# LeMond has now gone off the deep end



## slamy (Mar 15, 2004)

I was a big LeMond fan. Unlike most of the people on here I actually watched his victory in 1986 on tv and still have the vhs cassette to prove it. But this kind of crap is just nuts. I know he hates Armstrong, but he is calling him out in a French paper. 

"In a veiled reference to seven-time winner Lance Armstrong, long dogged by doping allegations, LeMond added: "I hope that (Landis) won't do what another American did: Deny, deny, deny"

read the whole article

http://sports.yahoo.com/sc/news;_yl...5nYcB?slug=ap-landis-lemond&prov=ap&type=lgns


----------



## desmo13 (Jun 28, 2006)

maybe he meant some other american?

I was around and interested back then too. Seems I havnt heard anything positive from him for so long, and now he is all over the news with negativity. Well, like the Dixie Chicks, Darryl Hannah, and everyone else. He is entitled to his opinion, and more fortunate than us to have the credentials to get his opinion distributed.


----------



## randyg (Jul 7, 2004)

Lemond is the Al Sharpton of cycling. Or maybe that's Jesse Jackson. Every time there is some controversy, he can be found in print and on TV running his mouth.:mad2: All he is worth to the news media is a good sound bite. Period! That's it. They're just using him and he loves it cause it gets him a few minutes of exposure.

He makes me sick. And I WAS a fan back when.


----------



## goose127 (Jun 9, 2004)

I am not sure what he thinks he is gaining by doing this. Greg is still a big name, regardless of the Landis outcome he could do more for cycling by helping promote races and the sport. Instead he seems hell bent on ruining Lance.


----------



## Magsdad (Jun 29, 2005)

*Greg, I totally agree.*

This has had a week to stew around in everyone's mind. You are sick and tired of people like Floyd, constantly saying one things, then saying another. The truth is healthy, and in this case, must be spoken. It is time for Landis to come out and say the words we all know he wants, needs, MUST say:

"I - did not - have sexual relations - with that woman."


----------



## lancerracer (Nov 22, 2004)

I feel that in Gregs mind he is the only great american cyclist (atleast tdf winner) and he will do anything to try and put the other two winners (landis and armstrong) down....


----------



## bmp956 (Oct 27, 2005)

"It is cycling as a professional sport that represents the problem. It can transform someone into a liar."

Gee, Greg, you are quite the booster to the sport you profess to care so much about. As a past fan of your accomplishments I can now say I have zero respect for you as a human being. Doesn't take away your past greatness, just have to accept you for the lunkhead you've become. Way to go, bud.


----------



## lushmd (Jun 29, 2006)

Perhaps he meant Tyler Hamilton?


----------



## Argentius (Aug 26, 2004)

I think so too, though it doesn't make him any less of an azzhat.


----------



## stamp adams (Apr 16, 2006)

Dear Greg,

Well, I think you have finally done it. With this latest poorly vieled attack on Armstrong you will have turned all remaining American fans against you. What were you thinking? The "Father of American Cycling", the position that you hope people recognize YOU as holding, has the responsibility to support all American riders. YOU have no knowledge of whether or not the recent TdF winners have been doping, so to suggest so in the press now is a most irresponsible act. While others say you have a right to voice your opinion, I disagree. Because of your esteemed position in the sport, you must be held to a higher standard. Armstrong is the only person to challange you for the position you want. With this slanderest accusation, you have exhibited the same "win-at-any-cost" mentality that those riders who cheat exhibit. So for me, YOU have destroyed any claim to be Father of American Cycliing, and with this accusation, YOU have become nothing more than any of long list of atheletes who excelled in their sport for a brief time in history. I hope to hear no more of you forever.

A former fan, Stamp


----------



## Guest (Jul 30, 2006)

Too many lead pellets in his body I guess, they are really catching up with him...


----------



## stevesbike (Jun 3, 2002)

I'd really like to see Landis cleared of these accusations, and I've posted before that I think the UCI was really inappropriate in making any disclosure about his A sample. Lemond is contributing to the tradition of cyclists being tried by the public, while he should also be sticking up for cyclists' rights for due process.

That being said, the reality is that it's almost a certainty that the B sample will come back positive. WADA supervised almost 2,000 confirmed positive T/E tests in 2005, so the probability (based here on frequency, which is number of b tests positive/total number of a samples positive) is high that the B sample will be positive. 

