# Cycling Socks?



## igotyofire (Nov 27, 2011)

Do I need to purchase cycling specific socks or do they just need to made out of a certain material?


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## MotoGreg (Feb 26, 2007)

If I wear socks like the Nike cool max or whatever they're called, like golf socks that are supposed to keep your feet cool I have a problem... My feet get a burning hot spot with them and I finally came to the conclusion that they're too slippery and must allow my feet to slightly move in the shoe with each rotation which builds up friction. I don't have the problem with normal cotton socks.


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## Hooben (Aug 22, 2004)

The thinking is that manufacturers of cycling socks place padding where you need it. The sock is very thin where you don't. Most everyone I know wears cycling socks, including me.


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## erik1245 (Jan 6, 2012)

I don't wear cycling socks. I have one pair that I got for free, and I usually wear them post-race because they're semi-compression-style.

However, as one of my teammates said, "If you plan on winning, you gotta wear white socks." The day after he said that, he wore black socks, and he had to take a DNF for both crits he started that day because he couldn't hang with the pack. Proof of concept.


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## pivo (Sep 9, 2011)

Vanity is a big part of cycling clothing, including socks (I'm guilty). I wear Merino socks and find that they are comfy, cool in summer and warmer in winter. They also keep my feet dryer than most other socks. Most cycling socks are very over priced for what they actually are. Look for sales online or at your LBS.


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## bernithebiker (Sep 26, 2011)

As much as I love spending money on bike stuff, this is where I draw the line. Socks are socks, surely? What's is 'cycling specific' about them?!


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## jtsk (Mar 6, 2002)

I too draw the line at spending extra money on cycling specific socks. Just stay away from cotton socks. 

I stopped buying cycling specific socks s few years back. Went to running / other 'sport' socks....Adidas, Nike Dry Fit, etc. Currently Nike Dry Fit are my favorites.

Basically the same materials for moisture wicking with slightly more padding on the bottom of the foot than cycling socks. Available in either black or white, they're a cheaper alternative....roughly half the price of cycling specific socks and widely available.


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## zonefinder (Feb 21, 2012)

Just as long as its comfortable.


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## kbwh (May 28, 2010)

Socks must be all white and the word _Campagnolo_ must be easily readable on the cuff.


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## Salsa_Lover (Jul 6, 2008)

Best to have thin socks so your Sidis or Gaernes can have a tight fit


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## tuck (Oct 4, 2011)

Plain, white, ankle-height socks FTW. 

I'd rather spend all the money I'll save from drawing the line at socks over a year's period on somehing cool...like a new set of carbon wheels.


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## scottzj (Oct 4, 2010)

Cycling socks are actually designed for a purpose. Compression fit and wicking material, they both help in making long rides more comfortable. Getting a great wicking material sock is worth every penny, as it removes or pull the moisture away from your feet.


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## JCavilia (Sep 12, 2005)

tuck said:


> Plain, white, andle-height socks FTW.
> 
> I'd rather spend all the money I'll save from drawing the line at socks over a year's period on somehing cool...like a new set of carbon wheels.


Well, it's not like you're talking about a lot of money. 10 bucks a year is gonna get you a set of carbon wheels?

I like these:
Performance Elite CoolMax Socks - Cycling Socks
6 or 7 bucks a pair, and they last. I've probably bought 10 or 12 pairs over the last 20 years.

igotyofire, you don't need cycling-specific socks, but they have a few basic features you want: they're thin, made of wicking material, fit well, stretchy so they don't move around or bunch up or cause lumps. Performance coolmax ones I use meet all those requirements, for not much money.

Personally, I think cotton is a terrible fiber for socks of any kind. It gets wet and stays wet. Wool or synthetics wick moisture.


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## ZoSoSwiM (Mar 7, 2008)

Smartwool socks when it's chilly.. thin sport socks when it's warm. I don't care what brand. Cotton socks suck...


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## qatarbhoy (Aug 17, 2009)

DeFeet and Assos make lovely comfortable cycling socks with padding in the right places and breathability elsewhere. You can almost always find good quality cycling socks in sales. We're only talking a few $$$ extra if you shop around. 

Raw, sore feet is a quick way to kill the enjoyment you get out of cycling. For me, it's a price worth paying.


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## Love Commander (Aug 20, 2009)

I won't let cotton socks into my home.


