# Tommaso Bikes



## gskalt (Aug 13, 2012)

Hi all,
As I'm considering my purchase of a new bike, I came across Tommaso. Looks impressive but they only sell through www.giantnerd.com and they compare competition pricing... i have no idea what they are comparing to.

has anyone looked into them at all or have any experience with these bikes? 

Greg


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## PJ352 (Dec 5, 2007)

gskalt said:


> Hi all,
> As I'm considering my purchase of a new bike, I came across Tommaso. Looks impressive but they only sell through Giantnerd Social Shopping - Powered by Love | Road Bikes, Mountain Bikes, Camping Hiking and Backpacking, Track Bikes, The North Face, Patagonia, Marmot, Fox, Shimano Shoes - Giantnerd® and they compare competition pricing... i have no idea what they are comparing to.
> 
> has anyone looked into them at all or have any experience with these bikes?
> ...


I have no experience with the bikes nor that store, but if this is your first bike, unless you know your sizing requirements (and I mean, _really know them_) I advise against buying online. 

If you tell us a little about your general fitness, cycling experiences, intended uses and price range, maybe we can give you some alternatives to buying online - preferably those that provide sizing/ fit assistance.


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## gskalt (Aug 13, 2012)

PJ352 said:


> I have no experience with the bikes nor that store, but if this is your first bike, unless you know your sizing requirements (and I mean, _really know them_) I advise against buying online.
> 
> If you tell us a little about your general fitness, cycling experiences, intended uses and price range, maybe we can give you some alternatives to buying online - preferably those that provide sizing/ fit assistance.


Sure - I'd love to get more assistance. How should I get you this information?

Greg


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## PJ352 (Dec 5, 2007)

gskalt said:


> Sure - I'd love to get more assistance. How should I get you this information?
> 
> Greg


Just post here, detailing your general fitness, cycling experiences, intended uses and price range.

Providing more info will help us help you. :wink5:


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## gskalt (Aug 13, 2012)

To answer those questions; fitness- I'm in pretty good shape, I'm training for my first triathlon and also play ice hockey once a week. When I started training for the tri, I was able to ride my mtn bike 10 miles in hilly terrain without a ton of struggle. I know I need to learn a lot regarding techniques for shifting, etc. I intend to use the bike as a way to stay fit, continue tri training, etc. probably look to ride for 1-2 hours 1-2 times a week. My price range is under $1,000 all in. Meaning if I new to get a fit, buy pedals, anything for the bike. 

Probably need something on the smaller side. I'm 5'7" with a 29" inseam (pant size). I'm 42 yrs old.

Need anything else?


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## PJ352 (Dec 5, 2007)

gskalt said:


> To answer those questions; fitness- I'm in pretty good shape, I'm training for my first triathlon and also play ice hockey once a week. When I started training for the tri, I was able to ride my mtn bike 10 miles in hilly terrain without a ton of struggle. I know I need to learn a lot regarding techniques for shifting, etc. I intend to use the bike as a way to stay fit, continue tri training, etc. probably look to ride for 1-2 hours 1-2 times a week. My price range is under $1,000 all in. Meaning if I new to get a fit, buy pedals, anything for the bike.
> 
> Probably need something on the smaller side. I'm 5'7" with a 29" inseam (pant size). I'm 42 yrs old.
> 
> Need anything else?


Going on the assumption that you used your Mtn bike for tri's and this is going to be your first drop bar road bike, given that your budget is under $1k I suggest either 1) searching out closeouts and buying from a reputable LBS or 2) opting for a standard fitting and using the geo numbers from the test bike, shopping used locally from (preferably) a LBS selling used or alternately, CL (or similar) private sale.

The reason I suggest these options is because you'll get a level of sizing/ fit assistance (very important to get right) and the ability to test ride the bikes before deciding. You may do your own wrenching, but if not, going with an LBS purchase gets you both pre and post purchase support for assembly, tuning and warranty assistance, if needed.

Given your mtn biking background, for the time being, you may be able to carry over your pedal system and some other accessories to road riding, leaving the bulk of your budget for the bike - and fittings are included when buying new, and sometimes used. 

I made a couple of assumptions here, so if I'm off base feel free to fill in any gaps and I (along with others) will offer additional options/ opinions.


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## gskalt (Aug 13, 2012)

thanks for the response. that's kind of what i'm thinking.. with the end of year coming up i might be able to get a closeout deal. even little things like taking my water bottle cage from my mtn bike will save a few $. I guess the people who are buying from BD and the likes should really know what they're looking for, have biking experience. also seems that people buying at BD end up swapping out wheels/tires/seats for preference. maybe i can get some of that at the LBS.

if i go for a low end bike set up, how much would it cost to upgrade the compenents?

i've been looking over Craigslist, but also may have an option as I might be able to borrow a friends bike for this. its an extra bike for him so if i like it, i might find out the availability fo buyting it. if so, to the LBS to fit it to me.


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## PJ352 (Dec 5, 2007)

gskalt said:


> thanks for the response. that's kind of what i'm thinking.. with the end of year coming up i might be able to get a closeout deal. even little things like taking my water bottle cage from my mtn bike will save a few $. I guess the people who are buying from BD and the likes should really know what they're looking for, have biking experience. also seems that people buying at BD end up swapping out wheels/tires/seats for preference. maybe i can get some of that at the LBS.


I agree on your BD (or buying online, in general) comments. If someone knows their sizing requirements (based on key geo numbers, not frame size) and has a good understanding of what the geo numbers mean and how they affect fit/ ride/ handling, then the odds of success buying online improve markedly. However, IME that seldom applies to noobs and even some more experienced cyclists.

