# Cat 5



## spinnertsaf (Jun 3, 2008)

I am 55 years old and want to race a cat 5 race this year. I need to know how many miles a week, and hours, and what consistant speed, do i need to give it a whirl. I have good equipment and a hell of a drive to do it. Please help!


----------



## Creakyknees (Sep 21, 2003)

You will need the ability to:
- stand with one foot clipped, start, clip in and accelerate to 25mph within 100 meters
- ride (alone) at 27 mph on flat / windless ground for approx 8 minutes. 
- ride within 12 inches of riders on all sides, at a sub-threshold pace at 25 mph
- corner a typical office park turn at 24 mph, within 12 inches of riders on all sides

That's a good start.


----------



## edwin headwind (Aug 23, 2004)

spinnertsaf said:


> I am 55 years old and want to race a cat 5 race this year. I need to know how many miles a week, and hours, and what consistant speed, do i need to give it a whirl. I have good equipment and a hell of a drive to do it. Please help!


I'm going to turn 50 in a few months, and I can train to race as hard as I did when I was 30 however at (our) age recovery is the key. 48 hours between interval workouts, etc. Otherwise it's the same at ay age. with age comes increased responsibility with job, family, etc. , so you need to set a goal such as an upcoming race and make the most of your time on the bike with every workout structured to gain fitness and suplesse in a systematic way so that you arrive at your first race with confidence.
I highly recommend friel's book "Cycling Past 50". it can be had used on sites like Amazon pretty cheap (I paid one dollar + $2.00 shipping). It's a wealth of information for guy's like us and provides some excellent training plans.

One caveat; The CAT-5 field is a mish mash of first time racers from every age group. So you will be racing with nervous 20 year old, sandbaggers, and bad bike handelers. Crashes are common. You may want to enter in the Masters field depending on your fitness!


----------



## nightfend (Mar 15, 2009)

All you need to do is find a few local teams/fast group rides and do those. See if you can keep up. Get the rest of the advice you need from those fast group rides. Just make sure your group ride is actually made of other bike racers. there is a significant speed difference between amateur racers and just typical bike riders.

Don't worry about speed or any of that. Your speeds will be significantly different in a large group of riders than alone, so it's pointless to try and gauge this on your own.


----------



## Alaska Mike (Sep 28, 2008)

I second the notion that speeds vary, as altitude, temperature, terrain, and group composition/fitness all play a role.

If you haven't ridden in a group before (especially a "spiritied" one) and have the opportunity to do group rides, I would go that way. It's not completely necessary, but it makes the transition a lot easier.

I would start doing interval training, because in racing it's not the pace that gets you, it's the accelerations. Working on repeated, sprint-type efforts for 30 seconds to a minute will help you keep up when the pack suddenly speeds up.


----------



## Travis (Oct 14, 2005)

- ride (alone) at 27 mph on flat / windless ground for approx 8 minutes. 

not required


----------



## Undecided (Apr 2, 2007)

edwin headwind said:


> You may want to enter in the Masters field depending on your fitness!


Generally masters races are limited to category 1-4 or 1-3 racers if only one race is on offer for that age group (although I've seen more and more races that have both a 1-3 field for an age group and a 4/5 field for the same age group). Even if not so limited, only an exceptionally talented cyclist could try his or her first race with 1s and 2s and not find it to be absolutely shocking (to say nothing of the danger that an inexperienced racer would create in such a field).

But generally, if the OP has some group rides available that include a lot of bike racers, once he's fairly comfortable with that, he should be ready to try some races. 

And "chapeau" to the OP for wanting to give it a try.


----------



## iheartbenben (Mar 18, 2011)

Travis said:


> - ride (alone) at 27 mph on flat / windless ground for approx 8 minutes.
> 
> not required


but highly recommended.


----------



## den bakker (Nov 13, 2004)

Creakyknees said:


> You will need the ability to:
> - stand with one foot clipped, start, clip in and accelerate to 25mph within 100 meters
> - ride (alone) at 27 mph on flat / windless ground for approx 8 minutes.
> - ride within 12 inches of riders on all sides, at a sub-threshold pace at 25 mph
> ...


plenty of videos of cat 5 races by now. 

