# BHS hubs - which corners are being cut?



## 9W9W (Apr 5, 2012)

I searched the boards for this but nothing came up for these keywords (both in singular and plural form), so here goes: 

I'm getting a pair of wheels built to replace the stock low end Mavic's that came with my bike. The builder sources from BHS and is leaning towards SL218's. MY question is really pretty basic, if not vague: Why do BHS hubs cost a third of the next best thing? Which corners are being cut? I can' help to shake the idea that they are bargain basement priced and will eat themselves in a two or three years. A 1 year/season warranty doesn't inspire confidence. 

On paper the 218's have upgraded bearings (2 x 6802, 2 x 6902) over the 211's (I've read some gripes about this elsewhere) and slightly better flange spacing, 
SL218 Rear Hub - 213 grams so R&D is being done to stay competitive, I guess. Still, $70 for a hub? 

mileage: 1.5-2K per year
build: Kinlin 279's, 24/28, x-ray, brass nip, can't remember suggested DS spoke type if alternate and lacing 

Thanks guys!


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## carlislegeorge (Mar 28, 2004)

I believe they're just another branded version of somewhat generic chinese hubs. I was searching a lot in the "generic chinese carbon wheel" threads and I came across the OEM brand name somewhere. You can get similar quality and similar prices with slightly different or tailorable specs. Search on terms like Bitex or Novatec. Most folks understand you get what you pay for in terms of materials and bearings etc. I probably would've got my hubs from BHS (is where I bought spokes), just didn't like the rear hub sound they made.


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## 9W9W (Apr 5, 2012)

Hmm. Thanks for the reply.


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## xjbaylor (Dec 28, 2006)

In short, they are generic. That is neither good nor bad. I have a lot of wheelsets, two of those are build on generic hubs, one on the SL218 rear. They function perfectly, engage quickly and sound fine. I prefer my Chris King, P321, Hope and WI hubs, but not by much and largely because I think they are pretty. I greatly prefer the SL218 to my American Classic rear hub, which has dreadfully slow engagement. 

In the end the QC may be a little below that of the well known manufacturers, but many people are using those hubs on this board, and I have not heard of even one problem. You should be just fine.


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## SBH1973 (Nov 21, 2002)

Hubs don't have many corners - mostly round bits and pieces.


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## Enoch562 (May 13, 2010)

I have built a few of the BHS hubs and have not had any issue. If you look around, you'll find alot of smaller wheel builders are using these or similar hubs. I have yet to see any broken flanges or cracked hubs. Bearing can be replaced, so can free hubs if something does go bad. Are they high end hubs? certainely not, but they are good hubs at a very reasonable price. I can build 2 sets of wheels for what name brand wheels would cost.


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## strathconaman (Jul 3, 2003)

The BHS hubs also use Enduro bearings. 

With most bike parts, you can get 90% of the performance for 30% of the price or 100% of the performance for 100% of the price.


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## c_h_i_n_a_m_a_n (Mar 3, 2012)

I have been using the SLF85W & SL211 hubs with the XR19W rims. Done about 800 miles to date and they have been very good. About the same weight as Dura-Ace wheels I think, but no where close to it in terms of price.

Been through pot holes and gravel roads. Rims and hub held up well to date. I could not tell the difference between the 'SL' and Hope hubs that I was using prior to this. In fact, the engagement is quicker on the 'SL's.

http://forums.roadbikereview.com/wheels-tires/my-first-road-wheel-build-281543.html


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## bwbishop (Sep 17, 2011)

The hubs are made in Taiwan, not China, and they are so cheap because there are straight from a manufacturer and don't have the cost of advertising, sponsoring pro teams... custom super-duper awesome trademarked logos...

The design of the hubs have changed over the last few years and appear to be getting better (i.e. better geometry). I can't think of anyone who says anything negative about the hubs (from those folks who actually own them anyways).


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## bwbishop (Sep 17, 2011)

carlislegeorge said:


> I believe they're just another branded version of somewhat generic chinese hubs. I was searching a lot in the "generic chinese carbon wheel" threads and I came across the OEM brand name somewhere.


The brand name is Qualita, btw (Qualita)


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## Mike T. (Feb 3, 2004)

carlislegeorge said:


> I probably would've got my hubs from BHS (is where I bought spokes), just didn't like the rear hub sound they made.


