# Degreaser on chain. NEVER AGAIN.



## MIN in PDX (Nov 29, 2007)

I used one of those self contained chain scrubbers with the specified amount of degreaser, which was supplied. At first I was pleased with how clean the chain was but I realized it was only cosmetic. 

Now my chain has stiff links and sounds crusty despite being visually clean. I applied dry lube several times (what I normally use) and wiped off the excess, per my normal routine, and I still can't get that "new chain" smoothness. 

What's a OCD bike nerd to do?


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## SilasCL (Jun 14, 2004)

Use prolink. Dry lube is not going to get the job done. Apply link by link, then wipe off the excess.


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## Bocephus Jones II (Oct 7, 2004)

SilasCL said:


> Use prolink. Dry lube is not going to get the job done. Apply link by link, then wipe off the excess.


+1...I never clean my chain anymore...just use prolink and wipe with a rag after each ride. It doesn't look that clean, but it makes the chains last.


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## MIN in PDX (Nov 29, 2007)

I will certainly give that a shot. I bought the scrubber do-hickey out of curiosity even though I've gone 10 years without using one or applying degreaser to a single chain link. I am convinced that degreaser does more harm than good on a chain by displacing beneficial lube from hidden areas.


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## C-40 (Feb 4, 2004)

*not true..*

You don't mention what type of degreaser, but those chain cleaner devices are crap anyway. Unless you clean the chain several times with new degreaser, it's swimming in dirt when you're done. If you use mineral spirits, the chain will come clean and work properly afterward. Dry lubes are rarely the best choice, except perhaps in very dusty conditions and even then relubing after every ride is probably a must. 

In the very worst conditions, I may brush on mineral spirits, then apply my normal home brew lube, ot give the chain a good shot of WD-40 (don't laugh, it's got as much oil as prolink or homebrew).

When I clean a chain, I use an water bottle filled at least half full of mineral spirits. Drop the chain in and chake it for a minute or so. Pour off the mineral spirits into another container where the dirt can settel out for future use. I then use a bottle of hot water and dish washing soap to clean the chain further and finish up with a hot water rinse. After that, apply home brew or WD-40 to displace the water and lube. Works great.


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## MIN in PDX (Nov 29, 2007)

C-40: but WD-40 is a solvent and and not lube. I can't reconcile what you just said to conventional wisdom on it's application.


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## bopApocalypse (Aug 30, 2006)

MIN in PDX said:


> What's a OCD bike nerd to do?


remove chain, chainrings, cassette.
place in mineral spirits.
scrub, wipe, whaveter. work the chain good to make sure it's actually clean inside.
dry/let solvent evaporate.
reassemble.
lube.

I do this once or twice per season with each bike. lube w/ homebrew in between.


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## C-40 (Feb 4, 2004)

*wrong again...*



MIN in PDX said:


> C-40: but WD-40 is a solvent and and not lube. I can't reconcile what you just said to conventional wisdom on it's application.


WD-40 is 15-20% oil, just like my homebrew (4 parts MS, 1 part oil). Some of you guys read BS posted by the uneducated and then believe it. A little research at the WD-40 website will prove this correct. I've cleaned my chains lots of times and used WD-40 as the final product to remove water AND lubricate the chain. It's not a lube to last 2-300 miles, but neither is a 4/1 homebrew mix. Either one works to displace water an lubricate.


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## MIN in PDX (Nov 29, 2007)

OK, perhaps I was overzealous in my title of this thread. 

Even Sheldon Brown says I should use a solvent/degreaser:



the late SB said:


> The traditional way to clean a bicycle chain is to remove it from the bike, then soak and scrub it in solvent. This is a problem with newer chains, however. Improved sprocket design, such as Shimano's "Hyperglide" system have made it possible to shift under full power, which is very stressful to chains. (Older derailer systems with plain sprockets required the rider to ease up on the pedals while shifting.)
> 
> To withstand these high stresses, modern chains have rivets that are tighter fitting into the chain plates. The new rivets are difficult to remove and reinstall without damaging either the rivet or the side plate.
> If you wish to make a habit of cleaning your chain off-the-bike, the best approach is to buy an aftermarket master link, such as the Craig Super Link or SRAM PowerLink . These permit removal and re-installation of the chain without tools. The PowerLink is standard equipment supplied with SRAM chains, but it also works on other chains of the same width.
> ...


If I used a chain scrubber and it still results in stiff links and gritty action, then I suspect that 

(1) I didn't fully clean the chain
(2) I have a lubrication problem.


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## MIN in PDX (Nov 29, 2007)

C-40 said:


> WD-40 is 15-20% oil, just like my homebrew (4 parts MS, 1 part oil). Some of you guys read BS posted by the uneducated and then believe it. A little research at the WD-40 website will prove this correct. I've cleaned my chains lots of times and used WD-40 as the final product to remove water AND lubricate the chain. It's not a lube to last 2-300 miles, but neither is a 4/1 homebrew mix. Either one works to displace water an lubricate.


Just as snarky as Jobst Brandst! :thumbsup: 

I shy away from using WD-40 as a final product because it attracts dirt more than other "lubes."


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## Bocephus Jones II (Oct 7, 2004)

C-40 said:


> WD-40 is 15-20% oil, just like my homebrew (4 parts MS, 1 part oil). Some of you guys read BS posted by the uneducated and then believe it. A little research at the WD-40 website will prove this correct. I've cleaned my chains lots of times and used WD-40 as the final product to remove water AND lubricate the chain. It's not a lube to last 2-300 miles, but neither is a 4/1 homebrew mix. Either one works to displace water an lubricate.


Yup...biggest problem with WD40 is it doesn't last. Prolink lasts forever before reapplys.


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## danl1 (Jul 23, 2005)

C-40 said:


> WD-40 is 15-20% oil


Better even as that. The as-delivered liquid is 30-35% oil. The 15-20% figures include the aerosol propellant. 

It is funny how folks smack down WD-40 because it's 'not a lubricant', yet it contains considerably more lubricant than Prolink or most homebrews. 

The reason it appears to attract more dirt is precisely because of the higher amount of oil. A lot of folks also commit the error of spraying it on then going for a ride, then complaining about it's functionality. If they used it post-ride and gave the aliphatics a chance to evaporate before heading out, they'd be much happier. 

It's not an ideal formulation, but it's not terrible and better than many dedicated products. The Stoddard solvent that is a small part of the formulation helps clean things that the mineral spirits (the main solvent) can't. Add a bit more solvent (mineral spirits or similar) and it would run much cleaner and be great. 

http://wd40.com/Brands/pdfs/msds-wd40_bulk.us.pdf


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## Pablo (Jul 7, 2004)

I lube with Prolink and wipe away exceess. At times, when the grease builds up, I wipe off the chain with mineral spirits, but only a little to get the chunks off.


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## Dinosaur (Jan 29, 2004)

Another convert to WD-40. I use it after each ride. Works better than home brew.


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## benchpress265 (Nov 7, 2006)

I would never use WD40 on a chain, the term oil is generic, use a product that has been specifically designed and tested for chain use, you need an "oil" that can penetrate to were the lub is required. WD40 is not indended or engineered for bike chain use. All you so called lubrication experts out there do not know what you are talking about and have littlle knowledge of lubrication oils or what they are meant for. I hear this stuff all the time on this forum about home brews and other cheap over so called counter oils and recommending stuff that is not designed for the use intended. If these experts know so much they should be wealthy by now from all the consulting services that they provide.


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## Jesse D Smith (Jun 11, 2005)

*+1*



C-40 said:


> WD-40 is 15-20% oil, just like my homebrew (4 parts MS, 1 part oil). Some of you guys read BS posted by the uneducated and then believe it. A little research at the WD-40 website will prove this correct. I've cleaned my chains lots of times and used WD-40 as the final product to remove water AND lubricate the chain. It's not a lube to last 2-300 miles, but neither is a 4/1 homebrew mix. Either one works to displace water an lubricate.


I've heard this before and dismissed it. Then I went ahead and tried it. Why not. It's not going to blow up a $25 dollar chain. You were right. 
I use WD-40 on my winter bike. The spraycan helps blast off the crit, salt, and dissipates the melted snow and slush. With the conditions in Maine, I have to do this about once a week, or 50 miles worth of commuting. I might give the chain an actual off-the-bike cleaning a couple times in the winter and as needed during the rest of the year.


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## dekindy (Jul 7, 2006)

I use Dumonde Tech and follow their instructions and only put soap and water in my Park chain cleaner. It washes the dirt and grime away but leaves the lubricant to build up a protective coating on the chain. If you use degreaser you are starting from scratch every time and removing lubricant in the links that does not get replaced when you apply fresh lubricant. At least that is Dumonde Tech's story. Since I have been following their instructions to the letter my chains are lasting much longer and I am getting great cassette life. Dumonde Tech is not as popular as some of the other lubricants but it gets good reviews in the review section.


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## C-40 (Feb 4, 2004)

*more baloney...*

As a mechanical enginneer with 27 years of experience, I'm totally confident that homebrew and WD-40 work well as chain lubricants. They both work well because they have plenty of solvent in them to insure the the lubricant penetrates. You won't find a much better lube than the synthetic motor oil in my homebrew.

I first tried Prolink 8 years ago. A factory rep called me a few weeks after I bought three bottles (by direct order from the manufacturer) to see how I liked it. He readily admitted that it contained mineral spirits as the solvent. I told him it worked OK, but not if only a drop or two was applied infrequently (200-300 miles), as directed. That resulted in a squeaking chain. After learning that Prolink was mostly solvent, I started making my own home brew.

The reason I know that homebrew works is Campy chains that last for 6,000 miles with very little elongation. I can even get up to 4,000 from a Shimano 10 chain, if I push it to an accurately measured .5% elongation.


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## Bixe (Jan 28, 2004)

*....*

The idea of aerosol lubricants is to apply and let stand before using the equipment. The solvent thins the oil and allows it to penetrate into the inner workings, then the solvent evaporates leaving the oil behind. If it's applied immediately before the ride, then all the dirt and grit is carried into the chain.
<o></o>
Whatever the lubricant you might prefer, you are better served cleaning up the chain and gears, and then apply your home lube/WD40/Penetrating oil some while before the bike's next ride. Before you roll off, wipe down the chain to remove any excess. For example, the oil on the outside plates does nothing more than provide a place for the grit to reside.
<o></o>
I go through this practice every couple rides depending on how long the rides might be and how much crap I ride through.

As any of these lube recipes are only marginally different, it is the application technique that makes the most significant difference in chain life.


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## danl1 (Jul 23, 2005)

benchpress265 said:


> ...you so called lubrication experts...


The word is "Tribologists", and that you don't know that would suggest that however much you imagine we don't know, you know less. On the other hand, you show great study of the back labels of the stuff you pay so dearly for at the bike shop.

Tell me, what exactly is the difference between the oil in Prolink, and that in WD-40? I'm not suggesting that they are the same, but rather that you don't know what those differences are or what they mean to the functioning of a bike chain. Absent that knowledge, your comment is at least as stupid as you imagine ours to be.

You also WAY overestimate the 'engineering' that goes into bicycle lubrication. It's a process of formulary, that while not necessarily simple, isn't as complex as they would have you believe. Bike chains aren't horribly complicated, and there's not enough margin or volume to support massive R&D in any case. No disrespect to the makers, but they slop some lube and solvent together, toss in a little something for the 'secret sauce' effect, put it in little bottles, call it magic, and get the hordes to believe it. I'll guarantee the formulation has more to do with raw materials costs than the results of years of engineering and R&D. 

It's far closer to snake oil than tribology. But like any other religion, if you sleep better knowing your chain is protected by their magic, all the better for you.


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## ChuckUni (Jan 2, 2003)

Is it bad to admit that I've left the prolink/homebrew world for Boesheild? Seems to work better for me and it has similar application/cleaning process. Best to let it dry before riding.

I started using it on the mtb to great effect, but find it lasts longer, is cleaner, and is quieter on the road too. Available in big can for semi-reasonable price too....


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## cxwrench (Nov 9, 2004)

damn...people really get hot about the lube thing. it's true...bike chains are pretty simple and don't really need this much thought. as long as they're not wet and dripping w/ lube when you ride, you're better off. lubes w/ solvent dry off more and don't attract as much grit. my chains get cleaned a lot, and never look dirty. they never make noise. i don't run them too long (1200mi or so), so i have cassettes that last a long time. i clean 'em w/ different things, depends on where i am and what i have. simple green, diesel, min. spirits...whatever.as long as you don't let them get too dirty, they come clean pretty easily. i wipe off as much lube as i can after i apply it, and they stay really clean. i usually use dumonde tech, either the reg or the lite...both work great. since i'm usually working on race bikes i apply it every day since they get cleaned every day, otherwise you can use their advice and apply when the chain starts getting noisy again. i'm sure that homebrews work pretty well, they're not that different from what comes out of a bottle, they just cost less. the only thing i really feel strongly about is white lightning...that stuff truly sucks!


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## allenpg (Sep 13, 2006)

I use SRAM and Wipperman chains that are easy to remove. Soak in degreaser from Costco for 15-30 minutes, then thoroughly rinse with water and dry. Reinstall and add T9 Boeshield link-by-link. Works great for several hundred miles in dry conditions. I'm also going to give Prolink a go after hearing good things about it.

