# HED C2 Rims for Clydesdale



## s.mousseau (Oct 15, 2009)

Hi all,
I'm looking for a new wheelset for my road bike and am going to go the custom route. For hub I am looking at White Industries or possibly Alchemy ELF/ORC if budget allows and get enough feedback for bigger riders.

The C2 rims have caught my eye. Like the idea of the wider rim. So here's the question, how are HED C2 rims for clydes? I noticed that the HED Ardenned CL have a max rider weight of 225lbs with 28/24 spoke count. I will most likely be going with 32/32. Also, are the C2 rims available individually the aluminum or the scandium version?

Some info on me:
6'4"
225-235lbs
ride hard but have never had issues with current wheels 32/32 ultegras to mavic open pros
Don't race, but would like to try.


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## dharrison (Oct 27, 2009)

I'm 6'5'' 250 lbs and have almost the exact build you are considering. C2 rims laced to WI hubs 28/32 with Sapim CX-Rays. They are rock solid and pretty damn light. Not very aero but neither am I. 

For some background on my setup: I've had them for about 1.5 years now and I've used them on two different bikes. They started out on my Specialized Roubaix but now they're on my Colnago CX-1. For tires I've used Vittoria Open Corsas, Vittoria Rubino, and Conti Gatorskins (always 25s).

I absolutely love the C2 rim with Open Corsas. The problem is my usual loop in Chicago is murder on tires and I got sick of replacing $70 tires every month or so when I'd run over glass or a piece of metal or whatever. So, I switched to the Rubinos and absolutely hated them. They made the bike feel dead and unresponsive. Switched to the Gatorskins and find them to have a great balance of durability and ride quality. 

Anyway, you can't really go wrong with this build. Best of luck.


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## valleycyclist (Nov 1, 2009)

I agree with dharrison that 28f/32r should be okay.


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## cydswipe (Mar 7, 2002)

You can talk to Hed directly. I had Hed J9's built in their "Stallion" build for heavier riders. I bet they would build you whatever you wanted. I don't recall seeing Hed rims for sale like Zipp does.


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## ergott (Feb 26, 2006)

I've built that setup for a few riders your size. 28/32 is fine. You have to remember that if a 32 spoke rear is strong enough you don't need as many spokes for the front as they are inherently stronger.

My customers and I chose the Alchemy hubs because they will build into stronger wheels. I use either all Wheelsmith DB14s or a combination of CX-rays and Wheelsmith DB14 spokes for the rear, drive side.

Feedback has been excellent for a rider like you.

@Cycswipe - I know a few reputable wheel builders that can purchase their rims directly from HED. They are also available from QBP so a bike shop can order them as well.

Thanks,
Eric


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## s.mousseau (Oct 15, 2009)

Thanks Everyone. Sounds like I was on the right track with this build.


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## kupe (Sep 20, 2005)

I've got that very build coming in: Alchemy hubs, 28 2x front, 32 3x rear, Hed C2 rims. I go 6'3", 215. Spring can't get here soon enough!


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## Pitts Pilot (Dec 5, 2011)

Will arrive in a few days from Ron Ruff at whitemountain wheels:

Alchemy Hubs
HED C2 Belgiums 18/24
Sapim CX-ray

... am lighter @ 150 - hoping I didn't go too slight - (if I could go back, I'd up the spoke count)


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## rruff (Feb 28, 2006)

Nah... I don't think you'll want more spokes when you ride them... quite solid.


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## Fast Freddy (Mar 4, 2004)

I am 6 foot - 215lbs never had wheel problems before riding - so I'm a light rider (for my size) on wheels. I switched over to a built set of HED Belgian C2 rims with DT 240 hubs built 2 cross front and rear with DT Aerolite spokes 24/28 holes. These wheels are light and roll great - I have about 1500 miles on them, training and races (and I have not touched them ever as far as being true). Great wheels - I am currently running Schwalbe Ultremo ZX on them and they are great. I had a set of Continental Attack/Force tires on there first - the rear 700x24 Force tire looked HUGE on there, but the ride was nice.

