# 2015 Cannondale Super Six Evo HM and SRAM Etap



## CHL (Jun 24, 2005)

Hi Guys:

Last year, I purchased a 2015 Super Six Evo HM frameset. I could not install my previous BB30 Hollowgram SL crankset with the 102mm spindle as it was too short with the PF30 BB. I purchased a 109mm spindle, which comes standard with the SI SL2 crankset. Worked great!!! However.... A few month down the road and here comes SRAM ETap.

My drive side crankarm hit the front derailleur. Yeah, you read right, it it the friggin front derailleur as the body is considerably wider than my old mechanical SRAM Force derailleur. 

Switched spacers that came with the 109mm spindle and the larger spacer is too wide. Installed 3 bearing covers and managed to get it working. I installed the smaller spacer and the wave washer on the non drive side of the BB. 

Anyone run into this problem? Are the one piece spider that much thicker than the original first general spider?

CHL


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## loxx0050 (Jul 26, 2013)

While I can't answer your question I would like to see a pic of the problem areas.


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## ARPRINCE (Feb 12, 2011)

You may want to inquire with this guy although the frame is a CAAD12. Looks like he is using SL with eTAP.

Bike Forums - View Single Post - The Cult of CAAD...


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## CHL (Jun 24, 2005)

Made some more changes tonight, although minor. I had a lot of shims. On the drive side, I now use the 2-2.6mm (i forget the exact thickness) with six shims. On the non drive side, I have two shims and the wave washer. I really could use two more shims to achieve a better compression of the wave washer but I honestly, at this point, I'll settle for what works. 

The derailleur has about 1.5-2.0mm clearance to the drive-side crankarm. Since I've shifted the axle to the left, I added a few shims to my non drive side pedal. 

Shifting wise, I"m quite impressed with the speed and cleanliness of the shifts. I still think that a properly tuned mechanical will give electronics competition but I need to put serious miles on the group before forming a valid evaluation of the group. Lucky for me the Santa Cruz Mountains Challenge is around the corner. 100 Miles with 11K of elevation should be a nice test bed.


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## Dan Gerous (Mar 28, 2005)

Looking at the eTap front derailleur, I see what you mean. The outside swing link between the main body and the cage sticks out a bit more than other front derailleurs...

Interestingly, all the Cannondale 2017 models that are specs with eTap are not built with Hollowgrams but with SRAM Red cranksets. At first I thought it was due to SRAM only selling eTap as a whole to OEM (that's what they did at first with their Eagle XX1 MTB group) but maybe it's because of that clearance... Hollowgram arms are quite thick.

I'm looking into getting an Evo Disc with eTap but wanted to put a Hollowgram SISL2...


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## ARPRINCE (Feb 12, 2011)

OK so I asked him. It looks like it was pretty straight forward when he switched his crank. No additional shims needed for the CAAD12.


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## Hapsmo (Jun 11, 2010)

Thats my Caad12 you are refering too. Used a SL crank though. So maybe the siSL2 has different arm shapes. Sounds like the case. Heres my clearance with SL arms and a diagram of the exact spacers and shims, all stock. Sorry for the crappy pics, but you can see the spacing...


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## CHL (Jun 24, 2005)

I wonder if it could be the derailleur hanger. There is a triangular shim that you install behind the body of the front derailleur, that is afixed with a 2mm hex bolt. I use the largest shim provided by SRAM. I wonder which size shim you use with your CAAD12 frame.

Also saw a Super Six DI2 edition today. The bike had the stock Hollowgram SL2 with stock hardware. The DI2 Derailleur had Huge amount of clearance with the crank arm. 

CHL


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## Hapsmo (Jun 11, 2010)

I used the smallest shim. Although the derailleur is fixed and the shim was meant so theres no flex from the slight gap in the bottom. At least thats how I understand it. You torqued the crank arms with a torque wrench to the proper torque spec? Theres no play in the spindle is there?

Sorry about my last response. I miss read your post. I thought you were using the SiSL2 arms. You should have it setup exactly like the diagram. They do say for non drive side you can use up to three plastic shims (.5mm). But you need to use the 2.5mm spacer on the non drive side, not the larger spacer that was used for standard BB30. But the drive side only has the 2.5mm spacer and bearing cover.