Another OCD home mechanic.


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## ghostzapper2007 (May 22, 2007)

danl1 said:


> The word is "Tribologists", and that you don't know that would suggest that however much you imagine we don't know, you know less. On the other hand, you show great study of the back labels of the stuff you pay so dearly for at the bike shop.
> 
> Tell me, what exactly is the difference between the oil in Prolink, and that in WD-40? I'm not suggesting that they are the same, but rather that you don't know what those differences are or what they mean to the functioning of a bike chain. Absent that knowledge, your comment is at least as stupid as you imagine ours to be.
> 
> ...


Agreed. Most of these so called bike specific hugely priced NAME lubes are little more than some lube and solvent mixed together and put in a pretty package. And the makers of these products are laughinig all the way to the bank. Use mineral spirits and a pure synthetic oil as lubricant like Mobile One mixed in a 4:1 ratio and you are set to go. No need to pay some silly price for a 4 ounce bottel of fairy dust oil which is nothing more than some lube and solvent mixed and put in a pretty package. Let the solvent dry before riding


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## fabsroman (Jul 14, 2006)

I just bought an ultrasonic cleaner, and it is one of the best things I have bought in my life, along with my Colnagos and my Tassimo cappucino/coffee machine.

I used pro-link and home brew most of last year with pretty good success. What do you guys think about soaking a chain in a Tupperware container of home brew after it comes out of the ultrasonic cleaner? I'd soak it for a day or two, take it out, and wipe it down before putting it back on the bike.

Whoever hates White Lightning, I second that hatred. I ended up throwing my bottle of that stuff away, along with a couple of other "miracle" chain lubricants wherein the marketing got the better of me.


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## rollin nolan (Jun 22, 2007)

At first I thought Boesheild was a weird name until I read on the back of my bottle that it is a licensed product of Boeing Commercial Airplanes. If it is good enough to lube a 787 it's good enough for my chain.


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## DIRT BOY (Aug 22, 2002)

benchpress265 said:


> I would never use WD40 on a chain, the term oil is generic, use a product that has been specifically designed and tested for chain use, you need an "oil" that can penetrate to were the lub is required. WD40 is not indended or engineered for bike chain use. All you so called lubrication experts out there do not know what you are talking about and have littlle knowledge of lubrication oils or what they are meant for. I hear this stuff all the time on this forum about home brews and other cheap over so called counter oils and recommending stuff that is not designed for the use intended. If these experts know so much they should be wealthy by now from all the consulting services that they provide.


Oh yeah genius? I guess REAL WORLD fresults don't matter just marketing from companies. Like Rock n Roll Lube. Biggest piece ofc rap I have ever tried. Homebrew, Prolink and Boesheild IMO are the best and have been proven.


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## Touch0Gray (May 29, 2003)

fabsroman said:


> I just bought an ultrasonic cleaner, and it is one of the best things I have bought in my life, along with my Colnagos and my Tassimo cappucino/coffee machine.
> 
> I used pro-link and home brew most of last year with pretty good success. What do you guys think about soaking a chain in a Tupperware container of home brew after it comes out of the ultrasonic cleaner? I'd soak it for a day or two, take it out, and wipe it down before putting it back on the bike.
> 
> Whoever hates White Lightning, I second that hatred. I ended up throwing my bottle of that stuff away, along with a couple of other "miracle" chain lubricants wherein the marketing got the better of me.


So you got one and like it, cool...

I don't think there is any need to soak the chain in home lube for a couple of days, a couple of minutes should suffice. OR, float the container with the lube and chain in the sonic for a couple of seconds....the action should effectively distribute the lube into all the hard to reach parts and drive the air bubbles out...

Believe it of not I haven't worn a chain out due to elongation EVER (with up to 10,000 miles on a chain once, not recommended because when I did replace it, I had to get a new cassette too), they develop lateral play in the side plates long before they elongate. THAT sure creates shifting problems.

edit: hey you know you could use the espresso/cappuccino machine to steam dry/clean the chain too you know...lol


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## C-40 (Feb 4, 2004)

*no soaking...*

The only thing that soaking is likely to do is contaminate some good home brew. I hold my chain vertically, folded in half, start dribbling the lube at the top and let it run down. The drippage could be caught for reuse, but I usually do this over my plastic bag lined shop trash can, usually containing a lot of old paper towels. The chain still needs to be wiped off then either installed or hung while the solvent evaporates.


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## Bocephus Jones II (Oct 7, 2004)

C-40 said:


> The reason I know that homebrew works is Campy chains that last for 6,000 miles with very little elongation. I can even get up to 4,000 from a Shimano 10 chain, if I push it to an accurately measured .5% elongation.


Yup...I get about 5k usually. Then I replace just to be safe. Cassettes are too expensive.


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## Hi-po SS 454 (Jan 30, 2008)

MIN in PDX said:


> I used one of those self contained chain scrubbers with the specified amount of degreaser, which was supplied. At first I was pleased with how clean the chain was but I realized it was only cosmetic.
> 
> Now my chain has stiff links and sounds crusty despite being visually clean. I applied dry lube several times (what I normally use) and wiped off the excess, per my normal routine, and I still can't get that "new chain" smoothness.
> 
> What's a OCD bike nerd to do?



I use your process with excellent results. I keep cleaning and than rinsing the dirty Degreaser with clean, till the degreaser is not dirty any more. When the chain is finally clean and dry, I use White lightning lube. It works for me and this is how I have always done it. Everyone has there own way, this is mine, and it works for me. :thumbsup:


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## Creakyknees (Sep 21, 2003)

And you people call yourselves cyclists. Tsk. There's only ONE right way to clean a chain.

http://www.sheldonbrown.com/chainclean.html


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## Bocephus Jones II (Oct 7, 2004)

Creakyknees said:


> And you people call yourselves cyclists. Tsk. There's only ONE right way to clean a chain.
> 
> http://www.sheldonbrown.com/chainclean.html


NO!!!!!!!!!!!!!! There is only one way!!!!! The way I do it!!!! Your WRONG!!!!!!!

(kidding)


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## pianopiano (Jun 4, 2005)

*Omg!*



Creakyknees said:


> And you people call yourselves cyclists. Tsk. There's only ONE right way to clean a chain.
> 
> http://www.sheldonbrown.com/chainclean.html


Yes!!! That was one of the funniest things that I have ever read! I am crying as I type this, and my sides hurt. Bless you for posting this, Creakyknees.

MD
p.s. I have just began to dissasemble my chain, link by link. I should be all done by April 1.


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## MerlinAma (Oct 11, 2005)

fabsroman said:


> I just bought an ultrasonic cleaner, and it is one of the best things I have bought in my life, ....


Exactly what brand/model did you buy?


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## fabsroman (Jul 14, 2006)

I ended up getting a Crest Ultrasonic model 275. It is a 3/4 gallon ultrasonic and it came with a wire mesh basket that holds the chain and cassette in it quite well. The moment I turned the thing on, I could see black stuff flying off the chain and then the liquid was too black to see much of anything. At first, I ran it for 2 minutes with no heat and the chain didn't look too much better. Then, I ran it for 10 minutes at 70 degrees celsius, took the chain out and wiped it down with a shop towel, and the chain looks virtually brand new with just some wear marks on it. This was the chain I used for racing all of last season, with not a lot of cleaning done to it. Then, I put the cassette into the cleaner and ran that for 10 minutes, which was probably too long. Again, I took it out, wiped it down, and except for the wear marks, it looks brand new. The shop towels had barely any black residue on them from the wipe downs. I am actually amazed. My chains and cassettes might get cleaned a lot more often now.

I wish I had this thing 10 years ago, or at least that I had bought it last year. I'm already debating whether or not to buy a larger one, but I think that will have to wait because my wife might kick me, and I have some reservations about having one that takes 2+ gallons of fluid. The 3/4 gallon tank makes it easy to store a gallon of fluid and it doesn't take very long to fill the cleaner up. Another feature that I really like is the drain. When I was finished, I put the drain nozzle into the gallon container, opened the drain, and all the fluid drained right out, leaving just a little at the bottom along with all the crud. A quick wipe with a shop towel and everything is clean.

Okay, after reading the replies about soaking the chain, I'll refrain from doing so and just continue putting home brew on it while rotating it on the bike and letting it sit over night thereafter.

I feel like a kid at Christmas with this new tool.


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## fabsroman (Jul 14, 2006)

The Crest Ultrasonic model 275HT. I didn't spend the extra money for the digital one, but I got the one with heat just in case I need the heat to clean something. It is a 3/4 gallon ultrasonic and so far I really like it. See my post above in reply to TouchOGray's post for a little explanation about it.

By the way, TouchOGray was a great help behind the scenes (i.e., PM's) in helping me decide whether or not to get one and what to look for in one.


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## fabsroman (Jul 14, 2006)

I actually read that article when I was looking for a better way to clean my chain, and by better, I mean quicker and with less mess. I almost cried when I started reading that article. First off, it wouldn't apply to a Campy ultra narrow chain because if you take any pin out besides the connecting pin, you are SOL on ever getting that chain to work again. However, to clean a chain according to that article, one would spend more time cleaning the chain than riding the bike. Your hobby would be chain cleaning, with bike riding just beaing a means to the end (i.e., chain cleaning).


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## danl1 (Jul 23, 2005)

C-40 said:


> ...but I usually do this over my plastic bag lined shop trash can, usually containing a lot of old paper towels...


You'd get a shop steward very, very pissy with that sort of behaviour.

Just sayin, that's kinda not a great idea, spontaneous combustion of shop rags being what it is. Obviously you've gotten away with it thus far and perhaps you have additional precautions, but where I come from, oil and solvent soaked rags go in an airtight fire-safe receptacle.


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## benchpress265 (Nov 7, 2006)

As an engineer you should know better then give out advice as though you were an expert on lubrication. 

Lubricants are designed for specific applications. WD 40 is just a cheap all purpose lubricant that is sold to the general public.

If you are throwing out credentials, here are mine. 3 years mechanical design engineer BFG, 2 years Tire building Department area engineer (BFG). 26 years Plant and Manfacturing Engineer LNP Engineering Plastics/GE Plastics. Last 3 years Manufacturing Engineer Infinity Compounding (part owner in the company).

I have specified lubrication for a lot of equipment in my time, sorry to say WD 40 was never on the list.

So eat that baloney........

You are giving out bad advice!


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## rogerstg (Aug 1, 2007)

C-40 said:


> The only thing that soaking is likely to do is contaminate some good home brew. I hold my chain vertically, folded in half, start dribbling the lube at the top and let it run down. The drippage could be caught for reuse, but I usually do this over my plastic bag lined shop trash can, usually containing a lot of old paper towels. The chain still needs to be wiped off then either installed or hung while the solvent evaporates.


I soak the chain using very little lube by folding it into a quart ziplock - it folds flat - then add some lube to the bag and squeeze out the air. Neat with very little waste. It's the same technique I use to marinate food.

Mostly I'm too lazy to spend much time cleaning chains, but do strip the grease off of new chains then lube.


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## ChuckUni (Jan 2, 2003)

fabsroman said:


> I actually read that article when I was looking for a better way to clean my chain, and by better, I mean quicker and with less mess. I almost cried when I started reading that article. First off, it wouldn't apply to a Campy ultra narrow chain because if you take any pin out besides the connecting pin, you are SOL on ever getting that chain to work again. However, to clean a chain according to that article, one would spend more time cleaning the chain than riding the bike. Your hobby would be chain cleaning, with bike riding just beaing a means to the end (i.e., chain cleaning).



Leave it to the man with the ultrasonic parts cleaner (analog, not digital) to take the Sheldon joke seriously....


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## MerlinAma (Oct 11, 2005)

benchpress265 said:


> As an engineer you should know better then give out advice as though you were an expert on lubrication....


Have either of you stayed at a Holiday Inn Express?


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## benchpress265 (Nov 7, 2006)

More uses for WD40 God it does everything how did I miss this in my carreer:mad2: 
http://www.lifehack.org/articles/lifehack/wd-40-top-10-tips.html


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## fabsroman (Jul 14, 2006)

Dan,

Are you talking about an actual shop, like a business, or are you referring to the home mechanic? I have put solvent soaked shop towels in the trash on occassion, and now you have me worried that I might be looking at burning down the house. How much should I worry about this in my garage with a rag or two here and there. When I refer to rag, I am referring to the blue shop towels that come on a roll like Bounty paper towels.

If this is something I should worry about, what type of air tight container should I purchase to eliminate the worry? Trash pickup is every Monday, Wednesday, and Saturday, so would I be better off just putting them out in the trash whenever I have them?


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## ghostzapper2007 (May 22, 2007)

benchpress265 said:


> WD 40 is just a cheap all purpose lubricant that is sold to the general public.


Correct. WD-40 is cheap, which is why so many guys use it. 2nd, this is a bike chain, not a Nascar engine which you are attempting to lubricate, you don't need some super special Defense Department declassified lubricant for this application. 3rd, WD-40 is sold to the General Public, just the same as all the so-called "miracle" bike lubes are also sold to the General Public. So I'm not sure what your point is there unless you are personally buying some majic CIA bike lube available only to you and government defense contractors? 4th, just because the marketing spin on so many of these so-called "miracle" bike specific lubes claim they do something that a "general purpose" lube can't does NOT mean they actually do anything different. In fact, most of these so-called miracle bike lubes are nothing more than some general purpose lubricant mixed with a basic solvent and then packaged and marketed in a nice shiny package as if they bring some huge NASA like R&D technology to the bike chain cleaning game. But you can go ahead and keep paying through the nose if it makes you believe that that overpriced 4 ounce bottle had millions of dollars of special hidden R&D behind it creating a majic lube that can go where no other lube can on a bike chain.