It is also highly likely that the A sample has been submitted to an IRMS test (the isotope test that determines whether testosterone is exogenous). In examining the WADA technical document on T/E procedure for labs, it recommends an elevated T/E test be submitted to the IRMS test during the screening procedure. If these results are ambiguous, then the recommendation is to do follow up longitudinal testing, or test samples from previous controls to establish baseline levels and assess the chance of the elevated level being natural. However, if the IRMS test determines the source is exogenous, then as far as WADA is concerned, it's the end of the line. That's it-game over. French and German media report the leak from the lab stating this has been established with the A sample. Lemond is basing his statements on those reports. In terms of respecting procedures, he should wait until the B sample is reported, but the sad reality is that unless there's a whole lot of misinformation coming from that lab, it's going to be devastating news from the B sample results. The best possible scenario is that there is not unambiguous findings from the IRMS test, in which case the onus on Landis will be to show the fluctuations are naturally ocurring, which is the case others have made in the past. If its not unambiguous, then Landis has to show the compound is the result of some medication he was taking, although he has already stated that there was no specific medication during that period in question.


----------



## SwitchMonkey (Jul 20, 2005)

Shoot first, ask questions later. Lemond is like a little robot for the French cycling press. I'm so disappointed in this guy I can't stand it. He constantly accuses Armstrong of doping, but there is never proof, now he has Landis guilty of doping and there has not even been a test of the B sample. Greg has definately gone off the deep end with his constant bashing of American cyclists. 

I wouldn't ride a Lemond bike if you gave it to me.


----------



## 867-5309 (Oct 7, 2005)

*Watch it*



Magsdad said:


> This has had a week to stew around in everyone's mind. You are sick and tired of people like Floyd, constantly saying one things, then saying another. The truth is healthy, and in this case, must be spoken. It is time for Landis to come out and say the words we all know he wants, needs, MUST say:
> 
> "I - did not - have sexual relations - with that woman."


This is going to wind up in the PO forum.

Lemond is a fat, pus-filled gasbag who doesn't ride. Floyd may be guilty, but that does not excuse Lemonheads classless act.

And, the words that might also be said, that everyone needs to hear...

"......We know where they are. They're in the area around Tikrit and 
Baghdad and east, west, south, and north somewhat .... " Don Rumesfeld

and

"We found the weapons of mass destruction. We found biological 
laboratories -- And we'll find more weapons as time goes on. But for 
those who say we haven't found the banned manufacturing devices or 
banned weapons, they're wrong, we found them ......" 
--- George W. Bush, Washington, D.C., May 30, 2003


----------



## Magsdad (Jun 29, 2005)

867-5309 said:


> This is going to wind up in the PO forum.
> 
> Lemond is a fat, pus-filled gasbag who doesn't ride. Floyd may be guilty, but that does not excuse Lemonheads classless act.
> 
> ...


Trust me, no Bush love here. Just thought this was more "humorous". :thumbsup: 

As for the quotes above: :mad2:


----------



## MidPack (Jul 30, 2006)

*Lemond Bikes*

That's funny. I just bought a new (Trek) bike this week and my current (Specialized) bike was bought in 2004. Both times at two different stores, they also carried the Lemond bike lines. I remember both times thinking, who on earth would buy a bike with Lemond on it? Not me, at any price. My 2¢...


----------



## PseuZQ (Mar 27, 2002)

*That's a really good point.*



lushmd said:


> Perhaps he meant Tyler Hamilton?



If that is the case, the reporter's an azzhat for stirring the pot by implying he meant Armstrong.


----------



## Live Steam (Feb 4, 2004)

Hey it didn't occur to me before, but maybe he got a little somin' somin' from his wife to cheer him up after his bad day and that threw off his chemistry down under.


----------



## epic (Apr 16, 2005)

I think he meant Tyler Hamilton. The reporter is probably too ignorant to know who that is.

Anyhow, I'll be checking Ebay for all y'alls Lemond Bikes. I'm still proud to have his name on my downtube (and fork and seattube and everywhere else...) and hoping to score one for the wife. Please list them soon!


----------



## EasyRider47 (Sep 18, 2005)

Removed


----------



## Live Steam (Feb 4, 2004)

Poor comprehension. He said Floyd nneded to say the Clinton quote.

I just wonder about something like this that is very complex and which is influenced by so many factors including the idea that he may have had sex the prior evening. I have no medical knowledge and admit to such. I just wonder about this control in particular.


----------



## stamp adams (Apr 16, 2006)

Personnaly, I think the point is not whether LeMond's comments are factional or not, but rather whether the remarks are damaging to the sport and to his own reputation, which in my view they are.


----------



## azjeff (Jul 31, 2006)

*My LeMond bike is gone*

I've owned a LeMond Maillot Jaune for a number of years. I love it. It's gone. Watch for it on Ebay. Someone needs to give HIM a drug test, see what kind of crack he's smoking. Right not I'd rather ride a Huffy.


