# Boonen to ride discs for all the Classics he competes in this season



## Rashadabd (Sep 17, 2011)

It's not as big a deal as they make it sound since he's made it clear he plans to retire after Roubaix, but his comments are interesting. He's a guy I would have expected to be a holdout:

Boonen to race on disc brakes throughout 2017 | Cyclingnews.com


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## JSR (Feb 27, 2006)

I'm imagining two Specialized marketing guys in a bar last night. One says, "What do you suppose the ROI would be if we offered Boonen $50k for each Belgian win while riding discs?" The other one says, "Hey, what if we offered it to Sagan, too?"


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## Peter P. (Dec 30, 2006)

JSR said:


> I'm imagining two Specialized marketing guys in a bar last night. One says, "What do you suppose the ROI would be if we offered Boonen $50k for each Belgian win while riding discs?" The other one says, "Hey, what if we offered it to Sagan, too?"


Exactly.

The public doesn't know the existence of "performance-based pay".


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## MMsRepBike (Apr 1, 2014)

No mountains in the classics. Should be just fine.


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## Marc (Jan 23, 2005)

Peter P. said:


> Exactly.
> 
> The public doesn't know the existence of "performance-based pay".



Most consumers don't care. They want a bike that stops.

The negatives for them: bike racks that can bend a rotor, noise when wearing in.


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## MMsRepBike (Apr 1, 2014)

One of the Bora guys was riding discs during a TDU training ride:






That god awful noise.

Surely the mechanics are smart enough to figure that out before letting them race on them.


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## Migen21 (Oct 28, 2014)

I've read some rumors that BMC will be riding the new RoadMachine RM-01 in the classics this year. I'm interested to see how it plays out.


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## MoPho (Jan 17, 2011)

MMsRepBike said:


> One of the Bora guys was riding discs during a TDU training ride:
> 
> 
> That god awful noise.
> ...



Looks like the person is riding a rim brake bike, campy doesn't have road disc out yet and those are not the hydro levers they've shown. And if you are referring to the person on a disc bike next to the camera bike, the guy didn't come to a stop. 

My disc brakes make no noise except for when the rotors get wet, and that goes away pretty quick.


.


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## TmB123 (Feb 8, 2013)

Sagan had 2 x Venge Disc bikes here in Adelaide. Although he didn't race either I believed he used one in training and the one with the bling gold wheels was more for show, but I saw video of him riding it around the Tour Village doing wheelies on it.


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## Rashadabd (Sep 17, 2011)

FWIW, Boonen won on his disc equipped Venge today. He suggested it was the first pro win on them at the world tour level.


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## MMsRepBike (Apr 1, 2014)




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## Rashadabd (Sep 17, 2011)

Migen21 said:


> I've read some rumors that BMC will be riding the new RoadMachine RM-01 in the classics this year. I'm interested to see how it plays out.


BMC will definitely be racing the RM-01. It will be matte red. There are pictures out there if you look for them. My guess is that multiple teams will test disc brake road bikes in the cobbled races. Expect to see Sagan on the new Roubaix there as well.


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## TmB123 (Feb 8, 2013)

Rashadabd said:


> FWIW, Boonen won on his disc equipped Venge today. He suggested it was the first pro win on them at the world tour level.


Yep, and he pointed out on an Insta comment that he wasn't being paid to say discs were better - he meant it. I also read a comment that he was undecided between the Venge and the Roubaix for Pari - Roubaix, he needs to do more testing on the Venge, but if it goes ok, he would prefer to be on the Venge.


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## JSR (Feb 27, 2006)

Kittel gets the memo.

Kittel to use disc brakes at the Dubai Tour | Cyclingnews.com


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## Rashadabd (Sep 17, 2011)

It looks like it worked out well for him too:

Dubai Tour: Kittel savours his first win on disc brakes | Cyclingnews.com


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## BikeLayne (Apr 4, 2014)

Rashadabd said:


> It looks like it worked out well for me too:
> 
> Dubai Tour: Kittel savours his first win on disc brakes | Cyclingnews.com



Kittel did not touch his brakes and took first. I rode my usual 20 mi loop today and did not touch my caliper brakes and took first in the 10 mile time trial for the day. 1st of 3 actually. Two of my friends rode it earlier today but I beat them. Not bad since I am 40 years older then they are. I am actually getting faster which is weird. I have been hiking in the mountains a lot this year and I think that pushing hard walking up 2000 ft climbs is making a difference. I should have been doing that all along. 


Anyway I do like disc brakes and all the new stuff. I just do not want to buy stuff unless I need it. I doubt I will be in the Amjen tour so I am going to skip gearing up for it.


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## TmB123 (Feb 8, 2013)

Kittel did acknowledge that a flat sprinters stage is hardly the place for braking, but he did also say that if Pro's tried them on a long descent or in the rain that they would notice the benefits.


