# Need your help to pick!



## gfz84 (Jun 9, 2020)

Hi all,

I am currently deciding between a few road bikes. I am a recreational rider and this will be my first road bike so I have allocated about $600 to $800 for this endeavor. I understand this is the low end as average bikes are around a grand but I figured as a beginner let me see if I enjoy this more before blowing through a 1000 bucks. So while I am not looking for excellent quality, I am still trying to get the best deal possible on a bike with decent specs for a beginner. Youtube is overwhelming so decided to seek advice here. 

About me: Am almost 5'8" and live in a city with occasional trips to suburbs or state parks. Mostly recreational riding and maybe 20-30 miles on the weekends once in a while.

So here are the bikes which I have shortlisted for now:
1. Tommaso Fascino Sport Performance Aluminum Road Bike:
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B07773W832/ref=ox_sc_act_title_1?smid=A3VFOJ1QCSBHXC&psc=1

2. Motobecane Omni Strada Sport Super Road:
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B088ZYHHLL/ref=ox_sc_act_title_2?smid=A37XMQ09GSQCOX&psc=1

3. Schwinn Fastback 2 (or the Al Claris)
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B01M3SVCK6/ref=ox_sc_saved_title_1?smid=ATVPDKIKX0DER&th=1

4. Giant Contend 3
https://www.giant-bicycles.com/us/contend-3

I welcome any other suggestions besides the above posted.

Note: I am aware LBS are highly recommended but the ones in my area don't have anything less than $900 or so. Only one carries the Giant Contend 3 which is why its on the above list. Also, I looked up second hand bikes on craigslist and other outlets online but didn't find much. I also believe I am better off buying a new bike than keep wondering if I overpaid on a used bike with sketchy parts given my limited knowledge base on bikes.

Thanks again!


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## krisdrum (Oct 29, 2007)

I would go for the Giant. Looks to be nicely equipped (full Shimano Claris) and as a beginner I'd want 2 things. Warranty coverage from a reputable company and name recognition for resale. 

It also looks like the cheapest of the options you listed (can't see the prices for the Schwinns). Win/win. 

I don't think you are going to see a big difference between Claris (8 speed) and Sora (9 speed), especially under the riding conditions you described. 

If you find you like road cycling... you'll likely move on from any of these bikes pretty quickly. The Giant frame is likely the only one possibly worth upgrading components on (although I wouldn't be surprised if all these frames are made in the Giant factory). More than likely, you'll be looking to sell either because you've fallen in love and want something nicer or you find it isn't for you and want to move on. You'll be able to get closer to what you paid back with the Giant in my opinion.


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## tlg (May 11, 2011)

The Giant. Hands down the best choice. Get it from your LBS. They can help you with the right size. They'll handle any warranties. 

The Tommaso is junk. Stay away!

The Motobecane is ok, but it's not a road bike. 

The Schwinn is ok. But it's no better than the Giant. Not cheaper. And you don't have support from an LBS.


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## ROAD&DIRT (Mar 27, 2009)

Go with the Giant. Working with your LBS would be the better way to go for a beginner . They can help you with the size, tunes ups, all your questions and possible exchanges with saddle if you don't like what comes on the bike along with any warranties.

Building you confidence and knowledge with the LBS could valuable in the long run


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## Lombard (May 8, 2014)

I concur with the others here on the Giant and finding an LBS that sells Giant. The support from an LBS is priceless - an in-store fitting, follow-up adjustments and warranty support. If you buy online, the bike will need assembly. An LBS will charge extra for assembly and fitting if you bought the bike elsewhere, but these will be on the house if you buy from them.


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## rudge66 (Apr 1, 2019)

gfz84 said:


> Hi all,
> I am currently deciding between a few road bikes. advice here.
> About me: Am almost 5'8"
> Note: I am aware LBS are highly recommended but the ones in my area don't have anything less than $900 or so. Only one carries the Giant Contend 3 which is why its on the above list.
> Thanks again!


 
Buy the best bike you can because you are going to love it. 
Buy the correct size. And buy the bike that suits your road requirement.

Here is what you want to hear... If you fall in love with riding the road, and your bike underperforms your ability, then you need another bike. 
If you bought a bike that underperforms, you will soon have two bikes. 
Starter Bike $ + New Bike $ = [email protected]&!?% 

I like the Giant recommendations Rim breaks... but you should 'Shoot for the Stars.. and have faith in your endeavor. Start with 105 at a minimum.


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## Lombard (May 8, 2014)

rudge66 said:


> Starter Bike $ + New Bike $ = [email protected]&!?%


You clearly do not understand the concept of n+1. Go sit in the corner!


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## rudge66 (Apr 1, 2019)

its all about relationship with your bike , and for a newbee 105 is where I would bee


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## Lombard (May 8, 2014)

rudge66 said:


> its all about relationship with your bike , and for a newbee 105 is where I would bee


The OP specifically mentioned his budget is $600-800. You won't find a new 105 bike for that unless everything else on it is junk.


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## probe1957 (Apr 10, 2009)

rudge66 said:


> Start with 105 at a minimum.


 By all means, please recommend a bike for the OP with 105 components and in his $600-$800 price range.


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## tlg (May 11, 2011)

rudge66 said:


> for a newbee 105 is *where I would bee*


If YOU are looking for a bike with 105 you could start your thread. The OP however is looking for a bike in the $600 to $800 price range.


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## rudge66 (Apr 1, 2019)

I'm just trying to save OP $800. BuyRight, BuyOnce Rule Of Saving.
I get having a budget, and shaving cost etc. but I don't want to throw good money after bad.


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## rudge66 (Apr 1, 2019)

_If YOU are looking for a bike with 105 you could start your thread. The OP however is looking for a bike in the $600 to $800 price range.
_

Thank you for your suggestion.
I could give review of Claris vs 105, perhaps you could as well.
To the point: Claris is limited in its performance qualities and feedback. 
The OP should know that don't ya think?


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## Lombard (May 8, 2014)

rudge66 said:


> I'm just trying to save OP $800. BuyRight, BuyOnce Rule Of Saving.
> I get having a budget, and shaving cost etc. but I don't want to throw good money after bad.


So you are saying he should wait a year or more until he can afford a more expensive bike? So keep in mind that he is unable to ride during that whole time. Time is money. Also keep in mind bikes can always be sold when you "outgrow" them. 

So taking your advice, I should live in a tent until I can find my dream house, right? :idea:


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## gfz84 (Jun 9, 2020)

Thanks everyone for the suggestions here. Unfortunately the Giant is out of stock at the LBSs. So my options pretty much at this point are to buy online and take it to LBS to get it assembled and tuned up. Another bummer is with the exception of Schwinn, most other "name brands" don't have anything online at the price point I would like either. So eventually my options have narrowed down to Motobecane Omni Starda Sport Vs the Bulls Grinder 1. I am actually leaning towards the latter given the solid reputation of the German brand, lifetime frame warranty and Shimano Sora vs Claris on the Motobecane. Ofcourse, the Bulls bike is $300 more which includes shipping of $120. Both are not your traditional road bikes and more endurance/gravel geometry. My thought process being I can always put road bike tires on either bike to give me that speed fix (I am not going to be racing anyways at this point) but looking to get something more like an all-terrain bike.

Motobecane Omni Strada ($679 on Amazon): 

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B088ZYHHLL/ref=cm_sw_r_other_apa_i_whd5Eb8M4RDA7

Bulls Grinder 1 ($899 +$120 shipping on eBay)
https://www.ebay.com/itm/2020-BULLS...455247?hash=item3da46a9c0f:g:zncAAOSw87xe1phU

Does anybody have any experience with Motobecane bikes? Their warranty claim is factory warranty and I am not sure what that means.

Appreciate your thoughts and thanks for suggestions again!

G


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## rudge66 (Apr 1, 2019)

Low-end Mechanical Disk Break's are junk. Eventually a real pain in the ass.

That's my experience. Unfortunately, now's not the best time to find good deals on bikes. 

You get what you pay for, and if you can avoid mech disk and have rim break option your better off .


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## Lombard (May 8, 2014)

gfz84 said:


> Thanks everyone for the suggestions here. Unfortunately the Giant is out of stock at the LBSs. So my options pretty much at this point are to buy online and take it to LBS to get it assembled and tuned up. Another bummer is with the exception of Schwinn, most other "name brands" don't have anything online at the price point I would like either. So eventually my options have narrowed down to Motobecane Omni Starda Sport Vs the Bulls Grinder 1. I am actually leaning towards the latter given the solid reputation of the German brand, lifetime frame warranty and Shimano Sora vs Claris on the Motobecane. Ofcourse, the Bulls bike is $300 more which includes shipping of $120. Both are not your traditional road bikes and more endurance/gravel geometry. My thought process being I can always put road bike tires on either bike to give me that speed fix (I am not going to be racing anyways at this point) but looking to get something more like an all-terrain bike.
> 
> Motobecane Omni Strada ($679 on Amazon):
> 
> ...


Oh, glad we didn't lose you. I was afraid our bickering might have scared you away.  

Motobecane like Schwinn were both once high quality brands. They are now both budget brands sold either online or at big box stores. 

Never heard of Bulls bikes, but did a Google search and found them:

https://www.bulls-bikes.com/produkt/bulls-grinder1-524-30649?sku=524-30649_ZEG 

Though this pushes your budget up over $1000, but you get Sora rather than entry-level Claris.

If you are interested in gravel bikes, the Jamis Renegade is a very good one if you can find a shop near you that sells them. They start at $800 and go up from there:

https://www.jamisbikes.com/usa/renegadeseries.html


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## gfz84 (Jun 9, 2020)

Thanks, will keep that in mind. You are right that this is the worst time to buy a bike but I really need something even if it stretches my budget a little bit. Which is why itI feelbfeel it is important to get something which could give me a good resale value even if it costs me a little more now.


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## gfz84 (Jun 9, 2020)

Lombard said:


> Oh, glad we didn't lose you. I was afraid our bickering might have scared you away.
> 
> Motobecane like Schwinn were both once high quality brands. They are now both budget brands sold either online or at big box stores.
> 
> ...


It's all good..I am a dad of a 2 year old so my tolerance level is pretty high..lol.
I looked up Jamis..seems the ones in my range have Claris groupsets. 😟
Any thoughts on this Marin bike:
https://www.bikebling.com/Marin-Lom...m_source=googlebase&utm_medium=shoppingengine

Looks comparable to the Bulls bike?


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## tlg (May 11, 2011)

rudge66 said:


> I could give review of Claris vs 105, perhaps you could as well.
> To the point: Claris is limited in its performance qualities and feedback.
> The OP should know that don't ya think?


Feel free to start your own thread about the performance qualities and feedback of Claris vs 105. Whatever 'feedback' is. 

No, I don't think the OP really cares since that's not the advice he was seeking. He's looking for a bike for "recreational riding and maybe 20-30 miles on the weekends once in a while". The Giant with Claris will meet that. 





Lombard said:


> So taking your advice, I should live in a tent until I can find my dream house, right? :idea:


No, that's not what he's saying. He's saying you should have no home until you can save up for the one with the best qualities.


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## Lombard (May 8, 2014)

gfz84 said:


> It's all good..I am a dad of a 2 year old so my tolerance level is pretty high..lol.
> I looked up Jamis..seems the ones in my range have Claris groupsets. 
> Any thoughts on this Marin bike:
> https://www.bikebling.com/Marin-Lom...m_source=googlebase&utm_medium=shoppingengine
> ...


The Marin Lombard 1? How could I not like a bike named after me?  

Seriously, Marin is a known reputable brand, you're getting Sora which is better than Claris and I like the gearing 46/30 Crank, 11-34T - with that you could climb just about any hill! At $850, that bike is a pretty good buy.

BTW, have you test ridden any bikes from bike shops? I ask this because no matter how good a bike looks in online ads and no matter how much research you do, it all comes down to feel and fit as to whether you will like the bike or not.


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## Lombard (May 8, 2014)

tlg said:


> No, that's not what he's saying. He's saying you should have no home until you can save up for the one with the best qualities.


Oh come on! That cardboard box is getting old, soggy and beat up!


