# Schwinn Paramount 60th Anniversary



## datslow (Sep 11, 2014)

Greetings,

I was given a Schwinn Paramount 60th Anniversary frame and fork this evening from a local bike co-op, and was hoping to find a bit more information regarding this frame set. I found some pretty informative threads on this forum which spurred me to literally register minutes ago, but most of these threads revolved around who built what and their respective backgrounds.

First and foremost, identification of this frame is of particular interest. How can I visually tell if this is the steel frame or the titanium frame?

From what I gathered, the 60th Anniversary badge was slapped on bikes from 1998 to 2000 or something like that? Can anyone confirm production numbers for each year?

Third, I think it would be pretty rad to restore this to its original glory all the way down to the cable housing, and with that wonderful place 'evil bay' it may be do-able for reasonable prices and patience. That being said, what was the original groupo and what not that came on these frames? Critical stuff like BB width and make are of particular importance.

I've seen some catalogs floating around, but the scan quality is hardly legible. Any help would be greatly appreciated! Let's get her back on the road!


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## xxl (Mar 19, 2002)

Lugs, vs. "single-pass welds" used in the ti version, suggest steel construction.


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## headloss (Mar 3, 2013)

steel

the titanium version doesn't have painted chain-stays. 

I believe you can also verify with a magnet?

As far as I know, no production numbers and no set ranges from one year to another... they just shipped them off as they built them. Keep googling, there are articles out there regarding the serial numbers and production although they don't shine all that much light on it.

You didn't show the serial number. Mine is 101.

I believe they sold as frame-only, so the original group isn't definitive. They are reported as selling with Dura-Ace 9 from some sources I've read.



xxl said:


> Lugs, vs. "single-pass welds" used in the ti version, suggest steel construction.


Agreed. Unless of course it was a Japanese built Peloton from the same year (also 853)... of course, it would then be labeled as such.


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## Oxtox (Aug 16, 2006)

that's a steel frame.

I have a 1998 Ti version, chain stays are bare, no lugs.


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## Scooper (Mar 4, 2007)

Reynolds 853 steel, built for Schwinn by match cycles (Tim Isaac's company) in Washington state. Tim insisted on lower case "m" for the name of the company.

Serotta built the titanium version, and both versions had the same geometry.










Curt Goodrich was one of the framebuilders at match, and was kind enough to reply to an email I sent him asking about serial numbers:



Curt Goodrich said:


> Hi Stan,
> 
> Schwinn did not assign serial numbers. The company had nothing to do with it at all. Subsequently, Match and Serotta assigned whatever serial number system that worked internally for each company. At Match, we just numbered them consecutively. So the 5th Paramount built was numbered 005. The serial numbers didn't include year built and didn't start over with each new year. We built approximately 750 Paramounts total. If you have any other questions feel free to ask.
> 
> Curt


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## Oxtox (Aug 16, 2006)

speaking of serial numbers...

does anyone with a Ti version have one on the BB...?

mine has nothing on it.


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## datslow (Sep 11, 2014)

Oh great, thank you all for the replies. Much appreciated. The frame is sleeping in a dark room that I do not have access to until Sunday, so I can grab the serial number then.

Scooter & Headloss, I think most all threads I have found on the internet revolve around your posts and the content you provide. I actually poached that dealer catalog scan from one of Scooters other threads. Since the Groupo is undefined with these bikes, that means the sky is the limit right? So naturally the Shimano Dura-Ace 25th Anniversary with the matching numbered metal box? Heh...there's one with a buy it now on evil bay for only $4,500. I'll take three. But in all seriousness, not having a defined groupo definitely opens up some wiggle room. Or does it? 

The tentative goal right now is to have it up and riding for school duties by the end of the month- maybe the middle of October, but of course, being in college and having a lot of extra cash laying around don't really have a symbiotic relationship.

Does anyone know how wide the BB was for one of these frames?


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## headloss (Mar 3, 2013)

datslow said:


> Does anyone know how wide the BB was for one of these frames?


It's a standard 68mm British thread. I put a Campagnolo Ultra-torque alloy crank on mine. If you go with outboard bearing cups, you may need to have the shell faced, mine had more of gap than I was happy with prior to having it faced&chased.

Budgets are a pain, I haven't had mine on the road at all this summer because I need a new wheelset. All of my bike related purchases are on hold until I get the employment thing figured out on something other than temporary basis. Hell, I might join you and just go back to school for a while. 

My advice, don't try to period match it. Better to have a rideable bike than a historically correct bike. Just order a Campy Athena 11 group from Ribble or Velomine and be done with it. Alternatively, maybe a 6600 Shimano group... something a little more modern than the bike itself but still classy looking.

