# Torx T25 tool



## Got Time (Jan 23, 2009)

What is a good Torx T25 tool to use for Campagnolo components?

Currently I use an "L-key" but that doesn't seem the best,
e.g., when mounting the shifters the "long" side is too short
as it does not extend beyond the shifter body hence it can be
turned at most 180 deg at once.

I've looked into the following types (sorry if my terminology
is not correct -- it's based on some descriptions of those tools):

 screwdriver: that might not give me good leverage.
 T-handle: that looks fairly promising.
 combined T-Handle and L-key: the "T" has a Torx key on one side.
 "sliding" T-handle: the top is another Torx key which can be moved such that you have a "T" or an "L".
 "bit": the one I have doesn't fit far enough into a rear derailleur to engage.
 "long" L-key: there are probably version that are longer than the L-key which I have to avoid the problem mentioned above.

For 3. I found a toolset from Wiha which is supposedly high quality
(as well as "Nashbar T25 Torx Wrench " etc)
for 4. I found only "no name" manufacturers so I probably avoid that.

So which one do you use and why?
Any recommendations about manufacturers (e.g., use Wiha/Park Tools, avoid Craftsman/Nashbar, ...)?


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## tom_h (May 6, 2008)

I have huge collection of auto & general use tools, but for bikes what I use most often is:

1) Bondhus# 33025 T-handle, when I need a bit of leverage & don't need a specific torque value.

2) T25 bit with 1/4" square drive, so I can use it with torque wrench. The bit portion needs to be ~3 inch long to reach under brake hood. Mine happens to be a Snap-On from long ago, but there's other Mfrs, see below

3) T25 "insert bit" style, to use with a typical fixed-torque handle, eg like the Ritchey handles.

4) I rarely use L-key or screwdriver style. I keep an L-key in seat bag for roadside emergency repair but have never used it.

I probably use #1 and #2 the most in my home shop, and mainly bring #3 with me when I travel w/ bike. 

Note: Some T25 bits have a larger diameter, hexagonal shank for strength, and will not fit into the rear derailleur opening !

Good brands are Bondhus (but they don't make bits w/ square drive), Sunex, and SK Tools. Park Tool uses Bondhus for the bit end of their tools. Anything from Snap-On or Matco will be very good, but also very pricey.

I have a few misc Wiha tools in miniature sizes, they're OK for servicing electronic or computer stuff, but overall not too impressed. They seem to use softer steels, tolerances aren't as tight as Bondhus, and the Wiha seem to round-off too easy. Only good for very low torque applications, IMO.


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## mjc29 (Jun 29, 2013)

I have a set of torx t handle from Harbor freight that I use every day at work and have had no problems with them. Under $10 I think I got them for.

Sent from my XT1254 using Tapatalk


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## DaveG (Feb 4, 2004)

Got Time said:


> What is a good Torx T25 tool to use for Campagnolo components?
> 
> Currently I use an "L-key" but that doesn't seem the best,
> e.g., when mounting the shifters the "long" side is too short
> ...


Off on a tangent here but why did Campy switch to a T25 for the levers and RD when a metric hex bit worked just fine? Why does Campy always want to make us buy new tools?

Since a normal T25 bit doesn't work for the levers I picked up cheap screwdriver at Lowe's and I use a Vice Grip for extra leverage. If I find a long bit like tom mentioned I'll get that


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## Marc (Jan 23, 2005)

DaveG said:


> Off on a tangent here but why did Campy switch to a T25 for the levers and RD when a metric hex bit worked just fine? Why does Campy always want to make us buy new tools?
> 
> Since a normal T25 bit doesn't work for the levers I picked up cheap screwdriver at Lowe's and I use a Vice Grip for extra leverage. If I find a long bit like tom mentioned I'll get that



I'd guess because hexes like to round out. Especially at higher torque or at awkward angles, where it is difficult to get full purchase...like say brifters. And using not-alloy fasteners that are soft and like to round out costs more money to Campag.


That being said....there are LOTS of not-to-spec poorly made torx fasteners and bits out there that get trashed too.


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## tom_h (May 6, 2008)

Marc said:


> ....That being said....there are LOTS of not-to-spec poorly made torx fasteners and bits out there that get trashed too.


 Round-off a hard-to-find $15 bike fastener, and suddenly those Harbor Freight tools aren't such a "deal".
Don't get me wrong, I buy HF odds 'n ends occasionally, but for precision fit or higher quality, I look elsewhere.


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## tom_h (May 6, 2008)

DaveG said:


> ... Why does Campy always want to make us buy new tools?...


well, Torx drivers & bits aren't that unusual. Many electronic & computer equipments use Torx (albeit usually in smaller sizes). Also, most cars use Torx in a variety of locations (typically when a small head is required).

And as Marc noted, much less likely to round-out the fasteners, than hex socket screws.


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## DaveG (Feb 4, 2004)

tom_h said:


> well, Torx drivers & bits aren't that unusual. Many electronic & computer equipments use Torx (albeit usually in smaller sizes). Also, most cars use Torx in a variety of locations (typically when a small head is required).
> 
> And as Marc noted, much less likely to round-out the fasteners, than hex socket screws.


