# Who does carbon fiber better, Trek or Cervelo?



## the sky above tar below (Mar 31, 2004)

Hi. I just enjoyed travelingmike's review of his Cervelo R3 and am interested in the Cervelo brand. They have a road bike, the R3, that seems comparable to the new Madone. On roadbikereviews, the R3 has a very high rating. 

It seems that Cervelo is well-respected among road bike lovers. Can anyone compare the Cervelo R3 with the Madone?


----------



## z ken (Dec 30, 2006)

R3 is a great frame/bike, its brother R3 SL is even better ( so is the pricetage ) and SLC-SL is the combination of R3 SL and Soloist carbon in my understand and it's the best frame in term of lightness, aero and stiffness. i don't bother to read all the info at Competitve cylist until i decide to buy it.


----------



## I am The Edge (Jul 27, 2004)

the sky above said:


> Who does carbon fiber better, Trek or Cervelo?



will you be able to tell the difference?


----------



## z ken (Dec 30, 2006)

of course NOT since i've never test ridden Cervelo. i do like my Madone and one of reason i brought it in the first place. but Cervelo got of praises or hype from the " pros " and amateurs.


----------



## biker_boy (Sep 10, 2002)

Are Cervélo's R3's made by Cervélo? I think they're sourced outside the company. Now, this isn't a bad thing all the time, but it always makes me think twice. I've always admired Trek's tight integration of the engineering department and the production line -- they're in the same building, just through two sets of doors (I've been there, it's awesome). Sure, it might not have a lot of real-world impact on the bike's ride, but I like knowing that the engineers who designed a bike to be a certain way (aero, light, stiff, what have you ) are deeply involved in the production to ensure the ride quality they want.

I'd give my left nut for either bike, but if given the choice beforehand, I'd go for the Madone.


----------



## FondriestFan (May 19, 2005)

> R3 is a great frame/bike, its brother R3 SL is even better ( so is the pricetage ) and SLC-SL is the combination of R3 SL and Soloist carbon in my understand and it's the best frame in term of lightness, aero and stiffness.


Man, give Cervelo an A+ for marketing.


----------



## z ken (Dec 30, 2006)

yeah Cervelo marketing definitely get A+ and it always help that CSC riders keep winning left and right. only if lance would return to racing, that should make Trek # 1 again, both sale and tour wins. don't get me wrong, Trek will continue to do well both sale and wins but no longer a bully on the block.


----------



## travelingmike (May 22, 2007)

Lance with the TEAMS he puts together would win on any brand bike. My point is, try out the different bikes and read reviews from those of us that dont get our bikes for free. I dont follow pro bike racing so am unaware of how well the CSC riders are doing, like said, any great rider can be put on most any bike and win-some of the bikes will not be as easy and work with him or her as others will. My first bike I bought because of Lance and figured it must be a great bike, my second bike(cervelo R3) I bought after researching ,riding different brands, and reading reviews. It worked best for me. My trek is a great bike for some, but an OK bike for me- I have made it work and enjoyed many rides on it. It doesnt bring as big a smile to my face as the R3 does ,after a long climb.


----------



## the sky above tar below (Mar 31, 2004)

I am The Edge said:


> will you be able to tell the difference?


Why would I not be able to tell the difference?


----------



## mtbdcd (Jul 7, 2002)

To me buying a bike at this level should be based on which geometry fits you best, price, looks..... Which performs better, is probably not an answerable question.
I seem to remember Lance riding a Madone pretty fast and right beside him was Basso on a Cervelo.


----------



## travelingmike (May 22, 2007)

I just love my cervelo, just imagine how much more dominating lance and his team would have been........with a bike such as my cervelo R3? He probably would have been far ahead of Basso, if he was also riding a cervelo. This reminds me of....... what if Bo Jackson wouldnt have gotten his hip messed up?


----------



## z ken (Dec 30, 2006)

mike: lance won't ride cervelo. why?? b/c he didn't like slope top tube. he liked traditional geometry.


