# Finding myself desiring something more unique & interesting; a bike with some soul...



## jtferraro (Jun 28, 2002)

*Finding myself desiring something more unique & interesting; a bike w/some soul!*

I currently own a 2004 Fuji Track. I bought it 2 years ago and primarily chose it b/c I didn't have an old road bike to convert (wished I still had my old Firenze 15-speed, even if the tubeset was low-end steel). I also liked the fact that this bike was 'out of the box' ready to go, inexpensive, steel, and had road bike geometry. Also, unlike other track bikes, it even came with down tube braze-ons for one waterbottle, which I knew would come in handy on long training rides. I had no intention of track racing it, but wanted it for commuting to work, training, and fun. I’ve used it for just that and it's been a great bike - no complaints. The only thing that comes to mind is that I'd occasionally break a rear spoke. After the third, I decided to have my LBS rebuild the wheel - I haven't had a broken spoke since. One of the limitations I found with the bike, however, is that with the tight track frame stay & fork clearance, I couldn't mount full fenders. I made the best of it and mounted SKS Raceblades, which worked pretty well. The widest tire I could run with the Raceblades was 25c’s, although I would have preferred to run 28’s. Anyway, I no longer need to worry about fenders on that bike b/c I’ve since purchased an aluminum cyclocross bike. This will be my new winter bike, as there's plenty of frame stay & fork clearance for full fenders and, at least, 28c tires. This bike also has a chain stay bridge for mounting the fenders 100% correctly. Happy with the SKS’s, I’ve now ordered a set of their silver P45 full fenders that will soon be mounted. To sum it up, my Fuji Track no longer has any real ‘functional’ shortcomings. “OK, so what’s the problem?” you ask? Well, I’m now finding myself desiring something more unique & interesting; a bike with some soul (http://63xc.com/troy/soulfix.htm), rather than an 'out of the box' bike, made in Taiwan or China. I’d prefer to have an American made frameset, and the more local (live in CT), the better. I'm hoping for quality ‘name’ steel - Reynolds, Columbus, True Temper, Dedacciai, or any mix. I'm planning on purchasing just the frameset, then building the bike up part by part. Since I've never done so, I think this will be the best part (well, almost).

After doing some archive research here @RBR, one frame that seems to fit the bill is the Milwaukee Bicycle Company's 'The Orange One', which is build by Waterford. For those of you unfamiliar, here's a link to the bike @Ben's Cycle:
http://www.benscycle.net/store/index.php?main_page=index&cPath=145

Link is to an article written by a local (to Milwaukee) newspaper:
http://www.jsonline.com/bym/news/dec04/288789.asp:

Here's a few links to pics of the bike @fixedgeargallery.com (any of these belong to any of you?):
http://www.fixedgeargallery.com/2005/aug/BenPopper.htm
http://www.fixedgeargallery.com/2005/june/stephanie1_tds.htm
http://www.fixedgeargallery.com/2005/may/CherylUngar.htm
http://www.fixedgeargallery.com/2004/g/jobs.htm
http://www.fixedgeargallery.com/2004/g/schneider.htm

You can also find some close up pics on ebay. Just do a search for "Milwaukee Bicycle".

The frame is made out of True Temper Verus HT tubing. Verus HT appears to be on the lower end of True Temper's steel options with Verus, OX Platinum, and S3 above it. Link:
http://www.truetemper.com/performance_tubing/frame_verusht.html

The fork is a Surly Pacer. Here's the link, just click on 'Pacer':
http://www.surlybikes.com/forks.html
It's a curved, crowned, steel, Taiwanese made fork w/fender eyelets. I don’t particularly care for the fender eyelets, considering I won’t be running fenders and will be aiming for that clean & simple ‘track’ look. For that reason I’d consider having them removed, but will probably leave them...just in case, especially considering the bike is powder painted, so finding the exact color match might be difficult. 

