# Dura Ace 9000 fine tuning



## Jasra (Apr 30, 2013)

Recently took delivery of a new P1 Domane with DA 9000. Whilst the new group set is very slick, I can not fine tune the front derailleur to remove all chain clatter. Inner chain ring is fine, on any rear cog but the large chain ring clatters on the front derailleur when on the smallest rear cog. 

I have tried the various cable routing options and released the high screw as far as it will go but but cant seem to get the derailleur far enough away from the chain rings. 

Just wondered if anyone has any tips for fine tuning and setting up the front derailleur.

Thanks

N


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## Rickard Laufer (Jan 1, 2013)

Jasra said:


> Recently took delivery of a new P1 Domane with DA 9000. Whilst the new group set is very slick, I can not fine tune the front derailleur to remove all chain clatter. Inner chain ring is fine, on any rear cog but the large chain ring clatters on the front derailleur when on the smallest rear cog.
> 
> I have tried the various cable routing options and released the high screw as far as it will go but but cant seem to get the derailleur far enough away from the chain rings.
> 
> ...


Can you put the FD in two positions, both on the small cog and on the large (4 position all in all)?
I only use the inner position (on the FD) on the 3 largest cassette cogs and the other 8 for the outer position. If i adjust the FD barrel adjuster too hard, i can't either get the FD to move as intended (free from catching the cage).


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## mann2 (Oct 16, 2012)

My mechanic just put more tension in the FD cable. Unfortunately, no barrel adjusters installed on my bike.


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## Rickard Laufer (Jan 1, 2013)

mann2 said:


> My mechanic just put more tension in the FD cable. Unfortunately, no barrel adjusters installed on my bike.


No, i know Foil doesn't come with these, but i ordered one for my DA-9000 kit. There is just no possibility to tune a FD (IMO) without. This is were all fine tune is done. Just doing so with some tension at the FD wire, is not as fine as what a barrel adjuster does. I can adjust mine while riding and it is super easy to get the gearing precise. Have one installed, you will not regret it!


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## mann2 (Oct 16, 2012)

^ agree Rickard. I'll definitely consider having adjusters installed when i change cables. Too lazy to have them installed for their own sake right now


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## Jasra (Apr 30, 2013)

Thanks guys. I ended up trying another cable routing position as the one done by Trek didn't look right and putting quite a bit of pre-tension on the cable before clamping. Fine tuned with the barrel adjuster and success.

Theres a quite a good installation article here if anyone is interested.

Dura-Ace 9000 Front Derailleur Setup | secondnaturecycling


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## Rickard Laufer (Jan 1, 2013)

Jasra said:


> Thanks guys. I ended up trying another cable routing position as the one done by Trek didn't look right and putting quite a bit of pre-tension on the cable before clamping. Fine tuned with the barrel adjuster and success.
> 
> Theres a quite a good installation article here if anyone is interested.
> 
> Dura-Ace 9000 Front Derailleur Setup | secondnaturecycling


:thumbsup: Great!!!


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## Cinelli 82220 (Dec 2, 2010)

mann2 said:


> Unfortunately, no barrel adjusters installed on my bike.


Get inline cable adjusters. The 9000 front derailleur needs a lot of tension to work properly.
You can use the high/low adjuster screws on the derailleur to add tension. Tighten the lower screw so the cage is pushed outward, tighten your cable, then back out the adjusting screw. The cable will tighten up a bit.


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## MerlinAma (Oct 11, 2005)

Thanks for the link. I just put 9000 on this week and will take my first ride on it Sunday.
There is a good chance I will need to tweak the FD and this will help.
Based on my 0.4 mile ride this afternoon, I can say the shifting is very easy.


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## goodboyr (Apr 19, 2006)

You would think that manufacturers would just publish what the recommended converter position is for their frames. It would take a bit of the guesswork out of this. In particular when the cable is "borderline" as measured by the tool.


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## ultimobici (Jul 16, 2005)

They assume that it will be assembled by a competent mechanic.