In my world bike components use hex sockets. Don't upset my world


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## tka (Jun 11, 2014)

I use T25 insert bits from McMaster. For the brake hoods and the rear derailleur bolt I find a 3 1/2" bit is plenty long and allows a torque wrench with a 1/4" socket on to tighten. It also works with Ritchey torque key style handles. There are also ball-end versions that work great when there isn't a straight shot at the fastener, but they are more likely to cam-out than a standard Torx. 

The bits are relatively cheap so I usually buy a bunch and toss them out when they show signs of wear. It's cheaper than ruining fasteners. Or marring up someone's precious new grouppo.


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## Marc (Jan 23, 2005)

DaveG said:


> In my world bike components use hex sockets. Don't upset my world


Allens and hex-heads are patented and produced by the Apex Tool Group...Which is owned by Mitt Romney's ex-company Bain Capital. You making lots of money for vulture capitalists.


Torx, meanwhile, is an ISO open standard. The Torx patent having expired.


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## tka (Jun 11, 2014)

Marc said:


> Allens and hex-heads are patented and produced by the Apex Tool Group...Which is owned by Mitt Romney's ex-company Bain Capital. You making lots of money for vulture capitalists.
> 
> 
> Torx, meanwhile, is an ISO open standard. The Torx patent having expired.


Not quite. Internal hex head fasteners have been around for over 100 years, and any patents on the have run out long ago. 

"Allen" is a registered trademark (not a patent) owned by Apex Tool Group for hex keys used on internal head fasteners. The generic name for internal hex-head fastener tools is "hex key."

Hex key inch sizes are typically covered by ANSI/ASME Standard B18.3-1998, while metric sizes are covered by ISO 2936:2001. Some of the ball end, screwholding ball end, and security features are still patented, however.

Where I work we have been switching to Torx fasteners primarily due to the smaller head on the fastener for the same torque vs. hex head (either internal or external.) This allows shrinking the fastener areas, reducing material usage, smaller products, and reduced weight. And sometimes even lower costs.


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## Got Time (Jan 23, 2009)

Thanks for the replies, esp. those with details about the tools you use and why.
For now I will buy a Bondhus# 33025 T-handle.

I'm not sure about the right T25 "bit" yet: if it is only ~70mm long then it wouldn't reach entirely "across" the shifter body and hence I couldn't really use my Parktools TW-1 torque wrench, so I'm inclined to buy something longer, e.g., 150mm, but so far I found only "no name" manufacturers, and I prefer to buy a quality tool to avoid possible damage to the (expensive) Campagnolo components.
If you have a reference for such a long T25 "bit" please let me know.


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## tka (Jun 11, 2014)

McMaster carries a 6" T25 insert bit but I find it too long. Other Torx bits I've purchased form McMaster where Wiha, but I couldn't find a brand name on these other than a "Z" inside a circle. I'm sure if you contact McMaster they will supply their vendor name, but I haven't seen any need to on these bits.

Here's a comparison of the 3 1/2" and 6" T25 bits in a 2015 Chorus lever.
View attachment 319363


The 3 1/2" bit has just enough length to clear the body of the lever.


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## DaveG (Feb 4, 2004)

tka, you know your tools. I dont install/remove levers often but being able to us a torque wrench is something I like. I probably will get one of these


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## tom_h (May 6, 2008)

Late to this thread! yes, use one of the "power tool" insert bits as described, along with a "_1/4 insert hex bit to 1/4 square drive_" adapter, such as this one:
https://www.amazon.com/dp/B004DYKIH4
and then you can use the T25 bit with any typical torque wrench.



tka said:


> McMaster carries a 6" T25 insert bit but I find it too long. Other Torx bits I've purchased form McMaster where Wiha, but I couldn't find a brand name on these other than a "Z" inside a circle. I'm sure if you contact McMaster they will supply their vendor name, but I haven't seen any need to on these bits.
> 
> Here's a comparison of the 3 1/2" and 6" T25 bits in a 2015 Chorus lever.
> View attachment 319363
> ...


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## tka (Jun 11, 2014)

tom_h said:


> Late to this thread! yes, use one of the "power tool" insert bits as described, along with a "_1/4 insert hex bit to 1/4 square drive_" adapter, such as this one:
> https://www.amazon.com/dp/B004DYKIH4
> and then you can use the T25 bit with any typical torque wrench.


I just use a standard 1/4" socket.

I used the Ritchey Torque Key in the picture because it showed up better than the 1/4" socket.

View attachment 319476


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## tom_h (May 6, 2008)

Sure, 1/4 std hex socket will work. I like the adapter because it locks the bit & no worries of a dropped bit rolling away into some dark corner. Plus, I use it with other bits for other tasks, not all bike-related.



tka said:


> I just use a standard 1/4" socket.
> I used the Ritchey Torque Key in the picture because it showed up better than the 1/4" socket.


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