# nOOB Questions On Campagnolo Groupset



## cda 455

I'm a life-long MTB'er and have never owned a road bike.

I'm building my first road bike this season and have questions regarding road bike groupset (Please remember I'm a nOOB!).


Since I've never owned a RB I don't have any time with how RB shifters feel/work/ etc.:

1) Will I have any problems if I just get the Campy groupset without any experience with the groupset (Or any RB groupset for that matter)?

2) I'm looking at the Record groupset. What kind of lifespan can I expect from the the Campy CF? I don't and won't race, I'll put between 2,000 to 5,000 miles a year on them, I'll ride in the rain, and I'll do more than half my riding before dawn.

3) Should I compare Campy to Shimano?

4) Should I try to test driver Campy first?

5) Any general or specific differences between Campy and Shimano? Should I care if there is?

6) Can I run a Campy triple crankset with any of their shifters?

7) Names of recommended/trustworthy Campy dealers in the U.S.?

8) Are all Campy cassettes interchangeable (Ex: Record groupset with Centaur cassette)? 

9) Any other advise on Campy that I haven't covered but need to know?


Thanks much!


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## Salsa_Lover

cda 455 said:


> I'm a life-long MTB'er and have never owned a road bike.
> 
> I'm building my first road bike this season and have questions regarding road bike groupset (Please remember I'm a nOOB!).
> 
> 
> Since I've never owned a RB I don't have any time with how RB shifters feel/work/ etc.:
> 
> 1) Will I have any problems if I just get the Campy groupset without any experience with the groupset (Or any RB groupset for that matter)?


It usually takes a little time to learn and adapt to a different commands actuation, you are a mountain biker so you are used to use your thumb to shift so the adaptation period would be very short.


> 2) I'm looking at the Record groupset. What kind of lifespan can I expect from the the Campy CF? I don't and won't race, I'll put between 2,000 to 5,000 miles a year on them, I'll ride in the rain, and I'll do more than half my riding before dawn.


Campagnolo components last very long, I have a bike that has 10 years old Record 10 and still works flawlesly.
If you ride in the rain you will wear your components and wheels faster for sure, but it is not the water that damages the components, but the grime and dirt you collect on the road and also keep riding after the grease/oil gets washed away by rain.
If you clean your bike after a rainy ride ( so shower it with clean water ) and oil it and grease it again after it dries then your components will last a long time, rims on the other hand will get more wear due to mud/dirty water.
keep in mind, rain drops are not pure water, they often had a grain of sand inside, so rain dirty water on rims and brake pads is like very fine wet sandpaper, clean your brake pads often.


> 3) Should I compare Campy to Shimano?


nope


> 4) Should I try to test driver Campy first?


try if you can, but you won't be disapointed with Campagnolo.


> 5) Any general or specific differences between Campy and Shimano? Should I care if there is?


many, but you shouldn't care, you did the right choice already


> 6) Can I run a Campy triple crankset with any of their shifters?


Yes, but there are only 10 speed Campy triples on the market ( Campagnolo COMP Triple ) you could get similar range with a compact 50/34 and 12-29 casette, but I would advice you to HTFU 


> 7) Names of recommended/trustworthy Campy dealers in the U.S.?


don't know


> 8) Are all Campy cassettes interchangeable (Ex: Record groupset with Centaur cassette)?


Athena/Chorus/Record/Super Record are 11speed
Veloce/Centaur is 10 speed


> 9) Any other advise on Campy that I haven't covered but need to know?


just enjoy it


> Thanks much!


you're welcome


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## kbwh

You're looking at Record, which is mighty fine. I'll just say that Chorus works and feels exactly the same for a little weight penalty and a lower price.
I'll also say that the thumb shifter makes a good cause for choosing a short and shallow bar shape like
FSA Compact
Deda RHM
3T Ergnova
Ritchey Curve
Zipp SSR
They all make it easy to reach the thumb shifter from the drops without moving your hands.


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## cda 455

kbwh said:


> You're looking at Record, which is mighty fine. I'll just say that Chorus works and feels exactly the same for a little weight penalty and a lower price.
> I'll also say that the thumb shifter makes a good cause for choosing a short and shallow bar shape like
> FSA Compact
> Deda RHM
> 3T Ergnova
> Ritchey Curve
> Zipp SSR
> They all make it easy to reach the thumb shifter from the drops without moving your hands.



Wow; The price difference is a set of custom wheels ($749)  !

Thanks for the tips!


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## cda 455

> It's not the price of the horse. It's the cost of upkeep that's expensive.


Looking at Campy stuff; Um, I noticed that EVERYTHING is expensive :eek6: !

Examples:

1) Campy 11 speed chain tool-$300

2) Campy 11 Record cassette-$440 to $570

3) Campy Chorus cassette-$200 to $240

4) Campy Record chain-$90

5) Campy Corkscrew-$275


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## kbwh

You obviously need the corkscrew. :thumbsup:

Have you checked the prices at the UK web shops?


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## eekase

cda 455 said:


> Looking at Campy stuff; Um, I noticed that EVERYTHING is expensive :eek6: !
> 
> Examples:
> 
> 1) Campy 11 speed chain tool-$300
> 
> 2) Campy 11 Record cassette-$440 to $570
> 
> 3) Campy Chorus cassette-$200 to $240
> 
> 4) Campy Record chain-$90
> 
> 5) Campy Corkscrew-$275


1) Park makes a chain tool which is cheaper and works on campy chains.
3) Use a chorus chain, you'll save a little $...or use a KMC 11-speed chain, then you won't need either the campy chain tool or the park chain tool, but you will need the KMC link tools to take the chain on/off, which is nice when you need to clean it.
5) Some people pay double for that cork screw 

Have fun!


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## mackgoo

Keep in mind every Campy component you buy can be rebuilt and will virtually last forever.


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## Salsa_Lover

cda 455 said:


> Looking at Campy stuff; Um, I noticed that EVERYTHING is expensive :eek6: !
> 
> Examples:
> 
> 1) Campy 11 speed chain tool-$300
> 
> 2) Campy 11 Record cassette-$440 to $570
> 
> 3) Campy Chorus cassette-$200 to $240
> 
> 4) Campy Record chain-$90
> 
> 5) Campy Corkscrew-$275


Those are +- the double as what we usually pay here in Yurop.


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## redvespablur

I've built mt last two bikes with Campy 11 using eBay, Velomine (Illinois dealer with great website highly recommended for Campy), and Wiggle in the UK and you can do so saving lots of money over North American MSRP.

I have a nice mix of Chorus and Athena. The stuff last forever and it does break-in not break down.


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## ultraman6970

Since is the 1st time you will be playing with this things and pretty much looks like you will beat the [email protected] out the bike i would advice you to get athena 11 speed in silver, all aluminum no carbon components. Why?? is cheaper and works the same than record but with some extra grams, don't ask me how many because since i stopped racing like 25 years ago i don't care about weight no more. Don't worry about weight man, worry about reliability.

That said, you can find a full athena group for around 1000 bucks, maybe less.

About the tools, park makes an 11 chain tool but so far by experience the VAR 10 speed one i have worked the same.

Pick ultra torque, there is athena power torque. Why UT? well it will make your life easier if you want to extract the cranks, power torque uses a extractor so this way u will save cash if you get ultra torque, one less tool to get.

For the UT cups the shimano tool that probably u have already will work just fine. I'm almost sure u have all the tools needed already.

