# What's hiding under your Specialized paint job



## cooper58 (Jan 31, 2007)

I know this voids my warranty but I decided to strip the paint off of my Specialized Crux cyclocross frame for a RAW finish and look what I found on the chain stay. I guess if they dent the frame during production they just slap some filler into the dented area and hide it under the paint job. NICE!! 

Here is the frame

<a href="https://s6.photobucket.com/albums/y229/cooper58/?action=view&current=IMAG0191-1.jpg" target="_blank"><img src="https://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y229/cooper58/IMAG0191-1.jpg" border="0" alt="Uploaded from the Photobucket Android App"></a>

Here is the damage I found under the paint

<a href="https://s6.photobucket.com/albums/y229/cooper58/?action=view&current=IMAG0187-1.jpg" target="_blank"><img src="https://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y229/cooper58/IMAG0187-1.jpg" border="0" alt="Uploaded from the Photobucket Android App"></a>

<a href="https://s6.photobucket.com/albums/y229/cooper58/?action=view&current=IMAG0188-1.jpg" target="_blank"><img src="https://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y229/cooper58/IMAG0188-1.jpg" border="0" alt="Uploaded from the Photobucket Android App"></a>


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## Waxbytes (Sep 22, 2004)

Did you buy the frame new from a Dealer?


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## RJP Diver (Jul 2, 2010)

cooper58 said:


> I know this voids my warranty but I decided to strip the paint off of my Specialized Crux cyclocross frame for a RAW finish and look what I found on the chain stay. I guess if they dent the frame during production they just slap some filler into the dented area and hide it under the paint job. NICE!!
> 
> Here is the damage I found under the paint
> 
> ...


Who cares? I would characterize that as a manufacturing imperfection rather than damage. Affects the bike not at all... unless one wants to strip all the paint off.

:thumbsup:


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## cooper58 (Jan 31, 2007)

Waxbytes said:


> Did you buy the frame new from a Dealer?


Yes, It was purchased from my local Specialized dealer.


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## Devastazione (Dec 8, 2011)

RJP Diver said:


> . Affects the bike not at all...
> :thumbsup:


Not sure about this one...


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## RJP Diver (Jul 2, 2010)

Devastazione said:


> Not sure about this one...


What impact do you think a minor cosmetic imperfection such as this would have on the bike?


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## ZoSoSwiM (Mar 7, 2008)

Intentionally filling a dent like that is bad mojo imo..


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## PlatyPius (Feb 1, 2009)

I'd be pretty pissed if I bought a new car and later found that there was a dent in one of the fenders that had been filled with Bondo.


Of course, the funny part is that you voided your warranty to find out that you need your warranty....


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## PJ352 (Dec 5, 2007)

No offense to the OP, but if this is as stated, IMO it poses two questions/ concerns. 

1) Do the other major companies do likewise with similar frame materials?
2) Once the damage was discovered, was alignment rechecked, because a hard enough impact _could_ cause alignment issues, which (in turn) could cause handling issues.

That aside, I'm of the opinion that when we purchase bikes from major brands at reputable LBS's, we do so expecting a higher level of quality/ QC and customer service - and are willing to pay extra to get it. If we weren't, many would go a cheaper route, like buying online (or similar). 

That given, I would've expected better from Spec on this, and would question purchasing an alu frame from them in the future. I may be misleading myself here, but considering that CF is more difficult and (in general) costly to repair, I'm of the mind that staying with CF may offer some advantages in this regard. Not because each and every CF frame would be perfect, but because the warranty would cover any defects - assuming no alterations were made.

I doubt you'll get any satisfaction from doing so, but I think I'd pursue something with Specialized through your LBS, then through the rep. The worst that will happen is that Spec will use the 'out' that by stripping the paint you altered the frame, voiding the warranty. OTOH, there's a chance that you _might_ fare better.


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## pwork (Feb 25, 2009)

N=1, interesting and not sure what to read into it.

I wonder if we did that to another one we wouldn't find the same thing. I'll have to look at the wife's ride, but I recall a "dent" placed about there as well to clear the crank. She has a disc version so it has 135mm spacing. Maybe they used the same tubeset, and didn't need it for the canti version. Pic 3's dent looks pretty well symetrically placed like a machine did it on purpose...Pic 2 not as much. Just a theory.

Edit: If you tap the CS, can you hear a difference in tone at that location? I have access to another one (still painted). It'd be interesting to try it my buddy's ride.


