# US made aluminum race bikes. That's us.



## Vynl Bikes (Sep 18, 2015)

We made a small batch of aluminum race bikes for ourselves, and then all our friends wanted one, and now here we are. 

Vynl bikes are small-batch handcrafted aluminum bikes made here in the US, right down to the seat clamp, Paragon replaceable derailleur hanger and decals. 

Frames include a tapered Enve forks. We asked for black logos. They look good. 

We make race bikes. Tight wheelbase, light and stiff but not to the extreme. 

Vynls have threaded BB shells. Sorry Press Fit, we're just not that into you. 

700 x 28's? Yes please. 

We build with 6061-T6 smooth-welded aluminum. This results in an exceptionally durable aluminum frame and we like that. 

Waiting list? Not usually. We have frames in stock. 

We're humble. We know there are a lot of other nice bikes out there in all materials. But if you like (and miss) the kinds of bikes like we make, check vynlbikes out (web, FB, IG, you know the deal) and drop us a line. 

Now go ride. Richmond World's is coming and we're previewing the course soon!


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## Jay Strongbow (May 8, 2010)

Organic, fair-trade and gluten free I hope? Just "small batch handcrafted" doesn't cut it nowadays. Made by artisans I presume?


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## ibericb (Oct 28, 2014)

You forgot vegan.


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## TricrossRich (Mar 26, 2014)

I'll bite... I'm interested.


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## pittcanna (Oct 2, 2014)

Odd that they dont post the website.

VYNL

From there faq about aluminum


> Why aren't there more high-end Aluminum bikes out there? The early days of high-end aluminum racing bikes were dominated by bonded bikes from Vitus and Alan, which were known for having a mushy ride (but they still won a lot of races). Then bike design wizards like Charlie Cunningham and Gary Klein came up with oversized, thin-wall welded alloy tubing to stiffen up the ride, but they overshot the mark — aluminum bikes went from soft-riding to harsh overnight. Finally. Easton’s pioneering work with taper-walled tubing swept in a new era of aluminum race bike — light, stiff, with a more forgiving and lively ride, and impressive durability. The alloy race bike had finally come into its’ own. Then something weird happened. In the late 90’s, alloy bikes developed oversized, triangulated downtubes that messed up the ride. To make up for it, engineers decided to glue carbon rear triangles on. The resulting bikes were too stiff, too harsh, and too fragile. So when carbon bikes became increasingly mainstream, people flocked to the material. In the process, aluminum bikes got a bad rap, but aluminum is still and always will be a fantastic material for a high performance bike.


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## Marc (Jan 23, 2005)

Looks like a potentially nice option...a few things:

1) Don't force me to go to Google to find your website....I did, but only because I was curious. Make customers have to work to find you, and customers won't bother.

B) Downtube adusters...not on the frames? You only give two far-away pictures of bikes and they aren't high enough resolution to tell.

III) You show finished bikes...with wat appears to be a pretty King headset. I presume your pricing is frameset sans headset....or is it?

On the topic of pictures...show off the frames more. I see an Alu framset that is painted, none of the detail finishwork that makes a frame special. Remember, I can get an Alu race geometry frameset with headset off PerformanceBike or Ribble for a few hundred USD. Aside from Made in the USA, go out with a DSLR or good smartphone and do some photographic justice to the product.


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## tvad (Aug 31, 2003)

Gotta love guerrilla marketing.

BTW...incomplete info. How about the bottom bracket spec?


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## Marc (Jan 23, 2005)

tvad said:


> Gotta love guerrilla marketing.


It really isn't. do you know what their website URL is? No cheating going to Google like I did.

As marketing goes...a post on a dying cyclist forum that doesn't even hook you up with how to better research the product...is pretty lacking in marketing.


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## tvad (Aug 31, 2003)

Marc said:


> It really isn't. do you know what their website URL is?  No cheating going to Google like I did.
> 
> As marketing goes...a post on a dying cyclist forum that doesn't even hook you up with how to better research the product...is pretty lacking in marketing.


Our definitions of guerilla marketing differ. Nevertheless, the thread lives.

Back under my bridge.


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## Fignon's Barber (Mar 2, 2004)

They look nice, but there are many more established brands in that price point. And I can't seem to find where they actually are located. just says "made in usa".


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## TricrossRich (Mar 26, 2014)

Marc said:


> On the topic of pictures...show off the frames more. I see an Alu framset that is painted, none of the detail finishwork that makes a frame special. Remember, I can get an Alu race geometry frameset with headset off PerformanceBike or Ribble for a few hundred USD. Aside from Made in the USA, go out with a DSLR or good smartphone and do some photographic justice to the product.


