# Wahoo ELEMNT



## Wetworks

Just saw the announcement for this. TL;DR version, it does everything the Garmin 520 promises (and then some) but with what sounds to be better integration with smartphones (and presumably less bugginess). It won't be available until the winter, but I think it sounds like a slam-dunk for under the tree, at least for me.

Wahoo’s new GPS bike computer–ELEMNT: Hands-on first look | DC Rainmaker


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## MMsRepBike

Looks nice.


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## wgscott

If it does Di2 integration, I might get my first ever such device. (I've never even had one of those odometer thingies with the peg on the wheel.)


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## ibericb

Ditto


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## mimason

Just started looking at the 520 until this surfaced. Going to give this a hard look too.


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## Wetworks

I finally bit and placed my order. It's started shipping for the early adopters, hopefully I won't have to wait too long to receive mine.


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## spdntrxi

It does SM02 as well... Might have to pick one up.. Sell my 810 that gets no use .


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## wgscott

The website mentions iOS and iPhone, but not other devices like iPads. I'm hoping it will work with other iOS devices. Anyone know?


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## Migen21

I got the 'your order has shipped' email.

I'm a bit irked that they don''t sell additional mounts on their website. Well, that's not entirely true. They do sell the K-EDGE XL with the ELEMNT insert in it, but it only comes in Wahoo Blue (blegh).

Someone from their support site told me that they are going to publish the 3D printing file for the insert, which should fit in any standard out front style mount. 

The package will come with three mounts. An out-front style, and stem mount, and aero bar mount. I'd like the option to purchase extras of the out-front style like those included (K-Edge are nice, but pricey).


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## spdntrxi

is it the same as the garmin? I have Canyon H11 bars so I'm very limited.


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## Migen21

The insert is different than Garmin's. I'm pretty sure there was licensing issues with them using the same mount.

However, if you have a K-Edge, or something similar, with a removable insert, you can just replace the insert in your existing mount. The problem is, Wahoo isn't selling the inserts. You have to buy an entire new K-Edge, and it only comes in Wahoo Blue. The support person I spoke to told me that they will be putting the 3D printing data file online for the insert, so maybe someone set up to print them, or selling through shapeways can sell us some. =)


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## MMsRepBike

Looks to me like it's just a Garmin one rotated 90 degrees.

I would use a Garmin mount and break the tabs on the Wahoo and install a Dogears.

A k-edge mount broke a tab on my Garmin so I had to install a Dogears or something like it. Works great and there's no risk of the aluminum breaking.


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## TricrossRich

DC Rainmaker was able to get it to fit into his standard Garmin mounts with a little extra push, but thinks this may result in broken tabs from prolonged use.


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## Special Eyes

Someone send them a vowel.


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## Migen21

I emailed K-Edge about the ELEMNT mount availability. Here is the response they sent me.




K-Edge Support said:


> We do have those available in Black and Gunmetal as well as Combo mounts in Black. These are not available on our website yet but we are working on making that happen. Let me know if I can help further.


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## wgscott

Special Eyes said:


> Someone send them a vowel.


I'm probably dating myself (not that anyone else would):



> *Clinton Deploys Vowels to Bosnia*
> 
> (originally appeared in The Onion, Number One In News)
> Cities of Sjlbvdnzv, Grzny to Be First Recipients
> 
> Before an emergency joint session of Congress yesterday, President Clinton announced US plans to deploy over 75,000 vowels to the war-torn region of Bosnia. The deployment, the largest of its kind in American history, will provide the region with the critically needed letters A,E,I,O and U, and is hoped to render countless Bosnian names more pronounceable.
> "For six years, we have stood by while names like Ygrjvslhv and Tzlynhr and Glrm have been horribly butchered by millions around the world," Clinton said. "Today, the United States must finally stand up and say 'Enough.' It is time the people of Bosnia finally had some vowels in their incomprehensible words. The US is proud to lead the crusade in this noble endeavour."
> 
> The deployment, dubbed Operation Vowel Storm by the State Department, is set for early next week, with the Adriatic port cities of Sjlbvdnzv and Grzny slated to be the first recipients. Two C-130 transport planes, each carrying over 500 24-count boxes of "E's," will fly from Andrews Air Force Base across the Atlantic and airdrop the letters over the cities.
> 
> Citizens of Grzny and Sjlbvdnzv eagerly await the arrival of the vowels. "My God, I do not think we can last another day," Trszg Grzdnjkln, 44, said. "I have six children and none of them has a name that is understandable to me or to anyone else. Mr. Clinton, please send my poor, wretched family just one 'E.' Please."
> 
> Said Sjlbvdnzv resident Grg Hmphrs, 67: "With just a few key letters, I could be George Humphries. This is my dream."
> 
> The airdrop represents the largest deployment of any letter to a foreign country since 1984. During the summer of that year, the US shipped 92,000 consonants to Ethiopia, providing cities like Ouaouoaua, Eaoiiuae, and Aao with vital, life-giving supplies of L's, S's and T's.


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## Migen21

My Elemnt came today.

I am pleased with the physical aspects of the unit. The size, display, buttons, etc.. are all as expected (pretty good). 

I'm a little disappointed with some of the software stuff. Not a huge suprise that there are some bugs, at least for me

I could not get any routes to sync (I might just need to give the system more time to sync to my accounts?). Every time I pressed the "Sync" button, nothing would happen. It just kept looping back to the screen showing no synced routes. The Android app crashed on my a couple of times when trying to get routes to sync (I might have been jamming buttons a little to fast in my impatience). I also noticed in the 20 minutes I was playing around trying to get stuff to work, and playing around with the data screens, my phone battery went from 70% to 60%. Hopefully this isn't indicative of how the battery performs under actual riding conditions. 

I paired most of my sensors, but for some reason one of my Stages PM's was not detected, and it isn't detecting either of my Di2 D-Fly units. 

I only had about 30 minutes to play with it before I had to leave. I put it on the charger for tonight. I'll play with it some more tomorrow.

Looking at the weather forecast, I probably won't be able to take it outside for an actual test for at least a week or so, but I may be able to play around with the KICKR control stuff if I can get a route to sync from Strava or RideWithGPS.

Edit: I should add that while the few bugs are annoying, they aren't deal breakers at all. I really liked the user interface as a whole. So much better usability and readability in both the unit and the phone app over their competitors. I'm pretty excited to get it out on an actual ride and see how it performs.


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## Drew Eckhardt

I posted a review on the ELEMNT users Google group I created showing some good things and where it doesn't work as well as the Edge 500:

https://groups.google.com/d/msg/wahoo-elemnt-users/_rAfQfx7TSo/fURd6LN_FAAJ


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## Roland44

Drew Eckhardt said:


> I posted a review on the ELEMNT users Google group I created showing some good things and where it doesn't work as well as the Edge 500:
> 
> https://groups.google.com/d/msg/wahoo-elemnt-users/_rAfQfx7TSo/fURd6LN_FAAJ


Excellent review, thanks for taking the time to post it!


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## Wetworks

Got my "your order has shipped" email today! Can't wait to get my hands on this thing!


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## TiCoyote

Can't wait to hear some more reviews!


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## Migen21

I finally resolved my Route sync issues. I had to do a device reset, then connect it to my WiFi and do a firmware update.

I'm fairly disappointed in the featureset at this point. Particularly the fact that I can't control the KICKR with a pre-recorded ride. This is one of the features I really wanted.

Also, it's more of a nice-to-have, but the Di2 integration is still not live. It's due in the next firmware update. Hopefully that'll drop soon.

I'm also a bit concerned about battery life for both the unit and the phone. I have only played around with it at home (no outdoor rides yet), but just syncing my routes,configuring my sensors, setting up WiFi, etc.. took 25% of my phone battery. 

I really like the app interface (at least on my Android - LG V10). It's much easier to configure the settings and set up screens that way. 

I'll be taking it out for a couple of rides this weekend. I'll report back on the batter life and usability stuff after that.

Edit to add:
Here is the link to the software updates page on wahoo's support site.
ELEMNT Software Updates ? Wahoo Fitness Support

A lot of the features I wanted are in that update. 

*ELEMNT WFXX-XXX - Coming Soon!*



[*=left]Added support for Di2 gear and battery display.
[*=left]Added support for Muscle Oxygen sensors (eg. Moxy and BSXInsight)
[*=left]Added support for 9 new languages. French, Dutch, German, Korean, Japanese, Spanish, Chinese (Simplified), Italian, Portuguese (Brazil)
[*=left]Added Smoothed Torque field
[*=left]Added LED & Audio alerts to Lap events
[*=left]Added better audio alerts for pause/resume.
[*=left]Added new battery icon when ELEMNT is on charge
[*=left]Added support for latest KICKR firmware (1.4.40.0)
[*=left]Added KICKR no-control mode for when using with 3rd party software at the same time
[*=left]Hide Map and Climb page when connected to a KICKR and not in Route mode.
[*=left]Improved consistency in AVG/MAX/LAP titles
[*=left]Improved support for latest Wahoo Cadence (>=2.0.16)
[*=left]Improved auto-pause logic to remove false pauses.
[*=left]Fixed with with temperature readings being 5C/9F too high.
[*=left]Fixed 0 average speed and average power values on display.
[*=left]Fixed crash when quickly cycling through workout pages
[*=left]Fixed pairing ANT+ HR when >25 sensors are in range.
[*=left]Fixed KJ value being 4x too high.
[*=left]Fixed reporting of ELEMNT version to companion apps.

Past Updates:
*ELEMNT WF38-164 - 25th Feb 2016*



[*=left]Fixed false auto-pauses on some sensor dropouts
[*=left]Fix for Polar BT sensors

*ELEMNT WF34-162 - 12th Feb 2016*



[*=left]Improved speed of workout transfer to companion app.
[*=left]Improved handling when you lose/forget your speed sensor magnet.
[*=left]Removed LED function override when pairing a power meter.
[*=left]Removed TSS/KJ fields override when pairing power meter.
[*=left]Fixed Bluetooth connection stability to phone and sensors
[*=left]Fixed Bluetooth error causing required reboot
[*=left]Fixed network communications on some wifi networks.
[*=left]Fixed reconnection of ANT+ Speed & Cadence sensor.
[*=left]Fixed crash when stopping sensor (ANT+) discovery.
[*=left]Fixed issue with temperature sensor starting.
[*=left]Fixed crash when closing the route menu.
[*=left]Fixed FIT file not visible up on USB after ride.
[*=left]Fixed crash when importing route from ride history (via companion app).
[*=left]Fixed crash when finishing very long workout (8+ hours).
*ELEMNT WF29-142 - Initial Release*​


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## Drew Eckhardt

TiCoyote said:


> Can't wait to hear some more reviews!



I updated mine now that I've done side-by-side comparisons and successfully imported data into Golden Cheetah

https://groups.google.com/d/msg/wahoo-elemnt-users/_rAfQfx7TSo/fURd6LN_FAAJ

It turns out the ELEMNT over-reports 5 second power (generally 20%, but can exceed 50%) and synthesizes values where sensors reported 0 power/speed/heart rate.



Here's a chunk of recovery ride from this weekend. Note what the ELEMNT exports as a .FIT file for a traffic light stop around 3 minutes

Auto-pause is turned off as it should be.


versus what my Edge 500 recorded


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## Wetworks

Received mine today. Very slick Apple-esque packaging, happy with the overall design aesthetic, functional yet clean. Not sure if it's been mentioned previously, but all the buttons are rubberized. 

Pairing the device with my phone, WiFi, speed and cadence sensors, HR sensor was dead simple and went without a hitch. Same for the page customization. Hopefully my balky knee will cooperate and I will get to take my new toy out for a spin this weekend.


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## Wetworks

Finally got out for a ride today and was able to give the ELEMNT a go. First the good, then the bad.

PROS:

Beautiful, crisp, easy to read display.
Button integration is logical and easy to use
Pairing went well
Page customization is easy and intuitive
Customer support is great, which leads me to the cons and why I know this.

CONS:

Dropped sensors: 
Lost my HR (Polar), cadence (Topeak) temporarily, and my speed (Topeak) almost entirely. When I uploaded to Strava, my segment speeds were there, but average for them as well as the entire ride were WAY off (~10MPH less). There were times that the speed was displayed, by my estimation, correctly. But more often than not it showed either nothing (0 MPH) or a progression of 3-5 MPH, which coincidentally (again by my estimation) was about 5x less than my actual speed. I was able to get the speed to register correctly after coming to a full stop, but it would quickly disappear again.​
GPS Issues: 
This was my regular route of just over 16 miles, the ELEMNT lost 10 of them. Not sure if this was related to the speed sensor issue or not, but it happened nonetheless.​
Battery life:
This ride took just over an hour and ate up 25% of the battery, a far cry from the purported 20+ hour battery life.​
Cyclemeter: 
Isn't supported at this time, which is weird considering the REFLKT did. ​
Ride titles: 
Defaults to 'Lunch Ride', haven't seen anywhere to change that.​
While I expected to experience some level of bugginess as an early adopter, this is excessive, and IMO, unacceptable. Thankfully, Wahoo support has been very communicative in dealing with complaints so I am hopeful that I will see some resolution to these problems soon. But as of now, this expensive bike computer is, for me, being outperformed by my $4.99 premium version of Cyclemeter.


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## TricrossRich

Wetworks said:


> Finally got out for a ride today and was able to give the ELEMNT a go. First the good, then the bad.
> 
> PROS:
> 
> Beautiful, crisp, easy to read display.
> Button integration is logical and easy to use
> Pairing went well
> Page customization is easy and intuitive
> Customer support is great, which leads me to the cons and why I know this.
> 
> CONS:
> 
> Dropped sensors: Lost my HR (Polar), cadence (Topeak) temporarily, and my speed (Topeak) almost entirely. When I uploaded to Strava, my segment speeds were there, but average for them as well as the entire ride were WAY off (~10MPH less). There were times that the speed was displayed, by my estimation, correctly. But more often than not it showed either nothing (0 MPH) or a progression of 3-5 MPH, which coincidentally (again by my estimation) was about 5x less than my actual speed. I was able to get the speed to register correctly after coming to a full stop, but it would quickly disappear again.​
> GPS Issues: This was my regular route of just over 16 miles, the ELEMNT lost 10 of them. Not sure if this was related to the speed sensor issue or not, but it happened nonetheless.​
> Battery life:This ride took just over an hour and ate up 25% of the battery, a far cry from the purported 20+ hour battery life.​
> Cyclemeter: Isn't supported at this time, which is weird considering the REFLKT did. ​
> Ride titles: Defaults to 'Lunch Ride', haven't seen anywhere to change that.​
> While I expected to experience some level of bugginess as an early adopter, this is excessive, and IMO, unacceptable. Thankfully, Wahoo support has been very communicative in dealing with complaints so I am hopeful that I will see some resolution to these problems soon. But as of now, this expensive bike computer is, for me, being outperformed by my $4.99 premium version of Cyclemeter.


Ouch... hopefully they get things figured out. Sounds like a LOT of issues need correcting.


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## Migen21

I got out for an decent ride with my ELEMNT yesterday. My findings are similar to others.

*PROS*


I like the phone UI for the initial setup
The display is easy to read in most any light condition (except darkness), even with the backlight off.
Battery life was good for me. My total elapsed time (including pauses) was about 4.5 hours and I ended at 53%. Not 20 hours, but plenty for what I need. This was with the phone connected and Live Track running.
The screens are fairly easy to configure, even mid-ride. I made several adjustments to the display pages during my rest stops and it was seamless and updated dynamically.
The bottom three buttons are easy enough to use while riding. Easy enough to feel that you don't really need to look down to hit a lap button (for example).
Overall, the thing feels solid and well made. I haven't dropped it, but I don't feel like it would break if I did.

*Cons*


The page layout stuff really needs some work. While the UI for setting them up is good, I really feel like I need more control over the size and location of the individual fields beyond just the order they go in. For example, I use the lap counter to track when I eat (on longer rides). I use the lap time field on one of my displays, but I don't think the lap number field should take an entire field on it's own, especially when there are so few available, or I should be able to make it much smaller.
The Live Track feature worked well, but it's very limited. All it shows on the web page is a green position marker to show where you are. There is no other data (route, start, track, speed, etc...), so it's difficult for the viewer to know what's going on other than the unit is in an activity and has connectivity.
The Live Track URL is persistent for the account. Meaning that once someone has it, they will always be able to use it to know your location during a ride_. _They need to either allow a one-time use URL, or issue them on a per-ride basis.
Mount availability is limited to one. As far as I know, the only mount available is K-Edge you buy from Wahoo. I saw in an email that BarFly and K-Edge will be selling them as well, and that the 'puck/insert' will be available separately for the modular units. If any 3D printing wizards are out there, this might be an opportunity. I have half a dozen garmin mounts that I need inserts for.
The large up/down buttons on the side are a bit stiff, and can be awkward to get to when mounted on the bike. Fortunately, they aren't really used for much during a ride.
There is no attachment point for a security lanyard. On my Garmin Edge units, I like looping the security lanyard around something on the bike, so there is no chance for it to get knocked off, or stolen via a grab and dash.
As someone else detailed, map function isn't great. The only real use for it would be to follow a new route you weren't familiar with, but even then, with no turn by turn, and no street labels on the screen, it's limited.
Sensor dropouts. My unit lost connection my stages power meter during one of my breaks. It didn't just not have data, it actually registered and logged 7 watts for an entire hour of my ride, despite the fact that the unit obviously wasn't connected (looking at the sensor paring screen).
The app absolutely KILLED my phone battery. I went from 100% to 4% battery life on my phone (LG V10) during my 4.5 hour ride. I did use the Live Track, which uses blue tooth and the phones connectivity to show your location on a web site. This is a core feature as far as I'm concerned, but they really need to find a way to optimize the apps battery usage in this scenario.
No Di2 data fields. While I was surprised to find that it paired to my Di2 D-Fly unit, it did not make any data fields available for it (I like to see my Di2 battery status on my head unit). I understand this will be added in a future update.
Auto Pause Didn't. On my rest/food stops, I had to manually pause the activity.

Bottom line is, the unit is functional, but not amazing. I experienced a handful of bugs, and some frustration trying to get my data screens the way I want them. I think it has a lot of potential to be a great unit once it's a little more polished.

I think next ride, I'm going to run my Edge 1000 and the ELEMNT in tandem and compare some things (battery life, GPS accuracy, sensor stability, etc...)


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## mshow1323

First I'll address what others have been commenting on.

I have a Rec-Mount system from Japan, it takes some coaxing, but it does hold the unit perfectly. As others have posted at this point, Cyclometer is a stronger computer the only problem I had with that is battery life of my iPhone, otherwise I would not have gone with the Elemnt at all.
Cons:I have the new Element, but the Elemnt itself, it will not display my Data from my other Wahoo sensors. Neither my Wahoo Blue Heart Rate Monitor, my Doutrap cadence device, or my Wahoo Bluetooth cadence device display any data other than Speed. Heart Rate and Cadence are not being displayed at all. All I can see is N/A. All three of this device are paired and have no problem sending data to the Wahoo Fitness App, Wahoo Elemnt App, Wahoo Utility App, and Abvio Apps (Cyclometer and Walkmeter). What gives?
I sent this to support, on Friday and as of Sunday morning, I'm still waiting for a reply. Do any of you guys have any ideas?


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## Migen21

mshow, have you done a firmware update?

If not, connect to a WiFi using the mobile app, then go into the system menu on the device, and check for a Firmware update. It might solve your problems. 

If not, I'd say your unit is defective.


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## mshow1323

I'm on version WF38-219. It tells me I'm up to date, are you on the same version?


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## mshow1323

Migen21 said:


> mshow, have you done a firmware update?
> 
> If not, connect to a WiFi using the mobile app, then go into the system menu on the device, and check for a Firmware update. It might solve your problems.
> 
> If not, I'd say your unit is defective.


