# Anorexia in the peleton



## incahoots (Jul 7, 2006)

I know these guys have enough issues but I was reading one of the other threads on how skinny George and Lance looked in "real life." It got me thinking because my wife is a dietician and she sees a lot college girls with eating disorders and nobody is under more pressure to be thin than cyclists. Does anyone have any source info or articles addressing this in pro cycling?


----------



## Mosovich (Feb 3, 2004)

*I could easily see that...*

happening. I got that way one year preparing for cross season. I lost 30lbs., but also alot of power. My wife told my parents and we had the family sit down and that was that.


----------



## bas (Jul 30, 2004)

incahoots said:


> I know these guys have enough issues but I was reading one of the other threads on how skinny George and Lance looked in "real life." It got me thinking because my wife is a dietician and she sees a lot college girls with eating disorders and nobody is under more pressure to be thin than cyclists. Does anyone have any source info or articles addressing this in pro cycling?



http://forums.roadbikereview.com/showthread.php?t=71692&highlight=janez


----------



## Retro Grouch (Apr 30, 2002)

Cycling News did a feature a few years ago.

http://www.cyclingnews.com/features/?id=2003/eatingdisorders1


----------



## brianmcg (Oct 12, 2002)

In this months "Runner's World" they did a story on Lance Armstrong in his preparation for the NYC Marathon. In the interview they talked about the difference between runners bodies and cyclists. He mentioned how there were many cyclists that never ate to lose weight. I was kinda shocked by that. I figured the shear amount of miles tended to make some of these guys so skinny.

They also asked him about his weight. He said he doesn't know how much he has gained but he has been eating a lot and doing a lot of upper body work. He said when he was training for the Tours he wouldn't even do a pushup, for fear he would gain too much upper body weight.

I guess thats why after a cyclist retires and actually has a normal bodyweight we all think they look "fat" and out of shape. Even though they are probably still leaner than we are and would kick our ass riding a unicycle.


----------



## Dwayne Barry (Feb 16, 2003)

brianmcg said:


> I figured the shear amount of miles tended to make some of these guys so skinny.


Yeah but it's not hard at all to eat what you've burned off. You figure the vast majority of training (even racing for pros) is done at a relatively moderate aerobic intensity. Maybe a pro is burning 800 or so calories, your average joe maybe 500-600 calories an hour. That's not that many fig newtons to replace what you've burned


----------



## R.Rice (Aug 23, 2004)

Dwayne Barry said:


> Yeah but it's not hard at all to eat what you've burned off. You figure the vast majority of training (even racing for pros) is done at a relatively moderate aerobic intensity. Maybe a pro is burning 800 or so calories, your average joe maybe 500-600 calories an hour. That's not that many fig newtons to replace what you've burned


I'm not sure what you are saying here.

Are you saying that a typical training ride for a pro only burns 800 calories?If so,I don't believe that.They may be a lot more effecient than us but most of those guys keep their training rides at 4 hours and up.Even if they were doing base mileage that would have to be 2k calories.Do this five times a week,factor in that their resting metabolism is probably really high and you have to eat a hell of a lot of food to replace what you have burned.


----------



## brianmcg (Oct 12, 2002)

I think he was talking per hour. A big mac and supersized fries and a 32oz coke could easily make up for a 4hr training ride at 800 calories per hour.


----------



## Dwayne Barry (Feb 16, 2003)

R.Rice said:


> I'm not sure what you are saying here.
> 
> Are you saying that a typical training ride for a pro only burns 800 calories?If so,I don't believe that.They may be a lot more effecient than us but most of those guys keep their training rides at 4 hours and up.Even if they were doing base mileage that would have to be 2k calories.Do this five times a week,factor in that their resting metabolism is probably really high and you have to eat a hell of a lot of food to replace what you have burned.


Just to disabuse one common myth, pros are not more efficient, they simply have a higher capacity to perform work. Thus, they probably burn more like 800 cal per hour, whereas a less accomplished cyclist burns 500 or so on an easy ride. Sure they ride a lot. My point was that even for a pro, eating enough to replace what you burn is easily accomplished. Not to mention, my experience has been that when training a lot, especially if it includes a good bit of intensity, you get real hungry.