I definitely dig the 'Eddy Orange' color, art deco style decals, and the killer cast pewter head badge (especially since I like my beer)! There's really only one thing I don’t care for. Considering I won't be running a rear brake, I don't have a reason to utilize the two braze-on cable stops on the bottom of the top tube. I’d like to have these removed, as I know I'll never want to mount a rear brake. If, for some reason I decide to, I can always go the Surly Steamroller 'zip tie' route.

I would, again, plan on using this bike for commuting to work, training, running errands, and for having fun. Now, the build...I can already see it - blue Chris King headset to match the blue decals, silver Thomson seatpost, black/blue Fizik Airone saddle, & blue Candy SL pedals, all of which I already have. Unlike most of the Milwaukee's you see online, instead of going the black route for parts & components, I'd go silver - Nitto or Cinelli track bars, stem with either track grips or blue tape wrapping the 'drops' only. Silver high-flange track hubs (36-hole?) and silver rims, spokes, & nipples, some kind of track/retro silver crankset. Also, I think I'd go the fixed/fixed route, as opposed to fixed/free, this time around. Yeah, this is fun… =)

I'd love to hear more about this bike - weld & paint quality, how it RIDES, and overall impressions. For any owners out there, please post! Alternatively, can anybody think of any other bikes that would also 'fit the bill' and not cost more than double the price, like the IF's that I covet? I'd be able to get a small discount on an IF, as my LBS is a dealer, and I know the IF would be an incredible machine…but, for this application, I'm not sure I can justify the price difference. Another option I heard about was the DiBernardi Thron track frameset, which is a lugged Columbus Thron steel frame. Should I assume it's made in Italy? Unfortunately, I heard their paint chips quite easily. Here's the link (just scroll down):
http://www.toeclip.com/show_category.php?category=15

As usual, I look forward to all thoughts/comments/suggestions, etc.


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## fixintogo (Nov 14, 2005)

Come on, a Waterford USA-made frame & fork for $500? You and I both know you're going to get this bike. Post a pic when it comes in.


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## jtferraro (Jun 28, 2002)

*Well...*



fixintogo said:


> Come on, a Waterford USA-made frame & fork for $500? You and I both know you're going to get this bike. Post a pic when it comes in.


Waterford made frame w/Surly (Taiwan made) fork. I'll be sure to post pics if I pull the trigger.

Thanks,


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## fixintogo (Nov 14, 2005)

jtferraro said:


> Waterford made frame w/Surly (Taiwan made) fork. I'll be sure to post pics if I pull the trigger.
> 
> Thanks,



I may just pull that trigger myself


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## jtferraro (Jun 28, 2002)

*Hah...*



fixintogo said:


> I may just pull that trigger myself


Nice! All my talk and pics convince you? What size you ordering? ;-)


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## asterisk (Oct 21, 2003)

You might call up Bens Bike and ask about the fork. Last I heard they were having supply problems with Surly and just started building their own (err.. Waterford) forks to ship with the frame as well. When the frame was coming with a Surly fork the fork was black.


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## haiku d'etat (Apr 28, 2001)

you are evil and must be destroyed.

luckily i have a credit card, and you will LIVE.


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## jtferraro (Jun 28, 2002)

*I did...*



asterisk said:


> You might call up Bens Bike and ask about the fork. Last I heard they were having supply problems with Surly and just started building their own (err.. Waterford) forks to ship with the frame as well. When the frame was coming with a Surly fork the fork was black.


I called them a few days ago and spoke to Russell. He said it's a Surly fork that they paint orange (to match the frame). I wish it was actually made by Waterford, but it doesn't make or break the deal for me.


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## Dave Hickey (Jan 27, 2002)

Great choice...I know exactly what you mean by soul....For some us us, soul is an important consideration when buying a bike/frame.


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## bigrider (Jun 27, 2002)

I saw this frame and had to talk myself out of buying it. If I replace the old italian fixed gear I have right now it would be near the top on my list.

I also love the Fillmore from Lemond but don't know if you can just buy the frame/fork. I think it has a higher end tubeset and sweet long top tube geometry.


