# Calling out Calfee Tetra & Santana IsoGrid owners!



## GeoCyclist

I am researching these two bikes for possible purchase in 2009. I was wondering if anyone knows the weight of a medium Calfee Tetra or Santana IsoGrid frame? I would like a comparison in frame weight between the Tetra and IsoGrid. Santa has a comparison weight of 29 lb 9 oz for a standard configured IsoGrid bike, but I haven’t been able to find just the frame weight. I haven’t found any published weight for the Tetra frame or bike. I would also be interested in any assessments of these bikes that rider / owners might have; e.g. quality of the bike, ride, and components, and tandem specific wheels (Shimano & Rolf).

I stopped looking at the Pateka frame, as I cannot get this bike fitted with S&S couplers. What shame, as the Pateka looked to be one light tandem!


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## MB1

Sooner or later I will get around to a review of our Beyond with the S&S couplers.....

For now I will just say that it is one fine riding and light feeling bike.

As far as durability of components (wheels, brakes etc.) I very carefully follow the manufacturers instructions and pay close attention to what other folks are saying on-line. I tightened the spokes on the Shimano wheels after 500 miles per instructions and changed the stock brake pads on the WinZip disc to downhill pads ( as lots of folks and dealers suggested) before we got any miles on the thing.

To date we have had no problems but there were folks on the Santana Danube trip that complained endlessly about their wheels and brakes. When I asked them if they knew how to work on bikes or made any of their own adjustments the answer was always no.......they seemed to expect the bikes to work perfectly right out of the box and never require any adjustment.


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## GeoCyclist

*Looking forward to your review*

Thanks MB1,

I am really looking forward to your review, as you bought the bike that is currently my first choice. Also you have the set-up (disc brakes) that I am interested to hear about. Have you gone down any steep long descents on your tandem yet? I was wondering how much brake modulation (possible overheat) you might get. I have a drum break on my Santana Rio, and it gets pretty hot during a long descent. As for the Shimano sweet 16 wheels, I’m a bit gun shy on low spoke count wheels. I had a set of Shimano 7701s (16 spoke) on my De Rosa. I had endless problems with keeping the back wheel true. I finally gave the wheels away when a broken spoke left me stranded in the desert 40 km from the house. Break one spoke on a 16 spoke wheel, and you’re done riding that wheel. I do have my own Park T2 Truing stand, and a tension gauge. I checked the tension on my Shimano 7701 wheels several times. Every time the rear wheel went out of true, I would hear a PING sound just before the wheel started rubbing the brake pads. This happened twice during out of the saddle climbs, and the broken spoke happened on a dead flat road while I was in the saddle spinning.


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## MB1

GeoCyclist said:


> .... Have you gone down any steep long descents on your tandem yet? I was wondering how much brake modulation (possible overheat) you might get.
> 
> As for the Shimano sweet 16 wheels, I’m a bit gun shy on low spoke count wheels. I had a set of Shimano 7701s (16 spoke) on my De Rosa. I had endless problems with keeping the back wheel true......


We did some really nasty descending in Europe with a small load but nothing super long. No problems at all-I attribute that to the downhill pads. No heat fade that I ever noticed.

Don't forget the Santana rear wheels are 160mm spacing so there is a pretty wide stance between the hub flanges. FWIW you could always get another wheel set for touring (I was thinking about it but decided since it was a Santana Tour we were on I'd just go with stock and if we had a problem let Santana deal with it). As far as I know no one on the trip had any problems with their Sweet 16 wheels although someone did manage to break their headtube off by running into a wall (their wheels were fine).

One concern that you might have with the Santana is the steering which for a single bike would be on the slow side (but it sure felt good at speed and on bad roads). But since you already own a Santana you know how they steer.....


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## DeLuz

Suggest you visit the tandem forum on www.bikeforums.net for opinions on Calfee.
I own a Santana Sovereign and like it a lot, but I would be more inclined to look into the Calfee because it is 100% carbon fiber compared to the Santana carbon / ti blend.
I also do not like some of the proprietary Santana features which greatly reduces your component choices. The pricing on the Calfee seems pretty reasonable. Ultimately a test ride would be the best decider.


