# At least 19 Belgian riders implicated in blood doping investigation



## Hiro11 (Dec 18, 2010)

In the News: 19 riders implicated in Belgian blood-doping scandal - VeloNews.com

Evolving story. No names dropped yet as far as I can tell, but the story hints that there are several big names.


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## Fireform (Dec 15, 2005)

Get them out. 4 year bans.


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## Doctor Falsetti (Sep 24, 2010)

Hiro11 said:


> In the News: 19 riders implicated in Belgian blood-doping scandal - VeloNews.com
> 
> Evolving story. No names dropped yet as far as I can tell, but the story hints that there are several big names.


Gilbert, Boonen, and Van Den Broeck


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## Fireform (Dec 15, 2005)

Boonen. Damn.


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## Hiro11 (Dec 18, 2010)

Doctor Falsetti said:


> Gilbert, Boonen, and Van Den Broeck


Yeah, those are big names. Is there any source you can cite?


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## Local Hero (Jul 8, 2010)

What does Ozone do?


Just checked the wikipedia: 
_
Ozone therapy consists of the introduction of ozone into the body via various methods, usually involving mixing of the ozone with various gases and liquids and injecting this into the body, including the vagina, rectum, intramuscular (in a muscle), subcutaneously (under the skin), or intravenously (directly into veins). Ozone can also be introduced via autohemotherapy, in which blood is drawn from the patient, exposed to ozone and re-injected into the patient._

Ozone in the rectum...sounds gassy.


Also, Belgian court continuing investigation of ozone-therapy doctor | Cyclingnews.com


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## atpjunkie (Mar 23, 2002)

some cx guys as well
this could get interesting

so glad the spots been cleaned up


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## OnTheRivet (Sep 3, 2004)

atpjunkie said:


> some cx guys as well
> this could get interesting
> 
> so glad the spots been cleaned up


Nys tweeted something very cryptic this morning, I think the Kannibaal is going to take a hit.


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## Wookiebiker (Sep 5, 2005)

Saw this earlier today ... 4-5 people shocked  ... the rest, just business as usual :mad2:

Pretty sure this goes across all current top level teams, just most are not getting caught at this time. Anybody really think other than those busted already that Astana was clean this year?


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## den bakker (Nov 13, 2004)

atpjunkie said:


> so glad the spots been cleaned up


you kept repeating the same BS so long you actually start to believe it?


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## MR_GRUMPY (Aug 21, 2002)

Oh Noes......Say it ain't so, Joe.

Was that devil, Armstrong involved?????
.
Must be.
.


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## duriel (Oct 10, 2013)

It is posted how they do it, how does it help? 
Ozone would not last long in the body, would it?


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## Fireform (Dec 15, 2005)

duriel said:


> It is posted how they do it, how does it help?
> Ozone would not last long in the body, would it?


It's just an excuse to draw blood and reinfuse it. That's the real "therapy."


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## Jackhammer (Sep 23, 2014)

MR_GRUMPY said:


> Oh Noes......Say it ain't so, Joe.
> 
> Was that devil, Armstrong involved?????
> .
> ...


Actually, yes


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## CliffordK (Jun 6, 2014)

Fireform said:


> It's just an excuse to draw blood and reinfuse it. That's the real "therapy."


It depends on how long it is out of the body.

Would a cyclist with kidney failure be banned for dialysis?

I presume this process is just extracting the blood, ozonating it, and re-injecting it, thus nothing to do with the manipulation of hematocrit.

I wonder if there is any data about whether the procedure actually has any actual benefit.


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## spade2you (May 12, 2009)

CliffordK said:


> It depends on how long it is out of the body.
> 
> Would a cyclist with kidney failure be banned for dialysis?
> 
> ...


Blood can be stable when preservative added. A cyclist with kidney failure probably won't be on their bike much.


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## Alex_Simmons/RST (Jan 12, 2008)

If you have a legitimate medical reason for re-infusing blood, then you are in no shape to be racing bicycles.


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## DrSmile (Jul 22, 2006)

This is just another excuse to have blood transfusion equipment... like laser or UV blood irradiation treatment. Maybe it also masks other blood doping agents...


