# 2017 Shimano Dura-Ace Di2?



## tranzformer




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## jfaas

No chain yet?


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## wgscott

I #knew there must be something #innovative.


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## PoorInRichfield

Unless it has a built-in power meter somewhere, I fail to see why Shimano would release a "new" Dura Ace that doesn't offer anything the prior version didn't already have. I doubt that most cyclists will dump their existing group set just to get a new set that is a new color.


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## vic bastige

PoorInRichfield said:


> Unless it has a built-in power meter somewhere, I fail to see why Shimano would release a "new" Dura Ace that doesn't offer anything the prior version didn't already have. I doubt that most cyclists will dump their existing group set just to get a new set that is a new color.


If not something innovative it is probably because it's lighter, stiffer, smoother...blah, blah etc.


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## spdntrxi

the crank pictured has a powermeter.. you can just see a little black box in the opening of the chainring


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## tranzformer

PoorInRichfield said:


> Unless it has a built-in power meter somewhere, I fail to see why Shimano would release a "new" Dura Ace that doesn't offer anything the prior version didn't already have.


There is a power meter there and looks like the one FDJ has been spotted with on their bikes.


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## MMsRepBike

That's the one.

This pre-release stuff is great.


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## PoorInRichfield

I shutter to think of how much Dura Ace Di2 with a dual leg power meter is going to cost  Hopefully an Ultegra version won't be far behind, but far enough behind to give me a chance to sell a kidney or something.


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## thumper8888

PoorInRichfield said:


> Unless it has a built-in power meter somewhere, I fail to see why Shimano would release a "new" Dura Ace that doesn't offer anything the prior version didn't already have. I doubt that most cyclists will dump their existing group set just to get a new set that is a new color.


They're def. doing 9170. It's the end of the normal marketing cycle for 9070.
They probably have power meter for the group, but that's number three on the priority list. Number two is that here will be accommodation for Dura-Ace level hydraulic discs, which are crucial for the way the market is shifting.
But the main this is that this will be wireless. 
It would be marketing suicide otherwise. There is no way in the world that Shimano is going to lock itself into three years more of wired when SRAM is already in wireless at its top end. If they did that, even Campy would get out ahead.
And yes there is a visible wire for the rear mech, but it's sitting oddly flat. I smell a decoy wire.
Then Ultegra Di2 will go wireless.
Or maybe they'll call it Di3 for this family.


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## tranzformer




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## PoorInRichfield

thumper8888 said:


> But the main this is that this will be wireless.
> It would be marketing suicide otherwise.


While I personally think that Shimano will have to come-out with wireless shifting to compete with SRAM at some point, this article posted on BikeRadar.com not too long ago suggests that Shimano isn't going the wireless route anytime soon. 

I'm wondering if SRAM really caught Shimano by surprise with e-Tap. If Shimano didn't already have wireless in the product pipeline long before e-Tap was released, then we won't see it any time soon unless Shimano is the most organized and efficient company in the world


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## tranzformer

PoorInRichfield said:


> While I personally think that Shimano will have to come-out with wireless shifting to compete with SRAM at some point, this article posted on BikeRadar.com not too long ago suggests that Shimano isn't going the wireless route anytime soon.


Question is what does a wireless SRAM eTap provide over Di2? Sure no wires (except for the sprint/climbing buttons are still wired) is useful for older frames that weren't designed for electronic groups and for which an owner doesn't want to run external Di2 or custom drill their frame. I understand that. 

But now, most modern frames come ready for mechanical and or electric. So don't see the SRAM as being a big upgrade, especially once the bike is built and used. Not like you are going to be swapping group sets back and forth between bikes every day where the ease of eTap would save a lot of time. 

So really, I don't see the need for Shimano to go wireless just because SRAM did. If it ain't broke, don't fix it.


