# Who wants to see me cut open my Ebay carbon fork?



## MercuryMan76 (Apr 17, 2009)

I bought a cheap carbon fork from one of the ebay sellers last month because I wanted a cheap fork for a build. It turns out that when I received the fork the internal diameter of the steerer tube wouldn't allow me to insert a compression plug. So what did I do? Took a good ol' Dremel and carved that baby out enough to allow the compression plug to slide in there. I know this was a terribly dumb idea but I just had to do it. 

I contacted the seller and let them know about the steerer tube and even opened a complaint on ebay when they didn't respond. As it turns out, after sending the seller pictures of the steerer tube which showed that a compression plug would not fit I was refunded my money and was not asked to return the fork. I've since bought an Easton EC90SLX so I'll have this basically useless and most likely unsafe fork that will just sit there. I figure with all of the debate going on about these ebay carbon frames/forks (I actually bought one of them last year which I've since sold) I could cut up the fork and show everyone what the internals look like. Anybody interested in actually seeing this?


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## Morris Buttermaker (Jan 4, 2010)

Will It Blend?


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## st3v3 (Jul 25, 2009)

Will it float?


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## FatTireFred (Jan 31, 2005)

I hope you filed the complaint before plugging in the dremel...


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## lalahsghost (Aug 27, 2007)

I'm pretty excited to see one of the fork legs opened!


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## King Arthur (Nov 13, 2009)

*open fork*

go for it


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## tihsepa (Nov 27, 2008)

Get a bullet proof vest first!


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## saf-t (Sep 24, 2008)

Wear safety glasses


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## tihsepa (Nov 27, 2008)

And on a serious note. 

Get a dust mask. Carbon filings cant be good for the lungs.


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## ukbloke (Sep 1, 2007)

saf-t said:


> Wear safety glasses


And a dust mask.


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## estone2 (Sep 25, 2005)

A from Il said:


> And on a serious note.
> 
> Get a dust mask. Carbon filings cant be good for the lungs.


+1.

Dust mask, goggles, gloves, hell I'd even say long sleeves and a shower afterwards. Carbon is terrible for you! And carbon splinters hurt like a @_#*$(@*


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## cydswipe (Mar 7, 2002)

Just leave it in the sun. Everyone knows carbon in the sun assplodes!!!!


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## MercuryMan76 (Apr 17, 2009)

It's settled then. I'll slice this baby open and post some pics up for those who are curious. I actually rode the fork 25 miles this past w/e but after watching this vid of good ol' George Hincapie's fork/steerer tube snapping in half I figured it's not a good idea to ride on a Dremel'd out steerer tube. Not that I put my bike through anywhere near the type of punishment these guys do, but nonetheless, I also just shaved the sh*t out of the steerer tube until I could fit the plug in so I'm sure the integrity of the steerer was compromised to some degree.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M9hqUJIwpRc

I'm kind of disappointed to do this because I made a little project out of the fork. I was using it to build up my 2006 Felt Team Carbon from which has a matte carbon finish. The fork came with a gloss clearcoat so I sanded it down and recoated it with a matte clearcoat. I was actually kind of proud of myself for how it turned out.

Here it is as I received it.









And after a few good wet sands.









And after a few coats of the matte clear coat.









Mounted to the bike...I know, I know...12k weave didn't match the 3k weave of the Felt but shoot, I just wanted a cheap fork.


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## bane (Aug 30, 2006)

yeah, the matte clear looks good

CHOP IT UP


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## stevecaz (Feb 25, 2005)

Are you kidding me?

You do realize that different thickness steerer tube walls happen, right? Just because your compression plug didn't fit, doesn't mean all compression plugs won't fit. This is not unusual at all. Sometimes forks may have such thick tube walls that you can actually use a 1" instead of 1-1/8". And then some plugs are just skinnier than others from brand to brand. 

Also, you could cut it down below the dremeled part and resell the fork to someone who needs a shorter steerer tube.


