# Mavic Ksyrium Elite Vs Cosmic Carbone SL



## jwk (Jun 17, 2011)

I have a question for the room. I currently own a set of Mavic Ksyrium Elites and while I love these wheels as they are very strong and bulletproof, I love the way the Cosmic Carbone's look. However, I been told by many that I should not use the Carbone's for a training wheel as they are thinner, lighter, and will not last as long as my Ksyriums. I also read that some owners had cracked rims and that was another deterrent.


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## rileyj (Feb 28, 2012)

*Cosmic Carbone SL for training*



jwk said:


> I have a question for the room. I currently own a set of Mavic Ksyrium Elites and while I love these wheels as they are very strong and bulletproof, I love the way the Cosmic Carbone's look. However, I been told by many that I should not use the Carbone's for a training wheel as they are thinner, lighter, and will not last as long as my Ksyriums. I also read that some owners had cracked rims and that was another deterrent.


I've been riding Cosmic Carbone SL Premium wheels (only difference is the skewers are titanium) on training rides 3-4 times per week for over 5 years now - probably 17K miles on them with no problems. I certainly don't baby them in that I'm also a pretty big guy: 6'2" & 200lbs. I originally bought them based on 'pro' reviews that called Carbone Clinchers bomb proof and very reliable. Great advice then and now!


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## jwk (Jun 17, 2011)

rileyj said:


> I've been riding Cosmic Carbone SL Premium wheels (only difference is the skewers are titanium) on training rides 3-4 times per week for over 5 years now - probably 17K miles on them with no problems. I certainly don't baby them in that I'm also a pretty big guy: 6'2" & 200lbs. I originally bought them based on 'pro' reviews that called Carbone Clinchers bomb proof and very reliable. Great advice then and now!


I ended up buying the SRAM S80's which are also built very tough and bomb proof. Did you ever have to get your wheels trued because of bumps??


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## rileyj (Feb 28, 2012)

jwk said:


> I ended up buying the SRAM S80's which are also built very tough and bomb proof. Did you ever have to get your wheels trued because of bumps??


Never had to true them at all. Mavic just makes good wheels, period. Their hubs are just timeless, although they used to ship them with dry bearings for some reason. A little grease and they're perfect. Sure some people have problems from time to time, but that's certainly the exception. I just retired a pair of 2nd Gen SSC SLs after about 9 years. They probably had at least 45K miles on them. Had to replace the front rim with rebuild by my LBS after a bad crash in '05 and lost a few spokes over the years on the rear. Just replaced the broken spoke and kept riding them. Maybe a minor blip off true. Noticable in the stand, but you couldn't feel it on the bike. Finally developed cracks around two of the spoke nuts. I would have just replaced the rim, but Mavic no longer makes them. The newer ones are slightly different. Don't know anything about SRAM wheels other than what I've seen online and in a few magazines when they first came out. Best of luck with them.


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## jwk (Jun 17, 2011)

rileyj said:


> Never had to true them at all. Mavic just makes good wheels, period. Their hubs are just timeless, although they used to ship them with dry bearings for some reason. A little grease and they're perfect. Sure some people have problems from time to time, but that's certainly the exception. I just retired a pair of 2nd Gen SSC SLs after about 9 years. They probably had at least 45K miles on them. Had to replace the front rim with rebuild by my LBS after a bad crash in '05 and lost a few spokes over the years on the rear. Just replaced the broken spoke and kept riding them. Maybe a minor blip off true. Noticable in the stand, but you couldn't feel it on the bike. Finally developed cracks around two of the spoke nuts. I would have just replaced the rim, but Mavic no longer makes them. The newer ones are slightly different. Don't know anything about SRAM wheels other than what I've seen online and in a few magazines when they first came out. Best of luck with them.


The one thing I do like about the SRAM is the fairing carbon fiber is actually structual where the Mavic is just a fairing, thus the SRAMS are a little stronger but my kysariam elites are also bulletproof so don't think it really matters. I'd be happy with either sram of mavics, but the mavic carbones were too expensive


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## kreative (Mar 1, 2012)

@rileyj: I'm also interested in the cosmic carbone sl's. May I ask what type of riding you do? How well do they work for climbing?


