# Negativity/Snobery in Cycling World?



## statureman (Apr 20, 2011)

I am new to serious cycling in the last few years. As I research cycling, bikes, LBS and forums I seem to find an undercurrent of negativity or snobbery, especially at my LBS. Yes I am a BIG dude, right around 290 right now. But I get funny looks when I walk into my local shops most of the time. 

What is the deal? I have limited funds and am building my stock out slowly, but it's frustrating when people won't help you or accuse you of being a shill for a company they don't like.

What's the deal? Anyone else experiencing this?


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## Urb (Jul 19, 2010)

I think this is a general life thing and not something that only applies to cycling. Something to keep in mind, there may be a culture at your lbs or cycling region and until you learn to interact with the language and mannerism you maybe not be included in everything. Give it time. People are still people. When they get to know you better and you them I'm sure things will get better.


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## Oxtox (Aug 16, 2006)

try waving more...


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## spade2you (May 12, 2009)

Depends on how sensitive you are. My previous hobby was being a musician, so even the worst "racer snobs" don't seem to compete with your average hipster, one you've probably never heard of. If people were snobs to me at first, I probably didn't notice. 

As long as you go in with the attitude that you're willing to listen and learn, you'll be fine. When you expect people to roll out the red carpet and start out as top dog, probably not the best attitude to start with.


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## statureman (Apr 20, 2011)

It doesn't really bother me, I enjoy the learning process. It is a head-scratcher, but as Urb said, probably just people being people.


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## config (Aug 16, 2002)

That same snobbery almost prevented me from taking up road cycling. I never experienced that when I was mountain biking though. The LBS and other mountain bikers seem to be cool folks.

Fortunately, a job move took me to Italy. There, all the roadies and LBS were down to earth and more than willing to take on a new roadie. Night and day difference than in the U.S. My opinion, the snobbery goes up a level with the category of the bikes they have. It seems the more expensive, the more elitist they become. They associate cost of bike with income. Heck, I've seen several comments on here from people who think the cost of their bike alone commands respect from another since they're on much less worthy bikes.

I don't let it bother me. The bike is simply a tool. What matters is the person on it. Ride on, ride strong!


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## Hank Stamper (Sep 9, 2009)

config said:


> That same snobbery almost prevented me from taking up road cycling. I never experienced that when I was mountain biking though. The LBS and other mountain bikers seem to be cool folks.
> 
> Fortunately, a job move took me to Italy. There, all the roadies and LBS were down to earth and more than willing to take on a new roadie. Night and day difference than in the U.S. *My opinion, the snobbery goes up a level with the category of the bikes they have. It seems the more expensive, the more elitist they become. They associate cost of bike with income. Heck, I've seen several comments on here from people who think the cost of their bike alone commands respect from another since they're on much less worthy bikes.*
> I don't let it bother me. The bike is simply a tool. What matters is the person on it. Ride on, ride strong!


Either that or you have a problem with people who are fortunate and make assumptions by looking at their bike rather than getting to know them and then forming an opinion.
Could you link to a few of these: "several comments on here from people who think the cost of their bike alone commands respect from another since they're on much less worthy bikes"


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## BeginnerCycling (Jun 4, 2011)

While it's true that many things in life are that way, I have to say there is definitely a sizable minority of road cyclists and shop owners/employees that are a bit snooty. Seems to vary between:

1. Dislike for newbies
2. Disdain for budget-conscious people
3. Snide attitude toward Clydesdales

The newbie issue goes away, of course, as you learn more. As for the other two, I don't shop at places that make me feel uncomfortable/unwanted. While you'll definitely find some folks like that in forums, it only takes a mouse click to make them go away.

Happy riding!


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## spade2you (May 12, 2009)

I'm not defending snippy shops, but you gotta remember that dealing with people has its' "perks". I've spent enough time in shops to have an idea of what annoys them.

Most have been mentioned already, but people not wanting to invest in a real bike, having to wrench on junk bikes all the time, and let people test out bikes, equipment, and try on clothing only so they can buy them online.


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## AndrwSwitch (May 28, 2009)

Ironically, the ride in my area that I ended up finding too snobby was the one that claims to welcome people from all walks of life, and the group of cyclists that have been most welcoming to me have been racers. It probably helps that I'm more of a mountain biker, so I started with MTB and 'cross racers, but I've always had good experiences with roadies too. I think maybe it's because there are some very up-front ways that racers establish their credentials - wins, positions, good leadouts for the guy who did win, stuff like that. You can't win a training or charity ride. (Or everybody wins, if they have good attitudes.  )


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## lumber825 (Jun 28, 2009)

I'm a big guy 5'10" and outweigh you. There are 2 LBS's within 5 miles from my house. 1st one I walked into I was treated like crap. I left there and went to Family Bikes in Crofton MD. They practically forced me to take a test ride and 4 bikes later (26" MTB upgraded to a 29er, Giant Defy and a Hybrid I can leave on the trainer year round) I don't go any where else.

I walk in and they call me by name. If I have a simple repair I say I'll pick it up tomorrow, they either do it then or the other day told me to come back in 4 hours.

It's like anything in life some people are jerks and some are awesome. Try to find a shop that wants your business. I'm not your average spandex wearing biker but they treat me great anyway.


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## dc503 (Mar 15, 2011)

Shops can be protective over the brands, its understandable. As said directly above me though, it's all about finding a shop that wants your business regardless. The LBS I'm loyal to now really helped me out after experiencing what you're feeling when I started...it helped getting to learn some things a lot better and feel more comfortable.


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## Mr Pink57 (Mar 30, 2011)

Since when did I as a customer have to earn a business' respect? Isn't it suppose to be the other way around.


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## eugenetsang (Jun 9, 2011)

I agree with Mr Pink57!!

I work in a family oriented business and our motto always have been, To earn one's respect, you must first treat them with respect.

And when it comes to LBS, it shouldnt be any different. One can not assume just bc a 21 y/o kid walks through the door, he/she is just going to waste the sales reps time by asking a million and 1 questions.

You will never know if the person will drop $10k on a bike or walk out with a $8 inner tube... Just because he/she doesnt fit into a "category" of a "cyclist", the person shouldnt be treated any differently.

If that were to happen to me, i too would walk out and never come back. Its the LBS loss and everything for me to gain. I rather spend my hard earned money at LBS where i am wanted. And sucks for the other LBS, they just lost a valued customer and a bunch of referrals/future business.


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## veloduffer (Aug 26, 2004)

Go to a different bike shop. The two LBS that I frequent treat all customers with the same respect - from the newbie to the parent looking for a pink bike to the racers. They take the time to explain different aspects about types of bikes and fit. And sames goes for people bringing in 15 yr old bikes or dept store bikes - they explain what can be done (or not done) and the price (and whether it is worthwhile). For example, a lady brought in a 10 yr old mtb with a rusted chain and flat tires. The mechanic told her about replacing the inner tubes but the tires would not need changing despite some cracking on the sidewalls and the chains was still usable as it was only light surface rust. They could have easily charged her another $75-100 for replacing those parts + labor but didn't.

I don't understand the snobbery or attitude that some shops have. Today's newbie might be tomorrow's racer. This same shop had a woman who started cycling about 3 yrs ago with a hybrid. She got hooked and bought a road bike and started racing. Now she is one of the top time trialers in the state and bought a top-of-the line Trek time trial bike. They would have never had her business if it wasn't the respect and time they showed her 3 yrs ago.

Find a good club to ride with and enjoy the ride.


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## statureman (Apr 20, 2011)

I'm in sales and I understand the need to qualify your sales opportunities and focus on the ones you can win, but to a point. Retail is detail and in today's market _service _is the primary differentiating factor. Most "customers" have no idea of the value a LBS is designed to provide because they know nothing about the product they are trying to use; they only know they have a problem. It's the retailers job to understand the _customers _problem not dismiss them if they don't fit the mold.

I ran a retail store location for over a year. In that time I would bend over backwards to help people with unpaid customer service and instruction. One of my employees said I was the most patient person he had ever met. For me it was about the money. I was there long enough to see those same ignorant, befuddled, and annoying people walk back in and buy from ME because I had helped them get their stuff working a year ago.


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## spade2you (May 12, 2009)

Perhaps I've spent way too much time in bike shops, but everyone wants to be at the front of the line and a lot of those are the folks who are simply using the shop and making their purchases elsewhere. Shop staff spend a lot of time on people who never really planned to make a sale. 

Whenever I hear people say, "I was going to get into __________ but ___________," that's a weak attitude to have. 

Bike shops love people who ride. When you give off that vibe, things get a lot easier. :thumbsup:


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## MSDos5 (Jun 3, 2010)

*My foray*

into a cycling club ended in Me feeling for the most part unwelcome not like I could afford it at the time anyways. The younger people, My age and the people who organized the club for the most part were cool. Probably the worst response to My cycling came from an ex roadie on My blog site. I also have a couple techs that don't like Me, and that can prove to be a problem in this town. 
Bottom line is I feel this is kind of a trend right now, and I'm hoping to outlast the trend.


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## heathb (Nov 1, 2008)

If you don't like your LBS and I'm one of those. I just do all my own wrenching, and buy everything online. 

The cost of shopping at a LBS is usually 50% higher then online. I'm not into throwing my money down the toilet and I've learned over the years that I trust my own work a lot more than guys who wrench their own bikes to perfection, but don't go to those same lengths for customers. 

Besides there's a confidence factor in taking care of your own gear. Rolling your sleeves up, investing in quality tools and reference books leads to less stress down the road. I know of very few racers that don't know how to build and strip bikes if they've been at for years. 

As far as being a snob. Cycling and especially road riding is a sport that is often filled with people that have good incomes. I think the average road cyclist makes $75K a year, owns their own business, has a professional degree. So if you're flat busted broke trying to run in that circle you might find that you're not welcomed. 

The other thing is cycling is becoming more and more about fashion and that fashion is expensive. The manufactures are changing up the styles as fast as possible to get you buy more stuff. They're hoping you feel inadequate, that you need to update your wardrobe, your bike, your everything in order to enhance your cycling experience. What I've learned over my years of cycling. Buy stuff that holds up to daily training, leave the looks of your gear to the concern of others and just put in the hours riding your bike.


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## sikabk (Jun 23, 2011)

Wow...I'm glad I haven't run into some of the above described shops or roadies who want to check my pay stub! Of course they also won't appreciate my 20 year old bike either, but that's their loss.


