# Welded-on Rack Brazeons



## lx93 (Jun 14, 2007)

Dilemna:
Current quick-release rack, when loaded down w/ only 25 pounds, makes bike (1997 Bianchi Campione d'Italia) unstable, has already caused 1 accident.

Possible solution:
Get a local welding shop to weld on brazeons so that I can mount a more stable rack, as the load eventually will get up to 40 lbs., w/ change of clothes, textbook, etc.

Anybody have any experience in having this done? If so, what were the results?

Or is this just such a bad idea that nobody has even tried it?


----------



## ethebull (May 30, 2007)

What is the frame material?

Steel frames, no problem, but rack-mounts and eyelets would be brazed not welded. I'm guessing your frame is aluminum?


----------



## FatTireFred (Jan 31, 2005)

you might try p-clips to start... either as a temp fix or semi-permanent. you might not have heel clearance


----------



## lx93 (Jun 14, 2007)

#1) 
The frame material is cro-moly steel.

#2) 
What is a p-clip?


----------



## Kerry Irons (Feb 25, 2002)

*Maybe not*



ethebull said:


> Steel frames, no problem, but rack-mounts and eyelets would be brazed not welded.


Actually, a skilled welder could TIG weld the eyelets on a bike frame, but I would not take a typical bike frame to "a local welder." They would not be used to the very thin walls of a bike frame and could easily do some serious damage. On top of that, the frame will need to be repainted after any welding or brazing. The OP might be better advised to consider buying an actual touring bike, where the rack mounts are properly designed and placed, and the geometry is optimized for carrying a touring load. Just saying.


----------



## blackhat (Jan 2, 2003)

lx93 said:


> #1)
> The frame material is cro-moly steel.
> 
> #2)
> What is a p-clip?



these are p clips, they do the same job as the seatstay braze on but aren't permanent. youll need some eyelets on the dropouts too.


----------



## lx93 (Jun 14, 2007)

blackhat said:


> these are p clips, they do the same job as the seatstay braze on but aren't permanent. youll need some eyelets on the dropouts too.


Thanx for the pic, it is a big help in understanding the lingo.

1) Would the eyelets on the dropouts be attached the same way?

2) If the reason I'm looking into doing this is that the Quick-Release beam rack makes handling really unstable (not a good thing in urban traffic), would putting 40 lbs. onto a rack that's attached via p-clips be as stable as one that was attached w/ brazeons from the factory?


----------



## lx93 (Jun 14, 2007)

*Touring Bike = Long Headtube, Long Wheelbase + what else?*



Kerry Irons said:


> Actually, a skilled welder could TIG weld the eyelets on a bike frame, but I would not take a typical bike frame to "a local welder." They would not be used to the very thin walls of a bike frame and could easily do some serious damage. On top of that, the frame will need to be repainted after any welding or brazing. The OP might be better advised to consider buying an actual touring bike, where the rack mounts are properly designed and placed, and the geometry is optimized for carrying a touring load. Just saying.


You're just saying, and I'm just listening- w/ open ears to what sounds like a well-informed opinion.

My ideal choice would be a Cannondale T800/T2000, Trek 520/Portland, Bianchi Volpe or Jamis Aurora (further suggestions welcome). 

As of May 2010, when I (if all goes well) pass the NCLEX exam for nurses, funds will not be an issue. But right now, I'm just a college student taking 20 credits while only working 4 hrs/week, so...

My bike, a 1997 Bianchi Campione d'Italia, seems to have geometry that could lend itself to a touring bike. I have the original catalog, w/ the specs, but am having trouble comparing it to 2007 spec's. 

From what I can tell, the frame is 57, w/ a top tube length of 565, and a wheelbase of 992. I can't seem to find a headset angle.

But from what we DO know, how would this fare as a touring bike compared to the above models?


----------



## Kerry Irons (Feb 25, 2002)

*Following on*



lx93 said:


> You're just saying, and I'm just listening- w/ open ears to what sounds like a well-informed opinion.
> 
> My ideal choice would be a Cannondale T800/T2000, Trek 520/Portland, Bianchi Volpe or Jamis Aurora (further suggestions welcome).
> 
> ...


Go to the Adventure Cycling Association web site (adventurecycling.org) for some reviews on touring bikes. They do an annual touring bike issue in their magazine and can offer some good ideas.

Your bike is a mid-line road racing bike, with a wheelbase that most would consider too short for touring. Your heels would likely hit panniers mounted to a rear rack. That is not to say that people haven't ridden such bikes on extended tours, it's just that this bike is not a "built for purpose" touring bike.

