# Hard Seat: Is there a good reason?



## Lawfarm (Jun 4, 2010)

My bike came with a rock hard, no padding tiny little wedge of a seat. As I was a biking newb, I removed that seat and put on one that had padding. No, not a huge beach bike seat, but just a little gel area where your sit bones hit. Amazingly, I've put a couple thousand miles on the bike wearing running shorts and compression shorts...but I just got my first pair of bike shorts (with chamois).

Upon getting the bike shorts, I thought it was now time to ceremoniously reinstall the hard as a rock seat for proper use...and after 30 miles, my ass is sore. I mean back to the first ride, learning all over again sore. No chafing, and the chamois was great, but my ass is sore. Part of the problem may be the seat (it seems too narrow), but here's the question: is there any good reason to give up my comfortable seat? When I'm riding, there is no way to tell what is under my ass--it looks much like the hard seat, but it has just a little padding. Is there a reason to ride a rock-hard seat? Is it just weight savings? Thoughts?


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## ARP (Mar 7, 2002)

*Those in the biz might know*

my opinion is that that is an area for the Mfger of the bike to cut a corner. They are not giving you a top rate saddle knowing that you will probably swap it out for something you like anyways, so why put on a quality saddle? Saddles are as individual to the rider as any other piece of equipment.


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## sabbathu (Feb 28, 2005)

I may be wrong, but I think a stiffer seat translates to more power transfer directly to the pedals. It should still be somewhat comfortable.


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## rx-79g (Sep 14, 2010)

Good seats have very little padding for the same reason that your cycling shoes aren't full of foam. If you have a seat that is a good shape for you, the padding can only cause chafing.

That said, you don't state what your saddle is, so we have no way of commenting on whether it is a nice, well engineered saddle or a throw-away. And even if it is a good saddle, it may not fit you so well.


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## dharrison (Oct 27, 2009)

Are the saddles you're comparing the same width? That might be your main problem. If the hard saddle is too narrow for your sit bones no amount of "breaking it in" will matter.


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## My Own Private Idaho (Aug 14, 2007)

Hard saddles are more comfortable. Soft saddles deform too much and pinch soft tissue. Firmer saddles only contact the sit bones.


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## AndrwSwitch (May 28, 2009)

Too soft a saddle will work its way "up in there." Eew.

Sometimes the combination of cycling shorts with a chamois and a soft saddle that worked well with unpadded shorts is too soft, and problems with pressure in bad places results. Sometimes it's fine.

Try your old saddle. If it's too soft with the shorts, either go back to unpadded shorts, look for cycling shorts with less of a chamois, or see if the company making your padded saddle offers something similar with less padding.

As other posters have mentioned, it's a very individual preference. I found a saddle I like in 2000, and from time to time I'll scour EBay for another one like it. I can usually adjust a men's saddle to fit me alright, but I know that that particular saddle works for me on the bikes I ride for periods of hours, so I try to find it again when I add a bike I ride more seriously to my collection.

Rumor has it that many of the pros refuse to change saddles when they change sponsors, and get the one they like rebadged instead.

The point being that if you've tried to adjust a saddle to fit you and it doesn't work, and you haven't just come back from a long break... it really is the bike.


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## waldo425 (Sep 22, 2008)

What kind of saddle is it? Send it my way. I like a saddle with minimal padding.


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## Mapei (Feb 3, 2004)

My Own Private Idaho said:


> Hard saddles are more comfortable. Soft saddles deform too much and pinch soft tissue. Firmer saddles only contact the sit bones.


Which pound the sit bones black and blue, I've found to my displeasure. 

My current saddle, a Fizik Antares, tries to have it both ways. Not a lot of contact except at the sit bones. But there and only there, it's fairly well padded. It's been working pretty well, so far. But still, when all your weight is concentrated on two relatively small spots, something is eventually going to get sore. And it won't be the saddle.


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## perttime (Jun 27, 2005)

Seat width and shape are essential for comfort.
What works for one might not work for another.

I have not tried one of those bare carbon seats but otherwise I find that too much padding can increase the "contact point" area enough to cause chafing.

If you find a seat that works great for you, keep it. Buy a spare too...


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## heathb (Nov 1, 2008)

You can get padded cutout saddles also. It all depends on what type of riding you're doing and what you're wearing. Too much padding and you'll end up boucing once the cadence goes up. To little padding and you'll find those saddles don't work well for things like commuting when you're not wearing cycling shorts. 

I use a san marco regal. It's wide, firm padding and shaped so I can go all day, dig in and not feel like your sitting on a railroad spike. This saddle works for me when I'm wearing my cycling shorts.

For commuting however I'd rather use something like my WTB rocket with plenty of padding. I could care less what this saddle looks like or what it costs, it's comfy and I can sit on it with street clothing without feeling a lick of pain.