I got it. I had to pair all the apps, the Elemnt, my phone, do a factory reset, and then pair it directly to the device and not through the app. I don't know which actually did the trick, but it works now. Thanks for getting me to think outside of the box.


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## Migen21

I had my second ride today, and the unit performed flawlessly. This ride was shorter (just over two hours - no pauses).

I did have a problem with Live Track. At some point early in the ride my unit lost contact with my phone, but I'm about 95% sure this is a problem with the bluetooth stack on my LG-V10, as I have problems with other bluetooth connections (headphones, car head unit, etc...) as well.


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## Wetworks

Migen21 said:


> I had my second ride today, and the unit performed flawlessly. This ride was shorter (just over two hours - no pauses).
> 
> I did have a problem with Live Track. At some point early in the ride my unit lost contact with my phone, but I'm about 95% sure this is a problem with the bluetooth stack on my LG-V10, as I have problems with other bluetooth connections (headphones, car head unit, etc...) as well.


Don't be too sure to place it all at the feet of the LG. I noticed something peculiar last night with the ELEMNT and BT. I had the unit mounted on one bike, with the other directly next to it, like within a foot. In 'settings' you can view BT signal strength of connected sensors by way of bars. The bike it was mounted to showed 3/4 bars for signal strength, with the bike next to it at 2/4. I'm sorry, but BTLE is supposed to be strong up to 30' AFAIK, a distance I doubt with the ELEMNT given what I observed. Further solidifying that belief is the sensor that gave it the least amount of problems, my HR monitor, which is directly in front of it with no obstructions.


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## Migen21

The reason I'm fairly certain it was the phone is because my LG G-Watch R also lost connectivity at the same time. Toggling airiplane mode on the phone resolved both issues.


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## Migen21

I just got an update for the ELEMNT Android app. 

New version is 1.1.0.15(115)

I don't have my ELEMNT with me, but it's telling me I have to re-pair the unit.

According to the 'What's New' section on the app description, they added new localization's, the ability to export a .fit file (nice addition), and some misc. bug fixes.

Edit: 
I just re-paired my ELEMNT to the phone. I only had a few minutes to play around with it. I didn't notice a lot new. The routes page on the app has the ability to create a new route (manual import from Strava or RideWithGPS), from your ride history (on the device), or from an uploaded .fit file. I don't recall seeing this before this update, but I may have just not noticed it. 

Unfortunately, I tried to import a route from RideWithGPS (I hadn't previous imported my routes from here), and as soon as it finished, the app crashed. The import completed, and I didn't lose anything, other than having to restart the app, so no harm done. I'll report this as a bug on the support page.


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## Migen21

New ELEMNT firmware is available today.

To update, connect to WiFi using the smartphone app, then on the unit, tap the power button, scroll to 'System Info' and press 'Open', then to 'Version' and press 'Check'. Follow the prompts.

D-Fly support. \0/
<header class="article-header clearfix" style="box-sizing: border-box; margin: 0px; padding: 0px; color: rgb(0, 52, 121); font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif; line-height: 19.5px; text-align: center;">*

ELEMNT SOFTWARE UPDATES*​
</header>*ELEMNT WF38-221 - 23RD MARCH 2016*




[*=left]Added support for 9 new languages. French, Dutch, German, Korean, Japanese, Spanish, Chinese (Simplified), Italian, Portuguese (Brazil)
[*=left]Added support for Muscle Oxygen sensors (eg. Moxy and BSXInsight)

[*=left]https://www.bsxinsight.com
[*=left]http://www.moxymonitor.com

[*=left]Added support for Di2 gear and battery display. (D-Fly required)

[*=left]Di2 Wireless Connectivity with D-Fly

[*=left]Added support for SRAM eTap gear and battery display

[*=left]https://www.sram.com/sram/road/family/sram-red-etap


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## Migen21

And....

K-Edge has mounts (that aren't blue) and inserts for the ELEMNT to replace the ones on your existing K-Edge garmin mounts.

https://www.acecosportgroup.com/k-edge-computer-mounts/wahoo-elemnt-mounts.html


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## 9W9W

Daaaamn......

this new piece of kit is nice!

//starts packing own 510 for eBay sale after hitting submit button//

I really like the fact that the Wahoo has a kindle type sharp and clear screen...the Garmin leaves much to be desired.


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## Migen21

Well,

I learned something today I did not know. I guess it pays to actually watch the tutorials. 

You can 'zoom' in or out on any data page (to display more or less fields) by using the up/down buttons on the right side of the unit.

To some degree, this mitgates my complaint about the lack of flexibility in configuring the data screens. However, it puts more emphasis on my complaint about the side buttons being too stiff. They are awkward to manipulate while riding.

On another note, I was having some strange issues with my unit after the last firmware update. It was being flaky about WiFi connections, and bluetooth between the phone and unit would not stay connected. I also couldn't get it to add new sensors (it wouldn't detect them).

I finally gave in and did a factory reset on the unit, after which everything seems to be working fine.

I also tested the incoming text message and phone call notification, and it works flawlessly (assuming reliable mobile phone service and the Bluetooth connection stays up). Note that you can disable the test/phone notification if you choose.


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## mshow1323

I had the same problem regarding connectivity this afternoon. My cadence would drop in and out from time to time. 
I also find it much easier to setup multiple customizable pages rather than trying to use those side buttons to zoom. The Page button is much easier to use.

What really sticks is that I was trying to run my Cyclometer and Elemnt at the same time in order to compare the two, but you cannot pair sensors to two different systems at the same time. 
Truth be told, I will miss using Cyclometer, I think it's a much more power app than the Elemnt is as a stand alone unit. I'm really gonna miss not listening to Podcasts while on the trail. I' strongly thinking about returning the unit and picking up an external battery that I can throw into a top tube bag that will last me all day.


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## Wetworks

Today I set out after having yesterday's ride offer more of the same with regards to my speed not registering and having miles lost. What I did differently was I disabled my Topeak Speed/Cadence sensor. The reason for this was despite having my cadence work well the day before, the speed sensor didn't register more than a few minutes at various points of my ride, despite my having disabled GPS speed on the ELEMNT. Well, I am happy to report that doing so resulted in a successful ride, with no dropouts or any other mishaps. The downside is that the Topeak unit is pretty much useless as of now, so I ordered a standalone cadence unit and will rely on GPS speed for the time being. 

Wahoo has been outstanding with their communication. Here's hoping any small issues others are having get resolved quickly.


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## HyperSprite

Why I am leaving the 510:
I have been using the 510 for a while and I am not sure I have ever finished an important ride (3 LGF's, SLO Gran Fondo, NYGF to name a few) without it doing something stupid (forgetting what Ant+ is, drawing a straight line from one place to the next, the list goes on). Besides random things, it could not even do the basics like being able to read it on a shady trail (and certainly not without glasses). It was replaced once by garmin because the ears broke off (before dogears) and the new unit always seemed more buggy than the old one (like when it failed to start the night before the Rockwell Relay and the only way to get it to boot was to do a hard reset and I spent half my first leg setting the thing up).

Why I am keeping the Elemnt:
I've used the Elemnt on 5 outdoor rides so far and the last ride clinched it for me, it is a keeper. I rode 99 miles with over 10k of climbing yesterday and it finished the 7:30 HH:MM time (6:30 moving) with 18% battery left. The battery life still needs some work and I will probably disable live track if I am going to be outside cell coverage again for an extended period of time since I probably only had coverage 20% of the time. It also killed the battery in my Nexus 6P which normally goes 2 days between charges (so again, disable live track would probably fix that too, especially since I am not using live track and I hardly ever have coverage when I ride). 

Climbing without my (reader) sunglasses, I could still read the display, easily.

Navigation buttons, I swear on the garmin, swipe it, half the time it brings up soft buttons. Not something I want to mess with when I am getting ready for a big descent. With the Elemnt, the "Page" button just works. 

But the clincher, when my buddy uploaded his ride from his 510 to Strava, all he got was the parking lot (even though it shows all of the segments, miles and elevation), the map is 40 feet long. Mine looked flawless. 

There are bugs for sure (which it looks like they are working on tirelessly) and I am not enamored with he way they are using the side LEDs for Up/Down for average power, I would rather they let me set a target power, like FTP, so they would have some real world use. I don't know, maybe the Elemnt will fail at crunch time as well but I do know the 510 will never be on my bike again and garmin won't see another cent from me, they had so much time and so many chances... I'm done.


----------



## Migen21

Nice write up.

I use the side LED's for HR zones, which fits my needs perfectly.


----------



## Wetworks

Migen21 said:


> Nice write up.
> 
> I use the side LED's for HR zones, which fits my needs perfectly.


Ditto. 

I added a Wahoo speed sensor to my order, so I will report back when I have all the, ahem, elements in place.


----------



## 9W9W

HyperSprite said:


> I don't know, maybe the Elemnt will fail at crunch time as well but I do know the 510 will never be on my bike again and garmin won't see another cent from me, they had so much time and so many chances... I'm done.


couldn't have said it better! screw Garmin, they peed away so many chances to get it better (if not right). 

picking one up soon and looking for the much improved 3rd party file support/interface.


----------



## Coolhand

I have a Wahoo Kickr trainer, so I have been interested in this. Please keep posting your experiences!


----------



## STRANA

I have been lucky with my 510 until about 5-6 weeks ago. Now it is screwing up all the time I have done more then one reset and it hasn't helped at all. I had read so many people having bad luck with their 510 that I knew I was doing good with the one I had until.... 

I had been watching this already as the 510 always sucked on the touchscreen and the contrast was craptastic at best. I'm very hopeful that the Elemnt will be my new toy.


----------



## Wetworks

Got out for a quick ride after work. I am using both a Wahoo speed sensor as well as cadence (their new models) and I have to say I am really pleased now with the ELEMNT. Both sensors are connected via ANT+ and my HRM is connected via BT. I am guessing a big part of the problem for me was the Topeak. From what I understand, this isn't surprising to some people, so I will take this as a teaching moment. 

I cannot stress how terrific the entire Wahoo team has been during this product launch. They have been extremely receptive to buyer feedback and suggestions, as well as being proactive in dealing with problems users have experienced. My faith in this purchase is 100% restored, and then some.


----------



## Drew Eckhardt

Wetworks said:


> I cannot stress how terrific the entire Wahoo team has been during this product launch. They have been extremely receptive to buyer feedback and suggestions, as well as being proactive in dealing with problems users have experienced. My faith in this purchase is 100% restored, and then some.


To quote Murray:



> We won’t be launching with turn by turn, the ELEMNT currently has On-Route / Off-Route detection and “distance to go”. We will be enabling Turn by Turn in Q1 for RideWithGPS routes but unsure about when we can support turn by turn from Strava as they don’t currently provide the cue sheets.


where Q1 has come and gone and now according to Ray Maker



> Right now much of the catch-up navigation type features are planned to be added by “end of year”.


By "catch-up navigation type features" we're talking about functionality in the Garmin Edge 500 which predates the ELEMNT by 6.5 years.


----------



## Wetworks

Migen21 said:


> And....
> 
> K-Edge has mounts (that aren't blue) and inserts for the ELEMNT to replace the ones on your existing K-Edge garmin mounts.
> 
> https://www.acecosportgroup.com/k-edge-computer-mounts/wahoo-elemnt-mounts.html


I ordered a red one. Wasn't there as an option last I checked, so I'm glad I waited.


----------



## Migen21

I'm sure everyone reading this thread that is considering purchasing an ELEMNT has read DC Rainmakers full detailed review (posted on 3/31/2016).


If not, please give it a thorough read. There is a ton of detail and comparisons to other competing/similar units.
Wahoo ELEMNT GPS Bike Computer In-Depth Review | DC Rainmaker


Also, be aware that Wahoo has released at least one firmware update that his article does not reflect completely (Di2 and ETAP data can now be displayed). 


There are also updates pending (per conversations I've had with support) to address some of the shortfalls and bugs he mentioned.


For my part, I've used the unit on 7 different outdoor rides and one indoor ride (using it to control the KICKR). There isn't really much I can say here that he doesn't cover.


As far as the turn-by-turn GPS and map labels being missing, I don't really find this to be a big issue. I have a Garmin Edge 1000 that does those things really well, and I almost never use them. 99.9% of my rides are in areas I'm familiar with. That said, I have used the 'Follow Route' function, and much like Ray, I found it works perfectly well for following an existing (imported) route. The one caveat (Ray also mentioned this) is that you do need to zoom in/out to see enough map detail to know about an upcoming turn that you aren't sure of. The zooming function isn't exactly snappy, and it's hard to read the current zoom level on the screen. After playing around with it a few times, I got fairly adept at it, and while it could definitely use some improvement, I find it works just fine for what it does.


Now that I've learned how to zoom in on the data pages, I have a bit of a love/hate relationship with them. I think I'd rather just have the ability to make each screen custom, including the field sizes, and then use the 'Page' button to switch to the page that I need. The zoom function is very cool. I can put data fields I don't want to see constantly closer to the bottom, and those I watch closely (HR, Time of Day, and Cadence for me) at the top, and other stuff, like current speed and power at the bottom, then set the zoom level as needed.


For some odd reason, the third line ("Front Num" in Rays example below) of the data panels is always full screen width. Basically taking up the same space as two data fields. This is fine if I want to put a really wide data point there (HH:MM:SS, or similar), but I don't. It's usually just a one or two digit number, and it's a huge waste of space. Other screens (climbing data, ride summary, etc.. use the full screen.


It should probably just be a minor gripe, but for some reason it annoys the crap out of me. 










Photo Credit: Ray Maker
DC Rainmaker


Also, just FYI for K-Edge users. I ordered the replacement inserts for the ELEMNT (to swap in place of the Garmin inserts on some K-Edge out-front style mounts) last week and received them today ($5.99 ea).


----------



## Wetworks

Received my K-Edge today, really happy with it. Here's some Q&Ds:


----------



## Migen21

So,

Lots of good riding weather in my area means lots of playing around with the ELEMNT.

Anyone else having trouble with dropouts on combination BTLE/ANT+ devices? It could be coincidence, but I've been having trouble with Wahoo TICKR HRM (I own two of them - both keep dropping out, even with fresh batteries), and my Stages PM (Gen 1) with a fresh battery won't stay connected either. 

With the Stages, I'm 99% sure it's not the PM, because it it works fine with the android phone app.

Firmware is up to date on everything...


----------



## Wetworks

I've asked Wahoo about that and haven't received a response yet. So far, I haven't encountered the problem, but I feel I should be able to select the protocol I want to use on my combo devices to avoid the problem you are describing. More and more, I think the BT sensor in the ELEMNT is a big problem. 

I originally bought the ELEMNT because it COULD utilize both protocols. Now, I have new speed and cadence sensors, as well as a new HRM (all Wahoo) so I could use ANT+ instead and avoid the dropouts I was having with my BT devices. Oh well...


----------



## 9W9W

Migen21 said:


> So,
> Anyone else having trouble with dropouts on combination BTLE/ANT+ devices? It could be coincidence, but I've been having trouble with Wahoo TICKR HRM (I own two of them - both keep dropping out, even with fresh batteries), and my Stages PM (Gen 1) with a fresh battery won't stay connected either. With the Stages, I'm 99% sure it's not the PM, because it it works fine with the android phone app.
> Firmware is up to date on everything...


I was ready to pull the trigger but found chatter about this very same thing happening, dropouts, etc... one other review was a bit more outraged claiming it wasn't ready to prime time, etc... Now I'm a bit skittish of buying into the equivalent of a first iteration Garmin product. 

One function I am anticipating the most is the side LED display for speed and cadence/power. Have you found it useful? or is it one of these things better on paper than execution?

Also, I'm a bit confused, can i use my Garmin cadence/speed sensors with Wahoo? I have the new rubber style magnet less model.


----------



## Migen21

I wouldn't be too concerned about the state of the ELEMNT. It's more than decent in it's current form, and Wahoo is adding features fairly quickly. Unless you need a fully rando compliant turn-by-turn queue sheet style GPS system, I would not hesitate to buy the ELEMNT again if I were in the market. On the otherhand, if you already have a functioning Garmin you aren't unhappy with' then I'd say there is no big hurry either.

Also, their customer support is LIGHTYEARS ahead of Garmins in terms of being responsive to issues and questions. 

The side LED's were not even on my radar when I bought the unit, but they quickly became my favorite feature. I use mine for HR zones, which for my riding, is perfect. I can remove the BPM field from the top of the display, and use that space for other stuff I might want to check on periodically (Cadence, Time, etc..)

The ELEMNT is both ANT+ (dual band) and Bluetooth 4.0 compatible, so your Garmin speed and cadence sensors should work fine. 

A couple more minor nit-picks I'm trying to figure out.

I upgraded my phone to a new device (LG-G5), and when I paired the head unit to my new phone, it took forever for the rides to sync from the cloud down to the phone. I'm not entirely sure exactly how that process works. The rides immediately showed up on the list, but were all in 'Waiting for Sync' status. I had to toggle bluetooth off and on on the phone several times to keep the rides sync'ing, otherwise the process would hang. I opened a ticket with Wahoo on it, but by the time I got all the info updated, my workaround seems to have cleared up the problem. It seems that sometimes the ride data sync process is hanging. So far, toggling bluetooth off and on on the phone seems to shake it loose. 

Also, another note on ride syncing. Sometimes, when the ride data is taking a while to sync, if I'm not sitting there staring at the unit, the auto-shutoff will turn the unit off with the ride halfway sync'd. It seems to me that the auto-shutoff timer should pause when ride data is syncing.

Edit to add:
I tried the KICKR control function this morning. I chose a 'route' from strava that is a nice 7 mile loop around a nearby neighborhood. It's idea for doing some elevation without getting crazy (something the KICKR isn't great at). I loaded up the route and pressed start, and sure enough the KICKR adjusted the resistance as I rode up and down the various hills in the neighborhood, and I could see where I was on the route by watching the arrow move around on the map screen. 

As far as difficulty, I would say the resistance of the KICKR is not quite as much as riding up the actual grade, but it was good enough to get a decent effort in.

My only complaint is that this particular route is something I'd be inclined to repeat four or five times if I were actually riding it, but I couldn't find a way for the ELEMNT to let me repeat it, without ending the ride and going back into route the menu, re-selecting it, and starting a new ride each time. Kind of a pain. I'll be opening a ticket with Wahoo to ask about this.


----------



## BCSaltchucker

mshow1323 said:


> As others have posted at this point, Cyclometer is a stronger computer the only problem I had with that is battery life of my iPhone, otherwise I would not have gone with the Elemnt at all.


I have yet to out-ride the battery on my iPhone 6S, using Cyclemeter Prem app. Really like it, in a Topeak weatherproof case, mounts on my 3 bikes. Even has shock absorption to use on my mtb. I set the display to always-on and seems it will go well over 3 hours on oem battery. Using bluetooth Wahoo HRM, and bluetooth Stages power, and gps of course. Used in the rain and a serious amount of mud all winter

I have a little usb battery backup and shorty lighting cable for rides over 4 hours, will probably push it to 6 hours I think.

Battery life is the only reason considered the Elemnt for me. BUt good to hear reports on there that it might not outlast my iPhone in this role. and save me having to buying another expensive item.


----------



## Migen21

I had a long day on the bike today. About six hours of riding time all tolled, with no recharge. I ended the day at about 61% battery remaining. I'd say that's pretty good.

I had the live update running the entire time, but it wasn't being watched, and I don't think the phone and ELEMNT were connected the entire time. I did notice the 'Paired to Phone' message pop up on the screen at some random point on the ride, so I can only assume it disconnected at least once, for who knows how long. I had my phone in a backback and inside a phone wallet. I know this caused probelms for Garmin's bluetooth connection. I can only assume it was my fat belly causing that disconnect.

