# Opinions on wheelset



## BrianLas (Mar 6, 2010)

I am looking at some (relatively) nicer wheels for my road bike. I currently have the stock Shimano RS11 wheels.

I do a bit of racing, but not tons. I am about 165. I want something that is a bit lighter but not something that is going to lose true if it sees a bump/pot hole.

I am looking at something like the mavic Ksyrium Elite and the Fulcrum Racing 3. Both around 500, but can spend a touch more.

Thoughts?


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## Srode (Aug 19, 2012)

Shimano RS81 C24 would be another choice in that price range.


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## BrianLas (Mar 6, 2010)

Srode said:


> Shimano RS81 C24 would be another choice in that price range.


Along those lines, I saw the Shimano Dura-Ace WH-9000-C24. Thoughts?


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## Srode (Aug 19, 2012)

BrianLas said:


> Along those lines, I saw the Shimano Dura-Ace WH-9000-C24. Thoughts?


Very nice, higher than $500 probably, the 9100 Dura Ace would be great too. Weight is probably the difference between the RS81 and 9000, about 75 grams for $250-300 I'd guess. There's a lot more options in the price range of the 9000 wheelset though. I saw a set of HED Ardennes+ for $700 somewhere a few days ago as an example.


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## bmach (Apr 13, 2011)

Check out November Wheels.


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## Srode (Aug 19, 2012)

bmach said:


> Check out November Wheels.


Good point, in the price range of the Dura Ace there's plenty of custom handbuilt wheels that come in to play as options also.


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## Lombard (May 8, 2014)

BrianLas said:


> I am looking at some (relatively) nicer wheels for my road bike. I currently have the stock Shimano RS11 wheels.
> 
> I do a bit of racing, but not tons. I am about 165. I want something that is a bit lighter but not something that is going to lose true if it sees a bump/pot hole.
> 
> ...


Shimano RS11s weigh around 1850g. They are probably the best entry level wheels you will find, but I understand, it's "graduation day"  

I would stay away from Mavic. They aren't the quality they used to be. I'm not familiar with the Fulcrum Racing 3. I do know someone who has put over 20K miles on her Fulcrums. Not sure which Fulcrums these are. Note that Fulcrum freehubs are considerably louder than Shimanos.

I doubt you would go wrong with any of the higher end Shimano wheels others have mentioned in this thread.

HED Ardennes Plus GPs are also good wheels and worth a look, but a little more expensive at around $700.

DT Swiss P 1800 Spline 23s are another good possibility. But note that DT Swiss freehubs are at least as loud as the Fulcrums if that matters.

And of course you could always go custom if you want.

The possibilities are endless.


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## Andreas_Illesch (Jul 9, 2002)

BrianLas said:


> Along those lines, I saw the Shimano Dura-Ace WH-9000-C24. Thoughts?


Not stiff, judging from my experience with WH-6700 and WH-RS20.

Next year there are new Fulcrum Racing 3s available with a wider rim.
Also next year new Ultegra wheels are available, WH-RS700-C30, rear wheel has 30mm rim and 2:1 lacing.
https://road.cc/sites/default/files...ltegra-wh-rs700-c30-tl-rear.jpg?itok=j9XbwIAt


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## Lombard (May 8, 2014)

Andreas_Illesch said:


> Not stiff, judging from my experience with *WH-6700 and WH-RS20*.
> 
> Next year there are new Fulcrum Racing 3s available with a wider rim.
> Also next year new Ultegra wheels are available, WH-RS700-C30, rear wheel has 30mm rim and 2:1 lacing.
> https://road.cc/sites/default/files...ltegra-wh-rs700-c30-tl-rear.jpg?itok=j9XbwIAt


Not a fair comparison to compare these the Shimano Dura-Ace WH-9000-C24 which is a high end wheel set. The WH-RS20 you mention above is an entry level wheel set very similar to the RS11. The WH-6700 is an older generation Ultegra. The WH-6800 was a vast improvement over the WH-6700.

OP, one thing to be very careful about is that your existing wheels are an old-school internal width of 15mm. That is narrow by today's standard. Many new wheels are wider. Keep in mind that wider wheels will make your tires effectively a little wider. When I went from 15mm to 17mm wheels, my tires were 1mm wider! So check the clearance between your chain stays carefully to make sure you don't end up with a beautiful new wheel set that won't fit with the tires you want to use.


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## Andreas_Illesch (Jul 9, 2002)

Lombard said:


> Not a fair comparison to compare these the Shimano Dura-Ace WH-9000-C24 which is a high end wheel set. The WH-RS20 you mention above is an entry level wheel set very similar to the RS11. The WH-6700 is an older generation Ultegra. The WH-6800 was a vast improvement over the WH-6700.



