# What's the deal with blinking front lights?



## pmf (Feb 23, 2004)

I was riding home last night and must have passed a dozen people with their front lights set to blinking. Its seriously annoying to look at. How is it better than a constant beam? I don't get it. It would drive me bonkers to ride 16 miles in the dark with my light set on blink mode.


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## MerlinAma (Oct 11, 2005)

Good question. They perceive that they are more noticable?
However I've heard that it's more difficult to judge the distance to a blinking light than a steady light. Have not done research on that.

EDIT:
Just noticed you said FRONT light.
Ugh. I'm surprised you can even set a front light to blinking.


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## majura (Apr 21, 2007)

To get attention from drivers?

I understand what you mean if that blinking light is the _only_ source of light though (maybe some people are riding so fast it's like watching film at 25fps?).

Merlin- you're right that it's harder for a driver to judge the distance between him/her and a cyclist with flashing light. 

I either have 2 lights, one to light my way the other flashing to get attention or one on constant.


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## pmf (Feb 23, 2004)

I'm riding on the Custis and W&OD bike paths in the DC area. We're not sharing the road with cars. The worst was down by the Potomac where its fairly dark.


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## Bertrand (Feb 1, 2005)

More noticeable. Identifies the light as bike. Batteries last longer.


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## old_fuji (Mar 16, 2009)

I've got a set of Knog lights, and I normally have the front set to blink. I'm not using it to see at night, I'm using it to be seen by other cars. If I wanted an actual headlight, I woulda dropped some coin on a decent, bright light.


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## JCavilia (Sep 12, 2005)

On a bike path, I agree with you. On the street, where the important thing is to be noticed by cars, a bright blinker gets the attention, and I think people have begun to associate it with bikes. I use a MagicShine headlight, which has a very fast "seizure mode" flicker. So fast it doesn't appear to go off between pulses, but only vary in brightness. It's very attention-getting, while also lighting the road more than adequately. I'm careful to keep it pointed down at the road so as not to blind oncoming traffic.

I think with an object moving at bike speed, and a rapid flash cycle that has no noticeable period of darkness between flashes, there is not the same problem with judging distance and speed.


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## nismo73 (Jul 29, 2009)

Bertrand said:


> Batteries last longer.


Is that true or was that myth busted?


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## mohair_chair (Oct 3, 2002)

pmf said:


> I was riding home last night and must have passed a dozen people with their front lights set to blinking. Its seriously annoying to look at. How is it better than a constant beam? I don't get it. It would drive me bonkers to ride 16 miles in the dark with my light set on blink mode.


The more annoying I am to look at, the more aware you are that I am there. And that's the reason.


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## SleeveleSS (Jun 3, 2007)

nismo73 said:


> Is that true or was that myth busted?


It is definitely true for any LED light at least. I have a torch with a strobe, and even at that high cyclic rate, the light will last longer. With LED's it is a pretty straightforward "How much time does the light stay on?" equation.


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## PlatyPius (Feb 1, 2009)

Blinky front lights are an annoyance and a pox upon the earth. They should be banished.


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## PdxMark (Feb 3, 2004)

mohair_chair said:


> The more annoying I am to look at, the more aware you are that I am there. And that's the reason.


I think that's the common rationale, and I think it makes sense as a first-order consideration, particluarly with a weak front light. But I think that that other factors work against the efficacay of a flashing front light. 

People use a flash mode to convince themselves that an otherwise pathetically weak front light will make them visible to car drivers. (Of course, for the front light, we mostly should be concerned about drivers who are turning into one's direction of travel or across it.) In this case a flash mode is thought to compensate for an otherwise inadequate light, meaning that one is relying on an inadequate light. This is a bad thing about flashing front lights.