I put fresh batteries in all of my sensors today, and after six hours of riding, I had zero dropouts from HR (Wahoo TICKR) and Speed (Garmin Speed (new)). Unfortunately my power meter dropped out about 1/3 of the way into the rideand never came back. I'm about 95% sure this is a problem with the PM (it's going back to Stages for reconditioning next week). 

I'm still having odd sync issues between Wahoo's cloud, the ELEMNT and my (new LG G5) phone. I'm really not sure what to make of it, but it's really annoying. I finally gave up trying to get todays ride to sync and manually downloaded it via USB and imported it to Strava. I'm still waiting to hear from Wahoo on this issue.


----------



## Migen21

Another udpate after yesterdays 55 mile ride.

Battery life is still great. My ride was broken up over about six hours (some picnic stuff in between), and battery was still at about 60% when I finished the ride.

Sensors are working flawlessly (i.e no drops). I'm going to say that my sensor issues must have been due to bad batteries.

I did find another small issue. I'm not sure when this started, but I tried adding the "Di2 Battery" data field (they call it 'Shifing Battery') to my display, to see the battery level, and all I get is "N/A". It is reporting gear change status on the screen (which I could care less about), so I know the D-Fly is working. I opened a new ticket with Wahoo on this.

Lastly, ride sync'ing (to their cloud, and up to Strava) is still painful. The last two times I've used it it's taken over three hours to sync the ride. Yesterday, the unit auto-shut off on me twice before it finally sync'd when I powered it up after the last power on. I think this is a bluetooth issue, but I'm not sure if it's the unit itself or the phone (which is new - Android 6.01 Marshmallow). I think after today's ride, I'm going to leave bluetooth off and bring it home, and see if it will sync quicker over WiFi.

At least with this sync issue, there is a workaround getting uploads to Strava. I can always go old-school and plug it into the computer and download the .fit file and Import it manually.


----------



## floralagator

Thread hijack but Wahoo related. For those who may be using Wahoo's cadence sensor, what has been your experience? I have one and am a little disappointed. It seems to be pretty slow to respond to changes in rpm.

Sent from my SM-N920V using Tapatalk


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## Wetworks

Migen21 said:


> Another udpate after yesterdays 55 mile ride.
> 
> Battery life is still great. My ride was broken up over about six hours (some picnic stuff in between), and battery was still at about 60% when I finished the ride.
> 
> Sensors are working flawlessly (i.e no drops). I'm going to say that my sensor issues must have been due to bad batteries.
> 
> I did find another small issue. I'm not sure when this started, but I tried adding the "Di2 Battery" data field (they call it 'Shifing Battery') to my display, to see the battery level, and all I get is "N/A". It is reporting gear change status on the screen (which I could care less about), so I know the D-Fly is working. I opened a new ticket with Wahoo on this.
> 
> Lastly, ride sync'ing (to their cloud, and up to Strava) is still painful. The last two times I've used it it's taken over three hours to sync the ride. Yesterday, the unit auto-shut off on me twice before it finally sync'd when I powered it up after the last power on. I think this is a bluetooth issue, but I'm not sure if it's the unit itself or the phone (which is new - Android 6.01 Marshmallow). I think after today's ride, I'm going to leave bluetooth off and bring it home, and see if it will sync quicker over WiFi.
> 
> At least with this sync issue, there is a workaround getting uploads to Strava. I can always go old-school and plug it into the computer and download the .fit file and Import it manually.


Interesting about the battery change. My sensors are brand new, so I would hate to think that's the problem.

The issue I am having appears to be that the ELEMNT is assigning the speed sensor to both BTLE and ANT+ protocols despite my only selecting the latter. An upgrade to the Wahoo Speed firmware did not solve the problem either.


----------



## Migen21

If the sensors shipped with the battery installed, then it's very likely they were depleted during shipping. I rode with a brand new Wahoo Speed sensor on my last ride (swapped out the Garmin Speed), and it worked flawlessly as well. I did replace the battery that it shipped with though.

@Floralagator, I use Wahoo RPM sensors on my trainer bike, and the bikes that don't have a PM based RPM. I have never noticed an issue with slowness, but I also don't pay super close attention to it. I just look at the averages at the end of the ride, and in some cases I might look at my cadence over a particular segment, but I'm not hyper aware of it during a ride.


----------



## Migen21

Yesterdays ride was similar to the previous. Sensors worked well.

Unfortunately, the app went wacky towards the end of the ride and totally killed my phone battery. About 10 miles from the end the phone battery was at 60%. By the time I got home, it as at about 10%. I plugged it into the charger, and went about my business, hoping it would sync the ride and the battery would charge. I checked on it a while later, and the phone was dead (off). 

I powered it back on and checked the battery usage stats, and the ELEMNT app had consumed 85% of the battery since the last change (and most of it over a period of about 45 minutes). The phone was physically warm to the touch (not hot mind you - i don't think it was in any danger of melting or catching on fire). 

Interesting note here. When I rebooted the phone, the ELEMNT app automatically re-started, and continued to consume a LOT of battery until I issued a Force Stop. Once I did that, everything seemed to return to normal.

It seems there are some fairly significant issues with the Android version of the app. Between the Bluetooth <--> ELEMENT connection occasionally failing, the horrendous ride sync problems, and now this CPU usage issue, I'm a little concerned. 

I was also told by customer service that the Di2 battery status not being displayed is a known issue and should be addressed in a future patch. I was told that there is a workaround to go into the main menu on the ELEMNT and select the Di2 sensor, and tap the "More" button. Theoretically the battery state should show up here. I don't have the unit here with me to test this, but I've looked in that menu and don't recall seeing battery status there. I'll check on this later when I have a chance.


I'm curious if anyone is using the iPhone app for the ELEMNT and what their experiences are. Particularly with the ride sync issues. Wahoo seems to be implying this is an inherent problem with bluetooth, and backwards compatibility, but I didn't have these issues on my older LG G3, and I'm curious if iPhone users are having issues.

I'm off the bike for a couple of days (240 miles over the last four days - legs need some rest).


----------



## Wetworks

Migen, I haven't seen an appreciable problem with battery usage on my iPhone. From what I can tell, it's in line with other similar background apps. Over the past 24 hours I went for one ride consisting of 9 miles, where the Wahoo app consumed 3%. The last 5 days, which included a 52 mile ride, it has consumed 7%. 

I've not experienced any issues syncing my rides to Strava or RWGPS.


----------



## Migen21

Interesting.. What phone?


----------



## HyperSprite

*Supplied mounts:*
The road bar mount works great, weighs nothing, not a bad option.

Zip tie mount, others, including DC Rainmaker are not a fan of the zip ties, I like them, they make it a viable mount for hard mountain biking.

TT mount. slick carbon aero extensions and slick internal mating surface make this hard to tighten down. I ended up adhering a tiny piece of skateboard grip tape on the extension, so the mount had something to grip to. Otherwise, it is fine. 

*Other mounts:*
K-edge, talked to them at Sea Otter, they only had one blue disc and I bought it to retrofit my XL out front mount. They did say they were not comfortable and have not tested the the older XL mount with the Elemnt and something attached to the GoPro adapter. They recommend buying the new one if you are attaching things.

Barfly, I did not talk to them but they also have Elemnt mounts now. I don't know anything more than that though.

I wish the Elemnt had a tether, I would hate to see it fly off.

*Serendipitous Mapping:*
Went to Henry Coe, turned it on with no connection to the internet and it had all of the trail maps as long as I stayed at the same zoom level. My buddy and I got off on a rarely used (Stava only had 10 people ever riding it) trail that got so overgrown, without the map, we would probably have gotten completely lost. At one point there was so much overgrowth, even with the map it took us a good fifteen minutes to find it again (my scrapes from manzanita branches, sunburn and poison oak are still healing two weeks later).
Still have not tried following a pre-defined route.

*Sync:*
After the ride, if it is syncing but just kind of sitting there at 1/3rd complete or the app can't find the Elemnt, I reboot my phone and then the Elemnt seems to skip the sync to the phone and just use Wifi directly rather quickly.

*Screen Readability:*
Still light years better than the 510.Sunlight to shade and back again with polarized and non-polarized sunglasses on, no problem.

*Stages PM for Power and Cadence* (MTB bike, I've only tired it once with the Elemnt):
Cadence spikes, up to 245rpm (my best is 140...), drop outs and freezing (says I'm doing 80rpm but I am coasting). 
Power also did some odd things, shows a super smooth roll off from 1 second to three minutes on what looks like 10% down hill starting at 1100 watts ending at 600 watts. I've been training, and I had a really strong day but my previous all time 3 min high was 375 watts, so I find these results a little hard to believe. 
Note: I've stayed up on the Stages firmware and any time I go to Henry Coe, it does something dumb, like it is the Bermuda triangle of technology for mountain biking for me.

*Side LED's:*
HR has no use to me, it is not even on my main screen so I certainly don't need any lights telling me I am working hard, it's not like I am going to slow down or stop based on that. That leaves Power, which is based on ride average. This has to be the most useless status I can imagine. For example (and I am simplifying for clarity), say your ride is hilly, half the time you spend putting out 300 watts climbing, the other half you spend coasting down hill, your average is 150 watts. What use is that as the center of a graph. They already collected my FTP in the app, how hard would it be just to implement the FTP as the center and each light above and below 10% of that. No extra interface needed. Easy enough to extend that by letting people set what the % is for each segment as a customization. That would let people do some great things with those LEDs when working on bike splits etc. I am hopeful this will be addressed, for now these are just blinking lights.

*Bottom line:*
I still like this far better than the Garmin 510 and have high hopes things will get better as Wahoo works through the issues.


----------



## Wetworks

Migen21 said:


> Interesting.. What phone?


iPhone 5s with the latest iOS.


----------



## Migen21

I checked on the Di2 Battery Status, and that data does indeed show on the device in the D-Fly sensor menu. The field is actually not there (not just showing zero or no value its *not there*) if D-Fly is not connected.

ELEMNT Main Menu -> D-Fly Sensor -> More










Needless to say, my Di2 is on the charger as we speak. 

And for you Di2 naysayers out there, I got about 2500 miles out of this charge (and still at 20%)


----------



## Migen21

I haven't updated this thread in a while. 

I've been using the ELEMNT fairly extensively, and have been having more issues with ride data sync and some sensor drops, particularly my Wahoo TICKR, but other bluetooth devices as well (Stages PM, Wahoo Speed and RPM). My ANT sensors don't seem to be affected, but I don't use them as much (mostly just to test), so it's hard to say if they actually work better.

I've also been experiencing some lag/slowness in the UI that seems to get worse the longer the ride goes (again, small sample size).

I've been having a pretty open dialog with Wahoo support about these issues, and they assured me fixes were coming for all of the issues I've been experiencing.

Well, today might be the day.

I haven't updated yet, but according to their support site, there are new versions of both IOS and Android companion apps, as well as new firmware for the head unit itself.

ELEMNT Software Updates â€“ Wahoo Fitness Support



Wahoo Support Software Udpates Page said:


> *ELEMNT WF38-420 / IOS 1.2.4 (60) / ANDROID 1.2.0.12 - 4TH MAY 2016*
> 
> Focusing on improving the ELEMNT’s mapping, workout recording, syncing and sharing, the ELEMNT WF38-420 (and companion app) release includes the following core updates:
> 
> 
> 
> [*=left]FIT on the Fly (New & improved method for transferring ride data to the app/cloud) Allows for exceptionally faster and more reliable data syncing.
> [*=left]Map Management - Add/remove world maps to the ELEMNT’s built-in memory.
> [*=left]Map Rotation - Allowing riders to orient the map according to the direction they are currently traveling as well as the current North-facing setting, users can now toggle between the two via the ELEMNT companion app.
> [*=left]Map Style Improvements - The map page will now keep trails/local roads displayed on the screen for an additional two zoom levels.
> [*=left]Improved Tracking - More data points will improve the accuracy of 'bread-crumb' navigation.
> To update to the current firmware, you’ll need to connect your ELEMNT to your home network and then navigate to the setup menu where you’ll press the 'System Info' option, followed by the 'Check' option that will appear when the current firmware version is highlighted.
> Full change log below:
> 
> *ELEMNT WF38-420*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> [*=left]Big improvements to sync speed and reliability.
> [*=left]Fixes missing/mismatched values between ELEMNT, the phone and 3rd Party sites
> [*=left]Always have access to the original FIT data on any device, any time.
> [*=left]Added all new history detail post workout with all your stats (automatically shown post workout)
> [*=left]Added option to always rotate the Map in your direction of travel
> [*=left]Maps: Keep roads, cycle paths, trails and footways around at higher zoom levels
> [*=left]Maps: Fixed rendering issues of bridges
> [*=left]Maps: Fixed rendering issues of some types of trails
> [*=left]Improved speed of UI updates of power data
> [*=left]Fixed issue with Routes not syncing from phone apps (via Wahoo Cloud)
> [*=left]Fixed several missing and incorrect localisations (let us know if you find any)
> [*=left]iOS notifications are not dismissed on ELEMNT when read on iPhone
> [*=left]Fixed issue with time format not matching users (phone) settings
> [*=left]Improved styling of menus
> [*=left]Improved formatting of data fields for consistency
> [*=left]Changed FIT file name format to follow industry standard
> [*=left]Fixed issue with Route taking a very long time to load
> [*=left]Improved support for TrainingPeaks login
> [*=left]Fixed a few crashes when navigating menus
> *IOS COMPANION APP 1.2.4 (60)*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> [*=left]Added auto-upload support from the phone
> [*=left]Much improved sync speed and reliability
> [*=left]Added ability to manage maps on ELEMNT (Add/Remove/Update)
> [*=left]Added FIT file export to all share sites and email
> [*=left]Added elevation chart to history detail view
> [*=left]Added charging reminding for ELEMNT
> [*=left]Added notifications for new ELEMNT software updates
> [*=left]Improved share site UI
> [*=left]Fixes for missing/mismatched values between ELEMNT/Phone
> [*=left]Fixed support for re-ordering/deleting custom pages
> [*=left]Fixed issues with 3rd party site credentials not being synced with ELEMNT
> [*=left]Fixed support for syncing Routes when using Facebook sign in
> [*=left]Fixed updating Live Tracking when finishing workout
> [*=left]Added iOS low storage warning
> [*=left]Fixed several pesky user reported crashes
> *ANDROID COMPANION APP 1.2.0.12*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> [*=left]Much improved sync speed and reliability
> [*=left]Fixes for missing/mismatched values between ELEMNT/Phone
> [*=left]Added auto-upload support from the phone
> [*=left]Added support for setting power meter crank length
> [*=left]Added ability to manage maps on ELEMNT (Add/Remove/Update)
> [*=left]Fixed a crash when uploading to Training Peaks
> [*=left]Improved localizations
> [*=left]General stability and UI improvements



I'll update the unit and my apps (I'm playing with both android and IOS versions) and report back after I have a few rides.


----------



## HyperSprite

I did the update yesterday and here is my experience with that: 
Update App on Android Nexus 6P
Open App, it crashes (try several more times, same result)
Restart Phone, Open App, it crashes (try several more times, same result)
Uninstall App/Reboot Phone/Reinstall App
Have to run setup on phone again, as soon as I enter my user name it starts downloading all of my rides from the device to my phone. 
Plug phone into wall, let this go on for 5 hours, keeping both awake so I can watch the progress, it takes about an hour per ride.
Plug device into computer and remove all existing rides from device.
Restart Element and kill App and restart, continues to sync.
Do factory reset on Elemnt. 
Finally lets me enter the WiFi password and complete App setup.
Re-setup custom screens.
Turn off Auto Pause.
Re-add all sensors.

Did a local group ride where cell coverage is only somewhat spotty, 27 miles/2250ft/1:45 time (so not exactly an endurance test as far as phone or device batteries go), everything seemed to work properly and it uploaded the ride immediately on completion using cell network (no wifi available).


----------



## Migen21

I installed the update last night on both phones (iPhone 5S and LG-G5). Both went smoothly. The unit was paired to the iPhone when I did the update, and other than a few minor issues getting connected to WiFi, the update installation went smoothly.

After updating, I decided to switch back to the G5 and permanently retire the iPhone (again). The re-pairing went well, and all of the sensors were still working fine.

I had my first ride this morning, and the ride went very well. I had one HR dropout from my TICKR. It dropped for about 2 min, but reconnected before it annoyed me enough to stop and fix it. I really hope they work out these bluetooth dropouts. This is really starting to be frustrating. And for me, HR is really the only stat I care about in real time ( I monitor my zones actively for various reasons). 

After the ride, it auto-updated Strava for me, and that also worked well. 

I didn't really spend much time playing the new mapping stuff, as I don't use routes on my morning commute. I may try riding a planned route this weekend if I can find time to get a ride in around some other obligations. 

One thing I did notice, and it's obviously a single ride, so the sample size is small, but looking at the ride map in Strava, it seems to be much more accurate. The red line follows my exact route fairly closely. I can even see some swerves that involved avoiding some obstacles in the bike lane in a couple of places. There is much less 'drift' and there are no 'variations' (a gps plot that is obviously pretty far off of my actual track).


----------



## Migen21

Two more rides in the books. Both went flawlessly. The only minor issue was, in both cases, the TICKR was a little slow to connect. Once it connected everything stayed connected and worked fine.

Definitely more consistent after the last patch.

Sent from my LG-H830 using Tapatalk


----------



## HyperSprite

I had all kinds of chaos today. Thinking maybe changing recommendation from a *buy* to a *wait and see*. 

My Strava results seem pretty close except that my ride is missing many of the segments that show up in my friends ride. So maybe the GPS was having trouble tracking in the mountains. Speed, cadence distance and power seem all within range and similar to my friends. 


Here is a comparison between Strava and the Elemnt:
Strava 39.3 miles (matches friends), Elemnt 53.7 miles
Strava Max Speed 50.6mph (likely), Elemnt 213 mph, App, 66.9mph
Strava Avg Speed 16.4mph, Elemnt 19mph
Strava Climbing 4137, Elemnt 4136 (I'll call this one ok)

Numerous times on the ride it displayed NA for Power and Cadence although I can't find these dropouts in the Strava data.


----------



## Migen21

That does sound strange. My GPS tracks have been much tighter since the last patch/update.


----------



## SJB402

I have to admit, I have been reading this thread for awhile but never joined to post.....until now. It's interesting to read all the issues that may deter some from making the plunge to the Elemnt. I have had a completely different experience. First, my set up -

I previously used Cyclometer and used both together for a few weeks. Both export my data to Strava. I have an Iphone 6S. I have a Trek Domane with duotrap, a Felt FX2 with Powertap pedals and DI2 and a Trek FX hybrid with duotrap. I mostly use a Mio wristband for heart rate but also use a Wahoo Tickr chest strap and a Garmin Tri chest strap. All of these sensors are saved in my elemnt and no matter what bike or HR I use, I start and go and Elemnt has flawlessly been connected to whatever I am using for the entire ride, every ride. The only issue I ever had was with originally getting it to recognize the DI2 and one time the DI2 did not connect. The readings are dead on when I was using Cyclometer but while doing this I had the sensors to Cyclometer and using just GPS for speed and distance. Readings also coincide with my Garmin 930 watch. 

As far as rides syncing over Wifi, I just need to make sure I leave the elemnt on long enough to sync once I get in my garage (usually 3-5 minutes). After reading about the update a couple of days ago, I turned on the Elemnt last night to update it to the latest version just released and it was already updated with me doing nothing. 

As of this morning have 1193 miles on my Elemnt I have successfully downloaded several routes but have not yet used the mapping page or any routes.

Maybe I am just lucky with my experiences?


----------



## Migen21

Luck may be part of it.

I'm not familiar with all of those sensors, but if I'm not mistaken, all of them except the TICKR are ANT + only, correct?

