# Should i change these wheels?



## kaboose (Jul 20, 2005)

i'm relatively new to road riding, 175 lb, 5'8" female who mostly rides group rides 35-45 miles 2, 3 times a week.
the bike i just purchased came with Oval Concepts 330 wheelset. at 1990g they seem heavy so i've been researching other options under $500 and would like comments on these two:
Reynolds Solitude or Shimano Ultegra 6700 (which for a while i could only run w/tubes).

so, should i?


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## Mike T. (Feb 3, 2004)

You don't state your reasons for wanting these new wheels. What do you expect from them compared to what you already have?


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## morgan1819 (Nov 22, 2005)

Mike T. said:


> You don't state your reasons for wanting these new wheels. What do you expect from them compared to what you already have?


Sounds like she wants something lighter than what she has, since she quoted the 1990gm weight. 

First question: are they really 1990 grams? That seems heavy for some reason.

The Solitudes and Shimano's are both decent wheelsets, and both would drop 3/4 of a pound or so off of your bike. The Shimano 6700's are a very high quality wheel, and a great buy right now, if you can find them in the $370-$400 range (Google and eBay are your friends).

As far as overall speed goes, you aren't going to notice a huge difference from a wheel change. Dropping 3/4 lb of rotating weight will make the bike feel a little 'zippier' though, if you are doing a lot of quick accelerations, and your legs may feel a little fresher at the top of a long hill.

So, I don't think you really 'need' new wheels, and they aren't going to make you noticeably faster ... but it's always fun to try new stuff. You could always sell them if you weren't happy. It happens all the time. 

You could also splurge on a set of racing tires - like the Michelin Pro Race 4, or Vittoria Corsa Evo.


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## kaboose (Jul 20, 2005)

thank you guys 4 the input. yes, my reason was be go lighter - and hopefully improve my performance - but didn't know if i'd really benefit all that much. i'm not into racing (too old), but i'd like to be a bit faster/zippier and climb better, which i know comes as i practice more. 

i got the weight from oval concepts website by contacting them since the weight is not listed. i got an email from them stating the 1990g weight.

amazon has the ultegras for $388 plus shipping. performance has the solitudes for $399. since i bought my bike (fuji gran fondo 2.0) there, i have ~$220 in my performance card...


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## kaboose (Jul 20, 2005)

PS: or would that money be better spent purchasing accessories like some cool carbon water bottle cages, a wireless cyclocomputer and other whatnots?


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## morgan1819 (Nov 22, 2005)

kaboose said:


> thank you guys 4 the input. yes, my reason was be go lighter - and hopefully improve my performance - but didn't know if i'd really benefit all that much. i'm not into racing (too old), but i'd like to be a bit faster/zippier and climb better, which i know comes as i practice more.
> 
> i got the weight from oval concepts website by contacting them since the weight is not listed. i got an email from them stating the 1990g weight.
> 
> amazon has the ultegras for $388 plus shipping. performance has the solitudes for $399. since i bought my bike (fuji gran fondo 2.0) there, i have ~$220 in my performance card...


Nashbar has the WH-6700's on sale. Just have Performance price match them ... you should be good to go for a long time.


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## valleycyclist (Nov 1, 2009)

kaboose said:


> PS: or would that money be better spent purchasing accessories like some cool carbon water bottle cages, a wireless cyclocomputer and other whatnots?


I would personally spend the money on a cyclocomputer, new tires, or use it towards wheels before spending it on carbon water bottle cages. Or maybe a different saddle if you do not like the one that came with your bicycle.


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## Mike T. (Feb 3, 2004)

kaboose said:


> thank you guys 4 the input. yes, my reason was be go lighter - and hopefully improve my performance - but didn't know if i'd really benefit all that much. i'm not into racing (too old), but i'd like to be a bit faster/zippier and climb better, which i know comes as i practice more.


