# Looking down on sprinters



## Jesse D Smith (Jun 11, 2005)

"Robbie McEwen (Davitamon-Lotto) has decided, in agreement with his team and medical staff, that he will not start in de 8th stage of the Tour de Suisse. With both the weekend's stages not suited to the sprinters, there is not a lot in it for McEwen, who did manage to take a stage win and prove that his form is excellent for the upcoming Tour de France."

Yeah, we all know that he has no reason to help his team out in any other way other than sucking wheels and sprinting for the glory when all conditions meet his requirements. It's not as if he could be taking pulls protecting the teams other GC riders.


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## MikeBiker (Mar 9, 2003)

Jesse D Smith said:


> "Robbie McEwen (Davitamon-Lotto) has decided, in agreement with his team and medical staff, that he will not start in de 8th stage of the Tour de Suisse. With both the weekend's stages not suited to the sprinters, there is not a lot in it for McEwen, who did manage to take a stage win and prove that his form is excellent for the upcoming Tour de France."
> 
> Yeah, we all know that he has no reason to help his team out in any other way other than sucking wheels and sprinting for the glory when all conditions meet his requirements. It's not as if he could be taking pulls protecting the teams other GC riders.


 His job is to win the sprints. There are other riders on the team to do the water toting and pulls. You don't use a Ferrari to do the job of an SUV.


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## magnolialover (Jun 2, 2004)

*Exactly...*



MikeBiker said:


> His job is to win the sprints. There are other riders on the team to do the water toting and pulls. You don't use a Ferrari to do the job of an SUV.


The first poster is so wrong. As you mentioned, Robbie's job is to win sprints, his team decided he shouldn't start, and therefore save his form. He's won how many races/stages this year?? A lot. Wins bring sponsorship money, and sponsors love to see their team win. McEwen, doing his job. Everyone has one on the team. He's not there to help out others, he's there to win.


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## Jed Peters (Feb 4, 2004)

magnolialover said:


> The first poster is so wrong. As you mentioned, Robbie's job is to win sprints, his team decided he shouldn't start, and therefore save his form. He's won how many races/stages this year?? A lot. Wins bring sponsorship money, and sponsors love to see their team win. McEwen, doing his job. Everyone has one on the team. He's not there to help out others, he's there to win.


Yeah, but you gotta admit, there's a lot of negativity for one-pop sprinters out there by the road racers, especially here domestically...there's guys (and GALS!) that just do flat RRs and crits, and sometimes people totally look down on that....


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## Dwayne Barry (Feb 16, 2003)

Lotto doesn't even have a guy in the top-10, so it's not like they're going to have any of the race responsibility on their shoulders anyway. OTOH, Boonen stayed in the race and did domestique work for Rogers and QS. I imagine he would have packed it in as well if it weren't for Rogers.

BTW, McEwen wasn't the only one to not start, Fast Freddy and Eisel both opted out as well.

Think about it, you're in charge of team, you've got one of the few guys that has pretty good chance of taking a tour stage, thereby bringing a ton of publicity for your sponsors which is what it is all about. So are you going to risk burning him out and jeopardize his chance of winning those stages or save him?


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## Jesse D Smith (Jun 11, 2005)

Dwayne Barry said:


> Lotto doesn't even have a guy in the top-10, so it's not like they're going to have any of the race responsibility on their shoulders anyway. OTOH, Boonen stayed in the race and did domestique work for Rogers and QS. I imagine he would have packed it in as well if it weren't for Rogers.
> 
> BTW, McEwen wasn't the only one to not start, Fast Freddy and Eisel both opted out as well.
> 
> Think about it, you're in charge of team, you've got one of the few guys that has pretty good chance of taking a tour stage, thereby bringing a ton of publicity for your sponsors which is what it is all about. So are you going to risk burning him out and jeopardize his chance of winning those stages or save him?


I guess what I'm saying is that sprinters used to finish stage races. Then Mario came along. His early exits stood out and were a reason his own teams were no longer welcome in the Tour. Now the sprinters don't even bother finishing Tour prep races. 
Zabel manages to finish. When he was strictly a sprinter, Stewart O'Grady manages to finish. All the old sprinters managed to finish, even knowing they'd finish last on a stage.
I should have prefaced my post by saying it's my opinion of sprinters, not the reality of racing.


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## magnolialover (Jun 2, 2004)

*Look at it this way...*



Jed Peters said:


> Yeah, but you gotta admit, there's a lot of negativity for one-pop sprinters out there by the road racers, especially here domestically...there's guys (and GALS!) that just do flat RRs and crits, and sometimes people totally look down on that....


