# 700x23 Tire to a 700x25????



## mseanschmidt (Jul 16, 2006)

I just saw that Competitive Cyclist is promoting the Michellin Pro Race 3 700x25. What do you think of going to a 25 for better ride quality? I race but also ride a lot of Century rides. How much rolling resistance and speed would I be giving up? I think I read that the pros ride 25s at Flanders & Paris Roubaix? Any input would be appreciated?
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2009 Michelin Pro 3 Race 700x25 Clincher Tire
Item: MIC125 Weight: 245.0g

When you're buying a new bike, two factors lord over all others: Weight savings and ride quality. Weight is easy to measure, and doing a dollar-per-gram-saved analysis is simple. Ride quality, though, is more of a mystery. The longer we're in the bike industry, the more we know that one person's 'magic carpet ride' is another person's jackhammer. It's rare to find unanimity in how a bike rides -- is too stiff? too soft? New debates start daily here, and they end not because of measurable evidence, but out of exhaustion.

Few items can guarantee an improvement in ride quality, but this is indisputably one of them. The Michelin Pro 3 Race in 25c width is identical in every way to our standard 23cm width, except for the fact that it's a fraction wider. More width means more overall volume to the tire. And more volume translates into more shock absorption. When you absolutely, positively need to mellow out the ride quality of your bike, the surefire solution is to install 25c's. Some folks try to buy a better ride quality by dropping $4k on a new frame or $1k on a new set of wheels. Our suggestion? At ~$120 you can get exactly what you crave.

Visually speaking, the added width of 25c tires is unnoticeable. And you'll have no problem fitting these in any bike. If it accommodates a 23c, it can handle a 25c. The ride difference, though, is real.

Just like the 23c version of the Pro 3 Race, the 25c has a Silica Energy rubber compound made in a "dual co-extrusion", which along with its 127tpi casing makes it feel as fast as it really is. One added standout quality of the Pro 3 Race is its flat resistance. On the one hand you get their newly-redesigned "High Density Puncture Protection" to resist glass, staples, and other road garbage. But you also get sidewalls that have a proven track record of blowout-resistance.
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## Zen Cyclery (Mar 10, 2009)

i like 25s more just because i feel like they are a bitt suppler and handle a bit better


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## ClassicSteel71 (Mar 5, 2009)

Some tests say 25mm has less RR. Who knows. Try um. If you like um great. I run 23mm up front 25 on the rear and love it..


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## Kerry Irons (Feb 25, 2002)

*How much do you weigh?*



mseanschmidt said:


> What do you think of going to a 25 for better ride quality? I race but also ride a lot of Century rides. How much rolling resistance and speed would I be giving up? I think I read that the pros ride 25s at Flanders & Paris Roubaix? Any input would be appreciated?


It depends a lot on your weight. If you're over 200 lb (90 kg) then 25s are a REAL good idea, though not necessary. If you're 120 lbs (55 kg) then you probably would do just fine on 20s, or 23s at low pressure. Beyond that, you trade off primarily tire weight and comfort. The added weight of 25s is pretty meaningless, but some people obsess over the numbers. The reduced sidewall deflection of a larger tire (at the same pressure) is the reason that a wider tire will roll better, but people usually reduce pressure with wider tires, so that tends to cancel out. If you need to pump a 23 to over 110 psi (7.5 bar) to prevent pinch flats, or you feel your bike rides to harshly, then go to wider tires.


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## mseanschmidt (Jul 16, 2006)

looks like i'll try the 25s based on the feedback! can i use a latex tube with those as well? and, do you know of anyone who makes them? everything i've seen in latex tubes says 700x20-23?????


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## ctoestreich (Aug 14, 2008)

I found this table online from some tests conducted on tire width and RR.

