# Okay, which would YOU rather have? A Moots or a Colnago?



## Jed Peters

Which would you take? They're both pretty sweet.

Custom Moots, hand selected tubing, custom stem, Moots post, Ouzo Pro fork.

Custom Colnago Dream Plus HP, Star fork/Headset, Colnago Stem/Post.

Both are same price. Bike will be a race bike, raced 30 times/year, 15/hrs per week training.

Colnago is a 6-9 month wait. Moots is a 4 week wait.

Time is not really of the essence due to the fact that there are bikes that can be ridden in the meantime without the outlay of money.

Which bike would you choose, and why? The Colnago is pretty sweet seeing as how not everyone can get a custom one built for them, plus the history, name, etc. 

The Moots is cool because it's just absolutely BEAUTIFUL Ti.

Discuss.


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## OperaLover

Jed Peters said:


> Which would you take? They're both pretty sweet.
> 
> Custom Moots, hand selected tubing, custom stem, Moots post, Ouzo Pro fork.
> 
> Custom Colnago Dream Plus HP, Star fork/Headset, Colnago Stem/Post.
> 
> Both are same price. Bike will be a race bike, raced 30 times/year, 15/hrs per week training.
> 
> Colnago is a 6-9 month wait. Moots is a 4 week wait.
> 
> Time is not really of the essence due to the fact that there are bikes that can be ridden in the meantime without the outlay of money.
> 
> Which bike would you choose, and why? The Colnago is pretty sweet seeing as how not everyone can get a custom one built for them, plus the history, name, etc.
> 
> The Moots is cool
> Discuss.


You said it yourself the Moots is cool because it's just absolutely BEAUTIFUL Ti. The real difference is the frame materials! 

I would get the Moots, unless you want the Colnago.


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## bsdc

Wow! Which is better? A Ferrari or a Lambrogini? 

My vote would be for the Moots. A few years from now your Colnago will have chipped paint and be out of style. They will have come up with a new paint scheme and a new LMX split downtube for 2006. The Moots will be almost timeless. It will look the same for years to come. Little scratches will be buffed out. You'll probably get another bike years from now, but you'll keep the Moots as a trusty, not rusty, rain bike. You'll wonder why you ever replaced it.


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## il sogno

I have a Colnago Dream from Y2K. I have to say the one thing that Colnagos have over every other bike is their exceptional front end design. They have designed the front end so that it propels you forward over bumps instead of getting hung up on them. It sort of smooths out the bumps. This along with the sure-footed handling and comfortable (for aluminum) ride make it a great choice, IMHO.


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## The Walrus

*No contest--The Moots*

_"...the history, the name, etc."_...plus those all-important circus clown paint jobs....It seems like the image and style are half the reason people find 'nagos appealing--I agree with bsdc that it'll seem passe within a few years, and then you'll find yourself "needing" something new. The Moots might not be as swank, but it'll be a keeper.


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## Jed Peters

il sogno said:


> I have a Colnago Dream from Y2K. I have to say the one thing that Colnagos have over every other bike is their exceptional front end design. They have designed the front end so that it propels you forward over bumps instead of getting hung up on them. It sort of smooths out the bumps. This along with the sure-footed handling and comfortable (for aluminum) ride make it a great choice, IMHO.


She's currently got a CT-1.


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## benInMA

I see Moots as a Mtn. bike company making a road bike and Colnago as a Road bike company making road bikes.

The heritage has got to be worth something.

However I hate the Colnago paint jobs and Moots are made in the US aren't they?

It would be tough although neither would be in my top choices.

Ben


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## divve

I'd go with Moots. I think it will survive racing better and if it gets damaged it will be easier/quicker to repair with the factory being just a FedEx call away.


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## boneman

*Moots would be my choice*

Custom Dream would be nice but in my view, not the strongest nor most competitive offering in their line-up compared to the CT-2 or various C-* models.

You can find a builder such as Strong or others who could build a custom to Dream Plus specs. such as front end and back end, with custom seat tube and TT, etc. sizing for less money and a shorter wait.

I may own a C-40 and a Tecnos but I'm not that biased towards Colnago.

Moots custom Ti. Why not? Made in the US, as I recall you're in N. California, so it's easier. Price wise, I can't say but easier to communciate your needs and talk to the builder. I've never ridden one but read the reviews and seen the pictures. Looks like they do quality work and they've had staying power in a tough business.

