# What is a "Fred"?



## origamikid (Sep 1, 2006)

I've seen numerous accounts of people writing how someone looks or acts like a "Fred" on this forum. I was just wondering what exactly it means.

My guesses are:

1) Mountain Biker
2) Noob
3) a "civilian"
4) poser
5) a punk kid

So, anyone want to let me in on the secret?


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## seany916 (Feb 8, 2006)

2 + 4 = Fred

I'll scan in a pic after my morning ride... leaving now, be back in an hour.


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## covenant (May 21, 2002)

origamikid said:


> I've seen numerous accounts of people writing how someone looks or acts like a "Fred" on this forum. I was just wondering what exactly it means.
> 
> My guesses are:
> 
> ...


All are close except poser. A fred rides/dresses/accessories without style. A poser is style over substance.


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## seany916 (Feb 8, 2006)

*Okay, back from my slow morning ride at a pokey pace...*

From a cute article at the back of a VeloNews Buyer's Guide 
June 2, 2006 Vol.35/No.3

Performance/Nashbar/Walmart stuff w/ or w/out logos are dead give-aways. Oftentimes it's just a person that started cycling recently or just plain doesn't give a damn about how they look to others. I don't see the point in paying more if I don't have to, but I believe in supporting brick & mortar if they have it on hand. My LBS is great about prices. When I drop my bike off or need something, I don't even ask price. Don't need to, it's about the same as mail order w/ shipping and tax, getting labor for free. Find an LBS you trust and stick with them. It's worth it.

It's about how as we age, our perspective on others in cycling changes. 

Many of us started out as a Fred and ended up as racer wannabes (not shown). Some of us started training in earnest and actually racing. Most of us became poseurs in pink jerseys with Jan Ullrich abs. 

I am envious of the guy that rides with the orange flag flapping above his head, held up by a flexy white stick attached to his rear QR. As safe as that looks, I'm too vain to do it. Considering it for my 8 year old, but her bike doesn't have QR and I'm not gonna bolt & unbolt in order to load her bike into the minivan.

Sorry, birdwalking again. Got an AYSO soccer game to ref in 20 minutes. Gotta get dressed (already showered) and head out. 

Have a great day people... Freds included 

sorry, I didn't notice that the pic didn't post last time, here it is
:23:


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## ericm979 (Jun 26, 2005)

With cycling being "the new golf" for the local power elite and those who wish to emulate them, we have a lot of freds riding new Orbeas and Treks. They'll be wearing color-cordinated gear but they still have the reflectors on their bikes. They can't ride a straight line and they swerve three feet to the side to avoid a pebble.

Some of the riders without style are old guys who have been riding forever. They may look like geeks but they can hold their line.


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## wim (Feb 28, 2005)

12345


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## Argentius (Aug 26, 2004)

N00b is pretty close. So is "squid" in motorcycling.

Basically, someone who is not "in the loop," not a serious roadbiker, but tries very hard to appear that they are.


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## croswell1 (Feb 19, 2005)

*What is a "Fred"???*

A "Fred" is an invented term used by the so-called "elite" cyclists identifying people who they deem uncool riding a bike. By using this term, as to it's intent, is to disassociate themselves from the uncool, therefore making themselves "look" better to other cyclists in their own higher order. It's a lot like in high school, where kids strive to fit-in with the popular, and be viewed as cool. The ones who are not cool, ie: the dweebs, nerds, and of course "Freds" are the ones sacrificed so the cool can feel even cooler to themselves and to others of their own social order.

A "Fred" is not a term of endearment, but an adolescent cut down used by adolescents so they may "shine" above anyone not otherwise accepted by the so called "cool" cycling society. In reality, it only effects the users own inadequacies within themselves, and of the fear they harbor relative to it. Fear of being unaccepted, of being uncool, of being a "Fred".


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## croswell1 (Feb 19, 2005)

ericm979 said:


> . Some of the riders without style are old guys who have been riding forever. They may look like geeks but they can hold their line.




The old guys are of the highest social order. They have been there, and done that, ten fold, and no longer need a "Fred", or anyone to shine. In fact, they are above "shining", and to me that is the ultimate "cool".

:thumbsup:


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## R.Rice (Aug 23, 2004)

Like cross said Fred is a term used by the posers to differentiate themselves from what they percieve as posers.However,the guys who go around acting like the "style police" or the ones who worry about what type of bike,wheels,drivetrain etc that others ride are really the dorks.

Lets be honest with ourselves.We are all a little rediculous.Most of us,myself included,ride around on really high end stuff in nice clothing and take ourselves way too seriously.None of us here are pros.There might be a few on the site but even they probably aren't crap because the guys that are actually "elite" wouldn't be reading this crap because they wouldn't care.


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## saccycling (Sep 30, 2004)

When I first started riding, I saw a peson with a flat. I slowed and asked if he needed any help. He looked at me and said "not from a fred". I rather be a fred than a dick.


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## KenB (Jul 28, 2004)

*I* am a Fred. I wear mismatched kits and black socks. I sometimes wear a cycling cap under my helmet, backwards, to keep the sun off my neck. I don't use gels, I carry a small bottle of honey instead and I carry a small kit in my jersey pocket that not only can get me out of most pinches, but has basic first aid stuff in it too. Until this week, I used SPDs on my road bike and.... AND....*gasp*.... I have a triple.

Me = Fred.


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## Breakfast (Jan 1, 1970)

Yes, the world is full of different types of people. Sadly a lot of folks get labeled because they're perceived as different. 

Remember the movie "Revenge of the Nerds"? A bicycle "Fred" is a bit nerdy but basically harmless. If you feel that describes you don't worry there's always a "Betty" who will love you.


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## alienator (Jun 11, 2004)

Fred is a term that some cyclists throw around to make themselves feel better about themselves. It allows them the luxury of feeling like they're better than someone else.


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## Jett (Mar 21, 2004)

Breakfast said:


> Yes, the world is full of different types of people. Sadly a lot of folks get labeled because they're perceived as different.
> 
> Remember the movie "Revenge of the Nerds"? A bicycle "Fred" is a bit nerdy but basically harmless. If you feel that describes you don't worry there's always a "Betty" who will love you.


