# Vino positive for blood doping



## eddy_mxl (Aug 21, 2004)

Just announced minutes ago on euro radio live coverage. Team Astana likely to leave tour... maybe. 

No further details yet. Terrible news but possible given his performance yesterday.


----------



## nrs-air (Jan 23, 2007)

Oh shiat. I didn't think they could test for that. Is it on the web yet? Becuase, everything on teh internet is true.

Damn, that just makes me sad.


----------



## baxter (Jun 27, 2004)

http://www.lequipe.fr/Cyclisme/breves2007/20070724_171249Dev.html


----------



## Einstruzende (Jun 1, 2004)

Seeing this thread was like getting hit in the stomach. Is it a surprise that pros are still doping? No, not a surprise, but this is a big deal. Bye bye Kloden, I was pulling for you.

If he got caught, then chances are someone else from Astana is going to get caught. They must have got their blood bags mixed up just like Hamilton and Santi Perez in 2004.


----------



## Stasera (Mar 6, 2006)

*Astana has left the Tour*

http://www.tuttobiciweb.it/home.htm


----------



## Bertrand (Feb 1, 2005)

What crappy news! How can these guys keep sticking it to their fans and supporters. This really takes the shine out of this year's Tour for me.


----------



## Einstruzende (Jun 1, 2004)

Bertrand said:


> What crappy news! How can these guys keep sticking it to their fans and supporters. This really takes the shine out of this year's Tour for me.


The rumors around Rasmussen weren't enough?


----------



## kokothemonkey (Jul 7, 2004)

This is so terrible for the sport. It is losing any credibility it had left to the outside public. I used to be a big Vino fan.:mad2:


----------



## JohnHenry (Aug 9, 2006)

A HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!


what an awesome champion Vino is....oh man. that is awesome. attack monkey goes down. he SO cheeky. yet SO scrappy. what an amazing competitor. 

Vino actually does accompluish NIL. Heck he actually accomplished negative.

lemme clarify: i used to enjoy watching him race.


----------



## tcruse11 (Jun 9, 2006)

After the Khazak Government said they would sponsor Astana for the next 10 years.


----------



## snowman3 (Jul 20, 2002)

*cycling news, et al..... well, that answers that I guess.*

Cycling News Flash for July 25, 2007
Edited by Laura Weislo

Vinokourov positive for transfusion, Astana quits Tour

By Gregor Brown in Pau

Alexander Vinokourov (Astana) 
Photo ©: AFP 
The Tour de France was rocked by news that Astana's battered team leader, Alexandre Vinokourov, tested positive for a homologous blood transfusion after Saturday's time trial in Albi. L'Equipe reported on Tuesday afternoon that the Kazakh's blood had shown evidence of a transfusion from another person with a compatible blood type in an analysis done in the Châtenay-Malabry laboratory.

The 33 year-old Kazakh was the winner of the stage 13 time trial in addition to Monday's stage 15 to Loudenvielle. A new blood control was apparently taken after stage 15 and is currently undergoing analysis. Homologous blood transfusions have been detectable since the 2004 Olympic games.

Upon receiving the news, the Astana team has allegedly quit the Tour, according to the French newspaper.

The news broke while Saunier Duval was holding its press conference and its rider David Millar was asked to respond. "That is a surprise. I don't know what to say," a shocked Millar stated. "Vino is one of my favourite riders. He is a guy of class. Given what we have done, with our current situation, we may as well pack our bags and go home," continued the Scot. 

After minute of reflection, he clarified, "No, I don't believe the Tour should stop here. We are 40 years after Simpson's death and the Tour still goes on."

More information as the story develops.


----------



## gebbyfish (Apr 26, 2002)

this really sucks!! I think the power to cheat is too strong at this level of competition. Until they make it a "one and done" kind of thing, they are never going to be able to get these guys to stop cheating. This race is going to lose its relevance just like the home run record will in the US when Barry Bonds breaks the record!


----------



## Einstruzende (Jun 1, 2004)

teh moreon said:


> A HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!
> 
> 
> what an awesome champion Vino is....oh man. that is awesome. attack monkey goes down. he SO cheeky. yet SO scrappy. what an amazing competitor.
> ...



I'm with you. That's what we get by being fanboys though. Keep getting let down ...

Should I remove my Kloden avatar? I still like the guy. He hasn't been busted per se, but lets get real here.


----------



## snowman3 (Jul 20, 2002)

Didn't Paul/Phil say during Stage 15 that Astana had just comitted to a 10year sponsorship? Too early to tell how the cards will land, but we'll see how it develops.

Pretty crappy that Kloden's chances are wiped out too.


----------



## FondriestFan (May 19, 2005)

Einstruzende said:


> The rumors around Rasmussen weren't enough?


Rumors never are.


