# 10-Speed 12x27?



## saab2000 (Mar 16, 2004)

Did Campagnolo ever produce a 12x27 10-speed cassette? I could use one for a ride planned for 2012 and I cannot find them anywhere. 

Additionally, does the 29-tooth option require a long-cage derailleur? With a Compact? 

Yes, the ride in question involves some steep hills! I used a 29x25 last year and it wasn't nearly low enough. Compact crank is coming and I'm thinking a 34x27 would be killer for the ride. 

I know there are some real experts here and thought this would be a good place to get answers.


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## kbwh (May 28, 2010)

1) Not that I know.
2) No. All current derailleurs can handle a 29 with standard and compact cranks.
3) For ten speed 13-29 or 13-27 is your choice. If you want 12-29 or 12-27 you have to go to eleven.


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## rcharrette (Mar 27, 2007)

*For 10Spd*

For 10 Spd I'm pretty sure you need to go with the long (Medium) cage rear derailleur for anything over 27T and that has been my experience as well. I switched over to an 11-28 this summer with a Record 10spd (short cage) rear derailleur and the top pulley sat on the 28 cog when shifted to it. Switched over to the long cage ( I think Campy calls it medium) and it fixed it.
For 11spd it is correct they can all handle up to 29T.
I'm sure I'll be corrected if this is wrong


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## bikerjulio (Jan 19, 2010)

most every question about Campy stuff (except their wacky design logic in some cases), can be answered by looking at their tech documentation on the website - in this case the 10-speed sprockets instruction sheet:










The cage length is determined by maximum chain takeup needed - for short cage this is normally 30 teeth total maximum between the crankset & cassette.

Thus I made up a 12:26 (14) cassette recently to use with a 50:34 (16) compact crankset for a cycling vacation. The total takeup is 30T and my standard setup with a short cage RD worked fine. More than this and it's safer to use a medium cage.


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## flatlander_48 (Nov 16, 2005)

Going from memory, but I believe Centaur will have a 12-27 and a 12-30. I think it is scheduled for 2012, but I don't know exactly when. I have a copy at home of the brochure that Campagnolo had at the Taichung Bike Week at the end of last month. I will try to remember to have a look.


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## Drew Eckhardt (Nov 11, 2009)

flatlander_48 said:


> Going from memory, but I believe Centaur will have a 12-27 and a 12-30. I think it is scheduled for 2012, but I don't know exactly when. I have a copy at home of the brochure that Campagnolo had at the Taichung Bike Week at the end of last month. I will try to remember to have a look.



How about a 12-23? Now the only options are Veloce (galvanized) and NOS Record (titanium big cogs and at least $200)?


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## flatlander_48 (Nov 16, 2005)

Drew Eckhardt said:


> How about a 12-23? Now the only options are Veloce (galvanized) and NOS Record (titanium big cogs and at least $200)?


From what I remember, the new cassettes were only at the big end. I don't think there was a 12-23...


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## bikerjulio (Jan 19, 2010)

Drew Eckhardt said:


> How about a 12-23? Now the only options are Veloce (galvanized) and NOS Record (titanium big cogs and at least $200)?


Wrong. Nickel Chrome like any of the high end cogs.

There's nothing wrong with Veloce cogs except the low price.


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## FrenchNago (Jan 1, 2011)

*13-26 is a nice one too*

with your compact you could go 13-26......it really nice for the uber climbs like 34-26 (feels mtbikey)

i've mated it to a std crank with 50-39 and it works fine with a short cage 10s chorus.


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## Drew Eckhardt (Nov 11, 2009)

bikerjulio said:


> Wrong. Nickel Chrome like any of the high end cogs.


That's how it used to be but not any more.

10 speed Veloce cogs made in 2008 and before are nickel-chrome plated and did not include lock rings except with 11 starting cogs.

10 speed Veloce cogs made after that are galvanized like Mirage/Xenon and always include lock rings.

1) Note the 2009 Veloce 10 speed 12-23 and 13-26 in the included picture with a nickel-chrome Veloce 9 speed 13-23 cassette for reference in the middle.

2) Note the 2010 catalog entry

Centaur cassettes are still nickel chrome with the 2 largest on an aluminum carrier up to 2008 and from 2011 on except for the 14-23 which is all loose.

I've been running Campagnolo nickel-chrome plated cassettes since 1996. They last for a really long time. I don't know if the galvanized parts are going to be the same (but be kinda blue) or if I'd only be getting a couple chains out of each one.