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## westrider7 (Jun 14, 2009)

No! you have to have cycling socks. Or at least thin ones. Keep them foot puppies nice and cool.

Extra points if they are pink...


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## BostonG (Apr 13, 2010)

Cycling specific socks are maybe $1 more per pair - worth it IMO. I don't need a full matching kit or anything crazy but I like to feel put together when I am on a longer ride or out with a group. Cycling socks have the right moisture wicking, breathability, support, length, etc. Maybe some non cycling socks do also but maybe not. 

We’re talking pennies more for something that lasts a good while so I wouldn’t fret over it too much. Personally, I think you’ll feel better with a cycling sock for both function and aesthetics. When it’s cold however, I just go with a nice pair of smartwool. They’re pretty awesome. 

BTW, lots of people don’t even wear socks – I tried that, very primal.


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## cyclusaddictus (Dec 8, 2011)

It all depends what's on your feet. If you have proper cycling shoes (i.e. that fit properly) then cycling socks are a good idea. If the socks don't fit right you'll have trouble also, either creases under the shoe against your foot, or too tight and limiting blood flow. I used to think it didn't matter until I started paying attention to my feet, then I learned. The wicking effect is good in hot weather, and in cold weather your better off with a bootie and still wearing the proper shoes/socks. Layering, just like your clothing, not too tight or loose. FWIW, Sidi shoes all the way man.


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## Oxtox (Aug 16, 2006)

tried barefooting. better tan lines, but not that comfy.

tried some Nike golf socks for a while...they were meh.

tried the Performance brand and they sucked...first trip thru the dryer and they went from size 11 to size 5.

been using the PI ankle-high socks that come in a 3-pack...there's good deals on Amazon from time to time...not very expensive and seem to last about a year.


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## old_fuji (Mar 16, 2009)

I was a skeptic, but now I'm not. They're totally worth it.


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## Chainstay (Mar 13, 2004)

*Cycling socks are really nice*

I like cycling socks so much that I wear them even when I'm not cycling


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## Gimme Shoulder (Feb 10, 2004)

...'nough said....


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## Kneedragon (Jul 27, 2010)

Cycling specific socks are compression fit with moisture wicking that will help keep your feet cool and relatively dry. 

Don't skimp out on any of the 3 contact points: hands, feet, butt.


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## lk1965 (Dec 18, 2011)

I'm partial to Smartwool - Light for fall/spring, Ultralight for hot summer days....and Defeet - Blaze for cold weather, Wooleator for warm weather.


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## arai_speed (Aug 19, 2003)

I rock these, Costco sells them and they are cheap.


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## Digger51 (May 12, 2006)

I wear X Socks and Sock Guy. Yes, they are worth it.


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## Clipped_in (May 5, 2011)

arai_speed said:


> I rock these, Costco sells them and they are cheap.


Me too! I have a drawer full of cycling socks, but the Costco socks are what I use most of the time. Except when it's cold - then I wear Costco Merino wool hiking socks.


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## torch511 (Mar 4, 2012)

Honestly I don't think that you need cycling specific socks, but I would not wear the typical department store Hanes/Fruit of the Loom either.

I have lots of cycling specific socks, mostly team/shop branded which I get for next to nothing, but I have a bunch from DeFeet, Pearl Izumi, Specialized and probably my favorite: Swiftwick. I also wear general athletic type socks from Reebok/Nike that are of very similar construction and material. A lot of the people I ride with heckle me about this, but I have some Livestrong socks that are just soooooooo comfortable. They're more for running but I don't care.


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## Yolajeff (Aug 24, 2011)

Digger51 said:


> I wear X Socks and Sock Guy. Yes, they are worth it.


Sock Guys:thumbsup:
SockGuy


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## EMB145 Driver (Aug 17, 2006)

Swiftwick Compression Socks - The Best Athletic Performance Socks, Guaranteed


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## vautrain (Mar 1, 2012)

I wear SmartWool or any good merino wool sock, year round. SmartWool makes some pretty good cycling socks, which I also wear running on occasion, they work fine for either purpose. I think any good wicking, reasonably thin athletic sock (merino for me) will do the trick.


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## cyclesport45 (Dec 10, 2007)

If you're not wearing Carbon Fiber socks, you're a nothing. A nobody. Inconsequential. You don't even deserve to post on RBR.


