# still cant decide: opal vs. orca



## mlretina (Aug 22, 2006)

i still have a dilemma-- i am the 5'5'' 120 lb female rider-- tried a 48 orca-- when i stood up my knees were hitting the handlebars-- guess that's too small.

so i am going with the 51.

the opal is available right now at the bike shop-- a fair deal at 4400 with sram force.
the orca 51 is not available for 7-10days, will have dura ace, but at 4900 and not my favorite color.

so do people still think the opal is just as comfortable for 4hr rides?
also anybody tried the rolf wheels? would they be smoother than the mavics?


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## skepticman (Dec 25, 2005)

I have a 57cm Opal, and my only complaint is that the fork is a little too stiff. It's slightly punishing on rough roads, and riding for close to 3 hours makes my hands ache a bit. There are things that can be done to try to compensate, like running 90-100 psi in the tires, using thicker bar tape or thickly padded Spenco Ironman gloves, or using a carbon stem and bar.

In a smaller frame like a 51cm, you may not notice much of a difference in the frame stiffness between the Opal and Orca, particularly since you don't appear to be a large rider or a pro racer/sprinter who needs an ultra stiff frame. You should try to find a shop with an Orca to test ride, even if it's more than an hour drive away. I have not ridden the Orca, so I can't compare them.

You might also consider the LOOK 585 or 565, or maybe some titanium frames like Moots, Merlin or Litespeed if you want a bike that's comfortable on long rides.

Is there a reason you're in a hurry to buy a bike right away? You may want to wait until spring and test ride the new 2007 Orca or Diva when they're more widely available. There are photos of those bikes in this post.

http://forums.roadbikereview.com/showthread.php?p=750413#post750413

You should also test ride some bikes with Campy Record, Chorus or Centaur if you've only test ridden SRAM and Shimano equipped bikes. Personally, I prefer Chorus. You probably don't need Dura-Ace or Record unless you're racing or you just want the best and you can afford it.

Sorry if I haven't helped you much with your ongoing dilemma.


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## rollinrob (Dec 8, 2002)

what size stem was on the orca? You could alway increase the lenght and your problem could be gone!


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## BShow (Jun 30, 2006)

In a few months, the price of the SRAM Force group will most likely drop once the novelty wears off. Personally, I would either see if you can negotiate the price a bit on either bike, or wait. Make sure the frames are current models, because if they aren't, thats a big negotiating factor.


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## mlretina (Aug 22, 2006)

i think it was a shorter stem on that 48 that i tried. what is the range of possible stem lengths? and how would the longest stem increase the effective size of the bike--- to a 49-50 maybe? that is perhaps the perfect size for me.


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## orcanova (Aug 27, 2006)

I would buy from a shop where the salespeople know bike fit thoroughly and let then determine which frame size is right for you. It shoudln't be a guessing game by you because once you bought it you have to live with it

I am on the correct size frame for me , 57cm, and when I stand and sprint sometimes my knee grazes the head tube.

I have heard only good things about the Sram gruppos, and in fact they are lighter than Campy and Shimano. Are you looking at the '06 Orca's or the 07's? The 07's are completely redesigned and if you are looking at the '06 you shold be able to get a better deal on them since shops are trhyignto clear them out to bring new one's in.

Once you know your size and model that you want, you can even order it from a bike shop out of your area that is willling to give you a great deal and have it shipped. Just because someone spent the time with you doesn't mean youhave to buy from them if you can't get the right price from them.

Although I bought my Orca slightly used (2 months old) on ebay, I bought it from a bike shop manager halfway across the country who shipped it flawlessly.

Just for a point of price comparison, a local shop had the Orca with full dura ace gruppo and wheels for $4500.00. I've read of some peole who have gotten better deals than that. IF you get the Orca you should be able to get that price, at least. $4900.00 is too high unless it is the '07. That is full retail as you can see at www.orbea-usa.com This is what the '07 looks like:










Also, which Rolf wheels are you referring to? I ahve the Rolf Prima Elan Aero wheels and yes, they are a step up from the Dura Ace or Mavic Kysyrium wheels. They are extremely lightweigh and agile. Cmapagnolo Eurus wheels are sweet too: not quite as light as the Rolf's but very aero and sturdy and fast.


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## mlretina (Aug 22, 2006)

would like to have a new bike for the Moab Century, Oct. 5-7. also after test riding the opal and orca, i just can't get back on my aluminum Fuji-- but the 07 orca and diva are devastating!!!


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## dave99ag (Jul 26, 2005)

The new Orcas are very nice looking (I took those photos), but I'd probably test ride one because of the complete redesign. I believe they're stiffer than the older Orcas, but still not as stiff as the Opals.