Flashing of an adequate light probably is more eye-catching than a steady mode light, if a driver looks long enough to see a few light flashes. A quick glimpse timed with the off-mode of the light would be a bad thing. Also, there are studies that seem to show that depth perception is dificult with flashing lights. It's nice to be noticed, but also nice to have a driver judg well where you are and how fast you're moving. I think an adequately -bright steady front light gives the better mix of being noticed and allowing drivers to properly judge where I am. Finally, an adequately-bright flashing front light on a dark stretch of road where you actually need the light is a psychic nuisance.

The one thing flashing is good for is extending battery life... but with a generator system that's not an issue either.


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## wooglin (Feb 22, 2002)

Strobes suck. Go with the mirror ball. Personally I'm all about the black light.


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## dysfunction (Apr 2, 2010)

PdxMark said:


> People use a flash mode to convince themselves that an otherwise pathetically weak front light will make them visible to car drivers. r.



Sure works in the daytime (anecdotal evidence only), even with my 19lux headlamp... which is also more than bright enough for use on the road... somewhat questionable as anything other than a helmet based lamp on the trail though IMO.


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## PlatyPius (Feb 1, 2009)

Flashy lights are like giant potholes. The more you see it, the more you drive (ride) right toward it. A steady beam allows a driver to see you, acknowledge your existence to himself, and then effectively ignore you. A flashing light - especially the super-annoying ones - draw the wrong kind of attention to you. They cause the driver to focus on you even though he doesn't want to. Just like staring at a pothole will cause you to ride into it, the flashy light makes the driver's brain decide that it should steer the car right toward the object it wants to avoid.

I know that I have caught myself driving toward cyclists with flashing lights. I've also crossed the centerline and headed toward motorcycles that have 3 high-beam headlights (Harley's with full dress). It's partly because the lights blind me (both super-bright headlights and and the fast flashers) and partly the freaky brain thing.


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## seeborough (Feb 3, 2004)

PlatyPius said:


> Flashy lights are like giant potholes. The more you see it, the more you drive (ride) right toward it. A steady beam allows a driver to see you, acknowledge your existence to himself, and then effectively ignore you. A flashing light - especially the super-annoying ones - draw the wrong kind of attention to you. They cause the driver to focus on you even though he doesn't want to. Just like staring at a pothole will cause you to ride into it, the flashy light makes the driver's brain decide that it should steer the car right toward the object it wants to avoid.
> 
> I know that I have caught myself driving toward cyclists with flashing lights. I've also crossed the centerline and headed toward motorcycles that have 3 high-beam headlights (Harley's with full dress). It's partly because the lights blind me (both super-bright headlights and and the fast flashers) and partly the freaky brain thing.


After your first comment in this thread I thought you were joking. Now that I am pretty sure you are not, I must say that this is the biggest pile of rubbish I have read in a fair while. My favorite: _
"...the flashy light makes the driver's brain decide that it should steer the car right toward the object it wants to avoid." _ 

Oh my.


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## PlatyPius (Feb 1, 2009)

seeborough said:


> After your first comment in this thread I thought you were joking. Now that I am pretty sure you are not, I must say that this is the biggest pile of rubbish I have read in a fair while. My favorite: _
> "...the flashy light makes the driver's brain decide that it should steer the car right toward the object it wants to avoid." _
> 
> Oh my.


Why do drivers slam into cop cars with flashing lights? It's enough of a problem that a law was made here that drivers must move into the other lane when passing a parked cop car/ambulance. The reason is that drivers unconsciously drift toward a flashing light.

It's called "The Moth Effect".



> Some (e. g., Younger, 1997) believe that the moth-effect causes road accidents. In one common scenario, a driver inexplicably steers off the road and collides with an emergency vehicle parked on the shoulder. Presumably, the fascination/moth-effect caused the driver to steer toward the brightly flashing waning lights. Moth-effect advocates have usually supported this belief with anecdotal accident reports supplemented by evidence (Taylor & Sucov, 1974; Murdoch & Caughey, 2004) showing that humans innately orient toward light Despite these arguments and the reports of airplane pilots, many (e. g., Summala, Leino, & Vierimaa, 1981; Agent & Pigman, 1990), are skeptical and argue that no empirical support exists. Wells (2004) summarized the view of many by saying, "There are no known studies that have not been disproven that substantiate the actual existence of this effect in real world driving." However, several recent experimental studies have convincingly demonstrated the functional equivalent of a moth-effect.