----------



## Magsdad (Jun 29, 2005)

azjeff said:


> I've owned a LeMond Maillot Jaune for a number of years. I love it. It's gone. Watch for it on Ebay. Someone needs to give HIM a drug test, see what kind of crack he's smoking. Right not I'd rather ride a Huffy.


Have the paint stripped, paint it flat black, then put 'Armstrong' on the down tube and seven yellow stripes. Send him a picture.


----------



## velonh (Jul 16, 2004)

I’m bit surprised at the seething hate of Lemond that has developed here. It seems pretty clear to me that Lemond stands firmly in the “most top riders are doping” camp which many people on this board also belong to. He originally was very supportive of Landis but now that his A sample has come up positive he obviously believes he dopes. As we learn more about the tests it becomes more likely he did dope. So basically he is publicly stating an opinion that many cycling fans share which hardly qualifies as going of the deep end. Maybe it’s not good for cycling for him to be saying this but honestly I don’t think anyone out of cycling cares. All most sports fans need to see is that first headline “Landis test positive for doping” for them to feel smug about how dirty cycling is before changing the channel back to baseball.

Personally, I believe all TDF winners have been doping since at least 1996 (Riis, Ullrich, Pantani, Armstrong). I truly believed this tour was very close to being completely clean. I honestly felt Landis was clean and I was excited that he could win in such a dramatic fashion. I still hope Landis is clean. I like the guy, he seems good, but there is a good chance he is lying. I also liked Hamilton and it took me along time to finally come to the conclusion he was a doper. Lets all pray that Landis’s B sample comes back negative and we won’t have to debate this anymore.

In the interest of full discloser I ride a steel Lemond Zurich which I bought because it was cheap and I like the ride. If Landis turns out to be guilty and I find a BMC that I like to ride and can afford I will not hesitate to buy it. I don't care what my top tube says. 

I’ve never seen Lemond ride and Lance was the first cyclist I followed as a fan. I’m still a big cycling fan.


----------



## 514Climber (Oct 19, 2005)

*musings of a lurker*

Haven't posted much here...

In my second year of road riding, I've been pretty much wrapped up in meeting my personal goals (ie still at 39.5 mph in sprints without leadout; still trying to climb a local 3 mile 10% hill at 8 mph; etc, etc)

I'm not so sure LeMond is the misanthrope the media portrays him to be. Remember - it's all too easy to edit an interview to make a story more spicy.

There is an undeniable bitterness in LeMond. But then again, there was that one tour he should have won but had to give it to the badger. And he did lose two prime years due to the hunting accident. Had it not been for those, I'm certain he would be a member of the 5-Win club. He may have even had 6.

Yes, we should presume innocence until guilt is proven. However, history is filled with those who got away with it... We just know about the ones that got caught.

I agree with the previous poster. Most, if not all, of the modern era TDF winners are dirty. 

They just got away with it.

My only hope now is that people begin to see the light and see that winning the TDF is NOT the most impressive feat in cycling. The sprinters, for example, take much more risk. And the classic specialists are just as talented in their own right. I firmly believe winning the Paris-Roubaix is just as - if not more - difficult as winning the TDF. And it may be easier to enforce an anti-drug policy in a one-day race.


----------



## ultimobici (Jul 16, 2005)

slamy said:


> I was a big LeMond fan. Unlike most of the people on here I actually watched his victory in 1986 on tv and still have the vhs cassette to prove it. But this kind of crap is just nuts. I know he hates Armstrong, but he is calling him out in a French paper.
> 
> "In a veiled reference to seven-time winner Lance Armstrong, long dogged by doping allegations, LeMond added: "I hope that (Landis) won't do what another American did: Deny, deny, deny"
> 
> ...


Read this carefully and observe the use of the word if.

_ "If he is confirmed positive, I hope he has the courage to tell the truth," LeMond said in an interview with French weekly Le Journal du Dimanche released on Saturday. "He alone can change the face of the sport today. His example could be a symbol of change."

_Then read this and observe the use of quotation marks:_In a veiled reference to seven-time winner Lance Armstrong, long dogged by doping allegations, LeMond added: "I hope that (Landis) won't do what another American did: Deny, deny, deny."_


The journalist has made the connection with LA, rather than TH who is more likely the rider GL is referring to.

I've seen several TV interviews with LeMond recently and he has come across as reasoned and balanced. IF Landis doped, I too hope he is man enough to admit it instead of lying like Hamilton. 




