# Cortisone



## Bluenote (Oct 28, 2012)

Riders at Lotto allegedly doped with cortisone

Gilbert denies allegations of cortisone use at Lotto | Cycling News

Cortisone got a bit of a discussion earlier, so I'll try and google a few articles.


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## Bluenote (Oct 28, 2012)

The David Strock case. He sued USA cycling claiming as a junior he was doped with cortisone. This allegedly led to him becoming immunosupressed and quite sick. 

Note that David Strock is now an MD. 

Strock Speaks


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## Bluenote (Oct 28, 2012)

A later article on the Strock case. Others join the lawsuit. Chris Carmichael reportedly settles. USA Cycling tells its side if the story (sort if).

Six years later, Strock case comes to court

Note, there is no 'University of Indiana' I think they mean Indiana University.


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## Bluenote (Oct 28, 2012)

The conclusion to the Strock case.

Two settle steroids lawsuits with USA Cycling, coach - ESPN


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## Bluenote (Oct 28, 2012)

Bernard Thevenet, who rode from 1970 to 1980ish is reported to have suffered liver damage from his use of cortisone. 

The Story of the Tour De France: 1965-2007 - Bill McGann, Carol McGann - Google Books


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## Local Hero (Jul 8, 2010)

Fascinating. I look forward to reading the articles. I understand how cortisone can aid recovery. 

On a related, personal note, I once spoke to a nutritionist who believed my diet unnecessarily raised my cortisol levels. Her thoughts were that if I altered a few things I may beneficially lower my levels, that I would have more energy, sleep better, etc. 

Obviously I'm ignorant on cortisone, cortisols, and how all of this effects the body. Can anyone explain why it's good in some situations and bad in others?


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## Bluenote (Oct 28, 2012)

An excerpt from Willy Voet's book "Breaking the Chain." He gives his take on cortisone - short term you feel good, long term it damages the body. It's buried further down in the article. 

www.cyclingnews.com news and analysis


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## Bluenote (Oct 28, 2012)

Here is another good article. It runs through the basics - the accusations against Gilbert, anecdotal effects of cortisone, the use of TEUs to cover up doping with cortisone.

Oh. And intentionally roughing up the boys. Naturally, right?

Report: Gilbert dismissive of cortisone claims against him relating to his time with Lotto team


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## spade2you (May 12, 2009)

Bluenote said:


> The David Strock case. He sued USA cycling claiming as a junior he was doped with cortisone. This allegedly led to him becoming immunosupressed and quite sick.
> 
> Note that David Strock is now an MD.
> 
> Strock Speaks


Immunosuppression _might_ be part of one of the things I do for a living. It would take massive doses of corticosteroids to fully suppress someone's immune system and/or long term use. That's kinda how they treated the early generation of organ transplant patients. 



Local Hero said:


> Fascinating. I look forward to reading the articles. I understand how cortisone can aid recovery.
> 
> On a related, personal note, I once spoke to a nutritionist who believed my diet unnecessarily raised my cortisol levels. Her thoughts were that if I altered a few things I may beneficially lower my levels, that I would have more energy, sleep better, etc.
> 
> Obviously I'm ignorant on cortisone, cortisols, and how all of this effects the body. Can anyone explain why it's good in some situations and bad in others?


I'm still doubtful that corticosteroids are beneficial to performance, other than saddle sores and swollen joints. Perhaps they might keep someone slightly injured in the game.

I'm under the impression that the confession of cortisone lately was a diversion from what they were really using. :aureola:


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## Bluenote (Oct 28, 2012)

spade2you said:


> I'm still doubtful that corticosteroids are beneficial to performance, other than saddle sores and swollen joints. Perhaps they might keep someone slightly injured in the game.
> 
> I'm under the impression that the confession of cortisone lately was a diversion from what they were really using. :aureola:


Well, I think all doping is bad for you - the health risks, the long term health complications. 

But I disagree with your above assertion. Riders have been confessing to using cortisone since the 70s (Thevenet). They've even been caught red handed with the stuff (Willy Voet) and confessed to the whole kit and caboodle (Jesus Manzano). 

Thevenet didn't have access to EPO or transfusions - so what would he be lying about? 

Voet got caught with it - he (Festina) clearly was using it.

Manzano confessed to blood doping, cortisone, all kinds of crap. What exactly did he leave out of the confession? Sacrificing live kittens on a Satanic altar? Ditto 'The Chicken.'

