# How long do Shimano hydraulic road disc pads last?



## wgscott (Jul 14, 2013)

I've been riding very roughly 100 miles per week on a new bike since the end of May. The rear pads are completely worn down. Admittedly I am clinging to the brakes like a gerbil on greased teflon because (a) I am afraid of re-breaking my ankle, (b) I live and ride in a very hilly area, and (c) I suck at biking, and have been riding the rear brake too much. Nonetheless, this struck me as rather quick, since my mountain bike pads seem to last about six years.


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## Wafa (Aug 22, 2014)

It's said that they would probably not last as long as solid steel ones.


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## Srode (Aug 19, 2012)

My rain bike has discs and the pads are pretty worn now after about 1400 miles on it, but the pads are used in the wet mostly so wear quicker. I've heard cross bikes can burn up a set in a weekend easily. Your bike has probably similar miles to mine from your comments, seems pretty quick but if you are riding the brakes a lot it's going to wear them quicker obviously - so it's not unbelievable they are in need of replacement to me.


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## cxwrench (Nov 9, 2004)

As Kerry would ask, "how long is a piece of string?"

There is no way to answer your question because it's so dependent on so many different things. One thing you really need to get away from is using the rear brake so much. All you're really accomplishing is wearing out pads much faster than you should. The rear brake has very little power compared to the front. As soon as you use either brake, some of your weight transfers to the front wheel, it's variable and depends on speed and braking force. A really good way to illustrate weight transfer is go ride a full suspension mtb and grab the front brake. Watch the fork compress and the shock extend. The front brake slows you down wayyyyyyy more quickly and effectively than the rear. Use it when you need it, then let it go. Use it in a straight line...this means knowing where you're going and when to brake as well as when not to.


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## wgscott (Jul 14, 2013)

Yeah, I clearly need to brake more evenly. Unfortunately, it is a completely irrational fear response. Oddly, I don't seem to do this on my squishy mtn bike.

I'm over-doing it mostly on 10% grades, which pretty much includes all the local roads in my neighborhood. (I live near a place where Lance Armstrong fell off his bike.)


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## Maximus_XXIV (Nov 10, 2008)

wgscott said:


> Yeah, I clearly need to brake more evenly. Unfortunately, it is a completely irrational fear response. Oddly, I don't seem to do this on my squishy mtn bike.
> 
> I'm over-doing it mostly on 10% grades, which pretty much includes all the local roads in my neighborhood. (I live near a place where Lance Armstrong fell off his bike.)


I hear France is nice.


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## wgscott (Jul 14, 2013)

Yeah, but I don't like cheese and am running low on white flags at the moment.


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## Special Eyes (Feb 2, 2011)

Two things:

1. Learn to ride more confidently and give your brakes a rest.

2. Pads are cheap, replace them when you need to and stop worrying about these little things.


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## froze (Sep 15, 2002)

They'll last anywhere from 100 miles to 1250 miles depending on riding conditions and quality of pad. Not bad huh? actually that's quite bad considering that rim pads easily last 5 times longer and cost 3 times less to replace.


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## velominati (Nov 23, 2011)

Make sure that you bed the pads in properly too. That makes a huge difference to longevity.


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## froze (Sep 15, 2002)

velominati said:


> Make sure that you bed the pads in properly too. That makes a huge difference to longevity.


This is how it's done: Workshop: How to bed in disc brake pads - BikeRadar

In addition to this clean the brakes regularly, see: Quick and Easy Disc Brake Clean - mtbtips.com


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## OldChipper (May 15, 2011)

Oh wait... you mean disk brakes don't last as long, cost more, and require special installation procedures??? I thought they were so much better than rim brakes???


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## froze (Sep 15, 2002)

OldChipper said:


> Oh wait... you mean disk brakes don't last as long, cost more, and require special installation procedures??? I thought they were so much better than rim brakes???


Ehh, no! The only real thing disk brakes are good for are MTB riders who get good and sloppy while riding.


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## Srode (Aug 19, 2012)

froze said:


> Ehh, no! The only real thing disk brakes are good for are MTB riders who get good and sloppy while riding.


They are much better than rim brakes in the rain on a road bike, dry pavement not as good. They also don't wear out the brake track like rim brakes, rotors are cheap.


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## froze (Sep 15, 2002)

Srode said:


> They are much better than rim brakes in the rain on a road bike, dry pavement not as good. They also don't wear out the brake track like rim brakes, rotors are cheap.


