# 2008 SOMEC DIVINO XLT or 2008 GUERCIOTTI KHAYBAR (DIQUIGIOVANNI TEAM EDITION)



## master2129 (Mar 30, 2007)

My friend went to Eurobike and came back with some amazing pictures and information packets from top frame manufacturers that we don't see to often here on US soil. For years I have been very interested in them and have been sitting on the fence as to when I would actually pull the trigger on a custom frame build purchase. 

Two of the manufacturers in the pile of catalogs that caught my eye years ago are SOMEC and Guerciotti. Both of these Italian manufacturers have some very deep rooted building history in Steel Tubing. But both companies are now working their magic on full-carbon tubing. Both still claim to build everything by hand in Italy (which is very rare these days) and they offer custom measured frames to really fit the rider like hand and glove. I had a fit session at my LBS last month and I believe I have everything needed to place an actual order.

I have narrowed it down to the two full-carbon frameset models that I actually want to drop my hard earned coin on: 2008 DIVINO XLT or 2008 Geurciotti Khaybar (Diquigiovani Team Edition). But I am so torn between the two choices on the table. If any of you own earlier versions of these full-carbon models can you give me some feedback on the overall ride quality? The Guerciotti is currently being raced by a handful of European Teams (Diquigiovanni - being the most notable in the larger races in Europe) I know that I probably can't go wrong with either of these manufacturers given their solid reputation in Europe (Italy specifically), but the frames are pretty expensive and I just want to make sure I'm making the right decision. Any help or insight from you current SOMEC or Guerciotti owners would be appreciated. Thank you in advance for your help.


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## master2129 (Mar 30, 2007)

*Pictures of the 2 Framesets*

My pictures did not post. Here is my 2nd attempt to post them.


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## Mapei (Feb 3, 2004)

Two great marques. I honestly don't know what to say about today's models, but back in the 1980's Guerciotti was the classier name, with a higher price tag to match. The Guerciottis I test-rode at the time handled more quickly than the Somec, but they also rode a little more harshly. I ended up buying a Somec, BTW, which I still ride regularly. 

In any case, I recently saw a new all-carbon Guerciotti in the flesh. I was kind of disappointed, as it seemed to be constructed from a generic set of tubes. That picture you have of the Somec, meantime, has a genuine custom look to it, at least when it comes to the main triangle.

I hope this post doesn't confuse you even more.


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## master2129 (Mar 30, 2007)

Thanks Mapei. Your insight is valuable. I have seen both bikes up close and they are marvelous machines. The full-carbon Guerciotti's are supposedly much more comfortable than the Steel predecesors. I have heard that SOMEC indeed makes a very comfortable frameset. It appears that there are few people in the forum who have ventured outside the Trek, Specialized, Giant, Cannondale or Scott bubble. For this reason, I am even more excited to ride something very uncommon (at least in my local area). I often tire of seeing the same 'ole shop brand bikes people pull up on at every race here in US. At a Gran Fondo in Europe its a buffet of different framesets manufactured by small builders that you never really see or hear about here in the US. For me personally, I find it very refreshing as a gear nut. I appreciate your reply.


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## keppler (May 25, 2007)

master2129 said:


> It appears that there are few people in the forum who have ventured outside the Trek, Specialized, Giant, Cannondale or Scott bubble. For this reason, I am even more excited to ride something very uncommon (at least in my local area). I often tire of seeing the same 'ole shop brand bikes people pull up on at every race here in US. At a Gran Fondo in Europe its a buffet of different framesets manufactured by small builders that you never really see or hear about here in the US. For me personally, I find it very refreshing as a gear nut. I appreciate your reply.


I too had this dilema upon purchasing my first road bike. I didn't have as much knowledge as you do about what you want, but I did know I wanted something Italian, preferably built there, and possibly even with a racing pedigree. 

The shop that did my fitting had a wide range of Italian frames, some several years old that were never used. Due to cost and such I ended up with a 1999 Basso ZER aluminum frame. Little did I know how sparse the information is on this frame. 

But I did finally find a UK website that used to sell them, and it turns out they were made for only 2 years specifically for a Tour de France racing team. I've enjoyed plenty of long and tough rides (and some races) on my bike this summer and have not seen any other Basso bikes around which is fine by me.