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## jpaschal01 (Jul 20, 2011)

I just bought my first road bike 3 days ago. At 5'10", 245 - I'm not the typical road cyclist size. I was really uncomfortable going into my LBS to look at road bikes. I found the biggest guy in the store (he was tall and thick, not chubby like me) to help me - figured he would be the closest to identifying with me. He and the other folks I delt with were all great. After buying the bike, I googled my sales guy (had the feeling that he was talented after dealing with him) - yep he was ranked number 2 in the country behind Tyler Farrar in his junior days. He was great to deal with and did not push anything on me. He actually told me not to get shoes and pedals to start. He wants me to get comfortable with the bike over a couple of months and then we can go down that road. Also - the LBS is the biggest in the area. I think that makes a difference - they are used to dealing with all types; from beginners to extremely experienced cyclists.


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## superjesus (Jul 26, 2010)

heathb said:


> * I think the average road cyclist makes $75K a year, owns their own business, has a professional degree.* So if you're flat busted broke trying to run in that circle you might find that you're not welcomed.
> .


With that description, who would have time to ride (outside of dentists, of course)?


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## AZPOWERHOUSE (Dec 16, 2008)

I have seen this before. Its no different than car dealerships or any high dollar shops. Some people are just dbags.

Put some training in, learn to ride. Go on their shop ride and drop them. Have the last laugh.


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## dgeesaman (Jun 9, 2010)

statureman said:


> I am new to serious cycling in the last few years. As I research cycling, bikes, LBS and forums I seem to find an undercurrent of negativity or snobbery, especially at my LBS. Yes I am a BIG dude, right around 290 right now. But I get funny looks when I walk into my local shops most of the time.
> 
> What is the deal? I have limited funds and am building my stock out slowly, but it's frustrating when people won't help you or accuse you of being a shill for a company they don't like.
> 
> What's the deal? Anyone else experiencing this?


I think you need another LBS. There are various kinds of bike shops. Some focus on serious riders and customers with serious budgets. Expensive bikes are not tolerant of heavy riders, and heavy might mean only 200lb. Many bicycling customers don't fit that, and some of these high-end shops are not as tactful as they could be. Or it could be that your LBS are just jerks. Hard to say.

My "LBS" is not the closest one to me. I live near a small city and travel across to the opposite suburb. While my decision had to do with attention to detail during my purchase process, your angle is equally or more important. Visit some others.


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## Ivegotabike (Jul 24, 2011)

Hi all

my first post 

Im actually posting in response to a thread thats similar to this (but i cant find it now  )

Anyway............

Ive cycled all my life (im 39) but only recently got into this road bike thing  

So, im a little keen to build up my confidence then maybe try a group ride.
However, i read a post where a cyclist was more or less made to feel unwelcome by an established (yet apparently advertised and open) shop group.
Though most people stated that the group must have been made up of A-holes, some of the comments (from people who knew the group i guess) defended them, saying that the new cyclist (not a beginner, just new to that race) needed to earn the respect of the other riders before he was allowed to really participate..... and that them ignoring him and acting "superior" was actually to be expected!!!! 

Well, its this snobbery and small minded, closed sense of superiority that makes me a little hesistant to join in with this sport... 

I played guitar semi-pro for nearly 22 years and ive seen all of this before, luckily i was the (without being big headed here i hope) better player on the circuit so didnt have to put up with idiots looking down at me, but i seen it happen all the time with beginners.
It is true that most of the guys who were really good took the time to make newcomers feel welcome and help them out, but there were always the elitist's with too much money to spend that thought that having the best equipment made them better than everyone else somehow....

Im seeing the same thing here im afraid. There is no defence for people being rude, arrogant or condescending and hiding it beneath an excuse of "but were professional, he havent got time for amateurs", when in fact they are not any better than the rest of us.

Already ive seen a few people try to look down at me as ive not got the best bike in the world or the fanciest gear, its a little annoying.

Why is it always like this with some people? Dont get me wrong, ive met more nice people than d*cks, but when you come across them it just makes you so disheartened.

It sounds a lot worse in the USA to be honest, from what you guys all say...... at least here in the UK there is quite an open attitude, but some of the stuff i hear on this site just makes me angry, its not like these guys are pro riders, just people with a bad attitude.

Anyway...... thanks for listening, i will calm down soon


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## BeginnerCycling (Jun 4, 2011)

I think the good thing is that you don't really have to hang out with those folks. Sure, if you live in an area with only one bike shop, then you might have to tolerate it while purchasing and during some maintenance visits, but if you don't like the shop you can buy most anything online these days -- and there are youtube (and other) videos on the web that guide you through most non-major repairs.

You can ride alone, with a friend, and many towns have bike clubs with rides for all levels of riders. The nice thing about cycling is that you don't have to be a member of a snooty club to ride the roads. Life is too short to let a few bad apples spoil a fun activity.


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## tystevens (Jul 10, 2008)

IMO, it kind of depends who you're dealing with at the LBS. It seems most of the young guys who work in most LBS's have some attitude. The stereotypcial LBS employee is way in to cycling, probably race, do club rides, and thinks the world revolves around cycling. They smirk a little when you ask for the triple or whether that frame will fit 28mm tires. There is a shop like this on my commuting route that I frequent most often due to its location. When I walk to pick up some tubes or whatever -- in all overweight, unshaven legs, backpack on with a tshirt instead of a jersey, I see the young bucks rolling their eyes. No big deal -- I understand where they are coming from. They could pound me into the ground and they know it.

And this isn't unique to cycling -- from my experience, shops for any sport will have a certain amount of attitude, whether its a ski shop, an outdoor shop (who hasn't dealt with some smug granola kid in REI), a fly fishing shop, or whatever. I worked at a ski resort for a couple years, skiied every day, and spent a lot of time skiing with shop guys, instructors and other resort employees -- skiing was their life, they were good at it, and most were pretty proud of their abilities. I can't say we didn't make some smug comments about the East Coast dude with his shiny Volants in a Bogner one-piece (this was the mid-90's) from time to time.

At the LBS, when I'm dealing with an owner or manager, it usually seems to be different -- they're more likely to see the big picture, want to make a sale, keep a customer, and seem genuinely interested in helping me like the sport. Definitely a different experience.


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## JAC526 (Jun 10, 2011)

There are d!cks everywhere. In all walks of life. My opinion...tell them to to F&ck off.

Find a shop you like. Its the best thing I've done. I'm new at this as well...been riding for a few months now. 

The shop I go to they know I"m new and they help me out as much as they can. The commiserate when I tell about the hill that kicked my a$$, the awful headwind, etc...


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## tednugent (Apr 26, 2010)

statureman said:


> I am new to serious cycling in the last few years. As I research cycling, bikes, LBS and forums I seem to find an undercurrent of negativity or snobbery, especially at my LBS. Yes I am a BIG dude, right around 290 right now. But I get funny looks when I walk into my local shops most of the time.
> 
> What is the deal? I have limited funds and am building my stock out slowly, but it's frustrating when people won't help you or accuse you of being a shill for a company they don't like.
> 
> What's the deal? Anyone else experiencing this?


Check out this link:

http://www.bicycling.com/training-nutrition/nutrition-weight-loss/i-lost-320-pounds-riding-bike

This is an article of a bigger guy.....he's gone through the negativity to get a bike for his hefty frame.


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## bigdlv (Jul 7, 2011)

*Most cyclists are very friendly*

As a new cycling fan, enthusiast, I find that most of the people you meet on the road are very friendly. I tell my wife how when I stop for a break, most riders as they pass ask if everything is ok. There are a few snobby people who won't make the effort to wave or nod in passing but I consider it their loss for having a gloomy personality. So if you see me grinding along give me a nod or a wave and you'll get one right back!


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## tystevens (Jul 10, 2008)

tednugent said:


> Check out this link:
> 
> http://www.bicycling.com/training-nutrition/nutrition-weight-loss/i-lost-320-pounds-riding-bike
> 
> This is an article of a bigger guy.....he's gone through the negativity to get a bike for his hefty frame.


Great story! Thanks for the link.


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## Fireform (Dec 15, 2005)

I used to wrench in a bike shop. It sucks that so many people come in to shop these days only to go buy on the internet. But, if you think it's bad being friendly to people and then have them go elsewhere, it's a lot worse being snobby and pretty much guaranteeing they will go elsewhere. You are at the mercy of the buyer, period.

FWIW, bike shops can be intimidating for newbies, some more than others, but I see very little snobbery per se on the roads. Roadies tend to naturally sort out by ability, especially in an area like mine where there are hordes of cyclists on the road every weekend, and within a given group there is if anything more respect for the guy hanging with a cheap or vintage bike than the guy doing the same with the latest and greatest tech. Several of the swiftest riders I know ride very midrange bikes. 

You do run into guys who dismiss other riders at first glance. No help for that situation. I love the expressions on their faces when I drop them.


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## BostonG (Apr 13, 2010)

This thread has inspired me to throw a chinese star at the next person who doesn't wave back.


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## smokey422 (Feb 22, 2004)

Most other bicyclists that I have run into have been very friendly and pleasant to deal with. Unfortunately there are a few d*cks out there. I ran into one at a motorcycle rally we were sponsoring. It was in a public park and a group of cyclists, all on fancy bikes and kitted out to the max, stopped at the bathroom and showerhouse. They were refilling their water bottles and one of them was on a very nice new Lemond, the same brand I own. I walked up to him and complimented him on his bike, told him I also rode a Lemond, and asked him how their ride was going. He looked at me and smirked, then turned away and talked to his companions briefly before riding away. I was in my motorcycle riding clothes but that shouldn't have made me a bad guy to him. For every rider like him, though, you'll meet a hundred nice ones in my experience. Now car drivers.......that's another story.


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## Blackbeerthepirate (Apr 26, 2011)

Sometimes being just a little nice pays big dividends. When buying my wifes first road bike we visited five local shops. One was by far the best when it came to service, but we ended up buying a brand they didn't carry. We went back over to the shop we liked to drop off a case of beer to thank them for their time and help. One of the guys asked to see her new bike, which was on the back of the car. The tech then spent 45 minutes refitting her to the bike. Charge-nothing. The guys wife hooked her up with a good beginners group that my wife loves. They have since turned us on to all kinds of local knowledge (we are new to this area) that would have taken years to acquire. All this for some beer and kind words. A few months ago I asked someone stopped on a trail if they needed some help, and ended up changing a tire for them. I now have a riding buddy who gets great basketball seats through his work. I get to see my hometown team from the third row now. Go Heat.