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## rudge66 (Apr 1, 2019)

Headed in the right direction ... Let's hear about that fine Carbon bike with Sram Etap /Ultegra Di you just bought.


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## Lombard (May 8, 2014)

rudge66 said:


> Headed in the right direction ... Let's hear about that fine Carbon bike with Sram Etap /Ultegra Di you just bought.


Your posts make less and less sense every day. ut:


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## gfz84 (Jun 9, 2020)

Lombard said:


> The Marin Lombard 1? How could I not like a bike named after me?
> 
> Seriously, Marin is a known reputable brand, you're getting Sora which is better than Claris and I like the gearing 46/30 Crank, 11-34T - with that you could climb just about any hill! At $850, that bike is a pretty good buy.
> 
> BTW, have you test ridden any bikes from bike shops? I ask this because no matter how good a bike looks in online ads and no matter how much research you do, it all comes down to feel and fit as to whether you will like the bike or not.


I am actually planning to go to my LBS to get "fit" services. It's right now between the Bulls Grinder 1 and the Lombard 1 as both have similar specs though Bulls seems to have a slight edge here (full Shimano groupset). Based on their geometries, I should probably get a 52 on the Bulls or a 54 on the Lombard as effective top tubes are almost the same in both these sizes. The Bulls is a little more upright and has a longer head tube and higher standover height than the Lombard. It doesn't help that neither of these is in a LBS for me to check them personally and decide so I'll just have to make an educated guess.

At least you and the others here prevented me to settle with a Claris groupset so definitely this has been helpful so far...lol


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## rudge66 (Apr 1, 2019)

gfz84 said:


> I am actually planning to go to my LBS to get "fit" services.
> At least you and the others here prevented me to settle with a Claris groupset so definitely this has been helpful so far...lol



I strongly advocate that you fit yourself. Suggestions and general impressions from a LBS maybe helpful to get you started free of charge. But a scheduled full blown Road Bike Fit : are for riders who can't figure it out for themselves, need help with a serious problem

I'm a firm believer in understanding your own fit, and perfecting that on your own. Tweaks are a part of the learning curve that you do to get it right.

So save the fit for later when you have an unsurmountable issue. 

(Large type for pupet Lombard)

Also, Head's Up, and your body's up too. A bike with a tall head will not get you focused on ... the road


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## krisdrum (Oct 29, 2007)

gfz84 said:


> as effective top tubes are almost the same in both these sizes.
> 
> At least you and the others here prevented me to settle with a Claris groupset so definitely this has been helpful so far...lol


But STA are not. That 0.25 degrees may make a difference. The BULLS has a slacker angle and a shorter top tube. That will shorten the cockpit up. The Marin has a steeper angle and longer top tube, which will make the cockpit more stretched out. About 1cm for every 1 degree of difference if everything else is more or less the same. 

Listen, if you can get Sora at your budget, go for it, but I don't think for your needs you'd see a huge difference. But that is me.


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## gfz84 (Jun 9, 2020)

krisdrum said:


> But STA are not. That 0.25 degrees may make a difference. The BULLS has a slacker angle and a shorter top tube. That will shorten the cockpit up. The Marin has a steeper angle and longer top tube, which will make the cockpit more stretched out. About 1cm for every 1 degree of difference if everything else is more or less the same.
> 
> Listen, if you can get Sora at your budget, go for it, but I don't think for your needs you'd see a huge difference. But that is me.


Fair point. I also calc'd the stack to reach ratio of the Bulls to be at 1.57 Vs 1.49 for the Marin bike. I have average length legs for my height (any thoughts on this)?

I am also going to throw in another contender given the price point of $799.

https://www.dickssportinggoods.com/...grdsprtxbac/18gtxa700grdsprtxbac?sku=18723600

8-speed Claris, external cables..and 34 lbs.


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## rudge66 (Apr 1, 2019)

Carbon Time


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## Lombard (May 8, 2014)

gfz84 said:


> I am also going to throw in another contender given the price point of $799.
> 
> https://www.dickssportinggoods.com/...grdsprtxbac/18gtxa700grdsprtxbac?sku=18723600
> 
> 8-speed Claris, external cables..and 34 lbs.


GT is a good brand. I really have to question that 34lb. weight. Either a mistake or the whole shipping weight.


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## Lombard (May 8, 2014)

rudge66 said:


> Carbon Time


You need to stop trolling and go back to your circus/carnival management career.


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## tlg (May 11, 2011)

rudge66 said:


> I strongly advocate that you fit yourself. Suggestions and general impressions from a LBS maybe helpful to get you started free of charge. But a scheduled full blown Road Bike Fit : are for riders who can't figure it out for themselves, need help with a serious problem


The problem is bike fitting isn't a science (as much as they pretend it is). It's an art. You can go to 3 different professional fitters and come out with three different set ups. 

As a 'recreational rider maybe riding 20-30 miles on the weekends once in a while' a professional fitting isn't all that important.


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## gfz84 (Jun 9, 2020)

Lombard said:


> GT is a good brand. I really have to question that 34lb. weight. Either a mistake or the whole shipping weight.


you are right. Just checked with Dick's. It's 24 lbs.


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## gfz84 (Jun 9, 2020)

tlg said:


> The problem is bike fitting isn't a science (as much as they pretend it is). It's an art. You can go to 3 different professional fitters and come out with three different set ups.
> 
> As a 'recreational rider maybe riding 20-30 miles on the weekends once in a while' a professional fitting isn't all that important.


So this is the geometry of the bike:
https://www.gtbicycles.com/usa_en/gorogue/

I am planning to get the 53cms. Based on the standover height of 772mm..(~30 inches) this should be my size. However, bike tech at DSG says this would be too big for me as he himself is 6'1 and the top bar is almost up to his crotch. Another bike tech at another DSG store and a rep from GT bikes said 53cm would be fine for me. In the absence of proper fit services, how would you determine if the size you are ordering is right or not given the above info?


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## rudge66 (Apr 1, 2019)

RE Frame Size, consider your flexability and torso length. You essentially want to be on the smallest frame in your range. 

I gotta hand it to you for coming out with some fairly obscure (to me) brands.


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## gfz84 (Jun 9, 2020)

rudge66 said:


> RE Frame Size, consider your flexability and torso length. You essentially want to be on the smallest frame in your range.
> 
> I gotta hand it to you for coming out with some fairly obscure (to me) brands.


Sorry I am not baller enough to afford a 105 carbon frame. Didn't know Marin, GT, Bulls were obscure brands.. thank god I am not racing you anytime soon.


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## rudge66 (Apr 1, 2019)

I other words to be more clear, the 53 may indeed be a bit large for you. That's what first crossed my mind.

I, as well as many others, have made all the mistakes you're about to make. 
My starter bike was Motobacane Turino Elite. Too heavy, too big, too tall HT, and while 8 speed Claris function's perfectly every shift, so does the inertia of momentum drop. Every shift. It became my winter bike until I realized it was a waste of time and throughly unenjoyable ride. 
Now I'm a fan of quality carbon frames, and high spec components.


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## tlg (May 11, 2011)

gfz84 said:


> Sorry I am not baller enough to afford a 105 carbon frame. Didn't know Marin, GT, Bulls were obscure brands..


Anyone who thinks Marin & GT are obscure, ain't been around much.

They specialize mostly in off road bikes. The GT Zaskar is one of the most iconic MTB's of all time.


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## tlg (May 11, 2011)

rudge66 said:


> My starter bike was Motobacane Turino Elite. Too heavy, too big, too tall HT, and while 8 speed Claris function's perfectly every shift, so does the inertia of momentum drop.


What in the world are you talking about? You mean the Moment of Inertia? How?


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## krisdrum (Oct 29, 2007)

OP, you said you are 5-8. By comparison I'm 5-5, 5-6 on a good day. Relatively short legs (about 28" inseam) and my custom road frame spec was 51.5cm top tube, with a 75 STA, 100cm stem and 15mm setback post. Sizing is often about trade offs. You can do a longer top tube, but then you'll need a shorter stem and that can impact your handling. Bigger frame has a taller headtube, so you can't get bars as low and will typically be more upright. Frame I am on now is a 53cm TT, 73.5 STA and same stem and post. I'd probably look at frames 1 size up from me, for you, unless your body proportions are way different. I'd probably go for the 51cm in the GT Grade or smaller. That headtube is a bit long, maybe I'd go down a size and run a longer stem.


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## Lombard (May 8, 2014)

gfz84 said:


> you are right. Just checked with Dick's. It's 24 lbs.


That makes a lot more sense. My 2017 Jamis Renegade Exploit with a Reynolds 631 frame is 23lbs. 24 is not a lot for a gravel bike and when I was shopping for a gravel bike, I was considering the GT Grade. I crossed it off my list because it had a max tire clearance of 35mm. That's something to consider if you think you may want to run wider tires. If not, the Grade is a worthy choice.


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## Lombard (May 8, 2014)

tlg said:


> Anyone who thinks Marin & GT are obscure, ain't been around much.





tlg said:


> They specialize mostly in off road bikes. The GT Zaskar is one of the most iconic MTB's of all time.






tlg said:


> *What in the world are you talking about?* You mean the Moment of Inertia? How?


Rudge66 is clueless. The guy who likes to sound like he knows so much and professes that a beginner should buy a high-end bike has never heard of two fairly well-known brands of bikes. Hmmmm.


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## gfz84 (Jun 9, 2020)

Thanks for the recco. There's only 53 or 55 as options. A little upright is fine with me as I will take comfort over speed/aero.


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## gfz84 (Jun 9, 2020)

Lombard said:


> That makes a lot more sense. My 2017 Jamis Renegade Exploit with a Reynolds 631 frame is 23lbs. 24 is not a lot for a gravel bike and when I was shopping for a gravel bike, I was considering the GT Grade. I crossed it off my list because it had a max tire clearance of 35mm. That's something to consider if you think you may want to run wider tires. If not, the Grade is a worthy choice.


Hmm, I am almost 80% made up to buy the GT Grade. 35mm should be good enough for me. Like I said, most of my riding will be city roads with some gravel paths in state parks so that passes the check. I am just torn if I should go for the Bulls Grinder 1 bike or this one. The Marin wont be shipped out until late Oct so I have ruled that out. The Bulls all-in is $220 more than the GT but comes with Sora, wider tires, internal cabling etc. But i like the GT triple triangle frame and the overall geometry better..decisions..decisions..decisions!


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## gfz84 (Jun 9, 2020)

Alright guys, I just pulled the trigger and ordered the GT Grade bike in 53. The bike should be here in a week. 

As a last piece of advice, since DSG offers free in store assembly for all of its bikes, I am wondering if I should instead just take it to my LBS for assembly instead. Although it will set me back by $60, I think they will do a better job of adjusting my fit to the bike. Any inputs or experience with DSG assembly services are much appreciated!


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## rudge66 (Apr 1, 2019)

krisdrum said:


> OP, you said you are 5-8. By comparison I'm 5-5, 5-6 on a good day. Relatively short legs (about 28" inseam) and my custom road frame spec was 51.5cm top tube, with a 75 STA, 100cm stem and 15mm setback post. Sizing is often about trade offs. You can do a longer top tube, but then you'll need a shorter stem and that can impact your handling. Bigger frame has a taller headtube, so you can't get bars as low and will typically be more upright. Frame I am on now is a 53cm TT, 73.5 STA and same stem and post. I'd probably look at frames 1 size up from me, for you, unless your body proportions are way different. I'd probably go for the 51cm in the GT Grade or smaller. That headtube is a bit long, maybe I'd go down a size and run a longer stem.


Well said. I Agree.
Most size mistakes are sizing up when you should be sizing down.
That's all part of the learning curve too.


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## rudge66 (Apr 1, 2019)

gfz84 said:


> As a last piece of advice, since DSG offers free in store assembly for all of its bikes, I am wondering if I should instead just take it to my LBS for assembly instead. Although it will set me back by $60, I think they will do a better job of adjusting my fit to the bike. Any inputs or experience with DSG assembly services are much appreciated!


 Take it to Dicks and pocket your $60 ...save your LBS the insult.