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## fixintogo (Nov 14, 2005)

jtferraro said:


> Nice! All my talk and pics convince you? What size you ordering? ;-)



I'm still on the fence. I have a track bike I use on the road, but I'm looking for something with road bike geometry. Also in the running is the Surly Crosscheck, as I'd love to be able to put some fat knobbies on it and take the fixed experience offroad. The On-One Pompino also offers better-than-average tire clearance, so I've got some decisions to make. The Milwaukee's Waterford pedigree is pretty persuasive, however, and all three are very attractively priced. That's the beauty of these simple bikes: you can get something plenty nice for under a grand.


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## jtferraro (Jun 28, 2002)

*True...*



fixintogo said:


> Also in the running is the Surly Crosscheck, as I'd love to be able to put some fat knobbies on it and take the fixed experience offroad. The Milwaukee's Waterford pedigree is pretty persuasive, however... That's the beauty of these simple bikes: you can get something plenty nice for under a grand.


Yeah, I'd like to give SS MTB a try someday too. As for fixed mtb, I don't know about that!! I guess it depends on what you mean by "offroad". Yeah, it sure is nice to be able to buy one of these 'plenty nice' bikes for under $1K.


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## FatTireFred (Jan 31, 2005)

didn't bother to read all that... but, Fisher Triton?


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## jtferraro (Jun 28, 2002)

*Fillmore...*



bigrider said:


> I also love the Fillmore from Lemond but don't know if you can just buy the frame/fork. I think it has a higher end tubeset and sweet long top tube geometry.


Yeah, I didn't see any indication on Lemond's website that you can buy just the frameset. Actually, I don't care for the fork since it's carbon. I'd rather go steel for this application. You are right re: it has a higher end tubset - True Temper OX Platinum. I wonder where this frame is made.


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## jtferraro (Jun 28, 2002)

*Can't blame you...*



FatTireFred said:


> didn't bother to read all that... but, Fisher Triton?


Yeah, can't blame you for not reading my LONG post. I certainly get carried away at times! Re: the Fisher Triton...not sure what kind of steel it's made of, or where it's made. I also don't need the carbon fork.


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## Fixed (May 12, 2005)

*soul*



Dave Hickey said:


> Great choice...I know exactly what you mean by soul....For some us us, soul is an important consideration when buying a bike/frame.


I like to think I instilled the soul into mine -- breathed life into it. Bought a Bianchi Pista, one of the cheap black jobs, several years ago. Over time, I repainted it celeste myself, applied new decals, put on a carbon fork painted celeste, changed out ever single part on the thing with top of the line Campy; carefully added RivNuts in the frame for water bottle mounts; built tubular wheels myself with superlight Araya rims and revolution spokes; then changed and changed things until it fits me perfectly -- in the process I've ridden it in everything from 10 mile time trials to the Climb to Kaiser and mountainous double centuries. I think it has soul now. http://www.midcalracing.com/fixed/fixed.htm

Maybe they aren't born with soul, but they can acquire it over time.


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## jtferraro (Jun 28, 2002)

*Holy cow...uhh, YEAH, you've instilled soul alright!*



Fixed said:


> I like to think I instilled the soul into mine -- breathed life into it. Bought a Bianchi Pista, one of the cheap black jobs, several years ago. Over time, I repainted it celeste myself, applied new decals, put on a carbon fork painted celeste, changed out ever single part on the thing with top of the line Campy; carefully added RivNuts in the frame for water bottle mounts; built tubular wheels myself with superlight Araya rims and revolution spokes; then changed and changed things until it fits me perfectly -- in the process I've ridden it in everything from 10 mile time trials to the Climb to Kaiser and mountainous double centuries. I think it has soul now. http://www.midcalracing.com/fixed/fixed.htm
> 
> Maybe they aren't born with soul, but they can acquire it over time.


No doubt your bike has some soul now! Wow. I remember another RBR'er, Doug, who also repained his Pista celeste and did some similar upgrades. You're not him, with a new screen name, are you? At any rate, NICE BIKE!


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## asterisk (Oct 21, 2003)

I think Doug is right... the more time you spend with a bike, either on it or building it up, the more soul it gets. My 30 year old Nishiki didn't seem to have much soul but after 5 years of replacing cheap fixed parts it has some soul... and after building up my track bike piece by piece I feel it has a soul... as much as a nameless bike can have 

Thanks for settin' me straight on the fork... I gotta check my sources.


