# Cyclists and big bellies...



## fourdetrance (Mar 30, 2014)

I recently started riding with local group rides and I noticed that about 95% of the riders have large guts. Not sure why this happens because most of the riders that are obese have been riding for a long time. I'm 37 years old and I'm 5'8" and the only thing that I can think about is that me being vegan along with cycling has kept me at 140-145 lbs. I used to weigh 215lbs until I became vegan and then the pounds just shed off and quickly.

I'm sure many of you would like to chime in on this, but I just can't wrap my mind around why these riders that can ride like badasses still have huge stomachs. A lot of these guys (and gals) keep up for a while too. I'm not trying to be deragatory or offend anyone, but I'm honestly asking about opinions on why these seemingly fit folks still have the weight even though they're putting in serious miles on the bikes. Thank you for your time!


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## wgscott (Jul 14, 2013)

Biking increases you appetite. It is hard to lose weight unless you ride hard and count calories. (Speaking as someone who needs to.) I tried being vegan for about 72 hours and it nearly killed me. I now eat fish in addition to dairy products. Life is a series of sell-outs.


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## sdeeer (Aug 12, 2008)

Fitness is more than an number on the scale. There are many markers of metric used to measure fitness.

If they are 'overweight' and yet still cardiovascular 'fit', they can likely still keep up with a spirited group ride or even race in flat terrain.

The reasons that individuals who do a lot (seemingly) of exercise is the general poor diet that many currently consume. It is a miss match of caloric intake with expenditure. Many cyclist eat too much both on and off the bike, but assume they are 'better off' than their sedentary counterparts due to the 'protective effects' of exercise. Some may be protected, but the positive energy balance leading to weight gain is often metabolically related to disease states. Without knowing their blood profiles, you can't comment for sure about their metabolic health and ultimately disease risk.

A recent reevaluation of BMI data suggests that the range above 27 is where risk ticks up more strongly in most, even athletes.

I am not going to post/link up all of the papers at this time of night, but check out previous posts of mine for relevant citations if you would like.

Basically, exercise is protective and 'healthy' per se, but a poor diet can 'undo' quite a bit of the positive effects of exercise. There is a ton of data to support that. We have a paper coming out about the effect of a high fat meal following exercise which suggests (in agreement with others) that after you refill the caloric hole (so to speak) additional calories (depending on the type) can lead to reduced markers of health.


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## Retro Grouch (Apr 30, 2002)

It's those morning group rides to the local pancake house that is the culprit. Burning 1000 calories roundtrip to consume a 2000 calorie breakfast...well you do the math :idea:


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## Special Eyes (Feb 2, 2011)

You are what you eat. Good diet is essential. Good diet plus exercise is more essential.


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## fourdetrance (Mar 30, 2014)

sdeeer said:


> Fitness is more than an number on the scale. There are many markers of metric used to measure fitness.
> 
> If they are 'overweight' and yet still cardiovascular 'fit', they can likely still keep up with a spirited group ride or even race in flat terrain.
> 
> ...


I didn't want to flat out say it, but you did- and I applaud! I noticed the post-ride meals that these folks were eating and I'm always floored at the excuses they have about how they are basically entitled to eat like that because they just rode x amount of miles. It's some kind of wacky justification to eat bad because they assume that the calories burned gives them permission to eat garbage. I thought I was the only one that was surprised about this paradox.


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## JCavilia (Sep 12, 2005)

I have not noticed that phenomenon. I'm 63 years old, 5'7", and about 150 pounds, 5 pounds more than I weighed 40 years ago. I haven't noticed a lot of cyclists around here with big guts. Maybe it's different where you live.

I eat all kinds of things, but not too much.


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## bvber (Apr 23, 2011)

fourdetrance said:


> I recently started riding with local group rides and I noticed that about 95% of the riders have large guts.


Maybe they go for beer afterwards? :skep:


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## Ullr (Oct 30, 2013)

I noticed weight loss only after I stopped drinking beer. Now it is just a couple times a month.


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## dot (Mar 4, 2004)

fourdetrance said:


> I recently started riding with local group rides and I noticed that about 95% of the riders have large guts. Not sure why this happens because most of the riders that are obese have been riding for a long time. I'm 37 years old and I'm 5'8" and the only thing that I can think about is that me being vegan along with cycling has kept me at 140-145 lbs. I used to weigh 215lbs until I became vegan and then the pounds just shed off and quickly.
> 
> I'm sure many of you would like to chime in on this, but I just can't wrap my mind around why these riders that can ride like badasses still have huge stomachs. A lot of these guys (and gals) keep up for a while too. I'm not trying to be deragatory or offend anyone, but I'm honestly asking about opinions on why these seemingly fit folks still have the weight even though they're putting in serious miles on the bikes. Thank you for your time!


Answer simple questions: 
- Do they have to? 
- Do they want to? 
- Are they happy?
- Who sets the standards? 

Life is one constant unceasing Compromise. And if you're able to keep your weight only by being a vegan - poor you.


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## Peter P. (Dec 30, 2006)

Starting in their late 40's to early 50's, men's metabolism changes and hormone changes occur as well. Excess calories will accumulate around the gut. Andy Pruitt's book, Complete Medical Guide for Cyclists, helps explain this phenomenon. 

This, combined with the fact that many cyclists including this group seem to think that every ride must include either a pastry stop, coffee stop, or post ride brew, results in the fat cyclists you see.

Could you also be seeing cyclists who are in the middle of their weight loss journey?


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## MB1 (Jan 27, 2004)

dot said:


> Life is one constant unceasing Compromise. And if you're able to keep your weight only by being a vegan - poor you.


:thumbsup:


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## wim (Feb 28, 2005)

fourdetrance said:


> I'm honestly asking about opinions on why these seemingly fit folks still have the weight even though they're putting in serious miles on the bikes.


Part of the reason is that they, in fact, can keep up even though they have the weight. That decreases the motivation to lose weight. As long as they go on rides during which there are no serious accelerations and where speeds slow significantly as soon as the road tilts up, weight is not going to be much of a problem for them. It's also conceivable that this fact attracted them to cycling in the first place. 

I think most of these folks do understand that for them to move towards a more competitive type of cycling, they must shed weight. But many of them are perfectly happy to remain where they are.


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## pete2528ca (Jun 17, 2011)

Who cares? Are they riding? Are they happy? Who are you to judge the gut? I have a bit of a gut and ride. I was an ex rugby player who consumed over 3000 calories a day to keep my front row physique. Now I ride, hard to change from a rugby player to cyclist physique over night. I consume 1800 to 2100 calories a day now. 

Don't worry about others, worry about yourself. The guy you are calling fat sure isn't thinking you need to eat more. I bet if you asked him face to face why he has a gut as opposed to anonymously on the board he would probably punch you in the face.


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## OldZaskar (Jul 1, 2009)

There's a simple answer to why "95% of the riders have large guts." That's simply bulls**t. Unless you've found a group sponsored by Krispy Kreme averaging 11 mph on those group rides, you're not going to see almost every rider at a group ride with "huge stomachs". 

All the comments about eating more than you burn are accurate, but that's not the basis on this one.


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## Social Climber (Jan 16, 2013)

I have stats similar to the OPs: 5'7 and range between 140-145 pounds. I lost 65 pounds a few years ago through Weight Watchers and have managed to keep it off. One lesson I learned: weight is lost in the kitchen, not in the gym (or on the bike). It is very easy to out-eat your legs. In fact I tend to gain weight when I am training for and riding centuries because I tend to eat more.

I also see a number of bellies on my club rides too, but those people can keep up with the group (and some of them can smoke me on the flats if they really want to, just not up the hills) so it's all good. The exercise will improve their overall health even if they don't lose the excess weight.


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## gearloose (Feb 25, 2007)

fourdetrance said:


> I'm 37 years old and I'm 5'8" and the only thing that I can think about is that me being vegan along with cycling has kept me at 140-145 lbs. I used to weigh 215lbs until I became vegan and then the pounds just shed off and quickly.


I'm 64, 6'2", omnivorous, and weight 160 pounds. My weight loss story is similar to yours. 225 pounds to 160 pounds. A friend of mine was herbivorous, overweight, and had a heart attack. I'm thinking that moderation in diet, regardless of its composition, and exercise play a greater role than the composition of the diet alone.


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## Social Climber (Jan 16, 2013)

dot said:


> Life is one constant unceasing Compromise. And if you're able to keep your weight only by being a vegan - poor you.


One change I made after losing all the weight (see my prior post) was that I switched to a plant-based diet, occasionally with some fish but no eggs, meat, or dairy. It was one of the best decisions I ever made. It significantly improved my overall health and quality of life. I don't see it as a compromise at all. If you think that happiness is defined by whether you eat meat, poor you


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## dbdg (Apr 5, 2014)

I subscribe to the paleo diet. I'm not trying to convert everyone, I just know it makes me feel better. Most of my diet is plant based now with protein added. I do break it for pizza occasionally, but I try to keep it in moderation. I know I will pay for it later.

I've lost 70 lbs since ditching all the processed foods and starting to run, now bike. Like someone said, you can't out run a bad diet, but neither should you judge those who aren't at your fitness ideal. You don't know their history, or what their goals are. Let their health status be between themselves and their healthcare provider.


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## Nubster (Jul 8, 2009)

Down 80 pounds myself due to Paleo and riding. Still gotta gut, still need to loose another 30-40 pounds to get where I want to be.


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## tlg (May 11, 2011)

It has nothing to do with you being vegan. I know fat vegans and vegetarians. Sugar, potato chips, granola, fruit smoothies, coconut oil/milk, vegan cupcakes, cookies, muffins, cakes, and pies are vegan. But high in calories. 

As others mentioned, it's a matter of consuming too many calories. Especially during/after you ride. One thing for me is after a ride and I'm famished, if I start eating right away I'll clean out the kitchen cabinets. But if I just wait a little while that famished feeling subsides and a snack will do.


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## Terex (Jan 3, 2005)

After a high enough level of activity, appetite is temporarily suppressed. Does Exercise Suppress Appetite? | Fitness Coach | OutsideOnline.com

At the times of highest cycling mileage and intensity, I wasn't all that hungry. Your friends are probably at sub-optimal levels of intensity for appetite suppression. Get them to ride faster or go vegan. There's nothing that suppresses your appetite like a nice vegan meal.


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## Mckdaddy (Feb 8, 2014)

What can I say? -- I like foods that are bad for me and in large quantities.

My wife actually has me eating better this year and it is starting to show, at least my pants are feeling loose.

I'm 5'11", 216. Goal is 185.


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## nealric (Jul 5, 2007)

I always had a small gut before I started lifting- cycling is great for cardio but doesn't help much with muscle mass. I also find that lifting has a much smaller impact on appetite.


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## Jay Strongbow (May 8, 2010)

fourdetrance said:


> I'm sure many of you would like to chime in on this, but I just can't wrap my mind around why these riders that can ride like badasses still have huge stomachs.


My guess is that you, being new, have yet to realize what constitues "can ride like badasses" and these guys ain't actually it despite being able to impress a new cyclist.

There are some fat guys who do pretty well on the flats but odds of an entire group of guys with huge guts being badass cyclists are pretty close to 0%. They may be badass compared to a new cyclist, and certain individuals may be outright badass themself but statistically there's just no way a group of fat guys are all bad ass cyclists unless they are like an national fat guy all-star team or something like that.


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## Oxtox (Aug 16, 2006)

you can ride a bike a lot and still not know squat about nutrition.


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## obed (Jan 12, 2014)

why are you looking at their gut instead of where you are going?


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## nOOky (Mar 20, 2009)

I used to be the cyclist that ate too much because I justified it by all my biking. However I learned you cannot out-exercise a poor diet. Cyclists with large bellies may practice belly breathing, more than likely don't work their abs, may drink beer in large quantities, and probably aren't as fast as you think they think they are.


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## wim (Feb 28, 2005)

nOOky said:


> Cyclists with large bellies may practice belly breathing


Not sure if you mean belly-breathing is a bad thing. If you do, I can't agree. Many pros are long-time belly breathers and some respected coaches advocate it strongly.


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## Dumbod (Dec 31, 2004)

Why are so many vegans self-righteous prats?

I'm not trying to be deragatory (sic) or offend anyone, but I'm honestly asking opinions about why this phenomenon exists.

See, saying that you're not trying to be derogatory and not actually being derogatory are two different things. Your question is based on three assumptions, all of which are wrong:

1) Your body type and shape is the ideal type and shape.
2) Everyone who doesn't have your body types wishes that they did have it.
3) The only reason that the rest of don't have your body type is because we are weak-willed sniveling excuses for human beings.

Newsflash for you little guy, I don't aspire to have your 'perfect' body type. I wouldn't have your body type if they were giving it away on the corner. For many of us, riding/fitness is only one aspect of living a complete life, not the be all and end all. It's fine if you want to make that choice but don't delude yourself that it somehow makes you better than the those of us who have made what we would call "more balanced" choices.


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## Andy69 (Jun 14, 2008)

fourdetrance said:


> I recently started riding with local group rides and I noticed that about 95% of the riders have large guts. Not sure why this happens because most of the riders that are obese have been riding for a long time. I'm 37 years old and I'm 5'8" and the only thing that I can think about is that me being vegan along with cycling has kept me at 140-145 lbs. I used to weigh 215lbs until I became vegan and then the pounds just shed off and quickly.
> 
> I'm sure many of you would like to chime in on this, but I just can't wrap my mind around why these riders that can ride like badasses still have huge stomachs. A lot of these guys (and gals) keep up for a while too. I'm not trying to be deragatory or offend anyone, but I'm honestly asking about opinions on why these seemingly fit folks still have the weight even though they're putting in serious miles on the bikes. Thank you for your time!


Cycling alone is not conducive to losing a gut. Weight lost with high cardio exercise also consists of a lot of lean tissue. That's why you see skinny cyclists with guts. To lose the gut they also need to hit the weights to keep the muscle tissue.


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## Andy69 (Jun 14, 2008)

Jay Strongbow said:


> My guess is that you, being new, have yet to realize what constitues "can ride like badasses" and these guys ain't actually it despite being able to impress a new cyclist.
> 
> There are some fat guys who do pretty well on the flats but odds of an entire group of guys with huge guts being badass cyclists are pretty close to 0%. They may be badass compared to a new cyclist, and certain individuals may be outright badass themself but statistically there's just no way a group of fat guys are all bad ass cyclists unless they are like an national fat guy all-star team or something like that.