I started out doing a period correct Campy (late) 9speed build but ended up going 10speed instead since the groups were identical. Then I realized that the 2009 FD was better than previous, so I used that instead. Then I got hypnotized by all the positive reviews of Campy's UT crankset (I'm over it, PT is fine) and decided to go with the outboard bearings instead of square taper. I've changed my mind so many times during this build... I started with a bunch of gun-metal anodized parts (Deda handlebars, "titanium grey" Campy brakes, etc.) only to realize that the ever so slight bluish in the anodization clashed with the red paint. If I had a do-over, I'd definitely just go with an Athena11 build which is classic looking, modern functioning.

On the same theme, if you want some classy looking rims that are modern, H Plus Son TB14 rim... or better yet, Pacenti pl23 seeing as Kirk Pacenti was one of the builders at match cycle... that would be a cool tribute to one of the builders.


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## Oxtox (Aug 16, 2006)

headloss said:


> My advice, don't try to period match it. Better to have a rideable bike than a historically correct bike. Just order a Campy Athena 11 group from Ribble or Velomine and be done with it. Alternatively, maybe a 6600 Shimano group... something a little more modern than the bike itself but still classy looking.


exactly my situation.

when I was building up my Paramount, I really wanted a DA 9-speed setup, but after months of looking and not finding anything that wasn't over-priced and/or beaten to death, I finally opted for a new (at that time) Ultegra 6600 group. a perfect compromise of new 10-speed and older-school looks.

of course, 5 days after I ordered the 6600 stuff, I found a NOS DA 9 group (it was $$$)...but, no regrets going with the 6600.

put some 7900 C-24s on it and it all works nicely together.


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## Scooper (Mar 4, 2007)

On that frame since it's got 130mm OLD rear spacing, I'd go modern. That's what I did with this 1994 Waterford Paramount (753 with 130mm spacing). It's got a Campy Chorus 11-s group on it, and the guy I built it up for loves it. The goofy stem is a threaded quill to threadless adapter to accommodate the rider, but except for that it's a pretty sweet build.


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## headloss (Mar 3, 2013)

Scooper said:


> The goofy stem is a threaded quill to threadless adapter to accommodate the rider, but except for that it's a pretty sweet build.


I wonder how that'd look with a VO tall-stack stem...


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## datslow (Sep 11, 2014)

Headloss/Oxtox:
That Campy set is much more expensive than what I was anticipating. It's like $800. Or am I missing something here? That is more splurging than I can afford. My splurge would be Dura Ace 7700, but I was thinking more along the lines of Ultegra 6500 (9spd) or Ultegra 6600 (10spd). Heck, I have an older, full carbon treck with the tri-color shimano groupo and that is pretty functional too, which I am also considering...but that's an 8spd.

Your suggestion with the wheels is pretty good too. I'll have to do some more reading up on those.

Scooper: That bike looks great, but those modern Campi groupos are just out of the budget. My bottom bracket question is more so for chain alignment issues and that is where my uncertainty lies. The overall length of the BB is 115mm, 116.5...120?


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## headloss (Mar 3, 2013)

datslow said:


> Scooper: That bike looks great, but those modern Campi groupos are just out of the budget. My bottom bracket question is more so for chain alignment issues and that is where my uncertainty lies. The overall length of the BB is 115mm, 116.5...120?


You mean spindle length, not BB width. That depends on what crank you use.

Yeah, components are expensive... even more so if you try to match period correct DA level stuff. I think the priority should be to get it built up and on the road, you can always upgrade components down the road but you can never get back the time that you weren't in the saddle.


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## datslow (Sep 11, 2014)

Yes, the spindle length. Here's hoping that Shimano has some consistency in chain ring alignment through the years of square taper to octalink...

I like your train of thought in getting it on the road...but for me, I have a hard time paying for things that are 'temporary'. I cannot justify the costs when I can take that money and put it into parts that are permanently staying. There is definitely some wiggle room if a specific component breaks and you need to get the bike on the road.


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## paredown (Oct 18, 2006)

datslow said:


> ...
> 
> I was given a Schwinn Paramount 60th Anniversary frame and fork this evening from a local bike co-op ...


Score!

Color me envious.


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## Roland44 (Mar 21, 2013)

Scooper said:


> On that frame since it's got 130mm OLD rear spacing, I'd go modern. That's what I did with this 1994 Waterford Paramount (753 with 130mm spacing). It's got a Campy Chorus 11-s group on it, and the guy I built it up for loves it. The goofy stem is a threaded quill to threadless adapter to accommodate the rider, but except for that it's a pretty sweet build.