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## cadence90 (Sep 12, 2004)

Fixed said:


> I like to think I instilled the soul into mine -- breathed life into it. Bought a Bianchi Pista, one of the cheap black jobs, several years ago. Over time, I repainted it celeste myself, applied new decals, put on a carbon fork painted celeste, changed out ever single part on the thing with top of the line Campy; carefully added RivNuts in the frame for water bottle mounts; built tubular wheels myself with superlight Araya rims and revolution spokes; then changed and changed things until it fits me perfectly -- in the process I've ridden it in everything from 10 mile time trials to the Climb to Kaiser and mountainous double centuries. I think it has soul now. http://www.midcalracing.com/fixed/fixed.htm
> 
> Maybe they aren't born with soul, but they can acquire it over time.


Doug every time I see your bike I love it.
And of course, with where you've taken it/it's taken you, of course it has soul.

What do you mean "repainted it celeste myself"? 
You mean you had a painter do it? Or that you actually did it? 
How (because that doesn't look like a spray can job) did you do it?


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## Fixed (May 12, 2005)

*myself*



cadence90 said:


> Doug every time I see your bike I love it.
> And of course, with where you've taken it/it's taken you, of course it has soul.
> 
> What do you mean "repainted it celeste myself"?
> ...


Thanks. Did it myself with the spray cans of celeste paint you can get from Bianchi USA. They supply clear coat, too. Good stuff. Best part is that I always have touch-up that matches perfectly. Lots of sanding, priming, sanding, painting, sanding, painting, etc.


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## ravenmore (Aug 12, 2004)

I know its a much better bike, but it looks like my orange Moto Messenger. It'll look a LOT like it when I get my new wheels that I just ordered from Ben's Bikes (IRO hubs, Deep V rims). I'm in the middle of putting bullhorn handlebars on mine....


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## djg (Nov 27, 2001)

jtferraro said:


> Yeah, I didn't see any indication on Lemond's website that you can buy just the frameset. Actually, I don't care for the fork since it's carbon. I'd rather go steel for this application. You are right re: it has a higher end tubset - True Temper OX Platinum. I wonder where this frame is made.


I have last year's Fillmore and the frame is made in Wisconsin (I didn't watch it being made, but that's what LeMond told me). It's a really nice riding bike, IMO.

As for the Triton question somebody asked: I sent an e-mail to Fisher, which is part of the Trek corporate umbrella. They told me that the Triton frame is basically a rebadged 2006 Fillmore.


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## jtferraro (Jun 28, 2002)

*That head tube bage is all about you, huh?*



J's Haiku Shop said:


> you are evil and must be destroyed.
> 
> luckily i have a credit card, and you will LIVE.


If I remember correctly, you also love you beer...no?


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## TurboTurtle (Feb 4, 2004)

For me a bike with soul starts with a frame I love. Then I add my own personal build - usually not mainstream - doing as much of it as I can. Finally comes the rides which set the soul forever.

BTW, Waterford would be glad to build a fork for your Milwaukee. Just give them a call and your CC#.

TF


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## Dave Hickey (Jan 27, 2002)

TurboTurtle said:


> For me a bike with soul starts with a frame I love. Then I add my own personal build - usually not mainstream - doing as much of it as I can. Finally comes the rides which set the soul forever.
> 
> BTW, Waterford would be glad to build a fork for your Milwaukee. Just give them a call and your CC#.
> 
> TF


I totally agree.. I had a Nashbar touring frame that I built and rode for a while. It was a perfectly acceptable bike. It was comfortable and rode well but I hated it. It had no soul..I agree with Doug too. A frame doesn't have to be high-dollar European to have soul. Soul can be created.....non-cycling people think you're crazy if you try to explain that a bicycle has soul..