I've known plenty of fat guys who were badasses. And I know they were badasses because they rode with other skinny badasses and more often than not were up front.


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## obed (Jan 12, 2014)

Andy69 said:


> I've known plenty of fat guys who were badasses. And I know they were badasses because they rode with other skinny badasses and more often than not were up front.


Here is what i know about being a badass; first, it is a realtive term, second, compared to me, everybody is a badass.


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## bvber (Apr 23, 2011)

Peter P. said:


> Starting in their late 40's to early 50's, men's metabolism changes and hormone changes occur as well.


It starts much earlier than that.


> Excess calories will accumulate around the gut.


Generally, yes but the type of calories has something to do with it as well. Processed food = bad.


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## Opus51569 (Jul 21, 2009)

Jay Strongbow said:


> ...statistically there's just no way a group of fat guys are all bad ass cyclists unless they are like an national fat guy all-star team or something like that.


Okay. Now I really want someone to organize a National Fat-Guy All-Star Team.

I would volunteer, but I only fit half the description. I have the requisite gut for it, just not the legs... 

To the OP's question, it could just be these guys eat/drink like horses, and ride like them too, particularly if they've been doing it long enough.


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## Cooper1960 (Oct 14, 2010)

Personally I blame the "big gut" trend on bike geometry. In the old days all the bikes had a straight top tube and you could rest your gut on that, now so many bikes are going to relaxed geometry which often includes a sloping top tube, so now there's no place for your gut to rest, it's just hanging down there swinging in the wind. Oh, and the shorts also don't help, I think the elastic band should come up to the bottom of your nipples.

Frankly I don't know where the OP rides but from the looks of most of the bikers in my area I think cyclist are a very healthy bunch of people.


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## bigjohnla (Mar 29, 2010)

I am a big gut rider. Basically, I eat way too much. No simpler way to put it.To offset for my consumption would require me to ride the equivalent of the Tour de France every month of the year. I am not the only one. Down here in South Louisiana there are a good number of us. We ride massive amounts and then feel justified in eating a huge post ride meal. something I need to work on.


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## mikerp (Jul 24, 2011)

fourdetrance said:


> I'm sure many of you would like to chime in on this, but I just can't wrap my mind around why these riders that can ride like badasses still have huge stomachs. A lot of these guys (and gals) keep up for a while too. I'm not trying to be deragatory or offend anyone, but I'm honestly asking about opinions on why these seemingly fit folks still have the weight even though they're putting in serious miles on the bikes. Thank you for your time!


I'll go out on a limb, you are still relatively new to riding and have hooked up with some club riders. These folks put in some miles and stop after the rides and put in some food. I would not call these folks "badasses", they have relatively good fitness and do can keep up in a specific type of rides. Chances are their is another group of riders/racers in your are (look for Wed night ride) out there with no guts, they will be doing a much faster ride, and most likely dropping 2/3's of the group that starts.


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## jfaas (Jan 31, 2014)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xm7itTCHQk4&feature=youtube_gdata_player

Ironically, my wife sent me this link while I was reading this thread. I might need one of these.

I agree with anyone pointing fingers at processed foods. When you can get 1000+ Calories to fit in the palm of your hand, you're in trouble.


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## Pirx (Aug 9, 2009)

tlg said:


> It has nothing to do with you being vegan. I know fat vegans and vegetarians. Sugar, potato chips, granola, fruit smoothies, coconut oil/milk, vegan cupcakes, cookies, muffins, cakes, and pies are vegan. But high in calories.


I agree with you in principle, but I do note that, if I had to exist on the crap that make up a vegan diet, I'd probably loose weight, too. Other than that, I usually gain quite a bit during the off-season, and then I shed 10-15lbs by the summer. So, yeah, I have a bit of a gut now, but come August I'm a lean mean fighting machine again.  Right now you may drop me in a hard sprint, but by the end of summer even the kids who could be my kids will have a hard time dropping me, and they'll be quite content staying with me over the duration of a long ride...



Dumbod said:


> Why are so many vegans self-righteous prats?


Excellent question, by the way.


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## wgscott (Jul 14, 2013)

Dumbod said:


> Why are so many vegans self-righteous prats?


Partly because it is often a moral/ethical decision, not just a diet/health decision. If you decide never to consume or use animals so that they won't be killed or exploited, it is hard not to think about it in morally superior terms.



Dumbod said:


> I'm not trying to be deragatory (sic) or offend anyone, but I'm honestly asking opinions about why this phenomenon exists.


Also, I have noticed non-vegan people who are also obsessed with diet to the point where they equate dietary fiber with moral fiber can also be relentlessly judgy.

BTW for someone hunched over on a bike, unless they have very good abdominal muscles, as they age, they will appear to sag even without a pot belly. 

Finally, omental fat (see Figure 1) tends to accumulate due to age and stress, not just diet _per se_. My arms and legs are in great shape, but I have too much omental fat. It is very hard to get rid of it. (I am also not a fast rider.)

View attachment 294175

Fig. 1


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## cyclingsivells (Aug 1, 2012)

Newsflash for you little guy, I don't aspire to have your 'perfect' body type. I wouldn't have your body type if they were giving it away on the corner. For many of us, riding/fitness is only one aspect of living a complete life, not the be all and end all. It's fine if you want to make that choice but don't delude yourself that it somehow makes you better than the those of us who have made what we would call "more balanced" choices.[/QUOTE]

Agreed- I'd much rather look like Junior dos Santos than Chris Froome whether I could ride a bike or not.


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## stanseven (Nov 9, 2011)

Cycling won't cause weight loss unless you push hard. Taking a leisurely two or three hour ride at a conversational pace doesn't burn many calories. However doing the same ride where talking is hard and heart rate goes up on hills, sprints, and fast sections does.

Too many cyclists also eat way too much.


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## Social Climber (Jan 16, 2013)

Dumbod said:


> Why are so many vegans self-righteous prats?


I hear people ask the same questions about cyclists.


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## sdeeer (Aug 12, 2008)

score said:


> Cycling doesn't do much for building muscle. The more muscular you are, the more calories you burn, even at rest.
> 
> .


This will blow your mind.....but you are wrong(ish): Skeletal Muscle Hypertrophy After Aerobic Exercise Training : Exercise and Sport Sciences Reviews

And....."Current _dogma _suggests that aerobic exercise training has minimal effects on skeletal muscle size. We and others have demonstrated that aerobic exercise acutely and chronically alters protein metabolism and induces skeletal muscle *hypertrophy*. These findings promote an antithesis to the status quo by providing novel perspective on skeletal muscle mass regulation and insight into exercise countermeasures for populations prone to muscle loss."

Boom..Science!

But being a ridiculous aside.....I plan to post a review of that data in the nutrition forum sometime in the next month...

It is also falsesque that more muscle burns more calories at rest. While that is true, the magnitude of just the muscle mass is about 100 calories per 10 kg gain of LBM. That is hardly something to 'talk about' as effective.

the real increase is the use of the muscle mass to do more work during exercise and the post exercise cost of recovering from said work (watts / kg lifted / etc.) Having the mass at rest 2 - 3 days after the last exercise bout is not all that beneficial.


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## Terex (Jan 3, 2005)

Alex Gregory, the noted New Yorker cartoonist passed away recently. Several of his best cartoons were posted shortly after his death. The one I forwarded to several people showed two women dining, with the following caption: "I started my vegetarianism for health reasons, then it became a moral choice, and now it's just to annoy people." Great stuff.


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## ph0enix (Aug 12, 2009)

obed said:


> Here is what i know about being a badass; first, it is a realtive term, second, compared to me, everybody is a badass.


Same with fat guys. It's all relative.


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## Dumbod (Dec 31, 2004)

wgscott said:


> Partly because it is often a moral/ethical decision, not just a diet/health decision. If you decide never to consume or use animals so that they won't be killed or exploited, it is hard not to think about it in morally superior terms.


I love irony. You take me to task for what was clearly a rhetorical device and, in any event, targeted at the OP and not at you with whom I have never had any interaction (to my knowledge) and, in doing so, prove my point.

Thank you.


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## Hiro11 (Dec 18, 2010)

Jay Strongbow said:


> My guess is that you, being new, have yet to realize what constitues "can ride like badasses" and these guys ain't actually it despite being able to impress a new cyclist.
> 
> There are some fat guys who do pretty well on the flats but odds of an entire group of guys with huge guts being badass cyclists are pretty close to 0%. They may be badass compared to a new cyclist, and certain individuals may be outright badass themself but statistically there's just no way a group of fat guys are all bad ass cyclists unless they are like an national fat guy all-star team or something like that.


Yeah, I was going to say... we need to put this whole "fat bad ass" idea in some context. I can safely say that the guys with guts are first off the back in my group, and we're hardly fast. It's really, really hard to climb with an extra 50 lbs.


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## Doug B (Sep 11, 2009)

OldZaskar said:


> There's a simple answer to why "95% of the riders have large guts." That's simply bulls**t. Unless you've found a group sponsored by Krispy Kreme averaging 11 mph on those group rides, you're not going to see almost every rider at a group ride with "huge stomachs".
> 
> All the comments about eating more than you burn are accurate, but that's not the basis on this one.


Hmm. I resemble that remark. I need to see if Dunkin a Donuts sponsors a team.


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## Hiro11 (Dec 18, 2010)

Dumbod said:


> Why are so many vegans self-righteous prats?
> 
> I'm not trying to be deragatory (sic) or offend anyone, but I'm honestly asking opinions about why this phenomenon exists.
> 
> ...


You seem to think people who are skinny are doing it to spite you.


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## pete2528ca (Jun 17, 2011)

I love meat.


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## dnice (Jul 12, 2012)

agree with OP, but the worst part of it is--they're mostly faster than me. that is, at least until the road turns sharply uphill. it seems to me that the human body just gets efficient at the task. as has been noted, many don' adjust their diet 'cause, you know--cyclist!

edit: btw, anyone else notice that a big gut seems to be the norm amongst older male mammals?


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## Keoki (Feb 13, 2012)

Interesting… the main reason why I ride is so to maintain my six pack. I rarely see fat roadies on the road.


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## wgscott (Jul 14, 2013)

Dumbod said:


> I love irony. You take me to task for what was clearly a rhetorical device and, in any event, targeted at the OP and not at you with whom I have never had any interaction (to my knowledge) and, in doing so, prove my point.
> 
> Thank you.


Wow. How did you get _that_ out of what I typed?

I'm not a vegan. You asked why they are self-righteous, and I suggested a reason (based on my knowledge of some vegans, including one of my former grad students, who, despite all this, is one of the nicest people I know, and one of the best cyclists I know.) I was actually trying to answer this as objectively as possible, assuming it was an honest question. (Maybe it wasn't.)


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## Social Climber (Jan 16, 2013)

wgscott said:


> Wow. How did you get _that_ out of what I typed?
> 
> I'm not a vegan. You asked why they are self-righteous, and I suggested a reason (based on my knowledge of some vegans, including one of my former grad students, who, despite all this, is one of the nicest people I know, and one of the best cyclists I know.) I was actually trying to answer this as objectively as possible, assuming it was an honest question. (Maybe it wasn't.)


He just proved you don't need to be a vegan to be a self-righteous prat.


Talk about irony . . .


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## RIL49 (Apr 27, 2012)

I got to this dance late. I do have a few observations, however. Way back when I was a runner, big bellies were a rarity, really non existant. However, in cycling, big bellies do make their presence. If a big bellied person enjoys cycling and its benefits, all the more power to him / her. You can get away with fun and physical fitness on a bike as a heavy person where in running, injury and disappointment ruin everything. Enjoy.

And no, I am not a big bellied person. I do appreciate their effort and enjoyment in the sport that I also like.


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## fourdetrance (Mar 30, 2014)

Wow! This thread just got juicer than some of the nasty burgers that the aforementioned cyclists scarf down after a ride... I'm sure that almost every poster on here that took offense does the same or something similar. Feeling guilty about something? I can understand how this subject of obesity can be a sensitive one, especially if you've been battling a weight problem without progress.

Yes, I'm a vegan and I don't do oil either, so I eat a plant based diet with no added oils. Yes, I look and feel amazing! The group that I originally posted about (The Gut Riders) aren't riding at 19-24mph pace average for a century! I'm just saying that as in "badass", I would think that carrying weight like that would wind them earlier on. 

I ride at an avg of 18-21 mph and I get in about 200-350 mile per week. Not amazing, but keeping me in shape nonetheless. I have every summer off, so my mileage increases during that training time.

I've been a vegan for many years now and I'm used to the constant barrage of negativity and stupid questions about protein, b12, iron or enter nutritionally uneducated subject here "_____________?!?!?" You'd firgure that with riding the speed that I do with the amount of miles I put in per week for many years, that if I had some sort of deficiency, it would have come up by now, but NOPE! Blood work is always amazing and people just assume that the reason I'm so fit and look great is due to having beautiful genetics. I actually have a family history of hypertension, diabetes and a few other things that are *supposed* to happen to me genetically, but I keep them all at bay by eating right and excising a lot.

Before I went vegan, I was an endurance runner (1/2 marathons and marathons) and I was still over weight. I had shin splints that wouldn't ever heal, so I had a friend that turned me on to cycling. The combination of going no-added-oil vegan and cycling brought me from 210lbs to 140-145lbs that I am now. I refuse to accept (from personal experience) that exercising like a madman and eating the typical western diet will keep me healthy. There has to be the combination of eating a plant based diet AND exercising that will do the trick. I do realize that each of us are different, but I have witnessed the same results with 11 other people as well. 

Six of the eleven people I just mentioned didn't even have to exercise as hard as I do, they only had to eat right (plant based), did moderate exercise and came off of multiple medications, lost weight and gained back lost kidney function because they were in renal failure at the time. No one else can ever tell me any different because I witnessed all of that with my own eyes. 