Wheels, u need a set of wheels compatible with campagnolo. Probably in forums or eflay you can get a set w/o braking the bank. If you are good putting wheels together, lacing and stuff i would advice you to get a set of miche rc2 or the miche primato hubset, get the rims spokes and lace that wheel yourself, and done with it.

Where to get the stuff?? Velo Mine in Springfield IL, give them a call they have groups and wheels (not related with them ok? they are pretty good as a shop and have good prices).

Hmmm dunno what else, pretty much if you have problems just post the question, but if you are good figuring out and have put a lot of bikes together doubt you will have problems setting up a campy group.

An advice, the instructions for the BB cups are really like [email protected], so do this... put grease in the BB shell threads... then put teflon tape in the BB cup threads, put the cups in and just tight them really well (havent used a single torque tool ever and pretty much there is no way you will damage the bb shell or the cups if you crank them pretty hard), put the driver side crank in, put the clip IN (u will now when u see it), put the non driver side crank in, put grease and teflon tape to the center bolt (u dont want that to get lose or get stuck in there), tight really well... done. The other components are too easy to install, u don't even need instructions for them

Good luck.


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## kbwh

Athena shifters (Power Shift) don't work like Record and Chorus shifters (Ultra Shift). Power Shift does not give you that wonderful double dump. You'd have to do multiple clicks to upshift the cassette, just like on SRAMano. Athena cranks (Power Torque) require special tools. 

You could go Athena on all but those two components, cda.


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## Bizman

I am also a long life mountain biker (still am). I now have 6 months on my first road bike. When I was looking for a road bike I tried the different shifters, sram, shimano, campy. As soon as I road a bike with campy I knew that is what I wanted and never looked back. I like the feel of it, the hoods, & the way the shifters work. I can recomend Velomine for parts too.


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## cda 455

kbwh said:


> Athena shifters (Power Shift) don't work like Record and Chorus shifters (Ultra Shift). Power Shift does not give you that wonderful double dump. You'd have to do multiple clicks to upshift the cassette, just like on SRAMano. Athena cranks (Power Torque) require special tools.
> 
> You could go Athena on all but those two components, cda.



Dude, you know I want the 'double dump' (Pun intended)  !


Which ever groupset I get it'll be a complete set.


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## cda 455

Salsa_Lover said:


> Campagnolo components last very long, I have a bike that has 10 years old Record 10 and still works flawlesly.
> If you ride in the rain you will wear your components and wheels faster for sure, but it is not the water that damages the components, but the grime and dirt you collect on the road and also keep riding after the grease/oil gets washed away by rain.
> If you clean your bike after a rainy ride ( so shower it with clean water ) and oil it and grease it again after it dries then your components will last a long time, rims on the other hand will get more wear due to mud/dirty water.
> keep in mind, rain drops are not pure water, they often had a grain of sand inside, so rain dirty water on rims and brake pads is like very fine wet sandpaper, clean your brake pads often.


I've been pondering your points here.


Maybe the bike will be just a fair weather bike.

Between mid April until late October is desert weather in my area.


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## cda 455

Bizman said:


> I am also a long life mountain biker (still am). I now have 6 months on my first road bike. When I was looking for a road bike I tried the different shifters, sram, shimano, campy. As soon as I road a bike with campy I knew that is what I wanted and never looked back. I like the feel of it, the hoods, & the way the shifters work. I can recomend Velomine for parts too.



Thanks for your input.

It's going to be interesting. I'm used to riding 15 to 20MPH on the road with my 31lb FS MTB with suspension locked out. From what I understand I'll probably bump up to around 25 to 30MPH with the RB.


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## cda 455

What's the largest/widest tire I can squeeze past Campy caliper brakes?

Hopefully a 28mm because I'm a Clydesdale.


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## ultraman6970

28??

If you want to ride that better get a CX bike. A road bike with 28 tires is like having a F1 car with tractor wheels man


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## bigbill

cda 455 said:


> What's the largest/widest tire I can squeeze past Campy caliper brakes?
> 
> Hopefully a 28mm because I'm a Clydesdale.


28 will work just fine. Just make sure it clears the fork.


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## orange_julius

bigbill said:


> 28 will work just fine. Just make sure it clears the fork.


And to add to this, of course make sure that the rear triangle can take a 28c. Basically this is more a frame/fork question. 

For what it's worth, I use a set of Tektro brakes on my 28c-capable frame.


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## ETWN Stu

Theres two types of groupsets. 1. Campy and 2. Everything else! websites like Ribble will be your best friend as their prices are pretty sharp  

Just an indication for you, I got over 10000kms off a 11speed Record chain and the Chorus cassette that I used is still going strong on another bike. Its popular to run a Chorus Cassette with SR or Record to keep the miles off the titanium cassettes or prices down.

The oldest saying is "shimano wears out whilst campy wears in".

Enjoy your pasta for years to come!!!


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## tom_h

*Chains*

cda 455,

Give some thought to having 2 or even 3 Chorus chains, that you can rotate every 3K miles or so. That will greatly extend the life of cassettes. There have been several threads on this, over the years. Of course, it's not mandatory to do this, but I think it is much more economical use of the cassettes & chains.

For exmpl, I rotate among 3 chains:

Chain A for about 3K miles (approx 1/3 of useful life).
Chain B for 3K mi.
Chain C for 3K mi.
Repeat the above a total of 3 times.

At the end, you will have gotten about 9K miles from each chain and over 25K mi from the cassette. I am about halfway thru this sequence. You could also do it with 2 chains, going about 4K on each chain before swapping.

Do NOT use the common Shimano/SRM criteria for replacing chains, or one of the short chain-checker tools made by Park & others. These lead to premature chain replacememtn, even though the Campy chain is not wearing out.

Campy's spec is:
_Measure between bushings/rollers of 6 outer plate links with a vernier cailper, the max allowed is 132.60 mm._

If you plan on doing your own maintenance, Campy brand 11sp chain tool has some advantages over the 2 separate tools from Park.

If you buy tool from UK, should be able to find it under $150. Unfortunately you missed Ribble's recent Campy sale, their already low prices were reduced another 20% or so. I find Ribble usually has better Campy prices han Wiggle (but not always).

The Campy tool effectively has a built-in Go/NoGo guage that ensures the joining pin is inserted the corrected depth: you cannot "peen" the head of pin from the drive-side, unless rear of pin (non-drive-side) has been pressed to correct depth. There is a Campy video on Youtube showing this. 

As with most modern chains, you must _never_ use the same chain hole twice. Once a field service pin is installed, you can only break and rejoin the chain at a _different_ location.


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## Kristatos

1) I use my Park chain tool on our Mountain Bikes (SRAM & Shimano components), Campy 11spd Road bikes and my wife's Shimano road bike with no problems. 

2-4) It'll last twice as long as other brands when properly maintained - and if you have a good LBS you should be able to work a SIGNIFICANT discount

5) Does anyone else even offer one? 



cda 455 said:


> Looking at Campy stuff; Um, I noticed that EVERYTHING is expensive :eek6: !
> 
> Examples:
> 
> 1) Campy 11 speed chain tool-$300
> 
> 2) Campy 11 Record cassette-$440 to $570
> 
> 3) Campy Chorus cassette-$200 to $240
> 
> 4) Campy Record chain-$90
> 
> 5) Campy Corkscrew-$275


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## T K

I'm considering putting campy on my new (old) Bianchi. I'm wondering about the thumb levers though. I would think they would have made them reachable whilst in the drops, but it just looks like they wouldn't be. Is this an issue at all? Or not, if you have really long thumbs.


