# Rate My Fail



## cpltomcat (Sep 12, 2011)

TL;DR - Skip to '@[email protected][email protected][email protected][email protected][email protected][email protected][email protected][email protected][email protected][email protected]'

Greetings ladies, gentlemen and fellow cyclists!

I am an idiot. My excitement has caused me to jump the gun a bit, and we all know how messy and embarrassing that can be... :blush2:

I've spent the last 12 months riding a Trek 4400 hardtail around in Japan. Mainly on roads. It was made more bearable by the lockout on the forks but you know, it's a MTB!

So, freed from the constraint that in the Land of the Rising Sun everybody rides single-speed step-through-framed half-ton lumps of steel with baskets and rusty chains, I came home to the UK eager to purchase a finer ride for myself.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not looking for a £2000 bike. Yet. I'm not as fit as I should be right now and I believe that I should work my ass off on an OK bike for six months to a year before I allow myself to...spunk my wad (?)...on something sexier. Something about it being the workman and not the tools that's important?


@[email protected][email protected][email protected][email protected][email protected][email protected][email protected][email protected][email protected][email protected]


I rashly decided to buy a 'Sunn Roader Racing Bike' from ebay co uk for the grand sum of £125.09. Google 'SUNN Roader Racing Bike 54C-C (Med)' if you'd like to see it. First result. 

I chose it because it was cheap (on the face of it), looks interesting (lol), and according to online calculators (my best bet without hitting up the LBS, which I will do soon) should fit me OK, allowing me to choose a better-fitting one next time. It is also unlikely to get taken away by some Twat In a Tracksuit (TIT).

So, how bad a decision was this on a scale of 1-10? Has anyone seen/heard of/ridden one of these things before? Should I get rid asap and get an entry-level roader from the LBS or is this a salvageable scenario?


PASS YOUR JUDGEMENT NOW! :thumbsup:






P.S. On a side note, search ebay co uk for 'Raleigh Team Banana Racing Light Weight Mountain Bike'...how is that a 'racing light-weight mountain bike'??? What does that even mean?


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## AndrwSwitch (May 28, 2009)

A good workman wearing the wrong size boots is not going to be very happy.

As long as the bike is safe, though, which can be a big "if" with really cheap bikes, it's not a bad thing to have a beater to take shopping etc. You'd probably do well to aim a bit higher with a bike for more ambitious riding.


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## bicyclerepairman (Mar 12, 2003)

Well, I fell for it and googled like you asked. Your post is the only thing that comes up, so I guess it is a fail.


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## JCavilia (Sep 12, 2005)

Doesn't seem too bad. I take it you haven't actually received it yet? Whether it was a good purchase depends on condition, and fit. Sounds like it may need a little work, but the parts mix is okay, if a hodgepodge. There was nothing wrong with RSX shifters, and the other stuff is functional. Check it out, adjust and lube, get some decent brake pads (koolstop?), see if it fits, go for a ride, and give us a report. It might be just what you need right now.


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## Camilo (Jun 23, 2007)

yea, I can't find it by "googling" (actually I don't use google, but regardless....). Maybe you can post a link w/ pics and specs?


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## cpltomcat (Sep 12, 2011)

Thanks for your responses guys! I was hoping that someone here with a lot more experience than me might say that it wasn't a COMPLETELY insane thing to do!

It arrives here on Thursday so I'll definitely post pics and more details on here for your perusal!

I'm sorry but as a new member I'm unable to post links so far! It says I need 10 posts, which I haven't made it to yet. I'll see what I can do about that and post ASAP. I'm very surprised that it didn't come up with those search terms! How about with double quotes?

Thanks for the specific hints - I've heard many good things about koolstops so I'll wham a few of these onand see where it gets me!

Again, thanks for your comments! If anyone else reads this please let me know what you reckon!


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## Mr Evil (Aug 12, 2011)

This one? SUNN Roader Racing Bike | eBay

It looks ok to me. It probably just needs a really thorough clean and a bit of oil. I would be driven insane by the mismatched gear levers though.


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## cpltomcat (Sep 12, 2011)

Bike arrived today!! That's the one indeed! Thanks for posting the link fine sir! Why would the mismatch drive you crazy? Pics coming later, but here's all the info I collected on the parts. Excuse the verbosity, but with some things I'm not sure what's relevant!