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## Coolhand (Jul 28, 2002)

when the aero road wheels are designed without brake tracks and with through axels then the truw advantages will be seen. Right now its mostly all converted rim brake wheels.


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## JSR (Feb 27, 2006)

That settles it. Disc brakes are faster. Of course it helps if the operator of said brakes is a huge simian monster.

Dubai Tour 2017: Stage 2 Results | Cyclingnews.com


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## dcorn (Sep 1, 2011)

BikeLayne said:


> Kittel did not touch his brakes and took first.


Exactly, which proves that disc brakes will not make your bike less aero and too heavy for racing. Kittel wins on discs 2 days in a row in a race where brakes are pointless and aero/efficiency is all important. So basically they provided no advantage, but were not a disadvantage either. Once Kittel and Boonen get into races with descents and rainy weather, those discs will start to shine.

I bet Sagan is going to be on them in races soon as well. The dude loves to attack a descent and discs will only make him faster and more aggressive going downhill.


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## TmB123 (Feb 8, 2013)

Kittel said a slightly heavier bike was a non issue for him as there were also other benefits with a stiffer frame and fork. As for aero, discs cost something like 4 seconds over 40km (presumably in a wind tunnel so in the real world is it even an issue) so in a 10 second sprint with someone pushing out ~ 1600 - 2000W any aero disadvantage would be a non issue I suspect, especially when you consider the shear physical bulk of someone built like Kittel or Greipel etc, discs are probably the least aero issue they have.


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## BikeLayne (Apr 4, 2014)

dcorn said:


> Exactly, which proves that disc brakes will not make your bike less aero and too heavy for racing.


 Well it seems like the disc thing is good to go for the Pro's. I hope it provides them with some extra safety or speed or whatever it is they want. I am going to skip it myself. My Garmin broke anyway so I would not really even know if I was going faster while not using my brakes.


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## aclinjury (Sep 12, 2011)

TmB123 said:


> Kittel said a slightly heavier bike was a non issue for him as there were also other benefits with a stiffer frame and fork. As for aero, discs cost something like 4 seconds over 40km (presumably in a wind tunnel so in the real world is it even an issue) so in a 10 second sprint with someone pushing out ~ 1600 - 2000W any aero disadvantage would be a non issue I suspect, especially when you consider the shear physical bulk of someone built like Kittel or Greipel etc, discs are probably the least aero issue they have.


you have the math to prove or disprove that a disc setup doesn't affect a sprint win that sometimes can be inches between winning and losing?


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## TmB123 (Feb 8, 2013)

aclinjury said:


> you have the math to prove or disprove that a disc setup doesn't affect a sprint win that sometimes can be inches between winning and losing?


Do you?


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## tlg (May 11, 2011)

dcorn said:


> I bet Sagan is going to be on them in races soon as well. The dude loves to attack a descent and discs will only make him faster and more aggressive going downhill.


Will be very interesting to see Sagan attack a descent with discs.


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## MMsRepBike (Apr 1, 2014)

aclinjury said:


> you have the math to prove or disprove that a disc setup doesn't affect a sprint win that sometimes can be inches between winning and losing?


The man says the difference is the stiffness of the frame and fork. Looking at the horrid abomination that is the rim brake version of the Venge they stuck him with, how can you not agree with him? The man puts out over 2000 watts of power, he can sustain 1600 watts for a long stretch. The man says the rim brake Venge is not adequate and that the disc brake Venge is stiffer, stiffness that he can translate into speed. Pretty hard not to believe him. I sure do.



tlg said:


> Will be very interesting to see Sagan attack a descent with discs.


Sagan is quite possibly the fastest descender we have. Maybe Nibali? Maybe Froome is trying to challenge now? Sagan hardly ever touches his brakes as is, have you seen the footage? The best descenders use their brakes the least, that's what makes them the best. So by nature, they'll benefit the very least from discs. Those who will benefit most are the ones that drag their brakes down the mountain, the ones that would overheat a carbon rim. Sound like Sagan to you? Do you really think he'll gain a huge advantage with discs?

And let me ask you this; when you see the pros falling on turns, like when it's wet out, are their wheels locked up when doing so? When they fall are their brakes locked out? I've looked over tons and tons of footage recently and I'm not seeing it. To me, their wheels are not locked out, almost never. That would mean that they're telling the truth about the tires being the traction limiter, not the brakes. But of course they're probably lying right and the footage is too right? The disc brakes are going to overcome that traction issue right? I'd like to hear how this is going to happen though. Nobody has made a single solid point about it. Will the tires get bigger to make this happen? Will the pros being running 28s so they don't lose traction on the turns?