As much as we like to think that new lighter wheels (or any lighter bike parts) will transform our riding, it just doesn't happen. Saving 500grams (1lb?) from a wheelset will make the bike feel a bit nippier under acceleration but once the wheels are rolling then one of Newton's laws takes effect - something about a body (or in this case a wheel) in motion wanting to stay in motion. Going uphill, one pound saved on the wheels makes the difference of one pound saved anywhere else (yes, on your body too). To put it in context, a full small waterbottle weighs 648g or 1.4lbs. And when's the last time we worried about carrying water or even considered its effect on performance?



> amazon has the ultegras for $388 plus shipping. performance has the solitudes for $399. since i bought my bike (fuji gran fondo 2.0) there, i have ~$220 in my performance card...


The problem with the Ultegras is not that they're a bad wheelset, it's that they use so few spokes - 16f, 20r in this case. Spokes have work to do, and a lot of it goes into keeping a rim true. In any wheel, break one of these spokes and the rim goes out of true. The less spokes the more it goes out of true. There is a good chance that one of those 16/20 spoke wheels won't even turn in the frame or fork if this happens. If saving the weight of a few spokes means a lot to you and is worth the gamble then go for it.

I'm your weight and height and use 24/28 spoke wheels. Reliability means more to me than any minor gain in performance - and any performance gain of lighter wheels or less spokes will be lost within the variation of day to day rides. Nothing will add a 1mph average speed to your riding - except for a lighter bod and more training.

There is nothing special about the Solitudes wheels either. They too use 18/20 spokes and weigh 1633 grams. The wheels below, hand built in CA USA beat them for price ($349 shipped free), weight (mine weigh 1584g) and spokes (24/28) -

Road - Riders 220 or less - Pure Race SuperLight 700c - Bicycle Wheel Warehouse

And if you feel like going even lighter, their Blackset Race will come in just under 1500g (1490ish?), also with 24/28 spokes and cost $330 -

Road - Riders 198 or less - Blackset Race 11 Wheel Set 1495g* - Bicycle Wheel Warehouse

I have both sets. Friends have them also. Awesome wheels and the best value out there.


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## Mike T. (Feb 3, 2004)

kaboose said:


> PS: or would that money be better spent purchasing accessories like some cool carbon water bottle cages, a wireless cyclocomputer and other whatnots?


Spare tires, spare tubes (buy them all on sale), extra shorts, spare waterbottles and yes a good wireless computer. I've had awesome luck with Sigma 1600 series wireless (have 'em on 3-4 bikes) but my Garmin Edge 200 (GPS based) is a lot of fun especially when the ride is uploaded to Garmin's Connect site. $149.


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## morgan1819 (Nov 22, 2005)

Mike T. said:


> As much as we like to think that new lighter wheels (or any lighter bike parts) will transform our riding, it just doesn't happen. Saving 500grams (1lb?) from a wheelset will make the bike feel a bit nippier under acceleration but once the wheels are rolling then one of Newton's laws takes effect - something about a body (or in this case a wheel) in motion wanting to stay in motion. Going uphill, one pound saved on the wheels makes the difference of one pound saved anywhere else (yes, on your body too). To put it in context, a full small waterbottle weighs 648g or 1.4lbs. And when's the last time we worried about carrying water or even considered its effect on performance?
> 
> 
> The problem with the Ultegras is not that they're a bad wheelset, it's that they use so few spokes - 16f, 20r in this case. Spokes have work to do, and a lot of it goes into keeping a rim true. In any wheel, break one of these spokes and the rim goes out of true. The less spokes the more it goes out of true. There is a good chance that one of those 16/20 spoke wheels won't even turn in the frame or fork if this happens. If saving the weight of a few spokes means a lot to you and is worth the gamble then go for it.
> ...


In your fervor to promote BWW, you neglected to notice that she has a $220 Performance credit she would like to put towards a wheelset. 

I've had a set of Blackset Race that came on a pre-owned bike I bought for my woman friend to bring on vacation with us. They are nothing special either. In comparison to no name chinese parts on the bww's, the Ultegra hubs/wheels look like jewelry. 

Oh yeah, I weigh between 175 and 195, and have beat the heck out of the WH-6700 for two years, and not one single issue. They have been perfect.

To each their own, I guess. What do I know?


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## Mike T. (Feb 3, 2004)

morgan1819 said:


> In your fervor to promote BWW, you neglected to notice that she has a $220 Performance credit she would like to put towards a wheelset.