Hope this helps
Fred


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## s.mousseau (Oct 15, 2009)

Seems like a popular build! 
@Fast Freddy: i was thinking about the ultremo ZX or DDs. I have always had good luck with schwalbes.

I guess the next question (a little off topic) would be if I should go for aluminum or brass nips at my size. Also, if it helps I will NOT be building myself.


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## Nevermiss (Jun 7, 2011)

I have my C2s laced to Chris King 28F/32R on my EMX 5. About 1,100 miles and no issues at all. I started out at 250 lbs. and now I'm 225. I'm going to get a set of the same when I get a CX bike next Spring. My LBS owner has built wheels for superclydes before and this is what he recommended.

I couldn't be happier.


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## Fast Freddy (Mar 4, 2004)

mine were alloy


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## dcgriz (Feb 13, 2011)

cydswipe said:


> You can talk to Hed directly. I had Hed J9's built in their "Stallion" build for heavier riders. I bet they would build you whatever you wanted. I don't recall seeing Hed rims for sale like Zipp does.


According to a discussion with HED Cycling the Ardennes CL (C2 rims, sonic hubs) with 24f/28r cx-speed laced 2x is suitable for a 245 lbs rider although the written spec calls for 225 lbs. 
The CL will run about $750 while the typical 28f/32r hand built 2x/3x with WI, Alchemy or CK R45 hubs will be around $1050 average plus skewers.
I don't have any personal experience with the CLs and do not know for how long they will stay true underneath a 245 lbs rider but if the guys at HED are speaking the truth, the price difference is substantial and the sonic hubs have good reviews.


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## s.mousseau (Oct 15, 2009)

The other question would be how the HED hubs are compared o something like an achemy. Not sure if that is n even comparision just bsed on price. That being said, I have no knowledge of the HED Hubs. Anyone can chime in on those?


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## dcgriz (Feb 13, 2011)

s.mousseau said:


> The other question would be how the HED hubs are compared o something like an achemy. Not sure if that is n even comparision just bsed on price. That being said, I have no knowledge of the HED Hubs. Anyone can chime in on those?


Alchemy is top shelf, sonic is not but the wheel gets very good reviews on spinning and sealing. Is the difference worth the price? Only you could answer this. 
Fyi, there have been reports on notching the freehub on the sonics.


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## s.mousseau (Oct 15, 2009)

For my own peace of mind I'll take the extra spokes so its a moot point but if I was lighter or more willing to risk a lower spoke count, the Ardenne CLs come in at a very attractive price. 

Next is to save up and find a builder. I know where to start looking for a builder since a couple that were already on my radar chimed in on this thread. thanks!


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## dcgriz (Feb 13, 2011)

That's a safe approach. Both of the builders you are considering have done quite a few HEDs so you should be ok.


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## motobecane69 (Apr 8, 2011)

bikehubstore superwide front hub has same type of dimensions as the alchemy at a MUCH cheaper price point. not sure how much money factors into your decision but if it does it's worth checking into


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## redsled660 (Oct 3, 2011)

Ergott, do you have access to other HED rims? I want a set of FR 6's with different hubs......


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## keppler (May 25, 2007)

How does the A23 compare against the C2? I know the C2 is heavier, is it a better, stronger rim?

Since neither of these rims are aero, how does a 23mm wide rim compare with a box section rim wheelset (same components) for overall performance and comfort? Many are claiming the better ride quality with 23mm rims, less tire pressure needed, but you also need a 25mm tire. I don't see too many LBS here carrying more than 23mm wide tire.

If you're after performance and comfort and not keen on going aero (which tend to be slighly harsher riding rims) are you as well off with a box rim vs a 23mm wide one? Just curious.


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## ergott (Feb 26, 2006)

redsled660 said:


> Ergott, do you have access to other HED rims? I want a set of FR 6's with different hubs......