Both your frames look great and come from excellent builders, but if I were to go on looks and frame structure alone I'd pick the Somec. But I don't think you can go wrong with either one. Just remember to post lots of pictures here when you unwrap the frame and then build it up.


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## bigbill (Feb 15, 2005)

I was in Napoli a few days ago and I came away disappointed in what I saw. The shops have very little in the way for metal frames. With the exception of some low end welded steel and aluminum, everything was full carbon with some local name on it. Looking at the frames, they looked alot like the Douglas (Colorado Cyclist brand) that sells for around $1100 frame and fork in the US. The bike shop guys swear that they are Italian made, but it is hard to mistake the 12X large weave carbon wrap. The frame and fork were around 1500 euro or close to $2000 USD. 

Since riding in Italy, I have seen many nice bikes that have tempted me to buy a carbon bike. The nicest ones have been Wilier, Bianchi, and Whistle. Most of the bikes I see however have been Cannondales and Treks with the occassional Colnago.


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## master2129 (Mar 30, 2007)

keppler said:


> I too had this dilema upon purchasing my first road bike. I didn't have as much knowledge as you do about what you want, but I did know I wanted something Italian, preferably built there, and possibly even with a racing pedigree.
> 
> The shop that did my fitting had a wide range of Italian frames, some several years old that were never used. Due to cost and such I ended up with a 1999 Basso ZER aluminum frame. Little did I know how sparse the information is on this frame.
> 
> ...


Thanks Keppler. I am really leaning toward the SOMEC. There is a shop in town that actually sells both brands. It's a smaller boutique style shop with various Italian Framesets. Only challenge is that he has all the frames in one size samples. They are not built up because each frameset is made custom for each rider. In my case the SOMEC Divino, should I build it, will cost me around $3900. The Guerciotti Khaybar will cost me around $3725. I think either of the models is well worth the money especially if they are building to perfectly fit my quirky body. I am really leaning hard on the side of SOMEC. I just really like the fork that it comes with and the integrated seatpost. It just looks fast. I will for sure post my pics when I finally get the frame here to build, whichever one it will be.


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## master2129 (Mar 30, 2007)

bigbill said:


> I was in Napoli a few days ago and I came away disappointed in what I saw. The shops have very little in the way for metal frames. With the exception of some low end welded steel and aluminum, everything was full carbon with some local name on it. Looking at the frames, they looked alot like the Douglas (Colorado Cyclist brand) that sells for around $1100 frame and fork in the US. The bike shop guys swear that they are Italian made, but it is hard to mistake the 12X large weave carbon wrap. The frame and fork were around 1500 euro or close to $2000 USD.
> 
> Since riding in Italy, I have seen many nice bikes that have tempted me to buy a carbon bike. The nicest ones have been Wilier, Bianchi, and Whistle. Most of the bikes I see however have been Cannondales and Treks with the occassional Colnago.


I know exactly what you mean BigBill. It's hard to sift thru what I call the "true place of origin blur". Lots of frame say made in Italy, when in reality it was only "finished or painted in Italy". Many start out at Martec in Taiwan. Not a bad thing, just a little deceiving in my book.


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## keppler (May 25, 2007)

master2129 said:


> I know exactly what you mean BigBill. It's hard to sift thru what I call the "true place of origin blur". Lots of frame say made in Italy, when in reality it was only "finished or painted in Italy". Many start out at Martec in Taiwan. Not a bad thing, just a little deceiving in my book.


When I was shopping around for a bike I saw that Colnago's lower end frames actually say 'Made in Taiwan', but their high end frames like C50 are made in Italy. Of course those Italian frames cost alone what most fully equipped Record bikes cost. 

I did see an older (and very fit and capable looking) cyclist on my Saturday ride with a beautiful black Colnago (didn't see what model he had). I've been very tempted to upgrade my drivetrain and wheels for my curent bike, but part of me now wants to wait a few years and buy a very nicely built higher end full carbon frame (Italian hopefully) equipped with Record and some killer wheels. It's still cheaper than a Z06 Corvette....

master2129, what is the name of the shop you're buying from? Do they have a website?


