# Bumpy ride & did I put my wheel on right?



## Xcelerate (Mar 23, 2011)

Just upgraded to a CAAD10-4 from a $70 bike. Huge improvement. But I have 2 safety related questions.

My first question is -- to transport the bike home, I took the front tire off and attached the fork to one of those bike fork clamps for truck beds. However, when it came time to put the wheel back on, I wasn't sure how far in I was supposed to screw the cap before pulling the lever. I first screwed it in all the way, but I couldn't pull the lever in because it was so tight. So then I screwed it in most of the way, and with a decent amount of force was able to close the lever. Is this too tight or too loose?

And my second question is -- I feel the road A LOT when I'm riding. At first I thought something was wrong with the wheels, but then I looked at the road and I realized the bumps I was feeling were very small bumps on the road, and these roads are well taken care of. I'm coming from a mountain bike (that I only road on the street), so maybe that's the reason I'm feeling every little bump, but it's sort of scary on the downhills. Is this just road bike wheels in general, or is it the Shimano RS10's?

Thanks a lot!


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## mimason (Oct 7, 2006)

If the skewers are on so tight you need a lot of force to open/close then you need to back it off bit until they are a firm,snug tighness. Error of the side of too tight until you get a comfort level. Hit the top of the tire once mounted to test.

As far as road feel you are coming from a mountain bike to road so there is a big difference. Also you have an aluminum frame which does transmit more road vibrations than carbon or titanium but I suspect that the bigger issue is that you may be running too high air pressure.

How much do you weigh and how much air are you using?


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## Xcelerate (Mar 23, 2011)

Ok, thanks for the information about the skewers. I just wanted to mainly make sure they weren't on so tight they cracked something, but not on too loose that the wheel came off while riding.

I weigh 140 lbs, and the air pressure is at the LBS recommended 120 psi. The guy at the shop has ridden this particular bike and didn't make any comments about the bumpiness so I assume it's just that I'm not used to a road bike feel yet.


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## tihsepa (Nov 27, 2008)

Xcelerate said:


> Ok, thanks for the information about the skewers. I just wanted to mainly make sure they weren't on so tight they cracked something, but not on too loose that the wheel came off while riding.
> 
> I weigh 140 lbs, and the air pressure is at the LBS recommended 120 psi. The guy at the shop has ridden this particular bike and didn't make any comments about the bumpiness so I assume it's just that I'm not used to a road bike feel yet.


Assuming you are running a 23 tire I would run 100 in the rear and 95 up front.


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## TomH (Oct 6, 2008)

The caad series is known for being particularly stiff.. but 120psi at your weight is ridiculous. ~90's are more appropriate.


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## Kuma601 (Jan 22, 2004)

120 psi is high for your weight. Dropping to ~95 front and 100 in the rear would be approximate.


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## avam (Oct 19, 2010)

You could safely run 75f/90r. Experiment. Your LBS dude must not ride much.


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## brucew (Jun 3, 2006)

PSI Rx explains the relationship between rider weight, tire size and inflation pressure on one side, and ride, handling and rolling resistance on the other side.

I weigh 170 or so. On my three roadies with 25mm tires, I run 70F/80R. On my commuter with 28mm, I run 60F/70R.


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## CHL (Jun 24, 2005)

Xcelerate:

What type of tires are you running? I used to ride @ 120PSI and unless you've ridden a stiff frame for a long time, it might be too much for you. At 140lbs, you might want to step down to 110PSI in the rear and 100PSI in the front. 

Also, do experiment with different tires. There is an appreciable difference between brands and models. I ride a CAAD9 with Campagnolo Eurus wheels and I find the ride extremely comfortable. Usually I'm riding at 100psi all the way around or with the rear at 110psi. The last two generations of CAADs have extremely smooth and comfortable ride qualities.

CHL


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## Xcelerate (Mar 23, 2011)

I'm running 23mm Schwalbe Luganos -- stock tires. I rode again today, and I am getting used to how they feel, but I may lower the pressure if there is discomfort at some point. The LBS is very highly regarded, both by online reviews, and local reviews, and these guys know what they're doing, so I assume there is a reason he recommended 120 psi, at least to start out with. The bumpiness doesn't cause any discomfort or annoyance -- it's just different. My main issue was whether I put the wheel on or not right.


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## Sloburu (Mar 23, 2011)

Congrats on getting a great bike. I would start at 100psi front and rear and go down playing with the psi. Tighten the skewers firm but don't go crazy with it.


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## MadRoc92 (Mar 24, 2004)

I have the same bike w/the same tires. I could swear the sidewall max is 110 psi. That doesn't mean you can't run 120, but you really don't need to. I run about 100 psi for now. I was about 190 when I bought the bike in late March and I'm down to 177 now. When I lighten/harden up some more I'll probably run a little less pressure. At your size 95 psi would be about right. That would do a lot for your ride quality.


