# Seattle weather: really that bad?



## amygdala

I will be relocating soon and I'm looking for a place with good riding, reasonably interesting city life (or at least near a city), and reasonably good weather. My biggest interest right now is somewhere near Boulder/Denver, but my girlfriend keeps pushing Seattle. Overall it sounds ok to me EXCEPT for the weather--i just can't stand the idea of gray skies and rain all the time....

So my question is--Is it really that bad? I actually lived in Portland for 4 years about a decade ago, and honestly at the time I didn't really mind all the rain. It was only when I moved away that I realized how nice clear skies and dry weather was. And Seattle, from what I understand, is even grayer and wetter.

Thanks in advance--I appreciate it.


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## Argentius

I just moved from Portland to Seattle, the weather isn't all that different. I'm told Portland has a few MORE days of precipitation, Seattle a few more total inches.

It's more foggy because of the Sound. It IS grey a lot of the time in winter, but it's sunny right now and it's mid-october.

Many people hate it but if you didn't mind P-town, you probably will feel the same about Seattle.


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## brock

Argentius said:


> I just moved from Portland to Seattle, the weather isn't all that different. I'm told Portland has a few MORE days of precipitation, Seattle a few more total inches.


Hmmm, I heard Portland gets more inches, but Seattle has more rainy days. Anyways, I can't back that up with anything... Argentius is right, if you can handle Portland, you'll be fine in Seattle. Winter rain means freshies in the back country, which means I don't really give much of a rat's a** about riding for a few months


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## Cerddwyr

Argentius said:


> I just moved from Portland to Seattle, the weather isn't all that different. I'm told Portland has a few MORE days of precipitation, Seattle a few more total inches.
> 
> It's more foggy because of the Sound. It IS grey a lot of the time in winter, but it's sunny right now and it's mid-october.
> 
> Many people hate it but if you didn't mind P-town, you probably will feel the same about Seattle.


I have found that the thing that gets to people from sunny southern climes is not just the grey weather, it is the short days, and Seattle will have even shorter winter days than Portland. That makes the following point even bigger.
Specifically, you can tell the difference between the locals and California Mentality transplants (at least here in Portland). When the sun comes out for an hour in January, the locals go outside. The transplants stay inside working and thinking they are impressing their boss with their work ethic. ;-) If the boss is a local they probably didn't notice, cause they where outside.
Also, my brother, who lived for a while out in the Sound and now lives here in Portland describes it this way. In Portland you get more total winter rain, but you get it in a mix of drizzle, downpour and sun breaks. Seattle is more likely to get less measureable rainfall, but more days on end of the same light drizzle. Personally I prefer Portland's weather variety, as well as the more small town feel, but I could live in Seattle too.

Gordon


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## Vettekid

"Seattle will have even shorter winter days than Portland."

It will even out over the entire year. If the days are much shorter in the winter they will be the same amount longer in the summer. Pick your poison.


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## Bocephus Jones II

amygdala said:


> I will be relocating soon and I'm looking for a place with good riding, reasonably interesting city life (or at least near a city), and reasonably good weather. My biggest interest right now is somewhere near Boulder/Denver, but my girlfriend keeps pushing Seattle. Overall it sounds ok to me EXCEPT for the weather--i just can't stand the idea of gray skies and rain all the time....
> 
> So my question is--Is it really that bad? I actually lived in Portland for 4 years about a decade ago, and honestly at the time I didn't really mind all the rain. It was only when I moved away that I realized how nice clear skies and dry weather was. And Seattle, from what I understand, is even grayer and wetter.
> 
> Thanks in advance--I appreciate it.


The weather isn't really "that bad" as in there isn't a ton of extreme stuff like you'd get in the midwest, but it is grey A LOT....for me that was depressing enough to want to live in Boulder where we get 300+ sunny days a year statistically.


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## amygdala

*Thanks...keep 'em coming!*

Thanks for the responses so far.

Yes, I handled Portland pretty well, but at that time I was in college and didn't do much bike riding...
Now any free time I have I like to spend outside, which is why I have trouble with the idea of the Northwest--otherwise I think I would love it. 

To clarify--I'm not a CA native. I've lived many places: Utah, Oregon, New Jersey, Caribbean...where else? School has taken me many places as well, and right now I'm in LA finishing my training. Of course, the weather for cycling here can't be beat, but overall this place sucks. Beautiful weather, mountains, oceans....but try utilizing any of it on a regular basis... The traffic and congestion keeps you from going ANYWHERE on a daily basis. And cycling is a nightmare--drivers were far more courteous in NJ. Never, never have I pounded more cars or flipped off more people than in LA. I know, it happens everywhere--but here its every few minutes!

I'll stop ranting and raving about LA...but I'd love to hear more about Seattle: traffic, culture, people, pros, cons.....

Thanks


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## Cerddwyr

Vettekid said:


> "Seattle will have even shorter winter days than Portland."
> 
> It will even out over the entire year. If the days are much shorter in the winter they will be the same amount longer in the summer. Pick your poison.


True, but I find that knowledge of long days to come in summer doesn't do much for people with SAD in the winter. And some people hate both. Short days in the winter are depressing and long days in the summer mean they can't get to sleep at a reasonable hour without super thick drapes. My ex-girlfriend was like that. My point is that many people who complain about the "weather" in Portland or Seattle are actually being affected by more than just the cloud cover, especially in Winter (when most of the complaints come).
I think it is safe to say that someone who loved Portland would have a pretty good chance of loving Seattle (at least as far as weather is concerned) and vica versa. But someone who just tolerated Portland might very well hate Seattle.

Gordon


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## Cerddwyr

The key to Portland (or Seattle) for me is, learn to love the weather and get out in it. Get rain gear and booties and fenders and go ride. Or, if the idea of riding in the rain drives you nuts, get into kayaking. You are all decked out for an Eskimo Roll, so you are sure to be able to handle the drizzle. And is Seattle you just might get to paddle with a seal, or an otter, or an Orca. THAT is worth getting out in the rain for! But don't try to take your summer sports into winter without changes. That works in Los Angeles, and Florida, but in my book it is also gawd awful boring. Same outdoor pursuits, engaged in the same way, ALL the time? Yech!