Please don't tell me Fred was cheating on Wilma. They were such a perfect couple.


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## croswell1 (Feb 19, 2005)

*Lol...........*

I use to be a Fred when I got back into cycling six years ago. That was before I even knew what a Fred was. I do remember wearing those white tube socks with the different colored rings on top, beat up tennis shoes, and old fashioned gym shorts on my 6-speed Fuji. I surely must've been a sight, but I did'nt care, cuz I was having fun.

I do remember I rode 13 miles to the next town and stopped on the side of the road to barf and puke. Some guy and his wife, with matching Litespeeds on top of their nice car stopped and asked me if I was O.K.!.... I thought that was very nice of them, but I smiled and waved them off, croaking out a barely audible "Yeah, I'll be alright." wheeze. They looked genuinely concerned too, but I just wanted to die in peace.


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## Pwnt (Aug 24, 2006)

So gym shorts, a t-shirt, running shoes, on a 90's something Raleigh = a Fred???

Hi, I'm a Fred.


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## seany916 (Feb 8, 2006)

saccycling said:


> When I first started riding, I saw a peson with a flat. I slowed and asked if he needed any help. He looked at me and said "not from a fred". I rather be a fred than a dick.


Saved you time and an inner tube.


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## Chris C. (Aug 21, 2006)

I wear the best gear I can afford, look like a dork, and have a blast all at the same time. 

Fred's Unite!


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## Metaluna (Aug 26, 2005)

I consider myself more of an OCRG (obsessive compulsive retro-grouch) than a Fred, however I do wear a Camelbak (and not one of those sleek ones either...a fully stuffed HAWG). If I understand the rules correctly, that instantly consigns me to eternal Fred-dom.


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## lydoss (Jul 7, 2006)

Pwnt said:


> So gym shorts, a t-shirt, running shoes, on a 90's something Raleigh = a Fred???
> 
> Hi, I'm a Fred.



LOL, that is so me - except I have a super-heavy mid-nineties Mongoose MB (which actually has more of a road bike geometry) with Spec. Fat Boys slicks. I wear the same clothes and a Polar HR chest strap.

I guess I'm getting into cycling for the wrong reasons. I'm approaching 40 - I ride for cardiovascular fitness and endurance, and I ride on routes that the more serious road bikers ride. I get looks occasionally, but no-one has ever made a derogatory comment (yet). I don't ride for show and never really thought of what I do as a show.

Someday when I have more cash (when the kids are a little older), I'll probably get some generic jerseys and bibs (to increase efficiency and comfort on the road) and a high end road bike, but I'll always cheer on people like myself who are off the couch and excited about a surging heart, the feel of the sun, the coolness of the breeze, and the feel of the road under the wheels.

So, all the Sallys that want to call me Fred - go ahead.  

Mike


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## stevecaz (Feb 25, 2005)

www.thefredcast.com

Listen and learn


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## pspycho (Sep 7, 2005)

lydoss said:


> LOL, that is so me - except I have a super-heavy mid-nineties Mongoose MB (which actually has more of a road bike geometry) with Spec. Fat Boys slicks. I wear the same clothes and a Polar HR chest strap.
> 
> I guess I'm getting into cycling for the wrong reasons. I'm approaching 40 - I ride for cardiovascular fitness and endurance, and I ride on routes that the more serious road bikers ride. I get looks occasionally, but no-one has ever made a derogatory comment (yet). I don't ride for show and never really thought of what I do as a show.
> 
> ...


 WOW, that hits way too close to home... I "used to" ride a Spec. Rockhopper with Fatboy slicks on the road to (I still ride a ton of MTB - going to Kettle Moraine tomorrow). BUT, I just bought a Spec. Roubaix Elite Double (wow it's fast). I'm 41 (not approaching). I don't own any Cycling Garanimals (remember them?) - matchy, matchy coordinating outfits. I have MTB and Lycra shorts, quite a few jerseys, but only one "race jersey", and use (the horror) SPD Pedals because I only have one pair of shoes for both of the bikes.

Used to own a Jeep Wrangler. Nothing more rude than not getting a return on the "Jeep Wave." I often get the same blank look from many roadies. I always wave, say howdy, whatever. Now I have a road bike, but my jersey doesn't match my shorts, helmet, bike, shoes, etc. So, I guess I'm a Fred, but I'm good with that. Actually, I'm more like a "Fast Freddie"


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## fbagatelleblack (Mar 31, 2005)

The qualities of Fredliness:

1. Rides in a T-shirt
2. Has a rear-view mirror attached to his/her helmet
3. Has mountain bike pedals on a road bike
4. Has a kickstand
5. Wears safety glasses instead of Oakleys
6. Uses goofy "Trekking" handlebars
7. Rides a frame far larger than an elite racer would ride
8. Sets the handlebars up so they are as high as the seat
9. Rides bikes like this:










or this:










Say it clear. Say it loud. I'm FRED, and I am proud.

Sincerely,

- FBB

(Fredly on ALL counts!)


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## Pwnt (Aug 24, 2006)

The qualities of Fredliness:

*1. Rides in a T-shirt*
2. Has a rear-view mirror attached to his/her helmet
*3. Has mountain bike pedals on a road bike*
4. Has a kickstand
5. Wears safety glasses instead of Oakleys
6. Uses goofy "Trekking" handlebars
*7. Rides a frame far larger than an elite racer would ride*
8. Sets the handlebars up so they are as high as the seat




I only have 3 of the 9???? So am I only a particle Fred? Or do I just have to have any onf the 9?


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## seany916 (Feb 8, 2006)

Top one looks cool.

Bottom one has a Brooks. Can't imagine a Fred on a Brooks saddle.


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## croswell1 (Feb 19, 2005)

fbagatelleblack said:


> The qualities of Fredliness:
> 
> 1. Rides in a T-shirt *(yep, all the time)*
> 2. Has a rear-view mirror attached to his/her helmet *(guilty)*
> ...



Man, I'd love to have one of those bikes for my nightly commute. :thumbsup:


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## fbagatelleblack (Mar 31, 2005)

Pwnt said:


> The qualities of Fredliness:
> 
> *1. Rides in a T-shirt*
> 2. Has a rear-view mirror attached to his/her helmet
> ...


