# Use of "body cameras" for cyclists - in response to recent hit-and-run accidents



## Erik_A (Sep 14, 2008)

*Use of "body cameras" for cyclists - in response to recent hit-and-run accidents*

I highly recommend this podcast, interviewing Josh Zisson an attorney in Boston, with his own practice specializing in bike law: E059 ? Josh Zisson: Bike Safe Boston | The Sprocket Podcast 

(and see his web-site: Bike Safe Boston: a Boston biking blog, written by a lawyer specializing in bike law ). 

Josh recommends that all cyclists use 2 cheap "police body camera" style video recorders; with one facing front and one facing backwards, whenever they ride. These simple flash memory video cameras can record a days worth of video, and you would simply strap it to your helmet, jacket, and/or backpack; and use it as a daily commute recorder. If nothing happened that day you could erase the memory (or allow the camera to continuously over-write the memory) and go about your day. However if a car hits you, you will have it all recorded. 

Josh Zisson mentions that this video evidence is key in getting a fair settlement from the motorist's insurance company to cover your rehabilitation costs.


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## RotatingShifts (Nov 12, 2006)

It's sad that it's come down to this.

I don't carry a recording device, even though I commute quite often, frequently during the dark early morning or rush hour afternoons. I'm seriously considering it, though.


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## tlg (May 11, 2011)

Why limit this to just bikes and cops? Everyone should wear a front and rear facing body camera from morning to night. Think of all the things it would benefit. 
Divorce lawyers can use it to show how miserable your spouse is.
You can use it to show that the morning paper is thrown in your bushes.
You can use it to show the coffee shop manager how rude the barista was.
You can use it to show the court that the light was yellow and not red when you sped through.
You can relive the highlights (or lowlights) of your sex life.
You can post MUCH MUCH more of your amazing life on facebook and instagram.


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## MMsRepBike (Apr 1, 2014)

I will never ride anywhere again without cameras front and back.
Learned my lesson the hard way.

Note on safety though: NEVER wear a camera on your helmet. It dramatically increases the chance of your helmet not doing it's job properly in a crash and very well might kill you. Just strap it to the bike or your chest or whatever. I strap both to my bike.


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## Bron (Jan 26, 2014)

What kind of cameras do you guys recommend? I think most the popular ones like go pro, virb, shimano dont last long enough for long rides.

Im not really a bike commuter but i do have to go through a lot of junk miles (NYC) to get to the the start point of my ride.


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## seacoaster (May 9, 2010)

MMsRepBike said:


> Note on safety though: NEVER wear a camera on your helmet. It dramatically increases the chance of your helmet not doing it's job properly in a crash and very well might kill you.


I've always wondered about the riders who have lights attached to their helmets. Seems like a lot of cyclists are in favor of them, but it would have the same effect on safety in a crash.


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## vmps (Feb 15, 2013)

*Use of "body cameras" for cyclists - in response to recent hit-and-run accidents*

Most real helmet light mounts are designed to break away


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## Mandeville (Oct 18, 2014)

MMsRepBike said:


> Note on safety though: NEVER wear a camera on your helmet. It dramatically increases the chance of your helmet not doing it's job properly in a crash and very well might kill you. Just strap it to the bike or your chest or whatever. I strap both to my bike.


I'm sure that likely you and most others in the forum know that former Formula 1 World Champion Michael Schumacher suffered a near fatal, critical injury and permanent damage to his brain when he suffered a fall while skiing. He was wearing a helmet with a camera on it when he fell at low speed and his head struck a rock. Because of his world celebrity status an intense investigation of his accident was conducted. One of the things that came out of the investigation was that the camera on his helmet was a significant factor in the degree of injury he suffered.


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## seacoaster (May 9, 2010)

vmps said:


> Most real helmet light mounts are designed to break away


True, but the direction of impact matters. I did a Google search on the topic, and the helmet cam manufacturers maintain that their mounts will break away before they pose any safety risk. There is some concern (by others) regarding the possibility that any helmet mounted device can concentrate the impact forces so that the helmet is penetrated. Sort of like the difference between getting stepped on by a boot or a spike heel.

It doesn't appear that there have been any studies on the topic.


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## vmps (Feb 15, 2013)

*Use of "body cameras" for cyclists - in response to recent hit-and-run accidents*

Either way, you're probably better off with something designed to snap off than just tying on a flashlight. Assuming you're lucky enough to be in the kind of accident where a helmet would make a difference.


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## Raymo853 (Feb 15, 2005)

tlg said:


> Why limit this to just bikes and cops? Everyone should wear a front and rear facing body camera from morning to night. Think of all the things it would benefit.
> Divorce lawyers can use it to show how miserable your spouse is.
> You can use it to show that the morning paper is thrown in your bushes.
> You can use it to show the coffee shop manager how rude the barista was.
> ...


I like you


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## Raymo853 (Feb 15, 2005)

Bron said:


> What kind of cameras do you guys recommend? I think most the popular ones like go pro, virb, shimano dont last long enough for long rides.
> 
> Im not really a bike commuter but i do have to go through a lot of junk miles (NYC) to get to the the start point of my ride.


