# A(nother) first road bike question - Wilier/Giant



## tarius (May 26, 2011)

I’m new here, but I’ve been reading for quite a while and I’m hoping someone could offer a some advice before I send away my hard earned $2k 
First, I figured out NOT to buy my bike for half price @ Andrian Cycles, Link cycle, or Targin Jaya :idea: LOL

Second, I (think I) have it narrowed down to:
A) Wiler Izoard XP Rival ($1799) from Competitive (or maybe step up to Ultegra?) OR 
B)Giant Defy 3 Advanced 105 ($1930) from a LBS

I plan to ride some 10-50 mile charity rides and I ride a lot for fun whenever time permits. I don’t plan to “compete” in races but I don’t want a slow lounge chair either  I enjoy going fast...I hear how important “whatever fits best” is but there are NO Wilier dealers near Columbus, Ohio. So I understand there is some risk involved.  I also love that almost no one in my area owns a Wilier, but it’s not just about looks It gets great reviews from everyone here as well. One bike LBS tried to tell me “Those are really racy and uncomfortable” and not as good of a frame as the Giant. I believe the Defy is designed with a higher headtube for more “comfort” but is a Wilier that “racy” for what I want to do?

(I’ve tested a ccad10 (felt nice for a short test ride) and a Trek Madone 2.1 and I currently own a single/fixed Charge Plug and do 15mi rides)

Can you offer some insight between these 2 or should I be considering something else in deciding on my first bike? 

Thank you in advance for your time and wisdom :thumbsup:


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## PJ352 (Dec 5, 2007)

tarius said:


> I’m new here, but I’ve been reading for quite a while and I’m hoping someone could offer a some advice before I send away my hard earned $2k
> First, I figured out NOT to buy my bike for half price @ Andrian Cycles, Link cycle, or Targin Jaya :idea: LOL
> 
> Second, I (think I) have it narrowed down to:
> ...


Because fit is so important, IMO the ideal is that bikes that you can't test ride are out of contention. As you say, there are elements of risk involved. If you're set on keeping the Willier on your list, there are some things you can do to minimize risk, but even at that, it's not as safe as going with a bike you've been fitted to and ridden.

The geo of the Willier and Giant are different enough that they'll affect fit, so I'd hazard a guess that one would fit you better than another, depending on a number of factors. The Willier is the racier of the two, but whether or not you'd find it _too_ racy or uncomfortable would depend on your anatomy/ flexibility, fitness, riding preferences (among other factors).

Just for general comparison, I looked at a M Giant and an M Willier. Because sizing is fairly arbitrary between manufacturers it's a loose comparison, but some numbers give you an idea of the philosophies of the companies. For example, the head tube length on the Giant is 16.5cm's while the Willier's is 14.5, so (generally speaking and all else being equal) the Willier will have a more aggressive saddle to bar drop. Also, the Giant has what is referred to as a slack seat tube angle, where the Willier's is steep. Depending on your femur length, IMO the Willier might require a different setback post, but that won't be known until your fitting (which, BTW you should definitely have if you go the Willier route). The head tube angle is slightly steeper on the Willier, making for quicker steering. Whether you'd view that as a positive or negative would depend on your preference. There are other more minor differences, but this should give you some idea of the intended uses of the bikes.

Last thought on sizing. If you do decide on a bike that isn't available in your area, I suggest scheduling a fit session with a reputable fitter. You'll need to get your sizing requirements pinned down before ordering, and once the bike arrives, phase 2 (the fitting) will need to be scheduled.

As I mentioned, there are potential pitfalls to ordering sight unseen. If you decide it's not worth the risks, The Giant, Trek and C'dales (among others) are all good bets from established companies with strong warranties. You might want to doublecheck with CC on Willier's, but it looks to be 2 years.
http://www.wilierbikes.co.uk/2011/Warranty - Wilier Bikes.pdf


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## Mr. Versatile (Nov 24, 2005)

Can't comment on the Wilier because I have no experience with it. Actually, I've never even seen one. I have a Giant Defy Advanced. I''m extremely happy with it. It's a responsive, great handling, comfortable bike.


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## PlatyPius (Feb 1, 2009)

Wilier > Giant

IF it fits you properly.


