# Can't get tire on.... and it sucks.



## chromese5 (Jun 16, 2006)

I am replacing my some continental 3000's (they look older with it starting to square and the sides are unthreading) on my mavic (ma4?) rims with some continental ultra sports and I can not get them on. The last section of the tire is not going in the hooks like my old tires were. Do I need to stretch these new tires out or are the folding tires easier to put in?
I read that I should use talc on the innertube and I tried the soapy water method. any other suggestions? 

Thanks


btw, I changed the size from 700x23c to 700x25. I also tried some forrzias in 700x23c and those weren't going on either. PITA. Could it be the wire bead?


----------



## timmyc (Mar 21, 2006)

use the tire levers. get it on as much as you can with your hands, then take a tire lever, put it between the rim and the tire slide it along the tire to get it the rest of the way. just be careful not to pinch the tube. My Conti Gatorskins are tough to get onto my wheels, too and this saves me a lot of time and blisters.


----------



## ericm979 (Jun 26, 2005)

I find that wire bead tires are usually easier to mount than folding tires. But new tires always take a little more work to mount than worn tires.
Make sure that the part of the tire already mounted on the rim is in the center of the rim where the rim diameter is smallest. I do that by squeezing it to the center. If you put some air in the tire to prevent pinching the tube, let it out. Use the tire irons to poke the tube back so its not between the tire and rim, and then ease the tire on a small amount at a time. If you can't do it with your thumbs, use the tire irons.


----------



## stratoshark (Feb 2, 2004)

Try pushing the tire sidewalls toward the center of the rim bed after you have mounted as much of the beads as possible. This sometimes slackens the remaining unseated bead just enough to get the last bit onto the rim.

If you are using just your fingers and thumbs to push the last bit of tire onto the rim, then try using your palms also. Sort of "roll" the last bit onto the rim, using care not to pinch the tube. 

I always talc the tubes. It seems to make mounting tires easier - acts as a dry lubricant between the tube, tire and rim.


----------



## JayTee (Feb 3, 2004)

I agree. As much as we all like to discourage using levers for mounting a tire, some times it cannot be helped. And if you can get 80% of it on with your hands, usually you can get the last 20% on by just using the lever in one location and prying (and thus avoid sliding the lever along the rim which is more likely to connect with the tube, etc.)


----------



## dekindy (Jul 7, 2006)

I would not use the tire levers. I did this putting new tires on and punched holes in both tubes and had to take them off and put them back on again.:cryin: :mad2: 

Go around the entire tire and push the other side of the tire that is already installed toward the center as far as you can. This will give you more slack on the side you are still trying to install. You need to take your hands, maybe put some gloves on if you are starting to get blisters, and just keep trying to roll the tire over the rim a little bit at a time. Grab the whole tire and keep rolling until a little more tire rolls over the rim. It may take awhile, but you will get it without punching a hole in the tube and having to do it all again.

After the tire is installed, put enough air into the tube to give it shape inside the tire. Go all the way around both sides and verify the tube is not exposed and pinched between the tire and rim. Finish inflating.

If you do it this way the first time, you will do it right the next time and not punch a hole in the tube. It will get easier with each successive tire you install.:thumbsup: Trust me. If you ride very much you will get lots of practice.


----------



## ericm979 (Jun 26, 2005)

dekindy said:


> I would not use the tire levers. I did this putting new tires on and punched holes in both tubes and had to take them off and put them back on again.


If you're careful that won't happen. Some tires, especially new ones, are just too tight for me to put on with just my thumbs. I use tire irons on those. I haven't pinched a tube in a very long time.


----------



## chromese5 (Jun 16, 2006)

I put it on this morning and it was a pain. I left them on for an hour with the bead exposed to try and stretch it out. Along with the tire levers and some more soapy water it went in a lot easier.Will the tires also stretch with a lot of use? i know that my old tires were very easy to put on.

But again, thanks for all of your guy's advice.


----------



## Argentius (Aug 26, 2004)

Tires will stretch a little bit from the shape of the wheel they are on, especially folding-bead tires.

The infamous combo that has thankfully now been fixed was 2005-and-prior Campagnolo Eurus-type wheels and Michelin tires. That took thumbs of iron, soapy water, and lots of swearing to get on the first time.

Everyone worried, then, about what to do to CHANGE a flatted one of those. But, thankfully, it actually wasn't so bad once the tire and rim had gotten to know each other a bit better.


----------



## Mr. Versatile (Nov 24, 2005)

I's also suggest adding a Crank Bros. tool to your box. I think it might be called a speed lever or a zip tool...I really can't remember. You can get them at Nashbar/Performance or at your LBS. It's a black plastic telescoping tire tool. One end slides onto the wheel axle & the other hooks onto the rim & acts just like a tire changing tool at a car repair shop. They're pretty inexpensive & work very well. I had an old pair of Campy rims & usually ride Michelin tires. It was the only way I could get the tires on. I give it 5 ***** out of *****.