The reason I ask is, from my experiences with the unit, it seems like the devices I have the most trouble with are Bluetooth (but not all of them). Specifically the TICKR and my Stages (Gen2) power meter, with the TICKR being by far the most problematic. I also have an array of other sensors, most of which are ANT + (2 bikes have D-Fly Di2 units, a couple of garmin magnetless speed and cadence sensors, and one each of the Wahoo magnetless speed and cadence sensors). Of these, the Wahoo's are the only units that are dual band ANT+ and Bluetooth. The RPM Cadence and RPM Speed seem to work fine, but I feel lucky if I finish a ride with the TICKR not dropping.

Yesterday on my morning commute, my TICKR lost connection twice. Both times it logged the last known value for the duration of the time it was not connected to the sensor. Then, on my afternoon commute (40 miles total), the TICKR stayed connected, but shortly after I started, my freshly refurbed Stages PM (Gen 2 175mm Ultegra 6800) lost connection, and nothing I could do to get it to reconnect. i stopped and tried deleting and re-pairing, etc... but it wouldn't re-connect. When I got home, I turned on my old Garmin 510 and it immediately detected my entire array of sensors across all of my bikes, inluding the Stages and the troublesome TICKR.

As frustrating as this has been, I have to say that Wahoo's support has been fantastic. I have a nearly daily exchange with their service techs, and have exchanged details of my rides and the issues with their developers. Over the couple of months I've been doing this, as issues have come up, the promised patches have been delivered and resolved most of the issues. I have been assured that these sensor dropouts are a known issue, and they should be addressing this in their next update. 

While I have had some trouble, sporadically, with the Element, generally I'm very happy with it, but more than that, I'm very impressed with their support. If you've ever tried to engage Garmin customer support, you know how frustrating that process can be, especially for bug related issues (i.e. not a damaged hardware unit). It can be weeks or months before they even respond to things related to connectivity issues. Every time I ponder going back to my Garmin until the Element's issues are resolved, I remind myself how frustrated I was with my Edge units, and even more frustrated I was with the Garmin support of those units.


----------



## SJB402

Good Point! 

The only one that is Ant+ only is the Garmin HRM Tri strap. The duo-trap speed and cadence sensors, the power tap pedals cadence and power, and the Mio Fuse HRM are all Ant+ and Bluetooth. However, I have no idea how they are connected to the Elemnt. 

I called support once on the DI2 battery display and they were great! Never used Garmin before this Tri watch and haven't had any issues but heard the horror stories.


----------



## HyperSprite

Migen21, I think the BT thing may be part or all of my issues. I realized that one thing I had changed in my setup was removing the Garmin Speed/Cadence sensor and adding a Wahoo Speed. Last night things worked great until I had an extended stop at the top of a mountain waiting for the rest of the group. After that, only my Tickr worked so I had N/A for Power/Cad/Speed until I got to the bottom of the hill and removed and re-added everything. The data was also missing from Strava so it was not just a display issue, it was really gone.

I am going to switch back to the garmin speed/cad and use my motorola ant+ hrm this weekend and see how that goes. I am doing 84 miles tomorrow and 124 on Saturday so I should have a good idea of how it's working (provided the battery can last for 124 miles, I have my doubts and am considering pocketing my wife's edge 500 as a backup). We'll see...

I have not interfaced with Wahoo support yet but maybe that is because of the poor experiences I have had with Garmin in the past making me hesitant, since those interactions always ended up being a huge waste of time (in the cases where they even responded at all).


----------



## HyperSprite

Ok, 2 days, 3 rides, 200 miles and I still can't draw a solid conclusion on the sensor dropping. All sensors are now Ant+, it never dropped the Motorola HRM or Garmin Wheel Speed sensor but dropped the Power2Max about 12 times (the power2max battery has 30 hours on it). 

*Sensor Dropouts:*
For the most part if I keep moving there is not an issue (only noticed 2 dropouts while moving). I also noticed that if I leave the NA sensor on the list and have it start doing a search, then cancel, the NA sensor comes back (at least that worked the two times I tried it).

Also, I had quite a few more dropouts with the phone connected over BT than when I turned the BT off on the phone. 

*Battery life:*
On Friday my ride was 90 miles, phone connected over BT, finished with 45% batt on Elemtn and 35% on phone. 
My second ride on Saturday (after recharging the Elemnt) was 80 miles, finished with 48% batt on Elemnt and 58% left on phone. So the Elemnt is getting better but the phone app battery consumption is still a bit high for my taste. 

*Routing: 
*Updating Strava routes with BT enabled on the phone seemed to cause some kind of conflict. After waiting 15 minutes for the routes to update, I turned BT off on the phone and it instantly said it was updating from Strava and downloaded my route.

Both of my routes were basic drop a pin at the start, drop a pin at the end, "use popular": "on", "minimize elevation":" "off", let Strava figure it out, nothing custom.

I used routes for both 90 and 80 mile rides and they worked flawlessly over many "new to me roads". The LEDs at the top flashing Red when off route and Green when back on route regardless of the screen I was currently looking at.

Also, with the route enabled, the elevation profile shows what is coming up so you can gauge your effort on unknown climbs. 

*Weather resistance:*
Well, it rained on me again for my 30 mile ride on Saturday, this was rain from all directions, where you lean your head down and a river flows off your helmet kind of rain and the Elemnt did just fine.


----------



## Migen21

Yea, I'm a bit befuddled with the sensor dropouts. I'm starting to think my issues were with a finicky TICKR. The only other sensor I've had more than one dropout on was the Stages PM. That one was odd, and frustrating. I had just got it back from being serviced by Stages, paired it up and went for a ride. It worked great for about 10 miles. Then I noticed my RPM field said "N/A". I rode until it was time for my first food break. While I was stopped I tried to get it to reconnect. I tried everything (more than once).. Removed the battery, un-paired and re-paired.. it wouldn't recognize it. I finally gave up. Later that evening, at home, after the ride had ended and been uploaded to Strava, I tried again to re-pair the stages with no luck. I even power cycled the ELEMNT and still no joy. Nothing I did worked. I know the Stages isn't the problem because I had an old Garmin 510 in my pocket that I had paired my sensors to as a test. It was also accessible from the Stages app (I was able to recalibrate, etc...). Oddly, the next morning I turned on the Elemnt and it paired right up to the PM this time. Very odd... On the other hand, for the last half-dozen or so rides, everything else has worked flawlessly. I shelved my old TICKR and am using a newer one (one that I had only used indoors on the trainer). Speed RPM and Speed Cadence, and TICKR have all been working flawlessly. I also tested an older Garmin HRM (ANT only) and it worked fine as well. 

I updated my support case with the Stages issue on Friday. We'll see what they have to say. To their credit, they have been very responsive. 

I'm really hoping the next update fixes some of this stuff.

Edit to add: I also noticed after my last ride that I had a small scratch in my screen. It's only noticeable at certain angles, and I don't see it when it's mounted on my bike. I am pretty hard on it. It gets tossed around in my bike bag, jersey pockets, car floorboard on occasion, mingling with keys, bike tools, etc... Generally speaking, the durability seems excellent, and the screen is outstanding. I mounted my old Garmin 510 next to it for a ride, and it's shocking how much easier the Element is to read. The 510 is far too reflective, and there isn't enough contrast between the text and the background. The Element, even with the light off, is very easy to read in almost any lighting condition.


----------



## Migen21

Two more rides this weekend. No sensor dropouts to report.

Both rides about 30 miles. Both in rainy conditions. Everything worked well.


----------



## Migen21

Well, this is disheartening, and somewhat encouraging at the same time ..

I thought I had resolved my issues by replacing my TICKR. The last two rides over the weekend worked flawlessly.

However, today has been a completely different experience.

I had two rides today (commutes). The bike had a Gen2 Stages for power and cadence and and an RPM Speed for wheel speed. I was also wearing a the new TICKR. All of the batteries were full/green (registering 3.0v on a coin cell battery checker - one of the best $6 I ever spent  ). Everything is on the latest firmware available as of the last check I made (Saturday - see below).

On the ride in this morning, the TICKR dropped out on two different occasions. Both times I was able to get it to reconnect by 'forgetting' the sensor and re-pairing (sadly, I'm getting good at doing this riding down the MUT). The stages seemed to work as well. The speed sensor, I'm not 100% sure about. Since the head unit registers speed by the GPS as well. As I'm riding, I don't have any way of knowing if the speed it's displaying is from the GPS or from the Wheel Speed Sensor. Today however, I happened to look down and noticed my speed at 0 MPH. The problem is, I was probably going about 16MPH. It obviously wasn't getting this speed reading from the GPS, as I have auto-pause enabled. If the GPS were not registering movement the unit would have paused. My assumption is that the wheel speed sensor was either disconnected, or just not transmitting data to the unit. The speed reading came back after a few seconds, although again, I have no way of knowing if the speed being displayed is GPS based or sensor based. 

The ride home was even worse. When I powered the unit up, all of the sensors connected except the Stages. I puttered around the office parking lot for about 10 minutes to see if it would come to life, but no joy. The Stages App worked fine, so I know it's not the PM. I did the forget/re-pair thing the Stages and even though it re-paired immediately, it still showed no data. After deleting and re-pairing again, I decided to rename the sensor on the phone app, and after doing that it immediately started displaying data and worked fine for the rest of the ride.

Now, the wheel speed sensor is another story. About 5 miles into my ride, I noticed the 0 MPH thing again. I waited a minute, expecting it to reconnect on it's own like before. And it did.. however, apparently, something was wonky. The speed on the unit was displaying 225 MPH (wooo! finally an error in my favor!!). Anyway, I did the 'forget/re-pair' thing, and it started working normally, except the occasional 0 MPH thing, which seemed to resolve on it's own (again, I'm assuming - i could have been reverting to GPS speed). 

When I got home and ended the ride, the speed and distance data were way off (way too high). The commute is just over 16 miles, and I usually average between 15 and 16 MPH for this ride. Today, the distance registered as 23.6 miles, with an average speed of 22.6 and a max speed of 224.6 MPH. 

I haven't uploaded this to Strava yet. I have a dummy strava account I'm going to upload it to to check it out before I post it to my real account. I don't want to get flagged for going 225mph down the 520 trail (30mph is fast enough on that downhill). 

Here is the kicker. When I got home, I started typing out an email update to the support rep I've been working with, when I decided I'd double check to make sure there wasn't a firmware update that might deal with these odd behaviors.

Sure enough, they posted ELEMNT Firmware WF38-435 some time yesterday afternoon, and also updated the iPhone App (I use android, so this didn't affect me). I also opened up the Wahoo Utility app and checked for sensor firmware, and sure enough, there was a firmware update for my RPM Speed sensor as well.

ELEMNT Software Updates ? Wahoo Fitness Support

I have updated everything as of 10 minutes ago, but of course I have no idea if this will help with this odd sensor behavior I've been experiencing. I surely hope so, as it's starting to get frustrating. I *really* want this thing to work so I can permanently retire my Garmin (i.e. smash it into a brick wall as hard as I can, over and over and over).

Sadly, I won't be riding for a couple of days (schedule rest), so it might be the weekend before I have another test.

Edit: When I uploaded the ride to Strava, I fully expected it to give me some data errors, but apparently Strava cleaned up/normalized the speed spikes, as the ride data in Strava looks fairly normal.


----------



## HyperSprite

Migen21, thanks for the info, I am updating now. 

I may have a ride tomorrow night but it has few stops and that is typically when I have my sensors drop, so I am not sure if I would have any problems anyway. I should know by the weekend though.

On a side note, my phone battery has not been lasting on non-riding days and have been watching that (for instance a week ago, the Facebook app was using more power that Screen for the day and I had not even opened the app, they have since fixed that). Anyway, today, while never even opening the Elemnt app, it used 4% / 30min for cell communications. So I wonder what it is doing. I killed and reported the app. 

I too really want this thing to work, I have some important events coming up and that is when my 510 typically fails so I really don't want to dust it off at crunch time.


----------



## The Human G-Nome

Thought I would chime in...

I have owned the ELEMNT since the first day it was released. At first, like many others, I loved it overall, but I experienced a lot of headaches. Syncing issues, corrupted internal drive, lost 2 rides completely. I was pissed. However, eventually, all my issues disappeared after the last two updates. 

In fact, the ELEMNT is just spot on perfect for me right now. The uploads are seamless and lighting fast. I can't even sit down in my chair after a ride, and I already receive a Strava notification telling me my ride is ready. It's crazy fast. The battery life is also terrific. No drain on my unit or my phone.

As for the actual riding, it is such a huge leap forward from my prior Garmin units. This thing just functions better in so many different ways. Highly recommend the ELEMNT now after originally being worried that maybe I had made a mistake.


----------



## Wetworks

I'll echo what the previous poster said; the latest update seems to have squashed the majority of the issues many riders were experiencing. With that, the ELEMNT is now a fantastic bike computer, very happy with my decision to go with it as my first.


----------



## HyperSprite

Well, I finally got outside last night and I just wish I could go back to 2 updates ago when my only real issue was battery life and upload speeds. Oh the good old days.

On the main climb it read 0.1 for mph, my actual was 7.0 mph. This stayed this way till I got over the top, then it went back to normal. I was using the Garmin hub type speed sensor.

On the last climb, just as I jump out of the saddle for the hairpin, it reads NA for power and cadence. As I crested the top, it went back to normal. Even worse, when I looked at it on Strava later, it was recording power and cadence for the whole segment but in the last minute of the climb it recorded 375 watts (totally flat) and a cadence of 92 (also totally flat). So it's like it got stuck and just kept wrote the same data until it unstuck. (see pic)

So frustrating and distracting.

Might start riding with the wife's 500 in my pocket just to know I'm getting good data that wont mess up my power curve.


----------



## Migen21

My luck has gone the opposite direction. Last five or six rides, two of which were 5hrs plus have been flawless. 

My spiky speed sensor issues were solved by putting the latest firmware on the speed sensor itself (per supports suggestion).

I also had a faulty TICKR (the one that went through the laundry). Replacing that solved my HRM issues.

The last ELEMNT firmware seems to have solved the sync issues and everything else is working fine.

Edit to add:
The stages PM is still slow to connect/reconnect at times. The last half dozen rides have worked fine. It's just slow to connect, and if it does disconnect for some reason (a pause, etc...) the re-connect isn't as fast as some of the Wahoo stuff I'm using. Wahoo support hasn't said much about this, but I suspect they are probably still working with Stages to resolve that issue.


----------



## Migen21

Migen21 said:


> And....
> 
> K-Edge has mounts (that aren't blue) and inserts for the ELEMNT to replace the ones on your existing K-Edge garmin mounts.
> 
> https://www.acecosportgroup.com/k-edge-computer-mounts/wahoo-elemnt-mounts.html


I'm quoting my own previous post from this thread. It seems that K-Edge is no longer selling the Wahoo specific 'pucks' as separate item. It's no that they our out of stock... The item is no longer listed on their website. 

I bought 4 or 5 of them when they were first listed so I have a spare or two. 

This feels like a money grab to me. Why sell a $5 puck to convert your old Garmin mount when are the only game in town to sell new $50 mount?

Time for you 3D printer folks to get to work here!


----------



## Migen21

Weird,

The "puck" is still available, but it doesn't show up on the Wahoo Elemnt page like it did before.

https://k-edge.com/shop/computer-mounts/wahoo-elemnt-mounts/replacement-wahoo-insert-kit/


----------



## HyperSprite

Migen21, talked with K-edge about the puck at Sea Otter. They would rather not sell them because they feel that having an Elemnt and a GoPro may be too heavy for the older mount arm, that the new mount is much stronger. I don't know if I buy that explanation. It may just be to sell more stuff like you said. Not sure. 


Meanwhile... 
I went 60mph yesterday according to my Elemnt (note the flat line and then huge spike in the screen shot). Also having a serious problem following the road. Opened a support case last night with Wahoo, hopefully they can help. Only lost the PM 3 times in 100 miles.


----------



## Migen21

Are you using a speed sensor? I was getting those spikes too. The last speed sensor firmware update resolved those.

If it's not the speed sensor, you might have been in an area with poor GPS reception (heavily wooded?) I live in the pacific northwest, and this time of year when the trees are in full foliage, there are quite a few places where the track gets out of whack. 

I rode the 7 Hills century with mine today. For the purposes of the ride it worked flawlessly again. I did have some trouble syncing the ride to the phone afterewards. The data on the phone was corrupt (it showed the full distance, but it had me stopping at about mile 88 on the map - odd). When I got home I manually uploaded the .fit file to Strava and all is good. 

I'm going to ask the Support folks about that as well.

My day today was 9+ hours on the bike (7+ hours of riding time). At one of the rest stops about halfway through, the battery was at about 65%. Just to be safe I plugged in an external battery and let it charge while I fed and watered myself (what am I, a horse?). That put it back up to almost 80% (it charges really fast). I didn't touch it again until I finished the ride, and it was still at 61%. It probably would have been fine if I hadn't topped it off at the rest stop, but I wanted to play it safe (my first Century since getting hit by a car last June.... didn't want to take a chance on losing the data).


----------



## HyperSprite

I am using a Garmin hub speed sensor right now. The flat line before the spike is the giveaway that the unit freezing momentarily and then twitching as it recovers. It is probably doing this throughout the ride, I just happened to notice it because of the super high spike in speed. 

There was tree cover but the interesting thing is, it seems like the poor reception is related to the spike. Like it locks up trying to get satellite and then spikes the speed on recovery.


This ride was all a century but I was nursing a friend around so we were out a total of 9 hours and 7:30 of moving time and the battery did fine. I think I came back with 42%, that seems more than acceptable in my book. 

I've had no problem with uploads lately but I've been doing them differently. Before I stop my ride I turn off BT and enable the hotspot on my phone. Then stop the ride and the Elemnt uploads instantly using wifi to Strava. Then I turn off the hotspot and enable BT and it syncs the ride to the app whenever (I don't really care at that point because I don't use the app to look at my rides).


----------



## HyperSprite

Basically BT is still broken, at least that is what support told me:

================================
May 31, 3:59 PM
I am sorry you are having this issue with your sensors dropping from the ELEMNT. This issue is the cause of the spikes in speed as well as the power data dropping to 0. We have detected a firmware bug in the radio chip that is causing all sensors to occasionally disconnect within a couple of seconds of each other and then reconnect. The frequency is dependent primarily on the number of BT devices in use. *With only ANT+ sensors and the phone, it generally only occurs once every few hours of riding*. If multiple BT sensors are in use it can occur as often as 3 times per hour. We're working with our radio chip supplier to get a software update to fix this issue. We have helped them recreate the scenario that causes the dropped sensors in their labs and they are now able to reproduce it reliably. They are analyzing the root cause and hope to provide a fix in the form of a firmware patch for the radio chip that we can publish as an update soon. They are working around the clock and providing detailed daily progress reports, but cannot give us a firm date on when it will be fixed. We are hopeful it will be soon. Thank you for your continued patience as we search for a fix.

===============================


----------



## Migen21

Thanks for that post. I look forward to getting they update.

Awesome support by Wahoo on this.


----------



## HyperSprite

Ok, so this time no BT devices and put my phone in Airplane mode. I only saw one time where the PM and Speed sensors went NA but they came back quickly and it was after a stop, so that _may_ be expected. 

With the above setup, Elemnt was on for nine and a half hours and still had 20% left. 

On the GPS front, compared to my Garmin Edge 510, it does not seem as good. Mind you, I often have trees and whatnot where I ride but I've always had trees and whatnot where I ride and cycling computer makers should probably expect people are going to want to ride where there are trees. 