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## goodboyr (Apr 19, 2006)

ultimobici said:


> They assume that it will be assembled by a competent mechanic.


Like you, I suppose. How many have you installed?


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## ultimobici (Jul 16, 2005)

Personally, none, as I no longer spin spanners for a living.

That said, the workshop where I work has had perhaps 8-10 9000 builds so far this year, none of which have presented any issues. 

What exactly do you mean by a "converter" and what kind of tool are you referring to to measure these "borderline" cables??


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## goodboyr (Apr 19, 2006)

The new 9000 Fd has a choice of two cable attachments depending on the angle of attack of the cable as it comes out of the frame. They give you a little plastic jig to determine which setting of the cable attachment converter you use. Some cables show as "borderline" between the two choices. Since its totally dependent on the frame, it would be easier for the mfr to just measure it and then state it. But the primary reason for my response was what I interpretted as a snide remark by you clearly based on the assumption that all you need is standard mechanic skills to install the 9000fd. Its definitely a different beast than a normal Fd and unless you do it right, it doesn't work as advertised.


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## ultimobici (Jul 16, 2005)

What you're expecting from frame manufacturers is a little impractical. So often there is the assumption that "it's just a bike, how hard can it be?". As you have stated, this is not the case. Shimano haven't exactly been that forthcoming with information either, and I'd suggest that the onus to provide direction on this should be on them as they have deviated from the established norm.

As for the snide remark point, you're not wrong. I have seen countless issues blamed on manufacturers actually being down to DIY mechanics not adhering to the RTFM* mantra and assuming that wrenching is something any schmuck can do. Rest assured I'll be opening up a FD9000 tomorrow to check it out. 

* Read The Flaming Manual


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## goodboyr (Apr 19, 2006)

Make sure you review the Shimano dealers manual for the 9000fd. Its where all this info is.


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## ultimobici (Jul 16, 2005)

Thanks. Done.


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## TmB123 (Feb 8, 2013)

It's possible that the size of the chain rings that you are using would change the angle that the cable arrives at the fixing point of the FD. For example the FD would sit much higher for a 55T ring than it would for a 50T which may change the angle sufficiently to alter the mounting position used. A frame manufacturer would struggle to be able to cover all the scenarios so dont think it really possible.

I agree, barrel adjusters are necessary as the FD cable needs a LOT of tension on it. When I first got my bike I wasnt completely happy with the shifting so of course the night before a 6am ride thought I'd have a go at fiddling with it. Found it quite complicated to get it setup compared to all the previous Ultegra and DA FD's that I've had. The little shim that you need to attach to the frame to tension the FD was new to me, as was the two seperate high and low trim positions and yeah, the high/low adjustment screws dont seem to do as much as older versions. Finally found the tech docs and got it all going but not quite what I was expecting late at night!
Once it's setup though, wow, so nice, smooth and light, works brilliantly. (Love the brakes too!)


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## goodboyr (Apr 19, 2006)

You've picked a pretty extreme case. Bikes usually come with either 53 or 50 big rings. If the position changes based on these two, then it was marginal to begin with. I still think the mfr could just state which way it should go and that would be it. But it's no big deal. Just a suggestion.


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## oakland (Aug 5, 2013)

Frame damage question: I am building up a new Specialized Sworks sl4 tarmac frame with dura ace 9000. I was having troubles getting the front deraileur to move the chain into the big ring (as folks have posted above), and I did a terrible thing !! I tightened the support bolt too far, like a fool, and put a dimple in the frame seat tube. It's about 1/2 by 3/4 inch rectangle, maybe 1/16 to 1/24 inch deep. 

Has anyone had such a horrible  thing happen? Am I sunk? Have I ruined the frame? Will the bike handle differently now? 

Nothing else happened to the frame -the braze on derailuer post is not affected at all, not major enough to affect the clear coat etc.

Any thoughts welcome. Thanks


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## Jasra (Apr 30, 2013)

*Ouch*

I think I can visualise what you did and share your pain ! 

