# good deal on a shogun?



## alpka (Apr 4, 2006)

I found this bike and it is very interesting. But, it is listed as a touring bike. I don't see eyelets on the fork or any brazeons for H2O bottles...
It is listed as a Shogun 600 touring. Has centerpull brakes, shimano components...
Any thoughts on this baby?


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## Reynolds531 (Nov 8, 2002)

alpka said:


> I found this bike and it is very interesting. But, it is listed as a touring bike. I don't see eyelets on the fork or any brazeons for H2O bottles...
> It is listed as a Shogun 600 touring. Has centerpull brakes, shimano components...
> Any thoughts on this baby?


Looks like a really nice bike in great shape. Back in the day we used clamps to attach water bottles, racks, etc. Not having front fender eyelets is a little strange. The bike looks like it has a 1/2 step and granny, really low gears, barcons, long chainstays, and probably fits 32 mm tires with fenders. All it needs is a Brooks saddle.

Shogun was a name used by an importer. There was no Shogun manufacturing company. I have an old Shogun racing bike that is well made for a mass produced frame. It doesn't ahve front fender eyelets either.

If it was in my area and fit me I'd pay $200 in a heartbeat. If I find it in St. Louis area you better move fast .


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## alpka (Apr 4, 2006)

Wow, that's what I wanted to hear. I guess it is tange Champion No 5, which, i gather is hi tensile? Is that right? Does it matter?


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## Reynolds531 (Nov 8, 2002)

alpka said:


> Wow, that's what I wanted to hear. I guess it is tange Champion No 5, which, i gather is hi tensile? Is that right? Does it matter?


There are erroneous internet sources (imagine that!) that list Tange Champion 5 as hi-tensile steel. I own a bike made with Champion 5 and it is seamless straight gauge Chrome Moly, as shown in the attached pic of the sticker from my bike.

A Champion 5 tubeset only weighed about 200 g more than the butted Champion 3 Touring tubeset.

The fork and stays might be hi-ten, probably not. It's not that big of a deal as long as it has good forged dropouts and forkends.


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## Nielly (Sep 21, 2009)

You should be able to climb a wall with that gearing. That much gap in gearing would drive me insane. If you look real close it looks like maybe there are brazeons for a water bottle on the downtube? Maybe not as there are no others brazeon features. Champion #5 seems to be straight guage cro-mo steel. It looks to have 27 1/4 inch tires? Don't know what tire selection is like in that size. Doesn't look like it was used much (if ever) and real clean.


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## Reynolds531 (Nov 8, 2002)

Nielly said:


> You should be able to climb a wall with that gearing. That much gap in gearing would drive me insane. If you look real close it looks like maybe there are brazeons for a water bottle on the downtube? Maybe not as there are no others brazeon features. Champion #5 seems to be straight guage cro-mo steel. It looks to have 27 1/4 inch tires? Don't know what tire selection is like in that size. Doesn't look like it was used much (if ever) and real clean.


If it indeed has a 1/2 step and granny as it appears, then there's actually very little gap between gears. You just need to double shift alot which takes all of 3 seconds and doesn't matter for touring. The Crankset has two large chainrings, like a 52 and 47. The Front derailleur makes gear jumps of about 10% and the rear derailleur makes gear jumps of 20-25%, hence the Front is a "half-step" of the rear. When you hit a nasty hill, you drop into the granny and can spin up a wall while carrying 40 lbs in your panniers.

You can still get good 27 1/4 inch tires from Nashbar and others, including Panracer Pasela TGs and Continental ultra Gatorskins.


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## rcnute (Dec 21, 2004)

I'm pretty sure I know the seller from Craigslist and have seen that bike before. It really looked great. I was thinking of getting it but it's just too big.


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## Reynolds531 (Nov 8, 2002)

alpka said:


> I found this bike and it is very interesting. But, it is listed as a touring bike. I don't see eyelets on the fork or any brazeons for H2O bottles...
> It is listed as a Shogun 600 touring. Has centerpull brakes, shimano components...
> Any thoughts on this baby?


Just for kicks I found the ad. A few negatives:

it appears to have the old obsolete Mallaird Helicomatic rear hub. Not the best design, and when the cogs wear out you won't be able to find repair parts.

it looks like the seller built up the touring bike from a midrange sports touring frame, which partially explains the lack of fender eyelets, etc. nothing wrong with this and it looks like he might have done a good job, but it wasn't originally a full-on touring bike.

Tires are listed as 28 mm pasela TG's, nice, but check clearance for bigger tires and/or fenders if you plan to use them.

Listed at $180. If it fits you and it meets your needs with the limitations it has maybe offer less and/or see if he has a better rear wheel.


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## alpka (Apr 4, 2006)

thanks for the info. Especially about the hubs. I am assuming the rear spacing is 126. Is that correct? And I have no experience with those brakes but have heard that some retro folks love them.


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## alpka (Apr 4, 2006)

rcnute said:


> I'm pretty sure I know the seller from Craigslist and have seen that bike before. It really looked great. I was thinking of getting it but it's just too big.


Ya, I am pretty psyched that it is my size.


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## rcnute (Dec 21, 2004)

alpka said:


> thanks for the info. Especially about the hubs. I am assuming the rear spacing is 126. Is that correct? And I have no experience with those brakes but have heard that some retro folks love them.


They're good brakes. I had centerpulls on an old Nishiki and they worked fine.


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## alpka (Apr 4, 2006)

Well, it's mine now!! I was really impressed with how it rode and it wasn't near as portly as I was expecting. The rims are 700c, tires are essentially new. Brakes work well and there is a lot of room for fenders or cross tires I can't really get why a bike this size (60cm) has 165mm cranks, but I am thinking a nice single ring set of 180s would be just right.
Thanks for all your info!


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## Nielly (Sep 21, 2009)

165 does seem short especially on a frame that size but shorter cranks would likely help when spinning the small gears. Your feet don't have to go around in as big a circle so you can maintain a higher cadence.


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## alpka (Apr 4, 2006)

So, since I am really ignorant about this kinda stuff. Where would I look for some 180mm cranks, are they common? and what kind of BB is this likely to take...


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## bicyclerepairman (Mar 12, 2003)

It will be easier to find 172.5mm, maybe 175mm. From here, it looks like 180mm will have your toes hitting the front tire when making slow speed turns.


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## alpka (Apr 4, 2006)

Ya, after riding it, I think you are right, thanks.


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## vw_steggie (Mar 27, 2007)

I got 180mm Dura-Ace cranks on my Shogun 1000 and my toes can hit the front tire, but it is very, very rare.


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## alpka (Apr 4, 2006)

Hmmmmmmmmmm... well, let's see... From the pic above, would you say your 1000 and my 600 have similar geo? Maybe exactly the same, I dunno. and are you running 700c or 27"? (Isn't 700c a little smaller?) And what size frame do you have?


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## vw_steggie (Mar 27, 2007)

alpka said:


> Hmmmmmmmmmm... well, let's see... From the pic above, would you say your 1000 and my 600 have similar geo? Maybe exactly the same, I dunno. and are you running 700c or 27"? (Isn't 700c a little smaller?) And what size frame do you have?


It has 700c wheels, 58c-c seat tube and 56c-c top tube. It originally had 175mm cranks, but I wanted to try something different.


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