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## PJ352 (Dec 5, 2007)

pwork said:


> N=1, interesting and not sure what to read into it.
> 
> I wonder if we did that to another one we wouldn't find the same thing. I'll have to look at the wife's ride, but *I recall a "dent" placed about there as well to clear the crank. *She has a disc version so it has 135mm spacing. Maybe they used the same tubeset, and didn't need it for the canti version. Pic 3's dent looks pretty well symetrically placed like a machine did it on purpose...Pic 2 not as much. Just a theory.


That's commonly done so the inner chainring clears the chain stay (as shown in the 1st pic), but judging from the last pic, the dent looks to be on the non-drive side and well past where the crank would be.


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## Dave Hickey (Jan 27, 2002)

OP: did you remove a lot of the filler stripping the frame?


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## cooper58 (Jan 31, 2007)

Dave Hickey said:


> OP: did you remove a lot of the filler stripping the frame?


Yea, some if it came off with the stripper. I've been riding the bike for several months and clean the bike like crazy. There is no way you could tell the dent was under the paint. I guess you could say that they do a great job of covering up damage :blush2:


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## RkFast (Dec 11, 2004)

That is 100% unacceptable on a new frame. 

I dont care if you took the paint off to find it. 

You definitely have a case with Spesh and I would DEMAND a new frame. 

The bike is supposed to be "free of defective materials and workmanship."

If a dent and filler doesnt fall under "defective workmanship" I dont know what does.

And the fact you removed the paint to find it is IMMATERIAL. That is a big defect for a new bike, cosmetic or not. I would not take "no" for an answer on this one.


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## Waxbytes (Sep 22, 2004)

Well I'm not impressed that Specialized would pass off what amounts to a "factory second"
as a new frame. Very bad mojo in this kind of deceit. Glad my old Specialized is brushed aluminum with clearcoat, no place to hide a dent.


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## RJP Diver (Jul 2, 2010)

RkFast said:


> That is 100% unacceptable on a new frame.
> 
> I dont care if you took the paint off to find it.
> 
> ...


I'd love to be there when the OP shows up with the frame and explains that, while "yes I did strip it down to bare metal... I didn't do THAT to it."

:thumbsup:

Not saying that the defect is acceptable. Just that it will come across a bit as "I was just riding (sanding) along..."


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## The English Hacker (May 30, 2011)

I think it's more of a concern that they actually had body filler on-hand to fix the damage.


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## RkFast (Dec 11, 2004)

RJP Diver said:


> I'd love to be there when the OP shows up with the frame and explains that, while "yes I did strip it down to bare metal... I didn't do THAT to it."
> 
> :thumbsup:
> 
> Not saying that the defect is acceptable. Just that it will come across a bit as "I was just riding (sanding) along..."


Definitely an atypical situation but I think he still has a case.


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## Waxbytes (Sep 22, 2004)

The English Hacker said:


> I think it's more of a concern that they actually had body filler on-hand to fix the damage.


I wonder how much bondo they use up in a typical week?
Not a nice thought is it?


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## mpre53 (Oct 25, 2011)

I'm sure that the Chinese factories pull this more often than any of us realize. Unless an American company has a QC rep on-site over there, they'll try to sneak all kinds of crap by. Is it Specialized's fault? I'm sure that the frames are painted and finished over there. Once painted, how are they supposed to know? Are they supposed to ultrasound every frame that comes in? And it's probably not just limited to Specialized. I have friends in business that have materials manufactured in the PRC, and the use of sub-spec materials is a real concern. Factory managers try to cut costs and maximize profits any way they can.


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## Devastazione (Dec 8, 2011)

RJP Diver said:


> What impact do you think a minor cosmetic imperfection such as this would have on the bike?


I don't see just a cosmetic thing,I see a banged chain stay that may loose some of it's stiffness during harsh use conditions jeopardizing rider's safety. But if Specialized can guarantee this is not the case then more power to them


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## Dave Hickey (Jan 27, 2002)

mpre53 said:


> I'm sure that the Chinese factories pull this more often than any of us realize. Unless an American company has a QC rep on-site over there, they'll try to sneak all kinds of crap by. Is it Specialized's fault? I'm sure that the frames are painted and finished over there. Once painted, how are they supposed to know? Are they supposed to ultrasound every frame that comes in? And it's probably not just limited to Specialized. I have friends in business that have materials manufactured in the PRC, and the use of sub-spec materials is a real concern. Factory managers try to cut costs and maximize profits any way they can.


