# Modify Campy Shifter from 10 to 11 speeds



## traverpen (Feb 4, 2013)

I have found some confusing and mixed info on this topic so I will ask the question directly.

Some background info is that I just recently started my campy experience with some used 10 speed Record ultrashift shifters. They came on a used cross bike I picked up. I disassembled, cleaned and re-lubed the right shifter because it had some sand in it. I installed them on my 10 speed shimano bike with a Jtek #3 shiftmate. I really like the action of the shifters. 

Can I in fact change the indexing disc and make it an 11 speed shifter if I feel the need for 11 speeds or would like to use the alternative cable routing instead of the shiftmate on a 10 speed shimano drivetrain?


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## bikerjulio (Jan 19, 2010)

There's no such thing as "10 speed Record Ultrashift". The Ultrashift name was introduced in 2009 with the advent of the completely redesigned shifters. Record Ultrashift were and are 11-speed.

The old and new shifters are different in every way with no parts commonality. 

A picture or 2 would help identify what you have, but the short and practical answer is that you can't convert a 10-speed Record shifter to 11-speed.


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## jpz (Jan 19, 2007)

Actually you can upgrade 10 to 11 speed, but probably not by changing the index disc. Campy is getting away from selling the small parts. You now buy the 'body' (minus brake lever, clamp & hood),.In shops probably around the $120 range (Super Record higher).
Ebay has them cheaper & it is not a hard upgrade. I've done it.


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## Drew Eckhardt (Nov 11, 2009)

jpz said:


> Actually you can upgrade 10 to 11 speed, but probably not by changing the index disc.


Not from 10 speed Record to 11. Only 2009+ 10 speed Centaur/Veloce UltraShift/PowerShift.



> Campy is getting away from selling the small parts. You now buy the 'body' (minus brake lever, clamp & hood),.In shops probably around the $120 range (Super Record higher).
> Ebay has them cheaper & it is not a hard upgrade. I've done it.


10 speed Record levers and 11 speed levers are completely different - different internals, different shape, different brake blades, different hoods.

10 speed Record levers are the second shape with hoods domed where brake cables went:









View attachment 304272


while 11 speed levers are newer shapes with hoods bent where brake cables went:









View attachment 304273


"Ultra" 10 speed Record levers have a coated index cam, not the "UltraShift" mechanism replacing the G-springs with coil springs and ball bearings engaging index detents.


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## jpz (Jan 19, 2007)

You may need to get a different 'level' body than you previously have, but Campy has several for sale, It CAN be done, I HAVE done it.


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## bikerjulio (Jan 19, 2010)

Obviously some confusion here, but Drew and I have it correctly. There is zero parts commonality between a pre-2009 (10-spd), and a 2009 or later (11-spd), Record shifter.

Pre-2009









2009 to date


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## traverpen (Feb 4, 2013)

The shifters I have are the same or very close to the ones identified as pre 2009 record. They have the "ultra" logo. So I gather the answer is no?


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## Drew Eckhardt (Nov 11, 2009)

traverpen said:


> The shifters I have are the same or very close to the ones identified as pre 2009 record. They have the "ultra" logo. So I gather the answer is no?


The answer is no.


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## PlatyPius (Feb 1, 2009)

And honestly, the ergonomics on the newer shifters are so much better, why would you want to convert the old ones?


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## cxwrench (Nov 9, 2004)

jpz said:


> You may need to get a different 'level' body than you previously have, but Campy has several for sale, It CAN be done, I HAVE done it.


No, you have not 'converted' a 10 speed lever to 11 speed. You replaced the lever. You could replace parts in the older levers and go from 9 to 10. Not possible in the same fashion w/ the new levers.


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## traverpen (Feb 4, 2013)

For one I'm a cheapskate. Also if the shifters go back on my cross bike, I'm not sure id want to run the shiftmate because it would add one more moving part the disassemble and clean. 11 speed campy shifters are supposed work 10 speed shimano drivetrain a with the alternative routing. Not really wanting to go 11 speed soon since I have 3 10 speed bikes. When I say 10 speed I mean monkeyed 10 speed for the most part. Two bikes have 9 speed RD's and one has a 9 speed FD. None have matching groups now. I find that I like to tinker and try new things. I did find that the wider cage on 9 speed FD's can be problematic with shimano's 10 speed front shifters, but it still works.