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## fabsroman (Jul 14, 2006)

I didn't read the entire article when I read it, but I knew for sure that that wasn't the way to clean a chain. Trust me, thinking about the article brings a smile to my face, but I wasn't smiling too much while I was reading it in my search for a better way to keep my drivetrain clean and lubed. LOL Maybe that is the attorney/CPA in me. Sometimes, I can be too serious.


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## C-40 (Feb 4, 2004)

*no problem...*



danl1 said:


> You'd get a shop steward very, very pissy with that sort of behaviour.
> 
> Just sayin, that's kinda not a great idea, spontaneous combustion of shop rags being what it is. Obviously you've gotten away with it thus far and perhaps you have additional precautions, but where I come from, oil and solvent soaked rags go in an airtight fire-safe receptacle.


I know exactly what you're talking about, as I have had expereince with this myself. Twice, I applied Behr deck stain to my decks and wiped up the excess with white paper shop towels that come in a box. A few hours after the rags are tossed in a trash can, I come back and the towels are smoldering, but no flames had erupted. The next time, I put the towels in a 5-gallon metal can and doused them with water. 

I've been using the blue paper shop towels with homebrew and WD-40 for years and never has this type of problem, but I usually on use one or two at a time a let them sit in a small open container for a day or two to let them dry, before tossing them in the trash. A closed metal can is the best place for them. At some point you have to get rid of them. Perhaps taking the lid off and letting the contents dry out for a few days would be wise. Otherwise the solvent soaked towels go into the trash truck.


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## C-40 (Feb 4, 2004)

*proof...*



benchpress265 said:


> As an engineer you should know better then give out advice as though you were an expert on lubrication.
> 
> Lubricants are designed for specific applications. WD 40 is just a cheap all purpose lubricant that is sold to the general public.
> 
> ...


The proof is in the results. I mostly use WD-40 as quick spray cleaner when I'm too lazy to take the chain off for a cleaning, but the oil in it will work fine for a ride or two. I was going to do a full year test of WD-40, just to prove the naysayers wrong, but I found that it's really hard to apply small amounts with the spray can, so it's wasteful and more expensive than homebrew. I guess I should buy a quart or gallon to put into my drip applicator to prove that it works as a regular lube. 

My normal lube is 4/1 homebrew. I've not found anyone getting longer chain life from the use of any chain-specific lube. I've tried several that didn't work well at all, but they sure were expensive. My firm belief is that the major cause of chain wear is grit from the road. Even the most expensive lube just turns into a grinding paste after a couple of rides. For that reason, I now apply my homebrew lube after nearly every ride of 40 miles or more.

I've actually done some chain wear testing and proven how Campy chains have much more wear resistant pins than other brands, to they don't elongate nearly as fast. I also found that despite the lower elongation, the rollers still wear at a much more rapid rate, up to 20 times more, so you can't rely on elongation to determine when to change a Campy chain, like you can most other brands.

I've had discussions with a GM lubrication engineer who sells a chain lube product called ATB (absolutely the best). The stuff has a quick drying solvent and a lubricant with a lot of extreme pressure (EP) additives. His product costs about $1 per ounce to make and it sells for twice that, or $8 for a four ounce bottle. I asked him about homebrew and he admits that the concept is sound, but he'd put in more EP additives than synthetic motor oil provides. I'm going to stick with homebrew that only costs $8-12 for a 5 quart batch.


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## Forrest Root (Dec 22, 2006)

Bocephus Jones II said:


> +1...I never clean my chain anymore...just use prolink and wipe with a rag after each ride. It doesn't look that clean, but it makes the chains last.


+16. I Prolink about every 100 miles. It works great, simplifies chain maintenance to the point that even college business majors can do it, and takes all of a couple of minutes to finish.

I really worry about the mental health of people that have sparkling clean chains.


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## fabsroman (Jul 14, 2006)

Forrest Root said:


> I really worry about the mental health of people that have sparkling clean chains.


Hey, I started off as a general business major in college, and then got talked into being an accountant. Maybe that "accounts" for my need to have a sparkling clean chain, or at least somewhat shiny chain.


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## RoyIII (Feb 24, 2007)

When you cite your homebrew as "4:1" which number is the oil and which number is the mineral spirits or solvent?


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## Forrest Root (Dec 22, 2006)

benchpress265 said:


> If you are throwing out credentials, here are mine. 3 years mechanical design engineer BFG, 2 years Tire building Department area engineer (BFG). 26 years Plant and Manfacturing Engineer LNP Engineering Plastics/GE Plastics. Last 3 years Manufacturing Engineer Infinity Compounding (part owner in the company)


I am so, amazingly underwhelmed and unimpressed by your credentials. I am glad, though, that you're impressed with yourself.


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## Touch0Gray (May 29, 2003)

fabsroman said:


> Dan,
> 
> Are you talking about an actual shop, like a business, or are you referring to the home mechanic? I have put solvent soaked shop towels in the trash on occassion, and now you have me worried that I might be looking at burning down the house. How much should I worry about this in my garage with a rag or two here and there. When I refer to rag, I am referring to the blue shop towels that come on a roll like Bounty paper towels.
> 
> If this is something I should worry about, what type of air tight container should I purchase to eliminate the worry? Trash pickup is every Monday, Wednesday, and Saturday, so would I be better off just putting them out in the trash whenever I have them?


I believe the biggest concern is when dealing with linseed oil based products. I do not believe mineral spirits pose a risk, although I could be wrong


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## C-40 (Feb 4, 2004)

*info..*



RoyIII said:


> When you cite your homebrew as "4:1" which number is the oil and which number is the mineral spirits or solvent?


4 parts solvent to 1 part oil. Some use a mix as heavy as 2/1 and I've used as light as 6/1.


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## MIN in PDX (Nov 29, 2007)

What exactly is a mineral spirit and what is the commercial marketing for such a product? 
(Eg. What's the package called?)


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## C-40 (Feb 4, 2004)

*paint thinner..*



MIN in PDX said:


> What exactly is a mineral spirit and what is the commercial marketing for such a product?
> (Eg. What's the package called?)


It will be called paint thinner for oil-based paint or odorless mineral spirits (more expensive). Another product that will evaporate a bit faster is naptha. Coleman camp stove fuel is naptha.


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## uncle (Dec 27, 2007)

*Easy to make*

The chain lube that C-40 raves about not only works great, but is ultra-easy to make.

1. Pour all but 4 oz. of oil into your car's engine from the original plastic bottle.

2. Pour either odorless mineral spirits or Coleman camp stove fuel into the container and 
bring the level up to the 20 oz. mark.

BOOM !


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## Kerry Irons (Feb 25, 2002)

*Another country heard from*



DIRT BOY said:


> Oh yeah genius? I guess REAL WORLD fresults don't matter just marketing from companies. Like Rock n Roll Lube. Biggest piece ofc rap I have ever tried. Homebrew, Prolink and Boesheild IMO are the best and have been proven.


That about sums it up, except of course different people would tell you that Rock n Roll, Boeshield, homebrew, ProLink, Pedro's Ice Wax, White Lightning, candle wax on the stove top, TriFlow, WD-40, etc. is the best lube and all the rest are crap. While the consensus certainly supports ProLink/homebrew, there are always those who find them to be crap and are anxious to tell us that something else is the schiznit. Diversity, baby!


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## fabsroman (Jul 14, 2006)

Min in PDX,

You are about the same place I was 8 months ago. I was reading about "home brew" this and "home brew" that all over this board in my search for chain maintenance, and I was left scratching my head as to what it is. I think I had to actually ask. Then, when I was told it was 4 parts mineral spirits to 1 part motor oil, I was left scratching my head as to what mineral spirits are and what motor oil I should use. The guys explained that to me too. Found the odorless mineral spirits at Home Depot, and I can assure you that they are not odorless. If they are, I must have a nose like Wolverine. The Mobil 1 oil I already had. So, now I have some great lube that doesn't cost too much, and that is with the more expensive "odorless" mineral spirits. Mine is a gallon in a metal container, kind of like my gallon of WD-40. 

Speakig of WD-40, we had a pretty good debate about that one too, but WD-40 costs around $15 a gallon and the mineral spirits and Mobil 1 are cheaper than that.


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## Cruzer2424 (Feb 8, 2005)

wow. am I the only one that never bothers cleaning his chain beyond a lube/wipe job?

I don't log miles (I can only estimate... I only log hours), but I measure it about once, maybe twice a month and usually get 3-4 months out of a chain.


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## Mr. Versatile (Nov 24, 2005)

It just astonishes me that so much time and energy can be used on what to lube your chain with. People will stand around for hours and argue about this. This is not rocket science people. We're talking about bicycle chains. Lube them with whatever you want. 

Now shut the f*** up, and lets go ride.


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## fabsroman (Jul 14, 2006)

3 to 4 months for a chain? You must be logging some serious hours on the bike then. I had 3,000 miles for all of 2008 and only went through one chain, and that was because I took the wrong pin out of that Campy Record chain and it just wouldn't work when I put it back together.

Curiousity killed the cat, but I am curious. How many hours do you log in 3 to 4 months, and would you assume you average 20 mph over them (i.e., hard training), or is it something more like 15 mph (i.e., just cruising around).

How often do you change your cassette because you wear it out?


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## 99trek5200 (Jan 26, 2007)

benchpress265 said:


> I would never use WD40 on a chain, the term oil is generic, use a product that has been specifically designed and tested for chain use, you need an "oil" that can penetrate to were the lub is required. WD40 is not indended or engineered for bike chain use. All you so called lubrication experts out there do not know what you are talking about and have littlle knowledge of lubrication oils or what they are meant for. I hear this stuff all the time on this forum about home brews and other cheap over so called counter oils and recommending stuff that is not designed for the use intended. If these experts know so much they should be wealthy by now from all the consulting services that they provide.


I think some of the "so called experts" are indeed wealthy from the products they provide. What is it $8 for 4oz of ProLink? It is far more marketing than a "scientific formulaton just for bicycle chains". Remember this....It is a freaking bicycle chain, not the bearings on a fighter jet engine. The key is keeping it clean and lubricated (with any light oil). If you do that the chain will wear out due to stretching long before failure due to friction.


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## Forrest Root (Dec 22, 2006)

99trek5200 said:


> I think some of the "so called experts" are indeed wealthy from the products they provide. What is it $8 for 4oz of ProLink? It is far more marketing than a "scientific formulaton just for bicycle chains". Remember this....It is a freaking bicycle chain, not the bearings on a fighter jet engine. The key is keeping it clean and lubricated (with any light oil). If you do that the chain will wear out due to stretching long before failure due to friction.


Boy, I guess I'm really getting hosed by that "$8" bottle of Prolink. When I pay $6.95 for a bottle about every 6 months or so--if that: I'm out a whopping $13.90 a year! Jeez, with prices sky high like that, it's no wonder foreclosure rates are so high! I'll bet every foreclosure was, in part, caused by a homeowner spending too much on non-home brew chain lube!


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## 99trek5200 (Jan 26, 2007)

Forrest Root said:


> Boy, I guess I'm really getting hosed by that "$8" bottle of Prolink. When I pay $6.95 for a bottle about every 6 months or so--if that: I'm out a whopping $13.90 a year! Jeez, with prices sky high like that, it's no wonder foreclosure rates are so high! I'll bet every foreclosure was, in part, caused by a homeowner spending too much on non-home brew chain lube!


Hey, I have a bottle of ProLink too. I may or may not buy another one when it is gone. I really don't want a gallon of home brew around. Perhaps if I bought some small bottles I could sell the excess...

My point is that snake oil is out there. Just because a company says it is so does not make it so. A prime example is the "Tornado" device that you stick in your air intake to create a vortex that would will "improve power and gas mileage" Right. It actually creates an obstuction thereby slowing the air flow to the engine. Plus, don't you think that if it worked the auto companies would have snapped it up in a heartbeat to be OEM equipment.


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## Touch0Gray (May 29, 2003)

99trek5200 said:


> Hey, I have a bottle of ProLink too. I may or may not buy another one when it is gone. I really don't want a gallon of home brew around. Perhaps if I bought some small bottles I could sell the excess...
> 
> My point is that snake oil is out there. Just because a company says it is so does not make it so. A prime example is the "Tornado" device that you stick in your air intake to create a vortex that would will "improve power and gas mileage" Right. It actually creates an obstuction thereby slowing the air flow to the engine. Plus, don't you think that if it worked the auto companies would have snapped it up in a heartbeat to be OEM equipment.


No I think that if it worked the oil companies would have snapped it up and BURIED it.


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## benchpress265 (Nov 7, 2006)

The point I was making with my credentials is this, I am an engineer with lots of experience, C40 stated he was an "mechanical" engineer. So because I am an engineer and he is an engineer that does not make us lubrication experts. . He is making statements about a lubricant that was produced in the 1950's. He has no proof what so ever to substantiate his opinion. There is no scientific proof other then he talked to a GM engineer. Gee give me a break. Read the facts on WD 40. Their web cite is like an TV comercial selling snake oil. They even have a FAN club. WD 40 is just an inexpensive lubricant for house hold crap. So he says he proved it on a campy chain, huh!. Let see the scientific data, better yet let see Campy endorse it, or Shimano endorse it. Then I will believe it. Lets see a comparison agianst other bike chain oils.