If you read ALL the posts, instead of rushing to take me to task, you would have read that she asked ".....or would that money be better spent purchasing accessories like some cool carbon water bottle cages, a wireless cyclocomputer and other whatnots?"

That was a question that I was free to answer; and I did, in a manner that *I* thought best for her. IMO she would be better off with accessories rather than 16/20 spoke wheels***. Your answer may vary and that's what's ok about forums like this.

***BTW, if those wheels are ok for a 175lb person, what spoke numbers should a 100lb person use?


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## bayAreaDude (Apr 13, 2012)

I weigh 170 and have the Ultegras. I love them. Great value, I have no problems keeping them true, and I'm loving running tubeless tires. For me, it was between these and the Williams 30's, but since I got the Ultegras for 320 shipped, I went with those and am totally satisfied.


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## morgan1819 (Nov 22, 2005)

Mike T. said:


> If you read ALL the posts, instead of rushing to take me to task, you would have read that she asked ".....or would that money be better spent purchasing accessories like some cool carbon water bottle cages, a wireless cyclocomputer and other whatnots?"
> 
> That was a question that I was free to answer; and I did, in a manner that *I* thought best for her. IMO she would be better off with accessories rather than 16/20 spoke wheels***. Your answer may vary and that's what's ok about forums like this.
> 
> ***BTW, if those wheels are ok for a 175lb person, what spoke numbers should a 100lb person use?



We'll have to agree to disagree on this one, Mike.

If I can use $220 credit and get Ultegra's for $160, versus $350 for Balckset race ... it's not even close. 

And I'll take a pass on your carbon bottle cages recommendation.

As far as the Ultegra WH-6700 wheels being okay for a 175lb person ... the answer is that I have put about 12k miles of hard use on them, and they are still perfect. Hubs are smoother than when they were new, and the braking is pulsation free. Rims are true and round. So yes, there are enough spokes for me.

Are you saying that you know something that the Shimano wheel division doesn't?


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## cmg (Oct 27, 2004)

the Oval Concepts 330 wheelset use a 30mm rim, anything with a lighter rim will perform better provided you use lots of spokes. 24/28, 28/32 would work. the bww wheelset uses less than 400 gram rims. the oval 330 uses rims that are 460+grams. it's the rotating weight you notice first. 20/24 spoked wheels need heavier rims to support the higher tensions. also getting light rims/light wheels does you no good if you run heavier tires (conti gatorskins) and heavy tubes (thorn resistant). they'll still feel sluggish.


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## BWWpat (Dec 17, 2009)

morgan1819 said:


> In comparison to no name chinese parts on the bww's,


Which part are you speaking of? The DT swiss or sapim spokes and nipples depending on the upgrade? Formula's top end hubs? Or our rim designed for us in the states and produced in Taiwan?

None of the parts on the blackset race are from "China". Also if you are talking about aesthetic and you have only seen the old blackset race, you are missing an entire generation of wheels. The finish has been drastically improved.

Its cool that you are excited about the things you are excited about. That's why we are all here, but don't make statements of fact that are far from it because those are called assumptions, and we all know what assumptions do.


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## morgan1819 (Nov 22, 2005)

cmg said:


> the Oval Concepts 330 wheelset use a 30mm rim, anything with a lighter rim will perform better provided you use lots of spokes. 24/28, 28/32 would work. the bww wheelset uses less than 400 gram rims. the oval 330 uses rims that are 460+grams. it's the rotating weight you notice first. 20/24 spoked wheels need heavier rims to support the higher tensions. also getting light rims/light wheels does you no good if you run heavier tires (conti gatorskins) and heavy tubes (thorn resistant). they'll still feel sluggish.



Why on earth would the OP even consider BWW wheels when they have a $220 credit towards Performance bike they would like to use?

I mean seriously, even if for some reason Performance carried BWW (which they don't), I still would still buy the Ultegra's the OP has already indicated they were interested in.

I've ridden both wheels, and kept the Ultegra's. It wasn't even close for me...