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## Salsa_Lover

it is not an issue if you place the levers on the right position, many tend to place them higher than they should and then the thumb levers are too high to pull them while in the drops.

If you project an imaginary line from the drops the tip of the levers should touch that line

look at the first illustration on this page ( it is interactive so you can see many handlebar shapes )

Road Drop Bar Geometry : La Rueda Tropical


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## orange_julius

Kristatos said:


> 1) I use my Park chain tool on our Mountain Bikes (SRAM & Shimano components), Campy 11spd Road bikes and my wife's Shimano road bike with no problems.
> 
> 2-4) It'll last twice as long as other brands when properly maintained - and if you have a good LBS you should be able to work a SIGNIFICANT discount
> 
> 5) Does anyone else even offer one?


Does the Park tool peen the pin of the chain?


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## T K

Salsa_Lover said:


> it is not an issue if you place the levers on the right position, many tend to place them higher than they should and then the thumb levers are too high to pull them while in the drops.
> 
> If you project an imaginary line from the drops the tip of the levers should touch that line
> 
> look at the first illustration on this page ( it is interactive so you can see many handlebar shapes )
> 
> Road Drop Bar Geometry : La Rueda Tropical


Nice link. Thanks.:thumbsup:


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## ultimobici

orange_julius said:


> Does the Park tool peen the pin of the chain?


No, the CT4.2 only drives the pin in or out. To peen the rivet you need the CT11.


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## orange_julius

ultimobici said:


> No, the CT4.2 only drives the pin in or out. To peen the rivet you need the CT11.


Thank you.

For the benefit of those new to Campa 11 sp, it is absolutely necessary to peen the rivet, otherwise the chain is not safe for use.


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## cda 455

orange_julius said:


> Thank you.
> 
> For the benefit of those new to Campa 11 sp, it is absolutely necessary to peen the rivet, otherwise the chain is not safe for use.



Thanks for the tip :thumbsup: !


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## cda 455

tom_h said:


> cda 455,
> 
> Give some thought to having 2 or even 3 Chorus chains, that you can rotate every 3K miles or so. That will greatly extend the life of cassettes. There have been several threads on this, over the years. Of course, it's not mandatory to do this, but I think it is much more economical use of the cassettes & chains.
> 
> For exmpl, I rotate among 3 chains:
> 
> Chain A for about 3K miles (approx 1/3 of useful life).
> Chain B for 3K mi.
> Chain C for 3K mi.
> Repeat the above a total of 3 times.
> 
> At the end, you will have gotten about 9K miles from each chain and over 25K mi from the cassette. I am about halfway thru this sequence. You could also do it with 2 chains, going about 4K on each chain before swapping.
> 
> Do NOT use the common Shimano/SRM criteria for replacing chains, or one of the short chain-checker tools made by Park & others. These lead to premature chain replacememtn, even though the Campy chain is not wearing out.
> 
> Campy's spec is:
> _Measure between bushings/rollers of 6 outer plate links with a vernier cailper, the max allowed is 132.60 mm._
> 
> If you plan on doing your own maintenance, Campy brand 11sp chain tool has some advantages over the 2 separate tools from Park.
> 
> If you buy tool from UK, should be able to find it under $150. Unfortunately you missed Ribble's recent Campy sale, their already low prices were reduced another 20% or so. I find Ribble usually has better Campy prices han Wiggle (but not always).
> 
> The Campy tool effectively has a built-in Go/NoGo guage that ensures the joining pin is inserted the corrected depth: you cannot "peen" the head of pin from the drive-side, unless rear of pin (non-drive-side) has been pressed to correct depth. There is a Campy video on Youtube showing this.
> 
> As with most modern chains, you must _never_ use the same chain hole twice. Once a field service pin is installed, you can only break and rejoin the chain at a _different_ location.


Man, awesome Campy tech for this nOOB!!

Thanks for sharing; and you get rep'ed :thumbsup: !


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## cda 455

tom_h said:


> cda 455,
> 
> Give some thought to having 2 or even 3 Chorus chains, that you can rotate every 3K miles or so. That will greatly extend the life of cassettes. There have been several threads on this, over the years. Of course, it's not mandatory to do this, but I think it is much more economical use of the cassettes & chains.
> 
> For exmpl, I rotate among 3 chains:
> 
> Chain A for about 3K miles (approx 1/3 of useful life).
> Chain B for 3K mi.
> Chain C for 3K mi.
> Repeat the above a total of 3 times.
> 
> At the end, you will have gotten about 9K miles from each chain and over 25K mi from the cassette. I am about halfway thru this sequence. You could also do it with 2 chains, going about 4K on each chain before swapping.



So, this sounds like increasing the lifespan of the cassette. Am I correct? 

By using a 'newer' chain in a manner of speaking? Or a slower wearing chain in a manner of speaking?


How long would a cassette last if only using one chain?

Or, to put it another way; If Campy came out with a new chain called 'Widget' that never wears, how long would the cassette last?



Also, would the Chorus chain be stronger than the higher end models because of more material (Also meaning heavier)?


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## cda 455

Question regarding Record and Super Record crankset:

Is there an official or unofficial weight limit on those CF cranksets?


Being a Clydesdale and also being a masher I'm wondering how the crankset will hold up after five years of use. Ten years of use.


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## flatlander_48

cda 455 said:


> 5) Any general or specific differences between Campy and Shimano? Should I care if there is?


The major obvious difference is the motion of the shift levers. Speaking purely from my viewpoint, I **** the fact that the chain movement when you shift mimics the movement of your fingers. Just makes sense to me and is consistent. It's intuitive and not counter-intuitive.



cda 455 said:


> 6) Can I run a Campy triple crankset with any of their shifters?


An 11sp triple Athena crankset is coming for 2013. I mentioned it here: http://forums.roadbikereview.com/campagnolo/i-rode-eps-267503.html As far as I know, this could be the first 11sp triple. Several years ago, I switched from a 10sp double to a triple. That didn't require different shifters; only the derailleurs (travel issue for the front and long cage in back). However, in the brochure that I have that shows the Athena triple, there is no mention of addition derailleur models other than a long cage model that you need for the 12-29 cassette. That leads me to believe that different shifters are not required, but I don't know for sure.



cda 455 said:


> 9) Any other advice on Campy that I haven't covered but need to know?


Shimano and SRAM riders often throw out a lot of negative B/S about Campagnolo and the people who ride it. It's pure propaganda and isn't worth listening to. Also, installing a mechanical Record group now will set up up later for a move to EPS, if you choose. This was part of my rationale in upgrading from Centaur 10sp. Everything was still working just fine, but I think eventually I would like to move to EPS. Down the road, individual pieces will be sold and I can go EPS by buying shifters, derailleurs and the electronics hardware. Using my existing crank, chain, cassette and brakes takes some of the sting out of it.