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## santosjep (Jul 15, 2004)

*SOMEC and Guerciotti*

I have been a great admirer of these two builders since i saw them on local club rides in the early 1990's. Currently, I have 2 Guerciottis (Twister and Cross Force) and a SOMEC (Starlight). I love riding them but unfortunately you might not benefit from my riding experiences with these bikes, on a comparison level with the Divino, since my steeds are all Al/Carbon combo.

I have to attest to the ride quality/comfort for the SOMEC. Although my frame is made of Alu/carbon (XLR8R/Columbus muscle), I've ridden a couple of centuries on my SOMEC and did not feel haggared by road vibrations even with Ksyrium SLs. 

Obviously, there are a couple of disadvantages for getting a SOMEC bike. 1) They have a limited number of dealers 2) They cost an arm and a leg.

Good luck with your decision and have fun!

Joe


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## innergel (Jun 14, 2002)

master2129 said:


> My pictures did not post. Here is my 2nd attempt to post them.


The Guerc reminds me of the Madone's of a few years ago with this years paint job. 

From the two you posted, I'd go with the Somec. That appears the way you are leaning too.


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## Guest (Sep 17, 2007)

master2129 said:


> Thanks Mapei. Your insight is valuable. I have seen both bikes up close and they are marvelous machines. The full-carbon Guerciotti's are supposedly much more comfortable than the Steel predecesors. .


That would be quite a feat if true.

I have a steel ( ELOS) Guerciotti that is truly one of the smoothest riding, most comfortable bikes I have ever thrown a leg over.

Pretty hard to imagine the Carbon version would be more comfortable than that.


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## Spezzoto (Dec 17, 2004)

*Let me help you a little bit.*

Master 2129,

I undestand what your questions and concern are. I spend 3 years in Italy and took me a while to understandthe whole italian frame customization. I have a friend that builds them and he buy the tubings from Dedacciai. I am not sure what Somec tubings are but the Kabar use a dedacciai Z108 main triangle with a Ice tail rear triangle. Now remember that the bike companies buy that from Dedacciai and then put them together in their factory. Those tubes can also come from taiwan because the demand of carbon fiber these days with cheap production prices. I know most of the frames are now made in Taiwan like Pinarello and colnago. I got pictures also to prove that. But they get paint in Italy. I am sure the Guerciotti is made and paint in Italy like my friend frames because the demand is not like the one for high end frames like colnago or pinarello. Here is the website and if you look at the products area you will see the bike Z-108 chorus which is the same that the Kabar in dedacciai tubing. My two frames are the ones in italian colors on the website.

http://www.ciclispezzotto.com/

That is why I got the frames from my friend; because he painted mine the way I want it and second I do not pay "brand" price that is about $500 dollars more because of cost of advertisement. Let me know if you got any other questions. But I can tell you that the Kabar is a good Italian frames same as the Somec. Just check what tubing you get on each and what waranty you get from each purchase.


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## stevesbike (Jun 3, 2002)

Italian carbon frames are underwhelming in my opinion. R&D was never the Italian strength-it was craftsmanship and touch with a torch. All that is meaningless with carbon. Few of the Italian carbon frames match up to spec with others and their warranties seem typically bad. On top of that, what's the point of paying a premium for Italian when many of the frames come out of Asia? At least with Cervelo you know there's a heavy investment of R&D behind the frames.


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## Spezzoto (Dec 17, 2004)

*hard decisions*



stevesbike said:


> Italian carbon frames are underwhelming in my opinion. R&D was never the Italian strength-it was craftsmanship and touch with a torch. All that is meaningless with carbon. Few of the Italian carbon frames match up to spec with others and their warranties seem typically bad. On top of that, what's the point of paying a premium for Italian when many of the frames come out of Asia? At least with Cervelo you know there's a heavy investment of R&D behind the frames.


Some people in the inside still want something unique or something that when you stop on a group ride at the coffee shop nobody has. Even that I agreed that technology has change bikes a lot and American, German and Taiwan bikes are up to speed in weight, stiffness and responsiveness I still get an Italian unless somebody else buy it for me...


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## master2129 (Mar 30, 2007)

santosjep said:


> I have been a great admirer of these two builders since i saw them on local club rides in the early 1990's. Currently, I have 2 Guerciottis (Twister and Cross Force) and a SOMEC (Starlight). I love riding them but unfortunately you might not benefit from my riding experiences with these bikes, on a comparison level with the Divino, since my steeds are all Al/Carbon combo.
> 
> I have to attest to the ride quality/comfort for the SOMEC. Although my frame is made of Alu/carbon (XLR8R/Columbus muscle), I've ridden a couple of centuries on my SOMEC and did not feel haggared by road vibrations even with Ksyrium SLs.
> 
> ...


