# Tour Stage 9 - 208k



## weltyed (Feb 6, 2004)

Please forgive me, but I have to "coach" a teeball game, make dinner for the inlaws and then I will be getting sloshed at a Milwaukee Brewers game, so I might not get to see Stage 8. And that means I have to start Stage 9 predictions without knowing. Like that would change the fact my redictions have been about as spot-on as my ability to verify rider nationality. Ain't we all humans, man?

So, Horner is out. That is sad, but not as sad as watching video of him STILL RIDING HIS BIKE and wondering if there is a bike race going on. I honestly think we may have seen his last race, which is too bad. He was hoping to race another 5 years if his body let him. Well, his body might be able to, but his brain...Reminds me of that promising American (I think) Credit Agricol rider who sustained a coma-inducing crash.

So Stage 9 goes up and down, down and up. Cat3, Cat2, Cat2, Cat3, Cat3, Cat2, Sprint, Cat4. Pretty sure Thor aint gonna wear yellow after today. Evan is gonna get attacked by the Contador and the Schleck. I just wonder if the Contador Schleckfest will happen again. 

I say Garzelli. For fun.


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## robdamanii (Feb 13, 2006)

This has breakaway written all over it, and a chance for someone who really is gunning for the KOM jersey to go clear.

Hoogerland will be in the break for the KOM points, maybe the win.


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## nims (Jul 7, 2009)

I find that little sprint point there pretty funny, it's like a slap in the face after 6 climbs for the sprinters ;p 

Thor keeps yellow again. Euskaltel rider wins the stage from the breakaway.


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## OldEndicottHiway (Jul 16, 2007)

robdamanii said:


> This has breakaway written all over it, and a chance for someone who really is gunning for the KOM jersey to go clear.
> 
> Hoogerland will be in the break for the KOM points, maybe the win.




Van Garderen said that the team has pretty much set him loose in the non sprinter stages. He says there's no pressure on him to "do" anything, other than gain experience.

But now that he's in the dots...I wonder how much pressure he'll put on himself to retain the jersey tomorrow..."It's _mine_! You can't have it!" 

P.S. to Welty, both bwain scans on Horner are clear. This is good news. He'll need to take it easy for a few days and be watched. He may have some minor lasting effects (such as intermittent, mild short term memory loss) that _should_ clear with time.



Oh yes and I predict Thor for tomorrow.


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## spookyload (Jan 30, 2004)

Saul Rasin was the Credit Agricole rider you are talking about I think. As for tomorrow...I would love to see TJ hold the dots. Gilbert will turn himself inside out to get those sprinters points at the intermediate. Cadel, Contador will watch each other and the Frank and Andy Chase me game.


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## ocean-ro (Nov 23, 2009)

Cadel wins the sprint of GC contenders group.
Stage win - somebody in a breakaway


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## burgrat (Nov 18, 2005)

Thomas Voeckler will go for this one.


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## krott5333 (Oct 2, 2009)

my money's on Gilbert


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## Sojourneyman (Jun 22, 2007)

I'm going to pick him on stages until he makes good: Jerome Coppel


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## Timmay (May 16, 2011)

I have been watching the Tour this year and am trying to figure out how they classify the climbs. I understand that a category 1 climb is higher than a category 2 climb. However, I don't understand what makes each climb that grade. Is there a formula that they use or is it based on something else?


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## nims (Jul 7, 2009)

Timmay said:


> I have been watching the Tour this year and am trying to figure out how they classify the climbs. I understand that a category 1 climb is higher than a category 2 climb. However, I don't understand what makes each climb that grade. Is there a formula that they use or is it based on something else?


I was under the impression that steeper hills had higher categories. Like a 10% grade would have higher cat then a 5% grade. I think both length and grade are counted. Seems like one of the Cat 2 is shorter than the Cat 3 but with steeper gradient.


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## allison (Apr 19, 2006)

Well Movistar finally took a win, so not sure who I'm going to predict for tomorrow. Lots of little climbs there. Gilbert will hang with the main group, and it seems as long as there isn't a TON of pressure Thor is having no issues. No climbs big enough near the finish for Contador to go, even though there's a rest day the following day.

