# Campagnolo press-fit crankset "Over-Torque Comp Ultra"



## zizi (Dec 25, 2011)

The new Campy Over-Torque Comp Ultra is on sale.

Has anybody tried the new crankset on a S-Works SL4. I am not sure weather it fits the OSBB bottom bracket.

Thank you for your kind answers.


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## bikerjulio (Jan 19, 2010)

I have not done this, but I try to follow the world of BB standards.

Spec's OSBB is simply their way of doing BB30, and from the point of view of the crank it's a standard BB30 system.

Campy's kit to put OT in a BB30 bike,consists of the bearings and a couple of spacers. So yes, there's no reason this won't work. Since it's a 30mm spindle, and if you already have good bearings in the bike, then presumably any BB30 spacers would work. Looks like about 5mm on each side is needed.


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## roadworthy (Nov 11, 2011)

As bikerjulio stated...Campy OT is plug and play on any BB30 or narrow version of PF30 which you have on your bike. One often misunderstood point is...just because the Sworks BB shell measures 61mm across, doesn't affect bearing spacing because the Delrin bushings makes spacing identical to BB30...each bushing protrudes 3.5mm on each side of the shell.
If you get the new Campy OT crank, please come here and review it with pics. To adjust preload on that crank you need a special tool. I understand the crank is excellent but haven't held one in my hands. Btw, Campy OT will be far superior than trying to adapt a std. Campy UT crank to your bike. Of all the external bearing cranks on the market, Campy UT adapts the poorest to BB/PF30 bikes however the UT crank is just superb on threaded BB's and in fact what I ride.


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## bikerjulio (Jan 19, 2010)

RW you are so smart, perhaps you can answer this.

Sorry to drift a little, but is the OT crank exactly the same (dimension-ally I mean), as BB386 EVO?

Looks that way. 

I see also that Campy sell threaded cups for BSA to OT. Sounds perfect  Except for the special tools of course. I'll stick to UT for the moment.


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## roadworthy (Nov 11, 2011)

bikerjulio said:


> *Is the OT crank exactly the same (dimension-ally I mean), as BB386 EVO*?
> 
> Looks that way.
> 
> I see also that Campy sell threaded cups for BSA to OT. Sounds perfect  Except for the special tools of course. I'll stick to UT for the moment.


The answer is no Bikerjulio to your question. Any BB with 86 as a reference will not work with the OT BB30 crank for the simple fact that the spindle is too short on any BB30 crank. The whole basis for the wider 86mm shells was to use a standard external bearing crank because effectively a press fit 86mm shell places the bearings in space the same distance apart as bearing installed externally to a 68mm theaded BB...only difference is the bearings on a BB86 are now inside the shell and pressed in place. The reason btw for BB86 which is a good concept other than compromise to Q-factor...the same as an external BB crank...is it allows wider chainstays and and in theory greater lateral stiffness based upon chain stay cross-section which increases moment of inertia in the horizontal plane. Wider chainstays are stiffer in that plane and don't necessarily compromise vertical flexibility which affects ride as chainstays don't have to be increased in height or thickness in the vertical plane. So these wider BB's are a good concept even though Specialized doesn't embrace this technology and sticks with a more standard BB shell although their BB's are monster stiff.

As to keeping your UT crank for a BSA BB, absolutely. It is a great combination...just outstanding and what the UT crank was designed for. I have read unsubstantiated speculation that the Campy OverTorque will be available in different spindle varieties...perhaps for both a threaded BB as you say as well as BB86 which is a longer spindle. This of course if the case, one day may obsolete the venerable UT Campy crank and eliminate the hirth joint and of course bearings pressed onto spindle halfshafts. I will tell you that Campy's Power Torque crank is lousy. This is my technical opinion. I am hopeful about Campy's new OverTorque cranks however...which look to have mechanical preload adjustment like Rotor which would eliminate the wave washer. It may be best in class in spite of yet another Campy specific tool to adjust. Time will tell.
Best Regards.

PS: I dug around the web a bit and found the following statement which is interesting:

*For the bottom bracket options it was said that it would be available only for BB30, PF30 and BB386, and that BSA would not be an option. This also turns out to be incorrect. It is correct that it will be available for BB30, PF30, and BB386, however it WILL also be available for BSA. What won’t be available is Italian threaded and bb86/90.
*

Up Close with the New Campagnolo Over Torque Ultra - Fair Wheel Bikes


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## bikerjulio (Jan 19, 2010)

Hi RW. Wasn't trying to catch you out, but I'd been looking at the 2014 Campy catalog before posting, hence my question about BB386EVO.