We'll probably get one of the Divas for my wife once we hear a few more ride reports about them. They're offering the Diva in a 49 and 53. The seat angle is the main difference. The Diva is 74.5 versus the Orca's 73.7-73.2.


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## rollinrob (Dec 8, 2002)

mlretina said:


> i think it was a shorter stem on that 48 that i tried. what is the range of possible stem lengths? and how would the longest stem increase the effective size of the bike--- to a 49-50 maybe? that is perhaps the perfect size for me.


 At one point I had a 110 stem on my 48cm Orca. I took it off because I felt to streched out. I would imagine that you probalby had a 90cm stem on your test bike. The longer stem would give you more reach so you would not have your knees banging the handlebar. I still sometimes graze the handlebar with my knees on my bikes when I am climbinf out of the saddle on a steep hill.


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## BShow (Jun 30, 2006)

+1 for talking to a shop that can fit you properly so that you arent guessing what size you need.


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## orcanova (Aug 27, 2006)

dave99ag said:


> The new Orcas are very nice looking (I took those photos), but I'd probably test ride one because of the complete redesign. I believe they're stiffer than the older Orcas, but still not as stiff as the Opals.
> 
> We'll probably get one of the Divas for my wife once we hear a few more ride reports about them. They're offering the Diva in a 49 and 53. The seat angle is the main difference. The Diva is 74.5 versus the Orca's 73.7-73.2.


Thanks for posting the pix. Hope you didn't mind me reposting them here. If you have more I'd love to see more. Thanks


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## dave99ag (Jul 26, 2005)

No problem. That's all we took of the bikes at the expo. I should have taken more. There was bike porn everywhere there.


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## Corsaire (Jun 2, 2006)

I wouldn't get the Opal, that's a very, and I mean VERY stiff frame, I had to sell it, too rough for me.
Test the Orca or anyhting else more compliant.

Corsaire


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## fire262 (Aug 29, 2006)

I test road both: I ended up ordering a 2007 Opal yesterday due to the way it responded to climbs, and a standing sprint. It is a bit stiff but with the right wheels Mavic Ksyrium ES and ITM carbon stem and bar it make it a little more forgiving. That being said you will have to look at spending approx 4800 to 5000 for that style set up.


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## fabsroman (Jul 14, 2006)

If I were you, I wouldn't rush into any new bike purchase. I spent about 2 months researching every frame that I could possibly want (e.g., Colnago, DeRosa, Trek, Litespeed, Bianchi, Pinarello, Colnago, DeRosa in this order) and finally decided on the Colnago Cristallo. Granted, I didn't get to test ride any of them, but the big debate was between the Colnago, Bianchi, and Orbea, because I could get good deals on them, and the Bianchi and Colnago because I really wanted an Italian frame since I have been riding one for 20 years. After deciding on which frame I wanted, I had to figure out what size I needed because my current frame, bought while I was still growing, is too big for me at 55cm c to c. I asked a lot of guys on here and even went to a couple of websites where I could enter my measurements and they would tell me the correct size frame. Turns out that I need a 51 c to c or 53 c to t. The 50cm sloping Colnago Cristallo falls right in between those two measurements.

As mentioned above, the bike really needs to be fitted to you. Once I get the frame and install everything on it less the stem, I am going to take it to a LBS that is pretty good at bike fitting and I am going to let them fit me on it. Ways to adjust fit are seatpost height, stem length, stem height, saddle position, and crank length. I am not willing to negotiate on a 172.5mm crank, so that will be out.

For any bike to feel right, you have to be fitted to it correctly. Colnagos are made to have the rider's weight back over the rear wheel and up over the front wheel in order to handle well. Every bike is different. Even if you are set on the Orbea, find an LBS that will work with you on fitting the frame to you and make sure that you get the right size frame. When I was looking at Orbeas, I was getting different answers between the 51 and the 54, but when I went to look at them, I had no doubt in my mind that the 51 was going to be too small.

Also, as mentioned above, since you are so light, I cannot imagine that either the Orca or Opal will beat you up too much, and as also mentioned, unless you have some serious power for hill climbing and sprinting, you probably do not have to worry about the stiffness of the frame.

Shop around and get the best price possible. After figuring out which frame I was going to get and finding it at a decent price, I have spent almost a month trying to figure out what wheels I am going to use on the bike. I already have everything else figured out (i.e., 2007 Campy Record drivetrain and brakes, Chris King headset, FSA seatpost, stem, and handlebars, and Selle Italia SLK gel saddle). Guess I haven't figured out the water bottle cages yet, but that is a small thing.