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## Lombard (May 8, 2014)

gfz84 said:


> Alright guys, I just pulled the trigger and ordered the GT Grade bike in 53. The bike should be here in a week.
> 
> As a last piece of advice, since DSG offers free in store assembly for all of its bikes, I am wondering if I should instead just take it to my LBS for assembly instead. Although it will set me back by $60, I think they will do a better job of adjusting my fit to the bike. Any inputs or experience with DSG assembly services are much appreciated!


Good choice with the Grade! Geometry is important as it will determine your comfort and enjoyment of the bike. And external cables are way easier to change when you need to - personally I prefer external cables.

Personally I would spend the extra $60 to have your LBS assemble the bike properly. They will almost certainly do a better job than Dick's. $60 is actually a bargain, most shops will charge $100-200 for an assembly if you bought the bike elsewhere. And while you're at your LBS, get a fit too.


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## Lombard (May 8, 2014)

rudge66 said:


> Take it to Dicks and pocket your $60 ...save your LBS the insult.


And what makes you think the LBS will be insulted? They assemble "outside" bikes all the time. It's a source of income.


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## gfz84 (Jun 9, 2020)

Lombard said:


> Good choice with the Grade! Geometry is important as it will determine your comfort and enjoyment of the bike. And external cables are way easier to change when you need to - personally I prefer external cables.
> 
> Personally I would spend the extra $60 to have your LBS assemble the bike properly. They will almost certainly do a better job than Dick's. $60 is actually a bargain, most shops will charge $100-200 for an assembly if you bought the bike elsewhere. And while you're at your LBS, get a fit too.


Thanks! I will be taking to the LBS for sure. There isn't a DSG store near me anyways. I plan on putting 35mm tires when fall comes and get used to the handling in the meantime. Maybe after some time I can consider upgrading the Claris groupset to 105 (if needed) and I may finally get some respect from rudge66


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## pmf (Feb 23, 2004)

Lombard said:


> Personally I would spend the extra $60 to have your LBS assemble the bike properly. They will almost certainly do a better job than Dick's. $60 is actually a bargain, most shops will charge $100-200 for an assembly if you bought the bike elsewhere. And while you're at your LBS, get a fit too.


For $60, it must be pretty minimal assembly. My LBS charges that for a derailer adjustment. Full build is $200.


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## tlg (May 11, 2011)

pmf said:


> For $60, it must be pretty minimal assembly. My LBS charges that for a derailer adjustment. Full build is $200.


A bike that's boxed to be delivered to Dick's Sporting Goods should be pretty much fully assembled. Mount the front wheel. Mount the handlebars. Install pedals. Check the shifting. It's 10-15min work.


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## Lombard (May 8, 2014)

tlg said:


> A bike that's boxed to be delivered to Dick's Sporting Goods should be pretty much fully assembled. Mount the front wheel. Mount the handlebars. Install pedals. Check the shifting. It's 10-15min work.


That is for someone who is competent. I question whether someone who works at Dick's is competent enough to adjust everything right - torque bolts, follow tightening sequence, set up shifting correctly. They're like the Wal-Mart of sports stores.


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## tlg (May 11, 2011)

Lombard said:


> That is for someone who is competent. I question whether someone who works at Dick's is competent enough to adjust everything right - torque bolts, follow tightening sequence, set up shifting correctly. They're like the Wal-Mart of sports stores.


I was talking about $60 at the LBS. It's 10-15min work for them. It's not a full $bike build.


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## Lombard (May 8, 2014)

tlg said:


> I was talking about $60 at the LBS. It's 10-15min work for them. It's not a full $bike build.


I would guess that depends on the amount of assembly done already. I can't say I've ever heard of an LBS charging less than $100.


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## krisdrum (Oct 29, 2007)

OP, do the work yourself. It will be a great way to bond with your new bike and you'll learn a ton. Everything you need is on YouTube. Look everything over with a critical eye and take your time. I know you'll be excited to go ride, but maintenance is a part of ownership in my opinion, might as well start getting involved right off the bat. I have found as much joy in assembly and adjustment of my bike as I have in riding it.


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## tlg (May 11, 2011)

Lombard said:


> I would guess that depends on the amount of assembly done already.


Like I said, Mount the front wheel. Mount the handlebars. Install pedals. Check the shifting.


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## gfz84 (Jun 9, 2020)

Lombard said:


> I would guess that depends on the amount of assembly done already. I can't say I've ever heard of an LBS charging less than $100.


It's actually $80 for road bikes. $60 was for basic assembly. Still not bad compared to all the prices posted here.


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## Lombard (May 8, 2014)

tlg said:


> Like I said, Mount the front wheel. Mount the handlebars. Install pedals. Check the shifting.


You are overestimating the ability of someone Dick's hires off the street.



gfz84 said:


> It's actually $80 for road bikes. $60 was for basic assembly. Still not bad compared to all the prices posted here.


How much do they charge for a fit?


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## gfz84 (Jun 9, 2020)

Lombard said:


> You are overestimating the ability of someone Dick's hires off the street.
> 
> 
> 
> How much do they charge for a fit?


Basic fit including adjusting saddle height and saddle position (fore and aft), as well as stem and bar position and reach: $75

Advanced fit including a pre-fit analysis of flexibility, previous injury, and arch support requirements, assessing and adjusting cleat position, saddle position, handlebar width, stem length, shift lever placement, and an evaluation of pedaling technique: $175


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## gfz84 (Jun 9, 2020)

krisdrum said:


> OP, do the work yourself. It will be a great way to bond with your new bike and you'll learn a ton. Everything you need is on YouTube. Look everything over with a critical eye and take your time. I know you'll be excited to go ride, but maintenance is a part of ownership in my opinion, might as well start getting involved right off the bat. I have found as much joy in assembly and adjustment of my bike as I have in riding it.


Trust me I would love to but I live in a apartment and don't have any outside space at my disposal. Plus, I don' want a 2-yr old exposed to nuts, bolts and tools lying around or butting in every 2 mins. Just a gentle reminder of the times we are living in these days.


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## tlg (May 11, 2011)

Lombard said:


> You are overestimating the ability of someone Dick's hires off the street.


:mad2: I'm not talking about Dicks. I'm talking about the LBS.



tlg said:


> I was talking about $60 at the LBS. It's 10-15min work for them.


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## rudge66 (Apr 1, 2019)

gfz84 said:


> Maybe after some time I can consider upgrading the Claris groupset to 105 (if needed) and I may finally get some respect from rudge66


I sincerely wish you well with your bike, but in no way do I advocate you upgrade your groupset on this bike. That would violate principle #2.

I hope in the future you have the opportunity to have a few good rides on a high spec road specific bike of the correct size for your reference.


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## krisdrum (Oct 29, 2007)

Fully aware of the times we are living in. I worked on my bike in my apt bedroom for years. But I understand where you are coming from. Heck, get your 2-year old to be your assistant. Hold the wrenches. Get you a towel. I doubt there will be any loose nuts/bolts in the process, as you seldom fully remove something. It is more often loosening things up so you can fit/attach and then re-tighten. It could be fun.


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## Lombard (May 8, 2014)

rudge66 said:


> That would violate principle #2.


Do I dare ask??


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## gfz84 (Jun 9, 2020)

rudge66 said:


> I sincerely wish you well with your bike, but in no way do I advocate you upgrade your groupset on this bike. That would violate principle #2.
> 
> I hope in the future you have the opportunity to have a few good rides on a high spec road specific bike of the correct size for your reference.


I enjoy nice things in life where, if and when I see a need. From the outset, I have stated my objective to be clear - this is for recreational riding. IF I enjoy it, I will absolutely upgrade to a better more expensive bike in the future. Having said that, I am convinced what I bought is not a piece of junk or even entry level bare minimum. Based on your philosophy, everybody should wait around to save enough to buy a Porsche and if not, just walk?

I honestly could care less what your principle #2 is and you can shove it where it's warm and fuzzy.


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## rudge66 (Apr 1, 2019)

Holy Ravioli ... that's a little creepy, lets' show a little more decorum; and practice 
self-control. 

You are the one who joined (RBR) asking for help about your new bike purchase. We all gave you our best advice. 

We did our job holding your hand, and guiding you through your questions and concerns. 
That's what you ask for, and thats what you received.
You were given some excellent perspectives.

The yellow flags started waving when you didn't understand the overwhelming advice to interact with your LBS.. You bought your bike from Dick's a Big Box Store.Then you wanted even more hand- holding, about bike fit and size frame. and assembly ?
The Red Flag for me, was when you posted .. . " _Plus, I don' want a 2-yr old exposed to nuts, bolts and tools lying around or butting in every 2 mins._* "
*I was completely stunned by that statement.*
*Why try to earn my/our respect when you can't even deal with your kid? 
so maybe...?

#3 Allow Your Child Too Participate Your Challenges..


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## gfz84 (Jun 9, 2020)

rudge66 said:


> Holy Ravioli ... that's a little creepy, lets' show a little more decorum; and practice
> self-control.
> 
> You are the one who joined (RBR) asking for help about your new bike purchase. We all gave you our best advice.
> ...


Let me just say that I got a lot of good suggestions which helped me reach a decision by everyone who posted here except you. I can't see anything useful in whatever you posted. Its counterproductive to go back and forth with you and send useless notifications to people who posted on this thread as my purpose here has been served and the mod can close or delete the thread if they so wish. Lastly, do yourself a favor, and dont offer advice to rookies if you don't what they are looking for. Not everyone likes a steak. Some people like a hamburger. Some people like both.

Adios.


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## rudge66 (Apr 1, 2019)

#9 Let Simmer On Low.


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## Lombard (May 8, 2014)

rudge66 said:


> I did my best on your behalf. Sorry to call you out on your stress Holy Ravioli ... lets' show a little more decorum: and practice self control.
> 
> You are the one who joined (RBR) asking for help about your new bike purchase. We all gave you our best advice.
> 
> ...


Dude, you really need to take a chill pill, or at least pay attention. The OP DID take the advice to interact with his LBS. And really, could you not tell that his remark about  needing "to earn my respect by up grading to 105..." was tongue in cheek? Do we need to take a collection to buy you a sarcasm detector? You are one confused little man. ut:


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## tlg (May 11, 2011)

Lombard said:


> Dude, you really need to take a chill pill, or at least pay attention. The OP DID take the advice to interact with his LBS. And really, could you not tell that his remark about  needing "to earn my respect by up grading to 105..." was tongue in cheek? Do we need to take a collection to buy you a sarcasm detector? You are one confused little man. ut:


Yup. OP took lots of advice. He's just butthurt the OP didn't take 'his' advice.


----------



## Lombard (May 8, 2014)

tlg said:


> Yup. OP took lots of advice. He's just butthurt the OP didn't take 'his' advice.


Maybe we need to send Rudge66 some of this:


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## rudge66 (Apr 1, 2019)

Buy the right size... not the next size up...._T*here's only 53 or 55 as options.*

_Don't come back saying it fits perfectly. Or how do _you_ know? Perfect is the correct size. Sure you can ride a frame 53 when you should be on a 51.
That's common mistake that's repeated over and over again by new riders. Buying the size up when they should be the next size down.

_*OP---*However, bike tech at DSG says this would be too big for me as he himself is 6'1** and the top bar is almost up to his crotch. Another bike tech at another DSG store and a rep from GT bikes said 53cm would be fine for me. *In the absence of proper fit services, how would you determine if the size you are ordering is right or not given the above info?

*_Good question.
You were given a sound reply.._.
_


krisdrum said:


> OP, you said you are 5-8. By comparison I'm 5-5, 5-6 on a good day. Relatively short legs (about 28" inseam) and my custom road frame spec was 51.5cm top tube, with a 75 STA, 100cm stem and 15mm setback post. Sizing is often about trade offs. You can do a longer top tube, but then you'll need a shorter stem and that can impact your handling. Bigger frame has a taller headtube, so you can't get bars as low and will typically be more upright. Frame I am on now is a 53cm TT, 73.5 STA and same stem and post. I'd probably look at frames 1 size up from me, for you, unless your body proportions are way different.* I'd probably go for the 51cm in the GT Grade or smaller*. *That headtube is a bit long*, maybe I'd go down a size and run a longer stem.