I dub thee "Fred-In-Training." True Fredliness will come when you achieve #s 2, 4 and 8.

Until then, practice whizzing by lycra-clad yuppies so fast that all they see is a blur of T-shirt and over-sized frame. I tells ya', there is no better feeling in the world then passing a wanna-be racer while I am riding "The Plummer:"










Yours,

- FBB


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## stevecaz (Feb 25, 2005)

AND SO...................

The answer to what is a Fred is:

There is no such thing as a Fred. Thats because there is zero clear definition, and therefore it doesn't really exist. 

To some a Fred is the "Rides in a T-shirt and has a rear-view mirror attached to his/her helmet", etc. To others a Fred is a decked out A-hole with gear they know nothing about and can't ride. Or, a Fred is more of a bike addict who loves the latest gear and techniques, but also either rides more than most everyone else, can ride like the wind, or (not and) has been riding longer than you've been alive. 

So to origamikid and your original question. The answer doesn't matter so don't worry about it, nor try to use it.


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## fbagatelleblack (Mar 31, 2005)

croswell1 said:


> Man, I'd love to have one of those bikes for my nightly commute. :thumbsup:


I just finished building up the Wanta a few weeks ago. See:

http://forums.roadbikereview.com/showthread.php?t=71345&highlight=Wanta

for details. $800 for frame and fork, built to my (very goofy) specs. I hear he charges $700 if you don't ask for canti bosses, extra-sturdy tubing, etc. You just cannot beat his prices! And his turn around times are very quick as well.

http://www.wanta.homestead.com/firstpage.html

Allan (Wanta) got hit by a drunk driver a few months ago while riding. He cracked a few vertebrae, and I think he is still moving slowly. So he might not be building as fast as usual.

- FBB


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## fbagatelleblack (Mar 31, 2005)

seany916 said:


> Top one looks cool.
> 
> Bottom one has a Brooks.


(So does the top one, although I've been told it looks more like a mediaeval torture device. It's a B-73, I think, maybe a B-72.)

- FBB


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## greatfool (Aug 7, 2006)

I think a fred is just someone who is either ignorant of road cycling culture in general or does not care to participate in it. 

This definition could apply to the beginner who buys a ridiculously nice bike but doesn't take the reflectors off as well as the guy who rides in a t-shirt and baggy shorts because he doesn't care but has been riding for 15 years and can smoke you up a hill.

In either case the fred is not participating in what most consider mainstream road cycling culture, though the term is a little ambiguous, maybe there should be two terms to describe each type of fred.


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## BenWA (Aug 11, 2004)

Fred pedals with his knees sticking out to the sides


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## seany916 (Feb 8, 2006)

BenWA said:


> Fred pedals with his knees sticking out to the sides


I cringe every time I see that. Usually, it's a very overweight guy on a brand new mountain bike with a Camelbak and large swaths of spandex-usually 4 panel.


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## bahueh (May 11, 2004)

*hooray..*



R.Rice said:


> Like cross said Fred is a term used by the posers to differentiate themselves from what they percieve as posers.However,the guys who go around acting like the "style police" or the ones who worry about what type of bike,wheels,drivetrain etc that others ride are really the dorks.
> 
> Lets be honest with ourselves.We are all a little rediculous.Most of us,myself included,ride around on really high end stuff in nice clothing and take ourselves way too seriously.None of us here are pros.There might be a few on the site but even they probably aren't crap because the guys that are actually "elite" wouldn't be reading this crap because they wouldn't care.


someone will ACTUALLY step forward and speak the truth!!! pros are too busy training, traveling, or catching up with their families. semi-pros are too worried about becoming pros to worry about what a computer forum has to say. that leaves the 99.999% of riders who are all "rediculous". well put, amen. the rest of us are wannabees who just like riding. freds or not.


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## bahueh (May 11, 2004)

*I've seen Fred's..*

on training rides...where I'm setting tempo easily up a hill and some stranger (always a male) is behind me some distance and trying like hell to gap me for some malign reason as though there is prize money on the line. he usually has on an unmarked jersey and black shorts, a large saddle bag. spastic behavior and never says hello as he sucks wind going by me. I typically immediately pass him again once a climb is over as the dude is SPENT. lack of control...now that's fred-like.


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## fbagatelleblack (Mar 31, 2005)

bahueh said:


> on training rides...where I'm setting tempo easily up a hill and some stranger (always a male) is behind me some distance and trying like hell to gap me for some malign reason as though there is prize money on the line. he usually has on an unmarked jersey and black shorts, a large saddle bag. spastic behavior and never says hello as he sucks wind going by me. I typically immediately pass him again once a climb is over as the dude is SPENT. lack of control...now that's fred-like.


HEY, quit SPYING ON ME and try to come up with some of your own FASHION IDEAS, fer crying out loud!

And if I catch you trying to pilfer any of the WHOLE ROAST TURKEY out of my saddle bag, YER IN BIG TROUBLE!!

Yours in Fredliness,

FBB


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## LWP (Jun 6, 2006)

Confession from a Fred: It's kinda fun casually cruising by some huffin' and puffin' dude decked out in "team whatever" gear while I'm sporting unmarked gear and a saddle bag full of emergency stuff. I'm pretty new to this sport, if you can't hold me off while stylin' your team gear you're not a Fred... you're a poser supreme with extra cheese!


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## Pwnt (Aug 24, 2006)

bahueh said:


> on training rides...where I'm setting tempo easily up a hill and some stranger (always a male) is behind me some distance and trying like hell to gap me for some malign reason as though there is prize money on the line. he usually has on an unmarked jersey and black shorts, a large saddle bag. spastic behavior and never says hello as he sucks wind going by me. I typically immediately pass him again once a climb is over as the dude is SPENT. lack of control...now that's fred-like.


Haha....now that I am guilty of. My very first big ride, blowing up this hill and passed this guy clipping along a fairly good pace,but I showed him who "the man" was. Or so I thought. Get to the top (I'm sputtering and sucking wind) and not half way down the other side and here he comes. I felt pretty dumb, never do that again, lesson learned. I think we both got a good laugh out that one.