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## bigdlv (Jul 7, 2011)

Great story


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## Salsa_Lover (Jul 6, 2008)

config said:


> That same snobbery almost prevented me from taking up road cycling. I never experienced that when I was mountain biking though. The LBS and other mountain bikers seem to be cool folks.
> 
> Fortunately, a job move took me to Italy. There, all the roadies and LBS were down to earth and more than willing to take on a new roadie. Night and day difference than in the U.S. My opinion, the snobbery goes up a level with the category of the bikes they have. It seems the more expensive, the more elitist they become. They associate cost of bike with income. Heck, I've seen several comments on here from people who think the cost of their bike alone commands respect from another since they're on much less worthy bikes.
> 
> I don't let it bother me. *The bike is simply a tool*. What matters is the person on it. Ride on, ride strong!


blasphemy !

see Rule 4


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## Fireform (Dec 15, 2005)

Blackbeerthepirate said:


> Sometimes being just a little nice pays big dividends. When buying my wifes first road bike we visited five local shops. One was by far the best when it came to service, but we ended up buying a brand they didn't carry. We went back over to the shop we liked to drop off a case of beer to thank them for their time and help. One of the guys asked to see her new bike, which was on the back of the car. The tech then spent 45 minutes refitting her to the bike. Charge-nothing. The guys wife hooked her up with a good beginners group that my wife loves. They have since turned us on to all kinds of local knowledge (we are new to this area) that would have taken years to acquire. All this for some beer and kind words. A few months ago I asked someone stopped on a trail if they needed some help, and ended up changing a tire for them. I now have a riding buddy who gets great basketball seats through his work. I get to see my hometown team from the third row now. Go Heat.


Yup, it's that good karma. Most people wouldn't have brought them the case of beer, and I'm not surprised they appreciated it. Which shop, btw? I'm local to you.


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## Blackbeerthepirate (Apr 26, 2011)

Fireform said:


> Yup, it's that good karma. Most people wouldn't have brought them the case of beer, and I'm not surprised they appreciated it. Which shop, btw? I'm local to you.


We are on contract in Orlando for the next six months so the shop is Orange Cycle in College Park.


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## Fireform (Dec 15, 2005)

Too bad--I'm in Miami. Great story nonetheless.


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## Emdee406 (Aug 23, 2011)

*First group ride coming up...*

I was a little nervous about my first ever group ride coming up and from this forum, I don't think my worries are unfounded.
I live in a VERY wealthy ski town, but am NOT in that wage bracket. Just about all the bikes I see on the road are top of the line set ups, full carbon, Ultegra etc... I have the base model Defy and am still saving for shoes and pedals. I did however have to shell out on a new Fizik saddle as a matter of urgency before I lost my manhood!

Well my concern re: the group ride also stems from the fact that these are the same general crowd that skis at Deer Valley ski resort and treat snowboarders like myself (even though I have competed on the World Cup/ridden Pro) like dirt under your shoe. 
My LBS is cool, they treat everyone well and know me from my Winter reputation, but said "high end locals", are borderline rude to me in there, happy to interrupt me mid-discussion with staff, to ask their own questions over the top of me. 

Well, part of me says why should I bother with a group ride, but everyone online recommends it, and this is the only one in my area. I want to learn to ride better and although I pick up a lot on the web, there is no real substitute. 

Fingers crossed, things will work out...


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## woodys737 (Dec 31, 2005)

Emdee406 said:


> I was a little nervous about my first ever group ride coming up and from this forum, I don't think my worries are unfounded.
> I live in a VERY wealthy ski town, but am NOT in that wage bracket. Just about all the bikes I see on the road are top of the line set ups, full carbon, Ultegra etc... I have the base model Defy and am still saving for shoes and pedals. I did however have to shell out on a new Fizik saddle as a matter of urgency before I lost my manhood!
> 
> Well my concern re: the group ride also stems from the fact that these are the same general crowd that skis at Deer Valley ski resort and treat snowboarders like myself (even though I have competed on the World Cup/ridden Pro) like dirt under your shoe.
> ...


My advise is focus on what really matters and to me that's 100% related to fitness. I have more respect for the guy who shows up on a beater bike and kick's ass than I do middle aged guy riding a trust fund. The world is full of self absorbed people but I'm always surprised that every so often the guy I thought was an absolute prick turned out to be sincere and true. Obviously there are many who treat people with no respect. Don't let them ruin your ride, your day or your life! Most important, don't turn into one of them.


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## Emdee406 (Aug 23, 2011)

woodys737 said:


> My advise is focus on what really matters and to me that's 100% related to fitness. I have more respect for the guy who shows up on a beater bike and kick's ass than I do middle aged guy riding a trust fund. The world is full of self absorbed people but I'm always surprised that every so often the guy I thought was an absolute prick turned out to be sincere and true. Obviously there are many who treat people with no respect. Don't let them ruin your ride, your day or your life! Most important, don't turn into one of them.


Thanks for the words of encouragement, I'm pretty fit, especially for my age but I am inexperienced so don't know if my lack of knowledge will hold me back. I'm pretty competitive in my sports background, which means I'm more likely to ride myself into the ground before I get dropped. 
As for turning into one of them, I'll never let it happen. I'm National Masters Boardercross Champ, but I'm equally happy to teach beginners on the mountain, patience is my middle name.
One thing I didn't mention, I'm a foreigner and black, this has sometimes been a factor too...but there's definitely NOTHING I can do about that!


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## AndrwSwitch (May 28, 2009)

The midlife crisis dudes on Cervelos ("White Men Design?" :wink5: ) are going to hate you. Have fun with it - they need to get owned by people on inexpensive equipment from time to time.

I bet if you pedal with good form, you're going to be fine. People who are strong athletes still have a learning curve with cycling, but it seems to be yet another way that the world is unfair - strong athletes are strong athletes.


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## Jim52 (Aug 24, 2011)

I decided to take up bike riding after a 30 year layoff. Being a bit impulsive, I didn't research first, went right into Target and bought a Schwinn S-25 mountain bike. I wanted to get it tuned by a LBS since the front brake was out of adjustment. I called one shop, and when he found out it was a 'department store bike' he refused to even look at it, and he started ridiculing me and my bike. I pleaded with him to just look at it but he wouldn't.

Long story short, when I decided to purchase my Giant Rapid 2 fitness bike, he was a Giant dealer, but I wouldn't give him my business for all the money in the world. I drove 30 miles away to another Giant dealer and put my order in there. I'm not sure what the profit margin is on that bike sale for a LBS, but that jerk lost out. 

Treating customers with respect doesn't cost anything, but it will cost you a lot if you don't.


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## motard5 (Aug 9, 2010)

I am a road newbie, although have been mountain biking for over 15 years. From what I have observed thus far, the snobbery in road biking is mainly due to economics of the consumers. High percentage are white, middle to upper class, especially in areas described like Colorado. Combine this with an activity/sport where the industry forces a ton of 'tech' at you, and where fairly intelligent riders thrive on this knowledge, it creates quite a hierarchy. 

I have noticed quite a high % of road riders [especially in comparison to MTB] main focus on the sport are reasons other than the actual riding. Whether for the techy part, building/customizing of bikes, bargain hunting, having the best looking bike, cruising past the ladies etc. Its all good, as has been stated so many times, the rich old guys keep the industry alive. 

What I do find very ironic thus far is snobbery in actual ability levels. Let’s face it, most elite athletes in America are playing Football, Basketball, Baseball, Track or Soccer. The cost of cycling simply is too prohibitive for lesser income individuals, whom IMO, would clean house if provided a proper training/chance. Although it does occur, many older road cyclists (that at least I have encountered), were rarely star, or even athletes at all. 

On a positive note though, cycling itself promotes great individualism and self discipline, so you do not need anyones approval on what, or how you ride. Research and find a great bike, and ride the snot out of it without worry about anyone else.


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## Fireform (Dec 15, 2005)

Two words: ignore it. 

Do what you enjoy. Other people's attitudes are their problems, not yours, unless you choose to make them yours.


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## AndrwSwitch (May 28, 2009)

motard5 said:


> I am a road newbie, although have been mountain biking for over 15 years. From what I have observed thus far, the snobbery in road biking is mainly due to economics of the consumers. High percentage are white, middle to upper class, especially in areas described like Colorado. Combine this with an activity/sport where the industry forces a ton of 'tech' at you, and where fairly intelligent riders thrive on this knowledge, it creates quite a hierarchy.
> 
> I have noticed quite a high % of road riders [especially in comparison to MTB] main focus on the sport are reasons other than the actual riding. Whether for the techy part, building/customizing of bikes, bargain hunting, having the best looking bike, cruising past the ladies etc. Its all good, as has been stated so many times, the rich old guys keep the industry alive.
> 
> ...


All I can say is that I'm glad I started riding with teams when I started doing a lot of riding with groups.

There's a bike club here that everyone makes fun of for their matching fluorescent jackets, name tags, and titanium and carbon. Not that there's not a lot of carbon on a typical team ride, or that the matching team kit business isn't silly in its way. But I've always felt like all you have to do to be accepted by racers is show up ready to train or compete.

I think people only need technology to the extent that they believe they need technology. One of our stronger Masters' guys is very low tech. I'll accept that going to a crit without integrated shifters is setting oneself up for failure, but integrated shifters are twenty years old.

Races settle the pecking order very fast. People who are theoretically on a friendly ride need to find a different way.

FWIW, I think mountain bikers, at least in my area, are just as bad. Maybe not the ones I see on the far, less accessible parts of trail. But the ones I run into on easy trails.


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## ddimick (Aug 9, 2011)

Emdee406 said:


> Well my concern re: the group ride also stems from the fact that these are the same general crowd that skis at Deer Valley ski resort and treat snowboarders like myself (even though I have competed on the World Cup/ridden Pro) like dirt under your shoe.


I know what you mean about the attitudes some have at Deer Valley. Last time I was there was back in the late 90's. Someone saw the board on my car and made a point of walking up to tell me that my kind belongs over at Wolf.

Don't worry about the group ride. In the end it's always about the legs. Getting attitude thrown your way is just motivation to train harder, and they'll probably be cool anyway.