I totally agree with this poster... I'm even willing to do the pics for free if you send me a standard grey frame. I love shooting bikes (among other things) and I even have a high end aluminum race bike to compare too (from taiwan)


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## TricrossRich (Mar 26, 2014)

pittcanna said:


> Odd that they dont post the website.
> 
> VYNL
> 
> From there faq about aluminum


My guess is... they probably realized that including the url would get the post flagged and maybe removed for advertising, since their not a paying advertiser on the site.... the url was pretty easy to figure out.



Marc said:


> It really isn't. do you know what their website URL is? No cheating going to Google like I did.
> 
> As marketing goes...a post on a dying cyclist forum that doesn't even hook you up with how to better research the product...is pretty lacking in marketing.


Yep.. totally not guerrilla at all.


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## TricrossRich (Mar 26, 2014)

Fignon's Barber said:


> They look nice, but there are many more established brands in that price point. And I can't seem to find where they actually are located. just says "made in usa".


Looks like greater bay area, northern california... the FAQ says custom paint can be done by a local San Jose finisher.


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## Vynl Bikes (Sep 18, 2015)

Jay Strongbow said:


> Organic, fair-trade and gluten free I hope? Just "small batch handcrafted" doesn't cut it nowadays. Made by artisans I presume?


Handcrafted in small batches? Handmade a few at a time? Take your pick. But they're not Vegan because we do like our bacon and sushi.


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## Vynl Bikes (Sep 18, 2015)

tvad said:


> Gotta love guerrilla marketing.
> 
> BTW...incomplete info. How about the bottom bracket spec?


Good catch, thanks. BB spec is threaded BSA (English) with a 68mm shell.


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## Vynl Bikes (Sep 18, 2015)

TricrossRich said:


> Looks like greater bay area, northern california... the FAQ says custom paint can be done by a local San Jose finisher.


Our frames are made in Portland, and prepped and finished in San Jose, California.


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## Vynl Bikes (Sep 18, 2015)

Marc said:


> Looks like a potentially nice option...a few things:
> 
> 1) Don't force me to go to Google to find your website....I did, but only because I was curious. Make customers have to work to find you, and customers won't bother.
> 
> ...


Thanks! And thanks for the feedback. 

1) Sorry for the Google. We didn't post a link because we didn't want to diss this forum. 

B) The downtube adjusters we worked with earlier were bulky, heavy and expensive. We run cable stop adjusters from Jagwire or in-line adjusters. 

III. Price is sans headset presently. That may change in the future. 

4. Thanks for the thoughts on pics. We're just getting started and we do want to get more up there.


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## robt57 (Jul 23, 2011)

Vynl Bikes said:


> because we do like our bacon and sushi.


Not together I trust? 

I am gunna guess Zen made??


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## Vynl Bikes (Sep 18, 2015)

robt57 said:


> Not together I trust?


Haven't tried that yet but......



robt57 said:


> I am gunna guess Zen made??


Sharp guess. They do great work.


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## kiwisimon (Oct 30, 2002)

Vynl Bikes said:


> We made a small batch of aluminum race bikes for ourselves, and then all our friends wanted one, and now here we are.
> 
> Vynl bikes are small-batch handcrafted aluminum bikes made here in the US


 in your signature line just throw in your web address. Good luck and yeah get some pictures of the finished product AND the hands on manufacturing.


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## TricrossRich (Mar 26, 2014)

mmm... can't stop staring at these frames. The instagram picture with the frame hanging on the fence, is that nearest one the standard powder coat grey?


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## Vynl Bikes (Sep 18, 2015)

TricrossRich said:


> mmm... can't stop staring at these frames. The instagram picture with the frame hanging on the fence, is that nearest one the standard powder coat grey?


It is. We didn't want to do another black bike and the gunmetal grey was the next best thing.


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## robt57 (Jul 23, 2011)

Vynl Bikes said:


> Haven't tried that yet but......


Well if crispy salmon skin works, crispy porcine belly may no be too bad actually...



> Sharp guess. They do great work.


I find it interesting that Spesh with the Smartweld and maybe some others will figure out AL is the new orange...

I have only had a few what I would call outstanding AL frames in my day. The best of which was a 2000 Teschner made Fuji Team Issue Scandium, last year before the carbon seat stays. My Computainer bike is an 1" steerer Allez same era, which for some reason ride beautiful on the road when I have used it out on the road to my great surprise. A friend had an early CADD 3 that was one of the few CAADs I have ridden that rode uncannily well. Wonder if the planets have to be in line during setting to have them be special or something.


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## ibericb (Oct 28, 2014)

robt57 said:


> Not together I trust?
> 
> I am gunna guess Zen made??


My guess is bacon sushi would be eadily available in Portland. Sounds like a great combo to me.


