# cartridge bearing hubs vs loose ball longevity?



## samh (May 5, 2004)

Do they last the same amount of time? Do cartridges give warning or fail suddenly?


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## tihsepa (Nov 27, 2008)

Both are fine. 
You will get arguments for and against each. The base of those arguments is preference so that doesn't really count for much when it comes down to which is better. 
If taken care of, they both work just fine. And, no of you check your bike every once in a while there are no "sudden failures" of a wheel bearing.


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## Peter P. (Dec 30, 2006)

Loose bearings will technically last longer because you can extend their life by adjusting the cones for any wear, which is rare.

In the real world, I've run both and can't tell the difference. I've never had a bearing of either type fail catastrophically.


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## cxwrench (Nov 9, 2004)

Peter P. said:


> Loose bearings will technically last longer because you can extend their life by adjusting the cones for any wear, which is rare.
> 
> In the real world, I've run both and can't tell the difference. I've never had a bearing of either type fail catastrophically.


Agreed, I've always thought that loose ball hubs will survive longer and feel better longer. Unless you've got Campy OS or Shimano D/A hubs the parts you'd need to replace are generally less than a full set of cartridge bearings.


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## Mike T. (Feb 3, 2004)

I've had, and/or serviced, many types and makes, both cartridge bearing and loose ball. The only hubs I've ever junked from bearing failure are two sets of Shimanos whose non-replaceable cups became pitted.

I have no preference between either bearing type and I currently own a few sets of each. The last ones I bought for myself were loose ball Ultegra and Dura-Ace.

Do cartridges give warning or fail suddenly? No different than loose ball.


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## Mr645 (Jun 14, 2013)

I don;t have a lot of experience with either, except that after a year and 4000 miles, the front hub on my Oval wheel was shot. I had a rattle and it turned out that the front hub was making the noise. My LBS replaced the balls in the bearings and lubed it up but said the race was damaged and rusted from riding in the rain so much and that 1 year and 4000 miles is not unreasonable considering the conditions. 
I bought a set of Shimano wheels and they have sealed bearings but in the meantime the LBS said that the front wheel is useable, won't fail on me, just may make noise and probably won't roll as well as when new.


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## tihsepa (Nov 27, 2008)

Mr645 said:


> I bought a set of Shimano wheels and they have sealed bearings but in the meantime the LBS said that the front wheel is useable, won't fail on me, just may make noise and probably won't roll as well as when new.


Thats one of the things I really like about Shimano wheels. Loose ball bearings.


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## cxwrench (Nov 9, 2004)

Mr645 said:


> I don;t have a lot of experience with either, except that after a year and 4000 miles, the front hub on my Oval wheel was shot. I had a rattle and it turned out that the front hub was making the noise. My LBS replaced the balls in the bearings and lubed it up but said the race was damaged and rusted from riding in the rain so much and that 1 year and 4000 miles is not unreasonable considering the conditions.
> I bought a set of Shimano wheels and they have sealed bearings but in the meantime the LBS said that the front wheel is useable, won't fail on me, just may make noise and probably won't roll as well as when new.


I have never seen in my 20 years as a mechanic or 40 years of messing around w/ bicycles, a loose ball hub that had a damaged bearing cup. Every hub I've ever seen that was worn ONLY had worn cones and worn balls. I've seen cones get completely trashed and the cups were still smooth. I can't imagine what it would take to ruin a cup in a decent quality hub. 
Shimano hubs don't have "sealed" (you probably mean cartridge) bearings, they're loose ball.


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## Mike T. (Feb 3, 2004)

cxwrench said:


> I have never seen in my 20 years as a mechanic or 40 years of messing around w/ bicycles, a loose ball hub that had a damaged bearing cup. Every hub I've ever seen that was worn ONLY had worn cones and worn balls. I've seen cones get completely trashed and the cups were still smooth. I can't imagine what it would take to ruin a cup in a decent quality hub.


I replaced three hubs around the early to mid 1990's that had badly pitted cups - two were Deore XT MTB hubs and (if I remember correctly) just the cups and balls were pitted. I think they were just the rear hubs. I wondered if they were from a bad batch of hubs with faulty cup hardening.

The other pair of f&r Shimano Deore (not XT) hubs were no surprise - all the bearings and bearing surfaces on the whole bike (yeah headset, BB, hubs, pedals etc) were red rusty and pitted. A guy I worked with was a well-known mega clean-freak and he power-washed the grease out of every bearing on the bike over many months and had no idea that he was doing a bad thing! I had the fun of rubbing it in and re-building the whole bike for him.


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## BikeLayne (Apr 4, 2014)

I have always used loose bearing hubs myself. First Campy and now Shimano. No problems in 45years. I cannot say much about the sealed bearing type but my son-in-law bought a cheap set of wheels with a sealed bearing in it and it was not adjustable at all. It started clunking and I had an extra set of wheels and he was happy to take those (loose bearing). Also my son just bought a new set of wheels with pressed bearing hubs and he is having problems with the rear wheel. The freehub bearing has gone out twice already and he has been talking with the place he bought it from but currently he is back on his old wheels with loose bearing hubs (105). Not sure how that will work out. I looked at his hub taken apart and for the life of me I cannot see what would be the problem. I am just glad to have seen it so I can make sure to never visit that realm of frustration. I am sticking with loose ball myself. Maybe if I could afford Chris King I would go that way but it's out of my budget.


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## Mr645 (Jun 14, 2013)

I may be mistaken about what was worn out, rusted. The mechanic replaced the balls and greased the bearing and said it's ok for now but the bearings need to be replaced. The bearings were $19 each, 2 needed and with labor said it would be $55 + tax. The wheel set is $189 (Oval 330), so guessing that the front wheel at about $85 I decided the wheel was not worth fixing. 
When I questioned about a possible warranty on the just under a yr old wheels, he did not think that would fly since it's obvious that I have ridden in lots of rain and dirty conditions. I had a similar problem with the bottom bracket. With the wheel hubs, the balls were rusted to the bearing and some rusted together.
I have ridden in plenty of rain and muddy conditions. If I plan a 12 hr ride, and it starts to rain, I will put on a rain suit and finish. I was told by the tech that considering how I ride, a yr is not unreasonable for a bottom bracket


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## cxwrench (Nov 9, 2004)

No, if you ignore it for a year and ride like a year is totally acceptable. If you did some maintenance during the that time you could stretch the life space out somewhat longer. What you've done would be like not changing to the oil in your motor til it blows up...it's too late.


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## Mr645 (Jun 14, 2013)

I was not aware that hub and bottom brackets really needed any maintenance. How often should I remove the crank and clean, regrease the bearings and same for the wheel hubs?


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## Mike T. (Feb 3, 2004)

Mr645 said:


> I was not aware that hub and bottom brackets really needed any maintenance. How often should I remove the crank and clean, regrease the bearings and same for the wheel hubs?


This depends on a couple of things -

1. If you have a serviceable BB unit. Most (all?) recent Shimano units can't be serviced.
2. The conditions you ride in. Riding in wet weather and dirty conditions means servicing needs to be done more often.


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## Jay Strongbow (May 8, 2010)

I think hub design/adjustment is a much bigger factor than type of bearings. I blew bearings left and right with an Alchemy hub (cartridge) but haven't had to replace bearings on another cartridge bearing rear hub with twice the miles on it. Same goes for my Dura Ace rear (loose).

So I wouldn't hub shop based on type of bearings. A good hub is going to be a good hub with either as will a bad hub be a bad hub with either.


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