# Defy Advanced frameset wanted



## Weinbergfahrer (Jul 8, 2009)

Hi guys,

I'm planning to set up a new bike in the "plush ride" category.

Was pretty much convinced to go C'dale Synapse, but now I was told to also take a long hard look at the Giant Defy Advanced.

From a design standpoint, I'd prefer this frameset over any complete bike, but so far couldn't find a dealer that has it in stock.

Any pointers are greatly appreciated!  

Thanks,
Weinbergfahrer


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## mwirwin (Jun 8, 2008)

I just ordered a Defy Advanced frame from my LBS - it will arrive next week. It's the 2010 model - identical in specs except for the color scheme to the above. Did you ever purchase yours? I'd be interested in hearing how you built it up and your opinion on the ride.

I'll be putting an Ultegra group on mine with a Cane Creek wheelset, Bontrager stem and bars, Selle Italia seat - basically I'm moving everything over from the Scattante that I built up.

If you haven't purchased yet, I would recommend contacting Giant directly in Southern Cal. They referred me to a shop in NorCal - paid $1550 plus tax.


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## Weinbergfahrer (Jul 8, 2009)

Thanks for your input!

How does the 2010 color scheme look like? Would you mind posting a pic?
And where from did you get frameset?

Unfortunately, I couldn't yet get a hold of the pictured frameset, it appears to belong to a very rare species... 

As a side note:
From one bike shop I learned that the Defy Advanced has essentially the same technical specs as the TCR Advanced, just the geometry is a bit more relaxed (tending to recreational riders - like me ). Since the TCR Advanced got plenty of positive reviews, I thought it may well be worth to give it a try. I hope, it really works out that way!

Please post your impressions after the first ride!


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## Comer (Jan 13, 2009)

I have the 2010 Defy Advanced 0 with full DA 7900 and DA tubeless carbon wheels, I like it. I was riding a Cervelo S3. I got tired of a 12cm drop.


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## mwirwin (Jun 8, 2008)

My 2010 Defy Advanced came in early! Just picked it up and assembled the fork and seat post for picture. Came with an FSA headset, a fullset carbon spacers, an extra derailleur hangar, and derailleur adjustment barrels.

This frame requires a press fit bottom bracket. I bought a Dura-Ace for $50. There are other brands available and they're all around the same price (except for the Campy!)

Initially, there appeared to be some scratches just underneath the seat post collar. I asked my LBS about it and they said that the paint has to be removed from the top of teh seat tube to glue the collar directly to the carbon fiber. In other words, it's normal.

I'll be building the frame up with an Ultegra gruppo, a Cane Creek wheelset, a Selle Italia seat, and Ritchey handlebars. I'll have to take some measurements to decide on a stem - I'm partial to Bontrager, but I may look for a Specialized with the adjustable angle.

I'll send another picture when it's built up.

I have to admit that I got lucky - I had walked into my LBS and the local Giant rep was in the store talking to the staff. Got to ask lots of questions and got the new catalog. So your LBS might have new info.


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## mwirwin (Jun 8, 2008)

BTW - Originally, I had been considering the Roubaix and the Defy. I was looking for a comfort oriented frame for fast century rides. Found lots of Roubaix's to try but it didn't feel as comfortable as the Defy. I'm short, so the higher stand over on the Roubaix was a big factor for me.

But I couldn't find any LBS' that stocked a Defy Advanced in an XS. However, a few dealers stocked the women's version, the Avail - the specs are almost identical (may a few mm here and there. After trying out the XS Avail, I was convinced. The 2010 Avail Advanced 1 actually has the coolest paint job out of the whole line. Naked carbon black with silver outline lettering. The only thing that makes it look like a women's bike is some paisley details that are barely noticeable. If I was buying a full bike for the looks, that's the one I'd go for. Too bad they don't offer a frame-only option on that Avail Advanced 1.


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## Weinbergfahrer (Jul 8, 2009)

@Comer
Hi, great to hear from you, as you are coming from a thoroughbred racer! 
Mind sharing your ride impressions of the Defy with us?

If you don't mind me asking, what size frame are you on (@ which heigth and inseam)? Reason why I'm asking is that I'm still undecided whether to get an "S" or "M" size frame (@ 173 cm / 5'8" and 82.5 cm / 32.5" inseam).


@mwirwin
Hey, that frame set sure looks superb! I like the graphics and especially the junction of top tube/seat tube. Also the seat post looks quite nice! Thanks for posting the pic, I'm looking forward to one of the fully built up bike! 