Front wheel: Reynolds Alta race rim, '627' Reynolds hub. 20-spoke. Reynolds quickrelease. continental dualskin + k tyre.

Back wheel: mavic CXP22 rim, hub brand and model unknown. Logo looks like a 'C'. 32 spoke. Tacx quickrelease. Schwalbe Blizzard Sport tyre.

Cranks: sugino G-11 172.5 'RUBB'?

Frame: Sunn Roader Fuji 2B tubing

Rear mech: shimano 600 rd6401

Front mech: shimano rx-100. Sachs Downtube shifter.

saddle: selle italia yellow 'flow'? Doesn't look like a flite, despite being sold as one.

Rear brake: lever shimano rx 100, brake br-a410 slr.s 49-39mm.

Front brake: lever shimano 600, brake same as rear.

Bars: podium drops.

Stem: JD?

Bottle holder: bor yueh aluminium? Weld broken.

Seat post: something 'performance'.

Handlebar tape: deda.

Chainrings: ss130p-52 and 39.

Cassette: shimano hyperglide cs-hg50. Tv13t a1, tv14t aj, t15t a11, st16t ac, st17t ag (maybe ac), t19t zj 3, st21t zk 3, t23t zk4.

Chain: SRAM pc48 with SRAM quicklink.

Brakepads: unknown, but with an arrow facin forward on the front brakes and aft on the rear brakes ?

Left hood shimano super slr, right hood just ' shimano'.

So there it is! A load of useless information lol but i wanted to write it down so I have a record of what I've used in the future.

Any comments? Also, what do all the markings on the cassette mean? I get the number is the teeth, but what about the letters after? They're all worn as hell so I'll need to work this out before replacing 

Also what do the arrows on the brakepads mean?

Any big positives/negatives about this rig I should be aware of? If I was to upgrade, what would be a good bang for buck option?

Also, I've checked for cracks and dents and can't find anything that looks significant. Bearings are all a bit crunchy but that was to be expected I reckon. Anything else I should be paying major attention to?

Cheers guys!


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## Mr Evil (Aug 12, 2011)

cpltomcat said:


> ...Why would the mismatch drive you crazy?..


I just like symmetry. Having two that were different models would annoy me; having two in completely different locations would be too much:cryin:




cpltomcat said:


> ...Also, what do all the markings on the cassette mean? I get the number is the teeth, but what about the letters after? They're all worn as hell so I'll need to work this out before replacing ...


I don't know what all the letters mean, but any 8-speed Shimano cassette will work.




cpltomcat said:


> ...Also what do the arrows on the brakepads mean?...


The arrows are supposed to point forwards. This means that the rear ones have been installed backwards. Ordinary brake pads will still work backwards, but if you had cartridge brake pad holders backwards, the pads could be pulled out when you tried to brake, which would be... unpleasant. You should swap them around so they point the right way.


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## cpltomcat (Sep 12, 2011)

Thanks mr evil  Are 8 speed shimano cassettes an easy thing to come by? Thanks for the brake pad advice - I guessed that would be the case but I'm surprised that they are on backwards I guess...is there any reason why someone would do that on purpose??

Regarding the symmetry I'm totally with you haha, I'm not relishing the idea of down tube shifting to be honest with you, but partly I feel it's something I should experience, and also I spose beggars can't be choosers :-D

What do you reckon about upgrades? Is there anything that is really worth swapping out?


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## AndrwSwitch (May 28, 2009)

8-speed cassettes are extremely common, and the freehubs they mount on are cross-compatible with 9-speed and 10-speed. Some people report better wear life from 8-speed cassettes and chains. So it's a great place to be in terms of what technology is on your bike, and if you develop a "need" to have more current equipment, it will only be a little bit too expensive to be worthwhile, not crazy expensive. The extra letters, I believe, are for internal use by Shimano.

Thinking about upgrades is way premature. Start with getting the bike to go, stop and shift reliably. If you can see the wear on the cassette, you probably need a new one, a new chain, and maybe one or both new chain rings.

Other things to look for are stiff pivots in the brakes, worn hubs, bottom bracket and headset bearings, wheels that wobble.