Difficult to say whether there is any structural damage based on your decription, although if its not penetrated the frame my optomistic best guess is that its ok. Check to see if there is any flexing under load or creaking ? 

Any doubts though and you should get it checked.


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## Rick Draper (Jan 17, 2012)

Did you not have the metal tab stuck on the seat tube?


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## oakland (Aug 5, 2013)

Thanks. As for damage/strength etc, I don't think there is any. In fact, the rectangular dimple I made looks so perfect, I would have thought the seat tube was designed this way. My real concern is that the bike will handle less than perfectly or the way it was designed/supposed to handle. I really doubt this, even if I were a cat A and pushed the bike much harder.


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## oakland (Aug 5, 2013)

*Thanks*

No, I did. I was just getting frustrated by the difficulty I was having in getting the FDerail adjusted, and I guess I turned the support bolt too far. Ugh!! I still can't believe my stupidity. If I had just found this forum before and learned from the posted suggested others had tried....


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## ph0enix (Aug 12, 2009)

You wouldn't catch me riding that frame the way it is. See if it can be repaired:
http://calfeedesign.com/repair/sending-your-frame-for-repair/
With that said, can you post a pic of the dimple? Maybe it's not as bad as it sounds.


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## gizzard (Oct 5, 2005)

Sorry to hijack this thread guys, but I'm fed up with the 9000 front derailleur. I can't understand why Shimano decided to add trim to the 9000 left-hand lever when the 7900 lever and front derailleur seemed perfectly adequate. So I've resolved to look for alternatives. Would another Dura Ace front mech – say a 7800 (which I conveniently have in the garage) – work with the 9000 levers, given that it was designed to be used in conjunction with a 'trim' lever? Do any of you know the definitive answer to this question without speculating or going on what the Shimano reps recommend? The only issue I anticipate is there being insufficient 'throw' to move the chain onto the outside ring, due to reduced cable pull with the new lever. Answers/advice greatly appreciated.


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## ultimobici (Jul 16, 2005)

Firstly it won't work as there is far less cable pulled. Secondly have you set the mech up correctly? It is no longer as simple as hooking up the cable and you're done.


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## gizzard (Oct 5, 2005)

Yeah Ultimo, installed by the book. It works, but there's always some chain rub when in the big ring. I know that there is far less cable pull with the 9000 levers, but wouldn't that be negated to some degree by the extra trim built into the (9000) levers? Do you know for sure whether other Dura Ace front mechs are incompatible in practice, or is your advice/argument theoretical?


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## tvad (Aug 31, 2003)

gizzard said:


> It works, but there's always some chain rub when in the big ring.


No chain rub on my Dura Ace 9000 front derailleur running a 11-28 cassette, whether in 56/11 or crossed chained in 56/28.


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## Tom Kunich (Oct 16, 2002)

Jasra said:


> Recently took delivery of a new P1 Domane with DA 9000. Whilst the new group set is very slick, I can not fine tune the front derailleur to remove all chain clatter. Inner chain ring is fine, on any rear cog but the large chain ring clatters on the front derailleur when on the smallest rear cog.
> 
> I have tried the various cable routing options and released the high screw as far as it will go but but cant seem to get the derailleur far enough away from the chain rings.
> 
> ...


There is a problem with the Trek/Shimano spacing and MOST braze-on fittings. They are not far enough out away from the seat tube. I was having exactly this same problem with a Madone that didn't have a braze-on. I tried very many braze-on adapters and every one of them rattled here or there. Finally I got a Shimano braze-on adapter and you could see it mounted the front derailleur a little further away from the seat tube and ALL of the rattling stopped. Even though the new T47 bottom bracket replaces the BB90, the spacing of the crankset is still the same and is wrong. I would think that there would be a way of moving the crankset a little further inboard but this is Trek's problem.


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## cxwrench (Nov 9, 2004)

Jesus Tom, why do you insist on doing this? Are you that attention starved?


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## No Time Toulouse (Sep 7, 2016)

Hey, there were questions from 7 years ago that STILL need answers!

Don't worry, though. Soon the warden will revoke his computer privileges again...


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