# Help choosing between sub-$1000 entry level bikes



## 13thcyclist (Jan 23, 2011)

Greetings, I made another thread asking if I should go used on Craigs or new at LBS. Since I have chosen to go the LBS route, I thought it'd be a better idea to create a new thread specifically for deciding upon LBS bikes instead of responding to the old one. Sorry if it clutters up the forum a bit.

Some FYI stats: I live on *Oahu* ; *5'11"~ 6"* height; *$810* soft budget, *$1000* hard budget (aka how much more my parents will help pay :blush2: ); *budget needs to factor gear I still have to buy*= shoes, pedals, jersey+shorts, bottle cages+bottles, maybe a computer? (using RunKeeper app on iPhone currently), saddlebag, emergency kit, bell?? :crazy: et al; been fitted for *56-58cm* frames (for Specialized & Jamis models below)

Anyway, here are the choices so far:

Jamis Ventura Sport -- On sale for $550, MSRP is $650

*Sold at *Bikewerx*, which is the closest shop to me. However, they have been the least helpful as far as fitting (just the basic saddle adjustment/'do you have one inch of clearance') and seem to cater more to the skaters/BMXers as the Jamis is the only road model they have in stock. And they only have one location on the island, with the other shops having at least two locations or more; something I have to consider as I will be leaving home for UH Manoa within the year. 

As well, on my test ride, it felt much more 'bumpy' on some bad places compared to the Allez's I tested, but on good roads it handled decently. Still, this is the cheapest one I have found.

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Specialized Allez Sport compact -- $810 w/ military discount, $720 w/ Tradewinds Cycling Team membership** ($900 MSRP)

Specialized Allez Elite Compact -- $1044 military discount, $928 Tradewinds Cycling Team membership** ($1160 MSRP)

**This shop features 10% discount for the military, and a 20% discount for Tradewinds Cycling Team members (not a member yet, but signed up today & hopefully will be able to get in). Discounts do not stack, unfortunately :cryin: 

*Both are sold at *The Bike Shop, Hawaii*; they are the Specialized dealer here. It is at this bike shop where I received the best customer service and advice. The staff at the locations I went to (Aiea & Honolulu) really do care about getting you the best bike for your money and are very knowledgeable about their products. Both salesmen at the stores recommend I get the Allez Elite because of the Tiagra shifters. However, I am very reluctant to hit the $1,000 cap since I have to consider buying other gear as listed above.

What I was thinking of would be to get the Allez Sport, which has a Tiagra RD, Sora everything else. Then later when I finally start to get sick of Sora shifters/they break down, I can simply buy some new Tiagra shifters (which will most likely have dropped in price by that time). Is this possible? Or would the drivetrain still need to be overhauled anyway despite the Tiagra RD in order to install Tiagra shifters?

Otherwise, should I just jump for the Allez Elite if I can beg to my parents convincingly?  I test rode the Elite yesterday and the Sport today, and Sora is really not as bad as I thought. Didn't get to ride on the drops much though, so that may be it. But I feel that I can easily adapt to Sora shifters if I had to go that route.

Overall, I am biased towards this shop and seems the best option to me, value-and-service-wise (good discounts, good staff)

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Giant Defy 3 -- Clearance sale for $674.98 (MSRP $800)

*At *McCully Bike*. I have never been here yet, though I am planning to check it out tomorrow. Any opinions? I am considering this bike because it has a relaxed geo similar to the Jamis, which I think would help me in the MTB->roadie transition. Elsewise, the other bikes I've listed are a better value.


I'll list more bikes & shops as I find them


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## seacoaster (May 9, 2010)

I read your other thread, and I think you are making the right decision to go with the LBS that is offering the best service. As far as the accessories are concerned, I agree with PJ that all you need is a helmet and shorts (plus a pump and a spare tube), and the need for shorts depends upon how far you ride. I routinely ride my hybrid in regular shorts for 20 miles and am quite comfortable. In my younger years I would ride my road bike much greater distances in regular shorts and cotton t-shirts, but the padded shorts and non-absorbent jerseys are a big improvement.