If a saddle feels uncomfortable after 10 miles, dump it and find something that looks like it might be more comfy. Most of the saddles and especially the so call ergonomic racing saddles are hideous torture devices. I still get the urge to try out new saddles when they hit the market, but nothing has come close to my san marco regal for racing and training.


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## CliveDS (Oct 7, 2009)

If you are a newbie a hard saddle is not going to feel comfortable, once you have logged quite a few miles this will change. 

First you have the get used to sitting on the saddle. Get a soft one for now but hang onto that harder one and come back to it at a later time.


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## Lawfarm (Jun 4, 2010)

The 'hard' seat is a Selle Italia C2 Gel Flo









The 'soft' seat is a Serfas DDM-CT









After trying it again this morning, I've come to believe that the problem is threefold:
1. I'm used to the softer seat. While it took some getting adjustment to be able to put down 50-60 miles even on the softer seat, I think I'd have a whole new adjustment period going to a harder seat.
2. The Selle is too narrow for my sit bones (I'm putting weight on the outside edges of it).
3. The Selle is too 'crowned' for me (the center of it rises pretty significantly above the sides, causing some uncomfortable pressure in areas that we don't want uncomfortable pressure).

I think my short-term solution is to go back to the soft seat (gasp), and the long term solution may be to find a hard saddle that is wider. Perhaps I'll get my sit bones measured. I'm just trying to decide if there is anything wrong with the softer seat. Power transfer/efficiency issues make sense, but might not be significant enough for me at this point. OTOH, if I was getting rubbing from the soft saddle, that would be a reason to change. I'm going to try the chamois/soft saddle combo and see what I can figure out--short term, and go for a seat measurement and new 'hard' saddle, long term.

Thanks for all the guidance.


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## Lou3000 (Aug 25, 2010)

Yeah, I think new riders are often amazed at the seats that people ride on. I've put several hundred miles on a Selle Italia Team Flite, and aside from the carbon shell saddles, it is one of the hardest out there. I have to move around, stand, change position every 30 miles, but I have absolutely no soreness after or the next day. I've been riding the Flite shape saddle for 10+ years.

That said, your saddle pain is probably more related to the Selle Italia being a bad shape for you rather than too little padding. Try a Fizik, they seem to work for the largest portion of the population. Your LBS will usually have bright neon green Fizik tester saddles if they are a Fizik dealer.


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## Mike T. (Feb 3, 2004)

Unless it's a really expensive bike, it won't come with anything close to a good saddle. To me, they should do what they do with pedals - don't supply them on new bikes. Bike seats, like pedals, are a very personal choice.

But as a Newb you have a few things against you - even the world's best saddle will hurt until your backside gets toughened up. But how long should it take to get past this stage? Who knows. Bike saddles, to me, are something you keep swapping until you find one that suits you. I've been riding for 5 decades and just this year alone I did three saddle changes until I found perfection - a 20 yr old model, a San Marco Concor. What was ok last year wasn't ok this year. I've no idea what changed.


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## onespeed (Mar 21, 2002)

The Flite SLR was a revelation for me. 

I bought it because my Flite TI was stolen along with my seat post and it was a good deal. 

I planned on scouring Ebay for another old school flite Ti when I could get one. 

After riding it, I realized I loved the SLR and its width, size, and minimal padding. 

Considering taking it 1 step lower and getting the carbon shell only saddle.


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## AndrwSwitch (May 28, 2009)

Specialized makes their saddles in sizes. They also tend to have a pretty flat top, which I like and which sounds like it might work for you.

Other companies make fine saddles too, of course (my favorite is a Selle San Marco made for Bontrager.) I have a WTB kicking around that's pretty flat on top, although I found it a bit too squishy to leave on the bike it came on.


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## Dinosaur (Jan 29, 2004)

I do better with hard saddles. My fav is a San Marco Regal. It's not only the firmness, it's the size and shape. When I got back on my bike after I broke my hip my butt hurt like hell for 3 weeks. I used a Fizik Rondine for awhile. Pretty plush.

A big factor in saddles is position. I try to get mine perfectly level. 

You can't just come out and say to use saddle X. Comes down to what works for you.


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## Kerry Irons (Feb 25, 2002)

*Unpadded SLR*



onespeed said:


> The Flite SLR was a revelation for me.
> 
> I bought it because my Flite TI was stolen along with my seat post and it was a good deal.
> 
> ...


The leather cover on my SLR started to fray at only 2500 miles. At 25,000 miles I just peeled off the cover and took the foam off with a ScotchBride pad. I've been riding the plastic shell for the last 25,000 miles and I think it is actually slightly more comfortable than the thinly padded saddle was. To each his own. YMMV


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## eokerholm (Aug 5, 2009)

WTB makes great MTB saddles for happy butts.
The higher priced and less squishy models are transferable to the road.

I have the Selle Gel Elite and it's really about set up to keep it comfortable. A few mm or degrees off forward or aft and you and nether region will be in mucho pain.