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## robt57 (Jul 23, 2011)

Let me stick this here, it was not obvious on the site how deep to get to it.

Me, I'd like to see Wheelbase and Standover, Reach and Stack in the chart.


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## Vynl Bikes (Sep 18, 2015)

Fortunately we are better at designing bikes than we are websites. Thanks for the input, we'll update.


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## TricrossRich (Mar 26, 2014)

Vynl Bikes said:


> Fortunately we are better at designing bikes than we are websites. Thanks for the input, we'll update.


I actually like the website design... fresh and clean, no gimmicks... much like the bikes, so I think you've got your branding figured out.


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## robt57 (Jul 23, 2011)

TricrossRich said:


> I actually like the website design... fresh and clean, no gimmicks... much like the bikes, so I think you've got your branding figured out.


I thought so too. But the GEO chart lacked a few specs is all. I like the long and low of the geom though.


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## TricrossRich (Mar 26, 2014)

robt57 said:


> I thought so too. But the GEO chart lacked a few specs is all. I like the long and low of the geom though.


I agree.... I ride a 54 using Specialized's sizing... but ideally, I'd be a perfect 53 if they made that. When I tried a 52, it just felt too tight. This 53 might be the perfect marriage.


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## dracula (Mar 9, 2010)

Vynl Bikes said:


> We made a small batch of aluminum race bikes for ourselves, and then all our friends wanted one, and now here we are.
> 
> Vynl bikes are small-batch handcrafted aluminum bikes made here in the US, right down to the seat clamp, Paragon replaceable derailleur hanger and decals.
> 
> ...


I haven' t looked up the prices and this may be a factor too but I would never consider the frame you posted. You specifically mention crit race bikes and the following will not apply, however:

1. It seems to me installing 25 mm tyres, although you mention 28 mm ones, will be boarderline in terms of clearance == big fail. 

2. Even in the current configuration (with tubulars I guess) there is not enough clearance for mounting Crud Road Racer mudguards; especially the clearance between down tube and front tyre and seat tube and rear tyre.

But this is just me.


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## TricrossRich (Mar 26, 2014)

dracula said:


> 1. It seems to me installing 25 mm tyres, although you mention 28 mm ones, will be boarderline in terms of clearance == big fail.
> 
> 2. Even in the current configuration (with tubulars I guess) there is not enough clearance for mounting Crud Road Racer mudguards; especially the clearance between down tube and front tyre and seat tube and rear tyre.
> 
> But this is just me.


huh... its a race bike, not a commuter. There's no mounts for panniers either... LOL


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## MMsRepBike (Apr 1, 2014)

TricrossRich said:


> I agree.... I ride a 54 using Specialized's sizing... but ideally, I'd be a perfect 53 if they made that. When I tried a 52, it just felt too tight. This 53 might be the perfect marriage.


You realize the reach between the two is basically identical? How is a 52 tight with the same reach?


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## dracula (Mar 9, 2010)

TricrossRich said:


> huh... its a race bike, not a commuter. There's no mounts for panniers either... LOL


Ever heard of Crud Road Racer? 

Do you realize no one is talking about panniers and mounts and a commuter...I think I need to go into LOL mode.

Edit: Everyone starting out in producing alu frames has one immediate enemy: Cannondale's CAAD. I am quite sure one could mount 25 or 28 mm tyres or 25 mm tyres + Crud Road Racer mudguards on a CAAD 10 (the CAAD 12 comes with disc brakes option though), e.g.:

Cannondale launches new Caad 12 Disc - Cycling Weekly

Not everyone uses an alu frame for the pure purpose of crit racing.


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## Vynl Bikes (Sep 18, 2015)

dracula said:


> I haven' t looked up the prices and this may be a factor too but I would never consider the frame you posted. You specifically mention crit race bikes and the following will not apply, however:
> 
> 1. It seems to me installing 25 mm tyres, although you mention 28 mm ones, will be boarderline in terms of clearance == big fail.
> 
> ...


I don't blame you for the skepticism. The bike pictured above has 25c clinchers. The images I've added here are of another build, with 27c's. True 27c's, on wide rims, measured with a caliper. We've had 28's on there too and ridden it this way for months. Not muddy months, mind you, but it's a ridable setup with about 3mm per side. No rubbing, nothing. 

Fenders? Maybe if you went down to narrower tires, like 20c's, the Crud Road Racer might fit. Haven't tried. With the tires pictured, no. That's not really what we wanted with this bike. 

Hey, we're not for everyone. It's a good time in the bike industry and there are plenty of choices out there. But we are definitely looking to be honest about our work.