Also remember there are a few states where you can be charged with a crime if your record a policeman. (MD def, and a growing number of other states)


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## tlg (May 11, 2011)

Raymo853 said:


> Also remember there are a few states where you can be charged with a crime if your record a policeman. (MD def, and a growing number of other states)


There are no states were you can not record the police. It's your First Amendment right.

Supreme Court Upholds Legality of Videotaping Police » Courtroom Strategy by Attorney Oscar Michelen


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## ibericb (Oct 28, 2014)

Raymo853 said:


> Also remember there are a few states where you can be charged with a crime if your record a policeman. (MD def, and a growing number of other states)


Not true. Several states have passed laws and stiffened penalties for improperly recording any conversation without appropriate permission depending on the conversation, and the participants reasonable expectation of privacy. Some of those newer laws have specified penalties specifically for illegally recording police conversations, etc. That has been misrepresented in some press reports as making illegal the recording of police activities in public. 

For a better grasp on rights broadly for recording in public, see the ACLUU's explanation here.


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## SauronHimself (Nov 21, 2012)

You don't want your camera(s) to be dirt cheap. The video quality has to be high enough to capture a license plate without trouble. I use a Sony HDR-AS100V which has outstanding quality, albeit it wasn't cheap ($300). My first helmet cam was a Contour Roam2, and while cheaper it's 1080p setting wasn't the crispest. It still covered my a$$, though, when I got hit by a drunk. It's been 1.5 years, and I'm still waiting on the insurance companies to settle. They're just stalling to buy time because they know they're going to get hosed. Just be forewarned that if you get hit and capture it on video, you will still be waiting a long time to reach closure.


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## Raymo853 (Feb 15, 2005)

tlg said:


> There are no states were you can not record the police. It's your First Amendment right.
> 
> Supreme Court Upholds Legality of Videotaping Police » Courtroom Strategy by Attorney Oscar Michelen


You are right, it is totally insane and against the true nature of the U.S. Constitution. However, that does not mean any of the state legislatures give a darn about that ruling. If I remember correctly, the IL legislature re-wrote the law right afterwards to still make it illegal while pretending to follow the court ruling. And beyond that, that does not control what the police on the street may do. Go ahead an film a cop and then when he confronts you cite that ruling. You end up with a bill from the municipality for the cops dry cleaning to get your blood out of their uniforms. Yes if you can spend 100,000's of thousands of dollars for lawyers afterwards you will win in court, but that will not undo the months you spend in jail, your broken body nor the scarlet letter of being arrested and convicted.


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## ibericb (Oct 28, 2014)

Raymo853 said:


> You are right, it is totally insane and against the true nature of the U.S. Constitution. However, that does not mean any of the state legislatures give a darn about that ruling. If I remember correctly, the IL legislature re-wrote the law right afterwards to still make it illegal while pretending to follow the court ruling. And beyond that, that does not control what the police on the street may do. Go ahead an film a cop and then when he confronts you cite that ruling. You end up with a bill from the municipality for the cops dry cleaning to get your blo out of their uniforms. Yes if you can spend 100,000's of thousands of dollars for lawerys afterwards you will win in court, but that will ot undo the months you spend in jail, your broken body nor the scarlet letter of being arrested and convicted.



It's not illegal to record police in IL, or any other state, so long as you are not recording a private conversation where there was a reasonable expectation of privacy by at least one of the parties. That is broadly prohibited In many states. What did happen in IL last year was to stiffen the penalties when it involves illegally recording a conversation with a police officer. It's reasonably well explained here. Just be sure that if you record a conversation without consent that it is not a "private" conversation. Again, see the ACLU reference I cited previously.


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## Erik_A (Sep 14, 2008)

The Rideye camera records a continuous loop and the batteries last 15 hours.


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## Erik_A (Sep 14, 2008)

A few media articles supporting this idea:

Legally Speaking with Bob Mionske: Riding with video cameras:
Legally Speaking with Bob Mionske: Riding with video cameras - VeloNews.com

Cameras Are Cyclists’ ‘Black Boxes’ in Accidents - NYTimes
http://mobile.nytimes.com/2012/07/2...eras-to-capture-accidents.html?_r=0&referrer=


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## Erik_A (Sep 14, 2008)

The "New" Cycliq Fly6 HD Rear Bike Camera/ lights are available from REI for $169 w/ free shipping:

Cycliq Fly6 HD Camera and Rear Bike Light - REI.com

Good price vs. $200 on Amazon and $249 elsewhere.

Review:
Cycliq Fly6 combination tail light and HD camera review - BikeRadar USA

Footage:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2hWxyqX9MW8


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## MMsRepBike (Apr 1, 2014)

Wow, that's a great deal. Thank you REI, this will help with getting others to buy one. Hopefully they carry the Fly12 at a great price too once it's out.


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## spdntrxi (Jul 25, 2013)

Erik_A said:


> The "New" Cycliq Fly6 HD Rear Bike Camera/ lights are available from REI for $169 w/ free shipping:
> 
> Cycliq Fly6 HD Camera and Rear Bike Light - REI.com
> 
> ...


that is an excellent price.. I have V1.... but would rather have V2 since it's smaller. I don't have racer seatpost showing on my bike...and my wife could have my old one... thanks for this !