I love the blue and red combination. Looks great!


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## headloss (Mar 3, 2013)

datslow said:


> Yes, the spindle length. Here's hoping that Shimano has some consistency in chain ring alignment through the years of square taper to octalink...
> 
> I like your train of thought in getting it on the road...but for me, I have a hard time paying for things that are 'temporary'. I cannot justify the costs when I can take that money and put it into parts that are permanently staying. There is definitely some wiggle room if a specific component breaks and you need to get the bike on the road.


You clearly didn't grow up in a family with a lot of hand-me-downs! 

You just pick up another frame from the same co-op down the line and swap over the other parts and then sell a complete bike (or keep a complete bike as a back up). I'm always passing components from one bike down the line when I upgrade something.



paredown said:


> Score!
> 
> Color me envious.


No kidding. I paid $350 for mine.


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## Oxtox (Aug 16, 2006)

datslow said:


> Headloss/Oxtox:
> That Campy set is much more expensive than what I was anticipating.


there's a 6600 group with a DA rear der on ebay BIN for $475...it looks very nice.


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## ghettocop (Apr 19, 2014)

Nice! Congrats man.


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## datslow (Sep 11, 2014)

headloss said:


> You clearly didn't grow up in a family with a lot of hand-me-downs!


You're right. I grew up with sisters and I'm not interested in wearing dresses.

Another option that I am considering is looking locally for a donor bike with a complete group on a frame I care little for, or can turn around and sell. Either way, I'm going to start wrenching on this Schwinn this weekend.

Oxtox: Thanks for the heads up, I've got it bookmarked just in case.


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## datslow (Sep 11, 2014)

Oxtox said:


> there's a 6600 group with a DA rear der on ebay BIN for $475...it looks very nice.


...and I guess it's been decided. I pulled the trigger on a wheel set consisting of Shimano Dura Ace 7700 hubs/skewers with Mavic wheels and Vittoria Corsa Evo-CX tires. So from this point on, this frame will be getting era specific Dura Ace parts. I think the most trouble will lie in finding the correct seat post.


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## datslow (Sep 11, 2014)

Tonight up at the bike co-op I was finally able to make a bit of progress. My 'new' Dura Ace/Mavic wheel set showed up today so that was pretty exciting. While there I found a bag of NOS Shimano cable stops, an "aero" quill stem and plenty of old 26mm bars to chose from. 

Oh, and I was able to get the serial number: 92. I am not exactly sure what that means other than what Scooper posted above in that the numbers are consecutive. Anywho! Progress pics!

View attachment 300359

View attachment 300360

View attachment 300361

View attachment 300362


Woot woot!


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## datslow (Sep 11, 2014)

Update 
The Paramount (aka Red Rocket) is back on the road and I've been riding it to school over the past few days. What a blast! For those curious, I weighed several major components to get a sense of scale and to satisfy my own curiosity of what weighs what and are as follows:
frame + fork + headset: 2.126kg
front wheel + skewer: 925.34g
rear wheel + cassette + skewer: 970.68g
complete bike with pedals + plastic clip in adapters, water bottle cage, handlebar tape...etc.: 8.19kg.

I've been riding my mountain bike over the past few years which is of the same year as this Schwinn, but goodness, even with a full XTR group and thinner, lighter road tires it weighs nearly 18kg! This weight difference from my GT to my Schwinn and the larger diameter wheels makes such a difference! Likewise, when I was weighing the frame/fork I was impressed at how light it feels, but I don't have too much experience aside from my carbon frame/fork trek, but I think it's safe to say that for a steel frame, the aforementioned weight is pretty good. Is it pretty good?

Within the next week or so, I'll be trying my hand at rebuilding the wheels with Pacenti PL23 clinchers as well as installing my DA pedals, quell stem and headset. I have exams all next week so my tinkering time will be touch and go. Anyhow, enjoy the updated pics! Comments, story talk and insight are welcome.


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## Oxtox (Aug 16, 2006)

I have a ti Paramount and I like your bike.

but, here's my suggestions...level the saddle (how does anyone find a nose-down config comfortable...???).

also, try a white saddle and white bar tape to match the white panel on the down tube...mine is done that way and it looks very nice.


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## Scooper (Mar 4, 2007)

That's a hair over 18 pounds. So yes, that's light for a fifteen year old steel bike ready to ride.

It looks great, BTW. Oxtox is right about the saddle, though. Adjust it so it's level then ride it and make minor nose up or down until it's most comfortable.