Thanks Joe for all the feedback. The SOMEC DIVINO is so incredible to look at. I went down to the shop again this evening to stare at the sample hanging on the wall. I am so ready to pull the trigger on the SOMEC, but the Guerciotti Khaybar is such a nice frame. If I save up for even two more months, I can afford to get both. It's a big financial committment, but I tend to spend really good money on a frame and keep it around for a long time. With the custom made nature of the purchase I would have no reason to sell the frames after purchase. I would just keep them until my knees and hips give out. I will let you know what I decide very soon. 

To everyone that has replied, thank you so much. I really do like everyone in this forum. You have all been so helpful.


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## stevesbike (Jun 3, 2002)

how about Storck--not many of them around (at least here in So Cal). German engineering and carbon seem to go together while Italian goes with brazing and red paint...


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## master2129 (Mar 30, 2007)

stevesbike said:


> how about Storck--not many of them around (at least here in So Cal). German engineering and carbon seem to go together while Italian goes with brazing and red paint...


Steve 2 guys in our club ride Storcks. Very nice framesets. I am really set on either the SOMEC or GUERCIOTTI. Plus, they have had some problems with their framesets. One of the Storcks has the clear coat bubbling on the Top Tube. The other frame has a really nasty creak in the BB area when he gets out of the saddle to climb. Our local shop has tried to fix it with a new BB, but they say its the actual shell. Storck won't warranty it because he races the frameset which I guess is stated in the warranty under "known excessive abuse" according to what he has told me. He actually has a new Kuota Khan on layaway right now. So he will be on a Kuota this next season. Lots of Italian Manufacturers will be represented next Spring in our riding group. Thanks for the suggestion.


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## bigbill (Feb 15, 2005)

master2129 said:


> Steve 2 guys in our club ride Storcks. Very nice framesets. I am really set on either the SOMEC or GUERCIOTTI. Plus, they have had some problems with their framesets. One of the Storcks has the clear coat bubbling on the Top Tube. The other frame has a really nasty creak in the BB area when he gets out of the saddle to climb. Our local shop has tried to fix it with a new BB, but they say its the actual shell. Storck won't warranty it because he races the frameset which I guess is stated in the warranty under "known excessive abuse" according to what he has told me. He actually has a new Kuota Khan on layaway right now. So he will be on a Kuota this next season. Lots of Italian Manufacturers will be represented next Spring in our riding group. Thanks for the suggestion.



Bottom line, get what makes you happy. I have a Pegoretti Big Leg Emma which is a ridiculously expensive welded steel frame. It makes me happy, I see it and I want to go for a ride. Three hours into a ride I look down at the bike and it makes me happy to be riding. That is all that matters. If it is what you want, buy it. It is not a good deal if it insn't exactly what you want. The Somec is a beautiful bike with a great heritage.


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## keppler (May 25, 2007)

As if you need another reason to select the Somec.....


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## master2129 (Mar 30, 2007)

Geez! That may have sealed the deal for me. What a beauty! Thanks Keppler.


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## cdhbrad (Feb 18, 2003)

I currently ride a Fondriest, which I love, but if I were in the market for a new Italian ride, it would be the Somec for sure between the two you have selected. Beautiful bike.


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## keppler (May 25, 2007)

cdhbrad said:


> I currently ride a Fondriest, which I love, but if I were in the market for a new Italian ride, it would be the Somec for sure between the two you have selected. Beautiful bike.


You'll have to toss us some pictures of that Fondriest, another one of my favorite Italian brands.


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## master2129 (Mar 30, 2007)

keppler said:


> You'll have to toss us some pictures of that Fondriest, another one of my favorite Italian brands.


I wish that Fondriest would come back to the USA in full force. Since Torpedo (SP?) bought them they have seemed to vanish from US soil. I do love Fondriest, but I question if there is enough support behind the brand here in the USA to make it a viable choice for US racers. I'd love to see the Fondriest pics if you have them.