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## Thommy (Sep 23, 2003)

*Don't rule out the fixed Soma's*



fixintogo said:


> I'm still on the fence. I have a track bike I use on the road, but I'm looking for something with road bike geometry. Also in the running is the Surly Crosscheck, as I'd love to be able to put some fat knobbies on it and take the fixed experience offroad. The On-One Pompino also offers better-than-average tire clearance, so I've got some decisions to make. The Milwaukee's Waterford pedigree is pretty persuasive, however, and all three are very attractively priced. That's the beauty of these simple bikes: you can get something plenty nice for under a grand.


Several of my freinds have them in the great red color and they are sweet! But, just a few nights ago I saw the new Bianchi fixed in a kind of gloss pea-green color (better than it sounds) that has me itchin" for another bike.


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## DWI (Jan 14, 2005)

*Gotta love Milwaukee..*

I purchased an "Orange One" frame from Russell at Ben's and can report that the frame is a steal.The quality is first rate, it has style and "soul". I used my IF cross fork instead of the Surly, I only use a front brake, so there was no issue with the lack of canti studs on the rear stays. This bike was build for my oldest son for his freshman year at college.It just happened that the colors (orange and blue) were also his college's colors. It actually got to the point that I was trying to convince my son that the frame was too small for him and that I would have to keep it for myself .


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## jtferraro (Jun 28, 2002)

*Good news...*



DWI said:


> I purchased an "Orange One" frame from Russell at Ben's and can report that the frame is a steal.The quality is first rate, it has style and "soul". I used my IF cross fork instead of the Surly, I only use a front brake, so there was no issue with the lack of canti studs on the rear stays. This bike was build for my oldest son for his freshman year at college.It just happened that the colors (orange and blue) were also his college's colors. It actually got to the point that I was trying to convince my son that the frame was too small for him and that I would have to keep it for myself .


Thanks for posting the pic and sharing your comments. Lemme guess, your son goes to Syracuse?


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## jtferraro (Jun 28, 2002)

*Duh...*



jtferraro said:


> Thanks for posting the pic and sharing your comments. Lemme guess, your son goes to Syracuse?


I just realized the TT reads "GETTYSBURG".


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## ravenmore (Aug 12, 2004)

how do you like the brooks saddle? which one(model) is that anyway....


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## Mootsie (Feb 4, 2004)

Jeff sent me the following email and I seem to get a bunch of questions about the Milwaukee since I posted it on Fixedgeargallery.com a few months back. I thought maybe some other folks would want to know the same details, so here we go. A copy of his email follows:

_If you don't mind, I have a few questions re: your Milwaukee...

I recently put a post out on roadbikereview.com, on their 'fixed gear' forum, which included a link to your nice ride:

http://forums.roadbikereview.com/showthread.php?t=45968

You mention you have a custom Waterford fork. Rather than go with the stock, Surly Pacer fork (which is now pained orange to match the frame), I'd rather also go with a Waterford. Can you tell me how much extra that cost? Did you get both forks or just pay the difference for the Waterford? What kind of steel is the Waterford fork made of and does it have the same rake and 'axle to crown length' as the Pacer? Also, I can't see your top tube cable stop braze-ons. Did you remove them or can I simply not see them in the picture? Since I won't be running a rear brake, like you, I have no need for them and would prefer to get a frame without them.

Anything you can tell me re: your impressions - paint finish, weld quality, and how it rides would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks,

-Jeff
_ 

First off let me say the bike was a gift from my wife so some of the details will be forever unknown.  You can see her fixed gear here:

http://www.fixedgeargallery.com/2005/may/CherylUngar_2.htm

When she bought the bike, Ben's only offered a black Surly fork. I already have a Waterford with a painted fork to match the frame. Knowing how beautiful they look, she knew I would want a matching frame/fork for the Milwaukee as well and asked Ben's if they could coordinate with Waterford to build one to match. My understanding is that after seeing how nice the orange fork looked with the bike, Ben's began to offer the Surly fork in orange as well. The price of this little ungrade is Birthday secret. You'll have to ask my wife. What kind of steel the fork is made from, I can't say. Its a nice fork and is sized for the bike. Its as quick and nimble as the one on my old Surly Steamroller with a little better build finish. The Milwaukee comes standard with the cable guides. They run on the non drive side of the bike. I would prefer to not have them as well since I don't run a back brake, but I hardly notice them and they don't distract from the clean lines of the bike. Overall the Milwaukee is a great value. Its a better bike than any of the other prefab (Bianchi, Fuji, etc) fixed gears out there. Let me put it this way: its one of my favorite bikes and I own Moots, Waterfords and Surlys. I don't think you can go wrong. The only word of caution is get the right size. Waterford measures to the top of the seat collar. I have a 59cm Milwaukee and all my other bikes are 57-58's. Bens can send you the frame measurement specs so that you can dial in your fit. Have fun.


