# experimenting with new lube



## ARP (Mar 7, 2002)

Nothing new about it actually, tried the search function and came up empty. Marvel Mystery Oil, about 5 bucks a quart or so. Apparently from what I have read on another forum it is basically a motor oil with transmission fluid in it. It is thin in nature, very fluid like, It cleans the chain fairly well and certainly does lube it. I'm curious as to how "sticky" it might be to attract dirt, certainly not any better or worse than the home brew I was trying. Has a nice sort of minty scent too


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## ultraman6970 (Aug 1, 2010)

The best oil for me is the one for chainsaws, you get like a quart for 5 bucks at home depot. Clean the chain with fuel or whatever really well.

Hang the chain and poor the oil over the chain and let it sit for a few hours or at night. If you want submerge the chain in the oil is ok too but you have to let it drop the excess oil by gravity for a few hours.

Clean it with a paper really well, install and ready to go.

That oil is designed to stick in the chain.

ps: have used AT tranny oil and the problem is that wont stick to the chain as good as other stuff.


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## looigi (Nov 24, 2010)

From Wikipedia, according to an NTSB safety report: "As of 2002, Mystery Oil is composed of 74 percent mineral oil, 25 percent stoddard solvent, and 1 percent lard."


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## ARP (Mar 7, 2002)

I can say this, since I have been riding and cleaning and lubing since the 70's I have tried a lot of lubes. Currently the experiment I am running is on a trainer set up in the house. Saw no fling(wiped area with white paper towel after session) Marvels seems to be a bit different and cleans well w/o being runny. Question is does dirt really stick to it as opposed to the dry wax type lubes. 

I've done the uber clean and lube, taking off the chain and soaking in citrus based degreasers, wipe and dry it out and then replace and re lube followed up by the wipe down every few rides with WD40, then re lube etc. Marvels might eliminate that WD40 step unless I end up caught out in the rain for a long time.


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## jmlapoint (Sep 4, 2008)

*Chain-L Lube*

Mystery Oil sounds like from viewing the components that it should work really well for lubing chain. As long as you wipe it down after application.

If you are looking for a lube that 'sticks' and stays where you put it, I have been very happy with Chain-L Lube. I ride fixed and chain is very quiet and lube lasts a long time.
john

Home Page Chain-L High Mileage Bicycle Chain Lubricant


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## steelbikerider (Feb 7, 2005)

Been using it off and on for awhile. works about as well as the others. To be honest, I can't tell much off a difference in wet chain lubes. Drip it on, wipe off excess, ride 1-2 weeks, repeat. Chain lasts 6 months/3000 miles regardless of lube.


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## metoou2 (Mar 18, 2009)

looigi said:


> From Wikipedia, according to an NTSB safety report: "As of 2002, *Mystery Oil* is composed of 74 percent mineral oil, 25 percent stoddard solvent, and 1 percent lard."


mystery solved


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## ARP (Mar 7, 2002)

steelbikerider said:


> Been using it off and on for awhile. works about as well as the others. To be honest, I can't tell much off a difference in wet chain lubes. Drip it on, wipe off excess, ride 1-2 weeks, repeat. Chain lasts 6 months/3000 miles regardless of lube.


Actually the idea to use it came from a firearms forum. Just like anything that is higher end hobby related, if a product is designed specifically for that hobby, the price will be thru the roof. For example a 2oz tube of Rem Oil cost about $5 I think and a quart of Mobile synthetic motor oil cost about $6. Plenty of people using both Marvels and Mobile One in guns these days. And with the cleaning and lubing properties of Marvels, the great big pissing match debate over whether it is wise to lube a gun with motor oil product is appropriate.


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## froze (Sep 15, 2002)

Not all lubes are made the same that's for sure. All the wax based crud I've ever used the chains lasted less then a third as long as teflon based dry lubes. And I am using Chain L on two of my bikes and so far so good, it does last longer between cleaning and relubing, but while Chain L says to clean and relube every 900 miles, I'm doing it every 500 which is longer then my other preferred lube make by Finish Line called Dry Teflon Lube which allows me to go about 250 miles between cleaning and relubing (any wax product I ever used only lasted about 70 miles between relubing). 

I do know I get about 13,000 miles on my chains with the Finish Line, but I've got just over 2,000 on one of my chains with the Chain L so I'm not sure about the chain life yet.

But I thought about experimenting myself using STP Oil Treatment because it has a stringy consistency like the Chain L, but I will have to experiment to get the right percentage of carrier to blend with it. The other thing I was thinking of experimenting with is using Mobil 1 gear oil and a carrier mix. 

Personally I think Marvel Mystery oil is too thin.


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## threebikes (Feb 1, 2009)

I bought some Du Pont Teflon Multi Use Lubricant at lowes.
4 oz for $ 3.97
Shop DuPont 4 oz Multi-Use Lubricant at Lowes.com
11 oz aerosol is $ 5.58
Shop DuPont Teflon 11 oz Teflon Multi-Use Lubricant at Lowes.com


They also have Teflon Chain Saver , 4oz for $ 4.97
Shop DuPont 4 oz Chain-Saver Lubricant at Lowes.com


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## Kevin29r (Apr 14, 2009)

I tried the DuPont spray Teflon lube, but it seems to build up, become gummy, and was hard to remove. The best road bike lube I have used is Chain-L. It seems to stay inside the rollers and links. I just wipe the chain and gears after each ride and rarely reapply. The chain stays clean. However, it gummed up on the mountain bike.
For that bike I use Pro link after each ride, which consists of wiping, lubing, wiping, lubing, and the a lot more wiping. Its a bit of work, but the chain never requires complete sovent or water cleaning.
I am happy with these two lubes for these totally different uses.