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## keppler (May 25, 2007)

master2129 said:


> I wish that Fondriest would come back to the USA in full force. Since Torpedo (SP?) bought them they have seemed to vanish from US soil. I do love Fondriest, but I question if there is enough support behind the brand here in the USA to make it a viable choice for US racers. I'd love to see the Fondriest pics if you have them.


Fondriest has been bought out by another Italian bike brand called Torpado;

http://forums.roadbikereview.com/showthread.php?t=55096

Interesting note; there's a new bike store that opened up a few months back and they carry Torpado and Wilier. I know the owner and next time I see him I'll ask if there's any interest in carrying Fondriest. I too like the Fondriest fames, and have read good things about their ride quality.


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## master2129 (Mar 30, 2007)

keppler said:


> Fondriest has been bought out by another Italian bike brand called Torpado;
> 
> http://forums.roadbikereview.com/showthread.php?t=55096
> 
> Interesting note; there's a new bike store that opened up a few months back and they carry Torpado and Wilier. I know the owner and next time I see him I'll ask if there's any interest in carrying Fondriest. I too like the Fondriest fames, and have read good things about their ride quality.


Fondriest bike ride really nice. Many of my friends raced them in the late 90's with good success. Very compliant and solid feel.


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## guerciottiman (Feb 25, 2005)

master2129 said:


> My friend went to Eurobike and came back with some amazing pictures and information packets from top frame manufacturers that we don't see to often here on US soil. For years I have been very interested in them and have been sitting on the fence as to when I would actually pull the trigger on a custom frame build purchase.
> 
> Two of the manufacturers in the pile of catalogs that caught my eye years ago are SOMEC and Guerciotti. Both of these Italian manufacturers have some very deep rooted building history in Steel Tubing. But both companies are now working their magic on full-carbon tubing. Both still claim to build everything by hand in Italy (which is very rare these days) and they offer custom measured frames to really fit the rider like hand and glove. I had a fit session at my LBS last month and I believe I have everything needed to place an actual order.
> 
> I have narrowed it down to the two full-carbon frameset models that I actually want to drop my hard earned coin on: 2008 DIVINO XLT or 2008 Geurciotti Khaybar (Diquigiovani Team Edition). But I am so torn between the two choices on the table. If any of you own earlier versions of these full-carbon models can you give me some feedback on the overall ride quality? The Guerciotti is currently being raced by a handful of European Teams (Diquigiovanni - being the most notable in the larger races in Europe) I know that I probably can't go wrong with either of these manufacturers given their solid reputation in Europe (Italy specifically), but the frames are pretty expensive and I just want to make sure I'm making the right decision. Any help or insight from you current SOMEC or Guerciotti owners would be appreciated. Thank you in advance for your help.


Any update on your decision? I currently ride an 04 Guerciotti Comete and LOVE the bike. It is Deda carbon with Alu lugs and rides wonderfully - stiff and not uncomfortable. It goes where you point it and descends with a lot of confidence. At the time I also considered the SOMEC offerings but I got a great deal on the Comete. I have recently thought about getting the Khaybar but it is hard to justify when I enjoy my Comete so much. As you say once you buy one of these Italian beauties you tend to keep them for a while.
You cannot go wrong with either of these frames - both these brands have heritage and build a quality product. SOMEC has an interesting connection to Ferrari (yes the cars). To my eyes I prefer the Khaybar only because I donot like the seat tube design on the SOMEC - it reminds me too much of the Specialized Tarmac of old.
Let us know what you have decided on and post some pics.


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## exracer (Jun 6, 2005)

Back in the 80's I raced a Guerciotti SL/SP mix and I don't ever recall it being anything close to what you would consider harsh riding. It was very snappy and quick steering. Unforunately it came to a premature end when some yakazz cut me off which destroyed the frame in the accident. Ever since then I always wanted another Guerciotti. Last December I finally got one. I wanted either a G35, Eureka or Khaybar but the shop in San Diego that I was dealing with didn't have one in my size but he did offer me a killer deal on a Cartesio frame so I took it. It's a beautiful frame. I have yet to build it up because; well (siiiiiiggghhhhhh) I'm married but I digress. I'm looking forward to building it as quickly as possible this year. 

Guerciotti or Somec, I don't think you'll go wrong with either one. I think it's kind of nice having something that you don't see every day.