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## jtferraro (Jun 28, 2002)

*Just off the phone w/Russell again...*

Just spoke to Russell @Ben's Cycle again...Original forks were black Surly Pacer forks. Then they ran low, and substituted the black Surly's for IRD forks (still black, I think). Now they are back to using Surly Pacer forks, but having them powder coated 'Eddy Orange' to match the frames. I inquired about the custom Waterford fork and it's still another option, for an upcharge of at least $200 if you substitute if for the Pacer, probably $250 in addition to the Surly Pacer. Neither of these prices are yet quoted since Russell would need to talk to Waterford first. The Waterford fork would more than likely be Reynolds 531. Options...gotta love em'...


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## jtferraro (Jun 28, 2002)

*More about True Temper...*

found this link, which describes the differences if True Temper's offerings:

http://www.henryjames.com/tubing.html

Verus HT is 'heat treated', while Verus is not. Good stuff.


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## Anonymous (Oct 22, 2005)

You rat bastards!  
Now I gotta build up my hardtail into a fixie! That'll make 5 fixies. Dammit! You bastards make me do weird things! Sheldon has turned me into a phreak (not Van Eck), and I've never met him. You all have infected me, with the fixie bug!






Thanks.


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## cantdog (Apr 29, 2005)

Pardon my ignorance...but I dont see how getting rid of your Fuji and buying another new fixed gear gives you any more soul.

Wouldnt soul be bringing life into an old left out to die bicycle? Or building one from scratch? 

Seems like the whole fixed gear thing has reached such crazed hipster status that all the soul has been sucked out.


Or just buy a Soulcraft or Soul Cycles.


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## fixintogo (Nov 14, 2005)

cantdog said:


> Seems like the whole fixed gear thing has reached such crazed hipster status that all the soul has been sucked out.



Hmm... I see this sentiment a lot lately: now that X has gotten popular, it's "soulless" or "not cool" or "too hipster." X might be a bike, a band, a clothing choice, or a vocation. 
I don't think the soul got sucked out of mountain biking when it got popular, or that the soul of road racing was lost when people rediscovered it. Has fixed gear riding lost its soul just because lots of people dig it? Of course not. The "soul" of anything dwells within the rider and the experience itself. 

If every man, woman, and child got a fixie tomorrow, my bike and my rides would still be soul-stirring to me. Those who equate popularity with a dearth of soul seem to be into their chosen niche only as some sort of fashion statement. I've encountered these people before; once their favorite band gets a record deal, they abandon them; once their wool jersey is sold at Performance, they dump it. It must take a lot of effort to stay one step ahead of the masses. The irony, of course, is that they themselves are consumed with their own image of hipsterism. Me, I just ride the bike I love, and if the rest of the world decides they love it too, I couldn't possibly care less.


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## cantdog (Apr 29, 2005)

What I'm saying is soul isnt something thats purchased. Thats why I'm questioning buying a new bike and saying it has more soul than another one. The Taiwanese dont have soul? I'd argue it has more soul. Those children need to build bikes to put food on their families tables! Richard Sach's wife probably makes a lot of dough so he can build custom bikes and not have to worry about providing for the family.  

It makes no difference to me what other people do, but everytime the "soul" discussion comes up I always laugh a bit, because it comes up with everything that was a fringe activity and found mainstream, like you said Fixin'. Doesnt mean I'll stop doing it, but I wont trade in my trek or whatnot for something a little more obscure just because everyone started owning treks. 