Take your time and make sure you are happy with the fit and the cost of the bike.


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## orcanova (Aug 27, 2006)

^ WTF? That was the most rambling piece of drivel I have ever read. You spent all this time resarching them and never test rode one of them?

Frame fork stem crank arm length Italian steel carbon size 55m light heavy male female new used...whatever...

She's about to pony up and but a freakin sweet bike...stop making white noise, sir...

Either you have been drinking bourbon or I have but it isi now making my head spin. Stop I tell you. Stop!!!!


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## fabsroman (Jul 14, 2006)

Did you read the entire post. If so, it must have been somewhat interesting. If I wasn't making any sense, you would have stopped before the end. Oh yeah, I can do without the cussing, even if it is abbreviated.

I don't drink so I haven't been drinking bourbon either, but I have been up working late on an opinion letter (i.e., legal research and writing). I am an attorney/CPA and write for a living, so the "white noise" comes easy. LOL

"She's about to pony up and but a freakin sweet bike", so she should make sure it is what she wants and that she will enjoy it for years to come. Every bike that she has mentioned in every post of hers has been a sweet bike, even if it wasn't an Orbea. The amount of money she is going to spend makes this an important decision, unless she can afford to spend more money on a different frame should she not like the Orbea, which was my approach on the Colnago. If I don't like it, it will be going on e-bay and I'll be ordering a new frame, but I doubt that will be the case.

Finding a shop around me that carries Colnagos or Bianchis was nearly impossible. Every Bianchi dealer listed on Bianchi's website in my area no longer carried the bikes and the only one I could find that carried Colnago within an hour drive of me I hate with a passion (That is a story that is about 20 years old and would really have you bored to tears and cussing up a storm). The best I could do for Bianchi was a shop in Philadelphia that was over 2 hours away. I found one shop that carries Orbea near me, but they didn't have a 51 or 54 Opal or Orca in stock. That was about a month ago. Earlier this week, I got a call from them saying that they just got some in. Too late, I already ordered the Colnago.

To sum up my above post, she should take her time and find a shop that can fit her correctly and a bike that she really loves. Me, I have been riding for quite some time, raced pretty hard between the ages of 14 and 18, and kind of know what I am looking for in a frame because I am thinking about getting back into racing. I need something super stiff because I am a sprinter and a hard climber when the body allows me to be. I have no problem catching a dump truck, a school bus, an 18 wheeler, or the local mail truck after stopping at a light. Best draft this year so far has been 46 mph off of a small postal truck, but she turned off before we could really get going. Longest draft was about 3 miles at 38 mph off a dump truck, and that one ended because a police officer pulled up in the lane next to me and started waving his finger at me. I just got back into seriously riding this month and have 350 miles in on 11 rides. The first ride was horrible (i.e., 11 miles in a little less than an hour with a break during the ride and I felt like I was going to die). Now, I can ride easily in the 20's on the flats and average a little over 18 mph on rolling hills and around 17 mph on my worst climbing ride that includes a 800 foot climb. Longest of the 11rides was 40 miles at just a tad under 18 mph. I just always have to push myself on the road bike. The MTB is a different story.

Now, if I was just going to go out and ride centuries, I would be looking for something a little more comfortable.

Oh yeah, one other thing I didn't like about the Orbeas was that their wheel selection wasn't the greatest for a complete bike. If I am spending that kind of money, I should get the wheels I want, which are almost as important as the frame. I don't like Mavic and the reviews on Rolf weren't all that good.

I'll stop here so that you will only need to take a single Advil for the headache and you will not have to cuss too much more. Okay, back to finishing up my letter.


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## orcanova (Aug 27, 2006)

fabsroman said:


> Did you read the entire post. If so, it must have been somewhat interesting. If I wasn't making any sense, you would have stopped before the end. Oh yeah, I can do without the cussing, even if it is abbreviated.
> 
> I don't drink so I haven't been drinking bourbon either, but I have been up working late on an opinion letter (i.e., legal research and writing). I am an attorney/CPA and write for a living, so the "white noise" comes easy. LOL
> 
> ...



Stop! Stop, I tell you! Stop!

Damn you are verbose...!


I do drink and I have been drinking bourbon, so yes, point well taken. It was probably me rather than you.

But good Lord, this encyclopediac history of your drafing off of postal trucks,,,slightly off-topic, sir. Well, in fact she probably isn't even reading our mutual biatch-slapping drivel, but she has narrowed her choices to two models of Orbeas...not Colnagos or Beyonces or DeRosas.

