# Whoa!!!!



## NorCalBiker (Jul 10, 2006)

Be very carefull out there. There's some motorcycle riders that hate us.

http://www.bayarearidersforum.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=173297


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## singlespeed.org (Feb 14, 2006)

Interesting, I have often been more concerned when I hear a motorcycle coming up behind me because they often pass closer to me than cars do. I had thought that because they are smaller (and not sitting 6 feet from their right side view mirror as a car driver is), they just felt comfortable with where there right side is and how close they can safely pass. Now I realize that some of these folks are buzzing cyclists on purpose. Scary. 

I don't believe what some of these guys are saying about buzzing cyclists who are not sticking to the right. I do ride as far right as possible (though this will have me on the right side of the lane if there is no shoulder or the shoulder is covered with litter), and I get buzzed.

Definitely makes me more strongly feel that a 3 foot law like those progressive states (slight sarcasm here) of OK, AZ, and UT is needed here in CA. That would make buzzing (whether on purpose or not) illegal. See http://www.bikeleague.org/news/newsletter/enews_052206.html#A for info.


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## NorCalBiker (Jul 10, 2006)

Here's one of the member on that forum have to say about us cyclist.




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Originally posted by rsrider 
On the back roads in my area, which are crawling with wine *****s and bike ****, it is rare that the bicyclists are on the right side of the road where they're suppose to be. I buzz those limp dick mofo's every chance I get. I fooking hate them.

Squash me, I don't care. I'm sick of those pricks rideing in the middle of the road on blind corners and riding in packs that take up the whole lane. They're begging for a farm kid in a 4X4 to turn them into sploog, and I won't give a **** when it happens. 
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I would like to know who this guy is so I can run him over with my Suburban.


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## [email protected] (Sep 23, 2005)

Here's one such hater... oh look... he left contact info!

I hope you're not referring to the select few spandex nazis who make turns without warning, block the flow of motorized traffic, run stop signs without even ****ing looking, who ride 2 and 3 abreast while their heads are up their ass and generally treat the pavement as a really wide bike path with a double yellow on it.

__________________
SPORTBIKE DYNAMICS
THE PERFORMANCE CENTER THAT OUTPERFORMS!
501 Lakeville Street, Suite G
Petaluma, Sonoma County 94952
707-762-6700
Hours By Appointment
Precision Preparation, Tuning, Bling and Maintenance For The Street and Track.

It made me too sick to read on... there were much worse posts than this, but this guy was kind enough to let us know where he works.


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## NorCalBiker (Jul 10, 2006)

I just don't understand. When I or we ride, we try stay as far as to the right of the lane so we don't get run over by those (cars and motorcycles) guys.


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## [email protected] (Sep 23, 2005)

NorCalBiker said:


> I just don't understand. When I or we ride, we try stay as far as to the right of the lane so we don't get run over by those (cars and motorcycles) guys.


I have to wonder what is up with these guys or what it is that they are lacking that they are trying to make up for.

I rode a motorcycle for years and may very well do so again. I know and have known many motorcyclists and none of them (openly anyway) have this sort of attitude towards cyclist. Mostly they just feear the same thing we do... getting run over by someone who "doesn't see us"

I will say that I know two guys who gave up their street bikes and put together track bikes because of some of the moron motorcyclists in the east bay and general fear of the bad "cage" drivers in the area.


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## wipeout (Jun 6, 2005)

NorCalBiker said:


> I just don't understand. When I or we ride, we try stay as far as to the right of the lane so we don't get run over by those (cars and motorcycles) guys.


And how many times do you see a cyclist or group of cyclists do something stupid? I see it all the time - people running stop signs/red lights, riding 3-wide, etc.


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## [email protected] (Sep 23, 2005)

wipeout said:


> And how many times do you see a cyclist or group of cyclists do something stupid? I see it all the time - people running stop signs/red lights, riding 3-wide, etc.


your point is???


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## gremelm (Apr 7, 2005)

I never realized how much contempt (hatred) a few motorcyclist have for us cyclist. Maybe too much testosterone leading to way too much aggressive behavior. Who knows but most of them are ok with us road cyclists. I just don't understand why those few can't give us the room we need to safely ride Old Tunnel/Grizzly Peak/Skyline. It only takes a few seconds to slow down and safely pass. Why can't these same few slow down in a blind curve just as cars are suppose to do. It's just common sense, right? It's pretty sad that these few also wish ill will to any cyclist in their path. Time to be even more cautious when riding.