Not sure the peloton wants a breakaway rider to get it again. 

Going to say someone in Orange... Euskatel or Rabobank trying to salvage their Tour.


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## il sogno (Jul 15, 2002)

I think this would be a good stage for Voekler. I would love to see Van Garderen go for more KOM points.


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## biobanker (Jun 11, 2009)

I wonder if theyd let the break go if Sammy was in it. He is 2:36 back. 

Im going to say Frank today. It looks to me that the riders arnt taking Frank seriously. They seem only to be marking Andy.


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## Sojourneyman (Jun 22, 2007)

Holy flying mechanic Batman!

Hadn't quite seen such flexible and risky mechanic work before. The beauties of watching a stage from 130k out.


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## Len J (Jan 28, 2004)

Bad crash. Miller and vino involved. Vino abandoned!

Len


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## tethernaut (Dec 11, 2008)

Goddamn crashfest this year. Sorry to see Vino go out that way.


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## Marc (Jan 23, 2005)

Len J said:


> Bad crash. Miller and vino involved. Vino abandoned!
> 
> Len


Not just bad.

Vino was damn lucky those trees were "just" in a ditch, and not the edge of a cliff.

Van den Broeck out too. Tried to get on his bike and couldn't even do that.


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## robdamanii (Feb 13, 2006)

Van den Broeck... Sucks. He had SO much promise this year.

Another hit to my fantasy team...


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## Len J (Jan 28, 2004)

Marc said:


> Not just bad.
> 
> Vino was damn lucky those trees were "just" in a ditch, and not the edge of a cliff.
> 
> Van den Broeck out too. Tried to get on his bike and couldn't even do that.


Looks like peleton has stopped racing. 6 + min gap. 

Len


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## den bakker (Nov 13, 2004)

Len J said:


> Looks like peleton has stopped racing. 6 + min gap.
> 
> Len


history repeating. same guys slowing down, same guys complaining.


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## Marc (Jan 23, 2005)

Sprinters dropped...back to racing.


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## OldEndicottHiway (Jul 16, 2007)

This is so not funny. Poor guys. Contador went down too just before the big crash, apparently he clipped a wheel. Two RS riders went down, and Millar.

All these crashes are an incredible downer. 

That makes two oldsters (Vino and Horner) going out in a bad way. [email protected]


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## Opus51569 (Jul 21, 2009)

Sad to see Vino go out that way.


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## robdamanii (Feb 13, 2006)

Is the peloton just more nervous these days or are the roads just that dangerous? 

Seems like the last few years have been filled with crashes and abandons.


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## matchmaker (Aug 15, 2009)

This is unbelievable, everyone goes down this year. I have never seen anything like this. So many GC contenders taken out by crashes.


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## Len J (Jan 28, 2004)

Speeds they do descents + tightness of pack = small error = bad crash 

Len


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## Cinelli 82220 (Dec 2, 2010)

Good grief, Vino has broken/cracked pelvis and broken femur.
VDB has broken shoulder.
Zabriski broken wrist.
Frederick Willems broken collarbone.
All in just one crash.


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## Marc (Jan 23, 2005)

Cinelli 82220 said:


> Good grief, Vino has broken pelvis and femur.
> VDB has broken shoulder.
> Zabriski broken wrist.


And a broken elbow for Vino I believe...


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## Len J (Jan 28, 2004)

Cinelli 82220 said:


> Good grief, Vino has broken pelvis and femur.
> VDB has broken shoulder.
> Zabriski broken wrist.


Am I the only one who thinks his teammates were dumb for carrying him out of the trees like they did? My first thought was they could be doing more damage. 

Len


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## Marc (Jan 23, 2005)

Len J said:


> Am I the only one who thinks his teammates were dumb for carrying him out of the trees like they did? My first thought was they could be doing more damage.
> 
> Len


In retrospect, not a good idea...then again, they needed to make sure that he was found by the ambulance etc. None of the cameras seemed to know someone had gone over, til Astana was seen digging in that ditch.


