# Tarmac S Works vs Pro SL3



## jnbrown (Dec 9, 2009)

I got fitted and rode the S Works Tarmac SL3 today. Its an awesome bike. I have pretty much decided I am going to buy a frameset but can't decide between the S Works or the Pro. The S Works is $3000 has 11r carbon and you can get it with a BB30 bottom bracket. The Pro is $2100 has 10r carbon.
I don't think I am going to notice any difference in the stiffness or weight. I called Specialized customer service and the person I spoke with thought that the S Works would ride a little bit smoother due to more attention in the layup of the carbon which partly explains the higher cost.
I am 53 and this maybe my last road bike. I don't want to spend $900 more if the difference isn't going to be noticeable. 
If the ride is smoother then I probably would get the S Works and the BB30 is just icing on the cake I guess.


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## Tagez (Jun 14, 2010)

I own an SL3 S-Works and love the ride. If this is going to be your last bike, get the S-Works. You'll thank yourself down the road. No pun intended!


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## jnbrown (Dec 9, 2009)

Tagez said:


> I own an SL3 S-Works and love the ride. If this is going to be your last bike, get the S-Works. You'll thank yourself down the road. No pun intended!


I was told S Works framesets will not be available until March - April
I don't mind waiting if its worth it.


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## PJ352 (Dec 5, 2007)

I've never ridden the S-Works Tarmac so take what I have to say with a grain of salt, but I'm a firm believer in the choices in wheels, tires and pressures more than equalizing any differences in ride qualities between two similar framesets.

You'll gain about 1/3 lb. and lose the BB30 going with the Pro, but IMO the difference in price more than justifies this 'loss'. As always, YMMV.


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## purdyd (Jun 18, 2010)

jnbrown said:


> I got fitted and rode the S Works Tarmac SL3 today.I am 53 and this maybe my last road bike. .


you only live once, get the s-works

i'm not sure where you live but the framesets have been out since late summer


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## 32and3cross (Feb 28, 2005)

love my Pro and I didn't not want a BB30 so taht made it an easy choice and the extra $ I saved.


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## PJ352 (Dec 5, 2007)

jnbrown said:


> I am 53 and this maybe my last road bike.


I didn't catch this until purdyd responded.

There are a number of members here on RBR that are at or above 70 and still riding regularly. That said (and God willing), I can't imagine why you couldn't do the same.

Not that CF bikes aren't able to last that long, but in 17 years of riding don't you think that (for whatever reason) you'll be apt to buy another bike? I know I am!!


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## Tagez (Jun 14, 2010)

S-Works is the best for a reason. It's worth the wait, it's worth the price, it's worth it period. That being said PJ did point out that there are MANY other factors that play into ride. What kind of wheels, bars, stems, ect...will you be using?


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## jnbrown (Dec 9, 2009)

Tagez said:


> S-Works is the best for a reason. It's worth the wait, it's worth the price, it's worth it period. That being said PJ did point out that there are MANY other factors that play into ride. What kind of wheels, bars, stems, ect...will you be using?


I will be using the wheels and most of the parts from from my Trek.
I built the wheels myself using White Industries hubs, CX Ray spokes, Velocity Aerohead rims. They are lighter than the wheels that come on the S-Works bike.

The other parts are a mix and are fairly new. Ultegra 6700 crankset and rear derailleur, Campy Centuar shifters and front derailleur. Not sure why the stem matters as long as it is good quality, I have always liked Ritchey WCS 4 Axis but Specialized makes a stem that would match better. While some of these components are not highest end and could be thought of as below S-Works level I don't think they would detract from the performance.

My thought was to start out using the Ultegra crankset with a BB30 adapter and then eventually upgrade to the S-Works cranks. I am little confused right now what the advantages would be. After some reading it seems unclear if BB30 is really better than Shimano 24mm. Supposedly BB30 is lighter and stiffer but I can't find any weight numbers on the S-Works crankset and I am not sure I would notice a difference in stiffness. After further research the claimed weight on S-Works crankset is 597g vs 788g for 6700. I do like the look of S-Works crank but that doesn't justify the cost in itself.

I found another shop that has an SL3 Pro so I am going to ride that next week and hopefully I will be able to tell if there is any advantage to the S-Works frame and BB30.
Of course there is always the option to get S-Works with a standard BB.


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## jnbrown (Dec 9, 2009)

After sleeping on this I am leaning towards the S-Works.
Reasons being I have not purchased a new bike in 17 years.
My wife said go for it (Shocking)
Test rides can only tell you so much. I will be test riding a Tarmac SL3 Pro but several days have passed and it maybe difficult if not impossible to compare.
Maybe after the riding the bike over a longer period of time the S-Works would be noticeably better.
I like the Specialized crankset but have mixed feeling if its worth the extra money or better than Shimano Ultegra 6700 its certainly lighter thoough. The thought of buying a OSBB frame and using an adapter for Shimano cranks seems like a kludge and maybe defeats the purpose of OSBB so I would rather buy the threaded frame if I am going the Shimano route.