As far as parts swaps, I agree that LBS's will work with a buyer, but (generally speaking) upgrades won't be free. Where I think the benefits of dealing with a LBS really come into play are sizing/ fitting assistance (during which, stems are often swapped out, n/c), subsequent tweaks to fit, post purchase tuning, discounts on accessories and warranty assistance, if needed. 



gskalt said:


> if i go for a low end bike set up, how much would it cost to upgrade the compenents?


Depends on the components and level of upgrade, but it's generally more cost effective to buy a bike that suites your intended purposes and meets you needs right from the start. As an example, you can pick up quality 10-speed Shimano STI's for ~$150, but if the bike is 9 speed, there's a need to upgrade other parts of the drivetrain (in sum) taking a large percentage of your original cost, making it less than cost effective. One exception would be a wheelset, because that can be moved to a new bike.



gskalt said:


> i've been looking over Craigslist, but also may have an option as I might be able to borrow a friends bike for this. its an extra bike for him so if i like it, i might find out the availability fo buyting it. if so, to the LBS to fit it to me.


If the bike is sized correctly for you, that might be a good option. Just keep in mind that sizing has to be right for a fitting to go well, otherwise the fitter is forced to make what I call unnecessary compromises to 'make the bike work' for you. Something to avoid, because fit may never be quite right.


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## gskalt (Aug 13, 2012)

in working with the LBS i would expect that if in order to fit me right that if i needed for example a different set of handlebars, they could swap one of similar value on or a slight charge for an upgrade. my other question was more about if i got a bike at the LBS and really like it for years to come but feel like i need to upgrade the compontents, how expensive is that to do? meaning i could buy a true entry level bike that fits perfect with lower end components, or $1200 for an upgrade.... guess its a matter of how serious i get and will i really see the benefit of the change.

agreed, wheels can be moved if i upgrade... same with seat or even the handlebar extention if i choose. the big thing is i have to separate what i want from what i need. of course i'd love to have a nice really light $2000 bike. but with a wife adn 2 kids to feed, mortgage payments, etc.... i really need enough to enjoy safely, not excel. 

the LBS i spoke to charges $50 to fit (which is mandatory. they wont sell a bike to you if you walk in the door without a fit), they apply the fit cost to the price of the bike. i know 2 people that have been there and love it and as i said, its a bit out of the way for me. speaking on the phone, the guy said to me "i can get you in a bike for under $800 but if you got to $1000 or a bit above, its going to be a better product, but either way you'll be happy."

I can see how BD isa great deal for people, just need to really know what you're talking about.... or, just want a bike with great components that will fit "good".... 

seems like this process is similar to buying pants. i can buy some brands off the rack and they will fit fine. or i can have a pair custom taylored for me out of silk material if i wanted. but either way i'll walk out of the house with pants that fit to a degreee.

agree?


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## PJ352 (Dec 5, 2007)

gskalt said:


> in working with the LBS i would expect that if in order to fit me right that if i needed for example a different set of handlebars, they could swap one of similar value on or a slight charge for an upgrade.


My advice on this is to discuss the scenario with your LBS - or, the one you ultimately purchase from. Taking a step back, the onus is on them to get sizing right. Once that's accomplished (whether from an ordered bike or inventory), then comes the fitting. 

I won't say it's unusual to swap bars out, but it's somewhat uncommon, at least at the initial fitting. Stems, yes, but I think a bar swap would be more likely after a cyclist (especially a new cyclist) builds some saddle time. That said, to avoid surprises, discuss this with the LBS. 



gskalt said:


> My other question was more about if i got a bike at the LBS and really like it for years to come but feel like i need to upgrade the compontents, how expensive is that to do? meaning i could buy a true entry level bike that fits perfect with lower end components, or $1200 for an upgrade.... guess its a matter of how serious i get and will i really see the benefit of the change.


I'm not sure I'm understanding this, but I'll answer this way.... If you buy an entry level bike for around $800, ride it a few years just maintaining/ repairing/ replacing (with like parts) as needed, then decide you want to upgrade 1-2 levels up in groupset, I'll guesstimate it costing around $250. This estimate is based on you going from either an 8 speed drive train to 9, or 9 speed drivetrain to 10. IMO it wouldn't make much sense to go to 9 speed, since the cost is about the same. 

One caveat is that cost hinges on where you find the parts and how willing you'd be to buy used, so consider my guesstimate just that.

I go back to it being more cost effective to buy that 'upgraded' drivetrain on the next model up initially, rather than adding it later. But (IMO) an argument could be made that buying the lower end bike limits losses if you decide cycling isn't for you. And if it is, the lower level groupset isn't going to hold you back any. As long as they're set up/ tuned correctly, they all perform well and will prove durable.



gskalt said:


> agreed, wheels can be moved if i upgrade... same with seat or even the handlebar extention if i choose. the big thing is *i have to separate what i want from what i need*. of course i'd love to have a nice really light $2000 bike. but with a wife adn 2 kids to feed, mortgage payments, etc.... i really need enough to enjoy safely, not excel.


Understood. FWIW I've been doing adult (fitness) road riding for ~ 28 years now and have come to believe that a well fitting bike with mid-range components is more enjoyable than a bike not so well fitting with higher end components. 

That given, I tend to steer noobs to LBS's for their sizing/ fit assistance and while it's your money so your choice, I seldom recommend 'buying up' to start.



gskalt said:


> the LBS i spoke to charges $50 to fit (which is mandatory. *they wont sell a bike to you if you walk in the door without a fit*), they apply the fit cost to the price of the bike. i know 2 people that have been there and love it and as i said, its a bit out of the way for me. speaking on the phone, the guy said to me "i can get you in a bike for under $800 but if you got to $1000 or a bit above, its going to be a better product, but either way you'll be happy."