GL has a better knowledge of the Pro peleton and how EPO changed it in the early 90's than we could ever hope to. His career may have lasted longer and he may have won in 91 if it weren't for EPO. Maybe it was the degenerative disease that killed his career off, but I suspect that the escalating use of EPO didn't help.


----------



## 867-5309 (Oct 7, 2005)

*Check your history*



velonh said:


> Personally, I believe all TDF winners have been doping since at least 1996 (Riis, Ullrich, Pantani, Armstrong).


rather than your gut. The first test were put in place in 1967 after a rider died because of amphetamine use. The peleton was downright filthy in the 60s, 70s, 80s, and 90s. Lemond was no angel.


----------



## brewster (Jun 15, 2004)

I was a huge fan of LeMond back in the day, but he is a good example of how a lifetime worth of respect can be earned by what one does, then be totally stripped of him by what he says.


----------



## Live Steam (Feb 4, 2004)

Yeah I had a chuckle about his starting date too. Miguel certainly was smart to stay under the radar even as a five time Tour winner. Maybe too smart?

I think LeMond doth protest too much. In my experience, people who claim to be victims of theft and other illicit acts, and who do it in such a culpatory manner, are the people to watch out for. I worked for one such famous person. They know what the posibilities are. They believe everyone is a cheater and a thief. LeMond made up almost a minute over 15 miles? Sounds too good to be true.


----------



## ultimobici (Jul 16, 2005)

Live Steam said:


> Yeah I had a chuckle about his starting date too. Miguel certainly was smart to stay under the radar even as a five time Tour winner. Maybe too smart?
> 
> I think LeMond doth protest too much. In my experience, people who claim to be victims of theft and other illicit acts, and who do it in such a culpatory manner, are the people to watch out for. I worked for one such famous person. They know what the posibilities are. They believe everyone is a cheater and a thief. LeMond made up almost a minute over 15 miles? Sounds too good to be true.


If you're referring to the 89 TT, you have to bear in mind Fignon was riding with a saddle sore. No wonder LeMond took that time back. Fignon couldn't sit down!! 1 minute over 15 miles is 4 seconds a mile.


----------



## Live Steam (Feb 4, 2004)

That is exactly what I was referring to. Hey I always admired LeMond for what he did, though I did find it difficult to like the guy - even back then. There was something about him the rubbed me the wrong way. I think it was his cocky attitude that I didn't appreciate.


----------



## ultimobici (Jul 16, 2005)

Live Steam said:


> That is exactly what I was referring to. Hey I always admired LeMond for what he did, though I did find it difficult to like the guy - even back then. There was something about him the rubbed me the wrong way. I think it was his cocky attitude that I didn't appreciate.


How do you view LA then?!


----------



## Live Steam (Feb 4, 2004)

I view him in a different light. To begin with he never complained about other racers and never claimed to be persecuted in the peloton. LeMond was a crybaby and the other riders certainly didn't appreciate his complaining.

LA started out as being much more humble than LeMond. It wasn't until he had equaled LeMond's three victories that I saw a change. But his attitude came off more as confidence than cockiness. I would say that in the last year or so, LA started to grate on me a bit. However, even from hearing what he has to say about Landis' situation - first his win and then the doping issue - he knows not only what to say, but what not to say. He is smart enough to know where his bread is buttered. Obviously he owns a team and doesn't want to damage the sport more than it has done on it's own. LeMond is just a buffoon who keeps tripping on his tongue.


----------



## ultimobici (Jul 16, 2005)

Live Steam said:


> I view him in a different light. To begin with he never complained about other racers and never claimed to be persecuted in the peloton. LeMond was a crybaby and the other riders certainly didn't appreciate his complaining.


Hinault is the only one I've heard speaking critically of him, although I haven't followed the US press between Winning magazine and recently.



> LA started out as being much more humble than LeMond. It wasn't until he had equaled LeMond's three victories that I saw a change. But his attitude came off more as confidence than cockiness. I would say that in the last year or so, LA started to grate on me a bit. However, even from hearing what he has to say about Landis' situation - first his win and then the doping issue - he knows not only what to say, but what not to say. He is smart enough to know where his bread is buttered. Obviously he owns a team and doesn't want to damage the sport more than it has done on it's own. LeMond is just a buffoon who keeps tripping on his tongue.


The comments I've heard from LeMond recently have come across as balanced and reasonable. As I posted earlier, LeMond said IF FL doped he hoped he would come clean. He then expressed the hope that he wouldn't do what another American did and deny, deny, deny. I took that to be a reference to Hamilton not LA, as the journalist did.


