# what to d with clincher rims that are difficult to mount tires on?



## tjjm36m3 (Mar 4, 2008)

Damn these Reynolds DV46 clinchers I got over a year ago. Sometimes it is nearly impossible to put on or even take off the tire from the rim. One time it took me more than half an hour to fix a flat while on the road and my thumbs were so bruised up afterwards that if I had another flat on that ride I highly doubt I would have been able to fix it. I brought them once to a LBS and even a mechanic there said these wheelsets are one of the hardest he ever had to mount tires on. And if I want put on Vittoria open corsas, forget about it. There's almost no way they are going in. I'm currently thinking about selling them and getting something much easier to put on. Like to know what others think. Is this inherit of carbon rims, or I'm a big wuss?


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## oily666 (Apr 7, 2007)

Campy Protons are a bit of a battle too. The only rims I can recall that I couldn't do with my bare hands. ﻿ Crank Bros. Speed Lever helps.


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## wankski (Jul 24, 2005)

some rims are definitely worse than others, and no it's not a carbon thing...

what makes a big difference is technique and the lever you are using...

does yours flex when you apply pressure to the tire bead? in that case, that will not do for a hard rim... you need a quality stiff lever that does not flex...

for reasonable money, look at the pedros levers, very good ones if bulky.... on the road, look at some steel cored ones like the surly.

cheap flexible levers just make it hell...


but i feel your pain.... tight rim interface is the main reason why i moved away from campy rims... it's maddening and so much better when my current wheels can easily be hand mounted. It drastically reduces the risk of pinching the replacement tube, which after spending 15-20mins of the side of the road is enough to send you over the edge...


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## Mike T. (Feb 3, 2004)

I wouldn't keep a rim that needed that much effort to remove/replace a tire. I can't imagine what positive benefits it would have to have for me to keep it.

I haven't used a tire lever in living memory (which goes back at least a couple of decades) to r&r a tire on my road, dirt road, track and mountain bikes - and that's with about 7 different tire makes. Most of my rims that make this possible for me are OpenPros. 'Nuff said. Why not just dump dysfunctional equipment?


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## dekindy (Jul 7, 2006)

Lay the tires in the warm sun or warm them in the clothes dryer before installation. Makes them more supple and easier to work with.


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## tlc4bikes (Dec 31, 2009)

I give free classes on maintenance (which includeds flats/tire removel/installing to anyone in the Raleigh NC area. Many tires for 700 rims may need tire levers for fast removel but few tires need tire levers for reinstsalling the tire. Technique and experience will help make installing a tire pretty easy. 

BTW -- if you apply so much pressure with your thumbs that the thumbs are bruised then you are using a bad thehnicque for that tire.


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## tjjm36m3 (Mar 4, 2008)

tlc4bikes said:


> BTW -- if you apply so much pressure with your thumbs that the thumbs are bruised then you are using a bad thehnicque for that tire.


I had always used my thumbs to roll the very last bit of the tire onto the rim. I normally don't want to use a tire lever to lever the last bit of tire on. The DV46c being a full carbon clincer I may fear that levers might deform the sidewall. But even with a tire lever, I still couldn't get the last lip of tire on to the rim and even broken two levers before.


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## tinman143 (Aug 14, 2009)

I can attest that these DV46UL wheels are a b!tch to mount and dismount a tire. PITA...

BUT, man are they a solid rim!


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## vortechcoupe (Jun 6, 2006)

thinner rim tape such as rox tape, or veloplugs will help. I wouldn't, and never had to, use tire lever to mount a tire.

Try using your palms, not your thumbs to mount the last bit. Roll it over with your palms, you have much more power with that then your thumbs. Finish at the valve stem, make sure the rest of the tire is as deep as poss in the rim valley.

I've mounted tubeless atoms on a kinlin 30 rim with 2 layers of yellow tape without a lever, even in stan's video he uses a lever. It's all in the technique. 

Last thing, DO NOT use those "tire jacker" lever deals that you hook on the rim and then it pulls the tire over. It could very easily break the rim.


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## Fixed (May 12, 2005)

*tires?*

I have found Zipp clinchers and Campy clinchers to be very hard to mount. However, some tires work much better than others, and a used tire, one that has already been mounted and inflated (stretched), will be easier. Might have to experiment with tires -- some are nearly impossible, and some go on much easier. Veloflex and Conti's aren't bad, but Michelins I completely gave up on.

