# Tubeless Gravel tire 38mm



## thalo

I am looking for a tubeless tire for some gravel races, max width 38mm. I like the look of the Challenge Gravel Grinder (it is a recommended tire from a colleague) but it is not tubeless. I would like smaller nobs/file tread in the center but with aggressive nobs on the sides.

Any suggestions that will check my boxes?


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## bikerector

Schwalbe g-one for hardpack. Maxxis rambler for more aggressive stuff. Panaracer gravel king for stuff in between (newer ones are supposed to be tubeless, not sure on older ones).

I know there are other options but those are the top 3 I've had in mind to try next. Specialized roubaix vs g-one was a consideration but it seems like there's some mixed reviews on their flat resistance.


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## thalo

Thanks for the options. I was looking at the Rambler the other day. Specialized BLACK Trigger Pro 2Bliss Ready looks interesting. Wish they both had a little bit more on the sides.


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## Migen21

Check out Clement X'Plor MSO 700x36

Clement Adds Tubeless MSO, MXP and PDX Tires, New BOS Mud Tread, Gravel Options - Cyclocross Magazine - Cyclocross News, Races, Bikes, Photos, Videos

I rode these on my gravel bike most of last season (I switched from the tubed X'Plor MSO USH). 

It's not ideal for pavement, mainly just because it's not going to be long wearing, but it really is an ideal all around gravel tire. You can run them firm for harder, faster surfaces, or lower pressure for softer stuff.

This was my first tubeless tire of any kind, and it was super easy to install, seat and inflate. I pretty much installed these and forgot about them, other than the occasional pressure adjustment.


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## zephxiii

I'm going to give the Kenda Happy Medium a go (tubeless version) as my first gravel tire. Really good price on them right now on Jenson. 

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## Srode

The Clement MSO is a good choice tubeless - I've used the 40mm tube version and it's a very nice tire. The Challenge is pretty popular in the gravel world and fits the bill. I use WTB Nano tubeless now, spec'd at 40mm but measures 39 and the center tread while not a file pattern is pavement / hardpack friendly.


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## November Dave

I'm excited to try the Challenge Gravel Grinder, as I've got some rides and events on the calendar for which that should be perfect. Will be setting it up tubeless. There's also a Continental Tire called the Cyclocross Speed (comes in 35c size) which has the tread character you're after, but is not a proper tubeless tire. 

In my experience, for road tubeless you need the tubeless specific tire to keep the tire on the rim (that's been established elsewhere, please don't try to do road tubeless with non-tubeless-specific tires), while in cross, the tight, non-stretch beads of the tubeless specific tires help to prevent burps (which are sort of the opposite of blow-offs). With a higher volume tire (more tire volume means fewer burps at a given pressure) at slightly higher pressure than you use for cross racing (more pressure means fewer burps at a given tire volume), without so many of the weird uses of cross which cause most burps (remounts, extreme sidehills/off cambers), my theory is that most of these tires won't burp. And since inflation pressures used are so relatively low (we're talking in the sort of 33 to 45 range on most of these), risk of blowoff is much less than in road tubeless use. 

This isn't a stone cold endorsement of using non-tubeless tires in general or any one of them in specific for this purpose, but a WHOLE LOT of people used MSOs tubeless very successfully before Clement introduced the tubeless version, for example.


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## thalo

Dave

Challenge, from what I understand, do not recommend running tubeless. Do they have a tubeless version now? Have you already set them up tubeless or know if someone has successfully?

Thanks for all the recommendations, good info and choices.