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## Spezzoto (Dec 17, 2004)

*I hope it is not late for your decision*

I want to jump into this again. Master, I do not know if you made your decision already.
I was looking at a few pictures of Eurobike 2007 and found a few pictures about this frame in different bikes. This is what I try to promote when people are looking for bike. You have to reserch the frame production and the tubing used. This three frames are the same Dedacciai Rebel (ribelle) but in different colors and manufacturer. So look at warranty and price when you look at the same bike in three brands. That is why I buy from my friend. He buy the same frame from Dedacciai and sell it for a "G" less. THe SAB name is the "New ElBA" but the guerciotti I can not catch the name and it is not in their website.
I hope this help.


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## guerciottiman (Feb 25, 2005)

Spezzoto said:


> I want to jump into this again. Master, I do not know if you made your decision already.
> I was looking at a few pictures of Eurobike 2007 and found a few pictures about this frame in different bikes. This is what I try to promote when people are looking for bike. You have to reserch the frame production and the tubing used. This three frames are the same Dedacciai Rebel (ribelle) but in different colors and manufacturer. So look at warranty and price when you look at the same bike in three brands. That is why I buy from my friend. He buy the same frame from Dedacciai and sell it for a "G" less. THe SAB name is the "New ElBA" but the guerciotti I can not catch the name and it is not in their website.
> I hope this help.


Spezz, The frames you have shown are all different!! Note the differences in the shape of the seat tubes, the seat tube/top tube junction and the rear triangle. They are all very different shaped tubes. The geo of the rear triangle is also quite different in the SOMEC.
Look, I am sure the bikes your friend builds are all very good but there is more to a bike than just using the same tubeset.


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## Spezzoto (Dec 17, 2004)

*Are you kidding me.*



guerciottiman said:


> Spezz, The frames you have shown are all different!! Note the differences in the shape of the seat tubes, the seat tube/top tube junction and the rear triangle. They are all very different shaped tubes. The geo of the rear triangle is also quite different in the SOMEC.
> Look, I am sure the bikes your friend builds are all very good but there is more to a bike than just using the same tubeset.


Guerciotti.
Do you know what are you talking about?
Your vision is fooling you.
How much you want to bet?
All those frames are dedacciai Ribelle. But the SAB and Guerciotti are using standard fork while Somec is using deda new wave fork.
They also come standard geometry and slooping.

www.dedacciai.com

Guerciotti and SAB buy 80% of their frames from deda the other percent from Columbus.


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## guerciottiman (Feb 25, 2005)

Spezzoto said:


> Guerciotti.
> Do you know what are you talking about?
> Your vision is fooling you.
> How much you want to bet?
> ...


Maybe my vision is fooling me but the Rivelle frameset has a curved top tube and a straight downtube. Have a look at your own picture again and this link with a better picture of the frameset (http://www.cyclingnews.com/photos/2...ech/shows/eurobike07/eurobike0712/EB07-Deda5). This is quite the opposite to the bikes you have shown - surely you can see this too?


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## Spezzoto (Dec 17, 2004)

guerciottiman said:


> Maybe my vision is fooling me but the Rivelle frameset has a curved top tube and a straight downtube. Have a look at your own picture again and this link with a better picture of the frameset (http://www.cyclingnews.com/photos/2...ech/shows/eurobike07/eurobike0712/EB07-Deda5). This is quite the opposite to the bikes you have shown - surely you can see this too?


Have you touch a ribelle frame set with your own hands?

I did...


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## keppler (May 25, 2007)

I've looked at your Spezzoto bike pictures. The frames look nice and Italian. How are they built? Are they raced heavily in Italy? 

Most people don't want to spend money on an expensive frame without some assurance that it has a history of racing and is of sound quality that will last many race seasons.

How do the Spezzoto frames you own ride compared to other brands? If you have more pictures please pass them along.


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## Spezzoto (Dec 17, 2004)

Send me a Personal message with your email and I can show you dozens of pic even from the factory.


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## andylav (Oct 26, 2007)

Spezzoto

I too have sent you an email as I am very interested in any additional photos you may have of the Ribelle frame, particularly since the frame featured on Dedacciai's website does seem to be different than those pictured above (different top tube, down tube and head tube shapes/configurations)

Those above look like a Scuro frame with a horizontal top tube and an integrated seat post whereas the Ribelle on the Deda site is much more curved looking

Look forward to hearing from you

Andy


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## Spezzoto (Dec 17, 2004)

*Looks familiar?*

This frame is made of the same tubings and fork of the Guerciotti (Khaybar)
Dedacciai 108 front and Ice tail and Ice box rear triangle. deda black fin fork.
Just with a custom paint job...


