# Lotto Belisol and Team Saxo–Tinkoff not on Top 15 Pro Tour list



## cda 455 (Aug 9, 2010)

Very interesting.


Points problem?

Financial problem?


http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/uci-announces-top-15-teams-for-2013-worldtour


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## Creakyknees (Sep 21, 2003)

Points problem.

"The sporting criteria takes into account each team's top 12 riders who've signed contracts by October 20, 2012 in addition to results obtained in 2011 and 2012 by riders which are included in the 2013 rosters."


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## cda 455 (Aug 9, 2010)

Creakyknees said:


> Points problem.
> 
> "The sporting criteria takes into account each team's top 12 riders who've signed contracts by October 20, 2012 in addition to results obtained in 2011 and 2012 by riders which are included in the 2013 rosters."



Wow; A two-time TDF winner in his prime racing on a Continental team :lol: !


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## davidka (Dec 12, 2001)

cda 455 said:


> Wow; A two-time TDF winner in his prime racing on a Continental team :lol: !


He is the very reason that they are now a Continental team.


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## Ventruck (Mar 9, 2009)

davidka said:


> He is the very reason that they are now a Continental team.


yep. Riis has been trying to dispute the points losses but I guess he lost that argument.

Still, Contador's Vuelta didn't do enough?


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## cda 455 (Aug 9, 2010)

Ventruck said:


> yep. Riis has been trying to dispute the points losses but I guess he lost that argument.
> 
> Still, Contador's Vuelta didn't do enough?



I believe his points don't count from that tour.


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## Ventruck (Mar 9, 2009)

cda 455 said:


> I believe his points don't count from that tour.


Checked on that real quick. Yep, post-suspension points don't count.

Not quite sure what to think of that. The retroactive suspension was arguably generous in the first place, but I don't see how it does this points situation just...especially considering Contador played a major role in promoting the race and drawing attention to the sport again.


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## LostViking (Jul 18, 2008)

Yes, as Conti is back from a suspension - his points don't count - so the only points that count are those of riders who are staying on for the next season as well as new signings for 2013.

Also, we must consider the ethical ranking of teams - due to Conti as well as other things, Saxo-Tink may be struggling with that one.

With two banks as sponsors, I doubt Saxo-Tink's edgy position is due to problems with thier financials.

Bit surprised about Lotto - thought they won a fair amount of stages - perhaps not enough? Could be a paperwork issue as well I suppose.


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## LuckyB (Sep 9, 2012)

Saxo-Tinkoff will make the World Team status, hell a team that is no more made it. "2013 UCI WorldTour licence which have met the four criteria (sporting, _*ethical*_, financial and administrative)." They're good.


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## LostViking (Jul 18, 2008)

Niether announced in the first draft today - looks like fans of both teams will just have to play the waiting game.


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## vismitananda (Jan 16, 2011)

cda 455 said:


> Wow; A two-time TDF winner in his prime racing on a Continental team :lol: !


Wow! Can't believe this, UCI should die w/ their rules. 

This reminds me of Garzelli.


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## spookyload (Jan 30, 2004)

Saxo Bank picked up a bunch of mid-range riders with points, they should be OK. Kreuziger had a decent amount of points to bring.


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## Chainstay (Mar 13, 2004)

*The points system is flawed*



LostViking said:


> Bit surprised about Lotto - thought they won a fair amount of stages - perhaps not enough? Could be a paperwork issue as well I suppose.


I don't get that either. Greipel alone had 19 or so victories, though I suppose some were not worth UCI points. They also have Jurgen Van Den Brouke and Lars Bak and a great crop of roleurs. I think the system gives lots of points for finished decently in a minor tour and not enough for winning a GT stage.

How do Daniel Martin, Talansky and Gasparrato finish well ahead of Cav and Greipel. Cav was ranked 40th with 6 GT wins and a host of others

Union Cycliste Internationale


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## FlandersFields (Jul 16, 2010)

Lotto has Greipel and VdB. They are the oldest sponsor in cycling country, so they should be good. Letting out Riis would be good to kill the ghosts of the past.