Gordon


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## s2ktaxi

it's all relative and depends on where you're coming from. Having just moved here from the Boston area, I'd say there are more good cycling days here than in New England - including the fact that if you don't mind getting wet, you can pretty much bike through the winter in Seattle. There may be a number of overcast though not rainy days through the spring and even the fall.


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## KonaMan

Portland has more total rainfall. Seattle has more rainy days.

That being said, I've lived in both and have seen both cities survive 30+ straight days of rain on seperate occasions. There is a reason why we have Starbucks on every corner (or every other in Portland)...

Caffine supresses the rain soaked depression...:mad2:


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## bigbill

Of all the places that I have been stationed, I have spent the most time (9 years) in the Seattle area. I loved it. Once you get over the fact that you are going to get a little wet everyday, you adjust. The rain is rarely heavy, mostly just a smidge above a drizzle. Fenders are a must for you and a courtesy for those you ride with. Temperature wise, it never gets really cold, just real cool. Sometimes it is 45 degrees twenty four hours a day for days on end. Investments other than fenders might include a second pair of shoes, a decent lighting system since the days are short and fog is frequent, a decent rain jacket but not a heavy one, and a cyclocross bike to use as a commuter. The cross bike will allow a larger tire with fenders. I will return to the area in late 07.


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## lemonlime

bigbill said:


> Of all the places that I have been stationed, I have spent the most time (9 years) in the Seattle area. I loved it. Once you get over the fact that you are going to get a little wet everyday, you adjust. The rain is rarely heavy, mostly just a smidge above a drizzle. Fenders are a must for you and a courtesy for those you ride with. Temperature wise, it never gets really cold, just real cool. Sometimes it is 45 degrees twenty four hours a day for days on end. Investments other than fenders might include a second pair of shoes, a decent lighting system since the days are short and fog is frequent, a decent rain jacket but not a heavy one, and a cyclocross bike to use as a commuter. The cross bike will allow a larger tire with fenders. I will return to the area in late 07.


+1,000,000

No better place to live. 

I've said it once, I'll say it again: the summers are totally worth the winters. The haters are a bunch of wussies.


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## lemonlime

Bocephus Jones II said:


> The weather isn't really "that bad" as in there isn't a ton of extreme stuff like you'd get in the midwest, but it is grey A LOT....for me that was depressing enough to want to live in Boulder where we get 300+ sunny days a year statistically.


Yeah? South Dakota gets 300+ sunny days too. Remember that in February when it's 10 below, the wind is blowing 25 knots and your boogers freeze instantly. But hey, at least you've got bluebird skies!


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## Mellow Yellow

*Here's my $0.02*

I moved to Seattle from the caribean when I was 15; i'm now 39 and have lived here pretty much ever since with some very small exception. The deal with the weather here is:

Winter
Rearly gets below 30 degrees at night. We get the occational "cold snap" where the temps may get down to the teens. We also get the occational "snow storm" which is so rear out here that it becomes a major news event, covered by all of the local TV stations and they all send correspondents out into the field to all 4 corners of wester Washington to cover the 1.5"s of snow that might fall that night. As for rain fall, we don't get huge downpours; we get that heavy drizzle that seems to errode at your soul. The sun doesn't come up until 930-10am and sets by 3pm. And by set I mean SET. It's dark outside by 330pm​
Spring
It's still doing allot of the heavy drizzle, but at least the sun is rising and setting an hour more before and after. The temps are as low as the low 40s to upper 30s and the highs are in the upper 40s to low 50s. Don't expect to see more sunny days just because it's spring. You'll still need to bring your rain gear with you on your rides, becasue the weather men and women out here can't get the weather prediction right half the time.​
Summer
Still, IMHO, there is no better place than the Seattle area in the summer. Now the temps are no lower than the 50's and 60's, and the highs are in the 70's and 80's. From mid July on, your chances of getting rained on during a ride are pretty small. You can plan group rides and events with a farely good chance that you won't get washed away. Take advantage of this time of the year; soon enough December and January will be back and you won't want to even drive in the rain, let alone ride in it.​
Fall
Usually, IMHO, the sedcond best season in this area. The air is crisp, but there are still more sunny than rainy days. The leafs are all changing colors and the area is absolutly gorgeous.​
There are tons of good bike clubs you can join if you're looking to ride with a group. Of course, this is also a great location to find riders. That's all I got, hoe it's helpful. In advance, welcome to the area!


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## Spinnerman

There are cultural reasons and endless outdoor pursuits as well. You can also be in Eastern Washington in 2.5 hours (which is irrigated desert) with twice the sunnry days. There is another weather phenomenon that hasn't been discussed yet either and it is called the convergence zone. Also the closer you are to the Cascade foothills and Mt. Rainer the more rain you will get. If you live roughly north Seattle to a little north of Everett there is a band running east west that gets considerably more rain than to the south. For example, if weather.com says 30% chance of rain in Seattle/Tacoma area (I live near Tacoma) I can count on riding and rarely if ever catching a shower, but if you live in the convergence zone, you will get rained on more often than not on the same day. I noticed this when I would ride north of the U-District when I was a college sutdent at the UW.

I'll give you some hard facts over the last year from my training diary as well. I usually prefer to not ride in the really hard rain and usually only ride outdoors when the change of precip is 30% or less (that means somwtimes adjusting my ride time as morning, afternoon or evening can sometimes give me the conditions I want to get out for my ride). I schedule 5 rides a week for 48 weeks of the year. So let's say that would be 46 weeks to account for a cold or flu bug that kept me off of the bike. That is 230 days of possible rides a year. I was able to ride outdoors for 180 of those 230 days over the last year. That means I was able to ride 78% of the ride days I had scheduled outdoors and the rest were either spin class or trainer. That is not too bad.

I would also echo the comments on the shorter winter days though. If you are working 8 to 5 with commute time etc, You can give up the throught of riding during daylight hours during the workweek from the fall back at the end of October until mid to late March. It ain't gonna happen. Invest in good lights, fenders, rain gear etc. It is also more likely to rain at night then during the day because the barometric pressure usually falls a little at night. So what might be a gray day (unless you live in the convergence zone then it will be raining) during the day with a little drizzle will be raining or constant drizzle at night. I am lucky in that I am done with my day at 2:30 and can usually be on my bike training by 3:30. So I can still get an hour in before night fall at 4:30 on the shortest day. Or I can exten my lunch and go out in the afternoon and get off work a little later.