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## Cinelli 82220 (Dec 2, 2010)

Hindsight is always 20/20. At first they thought it was a sprained ankle.


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## Len J (Jan 28, 2004)

Cinelli 82220 said:


> Hindsight is always 20/20. At first they thought it was a sprained ankle.


It was clear watching on tv he couldn't help himself.........first rule of first aid, never move the injured until you are sure.

Best intentions can still = dumb and dangerous. 

Len


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## allison (Apr 19, 2006)

So bummed. Watching a bit behind on DVR, but, man, what a bad one. Hard to say now that crashes aren't affecting the outcome with all the top 10-20 possibilities crashing out and some of the top-5 guys injured/hurt to boot.

Not saying it's the course or the riders, but man. Only a few really lucky guys at this point. We'll see if they can stay out of trouble too.


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## Cinelli 82220 (Dec 2, 2010)

Thank God Evans was back on the bike and okay. 
I've never seen four abandons from one crash before.
Plus Txurruka earlier makes five riders crashing out today. Hopefully no more.


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## OldEndicottHiway (Jul 16, 2007)

Len J said:


> Am I the only one who thinks his teammates were dumb for carrying him out of the trees like they did? My first thought was they could be doing more damage.
> 
> Len



Len that was exactly my first thought. In fact I was hollering at the TV..."stop moving him!" The possibility of a spinal/hip/pelvis fracture looked high. Serious damage can be done by moving a person without proper safegaurds.

Poor Vino...he's going to have a long recovery ahead of him.

Zabriskie is out too I heard. Gonna hurt Garmin, he's a terrific tempo setter. 


Tour de Crash 2011... forget Little White Lunchbags, they'll need to start stuffing the musettes with antidepressants.


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## den bakker (Nov 13, 2004)

OldEndicottHiway said:


> Tour de Crash 2011... forget Little White Lunchbags, they'll need to start stuffing the musettes with antidepressants.


That's what pot belge is for


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## Len J (Jan 28, 2004)

OldEndicottHiway said:


> Len that was exactly my first thought. In fact I was hollering at the TV..."stop moving him!" The possibility of a spinal/hip/pelvis fracture looked high. Serious damage can be done by moving a person without proper safegaurds.
> 
> Poor Vino...he's going to have a long recovery ahead of him.
> 
> ...


CBS is reporting that they moved him after he was examined by the race MD.......hope that was true. Although I didn't see anyone else climbing that hill. 

Hope he recovers.

Looking at where that wreck occurred toward the front of the group, it's amazing more weren't hurt at that speed. 

Len


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## Marc (Jan 23, 2005)

Break away riders hit buy a TV race-car and into a barbed wire fence Flecha, also Hoogerland.


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## Henry Porter (Jul 25, 2006)

Marc said:


> Break away riders hit buy a race-car and into a barbed wire fence Flecha...


That is ****ing ridiculous.


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## Len J (Jan 28, 2004)

Holy crap. Car just takes out the break.....rider goes into a barbed wire fence! 

Len


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## Cinelli 82220 (Dec 2, 2010)

*Another crash!*

TV car just swerved into the break and knocked Flecha and Hoogeland off the road. Flecha is beat up but back on, Hoogeland hit barbed wire fence. He's up but bleeding.


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## MattSoutherden (Jun 24, 2009)

WHAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAT???

That France TV car was insane!

:yikes::yikes::yikes::yikes:

Can this Tour get any more ridiculous?


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## den bakker (Nov 13, 2004)

Len J said:


> Holy crap. Car just takes out the break.....rider goes into a barbed wire fence!
> 
> Len


that was flecha, which seems sort of ok. Considered. 
Don't worry Thomas, the tv team got your back.


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## Marc (Jan 23, 2005)

Looks like the chase is off a bit...


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## Marc (Jan 23, 2005)

Hoogerland back on the bike. More than a bit of blood on his leg.


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## krott5333 (Oct 2, 2009)

stupid cars, get off the f'n road if you can't drive!! this is just ridiculous. They'll have to start requiring all cars be smart cars so they take up less space on these narrow roads. If I was Hoogeland I'd hunt that driver down and beat him senseless.