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## spdntrxi

^ I agree with that .. maybe with TT bikes and the new aero bikes (MADONE/VIAS) where the gearing is the PITA part of the setup. For me, being wired is no big deal. With the computer box and Di2... I can really go to town on customization.


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## tranzformer

Except the eTap TT doesn't have any less exposed cables than the Di2 system and with the larger box, probably harder to hide somewhere inside of the frame.











I don't think that improves any upon what Shimano has for their system. Looks like a wash to me, so really one should just pick the brand/shifting they like better. As in setup is going to be very close to each other, with Shimano having a few extra wires than the SRAM, but if you have a modern frame doing the Di2 install shouldn't be a problem.


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## spdntrxi

I hear ya.. I had no issues w/9070 and my BMC TM01.. really easy to run the wires in the frame...


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## tranzformer

Yeah I agree. No problem with my Di2 either. It isn't like mechanical where every season you might want new cables and housing and have to deal with internally routing everything. Di2 should be set and forget (assuming you properly seated all the wires and have enough slack in the wires so that they won't come undone). 

If Shimano wants to go wireless, I can see why. But I don't feel like they have to. Di2 is spot on and bomb proof. Nothing to improve upon except for price and maybe weight.


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## Cinelli 82220

9070 has one battery to charge, instead of four. Just plug it in and it charges. 
And as already said, all the wires are inside my frame anyway, so it looks fairly wireless.
Been using it for almost three years and not even needed to adjust the derailleurs.


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## TmB123

Shimano didn't jump on the carbon crank fad just because it was cool, they preferred to stay with what worked for them, so maybe they'll do the same with Di2 as well, stick with wires and not follow the latest trend.


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## Mr645

Saves 9 seconds over a 40 miles ride at 53 kph compared to .X.X.X


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## Ritsuke

I'd love to see a new 2017 DA group only because it would cut the price on the current sets. :aureola:


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## MMsRepBike

Should have an announcement of sorts this week. April is coming.


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## zootsuitbass

XT DI2 Wireless was announced.


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## TmB123

zootsuitbass said:


> XT DI2 Wireless was announced.


Wireless configuration and fine tuning - not wireless shifting.


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## zootsuitbass

Ohh,, My Bad.


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## carbonLORD

From what I gather the new Dura Ace Di2 9170 will incorporate a clutch style rear derailleur similar to XTR Di2, it will also incorporate the new wireless junction box which allows for wireless eTube programmability which is now iOS capable meaning no more wires connected to your PC and Mac users can rejoyce. I also spy a new disc rotor as well as direct mount caliper, crank and as others noted power meter which I can only assume will be BlueTooth/Ant+ capable.

Cross compatibility between Shimano's mountain and road groupsets is already a reality. Current Ultegra Di2 users can use a XTR Di2 junction box if they want to see what gear they are in, on the fly. The added functionality of the new XT Di2 will expand on its capabilities and trickle over to Dura Ace Di2 and I am hoping for a clutch style rear derailleur to follow the road market.

Having one battery that controls an entire system far outweighs two rechargeable and 2 CR2032 batteries that require replacement. You still have to run brake cables and if you have a simple Park Tools cable routing tool running e-Tube wires is a cinch. Set it and forget it. It will take me all of 20 minutes to upgrade my derailleurs to the new DuraAce Di2 from my existing Ultegra Di2 assuming I can get away with F/R Derailleur and a new junction box.

Only reason I use Ultegra is because it is black. Silver parts on an all black build is not my cup of tea so I am definitely excited for the new look, and hopefully new features this groupset has to offer.


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## stunzeed

I want to go electric and have been considering waiting for eTap to go with a medium cage but it looks like Shimano may have beat them to it. I am excited about this group for the medium cage as I felt theUultegra brifters didn't feel as refined as the Dura ace so have been holding out.


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## Dan Gerous

This is a FDJ team bike... count the cogs.


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## tlg

Dan Gerous said:


> This is a FDJ team bike... count the cogs.


Say it ain't so!