----------



## Einstruzende (Jun 1, 2004)

Anyone want to guess who the other "victim" will be? It has to be a case of mixed bags. Andrey Kashenkin is of same nationality, I'll go with him.


----------



## bas (Jul 30, 2004)

eddy_mxl said:


> Just announced minutes ago on euro radio live coverage. Team Astana likely to leave tour... maybe.
> 
> No further details yet. Terrible news but possible given his performance yesterday.


WRONG FORUM


----------



## krankenstein (Sep 12, 2006)

Einstruzende said:


> I'm with you. That's what we get by being fanboys though. Keep getting let down ...
> 
> Should I remove my Kloden avatar? I still like the guy. He hasn't been busted per se, but lets get real here.


I am with you on this one. Can't say I am really surprise given cycling's track record... but why am I still disappointed? Guess I am not as cynical as I thought.


----------



## Einstruzende (Jun 1, 2004)

FondriestFan said:


> Rumors never are.


Where there's smoke, there's fire.

How about the fact that his national federation wants nothing to do with him because of suspicious behavior (and the fact that he can all of a sudden TT half decent)? At least Armstrong never had that sort of problem to deal with.


----------



## tcruse11 (Jun 9, 2006)

So is this a Landis situation all over again? Is there suppose to be a B sample testing before the UCI or anybody else announces someone has doped?


----------



## Einstruzende (Jun 1, 2004)

bas said:


> WRONG FORUM


It's rather applicable to pro racing and the Tour de France, no?


----------



## blackhat (Jan 2, 2003)

Einstruzende said:


> It's rather applicable to pro racing and the Tour de France, no?



I think he was mocking the <i>very</i> quick trigger finger of cool and francois of late...


----------



## Bocephus Jones II (Oct 7, 2004)

Einstruzende said:


> It's rather applicable to pro racing and the Tour de France, no?


Jezzus...might as well merge the doping and TDF forums for all the crap that's gone on. 

THEY ALL FRIGGIN DOPE!!!!


----------



## bas (Jul 30, 2004)

Einstruzende said:


> It's rather applicable to pro racing and the Tour de France, no?



My post about having Rasmoosen removed from the TdF was related to the TdF, but that got bumped over to Doping and *LOCKED*.

http://forums.roadbikereview.com/showthread.php?t=101477

Discussion on it:

http://forums.roadbikereview.com/showthread.php?t=101484


----------



## KMan (Feb 3, 2004)

*on a positive note*

at least cycling is doing agressive testing and doing something about it.

In the USA - if they had the same test and punishments there would not be enough players left in any of the Pro sports to even have a season......no baseball (Barry B would have been LUCKY to hit 100 home runs), no football, hockey, etc.

I look at it as at least our sport is doing something about cleaning up doping - everyone else is still too deep in media and $$ to care - they ALL just turn a blind eye and let the $$ lead what the do. 

Michael
www.MLKImages.com


----------



## rogger (Aug 19, 2005)

tcruse11 said:


> So is this a Landis situation all over again? Is there suppose to be a B sample testing before the UCI or anybody else announces someone has doped?


NO. A rider gets SUSPENDED after a positive A sample and FIRED after the B turns up positive as well. There is no B sample testing until the rider requests it personally.


----------



## MikeBiker (Mar 9, 2003)

Does this mean that Kim Kirchen and Cadel Evans will now be declaired stage winners? They were second on the stages that Vino won.


----------



## Bocephus Jones II (Oct 7, 2004)

bas said:


> My post about having Rasmoosen removed from the TdF was related to the TdF, but that got bumped over to Doping and *LOCKED*.
> 
> http://forums.roadbikereview.com/showthread.php?t=101477
> 
> ...


Well with all the pros in the TDF getting popped or suspected of doping I think it's a bit naive to put our heads in the sand about it. It's a major problem and it's not getting any better--the pros are just getting better at hiding it. Even after you boot out all the usual suspects and make them sign a contract stating they won't dope they still do it. Really pissed right now but not really surprised.


----------



## rogger (Aug 19, 2005)

bas said:


> My post about having Rasmoosen removed from the TdF was related to the TdF, but that got bumped over to Doping and *LOCKED*.
> 
> http://forums.roadbikereview.com/showthread.php?t=101477
> 
> ...


Oh boo-frigging-hoo, get over it.


----------



## coreyb (Aug 4, 2003)

bas said:


> My post about having Rasmoosen removed from the TdF was related to the TdF, but that got bumped over to Doping and *LOCKED*.


Rumors and speculation vs what appears to be actual news. Not exactly the same thing


----------



## bas (Jul 30, 2004)

coreyb said:


> Rumors and speculation vs what appears to be actual news. Not exactly the same thing


Everyone is calling for Rasmoosen's head to be yanked from the TdF.