Michael Rasmussen confesses to 12 years of doping | Cycling News

So cyclists have been doping with cortisone from at least the 70s to 2007- but suddenly have decided its worthless and have now stopped?


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## Bluenote (Oct 28, 2012)

Gilbert's team Doctor tells his side.

Though I think there is a mistake in the article. I thought the Change Cycling Now Clean Teams wanted cortisone users held out of competition for 8 days, not the UCI.

Lotto doctor denies cortisone doping charges | Cycling News


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## spade2you (May 12, 2009)

Bluenote said:


> Well, I think all doping is bad for you - the health risks, the long term health complications.
> 
> But I disagree with your above assertion. Riders have been confessing to using cortisone since the 70s (Thevenet). They've even been caught red handed with the stuff (Willy Voet) and confessed to the whole kit and caboodle (Jesus Manzano).
> 
> ...


Like the last thread, there's a difference between anabolic steroids like testosterone and catabolic corticosteroids like hydrocortisone and prednisone. I think we all understand how anabolic steroids, blood transfusions, and EPO works. 

I honestly have no clue how they'd boost performance other than keeping the walking wounded in the game. Usually patients getting a transfusion will take Tylenol and Benadryl to minimize the chance of an allergic reaction. A corticosteroid could be used for this, I suppose. 

Hell, prednisone and hydrocortisone are generally within arms reach for me. No thanks.


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## Bluenote (Oct 28, 2012)

spade2you said:


> Like the last thread, there's a difference between anabolic steroids like testosterone and catabolic corticosteroids like hydrocortisone and prednisone. I think we all understand how anabolic steroids, blood transfusions, and EPO works.
> 
> I honestly have no clue how they'd boost performance other than keeping the walking wounded in the game. Usually patients getting a transfusion will take Tylenol and Benadryl to minimize the chance of an allergic reaction. A corticosteroid could be used for this, I suppose.
> 
> Hell, prednisone and hydrocortisone are generally within arms reach for me. No thanks.


First off, I don't have a position one way or another as to cortisone actually enhancing performance. I think all doping is dangerous, health wise. 

But, Just like what was said in the other thread - if riders, dope Doctors _believe _ it works, they'll use it. 

cortisone - it's come up in doping news quite a bit. So I tried to pull together a few articles trying to get different sides of the story. (Riders, court cases, admissions , denials). Clearly, guys like Strock and Manzano feel like doping hurt their health, not exactly a testament to performance enhancement. Yet it also seemed to be widely used in the peloton. 

Your latest post is an apples to oranges argument. You said that riders weren't really using cortisone, they were just confessing to it as a straw man. Straw man for what, exactly? It may well be worthless and quite dangerous, but there is pretty good evidence that dopers are actually using it.


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## 88 rex (Mar 18, 2008)

Bluenote said:


> First off, I don't have a position one way or another as to cortisone actually enhancing performance. I think all doping is dangerous, health wise.
> 
> .................
> 
> Yet it also seemed to be widely used in the peloton.


I think your use of the word "doping" is overused and, to a point, mis-used. Certain drugs can still be healthy, yet banned. 

...............

Cortisone may be widely used in the peloton, but it is widely used in the general public as well. Whether injections or pills, I have trouble finding a serious problem with cortisone use.


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## Bluenote (Oct 28, 2012)

88 rex said:


> I think your use of the word "doping" is overused and, to a point, mis-used. Certain drugs can still be healthy, yet banned.
> 
> ...............
> 
> Cortisone may be widely used in the peloton, but it is widely used in the general public as well. Whether injections or pills, I have trouble finding a serious problem with cortisone use.


To me doping is using drugs to get an advantage at sport. This is different from using medicine to treat a legit injury. Riders didn't have TEUs for most of what was described above.

I have to admit, criticizing someone for using the word doping on a doping forum, to describe doping seems a bit rich.


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## 88 rex (Mar 18, 2008)

spade2you said:


> I'm still doubtful that corticosteroids are beneficial to performance, other than saddle sores and swollen joints. Perhaps they might keep someone slightly injured in the game.




Here's a document from FIFA: http://www.fifa.com/mm/document/afd...e in football -blessing or curse,kgr_1514.pdf

There was this little tidbit in a cyclingnews forum: Benefits of Cortisone while Time Trialing ??? - Page 3 - CyclingNews Forum

They seemed to think the shift from glycogen usage to fat/amino acid consumption, and thus preservation of glycogen, was beneficial.