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## dgeesaman (Jun 9, 2010)

Emdee406 said:


> Well, part of me says why should I bother with a group ride, but everyone online recommends it, and this is the only one in my area. I want to learn to ride better and although I pick up a lot on the web, there is no real substitute.


Wow, what a bunch of d-bags. Rest assured there are normal people in your area who ride for the sake of riding and not as another form of classification. You'll need to bump about a few groups to figure out where the riding is a little more "athletic" and a bit more "casual".

David


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## SFTifoso (Aug 17, 2011)

Try walking into guitar center when you don't know how to play to guitar. When you test out the guitars you get these "what the hell are you doing here?" looks. Who gives a flying flip. It's your money, your life.


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## mksmith713 (Aug 27, 2011)

I feel your pain....I was over 240# and not quite 5'8" when I first started riding.
The LBS's in my area consistantly tried talking me into MTB's.


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## SlowMike (Aug 21, 2011)

I'm just getting back into riding after a 15 year break, but you see this all over the place...car clubs, musicians, softball, golf, etc. I've been on both sides of the fence in golf. I'm an complete gear ho, so I've spent a few minutes in golf shops throughout the country. I also worked in golf retail in one of the snottiest, most pretentious towns in Maryland, which is saying a lot. We had a-holes rolling through that place daily. The golf courses are a lot like the roads, too...you had some guys with the $3k bag of clubs and a 10-cent swings who thought they owned the joint, and decent but not great players who acted like they were on the Tour.

The posers and snobs don't really bother me in either sport. If they were as good as they think they are, we'd be watching them on TV. Otherwise, they're just big fish in small ponds who (mostly) have to get up and go to work in the morning like the rest of us. I'm not saying every A-ride or every club should allow novices or beginners (they have every right to be as exclusive as they want), but there's absolutely no need for them to act that way towards beginners or people with lesser talent.


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## NateHawk (Aug 19, 2011)

I've encountered jerks in shops before. It's been uncommon, but I have a simple solution: don't shop there. If you really want a particular bike that they have, get in touch with a shop farther away that carries it. Mention that xxx shop treats you like crap and possibly buy from the other shop (if they earn your business). Stories like that make it to product reps for the bike manufacturers and they don't like the dealers who sell their product to be jerks to customers because it affects their bottom line.

As for other riders, I've encountered jerks there, too. I just avoid interacting with them if I can. If they're snobbish and look down on me for what I ride, that's their problem not mine.

And I've encountered those attitudes from both mountain bikers and roadies. Neither group has a monopoly on the a$$holes.


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## OldEndicottHiway (Jul 16, 2007)

mksmith713 said:


> I feel your pain....*I was over 240# and not quite 5'8" when I first started riding.*The LBS's in my area consistantly tried talking me into MTB's.



Ten more pounds and that would've made you the perfect "O." 





To all the beginners facing snobbery and people with more than 10 bikes...

Eff 'em. 

It's not about them.


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## paredown (Oct 18, 2006)

OldEndicottHiway said:


> To all the beginners facing snobbery and people with more than 10 bikes...
> 
> Eff 'em.
> 
> It's not about them.


^^What she said^^

I was surprised when I went into a local shop in Brooklyn (with a big rep & lots of high end gear & a big online presence) and was treated pretty brusquely--I wasn't wasting anyone's time and needed some technical advice prepping a frame.

I'm a born-again cyclist and expected that I was walking into a shop that was like my old shop that sponsored my brother and me racing back in the day--laid back, helpful, casual and staffed by nice folks--and instead got attitude.

Couple of days later, I was riding along side a guy in Prospect Park and struck up a conversation--did the reality check. "Hey, I was in XX cycles and they were pretty rude--was it just me?" 

So he tells me how he had gone into the same shop, cash in hand to purchase new bikes for him and his wife, got the brush-off and took his cash elsewhere. He then set me straight about a couple of other shops where the guys were actually helpful.

So find the good shops and keep them in business.

One thought about group rides though--if you don't have much experience, there will be a learning curve for you, and a period where people will be cautious around you until they know you can handle your bike and have learned the do's and don'ts. This is not snobbery--just caution--where riding close together in traffic is a matter of trust that is earned.


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## velocanman (Jul 15, 2011)

statureman said:


> What's the deal? Anyone else experiencing this?


I have seen that a many bike shops, even the ones that claim they aren't snobs. Even after 15 years of riding in our community I still remember who was friendly at first, and who was not.

Look for a shop that is catering to the "general" public with a lot of commuter and city bikes, along with a good selection of road bikes.

Hopefully you have a choice of shops. Be loyal to the shop you like and they will take care of you back.

And don't worry about your size. Everyone should be supportive to help you Get Out and Ride. Please don't get discouraged...


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## pacificaslim (Sep 10, 2008)

Here's the way I see it. Most businesses are about making money. And they treat the customer as a priority because they want to take every last dollar they can. 

But most people who own/operate bike shops (or guitar shops, or record shops, or whatever other hobby/passion related shop) aren't in it for the money. They just like bikes and (certain) people who ride them. They don't mind losing a sale or two in order to alienate people they really don't want to hang around with anyway.

Find a shop you fit in to. Or just buy stuff online and fix your own bikes.


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## Emdee406 (Aug 23, 2011)

*Well, I did it...*



ddimick said:


> I know what you mean about the attitudes some have at Deer Valley. Last time I was there was back in the late 90's. Someone saw the board on my car and made a point of walking up to tell me that my kind belongs over at Wolf.
> 
> Don't worry about the group ride. In the end it's always about the legs. Getting attitude thrown your way is just motivation to train harder, and they'll probably be cool anyway.


I took the plunge and went on my first group ride tonight. When I turned up and made smalltalk with a small but friendly part of the large group of 20 or so riders, I felt a little intimidated when I noticed my bike was the ONLY non-carbon bike in sight and I was the only one still in toeclips (sadly my shoe/clip budget had to be diverted to a channel saddle to preserve feeling in my Ol' Fella). I saw so many bikes whose groupsets not only cost more than my bike plus Fizik saddle, but more than my Explorer!

The "no-drop" ride was tougher than I expected, this was the Summer's last session and they had been riding together since Memorial Day, so fitness levels were high. I'm a sprinter, I discovered as I labored on the long gradual climbs but gained respect when the group was split by a red light. Not sure what was best, I sprinted after the leading group at 30+mph, caught them and apparently pulled the 2nd group along. Comments of 'nice riding' , 'awesome' and 'well done' rang out and my chest swelled...before it exploded on the next climb!

All in all a good experience, further than I had ridden before, met a few very cool people (one a snowboard pupil of mine who introduced me with pride and an embarrassing amount of build-up!) and several who ignored attempts at conversation and looked down their nose at me and my bike...but I'm not put off. 
I'll be back!


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## spyro (Aug 3, 2004)

dgeesaman said:


> I think you need another LBS. There are various kinds of bike shops. Some focus on serious riders and customers with serious budgets. Expensive bikes are not tolerant of heavy riders, and heavy might mean only 200lb. Many bicycling customers don't fit that, and some of these high-end shops are not as tactful as they could be. Or it could be that your LBS are just jerks. Hard to say.
> 
> My "LBS" is not the closest one to me. I live near a small city and travel across to the opposite suburb. While my decision had to do with attention to detail during my purchase process, your angle is equally or more important. Visit some others.


See now this is an attitude any bike shop should jump on and squash in a second. With more and more of our population being overweight they are just running customers out of their shop. Treat people right and they will come back and spend more money.

My favorite story I heard was when a very large black (300lbs) man walked into a bike shop and was asking an employee questions about the bikes. The employee did a great job of making the gentleman feel welcome in the shop. Well it turns out the gentleman in question rode a recumbent bike, and happened to be the president of a local cycling non profit. He decided to become more involved with cycling after losing more than 50 LBS. He had been talked down to in several shops he visited previously and was very happy with the service he received in this one. Well you can guess who got all the business from the 200 odd people in his cycling group. Not the ELITIST shops.

The point is you can't know who someone is by how they look.


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## robdamanii (Feb 13, 2006)

paredown said:


> ^^What she said^^
> 
> I was surprised when I went into a local shop in Brooklyn (with a big rep & lots of high end gear & a big online presence) and was treated pretty brusquely--I wasn't wasting anyone's time and needed some technical advice prepping a frame.
> 
> ...


I'd wager a cup of coffee you're talking about R&A Cycles...


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## dcorn (Sep 1, 2011)

I noticed this too, big time. There are a ton of bike shops around the DC metro area and I think I found one of the best, but also one of the 'snootiest'. 

Ignore it. Who gives a damn what they think? 

I rode a used Allez and decided to upgrade. I went in a fancy bike shop full of carbon Cervelos, Pinarellos, Willier's, Cannondales and Tarmacs and test rode a few bikes on mountain SPD pedals lol. I'm sure the tech guys were like "are we seriously putting SPD's on a Cervelo?" But I ended up buying one anyway, so if they would have shunned me, they would have lost out on an almost $2k sale. 

The reason I bought from them is because they are probably one of the highest quality shops in the area and since they have reeeeally nice bikes, they must know what the hell they are talking about. Nobody is going to go into a hack shop and buy a $10k carbon Di2 bike if the mechanics have a bad rep. Now I'm going on their shop rides where lots of guys are on race teams and riding crazy expensive bikes, and I can usually stay towards the front of the B group. All after only 10 months of road riding. 


Nobody can start out at the top with the best equipment and in the best shape. Ignore the haters, enjoy the sport.


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## AndrwSwitch (May 28, 2009)

I once test rode an Ibis Mojo with Speedplay road pedals. Hadn't planned on the test ride but hey - there it was.

I don't think the mechanic really cares. The most reaction I get from mechanics when I bring my bikes in is to my older bikes, and it's always been positive.

Although, I guess I hear about snooty mechanics. Seems weird to me - ones I know usually have a couple of unique, relatively inexpensive bikes.


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## ezrida (Aug 20, 2011)

Everyone's gotta start somewhere!!!! They were a beginner once. So whatever with the attitude, it's an inferiority complex (maybe) or just plain a--hole. 
F--K them and take your $$ else where that appreciates it. 

Just because they have a nice fancy bike doesn't mean they can outride someone on a clunker. It's all the more impressive when you kicked their behind on the road.