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## master2129 (Mar 30, 2007)

Spezzoto said:


> This frame is made of the same tubings and fork of the Guerciotti (Khaybar)
> Dedacciai 108 front and Ice tail and Ice box rear triangle. deda black fin fork.
> Just with a custom paint job...


I like the Khaybar Diquigiovanni Paint Job much better. There's only so much the builders can change when using the same tubing from the predominant supplier in the region.


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## keppler (May 25, 2007)

Speaking of Italian frames, I don't see much on carbon MOSER frames. Mostly I read about older steel ones. They seem competitively priced, and I did see Fast Freddy with a stars and stripes painted one from previous years.

Anyone know more about the quality of these frames? Anyone own one of the newer carbon frames?


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## Spezzoto (Dec 17, 2004)

master2129 said:


> I like the Khaybar Diquigiovanni Paint Job much better. There's only so much the builders can change when using the same tubing from the predominant supplier in the region.



I think the guy that spend 3 days drawing his in a paper before passing it to the painter thinks different.

I know is good to have a nice looking color; But is better to design your own and ride it.


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## andylav (Oct 26, 2007)

I can now confirm, having seen two in the flesh today, that the Ribelle and the Rebel SL are two, completely different frames.

The Rebel SL is the frame featured in the three bikes pictured earlier in the thread - it comes with a teardrop shaped, integrated seat tube and a straight top tube, in either horizontal or gently sloping geometry, which can be custom built to customer's unique specifications.

The Ribelle has a curved toptube, different headtube arrangement (toptube and downtube are very close together on all dimensions of frames) and seems to come with either a standard seat post of 31.6mm diameter (the model I saw today) or with a round, integrated seat tube - as per the image on www.dedacciai.com under 'products - carbon - chassis'

Hope this helps to clarify things somewhat


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## Spezzoto (Dec 17, 2004)

andylav said:


> I can now confirm, having seen two in the flesh today, that the Ribelle and the Rebel SL are two, completely different frames.
> 
> The Rebel SL is the frame featured in the three bikes pictured earlier in the thread - it comes with a teardrop shaped, integrated seat tube and a straight top tube, in either horizontal or gently sloping geometry, which can be custom built to customer's unique specifications.
> 
> ...


Well said, It can not be explained better.
I was hopping for dedacciai to update their webpage and post both frames but that will wait. I was mostly refering at the Somec Divino from the discusion at the forum.
I hope that help people to make a better choice. 
Thanks Andylav.

Tell me where you saw the frames. Milan Bike show?


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## andylav (Oct 26, 2007)

Hi Spezzoto

No - not Milan (unfortunately), but in Condor Cycles in London (brochure available and website to be updated in 2-3 weeks time). I was in London on business and managed to get a quick detour in to Condor's to see the frames but didn't get to speak with anyone in any detail about them.

Looking closely at the two frames, it seems that the Rebel SL is a monocoque type construction (seamless joins like the Scuro, with a nicely overbuilt bottom bracket area) and a more high end product that the Ribelle, which has obvious joins at the bottom bracket area and seat tube area to allow for different options of rear stays to be fitted.

Both very nice, and it seems the Ribelle will be priced lower than the Scuro with the Rebel SL coming in at a higher level (Condor Cycles price is £1699 for frame and Black Wave forks)


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## Spezzoto (Dec 17, 2004)

andylav said:


> Hi Spezzoto
> 
> No - not Milan (unfortunately), but in Condor Cycles in London (brochure available and website to be updated in 2-3 weeks time). I was in London on business and managed to get a quick detour in to Condor's to see the frames but didn't get to speak with anyone in any detail about them.
> 
> ...


Andylav
Cool, the one I saw was the Ribelle SL but it was naked and no sticker. 
Do you know if the Ribelle SL comes with the big carbon flakes also like the Ribelle?


