# What did Chris Horner just say???



## Italophile (Jun 11, 2004)

So Chris Horner is unhappy that he didn't make the Astana Tour squad. OK, I dig that. But he lays the blame on Alberto Contador for intra-team politics? His opinion is that Alberto should have no riders of his choice at all, that everybody should be there for Lance alone? That's just crazy. That just shows how the best rider on that team has been treated all along, and serves to justify Contador's paranoia.

Moreover, his claim that Lance or Klöden would have been second overall after the famous Stage 17 dropping of Klöden and the win of Fränk Schleck assumes that neither of the Schlecks would have attacked, either, that they would have been happy to just ride along and accept their fate at the hands of Astana. Cattle Duty! We all know that Alberto's tactical errors hurt, and he apologized for that one, but I think that is a major stretch. Neither Lance nor Klodi was a match for Andy, and that was obvious.

I like Horner, or used to, and I will cut him some slack since the interview was the very day of Stage 17, but Jeezzuhs.  

Politics, indeed, but not only Alberto's, and not Alberto's first.

http://www.ktvz.com/global/video/popup/pop_playerLaunch.asp?vt1=v&clipFormat=flv&clipId1=3982682&at1=Sport&h1=Bend cyclist Chris Horner talks with NewsChannel 21 (7/23)


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## alexb618 (Aug 24, 2006)

i used to like chris horner


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## Circlip (Jul 26, 2005)

This entire saga is like the gift that keeps on giving. Love this one below from Paolo Savoldelli;

*"Paolo Savoldelli has revealed that Johan Bruyneel’s arrival at Astana was enough to prompt him to leave"*

http://www.cyclingweekly.co.uk/news/latest/348103/savoldelli-i-left-astana-because-of-bruyneel.html


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## Italophile (Jun 11, 2004)

Circlip said:


> This entire saga is like the gift that keeps on giving. Love this one below from Paolo Savoldelli;
> 
> *"Paolo Savoldelli has revealed that Johan Bruyneel’s arrival at Astana was enough to prompt him to leave"*
> 
> http://www.cyclingweekly.co.uk/news/latest/348103/savoldelli-i-left-astana-because-of-bruyneel.html


That is very interesting. I always thought they served Paolo ill by placing George Hincapie in the team leadership for the Tour in 2006 and rode for him to oblivion while Savoldelli was the better man and higher on GC, if I remember right, until he was injured riding to the hotel on his bike after one stage.

In light of what they did to Alberto Contador this year, I have a new idea of why Savoldelli was riding his bike back to the hotel!  

I am sure that wasn't why, but....


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## twiggy (Mar 23, 2004)

yeah, Sour grapes all around.... I used to respect Horner too, but through this entire interview he's full of sh*t.


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## pretender (Sep 18, 2007)

When Contador attacked on stage 17, he was acting like Astana's top dog, and apparently that bugged a lot of people.


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## slamy (Mar 15, 2004)

I don't understand what you people are crying about, I think what he said was spot on. He said some negative things about AC but also gave him credit. I really didn't hear any whining. I actually enjoyed listening to him. Unlike you experts, CH has a lot of racing experience, and I think he explained the team tactics perfectly.


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## Jesse D Smith (Jun 11, 2005)

Circlip said:


> This entire saga is like the gift that keeps on giving. Love this one below from Paolo Savoldelli;
> 
> *"Paolo Savoldelli has revealed that Johan Bruyneel’s arrival at Astana was enough to prompt him to leave"*
> 
> http://www.cyclingweekly.co.uk/news/latest/348103/savoldelli-i-left-astana-because-of-bruyneel.html


Yeah, having a man direct you to a Giro pink jersey certainly leaves a bad taste in the mouth. I suppose it was the evil Darth Bruyneel who prevented Paolo from any success after their parting of ways.


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## Jesse D Smith (Jun 11, 2005)

slamy said:


> I don't understand what you people are crying about, I think what he said was spot on. He said some negative things about AC but also gave him credit. I really didn't hear any whining. I actually enjoyed listening to him. Unlike you experts, CH has a lot of racing experience, and I think he explained the team tactics perfectly.