The late spring, summer and early fall are fantastic. November has the highest measurable rain fall in an "average year." Rain season starts roughly mid-october. September is normally very nice and sometimes we have a late summer like this year. After November, the rainfall gradually decreases a little each month to a low in July. 

The other advantage is there are a lot of cyclists in the area. So the infrastructure for an American City and state is somewhat designed to support cycling. Definitely not up to European standards, but far superior to most states in the USA.


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## terzo rene

30 straight days of rain isn't even worth mentioning. The record in PDX is over 100 days in a row with measureable precipitation, set a few years ago.

Now matter how you cut it 40 degree rain is just plain miserable. People that say it's great or they don't mind are in denial. Not one of them wouldn't snap their fingers and create a 70 degree sunny day if they could. A lot of early humans probably said the cold didn't bother them when the glaciers pushed south too. They all went extinct.


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## Cerddwyr

terzo rene said:


> 30 straight days of rain isn't even worth mentioning. The record in PDX is over 100 days in a row with measureable precipitation, set a few years ago.
> 
> Now matter how you cut it 40 degree rain is just plain miserable. People that say it's great or they don't mind are in denial. Not one of them wouldn't snap their fingers and create a 70 degree sunny day if they could. A lot of early humans probably said the cold didn't bother them when the glaciers pushed south too. They all went extinct.


My first urge is to refute you, but that might result in the wrong kind of people moving here, which is not what I want. So yes, the rain sucks, everyone is depressed and miserable, suicide rates are thru the roof. If you live south of the 38th parallel now, you will certainly hate it here. Save yourself and stay in Los Angeles, Houston, Las Vegas, Phoenix, Atlanta or wherever. Beware, leprosy. Stay away! 

Gordon


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## Gnarly 928

Hey, I'll chime in here having lived two seperate times and places here in the northwest. 

For 4 years we lived near Tacoma (Gig Harbor) right on the sound during the school year. The rest of the year we 'escaped back to Jackson Hole, Wyoming. While it wasn't awful and I did have some great times there, I was elated when we'd crest the Cascades, headed east out of the murk, and see the sun again at around Cle Elum. I was totally depressed again come September as we headed back west for another 7 months of gloom. Being from high country, and open space, the 'closeness' the murky dripping wet forest got to us. A couple of sayings from the Puget Sound area? How to predict the weather there? "If you can see Mt Ranieer, it will rain within a few hours, and if you can's see Ranieer, it IS raining" "The Northwest climate? Summer is 48 and rain, winter is 38 and rain...

Then about 10 years ago, when the millionairs started getting bought out by the billionairs in Jackson Hole, we decided.."Enough!" and since windsurfing was interesting to us at the time, we migrated to Hood River, Or. about 60miles east of Portland..Still pretty grim during the winter down in the bottom of the Columbia River Gorge, but go up about 1000' and you break out of the murk. The climate on this (The Dry Side) side of the Cascade range is much drier than Portland, with wheat fields, sage brush, scrub oak and ponderosa pines..Just 15 miles west, there are rain forests..Pretty cool place, and great biking. Some people commute to Portland daily..probably quicker than the average LA or San Francisco daily commute.

But, you know what is telling about the northwest? Ask a 'true northwesterner', if there is such a creature, where he/she spends thier vactions? I bet none will answer they stay anywhere in the Northwest....Maui is big, Phoenix, Florida, Colorado (for winter vacations) almost anywhere sunny is truely popular with true northwesterners..Everyone I know after 10 years in Hood River, I think I first met in Baja during the winter...

Actually, it IS nice here if you can stand the 'murk'. I kept track one winter in Gig Harbor of all the time I actually spent outside..including going to and from work..I worked at a boatyard..inside, of course..31 minutes in January, what with dashing out to get in the car to go to The Club for tennis (indoors)or down to the yard to work..Sailing season started in Feb. with the spring rainstorms bringing some flukey winds (between fronts), so I would actually spend a few hours at a time outdoors, in rain gear of course, sailing on the sound..Brings back memories...stepping out off the porch in the morning for the paper and squishing a big Tiger Slug between my bare toes!..
Don Hanson


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## filtersweep

I don't know.... I live in Norway and travel to equatorial regions quite often--- and before Norway I was in Mpls. It seems very strange that the sun goes down at 6pm on a nice sunny hot day. Here, we have twilight well past midnight in the summers--- and this is in southern Norway. The short days hardly matter. It is dark when I leave for work and dark when I leave--- here, in Mpls...and in many other places.

We have Seattle-style winters-- better than -40C with snow-- like in MN. 




Cerddwyr said:


> I have found that the thing that gets to people from sunny southern climes is not just the grey weather, it is the short days, and Seattle will have even shorter winter days than Portland. That makes the following point even bigger.
> Specifically, you can tell the difference between the locals and California Mentality transplants (at least here in Portland). When the sun comes out for an hour in January, the locals go outside. The transplants stay inside working and thinking they are impressing their boss with their work ethic. ;-) If the boss is a local they probably didn't notice, cause they where outside.
> Also, my brother, who lived for a while out in the Sound and now lives here in Portland describes it this way. In Portland you get more total winter rain, but you get it in a mix of drizzle, downpour and sun breaks. Seattle is more likely to get less measureable rainfall, but more days on end of the same light drizzle. Personally I prefer Portland's weather variety, as well as the more small town feel, but I could live in Seattle too.
> 
> Gordon


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## Spinnerman

Gnarly 928 said:


> A couple of sayings from the Puget Sound area? How to predict the weather there? "If you can see Mt Ranieer, it will rain within a few hours, and if you can's see Ranieer, it IS raining" "The Northwest climate? Summer is 48 and rain, winter is 38 and rain...
> 
> Ask a 'true northwesterner', if there is such a creature, where he/she spends thier vactions? I bet none will answer they stay anywhere in the Northwest....Maui is big, Phoenix, Florida, Colorado (for winter vacations) almost anywhere sunny is truely popular with true northwesterners..Everyone I know after 10 years in Hood River, I think I first met in Baja during the winter...
> 
> 
> Don Hanson


At first I wasn't going to respond, but I just couldn't resist. 

