# Integrated headset and durability issues



## lorenzo (Mar 30, 2006)

Hi everybody,
At the risk of shining a light on a subject much often discussed, I dare ask, are there any durability issues associated with the use of integrated headset in, for example, 2004 and -05 litespeed titanium frames?? The question arises from the fact that, being aware of the inherent durability of titanium frames, and the fact that I would like to think of my Tuscany as a life-long investement, I wonder whether the integrated headset on this frame might come to be the weakest link in the chain. It has been discussed many times before that one of the main disvadvantages of integrated heasets is the added pressure on the frame brought about by the elimination of the bearing cups and by using the frame to replace those.We know that LS is back to using traditional headset on its frames and that the move to integrated headsets in 2003 (or earlier?)) was mostly due to the pressures of the marketplace. In other words, barring terminal damage due to crashes or mishandling, is the headset/headtube combination where I would first expect structural damage to occur in a LS Ti fra with integrated headset?

Thanks for your input.


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## Mark McM (Jun 18, 2005)

*Longevity of integrated headsets*



lorenzo said:


> Hi everybody,
> At the risk of shining a light on a subject much often discussed, I dare ask, are there any durability issues associated with the use of integrated headset in, for example, 2004 and -05 litespeed titanium frames?? The question arises from the fact that, being aware of the inherent durability of titanium frames, and the fact that I would like to think of my Tuscany as a life-long investement, I wonder whether the integrated headset on this frame might come to be the weakest link in the chain. It has been discussed many times before that one of the main disvadvantages of integrated heasets is the added pressure on the frame brought about by the elimination of the bearing cups and by using the frame to replace those.We know that LS is back to using traditional headset on its frames and that the move to integrated headsets in 2003 (or earlier?)) was mostly due to the pressures of the marketplace. In other words, barring terminal damage due to crashes or mishandling, is the headset/headtube combination where I would first expect structural damage to occur in a LS Ti fra with integrated headset?
> 
> Thanks for your input.


There is still a question mark on the longevity of integrated headsets. But keep in mind that there are two factors in longevity - durability and obselecense. Unlike traditional headsets, there are few standards on integrated headsets - different headset manufacturers use different specs, and not all are interchangeable. So even if your frame is durable enough to last a lifetime, and even if integrated headsets prove to be just as durable as traditional headsets, you could be out of luck if the headset that fits your frame is no longer being produced when your original headset finally wears out.

For reasons of replacement parts availability, it has gotten so that the idea of a "frame to last a lifetime" is not really a practical reality in many cases. Sure, your titanium MTB frame from 20 years may be just as good as when new, but where are you going to find a replacement for the 60mm travel 1" suspension fork? Does Merlin still supply different length replacement spindles for their pressed-bearing bottom brackets (not to mention their incompatibility with splined or external bearing cranks)?


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## lorenzo (Mar 30, 2006)

*Integrated headsets on LS frames*



Mark McM said:


> There is still a question mark on the longevity of integrated headsets. But keep in mind that there are two factors in longevity - durability and obselecense. Unlike traditional headsets, there are few standards on integrated headsets - different headset manufacturers use different specs, and not all are interchangeable. So even if your frame is durable enough to last a lifetime, and even if integrated headsets prove to be just as durable as traditional headsets, you could be out of luck if the headset that fits your frame is no longer being produced when your original headset finally wears out.
> 
> For reasons of replacement parts availability, it has gotten so that the idea of a "frame to last a lifetime" is not really a practical reality in many cases. Sure, your titanium MTB frame from 20 years may be just as good as when new, but where are you going to find a replacement for the 60mm travel 1" suspension fork? Does Merlin still supply different length replacement spindles for their pressed-bearing bottom brackets (not to mention their incompatibility with splined or external bearing cranks)?


Hi Mark,
Thanks for your answer. I see your point. But still, as you mention, integrated headsets are still kind of in their test phase, at least as far as longevity is concerned.
Partly, the question was also prompted by Litespeed's move back to traditional headsets in 2006. Was is it again market pressure? Or was it that they found that using integrated headsets is not the way to go? 
Thus far, I have not heard of any Ti frame, be it from Litespeed or any other manufacturer, to suffer structural headtube damage as a consequence of the use of integrated headsets.


Lorenzo.


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## powerdan5 (Apr 27, 2006)

lorenzo said:


> Hi Mark,
> Thanks for your answer. I see your point. But still, as you mention, integrated headsets are still kind of in their test phase, at least as far as longevity is concerned.
> Partly, the question was also prompted by Litespeed's move back to traditional headsets in 2006. Was is it again market pressure? Or was it that they found that using integrated headsets is not the way to go?
> Thus far, I have not heard of any Ti frame, be it from Litespeed or any other manufacturer, to suffer structural headtube damage as a consequence of the use of integrated headsets.
> ...


Lorenzo - I had the same question a few months ago and Mark McM (who I happen to think is brilliant - I've read a few posts he's had on this site and he chimes in with some really good stuff) said this:



Mark McM said:


> Making a titanium (or steel) frame for an integrated headset adds both cost and weight, because you need to to flare out the top and bottom of the head tube while making sure there is enough material thickness to hold the integrated bearing seat. Making a head tube for a standard headset is cheaper, easier, and weighs less, because you basically just have to cut the ends of the tube square and ream them to the proper diameter (in addition, you have to make sure the end of the headset have thick enough walls bear the headset loads, but this is easy as well). Also, traditional headsets don't use proprietary standards, so there is complete interchangeability between different brands. Integrated headsets really make no sense at all for titanium and steel frames.
> 
> I'm pretty sure that the only reason Litespeed adopted integrated headsets in the first place was because of market demand - and that the reason they dropped them again was also largely due to market demand.


So in my case, I think the jury is out. It adds weight and cost, but for performance, well, I can claim my 2005 Ultimate with the integrated headset is one pretty fast bike, tracks like a champ, and is nimble as a cat. Ask me again in 5 years if I have trouble finding a replacement parts or getting it serviced which I dont think i will. Until then, I wouldn't kick the Litespeed out of bed for eating crackers.


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## Dave Hickey (Jan 27, 2002)

Whether you choose internal or external is really a non issue. Back in the day when you used loose ball bearings, individual bearing would wear groves in a headset and you'd have to replace the cups. Since headsets today use cartridge bearings, that isn't a problem.


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## lorenzo (Mar 30, 2006)

powerdan5 said:


> Lorenzo - I had the same question a few months ago and Mark McM (who I happen to think is brilliant - I've read a few posts he's had on this site and he chimes in with some really good stuff) said this:
> 
> 
> 
> So in my case, I think the jury is out. It adds weight and cost, but for performance, well, I can claim my 2005 Ultimate with the integrated headset is one pretty fast bike, tracks like a champ, and is nimble as a cat. Ask me again in 5 years if I have trouble finding a replacement parts or getting it serviced which I dont think i will. Until then, I wouldn't kick the Litespeed out of bed for eating crackers.



Hi Powerdan,
Thanks for the info. It seems that Mark has definetely a point about the use of integrated headsets in Ti frames. As I mentioned, it was LS move back to traditional headsets that raised a flag in my case....it all kind of clicks together now. Much like you, I hope to have no maintenance issues in the future due to spare parts availability.

Enjoy your ride!


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