Someone mentioned a friend being vegan and still having heart attacks, strokes, et al., but there is such a thing as being vegan and still eating an unhealthy diet: oreos, coke/ sodas, Mcdonald's fries, olive/ coconut/ palm oil, vegan cookies, vegan processed crap is all still considered vegan. Not healthy by any means, but technically vegan. Thank you all for your kind words!


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## Oxtox (Aug 16, 2006)

fourdetrance said:


> ...I'm so fit and look great!


bully for you, bro.

my omnivore diet produces exactly the same results.


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## Pirx (Aug 9, 2009)

fourdetrance said:


> Yes, I'm a vegan and I don't do oil either, so I eat a plant based diet with no added oils.


Poor thing.



fourdetrance said:


> I look and feel amazing!


[Shrug...] So what? I eat the kind of diet that humans have evolved to subsist on, which of course includes all sorts of things. As a result, I'm faster than you, and better looking, so there.

Oh, and I don't believe in your good looks in the first place. At least I've never met a good-looking vegan. All I have ever seen is these miserable half-starved creatures that, upon inquiry, just so happen to all be vegans. Thanks, but no thanks...


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## Retro Grouch (Apr 30, 2002)

fourdetrance said:


> Yes, I'm a vegan and I don't do oil either, so I eat a plant based diet with no added oils. Yes, I look and feel amazing!












Yes, you do look great! 

Although, you may want to shave your legs so eveyone can admire your muscular calves as you drop those fat-bellied riders


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## bvber (Apr 23, 2011)

I think we need some visual reference to know what OP is talking about.

OldZaskar, when you say large gut, did you mean something like this
https://www.sickchirpse.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/02/Attractive-Cyclists-fat-cyclist.jpg

or this 
https://i122.photobucket.com/albums/o260/TomStormcrowe/Tuor de Cure 2009/Tom.jpg

or this?
https://bikenoob.files.wordpress.com/2008/10/atthestart2.jpg

I'm asking because depending on where you live, people have different perception of what "large gut" is.


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## SauronHimself (Nov 21, 2012)

bvber said:


> I think we need some visual reference to know what OP is talking about.
> 
> OldZaskar, when you say large gut, did you mean something like this
> https://www.sickchirpse.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/02/Attractive-Cyclists-fat-cyclist.jpg
> ...


Sometimes you have to wonder why threads like this even exist. Except for self-serving purposes, I see no practical application.


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## fourdetrance (Mar 30, 2014)

You guys are silly! Given the amount of attention that I'm getting about being amazing, it is self-serving now. I love how everyone gets up in arms when they feel as guilty as most of these folks do. Please, keep it coming- I'm loving it!


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## Alaska Mike (Sep 28, 2008)

Life without pork fat and butter is not worth living. Moderation in all things.

And OP, if you are happy with the way you look and feel, great. Others may disagree with you, but perceptions are interesting (and variable) things. I've found that the more I've been convinced that something is true, the more likely it actually isn't. You may be right, you may be wrong, but I'm not giving up bacon.


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## dot (Mar 4, 2004)

fourdetrance said:


> Before I went vegan, I was an endurance runner (1/2 marathons and marathons) and I was still over weight. I had shin splints that wouldn't ever heal, so I had a friend that turned me on to cycling. The combination of going no-added-oil vegan and cycling brought me from 210lbs to 140-145lbs that I am now.


Oh gawd, another "success" story. Poor boy. 

pity these fools who ebrace all these diet "*religions*"


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## Donn12 (Apr 10, 2012)

it is diet but it is also that they are not riding enough distance and not riding hard enough. in other words: you can eat whatever you want IF you train enough. you are probably riding with veteran cyclists that do put in some miles but if you wee to join a serious club with guys training for races you would not see many guts.

I started cycling at 215 lbs and dropped to 193 pretty quickly. If I were to to strive to look perfect I could drop another 10 lbs but I don't care. I eat everything I want and lots of it


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## Donn12 (Apr 10, 2012)

"This thread just got juicer than some of the nasty burgers that the aforementioned cyclists scarf down after a ride."

Now I'm sad. I had a burger last night. but I did put lettuce and onions on it so should I get some credit from the vegans? I even cooked it almost to 160... I am actually grilling more fish and pork tenderloins now than steak and i have been feeling pretty proud of that!


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## Jay Strongbow (May 8, 2010)

I'm not sure why the OP is patting himself on the back for having once been a lardass and needing to resort to eating rabbit food to get a handle on it.

It's like seeking credit and loving yourself for kicking a crack habit by joining a whacked out cult. Great you quit and all but if you want to give credit give it the the people who were never dumb enough take up crack in the first place.


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## dot (Mar 4, 2004)

Jay Strongbow said:


> I'm not sure why the OP is patting himself on the back for having once been a lardass and needing to resort to eating rabbit food to get a handle on it.


Someone has to. He's forced to make it for himself since no one else does...  
They will never stop posting. 

I have learned today that Robert Förster is 177 cm tall and 81 kg ... Shame on me for being a turtle.


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## ph0enix (Aug 12, 2009)

fourdetrance said:


> Wow! This thread just got juicer than some of the nasty burgers that the aforementioned cyclists scarf down after a ride... I'm sure that almost every poster on here that took offense does the same or something similar. Feeling guilty about something? I can understand how this subject of obesity can be a sensitive one, especially if you've been battling a weight problem without progress.
> 
> Yes, I'm a vegan and I don't do oil either, so I eat a plant based diet with no added oils. Yes, I look and feel amazing! The group that I originally posted about (The Gut Riders) aren't riding at 19-24mph pace average for a century! I'm just saying that as in "badass", I would think that carrying weight like that would wind them earlier on.
> 
> ...


Just like you choose to swear by your diet, I can choose to swear by genetics. There are plenty of studies showing that improving diet has very little effect on hereditary health issues like heart disaease, for example. My grandmother had coronary artery disease (+ hypertension) and died of it. My father has had hypertension since his early 20s and now has the coronary artery disease as well. Let's say he's not a good example because he really hadn't been taking care of himself for most of his life and only quit smoking a few years ago after a bypass surgery. I, on the other hand, have never smoked and I've been exercising pretty much all my life. I also have been eating fairly healthy (perhaps not according to you) since I was diagnosed with hypertension a few years back (I was in my mid-30s then). At that time I made pretty drastic changes to my diet. I can tell you that doing so made no difference whatsoever in my blood work results. According to all the doctors I've talked to, diet and exercise can maybe improve your health by 5-10% but they're not going to affect it drastically if you have crappy genetics so consider yourself lucky since you didn't inherit diseases from your parents and grandparents but I wouldn't necessarily attribute that to your life style choices.

Let's not put McDonald's fries in the same category as olive or coconut oil either. While you might not agree, there is plenty of evidence that those oils have rather positive effects on our health.


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## JasonB176 (Aug 18, 2011)

I lost 40 pounds by following the paleo diet along with cycling and strength training. My cycling always contains intervals and I believe elevating heart rate is very important both for losing weight and its training benefits.

I’ve plateaued for the last three years at 160 pounds at 5’8”. I’d love to lose at least another 5 pounds but I know it would require significant changes in my diet. Since losing the weight, I’m far less strict on the paleo. It’s okay to maintain but not break through to the next level.

Paleo eating is easy for me as I love meat. I can’t imagine being vegan. I’d rather be fat and out of shape. Fortunately being reasonably fit and thin aren’t dependent upon veganism.


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## ph0enix (Aug 12, 2009)

score said:


> I do agree that OP is a garbage bait post. Hopefully the mods will recognize it as such and lock.


While the post maybe a little out there, I see no need for censorship. There is too much of it all around as it is.


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## ruckus (Apr 1, 2014)

For me what I observe...

The bigger the belly, the bigger the pricetag on the bike. I find good cyclists don't care if their bike is a Venge, Tarmac, Cervelo R3 or whatever dumb name they use. The better the cyclist, the less the equipment matters. 

I also think it's interesting on Youtube when I watch the CAT 2/3 races, these phenomenal cyclists aren't riding the best. It's very rare to see a Cannondale EVO, but it's common to see CAAD 10. Even in the training videos these cyclist posts, their teammates aren't riding the best and the lightest and aren't weight weenies. They ride what allows them to perform and is reliable, that's my impression.

Pretty much if a see a fat person who claims he/she cycles. I expect this is a person who rides a BMC GF02 and supposedly rides centuries every weekend.

Fattest person at work claims he competes in marathons, iron man, triathlons etc. The rest of us claim we run 4-5 miles and cycle maybe 20 miles. Interesting it's the fattest one who is the best of us by 10 folds.


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## GearDaddy (Apr 1, 2004)

ruckus said:


> For me what I observe...
> 
> The bigger the belly, the bigger the pricetag on the bike. I find good cyclists don't care if their bike is a Venge, Tarmac, Cervelo R3 or whatever dumb name they use. The better the cyclist, the less the equipment matters.
> 
> ...


As far as those cat 2/3 racers, the ole "race what you can replace" adage applies.

I've learned not to judge a book by its cover. Yes, it's probably true that most of those "big gut" riders are not into racing and would probably be dropped on a climb of any significance. But, I've seen a few notable exceptions that could put out some serious watts. Whatever. I do not despair when seeing someone on a bike.

As far as diet - pfffffft. I eat Cap'n Crunch for breakfast, PB sandwiches for lunch, anything for dinner, drink large quantities of beer, and I've never had weight issues. It's pretty simple, i.e. calories in vs. calories out.


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## JCavilia (Sep 12, 2005)

score said:


> I do agree that OP is a garbage bait post. Hopefully the mods will recognize it as such and lock.


Gosh, I hope not. It's too entertaining.


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## ruckus (Apr 1, 2014)

I agree with anyone who says calories in and calories out.

I find it hilarious dieticions and supposed researchers are baffled why obesity is so high. It was low fat diet. Then it was low carb. Now it's low sugar and processed food. 

But over time, people are continuing to be more and more sedentary and continue to grow fatter no matter what the "researchers" recommend. Now some are saying the mechanism that tells the body to stop eating is broken. ROFL. 

There will always be an excuse for leading sedentary lifestyle. It's not your laziness. It's not your obsession with consumerism and wasting your life away on the net, your phone, tablet and any other must have product that doesn't require your to be off your butt... It's your diet! It's the evil sugar corporations! It's the _______ !


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## JCavilia (Sep 12, 2005)

Alaska Mike said:


> Life without pork fat and butter is not worth living. Moderation in all things.
> 
> And OP, if you are happy with the way you look and feel, great. Others may disagree with you, but perceptions are interesting (and variable) things. I've found that the more I've been convinced that something is true, the more likely it actually isn't. You may be right, you may be wrong, but I'm not giving up bacon.


And olive oil. That's essential to happiness, at least for this Italian-American. 

There's no religious zealot like a converted sinner, and there's no dietary zealot like a once-fat person who got healthier by an extreme diet.


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## upstateSC-rider (Aug 21, 2004)

GearDaddy said:


> As far as diet - pfffffft. I eat Cap'n Crunch for breakfast, PB sandwiches for lunch, anything for dinner, drink large quantities of beer, and I've never had weight issues. It's pretty simple, i.e. calories in vs. calories out.


I agree with calories in vs calories out, however, everyones metabolism is different, and if I ate your meals I'd be bigger than I already am, 5'8" 195lbs. 
I justify my seemingly low RMR by saying my body is so efficient that even a single Sam Adams goes straight to my huge gut.


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## ruckus (Apr 1, 2014)

upstateSC-rider said:


> I agree with calories in vs calories out, however, everyones metabolism is different, and if I ate your meals I'd be bigger than I already am, 5'8" 195lbs.
> I justify my seemingly low RMR by saying my body is so efficient that even a single Sam Adams goes straight to my huge gut.


Look for ways to increase your metabolism. For example when you cycle, are you cycling as hard as you can? Most people who just cruise, their effort is even less than walking. Green tea can help raise your metabolism supposedly.

My suspicion is that people overestimate their effort made on their bike. They believe because they rode for an hour, it must have been exercised when it may have been equivalent to walking for 20 minutes.


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## Pirx (Aug 9, 2009)

fourdetrance said:


> Given the amount of attention that I'm getting about being amazing, it is self-serving now.


Yep, you are amazing. Awesome. Unbelievable. We crave seeing more posts from you. Please, tell us more about how amazing you really are. I'm sure we haven't seen half of it so far. We're on the edges of our seats.


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## Social Climber (Jan 16, 2013)

ruckus said:


> For me what I observe...
> 
> The bigger the belly, the bigger the pricetag on the bike. I find good cyclists don't care if their bike is a Venge, Tarmac, Cervelo R3 or whatever dumb name they use. The better the cyclist, the less the equipment matters.


Interesting, I have not observed that at all. I ride with all sorts of groups and have never noticed any correlation between body fat and bike price. 

Now if you want to talk about AGE, that might be a different story. 

I think people tend to ride what they can afford.


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## Social Climber (Jan 16, 2013)

ruckus said:


> My suspicion is that people overestimate their effort made on their bike. They believe because they rode for an hour, it must have been exercised when it may have been equivalent to walking for 20 minutes.


Trainer Road was a rude awakening for me. I used to measure calories expended based on heart rate, using an HRM. Now when I use Trainer Road it measures calories based on power output, which is more accurate and, unfortunately, tends to result in much lower numbers.


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## Alfonsina (Aug 26, 2012)

Social Climber said:


> Trainer Road was a rude awakening for me. I used to measure calories expended based on heart rate, using an HRM. Now when I use Trainer Road it measures calories based on power output, which is more accurate and, unfortunately, tends to result in much lower numbers.


 Trainer road's power is just another mathematical extrapolation, it is not actual power, you can do the math at cycling analytic for a similar result? Is that the same math? That actually gives me more calories than my Garmin 910 or my garmin edge 500. My 910 went through a period of great generosity that my 500 certainly did not echo, but suddenly it is at a very similar number. I think unless it is actual power, we are all reliant on some algorithm, I say assume it is at least 20% overly generous and it seems fair enough.


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## Samfujiabq (Jul 3, 2013)

Jay Strongbow said:


> I'm not sure why the OP is patting himself on the back for having once been a lardass and needing to resort to eating rabbit food to get a handle on it.
> 
> It's like seeking credit and loving yourself for kicking a crack habit by joining a whacked out cult. Great you quit and all but if you want to give credit give it the the people who were never dumb enough take up crack in the first place.


