# Why Mirrors?



## filtersweep (Feb 4, 2004)

I was reading another forum where the group consensus was that mirrors were the greatest invention since the derailleur. I've never used one, and I don't really get it... how can I benefit from using a Take-a-Look mirror? 

It seems if I am on the shoulder, I have no worries to begin with. If I am taking a lane, it will look like every vehicle that approaches from behind will hit me anyway... so what is the point in an urban environment?

Can someone enlighten me?


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## imetis (Jul 5, 2005)

The used bike I just picked up had a brake hood mounted mirror, and I find it worse than useless. I haven't been able to adjust it in a way that allows me to see around myself, and by the time a vehicle is visible it's almost in my peripheral vision. In the peloton it's an un-necessary distraction.


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## bigrider (Jun 27, 2002)

I am with you Filtersweep. There are a few occasions where if I was going to make a turn, I would use it and adjust my speed if a car was closing from behind and then make my head check after they went by me.

Other than that, I think they keep you worrying and looking at where you are not going.


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## bigbill (Feb 15, 2005)

*No mirror for me.*

I would rather turn and look at the traffic. I am an experienced rider and looking over my shoulder won't make me swerve into traffic. Looking at the traffic and drivers lets them know that I am aware of their presence. Kind of like making eye contact with a merging driver. I see you, you see me.


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## fastfullback (Feb 9, 2005)

*the only time I ever wished for a mirror*

was after passing a jogger who, as I was approaching from the front, actually caused me to say "Wow" out loud. It was on a relatively fast downhill with traffic about, and she was going up the hill.

So, to your point Filtersweep, a mirror would clearly have compromised my attention and safety...


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## YuriB (Mar 24, 2005)

filtersweep said:


> I was reading another forum where the group consensus was that mirrors were the greatest invention since the derailleur. I've never used one, and I don't really get it... how can I benefit from using a Take-a-Look mirror?
> 
> It seems if I am on the shoulder, I have no worries to begin with. If I am taking a lane, it will look like every vehicle that approaches from behind will hit me anyway... so what is the point in an urban environment?
> 
> Can someone enlighten me?


I use one. It allows me to time moves better on my commute and it has provided to be useful when a car was about to drift into me. I was able to see it coming and avoid it.
The other reason is prevention, when I hear the change in an engine nosie I'm tipped off to look back and make sure no one is trying something funny like throwing stuff at a cyclist....
I could trun my head but I prefer a mirror and I guess that is what it boils down to - preference


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## TurboTurtle (Feb 4, 2004)

filtersweep said:


> I was reading another forum where the group consensus was that mirrors were the greatest invention since the derailleur. I've never used one, and I don't really get it... how can I benefit from using a Take-a-Look mirror?
> 
> It seems if I am on the shoulder, I have no worries to begin with. If I am taking a lane, it will look like every vehicle that approaches from behind will hit me anyway... so what is the point in an urban environment?
> 
> Can someone enlighten me?


What a silly statement (or troll. I'll bite). Have you removed them from your car? What is the point of knowing what is going on behind you, right?

I consider my Take-A-Look far more valuable than my helmet. It lets me be aware of what is behind me at all times. Ignorance may be bliss, but it is also ignorance.

Bar mirrors and many glasses/helmet mirrors are only usable for changing lanes, etc., not for being aware. Like only having a really bad outside mirror on your car.

I consider anyone who berates others for wearing earphones while riding and yet doesn't use a mirror themselves to be a total hypocrit. You really think it's better to be blind to the rear than deaf?

About 3 weeks ago: 45 mph two lane state highway with 1 foot 'shoulder' to the right of the white line. Oncoming= construction gravel hauler with semi trailer doing about 65. In mirror I see a flat bed semi with construction equipment and a 'Wide Load' sign on the front doing about 55. No way either of these could stop. "It seems if I am on the shoulder, I have no worries to begin with." You would have had no more worries all right.

TF


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## biknben (Jan 28, 2004)

In a word..."convenience". It allows you the freedom to just ride without concerning yourself with what _might_ be happening behind you. You can instantly _know_ just by looking in your mirror. 

Navigating traffic becomes so much easier. Hear a loud engine?...take a look. Need to get around a pothole?...take a look. Wanna make a left across a few lanes?...take a look. While the mirror seems like a defensive tool, I ride much more agressively in traffic simply because I can. I act more like a car because I can see my surrounding better.