You do realize that you can tailor the hub sound and especially the intensity by the type and amount of lube? Don't like "noisy" Oriental hubs? Re-lube them. With most of them that takes two minutes tops. I could do it roadside if I had lube with me. Want 'em loud - use a bit of thin oil. Want 'em quiet - use thin grease.


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## c_h_i_n_a_m_a_n (Mar 3, 2012)

I thought the 'SL' hubs from BHS were very quiet ... this is coming from someone who only uses Hope hubs on my MTBs.


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## yoshirama (Oct 18, 2012)

The BHS hubs are made in Taiwan and are essentially clones of Circus Monkey hubs. The bearings are upgraded with US-made Enduro bearings (solves a problem that Circus Monkey hubs have - dried out bearings) and the freehub has 6 six pawls instead of 3. The entire construction is aluminum including the axle, so you may want to reconsider using those hubs if you're a heavyset guy. Otherwise those are an awesome deal.


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## TomH (Oct 6, 2008)

Circus monkey hubs are from chosen I believe. BHS isnt from chosen (I dont think they're from qualita either, that looks like another company who puts stickers on someone elses product). BHS also isnt from bitex, which I verified with the owner. Hes got his own source for hubs, all though they are dimensionally similar to bitex (the freehub springs arent though, they're better than bitex).

Really for what its worth, the BHS hubs are BHS hubs, they're not something you can really buy somewhere else too easily. 

While the bearings are enduro bearings, they're the economy line and not exactly a high end bearing. They're not bad by any means, but dont expect DT swiss quality bearings or anything. For the price its a very acceptable bearing. If you wear them out, a high quality stainless steel upgrade is about 30 bucks.

I run thick oil in mine to make them as loud as possible. The wind noise at speed is louder than the hub. When cruising around at low speed, they're loud enough to let people know you're behind them. They're by no means obnoxious, and using grease instead makes them even quieter. 

Ive also found the freehub aluminum VERY hard. I run a loose cog cassette and it has almost no wear or dig marks, even using a 28t cassette.


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## Zampano (Aug 7, 2005)

SBH1973 said:


> Hubs don't have many corners - mostly round bits and pieces.




Bearing alignment might be considered a metaphorical corner cut.


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## bwbishop (Sep 17, 2011)

They are most definitely the same products that BHS sells. If Qualita doesn't make them directly, they are certainly the distributor.

Unless someone else can find a website where the products match exactly, I'm going with Qualita as the manufacturer. 

BHS Dati: DATI Hubs
Qualita: Qualita

BHS UL Carbon: UltraLight Carbon Straight Pull Rear Hub
Qualita: Qualita

BHS 218: SL218 Rear Hub - 213 grams
Qualita: Qualita


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## TomH (Oct 6, 2008)

Unless you have them both in your hands, disassembled, I wouldnt make that assumption. Check out bitex's site. They look the same, same dimensions, same weight... internally they're slightly different and BHS hubs arent from bitex. Check out moyons site too, same thing. Theres a few others I dont remember off the top of my head. 

Taiwanese business is *very* different than US business. Qualita doesnt look like a manufacturer of anything, just another reseller. This is very common practice in Taiwan.


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## biker jk (Dec 5, 2012)

bwbishop said:


> They are most definitely the same products that BHS sells. If Qualita doesn't make them directly, they are certainly the distributor.
> 
> Unless someone else can find a website where the products match exactly, I'm going with Qualita as the manufacturer.
> 
> ...


The BHS SL218 is not shaped like the Qualita hub you linked. The hub shell is cone shaped (wider on the drive side and narrows to non-drive side). It's not a RAR13 but a RAR12 (see Bitex site).


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## GRAVELBIKE (Sep 16, 2011)

Enoch562 said:


> I have built a few of the BHS hubs and have not had any issue. If you look around, you'll find alot of smaller wheel builders are using these or similar hubs. I have yet to see any broken flanges or cracked hubs. Bearing can be replaced, so can free hubs if something does go bad. Are they high end hubs? certainely not, but they are good hubs at a very reasonable price. I can build 2 sets of wheels for what name brand wheels would cost.


This ^^^

My take on the hubs:
First Impressions: BikeHubStore.com Hubset | GRAVELBIKE.com


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## carlosflanders (Nov 23, 2008)

xjbaylor said:


> In the end the QC may be a little below that of the well known manufacturers, but many people are using those hubs on this board, and I have not heard of even one problem. You should be just fine.


