# CX Disc Wheelset advice needed!



## cut.la.roc (Oct 8, 2013)

I have just ordered a surly straggler frameset and am looking to buy some wheels for it.

I am 200Lbs.

So far I have been considering:


Stans ZTR Iron Cross Comp 
Easton EA90 XD disc 

Looking at the specs the Stans Iron Cross Comp are rated at max rider weight of 195LBs, at 200LBs not sure how much of a risk this would be?

Will be riding predominantly on gravel roads and well maintained cycle trails.

I have a budget of $500-$1000 for the wheelset.

Any recommendations and advice much appreciated!


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## tednugent (Apr 26, 2010)

Companies rate their capacities with some sort of safety margin. You can always call them to confirm your concerns.

For about $50 more.... there's the Alpha 400 disc wheelset, with plenty of buffer space.


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## ergott (Feb 26, 2006)

I have the Iron Cross rims on one of my bikes. I wouldn't recommend them. They absolutely can't be used for any road tire. You might not want to use road tires now, but you exclude that option in the future.


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## cut.la.roc (Oct 8, 2013)

ergott said:


> I have the Iron Cross rims on one of my bikes. I wouldn't recommend them. They absolutely can't be used for any road tire. You might not want to use road tires now, but you exclude that option in the future.


Thanks for the info, very useful.


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## cut.la.roc (Oct 8, 2013)

tednugent said:


> Companies rate their capacities with some sort of safety margin. You can always call them to confirm your concerns.
> 
> For about $50 more.... there's the Alpha 400 disc wheelset, with plenty of buffer space.


Thanks for the info - seems as if the Alpha 340 or 400 might be a good option, just to find a good supplier to ship to canada.


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## tednugent (Apr 26, 2010)

cut.la.roc said:


> Thanks for the info - seems as if the Alpha 340 or 400 might be a good option, just to find a good supplier to ship to canada.


International Distributors

Canada



Cycles Lambert

1000 Rue des Riveurs

Levis, QC G6V 9G3

Phone: +1-800-463-4452

Website: Cycles Lambert



Orange Sport Supply Inc.

#106-2433 Dollarton Hwy.

N. Vancouver, BC V7H 0A1

Phone: +868 429 929

Website: Orange Sport Supply



Norco Products LTD

321 Hanlan Road

Woodbridge, ON L4L 3R7

Website: Norco Bicycles


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## cut.la.roc (Oct 8, 2013)

The Velocity Aileron wheels are also another option, anyone with experience of these?


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## dgaddis1 (Sep 27, 2008)

cut.la.roc said:


> The Velocity Aileron wheels are also another option, anyone with experience of these?


I have a set enroute for a customer build, they're getting laced up to some excellent White Industries CLD hubs. Rims should be here tomorrow. Well within the OP's budget, as would be lots of other custom options.


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## headloss (Mar 3, 2013)

cut.la.roc said:


> Thanks for the info, very useful.


It's stated right on the Stan's webpage...



> Step up to a true performance 'cross wheelset with our Iron Cross Comp. The Iron Cross Comp Wheelset is 1590g complete with our 3.30 disc hubs. The Comp offers the added durability and resilience of 32 spokes front and rear to handle the wattage of torque of the most powerful riders. The Rear 3.30RD hub is 11-speed compatible and also offered in a Campagnolo compatible version. The Iron Cross disc rims are designed for superior burp resistance with low pressure tube-type cyclocross clinchers.* As a dedicated 'cross wheelset, the width of the Iron Cross rim means it's optimized for common width cyclocross tires. It isn't compatible with road tires, and tires outside the most common cyclocross widths will be very difficult to mount.* The 20mm internal rim width provides superior tire performance and the stability necessary for wider cyclocross tires.
> *
> If you wish to use both Cyclocross and Road Tubeless tires, we recommend the Alpha Disc wheelsets*


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## tednugent (Apr 26, 2010)

technically, it's a dumbed down statement on their revised page.

1. Does the width of the Iron Cross mean you cannot use road tires on rims like the Velocity A23 & Pacenti SL23?

2. The very difficult to mount statement only applies to the tubeless road tire beads.

3. You can run regular road tires with tubes, however, though the pressure limits are 75 psi (25mm) and 80 psi (23mm), which may be fine for a lightweight weight, but for the OP... he'll probably pinch flat.