You would likely not have a problem putting 40 lbs on a regular rack attached with clips. They are not as good as braze-ons, but they should work find for what you're trying to accomplish. Your clip-on rack is the problem; placed too high and likely not really designed for the load you're putting on it.

Another thing to consider, for relatively short commutes, would be to use a back pack or messenger bag to carry some of the load, splitting the weight between the rack and you.


----------



## Lifelover (Jul 8, 2004)

lx93 said:


> Thanx for the pic, it is a big help in understanding the lingo.
> 
> 1) Would the eyelets on the dropouts be attached the same way?
> 
> 2) If the reason I'm looking into doing this is that the Quick-Release beam rack makes handling really unstable (not a good thing in urban traffic), would putting 40 lbs. onto a rack that's attached via p-clips be as stable as one that was attached w/ brazeons from the factory?



Using sluggly (or snuggly if you can't get it sluggly) attached P-clips should give the same ride characteristics as braze-ons.

I think the problem you are having with the clip on rack is related to a center of gravity issue with where the load attaches not how the load attaches.

IMO having mounts brazed on after the fact is more trouble than it's worth.

here is a pic of a p clamp in use from an old thread


----------



## StageHand (Dec 27, 2002)

lx93 said:


> Thanx for the pic, it is a big help in understanding the lingo.
> 
> 1) Would the eyelets on the dropouts be attached the same way?
> 
> 2) If the reason I'm looking into doing this is that the Quick-Release beam rack makes handling really unstable (not a good thing in urban traffic), would putting 40 lbs. onto a rack that's attached via p-clips be as stable as one that was attached w/ brazeons from the factory?


You can attach the lower legs with p-clamps, but over time, the rubber on the clamps will wear out and start to dig in to the paint--especially with heavier loads (like 40 lbs). I take it your frame does not have any eyelets at the rear dropout? If you want to spend some money on a rack (rather than frame mods), you can get a rack that attaches at the rear skewer. Old Man Mountain makes some nice ones.


----------



## ethebull (May 30, 2007)

Adding braze-on bits to older steel bikes is no big deal. I have a road frame that I converted to a 26" wheeled beater by adding cantilever bosses, and I have a road fixed gear that I had rack mounts installed. As far as having to repaint the frame, I never did. The shop cleaned up the flux and brazing area and applied a primer coat. I don't know if I'd carry forty pounds of gear on a non-touring frame though, due to instablity. What the heck are you carrying? 40lbs is a lot!


----------



## ukiahb (Jan 26, 2003)

lx93 said:


> Dilemna:
> Current quick-release rack, when loaded down w/ only 25 pounds, makes bike (1997 Bianchi Campione d'Italia) unstable, has already caused 1 accident.
> 
> Possible solution:
> ...



if the fork has eylets you could use a front rack, and if it does not you could change forks. if you want to carry a lot of weight up front, low rider panniers are the safe way to do it. FWIW Jannd makes some nice heavy duty front racks, am using one on my touring bike, it has a platform on top and pannier mounts...


----------



## lx93 (Jun 14, 2007)

ethebull said:


> I don't know if I'd carry forty pounds of gear on a non-touring frame though, due to instablity. What the heck are you carrying? 40lbs is a lot!


4-5 textbooks at 5 pounds each, change of clothes, other stuff, etc.


----------



## lx93 (Jun 14, 2007)

ukiahb said:


> if the fork has eylets you could use a front rack, and if it does not you could change forks. if you want to carry a lot of weight up front, low rider panniers are the safe way to do it. FWIW Jannd makes some nice heavy duty front racks, am using one on my touring bike, it has a platform on top and pannier mounts...


No eyelets on the front. 

Changing the fork doesn't make sense from a financial standpoint, I'd rather just buy a $700-1,000-something touring bike. (I don't do any of the work on the bike myself, I'm a mechancial klutz).

What kind of touring bike do you have? Love it or hate it? Anything you would have ordered differently? (components, thinner tires, etc.)


----------



## lx93 (Jun 14, 2007)

Lifelover said:


> Using sluggly attached P-clips should give the same ride characteristics as braze-ons.


I understand that frame components bonded with slugs offer superior roadbuzz absorption, but that they also don't tend to last, birds try to eat them, and that PETA tends to come after you.


----------



## Barabaika (Jan 15, 2007)

You should lower the center of gravity by using the panniers.


----------



## endure26 (Jan 27, 2005)

Try an Old Man Mountain rack. They have a model that mounts via the skewer (their own I think) and fit a wide range of bikes. In this years Great Divide Race (GDR) it seemed like the OMM racks were the only thing surviving the trek.

http://www.oldmanmountain.com/

:thumbsup:


----------