----------



## samh (May 5, 2004)

Also, when you install the tire, do you start or finish at the stem?


----------



## Argentius (Aug 26, 2004)

Start. Definitely start.

If you finish at the stem you can end up with the bead not seating properly and having to either deflate and restart or not noticing and getting a blowout in 1 minute...


----------



## California L33 (Jan 20, 2006)

samh said:


> Also, when you install the tire, do you start or finish at the stem?


Yes


----------



## lawrence (May 17, 2005)

Tires with wire beads generally are looser than folding tires. New tires are always harder to put on than tires that have been on the rims for a while. They stretch when they've been on for a while. Soma tires levers are great, they have steel under the plastic coating. I've also used a round plastic stick called QuikStik. Sometimes I've had to use two of them.

My last tires I had problems putting them on also. I put the wheels and tires on top of a piece of plywood on saw horses. I put as much of the tire on the wheel and then I used a C clamp to hold down the tire at the point where it was on and off the wheel. I then went to work on the end where it was on and off the wheel and worked towards the C clamp until it finally popped on. It was frustrating and tough but it can be done. No different between 23 or 25 as that's the width.


----------



## Cory (Jan 29, 2004)

*If you succeed, you can have my Vittorias...*

Three or four years ago I bought a set of Vittorias for five bucks at an LBS going-out-of-business sale. It was a steal, and I just hung them in the garage for a few months until I needed them.
When I finally got them down, I tried for two hours to mount them, and they WOULD NOT go. I've probably changed a couple of hundred tires (been riding as an adult for more than 30 years, and presently own six bikes), and I've never seen anything like it. I broke five plastic levers, I talcumed everything, positioned the opposing bead in the deep part of the rim, wiped everything with soapy water (old car-tire trick from the manual-change days) and finally went to a grocery store bike section for some steel levers, figuring they wouldn't break. I bent one of those, just folded it over. The tires are still hanging in the garage, never been on the ground. 
Yes, they're the right size. Everybody thinks I'm trying to mount 700c tires on 27-inch wheels, but uh-uh.


----------



## Pablo (Jul 7, 2004)

I use plastic tires levers when I need to, i.e. when the tires are new. Do not use metal ones, they'll cause you problems.


----------



## wim (Feb 28, 2005)

What's always helped me is to start stretching the tire from the very start.

With my palms, I push the tire into the rim and slowly walk it around stretching it as much as I can. The sketch is an exaggerated visualization of the stretching process—it's similar to a boat pushing a bow wave ahead of itself. 

About half-way around, I squat down, jam the wheel into my abdomen and finish the job with the wheel horizontal.

If you let go before you're done, you have to start over from the top.


----------



## Strider (Aug 3, 2004)

*Tires...........*

Two things...........

1...Use a dab of Vaseline on the last bit of tire you are pushing onto the rim. I keep a small tube in my handlebar bag for just this purpose.

2...TIRE BEAD JACK. This might be what 'Mr. Versatile' is talking about. Mine was ten dollars from the lbs and makes a world of difference and only weighs about three or four ounces.


----------



## Mr. Versatile (Nov 24, 2005)

Strider said:


> Two things...........
> 
> 1...Use a dab of Vaseline on the last bit of tire you are pushing onto the rim. I keep a small tube in my handlebar bag for just this purpose.
> 
> 2...TIRE BEAD JACK. This might be what 'Mr. Versatile' is talking about. Mine was ten dollars from the lbs and makes a world of difference and only weighs about three or four ounces.


I like the vaseline idea. The tire bead jack isn't what I was talking about. This is it:http://www.crankbrothers.com/speedlever.php


----------



## Strider (Aug 3, 2004)

Mr. Versatile,

Not sure how the tool you show works, but the tire bead jack is great. The picture is at the bottom of this link.

http://www.koolstop.com/Accessories/index.php


----------



## Mr. Versatile (Nov 24, 2005)

The crank Bros tool works just like the tools used for changing a car tire. The tool telescopes open. There's a forked tip at one end that slides onto the axle. The other end slides over the lip of the rim. When installing a tire, the end on the axle serves only to stabilize the tool. The end on the rim is pulled toward you, forcing the tire on the rim. If you've ever seen a car tire being changed, the "tire buster", will put the wheel on a horizontal stand & bolt the wheel down with a quick-release nut. When the air is let out of the tire, a steel bar, kind of like a pry bar, is fastened to the hub of the tire changing machine. Compressed air is used to rotate the pry bar in a circle, forcing the tire on or off the rim. The Crank Bros. tool works exactly like the pry bar attatchment.