This is a great point....

I'm by no means defending Specialized as they choose the supplier but they might not know and they need to know....

The OP stated you could not detect this when painted..

I'd certainly bring it to their attention.....whether you demand a new frame is up to you...


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## PlatyPius (Feb 1, 2009)

Dave Hickey said:


> This is a great point....
> 
> I'm by no means defending Specialized as they choose the supplier but they might not know and they need to know....
> 
> ...


As much as I dislike Specialized, this is correct. Specialized would have no knowledge of damage like this.

This is a result of the "race to the bottom" - making everything as cheap as possible. The Chinese factory would likely have trouble absorbing the cost of a wasted frame because they've priced themselves so low. So, they just fix the damaged one.


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## firstrax (Nov 13, 2001)

That'll buff out.


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## DrRoebuck (May 10, 2004)

mpre53 said:


> I'm sure that the Chinese factories pull this more often than any of us realize. Unless an American company has a QC rep on-site over there, they'll try to sneak all kinds of crap by. Is it Specialized's fault? I'm sure that the frames are painted and finished over there. Once painted, how are they supposed to know? Are they supposed to ultrasound every frame that comes in? And it's probably not just limited to Specialized. I have friends in business that have materials manufactured in the PRC, and the use of sub-spec materials is a real concern. Factory managers try to cut costs and maximize profits any way they can.


With all the money they're saving outsourcing their manufacturing to 10-year-old Chinese workers, they should be able to afford decent quality control and oversight. The bike ships with their name on it, so it's ultimately their responsibility.

Instead of posting it here, the OP should send it to Bicycling and see if they'll do some actual journalism. This subject would make a great cover story.


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## rward325 (Sep 22, 2008)

firstrax said:


> That'll buff out.


I would love to rep you but you know the deal! 


I'm with mpre53 on this*.*


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## robdamanii (Feb 13, 2006)

PlatyPius said:


> As much as I dislike Specialized, this is correct. Specialized would have no knowledge of damage like this.
> 
> This is a result of the "race to the bottom" - making everything as cheap as possible. The Chinese factory would likely have trouble absorbing the cost of a wasted frame because they've priced themselves so low. So, they just fix the damaged one.


I'm surprised they're not just selling it on Dongfoo or something...


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## PJ352 (Dec 5, 2007)

DrRoebuck said:


> The bike ships with their name on it, so it's ultimately their responsibility.


Exactly. We can discuss the 'real world' conditions in name that plant on name that continent, but ultimately a companies rep rests on its end product.

Short term, shoddy or non-existent QC might not affect Spec's (or others) bottom line (profits), but long term I think history shows it will.

If the OP opts to get Spec involved, we might get an indication of their mindset - depending on the outcome.


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## letitsnow (Jul 9, 2011)

PlatyPius said:


> I'd be pretty pissed if I bought a new car and later found that there was a dent in one of the fenders that had been filled with Bondo.
> 
> 
> Of course, the funny part is that you voided your warranty to find out that you need your warranty....


Don't even remove the paint from your new car.

It is pretty common...


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## Aindreas (Sep 1, 2010)

DrRoebuck said:


> Instead of posting it here, the OP should send it to Bicycling and see if they'll do some actual journalism. This subject would make a great cover story.


This.



/I take back what I said earlier about you being dead to me.


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## innergel (Jun 14, 2002)

DrRoebuck said:


> Instead of posting it here, the OP should send it to Bicycling and see if they'll do some actual journalism. This subject would make a great cover story.


I can see the headlines now "Is one of our largest advertisers trying pass off dented frames from their Chinese factory to unsuspecting US customers?" I'm sure they'll be right on this story.


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## Andrea138 (Mar 10, 2008)

Yeah... I'll make a psychic prediction and say that Specialized will tell him to pound sand and Bicycling won't return any emails or phone calls.


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## Chain (Dec 28, 2006)

DrRoebuck said:


> With all the money they're saving outsourcing their manufacturing to 10-year-old Chinese workers, they should be able to afford decent quality control and oversight. The bike ships with their name on it, so it's ultimately their responsibility.


Actually if that frame was made by a 10 year old, that's quite impressive. I need to get my 9yo some jigs and have her start pumping out some frames. Slacker just goes to school and skis on the weekends..... kids these days...


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## cooper58 (Jan 31, 2007)

On a positive note check the weight after all the paint was removed.