It's just easier for notubes to use a blanket statement about not recommending road tires, as they don't have to worry about all the caveats, they would have needed to state.

source: their messageboard forum


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## Kirk Pacenti (Mar 18, 2006)

You might consider our all black SL23. You can get them built up from our good friends at Ergott or Southern Wheelworks. 

Cheers, 
KP


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## seely (Feb 13, 2007)

tednugent said:


> technically, it's a dumbed down statement on their revised page.
> 
> 1. Does the width of the Iron Cross mean you cannot use road tires on rims like the Velocity A23 & Pacenti SL23?
> 
> ...


We designed and optimized the Aileron to be most aerodynamic with a 23-28c tire, so road tires are not an issue at all. I wouldn't hesitate to run a 2.2" 29'r tire, either.

As for tubeless ready rims and tight tires, using our Velotape or something similar (like Stan's) typically solves the issue. Thick tapes like Velox will make it difficult to mount tires. 

I actually just took a pair of Ailerons out of my stand, and have to say I was really impressed with the tension, true and roundness. I find them to be a pleasure to build, but I'm also a bit bias 

I sent 'shiggy' a pair of rims when they came out to get an objective/independent take on the rim, and he seems to be liking http://forums.roadbikereview.com/wheels-tires/my-velocity-aileron-rims-have-arrived-321530.htmlthem:


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## headloss (Mar 3, 2013)

tednugent said:


> 1. Does the width of the Iron Cross mean you cannot use road tires on rims like the Velocity A23 & Pacenti SL23?


I think it has more to do with the (presumed) shallowness of the well and effective ERD where the tire bead sits, although width could also be an (additional) factor. At least, that is what I took their warning about not using road tires to mean... anyways, just trying to shed some light on what ergott posted although I'm unsure of his personal reasoning.


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## dgaddis1 (Sep 27, 2008)

headloss said:


> I think it has more to do with the (presumed) shallowness of the well and effective ERD where the tire bead sits, although width could also be an (additional) factor. At least, that is what I took their warning about not using road tires to mean... anyways, just trying to shed some light on what ergott posted although I'm unsure of his personal reasoning.


Really short sidewall + almost invisible hook + high pressure = bad


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## ergott (Feb 26, 2006)

All that and the fact that the spoke tension dropped way more than I've ever seen when I installed Hutchinson Secteurs (tubeless). Stan's notes the incompatibility with road tires on their website.

It's early yet, but there are really no disc specific road rims that are even the same weight as their rim brake counterparts let alone a little lighter. The SL23 now comes in all black so it looks better on a disc bike. I'm told they have a proper disc specific rim in planning that won't even have the machined brake track. 

I have to do some more research, but I think a limiting factor to the rim weight will be designing them to be used with tubeless tires. It seems like the lighter rims are more susceptible to big tension drops when tubeless tires are installed.


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## Kirk Pacenti (Mar 18, 2006)

ergott said:


> I have to do some more research, but I think a limiting factor to the rim weight will be designing them to be used with tubeless tires. It seems like the lighter rims are more susceptible to big tension drops when tubeless tires are installed.


Weight is certainly a factor, but (imo) the tightness of the fit plays a bigger part. The tire bead can be tight enough to physically compress the rim, resulting in a measurable drop in spoke tension. 

For Pacenti rims we strive to meet ISO / ETRO specifications, erring slightly on the snugger side for what I would consider a "just right" fit. Loose enough for tool-less* tire installation and removal, but tight enough to facilitate tube-less set ups with relative ease. 

*We've had a *few* reports of excessively tight fits, but it seems to be a tolerance issue with tire production.

Cheers, 
KP


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## ergott (Feb 26, 2006)

Ideally, I'd love to have a rim that's about 390-420g. Typically a disc brake bike doesn't prioritize aero like rim brake so it doesn't have to compete with the SL23. An internal width of 20mm would be great. It would be optimized for 25+ tires. If a rim can be that weight or so and the tension doesn't drop too significantly, it would be a winner.

My favorite tire that I would be most concerned with is the Hutchinson Secteur. I think the future of this segment is in bikes that are more flexible and can take bigger tires. Two major players are the Cannondale Synapse disc, The Specialized Roubaix disc, and now the upcoming Trek Domane disc. They all accommodate tires larger than 25mm.

The people that want disc brakes most (like me) tend to want them for a bike that can be ridden on road and off road. The segment fits in between a road race bike and a touring/cyclocross bike. Tire pressure is lower than smaller road tires so the sealant is more likely to work on a full range of punctures. When I had 23mm tubeless, I managed to cut 2 tires large enough for the sealant to fail as well. The ride on the Secteurs is right up there with my favorite tubulars.


