# Another pro team gets ripped off.



## Mike T. (Feb 3, 2004)

For about the third time this year another pro team has had its bikes and stuff ripped off out of their truck, overnight. Late last week it was the Cult Energy team after the Tour de Haut Var - 36 bikes and all their stock. On the weekend it was the Chinese national team after the track world championships. They lost 20,000GBP of boxed bikes. And on it goes, and it's been happening since team vans were invented.

What's wrong with these mickey-mouse operations? Can't they rig something to sound an alarm when the van gets broken into? Does no-one have ANY imagination?

Heck, even *I* have an alarm that announces when even the friendly bunny hops up my driveway at night and when the newspaper girl arrives in the morning. Heaven help the crook who sneaks up my drive at 3am. It's a $200 Optex Wireless 2000. It has an infra-red sensing head and a remote, wireless receiver. Put the head in the truck and the receiver in the mechanic's bedroom and bingo, the rip-off guys announce their entry into the team van. I've even got a motion-sensor light too - that would light up the perpetrators for all to see.

Or for NO cost, how about a trip-wire or door wire that pulls a toolbox off a shelf, wakes the dead and scares the crooks $#itless?

Some people don't deserve to be in charge of tens of thousands of dollars of team equipment.

See the 2nd line in my signature.


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## RRRoubaix (Aug 27, 2008)

Rabid pitbull FTW!

Seriously though- I'm with you. It's becoming so commonplace, how do teams not acct for this?? Ridiculous.


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## penn_rider (Jul 11, 2009)

Insurance scam? I cant see why it is not easier to stop or deter.


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## Mike T. (Feb 3, 2004)

penn_rider said:


> Insurance scam? I cant see why it is not easier to stop or deter.


It's beyond my comprehension that someone smart enough to be in charge of that much stuff can't come up with something inexpensive, simple and ingenious. I can; I did.


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## den bakker (Nov 13, 2004)

penn_rider said:


> Insurance scam? I cant see why it is not easier to stop or deter.


at least in some of the instances it was un-insured


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## den bakker (Nov 13, 2004)

Mike T. said:


> Put the head in the truck and the receiver in the mechanic's bedroom and bingo, the rip-off guys announce their entry into the team van.


I'm pretty sure it's illegal in most countries to have people work in the morning, drive to next location, work afternoon/evening and then be on call during the night.


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## kbiker3111 (Nov 7, 2006)

den bakker said:


> I'm pretty sure it's illegal in most countries to have people work in the morning, drive to next location, work afternoon/evening and then be on call during the night.


I'm pretty sure the position of team mechanic for most teams breaks lots of labor laws.


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## Mike T. (Feb 3, 2004)

den bakker said:


> I'm pretty sure it's illegal in most countries to have people work in the morning, drive to next location, work afternoon/evening and then be on call during the night.


You can't be serious with that comment?

"Yeah, the alarm's gone off in the truck but I ain't going as I did my 8 hrs today. Sorry. Heck I'm not gonna even pick up the phone to call the cops."


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## den bakker (Nov 13, 2004)

Mike T. said:


> You can't be serious with that comment?
> 
> "Yeah, the alarm's gone off in the truck but I ain't going as I did my 8 hrs today. Sorry. Heck I'm not gonna even pick up the phone to call the cops."


please educate us on working hour regulation in the different european countries. rest hours, working hours. being on call is part of that, so it would be an illegal working environment, independently if the mechanic would be doing it or not. It will be part of his job I assume?

edited: but to be constructive, perhaps not putting on the race website which hotels the riders stay at would be a good start. Sure it's not hard to figure out but why make it easy. 
just like not starting the GPS at your drive way.


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## Mike T. (Feb 3, 2004)

den bakker said:


> please educate us on working hour regulation in the different european countries. rest hours, working hours. being on call is part of that, so it would be an illegal working environment, independently if the mechanic would be doing it or not. It will be part of his job I assume?


Riiiigggghhhhtttt.


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## den bakker (Nov 13, 2004)

Mike T. said:


> Riiiigggghhhhtttt.


cute. 
now next point on the agenda: how would you like taking on the southern french organized crime with a wrench and a can of WD40?


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## Cinelli 82220 (Dec 2, 2010)

This discussion has been done before.
Sometimes the thefts are from trucks parked in plain view in the parking lots of hotels.
They are so blatant there is no way that they can be anything other than insurance scams.

den bakker: re labour laws, If an employee was asleep in the truck he would not be considered working. He is sleeping.
Occasionally my employer ships very high-value products and someone has to sleep in the truck with them. I have done my turn. It is no big deal. I would not have died defending our property but I would have set off the alarms. If these teams actually were interested in dealing with the issue they could do the same.
Seriously, I no longer believe these are genuine crimes. They are easily preventable. The teams simply can't be bothered.