Orbeas come in limited sizes, so people make up for that with stem, crank adjustments, but they buy them primarily because it makes their ass look cuter (at least that is why I bought mine).

You seem to be a rather technical lad who puts a lot of information in one paragraph, and although that is quite noble, I bet that is not what she is looking for. I think she is looking for the sexy ass thing that I was looking for when I bought my Orbea. Not to mention she is under a little time pressure to ride an event she has been dreaming about.

If you lived in my town, I would drag you away from that accountant/CPA desk and buy you a couple brewskies, and get your mind off all that technical stuff: Attorney white noise fella!

That is all...


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## fabsroman (Jul 14, 2006)

Okay, I had to put the opinion letter down for a little while because it was starting to kill me.

I'd take you up on the offer of a drink, but about the stiffest drink I take is a Mountain Dew. Seen way too many family members get into trouble from drinking such that I never wanted to drink. Plus, now I see way too many of my clients get into trouble from drinking that I tend to stay away from it.

As far as her bike is concerned, I am sure that she would look just fine riding any $4,500 to $5,000 bike, whether it is an Orbea, Colnago, Bianchi, DeRosa, Look, etc. Trust me, no guy would be looking at the bike if there was something better to look at. The Colnago was my personal choice, and she did happen to ride a Dream HP before deciding on the Orbea.

Yes, now her big debate is whether to get the Orca or the Opal, what size to get it in, which model year to purchase, which wheels to get on it, which color to get, how much to pay for it, and how quickly she can get it. Trust me, I went through all those questions when I was looking at the Orbeas. My one and only point is that she should take her time. Best case scenario would be for her to get a 2006 Orca and Opal and a 2007 Orca and Opal fit to her in the 48 and the 51 so that she can see which fits her best and which ride she likes the best. After she determined which fit her best and felt most comfortable, she could try some different wheels to see which she liked the best. Then, maybe try out a couple of different colors to see which one she is the fastest on. LOL but seriously. However, I doubt a bike shop would be willing to spend that much time with her even though she is spending that kind of money.

Now, I am off to draft a will for a client that is seeking a divorce. He is so pissed off at his wife that he wants to change his will before they even start the divorce proceedings. The remainder of the opinion letter will have to wait until the sun comes up.


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## orcanova (Aug 27, 2006)

I agree I wouldn't let the upcoming ride rush her into a purchase unless she is really set on the Opal or Orca. However, if she is lusing for the '07 Orca, I would wait until they are out and test ride one...


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## fabsroman (Jul 14, 2006)

Agreed.

I just saw Colnago's 2007 lineup, and I think my next frame is going to be the Extreme Power in the STIT color scheme (i.e., I'm American but both of my parents are from Italy). If I hadn't already bought the Cristallo, I would have bought that one. Oh well, it gives me an excuse to buy another next year.


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## orcanova (Aug 27, 2006)

fabsroman said:


> Agreed.
> 
> I just saw Colnago's 2007 lineup, and I think my next frame is going to be the Extreme Power in the STIT color scheme (i.e., I'm American but both of my parents are from Italy). If I hadn't already bought the Cristallo, I would have bought that one. Oh well, it gives me an excuse to buy another next year.


Definitely nice window dressing for the ass...


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## fabsroman (Jul 14, 2006)

Isn't it beautiful. I guess it is also a coincidence that most of the compenents on the Extreme Power STIT bike are exactly what I want on my Cristallo, with the exception of the seat, handlebar tape color, handlebars, and stem. I am trying to find Fulcrum Racing 1 tubulars at an affordable price so that my wife doesn't kill me.

By the way, that picture became my desktop background right after I saw it on Colnago's website.


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## Scuzzo (Jul 21, 2006)

yep its a bike,,


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## b987654 (Aug 18, 2005)

i am 5'10 150 pound male and have an opal. the only place (for me) that took some getting used to in terms of stiffness was my feet and shins. The bb is really stiff, and there is more pedal feedback. the big complaint about the stiffness is the front end. the bars and fork are stif,f but i don't have a lot of weight on my hands (women normaly have less too) so no big. And last i have a softer saddle(arione) so not to rough there.


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## chearr (Jul 17, 2006)

I have an 05' Orca and switch to an 06' Opal (both 48cm). iam 5'5" 150lbs. Had the Orca for 1 yr. Been riding the Opal for 2.5 months. I use ROlf vigor wheelset with Grandprix 4000 tires and pump to 125psi and its fairly comfortable. the Opal is very stiff ; on my training ride i use rolf vector pro and continental 2000 tires @ 120psi and it can be a little rough on back for two hrs. I believe the tires & wheels made a lot of difference. the Orca will be a little smoother. I like to sprint so the Opal was what i want.