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## cda 455

flatlander_48 said:


> The major obvious difference is the motion of the shift levers. Speaking purely from my viewpoint, I **** the fact that the chain movement when you shift mimics the movement of your fingers. Just makes sense to me and is consistent. It's intuitive and not counter-intuitive.
> 
> An 11sp triple Athena crankset is coming for 2013. I mentioned it here: http://forums.roadbikereview.com/campagnolo/i-rode-eps-267503.html As far as I know, this could be the first 11sp triple. Several years ago, I switched from a 10sp double to a triple. That didn't require different shifters; only the derailleurs (travel issue for the front and long cage in back). However, in the brochure that I have that shows the Athena triple, there is no mention of addition derailleur models other than a long cage model that you need for the 12-29 cassette. That leads me to believe that different shifters are not required, but I don't know for sure.
> 
> Shimano and SRAM riders often throw out a lot of negative B/S about Campagnolo and the people who ride it. It's pure propaganda and isn't worth listening to. Also, installing a mechanical Record group now will set up up later for a move to EPS, if you choose. This was part of my rationale in upgrading from Centaur 10sp. Everything was still working just fine, but I think eventually I would like to move to EPS. Down the road, individual pieces will be sold and I can go EPS by buying shifters, derailleurs and the electronics hardware. Using my existing crank, chain, cassette and brakes takes some of the sting out of it.



Awesome tech and tips here :thumbsup: !!

Thanks much for sharing!


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## kbwh

cda 455 said:


> Being a Clydesdale and also being a masher


Work on your spin. 

I've read once about an UT crank failing at the metal axle but nothing about failures in the cf or the bonds between cf and metal.


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## tom_h

cda 455 said:


> So, this sounds like increasing the lifespan of the cassette. Am I correct? .........


Sorry for late reply, for some reason I didn't get the automatic email notification.

re your main questions:
_So, this sounds like increasing the lifespan of the cassette. Am I correct? _
YES

_How long would a cassette last if only using one chain?_
Depends a lot on riding conditions and how frequently you clean drivetrain, but many people report >10K miles, and even 15K+ wouldn't be unusual for an all-steel Chorus cassette.
Many would feel that the "bother" of rotating chains isn't worth it , but IMNSHO depends on how much of your own maintenance 
you like to do.

_would the Chorus chain be stronger than the higher end models because of more material (Also meaning heavier)? _
I've not heard of Record chains being "weak", but the slight decrease in chain weight (few 10s of grams) doesn't justify the price, for me.
The very high price of Record cassettes definitely isn't worth it IMO. The larger Record cogs are made of titanium, & are relatively soft compared to the all steel Chorus. The Record cogs will wear much faster than Chorus cassette (2x ?). 

As you can see, I'm an advocate of Chorus cassettes & chains, even on an otherwise all-Record or SuperRecord drivetrain.


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## cda 455

tom_h said:


> Sorry for late reply, for some reason I didn't get the automatic email notification.
> 
> re your main questions:
> _So, this sounds like increasing the lifespan of the cassette. Am I correct? _
> YES
> 
> _How long would a cassette last if only using one chain?_
> Depends a lot on riding conditions and how frequently you clean drivetrain, but many people report >10K miles, and even 15K+ wouldn't be unusual for an all-steel Chorus cassette.
> Many would feel that the "bother" of rotating chains isn't worth it , but IMNSHO depends on how much of your own maintenance
> you like to do.
> 
> _would the Chorus chain be stronger than the higher end models because of more material (Also meaning heavier)? _
> I've not heard of Record chains being "weak", but the slight decrease in chain weight (few 10s of grams) doesn't justify the price, for me.
> The very high price of Record cassettes definitely isn't worth it IMO. The larger Record cogs are made of titanium, & are relatively soft compared to the all steel Chorus. The Record cogs will wear much faster than Chorus cassette (2x ?).
> 
> As you can see, I'm an advocate of Chorus cassettes & chains, even on an otherwise all-Record or SuperRecord drivetrain.


Thanks for the reply!

Yeah, that's what I figured and it makes total sense/cents (Pun intended  !).


I think when I get the bike built I'm probably going to be pretty diligent at bike maintenance and cleanliness. Especially with the fact that even using Chorus cassette and chain on the Record groupset, that's a ton more money than my MTB cassette and chain :eek6: .


Tech question:

Is Record/Super Record chain any better/different/worse than Shimano Ultegra/DA chain?


One thing that's starting to really become a reality to me is the fact that I'll be going from a 7/8 cassette to an 11 cassette. And that more cogs mean narrower chain equaling less strength (Than a chain for a 7 cassette). Is this correct?


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## cda 455

kbwh said:


> Work on your spin.
> 
> I've read once about an UT crank failing at the metal axle but nothing about failures in the cf or the bonds between cf and metal.



Definitely true there.

But even so; Out of the saddle to sprint or dealing with a climb, I'm still putting 50 to 100lbs more dead weight on each pedal stroke than the average pro cyclist (The intended user). And we haven't even calculated torque into the equation.


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## tom_h

cda 455 said:


> ... Tech question:
> 
> Is Record/Super Record chain any better/different/worse than Shimano Ultegra/DA chain?
> 
> 
> One thing that's starting to really become a reality to me is the fact that I'll be going from a 7/8 cassette to an 11 cassette. And that more cogs mean narrower chain equaling less strength (Than a chain for a 7 cassette). Is this correct?


I'be never heard of even Pro sprinters (1300+ watts) breaking a modern 10/11 speed chain, that is _properly assembled_. The chains _are_ narrower than 7sp, but the newer steel alloys & manufacturing methods have improved.

Campy brand chains are generally longer lasting than Shimano, by any objective measurements. As much as 2x longer. As I stated earlier, Don't use one of the small "chain checker" guages to measure a Campy chain, it will falsely indicate a premature wearout. 

Maybe one day, Campy or else someone will start offering a Go/NoGo guage that is intended for the Campy spec (Measure between bushings/rollers of 6 outer plate links, the max allowed is 132.60 mm.)

Earlier you were asking about crankset weight limits. I've not read of any weight limits in Campy's tech documents. You're probably fine, but just the same don't use the the SuperRecord _titanium_ axle version (an ultra-$$ option).
There are a some Ti-axle pedals on the market that do have a weight limit of ~180 lbs or so. Stick with chromoly steel or stainless steel pedal axles.


----------



## cda 455

tom_h said:


> I'be never heard of even Pro sprinters (1300+ watts) breaking a modern 10/11 speed chain, that is _properly assembled_. The chains _are_ narrower than 7sp, but the newer steel alloys & manufacturing methods have improved.
> 
> Campy brand chains are generally longer lasting than Shimano, by any objective measurements. As much as 2x longer. As I stated earlier, Don't use one of the small "chain checker" guages to measure a Campy chain, it will falsely indicate a premature wearout.
> 
> Maybe one day, Campy or else someone will start offering a Go/NoGo guage that is intended for the Campy spec (Measure between bushings/rollers of 6 outer plate links, the max allowed is 132.60 mm.)
> 
> Earlier you were asking about crankset weight limits. I've not read of any weight limits in Campy's tech documents. You're probably fine, but just the same don't use the the SuperRecord _titanium_ axle version (an ultra-$$ option).
> There are a some Ti-axle pedals on the market that do have a weight limit of ~180 lbs or so. Stick with chromoly steel or stainless steel pedal axles.



Awesome! It sounds like Campy wins in the chain department too  !

I definitely agree on the Ti BB axle; too flexy.


I was checking prices on Competitive Cyclist website. Chorus vs. Record price=$740 difference  ! 

Would a set up like all Chorus with R/SR shifters and rear DR work?