----------



## bahueh (May 11, 2004)

*ya, sounds pretty familiar to stage 17 2006..*



tcruse11 said:


> So is this a Landis situation all over again? Is there suppose to be a B sample testing before the UCI or anybody else announces someone has doped?



loses 20+ minutes one day, bounces back to win the next...
they're all a bunch of liar and cheats. I haven't watched a single tour stage and now I don't regret it whatsoever...


----------



## bornin53 (Sep 3, 2005)

*Not Too Surprising*

Damn! Vino's amazing resurrection in the ITT and in stage 15 both made we wonder if he was using products, but it seemed too stupid a thing to do with all the scrutiny and with the grave consequences that are sure to follow.

At this point, I would not be surprised to see Astana disband since Vino was the teams very reason for being. This bodes ill for Disco finding a new sponsor too.

What's worse, this may not be the bottom of the pit, given the Rasmussen situation.

The only positive I can take out of this is that it may make Team Slipstream more attractive to sponsors and to pro riders looking for a clean team.

This is the low point in the sport since the news of OP and Floyd's positive.:cryin:


----------



## Einstruzende (Jun 1, 2004)

Watch the damage control:

He only took a transfusion because he was fighting infection and blood loss from the crash on stage 5.


----------



## snowman3 (Jul 20, 2002)

MikeBiker said:


> Does this mean that Kim Kirchen and Cadel Evans will now be declaired stage winners? They were second on the stages that Vino won.


Hmmm. Good point. I've never looked into the detailed DQ'd rules, etc. That would be interesting if they retro-actively award time bonuses.


----------



## uzziefly (Jul 15, 2006)

Son of a biiiaaaattttchhhhhh.... Faaaawwwwwwwkkkkkk...

DAMMITTTT... This sucks like hell. No, this blows. No, this is just plain horrendous and sad and just hard to stomach... I feel like crap... Just when this tour was supposed to be so awesome.. I hope, despite Astana dropping out, that it's a mistake of some sorts...


----------



## RkFast (Dec 11, 2004)

Where my channel changer.....Im going to watching something with some credibility.....like Pro Wrestling.

Man...this sucks.......


----------



## Bocephus Jones II (Oct 7, 2004)

uzziefly said:


> Son of a biiiaaaattttchhhhhh.... Faaaawwwwwwwkkkkkk...
> 
> DAMMITTTT... This sucks like hell. No, this blows. No, this is just plain horrendous and sad and just hard to stomach... I feel like crap... Just when this tour was supposed to be so awesome.. I hope, despite Astana dropping out, that it's a mistake of some sorts...


if it looks like a duck, quacks like a duck and swims like a duck it's probably a duck.


----------



## Dan Gerous (Mar 28, 2005)

Well, he was on the same team as Bjarne, Ullrich, Aldag... Then on the team of some guy named Saiz who worked with a certain Fuentes. He also worked with Ferrari... Not that surprising, it sure blows big time but it's not surprising...


----------



## bilydu (Aug 24, 2005)

Einstruzende said:


> Watch the damage control:
> 
> He only took a transfusion because he was fighting infection and blood loss from the crash on stage 5.



This was my first thought. He crashed, lost blood, got stitches and an infection. Somewhere along the line was he given a blood transfusion, and was this transfusion given by the team doctor or just some random nurse at a hospital?

Along those lines, anybody know what the procedure is when a rider gets hurt and loses a lot of blood? If they get a blood transfusion for medical reasons (losing a lot of blood due to crash) how can they ride again anytime soon since they will have someone elses blood in their system?


----------



## uzziefly (Jul 15, 2006)

Einstruzende said:


> Seeing this thread was like getting hit in the stomach. Is it a surprise that pros are still doping? No, not a surprise, but this is a big deal. Bye bye Kloden, I was pulling for you.
> 
> If he got caught, then chances are someone else from Astana is going to get caught. They must have got their blood bags mixed up just like Hamilton and Santi Perez in 2004.


They got their blood bags mixed up? What happened in the end? I forgot.


----------



## JohnHenry (Aug 9, 2006)

I don't feel bad for this edition of le tour.

The right guy got busted. A really, _*truly over hyped*_ loser/doper monkey.

I do feel bad for Kloden. As far as I know. He is not guilty of anything. Yet he sacrificed himself for this glory hound's interest.  

I feel bad for professional cycling, yes. Because it does more than any other sport to catch these guys. It's too bad that's perceived as cycling has more dopers.

Interesting. I wonder if CRAFT will stop making cycling gear now, after Phonak and Astana debauchle?

note: I guess VINO really did train the old eastern bloc way, after all.


----------



## bas (Jul 30, 2004)

RkFast said:


> Where my channel changer.....Im going to watching something with some credibility.....like Pro Wrestling.
> 
> Man...this sucks.......


Randy Orton looks like he's off the 'roids now. His head is still block, but he's lost a lot from his chest/arms.