I set it to follow a course and the On/Off warnings were ridiculous. At times it seemed nearly constant (red LEDs-green LE-red LED-gre-re-green LEDs). I've done the same route with the 510 and the dropouts are not nearly as often. Here is a longer example of what it looks like. This particular pic is on a climb so it's not like I'm going at high speed or anything (like in my last pic). I am really hoping they have some tuning to do and it's not a hardware limitation.


----------



## Migen21

A new device firmware update was posted today.

I haven't thoroughly reviewed the release notes, but everything has been working fairly well. So much so that I'm a little hesitant to update for fear of breaking something. =)

I guess the turn-by-turn and route following improvements make it worth the risk. 

Edit: Update installed - I'll test it on my commute home tonight.

Also, be sure to update your companion app through the appropriate app store to take advantage of all of the new features.

ELEMNT Software Updates ? Wahoo Fitness Support



Wahoo Support Page said:


> *ELEMNT WF42-628 - 15TH JUNE 2016*
> 
> Routes/Maps
> 
> 
> 
> [*=left]Added support for Turn by Turn navigation (RideWithGPS only)
> [*=left]Improvements to Route following especially out and back routes
> [*=left]Added support for up to 6 data fields on map workout page
> [*=left]After selecting a route it now goes straight back to the map view
> [*=left]Added a new "Selected" route view with full cue sheet if available
> [*=left]Added ability to sort routes by date, proximity and starred
> [*=left]Fixed issue of deleted routes not clearing from ELEMNT
> Workout
> 
> 
> 
> [*=left]Added notification if moving but have not started a workout
> [*=left]Added support powering off your ELEMNT mid-workout
> [*=left]Added option to delete workout if under time/distance thresholds
> [*=left]Scroll through workout history on ELEMNT
> Configuration
> 
> 
> 
> [*=left]Added support for connecting to hidden Wifi networks (using SSID/password)
> [*=left]Added support for manually switching between known Wifi networks with companion app
> [*=left]Added support for showing SSIDs longer than 16 characters
> [*=left]Added low storage warning
> Sensor Support
> 
> 
> 
> [*=left]Added support for configuring gear ratios (from companion app)
> [*=left]Improved support for PowerTap P1 and Polar Look power meters
> [*=left]Added support for PowerCal
> [*=left]Fixed issue of Normalized Power spikes
> [*=left]Added clock drift compensation for sensor device clocks
> [*=left]Fixed issue with sensor info in FIT file all having manufacturer set to Wahoo
> [*=left]Added support for a single front gear (Shifting profile)
> UI/UX Tweaks
> 
> 
> 
> [*=left]Optimized power calibration by skipping "prepare" page
> [*=left]Fixed menu selection not visible when backing out of menus
> [*=left]Fixed issue with P1 battery status showing incorrect labels
> [*=left]Remove battery status for KICKR devices
> [*=left]Added firmware information to sensor info page
> [*=left]Fixed issue with battery information not updating if status page is open
> *I am sure I must have missed *something
> 
> 
> 
> [*=left]Other bug fixes and enhancements ;-)
> 
> *IOS 1.3.0 (74) - 15TH JUNE 2016*
> 
> Make sure you update your ELEMNT, most of the goodness comes from the update above!
> 
> 
> 
> [*=left]New - Add up to 6 fields on the map page.
> [*=left]New - You can now have mixed units. e.g distance miles, temp deg C, elevation in metres.
> [*=left]New - You can now update your firmware for Wahoo sensors within companion app.
> [*=left]New - Configure Electronic gears.
> [*=left]New - You can now delete routes.
> [*=left]New - Upload to Dropbox (from companion only).
> [*=left]New - Can now connect to a hidden WiFi network.
> [*=left]New - Delete workouts - workouts deleted on companion or ELEMNT are deleted everywhere.
> [*=left]Fixed - Crash on customize pages.
> [*=left]Fixed - Can now set crank length & wheel size for sensors.
> [*=left]Fixed - Numerous other bug fixes.


----------



## HyperSprite

I got an update to the Android App this morning. Have not updated the Elemnt yet but will do so tonight. After the previous update I still had issues with the PM dropping out and Wahoo support recommend deleting and re-adding the sensors. I've not tried it since though so I don't know if that works or not but I'm going to delete them all anyway after the update just to be sure. Crossings fingers...


----------



## Migen21

I suspect the reason they want you to delete and re-add the sensors is that they are going to set them to prefer ANT+ over Bluetooth, in order to save bluetooth bandwidth/resources for the phone/livetrack, and bluetooth only sensors.

That's just a theory, mind you. I'm basing this on the fact that I re-paired a couple of dual sensors this afternoon and noticed they all paired as ANT+. Could be coincidence.


----------



## Migen21

I used the updated device firmware on my way home last night. I was a bit underwhelmed, as I didn't see any new features (turn-by-turn, etc..), and I experienced at least one device dropout of my TICKR HRM.

However, this morning, when I looked at my phone, I noticed I had an app update pending for the companion app. Apparently either it didn't update yesterday, or I had gotten in too fast and it hadn't been fully published on the app market as of yesterday afternoon.

The most current firmware/app versions that I have today are:

Device Firmware: WF42-628
Andriod App Ver: 1.3.1.0 (610)

Here are the instructions for using Turn by Turn on the ELEMNT. It requires a (free) RideWithGPS account (Strava doesn't currently support Que info in their metadata, so those routes won't work). 

How do I use turn by turn on my ELEMNT? – Wahoo Fitness Support


----------



## Migen21

Well, sample size is small. First ride with the new software did not go well.

My Stages lost connection about 10 minutes into the ride and never reconnected. I got out my phone and checked the stages app, and the PM was working fine. 

Then, about halfway through, the TICKR HRM dropped out and never reconnected. What's weird is, the LEDs on the side were indicating I was in Z3, while the display was showing dashes(blank).

Hopefully tomorrow will be better.


----------



## Migen21

More dropouts this morning. It's worse than it has ever been for me.

I chatted with Support when I got to work. I was asked how many sensors I have paired that aren't in range.

I have five bikes and many sensors that are unique to them, so yes. I have a total of about 17 sensors paired (which includes the trainer, and that setup as well).

He suggested they are investigating a bug that related to having sensors paired that are out of range. He suggested, as a test, to remove all of my sensors, then just re-pair what I'm using for that ride,and see if that helps with the dropouts.

I'll try this for my evening ride tonight and report back.


----------



## Migen21

Another firmware update, but this one only contains a bug fix. 

I'm still having sensor dropouts. I noticed mine are all paired ANT+ (they are all dual ANT/BT). As far as I know there is no way to force them to bluetooth.

I suspect they are forcing them to ANT+ because of the Bluetooth Stack issues they apparently having (mentioned above).

My Stages PM will only stay connected via ANT for about 5 minutes before it drops out. Other sensors (TICKR/Wahoo SPEED/Wahoo CADENCE) drop out randomly (when connected via ANT+)

I'm pretty sure all of my sensors are good. At least they work when paired with the Strava app on my phone (via Bluetooth). 

I'm still waiting for a response on my ticket (5 days). Not good. 

HEre is the link to the patch notes for the bug fix.
ELEMNT Software Updates ? Wahoo Fitness Support



Wahoo Support said:


> ELEMNT WF42-629 - 23RD JUNE 2016
> 
> 
> [*=left]Fixed crash bug in workout recovery


----------



## HyperSprite

Migen21, try turning BT off on your phone for a ride. I know it is a crummy work around but it might help. Man I hope they get this sensor stuff worked out.

I've only ridden 3 times with the Elemnt since my last report (I've been on the trainer). While the three rides had no issues whatsoever, they are not representative of normal riding for me. 
1) I did not have my phone with me. 
2) My total stop time on each ride was 5 seconds or less. 
3) All took place with a clear 180 degree view of the sky.
4) I was racing the Rockwell Relay from Moab to St. George.

Something funny did happen though regarding the Elemnt, on my first leg I left my phone in the van because there is no cell coverage out there anyway. Every time I got near the van, the Elemnt would notify me of pairing. I turned off BT for my other two legs to save the annoyance.

My friends Garmin failed yet again on his final leg, drawing a straight line from Cedar City to Enterprise. He ordered an Elemnt on the drive home.


----------



## Migen21

I finally heard from Support.

They have a beta firmware for me to download and try to see if that resolved the problem.

I guess I could try turning off bluetooth, but to be honest, I'd rather turn off ANT+ on the Elemnt and force all of my sensors to use that. Even if it's just to test. 

I suspect, as someone mentioned earlier in this thread, that there are some issues with the Bluetooth Radio firmware they are using, and are forcing all new sensors to pair via ANT+. 

What's frustrating is, the last three or four rides, I've run the Strava app on my old iPhone 5S in parallel to the ELEMNT. All of my sensors paired via Bluetooth, and I never had a dropout on that device the entire time. 

This tells me my sensors are fine (at least using Bluetooth). Thus my desire to force pairing via Bluetooth. I've asked support about this several times, and they keep ignoring the question.

I won't be able to test this Beta firmware until Saturday (next scheduled ride). I'll report back with results.


----------



## HyperSprite

Yeah, according to my support case guy, it is the BT radio they are having issues with. 

He said this "We have detected a firmware bug in the radio chip that is causing all sensors to occasionally disconnect within a couple of seconds of each other and then reconnect. The frequency is dependent primarily on the number of BT devices in use. With only ANT+ sensors and the phone, it generally only occurs once every few hours of riding."

And based on a later update, they think they have fixed that.

I can't say for certain what my sensors were connected with on my last three rides but the speed and hr are both BT capable.


----------



## Migen21

I'm starting to think I may have a problematic unit.

When I opened my support case, they were suprised to know I was still having dropouts after the last update. They were re-assured by their vendor that connectivity issues should be much better.

However, now that they have offered me a beta firmware to test, I'm guessing they have identified further problems, and are still working on them. His exact words were 'this should dramatically improve connectivity'.. which I've heard several times now.

If this doesn't resolve it, I'm going to ask them to RMA the unit. I'm getting a little tired of testing this stuff for them...


----------



## Wetworks

Migen21 said:


> *I'm starting to think I may have a problematic unit.*
> 
> When I opened my support case, they were suprised to know I was still having dropouts after the last update. They were re-assured by their vendor that connectivity issues should be much better.
> 
> However, now that they have offered me a beta firmware to test, I'm guessing they have identified further problems, and are still working on them. His exact words were 'this should dramatically improve connectivity'.. which I've heard several times now.
> 
> If this doesn't resolve it, I'm going to ask them to RMA the unit. I'm getting a little tired of testing this stuff for them...


I am starting to think this is the case for you as well. The last two updates prior to the little bug fix released today has seen my E perform as I expected from the beginning. Truthfully, the first of those two were what really fixed it. I was experiencing all the problems you have described (wonderfully, I might add) in this thread, but I am now bug-free. 

Just another owner's perspective to help you in getting this fixed. Good luck.:thumbsup:


----------



## Migen21

Thanks for posting. The more people who post their experiences the better.

I'm a little reticent to keep posting my challenges, because I really think the Elemnt is a great device. I'm not sure my problems are typical, and I don't want people thinking they are crappy (unless of course they are).

One thing I will say, their support has been exemplary, especially when compared to Garmins (which is mostly non-existent). They haven't exactly solved all of my problems, but they continue to be very responsive and are willing to work with me through all of this.

I really hope this next firmware update fixes the ANT dropouts I'm having. If it doesn't, I'm just going be very direct about asking for an RMA.


----------



## HyperSprite

Well, I had my PM drop out again, it was the 4th or 5th stop on an 8 hour ride. All sensors connected with Ant+, phone in airplane mode. When I started pedaling, it did not come back. Had to delete and re-add it. Also, I have some power spike anomalies (1600 watts for 1~2 seconds with next closest and realistic readings at 950ish watts).


----------



## Migen21

On friday evening, I installed a 'beta' firmware I was provided by Support. 

This morning (Monday), I sent an update to them after my weekend of heavy riding. 

I rode a total of 180 miles over three "rides" in two days with this test firmware and here is what happened.

*Sensors were*:
Wahoo TICKR
Wahoo SPEED
Shimano Di2 -D-Fly
Stages Gen 2 Power Meter

No other sensors were configured. Before I started (per Support) I was asked to delete all existing pairings, then install the upgrade, then re-pair only the sensors I was using.

All of the sensors listed above were paired via ANT+ (still no way that I know of to force them to Bluetooth)

_*Over the course of the weekend I had exactly ZERO sensor dropouts*_. None. Everything worked flawlessly (with one minor exception - see below). I was a little concerned that battery life might be negatively impacted by the new firmware, as often in this stage of development, the engineers and trying to balance power consumption with connection reliability (I work in the mobile phone industry). That definitely isn't the case here. My battery life this weekend was as good or better than it's ever been. On Sunday, the total elapsed time for my longest ride was just over 9 hours with a little over 7 hours of moving time over 105 miles. The battery was still at over 30% at the end of this ride. Not too shabby.

The only minor exception to the perfection i experienced with this test firmware is that, on a few occasions, after a pause, the Power Meter did not immediately re-connect. This probably happend 10 times total (all other times it immediately reconnected). Of these 10 issues, in most cases, after a minute or two, it did reconnect, but once or twice I had to fiddle with it. The first time, after about 5 minutes of it not reconnecting, I stopped, deleted the device and and re-paired, after which it immediately re-connected.

Two or three other times it didn't immediately re-connect after a pause, I tried just pulling the Elemnt off the bars and held it down by my left leg for a few seconds, and it reconnected immediately. Again, this only happened a couple of times over the long weekend, and it was only a minor annoyance compared to what I had been experiencing.

My take away from this is that their engineers have a good handle on the radio issues, and official releases that fix this stuff are eminent. I'm confident that the Stages reconnect issue will also be solved, although it may take a little longer (due to having to work with a third party). 

After HyperSprites post, I looked over my power numbers and didn't see anything that looked out of the ordinary. There are a few big jumps in power, but I'm a big guy, and push a lot of power when starting out, or climbing short, steep hills, etc... It all looks pretty normal to me.

@HyperSprite, are you on the latest Stages firmware? If so, and the problems persist, you might give them a call. Their support is pretty good.

Edit: also, FYI there was an update to the iOS app today to version 1.3.1. 

ELEMNT Software Updates ? Wahoo Fitness Support


----------



## Migen21

Ray Maker posted a review and how-to for the turn-by-turn stuff that was added in the last patch.

It's definitely worth a read if this feature interests you.

Turn by Turn Navigation Rolls out to Wahoo ELEMNT | DC Rainmaker


----------



## HyperSprite

Yeah, I have the latest public firmware, deleted all sensors and only added them for the bike I was using, Tickr, Wahoo Speed and Power2Max PM right before the ride and at just after 5 hours, the Power stopped working. I did a rescan for sensors and it showed connectivity but did not show anything on the display. 

To make matters worse, my data shows from the time when it stopped to the end of the ride I have a solid line at 378 watts. That is 9 minutes at 398 watts (I wish), with the spike from last week and this, my yearly power curve is now totally screwed for comparison sake.


----------



## Migen21

Yea, I experienced similar issues with all of my sensors when they drop out (when I was still having that problem). The unit continues to write the last value it received until it reconnects. It doesn't just do it with power. Speed, HR, etc.. all will so something similar when they lose connection. 

I complained about this to Wahoo via a support ticket (I'd much rather it either record a zero value, or better yet, not record anything at all, than have it put made-up numbers in those fields when it loses connections.

FWIW, you can manually edit your .fit file and remove your power data fields (it's a huge pain unless you have some kind of macro capable editor). It might be worth attaching your .fit file to your support ticket and ask THEM to remove your power data fields. 

As far as my status, everything has been working great. I haven't been ridign bikes with PM's the last few days and as such, I've no zero dropouts over about 200 miles over the last three days. I'm really happy with the current situation, other than the power meter thing. 

The support person working my ticket said he has passed my information on to their developers. I suggest you do the same.


----------



## HyperSprite

Wahoo closed my ticket on the 13th saying they were in the final stages of testing but there has been no update thus far. 

Today, the power meter stayed connected (stages, fully updated firmware) but it is still recording bad data. I have noticed on numerous occasions that I will stop pedaling and it will continue to read the cadence and watts for up to 4 seconds while I cost. I also recorded my best all time wattage 1800+ for one second. At the same time it was guessing at my power prowess, it recorded this lovely speed line :|


----------



## Migen21

Yea, they closed all of my tickets too. Although mine has been working great with the Beta firmware they gave me. I did have to roll my Element mount down on the bars just a tiny bit, as I was still having a little bit of trouble getting it to connect to the PM. Rolling the mount down a tad improved the line of sight between the ELEMNT and the crank based PM, and I've had no problems since.

Hopefully a new update based on this beta I'm using will be released soon and resolve your issues.


----------



## Migen21

WAHOO! New Updates for the Elemnt! 

ELEMNT Software Updates ? Wahoo Fitness Support

Strava Live Segments, improved ANT+ connectivity management, and lots of other goodies.



WahooElementUpdate said:


> ELEMNT WF42-870 - 3RD AUGUST 2016*STRAVA Live Segments!*
> ELEMNT is now fully integrated with Strava Live Segments to give you accurate progress status and the Final Push to beat your goals
> - Starred segments on your Strava account wirelessly upload to ELEMNT
> - Notifications prior to a segment start so you don't miss a second
> - See your status on the segment vs. the Leader, your PR, and your friends as the segment progresses
> - ELEMNT allows you to ride Routes & Strava Live Segments simultaneously
> - Get a Final Push when you are close to hitting a goal so you never miss an opportunity to be your very best.
> 
> Other Great additions
> - Added LED/Buzzer to START workout reminding
> - Added Turn by Turn buzzer and increased LED brightness
> - Added support for PINNED routes from RideWithGPS
> - Added support for TCX Routes
> - Added Sporttracks.mobi uploads
> - Added background recovery to repair FIT files
> - Added recovery % progress and cancel button (sends to background)
> - Improved ANT+ Connection management
> - Fixed: Improved auto-upload logic for better performance
> - Fixed: Wifi not turning off after uploads finished
> - Fixed: Improved support for roundabouts in turn by turn.
> - Fixed: Added confirmation before adding data fields when pairing new sensor
> - Fixed: Duplicate power fields when using with KICKR
> - Fixed issue with gaps in temperature data.
> 
> *iOS 1.4.0*
> - All new History detail, graphs and data
> - Added support for showing Strava Segment results
> - Added support for importing TCX Routes
> - Fixed battery drain issues
> 
> *Android 1.4.0*
> - All new History detail, graphs and data
> - Added support for showing Strava Segment results
> 
> - Added support for importing TCX Routes


----------



## Migen21

I guess I can also give an experience update. I've been using the beta version of this update (without the live segments) for a month or so,and it's been working pretty much flawlessly.

Sensor connectivity is much improved. I was still occasionally have some dropout issues with the Stages PM, but I think that is just a line-of-sight issue between the Elemnt and the sensor. I rolled the Elemnt back on the bars a tiny bit, so there is a clear line of sight between the back of the unit and the PM, and it rarely if ever drops out now.

Battery life is still awesome, and I've had no crashes, hangs, etc. Basically it's functioning like a handlebar mounted GPS head unit should function, and it's doing it reliably and consistently. I'm finally at a place with it that I don't feel like I need to run a backup ride tracker for my important rides, like I used to have to do with my Garmins (i lost too many rides that were unrecoverable on the Garmin - lost trust in them). 

It's basically gotten to the point of set it and forget it, and it's awesome.


----------



## Tim Mailloux

The only thing missing is live tracking (the boss requires it). As soon as they add that feature I will order one.


----------



## Tim Mailloux

I just checked out the Wahoo site and it turns out the Element does have live tracking....guess I need to order one now.


----------



## Doulos24x7

Live tracking works. Only shows a dot with location, not breadcrumbs. RoadID has a great free app for live tracking too.