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## ziscwg (Apr 19, 2010)

ezrida said:


> Everyone's gotta start somewhere!!!! They were a beginner once. So whatever with the attitude, it's an inferiority complex (maybe) or just plain a--hole.
> F--K them and take your $$ else where that appreciates it.
> 
> Just because they have a nice fancy bike doesn't mean they can outride someone on a clunker. It's all the more impressive when you kicked their behind on the road.


I got that feeling a lot as I passed many on the 90 mi route at Livestrong last year on my new $1000 road bike. I even had my mtb pedals and shoes with the toe cleats still on.

My buddy had a crash early on that held us back. He had to take a shorter route. That left me solo on 60 of the 90 miles. 

I saw a lot of nice bikes from behind, then a side view, then a front view. I even had one girl on a nice TT bike (with Zipp wheels no less) say under her breath as I passed her "Stupid mtn biker". I guess she was having a bad day. I guess the helmet visor and mtb shoes gave me away. In general, most said hello as I passed. Some tried to step it up.

So, as I break another rule here, I will say it again...........
It's the engine, not the bike.


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## ezrida (Aug 20, 2011)

^^^^ agreed^^^^ i still ride with my xtr spd pedals with my mtb shoes, and yes, my helmet does have the visor it as well. But I do have look good in my matching bib/jersey set though (knock offs from china  So be nice, ride safe, wave or say hello to everyone. We were all noobie once!!!!


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## paredown (Oct 18, 2006)

ziscwg said:


> I got that feeling a lot as I passed many on the 90 mi route at Livestrong last year on my new $1000 road bike. I even had my mtb pedals and shoes with the toe cleats still on.
> 
> My buddy had a crash early on that held us back. He had to take a shorter route. That left me solo on 60 of the 90 miles.
> 
> ...


This reminds me of the first long race that my brother entered back in the day. We had not purchased cycling shoes yet, and still rode in ordinary cotton shorts. (My bro had a nice bike though--a Peugeot PX 10-e.) 

Eighty+ mile race over some decent hills and he was put in with the Senior A (Cat 1 equivalent). Race starts--and the hardcore think--we'll go like h3ll and get rid of all the hangers on. Thirty miles later--my brother is still there. He's also hanging off the back, too because he was still nervous about drafting and didn't like getting too close.

Another 30--he's still there. Then over the worst climbs on the course--the bunch is down to 10 or 12 riders and he's still hanging off the back.

He finished with the group--got a rep and a nickname "The Ox" and later when we got to know the guys they told the story pretty well.

It's not the zoot clothes or wheels--it's the engine.


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## teflondog (Aug 23, 2011)

I encounter bike snobs even though I have a decent bike. I couldn't afford my dream car so I bought my dream bike (Cervelo S2). I ride for pure recreation. Since I'm new to road riding, I'm still using the platform pedals that the LBS put on the bike for the test drive. Apparently using platforms on a Cervelo is a big faux pas because I get rude comments everywhere by other cyclists. I just ordered clipless pedals and shoes so we'll see how that goes.


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## Jim52 (Aug 24, 2011)

teflondog said:


> I encounter bike snobs even though I have a decent bike. I couldn't afford my dream car so I bought my dream bike (Cervelo S2). I ride for pure recreation. Since I'm new to road riding, I'm still using the platform pedals that the LBS put on the bike for the test drive. Apparently using platforms on a Cervelo is a big faux pas because I get rude comments everywhere by other cyclists. I just ordered clipless pedals and shoes so we'll see how that goes.


Teflondog, hopefully you're getting the pedals and shoes because you want to go clipless, and not because of the rude comments. I got PD5610 pedals as part of my purchase of my Titanium bike. The problem is, my right foot goes totally numb when staying in the same position for more than 10 miles, so I never put the clipless on, I bought platforms so I could move my foot around. Do I look stupid with platform pedals on a titanium bike with Shimano Dura Ace components? Perhaps, but if my right foot is not complaining, I'm not complaining


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## charlox5 (Jan 31, 2011)

i think i'm at the point where i really don't care what a bunch of guys in tight pants think, haha. riding isn't social for me--sometimes i ride with friends, most of the time i'm alone however--but i do like to give the "nod" or a quick wave to other guys i see on the road. I see that it's returned 40% of the time, but i don't care. i'm just the goofy guy that says hi to everyone. HI!


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## teflondog (Aug 23, 2011)

Jim52 said:


> Teflondog, hopefully you're getting the pedals and shoes because you want to go clipless, and not because of the rude comments. I got PD5610 pedals as part of my purchase of my Titanium bike. The problem is, my right foot goes totally numb when staying in the same position for more than 10 miles, so I never put the clipless on, I bought platforms so I could move my foot around. Do I look stupid with platform pedals on a titanium bike with Shimano Dura Ace components? Perhaps, but if my right foot is not complaining, I'm not complaining


Yes, I'm definitely going clipless because of all the positive reviews I've read. But if it turns out that I don't like them, I won't hesitate going back to platforms. I know I won't ever wear lycra. I'll stick to my padded mtb shorts along with my camelbak.


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## AndrwSwitch (May 28, 2009)

It's a free country, but I'd suggest getting rid of the camelbak.

I don't even use one for mountain biking anymore unless I'm riding more than three hours.

I'm a lot happier not to have something on my back.

I was doing intervals the other day. So I'm going as fast as I can, for whatever that's worth, and I pass a girl on a triathlon bike. My computer turns over the 6 minute mark, I sit up. A moment later she passes me in that pointed-feeling way. I was probably just reading more into it, but whatever. The stupid part is that I caught her again before I even started my next work unit.

My nicest bike is a '99 LeMond Buenos Aires. I love it very much, but to people to whom its important, the frame is about two generations behind the times.


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## shinedown (Dec 12, 2010)

The looks I get from some shops are pure comedy. 6'4'' 245 (former football player) black guy walking into a bike shop. I get nothing but "Why are you here looks?" I think over the last two years since I have spent well over 10k on bikes/parts and none has went to any of my LBS for their 'how dare he step foot in my shop' attitidue. Not shopping at the LBS I have made some great connections inside the cycling industry and now usually end up getting screaming deals and great service from my connections. 

I have noticed more snobbery in the road biking world vs. MTB. I don't really let it bother me at all. I have dealt with the sheer igronrance of people for sometime. 

I ride to have fun, I am not going to let some dbags get in the way of my fun.


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## tystevens (Jul 10, 2008)

teflondog said:


> I encounter bike snobs even though I have a decent bike. I couldn't afford my dream car so I bought my dream bike (Cervelo S2). I ride for pure recreation. Since I'm new to road riding, I'm still using the platform pedals that the LBS put on the bike for the test drive. Apparently using platforms on a Cervelo is a big faux pas because I get rude comments everywhere by other cyclists. I just ordered clipless pedals and shoes so we'll see how that goes.


I guess I need to pay more attention when I'm out riding. I seldom even notice the type of bike that others are riding, let alone whether they have clipless pedals. Maybe I'm doing it wrong?


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## spade2you (May 12, 2009)

tystevens said:


> I guess I need to pay more attention when I'm out riding. I seldom even notice the type of bike that others are riding, let alone whether they have clipless pedals. Maybe I'm doing it wrong?


Hard to spot clipless vs platform, although not too hard to figure out if you see normal shoes and super low cadence.


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## ziscwg (Apr 19, 2010)

teflondog said:


> I encounter bike snobs even though I have a decent bike. I couldn't afford my dream car so I bought my dream bike (Cervelo S2). I ride for pure recreation. Since I'm new to road riding, I'm still using the platform pedals that the LBS put on the bike for the test drive. Apparently using platforms on a Cervelo is a big faux pas because I get rude comments everywhere by other cyclists. I just ordered clipless pedals and shoes so we'll see how that goes.


If I saw you on that bike with platforms, I would think your pedals or shoes didn't come in yet that you needed. 

I hope you sped past those snobs that dissed you because of not having the right pedals. My thought to them, "Shut up and ride"


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## ziscwg (Apr 19, 2010)

teflondog said:


> Yes, I'm definitely going clipless because of all the positive reviews I've read. But if it turns out that I don't like them, I won't hesitate going back to platforms. I know I won't ever wear lycra. I'll stick to my padded mtb shorts along with my camelbak.


Wait until you get up to 40 mph on a downhill have to move your legs around for good pedal position in the turn. Those baggies will catch air like a parachute and pull you a bit. A bad feeling at 40 mph in a turn. Well, that is unless you like air enemas. LOL

If you like the feel of platforms, put the new Shimano XT or XTR Trail style pedals on there and wear the same shoes.

If you want road platform like feel, the Speedplay Zeros do that nicely.


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## spade2you (May 12, 2009)

Ditch the MTB baggies. If you have image issues, ride more.

As to the Cervelo and platforms, it's one of the nice bikes out there and far from cheap. If you can't afford shoes/pedals, probably couldn't comfortably afford the bike in the first place. Affordable shoes and pedals are out there and make riding so much more comfortable, as do good road shorts. 

Camel Baks just not as feasible on long road rides. Sure, it seems nice to have ~3L of ice cold water, but if you properly hydrate before and use the right stuff while riding, you'd be surprised how far you can go on 2 bottles of an electrolyte mix.


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## Emdee406 (Aug 23, 2011)

shinedown said:


> The looks I get from some shops are pure comedy. 6'4'' 245 (former football player) black guy walking into a bike shop. I get nothing but "Why are you here looks?" I think over the last two years since I have spent well over 10k on bikes/parts and none has went to any of my LBS for their 'how dare he step foot in my shop' attitidue. Not shopping at the LBS I have made some great connections inside the cycling industry and now usually end up getting screaming deals and great service from my connections.
> 
> I have noticed more snobbery in the road biking world vs. MTB. I don't really let it bother me at all. I have dealt with the sheer igronrance of people for sometime.
> 
> I ride to have fun, I am not going to let some dbags get in the way of my fun.


Right there with you! I just brush it off when I meet roadies in my slightly snooty ski town, not so much nods but 'double takes', really funny and I always laugh!
I am a black professional snowboarder in a sport where black people are very few and far between, so you do have to get used to some very surprised looks. My favourite non-bike experience was crossing the line first in the Boardercross event at US Nationals Masters event, pulling off my goggles and full face helmet and watching the congratulatory expressions change to surprise and the stutter in the cheers and applause! Add to that my 30yr best friend (who is white) in between almost wetting himself while laughing hysterically, shouts "he's British too!"... Priceless!