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## single1x1

I've liked the Continental cyclocross speed when I had a set, never tried to set them up tubeless though, got some good life out of them, both on the road and on gravel roads and some trails, couple early season cross races.
I've really liked the Clement MSO 36 tubeless, used them so far for a couple good gravel rides and events, not a lot of use yet. They roll pretty well on regular pavement, but they seem to wear faster with pavement use. The Trigger 2bliss 38 is also good, a little heavier than the Clement, but about the same size, both measured about 36 with calipers on a Belguim + rim. The Trigger would be a better choice if you will ride more pavement on your gravel rides. They also make a smaller 33mm trigger, but it does not have the puncture protection of the larger model, but it is a bunch lighter, good for smoother gravel cross racing, or even pavement ridding.
Adam


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## November Dave

Was down in the bike cave yesterday and saw that I currently have a WTB Cross Boss and Schwalbe X-One on that bike. Both would be good candidates. The Cross Boss does really really well in gravelly turns. There's one little piece I ride where you make a turn at speed across a golf cart path that's paved with oyster shells, and it's pretty terrifying. Cross Boss is the one tire that's ever made me feel I could press it on that turn. 

Challenge doesn't have a tubeless version. This is definitely an off the reservation thing for me, but I'm going to try it. There's a method to my madness on all of this, and bear in mind that NONE of this constitutes an official recommendation.

First off, in cross tubeless, the game is to keep the tire from kicking IN off the bead shelf and burping due to a lack of outward-pressing air pressure. In road tubeless, the game is keeping the bead from blowing OUT off the rim due to too much outward pressing air pressure. In both cases, a proper no-stretch tubeless bead is a boon (in road it's a necessity, full stop), but in each case it's performing a different function. 

Gravel tires are sort of a hybrid of that situation - they are often used with enough pressure to keep them from burping in, and yet not enough pressure to cause them to blow off. There is plenty of history of people successfully using non-tubeless tires in gravel races. 

I have a bit of history in using non-tubeless Challenge Grifo for cyclocross. Not a ton, and we wound up placing it squarely in the "not recommended" category because it could be reliably made to burp in certain frequently encountered situations (off camber remounts were a dead lock for a burp). But that's a lower volume tire than the Gravel Grinder, used at lower pressure than I'd use a Gravel Grinder. Based on having taken the Grifo up to 40psi and having it hold that pressure easily, I'm confident enough to try the Gravel Grinder.

Again, not a recommendation for anyone else to try it. I've spent way too much time screwing around with tubeless and have developed sort of a sixth sense for when things aren't right, plus it's only my neck (teeth, nose?) in the line here.


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## single1x1

I would be interested in hearing about how your experimentation with the Challenge gravel grinder tire goes, I think you will probably be able to do it. I was able to set up a pair of Specialized Trigger 2bliss 33C tires on a HED Belgium rim, so I tubeless ready tire on a non-tubeless ready rim. I did a long gravel event on them without any problems, think I ran about 45 PSI.
Adam


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## Hiro11

I currently have 36mm Clement MSOs set up tubeless on my bike. I have WTB tubeless-specific rims (Frequency i19s) and I used OEM WTB tape. This setup has been foolproof and burp-free even at pressures as low as ~25psi. I'm a huge fan of these tires. The tires have such a great ride, the tread offers plenty of grip on lots of different surfaces and the tires are very durable. They also roll surprisingly well on pavement, I've even done group rides on them without issue. I have ~1.5k mostly gravel miles on a set and they still look brand new. 

One caveat: both of my MSOs have a lateral wobble in the tread. The wobble is bad enough on one tire that it makes it look like the rim is out of true when it isn't. Clement actually sent me a free tire when I reported the problem to them. This wobble has no impact on how the tire performs so I've left it on my bike but it looks a little weird while riding if you look closely. Looking around online, lateral wobbles on cross and gravel tires are fairly common and nothing to really worry about.

Overall, tubeless is generally a PITA unless you use tubeless-specific stuff. If you do use tubeless-specific stuff it's generally no a problem at all.


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## zephxiii

I just got two Kenda 700x35c Happy Medium KSCTs mounted onto a set of Iron Cross wheels last night without much fuss with a high vol floor pump. Tires weighed in at 435g and 440g. Will be testing tomorrow on gravel. Overall pretty happy with them. 

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## zephxiii

Got a 50 mile gravel and pavement ride in yesterday. 

I'm getting the impression that the Happy Mediums feel more draggy than I expected. Idk if its soft compound, side knobs dragging, tubeless psi of 40-45, or file just not as fast rolling as I thought it would be. Maybe I'm wrong, I'm new to CX world...