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## vismitananda (Jan 16, 2011)

LostViking said:


> Niether announced in the first draft today - looks like fans of both teams will just have to play the waiting game.


They better make it snappy.


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## LostViking (Jul 18, 2008)

FlandersFields said:


> Letting out Riis would be good to kill the ghosts of the past.


Without sending this thread to that other forum - lots of ghosts around - you let one go (at the expense of riders who had nothing to do with the "haunting") - you should exorcise them all.

I hope both teams make Pro Tour and are prime players in getting the sport back on track.


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## Fogdweller (Mar 26, 2004)

Ventruck said:


> Checked on that real quick. Yep, post-suspension points don't count.
> 
> Not quite sure what to think of that. The retroactive suspension was arguably generous in the first place, but I don't see how it does this points situation just...especially considering Contador played a major role in promoting the race and drawing attention to the sport again.


It's also one of the reasons he didn't go to Bejing. The UCI wanted him to travel there to bolster the sport in Asia and he said he wasn't going since there wouldn't be any points awarded if he won or placed. That's the double-edged sword that the UCI has created in this system.


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## LostViking (Jul 18, 2008)

This should help Saxo-Tink...

Duggan And Petrov Join Saxo Bank-Tinkoff Bank | Cyclingnews.com

Hope they give him an awesome U.S. National Champs jersey! Might sell a few Stateside I suspect. :thumbsup:


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## LostViking (Jul 18, 2008)

Lotto is IN.

Argos-Shimano and Saxo-Tink is a shoot-out for the last Pro-Tour spot.

Saxo-Tinkoff And Argos-Shimano Fight For Final Position In WorldTour | Cyclingnews.com

If you take away Contis points (which is the rule the UCI is sticking to) - it seems a no brainer that Argos will get that spot.

Bet that rule goes by the wayside next season...just thinking.


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## Oasisbill (Jan 15, 2011)

Saxo-Tinkoff as a continental team will most likely get offered the races they want because of Contador. Whether they are happy to do so is a different matter.


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## LostViking (Jul 18, 2008)

Interesting to see how Argos and Saxo-Tink are trying to take the high-ground on The Issue of the Day as the UCI decides between them.

Wonder what races Conti rides in if Saxo-Tink does not make Pro Tour - might avoid the tours and ride (and win) just about everything else just to spite the UCI? Doubt they'll do that, but since his points next season will not count either - why should Conti kill himself riding a Grand Tour(s) that will not result in any points for Conti or his team? Just for the glory? 

Saxo-Tink Team could still be relegated to Pro Conti (<- no pun) in 2014 even if Alberto won all three Grand Tours in 2013.


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## Dan Gerous (Mar 28, 2005)

If Alberto can ride the Tour, he will, he doesn't race/win Grand Tours to make points for himself or his team, he wants to win them.


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## vismitananda (Jan 16, 2011)

LostViking said:


> why should Conti kill himself riding a Grand Tour(s) that will not result in any points for Conti or his team? Just for the glory?


How about a big paycheck and Palmares add on instead of Glory?


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## LostViking (Jul 18, 2008)

http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/aso-no-special-consideration-for-contador

Conti is putting them on notice that he might not ride grand tours if Saxo-Tink is a wild-card invite and not automatic (ie. Pro-Tour). ASO has apparently gotten the message and is saying "suit yourself."
Wonder if the UCI feels the same way?

Do you get the Palmares without the points? I guess you do with this crazy system the UCI has in place. Seems Conti is indeed willing and ready to ride a GT - but only if Saxo-Tink secures a Pro-Tour spot.

Until the UCI resolves this question - this is a story that will keep developing.


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## vismitananda (Jan 16, 2011)

LostViking said:


> Seems Conti is indeed willing and ready to ride a GT - but only if Saxo-Tink secures a Pro-Tour spot.