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## velodog (Sep 26, 2007)

Here's sierra outfitters list of Smartwool socks. They have other brands also.

And once your a customer the sales get better.

Results for "smartwool socks" up to 48% off at Sierra Trading Post


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## EHietpas (Feb 9, 2012)

Smartwool Running Socks all year round.


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## haendelbars (Nov 18, 2011)

If your feet are heating up it might not be the sock. Mine do that if my cleat is too far forward. (if you're not wearing cleats, please disregard).


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## asvc (Mar 14, 2012)

X-socks are good for me.. Decent moisture regulation. But they are quite pricey, so I have plans to try something cheaper.


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## velocanman (Jul 15, 2011)

I wear thin cycling socks and you shoud try them out too. Stuff like this wouldn't last if it wasn't worthwhile. 

I think one of the advantages of the thin cycling socks is they help you keep your shoes snug without overcompression. They also wick moisture better and keep your feet cool, as others have said.

I started as a runner and used to swear by thin double -layer socks which reduce blisters on long events. I wore them when I started cycling. Sounded like a good idea, but our feet don't really move much in the shoe--they rotate with the shoe. So my feet were swimming in sweat from the extra layer. My point is there are sometimes good reasons behind sport-specific apparel.


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## Mr. Versatile (Nov 24, 2005)

arai_speed said:


> I rock these, Costco sells them and they are cheap.


These are great. I bought 6 pair a couple of years ago & all 6 are still in perfect condition. For summer socks I wear these exclusively.


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## igotyofire (Nov 27, 2011)

Looks like my first thread creation on these forums was a success. I only started it because someone mentioned i shouldn't be riding around in plain regular cotton socks like hanes. I did notice on one ride my feet got hot but could have been due to other reasons. Today while in costco shopping for other things I remembered the adidas socks mentioned in this thread & decided to pick some up.


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## Clipped_in (May 5, 2011)

igotyofire said:


> Today while in costco shopping for other things I remembered the adidas socks mentioned in this thread & decided to pick some up.


Give them a go and let us know what you think.


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## frankdatank1337 (Jul 25, 2010)

I buy cheap sport socks from Ross. I personally believe the need for cycling specific socks depends on your feet. If they sweat a lot or overheat then get some cycling socks. Although, if you're like me anything works. I own a few pairs of cycling socks and dont care much for them.


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## Ripper4life (Nov 23, 2011)

Keeping your feet comfortable is important, so yes, investing in good socks is definitely a smart idea. The most comfortable socks I've ever ridden in are Swiftwicks. They last forever, offer nice compression and are just plain comfortable. I have about 5 pairs I wear all the time.


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## velohound (Apr 21, 2008)

do a blend


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## Camilo (Jun 23, 2007)

Hooben said:


> The thinking is that manufacturers of cycling socks place padding where you need it. The sock is very thin where you don't. Most everyone I know wears cycling socks, including me.



I have a couple pair of "real" cycling socks (name brand cycling socks bought from a bike shop). They indeed have thick-ish areas and thin-ish areas. 

Last year I was looking at running socks at Sports Authority, I think they were a 3 pak of Nike brand. They too have thick-ish and thin-ish areas, and those areas are pretty much identical in size and location to my cycling socks. So I bought them and they work perfectly.

All these socks are made with synthetic material, cool max and such.

So, it is true that cycling socks have some specific design features and materials, but from my experience, the design features and materials are the same as decent quality running socks.

Except that you usually can't find running socks in the butt-ugly garish colors that are so popular with cyclists who like to look like a 60's op-art billboard when they ride.


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## robc in wi (Sep 8, 2011)

I have been wearing cycling specific socks for the better part of 20 years. They have gotten more expensive and the thinner but I need socks that breathe and wick moisture. The old Pearl Izumi socks would last for years before wearing out. I wear Sock Guy pretty much exclusively these days. I Googled "cheap cycling socks" the other month and came up with a website that sells grab bags of 6 pairs for $19.99 plus $4 shipping. My grab bag was all Sock Guy and ranged from a pair of (university of)Texas Wrestling logos to obscure cycling event socks. They were all quality socks and $4 a pair is a great price these days. Cheapest the nearby LBS sells are $11 a pair.


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## Undecided (Apr 2, 2007)

bernithebiker said:


> As much as I love spending money on bike stuff, this is where I draw the line. Socks are socks, surely? What's is 'cycling specific' about them?!