WD-40, what does it mean "Water Displacement 40th try" I think since the 1950 there is something better.

But again people are like sheep, just follow the shephard to the slaughter house!

I buy a bike that is worth a couple grand, I will put a lubricant on it that is at least meant for the application. Not some oil that will cure arthritus.

Hey it is 2008 there is better stuff out there!

So C40 your just full of it! Talk a good game but I have yet to see you produce any proof of your claims. Sorry I am not a sheep, I need facts. Scientific fact, your a so called "engineer" provide them please!

By the way I love a good fight!


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## fabsroman (Jul 14, 2006)

I would tend to disagree that there is better stuff out there just because of the passage of time. Yeah, things get better with time, but so does marketing. I find that way too many Americans are separated from their money because of these "miracle" solutions.

As has been noted above, it is just a chain, and a chain not put through much torture at that. It isn't a timing chain on a vehicle motor, it isn't a chain on a piece of heavy machinery. I used WD-40 on my bike in the 1980's and then read all kinds of hype about how bad it was. If you read some of my other posts on this subject, I think I mentioned that I got a ton of mileage out of that chain. Thing is, I never knew about elongation because I was a teenager back then and we didn't have something called the internet. I only worried about how the bike shifted and how many miles I put in. I personally think WD-40 will work just fine on a bike chain, but it is more expensive than home brew, so I am going with home brew.

By the way, my Campy Record chains cost $45 a piece. If I get 5,000 miles out of each one, I wonder what it costs me to keep one of them lubricated with the newest and greatest thing.

If I run out of things to do, maybe I'll become as anal as C-40 regarding chain maintenance. Lord knows I'm anal about a lot of other things I do. Then, I'll log how often I lubricate the chain, how often I clean it in the ultrasonic cleaner, and how many miles I get out of it, paying very close attention to elongation.

At the end of the day, it takes me about 15 to 20 minutes of work to earn the $45 to replace the chain. As long as it shifts smoothly, doesn't look like it is black, and doesn't make a lot of noise, do you really think I'm going to worry about how long it lasts? Trust me, I'm not losing sleep over the number of miles I get out of a chain. Now, I was losing sleep over the time it took and the mess I made to clean a chain, but now that I have the ultrasonic cleaner, I can sleep easy. I'm debating whether to make it a rule to change my training bike chain at the start of every season, the racing bike chains every other season, and the TT bike every 5 years, but who knows, I lose track of that stuff too easily.

They should put chain cleaning in the same discussion department as politics, religion, and money.


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## benchpress265 (Nov 7, 2006)

C-40 and the other sheep out there, maybe you would listen to this guy
http://www.instructables.com/id/Why-WD40-Should-Never-Be-Used-on-Your-Bike-Chain/


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## benchpress265 (Nov 7, 2006)

C-40 read this one too!
http://www.naturalhandyman.com/iip/infxtra/infwd40.html


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## MIN in PDX (Nov 29, 2007)

For the people who are poo-poo-ing this thread: realized that this level of detail is not required if you are the prototypical Nashbar cyclist. However, for those with ti-cassettes, light weight chains, super light chainrings and the "perceptive ability to know the difference" then it is important to dissect something as simple as chain maintenance in detail. 

For instance, there's already been many reports of wildly varying chain life on this thread. This is no doubt due to the varying level of chain care. Not only that, some people will just never noticed the difference. It's not a value judgement... 

Some people are in to riding for the cycling aspect. However, I am interested in the nitty-gritty details too because it completes the cycling circle for me. I feel more in tune with my bike when I do everything myself.


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## fabsroman (Jul 14, 2006)

I should submit this thing to the show Mythbusters. I wonder how they would test this myth out.

The reason why he says that WD-40 shouldn't be used on a bike chain is because it is a solvent. So is home brew and prolink, with an oil additive that remains behind after the solvent evaporates. I think WD-40 does the same thing.

My sound isn't working for You Tube, so I don't know what that kid said, but he looks like he is younger than me.

This is going to be another one of those never ending chain cleaning threads.

Did I mention that ultrasonic cleaners rock!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! LOL


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## fabsroman (Jul 14, 2006)

I second that, but I just cannot get too excited about chain maintenance. I don't let anybody touch my bikes. The last time was a little over a year ago when I had a shop install a Chris King headset on my Cristallo because I didn't have the tools. They didn't match the Chris King labels on the top and bottom races and they scratched my fork, which is hardly noticeable but to somebody as anal as me. After that, I spent the money for the headset and fork installation tools and did everything on my Arte, Oval Krono, FG Lite, and CAAD5. For me, cycling is as much about turning the pedals as it is about bike maintenance. I'm kind of the same way about our cars. Still, I cannot get too excited about chain maintenance. It doesn't even come close to building a Zipp wheel with CX Ray spokes on Tune hubs, but that is just me.


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## Touch0Gray (May 29, 2003)

fabsroman said:


> Did I mention that ultrasonic cleaners rock!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! LOL


I told ya so.......

disclaimer: I am not an engineer, but I still know ultrasonics and steam ROCK.....


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## Mapei (Feb 3, 2004)

I follow Sheldon's ritual chain-cleaning ritual weekly. Actually, I have Sogno do it.


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## MIN in PDX (Nov 29, 2007)

fabsroman said:


> Still, I cannot get too excited about chain maintenance. It doesn't even come close to building a Zipp wheel with CX Ray spokes on Tune hubs, but that is just me.


Believe me, I'm not excited about this. But there comes a point when you just can't do anything more.

BTW, I used WD-40 on my chain today after a race recon for tomorrow in the rain. Worked great! :thumbsup:


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## Touch0Gray (May 29, 2003)

fabsroman said:


> I second that, but I just cannot get too excited about chain maintenance. I don't let anybody touch my bikes. The last time was a little over a year ago when I had a shop install a Chris King headset on my Cristallo because I didn't have the tools. They didn't match the Chris King labels on the top and bottom races and they scratched my fork, which is hardly noticeable but to somebody as anal as me. After that, I spent the money for the headset and fork installation tools and did everything on my Arte, Oval Krono, FG Lite, and CAAD5. For me, cycling is as much about turning the pedals as it is about bike maintenance. I'm kind of the same way about our cars. Still, I cannot get too excited about chain maintenance. It doesn't even come close to building a Zipp wheel with CX Ray spokes on Tune hubs, but that is just me.


I'm with you....most of the times I have let a shop work on my bike they screw something up. (One exception and they are good, they are arrogant and they are expensive.......BUT it gets done fast and right)
A clean bike is a happy bike.....well at least a clean bike makes ME happy.... the drive train get to be the dirtiest part. Not a REAL issue if the oil/dust/grit grinding paste doesn't bother you and you are made out of money to replace worn components......or you don't get flats ever or carry rubber gloves to remove the rear wheel on the road.

I like working on my bike, but 90% of the time the only REAL work to do is clean it.


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## Touch0Gray (May 29, 2003)

Mapei said:


> I follow Sheldon's ritual chain-cleaning ritual weekly. Actually, I have Sogno do it.


You talkin' bout the total disassembly with new pins and haz-mat suit?


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## uncle (Dec 27, 2007)

MIN in PDX said:


> I used one of those self contained chain scrubbers with the specified amount of degreaser, which was supplied. At first I was pleased with how clean the chain was but I realized it was only cosmetic.
> 
> Now my chain has stiff links and sounds crusty despite being visually clean. I applied dry lube several times (what I normally use) and wiped off the excess, per my normal routine, and I still can't get that "new chain" smoothness.
> 
> What's a OCD bike nerd to do?



Getting back to the original post, I'm befuddled at how a degreaser could screw up a steel chain as described. The chain must have been so caked with grit that it mixed with the degreaser and penetrated where it shouldn't have penetrated. If it's a newish chain, then flush the **** out of it with mineral spirits multiple times if you have to. 

If it's an old chain, get a new one and move on ! 

I now pronounce this thread..............DEAD


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## Touch0Gray (May 29, 2003)

I HIGHLY suspect the OP degreased with a water based detergent and then allowed it to air-dry...at which point it started to rust... a bit of fresh lube OF ANY SORT of lube and run it for a while and it will be fine.


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## benchpress265 (Nov 7, 2006)

C-40 lets go to the WD 40 site and find out what WD 40 will do for a bike.

http://wd40.com/Uses/cat_sports_cleans_removes_squeaks.cfm

That is the web site if you don't have it

Lets see what they claim

Degreases bike chains (yep it has plenty of solvent)
Drive moisture from bike bearings (yep any solvent will do that) I bet you need to grease them after you do that though!
Degreases bike frames (kudos again, any solvent will do that, gee I wonder what it will do to the paint)
Stops squeaks on Bicycle seat post (hey that is a good one, I would buy it for that alone)
Cleans bike tires (even better yet!) I need to clean my tires all the time. (I wonder if the solvent will attack the tire, Oh that is another issue that we can discuss)

Gee, the word lubricate seems to be missing from the list of stuff WD 40 does for bikes. I must have missed it, let me look again just to make sure. Hey it lubricates shoe buckles, I guess I can use it on my SIDI Genuis road shoes. Once in awhile I have trouble getting that ratchet snap to come undone!

Do you think the lawyers at WD 40 are stupid or something, they don't use the word lubricate because it probably does not lubricate bike chains very well. And again, they did not design it for bike chains. (cleaning circuit boards or something like that back in the 50's I think).

Hey the stuff has it uses, but bike chains I would say is a miss application of the product, and I think that they (WD40) know that! 

Are we done with this argument now or do you really want me to dig deeper or as they taught me at GE "DRILL DOWN". Six Sigma term or something.

All you sheep out there find a new shephard! Get a lubricant that will actually lubricate your bike chain. And by all means do your own research on products.


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## MIN in PDX (Nov 29, 2007)

It was Finish Line Multi-Degreaser eco-tec 2.


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## benchpress265 (Nov 7, 2006)

Hey UNCLE

Not dead yet until C40 say UNCLE


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## fabsroman (Jul 14, 2006)

I almost took your advice about using the Tassimo to steam clean my chain, but then I figured it wasn't worth being hit by a frying pan by my wife. It is bad enough when I am working on bike wheels or unwrapping UPS packages with bike parts in them on the granite counter tops. I cannot imagine what would happen if I brought a "dirty" bike chain into the kitchen. LOL

What do you use to steam clean your chain? I have a little more counter space left in the garage. LOL


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## fabsroman (Jul 14, 2006)

I would continue to argue with you about this, but it isn't worth it. If WD-40 is just a bunch of solvent, spray some of it on a piece of metal, let it sit around for a day or two, and then see if there is any lubrication left on the metal. The solvent should evaporate within a day or two. I'd go out to the garage and do it right now, but I doubt you would believe me if I told you there was some lubricant left on the piece of metal tomorrow evening. Heck, I doubt you would believe it if you saw it with your own eyes.

BY the way, I have a gallon of WD-40 sitting in the cabinet, and a spray bottle, not aeresol bottle of it, full of it in the garage. During the winter, a portion of the WD-40 becomes very thick and stays at the bottom of the spray bottle. Somehow, I seriously doubt that is solvent. If I'm not mistaken, solvent has a much lower freezing temp, but I could be wrong because I'm not an engineer, and that is a true and honest statement.

Maybe WD-40 owns one of the bicycle brand lubrication companies and it doesn't want to compete with the stuff it sells for $8 for 4 oz.'s. LOL


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## Forrest Root (Dec 22, 2006)

fabsroman said:


> Hey, I started off as a general business major in college, and then got talked into being an accountant. Maybe that "accounts" for my need to have a sparkling clean chain, or at least somewhat shiny chain.


I won't hold that against you: not everyone can navigate their way to the Physics Promiseland.


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## Mapei (Feb 3, 2004)

WD-40 makes for a fine cologne, too.


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## Cruzer2424 (Feb 8, 2005)

fabsroman said:


> 3 to 4 months for a chain? You must be logging some serious hours on the bike then. I had 3,000 miles for all of 2008 and only went through one chain, and that was because I took the wrong pin out of that Campy Record chain and it just wouldn't work when I put it back together.
> 
> Curiousity killed the cat, but I am curious. How many hours do you log in 3 to 4 months, and would you assume you average 20 mph over them (i.e., hard training), or is it something more like 15 mph (i.e., just cruising around).
> 
> How often do you change your cassette because you wear it out?


haha.

1-Feb 1:45
2-Feb 4:29
3-Feb 4:10
5-Feb 2:23
6-Feb 2:47
7-Feb 3:47
8-Feb 1:20
9-Feb 5:09
10-Feb 3:11
11-Feb 2:32
12-Feb 5:38
13-Feb 2:15
14-Feb 3:45
16-Feb 5:18
17-Feb 4:04
19-Feb 4:01
20-Feb 3:37
21-Feb 2:28
22-Feb 2:03
23-Feb 4:46
24-Feb 3:49
25-Feb 2:45
26-Feb 2:34
28-Feb 4:45
29-Feb 1:36

not sure how many that is. i don't know how to get excel to add up hours nicely (it gives me an answer like it's starting over again every 12 hours). it's _supposed_ to be around 22-27 hours/week.

as far as cassettes go, I couldn't tell you. I just throw em out, or give them to teammates after they start skipping. I have most sizes and they get switched quite often depending on course. Although I've had the 11-25 on since Oct(?)... hah. Still _seems_ to be going strong. It's the same chain since I got the cassette too... which could also probably mean they're both hosed. haha. But most of my Sept-Dec riding time was on the CX bike. 

sorry you asked? haha.