Sent from my XT1575 using Tapatalk


----------



## Migen21

Yes, live tracking is functional, as long as your phone has bluetooth, and a data connection. It is a bit lacking in features and functionality, but the basics are there.

I took my Elemnt on a long 105 mile mixed gravel and asphalt ride today, and it again performed flawlessly. It was a long day - over 10 hours from start to finish (some down time mid ride, and to assist a friend with a mechanical). It still finished the ride with over 30% battery remaining. Zero dropouts. Everything is working perfectly.


----------



## Doulos24x7

My only complaint after nearly 1,000 miles is the Elemnt beep for alerts (directions, phone alerts, segments) is too quiet.

Sent from my XT1575 using Tapatalk


----------



## Migen21

The last update was supposed to address the LED brightness and beep volume.

Have you updated?


----------



## Doulos24x7

Migen21 said:


> The last update was supposed to address the LED brightness and beep volume.
> 
> Have you updated?


I have updated. LEDs might be brighter, I don't remember them being dim before though. I still can't hear the alert beeps, especially at road speed on the road bike with the wind in my ears.

If i'm at a stop light and I get a call or text, no problem. I can hear it.

Another update it would be great to have a setting where the user can change the volume of the alert low/mid/high/klaxon.


----------



## Migen21

Turns out I mis-read the patch notes. They did increase the LED brightness, and they added beeps for turn-by-turn notification, but nothing was mentioned about the actual volume.

I do occasionally miss a beep if I'm at any kind of speed (i.d. descending), but I've just always chalked this up to the cost of going fast. 

I agree allowing a volume control would be ideal. Personally, I don't think I'd want it too much louder, as it might get distracting. Maybe a variable volume depending on your current speed? heh...


----------



## bjoshuanoah

Just got mine today. Unfortunately I also got dental work done today, so I have to wait a couple more days to try it out. 

I got everything all set up and the firmware updated. When I first tried updating the firmware it kept not working, so I turned my phone's bluetooth off, and downloaded the firmware via wifi. that worked a lot better.


----------



## Migen21

I thought I'd update this thread, since it's been two weeks.

I'm back on the standard public release everyone else is using. I've been riding nearly daily, sometimes twice a day on commute days, and usually along (100 mile plus) ride on the weekends.

Since the last update, everything is working excellent. Battery life is still great, sensors connect quickly, and I've had zero dropouts, and it stays connected to the phone (although I dont always use this).

I've also tried the turn-by-turn and Strava Live Segments. Neither of these features are very important to me, but occasionally I'll use turn by turn if I'm riding a new route, etc... 

The turn by turn is actually pretty good. Like a few other folks have said, I wish the beeps were a little louder. Most of the time they are fine, but in a noisy area, they can be a challenge to hear. It's taken a few tries to get used to the screen displays for the turn-by-turn, but now that I'm familiar with the map screen, and how the turn-by-turn updates, I'm quite happy with it.

I don't use the live segments feature much at all either, although I decided to give it a try on a private segment I've been trying to PR for a while. I set an goal for Aug 31 to do a particular loop in under an hour. My best time prior to this was peak summer season last year and it was about 1hr 7 minutes. I went into Strava and 'Starred' the segment, enabled the Live Segment page on the unit, and while it was on my home wifi, used the 'sync' button to sync the segment. It showed up on the sync page and I was ready to go.

This particular segment is an alternate route on my commute home. As I was coming down the hill approaching the start of the segment, the screen switched to the live segment page (this is user configurable), and the LED's started flashing to warn me I was about to start the segment. Once the segment started, the screen would update, and the LED's would indicate how far ahead or behind the goal time I was. You can configure the goal time to be the KOM (ha, yea right), your PR, or your Goal Time (if you have one set). I had set the goal for 1hr and it showed my status relative to that time throughout the ride. It was kinda fun really.. I'd get ahead of goal time by 20 or 30 seconds, and I'd think I had it made.. then I'd hit a sort climb and drop back to 20 or 30 seconds behind. This kinda worried me as the last two or three miles of this segment are uphill. Fortunately, I got to this point about 30 seconds ahead of my goal time, and was still feeling pretty good. I hammered up the last few miles and made up a little more time. By the time I was close to the finish, I was a minute ahead.. the Wahoo went into cheerleader mode telling me I was close to my goal. I ended up making the time with about 60 seconds to spare. 

It was fun, and I enjoyed using the feature. That said, I would not star a bunch of segments. I tried that and it gets really annoying. For my purposes, I might use it when I know I'm going to try for a best time somewhere, and probably only segments longer than 3 or 4 miles. Anything shorter and it's hard to keep up with the updates. Everything goes by too fast. 

Anyway, since the last update, everything is fine. New features work great. Sensors staying connected. Battery life still awesome.

My only minor nit right now is the live track website functionality needs some enhancement. I don't need it often, but it should at least show your track/breadcrumbs, and your status (moving, stopped for more than a min or two, etc...). Hopefully this will come soon.


----------



## Migen21

Looks like K-Edge has added a couple of new Stem Mounts to their ELEMNT portfolio..

Wahoo ELEMNT Replacement Insert - K-EDGE


----------



## BigPoser

Migen21 said:


> Looks like K-Edge has added a couple of new Stem Mounts to their ELEMNT portfolio..
> 
> Wahoo ELEMNT Replacement Insert - K-EDGE



A little off, but do you also receive notifications on the ELEMNT? If so, what are your thoughts? This is a feature that I really need to have since I'm always on call and don't always want to pull my phone out to see who is calling or texting me.


----------



## Migen21

I don't use it much (not on call, etc..), but I've received a few text messages and phone calls while riding and the phone is connected, and they showed up on the screen just fine. 

If I recall, you get a visual and audible notification for them, and you can open the device menu and read texts any time after that (until you dismiss them).

Same with phone calls. You see who is calling on the device when the phone is ringing.

Of course it's dependent on having the phone connected to the device via bluetooth at all times. If you keep your phone in your back jersey pocket and you ELEMNT is on your handlebars, your body can cause problems with this. I know it was an issue with the Garmins too. I keep my phone in my right side jersey pocket, and it seems to stay connected fairly well, but it's not something I monitor constantly.


----------



## Migen21

And the hits just keep comin'! 



Wahoo Element Update said:


> *ELEMNT WF42-1012 - 31 August 2016*This marks our 15th public release since February and its primary focus has been some great additional 3rd party support along with a heap of data fields requested by our users. Enjoy!
> 
> *BestBikeSplit* (http://bestbikesplit.com)
> 
> 
> 
> [*=left]Sync Course and Race plans from BestBikeSplit
> [*=left]BestBikeSplit advanced KICKR simulation
> - Simulated weather conditions
> - Road Rolling Resistance
> - Wind Effect
> - Air density
> - Rider drag
> - Dynamic weight during long courses
> 
> *Komoot* (http://komoot.de)
> 
> 
> 
> [*=left]Sync Tours from Komoot with turn by turn directions. Komoot provides a unique, high quality routing engine with some great additional information like road surface.
> 
> *Updates and Fixes*
> 
> 
> 
> [*=left]Support for 6, 7 & 8 Power zones including LED indication of current zone
> [*=left]Re-order history so power is higher up the list
> [*=left]Fixed issue with some of the history detail being cut off
> [*=left]Disable live segments for Flagged Segments
> [*=left]Updated some translations based on user feedback
> [*=left]Added Thai language support
> [*=left]Fixed continuous beeps on some route turns. Beep once when the banner is shown and once again just before the turn.
> [*=left]Fixed layout of TurnByTurn banner on map page with no data fields
> [*=left]Fixed Ride Recovery from not recovering after reboot
> 
> *45 New Data Fields!!*
> 
> 
> 
> [*=left]Distance (last lap)
> [*=left]Total Ascent (last lap)
> [*=left]Total Descent (last lap)
> [*=left]Grade (workout average, lap average, last lap average)
> [*=left]VAM (workout average, lap average, last lap average)
> [*=left]Power (last lap average)
> [*=left]Power/FTP % (instant, workout, lap, last-lap, 3sec, 5sec, 20sec & 30sec)
> [*=left]Watts/kg (workout average, lap average, last lap average)
> [*=left]L/R Balance (last lap)
> [*=left]L/R Balance fields now formatted with 2 values. eg 55/45
> [*=left]Pedal Smoothness (current, workout, lap, last lap) + include in FIT file
> [*=left]Torque Effectiveness (current, workout, lap, last lap) + include in FIT file
> [*=left]Normalised Power (Lap & Last Lap)
> [*=left]Intensity Factor data field now has 2 decimal places
> [*=left]Torque (workout average, lap average, last lap average)
> [*=left]Heart rate (last lap average)
> [*=left]Speed (last lap average)
> [*=left]Cadence (last lap average)
> [*=left]Power (Time in Zone graphic)
> [*=left]Added time in Power zone to FIT file
> [*=left]Heart rate (Time in Zone graphic)
> [*=left]Target Power (BestBikeSplit Races)
> [*=left]Target Speed (BestBikeSplit Races)
> [*=left]Routes distance to go
> [*=left]Routes distance to next cue


----------



## Doulos24x7

For alerts: The Element must be connected via Bluetooth to your phone AND the Elemnt app must be running.

The alerts do work well. For the average text you can read the entire text on the Elemnt screen. Not sure the character limit, but it's generous enough for most text messages.

I mostly carry my phone in a saddle bag when commuting, a back jersey pocket when road riding and a hydration pack when mountain biking. No issues with Bluetooth dropping.


----------



## Migen21

It might just be me, but after this mornings update, my Elemnt is not mapping properly. It's not writing enough map points. At least they aren't showing up in Strava. It just shows a bunch of long straight lines with a periodic direction change. The overall distance is not accurate (much less) and the speeds are way too high.

Sure, I'd love to say I can ride 294mph, but well, lets just say that didn't happen.

I opened a ticket. I'll see what they say.

Edit: I verified this isn't a Strava problem by manually extracting the .fit files and uploading them to RideWithGPS. They show the exact same bizarre anomalies.
Edit2: Strange, the numbers on the unit itself are correct. Meaning if I review "Hist" on the device, and scroll through todays two rides, they both show correct speeds and distances, but the .fit file in the "Export" folder, and any 'uploads' I've done to Strava and RideWithGPS are showing bad map data.

@HyperSprite, When you get back to this thread, will you update on the GPS accuracy issues you were having on page 2? I'm curious if that situation has improved for you. Actually, I'm wondering if they did some GPS tweaks to address that general problem, and broke something in the process. Or, hopefully, this is just me/my unit. 

Anyone else having GPS data point accuracy problems?


----------



## Migen21

Here is an image showing how bad the GPS mapping was on my last ride (commute home from work).

I'm not entirely sure the update caused this, as I rode home, ended the ride, was prompted for the update and installed it, and then uploaded the ride. So, technically, the GPS data was recorded prior to installing the update.

All four of the rides since have been like this. The downside is the map data is obviously very inaccurate. The plus side is, it gave me a max speed of 294mph for the ride, so now my friends all think I'm the fastest guy they know (kidding of course).

Support suggested I try deleting and re-installing the local map data from my state. I'll give that a try. She also suggested I double check to make sure the wheel speed sensor is closed completely. I think this was before she realized this was a mapping issue, and was focused on the 294mph speed thing. 

I'm not terribly hopeful either of these things will work. I suspect the GPS receiver in my unit may have flaked out. I'll try again this weekend with the refreshed map data.


----------



## The Human G-Nome

It has to be a defect in your unit, but the GPS on my ELEPHNT has been spot on perfect. It's never had an issue, and I bought it day one.


----------



## Migen21

The Human G-Nome said:


> It has to be a defect in your unit, but the GPS on my ELEPHNT has been spot on perfect. It's never had an issue, and I bought it day one.


My GPS has been perfect too, right up until last wednesdays commute. 

Timing is bad. I have big weekend rides coming up the next three weekends. If this isn't resolved, I'm going to have to 'borrow' my old Garmin from the person I gave it to (she hasn't used it) until I figure out whats up.


----------



## Migen21

Ok, after deleting and re-installing my local state maps, my last two rides have worked fine. No more GPS/mapping issues.

I have no idea if the maps were corrupted during the upgrade, or if something else was causing it. 

I'll leave my posts here just in case someone else has a similar issue in the future and happens on this thread.


----------



## Migen21

Has anyone else used the feature that shows other ELEMNT users on their map?

I was on a group ride last night. Three of us had ELEMNT's. We took the opportunity to try keeping track of each other on the map screen.

I found the experience inconsistent. It seems we would more-or-less randomly appear and disappear from each others maps.

There is very little information about this feature on Wahoo's website. Other than having to enable Live Track and be connected to the Companion app, there are no settings for it.

It seems to me there should be a way to customize a few things.

1. Be able to opt out of being displayed on other peoples units without having to disable live tracking
2. Be able to customize the name displayed on other peoples units (it defaults to first name last initial)
3. Have a 'friends' list of some kind, or some way to filter who you see. Right now, according to support, it supposedly shows everyone with an ELEMNT (who has live track enabled) on your map within your current zoom level. Although my experience with it was fairly poor yesterday. 

I chatted with support about this today. He wasn't able to tell me why users were intermittently dropping from each others maps. Basically he just told me that this feature is still in development.

It's kind of a bummer. I'm doing a Gran Fondo next weekend with a couple of friends. We are in different start groups, and were hoping to use this feature to join up after the ride starts.


----------



## Migen21

Firmware and companion app updates

ELEMNT Software Updates ? Wahoo Fitness Support



> *ELEMNT WF44-1215 - 15 November 2016
> 
> ** Summary
> *
> 
> 
> 
> [*=left]Route Me Anywhere: On the Companion App, enter a destination, address, or point of interest to generate a route optimized for cycling, complete with turn-by-turn navigation.
> [*=left]Back to Start: Either on the ELEMNT or the Companion App, selecting this option will create a route back to your ride's starting point, on the same way you came.
> [*=left]Route Sync via Bluetooth: All the magic of Wi-Fi route syncing can now be done over Bluetooth! Send any route to your ELEMNT with only your smartphone.
> 
> 
> *Routes*
> 
> 
> 
> [*=left]Ride any route in reverse
> [*=left]Ride route back to start along breadcrumb path
> [*=left]Support for importing GPX, TCX and FIT route files via USB
> [*=left]Support for selecting route from companion app
> [*=left]Support for sending any route from companion app to ELEMNT using Bluetooth (no Wifi)
> [*=left]Support for "Route Me Anywhere" routes from companion app
> [*=left]Fixed OFF Route notification only staying on for a short time
> [*=left]Fixed Komoot roundabout exit number
> [*=left]Improvements to RideWithGPS turn by turn parsing
> [*=left]Fixed distance to go not updating on route detail screen
> *Share*
> 
> 
> 
> [*=left]Disable support Garmin Connect (they are no longer allowing us to upload files)
> [*=left]Fixed issues with some RideWithGPS passwords
> *Workouts*
> 
> 
> 
> [*=left]Fixed issue with distance not incrementing after workout recovery
> [*=left]Fixed Normalized Power, IF and TSS calculations
> [*=left]Improved ANT+ Connection
> *Other*
> 
> 
> 
> [*=left]Greatly improved UI responsiveness
> [*=left]Improved battery life
> [*=left]Tweak LED brightness
> [*=left]Added LED settings to ELEMNT menu
> [*=left]Several other crash and stability improvements
> [*=left]Localisation fixes


----------



## Lallement

I like that they seem to be really intent on doing regular software upgrades. I like a lot of things about this device. 

How is the Elemnt at navigating? Is it possible to have it provide alternate routes if you detour or get off course, or does it remain wedded to the predetermined route?


----------



## Doulos24x7

It does not "reroute/recalculate" on the fly, but you can zoom out/in if you get off course to find your way back onto the plotted course.

The recent updates though seem to promise a pretty big change in that behavior if paired to your phone. And they may be moving in that direction for a future update!

ELEMNT Software Updates ? Wahoo Fitness Support


----------



## Doulos24x7

https://www.bikerumor.com/2016/11/1...improved-gps-guidance-mid-ride-route-changes/


----------



## Migen21

Im pretty happy with the new additions. I've been frustrated by having to change routes mid-ride and not being able to update on the Wahoo. Also, out and backs will be a lot better now as well.

I'm curious to see if they improved the sensor connectivity stability when you have more than 6 or 7 sensors in your sensor pool

I had about 4 bikes worth of sensors paired at one point, and found that periodically, all of my sensors would drop out simultaneously for a few seconds. 

I opened a ticket with wahoo. They told me to reduce the number of paired sensors and see if that helps. It did. It's kind of inconvenient to have to unpair and re-pair sensors every time I ride a different bike. it kind of defeats the benefits sensor pool feature.

I haven't checked on this since this latest update (crappy weather). I'll post an update after I've had a chance to check it out.


----------



## Migen21

Small update for some bug fixes

ELEMNT Software Updates ? Wahoo Fitness Support



> [*=left]Fixed an issue causing some sensors to take a long time to connect after bootup
> [*=left]Map will now honor the user's auto-rotate setting for all zoom levels
> [*=left]Improved translations


----------



## SkiLikeMe

Elemnt owners, it sounds like turn by turn can be accomplished either via the "route me anywhere' portion of the companion app, or via an upload from Komoot/RWGps. That being said, I really enjoy the "Route Genius" on MapMyRide. If I created a route in MMR, exported to RWGps, would the Elemnt do turn by turn on that route? Or does the route legitimately need to be created within RWGps? 

Secondly, if you get off route, has there been an update that reroutes you? Or are you still on your own to get back to the marked route?

Thanks in advance!


----------



## Doulos24x7

On your own to route back. I don't know about MMR to RWGPS transfers retaining turn by turn.

Sent from my XT1575 using Tapatalk


----------



## plag

Whats the best price we can get these? deals bundles?


----------



## Cartoscro

$329 is pretty much the standard. Ebay has cheaper, but Wahoo says they won't warranty them.


----------



## Migen21

Pretty sure Wahoo stuff is price controlled - you might be able to score a deal with some kind of 'shopping cart' coupon somewhere. 

I got mine through a bike shop and got a pretty good deal as a 'preferred customer' and buying a few other things (Power Meter, Tickr, etc...).


----------



## OldSkoolFatGuy

SkiLikeMe said:


> Elemnt owners, it sounds like turn by turn can be accomplished either via the "route me anywhere' portion of the companion app, or via an upload from Komoot/RWGps. That being said, I really enjoy the "Route Genius" on MapMyRide. If I created a route in MMR, exported to RWGps, would the Elemnt do turn by turn on that route? Or does the route legitimately need to be created within RWGps?
> 
> Secondly, if you get off route, has there been an update that reroutes you? Or are you still on your own to get back to the marked route?
> 
> Thanks in advance!


Yes turn by turn is available with MMR. I use it all the time! As far as reroute goes, I've never had to use that feature.


----------



## Cartoscro

Did first ride today with Elemnt on a group ride. Routing worked flawlessly, and I didn't even have the TBT setup (route was from Strava). It was working better than the ride leader's Garmin routing, so I ended up being the one calling the turns. Loving it so far!


----------



## MMsRepBike

> Aerodynamic design makes the BOLT the world’s fastest cycle computer
> Full suite of features offered in the original ELEMNT computer
> High-contrast grayscale screen for maximum visibility
> Simple app-based setup controlled by your smartphone
> Seamless compatibility with the entire Wahoo training ecosystem
> Strava integration, including ride mapping & turn-by-turn directions


----------



## Migen21

Looks sweet! not thrilled about the proprietary mount. 

I wonder how the battery life will be compared to his big brother!?


----------



## MMsRepBike




----------



## Migen21

Ahh, the mount is backwards compatible - cool!

Edit: and battery life is estimated at 15 hours (2hrs less the big brother)


----------



## OldZaskar

Just ordered the "Bolt." This breaks an 8-year Garmin streak for me. Will report back.