2011 Early Bird Criterium U30 Cat 5 - YouTube


----------



## scottzj (Oct 4, 2010)

Cat5 races have some pretty knarly speeds, at least around here. So it is vital to be able to maintain a good speed for a lengthy amount of time. As stated, ride with a race team on training rides and be able to touch elbows without freaking out. You need to be able to keep a good line while pounding some serious speeds and surges.


----------



## Lick Skillet (Aug 21, 2011)

bag any crit racing and stick to road races first


----------



## ZoSoSwiM (Mar 7, 2008)

Looking at results for some races the Cat5 groups are actually faster than the Cat 4's and 3's. However the distance is decreased so people go crazy in the shorter events. 

As mentioned already but being comfy in a group is the most important. Don't turn a Cat5 race into a Crash5 race. :-D


----------



## PMC (Jan 29, 2004)

Going fast in a race isn't hard, just don't be in front. Sitting on wheels at 27 or whatever doesn't take a ton of energy if you're out of the wind.

Back when I started racing as a 5, all but probably 10 minutes of the race was what felt like noodling around even if it was at 25 mph. As long as you can go with the surges you'll be fine. If you can't you'll learn how much it blows to chase a group when you're doing 100% of the work.

As others have said, find a good competitive group ride, do that and go from there. Chances are half of them will be racers and half of that group will be willing to talk your ear off about the local racing scene.


----------



## cxwrench (Nov 9, 2004)

at this point don't worry about any specific speeds or anything. find a group to ride with, and practice your skills. i have mentored at the northern california early bird crit series for years, and lots of riders will get dropped the first week. most of them stay in the second week, and by the third and fourth week they're moving around the pack and having a great time. it's all about getting used to riding close and knowing what to do. if your area has an early season mentoring series, DO IT.


----------



## nightfend (Mar 15, 2009)

iheartbenben said:


> but highly recommended.


This is stupid. You'd need to average about 420+ watts for 8 minutes to maintain 27mph on a road bike without any aero gear. While this is no Olympian feat, it is far above many cat 5 racers. That power number is closer to what a Cat 2/3 would put out.

Or are you a triathlete and are assuming the guy will go out with aerobars and deep carbon wheels to achieve this speed?


----------



## BostonG (Apr 13, 2010)

I’m planning on doing a few Cat5 races this next season too – hoping not to get dropped too often but I gotta put my anxiety to look foolish aside and get out there. 

Fast group rides seems to be where it’s at for preparing and gauging performance. But there are fast group rides of jumbled people and then there are fast group rides that are for training – the training rides are the ones that help the most. Just look on the google for training rides that a racing club or university team leads/sponsors. You should be able to find some that welcome people on their rides (as long as you can be safe).

If you haven’t done one and you are a reasonably OK recreational rider (that can suck a wheel safely) this is what will happen (speaking form experience here) – You will start out at the back so as to get a sense of the group and not interfere too much. You will be fairly protected from the wind and won’t have trouble keeping up while the group warms up for 10 minutes or so. The pace will pick up slightly and you will begin to feel exhilarated that you are keeping up. You look down and see that you are rolling along at around 24mph and to top it off, you aren’t breathing heavy! After another 10 minutes or so the pace will gradually pick up a couple miles per hr so you’re at about 26 and working for it – feeling the pressure to keep up now but still able to hold on. Then, one of two things will happen:

1)	The group will hit some rolling terrain and will either maintain or increase the pace over the rollers – you will likely get dropped.
2)	The terrain remains flat and the group suddenly kicks up the pace for a few minutes before returning to their “civil” pace of 25mph – you will likely get dropped.

Make sure to either know the route, have a queue sheet, or soft pedal until the medium fast group catches up with you. Next time you go out with the fast group you’ll have a better sense of what will happen on the ride (how long is the warm up, where the surges usually come, etc.) so you can be better prepared and last longer. I did that a few times at the end of last season and can easily say that I experienced the most performance gains (both physical and mental) in that short period than I would ever come close to on any rec rides. 

When us rec riders are defining our ability to race we are quickly humbled by how strong these guys are, how amazing it is that they can maintain speed over terrain changes, and how quickly they recover from surges. It’s all relative I guess so what’s funny is that they don’t see it themselves. Kind of like when you tell someone who doesn’t ride that you rode 40+ miles that morning and they get a brain freeze because that’s incomprehensible to them; the speed and power with racing is hard for a rec rider to understand. If you get pounded on a fast training ride, don’t let it stop you.