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## thumper8888

Dan Gerous said:


> This is a FDJ team bike... count the cogs.
> 
> View attachment 314240


Thank god it is photoshopped.
It was with this article. Note the day and month, and of course the next day is ... April 1.

Shimano Dura Ace 12 vitesses 9100 en test à la FDJ.fr
Par Guillaume ROBERT le lundi 31 mars 2014 - Le matos des pros


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## Dan Gerous

thumper8888 said:


> Thank god it is photoshopped.
> It was with this article. Note the day and month, and of course the next day is ... April 1.
> 
> Shimano Dura Ace 12 vitesses 9100 en test à la FDJ.fr
> Par Guillaume ROBERT le lundi 31 mars 2014 - Le matos des pros




Seriously though, Shimano has an event planned end of June, a few days before le Tour de France starts, the expectation is they will present the new Dura-Ace (mechanical and Di2) then. Expected: still 11 speeds and Di2 becoming semi-wireless (components still wired together but system communicates wirelessly with Garmins without the D-Fly add-on and with the announced Shimano iPhone/iPad app for customization and firmware updates) like the recently introduced Di2 XT mtb group.


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## MMsRepBike

Shimano Dura-Ace


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## TmB123

I wonder how "new" something new is?
Is it a couple of new features (wireless connectivity and things already discussed), or something _really_​ new that will make us go oooh and ahhh.


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## PoorInRichfield

MMsRepBike said:


> Shimano Dura-Ace


What I need is a new Ultegra web site since can't afford Dura-Ace, no matter how cool it is


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## Cinelli 82220

PoorInRichfield said:


> What I need is a new Ultegra web site since can't afford Dura-Ace, no matter how cool it is


It will all trickle down. 6800 is a terrific group by any standard. The next generation will be great too.


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## antihero77

Such a rip off. This is what pinarello did with the f8 launch


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## carbonLORD

Yes!


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## rcb78

Just read the full description on the S-Tec boards, no clutch as far as I can tell. It IS a Shadow design, but NOT a Shadow 'Plus'. Too bad, I know a bunch of gravel and CX guys that won't touch Shimano until this happens. They are shooting themselves in the foot on this one.


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## WheresWaldo

Of all the new parts shown, the only thing of interest to me was the powermeter. If this trickles down to Ultegra it will be a good thing. My mechanical is Dura-Ace, but with Di2 I went with cheaper Ultegra. So the more stuff they show at the top level the more stuff eventually filters down to the Ultegra level. When that happens it might be time to upgrade.

I am also wondering about the EW-RS911 and whether or not it uses the same attachment method as the current Junction. I could care less about the bike attachment point, just want to know if I need to modify my Di2 3D printed mount design. And if the EW-WU111 actually has a clip this time.


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## tlg

WheresWaldo said:


> Of all the new parts shown, the only thing of interest to me was the powermeter. If this trickles down to Ultegra it will be a good thing. My mechanical is Dura-Ace, but with Di2 I went with cheaper Ultegra. So the more stuff they show at the top level the more stuff eventually filters down to the Ultegra level. When that happens it might be time to upgrade.
> 
> I am also wondering about the EW-RS911 and whether or not it uses the same attachment method as the current Junction. I could care less about the bike attachment point, just want to know if I need to modify my Di2 3D printed mount design. And if the EW-WU111 actually has a clip this time.


One of the videos I watched, they mentioned the new junctions can mount inside the stem or in the bar end. The bar end junction is a bar end plug with a charge port. Looks pretty slick.

EW-RS910 A-junction (2 port) for integration into handlebar
EW-RS911 A-junction (3 port) with sleeker attachment to stem


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## cpark

tlg said:


> One of the videos I watched, they mentioned the new junctions can mount inside the stem or in the bar end. The bar end junction is a bar end plug with a charge port. Looks pretty slick.
> 
> EW-RS910 A-junction (2 port) for integration into handlebar
> EW-RS911 A-junction (3 port) with sleeker attachment to stem



Do you know if the new junction boxes will be compatible with the current Di2 system?