----------



## Cartoscro

Expect the original Elemnt design to be phased out. There is not enough difference between the two to justify spending $80 more for a slightly larger screen. It would have made more sense to offer the Bolt without navigation at sub-$200. Then it would have been worth offering both.

My Elemnt just took a big hit on resale value.


----------



## WheresWaldo

I didn't see it in any of the linked videos or in DCRainmaker's review, I am an Edge user so I want to know what and how Di2 information displayed on the BOLT?


----------



## MMsRepBike




----------



## Migen21

WheresWaldo said:


> I didn't see it in any of the linked videos or in DCRainmaker's review, I am an Edge user so I want to know what and how Di2 information displayed on the BOLT?


If it's like the ELEMNT, it's similar to Garmin in that it will display your current gear in text or graphic form depending on how your page is set up - under the 'sensor' menu, you can check battery life remaining. It doesn't do shifting statistics post ride like Garmin does, although they have stated 'it's coming'. Last time I checked there was no way to put the Di2 battery level on a data screen, although I'm sure there will be new features and updates to go along with the release of the Bolt.

You can also use your Dura-Ace thumb buttons to change display pages on the head unit, although that may be change with the new Di2 sync and multi-shift functionality - I haven't messed with those yet.


----------



## TricrossRich

I've not seen an Elemnt in real life yet, but I still don't think this unit looks very good.. it may be "Aero", but IMO, it still looks fat and chunky from this view.


----------



## Migen21

TricrossRich said:


> I've not seen an Elemnt in real life yet, but I still don't think this unit looks very good.. it may be "Aero", but IMO, it still looks fat and chunky from this view.


I can't speak for anyone else, but aesthetics is waaaaaaaaaaay down on my list of things I wan't my head unit to be good at.

First and foremost is readability (Wahoo blows garmin away in this regard), second is the data fields available (same as garmin here), and followed by usability (buttons, etc..), durability, battery life and other secondary features. How pretty it is would come way down on the bottom of the list after all of this stuff. 

I have used the original Elemnt since it was released and other than some early sensor pairing issues, it's been outstanding. Especially with the new features that were added last year. If live tracking is an important feature, wahoo's current implementation is not as good as Garmins, but updates to this are in the pipeline as well. 

Having used garmins units for years including the Edge 1000, 810 and 510, and now the Elemnt for the last year and a half or so, if someone were offering to give me any head unit I wanted for free, the Elemnt (probably the Bolt assuming the battery life claims are accurate) would be my first choice.

Edit to add: The readability of the screen, battery life, and the programability via the mobile app are the main things that I like over the Garmin, not to mention the Elemnt doesn't have the Garmin's ability to totally screw up my ride data for random, unexplainable reasons, which happened far too frequently on every Garmin device I've ever owned.


----------



## MMsRepBike

I hear they are using a better quality GPS antenna than Garmin.

I don't like any of the newer Garmin units and I don't like Garmin much at all to begin with.

I may give this a go. Only issue I have is I'll have to break the tabs and install a dogears in order to use my current custom Garmin mounts (that are not rotatable).


----------



## TricrossRich

Migen21 said:


> I can't speak for anyone else, but aesthetics is waaaaaaaaaaay down on my list of things I wan't my head unit to be good at.


Fair enough... I'd say that I probably agree. I only bring it up because they seem to be making a big deal about how small and "not chunky" it looks, but I still don't think it looks that good. I think I like the looks of the original better, but again, I haven't seen it in person, so maybe the size isn't turning me off to the original one.

I used a 510 for 3 years with no issues and never really understood the garmin hatred from people. Mine just always worked and I never really had to think about it at all. I upgraded to an 820 this past Christmas, but not because the 510 had anything wrong with it. I would have been perfectly content to stay with my 510, but my family was searching for a christmas gift to give me that I'd really use, so I said an 820. It has worked as I expected and while I would say that I didn't really NEED the navigation feature, I have found it useful a few times already. 

That being said, I'm all for competition and it seems like they've got a good thing going, so rock on.


----------



## OldZaskar

TricrossRich said:


> I've not seen an Elemnt in real life yet, but I still don't think this unit looks very good.. it may be "Aero", but IMO, it still looks fat and chunky from this view.


I actually think it's good-looking - at least from this view. And, since I hope (!) to view it primarily from this angle, I'm looking forward to using it.


----------



## Migen21

OldZaskar said:


> I actually think it's good-looking - at least from this view. And, since I hope (!) to view it primarily from this angle, I'm looking forward to using it.


I'm with you OldZaskar, I like the way it looks. Of course aesthetics are subjective, so not everyone is going to find it appealing.


----------



## Cartoscro

TricrossRich said:


> Fair enough... I'd say that I probably agree. I only bring it up because they seem to be making a big deal about how small and "not chunky" it looks, but I still don't think it looks that good. I think I like the looks of the original better, but again, I haven't seen it in person, so maybe the size isn't turning me off to the original one.
> 
> I used a 510 for 3 years with no issues and never really understood the garmin hatred from people. Mine just always worked and I never really had to think about it at all. I upgraded to an 820 this past Christmas, but not because the 510 had anything wrong with it. I would have been perfectly content to stay with my 510, but my family was searching for a christmas gift to give me that I'd really use, so I said an 820. It has worked as I expected and while I would say that I didn't really NEED the navigation feature, I have found it useful a few times already.
> 
> That being said, I'm all for competition and it seems like they've got a good thing going, so rock on.


The ability to 'cut the cord' was the biggest selling point for me. When I'm done with my ride, my ride is synced to Dropbox...which is automatically imported into Golden Cheetah when I first open the program. Especially me, coming from an Edge500, I needed to plug up even to upload to Strava. I feel like I'm actually living in the future with the Elemnt now.

Secondly, I do alot of navigating...at least once a week sometimes more. The process of creating the route, and have it automatically sync over Wifi is a huge plus for me. Again, I don't have to physically plug it up, download route from web, drag into the Garmin, hope it takes it correctly....With the Elemnt, it's just there and works flawlessly.

For my intended uses, I only have to plug it up to charge.


----------



## TricrossRich

OldZaskar said:


> I actually think it's good-looking - at least from this view. And, since I hope (!) to view it primarily from this angle, I'm looking forward to using it.


 I agree with you here. It does look good from the top.



Cartoscro said:


> The ability to 'cut the cord' was the biggest selling point for me. When I'm done with my ride, my ride is synced to Dropbox...which is automatically imported into Golden Cheetah when I first open the program. Especially me, coming from an Edge500, I needed to plug up even to upload to Strava. I feel like I'm actually living in the future with the Elemnt now.
> 
> Secondly, I do alot of navigating...at least once a week sometimes more. The process of creating the route, and have it automatically sync over Wifi is a huge plus for me. Again, I don't have to physically plug it up, download route from web, drag into the Garmin, hope it takes it correctly....With the Elemnt, it's just there and works flawlessly.
> 
> For my intended uses, I only have to plug it up to charge.


Yea... The 820 (and I think the 520) cut the cord too. My 820 connects via bluetooth and wifi so when I'm done with a ride it does all of that uploading stuff by itself. I do need to cord for charging, but I'm sure the wahoo does too. I'd also need the cord to load routes, but admittedly I don't do much of this, so this wouldn't be a huge selling feature to me.


----------



## Migen21

MMsRepBike said:


> I hear they are using a better quality GPS antenna than Garmin.
> 
> I don't like any of the newer Garmin units and I don't like Garmin much at all to begin with.
> 
> I may give this a go. Only issue I have is I'll have to break the tabs and install a dogears in order to use my current custom Garmin mounts (that are not rotatable).



This may not help you, but in case others have aftermarket mounts, you can get inserts for the Elemnt that drop into K-Edge. You could probably adapt this to work with a center screw version as well.

I have several K-Edge mounts that I converted from Garmin to Wahoo using these when I first bought my original Elemnt a year and a half ago.

Wahoo ELEMNT Replacement Insert - K-EDGE


----------



## RL7836

Migen21 said:


> I have several K-Edge mounts that I converted from Garmin to Wahoo using these when I first bought my original Elemnt a year and a half ago.


So, the Bolt won't twist into a standard Garmin mount?

Another unrelated question: Does the bolt also use Glonass satellites for GPS? I read the DCR review but did not see this mentioned.


----------



## MMsRepBike

No, the bolt does not go into a Garmin mount, it's rotated 90 degrees. Tabs are top and bottom instead of left and right sides.










This is the type I'm talking about. CNC machined Aluminum, cannot be rotated. Only option for me is to break the tabs on the bolt and install a dogears type of adapter. 


If you have a mount that uses a plastic insert for the Garmin, like from K-Edge or whatever, you can just get a different insert. Or if you have something from Rec-Mounts you can just rotate it and maybe have to widen the slots a touch.


----------



## Migen21

My comment about being backwards compatible was in reference to the original Wahoo Elemnt mount, not Garmin.

Some third party "Garmin" mounts, like the K-Edge's, can be adapted to work with either Elemnt for the low low price of $5 US (See my link above for K-Edge's insert).

I converted several K-Edge out-front mounts from Garmin to Elemnt when I got my original Elemnt a year and a half or so ago.


----------



## Migen21

Oh cool, another improvement for the Bolt over the standard ELEMNT is the addition of a Tether - This is something I missed on my original ELEMNT


----------



## OldZaskar

Migen21 said:


> Oh cool, another improvement for the Bolt over the standard ELEMNT is the addition of a Tether - This is something I missed on my original ELEMNT


Since we don't yet have a sarcasm font, I can't tell if you're kidding - a tether? Really? I think I've removed them from every device I've ever had that came with one - going back to my first WalkMan.


----------



## Migen21

Not sarcasm - the thing costs $250 - I ride a lot of gravel and rough terrain - the last thing I want is to have it go flying off of my handlebars.

A good friend just had a Garmin Edge 1000 destroyed by a car after it dislodged bunny hopping a pothole. He had removed his tether over the winter after using it the last two seasons _*-regrets-*_. I've also seen them go flying as a result of crashes. I remember watching a fairly minor pileup during a crit race last year and several Garmin 500s went skittering down the road as a result.

I guess my feeling is, if you don't want it, don't use it, but if you do want it, at least give us the option.


----------



## OldZaskar

That makes solid sense. In fact... last year on a long FS road (mtn bikes) climb, my friend - about 15 yards back - yelled up "Hey, want me to pick up your Garmin?" Yep, had popped and dropped, and I was oblivious. So, maybe I should rethink that tether thing ;-)


----------



## jetdog9

Any chance a Mod can rename this thread Wahoo ELEMNT + BOLT ?


----------



## Migen21

I thought about this as well, but technically the Bolt is still an ELEMNT - it's just got the word "Bolt" appended to it... might have warranted it's own thread though.


----------



## MMsRepBike




----------



## MMsRepBike

Migen21 said:


> Oh cool, another improvement for the Bolt over the standard ELEMNT is the addition of a Tether - This is something I missed on my original ELEMNT


The tether would be for people like me that would use a third party mount. If you use the provided mount, that's what the little silver screw is on the underside. It screws the unit into the mount.

And as they've mentioned, that legally makes the computer part of the bike, seeing how it's then screwed down. It can add weight for teams and situations where it's needed instead of having to glue on or install weights to the bottom bracket.


----------



## Migen21

I won't use the screw even on the standard mount. 

Too much hassle to swap between bikes and put on the charger.

The tether is quick and easy.





Sent from my Pixel using Tapatalk


----------



## MMsRepBike

Interestingly it seems as though Wahoo has a third Elemnt head unit in the works. As seen in the comment section of a video above, Bike24 was having a presale for a new Elemnt Mini for 100 euro, complete with picture and all. Release date of mide April maybe. Apparently they deleted the presale today, not sure how long it was going for. Looking at the picture, it's quite clear that it's not the original nor the bolt but a different unit altogether.

So maybe the original Elemnt will be discontinued seeing how the bolt is essentially the same hardware. And then maybe the mini will come in as a cheap option, one they'll support properly unlike the Rflkt.


----------



## Cartoscro

MMsRepBike said:


> Interestingly it seems as though Wahoo has a third Elemnt head unit in the works. As seen in the comment section of a video above, Bike24 was having a presale for a new Elemnt Mini for 100 euro, complete with picture and all. Release date of mide April maybe. Apparently they deleted the presale today, not sure how long it was going for. Looking at the picture, it's quite clear that it's not the original nor the bolt but a different unit altogether.
> 
> So maybe the original Elemnt will be discontinued seeing how the bolt is essentially the same hardware. And then maybe the mini will come in as a cheap option, one they'll support properly unlike the Rflkt.


Knew that was coming. It makes zero sense from their perspective to offer both the Bolt and original Elemnt. Why spend money to manufacturer two casings that do the exact same thing? They probably recognized one of the biggest gripes with the original couldn't be remedied in the old housing (near silent notification tones)...so just start over. Once they have a non-mapping option in the $150 range, they will truly be a garmin killer.


----------



## MMsRepBike

https://fccid.io/document.php?id=3205485

https://fccid.io/PADWF114


----------



## Srode

Cartoscro said:


> Once they have a non-mapping option in the $150 range, they will truly be a garmin killer.


Nah, it will just force a change in Garmin's pricing and or innovation plans - competition is a good thing for the consumer!


----------



## Migen21

I'll just leave this here.

https://fccid.io/document.php?id=3205493


----------



## Migen21

I took my Bolt out for it's maiden voyage yesterday - a 60 mile out and back over a paved rail trail - some of through heavily wooded areas.

I had the phone connected the entire time, but not use a 'route' or any nav features - and did not have the LED's configured. I had the backlight set to '5 seconds (timeout).

The total elapsed time was just over 4 hours and the battery was at 70% at the end of the ride.

TLDR; the thing is awesome in every way - I couldn't be happier with it.

Some differences between it and the original Elemnt that haven't been mentioned (much).

The sounds - BEEPS are *MUCH* louder - easily heard even when riding at speed.
The buttons - very tactile feel - easy to press - good feedback, even with gloves on - they are a tad smaller than the original, but overall they are a big improvement.
Weight - I'm far from a weight weenie, but this thing has a much lighter feel to it than the original Element. 
Mount - Not only lighter and more aero than the original, the unit 'snaps' in far more positively - it feels very secure when clicked in (I did not use the screw, and my tether has not arrived yet.
Sensors - Everything paired up just fine - no issues there at all (not really a huge surprise - the original Elemnt has had flawless sensor performance since last fall.
Display - Really good - I loved the display on my original Elemnt, and the Bolt is just as good.


My only minor nit is that the offset of the mount is slightly too small to center the unit in front of the stem on my BMC Road Machine - the face plate/clamping mechanism on the front of this stem is a little wider than most stems. The result is the Bolt is about 2mm off center to the left when looking straight down at it. It doesn't have any functional effect, but aesthetically it's a minor annoyance.

If anyone has any specific questions, let me know.


----------



## Cartoscro

Something I noticed on the Bolt that hasn't been mentioned. The charging port is on the bottom edge, which will likely be too close to the stem to charge on-the-go. I guess you could mount it upside down while charging, but that would be a pain. Another plus for the original Elemnt, where the charging port is on the back.


----------



## Drew Eckhardt

Cartoscro said:


> Something I noticed on the Bolt that hasn't been mentioned. The charging port is on the bottom edge, which will likely be too close to the stem to charge on-the-go. I guess you could mount it upside down while charging, but that would be a pain. Another plus for the original Elemnt, where the charging port is on the back.


Actually, that location is better for charging while riding. 90 degree USB cables plugged into a port parallel to the ground stay put, while those perpendicular to the ground can fall out under their own weight.

I have a Garmin Edge 800 on a K-Edge XL I use with a stem mounted Busch & Müller USB Werk power supply with a right angle USB cable. It works great for 20 hour rides.

Whether that works with the standard "aero" BOLT mount is a separate issue.


----------



## Migen21

I agree, I actually prefer to use 90 degree cables for stuff like this - this way there isn't a long tail sticking out - less likely to get hit and break/bend something.

I use one like this, but you can get these types of cables in left, right, up, or down angles, in whatever length you need, and whatever type of connector you need on the other end.


----------



## defboob

I did my first ride today with the ELEMNT BOLT. I'm very happy with it. I had been using a Garmin Edge 510 for a couple years now, and so this is a welcome change of pace. It was so satisfying deleting garmin connect and formatting the 510, going to be selling it. I got tired of the garmin software more than anything, the 510 would freeze up from time to time, and worst off there had been a couple times for no reason it would go corrupt and i'd lose my profile/settings.

The Wahoo app is refreshing, modern, and well set up. So easy to use, setup, and it's fast. Tie that in with the Bolt and i'm a happy camper. One of the great things about the Wahoo/Bolt is that it just syncs to the phone automatically. You don't have to touch your phone to make sure it's connected with it (like i had to do with the garmin to ensure it was connected (a dumb permissions thing to connect, every.single.time.) and would sync my ride to strava when finished). You just turn it on, start your ride, and finish your ride. The Bolt's screen is easier to see/read in bright sunlight compared to the garmin as well, and I love the sound effects with it.

Overall, this is a winner, and i'm happy to have left the garmin camp.


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## Migen21

Minor software Elemnt software update today.

https://support.wahoofitness.com/hc/en-us/articles/217285397-ELEMNT-Software-Updates

*3 April 2017
**ELEMNT WF42-1344
ELEMNT BOLT WB09-1344
*



[*=left]Fix incorrect elevation data after mid workout shutdown and recovery
[*=left]Improve some button labels to fit better for various languages
[*=left]Base the LEDs and power zone calculations on the 3-second average power, not instantaneous power
[*=left]Update some compliance informationImprove some translations
[*=left]Reset to OUTDOOR mode on startup. Lots of reports of people accidentally riding in INDOOR mode and not having GPS
[*=left]Fix issue where call/SMS/email notifications were hidden behind the workout paused notification


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## TricrossRich

Here's a question for those that have gone form Garmin to Wahoo.... the Element and Element Bolt should pick up and recognize all of the Garmin ant+ sensors, correct? or do I need to buy all new sensors in addition?


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## Cartoscro

My Elemnt paired with my Garmin speed sensor faster than my old Garmin did.


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## RL7836

TricrossRich said:


> ... the Element and Element Bolt should pick up and recognize all of the Garmin ant+ sensors, correct?


All ANT+ and (unlike Garmin) also Bluetooth Smart (Wahoo listing)


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## TricrossRich

Cartoscro said:


> My Elemnt paired with my Garmin speed sensor faster than my old Garmin did.





RL7836 said:


> All ANT+ and (unlike Garmin) also Bluetooth Smart (Wahoo listing)



Thanks guys... I figured that was the case, but wanted to make sure I wasn't missing something stupid.


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## TiCoyote

How does the reliability of the Wahoo compare with the reliability of the Garmin devices? 

I have the Edge 500, and I have the following intermittent reliability issues: 
1. Speed goes to zero in certain areas (one bridge with an uneven surface)
2. I have to remove the HRM from the device if I'm not actually using the HRM, or else the PM won't calibrate, and sometimes won't pair. 
3. After calibrating the PM, sometimes the menus get all funky and I need to restart. Sometimes I need to restart 2x. 

I was thinking about upgrading to a 520, but I'd get the Bolt if it's more reliable.


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## Cartoscro

TiCoyote said:


> How does the reliability of the Wahoo compare with the reliability of the Garmin devices?
> 
> I have the Edge 500, and I have the following intermittent reliability issues:
> 1. Speed goes to zero in certain areas (one bridge with an uneven surface)
> 2. I have to remove the HRM from the device if I'm not actually using the HRM, or else the PM won't calibrate, and sometimes won't pair.
> 3. After calibrating the PM, sometimes the menus get all funky and I need to restart. Sometimes I need to restart 2x.
> 
> I was thinking about upgrading to a 520, but I'd get the Bolt if it's more reliable.