If I had your budget constraints, I would ride in sneakers and platform pedals with toe clips. I rode thousands of miles with platforms and loosely set toe clips. I’m riding clipless on my road bike now, but IMO they are grossly overrated. I also ride my hybrid with platform pedals (no toe clips).

Get a bike that’s good enough so that you don’t feel the need to upgrade, as it’s much less expensive in the long run to only buy things once.


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## seacoaster (May 9, 2010)

One more thought – wider 25 mm tires at lower pressure will give you a better ride than 23 mm tires at higher pressure. When I bought a new road bike this past year the LBS swapped the standard 23 mm tires with 25 mm tires for the price difference between the two.


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## scottzj (Oct 4, 2010)

Well I went to our LBS and found that I really loved the Felt bikes esp for the entry level ones. In fact I too got the military discount and since I bought new from them, they gave me free sizing (duh), free set up, and 15% off of all my extra parts and gear. Since then I have put over 3k miles on the bike and already looking for a new carbon for race season. The addiction will drive you nuts and to the poor house if you dont watch it haha. Good luck on the bike and oh I was fitted for a 61cm for felt and 58cm for cannondale, as I am 6'3.


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## PJ352 (Dec 5, 2007)

At least thus far, from what you've offered you can pretty much cross the Jamis and that LBS off your list. The Specialized dealer clearly offers the support and service you need, and has the product that you seem to prefer - again, thus far.

I think you should test ride the Giant Defy for the reasons you mentioned, but be aware that it's spec'd below the bikes you're considering. It's equipped with Shimano's 2300 (8 speed) group, which is a step below the Sora group (9 speed) on the Allez Sport. As you know, the Elite is Tiagra equipped (9 speed).

One thing you may want to ask the Spec dealer is if they have or can get the Secteur. It has relaxed geo similar to the Defy, but (obviously) is at the preferred bike shop, and that means something.

Regarding your thoughts of getting a Sora equipped bike and (down the road) converting to Tiagra, IMO you'd be better of getting the Elite now. The Tiagra shifters are not likely to substantially drop in price, so paying the current $200~ difference now will be cheaper in the long run. 

Also, there are several differences between the Sport and Elite that go beyond just the shifters. Both the Elites frame and fork are upgraded, (E5 alu frame and tapered fork) along with a better Shimano crankset. All in all, the Elite is well worth the extra $200.

Lastly, I agree with seacoaster on the 'essentials'. For now, concentrate on getting the right bike for you, but set aside $100~ for 'accessories'.


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## dgeesaman (Jun 9, 2010)

I like your options with the Specialized Allez's. The LBS support is very valuable and your point about upgrading components is valid. There is plenty of perfectly good Tiagra stuff being sold as other riders upgrade to 105 and Ultegra parts.

Definitely don't read too deeply into the harshness of the ride if you're comparing bikes of similar geometry and similar frame construction. Tire type and pressure have a much greater effect. So does fit, as improper fit will direct the load of your body weight in an uncomfortable manner.


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## old_fuji (Mar 16, 2009)

Chalk up another vote for the Allez Elite. The Tiagra group is a little more comfortable and intuitive to use than Sora because it's got the same action as the higher-end Shimano stuff.


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## 13thcyclist (Jan 23, 2011)

I think I found a winner here:

Giant Defy 2 -- On sale for $879, normally $1099

*McCully Bike. I checked them out today (couldn't go earlier this week cause of sinusitus) and they are as friendly and helpful as The Bike Shop. Only problem is they only have one store, but that shouldn't be much of a problem since I will be moving downtown (close to where they are located) to dorm a few months from now.

Regardless, at $880 for a FULL Tiagra drivetrain, this is the best value I've seen yet. Other shops say they start at $1000 for Tiagra, so this bike is definitely a strong contender. Test rode it as well, obviously, and shifting is a sure improvement over Sora.

But my brothers are saying they are willing to chip in some more for a slightly nicer bike since it will be my birthday present; although no more than $1300~$1500. Would it be worth it to get an upgraded gruppo of Shimano 105? Isn't it simply a lighter, more durable version of Tiagra?


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## dgeesaman (Jun 9, 2010)

13thcyclist said:


> I think I found a winner here:
> 
> Giant Defy 2 -- On sale for $879, normally $1099
> 
> ...