+1,good comment!


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## Duane Behrens (Nov 8, 2013)

ph0enix said:


> While the post maybe a little out there, I see no need for censorship. There is too much of it all around as it is.


I've just reported you for being both logical AND reasonable. Not sure, but I think that's automatic double secret probation.


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## n2deep (Mar 23, 2014)

This thread cracks me up!! Sounds like someone never left high school and needs the pretty people to validate his worth? 

Hate to admit it but I have a big bellie, grey hair and ugly as a toad.. So what,, I love to ride so just spare us uglies the snide comments and we will be out of you way soon!! BTW you will most likely be looking at our tail lights as we pass you....


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## SauronHimself (Nov 21, 2012)

There is undoubtedly much subjectivity in what constitutes a big gut/belly. I think the closest approximation to an objective rule is this: If you look down and can't see your John Harrison, then your gut is too big.


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## nOOky (Mar 20, 2009)

That's not fair, I'm hung like a light switch. I can't even see it with my reading glasses and Google maps street view to guide me 

Some comments about cyclists with big bellies. Cycling is a load bearing activity, so sitting on the bike riding it's more or less aerodynamics versus power etc. Big heavy guys tend to have big strong legs from carrying all that weight around all day. Consequentially some of these guys are pretty fast on the flats, and they can get away with it. Tilt the road up and of course they are off the back. Cycling lets a bigger guy get away with pushing some decent speeds for the effort.

Conversely, you pretty much never see a 260 pound guy running 6 minute miles, not even downhill. Having to bear the entire weight of the body and propel it forward is much more of a chore.





SauronHimself said:


> There is undoubtedly much subjectivity in what constitutes a big gut/belly. I think the closest approximation to an objective rule is this: If you look down and can't see your John Harrison, then your gut is too big.


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## bvber (Apr 23, 2011)

SauronHimself said:


> There is undoubtedly much subjectivity in what constitutes a big gut/belly.


As I've mentioned earlier with image links, it depends on where you live. In So. Cal. there is much stricter standard than places like Houston, TX or Milwaukee, WI. 


> I think the closest approximation to an objective rule is this: If you look down and can't see your John Harrison, then your gut is too big.


In some places, that's considered not so big gut.


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## Dumbod (Dec 31, 2004)

fourdetrance said:


> Wow! This thread just got juicer than some of the nasty burgers that the aforementioned cyclists scarf down after a ride... I'm sure that almost every poster on here that took offense does the same or something similar. Feeling guilty about something? I can understand how this subject of obesity can be a sensitive one, especially if you've been battling a weight problem without progress.
> 
> 
> I ride at an avg of 18-21 mph and I get in about 200-350 mile per week. Not amazing, but keeping me in shape nonetheless. I have every summer off, so my mileage increases during that training time.


This paragraph puts it all into perspective for me. I actually feel kind of sorry for the OP. Think about it. He's riding 2.5-3 hours a day and, at 18-21 mph, he's still getting routinely smoked by "fat-bellied" riders who train less than half that time.

I'm not a particularly strong rider. I'm 60 years old and I only train for an 1-1.5 hours a day but I still average 18-21 mph. It would frost my butt if I had to train as hard as the OP only to achieve such mediocre results. We need to cut him some slack.


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## SauronHimself (Nov 21, 2012)

nOOky said:


> That's not fair, I'm hung like a light switch.


Are you implying that practically anyone can turn you on?


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## Pirx (Aug 9, 2009)

No, I think he was referring to size. Something like this, is my guess:


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## Camilo (Jun 23, 2007)

fourdetrance said:


> I didn't want to flat out say it, but you did- and I applaud! I noticed the post-ride meals that these folks were eating and I'm always floored at the excuses they have about how they are basically entitled to eat like that because they just rode x amount of miles. It's some kind of wacky justification to eat bad because they assume that the calories burned gives them permission to eat garbage. I thought I was the only one that was surprised about this paradox.


Maybe they simply enjoy eating and don't really care all that much if they have a few extra pounds. Life is more than BMI and appearance. Many of us are imperfect and don't care. Lots of us enjoy food many consider "garbage" just because, well... we enjoy it and aren't obsessed with a few extra pounds. Life's too short to be rigid and obsessed about diet, imho.

As for me, I do indeed use cycling and other exercise as a reason I can enjoy more food and drink without becoming horribly obese. I'm just slightly obese, and am fine with it. (5-8, 160-165)


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## pigpen (Sep 28, 2005)

As a big bellied cyclist I am offended.

Oh how I love my beer.


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## Camilo (Jun 23, 2007)

ruckus said:


> For me what I observe...
> 
> The bigger the belly, the bigger the pricetag on the bike. I find good cyclists don't care if their bike is a Venge, Tarmac, Cervelo R3 or whatever dumb name they use. The better the cyclist, the less the equipment matters.
> 
> ...


Ah, an interesting variation on the old saw that "crummy" riders have "good" bikes (and the implication that they don't deserve them).

OK, is a rider "crummy" because he or she is a little over weight and/or not fast? Is that the criterion? Or is a good rider simply someone who loves to ride, loves the bike as a machine and rides a lot just to ride, not necessarily to go fast or faster.

Bah. Fat guys and slow guys enjoy it as much as skinny guys and slow guys and therefore can really enjoy a high end bike.

As for your comparison, in _my_ experience, the reason some of those "good" riders have "whatever" bike and the old/slow/fat riders have the more expensive bike is simply economics. People buy what they can afford that meets their needs and desires. A cheap-ish bike will serve a racer very well, especially if that's what he can afford. A fat/old/slow biker can really enjoy a high end bike because they're light, good looking and work really well.


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## Notvintage (May 19, 2013)

Alaska Mike said:


> Life without pork fat and butter is not worth living. Moderation in all things.


Yes, and vodka and Belgian beer. Many "fit" Americans are obsessed over quantity of life not quality of life. If I had to give up tons of stuff to be a paper weight(I'm 5-8" and 155) and live perhaps eight more years I'd NOT DO it. But then, even some "fit" die young too. No guarantee being a gym rat is going to extend your life. Only a calorie deficient diet can do that I believe.


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## velodog (Sep 26, 2007)

Vegetables are what food eats.


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## Notvintage (May 19, 2013)

Andy69 said:


> I've known plenty of fat guys who were badasses. And I know they were badasses because they rode with other skinny badasses and more often than not were up front.


Absolutely. Anyone remember Jan Ullrich? He rocked a gut and got it done. Much cooler than the clowns weighing their food.


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## LVbob (Mar 24, 2014)

Notvintage said:


> Absolutely. Anyone remember Jan Ullrich? He rocked a gut and got it done. Much cooler than the clowns weighing their food.


Weighing their food? Even my sister is not that anal.


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## ruckus (Apr 1, 2014)

Jan should have spent more time training and losing that gut. Doping didn't do much for him, way to go and get banned and his reputation and legacy will forever be remembered as a loser. Wasn't rocking anything to me.

Anyway, if you're serious about cycling and planning to spend a lot of time on your bike, there is no excuse. Stop being a fattie. 10k bike will still make you a ridiculous pathetic looking fattier. Who cares what you do to lose weight, change diet, aware of caloric intake, take cross fit classes. Who cares. Nothing will improve your cycling more than stop being a fattie. No excuses.

Don't be that person sitting on a 5k carbon with full SRAM Red and saying you can ride centuries and race or do triathlons or ride 30 mph. No one should take you seriously, they should laugh at you cause you're still a WHALE!


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## junior1210 (May 2, 2013)

Notvintage said:


> Yes, and vodka and Belgian beer. Many "fit" Americans are obsessed over quantity of life not quality of life. If I had to give up tons of stuff to be a paper weight(I'm 5-8" and 155) and live perhaps eight more years I'd NOT DO it. But then, even some "fit" die young too. No guarantee being a gym rat is going to extend your life. Only a calorie deficient diet can do that I believe.


True. A co-worker died two days ago from a blood clot. She was in very good shape. Died at the age of 22. She will be missed.


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## ruckus (Apr 1, 2014)

5'8 and 155 with plenty of muscular development? That's not fat, that's fit. Plenty of people have 30-31" waist and weigh more than you. When I call people fatties, they are fatties. Not fit, muscular, folks who weight enough that something retarded called BMI would consider them obese.

And yes we have all heard about some person who runs marathons and dropped dead from a stroke/coronary arrest etc. But overall, not being a fattie = better quality of life. 

I don't think anyone sane would say to be fit and healthy would require giving up all of life's pleasures involving beverages and food. But gluttony is just gross and serious character flaw, demonstrating lack of self control and discipline. 

Just don't be that fattie on a $10K carbon bike. You look like a dumbass.


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## velodog (Sep 26, 2007)

ruckus said:


> Jan should have spent more time training and losing that gut. Doping didn't do much for him, way to go and get banned and his reputation and legacy will forever be remembered as a loser. Wasn't rocking anything to me.


He rocked a little more than your mockery of him would have yourself believing.

Cycling Hall of Fame.com


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## SauronHimself (Nov 21, 2012)

ruckus said:


> Jan should have spent more time training and losing that gut. Doping didn't do much for him, way to go and get banned and his reputation and legacy will forever be remembered as a loser. Wasn't rocking anything to me.


It's easy to remember someone as a loser when he had professional contracts and you didn't.


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## stanseven (Nov 9, 2011)

nOOky said:


> Some comments about cyclists with big bellies. Cycling is a load bearing activity, so sitting on the bike riding it's more or less aerodynamics versus power etc. Big heavy guys tend to have big strong legs from carrying all that weight around all day. Consequentially some of these guys are pretty fast on the flats, and they can get away with it. Tilt the road up and of course they are off the back. Cycling lets a bigger guy get away with pushing some decent speeds for the effort.


Good point. While you really address serous cyclists that push themselves, many other overweight riders are that way because they sit and pedal at a leisurely pace. You just lose weight when your heart rate is at 55-60% of max.


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## Social Climber (Jan 16, 2013)

Notvintage said:


> Yes, and vodka and Belgian beer. Many "fit" Americans are obsessed over quantity of life not quality of life. If I had to give up tons of stuff to be a paper weight(I'm 5-8" and 155) and live perhaps eight more years I'd NOT DO it. But then, even some "fit" die young too. No guarantee being a gym rat is going to extend your life. Only a calorie deficient diet can do that I believe.


It's not only about how long you live, it's also about the quality of your time on this earth. Your quality of life is likely to be a lot higher if you are in good physical shape. BTW 5'8" 155 isn't bad.


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## obed (Jan 12, 2014)

guys with big bellies being faster than me is no big deal...
but.... I was on my way home from my weekend morning ride a few weeks back and I saw what appeared to be a roller derby queen a few blocks ahead of me... that girl had a butt that had to be an axe handle and a half wide... and try as I may, I simply could not catch her... I wanted to see what kind of bike could hold her up.


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## Notvintage (May 19, 2013)

ruckus said:


> I also think it's interesting on Youtube when I watch the CAT 2/3 races, these phenomenal cyclists aren't riding the best. It's very rare to see a Cannondale EVO, but it's common to see CAAD 10.


There is a reason for that working class hero. Smart racers who aren't paid to race bikes typically race an inexpensive whip, and leave the nice bike at home. I know I did. Raced an aluminum Cannondale, and left my Colnago at home safe.


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## bvber (Apr 23, 2011)

obed said:


> guys with big bellies being faster than me is no big deal...
> but.... I was on my way home from my weekend morning ride a few weeks back and I saw what appeared to be a roller derby queen a few blocks ahead of me... that girl had a butt that had to be an axe handle and a half wide... and try as I may, I simply could not catch her... I wanted to see what kind of bike could hold her up.


Due to difference in bodily weight distribution of man vs woman, likely she is lighter elsewhere.


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## Winn (Feb 15, 2013)

bvber said:


> Due to difference in bodily weight distribution of man vs woman, likely she is lighter elsewhere.


Maybe it was electrically assisted...


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## fourdetrance (Mar 30, 2014)

ruckus said:


> Jan should have spent more time training and losing that gut. Doping didn't do much for him, way to go and get banned and his reputation and legacy will forever be remembered as a loser. Wasn't rocking anything to me.
> 
> Anyway, if you're serious about cycling and planning to spend a lot of time on your bike, there is no excuse. Stop being a fattie. 10k bike will still make you a ridiculous pathetic looking fattier. Who cares what you do to lose weight, change diet, aware of caloric intake, take cross fit classes. Who cares. Nothing will improve your cycling more than stop being a fattie. No excuses.
> 
> Don't be that person sitting on a 5k carbon with full SRAM Red and saying you can ride centuries and race or do triathlons or ride 30 mph. No one should take you seriously, they should laugh at you cause you're still a WHALE!


Well said! I thought I was the only one feeling this way.


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## ruckus (Apr 1, 2014)

Winn said:


> Maybe it was electrically assisted...


Good point. Assisted bikes are getting more popular. There are even bikes with iPhone apps that control the motor. I predict their popularity will only grow.


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## fourdetrance (Mar 30, 2014)

JCavilia said:


> And olive oil. That's essential to happiness, at least for this Italian-American.
> 
> There's no religious zealot like a converted sinner, and there's no dietary zealot like a once-fat person who got healthier by an extreme diet.


"Italian-American"?? When was the last time you were in your "homeland" for more than a week's visit, paisan? I lived in Sicily for four years and they didn't gulp down their olive oil like the 'mericans do. It's this addiction to fat that the US has and they use other countries or even better, studies funded by the exact producers of the food as justification to overindulge. U S A!!

This is why skinny, fit LOOKING people still die of blood clots, high cholesterol, heart disease, et al. They *look* fit on the outside, but oil, MFCAs, coconut oil, palm oil, ANIMAL fat or whatever the current industry-trend is telling you is "healthy," causes the vessels in the body to tighten up, vasoconstriction and also creates damage in the endothelial lining of the arteries thus causing narrowing arterial space as well as white blood cells to clot and wreak all kinds of havoc on the body. You're welcome.


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## jfaas (Jan 31, 2014)

fourdetrance said:


> but oil, MFCAs, coconut oil, palm oil, ANIMAL fat or whatever the current industry-trend is telling you is "healthy," causes the vessels in the body to tighten up, vasoconstriction and also creates damage in the endothelial lining of the arteries


You forgot Sodium. You're Welcome.


