# Moots Compact SL eye candy



## Francis Cebedo

Moots is a bike you can stare at and stare at. This is Forrest's bike. Semi-pro downhiller going roadie. 16.4 lbs. Enjoy!

<img src="https://mtbr.com/author/moots/Moots-BB-Shell-Welds.jpg">


<img src="https://mtbr.com/author/moots/Moots-front-view-small.jpg">


<img src="https://mtbr.com/author/moots/Moots-head-tube-badge.jpg">

<img src="https://mtbr.com/author/moots/Moots-head-tube-welds-2.jpg">

<img src="https://mtbr.com/author/moots/Moots-seat-collar-1.jpg">

<img src="https://mtbr.com/author/moots/Moots-seat-collar.jpg">

<img src="https://mtbr.com/author/moots/Moots-Ti-Logo.jpg">

<img src="https://mtbr.com/author/moots/Moots-good-shot-whole.jpg">

<img src="https://mtbr.com/author/moots/Moots1.jpg">

fc


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## HazemBata

peeeeeerty. you went all out on this bike. how do you like the fork?

i will be buying a high end bike soon. the one thing that i have determined is that it will be carbon. but when i see pics like these (which as very crisp and vibrant btw (nice camera)) i begin to hesitate......


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## Beerman

I just came off of another carbon bike (new Orbea Opal, and have had several others), and I will never ride anything but a metal bike. My new Compact SL is by far the best bike I have ever put a leg over. Quick, stiff, compliant, stable, comfortable, it's weird how some of those terms can exist together. I'm tickled to death. Here is a quick and dirty pic, still waiting on a new seatpost, but you get the idea.


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## HazemBata

Beerman,

The thing I am most concerned with is vibration absorbtion. I know people say to let air out of the tires and other tricks, but I want that from the frame. Can you compare the vibration absorbtion of the Opal to the Moots? Thanks.

BTW, the welds on the Moots are second to none.


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## Beerman

That's actually one of the weird things I can't explain. Everyone talks about how CF is supposed to be second to none in regards to vibration absorbtion, but I think the Moots soaks it up better. I bought the Compact SL too which is supposed to be stiffer. It's really hard to explain, and I don't know if all Ti bikes ride as well as the Moots as I don't have any other Ti experience. Some people like CF and some like metal bikes. I have had several of each and was set on CF until I rode a quality Ti bike, my whole perspective has changed. I have ridden CF bikes from Trek, Scott, Time, Look, and Kestrel. My Opal is the best CF bike I have ever ridden next to the Look 585 and it is super nice, super quick, super efficient. But my Compact SL is all of that, has personality, and is even more comofrtable. Before you decide, spend 30 or 40 miles minimum on mixed surfaces, with tough climbs and fast decents on both a high end CF bike and a Moots.


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## alienator

HazemBata said:


> Beerman,
> 
> The thing I am most concerned with is vibration absorbtion. I know people say to let air out of the tires and other tricks, but I want that from the frame. Can you compare the vibration absorbtion of the Opal to the Moots? Thanks.
> 
> BTW, the welds on the Moots are second to none.


People invest too much in the "carbon fiber damps vibes" thing. Carbon fiber frames can be rigid ball-busters, limp noodles, or something in between. Same with other materials. Aluminum frames used to be known for being harsh as hell, but then makers learned more about how to work with Al in bike frames. Now, the Al is harsh bit isn't necessarily true.

The number one best way to get a more comfy ride is to ride w/ less pressure in the tires or ride tires that require less pressure.

Stiffness, vibration damping, et al are things that are peculiar to a particular design, not necessarily a particular material.


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## Jed Peters

Did I say this yet?

"holy spacer stack, fooooreeee!"


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## Francis Cebedo

alienator said:


> People invest too much in the "carbon fiber damps vibes" thing. Carbon fiber frames can be rigid ball-busters, limp noodles, or something in between. Same with other materials. Aluminum frames used to be known for being harsh as hell, but then makers learned more about how to work with Al in bike frames. Now, the Al is harsh bit isn't necessarily true.
> 
> The number one best way to get a more comfy ride is to ride w/ less pressure in the tires or ride tires that require less pressure.
> 
> Stiffness, vibration damping, et al are things that are peculiar to a particular design, not necessarily a particular material.