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## krisdrum (Oct 29, 2007)

Taking my input out of context. There was no prescriptive advice for the OP. I was NOT suggesting the OP buy a 51cm. I was suggesting I might buy one if I wanted that bike given how it matched up against my own general frame geometry needs. Nothing more, nothing less. Now I'm a bit shorter than the OP, so what I was suggesting was that he look at frames the next size up from what I might ride and evaluate them for his own needs.


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## Lombard (May 8, 2014)

krisdrum said:


> Taking my input out of context. There was no prescriptive advice for the OP. I was NOT suggesting the OP buy a 51cm. I was suggesting I might buy one if I wanted that bike given how it matched up against my own general frame geometry needs. Nothing more, nothing less. Now I'm a bit shorter than the OP, so what I was suggesting was that he look at frames the next size up from what I might ride and evaluate them for his own needs.


Exactly. And given the OP stated he was looking for a more upright position, sizing up if he is in between sizes may be prudent as long as the stand over height isn't a nad crusher.

For reference, I am 5' 10' with a 32" inseam and a ride a 56cm frame. A 54 is too small for me.


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## gfz84 (Jun 9, 2020)

Lombard said:


> Exactly. And given the OP stated he was looking for a more upright position, sizing up if he is in between sizes may be prudent as long as the stand over height isn't a nad crusher.
> 
> For reference, I am 5' 10' with a 32" inseam and a ride a 56cm frame. A 54 is too small for me.


Not only did I rely on krisdrum's advice but I also called Dorel Sports which owns GT to get some clarification on the bike size..and the manufacturer is confident the 53cm would be a good fit (they believe the Dick's bike tech was incorrect when he said the 53cm would be big for me). I was particularly concerned the standover would be enough or not as i will be biking in the city mostly and may have to stop frequently at stop lights etc. Their assessment also ties out with the published geometry of the bike which I have looked into and compared with other bikes extensively..so in a nutshell I aggregated all the info I got including the suggestions I got here (excluding rudge66's moronic inputs) and made an informed decision. Obviously, if the bike was in a LBS, I would have, like others suggested, gone ahead and tried the bike out first. Unfortunately, the bike is being shipped from CA as it's not in any DSG store in NJ. 

As stated before, rudge66 is still salty I didn't go with a carbon bike.


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## krisdrum (Oct 29, 2007)

gfz84 said:


> Unfortunately, the bike is being shipped from CA as it's not in any DSG store in NJ.


NJ in the house! Sounds like you live on the river. Great riding heading north through the Palisades into NY. A dead zone for awhile if you head west, but out around Summit and west... it becomes great again.


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## rudge66 (Apr 1, 2019)

gfz84 said:


> As stated before, rudge66 is still salty I didn't go with a carbon bike.


_Salty_ ...Fair enough. You can also include Road Bikes that are built with upright geometry, and wide tires... the whole genre of heavy Relaxed Gravel / Hybrids. 
It all depends on how you ride.


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## rudge66 (Apr 1, 2019)

Lombard said:


> Exactly. And given the OP stated he was looking for a more upright position, sizing up if he is in between sizes may be prudent as long as the stand over height isn't a nad crusher.
> 
> *For reference, I am 5' 10' with a 32" inseam and a ride a 56cm frame*. A 54 is too small for me.


And didn't you post in another thread that you are not able to ride in the drops?


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## Lombard (May 8, 2014)

rudge66 said:


> And didn't you post in another thread that you are not able to ride in the drops?


My neck issues are why I am unable to ride in the drops, not because my frame doesn't fit. As the OP stated, he prefers a more upright position, so I presume he doesn't have a lot of interest in riding in the drops either.


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## rudge66 (Apr 1, 2019)

Lombard said:


> ... sizing up if he is in between sizes may be prudent ...
> .


Sorry, for the sake of new Road Bike Riders seeking advice, I respectfully disagree.


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## gfz84 (Jun 9, 2020)

krisdrum said:


> NJ in the house! Sounds like you live on the river. Great riding heading north through the Palisades into NY. A dead zone for awhile if you head west, but out around Summit and west... it becomes great again.


Haha..yes you are right I live right by the Hudson River in JC. Plan to take my rookie rides around the neighborhood and gradually do some exploring further up north along the river to Weehawken, Edgewater etc. But thanks for the suggestions!


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## gfz84 (Jun 9, 2020)

Lombard said:


> My neck issues are why I am unable to ride in the drops, not because my frame doesn't fit. As the OP stated, he prefers a more upright position, so I presume he doesn't have a lot of interest in riding in the drops either.


Yup. Else I wouldn't have gotten a bikeobike with this type of geometry.


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## rudge66 (Apr 1, 2019)

Lombard said:


> As the OP stated, he prefers a more upright position, so I presume he doesn't have a lot of interest in riding in the drops either.



Huh? Then why buy or ride a road bike with drop bars ?


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## gfz84 (Jun 9, 2020)

rudge66 said:


> Huh? Then why buy or ride a road bike with drop bars ?


So you are now questioning the entire premise of gravel/endurance bikes?


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## krisdrum (Oct 29, 2007)

gfz84 said:


> Haha..yes you are right I live right by the Hudson River in JC. Plan to take my rookie rides around the neighborhood and gradually do some exploring further up north along the river to Weehawken, Edgewater etc. But thanks for the suggestions!


Sounds like you are right near my office (if I ever get to go back there). Nice bike lane infrastructure in place in JC. Not sure what the route would be like, but if you can get up to Palisades Park, near the GW, you can ride through the park for a decent distance, come out on 9W and take that up into Nyack and beyond. LOTS of riders up in that area on any given day, I'd imagine especially now with folks working from home, etc. Very popular road riding.


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## gfz84 (Jun 9, 2020)

krisdrum said:


> Sounds like you are right near my office (if I ever get to go back there). Nice bike lane infrastructure in place in JC. Not sure what the route would be like, but if you can get up to Palisades Park, near the GW, you can ride through the park for a decent distance, come out on 9W and take that up into Nyack and beyond. LOTS of riders up in that area on any given day, I'd imagine especially now with folks working from home, etc. Very popular road riding.


Yeah they have put in several bike lanes at the expense of street parking for cars. Maybe it has to do with the explosion of bikers in the past few months especially citibikes. I honestly much rather bike in the suburbs as its less crowded and scenic compared to here which sometimes looks like a carnival especially during summer months.


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## Lombard (May 8, 2014)

gfz84 said:


> Yeah they have put in several bike lanes at the expense of street parking for cars. Maybe it has to do with the explosion of bikers in the past few months especially citibikes. I honestly much rather bike in the suburbs as its less crowded and scenic compared to here which sometimes looks like a carnival especially during summer months.


Have you ever been to Saddle River Park in Paramus/Glen Rock/Ridgewood? I wouldn't go until the plague is over - especially on weekends, the paths get crowded.

When you get stronger, there are some nice quieter roads through Harriman State Park. They can be hilly though.


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## gfz84 (Jun 9, 2020)

Lombard said:


> Have you ever been to Saddle River Park in Paramus/Glen Rock/Ridgewood? I wouldn't go until the plague is over - especially on weekends, the paths get crowded.
> 
> When you get stronger, there are some nice quieter roads through Harriman State Park. They can be hilly though.


I actually have biked a few times through Saddle River on my old bike. Quite enjoyable back then..it can get crowded for sure but there are some quieter parts in there which I enjoyed. I have family in Branchburg/Somerville which is pretty scenic in itself as its not crammed like North NJ. Plus it has Duke Farms which is pretty nice.


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## gfz84 (Jun 9, 2020)

Lombard said:


> Have you ever been to Saddle River Park in Paramus/Glen Rock/Ridgewood? I wouldn't go until the plague is over - especially on weekends, the paths get crowded.
> 
> When you get stronger, there are some nice quieter roads through Harriman State Park. They can be hilly though.


Talking about hilly and this is general question to the peeps here:
Which casette type is better: a 12-25 or a 11-32? Understand the latter is good for hills but I am not sure if there is a huge relative difference between the two when say climbing a hill with less than 10% grade. I understand the 12-25 means smoother shifting but still trying to understand the trade-off here.
Full disclosure: I have ordered two GT grade bikes: one with 11-32 and one with 12-25 cog set. I just didn't want them to be sold out so ordered them anyway to save time and return one later.


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## rudge66 (Apr 1, 2019)

gfz84 said:


> So you are now questioning the entire premise of gravel/endurance bikes?



Yes. Right again... I've have a habit of doing that , fairly consistently. 

When you said you wanted a road bike to do twenty / thirty mile rides , I got a little excited. I focused on that part of your interest. I didn't think you wanted to poke along; a relaxed geometry , heavy, upright frame, with 35mm tires.
Long Story Short... I'm indeed befuddled.


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## Lombard (May 8, 2014)

rudge66 said:


> Yes. Right again... I've have a habit of doing that , fairly consistently.
> 
> When you said you wanted a road bike to do twenty / thirty mile rides , I got a little excited. I focused on that part of your interest. I didn't think you wanted to *poke along*; a relaxed geometry , *heavy, upright frame, with 35mm tires*.
> Long Story Short... I'm indeed befuddled.


Poke along, really? Have you actually ridden a recent gravel or endurance bike? How much faster do you really think your average speed will be on a slammed down race bike vs. an endurance or gravel bike? These are not yesteryear's hybrids.


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## krisdrum (Oct 29, 2007)

gfz84 said:


> Talking about hilly and this is general question to the peeps here:
> Which casette type is better: a 12-25 or a 11-32? Understand the latter is good for hills but I am not sure if there is a huge relative difference between the two when say climbing a hill with less than 10% grade. I understand the 12-25 means smoother shifting but still trying to understand the trade-off here.
> Full disclosure: I have ordered two GT grade bikes: one with 11-32 and one with 12-25 cog set. I just didn't want them to be sold out so ordered them anyway to save time and return one later.


12-25 seems like an odd spec for a bike like this. Although with an 8 speed rear, I can see how it makes sense, to reduce the jump in teeth between shifts. Gear range is about cadence (how many times your legs spin a minute) and a corresponding speed that cadence produces for a certain combination of front chainring and rear cassette teeth. You'll likely find your body likes to spin at a certain cadence. The trick is maintaining that cadence as the terrain changes. The 11-32 will give you a more extreme range of speeds. Assuming the same size chainrings at the cranks, the 11 will be faster (but harder to push) at a given cadence than the 12. Same with the 32, it will be slower and easier to turn the cranks over than the 25. But, it will be harder to maintain an ideal cadence as the terrain changes, because the jump in teeth in the rear will be wider. So you may find yourself more often in a "non-ideal" gear. That is where the 12-25 will shine. The jumps will be much smaller and you'll have an easier time maintaining cadence over moderate terrain changes.


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## Lombard (May 8, 2014)

gfz84 said:


> Talking about hilly and this is general question to the peeps here:
> Which casette type is better: a 12-25 or a 11-32? Understand the latter is good for hills but I am not sure if there is a huge relative difference between the two when say climbing a hill with less than 10% grade. I understand the 12-25 means smoother shifting but still trying to understand the trade-off here.
> Full disclosure: I have ordered two GT grade bikes: one with 11-32 and one with 12-25 cog set. I just didn't want them to be sold out so ordered them anyway to save time and return one later.


You got two of the exact same bike?? I have to say I'm a bit puzzled.

As far as which cassette is "better", I run an 11-32 on both of my road bikes and an 11-34 on my gravel bike. Yes, it makes a considerable difference climbing hills. While it's true that shifting is a tad smoother with the smaller 11-25 cassette, it's not a significant difference. Racers prefer the smaller cassette because of the closer spacing between gears, but I have never considered spacing an issue. I like to have the lower hill climbing gears available if and when I need them - especially early in the season before I get in good bike shape! Your knees will thank you for the extra gears!