----------



## Creakyknees (Sep 21, 2003)

Ok, ok, I was a bit tongue in cheek with the 27mph thing. 

Just wanted the OP to know that, noodling along by yourself at 18mph won't cut it.

So, assuming you've done your fast group rides and can hang in... assuming you're comfy rubbing elbows without panicking, and know enough to not make stupid moves in the group... you are ready to give 'er a start.

In a criterium, first-time racers often get dropped at the start line. I recommend developing the consistency to always hit your pedal first time, clip in (without looking down... eyes front!) and accelerate to racing speed at max sprint power.


----------



## MTBer4life (Dec 9, 2008)

The best thing you can do to get started is buy Joe Friels The Cyclist training bible. Alot of good infor on the question you asked.

Beyonf that the thing about Cat 5 racing is that you have a huge range of folks racing from people who ride maybe 1-2 times a week up to folks that are training 15 hours a week. Go race youll probably get dropped but everyone does.


----------



## bmxhacksaw (Mar 26, 2008)

One thing to remember is that a Cat 5 or 4 class in one area could be markedly different in another. We don't have a lot of racing around here so it took me two years to get the 10 races I needed to upgrade from Cat 5 to 4. That means that you have a pack of guys that have two years worth of training/fitness under their belt as opposed to the noob that's just getting started. Then in the Cat 4 class you never get enough races/points in to move up so you got lots of guys that go super fast but can never upgrade. I won a race three years ago that was a Citizen's Class race and my winning time was 2:04 for a 52 mile race. That's (a little ) over 25mph for 50 miles in a citizens class. Around here we spray testosterone all over the place but don't get many chances to race so you get stacked classes.


----------



## foto (Feb 7, 2005)

bmxhacksaw said:


> One thing to remember is that a Cat 5 or 4 class in one area could be markedly different in another. We don't have a lot of racing around here so it took me two years to get the 10 races I needed to upgrade from Cat 5 to 4. That means that you have a pack of guys that have two years worth of training/fitness under their belt as opposed to the noob that's just getting started. Then in the Cat 4 class you never get enough races/points in to move up so you got lots of guys that go super fast but can never upgrade. I won a race three years ago that was a Citizen's Class race and my winning time was 2:04 for a 52 mile race. That's (a little ) over 25mph for 50 miles in a citizens class. *Around here we spray testosterone all over the place* but don't get many chances to race so you get stacked classes.


Oh that is so nasty.


----------



## spade2you (May 12, 2009)

nightfend said:


> This is stupid. You'd need to average about 420+ watts for 8 minutes to maintain 27mph on a road bike without any aero gear. While this is no Olympian feat, it is far above many cat 5 racers. That power number is closer to what a Cat 2/3 would put out.
> 
> Or are you a triathlete and are assuming the guy will go out with aerobars and deep carbon wheels to achieve this speed?


Hell, I couldn't even find an area where I'm not affected by wind, so flat and windless isn't an option for me at all.


----------



## den bakker (Nov 13, 2004)

nightfend said:


> This is stupid. You'd need to average about 420+ watts for 8 minutes to maintain 27mph on a road bike without any aero gear. While this is no Olympian feat, it is far above many cat 5 racers. That power number is closer to what a Cat 2/3 would put out.
> 
> Or are you a triathlete and are assuming the guy will go out with aerobars and deep carbon wheels to achieve this speed?


judging from this thread quite a few have difficulties estimating speed and distance to nearest rider. Maybe it's the standard internet way of measuring speed. Pick the fastest part of the race, look down to see the speed and adopt that as the average.


----------



## nightfend (Mar 15, 2009)

I also think 8 minutes sounds short until you actually ride 8 minutes above your threshold. I've done 4 and 5 minute climbs in races that hurt so much I wanted to jab my eyes out. And the climbs seemed to take forever.


----------



## bmxhacksaw (Mar 26, 2008)

jerrycan42 said:


> Forget CAT5 and just do masters and work harder in your Group rides and fitness. MUCH safer.


I'm 50 and I get asked all the time why I don't race in the Masters class. My response - I'd rather take my chances against a super strong 20-something that doesn't know jack about racing and tactics than a devious old Master with years of fitness base that knows how to put a big hurt on me.


