# Differences between older Look models?



## texbike

Does anyone have a link or know of a thread that highlights the differences between the older Look models like the KG 251, 261, 361, 381, 481, etc???

Man, they all seem to run together in an incomprehensible numerical soup. 

There have been a few great deals pop up recently on a couple of these models and they seem like a great bargain for the amount of engineering and competitive history that the brand has.

Any input on differences would be appreciated.

Thanks!

Texbike


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## edk

I thought the numbers have the following meaning KG XYZ (KG 381):
X is the generation (1, 2, 3 or 4)
Y is the quality of frame within generation and type of frame (higher number is more sophisticated frame)
Z is the type of frame (1 means carbon with alloy-lugs, 4 is alloy frame, 6 was carbon monobloque frame)


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## JJJamison

I'm no expert but I can tell you this:

KG381 and 481 are very similar - geometries are the same (traditional and relatively slack compared to the current models), both use VHM carbon with aluminum lugs and integrated headset, both utilize the same 26.0 seat post and integrated binder bolt design. These frames were made available in 1cm increments and tube sets were specifically designed for each frame size. According to LOOK, it took over 40 man-hours to build a single frame. The 481 is a bit lighter - patly due to the fork. You are correct in that these are very high quality frames and state of the art at the time - in fact the 381 was ridden to a number of TDF stage wins. 

The 361 also used aluminum lugs, but the carbon, I believe, was only HM. I am also pretty certain the steerer diameter was 1" and utilized a standard headset. 

That's pretty much the limit of my knowledge - hope this is helpful.


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## kreger

some more info dont know if it is pertinent 

i own a 461. so mid range 4 series - carbon tubes, aluminum lugs. the carbon is hr, the fork has a 1 1/8 inch aluminum steerer tube and it has a 27.2 seatpost


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## toonraid

The main difference between various KG models is in the composite make-up i.e. Carbon/Kevlar mix & type as well as Forks and of course frame weight. KG231, 241, 281, 361, 381, 451 all have 1" forks and 25mm seatposts while 461 & 481 have 1-1/8" forks (I may be wrong on 381's fork size as I have seen some advertized with 1-1/8) . My 231 came with a full threaded alu fork while I had unthreaded HSC3 forks on my 241 & 361 but not sure if it was standard on 241 as I got mine used. Some lower end models came with looks LDS forks which are carbon with alu steering tubes.

As for ride quality the earlier models were softer and heavier while the later ones lighter and stiffer - most sought after models are KG171, 381 & 481 due to their pro pedigree - some of the Credit Agricole were still using 481 in 07 Paris Roubaix (or was it 06?).


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## Dave Hickey

Toonraid nailed it....The only other thing I have to offer is the most of the KG models had round tubes except the 281( and maybe the 171, 271 ..I can't remeber) series. The 281 didn't have round tubes( the same applied to newer 381, 481, etc).. The tubes varied in shape and wall thickness


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## JJJamison

toonraid said:


> The main difference between various KG models is in the composite make-up i.e. Carbon/Kevlar mix & type as well as Forks and of course frame weight. KG231, 241, 281, 361, 381, 451 all have 1" forks and 25mm seatposts while 461 & 481 have 1-1/8" forks (I may be wrong on 381's fork size as I have seen some advertized with 1-1/8) . My 231 came with a full threaded alu fork while I had unthreaded HSC3 forks on my 241 & 361 but not sure if it was standard on 241 as I got mine used. Some lower end models came with looks LDS forks which are carbon with alu steering tubes.
> 
> As for ride quality the earlier models were softer and heavier while the later ones lighter and stiffer - most sought after models are KG171, 381 & 481 due to their pro pedigree - some of the Credit Agricole were still using 481 in 07 Paris Roubaix (or was it 06?).


KG381 definitely has 1-1/8" fork steerer - at least mine does.


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## texbike

Thanks for all of the input so far. 

I noticed that the 361/461 has a mono-stay rear with the seatbolt in the top tube in FRONT of the seattube. It also appears to use a 27.2 post vs the 25.0 that most of the others used.

I'm still not clear on all of the differences. It would be nice if there was a speadsheet that actually highlighted the differences. Is there such a beast out there?

I picked up a KG261 (from 2002?) last week. It has round tubes (on the three main tubes), aluminum lugs of course, 25.0 post, and a full carbon 1" fork with non-integrated headset. It rides nice. 

Texbike


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## The Green Hour

texbike said:


> Thanks for all of the input so far.
> 
> 
> I picked up a KG261 (from 2002?) last week. It has round tubes (on the three main tubes), aluminum lugs of course, 25.0 post, and a full carbon 1" fork with non-integrated headset. It rides nice.
> 
> Texbike


Correct.

Like mentioned before, the 261 is identical to the 281 except for the main tubes. The 261 used round HR tubes and the 281 used size specific shaped HM tubes. The forks differed, but the geometry, lugs and rear triangle were identical in both lines.

The KG261 is a very nice bike and should ride virtually identical to it's pro version 281. It was most likely a year or so older than 2002....I had my KG361 at that time.

The 251's (and lower) had slightly different geometries than the "pro" x61 and x81 series frames. All ride nice. I had a KG251, and have a KG361 and they are a little different, but not that noticable.... 

The KG251 was a great buy. I bought it on closeout from Excel in 2000 for $600. The "best bang for buck" frame I ever rode.:thumbsup:


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