Articles of interest:

http://policedriving.com/article145.htm

http://www.roadrules.ca/content/roadside-danger-and-moth-effect

http://www.cvcbike.org/?page_id=1292


Not rubbish.


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## PlatyPius (Feb 1, 2009)

*crickets*


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## pmf (Feb 23, 2004)

SleeveleSS said:


> It is definitely true for any LED light at least. I have a torch with a strobe, and even at that high cyclic rate, the light will last longer. With LED's it is a pretty straightforward "How much time does the light stay on?" equation.


Why is that even an issue? Back in the dark ages when I first started commuting in the dark, I had a lead acid battery that must have weighed 3 lbs and two ill-fitting torch lights that put out about 200 lumins. The system had a run time of maybe 75 minutes. These days with LED lights and LI batteries, the run time is several hours at the highest setting. Christ, just use your charger a couple times a week.


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## PlatyPius (Feb 1, 2009)

pmf said:


> Why is that even an issue? Back in the dark ages when I first started commuting in the dark, I had a lead acid battery that must have weighed 3 lbs and two ill-fitting torch lights that put out about 200 lumins. The system had a run time of maybe 75 minutes. These days with LED lights and LI batteries, the run time is several hours at the highest setting. Christ, just use your charger a couple times a week.


Was the commute uphill both ways? In the snow? With no tires?


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## pmf (Feb 23, 2004)

PlatyPius said:


> Was the commute uphill both ways? In the snow? With no tires?


No, I had balloon tires pumped up to 30 lbs on my Huffy. 

And there was always a head wind in every direction. 

And we liked it that way!


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## Fixed (May 12, 2005)

*not me*

To me, a blinking front light sends the message "I'm a slow moving bike," and cars are more likely to cut in front of you. I prefer to look like a fast moving vehicle, front the front, so they might at least think about hesitating. From the back, though, I look like a firetruck with multiple super bright Dinotte flashing red lights. Gets drivers' attention a mile before they get to me. So, you want to look fast from the front, slow from the back.

Also, flashing lights don't light up the road very well, and it would drive me crazy after a while.


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## BianchiJoe (Jul 22, 2005)

I use my front blinky at dusk, when a solid beam isn't necessary to light my way and riders are most invisible to motorists. Sorry if the "powers that be" don't approve.


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## emiliobadillio (Sep 26, 2010)

I've noticed cars give more attention to a flashing light when they are about to pull out of a side street into my traffic lane rather than when I have my light a solid beam. This is the difference between sharing the road and being cut off and slamming on my brakes. These are just from my experiences anyhow.


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## JCavilia (Sep 12, 2005)

emiliobadillio said:


> I've noticed cars give more attention to a flashing light when they are about to pull out of a side street into my traffic lane rather than when I have my light a solid beam. This is the difference between sharing the road and being cut off and slamming on my brakes. These are just from my experiences anyhow.


I've had the same experience. For wintertime dark commuting, I've added another white blinky, on the front of my helmet. I can point it at a driver approaching from the side, and I've seen cars hit the brakes when I get their attention that way.


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## fast ferd (Jan 30, 2009)

*no argument here*



BianchiJoe said:


> I use my front blinky at dusk, when a solid beam isn't necessary to light my way and riders are most invisible to motorists. Sorry if the "powers that be" don't approve.


Ringing endorsement from me. That applies to dim morning light, as well. 

I like my odds far better with flashing or steady light. IMHO, this junk about target fixation and inability to judge a cyclist's speed and etc is plain nonsense.


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## seacoaster (May 9, 2010)

A blinky will stand out from other white lights, so you won’t get mistaken for a driveway light, etc. If you’ve ever seen two bikes together, one blinky and one solid, the blinky is the one that will get your attention first.