Why pass up the chance to completely reverse your opinion of a veteran rider base on one interview? For fans like these, every rider is one quote away from losing their respect.


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## Circlip (Jul 26, 2005)

Jesse D Smith said:


> Yeah, having a man direct you to a Giro pink jersey certainly leaves a bad taste in the mouth.


No more improbable than a DS who has sour grapes toward a rider who brought him a yellow jersy.


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## Mdeth1313 (Nov 1, 2001)

Ah, horner's just making sure he's got a job next year, might as well jump on the bandwagon. 

One things for sure, next year's tour should be really interesting, just watching all the chips fall now.

Only thing I'm sure of is I won't be pulling for LA, the whole thing sucked from the day he announced he was coming back-- Contador should have been #1 all along.


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## Comer (Jan 13, 2009)

Horner has always spoken his mind, that's what makes him more interesting than most of the others.


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## California L33 (Jan 20, 2006)

Are you kidding? Horner just showed he's a team player. If you're on the team, you have to ask yourself what would be best for the team- Lance's 8th, or Alberto's 2nd. Even AC should have been able to figure that one out and swallowed his pride or asked for out.


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## oneslowmofo (Feb 29, 2004)

slamy said:


> I don't understand what you people are crying about, I think what he said was spot on. He said some negative things about AC but also gave him credit. I really didn't hear any whining. I actually enjoyed listening to him. Unlike you experts, CH has a lot of racing experience, and I think he explained the team tactics perfectly.


Agreed. CH has always spoken his mind. Maybe a bit of bad form being this frank during the tour and with a number of races left in the season. But he obviously is much closer to the situation. I still respect his point of view.

Next up!


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## dmar836 (Nov 17, 2007)

What did he say that wasn't obvious as it was going down? This is exactly the way it was from what I saw happen. AC is lucky that in his first attack he didn't pull more guys with him and up into GC contention.............. over the top of those right there helping him. I thought it looks pretty immature myself.


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## FondriestFan (May 19, 2005)

Jesse D Smith said:


> Yeah, having a man direct you to a Giro pink jersey certainly leaves a bad taste in the mouth. I suppose it was the evil Darth Bruyneel who prevented Paolo from any success after their parting of ways.


Sean Yates was the director at the Giro, I believe, not Bruyneel.


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## Jesse D Smith (Jun 11, 2005)

*Good call*



FondriestFan said:


> Sean Yates was the director at the Giro, I believe, not Bruyneel.


I totally overlooked that. But I think we have to keep in mind rider conflicts with directors is common, and Bruyneel and Lance have riders like Popo, Rubiera and others who don't seem to have a problem. I have no doubt Johan and Lance are control freaks, but it contributes far more to their success.


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## doug.higgins (Apr 20, 2009)

So for you AC fans, do you feel Horner wasn't good enough to make the tdf squad?

I think I would be upset if i thought (or could prove) my performance was superior to others on the team and didn't make it. 

In terms of AC, it just seems he's able and willing to take on the advantages of having a power house team led by JB, but when it comes to JB trying to spread out liability and risk among other astana podium finishers, it became very clear that AC was in this for himself. Regardless of spreading risk among other riders, AC made himself more vulnerable. 

At the end of the day, winning the tour has a element of luck that all crashes, mechanical issues, and health problems will be avoided, which has nothing to do with talent, fitness, rider superiority (which AC clearly has). What if AC would have crashed out? Regardless of the egotistical mindset of JB wanting to sweep the podium, one would think that it's really good to have contingencies and insurance policies if you have the talent and firepower. Astana had that, but AC's actions show that he didn't have a care in the world about his team. 

Next year will be fantastic to see the ultimate rider versus the ultimate team and hopefully Chris Horner is back on the ultimate team.


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## FondriestFan (May 19, 2005)

doug.higgins said:


> So for you AC fans, do you feel Horner wasn't good enough to make the tdf squad?
> 
> I think I would be upset if i thought (or could prove) my performance was superior to others on the team and didn't make it.
> 
> ...


You wasted your first post on that factually-challenged nonsense?