Thanks again for the tech!


----------



## kbwh

You can mix the bits from the three groups as you please.


----------



## tom_h

cda 455 said:


> ...
> I was checking prices on Competitive Cyclist website. Chorus vs. Record price=$740 difference !
> 
> Would a set up like all Chorus with R/SR shifters and rear DR work?
> ...


11sp Chorus & up components are fully compatible, except for 1 minor point: SR cranks must be used only with SR BB cups, due to different cup seal differences that accompany the all-ceramic SR bearings. 

You really should check out UK internet retailers Ribble, Wiggle, and ShinyBikes. All are reputable and well-established, and their prices are significantly lower than any USA price. Concerns on "duties", shipping, and payments are largely overblown, go see in the "Hot Deals" sub-forum.


----------



## cda 455

kbwh said:


> You can mix the bits from the three groups as you please.


O.K., thanks.


Besides a weight difference, are there an performance advantage between the three?


----------



## kbwh

Chorus has all steel cassettes, which are cheaper and have longer wear life. 
The Al and Ti bolts on SR seem to have better corrosion resistance than the other two. 
That's all I can think of.


----------



## Drew Eckhardt

cda 455 said:


> Awesome! It sounds like Campy wins in the chain department too  !
> 
> I definitely agree on the Ti BB axle; too flexy.
> 
> 
> I was checking prices on Competitive Cyclist website. Chorus vs. Record price=$740 difference  !


Note that you generally don't want to buy Campagnolo parts from America due to outrageous markups in our distribution channels.

Chorus and Record gruppos are 1200 and $1700 respectively from Ribble in the UK.

Shipping via Royal Mail often costs about the same and takes about as long to get parts from the UK to California as UPS does within the US.



> Would a set up like all Chorus with R/SR shifters and rear DR work?


Yes although you might want to note the actual differences between the groups before doing that.

Record shifters are identical to Chorus apart from having "Record" printed on the brake blades, the '11' in a flashy red color, and the two sexy cut-outs at the top of the brake levers. Both weigh 337 grams a pair.

Super Record shifters are identical to Record apart from getting the "Super" prefix, a third brake-blade cut-out, and titanium rear ratchets in the shifters which bring the weight down to 330g.


----------



## cda 455

kbwh said:


> Chorus has all steel cassettes, which are cheaper and have longer wear life.
> The Al and Ti bolts on SR seem to have better corrosion resistance than the other two.
> That's all I can think of.



So they all three shift/perform with the same smoothness?


----------



## cda 455

Drew Eckhardt said:


> Note that you generally don't want to buy Campagnolo parts from America due to outrageous markups in our distribution channels.
> 
> *Chorus and Record gruppos are 1200 and $1700 respectively from Ribble in the UK.*
> 
> Shipping via Royal Mail often costs about the same and takes about as long to get parts from the UK to California as UPS does within the US.
> 
> 
> 
> Yes although you might want to note the actual differences between the groups before doing that.
> 
> Record shifters are identical to Chorus apart from having "Record" printed on the brake blades, the '11' in a flashy red color, and the two sexy cut-outs at the top of the brake levers. Both weigh 337 grams a pair.
> 
> Super Record shifters are identical to Record apart from getting the "Super" prefix, a third brake-blade cut-out, and titanium rear ratchets in the shifters which bring the weight down to 330g.


Holy smokes, if I can get a Record groupset for $1700 plus shipping that would be fantastic  ! The Chorus sells for $1745 at Competitive Cyclist.


I've already asked it but I'll ask the question again: Do you think the aluminum parts of Chorus could/would outlast the CF parts of Record and Super Record? In durability, that is.


Thanks again for your input :thumbsup: !


----------



## kbwh

cda 455 said:


> So they all three shift/perform with the same smoothness?


I'd say tactility instead of smoothness. Campagnolo gives clear mechanical feedback to the rider, quite different from Shimano. 
All three give the same feel.

The Al outer plate of the Chorus FD might be stiffer than the other two, but CF lasts long and scratches can easily be touched up with some clear nail varnish.


----------



## flatlander_48

One other difference between Campagnolo and Shimano that I forgot to mention relates to the brakes. You open the calipers by sliding a pin that passes through the brake levers. It allows the brake lever to go beyond its normal rest position. The difference is that Shimano has a release actually on the caliper. However, what this means is that you could use whatever brakes you wanted because you don't need the release on the caliper.


----------



## kbwh

The Campagnolo solution is very nice if you have to open it because of an untrue wheel: there is no loss of braking power.


----------



## Pirx

kbwh said:


> The Campagnolo solution is very nice if you have to open it because of an untrue wheel: there is no loss of braking power.


Which can be a crucial safety feature: If you suddenly realize that you forgot to re-tighten the brake release on Shimano or SRAM, which will typically happen when you _really _need that braking power since there's otherwise no indication that anything is wrong, you're screwed, because you simply can't brake anymore. _Very_ bad thing; as they put it so lovely in the manual, this can result in serious injury or death...

With Campy, first of all you should notice that something is wrong by the unusual position of the brake lever, but even if you're dense enough to not get the hint for some reason, you still have the full braking power available to save your ass.


----------



## cda 455

Pirx said:


> Which can be a crucial safety feature: If you suddenly realize that you forgot to re-tighten the brake release on Shimano or SRAM, which will typically happen when you _really _need that braking power since there's otherwise no indication that anything is wrong, you're screwed, because you simply can't brake anymore. _Very_ bad thing; as they put it so lovely in the manual, this can result in serious injury or death...
> 
> With Campy, first of all you should notice that something is wrong by the unusual position of the brake lever, but even if you're dense enough to not get the hint for some reason, you still have the full braking power available to save your ass.



Very interesting.

Thanks for sharing the tip :thumbsup: !


----------



## seaswood

*Centaur*

I am also a nooB on the road bike forums my present Le Champion is too large.
Although has NR Campagnolo derailers.

Going to put a Centaur 10s crank on a Serotta frame, does the rear sprocket matter which group is used Centaur 10s or other? Assuming needs yo be a 10 speed version.

There is a Vuelta XRP wheel used with a Campognolo 12T, can this be used with a Centaur sprocket/crank. 
Could use the Nuvo Record derailers or another group.

Thanx


----------



## orange_julius

seaswood said:


> I am also a nooB on the road bike forums my present Le Champion is too large.
> Although has NR Campagnolo derailers.
> 
> Going to put a Centaur 10s crank on a Serotta frame, does the rear sprocket matter which group is used Centaur 10s or other? Assuming needs yo be a 10 speed version.
> 
> There is a Vuelta XRP wheel used with a Campognolo 12T, can this be used with a Centaur sprocket/crank.
> Could use the Nuvo Record derailers or another group.
> 
> Thanx


All Campagnolo 10-speed sprockets will work with all newer Campagnolo 10-speed drivetrains. Cranksets are almost interchangeable as long as the BB is compatible. Is this what you are asking? 

For older rear derailleurs, in addition to having to be 10-speed, some of them have limits on the largest cog on the sprocket you can use. Go to the Campagnolo website to download year-specific instructions to make sure.