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## andylav (Oct 26, 2007)

Spezzoto

The Rebel SL that I saw had a 3k carbon weave - very small flake, visible through a cut-out section of the seat clamp assembly (the rest of the frame was painted but it was the same carbon finish as appears on the new Black Wave forks).

The Ribelle - I couldn't see any of the naked carbon finish to see if it was 12K, the same as the Ribelle on the Dedacciai website (perhaps the SL denotes the integrated seat post as it is definitely a Ribelle with integrated seat tube that was on show at Eurobike and Interbike, and on Dedacciai's website ?)


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## guerciottiman (Feb 25, 2005)

andylav said:


> I can now confirm, having seen two in the flesh today, that the Ribelle and the Rebel SL are two, completely different frames.
> 
> The Rebel SL is the frame featured in the three bikes pictured earlier in the thread - it comes with a teardrop shaped, integrated seat tube and a straight top tube, in either horizontal or gently sloping geometry, which can be custom built to customer's unique specifications.
> 
> ...


Andylav, I appreciate that you took the time to clarify. It's good that you have put some names to these different framesets. They are indeed beautiful deda tubes. 
It would have been a shame if this forum were left with the views of some self proclaimed expert who has apparently "touched the frames with their own hands".


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## Spezzoto (Dec 17, 2004)

andylav said:


> I can now confirm, having seen two in the flesh today, that the Ribelle and the Rebel SL are two, completely different frames.
> 
> The Rebel SL is the frame featured in the three bikes pictured earlier in the thread - it comes with a teardrop shaped, integrated seat tube and a straight top tube, in either horizontal or gently sloping geometry, which can be custom built to customer's unique specifications.
> 
> ...


Yes Andylav,
Thanks for certified that the three bikes on the pictures on my prior post are the same and not "all different"
Sorry I did not expecified that the 3 bikes are Ribelle "SL"and got the topic of the bikes a little bit detour. 
That is not me...

Now my next debate will be Ribelle SL or Ribelle
Do you like the Condor Diamante?


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## thefin (Jan 30, 2008)

All, mines (finally) a Colnago c40HP in team navigators paint (TM10), which is as tough as old boots, as planted as a rock & rides as sweet as a 'Dream' (or should i say a c40), spec'd up with Record and Bora's. Just looks so ....... right / italian, take your pick, both the same. However, i too am looking at acquiring a 2nd steed, taking the plunge into non-mainsteam italian stallians - the 2008 Geurciotti Khaybar (Diquigiovani Team Edition) is up there, looks sweet, custom size with a slightly sloping top tube.....
Any experience?


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## Wojo (Sep 15, 2004)

To master2129,

Did you settle on a frame? I've been following your thread eagerly because in many ways I feel the same way about these olde-world Italian framebuilders meeting 21st century materials... Too cool!!!

One question on the original post:
--- "In any case, I recently saw a new all-carbon Guerciotti in the flesh. I was kind of disappointed, as it seemed to be constructed from a generic set of tubes. That picture you have of the Somec, meantime, has a genuine custom look to it, at least when it comes to the main triangle." ---

Could this be due to the fact that the Guerciottti is a lugged carbon frame with the generic tube/lug "traditional look" versus the Somec monocoque "custom look?" My brother has owned three Colnago lugged carbon frames (C40, C50, Extreme Power) and has nothing but great things to say about them. Obviously the pro teams agree with the strengths of the lugged carbon frames (Rabbobank, Milram, others)

Anyway, just my two cents in reference to your "generic tubes" comment. The lugged frames will tend to have that look (at least more than the formed frames). I think these frames will tend to be stronger/stiffer, too.

Cheers


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## master2129 (Mar 30, 2007)

Wojo said:


> To master2129,
> 
> Did you settle on a frame? I've been following your thread eagerly because in many ways I feel the same way about these olde-world Italian framebuilders meeting 21st century materials... Too cool!!!
> 
> ...


Yes. I bought a SOMEC. But I got a Maestro Model because it was less expensive. Here's a pic of it built up.


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## kbfore (May 16, 2002)

*test?*

Did you test the two frames? Did you get them at a local shop or mail order?


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## master2129 (Mar 30, 2007)

kbfore said:


> Did you test the two frames? Did you get them at a local shop or mail order?


Yes. I did have a chance to test both frames out. Then I went and ordered the one I liked best, which in this case, was the Somec. :thumbsup:


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