# Hamilton to R&R?



## blackhat (Jan 2, 2003)

this is way beyond worth watching. Lindsey <a href="http://boulderreport.bicycling.com/2007/12/friday-roundup.html">says</a> TH may sign/already has signed with Rock with an announcement to come by tomorrow.

confirmed- http://velonews.com/news/fea/13826.0.html


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## Pablo (Jul 7, 2004)

Ugh. What a combo. http://www.velonews.com/news/fea/13825.0.html


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## cbuchanan (Mar 6, 2006)

That will definitely make an interesting partnership.


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## btinder (Aug 25, 2007)

.....

I love how Mr. Ball runs his mouth about revolutionizing cycling and then signs a cyclists WHO DOPED. 

Stupid, just stupid.


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## Bianchi67 (Oct 16, 2005)

btinder said:


> cyclists WHO DOPED.


and DS


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## mikeyp123 (Mar 9, 2007)

a perfect match... the evolution of Tyler from cycling nice guy to cycling bad-boy... you gotta love it. Is he gonna lose the khakis and button down patterned old man shirts? Some tats? Awesome!


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## magnolialover (Jun 2, 2004)

*Why?*



btinder said:


> .....
> 
> I love how Mr. Ball runs his mouth about revolutionizing cycling and then signs a cyclists WHO DOPED.
> 
> Stupid, just stupid.


Now, don't get me wrong, I was totally anti Tyler's BS when he got busted, and tried to convince everyone that he didn't, and I seem to remember a lot of folks on THIS board defending him to the hilt, the whole "I Believe Tyler" website, and junk like that.

Anyway, the man "served" his time, and if there is a team willing to sign him, why can't he race? Again, served his time, and now should be able to ride. I don't have a problem with that. Folks don't seem to have a problem with say, Millar riding again, and other riders who have doped and been busted. Why not Hamilton? If he's still got the power, and the ability, he might as well sign up, and ride.


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## Einstruzende (Jun 1, 2004)

magnolialover said:


> Now, don't get me wrong, I was totally anti Tyler's BS when he got busted, and tried to convince everyone that he didn't, and I seem to remember a lot of folks on THIS board defending him to the hilt, the whole "I Believe Tyler" website, and junk like that.
> 
> Anyway, the man "served" his time, and if there is a team willing to sign him, why can't he race? Again, served his time, and now should be able to ride. I don't have a problem with that. Folks don't seem to have a problem with say, Millar riding again, and other riders who have doped and been busted. Why not Hamilton? If he's still got the power, and the ability, he might as well sign up, and ride.


Hamilton would still have us believe that he is innocent. David Millar does not. That's the big difference. You deserve a second chance when you admit you've done wrong, not when you've spent 2.5 years denying it in spite of overwhelming evidence.


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## Mootsie (Feb 4, 2004)

*So who is next?*

The Velonews article quotes that there may more surprises before the TOC. So who is next?


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## 32and3cross (Feb 28, 2005)

magnolialover said:


> Now, don't get me wrong, I was totally anti Tyler's BS when he got busted, and tried to convince everyone that he didn't, and I seem to remember a lot of folks on THIS board defending him to the hilt, the whole "I Believe Tyler" website, and junk like that.
> 
> Anyway, the man "served" his time, and if there is a team willing to sign him, why can't he race? Again, served his time, and now should be able to ride. I don't have a problem with that. Folks don't seem to have a problem with say, Millar riding again, and other riders who have doped and been busted. Why not Hamilton? If he's still got the power, and the ability, he might as well sign up, and ride.


I believe is the possible connection Funetes affair that is causing the sticking point. However since spanish done a good job of covering it up we'll never know if there is any real damning evidence against TH in there or not. Tyler should be thanking is stars hes not German other wise he would be under tons investigation.

Actually the while deal is getting really boring so may be it will be interesting to watch him race. Or more interesting to see if any on the people who said the would confront him actually do now that you have every chance of seeing him at you local NRC race. Too bad R&R can't sing Vino I think it would be funny to watch him and Botero race Athens twilight.


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## FondriestFan (May 19, 2005)

Sevilla or Heras are next.


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## blackhat (Jan 2, 2003)

Einstruzende said:


> Hamilton would still have us believe that he is innocent. David Millar does not. That's the big difference. You deserve a second chance when you admit you've done wrong, not when you've spent 2.5 years denying it in spite of overwhelming evidence.