----------



## tubafreak (Apr 24, 2006)

So, how many GT results go right in the crapper now? Vuelta '05, Giro '06, TdF '06, Vuelta '06, that's a whole year. God willing that DiLuca doesn't get taken down, otherwise it's just gonna be a sorry state of affairs.


----------



## mohair_chair (Oct 3, 2002)

MikeBiker said:


> Does this mean that Kim Kirchen and Cadel Evans will now be declaired stage winners? They were second on the stages that Vino won.


Not until after the B test, the hearing, the appeals, etc. Assuming Vino is guilty, these guys will get their wins credited in about three years. I'm sure the excitement they feel when they get the credit for those wins will be something they remember for the rest of their lives. Maybe the Tour can at least give them a ceremonial podium appearance during that year's race.


----------



## bas (Jul 30, 2004)

eddy_mxl said:


> Just announced minutes ago on euro radio live coverage. Team Astana likely to leave tour... maybe.
> 
> No further details yet. Terrible news but possible given his performance yesterday.



His best excuse will be he needed it after bleeding out so much from his crash.


----------



## Bocephus Jones II (Oct 7, 2004)

mohair_chair said:


> Not until after the B test, the hearing, the appeals, etc. Assuming Vino is guilty, these guys will get their wins credited in about three years. I'm sure the excitement they feel when they get the credit for those wins will be something they remember for the rest of their lives. Maybe the Tour can at least give them a ceremonial podium appearance during that year's race.


Maybe we should have the CEO of Amgen on the top spot this year? :mad2:


----------



## robdamanii (Feb 13, 2006)

If turns out to be true, Astana pulls out, and there's a fallout again, I think it points out that Cycling is in huge trouble. This is no longer about Lance, or Floyd, or Jan, or Vino...this is about the sport itself. It's about the destruction of honesty in what should be one of the purest displays of skill and pushing the limits of the human body. 

Those of us who race just for fun and ride for fun can't imagine the pressure a protour contender has to deal with, but damnit, we know what suffering is like. I know there's a huge desire to be successful, to make money, to appease sponsors. Nobody likes a loser. But there's just something wrong with being unable to compete without shooting yourself full of sh!t.

The best races I've ever seen have been amateur and college races, where people fight tooth and nail with everything they have, and puke it up at the end of the day. I'd hope there's no doping in amateur and college racing, but I'm probably wrong. To me, it's much more interesting to see actual athletes have at one another, rather than watch drug heads try to out dope each other.

I'm rambling terribly.


----------



## FondriestFan (May 19, 2005)

snowman3 said:


> Hmmm. Good point. I've never looked into the detailed DQ'd rules, etc. That would be interesting if they retro-actively award time bonuses.


Wouldn't affect Evans, since there are no time bonuses on TTs.


----------



## mtbykr (Feb 16, 2004)

*ok*



uzziefly said:


> Son of a biiiaaaattttchhhhhh.... Faaaawwwwwwwkkkkkk...
> 
> DAMMITTTT... This sucks like hell. No, this blows. No, this is just plain horrendous and sad and just hard to stomach... I feel like crap... Just when this tour was supposed to be so awesome.. *I hope, despite Astana dropping out, that it's a mistake of some sorts...*



I doubt it...if it was a mistake then i don't think Astana would be running for the boarder right now...but rather making a statement.


----------



## Dwayne Barry (Feb 16, 2003)

rogger said:


> NO. A rider gets SUSPENDED after a positive A sample and FIRED after the B turns up positive as well. There is no B sample testing until the rider requests it personally.


It's just inaccurate Floyd PR anyway. The UCI can comment on a doping case at any point in the process.


----------



## SeeVee (Sep 25, 2005)

Relax.....its not like he was fighting pit bulls or something.


----------



## bornin53 (Sep 3, 2005)

*Vino's Last Ride (pics)*

The link below is to Daily Peloton and has pictures of what may be Vino's last ride.

How freaking sad. Imagine all the people whose livelihoods will be destroyed if Astana disbands and think of how much their hero let them down.

Sad indeed:

http://www.dailypeloton.com/displayarticle.asp?pk=11461


----------



## Coot72 (Nov 11, 2002)

This news is terrible. Pro Cycling = WWF. It has no credibility. We might as well watch American Gladiators or whatever else on cable.


----------



## rocco (Apr 30, 2005)

Bocephus Jones II said:


> Jezzus...might as well merge the doping and TDF forums for all the crap that's gone on.
> 
> THEY ALL FRIGGIN DOPE!!!!



Cheating will never be stopped... in personal relationships, sport, business/commerce and government. We don't have Corrupt Politics forum and a separate Politics Only forum because they go hand in hand. Cycling in reality is no different.


----------



## Guest (Jul 24, 2007)

I think cycling should pull out of the olympics, then, instead of WADA, they can have a more suitable doping control system - like the NFL does :wink:


----------



## Fredke (Dec 10, 2004)

nrs-air said:


> Oh shiat. I didn't think they could test for that.