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## datslow (Sep 11, 2014)

Oxtox/Scooper: I flattened out the saddle last night then rode about 6 miles. I seriously feel like I'm sliding off the back of it, and there's too much pressure on that nerve that everyone *****es about in biking. Maybe from fore to aft my crotch is too round  and a modern flat saddle just isn't my thing. I'll have to increase the angle again, in small increments.

Oxtox: My carbon Trek has white handlebar tape and a white saddle...never again, never ever again. While it looks pretty rad, the grimy-used to-be-white-now-smeary-and-nasty factor increases significantly. At this point if I were to do anything color related with the Schwinn, I'd get red shifter/brake covers off ebay or something. Else I'm pretty content at the moment. I need to shift the focus to restoring my Schwinn tandem for the chick and I.

This morning after I had coffee, I looked at those Pacenti rims all polished and looking nice. They winked at me and asked to be installed. So, I cleared off my desk of school work and went to town on them. Using a spoke calculator I had already come to the conclusion prior to building that the current spokes would be about a mm too long, so decided to simply reuse them. I did change the nipples to new ones since I had those already. I used the same spoke pattern and to expedite the process I segmented the spokes in groups of four and where they terminate in the hub, I wrapped the spokes with boxing tape to keep them in order as I re-laced into the new rims. All be it, this is the first time I've done this before, it was really easy and straight forward.

One thing I didn't care for on the Mavic rims is that who ever built them didn't line up the valve stem hole of the rims to the logos on the hubs. To me, it's strictly an aesthetic thing, but I took care of this on the new rims/wheels. Once I had everything more or less trued and tensioned I rode up to the bicycle co-op and threw them on a trueing stand. Much much better now. Everything is de-stressed and straight +/- .5mm, though I was happy with how close I got them by using the brake pads as a gauge.

The tires (Michelin Pro3 Race), tubes and rim tape are all courtesy of the co-op. They only had three sets of road tires and one set happened to be red side wall. I think it looks great! Anyhow, a few more pics with the new wheels. Enjoy!







For fun, here's my carbon frame/fork Trek from around the same era as my Paramount. This bike has a Shimano 8spd Ultegra TriColor group and those cool old Mavic clinchers. This bike originally had one of the most putrid color schemes I've ever seen, so I matched the frame and fork off of the TriColor sticker using a four-stage process. You either love it or you hate it.


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## Oxtox (Aug 16, 2006)

datslow said:


> Oxtox: My carbon Trek has white handlebar tape and a white saddle...never again, never ever again.


have you tried the Fizik Microtex white tape?...mine is over a year old and still looks brand new. cleans up easily with a damp rag and a little soap.

I know this stuff is all just personal preferences, but the red bar tape is just too way too much red for my tastes.


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## Aladin (Oct 5, 2014)

datslow said:


> I was given a Schwinn Paramount 60th Anniversary frame and fork this evening from a local bike co-op,


Took me a few minutes to pick myself up off the floor reading that.... WHERE do you live? Can I join/lurk at this CO-OP???:blush2:

Great bike.. CONGRATS1


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## Scooper (Mar 4, 2007)

datslow said:


> Oxtox/Scooper: I flattened out the saddle last night then rode about 6 miles. I seriously feel like I'm sliding off the back of it, and there's too much pressure on that nerve that everyone *****es about in biking. Maybe from fore to aft my crotch is too round  and a modern flat saddle just isn't my thing. I'll have to increase the angle again, in small increments.


If your perineum is feeling like there's too much pressure on it, you might want to try a saddle with good support for your sit bones, but with a large central cutout. I've switched to Selle SMP saddles because of tenderness/numbness in my perineum. I've always ridden Brooks B-17 and Pro models, but after I turned 65 (I'm 72 now) the Brooks models - which don't have a central cutout - were cutting off circulation in my perineum causing numbness.


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## Aladin (Oct 5, 2014)

Scooper said:


> If your perineum is feeling like there's too much pressure on it, you might want to try a saddle with good support for your sit bones, but with a large central cutout. I've switched to Selle SMP saddles because of tenderness/numbness in my perineum. I've always ridden Brooks B-17 and Pro models, but after I turned 65 (I'm 72 now) the Brooks models - which don't have a central cutout - were cutting off circulation in my perineum causing numbness.


I've managed to relieve that issue by making the size of my shadow smaller... for now.

Scooper can you point me to or recommend a light weight steel work either from 853 or 953 Reynolds? I'm thinking/hoping those would be comparable in weight to the around 500 gram Road D aluminum's-- which I've had no luck finding new. (should mention.. I use threaded one inch which limits choices)

Currently run a New Dimension steel at around 780 grams with my 60cm Peloton-- no complaint whatsoever. Just recreationally messing with making the bike lighter. 

I do not ride carbon.. period.