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## John Nelson (Mar 10, 2006)

Nothing wrong with using a rider up ahead as motivation for picking up the tempo for a while. Getting passed back is anticipated. Just something to vary the workout. Call it fred if you want. Runners call it fartlek.


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## fbagatelleblack (Mar 31, 2005)

John Nelson said:


> Nothing wrong with using a rider up ahead as motivation for picking up the tempo for a while. Getting passed back is anticipated. Just something to vary the workout. Call it fred if you want. Runners call it fartlek.


It's not bad to pass and get re-passed. It's only bad to endlessly suck wheel and not take a pull when it is your turn. I'm not sure if that is "Fred" behavior or "poseur" behavior, but either way it is annoying and rude.

And it is good to have other riders out there to pace you. I passed someone this weekend, who then worked as hard as he could to stay with me, making me work hard to keep ahead of him up a long, gradual climb. Looking back in 20-20 hindsight, I probably should have let him catch all the way up to me so we could have ridden up the hill together. I guess my ego got in the way.

- FBB


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## sekaijin (Aug 22, 2006)

*hear hear - I'll stay a fred, thank you*



lydoss said:


> I guess I'm getting into cycling for the wrong reasons. I'm approaching 40 - I ride for cardiovascular fitness and endurance, and I ride on routes that the more serious road bikers ride. I get looks occasionally, but no-one has ever made a derogatory comment (yet). I don't ride for show and never really thought of what I do as a show.
> 
> Someday when I have more cash (when the kids are a little older), I'll probably get some generic jerseys and bibs (to increase efficiency and comfort on the road) and a high end road bike, but I'll always cheer on people like myself who are off the couch and excited about a surging heart, the feel of the sun, the coolness of the breeze, and the feel of the road under the wheels.
> 
> So, all the Sallys that want to call me Fred - go ahead.


I'm with you - standing ovation. Glad to see some "revenge of the freds" on this thread. By asking what is a fred in the first place, I clearly gave away my uncoolness and newness to road bike culture. But hey, isn't this the beginner forum? 

Someone please tell me that road bike culture isn't about preening in your expensive gear like some fashion model on a runway, and dishing out catty style-police putdowns. I'm done with high school, thank you. I got into cycling for the workout, and the pleasure of speed and distance. I got a great but beat-up 1970s road bike for free and I'm fixing it up for cheap. But then what do I know, I'm just a dumb fred who enjoys the miles, doesn't care what his outfit looks like, and carries a full repair kit (and maybe even some roast turkey) in a big saddle pack. Happy cycling!


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## asciibaron (Aug 11, 2006)

i could not make this up if i tried...

dude had a new OCLV Trek, decked out in full pro team gear, and was pushing his bike up a hill - i shitte you not. as i passed him i asked if he was ok thinking he might have had a flat. he replied that he was OK, but the hill was just too steep and the bike was JUST too heavy for such a steep hill! the guy looked to be in his late 30's - not much older than me and had much less middle girth then me.

of course he had SPD's on the bike so walking wasn't that hard... what do those OCLV's weight - 25-30 pounds?


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## fbagatelleblack (Mar 31, 2005)

asciibaron said:


> he replied that he was OK, but the hill was just too steep and the bike was JUST too heavy for such a steep hill!


People get so hung up on weight that they do not even try to understand the basics of gearing, training etc. They can just blame everything on a "heavy" bike and never have to exhaust brain or muscle cells trying to come up with an appropriate bike setup or training regime. Oy!

- FBB


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## sekaijin (Aug 22, 2006)

*SPD's?*



asciibaron said:


> i could not make this up if i tried...
> 
> dude had a new OCLV Trek, decked out in full pro team gear, and was pushing his bike up a hill - i shitte you not. as i passed him i asked if he was ok thinking he might have had a flat. he replied that he was OK, but the hill was just too steep and the bike was JUST too heavy for such a steep hill! the guy looked to be in his late 30's - not much older than me and had much less middle girth then me.
> 
> of course he had SPD's on the bike so walking wasn't that hard... what do those OCLV's weight - 25-30 pounds?


I love it. And isn't an OCLV bike supposed to weigh closer to 20 pounds or less? (assuming someone who goes carbon for the frame also gets all lightweight parts) I've been on the Trek factory floor here in Wisconsin, and a naked OCLV frame weighs under 1.5 pounds.

Hey, not to showcase my vast ignorance again, but since this is the beginners forum ... why are SPD's mocked as uncool? I thought they were the new standard for clipless shoes/pedals. What is best?


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## fbagatelleblack (Mar 31, 2005)

sekaijin said:


> why are SPD's mocked as uncool?


Because poseurs have nothing better to do with their time.

Speaking of which, someone tell me to get back to work.

- FBB


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## bobj (Sep 29, 2004)

so in other words... every cyclist is a fred?


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## 340Hemi (Sep 19, 2006)

*Screwed!*

If what I am reading here is true, then I am in trouble. My name is Fred, and I just bought my first road bike 2 weeks ago!

Look for me in the khaki's, tennis shoes, mtb helmet, and the 10' white pole w/ red flag flying!!!!!! rrr:

Just kidding about flag pole, but not about the others, because I spend too much damn money on the bike to afford the accessories this month.

What's the next level up after Fred? I gotta have goals!


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## de.abeja (Aug 27, 2006)

340Hemi said:


> What's the next level up after Fred? I gotta have goals!


 There isn't a rank system and don't get caught up in naming yourself something, cycling isn't an identity it is either a hobby or if you are sponsored, your job.


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## seany916 (Feb 8, 2006)

fbagatelleblack said:


> People get so hung up on weight that they do not even try to understand the basics of gearing, training etc. They can just blame everything on a "heavy" bike and never have to exhaust brain or muscle cells trying to come up with an appropriate bike setup or training regime. Oy!
> 
> - FBB



Yes, training is far more important than equipment. A lighter bike does make a significant difference. Not mathematically, but subjectively, it just feels faster (IMHO).


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## pspycho (Sep 7, 2005)

I got passed today. I "think" I'm in pretty good shape. I usually average 18.5+mph for my 20-30 mile rides. I did a big MTB ride (the horror!) at Kettle Moraine on Tues. and was a bit tired today. Anyway, I'm riding along and this guy (in a beautiful matchy-matchy outift) pulls up to pass. I wave - nothing, say hi - nothing. Doesn't even look over and rides past. Maybe I'm a Fred, but I'd rather be a Fred than an arrogant d!ck...