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## pulser955 (Apr 18, 2009)

I just mixed up some Mobil1 and odorless mineral oil about 50/50. I usually use Rock n Roll lube. But becasue my bikes live out in the cold it wont work on a really cold chain with out making a big mess. So I need something for the winter that's oil based. I did some Googleing today and found an interesting recipe that I want to try. 2/3 coconut oil 1/3 Isopropyl alcohol and a dash or corn oil.


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## ARP (Mar 7, 2002)

froze said:


> Not all lubes are made the same that's for sure.  All the wax based crud I've ever used the chains lasted less then a third as long as teflon based dry lubes. And I am using Chain L on two of my bikes and so far so good, it does last longer between cleaning and relubing, but while Chain L says to clean and relube every 900 miles, I'm doing it every 500 which is longer then my other preferred lube make by Finish Line called Dry Teflon Lube which allows me to go about 250 miles between cleaning and relubing (any wax product I ever used only lasted about 70 miles between relubing).
> 
> I do know I get about 13,000 miles on my chains with the Finish Line, but I've got just over 2,000 on one of my chains with the Chain L so I'm not sure about the chain life yet.
> 
> ...


I did the 50/50 mix thing and thought it is waaaaay to thin to be effective. Going to run Marvels for the first half of the year and see how it goes.


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## DrSmile (Jul 22, 2006)

2 days and no mention of home-brew? As for experimenting with new lube, it tends to mess the sheets!


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## flatlander_48 (Nov 16, 2005)

threebikes said:


> I bought some Du Pont Teflon Multi Use Lubricant at lowes.
> 4 oz for $ 3.97
> Shop DuPont 4 oz Multi-Use Lubricant at Lowes.com
> 11 oz aerosol is $ 5.58
> ...


I have both liquids at the moment. One of them (can't remember which one as I am not at home) looks like White Lightning chain lube...


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## AtomicMoose (Aug 15, 2012)

Another vote for Chain-L here. Works great and not too messy.


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## Touch0Gray (May 29, 2003)

and marvel mystery oil has the coolest name and a damn good looking can!


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## thalo (Jul 17, 2011)

with comments of viscosity (thicker oil, strands of oil, stickier oil, etc.), has anyone tried using lucas oil treatments? you know, when you go to the auto part store and there is the display of the gears in the clear plastic box and you get to turn the crank and see that the lucas oil treated oil holds together much more with larger "web" area between the gears, and stuff.

just a thought, not tried it and dont really plan to in the near future.


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## Dave Cutter (Sep 26, 2012)

I tried Marvel Mystery Oil.... after I realized my pricey LBS bottle of chain oil contained asphalt. No wonder the chain turned black so quickly. 

My bottle of Marvel listed use for bicycles.... right on its label. Marvel was clean, and quite. But I switched to an even cleaner oil [IMHO only I have no stats or data]... again from the LBS called *ProLink*. 

So many opinions on chain oil... and lubricating methods.... not something I want to get into. I have no expertise or advice. But for me.... I like a clean light oil. From time-to-time I wash off the old oil with a spray of Simple Green, warm soapy water and a good rinse from the garden hose. I let the chain dry well before I re-lube and then wipe nearly dry.


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## froze (Sep 15, 2002)

Do not use Simple green to degrease your chain, this stuff is actually corrosive, and SRAM even issued a warning not to use it on their chains. Simple Green is a water based cleaner that will leave rust causing moisture and thus should never be used on chains, only non water based cleaners should be used like mineral spirits, WD40, Kerosene, (gasoline but don't do to the extreme hazard of the stuff), or one of the bike specific brand of chain cleaners.

You can recycle solvents by simply pouring the dirty solvent through a coffee filter and recapture it in a bottle then reuse it to clean the chain the next time as a first cleaning followed by a second cleaning with virgin solvent.

There are different ways to clean a chain, either leaving it on the bike or taking it off the bike, I prefer to leave it on and use the Finish Line Chain Cleaning machine, it's quick, hassle free, non-messy, and it cleans as well as taking the chain off.

I learned to recycle my solvent from years of using a solvent basin, and then I read from Sheldon Brown some years ago I can recycle my cycling solvent I use in the Chain Cleaning machine by first running the dirty solvent through a paper coffee filter allowing it to pour into a bottle then save the "dirty" solvent for the first cleaning the next time, and follow up with a second cleaning of virgin solvent instead of using virgin solvent twice on one cleaning.


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## ARP (Mar 7, 2002)

Touch0Gray said:


> and marvel mystery oil has the coolest name and a damn good looking can!


so far I like the lube properties, i poured some from the bottle into one of those thumb operated oil cans. love the scent too.


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## jmlapoint (Sep 4, 2008)

Yummy!