When you go to a race domestically, you know who the sprinters are, and what they're going to try to do right? So, essentially what you've got is the distance of the crit and or road race to try and drop said sprinter or sprinters. And if you can't, well, they'll finish it off for you. It's racing. People are out there to be competitive, and if they're a good sprinter, well, you've got to work to your strengths don't you? Yes, yes indeed.


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## Jed Peters (Feb 4, 2004)

magnolialover said:


> When you go to a race domestically, you know who the sprinters are, and what they're going to try to do right? So, essentially what you've got is the distance of the crit and or road race to try and drop said sprinter or sprinters. And if you can't, well, they'll finish it off for you. It's racing. People are out there to be competitive, and if they're a good sprinter, well, you've got to work to your strengths don't you? Yes, yes indeed.


Oh, I totally agree.

HOWEVER, that's not to say that there aren't those RRers out there who despise the one-shot sprinters...


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## elviento (Mar 24, 2002)

I suppose reasonable minds may differ on this question. Let's face it, though, the sport is a result oriented one. No one will remember the guy who did 150 mile breakaway but got caught in the last mile. Between finishes and wins, the sponsor will take wins any time, and you can't blame them.

The way I look at it, sprinters like McEwen are essentially nobody in a mountain stage. So his dropping out isn't that much different from a no-name rider dropping out.


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## spookyload (Jan 30, 2004)

elviento said:


> I suppose reasonable minds may differ on this question. Let's face it, though, the sport is a result oriented one. No one will remember the guy who did 150 mile breakaway but got caught in the last mile. Between finishes and wins, the sponsor will take wins any time, and you can't blame them.


I do...his name was Laurent Jalabert.


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## OnTheRivet (Sep 3, 2004)

Jed Peters said:


> Yeah, but you gotta admit, there's a lot of negativity for one-pop sprinters out there by the road racers, especially here domestically...there's guys (and GALS!) that just do flat RRs and crits, and sometimes people totally look down on that....


In SoCal there are guys that have passed me in moving up categories that I can drop on any climb longer than a driveway. We have very few road races and about 1000 industrial park crits. These guys are fast but they are by no means fit. They make it into the 2's or 1's where you have to be fast and strong and languish in the back.


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## leadag (Jan 4, 2005)

AMEN brother!


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## OnTheRivet (Sep 3, 2004)

spookyload said:


> I do...his name was Laurent Jalabert.


Jalabert is the most underated rider ever. I put him as top 5 of all time. Forget that he wasn't a prolific grand Tour ride ( he did win the Vuelta ) look at this friggin palmares, the guy was incredible. 176 victories, are you kidding me.

2002
13eme de la Classement Coupe du monde sur route avec 100 pts.
5eme du classement g�n�ral du Tour de Qatar ()
1er du Tour du Haut Var
3eme du classement g�n�ral du Paris Nice (Classement G�n�ral)
1er de la 4eme etape du Paris Nice (Saint-Etienne - Saint-Eti)
2eme de la 5eme etape du Paris Nice (Pertuis - Toulon (Mont Fa)
1er du CSC Classic / GP d'Aarhus
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3eme de la 6eme etape du Crit�rium du Dauphin� Lib�r� (Digne - Grenoble)
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2001 

14eme de la Classement Coupe du monde sur route avec 100 pts.
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2000 

50eme de la Classement Coupe du monde sur route avec 31 pts.
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1999 

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1998 

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1997 

5eme de la Classement Coupe du monde sur route avec 215 pts.
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1996 

20eme de la Classement Coupe du monde sur route avec 88 pts.
1er du Classic Haribo
1er du classement g�n�ral du Tour de Valence (Classement G�n�ral)
1er de la 1ere etape du Tour de Valence (Calpe-Calpe)
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1er de la 2eme etape du Grand Prix du Midi Libre (Millas--Mazamet)
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3eme de la 7eme etape du Tour de France (Arc de Senans-Aix Les Bains)
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5eme du Paris Tours
1er du Classement U.C.I.

1995 

4eme de la Classement Coupe du monde sur route avec 140 pts.
4eme du classement g�n�ral du Challenge de Majorque (Classement G�n�ral)
1er de la 2eme etape du Challenge de Majorque ()
2eme du classement g�n�ral du Tour de Valence (Classement G�n�ral)
1er de la 3eme etape du Tour de Valence ()
2eme de la 1ere etape du Paris Nice (Fontenay-sous-bois - Orl�ans)
1er du classement g�n�ral du Paris Nice (Classement G�n�ral)
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3eme de la 3eme etape du Crit�rium International (Graulhet - Lavaur CLM Ind)
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1er du Classement U.C.I.