Sorry, but rudeness bothers me. Funny enough, he did pass me, but I just hung on the whole time about 30 feet behind. I didn't want him to think he was pulling me. Then a rider passed by going the other direction. The other rider waves, but matchy-matchy arrogant boy ignores him too. (I waved.) 

As I've stated before, I'm new to this road thing and bought my Spec. Roubaix Elite just over two weeks ago. There are somethings about some of the roadies I just don't get.


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## John Nelson (Mar 10, 2006)

"wave" is a very dangerous word in these forums.


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## jlfbogey (Aug 18, 2004)

Depends on whether you are a "lumper" or a splitter,

Splitters would differentiate between noobs (simple inexperience or ignorance of commonly held beliefs to the majority of cyclists-----e.g., earing underwear beneather their cycling shorts), Freds (generally considered to be style-less and embarassing to "higher level cyclists of all sorts), regular Joe's (who ride older but decent quality bikes in quality but not flashy "kit" gear), poseurs (who typically wear state of the art cycling team kits and ride high end bikes far above their physical or technical needs or prowess) to snobs (who are style perfectionists with regularly replaced state of the art rides in Scandium, Ti. Carbon, etc...and consider themselves riding Gods above the majority of the rest of the cycling world, except for the---) pro's and racers (who only care about their next race or lap times or improvements in their intervals, and who their next sponsors will be.

Lumpers, like me, say that we are ALL Freds to some degree or other, as none of us are perfect, we all end up with a right calf chainring tattoo sometimes, and we should each look at each other as riders in the cycling community with a common cause, and at ourselves with a lot more laughter and criticism than we do other cyclists around us.

My name is Jeff, and I am a Fred. ("Hi Jeff"). There is no need for a 12 step program, however. Climb aboard the Fred Train.


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## John Nelson (Mar 10, 2006)

Isn't it great that Freds can provide so much entertainment for "real" cyclists, and vice versa. Viva la difference.


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## vanjr (Sep 15, 2005)

BenWA said:


> Fred pedals with his knees sticking out to the sides


Then Fred is probably the fastest biker I know of.


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## bahueh (May 11, 2004)

*mmmmmm....*



fbagatelleblack said:


> HEY, quit SPYING ON ME and try to come up with some of your own FASHION IDEAS, fer crying out loud!
> 
> And if I catch you trying to pilfer any of the WHOLE ROAST TURKEY out of my saddle bag, YER IN BIG TROUBLE!!
> 
> ...



roast turkey....

black shorts are good...better than white on a hot day. speaking of, its getting to be the season to break out teh white shorts!!


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## moab63 (Aug 7, 2006)

*Ha riding with a Cameback is a sure way*



Metaluna said:


> I consider myself more of an OCRG (obsessive compulsive retro-grouch) than a Fred, however I do wear a Camelbak (and not one of those sleek ones either...a fully stuffed HAWG). If I understand the rules correctly, that instantly consigns me to eternal Fred-dom.


to enter the Fred land, but racing with a camelback is a lifetime membership into fred land. This is in mtb racing, in roadracing a camelback is grounds to eternal excommunication.

I personally seen Tinker Juarez, race with a camelback but I guess he is cool(fast) enough to get away with that kind of SIN:thumbsup:


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## origamikid (Sep 1, 2006)

*Thanks for all the replies....*

I must say that I didn't think that this post would generate so much response. I, myself, sometimes ride in a tight fitting T shirt, and I still have toe-clips and sneakers. But I almost always wear bike shorts (without underwear), it's just so much more comfortable. I am thinking about starting to wear safety glasses since I keep getting small grit in my eye and I have some left over from college anatomy class. I just can't justify spending a lot of money on Oakleys that I would never wear while not on a bike. I have 2 jerseys and two shorts, but I didn't pay for them. My fiance works at a place where she can get me free biking stuff from time to time. 

I think I'm a Fred... But I think I'm okay with that. I'm going to wait till I have 500 miles under my belt before I get clip-in pedals. After 2000 miles, I'll upgrade my components. At that point, I think I might have some say about all this "Fredness", but for now I'm just having fun.

P.S. Argentius, I love your blog. Keep on writing!


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## seany916 (Feb 8, 2006)

asciibaron said:


> i could not make this up if i tried...
> 
> dude had a new OCLV Trek, decked out in full pro team gear, and was pushing his bike up a hill - i shitte you not. as i passed him i asked if he was ok thinking he might have had a flat. he replied that he was OK, but the hill was just too steep and the bike was JUST too heavy for such a steep hill! the guy looked to be in his late 30's - not much older than me and had much less middle girth then me.
> 
> of course he had SPD's on the bike so walking wasn't that hard... what do those OCLV's weight - 25-30 pounds?


STOP PICKING ON LANCE!!!


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## fmw (Sep 28, 2005)

I pedal with my knees out. The reason is that I'm duck footed. I've been riding that way for 50 years. I wear T shirts when I ride. Actually, I rarely ride where there are other riders so there is no need for me to show off. I almost always ride alone. I'm old enough that I spend zero time worrying about what others think of me. It simply doesn't matter. And, best of all, my name is Fred.

By the way, I get a kick out of all the "experts" who throw insults at other cyclists. Shouldn't we be friendly to other cyclists and do things to grow the sport rather than ridiculing it?


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## LWP (Jun 6, 2006)

origamikid said:


> I'm going to wait till I have 500 miles under my belt before I get clip-in pedals.


Unless it's for financial reasons, don't wait! It has nothing to do with Fred or not Fred. The benefits of clipless can be felt immediately even by a relative beginner (to road bikes) like me. I thought pretty much the same way as you about waiting, my LBS talked me into going with clipless right from the start and I'm glad they did. They're not difficult, the visions of falling over every time you think about stopping won't happen. I'm not saying you'll never hit the ground while adapting because you might but that will be the case whether you use them now or 1000 miles from now. Remembering to clip out under panic is a mental thing not a physical thing.