Thanks for the info on the press-fit BB! Did you install that yourself - and if yes, how did you do it?


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## Comer (Jan 13, 2009)

Weinbergfahrer,

Yes, I did come from a thoroughbred racer, actually since 2005 I've been on three Cervelos, an SLC, RS and S3 all great bikes. Prior to that I rode a Felt F1 a nice bike too. These were my most recent rides. I switched to the Defy because I had a 12cm to 14cm drop on my S3 depending on the time of the year and the type of riding I was doing. I'm getting old, 48 and just wanted to have a taller headtube. Now you are asking what about the RS? I liked the RS a lot, my only complaint was it had a longer chainstay and seemed to push in the corners, plus I sold it when I got my S3 so I couldn't go back to it. I saw the Defy Advanced 0 was being released for 2010 and decided to give it a go.

I've currently got about 20 to 23 hours of saddle time on the bike. Initial impressions are very good, the finish is excellent, everything seems to work well together. The frame and components really seem to have had a lot thought put into them.

I'm 5'11.5" with a 34" inseam, I purchased the M/L size. My Felt and Cervelos were all 56cm. I changed the stock stem which is a 100cm -8 degree to a 110cm -6 FSA stem and I changed the 42cm bars to 44cm Ritchey WCS bars (my favorite). The bike came with the carbon stem and bars, nicely finnished, but I prefer aluminum in that department, plus you can see I used different sizes as well. That change was more fit and preference than anything. The bike comes with Michelin Pro 3 25mm tires. I've never used 25mm tires before, the verdict is still out on them. The Dura Ace carbon rims are tubeless ready so I may try that route eventually.

Now for the ride. The bike is not as quick handling as the S3, and it's not meant to be. The ride overall is very good the bike seems to corner very well, it's descends in a nice stable manner too. It may not have the bling factor of my Cervelos but it's a good utilitarian bike. It doesn't beat you up on a 4.5 hour ride and it's more than willing to accelerate when needed. It weighs 16.2lbs with pedals and cages so it climbs pretty well. I don't know the length of the chainstays but the bike does seem to cruise up the hills.

The fit of the bike is very good, I'm pleased.


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## mwirwin (Jun 8, 2008)

Looks like the three of us are all in the same boat. I road a Centurion, a Paramount, and then a Trek for many of my younger years. (I'm now pushing 46) After several years off, I got back on the road and found that my back isn't what it used to be. A few years ago, I bought a Scattante XRL Carbon SS - at the time it felt comfortable and the price was perfect for finding out if my back could still take longer rides. What I did find out is that I was fine for about 3 hours on the Scattante, but then I could really feel the fatigue of the shorter headset.

Some friends of mine that work in the physical conditioning field have got me into core training which has helped tremendously. Apparently, cycling does nothing to develop the core muscles which supports the back - it has to be worked on off the bike. 

Comer: Thanks for the feedback. Nice to know that you're still feeling good after 4-5 hours on the bike - that's what really attracted me to the Defy. I'm looking forward to a lighter bike. I tried out the RS and found that it climbed better than the Defy, but the Defy felt springier on the hills than the Roubaix. I also agree on the Cervelos: Great on the corners - but I couldn't seem to get a good fit for my size.

Weinbergfahrer: I haven't installed the bottom bracket yet but I talked to a tech at my LBS and bracket came with some instructions. It can be installed with a larger vise - put some wood in the jaws, set the bearings in the BB with a little grease, place between the wood, and very slowly tighten. The wood is to prevent any damage from the metal vise jaws. Make sure that the bearings press in evenly as you tighten.

If you don't have a vise, go down to the hardware store and buy a long bolt and a nut with some large washers. Set the bearings in the BB, same as above. Put one of the washers on the bolt and put the bolt through the BB. Put the other washer on the other side and screw the nut down. Take a crescent wrench and slowly tighten the nut - the washers will push the bearings into the bottom bracket. Make sure bearings go in evenly - If the bearing end up uneven, they have to be pushed out and may not be reuseable.

I'll post pictures and step by step instructions when I do the BB install. I may run into other issues since I've only been talked through this by a bike tech.


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## Weinbergfahrer (Jul 8, 2009)

@all
For everyone interested in buying a Defy Advanced, I just posted a pic of Comer's bike in the neighbor thread 'Giant Defy Advanced vs Cervelo RS'.
I find it really mouthwatering! 