I had to throw away one front hub. Terrible wobble after I laced it up. Couldn't figure out what was wrong until I opened them up. Bearings slid out by hand. That's skipping QC. Shells way out of tolerance.

I've laced up three rear wheels with BHS hubs and been very happy. Don't really trust the front hubs - even the ones that didn't wobble felt a bit noodly. I have another build coming up with some BHS hubs I bought about 18 months ago. They're cheap, so I'm really just losing my build time if anything goes wrong.


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## 32and3cross (Feb 28, 2005)

Interested to see what people's take would be for a 183lbs rider using these for cyclocross, considering they use an Alu rear axle.


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## adam_mac84 (Sep 22, 2010)

Ive ridden them in 24 cx races and a gravel race this past season. 195#


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## GRAVELBIKE (Sep 16, 2011)

I weigh 195# and routinely ride mine off-pavement (with 28mm tires).


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## 32and3cross (Feb 28, 2005)

Thanks for the info. Sounds like the only issue is the QC on the front hubs mentioned earlier then.


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## Mike T. (Feb 3, 2004)

32and3cross said:


> Thanks for the info. Sounds like the only issue is the QC on the front hubs mentioned earlier then.


But that is just one hub that you're going off. Lots of us have much experience with many of these fine hubs and have not had one loose bearing. For the money they can't be beat. They're a fraction of the cost of the King/White Industries experience and offer much more than a fraction of the K/WI value.


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## bwbishop (Sep 17, 2011)

I had multiple issues with my DATI front and rear hub. It may be an isolated incident but I would recommend you stick to the normal BHS hubs which have been through multiple iterations and people seem to have great luck with.


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## 32and3cross (Feb 28, 2005)

Mike T. said:


> But that is just one hub that you're going off. Lots of us have much experience with many of these fine hubs and have not had one loose bearing. For the money they can't be beat. They're a fraction of the cost of the King/White Industries experience and offer much more than a fraction of the K/WI value.



True tho its sounds like that guy had several front hubs with issues. I have heard good things from most everyone else


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## biker jk (Dec 5, 2012)

Stick to the BHS front hubs with two larger bearings or four smaller bearings and you should be fine. I have the SL71W front hub and have done 1600km so far without any issues.


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## jenfromzen (Apr 10, 2012)

*I have BHS hubs on my dream tubular lightweight carbon wheelset*

I haven't had a problem with mine. Yet anyway. I've had them for a few months. Custom build on carbon Xentis rims. Helped me balance weight versus budget. Every hub I looked at there were pros and cons and anything as light or lighter was just a ton more money and still there were people that didn't like things about them. When push came shove, my builder and I decided this was the best bang for the buck and the way to go. My wheels are killer! I get asked about them all the time. These are ultimate climbing wheels and cost about $2200.


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## nsfbr (May 23, 2014)

So I just saw this thread that was dredged up. First off, let me say that I didn't even own a road bike when the thread was created, but have dived in to the sport about as hard as a newb can. I'm not a newb to either biking in general or high quality engineering, manufacturing, running a small business, and great customer service. The way I see it, after having bought complete wheel sets, components and rims (as recently as today) from BHS I can tell you that I have complete confidence in them. 

That doesn't mean that you can't get a defective product from them. I'm sure you can. What I also can say with confidence is that Brandon and his team will make it right. They are about as responsive as you can imagine. They answer questions (and anyone who is on this particular forum knows I ask questions in bulk) quickly and in a way that lets you know that you are individually important to them. 

I'm a fan, a supporter and will be a customer of theirs for many years. I'm confident in that.

Which brings me to the point. If you have a question about the hubs they sell, ask them. Seriously. Ask them what happened. I'm pretty sure you will get a straight answer. You can decide if that answer makes you comfortable or not, but I'm sure you will be given an answer that is honest and straightforward. You can't ask for anything more than that.


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## dcb (Jul 21, 2008)

I'm about 10 lbs. heavier than you and I ran a BHS/Major Tom 32/28 build for cross last season with no issues. I'm two races into CX this season on the same wheels and there's no indication that I'll have any problems.

I also have BHS/Kinlin 279 28/24 build that's pretty much the only thing I use on the road the both hubs have been trouble free. 



32and3cross said:


> Interested to see what people's take would be for a 183lbs rider using these for cyclocross, considering they use an Alu rear axle.


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## carlosflanders (Nov 23, 2008)

I've built up, I think, 9 wheels with bhs hubs. One front hub was defective, scary descending. One rear hub has a modest amount of play - annoying but probably doesnt make a difference.