The only rims available to builders is the C2 "Belgium" series in alloy. The Scandium rims are only drilled in 18 and are only used in front wheels from HED.

The Jet rims that use a fairing wouldn't work because the holes in the fairing are drilled to match the spoke line using their hubs. The Stinger line has their drillings specific to their hubs as well.

-Eric


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## ergott (Feb 26, 2006)

keppler said:


> How does the A23 compare against the C2? I know the C2 is heavier, is it a better, stronger rim?
> 
> Since neither of these rims are aero, how does a 23mm wide rim compare with a box section rim wheelset (same components) for overall performance and comfort? Many are claiming the better ride quality with 23mm rims, less tire pressure needed, but you also need a 25mm tire. I don't see too many LBS here carrying more than 23mm wide tire.
> 
> If you're after performance and comfort and not keen on going aero (which tend to be slighly harsher riding rims) are you as well off with a box rim vs a 23mm wide one? Just curious.


Actually, the HED rims are pretty aero. It is understood that rim shape is more important than depth. I haven't seen a side by side comparison between the Kinlin 30mm and HED's C2 rims in a wind tunnel, but I imagine the HED would fair better than expected in typical yaw angles seen on the bike.

You do not need to use a 25mm tire. 23mm tires work just fine and they measure up 1-2mm in size when mounted on a 23mm rim. That allows you to run lower pressure and I happen to like the ride quality.

The A23 vs. HED rim is a close comparison. I prefer the HED rims because they are more round to start so overall, tension is more even and the wheel ends up more radially true. Also, the brake track is smoother with no "tick" at the seam (many Velocity rims do). That said, I've built a bunch of A23s and they are a fine option to bring the cost of a wheelset down.

Hope that helps.

-Eric


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## danl1 (Jul 23, 2005)

keppler said:


> How does the A23 compare against the C2? I know the C2 is heavier, is it a better, stronger rim?
> 
> Since neither of these rims are aero, how does a 23mm wide rim compare with a box section rim wheelset (same components) for overall performance and comfort? Many are claiming the better ride quality with 23mm rims, less tire pressure needed, but you also need a 25mm tire. I don't see too many LBS here carrying more than 23mm wide tire.
> 
> If you're after performance and comfort and not keen on going aero (which tend to be slighly harsher riding rims) are you as well off with a box rim vs a 23mm wide one? Just curious.


I'll echo Eric a bit. I have A23's with some mileage, and have just added an HED / Powertap rear. The effect of the wider rim is interesting. Because the tire mounts wider, a 23 'acts' like a 25 in terms of air volume, meaning it's equivalently rigid at lower pressure. But because it's still a 23 rather than a 25, there's less meat in the tire, so it's more supple. As a result, there is a double benefit. I find the ride of my a23/23mm setup to be both more comfortable and better-performing than an Open Pro/25mm rig with the same spokes and hubs. I will note that's based only on perception - I haven't done rigid scientific testing, and the differences are small.

Plus, getting rid of the 'lightbulb' shape is better for aerodynamics. A23's aren't terribly efficient, but they're probably better than a standard box for that reason alone. HED has some graphs and data posted on the C2's, and with a 23 mounted it ends up a pretty smooth and symmetrical shape.

The 'aero tend to be harsher' is related to nothing except the rigidity that comes with depth on deep-section rims. That's not the case here, and the tire dynamics more than make up for it.


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## rruff (Feb 28, 2006)

If anyone is getting the wide rims to "ride better" by reducing pressure... well sure... that will work with any rim and tire. If you aren't getting pinch flats then give that a try. I see no reason why the wide rim would cause the tire to ride better at the same pressure... or pinch flat less. It seems impossible that you'd get both at the same time, since they work against each other. Maybe handle a little better with low pressure.