Im with mags in practical terms. he served his time, there's nothing in the UCI charter that says you have to allocute to be able to race again. TH will always be a toolbox of enormous proportions for dragging his poor dead dog into his web of denial but if he wants to race so be it.


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## Mootsie (Feb 4, 2004)

FondriestFan said:


> Sevilla or Heras are next.


Is Sevilla done with Relax?


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## JSR (Feb 27, 2006)

blackhat said:


> TH will always be a toolbox of enormous proportions for dragging his poor dead dog into his web of denial but if he wants to race so be it.


LOL! Tyler the Toolbox!


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## magnolialover (Jun 2, 2004)

*True...*



32and3cross said:


> I believe is the possible connection Funetes affair that is causing the sticking point. However since spanish done a good job of covering it up we'll never know if there is any real damning evidence against TH in there or not. Tyler should be thanking is stars hes not German other wise he would be under tons investigation.
> 
> Actually the while deal is getting really boring so may be it will be interesting to watch him race. Or more interesting to see if any on the people who said the would confront him actually do now that you have every chance of seeing him at you local NRC race. Too bad R&R can't sing Vino I think it would be funny to watch him and Botero race Athens twilight.


True, there is the whole Puerto possible connection that the Spanish flushed away, but since they did, he's good to go once again for racing and riding, and all of that jazz. Once again, he served his time, and if someone is dumb enough to let him race, so be it.

In response to someone else who posted on here about Millar coming clean, yes, he did. AFTER he got busted. He didn't say anything until the Gendarmes found empty EPO vials in his house. What's worse? Not saying anything, or waiting to say something when you got busted, or just maintaining innocence? I think that in terms of being the same, well, they're both about the same. Millar is praised as being some sort of hero and all, but again, the man didn't come clean, until he was busted. If he had gotten rid of those empty EPO ampules, he would have never had gotten busted, and he would have never admitted anything.


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## btinder (Aug 25, 2007)

magnolialover said:


> Now, don't get me wrong, I was totally anti Tyler's BS when he got busted, and tried to convince everyone that he didn't, and I seem to remember a lot of folks on THIS board defending him to the hilt, the whole "I Believe Tyler" website, and junk like that.
> 
> Anyway, the man "served" his time, and if there is a team willing to sign him, why can't he race? Again, served his time, and now should be able to ride. I don't have a problem with that. Folks don't seem to have a problem with say, Millar riding again, and other riders who have doped and been busted. Why not Hamilton? If he's still got the power, and the ability, he might as well sign up, and ride.


Hamilton still contends he didn't dope. 

The straight dope is if you're a team who wants to push cycling in a new direction, you shouldn't be hiring riders who have doped.


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## 32and3cross (Feb 28, 2005)

magnolialover said:


> True, there is the whole Puerto possible connection that the Spanish flushed away, but since they did, he's good to go once again for racing and riding, and all of that jazz. Once again, he served his time, and if someone is dumb enough to let him race, so be it.


I never said he wasn't but having him on board will not help them get invited to the big races in Euro in the current climate like it not thats a fact just see Tinkoff and the Giro from last year they were told Drop Tyler or your out. It also looks pretty hypocritical after the bluster Ball put out about how he wouldn't have those sort of people around him. 

Me myself I will watch Tyler race withe same level of enjoyment as I watch other people for the most part. I was a big fan not much so any more. That said I don't support the team because of the sort person Ball is.


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## asgelle (Apr 21, 2003)

32and3cross said:


> That said I don't support the team because of the sort person Ball is.


How long have you known him?


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## 32and3cross (Feb 28, 2005)

asgelle said:


> How long have you known him?


I don't need or want to know someone who beats women.


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## asgelle (Apr 21, 2003)

32and3cross said:


> I don't need or want to know someone who beats women.


It's so easy to judge coming from a position of ignorance.


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## 32and3cross (Feb 28, 2005)

asgelle said:


> It's so easy to judge coming from a position of ignorance.



I agree i'm not ignorant tho.


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## asgelle (Apr 21, 2003)

32and3cross said:


> I agree i'm not ignorant tho.


Really? cf. post #19.


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## 32and3cross (Feb 28, 2005)

asgelle said:


> Really? cf. post #19.


whatever.