----------



## tom_o (May 6, 2004)

I think w/ the widespread use of powermeters, pro's will be a lot less likely (if they were prone to it before) to eat to lose weight to the point where it might hinder/hurt performance - because w/ the powermeter, you can quantify any changes made on/off the bike and how it affects performance.


----------



## OnTheRivet (Sep 3, 2004)

incahoots said:


> I know these guys have enough issues but I was reading one of the other threads on how skinny George and Lance looked in "real life." It got me thinking because my wife is a dietician and she sees a lot college girls with eating disorders and nobody is under more pressure to be thin than cyclists. Does anyone have any source info or articles addressing this in pro cycling?



Seems counterintuitive. Wouldn't anorexia make someone weak and ill, doesn't sound like something a pro cyclist would have much use for. Maybe they obsess about body weight a little but it's pretty clear when they retire most have no problem getting up to normal weight, which incidentally isn't over 200lbs if your under 6'2". Seems like a strange and insignificant thing to worry about in a country where 1 in 3 is obese and our health care system in crumbling because of it.


----------



## brianmcg (Oct 12, 2002)

OnTheRivet said:


> Seems like a strange and insignificant thing to worry about in a country where 1 in 3 is obese and our health care system in crumbling because of it.



WOW. What country do you live in?


----------



## Noël1 (Mar 2, 2006)

brianmcg said:


> WOW. What country do you live in?


Sounds like the U.S. to me.


----------



## Dwayne Barry (Feb 16, 2003)

Tomakit said:


> I think w/ the widespread use of powermeters, pro's will be a lot less likely (if they were prone to it before) to eat to lose weight to the point where it might hinder/hurt performance - because w/ the powermeter, you can quantify any changes made on/off the bike and how it affects performance.



I guess it all depends on how one defines anorexia. Most pro's (elite endurance athletes in general) are incredibly lean. Unless you're really lucky, you only get that they way by restricting what you eat.

Is someone who needs 1500 cal to maintain weight but only eats 500 anorexic whereas somone who needs 4000 but only eats 3000 not?


----------



## OnTheRivet (Sep 3, 2004)

Dwayne Barry said:


> I guess it all depends on how one defines anorexia. Most pro's (elite endurance athletes in general) are incredibly lean. Unless you're really lucky, you only get that they way by restricting what you eat.
> 
> Is someone who needs 1500 cal to maintain weight but only eats 500 anorexic whereas somone who needs 4000 but only eats 3000 not?


Isn't anorexia a mental disorder where people don't actually see themselves as too thin? Man when I was thin...really thin (5'11" 147lbs race weight), I knew it, but damn I was sure faster than when I weighed 30 lbs more. I think that's the difference, anerexics have distorted views of themselves whereas the average pro knows they are frickin skinny and can't wait to retire so they can eat something.

EDIT. 
Check out them pipe cleaners. I'm a fat and happy 160lbs these days.


----------



## Dwayne Barry (Feb 16, 2003)

OnTheRivet said:


> Isn't anorexia a mental disorder where people don't actually see themselves as too thin? Man when I was thin...really thin (5'11" 147lbs race weight), I knew it, but damn I was sure faster than when I weighed 30 lbs more. I think that's the difference, anerexics have distorted views of themselves whereas the average pro knows they are frickin skinny and can't wait to retire so they can eat something.


That sounds about right to me. Most people would look at me and say I'm skinny(ish) at 5'10" and 155 lbs (maybe more like lower 150s now). But realistically to maximize my power/weight ratio, I'd probably need to get down to the 140-145 lb area. I'm heading down now for cross, just starting to see the abs clearly.

I think you're right though. The definition of anorexia has as much to do with perception of self as how much you eat. It's one thing if you're as skinny as Iggy Pop (and you know it) because you recognize that's what is necessary to maximize performance and another if you like like him and think you're fat.


----------



## brianmcg (Oct 12, 2002)

Noël said:


> Sounds like the U.S. to me.