In the catalog is a table showing BB options for OT which includes both threaded AND 86.5mm BB's.

Now 386EVO is basically a "long" BB30 right? 

And it had appeared to me that OT was also a "long" BB30, since it's obviously quite a bit longer than a standard BB30 spindle and will fit a "86" mm shell.

Look at the 2014 catalog and you will see what I'm talking about.


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## roadworthy (Nov 11, 2011)

bikerjulio said:


> Hi RW. Wasn't trying to catch you out, but I'd been looking at the 2014 Campy catalog before posting, hence my question about BB386EVO.
> 
> In the catalog is a table showing BB options for OT which includes both threaded AND 86.5mm BB's.
> 
> ...


I believe you are correct Bikerjulio. If you connect all the data points, Campy likely created a 'longer version' of BB30 to satisfy BB386. They did this to kill two birds with one stone. So BB386 is probably plug and play with new OverTorque crank.
I will say this about that probability. One of the major benefits of BB30 is Q-factor. Having a single 30mm spindle satisfy both BB30 and BB386 while economically expedient for Campy isn't necessarily the best foot forward really for the consumer....not when there are dedicated BB30 cranks out there.

Same as the Rotor 3D+ crank. It works on BB30 with spacers on each side and sounds like the same thing basically as OverTorque. Perhaps Campy copied this idea in fact from Rotor...their mechanical preload is sure similar.  My intial reaction is a company like Campy wouldn't do this and they would have separate spindle lengths available but doesn't appear to be the case.

PS: more credence that OverTorque is designed for BB386:
http://forums.cervelo.com/forums/t/12800.aspx
Believe Campy did this with Cervelo's BBright in their sights as well. One spindle length that fits BB386, BBright and BB/PF30, all accommodated with different 30mm ID spacer widths.
And of course begs the question...can this longer 30mm spindle be adaptable to a a more conventional 68mm standard threaded BB which is currently the dominion of Campy UT? Quite possible because the spindle has the length of an external bearing crank it appears. So only a matter of adapting a 30mm spindle diameter to conventional threaded BB which is likely feasible with a thread on BB with integrated bearings similar to DA/Ultegra BB only with a 30mm ID versus 24mm ID.
That way a single long 30mm OD OverTorque spindle can basically fit all BB's out there only by changing the BB interface and opting for different spacer widths. Hope that helps.


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## primov8 (Dec 16, 2012)

Its great what Campy has done with their OT cranksets. Its similar to what others have done already regarding a 30mm spindle, but with a longer spindle length so that its not a native BB30 crankset only. Its a great options for Campy fans since these cranksets will work on a majority of bb applications.


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## roadworthy (Nov 11, 2011)

primov8 said:


> Its great what Campy has done with their OT cranksets. Its similar to what others have done already regarding a 30mm spindle, but with a longer spindle length so that its not a native BB30 crankset only. Its a great options for Campy fans since these cranksets will work on a majority of bb applications.


A couple of ways of looking at it primo. Some believe that a compromised design is a kluge. Many for example would appreciate a shorter spindle BB30 specific crank and not run outboard spacers. Campy like all companies is trying to make profit and that means, keep complexity low, i.e. have a single crank serve many different BB's. It makes sense if there is no functional downside. I personally would take a hard look at a BB30 specific crank if fitting to a Specialized bike for example which doesn't support the 86mm BB press in shell length like Cervelo and Trek.
So a matter of philosophy. Overall not a bad thing provided the downside of a longer spindle crank like the new OverTorque doesn't have any functional issues. Not clear if Q-factor for example is as narrow for the OverTorque as say for a std. BB30 crank...one of the benefits of having a shorter BB shell and matching short spindle. My guess is the OverTorque has the same Q-factor as a basic external bearing crank like UltraTorque because in effect the spindle is the same length between the two cranks even though the architecture is completely different.
Q-factor isn't a show stopper either. I ride Campy UT crank and am perfectly fine with it. Love that crankset in fact. Best I have ever ridden.


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## primov8 (Dec 16, 2012)

The Q-factor on the new OT cranksets remained at 145.5mm. Not bad considering a Hollowgram BB30 SiSLcrankset is listed at 143mm.

My only complaint, although it didn't stop me from buying it, would be the design and use of the OT's preload ring and proprietary installation/removal tool. It could have been much easier with the use of a NDS locking bolt + wave washer + washers/shims (.5-1mm), similar to how FSA installs their crankset.