<table style="font-family: Arial;" align="" border="1" cellpadding="1" cellspacing="0"><tbody><tr><td style="vertical-align: top;" bgcolor="#009999"><font size="1">Clincher Tire Model </font> </td><td style="vertical-align: top;" bgcolor="#009999"><font size="1">Crr at 7 bar(~101 psi)</font></td><td style="vertical-align: top;" bgcolor="#009999"><font size="1">Rolling Performance at 7 bar (</font><font size="1">~101 psi)</font> </td><td style="vertical-align: top;" bgcolor="#009999"><font size="1">Grip Value (higher = better) </font> </td><td style="vertical-align: top;" bgcolor="#009999"><font size="1">Actual Width </font> </td><td style="vertical-align: top;" bgcolor="#009999"><font size="1">Weight </font> </td><td style="vertical-align: top;" bgcolor="#009999"><font size="1">PunctureResistance </font> </td></tr><tr><td style="vertical-align: top;" bgcolor="#ffffff" height="5"><font size="1">  </font> </td><td style="vertical-align: top;" bgcolor="#ffffff"><font size="1"> </font> </td><td style="vertical-align: top;"><font size="1"> </font> </td><td style="vertical-align: top;" bgcolor="#ffffff"><font size="1"> </font> </td><td style="vertical-align: top;" bgcolor="#ffffff"><font size="1"> </font> </td><td style="vertical-align: top;" bgcolor="#ffffff"><font size="1"> </font> </td><td style="vertical-align: top;" bgcolor="#ffffff"><font size="1"> </font> </td></tr><tr><td style="vertical-align: top;" bgcolor="#66cc99"><font size="1">Deda Tre Giro d'Italia </font> </td><td style="vertical-align: top;" bgcolor="#66cc99"><font size="1">0.0038 </font> </td><td style="vertical-align: top;" bgcolor="#66cc99"><font size="1">26.4 Watt </font> </td><td style="vertical-align: top;" bgcolor="#66cc99"><font size="1">0.44 </font> </td><td style="vertical-align: top;" bgcolor="#66cc99"><font size="1">24.0 mm </font> </td><td style="vertical-align: top;" bgcolor="#66cc99"><font size="1">236 g </font> </td><td style="vertical-align: top;" bgcolor="#66cc99"><font size="1">Very Low </font> </td></tr><tr><td style="vertical-align: top;" bgcolor="#cccccc"><font size="1">Vittoria Open Corsa Evo CX </font> </td><td style="vertical-align: top;" bgcolor="#cccccc"><font size="1">0.0039 </font> </td><td style="vertical-align: top;" bgcolor="#cccccc"><font size="1">27.1 Watt </font> </td><td style="vertical-align: top;" bgcolor="#cccccc"><font size="1">0.45 </font> </td><td style="vertical-align: top;" bgcolor="#cccccc"><font size="1">23.5 mm </font> </td><td style="vertical-align: top;" bgcolor="#cccccc"><font size="1">229 g </font> </td><td style="vertical-align: top;" bgcolor="#cccccc"><font size="1">Low </font> </td></tr><tr><td style="vertical-align: top;" bgcolor="#66cc99"><font size="1">Michelin Pro2 Race </font> </td><td style="vertical-align: top;" bgcolor="#66cc99"><font size="1">0.0042 </font> </td><td style="vertical-align: top;" bgcolor="#66cc99"><font size="1">29.2 Watt </font> </td><td style="vertical-align: top;" bgcolor="#66cc99"><font size="1">0.45 </font> </td><td style="vertical-align: top;" bgcolor="#66cc99"><font size="1">23.0 mm </font> </td><td style="vertical-align: top;" bgcolor="#66cc99"><font size="1">223 g </font> </td><td style="vertical-align: top;" bgcolor="#66cc99"><font size="1">Very Good </font> </td></tr><tr><td style="vertical-align: top;" bgcolor="#cccccc"><font size="1">Vittoria Diamante Pro Rain </font></td><td style="vertical-align: top;" bgcolor="#cccccc"><font size="1">0.0044 </font></td><td style="vertical-align: top;" bgcolor="#cccccc"><font size="1">30.6 Watt </font></td><td style="vertical-align: top;" bgcolor="#cccccc"><font size="1">0.43 </font></td><td style="vertical-align: top;" bgcolor="#cccccc"><font size="1">22.5 mm </font></td><td style="vertical-align: top;" bgcolor="#cccccc"><font size="1">201 g </font></td><td style="vertical-align: top;" bgcolor="#cccccc"><font size="1">Okay </font></td></tr><tr><td style="vertical-align: top;" bgcolor="#66cc99"><font size="1">Michelin Megamium 2 </font></td><td style="vertical-align: top;" bgcolor="#66cc99"><font size="1">0.0047 </font></td><td style="vertical-align: top;" bgcolor="#66cc99"><font size="1">32.7 Watt </font></td><td style="vertical-align: top;" bgcolor="#66cc99"><font size="1">0.45 </font></td><td style="vertical-align: top;" bgcolor="#66cc99"><font size="1">23.0 mm </font></td><td style="vertical-align: top;" bgcolor="#66cc99"><font size="1">223 g </font></td><td style="vertical-align: top;" bgcolor="#66cc99"><font size="1">Good </font></td></tr><tr><td style="vertical-align: top;" bgcolor="#cccccc"><font size="1">Pariba Revolution </font> </td><td style="vertical-align: top;" bgcolor="#cccccc"><font size="1">0.0048 </font> </td><td style="vertical-align: top;" bgcolor="#cccccc"><font size="1">33.4 Watt </font> </td><td style="vertical-align: top;" bgcolor="#cccccc"><font size="1">0.46 </font> </td><td style="vertical-align: top;" bgcolor="#cccccc"><font size="1">21.5 mm </font> </td><td style="vertical-align: top;" bgcolor="#cccccc"><font size="1">211 g </font> </td><td style="vertical-align: top;" bgcolor="#cccccc"><font size="1">Good </font> </td></tr><tr><td style="vertical-align: top;" bgcolor="#66cc99"><font size="1">Michelin Carbon </font> </td><td style="vertical-align: top;" bgcolor="#66cc99"><font size="1">0.0050 </font> </td><td style="vertical-align: top;" bgcolor="#66cc99"><font size="1">34.7 Watt </font> </td><td style="vertical-align: top;" bgcolor="#66cc99"><font size="1">0.46 </font> </td><td style="vertical-align: top;" bgcolor="#66cc99"><font size="1">23.0 mm </font> </td><td style="vertical-align: top;" bgcolor="#66cc99"><font size="1">241 g </font> </td><td style="vertical-align: top;" bgcolor="#66cc99"><font size="1">Very Good </font> </td></tr><tr><td style="vertical-align: top;" bgcolor="#cccccc"><font size="1">Panaracer Stradius Pro </font> </td><td style="vertical-align: top;" bgcolor="#cccccc"><font size="1">0.0051 </font> </td><td style="vertical-align: top;" bgcolor="#cccccc"><font size="1">35.4 Watt </font> </td><td style="vertical-align: top;" bgcolor="#cccccc"><font size="1">0.50 </font> </td><td style="vertical-align: top;" bgcolor="#cccccc"><font size="1">22.5 mm </font> </td><td style="vertical-align: top;" bgcolor="#cccccc"><font size="1">214 g </font> </td><td style="vertical-align: top;" bgcolor="#cccccc"><font size="1">Good</font></td></tr><tr><td style="vertical-align: top;" bgcolor="#66cc99"><font size="1">Schwalbe Stelvio Plus </font> </td><td style="vertical-align: top;" bgcolor="#66cc99"><font size="1">0.0052 </font> </td><td style="vertical-align: top;" bgcolor="#66cc99"><font size="1">36.1 Watt </font> </td><td style="vertical-align: top;" bgcolor="#66cc99"><font size="1">0.43 </font> </td><td style="vertical-align: top;" bgcolor="#66cc99"><font size="1">22.5 mm </font> </td><td style="vertical-align: top;" bgcolor="#66cc99"><font size="1">223 g </font> </td><td style="vertical-align: top;" bgcolor="#66cc99"><font size="1">Low </font> </td></tr><tr><td style="vertical-align: top;" bgcolor="#cccccc"><font size="1">Schwalbe Stelvio Ev. Front/Rear * </font> </td><td style="vertical-align: top;" bgcolor="#cccccc"><font size="1">0.0056 0.0057 </font> </td><td style="vertical-align: top;" bgcolor="#cccccc"><font size="1">39.3 Watt * </font> </td><td style="vertical-align: top;" bgcolor="#cccccc"><font size="1">0.50 0.49 </font> </td><td style="vertical-align: top;" bgcolor="#cccccc"><font size="1">23.0 mm 23.0 mm </font> </td><td style="vertical-align: top;" bgcolor="#cccccc"><font size="1">241 g </font> </td><td style="vertical-align: top;" bgcolor="#cccccc"><font size="1">Low </font> </td></tr><tr><td style="vertical-align: top;" bgcolor="#66cc99"><font size="1">Hutchinson Fusion </font> </td><td style="vertical-align: top;" bgcolor="#66cc99"><font size="1">0.0057 </font> </td><td style="vertical-align: top;" bgcolor="#66cc99"><font size="1">39.6 Watt </font> </td><td style="vertical-align: top;" bgcolor="#66cc99"><font size="1">0.45 </font> </td><td style="vertical-align: top;" bgcolor="#66cc99"><font size="1">22.5 mm </font> </td><td style="vertical-align: top;" bgcolor="#66cc99"><font size="1">217 g </font> </td><td style="vertical-align: top;" bgcolor="#66cc99"><font size="1">Very Good </font> </td></tr><tr><td style="vertical-align: top;" bgcolor="#cccccc"><font size="1">Continental Ultra Gator Skin </font></td><td style="vertical-align: top;" bgcolor="#cccccc"><font size="1">0.0058 </font></td><td style="vertical-align: top;" bgcolor="#cccccc"><font