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## MMsRepBike

cpark said:


> Do you know if the new junction boxes will be compatible with the current Di2 system?


Yes.

However in order to use the new wireless updates and such you will have to buy the new battery. The new battery has the new brains inside of it.


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## MMsRepBike

MMsRepBike said:


> Yes.
> 
> However in order to use the new wireless updates and such you will have to buy the new battery. The new battery has the new brains inside of it.













So you need two new things. Both a new battery with built in bluetooth and also a new "wireless" unit. The EW-WU111 looks quite slick, just a little thing.

The battery is available now, well the internal BT-DN110 is available now. The new wireless units are not quite out yet but should be really soon.


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## dje31

Based purely on aesthetics, not feeling the "none more black" look...and the crank looks weird. Previous gen was a thing of beauty...bring on the discounted NOS!


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## SilverStar07

MMsRepBike said:


> So you need two new things. Both a new battery with built in bluetooth and also a new "wireless" unit. The EW-WU111 looks quite slick, just a little thing.
> 
> The battery is available now, well the internal BT-DN110 is available now. The new wireless units are not quite out yet but should be really soon.


That's a little disappointing. I was hoping with the new battery, one wouldn't need the wireless unit as well. Whats different between the new "wireless" unit and the old "D-Fly" unit that has been out.

SS-


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## MMsRepBike

SilverStar07 said:


> That's a little disappointing. I was hoping with the new battery, one wouldn't need the wireless unit as well. Whats different between the new "wireless" unit and the old "D-Fly" unit that has been out.
> 
> SS-


There's two new "wireless" units.

One is a replacement for the old d-fly unit. The difference being the old one used ant+ only and the new one also uses bluetooth low energy (BLE) which enables communication with the phones.

Why a new battery with BLE and a new wireless unit with BLE? No idea. Apparently you do need one though because they now have the hidden inline one if you don't want the d-fly:










The 101 is the d-fly replacement unit and the 111 is the one pictured above that goes inside inline somewhere.


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## Migen21

I got tired of my old D-Fly hanging out on my chainstay, so I moved it inside my top tube (internal cable routing). Connectivity is still fine, and it's a much cleaner look.

This new BT/Ant unit, the 111, is a much cleaner solution yet. I'm seriously considering grabbing the new internal battery and the 111 to upgrade both of my existing Ui2 setups, just to have access to the new app stuff.


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## SilverStar07

Ok that 111 wireless unit is better than the D-Fly, I should be able to hide that right next to the battery in the seat post. I still think it is funny that the new battery with BLE built in that Shimano made a big deal out of still needs a separate wireless unit to work. 

SS-


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## spdntrxi

SilverStar07 said:


> Ok that 111 wireless unit is better than the D-Fly, I should be able to hide that right next to the battery in the seat post. I still think it is funny that the new battery with BLE built in that Shimano made a big deal out of still needs a separate wireless unit to work.
> 
> SS-


I have current d-fly inline with the battery..in the seat post and all is good


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## Migen21

I'm still a little unclear about the function of the new BT wireless units vs the new battery. Which one is required to make use of the new mobile app? I'm assuming the battery?

I don't particularly care about pairing the with my phone via bluetooth for sensor data, as I use an ANT+ head unit, and my current D-Fly does that just fine. 

I'm assuming I don't really need the newer BT wireless unit at all? Just the new battery?


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## MMsRepBike

Migen21 said:


> I'm still a little unclear about the function of the new BT wireless units vs the new battery. Which one is required to make use of the new mobile app? I'm assuming the battery?
> 
> I don't particularly care about pairing the with my phone via bluetooth for sensor data, as I use an ANT+ head unit, and my current D-Fly does that just fine.
> 
> I'm assuming I don't really need the newer BT wireless unit at all? Just the new battery?