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## jmlapoint (Sep 4, 2008)

*Home Brew*

I want to go back to Home Brew for chain and as I remember most folks use 3:1 ratio of Motor Oil:Odorless Mineral Spirits. 
john


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## jmlapoint (Sep 4, 2008)

Has anyone used straight motor oil or gear lube? Let it penetrate for a while, and then wipe chain until no residue on rag. Seems like lube is lube, and if you wipe the outside of the chain so that lube is only inside the rollers, that the chain won't collect grime no mater what you use.
john


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## jmlapoint (Sep 4, 2008)

ARP said:


> so far I like the lube properties, i poured some from the bottle into one of those thumb operated oil cans. love the scent too.


ARP:
I have never tried *Marvel Mystery Oil*, but it sounds like you have stumbled onto something cool. I have a huge container that I add to my Jeep, but never considered trying it as chain lube. I am going to give it a try.
Thanks for posting.
I ride *Fixed* and I am a *chain freak*. I want my chain to be smooth and quiet, but als want my chain-drive to look clean and sparklie. I will give you a follow-up.
Thanks,
John


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## Kerry Irons (Feb 25, 2002)

jmlapoint said:


> Has anyone used straight motor oil or gear lube? Let it penetrate for a while, and then wipe chain until no residue on rag. Seems like lube is lube, and if you wipe the outside of the chain so that lube is only inside the rollers, that the chain won't collect grime no mater what you use.


The key question is whether the viscous oil will actually penetrate into all the nooks and crannies and displace what is there already. This issue is why ProLink is effective - as a very thin solution of oil and solvent it easily penetrates and displaces (or at least dilutes) whatever is inside the chain rollers and between the chain plates. Then the solvent evaporates leaving the lube in place. It is not clear that you will get this effect by just applying the heavy lube directly.


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## Dave Cutter (Sep 26, 2012)

froze said:


> Do not use Simple green to degrease your chain,........ Simple Green is a water based cleaner that will leave rust causing moisture and thus should never be used on chains, only non water based cleaners should be used like mineral spirits, WD40, Kerosene,....... or one of the bike specific brand of chain cleaners.


Yeah.... I am familiar with that theory. *Have you heard the theory that solvents break-down lubricants and therefore shouldn't be used on parts normally oiled?* 

I am pretty sure soap and water has been around long enough I can feel safe and confident in it's use. Believe it or not.... I use soap on everything. I understand the Air Force uses soap and water on their fighter jet engine parts. In the Army, on occasion, we used soapy water to clean our rifles. 

That said.... *I don't recommend anyone use simple green on anything... nor do I recommend any brand of soap on a bicycle.* So many different ideas and beliefs about bicycle chains and lubes! Not something I care to get into. I have no special expertise that would qualify me to give oil advice.


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## jmlapoint (Sep 4, 2008)

Kerry Irons said:


> The key question is whether the viscous oil will actually penetrate into all the nooks and crannies and displace what is there already.


Thanks Kerry.
Maybe the thick lube would work with a carrier like Mineral Spirits, or maybe I could heat the thick lube in a microwave to get it to flow/penetrate better?
Chain-L is very thick, and they recommend heating the chain or heating the Chain-L lube to get it to flow/penetrate better.
john


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## Kerry Irons (Feb 25, 2002)

jmlapoint said:


> Maybe the thick lube would work with a carrier like Mineral Spirits


That is exactly the Home Brew recipe: 3 to 4 parts of OMS (odorless mineral spirits) to one part oil. People have used motor oil, gear lube, etc. with great success. Any solvent will work but OMS is the least stinky of the choices. You thoroughly wet the chain, pedal for a minute or so, then wipe the excess off with a rag. That way the external part of the chain has minimal oil on it so you get minimal dirt pickup. The interior parts of the chain are well lubed once the solvent evaporates. You do the lube after a ride so the solvent has a day to dry off.


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## froze (Sep 15, 2002)

I would not use motor oil, it's a dirt magnet, but it would work to keep the chain lubed in a pinch. We use to use a mix of motor oil and solvent when I was kid on our bikes, some of us use straight oil, didn't matter if mixed or not dirt just sucked onto the chain. But we were kids and no one cared the chain had all sorts of dirt and vermin attached to it.


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## jmlapoint (Sep 4, 2008)

Kerry Irons said:


> That is exactly the Home Brew recipe: 3 to 4 parts of OMS (odorless mineral spirits) to one part oil.


Kerry:
Thanks.
For some reason, I thought the Home Brew Ratio was *3-Parts OIL* to *1-Part OMS*.

This would provide more *OIL* and less but still effective *OMS.
*
Confused, like always.

john


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## danl1 (Jul 23, 2005)

Kerry Irons said:


> The key question is whether the viscous oil will actually penetrate into all the nooks and crannies and displace what is there already. This issue is why ProLink is effective - as a very thin solution of oil and solvent it easily penetrates and displaces (or at least dilutes) whatever is inside the chain rollers and between the chain plates. Then the solvent evaporates leaving the lube in place. It is not clear that you will get this effect by just applying the heavy lube directly.


not taking a side, but it's also argued that the thin solvents also allow the grit on the outside of the chain to be carried with the oil to the inner parts. And once the solvent evaporates, there's precious little oil left. Not a lot of oil is required for lubrication, but one of it's important roles is to be a 'filler' in those little spaces, helping to keep the dirt out of there in the first place. 