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## NorCalBiker (Jul 10, 2006)

wipeout said:


> And how many times do you see a cyclist or group of cyclists do something stupid? I see it all the time - people running stop signs/red lights, riding 3-wide, etc.


So that's give them the right to hate us and run us over? I'm sure that there's always a bad apple on a tree, but that doesn't give you a right to kill the tree.


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## wipeout (Jun 6, 2005)

NorCalBiker said:


> So that's give them the right to hate us and run us over? I'm sure that there's always a bad apple on a tree, but that doesn't give you a right to kill the tree.


That's not what I'm saying - you innocently said you did not understand why some cagers or motorcyclists might be mad at cyclist's behavior since YOU never did anything wrong:



NorCalBiker said:


> I just don't understand. When I or we ride, we try stay as far as to the right of the lane so we don't get run over by those (cars and motorcycles) guys.


So I gave you some reasons WHY these yahoo's might think like they do. Of course anyone has the 'right' to hate anyone - but not run over.

You never answered my question... Do you ever see cyclists do stupid things?


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## Fogdweller (Mar 26, 2004)

A guy on my sunday ride is also a member of a local moto club (mostly stock brokers and lawyers) and he says they routinely come across large group rides of four abreast who make no effort to get out of the way. He's seen several rides that actually have a car follow the back of the group (probably someone's wife or girlfriend) to shield the rear of the group from traffic. I can understand why they're angry. It doesn't justify their behavior but many of these group rides out in the country are making it bad for all of us.


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## NorCalBiker (Jul 10, 2006)

wipeout said:


> That's not what I'm saying - you innocently said you did not understand why some cagers or motorcyclists might be mad at cyclist's behavior since YOU never did anything wrong:
> 
> So I gave you some reasons WHY these yahoo's might think like they do. Of course anyone has the 'right' to hate anyone - but not run over.


I hear you now.




wipeout said:


> You never answered my question... Do you ever see cyclists do stupid things?


YES!!! See it all the time. But only in S.F. Downtown where I work and most of them if not all are the bike messenger. I live about 50 miles away from the city I can't recall seeing a cyclist who do stupid things. By the way, I ride in the winery County, because I live nearby.


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## Bokchoy (Jul 25, 2006)

*Saturday, the motorcyclist did the stupid thing, not the cyclist*



wipeout said:


> And how many times do you see a cyclist or group of cyclists do something stupid? I see it all the time - people running stop signs/red lights, riding 3-wide, etc.


The several idiots on that motorcycle forum have no idea about the particular accident in question.
It was in Oakland on Skyline Blvd. just south of Pinehurst Rd.
Anyone who goes to the site and looks at the orange paint marking "blood" can see the impact zone.
Watch a dozen or more bicycles go around that right hand turn and watch where they naturally do it. No one I saw even went around that turn in the left 50% of their own lane.
Everyone hugs the edge as it is shorter distance and naturally banked to cut the corner.
The road has a double yellow line.

Coming from the motorcyclist direction, trees and other things block the view of whats ahead on his "left" turn. He cannot see much at all in that direction.
So at speed, this motorcyclist passes the car in front on a nearly blind left hand turn, goes completely over into the center and beyond of the opposing lane and slams into the lone bicylist who is in the far right of his proper lane.
No bicylist could have been rounding he curve safer.
No motorcylist could have made a more dangerous blind pass at excessive "passing" speed.

For anyone to begin second guessing the bicyclist in this case shows both an ignorance of the location as well as a bias against cyclists.
That is much of what I was reading in many posts over on that motorcycling board.
Some of them excusing the situation causing the death because of something done in San Francisco during "Critical Mass" or because of some rider's actions in the "Wine country?

The actions of the motorcyclist in this accident call for more than mere citations. 
The "gross negligence" is so extreme that either involuntary manslaughter or manslaughter are called for. I'd say 12 months jail time as a minimum and a 10 year ban from riding any motorcycle with more horsepower than a Vespa.....I think 250 cc.


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## Boardmill (Oct 15, 2005)

The fact that some motorcycle riders hate us doesn't surprise me one bit. I've been buzzed a bunch of times and it does scare me but it doesn't make me mad. The only time I have every really been pissed off was when they buzzed my girlfriend on a ride.

For those of you who haven't read the forum or don't have time: 95% of the motorcycle riders are taking the idiots who buzz us to task, in a big way. Almost everyone is reasonable and expressing solidarity with us NOT against us. I'm actually surprised how many of them ride road bikes too.