That's why I just buy cycling socks.


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## smoothie7 (Apr 11, 2011)

I have some pearl izumi socks and really like them. I would highly recommend cycling socks. It makes you look cool too


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## Jpeconsult (Sep 28, 2011)

I prefer Oakley low compression socks, but also wear the Bontrager ankle socks.


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## RC28 (May 9, 2002)

Capo
Defeet
Pearl Izumi

In that order , those are my current favorites.


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## RStewinCA (Jun 21, 2011)

I have and like the Pearl Izumi cycling socks.

I have bought plenty of the Adidas socks from Costco, and I love them for everyday use. I also wear them cycling from time to time. I have to try to keep them hidden from the rest of the family or they tend to disappear.


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## lslance (Jul 23, 2008)

Defeet socks all the way! I've been wearing these socks for years, used them for running and cycling. Light and cool, plus they are made in the USA!


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## KoroninK (Aug 9, 2010)

Yes, but then again I also wear them for work. I'm on my feet all the time for work and they are some of the better socks to keep my feet from killing me after being on them all day.


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## 4Crawler (Jul 13, 2011)

But you better watch the length on whatever socks you go with, or the UCI will be after you 

- UCI to require lawyer tabs, dictate Camelbak placement and sock length


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## wade.holler (Jan 29, 2012)

I have three pair from www twinsix com If I could wear them everyday I would. They dry so fast I am never sure they ever get wet.


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## nOOky (Mar 20, 2009)

I never wear cycling-specific socks, and I wouldn't be dead caught wearing all white socks.
I wear some sort of either Champion C9 no show socks in the summer, or Darn Tough merino wool running socks when it's chilly out.
Nothing worse than the tan line from cycling socks when you're dressed like a normal person when not cycling


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## qatarbhoy (Aug 17, 2009)

nOOky said:


> I never wear cycling-specific socks, and I wouldn't be dead caught wearing all white socks.
> I wear some sort of either Champion C9 no show socks in the summer, or Darn Tough merino wool running socks when it's chilly out.
> Nothing worse than the tan line from cycling socks when you're dressed like a normal person when not cycling


So many errors here, n00ky!

1. all-white socks are _de rigeur_ for cycling - or at least _nearly _all white - logos, discreet stripes etc are okay. (NB not to be confused with 'nearly white'... ugh.)

2. no show socks... while cycling... are deadly Fredly.

3. the tan lines you get form cycling are the epitome of cool, in any situation. When people ask about your weird coloration (eg the white hands, dark forearms, white shoulders panda effect), explain with pride.


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## nOOky (Mar 20, 2009)

Luckily I don't frequent the coffee shops where those kinds of "cyclists" congregate, I'm usually just out riding :thumbsup:

I have been known to wear my cycling socks with my hiking boots however, they are the perfect length for mid-height hikers.


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## Blackbeerthepirate (Apr 26, 2011)

Sock Guy and P.Is with my Carnac shoes. Thorlo with the P.I. Tri-Flys when it's really hot.


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## carlislegeorge (Mar 28, 2004)

EMB145 Driver said:


> Swiftwick Compression Socks - The Best Athletic Performance Socks, Guaranteed


+1 
best of the many brands I've tried, including all mentioned so far in this thread


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## lilphoton (Mar 25, 2012)

i had been wondering this same thing. i've been cycling for the last 5 or so years and just wear my normal cotton socks. i'm gonna try the affordable PI socks and see. thanks for the recommendation.


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## SprinterX (May 21, 2012)

As a total newbie I took the info from this thread and went to Costco. Found a nice six-pack set of adidas performance socks. Low height, multiple thicknesses, mesh uppers and all the right fabrics. Best part, they cost only $14. Ye Haaaaw.


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## Digger51 (May 12, 2006)

Cycling socks are cheap...why not get a couple of pair. Besides Sock Guy has some really cool designs.


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## Digger51 (May 12, 2006)

Chainstay said:


> I like cycling socks so much that I wear them even when I'm not cycling


Me too. It is causal day in the office and I have on a pair of cycling socks from Sock Guy.


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## Digger51 (May 12, 2006)

frankdatank1337 said:


> I buy cheap sport socks from Ross. I personally believe the need for cycling specific socks depends on your feet. If they sweat a lot or overheat then get some cycling socks. Although, if you're like me anything works. I own a few pairs of cycling socks and dont care much for them.