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## GeoCyclist

*Thanks for the search suggestion!*



DeLuz said:


> Suggest you visit the tandem forum on www.bikeforums.net for opinions on Calfee.
> I own a Santana Sovereign and like it a lot, but I would be more inclined to look into the Calfee because it is 100% carbon fiber compared to the Santana carbon / ti blend.
> I also do not like some of the proprietary Santana features which greatly reduces your component choices. The pricing on the Calfee seems pretty reasonable. Ultimately a test ride would be the best decider.



Point noted about the proprietary equipment. My first concern about Calfee is the lack of diagonal tubing, as this seems prevalent in other manufacturer’s frames. I’ll post up on bikeforms, as you suggested.
Unfortunately, there is no place for me to test ride tandems in Bahrain. I am thinking about a test ride trip in Europe, but I need to locate a dealer who has a selection of bikes!


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## MB1

Re: Bikeforums Tandem Forum

I post there too. There is a lot of Santana hating going on there. I don't mind someone really liking their own stuff but why knock the other guy?

IMO It is all good, just in different ways.......


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## GeoCyclist

*Thanks for the input!*



MB1 said:


> Re: Bikeforums Tandem Forum
> 
> I post there too. There is a lot of Santana hating going on there. I don't mind someone really liking their own stuff but why knock the other guy?
> 
> IMO It is all good, just in different ways.......



MB1,
Thanks for the info regarding the “Santana Hating”; as I will word my inquiries to avoid trolling for negative comment. As mentioned, I want to hear what people like / dislike about the equipment they own / ride. Much more useful than dishing someone else’s ride.


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## DeLuz

Yes, I forgot to mention they dislike Santana and love CoMotion.
I would not worry about the lack of a diagonal on the Calfee.
There are a number of builders doing that and it could improve ride comfort.
The Sanata proprietary features can be thought of as + or -.
For example the 160mm rear spacing allows for zero dish wheel which is stronger and requires less maintenance which I have personally experienced. On the other hand it severly limits which hubs you can use and also requires a much wider bottom bracket again limiting choices and results in a wider pedaling stance. I have to question the 1-1/4 inch headset is it really needed or does it improve ride quality.
I would find it very difficult to purchase either of these bikes without a test ride. For the money you are going to spend a trip would make sense.


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## sine

Test, test and test some more. Consider a trip to the US, east coast, as well.

We went through all this (testing) long ago and it was very difficult finding something that was our size and handles the way we wanted. If it's not your size, the handling will be off. 

We were lucky in that we were able to test a CoMo in our size and fell in love. Earlier we tested one that was smaller and it was ok, not thrilling.

I would not focus on weight. Tandems are special. Concern yourself with the type of riding you will do and what your handling preference is. 

If I were looking for a travel tandem today (well, we are), I would look at CoMo and Seven. Steel because it's fairly durable (knockability) and ti because it's fairly durable, won't rust and no paint option.


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## WheresWaldo

When we speced our new tandem I looked at and spoke to Steve @ Calfee. Every review I have seen and in speaking to a few single bike Calfee riders around here lead me to the conclusion that Calfees tend to be on the flexible side. That may be a generalization, but we did need to consider our team weight and riding style. We did not consider Santana, because of too many proprietary parts. We also considered Co-Motion. I was particularly interested in the Macchiato, but had read other reviews that mentioned Co-Motion is reluctant to build one for a team with our weight (~350 pounds).

We do not ride loaded, nor do we travel with our tandem. So with very specific goals we were looking to find out what we could do in a light (don't let DeLuz fool you into thinking weight doesn't matter ), fast easy to maintain tandem. We ended up ordering a Ruegamer Ying & Yang. He estimates the weight between 2000 and 2500 grams for the frame depending on you requirements. When it arrives at the beginning of the year we will make a full report.


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## GeoCyclist

*Thanks all for your input!*

Thank you all for your constructive input to my tandem search. The following are a few points to better define what I am looking for in my next tandem.
I want a light tandem. I currently have a very heavy (40 lb) MTB tandem. I have ridden a lighter road touring tandem, and saw the weight savings advantage. My wife and I have no desire to do loaded touring, as we are hooked on the fully supported tours. We really enjoy exploring a new route on an unloaded (no extra baggage) bike. I did this recently through the Pyrenees on my racing bike, and enjoyed not having all the baggage / bottles and touring accessories on my bike. Nothing like doing an epic climb while being supported like a pro rider! You can now see what is driving my desire to obtain the lightest / fastest tandem I can find. Fortunately, the tandem team weight I’m working with is sub 300 lb (280 lb at present). The light team weight opens up a lot of equipment options that I would not consider for touring, or heavier team weight. Being able to travel with the bike (S&S coupling) is the only limiting factor in my bike frame search.
The biggest issue to overcome in my tandem search is the limited access to test ride / inspect different tandems. My wife and I are located in Bahrain. Due to our work schedules, we will not have time to travel to the USA or Europe to test ride different bikes. I would like to have my new bike by the end of June 2009 for a month of cycling in the Western USA. The obvious solution would be wait until June to start test riding bikes; however, I want to be cycling on a nice tandem everyday during my five week vacation.