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## teflondog (Aug 23, 2011)

spade2you said:


> As to the Cervelo and platforms, it's one of the nice bikes out there and far from cheap. If you can't afford shoes/pedals, probably couldn't comfortably afford the bike in the first place. Affordable shoes and pedals are out there and make riding so much more comfortable, as do good road shorts.


Thanks for all the useful insight. Cost isn't the issue. For me it's more a matter of convenience. I ride mostly in the downtown area where I would need to clip out and back in at every stop, which is practically every block. Many might disagree, but I don't see any advantage of going clipless in that instance since I barely top out at 20mph before I have to slow down for a stop sign/light. Also I have to walk my bike in areas where cycling is not permitted and I heard road cleats are hard to walk in. I ordered a set of both SPD and SPD-SL pedals/shoes to give each a try before I dismiss clipless (can't knock it until I try it). Worst case scenario: I can always use my platforms for rush hour traffic and switch over to clipless if I'm going to ride a century.


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## AndrwSwitch (May 28, 2009)

At risk of being the snob discussed in this thread, why get a Cervelo?

I have a $95 bike I use for downtown riding, commuting, errands, etc. Speed in a city is dictated by how well the rider sprints and how suicidal he is. Not that I don't occasionally use my nicer bikes for commuting too, especially if I'm going to go on a "real" ride later in the day, but it makes almost no difference in time, certainly less than random variations in my luck with traffic signals and things. And I can't leave them locked to a shopping cart rack outside a grocery store. IME, commute bikes get hammered. They're exposed to worse roads, more hops up and down curbs, accident, vandalism, worse weather... maybe nothing that doesn't happen to people's competition bikes, but a lot of people replace their competition bikes every couple of years, or every year (sometimes more) for pros. The cheap one is the one that's going to be destroyed on behalf of my nice ones.

FWIW, my commuter has pedals with toe clips. The fun bikes all get clipless pedals.


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## spade2you (May 12, 2009)

teflondog said:


> Thanks for all the useful insight. Cost isn't the issue. For me it's more a matter of convenience. I ride mostly in the downtown area where I would need to clip out and back in at every stop, which is practically every block. Many might disagree, but I don't see any advantage of going clipless in that instance since I barely top out at 20mph before I have to slow down for a stop sign/light. Also I have to walk my bike in areas where cycling is not permitted and I heard road cleats are hard to walk in. I ordered a set of both SPD and SPD-SL pedals/shoes to give each a try before I dismiss clipless (can't knock it until I try it). Worst case scenario: I can always use my platforms for rush hour traffic and switch over to clipless if I'm going to ride a century.


A beast like your Cervelo in stop and go traffic is like getting a full suspension MTB to take on highways or cruising a Porsche at 20mph through school zones. 

Needless to say, I do my best to avoid riding in conditions like that. A frequent route of mine doesn't have a single stop for more than 10 miles. I live in a cycling unfriendly city, so I do my best to get the freak out of dodge. 

Going clipless is pure function over snobbery. Been clipless for about a decade and no desire to go back. With my developed pedal stroke, virtually impossible to maintain my cadence and power with just a downstroke. I also ride enough that my foot needs to be int the right spot every time I pedal to avoid knee pain.


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## teflondog (Aug 23, 2011)

I got a Cervelo because I really like how it looks and the way it fits me. I could have bought a more basic bike that fits just as well, but it's like shopping for a car. I'd rather buy a Lexus instead of a Camry even though they both provide reliable transportation. It's a preference thing, fueled mainly by image I admit. The Cervelo was on clearance too so I couldn't pass up a good deal. I thought about getting a cheaper bike for city riding and saving the Cervelo for longer rides, but that would mean that I wouldn't ride the Cervelo as much. I ride for recreation so I'm not going to race or compete. I just like having a sweet ride because it motivates me to ride more.


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## ziscwg (Apr 19, 2010)

spade2you said:


> Ditch the MTB baggies. If you have image issues, ride more.
> 
> As to the Cervelo and platforms, it's one of the nice bikes out there and far from cheap. If you can't afford shoes/pedals, probably couldn't comfortably afford the bike in the first place. Affordable shoes and pedals are out there and make riding so much more comfortable, as do good road shorts.
> 
> Camel Baks just not as feasible on long road rides. Sure, it seems nice to have ~3L of ice cold water, but if you properly hydrate before and use the right stuff while riding, you'd be surprised how far you can go on 2 bottles of an electrolyte mix.


You can go 3 with the last in the jersey center pocket. Switch it out when first one on the bike is empty. I can get 60-70 mi on 3, solo, with no stops and 5000 footies.


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## ziscwg (Apr 19, 2010)

teflondog said:


> I got a Cervelo because I really like how it looks and the way it fits me. I could have bought a more basic bike that fits just as well, but it's like shopping for a car. I'd rather buy a Lexus instead of a Camry even though they both provide reliable transportation. It's a preference thing, fueled mainly by image I admit. The Cervelo was on clearance too so I couldn't pass up a good deal. I thought about getting a cheaper bike for city riding and saving the Cervelo for longer rides, but that would mean that I wouldn't ride the Cervelo as much. I ride for recreation so I'm not going to race or compete. I just like having a sweet ride because it motivates me to ride more.


You don't really have to justify your purchase to us. *You* have to be happy with it. If you just love how it looks, cool. 

It does sound under utilized right now. But hey, you could jump into centuries in a few months and travel to ride them. 

It sounds like the mtb spds will do great for you in the city. Remember, each stop sign or light is the start of a short race. Jump on it off the line. 

Have fun with your rig and ride hard!!


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## config (Aug 16, 2002)

Emdee406 said:


> I took the plunge and went on my first group ride tonight. When I turned up and made smalltalk with a small but friendly part of the large group of 20 or so riders, I felt a little intimidated when I noticed my bike was the ONLY non-carbon bike in sight and I was the only one still in toeclips (sadly my shoe/clip budget had to be diverted to a channel saddle to preserve feeling in my Ol' Fella). I saw so many bikes whose groupsets not only cost more than my bike plus Fizik saddle, but more than my Explorer!
> 
> The "no-drop" ride was tougher than I expected, this was the Summer's last session and they had been riding together since Memorial Day, so fitness levels were high. I'm a sprinter, I discovered as I labored on the long gradual climbs but gained respect when the group was split by a red light. Not sure what was best, I sprinted after the leading group at 30+mph, caught them and apparently pulled the 2nd group along. Comments of 'nice riding' , 'awesome' and 'well done' rang out and my chest swelled...before it exploded on the next climb!
> 
> ...


 You did AWESOME considering this was your first group ride and their last summer ride! All group rides love to be able to drop the new guy. It somewhat justifies all the miles they've ridden (and the cost they spent on their bike). Keep riding with them because deep down inside most of of them are envious that you did so well. Once you can hang with them with your non-carbon bike (and toe-clips), they will hate you even more but you will gain a whole lot of respect (intimidated by your presence not your bike). They may never tell you that though. Keep riding - awesome job!


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## Emdee406 (Aug 23, 2011)

@Config - Thanks! just got shoes and clip-in pedals yesterday in the sales, can't wait to try 'em!


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## config (Aug 16, 2002)

Emdee406 said:


> @Config - Thanks! just got shoes and clip-in pedals yesterday in the sales, can't wait to try 'em!


I was about to say, I have some old Ritchey (SPD) pedals and cleats I no longer use. Used them for about a year until my friends talked me into getting Speedplays. I prefer using MTB shoes (for ease of walking). They're free and could use a new owner who'll ride them.


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## taralon (Sep 1, 2011)

Although not quite on the same level, I used platform/spd mountain bike pedals for the first month I had my new Secteur. Got quite a few strange looks. Still get them when I pull up to a coffee shop now that I've switched to double sided spd pedals, because I'm walking around in my mtb shoes. 

I had someone ask me the other day why I did that, and my answer of "because I won't skate and fall on my butt on tile, and if necessary I can throw the bike on my shoulder and hike a couple miles home without crippling myself" seemed to intrigue them. 

My thoughts are, ride what you like and enjoy yourself.


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## Emdee406 (Aug 23, 2011)

config said:


> I was about to say, I have some old Ritchey (SPD) pedals and cleats I no longer use. Used them for about a year until my friends talked me into getting Speedplays. I prefer using MTB shoes (for ease of walking). They're free and could use a new owner who'll ride them.


I would have taken you up on that super kind offer if I hadn't already got mine. Maybe another newbie on the Beginner Forum could use them. 
Funny enough I did get MTB-style shoes for the same reason you and Taralon did, glad I'm in good company!


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## Natedogz (Aug 25, 2010)

heathb said:


> If you don't like your LBS and I'm one of those. I just do all my own wrenching, and buy everything online.
> 
> The cost of shopping at a LBS is usually 50% higher then online. I'm not into throwing my money down the toilet and I've learned over the years that I trust my own work a lot more than guys who wrench their own bikes to perfection, but don't go to those same lengths for customers.
> 
> ...


I do most my own bike work, saves money and I know it's done right. More than once friends and I have had work done at LBS and then find that bolts were not torqued, parts assembled incorrectly etc.

I buy some stuff online because it's so much cheaper and as this thread title says, too many LBS are staffed/owned by bike snobs. Sorry I have a house payment, car payment, and all of life's other bills to pay....and too many hobbies. 

There are several LBS in my area that I will never buy anything from after how they treated me when I called or stopped in to buy parts, tools, supplements, etc.!


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## Emdee406 (Aug 23, 2011)

I find it sad, but not surprising, that so many LBS's insist on shooting themselves in the foot. As they say "Karma is a b*tch", and they will continue to drive potential customers online as this forum proves...sad. We'll see how long they can survive relying on their equally elitist clients.


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## spade2you (May 12, 2009)

Emdee406 said:


> I find it sad, but not surprising, that so many LBS's insist on shooting themselves in the foot. As they say "Karma is a b*tch", and they will continue to drive potential customers online as this forum proves...sad. We'll see how long they can survive relying on their equally elitist clients.


You gotta understand that dealing with people sucks and I don't envy anyone who works at a bike shop. First of all, bikes are toys and shouldn't cost more than $100. Second, I'm really just here to try out the bike so I can buy it online. Third, can you fix this old Wal-Mart bike and make it run as well as something like this new Bianchi that I'm too cheap to buy? Fourth, so, I want to start riding triathlons, how much are those bikes? They're how much?! I guess I'm not going to do a triathlon. 