----------



## Dajianshan

I have just over a year since I switched from Shimano to Campy. I will never go back. Every shift is still flawless, even after a year of some heavy riding on the same chain. I finally switched the chain out. I also cleaned out some gunk from the flywheels and couldn't believe I hadn't noticed anything amiss in the shifting. I had one dropped chain about two weeks into riding Campy. The thumb tabs are excellent for a lazy guy like myself with short fingers and a penchant for shifting with my pinky. I can access a shift from anywhere on the bars. I love my Chorus. Not to mention putting in 150 miles of hard riding in total comfort with those ergonomically dreamy grips.


----------



## pmf

Ah, the old Campy versus Shimano debate. How many decades has it been going on?

It brings out strong emotions for some people. 

My take, having owned both is that they're both (probably SRAM too) very good. They will both last a long time. They function a bit differently, so it's mostly personal preference. If you can get a chance to try each system, do so. I doubt, if you're being objective, you'll find one vastly superior to the other in terms of performance. 

You probably don't need Record or Dura Ace unless you just want the best and money is no object. The one step down groups -- Chorus and Ultegra -- are very good. The price difference will save you enough money for a nice set of wheels. It certianly isn't worth the weight savings. 

If you're going through your LBS, I'd find what they get for Campy here in the U.S. pretty hard to swallow. You can get Campy groups much cheaper from one of those UK vendors (I've used ribble.com). For that reason, you'll probably have a hard time finding a Campy bike to test ride. Maybe you can find a friend or friend of a friend who will let you borrow his bike.


----------



## seaswood

orange_julius said:


> All Campagnolo 10-speed sprockets will work with all newer Campagnolo 10-speed drivetrains. Cranksets are almost interchangeable as long as the BB is compatible. Is this what you are asking?
> 
> For older rear derailleurs, in addition to having to be 10-speed, some of them have limits on the largest cog on the sprocket you can use. Go to the Campagnolo website to download year-specific instructions to make sure.


Yes probably will go for new drive train & brakes from ribble.com.
Was going to mix parts but seems apparent Campagnolo is the way to go.

Anyone know what Campagnolo 12T sprocket means?


----------



## kbwh

Probably relates to a cassette lockring for a cassette with a 12 tooth smallest sprocket (e.g 12-27) IIRC Campagnolo includes a lockring for an 11 tooth smallest sprocket with cassettes that starts out with an 11 tooth sprocket (e.g 11-23).


----------



## Sven_Nijs

twelve tooth.
i.e 12-23 cassette rather than 11-21.


----------



## flatlander_48

Dajianshan said:


> I have just over a year since I switched from Shimano to Campy. I will never go back. Every shift is still flawless, even after a year of some heavy riding on the same chain. I finally switched the chain out. I also cleaned out some gunk from the flywheels and couldn't believe I hadn't noticed anything amiss in the shifting. I had one dropped chain about two weeks into riding Campy. The thumb tabs are excellent for a lazy guy like myself with short fingers and a penchant for shifting with my pinky. I can access a shift from anywhere on the bars. I love my Chorus. Not to mention putting in 150 miles of hard riding in total comfort with those *ergonomically dreamy grips*.


Amen.


----------



## SaddleTime

Four quick things:

1) Regarding Athena 11 shifters, they used to be Ultra Shift in 2010 before they changed to Power Shift in 2011. I recently bought some new 2010 Ultra Shift Athena 11 shifters from Velo Mine so that the shifting would be like my '10 Ultra Shift SR11 gruppo. They still have them as part of an Athena 11 gruppo (currently on sale for $900) or separately for around $185.

2) I mentioned this in another thread, but one thing I've appreciated about the 11-speed cassettes is not the ability to fill in gaps between 17T-19T, 19T-21T, 21T-23T, etc. (which never really bothered me too much anyway), but instead to provide a little extra range of gearing: this gives the traditional 12-25 that I was already used to and happy with, and adds an extra 27T to give the ability to spin up hills and avoid shifting between chainrings as much.

3) Regarding the carbon cranks versus the aluminum, it appears that the anti-wear/anti-corrosion treatment has been reserved for the carbon cranks' rings. [Once again the Athena cranks used to be available in the aluminum and carbon versions in 2010.] I don't have any empirical or scientific data regarding the relative wear rates between my SR11 rings and the rings on my old Ultegra 6600 cranks but I can tell you that the SR11 rings LOOK relatively unscathed after more kms than my Ultegra rings did.

4) Finally, [when will this guy shut up?] as long as I don't need to worry about my next contract, I look at this whole riding thing as an enjoyable luxury pursuit. To me spending an extra $500 to be really comfortable doing what involves great effort for long periods of time is fully justified: if improved shifting ergonomics, reliability and the comfort of your saddle cost a bit extra, I'll gladly pony up. And my experience with this stuff has, so far, made me happy to have gone the route I did...

Cheers, and best of luck with your build.


----------



## seaswood

*tools*

Tools needed to change BB & rear sprocket, campy specific.
Anyone have information or links so I can get tools when I order parts.
I have a pin wrench but some instruction alluded to a bigger wrench for sprocket.
& BB.
I hav no doubt it is here somewhere :mad2:

orange_julius;3880716]All Campagnolo 10-speed sprockets will work with all newer Campagnolo 10-speed drivetrains. Cranksets are almost interchangeable as long as the BB is compatible. Is this what you are asking? 
Yes.
For older rear derailleurs, in addition to having to be 10-speed, some of them have limits on the largest cog on the sprocket you can use. Go to the Campagnolo website to download year-specific instructions to make sure.[/QUOTE]


----------



## Sven_Nijs

Google is your friend 
If buying your other stuff from Ribble:
Campagnolo TOOLS at Ribble Cycles
You should only need the tool at the top as I think the Centaur BB is the same as old Chorus/Record but happy to be corrected.


----------



## cda 455

Sven_Nijs said:


> Google is your friend
> If buying your other stuff from Ribble:
> Campagnolo TOOLS at Ribble Cycles
> You should only need the tool at the top as I think the Centaur BB is the same as old Chorus/Record but happy to be corrected.



Awesome!

Thanks for the tip :thumbsup: !


----------



## cda 455

Tech question:

If I want a SR cranks in 180mm and SR TT/Tri chainrings in 42/55, would said chainrings mount to said crankset?


----------



## seaswood

*arm length: 175mm chainrings: 52/39t material: aluminum*

Another new to new Campagnolo question.
Is there any reason the new ultra drive cassette & chain would not work with albeit new but older crank Centaur?
not ultra drive
arm length: 175mm
chainrings: 52/39t
material: aluminum
this would be matched with a 2012 Centaur set of derailers.


----------



## orange_julius

seaswood said:


> Another new to new Campagnolo question.
> Is there any reason the new ultra drive cassette & chain would not work with albeit new but older crank Centaur?
> not ultra drive
> arm length: 175mm
> chainrings: 52/39t
> material: aluminum
> this would be matched with a 2012 Centaur set of derailers.


Should be fine. And you meant to say that the older-model Centaur crankset is not Ultra Torque, right?


----------



## seaswood

orange_julius said:


> Should be fine. And you meant to say that the older-model Centaur crankset is not Ultra Torque, right?


Yes older crank not Ultra Torque, before i order rear sprocket & chain.
to go with Serotta frame, Mavic kyrium SL wheels so far.
Thanx


----------



## cda 455

New nOOB question:


Do I need a Campagnolo hub/Campagnolo axle to run Campagnolo 11 cassettes?


----------



## kbwh

DT Swiss, Chris King, Mavic, Tune, and several 'lesser' brands all make C11-compatible (free-)hubs or wheels.
The current Campagnolo freehub spline pattern is compatible with their 9, 10 and 11 speed groups.