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## OldEndicottHiway (Jul 16, 2007)

[email protected] 

I don't know what to say.



Hoog and Flecha should be given a full tow back up to Voekler.


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## krott5333 (Oct 2, 2009)

Hoogeland's dropped behind the peloton, he's probably done. 

This is depressing.


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## Len J (Jan 28, 2004)

OldEndicottHiway said:


> [email protected]
> 
> I don't know what to say.
> 
> ...


Watching the replay, it's amazing Voekler stayed upright....great bike handling. 

Len


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## krott5333 (Oct 2, 2009)

Marc said:


> Hoogerland back on the bike. More than a bit of blood on his leg.


And I'm sure his back doesn't feel too great either.


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## KoroninK (Aug 9, 2010)

I hope they ban that driver from ever being in a car near any bike race again. That was just wrong.


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## caseyls (Sep 18, 2007)

Can we also ban these Proform TdF commercials?


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## Henry Porter (Jul 25, 2006)

KoroninK said:


> I hope they ban that driver from ever being in a car near any bike race again. That was just wrong.


That is the absolute minimum. I think criminal charges are in order along with civil penalties.


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## OldEndicottHiway (Jul 16, 2007)

The more I see that car bash into those guys the more p*ssed I get. That sort of thing could have easily resulted in the death of those poor guys. 

Not to mention it may have just ruined both of their Tours. Hoog's legs looks like he went through a meat grinder. 

Unreal. Just unreal. All of it,.


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## Len J (Jan 28, 2004)

krott5333 said:


> Hoogeland's dropped behind the peloton, he's probably done.
> 
> This is depressing.


If he can get in under the time limit, he has a rest day tomorrow. It would be aweful if he was outside the time and didn't get to wear the polkadot jersey. 

Len


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## MattSoutherden (Jun 24, 2009)

krott5333 said:


> Hoogeland's dropped behind the peloton, he's probably done.
> 
> This is depressing.


Given the pace he was going after he shot out the back of the peloton, I wonder if he'll need dispensation for the time limit.


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## nismo73 (Jul 29, 2009)

France car = Bonecrusher


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## cda 455 (Aug 9, 2010)

OldEndicottHiway said:


> The more I see that car bash into those guys the more p*ssed I get. That sort of thing could have easily resulted in the death of those poor guys.
> 
> Not to mention it may have just ruined both of their Tours. Hoog's legs looks like he went through a meat grinder.
> 
> Unreal. Just unreal. All of it,.



BARBED-WIRE FENCE is what shredded Hoog's body  !!


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## Len J (Jan 28, 2004)

MattSoutherden said:


> Given the pace he was going after he shot out the back of the peloton, I wonder if he'll need dispensation for the time limit.


He'll probably finish w the grupetto.....they were 8 or so minutes back. 

Len


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## Marc (Jan 23, 2005)

Henry Porter said:


> That is the absolute minimum. I think criminal charges are in order along with civil penalties.


Agreed.


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## tethernaut (Dec 11, 2008)

This is nucking futz! Now all we need is that stupid Clean Bottle guy to take out a rider and this day will be complete.


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## SeeVee (Sep 25, 2005)

MattSoutherden said:


> WHAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAT???
> 
> That France TV car was insane!
> 
> ...


French TV car? Voeckler in the break?


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## OldEndicottHiway (Jul 16, 2007)

cda 455 said:


> BARBED-WIRE FENCE is what shredded Hoog's body  !!



I've seen firsthand what barb wire will do to a horse that runs through it...

It'll be a miracle is Hoog is not filleted.


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## slamy (Mar 15, 2004)

OldEndicottHiway said:


> I've seen firsthand what barb wire will do to a horse that runs through it...
> 
> It'll be a miracle is Hoog is not filleted.


The wire wasn't what he hit as hard. Watch it again he moves a fence post with his back. Those things are buried in the ground and he knocks one out. He'll be lucky if he can get out of bed tomorrow. I hope he makes it and punches that driver in his mouth.