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## carlislegeorge (Mar 28, 2004)

If money's no object, and the fit/geometry is exactly the same (more important you're happy with the feel after a test ride), and you are happy with the color, I would go S-Works. I got the Pro SL3 but wanted Project Black, and wanted it NOW. I put the $900 savings into some Dura Ace upgrades. The 100 or so grams weight difference wasn't a $900 issue for me.


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## MShaw (Jun 7, 2003)

I've been told that the difference between the S-Works and the Pro is about 10g due to a slightly different layup. 

...but there's no S-Works on it, which makes it not nearly as droolworthy. If you have the $$ and like the bike, get the S-Works. I call its 'the biggest, gnarliest' philosophy: you get the biggest, gnarliest thing you can afford. That way it lasts longer, works better doing it, and you won't have to replace it as often.

HTH

M


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## alexp247365 (Dec 29, 2009)

Part of the exclusivity of ordering only the frame is the waiting time it takes to get. While full bikes aren't too hard to come by, a frame only can take months (depending on your size.)

I ordered a 2011 S-works frame only in August 2010. Still waiting.......

Also, the S-works is internally braced compared to the pro.. another difference I did not see mentioned with a quick glance of the replies above.

If you are buying a frame only, the biggest upgrade you can make from there would be the wheel set. 1000-2000 for top notch. You can spend more, but your in the realm of boutique parts then.


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## jnbrown (Dec 9, 2009)

Test rode the Tarmac SL3 pro today.
I felt that the S-Works rode a little better so I am going with it.
I was told delivery could be end of March.


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## Tagez (Jun 14, 2010)

Good choice...enjoy the ride!


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## roadie01 (Apr 13, 2010)

I'm on my second S-Works frame after my 2006 Tarmac SL was broken to pieces in an auto pedistrian accident. Luckily no one was hurt!

The BB30 standard in the 2011 S-Works frame comes with a carbon shell shaving a few grams compared to the metal threaded shell of the english thread bottom bracket found on the Pro SL3. The BB30 offers allows the bearings to be placed further outboard and for a larger crank spindle diameter. The actual difference is the bottom bracket surface area of the frame is widened compared to external bottom bracket bearings. This increases frame stiffness. In my humble opinon the the BB30 provides a cleaner look. 

As mentioned in this thread the S-Works contains internal ribs which provides a stiffer ride. 

The 11r carbon is a higher grade. I suspect that 11r compared to 10r is the same as a higher modulus grade which yeilds a higher strength to weight ratio. This equates to a lighter frame with the same strength. I also would guess that due to a bit less material being used there is a little more flex which equals a better ride from the frame. For a good example pop over to the Chinese bike thread and compare the carbon weave of a 3k frame to a 12K. 

I agree with PJ that wheels, tire selection and pressure make a much bigger difference in ride quality.


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## jnbrown (Dec 9, 2009)

I agree the BB30 looks nicer and Specialized crankset matches the frame really well.
Its part aesthetics and part function.
I was told by Specialized customer service that the S-Works frame uses "pitch" fibers in certain areas which a different type of carbon fiber and its very expensive and difficult to work with I am told so hence the higher cost.


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## skygodmatt (May 24, 2005)

jnbrown said:


> I agree the BB30 looks nicer and Specialized crankset matches the frame really well.
> Its part aesthetics and part function.
> I was told by Specialized customer service that the S-Works frame uses "pitch" fibers in certain areas which a different type of carbon fiber and its very expensive and difficult to work with I am told so hence the higher cost.


That's the thing about carbon fiber frames. I have no idea what that means and neither does the average rider. If you took a hacksaw to the frame, you still wouldn't know any different. 
That gives the marketing department a lot of freedom. 

Sure, I bet it costs an extra $20 and 15 minutes of labor for the layup..who knows? Tough to tell fact from fiction. 
My Giant was $1300. The SL was $2800 and 140 grams lighter. At 200 lbs I still couldn't notice a stiffness difference. Both bikes rode sublime. 
I saved $1500 and applied it to great parts which saved more than 140 grams. 
Buy some awesome wheels.


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## serious (May 2, 2006)

Go with the S-Works if you can afford it. 

But I doubt the average rider can notice any difference in those frames. The difference will come at extremes such as sprinting, fast descents (maybe) and rougher roads (maybe). And wheels will almost certainly mute those differences to some extent.