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## den bakker (Nov 13, 2004)

Cinelli 82220 said:


> den bakker: re labour laws, If an employee was asleep in the truck he would not be considered working. He is sleeping.
> Occasionally my employer ships very high-value products and someone has to sleep in the truck with them. I have done my turn. It is no big deal. I would not have died defending our property but I would have set off the alarms. If these teams actually were interested in dealing with the issue they could do the same.
> Seriously, I no longer believe these are genuine crimes. They are easily preventable. The teams simply can't be bothered.


rest hours are typically in Europe 11 contiguous hours, where you can do what you want. Which means you cannot be required to be in the truck. And I wish you luck pushing that a truck is considered suitable accommodation for a non truck driver. 

But coming back to what to do then: how would you handle the local Marseille gang? carrying automatic weapons. Knowing that standard procedure in case the cops come is to take a hostage and thus be allowed to escape? Is it really worth a dozen frames and groups and wheels?


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## Rashadabd (Sep 17, 2011)

I am no expert on this kind of stuff by a long shot, but my gut feeling is that teams are on razor thin budgets, under considerable amounts of pressure, fighting to win and find and keep sponsors, and just don't think this will happen/or is a priority. And to be honest, in 97% of the races, they are right and it doesn't. I agree with everyone, however, that they need to wise up, realize it's a problem that will likley only get worse, and protect their equipment. I also think race organizers (which often make significantly more $$$ for these events than teams do) could invest a little cash into providing security for team vans (even if it is at a hotel and/or provide some desginated team van lot, etc.). Anyway you ut it, this is problem that every pro team should be able to address and keep under control.


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## waterloo (Nov 8, 2005)

Come on, this kind of stuff happens all the time

Travis Kvapil's NASCAR car stolen from hotel parking lot near Atlanta before race, police say | Fox News


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## thalo (Jul 17, 2011)

they have all those bike computers, cant they access the gps function to find where things are going? how about chaining the van up to a bike rack on the street??


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## looigi (Nov 24, 2010)

den bakker said:


> I'm pretty sure it's illegal in most countries to have people work in the morning, drive to next location, work afternoon/evening and then be on call during the night.


So not only are the thieves stealing, they're breaking labor laws too???!!!


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## Mike T. (Feb 3, 2004)

looigi said:


> So not only are the thieves stealing, they're breaking labor laws too???!!!


Hahahahaha, love it!!  If thieves honored the labor laws like team helpers there would be no more nocturnal bike heists!


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## Cinelli 82220 (Dec 2, 2010)

den bakker said:


> rest hours are typically in Europe 11 contiguous hours, where you can do what you want


Okay I know you're just trolling, so how about you explain how a race can last over six or seven hours without the riders getting a paid meal break.


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## den bakker (Nov 13, 2004)

Cinelli 82220 said:


> Okay I know you're just trolling, so how about you explain how a race can last over six or seven hours without the riders getting a paid meal break.


you think meal breaks are always paid in Europe? or are you just trolling?


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## Jwiffle (Mar 18, 2005)

Don't think it would break any labor laws to hire someone specifically for the night shift to guard the vehicles. Shouldn't necessarily have to be mechanics sleeping in the truck.


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## 32and3cross (Feb 28, 2005)

My understanding from those in the know is that these are normally organised crime thefts. They have the cooperation of hotel staff to some degree and are not the sort of people that you face down, unless you like being beaten to death or shot.

The gangs that pull these jobs have lots of folks around that keep them informed of who has what where. The also typically hit masters worlds and other events like that.

Normal prodeure is to lock everything in the team truck and back that up aginst a wall. Sometimes hotels provide rooms for bikes to be stored in - the thieves love that if they have someone on the staff in their pocket.

When I was wrenching I refuesed to keep anything in the car at races esp bikes and wheels. Even tho its not as much of an issue in the states I just had it engrained in me after years of being in a band (where someone slept in the van if we left the gear in there).


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## Mike T. (Feb 3, 2004)

32and3cross said:


> My understanding from those in the know is that these are normally organised crime thefts. They have the cooperation of hotel staff to some degree and are not the sort of people that you face down, unless you like being beaten to death or shot.


Unless those working under the labor laws trotted out by Bakker are not even allowed to phone the cops when the truck alarm goes off at 3am after working a full 8-hr day.............!



> Normal prodeure is to lock everything in the team truck and back that up aginst a wall.


30 seconds with a chain and a pulling vehicle will fix that.

This whole thread is turning out to be a big joke. The alarm that I suggested earlier (mine has been in use for over 7 years) and a hotel room telephone and the phone number of the local cops (unless Bakker trolls us with "what if the cops are on the crooks' payroll?") will have the whole issue fixed in minutes.


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## 32and3cross (Feb 28, 2005)

No idea why they don't have alarms or perhaps hey do and those are being defeated as well.

My general understanding tho is that these are targeted and thought out so I would guess if there are alarms the gangs know about them and how to defeat them. That or they are inside jobs.