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## roadworthy (Nov 11, 2011)

primov8 said:


> The Q-factor on the new OT cranksets remained at 145.5mm. Not bad considering a Hollowgram BB30 SiSLcrankset is listed at 143mm.
> 
> My only complaint, although it didn't stop me from buying it, would be the design and use of the OT's preload ring and proprietary installation/removal tool. It could have been much easier with the use of a NDS locking bolt + wave washer + washers/shims (.5-1mm), similar to how FSA installs their crankset.


But then Campy wouldn't derive any profit on their proprietary tool which ultimately will be copied by Park. 
Have you installed it yet? Curious how the preload works. Haven't held one in my hands. Is the lockring similar to the equally long spindle Rotor 3D+?


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## primov8 (Dec 16, 2012)

roadworthy said:


> But then Campy wouldn't derive any profit on their proprietary tool which ultimately will be copied by Park.
> Have you installed it yet? Curious how the preload works. Haven't held one in my hands. Is the lockring similar to the equally long spindle Rotor 3D+?


I did a test fit on my Ridley(PF30) and De Rosa(BB30) to see how it would work without having to remove my current bottom brackets on both bikes. It bolted right on but I did have to use the DS & NDS spacers from the OT PF30 bb kit. I didn't have my digital caliper to get an exact measurement but the spacers from Campy are probably 9.5mm vs. Rotor's 11.5mm (I laid both spacers on the table and used the end of a hex key (2mm) to even up the diameter of the Campy OT spacer with Rotor's).

The preload ring is similar in function as to Rotor's and even Sram's Force 22 BB30 and some of their S9xx series cranksets that use a preload adjustment ring. Where its different is the threads for the OT preload ring aren't on the crank arm or spindle but its actually two pieces itself. (Threaded collar with teeth that bite on the spindle and the preload ring that threads onto this collar). 

If you were to ask me, the OT cranksets can be installed w/o this preload ring and the use of a wave washer + washers/shims would be just as functional. Unfortunately, the proprietary tools is needed to press the NDS crank arm onto the spindle, followed by the special 4-point crank arm lockring. The other tool is to remove the crank arm from the spindle. Obviously, Campy designed it to be profitably"different". :wink5:


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## roadworthy (Nov 11, 2011)

Thanks for the excellent overview primo...appreciate it.

If you read a bit into the design, I believe Campy may have gone for the grand slam with the OverTorque. What I mean by that is...it is quite possible moving forward, this single crank will eclipse any need for a different crank for 'any' BB configuration including BSA...which is quite flabbergasting if you think about. OverTorque could potentially and likely will replace UltraTorque hirth joint Record cranks over time for the simple reason that unlike UT, it can work in _every_ BB configuration including External bearing BSA.

So how would that be accomplished? If you think about it, not very hard. What is OverTorque? It is simply a BB30 crank with a longer spindle...same length as UT. So enough spindle to fit outside a standard 68mm BB shell width. Only thing you would need to match up to BSA is a standard Shimano DA like BB only instead of 24mm ID bearings, you would need 30mm ID. Piece of cake to develop that with oversized captured BB30 bearings.

Below is some words to describe the application of OverTorque you maybe interested in:

*For the bottom bracket options it was said that it would be available only for BB30, PF30 and BB386, and that BSA would not be an option. This also turns out to be incorrect. It is correct that it will be available for BB30, PF30, and BB386, however it WILL also be available for BSA. What won’t be available is Italian threaded and bb86/90.

The crank does require a few special tools as we would expect from Campagnolo, and having a chance to use them, they are, as we would also expect, very nice to use.

Campagnolo wants to fit the PF30/386 bb options in a semi-permanent way using a primer and sleeve retainer compound. There was also mention of using a plastic epoxy for a permanent mounting solution. The bearings are removable from the cups so bearing replacement would not be affected, however if mounted in a permanent solution removing it to change to a different crank at a later time could be a problem. Mounting of the bottom bracket is very nice, it’s a very snug press fit and while Campagnolo will likely not recommend it, my feeling is that it would probably be fine to mount it using a simple carbon assembly compound.
*
Up Close with the New Campagnolo Over Torque Ultra - Fair Wheel Bikes

Although the article is deplete of details, it stands to reason that the new OverTorque crank could be made to work effectively with BSA aka a threaded 68mm wide std shell. All one would need is a mating threaded BB with 30mm ID. So believe that is on the way if not already here. From where I sit, this would in effect replace UT completely. Why purchase a Record UT crank when you could have OT that will fit all different bikes on the market?
Cheers.





primov8 said:


> I did a test fit on my Ridley(PF30) and De Rosa(BB30) to see how it would work without having to remove my current bottom brackets on both bikes. It bolted right on but I did have to use the DS & NDS spacers from the OT PF30 bb kit. I didn't have my digital caliper to get an exact measurement but the spacers from Campy are probably 9.5mm vs. Rotor's 11.5mm (I laid both spacers on the table and used the end of a hex key (2mm) to even up the diameter of the Campy OT spacer with Rotor's).
> 
> The preload ring is similar in function as to Rotor's and even Sram's Force 22 BB30 and some of their S9xx series cranksets that use a preload adjustment ring. Where its different is the threads for the OT preload ring aren't on the crank arm or spindle but its actually two pieces itself. (Threaded collar with teeth that bite on the spindle and the preload ring that threads onto this collar).
> 
> If you were to ask me, the OT cranksets can be installed w/o this preload ring and the use of a wave washer + washers/shims would be just as functional. Unfortunately, the proprietary tools is needed to press the NDS crank arm onto the spindle, followed by the special 4-point crank arm lockring. The other tool is to remove the crank arm from the spindle. Obviously, Campy designed it to be profitably"different". :wink5:


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## bikerjulio (Jan 19, 2010)

hey RW, it's already done. I told you 2 weeks ago that Campy had a BSA solution 



> Only thing you would need to match up to BSA is a standard Shimano DA like BB only instead of 24mm ID bearings, you would need 30mm ID._ Piece of cake to develop that with oversized captured BB30 bearings._


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## roadworthy (Nov 11, 2011)

bikerjulio said:


> hey RW, it's already done. I told you 2 weeks ago that Campy had a BSA solution


You are such a savant bikerjulio...lol.
Where are the pictures of BSA BB with Campy's OT?

Primo,
Found a pic. The way Campy is doing it for BSA is emulating Press fit BB30 derivatives and using threaded 'cups'...not unlike their threaded cups for UltraTorque only in this case fit separate BB30 bearings. Pretty sweet. To me, OT is a game changer for Campy. Don't see a purpose for UT any longer.

Pic of BSA threaded cups for OT below:


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## roadworthy (Nov 11, 2011)

*And for those UT fans who want the best PF/BB30 solution:*

Primo,
Praxis is developing a very elegant BB to finally mount UT to PF/BB30 'properly'.
Current Campy press in UT cups suck no matter how much bikerjulio likes them. 

Really good news? Praxis BB consists of cups, i.e. will retain Campy UT bearings...bearings won't be integrated into cups like other Praxis and DA BB solutions.
Bearing life with UT is superb as you likely know.

UT BB from Praxis coming this spring:


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## primov8 (Dec 16, 2012)

RW, I couldn't agree more. That article from Fairwheel Bikes is what help finalize my decision to buy the OT cranksets. After reading that last Dec, I took advantage of Ribble's sale right before the holidays and bought both OT cranksets, PF30 bb kit and the proprietary tools. 

Even if Campy didn't have their own BSA OT bb, there are several BSA BB30 bottom brackets (Rotor, THM, Bdop) that have been out for some time now which would work just fine. But definitely a great option for Campy fans knowing a Campy specific 30mm spindle crankset will work on just about any bb application.


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## bikerjulio (Jan 19, 2010)

I took the more logical approach and looked on the Campy website 

Over-Torque™ outboard cups - Campagnolo - The official Campagnolo web site - Bicycle Parts and Components Cycling


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## roadworthy (Nov 11, 2011)

bikerjulio said:


> I took the more logical approach and looked on the Campy website
> 
> Over-Torque™ outboard cups - Campagnolo - The official Campagnolo web site - Bicycle Parts and Components Cycling


At least you finally showed up with something substantive.


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## roadworthy (Nov 11, 2011)

primov8 said:


> RW, I couldn't agree more. That article from Fairwheel Bikes is what help finalize my decision to buy the OT cranksets. After reading that last Dec, I took advantage of Ribble's sale right before the holidays and bought both OT cranksets, PF30 bb kit and the proprietary tools.
> 
> Even if Campy didn't have their own BSA OT bb, there are several BSA BB30 bottom brackets (Rotor, THM, Bdop) that have been out for some time now which would work just fine. But definitely a great option for Campy fans knowing a Campy specific 30mm spindle crankset will work on just about any bb application.


Thing that bugs me about that crank tho Primo is the f-ing price tag. $800 for a crank without a power meter? Ridiculous. DA makes a press fit adapter now for BB86 that should work for PF30 and DA cranks can be perfectly mounted to BB30 with a Praxis adapter. Can get the new universal spider DA crank for $500 if you shop around. I like the new OverTorque, but it just ain't worth it in my opinion. Plus they are way overcharging for essentially the same BSA cups as UT only to fit BB30 bearings. Outrageous they want 100 bux for two threaded cups. Will stick with UT and use a Praxis adapter if I move away from BSA.
My thoughts.


