# Chains: Dura Ace vs. Ultegra



## wgscott

Is a Dura Ace 11 speed chain any better than Ultegra? It is only a few bucks more, and if it shifts better and/or lasts longer, why not? OTOH, if it doesn't play nice with Ultegra cogs and sprocket, I don't want to make a mistake.


----------



## Sanders

The only benefit is a couple of grams in weight saving.
Fully compatible eitherway (with DA chain on Ultegra of Ultegra chain on DA system).
The price bump is not much either so you really can't go wrong with either one. 
Both quality products.


----------



## Srode

wgscott said:


> Is a Dura Ace 11 speed chain any better than Ultegra? It is only a few bucks more, and if it shifts better and/or lasts longer, why not? OTOH, if it doesn't play nice with Ultegra cogs and sprocket, I don't want to make a mistake.


It works fine on Ultegra, done it a couple times for the same reason you have, only a few bucks difference. Didn't notice any difference in shifting really.


----------



## kiwisimon

any difference in durability?


----------



## looigi

If you believe Shamano, yes. They say they use special materials and coatings on DA chains that reduce friction and increase chain life. I haven't directly or scientifically compared DA to Ultegra chains but among the chains I've used DAs do seem to last the longest.


----------



## cxwrench

If you want a chain that really lasts a long time put a Campy Record on. They aren't a better _value_ because they cost a bunch more but they do last a bunch longer than Shimano.


----------



## nhluhr

First of all, it is important to note that both the CN-9000 (Dura-Ace) and CN-6800 (Ultegra) non-directional chains are no longer available.

The new chains, CN-HG900-11 and CN-HG700-11 are a result of development for 11spd MTB drivetrains and in testing, Shimano found that these XTr/Dura-Ace and XT/Ultegra level chains benefit from their directionality and outperform both the old chains in road shifting performance. Also of note is that the 'special coating' is not only used on Dura-Ace chains. The special plating, called Sil-Tec is used on all the 11spd chains, but in varying degrees. Here is the cheat-sheet:










Of note is that the higher the level of chain, the more of the parts of it are treated with that special nickel-PTFE plating process. Aside from the rollers being Sil-Tec plated, there is also a very slighy reduction in weight thanks to the hollow pins but really, chain weight is not an issue. The real benefit of the top level chain is that Sil-Tec plating on all the friction surfaces of the chain, even the rollers.


----------



## Marc

cxwrench said:


> If you want a chain that really lasts a long time put a Campy Record on. They aren't a better _value_ because they cost a bunch more but they do last a bunch longer than Shimano.


Only cost a bunch more here in the USA.

$40/chain: Campagnolo 11 Spd Record Chain, Chains, CHAINS


----------



## wgscott

Thanks. Just ordered the CN-HG900-11. I think I have less than a month left on the old one.


----------



## dcgriz

looigi said:


> If you believe Shamano, yes. They say they use special materials and coatings on DA chains that reduce friction and increase chain life. I haven't directly or scientifically compared DA to Ultegra chains but among the chains I've used DAs do seem to last the longest.


Same here. I always use DA chains and derailleurs and Ultegra cassettes.


----------



## Jay Strongbow

cxwrench said:


> If you want a chain that really lasts a long time put a Campy Record on. They aren't a better _value_ because they cost a bunch more but they do last a bunch longer than Shimano.


Sorry for the threadjack but: Does anyone have any exerience and care to comment on how a Campy record chain would work with Shimano? 7900 10 speed with Ultegra or 105 cassette in my case.
Not a big deal but if I could replace chains less often and not lose performance that would be cool. Not for financial reasons but it's a bit of a PITA so less frequent would be welcome.


----------



## fast ferd

Jay Strongbow said:


> Sorry for the threadjack but: Does anyone have any exerience and care to comment on how a Campy record chain would work with Shimano? 7900 10 speed with Ultegra or 105 cassette in my case.
> Not a big deal but if I could replace chains less often and not lose performance that would be cool. Not for financial reasons but it's a bit of a PITA so less frequent would be welcome.


I always wondered about this, too. Shoot, going back twenty years now. But never took on the expirement. With all his wrenching experience, it sounds like CXwrench did this before and it probably works fine.

FWIW, I did use a Campy seatpost with my all-DuraAce bike a couple times.


----------



## Not a hill

*HG900-11 Vs HG700-11*



wgscott said:


> Thanks. Just ordered the CN-HG900-11. I think I have less than a month left on the old one.


Like most people it s the coatings on more parts that interest me. I am wondering will it run more smooth? Just wondering if my Park Tool CT3.2 will work OK with the hollow pins ? What is the best chain lube to use with this chain ? I am running full 6870 DI2 with 52/36 crank and 11/28 cassette.


----------



## cxwrench

Not a hill said:


> Like most people it s the coatings on more parts that interest me. I am wondering will it run more smooth? Just wondering if my Park Tool CT3.2 will work OK with the hollow pins ? What is the best chain lube to use with this chain ? I am running full 6870 DI2 with 52/36 crank and 11/28 cassette.


The pins are the same size as any other chain pin, so of course any chain tool will work.


----------



## Not a hill

I understand that. It more that as the pin is hollow will the anvil of the chain tool not sit into the pilot as start to widening it


----------



## bluesky6

dcgriz said:


> Same here. I always use DA chains and derailleurs and Ultegra cassettes.


I had the same quandary as the OP. My Scott Addict came with a 105 chain and when I decided to "upgrade" the cassette, it was Ultegra vs DA. The difference in price was small in absolute terms and I went with the DA (HG-901-11 asym).

Would Ultegra (6800) shifters work with at DA 9000-series rear derailleur? If I decide to stick with the 12-28 Bdop cassette on the Addict, I might make the upgrade.