size="1">40.3 Watt </font></td><td style="vertical-align: top;" bgcolor="#cccccc"><font size="1">0.50 </font></td><td style="vertical-align: top;" bgcolor="#cccccc"><font size="1">22.5 mm </font></td><td style="vertical-align: top;" bgcolor="#cccccc"><font size="1">215 g </font></td><td style="vertical-align: top;" bgcolor="#cccccc"><font size="1">Very Good </font></td></tr><tr><td style="vertical-align: top;" bgcolor="#66cc99"><font size="1">Ritchey WCS Race Slick </font></td><td style="vertical-align: top;" bgcolor="#66cc99"><font size="1">0.0058 </font></td><td style="vertical-align: top;" bgcolor="#66cc99"><font size="1">40.3 Watt </font></td><td style="vertical-align: top;" bgcolor="#66cc99"><font size="1">0.46 </font></td><td style="vertical-align: top;" bgcolor="#66cc99"><font size="1">22.0 mm </font></td><td style="vertical-align: top;" bgcolor="#66cc99"><font size="1">252 g </font></td><td style="vertical-align: top;" bgcolor="#66cc99"><font size="1">Low </font></td></tr><tr><td style="vertical-align: top;" bgcolor="#cccccc"><font size="1">Schwalbe Stelvio </font></td><td style="vertical-align: top;" bgcolor="#cccccc"><font size="1">0.0059 </font></td><td style="vertical-align: top;" bgcolor="#cccccc"><font size="1">41.0 Watt </font></td><td style="vertical-align: top;" bgcolor="#cccccc"><font size="1">0.43 </font></td><td style="vertical-align: top;" bgcolor="#cccccc"><font size="1">22.5 mm </font></td><td style="vertical-align: top;" bgcolor="#cccccc"><font size="1">223 g </font></td><td style="vertical-align: top;" bgcolor="#cccccc"><font size="1">Very Good </font></td></tr><tr><td style="vertical-align: top;" bgcolor="#66cc99"><font size="1">Specialized S-Works Mondo </font></td><td style="vertical-align: top;" bgcolor="#66cc99"><font size="1">0.0061 </font></td><td style="vertical-align: top;" bgcolor="#66cc99"><font size="1">42.4 Watt </font></td><td style="vertical-align: top;" bgcolor="#66cc99"><font size="1">0.44 </font></td><td style="vertical-align: top;" bgcolor="#66cc99"><font size="1">22.5 mm </font></td><td style="vertical-align: top;" bgcolor="#66cc99"><font size="1">227 g </font></td><td style="vertical-align: top;" bgcolor="#66cc99"><font size="1">Good </font></td></tr><tr><td style="vertical-align: top;" bgcolor="#cccccc"><font size="1">Continental GP Attack/Force * </font></td><td style="vertical-align: top;" bgcolor="#cccccc"><font size="1">0.0073 0.0057 </font></td><td style="vertical-align: top;" bgcolor="#cccccc"><font size="1">44.5 Watt * </font></td><td style="vertical-align: top;" bgcolor="#cccccc"><font size="1">0.47 0.43 </font></td><td style="vertical-align: top;" bgcolor="#cccccc"><font size="1">22.0 mm 23.0 mm </font></td><td style="vertical-align: top;" bgcolor="#cccccc"><font size="1">200 g 212 g </font></td><td style="vertical-align: top;" bgcolor="#cccccc"><font size="1">Very Good </font></td></tr><tr><td style="vertical-align: top;" bgcolor="#66cc99"><font size="1">Continental GP 3000 </font></td><td style="vertical-align: top;" bgcolor="#66cc99"><font size="1">0.0067 </font></td><td style="vertical-align: top;" bgcolor="#66cc99"><font size="1">46.6 Watt </font></td><td style="vertical-align: top;" bgcolor="#66cc99"><font size="1">0.45 </font></td><td style="vertical-align: top;" bgcolor="#66cc99"><font size="1">22.5 mm </font></td><td style="vertical-align: top;" bgcolor="#66cc99"><font size="1">220 g </font></td><td style="vertical-align: top;" bgcolor="#66cc99"><font size="1">Very Good </font></td></tr><tr><td style="vertical-align: top;" bgcolor="#cccccc"><font size="1">Hutchinson Top Speed </font></td><td style="vertical-align: top;" bgcolor="#cccccc"><font size="1">0.0069 </font></td><td style="vertical-align: top;" bgcolor="#cccccc"><font size="1">47.9 Watt </font></td><td style="vertical-align: top;" bgcolor="#cccccc"><font size="1">0.45 </font></td><td style="vertical-align: top;" bgcolor="#cccccc"><font size="1">22.5 mm </font></td><td style="vertical-align: top;" bgcolor="#cccccc"><font size="1">208g </font></td><td style="vertical-align: top;" bgcolor="#cccccc"><font size="1">Low </font></td></tr></tbody></table><br><font style="font-family: Arial;" size="1">* Rolling performance represents the average of both front and rear tires.</font>