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## primov8 (Dec 16, 2012)

roadworthy said:


> Primo,
> Praxis is developing a very elegant BB to finally mount UT to PF/BB30. Really good news? It will retain Campy UT bearings...bearings won't be integrated into cups like other Praxis and DA BB solutions.
> Bearing life with UT is superb as you likely know.
> 
> UT BB from Praxis coming this spring:


Its funny, we must think alike, lol. I was just on their website the other night and saw that as well. I'm a big fan of their rings, been using it on both builds since I went EPS last year and will definitely miss them once I put the OT cranksets back on.

I'm actually surprised to see that because when I had asked Praxis about why the Campy conversion bb wasn't released as advertised for last summer, I was told they decided they weren't going forward with it. They were focusing on their O.E.(Shimano) related products.


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## primov8 (Dec 16, 2012)

roadworthy said:


> Thing that bugs me about that crank tho Primo is the f-ing price tag. $800 for a crank without a power meter? Ridiculous. DA makes a press fit adapter now for BB86 that should work for PF30 and DA cranks can be perfectly mounted to BB30 with a Praxis adapter. Can get the new universal spider DA crank for $500 if you shop around. I like the new OverTorque, but it just ain't worth in my opinion. Will stick with UT and use a Praxis adapter if I move away from BSA.
> My thoughts.


$800? I paid right around $1k for the Comp Ultra, Comp One, OT PF30 kit, profitable... I mean proprietary tools, all through Ribble.


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## roadworthy (Nov 11, 2011)

primov8 said:


> Its funny, we must think alike, lol. I was just on their website the other night and saw that as well. I'm a big fan of their rings, been using it on both builds since I went EPS last year and will definitely miss them once I put the OT cranksets back on.
> 
> I'm actually surprised to see that because when I had asked Praxis about why the Campy conversion bb wasn't released as advertised for last summer, I was told they decided they weren't going forward with it. They were focusing on their O.E.(Shimano) related products.


I will give you my thoughts on it. Of all the high end crank conversions on the market, there are 'none' as problematic as mounting UltraTorque to BB30/PF30 in spite of a myriad of solutions out there. So Praxis with their strong engineering bias understands this. That BB would be a huge seller because it in effect replicates the identical BSA environment that UT was designed for. Press in external bearing cups suck because of load path tries to unseat the press when bearings are external to a bore. Praxis BB's are only limited because their bearings are integrated in most of their designs. Not so with their forthcoming UT solution. Praxis BB will be very sweet for UT lovers.


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## roadworthy (Nov 11, 2011)

primov8 said:


> $800? I paid right around $1k for the Comp Ultra, Comp One, OT PF30 kit, profitable... I mean proprietary tools, all through Ribble.


I stand corrected as I figured you cut a deal and I didn't add in all ancillary hardware.
I know OverTorque is perhaps the crown jewel of cranks out there and state of the art, but man, you sure pay for it. I like it make no mistake, but not 2x's the price tag of DA which to me are simply outstanding...and I am a Campy guy.


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## primov8 (Dec 16, 2012)

roadworthy said:


> I will give you my thoughts on it. Of all the high end crank conversions on the market, there are 'none' as problematic as mounting UltraTorque to BB30/PF30 in spite of a myriad of solutions out there. So Praxis with their strong engineering bias understands this. That BB would be a huge seller because it in effect replicates the identical BSA environment that UT was designed for. Press in external bearing cups suck because of load path tries to unseat the press when bearings are external to a bore. Praxis BB's are only limited because their bearings are integrated in most of their designs. Not so with their forthcoming UT solution. Praxis BB will be very sweet for UT lovers.



+1. A huge ++++ for Campy fans without having to go the OT route.

OP, sorry for the slight off topic discussion. Will the new OT crankset fit OSBB? Yes.


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## roadworthy (Nov 11, 2011)

primov8 said:


> +1. A huge ++++ for Campy fans without having to go the OT route.
> 
> OP, sorry for the slight off topic discussion. Will the new OT crankset fit OSBB? Yes.


lol. Btw, congrats on getting that crank. You are the kind of guy with the insight to appreciate what you have. Cheers bro.


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## primov8 (Dec 16, 2012)

roadworthy said:


> I stand corrected as I figured you cut a deal and I didn't add in all ancillary hardware.
> I know OverTorque is perhaps the crown jewel of cranks out there and state of the art, but man, you sure pay for it. I like it make no mistake, but not 2x's the price tag of DA which to me are simply outstanding...and I am a Campy guy.





roadworthy said:


> lol. Btw, congrats on getting that crank. You are the kind of guy with the insight to appreciate what you have. Cheers bro.