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## atpjunkie (Mar 23, 2002)

den bakker said:


> you kept repeating the same BS so long you actually start to believe it?


hey now. We got the bad guy, everything is fine....


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## atpjunkie (Mar 23, 2002)

OnTheRivet said:


> Nys tweeted something very cryptic this morning, I think the Kannibaal is going to take a hit.


maybe it explains his endless domination of the sport and his so-so performances this season

he did sign with Trek....

Boonen has a typically low-ish H Crit level (42 or something) so it is odd to hear him on one of these programs.


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## den bakker (Nov 13, 2004)

atpjunkie said:


> hey now. We got the bad guy, everything is fine....


guess that's a yes.


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## atpjunkie (Mar 23, 2002)

den bakker said:


> guess that's a yes.


oh don't be such a hater, you need to embrace the new clear era of the sport


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## den bakker (Nov 13, 2004)

atpjunkie said:


> oh don't be such a hater, you need to embrace the new clear era of the sport


yawn. 
this sh!t really for boring before it begone. but if that's what you prefer to roll in I wish you fun.


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## troutmd (Sep 7, 2007)

Any of them in the 50s racing Master and looking for glory?


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## Bluenote (Oct 28, 2012)

atpjunkie said:


> so glad the spots been cleaned up


Lady McBeth, is that you?


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## CliffordK (Jun 6, 2014)

I don't think I'd go for a long ban if they are just processing the blood and putting it back in (not storing it), and only doing it on race day. It is not clear if ozone therapy is actually illegal, and the notes that I read, it may actually be damaging to red blood cells. It probably has minimal benefit.

I don't see it as a method with long lasting implications such as the steroids that could have residual effects for years. 

I'd probably do a ban of the remainder of the current season plus one full season, and blacklist all individuals, and the whole team for extra future testing. That should at least be an effective deterrent. I don't know if the rules allow case-by-case judgements.


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## den bakker (Nov 13, 2004)

CliffordK said:


> I don't think I'd go for a long ban if they are just processing the blood and putting it back in (not storing it), and only doing it on race day. It is not clear if ozone therapy is actually illegal, and the notes that I read, it may actually be damaging to red blood cells. It probably has minimal benefit.


not illegal since 2011? 
What exactly did Pieter Van Herck then get a 2 year ban for?


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## CliffordK (Jun 6, 2014)

Looking at the WADA. Ozone is not specifically mentioned, even 2 years after the Van Herck case.

Any prosecution would have to fall under either the first clause:


> S0. NON-APPROVED SUBSTANCES
> Any pharmacological substance which is not addressed by any of the subsequent sections of the List and with no current approval by any governmental regulatory health authority for human therapeutic use


Or


> M1.MANIPULATION OF BLOOD AND BLOOD COMPONENTS


M1 specifically ALLOWS supplemental oxygen (of which this may be a special case).

The fault really lies in the extra-corporeal manipulation of the blood, and not necessarily in the ozone, although it is all suspicious. 

Pieter Van Herck received a 2 year ban (I suggested 1 1/2 years). Someone earlier in this thread suggested 4 years which seems to me to be excessive for something that could well have caused more harm than good.


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## Fireform (Dec 15, 2005)

The issue is not whether the blood manipulation was effective or not. It was deliberate use of a banned method. They need to be out of the sport.


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## Local Hero (Jul 8, 2010)

How could ozone or blood treatment be legal? 

Any blood treatment/processing will be covered by M1.1
_The administration or reintroduction of any quantity of autologous, allogenic 
(homologous) or heterologous blood or red blood cell products of any origin
into the circulatory system. _

Ozone in the blood would fall under M1.3 
_Any form of intravascular manipulation of the blood or blood components by physical or chemical means_


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## BikeLayne (Apr 4, 2014)

I am skeptical about the truth of it all. But given it's true I would vote for a lifetime ban from cycling along with prison time for everybody involved.


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## atpjunkie (Mar 23, 2002)

Bluenote said:


> Lady McBeth, is that you?


“A little water clears us of this deed”


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