One thing that helps is to use the little plastic rim plugs that replace rim strips. Excel sells them. It gives more room for the tire to stretch. http://www.excelsports.com/main.asp?page=8&description=Rim+Plug+for+8mm+holes+72ct&vendorCode=VELOCITY&major=1&minor=38


A technique I've found helpful on very hard to mount rims is this. Mount one bead. Then, slightly inflate the tube, then insert the valve and put the tube inside the tire all the way around. Then, start working the second bead in starting at the valve, but don't let is slip out. Work it all the way around. When you get back close to the valve, it will be hardest to insert. At that point, use a plastic tire lever to push the tube in and away from the opening. Work the bead in as far as you can, leaving an even amount on both sides of the valve. At this point, you can carefully use the tire lever to work the bead on, because the valve will hold the tube back and out of the opening, so you won't pinch the tube. Works for me every time without pinching a tube.


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## andresmuro (Dec 11, 2007)

tjjm36m3 said:


> Damn these Reynolds DV46 clinchers I got over a year ago. Sometimes it is nearly impossible to put on or even take off the tire from the rim. One time it took me more than half an hour to fix a flat while on the road and my thumbs were so bruised up afterwards that if I had another flat on that ride I highly doubt I would have been able to fix it. I brought them once to a LBS and even a mechanic there said these wheelsets are one of the hardest he ever had to mount tires on. And if I want put on Vittoria open corsas, forget about it. There's almost no way they are going in. I'm currently thinking about selling them and getting something much easier to put on. Like to know what others think. Is this inherit of carbon rims, or I'm a big wuss?


I can usually mount and dismount any tire w/o using levers and I am not particularly strong.

This is the technique.

Try to get all the air out of the tube.

Massage tire to the center of the rim bed by pinching and pushing sidewalls to the center of rim until tire feel sort of loose. This will create a bit of slack and since the center is slightly deeper, when you try to pull from one side, it will give you the space that you need. 

Grab tire opposite to the valve, try to lift a small section of sidewall with you fingers and work tire out of the rim with palms. This should release enough sidewall that you can remove tire. If ultra stubborn, you can use a lever. 

To re-install, never use levers cause you'll pinch the tube and you'll be flat again. Start by massaging tire into middle of rim and then you should have enough slack to get the entire tire into the rim. 

Another thing you can do it stand on one end of tire, grab tire from other end and pull. Try to work around the tire a little to stretch it slightly.


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## froze (Sep 15, 2002)

There is also a tool called the VAR that makes tough tire installation a breeze without a thought about pinching the tube, and it fits in a seat bag: http://www.cyclebasket.com/products.php?plid=m5b93s281p92&rs=gb


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## wankski (Jul 24, 2005)

personally i would not train on a rim you can not hand mount... when they are ultra tight u have far more chance to pinch the tube as u cannot guide and feed the tube fully in the clincher cavity as in particular bad cases, u can have the tire bead unmounted covering at least 1/4 of the circumference of the rim - using hard leavers only increases your chances of pinching the tube...

racing doesn't matter... any kind of flat ends ur race and u can take ur time remounting.

a good training rim would be something like an OP... even better are AC rims if you can get em, or i s'pose kinlins would be good... 32 in the rear, and hand mountable w/ conti gp4000s... great training combo... u can snap a spoke and not even rub the brake, u can hand mount tyres and its just an overall dependable, solid performing training wheelset.


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## wankski (Jul 24, 2005)

andresmuro said:


> I can usually mount and dismount any tire w/o using levers and I am not particularly strong.
> 
> ...
> To re-install, never use levers cause you'll pinch the tube and you'll be flat again. Start by massaging tire into middle of rim and then you should have enough slack to get the entire tire into the rim.
> ...


haha, when i worked at the LBS i could give you a range of rims and tyre combos that would make u eat your words... :thumbsup: 

honestly, after feeding the bead as far as it could go, u could often have at least 1/4 of the rim to go with no chance at all of pulling it over... looking at it you severely doubted it could be done!

streching manually in such cases with modern composite threads such as kevlar is an exercise in futility.


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## cxwrench (Nov 9, 2004)

tjjm36m3 said:


> I had always used my thumbs to roll the very last bit of the tire onto the rim. I normally don't want to use a tire lever to lever the last bit of tire on. The DV46c being a full carbon clincer I may fear that levers might deform the sidewall. But even with a tire lever, I still couldn't get the last lip of tire on to the rim and even broken two levers before.


as tlc said, thumbs are bad technique...use the palms of your hands, not your thumbs. the levers won't hurt the sidewall, but will more than likely pinch the tube. thin rim tape helps a ton. if you have a tight fit, don't even think about velox. ritchey snap-ons or stans tape works great


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## 6-Speed (Sep 9, 2010)

vortechcoupe said:


> Last thing, DO NOT use those "tire jacker" lever deals that you hook on the rim and then it pulls the tire over. It could very easily break the rim.