1994 

31eme de la Classement Coupe du monde sur route avec 26 pts.
2eme du Troph�e Luis Puig
4eme de la 1ere etape du Paris Nice (Fontenay-sous-bois - Orl�ans)
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2eme de la 1ere etape du Crit�rium International (Chateauneuf du Pape - Pertuis)
2eme de la 2eme etape du Tour du Pays Basques ()
1er de la 2eme etape du Tour d'Espagne (Valladolid - Salamanque)
1er de la 3eme etape du Tour d'Espagne (Salamanque - Caceres)
3eme de la 4eme etape du Tour d'Espagne (Almendralejo - Cordoue)
1er de la 5eme etape du Tour d'Espagne (Cordoue - Grenade)
5eme de la 7eme etape du Tour d'Espagne (Baza - Alicante)
1er de la 12eme etape du Tour d'Espagne (Benasque - Saragosse)
1er de la 13eme etape du Tour d'Espagne (Saragosse - Pampelune)
2eme de la 15eme etape du Tour d'Espagne (Santo Domingo - Santander)
1er de la 16eme etape du Tour d'Espagne (Santander - lacs de Covadonga)
1er de la 21eme etape du Tour d'Espagne (Destilerias DYC - Madrid)
5eme de la 2eme etape du Grand Prix du Midi Libre (Pas de la Case - Castelnaudary)
5eme de la 4eme etape du Grand Prix du Midi Libre (Saint Affrique - Le Vigan)
1er de la 6eme etape du Grand Prix du Midi Libre (Montpellier - S�te)

1993 

16eme de la Classement Coupe du monde sur route avec 62 pts.
1er du classement g�n�ral du Challenge de Majorque (Classement G�n�ral)
1er de la 2eme etape du Challenge de Majorque ()
1er de la 4eme etape du Challenge de Majorque ()
1er du Troph�e Luis Puig
1er de la 7eme etape du Tour de Valence ()
4eme du Milan - San Remo
1er de la 8eme etape du Paris Nice (Mandelieu-La-Napoule - Nice)
4eme de la 1ere etape du Tour d'Espagne (La Corogne -CLM ind)
1er de la 3eme etape du Tour d'Espagne (Vigo - Orense)
3eme de la 4eme etape du Tour d'Espagne (Gudina - Salamanque)
1er de la 7eme etape du Tour d'Espagne (Segovie - Madrid)
4eme de la 8eme etape du Tour d'Espagne (Aranjuez - Albacete)
5eme de la 9eme etape du Tour d'Espagne (Albacete - Valence)
2eme de la 15eme etape du Tour d'Espagne (santo Domingo de la Calzada - Santander)
1er du classement g�n�ral du Clasica de Alcobendas ()
1er de la 3eme etape du Tour des Asturies ()
3eme de la 4eme etape du Grand Prix du Midi Libre (Rodez - Ales)
3eme de la 2eme etape du Tour de France (Lu�on - Les sables d'Olonne)
5eme de la 4eme etape du Tour de France (Vannes - Dinard)

1992 

3eme du Troph�e Luis Puig
4eme de la 1ere etape du Crit�rium International (Orange - Pertuis)

1991 

3eme du Grand Prix de Cannes
2eme du classement g�n�ral du Paris Nice (Classement G�n�ral)
5eme de la 3eme etape du Paris Nice (Cusset - St Etienne)
5eme de la 4eme etape du Paris Nice (St Etienne - Dieulfit)
5eme de la 7eme etape du Paris Nice (Toulon - Mandelieu)
5eme de la 8eme etape du Paris Nice (Nice - Col D Eze)

1990 

5eme de la 2eme etape du Paris Nice (Orl�ans - Nevers)
3eme de la 1ere etape du Crit�rium International (Apt - Pertuis)

1989 

3eme du Tour du Camp de Morvedre
3eme du Troph�e Luis Puig


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## torquecal (Nov 9, 2002)

*Sprinters have specialized like almost everything else*

"Sprinters used to finish stage races."


There's at least three different kind of "sprinters" out there today. Guys like Pettachi that can sling themselves up into incredible sprints with the help of an organized lead out train... but probably won't even be in the bunch if they don't have at least two of their train up front.

Then you've got guys that can finish stage races like Zabel, Boonen, Nazon and Hushovd. Though they usually share some characteristics of both other types.

Finally, you've got your opportunists. Guys that will never need a train to find their way into the top five. Guys like McEwen and (sometimes O'Grady).


I don't think sprinters back in the seventies got any more respect (overall) than the guys do today. The GC guys have always been the Glamor Boats.


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## spookyload (Jan 30, 2004)

I also don't think the sprinters in the 80's and 70's got the team support they do now. Riders like Davis Phinney and Sean Kelly had to work to stay near the front to be at the finish. They didn't have seven guys working to keep them in the main bunch, then lead them within 100 meters of the line at 35 mph.


