# Are Comfier Race Bikes and Gravel Bikes Going to Replace the Classic Endurance Bike?



## Rashadabd (Sep 17, 2011)

I am not sure I agree with the premise 100%, but after testing the new Specialized Roubaix, I think that might be the direction we are heading in. That bike feels very much like a comfy Tarmac. It's pretty light, stiff as any race bike, more aero than the new Tarmac, but has these comfort features that make it worthy of long days in the saddle. It sounds like BMC has accomplished similar goals with the new Roadmachine. Canyon has done the same with the Endurace. 

When you combine these with the versatility found in the latest generation of gravel bikes like the new Cannondale and Santa Cruz Stigmata, you have to ask what advantages the classic endurance bikes have over any of these? Can they still compete? It seems like they may be being pushed to the wayside. What do you folks think of this trend? Good or bad for the majority of us?

https://www.velonews.com/2019/06/news/first-ride-bmcs-updated-roadmachine_495101

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-_DogZ28VEA

https://bikerumor.com/2019/06/20/ca...lls-a-new-frame-with-kingpin-rear-suspension/


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## duriel (Oct 10, 2013)

I just go a new canyon, so I voted yes!


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## Srode (Aug 19, 2012)

For race bikes targeting road use, the frame geometry will be the difference between race and endurance, more aggressive.


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## Finx (Oct 19, 2017)

I think it's just a sign that engineering a frame design are evolving with technology. 

They learn how to keep the high performance aspects (stiff chassis, minimal lateral flex, etc...) and still provide compliance (seat post/tube flex, vibration damping, etc..). 

This is actually not really new. My 2014 BMC Gran Fondo (GF-01) has one of the stiffest chassis' of any bike I've ridden (super beefy bottom bracket, chain stays and down tube), but has excellent compliance (super thin seat stays, 9 degree top tube and a seat post that flexes down and to the rear). Canyon managed a very similar feel on the Endurace, but without such a drastic top tube slope.


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## old_fuji (Mar 16, 2009)

We swung so far the other direction there for a while... my wife's 2010 Cannondale CAAD something-or-other was built during the peak of the race-inspired designs, and while she loves her bike, she'd love to get it to ride a little more cushy. Unfortunately, the frame literally will not fit a larger tire than a 23, and there are very few options for a tire that size that's compliant and comfy to ride these days.

I, for one, am glad to see a return to normalcy.


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## duriel (Oct 10, 2013)

Srode said:


> For race bikes targeting road use, the frame geometry will be the difference between race and endurance, more aggressive.


My first ride experience is that you will not notice much of a change, I was unsure of the tires on the new bike, but by the end of the ride, I was cutting corners just like last week. Granted I'm not el Contrador, but I usually make up a LOT of time in the corners against everyone I ride with.


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## Oxtox (Aug 16, 2006)

don't buy bikes 'off the rack,' so don't care...


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## Rashadabd (Sep 17, 2011)

Oxtox said:


> don't buy bikes 'off the rack,' so don't care...


I have never really understood comments like this. Are we supposed to applaud you, try to convince you to buy “off the rack” bikes, or something else?

Anywho, I am pretty much with Finx on this. I think these make sense on lots of levels for most riders.


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## bradkay (Nov 5, 2013)

As long as older riders are out there buying road bikes, the endurance riding position will stick around. Not everyone can handle a more aggressive, aero position. I had to put a 40 degree short stem on my gravel bike to get it to approximate the riding position of my Domane. Making endurance bikes with disc brakes means that they can use at least 32mm tires, so they are not going to be completely phased out, as few companies are making a gravel bike with the more relaxed position.


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## Rashadabd (Sep 17, 2011)

bradkay said:


> As long as older riders are out there buying road bikes, the endurance riding position will stick around. Not everyone can handle a more aggressive, aero position. I had to put a 40 degree short stem on my gravel bike to get it to approximate the riding position of my Domane. Making endurance bikes with disc brakes means that they can use at least 32mm tires, so they are not going to be completely phased out, as few companies are making a gravel bike with the more relaxed position.


Agree, some of these new bikes have endurance-esque geometry though. It may not be as extreme as 5-10 years ago, but they have taller head tubes and shorter top tubes than that brand’s dedicated race bikes. My guess is the new Roubaix and Endurace are fairly close to your Domane geometry wise, which is what I used to ride as well. 

What’s changed is they are more aero, lighter, and more race bike like now. I could see a time in the next few years where folks looking for a chill comfy pure endurance bike have to shop in the gravel sector, because everything else will be pretty race oriented. Not sure if that is a good or bad thing.


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## duriel (Oct 10, 2013)

I was looking at alternatives for a while for a new bike & got the endurace. I don't see why one couldn't get some big rims and run gravel tires on them for those days. 
We really only have a couple of 'gravel' roads around here, so I'm not going to do that. Our gravel roads are more like rock gardens for bikes.


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## Rashadabd (Sep 17, 2011)

duriel said:


> I was looking at alternatives for a while for a new bike & got the endurace. I don't see why one couldn't get some big rims and run gravel tires on them for those days.
> We really only have a couple of 'gravel' roads around here, so I'm not going to do that. Our gravel roads are more like rock gardens for bikes.