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## jwk (Jun 17, 2011)

kreative said:


> @rileyj: I'm also interested in the cosmic carbone sl's. May I ask what type of riding you do? How well do they work for climbing?


I have no idea as I never went up hills but according to many they are known for being very good for hills.


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## rileyj (Feb 28, 2012)

kreative said:


> @rileyj: I'm also interested in the cosmic carbone sl's. May I ask what type of riding you do? How well do they work for climbing?


While I would not consider Cosmic Carbone SLs climbing wheels, unless you're planning on a steady diet of real climbs (think N. Georgia, W. Carolina, Colorado, etc) I think they work pretty well for most rolling and hilly rides. That describes most of my current rides. They're stiff, fast at speed, and the hubs are smooth and proven very durable. I can get out of the saddle and crank pretty darn hard without any flex or loss of power. I've read all the opinions that they are 'heavy', but we're talking the weight of a Quarter Pounder w/cheese when comparing them to Zipp 404 clinchers. Two QP w/cheese comparing them to the Zipp 101 clinchers. As I said in an earlier post on this thread, at 6'2" and 200 lbs I definitely fall into the clydesdale category. Maybe when I'm at 6% body fat I'll consider climbing wheels. I'm planning a trip to Boone, NC to ride with my brother-in-law this fall and will undoubtedly gear down (12-27) and maybe go compact, but I'll be riding my Carbones. My only negative thoughts on CC SLs or any deep rim wheels for that matter are cross winds. You have to pay attention on windy days or when a big rig passes you on the road. You can lose your line pretty quickly.


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## jwk (Jun 17, 2011)

rileyj said:


> While I would not consider Cosmic Carbone SLs climbing wheels, unless you're planning on a steady diet of real climbs (think N. Georgia, W. Carolina, Colorado, etc) I think they work pretty well for most rolling and hilly rides. That describes most of my current rides. They're stiff, fast at speed, and the hubs are smooth and proven very durable. I can get out of the saddle and crank pretty darn hard without any flex or loss of power. I've read all the opinions that they are 'heavy', but we're talking the weight of a Quarter Pounder w/cheese when comparing them to Zipp 404 clinchers. Two QP w/cheese comparing them to the Zipp 101 clinchers. As I said in an earlier post on this thread, at 6'2" and 200 lbs I definitely fall into the clydesdale category. Maybe when I'm at 6% body fat I'll consider climbing wheels. I'm planning a trip to Boone, NC to ride with my brother-in-law this fall and will undoubtedly gear down (12-27) and maybe go compact, but I'll be riding my Carbones. My only negative thoughts on CC SLs or any deep rim wheels for that matter are cross winds. You have to pay attention on windy days or when a big rig passes you on the road. You can lose your line pretty quickly.


Riley, you seem to know a lot about wheels. I am a new rider and not a racer. I am primarily a runner. But anyway, I have a question for you. I normally ride on the bike trail and run over tiny pebbles, tiny thin branches no thicker than half the diameter of a pencil, but when riding I hear a "pop" which sounds like a little firecracker going off. I cannot differentiate between maybe my spokes are losing tension or is that just when you run over a branch, it creates maybe an air bubble in it's core, causing a firecracker kind of noise or is that my spokes coming undone? Sounds like every time I popped a spoke but folks tell me when you pop a spoke or if the spoke is loosing tension it will be a high pitched ping.


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## rileyj (Feb 28, 2012)

If you're running over the debris you describe, you may be just shooting the rocks, sticks, etc out from under your tires as you roll along or the sticks are breaking under the load. Carbon wheels have a weird applification effect that creates a pretty loud low tone pop when you hit something. The little wheel sounds on standard wheels are also crazy loud and disconcerting with carbon fiber wheels. You're obviously not breaking spokes. Most steel spokes laced on standard hubs make a pinging sound when they break in my experience. On the other hand, the first broken spoke on my old Ksyrium SSC SLs sounded like a gun shot. I think the real danger you face is going to be flats. The more stuff you hit, the greater the chance you'll drive something into your tire or cut the sidewall. I try to miss most of the junk on the roads and will change routes if a road is consistently covered with debris. I used to ride some on a river walk trail that sounds like where you ride. Over time, I all but eliminated it for training based the obstacle course effect. As you gain confidence in your bike handling, consider getting out on the roads. They tend to be cleaner. Watch those cross winds though!


