# Clement MXP thoughts?



## Matthewp (Oct 14, 2012)

Hi

I'm moving to tubulars this year and I'm trying to decide on my general use (non-mud) tires. It seems like Challange Grifo are a good default choice but I'd like to hear if anyone has any experience with the Clement MXP tire. It got a nice write up in Velonews. 

BTW I'm not willing to seal side walls so Dugast and FMB tires are out. I don't know much about the other brands.

Thanks,
Matthew


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## chrisgardner73 (Sep 17, 2009)

I've been running the MXP clincher for the past few weeks, and I like it so far.


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## krisdrum (Oct 29, 2007)

Matthewp said:


> BTW I'm not willing to seal side walls so Dugast and FMB tires are out. I don't know much about the other brands.
> 
> Thanks,
> Matthew


If I'm not mistaken, Challenge should be sealed as well. So you may want to take them off your list.


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## the mayor (Jul 8, 2004)

krisdrum said:


> If I'm not mistaken, Challenge should be sealed as well. So you may want to take them off your list.


You are mistaken.


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## the mayor (Jul 8, 2004)

I have a set of MXP tubies that I have a few rides on. It does roll a little better than the PDX and corners a little better on hard surfaces ( real hard pack and asphalt....the PDX squirms a little)
And all those "littles" I said above....are very little.
Both are very good tires that are pretty tough.
If I knew I'd be riding in 90% dry....I'd go with the MXP
The Tufo Flexus Primus is another option...and a little cheaper
The Challenge line are also good....maybe a little less tough than the above.
The Dugast and FMB tires are great....but require a LOT of care and it is tough to get more than a season out of either


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## JohnStonebarger (Jan 22, 2004)

120 tpi? "Tufo's proven casing with no tube?" 

It's hard for me to believe that rolls nicer than 300 tpi with a latex tube. Really?


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## the mayor (Jul 8, 2004)

JohnStonebarger said:


> 120 tpi? "Tufo's proven casing with no tube?"
> 
> It's hard for me to believe that rolls nicer than 300 tpi with a latex tube. Really?


The difference between the 2 on dirt is minimal. Maybe noticeable back to back...but minimal.
But this is the interwebz.....


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## JohnStonebarger (Jan 22, 2004)

the mayor said:


> The difference between the 2 on dirt is minimal. Maybe noticeable back to back...but minimal.
> But this is the interwebz.....


So rolling resistance doesn't count on rough surfaces? I don't really care whether I notice it: I don't want it to slow me down.
And geez, even with traction I would expect a softer, more supple tire to excel. Wouldn't you?


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## krisdrum (Oct 29, 2007)

the mayor said:


> You are mistaken.


Thanks. Only had exposure to used Grifos up close and most of them had some sort of flaking/worn sidewall coating, so just assumed they needed to be sealed. I guess not new, but you would want to seal them if you saw such wear and tear. Right? Or is re-sealing them a lost cause?


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## the mayor (Jul 8, 2004)

JohnStonebarger said:


> So rolling resistance doesn't count on rough surfaces? I don't really care whether I notice it: I don't want it to slow me down.
> And geez, even with traction I would expect a softer, more supple tire to excel. Wouldn't you?


A less supple tire might slow you down.
"Might" being the operative word.

As I said....the Dugast and FMB feel great. But will they really make you go faster? I would bet a butt load of money that any one of us would finish in the same place with just about any tire that is set at the right pressure. 

And the right pressure is more important than the thread count or a cool name on the sidewall.

Add in the lack of longevity and needed care of the high priced tires....which was the OP's concern....

Like I said....I have run just about everything over the last few decades. And I'm going with the Clements because they work and last. I do have 1 set of Dugast Rhinos from last year mounted that will probably see use in 1 mud race this year....and I expect them to fail and be tossed. I know that the base tape will probably start to peel and the rear casing will rupture....I've had it happen more than a few times.


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## the mayor (Jul 8, 2004)

krisdrum said:


> Thanks. Only had exposure to used Grifos up close and most of them had some sort of flaking/worn sidewall coating, so just assumed they needed to be sealed. I guess not new, but you would want to seal them if you saw such wear and tear. Right? Or is re-sealing them a lost cause?


Resealing them may make them last a little longer....
But I find once water has gotten into the carcass....the threads start to rot.
And the AquaSeal does work well....if you don't mind the price and having to breath that stuff ( frikkin brutal)
I use Jevlot Tire Life....it's cheeper and doesn't try to knock you out....


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## the mayor (Jul 8, 2004)

To add to my above post.
Tire pressure....
I rum a PDX with a few psi less than I would with a DuGast Rhino.
The PDX has a stiffer casing...so it needs a little less air.
The DuGast has a softer casing...and would fold over at the lower pressure.

Add to the argument: THAT GUY who blows by with $10 tires set at 60 psi makes me SO glad I dropped all that coin on the fancy handmade 90231 tpi tires.....


