# Surly Tuggnuts chain tensioner



## beeter

A few people at the shops have recommended the Surly Tuggnuts chain
tensioner as additional insurance against the axle
sliding out:

http://www.63xc.com/rickc/tuggnuts.htm

Does anyone have experience with this, and how useful/necessary is it?

Thanks!


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## PdxMark

A chain tensioner is a nice addition to a frame with horizontal drops. The rear wheel on my Bianchi Pista commuter would creep forward over a few weeks, regardless of how tight I had the axle nuts. The tensioner prevents that, and simplifies setting the chain tension when I remove the rear wheel.

The Surly is nice and a great design, but it is relatively expensive. I have a simple, cheap BMX-style tensioner that works fine and cost about $10.


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## Dave_Stohler

No, a chain tensioner won't work with horizontal dropouts, it only works on track ends. Your Pista has track ends.


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## harlot

Hmmm that's what my question was - will a chain tensioner work with forward-facing horizontal dropouts? I've heard they can be modified. Does anyone have details on this?

Thanks!


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## PdxMark

Dave_Stohler said:


> No, a chain tensioner won't work with horizontal dropouts, it only works on track ends. Your Pista has track ends.


Thanks for the terminology correction.


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## Cerddwyr

*Further chain tensioner question*

From the looks of the Surly, it holds the wheel solid in one position. Anyone know of a product that allows two positions, each adjustable, for use with a flipflop hub and two cog sizes? I have a 20T freewheel on my new Langster, and I plan to go to the 16T fixed cog once I get some legs. I would like to ride fixed most of the time, but on occation I would ride to my mother's house for the week-end, and that is 50 miles with some good size hills, and I think the freewheel would be in order 

Best,
Gordon


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## Dave_Stohler

A "tuggnut" chain tensioner works by pushing against the frame to tighten the chain. If you have forward-facing dropouts, it can only push toward the direction for *loosening* the chain.

In short, a device like this is pointless on a forward-facing dropout.


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## wooglin

harlot said:


> Hmmm that's what my question was - will a chain tensioner work with forward-facing horizontal dropouts? I've heard they can be modified. Does anyone have details on this?
> 
> Thanks!


Yeah, there's a tab on the tensioner that's designed to slot into the track fork end behind the axle. If you grind that off so it lays flat against the side of the horizontal dropout the set screws will push against the back of the dropout and do the job, although they will tend to splay out if there's a lot of thread exposed between the dropout and tensioner.


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## turbomatic73

redline chain tugs have 2 holes, allowing for a lot of adjustment...and they are $10 for the pair...www.danscomp.com


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## Cerddwyr

turbomatic73 said:


> redline chain tugs have 2 holes, allowing for a lot of adjustment...and they are $10 for the pair...www.danscomp.com


OK, that redline one allowed me to understand what is going on (the Surly was just too curvy, I couldn't get past how purdy it is 

So, you put your axle in which ever hole is closest to right, and the screw pushes (via a plate) against the track end to pull on the chain. It seems you have to tweak the screw each time you flip the hub, but on reflection that is minor.

Given that neither part is reviewed here (hey RBR, how about these things get added to the list of items available to review? Or are they not sold by Jensen, so they can't be on the list?), can anyone comment on FUNCTIONAL preference between the Surly and the Redline? Certainly the Surly is a thing of beauty as well as function, but at 5 times the cost, if the Redline functions well...

Lastly, in the 63xc review of the Tuggnut, the axle nut is also a thing of beauty. Not your father's heagonal nut. So, is this also a Surly product? Where can they be found? Some day I will build new wheels with the Phil Wood hubs that use a hex head screw, but for now, pretty nuts on my axles would be nice. Then again, maybe someone makes an adapter so a track hub can be converted to quick release use?

Gordon


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## Dave_Stohler

I'm betting that Surly doesn't want to pay for the listing. Besides, most of the reviews here are posted by morons anyways....


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## Cerddwyr

Dave_Stohler said:


> I'm betting that Surly doesn't want to pay for the listing. Besides, most of the reviews here are posted by morons anyways....


Holy $H!T, do the manufacturers REALLY have to pay for a listing in the reviews here? If so, that is complete BS. This board is represented as a USER REVIEW board. If anyone can verify one way or the other, it would be greatly appreciated.

Gordon


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## censone

Surly tugnuts CAN be used with forward-facing dropouts.
Place it exactly as you would on trackends, i.e. on the back of the bike - not under the chainstay. (which is what it seemed dave_stohler described)
The adjustable part sits against the solid part of the d'out instead of the open part of a trackend. It still pulls the axle backwards.
You just have to make sure it doesn't try to turn when tightening the axlenuts.

I have one on my old raliegh convert...
and if anyone wants, I could take a closeup and upload later.


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## ks1g

*yes, please post a pix!*



censone said:


> I have one on my old raliegh convert...
> and if anyone wants, I could take a closeup and upload later.


I want.  Thinking of doing the same thing. I understand you just need one on the drivetrain side.