----------



## eyebob (Feb 3, 2004)

*Go to koolstop and get their tire jack*

You'll never go back. 

For the record, I'll contradict Pablo, I use aluminum tire levers all the time. They are great and don't snap like plastic ones.

The tire jack and/or aluminum tire levers (when I need them)

BT


----------



## Oxtox (Aug 16, 2006)

*Vaseline*

contains petroleum distillates and is not good for rubber. I'd use talc, corn starch, or something water soluble like KY Jelly as a lubricant to mount a tire.

I had a friend use Vaseline on his car tires for that new shiny look (pre-Armor All days)...the sidewalls degraded pretty quickly and showed a lot of cracking and checking.


----------



## blittle (Feb 23, 2005)

*C'mon guys*

I worked at a shop for a couple of years and the first thing I learned to do was to put a very small amount of air in the tube to keep it from pinching when using a tire lever. 

Open the valve (assuming presta valve) and blow directly into it (don't use the pump if possible), quickly tighten the valve so that the air doesn't escape, insert the tube between the tire and the rim and then start working the tire bead around. If you cannot get the whole tire on then you can use the tire lever(s) to mount the remaining tire but because the tube is somewhat inflated you will not pinch the tube. The added air will not be enough to make the process more difficult but will be enough to avoid the dreaded tube pinch. 

Lastly, if you are using a pump for the initial steps, then I would suggest letting a little air out prior to mounting the tire.


----------



## cptab (Sep 12, 2002)

*Crank Bros. speed lever*

Two thumbs up for that nifty gadget!


----------



## Soonerinfrisco (May 30, 2006)

Dont feel too bad. Those Conti Ultrasports are really tough to get on. I used a bit of sudsy water to get mine on. I just hope I never flat on a group ride and have to change the tire. That could be tense. My next treads are gonna be folders.


----------



## tgiboney (Jan 11, 2006)

Cory

Which Vittorias and are you serious about getting rid of them. IM me with the info and where to send payment and shipping to.


----------



## Mr. Versatile (Nov 24, 2005)

IME folding tires fit lots tighter than wire beads.


----------



## Soonerinfrisco (May 30, 2006)

Mr. Versatile said:


> IME folding tires fit lots tighter than wire beads.



Well now that is good info!! I was under the impression that folders were a bit easier to change. I have only owned wire beads and with the Contis I actually sometimes wonder if I might knock the wheel out of true trying to horse them on. Maybe I need that gadget myself.


----------



## WingNut (Oct 12, 2005)

chromese5 said:


> I can not get them on.


I have had exactly the same problem, the truth is some tire / tube combinations are just plain evil; Despite what some say, i think the stretch you'll generate on yr tyres will be negligible, so they'll always be nasty to mount.
I believe that if yr tubes are that tight now they'll be murder to get off when you get a flat. Murphy's law dictates it'll be a raining day when you're running late for a family engagement and just squeezed in a training ride (that's what happened to me).
Solutions - 
1.sell the tyres on e\bay and get another brand (Continentals are notorously tight - Bontragers I have found not so bad)
2. My best solution was a tool called the easyhand about $8 delivered to the US. It's very light so you can take it with you when you ride.
www.thebiketool.com
(Watchers - please don't flame me, I have no involvement, shares or $ in this company, just found a cheap product that works)
3. In the end I bought new wheels and have never had the problem since.


----------



## Sub (Feb 13, 2004)

just use a lever, there is no reason not to. Just make sure you don't get the tube between the tool and the rim. It isn't rocket science.


----------



## roadnewguy (Feb 11, 2006)

ericm979 said:


> I find that wire bead tires are usually easier to mount than folding tires.



you are kidding right?


----------



## Mark McM (Jun 18, 2005)

roadnewguy said:


> you are kidding right?


Nope, no kidding. Wire beads are less prone to stretching, so wire beads are less likely to be (intentionally) made undersized. That often makes them easier to install.


----------



## roadnewguy (Feb 11, 2006)

Mark McM said:


> Nope, no kidding. Wire beads are less prone to stretching, so wire beads are less likely to be (intentionally) made undersized. That often makes them easier to install.


well, I had to ask after almost breaking a finger, poking an eye out and chaffing my palms trying to remove the set of old wire bead tires my bike came with...


----------



## TrailMix (Nov 16, 2005)

You might be trying to do the impossible. Check the ISO/ETRTO sizes on the rim and tire. The tire is 622. I *think* the MA4 rim is 630. That means the rim is bigger than the tire was designed to accomodate by 8mm


----------