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## Dan Gerous (Mar 28, 2005)

There is a slight difference in arms shape between the old SL and newer SISL2 and 3D-forged SI. The new ones have a small taper on the inside of the arms at the pedal ends, so theorically, they should have more clearance but only near the end, the taper is small.

Other than that, using an old SL crankset but with the newer 109mm spindle, you get a wider q-factor but mostly on the non-drive-side. The drive-side arms have the same geometry new and old, but the new non-drive-side arms don't extend as much 'outside' as the old one so the new arms on new 109mm spindles has the same q-factor and centered stance as the old setup. But old arms on a new spindle with spacers installed as the manual states will make the q-factor 5mm wider but that 5mm movement will be mostly on the non-drive-side so the stance wont be centered anymore. But given the new spindle has no built-in lip, you could easily center the stance by having more spacers on the drive-side and less non-drive-side compared to the manual, and that would also add clearance for the eTap front derailleur... but your feet will be spaced 5mm further apart still.

Does that make sense? 

Regarding other front derailleurs than SRAM eTap, no issues. Di2, Shimano mechanical, SRAM Red mechanical, Campy... they all have enough clearance and work with Hollowgrams. The particularity of eTap is that, when shifted on the big ring, the cage's outer plate is not the point that sticks out the most as is the case with other derailleurs, it's the swing link part just above the cage itself that sticks further out...


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## Dan Gerous (Mar 28, 2005)

Oh and, CHL, the SpideRing doesn't change anything at the BB, same width as the 5 bolt spiders. But, when Cannondale introduced the Evo and switched to PF30, they changed the shape of the spider's lockring as the old one didn't fit with the PF30 cups that extend a little outside the frame's BB shell... but now that you have a 109mm spindle, the lockring doesn't matter.


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## Dan Gerous (Mar 28, 2005)

Looks like the newer Evo (PF30a) works with eTap + SISL2... Looks stunning too.


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## CHL (Jun 24, 2005)

Dan:

Did you have to modify the installation in any way or is complete stock on the drive side (2.5mm spacer only).

Also, how does it shift with the Cannondale chainrings?

Thanks,
chl


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## Dan Gerous (Mar 28, 2005)

Sorry, that's not mine, just a photo I found on the web, a guy in Italy I think... mine will have disc brakes! :wink5:


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## ARPRINCE (Feb 12, 2011)

I had the eTap installed last week. No issues on my CAAD12 as well. 

Shifting was great and no chain rub on BIG-BIG, BIG-SMALL, etc. compared to my mechanical Ultegra. Using KMC chain + DuraAce 12-28.


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## CHL (Jun 24, 2005)

How much clearance do you have between the front derailleur outer cage, the swing arm of the front derailleur and crank arm? On my SS6 EVO HM, I probably have 1mm perhaps on both (crank arm to swing arm and derailleur cage). 

I looked at my Slice with a SRAM Red 10 Speed Crankset (105 front derailleur) and I have lots, I think at at close to a 1cm. 

You have no chain rub in small chainring/small cogset? BTW, looks like!!!

CHL


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## ARPRINCE (Feb 12, 2011)

OK so I checked. I do have a rub SMALL-SMALL. It's just that I never used that combo so I made a blanket statement. My clearance is approx close to 1.5mm (used an allen wrench) with FD at the big ring. It's from the crank arm to the first/top limit screw that protrudes from the FD.


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## tnicoluci (Aug 22, 2016)

I have just installed an eTap mini group in my Cannondale and also got the same clearance issue with Hollowgram crank arm - check pic attached, I got 1mm max.

Nevertheless, I tried yesterday and shifting was very good. No rubbing after 1st ride...
But it is so close I guess it will eventually touch, so I am after a new pair of shorter limit screws.

Anyone can help me finding a supplier for these screws, or a contact in US who might have it?

I am afraid to move forward with any grinding... never done it before.


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## Stumpy2011 (Aug 1, 2011)

My bike is an Evo 2012 with SL cranks with Compact Spider rings (50t-34t)
Will e-tap works ?
Thanks


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## tnicoluci (Aug 22, 2016)

I guess so, but I think you are going to have the same issue of minimal to none clearance between right crank arm and FD limit screws.
When you buy eTap make sure to get the shorter limit screws - and please let me know where you found them  I am still seeking...