@mwirwin
Thanks for the detailed description of the BB installation! I thought, it couldn't be *that* easy (special tools needed, for example), but obviously, it is! 
But still, there may be others who benefit from in-depth instructions on BB86 BB installation, so if your time permits, please go ahead and post them!

Thank you!


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## Weinbergfahrer (Jul 8, 2009)

@mwirwin

Hi, what's up for the weekend?

Building up the Defy - or already riding it?


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## mwirwin (Jun 8, 2008)

I've been building the frame over the last few days and waiting for some parts. Had to order up a braze-on front derailleur (Got an Ultegra SL for $45) and a 90mm stem (Ordered a Control Tech Estero). Just got the derailleur today, waiting on the stem. I'll put the drivetrain together tonite and may just put my old stem on there to try it out. I'll let you know how the maiden voyage goes.

BTW - I got pictures of the bottom bracket as I was installing it. I would NOT recommend my first idea of using a long bolt with washers. The bolt and washers tend to move out of center very easily and this results in uneven pressure - so the bearings do not get pushed in straight. Unless I can figure out an elegant way to keep the bolt stable within the bearings, I highly recommend the vise method. I'll post picture within the next couple of days.

BTW2 - Shout out to Comer. That's a great looking bike! :thumbsup: How does the ride feel?

Mike


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## Comer (Jan 13, 2009)

Thanks for the shout out. The bike rides very well. I did a five hour ride Saturday and we are going out Wednesday evening for 2.5 hours then of course other rides too. The ride is nice, after the five hour Saturday ride I ran ten miles Sunday morning with no fatigue issues. I rode my mtb Monday and took today off. 

The bike handles really well. It's slightly heavier than my RS and S3, but not enough to make a difference and I could easily get to match their weights too.

The bike has a solid ride, I think you will be as pleased as I am.

Good luck.





mwirwin said:


> I've been building the frame over the last few days and waiting for some parts. Had to order up a braze-on front derailleur (Got an Ultegra SL for $45) and a 90mm stem (Ordered a Control Tech Estero). Just got the derailleur today, waiting on the stem. I'll put the drivetrain together tonite and may just put my old stem on there to try it out. I'll let you know how the maiden voyage goes.
> 
> BTW - I got pictures of the bottom bracket as I was installing it. I would NOT recommend my first idea of using a long bolt with washers. The bolt and washers tend to move out of center very easily and this results in uneven pressure - so the bearings do not get pushed in straight. Unless I can figure out an elegant way to keep the bolt stable within the bearings, I highly recommend the vise method. I'll post picture within the next couple of days.
> 
> ...


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## Weinbergfahrer (Jul 8, 2009)

*Press-fit BB installation*



mwirwin said:


> Unless I can figure out an elegant way to keep the bolt stable within the bearings, I highly recommend the vise method.


Hi Mike,

this tool may be of interest to you - either buying/borrowing it from your LBS or making one yourself:  

http://www.sjscycles.co.uk/product-Shimano-Shimano-TL-BB12-Press-fit-BB-Installation-Tool-20056.htm

Please post some pics of your project, even if it's a work in progress!

BTW - I'm still hunting a frameset without success - but now I got a complete Defy Advanced 1 offered... will keep you posted!

Cheers,
Johann


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## mwirwin (Jun 8, 2008)

Yes!!!! That's the tool that my local bike tech showed me. Looks simple enough - but those bushings center in the middle of the bearings. Also, the bushings slide perpendicular to the rod, no movement off-axis. When I tried to duplicate this with hardware store supplies, I couldn't find anything that would prevent the bearings from ending up crooked in the bottom bracket. :mad2: Maybe given more time and creativity - but I already had a vise and some wood scraps ready to go!:idea: 

Anyway, here are the pictures of the the vise-wood scrap method. BTW - instructions came with the bearings, demonstrating that no excessive pressure should be exerted on the area directly over the bearings, only on the very edge. But my LBS said to ignore that - there is no way to cleanly install the bearings this way: they will always end up crooked. More on this in the explanation.

A fairly wide vise is needed. I have 4.5 inch vise and I used some 1/2 inch scraps - just barely got the bearings and bracket to fit in the jaws.

There are two types of bottom brackets for press-fit bearings: Open brackets (These need and internal sleeve in between the bearings), and closed brackets (like the one pictured on the Defy - no need for an internal sleeve).