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## jnbrown (Dec 9, 2009)

For me it came down to I thought I felt a difference during the test ride although I can't say for sure. But probably more important I am paying the higher price for the S-Works technology which I perceive as possibly being a better ride. I don't think you appreciate how a bike performs until you have been on it for several months. The price difference in the framesets is $900 so it's not huge. It would be nice if Specialized gave out more information about the construction details of each model but they are not alone. Cannondale has HiMod, Trek has OCLV Red, etc.


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## mdutcher (May 1, 2005)

*S-works Rocks!*

I rode the 2010 Tarmac Pro SL last year. Absolutely loved the thing. I came from a Roubaix and it was a lot better for my style of riding now. I did not think that I was going to be selling the Tarmac Pro any time soon. Well, then I saw the new 2011 Tarmac S-works SL3. I was in awe with the graphics and looks. It had cool appeal. I then went through the whole thought process, much like you did, in trying to justify the additional expense for the S-works. I never owned an S-works, but have always wanted to. I finally decided to list the Tarmac Pro and commit to the new S-works. I received mine in December - a lot sooner than expected. Mine is not BB30, but the standard. I built it up with new SRAM Red and could not be happier with it. S-works stuff is top notch and it rides like a true race rocket to me. Not sure if it is psychological, but something is telling me that this is a great upgrade with the lighter weight factor, ride factor, and coolness factor.

I was professionally fit to the bike just before Christmas and I am dialed and ready to go. However, I am sad right now as I can't ride the thing now due to crappy/snowy weather. Dreaming of nice sunny days and endless road rides right now.

Congrats! You will enjoy your new ride. And welcome to the S-works family.

Here is a picture of my ride for your viewing pleasure.


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## Ronman (Feb 12, 2007)

Actually, the Pro does have the internal ribbing. My Pro Sl3 frame arrived last week and the ribbing is easily seen inside the head tube, identical to what Specialized shows for it's S-Works frame. 
Specialized has a good bit of information on its Fact carbon technology, and the difference between the S-works and Pro are primarily the 10r and 11r carbon. I was looking at both but couldn't justify the extra $$$. I'm not being critical of anyone who wants to spend the extra $$ for an S-Works, (they are very, very cool), but from what I have read the differences are probably less than some seem to think. From the Specialized FACT pdf I read (link below) it's primarily the 11r carbon and use of 'Super high modulus' vs 'High modulus' in the BB area. 

It's also interesting that Specialized states in the literature that a wider BB does not necessarily make for a laterally stiffer frame. It's interesting reading. 

http://www.velocity.nnov.ru/?id=6453


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## RkFast (Dec 11, 2004)

I dunno.....Im not even CLOSE to being "worthy" of the S-Works, but ordered it anyway. If you can swing getting a pro level state of the art piece of equirpment, why would you NOT?

Its the bike I always dreamed of owning and the stars aligned this year to allow me to afford it.... so why not stop dreaming and start living?


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## Hairy Legs (Sep 19, 2006)

jnbrown said:


> Test rode the Tarmac SL3 pro today.
> I felt that the S-Works rode a little better so I am going with it.
> I was told delivery could be end of March.


So which frame did you go with (size,color, BB)?


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## jnbrown (Dec 9, 2009)

mdutcher said:


> I rode the 2010 Tarmac Pro SL last year. Absolutely loved the thing. I came from a Roubaix and it was a lot better for my style of riding now. I did not think that I was going to be selling the Tarmac Pro any time soon. Well, then I saw the new 2011 Tarmac S-works SL3. I was in awe with the graphics and looks. It had cool appeal. I then went through the whole thought process, much like you did, in trying to justify the additional expense for the S-works. I never owned an S-works, but have always wanted to. I finally decided to list the Tarmac Pro and commit to the new S-works. I received mine in December - a lot sooner than expected. Mine is not BB30, but the standard. I built it up with new SRAM Red and could not be happier with it. S-works stuff is top notch and it rides like a true race rocket to me. Not sure if it is psychological, but something is telling me that this is a great upgrade with the lighter weight factor, ride factor, and coolness factor.
> 
> I was professionally fit to the bike just before Christmas and I am dialed and ready to go. However, I am sad right now as I can't ride the thing now due to crappy/snowy weather. Dreaming of nice sunny days and endless road rides right now.
> 
> ...


Nice! I ordered that same color. Hope it shows up in March like they said.
Is that an Easton carbon seat post? I need a zero setback and Specialized makes one but its kind of pricey.


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## mdutcher (May 1, 2005)

jnbrown said:


> Nice! I ordered that same color. Hope it shows up in March like they said.
> Is that an Easton carbon seat post? I need a zero setback and Specialized makes one but its kind of pricey.


Yep, it is the EC90 zero offset. I like it.


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