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## Redmedic (Sep 1, 2010)

Geez at this point I think shinguards and a padded suit may be i order.


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## OldEndicottHiway (Jul 16, 2007)

Len J said:


> Watching the replay, it's amazing Voekler stayed upright....*great bike handling. *Len




Agree wholeheartedly. 

But also some "lucky" placement. Had he been a half bike length back, he wouldn't have stood a chance.

He's more than earned his win (yellow) today, but I also think it won't be as sweet as it could've been for him given what happened to the other two.

Also after the first crash and the peloton holding up...that changed overall standings for sure.

[email protected] depressing day for racing.


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## Tabularosa78 (May 23, 2009)

Looks like Contador was intentionally bumped from this angle.

http://www.steephill.tv/players/you...shboard=tour-de-france&id=GwviTmZZSlk&yr=2011


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## cda 455 (Aug 9, 2010)

Tabularosa78 said:


> Looks like Contador was intentionally bumped from this angle.
> 
> http://www.steephill.tv/players/youtube3/?title=Vladimir+Karpets+(intentionally)+bumps+Contador+causing+crash&dashboard=tour-de-france&id=GwviTmZZSlk&yr=2011


I just saw this vid too.

Karpet intentionally bumped him.


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## weltyed (Feb 6, 2004)

it does look like that!

it will not be a quiet rest day.



Tabularosa78 said:


> Looks like Contador was intentionally bumped from this angle.
> 
> http://www.steephill.tv/players/you...shboard=tour-de-france&id=GwviTmZZSlk&yr=2011


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## Topher (Jun 5, 2005)

Worst day of racing ever. I don't enjoy watching when it goes like this. wtf.


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## Marc (Jan 23, 2005)

Jeepers...still waiting on KOM presentation for Hoogerland to get cleaned up...


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## penn_rider (Jul 11, 2009)

Crazy day! Not enjoying this at all....


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## Marc (Jan 23, 2005)

cda 455 said:


> I just saw this vid too.
> 
> Karpet intentionally bumped him.


Refs are looking at it...


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## robdamanii (Feb 13, 2006)

Could be a case of him trying to avoid something in the road, but maybe not

I wonder if this is how the peloton really feels about pistolero.


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## cda 455 (Aug 9, 2010)

Marc said:


> Refs are looking at it...


I wonder if they'll ban his butt from the race if they find him guilty?


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## weltyed (Feb 6, 2004)

is this the 1_13 _edition of le tour?

should be called the grand _debacle_.


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## mtrider05 (Aug 8, 2009)

robdamanii said:


> Could be a case of him trying to avoid something in the road, but maybe not
> 
> I wonder if this is how the peloton really feels about pistolero.


There's no way, just his upper body moves.


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## Marc (Jan 23, 2005)

cda 455 said:


> I wonder if they'll ban his butt from the race if they find him guilty?


He'd probably suffer the same fate as the idiot car driver today...I'd wager.


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## burgrat (Nov 18, 2005)

burgrat said:


> Thomas Voeckler will go for this one.


Good call me!:thumbsup:


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## TerminatorX91 (Mar 27, 2011)

Tabularosa78 said:


> Looks like Contador was intentionally bumped from this angle.
> 
> http://www.steephill.tv/players/you...shboard=tour-de-france&id=GwviTmZZSlk&yr=2011


Looked clear or flagrant to me. Karpets or whoever that was who shoved Contador should be ejected from the Tour unless they have a reasonable explanation in their defense... with a corroborating witness. I can't image what what would be a reasonable and acceptable excuse though. The UCI should also be looking at this for a possible suspension.

This was very ugly stage.


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## TerminatorX91 (Mar 27, 2011)

OldEndicottHiway said:


> The more I see that car bash into those guys the more p*ssed I get. That sort of thing could have easily resulted in the death of those poor guys.
> 
> Not to mention it may have just ruined both of their Tours. Hoog's legs looks like he went through a meat grinder.
> 
> Unreal. Just unreal. All of it,.