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## changingleaf (Aug 20, 2009)

A custom build with the Velocity Aileron wheels is an excellent choice.


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## seely (Feb 13, 2007)

cut.la.roc said:


> The Velocity Aileron wheels are also another option, anyone with experience of these?


I arranged to get a set of rims into shiggy's hands, he was kind enough to do a little write up. Here's his impressions: http://forums.roadbikereview.com/wheels-tires/my-velocity-aileron-rims-have-arrived-321530.html


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## dgaddis1 (Sep 27, 2008)

Kirk Pacenti said:


> For Pacenti rims we strive to meet ISO / ETRO specifications, erring slightly on the snugger side for what I would consider a "just right" fit. Loose enough for tool-less* tire installation and removal, but tight enough to facilitate tube-less set ups with relative ease.


Seems like you guys hit the nail on the head. I'm using the Secteurs on mine and one went on by hand, one needed just a little help from a tire lever, and both inflated with a floor pump. Easy-peasy.

Kirk - what are your thoughts on using the CL25 with a tubeless road tire like the Secteur (on a disc brake bike obviously)? For a tubeless CX tire I imagine they'd work great. 424g, 20mm inner width, and available in a 28H drilling.


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## bikerector (Oct 31, 2012)

The Aileron rims seems like a good option for you. I talked with velocity guys at Barry-Roubaix about them, sent a few messages their way and I have a set being built up right now to shimano CX-75 hubs. The rims should be very strong since they have good depth and width. Not super weight weenie but neither am I at 220 pounds.

The aileron's should be stronger than velocity deep V's or dyads based on their depth and width. I believe that's the conclusion we came to when discussing a build with them.

Plus, I like the looks of the decals on the black rims. Nothing wrong with a little extra sex appeal.


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## willstylez (Sep 15, 2011)

ergott said:


>


Hi Ergott,

I know this is a tad off topic, but regarding the pic of your bike you posted.....is that an Enve CX Disc fork? If so, what fender is that AND how did you mount it with no eyelets / brake drilling?

I'm building up a Moots for my do it all bike, road / gravel / touring, and been concerned with how to mount a front fender. Any help would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks.


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## ergott (Feb 26, 2006)

That's the Kona Project 2 fork, the same as the one on the Super Jake cross bike. There are hidden fender mounts on the back of the legs so this bike is ready for standard fenders.

The fork is awesome. It's stiff and handles real well. Weight is about the same as Enve and the retail is a lot less than the Enve.


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## willstylez (Sep 15, 2011)

ergott said:


> That's the Kona Project 2 fork, the same as the one on the Super Jake cross bike. There are hidden fender mounts on the back of the legs so this bike is ready for standard fenders.
> 
> The fork is awesome. It's stiff and handles real well. Weight is about the same as Enve and the retail is a lot less than the Enve.


Nice! I just googled it and looks as though Kona only sells the steel version of the Project 2 fork? If you don't mind me asking, where did you purchase it from?

*EDIT - Found it on Bikeman.com


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## ergott (Feb 26, 2006)

You found it, but I got mine with the frame from Endpoint.

Keep in mind you need a tapered steerer.


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## willstylez (Sep 15, 2011)

ergott said:


> You found it, but I got mine with the frame from Endpoint.
> 
> Keep in mind you need a tapered steerer.


Gotchya. My Moots Psychlo-X frame (which should be arriving next week) is set-up to run an Enve CX fork, which has a tapered steerer as well.

Looks like they are out of stock at Bikeman.com though. Maybe I'll shoot Endpoint an email, in hopes of purchasing it through them.


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## jct78 (Dec 12, 2011)

i personally wouldn't buy any wheels that have a weight limit attached to them. 

i ran 2 sets of easton EA90XDs this past CX season and they performed well. i ran them tubeless in the upper 30s psi depending on course and condition. pretty stiff wheel and they tracked well in the rough stuff. they never went out of true under my 220lbs and got me in on the podium a few times as well.


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## ergott (Feb 26, 2006)

So after talking to Pacenti, I'm going to rebuild my current hubs to some CL25 rims. the 20mm internal width will make those Secteurs about 29.5mm wide (same as the Iron Cross internal width). I'll have more piece of mind with the Pacenti rims being that they weigh a healthy amount without being porky and based on my experience with Secteurs and SL23s, the tension won't drop much. I should have thought of them sooner;-)


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