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## atpjunkie (Mar 23, 2002)

the mayor said:


> You are mistaken.


as are many models of FMB


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## bikerector (Oct 31, 2012)

I use vittoria XG's which have a similar chevron style tread pattern and I like them. I've wanted to try clements but I bought new vittoria's in clearance from last season so I already had them. Haven't heard anything bad about them, but a lot of guys around here seem to run tufo's. I think they're easier to work wit hand the low TPI seems to hold up better to sidewall cuts and such. 

For me Grip trumps rolling resistance for tire's needs, I expect the ground has more effect on slowing me down than my tires.


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## Matthewp (Oct 14, 2012)

OP here, thanks for all the information. I had not considered the Tufo Flexus Primus. I can find a lot of love for them online. That looks like it might be the tire for me, as my criteria are in orde: maintenance, performance, and then cost. 

"the major" why did you go with the MXP's over the Primus?

Thanks


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## ZoomBoy (Jan 28, 2004)

atpjunkie said:


> as are many models of FMB


Rumor is that Dugast is doing the same now too....I don't use auqa seal on my Dugasts I use McNett's tent-sure since it's much easier to work with and probably safer as well. 

I'm still a fan of the tried and true Grifo/Typhoon tread for all rounders.


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## the mayor (Jul 8, 2004)

Matthewp said:


> "the major" why did you go with the MXP's over the Primus?
> 
> Thanks


I originally bought the PDXs because I knew my Rhinos had a limited life and I want mud tires.
I was able to get a smoking deal on the MXPs at the same time.....
And I think the black rubber will stay softer longer....where the grey Tufos tend to harden up after a few season. Time will tell.
As far as traction....I'd say it's about a tie.
There are some good deals on Tufos at biketiresdirect


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## VeldrijdenAddict (Apr 29, 2008)

I'm a Tufo guy and use the Flexus Primus 32s as my main race tires. I use the Tufo Cubus as my muds and they are a very good mud tire. No need for sidewall care on either. The Cubus will be going into season 3 this year. Hasn't been too muddy in New England the past couple of seasons - they might have 10 races in them. I've got some older pairs of the previous Flexus version on wheels I use for training and they too have lasted years with no care other than cleaning.


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## OnTheRivet (Sep 3, 2004)

Here is my experience so far. I raced on Tufo Flexus Primus for two seasons, as durable as heck and seemed like alright tires. End of the second season got a chance ride a friends Challenge Grifos, world of difference to the Tufo's, don't know if it's the stiff casing or hard rubber but the TUFO's well, sucked compared to the Challenges. Last year glued up some Challenge Fango's, this is simply the best all around tire on the market. Supposed to be a mud tire but fast as heck on hardpack, corners great with the soft natural rubber. I was so impressed I'm gluing up a second set this year.


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## RRRoubaix (Aug 27, 2008)

OnTheRivet said:


> Here is my experience so far. I raced on Tufo Flexus Primus for two seasons, as durable as heck and seemed like alright tires. End of the second season got a chance ride a friends Challenge Grifos, world of difference to the Tufo's, don't know if it's the stiff casing or hard rubber but the TUFO's well, sucked compared to the Challenges. Last year glued up some Challenge Fango's, this is simply the best all around tire on the market. Supposed to be a mud tire but fast as heck on hardpack, corners great with the soft natural rubber. I was so impressed I'm gluing up a second set this year.


That's why I never tried them- all the ones I've seen my friends run never seem to wear down. NEVER. I mean, durable is nice, but I have to believe anything that tough is not the best racing tire.

My wife's been racing on Clement PDX's for the last two years and done better than I have, esp in the dry. I've been running Challenge Limus for mud, all kinds of stuff for the dry- thinking about trying the MXP.


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## JohnStonebarger (Jan 22, 2004)

OnTheRivet said:


> ...glued up some Challenge Fango's, this is simply the best all around tire on the market.


Pretty much mirrors my experience, but with clinchers. I now race on Challenge whatever -- everything but the file tread so far, and I have a pair of those in waiting (this is Iowa, ice will come).

I'm embarrassed to sound like such a shill, but Challenge seems to be the only company even trying to make a fast, sticky racing clincher that rivals the nicer tubulars. The results are some soft and admittedly delicate tires.

I put the Mudds on my townie.


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## VeldrijdenAddict (Apr 29, 2008)

The Clements are made by Tufo, correct? Different tread patterns obviously but I'm pretty sure the casing and sidewalls are exactly the same as the Tufo Primus line.


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## bikerector (Oct 31, 2012)

VeldrijdenAddict said:


> The Clements are made by Tufo, correct? Different tread patterns obviously but I'm pretty sure the casing and sidewalls are exactly the same as the Tufo Primus line.