Having had a few custom steels made up, the only tips I'll pass on that are often forgotten is to not forget to discuss the BB height and the head tube length. The latter if you want to build it with either a sloping TT, not necessarily compact style, or a taller than normal part of the head tube above the TT. Some people can ride with not spacers and a 72 or 80 degree stem but not all.


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## terry b

I'd take the Dream (speaking from experience here because I already have one.) However, if I really wanted a Ti bike, Moots would be the one. But frankly, I don't think shiny or sandblasted or polished gray metal is particularly swank. I have a Sampson that was unpainted Ti and I got it powder-coated because it was really boring. Colnago paint jobs may be an acquired taste, and there are some that are ugly. But I really like the two I have (AD20 and GEO) and there are a handful of the others that are absolutely beautiful. Moots to me is utilitarian, like a good crescent wrench. Colnago is art.

Ride-wise though - only you can pick. I like the rides of both materials, but then I've never swung a leg over a bike in that price range that I didn't love. Both will probably make you happy. If you like the looks, the choice is obvious.


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## boneman

*Ad20*

Never seen one on the road. Any chance of you posting a picture?


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## Mapei

BenInMA has a point about the Moots being a road bike built by a Mountain Bike company while the Colnago is a road bike built by a road bike company. If you're hankering for custom, why not go with a dedicated road bike builder instead. Like Serotta. Tell the maker you want it to be exactly like a Colnago in feel, except with more sedate cosmetics to less offend those put off by bright splashes of paint.


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## FORZA!

*get the Colnago*

I love my VaMoots. One of my racing buddies borrowed it on a ride we went on this past weekend - long, rough roads, big climbs, technical descents, etc. His usual rig is a Madone but by the end of our ride he was liking the Moots more and more. It's plenty responsive but still comfortable for all day. And its beauty will never go out of style.

Of course, the Colnago is just fine. You may want to just get that instead since it takes so long to learn the secret Steamboat handshake.


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## Jed Peters

Mapei Roida said:


> BenInMA has a point about the Moots being a road bike built by a Mountain Bike company while the Colnago is a road bike built by a road bike company. If you're hankering for custom, why not go with a dedicated road bike builder instead. Like Serotta. Tell the maker you want it to be exactly like a Colnago in feel, except with more sedate cosmetics to less offend those put off by bright splashes of paint.


My wife is lucky enough to be offered a colnago at a very good price, and the ability to be able to get a custom one! 

Sizing won't be an issue as it the fit/dimensions will be transferred from her (italian) doctor directly to the Colnago factory in Italy (so no language barrier there!).

Other poster: The Dream HP is what was recomended for her by the same Dr. who has a wealth of information dealing with Colnagos.

The Moots is just a pretty awesome bike, and I totally agree with just about EVERYTHING that has been said here. The good points were brought up about utilitarian, MTB company, etc.

Then again, there IS the whole "lifetime" deal with the Moots....keep it coming!


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## terry b

*here you go*

In my opinion, Colnago's most demure paint job -


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## boneman

*Thanks for that*



terry b said:


> In my opinion, Colnago's most demure paint job -


I've got an AD10 on my C-40, no subtle at all. Now if only you could get the fork sprayed to match, that would be something!


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## divve

Carbon fork painting is about $75 bucks extra in Europe.


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## Coolhand

*Colnago*

Hmmm. Having gone the custom Ti route before, I think I would go Colnago just to try something different. Live a little. 

To answer a different point raised, no matter what you get eventually you get bored and want to try new stuff. At least I do. I am selling a perfectly good Seven with Record 10 just so I can try something new and different. Colnago has plenty of new and different every year. And they look quite spiffy. So they get the nod.

BTW, I listed it in the RBR classifieds, of course:

http://marketplace.consumerreview.c...sults_format=long&db_id=41612&query=retrieval

That's my LBS's account if anyone cares.


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## PaulCL

*One word: Warranty*

I used to own a Colnago until the Ti frame cracked. No warranty - it's five years old. I'm screwed. Get it repaired?? Yeah right....months and months with unknown cost. Colnago warranty is two years with another two added on by Trialtir. I don't know about a custom job but no add on warranty by Trialtir. But a beautiful bike giving me a sweet ride. I miss that frame.....

Moots. American made in Steamboat Springs, CO. If I remember: lifetime warranty. If you damaged the bike, it could be shipped there overnight and you'd be able to talk to them by phone - in English. Great reputation. Beautiful frames but without the Italian panache

No question: MOOTS !!!