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## gfz84 (Jun 9, 2020)

krisdrum said:


> 12-25 seems like an odd spec for a bike like this. Although with an 8 speed rear, I can see how it makes sense, to reduce the jump in teeth between shifts. Gear range is about cadence (how many times your legs spin a minute) and a corresponding speed that cadence produces for a certain combination of front chainring and rear cassette teeth. You'll likely find your body likes to spin at a certain cadence. The trick is maintaining that cadence as the terrain changes. The 11-32 will give you a more extreme range of speeds. Assuming the same size chainrings at the cranks, the 11 will be faster (but harder to push) at a given cadence than the 12. Same with the 32, it will be slower and easier to turn the cranks over than the 25. But, it will be harder to maintain an ideal cadence as the terrain changes, because the jump in teeth in the rear will be wider. So you may find yourself more often in a "non-ideal" gear. That is where the 12-25 will shine. The jumps will be much smaller and you'll have an easier time maintaining cadence over moderate terrain changes.


hmm..makes sense. I am leaning towards the 12-25. Would you say you will have to 'jump out of the saddle" more with the 11-32 to maintain cadence than with the 12-25?


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## gfz84 (Jun 9, 2020)

Lombard said:


> You got two of the exact same bike?? I have to say I'm a bit puzzled.
> 
> As far as which cassette is "better", I run an 11-32 on both of my road bikes and an 11-34 on my gravel bike. Yes, it makes a considerable difference climbing hills. While it's true that shifting is a tad smoother with the smaller 11-25 cassette, it's not a significant difference. Racers prefer the smaller cassette because of the closer spacing between gears, but I have never considered spacing an issue. I like to have the lower hill climbing gears available if and when I need them - especially early in the season before I get in good bike shape! Your knees will thank you for the extra gears!


Its basically the same bike (just has a different name) with 12-25 and possibly wider 35mm tires..not sure (SCHWALBE Road Cruiser K-guard instead of Kenda Happy Medium). I just didn't them to run out of the 53cm size in either before I make up my mind so ordered both. 

https://bit.ly/3fOjH9m
https://bit.ly/2YreZIM


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## krisdrum (Oct 29, 2007)

gfz84 said:


> hmm..makes sense. I am leaning towards the 12-25. Would you say you will have to 'jump out of the saddle" more with the 11-32 to maintain cadence than with the 12-25?


See, I would have gone the opposite direction. More gear range. I have found more range to be a benefit as I can typically find a comfortable cadence within reason. 

Not sure what jumping and maintaining cadence have to do with each other. Very few people (if anyone) have the same cadence in and out of the saddle, which is kind of the point. Cadence in the saddle should be higher as that is where you should be spending most of your time and a higher cadence is more efficient. Jumping out of the saddle slows your cadence, but gives you more power, but is less efficient.

Both bikes have the same chainring sizes up front. The 11-32 will be more versatile in my opinion, especially as a beginner as you may need those bigger "bail out" gears to get up some hills.


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## Lombard (May 8, 2014)

gfz84 said:


> Its basically the same bike (just has a different name) with 12-25 and possibly wider 35mm tires..not sure (SCHWALBE Road Cruiser K-guard instead of Kenda Happy Medium). I just didn't them to run out of the 53cm size in either before I make up my mind so ordered both.
> 
> https://bit.ly/3fOjH9m
> https://bit.ly/2YreZIM


So it looks like you got both a GT Grade gravel bike and a GT Vantara road bike. Still not sure why you didn't just choose one and see if you like it, but what's done is done.

As far as "jumping out of the saddle" this works for some, not for others. From my own experience, it works for short sprints, but on long climbs, if you can't spin up that hill sitting, you won't be able to pedal out of the saddle either. You get more immediate power, but you will tire out easier if that makes sense.


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## gfz84 (Jun 9, 2020)

Lombard said:


> So it looks like you got both a GT Grade gravel bike and a GT Vantara road bike. Still not sure why you didn't just choose one and see if you like it, but what's done is done.
> 
> As far as "jumping out of the saddle" this works for some, not for others. From my own experience, it works for short sprints, but on long climbs, if you can't spin up that hill sitting, you won't be able to pedal out of the saddle either. You get more immediate power, but you will tire out easier if that makes sense.


Both are essentially the GT Grade Claris bike:
https://www.gtbicycles.com/usa_en/gorogue/

For some reason they are sold under different names at Dick's..not sure why. They have the same exact specs except the couple of differences I mentioned.

Thanks for the input. What's the average speed and cadence you maintain on your gravel bike?


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## gfz84 (Jun 9, 2020)

krisdrum said:


> See, I would have gone the opposite direction. More gear range. I have found more range to be a benefit as I can typically find a comfortable cadence within reason.
> 
> Not sure what jumping and maintaining cadence have to do with each other. Very few people (if anyone) have the same cadence in and out of the saddle, which is kind of the point. Cadence in the saddle should be higher as that is where you should be spending most of your time and a higher cadence is more efficient. Jumping out of the saddle slows your cadence, but gives you more power, but is less efficient.
> 
> Both bikes have the same chainring sizes up front. The 11-32 will be more versatile in my opinion, especially as a beginner as you may need those bigger "bail out" gears to get up some hills.


Thanks. I understand the difference better now. Will probably flip a coin at this point..hahaha.


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## Lombard (May 8, 2014)

gfz84 said:


> Both are essentially the GT Grade Claris bike:
> https://www.gtbicycles.com/usa_en/gorogue/
> 
> For some reason they are sold under different names at Dick's..not sure why. They have the same exact specs except the couple of differences I mentioned.
> ...


Average cadence? I've never monitored it and don't have a cadence meter. But it differs depending on whether I'm climbing or cruising flats. I tend to be more of a spinner, not a masher.

From a monetary stand point, not sure why you didn't just buy one bike and an extra set of tires or an extra cassette if you were just looking for different gearing. Oh well.


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## gfz84 (Jun 9, 2020)

Lombard said:


> Average cadence? I've never monitored it and don't have a cadence meter. But it differs depending on whether I'm climbing or cruising flats. I tend to be more of a spinner, not a masher.
> 
> From a monetary stand point, not sure why you didn't just buy one bike and an extra set of tires or an extra cassette if you were just looking for different gearing. Oh well.


In case I didn't clarify, I will be keeping only one.


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## Lombard (May 8, 2014)

gfz84 said:


> In case I didn't clarify, I will be keeping only one.


Oh, OK. I was under the impression that sales of a special order bike were final and Dick's was shipping directly to you. Didn't know you could try both once they come in and send the other back. I guess you lose the shipping cost of the one you ship back?


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## krisdrum (Oct 29, 2007)

gfz84 said:


> Both are essentially the GT Grade Claris bike:
> https://www.gtbicycles.com/usa_en/gorogue/
> 
> For some reason they are sold under different names at Dick's..not sure why. They have the same exact specs except the couple of differences I mentioned.


Weird, so the Grade comes with Kenda Happy Mediums, which is an off-road tire. It might be file tread down the center, but it is designed for dirt. And has a wider range cassette to give you more flexibility to tackle various terrain. The Vantara looks to be the same specs as the Grade with a slick tire and tighter gearing. Basically a "fat tire" road bike. As equipped, not going to be great on anything except pavement. Once you get both bikes, I'd compare the frames and double check they both have the same tire clearance specs. 

I basically ride something very similar to the Vantara. It's a cyclocross race frame that I have multiple wheel sets for. I usually run a 28mm slick tire for road riding and throw on some knobbies if I am going to tackle some dirt. A 32mm slick is probably overkill for the road, but you'll be able to run lower pressure, which will add some additional comfort to the ride.


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## Lombard (May 8, 2014)

Are both of these bikes really the same frame? I don't even see the Vantara on GT's website, only on Dick's website.


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## krisdrum (Oct 29, 2007)

Lombard said:


> Are both of these bikes really the same frame? I don't even see the Vantara on GT's website, only on Dick's website.


Who knows. That is why I suggested comparing the tire clearance specs once the OP gets both frames. That should be a pretty telltale sign. Based on the spec chart on Dick's website, it is hard to tell if there is any real difference in the frames.


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## gfz84 (Jun 9, 2020)

Lombard said:


> Oh, OK. I was under the impression that sales of a special order bike were final and Dick's was shipping directly to you. Didn't know you could try both once they come in and send the other back. I guess you lose the shipping cost of the one you ship back?


Dick's will accept it any unassembled bikes back. I don't even have to ship it back. I can just take the box to my nearest DSG store and drop it off.


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## krisdrum (Oct 29, 2007)

gfz84 said:


> Dick's will accept it any unassembled bikes back. I don't even have to ship it back. I can just take the box to my nearest DSG store and drop it off.


Hmmm. Unassembled.... so what's the plan to pick between them? Flip a coin as you suggested?


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## gfz84 (Jun 9, 2020)

krisdrum said:


> Hmmm. Unassembled.... so what's the plan to pick between them? Flip a coin as you suggested?


I would like to compare the frames to make sure they are the same even though my research suggests 99.9% they will be. And in which case, yes it will be a coin toss.


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## rudge66 (Apr 1, 2019)

gfz84 said:


> I would like to compare the frames to make sure they are the same even though my research suggests 99.9% they will be. And in which case, yes it will be a coin toss.


Too bad you didn't compare 51/53 frames.
You seemed to have wandered into the weeds a bit nuancing the cogs. Any shift on a Claris 8 speed syphons your power and cadence, certainly more noticeable on the road.


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## rudge66 (Apr 1, 2019)

krisdrum said:


> Hmmm. Unassembled.... so what's the plan to pick between them? Flip a coin as you suggested?


Now he's got two unassembled bikes to haul up and down to his apartment to the LBS to assemble and fit. This is not looking smart at all.


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## gfz84 (Jun 9, 2020)

rudge66 said:


> Now he's got two unassembled bikes to haul up and down to his apartment to the LBS to assemble and fit. This is not looking smart at all.


Thanks but no thanks for your concern. Only one bike is going to the LBS for assembly. The other is going straight back to Dick's. Online shopping is pretty convenient in 2020.

And YOU talking about "smart" advice is a little rich honestly.


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## rudge66 (Apr 1, 2019)

After a few months of good hard rides, you'll likely be craving a new bike ... I hope.


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## rudge66 (Apr 1, 2019)

krisdrum said:


> Not sure what jumping and maintaining cadence have to do with each other. Very few people (if anyone) have the same cadence in and out of the saddle, which is kind of the point..


You're generally sound with your posts. However, seeing that nearly 2500 people have viewed this thread, and a portion who may be new rider:; the above statement is misleading and simply incorrect.

Shifting skills need to develop in tandem with knowing when to lift you ass out of the saddle and stand; often for the sake of maintaining cadence , power and speed.
Unfortunately this is not something Claris excels at.


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## probe1957 (Apr 10, 2009)

rudge66 said:


> After a few months of good hard rides, you'll likely be craving a new bike ... I hope.


You can’t be as big a doofus as you seem to be in this thread?


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## krisdrum (Oct 29, 2007)

rudge66 said:


> You're generally sound with your posts. However, seeing that nearly 2500 people have viewed this thread, and a portion who may be new rider:; the above statement is misleading and simply incorrect.
> 
> Shifting skills need to develop in tandem with knowing when to lift you ass out of the saddle and stand; often for the sake of maintaining cadence , power and speed.
> Unfortunately this is not something Claris excels at.


Maybe that's a style thing. I very seldom get out of the saddle and when I do it isn't "to maintain cadence". In my mind, out of the saddle is about power and/or speed over a short distance or to give part of the body a rest/stretch. It isn't about cadence. YMMV, but I sure can't go from 100 rpm seated to 100rpm standing. Maybe I am being too literal, but that is "maintaining cadence" in my mind.


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## rudge66 (Apr 1, 2019)

krisdrum said:


> Maybe that's a style thing. I very seldom get out of the saddle and when I do it isn't "to maintain cadence".


Try it, Takes practice. I really don't think you want to spin your 100 cadence up a hill. 
On Claris every shift drops power. Even on a flat, compared to a decent group.


_"Maybe that's a style thing..._' No, its basic riding skill. It's so much easier to simply stand and power for 6 or 10, or 40 strokes .

Not being adept at getting out of saddle is important tool not in your box.

I encourage the OP to practice this interest. Maybe you too.


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## gfz84 (Jun 9, 2020)

Update: So took this beauty out on a quick 5-miler inaugural ride after my LBS assembled it and wanted to share some thoughts:

1. Frame size: Fits me perfectly. Stand over height is perfect with about half an inch and change left between my crotch and both feet on the ground. I wish the head tube could have been a tad longer for a more upright position but honestly not a big deal and I will eventually get used to it. Maybe it's just a hangover from transitioning to a drop bars from flat bars. 