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## stevesbike (Jun 3, 2002)

did you try different compression plugs - some won't fit different forks. E.g., Orbea forks tend to have thicker steerer tubes (so smaller inside diameter). The FSA and Reynolds plug won't work in them - my guess is you could have found a different plug that would have worked fine without having to dremel it. By the way, Hincapie's fork failure was an alloy steerer tube.


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## lechat67 (Sep 28, 2007)

you should have filed down the plug instead.


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## filly (Feb 6, 2003)

lechat67 said:


> you should have filed down the plug instead.


can't believe it took this long for this little gem to pop out.


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## rudedog55 (Aug 10, 2009)

no need to ruin a perfectly good fork!!! Nice job on the Matte Clear, that looks awesome!!


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## Infini (Apr 21, 2003)

Cut it anyways !!!


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## tihsepa (Nov 27, 2008)

Infini said:


> Cut it anyways !!!


Yah, I dont care if its usable. 
I just want to see somebody hack up a fork.


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## MercuryMan76 (Apr 17, 2009)

I tried a KCNC and FSA plug and neither would fit even if I removed the internal screw and just tried to slide the plug without any expansion of the plugs. I figured at that point it's just pointless for me to go out and try a bunch of different plugs that would cost me $15-20 a piece when I only spent $65 on the fork. Plus the fact that I was refunded my money so I figured it would just be a cool thing to split the fork blades open and show everyone the internal construction of the fork since there's been so much debate about whether or not these ebay frames/forks are actually quality products. I mean, how often do we get to cut open a carbon fork just to see what the inside looks like? I'll post some pics up of the whole process next w/e.


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## stevecaz (Feb 25, 2005)

Hey, I'm all in for cutting open the fork. 

But I should have added to my previous post, if something happens like this to anyone, take the fork into a bike shop and have then try all the plugs they have to find one that fits. Sure you will pay more at the shop, but also get the right plug fast.


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## erol/frost (May 30, 2004)

So we cuttin` forks or what?


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## kreyszig666 (Jan 6, 2010)

hmm i have that fork. just got a different compression plug that did fit.


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## lemond2001 (Nov 22, 2001)

YOu probably need to use a problem solvers plug..I am sure it would fit just fine...


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## desmond88 (Feb 19, 2010)

Infini said:


> Cut it anyways !!!


yes yes
please do cut it
i wanna see it!!


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## redmr2_man (Dec 22, 2009)

make with the cutting!


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## velomateo (Mar 7, 2009)

I think it would be more informative if you try and break it. Put it in a vice and start clamping. You can always cut it up after you get it to fail....and again - wear eye protection.


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## MercuryMan76 (Apr 17, 2009)

So I cut this baby open last weekend. Pretty fun little experiment.

The Dremel melted right through the fork blade like it was nothing.









Started by cutting this little cross section out.

















This was the cross section that was cut out. Notice how thin the walls get down near the end (from L-R)









The area near the crown was really thick and chunky.









Next I decided to cut the steerer tube in half to see what was going on in there. The Dremel had a hard time with this one and I broke about 3 of the little circular blades trying to cut it open.









Once it was opened up there was a huge chunk of carbon fiber near the crown.

























So there you have it folks. That's what the inside of the ebay carbon fork was looking like.









I think it was probably safe to ride and obviously it's not filled with newspaper like some speculated. For $65 it wouldn't be a bad option, but obviously it's not going to be a top of the line fork.


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## BikeFixer (May 19, 2009)

Now put it in the microwave :thumbsup:


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## Morris Buttermaker (Jan 4, 2010)

I think you should take a wee on it


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## MercuryMan76 (Apr 17, 2009)

I still have the fork so if you guys have any suggestions for torture tests let me know. One of the fork blades is still intact so I'm sure there's something that can be done to it.