Have lived in the Puget Sound area for 31 years (not too far from Gig Harbor) and I don't recall ever hearing one of those expressions from someone who has lived here a long time. Maybe someone has said it, but if it is a saying then you should hear it all of the time and it is probably from someone who just moved here recently.

Summer is 48 and raining ... hugh, I just checked the average temperature in Tacoma for summer and it said 75 degrees. I will be the first to admit it rains a lot, but maybe you meant this tongue in cheek. 

And your statement about a 'true northwesterner' .. whatever that is I have no idea since a majority of the people in the area now are transplanted (not born here or lived here their entire lives). I think you go just about anywhere and most people travel somewhere else if they can for a vacation. I lived in Michingan for a while and vast majority went to Floriday, South Carolina, the Bahamas etc for their vacations. But, let's see, my neighbors have 'vacation homes' on hood canal, wenatchee, wenatchee, bend, or, seaside, or and longbranch/key center area of wa, where they go for summer vacations. But, I will agree that most of them also go somewhere nice during the winter for sun or skiing. 

My fact is that I do not ride in the rain or wet streets to start a ride. I will get on my trainer before I intentionally go outside in the rain or wet and I was able to get in almost 80% of my planned outdoor riding in this year and on only two occasions, did rain intrude on my experience. I'll take those odds anyday.

I will agree though that if psychologically you like open space and more days of sun the gray, then this is definitely not the place for you. Probably eastern Washington or eastern Oregon is a better option. I have experienced several winters that were tough, about 1 in every 10 that are tough to deal with, where it rains at some point during the day almost every day of the winter. One that was particular bad was the winter of 97 through 98. I think we had record rainfall that year and Paradise had record snowfall. I wasn't cycling much back then, I primarily played soccer and I recall every game we played being played in the rain or misty fog on fields that were mud or covered with water. That would have been a bad year to be a cyclist. And yes, about 1 in 10 on average will be terrible winters for cycling. There have been two such winters here that way since 1990. 

The summers are usually amazing. I would usually classify about 1 in 10 as a bad weather summer. 

Again, that is the Tacoma area and the convergence zone or the foothills of the Cascades get much more rain and days of rain. Of course, you could live in Anacortes or Sequim and get the rain shadow effect with about 6 or so inches of rain a year.


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## MTT

Good to see so many Northwesterners on this forum. I've been in Seattle for 14 years this winter, and it took about three years to really adjust to the cooler summers and warmer winters, but now that I am adjusted- this climate has it's advantages. The best thing would be to leave in the winter, however I have found a winter project is a great idea. Wood working, bike building/restoring, computer hacking- you need something to get through this miserable winter. 

We are so far north that the days are about 6.5 hours in the winter, but on the other hand the summers are perfect for many sports- mountain and road riding are great up here. One tip I have for planning rides is, if you move to the Seattle area, you can track the rain storms with a combo of the traffic cameras and satelite radar models. I used to do this when my knees were still strong enough to skate the many insane parks around the NW, and obviously dry crete is more important on 100d wheels made of hard urathane (and I have the bump on my head to prove that). 

Also I ride my bike through the winter. As others have said, you need to shift how you look at it. Winter riding is more adventure riding than training in any traditional sense. For example, there is a bridge I have to cross to get to work, and I usually take the very narrow pedestrian walk way to stay out of traffic. Now when the wind and rain are gusting 15-25 from the NW, I have to lean into it. I have made that crossing a game- can I get across the bridge with out being blown into the gaurd-rail. You get the idea. 

Believe it or not, sometimes riding in the heavey cold rain can be a blast. Last year sometime in January I was having a really bad day at work, and when I got home my dog had taken a **** on the carpet, and because it was dark- I stepped in it (with out shoes on). So at about 10pm I put on all my gear and went out into the driving rain to see how far I could go on the trail before I got cold. Just past the U-District heading towards Kenmore a huge owl appeared above my light. This thing was huge, biggest bird I have ever seen, and we worked together for about a half mile. I saw him one other night that winter, and what he was doing was tracking my light for movement in front of me (rats and mice I imagine, but he looked like he could take out a deer). 

That kind of thing would never happen in the summer (or at least it has yet to happen to me). Anyway if you are self-motivated, the winters suck, but they are survivable. However if you are someone who might be prone to winter depression, pick some place else. Someone mentioned snow, but keep in mind our resorts are damn crowded now, so if you can go during the week or are into back country- that is the way to go. Also, we do get rain at the ski areas up here in the winter, so you will need to start paying very close attention to the weather. Actually if you are a weather geek like me, this place is a challenge to figure out- every day of the year. Good luck and may the swartz be wit ya...........MTT :aureola:


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## bigbill

Spinnerman said:


> At first I wasn't going to respond, but I just couldn't resist.
> 
> Have lived in the Puget Sound area for 31 years (not too far from Gig Harbor) and I don't recall ever hearing one of those expressions from someone who has lived here a long time. Maybe someone has said it, but if it is a saying then you should hear it all of the time and it is probably from someone who just moved here recently.
> 
> Summer is 48 and raining ... hugh, I just checked the average temperature in Tacoma for summer and it said 75 degrees. I will be the first to admit it rains a lot, but maybe you meant this tongue in cheek.
> 
> And your statement about a 'true northwesterner' .. whatever that is I have no idea since a majority of the people in the area now are transplanted (not born here or lived here their entire lives). I think you go just about anywhere and most people travel somewhere else if they can for a vacation. I lived in Michingan for a while and vast majority went to Floriday, South Carolina, the Bahamas etc for their vacations. But, let's see, my neighbors have 'vacation homes' on hood canal, wenatchee, wenatchee, bend, or, seaside, or and longbranch/key center area of wa, where they go for summer vacations. But, I will agree that most of them also go somewhere nice during the winter for sun or skiing.
> 
> My fact is that I do not ride in the rain or wet streets to start a ride. I will get on my trainer before I intentionally go outside in the rain or wet and I was able to get in almost 80% of my planned outdoor riding in this year and on only two occasions, did rain intrude on my experience. I'll take those odds anyday.
> 
> I will agree though that if psychologically you like open space and more days of sun the gray, then this is definitely not the place for you. Probably eastern Washington or eastern Oregon is a better option. I have experienced several winters that were tough, about 1 in every 10 that are tough to deal with, where it rains at some point during the day almost every day of the winter. One that was particular bad was the winter of 97 through 98. I think we had record rainfall that year and Paradise had record snowfall. I wasn't cycling much back then, I primarily played soccer and I recall every game we played being played in the rain or misty fog on fields that were mud or covered with water. That would have been a bad year to be a cyclist. And yes, about 1 in 10 on average will be terrible winters for cycling. There have been two such winters here that way since 1990.
> 
> The summers are usually amazing. I would usually classify about 1 in 10 as a bad weather summer.
> 
> Again, that is the Tacoma area and the convergence zone or the foothills of the Cascades get much more rain and days of rain. Of course, you could live in Anacortes or Sequim and get the rain shadow effect with about 6 or so inches of rain a year.



My last tour in the PNW was from 96-00 and we lived in Silverdale over on the Kitsap Peninsula. I remember the Winter of 96-97 being especially bad right after Christmas. It snowed heavy on the 26th and continued for another day with accumulations in my yard of about two feet. It snowed again a few days later adding another foot in the yard. Then it warmed up and rained. The mudslides commenced, especially on Bainbridge Island where a local teacher was killed when his house slid downhill. That was the worst that I remembered, not the cold but the mudslides. We lived in a split level house and I spent the snowy days on the computrainer watching cycling videos. The house was on the side of Anderson Hill so I had to ride up to the top to get out of the neighborhood on my commute days. It required a 39X25 since I wasn't really warmed up. After a short climb, I had a 40+mph descent down to the service road that was my route to work. If it was really cold, I rode the brakes to keep the speed down. I always had the climb at the end of the day, so I always arrived home sweaty even if it was in the 30's. Man, I miss it! Be back next fall!


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## Gnarly 928

Spinnerman said:


> At first I wasn't going to respond, but I just couldn't resist.
> 
> Have lived in the Puget Sound area for 31 years (not too far from Gig Harbor) and I don't recall ever hearing one of those expressions from someone who has lived here a long time. Maybe someone has said it, but if it is a saying then you should hear it all of the time and it is probably from someone who just moved here recently.
> 
> Summer is 48 and raining ... hugh, I just checked the average temperature in Tacoma for summer and it said 75 degrees. I will be the first to admit it rains a lot, but maybe you meant this tongue in cheek.
> 
> I was speaking "tongue in cheek" though as I recall, the fellow who jokingly taught me to predict Puget Sound weather WAS born in Seattle..
> 
> And your statement about a 'true northwesterner' .. whatever that is I have no idea since a majority of the people in the area now are transplanted (not born here or lived here their entire lives).
> =I will agree though that if psychologically you like open space and more days of sun the gray, then this is definitely not the place for you. Probably eastern Washington or eastern Oregon is a better option.
> 
> I've since become more used to the Northwest and don't find the I-5 corridor/Puget Sound region as claustrophobic as I did back when I was splitting my year, with half in the Rocky Mounatins. But in the ten - 15 years since I last lived over there, that part of the northwest has become pretty darned crowded. The state of Orgegon is in total denial, but they have real problems with population vs. infrastructure.. I digress.
> 
> I do prefer the eastern slope of the Cascades for the expanded horizons and the drier climate and also less busy roads for biking. Amazingly, where I live in Lyle, Washington about 8 miles east of Hood River, Or. I am right on the edge of the desert and the climate changes radically within 20 miles of here. In winter, I can look right out at Mt. Hood (if it is not raining). When I arise, I glance west down the Gorge and can see it is raining in Hood River, but if I look east to The Dalles, I will see sun peeking out..So, I drive about 8 miles east into the sagebrush country and wheat fields for most of my winter rides. Summer, I go a few mile west into the Cedar and fern forests around Mt Hood and mt Adams for the cool weather riding..
> 
> A great place, the northwest, but the general concensus seems to be..."Yes, winter is quite wet and gray.."
> 
> Don Hanson


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## collarboneclub

TIC Warning
The PNW is absolutely godawful! no one should ever relocate to this area unless forced to by the government or threat of death. the 100+ days of no sun, endless drizzle, just above freezing temps and unending fog will turn all but the most hardy or braindead into a quivering mass of protoplasm in one winter cycle. You will move in the spring, wonder at the fabulous summer, revell in the cycling culture, question yourself in late fall, become from mildly depressed to absolutely suicidal in the depths of winter and leave in March, just prior to the decent weather returning. In short, your life will be ruined.

Actually, natives simply ignore the rain and adapt. It is an all encompassing weather phenomenom that you must learn to live with. Good news is the rarity of ice and snow. When i was at the U of O many of us had a little chuckle at those from southern climes expense, they fought the rain with umbrellas and rubber apparel, the locals would have a hooded sweatshirt and a baseball cap.
CBC


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## Gnarly 928

bigbill said:


> My last tour in the PNW was from 96-00 and we lived in Silverdale over on the Kitsap Peninsula. I remember the Winter of 96-97 being especially bad right after Christmas. It snowed heavy on the 26th and continued for another day with accumulations in my yard of about two feet. It snowed again a few days later adding another foot in the yard. Then it warmed up and rained. The mudslides commenced, Man, I miss it! Be back next fall!


I recall that winter. Here on the east side, we were all set to bolt to the south the first day of that storm. It snowed here and of course I got my 4X4 truck stuck trying to back up to our dirtbike/Sailboard toy box trailer. Chained up all four wheels, in near blizzard condtions and proceeded to sink the whole mess into the hubs, breaking a couple of chains (deisel truck, lottsa torque) without getting anywhere. Called it a day and decided to wait for better weather. Then it snowed again, turning to freezing rain after a couple of feet. Tried my next door neighbors full size John Deer tractor to pull out my truck...no go.