Kudos to this shop. If they have a good rep in your area, by all means consider them for your bike purchase. With their attitudes, I think they'll prove a valuable resource to you, both during your purchase and into the future.



gskalt said:


> I can see how BD isa great deal for people, just need to really know what you're talking about.... or, just want a bike with great components that will fit "good"....


JMO, but I'm not sure I'd call BD a _great_ deal for anyone, but they do have some decent offerings. They tend to spotlight (and upgrade) shifters, because that catches peoples eye. But looking further into some of the specs, they're mediocre, and they tend to offer framesets that employ older technologies, thus are cheaper to produce/ sell. 



gskalt said:


> Seems like this process is similar to buying pants. i can buy some brands off the rack and they will fit fine. or i can have a pair custom taylored for me out of silk material if i wanted. but either way i'll walk out of the house with pants that fit to a degreee.
> agree?


I agree on the fit aspects of what you say, but since you can have a very well fitting $750 bike or an ill fitting $4500 bike, I don't think the material matters. But my judgement may be clouded, because I like bikes/ cycling more than I like silk pants.


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## gskalt (Aug 13, 2012)

I was watching Goodfellas and saw the mob guys dressed so well... that's what had me thinking silk pants. 

Despite some positive feedback about BD, i think my decision will be to go to the LBS and see what my options are. i'll propose again bringing them the BD bike for them to assemble and fit but i'm thinking that if i buy from them, I have some one who know's what they're tlaking about, and also who will have some ownership in fitting me. BD will sell me the bike and then fill the next order. these guys will help me out if it doesnt fit. will i potentially get better bang for my buck with BD, but the assistnace is worth it. and besides, if i'm going to ride my first road bike, its going to be the best one i ever rode, so i dont need to break the bank to do it. if it makes sense to upgrade a few bucks to upgrade. also being able to unload my MTN bike for the probable cost of sales tax adn fit makes it worth it.

this shop will also rent a road bike for $125 for the week and apply half the price to a new purchase if i choose. 

i appreciate all the advise i've heard and will still keep reading until i make the purchase... likely not for a month or so.


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## PJ352 (Dec 5, 2007)

gskalt said:


> I was watching Goodfellas and saw the mob guys dressed so well... that's what had me thinking silk pants.
> 
> Despite some positive feedback about BD, i think my decision will be to go to the LBS and see what my options are. * i'll propose again bringing them the BD bike for them to assemble and fit but i'm thinking that if i buy from them, I have some one who know's what they're tlaking about, and also who will have some ownership in fitting me.* BD will sell me the bike and then fill the next order. these guys will help me out if it doesnt fit. will i potentially get better bang for my buck with BD, but the assistnace is worth it. and besides, if i'm going to ride my first road bike, its going to be the best one i ever rode, so i dont need to break the bank to do it. if it makes sense to upgrade a few bucks to upgrade. also being able to unload my MTN bike for the probable cost of sales tax adn fit makes it worth it.
> 
> ...


I obviously agree with going the LBS route, but re: the bold statement, keep in mind that if you buy online and end up with a less than optimal size, depending on how far off the geo is, a fitter may be forced to make some unnecessary compromises to your fit, and that affects the ultimate result. What I'm saying is... sizing comes first and has to be right to get fit right. 

To avoid guessing wrong on sizing, I suggest opting for a standard fitting at your LBS. They'll likely use a 'test bike' mounted to a stationary trainer and do what's called a static fit. Once that's done, you'd test ride the bike and note any adjustments/ tweaks needed. The goal isn't so much to dial in fit, but to get you sizing _requirements_ pinned down (NOT frame size). 

From there, you'd note the year, make, model and frame size of the test bike and compare its geo to the geo of online bikes of interest. The closer the numbers (again, not the frame size), the closer your fit will be to that of the test bike.

The above method betters your odds of success buying online, but pales in comparison to being able to test ride bikes making your decision based on fit/ feel, ride and handling. Your LBS's rental program is a nice option, and considering they'll fit you to the rental, represents a minimal investment.


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## gskalt (Aug 13, 2012)

makes sense. i was just looking up their hours online and their fitting for an existing bike is $150. dont know if that's the same as the assembly option, but it seems as if its a better way to go. to the point highlighted, its similar to trying to fit a round peg in a square hole. sure you can make it work, but will it be optimal? no. unless i get very lucky. it all boils down to this

Perfect fit on good entry level bike with adequate components VS adequate fit on a bike with potentially better components and carbon fork. 

as i said, no matter what bike i buy it will be a better / smoother ride than my current MTN bike. so if i'm going to go on a long drive or a race in a Jeep on the open road now, surely a low level BMW would be a vast improvement... I dont need to jump right into the 500 series. let me cut my teeth on a well fit, solid bike where i can take it 15 miles to get serviced OR on a potentially better component set up where i'd have to deal with shipping it back with problems. I'm willing to pay a bit of a premium. numbers wise, it looks like this:

BD/Giantnerd bike for approx $600, plus $100 to assemble / fit OR
LBS bike including fit for up to $1000 (plus tax), less the trade in of my MTN bike.. which will ikely offset tax. 

if i knew my measurements, i could make a better educated purchase of an online bike. however, given the reputation of this LBS, plus another one more convenient to work if need be, I can get myself on a bike that I know will fit really well and make my experience more enjoyable.

Now I'm looking to drop $200 ish on a wetsuit.