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## dracula (Mar 9, 2010)

Vynl Bikes said:


> I don't blame you for the skepticism. The bike pictured above has 25c clinchers. The images I've added here are of another build, with 27c's. True 27c's, on wide rims, measured with a caliper. We've had 28's on there too and ridden it this way for months. Not muddy months, mind you, but it's a ridable setup with about 3mm per side. No rubbing, nothing.
> 
> Fenders? Maybe if you went down to narrower tires, like 20c's, the Crud Road Racer might fit. Haven't tried. With the tires pictured, no. That's not really what we wanted with this bike.
> 
> ...


Just saying you can also mount Crud Road Racer for your posted 27 mm tyre configuration provided there is enough clearance between down tube and tyre.

I run true to size 25 mm tyres (68 mm flat) + Crud Road Racer on a Centurion (= Merida) carbon frame. The thing is: it requires a bit of tinkering but I do not run them through the fork crown and seat bride crown area. I have cut them in two (it works no probs over cobbles and chip sealed surface). But I could also run them as the designers had it in mind when designing the Crud Racers. 

I just mentioned the 25 mm or even 28 mm tyre revolution. Even if I were a racer the capability of 25 or 28 tyres were a must in this dna.


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## Vynl Bikes (Sep 18, 2015)

dracula said:


> I just mentioned the 25 mm or even 28 mm tyre revolution. Even if I were a racer the capability of 25 or 28 tyres were a must in this dna.


Agreed. Our bikes do fit 25's and 28's but not with fenders. 

We'll probably address that with a future model. Thanks for the feedback.


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## TricrossRich (Mar 26, 2014)

dracula said:


> Not everyone uses an alu frame for the pure purpose of crit racing.


Right... and there are plenty of people making those bikes for those people... These guys are making aluminum race bikes, no compromises or concessions to other uses... I get that.


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## dracula (Mar 9, 2010)

Vynl Bikes said:


> Agreed. Our bikes do fit 25's and 28's but not with fenders.
> 
> We'll probably address that with a future model. Thanks for the feedback.


Have you thought about introducing it on:

www. weighteenies.com?

They often discuss crit racing bikes. Get a thick skinn though and be prepared for some heavy critisicm on weightweenies which will gonna far beyond than what you have read here.


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## robt57 (Jul 23, 2011)

Vynl Bikes, please explain why you gave me a negative reputation feedback hit, it looks like that is what has occurred. I did forget to take my meds, but not in this thread??

Color me confused!

As a seller of bikes participating in a forum [which may or may not bring you business] negatively flagging potential customers seems a strategy that escapes me I have to say...


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## TricrossRich (Mar 26, 2014)

MMsRepBike said:


> You realize the reach between the two is basically identical? How is a 52 tight with the same reach?


Do you KNOW this to be true, or are you simply going off the dimensions on the Specialized website? When I rode the bikes, there was a pretty noticeable difference and if you look at the other specs, the corresponding numbers don't seem to bear out that the reach would be the same.


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## Jay Strongbow (May 8, 2010)

Vynl Bikes said:


> Handcrafted in small batches? Handmade a few at a time? Take your pick. But they're not Vegan because we do like our bacon and sushi.


My pick is contracted out to a factory in Portland.


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## LGRider (Jun 29, 2015)

Took a quick look at your site and wasn't able to find component specs for your bikes. Maybe I missed it somewhere but I have to say your site needs a little designing. I get the simple clean look but this is too simple.

Another observation, Is your prices I saw 2 bikes listed at 1800 & 2000. Don't know what their running component wise. But that seems a bit steep for an aluminum bike from a company that is just starting and hasn't established itself. I think a lower more competitive priced bike would help to get your bikes out there and your company established. 
Just my 2cents


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## TricrossRich (Mar 26, 2014)

LGRider said:


> Took a quick look at your site and wasn't able to find component specs for your bikes. Maybe I missed it somewhere but I have to say your site needs a little designing. I get the simple clean look but this is too simple.
> 
> Another observation, Is your prices I saw 2 bikes listed at 1800 & 2000. Don't know what their running component wise. But that seems a bit steep for an aluminum bike from a company that is just starting and hasn't established itself. I think a lower more competitive priced bike would help to get your bikes out there and your company established.
> Just my 2cents


Its my assumption that they are selling frames, not complete bikes, which is why they don't list a component spec.


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## dracula (Mar 9, 2010)

LGRider said:


> Took a quick look at your site and wasn't able to find component specs for your bikes. Maybe I missed it somewhere but I have to say your site needs a little designing. I get the simple clean look but this is too simple.
> 
> Another observation, Is your prices I saw 2 bikes listed at 1800 & 2000. Don't know what their running component wise. But that seems a bit steep for an aluminum bike from a company that is just starting and hasn't established itself. I think a lower more competitive priced bike would help to get your bikes out there and your company established.
> Just my 2cents


The gold standard is the CAAD10 at $1000 for the frameset:

CAAD10 Frameset - CAAD10 - ELITE ROAD - ROAD - BIKES - 2015

The OP writes his frames are outsourced to a factory in Portland which implies they are Made in the U.S.A. which likely commands a higher price tag. The CAADs are made in the Far East.