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## Whitefeather (Apr 21, 2006)

*Could not have said it better than myself*



> A "Fred" is an invented term used by the so-called "elite" cyclists identifying people who they deem uncool riding a bike. By using this term, as to it's intent, is to disassociate themselves from the uncool, therefore making themselves "look" better to other cyclists in their own higher order. It's a lot like in high school, where kids strive to fit-in with the popular, and be viewed as cool. The ones who are not cool, ie: the dweebs, nerds, and of course "Freds" are the ones sacrificed so the cool can feel even cooler to themselves and to others of their own social order.
> 
> A "Fred" is not a term of endearment, but an adolescent cut down used by adolescents so they may "shine" above anyone not otherwise accepted by the so called "cool" cycling society. In reality, it only effects the users own inadequacies within themselves, and of the fear they harbor relative to it. Fear of being unaccepted, of being uncool, of being a "Fred



Wow. Very well said. Way too many people out there still have not snapped out of the lame-o highschool mentality (which they should have never even adopted). The only group in the biking community that actually deserves its bad rap is the non-waving, non-smiling, non-howdy-ing people that think that they are better than those of us who still wear our trusty polyester t-shirts and jogging shorts because jersys and biking shorts are expensive and so is college. Go ride, smile, and wave at everybody you cross paths with. For all the rich dudes/dudettes who go out, buy a madone sslx--or whatever that fangled 10000 thing is called-- and a full usps kit, all the power to them. It is there money, they earned it. If they want to blow it all on a sweet ride, why not? At least they are riding (or trying to ride... ). Sprockets, they could have spent it on the down payment for an H3. Now THAT would be bad.



Just Another Fred,

David


PS
Whoops. The subject is a typo, scrap the "...than..."


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## pspycho (Sep 7, 2005)

John Nelson said:


> "wave" is a very dangerous word in these forums.


 Forgive my ignorance, but why?


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## John Nelson (Mar 10, 2006)

If you read these forums for a while, you'll see the discussions of "why don't they wave at me" as an oft-recurring thread. It's become the standard for a frivolous complaint. There are many reasons why another cyclist might or might not wave.

Here are two example threads, one serious, one in jest:

http://forums.roadbikereview.com/showthread.php?t=66404
http://forums.roadbikereview.com/showthread.php?t=66927


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## MellowDramatic (Jun 8, 2006)

I personally raced in a camelbak and a ProTour jersey (Phonak to be exact). I then rode a 4:34 just to defy basic Fredian logic.

Being young and able-bodied is fun like that sometimes.


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## bahueh (May 11, 2004)

*we're all the same..*



John Nelson said:


> Isn't it great that Freds can provide so much entertainment for "real" cyclists, and vice versa. Viva la difference.



'real' cyclists can have bad days and pedal like Fred's....Fred's can be on it and outspin the 'reals'...
cut off jeans or 200$ assos bibs...it don't matter. they rip the same when they hit pavement...asphalt is the true mitigating factor. it treats us all as equals. 

fact is, too many people on this forum or not, have way too much time to differentiate themselves from others. It mirrors high school behavior really. I hated high school. 

fred or no fred, I race and train as hard as I can...I don't do it to look cool or influence my pool of friends...I do it because it hurts, it that oh-so-good way. do I wear matching team gear? Yes...but only when I race. I see guys around town in their team kits riding to work in the morning...and just have to laugh. can I pass most recreational riders on a training ride? Yes, but always make it a point to smile and say hello. life's too short to be a PR*CK while doing something you supposed love. save the arrogance and anger for the highway, where it belongs. :thumbsup: 

as for you Fred's....you go man...because everyone who races and takes themselves way too seriously had to swing a first leg over a bike at some point...and at that moment, they too were named Fred.


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## mhk (Feb 26, 2006)

The fact that the term "fred" not only exists but is also used in earnest by some cyclists is just embarrassing. 

Uh oh. Must mean I'm a fred too then. But this fred will unabashedly dot the eye of any "fred"-spewing cyclodork in the peloton. Just to keep things fair.


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## swtbbymol (Sep 20, 2006)

*I am a Fred*



saccycling said:


> When I first started riding, I saw a peson with a flat. I slowed and asked if he needed any help. He looked at me and said "not from a fred". I rather be a fred than a dick.


So basically I am a fred and havent even purchased my first bike yet!!! How discouraging. I am just thinking of taking up this sport in the spirit of a biker friend who just recently passed. I am doing my research now and I just learned that I am already a fred. Oh well...

Sally aka Fred
Phoenix, AZ

Ps. your post made me laugh out loud!!!!


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## fbagatelleblack (Mar 31, 2005)

*It's GOOD to be Fred!*



swtbbymol said:


> So basically I am a fred and havent even purchased my first bike yet!!!


Wear your Fredliness like a badge of honor! Embrace your inner Fred! Fight the seductive narcissism of becoming a poseur.

Proud to be a Fred,

FBB


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## s2000red (Jul 23, 2006)

I wonder if we can get someone to print up some matching bike shorts and jerseys that have "Team Fred" on them. They would probably sell out.

I'd buy them.


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## swtbbymol (Sep 20, 2006)

*Team Fred Forever*



s2000red said:


> I wonder if we can get someone to print up some matching bike shorts and jerseys that have "Team Fred" on them. They would probably sell out.
> 
> I'd buy them.


I would buy them too. What is a poseur? I speak french but do know know this term. Now my battle is LBS v. Ebay. Dont want to spend $1000 on something that could potentially become yard art.


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## fbagatelleblack (Mar 31, 2005)

s2000red said:


> I wonder if we can get someone to print up some matching bike shorts and jerseys that have "Team Fred" on them. They would probably sell out.
> 
> I'd buy them.


I've been thinking of doing a T-shirt with a cartoon picture on the back of a guy (just his head) in a Bell Biker helmet and a big ole' helmet mirror. He would be winking. The caption would read, "TEAM FRED. I CAN SEEEE YOU!"

Too obtuse?

- FBB


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## Guest (Oct 8, 2006)

I sometimes wear black lycra Netti shorts, black cycle socks, and 'gasp' I use SPD's cos I ride an MTB too.

Does this mean I have to get expensive shorts with logos on and some (even more expensive) Look pedals and (expensive again) proper road shoes or else me subject to silent ridicule by true roadies?