Sorry, 1 out of 3 in the U.S. are not obese. Nothing I have ever seen even comes close to that. Are there a lot of obese, sure, overweight, yep, just like everywhere else in the industrialized world.


----------



## Meatball (Sep 3, 2005)

brianmcg said:


> Sorry, 1 out of 3 in the U.S. are not obese. Nothing I have ever seen even comes close to that. Are there a lot of obese, sure, overweight, yep, just like everywhere else in the industrialized world.



I just did a speech on this today.

60 Million adults (20+) are obese.
65% of adults are overweight and/or obese.


----------



## Dwayne Barry (Feb 16, 2003)

brianmcg said:


> Sorry, 1 out of 3 in the U.S. are not obese. Nothing I have ever seen even comes close to that. Are there a lot of obese, sure, overweight, yep, just like everywhere else in the industrialized world.


I get the impression that we are being hit particularly hard by the obesity epidemic even for industrialized nations? Should be easy enough to find out.


----------



## fast_twitch (Jul 4, 2006)

I am 6'2" and 160 with ~6% body fat. Raced for several years and ridden since I was a wee tot, lots! I do 250+ miles per week in season. When the days get short, I run ~40 miles per week and ride maybe once or twice per week. 

I gauge any days workout on resting heart rate of that day and HR response to the first big effort. If the HR is elastic, I do high intensity intervals, or go hard with the group. If HR is not elastic or it is difficult to reach LT, I chill. During hard days, I regularly burn 1200+ kcal/hour. Add up five hours for a long ride and it's hard to replace, especially if you don't eat junk. I only eat whole food and few supplements. 

What I am trying to say is, if you go hard, ride lots and eat correctly, then you will be skinny. I am no pro (Cat. 3) but if I rode more I might get "pro skinny", which is not that far away from my current dimension.

These guys aren't anorexic. They eat well and ride hard, alot. I know from experience that if I don't eat well (and lots) I will be dropped. I suspect the same for the pros.


----------



## Noël1 (Mar 2, 2006)

brianmcg said:


> Sorry, 1 out of 3 in the U.S. are not obese. Nothing I have ever seen even comes close to that. Are there a lot of obese, sure, overweight, yep, just like everywhere else in the industrialized world.


 i guess i should have use the sarcasim icon. I wasn't being literate. This my way of saying the average american is overweight compared to rest of the world and not really 1 of 3 is obese.


----------



## thespoonman (Mar 19, 2006)

*it's all statistics*

everyone knows statistics are all fun and games until you actually dig deeper and look where the numbers are from and who got them.

If doctors collect the numbers and submit them you are only going to get weights from people who...wait for it...go to doctors

Via telephone...which is most common...people can tell you whatever they want

And if we are talking about the body mass index scale that is normally used for this stuff with the general population...then anyone who is short and works out a considerable amount can be obese very easily...I became obese during my freshman year of college...Why...I was a wrestler and I weighed 210 and was 5'7...that put me around a 30.5 on a scale where 30 and greater is obese...and I had a body fat percentage of something like 10% and a RHR of 45ish...

as for numbers....25% of the states in the US have more than 25% of their population that is obese...YEAH


----------



## Spunout (Aug 12, 2002)

I hear tales about local cyclists going over to Belgium to cut it on the Kermesse circuit and the first nickname they earn is 'fattie' usually. 

I'm 6.0 and 150lbs at racing weight. Have been as high as 195. I eat comfortably but not excessive. No junk food, no fried food, nothing that comes in a package.


----------



## Argentius (Aug 26, 2004)

yes, they are. From CDC.gov:

"Percent of noninstitutionalized adults age 20 years and over who are overweight or obese: 66.3
Percent of noninstitutionalized adults age 20 years and over who are obese: 32
Source: NHANES data on the Prevalence of Overweight and Obesity Among Adults-United States, 2003-2004."

Obesity / non-obesity is "just a number," simply some height / weight math, of course, but it's still a rather disturbing number.