Ross carries nice this wicking socks made by Under Armor that might work for cycling. I have a couple of pair, use them more for everyday use and not for cycling, but they are vey similar to by cycling scocks.


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## SprinterX (May 21, 2012)

Digger51 said:


> Cycling socks are cheap...why not get a couple of pair. Besides Sock Guy has some really cool designs.


That's what I was all set to do. A few guys said they had found good socks at Costco so that's why I tried there first. Like I said above, they seem to have all the specs and requirements for a good cycling sock and they were cheap cheap cheap. Six pair should last for some time. Rode with them today and they worked great.

Thanx roadbikereview :thumbsup:


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## mow4cash (May 29, 2012)

I buy cycling specific socks because there the same price as any other sport specific sock. Darn tough socks come with a lifetime warranty. So I could also say I buy cycling socks because there cheaper then normal socks. I buy specific socks for all my sports and while they are basically the same they do work slightly better when used on the correct sport.


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## Sharknose (Aug 9, 2010)

I love buying cycling socks - they are like little team jerseys for your feet. But I can't tell the difference between my "cycling" socks and my "running" socks in actual use. I generally choose based on weather + style whims. Shorter, thin socks if hot, thicker, tall socks if cold.


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## Ferndog (Mar 2, 2012)

I'm a diabetic. I wear any sock that doesn't have seams that irritate me and are comfortable.


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## qatarbhoy (Aug 17, 2009)

I got some socks from Twin Six and like them a lot. The black ones with grey skulls ( = subtle...) to go with my black kits, and a Crank pair to match my Crank jersey. The look of the latter is slightly disappointing inasmuch as the white band looks grey, because the sock has a black base, but the overall effect with the jersey is pleasing.

For the EuroPRO look I like my Zappi socks from Signor Zappi (former pro cyclist now living in Oxford): white with Italian tricolour stripes. They are lightweight and look the part especially with the matching jersey and cap. 

I happily pay a few dollars more for cycling-specific socks, just to be sure I have the Poseur look down pat.


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## Dresden (May 26, 2009)

I have some Pearl Izumi cycling socks that are marked "R" and "L". If they had put the marking somewhere visible when the shoes are on instead of near the toe, I'd say those would win the poseur grand prize. I haven't tempted fate by wearing them on the wrong feet yet.


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## rcharb (Sep 7, 2011)

Ok someone explain the white sock rule to me?

Red and black bike, black shoes, black shorts, multi color jersey, black helmet, why in the h*ll would I want to wear white socks?


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## erik1245 (Jan 6, 2012)

rcharb said:


> Ok someone explain the white sock rule to me?
> 
> Red and black bike, black shoes, black shorts, multi color jersey, black helmet, why in the h*ll would I want to wear white socks?




"Socks can be any damn colour you like." Velominati › The Rules


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## TxTigah (Jun 10, 2012)

I am a heavy sweater and the socks are essential for me to keep from getting blisters. But, I have found that not all of the socks are created equal. I have purchased socks wore them one time and they would bunch up and become very uncomfortable and they were not cheap off brand socks.


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## Easyup (Feb 26, 2012)

Less than 20 miles in good weather I will even wear cotton socks
Over 20 in nice weather most any cycling socks, but in hot or cold weather Icebreaker merino wool only


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## Kuma601 (Jan 22, 2004)

At the time BonkTown had plenty of Castelli socks coming up on sale. 3 pair for $12 or like, I liked so many color combos I accumulated about 15 pairs. Before cycling specific socks, I would find the thin ankle length ones in the women's section. I paid about $6 for 3 pair in the day. 

Only time I wear the thicker cotton blends is when I ride the commuter bike that has platform pedals with sneakers. Still ankle length BTW.


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## binorx (Jun 12, 2011)

Swiftwick. Best cycling apparel purchase I have made all year. Compression helps with numbness


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## ecub (Sep 2, 2011)

I wear regular sports socks. Mostly Nike.


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## dcorn (Sep 1, 2011)

I wear compression/moisture wicking no-show Under Armour socks pretty much every day, so no, I don't buy cycling specific socks.


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## ryan141 (Mar 21, 2012)

I do not wear socks! There, I said it.


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## jlmjr (Jun 22, 2012)

I'm a beginner and have been wondering the same thing.