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## thumbprinter (Jun 8, 2009)

when i'm driving i always notice and identify the blinking front light much more quickly and easily than a steady one. more than once my eyes have been fooled by a steady light at a side intersection and thought it was a house porch light or something.
i ride w/blinking front light day and night.... i usually have a solid beam on my helmet to augment.


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## oops (Nov 6, 2005)

pmf said:


> I was riding home last night and must have passed a dozen people with their front lights set to blinking.... *Its seriously annoying to look at*...... How is it better than a constant beam? I don't get it. It would drive me bonkers to ride 16 miles in the dark with my light set on blink mode.


But it is noticeable, I have a small blinky one on my handlebar, I don't use it for its light, its to help get me noticed. I use a big HID on my helmet to see what is ahead of me and where I am going.


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## makeitso (Sep 20, 2008)

PlatyPius said:


> Why do drivers slam into cop cars with flashing lights? It's enough of a problem that a law was made here that drivers must move into the other lane when passing a parked cop car/ambulance. The reason is that drivers unconsciously drift toward a flashing light.
> 
> It's called "The Moth Effect".


I didn't bother reading the articles as they most likely relate to bright flashing lights and NOT sub 100 lumen lights. The effect you refer to is for bright attention getting lights which in many cited cases indicate an "event." ie police car indicating something worth looking at. 

Blinking lights imo are needed on slow moving objects in the low light / dusk times. Why? Because bike lights are incredibly weak when compared to everything else on the road. With a constant light source that's in the <100 lumen (most blinky type bike lights) you're little more than what seems to be a reflection in the 1-2 seconds people glance over or review their mirrors as you move along slowly in relation to the vehicle traffic. A blinking light source is, as you cited, an attention getter and you can think of it as a slow strobe light. The stop motion between blinks generally will be enough of a gap that you don't come off as a reflection and forgotten. 

Now that being said, as a rider relying solely upon a blinking light as your only illumination isn't the greatest. Vehicles will have a harder time gauging their distance from you with a blinking light along with you won't be able to truly see the ground you're riding over. 

Bottom line is that you should run with both if you intend upon being out riding at night. Since you're not trying to see via a blinking light a small .5w LED blinker is plenty to catch attention and won't create this moth effect. Then use the brighter light to ride by and for drivers to gauge their distances from you.


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## PlatyPius (Feb 1, 2009)

makeitso said:


> I didn't bother reading the articles as they most likely relate to bright flashing lights and NOT sub 100 lumen lights. The effect you refer to is for bright attention getting lights which in many cited cases indicate an "event." ie police car indicating something worth looking at.
> 
> Blinking lights imo are needed on slow moving objects in the low light / dusk times. Why? Because bike lights are incredibly weak when compared to everything else on the road. With a constant light source that's in the <100 lumen (most blinky type bike lights) you're little more than what seems to be a reflection in the 1-2 seconds people glance over or review their mirrors as you move along slowly in relation to the vehicle traffic. A blinking light source is, as you cited, an attention getter and you can think of it as a slow strobe light. The stop motion between blinks generally will be enough of a gap that you don't come off as a reflection and forgotten.
> 
> ...


I agree with this.

Although, most of the lights that I sell that flash (for the front) are > 100 lumens. I should probably stock some cheaper, dimmer lights for exclusive use as blinkies.


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## saf-t (Sep 24, 2008)

I run a front blinky as a "see me" light at dusk, in the rain, and any other time I think cars are less likely to notice me. I add a serious headlight at night, but keep the flasher going


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## seeborough (Feb 3, 2004)

PlatyPius said:


> Why do drivers slam into cop cars with flashing lights? It's enough of a problem that a law was made here that drivers must move into the other lane when passing a parked cop car/ambulance. The reason is that drivers unconsciously drift toward a flashing light.
> 
> It's called "The Moth Effect".
> 
> ...