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## 88 rex (Mar 18, 2008)

Bluenote said:


> To me doping is using drugs to get an advantage at sport. This is different from using medicine to treat a legit injury. Riders didn't have TEUs for most of what was described above.
> 
> I have to admit, criticizing someone for using the word doping on a doping forum, to describe doping seems a bit rich.


Well, the term "doping" would imply the use of a drug or product that enhances performance. Not all banned substances are performance enhancing, and not all performance enhancers are banned.


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## Bluenote (Oct 28, 2012)

Seems like you are arguing both that cortisone isn't performance enhancing and that it is.


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## Bluenote (Oct 28, 2012)

88 rex said:


> Well, the term "doping" would imply the use of a drug or product that enhances performance. Not all banned substances are performance enhancing, and not all performance enhancers are banned.


To me, doping implies using a banned substance without medical exemption. 

I don't see much good in hairsplitting on the usage of the word 'doping.'


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## 88 rex (Mar 18, 2008)

Bluenote said:


> Seems like you are arguing both that cortisone isn't performance enhancing and that it is.




I'm not arguing anything. I'm trying to figure out why it is widely used as a "performance enhancer." Google searches don't reveal anything beyond what is generally known about cortisone, except for that one little snippet in a cycling forum......which I would chalk up to speculation. 

Does preservation of glycogen storage allow for a performance enhancement at the expenditure of fats and amino acids? I would guess "no," but I don't know of any studies to determine this "enhancement." Which only brings us back to it being an anti-inflammatory and pain reducer. I imagine most professional cyclsists endure a lot of inflammation and would think it would be easy to get a dr's note for such treatments. 

Again, I'm having a hard time seeing why it is used so widely as a "performance enhancer."


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## Local Hero (Jul 8, 2010)

And maybe that's why Armstrong's backdated note was given a pass. 

As I said in another thread, while I was in undergrad I faced crippling IT Band problems and ultimately took a cortisone shot to the knee. The difference was night and day. If a pro cyclist experienced what I felt I think it would be inhumane to withhold treatment. That said, I think we're all missing something given that we're all struggling to come up with real performance-enhancing use for cortisone outside of therapeutic use. 

I don't really buy the argument that it's popular due to the tradition of prescribing it or placebo effects. Maybe it's just a rad antiinflamatory.


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## spade2you (May 12, 2009)

I trust you weren't shattering any records the following days. 

I was once offered a shot for IT Band problems related to running. Decided to simply stop running and keep cycling.


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## 88 rex (Mar 18, 2008)

spade2you said:


> I was once offered a shot for IT Band problems related to running. Decided to simply stop running and keep cycling.




.....and this is how I got into cycling. Chronic achilles/bursitis issues and multiple cortisone shots with fears of rupturing the achilles due to those cortisone shots. I really think that in my case the cortisone shots were a waste of time.


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## spade2you (May 12, 2009)

88 rex said:


> .....and this is how I got into cycling. Chronic achilles/bursitis issues and multiple cortisone shots with fears of rupturing the achilles due to those cortisone shots. I really think that in my case the cortisone shots were a waste of time.


I initially was gunning for the tri route. I was decent all around. Got my mile to 4:46 and eventually was able to run 3 in 15min flat. Decent swimmer. It was almost depressing to hang up running while still able to run a sub 5 minute mile. Fortunately, cycling has been good to me. 

I mostly decided against a steroid shot because I wasn't terribly keen on running, but also because I had enough friends who only had temporary relief.


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## aclinjury (Sep 12, 2011)

good read


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## Bluenote (Oct 28, 2012)

Like posters above, I've come to a dead end on understanding how cortisone might be performance enhancing. I don't have the resources (access to subscription medical publishing stuff) or the background to review that type of publishing, anyhow. 

The best I got were anecdotes from riders claiming they got a boost and then collapse (see Voet's comments, above). 

The only other thing I got was an NY times piece. If you wade down to the bottom, it claims that cortisone has a pain killing effect - seemingly not related to its anti inflammatory effect.

IF this is true, and IF doping methods (maybe different doses than the studies, maybe pills versus shots) get a similar effect (a tenuous extrapolation at best) - I could see how it would be performance enhancing. Ride like hell, feel no pain, without the 'high' / impairment that opioid painkillers have. 

Do cortisone shots actually make things worse? - NYTimes.com


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