I'd love to make the DA rear derailleur a default upgrade but Shimano does not make a gs version. My other road bikes have 11-32 cassettes.


----------



## wgscott

Not a hill said:


> Like most people it s the coatings on more parts that interest me. I am wondering will it run more smooth? Just wondering if my Park Tool CT3.2 will work OK with the hollow pins ? What is the best chain lube to use with this chain ? I am running full 6870 DI2 with 52/36 crank and 11/28 cassette.


My highly subjective opinion is that this chain is slightly noisier and less smooth, but it could be just a new chain on somewhat worn cogs and cassettes.



bluesky6 said:


> I had the same quandary as the OP. My Scott Addict came with a 105 chain and when I decided to "upgrade" the cassette, it was Ultegra vs DA. The difference in price was small in absolute terms and I went with the DA (HG-901-11 asym).
> 
> Would Ultegra (6800) shifters work with at DA 9000-series rear derailleur? If I decide to stick with the 12-28 Bdop cassette on the Addict, I might make the upgrade.
> 
> I'd love to make the DA rear derailleur a default upgrade but Shimano does not make a gs version. My other road bikes have 11-32 cassettes.


I have and want to keep my 11-32 ultegra cassette.


----------



## Lombard

bluesky6 said:


> Would Ultegra (6800) shifters work with at DA 9000-series rear derailleur? If I decide to stick with the 12-28 Bdop cassette on the Addict, I might make the upgrade.


I believe they should work since they are the same generation and therefore the pull ratios match.


----------



## bluesky6

Lombard said:


> I believe they should work since they are the same generation and therefore the pull ratios match.


Thanks. I'll put them in the shopping list


----------



## Jay Strongbow

bluesky6 said:


> I had the same quandary as the OP. My Scott Addict came with a 105 chain and when I decided to "upgrade" the cassette, it was Ultegra vs DA. The difference in price was small in absolute terms and I went with the DA (HG-901-11 asym).
> 
> Would Ultegra (6800) shifters work with at DA 9000-series rear derailleur? If I decide to stick with the 12-28 Bdop cassette on the Addict, I might make the upgrade.
> 
> I'd love to make the DA rear derailleur a default upgrade but Shimano does not make a gs version. My other road bikes have 11-32 cassettes.


It'll work but don't waste your money. There's not advantage to having a Dura Ace rear derailleur. Spend it on something that'll actually give you an improvement.


----------



## Lombard

Jay Strongbow said:


> It'll work but don't waste your money. There's not advantage to having a Dura Ace rear derailleur. Spend it on something that'll actually give you an improvement.



I would agree with this. A rear derailleur is really a dumb device (basically a spring). The shifters and crankset are the most expensive parts of the groupset for a good reason. Derailleurs are cheap, but noticeable. So if you just want your friends to know how much money you spend on your bike, by all means go for the 9000 RD. 

I got the Ultegra 6800 full groupset last winter. Shifting is sublime. I can't imagine getting any better than this.


----------



## Stoneman

I snapped a Dura Ace HG-900-11 chain during a mountain bike race this past week. The shop replaced it with an Ultegra HG-700-11 chain. I'm hoping it'll be a little stronger than the Dura Ace chain. FYI, I run an XTR 11 speed drivetrain on my MTB.


----------



## Trek_5200

i recall Art's cyclery did a piece on this. They reccomended Ultegra as the better option for chains.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QdPefZ27Ne4


----------



## bluesky6

Lombard said:


> I got the Ultegra 6800 full groupset last winter. Shifting is sublime. I can't imagine getting any better than this.


Have you actually tried out a Dura Ace groupset and compare?


----------



## Lombard

bluesky6 said:


> Have you actually tried out a Dura Ace groupset and compare?


 
Well, no. I'm actually afraid I might like it.


----------



## Blue CheeseHead

Lombard said:


> Well, no. I'm actually afraid I might like it.


DA 9000 came on my bike and it's very nice, but I doubt there is any functional difference between that and Ultegra 6800. DA certainly was not the reason for the purchase of my bike.

As far as chains go, Dura Ace, Ultegra or similar from KMC work fine.


----------



## Lombard

Blue CheeseHead said:


> DA 9000 came on my bike and it's very nice, but I doubt there is any functional difference between that and Ultegra 6800. DA certainly was not the reason for the purchase of my bike.



As you go up the hierarchy, it appears to be a law of diminishing returns. It is doubtful that someone who is used to riding Tourney will notice the difference in shifting between Tiagra and 105.


----------



## wgscott

wgscott said:


> Thanks. Just ordered the CN-HG900-11. I think I have less than a month left on the old one.


This didn't last very long. I can squeeze the measuring gauge in for the 0.5 stretch now, so I reckon it will soon be time to trash this one. I took better care of it than the ultegra one too. My sense was it has been slightly noisier, and now I can hear what sounds like a weak link, so I may change it out early. (I bought two of the XTR chains last August, so I guess I should use that one first.)


----------



## Blue CheeseHead

wgscott said:


> This didn't last very long. I can squeeze the measuring gauge in for the 0.5 stretch now, so I reckon it will soon be time to trash this one. I took better care of it than the ultegra one too. My sense was it has been slightly noisier, and now I can hear what sounds like a weak link, so I may change it out early. (I bought two of the XTR chains last August, so I guess I should use that one first.)


There are MANY threads about how those chain measuring tools suck. Better to use a good ruler or measure the old chain against a new one. If the old chain is 1/2" longer than the new one, replace it.


----------



## wgscott

I also checked it with a ruler. I never understood why people say these things suck. What they measure is the distance between 12 rollers. If that increases, regardless of the reason, it is going to start to trash your cassette.


----------