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## parity (Feb 28, 2006)

I really don't take too serious what people say online in a forum. People like to brag and talk tough but its mostly BS. I am surprised though to hear some of the harsh words from motorcyclists since my experience has been mostly positive. I think the biggest complaint is being held up by some one slower. But lets be honest on some of these roads few cars or motorcycles are doing the speed limit. And its my oppinion that no matter how fast you are going the person behind will always want to pass you. So I try to keep an eye on who is behind me so they can pass because mostly people get the most aggrevated when they can't pass you or don't feel safe to pass.


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## wipeout (Jun 6, 2005)

Boardmill said:


> The fact that some motorcycle riders hate us doesn't surprise me one bit. I've been buzzed a bunch of times and it does scare me but it doesn't make me mad. The only time I have every really been pissed off was when they buzzed my girlfriend on a ride.
> 
> For those of you who haven't read the forum or don't have time: 95% of the motorcycle riders are taking the idiots who buzz us to task, in a big way. Almost everyone is reasonable and expressing solidarity with us NOT against us. I'm actually surprised how many of them ride road bikes too.


Hmm, Sometimes I'll ride my motorcycle up along Skyline but would never even think of buzzing a cyclist for any reason. I don't ever recall getting buzzed by bikers while cycling up there either - although some of fly by way too fast. The worse thing that's happened is hearing loss due to those zero muffler Harley bikes.

What sickens me most about these vehicle vs. cyclist accidents (that results in the death of the cyclist) are the relativity light punishments the offenders receive. *sigh*


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## rkdvsm (Jul 15, 2006)

Originally posted by ALANRIDER7
spandex nazis who make turns without warning, block the flow of motorized traffic, run stop signs without even ****ing looking, who ride 2 and 3 abreast while their heads are up their ass and generally treat the pavement as a really wide bike path with a double yellow on it. 
THat's GREAT!!

Bicyclists in general are not an issue for me.....if they are using common sense. It's the Spandex Nazi's that are the issue.

What bothers me the most is the mentality of "it's not illegal therefore it is my right to do it and your responsibility to look out for me." Well....those packs of bicycles that clog the roads around blind corners doing about 5 mph are begging to get creamed. When you're dead you can't blame it on everyone else....cuase....you're dead.
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Again this is their main point. And I can't disagree. The truth is there are some really bad cyclists out there who don't yield to the faster vehicles even if there is room to yield. I don't know if it's the law, but even if it wasn't it should be common sense to yield whenever possible. These guys just seemed to be upset at the few cyclists who showed no consideration for the other drivers. If you aren't one of the inconsiderate cyclists then their anger isn't towards you. 

And if you're upset about the "running you over" messages that the bikers posted, then I would be upset with you on that because obviously no one wants to get hurt or even killed. However, just reading through the messages here I can see that we're no better.


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## wchane (Aug 8, 2006)

coming from a world filled with high performance vehicles and motorcycles to road cycling (not even a week ago) i have to say it really goes both ways. it's always a few bad apples that spoil the bunch. 

HWY 9 and Skyline are popular spots for 'meet and drives' a group of motor vehicles or motorcyclists meet and head on up for a hopefully spiritied run. There are collisions and accidents every weekend, the bigger ones always blame smaller ones and v.versa. I personally would never cycle up hwy 9 for this reason, I see cyclist struggling up the hill climbs up all the time, although they are in that narrow 24" or whatever allowed or to the very right they are sitting ducks when a car or motorcycle flies up at 60+ mph.

All they need to do is go off the line or make one mistake and the cyclist will lose. Shame really. Due to this and other personal reasons I have not participated in any 'spirited driving' events organized by 'car clubs' it's just too hard of a situation to control. 

There are many good hearted automobile operators, motorcycle drivers, as well as cyclists out there. I hope to be counted in this group. Don't let a few ruin all the fun. I'm sure I'm also not the only person on this board that likes fast cars, performance motorcycles, and road cycles.


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## rzims (Nov 15, 2005)

First off, I think we all need to take a deep breath here.....we all share the road and there are as many a$$hat motorcyclists as there are rude bicyclists....

Secondly, in quoting other people it's important to include the whole quote -_ "I hope you're not referring to the select few spandex nazis who make turns without warning, block the flow of motorized traffic, run stop signs without even ****ing looking, who ride 2 and 3 abreast while their heads are up their ass and generally treat the pavement as a really wide bike path with a double yellow on it."_

You'll notice he said Select Few.....not all and not every....