Looks like a decent value.

IMHO the upgrade to 105 is also worth something. It means more to the casual rider than than moving from the 105 to Ultegra, Ultegra to Dura-Ace. Also is 105 is compatible with the Ultegra and Dura-Ace groups which means many options for spare parts. You also get the same single-lever shifting mechanism as Ultegra and Dura-Ace.

If you've already budgeted for good quality pedals, shoes, shorts, and you can swing the 105, I say go for it. If you don't have a lot of room for these accessories then put their generosity towards that instead of the component upgrade.


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## wim (Feb 28, 2005)

dgeesaman said:


> Also 105 is compatible with the Ultegra and Dura-Ace groups which means many options for spare parts. You also get the same single-lever shifting mechanism as Ultegra and Dura-Ace.


Perhaps you're thinking of Sora? Tiagra has the same dual-lever shifting arrangement than 105, Ultegra and Dura-Ace and is as "compatible" as 105 would be. The OP also needs to be aware that many bikes advertised as "105" do not come with the 105 crank, but a cheaper and often non-Shimano substitute. Full Tiagra is a good deal, IMO.


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## PJ352 (Dec 5, 2007)

wim said:


> Perhaps you're thinking of Sora? Tiagra has the same dual-lever shifting arrangement than 105, Ultegra and Dura-Ace and is as "compatible" as 105 would be. The OP also needs to be aware that many bikes advertised as "105" do not come with the 105 crank, but a cheaper and often non-Shimano substitute.* Full Tiagra is a good deal, IMO*.


I agree. IMO the 'biggest' difference between Tiagra and 105 is an added cog - 9 spd versus 10, and IME the 'real world' difference isn't that great. Beyond that, the differences are in finish and weight. Both groups are durable and function well when set up correctly.

Assuming the Defy fits well, I vote to stay with the lower priced bike for now. Anyone telling you to spring for 105 to avoid 'upgraditis' is just plain BS'ing you. If you stick with cycling, inevitably you WILL upgrade to that 'next' bike, and before that you'll be looking to upgrade your OEM wheelset.


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## wim (Feb 28, 2005)

PJ352 said:


> I agree. IMO the 'biggest' difference between Tiagra and 105 is an added cog - 9 spd versus 10,


Ah yes, I forgot about that. So my "compatibility" comment above is in error when it comes to those brake-shifters. But really, that's a non-issue. As PJ352 said, you will be on the next bike sooner or later if you stick with the sport long enough. And 9-speed even has a small advantage: a 9-speed chain is more robust and not quite as finicky when it comes to removing/adding links than a 10-speed chain.


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## terbennett (Apr 1, 2006)

wim said:


> Ah yes, I forgot about that. So my "compatibility" comment above is in error when it comes to those brake-shifters. But really, that's a non-issue. As PJ352 said, you will be on the next bike sooner or later if you stick with the sport long enough. And 9-speed even has a small advantage: a 9-speed chain is more robust and not quite as finicky when it comes to removing/adding links than a 10-speed chain.


+1.... I have two bikes with 10 speed rears and one with 9 speed rear. The 9 speed's chain lasts longer- alot longer. I have to change the 10 speed chain every 2000-2500 miles. My 9 speed bike has the chain replaced every 7500 miles.


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## 13thcyclist (Jan 23, 2011)

Thank you so much for all of your help guys. I went out tonight for my final decision and am now the proud owner of a *Giant Defy 2*! It is one flippin sweet looking ride, can't wait to try it out (can't go out now cause it's night and the roads are wet from rain  )

For $880.00 with a full Tiagra groupset, I think I made the right decision. Thank god I shopped around and didn't just settle for a used bike or that Jamis Ventura Sport!

Anyway I got a few questions to ask:
1. There's this substance on the chain that leaves a sticky residue on my hands when I touch it. Is this lube or do I need to relube the chain? (All I have here is Triflow)

2. I didn't really look around for shoes and just impulse bought some Serfas SSTM Trax MTB shoes with the bike. I plan to use them with Shimano PD-M324 pedals. I chose MTB shoes because you can actually walk in them and I don't think I will be riding long enough/be racing for road shoes to matter. Is this a bad course of action for pedals/shoes?