It's also great for riding in groups. Is my pace to fast/slow? Are people struggling, falling off the pace? Did everyone make it throught the light? etc...I know the answer instantly. Those that think they are super smooth and can turn around without swerving are kidding themselves. Even slight variations can disrupt the flow of a rider behind you. 

With the mirror, I'm a smoother and safer rider becuase I'm more aware of my surroundings. I don't have to guess, or wonder what is going on behind me. Looking behind me doesn't disrupt my rythym.

Those than snub the mirrors simply haven't taken the time to try one and get it set up correctly. There are different types of mirrors and not all will work for everyone. IMO, the bike mounted mirros are too shaky and don't provide a good view from all hand positions. The eye-glass mounted ones don't work for me because my glasses slide down with them and I prefer to take my glasses off from time to time. I prefer the helmet mount. I can turn my head and see anything I want to. The mirror is small because it is close to your eyes. It doesn't hinder anything else.

As you can see, I'm one of the people that swears by his mirror. Call me a dork but it comes down to personnal preference. I prefer my mirror!


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## Spinfinity (Feb 3, 2004)

*I use one commuting and riding with my wife.*

I don't wear it on solo, recreational rides or in groups.

On my commute I use it before moving from the shoulder to make a left turn. It helps me decide earlier if I need to accelerate or, occasionally, slow down before changing lanes. 

When I ride with my wife it's a huge help keeping her on my wheel. It's demoralizing for her if I ride ahead and slow down repeatedly during the ride and my being able to keep track of where she is with some sublety makes the ride much more enjoyable. She's way more likely to act enthused after rides when I wear the mirror, so, for that alone, it's one of the best $15.00 cycling items I own.


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## bigbill (Feb 15, 2005)

*I am not worried about the "fredness" factor.*

I commute with a camelback and just recently took the visor off of my helmet although I wish that I had this morning on my rainy commute. The road portion of my commute is on a street that has a 35mph speed limit with no shoulder. The remaining road section is on a 45mph road with a shoulder. I ride to and from work in traffic and will take the lane on the shoulderless road. The traffic on shoulderless road moves at 20-25 mph in the afternoon, so I make lane changes by looking over my shoulder while signalling. I wait for a response from the driver before moving over unless there is a large enough gap to just change lanes. Again, this is the way I prefer to ride on my commute. Given a different situation, a mirror might make sense.


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## MikeBiker (Mar 9, 2003)

TurboTurtle said:


> About 3 weeks ago: 45 mph two lane state highway with 1 foot 'shoulder' to the right of the white line. Oncoming= construction gravel hauler with semi trailer doing about 65. In mirror I see a flat bed semi with construction equipment and a 'Wide Load' sign on the front doing about 55. No way either of these could stop. "It seems if I am on the shoulder, I have no worries to begin with." You would have had no more worries all right.TF


 You must have upgraded your mirror to have the radar gun option!


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## filtersweep (Feb 4, 2004)

TurboTurtle said:


> What a silly statement (or troll. I'll bite). Have you removed them from your car? What is the point of knowing what is going on behind you, right?
> 
> TF



Hey, I've never used one- so I have no point of reference- and while at times I may be rude, insensitive, crass, ignorant, misinformed, opinionated, or generally misanthropic, I never troll!  

It appears to me that with their small size, and the perspective, it would be difficult sorting out the signal/noise of what really matters to me from behind. In other words, it is one thing to know that something is approaching, but it is another to know exactly where it is heading. I can certainly hear things behind me, so it isn't like I'm oblivious. 

BTW- I do wear a helmet and wouldn't even consider using headphones... I'm actually open to trying one- especially as the more I use my bike as transportation, the less I'm able to cherry-pick the safest routes to travel. Some dicey areas and up being unavoidable.

I don't ride high speed shoulderless roads- like I mentioned, it is an urban environment.


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## Ridgetop (Mar 1, 2005)

*Not a complete hijack, but gently changing topic*

Ok, as someone who is relatively new to the commute thing and never thought about riding with one on my touring and evening rides, which brand to you recommend? I've seen all types but never asked anyone what they think? Helmet mount? Handlebar mount? Actual brand names? I've had trucks almost blow me off the road enough time now that I get a little nervous and wouldn't mind having one when riding near logging operations and what not.


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## filtersweep (Feb 4, 2004)

Sounds like Take-A-Look is the general consensus- from what I've READ (never tried one).