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## jldickerson3 (Mar 9, 2006)

CaliforniaL33 wrote: "If you're on the team, you have to ask yourself what would be best for the team- Lance's 8th, or Alberto's 2nd. Even AC should have been able to figure that one out and swallowed his pride or asked for out."

AC did ask for out as soon as LA was coming back. Bruyneel assured AC that he was the #1 rider and leader for the tour. AC was ready to bolt, but Bruyneel didn't want to see if go. It was after that that LA started to assert himself as defacto leader without any proof his body could match his mouth. 

As much as it would be great to believe that LA was shoo-in for his eighth, there were big question marks about his ability to perform, which proved well-founded, even though he raced a pretty freakin' awesome race. AC was clearly the proven rider, with the most clear GC path, considering he's won everyone he's entered over the past three years.

Everybody says cycling is a business, but I can assure you if it were, and LA try to pull the stuff he's pulled with AC, with AC being the designated leader, LA would get fired or demoted in a heartbeat. 

When people ascends to the top spot in the Corporate world they fire, demote, or banish their rivals and bring on the people they know and trust. And if some old retired former corporate exec comes back to be a part of the company, and openly questions your authority, ability to handle the job, and says he is better than you are, he would get kicked right out on his keister. Insubordination would get anybody kicked out, and invited to start their own company. Even if the Board of Directors wouldn't allow you to fire him, you would be able to put him so far in Siberia he would quit the company, and again have plenty of opportunity to start his own company, since he believes he's so good.

Right now, LA is essentially starting his own firm, but the top spot should not have been allowed to get confused before or during the race.


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## pdh777 (Oct 7, 2005)

SIde note - I thought Horner was off the tour team due to injuries, bringing his ability to perform for 3 weeks in question.


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## Ken (Feb 7, 2004)

doug.higgins said:


> So for you AC fans, do you feel Horner wasn't good enough to make the tdf squad?


As I remember CH was left off the squad because their main sponsor wanted a Kazakh rider on the team.


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## pacificaslim (Sep 10, 2008)

As I remember, CH was left off the team because Contador wanted at least one rider on the team that would speak to him.


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## Sasquatch (Feb 3, 2004)

Horner, Levi, Lance. Common denominator: Talk smack but can't take it when AC dishes it out.


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## Francis Cebedo (Aug 1, 2001)

Everybody's stock is going down. Whining fools!

fc


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## Filo1234 (Jul 28, 2009)

So Lance would have been in Yellow if CH was on the team because he would have been the .22 second difference?? I seem to remember Lance coasting over the line during the team time trial and he was the fifth rider. The fifth rider that sets the time! Had he sprinted he would have been in yellow. CH was just saying what he was told to say, he doesn't know everything that went on because he wasn't on the bus.


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## moabbiker (Sep 11, 2002)

Horner's burned a lot of bridges flapping off too much. Remember all the negative words he yapped about Armstrong before. The whole Olympics snubbing thing, and now this. I don't think many like the guy.


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## Iamspanish (Jul 30, 2009)

Ken said:


> As I remember CH was left off the squad because their main sponsor wanted a Kazakh rider on the team.


What the press reported over here in Spain is that Contador wanted Benjamin Noval in the team while LA wanted CH. Looks like by then Johan was more neutral so he invited Gregory Rast.


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## albert owen (Jul 7, 2008)

All this stuff makes Contador's performance even more impressive. It shows how isolated he was in Astana by LA, JB and their poodles.


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## philippec (Jun 16, 2002)

California L33 said:


> Are you kidding? Horner just showed he's a team player. If you're on the team, you have to ask yourself what would be best for the team- Lance's 8th, or Alberto's 2nd. Even AC should have been able to figure that one out and swallowed his pride or asked for out.


OMFG -- Wow.... just wow.....

In what alternative universe did LA have a chance of beating AC in this year's tour????!!!

In what whacked dark-side universe is it better for LA to get 3rd than for AC to win???!!!

Even if both riders were vying for the top podium spot, in what way is it better for the team to have a weaker rider win over a stronger rider???!!!! 

The best for the team is for the team *LEADER* to win the race -- which is exactly what happened despite whatever JB, CH and LA are trying to spin out now. In fact, you may even question the unofficial JB script (e.g. hoping that the weaker super-domestique -- LA --ride into the podium on the third week rather than fully supporting the stronger leader -- AC) as being counter to the Team and the Sponsor's best interest!