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## Skoezie (Jun 15, 2012)

Nike running socks do the trick. Even labelled L & R, so i can keep my feet apart


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## jacksdad (Aug 7, 2012)

A must for the reasons mentioned several times already; wicking and proper fit with cycling shoes.


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## Fireform (Dec 15, 2005)

I love my Dopers Suck socks. Even if they're black.


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## jspharmd (May 24, 2006)

EMB145 Driver said:


> Swiftwick Compression Socks - The Best Athletic Performance Socks, Guaranteed


^^^This hands down!


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## MattC555 (Jul 31, 2012)

As said prior, Swiftwick socks are awesome.


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## Fredrik1 (Nov 26, 2002)

First, I worked out shoe comfort including cleat positioning. I'm good on this.

Target used to have house brand sports socks that I bought up and still wear on many training rides. Wish they still made them. )c; Have had some great and some not so great cycling socks (Biemme and others). Last year I bought Injinji toe sox from my local running shop. Bought toesox brand this year. Love them all.


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## NJBiker72 (Jul 9, 2011)

I have 3 pairs of cycling specific socks. I use them on longer rides but more because I like the look. Agree with the previous poster that Target store brand were sometimes great, although some were terrible. My favorite non cycling specific socks seem to be Puma which I picked up at TJ Maxx killing time this spring. Really no difference. Any decent gym sock will do in my opinion.


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## gumbafish (Jan 11, 2011)

I just wear athletic socks from Adidas or Puma that I get at TJMaxx.


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## MattSoutherden (Jun 24, 2009)

Defeet - Wooleator or Classico for spring/summer. Woolie Boolie for cold days.

When it's freezing, I usually wear a pair of ski socks with my winter boots.

If you're riding < 100km a week, wear whatever socks you like.


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## bwbishop (Sep 17, 2011)

igotyofire said:


> Do I need to purchase cycling specific socks or do they just need to made out of a certain material?


Any sport sock works. Don't waste money on cycling specific. You can usually find good deals at Ross or Burlington.


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## Blackbeerthepirate (Apr 26, 2011)

erik1245 said:


> "Socks can be any damn colour you like." Velominati › The Rules



Yes but the red socks are the fastest. It's an interweb fact.




ryan141 said:


> I do not wear socks! There, I said it.


I rode yesterday between showers, well almost between showers.
I wore NO SOCKS whatever the miracle fabric, they feel like crap when soaked
....and TRI SHOES:yikes: they are made to be worn with no socks and they drain well.

I know, crazy huh?
With all these deficits I managed to complete my ride and at no time did I feel the need to throw my bike down and either run or swim.


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## cmtbiz (Jan 8, 2013)

I would wear any kind of thin cotton socks.. mostly Nike or Sketchers. I do have a few pairs of those vanity Cycling socks, just in case joining a group you dont want to be left out in styles.

Any socks are ok, as long as they are not those office leather shoe socks or those knee high ones or thin like stockings. That would look fugly on road bikes. LOL


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## carbonconvert (Apr 12, 2009)

Socks are not socks, at least for cycling.
At least construction wise, a thin snug fit like your bibs or jersey.
You don't want padded heels or reinforced toes or gym socks!
The newer fabrics that wick and breath increase comfort.
They don't have to be Assos and can be found on sale anywhere.
Basically same reasoning not to cheap out on bibs or jerseys.
Isn't your comfort worth it?
Using thick socks to make up for poor fitting shoes is not the way to go.
If you ski, somewhat similar to fitting a boot IMO.


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## Doug B (Sep 11, 2009)

jtsk said:


> I too draw the line at spending extra money on cycling specific socks. Just stay away from cotton socks.
> 
> I stopped buying cycling specific socks s few years back. Went to running / other 'sport' socks....Adidas, Nike Dry Fit, etc. Currently Nike Dry Fit are my favorites.
> 
> Basically the same materials for moisture wicking with slightly more padding on the bottom of the foot than cycling socks. Available in either black or white, they're a cheaper alternative....roughly half the price of cycling specific socks and widely available.



Me too. And I get the super short socks, so no funny tan lines three inches above my ankle.


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## MattSoutherden (Jun 24, 2009)

Doug B said:


> ..so no funny tan lines


:nono:

Rule #7


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## c_h_i_n_a_m_a_n (Mar 3, 2012)

There sure is a lot to chat about socks ... :ihih:


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