2. Gearing: Claris isn't bad at all and serves my need. Went with the 11-32 as a couple of people here recommended. It gave me enough ammo to keep me seated without compromising on cadence on some low hills. I need to refine my gear changing skills as STI shifting is a little confusing but I will figure it out with time and practice. 

3. Ride Quality: This is the lightest and fastest bike I have ever ridden...lol. I rode over light gravel and asphalt today and had no problems with either terrain. I must admit I was nervous of going too fast as I was weaving out of traffic I had my hands on the brakes lightly most of the time. My only issue is to do with cornering on tight turns as I was afraid I would fall given the compact handlebar and high saddle height compared to a regular bike so this is another skill I need to master. Not terribly worried but wondering if wider 35mm tires will help in cornering stability?

Overall, A+.

Special shout-out to Lombard and Krisdrum for being particularly helpful with their posts in this thread.


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## Lombard (May 8, 2014)

Congrats GFZ! Nice looking bike! So you kept the 35mm one with the lower gearing - good choice!



gfz84 said:


> I wish the head tube could have been a tad longer for a more upright position but honestly not a big deal and I will eventually get used to it. Maybe it's just a hangover from transitioning to a drop bars from flat bars.


Probably. However, it's an easy enough fix to flip the stem and tilt the bars up a little. Just be sure the follow a careful tightening sequence on the stem screws and torque them properly. Or have your LBS do it if you don't have the tools or the confidence. The way it's adjusted now looks like a pretty slammed down aggressive position. I have my road bikes adjusted so the bars and saddle are pretty much level with each other.



gfz84 said:


> I need to refine my gear changing skills as STI shifting is a little confusing but I will figure it out with time and practice. ​


It's new to you. You'll master it before you know it.



gfz84 said:


> My only issue is to do with cornering on tight turns as I was afraid I would fall given the compact handlebar and high saddle height compared to a regular bike so this is another skill I need to master. Not terribly worried but wondering if wider 35mm tires will help in cornering stability?


It does look like there is a lot of seat post showing. Is this the way the LBS fitted you? Wider tires are more stable overall for sure, but on paved roads won't necessarily help you corner faster. What pressures are you running?




gfz84 said:


> Special shout-out to Lombard and Krisdrum for being particularly helpful with their posts in this thread.


You're welcome!


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## rudge66 (Apr 1, 2019)

Lombard said:


> It does look like there is a lot of seat post showing. ... However, it's an easy enough fix to flip the stem and tilt the bars up a little. ... I have my road bikes adjusted so the bars and saddle are pretty much level with each other.


And...1/2 inch of standover ... Great Job Lombard! 

Oh let's look into our Chrystal Ball ... perhaps a 60mm stem is next ?


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## Lombard (May 8, 2014)

rudge66 said:


> And...1/2 inch of standover ... Great Job Lombard!
> 
> Oh let's look into our Chrystal Ball ... perhaps a 60mm stem is next ?


So tell me this Mr. Rudge "Genius", if he has this much seat post showing with a 53cm frame, how much seat post would he have showing if he had taken your poor advice to get a 51cm frame? Better to ask if that seat post would even be long enough?

If that is the correct seat post adjustment, I'm pretty sure he has more than a 1/2 inch standover unless he was wearing baggy shorts when he measured or was measuring from the high part of the top tube. 

60mm stem is silly. But a more upright stem may be a good idea if he can't get where he wants flipping his stem and turning the bars up a bit.


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## rudge66 (Apr 1, 2019)

As best I can determine the bike geometry _(Dicks Sporting Goods _"_53")_; in millimeters:
Stack 590.
Reach 394.
Stand Over 791. 

Thus confirming OP " _... with about half an inch and change left between my crotch and both feet on the ground."
_
https://www.jensonusa.com/GT-Grade-Aluminum-Elite-Bike-2020

Appears Dicks has taken the Seat Tube Length 531 mm or 53cm and used that as their own sizing. This is not uncommon among Big Box Stores.
It appears GT never made this in a size 53.

2020 and 2019 Carbon and Alum geometry sizes are identical. 

Click on GEO from the Horses Mouth...
https://www.gtbicycles.com/usa_en/grade-elite


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## Lombard (May 8, 2014)

rudge66 said:


> As best I can determine the bike geometry _(Dicks Sporting Goods _"_53")_; in millimeters:
> Stack 590.
> Reach 394.
> Stand Over 791.
> ...


Hmmm, mountain bike sizes have always been based on the seat tube length, but usually in inches. Road bike sizes are generally based on the top tube length. Gravel and hybrid bikes could be either.

I would think the "true" size would be somewhere on the frame if it is indeed different from what Dick's listed.


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## gfz84 (Jun 9, 2020)

Lombard said:


> Congrats GFZ! Nice looking bike! So you kept the 35mm one with the lower gearing - good choice!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


It has the 32mms. The LBS said they have inflated them to a 85 PSI as I will be mostly doing pavement but recommended a 50 to 60 PSI if the mix is more gravel and less pavement. The bike has clearance for 35s but I am going to see if i can get comfortable with the stock 32s or wear out the tread before i upgrade to the 35s. 
About the stem height, I am going to test out my comfort level on a longer ride to see how much adjustment i need before going to my LBS. I just want to be sure its not a transition issue from a flatbar to a road bike saddle position.


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## gfz84 (Jun 9, 2020)

Lombard said:


> Hmmm, mountain bike sizes have always been based on the seat tube length, but usually in inches. Road bike sizes are generally based on the top tube length. Gravel and hybrid bikes could be either.
> 
> I would think the "true" size would be somewhere on the frame if it is indeed different from what Dick's listed.


I did not rely on the newer model specs as this is an older GT grade model which indeed came in a 53 frame. Specs can be found here:

https://www.gtbicycles.com/usa_en/gorogue/


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## rudge66 (Apr 1, 2019)

gfz84 said:


> I did not rely on the newer model specs as this is an older GT grade model which indeed came in a 53 frame. Specs can be found here:
> 
> https://www.gtbicycles.com/usa_en/gorogue/


Yes I saw that link and frankly find it confusing. I dont know what country that chart was for.? Or what year prior to 2019. This is how it goes with Mongoose, RoadMaster, GT; Huffy, etc. Mass market production has its inconsistencies.

https://gtbicycles.zendesk.com/hc/en-us/articles/220715628-What-size-bike-should-I-buy-

Note: _*When faced with fitting in-between two sizes of bike, we recommend sizing down to the smaller size.
*
_This thread is soon to hit 3000 views. If you can't put two inches between your top tube and your crotch...welcome to the club of bike sizing mistakes.

BTW I love the Olive Fork color way.


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## gfz84 (Jun 9, 2020)

rudge66 said:


> Yes I saw that link and frankly find it confusing. I dont know what country that chart was for.?? This is how it goes with Mongoose , RoadMaster, GT; mass production has its inconsistencies.
> 
> https://gtbicycles.zendesk.com/hc/en-us/articles/220715628-What-size-bike-should-I-buy-
> 
> ...


I compared the specs to other manufacturer brands as well and found this bike's specs to be closer to other 52cm frames from other manufactuers (a general advice to all other rookies when confused about size) I think i said in my update that I did not find any problems with the standover height. I was more concerned about standover as my riding in a city involves a lot of start/stop so finding my feet quickly after dismounting was crucial and I have no problems there. Like Lombard said, I don't see why my LBS cant make small tweaks to the saddle or stem to make it more comfortable as this is something pretty common as evidenced here:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XZ983nnOV6U&t=167s

And did you just complement me on my bike? I am stunned!


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## Lombard (May 8, 2014)

gfz84 said:


> I compared the specs to other manufacturer brands as well and found this bike's specs to be closer to other 52cm frames from other manufactuers (a general advice to all other rookies when confused about size) I think i said in my update that I did not find any problems with the standover height. I was more concerned about standover as my riding in a city involves a lot of start/stop so finding my feet quickly after dismounting was crucial and I have no problems there. Like Lombard said, I don't see why my LBS cant make small tweaks to the saddle or stem to make it more comfortable as this is something pretty common as evidenced here:
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XZ983nnOV6U&t=167s
> 
> And did you just complement me on my bike? I am stunned!


Some good info on that video. 85 PSI seems high for those tires unless you are on the heavy side. The correct pressure depends on two things - tire size and total weight on them including bike, fully clothed rider and any gear you are carrying. And you generally want to keep at least 10 PSI less in the front than the rear since most of your weight is in the rear. 32mm is a good size unless your routes have a lot of off-road or most of your pavement is horribly broken up. Treaded tires are pretty much useless unless you go into mud and slop - mostly marketing. Wide smooth tires work well for dry dirt and just about all pavement situations. Wider tires are NOT significantly slower, but treads will slow you down.

Full disclosure: I run 28mm tires on my road bike and I inflate them to 75 front/90 rear, but I am lazy and only re-pump my tires about once a week. I could easily run less. I'm 175lbs in my birthday suit, but total weight when added all up is a bit over 200lbs.


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## gfz84 (Jun 9, 2020)

Lombard said:


> Some good info on that video. 85 PSI seems high for those tires unless you are on the heavy side. The correct pressure depends on two things - tire size and total weight on them including bike, fully clothed rider and any gear you are carrying. And you generally want to keep at least 10 PSI less in the front than the rear since most of your weight is in the rear. 32mm is a good size unless your routes have a lot of off-road or most of your pavement is horribly broken up. Treaded tires are pretty much useless unless you go into mud and slop - mostly marketing. Wide smooth tires work well for dry dirt and just about all pavement situations. Wider tires are NOT significantly slower, but treads will slow you down.
> 
> Full disclosure: I run 28mm tires on my road bike and I inflate them to 75 front/90 rear, but I am lazy and only re-pump my tires about once a week. I could easily run less. I'm 175lbs in my birthday suit, but total weight when added all up is a bit over 200lbs.


Hmm..I am 153 lbs so I can probably go lesser than you. Didn't know about the different pressures in the front and back so will note that. I also read these tires aren't good on wet grass and similar surfaces. Is there a psi recommendation for generally wet conditions?


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## krisdrum (Oct 29, 2007)

rudge66 said:


> Try it, Takes practice. I really don't think you want to spin your 100 cadence up a hill.
> On Claris every shift drops power. Even on a flat, compared to a decent group.
> 
> 
> ...


Wow, you really are a condescending arrogant [email protected]@rd. I didn't say I couldn't do it. I said I preferred not to. That is a style choice. You find it easier. I do not most of the time.


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## krisdrum (Oct 29, 2007)

Congrats OP. Nice looking ride. If memory serves those are 32mm Kenda Happy Mediums, right? That is an off-road tire, mostly for dry-ish conditions. For the majority of the riding it sounds like you'll be doing, they are overkill. Will it work on pavement? Sure. Is it optimal? No. 

The question is, do you really see yourself spending an hour or two on unpaved surfaces trying to go as fast as you can? A road slick is more than capable of handling the odd dirt, grass, etc. especially in the larger sizes (28mm+). I used to routinely ride dirt/gravel trails as part of a route I did on 23mm slicks. Was I super fast over that terrain? No. Did I destroy the tires, tubes, wheels? No. You mentioned you are not liking tight corners on these, you are actually getting less surface area on the pavement than you would with a slick because of the sideknobs, which could be one of the reasons they feel unstable to you. 

I also agree that you should drop your psi. I'm 175 and run usually about 75-80 psi on 28mm slicks, slightly higher pressure in the rear to factor in my weight distribution. In a 32mm slick I'd probably start out around 5 lbs lower and see how that goes. Some of this is art, as it depends on who you are as a rider. I am pretty light on my wheels, so can usually get away with lower pressures. When I was racing cross, I was routinely in the 30-35 psi range on most courses on 32-34mm clinchers (with tubes). I could run tubulars even lower if the course conditions required. Experiment a bit, lower your pressure 2-3 lbs every few weeks, ride, repeat. You'll soon be able to feel the "breaking point" for you, where the tire is too soft and squirms under you too much for your liking. Go back up a few pounds and you should be good.

In general when wet out, you want to run lower pressures, as it gives you a bigger contact patch, so you have better grip.