Kinda stupid, we felt, sitting in the house looking out at our truck with sailboards on top covered in two feet of ice. We live on a hill and we had fun while we waited..3 days for a melt off..throwing sticks for our dogs and watching them try to stop themselves on the ice-crusted snow as they slid all the way down to the highway...about 1/4 mile down... You have to love Interstate 84 during a weather event like that, too. It becomes a huge mine-field with black ice interspersed with semi truck swallowing potholes...
Don Hanson


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## Gnarly 928

So, How many of you have been out riding in the past few days? Raise your hands. Anybody? I'd say this may be the start of the rainy season, wouldn't you? Portland TV says we should have 5 inches of precipitation before we see a break..

On this side of the range, looking out under the clouds, I see some light peeking under my eastside windows towards the Dalles...West is black looking..Guess I'll head east on my Sat. morn. ride..

Don Hanson


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## Cerddwyr

Gnarly 928 said:


> So, How many of you have been out riding in the past few days? Raise your hands. Anybody? I'd say this may be the start of the rainy season, wouldn't you? Portland TV says we should have 5 inches of precipitation before we see a break..
> 
> On this side of the range, looking out under the clouds, I see some light peeking under my eastside windows towards the Dalles...West is black looking..Guess I'll head east on my Sat. morn. ride..
> 
> Don Hanson


In the past few days, no. I am putting a rack and waterproof bags on the fixie tomorrow, so I can get to the gym in morning before work, and still have clothes for work (new job is a little more picky about dress code). Supposed to have rain all next week, and I will be happily pedaling across the Hawthorne Bridge in the rain, laughing at the poor slobs in cars waiting 15 minutes to get thru 6 blocks of traffic into downdown.

Gordon


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## borregokid

Hey Don, I got in a 35 mile 2 hour ride in the rain today. It was about 42 degrees and the rain was pretty light. I have gotten out maybe 5 out of 7 days but I havent done anything more than 35 miles and some of its around 10 miles if you can believe that. Tomorrow I am going to hook up with some mountain bikers and hope it doesnt rain too hard. The cold was kind of a bummer around here with temps between 11 and 20. I got a new bike. Now I have three mountain bikes and one road bike. I had been wanting to buy a race grade XC full supsension bike for awhile. I saw one pretty cheap and couldnt resist. One or maybe two of the mountain bikes has to go. I just got the road bike tuned up for Borrego Springs.


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## JP

I did about 25 miles including the loop around Mercer Island yesterday. It was just dumping the whole time. It wasn't too bad because it was not too cold. But that was a downpour and not "showers." I feels pretty good to be back on the bike after a hernia repair, but it is amazing how fast you lose your condition. 

I've got to say it was just silly fun yesterday. Standing water. Leaves. Real pseudo-adventure. ;-)


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## DanM

I lived in PDX for 8 years and the rain never bothered me once. I moved back to Central CA for five years and loved being able to ride pretty much non-stop year round but I found that I burned out if i did that. Plus CA is pretty much going to hell in a handbasket. I just relocated to the Seattle area (Lynnwood) and love it but I'm on my trainer a lot more. For me, Seattle is way better. I can ride my bike in the morning and sail in the afternoon. Plus Whistler is that much closer than PDX. Both towns rock IMHO. Just buy a good fluid trainer and become a member at REI 

ps: PDX does have the edge on Strip Clubs over SEA


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## Gnarly 928

*The desert IS looking pretty attractive...*



borregokid said:


> Hey Don, I got in a 35 mile 2 hour ride in the rain today. It was about 42 degrees and the rain was pretty light. I have gotten out maybe 5 out of 7 days but I havent done anything more than 35 miles and some of its around 10 miles if you can believe that. Tomorrow I am going to hook up with some mountain bikers and hope it doesnt rain too hard. The cold was kind of a bummer around here with temps between 11 and 20. I got a new bike. Now I have three mountain bikes and one road bike. I had been wanting to buy a race grade XC full supsension bike for awhile. I saw one pretty cheap and couldnt resist. One or maybe two of the mountain bikes has to go. I just got the road bike tuned up for Borrego Springs.


 I have the Borrego weather page right on my computer home page, along with the Lyle weather...It's been in the 90s there all week, but is cooling off to only the mid-low 80 now.

During this rain cycle, Iv'e been getting my rides in, but Ive been adjusting my day around the rain squalls as they spin east over the Cascades. I can see west to Hood River from my porch and east to The Dalles..Hood River has been pretty socked-in, but if I drive about 7 miles east, I get dry..It takes a keen eye and a bit of faith, but if you look closely, the light shows under the clouds and it can be pouring right here and dry just 7 miles east..
See you down there after Xmas in the desert..
Don Hanson


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## 2ride

*Yes!*

current resident...


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## Travis

asking about the cycling weather in Seattle is suspect to troll but I can't help myself

Seattle = 15 years
Austin = 1 year
DFW = 6 years
Okla = I have tried to black them out

Based my experience and what I know of Boulder .... move to Austin! Housing is much cheaper, and the weather is great if you are okay with a few 100 deg days. Boulder would be my 2nd choice but the housing costs are nuts there.
Don't get me wrong, Seattle is great but you have to be very patient and work at it. I always describe Austin as a Seattle with much better weather

cheeers


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## umatillawheelman

*nw native*

born in coos bay, ore area, grew up in fog, wind, rain, lived in willamette valley 20 years, more fog, wind, rain, now live in hermiston, eastern oregon. great riding weather, sunny, but cold. but, i have found if you dress for the weather and have the right mindset, you can ride in just about any weather - unless it is foolhardy such as strong wind, ice, etc. i agree with the poster who rode with the owl. sometimes getting out there in the dark rainy night is cleansing for the spirit. just had a night ride in the rain a couple of weeks ago and it wasn't bad. got right into a hot shower when done - ecstasy. 

if you love to ride, you will ride. when i was in spain it was cycle heaven-but eastern oregon is better.

cheers


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## Eric_H

*It's BAACCKK!*



bigbill said:


> My last tour in the PNW was from 96-00 and we lived in Silverdale over on the Kitsap Peninsula. I remember the Winter of 96-97 being especially bad right after Christmas. It snowed heavy on the 26th and continued for another day with accumulations in my yard of about two feet. It snowed again a few days later adding another foot in the yard. Then it warmed up and rained. The mudslides commenced, especially on Bainbridge Island where a local teacher was killed when his house slid downhill. That was the worst that I remembered, not the cold but the mudslides.