Tyler Hamilton didn't think so either.


----------



## cocoboots (Apr 13, 2006)

Fredke said:


> Tyler Hamilton didn't think so either.



neither did Tyler's twin...


----------



## zosocane (Aug 29, 2004)

WAIT!!! What about innocent until proven guilty? Rider's rights? The vanishing twin!!! :crazy: 

This is sad and pathetic. The ProTour is the WWF.


----------



## uzziefly (Jul 15, 2006)

It's just frikin effin ridiculously prevalent and true and real and sad all at the same time. 

Every sport has dopers. Smart guys don't get caught. Dumb ones do. Some smart ones get caught nonetheless. Track and Field is another sport where lots of people actually dope but it's tactical and done in offseason so when the season starts, the drugs wear off.

Those who dope don't compete for a period of time and only do when the stuff is no longer in the body. That's despicable nonetheless but very real and true and smart so to speak, as ironic as it might sound. 

NFL players, well, I don't know. Soccer players, well, they are usually clean, or at least, they appear to be. Idiots who dope get caught and some are caught for real drugs like cocaine. Dumb guys indeed.


----------



## A4B45200 (Aug 28, 2004)

SeeVee said:


> Relax.....its not like he was fighting pit bulls or something.


That's funny. I wonder how many people will get your remark! 

Stick a fork in him too.


----------



## DIRT BOY (Aug 22, 2002)

*This brings a new meaning to the term...*

"dumb jock." After al that went on last year with Puerto and after his OWN Country put thier a$$es on the line for him...









At least with the other major sports they control the damage much better and sweep things under the rug.

With all the testing these guys are STILL to stupid to get it! :mad2:

It's time for Cycling to really just start over. All new riders, DS and maybe even sponsors if they new about his.

How mnay times can thsi sport be hit like this and keep going?

After Basso and Petacchi going down, I give up on cheering for a rider.

Now I just sit back and watch racing. This was shaping up to be on of the best tours, now this.

How is next??????????????


----------



## -pops- (Sep 23, 2005)

Does anyone know how this story broke? I did not see it explicitly listed in the stories I read, but was this another case of L'Equipe announcing a positive from the Paris lab? Or did Astana announce the result?

Not that it changes the situation one way or another, but just asking...


----------



## uzziefly (Jul 15, 2006)

FondriestFan said:


> Wouldn't affect Evans, since there are no time bonuses on TTs.


What about the mountain stage? What if Evans was second on that stage or so? Wouldn't that throw the tour into a chaotic state (more than it already is now)

Thank goodness no other GC riders were close to Vino that day.


----------



## uzziefly (Jul 15, 2006)

bas said:


> Randy Orton looks like he's off the 'roids now. His head is still block, but he's lost a lot from his chest/arms.


Really? He looks kinda the same to me. Or rather, the same actually.


----------



## roadnewguy (Feb 11, 2006)

KMan said:


> at least cycling is doing agressive testing and doing something about it.
> 
> In the USA - if they had the same test and punishments there would not be enough players left in any of the Pro sports to even have a season......no baseball (Barry B would have been LUCKY to hit 100 home runs), no football, hockey, etc.
> 
> I look at it as at least our sport is doing something about cleaning up doping - everyone else is still too deep in media and $$ to care - they ALL just turn a blind eye and let the $$ lead what the do.


Yeah, but have you noticed how the media portrays cycling as the scape goat for everything that has to do with doping? That's terrible.


----------



## Pablo (Jul 7, 2004)

uzziefly said:


> Every sport has dopers. Smart guys don't get caught. Dumb ones do. Some smart ones get caught nonetheless. . . . Soccer players, well, they are usually clean, or at least, they appear to be. Idiots who dope get caught and some are caught for real drugs like cocaine. Dumb guys indeed.


Didn't Edgar Davids, Fernando Couto, and Maradona all get busted for performance enhancers? Do they even test in international soccer? Considering the advantage to be gained by having a step or tow on ou oppoenents in the 90th minute, I bet more are doing it than we know.


----------



## Guest (Jul 24, 2007)

Check out Velonews, even the ASO has been informed, so it's official.


----------



## uzziefly (Jul 15, 2006)

mtbykr said:


> I doubt it...if it was a mistake then i don't think Astana would be running for the boarder right now...but rather making a statement.


"Informed by the Astana management, the organisers of the Tour de France invited the team to withdraw, which was immediately accepted." -Velonews

So, actually, it could be a mistake. Though it's more of a "I truly, sincerly hope it's a mistake, though I know it's heck unlikely."

So waiiiitt..
He doped for the TT?

Then why was he sooo pleased he won the mountain stage like he didn't dope? He took up acting lessons now I see? 

and I guess the stage before that was just him playing possum maybe.