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## quikrick1 (Sep 28, 2011)

fourdetrance said:


> You guys are silly! Given the amount of attention that I'm getting about being amazing, it is self-serving now. I love how everyone gets up in arms when they feel as guilty as most of these folks do. Please, keep it coming- I'm loving it!


Isn't this the text book definition of a troll?


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## bvber (Apr 23, 2011)

fourdetrance said:


> but oil, MFCAs, coconut oil, palm oil, ANIMAL fat or whatever the current industry-trend is telling you is "healthy," causes the vessels in the body to tighten up, vasoconstriction and also creates damage in the endothelial lining of the arteries thus causing narrowing arterial space as well as white blood cells to clot and wreak all kinds of havoc on the body. You're welcome.


Says Ancel Keyes? Modern Nutrition Policy is Based on Lies and Bad Science


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## Pirx (Aug 9, 2009)

bvber said:


> Says Ancel Keyes? Modern Nutrition Policy is Based on Lies and Bad Science


Absolutely. I always cringe when I hear various idiots going on about how this or that type of nutritional strategy is bad for you, and those low-fat morons are the worst offenders in that area. Plus, they're among the main reasons (the other being general human stupidity, and profit margins of the industry) that it becomes harder and harder to find, say, real yoghurt in your grocery store. All they're selling now is this low-fat or even no-fat crap, that has nothing to do with yoghurt. O.k., off the soapbox now...


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## LVbob (Mar 24, 2014)

quikrick1 said:


> Isn't this the text book definition of a troll?


No! It's the definition of both arrogant and self-important.


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## MXL (Jun 26, 2012)

My manta is: Eat to ride. Ride to eat.


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## fourdetrance (Mar 30, 2014)

jfaas said:


> You forgot Sodium. You're Welcome.


Oh yeah sodium! Stay away from the 3 white poisons: Salt, sugar and cocaine! Not sure if that last one is in the same category, but I'm pretty sure it's no good for you.

What detriment is sodium besides temporary fluid retention in the body and cause it to POSSIBLY (and that's a BIG possibly because it's all in caps) cause mild hypertension due to the said fluid retention? I can see if someone goes ape nuts with the salt, but a little is okay- not the same for oil unless the oil comes in the package that nature intended: whole foods. Pouring olive oil all over a dish and calling it The Mediterranean Diet is a big Texas size helping of horse doo-doo.

I only eat salt on the dish AFTER it has been cooked salt-free or low-sodium. We buy no-salt beans, no salt everything at the store. We don't eat out anymore because of all these things.


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## fourdetrance (Mar 30, 2014)

MXL said:


> My manta is: Eat to ride. Ride to eat.


Nice mantra, I dig it!


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## fourdetrance (Mar 30, 2014)

LVbob said:


> No! It's the definition of both arrogant and self-important.


Indeed LVbob! Thanks for pointing that out because I didn't want to have to be condescending (that means I talk down to people) and that would take a whole lot of effort. ;-) 

"arrogant and self-important", you say that as if it's a bad thing! I feel arrogant and self-important now and I thought you guys didn't like me!! Here I was worrying about losing sleep over this thread on a forum on the Internet.


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## fourdetrance (Mar 30, 2014)

Pirx said:


> Absolutely. I always cringe when I hear various idiots going on about how this or that type of nutritional strategy is bad for you, and those low-fat morons are the worst offenders in that area. Plus, they're among the main reasons (the other being general human stupidity, and profit margins of the industry) that it becomes harder and harder to find, say, real yoghurt in your grocery store. All they're selling now is this low-fat or even no-fat crap, that has nothing to do with yoghurt. O.k., off the soapbox now...


Prix, all your posts look like your avatar- agitated and painful! Here's the scoop fat-loving citizen: I lost tons of weight and feel (and look) 100% better after becoming an oil-free vegan. It works for me, if it doesn't work for you, then run (or cycle) to another grocery store and find your full-fat yogurt, honey buns. Case solved, we can both sleep better tonight knowing that we can both be happy, no? 

You tell me fellow cyclist: would you rather lose 10 pounds buying a carbon fiber bike that costs 10k or more OR lose 60 pounds by changing your diet and keeping the old trusty 18lb aluminum bike? No brainier, huh? I chose the latter and wow, and I now pass those fat-loving yogurt cyclists up on the hills because I'm 60lbs lighter. I don't like debt and I don't like obesity: seems like a win-win situation here. Thank you for your time!


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## Pirx (Aug 9, 2009)

fourdetrance said:


> It works for me,


Well, sure, as long as you believe it. Otherwise, it means nothing.



fourdetrance said:


> You tell me fellow cyclist: would you rather lose 10 pounds buying a carbon fiber bike that costs 10k or more OR lose 60 pounds by changing your diet and keeping the old trusty 18lb aluminum bike? No brainier, huh?


Yep, absolutely: I want that carbon bike, and I can afford it, too, without blinking an eye. Rides so much nicer than that aluminum thing. Oh, and if I lost 60 pounds, I'd end up in the hospital; that would put me roughly at the weight I was when I was 14 or so.



fourdetrance said:


> I chose the latter and wow, and I now pass those fat-loving yogurt cyclists up on the hills because I'm 60lbs lighter.


From what you write, chances are that I'd whoop your skinny butt any day of the week, on any climb you choose my friend. The fact that you were once a fat pig has very little bearing on anything. I just so happen to never have been in a position where I could have afforded to lose 60 pounds.

I'll tell you a secret: Eating fat and consuming oil doesn't make you fat. Psst, don't tell anybody, but here's here's the top secret part: It's all about the amount you consume. Totally amazing, when you think about it, isn't it?


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## Pirx (Aug 9, 2009)

MXL said:


> My manta is.


You have a manta? How big is that aquarium you have? How do you feed it?


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## LVbob (Mar 24, 2014)

fourdetrance said:


> Indeed LVbob! Thanks for pointing that out because I didn't want to have to be condescending (that means I talk down to people) and that would take a whole lot of effort. ;-)
> 
> "arrogant and self-important", you say that as if it's a bad thing! I feel arrogant and self-important now and I thought you guys didn't like me!! Here I was worrying about losing sleep over this thread on a forum on the Internet.


You just don't get it. Let me explain: nobody gives a rat's *** about how great you think you are and how great you think you look. You've been preaching your vegan diet like a converted sinner; it's a lifestyle choice and it's not supposed to be some kind of cult thin (yes, you are obsessed with it).


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## fourdetrance (Mar 30, 2014)

LVbob said:


> You just don't get it. Let me explain: nobody gives a rat's *** about how great you think you are and how great you think you look. You've been preaching your vegan diet like a converted sinner; it's a lifestyle choice and it's not supposed to be some kind of cult thin (yes, you are obsessed with it).


Heck yes (excuse the language) LVbob! Damn straight I'm obsessed with it because the results were so amazing. It's not how great *I* (as in me) think I look, but it's all the people telling me that I look so much more fit, skinny and wonderful compared to a little while back. So, obviously somebody (as in many people) has/ have taken notice and it seems like they give many "rat's a**es". You're welcome... again. Your copay will only be $40 this visit, but let's not make a habit of this LVbob. Sleep tight.


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## fourdetrance (Mar 30, 2014)

Pirx said:


> Well, sure, as long as you believe it. Otherwise, it means nothing.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Fair enough. Seeing is believing, as in my fitness level went from mediocre to team racing in a matter of a year BECAUSE of the lifestyle change. 

We could go on about how I could afford POS carbon fiber bike as well, paid full in cash or the ol' internet fighting of "I can beat you at": a climb, blah, blah, blah. Sure you can and I bet you can out sprint me and out distance me, etc. Where is this getting us? I concede. Until I find your a$$ on a hill...


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## LVbob (Mar 24, 2014)

fourdetrance said:


> Heck yes (excuse the language) LVbob! Damn straight I'm obsessed with it because the results were so amazing. It's not how great *I* (as in me) think I look, but it's all the people telling me that I look so much more fit, skinny and wonderful compared to a little while back. So, obviously somebody (as in many people) has/ have taken notice and it seems like they give many "rat's a**es". You're welcome... again. Your copay will only be $40 this visit, but let's not make a habit of this LVbob. Sleep tight.


Of course they think you look "amazing" - you went from being a tub of lard to someone who is in relatively good shape. I've never had to battle my weight but, if I did, I wouldn't assume that I would need to go vegan. I'd need to reduce my caloric intake. And, were I vegan (my niece was and didn't carry on about it like you do), I wouldn't assume that I was going to live any longer - I'd do it for whatever reason I chose and wouldn't care about others' approvals.

This thread has really been played out. You keep it going as a way to fill your insecurities


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## Pirx (Aug 9, 2009)

fourdetrance said:


> Fair enough. Seeing is believing, as in my fitness level went from mediocre to team racing in a matter of a year BECAUSE of the lifestyle change.


Heheh, very funny. The guy who "averages 18-21mph" (as in "sometimes I see speeds of 18-21mph indicated on my bicycle computer") and regularly gets cramps in his quads after a 50-mile ride is now "team racing". Hilarious. By the way, kiddo, maybe if you ate real food, you wouldn't get those cramps. Not that I know anything about it, I've never had any of those, ever. But then, I eat real food.


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## ruckus (Apr 1, 2014)

Pirx said:


> I'll tell you a secret: Eating fat and consuming oil doesn't make you fat. Psst, don't tell anybody, but here's here's the top secret part: It's all about the amount you consume. Totally amazing, when you think about it, isn't it?


That's not a secret. People are just unbelievably lazy. They blamed fats. Then they blamed carbohydrates. Now they blame sugar. No matter what diet changes they make, they continue to grow fatter. The only constant is that they make any excuse possible for why they don't exercise. Anyone I've talked to who claim they are too busy have ridiculous amount of free time. But TV takes priority and don't get enough sleep so can't wake up early and do what is important for their health.

While it's great you can buy carbon without a second thought, it has no impact on your health nor you ability to cycle. It's a moot point other than to brag you have more expendable income than most.


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## LVbob (Mar 24, 2014)

ruckus said:


> That's not a secret. People are just unbelievably lazy. They blamed fats. Then they blamed carbohydrates. Now they blame sugar. No matter what diet changes they make, they continue to grow fatter. The only constant is that they make any excuse possible for why they don't exercise. Anyone I've talked to who claim they are too busy have ridiculous amount of free time. But TV takes priority and don't get enough sleep so can't wake up early and do what is important for their health.


Exercising has a variety of benefits including helping with weight reduction but the weight battle is won or lost at the table, not on a treadmill or a bike.


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## Bridgestone (Sep 6, 2007)

fourdetrance said:


> Prix, all your posts look like your avatar- agitated and painful! Here's the scoop fat-loving citizen: I lost tons of weight and feel (and look) 100% better after becoming an oil-free vegan. It works for me, if it doesn't work for you, then run (or cycle) to another grocery store and find your full-fat yogurt, honey buns. Case solved, we can both sleep better tonight knowing that we can both be happy, no?
> 
> You tell me fellow cyclist: would you rather lose 10 pounds buying a carbon fiber bike that costs 10k or more OR lose 60 pounds by changing your diet and keeping the old trusty 18lb aluminum bike? No brainier, huh? I chose the latter and wow, and I now pass those fat-loving yogurt cyclists up on the hills because I'm 60lbs lighter. I don't like debt and I don't like obesity: seems like a win-win situation here. Thank you for your time!


Nobody likes you when your skinny, especially your kids who at half your age get their ass handed to them up hills. A low fat free-oil free vegan diet dropped 50 lbs off me, pissed off almost everybody I used to ride with. It's really nice to be able to ride the whole ride in the drops because your gut no longer gets in the way. I can eat as much as I want as long as it fits the criteria . Bill Clinton bought the kool aid after his heart attack so their must be something to it. TIC


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## fourdetrance (Mar 30, 2014)

Pirx said:


> Heheh, very funny. The guy who "averages 18-21mph" (as in "sometimes I see speeds of 18-21mph indicated on my bicycle computer") and regularly gets cramps in his quads after a 50-mile ride is now "team racing". Hilarious. By the way, kiddo, maybe if you ate real food, you wouldn't get those cramps. Not that I know anything about it, I've never had any of those, ever. But then, I eat real food.


My oh my! You're making me blush know you crazy stalker. Must have hit a serious nerve for you to jump threads. You naughty boy you! aaaaaaaaaaaaand... cramps never happen to non-vegans, right?


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## fourdetrance (Mar 30, 2014)

Bridgestone said:


> Nobody likes you when your skinny, especially your kids who at half your age get their ass handed to them up hills. A low fat free-oil free vegan diet dropped 50 lbs off me, pissed off almost everybody I used to ride with. It's really nice to be able to ride the whole ride in the drops because your gut no longer gets in the way. I can eat as much as I want as long as it fits the criteria . Bill Clinton bought the kool aid after his heart attack so their must be something to it. TIC


CAN I GET AN AMEN?!?!? Thank you! Dr Esselstyn, Dr Campbell, Jeff Novick, Dr Furhman, Dr Greger, are the people to be listening to, not these folks. Clinton went on Dr Esselstyn's advice and that's what saved him after his heart attack.


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## fourdetrance (Mar 30, 2014)

LVbob said:


> I'd need to reduce my caloric intake.


So, you're suggesting calorie restriction to lose weight? Bob, I thought you had a slight amount of intelligence, but damn, calorie restiction while being a cyclist? That's just plain stupid.


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## LVbob (Mar 24, 2014)

Jared "The Subway Guy" lost a bunch of weight too. I'm pretty sure his diet was not vegan- he just ate less and started exercising.


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## fourdetrance (Mar 30, 2014)

LVbob said:


> Jared "The Subway Guy" lost a bunch of weight too. I'm pretty sure his diet was not vegan- he just ate less and started exercising.


Priceless! You're using the subway guy for a point of reference?!?! Weren't you just giving some other user crap for the lack of his "SCIENTIFIC EVIDENCE"??? Then you hit me with Jared? I'd love to see subway's peer-reviewed medical journal submission on the Jared study. bwhahahahahaha This is the first time in a while that I literally laughed out loud from a post. 