Both new units are required. You have to replace both the battery and the d-fly unit. If you don't have a d-fly unit now you have to at least get a 111 now as well as the new battery.

You need both. Says them. Nobody I know has tested it all out yet though.


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## Migen21

That's interesting. 

I talked to the inventory guy at my LBS. They have the new batteries, but he no idea when the wireless units will be available.

He said the dealer site has the EW-WU101 listed as 'out of stock' with no estimate on availability, and the EW-WU111 is not even listed as an available item.


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## Migen21

In a bit of irony, one of my older Di2 batteries isn't holding a charge as well as I'd like, so I stopped by the shop to pick up a new one.

They only have the new BT-DN110 di2 batteries in stock. Hrm.. same plug, same shape, mounts the same.. should work..

So I get it home and plug it in, and it powers the system. Everything works, including the old ANT+ Dfly (it came with about 25% charge), so I figure I should connect up the E-Tube software and make sure it has the latest firmware on it.

No joy. The "current" E-Tube project software for Windows doesn't recognize the new battery. 

I can't use the new IPAD ONLY software without the new WU110/WU111 wireless units (which aren't currently available), and the current E-Tube software doesn't work. This means no firmware version check for this battery until the new WU's are available. Oh, and apparently they aren't stocking the old batteries any more. I could probably find one somewhere, but honestly, Id rather they just start shipping the damned WU's that work with the batteries they are stocking. This is my one major gripe with Shimano. Odd release dates and availability, especially with newer stuff like this.

Fortunately, this isn't a huge problem. My old battery still works well enough, and the new battery seems to function just fine in terms of taking a charge and powering the system. 

Also, here is the latest E-Tube Compatibility Chart if anyone is interested. 

http://e-tubeproject.shimano.com/pdf/en/HM-CC.3.0.0-01-EN.pdf

And yes, it shows that the new battery is in fact compatible with my 9070 shifters and 6870 derailleurs. So hopefully no meltdowns.

EDIT: The E-Tube Project web page lists two versions of E-Tube software for windows. V 3.x shows up as "XT Di2 Only" (I don't own any XT Di2), and V 2.11.1 (which is what I was using) is for everything else.

Well, on a whim, I uninstalled 2.11.1 and installed the "XT Only" version, and sho-nuff, it recognizes the new battery and all of my components. It also had firmware updates ready for my old D-Fly, and the new battery. I'm *really* curious to see if my IPad will recognize the D-Fly after this firmware update. Edit: And to no ones surprise, the answer is 'nooooooooooooooooooo.......'


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## sund

Did you update the firmware on your battery to 4.03? I did the same as you with the 3.0 software and my battery didn't like the firmware.


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## MMsRepBike

sund said:


> Did you update the firmware on your battery to 4.03? I did the same as you with the 3.0 software and my battery didn't like the firmware.


I did. No problems at all. Updated the rear mech at the same time. 

I did the same as above. First thing I did was go into control panel and uninstall etube and all of it's info. After it was gone, I then downloaded the 3.0.1 version and installed it. It immediately recognized the new battery.

Oh, I had the computer disconnected from the internet, not sure if that matters, doubt it does.

I updated firmware on the new bluetooth battery and the rear mech no issues. Tried setting up synchro-shift but it currently is requiring you to have one of those MTB shifter things. So for now just a basic firmware update and everything is working good.


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## sund

Thanks for the info. I had to get a new battery and I'm hesitant to do an upgrade.


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## MMsRepBike

If you have the new battery and it is working fine, but you don't feel like updating firmware, don't. Don't worry about it. The new battery is useless outside of being a battery right now anyway. It has bluetooth but it only talks to a second small wireless unit that's not available yet. Once that thing comes out, the little inline guy, and you get that, that's when you'll want to be updating all of the firmware on everything. By then they'll have it all sorted anyway probably and be on 3.1 or something.


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