AC showed he had the tactical cojones to flip that script presto and the result is that Astana won instead of having to settle only for a second-runner up spot.


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## gegarrenton (Jul 10, 2009)

Jesse D Smith said:


> Why pass up the chance to completely reverse your opinion of a veteran rider base on one interview? For fans like these, every rider is one quote away from losing their respect.


Which is about the most retarded thing ever. This place is like a combination of junior high and 'Days of our Lives' when it comes to feigning outrage.


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## bigmig19 (Jun 27, 2008)

Horner has more right to ***** than anyone. The guy is hard as nails and gets results in criteriums, flat roads and mountains. He _was_ snubbed by the Olympics. And greg rast, Borat, and pauhlino should shine his shoes.


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## nate (Jun 20, 2004)

Jesse D Smith said:


> Yeah, having a man direct you to a Giro pink jersey certainly leaves a bad taste in the mouth. I suppose it was the evil Darth Bruyneel who prevented Paolo from any success after their parting of ways.


If he really didn't get the prize money that was agreed upon for helping Armstrong win, he should be mad and would seem to have plenty of reason to call Bruyneel a liar.


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## SlowBikeRacer (Nov 7, 2005)

Shame on Alberto for attacking and dropping the old farts...
Lance only got third because of the 40 seconds gained on the early windy stage. Would have been 5th without those seconds. Also was 15th in the final TT. He has a long way to go to be champ next year against Alberto and Andy.


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## Pablo (Jul 7, 2004)

It think we can all agree Alberto was a real jerk for thinking he was the leader of a team for which he won all three grand tours in 15 months.


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## Pablo (Jul 7, 2004)

SlowBikeRacer said:


> Shame on Alberto for attacking and dropping the old farts...
> Lance only got third because of the 40 seconds gained on the early windy stage. Would have been 5th without those seconds. Also was 15th in the final TT. He has a long way to go to be champ next year against Alberto and Andy.


Why do you hate America?


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## FondriestFan (May 19, 2005)

Of course, Horner would have been in the Tour had Lance not invited himself on Astana.


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## OES (Jan 23, 2002)

gegarrenton said:


> Which is about the most retarded thing ever. This place is like a combination of junior high and 'Days of our Lives' when it comes to feigning outrage.


And I ain't buyin' NO Garmin products, that's for DAMN sure.


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## danl1 (Jul 23, 2005)

philippec said:


> OMFG -- Wow.... just wow.....
> 
> In what alternative universe did LA have a chance of beating AC in this year's tour????!!!
> 
> ...


The team's Lead rider won... Not the team leader. Understand the difference, and this silly interweb battle goes away.

AC showed himself to be tactically ill-minded. Played the way JB and LA wanted him to, he still would have won yellow, but would have had a much safer in-race tactical position, and (as gravy) would have likely have kept his teammates up in GC, possibly even close enough to sweep the podium. Yes, the Schleks may have attacked, but with 3-4 Astana jerseys around instead of just one, it is unlikely that anyhing would have come of it. All AC's 'cojones' move did was strip him of help. As things played out, he one mostly by being lucky enough that that he happened not to need the help. Yes, he's a terrifically strong rider, but in that situation, one little *anything* could have been disasterous. 

I'll give AC the benefit of the doubt and assume it was just the stupid mistake he says it was.


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## Dwayne Barry (Feb 16, 2003)

danl1 said:


> The team's Lead rider won... Not the team leader. Understand the difference, and this silly interweb battle goes away.
> 
> AC showed himself to be tactically ill-minded. Played the way JB and LA wanted him to, he still would have won yellow, but would have had a much safer in-race tactical position, and (as gravy) would have likely have kept his teammates up in GC, possibly even close enough to sweep the podium. Yes, the Schleks may have attacked, but with 3-4 Astana jerseys around instead of just one, it is unlikely that anyhing would have come of it. All AC's 'cojones' move did was strip him of help. As things played out, he one mostly by being lucky enough that that he happened not to need the help. Yes, he's a terrifically strong rider, but in that situation, one little *anything* could have been disasterous.
> 
> I'll give AC the benefit of the doubt and assume it was just the stupid mistake he says it was.