When I saw the replay I was shocked. These press vehicle drivers are out of control this year. Flecha and Hoogerland should tell the Tour organization to take their consolation prize and stick up their arse. I also think Voeckler should refuse to wear the yellow jersey on Tuesday. 

Ugly, ugly day.


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## den bakker (Nov 13, 2004)

TerminatorX91 said:


> Looked clear or flagrant to me. Karpets or whoever that was who shoved Contador should be ejected from the Tour unless they have a reasonable explanation in their defense... with a corroborating witness. I can't image what what would be a reasonable and acceptable excuse though. The UCI should also be looking at this for a possible suspension.


what is strange though is that if karpets did it on purpose than not one rider around seem surpriced at all, they just go along their merry business.


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## OldEndicottHiway (Jul 16, 2007)

TerminatorX91 said:


> When I saw the replay I was shocked. These press vehicle drivers are out of control this year. Flecha and Hoogerland should tell the Tour organization to take their consolation prize and stick up their arse. I also think Voeckler should refuse to wear the yellow jersey on Tuesday.
> 
> Ugly, ugly day.



I understand your frustration. But imho it's not the Tour Organization's fault the driver wasn't paying attention and overcorrected....right into the riders. 

They've dealt with wayward motos taking out riders. I'm sure they'll deal with the driver of that car. My guess is, the driver of that car feels horrible. Not that this absolves his or her dangerous driving that nearly seriously maimed or worse, killed a couple guys...but he or she will not be sleeping well for a while. 

Sad for all involved.


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## nims (Jul 7, 2009)

OldEndicottHiway said:


> I understand your frustration. But imho it's not the Tour Organization's fault the driver wasn't paying attention and overcorrected....right into the riders.
> 
> They've dealt with wayward motos taking out riders. I'm sure they'll deal with the driver of that car. My guess is, the driver of that car feels horrible. Not that this absolves his or her dangerous driving that nearly seriously maimed or worse, killed a couple guys...but he or she will not be sleeping well for a while.
> 
> Sad for all involved.


Yeah it wasn't intentional from the driver but you are responsible for what your car is doing. I bet it's not easy driving in the tour with radios blaring, passengers doing stuff etc. It was an accident, I don't think as someone suggested that there will be criminal charges for this. 

Don't the race referees control when and where drivers can pass the riders? I mean they should have prevented a pass on that narrow road. 

Oh well, lets hope the rest day calms down teams, manager, drivers and everyone a bit. They are all so nervous right now.


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## cool tech (Jul 12, 2008)

mtrider05 said:


> There's no way, just his upper body moves.


Nah, it looks like he was hooked, judging by the lack of response from other riders


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## moabbiker (Sep 11, 2002)

Henry Porter said:


> That is the absolute minimum. I think criminal charges are in order along with civil penalties.


The car just sped on by and didn't bother to stop. I don't know what the laws are in France, but in most places failure to stop and leave the scene of an accident is a criminal felony.


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## Marc (Jan 23, 2005)

moabbiker said:


> The car just sped on by and didn't bother to stop. I don't know what the laws are in France, but in most places failure to stop and leave the scene of an accident is a criminal felony.


Car/driver are booted from the race:

http://velonews.competitor.com/2011...-car-that-struck-two-riders-on-stage-9_183085


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## Henry Porter (Jul 25, 2006)

Marc said:


> Car/driver are booted from the race:
> 
> http://velonews.competitor.com/2011...-car-that-struck-two-riders-on-stage-9_183085


I'm going to be very disappointed if the discipline stops with this slap on the wrist. Cyclists the world over would benefit from criminal charges as it might do something for awareness.


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## den bakker (Nov 13, 2004)

OldEndicottHiway said:


> I've seen firsthand what barb wire will do to a horse that runs through it...
> 
> It'll be a miracle is Hoog is not filleted.


not quite filleted but....




(nasty pic)
https://cdn2.media.cyclingnews.futurecdn.net//2011/07/10/2/bettiniphoto_0085495_1_full_600.jpg


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## cda 455 (Aug 9, 2010)

den bakker said:


> not quite filleted but....
> 
> 
> 
> ...