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## krisdrum (Oct 29, 2007)

Xcelerate said:


> I'm running 23mm Schwalbe Luganos -- stock tires. I rode again today, and I am getting used to how they feel, but I may lower the pressure if there is discomfort at some point. The LBS is very highly regarded, both by online reviews, and local reviews, and these guys know what they're doing, so I assume there is a reason he recommended 120 psi, at least to start out with. The bumpiness doesn't cause any discomfort or annoyance -- it's just different. My main issue was whether I put the wheel on or not right.


They may be highly regarded, but recommending 120psi for a 140lb rider is just wrong. See the link Bruce posted. Not only is the ride going to be harsher, but you won't be able to appropriately flex the tire, compromising traction in turns and on wet pavement. I have 30 lbs on you and have long since dropped my psi into the low 100s and am faster, more comfortable and more confident because of it.


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## TomH (Oct 6, 2008)

Xcelerate said:


> I assume there is a reason he recommended 120 psi


He probably looked at the sidewall "max pressure" and suggested that. 

You'll be faster with less pressure! Theres been sufficient tests to prove this by now.


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## 2Slo4U (Feb 12, 2005)

I'm 175 and run 90 psi in both tires. I think I've had one flat in the last 2 years (of course, I just jinxed myself.....)


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## V3T (May 19, 2011)

I'm revisiting this thread with some questions. 

I read the article, did my calculations, and determined I should be running my tires at 80psi/125psi. My tires are 700x21 clincher-tubulars rated for 115-220psi.

I looked around the internet, and my first fears have been slightly diminshed. You can run the tires I have at a higher psi, because the tube does not sit in the rim like a tube for a clincher tire. If the rim was rated for 165psi and you inflated a tube for a clincher to 180psi, it could damage the rim. I have not been running my clincher-tubular tires at that high a psi, but I guess I could since the tube does not sit in the rim. I have found the ride at a higher psi to feel fast, but you also feel the road and bumps, which I don't mind. 

I am still trying to figure out how, like the article states, a tubular tire will actually become slower if it is inflated too much.


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## krisdrum (Oct 29, 2007)

If you overinflate, the tire basically bounces over every "obstacle" in your path. That bouncing is transferred to you in vibration, which ultimately fatigues you faster. As far as speed is concerned, the same concept applies. All the energy going into bouncing you over the "obstacles" is not going towards forward movement and is therefore wasted. Put concept 1 and 2 together and you are ultimately faster and more comfortable for a longer period of time because you are conserving your muscular energy and the energy you are putting into moving the bike forward.


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## V3T (May 19, 2011)

Okay, I understand what you are saying, but how much of this transfers to the road? For instance: I could see the bouncing caused by over-inflation being physically draining while riding single track, but on the road I tend to think of bouncing as when I go over random tree roots that make the road uneven. I do agree that that an over-inflated tire would not roll as smoothly over a rough road as one that is less-inflated, but I am not sure that I would really become that less efficient on the road unless I was riding over cobbles, a dirt road, or some surface of that nature. I would say 98% of the roads I ride where I live tend to have smooth surfaces, with a few of those roads in need of being resurfaced because they are just worn down but not necessarily bumpy.


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## looigi (Nov 24, 2010)

90R - 80F at your weight. You can go a bit lower or a bit higher, but that's what I recommend.


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## krisdrum (Oct 29, 2007)

V3T said:


> Okay, I understand what you are saying, but how much of this transfers to the road? For instance: I could see the bouncing caused by over-inflation being physically draining while riding single track, but on the road I tend to think of bouncing as when I go over random tree roots that make the road uneven. I do agree that that an over-inflated tire would not roll as smoothly over a rough road as one that is less-inflated, but I am not sure that I would really become that less efficient on the road unless I was riding over cobbles, a dirt road, or some surface of that nature. I would say 98% of the roads I ride where I live tend to have smooth surfaces, with a few of those roads in need of being resurfaced because they are just worn down but not necessarily bumpy.


Same concept, just on a much smaller scale. Think of the "bounces" as "micro-bounces" as the tire comes in contact with whatever debris is on the road and needs to roll over it. If there is too much air in the tire, the tire will lift off the ground to go over whatever the object is, on a very small level. Now take that and multiply it by several thousand "bounces" per ride and the energy lost adds up. If you get the air pressure right, the tire will actually deform over the object (like the blob) and not lose any of the forward energy to lift the tire off the ground. Hence, you will be faster. There is pretty extensive research out there on it, so don't take my word for it.


