# 07 Ksyrium SL tubeless conversion



## rkb (Apr 4, 2007)

Has anyone tried the conversion for the Ksyrium SLs to a tubeless setup. On the Stan's No Tubes website you can purchase the tubeless valves to make the switch. Then throw on the Hutchenson tires, set the bead and you're good. I have been a big believer in tubeless systems on my MTBs, the benefits offroad are many. Please let me know if you have tried this conversion or have any experience with road tubeless. Thanx


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## thien (Feb 18, 2004)

Francois recently went tubeless on his Ksyrium SL Premiums, which I believe is the same rim as the non-premium version, I'll see if I can get him to chime in. But from what he's told me, he's loving the tubeless..


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## Francis Cebedo (Aug 1, 2001)

I've mounted Hutchinson Tubeless tires on 2008 Mavic Ksyrium SLs. The fit of the tire bead to the rim is firm and solid.

It aired up pretty easily and it held air and the tire was true.

I then deflated it, and added Stans fluid inside to have puncture protection in addition to the tubeless system's pinch flat resistance.

I've been riding it for a couple of weeks and it is incredible at 85 psi. Look for my full review on this site.

Note, the only approved tubeless rims are Shimano and the upcoming Corima carbon. 

fc


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## rkb (Apr 4, 2007)

Thanks for the imput guys. I have been on tubeless MTB wheels/tires for a couple years now and I love the lower pressure for technical trail riding. I was unsure how the lower pressure would be on the road. Clearly the ride would be smoother, but how about the rolling resistance? Granted a tire with too much pressure has a high rolling resistance. How did you feel the speed, and cornering were on the tubeless compared to a standard tire? Also while I have not looked, how is the weight on the tubeless tires? Of course you are not going to have the weight of the tube, but some tubeless MTB tires are a lot heavier than their standard counterparts. Regarding setting the bead, I assume you set your's with compressed air. Finally- +1000 on the Stan's fluid, I have ridden many miles on MTB tires with several very large thorns in them, never lost a bit of pressure.


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## goldsbar (Apr 24, 2002)

07's - no. Ksyriums - yes. The Ksyrium is actually a great* rim for this since there are no spoke holes. Installation of the Stan's presta valve take 15 seconds. I needed to use a gas station compressor though I probably didn't soap up the tire enough. The tire is somewhat hard to get on (as you'd hope - you don't want this thing to fall off). I used regular plastic tire levers very carefully. Hutchison claims you can damage the carbon tire bead if you don't use their levers so they might be worth the small investment.

The ride is very nice and the tires seem to have low rolling resistance. Both of these are very subjective and difficult to prove. I must admit that I hadn't ridden my road bike in months (all CX bike in the Winter) so even my seat of the pants comparison is flawed. Don't expect miracles. Weight is comparable to a decent tire and tube, higher than a light race tire and light tube. Like most changes in bikes over the last 25 years, this is evolutionary, not revolutionary. You should still carry a tube.

Overall I think these are the way of the future but the change is definetely incremental. If these things catch on you should hopefully see some more small improvements. In order to catch on, you'll need to see tubeless rims below $1k. Not everyone is willing to risk their skin on Stan's.

*Only the Shimano Dura Ace wheelset is approved. Do this at your own risk. Only use approved tubeless tires.


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## goldsbar (Apr 24, 2002)

One more word of advice - don't go too low on the pressure. When at the gas station, I was afraid that I overinflated the tire so I let some air out. I squeezed the tire with my finger, the tire burped and all the air escaped in a couple of seconds. The Stan's forum (you can find my post there) claims they did testing of Ksyriums down to 80 PSI on bumpy roads with no problems. I'd stay at least 10 above that.


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## Dr_John (Oct 11, 2005)

The actual weight of the Fusion2 tubeless tires is pretty close to the claimed weight of 290 g. 

Regarding the the filling/pressure, at least with the Shimano wheels, they state in the install directions that you are supposed to inflate/deflate until you get a good lock of the bead in the rim. This took me awhile to do at home only with a floor pump but it is do-able. At least with the Shimano/Hutchinson pair, once their locked together, it's quite an effort to unseat. 