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## atpjunkie (Mar 23, 2002)

*and considering Robbie*

is shooting for a Green Jersey why waste his legs doing some climbs he doesn't 'need' to. 
Lotto had a under rated spring so Tour results are really important. They've got a great lineup for the Tour w/ Fast Freddie most likely doing leadout for robbie. An overall sprinters prize and/or a handful of stage victories would make their year a success. Everyone defends certain riders when they do races as 'training' to peak for the tour but then jumps on sprinters when they do the same. and FYI Robbie finishes GT's, he's always in the tops in the TdF sprinter competition. He always drops from the Giro when he feels he's done enough. With no zabel or petacchi McEwen is gonna be the front runner with Cooke and Boonen. I think it will be intersting watching Boonen duke it out with these 2.


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## Jesse D Smith (Jun 11, 2005)

torquecal said:


> "Sprinters used to finish stage races."
> 
> 
> There's at least three different kind of "sprinters" out there today. Guys like Pettachi that can sling themselves up into incredible sprints with the help of an organized lead out train... but probably won't even be in the bunch if they don't have at least two of their train up front.
> ...



Goods points. Time have changed. I always gave Mario a pass because he contributed so much more to the all around enjoyment of the sport. If you haven't had a chance, check out Graham Watson's tribute to him, especially the off-the-bike-photos. 

http://grahamwatson.com/gw/imagedocs.nsf/updateframesetcall?openform&05cipo2


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## magnolialover (Jun 2, 2004)

*Pettachi has changed...*



torquecal said:


> "Sprinters used to finish stage races."
> 
> 
> There's at least three different kind of "sprinters" out there today. Guys like Pettachi that can sling themselves up into incredible sprints with the help of an organized lead out train... but probably won't even be in the bunch if they don't have at least two of their train up front.
> ...


Pettachi has changed this year though. In year's past, he's been criticized for exactly what you said. He seemed unable to win without his leadout train. This year, he took Milan-San Remo easy, without his leadout train. He had to make the climbs of the Poggio and the Cipressa by himself, and then Bettini tried to mess up his sprint by getting in the way, and he still won. He's becoming a better all around sprinter. Cippolini is the guy who created the 7 or 8 man lead out train, and it's become the norm now, well, more or less. 

McEwen will win some Tour stages no doubt. He's chippy. Boonen can muscle his way into it. Thor, not the best out there, might still take some stages though. I seriously think it's going to come down to Boonen and Robbie this year.


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## wzq622 (Aug 3, 2004)

for all those who cant generate 1800-2200 watts of power after riding 100+ miles, then STFU...


......


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## HXTi (May 13, 2005)

*Green Jersey*

I think sometimes the yellow jersey is overrated. I mean the leaders can just pick and choose those key moments to ride hard.....uphill finish....TT etc. They are good at those two disciplines....TT's and climbing... well they need to be if they want to win. The rest of the time their team does all the work even up most of the mtn before those closing kilometers. I would argue that winning a green jersey is as hard if not harder than winning the Yellow in terms of energy used. The green jersey winner in the last few years has to be a hard man who fights each and every day for those measly little points to stay ahead. We also know that pure sprinters aren't made for climbing genetically and yet they need to cover those mtn passes and sprint for intermediary points before still finishing up some crazy final climb. How hard do you think those climbs are for a guy like Mayo vs a petacchi or cipo or even mcEwen? Those sprinter suffer and yet there still there to duke it out in the end while the yellow jersey strolls in with his champagne in hand. (well a little exaggeration here but you get the point.)

It is really about specialists. The yellow jersey could never win the points (unless your name is merckx) and the green jersey could never get close to yellow. I personally respect both winners.


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## atpjunkie (Mar 23, 2002)

*agreed*

it's why I respect Zabel so much. always got over the hills. It's funny but there was a stat the year LA won the TdF by 7 minutes and the amount of km's he spent 'off the front' was something around 15 k. people don't realize how much the argy bargy takes out of ya and the fact that these guys have to haul their non climbing selves over the hills in time. it's just different physiology, so give em yer props.


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## dagger (Jul 22, 2004)

*Holy chain stays*



OnTheRivet said:


> Jalabert is the most underated rider ever. I put him as top 5 of all time. Forget that he wasn't a prolific grand Tour ride ( he did win the Vuelta ) look at this friggin palmares, the guy was incredible. 176 victories, are you kidding me.
> 
> 2002
> 13eme de la Classement Coupe du monde sur route avec 100 pts.
> ...


Those are some palarmares


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## torquecal (Nov 9, 2002)

You're right of course, AleJet has changed a lot but he certainly hasn't completed that kind of transformation. The early Giro finishing routes this year tore his leadout train up and his results showed it.


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