The rotors only last about 2 years if you're an average rider, plus the pad issue. A rim will last easily 40,000 miles. So lets say you ride an average of 2,500 miles a year, that's 16 years on a rim. So in that 16 years you would have to replace the rotor (just figure one wheel here and simply times it by two to get both) that would be 8 rotors in 16 years or $280 for an average $35 per rotor; now add in the average cost of the pads of about $15 and they last an average of 1200 miles or 33 pads or $495 in pads. That's $775 in brake parts over 40,000 miles, I doubt the average cyclist spends $775 per rim. Now how long does rim pads last, Salmon Kool Stops will last at least 10,000 miles and probably a lot longer but lets go with 10,000 and at $14 which mounts to only $56 in brake parts over 40,000 miles.

But we left out one important fact, disk brakes require a lot more attention than rim brakes. Rim brakes also have a far better mechanical advantage since the entire rim is the rotor and thus heat is dissipated faster, less stress on spokes which means less tinkering with adjusting spokes or replacing broken ones, no risk of overheating your hubs bearings. Disk brakes almost always have a constant degree of rubbing because the rotors are not perfectly trued and the pads are very close to the rotors so that they will rub on the high spots. And you can't just put disk brakes on any bike, you have to get a beefier fork, redish the wheels. In the long run rim brakes will cost less and have less hassles, again there are exceptions like the MTB or Cross bike rider who gets very mucky while riding.


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## wgscott (Jul 14, 2013)

If I didn't live in a mountainous area, I probably wouldn't have bothered with discs. I ride this thing both on and off road, FWIW.


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## wgscott (Jul 14, 2013)

froze said:


> This is how it's done: Workshop: How to bed in disc brake pads - BikeRadar
> 
> In addition to this clean the brakes regularly, see: Quick and Easy Disc Brake Clean - mtbtips.com



Thanks for the links, especially the last one.


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## froze (Sep 15, 2002)

wgscott said:


> If I didn't live in a mountainous area, I probably wouldn't have bothered with discs. I ride this thing both on and off road, FWIW.


Wrong reason! I use to live in S California and rode a lot of mountain roads from San Bernardino National Forest mountains to Idyllwild area to Angeles National Forest mountains to Los Padres National Forest mountains and never had an issue with rim brakes and neither did any of my racing and riding buddies. But so what you scream? will then don't consider what I've done instead consider all the pro racers who raced faster than I did down steeper mountain roads than I did all over Europe for many many years and never did mass pro riders go plummeting off those mountain roads due to "bad" rim brakes, in fact I could not find one incident where a pro racer lost his life due to brake failure. In fact you take a good chance of frying your hub bearings from the heat of the disk!

All I'm saying is that using the excuse of riding in a mountainous area is pure rubbish to buy disk brakes, you bought into a bunch of hype is all you've done. Now there is an issue with carbon wheels that could get too hot and rim brakes go into a fade type of problem, or the rims delaminate which supposedly has been cured by name brand CF wheels, not so much for the cheap generic Chinese made ones.

Also don't buy into the marketing hype you can stop faster with disk brakes vs rim brakes because it simply is not true. The real factor in how fast you stop is entirely wrapped up in tire adhesion to the road, and in that involves the tire, PSI, road surface, weather conditions, rider and bike weight. A friend and I got into this one time when he told me that dual pivot brakes that he has stop faster than my old style single pivot (remember that debate? similar to this one!) We discovered that they both stopped in the same distance even with us using different tires but same 23 width (we even swapped bikes to see if a different rider would have different result). If any of you have disk brakes and knows someone with rim brakes that use the same width tires try the experiment and see for yourself.


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## cxwrench (Nov 9, 2004)

froze said:


> Wrong reason! I use to live in S California and rode a lot of mountain roads from San Bernardino National Forest mountains to Idyllwild area to Angeles National Forest mountains to Los Padres National Forest mountains and never had an issue with rim brakes and neither did any of my racing and riding buddies. But so what you scream? will then don't consider what I've done instead consider all the pro racers who raced faster than I did down steeper mountain roads than I did all over Europe for many many years and never did mass pro riders go plummeting off those mountain roads due to "bad" rim brakes, in fact I could not find one incident where a pro racer lost his life due to brake failure. In fact you take a good chance of frying your hub bearings from the heat of the disk!
> 
> All I'm saying is that using the excuse of riding in a mountainous area is pure rubbish to buy disk brakes, you bought into a bunch of hype is all you've done. Now there is an issue with carbon wheels that could get too hot and rim brakes go into a fade type of problem, or the rims delaminate which supposedly has been cured by name brand CF wheels, not so much for the cheap generic Chinese made ones.
> 
> Also don't buy into the marketing hype you can stop faster with disk brakes vs rim brakes because it simply is not true. The real factor in how fast you stop is entirely wrapped up in tire adhesion to the road, and in that involves the tire, PSI, road surface, weather conditions, rider and bike weight. A friend and I got into this one time when he told me that dual pivot brakes that he has stop faster than my old style single pivot (remember that debate? similar to this one!) We discovered that they both stopped in the same distance even with us using different tires but same 23 width (we even swapped bikes to see if a different rider would have different result). If any of you have disk brakes and knows someone with rim brakes that use the same width tires try the experiment and see for yourself.


You've obviously never ridden the new Shimano hydro discs. I don't own them, but I've spent some time on them and they are more powerful. And you can use it. With less effort and fantastic control. I'm not on a mission to get a new bike that has them, but holy sh*t...they really work well. 

It's the same argument you see w/ cars and motorcycles. The armchair physists saying that if you have enough power to lock up the wheel, you can't stop any quicker no matter what you do. You don't need any more power if you can lock up the wheel. 

It's really complete crap. Every new car and motorcycle generation has had more powerful brakes that are _more easily modulated_. That's the key element...more control. You are definitely limited by traction, but if you have more power that is easily controlled, you will be able to slow down more consistently all the way down a descent and also for multiple descents. 

There is no way in hell I'd ride a bike w/ BRS200 brakes when I could ride one w/ hydro discs. Sure, they'll both lock up the wheel, but you're completely brain dead if you can't see the advantage of the better brake.

Look at CX racers. They'd be the last guys on earth you'd think would want or need disc brakes. Not much traction...pretty moderate speeds...very few if any descents at all. But despite all that, probably 80% of the elite cx racers in the US are using disc brake bikes. Huh. Wonder why?


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## froze (Sep 15, 2002)

cxwrench said:


> you've obviously never ridden the new shimano hydro discs. I don't own them, but i've spent some time on them and they are more powerful. And you can use it. With less effort and fantastic control. I'm not on a mission to get a new bike that has them, but holy sh*t...they really work well.
> 
> It's the same argument you see w/ cars and motorcycles. The armchair physists saying that if you have enough power to lock up the wheel, you can't stop any quicker no matter what you do. You don't need any more power if you can lock up the wheel.
> 
> ...


bs...


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## skinewmexico (Apr 19, 2010)

Replace the pads, learn to use the front brake more.


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## aclinjury (Sep 12, 2011)

cxwrench said:


> You've obviously never ridden the new Shimano hydro discs. I don't own them, but I've spent some time on them and they are more powerful. And you can use it. With less effort and fantastic control. I'm not on a mission to get a new bike that has them, but holy sh*t...they really work well.
> 
> It's the same argument you see w/ cars and motorcycles. The armchair physists saying that if you have enough power to lock up the wheel, you can't stop any quicker no matter what you do. You don't need any more power if you can lock up the wheel.
> 
> ...


CX guys want disc because of their dirty environment they operate in, not because of speedy descents. Cmon now CX, you know this. In addition, there's also the marketing push of the industry to use disc.


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## aclinjury (Sep 12, 2011)

froze said:


> Wrong reason! I use to live in S California and rode a lot of mountain roads from San Bernardino National Forest mountains to Idyllwild area to Angeles National Forest mountains to Los Padres National Forest mountains and never had an issue with rim brakes and neither did any of my racing and riding buddies. But so what you scream? will then don't consider what I've done instead consider all the pro racers who raced faster than I did down steeper mountain roads than I did all over Europe for many many years and never did mass pro riders go plummeting off those mountain roads due to "bad" rim brakes, in fact I could not find one incident where a pro racer lost his life due to brake failure. In fact you take a good chance of frying your hub bearings from the heat of the disk!
> 
> All I'm saying is that using the excuse of riding in a mountainous area is pure rubbish to buy disk brakes, you bought into a bunch of hype is all you've done. Now there is an issue with carbon wheels that could get too hot and rim brakes go into a fade type of problem, or the rims delaminate which supposedly has been cured by name brand CF wheels, not so much for the cheap generic Chinese made ones.
> 
> Also don't buy into the marketing hype you can stop faster with disk brakes vs rim brakes because it simply is not true. The real factor in how fast you stop is entirely wrapped up in tire adhesion to the road, and in that involves the tire, PSI, road surface, weather conditions, rider and bike weight. A friend and I got into this one time when he told me that dual pivot brakes that he has stop faster than my old style single pivot (remember that debate? similar to this one!) We discovered that they both stopped in the same distance even with us using different tires but same 23 width (we even swapped bikes to see if a different rider would have different result). If any of you have disk brakes and knows someone with rim brakes that use the same width tires try the experiment and see for yourself.