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## PJ352 (Dec 5, 2007)

gskalt said:


> ... however, given the reputation of this LBS, plus another one more convenient to work if need be, *I can get myself on a bike that I know will fit really well and make my experience more enjoyable*.
> 
> Now I'm looking to drop $200 ish on a wetsuit.


IMO, sound logic in your entire post, but the bold statement is really the bottom line.

Sorry, can't help with the wetsuit. :nonod:


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## EHietpas (Feb 9, 2012)

The website was posted on here as being VERY VERY new and possibly questionable. GO with bikesdirect or something a little bit more reputable. But since you are new, your better off at a local shop or craigslist so you can actually ride the bike and feel the bike before you buy it.


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## gskalt (Aug 13, 2012)

well i need a good fitting wetsuit that will make my biking expereince better, if i dont take it off, i'll shave a few minutes off my time for the triathlon  LOL

yeah - you know my golf club comparison before kind of explains it too. sure i could have gotten a perfect fitting club set for me and maybe it would shave a few strokes off my game. or i could learn how to be more consistent on the course. biking, its a safety issue. i need shifting to be reliable and if it all doesnt fit, i could get muscle and tendon injuries


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## PJ352 (Dec 5, 2007)

gskalt said:


> well i need a good fitting wetsuit that will make my biking expereince better, if i dont take it off, i'll shave a few minutes off my time for the triathlon  LOL
> 
> yeah - you know my golf club comparison before kind of explains it too. sure i could have gotten a perfect fitting club set for me and maybe it would shave a few strokes off my game. or i could learn how to be more consistent on the course. *biking, its a safety issue*. i need shifting to be reliable and *if it all doesnt fit, i could get muscle and tendon injuries*


Very true. More times than not, we (here on RBR) focus on fit/ form and how they tie into comfort and efficiency, but (as you say) a poor fit (and I'd include form) can also raise the likelihood of experiencing injuries.

The comment you made re: consistency holds true in cycling as well, thus the numerous posts relating to pedal stroke, cadence and proper gearing. All play a role, IME.


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## gskalt (Aug 13, 2012)

just like anything else form and technique is as much safety as it is performance. i know from past experience that unproper skating technique can hurt your leg muscles (groin especially), as i've injured that playing hockey before. 

proper gearing is something i'm completely oblivious to. 

relating to my initial post.... isnt it weird that tomasso sells all of their bikes exclusively through giantnerd... who seems to only sell tomosso bikes?


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## PJ352 (Dec 5, 2007)

gskalt said:


> ... proper gearing is something i'm completely oblivious to.


Most are, so you're not alone. Simply put, gearing should match the riders fitness level and terrain. That way, the proper gear combos can be chosen and still keep cadence up. 

This is (yet another) facet of bike buying that points up the value of going the LBS route. The reputable ones will take the time to discuss what might work best for you. And if it's not OE'd on the bike of choice, they'll usually work out a price to swap out cranksets/ cassettes and get you the right gearing.



gskalt said:


> relating to my initial post.... isnt it weird that tomasso sells all of their bikes exclusively through giantnerd... who seems to only sell tomosso bikes?


I'm not a retail or business savvy person by nature, but it might be that Tomasso saw this as a better way to market their bikes/ Giantnerd is just a website that they run behind the scenes or it's independent and bought the rights to Tomasso (along with other possibilities).

There are several other examples of twists and turns in bike manufacturing/ marketing. BD purchased the rights to manufacture and sell Motobecane, Dawes (among others) which are no more. I'm not suggesting that the end products are all bad, but they certainly don't represent the brands of yesteryear.

EDIT: FWIW, just noticed that Giantnerd also sells Schwinn, GT and Marin.


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## gskalt (Aug 13, 2012)

I know GT from my teenage (moons ago) BMX days. ahh, my old mongoose! but the BD thing about buying names is actually a deceptive business practice. the intention is obviosly to get somebody to think "wow, Dawes is a great bike, at that price i'm all over it" .. 

yeah again teh bikeshop would have to give me some good insight on good practice. cadence will be easier to amintain when i'm not struggling on the hills with a MTN bike. and get in better shape. 

what do you mean "not an OE'd?


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## PJ352 (Dec 5, 2007)

gskalt said:


> I know GT from my teenage (moons ago) BMX days. ahh, my old mongoose! but the BD thing about buying names is actually a deceptive business practice. the intention is obviosly to get somebody to think "wow, Dawes is a great bike, at that price i'm all over it" ..
> 
> yeah again teh bikeshop would have to give me some good insight on good practice. cadence will be easier to amintain when i'm not struggling on the hills with a MTN bike. and get in better shape.
> 
> what do you mean "not an OE'd?


Re: deceptive business practices, I can see both sides. While I agree with you that the uninformed may be buying something other than what they perceive it to be, on the flip side, someone would argue let the buyer beware - and that's where the value of this forum comes in...

OE is original equipment. Or, factory spec'd. As we touched on in an earlier post, some components (like handlebars) aren't commonly swapped out at time of purchase, but others (like cassettes), are.


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## gskalt (Aug 13, 2012)

its always buyer beware. the consumer can buy what they want to. the fact that the company is deceving with the out of business names is what is meant to deceive. look at the "websites" for motobecane, dawes, windsor, they look alike. no real info. the forum has been very helpful to me gaining information. look there are plenty of people that swear by BD and if they're happy, then good for them. despite recommendations, if i have a bad experience with the LBS, i wont recommend, so good/bad news travels. i see the value of getting on a bike and having someone put me on it correctly. if someone knows what they want and that the geometry/component/build works... then so be it.

ah... factory, out of the box, spec. yeah, like if im' at the LBS adn teh seat is unbearable, they can maybe swap one out for a better fit.