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## MoPho (Jan 17, 2011)

MMsRepBike said:


> Sagan is quite possibly the fastest descender we have. Maybe Nibali? Maybe Froome is trying to challenge now? Sagan hardly ever touches his brakes as is, have you seen the footage? The best descenders use their brakes the least, that's what makes them the best. So by nature, they'll benefit the very least from discs. Those who will benefit most are the ones that drag their brakes down the mountain, the ones that would overheat a carbon rim. Sound like Sagan to you? Do you really think he'll gain a huge advantage with discs?
> 
> And let me ask you this; when you see the pros falling on turns, like when it's wet out, are their wheels locked up when doing so? When they fall are their brakes locked out? I've looked over tons and tons of footage recently and I'm not seeing it. To me, their wheels are not locked out, almost never. That would mean that they're telling the truth about the tires being the traction limiter, not the brakes. But of course they're probably lying right and the footage is too right? The disc brakes are going to overcome that traction issue right? I'd like to hear how this is going to happen though. Nobody has made a single solid point about it. Will the tires get bigger to make this happen? Will the pros being running 28s so they don't lose traction on the turns?



Traction in a corner and traction under straight line braking are two different things. I recently crashed on a wet hairpin, I got all my braking (disc) done before the corner just fine, but then went to make the turn and the bike slipped out from under me, the road was slimy. Two other people did the same thing on rim brake bikes. 
It should have been pretty clear that no one is saying disc brakes "increase" traction, the benefit is that it is easier to feed in enough brake to maximize the power without breaking traction. It still take practice and just because someone is pro doesn't mean they are going to be able to jump on and make the most of disc brakes or anything on a bike. 
It's also is good in the dry, in fact just yesterday I had noted while descending I was able to jam on the brakes hard for a hairpin and I could hear and feel the rear tire clawing at the impending point of lock up and I was able to hold it there. With rim brakes I would surely have locked it up. But again, it took some time to get the hang of it. 

And lastly, looking to pros to prove or disprove the "need" for disc brakes on descents is not necessarily relevant to consumer riding. Pros can use the whole road and don't have to worry about oncoming traffic or what's around the next corner, i.e. they can completely commit and not use the brakes as much. I got disc brakes as much for when I have to go slow as when I go fast. I live down the road from a 4k mountains with 357 turns, there are many times I get stuck behind car traffic and practically have to ride the brakes down, which is a worrisome situation with carbon wheels and rim brakes, but also it is less fatiguing with the disc brakes. 
Now what seems to be proven by the pros is that disc brakes won't keep you from winning a race



.


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## MoPho (Jan 17, 2011)

aclinjury said:


> you have the math to prove or disprove that a disc setup doesn't affect a sprint win that sometimes can be inches between winning and losing?



you have the math to prove or disprove that eating a hamburger doesn't affect a sprint win that sometimes can be inches between winning and losing?


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## TmB123 (Feb 8, 2013)

MMsRepBike said:


> Sagan is quite possibly the fastest descender we have. Maybe Nibali? Maybe Froome is trying to challenge now? Sagan hardly ever touches his brakes as is, have you seen the footage? The best descenders use their brakes the least, that's what makes them the best. So by nature, they'll benefit the very least from discs. Those who will benefit most are the ones that drag their brakes down the mountain, the ones that would overheat a carbon rim. Sound like Sagan to you? Do you really think he'll gain a huge advantage with discs?


It's not the super fast high speed corners where heavy braking is required, it's washing off mega speed into hairpins and junctions that the difference can be made. Descending is all about carrying as much speed as you can through and between corners, but at some point you come across corners where you do actually need to stop, hard, and that's where the difference can be.

Think of it like a race car or performance car, those things are built for going fast, have aero packages that stick them to the road that allow them to go around bends flat out, but, at some point they also need to negotiate slow corners and hairpins and need to wash of heaps of speed at the end of a straight or whatever. This is why they have massive brakes. The more speed you can wash off quickly, over and over again, means you can be going faster for longer.


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## dcorn (Sep 1, 2011)

MMsRepBike said:


> Sagan is quite possibly the fastest descender we have. Maybe Nibali? Maybe Froome is trying to challenge now? Sagan hardly ever touches his brakes as is, have you seen the footage? The best descenders use their brakes the least, that's what makes them the best. So by nature, they'll benefit the very least from discs. Those who will benefit most are the ones that drag their brakes down the mountain, the ones that would overheat a carbon rim. Sound like Sagan to you? Do you really think he'll gain a huge advantage with discs?
> 
> And let me ask you this; when you see the pros falling on turns, like when it's wet out, are their wheels locked up when doing so? When they fall are their brakes locked out? I've looked over tons and tons of footage recently and I'm not seeing it. To me, their wheels are not locked out, almost never. That would mean that they're telling the truth about the tires being the traction limiter, not the brakes. But of course they're probably lying right and the footage is too right? The disc brakes are going to overcome that traction issue right? I'd like to hear how this is going to happen though. Nobody has made a single solid point about it. Will the tires get bigger to make this happen? Will the pros being running 28s so they don't lose traction on the turns?


Christ man, let it go. 