Now do this for several years and see how chipper you are consistently.


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## dklimek (Sep 21, 2011)

I've had alot of my friends give me crap because I bought a cheap single speed (mongoose cachet) as my first cross over from mountain bikes. My local bike shop has been awesome, and VERY helpful....alot of the guys my age were more rude, as if I'm treading on THEIR trend :lol:


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## SlowMike (Aug 21, 2011)

spade2you said:


> You gotta understand that dealing with people sucks and I don't envy anyone who works at a bike shop. First of all, bikes are toys and shouldn't cost more than $100. Second, I'm really just here to try out the bike so I can buy it online. Third, can you fix this old Wal-Mart bike and make it run as well as something like this new Bianchi that I'm too cheap to buy? Fourth, so, I want to start riding triathlons, how much are those bikes? They're how much?! I guess I'm not going to do a triathlon.
> 
> Now do this for several years and see how chipper you are consistently.


Working in retail sucks no matter what the business. On the other hand if they're so world-weary that they refuse to seriously deal with anyone who doesn't have shaved legs or isn't wearing white framed Oakleys, then they should close their businesses down. 

I recently moved to your fair city (or close enough). We can't get over how friendly everyone is in Omaha compared to the East Coast. That is until I started hitting the LBSs. Five stores, completely ignored in two, ran into a cranky old tool in the third, and was treated like a real customer in the other two. That's a hell of a business model these folks have considering that they're selling recreational equipment,


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## spade2you (May 12, 2009)

SlowMike said:


> Working in retail sucks no matter what the business. On the other hand if they're so world-weary that they refuse to seriously deal with anyone who doesn't have shaved legs or isn't wearing white framed Oakleys, then they should close their businesses down.
> 
> I recently moved to your fair city (or close enough). We can't get over how friendly everyone is in Omaha compared to the East Coast. That is until I started hitting the LBSs. Five stores, completely ignored in two, ran into a cranky old tool in the third, and was treated like a real customer in the other two. That's a hell of a business model these folks have considering that they're selling recreational equipment,


If you ran into a cranky old tool, I know exactly who you're talking about and he probably smelled!! I deal with that shop, but not him. 

In Omaha especially, cycling isn't even recreational by the general public. More like couch potato equipment since most sit in a garage and collect dust or outside and collect rust. 

I'm not justifying their attitude, but having seen so much crap, mostly the uber cheapskates, I don't think I'd be too enthusiastic dealing with customers.


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## SlowMike (Aug 21, 2011)

spade2you said:


> If you ran into a cranky old tool, I know exactly who you're talking about and he probably smelled!! I deal with that shop, but not him.
> 
> *In Omaha especially, cycling isn't even recreational by the general public. More like couch potato equipment since most sit in a garage and collect dust or outside and collect rust. *
> 
> I'm not justifying their attitude, but having seen so much crap, mostly the uber cheapskates, I don't think I'd be too enthusiastic dealing with customers.


Which is a damned shame considering the excellent bike path system they have here. Those paths are a perfect place for me to get my cycling legs back and enjoy the twice weekly very slow ride with the Mrs. We bought her hybrid at the Papillion Trek store. The place has a somewhat big box/retail feel to it, but they were actually very good with her. Good thing we visited that place first...she tends to take being snubbed by snotty salespeople very badly.

I guess you would know who/where I was talking about considering that you're a Bianchi owner (lucky man!).


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## Emdee406 (Aug 23, 2011)

spade2you said:


> You gotta understand that dealing with people sucks and I don't envy anyone who works at a bike shop. First of all, bikes are toys and shouldn't cost more than $100. Second, I'm really just here to try out the bike so I can buy it online. Third, can you fix this old Wal-Mart bike and make it run as well as something like this new Bianchi that I'm too cheap to buy? Fourth, so, I want to start riding triathlons, how much are those bikes? They're how much?! I guess I'm not going to do a triathlon.
> 
> Now do this for several years and see how chipper you are consistently.


With all due respect I have spent 20 years in Snowboard/Ski retail, so believe me I understand how they could be feeling! We suffer from the same 4 points you mention (not Triathlons, but competing in Park/Pipe/going to be the next Shaun White). It is at least the same, perhaps worse as at least 3/4 of the potential clients are teenagers...say no more!
But...you can still do your job without talking to people like dirt, you should get the same courtesy if you are buying an inner tube as a TT bike IMHO...as long as you don't act like a horse's arse.


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## spade2you (May 12, 2009)

Emdee406 said:


> With all due respect I have spent 20 years in Snowboard/Ski retail, so believe me I understand how they could be feeling! We suffer from the same 4 points you mention (not Triathlons, but competing in Park/Pipe/going to be the next Shaun White). It is at least the same, perhaps worse as at least 3/4 of the potential clients are teenagers...say no more!
> But...you can still do your job without talking to people like dirt, you should get the same courtesy if you are buying an inner tube as a TT bike IMHO...as long as you don't act like a horse's arse.


Snowboards aren't bikes. Work in a bike shop for a while and you'll see the frustration. Most shops are simply fighting a losing battle because online seems better to the cheapskate general public. I'm no snob, but I don't deal well with losing battles.


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## velocanman (Jul 15, 2011)

I think I've already stated that i don't work in a shop, but try to drive as much business as I can to our LBSs.

Business is about customer service. I am working with the shops that care about business to offer clinics and other venues to pull the community back into the shop. It is hard for the shops to compete with online retail, so there has to be added value in the experience. The people at the shop should be part of that experience, draw, and value.

If not, you are just driving away more business while blaming it on internet retail.


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## Emdee406 (Aug 23, 2011)

spade2you said:


> Snowboards aren't bikes. Work in a bike shop for a while and you'll see the frustration. Most shops are simply fighting a losing battle because online seems better to the cheapskate general public. I'm no snob, but I don't deal well with losing battles.


The customers are more similar than you think, we have EXACTLY the same problem. They come in, get expert advice from you, say thanks and then get on the cheap websites. I'm sure many industries have the same problem.


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## Emdee406 (Aug 23, 2011)

velocanman said:


> I think I've already stated that i don't work in a shop, but try to drive as much business as I can to our LBSs.
> 
> Business is about customer service. I am working with the shops that care about business to offer clinics and other venues to pull the community back into the shop. It is hard for the shops to compete with online retail, so there has to be added value in the experience. The people at the shop should be part of that experience, draw, and value.
> 
> If not, you are just driving away more business while blaming it on internet retail.


Well said!


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## PlatyPius (Feb 1, 2009)

Emdee406 said:


> With all due respect I have spent 20 years in Snowboard/Ski retail, so believe me I understand how they could be feeling! We suffer from the same 4 points you mention (not Triathlons, but competing in Park/Pipe/going to be the next Shaun White). It is at least the same, perhaps worse as at least 3/4 of the potential clients are teenagers...say no more!
> But...you can still do your job without talking to people like dirt, you should get the same courtesy if you are buying an inner tube as a TT bike IMHO*...as long as you don't act like a horse's arse.*



Important part in bold.

My attitude in the shop directly relates to the customer's attitude. If the person is cheap but cool, they get my best service. If they come in with an attitude of "you're going to rip me off but I need you", they get slightly less than my most friendly attitude. I don't get very many of the second one - most people in my town know I'm not going to rip them off. I tend toward the other extreme at times and have customers force me to take more money for parts or service.


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## config (Aug 16, 2002)

PlatyPius said:


> Important part in bold.
> 
> My attitude in the shop directly relates to the customer's attitude. If the person is cheap but cool, they get my best service. If they come in with an attitude of "you're going to rip me off but I need you", they get slightly less than my most friendly attitude. I don't get very many of the second one - most people in my town know I'm not going to rip them off. I tend toward the other extreme at times and have customers force me to take more money for parts or service.


I move around a lot in my job so usually when I visit a bike shop for the first time, I'm merely checking it out. I don't usually need anything yet since it's usually before we even take delivery of our household items. The shops who always have my business are the ones I can strike a friendly conversation with even after I tell them I don't really need anything from them yet. Other shops I find simply ignore me after I give them the standard "I'm just browsing" response, or answer back with a short, "yes", "no". I never go back to those shops. I look at it that those shops just want a sale and nothing else. Fortunately, I've found more of the '"friendly" stores than of the other kind. Unfortunately, in other places (countries) there's a huge communication gap I have to get over first but it usually doesn't affect me that much. 

I love visiting bike shops.


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## robdamanii (Feb 13, 2006)

After reading the thread and pondering I have to ask...

What is it with people getting all butt hurt by supposed "roadie snobbery?" There's snobbery and people who look down on others in all walks of life, from work to play. If we get all pissed off and upset every time someone gives us attitude "we don't deserve" (in quotes due to the fact that many people get an attitude because they go through life with an attitude of their own) we'll spend a lot of time at home, angrily typing on the computer about how life isn't fair and people are mean.

Oh well, that's what the internet is for...."slandering others anonymously."


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## RkFast (Dec 11, 2004)

I dont understand where this idea of snobbery comes from. There is some of that in all walks of life, but the guys and gals I ride with regularly are all nice and friendly and we have a good time. Same thing with general people on the roads and trails.


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## robdamanii (Feb 13, 2006)

RkFast said:


> I dont understand where this idea of snobbery comes from. There is some of that in all walks of life, but the guys and gals I ride with regularly are all nice and friendly and we have a good time. Same thing with general people on the roads and trails.


Maybe it's because we don't wave.


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## PlatyPius (Feb 1, 2009)

config said:


> I move around a lot in my job so usually when I visit a bike shop for the first time, I'm merely checking it out. I don't usually need anything yet since it's usually before we even take delivery of our household items. The shops who always have my business are the ones I can strike a friendly conversation with even after I tell them I don't really need anything from them yet. Other shops I find simply ignore me after I give them the standard "I'm just browsing" response, or answer back with a short, "yes", "no". I never go back to those shops. I look at it that those shops just want a sale and nothing else. Fortunately, I've found more of the '"friendly" stores than of the other kind. Unfortunately, in other places (countries) there's a huge communication gap I have to get over first but it usually doesn't affect me that much.
> 
> I love visiting bike shops.


I love visiting bike shops too. Or rather, I used to. I don't have the time now.