I couldn't disagree more. Materials have their inherent damping properties. Carbon fiber damps vibrations more than aluminum. Sure you can make an aluminum frame that's smoother than you can make a carbon fiber frame but fact is no one does. Bikes are generally made in the same vein to complement the material's inherent characteristics.

I've ridden a lot of aluminum frames and about 6 carbon frames. Carbon frames most often absorb more vibration than aluminum frames.

I'm still waiting for the carbon frame with aluminum stays to be created.

francois


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## alienator

francois said:


> I couldn't disagree more. Materials have their inherent damping properties. Carbon fiber damps vibrations more than aluminum. Sure you can make an aluminum frame that's smoother than you can make a carbon fiber frame but fact is no one does. Bikes are generally made in the same vein to complement the material's inherent characteristics.
> 
> I've ridden a lot of aluminum frames and about 6 carbon frames. Carbon frames most often absorb more vibration than aluminum frames.
> 
> I'm still waiting for the carbon frame with aluminum stays to be created.
> 
> francois


Well, disagree all you want, but a bike's damping characteristics are a function of the design, which is a combo of materials AND geometry. And a frame's vibe damping characteristics minimal compared to what managing pressure in tires can do. There is no general statement that can be made about how materials are used in bikes other than the choice of a given material is influenced by market concerns in more than a few cases.

As for your experiences on different frames, that is your opinion, and that is fine for you. However, if you wanted to be sure that your opinion wasn't colored by any bias, you would make sure that on each of those frames geometry, components, air pressure were all exactly the same and that you rode over the exact same roads at the same speeds. Without that, you can't say that your views aren't subjective. And there's naught wrong with that either. When it's your butt on the bike, your view is the only one that counts.

It's tempting to say that the reason my Moots Compact rides better than my Waterford Paramount is because the Moots is built of Ti....but that would be wrong. The reason it rides better is because it fits better and because its design is better suited to my needs.


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## Beerman

I don't have any science behind my experiences...but compared to all my carbon bikes, an aluminum one, and a very nice steel bike, my Moots Compact SL (with carbon fork and seatpost) is the most comfortable, smoothest, best vibration damping bike I've ever ridden.


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## Francis Cebedo

alienator said:


> Well, disagree all you want, but a bike's damping characteristics are a function of the design, which is a combo of materials AND geometry. And a frame's vibe damping characteristics minimal compared to what managing pressure in tires can do. There is no general statement that can be made about how materials are used in bikes other than the choice of a given material is influenced by market concerns in more than a few cases.
> 
> As for your experiences on different frames, that is your opinion, and that is fine for you. However, if you wanted to be sure that your opinion wasn't colored by any bias, you would make sure that on each of those frames geometry, components, air pressure were all exactly the same and that you rode over the exact same roads at the same speeds. Without that, you can't say that your views aren't subjective. And there's naught wrong with that either. When it's your butt on the bike, your view is the only one that counts.
> 
> It's tempting to say that the reason my Moots Compact rides better than my Waterford Paramount is because the Moots is built of Ti....but that would be wrong. The reason it rides better is because it fits better and because its design is better suited to my needs.



What are you talking about?? Comparing your Moots to your Paramount and changing tire pressures to negate a frame's damping characteristics??

Geez, stay on topic and keep variables the same. Carbon fiber damps vibrations more than aluminum. And that is a factor that absolutely has to be considered when selecting a frame. It is not the only factor but to ignore it is silly.

francois


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## alienator

francois said:


> What are you talking about?? Comparing your Moots to your Paramount and changing tire pressures to negate a frame's damping characteristics??
> 
> Geez, stay on topic and keep variables the same. Carbon fiber damps vibrations more than aluminum. And that is a factor that absolutely has to be considered when selecting a frame. It is not the only factor but to ignore it is silly.
> 
> francois


No, you read wrong. I said you'd have to keep everything equal, with the frame being the only change. If you don't make a comparison in such a fashioin....where only one variable changes (in this case, the frame)....then you can't say exactly what is damping what. And it does no good to talk about how a given material behaves without some design context.