Yes, better braking power and modulation will 100% help Sagan on the descents, wet or dry. 

Sorry we don't spend all day on here trying to prove you wrong when clearly your opinion isn't going to change.


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## Rashadabd (Sep 17, 2011)

What the pros are saying now (they seem more open than before, but some still have concerns):

Kittel disc brake success sparks debate in the Dubai Tour peloton | Cyclingnews.com

Again, with regard to traction issues: one benefit of disc brakes is that they often provide room for wider wheels and tires, which can drastically improve traction due to providing a larger contact patch.


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## aclinjury (Sep 12, 2011)

MoPho said:


> Traction in a corner and traction under straight line braking are two different things. I recently crashed on a wet hairpin, I got all my braking (disc) done before the corner just fine, but then went to make the turn and the bike slipped out from under me, the road was slimy. Two other people did the same thing on rim brake bikes.
> It should have been pretty clear that no one is saying disc brakes "increase" traction, the benefit is that it is easier to feed in enough brake to maximize the power without breaking traction. It still take practice and just because someone is pro doesn't mean they are going to be able to jump on and make the most of disc brakes or anything on a bike.
> It's also is good in the dry, in fact just yesterday I had noted *while descending I was able to jam on the brakes hard for a hairpin and I could hear and feel the rear tire clawing at the impending point of lock up* and I was able to hold it there. With rim brakes I would surely have locked it up. But again, it took some time to get the hang of it.
> 
> ...


Jam on the rear brake to the point of hearing impending lockup huh?
Pro tips: max braking in the dry is all done at the FRONT.

MotoGP Braking Techniques with Kevin Schwantz


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## MoPho (Jan 17, 2011)

aclinjury said:


> Jam on the rear brake to the point of hearing impending lockup huh?
> Pro tips: max braking in the dry is all done at the FRONT.
> 
> MotoGP Braking Techniques with Kevin Schwantz



Ya, think?! 



I can get the front to claw at traction too, but it should have been obvious to you that the rear brake is the one that tends to lock up. Nice try though :thumbsup:

.


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## aclinjury (Sep 12, 2011)

MMsRepBike said:


> The man says the difference is the stiffness of the frame and fork. Looking at the horrid abomination that is the rim brake version of the Venge they stuck him with, how can you not agree with him? The man puts out over 2000 watts of power, he can sustain 1600 watts for a long stretch. The man says the rim brake Venge is not adequate and that the disc brake Venge is stiffer, stiffness that he can translate into speed. Pretty hard not to believe him. I sure do.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I thought it's well established on RBR that pro roadie will say about anything even selling their soul, to get a chance to say anything the sponsors tell them to. So no, I will not trust pros, especially pros! And my question was specifically about a disc setup versus a rim setup, i.e., how much did the disc setup cost in terms of differential distance to the finishline, considering that a some of these close call wins/loses are separted by inches. It's a question relating to aerodynamics. And saying that a rider can generate 2000w or that this frame is stiffer than that frame, doesn't answer the aero question. But I understand science doesn't mean jack here, it's all about what is being marketed. Tell enough about something, buyers will eventually buy into it, even sides skirting the main issue in order to buy into something. All cool with me if you just say so!


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## aclinjury (Sep 12, 2011)

MoPho said:


> Ya, think?!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


ah but if you get both the front and the rear to the limits of traction, then two things will happen. One, both ends may drift, and you'll go into a sideway drift (which is more desirable than just the front or rear end drift). And two, you will not have maximized braking distance. Rookie. Yeah, that's right, drag that rear brake around the corner thinking it's all skill. pffff


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## MoPho (Jan 17, 2011)

aclinjury said:


> ah but if you get both the front and the rear to the limits of traction, then two things will happen. One, both ends may drift, and you'll go into a sideway drift (which is more desirable than just the front or rear end drift). And two, you will not have maximized braking distance. Rookie. Yeah, that's right, drag that rear brake around the corner thinking it's skills. pffff



Who said anything about braking in corners? and near the limit is not the limit. Again, nice try. Now how about that Hamburger math? 


.


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## aclinjury (Sep 12, 2011)

MoPho said:


> Who said anything about braking in corners? and near the limit is not the limit. Again, nice try. Now how about that Hamburger math?
> 
> 
> .


hamburger math?? gotta ask Kittel, he's a pro.


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## TricrossRich (Mar 26, 2014)

MMsRepBike said:


> Sagan is quite possibly the fastest descender we have. Maybe Nibali?


I think both of these guys are good... certainly two of the best in terms of the big name guys. After watching the 2016 TDF, though, I'd say that Julian Alaphillipe and Jarlinson Pantano have got to be pretty high up that list as well. There were at least 2 points in the 2016 TDF were they both seemed to be riding the wheels off of everyone else around them. There's a guy in the pro-continental ranks here in the US that has a huge reputation for descending like a brick out of a window, but his name escapes me at the moment. I'd also put a 2013/2014 vintage Taylor Phinney on that list, but I'm not sure he's quite got the stuff he once had.