In fact, for anyone even considering anything from BWW ... just go to BikeHubstore.com and buy the parts there, and have a local builder (or yourself) lace them up. My experience with BikeHubStore was excellent.


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## Mike T. (Feb 3, 2004)

morgan1819 said:


> We'll have to agree to disagree on this one, Mike.


That doesn't bother me at all.



> If I can use $220 credit and get Ultegra's for $160, versus $350 for Balckset race ... it's not even close.


Low spoke wheels full of proprietary spokes? To each their own Morgan.



> And I'll take a pass on your carbon bottle cages recommendation.


Now you're seeing things that don't exist. I didn't recommend ANY cages and especially not carbon ones.



> As far as the Ultegra WH-6700 wheels being okay for a 175lb person ... the answer is that I have put about 12k miles of hard use on them, and they are still perfect. Hubs are smoother than when they were new, and the braking is pulsation free. Rims are true and round. So yes, there are enough spokes for me.


Great. Running the site I do (free info) I hear from many people who have had to CARRY their bikes when they broke a spoke. As I said in my earlier post, if that potential risk is worth whatever gain you get out of the omission of 16 spokes then go for it.



> Are you saying that you know something that the Shimano wheel division doesn't?


They're in the business of attracting customers. I'm in the business of giving out free info. You decide who to listen to. I really don't care.


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## Mike T. (Feb 3, 2004)

cmg said:


> the Oval Concepts 330 wheelset use a 30mm rim, anything with a lighter rim will perform better provided you use lots of spokes. 24/28, 28/32 would work. the bww wheelset uses less than 400 gram rims. the oval 330 uses rims that are 460+grams. it's the rotating weight you notice first. 20/24 spoked wheels need heavier rims to support the higher tensions. also getting light rims/light wheels does you no good if you run heavier tires (conti gatorskins) and heavy tubes (thorn resistant). they'll still feel sluggish.


The BWW Blackset Race (24mm deep) - their lightest rim - uses a 415g rim. My older version (since upgraded by them) was a sub-400g rim. They don't sell it anymore.

Their 27mm deep rim, in the Superlight wheelset weighs 425g.

Their 30mm deep rim (Pure Aero) I don't see a rim weigh for. I'll assume it's 450+g.


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## morgan1819 (Nov 22, 2005)

Mike T. said:


> That doesn't bother me at all.
> 
> 
> Low spoke wheels full of proprietary spokes? To each their own Morgan.
> ...


For it not bothering you that I feel the WH-6700 is a solid choice - it sure seems to bother you. 

And what's your angle on BWW? It seems nearly all of your posts in regards to someones wheel choice contain links directly to the blackset wheels. It's as if nothing else exists.

Here's the thing Mike: You spend nearly your entire post implying that the WH-6700 is somehow a flawed design because of the # spokes. Please enlighten us on what you know that Shimano doesn't. I'm all ears.

I think the WH-6700 would be perfect for the OP, based on all of the criteria mentioned. I say that, because I have used that wheelset for 12,000 miles under similar circumstances. It's not just a theoretical opinion. 

My recommendation for anyone considering BWW wheels, would be to go to the BikeHubstore and by the parts, and have them built locally. I wouldn't even consider BWW.


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## morgan1819 (Nov 22, 2005)

BWWpat said:


> Which part are you speaking of? The DT swiss or sapim spokes and nipples depending on the upgrade? Formula's top end hubs? Or our rim designed for us in the states and produced in Taiwan?
> 
> None of the parts on the blackset race are from "China". Also if you are talking about aesthetic and you have only seen the old blackset race, you are missing an entire generation of wheels. The finish has been drastically improved.
> 
> Its cool that you are excited about the things you are excited about. That's why we are all here, but don't make statements of fact that are far from it because those are called assumptions, and we all know what assumptions do.


I stand corrected. I am not familiar with the quality of the Formula hubs, so I will look forward the reviews of the newer wheel design. 

The wheels definitely seem like a good deal for the money, especially compared to Mavic and a few others.