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## Dan Gerous (Mar 28, 2005)

Can you find limit screws in the same length? If the bolt head is deep enough, it should be pretty easy to shave off the length that sticks out with a Dremel, if the head isn't very deep, you might be able to cut the other end, just making sure the thread is not messed up in the process. Obviously I'd do this with the screws taken off the derailleur to be safe and I'd like to keep some spares, just in case...


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## tnicoluci (Aug 22, 2016)

Agree with you. Might give it a try... not sure shorter limit screws are available anyway. Thanks!


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## CHL (Jun 24, 2005)

Hello tnicolluci:


Are you using the SL, SI or SI-SL2 cranksets?


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## ARPRINCE (Feb 12, 2011)

I don't have the problem but decided to get the shorter screws from SRAM via the store I bought my eTap from. I got them today.

UPDATE: So I was wondering if these are really the shorter screws. It looks pretty long to me. Also I know that one of the (upper?) limiting screw is reverse threaded and the thread looks the same to me. I don't want to mess up my current set-up so I sent email inquiry to SRAM.


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## Dan Gerous (Mar 28, 2005)

ARPRINCE said:


> I don't have the problem but decided to get the shorter screws from SRAM via the store I bought my eTap from. I got them today.


Didn't know such bolts existed... good to know. :thumbsup:


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## tnicoluci (Aug 22, 2016)

CHL said:


> Hello tnicolluci:
> 
> 
> Are you using the SL, SI or SI-SL2 cranksets?


Hi there - I'm using the SiSL2.
It is OK, I have been using it for a couple of months and the groupset is great - but it does rub the screws when I sprint or stroke hard.

I have received from Sram a pair of new limit screws - will try to install them next w-end. Let's see. If they are not short as I need them to be I will try to cut them with a Dremel - at least if I ruin them I still have the originals


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## CHL (Jun 24, 2005)

Hello:

How did you acquire the shorter set screws. I have not seen any means of ordering anything from the SRAM website.

CHL


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## ARPRINCE (Feb 12, 2011)

You can only have your LBS or the store you bought your eTap from order it for you. I had Competitive Cyclist get it for me at no cost to me.

From their email correspondence to me:
----------------------------------------------
_
We do have shorter limit screws available. Please have your local dealer (or Competitive Cyclist) contact our Dealer Service warranty department, and they can source the replacement shorter grub screws for you.


Regards,
SRAM USA
www.sram.com


Service and Technical Documents:
www.sram.com/service_
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## CHL (Jun 24, 2005)

Just to update this thread. I installed a SRAM Etap BB30 crankset and all the problems went away. The drivetrain runs smoother and quieter since it doesn't have the weird chain angle. The arms of the the SRAM crankset are not as thick as the Hollowgram. Perhaps this was the issue...

Happy that it got solved, not happy that I have to remove my Hollowgrams as I have been using the same crankset for nearly 10 years, ever since Cannondale released the Hollowgram SL crankset.

The black chainrings look cool on the computer screen but it looks ridiculously stupid on a small grey colored frameset... Can't we go back to the old polished look?


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## Hapsmo (Jun 11, 2010)

Little update. I purchased a compact sisl2 spider and installed it on my Caad12 with etap. This caused my drive side crank arm to contact the fr cage. I was running praxis mid compact prior with no issue. I am thinking there is either an offset issue or thikness issue.


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## CHL (Jun 24, 2005)

To me it does appear that the Hollowgrams have much thicker crank arms than the SRAM Red crankarms. 

Do your crankarms hit the rear section of the derailleur cage or do they hit the knuckle that holds the cage (where the set screws are installed).

CHL


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## Hapsmo (Jun 11, 2010)

The arns might be thicker. My drive side arm hits the rear of the cage. It was hitting the motor, but i was able to adjust it slighy angled. It worked great with praxis rings. I got it to clear with the new sisl2 rings but its by a hair. Im trying to decide if i want to go with red cranks or get compact praxis rings. I think the issue for me is the offset of the sisl2 rings. They sit more flush to the arms then the praxis rings did. Ill try and mic the rings at the base, to see if they are substantially thicker.

So i checked the sisl2 spider, it has a deeper offset. The arm sits deeper then the praxis chainrings, so the sisl2 outter ring is much closer to the arm. My LBS carries praxis rings so I may buy the compact rings. They are only $150 or something


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