On the plus side i thought they were controlled, stable, and comfy at speed. 

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## thalo

Lots of great info, thanks for the thoughts and experiences. Now to make a decision...


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## lundatok

I want to throw the Specialized Trigger 38 in the mix, excellent tires for gravel. We rode 500 km gravel over a long weekend and they kept the air and rolled well on mixed surfaces. Even though it was wet I never lacked grip.


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## zephxiii

Thought this was interesting:

https://www.google.com/amp/s/janheine.wordpress.com/2016/04/11/gravel-racing-on-compass-tires/amp/

(His comments on tire selection )



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## thalo

lundatok, is it tubeless? is the 2Bliss Ready design Spesh tubeless designation?


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## zephxiii

Yes. 

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## November Dave

zephxiii said:


> Thought this was interesting:
> 
> https://www.google.com/amp/s/janheine.wordpress.com/2016/04/11/gravel-racing-on-compass-tires/amp/
> 
> (His comments on tire selection )


Hey I know that guy Matt! Rode with him at an event in VT last summer, excellent guy. Really had no idea he was such a bada**. Thanks for that link. Good info.


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## zephxiii

Well I scored a Kenda Flintridge that I'm going to try in the rear for something faster. 



November Dave said:


> Hey I know that guy Matt! Rode with him at an event in VT last summer, excellent guy. Really had no idea he was such a bada**. Thanks for that link. Good info.


Awesome!


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## thalo

I think I have narrowed my final choices to 3, in this particular order:

1. Teravail Cannonball
2. WTB Riddler
3. Clement Xplor MSO

Found the Teravail by just some searches, looks interesting.


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## namaSSte

*Riddler*



thalo said:


> I think I have narrowed my final choices to 3, in this particular order:
> 
> 1. Teravail Cannonball
> 2. WTB Riddler
> 3. Clement Xplor MSO
> 
> Found the Teravail by just some searches, looks interesting.


I'm going to race the Riddler this coming weekend so I'll be sure to post back on my take on it. I've yet to ride the tire and have always had success with the Nano but the Riddler seems like it ought to be faster for a grinder so why not give it a shot? Stay tuned!


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## Enoch562

I had been running the Happy Medium. It was a very fast tire with good knobbies on the side. Unfortunately it is a challenge to set up tubeless although I've have had some succes doing it. You really have to work with them. Not recommended.

I recently bought some Riddlers because they were very close to the Happy mediums. Mine are the 45's. They set up excellant tubeless. Roll fast and have neice side knobbies which is what I need for the riding I do. Mine are really plump on the Arch MK rims. I'm predicting running 35 lbs or less for the gravel rides in Western N.C.


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## ddave12000

I'm a big fan of the Clement MSO 36s. I plan to run those tubeless for all gravel races this year. I ran them last year but the clincher version.


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## zephxiii

Did u have the tubeless version of the Happy Mediums? Mine setup easy in Iron Cross rims. Maybe the Arch MKs are too wide for em? 

As for now I tried a Flintridge in rear and although they measured the same width as Happy Medium at 38mm, the casing was taller with side knobs 6mm further from rim and rubbed the front der arm so i had to take it off. 

I then decided I'm going to switch to a slick like Bon Jon Pass and ended up with a Maxxis Re-Fuse 32c since I couldn't find a G-One in 35c or Bon Jon Pass in reg casing. 


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## thalo

Enoch 562, thanks for the images. helps really see what the tread looks like. 45s are much too big for my bike, Felt F65X.

zephziii, maybe with the HM 38 being so large I should look at 36mm in general just to make sure things fit?? I have never delved into tire size like this so I dont know what I am getting into. I have Pacenti SL25 rims, they have worked well so far with tubless set ups (only Bontranger CX0 so far).


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## Enoch562

My Kendas were older non tubeless version...They were extremely pourous. I did get them to work. It just took some time.

THey do make the Riddler is 38's.


