# Cannondale - which one makes sense?



## sjbrook (Nov 11, 2008)

I'm back on the bike after a 19 year layoff (I'm 45). Riding a 1989 Centurion Accordo. Nothing special but a good solid low-middle for it's day (bought it new and then moved from NYC to car culture FL). As I've been getting back into condition I've been slowly becoming more desireous of a new bike. Although I have a predjudice towards steel, that is borne of coming of age in the 70's and 80's. I realize that unless I want mass produced 520 tig welded that isn't any significant improvement over what I have now then I pretty much need to go the custom frame route. It just doesn't seem like a wise or necsessary direction just because I've always lusted for artwork level quality lugs.

So based on the local market availability of major brand names (the market being Orlando), Cannondale holds the most appeal to me. This is partially an emotional consumer response to my memory of their first aluminum fattys that were so intriguing (and out of reach) back in the 80's, but also because they are still produced in the USA (at least as far as I can tell). Nothing against Taiwan based manufacturing but it is nice to sometimes buy a mostly domestic product (at least the design engineering and the frame production).

From the current 2009 catalog three bikes kind of stand out for me:

CAAD9 (5, 6 and 7)
Synapse (5)
Six (6 and 5)

I'm having a hard time figuring out the critical differences between the frame designs. 

- All have AL main triangles and CF forks 
- Synapse and CAAD9 have AL stays
- Six have CF stays
- CAAD9 geometry and stiffness geared towards racing?
- Synapse geometry and stiffness geared toward more fitness/comfort?
- Six geared towards ???

I am not racing. I am not touring. I am fitness and enjoyment. I am finding that the geometry on my Centurion is a little too hard on my back for riding the hoods (which is my preferred) so something a little more upright would probably be better. I suspect the frame may actually be a tad to big (TT length). Back in the day it was sold as a 25", measuring the BB to ST it is 63.5cm. Never really sized to me beyond standover (got an inch? ok, it fits).

Also wondering if any of the above three is a better choice for strength. I know the wheels are a part of that equation but I am 6'3" @ 235lb so if there is a reason to stay away from a particular frame it would be good to know.

Any insights would be appreciated by this noob to current technology.


----------



## teffisk (Mar 24, 2006)

synapse, then its just how much you are willing to spend. and get fit at your lbs


----------



## jlyle (Jul 20, 2007)

After riding Cannondale Aluminum frame bicycles for many years, I switched to an all CF SuperSix. I wish I had tried the CF frames a long time ago. While I loved the stiffness and responsiveness of Al, the ride was very hard. CF gives you a softer, more comfortable ride and no loss of stiffness. IMHO, you should test ride a C'dale CF frame before you opt for Al or Al/CF.


----------



## sjbrook (Nov 11, 2008)

I spent an hour at the LBS today. Tried the CAAD9. Definitely not in my comfort range. A 58cm Synapse 5 felt pretty good although I'll need some modification on the handlebars. Want it a little closer and a little narrower.

Didn't try the Six Carbon 6. It's a bit more than what I was thinking of spending (trying to keep a hard ceiling at $1500). That being said I should probably give it a whirl. Another $300 really isn't that much for what is going to be a long term investment.


----------



## cyclust (Sep 8, 2004)

Mid 40's and haven't riden much for 19 years? The synapse is your bike. However, not to burst your bubble, but the synapse is made in the orient. The synapse is the perfect bike for older, less fit cyclists who just want a nice, comfortable bike. The positioning is higher and the handling is a little slower [ie. more stable]. If you feel like the stem needs to be shorter, it may just need to be higher. Hopefully the shop will let you try out a few stems until your position is right.


----------



## sjbrook (Nov 11, 2008)

Well as far as conditioning goes, I've been busting my ass daily on a mag resistance trainer for the past four months. I only started riding weekends outdoors in the past month waiting for the Florida summer to finally say goodbye. I'm finding a 20~25 mile ride at 15~20mph to be very pleasant and I look forward to working my way back to a higher fitness level with some local group rides. The trainer torture is still my M-F routine.