----------



## Dwayne Barry (Feb 16, 2003)

Argentius said:


> Obesity / non-obesity is "just a number," simply some height / weight math, of course, but it's still a rather disturbing number.


And of course, the real significance isn't some sort of generalized distaste of people becoming fat, it's the fact that all kinds of negative health consequences are much, much more common in the overweight and obese categories as compared to normal weight people.


----------



## saddle tramp (Feb 22, 2006)

During a season of hard riding, hard riding for me that is, nothing at all compared to the pro's-by a long, long shot, I can't eat enough to maintain my weight. My family is amazed at the volume of food I consume. I actually have to try and eat a little more. 

I can't imagine these guys watching what they eat. I would think that a good part of their waking moments off the saddle are spent chowing.


----------



## txzen (Apr 6, 2005)

Armstrong is a bit past his climbing weight these days:


----------



## den bakker (Nov 13, 2004)

txzen said:


> Armstrong is a bit past his climbing weight these days:


Now is your chance to take him on then


----------



## soulsurfer104 (Jun 30, 2003)

....why is he wearing bike shorts under his running shorts? weird.


----------



## terzo rene (Mar 23, 2002)

When Floyd was quoted as saying when he needed to lose weight he just didn't eat for a couple days and others talk about 8 hour rides on water and a banana, they aren't all eating well and training properly. Bicisport ran a big article last year on eating disorders in the peloton which had a number of examples of "supermodel" style eating and cases where performance was impaired due to their behavior.


----------



## mmoose (Apr 2, 2004)

soulsurfer104 said:


> ....why is he wearing bike shorts under his running shorts? weird.


I wear a running short that is the same as a bike short...just without the chamios. Reduces chafing and such. In fact, good use for a pair of worn out bike shorts...cut out the chamios put a pair of cotton shorts over the top.


----------



## bahueh (May 11, 2004)

*you need to start paying more attention..*



brianmcg said:


> Sorry, 1 out of 3 in the U.S. are not obese. Nothing I have ever seen even comes close to that. Are there a lot of obese, sure, overweight, yep, just like everywhere else in the industrialized world.


. 

at least 30% of this country is clinically defined as OBESE...upwards of 50-60% are now considered overweight. This country is freaking huge man...if you live in the midwest you probably don't have much of a comparison population.. 

I worked in the aviation industry for 2 years out of college...fitting HUGE people into normal sized aircraft seats...healthy, normal weight people fit fine, the majority of passengers DID NOT FIT fine. that was five years ago, I shudder to see it now..


----------



## JTS628 (Apr 22, 2003)

brianmcg said:


> Sorry, 1 out of 3 in the U.S. are not obese. Nothing I have ever seen even comes close to that. Are there a lot of obese, sure, overweight, yep, just like everywhere else in the industrialized world.


the "industrialized world" pulls in a lot of countries, including japan, denmark, etc. 

from the cdc: these figures are self-reported (i.e., people probably undereport being obese)

http://www.cdc.gov/nccdphp/dnpa/obesity/trend/maps/

according to the OECD, self-reported obesity rates in japan and korea are about 3%. self reported obesity rates in denmark are about 10%. both rates are, however, climbing.

anyone who thinks that the us, and the world, is not in the midst of an epidemic of obesity, with no cure in sight, is fooling him or herself.


----------



## Dwayne Barry (Feb 16, 2003)

I went to a talk last week that showed obesity %'s in increments of 5 (so 0-5, 5-10%, etc.) by state using color coded graphics. The study has collected BMI stats continuously since 1985, so they have yearly data.

For the 1985 map almost every state was white with < 5% obesity, only a few states in the south were in the 5-10% range. Then the presenter just clicked thru slides that progressed by 1 year and the map just became more and more blue, with higher percentage ranges being darker blue, as the years went by. It was really striking. By 2005 the whole map was pretty blue with still the south as the worst area, most states down there were in the 25-30% or it may have even been 30-35% obesity range.

If current trends in diabetes continue (obesity is causally linked to Type II diabetes) over 50% of the children born today will develop it. That will have a massive impact on our health care costs.