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## uncle (Dec 27, 2007)

*Not Dead*

I now pronounce this thread (er, battleground) re-openend !

Although I don't think we're going to get an "uncle" out of C-40 anytime soon. 

Hey fabsroman, one time I used the kitchen sink to clean a headset bearing and to this day there's patch marks on the ceiling where Wifey shot through like a missile.(Good thing she came back. She's a babe). 
As for bringing a chain into the litchen...............................No


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## fabsroman (Jul 14, 2006)

I took a shot at the Physics Promiseland in high school when I took AP Physics, but I had to drop it because I dropped AP Calculus which I was struggling in, and I needed to know the Calculus to do the Physics. I stayed in the Physics class till the end of the semester, and then just decided it was too tough. Took business calculus in college which was a synch. I still remember some of the equations from physics, but they are the basic ones, like how a bullet drops over time, how to calculate distance traveled based on acceleration and constant speed thereafter. That might be about all I remember.


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## Forrest Root (Dec 22, 2006)

I've been known to dabble in physics and engineering, but still I've never done any of these things:

_3 years mechanical design engineer BFG, 2 years Tire building Department area engineer (BFG). 26 years Plant and Manfacturing Engineer LNP Engineering Plastics/GE Plastics. Last 3 years Manufacturing Engineer Infinity Compounding (part owner in the company)​_
Heck, I've never even played a rheologist on TV. Still I'm quasi sure that slippery film left on a surface a few days after it's been WD40'd might be a lubricant. Golly, do solvents stick around that long after the chemicals they've carried have been applied?


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## Forrest Root (Dec 22, 2006)

fabsroman said:


> I took a shot at the Physics Promiseland in high school when I took AP Physics, but I had to drop it because I dropped AP Calculus which I was struggling in, and I needed to know the Calculus to do the Physics. I stayed in the Physics class till the end of the semester, and then just decided it was too tough. Took business calculus in college which was a synch. I still remember some of the equations from physics, but they are the basic ones, like how a bullet drops over time, how to calculate distance traveled based on acceleration and constant speed thereafter. That might be about all I remember.


Well, look at like this: by not majoring in physics, you avoided having a perpetual stabbing headache. Of course you missed out on experiencing one very closely kept secret of physics: physicists can throw really sick parties. Look at this guy. He was a veritable rock star:


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## brujenn (Nov 26, 2007)

Hi Benchpress, I can't quite place your accent... Where are you from?


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## fabsroman (Jul 14, 2006)

LOL. Talking about headaches, try being an attorney/CPA. I'm up at 1:00 in the morning working on a client's tax returns, and amending their 2005 and 2006 returns because their previous tax preparer was a rocket scientist and failed to take their rental loss on the 2005 return and failed to properly take their rental loss on the 2006 return. He even filed a 2006 Amended Return for the 2006 return and screwed that all up. On top of that, I know he used Turbo Tax or Kiplingers to prepare the return because he merely signed over the "Self Prepared" printed on the preparer's signature line. The 2007 return should be so much easier once I get these two straightened out. That is until I have to explain to my clients what expenses are actually deductible as unreimbursed employee expenses (e.g., I saw haircuts on their excel spreadsheet) and what travel expenses are deductible for their rental property. Luckily, I don't get headaches too easily, but I do tend to tighten every muscle on my body when I work on these types of returns.

By the way, attorneys throw much better parties than CPA's. LOL


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## fabsroman (Jul 14, 2006)

Yep, with that kind of mileage, you can go through some serious chains and cassettes. In 2 months you do what I do in a year. What Cat are you racing in, and what area? I'm racing Cat 4 in the DC area, but I'll be concentrating on Masters 30+ and trying to upgrade to get out of the crash 4's this year. Last year was my first year back racing after 20 years off, and the 5's and 4's were a nightmare.


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## Balderick (Jul 11, 2006)

Fabsroman,

You make me want to get an ultrasonic cleaner. Sounds like a lot of fun.

Do you really only ride 3000 miles per annum?

To the OP, I have used one of those chain cleaners for while now, and they work OK. I use mineral turpentine in mine, change the fluid until it is clean, then give a rinse with water. Then wash the rest of the bike, wipe it all off, then relube using a teflon/oil I bought at the bike shop. All works well, and when chain wears out put a new one on. I get about 3000 kilometres per chain, which is about every 8 to 10 weeks. 

I have used WD40 at a few very wet MTB endurance events, where all you have time is to hose the chain and cassette off, then hit it with WD40. Get a couple of of hours out, and do again. Another reason why I don't dabble on the MTB much any more.


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## California L33 (Jan 20, 2006)

White Lightning gets a lot of the crud off without attracting a lot more, but it's messy- the dirt clings to it and it flings off the chain getting just about everywhere. The chain never gets really clean, but never gets really dirty, either. I've been using that and Boeshield for years. 

I like the discussion about WD-40. It will either bring world peace or destroy civilization as we know it. We might have to wait another 50 years to find out which one, though. I used to use it, as well as 'Schwinn Bike Oil,' and never had a bike explode or won a major stage race because my chain had less friction than everybody else's. I rarely ride in the rain so prefer dry lubes.


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## benchpress265 (Nov 7, 2006)

I am glad you mentioned exploding, WD 40 does

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-3874058244391438463


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## C-40 (Feb 4, 2004)

*amusing...*

Why would an experienced engineer pay any attention to some kid who work on bikes for a living? Just another moron repeating what someone has told him.

If that guy had any brains he'd know that any lubricant that's on a chain is quickly contaminated with dirt and only frequent replacement with new lube will extend chain life. Unlike motorcycle chains, there are no O-ring seals keeping grease around the pins. 

Prolink, is nothing but mineral spirits and some type of oil, but it's a highly regarded product, made "just for chains" because it comes in small bottles and sells for $8? 

The idea that there is valuable grease in a chain is a real joke. I've degreased chains and used nothing but homebrew on them from day one and got 6,000 miles of use with little elongation.


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## C-40 (Feb 4, 2004)

*read the can...*

You should try using all the experience that you claim to have to think for yourself or prove me wrong. I just noticed that you started cycling 2 years ago, but seem to think you know everything about bikes. I've been wrenching on bikes since 1985, so I've got a few more years of experimenting with bike chain and lubes that you have.

You think that a product which contains a large percentage of oil, that lubricates the dozens of mechanisms listed, can't lubricate a bike chain? Read the back of the can! It says: LUBICATES moving parts such as hinges, wheels, rollers, CHAINS, gears.

I really liked your other post with the moron kid explaining how bike chains move too fast for WD-40 to work. 

Whenever someone make ridiculous claims like yours, I run my own tests and post the results. As I've stated, I've used WD-40 plenty of times, right after a thorough degreasing and soap and water cleaning of a chain, then went on a 50 mile ride the next day. No problems with it at all. I never ride 200-300 miles without lubing like some do, because it only takes a couple of minutes to lube and wipe the chain and I get great chain life with frequent lubing. I've been reading postings on bike forums for a lot of years and found that a whole lot of people think that 2,000 miles on a chain is a normal life, while I get 2-3 times that much.


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## Jim Nazium (Feb 3, 2004)

I use extra virgin olive oil. It lubes the chain, plus it smells good. Reminds me of Italy.


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## fabsroman (Jul 14, 2006)

My log from last year, which is the first year I really started riding hard again and racing after 20 years, shows 3,200 miles. The majority of that mileage came between mid March and mid September. It was good enough for a 2nd, 3rd, and 4th place finish in Cat 5, and several 3rd, 4th, and 8th place finishes in Cat 4 with a 8th place in a Masters 35+ race at the end of the season. I really didn't get my form back last year until mid June. That will probably be the same thing this year. Usually, I am stuck doing tax returns from January to mid April. After the racing season ended last year (i.e., mid September), I found myself trying to get caught up on all the work I had been postponing due to training and racing, so I road very little since September to now. Anyway, my goal for this year is 5,000 miles, but I am getting off to a pretty crap start on it.

Like I said, the ultrasonic cleaner is awesome for me. I can put a chain or cassette in it, turn it on for 10 minutes, do something else, come back and wipe the part down, and it is pretty darn clean.


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## LO^OK (Feb 1, 2008)

*any "oil" will suffice....*

Several posters imply any "oil" provide lubrication; engine oil get mentioned several times; and bicycle chains is cited as "just a chain".

Lubricants are not alike, and among other things their lubrication properties are tailored to the stresses and the temperature of the working environment. For instance, no lazy V8 from 1970s and a modern turbo should use the same oil ever. Same for different gearboxes - each with it's designated lubricant.

Back to cycling. Any use of Mobil (or any other) engine oil on bicycle is driven by pure ignorance (and lunacy perhaps). And Yes, cycle chain is special case due to fast moving cold components fully exposed to the elements.

Just MO.


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## Touch0Gray (May 29, 2003)

Jim Nazium said:


> I use extra virgin olive oil. It lubes the chain, plus it smells good. Reminds me of Italy.


and provides the essential omega III fats your chain so badly needs...


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## C-40 (Feb 4, 2004)

*opinions...*



LO^OK said:


> Several posters imply any "oil" provide lubrication; engine oil get mentioned several times; and bicycle chains is cited as "just a chain".
> 
> Lubricants are not alike, and among other things their lubrication properties are tailored to the stresses and the temperature of the working environment. For instance, no lazy V8 from 1970s and a modern turbo should use the same oil ever. Same for different gearboxes - each with it's designated lubricant.
> 
> ...


You're wrong that a lazy V-8 and a turbocharged engine can't use the same oil, as long as it's the oil intended for the severe service of the turbocharged engine that is used in both, but I get the (irrelevant) point you're trying to make.

The fact that synthetic motor oil will produce excellent chain life with very little elongation after 6,000 miles of use proves that it is not ignorant or lunacy to use it. 

It is ignorant to ignore the fact that many people have used nothing else for many years with great results. I've used nothing but a mix of mineral spirits and synthetic motor oil for about 8 years with great results. I've never read of users of expensive chain lubes getting better results.

I would agree that bicycle chains are a "special case" due to that fact they are totally exposed to the elements, including lots of abrasive road grit. Some riders also ride in the wet and need a heavier lube to resist the affects of water.

There are a great many lubes sold with different advantages and disadvantages. The user has to understand his riding conditions and pick not only the best lube for those conditions, but also the appropriate frequency of application and cleaning. The other approach that some people take is to lube their chains infrequently, whenever they start squeaking, and install a new one every 1500-2000 miles.


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## fabsroman (Jul 14, 2006)

I was debating the 1500 to 2000 mile change interval, but I think I'm going to give cleaning and lubing a good try this year.

"Yes, cycle chain is special case due to fast moving cold components"

As far as that comment is concerned, I don't think heat will help a chain out, regardless of where it is. I'm pretty sure that engine heat doesn't help a motor's chain. Imagine the stress put on an engine motor's timing chain spinning at 5,000+ rpm. Now that is a FAST moving HOT component, and the Mobil 1 works just fine. Granted, the oil is being pumped to the chain and it is continuously there, but if it doesn't wash off a bike chain I would think it would do just fine for the bike chain. I seriously doubt our 90 to 100 cadence will even come close to the speed that a car motor turns over. Plus, friction causes heat, so if the chain is really under that much stress, it should be somewhat warm. I have yet to burn my hand when I get off the bike and put on a dropped chain.

Other than road grit, I think bicycle chains have a pretty easy life. Mine have a great life because I rarely ever ride in the rain.


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## fabsroman (Jul 14, 2006)

That is a terrible use of extra virgin olive oil. Me, I prefer melting down some Crisco in a pot and dipping the chain in it. Man, is that chain smooth after that, and the layer of Crisco acts just like White Lightning in keeping the dirt from actually reaching the chain's moving parts.

Hopefully, somebody doesn't read this and think we are serious. I remember wondering if you guys were joking about this "home brew" stuff.


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## wim (Feb 28, 2005)

benchpress265 said:


> C-40 read this one too!
> http://www.naturalhandyman.com/iip/infxtra/infwd40.html


Well, I'm not C-40, but started to read this anyway. Until I got to this:

_Because WD-40 acts as a solvent, it should not be used where removal of grease is an issue, such as on bicycle chains or around exposed bearings of any type or it may damage the grease and cause premature wear!_

Damage the bicycle chain grease? Ummmm, OK . . .


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## airs0ft3r (Feb 28, 2008)

I use silicon grease and silicon oil. So far it keeps my chains clean and silent. I never use WD-40.


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## LO^OK (Feb 1, 2008)

fabsroman said:


> I was debating the 1500 to 2000 mile change interval, but I think I'm going to give cleaning and lubing a good try this year.
> 
> "Yes, cycle chain is special case due to fast moving cold components"
> 
> ...