Rim brakes were and still are GREAT if the rims are aluminum. Sadly, due to the push to *carbon clincher wheels*, rim brakes do suck in certain situations, e.g., wet, dirty, and steep (not necessarily long) descents. In the old days, guys were riding aluminum rims, so they never had issues with rim braking.


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## aclinjury (Sep 12, 2011)

OP,

here are a few suggestions.

1. switch to semi-metallic or metallic pads. The more metallic content a pad has, the longer it will last,... however,.. however,.. pads with high metallic content will squeak and scream much much frequently and lounder than organic resin pads. In the mtb or cx world, these noises don't matter or people don't care, but on a roadie application, too much noise is frown upon. I'm betting that your pads are organic.

2. use larger rotor. Larger rotor will dissipate heat better, therefore allowing your pads to run cooler. Cooler temps is more important for organic pads than metallic pads. Organic pads tend to wear out exponentially quicker as the temperature rises quickly. However, running larger rotor may not be a choice for you due to equipment compatiblity.


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## cxwrench (Nov 9, 2004)

froze said:


> bs...





aclinjury said:


> CX guys want disc because of their dirty environment they operate in, not because of speedy descents. Cmon now CX, you know this. In addition, there's also the marketing push of the industry to use disc.


Wrong. CX racers use them because they can spend more time going fast and less time slowing down. Same reason anyone else wants more powerful brakes. The only time they suck is in truly awful conditions when the pads wear out completely in about half a race. 

@froze...before you continue to come across as a luddite you should go out and spend some time on them. As with many things bicycle you can't just argue physics here. Pro road racers weren't 'plummeting off descents' because they'd slow down before corners just like anyone. It would just take longer and require more effort. 

I'm pretty sure that road racers will never go to discs, I've posted this repeatedly. It has everything to do w/ logistics and not much else. That's not to say they don't actually work better than the best current rim brakes. Which they do.


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## FastWayne (May 20, 2014)

I have rim brakes, but I will get disc on next frame. I don't like rim brakes in heavy fog nor rain. I also have damaged alloy rims from over heating. disc dissipate heat more efficiently. Each to his own liking. I like disc brakes. nuff said.


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## OldChipper (May 15, 2011)

FastWayne said:


> disc dissipate heat more efficiently.


Dissipate heat more efficiently? As evidenced by the fact that the rotors become red hot? In the immortal words of Inigo Montoya: "I don't think that word means what you think it means."


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## cxwrench (Nov 9, 2004)

OldChipper said:


> Dissipate heat more efficiently? As evidenced by the fact that the rotors become red hot? In the immortal words of Inigo Montoya: "I don't think that word means what you think it means."


Tell me about the last time you saw a rotor on a bicycle get 'red' hot.


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## OldChipper (May 15, 2011)

cxwrench said:


> Tell me about the last time you saw a rotor on a bicycle get 'red' hot.


OK, to be fair, *I* have not, but that's one of the concerns about using them in the pro peloton, and it's just basic physics. You're dissipating the same amount of energy over a vastly smaller surface area and arguably over a shorter time (that's one of the touted advantages of disks i.e. you can brake later going into a turn); the rotors HAVE to get *hot*.


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## tlg (May 11, 2011)

OldChipper said:


> Dissipate heat more efficiently? As evidenced by the fact that the rotors become red hot?


Steel/Stainless steel begins to turn red ~800-1000°F. Cherry red, as I believe you're imagining, occurs ~1500°F. 


In the immortal words of Inigo Montoya: "I don't think that word means what you think it means."