There's zero wrong w/ comparing my Moots to the Paramount. The only change between the two, so far, is the change in frames and a change in fork. The frame is sized differently, and it's geometry is different. Still, the difference is a little more than subtle....evolutionary, not revolutionary.

Again, I won't dispute what you feel after riding different bikes, but your views are subjective, not objective or empirical. CF is plenty variable in its constitution, and now that manufacturers have been working with Al in bikes for a while, the behavior of Al bikes is wide and varied. FWIW, there are more than a few CF bikes that ride like jackhammers......how can that be, given its sterling vibe damping characteristics?

We'll just have to disagree, on this, I guess, but coming from and engineering and physics background, it's my inclination to attribute a bike's ride to its design, not some material characteristic alone.


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## Francis Cebedo

I disagree. No, just kidding.

It's all good. I get to babysit a friend's brand new Compact SL while he's off for a month in China.


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## alienator

francois said:


> I disagree. No, just kidding.
> 
> It's all good. I get to babysit a friend's brand new Compact SL while he's off for a month in China.


How do I get a job as a bike babysitter? I wouldn't mind babysitting someone's Parlee.....Crumpton......


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## idris icabod

*Alienator-Picture please!*

Alienator,
I have been reading about your soon to be arriving Moots for literally months now. I am not sure if you have posted a picture yet, if so can you direct me to it. I feel after all this time that I am owed at least a look at it and if I didn't have one already, I would insist on a weekends visitation.
idris


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## alienator

idris icabod said:


> Alienator,
> I have been reading about your soon to be arriving Moots for literally months now. I am not sure if you have posted a picture yet, if so can you direct me to it. I feel after all this time that I am owed at least a look at it and if I didn't have one already, I would insist on a weekends visitation.
> idris



Right here: http://forums.roadbikereview.com/showthread.php?t=43931 , in the workstand without cables, bartape, chain.....Don't mind the spacers in the pic: I wanted some leeway for finding my best position before I cut the steerer.

I need to take some pics of it now that it's on the road....but pics always get put off to another day. I've put a touch over 200 miles on it, and I'm totally happy with it. I'll do a review in another 500 or so miles, but so far this is what I think:

1. I can't say for sure what works differently for me on the Moots frame than on me ol' Paramount, but the end result is a ride that is just better. A big part of it is the better fit. And the Moots seems to knock the amplitude of the vibes down better. The Paramount OS was a bit of a rough ride at times.

2. Response from the bike when I make the pedals go 'round seems more immediate, but that could just be a mental thing. It seems more noticeable on steep grades (Snyder Rd, west of the Snyder/Kolb intersection).

3. The Ouzo Pro Lite fork: I don't even notice it, so I think that means it's working perfectly. I have noticed that it doesn't visibly flex like my Easton EC90SL did over ripples. Plus, I just like the look of the Reynolds--not alot of decals, no decorative weave, a lot of black, and beauteous classic curve--over the Easton--straight legs, a few more, bigger decals.

4. I can feel my chakras shining more brightly because of the pink CK headset.

5. One of the very first things I had to do was remove the decals from the Moots layback post.

In the near future, the bike's gonna get a new set of hoops (DT rims, 240s hubs, and of course, DT spokes....from Gravy Wheels) and a new crank/bb......I'm having unnatural feelings in my nether regions for the Zero Gravity crankset........

Will you be doin' El Tour? I'll be there.


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## idris icabod

Very nice, but I will be needing a shot of the complete bike.

No El tour for me, I did it last year and there were a few hairy moments. I would hate to read of your Moots getting banged up. I did the CX race at Reid park yesterday. Lots of fun.


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