I'm coming from an edge 500 as well, and had the same issue you listed. Going to the Elemnt, it's almost as if I'm living in the future now. It has been very reliable, even on longer 13+ hour rides that were near impossible with the 500 (battery life began to fade especially following a breadcrumb route). The simplicity of controlling everything from your phone is WELL worth the price. Add to that the awesome routing function with Wahoo, and it's a no brainer.


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## Migen21

I've had several Garmin products in the distant past, and had numerous problems with them, both of the hardware and software variety.

I switched to the original Element within weeks of it being released. My only complaints were related to sensor dropout issues with some of the early firmwares (long since resolved). I treated myself to a Bolt when they came out and love everything about it.


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## TricrossRich

Cartoscro said:


> My Elemnt paired with my Garmin speed sensor faster than my old Garmin did.


Ok.. here's another question for you guys. How do the Elements handle multiple bikes? I have multiple bikes, each with their own sensors. With my 510, I had multiple bike profiles with each profile set up to connect to the sensors on that bike. On my 820, Garmin uses what they call a "sensor pool" which basically means I connect all of the sensors to the unit and it automatically figures out which ones to use as I ride the bike and the sensors wake up. How does the Element and Bolt handle this? Thanks in advance.


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## Cartoscro

TricrossRich said:


> Ok.. here's another question for you guys. How do the Elements handle multiple bikes? I have multiple bikes, each with their own sensors. With my 510, I had multiple bike profiles with each profile set up to connect to the sensors on that bike. On my 820, Garmin uses what they call a "sensor pool" which basically means I connect all of the sensors to the unit and it automatically figures out which ones to use as I ride the bike and the sensors wake up. How does the Element and Bolt handle this? Thanks in advance.


I don't have experience with multiple bikes/sensors, but the Google group I'm on says it works fine (remembers all sensors). It does not, however have multiple bike profiles like Garmin.


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## Migen21

The Elemnt uses a sensor pool. It doesn't have the concept of 'bike profiles'. Whichever sensors are active (from your pool) are the ones that will be recording.

If you have multiple sensors (say someone else is riding one of your bikes nearby with your PM or cadence sensor on it), you can easily 'disable' unused sensors with a quick swipe inside the app.

I have four bikes that I ride regularly, and all of them have either a PM or cadence sensor, as well as a speed sensor. I just make sure I have the sensors I'm using on a given ride enabled in the app, and the rest disabled. 

I also have multiple HRM's that I wear variably. Same goes for those.


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## MMsRepBike

Migen21 said:


> If you have multiple sensors (say someone else is riding one of your bikes nearby with your PM or cadence sensor on it), you can easily 'disable' unused sensors with a quick swipe inside the app.


The sensor pool Garmin uses on it's new units is one of my gripes with them.

The problem I have encountered is this:

Some bikes have power/cadence sensors such as Stages.
Some bikes have separate power and cadence such as Powertap hub and Wahoo cadence sensor.

When using a new Garmin (520, 820, etc) with a sensor pool, if I grab a bike with a Stages, the entire ride the unit will constantly continue to search for a stand alone cadence unit. All the while, the unit is displaying cadence via the Stages. 

So you say, by taking out a phone and going into an application you can disable a sensor, fine, but does the Wahoo constantly search for them needlessly like the Garmin? It's shown on the Garmin by a blinking icon in the pool.

By the way, I bought a brand new 520 and after a week or so basically threw it in the trash, never going to use that junk.


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## TricrossRich

Migen21 said:


> The Elemnt uses a sensor pool. It doesn't have the concept of 'bike profiles'. Whichever sensors are active (from your pool) are the ones that will be recording.
> 
> If you have multiple sensors (say someone else is riding one of your bikes nearby with your PM or cadence sensor on it), you can easily 'disable' unused sensors with a quick swipe inside the app.
> 
> I have four bikes that I ride regularly, and all of them have either a PM or cadence sensor, as well as a speed sensor. I just make sure I have the sensors I'm using on a given ride enabled in the app, and the rest disabled.
> 
> I also have multiple HRM's that I wear variably. Same goes for those.


Good to know... I figured that was the case, but didn't see it mentioned in any of the reviews. It was probably already covered in the original Elemnt reviews.





MMsRepBike said:


> The sensor pool Garmin uses on it's new units is one of my gripes with them.
> 
> The problem I have encountered is this:
> 
> Some bikes have power/cadence sensors such as Stages.
> Some bikes have separate power and cadence such as Powertap hub and Wahoo cadence sensor.
> 
> When using a new Garmin (520, 820, etc) with a sensor pool, if I grab a bike with a Stages, the entire ride the unit will constantly continue to search for a stand alone cadence unit. All the while, the unit is displaying cadence via the Stages.
> 
> So you say, by taking out a phone and going into an application you can disable a sensor, fine, but does the Wahoo constantly search for them needlessly like the Garmin? It's shown on the Garmin by a blinking icon in the pool.
> 
> By the way, I bought a brand new 520 and after a week or so basically threw it in the trash, never going to use that junk.


Interesting... I have basically the same thing going on with my bikes and can't say that I've ever had that issue. I've got a Stages PM reporting power/cadence and speed sensors on both of my road bikes. I also have a speed and standard cadence sensor on my Fatbike. The 820 always seems to get it right.


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## pittcanna

TricrossRich said:


> Ok.. here's another question for you guys. How do the Elements handle multiple bikes? I have multiple bikes, each with their own sensors. With my 510, I had multiple bike profiles with each profile set up to connect to the sensors on that bike. On my 820, Garmin uses what they call a "sensor pool" which basically means I connect all of the sensors to the unit and it automatically figures out which ones to use as I ride the bike and the sensors wake up. How does the Element and Bolt handle this? Thanks in advance.


I will find out tonight, the element is in shipment to me.


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## Migen21

TricrossRich said:


> Good to know... I figured that was the case, but didn't see it mentioned in any of the reviews. It was probably already covered in the original Elemnt reviews.
> 
> Interesting... I have basically the same thing going on with my bikes and can't say that I've ever had that issue. I've got a Stages PM reporting power/cadence and speed sensors on both of my road bikes. I also have a speed and standard cadence sensor on my Fatbike. The 820 always seems to get it right.


If a sensor is toggled off in the app, it won't search for it at all. If it's toggled on, it will continue to search for it.


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## endcycle

Heya!

So I use an apple watch as my heart rate monitor along with cyclemeter as my main cycling tracker on my phone. I find that's good enough, in general, but I'd love to have them integrate into a handlebar display of some sort. I looked at the older Wahoo RFLKT a few years ago, but it seemed to be buggy as hell and had issues I didn't think were worth dealing with. 

I like the idea of a computer that I can mount, will talk to my cell phone for data, will talk to my apple watch for HRM, and also has good GPS capabilities. 

Does anyone here have an apple watch working with one of these? What's the experience like? Thanks in advance for any input -


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## SilverStar07

I don't have an Apple watch but do use an iPhone with the RFLKT+ on one of my bikes and it works great. It was a little "buggy" at first but Wahoo was very quick to respond to any issue I had with either a "work around" because they didn't have a fix yet or a fix for the problem. In fact I like it way better than the Lezyne Y9 Super GPS (first gen) I bought last year, which I have had nothing but issues with. I think I am going back to using my RFLKT with all my bikes unless Lezyne comes up with some miracle fix. I really wish I would have bought the Wahoo Elemnt instead of the Lezyne.

SS-


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## endcycle

Ah well. Asked via email - from Wahoo:

I am sorry but the ELEMNT will not pair to an Apple watch. It will pair to all fitness sensors but not watches.


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## 9W9W

I just clicked buy on a BOLT (purchasing via clevertraining.com helps to keep DC rainmaker in business) and just like that my hate/hate relationship with Garmin is over. 

Bye bye horrible undeveloped apps, interface, bugs, lost rides, glitches, gooooood riddance! My unit and a very nice bar fly mount is off to eBay (always in silicone case, never abused, not much use).


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## Cartoscro

I would suggest 3M protective tape on the screen of the Elemnt (and presumably Bolt), if you plan to ride in muddy conditions. Wiped the screen in a rainy, muddy gravel grind, and now my screen has a huge scratch. Didn't even wipe hard...the screen is very easily scratched.


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## atm0013

Hi,

Related to navigation, can you use offline maps and send the route to the device? For example, you are in another country and you want to use navigation but you don't have data available on the phone. With navigation i mean, search a place and the app creates the route to send to the Element bolt.

And is it possible to use the front mount with a deda 35mm handlebar?

Thanks in advance.


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## Chader09

Aero:
https://www.dcrainmaker.com/2017/05/wahoo-bolt-aero-testing.html

_A) The BOLT was the fastest bike computer against the “leading competitor”_
_B) The BOLT would save you “12.6 seconds in a 40KM time trial”_


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## Migen21

atm0013 said:


> Hi,
> 
> Related to navigation, can you use offline maps and send the route to the device? For example, you are in another country and you want to use navigation but you don't have data available on the phone. With navigation i mean, search a place and the app creates the route to send to the Element bolt.
> 
> And is it possible to use the front mount with a deda 35mm handlebar?
> 
> Thanks in advance.


I'm not positive, but I would be surprised of the mapping function of the phone worked without data. I don't think the phone can store offline maps.

To get a definitive answer, I would suggest sending an email the Wahoo and ask them.


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## jjspike

Picked mine up earlier today and love it! In regards to the Bolt, the shop received 10 free-stock units today and they vanished within 1 hour. Their phones have been ringing off the hook for these things. Looks like Garmin in trouble...... 





pittcanna said:


> I will find out tonight, the element is in shipment to me.


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## atm0013

Migen21 said:


> I'm not positive, but I would be surprised of the mapping function of the phone worked without data. I don't think the phone can store offline maps.
> 
> To get a definitive answer, I would suggest sending an email the Wahoo and ask them.


Thank you for your answer, i'll try with wahoo as suggested.

Just to clarify a bit, this is possible for example with google maps. You can store a zone and use that zone offline to search an create a route (only for cars routes, at least in my zone)

I'm trying to decide which gps to buy after my old one starts to feel really outdated. In the past i gave up with garmin after several problems in different devices i had but I think this is almost a mandatory function if you like to ride in another countries, going to the alps, pyrinees or such kind of travels and you don't have data there.


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## Migen21

App and Firmware (and livetrack website) updates for Elemnt/Elemnt Bolt today


Adds a much improved live track function, along with some new privacy settings and a few bug fixes


ELEMNT Software Updates â€“ Wahoo Fitness Support




> *ELEMNT SOFTWARE UPDATES*
> 18 July 2017
> ELEMNT WF42-1507
> 
> 
> *ELEMNT LIVE TRACKING UPDATE. MORE DATA & PRIVACY CONTROLS*
> 
> 
> The Live Track site now shows more data including your breadcrumb trail, route, live ride data and charts.
> You can continue to share your permanent link, though we have introduced a new temporary link that will expire at the end of the day. Once expired, the link will no longer be able to track you.
> The link that is auto-posted to Facebook, Twitter and email is a temporary link that will expire at the end of the day.
> You can manually expire all your links (both permanent and temporary) as well as opt-out of being shown as a 'nearby rider' on other people's map page.
> Any previous links you have shared with your friends and family have now expired. You will need to share new links with them.
> 
> *OTHER*
> 
> 
> Fixed an issue where starting certain routes on KICKR would cause a 100% resistance command sent to KICKR
> Fix issue where the ELEMNT would auto-switch to the lap page if the lap page was disabled in the companion app
> Fix an issue where ELEMNT would forget your gear’s teeth-count configuration
> Improved translations
> Improve Strava Segment notifications so long Segment names properly resize to maintain readability


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## KleinMan

How do you get the bolt to upload a Strava ride to the Strava app? I linked the account in the bolt settings but after my ride tonight I don't see it on the app, only if I log into the Strava webpage account. 

Sent from my XT1254 using Tapatalk


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## Migen21

If your activity is on Strava's website, it's on your mobile app as well. They both use the same back end data.


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## KleinMan

Migen21 said:


> If your activity is on Strava's website, it's on your mobile app as well. They both use the same back end data.


here's what I submitted to Strava:

Hi,
I have two issues:

1. Been using the mobile app/android phone to log cycling rides and can view my rides and other friend's rides on the app, but my rides cannot be accessed when I log into my Strava web based account. There is no record of any rides after logging in.

2. just started using the Wahoo Bolt cycle computer and linked to my Strava account. This is being used to replace using my Strava mobile/android option above. Last night's ride was synced to my Strava account, but the ride cannot be seen in the Strava app. The only way I an see it is logging into the strava web version.

It's almost like I have two separate profiles. Is there a way to merge the above such that I can see all activity on the Strava app and web version?


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## Migen21

Big update for the Elemnt/Elemnt Bolt (and Mini I guess).

*ELEMNT*
https://support.wahoofitness.com/hc/en-us/articles/217285397-ELEMNT-Software-Updates

*ELEMNT BOLT*
https://support.wahoofitness.com/hc/en-us/articles/115000410550-ELEMNT-BOLT-Software-Updates



Elemnt Update said:


> *27 Nov 2017BOLT WB09-1815
> *
> *UPDATES*
> 
> Update BOLT to the latest maps via the map settings screen on the companion app
> Configure auto-upload on a 'per site' basis
> Choose to exclude zeros from the average power calculation
> Upload to the web4trainer share site
> Bug fixes and other improvements
> 
> *OTHER ELEMNT FIXES*
> 
> Improve accuracy of Auto lap Time triggers
> Fix issue where temperature data lost after a workout end
> Only write the sensors that are used to the FIT file
> Fix issue where planned interval repeating intervals are lumped together
> Fix issue where Strava goal appears for the wrong segment
> Data Field: when workout time >10hrs, don't show seconds
> Fix planned workout 10sec notifications or very short intervals
> Fix wheel circumference issue for Elite Direto
> Fix issues when performing 2nd spindown in same power cycle
> Fix incorrect durations on some planned workouts
> Planned Workout interval graph not showing unless workout is paused
> Planned Workouts - Graph doesn't scale as difficulty percentage is changed
> Planned Workouts - Laps created incorrectly after pause
> Planned Workouts - Interval notifications should appear on KICKR page during a Planned Workout
> Add support for web4trainer share site
> 
> *OTHER ANDROID COMPANION FIXES*
> 
> Now detects timezone/local changes while open
> Now able to rename custom page
> Shows 'This weeks' results
> Fix workout details lap arrows not shift graph
> Fix a GPX route import problem
> Fix issue where 2nd email sent after phone restart
> Show temperature in ride results
> Show better error for MINI offline workouts not able to share to Komoot (need locations)
> MINI climb results not displaying correctly
> Improve messaging around need for Location Services
> Fix missing notification for Android 8 Oreo
> Workout results for lap data shows the same value for average power, max power and normalized power
> Resetting HR zones is not resulting in the new HR zone data being sent to ELEMNT


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## MMsRepBike

Migen21 said:


> Big update for the Elemnt/Elemnt Bolt (and Mini I guess).


For those that don't read:


----------



## OldZaskar

Updated the Bolt this am and noticed two things:
1. Live Track works automatically now 
2. Ride did not upload to Strava, Ride with GPS, Training Peaks after ride.


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## Wetworks

OldZaskar said:


> Updated the Bolt this am and noticed two things:
> 1. Live Track works automatically now
> 2. Ride did not upload to Strava, Ride with GPS, Training Peaks after ride.


Did you re-authorize them with the unit?


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## OldZaskar

I did. Also tried updating again.


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## Wetworks

Synced my ride before the update. After I updated, I tried to toggle the Strava Live Segments button and got the error message that it wasn't available. I then deauthorized and reauthorized successfully. Tried the Live Segments, no go. If I ride tomorrow I'll see how my upload goes.

Also, anyone know where I can find the option to exclude 0s from the power results?


----------



## OldZaskar

On the app - with the Elemnt/Bolt powered on...
- Settings
- Scroll to "Ride"
- See option to toggle "INCLUDE ZEROS IN AVG POWER"

Leave it ON ;-)

Seriously, non-zero averaging power data is useless. If you ride 20 miles up and over a mountain - 10 up and 10 down, and you averaged 300 watts on the climb and coasted down, you averaged 150 watts for 20 miles. 

Non-zero the cadence. Keep the zeros for power.


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## Wetworks

Ride synced today with Strava, no issues. I did, however, have no alerts while riding for upcoming Strava segments. The segment page came up with the "Starred segments" message. Guess the ELEMNT has to resync, but there's no longer a manual option to force it.


----------



## Migen21

I had another app update this afternoon from the Google Play store - I haven't been home to check for new device firmware


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## Wetworks

No issues at all today on my ride. Guessing that I didn't give the ELEMNT enough time to sync segments before heading out yesterday.


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## RL7836

Wetworks said:


> Guess the ELEMNT has to resync, but there's no longer a manual option to force it.





Wetworks said:


> Guessing that I didn't give the ELEMNT enough time to sync segments before heading out yesterday.


Is there a way to know that the unit has sync'd? Leaving for a ride where I plan to put out significant effort on several segments & then finding out that the info isn't in there, would not be a positive. After doing my homework for a few months, I'm planning to purchase a Bolt over the holidays. I don't think this issue would push me to the Garmin 520 but I really don't like that Wahoo could have screwed up something that does matter to me.


----------



## Wetworks

RL7836 said:


> Is there a way to know that the unit has sync'd? Leaving for a ride where I plan to put out significant effort on several segments & then finding out that the info isn't in there, would not be a positive. After doing my homework for a few months, I'm planning to purchase a Bolt over the holidays. I don't think this issue would push me to the Garmin 520 but I really don't like that Wahoo could have screwed up something that does matter to me.


Nope, at least no obvious way to me. Hopefully they bring the option to manually sync back. Only other way I can think of is to upload a route from the companion app, that may force a sync.


----------



## fronesis

I’ve used my Bolt for about 3500 miles worth of rides, and today was the first day it crashed. Just froze solid about 40 miles into an 80 mile ride. After everything else failed, I had to hold the power button for LONG time to shut it down. When it rebooted it retrieved the ride up to the point it froze and then continued on.

I lost about 4 miles, but when it uploaded to Strava, Strava added those miles back. 

So overall not the end of the world, but I was starting to get used to the idea that the Wahoo device was rock solid stable, so it’s too bad that this new update may have changed that.


----------



## ceugene

My newish Bolt decided it didn’t want to communicate with my Vector 2 pedal yesterday after an auto-pause/coffee stop. It could still see both pedals in the info screen, both with “good” battery status, but both cadence and power were dropping out constantly. I had to reboot the Bolt to fix it. 

Anyone else have a prolonged, random sensor or ANT+ dropout like this? My Edge 520 never ever suffered from dropouts.


----------



## Migen21

I finally got a chance to use my bolt today. First time since the update.

Everything, including love segments worked fine. Just like before.


----------



## RL7836

Wetworks said:


> Nope, at least no obvious way to me. Hopefully they bring the option to manually sync back.


Since I was concerned about not having an option to manually sync, I asked a buddy who's been using a Bolt for a while. He said that it's been great both before & after the update & it still has the option to manually sync. Being confused, I emailed Wahoo support & they said the option is still there & they had no plan to remove it. Is there some way that we're discussing two different things?


----------



## Wetworks

RL7836 said:


> Since I was concerned about not having an option to manually sync, I asked a buddy who's been using a Bolt for a while. He said that it's been great both before & after the update & it still has the option to manually sync. Being confused, I emailed Wahoo support & they said the option is still there & they had no plan to remove it. Is there some way that we're discussing two different things?


I can manually sync if I upload a route. I do not see an actual option to sync on the E or in the app. Maybe *you* can shed some light on it for _*me*_, lol.


----------