I'm realizing that I really feel no overwhelming need to replace the Centurion. It's in such immaculate condition (because it's hardly been ridden) that it really shocked my LBS. Time capsule stuff. I just think it would be more comfortable with newer components. I really like the ergonomics of the newer brake hoods and brifters. Thinking about maybe $500 worth of used DuraAce might bring it into the 21st century and push the replacement question out a little further into the future.


----------



## cyclust (Sep 8, 2004)

Everything about today's bikes is so much of an improvement over a 20 year old bike that it would be foolish to put a bunch of money into a bike that old. I recently bought an identical bike to the one I was riding in 1989, just for old times sake. I really loved that bike back then and it was one of the best. But it was a real disapointment compared to today's bikes. It is heavy, rides like crap, shifts like crap. It's a great looking bke, but can't compare to even today's lower end bikes. I think if you try out one of the bikes you had listed earlier, you will see what incredible advancements they have made. But if you do decide to upgrade the Centurion, I'd recomend maybe some 105 components. They would cost a fraction of the dura ace, work almost as well and be only slightly heavier.


----------



## hoehnt (Nov 7, 2008)

I had the same delema a few years back. I test rode the Synapse and the 613. The Synapse felt "dead" to me. Plus they are made in China. I loved the feel of the Six13. In the end I bought a used CAAD7 with full Campy Record and 15.2lbs for the price is the cheapest Six13 (they had some all black test bikes at the lbs with 105 components).
I just got back from a 50 mile ride and I sure dont regret getting the bike I did.


----------



## sjbrook (Nov 11, 2008)

cyclust said:


> Everything about today's bikes is so much of an improvement over a 20 year old bike that it would be foolish to put a bunch of money into a bike that old. I recently bought an identical bike to the one I was riding in 1989, just for old times sake. I really loved that bike back then and it was one of the best. But it was a real disapointment compared to today's bikes. It is heavy, rides like crap, shifts like crap. It's a great looking bke, but can't compare to even today's lower end bikes. I think if you try out one of the bikes you had listed earlier, you will see what incredible advancements they have made. But if you do decide to upgrade the Centurion, I'd recomend maybe some 105 components. They would cost a fraction of the dura ace, work almost as well and be only slightly heavier.


I don't disagree. Some of the advances over the past 20 years have been significant. I think though that the only real issues I have with this bike are some of the ergonomics. I thought about it after posting and realistically if I was going to update components it would make more sense to look for a deal on a 105 set or maybe even a Sora/Tiagra combo. I'm not going to be in a position to make the investment I would really like to make on a new ride for at least another 6~8 months. By which time I may feel that I am really deserving of it  (I've got residual guilt over never really putting significant miles on this bike. It's only about 1K).

Perhaps by the time I'm ready to buy I'll be more fit and comfortable on a CAAD9. Something about buying a bike specifically because it is easier to ride only pricks at my ego...


----------



## jlyle (Jul 20, 2007)

If the bike isn't comfortable, you won't ride it. While I loved my CAAD7, I haven't been on it since I bought my SuperSix.

The Synapse has a relaxed geometry which makes it good for long, day rides. The CAAD9 and SuperSix have the same, road racing geometry - great for fast club rides - but the all Aluminum CAAD9 is a very harsh ride compared to the SS.


----------



## sjbrook (Nov 11, 2008)

jlyle said:


> If the bike isn't comfortable, you won't ride it. While I loved my CAAD7, I haven't been on it since I bought my SuperSix.
> 
> The Synapse has a relaxed geometry which makes it good for long, day rides. The CAAD9 and SuperSix have the same, road racing geometry - great for fast club rides - but the all Aluminum CAAD9 is a very harsh ride compared to the SS.


I must admit I have been getting more and more curious about CF. Have not ridden a CF bike yet. More intrigued by the Six Carbon than by the Synapse Carbon. I am thrown off by one thing though. My LBS cautioned me that getting a CF frame wet has potential issues if you don't get the water out of it and get it dried out properly. I assume he is not bs-ing me as he loves CF and seems to sell a lot. Is this common wisdom or just informing a consumer of an extreme possibility? I don't try to ride in the rain but sometimes is unavoidable. Got caught out two weeks ago for about 12 miles. Spent 10 minutes wiping down and that was it. Is the ritual significantly different on CF?