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## PJ352 (Dec 5, 2007)

gskalt said:


> its always buyer beware. the consumer can buy what they want to. the fact that the company is deceving with the out of business names is what is meant to deceive. look at the "websites" for motobecane, dawes, windsor, they look alike. no real info. the forum has been very helpful to me gaining information. look there are plenty of people that swear by BD and if they're happy, then good for them. despite recommendations, if i have a bad experience with the LBS, i wont recommend, so good/bad news travels. i see the value of getting on a bike and having someone put me on it correctly. if someone knows what they want and that the geometry/component/build works... then so be it.


You'll get no argument from me on what you offer. My previous statements were simply playing devils advocate - giving the other (pro) side of the 'argument'. And yes, I've been to all of those websites, so know what they offer.

Just as an aside, this forum gets a fair number of posts re: buying online versus LBS. While I (and some others) tend to steer folks towards the LBS for the reasons I've already mentioned, in the interest of assisting, I usually also provide methods that I think will help noobs avoid the pitfalls of buying online - mainly, pinning down sizing requirements - as I did in your case. From there, it's their choice which direction to go and we've done what we could to educate.



gskalt said:


> ah... factory, out of the box, spec. yeah, like if im' at the LBS adn teh seat is unbearable, they can maybe swap one out for a better fit.


Yup, like that. :thumbsup:


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## gskalt (Aug 13, 2012)

so check this out. was just looking up other articles on bicycles (i should really read or go to sleep). but found that i'm not the only person who has gone down my road 

so check this site: SmartFit Bicycle Fitting System!

was posted in a thread about a year ago, and this place is also pretty close by. seems very reputable in the bike commuity online. havent heard of them here but i also havent sought it out. this is the one i was intending on visiting: 

Bicycle World

both recognized in cycling publications! interesting.


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## PJ352 (Dec 5, 2007)

gskalt said:


> so check this out. was just looking up other articles on bicycles (i should really read or go to sleep). but found that i'm not the only person who has gone down my road
> 
> so check this site: SmartFit Bicycle Fitting System!
> 
> ...


Ah, so you're a fellow New Yorker. I'm probably about 150 miles north of you.

I've been to that Smartcycles website many times. At one point I was seriously considering a Mondonico.

I'm not familiar with their fit system, but will offer that your being new to road riding, I'd hold off on any involved or pro fitting. Reason being, as you build saddle time, your fit will evolve, so initially a standard fitting (like the one mentioned in your second link) should suffice.


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## gskalt (Aug 13, 2012)

actually, i've spent plenty of time in NYC, lived there for 10 years, but now... i'm in Stamford, CT, near NYC, south of Red Sox Nation. are you near Albany? this place, as you know is in Norwalk... which is 15 minutes from me. The place i'm plannig on going to in Mt Kisco, is the same distance.

I am thinking your last point makes a lot of sense. A basic approach which will include discussions of my intentions with the bike, my age, etc.. will benefit me more than getting a professional fit!


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## perryrl (Aug 20, 2012)

I bought my Tommaso Imola Carbon about a month ago. I went to my LBS first as I needed to know my frame size. Turns out, I'm a 56. I'm not into1000's of miles a month or going to go for the TDF next year. My budget was just under 700 with everything. Sure I may have cut some corners with components but I accept that and understand that, so as long as you are comfortable with that, then GiantNerd is a decent place to purchase from. I recommend that you skip out on the genius build and have your local LBS assemble to keep your warranty. I got the genius build and still had to have my local LBS fine tune the gears. As for the bike, I love it. It's a bit of a pig at 22lbs, but easier and cheaper for me to lose 10lbs. than the bike (I'm 220). I have just over 200 miles and have had no problems. I can keep a 14-15 mph pace for 30+ miles with no problem. I would have used my LBS, but the cheapest he could get was 1200 (Trek only) and I don't know if this is something that I will do for an extended amount of time. If after a year or so, I've gotten more serious with this and lost some weight, then a full carbon may be in my future, but I still can't say that I'll spend thousands on one. I have no problem in investing in a chinese frame as every manufacturer's frames come from China or Taiwan anyway. Components will be a different story as I am a die hard sram fan. This comes from my DB mountain bike with X5 components. But I've gotten way off the subject and if you want to go with a Tommaso, just ensure that you know your proper size and get a fitting afterward as well. Good luck.


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## PJ352 (Dec 5, 2007)

gskalt said:


> actually, i've spent plenty of time in NYC, lived there for 10 years, but now... i'm in Stamford, CT, near NYC, south of Red Sox Nation. are you near Albany? this place, as you know is in Norwalk... which is 15 minutes from me. The place i'm plannig on going to in Mt Kisco, is the same distance.
> 
> I am thinking your last point makes a lot of sense. A basic approach which will include discussions of my intentions with the bike, my age, etc.. will benefit me more than getting a professional fit!


Ah, gotcha. I'm north of Albany, but you've got the general area.

As long as you deal with reputable LBS's, the basic approach will do you fine for now. As I mentioned, as you build saddle time and your fitness improves, your fit will evolve. At some point in the future re-assess your fit, _then... maybe..._ consider a more extensive fitting.


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## gskalt (Aug 13, 2012)

Thanks! I think my course of action will be to go to the reputable LBS near me and check them out. before i even commit to a fitting, I will explain my price range and see waht the options are. If there is something that looks like it could work, then I will get the $50 fitting but I will also make CRYSTAL clear the my limit is my limit and upselling me will only have me take my business elsewhere. I do have the benefit of getting something for my MTN bike which will at least fray the cost a bit.

at this piont, i'm going to probably wait until another month goes by and they want to clear out the 2012 and whatever 2011 models are there. again, i'd like to get away from the bottom of the level components, but feel that since i've never ridden a road bike, i wont appreciate the difference between the top or middle/low end product. 