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## Mike T. (Feb 3, 2004)

morgan1819 said:


> For it not bothering you that I feel the WH-6700 is a solid choice - it sure seems to bother you. Here's the thing Mike: You spend nearly your entire post imply that the WH-6700 is somehow a flawed design because of the # spokes. Please enlighten us on what you know that Shimano doesn't. I'm all ears.


"In your fervor" your comprehension skills are going out the window Morgan. Go back and read where I typed "The problem with the Ultegras is not that they're a bad wheelset....." They are quite good but I personally think 16/20 spokes is dumb. And as for proprietary spokes (expensive, harder to get) well...................



> My recommendation for anyone considering BWW wheels, would be to go to the BikeHubstore and by [sic] the parts,


Brandon's a great guy and has nice Taiwan stuff - except for his Sapim spokes (made in Belgium). I introduced him to the N.Am importer and they do a roaring business together now and I've knocked apart most of his hubs and reported on their construction details (as requested) and supplied him with overhaul instructions.


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## Mike T. (Feb 3, 2004)

morgan1819 said:


> I stand corrected.


Not doing too well are you? I'd quit if I was you. I'm gonna as it's coffee time


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## morgan1819 (Nov 22, 2005)

Mike T. said:


> "In your fervor" your comprehension skills are going out the window Morgan. Go back and read where I typed "The problem with the Ultegras is not that they're a bad wheelset....." They are quite good but I personally think 16/20 spokes is dumb. And as for proprietary (expensive, harder to get) well...................


I completely disagree. 

If you are using the wrong spokes, or the wrong rim, the wrong lacing pattern, the wrong rider, etc ... then 16, 20, 24, 28, 32 could all be "dumb" (as you put it).

Go ahead and put a 250lb cyclocross rider on a Stans Alpha 340 24 spoke wheel, laced radially with Revolutions, and there is a potential for a poor performing wheel.


*I this specific case, Shimano has paired a great hubset, with quality steel spokes, on a quality rim, that is perfect for a 175lb road rider.* 

So, in this case, I am happy to disagree with you. But what do I know?


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## morgan1819 (Nov 22, 2005)

Mike T. said:


> Not doing too well are you? I'd quit if I was you. I'm gonna as it's coffee time


I'm doing great, actually. I have no problem with Pat, and appreciate the update on their products.

I do however, look forward to continuing our debate about which set of wheels would be a better deal for the OP, even though it is making me (and others I'm sure) slightly nauseous.


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## kaboose (Jul 20, 2005)

i want to thank you all for the good comments and suggestions. performance did match the nashbar price so i used my points to get the shimano ultegras. they had to be ordered and i got the bike yesterday! i rode it a bit around the neighborhood and love it. 
now i need to sell the oval wheels and tires (hutchinson equinox) with skewers. anyone interested PM me! :blush2:


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## morgan1819 (Nov 22, 2005)

kaboose said:


> i want to thank you all for the good comments and suggestions. performance did match the nashbar price so i used my points to get the shimano ultegras. they had to be ordered and i got the bike yesterday! i rode it a bit around the neighborhood and love it.
> now i need to sell the oval wheels and tires (hutchinson equinox) with skewers. anyone interested PM me! :blush2:



Very nice bike. Assuming you're running the wheels tubeless? 

My Fusion 3 Tubeless tires started off feeling a bit firmer than expected, but seem to be riding even smoother as I close in on 400 miles on them. At 180lbs, I have been running them at about 80psi rear and 75psi front.


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## kaboose (Jul 20, 2005)

morgan1819 said:


> Very nice bike. Assuming you're running the wheels tubeless?


thanks! yes, they're setup tubeless. 



morgan1819 said:


> My Fusion 3 Tubeless tires started off feeling a bit firmer than expected, but seem to be riding even smoother as I close in on 400 miles on them. At 180lbs, I have been running them at about 80psi rear and 75psi front.


at the LBS they pumped them to 110 and that's how i rode them this morning. i only rode for ~15 minutes; too hot in phoenix @ 8am...i am a wuss girl. i'll bring them down to 90 next ride for sure and see how i like the cushier/smoother feel.


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## echo7 (Sep 7, 2010)

just a thought..
I always think its better to loose weight first before shaving grams off the bike..