Well, with all due respect please think a little before commenting on a post. Heat (engine or gearbox in case of cars) helps the oil as car lubricants are tailored to perform at their best when engine (or gearbox) is at working temperature. According to estimates 70% and over of engine wear take place in the first 10 min from cold start. 

So much for using engine oil on bicycle.... One can try mayoneze as a chain lubricant and still get xxxx km but that's a testament of the particular chain ability to sustain abuse, not of the lubricating properties of mayo home recipe.  

Better comparing bicycle chain and sprockets with car transmission, not the engine. Gearboxes and diffs can get pretty hot btw and it's not manufacturers conspiracy to sell stuff when employing forced lubrication and active cooling in drivetrain. Bike chain is neither physically protected nor can enjoy such luxuries as forced lubrication (or the high tech transmission lubricants). It may not get hot to the touch but that's because of the constant airflow.

I for one would stick with commercial lubricants that are designed for the purpose.


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## fabsroman (Jul 14, 2006)

As I mentioned above, discussing this topic is like discussing politics, religion, and money. There is no right answer, regardless of how much we want to argue about it.

As far as most of engine wear occuring in the first 10 minutes of driving, I'll agree with you on that. I honestly think it occurs during the first 30 seconds, with most of the wear occuring during the first 5 seconds. The main reason is that all of the oil in the motor has drained to the pan. When you crank up the motor, there is no, or a very limited amountof, oil between the ring seals and the block wall and there is very little oil in on the timing chain. Once the motor gets started, the oil starts flowing. At the end of the day, I think most of the motor wear is at the piston rings, with some wear at the timing chain and sprocket. The timing chain and sprocket in my Taurus is supposed to go 200,000 miles without replacement. So far, I have 180,000 on it.

Vehicle engine oil does work better as it gets hotter. It is formulated so that it gets thicker as it gets hotter. So, on start up, it is somewhat thin until it warms up. So, if bike chains get the least bit warm, this would work in motor oil's favor.

We can sit here and debate this all day long. However, C-40 has gotten plenty of miles out of chains using home brew, and I am sure that plenty of others have gotten plenty of miles out of the commercially marketed stuff. It is all about what floats your boat.

Look, I just paid $300 for an ultrasonic cleaner, and most people would think I am out of my mind for doing so. Then, I'm using homebrew to save a couple dollars on chain lube. Its all about what makes a person happy. There is no right or wrong.

Kind of like asking, "Which is the preferred breakfast, ham and eggs or sausage and eggs?" They both work.


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## Touch0Gray (May 29, 2003)

LO^OK said:


> Well, with all due respect please think a little before commenting on a post. Heat (engine or gearbox in case of cars) helps the oil as car lubricants are tailored to perform at their best when engine (or gearbox) is at working temperature. According to estimates 70% and over of engine wear take place in the first 10 min from cold start.
> 
> So much for using engine oil on bicycle.... One can try mayoneze as a chain lubricant and still get xxxx km but that's a testament of the particular chain ability to sustain abuse, not of the lubricating properties of mayo home recipe.
> 
> ...


I make my homebrew out of chainsaw chain lube, stihl brand, winter weight, synthetic. I assume it was made specifically for high speed chains, requiring serious lubrication in somewhat less than optimum conditions. How does this stack up to the experts as a bike chain lubricant?


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## fabsroman (Jul 14, 2006)

Wow, now that makes a lot of sense. I might have to take a trip over to Home Depot to get some chainsaw chain lubricant. Then again, I usually use conventional motor oil in my chain saws to oil the chain. Haven't really been cutting a ton of wood lately, but my dad's 20 year old chainsaw is still running and he does the same thing. LOL Knock on wood (no pun intended), we haven't had a chain break on any of the chainsaws.


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## Touch0Gray (May 29, 2003)

fabsroman said:


> Wow, now that makes a lot of sense. I might have to take a trip over to Home Depot to get some chainsaw chain lubricant. Then again, I usually use conventional motor oil in my chain saws to oil the chain. Haven't really been cutting a ton of wood lately, but my dad's 20 year old chainsaw is still running and he does the same thing. LOL Knock on wood (no pun intended), we haven't had a chain break on any of the chainsaws.


I tried to cut a good hard rock last spring....That pretty much trashed an otherwise good chain.....no matter what lube you use. My saw is 25 yrs old....never broken a chain...worn a LOT out...


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## fabsroman (Jul 14, 2006)

Yep, rocks, dirt, and good old barbed wire will put a hurting on a fine chainsaw chain. For those of you reading this post and scratching your head wondering how barbed wire is part of the problem, I cut a lot of wood from some pretty old farms and these trees just grow right beside and around the barbed wire. When they are cut down, the wire is inside them. I don't come across it often, but when I do it puts a damper on the day if I don't notice it ahead of time and am unfortunate enough to cut through it.


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## C-40 (Feb 4, 2004)

*just toooo funny...*

The idea that you need a special oil to work at ambient temperature is truly funny. Engine wear occuring on cold starts is primarily due to the oil draining off critical surfaces like the cylinder walls while sitting overnight and the lack of flow due to the oil's thickness when cold, not because the oil doesn't lubricate well until it's hot. Multiweight oils address the cold flow problem. That's why most modern engines specify 5W-30 oil and not straight 30 weight. Excessive heat will most certainly cause the failure of an engine due to high temperature breakdown of the oil. That's where synthetics shine. They can provide adequate lubrication at higher temperatures.

Bicycles chains don't transmit much power and rotate at very slow speeds, so their lubricant requirements are not that critical. Abrasive wear due to road grit is their primary enemy.

If hundreds of cyclists using homebrew with excellent results doesn't convince you to try it, then go to your local shop and buy an $8, 4-ounce bottle of specialty lube. I can guarantee you that it won't work any better than a few cents worth of homebrew, but if it make you feel good, great. For the price of these specialty lubes, I hope you get a lot more than the 5-6,000 miles I can get from a chain.


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## ChuckUni (Jan 2, 2003)

Bike chains and engines are poor comparisons anyhow, being an engine is forced oil under pressure and a chain is not. An engine that looses oil pressure will kill itself in seconds, even if there is still oil on the bearings, as it's not being force fed a film of oil to "ride" on. For a chain, an oil that can stay in place would be good. They certainly don't spin all that fast but ,because of this, they do have to handle a lot of tension/torque (whatever you want to call it), especially with small front chainrings, for their size. 

Dirt is bad though. Which is why I stopped doing the home brew/prolink method. It def loves the dirt, it sucks in dusty conditions. This may not matter much depending on your conditions and how often you oil.


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## Touch0Gray (May 29, 2003)

doesn't have to be barbed wire...any old wire will do.....LOL...I haven't hit wire for..............................weeks...LOL

frozen ground is as good as a rock....and a frozen gravel driveway......well....still in all, not to intentionally cause thread-drift.....several chains died ...well lubricated.....


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## C-40 (Feb 4, 2004)

*exactly....*



ChuckUni said:


> Bike chains and engines are poor comparisons anyhow, being an engine is forced oil under pressure and a chain is not. An engine that looses oil pressure will kill itself in seconds, even if there is still oil on the bearings, as it's not being force fed a film of oil to "ride" on. For a chain, an oil that can stay in place would be good. They certainly don't spin all that fast but ,because of this, they do have to handle a lot of tension/torque (whatever you want to call it), especially with small front chainrings, for their size.
> 
> Dirt is bad though. Which is why I stopped doing the home brew/prolink method. It def loves the dirt, it sucks in dusty conditions. This may not matter much depending on your conditions and how often you oil.


Some folks try homebrew an don't find that it meets their needs or wants. I ride on fairly dirty roads in the spring and fall, with all the sand on the roads, but I relube after nearly every ride, or 40 miles or more. It only take me a couple of minutes and keeps the chain reasonably clean if wiped thoroughly at each lubrication. If you expect 2-300 miles from a lubing, then a mix that's a lot heavier than I use is needed. Some people use 80/90 weight gear lube in their home brew. Never tried it myself. Real dusty conditions or MTB riding may require a dry lube, but those need frequent application too.

The only thing I don't know is how people determine how long their lube lasts. Relubing only after a chain squeaks is a very bad idea, IMO. That would mean to me that the chain needed lubrication at least one ride earlier. The thing that is often overlooked is the intrusion of dirt. A chain might not squeak, but dirt mixed with oil won't squeak either. A dirt and oil mix makes a nice grinding paste to wear out a chain. I worked for years with lapping processes designed specifically to remove metal silently and precisely. Lapping is a done with a mix of abrasive and oil.


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## Touch0Gray (May 29, 2003)

fabsroman said:


> That is a terrible use of extra virgin olive oil. Me, I prefer melting down some Crisco in a pot and dipping the chain in it. Man, is that chain smooth after that, and the layer of Crisco acts just like White Lightning in keeping the dirt from actually reaching the chain's moving parts.
> 
> Hopefully, somebody doesn't read this and think we are serious. I remember wondering if you guys were joking about this "home brew" stuff.



4 and 20 chain links, baked in a pie..........................


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## benchpress265 (Nov 7, 2006)

*Lets call a spade a spade here, WD 40 has now applications as a bike chain lubricant*

The issue really is that WD 40 has no application as a bike chain lubricant. I think that is how the debate started. And to make statements that it is a lubricant for bike chains is rediculous! And even more to sway cyclist to use it is just plain irresponsible!


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## California L33 (Jan 20, 2006)

benchpress265 said:


> I am glad you mentioned exploding, WD 40 does
> 
> http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-3874058244391438463


"Hello, warranty department? I put some WD-40 on my chain and my bike blew up. Is that covered?"


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## brujenn (Nov 26, 2007)

*I vote for cheap in large quantities*

I ride a lot in bad weather. My chain gets caked with grit, which I hose off, and terry towel dry. Then I flush with wd40 or a store brand (whatever is cheapest), spin/wipe with a terry towel, repeat wd flush and wipe. Let sit overnight, POUR on a liberal dose of cheap 3 in 1 right before riding the next day. So far I have 800,000,000 miles on this one chain.


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## benchpress265 (Nov 7, 2006)

I went back to cycling 2 years ago, I cycled when I was a kid and teen. I took bikes apart when I was 8, lets see that would be about 1958. A bike is a simple machine. Mechanically not much of a challange to tune or repair. I have spent a great deal of my career in manufacturing plants trouble shooting and repairing equipment (bearing, gears, chains, hydraulics, compressors, transmission, electric motors, combustion engines, steam power, etc) A bike is no big deal. But again that is not the issue.

The issue was the use of WD-40 as a bike chain lubricant. And again in my view it is a miss application of the product.

Your veiw is that it is an application for the product. Yet you tell people that there view is wrong, I won't go over some of your choices of words to put people down like "baloney" to show that you are the expert on this matter and they know crap about it. You don't know crap about it either.

In reality you are not and cannot support in a scientific manner your claims. I again challange you to have Campy and or Shimano endorse any of your home brewed methods including WD-40. I don't believe that they will, and I do believe that their engineering departments and the engineering departments of chain oil manufactures know a lot more then you about bike chains and how to lubricate them. 

In fact I would challange you to have WD-40 make that claim. Which I have not found yet.

Now again all you home brew guys and WD-40 guys can use what every you want on you bike chains, hey it is your bike chain. But don't lead other cyclist down your path and make statements that it it is a miracle lubricant (when it is not). Or make statements like I got 2,000 mile on my chain from the stuff, hell if you used an oil designed for the chain you might have gotten 10,000 mile on the chain.

I need concrete proof which you will never be able to get. Your not an expert on lubrication. You may be a good mechanic, I am not disputing the fact that you can take a bike apart, hey even that young kid in that video can (must be easy right, cause what does he know, he is just a young kid). It is just that his view differs from yours and he is young. But I think I would listen to him before I would take advice from you.


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## danl1 (Jul 23, 2005)

fabsroman said:


> Dan,
> 
> Are you talking about an actual shop, like a business, or are you referring to the home mechanic? I have put solvent soaked shop towels in the trash on occassion, and now you have me worried that I might be looking at burning down the house. How much should I worry about this in my garage with a rag or two here and there. When I refer to rag, I am referring to the blue shop towels that come on a roll like Bounty paper towels.
> 
> If this is something I should worry about, what type of air tight container should I purchase to eliminate the worry? Trash pickup is every Monday, Wednesday, and Saturday, so would I be better off just putting them out in the trash whenever I have them?


A rag / paper towel or two isn't too likely to cause a problem, and some hydrocarbons are worse than others for this. Everyday stuff isn't likely to be a problem. It's when you get a number of soaked rags in a pile that things start to get risky. Traditional shop rags (the often red cloth type) are more risky, both because they absorb more, and because of a slightly greater possibility for metal shavings captured in the weave. Metal shavings help cause the problem in some circumstances, as if there are different metals and the liquid is conductive, a sort of 'battery' can be created that is another cause of spontaneous combustion.

I say 'another' because of the reference to linseed oil. That's a straightforward oxidation reaction that can create enough heat to cause trouble. That sort of reaction is less likely with oil-on-paper. It's possible, but our normal one-or-two in the trash aren't a worry.


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## Qstick333 (Jul 21, 2004)

Although I am hesitant to post as I am sure I will just be another in a long series of moron's you have dealt with.....Does a bicycle chain really require so much? Unlike a car engine, the chain is made and known to be highly expendable and relatively inexpensive. Squirt something on it and move on with your life. I prefer either prolink or homebrew (3-1) every 150 miles, but there are dozens, if not more, of equally qualified products, and if used frequently enough, i believe WD40 is one of them.