Once you get that sorted out, just ride the bike for a few weeks. Then, you can move on to getting it to fit you well. (Assuming you at least played with saddle height and adjustment and bar height and adjustment when you got the bike.) Some people find they want a different saddle. Changing the stem is often necessary. You need to be a little careful with this, since we don't know if your bike's size is even in the right ballpark. Bike fit is somewhat malleable, but if the size is way off, you're never going to get it to fit well. So, be a little cautious about throwing a ton of money at it. If you do change the stem, I highly recommend getting a threaded-to-threadless adapter. They're clunky and people sometimes complain about the weight, but the new open-faced threadless stems are much more convenient to swap out and experiment with. It can take a couple of stems to get it right, especially if you're not paying someone to fit the bike for you.

Now that everything mechanical on the bike is in good repair and you've made it fit you, you're on to upgrades. Luckily for those of us working on a degree or otherwise not in a position to throw $3000 at a new racing bike, a ton of new technology available for bikes doesn't actually do anything. And it's fun to show ten-year-old steel chainstays to a Microsoft executive on a carbon fiber time trial bike. :wink5: Clipless pedals and shoes make a difference, especially in comfort and ease of learning good pedaling form, but stiff-soled shoes can also yield a small improvement in power output. Better tires improve ride feel and yield a small improvement in efficiency. Integrated shifters are convenient, and may make it a little bit easier not to get dropped on a climb or an acceleration if you're riding in a group and already at redline.


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## cpltomcat (Sep 12, 2011)

Andrew you legend! Thanks 

Yeah I've had a look at most of the components you mentioned. The chainrings and cassette all need to go as far as I can see - the shapes are more like undulations than peaks and troughs! The bearings in the headset and BB are, like I said, a bit of a mess! So there's that too...

How can I tell if my hubs are worn? Do the bearings in all these components only affect efficiency or will they eventually cause something to fail completely?

I've bought the full SPD kit so I'll be trying to get my pedaling form as good as I can with those.

Regarding the microsoft executive scenario, there are very few things I'd enjoy more ;-) I'm goin back to university in a couple of weeks so yeah you're spot on with that - money is definitely an object! Glad to hear you echo what I've been suspecting for a while about advances in cycling tech. Saving the money instead 

Thanks again for the advice!


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## Camilo (Jun 23, 2007)

If you want to "clean up" the shifter/brake levers to get a matching set, I believe you can find 8 speed Sora shifters on Ebay for about $40 each = $80 total.

You could also easily convert it to 9 speed by getting the 9 speed version of the Sora shifters and buying a new 9 speed cassette and chain which should fit on that wheel no problem.

I've used Sora on rental bikes several times and it works great for being so inexpensive.


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## cpltomcat (Sep 12, 2011)

Thanks for the advice Camilo! That sounds like something I'll definitely be considering in the next few weeks/months. I just don't want to end up spending all my money on this bike, when I should be saving up a decent wad of cash for one in the future.

I was thinking about this earlier - it would be good to set a target. When I can do X, I can buy myself a £500 bike instead, perhaps? What could that X be? What's a worthy goal? I'd say I was averagely fit at the moment. Not a couch potato, but no athlete! Any suggestions?

Here are the photos I promised earlier! Apologies for the poor quality and indeed photography 

Wasn't entirely sure what I should be taking photos of either. Anyway, there's a couple of what look like dents in the left seat stay near the dropout. I would expect that these are to help make space for the chain. Is this correct?

The saddle was sold to me as a Selle Italia Flite, which I sincerely doubt. Can anyone confirm/deny/ID? It seems comfy enough so far anyway though and I paid £15 for it, so hmm...

What's the opinion on the cassette/chainrings? Worn to buggery?

I have to say, despite all the questions and doubts in my mind, that I quite like the old girl's style :-D



Oh yeah, any chance of IDing the seatpost? I know it's an awful photo, but the sticker is almost all gone anyway lol! Just on the off chance!

Also, what can I do about the rustiness around the headset area? I'd like to get it off and give it a touch up with some matt black enamel model paint - is this advisable?