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## Rashadabd (Sep 17, 2011)

TricrossRich said:


> I think both of these guys are good... certainly two of the best in terms of the big name guys. After watching the 2016 TDF, though, I'd say that Julian Alaphillipe and Jarlinson Pantano have got to be pretty high up that list as well. There were at least 2 points in the 2016 TDF were they both seemed to be riding the wheels off of everyone else around them. There's a guy in the pro-continental ranks here in the US that has a huge reputation for descending like a brick out of a window, but his name escapes me at the moment. I'd also put a 2013/2014 vintage Taylor Phinney on that list, but I'm not sure he's quite got the stuff he once had.


I agree with those names, just don't forget Bardet. He has mad skills as well. 

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=O27uvaRgeiQ

https://www.sram.com/stories/descent-glory


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## TmB123 (Feb 8, 2013)

As much as that was a pretty incredible descent, from all the commentary at the time it was "his" descent, as in his local training climb, so did know it better than most and he took advantage of it. Don't think he has done much since in the way of incredible descents?
it's always hard to compare generations, but Paolo Savoldelli would have to be close to, if not actually the best ever. Unfortunately there doesn't seem to be much video footage of him though.


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## JSR (Feb 27, 2006)

I'm pretty sure Savoldeli would have excelled using a Barney Rubble foot brake. The footage in my minds eye has,him sitting bolt upright, rooted in the saddle. He makes one twitch of the bars, nails the apex, and disappears from view.


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## TmB123 (Feb 8, 2013)

JSR said:


> The footage in my minds eye has,him sitting bolt upright, rooted in the saddle.


Which is a horrible technique for descending, but clearly worked exceedingly well for him.


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## MMsRepBike (Apr 1, 2014)

I don't think they're buying what you're selling Tom.


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## dcorn (Sep 1, 2011)

That's Tom explaining how he was involved in a huge crash while riding a disc brake bike and nobody was injured by the discs. Nor was the accident caused by his superior braking ability due to the disc brakes. 

But yep, people like MMsRepBike won't listen to reason and believe what they want regardless of facts. 

I'm sure Tom just wants to race on discs and all these other guys are potentially preventing him from doing so. He wants to use new tech and they are all stuck in the past and holding him back.


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## KoroninK (Aug 9, 2010)

Don't forget Valverde is also one of the top descenders in the peloton. His entire comment about disk brakes is he would need to do a lot of training on a bike with disk breaks before he would be comfortable riding one in the peloton.


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## MMsRepBike (Apr 1, 2014)

KoroninK said:


> Don't forget Valverde is also one of the top descenders in the peloton. His entire comment about disk brakes is he would need to do a lot of training on a bike with disk breaks before he would be comfortable riding one in the peloton.


His team and Katusha both have had at least 10 disc training bikes for over a year now to use and train on. Canyon said some of the riders like them and some don't. They're not forcing anyone to ride them, they can all choose they said. But rest assured he's had a disc bike available to him for a very long time now.


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## KoroninK (Aug 9, 2010)

That has been his only comment on the whole thing. I think this is more of his giving an answer and trying to stay out of the controversy, which he prefers. I do know any pictures I've seen of him training he is on his regular rim break bike. Granted those pictures are typically when he's taking his amateur Jr team out for training riders and he's both testing them as well as teaching them.


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## MMsRepBike (Apr 1, 2014)

dcorn said:


> I'm sure Tom just wants to race on discs and all these other guys are potentially preventing him from doing so. He wants to use new tech and they are all stuck in the past and holding him back.


So Boonen hasn't been riding disc brakes for at least two races now.

Tom Boonen gets custom Specialized Tarmac for the classics | Cyclingnews.com


Ditched both disc brakes and the Venge.

Specialized DO make a disc brake Tarmac, they've had one out for a long time. 

Specialized DO make a disc brake Roubaix, it's all the rage and they used Tom to market it.

But alas, he's on a rim brake Tarmac and plans to stay on it for the rest of the season.

Funny how that works.










Go ahead disc worshipers, tell me why he's racing rim brakes now of all people.


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## KoroninK (Aug 9, 2010)

Go figure.


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## TmB123 (Feb 8, 2013)

Since you posted in both threads...

I don't know why he's switched back to a Tarmac as he seemed intent on riding the Venge all the way through, but, did he _ASK _for rim brakes, or is it more to the point that the Tarmac only has post mounts and won't accommodate DA 9150 direct mount calipers and only has QR wheels instead of TA's?


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## MMsRepBike (Apr 1, 2014)

You would think, with all of the journalism push behind him being on discs, that at least one reporter would ask someone about why exactly. It's been weeks now.

But crickets.


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## Migen21 (Oct 28, 2014)

I suspect the answer is that either the union, or his peers (via the union) pressured him into changing - Of course we'll likely never know.