You actually believe that he lost the weight in a healthy fashion?? We're now talking about a company's claim that a guy lost weight eating their food so they can make more money off of people like you that believe in that bs. 

Ok, ok- humor me: what kind of exercising did he do? How intense were his workouts? What was he eating on a daily basis? C'mon bob, you can't be serious about that subway thing. Geez, I think this horse is dead.


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## SauronHimself (Nov 21, 2012)

LVbob said:


> Jared "The Subway Guy" lost a bunch of weight too. I'm pretty sure his diet was not vegan- he just ate less and started exercising.


His diet wasn't very sustainable either and not just because of the cost of eating fast food all the time. Jared said his breakfast was just coffee. Lunch was usually just a 6" veggie sub, and dinner was typically a 6" chicken sub. Both lunch and dinner subs contained almost no condiments, and he drank either water or diet soda. Plus, of course, he did a lot of walking. The act of walking every day is an easily sustainable exercise, but his diet wasn't one that a person could feasibly live on and live with indefinitely. That last point is why fad diets don't work and why most people who go on diets to drop weight typically gain it all back when they return to their old ways. If you can't permanently change what you eat, then permanent weight loss and management are far less likely.


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## Pirx (Aug 9, 2009)

fourdetrance said:


> You're making me blush know you crazy stalker.


Technically, "stalking" in the context of forum postings would be for me to follow you to your other thread, and post there.



fourdetrance said:


> cramps never happen to non-vegans, right?


The point is, apparently they happen all the time to you. So, why don't you tell us what team you are racing for, Mr. Team Racer? What races have you done? How did you place? Inquiring minds want to know. After all, you wouldn't want to miss the chance to demonstrate to us the superiority of your lifestyle choices, now, would you? We're on the edges of our seats.


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## Bridgestone (Sep 6, 2007)

Pirx said:


> Technically, "stalking" in the context of forum postings would be for me to follow you to your other thread, and post there.
> 
> 
> 
> The point is, apparently they happen all the time to you. So, why don't you tell us what team you are racing for, Mr. Team Racer? What races have you done? How did you place? Inquiring minds want to know. After all, you wouldn't want to miss the chance to demonstrate to us the superiority of your lifestyle choices, now, would you? We're on the edges of our seats.


Get a life.


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## ruckus (Apr 1, 2014)

SauronHimself said:


> His diet wasn't very sustainable either and not just because of the cost of eating fast food all the time. Jared said his breakfast was just coffee. Lunch was usually just a 6" veggie sub, and dinner was typically a 6" chicken sub. Both lunch and dinner subs contained almost no condiments, and he drank either water or diet soda. Plus, of course, he did a lot of walking. The act of walking every day is an easily sustainable exercise, but his diet wasn't one that a person could feasibly live on and live with indefinitely. That last point is why fad diets don't work and why most people who go on diets to drop weight typically gain it all back when they return to their old ways. If you can't permanently change what you eat, then permanent weight loss and management are far less likely.


He shouldn't have done that in the first place. Instead of trying to cut down on calorie intake that was unhealthy for a man of his size, he should have made life changes that included healthy activities to burn those calories instead. Walking is not it. I know plenty of people who start their day with a 45 min walk every morning are still unhealthy. High cholesterol, high blood pressure and a physique that would throw me into depression. You actually have to do something that burns calories, a lot of it. 

Even cycling isn't that intensive for calorie burning unless you're pumping hard for 2 hours. I don't think for average person, running twenty minutes hard with 30 minutes of weight training can be beat for weight loss. Not everyone would have time to ride 20-30 miles a day.

And I'll be first in line to admit committing to doing something every day is hard. But exercising every day has so many benefits. Starting or ending your day with physical activity puts me in a good mood. All the crap and hormones and chemicals your body releases due to stress usually will linger about and just get worse over time leading to depression, behavioral issues, sleep issues, and soon diet issues etc. Exercise every 24-48 hours flushes your body of all that crap. I don't know the science of how, but fairly sure proven the best way for your body to get rid of all that junk and renew itself is physical exercise and activities.


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## fourdetrance (Mar 30, 2014)

Pirx said:


> Mr. Team Racer? What races have you done? How did you place?


Three cat 5 races. I wasn't first in any of them, but the made it in the top ten on the last race. The cramps are getting better, eating more bananas, but that's for the other thread. Thank for your concern though!


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## fourdetrance (Mar 30, 2014)

SauronHimself said:


> His diet wasn't very sustainable either and not just because of the cost of eating fast food all the time. Jared said his breakfast was just coffee. Lunch was usually just a 6" veggie sub, and dinner was typically a 6" chicken sub. Both lunch and dinner subs contained almost no condiments, and he drank either water or diet soda. Plus, of course, he did a lot of walking. The act of walking every day is an easily sustainable exercise, but his diet wasn't one that a person could feasibly live on and live with indefinitely. That last point is why fad diets don't work and why most people who go on diets to drop weight typically gain it all back when they return to their old ways. If you can't permanently change what you eat, then permanent weight loss and management are far less likely.


I believe it! Thank you for the post. It was a stunt and no corporation or company is to trusted that is making money from the public. They lie and they do it BIG. The lifestyle I chose let's me eat as much as I want because the food is all fruit and vegetables. I feel really good afterwards, but I'll probably get a barrage of negative responses now because I just explained my lifestyle and how good it makes me feel. 

I don't ever believe that calorie restriction (especially with intense running, cycling, crossfit, et al.) is the answers to losing weight. Thanks!


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## Pirx (Aug 9, 2009)

Bridgestone said:


> Get a life.


Thank you for your helpful advice. I admire how this is literally dripping with intelligence, and a deep insight into the human condition. Very impressive.



fourdetrance said:


> Three cat 5 races. I wasn't first in any of them, but the made it in the top ten on the last race. The cramps are getting better, eating more bananas, but that's for the other thread. Thank for your concern though!


Alright, now you've gained some respect. Since you're new, obviously you start in Cat 5, but getting into the top ten there isn't bad at all, all things considered. Keep it going! Who knows, you may be able to catch up with me one of these days...

Seriously, yes, the bananas are an excellent idea. Best damn exercise food you can have, even without the cramping problem.


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## fourdetrance (Mar 30, 2014)

ruckus said:


> He shouldn't have done that in the first place. Instead of trying to cut down on calorie intake that was unhealthy for a man of his size, he should have made life changes that included healthy activities to burn those calories instead. Walking is not it. I know plenty of people who start their day with a 45 min walk every morning are still unhealthy. High cholesterol, high blood pressure and a physique that would throw me into depression. You actually have to do something that burns calories, a lot of it.
> 
> Even cycling isn't that intensive for calorie burning unless you're pumping hard for 2 hours. I don't think for average person, running twenty minutes hard with 30 minutes of weight training can be beat for weight loss. Not everyone would have time to ride 20-30 miles a day.
> 
> And I'll be first in line to admit committing to doing something every day is hard. But exercising every day has so many benefits. Starting or ending your day with physical activity puts me in a good mood. All the crap and hormones and chemicals your body releases due to stress usually will linger about and just get worse over time leading to depression, behavioral issues, sleep issues, and soon diet issues etc. Exercise every 24-48 hours flushes your body of all that crap. I don't know the science of how, but fairly sure proven the best way for your body to get rid of all that junk and renew itself is physical exercise and activities.


WORD! Well said. I think (albiet many disagreements about lifestyle choices) we all exercise whether it be cycling, running, working out, etc. because it makes us feel good and gives us a sense of well-being. I have to cycle or run everyday because it does flush out the cortisol (the stress glucocorticoid produced by the adrenal) and let's me physically push myself to the max. 

When I ride solo, I try to keep my hr at about 145-155 with occasional 165-180 for a minute or two. That's the thing about riding with other people that I don't enjoy, everybody has their own pace and some are slow.

I'm lucky enough to have a wife that'll let me get out there for 2-3 hours a day, so when I ride or train, I want to take full advantage of the opportunity and push it. I see the value in sight-seeing rides with the family, but I'm cycling to stay in shape, not to see my county roads. Cycling is something that I have to do to stay sane.


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## fourdetrance (Mar 30, 2014)

Pirx said:


> Alright, now you've gained some respect. Since you're new, obviously you start in Cat 5, but getting into the top ten there isn't bad at all, all things considered. Keep it going! Who knows, you may be able to catch up with me one of these days...
> 
> Seriously, yes, the bananas are an excellent idea. Best damn exercise food you can have, even without the cramping problem.


Thank you for the reply! I'm trying to do my best and it feels weird to have two bananas sticking out of my jersey pockets, but I'd rather that than cramping up! 

Getting to know the ins and outs of racing is tedious and it all happens REALLY FAST! I swear, when you've got nothing left, drafting behind another cyclist feels like a gift from God! It's a nice comfortable place that I sometimes sit in for maybe a bit too long. Thank again and have a nice weekend.


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## Pirx (Aug 9, 2009)

fourdetrance said:


> Thank again and have a nice weekend.


Hey, same to you. I'm off to a ride now. It's windy, but we may even get close to the high sixties today.

P.S.: On riding with others, yes, you'll have to find a compatible group, but if it's a decent-size group, you can pick your exercise level to some degree by choosing how many and how long pulls you're taking. You get into a group that should be a bit too fast for you, and just hang in there with little or no pulling of your own (you'll find that the fear of getting dropped is an excellent motivator... ). As you get stronger, you can do more work, so you'll always be working at a level that fits you.


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## Bridgestone (Sep 6, 2007)

Pirx said:


> Thank you for your helpful advice. I admire how this is literally dripping with intelligence, and a deep insight into the human condition. Very impressive.


If you were a superior cyclist or half as intelligent of what you espouse here , you would not feel compelled to have to tell us about it, or use it as a argument to support your dietary position. There is always someone who is faster than you so basing your arguments on such holds little merit in proving your point. David Zabriskie raced The Tour De France, as a vegan., how do your times compare to him?


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## LVbob (Mar 24, 2014)

fourdetrance said:


> Priceless! You're using the subway guy for a point of reference?!?! Weren't you just giving some other user crap for the lack of his "SCIENTIFIC EVIDENCE"??? Then you hit me with Jared? I'd love to see subway's peer-reviewed medical journal submission on the Jared study. bwhahahahahaha This is the first time in a while that I literally laughed out loud from a post.
> 
> 
> You actually believe that he lost the weight in a healthy fashion?? We're now talking about a company's claim that a guy lost weight eating their food so they can make more money off of people like you that believe in that bs.
> ...


I never said this was scientific but his weight loss was apparently checked out pretty carefully before he was signed on as a pitchman. As far as exercising, he is a runner. It's all covered here (again, I know it's not scientific but I am not making nutritional recommendations which you seem to have missed) - Jared Fogle - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


From the Wikipedias article:


> On November 7, 2010, Fogle completed the New York City Marathon in 5 hours, 13 minutes and 28 seconds. Jared, wearing bib number 57-459, finished in 36,968th place out of 44,829 runners who finished the race.


I really have no stake in this. I'm 60 years old, 6'1" and weigh 175 pounds with a 33" waist. I eat a healthy (not by your standards) diet consisting of copious amounts of fresh vegetables and fruits, nuts, berries and whole grains. I do use added fat (mostly olive oil in salad dressing or used to cook and the occasional bit of butter) and I do eat animal protein including the occasional piece of red meat. I do eat cheese. I eat very few processed foods and not much sugar because I just don't care for sweet tastes (I'd be in trouble if hot and spicy were an issue).

I really am glad that your vegan diet has allowed you to commit to a lifestyle change which has set you on a healthier course - it works for you but not everyone needs to be vegan in order to be healthy.

My issues with you are due solely to the baiting nature of your OP and your pompous and preachy subsequent posts. 

I assume we'll just have to agree to disagree on what a healthy diet is.


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## LVbob (Mar 24, 2014)

fourdetrance said:


> So, you're suggesting calorie restriction to lose weight? Bob, I thought you had a slight amount of intelligence, but damn, calorie restiction while being a cyclist? That's just plain stupid.


It's relative as you well know. Weight loss/gain is a simple measure of calories in less calories out.


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## LVbob (Mar 24, 2014)

SauronHimself said:


> His diet wasn't very sustainable either and not just because of the cost of eating fast food all the time. Jared said his breakfast was just coffee. Lunch was usually just a 6" veggie sub, and dinner was typically a 6" chicken sub. Both lunch and dinner subs contained almost no condiments, and he drank either water or diet soda. Plus, of course, he did a lot of walking. The act of walking every day is an easily sustainable exercise, but his diet wasn't one that a person could feasibly live on and live with indefinitely. That last point is why fad diets don't work and why most people who go on diets to drop weight typically gain it all back when they return to their old ways. If you can't permanently change what you eat, then permanent weight loss and management are far less likely.


I agree that his diet was not sustainable or even what I would call healthy. But it allowed him to burn through the excess fat reserves on his body. According to the Wikipedia article, he has gained weight.


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## LVbob (Mar 24, 2014)

ruckus said:


> He shouldn't have done that in the first place. Instead of trying to cut down on calorie intake that was unhealthy for a man of his size, he should have made life changes that included healthy activities to burn those calories instead. Walking is not it. I know plenty of people who start their day with a 45 min walk every morning are still unhealthy. High cholesterol, high blood pressure and a physique that would throw me into depression. You actually have to do something that burns calories, a lot of it.
> 
> Even cycling isn't that intensive for calorie burning unless you're pumping hard for 2 hours. I don't think for average person, running twenty minutes hard with 30 minutes of weight training can be beat for weight loss. Not everyone would have time to ride 20-30 miles a day.
> 
> And I'll be first in line to admit committing to doing something every day is hard. But exercising every day has so many benefits. Starting or ending your day with physical activity puts me in a good mood. All the crap and hormones and chemicals your body releases due to stress usually will linger about and just get worse over time leading to depression, behavioral issues, sleep issues, and soon diet issues etc. Exercise every 24-48 hours flushes your body of all that crap. I don't know the science of how, but fairly sure proven the best way for your body to get rid of all that junk and renew itself is physical exercise and activities.