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## tvad (Aug 31, 2003)

$1800-$2000 isn't bad for a finished/painted aluminum frame and carbon fork. Consider the made in USA  Gaulzetti Corsa costs $2999 with frame, fork, headset, standard paint and ISP topper.


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## dracula (Mar 9, 2010)

Vynl Bikes said:


> We made a small batch of aluminum race bikes for ourselves, and then all our friends wanted one, and now here we are.
> 
> Vynl bikes are small-batch handcrafted aluminum bikes made here in the US, right down to the seat clamp, Paragon replaceable derailleur hanger and decals.
> 
> ...



Are these frames in any way engineered? By engineering I am thinking of: FEM (finite element) computations, static calculations, etc.

Do the frames come with a ISO/DIN faitigue test sticker?

I am asking this because the frames look as if someone bought a batch of alu tubes and sticked and welded them together.

Btw: I find your home page actually good in terms of design elements.


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## cnardone (Jun 28, 2014)

$2200 for custom color. At that point, you are in the price range of a custom Strong Steel frame with Enve fork ($2400). That is stiff competition.


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## Vynl Bikes (Sep 18, 2015)

dracula said:


> Are these frames in any way engineered? By engineering I am thinking of: FEM (finite element) computations, static calculations, etc.
> 
> Do the frames come with a ISO/DIN faitigue test sticker?
> 
> ...


Good questions. We do work with engineers on the frame design and the tubeset we are using has passed CEN fatigue testing. Our fabrication crew has a long track record making high-end aluminum frames for other reputable US brands. We took extra steps (like smooth welding) to further improve the durability. We put a lot into these frames. 

In time we'll pursue UCI and other certifications, as for sure it adds a little confidence for a new brand like us.


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## Jay Strongbow (May 8, 2010)

tvad said:


> $1800-$2000 isn't bad for a finished/painted aluminum frame and carbon fork. Consider the made in USA  Gaulzetti Corsa costs $2999 with frame, fork, headset, standard paint and ISP topper.


Sounds like you're going with the two wrongs make a right theory. Would anyone with a clue not just laugh at Gaulzettis prices? And yes I'm quite familiar their frames as they are local here. It wasn't that long ago the CAAD was made in the US and my entire CAAD bike with decent parts was 1100. There hasn't been that much inflation in the past 6 years.


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## PBL450 (Apr 12, 2014)

ibericb said:


> You forgot vegan.


Oh... And you have to rescue a Pit Bull.


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## PBL450 (Apr 12, 2014)

Marc said:


> It really isn't. do you know what their website URL is? No cheating going to Google like I did.
> 
> As marketing goes...a post on a dying cyclist forum that doesn't even hook you up with how to better research the product...is pretty lacking in marketing.


Dying forum? Haha! I'm here from speed skating. We know dying. This is dynamic and alive. Jerky, In a lot of cases, that's different, but the scale is just massive in comparison...


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## PBL450 (Apr 12, 2014)

TricrossRich said:


> I agree.... I ride a 54 using Specialized's sizing... but ideally, I'd be a perfect 53 if they made that. When I tried a 52, it just felt too tight. This 53 might be the perfect marriage.


Wait... Don't seats and stuff get adjusted? I have a hard time imagining a rider being between a cm on a bike unless it's a welded shut geo or something bizarre. I have a 56 and a 58. I ride both and fit great on both. The bikes are set up a little differently... But that is the beauty of movable components?? Right?


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## PBL450 (Apr 12, 2014)

dracula said:


> Have you thought about introducing it on:
> 
> www. weighteenies.com?
> 
> They often discuss crit racing bikes. Get a thick skinn though and be prepared for some heavy critisicm on weightweenies which will gonna far beyond than what you have read here.


Weightweenies using 28s? Gag.


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## PBL450 (Apr 12, 2014)

Vynl Bikes said:


> Good questions. We do work with engineers on the frame design and the tubeset we are using has passed CEN fatigue testing. Our fabrication crew has a long track record making high-end aluminum frames for other reputable US brands. We took extra steps (like smooth welding) to further improve the durability. We put a lot into these frames.
> 
> In time we'll pursue UCI and other certifications, as for sure it adds a little confidence for a new brand like us.