----------



## zamboni (Sep 11, 2003)

Look for a new old stock on System Six if you can that is excellent bike.


----------



## cyclust (Sep 8, 2004)

I don't buy that crap about getting carbon wet. It's carbon fibers in epoxy. How could water hurt that? And what do they make the hulls out of on those mega buck racing boats they use in the America's Cup? Carbon fiber. Nuff said.


----------



## sjbrook (Nov 11, 2008)

cyclust said:


> I don't buy that crap about getting carbon wet. It's carbon fibers in epoxy. How could water hurt that? And what do they make the hulls out of on those mega buck racing boats they use in the America's Cup? Carbon fiber. Nuff said.


I think the issue is about water getting inside the frame, which I can see happening as there are some tiny holes under the bb and I would guess there is always a possibility at the component/frame junctures. But my G_d, how much water would have to get in to compromise the structural integrity? Just seemed like an odd caveat to be presented to me from someone with a vested interest in my buying one. Not that he was pressuring me. I have to say that so far this has been a very good experience and I haven't even spent a dime. Kudos to Outspoken in Lake Mary FL.


----------



## CHL (Jun 24, 2005)

Jlyle:

Man, I have the same problem. I have my Super Six and a CAAD4. I love my CAAD4 but I must admit, the Six has shattered my fidelity. It's hard to get back on the CAAD4 when the Six is far more efficient and comfortable.

CHL


----------



## ping771 (Apr 10, 2006)

sjbrook said:


> I don't disagree. Some of the advances over the past 20 years have been significant. I think though that the only real issues I have with this bike are some of the ergonomics. I thought about it after posting and realistically if I was going to update components it would make more sense to look for a deal on a 105 set or maybe even a Sora/Tiagra combo. I'm not going to be in a position to make the investment I would really like to make on a new ride for at least another 6~8 months. By which time I may feel that I am really deserving of it  (I've got residual guilt over never really putting significant miles on this bike. It's only about 1K).
> 
> Perhaps by the time I'm ready to buy I'll be more fit and comfortable on a CAAD9. Something about buying a bike specifically because it is easier to ride only pricks at my ego...


If you are not looking to buy now, then definitely wait the 6-8months. In this economy $1500 would be better saved rather than spent on a bike that depreciates 25% the moment you take delivery. I would just ride the Centurion this winter. 

When you are ready to buy, given what you said before, you would probably like the Synapse the best. Though the Six seems to have more comfort qualities than in the past, as the head tube is greatly increased. You'll be happy with either.


----------



## kneejerk (Feb 2, 2007)

With your age, the relative seat/handlebar height of the Centerion, you would be best served by either the "Six" or the "Synapse" because they have slightly higher "head" tubes (higher handlebar position). Of the two the Synapse has more "cruiser" geometry (although this is slight) which should provide a bit more stability, comfort. The Six seems to be more performance (racer) oriented. I like both of them, have ridden a Synapse in my size and liked it (around the block).


----------



## BrandonMetalSF (Oct 28, 2008)

I just bought an 09 C-dale Synapse Alloy 5 this past week, as it was inline with what you are looking for and within budget. I spent $1100 on mine, and have plans to upgrade a few things. 

Compared to the CAAD9, the Synapse is more relaxed with a more upright position. The CAAD9 is very aggressive. The Six 5 Alloy is the Al w/ carbon seatstays is somewhere in between the Synapse and CAAD9, but is made in Taiwan. From what I tried (and I tried a lot) carbon is something not to go cheap on. Lower-end carbon bikes all felt really dead to me, while the higher-end C-dale Al bikes didn't beat me up at all. 

The longest ride I've done so far is 33 miles on rough roads in SF and Marin county and at the end I could have done another 20. It was a smooth comfortable ride and the aluminum makes it stiff and quick on ascents. 