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## TmB123 (Feb 8, 2013)

MMsRepBike said:


> You would think, with all of the journalism push behind him being on discs, that at least one reporter would ask someone about why exactly. It's been weeks now.
> 
> But crickets.


You would think that someone, somewhere would have asked the question



Migen21 said:


> I suspect the answer is that either the union, or his peers (via the union) pressured him into changing - Of course we'll likely never know.


Possibly, but he could still have used the standard Venge.


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## aclinjury (Sep 12, 2011)

MMsRepBike said:


> You would think, with all of the journalism push behind him being on discs, that at least one reporter would ask someone about why exactly. It's been weeks now.
> 
> But crickets.


I also noticed, and I was waiting for someone to bring the "Bonen on disc" thread back up (but I was too lazy). But yea man, crickets chirpping all the way.

Swiftsolo has assured us that Bonen and Sagan will prove to the peloton the supreme advantage of disc during the wet classics.


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## TricrossRich (Mar 26, 2014)

Here's one thing I noticed... there's lots of bashing about Boonen and the big "S" pushing dice and using them, etc, but I've seen both Cannondale and Katusha using pics as well. There doesn't seem to be same ire from people about those brands pushing the conspiracy.


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## aclinjury (Sep 12, 2011)

TricrossRich said:


> Here's one thing I noticed... there's lots of bashing about Boonen and the big "S" pushing dice and using them, etc, but I've seen both Cannondale and Katusha using pics as well. There doesn't seem to be same ire from people about those brands pushing the conspiracy.


Merida also has at least a rider using disc as well. The difference between Merida, Katusha, Cdale vs. Boonen & Specialized is....

- the other 3 don't go around touting and tooting their horns, using a high profile rider in the act

- as the result, the pro-disc jockers in RBR didn't use the other 3 as a prime example but instead uses the Boonen & Specialized

Yeah, high profile works both ways. When it works, you're a glowing example and of course the pro-disc guys would be ALL OVER this thread with their myraids of opinions of "see I told you so", ain't it? Instead, we get crickets. It's not hard.

pretty damn sure guys like Swifsolo and Mopho are jusst waiting for a disc win to pounce all over a thread such as this one, eh. When you make bold prediction of how disc will present a superior advantage, so much so that it will alter race results, and then such results don't material, well then it's only fair that that you get a beating eh

i don't know, don't care for disc, i guess i'm a "luddite", blah blah. But how about how me the money? Having said that, I think disc will eventually take over simply because the force from the manufacturers are strong and persistent, it'll only grow stronger. In due time, the current riding population who are familiar with rim brakes will "turn over" and the newer riders will grow up with disc from the get-go. There is no turning back the clock on disc as far as the manufacturers are thinking, they're just buying their time. No going back for them. Only a matter of time before disc will be on all high end bikes. I only hope that they will still be making rim brakes by then, because I want my bikes on rim brakes. That's that.


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## MMsRepBike (Apr 1, 2014)

TricrossRich said:


> Here's one thing I noticed... there's lots of bashing about Boonen and the big "S" pushing dice and using them, etc, but I've seen both Cannondale and Katusha using pics as well. There doesn't seem to be same ire from people about those brands pushing the conspiracy.


There's been plenty mention of Cannondale and how dumb they are.


160mm front and 140mm rear rotors. QR rear and TA front. They don't conform to any standards or to any neutral service. They're a shining example of how not to do this, but there they are doing it.


Some director of marketing wank from Specialized went public admitting that yes, they're pushing disc brakes and paying Boonen and such special to do so. As he said, "that's literally how this works." They've been making this a spectacle, there's zero conspiracy about it. 

This thread is specifically about Boonen. This thread is specifically about he will be riding disc brakes for every classics race this season. Boonen has been on rim brakes for a couple classics now, this very much deserves to be here. They f'ed up pretty bad on this one.

I got a $20 saying he's forced back on disc brakes by PR by Specialized, no matter what he says or how much he wants to win or ride rim brakes or whatever. Him not on discs at PR is a failure I don't think they're willing to afford.


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## MoPho (Jan 17, 2011)

aclinjury said:


> pretty damn sure guys like Swifsolo and Mopho are jusst waiting for a disc win to pounce all over a thread such as this one, eh. When you make bold prediction of how disc will present a superior advantage, so much so that it will alter race results, and then such results don't material, well then it's only fair that that you get a beating eh



Yes, it works both ways and anti-disc "jockers" like you and MMsRepBike were mighty quick to pounce on this thread just the same as you accuse, in fact MMsRepBike was so delighted he had to post it in two threads 
And the crickets were because unless we know why Boonen stopped using discs or he comes out and says, "discs really suck and I was just kidding", there is really nothing to discuss 

And I never made any "bold predictions" about discs in racing, in fact I said on multiple occasions that it probably wouldn't make much of a difference because they can use the whole road and don't need to brake as much. Additionally, I don't pay much attention to racing and don't care what the pros use, it's just fun picking apart your ignorant statements 😘




.