Did you actually neg rep Rob? With 11 posts? He may be in a terminal skid but he's a part of this family. You wouldn't know that because you joined to sell your new frames and have no history or connection, just a sales motive. Good luck bro. That's the way to win friends and influence people. Pound salt. I don't like mean and I will call it out every time. You want to sell your sh*t here after crapping on regulars? Thats a plan dude...


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## kiwisimon (Oct 30, 2002)

dracula said:


> Edit: Everyone starting out in producing alu frames has one immediate enemy: Cannondale's CAAD.
> 
> Not everyone uses an alu frame for the pure purpose of crit racing.


You knock the OP for having too much clearance to be a crit racer and then bemoan a lack of clearance for snap on fenders. Make up your mind Marc. Are the Cannondale CAADs made in the US? Yeah they are the standard bearer for alumi frames. I just hope the OP keeps posting about his stuff.


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## kiwisimon (Oct 30, 2002)

robt57 said:


> Vynl Bikes, please explain why you gave me a negative reputation feedback hit, it looks like that is what has occurred. I did forget to take my meds, but not in this thread??


Classless move. What meds Rob ?I thought you were off the methylphenidate. Sorry for the relapse. OP needs to chill out if he wants to build a customer base. Maybe he got the wrong person, I didn't see anything harmful in your posts.


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## tvad (Aug 31, 2003)

Jay Strongbow said:


> Sounds like you're going with the two wrongs make a right theory. Would anyone with a clue not just laugh at Gaulzettis prices?


Mine was just an observation and an opinion based on familiarity with Galuzetti due to some recent business I did with Bedford. Apparently the opinion was wrong, or laughably misinformed.

I'll defer to others on the topic of aluminum bikes, about which I know very little.


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## Vynl Bikes (Sep 18, 2015)

PBL450 said:


> Did you actually neg rep Rob? With 11 posts? He may be in a terminal skid but he's a part of this family. You wouldn't know that because you joined to sell your new frames and have no history or connection, just a sales motive. Good luck bro. That's the way to win friends and influence people. Pound salt. I don't like mean and I will call it out every time. You want to sell your sh*t here after crapping on regulars? Thats a plan dude...


Not intentionally, I meant to give him a positive point as that makes way more sense given his posts. I've already contacted RBR.com moderators to reverse it.


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## Vynl Bikes (Sep 18, 2015)

We're not the sort of folks to lash out at anyone over some criticism. It was totally unintentional, was actually trying to give Rob some positive rep and must have clicked the wrong symbol. Noob mistake.


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## robt57 (Jul 23, 2011)

Vynl Bikes said:


> Not intentionally, I meant to give him a positive point as that makes way more sense given his posts. I've already contacted RBR.com moderators to reverse it.


That makes more sense. It is the thought that counts, as they say. 

Too bad I just got a custom bike. Else maybe I could shame you into a crazy discount on another frame/bike my wife would get pissed about.


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## Vynl Bikes (Sep 18, 2015)

We love custom bikes. What did you get?

Also, N+1.


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## robt57 (Jul 23, 2011)

Vynl Bikes said:


> We love custom bikes. What did you get?
> 
> Also, N+1.



All Road / Swiss army knife ala Carl Strong. Built a few set of wheels including some 650B.

As soon as this weather makes me put up my Scott Addict for the mucky season, I intend to see if I can't ding up the powder coat on some local logging and gravel destinations on the green machine. I suspect it will be as durable as the one Carl made me 16 years ago.


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## dracula (Mar 9, 2010)

kiwisimon said:


> You knock the OP for having too much clearance to be a crit racer and then bemoan a lack of clearance for snap on fenders. Make up your mind Marc. Are the Cannondale CAADs made in the US? Yeah they are the standard bearer for alumi frames. I just hope the OP keeps posting about his stuff.


I have to beg to differ: show me were I was picking on the OP for too much clearance. I wanna see that sentence or conclusion or statement from dracula. Please show me that.

Btw: I am not Marc I am dracula (and my cycling buddy is Frankenstein).


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## dracula (Mar 9, 2010)

Vynl Bikes said:


> We're not the sort of folks to lash out at anyone over some criticism. It was totally unintentional, was actually trying to give Rob some positive rep and must have clicked the wrong symbol. Noob mistake.


Honestly: send one of your frames to a cycling magazine. They love testing free stuff. 

However, before that do some homework: If I am buying a $2000 frame, although Made in USA, I want some proof of an engineered frame. I mean what separates your frames from the great a many frames rolling out of China except the Made in USA sticker? You should also keep in mind that Cyfac boutique frames are still made in France; and Cyfac shares a long history and track record. Why should someone in the know buy your frame?