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## jwk (Jun 17, 2011)

rileyj said:


> If you're running over the debris you describe, you may be just shooting the rocks, sticks, etc out from under your tires as you roll along or the sticks are breaking under the load. Carbon wheels have a weird applification effect that creates a pretty loud low tone pop when you hit something. The little wheel sounds on standard wheels are also crazy loud and disconcerting with carbon fiber wheels. You're obviously not breaking spokes. Most steel spokes laced on standard hubs make a pinging sound when they break in my experience. On the other hand, the first broken spoke on my old Ksyrium SSC SLs sounded like a gun shot. I think the real danger you face is going to be flats. The more stuff you hit, the greater the chance you'll drive something into your tire or cut the sidewall. I try to miss most of the junk on the roads and will change routes if a road is consistently covered with debris. I used to ride some on a river walk trail that sounds like where you ride. Over time, I all but eliminated it for training based the obstacle course effect. As you gain confidence in your bike handling, consider getting out on the roads. They tend to be cleaner. Watch those cross winds though!


Riley, I am very impressed with your ability to understand the questions being asked of you and your response. That is exactly the kind of noise I hear. But oddly on some of the 
"loud low tone pops," I cannot even feel the twig I ran over. I would say in some cases I would feel my tire run over the twig and in others I don't feel anything and it is during not feeling any twig under my tire do I suspect my tensions on my spoke are loosening up. Since my wheels are brand new, only 60 miles on it is it possible that the spokes are "bedding in" where they are loosening a bit from not being properly "stress relief" at factory? I would tend to think not as they would be a high ping noise than a loud low tone pop right? I have never heard a high pitched pinging so am pretty sure they have never loosened up. Anyway, just two more questions. In the event I ever have to get these aluminum clinchers re-trued, I am fearful of bringing it to any bikeshop, knowing most mechanics do not use a tension meter to ensure uniformity. Do you know of any professional wheel builder that I can send them out to, to have them professionally done? Also, I notice that on the surface of my carbon, there seems to be tiny pinholes and been told that will weaken the wheel and eventually allow moisture to get in, causing delamination. Also been told since the carbon is "unidirectional," any damage to the carbon will result in the whole strand being comprimised. But SRAM told me they never had a wheel fail because of stone chips


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## Elpimpo (Jan 16, 2012)

Those wheels are loud as hell!

Take the stickers off or something.


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## rileyj (Feb 28, 2012)

I guess it's possible that your wheels are settling in a bit, but I'm not sure you really have anything to worry about. Spin your wheels while you watch the rim in relation to one of the brake pads. If you don't see any evidence of sway in the rim, you're fine. New wheels do creak under load.  Sometimes spoke nipples aren't greased properly and squeek. If you ever need to have your wheels trued, I'd put my faith in a good mechanic (wheel man) rather than the tension meter. Wheels (good quality wheels) normally go out of true based on some kind of trauma - crash, pothole, big rock, dropped water bottle, broken spoke, etc. Getting the wheel back in true becomes an art at that point. I don't know any true professional wheel builders. I don't know how much they might charge, but I'm not sure it would be cost effective for a $1400 set of wheels. One of the most important things for you to do as a new rider is to find a good/great local mechanic. I have a personal friend and mechanic who's been wrenching and building or fixing wheels for 20+ years.You can find someone too. Talk to other riders. Guys earn reputations over time for good work. Finally, it's tough to speculate on the pin holes you're describing without seeing the actual wheels. What I've seen in other wheels are drain holes to let moisture escape from the interior of the rims. Water tends to run down the spokes as the wheels spin and accumulate in the rims or even in the tires. The holes are supposed to help the water drain rather than accumulate.