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## brblue (Jan 28, 2003)

perfectly good fork.. omg 
well just wanted to say that, as I recall, may not be correct, george broke his aluminum steerer fork by separating the steerer from the crown..
I think you only thinned out the steerer walls near the top of the steerer.. it might have still been ridable.. oh well.
what did the thing weigh?
65$ is a good price.. (although, I don't like the large weave pattern  i'd have painted it)


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## MercuryMan76 (Apr 17, 2009)

brblue said:


> perfectly good fork.. omg
> well just wanted to say that, as I recall, may not be correct, george broke his aluminum steerer fork by separating the steerer from the crown..
> I think you only thinned out the steerer walls near the top of the steerer.. it might have still been ridable.. oh well.
> what did the thing weigh?
> 65$ is a good price.. (although, I don't like the large weave pattern  i'd have painted it)


You're absolutely right. When I was cutting it open I was thinking it was totally a rideable fork. I even took a steelhead hammer and whacked on the steerer tube about 3 or 4 times and it barely even left a mark. 

But considering there has been so much debate about these ebay frames/forks lately I thought it would be cool to open one up and give folks a sense of what's going on inside.


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## canthidefromme (Jun 29, 2006)

oven!


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## California L33 (Jan 20, 2006)

MercuryMan76 said:


> You're absolutely right. When I was cutting it open I was thinking it was totally a rideable fork. I even took a steelhead hammer and whacked on the steerer tube about 3 or 4 times and it barely even left a mark.
> 
> But considering there has been so much debate about these ebay frames/forks lately I thought it would be cool to open one up and give folks a sense of what's going on inside.


I dare you to send pictures to Calfee and ask them what it will cost to repair  Tell them it was a 'just riding along' event.


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## vanterminator (Dec 28, 2009)

MercuryMan76 said:


> I still have the fork so if you guys have any suggestions for torture tests let me know. One of the fork blades is still intact so I'm sure there's something that can be done to it.


man, take a few weights (dumbbells of 40lbs or something) and throw them on the still intact side of the fork. Someone can easily calculate the force these babies can withstand till they split....


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## sonic_W (Sep 2, 2008)

please tell me you wore a respirator and used gloves...those carbon particles are a real health hazard


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## root (Sep 13, 2007)

sonic_W said:


> please tell me you wore a respirator and used gloves...those carbon particles are a real health hazard


I was thinking the same thing. Carbon fiber particles are extremely carcinogenic and very hard to get out of your lungs once they get in there.


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## lalahsghost (Aug 27, 2007)

Thanks for taking the time to do this!


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## Kuma601 (Jan 22, 2004)

Interesting dissection.

Maybe it was one of the other cut threads about grinding approved masks/respirators. As a chance limited exposure probably no worries, this was an unsafe practice. If you smelled the CF, you inhaled the resins and CF particulates. Be safe when grinding/cutting materials that will put microfine particles into the air. N95 masks while not perfect are much better than that bandana. Cheap to obtain at ~$3.50 for a 3 pack.

My suggestion to any others: in the absence of an appropriate mask, cut it wet with running water manually. As in handsaw, not rotary. The cut produces coarser debris opposed to a fine cut-off disc that will put out sub 1 micron particulates. The fibers from CF, resins, steel are not easily passed by the lungs so accumulated exposure is not good. We suck in enough crappy air while riding and just breathing normally.


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## erol/frost (May 30, 2004)

Thanks for cutting them up. Interesting results.


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## Trek2.3 (Sep 13, 2009)

Come on, post the pics.


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## ausdb (May 20, 2009)

Why don't you keep going and join the cut sections up so you can see inside the crown section? It is the most highly stressed section and will reveal a lot more about the fork than what you have done so far.


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## cpcritter (Sep 24, 2008)

Relist it.


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## rossj (Apr 15, 2009)

How did you like the fork while you were using it? Did it feel like cheap crap or was it not so bad?


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## Pieter (Oct 17, 2005)

Thanks for that interesting, er, exposition.

Looks like an XdS Carbon-Tech. Companies like that one do 30-40k forks per month, so the possibility of an inexpensive (not cheap) but good fork from Ebay gets likely.