Do you really need to be a "lubrication engineer" for a freaking bike chain? I don't call my HVAC engineer to help me turn on a thermostat or the structural guy to help with the birdfeeder my wife wants.......


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## Cruzer2424 (Feb 8, 2005)

brujenn said:


> So far I have 800,000,000 miles on this one chain.


haha. Speaking of which, I saw a chain that has about 22,000 miles on it. If you stick a white piece of paper behind it, you can see light poking through.

The teeth on the rings/cassette looked like crap, but the dude still rode it.


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## Mr. Versatile (Nov 24, 2005)

I repeat:

It just astonishes me that so much time and energy can be used on what to lube your chain with. People will stand around for hours and argue about this. This is not rocket science people. We're talking about bicycle chains. Lube them with whatever you want. 

Now shut the f*** up, and lets go ride.


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## fabsroman (Jul 14, 2006)

Its just amusing, that is all. Kind of like talking about sports or life in general. Its just sports and life, but we talk about it anyway. LOL

If I could get out on the bike, I wouldn't be typing behind this computer.


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## Mr. Versatile (Nov 24, 2005)

California L33 said:


> "Hello, warranty department? I put some WD-40 on my chain and my bike blew up. Is that covered?"


:lol: LOL!!:lol:


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## Mr. Versatile (Nov 24, 2005)

brujenn said:


> I ride a lot in bad weather. My chain gets caked with grit, which I hose off, and terry towel dry. Then I flush with wd40 or a store brand (whatever is cheapest), spin/wipe with a terry towel, repeat wd flush and wipe. Let sit overnight, POUR on a liberal dose of cheap 3 in 1 right before riding the next day. So far I have 800,000,000 miles on this one chain.


I call BS!! It's impossible to have that many miles on a chain. The absolute max you can get is 200,000,000 miles. Freakin' liars!


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## danl1 (Jul 23, 2005)

Qstick333 said:


> Do you really need to be a "lubrication engineer" for a freaking bike chain? I don't call my HVAC engineer to help me turn on a thermostat or the structural guy to help with the birdfeeder my wife wants.......


Dude, you really know how to live on the edge. Do you have any idea what you might be doing to your furnace? Oh, the horror!!! 


BP*1*65: you are better at lying about your 1RM's than your engineering creds. Be useful if you could keep your corporations consistant from one lie to the next. Anyway...

If you had a moment of sense, you would have already pulled the MSDS for WD-40 and your favorite product, browsed up the CAS numbers, dismissed the stuff that was obviously fairy dust in both, and found that they both are mainly mineral oil, petroleum-based light lubricating oil, and (usually) a bit of Naptha to speed the evaporation rate.

To put it another, more blunt way, you suggest that everyone are a bunch of sheep, yet you offer nothing at all substantive that makes your favorite wonder lube so superior, or WD-40 so pathetic - other than repeating interweb ka-ka. If you had the slightest fraction of the qualifications you claim, you wouldn't shame yourself by your posts to date. 

To be clear, I'm not saying WD-40 is terrific as a bike lube, because I personally don't think it is. However, the reason I say that is because I _have _verified the various formulations to the extent possible, and feel it has _too much _oil relative to the 'wonder lubes' sold specifically for bike chains. That makes it gunk up too quickly for my applications. OTOH, I kinda like the addition of the Stoddard solvent. Could help with the road tar from the fresh chip-seals I occasionally hit.

As for your attendant worry that it degreases the chain (and belief that it's somehow a bad thing) you should realize that is the basic as-designed mode of lubrication for White Lightning, Pro-link, Boeshield, and the various homebrew concoctions. The solvent helps flush the crap from the chain and move the new oil in, then evaporates, leaving fresh lube right where it needs to be. Any oil with enough viscosity to meaningfully lube the chain is too thick to get into the rollers without this technique. 

Another revelation of your ignorance is the worry about paint. Once cured, the enamels, powder coats, and epoxies used for bike finish are unaffected by these solvents. 

In all, your rantings against a particular product have nothing to back them up, while the notions here for (either WD-40 or home brew) are based on the solid experience of the 'specific' chain-lube manufacturers themselves, adapted slightly. You demand proof of a negative, yet offer no positive proof to rebut.

Been fun. I'm off to do something more useful, like poke my eye out with a fork.


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## eodusa (Oct 8, 2006)

Any try tetra lube?
I use it on my guns all the time.


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## fabsroman (Jul 14, 2006)

Is it any good on your guns? I use Hoppes and Beretta Oil on mine, and that seems to work. Come to think of it, I should try them on my chain, but they cost as much as the specialty bike chain oil. Saw a guy at the clays range using lithium grease on his over/under, so I started doing the same thing. It works great for when the gun gets hot.


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## LO^OK (Feb 1, 2008)

fabsroman said:


> .
> 
> Look, I just paid $300 for an ultrasonic cleaner, and most people would think I am out of my mind for doing so.


Actually using an ultrasonic cleaner for chain maintenance is probably the cleverest idea I ever read on these forums. There are smaller and cheaper UC used in Dental labs, and plenty on the second hand market for even less money. Thanks for the great idea! :thumbsup:


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## Touch0Gray (May 29, 2003)

Qstick333 said:


> .....or the structural guy to help with the birdfeeder my wife wants.......


let it be on your head when the bird gets hurt trying to feed his poor little babies......honestly.............some people.....


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## benchpress265 (Nov 7, 2006)

*more fuel (or solvent)for the fire*

http://www.rei.com/learn/Cycling/rei/learn/cycle/bkchainf


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## benchpress265 (Nov 7, 2006)

*If you are really serious about chain cleaning*

http://www.sheldonbrown.com/chainclean.html


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## benchpress265 (Nov 7, 2006)

*Searching but still have not found anything positive about WD40 and bike chains*

http://www.bicyclesouth.com/squeak.htm


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## MIN in PDX (Nov 29, 2007)

Now something of more importance: what lube should I use for the private bits?


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## California L33 (Jan 20, 2006)

MIN in PDX said:


> Now something of more importance: what lube should I use for the private bits?


WD-40


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## Mr. Versatile (Nov 24, 2005)

MIN in PDX said:


> Now something of more importance: what lube should I use for the private bits?


 Your bike has private bits?


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## Touch0Gray (May 29, 2003)

I'm still worried about the baby birds


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## Qstick333 (Jul 21, 2004)

LOL - Typical behavior on my part as the weather gets warmer is that my wife's requests get put off until next winter -they are safe - for now..

Bwaaahahaaaahaaa.....


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## Touch0Gray (May 29, 2003)

Qstick333 said:


> LOL - Typical behavior on my part as the weather gets warmer is that my wife's requests get put off until next winter -they are safe - for now..
> 
> Bwaaahahaaaahaaa.....



whew...so I can sleep tonight.......


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## fabsroman (Jul 14, 2006)

Yeah, I thought about it when I saw my wife's ultrasonic jewelry cleaner. I thought about dropping the chain in that thing, but knew my wife would kill me. So, I did a search on them and found that a lot of bike shops use ultrasonic cleaning as a selling point to their customers. I found that Crest Ultrasonics made a machine "specialized" for bike parts. Problem is that it is around $2,000, and I wasn't willing to pay that kind of money for one. Plus, it was pretty large (i.e., and entire crankset could fit into it).

I did a search on here and saw that TouchOGray mentioned using one, so I sent him a PM and/or I asked him a question in that thread. Can't really remember. He pointed me to a Chicago Tools ultrasonic that costs somewhere around $150. It didn't have heat and the grate at the bottom was too open to hold the chain, so I went with the Crest for $300 for the heat, in case I need it, and the stainless steel basket that came with it. So far, I'm pretty happy with it.


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## Touch0Gray (May 29, 2003)

fabsroman said:


> Yeah, I thought about it when I saw my wife's ultrasonic jewelry cleaner. I thought about dropping the chain in that thing, but knew my wife would kill me. So, I did a search on them and found that a lot of bike shops use ultrasonic cleaning as a selling point to their customers. I found that Crest Ultrasonics made a machine "specialized" for bike parts. Problem is that it is around $2,000, and I wasn't willing to pay that kind of money for one. Plus, it was pretty large (i.e., and entire crankset could fit into it).
> 
> I did a search on here and saw that TouchOGray mentioned using one, so I sent him a PM and/or I asked him a question in that thread. Can't really remember. He pointed me to a Chicago Tools ultrasonic that costs somewhere around $150. It didn't have heat and the grate at the bottom was too open to hold the chain, so I went with the Crest for $300 for the heat, in case I need it, and the stainless steel basket that came with it. So far, I'm pretty happy with it.



Oh sure...blame me...LOL


subliminal message (steam cleaner)


LOL


I use both for my work and NEED them....I have 3 ultrasonics, the old weak one is for bike parts now....


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## Mr Wood (Feb 23, 2006)

fabsroman said:


> like how a bullet drops over time


ever try to argue the point of how a bullet fired from a gun horizontal to the ground will hit the ground at the same time as one you dropped? It's incomprehensible to people who just can't grasp the fact that gravity is a constant. It's also one of my favourite things to discuss.


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## Touch0Gray (May 29, 2003)

Mr Wood said:


> ever try to argue the point of how a bullet fired from a gun horizontal to the ground will hit the ground at the same time as one you dropped? It's incomprehensible to people who just can't grasp the fact that gravity is a constant. It's also one of my favourite things to discuss.


 Yeah I had an argument with gravity the weekend before last.....gravity won


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## fabsroman (Jul 14, 2006)

Most people cannot understand that concept. Try using something that weighs more than a bullet. How about a 25 lb. steel weight. That can really screw with somebody's mind.


Our physics professor gave us a problem where the gun was zeroed at the muzzle and a monkey was hanging from a tree 100 yards away. If the monkey let go of the branch and started falling at the same time you pulled the trigger, where would you have to aim to hit the monkey. The answer was that you would have to aim right at the monkey just before he let go of the branh, because the bullet and the monkey would be falling at the same rate. I would guess that gravity wouldn't start working effecting the bullet's drop until it exited the muzzle, but how long could that take?


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## Touch0Gray (May 29, 2003)

fabsroman said:


> Most people cannot understand that concept. Try using something that weighs more than a bullet. How about a 25 lb. steel weight. That can really screw with somebody's mind.
> 
> 
> Our physics professor gave us a problem where the gun was zeroed at the muzzle and a monkey was hanging from a tree 100 yards away. If the monkey let go of the branch and started falling at the same time you pulled the trigger, where would you have to aim to hit the monkey. The answer was that you would have to aim right at the monkey just before he let go of the branh, because the bullet and the monkey would be falling at the same rate. I would guess that gravity wouldn't start working effecting the bullet's drop until it exited the muzzle, but how long could that take?



Here I am worried about the baby bird, only find out you are shooting at some poor monkey....I HOPE YOU MISS....

btw monkeys don't make good pets


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## fabsroman (Jul 14, 2006)

I don't miss too often. Luckily, I only shoot fully grown birds and mammals.


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## Touch0Gray (May 29, 2003)

fabsroman said:


> I don't miss too often. Luckily, I only shoot fully grown birds and mammals.


physics and accounting....what no biology?.....methinks a monkey is a mammal....

lol.......and not a lot around here..


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## fabsroman (Jul 14, 2006)

No disagreement about the monkey being a mammal. Just saying that I don't shoot BABY birds or mammals, or BABY monkeys for that matter. I've got a yellow lab and some fish as pets, and I have no intention of ever getting a monkey as a pet. I heard they can throw some pretty nasty stuff around. No thank you!!!!!!!!!!!!

When I went to law school, I had to empty my brain of all the biology I learned in high school. Of course, my wife and all her siblings are in the medical field, so I have no clue what they are ever talking about.


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## Forrest Root (Dec 22, 2006)

Mr Wood said:


> e...fact that gravity is a constant. It's also one of my favourite things to discuss.


Well, not necessarily. The mass of a graviton is tied to the diameter of the Universe, and since we live in an ever expanding universe, the mass of the graviton is continually decreasing. And we won't even begin to discuss what happens in relativistic frames of reference.


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## fabsroman (Jul 14, 2006)

Yeah, that sounds about as clear to me as my teammates talking about power numbers today via e-mail. Both gave me a headache and I still don't understand them. Kind of reminds me of pre-cal when the teacher was trying to teach me that 1+1 doesn't equal 2. Something about imaginary numbers, but that is all I can remember from that horror show.


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## gatorling (Jun 25, 2008)

fabsroman said:


> I took a shot at the Physics Promiseland in high school when I took AP Physics, but I had to drop it because I dropped AP Calculus which I was struggling in, and I needed to know the Calculus to do the Physics. I stayed in the Physics class till the end of the semester, and then just decided it was too tough. Took business calculus in college which was a synch. I still remember some of the equations from physics, but they are the basic ones, like how a bullet drops over time, how to calculate distance traveled based on acceleration and constant speed thereafter. That might be about all I remember.



You hardly need to know calculus for physics.
Plus what do you learn in AP Calc anyways? Limits, derivatives and integrals. Maybe you'll even learn the Taylor series and they'll give you some simple differential equations to memorize.