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## cxwrench (Nov 9, 2004)

OldChipper said:


> OK, to be fair, *I* have not, but that's one of the concerns about using them in the pro peloton, and it's just basic physics. You're dissipating the same amount of energy over a vastly smaller surface area and arguably over a shorter time (that's one of the touted advantages of disks i.e. you can brake later going into a turn); the rotors HAVE to get *hot*.


So...how about the last time you heard about a mountain bike racer getting horrifically burned after crashing and getting bbq'd by a rotor?


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## froze (Sep 15, 2002)

OldChipper said:


> OK, to be fair, *I* have not, but that's one of the concerns about using them in the pro peloton, and it's just basic physics. You're dissipating the same amount of energy over a vastly smaller surface area and arguably over a shorter time (that's one of the touted advantages of disks i.e. you can brake later going into a turn); the rotors HAVE to get *hot*.


Actually this is so wrong it isn't funny. Rim brakes come into contact with the rim, when the pads activate against the rim the rim becomes a giant disk brake; the rim has more surface area (larger thermal mass) then a rotor and thus will not get anywhere near as hot as the rotors will. For MTBing you're not going to be going 50 mph plus down a mud mixed with wet leaves on a dirt trail so the heat generated will be less, combined with the mud factor the disk will work best in those type of situations, but not for road bikes. This is the reason why tandem road bike manufacture will not embrace disk brakes. Read more about the tandem issue here: Tandem Brakes
Disc brakes problems on road bikes


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## cxwrench (Nov 9, 2004)

froze said:


> Actually this is so wrong it isn't funny. Rim brakes come into contact with the rim, when the pads activate against the rim the rim becomes a giant disk brake; the rim has more surface area (larger thermal mass) then a rotor and thus will not get anywhere near as hot as the rotors will. For MTBing you're not going to be going 50 mph plus down a mud mixed with wet leaves on a dirt trail so the heat generated will be less, combined with the mud factor the disk will work best in those type of situations, but not for road bikes. This is the reason why tandem road bike manufacture will not embrace disk brakes. Read more about the tandem issue here: Tandem Brakes
> Disc brakes problems on road bikes


Reading comprehension FTW. What OldChipper was saying is that disc rotors get much hotter than rims, which is what your argument is. His point is that this is dangerous. 

My point is that there are plenty of long downhills done on mountain bikes that get rotor temps very high...easily high enough to burn skin. But, even if they get that hot I've never seen anyone get burned by a rotor in a crash.


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## FastWayne (May 20, 2014)

I went for a ride today in Palos Verdes, I really notice the lack of braking with my rim brakes. I have Ultegra brakes, with Kswiss pads. Two weeks ago I adjusted the pad tow out, sanded the pads an the rims. I had great brakes, but that only lasted a couple of weeks. I'll re sand the rims and pads; p


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## tlg (May 11, 2011)

cxwrench said:


> My point is that there are plenty of long downhills done on mountain bikes that get rotor temps very high...easily high enough to burn skin. But, even if they get that hot I've never seen anyone get burned by a rotor in a crash.


If I'm going downhill (road or MTB) at speeds fast enough to get a rotor that hot, the last thing I'm worried about in a crash is getting burnt. I'll be worried about survival.


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## froze (Sep 15, 2002)

cxwrench said:


> Reading comprehension FTW. What OldChipper was saying is that disc rotors get much hotter than rims, which is what your argument is. His point is that this is dangerous.
> 
> My point is that there are plenty of long downhills done on mountain bikes that get rotor temps very high...easily high enough to burn skin. But, even if they get that hot I've never seen anyone get burned by a rotor in a crash.


Just as I have never seen anyone get burned by a rim in a crash either...but that wasn't my point, the point was that disk brakes on a road bike is completely unnecessary, and are not as effective at stopping a road bike at high speeds or repeated slowing down efforts as would occur in mountain riding due to the smaller surface of the rotor to dissipate heat as compared to a rim, not to mention the higher cost to maintain disk brakes as I mentioned earlier.


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## cxwrench (Nov 9, 2004)

froze said:


> Just as I have never seen anyone get burned by a rim in a crash either...but that wasn't my point, the point was that disk brakes on a road bike is completely unnecessary, and are not as effective at stopping a road bike at high speeds or repeated slowing down efforts as would occur in mountain riding due to the smaller surface of the rotor to dissipate heat as compared to a rim, not to mention the higher cost to maintain disk brakes as I mentioned earlier.