----------



## dez182 (Jul 11, 2002)

Live Steam said:


> I think it was his cocky attitude that I didn't appreciate.


I think a cocky attitude is a prerequisite for being at the top of any sport. If you don't have 100% confidence in yourself, you'll never be the best. All things being equal, the athlete who believes he is better than his competition will win every time.

See: Armstrong, Tyson, A-Rod, Randy Moss, etc. etc....all pretty much universally viewed as azzholes, but still be best at what they do.


----------



## aliensporebomb (Jul 2, 2002)

Frankly, I know the Lemond bikes are good but the logo and graphic design
makes it look like something out of the 1960s, not my favorite look.

I suspect many of the papers are amping up what Greg said to get the exact
reaction we're displaying here. Yes, he may be bitter but a measured response
isn't as interesting as "THROW THE BOOK AT HIM!"


----------



## arthurmcw (Jun 9, 2004)

Did anyone see Lemond's interview on the Today Show the other day? I think he is really dragging cycling in the mud. Viewers of these shows don't understand cycling and Lemond standing up in the media against Landis before this test is conclusive is wrong.


----------



## j__h (Jun 16, 2006)

Lemond comes off as bitter a-hole. Whether he is or his not is another question, but it sure does appear that way. I wasn't very familiar with him up until about 2 years ago, but after seeing several interviews with him and a number of specials, it seems he harbors a lot of resentment. 

I think this goes all the way back to his racing days when he essentially was a naive kid and probably felt taken advantage of by certain teams/people. Like Bernard Hinault breaking his promise to essentially race for him, etc. Or that fact that he had the hunting accident that almost ended his career. The whole 'lifes not fair' probably turned him into a hardcore cynic.


----------



## Alpedhuez55 (Jun 29, 2005)

arthurmcw said:


> Did anyone see Lemond's interview on the Today Show the other day? I think he is really dragging cycling in the mud. Viewers of these shows don't understand cycling and Lemond standing up in the media against Landis before this test is conclusive is wrong.


Well, to the general public, the perception is that Cycling is already in the Mud. You have the Yahoos on ESPN calling it the dirtiest sport. Just look at all the scandals in the past year and you can understand why. THough if you were to apply the same standards of drug testing in cycling to other sports, I do not think Cycling would look all that bad.

LeMond was right about the reports of Exogenous Testosterone in the A-Sample and his source was probably someone at L'Equipe. He goes after Lance, but Lance does have that questionable relationship with Dr. Ferarri, the Andreau's testimony and other reports that could make you question weather he is clean. 

Maybe he is just telling people what they fear is true but just do not want to accept.


----------



## 514Climber (Oct 19, 2005)

*Yes, that's true.*



867-5309 said:


> rather than your gut. The first test were put in place in 1967 after a rider died because of amphetamine use. The peleton was downright filthy in the 60s, 70s, 80s, and 90s. Lemond was no angel.




I should have mentioned that in my prior post. 

What I had meant to say was that most modern-era TDF winners are guilty of EPO. Before that, I'm sure most of the winners used some other form of old-school performance enhancers like amphetamine.

Nevertheless, I threw my hat into this ring because the LeMond bashing going on in this and other threads are reactionary.


----------



## Miles E (Jul 31, 2003)

Alpedhuez55 said:


> You have the Yahoos on ESPN calling it the dirtiest sport.


What's really funny is how they dismiss it as a childish pursuit ("anyone can ride a bicycle") on one hand, and then in practically the same breath talk about how it's such a dirty sport. So which is it- a leisurely pasttime unworthy of being called a sport, or such a demanding feat of athleticism that it requires superhuman abilities?


----------



## Alpedhuez55 (Jun 29, 2005)

Miles E said:


> What's really funny is how they dismiss it as a childish pursuit ("anyone can ride a bicycle") on one hand, and then in practically the same breath talk about how it's such a dirty sport. So which is it- a leisurely pasttime unworthy of being called a sport, or such a demanding feat of athleticism that it requires superhuman abilities?


Same here with the Talk Radio Crowd. Bob Neumeir was a Boston talk radio guy. I do not think he trashed Armstong when he was winning his tours, but never really cared about it. Somehow, he got the CBS gig to cover it this year though. But I am sure he spent more time at the Horse Races in France than at the Tour. That is his true area of expertise.

Landis winning was barely a blip on the station radar, but Landis getting caught was a big story to them for a couple of days. I have not listened to them much. I guess I get tired of listening to some guy with a thick Boston Accent Calling Landis a Cheata then proposing three way deal that will bring the Sox an all star pitcher and a slugging outfielder for a Duble A back up cathcing prospect and a pitcher about to come of the disabled list.