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## Mike T. (Feb 3, 2004)

32and3cross said:


> No idea why they don't have alarms or perhaps hey do and those are being defeated as well.
> 
> My general understanding tho is that these are targeted and thought out so I would guess if there are alarms the gangs know about them and how to defeat them. That or they are inside jobs.


I dunno how the heck they would defeat my alarm (wireless infra-red motion sensing beam that would be inside the truck; it would sense the door going up) unless they snuck into the bedroom and turned the receiver/base station off.


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## Jwiffle (Mar 18, 2005)

Mike T. said:


> I dunno how the heck they would defeat my alarm (wireless infra-red motion sensing beam that would be inside the truck; it would sense the door going up) unless they snuck into the bedroom and turned the receiver/base station off.


Jam the signal to the receiver?


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## Mike T. (Feb 3, 2004)

Jwiffle said:


> Jam the signal to the receiver?


First, they would have to know there WAS one. Then you do the backup - the big toolbox, precariously balanced, connected to a wire, connected to the rollup door..............


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## 55x11 (Apr 24, 2006)

they would wait till you go out for dinner and too far to receive an alarm.

Not everyone is as paranoid as you are. What do you do when you travel out of town? If you ever travel. What do you do when you go to work - do you have an alarm on your garage? Will you be able to get back home in less than 2 minutes?


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## 32and3cross (Feb 28, 2005)

Mike T. said:


> First, they would have to know there WAS one. Then you do the backup - the big toolbox, precariously balanced, connected to a wire, connected to the rollup door..............


And when the 5 other mechanics you work with need to get in? Or one of the riders, or a team staff person?


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## Mike T. (Feb 3, 2004)

32and3cross said:


> And when the 5 other mechanics you work with need to get in? Or one of the riders, or a team staff person?


Remove the windshield and get in that way


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## den bakker (Nov 13, 2004)

Mike T. said:


> Remove the windshield and get in that way


you never told us what your next move was. alarm goes off. probably some thieves from the marseille area, probably armed. What do you do to stop them?


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## Mike T. (Feb 3, 2004)

den bakker said:


> you never told us what your next move was. alarm goes off. probably some thieves from the marseille area, probably armed. What do you do to stop them?


I have this pointed stick..............


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## den bakker (Nov 13, 2004)

Mike T. said:


> I have this pointed stick..............


cool bro. 
They will respect your authoritah


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## Winn (Feb 15, 2013)

Mike T. said:


> I have this pointed stick..............


I assume you use that stick to dial the number of the local police.


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## Mike T. (Feb 3, 2004)

Winn said:


> I assume you use that stick to dial the number of the local police.


It's multi-purpose, and also multi-function, with replaceable tips and ergonomic composite handle.


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## BacDoc (Aug 1, 2011)

I got a tile for my keys. This or chip like they use for animals will give location. Easy to fix to frame, hard to detect and very reliable and trace able.

Won't stop the theft but can locate and identify the item. Cheap, foolproof and once installed requires no maintenance and nobody, even the rider, could detect its presence.


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## Snackbot (Mar 16, 2015)

It's funny watching Americans obsessed with protecting his (and it's always a him) home castle talk to Europeans who clearly don't care about the slightly insane American obsession with security.


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## 32and3cross (Feb 28, 2005)

BacDoc said:


> I got a tile for my keys. This or chip like they use for animals will give location. Easy to fix to frame, hard to detect and very reliable and trace able.
> 
> Won't stop the theft but can locate and identify the item. Cheap, foolproof and once installed requires no maintenance and nobody, even the rider, could detect its presence.


This is reasonably viable thought. The vans and vehicles themselves might be low jacked. I would imagin you could chip the frames but it would be a pretty large headache. The downside is all the parts and wheels tools etc. None of that stays together very long I would guess. From what I have been told the bikes are all broken down and sold as parts, so you might find the framesets but little else.


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## den bakker (Nov 13, 2004)

32and3cross said:


> This is reasonably viable thought. The vans and vehicles themselves might be low jacked. I would imagin you could chip the frames but it would be a pretty large headache. The downside is all the parts and wheels tools etc. None of that stays together very long I would guess. From what I have been told the bikes are all broken down and sold as parts, so you might find the framesets but little else.


The frames are probably hard to sell in many cases any way. A dura ace/ultegra group? sure, plenty of buyers. A CULT frame? Well, fewer would like that and more people would be wary of it being recognised, especially if things are sold relatively local. (yes more will ride a sky bike).


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## Rashadabd (Sep 17, 2011)

den bakker said:


> The frames are probably hard to sell in many cases any way. A dura ace/ultegra group? sure, plenty of buyers. A CULT frame? Well, fewer would like that and more people would be wary of it being recognised, especially if things are sold relatively local. (yes more will ride a sky bike).


With eBay and craigslist, I'm not so sure, many former ro frames are sold legitimately on eBay. I could see someone putting an ad together that would fool a less savvy buyer that is looking for a deal.


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