I get several touring cyclists in here every year - I'm only a few miles from US40. I don't expect tourists to buy much, if anything. They're usually good for stories, though.

With a somewhat prestigious university here, I get parents in the store during parent weekends, alumni functions, and such. Often, they're just looking at things and reliving their college days and the bikes they had. So, we'll talk about bikes from obscure or defunct brands, components that lasted forever, and they'll get a tour of my 'cool stuff' that I have hidden away, such as a SunTour Superbe group, NOS Campy parts, etc.

Sadly, the bike shop IS my social life. I enjoy it, though.


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## AndrwSwitch (May 28, 2009)

I'm generally happy enough to be left alone if I'm just browsing. As long as someone is available to answer questions if I need it, I'm good.


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## spade2you (May 12, 2009)

robdamanii said:


> Maybe it's because we don't wave.


Speaking of that, one day I was practicing for an upcoming ITT. I waved to a ton of non-racers and not a single one waved back. By the end, I was almost laughing that nobody was waving back even though I was very deep in the pain cave and sweat was pouring out of my helmet. On the climb, I about got hit by another rider who was riding so erratically that I was still at risk despite being on the other side of the yellow line.


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## Oxtox (Aug 16, 2006)

jeez, this whinefest still going on...?

the whole concept of 'snobbery' is laughable. when you cut to the bottom line, elitist and arrogant is still more tolerable than sniveling and wimpy.

being personally offended because someone doesn't treat you like royalty in a retail shop or doesn't wave to you on the road indicates you have a problem with self-esteem.

probably ought to work on that instead of some other guy's issues.


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## spade2you (May 12, 2009)

Oxtox said:


> jeez, this whinefest still going on...?
> 
> the whole concept of 'snobbery' is laughable. when you cut to the bottom line, elitist and arrogant is still more tolerable than sniveling and wimpy.
> 
> ...


Match point.

If you want to get treated like royalty by an LBS, buy something AND ride a lot. If you want local riders to treat you with respect, develop skills and demonstrate that you can safely hold your own in a paceline. I don't think either of these are difficult requirements.


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## cmanbrazil (Sep 7, 2011)

All of this is fresh for me, since I have went to about ten shops in my area looking for my next bike. I also fit many profiles discriminated against, 5'8" 220, African American, make under $75k, etc. However, I have always had at least one person at every shop treat me well. That's not to state there probably haven't been people in the shops that have looked at me and dismissed me, but I have payed them as much attention as they have paid me. I tend to focus only on the ones that are willing to help, and I have had quite a few.

I live in Columbus Ohio btw. I was at the trek store on lane ave. this morning for a sidewalk sell they had. I went there the previous week and the guy practically pushed me out the door and told me to wait until the sale so that I could save money. He also told me how he lost over thirty pounds riding his bike to work, after i told him my weight loss goals. I went there this morning and bought a lot of gear both new and used at great discounts.

The Roll store a block away fitted me for a bike with their custom machine, and told me they would call me when the 2012's in my size came in, because they were all out of 2011's. When they called me two weeks later, I had already traded in two bikes at another store as a downpayment on a 2011 defy advanced 3. I was by the store and stopped in to tell the guy that, and he talked to me about a half an hour about my decision on the 2011 vs the 2012 defy advanced comp 2. He then invited me several times on their group rides, even though I wasn't buying the bike from them. 

All of the other stores were decent, although not to this degree. They store where i am buying my bike gave me a good deal on my trade in's, and searched for the 2011 bike with their distributers until they found one- and they are a small shop. Thy are even going to let me come in and watch them put it together. 

I have promised myself that I am going to return to the shops that stood out and buy something. The only problem I have is that their mark up is often so high, that I can't afford to shop there on my budget. What I would really love to pay for though is lessons. I like being offered to go on group rides, but lessons are better. How do you shift gears? What is cadence? How do you change a tire? It amazes me how classes are not offered for buyers at a cost. It would relieve a lot of newbie tension. 

My experience is mine alone though, and I am not trying to deny the poor experience of others. I have faced enough racism, classic," shortism," in my life to know that these things exist.


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## velocanman (Jul 15, 2011)

cmanbrazil;3574007 What I would really love to pay for though is lessons. I like being offered to go on group rides said:


> cmanb, I recommend you go back to your favorite shop, or hit the Facebook or web page for your local bike club, and ask the same questions. Cyclists really like to help new cyclists, and knowing there is someone out there interested, will go out of their way to help you.
> 
> For example: We recently held a clinic at one of the bike shops to demonstrate how to use the CO2 cartridge inflators for road-side repairs. (I got the idea after meeting a semi-pro triathlete waiting for a ride at the gas station because she wasted both her CO2s through improper use. I figured if she didn't know how to do it, how many other riders out there have not practiced it?). In our little town we had a dozen riders show up that really weren't sure how to use their inflator, and I'm sure they all learned something. Bottom line, you aren't the only one there looking for help.
> 
> Ask around and you will quickly meet a group of experienced riders willing to help, and a group of new riders at your level. If not, check back with us and we will hook you up!


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## hitek (Mar 13, 2006)

I pick bike shops that I deal with, by how they treat my wife (non biker) when I need her to pick a item up for me. She will tell me if she thought she was treat well and if I should give them my business.

Just because they don't have your bike knowledge doesn't mean that they need to be treated nice.

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## votoms888 (Sep 14, 2011)

I was in retail for many years. I sold BMW's for 9 years, did it well and made lots of money. So yes, I have dealt with my fair share of lookie loos, tire kickers, ignorant people, etc. and never was my attitude far from friendly and personable. So please don't make excuses for any of these losers who own, run, or work at the local LBS and treat people like pooh. Especially in today's economic climate. Lessons learned very early in my retail career taught me never to judge a book by it's cover. 

I understand having to the "royal treatment" but come on, doesn't everyone deserve friendly, reasonable service when they walk in to their LBS or any retail establishment? I have no tolerance for the kind of snobbery or unfriendly service being discussed here as I was in the service industry, still am actually. =D 

If you don't feel comfortable in that store and they don't treat you like you want, move on. Let them try and figure out why they can't make the monthly rent payment or why their sales are down. I guarantee you they will never realize its because they lost out on the thousands of dollars in sales from the "average joe". =P They should also realize that the average customers may very well spend more money than the elite customers. Pretty sure it's alot more common to sell a sub $1k roadbike than a $4k roadbike. Is it not? 

Just my opinion, thanks for listening (reading). Please also forgive my grammar...as my new job involves me communicating in another language. It's kind of funny as my spoken english is deteriorating even though it's my first language. :mad2:

BTW: If you are looking for a great LBS in the Burnaby/Vancouver area check out Jubilee Cycles in the Metrotown Area. I went there with my wife to find her a bike and they were super patient and very helpful. We did not buy a bike there that day but returned the next day to make the purchase.


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## velocanman (Jul 15, 2011)

PlatyPius said:


> I love visiting bike shops too. Or rather, I used to. I don't have the time now.
> 
> I get several touring cyclists in here every year - I'm only a few miles from US40. I don't expect tourists to buy much, if anything. They're usually good for stories, though.
> 
> ...


Appreciate hearing your perspective from the retail side of the fence.


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## paredown (Oct 18, 2006)

votoms888 said:


> BTW: If you are looking for a great LBS in the Burnaby/Vancouver area check out Jubilee Cycles in the Metrotown Area. I went there with my wife to find her a bike and they were super patient and very helpful. We did not buy a bike there that day but returned the next day to make the purchase.


Wow--there's a name I haven't thought about for years--Jim Davies was one of the "old" riders when I was racing in Vancouver back in the day, and I used to drop in on him when I was repping for Norco--Jim used to ride a lot with Lorne Atkinson of Ace Cycles, who was about the same generation of rider.

Super nice guy, and the kids were still pretty young when I used to drop in--great to see it is still a family run shop. (Just checked the web site--cool that the son got to win on the last day of racing at China Creek--it was a black day when they tore that track down....)


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## Kai Winters (Aug 23, 2009)

What it boils down to is respect for the customer and courtesy.
Any business that wants to stay in business and grow must have these as the top priority.
I've worked in two bike shops, 10 years in each, as part time sales, wrench then full time wrench and service manager. Both shops made it a point to treat each person with respect and courtesy...based on that methodology one shop is a third generation owned and the other is second generation owned and both are thriving.
I've also been in most of the shops in the region and those that do the best also treat customers and potential customers that way.

Have you voiced your complaint to the manager/owner? If not, why not? I'd be pissed if someone in my employ treated someone in that manner...lost sales, bad reputation that is hard to recover from, etc. That employee would be spoken to and possibly let go.

I've nearly always gone to the manager to voice a complaint when treated poorly by a salesperson, etc. Sometimes management has no clue this is going on and welcomes the complaint as an opportunity...that is a store worth supporting...other managers blow me off...not a wise thing to do as the pen is mightier than the sword and I am pretty good at wielding it.

The internet is a wonderful tool and weapon too. Rather than use the old "I'll complain to the better business bureau" I usually tell the miserable manager that I'll post in the local blogs, newspaper forums, the cities facebook page, etc. That gets much more response hehehe if the manager/owner has any brains that is.

If I'm treated poorly I will say as I'm walking out the door "watch the money go to your competitor", "bubye".


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## ziscwg (Apr 19, 2010)

hitek said:


> I pick bike shops that I deal with, by how they treat my wife (non biker) when I need her to pick a item up for me. She will tell me if she thought she was treat well and if I should give them my business.
> 
> Just because they don't have your bike knowledge doesn't mean that they need to be treated nice.
> 
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Damn!!!!!!!!!!!!! Your wife will do this. Mine will laugh unless she knows there's a good mani/pedi shop right next door.


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## hitek (Mar 13, 2006)

ziscwg said:


> Damn!!!!!!!!!!!!! Your wife will do this. Mine will laugh unless she knows there's a good mani/pedi shop right next door.


I have to beg a little, and if she likes the shop. And most I deal with have a coffee shop so that helps

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## cmanbrazil (Sep 7, 2011)

If my wife goes into the bike shop, then she will get an idea of what i'm spending.:nono:


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## tate (Sep 19, 2011)

from what ivee seen there is all kinds of people in every sport out. some are good some are bad for the sport. as i just start road biking pretty much give a slight wave to anybody. if they want to wave back thats even better. dont take it to crazy. enjoy the time on the bike. jmo


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