Definitely an a$$ adjusment periond. And if you're off the bike for awhile, you have to reacclimate.

Get your miles in, but pay attention to the pains. Your body is giving you feedback on your fit.


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## c_kyle (May 28, 2010)

Mapei said:


> Which pound the sit bones black and blue, I've found to my displeasure.
> 
> My current saddle, a Fizik Antares, tries to have it both ways. Not a lot of contact except at the sit bones. But there and only there, it's fairly well padded. It's been working pretty well, so far. But still, when all your weight is concentrated on two relatively small spots, something is eventually going to get sore. And it won't be the saddle.


I just installed an Antares 00, and it's super stiff. Even the padding feels hard. The saddle, though, is actually pretty comfortable. I have a high pain tolerance, though, so I could probably ride a plank of wood.


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## Hank Stamper (Sep 9, 2009)

I think a lot depends on your riding style. If you're aggressive you're not really sitting on the saddle in the same sense you'd 'sit' down for dinner so there's no need for padding really. 
But for casual more upright riding it's tough to get away with no padding.

My saddle is very hard to the touch and I find it very comfortable for the riding I generally do which is aggressive.....however if I take a sight seeing type ride where all my body weight is constantly pressing down on the saddle the fact that it's hard starts to become a problem. I generally take my hybrid on those girlfriend rides (slow, upright position, little power going down) and it has a well padded saddle and works fine.


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## Mike T. (Feb 3, 2004)

c_kyle said:


> I have a high pain tolerance, though, so I could probably ride a plank of wood.


How about the blade of a bacon slicer?


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## marknelson (Oct 18, 2007)

Lawfarm said:


> The 'hard' seat is a Selle Italia C2 Gel Flo
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I have the same hard saddle as you, I've had it a couple of months now, and am going through the same thing, 40 mile ride Sunday and my butt hurts all day Monday. Like you, I think this saddle may be too narrow for my 190lb butt. I'm about ready to change to something else also, I just don't know what.


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## woodys737 (Dec 31, 2005)

IME it's so much more about the chamois construction, shape and type of fabric/material that determines comfort especially for new riders. Not to say that the saddle shape/dimensions are not important just understand they are dependent on each other. I think over time, if you ride consistently, that Serfas will turn into an ass hatchet.


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## ChilliConCarnage (Jun 1, 2006)

I have that Selle Italia on my CX bike and I like it. I'll trade you a Specialized Body Geometry or E3 Form for it if you'd like.


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## azpeterb (Jun 1, 2006)

Mike T. said:


> Unless it's a really expensive bike, it won't come with anything close to a good saddle. To me, they should do what they do with pedals - don't supply them on new bikes. Bike seats, like pedals, are a very personal choice.


I totally agree. Back in '97 I bought a decent bike, a Bianchi Veloce, nothing too fancy but it was nice....except for the saddle. I think the Marquis de Sade designed it. Instead of a recessed or cutout area where the perineum makes contact, this saddle had a raised, squared off section of very dense "padding". It felt like a brick was squishing parts that were never intended to be squished by a brick. Unless of course, you are the Marquis de Sade. I quickly dumped that saddle for one that was much more comfortable.

EDIT: Through the wonders of the Internet, I found a photo of the saddle! Check out this beauty!


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## Mike T. (Feb 3, 2004)

That's an awesome square ridge. The designer must have had a weird shaped bum.


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## aengbretson (Sep 17, 2009)

to the OP:

Like others have said, try out a bunch of different saddles. I'm currently riding a fizik antares and I love it. I almost never have to stand up to alleviate soreness in my tender regions because my weight is mostly on my sit bones and a little bit elsewhere (just enough to keep the skin at my sit bones from getting pounded into soreness). Before that I was on a fizik arione which was good but too soft for my tastes (saving it for a cross bike), and prior to that was an in-house saddle from argon 18 that was like a torture device leaving my perineum sore after 30 minutes regardless of the chamois.

Most bike shops know what it takes to find a good saddle so they allow demos (and companies like fizik often supply special demo saddles).


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## clydeosaur (Jan 5, 2010)

To the OP > Don't worry about names, padding thickness or weight. There is no golden rule. I've tried a NUMBER of saddle before finding one I can ride longer than 25/30 miles. If it's comfortable, why change?


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## ColoradoVeloDude (Oct 7, 2005)

I ride a Brooks Professional. To the casual observer it appears to be like you are sitting on a block of wood. Bottom line #1: Most comfortable saddle that I have had. Bottom line #2: saddles are highly personal items and, like your bike, you'll know it when you find it. (yeah, pun intended).

Gel saddles + bike shorts usually equals numb boy or girlie bits. The "softness" does a good job of compressing all the capillaries and blood flow. 

Most of the issues come with no being on the seat for long periods. Listen closely to your body. You'll know if it is the saddle that is causing the problems or just not enough time on the bike.


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## ChilliConCarnage (Jun 1, 2006)

Trade?:


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