Never had any issue with the Koolstop Bead jack breaking my rims. The tool works great for re-installing GP4000s on my DT Swiss rims. The Park TL-10 shop tire tool works good for installing the first bead of a new tire onto these rims. Then I use the bead jack to finish mounting the last part of the second bead to the rim.

One day I may have to switch out the Velox tape with the alternatives that cxwrench suggested.


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## andresmuro (Dec 11, 2007)

wankski said:


> haha, when i worked at the LBS i could give you a range of rims and tyre combos that would make u eat your words... :thumbsup:
> 
> honestly, after feeding the bead as far as it could go, u could often have at least 1/4 of the rim to go with no chance at all of pulling it over... looking at it you severely doubted it could be done!
> 
> streching manually in such cases with modern composite threads such as kevlar is an exercise in futility.


Very likely you are right. However, most people won't even do this, and it makes a huge difference. If you are able to create some slack, even minimal, it will be easier to use a tire lever to dislodge the tire. There is a lever, I believe that it is made by topeak that hooks into the tire bead and into the hub. Then you work it all around and dislodges anything. 

To put it back on, I'm sure that you know that Hozan makes a tool that grabs the tires by the sidewalls and pulls the tire into the rim by creating leverage. You can use a vice grip wrench instead if no tool is at hand. 

Yet, I have been able to remove the most stubborn tires with the described hand method even when people tell me that they have an impossible combination. 

Sometimes you need to go around the rim a few times to properly dislodge the tire, and be patient in getting the tire out. But it works really well. I find that most people won't even do this and that tires often have a lot more clearance than people think. 

I often remove tires on rides even before people hand me their tire levers. People thin that I must be tarzan. I am really a wimp.


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## tom_h (May 6, 2008)

I have a Velocity Deep-V clincher training wheel that was quite difficult to install tires & tubes w/o pinching.

Replaced the velox rim tape, with Velocity's Veloplugs. MUCH easier mounting, and also less likely to pinch a tube. The tube slides around easier, than on the high-friction velox rim tape.

The Veloplugs were not in stock locally (LA metro area) ... I ended up ordering a bunch from www.Fairwheelbikes.com -- fast service & decent prices.


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## froze (Sep 15, 2002)

There are some cyclists that would argue, including me, that a tire that is more difficult to remove is less likely to come off the rim should the tire go flat while riding. I know from first hand experience that 70% of the time I had a flat with easy no tools needed tire and that tire flatted, it would come off the rim at least partially. Whereas with a tough to mount tire about 5% of the time would a tire come off or come off partially.

Usually after a tough new tire has been on the rim for awhile it's not so hard to install later when you have a flat because the tire has stretched a small amount. But I had to use Specialized Armadillo All Condition tires for awhile, and I would swear up a storm putting them on. Fortunately they would never flat so having to remove one on the side of the road only happened to me once and that because I rode till the cords started to show!


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## dasetton (Jun 28, 2008)

I have a pair of Reynolds Stratus Clinchers, same a DV46, that I bought used. I tried Conti GP4000s, and they were almost impossible to get on. I think it took an hour for each tire! I rode these for a bit, but was worried I would not be able to change a flat on the road.
I found an previously used Vittoria Open Corsa KX tire in my stash, and it slipped on rim EASILY without tools. I wasn't thrilled with the durability of this tire the first time I used it, but I thought I would give them another try, so I ordered a pair of CXs.
When I tried to put the CXs on, I had the same problem: impossible without tools, near impossible with. CR*P.
However, on a club ride, I asked someone with the same rims how they mount their tires. He explained that he pre-mounts on an easy to mount rim (in his case, Open Pros) for weeks or months, and then they become easy to mount on the carbon rims. He was running Conti GP4000s...
I tried it and was successful with the CXs. In my case, I used a DT 1.2 rim, which I was able to mount the CX by hand. I pumped it up to 145psi, and let it sit for a few days. I then transfered it to an Easton Wheel (which was almost as hard to mount as the Reynolds), which went on easily. A few days later, I tried it on the Reynolds, and Voila! Easy as pie. No tools, very little effort.
I am currently stretching the second CX, I expect no issues. The key I believe is pre-stretching at maximum pressure (145psi in the case of the Cxs). I don't know if it will work with the GP4000s; they have a max pressure of 120 psi. That is my next test, I will update when that is complete...


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