"Not as effective" due to "smaller surface area and repeated slowing down efforts"? You don't even remotely understand the theory behind disc brakes, do you? The whole reason for their existence is that they stop better and more consistently and remove the rim (which really should only exist as a place to mount a tire) from the brake system. No...disc brakes are not 'necessary' on a road bike but they are definitely an improvement on rim brakes, for many reasons. This opinion is coming from someone that has argued long and hard that they won't be used for racing. But they still work better than anything else I've ever used. You can NOT argue that fact. 

You are exhibiting the classic "armchair expert" opinion of someone that really has nothing other than personal experience to fall back on. Do you really think that all of the companies making disc brakes would have gone through all of the trouble engineering, manufacturing, convincing the industry to change long-used standards and all the other hassle involved if the product was at least a little bit better? Why have cars, trucks, planes, motorcycles...virtually everything that has wheels and brakes, gone away from rim and/or drum brakes? Is it all just a big hoax? Completely unneeded? 

It's not just about power. W/ increased power and a properly engineered system you get more control and you get it w/ less effort. Being efficient is all about conserving effort, which is what we're all trying to do.


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## froze (Sep 15, 2002)

cxwrench said:


> "Not as effective" due to "smaller surface area and repeated slowing down efforts"? You don't even remotely understand the theory behind disc brakes, do you? The whole reason for their existence is that they stop better and more consistently and remove the rim (which really should only exist as a place to mount a tire) from the brake system. No...disc brakes are not 'necessary' on a road bike but they are definitely an improvement on rim brakes, for many reasons. This opinion is coming from someone that has argued long and hard that they won't be used for racing. But they still work better than anything else I've ever used. You can NOT argue that fact.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


You're the one that doesn't understand, I even went as far at to post facts that come from numerous studies compiled into 2 blogs concerning it from pro riders which I can tell you never bothered to read. So if you're not going to bother to read the facts then there is no reason to bother replying to you.

motor vehicles are not the same as a bike...duh!


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## cxwrench (Nov 9, 2004)

froze said:


> You're the one that doesn't understand, I even went as far at to post facts that come from numerous studies compiled into 2 blogs concerning it from pro riders which I can tell you never bothered to read. So if you're not going to bother to read the facts then there is no reason to bother replying to you.
> 
> motor vehicles are not the same as a bike...duh!


'Duh'? What are you...12 years old? 

No, motor vehicles are not the same as bikes, but the physics behind stopping a wheeled vehicle are the same no matter what size it is. If you had any clue at all you'd understand this. 
A road bike has much more traction than a mountain bike and thus can better utilize the increased stopping power of a disc brake. A road bike can routinely and easily hit and sustain higher speeds than a mountain bike. Why on earth would you not want the most efficient and controllable brakes you could have? You come across like an ignorant technophobe when you make your 'expert' argument. 

Keep trying.


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## RaptorTC (Jul 20, 2012)

froze said:


> You're the one that doesn't understand, I even went as far at to post facts that come from numerous studies compiled into 2 blogs concerning it from pro riders which I can tell you never bothered to read. So if you're not going to bother to read the facts then there is no reason to bother replying to you.


So your tandem link claims. "Much more braking power can be applied with the rim brake (about 10 times more, thanks to the miracle of leverage)". Ok, so its saying rim brakes are 10x more powerful. Which...no. 
and
"Discs brakes on bicycles are not new technology, they just became more popular when mountain bikers started using them in the last few years." Last few years? How old is that article? Certainly older than the current crop of hydro road disc brakes
One of the group rides I go to has 2 couples on tandems. Both are on disc brake setups. Hmmm.

In the end, just go ride a hydro disc bike then come back and tell us that they don't provide any advantages with a straight face.


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## tlg (May 11, 2011)

cxwrench said:


> 'Duh'? What are you...12 years old?
> 
> No, motor vehicles are not the same as bikes, but the physics behind stopping a wheeled vehicle are the same no matter what size it is. If you had any clue at all you'd understand this.


A motorcycle is pretty darn close to a bicycle. 



RaptorTC said:


> So your tandem link claims. "Much more braking power can be applied with the rim brake (about 10 times more, thanks to the miracle of leverage)". Ok, so its saying rim brakes are 10x more powerful. Which...no.


If rim brakes are 10x more powerful... I wonder when motorcycles will migrate from disc brakes to the superior rim brake.


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