:eek6: :eek6:


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## zero85ZEN (Oct 11, 2002)

TerminatorX91 said:


> Looked clear or flagrant to me. Karpets or whoever that was who shoved Contador should be ejected from the Tour unless they have a reasonable explanation in their defense... with a corroborating witness. I can't image what what would be a reasonable and acceptable excuse though. The UCI should also be looking at this for a possible suspension.
> 
> This was very ugly stage.


EDIT: Whooah! I stand corrected. it doesn't look like anybody was in front of Contador and Karpets just leans over and smacks him. Does look curious....

Could they have hooked handlebars?

Originally I wrote: How can you tell anything from that video? Nothing can really be seen. Most likely he rubbed tires with the rider in front of him...that can lead to a nasty direction change very fast as the rider in back struggles to correct and lean against the wheel in front. I'm guessing the fall was a result of careless riding and physics and no human malice was involved at all. But who knows? Probably only Contador and the riders right near him at the time.


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## OldEndicottHiway (Jul 16, 2007)

den bakker said:


> not quite filleted but....
> 
> 
> 
> ...



oh. my. gawld.


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## biobanker (Jun 11, 2009)

Driver should be charged with reckless driving and then failure to remain.

He cost both Hoog and Fletcha top 5 in a stage and possibly a stage win and possibly making it to Paris at all, and for Hoog possibly making it to Paris wearing the dots. Those guys will be a mess tomorrow.

Racing is racing, but this was not part of the Tour and was not a spectator. This is where the lawyers need to step in.


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## AJL (Jul 9, 2009)

cda 455 said:


> :eek6: :eek6:


+ :eek6::eek6::eek6::eek6:

That's _*nasty*_, especially the deep cut on the side of his left knee.


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## atpjunkie (Mar 23, 2002)

*yes they do*



nims said:


> Yeah it wasn't intentional from the driver but you are responsible for what your car is doing. I bet it's not easy driving in the tour with radios blaring, passengers doing stuff etc. It was an accident, I don't think as someone suggested that there will be criminal charges for this.
> 
> Don't the race referees control when and where drivers can pass the riders? I mean they should have prevented a pass on that narrow road.
> 
> Oh well, lets hope the rest day calms down teams, manager, drivers and everyone a bit. They are all so nervous right now.


and the race referees had told them to pull over to let Voecklers car through so he could get a feed

they didn't pull over, they tried to pass where there was no room and took out two riders

so the race referees were trying to control it, the a*holes didn't listen


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## culdeus (May 5, 2005)

atpjunkie said:


> and the race referees had told them to pull over to let Voecklers car through so he could get a feed
> 
> they didn't pull over, they tried to pass where there was no room and took out two riders
> 
> so the race referees were trying to control it, the a*holes didn't listen


If this is true, then jail is appropriate. What is the French definition of Aggravated Battery?


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## asciibaron (Aug 11, 2006)

the driver isn't going to jail - it wasn't done on purpose - team cars have taken out riders in the past. this is bad and could have been worse, but ti wasn't criminal. and we only know what the ASO is telling us happened - they might just be trying to save face.

i feel bad for all involved - i am amazed that JH wasn't seriously hurt.

this tour is a mess.


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## robdamanii (Feb 13, 2006)

zero85ZEN said:


> EDIT: Whooah! I stand corrected. it doesn't look like anybody was in front of Contador and Karpets just leans over and smacks him. Does look curious....
> 
> Could they have hooked handlebars?
> 
> Originally I wrote: How can you tell anything from that video? Nothing can really be seen. Most likely he rubbed tires with the rider in front of him...that can lead to a nasty direction change very fast as the rider in back struggles to correct and lean against the wheel in front. I'm guessing the fall was a result of careless riding and physics and no human malice was involved at all. But who knows? Probably only Contador and the riders right near him at the time.


The story I saw was the Contador tangled his bars with Karpet's saddle. When he jerked the bars free, that caused the Karpets motion everyone says is a "push" and caused AC to head into the barriers.


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