I'm certainly not recommending it, but as I mentioned in the other tubeless thread, I've ridden on one as low as 60 psi briefly (10 miles) without problem after a less than stellar use of Hutchinson Fast-air for a road repair. I typically ride mine in the 85-95 psi range.


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## Francis Cebedo (Aug 1, 2001)

goldsbar said:


> One more word of advice - don't go too low on the pressure. When at the gas station, I was afraid that I overinflated the tire so I let some air out. I squeezed the tire with my finger, the tire burped and all the air escaped in a couple of seconds. The Stan's forum (you can find my post there) claims they did testing of Ksyriums down to 80 PSI on bumpy roads with no problems. I'd stay at least 10 above that.


If you were able to squeeze air out with your finger, you did not have a good seal. I would not ride that at any pressure. Maybe a reinstall or some better tire seating was necessary.

The design of the this tubeless system is such that the tire bead should lock on to a compatible rim. It should be very hard to make it leak or to burp the tire.

On the mountain bike, we burp tires all the time at under 20 psi and using 'non ideal' rims and tires and the Stans system. On the road bike, burping during high speed cornering is not an option.

fc


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## rkb (Apr 4, 2007)

On my MTB tubeless tires you have to use a compressor to fill up the tire to about 65lbs to set the bead, a lot for a MTB tire. You'll know when you set it as the tire will pop into place with a loud report. 

290 grams for a tire is a little heavy when a Pro3 is 195 and a standard tube is about 78grams. So the upside is the lower pressure and w/Stan's juice the puncture resistance. 

As I already have the Ksyrium SLs, all I would need is the valves and tires. It might be worth a try for making the Mavics my winter wheels. Tubeless is the only way to go (IMO) in the MTB world, anyone who thinks otherwise is fooling themselves. Now, we will see if tubeless will have an impact on the road.


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## rkb (Apr 4, 2007)

francois said:


> If you were able to squeeze air out with your finger, you did not have a good seal. I would not ride that at any pressure.
> 
> The design of the this tubeless system is such that the tire bead should lock on to a compatible rim. It should be very hard to make it leak or to burp the tire.
> 
> ...


Yeah, that would be very scary. I have ran non-tubeless tires as tubeless at too low of pressure and burped them. That was on a technical trail at low speeds, no way on the road.


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## Francis Cebedo (Aug 1, 2001)

rkb said:


> 290 grams for a tire is a little heavy when a Pro3 is 195 and a standard tube is about 78grams. So the upside is the lower pressure and w/Stan's juice the puncture resistance.


That's what I thought! But who wants to run lower pressures if it's going to slow you down noticeably?

On the weight issue, here's an upside... if you're not going to pinch flat, and you're not going to puncture flat, maybe you can ditch that pump/tube/tools?

But now I think the real upside is ride quality and decreased rolling resistance. Now how do we measure that definitively?

I think my Ibike can measure rolling resistance (coast down bike calibration mode). I'll give that a try.

fc


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## goldsbar (Apr 24, 2002)

*Replying to a couple of posts...*

I'm not sure that the bead will ever really completely lock in on a Ksyrium but I'd like to hear everyone's experience. The Ksyrium is a non-approved rim. I've heard that you hear a distinguished locking sound with the Shimano wheels. That said, I might try to deflate/reflate mine and see if I can get a good lock. At the 95 PSI is run, the tire isn't going anywhere. I have around 150 miles on them (of course it's always that 151st mile that gets you!) and they're working great.

I wouldn't skip the pump or CO2 and tube. You're much less likely to get a flat but you can still tear a sidewall, etc.

The weight issue is truly negligible unless it's July 4th and you're racing to the top of l'alpe d'huez in the TDF. I'll take the anti-flat advantage versus an ounce or two any time I don't have a team car behind me (which is always). I've seen plenty of people flat out of races. Weight doesn't really matter at that point.


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## jnantnan (Aug 24, 2007)

francois said:


> That's what I thought! But who wants to run lower pressures if it's going to slow you down noticeably?
> 
> On the weight issue, here's an upside... if you're not going to pinch flat, and you're not going to puncture flat, maybe you can ditch that pump/tube/tools?
> 
> ...