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## Mootsie (Feb 4, 2004)

32and3cross said:


> I believe is the possible connection Funetes affair that is causing the sticking point. However since spanish done a good job of covering it up we'll never know if there is any real damning evidence against TH in there or not. Tyler should be thanking is stars hes not German other wise he would be under tons investigation.
> 
> Actually the while deal is getting really boring so may be it will be interesting to watch him race. Or more interesting to see if any on the people who said the would confront him actually do now that you have every chance of seeing him at you local NRC race. Too bad R&R can't sing Vino I think it would be funny to watch him and Botero race Athens twilight.


Can you repost this in English please.


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## ridin at 4:20 (Dec 9, 2007)

*Are we talking about the same Tyler?*

Tyler Hamilton the cyclist, or his twin. Oh, wait, the twin died.


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## 32and3cross (Feb 28, 2005)

Mootsie said:


> Can you repost this in English please.


Sure assuming you not just trying to be sacastic,

TH was linked to the spanish blood doping clinic scandal nothing was proven but the evidence looked really bad, in at least as far as it was released. Since no charges were brought by USADA or WADA TH seems to be in the clear on that account but the mere linkage was enough for the Giro orgnizers to ask Tinkoff take TH and Jorge Jaske off their Giro roster which they did. If Tyler were a German rider he would most likely be under investigation and have had his home search much like Jan Ullrich.

As far as people confronting him there have some posts on this board and others by people saying they would confront Tyler about his doping and denial much like there were people saying they would show up at Floyd's book signings and heckle him (which as far as I know never happened). As far and Rock and Republic sign Vinoing that was sort a joke since they don't seem shy about signing former dopers or riders linking to scandal (Botero) and I think it would be funny to watch Vino race the NRC crits.

All and all I have to admit all this is getting Ball exactly what he wants I.E. press although you notice not all news outlets care about what he's doing as he might like) and as much as I dislike the team image and Balls behavor I am drawn to watching the drama clearly much like you end up watching a car crash.


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## terzo rene (Mar 23, 2002)

VDB as rider/director would be a good addition. Just keep him away from any shotguns and watch that nobody torches the team car to keep him from talking to the police.


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## ultimobici (Jul 16, 2005)

magnolialover said:


> In response to someone else who posted on here about Millar coming clean, yes, he did. AFTER he got busted. He didn't say anything until the Gendarmes found empty EPO vials in his house. What's worse? Not saying anything, or waiting to say something when you got busted, or just maintaining innocence? I think that in terms of being the same, well, they're both about the same. Millar is praised as being some sort of hero and all, but again, the man didn't come clean, until he was busted. If he had gotten rid of those empty EPO ampules, he would have never had gotten busted, and he would have never admitted anything.


If you get pulled over for speeding/DUI, very few people put their hands up until they have failed the breathalyser test or been shown the film from the in car camera of them speeding. EXACTLY the same concept.


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## magnolialover (Jun 2, 2004)

*Is it?*



ultimobici said:


> If you get pulled over for speeding/DUI, very few people put their hands up until they have failed the breathalyser test or been shown the film from the in car camera of them speeding. EXACTLY the same concept.


Is it? Or do you remember the circumstances surrounding why Millar got busted in the first place? Cofidis was in a spot of turmoil, huge turmoil. There were a bunch of guys on their team that had gotten busted for doping, and or were on the verge of getting busted, and Millar, the whole time, ranting about how doping was bad, and how his teammates had failed him, when the whole time, he had done it as well. Remember also, that Millar had won the world championship in the time trial while he had doped. This would be like me driving drunk, and winning the F1 world championship. It's a little different, and DUI / speeding is a criminal offense, whilst doping in sport is a sporting offense. 

I'm just wondering why people hold up Millar as some prime example of doper makes good, while Hamilton is castigated for doping even though both have served their suspensions, and are free to race if a team will give them a place. I also seem to remember on this very board, when the whole Hamilton thing broke loose, there were so many people on here crying and yelling about how great Hamilton was, and how this was all a sham and a set-up, and that he was innocent. Don't tell me you don't remember the "I Believe Tyler" campaign, and I, was in the minority when I called Hamilton a cheat, and that he should be suspended, and people were yelling at me telling me that I didn't know what I was talking about, but now there seems to be a reversal. I guess maybe it's my Catholic upbringing thinking that people can be forgiven and all. Hamilton AND Millar in my book are both good to go. Again, served their time, and can race once again.