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## jwk (Jun 17, 2011)

rileyj said:


> I guess it's possible that your wheels are settling in a bit, but I'm not sure you really have anything to worry about. Spin your wheels while you watch the rim in relation to one of the brake pads. If you don't see any evidence of sway in the rim, you're fine. New wheels do creak under load. Sometimes spoke nipples aren't greased properly and squeek. If you ever need to have your wheels trued, I'd put my faith in a good mechanic (wheel man) rather than the tension meter. Wheels (good quality wheels) normally go out of true based on some kind of trauma - crash, pothole, big rock, dropped water bottle, broken spoke, etc. Getting the wheel back in true becomes an art at that point. I don't know any true professional wheel builders. I don't know how much they might charge, but I'm not sure it would be cost effective for a $1400 set of wheels. One of the most important things for you to do as a new rider is to find a good/great local mechanic. I have a personal friend and mechanic who's been wrenching and building or fixing wheels for 20+ years.You can find someone too. Talk to other riders. Guys earn reputations over time for good work. Finally, it's tough to speculate on the pin holes you're describing without seeing the actual wheels. What I've seen in other wheels are drain holes to let moisture escape from the interior of the rims. Water tends to run down the spokes as the wheels spin and accumulate in the rims or even in the tires. The holes are supposed to help the water drain rather than accumulate.


Hey Riley, thanks for all the great advice! I am an avid marathon runner so if you have any questions regarding running I can help you here. Cycling has never really appealed to me until last year and it seems that running is a lot more mainstream than cycling. However, at the bike trail 90% of the people I see are on bikes and for every 1 runner you see there will be 8 cyclist. However, there is only a few bike races a year where I am from but thousands of running races. For some reason, cycling just doesn't seem to be as popular as it is in Europe. As for me, the reason I have recently took up cycling is because of the new wheels I got. If I just had training wheels, cycling would be something just for cross training but ever since getting my SRAM S80's I now prefer cycling over running. The hardest part of switching sports is I am an accomplished runner where cycling I am a beginner. And I guess to me the gold standard is the full "Marathon" and cycling seems too easy. Anyway, I bought these new brake pads, I bought Koolstops which boast they pick up less debris than any other brands. Well after buying a pair, they were too wide, almost touching my upper tire and carbon on my wheel. I called Koolstop and they sent me their latest but it does not have that drop off to knock particles and debris off. I been told to "tow in" the brake pad but it's a real pain doing that as I cannot seem to get the pads to line up correctly. May I ask do you tow in yours or do you just mount them flush? If you ask me, I don't think it really makes that much of a difference. My feeling is, if you ride in rain it will get particles trapped. I only ride on sunny days and I clean my rims after every ride. Oh and by the way, I accidentely must have moved my brakes over, so the last 20 miles, one pad was grabbing the rim before the other, causing wheel to be pulled over about 3/4 of an inch I am guessing. I purposely long time ago, created more slack in the brakes so the pads were wider apart and I had to squeeze the brakes longer to get them to contact, thus since my brakes somehow got pushed aside, one pad was pushing my wheel all the way over before the other pad made contact. Do you think that could have caused any stress?


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## bikesta (Dec 2, 2011)

jwk, is that a bell on your bike?


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## rileyj (Feb 28, 2012)

Thanks for the offer on the running, but I haven't run a step since 2004 following my third knee scope in 4 years. Orthopod told me he could predict the year he would replace my knee if I didn't stop. The cycling equivilent to the marathon is the century - metric (100 K) or full (100 M). Start training for either at a 18-19 mph avg speed and you'll remove some of the easy from your workouts. Koolstop makes excellent aftermarket pads - I use them too! I do not tow in my brake pads. Years ago, that was the recommended solution for squealing brakes. I think the squeal was more about grime on the braking surface or inferior brake pad materials than how the pads contacted the rims. I certainly don't see any mechanical advantage to not having the pads contact the braking surface flush. I'm convinced the whole tow in thing falls into the tribal lore category of cycling advice at this point. I have confidence that the engineers at Shimano, Sram, and Campagnolo have designed their brakes to provide the best stopping power without user modification. Your 105 brakes are dual pivot calipers that uniformly bring the pads into contact flush with the rim. If you start to get some squeal, clean your rims and make sure there is nothing imbedded in the brake pad. You can also try roughing up the pad surface with course grade sand paper. If that doesn't work, replace the pads.
You really need to properly adust your brakes. There is a great website with quality repair tips from Park Tools (the Rolls Royce of bike tools). The forum rules don't allow me to inbed links, so Google Park Tools and follow the repair help tab. Much better approach than me trying to explain what to do. Don't get too impressed with my advice. I'm just another Joe Schmoe on the internet. I'll gladly provide opinion or describe experience, but for technical stuff it's best to reference experts. There's way too much tribal lore and flat out myth being recycled on these forums. The Park site is a great start that I use all the time.


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