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## j-son

*Colnago*

I'd opt for the Colnago for a few vain reasons. 

#1.) I have a thing for European bikes. Not rational or logical. More like lustful.

#2.) A bike should be pretty. Bare ti, although I can appreciate it, doesn't appeal to my esthetic sense. Colnagos sure a puuurrrrty. I like orange so Rabobank for me. Although the Colnago that lonefrontranger person rides is awfully cool.

#3.) Not to knock or denigrate Kent E. and his crew ... but we're talking about Ernesto here. The land of Ferrari, love and olive oil. There's something slippery, and slick and sexy about a Colnago. The Moots comes from Colorado ... I think of Subarus, trustafarians, hairy armpits and dreads. Wait ... I guess hairy armpits are a wash.

#4.) I prefer aluminum bikes. Blaspheme ... I know. Ti bikes just don't do it for me. I just prefer a stiff, light fast Al frame. If I were to go ti, I'd just go with steel.

#5.) Lifetime bike? Is there such a thing. I think of frames in terms of fractions of a decade. If you had a frame that would last a hundred years ... would you want it for even ten?

#6.) It's for your wife, right? Why are you asking us goofballs. Get the young lady a nice bottle of chianti and discuss over a romantic dinner. Debating the relative merits of frames makes great pillow talk. 


Over and out.

jason


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## Henry Chinaski

I'd take a stock Colnago over a stock Moots (I know the Colnago would work for me but I'm not so sure about Moots--seems a wee tad steep and quick for my tastes), but I'd take a custom Moots over a custom Colnago any day (custom Colnago sounds like a huge pain in the butt, and you can't beat Moots for the quality).


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## lampshade

*Hampsten!*

Hampsten Cycles- I am pretty sure their Ti is made by Moots. Andy runs tours in Tuscany and has won the Giro. Killer American Ti with Italian flair. Best of both worlds!

Bikes- http://www.hampsten.com/index.html
Tours- http://www.cinghiale.com/main.shtml


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## Jed Peters

lampshade said:


> Hampsten Cycles- I am pretty sure their Ti is made by Moots. Andy runs tours in Tuscany and has won the Giro. Killer American Ti with Italian flair. Best of both worlds!


I know, met andy when I was over there...hung out with some of his crew. All good people. Fun riding down from Castagneto Carducci with them, almost dark, 40+mph on windy roads. LOL.

(If we go moots, she'd be getting set up straight from moots....)


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## campyhag

Moots. Unique. Compact sl. Big tubes.


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## MShaw

benInMA said:


> It would be tough although neither would be in my top choices.
> 
> Ben


I'm having a tough one with this too. I'd really rather have an IF, or Spectrum, or... Ti isn't on my list of "gotta haves." I'd rather have the 3-5 AL frames that what 1Ti frame costs... 

If I had to choose one of the two choices, I'd probably go Moots.

Mike


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## Kram

*Neither.*

This what I'd have. A Look KG 486. Absolutely gorgeous. Does everything. Now, since that wasn't one of your choices, I'd go with the Moots. Colnago's are over-rated IMHO. I'm nota fan of Ti either, but the Moots is sweet. Lifetime warranty is a big plus, too. I have heard too many wrenches at my lbs b*tch about Colnagos and their sh*tty quality control.


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## mugg

*Moots all the way*

Come on, Jed get a Moots already. Of course I'm being biased here but still. You can't go wrong with Moots. Lovingly handcrafted in Steamboat Springs and yes, it will last a lifetime.

You won’t regret it. 

<CENTER><img src="http://www.wam.umd.edu/~asantos/ride/DSCN0062_1.jpg"BORDER=2></CENTER><P><b>Vamoots!</b>


<CENTER><img src="http://www.wam.umd.edu/~asantos/ride/DSCN0075%20copy.jpg" "BORDER=2></CENTER><P><b>Can’t you tell I’m biased towards Moots</b>


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## Dinosaur

*I wish I had your problem..*

Custom ti or custom al. I'm familiar with the Colnago geometry, which in my opinion is what these bikes are about, not paint.

I've seen a few Colnagos on my rides in Norcal, but never have I seen a Moots. I might dare to be different.

When I hit the grand age of 64 (in almost 2 years) my little idea is to reward myself with a new bike. I have a al bike and a steel one, my next choice is ti.

Tough call -but in my little world of self absorbed deaming- I'd go with my gut feeling. Certainly one of these bikes speaks to you. 