You don't know what you're talking about. At best there would have been 2 Astana riders around instead of one. The Schleck/Astana duo were approaching a 2 minute advantage and the top of the climb when Contador attacked. Armstrong and any other Astana riders were long out of the picture. 

You've got to be kidding, he won mostly by being "lucky"?

And there was no possibility of a sweep because no other Astana rider was anywhere near the level of A. Schleck.


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## rensho (Aug 5, 2003)

California L33 said:


> Are you kidding? Horner just showed he's a team player. If you're on the team, you have to ask yourself what would be best for the team- Lance's 8th, or Alberto's 2nd. Even AC should have been able to figure that one out and swallowed his pride or asked for out.


Really? So then the TdF would have ended with A. Schleck winning, Conti 2nd, Lance 3rd. Or maybe we do LA 2nd and Conti 3rd. That'd be better for the team? Really?


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## rensho (Aug 5, 2003)

Pablo said:


> It think we can all agree Alberto was a real jerk for thinking he was the leader of a team for which he won all three grand tours in 15 months.


He's clearly retarded, an ass, and totally immature. He should be banned. The LA foundation should start a special smear campaign and let no leaf unturned to make sure that AC is implicated in some type of doping scandal.


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## Dwayne Barry (Feb 16, 2003)

rensho said:


> He's clearly retarded, an ass, and totally immature. He should be banned. The LA foundation should start a special smear campaign and let no leaf unturned to make sure that AC is implicated in some type of doping scandal.


Well, we all know what tends to happen to big riders who leave the Bruyneel fold 

Maybe it's time for another donation from Armstrong to the UCI?


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## bahueh (May 11, 2004)

*y'all are worse..*



rensho said:


> Really? So then the TdF would have ended with A. Schleck winning, Conti 2nd, Lance 3rd. Or maybe we do LA 2nd and Conti 3rd. That'd be better for the team? Really?


than a maligned teen aged girl cheerleader squad.....OMG, like really?!! 

the sewing circle thing is getting a little old.


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## powerste (May 25, 2006)

danl1 said:


> As things played out, he one mostly by being lucky enough that that he happened not to need the help. Yes, he's a terrifically strong rider, but in that situation, one little *anything* could have been disasterous.
> 
> I'll give AC the benefit of the doubt and assume it was just the stupid mistake he says it was.


News flash - actually he *won* the Tour because he was by far the *one* strongest rider in the Tour - not the mostly lucky *one*. No *one* could climb like him and he *won* the long ITT by 1:44 and 1:29 respectively over the 2nd and 3rd place podium finishers. On 17, he took a risk to see if he could put time into the the likely #2 finisher. He couldn't, so he backed off and followed wheels - and saved enough energy to win the ITT the next day. That risk had plenty of downside, and in hindsight it's easy to call it out as a mistake (which as you point out he did BTW). But to argue that he only *won* the entire TdF because he got lucky on 17 by not having a flat/mechanical/crash in the last few Km of the final climb and its subsequent descent (which he hardly bombed BTW) is pure crap. He *won* the TdF because for three weeks he consistently put in the best all-around performance by a mile.

BTW If everyone raced as though the next mechanical was right around the corner, this sport would be a damn lot more boring than it is!


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## terzo rene (Mar 23, 2002)

Horner left such an impression in his first go around in the Euro pro ranks it took him ages to find a team to give him another shot and rescue him from oblivion on the US crit circuit. Kissing LA's butt seems to indicate he's at least learned something about securing employment.

LA thought he could win so he insisted that leadership had to be earned on the road. He played his hand when he went with the break and took 22 seconds from AC. He then found out a pair doesn't beat a full house. Expecting the guy whom he actively worked against to do anything to help him out is ridiculous.

To be consistent I guess all you defenders go around giving the people that stab you in the back a leg up at work too?


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## Jesse D Smith (Jun 11, 2005)

gegarrenton said:


> Which is about the most retarded thing ever. This place is like a combination of junior high and 'Days of our Lives' when it comes to feigning outrage.