The problem with most people is that they overestimate the calorie burn for whatever exercise they perform and use exercise as a justification to eat more. That's why online trackers to keep tabs on the actual caloric intake v. caloric expenditure have proven popular and helped people to actually lose weight and maintain the loss,


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## tihsepa (Nov 27, 2008)

LVbob said:


> It's relative as you well know. Weight loss/gain is a simple measure of calories in less calories out.


Good point
I have said this for years.
As long as your mouthhole is smaller than your butthole you are good to go.


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## bvber (Apr 23, 2011)

LVbob said:


> Weight loss/gain is a simple measure of calories in less calories out.


We all wish the reality is that simple... :crazy:


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## ruckus (Apr 1, 2014)

bvber said:


> We all wish the reality is that simple... :crazy:


There is no wishing. It is that simple. I know plenty of fatties who claim it's genetic and thyroid issue. And then I ask what do you do to lose weight. Majority just join Weight Watchers, losers. The other half just walk on a treadmill for an hour, WALK with an assistance from a machine.

It's calories, you gotta burn it. Doesn't matter how much you consume, as long as you burn it. Have you not heard of Duranriders? That maniac consumes 6000-7000 calories of carbs and sugars. But he also rides more miles than anyone else on Strava in Australia, which is arguably one of the best places on the planet to be a cyclist. I doubt the pro teams are training in Australia because it sucks.

Bodybuilders are insane, the damage they do to their kidneys, liver and heart is astonishing. But they eat ALL DAY. 7-8 meals a day with a full serving of rice or potatoes and a more chicken or beef that I eat in a day. They do that 7-8 times. They eat from 6 AM to 11 PM. Yes I've read blogs that they will go to bed at 9 to rest and then wake up at 11 PM to go eat what I consider dinner. Point is, they have 30" waists. Their body fat is equivalent to an Olympic track athlete. 
- It's calories in and calories out.


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## SauronHimself (Nov 21, 2012)

ruckus said:


> There is no wishing. It is that simple. I know plenty of fatties who claim it's genetic and thyroid issue. And then I ask what do you do to lose weight. Majority just join Weight Watchers, losers. The other half just walk on a treadmill for an hour, WALK with an assistance from a machine.
> 
> It's calories, you gotta burn it. Doesn't matter how much you consume, as long as you burn it. Have you not heard of Duranriders? That maniac consumes 6000-7000 calories of carbs and sugars. But he also rides more miles than anyone else on Strava in Australia, which is arguably one of the best places on the planet to be a cyclist. I doubt the pro teams are training in Australia because it sucks.
> 
> ...


Not entirely. You can't assume two different substances will be burned at the same rate simply because they have the same energy content. If their chemistry is different, the rates at which they're used can easily be different. Case in point: table sugar vs HFCS.

https://www.princeton.edu/main/news/archive/S26/91/22K07/


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## Pirx (Aug 9, 2009)

SauronHimself said:


> Not entirely. You can't assume two different substances will be burned at the same rate simply because they have the same energy content. If their chemistry is different, the rates at which they're used can easily be different. Case in point: table sugar vs HFCS.
> 
> https://www.princeton.edu/main/news/archive/S26/91/22K07/


Well, it's not entirely clear from the report, but this looks like one of those less-than-useless studies that my poor colleagues in the quasi-sciences are prone to author. Specifically, I see no indication that calorie intake had been controlled for the two cases. Like I said, it is possible that I am wrong on this, but if I am not, then the study says exactly nothing to refute fundamental physics, which says calories in minus calories out is proportional to weight gain. I note that once we include all calories out in this equation (including post-products of potentially incomplete digestion), then this relationship is _exact_. Rates have nothing to do with this.


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## SauronHimself (Nov 21, 2012)

Pirx said:


> Well, it's not entirely clear from the report, but this looks like one of those less-than-useless studies that my poor colleagues in the quasi-sciences are prone to author. Specifically, I see no indication that calorie intake had been controlled for the two cases. Like I said, it is possible that I am wrong on this, but if I am not, then the study says exactly nothing to refute fundamental physics, which says calories in minus calories out is proportional to weight gain. I note that once we include all calories out in this equation (including post-products of potentially incomplete digestion), then this relationship is _exact_. Rates have nothing to do with this.


You're treating thermodynamics in a very simplistic way by assuming that the first law is what drives weight management. If the second law of thermodynamics didn't exist, you'd be right, but it's the second law that drives chemical reactions and, in turn, how fat is stored based upon what you're eating.


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## Pirx (Aug 9, 2009)

SauronHimself said:


> You're treating thermodynamics in a very simplistic way by assuming that the first law is what drives weight management. If the second law of thermodynamics didn't exist, you'd be right, but it's the second law that drives chemical reactions and, in turn, how fat is stored based upon what you're eating.


Please, at this point the best I can do is to _very strongly _advise you to not go an inch further down the path you have taken here. In simple terms, as far as we know, in all of currently accepted physics, the First Law of Thermodynamics is absolute, and the Second Law of Thermodynamics does not restrict the First Law in any way. Indeed, the Second Law has nothing whatsoever to do with this subject.

I will note as a minor aside that it is also not true that "the Second Law drives chemical reactions"; chemical reactions are driven by the Gibbs Energy, not by entropy alone, but that's far off-topic here.


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## LVbob (Mar 24, 2014)

tihsepa said:


> Good point
> I have said this for years.
> *As long as your mouthhole is smaller than your butthole you are good to go.*


:thumbsup:


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## bvber (Apr 23, 2011)

ruckus said:


> There is no wishing. It is that simple.





> It's calories, you gotta burn it.


What kind of calories? Simple, complex, fat, lean...etc. It matters because our body doesn't react identically to all.



> Doesn't matter how much you consume, as long as you burn it.


In layman's term, yes. That's the kind of line used as an opening sentence of weight loss lecture to beginners. 

Some type of calories require less effort to burn than others. Guess which is which? Not so simple anymore, is it?



> Bodybuilders are insane, the damage they do to their kidneys, liver and heart is astonishing. But they eat ALL DAY. 7-8 meals a day with a full serving of *rice* or *potatoes* and a more *chicken or beef* that I eat in a day. They do that 7-8 times. They eat from 6 AM to 11 PM. Yes I've read blogs that they will go to bed at 9 to rest and then wake up at 11 PM to go eat what I consider dinner. Point is, they have 30" waists. Their body fat is equivalent to an Olympic track athlete.


Do you see simple sugar in their diet? Not only have I read, I've done some of it in the past. Yes, the grocery bill gets to be very burdensome. Those guys (& girls) who do that are at pro level or trying to earn pro card. It's a full time commitment and the amount of time they spend in the gym reflects it.


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## Pirx (Aug 9, 2009)

bvber said:


> What kind of calories?


There aren't different "kinds" of calories. A calorie is a unit to measure energy content. There's as much different calories as there are different pounds, or ounces, or gallons.



bvber said:


> It matters because our body doesn't react identically to all.


That doesn't matter. A calorie burned is a calorie burned, end of story.



bvber said:


> Some type of calories require less effort to burn than others.


No, see above about what the word "calorie" means. Different forms of _storage_ of energy (carbohydrates, glycogen, fat) can be converted to energy at different rates, yes, but that only matters during transients. So, during hard exercise, you'll burn up your glycogen stores much faster than the fat. However, in the end your body will rebalance things in a statistically stationary way.



bvber said:


> Not so simple anymore, is it?


It _is_ fairly simple.


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## velodog (Sep 26, 2007)

cal·o·rie (kăl′ə-rē) n.

1. Abbr. cal Any of several approximately equal units of heat, each measured as the quantity of heat required to raise the temperature of 1 gram of water by 1°C from a standard initial temperature, especially from 3.98°C, 14.5°C, or 19.5°C, at 1 atmosphere pressure. Also called gram calorie, small calorie.

2. Abbr. cal The unit of heat equal to 1/100 the quantity of heat required to raise the temperature of 1 gram of water from 0 to 100°C at 1 atmosphere pressure. Also called mean calorie.


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## bvber (Apr 23, 2011)

Pirx said:


> There aren't different "kinds" of calories. A calorie is a unit to measure energy content. There's as much different calories as there are different pounds, or ounces, or gallons.


What I meant was in the context of good calories and bad calories in daily caloric intake. It meant the quality of calories from varying choices of foods available.



> That doesn't matter. A calorie burned is a calorie burned, end of story.


What I meant was the ease of reducing fat. Obviously if one relies on bad calories (foods that make it easier to gain fat), it will be harder to shed the body fat.


> It _is_ fairly simple.


Fairly simple once the person understands the pitfalls of different caloric sources. Until then, not so simple.


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## OldChipper (May 15, 2011)

bvber said:


> What I meant was in the context of good calories and bad calories in daily caloric intake. It meant the quality of calories from varying choices of foods available.
> 
> 
> What I meant was the ease of reducing fat. Obviously if one relies on bad calories (foods that make it easier to gain fat), it will be harder to shed the body fat.
> ...


Ummm... BS. As Prix says a calorie is a calorie. There is no "good" or "bad" calorie or or calories of differing "quality." Most recent, well-controlled studies are confirming this. 

And my contribution to this discussion: I like pie.


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## jbinbi (Jan 7, 2013)

Funny how different forums have different perspectives. 5.8 155 is in good shape here, on bodybuilding or or strength forums that would be a skinny ass wimp with no muscles.

Biking at a pretty good clip uses about 500 Cal's per hour for average guy.

The only real way to lose weight is wrist exercises, pushing away from the table before you are stuffed. As someone once said, unless you are not feeling a little bit hungry, you are probably not losing wt.

Above are generalities, people doing two a days to train for football, or swimming ten thousand yards can eat as much as they can stuff in and sill lose.


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## Winn (Feb 15, 2013)

I like pie too. Much better than cake.


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## Donn12 (Apr 10, 2012)

I can't decide who is worse...OP or Ruckus


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## Devastazione (Dec 8, 2011)

score said:


> Cycling doesn't do much for building muscle. The more muscular you are, the more calories you burn, even at rest.


Not true man. Been riding since 2009 and this winter has been a 4/5 days a week rides since september,my legs have turned just big and muscular to the point that they are getting aesthetically unpleasant to me.


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## SauronHimself (Nov 21, 2012)

Winn said:


> I like pie too. Much better than cake.


Funny story about that. Yesterday my friend Vi participated in her first 10k race (she ran 5k's exclusively until now) and took 2nd place in her age group. The prize was an apple pie. lol.


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## bvber (Apr 23, 2011)

OldChipper said:


> Ummm... BS. As Prix says a calorie is a calorie. There is no "good" or "bad" calorie or or calories of differing "quality." Most recent, well-controlled studies are confirming this.


Perhaps my sentences were too simple (in an attempt to bring it couple notches down after noticing a member having a hard time with what I thought was simple sentences). 

In the context of this thread, "Cyclists and big bellies...", what the person eats to meet the daily caloric intake requirement has good and bad. Lets say that dci (*d*aily *c*aloric *i*ntake) for someone is 3000 in an attempt to reduce the size of his gut (fat storage). That person can reach that number with various type of sources. If he picked sources that are high in simple sugar, that would be "bad" because of insulin level and its relation to fat gain. On the other hand, things like baked potato or pasta with fiber rich side dish and meat, that would be "good" source to reach that dci. It's no BS in this context.


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## Cinelli 82220 (Dec 2, 2010)

bvber said:


> If he picked sources that are high in simple sugar, that would be "bad" because of insulin level and its relation to fat gain. On the other hand, things like baked potato or pasta with fiber rich side dish and meat, that would be "good" source to reach that dci. It's no BS in this context.


Agreed. Calories in/out is over simplification. Glycemic index and insulin sensitivity are important.


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## Jay Strongbow (May 8, 2010)

bvber said:


> Perhaps my sentences were too simple (in an attempt to bring it couple notches down after noticing a member having a hard time with what I thought was simple sentences).
> 
> In the context of this thread, "Cyclists and big bellies...", what the person eats to meet the daily caloric intake requirement has good and bad. Lets say that dci (*d*aily *c*aloric *i*ntake) for someone is 3000 in an attempt to reduce the size of his gut (fat storage). That person can reach that number with various type of sources. If he picked sources that are high in simple sugar, that would be "bad" because of insulin level and its relation to fat gain. On the other hand, things like baked potato or pasta with fiber rich side dish and meat, that would be "good" source to reach that dci. It's no BS in this context.


For what it's worth I thought it was blatently obvious what your point was (and it's an accurate one) all along.


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## bvber (Apr 23, 2011)

Cinelli 82220 said:


> Agreed. Calories in/out is over simplification. Glycemic index and insulin sensitivity are important.





Jay Strongbow said:


> For what it's worth I thought it was blatently obvious what your point was (and it's an accurate one) all along.


Yesterday, I received a reputation notification from a member saying that I am hopelessly confused on this.


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## Cinelli 82220 (Dec 2, 2010)

Let's put someone on a diet of balanced protein/carb/fats and include all the necessary micronutrients.

And we'll put another person on a diet of nothing but Krispy Kreme donuts.

Same amount of calories for each of them.

If calories in/out are all that matter they should each be equally healthy...right?


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## OldChipper (May 15, 2011)

Cinelli 82220 said:


> Let's put someone on a diet of balanced protein/carb/fats and include all the necessary micronutrients.
> 
> And we'll put another person on a diet of nothing but Krispy Kreme donuts.
> 
> ...


We're not talking "healthy" - a poorly defined term at best. We're talking body weight (bellies). Assuming essential nutrients are included, if you hold calorie in-take and expenditure (exercise etc.) constant, over the long term the body-weight must be the same. Anything different is indeed a violation of the First Law. Body composition, energy level, blood values, etc. is an entirely different question.


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## bvber (Apr 23, 2011)

OldChipper said:


> We're not talking "healthy" - a poorly defined term at best. We're talking body weight (*bellies*). Assuming essential nutrients are included, if you hold calorie in-take and expenditure (exercise etc.) constant, over the *long term* the body-weight must be the same. Anything different is indeed a violation of the First Law.


If you think calories from Krispy Kreme donuts and beef steak are the same, you are seriously mistaken. You won't get protein from KKD. So when you say "essential nutrients are included", it's got to include foods other than KKD and therefore your concept of comparing those two falls apart. By the way, we can live on beef steak much longer than KKD.