----------



## uzziefly (Jul 15, 2006)

Bocephus Jones II said:


> if it looks like a duck, quacks like a duck and swims like a duck it's probably a duck.


Err, it could be another animal in disguise.


----------



## uzziefly (Jul 15, 2006)

This also means Disco keeps the Team classification leadership now right? No?


----------



## mohair_chair (Oct 3, 2002)

cocoboots said:


> neither did Tyler's twin...


Tyler was warned by the UCI several times that they suspected him of blood doping, so he knew they could test for it. On the other hand, if they sent the warnings to his twin, then I could see how he could have been surprised.


----------



## JohnHenry (Aug 9, 2006)

A4B45200 said:


> That's funny. I wonder how many people will get your remark!
> 
> Stick a fork in him too.


i get it. funny!


----------



## Coot72 (Nov 11, 2002)

I think the cleanest sport on TV now is Poker -- how ironic is that!?


----------



## uzziefly (Jul 15, 2006)

Pablo said:


> Didn't Edgar Davids, Fernando Couto, and Maradona all get busted for performance enhancers? Do they even test in international soccer? Considering the advantage to be gained by having a step or tow on ou oppoenents in the 90th minute, I bet more are doing it than we know.


Davids and Jaap Stam did for nandrolone if I'm not wrong.

Mutu for cocaine (claimed that it was to improve his sex life.  )


I'm sure some are but I really think it's not in a bad state. Many players are honest and really just work their butts off in training to ensure they have good fitness and such.

They do test in club and international football. I mean, soccer. After every game if I'm not wrong.


----------



## Einstruzende (Jun 1, 2004)

mohair_chair said:


> Tyler was warned by the UCI several times that they suspected him of blood doping, so he knew they could test for it. On the other hand, if they sent the warnings to his twin, then I could see how he could have been surprised.


You mean if Dr Fuentes would have labeled the bags right.


----------



## KenS (Jan 28, 2004)

*Freaking sad and STOOPID*

Vino was the rider that was bringing excitement to the tour. All of the GC people have been just watching each other. 

But how STOOPID could Vino be. If you win a stage now then you are going to be tested, tested, tested.


----------



## DIRT BOY (Aug 22, 2002)

KenS said:


> Vino was the rider that was bringing excitement to the tour. All of the GC people have been just watching each other.
> 
> But how STOOPID could Vino be. If you win a stage now then you are going to be tested, tested, tested.


Again dumb jock! 

Maybe now he can go pick cotton in the fields there or go race camels in the dessert. He is DONE!


----------



## FondriestFan (May 19, 2005)

uzziefly said:


> It's just frikin effin ridiculously prevalent and true and real and sad all at the same time.
> 
> Every sport has dopers. Smart guys don't get caught. Dumb ones do. Some smart ones get caught nonetheless. Track and Field is another sport where lots of people actually dope but it's tactical and done in offseason so when the season starts, the drugs wear off.
> 
> ...


Funny how Fuentes' list of soccer players never really made it out into the light.


----------



## wipeout (Jun 6, 2005)

KenS said:


> Vino was the rider that was bringing excitement to the tour. All of the GC people have been just watching each other.


Did you miss Stage 15 and Contador's constant attacks against Rass? Come on, Vino was exciting only because he had to cheat to achieve that level of performance - the duel for GC is still alive and kicking! Oh, wait - is The Chicken cheating too?


----------



## capt_phun (Jun 14, 2004)

We need Don McLean to sing it:

We were singing bye, bye Tour de France,
Doped some blood, but the blood wasn't mine,
Them Kazhakstan's are drinking EPO & Wine,
Singing this'll be the day le Tour dies,
This'll be the day le Tour dies..


----------



## DIRT BOY (Aug 22, 2002)

capt_phun said:


> We need Don McLean to sing it:
> 
> We were singing bye, bye Tour de France,
> Doped some blood, but the blood wasn't mine,
> ...


LMFAO!!









Please keep going...


----------



## capt_phun (Jun 14, 2004)

Well its an 8 minute song, this will take a while to write it all....stand by...


----------



## uzziefly (Jul 15, 2006)

FondriestFan said:


> Wouldn't affect Evans, since there are no time bonuses on TTs.


Yeah that's right. But oh yeah, the whole Astana squad left so nevermind.


----------



## uzziefly (Jul 15, 2006)

bornin53 said:


> Damn! Vino's amazing resurrection in the ITT and in stage 15 both made we wonder if he was using products, but it seemed too stupid a thing to do with all the scrutiny and with the grave consequences that are sure to follow.
> 
> At this point, I would not be surprised to see Astana disband since Vino was the teams very reason for being. This bodes ill for Disco finding a new sponsor too.
> 
> ...


What's with Team Slipstream anyway?


----------



## Cervelo-er (Apr 10, 2004)

*His Positive was after the TT*



bahueh said:


> loses 20+ minutes one day, bounces back to win the next...
> they're all a bunch of liar and cheats. I haven't watched a single tour stage and now I don't regret it whatsoever...