Honestly, I think most posters haven't been closely following cycling for more than a few years, so their judgments naturally are of the same nature-knee-jerk.


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## Mdeth1313 (Nov 1, 2001)

Did this make it into any of the Contador/Armstrong soap opera threads here--

kind of does it for me (but I thought Contador should have been the guy all along)


http://www.steephill.tv/2009/entries/co ... onference/

It happened on Thursday, a few hours before the Annecy ITT. Contador came downstairs to the entrance of the Palace of Menthon, the luxurious Astana hotel. The Tour was in play. He looked right, then left. Nobody, nothing. No Astana cars or support staff. Cold sweat. A time check. Where are they? The hotel is several kilometers from the start. There he was, the leader of the Tour, in flip-flops, bag in hand and alone. He went to the hall looking for an answer: Armstrong had ordered the staff to go pick up his wife, kids and friends to the airport. 
Contador left his room last because he was the last one starting the ITT. Armstrong had managed to take away his means of transportation. The straw that broke the camel’s back. Steaming with anger. He phoned his brother Fran. He came to pick him up by car and took him to Annecy in his own vehicle. He left last and finished first. His best victory. In the ITT. In solitude. The same way he won his second tour. 

Contador’s toughest climb was not recorded in images. It was narrated by others. It was fought in the hotel and the bus: during one stage, Armstrong sat his guests at the very back of the bus, right in Contador’s usual seat. One more provocation. Armstrong to the luxury suite. Contador to sleep with Paulinho, the only ally. Same deal during the entire tour. Mouth shut, listening to Armstrong’s jabs: “It doesn’t take a Nobel prize to figure out what happens with side winds”. Contador didn’t reply in the hotel. He did on the road. He attacked in the first mountain finish in Arcalis. Without permission from Bruyneel, Armstrong’s DS. That night the Astana hotel was a funeral. Red eyes from the Texan (anger? crying? not sure). The first cyclist that stood up to him. And he did it in silence."


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## smartyiak (Sep 28, 2005)

*New Stories*

I think the best part of this thread is that the OP dug up a week old interview to keep the LA v. AC drama going. Perhaps someone else can post the story about AC being left at the hotel...I would just hate to see this "story" die.

-Smarty


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## Mdeth1313 (Nov 1, 2001)

smartyiak said:


> I think the best part of this thread is that the OP dug up a week old interview to keep the LA v. AC drama going. Perhaps someone else can post the story about AC being left at the hotel...I would just hate to see this "story" die.
> 
> -Smarty



:idea: kind of like michael jackson kicking the bucket, but for cyclists-- this aint goin away for sometime. Wait until next season when it starts all over again.


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## 32and3cross (Feb 28, 2005)

smartyiak said:


> I think the best part of this thread is that the OP dug up a week old interview to keep the LA v. AC drama going. Perhaps someone else can post the story about AC being left at the hotel...I would just hate to see this "story" die.
> 
> -Smarty


Me too as if it's true it's real news that should be brought to light in the US press, let me see if I can help with that.


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## California L33 (Jan 20, 2006)

terzo rene said:


> LA thought he could win so he insisted that leadership had to be earned on the road. He played his hand when he went with the break and took 22 seconds from AC. He then found out a pair doesn't beat a full house. Expecting the guy whom he actively worked against to do anything to help him out is ridiculous.
> 
> To be consistent I guess all you defenders go around giving the people that stab you in the back a leg up at work too?


Lance didn't go with any break. He knew they were about to turn into a crosswind and worked his butt to get to the front of the field so he could be prepared for an attack. The question isn't why did Lance read it correctly, it's why did AC, who had exactly the same information, decide to stay at the back of the peloton?


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## LostViking (Jul 18, 2008)

Like Chris H. - don't think we should read too much into one interview...esp. concerning a team disolving in front of our eyes (Astana) and reforming as another (Radio Shanty).
IMHO - LA was class-less in his treatment of Conti. I have no ill-will towards Chris, but I would hate to see LA's (and J.B.'s) poor sportsmanship rewarded with another Tour win. Hope Conti and Andy put on another great show next year. Thanks for the memories Lance.


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