Do you know what can happen when you eat a lots of sugary stuff like KKD for a long time? Hint, it starts with "d".



> *Body composition*, energy level, blood values, etc. is an entirely different question.


Body composition as in fat vs muscle? They weigh differently. Muscle is heavier than fat per cubic inch because it's denser. When you loose muscle due to lack of protein intake (if you eat KKD only instead of beef steak only), you would look chubbier (belly) from gained fat but may actually weigh less than you would if you took adequate protein.


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## Shegens (Sep 14, 2013)

One thing that was the most difficult for me when I first started riding was the extreme hunger 30 minutes or so after a hard ride. With the hills I have to climb, I can burn a lot of calories in a short period of time. When I first finish the ride I'm not hungry but in 30 minutes or so I could eat the south end out of a horse and I have to fight through that. I drink a glass of water to take the edge off and then eat a piece of string cheese or an apple with a tablespoon of peanut butter and I eat it slowly. I try to do my hard ride an hour or two before a meal and with the piece of cheese or the apple I can make it to the meal without pigging out and eating back on all of the calories I just worked off. The string cheese is about 70 calories and the apple with peanut butter just slightly more. If I can make it without eating anything I do, but one way to overeat at a meal is to be too hungry. I try to keep all of my meals at 400 calories or less with nutritional snacks between times to avoid overeating at meals. I stay away from alcohol completely unless it's an occasional glass of my homemade blueberry wine. A couple of snacks a day are around 150 calories each.


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## Winn (Feb 15, 2013)

SauronHimself said:


> Funny story about that. Yesterday my friend Vi participated in her first 10k race (she ran 5k's exclusively until now) and took 2nd place in her age group. The prize was an apple pie. lol.


I bet that was a tasty pie!


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## Camilo (Jun 23, 2007)

ruckus said:


> .....
> 
> Anyway, if you're serious about cycling and planning to spend a lot of time on your bike, there is no excuse. Stop being a fattie. 10k bike will still make you a ridiculous pathetic looking fattier. Who cares what you do to lose weight, change diet, aware of caloric intake, take cross fit classes. Who cares. Nothing will improve your cycling more than stop being a fattie. No excuses.
> 
> Don't be that person sitting on a 5k carbon with full SRAM Red and saying you can ride centuries and race or do triathlons or ride 30 mph. No one should take you seriously, they should laugh at you cause you're still a WHALE!


Why? Is going "fast" the only criterion for being a good cyclist and/or enjoying the sport?

Your comments make absolutely no sense to me.


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## Camilo (Jun 23, 2007)

fourdetrance said:


> ...
> This is why skinny, fit LOOKING people still die of blood clots, high cholesterol, heart disease, et al. They *look* fit on the outside, but oil, MFCAs, coconut oil, palm oil, ANIMAL fat or whatever the current industry-trend is telling you is "healthy," causes the vessels in the body to tighten up, vasoconstriction and also creates damage in the endothelial lining of the arteries thus causing narrowing arterial space as well as white blood cells to clot and wreak all kinds of havoc on the body. You're welcome.


Won't dispute your comment, except to say the main reason those folks die of heart disease is genetics, not diet. Diet is a very small factor in heart disease compared to genetics. You can mitigate risk factors through diet, but you can't overcome bad genes. Diet fanatics don't understand this because they have very limited understanding of human physiology and the varied and complex factors that impact disease.


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## bellzisu (May 1, 2013)

Damn.... I'm really starting to worry now... I might have to find a new website to post on.

So the criteria for posting on this site goes as follows (according to some here)

I have to ride over 10,000 miles on my bike each year (only 5000 off of that last year)
I have to have a carbon or steel or ti bike. (2.3 trek doesn't qualify, oh and it's a trek)
Now I have to be of a certain weight or size?? (damn... 230 lbs in winter and down to 210 by spring, but still gut) 

I guess maybe I should google and try to find a new forum. Maybe key words... fat biker, non carbon or steel, name brand bike, less then 10,000 mile forum.

The fact that people are out there doing something that makes them happy is great. Sure maybe they could lose some weight but who am I to judge or say something.


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## Camilo (Jun 23, 2007)

fourdetrance said:


> You tell me fellow cyclist: would you rather lose 10 pounds buying a carbon fiber bike that costs 10k or more OR lose 60 pounds by changing your diet and keeping the old trusty 18lb aluminum bike? No brainier, huh? I chose the latter and wow, and I now pass those fat-loving yogurt cyclists up on the hills because I'm 60lbs lighter. I don't like debt and I don't like obesity: seems like a win-win situation here. Thank you for your time!


Nah. I'd rather buy whatever nice bike I want and can afford and eat whatever I want to eat. Someday when you've a little more life experience, you might understand that what you're talking about are not facts or truths, but values and opinions, and yours aren't correct, except to you.


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## velodog (Sep 26, 2007)

bvber said:


> If you think calories from Krispy Kreme donuts and beef steak are the same, you are seriously mistaken. You won't get protein from KKD. So when you say "essential nutrients are included", it's got to include foods other than KKD and therefore your concept of comparing those two falls apart. By the way, we can live on beef steak much longer than KKD.
> 
> Do you know what can happen when you eat a lots of sugary stuff like KKD for a long time? Hint, it starts with "d".
> 
> ...


If by "it starts with d" you mean type 2 diabetes, sugary foods is just a part of the issue.

And as far as the rest of your post, a calorie is a calorie, don't matter if it comes from protein, fat or carbohydrate. It don't even matter that muscle is heavier than fat, when a calorie burns up it burns up at the same rate no matter where it comes from.


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## Shegens (Sep 14, 2013)

bellzisu said:


> Damn.... I'm really starting to worry now... I might have to find a new website to post on.
> 
> So the criteria for posting on this site goes as follows (according to some here)
> 
> ...


Here are the facts. There are no friendly bike forums. I have searched for them too and they don't exist. Most are like this one. They are full of snobs and not very friendly to people that like riding but don't buy into the myth that in order to enjoy riding you have to buy the most expensive bike you can find, wear all the fancy biking clothes, and be a pro racer, or whatever. 

I stay here because now and then I find some good information, not because it's a friendly place to be. In fact, most of the time it's downright hostile. I can count on one hand the truly nice people that have helped me and not harassed or made fun of me and I appreciate them.

I also ride a {gasp} Trek but mine is a hybrid. I ride alone and I wear whatever the heck I want to wear. I'm old enough that I've learned what makes me happy and those are the things I will do, no matter what other people try to tell me I have to do to be "cool". Cool doesn't matter to me because I'm having FUN riding my Trek.  I have learned the reason why so many people that don't ride hate most bicyclists though. I try my best not to act like one of those.

Hang around and hopefully you will meet the handful of really nice people that are in here, if the others don't find a reason to get you banned first.


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## velodog (Sep 26, 2007)

Shegens said:


> Here are the facts. There are no friendly bike forums.


I had a friend once.


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## bvber (Apr 23, 2011)

velodog said:


> And as far as the rest of your post, a calorie is a calorie, don't matter if it comes from protein, fat or carbohydrate. It don't even matter that muscle is heavier than fat, when a calorie burns up *it burns up* at the same rate no matter where it comes from.


But the issue is, burning it up to do what? Given that the title is "Cyclists and big bellies...", it does matter. 

A person who looses muscle mass due to lack of protein intake will have a harder time burning up ## of calories per given time and activities than he/she would with more muscle mass.


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## Oxtox (Aug 16, 2006)

sounds like a couple of y'all need to have a group hug and wipe each other's tears...


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## velodog (Sep 26, 2007)

Oxtox said:


> sounds like a couple of y'all need to have a group hug and wipe each other's tears...


No tears here.


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## SauronHimself (Nov 21, 2012)

Shegens said:


> Here are the facts. There are no friendly bike forums. I have searched for them too and they don't exist. Most are like this one. They are full of snobs and not very friendly to people that like riding but don't buy into the myth that in order to enjoy riding you have to buy the most expensive bike you can find, wear all the fancy biking clothes, and be a pro racer, or whatever.


Well, I'd say it comes down to your perception of bike forums. If you find them snobby, that's your prerogative, but personally I think this place is pretty tame. 



Shegens said:


> I stay here because now and then I find some good information, not because it's a friendly place to be. In fact, most of the time it's downright hostile. I can count on one hand the truly nice people that have helped me and not harassed or made fun of me and I appreciate them.


Let's recap what happened. You stormed out of Politics Only after participating in the thread pertaining to Phil Robertson's comments. You espoused your ideals, and some people attacked the content of what you said. Nobody attacked you personally, but you still said that this place was full of godless liberals and hate (http://forums.roadbikereview.com/politics-only/phil-robertson-who-gives-duck-315624-8.html#post4523694). It's still unclear why you wandered into a politics forum expecting to find information on bicycles, but we can hit the "I believe" button for a moment and say it made sense. In another thread on fast food employee strikes you talked about conservative ideals of working hard, picking one's self up by the boot straps, and toughing things out until they got better (http://forums.roadbikereview.com/politics-only/fast-food-strikes-short-sighted-counterproductive-315093-4.html#post4513508). You even said in your final paragraph that no liberal accusations would change your mind. I'm simply perplexed that an independent person such as yourself who worked her way up from age 17 until retirement several months ago and who has faced the world's obstacles is so easily put off and offended by a bicycle forum. It comes off as a very disingenuous approach to things. I, too, was raised from very meager beginnings and have never taken a dime of welfare to support myself. I graduated second in my high school class and earned an NROTC scholarship to RPI shortly after earning my Eagle Scout, and then I graduated college with a physics degree and an officer commission. Now I work as an engineer and will hopefully be a module shift manager within a couple months (just had the interview today). Do people on this forum have ideas with which I disagree? Sure. Do I easily get offended by them and say that those who go against my personal views are hate filled? Of course not. That's because I don't let trivial things like that get to me, and neither should you.


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## tlg (May 11, 2011)

SauronHimself said:


> Well, I'd say it comes down to your perception of bike forums. If you find them snobby, that's your prerogative, but personally I think this place is pretty tame.


I agree. For the most part the forum is friendly. Sure there are pr!cks, a'holes, & d'bags. Which is pretty much just a microcosm of society. 

If I go to the LBS and start spouting my thoughts on bike maintenance I'd imagine the conversation would get hostile quite quickly.
If I start talking politics and religion to fellow coworkers... well, there might be blood spilled.


But I have to say, as much as I vehemently disagree with a few people on here, I'd probably still ride a bike with them.


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## bvber (Apr 23, 2011)

tlg said:


> Sure there are pr!cks, a'holes, & d'bags. Which is pretty much just a *microcosm* of society.


It depends on where you live. Some places have a higher concentration of them. I won't name them because I could end up with lots of "complaint letters" but I've lived in those places.


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## BadHabit (Mar 7, 2005)

fourdetrance said:


> I recently started riding with local group rides and I noticed that about 95% of the riders have large guts.


Pros often show a potbelly in profile on the bike. Not that?


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## HyperCycle (Sep 5, 2012)

SauronHimself said:


> There is undoubtedly much subjectivity in what constitutes a big gut/belly. I think the closest approximation to an objective rule is this: If you look down and can't see your John Harrison, then your gut is too big.


Now I feel better. I can still see mine.


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## Favorit (Aug 13, 2012)

I'm just curious when you refer to a "big belly" is it really a big belly or the diaphragm at work? 

I probably should have weighed 5 kg less than I did back when I raced, but even so, I know my extended diaphragm is what any noticeable belly really was. Like this:https://vine.co/v/h1i05OV3Drw

I think BadHabit was alluding to my point.


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## HyperCycle (Sep 5, 2012)

Shegens said:


> Here are the facts. There are no friendly bike forums. I have searched for them too and they don't exist. Most are like this one. They are full of snobs and not very friendly to people that like riding but don't buy into the myth that in order to enjoy riding you have to buy the most expensive bike you can find, wear all the fancy biking clothes, and be a pro racer, or whatever.
> 
> I stay here because now and then I find some good information, not because it's a friendly place to be. In fact, most of the time it's downright hostile. I can count on one hand the truly nice people that have helped me and not harassed or made fun of me and I appreciate them.
> 
> ...


Great post! I'm the most "uncool" road cyclist on the planet. Because....

1. I ride a Trek 1.1
2. I ride with khaki-colored baggy mountain bike shorts with chamois
3. I wear loose fitting shirts
4. My trek still has reflectors on the wheels
5. My clipless pedals are designed for mountain bikes
6. The shoes that I use with my clipless pedals are designed for mountain bikes
7. My trek still has the dork disk on it
8. My helmet was designed for mountain bikes
9. I use a hydra-pak instead of bottles for long rides


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## Pirx (Aug 9, 2009)

HyperCycle said:


> Great post! I'm the most "uncool" road cyclist on the planet. Because....
> 
> 1. I ride a Trek 1.1
> 2. I ride with khaki-colored baggy mountain bike shorts with chamois
> ...


WHAT??? Now that does it! Since when do we allow this kind of riffraff in this august community? Where are the mods when you need them? Clearly, this guy needs to be banned!


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## dbdg (Apr 5, 2014)

Shegens said:


> Here are the facts. There are no friendly bike forums. I have searched for them too and they don't exist. Most are like this one.



Have you been to other forums besides the biking ones? I'm new here, but I moderate on a different site, and have been an active participant in others. Most are a bit like this. It's rather the way human nature works. Jump in assert yourself. Don't be a douche.


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## Favorit (Aug 13, 2012)

HyperCycle said:


> Great post! I'm the most "uncool" road cyclist on the planet. Because....
> 
> 1. I ride a Trek 1.1
> 2. I ride with khaki-colored baggy mountain bike shorts with chamois
> ...


Although I was part of the "shaven leg" crowd (a friend of mine had a drawing of a hairy leg with the red diagonal slash through it on her front door ), to me anyone on any kind of bicycle, or trike even, is cool to me, except those who completely ignore all the laws, which just gives motorists more evidence of how horrible cyclists are.


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## velodog (Sep 26, 2007)

HyperCycle said:


> Great post! I'm the most "uncool" road cyclist on the planet. Because....
> 
> 1. I ride a Trek 1.1
> 2. I ride with khaki-colored baggy mountain bike shorts with chamois
> ...


riff-raff


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