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## aclinjury (Sep 12, 2011)

MoPho said:


> Yes, it works both ways and anti-disc "jockers" like you and MMsRepBike were mighty quick to pounce on this thread just the same as you accuse, in fact MMsRepBike was so delighted he had to post it in two threads
> And the crickets were because unless we know why Boonen stopped using discs or he comes out and says, "discs really suck and I was just kidding", there is really nothing to discuss
> 
> And I never made any "bold predictions" about discs in racing, in fact I said on multiple occasions that it probably wouldn't make much of a difference because they can use the whole road and don't need to brake as much. Additionally, I don't pay much attention to racing and don't care what the pros use, it's just fun picking apart your ignorant statements 😘
> ...


oh man you didn't make any bold predictions? Oops mah bad. Sometimes it's easy to confuse between you and Swiftsolo because where ever I see him, I see you. hehe


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## MoPho (Jan 17, 2011)

aclinjury said:


> oh man you didn't make any bold predictions? Oops mah bad. Sometimes it's easy to confuse between you and Swiftsolo because where ever I see him, I see you. hehe


Awe... poor troll, easily confused, sad.



.


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## aclinjury (Sep 12, 2011)

MoPho said:


> Awe... poor troll, easily confused, sad.
> 
> 
> 
> .


internet, stay relaxed brah


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## TricrossRich (Mar 26, 2014)

rim brake Roubaix spotted with Quick-Step team members.


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## TmB123 (Feb 8, 2013)

I'm a little fuzzy on the rules, but as far as I'm aware a rim brake Roubaix is not currently available for purchase - would this preclude them from using it in a race?


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## TricrossRich (Mar 26, 2014)

TmB123 said:


> I'm a little fuzzy on the rules, but as far as I'm aware a rim brake Roubaix is not currently available for purchase - would this preclude them from using it in a race?


Not necessarily.... There is a rule that riders must use bikes that are available to the public, but I think there's a stipulation that if not currently available for sale, they must be offered for sale within some specified time frame... i.e. 120 days or something. This happens quite regularly actually... the Dimension Data guys were testing/riding a new R5 that isn't for sale yet and 2 years ago when the ViAS came out several of the riders were using it before it was announced or for sale. If they race it this weekend or in Roubaix, we can probably expect it to be announced later this year, for sale... perhaps in limited quantities.


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## TmB123 (Feb 8, 2013)

TricrossRich said:


> Not necessarily.... There is a rule that riders must use bikes that are available to the public, but I think there's a stipulation that if not currently available for sale, they must be offered for sale within some specified time frame... i.e. 120 days or something.


That all makes sense, and I thought there was some loophole like that, but a rim brake Roubaix seems to be step backwards in what they are offering to the general public. I have an S-Works SL4 Roubaix with mechanical DA9000 and rim brakes so I think it's not a bad idea if they have one on offer for those that still want that, just seems to go against the direction they are headed in the market.


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## taodemon (Mar 17, 2014)

There is now video and pictures of Boonen on his custom paint roubaix with rim brakes as well. Now they just need to make a rim brake venge that uses normal shimano/sram/campy brakes instead of their poorly implemented homegrown design and all will be right with the world.


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## TmB123 (Feb 8, 2013)

taodemon said:


> There is now video and pictures of Boonen on his custom paint roubaix with rim brakes as well. Now they just need to make a rim brake venge that uses normal shimano/sram/campy brakes instead of their poorly implemented homegrown design and all will be right with the world.


I thought he was on a custom Tarmac? (See previous page of this thread)


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## MMsRepBike (Apr 1, 2014)

TmB123 said:


> I thought he was on a custom Tarmac? (See previous page of this thread)












Notice the seatpost binder.










Looks like a Roubaix to me. Oh my.


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## atpjunkie (Mar 23, 2002)

MMsRepBike said:


> Notice the seatpost binder.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


but still no discs
I am sure he is trying multiple bikes. He rides narrow bars for a big dude


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## SwiftSolo (Jun 7, 2008)

It may be a good idea to actually ride a hydraulic disc brake bike on some twisting descents to learn what precision braking allows you to do that you cannot do with the erratic friction created by rim brakes.

Currently, your lack of understanding of the principle of maximizing the braking force provided by the sensitive/limited contact patch of bike tires becomes apparent with your every post on the subject.

In the unlikely event that the UCI fails to invent another lame excuse to disallow discs (to protect Campy) in the Giro, you will see a lot of passing in the hairpins. The experienced disc riders will come into the turns hotter and lower and hit their apex earlier in the turn. For reasons too lengthy to explain now, they will use a more elliptical/ diminishing radius approach that will allow them to tweak their speed on the shallow entry. 