----------



## cda 455

kbwh said:


> DT Swiss, Chris King, Mavic, Tune, and several 'lesser' brands all make C11-compatible (free-)hubs or wheels.
> The current Campagnolo freehub spline pattern is compatible with their 9, 10 and 11 speed groups.


Awesome!

Thanks for the reply and suggestions :thumbsup: !





*New nOOB tech question  :*

If I buy the SR EPS in individual pieces (As in buying from Wiggle), will I have to buy the battery&charger, wiring harness, etc. separately as well?


Secondary question: Is this how one usually buys the groupset; by individual component purchase?


----------



## tom_h

cda 455 said:


> New nOOB question:
> Do I need a Campagnolo hub/Campagnolo axle to run Campagnolo 11 cassettes?


As stated, Yes, you need a Campy-compatible freehub.

What I wanted to add is, some wheel/hub combinations can be very tight on clearances. 
Check w/ the wheel Mfr to ensure they claim it is "Campag 11 speed compatible".

My Zipp 404 (188 hub) is one such wheel -- rear derailler has to be setup very carefully, since there's not much clearance between spokes & the RD. After consulting w/ Zipp, I added 1 extra of their 0.25 mm spacers behind the freehub.


----------



## tom_h

cda 455 said:


> If I buy the SR EPS in individual pieces (As in buying from Wiggle), will I have to buy the battery&charger, wiring harness, etc. separately as well?
> 
> Secondary question: Is this how one usually buys the groupset; by individual component purchase?


1) Don't know.

2) Retailers sell groupsets both ways, pre-kitted and by individual pieces. It's worth pricing both ways, even from the same retailer, because one method can noticeably cheaper. 

Not that hard to spec out individual pieces. Starting from scratch, you'd typically need:
Crankset (bearings are included and pressed on)
Bottom bracket cups
brake/shift levers (includes all cables).
front derailler
rear derailler
cassette
chain
brake calipers (usually sold in sets of front & rear).


----------



## flatlander_48

cda 455 said:


> If I buy the SR EPS in individual pieces (As in buying from Wiggle), will I have to buy the battery&charger, wiring harness, etc. separately as well?


From what I have seen from the various resellers is either by individual components or by groupset. There is no other choice like Electronics Components Group. Not saying that someone couldn't decide to do that, but so far no one has. If I do EPS, my thinking was the same. I would buy the electronics hardware separately as I currently have a Chorus set up.



cda 455 said:


> Secondary question: Is this how one usually buys the groupset; by individual component purchase?


There are usually 3 ways:


Individual drivetrain pieces to make up a groupset
Groupset: drivetrain components usually of the same level; i.e. Ultegra, Chorus, Force, etc.
Build Kit: drivetrain components, wheels, tires, handlebars, etc.; essentially everything you would need to build a bike excluding the frame and fork.


----------



## karhu

I'm planning to install full 2012 super record on my bike. What tools do I need for this job?


----------



## orange_julius

karhu said:


> I'm planning to install full 2012 super record on my bike. What tools do I need for this job?


Cable & Housing cutter.
Metric hex keys.
T25.
Campagnolo UT BB tool.
Campagniolo cassette tool.
A long-reach 10mm hex driver for the UT BB center bolt, preferably with torque wrench.
Philips screwdriver.

Am I forgetting anything?


----------



## castofone

Depending on the frame's BB, if its BSA you will be installing outboard cups. The cup spanner required is the same for Shimano and SRAM, so you can get a cheap tool for that. You can torque it accurately with weights. If you want to use a torque wrench you probably have to use the special Campy socket instead. Or get the LBS to do it.
If its BB30 or PF30 you will be fitting Campie's press fit cups. You can press them with a suitable bolt and a couple of big washers. You don't need the special tool.


----------



## TopQuark

Cable pullers also helps a lot.

Definitely need a torque meters. For low torque, invest in the best - CDI Torque wrench 1502LDIN. It goes up to 18nm.

You'll need a short reach T25 torx or hex also. They must be attached to torque wrench - very important. You'll use this a lot for brifters, stem, and brakes install or installation using carbon fiber components.

Don't forget the chain link installer! You can just get missing link KMC's or if you decide to use the Campy solution, a cheap alternative is the Lezyne 11 speed chain tool that can be had for ~$30.

If you are installing the headset or fork, that another story - a whole bunch of tools are needed.


----------



## DocRogers

Tom, my friendly FedEx driver, just brought my new Record 11 group for my C40 project today. 8 years since I last built a bike with Campy. Man, this stuff is like jewelry! Beautiful. I know it won't make me any faster, but it's worth it nonetheless. Thumbs up to Ben at Velomine!


----------



## flatlander_48

DocRogers said:


> Tom, my friendly FedEx driver, just brought my new Record 11 group for my C40 project today. 8 years since I last built a bike with Campy. Man, *this stuff is like jewelry! *Beautiful. I know it won't make me any faster, but it's worth it nonetheless. Thumbs up to Ben at Velomine!


Amen...


----------



## cda 455

DocRogers said:


> Tom, my friendly FedEx driver, just brought my new Record 11 group for my C40 project today. 8 years since I last built a bike with Campy. Man, this stuff is like jewelry! Beautiful. I know it won't make me any faster, but it's worth it nonetheless. Thumbs up to Ben at Velomine!



May I ask how much it set you back  ?


----------



## karhu

Thanks a lot for very helpful responses! 



TopQuark said:


> Cable pullers also helps a lot.
> 
> Definitely need a torque meters. For low torque, invest in the best - CDI Torque wrench 1502LDIN. It goes up to 18nm.
> 
> You'll need a short reach T25 torx or hex also. They must be attached to torque wrench - very important. You'll use this a lot for brifters, stem, and brakes install or installation using carbon fiber components.
> 
> Don't forget the chain link installer! You can just get missing link KMC's or if you decide to use the Campy solution, a cheap alternative is the Lezyne 11 speed chain tool that can be had for ~$30.
> 
> If you are installing the headset or fork, that another story - a whole bunch of tools are needed.





castofone said:


> Depending on the frame's BB, if its BSA you will be installing outboard cups. The cup spanner required is the same for Shimano and SRAM, so you can get a cheap tool for that. You can torque it accurately with weights. If you want to use a torque wrench you probably have to use the special Campy socket instead. Or get the LBS to do it.
> If its BB30 or PF30 you will be fitting Campie's press fit cups. You can press them with a suitable bolt and a couple of big washers. You don't need the special tool.





orange_julius said:


> Cable & Housing cutter.
> Metric hex keys.
> T25.
> Campagnolo UT BB tool.
> Campagniolo cassette tool.
> A long-reach 10mm hex driver for the UT BB center bolt, preferably with torque wrench.
> Philips screwdriver.
> 
> Am I forgetting anything?


----------



## cda 455

If I want to use a Campagnolo cassette, do I have to use a Campagnolo hub only or does anyone make a Campagnolo-compatible rear hub?


----------



## cda 455

cda 455 said:


> If I want to use a Campagnolo cassette, do I have to use a Campagnolo hub only or does anyone make a Campagnolo-compatible rear hub?



Update: Found my answer!


----------



## cda 455

I started a thread over in the Retro-Classic Forum regarding a Raleigh Gran Sport with all Campagnolo components.