Most of Physics comes from manipulating a system of equations and the ability to problem solve.

Math, for me at least, changes drastically when you transition from high school math (plug and chug) to calculus (which is more like solving a puzzle)


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## benchpress265 (Nov 7, 2006)

Oh boy the lube-ologist have surfaced again and 1950ish Water Displacement trial #40 circuit board cleaner is at the top of the list again! Why don't you also try liquid wrench L4, Krylon Penetrating oil, CRC 3-36, or LPS LST to name a few more fine products.

I believe that Liquid Wrench has a claim out that they are much better then WD-40:mad2: 


http://www.gunk.com/webassets/word_documents/L412_COMPETITION.doc

I think I will still stick with Prolink!


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## gande_bike (Feb 28, 2006)

Olive oil does remove the Cat 5 tats from your calf though (or anywhere else you happen to brush against your chain).


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## fabsroman (Jul 14, 2006)

Lordy, this thread is kind of old. I barely even remember the posts I made in it. I have found a great way to clean my chains on the bike. I spray them down with mineral spirits, and wipe them clean. They look half decent afterward. Every month or two I run them through an ultrasonic cleaner and they come out just great.

For chain lube, I use home brew or Pro-Link.

The cost of a chain a year, or even two chains a year, isn't worth all the debate and fuss to me. I just hate having a dirty or noisy drivetrain, and I especially hate having a dirty AND noisy drivetrain.


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## Mr. Versatile (Nov 24, 2005)

IMO, those who make claims either for or against WD 40, (or any other lube for that matter) should be made to prove them.


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## MIN in PDX (Nov 29, 2007)

you clown. you bump a dead thread to say that? 



gatorling said:


> You hardly need to know calculus for physics.
> Plus what do you learn in AP Calc anyways? Limits, derivatives and integrals. Maybe you'll even learn the Taylor series and they'll give you some simple differential equations to memorize.
> 
> Most of Physics comes from manipulating a system of equations and the ability to problem solve.
> ...


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## fabsroman (Jul 14, 2006)

And then you bump it again after it had been sitting for a week or more. Maybe this will be the thread that never ends. LOL


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## DrSmile (Jul 22, 2006)

Forrest Root said:


> I've been known to dabble in physics and engineering, but still I've never done any of these things:
> 
> _3 years mechanical design engineer BFG, 2 years Tire building Department area engineer (BFG). 26 years Plant and Manfacturing Engineer LNP Engineering Plastics/GE Plastics. Last 3 years Manufacturing Engineer Infinity Compounding (part owner in the company)​_
> Heck, I've never even played a rheologist on TV. Still I'm quasi sure that slippery film left on a surface a few days after it's been WD40'd might be a lubricant. Golly, do solvents stick around that long after the chemicals they've carried have been applied?


No it's quite apparent that your major was trolling. And wow you are just SOOO good at it too!

Please do not feed him.


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## Jeff G (Jul 22, 2005)

Hate to keep this thread going but I learned my lesson the hard way. I will never ever again use Simply Green, mineral spirits, kerosene or any other caustic cleaning product. For those who swear by them I can only advise to put on the minimal amount and then remove it as soon as it goes on. After using mineral spirits on my chain, I can't keep enough lube on it to prevent the formation of surface rust, a slightly dirty chain I can tolerate, rust is wear I draw the line. By the way, never ever remove the factory lube from a new chain when you install it, don't even add any of your preferred lube to it unitl it statrs to make noise. Off to the LBS this weekend for the new chain, lesson learned the hard way.


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## fabsroman (Jul 14, 2006)

My mtb chain has some rust on it and needs to be replaced, but that is because of lack of maintenance and use of it for years. I thought most road chains nowadays are aluminum, but I could be wrong about that. I have used mineral spirits in a ultrasonic cleaner for my chains and my cassettes, and there isn't one hint of rust. However, I would think that is because they are aluminum.

By the way, I wouldn't tolerate a rusty chain either. The mtb is due for a major tuneup this winter.


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## gatorling (Jun 25, 2008)

Jeff G said:


> Hate to keep this thread going but I learned my lesson the hard way. I will never ever again use Simply Green, mineral spirits, kerosene or any other caustic cleaning product. For those who swear by them I can only advise to put on the minimal amount and then remove it as soon as it goes on. After using mineral spirits on my chain, I can't keep enough lube on it to prevent the formation of surface rust, a slightly dirty chain I can tolerate, rust is wear I draw the line. By the way, never ever remove the factory lube from a new chain when you install it, don't even add any of your preferred lube to it unitl it statrs to make noise. Off to the LBS this weekend for the new chain, lesson learned the hard way.


Wow that really suprises me. I've been using mineral spirits to clean my chain for several months now and have never ran into any sort of problem. I don't even rinse my chain off with water after using spirits, just a quick wipe down and re-lube.

What's especially strange is that many people use mineral spirits as a thinner for home-brew lubes. It's a petroleum distillate and, as far as I know, isn't caustic.


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## C-40 (Feb 4, 2004)

*more baloney...*

This is ridiculous. I've been using mineral spirits and oil as a chain lube for at least 8 years and never got a speck of rust on any chain. You can leave leave a chain soaking in mineral spirits for as long as you like and it won't hurt a thing.

No only that, when I clean a chain, I first put it in a bottle of mineral spirits, shake for a minute or so, drain the the solvent into a storage bottle for reuse, then give the chain a good shake in a bottle of hot soapy water. After that, I rinse with hot water, wipe the excess water off the chain and then apply homebrew. I never get any rust.

The idea of retaining the factory lube is also nonsense. I apply homebrew to a chain when it's new and wipe all of that dirt attracting crap off the exterior of the chain. I get a lot olonger chain life than the average person, using this technique.


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## Jeff G (Jul 22, 2005)

I'll end this debate by saying whatever works for each individual is O.K. with me. I hope that most would agree that there are many theories/methods out there about how to "properly" clean a chain. I was just relaying the fact that mineral spirits didn't work so well for me. I also know that I need to remove the factory installed lube/grease from the SIDES of the chain, but I won't add anything to the links until they have a few miles on them. Anyway use what works best for you and keep those chains clean and running smoothly and quietly.


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## sometimerider (Sep 21, 2007)

Jeff G said:


> Hate to keep this thread going but I learned my lesson the hard way. I will never ever again use Simply Green, mineral spirits, kerosene or any other caustic cleaning product. For those who swear by them I can only advise to put on the minimal amount and then remove it as soon as it goes on. After using mineral spirits on my chain, I can't keep enough lube on it to prevent the formation of surface rust, a slightly dirty chain I can tolerate, rust is wear I draw the line.


Mineral spirits and kerosene are NOT caustic. SG might be, but if it's thoroughly removed after the cleaning you should be ok even with that.

(Personally I don't like the idea of any water-based chain cleaner or rinser. I think it's too hard to completely remove it before lubing. I use diesel for the cleaning phase and then only wipe it down before lubing with (mineral spirits based) home brew. Never see rust, but then I don't live in a rainy (except during winter) or humid area.)


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## California L33 (Jan 20, 2006)

fabsroman said:


> I thought most road chains nowadays are aluminum...


Most are steel.

Edit: I don't think any are aluminum, but you can get titanium for about $300- and all you're buying is lightness. As I understand it they're not as durable as steel because they're more brittle.


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## California L33 (Jan 20, 2006)

Jeff G said:


> After using mineral spirits on my chain, I can't keep enough lube on it to prevent the formation of surface rust...


A couple of light rust spots on the rollers is no big deal if you can't feel it with your fingers. Seal it with Boeshield or the equivalent and you're good to go. Chains don't come with lubricant on them. It's rust preventative like Cosmoline which isn't a great lubricant because it's sticky and attracts dust.


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## Bill Silverman (Apr 2, 2007)

I've used the Park chain cleaning tool for years, mostly using Simple Green or Finish Line degreaser. I run it with the degreaser, then do two additional runs with plain water to clean off any residue. I dry the chain off by running it through a clean rag, then lube with Tri-Flow liquid (just one drop per roller). No problems, no noise, chain is supple and quiet. Don't know what all the fuss is about. 

I'm not a big fan of using aerosol lubricant on the chain: the stuff goes all over the place and the chain winds up picking up all kinds of road crud.


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## fabsroman (Jul 14, 2006)

Then I am utterly astounded that my Campy chains have never rusted because I have never wiped them down when they got wet. I guess I am going to have to start wiping them down after I finish riding in the rain.


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## Touch0Gray (May 29, 2003)

fabsroman said:


> Then I am utterly astounded that my Campy chains have never rusted because I have never wiped them down when they got wet. I guess I am going to have to start wiping them down after I finish riding in the rain.


 most oil does not wash of in the rain... an aluminum chain would break around the pins REAL fast......and bend, and twist......wouldn't be pretty....


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## fabsroman (Jul 14, 2006)

The more I think about it, the less sense an aluminum chain makes. Oh well, I can't be right all the time. LOL


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## Touch0Gray (May 29, 2003)

fabsroman said:


> The more I think about it, the less sense an aluminum chain makes. Oh well, I can't be right all the time. LOL


ALL the time?........man....I'd settle for 25%.... (ask my wife and kids, I am NEVER allowed to be right) Interestingly enough.....with my work, I HAVE to be right 100% (as do you I would assume)...go figure...


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## MANTEIGA (Sep 26, 2008)

MIN in PDX said:


> I will certainly give that a shot. I bought the scrubber do-hickey out of curiosity even though I've gone 10 years without using one or applying degreaser to a single chain link. I am convinced that degreaser does more harm than good on a chain by displacing beneficial lube from hidden areas.


-------------------------

BAD IDEA!!
Sand will cause your derailleur to fail. Sand is quite an unspoken enemy to drivetrains. 
(sand is harder than steel. IT WILL SCRATCH THE SH*T OUT OF EVERYTHING THAT GRINDS AGAINST IT!! - another way of looking at sand is it has the same abrasive qualities as broken glass, sand+heat=glass!)
The problem is the sand mixes with your lube and creates a mixture of sandy lube that gets everywhere..... the hidden area's need to be cleaned out!
I use a brand new ULTEGRA SL groupo, and my chain fell off shifting last week from this very reason, i could even feel a scratching sensation from the sand with normal cadence and 
shifting.
If the lube never got dirty, you wouldn't have to clean your cogs. But since we don't all race in indoor tracks, lube needs to be purged and replaced.
It sound's to me that your chain has an issue, not the fact that you cleaned it!?
I race in Canada. We have a product here called FINISHLINE MULTI DEGREASER. It';s a bio degreaser, and it's safe for even Nude Carbon!! 
:thumbsup: :thumbsup: :thumbsup:


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## jmlapoint (Sep 4, 2008)

I see Home Brews mentioned quite often, and a ratio of 3-4:1.
Is the 3-4 Parts Oil or Spirits?
I would assume if you are going for a Dry Lube it would be 4-Parts Spirits to 1-Part Oil?
Thanks for any replys.


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## ToF (Jan 18, 2008)

Touch0Gray said:


> ALL the time?........man....I'd settle for 25%.... (ask my wife and kids, I am NEVER allowed to be right) Interestingly enough.....with my work, I HAVE to be right 100% (as do you I would assume)...go figure...


Do we have the same family??


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## gatorling (Jun 25, 2008)

You always want more Mineral Sprits in your homebrew than oil.
I go with a 3:1 MS to motor oil. Works fine for me.

Also to clean my chain I fill up an old gatorade bottle with mineral spirits stick the chain in , shake and let soak for 30 minutes then shake again. It flushes out all the crap and since I re-lube using a mineral spirits based homebrew there is no adverse effect. It's kinda like using a super light lube to clean your chain.

I use simple green to clean my cassette since there aren't any crevices for water to hide in.

I do chain/cassette cleans once every 3-10 weeks depending on training volume. I'll usually try to clean it out after a ride in heavy rain too.


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## yater (Nov 30, 2006)

What mineral spirits are you guys using? I usually have a few oz. of mobil 1 left over after oil changes and would like to use it as chain lube.


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## keesue (Nov 11, 2004)

I don't know if this helps, but my car has chain-driven overhead cams. They are roller chains just like my bicycle chain. They are lubed by the engine oil. 
They have a service life of 100k miles. I think they generate a bit more torque than my legs. In my car, it specs 5w-30. So, I use a little of my spare motor oil after a clean with mineral spirits and let it sit overnight before my next ride. Seems to work pretty well. After each ride, my bike goes on the stand for a wipe down, an inspection and a chain clean/lube. Runs pretty well. (and the oil is cheap too)


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## jmlapoint (Sep 4, 2008)

Thanks for the useful info.
Never been much of a 'chain-man' until I started to read RBR.
Seems like an occassional wipe with MS and then application of 3-MS:1-Oil followed by a good Wipe-Down is a good way to go.
Most appreciated!


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## keesue (Nov 11, 2004)

jmlapoint said:


> Thanks for the useful info.
> Never been much of a 'chain-man' until I started to read RBR.
> Seems like an occassional wipe with MS and then application of 3-MS:1-Oil followed by a good Wipe-Down is a good way to go.
> Most appreciated!


A chain's worst enemies are dirt, water and lack of lube. Keeping it clean, water free and lubed is all that is required. I learned that a quick clean and a quick lube keeps the chain happy for the next day's ride. :thumbsup: (and using motor oil keeps my pocket happy  )


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