taipan (Aug 10, 2006)

I like it and the idea of using them for road tubeless. Question is how much better would it be than using a Stan's Rim and having the wider variety of CX tires out there than one tire with the Hutchinson?


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## Sixty Fiver (Jul 7, 2007)

I have some down at the shop and was thinking of testing them out although that would mean removing my Schwalbes which I have been utterly thrilled with since day 1.

If I pul the triggeron these I'll post a review.


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## skinny jay (Nov 27, 2006)

I just bought the piranha cross, and although they're not labeled as "tubeless ready" when I was installing them, I figured I'd play around a bit since I have kysrium elites. Anyway, I took off my old tires and threw a tubeless valve in there, put the hutchinsons on and aired them up with the compressor and heard that delightful "pop" of a tubeless tire seating onto the rim. I was pretty surprised because my last tubeless attempt on those wheels involved a lot of stan's and frustration and a tire getting blown off the rim. I was thinking about throwing some sealant in there and giving them a whirl but haven't had the time. Maybe tomorrow I'll give it a try and report back.


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## dyg2001 (Sep 23, 2004)

morganfletcher said:


> https://www.cyclingnews.com/tech/20...robike07/eurobike073/Hutchinson_Bulldog_cross


Cool. I wonder how low you can go PSI wise.


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## seahuston (Sep 2, 2005)

I have always wondered that, could you go tubeless on mavic rims as there are no spoke holes, at least for low, cyclocross pressures


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## J-K (Nov 5, 2006)

Cross is traditional, especially in Europe, so you will not see world cup riders turning to "no sealant"-tubeless systems like UST for mountainbike. However: If more manufacturers start offering wheels (now only Shimano offers 1 tubeless wheelset) and more tires will be developed (Michelin usually follows quickly), this system is very hard to beat for anyone who is not a pro with 20 tubular wheelsets.

It will not be much different from UST for mountainbikes. That means: You can safely ride really low pressures without risk of punctures. Rolling resistance is really low, system weight is on par with tire+tube combinations and most importantly: No more messing about with glue.

The only advantage tubulars can give you is the use of lightweight carbon rims. Sealant based systems could offer a little less rolling resistance and weight, but are more of a hassle to mount and have a risk of "burping". Like I said: This will be a very good system for a lot of riders. Let's just hope some euro pro adopts it, wins with it, and I guess it will take off.


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## Kram (Jan 28, 2004)

Maxxis (I believe) is offering road tires for the Shimano wheelset. Let's hope there's a cross tire in the works, too.


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## Unoveloce (Apr 13, 2005)

*you won't see any one running this system*

In the Pro ranks.

"The only advantage tubulars can give you is the use of lightweight carbon rims. Sealant based systems could offer a little less rolling resistance and weight, but are more of a hassle to mount and have a risk of "burping". Like I said: This will be a very good system for a lot of riders. Let's just hope some euro pro adopts it, wins with it, and I guess it will take off"

If you think the only advantage tubulars have is carbon rims, your mistaken. First, no "tubeless" tire will have the supple casing of a silk or cotton tubbie. Supple equals traction and less rolling resitance. Second, from a racing perspective, a flatting tubbie allows you to ride back to the pits. A leaking "tubeless" lets you stop and look at you clicher rim before you start you're run back to the pits. Third, you have a very hard time dinging up a tubular rim mid race to where it won't still stick to the tire it's glued to, whereas a clicher rim can crush a brake track/tire bead an not only loose air in the tire, but not be able to brake for beans.

It looks like the cross racer of the future has to decide between a multiday process that mostly permanantly attaches a tire to the rim and guarrantees great performance if the conditions are right for the tire choosen, or the fifty fifty chance that his Stan's goop will seal up his tire and rim combo and he won't have to run down to the gas station seven times the night before his big race.


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## skinny jay (Nov 27, 2006)

*I know people have done it but...*



seahuston said:


> I have always wondered that, could you go tubeless on mavic rims as there are no spoke holes, at least for low, cyclocross pressures


while the mavic rims do lack spoke holes on the inside, they're a bit narrower than their ust mtb rims. Also, from what I can tell, the hook on the ksyrium isn't the same as a cross max or other tubeless rim, so there's not necessarily that mechanical bond. I tried a tubeless set up with some vittoria xg's and it didn't really work to well. Since the hutchinsons are actually designed to run tubeless, I'm sure the bead will help keep everything on better. 