----------



## jerrycan42 (Aug 18, 2010)

Forget CAT5 and just do masters and work harder in your Group rides and fitness. MUCH safer.


----------



## jerrycan42 (Aug 18, 2010)

Well if you just want to ride in your comfort zone....


----------



## den bakker (Nov 13, 2004)

jerrycan42 said:


> Forget CAT5 and just do masters and work harder in your Group rides and fitness. MUCH safer.


30+ cat3/4 is probably the worst mayhem I have ever participated in. One crit had 3 (that's three) separate crashed on the first two laps. Some more occurred later in that race. Although that was exceptionally bad there was a general abundance of testosterone and lack of common sense in many of them. (I consider headbutting to be outside common sense in racing).
edited: this is not to say masters are less safe, just that it depends hugely from region to region and race to race.


----------



## spade2you (May 12, 2009)

jerrycan42 said:


> Forget CAT5 and just do masters and work harder in your Group rides and fitness. MUCH safer.


If pros crash, we'll never be immune to crashing.


----------



## krisdrum (Oct 29, 2007)

Can you even race Masters in most regions as a 5? At least where I am, Masters is 1-4 only. So as a 5, you have to do 10 races to get your upgrade before you can even consider the move to Masters.


----------



## ericm979 (Jun 26, 2005)

If it's open masters then 5s can race. If it's masters 1-3 or 1-4, no 5s. Here in NorCal we have a lot of races with seperate masters 1-3 and 4-5 for the 35s and 45s and sometimes even 55s.

5s fields are not that bad. Most people in there know that they don't know much and ride accordingly.


----------



## STS_PA (Jun 26, 2006)

You'll need to be comfortable riding in a tightly packed group at speed. If you can do solo rides >19 mph over rolling terrain, you have a good enough motor to hang. CAT 5 has very strong riders just starting along with weekend warriors and can get hairy.


----------



## Gripped (Nov 27, 2002)

Creakyknees said:


> You will need the ability to:
> - ride (alone) at 27 mph on flat / windless ground for approx 8 minutes.


I wish.


----------



## philbennett (Jan 20, 2012)

<Much of the above and, it still being early season, take advantage of whatever time you have to build as much base as you can.


----------



## philbennett (Jan 20, 2012)

Oh yeah, and that time thing - the Friel book is a must but also of course Carmichael's time-crunched cyclist... there is some overlapping info in them but it just serves to reinforce the important points. And I second what the earlier poster said about 48 hrs between interval sessions for us old guys.


----------



## Local Hero (Jul 8, 2010)

spinnertsaf said:


> I am 55 years old and want to race a cat 5 race this year. I need to know how many miles a week, and hours, and what consistant speed, do i need to give it a whirl. I have good equipment and a hell of a drive to do it. Please help!


I'd suggest you ride three or four times every week. As others have said, ride with a group and see if you can hang in. Exchange numbers with a few guys of slightly better ability and figure out times for other rides. 

Then just jump in the race and do it. Don't be afraid. You can actually *race* yourself into shape. It hurts but your fitness will go up very fast with the intensity of racing.


----------



## ellingferd (Mar 13, 2010)

Cat 5 races are a mess in terms of speed, rider ability, etc. They are typically really fast and you will see people trying to get off the front, not making it because the peloton is going too fast, get sucked back in, etc. In all seriousness you should either treat your first ten Cat 5 races as training (after ten you are upgraded to Cat 4) or race masters. Cat 5 is a mix of pot-bellied desk jockeys and guys who train 15 hours a week with a coach. You should expect a lot of erratic riding in terms of speed and bike handling, and a bunch of guys trying to ride as fast as possible. You will always, however be able to ride in the peloton with almost zero fitness. Stay in the middle and it is unlikely you will be dropped, even when the speedo says 27mph. Drafting in a paceline is one thing, the peloton is a whole other degree of easy. If you are thinking of Masters remember that those riders have typically been riding a long, long time and are very experienced (crashes less likely) but also very fit and very versed in tactics. Totally different game than a Cat 5 race. On a final note, if you do end up in a Cat 5 field my general rule for avoiding crashes was this: only participate in the sprint if I am in the front 5 to 6 people and I have a clear line, otherwise, let the jokers sprint it out and crash. One race I was just a little too back for my comfort when the sprint started and I backed off only to watch about ten guys go down almost all at once. I steered around and took 4th or something. I was at another race where the Cat 5 field was split and the winner of the B race was near the back during the sprint (like 20 or 25 back) and won. This guy was probably pushing 250 and his legs were nearly hitting his gut. To top it off he totally did the Shooter McGavin finger gun at the finish line. Classic.