I ride both motorcycles and bicycles and everyone here knows as well as I do that there are idiots in both camps.....
Add to that the fact that internet forums allow people to say whatever they want without any need to back it up and you'll get braggarts and smack talkers all the time.

This is tragic and my thoughts go out to the dead guys family....


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## Otago (Aug 6, 2006)

*At this particular location, motorcyclists are the danger, not cyclists.*



rzims said:


> First off, I think we all need to take a deep breath here.....we all share the road and there are as many a$$hat motorcyclists as there are rude bicyclists....
> 
> Secondly, in quoting other people it's important to include the whole quote -_ "I hope you're not referring to the select few spandex nazis who make turns without warning, block the flow of motorized traffic, run stop signs without even ****ing looking, who ride 2 and 3 abreast while their heads are up their ass and generally treat the pavement as a really wide bike path with a double yellow on it."_
> 
> ...



I would just say this. If you go to the site where the recent death occured and observe the actions of bicyclists and motorcyclists on "that particular turn" you will find quite a difference.
99.9+ percent of cyclists make that turn safely in their own lane and under the speed limit.
Motorcyclists on the other hand are very frequently making that turn well over the speed limit and over the double yellow line leaning so close to horizontal it makes me uneasy thinking they'll hurt their left knee as it scrapes the pavement.
Speak with ajacent residents. They hear/see it day and night.
So, on "this particular turn", it is the motorcyclists (and some autos) that are creating the dangerous condition, not the cyclists.
Everyone wants to argue about hundreds of other situations.


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## rzims (Nov 15, 2005)

Otago, that's true and in this particular situation, it does definitely sound like the motorcyclist was at fault. 
One of the real tragedies I see in the motorcycle world as opposed to the bicycle world is that anyone, regardless of skill can go buy a very high speed vehicle and be turned loose to learn on their own.
Bicycles are also like that, but your speed is limited by your ability to turn the pedals and your crashes are _more likely_ to result in a less significant injury to yourself and others.


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## rkdvsm (Jul 15, 2006)

rzims said:


> First off, I think we all need to take a deep breath here.....we all share the road and there are as many a$$hat motorcyclists as there are rude bicyclists....
> 
> Secondly, in quoting other people it's important to include the whole quote -_ "I hope you're not referring to the select few spandex nazis who make turns without warning, block the flow of motorized traffic, run stop signs without even ****ing looking, who ride 2 and 3 abreast while their heads are up their ass and generally treat the pavement as a really wide bike path with a double yellow on it."_
> 
> ...


First off, I think everyone agrees that we do share the road. The angry motorcyclists weren't trying to say that cyclists have no rights on the road. As a matter of fact, they have every right as another other vehicle out there. It's the law.
Second, the incomplete quote was simply a paste and cut error. Even without it though it is clear that this individual is upset at the FEW people. I made that clear in my last post when I said the following: 
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Again this is their main point. And I can't disagree. The truth is there are some really bad cyclists out there who don't yield to the faster vehicles even if there is room to yield. I don't know if it's the law, but even if it wasn't it should be common sense to yield whenever possible. These guys just seemed to be upset at the few cyclists who showed no consideration for the other drivers. If you aren't one of the inconsiderate cyclists then their anger isn't towards you.

And if you're upset about the "running you over" messages that the bikers posted, then I would be upset with you on that because obviously no one wants to get hurt or even killed. However, just reading through the messages here I can see that we're no better.
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I quoted the whole thing this time (just in case), but notice that I wrote "the few cyclists" who are inconsiderate. Not all, not everyone, just the few. And unforunately it is true that one bad apple can ruin everything.

The point is that although people here are getting upset at the motorcyclist's comments on the other boards, their main point should be well-taken. Sure there are bad motorcyclists out there...maybe much more than bad cyclists, but that's not their point. And that could be a topic for another day or post. Right now, they were upset at the "FEW" spandex riders who don't share the road. I'm not a motorcyclist, but I am a driver and I understand where they're coming from.


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## jitahs (Mar 7, 2006)

I've been buzzed on my moto by other motos.

I've been buzzed on my bike by motos. A few times by girls. 

I've been buzzed by bikes on my bike.

I've buzzed cars on my moto.

I've buzzed bikes on my bike.

I've buzzed motos on my bike--once he let me pass and later passed back, giving me the thumbs up. 

Last month I buzzed myself and separated my shoulder.


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## richk (Dec 30, 2006)

*True but*

I have ridden in small groups and large groups of bicyclist and have rode with careless riders who think they own the rode and ride 2 abreast even where they shouldn,t


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