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## samh (May 5, 2004)

*c2 rim*



rruff said:


> If anyone is getting the wide rims to "ride better" by reducing pressure... well sure... that will work with any rim and tire. If you aren't getting pinch flats then give that a try. I see no reason why the wide rim would cause the tire to ride better at the same pressure... or pinch flat less. It seems impossible that you'd get both at the same time, since they work against each other. Maybe handle a little better with low pressure.


For me, I feel a 10psi difference. Not worth it. ($111 rim)


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## samh (May 5, 2004)

*c2 rim*

"
Some info on me:
6'4"
225-235lbs
ride hard but have never had issues with current wheels 32/32 ultegras to mavic open pros
Don't race, but would like to try.[/QUOTE]

Slightly different, but 1 experience
http://forums.roadbikereview.com/wheels-tires/cracked-hed-ardennes-226960.html


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## danl1 (Jul 23, 2005)

rruff said:


> If anyone is getting the wide rims to "ride better" by reducing pressure... well sure... that will work with any rim and tire. If you aren't getting pinch flats then give that a try. I see no reason why the wide rim would cause the tire to ride better at the same pressure... or pinch flat less. It seems impossible that you'd get both at the same time, since they work against each other. Maybe handle a little better with low pressure.


Yes and no. The trick of it is that it effectively 'tricks' a 23 into thinking it's a 25. What I mean is, while there's still the same amount of rubber, there's more air volume. Greater air volume allows for the same relative resilience despite lower pressure. The reasoning then, is that you are getting the advantage that moving to a 25 allows, without the 25's extra weight or reduced suppleness. You are also optimizing the shape, decreasing sideroll (so helping handling) and somewhat reducing the chance of pinch flats (as a question of geometry, independent of the pressure question.)

That also means that at the same pressure, the ride on the wider rim would actually be somewhat _worse._ But it would roll better, at least wrt hysteresis 

All pretty tiny changes, though.


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## rruff (Feb 28, 2006)

I guess the width of my Stan's 340 is tricking my 20mm tire into thinking it is a 22mm tire... all the same magic, but on a narrower rim! 

Seriously, I don't think the tires are being "tricked" into providing a better ride or more suppleness. The volume does go up a little, but not to the size of a 25mm tire... which BTW is not less supple than a 23mm if it uses the same casing... actually the opposite. 

The handling argument makes some sense. But in summer I regularly "race" down a long switchback descent with crappy pavement, and I never noticed strange behavior from the tires with my 18.5mm wide Kinlin rims.


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## dcgriz (Feb 13, 2011)

IMO, the main appeal of the wide rim of the HED C2 is that it offers a sturdy rim appropriate of a clyde's weight and power. The discussion about more air, less air etc I am sure it has some merit on paper but not so sure if it's detectable by most of us and certainly by me in real life conditions. 
I plan to put Conti GP 4000 25's on mine when they arrive because that's what I use on all my wheels, then I'll blow them to 95 psi front and 100 psi rear as I do with all of my wheels.
I read all the discussions about aero profiles with the 23 mm rim and 23 mm tire, straight sidewalls and the like but I find it amusing talking about aero tire profile while a 240 lb guy, most probably in a not so racey position, is riding on them.
Just saying......


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## Fast Freddy (Mar 4, 2004)

The wider rims do make the tires appear wider... I was running Continental Attack22mm/Force24mm tires on older Zipp 404's before I switched to the Hed Belgian C2 rim. I really liked the wheels when I got them - looked good - still light - and now had 240s hubs which I knew were reliable. Then I put my tires on - didn't notice anything until I put them on my bike - If by looking at the bike I would have guessed the 24 rear tire to be a 28 touring tire... it was ridiculous.... that bugged me. I finally wore those out and went with the Schwalbe Ultermo 23 and it looks similar to a 25 but definitely much bigger than the 23 on a standard 19-20mm wide rim.

FF


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## deadleg (Jan 26, 2005)

I am very happy with my A23 on WI hubs. I use a low tire pressure and they feel very nice in turns. nice ride on 23's.


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