And almost any reasonably normal viscosity oil will wick in just fine. 

Both choices have their merits and drawbacks, none are ideal in all situations, IMO. 

For me, I found homebrew to be too messy, flinging stuff around (yeah, I know all about night before and wiping.) A straight application of oil has been both less messy and lasted longer so far. I can't say anything about chain life just yet. I used motor oil for a while, but I'm liking bar and chain oil a bit better. Just a bit more clingy.


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## Touch0Gray (May 29, 2003)

danl1 said:


> not taking a side, but it's also argued that the thin solvents also allow the grit on the outside of the chain to be carried with the oil to the inner parts. And once the solvent evaporates, there's precious little oil left. Not a lot of oil is required for lubrication, but one of it's important roles is to be a 'filler' in those little spaces, helping to keep the dirt out of there in the first place.
> 
> And almost any reasonably normal viscosity oil will wick in just fine.
> 
> ...


fwiw, there are quite a few biodegradable bar lubes out there, mostly vegetable oils. I use them all the time with my chainsaw, since it is literally being sprayed all over my property, I prefer not to use a dino based. Bar lube is made for chain lubrication at MUCH higher rpm than a bike chain ....


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## Kerry Irons (Feb 25, 2002)

*Dirt magnet*



froze said:


> I would not use motor oil, it's a dirt magnet, but it would work to keep the chain lubed in a pinch. We use to use a mix of motor oil and solvent when I was kid on our bikes, some of us use straight oil, didn't matter if mixed or not dirt just sucked onto the chain. But we were kids and no one cared the chain had all sorts of dirt and vermin attached to it.


If you used some equivalent of home brew (oil plus solvent) and are experiencing a "dirt magnet" situation then you were doing it wrong.

Assuming we're talking road riding, use the following technique for successful ProLink or homebrew lube (1 part motor oil to 3-4 parts odorless mineral spirits) application and use:

1 - wipe the chain, cogs, pulleys, and chain rings clean with a rag. If there is gunk on the cogs, floss between them with a rag wet with OMS. 
2 – shift to the big ring and the smallest cog and drip on lube while pedaling slowly so that the chain just starts to drip lube. Aim the lube between the side plates and between the bushings and the side plates. 
3 - keep pedaling the cranks for a minute or so to loosen all the dirt on the chain and to get full penetration of the lube. 
4 - thoroughly wipe the chain, cogs, pulleys, and chain rings clean with a rag. 
5 - repeat steps 2-4 if the chain was really dirty 

Do this AFTER a ride, as you want to allow time for the solvent to evaporate before you head out on the road. If you do this every 300 miles or so (or when you get caught in the rain or other dirty conditions), you will not get any significant gunky buildup, and you won't have to remove the chain or the cassette to clean it , and no separate cleaning is ever required. This leaves lube on the inside parts, and wipes it off the outside parts, minimizing dirt pickup.

No lube is "perfect." A bright shiny chain that is clean to the touch but is well lubed and gives long mileage is still not possible. IMO, ProLink/home brew is the best compromise among commercial lubes. Other people have different opinions.


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## Kerry Irons (Feb 25, 2002)

danl1 said:


> not taking a side, but it's also argued that the thin solvents also allow the grit on the outside of the chain to be carried with the oil to the inner parts. And once the solvent evaporates, there's precious little oil left. Not a lot of oil is required for lubrication, but one of it's important roles is to be a 'filler' in those little spaces, helping to keep the dirt out of there in the first place.
> 
> And almost any reasonably normal viscosity oil will wick in just fine.
> 
> ...


If you were getting home brew flinging off the chain then you were either not wiping it off enough (right after application) or you rode too soon after application. If you were left with grit in your chain then you needed to repeat the application. I've been using ProLink or home brew for over a decade with excellent chain life, quiet chains, and no flinging of lube. For the oil in home brew you can use motor oil, gear lube, chain saw bar oil or whatever you like. The solvent in home brew or ProLink serves to slurry all the grit so when you wipe off the excess you are removing the grit as well. The chain is smooth and clean after a correct application.


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## looigi (Nov 24, 2010)

Kerry Irons said:


> ... The chain is smooth and clean after a correct application.


Only on the outside... It's still dirty and gritty between the moving parts where it wears, perhaps more from the wiping pushing the grit into the chain.


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## threebikes (Feb 1, 2009)

Has anyone tried Bacon grease?


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## froze (Sep 15, 2002)

threebikes said:


> Has anyone tried Bacon grease?


Yeah, and it works great for doing intervals. For you see, every dog around will come to chase you so they can lick the chain, but that motivates you to pedal faster to try to outrun all the dogs and thus interval training by motivation.


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## lbkwak (Feb 22, 2012)

looigi said:


> Only on the outside... It's still dirty and gritty between the moving parts where it wears, perhaps more from the wiping pushing the grit into the chain.


The whole point of lube+solvent application is to penetrate and flush out the dirty contaminant.


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## Kerry Irons (Feb 25, 2002)

looigi said:


> Only on the outside... It's still dirty and gritty between the moving parts where it wears, perhaps more from the wiping pushing the grit into the chain.