I guess I'm trying to say is question what gives something soul. For me, its not buying an american steel bike just because its 1)not made in taiwan 2)not aluminum and 3)more expensive. 

The hipsters really have driven up the price of old bikes on craigslist though. And whats with spoke cards? Come on.


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## fixintogo (Nov 14, 2005)

cantdog said:


> What I'm saying is soul isnt something thats purchased.


I totally agree



cantdog said:


> I wont trade in my trek or whatnot for something a little more obscure just because everyone started owning treks.


I'm old enough to remember when Treks were considered obscure, back when Italian and English bikes were the norm. Good point.




cantdog said:


> I guess I'm trying to say is question what gives something soul.  For me, its not buying an american steel bike just because its 1)not made in taiwan 2)not aluminum and 3)more expensive.


Again, I agree. I just bought a Taiwanese steel bike that absolutely brims with soul.



cantdog said:


> And whats with spoke cards? Come on.


spoke cards = white belt = trucker cap = poseur = soulless

Your post says much that is true. I guess I'd only add that none of the "soul" issue really has anything to do with whether or not a bike has a freewheel or not.


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## cantdog (Apr 29, 2005)

God, it really pisses me off when I go into a bike shop and I see these latte sipping fools talking about how anyone who has a bike with a free/fixed hub isnt a true fixer, or someone with brake bosses, or someone who doesnt run 3X1 gearing. I hope they scald their tongues, and then spill their drinks on their crotch.


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## jtferraro (Jun 28, 2002)

no message


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## jtferraro (Jun 28, 2002)

*Update...*

My guess is that Russell no longer works for Ben's Cycle. I emailed Jim, who finally returned my email but dodged the Russell question. Anyway, Jim informed me I can order the frame without the top tube cable guides for an additional $20 = $520. The shipping used to be $40 but Ben's recently upped it to $50. I'd imagine since I first expressed interest in this frameset MONTHS ago, they'd honor the original $40 shipping charge, brining the new total to $560. If I wanted to substitute the Surly Pacer fork for a custom Waterford, that would be another $200, bringing the total to $760. $760 for a Waterford made frameset isn't bad. I'm not sure if that $200 upcharge for the custom Waterford fork would include the flat crown 'Henry James' model, but that's the one I'm most interested in. MB1 (or anybody else w/Waterford fork(s), if you're reading this, can you tell me if your Waterford forks utilize a Henry James crown? If so, care to post any pics? 

My latest interest, however = for $425, via my LBS, I can get a DeBernardi Thron track frameset. Lugged (rather than TIG'd) Columbus steel, made in Italy. =) I'm seeing it built up with it's share of Miche Primato Pista track components. There are some really nice looking ones @fixedgeargallery.com. Yeah, I know this bike has track geometry but for simply biking to work and using it around town, that'll work. I also know DeBernardi's paint jobs leave a lot to be desired - guess I'll have to be careful. Once it chips significantly I can always strip it down and have it custom painted (or attempt it myself), which would be really cool.


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## michaeln (Mar 9, 2006)

I had started posting the sad saga of my Milwaukee purchase here, but then changed my mind. At this point I would rather not blast Ben's in public. If you want the details, PM me your email address and I will send it to you.

For this forum though, I will just say this:

I bought one. I love the bike. Would I do it again, dealing with Ben's?

No.


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## michaeln (Mar 9, 2006)

deleted by michaeln


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## jp_nyc (May 1, 2005)

Does anyone know how hard it is to remove the decals? Are they under clearcoat?


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## michaeln (Mar 9, 2006)

jp_nyc said:


> Does anyone know how hard it is to remove the decals? Are they under clearcoat?


On the Milwaukee? Easy.

They aren't even decals. They are self-adhesive stickers. I just used a heat gun and warmed them up (a hair dryer would do just as well, not much heat is needed), then just kind of roll them off with your fingers.


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## jp_nyc (May 1, 2005)

That's good to know. Thanks.


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## michaeln (Mar 9, 2006)

Pics of my Milwaukee with the stickers stripped off are at http://velospace.org/node/237


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