----------



## krisdrum (Oct 29, 2007)

ellingferd said:


> Cat 5 races are a mess in terms of speed, rider ability, etc. They are typically really fast and you will see people trying to get off the front, not making it because the peloton is going too fast, get sucked back in, etc. In all seriousness you should either treat your first ten Cat 5 races as training (after ten you are upgraded to Cat 4) or race masters. Cat 5 is a mix of pot-bellied desk jockeys and guys who train 15 hours a week with a coach. You should expect a lot of erratic riding in terms of speed and bike handling, and a bunch of guys trying to ride as fast as possible. You will always, however be able to ride in the peloton with almost zero fitness. Stay in the middle and it is unlikely you will be dropped, even when the speedo says 27mph. Drafting in a paceline is one thing, the peloton is a whole other degree of easy. If you are thinking of Masters remember that those riders have typically been riding a long, long time and are very experienced (crashes less likely) but also very fit and very versed in tactics. Totally different game than a Cat 5 race. On a final note, if you do end up in a Cat 5 field my general rule for avoiding crashes was this: only participate in the sprint if I am in the front 5 to 6 people and I have a clear line, otherwise, let the jokers sprint it out and crash. One race I was just a little too back for my comfort when the sprint started and I backed off only to watch about ten guys go down almost all at once. I steered around and took 4th or something. I was at another race where the Cat 5 field was split and the winner of the B race was near the back during the sprint (like 20 or 25 back) and won. This guy was probably pushing 250 and his legs were nearly hitting his gut. To top it off he totally did the Shooter McGavin finger gun at the finish line. Classic.


Just minor correction for clarity.

After 10 Cat 5 races you are eligible to upgrade, but it is not an automatic upgrade. You need to apply to upgrade to Cat 4/Masters. No one is going to make you a Cat 4 after 10 races, besides yourself.


----------



## Poncharelli (May 7, 2006)

jerrycan42 said:


> Forget CAT5 and just do masters and work harder in your Group rides and fitness. MUCH safer.


Yup. Round here we have a Master 4/5 group that would be perfect for ya. They only have like one crash a year. Did it for a couple of seasons and it's pretty solid-safe riding.


----------



## jerrycan42 (Aug 18, 2010)

Yep. Guys with Mortgages, Kids and a Wife are a lot less likely to lay it out, even if you ignore the extra factors of experience etc.


----------



## Undecided (Apr 2, 2007)

Some races have hills in them, you know? They have a way of undermining the certainty that one will be able to ride easily in the group.


----------



## 55x11 (Apr 24, 2006)

nightfend said:


> This is stupid. You'd need to average about 420+ watts for 8 minutes to maintain 27mph on a road bike without any aero gear. While this is no Olympian feat, it is far above many cat 5 racers. That power number is closer to what a Cat 2/3 would put out.
> 
> Or are you a triathlete and are assuming the guy will go out with aerobars and deep carbon wheels to achieve this speed?


exactly. 27 mph for 8 minutes alone on the flat road using road (non-TT) bike is more cat 2/3 territory. Even on TT bike it is not so easy - definitely not pre-requisite for cat 5 racers.


----------



## chase196126 (Jan 4, 2008)

55x11 said:


> exactly. 27 mph for 8 minutes alone on the flat road using road (non-TT) bike is more cat 2/3 territory. Even on TT bike it is not so easy - definitely not pre-requisite for cat 5 racers.



Going 27 mph on flat ground will not require 420 watts, unless you are extremely large. Its closer to 330-350 for a 150 pound, 5' 10'' guy. Big difference between those two outputs. 420 watts for 8 minutes is something many cat 1 riders cannot do.


----------



## iheartbenben (Mar 18, 2011)

nightfend said:


> This is stupid. You'd need to average about 420+ watts for 8 minutes to maintain 27mph on a road bike without any aero gear. While this is no Olympian feat, it is far above many cat 5 racers. That power number is closer to what a Cat 2/3 would put out.
> 
> Or are you a triathlete and are assuming the guy will go out with aerobars and deep carbon wheels to achieve this speed?