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## Lombard (May 8, 2014)

gfz84 said:


> Hmm..I am 153 lbs so I can probably go lesser than you. Didn't know about the different pressures in the front and back so will note that. I also read these tires aren't good on wet grass and similar surfaces. Is there a psi recommendation for generally wet conditions?


153lbs? Wow, you should probably be at around 50F/60R with those tires, more if you tend to carry more weight on your bike. But as Krisdrum implied, finding the optimal pressure can be an art rather than science. Start a bit higher, ride often and see how it feels in a week compared to right after pumping. Road tires lose about 10 PSI per week, 32mm tires will lose a bit less since volume is higher. As I said before, I'm lazy and only pump once a week. See what PSI the gauge on the pump says when you re-pump trying not to let any air out when inserting the chuck.

I also agree with Krisdrum about slicks cornering better than tires with side knobs or even light treads. You will even see some tire manufacturers who make bike tires with grooves for hydroplaning. This is 100% marketing and 0% functional. Bikes don't hydroplane - they don't have enough surface area, nor do they ever go fast enough to hydroplane!


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## Lombard (May 8, 2014)

krisdrum said:


> Wow, you really are a condescending arrogant [email protected]@rd. I didn't say I couldn't do it. I said I preferred not to. That is a style choice. You find it easier. I do not most of the time.


Everybody has their style. Rudge66's style is digging holes for himself.


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## tlg (May 11, 2011)

gfz84 said:


> [/FONT]


Nice bike. But photos are ALWAYS to be taken from the drive side. It's the rule!


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## tlg (May 11, 2011)

Lombard said:


> You will even see some tire manufacturers who make bike tires with grooves for hydroplaning. This is 100% marketing and 0% functional. Bikes don't hydroplane - they don't have enough surface area, nor do they ever go fast enough to hydroplane!


This times eleventy.


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## rudge66 (Apr 1, 2019)

krisdrum said:


> Wow, you really are a condescending arrogant [email protected]@rd. I didn't say I couldn't do it. I said I preferred not to. That is a style choice. You find it easier. I do not most of the time.


Easy Pal let's not blow a tube!
Perhaps we can all work though this together... O.K. 

So... you carry _The Tool In Your Bo_x...but you_ seldom_ use it. 
And the reason is; Because it's not _your_... _style_.
Am I in the Ball Park with you here ? 
Let's continue...
_Your Style... _is _ sitting in the saddle. _You _seldom stand_.
And you are_ 5'6" 175 lbs. _

O.K. ....The picture comes into focus. 
It's a "_Style_ " thing ... I think I get it now.


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## krisdrum (Oct 29, 2007)

rudge66 said:


> Easy Pal let's not have a blown a tube .
> Perhaps we can all work though this together...
> 
> So you carry The Tool In Your Box...but you seldom use it.
> ...


Thanks Captain Obvious. Nice research skills. Although I get the odd feeling you are insinuating something... nah, couldn't be. Surely this is a place where people celebrate their differences in all forms.


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## rudge66 (Apr 1, 2019)

krisdrum said:


> TSurely this is a place where people celebrate their differences in all forms.


Yes, this is a place for Obese to celebrate and play Their Victum Card !
Now... May I help you practice your standing skills?


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## krisdrum (Oct 29, 2007)

rudge66 said:


> Yes, this is a place for Obese to celebrate and play Their Victum Card !
> Now... May I help you practice your standing skills?


LMAO!!! Wow, true colors shining through. Do I look "obese" in my avatar pic? is this how you usually deal with minor conflicts? Tell me about your mother. Did she hug you enough? Tell me about your father. Was he too strict?


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## Lombard (May 8, 2014)

rudge66 said:


> Yes, this is a place for Obese to celebrate and play Their Victum Card !
> Now... May I help you practice your standing skills?


I can't completely speak for Krisdrum, but I have no desire to have you help me practice anything since I have absolutely nothing useful to learn from you.

And BTW, if you look at the BMI charts, 5' 6" and 175# is technically in the overweight category, but not in the obese category.


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## tlg (May 11, 2011)

rudge66 said:


> Yes, this is a place for Obese to celebrate and play Their *Victum *Card !
> Now... May I help you practice your standing skills?


Don't be a d!ck.

How about you practice your spelling skills and don't offer unsolicited advice.


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## krisdrum (Oct 29, 2007)

Lombard said:


> I can't completely speak for Krisdrum, but I have no desire to have you help me practice anything since I have absolutely nothing useful to learn from you.
> 
> And BTW, if you look at the BMI charts, 5' 6" and 175# is technically in the overweight category, but not in the obese category.


Thanks, more than capable of speaking for myself. And I'll respectfully disagree. Grudge... or rudeg66... or whatever his name is has plenty of amazing insights to share on how to be a combative troll. Dictionary definition, plenty we can learn from him on that front. Beyond that... not so sure.


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## rudge66 (Apr 1, 2019)

krisdrum said:


> Thanks Captain Obvious. Nice research skills. Although I get the odd feeling you are insinuating something... nah, couldn't be. *Surely this is a place where people celebrate their differences in all forms*.


You Played Your Card....Have Your Celebration. May I suggest moderation while doing so.


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## krisdrum (Oct 29, 2007)

rudge66 said:


> You Played Your Card....Have Your Celebration.


What card? What are you talking about? I like clarity and directness, so are you saying I "played my obesity card" because I happened to mention my height and weight in completely different contexts within the same 6 page thread? That's rich. 


Mmmm... rich, like chocolate cake and ice cream or pasta and alfredo sauce with a side of garlic bread... mmmmm.


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## gfz84 (Jun 9, 2020)

Live look-in at rudge66 riding his undersized bike.
Mind you, its a carbon frame with 105.


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## gfz84 (Jun 9, 2020)

tlg said:


> Nice bike. But photos are ALWAYS to be taken from the drive side. It's the rule!


hahaha...thanks! rookie mistake i suppose.


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## gfz84 (Jun 9, 2020)

krisdrum said:


> Congrats OP. Nice looking ride. If memory serves those are 32mm Kenda Happy Mediums, right? That is an off-road tire, mostly for dry-ish conditions. For the majority of the riding it sounds like you'll be doing, they are overkill. Will it work on pavement? Sure. Is it optimal? No.
> 
> The question is, do you really see yourself spending an hour or two on unpaved surfaces trying to go as fast as you can? A road slick is more than capable of handling the odd dirt, grass, etc. especially in the larger sizes (28mm+). I used to routinely ride dirt/gravel trails as part of a route I did on 23mm slicks. Was I super fast over that terrain? No. Did I destroy the tires, tubes, wheels? No. You mentioned you are not liking tight corners on these, you are actually getting less surface area on the pavement than you would with a slick because of the sideknobs, which could be one of the reasons they feel unstable to you.
> 
> ...


Thanks! I am going to experiment around with the psi like you and Lombard suggested and find my optimal pressure. I assumed thicker wider tires would come at a price..which is speed as wind resistance would be higher but was willing to make that trade off for more better cornering..I guess neither is necessarily true. I am going to stick with the current stock tires for now and get used to the handling a little more and maybe I can opt for 28mm slicks when these wear out.


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## krisdrum (Oct 29, 2007)

I'm so excited, I couldn't wait to post. I'm cured, I'm cured!! I just went for a quick ride and glory be... I rode the entire time standing up, stroke after stroke, it was incredible the way the nose of the saddle just ever so subtly tickling my rear as I pumped away. This is LIFE CHANGING!!!!! I'll never sit again! How could I be so wrong for so long. Thank you for opening my eyes to the errors of my ways, oh supreme savior.


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## krisdrum (Oct 29, 2007)

gfz84 said:


> Thanks! I am going to experiment around with the psi like you and Lombard suggested and find my optimal pressure. I assumed thicker wider tires would come at a price..which is speed as wind resistance would be higher but was willing to make that trade off for more better cornering..I guess neither is necessarily true. I am going to stick with the current stock tires for now and get used to the handling a little more and maybe I can opt for 28mm slicks when these wear out.


Good call. At your weight, unless you are a real thrasher, riding much more extreme terrain (full gravel, lots of dirt, mud, grass, etc.), or looking for ultimate comfort with lower pressures, a 28mm slick should be MORE than sufficient. Your current tires are basically dry condition cross tires where you are spending 75-85% of your time on a surface other than pavement.


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## rudge66 (Apr 1, 2019)

Lombard said:


> BTW, if you look at the BMI charts, 5' 6" and 175# is technically in the overweight category, but not in the obese category.


O.K. Nurse Lombard I'll except the clinical term _Overweight_. Since you have your chart handy; at what weight might someone 5'6" tip the scales into obesity? 

*To the OP:* dont' know if you have seen this upload similar to your bike
but I think it's sweet.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w7zrTdJSebE 

*OP *Are your cables routed the same way under the bar tape, or do they come directly off the Hoods as Dicks illustrates?

I think its time to solve the mystery as to the frame size.
Let's go to the tape and see the number. Please measure and post a pic.

*Center Bottom Bracket Top Of Seat Tube .*
Use* A* on this chart as reference.
https://www.jensonusa.com/GT-Grade-Aluminum-Elite-Bike-2020

Hint: Non drive side is best ... sorry TIG


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## rudge66 (Apr 1, 2019)

gfz84 said:


> Live look-in at rudge66 riding his undersized bike.
> Mind you, its a carbon frame with 105.


No thats my Campy...It fits .


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## Lombard (May 8, 2014)

gfz84 said:


> Thanks! I am going to experiment around with the psi like you and Lombard suggested and find my optimal pressure. I assumed thicker wider tires would come at a price..which is speed as wind resistance would be higher but was willing to make that trade off for more better cornering..I guess neither is necessarily true. I am going to stick with the current stock tires for now and get used to the handling a little more and maybe I can opt for 28mm slicks when these wear out.


I don't know how old you are, but as i get older, I like the comfort of wider tires. 28mm tires are the widest that fit my road bike. The bike came with 25mm tires and to be quite honest, I can't tell a difference in speed between the two. The only difference is that 28mm tires are less harsh because I can run lower pressures than with the 25's.

Yes, in theory, wind resistance will be higher with wider tires, but that is really splitting hairs unless you ride at sustained speeds of 20+ mph. Less than that you will never notice.

What WILL slow you down are the knobs. Personally, when it comes time to replace tires, if it were me, I would go with 32 or 35mm slicks, but that's just me.


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## rudge66 (Apr 1, 2019)

krisdrum said:


> I'm so excited, I couldn't wait to post. I'm cured, I'm cured!! I just went for a quick ride and glory be... I rode the entire time standing up, stroke after stroke, it was incredible the way the nose of the saddle just ever so subtly tickling my rear as I pumped away. This is LIFE CHANGING!!!!! I'll never sit again! How could I be so wrong for so long. Thank you for opening my eyes to the errors of my ways, oh supreme savior.


Strava...post your ride ?


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## Lombard (May 8, 2014)

rudge66 said:


> O.K. Nurse Lombard I'll except the clinical term _Overweight_. Since you have your chart handy; at what weight might someone 5'6" tip the scales into obesity?



https://lmgtfy.com/?q=bmi+chart+men&t=i


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## krisdrum (Oct 29, 2007)

rudge66 said:


> Strava...post your ride ?


What's Strava? I don't speak italian.


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## rudge66 (Apr 1, 2019)

Lombard said:


> I don't know how old you are, but as i get older, I like the comfort of wider tires. 28mm tires are the widest that fit my road bike. The bike came with 25mm tires and to be quite honest, I can't tell a difference in speed between the two. The only difference is that 28mm tires are less harsh because I can run lower pressures than with the 25's.
> 
> Yes, in theory, wind resistance will be higher with wider tires, but that is really splitting hairs unless you ride at sustained speeds of 20+ mph. Less than that you will never notice.
> 
> What WILL slow you down are the knobs. Personally, when it comes time to replace tires, if it were me, I would go with 32 or 35mm slicks, but that's just me.


Huh? now your talking 28 road tires? 
The OP basically lives in NYC and you sold him a size up box store $900 GT Walmart Gavel Monster . One Sized UP ! 
Can we just get back to the # numbers?