Thanks again for your current, and future, input to my tandem questions!


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## WheresWaldo

MB1 said:


> Re: Bikeforums Tandem Forum
> 
> I post there too. There is a lot of Santana hating going on there. I don't mind someone really liking their own stuff but why knock the other guy?
> 
> IMO It is all good, just in different ways.......


MB1, you know that I post there also, there is a general retro grouch type of mentality on that particular forum. Not necessarily overt, much more passive aggressive, that doesn't want to think outside the box when it comes to tandems. In particular (not naming names) if the idea doesn't come a particular poster(s), then it is generally dismissed. In most cases the dismissal is along the lines of questioning why anyone would want to do this or that, or talk about durability, etc, generally just dismissing with no suggestions of viable alternatives or rationale.

I am hoping that this forum, as it grows, does not become like that. If we here are open to new ideas then I will most likely post my thoughts here rather than there, as I don't fare rejection well, and that what it seems like I get there most of the time .


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## Guest

I haven't posted here, or at that other forum in quite some time, but I will share my thoughts with you. I wouldn't be overly concerned about the frame weight on a tandem. Careful component selection will play a bigger role in overall weight. For a coupled bike I would stick with steel, or if the budget allows titanium. An S&S equipped bike packed well can take a lot of abuse but watch how baggage handlers throw your luggage on your next flight. A carbon tube has many advantages for a bicycle, but one of their disadvantages is impact resistance. Opening a case to find a cracked tube would ruin a vacation. I would consider riding a frame with a dented steel or Ti tube but not a cracked carbon fiber tube. We currently have a Co-motion S&S equipped steel tandem and two S&S single bikes made from plain old steel. If your heart is set on carbon fiber I would contact Calfee about your options. A few years ago they were offering S&S tandems with a lateral tube. I would imagine they would make you one in that configuration if you are willing to pay the cost for the extra set of couplers it would require. As far as wheels go a nice set of low spoke count wheels for local riding is nice but for touring a handbuilt, slightly heavier, repairable wheel is our preference.


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## GeoCyclist

*Thanks for the input*



PaMTBRider said:


> I haven't posted here, or at that other forum in quite some time, but I will share my thoughts with you. I wouldn't be overly concerned about the frame weight on a tandem. Careful component selection will play a bigger role in overall weight. For a coupled bike I would stick with steel, or if the budget allows titanium. An S&S equipped bike packed well can take a lot of abuse but watch how baggage handlers throw your luggage on your next flight. A carbon tube has many advantages for a bicycle, but one of their disadvantages is impact resistance. Opening a case to find a cracked tube would ruin a vacation. I would consider riding a frame with a dented steel or Ti tube but not a cracked carbon fiber tube. We currently have a Co-motion S&S equipped steel tandem and two S&S single bikes made from plain old steel. If your heart is set on carbon fiber I would contact Calfee about your options. A few years ago they were offering S&S tandems with a lateral tube. I would imagine they would make you one in that configuration if you are willing to pay the cost for the extra set of couplers it would require. As far as wheels go a nice set of low spoke count wheels for local riding is nice but for touring a handbuilt, slightly heavier, repairable wheel is our preference.


I agree with your assessment of CF shipping vulnerability; however, I intend to get a good hard case for shipping my bike. I’m also planning on using high spoke count wheels for the very reason you have suggested. After reading bike reviews on various tandem forms, I am not as concerned with the lack of diagonal tubes on the Calfee frame.


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## WheresWaldo

When you speak to Calfee, make sure that you are very clear on how you intend to use your tandem. They will be able to make suggestions that will benefit you in the long run, listen to them, even if you have ideas that you think are must haves. Make sure they listen to your desires/concerns and you will end up with a tandem that will give you a lifetime of enjoyment no matter what material it is made out of.


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