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## V3T (May 19, 2011)

Okay, I sort of was thinking that you would refer to micro-bounces. I am going to have to do more research.

If you are recommending 80psi/90psi, does this mean the person whose psi should be 80psi/90psi would need to get rid of my tires since they are rated for 115psi-220psi. I am sort of assuming that 115psi is the minimum recommended psi for the tires. Are these for clydesdales or something? Even the Vittoria Open Pave Evo CG (320 TPI) have a minimum pressure of 100psi. According to your recommendation (80psi/90psi), a person needing that pressure couldn't use those tires either.


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## krisdrum (Oct 29, 2007)

V3T said:


> Okay, I sort of was thinking that you would refer to micro-bounces. I am going to have to do more research.
> 
> If you are recommending 80psi/90psi, does this mean the person whose psi should be 80psi/90psi would need to get rid of my tires since they are rated for 115psi-220psi. I am sort of assuming that 115psi is the minimum recommended psi for the tires. Are these for clydesdales or something? Even the Vittoria Open Pave Evo CG (320 TPI) have a minimum pressure of 100psi. According to your recommendation (80psi/90psi), a person needing that pressure couldn't use those tires either.


I've made no recommendation as to psi, as I don't know your weight. I'm not familiar enough with those Tufos to say whether it would be an issue running them at pressures below what is recommended. It has never been entirely clear to me how they seat in a clincher rim. But to give you an idea, I am 170 lbs and typically run my tires around 90f/100r without any issues with pinch flats and I'm sure I could drop that pressure further.

As for manufacturer recommended min/max psi, they are guidelines and may not fall within your needs. As a Cyclocross racer, I (and most of my fellow racers) routine run tires under the recommended minimum without any ill-effect.


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## V3T (May 19, 2011)

krisdrum said:


> I've made no recommendation as to psi, as I don't know your weight. I'm not familiar enough with those Tufos to say whether it would be an issue running them at pressures below what is recommended. It has never been entirely clear to me how they seat in a clincher rim. But to give you an idea, I am 170 lbs and typically run my tires around 90f/100r without any issues with pinch flats and I'm sure I could drop that pressure further.
> 
> As for manufacturer recommended min/max psi, they are guidelines and may not fall within your needs. As a Cyclocross racer, I (and most of my fellow racers) routine run tires under the recommended minimum without any ill-effect.


Sorry, the latter part of my post was directed towards Looigi. I read on another thread on RBR that someone was running their tires at too low a psi, and they were going through tires fairly quickly. Does that happen to you? Someone else suggested they run a little more psi. I think I will be able to get away with 115psi/120psi on the road, particularly because running a little more psi wouldn't be the same as putting 165psi/170psi like i've been doing, since I weigh 148lbs and my bike is only 15lbs.


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## krisdrum (Oct 29, 2007)

V3T said:


> Sorry, the latter part of my post was directed towards Looigi. I read on another thread on RBR that someone was running their tires at too low a psi, and they were going through tires fairly quickly. Does that happen to you? Someone else suggested they run a little more psi. I think I will be able to get away with 115psi/120psi on the road, particularly because running a little more psi wouldn't be the same as putting 165psi/170psi like i've been doing, since I weigh 148lbs and my bike is only 15lbs.


I can't even imagine 165 or 170 in my tires. Heck, 120 is awfully "buzzy" compared to my normal pressures now. And that is on a not particularly stiff Ti frame. I think that is extreme at your weight, but go for it.


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## Hank Stamper (Sep 9, 2009)

V3T said:


> Sorry, the latter part of my post was directed towards Looigi. I read on another thread on RBR that *someone was running their tires at too low a psi, and they were going through tires fairly quickly*. Does that happen to you? Someone else suggested they run a little more psi. I think I will be able to get away with 115psi/120psi on the road, particularly because running a little more psi wouldn't be the same as putting 165psi/170psi like i've been doing, since I weigh 148lbs and my bike is only 15lbs.


Don't believe everything you read on the internet. I'm that person who was told my pressure was too low (105 psi and I'm about 155) and that was simply a wild guess, and an incorrect one, by someone. I wear out corsas quickly because they are a thin race tire and I put a decent amount of power transter into them. Period. The real question is how to heck is someone getting 2200 miles out of them.

You're way over thinking this and not filtering what you hear on the internets appropriately as evidence by your faulty conclusions above. Log off the internet for while and do some trial and error on your bike if you want a better idea of what feel right for tire pressure.


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## V3T (May 19, 2011)

krisdrum said:


> I can't even imagine 165 or 170 in my tires. Heck, 120 is awfully "buzzy" compared to my normal pressures now. And that is on a not particularly stiff Ti frame. I think that is extreme at your weight, but go for it.


