# Broken rivet in cable guide on aluminum frame - how to fix?



## armstrong (Jul 9, 2013)

Hi folks

Two rivets hold down a cable guide and one is broken, so the cable is being held, but it needs something done.

View image: DSC00610
View image: DSC00611

Any idea how to fix this? I'm not open to the idea of opening up the tube and doing a re-rivet (i.e. anything involving welding). If the option is gluing it, can anyone suggest the exact best glue for this (as I hopefully want it to be done right the first go-round and not make a mess of things by having it come undone).

Thanks in advance.


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## cxwrench (Nov 9, 2004)

Shift housing stop? Glue it. JB Weld. 

It would be easy to re-rivet as well. Not sure what you mean by 'opening up the tube', all you have to do is push the remaining part of the rivet through the tube, and install a new one. You'd want to pull the bb and shake out the part you pushed through, but that's easy. You'd also need an extender for the rivet gun to work w/ the housing stop, but that's easy as well. 

The only problem w/ gluing it back on is that it looks like you'd be gluing it paint, not the actual tube. If some of that glue gets into the existing hole that would help secure it. I wouldn't glue it if it was a brake housing stop, but for the derailleur it's not really a safety issue.


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## armstrong (Jul 9, 2013)

cxwrench said:


> Shift housing stop? Glue it. JB Weld.
> 
> It would be easy to re-rivet as well. Not sure what you mean by 'opening up the tube', all you have to do is push the remaining part of the rivet through the tube, and install a new one. You'd want to pull the bb and shake out the part you pushed through, but that's easy. You'd also need an extender for the rivet gun to work w/ the housing stop, but that's easy as well.
> 
> The only problem w/ gluing it back on is that it looks like you'd be gluing it paint, not the actual tube. If some of that glue gets into the existing hole that would help secure it. I wouldn't glue it if it was a brake housing stop, but for the derailleur it's not really a safety issue.


Oh - you see I brought the bike into to the local LBS for a basic tune up and just in-passing mentioned it. He said to re-rivet it, it would mean like opening up the tube/bike, doing the rivet, re-welding everything back together. I guess you're telling me that's not necessary (!). With that in mind, does any of your "advice" change?

It's the cable housing stop on the top tube for the rear brake (it's the stop closest to the seat tube on the top tube). So I need to find someone who can do rivets is all you are saying? Can the part that gets pushed into the tube get removed via the seat tube or downtube? Does the top tube open up to the other tubes inside the frame?


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## bikerjulio (Jan 19, 2010)

A pop rivet is installed from one side. Known as a blind fastener. No need to open anything up.

Definitely it should not be used until fixed.

So. Punch the old rivet in. Yes there is probably an opening to the seat tube.

Install new pop rivet of the correct size.


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## Gregory Taylor (Mar 29, 2002)

The person at the LBS who told you that you would have to "open up" the tubing of the bike to put in a pop-rivet and then "re-weld" it back together should be kept away from the shop area of the store because he/she doesn't know what they are talking about. 

Cable stops are often attached to aluminum frames by what's known as a "pop" or blind rivet. A regular solid rivet (a'la Rosie the Riveter from WWII) holds things together by hammering on one side and using a bucking bar or a set on the other. You need access to both sides of the joint to make this work. A pop rivet is designed for use in areas where you only have access to one side of the joint. Rivets used to hold cable stops are almost always pop rivets.

If it was me, I would do the following:

- based on the pictures, I'd drill out the remaining rivet and start afresh. Just use the drill bit to buzz off the rivet head. I'd then use a pair of pliers to grab the shaft of the rivet and pull it out. I'd do it this way (rather than push it through the hole and into the frame) because you might not be able to retrieve it once you are done, especially if this is on the top tube. It would rattle around in the frame and drive you nuts. It would me. 

- If the frame is aluminum, I'd go ahead and put a dab of JB weld or epoxy on the errant cable stop, and reinstall it with a new pair of rivets. I might carefully sand through the paint in the area between the two rivet holes in the frame so that the glue bonds to something solid. Use aluminum rivets - not steel. A steel rivet in an aluminium frame would eventually create an issue with galvanic corrosion where the two are joined.

- If the frame is carbon...I dunno. I don't know if epoxy or JB Weld would react badly with the carbon fiber. I'd risk the glue and try another pop-rivet and see what happened. Install c-a-r-e-f-u-l-l-y. CAVEAT: I don't own a carbon bike and I've never used pop-rivets or reinstalled cable stops on a frame made from the devil's own material. Hell, it may explode if you try this. Don't blame me if it catches fire, shatters, or goes for your throat. That is the price you pay when you sell your soul for a few ounces of weight.

EDIT:

Thinking about this, and re-reading your posts in this thread, it sounds like this job might be beyond your comfort level to pull off successfuly. If that's the case, I'd take the bike to a shop that you trust and, educated by our collective wisdom, have a conversation with the head mechanic. Oh, and definitely avoid the yutz who said that you had to "reweld" the frame. Sheesh. 

Second point - is this a new or new-ish frame? It may still be under warranty. Might be worth a conversation with the shop that you bought it from.