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## xjbaylor (Dec 28, 2006)

The Izoard is one of my favorite bikes as I think you get a ton of bike for the money. However, for your purposes (as you described them) I think you would prefer the Giant Defy or a Specialized Roubaix. For charity rides and the recreational rider the geometry is ideal....if they fit you.


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## tarius (May 26, 2011)

I really appreciate the input from everyone especially PJ352. 

I went to the LBS and rode the Defy Advanced & the TCR Composite, since it’s more similar to the Wilier. I really like them both better than the Cannondale caad 10 I rode a couple weeks ago. The TCR felt similar in geo to my fix, a Charge Plug. Both felt great overall, but the TCR felt a little more responsive (i assume due to the more race geometry & shorter wheel base OR it’s all in my head  ) 

(If I determine the TCR or a racier geo works for me, I’m hoping the Wilier will be less risky to order w/o testing. CCycle also has a satisfaction guarantee for 60 days, which could help )

I like the responsiveness of the racier geo, but there’s no way to know, if I could go a long distance on it until I actually do it on that bike, right? 
OR do you “know right away”? The guy said I could take either for hours if I wanted to, which is pretty cool. 

How long do most people test ride? What should I look for when they are all so impressive? Is it true that I can just switch the stem if it’s too steep after a lot of riding?

I’m pretty flexible and in pretty good shape and plan to do 10-30mi / with the occasional 50 mi rides (hopefully) I want to get riding asap, but I also want to make the right decision. One thing I learned is that I LOVE the feel of carbon for sure! :thumbsup:

Thanks again to anyone with input and suggestions! This site has been extremely helpful - especially the new guy corner for the rookie questions we all ask


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## PJ352 (Dec 5, 2007)

tarius said:


> I really appreciate the input from everyone especially PJ352.
> 
> I went to the LBS and rode the Defy Advanced & the TCR Composite, since it’s more similar to the Wilier. I really like them both better than the Cannondale caad 10 I rode a couple weeks ago. The TCR felt similar in geo to my fix, a Charge Plug. Both felt great overall, but the TCR felt a little more responsive (i assume due to the more race geometry & shorter wheel base OR it’s all in my head  )
> 
> ...


Given that the TCR has a shorter wheelbase and slightly steeper HT angle, it makes sense that it would be more responsive than the Defy, and that's consistent with its intended use (competition). That's not to say the Defy isn't a capable road machine, just that in the specific area of handling, the TCR will be quicker.

While the TCR is _closer_ to the Willier in geo, there are still notable differences - namely in a steeper ST angle when compared to the Giant, so you might want to go back to my original post and reread my comment on how that could affect fit, depending on femur length. Simply put, if the TCR's saddle rail were clamped more or less mid-point, your fit on a 73* ST angle is good, so the Willier might not be the same. OTOH it's possible that the Willier's geo won't pose a fit problem, but we're back to not knowing for sure till your fitted and test ride the bike.

Speaking of test rides, IMO/E you have to get out on the road with the bikes for long enough to put them through their paces - just as if you were heading out on a training ride with your bike. Just how long is fairly subjective, but I'd 'ballpark' it at 45 minutes to an hour, depending on the type of riding you do and how sensitive you are to fit/ feel, ride and handling.

Some points to keep in mind re: CC's 60 day guarantee. If you opt for the Willier, you'll have to take a best guess at sizing. After receiving the bike, ideally you should be fitted to it by a reputable shop, incurring a fee. If after test riding and tweaking fit (if needed), if you ultimately decide to return the bike, you'll have to pay return shipping and (I'm assuming) CC will only refund the purchase price, not shipping (to you). All told, this 'experiment' could cost you ~$150 so be as sure as you can before commiting to this (or any other) online purchsse.


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## pbd (Mar 1, 2011)

Another point to make sure you consider, the Wilier is 1999 at Competitive Cyclist. They had it on sale for 1 day last week at 1799, but as of now it's listed at 1999. No harm in calling to see if they'd still give the lower price, or maybe waive the ~$100 shipping price though.


For the record, my Izoard XP with Rival from CC will be here on Tuesday.  :thumbsup:

Darn UPS, it's actually sitting at the UPS place 3 miles from my house right now, and has been there for 12 hours now, but because of the timing of when it arrived and the holiday on Monday I won't have it until Tuesday. :cryin::mad2:


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