No, I agree that I have been over-inflating for sure. On my ride tomorrow I am going to try a much lower pressure in each tire, probably like 100psi/110psi or so. Thanks for your help. 

Here is a supporting article that talks about tire pressue a little.

http://velonews.competitor.com/2010...addy-light-bikes-and-amateur-equipment_149851


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## V3T (May 19, 2011)

I agree that I am over-thinking this some, but I have definitely also been over-inflating. I am going to do some trial and error pressures starting tomorrow AM. Thanks for the reply.


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## TomH (Oct 6, 2008)

I weight 200lbs and run 100psi in my tires. Ive ran 80 on occasions that ive forgotten to pump them up before a ride. Havent pinched yet. I mostly ride 25's, but Ive used similar pressures on 23's.


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## Kerry Irons (Feb 25, 2002)

*Tire wear*



V3T said:


> I read on another thread on RBR that someone was running their tires at too low a psi, and they were going through tires fairly quickly. Does that happen to you? Someone else suggested they run a little more psi. I think I will be able to get away with 115psi/120psi on the road, particularly because running a little more psi wouldn't be the same as putting 165psi/170psi like i've been doing, since I weigh 148lbs and my bike is only 15lbs.


First, the only way somebody would be "going through tires fairly quickly" due to low pressure would be if they were getting pinch flats. They might be getting frequent flats, but tires wear more slowly at lower pressure because there is more rubber on the road and therefore the scrubbing forces are better distributed. Note: only rear tires really wear out.

At your weight with 23 mm tires you could EASILY run 90/100 and probably have no issues at 80/90. I weigh 30 lb. more and run 90/100 with no issues.


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## V3T (May 19, 2011)

Kerry Irons said:


> First, the only way somebody would be "going through tires fairly quickly" due to low pressure would be if they were getting pinch flats. They might be getting frequent flats, but tires wear more slowly at lower pressure because there is more rubber on the road and therefore the scrubbing forces are better distributed. Note: only rear tires really wear out.
> 
> At your weight with 23 mm tires you could EASILY run 90/100 and probably have no issues at 80/90. I weigh 30 lb. more and run 90/100 with no issues.


Alright, I am definitely convinced that too high a tire pressure was a problem. First, my ride was 100% smoother than its ever been. My turn-around point time was faster than I have ever seen it, and I have been riding the same route 4-5 times a week for over a year now. I know there could be other factors at play, but I did drop my tire psi from 165psi/175psi to 90psi/110psi. Thats a heck of a lot pressure difference! The current tires I am running are 700x21, but I am going to switch back to a 700x23 for a few reasons. I am also going to play around with pressure a little more. Thank you everyone for your eye-opening help!


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## CHL (Jun 24, 2005)

V3T said:


> Alright, I am definitely convinced that too high a tire pressure was a problem. First, my ride was 100% smoother than its ever been. My turn-around point time was faster than I have ever seen it, and I have been riding the same route 4-5 times a week for over a year now. I know there could be other factors at play, but I did drop my tire psi from 165psi/175psi to 90psi/110psi. Thats a heck of a lot pressure difference! The current tires I am running are 700x21, but I am going to switch back to a 700x23 for a few reasons. I am also going to play around with pressure a little more. Thank you everyone for your eye-opening help!


Are you running Tubulars? I don't know of any clinchers that have a maximum rated pressure higher than 145psi (Vredestein Fortezza Tri-Comp). I've ridden these tires at maximum pressure and the ride was unbearable, even on smooth surfaces. With my Hed Ardennes I run 90/100 fore/aft. With my Campagnolo Eurus, I run 110/90 or even 100psi across. How did you cope with riding at 165/175psi?

C.


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## V3T (May 19, 2011)

CHL said:


> Are you running Tubulars? I don't know of any clinchers that have a maximum rated pressure higher than 145psi (Vredestein Fortezza Tri-Comp). I've ridden these tires at maximum pressure and the ride was unbearable, even on smooth surfaces. With my Hed Ardennes I run 90/100 fore/aft. With my Campagnolo Eurus, I run 110/90 or even 100psi across. How did you cope with riding at 165/175psi?
> 
> C.


I’ve been riding Tubular-clinchers, which received low rolling-resistance ratings on one of the studies done on tires. I have also ridden the Vredestein, and I had them pumped up more than 145psi, I think it was around 160psi. The ride is unbearable, but I thought it was normal. It’s funny, because when I test rode my bike before I bought it, I really saw how much carbon fiber dissipates road buzz. But after I bought the bike and swapped over my wheel-set, I couldn't get the ride the same until today. I just sort of dealt with it and didn't really care much. But now I really see how smooth a ride I've been missing.


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