Thank you for the links. However, after reading I have to stand by my original assessment. While they discuss emergency vehicles, their evidence is a. based on rather limited and personal observations and b. not really applicable to (comparatively low light) bicycles. 

Apples and oranges.


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## seacoaster (May 9, 2010)

PlatyPius said:


> I should probably stock some cheaper, dimmer lights for exclusive use as blinkies.


:thumbsup: ....and encourage their use. A lot of cyclists (and runners) overestimate their visibility, especially in marginal lighting, shadows, etc. I've seen some runners with white blinkies, which makes them MUCH easier to see on the roads. Way better than the reflective clothing they're wearing.

Interestingly, the white headlight blinkies are far more visible than the little red blinkies most cyclists are using, even those with two red blinkies. I haven't seen any red blinkies with a parabolic reflector like the white blinkies.


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## knucklesandwich (Feb 23, 2007)

I run blink on the roads, and switch to the low, solid beam when I get on the MUP.


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## nate (Jun 20, 2004)

seacoaster said:


> :thumbsup: ....and encourage their use. A lot of cyclists (and runners) overestimate their visibility, especially in marginal lighting, shadows, etc. I've seen some runners with white blinkies, which makes them MUCH easier to see on the roads. Way better than the reflective clothing they're wearing.
> 
> Interestingly, the white headlight blinkies are far more visible than the little red blinkies most cyclists are using, even those with two red blinkies. I haven't seen any red blinkies with a parabolic reflector like the white blinkies.


I agree that people underestimate their visibility. I don't care about blink versus constant for lights. I'm just happy when a cyclist or pedestrian has lighting no matter whether it is blinking. One MUT I ride for my commute has pretty thick tree canopy and is darker at dawn and dusk than people seem to realize. I hate all the ninja bikers and runners with dark clothes and no lights or reflectors.


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## Fixed (May 12, 2005)

*attraction?*

I don't buy the attraction to blinking objects theory. My take is that the reasoning goes like this: Drivers are running into vehicles parked on the side of the road. Most of the cars on the side of the road have lights flashing on them. Therefore, the flashing lights caused people to run into the cars. It's a fallacy of mistaking assocation with causation. Sure, most all cars parked on the side of the road have flashing emergency lights or 4 way flashers on, so any time someone isn't paying attention and runs off the road, they hit a car with flashing lights. It's inattention that caused it, not attraction to flashing lights. People are not moths.

Nonetheless, last night going home in the dark I experimented. I run a Dinotte 200L on my helmet, and a 600L on my handlebars. I have always run the 200 in high constant on mode. So, I changed it to flashing mode, where it flashes about twice per second, but remains on in low in between flashes. It was incredible. I could see the light flashing off all sorts of objects well ahead of me, almost obnoxiously so. Think I'm going to do this from now on.


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## JimK2010 (Nov 3, 2010)

I ride in Manhattan at night, both big fast avenues and darker side streets. My lights are for me to be seen by cars only, i do not need them to see where i'm going due to street lights in most areas. My lights (front) are a small blinky on my helmet and a cygolight 250 lumen (bright) blinking on my handlebars. 2 questions:

1. Is it agreed that blinking lights attract more attention from car drivers that steady beam?
2. Is it better to have the main light on your handlebars or helmet?

Thanks -


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## makeitso (Sep 20, 2008)

JimK2010 said:


> 1. Is it agreed that blinking lights attract more attention from car drivers that steady beam?


Yup. It differentiates you from car traffic and usually drivers will give you more space and time because of it in my experience. A solid light only doesn't differentiate you from anything so you get treated like a car ie expected to go faster, pinched as you look like you're trying to pass on the shoulder, etc. 



JimK2010 said:


> 2. Is it better to have the main light on your handlebars or helmet?


Personally I like it on the helmet for road riding more than the bars but it's mainly preference from mtb. Benefits of being on the helmet is lighting up anything you're looking at, be it front center or 90 degrees to your side. The problem with it is you can blind other drivers or people as you light up anything you're looking at. Another side benefit is the light doesn't shake over rough roads. The benefits of the handlebars is having much better depth vision as the light is at a different level than your eyes you can see shadows from your light. It also doesn't blind drivers as you can the light level and forget about it once it's mounted. 