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## zephxiii

thalo said:


> Enoch 562, thanks for the images. helps really see what the tread looks like. 45s are much too big for my bike, Felt F65X.
> 
> zephziii, maybe with the HM 38 being so large I should look at 36mm in general just to make sure things fit?? I have never delved into tire size like this so I dont know what I am getting into. I have Pacenti SL25 rims, they have worked well so far with tubless set ups (only Bontranger CX0 so far).


Yeah 35 or 36 is what I'm trying to shoot for...which is likely to grow to 38mm as per the two 35s i've tried so far. I don't think I could go with 38s as I would expect them to get larger. 



Enoch562 said:


> My Kendas were older non tubeless version...They were extremely pourous. I did get them to work. It just took some time.
> 
> THey do make the Riddler is 38's.


Ah yeah that's why. The tubeless casings are pretty much sealed up from the factory. With non tubeless casings that are porous I've found something like Orange Seal works a lot better to seal them up as it will apply a thin latex layer. One must spin the wheel a lot right after install to get the sealant spread all over, like ride around the hood for a while.


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## zephxiii

WELL NOW...

I mounted up a Maxxis Re-Fuse 32c tubeless tire yesterday in the rear which replaced a Happy Medium 35c (Tubeless version). Still had a Happy Medium up front. 

I did a 40 mile urban ride with a little test gravel mixed in, and even a tiny bit of singletrack. 

Man the Re-Fuse felt so much faster than the Happy Medium. The casing, even though only 60tpi, was a lot more supple too. It also felt lighter which is odd cuz it's only a 50-60g difference. But in sprints the bike was a lot more responsive in acceleration and power output. 

This tire is great and you know what? I'm buying another one to have a matching front and dedicating a wheelset to it. It's gonna be my fast rolling go anywhere as efficient as possible but also tubeless and kinda bulletproof wheel/tire combo. 

I will say that having a fast Re-Fuse in back and a Happy Medium up front was a great combination. Speed in back, control up front.

I wish Maxxis had a 35c version for a lil more float and grip though.

In addition to the Re-Fuse I am gonna try out a Clement MSO 36. 

My issue with the Happy Medium is that it made my new CX bike feel draggy compared to my HT MTB with bald XR1 and Race King up front. 

I'm hoping the MSO will be a very fast tire with grip, I'm going to try it up front first and see how it rolls. If it is ideal I'll have a separate wheelset for it...even though I'm pretty good at changing tires. 



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## bikerector

zephxiii said:


> WELL NOW...
> 
> I mounted up a Maxxis Re-Fuse 32c tubeless tire yesterday in the rear which replaced a Happy Medium 35c (Tubeless version). Still had a Happy Medium up front.
> 
> I did a 40 mile urban ride with a little test gravel mixed in, and even a tiny bit of singletrack.
> 
> Man the Re-Fuse felt so much faster than the Happy Medium. The casing, even though only 60tpi, was a lot more supple too. It also felt lighter which is odd cuz it's only a 50-60g difference. But in sprints the bike was a lot more responsive in acceleration and power output.
> 
> This tire is great and you know what? I'm buying another one to have a matching front and dedicating a wheelset to it. It's gonna be my fast rolling go anywhere as efficient as possible but also tubeless and kinda bulletproof wheel/tire combo.
> 
> I will say that having a fast Re-Fuse in back and a Happy Medium up front was a great combination. Speed in back, control up front.
> 
> I wish Maxxis had a 35c version for a lil more float and grip though.
> 
> In addition to the Re-Fuse I am gonna try out a Clement MSO 36.
> 
> My issue with the Happy Medium is that it made my new CX bike feel draggy compared to my HT MTB with bald XR1 and Race King up front.
> 
> I'm hoping the MSO will be a very fast tire with grip, I'm going to try it up front first and see how it rolls. If it is ideal I'll have a separate wheelset for it...even though I'm pretty good at changing tires.
> 
> 
> 
> Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G900A using Tapatalk


If you haven't tried many other tubeless tires, the maxxis refuse is a pretty slow tire. It's also not the best tire when the gravel gets loose as the rounded tire profile tends to sink more than a tire like the happy medium or something similar with a flatter profile. Having said that, the 32mm refuse is a great tire for mixed conditions and they're pretty much never going to flat outside of taking a bullet. I like them for 50/50 gravel/pavement rides and since I'm pretty much guaranteed that I won't have a flat if there's sealant in the tire. In 4 years of riding refuse tires, tubed and tubeless, only thin wires have made it through and I notice the flat the next day because the leak is slow and a tubeless tire will seal that without a problem. They're great training tire for the suburban environment where glass and car parts on the side of the road are plentiful.