I have to admit, being the one of the only US-made production bikes in my price range didn't hurt, but the ride quality beat every bike I tried up to $2000 with the exception of a Jamis Quest (steel) that I couldn't get in my size. Some other bikes I tried and walked away from in favor of the lower priced Synapse:

-Specialized Roubaix (carbon)
-Felt Z35 (carbon)
-Felt Z70 (carbon/al)
-Specialized Alley (al)
-Jamis Ventura (al/carbon)
-C-dale Synapse 5 Carbon

My advice, save some cash, get a great bike, and then use the extra money to buy some goodies like a computer, nice pedals/shoes, a top notch saddle, etc. I'm using my extra money to upgrade to a full SRAM Rival drivetrain.


----------



## kneejerk (Feb 2, 2007)

BrandonMetalSF said:


> being the one of the only US-made production bikes in my price range didn't hurt,


Very good point here! One of the reasons I bought my CAAD 9 was the "made in the USA" factor! We really need to support our Economy as much as possible!..... Buy American made Cannondales!....


----------



## cyclust (Sep 8, 2004)

Absolutely! Ya know, there is so much talk about the economy and all, especially the hurting US auto makers. Here's an idea- instead of bailing out the big 3 auto makers, give a big tax rebate to anyone who buys an American car. Then add a hefty import duty to all imported cars. [like most countries do to our cars]. If the sale of American cars were to take off, the entire economy would take off. So much of our economy is dependent on the US auto industry. No wonder the economy is so bad right now. Honestly, I don't understand people. They holler about patriotism and run around with "support our troops" stickers on the back of their foreign cars. Bullshi+! If you want to really support America, buy American made products. It's as simple as that. And don't give me that crap about our cars not being as good. I drive a 99' Ford F150 with 347,000 miles on it. I haven't had to replace anything on that truck that wasn't routine maintenence. Let's face it- some products you just can't buy American anymore-like electronics, clothing, etc. Cars you can. {and a few bikes} So do. This American will thank you.


----------



## BrandonMetalSF (Oct 28, 2008)

Cyclust, I agree with wholeheartedly that Americans need to make more of a concerted effort to buy American goods. But I disagree that you can't buy clothes and electronic. You have to do some digging, but there are plenty of things out there – American Apparel, Swobo, and Seven Jeans are all made in LA. Many of New Balance's shoes are still made in New England. In cycling, a lot of Voler stuff is made in the US and Sheila Moon makes some great accessories right here in SF. And I just bought a pair of Pearl Izumi arm warmers and DeFeet socks both made in the US. Timbuk2 and Chrome still produce many of their bags right here in the Bay Area as well. Even for electronic, Olevia makes TVs (you can buy at Target) that are made stateside. It's not easy, but if you look at tags and keep your eyes peeled, you can still buy "Made in the USA".

Yes, to some of us it does matter, and it should matter to everyone.


----------



## OneGear (Aug 19, 2005)

Buying a few bike frames made in the USA won't help the economy all that much, but it will help the people that make them. Any american company will still keep the profits, just a percentage of the cost goes to a foreign company. If you like to be patriotic, then good on you. It is commendable. Just don't err on the side of xenophobia.

The CAAD9 is pretty aggressive. I would advise against upgrading the centurion, since a lot of things have changed, geometry, frame building techniques, etc. not to say that your Centurion is not well built, but sizing and standards may also have changed. Probably not, but it might be an inconveinent surprise.

if your back is not all that flexible, a higher head tube might be a good idea, get your LBS to fit you, and try all the bikes you can. I would go alum if you plan on racing or consider the poossibility of crashing. Not to say that Alum doesn't dent or break, but your loss on the frame will be much less. I believe Cannondale has a great replacement policy, but still, money is money, especially in this economy. If money is a real concern, just go with 105 10s, it's workable and affordable. and you won't bleed out your pockets trying to replace it. you could even ebay the new components and use the proceeds to subsidize used upper end components. The trick is a balance of wise spending and utility of purchase. Goodluck!

Unless your carbon frame is sealed tight like a glazed Krispy Kreme, water will get in. Small amounts can attack cracks in the epoxy or those nicks that you think are no biggie. Tighten your seatpost too much, and you will get cracks. It's small but it can build up. Not the biggest concern but it does happen.

I am biased though. I own a CAAD8.


----------