Trust me, no way in the world I'm paying $800 for a single crankset. 
Btw, just like what I had posted on the cervelo based forum, I took pics of the spindles from my current cranksets.. Rotor 3D+, FSA 386EVO, Comp Ultra. I'm just waiting to test fit the Comp Ultra on my brother's S5 and then I'll post pics and write up on the fit and installation on the (3) bb platforms.. PF30, BB30, and BBright.


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## roadworthy (Nov 11, 2011)

primov8 said:


> Trust me, no way in the world I'm paying $800 for a single crankset.
> Btw, just like what I had posted on the cervelo based forum, I took pics of the spindles from my current cranksets.. Rotor 3D+, FSA 386EVO, Comp Ultra. I'm just waiting to test fit the Comp Ultra on my brother's S5 and then I'll post pics and write up on the fit and installation on the (3) bb platforms.. PF30, BB30, and BBright.


Fantastic. Look forward to your review and pics.
Good chatting with you and yeah, we think alike.


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## headloss (Mar 3, 2013)

roadworthy said:


> To me, OT is a game changer for Campy. Don't see a purpose for UT any longer.


In theory... let's see what happens in practice/reality.


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## berkeley (Mar 20, 2014)

Is there a way to fit this crank to a bike with Italian threaded bb? I'm wondering if I bored out std UT bearing cups and figured out somethin with spacers if this crank would work with my bike? Anyone tried this?
Thx


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## primov8 (Dec 16, 2012)

berkeley said:


> Is there a way to fit this crank to a bike with Italian threaded bb? I'm wondering if I bored out std UT bearing cups and figured out somethin with spacers if this crank would work with my bike? Anyone tried this?
> Thx


No need to bore out anything. I know Rotor has a BSA BB30 and ITA BB30 bottom bracket that threads right on. Bdop cycling also has it available, about $30 less than Rotor.


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## roadworthy (Nov 11, 2011)

primov8 said:


> No need to bore out anything. I know Rotor has a BSA BB30 and ITA BB30 bottom bracket that threads right on. Bdop cycling also has it available, about $30 less than Rotor.


Good catch primo.
PS: interesting that Campy doesn't offer their OT cups in Italian thread...unlike their UT threaded cups that are available in both threads.


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## primov8 (Dec 16, 2012)

roadworthy said:


> Good catch primo.
> PS: interesting that Campy doesn't offer their OT cups in Italian thread...unlike their UT threaded cups that are available in both threads.


Anytime. 
My friend was wondering as well, as to why Campy not offering the OT cups in ITA. But I'm sure its right around the corner; those that can't wait, nothing wrong with Rotor or Bdop's offering.


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## roadworthy (Nov 11, 2011)

primov8 said:


> Anytime.
> My friend was wondering as well, as to why Campy not offering the OT cups in ITA. But I'm sure its right around the corner; those that can't wait, nothing wrong with Rotor or Bdop's offering.


Yeah...Campy likely released the low hanging fruit first as you say...ITA threaded BB's are becoming much less common these days...especially for guys considering an OT crank.


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## bikerjulio (Jan 19, 2010)

Be interesting to know which, if any, current manufacturers use Italian BB's. 

Merckx always used to (I have 3). Not sure about now.

I just built up a Colnago for a friend that's English, and they used to be Italian.

I'd accumulated a few too many Italian BB's of different types and tried to eBay them a year ago with no interest at all.


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## berkeley (Mar 20, 2014)

Thanks! Looks like the rotor cups take up 10.5mm ea abd my frame is 70mm wide. Any need to swap in / out washers or is it a straight forward fit with the campy parts? Thx


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## primov8 (Dec 16, 2012)

berkeley said:


> Thanks! Looks like the rotor cups take up 10.5mm ea abd my frame is 70mm wide. Any need to swap in / out washers or is it a straight forward fit with the campy parts? Thx


The Rotor spacers are actually 11.5mm wide whereas Campy's OT spacers are 9.5mm wide. 
You can make it work with either one and the OT crankset might have to be installed with or without the adjustment ring.

Here's a thread I posted on the Campagnolo sub-forum; I showed how the OT crankset can be installed.
http://forums.roadbikereview.com/campagnolo/campagnolo-over-torque-comp-ultra-319548.html


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## wtchoe (Nov 12, 2011)

I've developed a creak with the Campy OT PF30 BB mounted on a Lynskey titanium frame, and am trying to replace it with a Chris King PF30 BB. However I'm having a devil of a time removing the OT bearings and delrin cups. I've tried heating the BB and tapping it out with a screwdriver, and have the Park Tool BB30 tool on order. Any other tips for removing the delrin cups?
Thanks in advance!!!


