# Need sprinter advice pls



## leon1 (Feb 7, 2012)

I been doing weight training for the past 2 months now to improve my legs and wattage. 

My stats. 
weight are the same at 185 no improvement there @ 6'2" height ( I just lost some small amount of fats)
watts i _used _ to peak at average of around 900watts, now with an additional 45-50watts during interval training. 
I'm a Cat 3 racer here at midwest USA 
usually commute for 300miles to school weekly (60 miles a day for 5 days). 

Problem.
recently I've join some local group ride and we've done some interval sprinting yesterday (all out) at zone 5. Problem is my rear tire keeps slipping or lost traction for a few milliseconds when i rock N roll my bike from side to side. I never had this problem before. Its like sprinting in a smooth pavement with fine sand on it, thats how i felt. 

Back tire pressure is at 130psi, i love high pressure tire and again i never had this problem before. I even reverted back to stock barely used *heavy clincher wheels and tires* at 120 psi and got the same problem:mad2:. This only happened when i sprint out of the saddle. 

I been electronically fitted to my bike by a professional, so i don't think poor fitting is a problem. I dont think to much toque is the problem either because I've smash a 14% grade hill @ 39front 28 rear with no problem (out of the saddle and rock N rolling it too). maybe I'm using poor technique? stumping the pedals and things like that? 

The only change I've done to my bike was the grip tape and tires before this problem happened....I cant revert to my *OLD tubular *tire because its gonna cost me $50 for my LBS to remove, clean, and install it again. 

some guy suggested to use a fine sand paper to take off a small amount of rubber from the tire. I mean wtf rly ? 

I Need help on this pleas 

note: pls pay attention to the red text, thank you


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## Wookiebiker (Sep 5, 2005)

It sounds like you need to alter your technique...not your bike. I'm about 10 pound heavier than you and put out around 1600 watts max (1000 for 30 seconds) and have never run into this problem regardless of bike set up.

The rear tire losing traction during a sprint usually means the rider is leaning too far forward over the bars, thus putting little weight on the rear wheel which can cause loss of traction and or bouncing. Long stems or bars with a lot of reach can cause this as well since they move the rider forward/beyond the headtube, as can a bike that's too small for the rider.

Try moving back a little when you get out of the saddle and sprint.


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## wim (Feb 28, 2005)

Agree with the sugestion that your technique is at fault. As said, you're probably too far forward. I also have the impression that you're moving your bike from side-to-side too much and probably too frantically and uncontrolled. There's no need for this "rock 'n roll" stuff in a sprint. It looks impressive, but does nothing for forward motion. Also check and see if you're pulling up on the pedals too hard. It helps to do that in a sprint ("drive the knees into the bars"), but you may be overdoing it. 

Last suggestion: try a slightly lower tire pressure. I know you like the feel of high pressures, but they may be counterproductive. A rock-hard tire can't roll over a pavement regularity, but bounces over it and briefly loses contact with the ground. That not only diminishes control, but robs you of speed as well.


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## leon1 (Feb 7, 2012)

Wookiebiker said:


> It sounds like you need to alter your technique...not your bike. I'm about 10 pound heavier than you and put out around 1600 watts max (1000 for 30 seconds) and have never run into this problem regardless of bike set up.
> 
> The rear tire losing traction during a sprint usually means the rider is leaning too far forward over the bars, thus putting little weight on the rear wheel which can cause loss of traction and or bouncing. Long stems or bars with a lot of reach can cause this as well since they move the rider forward/beyond the headtube, as can a bike that's too small for the rider.
> 
> ...


I rode a 56cm bike, and it fits me well in terms of aggressive position on a saddle. I'll try that not leaning too far technique.:thumbsup: 
Also mate, what length is your stem, and what is your Height? 
mine has 42cm bar and 130mm stem -6 degree no spacers ( yeah the bar is small but again it fits me well) I maybe will change the stem to a shorter one and move my saddle back a little.



wim said:


> Agree with the sugestion that your technique is at fault. As said, you're probably too far forward. I also have the impression that you're moving your bike from side-to-side too much and probably too frantically and uncontrolled. There's no need for this "rock 'n roll" stuff in a sprint. It looks impressive, but does nothing for forward motion. Also check and see if you're pulling up on the pedals too hard. It helps to do that in a sprint ("drive the knees into the bars"), but you may be overdoing it.
> 
> Last suggestion: try a slightly lower tire pressure. I know you like the feel of high pressures, but they may be counterproductive. A rock-hard tire can't roll over a pavement regularity, but bounces over it and briefly loses contact with the ground. That not only diminishes control, but robs you of speed as well.


OK thx about "Also check and see if you're pulling up on the pedals too hard. It helps to do that in a sprint ("drive the knees into the bars"), but you may be overdoing it".
i'll check that. I get that (rock n roll motion) naturally. I think it’s around 10-13 degrees of yaw from side to side. What I meant was the bike naturally will yaw from the right if I push down my left pedal. It hard to keep it strait and not rocking from side to side with a lot of power output. 