The key word is "perhaps." As I said I have way over a decade of experience with ProLink and home brew. My chains last a really long time. After I do a "sluice lube" treatment there is no gritty sound or feeling as I pedal. When a chain is dirty, you get that gritty sound/feeling. If you want to believe that a solvent-diluted lube doesn't work that is your privilege. Lots and lots and lots of people have great luck with it.


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## Goforit (Dec 7, 2011)

Not an expert on lubes but been riding bikes for over 40 years from working out to racing and back to working out, averaging 9000 to 10000 miles per year. Tried almost every lube out there................. just get Chain-L and be done with it.


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## Ajax1945 (Aug 9, 2012)

Here is my 2 cents: I was a Ducati mechanic well over 40 years and a bicyclist for the last 15 of those. I do all of my own work, but I will confine my response to bicycles. I would describe myself as anal when it comes to cleanliness, and I am very particular about my chain. I own an old skillet. At 500 miles the chain comes off and goes through swishing in that skillet for a good 2 minutes, 3 times, after which the solvent ( I use naptha ) remains clean, indicating the majority of debris is removed. After letting it dry, I use only White Lightening, which I find not only keeps my drive-train quiet, but resists accumulating dirt. Of course, I clean my bike after each ride, but I always install a new chain after 1000 miles, which may be viewed as excessive and overly expensive. But the result is that , the wear on the old chain is barely discernible and except for wanting different gearing, I've never worn-out a cassette needlessly. Am I recommending others do this? Of course not. Like I said, I am a bit anal. Just my 2 cents.


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## SauronHimself (Nov 21, 2012)

Am I the only one who saw this thread's title and went, "Giggidy."?


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## Oxtox (Aug 16, 2006)

my chain maint procedure is very complicated...

wipe chain with a clean rag. 

put a tiny drop of Chain-L on each link, rotate the cranks a few times, let sit over nite and then wipe down again.

ride for 500-750 miles, repeat.

chain never comes off the bike and solvent never touches it. KMC chains last 6-8K miles...


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## froze (Sep 15, 2002)

Oxtox said:


> my chain maint procedure is very complicated...
> 
> wipe chain with a clean rag.
> 
> ...


I like it. I like uncomplicated things too, which is one of the things I like about Chain L. But I still clean the chains using Chain L about every 500 miles with the Finish Line Chain Cleaning machine. I do believe you need to get road grit off as well as tiny particles of metal from the chain wearing off the chain if you want the chain to last longer. The chain cleaning machines make that work uncomplicated and fast...but fast doesn't mean to back pedal the chain through one of those cleaners fast, you have to pedal very slowly or splatter will occur.


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## froze (Sep 15, 2002)

There is no need for solvent today to penetrate and flush out the chain because chains aren't made like they use to be with the old bushing design, today they use bushingless so there is no interior flushing to worry about. All you want today is to get the grit off the surface facing of the chain and a Chain Cleaning machine is more the adequate for that. With bushing chains a chain wash could wash the grit into the inside of the bushing, the bushingless prevents that and instead they by design help to flush the grit out. It's this design that makes chain cleaning machines all you need to clean your chain with; also some of those chain cleaning machines come with a magnet at the bottom of the cleaning area were the solvent sits, this magnet attracts all the metal particles to keep that stuff from be redeposited back onto the chain as you clean.


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## NWS Alpine (Mar 16, 2012)

Chain-L is all I will ever use. Proper first application is critical.

I have stripped and applied it to two friends and they were shocked. The chain was so quiet that they started hearing other noises that were always there but the chain would drown them out. If your friend is an OCD freak about random noises then Chain-L will drive them nuts with a silent chain


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## jmlapoint (Sep 4, 2008)

Goforit said:


> Not an expert on lubes but been riding bikes for over 40 years from working out to racing and back to working out, averaging 9000 to 10000 miles per year. Tried almost every lube out there................. just get Chain-L and be done with it.


I am in total agreement. I have tried lots of lubes and always come back to Chain-L.
It penetrates nicely, excess removal is easy, and my chain is smooth and quiet.
Not expensive, and lasts a long time.


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## jmlapoint (Sep 4, 2008)

Oxtox said:


> my chain maint procedure is very complicated...
> 
> wipe chain with a clean rag.
> 
> ...


I do about the same. I think it is important to wipe chain clean after applying Chain-L, and I wipe down after each ride. Chain is smooth and quiet. I never take chain off, but put on a new chain every January. I ride Fixed, and my Chainring and Cog last forever.
john


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## jmlapoint (Sep 4, 2008)

NWS Alpine said:


> Chain-L is all I will ever use. Proper first application is critical.
> 
> I have stripped and applied it to two friends and they were shocked. The chain was so quiet that they started hearing other noises that were always there but the chain would drown them out. If your friend is an OCD freak about random noises then Chain-L will drive them nuts with a silent chain


I totally agree. I hate noise, and with Chain-L I am always listening for that noise that dosen't occur!
john


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## jmlapoint (Sep 4, 2008)

froze said:


> I like it. I like uncomplicated things too, which is one of the things I like about Chain L. But I still clean the chains using Chain L about every 500 miles with the Finish Line Chain Cleaning machine. I do believe you need to get road grit off as well as tiny particles of metal from the chain wearing off the chain if you want the chain to last longer. The chain cleaning machines make that work uncomplicated and fast...but fast doesn't mean to back pedal the chain through one of those cleaners fast, you have to pedal very slowly or splatter will occur.