I'm on the Canadian side of the PNW, in White Rock. Since Sunday we have had about 22 inches of snow. I have shovelled like crazy both Sunday (3x that day) and this morning. My skinny little cycling body is begging for mercy. I grew up in Edmonton, Alberta - way up north so I definitely know what the shovel is all about. I know the Puget Sound also received a decent amount of snow and I think Bellingham got rocked pretty good. It looks as though we will get some warmer days starting now without a big dump of rain. That's good, hopefully some of the snowpack will melt before the next big dump of rain arrives (like a Pineapple Express system from Hawai'i of all places). If we were to get a Pineapple now it would be UGLY. Floods, landslides, etc. In January 2005 we had about 1/2 this amount of snow or less. It stuck around for about 2 weeks and then we got the Pineapple. There was a landslide in N. Vancouver that took out some houses and one lady died. Amazingly , she had lived through a landslide 15-20 years earlier in either Hong Kong or Taiwan.

This November has been pretty extreme by PNW standards. Lots of warm rain, then a couple of vicious windstorms, then heavy snow and then a couple of days with an Arctic high driving the temps down, especially with windchill. Nothing compared to what I grew up (can you say -30 C with a 30 km/h wind - skin freezes in less than a minute). In my 7 years out here, I would have to say that November is the worst month. The days are getting short very fast and historically it is the rainiest month of the year. There has been a couple of decent November months, 2002 and 2003 seemed to be drier/sunnier.

As everyone else in this thread says, the key to enjoying the PNW is to embrace the weather. And I agree with those who say the summers here are the best. July, August and September are normally sunny and quite dry, with little wind. In the past seven summers, only 2001 stands out as being less than superb. It always amazes me that August is such a dead month for racing in the PNW, as it has the best weather!


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## jwindhall

where do you live? Sure the Seattle and the rest of the PNW get's a decent amount of rain but they also get next to no snow in the valleys. It drives me crazy, people think Seattle is some place where it just rains ALL THE TIME. You'll get alot of grey days compared to elsewhere but there really isn't that much rain. Don't believe me?

total precip Per wikipedia:

Boston 38.93
Seattle 38.27
Portland 44
Atlanta 50.22
Baltimore 43.5

Is Boston or baltimore considered a Rainy place??? I don't think so.


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## Eric_H

jwindhall said:


> where do you live? Sure the Seattle and the rest of the PNW get's a decent amount of rain but they also get next to no snow in the valleys. It drives me crazy, people think Seattle is some place where it just rains ALL THE TIME. You'll get alot of grey days compared to elsewhere but there really isn't that much rain. Don't believe me?
> 
> total precip Per wikipedia:
> 
> Boston 38.93
> Seattle 38.27
> Portland 44
> Atlanta 50.22
> Baltimore 43.5
> 
> Is Boston or baltimore considered a Rainy place??? I don't think so.


I said where I live in my first posting, White Rock, BC, Canada. Right across the border from Blaine, WA. 45 minutes north of Bellingham. Roughly 2 hours north of Seattle. 

I was actually *defending* the PNW weather, pointing out that historically November is the worst month for rainfall plus heavier storms. This November has been even more crazy than usual. 2 feet of snow at sea level is certainly rare.

Atlanta, Baltimore - they likely get their rainfall totals from heavy storm systems that dump huge amounts of rain. You know, the vicious thunderstorms where they get a day's worth of rain in one hour.


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## Argentius

jwindhall said:


> Boston 38.93
> Seattle 38.27
> Portland 44
> Atlanta 50.22
> Baltimore 43.5
> Is Boston or baltimore considered a Rainy place??? I don't think so.


Yeah, because in Baltimore and Boston it SNOWS. That counts as precipitation but not rain...

Portland / Seattle are super "rainy places" because fpr the most part nobody cares if it rained .25 inches or 2.5 inches in a day, they just care if it RAINED, and the number of total days of at least some rain here is huge. 

That's the funny thing about "real" Portlanders -- we live in the "rainy city" and no one owns an umbrella...


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## Cervelo-er

*The Portland to Seattle Continuum*

Thought I would chime in a little on what it's like to move to Seattle from Portland...since that is exactly what I did about 7 months ago.

Caveat:: I lived in seattle for 6 years while going to UW and then working afterwards, but mostly spent my time living/going to school in the U District, so my concept at the time was of a "small town Seattle" if that makes any sense. I wasn't riding a ton during those years either, so it was a different experience than what I'm having now.

All that said, I somewhat knew what I was getting into when I accepted a position in Bellevue back in the summer. I moved up here with my girlfriend from NW Portland where I was a 6 block walk from work and a mile run from the trails of Forest Park. I was a 3-4 mile ride from being up in the west hills away from traffic and 10 miles from being out in farm country doing the same...needless to say, I never drove to ride my bike. My neighborhood had independent bars, restaurants, food co-ops, coffee shops, etc. And all of the things in this paragraph are the things I would list at the top of a must-have-for-quality-of-life list.

However, the job was too good to pass up as far as a career and money perspective go, so we left everything we loved and moved to Seattle thinking we could roughly replicate the experience...after all, I loved Seattle when I was here going to school and knew my way around.

All I can say is, the two cities could not be more different for the type of things we love. After looking at neighborhoods on the Seattle side to rent in, we found a lot to like...Ballard and Fremont are awesome little hoods very similar to NW or SE Portland...but I'd be looking at 45 minutes each way in the car every day to get to work (I have to be in at 5:30 am and work 12 hour shifts making bike commuting difficult for that distance). Everywhere we went there was that sort of tradeoff...downtown was closer, but hardly a place to run, ride a bike, or walk around at night...and any other neighborhoods we found were great but totally detached from the rest of the city, no grocers or restaurants without driving the car.