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## greenforest56 (Mar 5, 2009)

I switched to 25s and found the ride improvement significant. Also, fewer pinch flats. I ride them at about 110 psi and have had no pinch flats since. Before I was riding my 23s at about 100 psi to improve the ride and have an annoying number of pinch flats.


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## H5N1 (Mar 31, 2012)

Why is it that so many 700X25 tires are black, when the 700X23's are much more colorful? Shallow question, sure, but inquiring minds want to know.


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## Seoige (Dec 18, 2011)

Scmidt is on the ball but has missed an obvious point in his well written analysis. Tyre choice also makes a significance difference to ride quality. RR is improved by going from 23 to 25 and the bigger the balloon in the tyre the better the shock absorption. Lord knows we have to put up with enough pot holes. Another factor one should consider is the affect on the wheel. Think of a rubber tyre on a wheel and newtons forces and the reason we have crumple zones on cars. Not sure where Forest 56 is coming from on pinch flats, pinch flats is more to do with inadequate tyre pressure notwithstanding tyre choice. The question also begs does 23 c make you a serious cyclist. I would say no and a pretender. If the technology says says there is improved RR on 25 why bother going with 23c. There are significant difference between tyre manufactures as to how they achieve the look.Compare Bonty to Schwalbe case in point. As for H5 view that we are limited as to choice. I disagree. 23 versus 25 is an interesting debate, the fact is visually you may not see the difference but your ass will notice. As for my learning curve. Kenda designers lign them up and shoot them in the head proverbially speaking.. 5 puncture over 300k ride it broke my heart and enthusiasm. Bonty hardcases close on indestructible but ride weird..like you are on skates.Schwalbes race tyres, I feel they are fragile but they are not. Pulled a 4mm shard of glass out of them the other day. How the hell I never got a puncture is beyond me. I worry because I feel there must be a trade off between a good ride and reliability. Can they be that good? Ask me in a year To recap...go 25 look good and go with schwalbe.


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