My only caveat is not to put the bearings under a lot of pressure from the vise. Crank the vise slowly. Close the jaws just enough to get the bearings almost into the bracket - this avoids putting a lot of pressure on the ball bearings, which the instructions warn about.

Then take the frame out of the vise and inspect where the bearings still need to be pushed into the BB. Put the BB back into the vise along the edge of the bearing that needs to be further pressed into the BB. See the pictures and you'll see what I mean.

Let me know if you have questions. I'm assuming that most of the pictures are self-explanatory - but I know what happens when we assume.


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## mwirwin (Jun 8, 2008)

And here is the work in progress. I'm still waiting on the new stem before I cut down the steering tube. There is an 80mm on there for the time being.

BTW - I use a Polar HR computer and I'm having trouble finding a good spot for the cadence sensor. Right now I have it on the non-drive chainstay. But it's pretty far back - so the magnet is almost at the end of the crank, just inside the pedal axle. I'm finding that the shape of the chainstay (square), the seat tube (square), and downtube (square) makes it hard to find a good mounting point for the rubber base (it works best on a round tube). Also, the shape of the sensor almost requires that it extend out at a 45 deg angle. I'd like to have the sensor closer to the crank axle, but the oversize BB doesn't have a appropriate surface in that area. Any experience or recommendations for this?


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## Weinbergfahrer (Jul 8, 2009)

Good morning, Mike, 

thanks for the excellent BB installation pics! They're really - almost - self explanatory... 

- Is that grease or an adhesive you've used in pic #8?

- It looks as if there's a metal sleeve in the carbon frame?

Re Polar sensor: sorry, I don't have any personal experience with that. If I come across some useful information, I'll post it here.

The wheels look nice... what hubs are are they built on?

And if you don't mind an unsolicited word of advice: the cable to the rear brake appears to be pretty long...  (take a look here: http://sheldonbrown.com/cables.html)

Really a great bike, many happy miles on it!

Cheers,
Johann


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## mit3k (Jun 1, 2009)

What's your height and inseam?


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## Weinbergfahrer (Jul 8, 2009)

@mit3k

Just in case your're asking me:

"If you don't mind me asking, what size frame are you on (@ which heigth and inseam)? Reason why I'm asking is that I'm still undecided whether to get an "S" or "M" size frame (@ 173 cm / 5'8" and 82.5 cm / 32.5" inseam)."

Still hasn't changed since post #7  


Cheers,
Johann


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## mwirwin (Jun 8, 2008)

Hi Johan,

Thanks for feedback. I also have looked at the cable to the rear brake, thinking it was too long - but it's bit of dilemma. The cable stop is underneath the top tube and the brake adjustment barrel is at a 45 deg angle and about an 1" to 1.5" above the cable stop. I'm a big fan of Sheldon Brown (btw-thanks for the link. I hadn't seen his cable article - very informative) and I completely agree with the part about smooth arcs and making sure that the cable is parallel with the seat stay. Right now my cablehousing looks like a big "S" on it's side - I have to bring it around and above the top tube for the cable to end up parallel with the seat stay as it enters the brake adjustment barrel (I'll take a picture of it tonight). Not sure if there is a more elegant solution. I believe the size of the frame has a lot to do with the dilemma. Perhaps the cable stops would be better off on the top of the top tube with this configuration.

Re: BB Assembly - The inside of the Giant's bottom bracket is a carbon fiber sleeve - it does look a bit metallic in the picture. It's a nice touch - seals the bearing from any potential moisture entering the area. In some of the pictures you can also make out a couple of drain holes around the bottom bracket.

I applied a little lithium grease where the bearings are pressed into the BB, just to help the process along. My tech at the LBS recommended this and the instructions also mentioned it. Not a lot is needed since the lubrication really won't serve any other purpose - although it might make it easier to remove the bearing at some point.

Re: Hubs - Those are Cane Creek hubs. I remember reading somewhere that Cane Creek uses the internal parts of Shimano's Ultegra hub and then builds a new external shell. One thing I like about them is that the spoke nipples are at the hub, reducing the rotational weight at the rim. I've ridden on these for 3-4 years now and they've only needed minor truing twice. Of course, if I rode more than 3 days a week they'd need more maintenance!

BTW - I highly recommend contacting Giant directly and ask them if they can recommend a dealer in your area for the frameset. They were very helpful and even told me what sizes were in the local inventory. But hang in there, Giant has to have frames out there if the 2010 bikes are on the market.