The fork looks perfectly well made, nice progressive walls and nice finish everywhere. 
Confidence-inspiring - YOPMV

How about a straight vertical cut through the crown and steerer (hacksaw, not dremel) ?


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## 67mac (Feb 23, 2010)

*Bring on the Easton*



sonic_W said:


> please tell me you wore a respirator and used gloves...those carbon particles are a real health hazard


Uh yea. It's called a Red Bandana...

Now that youve practiced on your e-bay fork, bring on the Easton! Lets compare...


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## Ventruck (Mar 9, 2009)

Bring it to a gas station with a cellular phone and see if a massive asplosion occurs. Just make sure everyone's gone because it may make a big hole in the Earth.


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## MercuryMan76 (Apr 17, 2009)

Pieter said:


> Thanks for that interesting, er, exposition.
> 
> Looks like an XdS Carbon-Tech. Companies like that one do 30-40k forks per month, so the possibility of an inexpensive (not cheap) but good fork from Ebay gets likely.
> 
> ...


That's a good idea. I'll make that cut and post some pics up.


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## flinker (Mar 4, 2010)

Well, I kinda would like some development on this thread, as I am using this fork for 6 months already and I never had any problem.

When it arrived, I just could not resist to test it out, so I had it suspended on the extreme ends like a bridge (end of uncut steerer and dropouts - padded to prevent damage of course) and I stood up in the middle. Fork took it without breaking sweat, and only when I began to rock up and down it was possible to feel and see some flexing. But no creaking or cracking whatsoever. I weight around 82kg.

I was happy with the result, put it on (I used headset and spacer from the the fork seller) and everything fitted OK on first try.

So for me, no problems there. I guess it might have been lucky with these piece, but until someones gets at least ten of them and do some decent testing, it will always remain a point of dispute.

If anyone is willing to come up with some testing plan, it would be great contribution to cycling public.


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## Pieter (Oct 17, 2005)

You have stupidly killed your fork by standing on it. Now, the stage has been set for microscopic failure of the fibres and the process will continue at an exponential rate and then wait until the bike hits 40mph and/or or some other dangerous traffic situation, and the fork will then fail catastrophically.

Nahh seriously... stop worrying. Your chances of fork breaking is 0.001% of that of getting wiped out by some other vehicle or road hazard. You got an idea of its strength and stiffness by standing on it, I hope it was convincing enough.


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## suprcivic (Apr 10, 2009)

BUMP!

Well?


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## untoothedyouth (Jul 9, 2009)

Very cool! Thanks.


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## flinker (Mar 4, 2010)

Pieter said:


> You have stupidly killed your fork by standing on it. Now, the stage has been set for microscopic failure of the fibres and the process will continue at an exponential rate and then wait until the bike hits 40mph and/or or some other dangerous traffic situation, and the fork will then fail catastrophically.
> 
> Nahh seriously... stop worrying. Your chances of fork breaking is 0.001% of that of getting wiped out by some other vehicle or road hazard. You got an idea of its strength and stiffness by standing on it, I hope it was convincing enough.



Well, I agree with your second paragraph. I guess that first one was meant as a joke, but for the benefit of others who are doubting their decision  lets get back to the first one. 

I think you are wrong, the fork must be designed to take significant loads, sharp hits etc, so merely standing on it will not make it to have microscopic failures in the fibers and crap like that. I reckon that you must have heard of elasticity, and that there is certain deflection that every material can take before permanent damage occurs. (a very crude explanation, Google for more). I doubt that you can reach that doing what I did. 

This "test" was only to get the "feel" of the thing, isolating fork from other components. Before that I carefully checked it visually and taped with coin all over the surface to find if there are any hollow places. A slightest doubt on my part would mean fork will be ditched. And I could not see any difference in behavior compared to my other carbon fork, (KTM oem) except that eBay one looks different and is slightly lighter. 

Now I am looking for MTB carbon fork from Ebay, as I do not have doubts anymore and I do not want to spend fortune on my beach bike.


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