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## bikerjulio (Jan 19, 2010)

Here's the state of all knowledge on shifters, RD's, sprockets and compatibility

Art's Cyclery Blog » Science Behind the Magic | Drivetrain Compatibility

So, a Campy 11 shifter pulls 2.6mm

Shimano std RD has a 1.7 ratio normally or 1.6 with the alternative routing

so 2.6 x 1.7 = 4.42 mm
and 2.6 x 1.6 = 4.16 mm

Shimano 10-spd sprocket spacing is 3.95 mm, so if the alternate routing is used, and the RD is perfectly aligned at the centre of the cassette, then it will be off by 4 x (4.16-3.95) = 0.84 of a mm overtravel at the ends of the cassette.

So, probably workable but not perfect.


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## DrSmile (Jul 22, 2006)

PlatyPius said:


> And honestly, the ergonomics on the newer shifters are so much better, why would you want to convert the old ones?


I think this is subjective. Smaller hands would probably do better with the old levers, and I far prefer the stippled texture of the old lever covers when they're wet. In reality the "ergonomic" improvements are mostly Campy hype, and I ride both without any real noticeable differences in terms of comfort.


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## PlatyPius (Feb 1, 2009)

DrSmile said:


> I think this is subjective. Smaller hands would probably do better with the old levers, and I far prefer the stippled texture of the old lever covers when they're wet. In reality the "ergonomic" improvements are mostly Campy hype, and I ride both without any real noticeable differences in terms of comfort.



I have large hands, but short fingers. I always felt like I was a millimeter from sliding off of the hoods of the Record 10 levers I had. Not so with the new ones. The brake actuation is much better on the 11 speed levers too, at least for someone with short fingers.


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## zero85ZEN (Oct 11, 2002)

This can be done. There is a guy in Europe (Italy I believe) that manufactures the indexed prawl for the 10 speed mechanism that gives it 10 clicks. If you do some Google searching you can find his YouTube video.
I have considered doing this because I prefer the old lever design. I emailed him and he told me the cost of the part is 100 Euros. I may bite the bullet and buy a few at some point. Obviously you need to dissasemble and rebuild the mech to do this mod.


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## jpz (Jan 19, 2007)

I did mix up the lever part, sorry. But I refer to it as a conversion, as the price of the body is similar to the price of 'rebuilding' a lever. I've rebuilt levers since 9 speeds were out (for some reason my 8's lasted forever), I always replaced the indexed cog, g springs & the coil spring. I now have (cheaply,an 11 speed record lever - yes, I do not have the nice new 'Record 11' on the brake lever, But for very short money, I have an 11 speed lever.


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## zero85ZEN (Oct 11, 2002)

jpz said:


> I did mix up the lever part, sorry. But I refer to it as a conversion, as the price of the body is similar to the price of 'rebuilding' a lever. I've rebuilt levers since 9 speeds were out (for some reason my 8's lasted forever), I always replaced the indexed cog, g springs & the coil spring. I now have (cheaply,an 11 speed record lever - yes, I do not have the nice new 'Record 11' on the brake lever, But for very short money, I have an 11 speed lever.


Wait, did you upgrade an older V2 body to 11 speed? Or did you upgrade a V3 10 speed body to 11 speed? My research led me to believe that the indexed cog in the 11 speed bodies would not work in the older version 2 ergo bodies (pre 2009 Record, Chorus, etc).


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## jpz (Jan 19, 2007)

I bought the whole body, used my brake lever, clamp & hood. The body - on ebay- is in the $100 dollar range, Instead of buying a new set of 11 speed record levers for ~$400. Campy is basically getting out of 'small part' & sells complete bodies for rebuilding (why the price is relatively cheap. . .)


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## zero85ZEN (Oct 11, 2002)

jpz said:


> I bought the whole body, used my brake lever, clamp & hood. The body - on ebay- is in the $100 dollar range, Instead of buying a new set of 11 speed record levers for ~$400. Campy is basically getting out of 'small part' & sells complete bodies for rebuilding (why the price is relatively cheap. . .)


But you're talking about the new body design, correct? Not upgrading the older V2 10 speed levers (2000-2009) with a Campagnolo authentic 11 speed indexing cog. I've been told this upgrade path is not possible with stock parts and that the only solution is a guy that sells 11 speed indexed cogs for the older lever design.