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## perttime (Jun 27, 2005)

I do not use a mirror myself, but I also rarely share the road with cars. In my view:

Against using mirror
- aerodynamics 
- grams 
- relying on it too much
- one more thing on your bike that might be damaged or stolen
- uncoolness

For using a mirror
- You can get a visual on what is going on behind you, without turning your head.
- lots of people cannot look back without changing direction
- you might have something pretty important going on in front too


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## TurboTurtle (Feb 4, 2004)

Maybe it's just me - I'm curious. When driving in your auto, don't you keep track of what is behind you and off your rear quarters so that you know where the openings are if something unexpected happens? Aren't you aware of where everything is? Or do you drive just as oblivious with the cell phone off as you do with it on?

If you do drive aware, why do think that it would be LESS important on a bike when it's you against several tons of steel/plastic.

TF


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## filtersweep (Feb 4, 2004)

TurboTurtle said:


> Maybe it's just me - I'm curious. When driving in your auto, don't you keep track of what is behind you and off your rear quarters so that you know where the openings are if something unexpected happens? Aren't you aware of where everything is? Or do you drive just as oblivious with the cell phone off as you do with it on?
> 
> If you do drive aware, why do think that it would be LESS important on a bike when it's you against several tons of steel/plastic.
> 
> TF


Frankly, I spend the bulk of my driving time in one lane... if you think about it- even if you change lanes several times, the percentage of time switching is rather small- and that is the primary time I check my mirror- but I also follow it up with a quick glance to make sure I didn't miss something in a blind spot. To answer your question, I don't always check my mirror just driving down the road. I might pay particular attention if I'm being tailgated-

If you think about it, in a car, you are going relatively the same speed as other cars.

When I ride a bike, if there is some obstruction on the shoulder forcing me into traffic, I look over my shoulder to check traffic.


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## fbagatelleblack (Mar 31, 2005)

bigrider said:


> I think they keep you worrying and looking at where you are not going.


For me, mirrors do just the opposite; they allow me to KEEP looking where I'm going while I monitor what's going on in back of me. I can flick my eyes up to the mirror, which gives me a great view of the entire roadway behind me, while still having my eyes facing generally forward. It takes about a millisecond or less to flick my eyes back to focusing on the road in front of me if I catch movement in my periphrial vision. Compare that to how long its takes to swing your head back and forth to check behind you... 

So, call me Lord Phred of All Phreds, but mirrors just make too much sense to me to give them up for fashion concerns. Try one for a few weeks. I don't think you'll go back.

I wish I remembered the brand and model of the mirror I use. It's great... Relatively big (~1.5"X1" oval) with a flexible shaft for unlimited adjustment.

Yours,

Forbes Bagatelle-Black
Santa Clarita, CA


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## damon (Dec 24, 2001)

*Bad analogy*



TurboTurtle said:


> Maybe it's just me - I'm curious. When driving in your auto, don't you keep track of what is behind you and off your rear quarters so that you know where the openings are if something unexpected happens?


I definitely understand your point about mirrors, and i am definitely not one to say "they are stupid", but i haven't put one on yet. Some day i might.

I have to disagree with your car/bike analogy. I'd even have to disagree with a motorcycle/bike analogy. Car manufacturers in particular spend hundreds of thousands of dollars to give you a driving experience that isolates you from your environment. This is predominately through sound, although a lot of recent automobiles have rediculously small windows that are near impossible to see out of as well.

Bikes don't do that. You can indeed hear what is coming up behind you, and you can easily look over your shoulder to see behind you - neither of which can be done in a car. I find hearing indespensible in commuting because it is a passive warning device, but that is not the question here, i suppose...

Good commuter thread, though.


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## TurboTurtle (Feb 4, 2004)

damon said:


> I definitely understand your point about mirrors, and i am definitely not one to say "they are stupid", but i haven't put one on yet. Some day i might.
> 
> I have to disagree with your car/bike analogy. I'd even have to disagree with a motorcycle/bike analogy. Car manufacturers in particular spend hundreds of thousands of dollars to give you a driving experience that isolates you from your environment. This is predominately through sound, although a lot of recent automobiles have rediculously small windows that are near impossible to see out of as well.
> 
> ...


1 - I ride behind you guys all the time who "..can indeed hear what is coming up behind you..." Believe, you don't have a clue what's going on back there.