4 months Italian time corresponds to 6 months plus American time. And if you are working through tritir tack on another couple of weeks Just food for thought.

Just ride it and be dammed...


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## Francis Cebedo

get the colnago.

It's for racing right? Then get the aggressive race bike. Aluminum frame with carbon hp stays right? That should work out fine. The front triangle will be more rigid and stable for aggressive descending and turning. The carbon HP stays are great for absorbing shock while still maintaining lateral stability.

In 5 years, you're not going to have this fame. It will be used and abused and the paint will be all chipped off. But since you need a special purpose bike for right now, this is ok.

Now if you wanted a frame that was for all around, perhaps last you a lifetime or at least many years, then the moots seems like the natural choice.

Whatever you do, get 10 speed dura ace! I've had a chance tor ride the bike below and the new dura ace is a revelation.

francois


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## Spoke Wrench

*Look at it this way, Jed.*

Whichever one you choose, you have a 50% chance of being wrong. FIFTY PERCENT! 





Just wanted to add a bit of pressure onto what has to be an wonderfully enjoyable decision.


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## LactateIntolerant

*Sweet!*

Whadda ya got there? A Vamoots, a YBB and a spare for each?


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## wooglin-at-home

francois said:


> get the colnago.
> 
> It's for racing right? Then get the aggressive race bike. Aluminum frame with carbon hp stays right? That should work out fine. The front triangle will be more rigid and stable for aggressive descending and turning. The carbon HP stays are great for absorbing shock while still maintaining lateral stability.
> 
> In 5 years, you're not going to have this fame. It will be used and abused and the paint will be all chipped off.


Word up. I'm sitting here asking myself why either of these two frames are being considered for this application. Get a Cannondale or something, and don't worry about it.


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## Gator

*I think you're crazy either way...*

to drop that kind of jack on a bike you or your wife is going to race. The bike is going to get dropped, dinged, scratched, scraped, run over--it'll get eaten alive in a season or two. If you're sponsored, fine, but $5-6K on bike you're going destroy seems kind of silly to me. 

I'd probably just buy a "disposable" frame and hang some good stuff off it. I have a Schwinn Fastback Platinum tube frame--which are essentially free at this point--and it's a solid, strong, light bike that I won't spend a week weeping over if it goes down in a pile-up. But hey, that's just me.

If I had to pick zoot road frame for training and the weekend groups rides, though, I like the Moots. Sure, the guy has no real road pedigree and they don't scream "Look at me!", but have you ever SEEN a Moots? Holy crap, they are spectacular. The welds, oh baby, the welds *drool* I have a Dean ti, and while it's awesome, Moots are just the shizzle. In the middle of nowhere, with zero advertising (until recently) this guy built frames well enough to make his company a legend. Must be a reason...


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## Jed Peters

Gator said:


> to drop that kind of jack on a bike you or your wife is going to race. The bike is going to get dropped, dinged, scratched, scraped, run over--it'll get eaten alive in a season or two. If you're sponsored, fine, but $5-6K on bike you're going destroy seems kind of silly to me.


The bikes can be purchased at CONSIDERABLY less than you think they would cost.


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## Gator

*Oh.*

Ah-ha. Well, that's different. Can I get one, too?


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## zooog

Get the Moots.....


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## FlaRider

Hey Jed,

Whatever happened to the Della Santa your wife was getting? Just curious...

BTW, I'd definitely choose the Moots. I like so them so much I'm ordering one this weekend ;-)


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## Jed Peters

FlaRider said:


> Hey Jed,
> 
> Whatever happened to the Della Santa your wife was getting? Just curious...
> 
> BTW, I'd definitely choose the Moots. I like so them so much I'm ordering one this weekend ;-)


Roland couldn't manipulate the lugs enough, unfortunately.


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## rodiegonebad

*Jed, Get her a Serotta*

Call up Lori at Serotta. You will not be disappointed.

~brett


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## JohnnyCat

*Moots with a Colnago paint job!*

The Moots has better materials and craftsmanship. Since it is custom you could always specify it to be built with Colnago geometry and/or any geometry that you know and trust. If not going custom, and you swear by the standard Colnago geometry than go Colnago.


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## CDanRun

I was faced with the same dilemma. A Moots or a Colnago. I rode the Moots and was impressed. But then I rode a Colnago Dream and just loved the handling. I was smiling the whole time. I chose the Colnago. But a CT2 HP. I wonder when it's going to arrive...?


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