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## jpz (Jan 19, 2007)

This is what you are buying: Campagnolo Super Record Right Ultra Shift Lever Body Assembly | eBay
from ebay or your LBS, as long as your brake lever fits, your all set.


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## Kerry Irons (Feb 25, 2002)

zero85ZEN said:


> There is a guy in Europe (Italy I believe) that manufactures the indexed prawl for the 10 speed mechanism that gives it 10 clicks.


Prawl?


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## flatlander_48 (Nov 16, 2005)

Yes, big shimp; pawns...


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## bikerjulio (Jan 19, 2010)

jpz said:


> This is what you are buying: Campagnolo Super Record Right Ultra Shift Lever Body Assembly | eBay
> from ebay or your LBS, as long as your brake lever fits, your all set.


Pay attention to what has been said in this thread. Instead of just adding to the confusion. OP has a pre-2009 Record shifter, which is a completely different design to the current Ultrashift. You have just swapped one 2009 or later shifter body for a different one.


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## DrSmile (Jul 22, 2006)

zero85ZEN said:


> This can be done. There is a guy in Europe (Italy I believe) that manufactures the indexed prawl for the 10 speed mechanism that gives it 10 clicks. If you do some Google searching you can find his YouTube video.
> I have considered doing this because I prefer the old lever design. I emailed him and he told me the cost of the part is 100 Euros. I may bite the bullet and buy a few at some point. Obviously you need to dissasemble and rebuild the mech to do this mod.


If this is true I'd be interested. Can you provide a link?

It should at least be theoretically possible to manufacture an index ratchet that has the right cable pull, assuming the pull isn't so much more that the ratchet wheel runs out of space. There seems to be some room at least on the stock one, although obviously you can't just cut in an extra detent because of the cable pull differences.


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## bikerjulio (Jan 19, 2010)

I remember reading about this guy several years ago, didn't really want to muddy the waters here any more than they already are. I've read zero reviews or comments from anyone that has actually bought one of his parts. The total cable pull of an 11-speed shifter is actually marginally less than a 10-speed, so in theory it's possible.

Here's a link. Isn't Google wonderful?


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## twelvepercent (Nov 7, 2004)

Paging the legendary C-40.
I believe he used 10 sp. Rear drr with 11 shifters.
he loves this sort of stuff; mm pull, etc.
would like to hear C-40 comment here....


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## PlatyPius (Feb 1, 2009)

Kerry Irons said:


> Prawl?


People really seem to have a problem with the word "Pawl". Usually they call it a paw. Prawl is a new one, for me.


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## bikerjulio (Jan 19, 2010)

If you click on the Art's link I provided you will see that Campy only changed the RD shift ratio for the 2015 Record/Chorus redesign. Prior to this any Campy 10-spd RD will would work with 11-spd shifters.

Nothing to do with this thread though.


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## twelvepercent (Nov 7, 2004)

Understood. 
Wishful thinking for my many 10sp. Shifters


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## bikerjulio (Jan 19, 2010)

twelvepercent said:


> Understood.
> Wishful thinking for my many 10sp. Shifters


I've still got a lot more bikes with 10 speed than 11. Like @drsmile I'm happy to use either, and have got enough 10-spd stuff to last my lifetime. No doubt 11-speed was an improvement in ergonomics, braking power and durability, but not so much that I feel deprived riding the 10-speed bikes.


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## twelvepercent (Nov 7, 2004)

I like the 16t on the 12-29 11sp. Cassette & the close ratios on the smaller ones...
For now, 10sp. 12-30 & 12-25 until I upgrade...


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## zero85ZEN (Oct 11, 2002)

Kerry Irons said:


> Prawl?


Lol! This is what typing responses after a few cocktails gets you...BUSTED by the word police. Yep PAWL is the word my inebriated brain was searching for.


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## zero85ZEN (Oct 11, 2002)

NM- Double post.


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## zero85ZEN (Oct 11, 2002)

This is the video I was referring to. I contacted the seller but never purchased the part. He claims it is even better quality than the original. I'd like to try this but the price is a bit steep and It's low on the priority list for me.



bikerjulio said:


> I remember reading about this guy several years ago, didn't really want to muddy the waters here any more than they already are. I've read zero reviews or comments from anyone that has actually bought one of his parts. The total cable pull of an 11-speed shifter is actually marginally less than a 10-speed, so in theory it's possible.
> 
> Here's a link. Isn't Google wonderful?


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