# Which spoke pattern for 24h front, 28 hole rear?



## hobiedog (Jun 18, 2005)

This'll be the first road wheelset I've built. I'm asking the question because of the low spoke count. I've always built mtb wheels with 3x with 32 holes, but for this low spoke count, what is recommended. The hubs are Ritchey WCS and rims will most likely be Sun Venus. I'm not exactly a weight weenie and not so interested in radial lacing. So would 2x be recommended? Is 3x even possible with 24 or 28 hole?

thanks,

JT


----------



## Juanmoretime (Nov 24, 2001)

*Simular build.*



hobiedog said:



> This'll be the first road wheelset I've built. I'm asking the question because of the low spoke count. I've always built mtb wheels with 3x with 32 holes, but for this low spoke count, what is recommended. The hubs are Ritchey WCS and rims will most likely be Sun Venus. I'm not exactly a weight weenie and not so interested in radial lacing. So would 2x be recommended? Is 3x even possible with 24 or 28 hole?
> 
> thanks,
> 
> JT


I'm build the same number of spokes right now on a wheelset. First I'm 6' 2" and 155 lbs. I'm using American Classic hubs 24 front, 28 rear. I'm going radial on the front and three across on the drive side and two across on the non drive side. The rims I'm using are IRD Cadence and Whellsmith XL spokes with alloy nipples.


----------



## TurboTurtle (Feb 4, 2004)

"I'm not exactly a weight weenie..." Then why on earth are you building 24/28 spoke wheels? - TF


----------



## hobiedog (Jun 18, 2005)

*Ah...... because I got the hubset at a good price..*

Yep, I know, that's perhaps not the best way to go about it. Nonetheless, its done and I'm going to build them. I also own a set of 24/28h Easton Circuits. Bought them because they were dirt cheap ( $177 ) and relatively high zoot ( for me ) and have been happy with them. Hmm, maybe I am a weight weenie, but I also have a set of 32h Ultegra/CSP23s ( no, not 22s or 33s ) and thoroughly enjoyed their trouble-free performance and never thought about the extra ~200g. 

OK, I AM a weight weenie. What pattern should I use? Maybe I answered my own question after thinking about the Eastons; they're laced radial front, 2x/radial rear.


----------



## TurboTurtle (Feb 4, 2004)

hobiedog said:


> Yep, I know, that's perhaps not the best way to go about it. Nonetheless, its done and I'm going to build them. I also own a set of 24/28h Easton Circuits. Bought them because they were dirt cheap ( $177 ) and relatively high zoot ( for me ) and have been happy with them. Hmm, maybe I am a weight weenie, but I also have a set of 32h Ultegra/CSP23s ( no, not 22s or 33s ) and thoroughly enjoyed their trouble-free performance and never thought about the extra ~200g.
> 
> OK, I AM a weight weenie. What pattern should I use? Maybe I answered my own question after thinking about the Eastons; they're laced radial front, 2x/radial rear.


If I built every hubset I got at a good price, I might not have 4 boxes of hubs sitting in the basement.  TF


----------



## hobiedog (Jun 18, 2005)

*I hear ya Turbo, you should see my collection.....*

BTW, the hubs were purchased on Ebay 6 months ago. I just found that 'round tuit'.

JT


----------



## Nessism (Feb 6, 2004)

Call me strange but I don't like radial lacing. 2x or 3x handles torsional loads better, is easier on the hub flanges, is only a few grams heavier, and LOOKS better to my eye.


----------



## FORT-Cyclist (Jan 19, 2003)

2x front and rear.
3x ist possible but requires very long spokes.


----------



## SDizzle (May 1, 2004)

hobiedog said:


> This'll be the first road wheelset I've built. I'm asking the question because of the low spoke count. I've always built mtb wheels with 3x with 32 holes, but for this low spoke count, what is recommended. The hubs are Ritchey WCS and rims will most likely be Sun Venus. I'm not exactly a weight weenie and not so interested in radial lacing. So would 2x be recommended? Is 3x even possible with 24 or 28 hole?
> 
> thanks,
> 
> JT


I built up the exact same front hub (for my fixie commuter) radially with straight 14g spokes. It's the flexiest wheel I've ever ridden, and tension is through the roof. (I weigh 150 in commuter's clothes - jeans, sweater, scarf, Puma's, etc.) I've seen some low-spoke count 2x wheels that looked great. (If looks are a factor, which they shouldn't be...) I don't think you can/should go 3x for the front. 2x should be your lower limit, if you're not going radial. The rear can be anything you want - I'd recommend 3x DS and 2x ND for a stiffer build, or some thick drive side 2x spokes and radial ND. Whichever way you go, it's a remarkably good hub, and you'll be happy enough. They will never be as stiff as a well built 32h 3x wheel, or probably even your Eastons.