So, to make a long story only moderately long, we moved to DT Bellevue...which for those of you who haven't been here, is an older downtown that is in the process of being hugely made over. There are new condo hi-rises going up all over the place. We found a place in a new apartment building that's a block from a new Whole Foods (across the freeway) and only 4-5 blocks for each of us from work. The apartment is nice, tiny and expensive, but nice. But, compared to Portland, we are living in suburban hell. There's one thai and one mexican restaurant to walk to...across 5 lane roads...and the area is a ghost town after 9 pm...everything else is chain stores, chain rest, and starbux. Our quality of life markers are pretty low right now and both of us are wondering if we can make it much longer here without having to try a different area and just live with being part of the traffic f-story here.

On the plus side. The road riding from here isn't too bad...loops around the lake or out towards the east are pretty fun...and I'm still working on exploring more. We've got a great view of the cascades and with all the snow, it's absolutely beautiful...especially on a sunny day as it is now. The running around here sucks compared to Forest Park...but we are about 40 miles from the cascades and I did a lot of running up there before I hurt myself. And...it is fun to be in a big city sometimes. We take the bus over to Seattle sometimes on the weekends and walk around, or head over to the bookstores and cafes in the U-District.

So, at this point we are trying to figure out what to do to make the best of the situation...stay in Seattle, look for work elsewhere, move to a different part of the city, etc.

I guess the moral of my story would be...think long and hard about what you are actually going to be doing on a day to day basis before moving up here. If you don't mind driving...or if you already live in the suburbs of Portland and commute...then Seattle will be very much the same for you. Or, if you are able to find work close to a neigborhood you like, then they may be very close. Seattle is more expensive than Portland, but not prohibitively so.

Personally, if I could have found the job I have now in Portland, I would never have left.

The weather is a wash in my opinion. Might be a little hotter in the summer in Portland, but I can't say I've noticed a rain/darkness/cold difference all that much.

Just realizing how long of a post I wrote...just got done with a long cold ride...think my toes are thawed enough now to move on with my day


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## 2ride

*Totally agree*



Cervelo-er said:


> Thought I would chime in a little on what it's like to move to Seattle from Portland...since that is exactly what I did about 7 months ago...
> 
> Cervelo-er's post pretty much sums up my feelings after moving fom Portland to Seattle in 1998. Actually, for my quality of life considerations, the weather is probably the most similiar thing about Portland vs. Seattle. I haven't found any areas in Seattle that even come close to Portland's down to earth, charming lifestyle. The neighborhoods in Seattle that could be considered similiar are pretty much old and rundown... but fun in their own way.
> 
> When I lived in Portland I did most of my riding in the wine country just south of Portland--little traffic and incrediable scenery. For reasons I still haven't figured out, the rural areas outside of Seattle are dramatically different... the *******, white trash factor is the predominate theme. The countryside is beautiful but the people who live there would rather landscape their land with old rusted cars and washing machines vs. actually taking pride in what they have.
> 
> I can say that we do like some of the big city acpects of Seattle... the enthnic diversification, culture, sports teams, the Puget Sound, San Juan Islands, the water, and friends. That said, if I had a choice now, Portland would win easily.
> 
> Back to your weather question, it's difficult for five months of the year but in those five months there are many days that you can ride without much rainfall. And if you can bear it, riding in the rain occasionally is not that bad. The good months are really good... the "city" riding is actually pretty good. My favorite ride is from Marymoor Park and up the Sammamish river trail to the Burke Gilman trail and then to the University, Madison Park... across I-90 to and around Mercer Island... up through Bellevue, Kirkland, Juanita and back to the Burke Gilman trail... riding is on non-motorized paths, quiet neighborhood streets, and busier roads with wide bike lanes. Total distance is about 75 miles... there are many shorter versions. A nice short ride of about 22 miles is going around Lake Sammamish... doing this on an early summer morning is awesome. There is some good rural riding out in the Fall City, Carnation, Snoqualmie areas.
> 
> Good luck!


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## jwindhall

Argentius said:


> Yeah, because in Baltimore and Boston it SNOWS. That counts as precipitation but not rain...



That's what i said!



> Sure the Seattle and the rest of the PNW get's a decent amount of rain but they also get next to no snow in the valleys.


Folks talk about PNW like it;s the plauge or something. Let me ask you this. WHich makes for better biking conditions? cold and snow or warm and wet?


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## wipeout

jwindhall said:


> WHich makes for better biking conditions? cold and snow or warm and wet?


Bend weather.


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## DeaconBlues

wipeout said:


> Bend weather.


From what I understand, the Sun River area has become quite popular. I've heard rumors that there are some retired pro cyclists (I don't recall any names) living in SR or there abouts. IIRC, the weather is pretty decent, I guess more four season like. 

Deek


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## steve_e_f

I moved back to Portland from LA in November and haven't found the rain to be bad at all. 

Just put on a good gore-tex type jacket, get some fenders, and be prepared to get a little wet. In reality, riding in the rain makes you feel like a kid again.

My typical clothes are 2-3 top layers + jacket and tights + shorts on the bottom. I haven't had any trouble... except finding time to ride as much as I want to.

the snow and ice on the other hand, make things impossible, but they aren't THAT frequent.

-s


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## jnicholz

Portland > Seattle. 

I would keep typing, but I think it has already been explained


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## ChilliConCarnage

Note to Cervelo-er:

Move west, young man. Just accept the commute, which is actually not bad. The Eastside is pure hell. I lived in Issaquah and commuted downtown until about two years ago when I decided I had to get out of the snobby neighborhood we lived in (Klahanie).

I've couldn't been happier with that decision. The area where I live (near Greenlake) is awesome. I'm just minutes away from everything.

Just do it.


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## undies

wipeout said:


> Bend weather.


But can anyone afford to move there anymore? 

_Home prices in Bend appreciated faster than prices in any other city in the nation in 2006, a federal agency reported Thursday, rising more than 3.6 times the national rate._


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## rmsmith

I agree, LA sucks. If you have the income, San Luis Obispo, CA has the best climate and a quiet rural environment for cycling.


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## Art853

From Doonesbury

http://www.doonesbury.com/strip/dailydose/index.html?uc_full_date=20070312


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