3. Where can I get some jerseys/bibs cheaply online? Or is it more important to shop local so I can make sure the stuff fits?


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## dgeesaman (Jun 9, 2010)

I also started with a set of those SPD pedals and a basic set of recessed-cleat walkable shoes.

Ultimately I decided they were not for me because the shoe / pedal would make my feet sore after about 1-1/2 hours on the bike. For shorter rides they were fine but for longer rides I was not comfortable. I don't think this is the case for everyone, just sayin'.

Looks like a nice ride, I like the clean colors and graphics. I'm guessing the stuff on the chain is preservative which is a mix of wax and oil. If it bothers you any solvent should remove it. I wouldn't worry about it unless you notice it picking up a lot of dirt on your rides. 

Don't forget to get a picture of yourself standing by the bike followed by a legible close-up shot of the serial number on your cell phone camera, and record these again elsewhere. The cell phone camera pics come in very handy if you ever have to report it as stolen.


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## PJ352 (Dec 5, 2007)

13thcyclist said:


> Thank you so much for all of your help guys. I went out tonight for my final decision and am now the proud owner of a *Giant Defy 2*! It is one flippin sweet looking ride, can't wait to try it out (can't go out now cause it's night and the roads are wet from rain  )
> 
> For $880.00 with a full Tiagra groupset, I think I made the right decision. Thank god I shopped around and didn't just settle for a used bike or that Jamis Ventura Sport!
> 
> ...


Congrats on the new bike... _good_ choice!! :thumbsup: 

To answer your questions, JMO but I'd use ProLink to degrease/ lube the chain. Since it'll break down the 'goo' that some manufacturers apply, there's no need to clean the chain before applying this lube.

Given your criteria, I think your choice of pedal system is fine. Shoe preference being as personal as helmets and saddles, only time will tell if they're the right choice for you. 

Re: your last question, as long as you know your sizes, IME shopping for jerseys/ shorts/ bibs online isn't a problem. Performance Bike has some moderately priced, qood quality offerings.


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## TomH (Oct 6, 2008)

Put the triflow far far away so you're never temped to use it on your bike! 

I use prolink to de-goo chains too. Works well.


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## 13thcyclist (Jan 23, 2011)

TomH said:


> Put the triflow far far away so you're never temped to use it on your bike!
> 
> I use prolink to de-goo chains too. Works well.


Hmm, why is it a bad idea to use Triflow for lube? That's what the shop nearby recommended to me during my days on the mountain bike.


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## AndrwSwitch (May 28, 2009)

I use tri-flow everywhere but the chain. Finding a good chain lube is a little tricky - it's exposed to a lot of stuff kicked up by the wheels, so you don't want something too sticky, but it needs to be sticky enough to actually stay on the chain. I used Pedro's Road Rage for a while, but it got pretty messy. Trying something new now, but haven't formed an opinion. It's important to try to keep the chain clean-ish. I keep a rag on the rack where I keep my bikes, and give the chain a quick wipe after every ride. I think it extends the life of my chains considerably, especially since I'm too lazy to take them off to clean.

If you start experiencing cleat pain with your current shoe/pedal system, a racier MTB shoe will probably take care of it. It varies by brand, but many manufacturers' MTB shoes are just road shoes with a tread. So you should be able to find a pair with a very, very stiff sole if you need to. The ones you bought are probably fairly flexy, but whatever. It's not going to be a problem until you start riding higher mileage.


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## TomH (Oct 6, 2008)

Triflow makes a mess.. black gunky mess! I dont think cables should be lubed, it just tends to mix with dirt and cause more problems than a good quality dry cable and liner. 

For pivots and stuff, a drop of chain lube works excellent. Everything else gets grease. Im sure triflow is good for moving parts thats not a chain, but so is chainlube. Just one less bottle of stuff you need to keep on hand.

I ride in very very stiff soled MTB shoes. The better quality mtb shoes these days are basically road shoes with a different cleat. Nothing wrong with a good mtb shoe, but you dont want a floppy soled shoe. You'll probably find yourself not walking much anyway.


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