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## primov8 (Dec 16, 2012)

wtchoe said:


> I've developed a creak with the Campy OT PF30 BB mounted on a Lynskey titanium frame, and am trying to replace it with a Chris King PF30 BB. However I'm having a devil of a time removing the OT bearings and delrin cups. I've tried heating the BB and tapping it out with a screwdriver, and have the Park Tool BB30 tool on order. Any other tips for removing the delrin cups?
> Thanks in advance!!!


Heat isn't necessary. The last thing you want to happen are the delrin cups melting in place. The BBT 30.3 works as advertised; but if you can't wait, a deep socket or wooden dowel should do. Place it against the inside of the press fit cups and hammer the socket or dowel and the cups will eventually pop right out.

Btw, did you use any loctite on the cups? Specifically loctite 609 which helps eliminate the typical creaking and/or play found on press fit applications.


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## roadworthy (Nov 11, 2011)

wtchoe said:


> I've developed a creak with the Campy OT PF30 BB mounted on a Lynskey titanium frame, and am trying to replace it with a Chris King PF30 BB. However I'm having a devil of a time removing the OT bearings and delrin cups. I've tried heating the BB and tapping it out with a screwdriver, and have the Park Tool BB30 tool on order. Any other tips for removing the delrin cups?
> Thanks in advance!!!


I personally wouldn't use a screwdriver because the leading edge is too sharp.
A small diameter blunt rod is more effective. You shouldn't need any heat unless the PF30 delrin cups were either Loctited with the wrong Loctite or epoxied in. Do you know the history of the BB installation on your Lynskey?
Creaking is many times due to either poor installation or lack of maintenance...or your bearings are worn out. I wouldn't spent the $$ for a Chris King PF30 BB...but its your money.
Tapping from the inside with a rod around the periphery should knock the bushings right out.
Creaking is common with PF30 and BB30 bearings. Specialized now spec's a low shear strength epoxy to quiet the PF30 delrin cups to their carbon BB's. Honestly if everything is loctited or epoxied, it can't creak unless the bearings are bad or require greasing and no need to speed the cash on a boutique BB.
Good luck.


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## wtchoe (Nov 12, 2011)

Thanks for the reassurance. Hope it works. I only used a hair dryer and not a heat gun, so I doubt if any melting occurred.
I didn't use any loctite since the manual didn't recommend it. The Chris King manual also says to use anti-seize on the replacement BB and I have some Permatex on order for that purpose. I would really hate to have the cups cold welded into the BB.
I take it you would use the loctite? I only have the 243 which is a medium threadlocker.


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## roadworthy (Nov 11, 2011)

wtchoe said:


> Thanks for the reassurance. Hope it works. I only used a hair dryer and not a heat gun, so I doubt if any melting occurred.
> I didn't use any loctite since the manual didn't recommend it. The Chris King manual also says to use anti-seize on the replacement BB and I have some Permatex on order for that purpose. I would really hate to have the cups cold welded into the BB.
> I take it you would use the loctite? I only have the 243 which is a medium threadlocker.


As Primo suggested, avoid heat, especially if you installed the BB and know there is nothing between the Delrin cups and the Ti BB I.D.

OK...so what to do.
Using nothing will result in creaks like you have now.
Using grease or anti-seize will likely give you some temporary success but both are directionally incorrect because they are lubrice and promote movement. Movement causes the Delrin bushings to squirm and dislodge. This causes either distortion and loss of hold on the BB30 bearings...or dislocation from the BB. 

The truth is, the large bike companies have performed their beta testing on their customers with both BB30 and PF30. Initally PF30 bushings were installed dry or sometimes with grease. There is a reason why now both BB are spec'ed with an adhesive and not a grease.

Below is Specialized 'latest' spec for their OSBB aka narrow PF30 for both their alloy and carbon BB that uses PF30 Delrin bushings.
Specialized which I believe has the most evolved R&D of any bike company has concluded that a 2 part epoxy of Delrin to their BB shell and using grease between the Delrin cup and the BB30 bearings is the best practice.

A note about concern as the future of connecting products moves to more high tech adhesives. The epoxy that Specialized spec's which btw is available at Home Depot, is simply a low strength epoxy. It has low shear strength by design. Why? Two reasons. Shear force stresses on the BB are slight. Most of the stress on the BB is in the vertical plane where bushings are in compression and are very strong in this path.
So by mechanically adhering a Delrin cup to a carbon/alloy/Ti shell you create a composite with a very strong but compliant environment to capture BB30 bearings.
The good news is...and this addresses your concern OP....is by using low shear strength epoxy, the cups can be easily knocked out....without heat. Simple, staccato tapping around the periphery...a wood dowel is least evasive...will tap the bushing right out with low strength epoxy.