Aaaaaaaaaaand finally, check out the packing job! I was more than a little concerned when I saw my one and only integrated shifter poking out through the box


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## PJ352 (Dec 5, 2007)

cpltomcat said:


> The chainrings and cassette all need to go as far as I can see - the shapes are more like undulations than peaks and troughs! The bearings in the headset and BB are, like I said, a bit of a mess! So there's that too...
> 
> How can I tell if my hubs are worn? Do the bearings in all these components only affect efficiency or will they eventually cause something to fail completely?


Based on your pics, your bike has seen some use (an understatement), so before contemplating _any_ upgrades my advice is to assess the bikes overall mechanical condition by first checking all the bearing assemblies - headset, f/r hubs, bottom bracket.

On that bike they'll all be loose balls/ retainers, cup/ cone assemblies, so you'll want to check out the races because if they're damaged (pitted, rough/ worn) even replacing the bearings will do little to improve performance. And in fairly short order, the races will damage the new bearings.

Hopefully, that scenario won't occur, and you can just overhaul (clean, re-grease and install new bearings). This will go a long way in improving the operation/ performance of the bike, but because of the bikes general condition, isn't without some pitfalls, like finding damaged parts and having to hunt down equivalents before reassembling.

Again, judging from the pics alone, I agree with your assessment of the chainring, cassette and chain. 

Beyond what's already been mentioned, I'd go over the remainder of the bike and lube/ grease/ replace what needed it for proper/ safe operation. Just getting the bike to an overall state of 'decent' for the least financial outlay would be my goal.


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## PlatyPius (Feb 1, 2009)

Sunn was (is?) a respected French bike company. I didn't know they made road bikes, but they dominated the DH MTB circuit back in the late 90s/early 00s.

The bike you have is pretty worn out. You're looking at chainrings, cassette, and a chain at the least.

The majority of the people on this board are from the US and we do NOT use the "T" word over here. It also means something completely different (ie: "fanny", rather than twit or idiot) Just a FYI, so you don't end up with a posting vacation.


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## AndrwSwitch (May 28, 2009)

Bearings can be evaluated by feel.

A bearing that's in good shape will feel smooth if you turn it with your finger tips. There may be a little resistance, which can be seal drag or incorrect adjustment; don't stress out about that so much. If it feels rough, you need to at least rebuild it, and you may need to replace parts, or the entire component, depending.

I take wheels off to check out the bearing. For a crank, I dismount the chain. Headsets are a little harder to isolate, but c'est la vie. Here are some articles to get you started.

Park Tool Co. » ParkTool Blog » Threaded Headset Service
Park Tool Co. » ParkTool Blog » Adjustable Type Bottom Bracket Service
Park Tool Co. » ParkTool Blog » Hub Overhaul and Adjustment

I don't consider an adjustable bottom bracket worth maintaining. (Someone will probably contradict me with reference to a nice Campagnolo model, but your bike doesn't have that.) Sealed cartridge bottom brackets are cheap and require no attention until they quit, which takes years. Then, throw it out and buy a new one.

The bearings and the drivetrain are important things to maintain well because they can last a really long time if you stay on top of it, but it's also possible to run them into the ground, requiring expensive replacement, if you don't. They're not hard to maintain. Just takes a little attention.

If you decide you want to replace both of your chain rings, consider a whole new crankset. Pricing is sometimes very, very close. Also, especially if you stick with friction shifting for the front, you don't need chain rings with ramps and shift pins, so you can save quite a lot of money there.


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## cpltomcat (Sep 12, 2011)

Wow so many awesome posts and useful opinions!! Apologies about any offence caused by my use of language - that is quite the opposite of what I want to do here.

I'm incredibly impressed at how helpful so many users have been to me as a total noob here. Not one response has been flaming or trolling?? Crazy  Looks like it's gonna be worth sticking around!

Thanks for a smooth introduction to the forums.


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## Camilo (Jun 23, 2007)

First step is to ride it. If it works, you're golden and can just address things as they come up.

I'm a tinkerer, so I'd probably take it all apart and do the bearings, check the brakes and clean it up and lube everything as a starter. But if the shifting and brakes work OK, most poeple would just ride it until something breaks and then decide what the next step is.