The others have been fine.

QC on these hubs is never going to be as good as the more expensive hubs, that's why they're cheaper. Tight machining tolerances cost money.


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## ericm979 (Jun 26, 2005)

I've built about the same number of wheels on BHS hubs. Not one has been defective. I have had the DS flange break on two rear hubs that I laced 1x heads in. The first hub was my experiment hub which had been laced in multiple patterns so I thought the break was caused by stress from different lacings; the second one had only been laced 1x heads in.

Because of my experience BHS now discourages 1x heads in on the DS. I would not blame that experience on the hub, it was due to the lacing being improper for the hub. Other hubs have the same type of issues- for example White Ind H1 fronts would deform when laced radial.

The way the BHS hubs are designed the machining has to be exact- the bearing spacer tube or inner race stops on the axle have to be correct to avoid excess preload. If the distance is too long there's too much preload when the bearings are seated in the hub; too short and there would be play. I was initially concerned that there is no adjustment like White Ind hubs have but the hubs I have received have all been good.


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## carlosflanders (Nov 23, 2008)

ericm979 said:


> I've built about the same number of wheels on BHS hubs. Not one has been defective. I have had the DS flange break on two rear hubs that I laced 1x heads in. The first hub was my experiment hub which had been laced in multiple patterns so I thought the break was caused by stress from different lacings; the second one had only been laced 1x heads in.
> 
> Because of my experience BHS now discourages 1x heads in on the DS. I would not blame that experience on the hub, it was due to the lacing being improper for the hub. Other hubs have the same type of issues- for example White Ind H1 fronts would deform when laced radial.
> 
> The way the BHS hubs are designed the machining has to be exact- the bearing spacer tube or inner race stops on the axle have to be correct to avoid excess preload. If the distance is too long there's too much preload when the bearings are seated in the hub; too short and there would be play. I was initially concerned that there is no adjustment like White Ind hubs have but the hubs I have received have all been good.


I swapped out the bearings, end caps and spacer tube on my defective front hub to see if it would make a difference - it didn't.

I can see radial lacing damaging a hub, but am shocked that 1x did.


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## Z'mer (Oct 28, 2013)

carlosflanders said:


> I swapped out the bearings, end caps and spacer tube on my defective front hub to see if it would make a difference - it didn't.


No one has mentioned returning defective hubs to BHS for replacement. Is this a possibility? 

I can understand not taking used returns after the wheel is laced, but what about right out of the box? Is it possible to tell on inspection there is a problem?


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## ericm979 (Jun 26, 2005)

I'm not. I'm not sure any hubs would have taken it. Laced 1x the spokes are almost at 90 degrees to (straight out from) the hub flange. With more cross there's more metal of the flange backing the spoke.

This was on the DS. So not only is the static tension the highest (I build to 130kgf on the DS) but much of the drive torque goes through them. I do a lot of climbing (a million feet a year) and a lot of that is steep, with low gearing. That puts a lot of stress on wheels. Which is why I was experimenting with different lacing.

Another factor was the hubs being 28h- more holes, less flange.

The 1x DS lacing lasted a while, 5000-8000 miles on each wheel. It was an interesting experiment but the lateral stiffness was not noticeably more than 3x/2x hubs, which was the point of the experiments.


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## carlosflanders (Nov 23, 2008)

ericm979 said:


> I'm not. I'm not sure any hubs would have taken it. Laced 1x the spokes are almost at 90 degrees to (straight out from) the hub flange. With more cross there's more metal of the flange backing the spoke.
> 
> This was on the DS. So not only is the static tension the highest (I build to 130kgf on the DS) but much of the drive torque goes through them. I do a lot of climbing (a million feet a year) and a lot of that is steep, with low gearing. That puts a lot of stress on wheels. Which is why I was experimenting with different lacing.
> 
> ...


I guess there's not much difference in angle between 1x and radial. Low gear climbing definitely tests any wheel.


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## carlosflanders (Nov 23, 2008)

Z'mer said:


> No one has mentioned returning defective hubs to BHS for replacement. Is this a possibility?
> 
> I can understand not taking used returns after the wheel is laced, but what about right out of the box? Is it possible to tell on inspection there is a problem?


I'm sure there'd be no problem replacing a defective hub. Unless play is extreme, it's almost impossible to detect until the wheel is built up.


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