Through Specialized testing they have determined that grease is a suitable medium between the bearing OD and Delrin cup ID. They have determined this because if the Delrin bushing is immobilized by bonding to the BB shell ID it will no longer squirm and distort and suitably captures the bearings. Combination of grease + waxy surface quality of Delrin mitigates noise...unlike Delrin squirming against the BB....new thin wall frames are like speaker membrane...they telegraph noise.

I hope this makes sense. I am a fan of both BB30 and PF30...but it always comes down to installation. When people complain about noise, which is common, it comes full circle back to incorrect installation, lack of maintenance and even crank preload which places a modest preload on the inner race which quiets rattle-y balls in the bearings.

HTH.
PS: an entire industry of expensive BB's i.e. Chris King, Praxis, C-bear etc has been spawned based upon inability of bike owners/shops to work on BB30 PF30. This is sad but is response to the reality that many just cannot adhere to a simple discipline of working on something as basic as a bearing interface. This is mostly out of ignorance or inexperience. The Specialized specification/procedure is available on the web via PDF download...as is the case with most technical products today. Of course one pays handsomely for an aftermarket BB that is a bit more friendly to install and if that makes an owner happy, then these products have their place.


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## wtchoe (Nov 12, 2011)

Wow -- thanks for the detailed advice! Loctite it is then.


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## roadworthy (Nov 11, 2011)

wtchoe said:


> Wow -- thanks for the detailed advice! Loctite it is then.


I was just waking up this morning and design is my thing. 
BB/PF 30 is widely misunderstood. It has stayed around and embraced by all top companies because it is stiff, light and simple...provided it is set up effectively.

If you use Loctite on the Delrin bushing to Ti BB interface, be sure to use Green Locitite...aka 609 or one of the serviceable Loctites designed for bearing/bore interfaces which is easy to get apart.
Loctite or epoxy will increase the durability life of the Delrin bushings because bonding to the BB shell gives the Delrin strength. Delrin bushings fail prematurely because of lack of support from the BB...when there is no bond and only press and then the Delrin bushings squirm and wear on their OD and distort based upon pedal forces which also affects the critical BB30 bearing interference in the ID of the plastic bushing. By bonding the bushing to the BB shell albeit with serviceability, the Delring bushings will stay rock solid longer. I hope that makes sense.

Good luck and as a courtesy to the forum, come back to this thread and let us know how it goes. We learn from one another.


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## wtchoe (Nov 12, 2011)

As per recommendations, I installed the King PF30 BB onto the Lynskey using a 2500psi mixed epoxy, which seems comparable to the strength specified for the Spesh OSBBs. I sandpapered the mating surfaces lightly, but I expect the actual strength to fall below the 2500, so I hope I can knock out these cups in the future. The epoxy had a 30min working time, so I also partially installed the cranks to make sure the alignment was correct, which it was. Then I allowed the BB to cure overnight.
I've gone on 2 quite hilly rides, including a Cat2 1200ft climb.
NO CREAKS!!!
The OT cranks fit perfectly if you remove both thin gasket rings and just keep the spacers. No play (so far) and no need for the plastic or wave rings.

I'll let you guys know if there are any issues going forward, but I don't think those cups are budging anytime soon.
Thanks again for the advice!


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## roadworthy (Nov 11, 2011)

wtchoe said:


> As per recommendations, I installed the King PF30 BB onto the Lynskey using a 2500psi mixed epoxy, which seems comparable to the strength specified for the Spesh OSBBs. I sandpapered the mating surfaces lightly, but I expect the actual strength to fall below the 2500, so I hope I can knock out these cups in the future. The epoxy had a 30min working time, so I also partially installed the cranks to make sure the alignment was correct, which it was. Then I allowed the BB to cure overnight.
> I've gone on 2 quite hilly rides, including a Cat2 1200ft climb.
> NO CREAKS!!!
> The OT cranks fit perfectly if you remove both thin gasket rings and just keep the spacers. No play (so far) and no need for the plastic or wave rings.
> ...


Well done wtchoe! Sounds like you did it exactly right and should be clear sailing moving forward. PF/30 press in cups creaking against BB shell is a common occurrence without an adhesive and why now Specialized spec's low strength epoxy. They should knock out when the time comes but the added strength of bonding them to the BB shell really improves their durability life so that time horizon should be well into the future.
Thanks for the update and ride safe.


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