What about Crank bros pedals, they are MTB also, what is it with SPD which sends shudders down the spines of the 'fashionable'??? 

Also what about people who carrry a few tools & a spare tube in maybe a seat bag. Granted this is not cool but surely practical. It is all well and good zooming around with no tools like you have a personal support car, but no very clever when you flat 50 k from home. Regarding tools, I draw the line a full length pumps through, they should carry a mandatory life sentence!


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## sekaijin (Aug 22, 2006)

the_rydster said:


> I sometimes wear black lycra Netti shorts, black cycle socks, and 'gasp' I use SPD's cos I ride an MTB too.
> 
> Does this mean I have to get expensive shorts with logos on and some (even more expensive) Look pedals and (expensive again) proper road shoes or else me subject to silent ridicule by true roadies?
> 
> ...


Great post rydster, I would also like to know what is wrong with SPD. Not that it's an issue for me, my road bike is really old (or better, make that classic/vintage) with TOE CLIP pedals. (am I banished?)

In complete agreement regarding tools, except for the pump part! My Zefal hp pump is about 25 years old, works great, and goes with my old bike perfectly.

Maybe when I hit the jackpot I'll upgrade to all new stuff. Though I should probably start by buying a lottery ticket now and then.

Also, why do we pay more for logo clothes? Seems to me they should pay us for being human advertisements!


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## tg3895 (Mar 14, 2006)

Trail or Road, Fred or Barney, Wilma or Betty, The Jetsons or The Flintstones.....Who cares!!! Get out and ride!!!


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## rizorith (Aug 4, 2006)

tg3895 said:


> Trail or Road, Fred or Barney, Wilma or Betty, The Jetsons or The Flintstones.....Who cares!!! Get out and ride!!!


Apparently I'm a Fred in training. Went out on my first real ride (10 miles, hey I just quit smoking 3 weeks ago) over the weekend in L.A. I was wearing a t-shirt (no logo), spandex pants (no logo), SPD shoes and pedals, a mountain bike helmet, sun glasses from my car (is there really a difference with Bike glasses?) and a fat triple. Yet, surprsingly, every biker that I waved or nodded to did the same back.


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## fbagatelleblack (Mar 31, 2005)

rizorith said:


> Yet, surprsingly, every biker that I waved or nodded to did the same back.


You're lucky! My ride last weekend was poseur-intensive. Seems like I must have ridden by at least 20 grim-faced, team-graphic-skinsuit-clad, plastic-bike-riding, cyclonazis. Almost no one allowed themselves to make eye-contact with me, let alone wave back. And there I was on my go-fast bike with drop bars and everything. I wasn't even wearing my Camelback. Heck, I was wearing an actual bicycle jersey with pockets in the back!

Go figger!

BTW: For an excellent explanation of why one should ONLY wear BLACK cycling shorts, go to:

http://www.10fifty.com/mountain-bike-joke.html

Yers,

FBB


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## Pwnt (Aug 24, 2006)

Can someone explain the whole "camelbacks are bad" thing? I thought Hydration was a good thing.:?


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## fbagatelleblack (Mar 31, 2005)

Pwnt said:


> Can someone explain the whole "camelbacks are bad" thing? I thought Hydration was a good thing.:?


Simple Logic:

- Mountain bike riders wear Camelbacks
- Roadies who are poseurs want to distinguish themselves from MTB riders
- Ergo: Camelbacks are bad => QED

C'mon, gimme a hard one...

- FBB


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## rizorith (Aug 4, 2006)

fbagatelleblack said:


> You're lucky! My ride last weekend was poseur-intensive. Seems like I must have ridden by at least 20 grim-faced, team-graphic-skinsuit-clad, plastic-bike-riding, cyclonazis. Almost no one allowed themselves to make eye-contact with me, let alone wave back. And there I was on my go-fast bike with drop bars and everything. I wasn't even wearing my Camelback. Heck, I was wearing an actual bicycle jersey with pockets in the back!
> 
> Go figger!
> 
> ...


HAHAHA ok I'm sticking with black. Although maybe one day I'll see if I can find some pink T-mobile shorts and put a 2 pronged sausage in my pants just for the hell of it. Then again, maybe not.


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## tg3895 (Mar 14, 2006)

fbagatelleblack said:


> You're lucky! My ride last weekend was poseur-intensive. Seems like I must have ridden by at least 20 grim-faced, team-graphic-skinsuit-clad, plastic-bike-riding, cyclonazis. Almost no one allowed themselves to make eye-contact with me, let alone wave back. And there I was on my go-fast bike with drop bars and everything. I wasn't even wearing my Camelback. Heck, I was wearing an actual bicycle jersey with pockets in the back!
> 
> Go figger!
> 
> ...



That was hilarious!!!!  Only black for me moving forward!!!


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## Guest (Oct 17, 2006)

fbagatelleblack said:


> You're lucky! My ride last weekend was poseur-intensive. Seems like I must have ridden by at least 20 grim-faced, team-graphic-skinsuit-clad, plastic-bike-riding, cyclonazis. Almost no one allowed themselves to make eye-contact with me, let alone wave back. And there I was on my go-fast bike with drop bars and everything. I wasn't even wearing my Camelback. Heck, I was wearing an actual bicycle jersey with pockets in the back!
> 
> Go figger!
> 
> ...


Christ! Has the guy on the left put a couple of scotch eggs down there for a quick snack later??!!!


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## Mark McM (Jun 18, 2005)

*Too much of a good thing ...*



Pwnt said:


> Can someone explain the whole "camelbacks are bad" thing? I thought Hydration was a good thing.:?


Like with anything else, too much of a good thing can be bad for you. The idea that athletes must drink frequently and in large quantities has been causing people to go overboard in the last few years, which has sometimes resulted in injuries and death through hyponatremia (water poisoning):

http://www.washingtonpost.com/ac2/wp-dyn/A9158-2003Oct23?language=printer
http://content.nejm.org/cgi/content/short/352/15/1550
http://www.amaasportsmed.org/news_room/hyponatremia_reuters.htm


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## gurp13 (Jul 22, 2006)

Hyponatremia is still waaaay less frequent than dehydration, though. If I had to worry about one over the other, I'd worry about dehydration. Eat a gel or a clif bar or something and you're fine.