----------



## steephill (Jul 14, 2005)

*An Ironman some day?*



txzen said:


> Armstrong is a bit past his climbing weight these days:


... still not looking to shabby by any means. With his current interest in running, his swimming background and being a decent cyclist, I wouldn't be surprised if Armstrong does an Ironman some day.


----------



## terzo rene (Mar 23, 2002)

Dwayne Barry said:


> I went to a talk last week that showed obesity %'s in increments of 5 (so 0-5, 5-10%, etc.) by state using color coded graphics. The study has collected BMI stats continuously since 1985, so they have yearly data.
> 
> For the 1985 map almost every state was white with < 5% obesity, only a few states in the south were in the 5-10% range. Then the presenter just clicked thru slides that progressed by 1 year and the map just became more and more blue, with higher percentage ranges being darker blue, as the years went by. It was really striking. By 2005 the whole map was pretty blue with still the south as the worst area, most states down there were in the 25-30% or it may have even been 30-35% obesity range.
> 
> If current trends in diabetes continue (obesity is causally linked to Type II diabetes) over 50% of the children born today will develop it. That will have a massive impact on our health care costs.


I think I have the site with those stats bookmarked somewhere. A very disturbing picture, though it surprisingly fit my preconceived ideas about which areas are the worst rather well. If you have ever been to Gainsville, FL or other southern adipopolitan areas you don't need a statistician to tell you there be some fat people there.


----------



## Spinnerman (Oct 21, 2004)

Okay, what impact does processed food have to do with obesity numbers? I have the following non-scientific opinion that is partially based on fact.

As the percentage of cigarette users started to decline and major Tabacco Corporations started to loose lawsuits, Tabacco companies looked for new ways to improve their bottom line. What did they come up with, they realized they could lieterally addict people to the consumption of processed food by mimicking the fast food industry practise of engineering food so the taste and smell was pleasing, the food had addictive qualities and the food would be engineered in such a way that you wouldn't feel satisfied without eating significant quantities. The Tabacco companies initiated efforts to acquire food companies, such as Phillip-Morris acquiring Kraft Foods and the bottom line improved. 

Another classic example is how the major soft drink manufactures have negotiated contracts with our schools to place soft drink machines at a cost to our childrens health. The soft drink manufacturers goal is to establish lifetime consumers of their products.

Avoiding obesity is really a simple matter of eating foods that is a whole food and obstaining from processed and most fast food (don't drink soft drinks and don't eat foods with added sugar). You could still gain wait if you ate too much and did not exercise, but it is much more difficult to become obese from the consumption of whole food because your body will feel satisfied and nourished and you won't be craving foods as often as you would be if you ate processed foods.

Okay, I'm off my soap box now.


----------



## OnTheRivet (Sep 3, 2004)

terzo rene said:



> I think I have the site with those stats bookmarked somewhere. A very disturbing picture, though it surprisingly fit my preconceived ideas about which areas are the worst rather well. If you have ever been to Gainsville, FL or other southern adipopolitan areas you don't need a statistician to tell you there be some fat people there.


I have a friend who used to wrench for the GT MTB team in the late 90's. He would travel through the south occasionally and he said it was ridiculous, everybody was fat.


----------



## Dwayne Barry (Feb 16, 2003)

Spinnerman said:


> Okay, what impact does processed food have to do with obesity numbers?


I think epidemiologists who study this issue even have hard time getting a handle on it. It is almost certainly multifactorial and not caused by any single issue. Certainly the ready availability of tasty, cheap calorie-dense foods is one factor. We seem to have chosen to distribute ourselves in such a way that we probably expend less energy in our daily activities than we used to because vehicles are used to get everywhere. Probably for adults and especially for kids, the entertainment available thru TV, video games and the computer make us much more likely to choose sedentary leisure activities rather than physically-active ones.

It's not all bad though. I'm pretty sure I heard somewhere while the % of the population that is overweight & obese and deconditioned, etc. is growing also the people in the population who have taken up exercise, etc. and therefore are physically fit has also grown of the last couple of decades.


----------