----------



## cyclopath (Feb 20, 2005)

Narcissism is an ugly thing. Self-confidence, on the other hand, is to be admired. Sometimes the two are blurred. Narcissism is like filling a balloon that has a hole in both ends, there needs to be a constant supply of air coming in because there is continually air going out. When an athletes air supply begins to dwindle, as it always eventually does with age or injury, and they don't have other ways to compensate, then they can become deflated, bitter, resentful, and try to devalue others who are accomplished. This is when their true character is put to the test. Then they hit the jackpot when they are able to devalue others who have made mistakes or screwed up in some way. I admire those who possess self-confidence and use it wisely without the crutch of narcissism.


----------



## bas (Jul 30, 2004)

Hmm, another paper said it is Hamilton:

http://www.postchronicle.com/news/original/article_21231401.shtml

"In an obvious veiled reference to Cyclist Tyler Hamilton, long dogged by doping allegations, LeMond continued: "I hope that (Landis) won't do what another American did: Deny, deny, deny ... I know Floyd, he's a good guy, he comes from a good family. If all this is proven, it will be a part of the tragedy that crosses this sport: Even good people are obliged to deceive.""




slamy said:


> "In a veiled reference to seven-time winner Lance Armstrong, long dogged by doping allegations, LeMond added: "I hope that (Landis) won't do what another American did: Deny, deny, deny"
> 
> read the whole article
> 
> http://sports.yahoo.com/sc/news;_yl...5nYcB?slug=ap-landis-lemond&prov=ap&type=lgns


----------



## run50 (Jul 31, 2006)

*Lemond Is Just a Pimple on the Ass of Progress*

I'm sick of this guy. All he does is run his mouth to hear himself talk. I do know that if I were Vinokurov, I'd get myself a damn good attorney and sue Lemond for every nickle he's got. I heard the ESPN interview online the other day with Lemond. He threw Vinokurov into the mix saying he, Basso and Ulrich were not allowed to ride this year's Tour because they were involved with the doping scandal in Spain. Lemond doesn't have any idea what he's talking about. Vinokurov wasn't even named in that scandal. His team didn't get to ride because they had below the minimum number of riders. I wish that Lemond would just crawl back in his hole in Minnesota. How and why the media panders to this guy is beyond me, except that maybe they know he's an idiot, but he did win the Tour 3 times and they know he'll stir up controversey because he shoots his mouth off without thinking. Controversey sells.....

And for him to say he's a "friend of Landis". Sure glad I don't have friends like Lemond!


----------



## Alpedhuez55 (Jun 29, 2005)

run50 said:


> I'm sick of this guy. All he does is run his mouth to hear himself talk. I do know that if I were Vinokurov, I'd get myself a damn good attorney and sue Lemond for every nickle he's got. I heard the ESPN interview online the other day with Lemond. He threw Vinokurov into the mix saying he, Basso and Ulrich were not allowed to ride this year's Tour because they were involved with the doping scandal in Spain. Lemond doesn't have any idea what he's talking about. Vinokurov wasn't even named in that scandal. His team didn't get to ride because they had below the minimum number of riders.


You are putting words in LeMond's mouth, just like the "journalist" who added Lance Armstrong name to the quote that was more likely towards Tyler Hamilton. 

Vino was not directly named in the scandal. But a big chunk of his team was mentioned. It may be indirect involvement, but he was involved in the scandal because he was victimized by it. If LeMond directly called him a doper, that would be a different story. 

I think the LeMond haters are just reading too much between the lines here. It seems they want to direct their fustration and disappointment towards him, even though more or less all of what he is saying turns out to be right.

If Vino should sue anyone, it is the Spanish authorities who cleared his teamates right after the tour. I would not be suprised if there is some sort of Riders Strike at the Vuelta over this scandal. If I were a rider on a team that was screwed over because of OP, then I would want the government to know how I feel.


----------



## 55x11 (Apr 24, 2006)

Live Steam said:


> I view him in a different light. To begin with he never complained about other racers and never claimed to be persecuted in the peloton. LeMond was a crybaby and the other riders certainly didn't appreciate his complaining.
> 
> LA started out as being much more humble than LeMond. It wasn't until he had equaled LeMond's three victories that I saw a change. But his attitude came off more as confidence than cockiness. I would say that in the last year or so, LA started to grate on me a bit. However, even from hearing what he has to say about Landis' situation - first his win and then the doping issue - he knows not only what to say, but what not to say. He is smart enough to know where his bread is buttered. Obviously he owns a team and doesn't want to damage the sport more than it has done on it's own. LeMond is just a buffoon who keeps tripping on his tongue.