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## mwirwin (Jun 8, 2008)

@mitk3

In case you're asking me, I'm 5'4" and a 29" inseam. The frame size on the Defy is an XS.

Mike


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## mwirwin (Jun 8, 2008)

Hi Comer,

Thanks for the update. Good to hear that the bike is living up to the reputation. I'm hoping to take mine on it's maiden voyage within the next few days. I'll let you know what happens.

Mike


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## Weinbergfahrer (Jul 8, 2009)

Mike,

thanks a lot for the useful information you're providing! With your assistance, I'm already halfway through building the bike - at least mentally! 

I've already contacted a local Giant dealer (here in Austria), but he still hasn't got back to me what the warehouse in the Netherlands still has in stock. From what I'm told, the European dealers are all busy buying up what's left for special clearance sales at the end of the summer season.

Through a friend in Taiwan I contacted a shop there, and they still happen to have an M-sized frame of a Defy Advanced 1 in stock (pic can be found here: http://www.giant-bicycles.com/zh-TW/bikes/road/2875/33646/zoom/). I've yet to figure out what it would cost me after customs duty, taxes, etc.

Will keep you posted! 

Cheers,
Johann


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## mwirwin (Jun 8, 2008)

Hi Johann,

I hope the supply situation gets better in your area. I know what it's been like up until a few months ago when the 2009 frames dried up and they hadn't come out with the 2010 yet. I had a hard enough time just finding a built up bike to try out.

In the meantime, feel free to live vicariously through Comer and me. And perhaps we'll make mistakes to guide you along. 

Speaking of which: I took another look at the rear brake cable housing and decided to cut another cable about 3/4" shorter. Tired in out and still feels smooth - So you've got good eyes! Definitely had some room to shorten the housing.

However, I went over the bike this morning to torque everything to spec - and now the cable housing is right over one of the seatpost collar bolts - and very close to the brake barrel adjuster! So it took a bit of maneuvering to line up the torque wrench (which pretty heavy - didn't want to drop it on the frame). The things we have to deal with...

Took another go at the cadence sensor - don't know what I was thinking the first time. Fits fine on the seat tube. It's a little high up the crank for my likes, but it will do. I must have been sleep deprived first the time I looked at it :Yawn: 

Also, I cut down the steering tube and left quite a bit. I'll ride on the trainer first to work out any drivetrain issues and then I'll hit the road for awhile. I'll let everyone know how it goes!:cornut:


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## Weinbergfahrer (Jul 8, 2009)

Brake cable looks fine! 

To be honest, that's the first time I see the cadence sensor mounted on to the seat tube. So far, I've only seen it mounted on top of or below the non-drive side chain stay - like this:

https://garminedge.files.wordpress.com/2008/07/_dsc0671.jpg

But as long as you can't inadvertently touch it, that position should be alright, I guess! 

Cheers,
Johann


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## mwirwin (Jun 8, 2008)

Aaah... Wow! Just got back from a 2 hour ride on the Defy. Very nice! A smooth ride but I could still feel enough of the road to feel responsive. The cornering felt intuitive - didn't feel like I had to over/under adjust much mid turn at speed. At some points it felt a little twitchy - but I think the 90 mm will solve that. I felt a good (not fabulous but, like, good!) springiness when I sprinted (I'm not a real sprinter) or when I accelerated on climbs (more my style). Climbing felt solid - good transfer of power, I didn't feel weighed down by the bike.

So far so good! My back/shoulders dont' hurt - and that was the big goal! I'll have to go on a 3-4 hour ride either tomorrow or next week and report.

One thing though - Need some help/advice in this area. I noticed that the chainstay length is a bit longer on the Defy than on my previous bike. I was pretty limited in the cross chaining area on the previous frame, but I found that I don't have that problem on the Defy - with one exception. If I'm in the 39 chainring and the 12 cassette, I don't have a problem if I'm cranking the pedals by hand. However, I do have a problem when I really push that gearing on the road. There is some rub, but not on the front cage and not on the teeth of the 50 chainring. There is a little silver squarish thingy on the inside of the the 50 chainring (see picture) and the chain rubs up against it when my drive side pedal is on the down stroke. What is this? Any advice?

I've got a Shimano R700 crankset (it's supposed to be the equivalent of the Ultegra 6600 but not as pretty). The cranks are fine with cross chaining with this one exception - not a huge deal but it would be nice have all options available. I'm wondering if an Ultegra 50 chainring would act differently. The R700 has a closed design (more like the Durace chainring) while the Ultegra has an open design - don't know if this behave better.