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## Camilo (Jun 23, 2007)

Ditto to the advice that it should be a very easy fix, glued and/or riveted.

In the mean time, what I'd do immediately is to tape the thing in place so you don't rip out the other rivet - possibly making an ugly ragged hole in the process.

One final thought for something that would (in my opinion) hold it tight indefinitely, is very cheap and can be removed if you should decide you need to - the double sided tape made by 3m and maybe others that is used to hold trim on car bodies. You can buy it in any auto parts stores and most big box department stores.

It is very easy to use, thin enough to be invisible in your application and in my experience, is extremely strong and durable in very tough environmental conditions. I have used a couple pieces of it to hold an item on the transom of my boat and it's lasted several years (at least 10 so far) in a marine environment. The item I fastened takes a lot more pressure and vibration than a derailleur cable stop. If you want to remove it, you heat it up with a heat gun or hair dryer and it will peel off.


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## Gregory Taylor (Mar 29, 2002)

Camilo said:


> The item I fastened takes a lot more pressure and vibration than a derailleur cable stop.



The OP said in his second post that this was a stop for the rear brake cable, located on the top tube. Personally, while tape is a cool idea, I might not break it out (pun intended) for that one. He's already pulled a riveted stop out of the frame...

EDIT:

Well I certainly don't win the Components & Wrenching Reading Comprehension Award. The OP said in his first post that the frame was aluminum. And there I go, blathering on about what to do if his frame is carbon fiber. DERP, DERP, DERP...


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## PlatyPius (Feb 1, 2009)

It's a pop-rivet. I assume the head broke off, so that means there's a mushroomed bit of aluminum stuck in your frame. You'll have to push it in...there's no way to pull it out. I'm guessing that there isn't a very large hole at the junction with the seat tube. You'll have to shake the hell out of your frame to get it out via the seat tube or maybe the head tube. Then it's a simple matter of putting in another pop-rivet. Takes about 15 seconds to do the riveting. The time-eater is getting the old one out.

I'm guessing that rather than idiocy, the shop guy was embellishing the process so he could charge more.
If it's an easy, straight-forward rivet job, I charge $10. If I have to pull the fork to get the old bit out, it's $30.


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## armstrong (Jul 9, 2013)

You know, it "looks" like an easy fix. Broken rivet? Fix it! That's why I just mentioned it in passing to the LBS guy. Then when I got the reply, that's when I thought I had a much more difficult repair on my hands (which is why I came here). Unwelding the tubes and welding it all back together??? I'll get a new bike!!!

Anyhoos - yes I will be re-visiting an LBS (I think another one that I used to go to) and asking pretty clearly how they would go about fixing this (i.e. do they have a pop rivet applicator?). 

I'm starting to think that a broken rivet repair isn't typically of the complexity that necessitates a thread of this discussion depth (but you can see how it happened...). Thanks for everyone's input!

Edit:
Looking around on Ebay, it seems rivet guns aren't expensive things at all. Depending on how adventurous I feel, I may consider following the instructions given above and trying the fix myself.


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## ericm979 (Jun 26, 2005)

I would not ride that. That stop's going to break off (and possibly dent the frame on the way) when the brake is applied hard. It's a brake failure waiting to happen. Do you want to die? I'm surprised that the shop just "mentioned" it to you. 

No "opening up" tubing(!) or welding required. However the broken part of the old rivet may end up in the frame where it can't be removed.

I would not make a safety-critical rivet as my first experience with the technogy. Take it to someone who's done it a bunch. Do not JB-weld or glue it, that's not good enough for brakes. As others said, have your experienced guy remove the good rivet and re-rivet the part.


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## cxwrench (Nov 9, 2004)

armstrong said:


> You know, it "looks" like an easy fix. Broken rivet? Fix it! That's why I just mentioned it in passing to the LBS guy. Then when I got the reply, that's when I thought I had a much more difficult repair on my hands (which is why I came here). *Unwelding the tubes *and welding it all back together??? I'll get a new bike!!!
> 
> Anyhoos - yes I will be re-visiting an LBS (I think another one that I used to go to) and asking pretty clearly how they would go about fixing this (i.e. do they have a pop rivet applicator?).
> 
> ...


"Unwelding"? No such thing on an aluminum bike. I'd strongly recommend you stay away from that shop, or least that particular employee. They are very obviously stupid. Find another shop w/ a mechanic that understands the simplicity of a rivet.


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## PlatyPius (Feb 1, 2009)

cxwrench said:


> "Unwelding"? No such thing on an aluminum bike. I'd strongly recommend you stay away from that shop, or least that particular employee. They are very obviously stupid. Find another shop w/ a mechanic that understands the simplicity of a rivet.


My shop van unburns gasoline! It will run forever!

Mya D Shopcat unsh!+s her food. I fed her once and she's been on her own since then.


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## cxwrench (Nov 9, 2004)

PlatyPius said:


> My shop van unburns gasoline! It will run forever!
> 
> Mya D Shopcat unsh!+s her food. I fed her once and she's been on her own since then.


A 'perpetual motion cat'?


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## junior1210 (May 2, 2013)

cxwrench said:


> A 'perpetual motion cat'?


Schrodinger's cousin? Or maybe KillKenny's?


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