2 - If you don't like the car analogy, obviously you don't keep track of everything around you while driving either. This may be a major point. I know what's there at all times - car, bike or motorcycle. Apparently, most only care about what is in front of them.

3 - "...find hearing indespensible in commuting because it is a passive warning device..." A mirror is an active warning device??? Haven't a clue what you are saying here.

TF


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## damon (Dec 24, 2001)

TurboTurtle said:


> 1 - Believe, you don't have a clue what's going on back there.
> 
> 2 - I know what's there at all times
> 
> 3 - Haven't a clue what you are saying here.


First of all, you need to relax a little bit. I don't really appreciate the condecending tone, but maybe it is that whole "lost in internet translation thing". Who knows.

1. People have their own beliefs. What is right for you isn't necessarily right or correct for everyone.

2. Fact of the matter is, a car impedes your visibility (you can't see through A, B, or C pillars), and a car impedes your ability to hear (there is something between your ears and what is around you, typically)

3. Passive warning device = something that works without you putting any effort into it. For example, no matter what you are doing, your ears are hearing what is around you.
Active warning device = something that you have to put some thought into. Your mirror won't help you unless you look at it.

I'm glad you've found what works for you,

-Damon


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## cbbaron (Apr 18, 2003)

I think these are probably the best helmet mirrors around.
http://www.hubbub.com/store/proddetail.asp?prod=helmir
Hand made using a bicycle spoke for the arm they are sturdy and provide a great view.

I find a mirror very useful. Very few roads on my commute have a shoulder and those that do have tons of glass and other debris, so I am usually taking a lane. But othen those "lanes" are unmarked, include parked cars or are wider than average. This allows the inconsiderate motorist to try to pass me without room. So I keep a constant eye on the traffic behind me to watch for inconsiderate motorists. The mirror also makes it much easier to change lanes if parked cars or construction obstruct the lane I travel in. If every where had wide clean shoulders then perhaps I wouldn't use a mirror but I my commute I wouldn't be without.
Craig


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## slowrider (Mar 12, 2004)

Quick mirror story. I use a racing cat eye mirror attached to my flat bar. I saw a car coming up behind me, drifting into the shoulder. I followed it in my mirror until the car past me. Over half of the car was in the shoulder, and came about a foot away from me. The lady was talking on her phone. If I did not see her, and move over a few more feet, she would have killed me. I sprinted after her for a couple of lights, when I caught up to her, she was still talking on the phone. I took a drink of water, then spit it out toward the road. I felt really bad that it landed on her windshield. Sorry. For my commute, and where I ride, I need my mirror. Also, I used front and rear lights, as well as reflective tape on all of my bikes. 



cbbaron said:


> I think these are probably the best helmet mirrors around.
> http://www.hubbub.com/store/proddetail.asp?prod=helmir
> Hand made using a bicycle spoke for the arm they are sturdy and provide a great view.
> 
> ...


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## TurboTurtle (Feb 4, 2004)

damon said:


> First of all, you need to relax a little bit. I don't really appreciate the condecending tone, but maybe it is that whole "lost in internet translation thing". Who knows.
> 
> 1. People have their own beliefs. What is right for you isn't necessarily right or correct for everyone.
> 
> ...


I did not intend to sound condencending, I intended to say you are wrong. I follow all kinds of riders every week, from "8 miles and a restaurant" types to Cat2/3 racers. None know what is going on behind them, including most with non-helmet/glasses mirrors. Not one. - TF


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## Nigeyy (Mar 30, 2003)

I use a mirror -it attaches to my helmet -can't remember the name of it though. After trying various mirrors, I've found helmet mounted ones the best. Anyway, why use it?

(i.) taking a left, I use a mirror to check to see if I can see any traffic (not that there is no traffic, there's a subtle difference there!) before I make a decision to do a shoulder check for moving out. I find it easier and safer to have a mirror for this reason alone on the often potholed roads I ride on. I prefer to limit my shoulder checking.

(ii.) it is good to know what's behind you at times -such as other vehicles *and* cyclists and where they are in the road (well, ok, other cyclists are only a problem if you're slow like me!). I can't honestly say I look in my mirror enough times to always spot a vehicle about to run over me from behind, but at least with a mirror I have a chance. Without one, I don't have that easy option to see what's behind me. In my mind, I'm increasing the chances of at least being able to make an emergency move and being aware that a vehicle may hit me.