I've just run them with tubes so far, but as a regular tire I really like them! I think one thing that is easy to forget is that some tires, even though they hook up better with lower air pressers, weren't necessarily designed around low air pressure. Well the hutch's definitely are! The recommended psi. is about 39 or so and they hook up great and I didn't pinch flat on our rocky AZ trails. With other tires, if I lowered the psi to anything that would give me worthwhile traction, it was flat city. These hook up great and I haven't had any pinches. I would say that they feel very sluggish on pavement, but really come alive when they're off. Probably not the best tire for a crit. disguised as a cx race!


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## welcomdmat (Jan 1, 1970)

I have been using the Shimano wheels with the Hutchinson tubeless tires on and off this season. I ran them at first with 110 psi and thought I would die in the turns -- 70 to 80 psi is the ticket with the road tires as Hutchinson told me later. Using the cross tires with Ksyrium clinchers will not seal up as well because the Shimano rims are made for the square-ish bead of the tubeless tires. Another thing that this square interface allows is for the tire and rim to hold together much better when the tire is flat. When the Hutchinson tire flats, the square bead combined with the slightly thicker sidewall allow you to ride on them "similarly" though not the same as a tubular. The nicest part of the setup is the wheelset which rolls so smoothly that any tires would feel good -- but they are of course 10 speed only (while my cross bike is DA 9).


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## Lord Taipan (Aug 10, 2006)

welcomdmat said:


> I have been using the Shimano wheels with the Hutchinson tubeless tires on and off this season. I ran them at first with 110 psi and thought I would die in the turns -- 70 to 80 psi is the ticket with the road tires as Hutchinson told me later. Using the cross tires with Ksyrium clinchers will not seal up as well because the Shimano rims are made for the square-ish bead of the tubeless tires. Another thing that this square interface allows is for the tire and rim to hold together much better when the tire is flat. When the Hutchinson tire flats, the square bead combined with the slightly thicker sidewall allow you to ride on them "similarly" though not the same as a tubular. The nicest part of the setup is the wheelset which rolls so smoothly that any tires would feel good -- but they are of course 10 speed only (while my cross bike is DA 9).


Check this out, Shimano is going to a new wheel for '08 and it will be backwards compatable to 9sp DA.
http://www.cyclingnews.com/tech.php?id=tech/2007/news/08-20


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## welcomdmat (Jan 1, 1970)

They look even better in person. Shimano has made these a bit flashier which should do nothing but help thier sales.


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## CDB (Oct 20, 2005)

I'd like to give these tubeless tires a try. Not sure I'd want to purchase a set of Dura Ace wheels though. Did I read somewhere that there will be either: 

A.) an Ultegra version of the ust wheels, or 
B.) that the rims will be available separately?

The ability to run low pressures (+/- 35-40 psi) and not have burping seems appealing, as does low pressures w/o multiple days of preparation and layers of glue. Anyone know the weight of these new tires? 

Currently, I know that some riders are experimenting with their own custom tubeless setups utilizing Stan's 29er rims to get an affordable tubeless bead to work with. The downside of this is that those Stan's rims are significantly wider (+/- 5mm), making wheel swaps at the brakes not so simple. Others (like myself) have experimented w/ converted tires and Mavic Ksyrium rims w/ varying levels of success. For now, that method doesn't seem to be a good strategy due to the catastrophic failures that have happened. 

The bead lock of the rim/tire seems to be the most important factor and it is only now emerging as a reliable option. Having a tire w/ a tubeless ready bead is the first big step in making this system more failsafe. Hopefully many others will follow in Hutchinson's, Stan's, and Shimano's footsteps!


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## welcomdmat (Jan 1, 1970)

Mavic has the rim and wheels ready to go, but they are collecting dust in some back room because they are not convinced that the setup is better than what is currently on the market. They are certainly payinig greater attention to the road market than the cyclocross market, so that is not to say that these tires don't have something to offer to the CX world. The number of mountain bikers that were running tubulars at the recent Fort Williams world cup may be even a greater tell tale sign of tubuless setups.


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## one_speed (Jun 30, 2003)

I'd stay away from the Dura Ace wheels. I had a pair a while back and friend has the current pair. Unless your pretty light, I'd avoid them. They look nice, but are like sponges, mushy. Really pretty soft, read 'not stiff'. 

Just a thought. The friend that has them is around 180 lbs and can't believe the difference between the D/A wheels and his Ksyriums or hand built wheels.


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## PeanutButterBreath (Dec 4, 2005)

Is it significant that CX riders would be looking to run the same pressure in a 32C tire that MTB riders are running in 2" plus tires? It seems like the skinnier tire has that much less room to tune the casing to function safely and handle properly at that low a pressure.


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## welcomdmat (Jan 1, 1970)

Fair enough PBB -- the only thing there is that alot more is demanded of the MTB tires versus the cross tires. With some of the climbs and descents that are put on a World Cup level XC course, I wouldn't want to ride them on any 32.


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