I would like to ask the Campagnolo crowd here their opinion and suggestions:

http://forums.roadbikereview.com/retro-classic/raleigh-gran-sport-worth-$1199-296612.html


Thanks  !


----------



## ultraman6970

Not to me.

Did u manage to get the bike together or something?


----------



## cda 455

ultraman6970 said:


> Not to me.
> 
> Did u manage to get the bike together or something?


Negative.


For some reason, frames on eBay are either 55cm or 64cm in size! My size is between 58cm to 61cm.

Not to mention I finally got up to par on frame material differences.


I'm currently following some Ti frames on eBay.


----------



## Fai Mao

mackgoo said:


> Keep in mind every Campy component you buy can be rebuilt and will virtually last forever.


Geez, sometimes I wish that wasn't true. One of my bike has Campy 8 speed Bullet shifters on it.


----------



## Fai Mao

The Campagnolo website says the Vento Reaction CX wheels will take a 35 mm wide tire. The Campy brakes won't, at least not the side pull ones - I use Tektro brakes


----------



## kbwh

Campagnolo has canti brakes in the lineup. Rebranded stuff though.


----------



## cda 455

Bringing this back from the dead  .


I just bought a '90s Cannondale RB frame with a Sugino BB. It's still in the mail so I don't physically have it yet.

I'm ordering the Potenza 11 groupset and need to know the Campagnolo BB that will work with said frame. 


I'll assume the Cannondale BB is English threads. 


Can anyone help me with which Campy BB to order?


Thanks!


----------



## bikerjulio

Not sure why you would bury the question in the middle of a 5 year old thread, but anyway you need a Power Torque English threaded BB that would presumably be offered with the group.


----------



## pmf

bikerjulio said:


> Not sure why you would bury the question in the middle of a 5 year old thread, but anyway you need a Power Torque English threaded BB that would presumably be offered with the group.


They call them cups these days. Like Julio said, they should come with the group unless you specify something different. I assume the Cannondale has a standard threaded bottom bracket shell and not an over sized BB30. I buy all my Campy groups from Ribble and just specify either English or Italian threading. 

Campagnolo Potenza Black 11 Speed Double Groupset - Road Groupsets - Ribble Cycles


----------



## bikerjulio

pmf said:


> They call them cups these days. Like Julio said, they should come with the group unless you specify something different. I assume the Cannondale has a standard threaded bottom bracket shell and not an over sized BB30.





> I just bought a '90s Cannondale RB frame with a Sugino BB


I was going by OP's description. Cannondale didn't introduce BB30 until 2000 on their highest end frames.

It's threaded, and it's English.

Not sure why anybody would want to lavish a '90's Cannondale with a nice groupset, but that's another discussion.


----------



## cda 455

pmf said:


> They call them cups these days. Like Julio said, they should come with the group unless you specify something different. I assume the Cannondale has a standard threaded bottom bracket shell and not an over sized BB30. I buy all my Campy groups from Ribble and just specify either English or Italian threading.
> 
> Campagnolo Potenza Black 11 Speed Double Groupset - Road Groupsets - Ribble Cycles


I just bought a Veloce crankset and BB Power Torque cups.

What is the spring that comes with one of the cups for?


I've looked at Campagnolo's install instructions and it doesn't even claim it's existence  .


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## bikerjulio

cda 455 said:


> I just bought a Veloce crankset and BB Power Torque cups.
> 
> What is the spring that comes with one of the cups for?
> 
> 
> I've looked at Campagnolo's install instructions and it doesn't even claim it's existence  .


Shows it pretty clearly in the user manual https://www.campagnolo.com/media/files/035_99_User_manual_crankset__power_torque_10s_Campagnolo_08_12%20-%20Copia.pdf

And install it in the exact order of assembly that they show. In case it's not clear, you put the spring on the cup with the ends just next to the holes. Install the DS crank and spindle, and while making sure the bearing is fully seated in the cup, push the spring ends into the holes. This retains the crank in place, preventing lateral movement. You can test to see if you have it right by trying to pull the crank out.


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## cda 455

bikerjulio said:


> Shows it pretty clearly in the user manual https://www.campagnolo.com/media/fi...power_torque_10s_Campagnolo_08_12 - Copia.pdf
> 
> And install it in the order of assembly that they show. In case it's not clear, you put the spring on the cup with the ends just next to the holes. Install the DS crank and spindle, and while making sure the bearing is fully seated in the cup, push the spring ends into the holes. This retains the crank in place, preventing lateral movement.


I'm sorry; I forgot about that 'spring' (I thought of it as a 'clip' not a spring) :blush2: .


What I'm referring to looks like a very short valve spring (Like in an engine head). 

The material is flat. 

It's like it has a very thin washer on each end with a spiraling spring in the middle.

Both cups are still sealed; one cup has the retaining spring (That you referred to) and the other cup has the spring-in-question.


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## bikerjulio

cda 455 said:


> I'm sorry; I forgot about that 'spring' (I thought of it as a 'clip' not a spring) :blush2: .
> 
> 
> What I'm referring to looks like a very short valve spring (Like in an engine head).
> 
> The material is flat.
> 
> It's like it has a very thin washer on each end with a spiraling spring in the middle.
> 
> Both cups are still sealed; one cup has the retaining spring (That you referred to) and the other cup has the spring-in-question.


I believe that the spring you refer to is in step 11 of the manual. it provides some preload to the NDS bearing.

(Usual poor translation here. "install crank on to *pivot*")


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## cda 455

bikerjulio said:


> I believe that is the spring you refer to in step 11 of the manual. it provides some preload to the NDS bearing.


AH!


So is the spring-in-question item 'F' in step 11?

And the fastener/nut is 'G'?



> "Insert the spring and gasket into the pivot (Fig.11)"




Here's something kind of confusing:

Fig.11 shows gasket/crankarm/spring/screw

The instructions say spring/gasket/crankarm/screw


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## bikerjulio

cda 455 said:


> AH!
> 
> 
> So is the spring-in-question item 'F' in step 11?
> 
> And the fastener/nut is 'G'?
> 
> Here's something kind of confusing:
> 
> Fig.11 shows gasket/crankarm/spring/screw
> 
> The instructions say spring/gasket/crankarm/screw


NO. The wavy washer/gasket thing goes onto the spindle BEFORE the NDS crank.

Campy instructions have been confusing everyone for ever. Welcome to the club.


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## cda 455

bikerjulio said:


> Campy instructions have been confusing everyone for ever. Welcome to the club.


:lol:

So; are we on the right path here?


Does the spring go on the inside of the crank arm or on the outside of said crank arm.


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## bikerjulio

The spring and gasket go on the INSIDE of the NDS crank just like the instructions say.

Please just read step 11 again.


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## cda 455

bikerjulio said:


> The spring and gasket go on the INSIDE of the NDS crank just like the instructions say.
> 
> Please just read step 11 again.


O.K.; thanks


Is this consistent with all of Campagnolo's installs? 

Trust the install words and not the diagram?


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## bikerjulio

cda 455 said:


> O.K.; thanks
> 
> 
> Is this consistent with all of Campagnolo's installs?
> 
> Trust the install words and not the diagram?


The diagram shows it. It's just not identified by name. It is your interpretation of the drawing that is wrong.

It's actually quite well drawn. Obviously their attempt at making things idiot proof didn't go far enough in your case


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