Who knows when he actually did it. But the testing was after the TT.

Maybe the doc giving him stitches used the wrong bag?


----------



## uzziefly (Jul 15, 2006)

Einstruzende said:


> Watch the damage control:
> 
> He only took a transfusion because he was fighting infection and blood loss from the crash on stage 5.


What if he was really really getting the transfusion for the crash and to fight infection etc?


----------



## uzziefly (Jul 15, 2006)

bilydu said:


> This was my first thought. He crashed, lost blood, got stitches and an infection. Somewhere along the line was he given a blood transfusion, and was this transfusion given by the team doctor or just some random nurse at a hospital?
> 
> Along those lines, anybody know what the procedure is when a rider gets hurt and loses a lot of blood? If they get a blood transfusion for medical reasons (losing a lot of blood due to crash) how can they ride again anytime soon since they will have someone elses blood in their system?


I'm wondering with regards to this as well. What if they do need transfusions?


----------



## uzziefly (Jul 15, 2006)

FondriestFan said:


> Funny how Fuentes' list of soccer players never really made it out into the light.


What's his list?


----------



## uzziefly (Jul 15, 2006)

capt_phun said:


> We need Don McLean to sing it:
> 
> We were singing bye, bye Tour de France,
> Doped some blood, but the blood wasn't mine,
> ...


NICE!

Too bad the first line doesn't really go too well in sync.


----------



## tcruse11 (Jun 9, 2006)

He'd still have to have the paperwork to back it up. And if the paperwork was there we wouldn't even be having this discussion


----------



## capt_phun (Jun 14, 2004)

uzziefly said:


> NICE!
> 
> Too bad the first line doesn't really go too well in sync.


fixed it:
http://forums.roadbikereview.com/showthread.php?p=1137150#post1137150


----------



## mohair_chair (Oct 3, 2002)

-pops- said:


> Does anyone know how this story broke? I did not see it explicitly listed in the stories I read, but was this another case of L'Equipe announcing a positive from the Paris lab? Or did Astana announce the result?
> 
> Not that it changes the situation one way or another, but just asking...


I have no idea how it broke, but team Astana packing up and leaving would be cause for suspicion. They can't exactly hide that. It's the kind of thing you ask questions about.


----------



## dzeman (Apr 22, 2006)

*I know the Borat thing is old..*

but I couldn't help thinking about the bit when Borat is speaking about the Kazakhstan government sponsoring his film, "Come see my film or I will be execute." I wonder what kind of reception Vino will have waiting for him (if/when all of this pans out that he is guilty).


----------



## capt_phun (Jun 14, 2004)

http://www.ibelievevino.com/


----------



## dagger (Jul 22, 2004)

*Good*

I am glad he got caught. I would like to hear his response now.


----------



## uzziefly (Jul 15, 2006)

capt_phun said:


> fixed it:
> http://forums.roadbikereview.com/showthread.php?p=1137150#post1137150


You're my hero.


----------



## Len J (Jan 28, 2004)

ROFLMAO.........at all these "Vino is stupid" threads.

His MD mixed up the blood & gave him a teammates blood.....that's why he failed the test. If he uses his own blood, they never know. Wake up, this has been going on since the mid 1980's. It's called "Blood doping" and aids in recovery from hard efforts and increases oxygen processing.

Or is he stupid for doping.........get it, it's the only way he could compete!

Rasmussen is next....& oh by the way, Contador has been linked to Fuentes......although no definitive proof has come forward.

They all dope.

Len


----------



## Karl Hungus (Dec 14, 2005)

dzeman said:


> but I couldn't help thinking about the bit when Borat is speaking about the Kazakhstan government sponsoring his film, "Come see my film or I will be execute." I wonder what kind of reception Vino will have waiting for him (if/when all of this pans out that he is guilty).


They are going to stick him in a potassium mine.


----------



## nachomc (Aug 31, 2006)

I'm really dissapointed by this news  I don't understand why these guys continue to dope. The consequences are so huge and they seem to consistently get caught. 

I wonder what will happen to team Astana now? The team was founded based on sponsor dollars acquired by Vino based on his popularity in his home country. If he gets fired, or even if he doesn't, based on the fact he's doping, it seems likely that his sponsors will pull their dollars and he's going to be disgraced in his home country and in the sport. It's really unfortunate


----------



## KenS (Jan 28, 2004)

*Contador/Chicken was great but ...*



wipeout said:


> Did you miss Stage 15 and Contador's constant attacks against Rass? Come on, Vino was exciting only because he had to cheat to achieve that level of performance - the dual for GC is still alive and kicking! Oh, wait - is The Chicken cheating too?


Wipeout, you are right about Contador's attacks. I was thinking more about Leipheimer, Sastre, Evans just sitting on the Chicken's tail feathers.