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## de.abeja (Aug 27, 2006)

Mark McM said:


> Like with anything else, too much of a good thing can be bad for you. The idea that athletes must drink frequently and in large quantities has been causing people to go overboard in the last few years, which has sometimes resulted in injuries and death through hyponatremia (water poisoning):
> 
> 
> 
> ...


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## mjf (Nov 6, 2006)

:d :d :d


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## gurp13 (Jul 22, 2006)

Well, to be fair, the jersey generally is a lot more comfortable than a cotton t-shirt. I rode for many months in my cotton t-shirts. They'd be soaked with sweat, heavy and sticky. Now, I ride with bike jerseys and they dry fast and feel much better. So, for that reason, I like wearing a jersey. It's practical as well, not just fashionable. But, I bought a Primal Wear Pink Floyd jersey so I could be cool. Well, cooler. Well, whatever. Maybe not cool at all, but I like it.


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## Oldteen (Sep 7, 2005)

joehartley said:


> I personally raced in a camelbak and a ProTour jersey (Phonak to be exact). I then rode a 4:34 just to defy basic Fredian logic.
> 
> Being young and able-bodied is fun like that sometimes.


As a middle-aged club rider, I love your attitude!

A couple weeks ago the strongest young rider on one of our weekly training rides pulled a similar stunt when brought out his 38lb commuter bike with racks, full fenders, and mud flaps. He kept with the lead pack for 15mi or so at a respectable pace (low 20's mph) until he got "dropped". Reaction from the pack? Nothing!!!!!
No one said a word 'cause he regularly drops any of us dumb enough to try to match him when he decides to break away on his "real" bike.

Being young and able bodied is awesome. Enjoy it while it lasts!


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## jtcastillo (Oct 26, 2006)

*EEK! I'm a Fred!*

1. I wear padded shorts
2. I wear my mtb shoes and SPD pedals
3. I use a camel back, (Just to lug my stuff. No water pouch. I have water bottle)
4. My Jersey does not match the color of my bike
5. I also try to say hello to all riders I come across

Maybe this is why no one other than my Father - in - law will ride with me. :cryin: 

I have to admit, I started out as a Mountain Biker but crossed over to the road because I don't like riding trails alone and its easier to ride road without trying to cordinate a group. This is why I ride with: Camel Back, MTB shoes, SPD's and Padded Shorts. I'm to cheap to get "Roadie" attire. I'd rather just ride and spend money on my bike than clothes.

Is there a dress code for Cyclocross? I really want a Cyclocross bike.


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## balzaccom (Oct 11, 2006)

My clothes are not as cool as your clothes: black shorts, non-matching jersey. And I love white socks. Your clothes are perfect. 

If you are faster than me, then I am a fred. 

If I am faster than you, then you are a poseur.

Wanna race? 

:^) 

PW


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## LetsGoOutside (Dec 2, 2005)

No such term as Fred in my vocabulary. There are people who ride and people who don't. 

What makes someone unFredly? Could it be that we all learned from some underground elitist cult that we must take our reflectors and spoke protectors off the minute we get a new bike home? Or is it that local racerboy kit that we wear? Or could it be the fact that some people don't pay retail at shops? Maybe it's the fact that the other non-Freds are on a first name basis with us? We're not above new riders, we simply have conformed over time to what the cycling industry thinks we should be.

I did a road ride with a good mountain bike friend the other day. I was in my full kit with Hammer Heed in my bottles, some gel in my back pockets nestled next to my CO2s, spare tube and cell-phone, perched proudly a top my Cannondale. My buddy was rockin' some 10 year old Nashbar shorts, with an unmatching Jersey, wool socks and a Camelbak that could double as a small shelter (I have the same one but would never ride with it on the road...gasp), all while riding his steel Bianchi w/ downtube shifters. 

We did the same ride, enjoyed it the same way... a true atrocity, a Fred enjoying himself and a roadie enjoying a Fred's company.


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## azcycle (Jan 24, 2006)

I'm all for supporting my LBS and do so, but I also have plenty of gear from Performance and i'm fine with it. I started with mountain biking and not ashamed to wear my old Camelbak, mtn helmet while on the road. And I switched all my pedals to SPDs. I wave and say hi to everyone. I ask everyone if they need help. I don't care what anyone thinks... I'm out to enjoy the fresh air and the road, not out there to impress anyone.

Anyone who judges you for what you ride/wear needs to grow up.


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## pspycho (Sep 7, 2005)

werd. 

Preach it brother~! :thumbsup:


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## Len J (Jan 28, 2004)

*We are all freds to somebody.......*

I ride an Ottrott and don't race...I must be a fred & Poseur
I ride a triple......I must be a fred.
I wear some team Kit....I must be a fred.

I also rode more than 5,000 miles each of the last 10 years......I haven't missed a weekend of riding since my accident in 2002 & I live in the northeast. I've ridden across alaska. I've done years straight where I did at least 1 century a month year round. I'm also been riding for over 30 years and at 51.....I'll stay with a lot of guys half my age. I live in the flats and use the triple so I can ride mountains I don't train for.

But some still would call me a fred......so be it.

I learned about what a Fred was climbing Mt Mitchell when I was 30 years old...I was pretty strong and had hung with the lead group most of the day....I was feeling pretty good about myself.....after 105 miles I was struggling up the hardest part of the climb when I heard a squaky bike coming up behind me......soon I am passed by a 65 YO on a rusty bike, with a basket, wearing jeans, sneakers and a flannel shirt........he passed me like I was standing still. I was humbled. I saw him afte rthe race and found out he lived on the mountain and rode it at least once a day and had been doing it for over 40 years. So who was the fred?

Just Ride your bike. We're all cyclists.

Len


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## dukeryder (Feb 12, 2007)

Breakfast said:


> Yes, the world is full of different types of people. Sadly a lot of folks get labeled because they're perceived as different.
> 
> Remember the movie "Revenge of the Nerds"? A bicycle "Fred" is a bit nerdy but basically harmless. If you feel that describes you don't worry there's always a "Betty" who will love you.












Nothing wrong with Betty!


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