Another thing I'd do: assuming it generally works OK, I'd take off the levers, ebay them, and replace them with a matching set (like the 8 speed Sora), or look for a matching or semi-matching left lever (which might actually be possible on ebay). If the cassette needs replacing I'd probably go ahead and do the replacement in 9 speed, although there's nothing wrong with 8 speeds, it just depends on what kind of shiftng you like (Sora has different design than everything else shimano offers).

Just some musings, have fun with it.


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## PJ352 (Dec 5, 2007)

Camilo said:


> I'm a tinkerer, so I'd probably take it all apart and do the bearings, check the brakes and clean it up and lube everything as a starter.


Me too. IMO/E that's the best way to _really_ get to know your new (to you) 'companion'. :thumbsup:


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## cpltomcat (Sep 12, 2011)

Thanks again gents for all the advice!! I am a tinkerer too and part of my motivation for buying an older 'companion' ;-) was that I'd be able to fix her up and be proud of her at the end of it, like I'd earned the right to ride her. Weird I know but w/e 

So I took her out for a run around the park and to the LBS, felt good apart from the handlebars feeling quite low. Also Squeezing the brakes from the hoods is more difficult than I expected, due to the fact i guess I rarely use the muscles involved. Ride wasn't too bad though. Handling could do with a little improvement but hoping that a full headset service will set that right. All in all, I enjoyed using a machine which I could reasonably easily maintain 20mph on. I can kinda see why you guys do it ;-)

Now just to get a track pump, frame pump, cassette, toolkit, stem and riser, brake pads and a million new bearings and I'll be there or thereabouts ;-)

Oh my cleat came loose after my test ride. Ended up having to enter the LBS with one shoe, asking for an Allen key. Oh the shame :-D


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## PJ352 (Dec 5, 2007)

cpltomcat said:


> Thanks again gents for all the advice!! I am a tinkerer too and part of my motivation for buying an older 'companion' ;-) was that I'd be able to fix her up and be proud of her at the end of it, like I'd earned the right to ride her. Weird I know but w/e
> 
> So I took her out for a run around the park and to the LBS, felt good apart from the handlebars feeling quite low. Also Squeezing the brakes from the hoods is more difficult than I expected, due to the fact i guess I rarely use the muscles involved. Ride wasn't too bad though. Handling could do with a little improvement but hoping that a full headset service will set that right. All in all, I enjoyed using a machine which I could reasonably easily maintain 20mph on. I can kinda see why you guys do it ;-)
> 
> ...


If you're going to do headset/ hub/ BB overhauls, along with bearings don't forget the grease. That's actually a key reason behind disassembling/ reassembling the bike, because many times with older/ well used bikes, the grease has turned into a candle wax-like substance, providing neither protection or lubrication. 

Do this along with lubing brakes, replacing cables, housings/ brake pads (as needed), and tuning the drivetrain (after replacing the worn components) and I think the result will be a noticeable improvement in overall performance.

Lastly, since you mentioned a loose cleat, their set up is important to get right, otherwise you could experience knee pain. Something to keep in mind.


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## cpltomcat (Sep 12, 2011)

Thanks for your advice PJ ;-) Regarding the cleat, I had them only really provisionally tightened and my excitement got the better of me  How do you know you've got them in the right spot? I have 20mm x 5mm play in them so I just whacked 'em square in the centre


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## PJ352 (Dec 5, 2007)

cpltomcat said:


> Thanks for your advice PJ ;-) Regarding the cleat, I had them only really provisionally tightened and my excitement got the better of me  *How do you know you've got them in the right spot? I have 20mm x 5mm play in them so I just whacked 'em square in the centre *


Ideally, if you're unsure about cleat set up it's best to have someone who is well versed (usually an LBS fitter) do it.

That said, your initial 'centered' (or 'straight ahead') set up for float is pretty standard, with the ball of your foot over or slightly ahead of the pedal spindle. From there just ride a bit and adjust them as needed (meaning, if you experience knee/ foot discomfort). The adjusting part is where it can get tricky, so if that happens, either consult your LBS or post here and we can assist. Hopefully, they'll work well for you.

The link below (specifically, #3) offers some illustrations/ info:
Bike Fit Fitting A Bicycle Seat Adjustment Height Reach Tips by Jim Langley


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