True, a lot of these bikes have clearance for at least 32mm tires. I rode a lot of gravel on my Domane with 32s. You just can’t let yourself end up in the really sharp and difficult Dirty Kanza type stuff or real singletrack. You want at least a 40mm tire for that kind of terrain. Most of the modern endurance bikes don’t fit tires that size.


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## velodog (Sep 26, 2007)

The Darren by Baum: An adjustable bike for finding the ideal gravel geometry


https://cyclingtips.com/2019/06/the...e-bike-for-finding-the-ideal-gravel-geometry/


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## Marc (Jan 23, 2005)

velodog said:


> The Darren by Baum: An adjustable bike for finding the ideal gravel geometry
> 
> 
> https://cyclingtips.com/2019/06/the...e-bike-for-finding-the-ideal-gravel-geometry/


The Carver I built 2 years back had PWM sliders. Cool bits of kit that make a variable bike a thing.

Strange part for Baum...they produced a bike with post-mount brakes and conventional RD hanger in 2019. PWM makes/sells sliders in flat-mount and direct-mount.


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## Jay Strongbow (May 8, 2010)

Rashadabd said:


> I am not sure I agree with the premise 100%, but after testing the new Specialized Roubaix, I think that might be the direction we are heading in. That bike feels very much like a comfy Tarmac. It's pretty light, stiff as any race bike, more aero than the new Tarmac, but has these comfort features that make it worthy of long days in the saddle. It sounds like BMC has accomplished similar goals with the new Roadmachine. Canyon has done the same with the Endurace.
> 
> When you combine these with the versatility found in the latest generation of gravel bikes like the new Cannondale and Santa Cruz Stigmata, you have to ask what advantages the classic endurance bikes have over any of these? Can they still compete? It seems like they may be being pushed to the wayside. What do you folks think of this trend? Good or bad for the majority of us?
> 
> ...


I may not understand but I think you are just getting caught up in semantics.

What you and/or a company might call a "Comfier Race Bikes" I and another company might call a Racier Classic Endurance bike. 

In the end bikes are bikes and what works for someone is what works for someone. What they are called might be replaced with calling them something else but that doesn't really mean anything.


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## Rashadabd (Sep 17, 2011)

Jay Strongbow said:


> I may not understand but I think you are just getting caught up in semantics.
> 
> What you and/or a company might call a "Comfier Race Bikes" I and another company might call a Racier Classic Endurance bike.
> 
> In the end bikes are bikes and what works for someone is what works for someone. What they are called might be replaced with calling them something else but that doesn't really mean anything.


The article on the Roadmachine kind of explains where I was going, but it all comes down to geometry and tire clearance. It seems like the classic endurance bike with 25-32mm tire clearance has a lot of competition these days. There are now a number of bikes with race geometry that are coming with a couple of comfort features and 30-32mm of tire clearance and gravel bikes with classic endurance geometry but room for 40-45mm tires and 650b wheels. It seems like lots of riders are gravitating toward those two styles and that the classic endurance bike is getting lost in the shuffle.


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## duriel (Oct 10, 2013)

What is a 'classic endurance' bike?


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## rideit (Feb 8, 2005)

duriel said:


> What is a 'classic endurance' bike?


A Defy, Roubaix, or something like that.
Classic doesn’t _have_ to be old...


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## Rashadabd (Sep 17, 2011)

Two new bikes that really touch on where we are:

1. The new Cervelo Aspero- aero, race oriented, but with clearance for huge tires.
https://pelotonmagazine.com/gear/first-ride-the-cervelo-aspero-gives-gravel-a-fast-new-look/

2. The new Trek Domane, aero, endurance fit, compliance features, but now with gravel type tire clearance. 
https://www.trekbikes.com/us/en_US/...23553029&_bta_c=gyqnqjrxpk9tmkamznz15z0p9o2s4

https://pelotonmagazine.com/gear/first-ride-the-new-trek-domane/


I personally think these are the endurance bikes of now and the future. No more 32mm tire clearance and rim brakes.


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## duriel (Oct 10, 2013)

Rashadabd said:


> No more 32mm tire clearance and rim brakes.


What race bike with rim brakes could ever take a tire over 25's without jumping through a hoop?
The future is the future, there is no pushing the past asside, it's more like running it over.


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## Rashadabd (Sep 17, 2011)

duriel said:


> What race bike with rim brakes could ever take a tire over 25's without jumping through a hoop?
> The future is the future, there is no pushing the past asside, it's more like running it over.


It’s true man. I recently bought a 2016 or 2017 Focus Cayo Disc that’s relatively light with race oriented geometry. The thing fits 30s. That used to be a hard core endurance bike and this model was raced by a pro conti team.


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## duriel (Oct 10, 2013)

Rashadabd said:


> It’s true man. I recently bought a 2016 or 2017 Focus Cayo Disc that’s relatively light with race oriented geometry. The thing fits 30s. That used to be a hard core endurance bike and this model was raced by a pro conti team.


That Disc bike has rim brakes?


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## Rashadabd (Sep 17, 2011)

duriel said:


> That Disc bike has rim brakes?


No, it has disc brakes of course. I was just agreeing with point you made.


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