I used to use a machine to clean, but now I just wipe the chain with a solvent rag and blow with air-gun while rotating the chain thru a rag. Once the chain doesn't leave a residue on a dry rag it is ready for re-lube.
john


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## mudrock (Jun 4, 2008)

moved post


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## mudrock (Jun 4, 2008)

I use chainsaw lube cut w OMS 50/50, shake it up in a little Finish Line bottle,and dribble on. But Velo (March issue) just came out with a chain lube test, measuring in watts for efficiency, and parrafin wax beat everything. Rock-n-Roll and the teflon based lubes came in next, but parrafin beat everything in watts used, and the differences were more pronounced in their longevity test (spray w dirt/sand/water and run 60 minutes). Plus it's clean. The only pain is application, have to melt it in pan and dip your chain, but the test got 600 miles between applications, unless used in the wet a lot.


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## jmlapoint (Sep 4, 2008)

mudrock said:


> I use chainsaw lube cut w OMS 50/50, shake it up in a little Finish Line bottle,and dribble on. But Velo (March issue) just came out with a chain lube test, measuring in watts for efficiency, and parrafin wax beat everything. Rock-n-Roll and the teflon based lubes came in next, but parrafin beat everything in watts used, and the differences were more pronounced in their longevity test (spray w dirt/sand/water and run 60 minutes). Plus it's clean. The only pain is application, have to melt it in pan and dip your chain, but the test got 600 miles between applications, unless used in the wet a lot.


Reminds me of the old days.
When racing in the 70's we used to use 2 chains. One on bike and spare that we would dip in hot melted paraffin wax (large empty juice can on a hot-plate) and then hang chain on a hook over the wax pot to drip and dry. What a pain that was.
Sometimes the good old days are only good in our memories. Thanks!
john


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## froze (Sep 15, 2002)

mudrock said:


> I use chainsaw lube cut w OMS 50/50, shake it up in a little Finish Line bottle,and dribble on. But Velo (March issue) just came out with a chain lube test, measuring in watts for efficiency, and parrafin wax beat everything. Rock-n-Roll and the teflon based lubes came in next, but parrafin beat everything in watts used, and the differences were more pronounced in their longevity test (spray w dirt/sand/water and run 60 minutes). Plus it's clean. The only pain is application, have to melt it in pan and dip your chain, but the test got 600 miles between applications, unless used in the wet a lot.


Sorry but the parrafin wax is unsuitable in wet climates. Wet climates will wash off the wax and wax offers no rust protection.

If waxing is your chain is your thing then it's easy and cheap just to use good old natural liquid Car Wax!! Make sure it's natural and not synthetic. Simply drip it on the chain while still attached to the bike like you would with any lube, then let it dry overnight. Obviously first clean your chain real well before applying any new lube or wax.


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## lbkwak (Feb 22, 2012)

froze said:


> There is no need for solvent today to penetrate and flush out the chain because chains aren't made like they use to be with the old bushing design, today they use bushingless so there is no interior flushing to worry about. All you want today is to get the grit off the surface facing of the chain and a Chain Cleaning machine is more the adequate for that. With bushing chains a chain wash could wash the grit into the inside of the bushing, the bushingless prevents that and instead they by design help to flush the grit out. It's this design that makes chain cleaning machines all you need to clean your chain with; also some of those chain cleaning machines come with a magnet at the bottom of the cleaning area were the solvent sits, this magnet attracts all the metal particles to keep that stuff from be redeposited back onto the chain as you clean.


I don't know where to start with this one.


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## jmlapoint (Sep 4, 2008)

Anybody ever try *STP Oil Treatment* or *Motor Honey* from Auto Parts Store. Both are very thick and stick well to the chain. Both appear to penetrate well and the outside of the chain is easily cleaned by rotating chain thru a rag until no residue on rag. The few times I tried them, chain was very quiet and easily wiped clean after ride with rag.
I do ride Fixed and spin my chain thru a rag after every ride.
john


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## froze (Sep 15, 2002)

lbkwak said:


> I don't know where to start with this one.


By not beginning.


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## lbkwak (Feb 22, 2012)

froze said:


> By not beginning.


Correct. It's not worth it.


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## mudrock (Jun 4, 2008)

froze said:


> Sorry but the parrafin wax is unsuitable in wet climates. Wet climates will wash off the wax and wax offers no rust protection.


Yes that's been the accepted wisdom on wax, but Velo's testers have a different experience. I had some laying around for my cross-country skis, so I melted some and dunked the chain on my single speed. went to my LBS and got some Chain-L for my cross bike. Guess i'm in the mood to experiment. If only the weather would cooperate.


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## cajer (Mar 6, 2012)

mudrock said:


> I use chainsaw lube cut w OMS 50/50, shake it up in a little Finish Line bottle,and dribble on. But Velo (March issue) just came out with a chain lube test, measuring in watts for efficiency, and parrafin wax beat everything. Rock-n-Roll and the teflon based lubes came in next, but parrafin beat everything in watts used, and the differences were more pronounced in their longevity test (spray w dirt/sand/water and run 60 minutes). Plus it's clean. The only pain is application, have to melt it in pan and dip your chain, but the test got 600 miles between applications, unless used in the wet a lot.