Word.
That about sums up my feelings about LA vs. Lemond. LA is a competitive type-A personality and is a giant jerk, but he doesn't make excuses or looks for scapegoats. LeMond on the other hand is a hysterical crybaby. Both are egocentric, revengful and hold plenty of grudges, but Armstrongs learned how to keep his mouth shut, while LeMond still hasn't quite figured it out.

"They LIED!!!! THEY LIED TO MEEEEE!!! Whaaaaa!!!!!"


----------



## djg714 (Oct 24, 2005)

run50 said:


> I'm sick of this guy. All he does is run his mouth to hear himself talk. I do know that if I were Vinokurov, I'd get myself a damn good attorney and sue Lemond for every nickle he's got. I heard the ESPN interview online the other day with Lemond. He threw Vinokurov into the mix saying he, Basso and Ulrich were not allowed to ride this year's Tour because they were involved with the doping scandal in Spain. Lemond doesn't have any idea what he's talking about. Vinokurov wasn't even named in that scandal. His team didn't get to ride because they had below the minimum number of riders. I wish that Lemond would just crawl back in his hole in Minnesota. How and why the media panders to this guy is beyond me, except that maybe they know he's an idiot, but he did win the Tour 3 times and they know he'll stir up controversey because he shoots his mouth off without thinking. Controversey sells.....
> 
> And for him to say he's a "friend of Landis". Sure glad I don't have friends like Lemond!



Lemond doesn't have a clue ??WTF? How many TDF's have you won?
All you Lance lovers are pathetic.........Landis screwed up, bad deal.


----------



## djg714 (Oct 24, 2005)

Alpedhuez55 said:


> Well, to the general public, the perception is that Cycling is already in the Mud. You have the Yahoos on ESPN calling it the dirtiest sport. Just look at all the scandals in the past year and you can understand why. THough if you were to apply the same standards of drug testing in cycling to other sports, I do not think Cycling would look all that bad.
> 
> LeMond was right about the reports of Exogenous Testosterone in the A-Sample and his source was probably someone at L'Equipe. He goes after Lance, but Lance does have that questionable relationship with Dr. Ferarri, the Andreau's testimony and other reports that could make you question weather he is clean.
> 
> Maybe he is just telling people what they fear is true but just do not want to accept.



People don't want to hear anything bad about their heroes. I'm glad Greg has the cojones to talk about. Anyways all these Lance lovers will be out of cycling soon...Don't see many of them riding anymore.....


----------



## Alpedhuez55 (Jun 29, 2005)

55x11 said:


> Word.
> That about sums up my feelings about LA vs. Lemond. LA is a competitive type-A personality and is a giant jerk, but he doesn't make excuses or looks for scapegoats. LeMond on the other hand is a hysterical crybaby. Both are egocentric, revengful and hold plenty of grudges, but Armstrongs learned how to keep his mouth shut, while LeMond still hasn't quite figured it out.
> 
> "They LIED!!!! THEY LIED TO MEEEEE!!! Whaaaaa!!!!!"


It was only 10 years between Lemond winning his first world championship and Armstrong winning his, but those are totally different eras. LeMond had a much harder time breaking into the Pro Peloton

LeMond was the first American to have any real success in Europe. I am sure the attitude was a lot different back then in the Peloton. At the time, the Euros had to look at them as a threat and an outsider. You also probably had the last real _le Patron _of the peleton in Bernard Hinault, who LeMond happenned to team with.

By the time Armstong came around Americans were more accepted in the pro peloton. You had an American team that had some level of success, Lemond had own three tours, plus an influx of Eastern European racers into the ranks. And there was no clear leader of the Peleton after Hinault retired (unless you count that one stage where Armstrong kept having his team chase down some Italian who dissed his Doctor)

Plus Lance has a much better PR team. Nike keeps a close watch on his public image. Look at what they do for their athletes. Michael Jordan can lose millions playing golf, get oral favors from porn stars and still go on Sesame Street. They keep their high profile athletes in small closely controlled circles. LeMond really could use a better publicist if he even has one. He will always look like that grumpy old man claiming to have won three tours on nothing but Coors Light and Taco Bell. But he probably could care less about his image.


----------



## snowman3 (Jul 20, 2002)

Magsdad said:


> Have the paint stripped, paint it flat black, then put 'Armstrong' on the down tube and seven yellow stripes. Send him a picture.


that was my suggestion on another thread, 'cept I didn't think of the 7 yellow stripes. Yellow and black is a cool color combo anyhow. Just like the LA bike that OCC did. I got to see it in person and it looked fantastic.