----------



## Walt12 (Jan 4, 2007)

Call the Tour off now. Apologies to the clean riders (are there any?), but we can't have another Landis fiasco. Give all the sponsors their money back and send everyone home.

Next year the Tour is open only to non-Pro's with no team sponsors and no prize-money. Compete only for the love of the sport and don't expect to make a living out of it. Ditto the rest of the UCI calendar.

Let the dopers go find a sport where they make some money by putting their health at risk by cheating.


----------



## ti-triodes (Aug 14, 2006)

My wife and I were joking that Vino must have called Floyd before his time trial. Who knew he called Tyler?



Seriously, why is anyone suprised by this? Manolo Saiz, his Liberty/Seguros DS was caught last year buying thousands of dollars of doping products. Who was he buying them for, his dog?


----------



## bolt30 (Sep 4, 2006)

*Nail on the Head*



Len J said:


> ROFLMAO.........at all these "Vino is stupid" threads.
> 
> His MD mixed up the blood & gave him a teammates blood.....that's why he failed the test. If he uses his own blood, they never know. Wake up, this has been going on since the mid 1980's. It's called "Blood doping" and aids in recovery from hard efforts and increases oxygen processing.
> 
> ...


Len, you pretty much hit the nail on the head.


----------



## yanksphan (May 18, 2005)




----------



## ajoc_prez (Jul 14, 2004)

How can Vino lose so much time one day, then bounce back and dominate the next. Do the drugs, if he's on them, work that fast? I thought doping was something that you had to do for awhile and it really only helped you during your training. I didn't realize they had stuff that you could take one morning, and be super human that day.


----------



## OldEndicottHiway (Jul 16, 2007)

robdamanii said:


> If turns out to be true, Astana pulls out, and there's a fallout again, I think it points out that Cycling is in huge trouble. This is no longer about Lance, or Floyd, or Jan, or Vino...this is about the sport itself. It's about the destruction of honesty in what should be one of the purest displays of skill and pushing the limits of the human body.
> 
> Those of us who race just for fun and ride for fun can't imagine the pressure a protour contender has to deal with, but damnit, we know what suffering is like. I know there's a huge desire to be successful, to make money, to appease sponsors. Nobody likes a loser. But there's just something wrong with being unable to compete without shooting yourself full of sh!t.
> 
> ...


Not rambling at all, quite clear headed and I'm in total agreement. Thing is it's not just the Pros. I would hazard a guess that 90+% of these guys don't make there in the first place without doping/cheating in some form. The dude at the top pumps himself full of crap, so the next dude down feels compelled to do the same if he's ever going to beat dude # 1, and so on down the line it goes.

I was introduced to steroids as a Cat 3 by my buddy who always seemed to be one step ahead: skinnier, fitter, tougher, and better recovery. Once I started racing against the Cat 2 girls it was all over, because without taking the 'roids it was a doomed proposition.


----------



## Guest (Jul 25, 2007)

OldEndicottHiway said:


> I was introduced to steroids as a Cat 3 by my buddy who always seemed to be one step ahead: skinnier, fitter, tougher, and better recovery. Once I started racing against the Cat 2 girls it was all over, because without taking the 'roids it was a doomed proposition.


That's pretty scary. Reminds me of an article I read not too long ago where college level (I think) riders were found to have HCT levels > 46, which apparently is pretty abnormal for their age/base-miles.


----------



## twain (May 18, 2004)

Kloden was cleared for the same blood test as Vino.
But such a total shame that he can't go on. What a total waste of great talent.


----------



## ckelly49 (Jul 9, 2006)

My mom put it well before when she said, "You get excited watching them do these great things, only to find out it's not what you thought."

How depressing. I considered not going to the shore this weekend to watch the Tour, but I think I changed my mind.


----------



## blackhat (Jan 2, 2003)

ckelly49 said:


> My mom put it well before when she said, "You get excited watching them do these great things, only to find out it's not what you thought."
> 
> How depressing. I considered not going to the shore this weekend to watch the Tour, but I think I changed my mind.



as always, Mom's right.


----------



## walleyeangler (Nov 4, 2005)

I am totally disillusioned. I thought 1. they would develop more character at that level of the sport or 2. they would at least be smarter than rocks. Wrong on both counts. I've lived nearly 56 years. Why am I still so naive?  

IceMan


----------



## uzziefly (Jul 15, 2006)

One thing though.... Doping is bad... Doping and getting caught is stupiiddddd...

Not doping, well... That's awesome... But who doesn't? That's a wuestion we all wish we had an aswwer for...


----------



## enemyte (Jan 31, 2006)

check this out:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/asia-pacific/6915221.stm


----------



## theWdotY (Jun 10, 2003)

What did Paul and Phil have to say about this today? I'm going to be watching the prime time version so I won't be able to hear their reaction.


----------