500 grams = 1 Lb.. you can easily take that off your weight.. and you'll match your goal.. hey its free !


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## Alias530 (Apr 14, 2013)

I have a Fuji Gran Fondo 2.0 and my gf has a Fuji Supreme 1.3. Mine has Oval 330 wheels and hers has Oval 327 wheels.

With the same tires, mine weigh 200 grams more EACH (I weighed wheel/tube/tire totally assembled). The 330's are really heavy wheels. I'm having trouble finding much info about either of them online but according to my scale there's a big difference.


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## dcgriz (Feb 13, 2011)

kaboose said:


> now i need to sell the oval wheels and tires (hutchinson equinox) with skewers. anyone interested PM me! :blush2:


Don't be in a hurry to sell those wheels. You are going to get a small fraction of what they worth and they don't worth much to start with.
It's nice to have a spare set of wheels because if you stick with the sport and spent enough hours on the saddle, chances are, there will be times you will need them.


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## SirKronan (Oct 1, 2013)

Alias530 said:


> I have a Fuji Gran Fondo 2.0 and my gf has a Fuji Supreme 1.3. Mine has Oval 330 wheels and hers has Oval 327 wheels.
> 
> With the same tires, mine weigh 200 grams more EACH (I weighed wheel/tube/tire totally assembled). The 330's are really heavy wheels. I'm having trouble finding much info about either of them online but according to my scale there's a big difference.


Wow, I wondered about that. I have a good Fuji frame now, and the bike also came with a carbon seatpost, fork and steertube. Even with fairly lightweight 105 grouppo it's weighing in at 20 lbs. A comparable GT bike on the same scale with two Ultegra components and 1 Tiagra component, but MUCH nicer rims weighs 2 lbs less. I know 1 lb of that may be in the frame. Holy hanna that Fuji SST frame solid and responsive!! The GT? A little smoother of a ride and less racy for sure. Spent lots of time testing them out on varying road conditions, hills, etc. I applaud the patience of the Salt Lake Performance Bike shop!! 

I am certain at the rims account for at least a pound of difference, though. They are solid and they are aero. They said at the shop that those Oval rims are tough as nails, and the look and feel it, too! I would definitely keep them for training/spares/whatever, rather than sell. You won't get your money's worth, and a bent rim will be a big pain without a spare laying around. 

The Blackseat ones here appear to be the best wieght/price ratio:
Blackset Race 13

Good info on those rims here:

http://forums.roadbikereview.com/wheels-tires/bww-blackset-race-10-1451g-review-233124.html


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## Mr645 (Jun 14, 2013)

My Altamira came with the Oval 330 wheels, and they are almost 2200 gm, really heavy, but they are bomb proof. I have gone about 1300 miles including a 40 mile Urban ride over conditions a carbon road bike should never see. I've hit dozens of train tracks at speed and the wheels are still straight. I too have been looking at some >1500g replacements, but not really sure if it would be worth it for my South Florida flatness


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## SirKronan (Oct 1, 2013)

Mr645 said:


> My Altamira came with the Oval 330 wheels, and they are almost 2200 gm, really heavy, but they are bomb proof. I have gone about 1300 miles including a 40 mile Urban ride over conditions a carbon road bike should never see. I've hit dozens of train tracks at speed and the wheels are still straight. I too have been looking at some >1500g replacements, but not really sure if it would be worth it for my South Florida flatness


Well, despite these heavy wheels, which make my Fuji's total weight = 20 lbs, the bike still feels faster and more responsive, and is noticeably better climbing than the GT Strike bike I compared it too. The GT Strike comes with a 1500g (approx) wheelset, Ultegra components (minus the FD, which is oddly Tiagra!?!) and weighs 2 entire lbs less (including pedals) than my Fuji. The GT feels almost sluggish, compared to the Fuji, and as of 2012 Fuji's SST frames have an inner baffle that helps tame the road bumps. I tested both bikes extensively on the same bumpy stretch and while the GT was a little softer of a ride, the Fuji wasn't bad by any means, at least by my perception.

But I've been riding an aluminum frame with a carbon fork, so I guess anything carbon is going to be at least a little smoother.


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