To the point PJ 352 made about the fittings, makes PERFECT sense. I am not, or will not for a while get to a point where a pro fit is going to make a difference for me. I would likely not see the benefit of it. I think about it like with my kids. my older son started playing hockey and baseball over the past 1.5 years. at this point I know enough about how to play both of those sports where i can help him. He would not benefit from me hiring the Yankees batting coach or Rangers skating instructor the way he would in 3-5 years when he understands more basic skills!!!


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## PJ352 (Dec 5, 2007)

A couple of thoughts on the above....

Even if you aren't going to purchase for a month or so, I suggest taking some time to visit a couple of reputable shops in your area. The reason I mention this is because as the year progresses, inventory dwindles, so closeout selection in your size will dwindle as well, limiting your options next month.

Speaking of options, your alternate plan for the $50 fitting is (IMO) a good plan B, if it comes to that.

Re: avoiding the lower level components, TBH, I'd focus more on getting sizing/ fit assistance because (similar to that pro fit) it's unlikely you'll notice much difference between Sora and Ultegra. Shifter function differs, but being new to road riding, there's a good chance (like most others) you'll be favoring the hood position, where Sora's thumb tabs operate fine. And once groupsets are set up/ tuned correctly, all function well and will prove durable. 

Lastly, just a FYI re: pro fittings. Not always, but generally speaking cyclists opt for them because of some niggling fit issue that can't be resolved. But yes, as a cyclist becomes more serious/ savvy the prospect of a pro fitting grows. Depending on a number of factors, it may take years to reach that point.


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## gskalt (Aug 13, 2012)

PJ352 said:


> A couple of thoughts on the above....
> 
> Even if you aren't going to purchase for a month or so, I suggest taking some time to visit a couple of reputable shops in your area. The reason I mention this is because as the year progresses, inventory dwindles, so closeout selection in your size will dwindle as well, limiting your options next month.
> 
> ...


that's pretty much the plan. visit the store over the next 2 weeks or so and see what my options are in the price range, knowing that it could be one of 5 bikes. they will also know my top $ that i can spend, my budget meaning no upselling. there are 3 other stores in my area, besides the place that does the pro fit.

1 - tri store, mostly mid/high end stuff across all aspects of the sport. cheapest bike they had was a Felt z85 which had some upgraded wheels, and was about $1100-1200. no pedals.
2 - store nearest me, bad experience, and only sells 2 brands in my range. limiting me to 2 bikes.
3 - new branch of a local store (Danny's bikes in NY). a store 30 minutes away takes trade ins, which means i'd have to go there to have it assessed. they have a good rep from what i have heard but the new store is BRAND new within the past 2-3 months. 

guess if they try too much to upsell me or dont have anything suitable for me, i could go the BD route with my fitting but would prefer not to

so after that i think i'm probably going to go with the regulr pedals with the baskets for the feet. not sure i'm ready for clipless, that could be my first upgrade.


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## PJ352 (Dec 5, 2007)

gskalt said:


> ... guess if they try too much to upsell me or dont have anything suitable for me, i could go the BD route with my fitting but would prefer not to
> 
> so after that i think i'm probably going to go with the regulr pedals with the baskets for the feet. not sure i'm ready for clipless, that could be my first upgrade.


If (as you say) a couple of the shops near you have a good rep, I would think they'd respect your wishes to stay in your price range. That aside, time will tell what your options are, but given your general location I'd think you'd have other options besides BD (or similar). 

Some LBS's sell use bikes, and there's always private sellers (CL, community news...). With private sales, it's always advisable to ask the seller to bring the bike to a LBS for mechanical and fit assessment. You could also ask for a ballpark value on the bike, because that can vary by region. 

Platform pedals (with/ without clips and straps) will do you fine for the time being. I don't think there's a clear cut right or wrong re: when to go clipless, but giving yourself some time to acclimate to how a road bike handles has some advantages - like allowing time for you to research what pedal system might work best and budget for the upgrade.


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## gskalt (Aug 13, 2012)

PJ352 said:


> If (as you say) a couple of the shops near you have a good rep, I would think they'd respect your wishes to stay in your price range. That aside, time will tell what your options are, but given your general location I'd think you'd have other options besides BD (or similar).
> 
> Some LBS's sell use bikes, and there's always private sellers (CL, community news...). With private sales, it's always advisable to ask the seller to bring the bike to a LBS for mechanical and fit assessment. You could also ask for a ballpark value on the bike, because that can vary by region.
> 
> Platform pedals (with/ without clips and straps) will do you fine for the time being. I don't think there's a clear cut right or wrong re: when to go clipless, but giving yourself some time to acclimate to how a road bike handles has some advantages - like allowing time for you to research what pedal system might work best and budget for the upgrade.


Once I visit the store, hopefully next week, I'll get a better sense of what my options will be there. i dont think it will be difficult to stay in my range. I want to keep my overall out of pocket at $800 (or so), including pedals, etc. trading in my mtn bike will help. I'm perfectly willing to take 2010 or 2011, 2012 models as I wouldnt know the difference. He was pretty clear on the phone that he'd be able to get me in a bike for under $800, now its a matter of if that bike will fit. 

I will buy the bike new, at this shop, unless something just doesnt add up and i go online. my worry about going to craigs list, etc is that i'll have to spend the money to get the bike tuned up, and who knows if it will even be in good enough shape? getting to someone's house, finding a shop near by, etc... its a hassle. 

agree on the pedals. Let me get used to riding a road bike, the feel of everything, etc. then i'll make a switch. clipless pedals and shoes sound like the perfect holiday gift at some point  so do tri bars, an indoor trainer, etc. 