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## crossracer (Jun 21, 2004)

Video is king. Pure and simple cops love video because it takes the whole HE said/she said out of the issue. 

Plus knowing im recorded helps keep my grumpy nature in check. LOL LOL 

I would like to find a few cameras that record for longer then 2 hours and I don't need to fuss with. 

Bill


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## velodog (Sep 26, 2007)

crossracer said:


> Video is king. Pure and simple cops love video because it takes the whole HE said/she said out of the issue.
> 
> Plus knowing im recorded helps keep my grumpy nature in check. LOL LOL
> 
> ...


My GoPro has a battery backpack that doubles it's record time to approx. 4hrs.

It's heavy but it's hanging on the bike.


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## Cyclist69 (Apr 15, 2011)

It's a sad day for common sense anrd justice that we have been reduced to doing something like this. 

Everyone is willing to do it. No one is saying something is wrong here.


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## crossracer (Jun 21, 2004)

Cyclist69 said:


> It's a sad day for common sense anrd justice that we have been reduced to doing something like this.
> 
> Everyone is willing to do it. No one is saying something is wrong here.


I agree but what can you do? I can no more keep a jerk from acting a jerk then keep the sun from rising. 
Yes we can stay off the roads completely, but that's no way to live. 
I do try to limit my exposure to azzhats, I ride when it's calm, choose roads that are less traveled and have nice shoulders. If I can't do that I use my local MUT. 
People texting and not paying attention, rage-aholics behind the wheel angry at the world for every precieved injustice. It's hard to defend against people who (even with an old whimpy car) have way more power and options then we do.


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## Cyclist69 (Apr 15, 2011)

crossracer said:


> I agree but what can you do? I can no more keep a jerk from acting a jerk then keep the sun from rising.
> Yes we can stay off the roads completely, but that's no way to live.
> I do try to limit my exposure to azzhats, I ride when it's calm, choose roads that are less traveled and have nice shoulders. If I can't do that I use my local MUT.
> People texting and not paying attention, rage-aholics behind the wheel angry at the world for every precieved injustice. It's hard to defend against people who (even with an old whimpy car) have way more power and options then we do.


You're correct. There's no easy answer.

However, that lawyer isn't doing the cyclist any favors. He's having us choose the easy solution over a permanent one.

It's like the lawyer is telling us that there's a gunman on the loose and to stay inside. 

Good advice...

However, better advice from the lawyer is to tell how to unite and eliminate the gunman so we don't need to hide inside.

Over 1.2 million people each year world wide are killed in automobile accidents.

More American's, have died in the automobile then every war ever fought by the US combined.

The problem is... Cyclist have no power!

We're too into our shiny new toy's that were not able to come together for a common cause.


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## robt57 (Jul 23, 2011)

Cyclist69 said:


> We're too into our shiny new toy's that were not able to come together for a common cause.


A little pessimistic, dismal even... But rings too true I am afraid...


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## Cyclist69 (Apr 15, 2011)

What can be done...

The lawyer is correct however, it should be done in the other direction.

For insurance reason automobiles in Russia need to have a dash cam installed.

A new law requiring the auto industry to do the same in the US.

Any modification to a camera before it's viewed by the authorities when implicated in a violation of a cyclist rights brings automatic guilty plea.

Charges, fines and fees similar of those of a DUI.


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## Tig (Feb 9, 2004)

Erik_A said:


> The Rideye camera records a continuous loop and the batteries last 15 hours.


Ordered a Rideye Black Box Cycling Camera (32GB) today. I'll post my impressions next week.









I was inspired by this article: 
Cyclist records road rage attack with helmet camera - CBS46 News


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## spdntrxi (Jul 25, 2013)

If you end up getting the go pro mount for the rideye.. Please tether it to something . I learned the hard way .. Lucky for me it was under warranty but their warranty is very short so keep that in mind. If you use the bar mount I think you will be ok.


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## Miles813 (10 mo ago)

Cyclist69 said:


> You're correct. There's no easy answer.
> 
> However, that lawyer isn't doing the cyclist any favors. He's having us choose the easy solution over a permanent one.
> 
> ...


You are confusing a lawyer for a politician or some other community leader, that is not their job.


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## Kerry Irons (Feb 25, 2002)

Miles813 said:


> You are confusing a lawyer for a politician or some other community leader, that is not their job.


Thanks for updating this thread from 7 years ago. I'm sure people were waiting for that input.


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## Miles813 (10 mo ago)

Kerry Irons said:


> Thanks for updating this thread from 7 years ago. I'm sure people were waiting for that input.


I am sure and glad to be of service. Though what I am not sure of is how it appeared on my "New" feed considering I do not go looking through old posts. Oh well, this site is populated by zombie posts. I'll pay more attention next time, my apologies.


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## Coolhand (Jul 28, 2002)

Moderators Note- a spammer resurected this thread, and was smote making it appear that Miles813 brought this back to the mortal plain with a taste for human brains, when in fact he did not start the zombie thread apocalypse.


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