(iii.) Handy when cycling with a friend -you can see if they have any trouble or not. It can save you cycling that extra 3 miles up that 1 in 3 grade until you turn around to see what the problem is.

(iv.) Good to know when you are caught out with a road hazard at very short notice whether or not you can take evasive maneouvres into a road. Sometimes, you don't have time to shoulder check.

Simply put: a mirror affords you more information about what's around you. I always consider it safer to have more information about road conditions than not. It's up to the individual cyclist whether or not you choose to have one, but I personally find it a little strange that people who cycle on the road choose not to (why choose to be less road aware??). If you get the right mirror, it can work very effectively and not be nuisance or distraction (as someone else has posted, why aren't vehicle mirrors a distraction? I think that's a poor argument at best).



filtersweep said:


> I was reading another forum where the group consensus was that mirrors were the greatest invention since the derailleur. I've never used one, and I don't really get it... .....Can someone enlighten me?


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## KeeponTrekkin (Aug 29, 2002)

*Mine's a "Third Eye"*

helmet mounted mirror and I wouldn't ride without it. There are just too many cars in New Jersey. Without it, I'd be looking back almost as much as forward.

When I first bought a mirror, I had a lot of trouble adjusting it. The Third Eye is my second and it works a lot better for me. It's round, 1 1/2 inches in diameter and gives a great view of the world behind me. I'm so used to it, I sometimes find myself looking for it when I'm a pedestrian.


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## TurboTurtle (Feb 4, 2004)

KeeponTrekkin said:


> helmet mounted mirror and I wouldn't ride without it. There are just too many cars in New Jersey. Without it, I'd be looking back almost as much as forward.
> 
> When I first bought a mirror, I had a lot of trouble adjusting it. The Third Eye is my second and it works a lot better for me. It's round, 1 1/2 inches in diameter and gives a great view of the world behind me. I'm so used to it, I sometimes find myself looking for it when I'm a pedestrian.


I tried the Third Eye and found the long Take-A-Look to be even better. Give one a try if you get a chance. - TF


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## ispoke (Feb 28, 2005)

*don't forget your SO!*

Chiming in a bit late on this one. I'm with RUSA. If you're lucky enough to ride with your Significant Other (as I am), and she/he is slower, then the mirror is a subtle way to keep from gapping them (at least by too much). Whether pacelining or climbing a long grade, it's a handy courtesy that doesn't involve an ego blow such as looking over the shoulder. Sometimes my wife smiles if she catches me glancing at her in the mirror. That's worth more than gold.

As for traffic, hearing is not enough for urban commutes. There are freeway entrances sweeping out from the right shoulder. A mirror helps identify whether that revving engine chose to pass on the right (a rare relief), or is attempting to pass on the left before cutting right across my front wheel at the last minute (much more likely). In a situation like this, the difference in velocities between car/bike is perhaps 20 mph, and distances are measured in feet or inches. I can hold a pretty straight line, but my mirrors have been grazed by city buses (don't get me started on them) passing too close and so I couldn't imagine risking even an inch of drift to look over the shoulder.

Style of mirror is clearly personal pref. I tried and couldn't stand helmet and glass mount types. I much prefer larger bike-mount types. The "third eye" at the end of the handlebar is nice and simple, although if you climb standing then you'll bump it with your knee on occasion. Now that I switched to bar end shifters, I'm using a B&M 901-3 which grips just under the brake lever, clamping around the curve in the drop bar. It allows full usage of the tops, hoods and drops, and has a clean elegant German design. So far I haven't had any gripes with vibration affecting bike-mount mirrors. Although they may require a hardware tightening every few weeks...


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## Dave_Stohler (Jan 22, 2004)

I generally use an eyeglass-mounted mirror when riding. I also endeavour to ride aty least 3' from the edge of the road or from cars parked. If I can see that somebody is about to graze me, I can move over at the last second. It also saves my neck from twisting too much, and I have neck problems, so it's a big help there.

About 4 years ago, some drunken psycho in a minivan decided to try to run me into the ditch. If it weren't for my mirror, I'd probably be dead now.


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## roadbikemike (Jan 8, 2005)

my mirror has saved me a couple of times as well. i use the mirror in conjuction w/quick peeks over my shoulder. 
interesting how my friends who would never wear a mirror like me to ride in back and let them know when there's a car back.


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