Do you happen to know which normal lubes come out on top and how many watts was the difference between the winner and loser and the top few?


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## froze (Sep 15, 2002)

mudrock said:


> Yes that's been the accepted wisdom on wax, but Velo's testers have a different experience. I had some laying around for my cross-country skis, so I melted some and dunked the chain on my single speed. went to my LBS and got some Chain-L for my cross bike. Guess i'm in the mood to experiment. If only the weather would cooperate.


I experiment all the time with my bikes, that's part of the fun of cycling to see what works best.

Many years ago when I first got into cycling I did that hot wax dunking crap for about 2 or 3 years then switched to Tri Flow which I liked better. When I was doing the hot wax crap about half way into doing it that way I experimented with mixing Slick 50 into the mix at about 10 percent Slick 50 to wax, it seemed to work better then wax alone. Sometime after that Dupont sold the Slick 50 to some other company who in turn could no longer use Dupont Teflon due to licensing and had to use another lower grade of teflon. Once I figured out that adding Teflon seemed to work better I went to Tri Flow and it did work better then wax, my chains lasted longer but didn't look as clean. About 25 year later I went back to the wax in a bottle because an LBS was ranting about it, I tried several different kinds of bottled wax and my chain life went from 13,000 miles to just 6,000 miles. The first time my chain wore out fast I thought it was fluke so kept using the wax crap on the new chain with the same short life result. After switching to Finish Line Teflon Dry Plus and getting a new chain (same brand of chain) the chain life went back up again. 

Fluke? I don't think so. I had to take a bottle of wax lube whenever I wanted to ride more then 60 miles because the chain would start to make noise...and where there is noise there is metal to metal contact going on, and where there is metal to metal contact going on there is wear going on. Even the wax lovers will tell you to carry a bottle of wax with you to reapply when you start hearing noises...Really? And some how that's a good thing? Even Finish Line's web site says you have to reply the wax lube anywhere between 50 to 150 miles. I'm sorry, but I'm not buying into this all wax is better stuff. The Finish Line Dry Teflon oil is a mixture of oil, teflon and wax I think, but it holds up far better then wax like Pedros or White Lightening.


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## jmlapoint (Sep 4, 2008)

I use wet lubes like Chain-L, Home Brew, Motor oil, STP Oil Treatment, etc and find they all work well as long as you wipe the excess off the outside of the chain. I spin my chain thru a rag after each ride. I also coat the chain with Pledge or Paste Wax and spin thru a rag until clean. I don't think chain lubrication is rocket science.
Plain ole Mobil One Motor Oil works great as long as you wipe chain clean before and after ride. Seems to me we are making a simple thing more complex than necessary.
WIPE - WIPE - WIPE - RIDE - WIPE!
john


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## froze (Sep 15, 2002)

jmlapoint said:


> I use wet lubes like Chain-L, Home Brew, Motor oil, STP Oil Treatment, etc and find they all work well as long as you wipe the excess off the outside of the chain. I spin my chain thru a rag after each ride. I also coat the chain with Pledge or Paste Wax and spin thru a rag until clean. I don't think chain lubrication is rocket science.
> Plain ole Mobil One Motor Oil works great as long as you wipe chain clean before and after ride. Seems to me we are making a simple thing more complex than necessary.
> WIPE - WIPE - WIPE - RIDE - WIPE!
> john


I agree, it's not rocket science but a lot of it is snake oil science!

Question for you, when you use car wax on your chain is that before or after applying Chain L? Or are you talking about two different chains? I was thinking about applying both but wasn't sure how the two would interact with each other.

I won't use motor oil of any kind, it's dirt magnet, and any dirt getting attracted to the oil while riding is acting like sand paper on your gears and chain, and wiping down a chain will not get all the grit off of the rollers. This is why I'm a bit leery of Chain L when it comes to chain life, but I'm no where near the number of miles needed for me to determine that yet. And I wipe down my chains after every ride, but realize too that I'm not getting all the grit off by doing that; it's one of the reasons I clean my Chain L treated chains with solvent about every 400 miles because I don't trust the claims of 900 to 1,000 miles between cleaning. Having said that, if for some reason I needed to lube my chain and there was no lube around except motor oil then I would use it in a pinch...but that has never happened in 40 years of riding.

And being snake oil science, all varieties of chain lubes are a huge rip off when it comes to price vs container content size vs all the scientific mumbo jumbo promises. That's why I buy Finish Line because it's less expensive then most and it's dry to the touch, keeps the chain clean, and protects very well; but I think even the cheaper TriFlow is probably equally as good. 

Chain L is for me the only real unknown denominator that I'm still trying to determine if it's any good; I do know that for touring purposes where rain and a wet chain is always an issue, that it works better and longer then any other wet lube I ever used per application, and it doesn't splatter messing up the frame and wheels like others I've tried; but again, chain durability is still in question.


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## NWS Alpine (Mar 16, 2012)

You should never apply solvent to your chain with chain-l. Only time is to remove any other stuff before applying chain-l for the first time. There should be no lube on the rollers or the outside plates. Wipe it down and if you get some rust after a while then at that point wipe it down with a towel that has a tiny bit of dry lube. If you use solvent the chain-l that way inside the chain will now sling out and make a mess and you will be worse off.