Make sure you do new back-to-back coastdowns with the two wheelsets right after each other to get the most accurate data. And on the same road, same direction, etc...wind will effect rolling resistance calculations etc....just trying to help.


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## Francis Cebedo (Aug 1, 2001)

jnantnan said:


> Make sure you do new back-to-back coastdowns with the two wheelsets right after each other to get the most accurate data. And on the same road, same direction, etc...wind will effect rolling resistance calculations etc....just trying to help.


Yep definitely. Same riding position, etc. I'll also do different tire PSI's on each bike (80-90-100-110).

I should do one test on a smooth road and one on a rough road. Man, it gets complicated fast.

fc


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## ccfish81 (May 11, 2008)

Can I do this with my Kyserium Elites? Or just fancy schmancy SL's?


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## rkb (Apr 4, 2007)

Elites should be fine because they have the same rim design as the SLs. Go to the notubes.com website and order the valves. Install as shown and use the Hutchinson tubeless tire and you'll be in the same boat as me and my SLs. 

http://www.notubes.com/product_info.php/cPath/21_59/products_id/41


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## ccfish81 (May 11, 2008)

Oh this is the best news I have heard in a long time. I was still under the assumption I had to wait for the Dura-Ace trickle down effect. 

Thanks- Will report back on results.


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## jfitzem (Sep 1, 2004)

*Mavic K's & Hutch tubeless*

I've ridden on the tubeless tires for 3 full months now. Ride has been great. Zero flats.
Only issue has been when topping off the tires with air, a bit of stans leaks out on the valve stem and makes it difficult to unsrew the stem without removing the core. Every now and then you need to take a bit of brake cleaner (or other substance that can break down the Stan's) and clean the valve stems.


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## goldsbar (Apr 24, 2002)

ccfish81 said:


> Can I do this with my Kyserium Elites? Or just fancy schmancy SL's?


You can do this with just about any rim. Ksyrium's are the easist since they don't have spoke holes. Other rims require the extra step of wrapping the rim with tape to cover the holes.


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## Francis Cebedo (Aug 1, 2001)

goldsbar said:


> You can do this with just about any rim. Ksyrium's are the easist since they don't have spoke holes. Other rims require the extra step of wrapping the rim with tape to cover the holes.


I think you have to be very, very careful when trying the tubeless Hutchinsons with any/unknown rim. This was the claim in mountain biking too and some rims just don't inflate and some rim/tires just burp air during cornering or jumping.

If you burp air on a road bike, you might lose your teeth. The spoke holes is not the issue. The issue is the rim profile and how it matches with the tire bead. Also the fit of the tire to the rim diameter should be tight.

The Hutchinson tire bead mates with a compatible rim much like a zip loc bag seal. It's a good seal and it's hard to remove even when the tire is deflated.

So if it was me, I would ask other people exactly what their tubeless experience is with a non-tubeless compatible rim. And if not, I would examine the bead seal very carefully. When the tire is deflated, the bead should hold and should be difficult to remove.

fc


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## Dr_John (Oct 11, 2005)

Agree entirely with Francois. Although I don't have the mountain bike/tubeless experience, I would never even consider road tubeless with the Hutchinson tubeless tire without a complimentary rim to lock the tire's bead. The tire has to lock to the rim... or in my opinion, you're asking for trouble.

And since Stan's sealant has been mentioned a few times, I was told, or read somewhere, that you shouldn't use it with the Shimano wheels, as apparently it's too harsh for the rim material. Obviously the Hutchinson Fast-air is fine.


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## evil genius (Jul 31, 2007)

Is anyone running tubeless without sealant? On my MTB I have used Continental UST tubless tires without sealant on Mavic Crossmax SL rims with no problems.


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## Battlestar Galactica (Apr 7, 2008)

So for those of you who have tried the tubless system with stan's, how often are you getting flats? If so, after how many miles?


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## jfitzem (Sep 1, 2004)

I haven't had the first flat with the tubless tires, only have 1,500 miles so far.


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