Thanks


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## censone




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## Dave_Stohler

Well, in the words of Rosanne Rosannadanna:
"Oh, that's something completely different.........................nevermind!"

I guess the tugnut actually can work with a horizontal dropout. Unlike any other chain tensioners I've yet seen.


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## FixinInTraffic

I have never needed a chain tensioner (in many years). I'm thinking about trying one, but it ain't no thang.


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## ks1g

*Thanks!*

Just what I needed. Nice close-ups. Many thanks for posting these pix.


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## Porrick

*Niiiice conversion (nm)*

ngdfm


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## Dave_Stohler

You know, the more I look at the way you are using that tuggnut, the less secure it looks. Does it ever slide off the end? Have you modified the press block so that it is securely located laterally? 
I could see how a modified block could be relatively secure, but that setup look like a good bump is gonna let that tuggnut rotate downward and loosen the axle.


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## Cerddwyr

Dave_Stohler said:


> You know, the more I look at the way you are using that tuggnut, the less secure it looks. Does it ever slide off the end? Have you modified the press block so that it is securely located laterally?
> I could see how a modified block could be relatively secure, but that setup look like a good bump is gonna let that tuggnut rotate downward and loosen the axle.


I don't know if he did it, but I would think grinding a little notch in the back of the dropout, for the adjustment screw to seat into, would address the rotation issue.

Gordon


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## censone

Dave_Stohler said:


> You know, the more I look at the way you are using that tuggnut, the less secure it looks. Does it ever slide off the end? Have you modified the press block so that it is securely located laterally?
> I could see how a modified block could be relatively secure, but that setup look like a good bump is gonna let that tuggnut rotate downward and loosen the axle.


Nope, it's never moved.
I'm a messenger, so I ride pretty hard, all the time.
And, nope, it's not modified in any way, neither is the dropout. If it did move one day, I would probably grind a notch in the d'out, but I haven't had to so far.

When tightening the tracknut, I do have to kinda hold it in place because it would try to rotate with the nut. 
I do tighten the nut probably more than I would on trackends with the tugnut. It's a ***** to take off it's so tight!
After everything is tightened down, I always give the adjusting screw a little twist to secure it since I've had one come loose on me before (in trackends).


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## innergel

Cerddwyr said:


> Holy $H!T, do the manufacturers REALLY have to pay for a listing in the reviews here? If so, that is complete BS. This board is represented as a USER REVIEW board. If anyone can verify one way or the other, it would be greatly appreciated.
> 
> Gordon


The manufacturers do NOT have to pay to have a product listed. Any product can be listed as long as it has a connection to road biking. There is a link on the top of the reviews page that will allow you to submit a product for addition. Myself and another volunteer get all these requests and add them as necessary. The only criteria we have is that it has to be approved by the site admin first if it does not have an existing category on the board (like chain tensioners). Since this site and MTBR.com are sister sites, they usually do not want the same products posted on both formus if they better fit in one place or the other. 

I have emailed Gregg, the site admin, this thread and asked if he would like me to add these products or not. I cannot create categories or manufacturers, only add products to existing stuff. 

So just to assure everyone, no one has to pay to have their products listed.


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## Rollo Tommassi

*Um, terminology clarification?*

You're right that this device won't work with that setup, however, "Track" dropouts ARE horizontal dropouts. Vertical dropouts are those that face 'forward'.




Dave_Stohler said:


> No, a chain tensioner won't work with horizontal dropouts, it only works on track ends. Your Pista has track ends.


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## asterisk

No, there actually is no such thing as track "dropouts," they are refered to as track fork ends. Horizontal drop outs are those which have adjustment room front to back while vertical dropouts have little to no front to back adjustment.

See : <a href="http://www.sheldonbrown.com/fixed-conversion.html#vertical">Sheldon Brown's explaination...</a>


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## dyg2001

Anybody use a Tuggnut on a Cross-Check?


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## vismitananda

Damn I was about to order this tool online. Thank God I do a research before buying anything.
Is there any way I could use this on a vertical dropout? I have an SS K2 frame.


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## tihsepa

vismitananda said:


> Damn I was about to order this tool online. Thank God I do a research before buying anything.
> Is there any way I could use this on a vertical dropout? I have an SS K2 frame.


What?
This thread is 6 1/2 years old.


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## vismitananda

tihsepa said:


> What?
> This thread is 6 1/2 years old.


Well I was searching about the Tuggnut and Google lead me here. Realizing I have an account, I've just posted.


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## Jwiffle

vismitananda said:


> Damn I was about to order this tool online. Thank God I do a research before buying anything.
> Is there any way I could use this on a vertical dropout? I have an SS K2 frame.


vertical dropout? Do you mean forward facing horizontal dropout? No need for a tuggnut on a vertical dropout. If you wanted to run ss on a vertical dropout (geared frame), you need to use a spring-loaded chain tensioner that attaches to the derailleur hanger. 

For fixed gear use on a vertical dropout frame, you can get a White Industries Eric's Eccentric Eno hub or an eccentric bottom bracket (there are a couple companies that make them for standard bb shells). On the cheap - hope for a magic gear.


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