And if Saxo-Tinkoff failed? What will happen to Conti's/Riis' dream of winning all three GT's in a single season?


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## LostViking (Jul 18, 2008)

@visitananda - I think that dream was abandoned a while back.

As predicted, the longer this situation goes on - the more silly it becomes:

Tinkov Claims Cycling's Doping Problems Are "exaggerated" | Cyclingnews.com

and this

Geschke, Kittel Unimpressed By Tinkov's Comments Over ProTeam Licence | Cyclingnews.com

Tinkov proved he is a tool, but the comments by Argos-Shimano riders don't reflect well on them either.

Both sides need to shut up and end the posturing.


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## LostViking (Jul 18, 2008)

Saxo-Tink just signed Michael Rodgers from Sky - should be a good addition.

Michael Rogers Leaves Sky For Saxo-Tinkoff | Cyclingnews.com

Radio Shanty has not re-signed with Gerdemann - wonder if Riis is on the phone?

http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/gerdemann-still-looking-for-a-team-for-2013


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## cda 455 (Aug 9, 2010)

LostViking said:


> Saxo-Tink just signed Michael Rodgers from Sky - should be a good addition.
> 
> Radio Shanty has not re-signed with Gerdemann - wonder if Riis is on the phone?



Wow; Rodgers is with Saxo now!


Thanks for the update.


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## vismitananda (Jan 16, 2011)

Well the only thing this two team should do is just wait and hope for the best.

Too bad, another season before we see a GT domination by Conti, or if everything is settled.


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## LostViking (Jul 18, 2008)

Saxo AND Argos are in and Katusha is out!

Katusha Denied 2013 WorldTour Licence | Cyclingnews.com

Okay, I didn't see that one coming.

Congrats to LuckyD and Spookyload for reading the tea leaves correctly! :thumbsup:


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## cda 455 (Aug 9, 2010)

LostViking said:


> Saxo AND Argos are in and Katusha is out!
> 
> Katusha Denied 2013 WorldTour Licence | Cyclingnews.com
> 
> ...


Whoa!!

Seems like Katusha didn't see it coming either  !


I little bit of W.A.G.:

I wonder if UCI simply just bumped Katusha to make way for the other two teams and had their lawyers think up some bureaucratic BS as to why they did what they did? ::shrugs::


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## LostViking (Jul 18, 2008)

This process has created a lot of bad blood (<- no pun intended) between Saxo-Tinkoff and Argos-Shimano - wonder if we'll see that play out during the season?


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## vismitananda (Jan 16, 2011)

Holy molly cow! I can't believe this, Katusha is the most successful team this season because of "Purito"

Oh God why UCI? Why?


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## LostViking (Jul 18, 2008)

vismitananda said:


> Holy molly cow! I can't believe this, Katusha is the most successful team this season because of "Purito"
> 
> Oh God why UCI? Why?


I agree with your shock - but I would venture that Sky was the most succesful team this year.

J Rod had an amazing year and I think most of us are surprized by how this flipped.

J Rod is, I believe, free to get another ride now that Katusha is not Pro Tour. 
IMHO he needs to do so pronto! He is in the shape of his life now - he is a real and present threat at any race he enters - he can't be dependent on wild-card invites.

Picture a Tour de France fought out between Conti, Purito, Froome, Andy and a resurgent Cadel! Throw in Valverde, TeJay and a few others and this TdF could be one for the record books.


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## vismitananda (Jan 16, 2011)

LostViking said:


> I agree with your shock - but I would venture that Sky was the most succesful team this year.
> 
> J Rod had an amazing year and I think most of us are surprized by how this flipped.
> 
> ...


Oh my mistake, it should be "one of the successful teams" this season. 

Does Purito has said anything about this? He should switch to other team to keep his streak pumping, he's not just a real threat to other GC contenders but a monster threat on them.

W/ those big names present at the GT's next season will be so exciting.


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