I just think that i want to avoidt he lowest level components if possible. but do you think i would even realize the benefit of better components, if i dont have anything to base it on?


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## PJ352 (Dec 5, 2007)

gskalt said:


> Once I visit the store, hopefully next week, I'll get a better sense of what my options will be there. i dont think it will be difficult to stay in my range. I want to keep my overall out of pocket at $800 (or so), including pedals, etc. trading in my mtn bike will help. *I'm perfectly willing to take 2010 or 2011, 2012 models as I wouldnt know the difference. He was pretty clear on the phone that he'd be able to get me in a bike for under $800, now its a matter of if that bike will fit. *


Besides the cost savings, there are some advantages in buying a 1-2 year old NOS bike. Oftentimes with each new model year, bikes are de-spec'd and prices increase. Seems especially prevalent in this sagging economy.

Sounds like this particular shop is more than willing to work with you within your price range. As far as getting a bike that fits, if the LBS carries an adequate inventory or the model is available from a distributor, fitting you shouldn't be an issue. 



gskalt said:


> I will buy the bike new, at this shop, unless something just doesnt add up and i go online. my worry about going to craigs list, etc is that i'll have to spend the money to get the bike tuned up, and who knows if it will even be in good enough shape? getting to someone's house, finding a shop near by, etc... its a hassle.


Understood. I'm simply offering alternatives, but IMO (whenever possible) buying new from a reputable LBS is the BEST option. 



gskalt said:


> agree on the pedals. Let me get used to riding a road bike, the feel of everything, etc. then i'll make a switch. *clipless pedals and shoes sound like the perfect holiday gift at some point  so do tri bars, an indoor trainer*, etc.


After spending an hour on the indoor trainer, you might alter that opinion. They don't call them torture devices for nothin'.  



gskalt said:


> I just think that i want to avoidt he lowest level components if possible. but do you think i would even realize the benefit of better components, if i dont have anything to base it on?


Depends. Other than your mentioning mtn biking, we don't know much about your cycling experiences, and IME they can color opinions. If you're used to upper end mtn bike components, you _may_ notice some differences in the lower end road groups, but in actuality the main differences are in weight, finish and a slightly more refined feel. 

That said, while we all want the most value for our money, once a groupset is set up/ tuned properly, they all function/ perform well, so I'd suggest focusing more on which bike fits/ feels the best to you. Besides, if you're like most of us, a new bike (or at least upgrades) are in your future.


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## gskalt (Aug 13, 2012)

thanks again. re the trainer, probably toruture but during th cold months of darkness, i need to stay fit. if its the trainer or going to the gym, i can do the trainer at home, while watching a hockey game, or TV show. it takes the "i dont feel like going out" out of the excuse choice.

older bikes take up space. from a quality perspective, tehy're still goo dfor what i need. i know this from my days when i Skied. new models replace old ones each year. also its why this is the time of year to buy a new car. they want to clear the lot. 

my mountain biking experience is negligable. i have a lower level trek (4500 model). i've only ridden on trails a few times. while i enjoyed it, the banging and bumping werent ideal. and certainly not family friendly going forward. i have no expereinces, so then would it be that the lower end stuff is sufficient? as long as the bike fits?

should i focus on an aluminum bike? with carbon forks if possible? or will i not really notice the difference?


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## PJ352 (Dec 5, 2007)

gskalt said:


> thanks again. re the trainer, probably toruture but during th cold months of darkness, i need to stay fit. if its the trainer or going to the gym, i can do the trainer at home, while watching a hockey game, or TV show. it takes the "i dont feel like going out" out of the excuse choice.


As someone who lives in a cold climate and has used a trainer for the past ~21 years, I agree with everything you've offered. The first 5-6 years I started fitness riding, I reverted back to a sedentary lifestyle in the 'off season', then (re) started riding in the spring. As you say, I needed to _stay_ fit, so the stationary trainer purchase was made. Also as you say, I just hop on the bike, torture myself for ~ an hour 5 days a week, all without leaving home. No excuses!  



gskalt said:


> my mountain biking experience is negligable. i have a lower level trek (4500 model). i've only ridden on trails a few times. while i enjoyed it, the banging and bumping werent ideal. and certainly not family friendly going forward. i have no expereinces, so then *would it be that the lower end stuff is sufficient? as long as the bike fits?*


Definitely. When the time comes, discuss your intended uses/ goals and price range with the LBS's in your area and go from there. If you live in fairly hilly terrain, also discuss some gearing options, but your being in pretty good shape I'd think a compact crankset would be a viable option for you. 



gskalt said:


> should i focus on an aluminum bike? with carbon forks if possible? or will i not really notice the difference?


In your price range, you'll probably be looking at an aluminum frame bike with a CF fork, but if a bike you favored had an alu fork I wouldn't walk away from it. There are things you can do to smooth out the ride a bit, like running wider tires at lower pressures.


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## gskalt (Aug 13, 2012)

yeah i try to keep in shape. for every reason imaginable.... good example for the kids, feel better, etc. i am nearly 2 years out from major abdominal surgery to remove a malignant tumor. all is fine now, but staying in shape will continue to improve my odds. and if in the winter i'm going to sit on my butt and watch a hockey game or a TV show with my wife, i might as well get some exercise diong it. triathlon stuff is only part of it..

when you say compact crankset, you're talking 2 gears up front right? essentially making my bike an 18 or 20 speed? that should be plenty. 

as for the aluminum vs carbon fiber. again if a ride is "harsh", what is that, vibrations? being used to knobby tires on my MTN bike, its probably something i can get used to. if it comes to spending $200 extra, i wonder if its worth CF Fork or upgrade components. guess it depends on my options.