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## Scooper (Mar 4, 2007)

Aladin said:


> Scooper can you point me to or recommend a light weight steel *work* either from 853 or 953 Reynolds?


If you mean fork, Reynolds does offer 953 fork blades now but I know of no one who makes 953 production forks. The only way to get one is to have one of the framebuilders with lots of experience building with 953 and other stainless tubesets build a custom fork for you, and it won't be cheap. Good choices for a builder would be Dave Anderson or Dave Wages.

The 953 fork blades have 0.7mm wall thickness (compared to typical chromoly blades with 1.2/0.8mm walls) so I'm not sure you'll get to 500g even after spending lots of money. 

Your best bet would be to call Dave or Dave and ask them about cost and weights of a custom 953 threaded fork.


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## Scooper (Mar 4, 2007)

Here are the 953 fork blade part numbers. ES4800 is a straight blade, and ES4810 is pre-raked.










Just for grins, I weighed a pair of 4130 chromoly blades the same length (380mm) with 1.0mm walls having the same 27.5mm x 20mm oval cross-section at the crown and tip diameter as the 953 blades. The chromoly blades weigh 300g for the pair. Since 4130 and 953 steel alloys have virtually the same density (approx. 7.9 g/cu cm), a pair of 953 blades would weigh 7/10 the weight of the chromoly blades, or 210g.

I also weighed a 240mm long 25.4mm diameter chromoly threaded steerer (2.3/1.5 butted for 22.2mm quill stems) at 240g, a steel semi-sloping crown (150g) and a pair of front Campy 1010 dropouts (50g).

So, without the weight of brazing filler the total weight of the parts for a steel fork with 953 blades and a 240mm threaded steerer would be about 650g.


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## Camilo (Jun 23, 2007)

Oxtox said:


> have you tried the Fizik Microtex white tape?...mine is over a year old and still looks brand new. cleans up easily with a damp rag and a little soap.
> 
> I know this stuff is all just personal preferences, but the red bar tape is just too way too much red for my tastes.


I have the Microtex on one bike and Deda Mistral on another - both are excellent tapes, very similar. I think the Mistral feels a little grippier, but both are pretty thin and have a classic look to them. Neither get dirty inordinately fast, and are easy to clean up.


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## Aladin (Oct 5, 2014)

Scooper said:


> Here are the 953 fork blade part numbers. ES4800 is a straight blade, and ES4810 is pre-raked.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


THANK YOU Scooper for taking the time to figure that fork weight.. much appreciated. 

Cost vs weight saved isn't practical for me... yet... sometimes one has to just go for what ONE wants...:7:.


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## Aladin (Oct 5, 2014)

I sure like this bike: Schwinn Paramount 60th Anniversary Titanium Frame Time Club Carbon Fork Da Hset | eBay

NOT sure I'm against the roooles noting this listing.. have no connection. Just a cool frame IMO... and thankfully a little small for me...:17:. And the carbon fork... non starter for me.


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## Enoch562 (May 13, 2010)

Aladin said:


> I sure like this bike: Schwinn Paramount 60th Anniversary Titanium Frame Time Club Carbon Fork Da Hset | eBay
> 
> NOT sure I'm against the roooles noting this listing.. have no connection. Just a cool frame IMO... and thankfully a little small for me...:17:. And the carbon fork... non starter for me.



I saw that too. THose are some sweet looking frames.


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## datslow (Sep 11, 2014)

Scooper, thanks for the seat recommendations. Much appreciated. You're a living bike wikipedia; I am convinced of this!

Camilo: Thanks for the tip on handlebar tape, I'll check it out.

Aladin: That frame is soooooooo cool! Get it!

On a side note, I've got this itch and I cannot get rid of it at the moment. I'm looking at my old full suspension GT bike, and shaking my head in disgust at its weight. I think I'll start hunting around for a 1997-1999 Schwinn Homegrown Factory and throw all my XTR stuff on it!


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## Aladin (Oct 5, 2014)

datslow said:


> Aladin: That frame is soooooooo cool! Get it!
> !


LOL... are you a loan company...  Lots of coins.. I am GLAD it's a tad smallish. Really though it's NOT... one inch shorter on top tube than my Peloton.. that issue easily resolved with a stem--IF need be.

Love the Peloton.. I am a user and finally got down to TWO bikes. Happy now with my rides. 

Now..if it was a 60 or 62.. and I could ride one some BEFORE a buy... the purse strings might go loooooooooose. :thumbsup:

Another rambling: I hesitated back when to laud the Peloton too much... might inadvertently create demand.. driving auctions/pricing higher. Their so cheeeeeeeeeeeep now.. for what one gets.


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