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## Jokull (Aug 13, 2007)

magnolialover said:


> whilst doping in sport is a sporting offense.


Actually, in France (where the offence was committed) doping is a criminal offence.



mangnolialover said:


> I'm just wondering why people hold up Millar as some prime example of doper makes good, while Hamilton is castigated for doping ... I guess maybe it's my Catholic upbringing thinking that people can be forgiven and all.


For me the difference is simple, Millar has confessed (yes yes, there are reasons that led to the confession), whilst Hamilton never has, despite overwhelming evidence. Its difficult to forgive people for sins they haven't confessed to (else, why would Catholics bother going to confession?). Millar deserves extra respect for returning to racing in such a way that he is actually trying to change the doping culture as well (he's invested his own money in Slipstream). All I remember about Hamilton's return to racing last year is that he whined about not being paid enough.


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## magnolialover (Jun 2, 2004)

*I forgot...*



Jokull said:


> Actually, in France (where the offence was committed) doping is a criminal offence.
> 
> 
> 
> For me the difference is simple, Millar has confessed (yes yes, there are reasons that led to the confession), whilst Hamilton never has, despite overwhelming evidence. Its difficult to forgive people for sins they haven't confessed to (else, why would Catholics bother going to confession?). Millar deserves extra respect for returning to racing in such a way that he is actually trying to change the doping culture as well (he's invested his own money in Slipstream). All I remember about Hamilton's return to racing last year is that he whined about not being paid enough.


I did forget about France having criminal codes against doping.

Millar has confessed. Hamilton has not. And again, Hamilton believes, at least in his own little mind, that he didn't dope. I think he did. The evidence suggests that he did, and well, pretty much everyone else thinks that he did as well. Again, he served his time, let him ride. That's my whole point really.

Millar deserves no extra respect, because he's still kind of a whiner, and he was a doper as well, but again, willing to forgive him as well, and judge him on his riding once again.

I did like Hamilton, until I met him one year at Interbike. He was basically and jerk not just to me, but to my girlfriend at the time, and to everyone else there. Millar at least seems like a guy I'd like to hang out with and drink some beers, and talk about the bad old days of his doping years.


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## Jokull (Aug 13, 2007)

magnolialover said:


> he served his time, let him ride. That's my whole point really.
> 
> judge him on his riding once again.


The point about Hamilton is that he's perfectly entitled to race, so if someone wants to give him a job, then no amount of *****ing and whining from us is going to make him go away. It doesn't mean we have to like him though - mainly because I really believe that cycling needs the openly loud and proud 'clean' riders, and even the reformed cheats, more than it needs the deniers, and those who pretend there isn't a problem. That's why I think we should judge riders on more than just their riding now.


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## stevesbike (Jun 3, 2002)

TH will most likely be let go for non-results from Rock Racing. All rider contracts are day to day and can be let go at any time (another one of Ball's 'innovations'). non-performance was as much the reason for being let go from Tinkoff as association with OP (as though that would have surprised anyone). 

There's a reason why these guys dope in the first place--they can't compete otherwise. Combined with sitting out of races a few years, not many guys come back and race at a high level after.


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## Sprocket - Matt (Sep 13, 2005)

Personally I think R&R bringing on the "dopers" is a great move...
Let's make sure that the two most elite teams coming out of the United States covers both end of the spectrum.... 

SLIPSTREAM
= Clean, Lawful, Choir Boys... w/ a mission to bring testing to a new level.

ROCK RACING
= Doping, Lawless, Hell's Angels... with a F*cK YoU attitude asking to be busted...

And then all the other teams we have like HealthNet, or Jelly Belly, or Jittery Joe's, etc etc. can fill in between those two extremes... 

Whatcha Think??? Would it still come down to the racing??? The doping??? The Politics??? or the almighty dollar, or Euro???


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## blackhat (Jan 2, 2003)

Sprocket - Matt said:


> Whatcha Think??? Would it still come down to the racing?


it'll be a short lived show. rocks not gonna get any invites if more of their riders have investigations hovering over them and if they get upheld positives their not going to be riding. it's not a good plan, for rock.


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## Sprocket - Matt (Sep 13, 2005)

Yeah, I know that... But I was just thinking that "The American Way" should prevail for a bit... You know, cover the extremes... And sure, Rock would get the boot in no time for it, but would they win anything at all before the test results, the trials, the appeals and all came back??


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