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## Lombard (May 8, 2014)

rudge66 said:


> Huh? now your talking 28 road tires?


Newsflash - many road bikes are now being sold with 28 and 30mm tires. Are you one of those Luddites still using 23mm skinnies?


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## rudge66 (Apr 1, 2019)

Lombard .. where's the chart? Are you over wait too?
LBS
OP Didn't by a ROAD BIKE.

Now You'r talking Road Bike ? 

Please exSSplain


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## Lombard (May 8, 2014)

rudge66 said:


> Lombard .. where's the chart? Are you *over wait* too?


Over wait? You mean over weight, don't you? Man, did you pay attention in grammar school where you should have learned that? If you have to know, I'm 5' 10" and 175lbs. which puts me right at the high end of the normal range. Satisfied now?

Look at my post 154. There are charts everywhere on the internet and I inserted a link there and here just in case you didn't know how to use Google:

https://lmgtfy.com/?q=bmi+chart+men&t=i


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## rudge66 (Apr 1, 2019)

krisdrum said:


> What's Strava? I don't speak italian. Mmmm... rich, like chocolate cake and ice cream or pasta and alfredo sauce with a side of garlic bread... mmmmm.



more signals?
Whats up with that ?


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## rudge66 (Apr 1, 2019)

Lombard said:


> OI'm 5' 10" and 175lbs. which puts me right at the high end of the normal range.
> https://lmgtfy.com/?q=bmi+chart+men&t=i


And you can't ride drops, and your hands get numb, and you like to recommend riders size up a frame, And you set your bar height even with your saddle . And you dont often get out of the saddle too. 
OK Lombard I get it... lets not bicker as you say.

BTW you could drop some wait two.


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## gfz84 (Jun 9, 2020)

rudge66 said:


> O.K. Nurse Lombard I'll except the clinical term _Overweight_. Since you have your chart handy; at what weight might someone 5'6" tip the scales into obesity?
> 
> *To the OP:* dont' know if you have seen this upload similar to your bike
> but I think it's sweet.
> ...


Yes, the bike in the vid looks very similar to mine and maybe it is the same model. I am not sure why are you hell bent on proving a non contentious point? I am satisfied witht the frame size AFTER riding the bike. I find it hard to believe that anyone here including YOU keeps their bike in the same stock condition it came in from the LBS or the manufacturer. Just because I asked some questions on the fit doesn't mean it's a case of bad lemons.


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## gfz84 (Jun 9, 2020)

rudge66 said:


> Huh? now your talking 28 road tires?
> The OP basically lives in NYC and you sold him a size up box store $900 GT Walmart Gavel Monster . One Sized UP !
> Can we just get back to the # numbers?


Again, nobody SOLD me anything. I got advice and made my own decision. I am a 36 year old guy who knows what he needs and is adeot at doing research. But yes, you did try to SELL me a carbon frame with 105 components which was a lame "used car salesman" effort at best.


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## rudge66 (Apr 1, 2019)

gfz84 said:


> Yes, the bike in the vid looks very similar to mine and maybe it is the same model. I am not sure why are you hell bent on proving a non contentious point? I am satisfied witht the frame size AFTER riding the bike. I find it hard to believe that anyone here including YOU keeps their bike in the same stock condition it came in from the LBS or the manufacturer. Just because I asked some questions on the fit doesn't mean it's a case of bad lemons.


I want you to be on the right size bike. And I"ll go measure it myself for you. 

You're under 5'8'. *You have 1/2 inch space standing over your top tube*. For the 3000 readers... and all future readers ... Thats the wrong size. its too big.... 
Lombard.. TIG.. and that other Jack Ass that wants to join this circle jerk

You Bought 
Stack 590.
Reach 394.
Stand Over 791.
Seat Tube 531


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## Lombard (May 8, 2014)

rudge66 said:


> BTW you could drop some *wait* two.


And you could learn to spell words most 5th graders know how to spell.


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## Lombard (May 8, 2014)

gfz84 said:


> I am not sure why are you hell bent on proving a non contentious point?


Because he is butt hurt that nobody in this thread agrees with him. Rudge needs one of these:


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## gfz84 (Jun 9, 2020)

rudge66 said:


> I want you to be on the right size bike. And I"ll go measure it myself for you.
> 
> You're under 5'8'. *You have 1/2 inch space standing over your top tube*. For the 3000 readers... and all future readers ... Thats the wrong size. its too big....
> Lombard.. TIG.. and that other Jack Ass that wants to join this circle jerk
> ...


Those stats above are just plain wrong. This is NOT a 2020 model. You can call Dorel Sports (the manufacturer of GT) at 1800-BIKE-USA and be humbled. Correct stats are:

Stack: 557
Reach: 370 
Standover: 772
Seat tube: 535
A stand over of 791 is equal to 31 inches which is more than my inseam and would not leave any gap leave alone half an inch between my crotch and the top tube. So just on that basis alone, your specs above are wrong.


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## rudge66 (Apr 1, 2019)

You said you're inseam is 32.... and you have a half inch standing over the top tube Thats too tight. For the sake of 3000 readers and some over weight old men giving advice... go ride your bike.


And just what model is it . What Year? 2019? Seat tube is 531... so lets look at the chart.


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## krisdrum (Oct 29, 2007)

Stand over is pretty far down on the list of legitimate fit criteria. There are plenty of others that should be assessed way before you use that as a sizing tool. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## rudge66 (Apr 1, 2019)

krisdrum said:


> Stand over is pretty far down on the list of legitimate fit criteria. There are plenty of others that should be assessed way before you use that as a sizing tool.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk



Agree. OP said his inseam was 32 and 1/2 inch standover. It's not even in the ballpark of acceptability...

The numbers seem to be very fluid.


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## gfz84 (Jun 9, 2020)

rudge66 said:


> You said you're inseam is 32.... and you have a half inch standing over the top tube Thats too tight. For the sake of 3000 readers and some over weight old men giving advice... go ride your bike.
> 
> 
> And just what model is it . What Year? 2019? Seat tube is 531... so lets look at the chart.


Do you have a problem with reading comprehension (in addition to writing basic english)? See post #34 in this thread. Nowhere did I mention an inseam length of 32 inches.
And for the sake of people still reading this, stop responding to this thread as you are just adding junk upon junk.


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## rudge66 (Apr 1, 2019)

So whats your inseam? I thought you said 32" not sure I pulled that out of my hat ...
but tell us your inseam again please.
You did say you have a 1/2 inch space standover correct?


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## rudge66 (Apr 1, 2019)

gfz84 said:


> So this is the geometry of the bike:
> https://www.gtbicycles.com/usa_en/gorogue/
> 
> I am planning to get the 53cms. Based on the standover height of 772mm..(~30 inches) this should be my size. *However, bike tech at DSG says this would be too big for me as he himself is 6'1 and the top bar is almost up to his crotch. Another bike tech at another DSG store and a rep from GT bikes said 53cm would be fine for me*. In the absence of proper fit services, how would you determine if the size you are ordering is right or not given the above info?


so your inseam is what now?


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## Lombard (May 8, 2014)

rudge66 said:


> So whats your inseam? I thought you said 32"* not sure I pulled that out of my hat* ...
> but tell us your inseam again please.
> You did say you have a 1/2 inch space standover correct?


I think you pulled out out of somewhere else.  The OP is 5' 6". There is no way his inseam is 32" unless he is all leg and very little torso. I am 5' 10" with a 32" inseam and I take a 56 frame. I can also assure you that there is at least 2" of clearance in my standover on my Cannondale Synapse.

So.............let do a math problem. If the OP is 5' 6" on a 53 frame and a 1/2 inch of standover clearance, what might his inseam be? :idea: Apparently you are no better at math than you are at spelling or reading comprehension. FAIL!


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## tlg (May 11, 2011)

rudge66 said:


> You said you're inseam is 32.... and you have a half inch standing over the top tube Thats too tight.





rudge66 said:


> Agree. OP said his inseam was 32 and 1/2 inch standover. It's not even in the ballpark of acceptability...





rudge66 said:


> You did say you have a 1/2 inch space standover correct?


bwahahahahaha.... you're sizing a bike based on stand over clearance. 


bwahahahahahahahahahaha

:lol::lol::lol::lol:

Credibility = 0


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## gfz84 (Jun 9, 2020)

Lombard said:


> I think you pulled out out of somewhere else.  The OP is 5' 6"...!


5'8" dude with 30" inseam with no shoes.


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## Lombard (May 8, 2014)

gfz84 said:


> 5'8" dude with 30" inseam with no shoes.


Sorry, I was confusing you with Kresdrum who said he was 5' 6".


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## pmf (Feb 23, 2004)

After reading all six pages of this thread, I feel a little embarrassed to be a member of this site. Some of you folks really need to grow up a little.


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## rudge66 (Apr 1, 2019)

Lombard said:


> Sorry, I was confusing you with Kresdrum who said he was 5' 6".


OP.. GT Grade 53 .. I'm sorry too. I apparently confused you with Lombard who has 32" inseam and rides a size 56 frame. 
Seeing that you just now disclosed your inseam at 30"... I guess we can all agree that your frame is clearly... too small... a ...er.. The Lombard School Of Frame Fit.


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## rudge66 (Apr 1, 2019)

krisdrum said:


> Taking my input out of context. There was no prescriptive advice for the OP. I was *NOT suggesting the OP buy a 51cm.* *I was suggesting I might buy one if I wanted that bike *given how it matched up against my own general frame geometry needs. Nothing more, nothing less. *Now I'm a bit shorter than the OP,...*.*Relatively short legs (about 28" inseam)* *so what I was suggesting was that he look at frames the next size up from what I might ride and evaluate them for his own needs.*



You my, krisdrum donut friend, belong *two* *sizes down*.. Your GT Grade 51, that you suggested for yourself is only in your cream puff dreams. 
Look at the GT chart link(s) https://www.gtbicycles.com/usa_en/gorogue/


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## krisdrum (Oct 29, 2007)

rudge66 said:


> You my, krisdrum donut friend, belong *two* *sizes down*.. Your GT Grade 51, that you suggested for yourself is only in your cream puff dreams.
> Look at the GT chart link(s) https://www.gtbicycles.com/usa_en/gorogue/


LOL. I’d have to run a 130-140cm stem to get the right reach to bars on the XXXS you are suggesting for me. I’ll pass thanks. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## rudge66 (Apr 1, 2019)

*krisdrum; Your PM to me...Thread: Need your help to pick! *
*krisdrum*;*bully/troll willing to weight shame a complete stranger.. thats you. 

*
Yes you are a VictUm. You finally get it it .. *I* *put the donuts in your tool box.*. 
I am guilty of weight shaming you... Its me I did it ... I force each and every bit you take into your mouth. . It* is me That is to blam*e.. *me me me... *




krisdrum said:


> I'm so excited, I couldn't wait to post. I'm cured, I'm cured!! I just went for a quick ride and glory be... I rode the entire time standing up, stroke after stroke, it was incredible the way the nose of the saddle just ever so subtly tickling my rear as I pumped away. This is LIFE CHANGING!!!!! I'll never sit again! How could I be so wrong for so long. Thank you for opening my eyes to the errors of my ways, oh supreme savior.


Thats a good start...


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## Lombard (May 8, 2014)

No more troll food for you, Rudge66!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zOpfsGrNvnk


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## rudge66 (Apr 1, 2019)

krisdrum said:


> LOL. I’d have to run a 130-140cm stem to get the right reach to bars on the XXXS you are suggesting for me. I’ll pass thanks.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


*You sent me a PM Private Message Accusing Me of Weight Shaming You.
*
*You are in a PC Paradise ... LOL ! 

*


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## rudge66 (Apr 1, 2019)

*krisdrum* Shame ? .. Shame you claim ..


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## Lombard (May 8, 2014)

Trolls are delicious on the BBQ. They taste like chicken.



rudge66 said:


> Lombard can give *yourself* your vaccine .. ............




Good grief! Where did you learn to write like this? Not only can't you spell, but you don't know basic 5th grade grammar. FAIL.


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## smokersteve (May 22, 2016)

pmf said:


> After reading all six pages of this thread, I feel a little embarrassed to be a member of this site. Some of you folks really need to grow up a little.


Exactly


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