What has "fair" got to do with it? What has "high end" to do with it?
I know what these wheel-sets are, I rode them.

All these wheels have a small rim profile, all have the same low spoke count, all have the same lacing pattern.
So unless Shimano did some magic on that carbon-aluminium Dura Ace rim, the stiffness is doubtful.


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## Andreas_Illesch (Jul 9, 2002)

Lombard said:


> The WH-6800 was a vast improvement over the WH-6700.


Really?
In what way?
Is the WH-6800 vastly stiffer than the WH-6700?


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## changingleaf (Aug 20, 2009)

I recommend something custom. A nice wheelset can be built with Boyd Altamont Lite rims.

The wheels you're looking take more time and money to fix when something goes wrong.


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## Lombard (May 8, 2014)

Andreas_Illesch said:


> Really?
> In what way?
> Is the WH-6800 vastly stiffer than the WH-6700?


Less complaints. Don't know if it is "vastly stiffer". I do know people who own WH-6800 and love them. No complaints about stiffness.

If you really want a stiffer wheel, you need a higher spoke count. More spokes will give you a stiffer wheel.


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## Lombard (May 8, 2014)

changingleaf said:


> I recommend something custom. A nice wheelset can be built with Boyd Altamont Lite rims.
> 
> The wheels you're looking take more time and money to fix when something goes wrong.


This is true and I prefer custom built myself. The trouble with custom built is finding a good custom builder. I build my own wheels, so that is a non-issue.


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## Andreas_Illesch (Jul 9, 2002)

Lombard said:


> If you really want a stiffer wheel, you need a higher spoke count. More spokes will give you a stiffer wheel.


No, really?


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## Kerry Irons (Feb 25, 2002)

Andreas_Illesch said:


> Not stiff, judging from my experience with WH-6700 and WH-RS20.


Just curious, but how did you measure "stiff." The reason I ask is that blind tests show that riders cannot tell the difference between laterally stiff and laterally flexy wheels based on the ride.


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## Jay Strongbow (May 8, 2010)

Lombard said:


> Less complaints. Don't know if it is "vastly stiffer". I do know people who own WH-6800 and love them. No complaints about stiffness.
> 
> If you really want a stiffer wheel, you need a higher spoke count. More spokes will give you a stiffer wheel.


You said they were a vast improvement. If you can't identify what that vast improvement is you should just admit you were BS-ing and move on. The only change I'm aware of is 11 speed compatible hubs. And the only information I've heard is Shimano didn't improve anything going from 10 to 11.

And no, getting a stiff wheel is not as simple as getting one with a lot of spokes.


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## Jay Strongbow (May 8, 2010)

Lombard said:


> This is true and I prefer custom built myself. The trouble with custom built is finding a good custom builder. I build my own wheels, so that is a non-issue.


Please. So you build a couple wheels and you think finding someone with your skill is going to be an problem?


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## BrianLas (Mar 6, 2010)

Lombard said:


> OP, one thing to be very careful about is that your existing wheels are an old-school internal width of 15mm. That is narrow by today's standard. Many new wheels are wider. Keep in mind that wider wheels will make your tires effectively a little wider. When I went from 15mm to 17mm wheels, my tires were 1mm wider! So check the clearance between your chain stays carefully to make sure you don't end up with a beautiful new wheel set that won't fit with the tires you want to use.[/COLOR]


This is good info that I hadn't really considered. Mostly because I am pretty sure I am going to get some new tires to go with it. 

I feel pretty confident that I am going to purchase one of the Shimano wheelsets, either the Dura-Ace WH-9000-C24 or the RS 81 C24. They seem to be pretty good bang for the buck. If they are not as stiff as they could be, I wonder if I will actually know. 
As an aside, do I need a new set of brake pads, or will they only be stopping on the aluminum part of the rim.

I think that custom build wheels might be where I go next, I think that I want to be a bit more well versed in exactly what I want (like potentially "learning" how stiff laterally a wheel feels and such) before I start working my way into that area.


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## Lombard (May 8, 2014)

Here's a good article debunking misconceptions on stiffness. It's worth reading in its entirely:

Debunking Wheel Stiffness - Slowtwitch.com


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## Lombard (May 8, 2014)

Andreas_Illesch said:


> No, really?


Yes, really. And trust me, the extra spokes won't slow you down.


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## Lombard (May 8, 2014)

Jay Strongbow said:


> Please. So you build a couple wheels and you think finding someone with your skill is going to be an problem?


I am reluctant to respond since you appear to be in attack mode, but I will anyway.