For most road riding either one is fine, but if you're descending a mountain or anything where you really need to see around turns helmet is definitely preferable. Just know the limits of the way you're using and mount appropriately.


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## martinrjensen (Sep 23, 2007)

blinking front light get noticed quicker, no if's and's or buts. The best thing to do is have 2 front lights, one the blinker and the other solid for actual vision. I use the blinker more on bike paths because it is much easier to notice someone coming at you with a blinker. solid lights tend to just blend in.


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## bigbill (Feb 15, 2005)

I use my 1W LED in blink mode for the first four miles through town on my home bound commute. I have several fast downhills through traffic lights with "yield when turning left on green" controls. The blinking light gets the attention of the guy waiting to turn. Continuing to pedal is important too since it shows I have no intention of stopping. The HID goes on after that. The HID is good for three hours and the commute is typically 2:40 of ride time. The LED gives me an extra 20 minutes.


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## Trek2.3 (Sep 13, 2009)

mohair_chair said:


> The more annoying I am to look at, the more aware you are that I am there. And that's the reason.


Ditto!

Although I don't think it would have worked on the drunken cop in Connecticut last week.

I've started using them day and night when on roadways.


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## pedalruns (Dec 18, 2002)

I added a front blinkie (spok) along with my regular brighter steady beam on my commutes and I think it helps.... especially at dusk.


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## JohnnyTooBad (Apr 5, 2004)

It didn't take long at all for the affect of the blinkie (magicshine) to to be very noticeable with the way cars react. Granted, I can't use it full dark because it puts me into seizure mode. But the way drivers react is huge. Let's face it, the only use the light has, as to being seen by cars, is for cars that are turning into or through your lane (headed at you making a left or coming out of a side street from either side). I notice that cars stop well short and wait a lot longer for me to pass than when I was only using a steady light. I think that because the light is so bright and the fact that the driver does have a hard time judging the distance makes a difference. They just wait until you pass and don't try to cut in front of you.

Why cyclists use blinkies on an MUT is beyond me. I also see a lot of people with lights on on the MUT well after sunrise, both blinkie and steady. I don't get it.


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## JimK2010 (Nov 3, 2010)

What's a MUT? sorry for the newb q.


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## PlatyPius (Feb 1, 2009)

JimK2010 said:


> What's a MUT? sorry for the newb q.


Morons Using Trail
Minds Unable to Think

(Multi-Use Trail)


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## Slim Again Soon (Oct 25, 2005)

Blinking front light (and blinking rear, too) is the default for cyclists — it tells drivers what you are.

That's a good thing.

Even when I have a solid headlight, I put a small blinkie on my helmet for that reason.


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## Jesse D Smith (Jun 11, 2005)

PlatyPius said:


> Blinky front lights are an annoyance and a pox upon the earth. They should be banished.


I don't know. They seem to serve the same purpose as Boston Red Sox jerseys. By announcing their annoyance at a distance, you're saved the inconvenience of finding out through closer contact.


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## RagbraiNewB (May 21, 2008)

Slim Again said:


> Blinking front light (and blinking rear, too) is the default for cyclists — it tells drivers what you are.
> 
> That's a good thing.
> 
> Even when I have a solid headlight, I put a small blinkie on my helmet for that reason.


Basically, I think this is right. It's become a bicycle thing, and people are learning it. It does mean that if you're still riding with no lights, god help you, because drivers are really starting to expect the lights and won't look for you without them.


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## Killroy (Feb 9, 2006)

Most low power, inexpensive lights, are clangorously dim compared to other lights on the road that the only way not to get flattened is to set them on blink. These lights (even high end brands) dont help you see much on the road in solid beam mode anyway.


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## SelfPropelledDevo (Aug 12, 2008)

motorcycles often use "modulating lights"


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