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## Migen21

If you like the Maxxis Refuse 32mm, you would *love* the Clement Strada USH 32mm. It's a much higher quality tire in just about every way.


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## zephxiii

That USH does look very good. I wasn't aware of it until now. I have a set of MSO 120tpi on the way...kinda liking Clement's thinking on tires.

idk I thought the Re-Fuse rolled pretty well, and the casing seems supple enough to absorb bumps easily. I was kinda not happy with my bike til I started rolling it in the back, it felt too slow before. Our gravel races are usually pretty hard packed unless dusty and chunky in a loose kinda way. 

If MM is anything like last year, hard and fast, the Re-Fuse should be awesome.


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## Migen21

I've posted these in other threads, but for anyone interested, here are some Schwalbe G-One Speed 700x30 Tubeless Gravel Tire on my BMC RoadMachine.

https://flic.kr/s/aHskSGNHEB

And FWIW, I have used the Clement X'Plor USH (700x36) with tubes, the Clement Strada USH Tubeless (700x32), and the Clement X'Plor MSO Tubeless (on other bikes) - They are all fantastic - Tubeless setup was a breeze on all of them and the tires are really good - great ride - durable, and decent wearing. The USH's both and a center bead and are well suited to tarmac and gravel - the MSO is more of a gravel specific and probably not long lasting on tarmac.


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## andy13

My wife had a nasty sidewall cut at DK200 last year on a X'Plor MSO Tubeless (36mm). Anyone have opinions on if the Maxxis 60tpi Rambler DC/SS/TR would fare better?


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## Migen21

andy13 said:


> My wife had a nasty sidewall cut at DK200 last year on a X'Plor MSO Tubeless (38mm). Anyone have opinions on if the Maxxis 60tpi Rambler DC/SS/TR would fare better?


Doesn't everyone get nasty sidewall cuts at DK (regardless of tire choice!)?


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## andy13

Well......that was her 4th DK200 and her first flat of any kind. We have had good luck with Schwalbe Marathon non-tubeless tires but running them tubeless, but I thought the Clement X'Plor MSO would be better in the gravel.


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## Migen21

andy13 said:


> Well......that was her 4th DK200 and her first flat of any kind. We have had good luck with Schwalbe Marathon non-tubeless tires but running them tubeless, but I thought the Clement X'Plor MSO would be better in the gravel.


The Clement is a far more comfortable and higher performance tire than a Marathon. Marathon is designed specifically for durability at the cost of weight and ride quality.

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## zephxiii

Coulda just been a freak cut...i slashed the sidewall of a Ground Control at Ore 2 Shore last year on my mtb which was pretty odd. I had been rolling that tire for over a year before then. 

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## andy13

Yea, she said she bombed through a gulley with water covering all the rocks. She admitted she deserved to flat 
Still wondering on the casings of the two tires and which would be more resistant to cuts. X'Plor MSO 36mm (tpi?) vs. Maxxis Rambler 38mm 60tpi with SS. TIA.


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## bikerector

I believe the Ore 2 Shore race is known for slashing sidewalls because of the rocks and people trying to run lighter tires for the event.

If the 32mm refuse tires are slow (which they are) imagine how fast some of the other, nicer tires will feel. Don't get me wrong, I like the refuse and they have a place in tire options, but being fast and racey is not one of them. They are strong, flat resistant, and very overbuilt so you can ride without worrying about the tire flatting or getting cut. Many of my CX race tires will roll faster than the refuse, even with knobs, but CX race tires aren't the most flat resistant tires either and they tend to put speed above durability whereas the refuse is the other way around.