What I meant was to chose your wheel builder carefully. There are plenty of good builders out there, but there are also some whose quality is inconsistent - usually the larger outfits. I bought a custom wheel set from one place online where I wasn't very pleased with the quality. I had to touch up the wheels. 

An LBS is probably your best bet.


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## No Time Toulouse (Sep 7, 2016)

Lombard said:


> ......
> An LBS is probably your best bet.


Kinda depends on the LBS. A shop I go to fairly often has a 'wheelbuilder' mechanic, but he's more of a MTB guy. His ideas go more towards heavy spokes, and thinks that semi-radial spoking makes a 'weak' wheel.


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## Lombard (May 8, 2014)

No Time Toulouse said:


> Kinda depends on the LBS. A shop I go to fairly often has a 'wheelbuilder' mechanic, but he's more of a MTB guy. His ideas go more towards heavy spokes, and thinks that semi-radial spoking makes a 'weak' wheel.


That may be true. I was more referring to the quality of the build, rather than the chosen components. I once bought a wheel set from one of the larger custom builders. Spoke tensions were all over the place. I can't really complain since the wheels were a bargain and I know how to correct these problems. However, if you're not into building your own wheels, it would be a problem.


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## Srode (Aug 19, 2012)

Kerry Irons said:


> Just curious, but how did you measure "stiff." The reason I ask is that blind tests show that riders cannot tell the difference between laterally stiff and laterally flexy wheels based on the ride.


My definition -->Stiff = doesn't rub the brakes hammering out of the saddle up a steep hill with the brakes adjusted reasonably close to the rim and flexy = they rub.


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## Andreas_Illesch (Jul 9, 2002)

Kerry Irons said:


> Just curious, but how did you measure "stiff."


Are you familiar with the German Tour road cycling magazine? If you want to know how to measure wheel stiffness have look there, it's quite simple. They put on loads and measure deflections...



Kerry Irons said:


> The reason I ask is that blind tests show that riders cannot tell the difference between laterally stiff and laterally flexy wheels based on the ride.


Are you kidding or are you making that up?
What kind of riders are that, some old ladies?
I am sure every sportive cyclist is able to notice a flexy wheel. Not only on the road but also on the truing stand where I had to true my flexy WH-6700 every week.


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## Lombard (May 8, 2014)

Andreas_Illesch said:


> I am sure every sportive cyclist is able to notice a flexy wheel. Not only on the road but also on the truing stand where I had to true my flexy WH-6700 every week.


I have dealt with wheel flexing, but it never threw the wheel out of true. If your wheels needed adjustment every week, I'm guessing you didn't correct for spoke twist when you made adjustments.


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## Andreas_Illesch (Jul 9, 2002)

Lombard said:


> I have dealt with wheel flexing, but it never threw the wheel out of true. If your wheels needed adjustment every week, I'm guessing you didn't correct for spoke twist when you made adjustments.


WH-6700 have bladed spokes and even a slotted spoke key is supplied so they are very easy to correct for spoke twist.
I am pretty sure I would notice a twisted bladed spoke...


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## Lombard (May 8, 2014)

Andreas_Illesch said:


> WH-6700 have* bladed spokes *and even a slotted spoke key is supplied so they are very easy to correct for spoke twist.
> I am pretty sure* I would notice a twisted bladed spoke...*


True. don't know what the problem is then. I haven't heard of this with the WH-6800 though.


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## bleckb (Jun 13, 2005)

I just received a pair of November Wheel A-Force Al 33 with Powertap G3 hub. I'm stoked for the change in weather, which is a few months out. Might give them a whirl on the trainer, but who knows about that. Have yet to hear a bad word here about November Wheels.


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## Mike T. (Feb 3, 2004)

bleckb said:


> Have yet to hear a bad word here about November Wheels.


We don't hear many, do we?


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## bleckb (Jun 13, 2005)

Mike T. said:


> We don't hear many, do we?


I've only heard good things, which is why I'm hoping once I get them on the road I'll be able to sing their praises based on experience. It's always a bit of a crap shoot, but I'm confident I'll enjoy them.


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## Trek_5200 (Apr 21, 2013)

Srode said:


> Shimano RS81 C24 would be another choice in that price range.


the rs81's may just about be the best wheel out there for the money. if you can afford or justify it the dura ace 24's are even better. but the value proposition goes to rs81.


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## Trek_5200 (Apr 21, 2013)

BrianLas said:


> Along those lines, I saw the Shimano Dura-Ace WH-9000-C24. Thoughts?



been my go to wheel for close to four years. i love them, especially for climbing. been to provence, girona, french alps ,pyreenes, girona and mallorca on them and they've more than served me well.


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