# Does it really matter 40mm or 50mm depth?



## dcktr (Oct 21, 2006)

Rare posting, but I guess I want to spend some money.
I am an average rider, 170lbs, centuries and weekend group rides, about 300-400 miles per month in riding season. Reasonable amount of hills. 
I have a Strong Ti bike
Currently I have Ligero 30mm depth alum wheels, very light w/ white hubs. they are still great wheels but did bend up rear rim after a major pothole. Still ridable though.
I Have not spent any money lately so I thought I would "upgrade" and spend +/- $1K
Looking at Carbon Clincher. 
Can't really go 2.2K for Edge by Ligero or Zen.
So I am looking at Williams, Soul, Boyd, Psimet.
Soul has the C4.0 and C5.0, the others have 50mm
I am increasing rim depth by 10 or 20mm.
Appreciable difference in crosswinds?, aero? stiffness? other? (Fred Factor?)

Thanks in advance for your opinions.


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## wankski (Jul 24, 2005)

all of the wheels you listed @ 1k have inferior hubs with smaller bearings than the awesome US made WI H2 hubs... Usually they also use cheap taiwanese sourced dpokes... Ligero likely only uses sapim or WS spokes too... the best of quality... and his builds from what i hear are simply second to none...

10mm more depth can easily be wiped away and then some by cheap hubs.... 

the quality is just not there...

since u mentioned it - i'm a say yes to fred factor if you ain't racing deep carbon hoops..

not that you should care, but what you have is greater quality then what you are prepared to spend.

also the whole carbon thing makes significantly less sense when you move to clincher rather than tubbie.... they are usually much heavier (esp ones with an alu brake track) this makes sense as.... they are best used as race wheels...


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## cdhbrad (Feb 18, 2003)

I would send the rear wheel back to Ligero for a rebuild. I have the same wheels, by another builder, on my Strong steel frame and they do fine in every ride I am on. All the carbon clinchers mentioned by the OP will also likely be heavier than the current wheels as well as having lesser hubs and spokes.


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## dcktr (Oct 21, 2006)

Thanks for the input, great advice. I emailed Troy and will see what he says.


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## jmess (Aug 24, 2006)

I think you would notice a difference with taller wheels that weighed in the ballpark to what you have now. I felt the difference between 34s and 46s. Getting something new and different for your bike can increase your fun and ride motivation factors.


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## iamddn (Feb 28, 2010)

What is your weight and goals? I spent a lot of time testing wheels, and I found that I like the feel of carbon rims (a mooted, comfortable feel when riding), but noticed that you don't get that feel with a smaller rim (under 50mm) or with an carbon cover on an aluminum rim. A taller rim also feels fast when you are speed for extended periods, like on century.


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## dcktr (Oct 21, 2006)

*re: New wheels*

I am at 170lbs, 
One of the reasons to look for new wheels, is I am "rewarding" my self for dropping 15 lbs over the last 6 months, and keeping it off. (silly, I know)
Most of my weekend rides are about 40 miles each day, but every other weekend we try to get in a 70 miles ride. Weekday rides, if done, about 20. 
Most the guys I ride with are younger and faster. I really do not think that switching wheels will suddenly have Astana calling me. But this is a sport and a hobby, otherwise I would not be on these forums. I like having nice things that add to my perceived value and keep it fresh. I always enjoy a more comfortable ride. Getting a ti bike "custom fitted" made an incredible difference.
I have only been riding 4 years, so having you guys take the time to respond is great. I do not always have a personal frame of reference, so your opinions do matter to me.
Thanks


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## KMan (Feb 3, 2004)

*thoughts*

I had been riding 50mm Token Carbon Clincher wheels for the past few years. Token came out with a 58mm wheel so I grabbbed a set last summer to try out. The extra few mm was noticible in speed. My average times had increased for the routes I ride. The wheels were much heavier than my prior set because the set Token sent me were built using Pillar Aero spokes which weigh a LOT. I just received my new set from Token. 58mm built with Sapim CX-Ray's - lost over 250 grams in weight. So now I'm running 58mm carbon clinchers with an actual weight of 1485 grams - which is less than my Mavic K SL's. and they are a TON more aero.