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## zephxiii

bikerector said:


> I believe the Ore 2 Shore race is known for slashing sidewalls because of the rocks and people trying to run lighter tires for the event.
> 
> If the 32mm refuse tires are slow (which they are) imagine how fast some of the other, nicer tires will feel. Don't get me wrong, I like the refuse and they have a place in tire options, but being fast and racey is not one of them. They are strong, flat resistant, and very overbuilt so you can ride without worrying about the tire flatting or getting cut. Many of my CX race tires will roll faster than the refuse, even with knobs, but CX race tires aren't the most flat resistant tires either and they tend to put speed above durability whereas the refuse is the other way around.


I can see what you mean by the slowness of the Re-Fuse. 

Since my last posting I've ran the Re-Fuse rear and MSO front combo in two races. First race was peanut butter wet/muddy (but not sticky). Second race was less peanut butter and faster, yet in the rain. Before the first race I rode that course in dry dusty chunky conditions. Both tires handled all situations well. 

The only thing I thought about Re-Fuse while in the wet conditions was "hey it's doing just fine back there" despite how you think a bald tire would do. I guess we can attribute some of that to the sandy nature of Michigan roads. 

After those two I mounted the other Re-Fuse up on the OEM wheel (tubeless as well) and did some urban/gravel riding. Rolling them both front and back did make me think they were not the fastest. 

Right before the third race I felt an urge of curiosity to mount up the other MSO in rear to replace the Re-Fuse. I had thought about the more squarish profile and supple casing and couldn't resist trying it out. 

Having just rode Re-Fuses back to back on a couple of rides, I could feel a difference the very moment i started rolling the MSO front/back. They felt thin, good, supple, and seemed to roll easier. 

They felt really fast during the 3rd gravel race and was shocked how fast they felt on pavement on a 40 mile roll the next day. I'm pretty sold on MSOs now. 

I also got to do a quick spin on a set of 38mm G-Ones (tubeless) and those felt very fast too. I think the MSO's tread pattern will wear better in the rear though. 

Unfortunately my rear MSO is quite the wiggly bastard. At least it's just lateral wiggle instead of a radial hop.


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## thalo

An update on my tire search.

1. I went with the WTB Riddlers @37c because the distributors could not get the other two in (I was going to order 1 of all three and kind of test them). They set up well on my Pacenti SL25. The 37c was about as wide as I can go on the rear of my Felt F65X (maybe 38c)

2. I rode my gravel race today, Lost & Found. This year it was a bit gnarlier that previous years due to the plentiful snow we got in the area this year. For the most part, the gravel road sections were okay, but there were some heavily washed out areas, including a 4' deep stream crossing. There were some good sections with plenty of jutting rocks and ruts across the road. I was bobbing and weaving the rocks and hopping the ruts. I had a bit of anxiety before the race in regards to the tires holding up through the ride (57 miles, 3400 elevation) and everything was fine.

3. The Riddlers were great tires for this ride, there was some pavement on the course and they rolled well, had a 45 mph max. Also, fast on the flat gravel/dirt roads, good traction on the climbs and held up well under the rough conditions. I am pleased with my "choice" (by default) and would recommend them with my limited experience.

Hope this is helpful for someone.


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## Upnorth

After ripping the sidewall out of 3 G1's in 3 weeks I have switched to the Teravail Cannonballs love them so far. Easiest tubeless tire to install - sealed up with two pumps from regular floor pump. Holding up great on rough gravel so far. 200#+ rider.


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## aminkman

Upnorth said:


> After ripping the sidewall out of 3 G1's in 3 weeks I have switched to the Teravail Cannonballs love them so far. Easiest tubeless tire to install - sealed up with two pumps from regular floor pump. Holding up great on rough gravel so far. 200#+ rider.


I've been using 38mm G-One's for a little over a year and have no complaints. They roll fast on pavement and the dirt. I ride mostly fast rolling single track with rock patches here and there. About the only thing I can complain about is loose, rocky descents - not much braking. How would you describe the Cannonballs directly to the G-Ones, not counting the 3 sidewall cuts. I'm about 180# and run 32# rear and 30# front and love going fast on my local Mt Bike trails


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