I think it's more of a made to order type thing, same thing with Giant factories making other brand's bikes. I think the same goes for vittoria for road tubulars and several other brands. I think tufo chooses to make their tires durable because then they're the budget friendly tubular (considering how long they last) and they're supposed convenient to mount up, especially if you're using their tape.


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## VeldrijdenAddict (Apr 29, 2008)

bikerector said:


> I think it's more of a made to order type thing, same thing with Giant factories making other brand's bikes. I think the same goes for vittoria for road tubulars and several other brands. I think tufo chooses to make their tires durable because then they're the budget friendly tubular (considering how long they last) and they're supposed convenient to mount up, especially if you're using their tape.


I poked around the Clement site. No specifics on thread count, layers, construction, etc. My guess is that is by design. Clement designs the tread pattern. Probably covers some, if not all the cost of making the molds, then those treads are made with stock Tufo rubber and put on stock Tufo Primus casings.

Also, the Primus line are not beefy tires. The sidewalls are fairly thin and supple. I don't think they are too much stronger than sidewalls of other tires, they just don't fall prey to the water damage that others do. Overall the tire is pretty light. Tread wear is consistent with other tires I've used. The Pro line is the one that is heavy and will last forever. 

To the original poster. Go with the MXP. Its a good tire. You'll race. You'll have fun. The tires will be fine.


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## pretender (Sep 18, 2007)

Here is a video review of the PDX tubulars, which addresses their construction.





If the embedding doesn't work: Clement PDX Tubular Cyclocross Tire with Pete Webber - YouTube


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## VeldrijdenAddict (Apr 29, 2008)

Not really any mention of construction specifics in the video. Just the very basic description of a Tufo-like tire - well made, tubeless with rubberized sides. The weight of 350g is the same weight as the Flexus Primus. The box is even the same as a Tufo.

If I have a point, which is questionable, I'd just say that one can't be a fan of the Clements, and not also be a fan of Tufo.


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## pmt (Aug 4, 2009)

I'm going to run two sets of wheels with Clement LAS on one and Challenge Fangos on the other; I'll preride the LAS set, and if it's cool, keep them on. If I'm sliding all over, I'll swap out to the Fangos (or front Fango only). A lot of the Mid-Atlantic races are mostly grass criterium, so that should work out OK.


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## VeldrijdenAddict (Apr 29, 2008)

JohnStonebarger said:


> 120 tpi? "Tufo's proven casing with no tube?"
> 
> It's hard for me to believe that rolls nicer than 300 tpi with a latex tube. Really?


Not that I think it matters all that much. But the Primus line has 210 TPI sidewall and 315 under tread.


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## Matthewp (Oct 14, 2012)

OP here, I just pulled the trigger on the MXPs after humming and hawing over the Tufo's. I'll check back in after I've had them on for a couple of weeks and can really compare them to my mud tire, a Limus.

Thanks


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## davemess (Dec 26, 2008)

My teammate just bought a pair of the MXPs and said he likes them a lot. Said they were similar to the grifo's he had last year, but liked the way they were built (like the tuff tire he said they don't have much of an inner tube). We both have liked the Cubus as well (he the Flexus model, and me the regular because I'm cheap and want something that will last). We race in the PNW, so see a lot of mud, and the Cubus is a great mud tire (as well as all around), as it sheds really well, and surprisingly doesn't have much rolling resistance due to the checkerboard pattern of the tread. 

I'm not as finicky about tires. More training can usually make up for a slightly off tire choice.


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## atpjunkie (Mar 23, 2002)

I've been a long supporter of Tufos especially as a training tire. The problem with them (and Clements and Specialized, all of which are made by Tufo) is that while they are durable and affordable, should something happen to them early in their life they are toast. You can't repair them, can't put a new tube in them.


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## bikerector (Oct 31, 2012)

atpjunkie said:


> I've been a long supporter of Tufos especially as a training tire. The problem with them (and Clements and Specialized, all of which are made by Tufo) is that while they are durable and affordable, should something happen to them early in their life they are toast. You can't repair them, can't put a new tube in them.


Isn't there something specifically talked about this on clements website, because they're tubless they'll seal up with sealant better than a tubed tubular? Tufo also has sealant for theirs, seems like an option before trashing a tire though I've never had to use sealant, usually the casing rots or cuts (older gray vittorias with cotton casing) out before I put a flat in my tires. I assume it rots but I suppose it could just be getting torn up from roots in my local single track.


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## ZoomBoy (Jan 28, 2004)

bikerector said:


> Isn't there something specifically talked about this on clements website, because they're tubless they'll seal up with sealant better than a tubed tubular? Tufo also has sealant for theirs, seems like an option before trashing a tire though I've never had to use sealant, usually the casing rots or cuts (older gray vittorias with cotton casing) out before I put a flat in my tires. I assume it rots but I suppose it could just be getting torn up from roots in my local single track.


I train and trail ride on Tufo T34s. Tufo makes a sealant but if you really trash a sidewall you are SOL. 

Jeff


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