Care to divulge your source for the hubs? I got mine on eBay from a guy that had a seemingly endless stock, but now he's out. I'd like to get a new set. Maybe you'd scrap this project and part with yours? Thanks - S.


----------



## rensho (Aug 5, 2003)

Radial front.

For the rear, check the hub diameter relative to a AC or WTB hub, you may need to go 2x, instead of 3x. I just built some 3x, 24h AC hubs. With 3x, the spokes actually hit the spoke end next to them because the come across the flange so much. This causes the spoke to be pushed up by the adjacent spoke end.
I should have picked up on this when i ordered the spokes and Mike at oddnendos immediately assumed i was doing 2x. Like an idiot, i said, no, i'm doing 3x. He didn't share any other info, nor insist any further, so off i went with spokes for 3x. 

Unlike others here, i really like radial spoking.

Good luck.


----------



## alienator (Jun 11, 2004)

rensho said:


> Unlike others here, i really like radial spoking.


Why? What's so great about radial spokes?


----------



## SDizzle (May 1, 2004)

alienator said:


> Why? What's so great about radial spokes?


They're SO easy to wipe down with Armor All.


----------



## alienator (Jun 11, 2004)

SDizzle said:


> They're SO easy to wipe down with Armor All.


 Ohhhhh, I get it. I hate it when people pick durability and useability over Armor Allability.

FWIW, van Owen got what was coming to 'im. Bastard. Of all the greats of 'merican music that people go on about, they never go on enough about two of the greatest: Warren Zevon and Jim Carroll. Man they both could/can turn a word. RIP, Mr. Zevon.


----------



## weiwentg (Feb 3, 2004)

hobiedog said:


> This'll be the first road wheelset I've built. I'm asking the question because of the low spoke count. I've always built mtb wheels with 3x with 32 holes, but for this low spoke count, what is recommended. The hubs are Ritchey WCS and rims will most likely be Sun Venus. I'm not exactly a weight weenie and not so interested in radial lacing. So would 2x be recommended? Is 3x even possible with 24 or 28 hole?
> 
> thanks,
> 
> JT


a commonly-used rule of thumb is that you divide the number of holes in the hub by 9, to get the maximum effective cross number. for example, 28 / 9 is 3 and a bit, which means that 3x is the maximum effective number of crosses; the spokes are leaving the hub at close to 90 degrees. so, I'd certainly suggest you use 3x on the rear, at least for the drive side. you can build the front 2x if you want, but I think any front wheel with 24 spokes or less should be radial only for the sake of appearances. it's a personal quirk.

however, Mike Garcia built me one 24 spoke rear, with high-flange american classic hubs, using 3x both sides. because the flanges were large, the spokes didn't run into each other.


----------



## MShaw (Jun 7, 2003)

TurboTurtle said:


> If I built every hubset I got at a good price, I might not have 4 boxes of hubs sitting in the basement.  TF


Yer 3 up on me in the 'hubsets needing to be built into wheels' category.

I've got a pair of Mavic FH hubs waiting to be laced into a pair of Campy Omega XL clinchers... I just gave my little brother my MA40s, so it may be about time.

To answer the question: 1x in the front and 2x both sides in the back. Alternatively, go 2x in the front.

M


----------



## SDizzle (May 1, 2004)

alienator said:


> Warren Zevon and Jim Carroll.


...And Townes van Zandt - the root of most modern American death country, and all of the new altrockemocrap (Bright Eyes, Songs: Ohia, The National, Okkervil River, etc.).

Thread: hijacked,
Mr. Bad Example


----------



## TurboTurtle (Feb 4, 2004)

MShaw said:


> Yer 3 up on me in the 'hubsets needing to be built into wheels' category.
> 
> I've got a pair of Mavic FH hubs waiting to be laced into a pair of Campy Omega XL clinchers... I just gave my little brother my MA40s, so it may be about time.
> 
> ...


I mean 4 big boxes filled with hubs. 1 box of pre-cassette hubs, 1 box of road hubs, one box of MTB hubs and 1 box of "different" hubs. Every time I go into the "different" box I wonder at the engineer that though up the helical cassette mounting and wonder what the he!! I'm goping to do with it. - TF


----------