I don’t think tire pressure makes any difference. I rode my old 120 psi clincher wheels + tire, and it felt the same with my 130 psi set. Below 120psi is like riding with a flat tire for me  

I'm hoping to improve my wattage alittle without this problem. TY you 2, it never cross my mind about leaning too far when sprinting.


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## wim (Feb 28, 2005)

leon1 said:


> I think it’s around 10-13 degrees of yaw from side to side.


Right, that certainly wouldn't be excessive thrashing about. And I agree, it's not easy to keep the bike perfectly vertical when putting a lot of force (not power) on the pedal. As to somwhat lower tire pressure: give it a try. Why slow yourself down with those rock-hard tires? I like the feel of hard tires too, but I'll not blow them up to the point where they would rob me of speed.


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## Local Hero (Jul 8, 2010)

Do you have any pictures of you sprinting, maybe towards the finish in one of your races?


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## Local Hero (Jul 8, 2010)

Wookiebiker said:


> I put out around 1600 watts max


You and Cavendish have equal power!

“You'd be surprised at my watts,” Cavendish says. “Most people who say that their maximum is 1600 watts won't put out 1600. My maximum is 1580, and that is a lot."


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## Wookiebiker (Sep 5, 2005)

Local Hero said:


> You and Cavendish have equal power!
> 
> “You'd be surprised at my watts,” Cavendish says. “Most people who say that their maximum is 1600 watts won't put out 1600. My maximum is 1580, and that is a lot."


And Cav is about 50 pounds lighter than I am...makes a pretty huge difference when accelerating :thumbsup:


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## Wookiebiker (Sep 5, 2005)

leon1 said:


> Also mate, what length is your stem, and what is your Height?


I'm 5'11" tall and ride a 56cm CAAD 10 with a 110mm stem (-17) and have zero spacers (and removed the 25mm top cap and replaced it with a top cap from slam my stem).

So my position is very aggressive, but I have a shorter stem by 2cm compared to you. I also use 46cm Pro Vibe 7 bars.


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## leon1 (Feb 7, 2012)

Yeah i fixed the problem, by not leaning too far forward @130psi too. I just need to get used to it. sometimes the tip of the saddle are rubbing my butt hole during the down stroke. anyways I need to move the saddle back a little then it be fine. thanks guys for the help, I really appreciate it .


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## JWALK (Apr 14, 2011)

Isn't a 56cm too small for a 6'2" rider?


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## rockdude (Apr 3, 2008)

JWALK said:


> Isn't a 56cm too small for a 6'2" rider?


As a general rule yes...

You will be faster with bigger tires and less pressure plus your ride will be sooo much smoother. There is a reason why dragsters have huge soft tires on the back...


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## wesb321 (Oct 1, 2011)

I am 5' 11", 188lbs and on a 56cm. The same thing happens to me when I get sloppy or just forget to not cradle too much to the front on a sprint. My favorite sprint is in the drops with my butt off the seat, it's the body position every time. Experiment with your sprint postures a little and see what helps, it is just like aggressive out of the saddle climbing on a wet road.


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## earlfoss (Aug 1, 2010)

In a sprint the mind clears of all thoughts but beating your opponent's heads open with a pipe. Get p***ed off and don't let anyone beat you to the line. It takes 100% commitment to your effort which can be hard to do mentally sometimes.


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## leon1 (Feb 7, 2012)

rockdude said:


> As a general rule yes...
> 
> You will be faster with bigger tires and less pressure plus your ride will be sooo much smoother. There is a reason why dragsters have huge soft tires on the back...



Sir i dont want to be disrespectful, but comparing dragsters cars to cyclist are way too different :yikes: 

I been a track sprinter back in highschool where we ride 650c's & 700c's both range from X 19-21 at high pressure 120psi and up. And trust me 700x20 or 23 has plenty of grip at 130psi on the road assuming they are quality tires. 

again as pointed by others, its more about position position and more positions to make the tire stick on the ground.

about the 56cm frame, it fitz me well :yesnod: with the seatpost raise to the max and longer stem. bigger frame made me feel like I'm sitting way back in the saddle and in an upright position which i dont like. just to let you know, I been racing for years on both UCI & none UCI supervisions, I'm just saying, 56cm frame has never phail me in terms of comfort and speed.


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## rockdude (Apr 3, 2008)

leon1 said:


> Sir i dont want to be disrespectful, but comparing dragsters cars to cyclist are way too different :yikes:
> 
> I been a track sprinter back in highschool where we ride 650c's & 700c's both range from X 19-21 at high pressure 120psi and up. And trust me 700x20 or 23 has plenty of grip at 130psi on the road assuming they are quality tires.
> 
> ...



I agree position is the first issue to address but wider tires are more areo have less rolling resistance and the more rubber on the ground means a person is less likely to skip a tire. There is a wealth of research and testing that has come out in the last 7 years or so that supports if you want to be fast on the road a wider tire is a better option. Hey, I was a tire skipper and can testisfy that when I through down big power numbers, I can keep the tire on the ground a lot better with 25c or 28c tires with lower pressure than a 20c with 130psi. With all this said, your right get your position set and then worry about maxumizing speed with a better tire selection.


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