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## flatlander_48 (Nov 16, 2005)

flatlander_48 said:


> Going from memory, but I believe Centaur will have a 12-27 and a 12-30. I think it is scheduled for 2012, but I don't know exactly when. I have a copy at home of the brochure that Campagnolo had at the Taichung Bike Week at the end of last month. I will try to remember to have a look.


I checked the material from the Taichung Bike Week and it is only the 12-27 and 12-30 for the new products.


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## bikerjulio (Jan 19, 2010)

Drew Eckhardt said:


> That's how it used to be but not any more.
> 
> 10 speed Veloce cogs made in 2008 and before are nickel-chrome plated and did not include lock rings except with 11 starting cogs.
> 
> ...


You are right. I was looking at the big retailers who are still saying NiCr. Now i'm not sure if either they are selling old stock or new. so lock ring is bad? I may stock up. galvanizing (ie zinc) does not sound as good as NiCr, does it?

But in my defense, I present this:


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## flatlander_48 (Nov 16, 2005)

Usually galvanized surfaces are not wear surfaces. It's mostly for corrosion protection. Chrome plating is better for both.


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## Drew Eckhardt (Nov 11, 2009)

bikerjulio said:


> You are right. I was looking at the big retailers who are still saying NiCr. Now i'm not sure if either they are selling old stock or new.


If you run into some one that actually has nickel-chrome plated Veloce 12-23 cassettes please let us know. I'd love to snag 1 or 2 without paying $105-$120 a pop (Cambria still lists a Centaur 12-23 for that price which implies 2009-2010 model years before the return to having steel big cogs on a carrier and no 12-23 option) at which point they're no longer less expensive than 11 speed parts.



> so lock ring is bad?


For Veloce cassettes which don't start with an 11.



> But in my defense, I present this:


Yup, the text hasn't been updated. I e-mailed and was told that they're current production cassettes. 

AFAIK the only NOS Campagnolo 10 cassettes they have are Mirage in one size (galvanized), Record in most sizes (titanium big cogs and $200 a pop), and 2010 14-23 Centaur which are identical to current parts.


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## bikerjulio (Jan 19, 2010)

Drew Eckhardt said:


> If you run into some one that actually has nickel-chrome plated Veloce 12-23 cassettes please let us know.


I bought 3 12-23 cassettes last year. i'm going to have to look at them carefully now to see what i've got. now i did. they are a shinier different colour, and have lockrings. i would not expect galvanized to be shinier than chrome, but it is.


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## hroch (Jul 9, 2008)

I know it's a sacrilege, but BBB makes C10 compatible 12-27 (and other weird ones). No personal experience though.
BCS-10C - Cassettes - BBB


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## FrenchNago (Jan 1, 2011)

*original centaur*

centaur 10 s cassettes 2011 models go for ~48€ here in France they have a better finish that veloce.........and you get all sizes in original gear


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## onrhodes (Feb 19, 2004)

Miche makes a 12-27 that is 10 speed campy and splined for campy hubs. I rode it for the 2011 D2R2 and it performs flawlessly. $60 @ bikeman.com. You can also go nuts and get the Wheels Mfg Accelerator cassette which is just a reworked Ultegra or Dura-Ace cassette to work with campy 10 speed. Costs is twice as much as the Miche though.


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## saab2000 (Mar 16, 2004)

Here's another for you Campagnolo nutjobs  (of which I am also one)...

I have a Record setup with the final generation of 10-speed rear derailleur. It is not a long-cage. I don't know how many cage lengths there were, but it is clearly not a long one. I think they made long and short/medium cages. 

Would this work with a 13x29? Or would I be running the upper pulley on the cog basically? With chain slack when riding the 39 and any of the shorter cogs? 

Enquiring minds need to know!! 

I have two major climbing trips in 2012 and I am hoping to get by without having to fork over for a compact crank. It is possible that the 13x26 will work for one of them, but it won't work for the second one. For that I'll need a 29, or a compact and an 11x25. 

Hoping to get by with just getting a new cassette.


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## bikerjulio (Jan 19, 2010)

saab2000 said:


> Here's another for you Campagnolo nutjobs  (of which I am also one)...
> 
> I have a Record setup with the final generation of 10-speed rear derailleur. It is not a long-cage. I don't know how many cage lengths there were, but it is clearly not a long one. I think they made long and short/medium cages.
> 
> ...


Yes it will work.

There are several things to consider.

The RD cage length is related to total chain takeup which is related to the difference in tooth count - front plus rear, with 30 being the max for a short cage.

So with 29-13=16 and 53-39=14 there is a total of 30 teeth max takeup, so OK so far.

The other thing is chain length. You need to check that the big-big combo is still OK - otherwise a longer chain is needed (may be anyway on a new cassette).


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