So my thought is as long as you can find a set that is not super heavy, the aero benefits will outweigh the increased weight as long as your not doing climbing specific riding.

$.02
Michael


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## cdhbrad (Feb 18, 2003)

I was looking at the 50mm Token Carbon wheels and wonder how they hold up to regular use? They are a little heavier than other complete carbon rims, but a whole lot cheaper. What did your set of 50mm wheels weigh? Have you had any issues with the hubs?
Also, was the 58mm rim a prototype? Just wondering as it is not shown in the 2010 Token catalog or on their site. 
Thanks for the information.


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## KMan (Feb 3, 2004)

*Token*

I have been using some Token T50's for cyclocross for a few years now. Still have yet to need to tru them - so that should be some indicator about how they will hold up. I actually just purchased a 2nd set to use as a 2nd wheelset for cross. These are Tubulars which weigh F602 R782 Total 1384grams (T50's)

The C58's weigh 1485 grams for the set. I no longer own any clincher 50's, but from what I remember the weight on those were around 1550 grams for the set - pretty much the same as the Mavic K SL's I own. 

Not sure on the Token listed weights if those are for builds using the Pillar or Sapim spokes, but I've always ordered all my wheelsets built using Sapim CX-Ray spokes.

The 58's are not what I would call a Prototype as the rime is being used for other mfg builds, but correct it is not losted on Tokens website. They told me it was going to be offered in 2010, but it's not in their 2010 catalog. I think they are doing these more as a special order. The set I just received did not have any Token stickers on the wheels so I think they just order the rims from their supplier and have them built. 

Michael





cdhbrad said:


> I was looking at the 50mm Token Carbon wheels and wonder how they hold up to regular use? They are a little heavier than other complete carbon rims, but a whole lot cheaper. What did your set of 50mm wheels weigh? Have you had any issues with the hubs?
> Also, was the 58mm rim a prototype? Just wondering as it is not shown in the 2010 Token catalog or on their site.
> Thanks for the information.


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## cdhbrad (Feb 18, 2003)

Thanks for the info and quick response. Good to hear about a product from someone other than the Mfg. for a change.


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## cmg (Oct 27, 2004)

contacted one of the builders on the original posters list. asked about a clincher wheelset with WI H2 hubs and sapim spokes. estimated wheelest came in around $1200 and 1660 grams, not to bad. now if my funding allows it is another matter.


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## Nimitz (Jul 8, 2004)

KMan said:


> I had been riding 50mm Token Carbon Clincher wheels for the past few years. Token came out with a 58mm wheel so I grabbbed a set last summer to try out. The extra few mm was noticible in speed. My average times had increased for the routes I ride. The wheels were much heavier than my prior set because the set Token sent me were built using Pillar Aero spokes which weigh a LOT. I just received my new set from Token. 58mm built with Sapim CX-Ray's - lost over 250 grams in weight. So now I'm running 58mm carbon clinchers with an actual weight of 1485 grams - which is less than my Mavic K SL's. and they are a TON more aero.
> 
> So my thought is as long as you can find a set that is not super heavy, the aero benefits will outweigh the increased weight as long as your not doing climbing specific riding.
> 
> ...


does token not build a 58mm rim anymore? I only see C50's @ 1560 a set.

Chad


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## Nimitz (Jul 8, 2004)

how much did the tokens run?


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## KMan (Feb 3, 2004)

*Token*



Nimitz said:


> does token not build a 58mm rim anymore? I only see C50's @ 1560 a set.
> 
> Chad


Token should still have these, just never posted them in their catalog or website. Just send an email to Token and ask them, I'm sure they still have them to sell.

Michael


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