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## litespeedchick (Sep 9, 2003)

I'm 5'2" and ride a 51cm(Litespeed). I can't imagine anyone at your height riding a 48. Are Orbeas sized that large? I am tossing around the idea of a Diva just because it's so gorgeous, but I can't understand why it only comes in 2 sizes.


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## fabsroman (Jul 14, 2006)

It depends on how your Litespeed is sized, but a 51 still sounds big for your height. I am 5' 9" with a 31" inseam and a 51cm traditional frame, measured c-c, is what I am supposed to ride. However, if the frame is measured from c-t like Colnagos, then I am supposed to ride a 53cm traditional frame. Now, I have a 50cm sloping Colnago frame that fits me just right with the lowering of a 300mm seatpost an inch, but it is the equivalient of a 54cm c-t Colnago traditional frame.

Sometimes, frame size can be dependant on a lot of things. For instance, my bars are at least 3 inches below my seat, so that is a factor. Reach is also a factor. If somebody has short arms, they need a smaller top tube which means a smaller frame. If somebody has really long arms, they need a larger frame with a longer top tube.

For me, almost everything works out just fine with a 50 sloping Colnago. With an Orbea, I would be riding either a 51cm sloping or 54cm sloping, but I didn't really try to fit myself on that bike becuase I decided on the Colnago.

20 years ago, bikes were a lot easier because everything was a traditional size. The only difference was the measurement of c-c or c-t.


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## rrchea (Sep 16, 2002)

to Litespeedchick: i believe a 51cm litespeed is too big for you. I used to have a 2002 litespeed Vortex also a 51cm that seem OK. Litespeed measure their frame from center of BB to top of the top-tube, so you 51cm is really a 50cm frame. Orbea Orca/Opal have strange shape to them so My measure on the Orca/Opal: BB to top of top-tube is 44.5cm, BB to top of seatclamp colar is 50cm, top-tube lenght is 50cm. I believe the 48 is the best size for me. i am 5'5" with inseam of 28.5 in. and just slightly shorter arm than the average. I ride the 48cm with a 120cm stem & 98 cm reach on handlebar. I am not a racer and like the comfort position of a bigger bike,but i have tried my friend 51cm Orca and that is too long of top tube and i would have to lower my seatpost would be right against the seatclamp. Right now the height of the saddle to the top of top-tube on my 48cm is 4.5 inches and there is only about 2 inches of seatpost showing. I know gal usually will have longer leg than guy,but if you are only 5'2" you need a 30-31inch inseam to ride a 51cm ORca anything less and you would not be able to lower the seat low enough for you to reach the pedals. I am not trying to put you down or anything. I am only trying to help i would hate to see you ride a bike that is the wrong size for you. the right size bike are soo much more FUN and COMFORTABLE to ride. If you have any other questions i will be happy to answer.

Rick




Rick


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## rrchea (Sep 16, 2002)

litespeedchick said:


> I'm 5'2" and ride a 51cm(Litespeed). I can't imagine anyone at your height riding a 48. Are Orbeas sized that large? I am tossing around the idea of a Diva just because it's so gorgeous, but I can't understand why it only comes in 2 sizes.



to Litespeedchick: i believe a 51cm litespeed is too big for you. I used to have a 2002 litespeed Vortex also a 51cm that seem OK. Litespeed measure their frame from center of BB to top of the top-tube, so you 51cm is really a 50cm frame. Orbea Orca/Opal have strange shape to them so My measure on the Orca/Opal: BB to top of top-tube is 44.5cm, BB to top of seatclamp colar is 50cm, top-tube lenght is 50cm. I believe the 48 is the best size for me. i am 5'5" with inseam of 28.5 in. and just slightly shorter arm than the average. I ride the 48cm with a 120cm stem & 98 cm reach on handlebar. I am not a racer and like the comfort position of a bigger bike,but i have tried my friend 51cm Orca and that is too long of top tube and i would have to lower my seatpost would be right against the seatclamp. Right now the height of the saddle to the top of top-tube on my 48cm is 4.5 inches and there is only about 2 inches of seatpost showing. I know gal usually will have longer leg than guy,but if you are only 5'2" you need a 30-31inch inseam to ride a 51cm ORca anything less and you would not be able to lower the seat low enough for you to reach the pedals. I am only trying to help i would hate to see you ride a bike that is the wrong size for you. the right size bike are soo much more FUN and COMFORTABLE to ride. If you have any other questions i will be happy to answer.

Rick


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