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## Weinbergfahrer (Jul 8, 2009)

Hi Mike,



mwirwin said:


> Aaah... Wow! Just got back from a 2 hour ride on the Defy. Very nice!


Good to hear about your positive ride impressions!



mwirwin said:


> If I'm in the 39 chainring and the 12 cassette, ....


That much cross-chaining is not a good idea (with respect to chain wear). I always avoid going 39/11 or 12 and 53/25.



mwirwin said:


> There is a little silver squarish thingy on the inside of the the 50 chainring (see picture) and the chain rubs up against it when my drive side pedal is on the down stroke. What is this? Any advice?


That little thingy is called "Steighilfe" (don't know the English term) - it helps the chain to climb (steigen) from the small to the big chainring.



mwirwin said:


> The R700 has a closed design (more like the Durace chainring) while the Ultegra has an open design - don't know if this behave better.


I've not tried the R700 (just the R600), but my guess is that testing both cranksets blindfoldedly, you wouldn't notice a difference.  

Cheers,
Johann


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## BarkingDog (Sep 23, 2009)

My LBS has a '09 Defy Advanced 1 that I am considering. I rode quite a bit.....20+ years ago and I am just now getting back into the game. I am presently riding a 1985ish steel CIOCC with Shimano 600 group and mavic ma40 rims. I am about 6'1". The shop was steering me towards the Large frame. they have a M/L too.

I have taken a Roubaix for a ride. It was remarkably different from my CIOCC. This was the first CF bike I have tried. the pavement was lightly bumpy...not smooth. I noticed a buzz or hum to the frame that I have never experience with my steel bikes. Is this a common attribute of CF?

I am looking forward to taking the Defy for a ride. I am torn on color schemes. not sure if I will go for the silver/red/black '09 or hold out for a '10 White/Black frame.

So many changes in the bikes since my 85 bike. brake handle location, shifters, handle bar drops.

it is fun catching up on the tech after the years and trying out the bikes.

My rides so far have been mostly solo for 25-40 miles. I'm 44 now and need to drop some lbs so I getting comfortable with the fact that aggressive race geometry is probably not for me any longer.

It was great to be out this past sunday. I came around a corner at the same time a group of riders were passing. I greeted them and passed on buy. In my head I was having a laugh thinking they were saying.....hey that fat guy is pretty quick. I was in a hurry to get home and take the kids to their soccer game. Otherwise I would have been more social.

Cant wait to try the Defy. Your bikes look great and I am happy to hear that you enjoy the ride.


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## mwirwin (Jun 8, 2008)

Hi BarkingDog,

I used to have a 85 Paramount with Shimano 600 components - those were the days! That was my first quality bike - wish I hadn't crashed it. BTW - I'm 45 and constantly trying to stay in shape!

I tried a Roubaix - Do you know which model you rode? The lower models are a little heavier and deadened the road feel for me. I found the high end models a little more lively and I felt the road a little more (which I prefer to a certain extent).

CF vs Steel? That's an ongoing debate and there are many opinions, both subjective and analytical. My old Paramount was smooth as silk but had quite a bit of flex when I was climbing and sprinting. My Defy is comfy and I do feel the road, but not much flex in the rear triangle (I'm feeling a little in the front end but it's not terrible). It's tradeoff in my opinion.

I found that hum or buzz to be quite common in CF bikes. I think it's just the nature of the material. You'll also find that if you ride CF over some extended rough patches, there is occassionally some "chatter" effect - this is also common. I think it mainly comes from the fork.

If you can find the 09 defy frame, go for it - it's nice!. Wasn't available anymore in California when I built up my frame.

Have fun trying out the Defy. I found the frame much more responsive than the low and mid level Roubaix. Compared to an SWorks? The SWorks is pretty sweet but I don't have $8000 lying around

BTW - Spotted an SWorks propped up against a car last weekend at the local ride and a kid on a tricycle knocked it over. The seatstay cracked when it hit the corner of the curb. Some of my more experienced riding buddies tell me that they always lay they're CF bike on the ground so it has nowhere to fall. Something to think about in your decision.

Mike


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## BarkingDog (Sep 23, 2009)

mwirwin

I dont remember the model of the Roubaix that i tried. But I do recall that it was discounted to $5k. It had full SRAM Red components. The "special" BB and crank. 

So it was a higher end model.


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## ticmxman (May 20, 2007)

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