Well, if you could come close to that, you would break away from the Cat 5 pack and avoid injury...highly recommended.


----------



## dougclaysmith (Oct 17, 2009)

Check it out. 

Cat 5 race here in Florida last weekend. 

Deleon Springs Cat 5 Road Race Crash - YouTube


Be careful out there.


----------



## Travis (Oct 14, 2005)

must not be a yellow line rule in FL?


----------



## dougclaysmith (Oct 17, 2009)

Travis said:


> must not be a yellow line rule in FL?


There is, but you still have the usual number of A-holes that like to try and cheat whenever they can. 

I've seen guys move from the rear alway the way to the front when the official on his motorcycle is up near the front and not looking.


----------



## Gatorback (Jul 11, 2009)

dougclaysmith said:


> There is, but you still have the usual number of A-holes that like to try and cheat whenever they can.
> 
> I've seen guys move from the rear alway the way to the front when the official on his motorcycle is up near the front and not looking.


I live in Florida and have been thinking about doing some road racing... ...and had looked up that Deland race. Glad I did not go. 

Some other posters mentioned a "mentoring" program for new racers. We need something along those lines here. I'd love to race on the road, have raced the mountain bike many times, and do quite well in group hammer fests with Cat 2/3 riders. I would probably move up the ranks to Cat 3 without too much difficulty.

But I just don't want to risk 10 races in a Cat 5 field full of a-holes and egg heads doing stupid stuff making close quarters riding at speed more risky than it is in the first place. I've got a wife, kids, a career, employees who depend on me for their living. It doesn't make sense to get out there with unsafe riders. 

USA Cycling ought to look for a better way to train new racers than throwing everyone into Cat 5 group and saying if you survive 10 races, we will move you up. A mentoring program would be better. Drill it into everyone's head that if you do stupid things, you are not welcome. If you can't maintain your line in group, you are not ready to race. It would not be easy to implement such a program, but they ought to try to improve the sport.


----------



## Gatorback (Jul 11, 2009)

I remember one local rider who was young, in college, new to the bike, started racing and wanted an upgrade quickly. He is a great endurance athlete, a strong high school cross country runner, and was gun ho to move up the ranks. He started racing and was wanting a quicker upgrade. He kept posting pictures on Facebook... ...of all his road rash, and talking about how he was asking for quicker upgrades because of his top 5 finishes.

All I could think of was that he didn't understand. The race promoters, who apparently had some authority to upgrade him quicker, did not care whether he won or got top 5. Get to the finish of some races without need road rash or chainring gouges across your leg. Safe riding is supposed to be what gets you out of Cat 5, not great results. The problem is that finishing 10 races does not mean you are a safe rider. You may have learned nothing riding with a bunch of other unsafe riders. 

A program where everyone understands that would be beneficial.


----------



## Sonomasnap (Feb 10, 2010)

Scanned the responses but might have missed some so sorry if I am saying what has already been said.

Just jump in a Cat5 race and find out if you are able to hang. If are can't just train and get in the next race and the next. Cat5 races are really to learn how to ride in a peloton and gain a little race experience. Get your 10 races in and by the time you do you will be fit and ready to get the hell out of Cat5. Then you can try masters which by the way is longer, faster and safer.

BTW, I am 52 and Cat3. This year will be my 4th season. The races and racers might get older but they also get faster. You are never too old to start and improve.

Finally I was looking on USA Cycling the other day as they were listing national champs in different age ranges. They actually have an 80+ category and some dude from Evergreen Colorado won it. Just told my wife I will be racing for the next 30 years.

Have fun.


----------



## edwin headwind (Aug 23, 2004)

dougclaysmith said:


> check it out.
> 
> Cat 5 race here in florida last weekend.
> 
> ...


brutal!


----------



## nightfend (Mar 15, 2009)

dougclaysmith said:


> There is, but you still have the usual number of A-holes that like to try and cheat whenever they can.
> 
> I've seen guys move from the rear alway the way to the front when the official on his motorcycle is up near the front and not looking.


Most races allow you to cross the yellow line for the finishing sprint. Also, in almost every race, there are people moving in and out over the yellow line. Often times they get away with it, but if the Moto-ref catches you, it is back to the very back of the group.


----------