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## kiwisimon (Oct 30, 2002)

kiwisimon said:


> You knock the OP for having too much clearance to be a crit racer and then bemoan a lack of clearance for snap on fenders. Make up your mind Marc. Are the Cannondale CAADs made in the US? Yeah they are the standard bearer for alumi frames. I just hope the OP keeps posting about his stuff.





dracula said:


> I have to beg to differ: show me were I was picking on the OP for too much clearance. I wanna see that sentence or conclusion or statement from dracula. Please show me that.
> 
> Btw: I am not Marc I am dracula (and my cycling buddy is Frankenstein).


My bad, I read it wrong, sorry. I thought you meant that having clearance for a 28mm tire was fail in a crit bike. 
Frankenstein is getting on a bit. Might want to consider meeting The Hulk.


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## TricrossRich (Mar 26, 2014)

PBL450 said:


> Wait... Don't seats and stuff get adjusted? I have a hard time imagining a rider being between a cm on a bike unless it's a welded shut geo or something bizarre. I have a 56 and a 58. I ride both and fit great on both. The bikes are set up a little differently... But that is the beauty of movable components?? Right?


Oh for sure they do and that's exactly what I did.... just that when I was fit, the fitter said, "wow, you'd be a perfect 53."


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## Coolhand (Jul 28, 2002)

*Moderators Note*



Vynl Bikes said:


> We're not the sort of folks to lash out at anyone over some criticism. It was totally unintentional, was actually trying to give Rob some positive rep and must have clicked the wrong symbol. Noob mistake.


I can confirm I did get the request but was riding the Alpine Loop Gran Frodo at the time, so my response was a bit delayed. I have added some rep back to robt57 at Vynl Bikes request to fix the mis-click.


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## GKSki (Nov 12, 2014)

I'm still trying to understand how the moderators are allowing this blatant shilling? Surely the advertisers involved with RBR cannot be too thrilled. Here in the Northeast there are plenty of local shmoes TIG welding AL who could be doing likewise, but I doubt Competitive Cyclist, Nashbar and the others would like that.


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## tvad (Aug 31, 2003)

GKSki said:


> I'm still trying to understand how the moderators are allowing this blatant shilling? Surely the advertisers involved with RBR cannot be too thrilled.


+1 on this.


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## robt57 (Jul 23, 2011)

tvad said:


> +1 on this.


Except that:

An Internet shill is someone who promotes something or someone online for pay without divulging that they are associated with the entity they shill for.

Where is the thread content that there is/was no divulging??

As far as mods allowing, how many time do we see this 'allowance' in the name of getting a paid sponsor [and revenues] into the fray for a forum? 

Some smooth online insertion advertising perhaps.


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## tvad (Aug 31, 2003)

robt57 said:


> An Internet shill is someone who promotes something or someone online for pay without divulging that they are associated with the entity they shill for.


I disagree with that definition, but I'm not going to pursue the definition of shilling in this thread. 

The moderators have decided to allow the thread, and that's the bottom line.


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## GKSki (Nov 12, 2014)

Respectfully, I can't agree with that logic, otherwise I would encourage the Richard Sachs, Ted Wojiks and many others to toss their hat in the ring here to sell their wears provided they disclose that they are the vendor. You don't suppose the sponsors would jump up quick if that became prevalent?


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## robt57 (Jul 23, 2011)

GKSki said:


> Respectfully, I can't agree with that logic, otherwise I would encourage the Richard Sachs


Cool, Except I'd say using Richard for the analogy, the guy with 7 years of $400.00 non refundable deposits who stopped taking them a while back, may not be the best case scenario as far as seeding free advertising. 

Sorry for the semantics critique on definition on shilling, I knew what idea you where conveying mostly. Just that I associate shilling to posts where it says no affiliation and there certainly is being the extreme, and we did not see anything close to it.
Apologize if it seemed like a call out. Whew, all this PC effort is tiring. 

Of course I just critiqued you on the Sachs thing too, I better quit. ;O


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## trener1 (Jan 22, 2004)

I was down in Richmond this past weekend for that little race they had, and I bumped into someone riding one of these, I have to say that the bike looked beautiful in person, and the owner was very happy with how it rode.


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## TricrossRich (Mar 26, 2014)

trener1 said:


> I was down in Richmond this past weekend for that little race they had, and I bumped into someone riding one of these, I have to say that the bike looked beautiful in person, and the owner was very happy with how it rode.


Was is this pink one?

https://instagram.com/p/8LR6Q7i7jO/?taken-by=vynlbikes


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## Coolhand (Jul 28, 2002)

*Moderators Note*

On the shilling/not-shilling line it can be a tough call. It often comes down to whether the company is looking to actually participate in the forum or just sell their products without taking out a [reasonably priced] ad. As its a judgment call sometimes you get it wrong and then have to nuke them with the orbital banhammer.