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## Bocephus Jones II (Oct 7, 2004)

cooper58 said:


> I know this voids my warranty but I decided to strip the paint off of my Specialized Crux cyclocross frame for a RAW finish and look what I found on the chain stay. I guess if they dent the frame during production they just slap some filler into the dented area and hide it under the paint job. NICE!!


Is nobody else gonna call BS on this story? Why on earth would someone want no paint on an AL bike? Why would someone go through the effort of stripping the paint off a brand new bike in the first place unless there was something wrong with it? 

Here's my guess...the OP dented his new frame. He figured he could strip it and repaint, but didn't have the skills to do a good job, the dent was too big to properly repair or found out that it would cost more than he originally thought. OP then decides to see if he can get Spesh to send him a new frame under warranty. Spesh tells him to pound sand and sends him a cease and desist letter about disparaging their brand by saying they bondo their damaged frames and sell them as new.


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## pwork (Feb 25, 2009)

*update*



pwork said:


> N=1, interesting and not sure what to read into it.
> 
> I wonder if we did that to another one we wouldn't find the same thing. I'll have to look at the wife's ride, but I recall a "dent" placed about there as well to clear the crank. She has a disc version so it has 135mm spacing. Maybe they used the same tubeset, and didn't need it for the canti version. Pic 3's dent looks pretty well symetrically placed like a machine did it on purpose...Pic 2 not as much. Just a theory.
> 
> Edit: If you tap the CS, can you hear a difference in tone at that location? I have access to another one (still painted). It'd be interesting to try it my buddy's ride.


Update: Wifey's bike did not have an "dent" in either CS to allow for the crank...must have saw that on another bike. Also took a piece of metal and taped it down the side...no difference in tone.


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## cooper58 (Jan 31, 2007)

Bocephus Jones II said:


> Is nobody else gonna call BS on this story? Why on earth would someone want no paint on an AL bike? Why would someone go through the effort of stripping the paint off a brand new bike in the first place unless there was something wrong with it?
> 
> Here's my guess...the OP dented his new frame. He figured he could strip it and repaint, but didn't have the skills to do a good job, the dent was too big to properly repair or found out that it would cost more than he originally thought. OP then decides to see if he can get Spesh to send him a new frame under warranty. Spesh tells him to pound sand and sends him a cease and desist letter about disparaging their brand by saying they bondo their damaged frames and sell them as new.


First off I'm not trying to get Specialized to warranty my frame. At the time I purchased this new frame the only color they had was pink and the generic (red,black & white) color that looked like a cheap walmart paint scheme. I though it would grow on me so I purchased the frame. After riding the frame and loving the fit I didn't want to sell it and change frames. Plus the newer CRUX has a BB30 and it would require me to change cranksets. Call B.S. all you want just remember some people don't like cookie cutter bikes.


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## jmontgomery (Jul 8, 2011)

PlatyPius said:


> I'd be pretty pissed if I bought a new car and later found that there was a dent in one of the fenders that had been filled with Bondo.
> .


It's pretty common for new cars to need bodywork done by the time they get to the dealership. I'd bet one out of every twenty get damaged on the way.


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## cooper58 (Jan 31, 2007)

This is why I removed the paint off my bike. I like the looks better and it dropped over a pound off the bike. I covered the damaged area with a sticker so it's not too bad of an eye sore.

Before: 









After:


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## metoou2 (Mar 18, 2009)

Did you shoot some clear coat of some type on the raw alloy?
Without it, the frame will oxidize to a very dull (UGLY) grey color.


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## GTR2ebike (Jun 30, 2011)

metoou2 said:


> Did you shoot some clear coat of some type on the raw alloy?
> Without it, the frame will oxidize to a very dull (UGLY) grey color.


He says he clear coated it, I thought the same as you until a few months ago.
Raw aluminum oxidizes the second air touches it, it's not ugly. Look at turner mountain bike frames they have had raw ones for years. The great thing about that is the use of scotchbrite, your frame always looks new.


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## metoou2 (Mar 18, 2009)

Ya, I knew about the quick oxidation. People will mistakenly say that aluminum alloy won't corrode. While in fact it oxidizes faster than most any alloy. It forms that skin and then its over, no more corrosion. 

I guess its a matter of taste, I just don't like that dull grey oxidized alloy look.


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## metoou2 (Mar 18, 2009)

@ Cooper 58, you do good work. You achieved some very nice results.

Has Bicycle Mag or Velonews called?


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