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## PJ352 (Dec 5, 2007)

gskalt said:


> ... i am nearly 2 years out from major abdominal surgery to remove a malignant tumor. all is fine now, but staying in shape will continue to improve my odds...


Glad you're doing well. Hope you stay the course... :thumbsup:



gskalt said:


> when you say compact crankset, you're talking 2 gears up front right? essentially making my bike an 18 or 20 speed? that should be plenty.


Yes, two rings in front. Generally speaking, compact cranksets have 50T/ 34T rings, triples have 50T/ 40T/ 30T and standard doubles use 53T/ 39T.

With most current offerings, the rear can have between 8 and 11 cogs, but the total number of gears/ combos isn't as important as matching the choices to a riders fitness/ terrain. 

I'm of the opinion that most recreational riders need and use the lower gears/ combos far more than the higher ones, so erring on the side of lower is generally the better choice. I'm offering this as a FYI. It'll all get sorted out in your discussions at the LBS's you visit, so don't be overly concerned now.



gskalt said:


> as for the aluminum vs carbon fiber. again* if a ride is "harsh", what is that, vibrations?* being used to knobby tires on my MTN bike, its probably something i can get used to. if it comes to spending $200 extra, i wonder if its worth CF Fork or upgrade components. guess it depends on my options.


Yes, harshness usually translates to vibrations, or some would say, road buzz. Ride quality is a subjective aspect of cycling, influenced by a number of factors, but all else being equal, IMO a CF fork offers some advantages over aluminum in ride quality. Whether it's worth ~$200 is something for you to decide, but as you say, depends on your options at the time.

I'd suggest rest riding a few bikes to determine that - as well as other preferences. As valuable as these forums are for sharing information/ opinions, at some point the buyer has to get out and ride some bikes, cuz that's what they're for! :thumbsup:


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## gskalt (Aug 13, 2012)

thanks for the well wishes! all that aside, i think going through the cancer situation made me a better person. I dont get aggravated at things the way i used to. i laugh AT people when i hear their complaints of minutae and pettiness. 

gears - lower means harder/fewer and longer strokes? high means, uphill, easier strokes right?

yeah guess the carbon forks and upgraded compenents are what the LBS meant when he said "i'll be able to get you on a bike fro $750-800, but you will likely be happier if you can do $1000" the common line used by all the LBS were along that line of buy it now, its cheaper than upgrading when you get more into it. that said, a friend just did a 1/2 iron man and i know she was unhappy with her entry level bike (dont know if she upgraded yet) as the fit had to be adjusted and the shifting wasnt great. she got the bike 2-3 years ago.


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## PJ352 (Dec 5, 2007)

gskalt said:


> thanks for the well wishes! all that aside, i think going through the cancer situation made me a better person. I dont get aggravated at things the way i used to. i laugh AT people when i hear their complaints of minutae and pettiness.


I can understand that. While I won't pretend to have endured what you have, I've had some personal situations that have brought me to a similar place. Things that used to bother me aren't a hiccup in my day now. The _really_ important stuff, I deal with as best I can. 



gskalt said:


> gears - lower means harder/fewer and longer strokes? high means, uphill, easier strokes right?


Switch it and you got it right. Lower gears means easier pedaling/ higher cadence. Higher gears means harder pedaling/ lower cadence. Bigger in back = lower, but bigger in front = higher. 



gskalt said:


> yeah guess the carbon forks and upgraded compenents are what the LBS meant when he said "i'll be able to get you on a bike fro $750-800, but you will likely be happier if you can do $1000" the common line used by all the LBS were along that line of buy it now, its cheaper than upgrading when you get more into it.


As long as you DO "get more into it" that logic holds true, but (realistically speaking) not everyone does. I could just as easily rationalize that keeping to about the $800 mark minimizes any loss if you decide to resell.

Just to clarify, I'm not taking a 'side' here, rather, arguing the logic of both. But in your LBS's defense, they aren't making a boatload more money off you if you up your budget by about $200, so I think there advice is well intended. 



gskalt said:


> That said, a friend just did a 1/2 iron man and i know she was unhappy with her entry level bike (dont know if she upgraded yet) as the fit had to be adjusted and the shifting wasnt great. she got the bike 2-3 years ago.


I can't offer much re: your friends fit issues because if sizing is off, a fitting won't go well, but I'd bet that given 1-2 hours with her bike I (or any capable wrench) could improve drivetrain performance. Which brings us back to most any groupset will perform well once set up/ tuned correctly.


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## gskalt (Aug 13, 2012)

i think with my friend it could also be that she's riding it a lot more, a lot farther than she expected. she bought a floor model from teh LBOS near me which I'm NOT going to.... partially becuase she felt they cuold have done more to assist her wtih fitting the floor model than trying to upsell her to something else. it took her coming back for them to even adjust the seat for her (which helped).

yeah i'm likley going to opt for the best i can get within my range. i will notice improvements on even the lowest end bike, just dont watn to out grow its suitabiilty, but realistically, i probably wont. or at least anytime soon.

funny, i try to use the highest gear i can most of the time. maybe its becuase i'm trying to make up speed on my MTN bike. but assuming my new road bike will be a bit lighter (my bike is about 31 pounds) and will have more appropriate tires for road riding, my tune may change.

And yes, some adversity in life makes one appreciate what's really important. people take way too much for granted, and THAT is something that pisses me off


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