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## froze (Sep 15, 2002)

NWS Alpine said:


> You should never apply solvent to your chain with chain-l. Only time is to remove any other stuff before applying chain-l for the first time. There should be no lube on the rollers or the outside plates. Wipe it down and if you get some rust after a while then at that point wipe it down with a towel that has a tiny bit of dry lube. If you use solvent the chain-l that way inside the chain will now sling out and make a mess and you will be worse off.


Interesting, I haven't had that happen though as far as the sling off goes. I use the Finish Line cleaning machine and of course wipe it down then wait for it to dry for about 12 hours which is longer then actually needed. Then I reapply the Chain L and wipe it down. I haven't noticed any sling out. Lately I've tried something different, but not sure yet if I like it, and that's using WD40 for a solvent, but it takes about 24 hours to dry. But I haven't had any sling off from using WD40 either.

I use a very small amount of the Chain L on each roller, then I wipe it down a lot, maybe that's why I don't get the sling off? What's weird is I don't even remove the chain and set it newspaper like Chain L says to do! Though I do let it set after the the initial 15 minute waiting time after application and then a wipe down, then let it set for about 24 hours before using.

I'm hoping it works in regards to chain life, it should because it does make the chain quieter then wax or wet lubes, but about the same as Finish Line Teflon Dry and probably TriFlow. I also don't notice less friction, if there is less friction it isn't something a person can notice while riding unless it's psychological! And for a lot of riders psychological impressions are important.


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## jmlapoint (Sep 4, 2008)

I try to avoid terms like 'never', 'always', and 'best'!!
I use solvent with Chain-L and have no problems. After a while with Chain-L, I remove it with solvent and start over with fresh layer of Chain-L. Let it penetrate and wipe clean. I also Pledge or wax my Chain-L chain. I run the chain thru a Pledge rag. Seems to clean outside of the chain and the Chain-L seems to be fine on the rollers. The trouble with Chain-L is it lasts TOO long and if you ride fixed, about the only thing you can fiddle with is the chain. I can lube and wipe chain everyday, but don't tell anyone.
john


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## jmlapoint (Sep 4, 2008)

I find the trouble with riding Fixed is that once you get your bike the way you like it, then you have very little to 'play' with...a little Pledge, wipe chain, check tire pressure....ride.
john


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## rdtindsm (Jan 16, 2013)

I've done the bit about boiling a chain in candle wax, and was never impressed. I've tried White Lighning and agree with those that say you shouldn't have to lube your chain during the middle of a ride.

Myths take on a life of their own. Eugene Sloane wrote his bicycle book in the mid 70's and the 25'th edition is available on amazon, even though it must be 10 yrs out of date in 2012. I can't comment on his latest editions, but he introduced a lot of people to the idea that the only good brake was a center pull, and welded frames were junk. You could find the unwashed commenting that a full campy bike didn't wasn't any good because the brakes were sidepull! I know I bought into some of that ****.

This leads to the observation that I had a British book on cycling. I don't know how current it was even at the time or the copyright date but the author recommended heating chains in paraffin for lubrication. I know that friends were doing that, and I even tried a time or two. My opinion was that all I got was a chain that could double as a candle until the old wax flaked of in a few days. White lightning was introduced about the same time

Paraffin is a synonym for kerosene in Britain (I just checked this). Dictionary says that it is a light oil, but perhaps gas could be considered to be a light oil too. 
I've always wondered if this was a the origin of a myth that has taken root along side creation science.


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## froze (Sep 15, 2002)

rdtindsm said:


> I've done the bit about boiling a chain in candle wax, and was never impressed. I've tried White Lighning and agree with those that say you shouldn't have to lube your chain during the middle of a ride.
> 
> Myths take on a life of their own. Eugene Sloane wrote his bicycle book in the mid 70's and the 25'th edition is available on amazon, even though it must be 10 yrs out of date in 2012. I can't comment on his latest editions, but he introduced a lot of people to the idea that the only good brake was a center pull, and welded frames were junk. You could find the unwashed commenting that a full campy bike didn't wasn't any good because the brakes were sidepull! I know I bought into some of that ****.
> 
> ...



You and I must be near the same age because I remember a lot that stuff you mentioned. I too remember when center pull brakes became the new rage of cycling, even Mafac came out with some really nice ones pro level ones too, problem was they were a pain to adjust properly, took more effort to activate, and they flexed more. But the rage of it was ever consuming, fortunately the rage was short lived on the high end market, not sure why they lasted a long time on the low end market because they had low end sidepulls as well.

I think in the old school days a welded frame was not as strong as a lugged frame, I saw plenty broken welded frames back in the day, even electrostatic flash welds of the heavy Schwinn Varsity's; nowadays with more modern welding techniques and better steel I don't think that is applicable any more. However from a personal standpoint, I personally like the looks of a lugged steel bike over any welded bike I've ever seen.

I like to ride with the least amount of maintenance as possible, and waxing a chain then only later while on a long ride I have re-wax the chain is just a waste of my time. It was an equally a waste of time that every time I come home from a ride when I used wax on my chain I had to relube for the next ride. Wax, either boiling it on or using any modern bottled wax is simply a waste of time and eventually a waste of money with the shorter life I got out of my chains.


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