Yes, they will still be decelerating in the earliest, shallow part of the turn.

To be clear, there is no point in debating this subject until after the Giro when the debate will center on *why* they are doing it instead of *if they will.

*


aclinjury said:


> ah but if you get both the front and the rear to the limits of traction, then two things will happen. One, both ends may drift, and you'll go into a sideway drift (which is more desirable than just the front or rear end drift). And two, you will not have maximized braking distance. Rookie. Yeah, that's right, drag that rear brake around the corner thinking it's all skill. pffff


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## SwiftSolo (Jun 7, 2008)

Once again, your reading comprehension has failed you. 

It may be difficult to understand the concept, but I'll repeat it for the fourth time. _Disc brakes do not provide an advantage in races where brakes are not used except to stop after crossing the finish line._ 

A wise use of your time would be to spend a couple of days contemplating this obviously complex rationale before responding.


aclinjury said:


> Swiftsolo has assured us that Bonen and Sagan will prove to the peloton the supreme advantage of disc during the wet classics.


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## TmB123 (Feb 8, 2013)

MMsRepBike said:


> Notice the seatpost binder.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Strange, that previous story only mentioned a custom Tarmac, now it seems he has a custom Roubaix as well. These two photo's you posted appear to be different bikes (I imagine he would test numerous bikes over different surfaces), one has the black band around the seat cluster, the other doesn't. Not sure if it's just the camera angle, but the top tube on Boonen's bike looks a lot more horizontal than the black ones behind him which appear to be more sloping.

Edit: It may just be the camera angle and the black ring doesnt actually go all the way round the seat tube. The others look to be on Tarmacs, except for the one that had a GoPro which I think was a Roubaix. I think Tom's Tarmac is also quite a large frame which makes the dimensions look a little different around the seat cluster with the top tube a lot less sloping, maybe he has a really short head tube as well.


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## taodemon (Mar 17, 2014)

It is definitely a roubaix in those pictures. The black band is only on the front part of where the seat stays meet the seat tube. The roubaix also has a relatively flat top tube similar to the new venge and different from the tarmac which has the sloping top tube and seat stays that meat up with the top tube and not lower on the seat tube.

And as pointed out already, no discs on his roubaix.

video:
https://instagram.com/p/BSOYe-mjrwm/

Clearly a roubaix with rim brakes.


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## aclinjury (Sep 12, 2011)

SwiftSolo said:


> It may be a good idea to actually ride a hydraulic disc brake bike on some twisting descents to learn what precision braking allows you to do that you cannot do with the erratic friction created by rim brakes.
> 
> Currently, your lack of understanding of the principle of maximizing the braking force provided by the sensitive/limited contact patch of bike tires becomes apparent with your every post on the subject.
> 
> ...


yeah amigo, let's wait until the Giro to see all the guys on disc coming in hot and overtaking. Pfff what wishful nonsense, but I'll wait for you to eat crows then.


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## TmB123 (Feb 8, 2013)

I know this is the Boonen thread, but Kittel had some interesting things to say in this interview with Cycling Tips. 
I guess no matter which side of the disc fence you are on, one thing we can all agree on is how shockingly badly the UCI has handled the entire trial and implementation of them. A perfect example of how "not" to do it.

https://cyclingtips.com/2017/03/kit...bt-disc-brakes-will-play-role-future-cycling/


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## Jay Strongbow (May 8, 2010)

TmB123 said:


> I know this is the Boonen thread, but Kittel had some interesting things to say in this interview with Cycling Tips.
> I guess no matter which side of the disc fence you are on, one thing we can all agree on is how shockingly badly the UCI has handled the entire trial and implementation of them. A perfect example of how "not" to do it.
> 
> https://cyclingtips.com/2017/03/kit...bt-disc-brakes-will-play-role-future-cycling/


I'm not sure being able to take corners fast and safety are synonymous the way he implies. only time will tell but that could pan out to mean less crashes but worse crashes.

Not a perfect analogy but it's kind of like how there are more concussions in football than in rugby despite NFL players having the 'safety' of helmets.. Players just push the limits that much further so when something does happen it's worse.


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## SwiftSolo (Jun 7, 2008)

Jay Strongbow said:


> Not a perfect analogy but it's kind of like how there are more concussions in football than in rugby despite NFL players having the 'safety' of helmets.. Players just push the limits that much further so when something does happen it's worse.


I think you are right, but only in the margin. That same argument was made regarding use of helmets in cycling and indeed it's likely that cyclists do push the limits more as a result.

My observation is that hydraulic discs create nearly absolute predictability of brake behavior. The margin that riders traditionally had to leave for the worst likely brake performance is no longer necessary (not talking about surface adhesion variability). Cyclists on hydraulic discs will safely push faster and further into hairpins as a result of that predictability. It is my guess that the net result is unlikely to have a big impact on safety in pro racing but we will see more passing on downhills.


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