----------



## gutpile (Feb 26, 2005)

*Lemond's drug screens*

Does anyone know whether he was subject to any? Like Livestream suggests, and I think is right on, more often than not those who voice the loudest opposition or criticism of others actually harbor the conduct they are all fired up against.


----------



## Live Steam (Feb 4, 2004)

Thanks gutpile. gutpile? Um, I don't want to know


----------



## gutpile (Feb 26, 2005)

*Live Steam*

oops - you'd think i'd get the credits right (not Livestream)


----------



## djg714 (Oct 24, 2005)

munch on this one....

http://sports.espn.go.com/oly/cycling/news/story?id=2535787


----------



## 55x11 (Apr 24, 2006)

djg714 said:


> Lemond doesn't have a clue ??WTF? How many TDF's have you won?
> All you Lance lovers are pathetic.........Landis screwed up, bad deal.


Hmm... Excellent.

Let me re-enact the discussion:

previous poster: Lemond has no clue. He said Vino was involved in Puerto, he wasn't.
(Armstrong wasn't mentioned)

You: WTF? How many TDF's have you won? You are a Lance Lover, pathetic!

I rest my case. Excellent debating skills. Let's see. And how many Tdf's have YOU won?
Ha-ha, didn't expect that, did ya? I got you there!!! Buuurrnn!!!

Oh, wait. There's more. LA won 7 TDFs but Lemond won 3. So by your logic whatever LA says is correct, Lemond has no right to discuss LA. Anyone pointing out factual mistakes in Lemonds' ranting is CLEARLY doing this because they are LA lover. 

I love internet discussions! :mad2:


----------



## stevesbike (Jun 3, 2002)

First off, Lemond was subject to drug controls his entire career. Not once was he ever suspected of doping, not even the smallest hint of a scandal. For all you Lemond haters suggesting this, I defy you to find any serious allegation ever against him. Also, name one claim Lemond has made about this case that has not now been reported in credible media? Maybe you should get you heads out of your butts about Lemond and realize it's just a guy who has the guts to stick up for the integriy of the sport-or maybe you just prefer guys who chase other riders like Simeoni down to enforce a code of silence in the peloton.


----------



## desmo13 (Jun 28, 2006)

stevesbike said:


> Also, name one claim Lemond has made about this case that has not now been reported in credible media? .


I think the only thing reported in "credible media" has been:

Phonak's press release
McQuiads (UCI) release
Landis statements.

Everything else is just rumor for now.

or did I miss something?


----------



## djg714 (Oct 24, 2005)

stevesbike said:


> First off, Lemond was subject to drug controls his entire career. Not once was he ever suspected of doping, not even the smallest hint of a scandal. For all you Lemond haters suggesting this, I defy you to find any serious allegation ever against him. Also, name one claim Lemond has made about this case that has not now been reported in credible media? Maybe you should get you heads out of your butts about Lemond and realize it's just a guy who has the guts to stick up for the integriy of the sport-or maybe you just prefer guys who chase other riders like Simeoni down to enforce a code of silence in the peloton.


Steve, this comes mainly from the Lance crowd. They can't stand Greg and really have no knowledge or respect for the sport. Talk about class.......


----------



## Alpedhuez55 (Jun 29, 2005)

desmo13 said:


> I think the only thing reported in "credible media" has been:
> 
> Phonak's press release
> McQuiads (UCI) release
> ...


Well, every media source has picked up on the Synthetic Testosterone now that it is in the wire service. The UCI would have issued a denial by now if the leaks were false. It would urt their credibility. 

I think most of us want to beleive the leaks are false. Most people hate the fact that this information is being leaked to l'equipe first. But it is probably only a matter of time until they are confirmed.


----------



## shabbasuraj (May 14, 2005)

Lemond doped during his tour win.

He just never got caught..

Move along people.. nothing to see here...


----------



## desmo13 (Jun 28, 2006)

Floyd forever. I blame bush. if he wouldnt have invaded Iraq, the french would like us, and not tamper with our bicycle riders. When we pull out of Iraq, can we have our original, un-tampered with urine and blood sample back?


----------



## shabbasuraj (May 14, 2005)

Ya bush is at fault.


----------



## 67ten (May 26, 2006)

Thanks for that pic djg714. A picture says a thousand words doesn't it. "What a classy move from the champ". I can't believe the lack of credit and respect that Lemond gets in this country. I think a three time TDF winner has earned the right to speak out in regards to cycling and doping.


----------