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## trener1 (Jan 22, 2004)

Yeah it was that one, looked fantastic in person, the way the sun hit it etc... the pictures don't really do it justice.



TricrossRich said:


> Was is this pink one?
> 
> https://instagram.com/p/8LR6Q7i7jO/?taken-by=vynlbikes


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## TricrossRich (Mar 26, 2014)

trener1 said:


> Yeah it was that one, looked fantastic in person, the way the sun hit it etc... the pictures don't really do it justice.


how did the welds look?


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## trener1 (Jan 22, 2004)

They looked really clean. almost to the point where I thought it might have been a carbon bike.



TricrossRich said:


> how did the welds look?


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## TricrossRich (Mar 26, 2014)

trener1 said:


> They looked really clean. almost to the point where I thought it might have been a carbon bike.


Nice... really interested in these frames.


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## lacofdfireman (May 2, 2010)

How come so many companies neglect the tall riders. Why not offer a 61-63cm bike. I realize we are not a huge portion of the market but we are riders. When you look at basically any of the large companies year end close out bikes all the big bikes are sold out. So obviously they are moving these bikes during the year. Just an observation. Wish you luck as they are nice looking bikes.


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## robt57 (Jul 23, 2011)

lacofdfireman said:


> How come so many companies neglect the tall riders. Why not offer a 61-63cm bike.


I dunno, my friends that race that are 5" taller than me ride smaller bikes that I do for fast recreational riding. I have a CX bike trade for a CADD10 pending that the guy is 6'4" and the CAAD 10 he is offering to trade for my old CX bike is a 58 for example. I am 6' and I will give this CAAD 10 to my kid. My six13 is a 60.  I know everyone is different, but I cringe at how small bikes I see big guys racing... 

So if all the 6'4 guys they sell race bike to don't buy the 62-3CM frames, why make those sizes I have to think. So even less of a market segment??


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## lacofdfireman (May 2, 2010)

The reason tall guys buy small bikes is because they walk into there LBS and the shop sells there inventory to them. Because bike shops never stock tall bikes they convince a 6'5 guy that a 58cm is the correct size because that's what the tall pros ride. So now the guy buys a bike that's to small and uncomfortable and they never end up riding it. I ride an XXL Ridley and an XXL Wilier. Both bought used off of Craigslist for less than half of retail. So I guess I can't complain. Since the market is smaller it usually makes for better used deals because you are selling to a smaller market.


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## robt57 (Jul 23, 2011)

lacofdfireman said:


> The reason tall guys buy small bikes is because they walk into there LBS and the shop sells there inventory to them.


Well that certainly happened to me when I got my 1st road bike in the 90s, they put me on a Trek OCLV 56CM. I find after 10k of road riding [by 1998] I am solidly needing a 58CM effective Top tube as the bar minimum. My customs are 588mm, far cry from a 56 CM Trek, COuld I have ridden a 59CM Top tube initially, nope. 

All the folks I know and ride with that are both tall and ride 5k+ [taller than me @ 6' Almost 1"] know what size they want I'd say. Beginners is another story, but do they or have they logged enough miles to have any evolved riding position as to be germane to the conversation I wonder?

The LBS does not rule them or me for that matter. So I do not agree much here. My last new LBS bike I knew exactly the size having had the same older one for years and the GEOM was unchanged. 

The 'reason' is they want short head tube so they can be most aero, yes?? The folks mainly getting from LBS want big head tubes, look at the trends for stack these days and especially endurance trends. But again, in the context of racing frames does the LBS really come into it?

Most folks including myself judge bike sizes with a specific prejudice for what fits them. Or at least what they think does.


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## TricrossRich (Mar 26, 2014)

lacofdfireman said:


> How come so many companies neglect the tall riders. Why not offer a 61-63cm bike. I realize we are not a huge portion of the market but we are riders. When you look at basically any of the large companies year end close out bikes all the big bikes are sold out. So obviously they are moving these bikes during the year. Just an observation. Wish you luck as they are nice looking bikes.


It sounds to me like you're assuming that the bike companies make the same number of frames in each size and that there is more demand for the taller frame sizes, resulting in those sizes being sold out by year's end. In my opinion, I'd be willing to bet that the frame manufacturers have a really good idea of exactly the percentage breakdown for each frame size... i.e. they know that for a given run of bikes, they need 10% 49, 15% 52, 25% 54, 30% 56, 10% 58, 10% 61... keep in mind that the manufacturer's goal isn't to have left over bikes at the end of the year to sell to you at discount prices, if they do, they've made too many


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## terbennett (Apr 1, 2006)

FYI... the CAAD10 came with a SRAM Red disc brakes on the Black Inc. The 12 just offers them across the line. Not sure why one would want disc brakes on a road race frame, but there is a market for it.


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