----------



## Dinosaur (Jan 29, 2004)

I don't like the sloped geometry. I test road a couple of c.f. bikes and I preferred the traditional geometry bikes. And the sloped tt bike was a Colnago. A lot has to do about fit and geometry. They say fit and geometry is more important that frame material...


----------



## travelingmike (May 22, 2007)

I am totally joking. I just like my R3. Its good for me. I have found alot of serious folks on this web site. I have also found some of my best rides are to work on my Jamis elite hybrid bike. Just for kicks it is fun to pass the roadies on the way to work with my saddle bags. I had one guy drafting and then we got to the stop light and he said he was just having a recovery ride. I only have a 10 mile ride to work, so as pathetic as I ride I can still get up to speed for short periods. Keep having fun riding any ride , on any bike, we are lucky to be able to .


----------



## z ken (Dec 30, 2006)

mike: well said about having fun riding bike regardless it's 10 K or Walmart's bikes, which i proudly owned. one of these day i'm going to test ride R3 and soloist carbon heard alot of great thing but never have a chance to. R3 SL and Cervelo SLC-SL would be heaven to test ride but so far haven't even seem them in person, yet.


----------



## uzziefly (Jul 15, 2006)

Both are just as good. Which is better? Half say Cervelo, and the others say trek.

Which is better for YOU? Now that is more important but no one knows save for yourself once you test em out.

See the fit, comfort level, etc etc and then decide. $$ plays a role too of course.


----------



## Guest (Jul 2, 2007)

the sky above said:


> Hi. I just enjoyed travelingmike's review of his Cervelo R3 and am interested in the Cervelo brand. They have a road bike, the R3, that seems comparable to the new Madone. On roadbikereviews, the R3 has a very high rating.
> 
> It seems that Cervelo is well-respected among road bike lovers. Can anyone compare the Cervelo R3 with the Madone?


Broaden your horizons.


----------



## CFBlue (Jun 28, 1999)

*Two Cents at Most!*

All I can afford. Many manufacturers make good if not extremely good frames. At the risk of having others say "oh yeah, here comes I Know A Guy rutine" here goes. My Brother-In-Law is an engineer who works day in and day out with carbon fiber. His company builds components for leading air and aerospace applcations. He spent two weeks in Waterloo looking at and learning from Trek. He has also been virtually all over the world looking at how others do it. He is just one person, but he says Trek has it down cold. In his words, the OCLV process is head and shoulders above the others. That is not to say one could not purchase another brand and have a lifetime of trouble-free use. (He also spent time with other frame builders) SOooooooooo, unless and until someone can prove the OCLV process lacking - they pretty much should just tend to their knitting. Having said all that, I probably would not hesitate too long in purchasing the top end frames from serveral other companies if the deal were that much better. "Best" is alway subjective.


----------



## the sky above tar below (Mar 31, 2004)

I feel that Trek makes the best carbon fiber frames in the world.


----------



## [email protected] (Jul 29, 2007)

*who is better than cervelo no one*



the sky above said:


> Hi. I just enjoyed travelingmike's review of his Cervelo R3 and am interested in the Cervelo brand. They have a road bike, the R3, that seems comparable to the new Madone. On roadbikereviews, the R3 has a very high rating.
> 
> It seems that Cervelo is well-respected among road bike lovers. Can anyone compare the Cervelo R3 with the Madone?


 i own a r3sl and a carbon soloist cervelos they are super fast each design for maximion strengh speed and stiffness -the r3sl is a800gm frame climbs like a goat on speed very very stiff and it just is a smooth bike to ride -i love it and soloist super aero light strong stiff get this up to speed and it stays there rolls perfectly and can be riden like a tri bike i ride this bike on a 1000klm ride no saddle sores ,, cervelo only make frames for the public so they are the same bikes csc team races on it won the tour of roubix and cervelo has won more time trials than anyone over the last year or so test ride you will love them plus trek is massed made were cervelo bikes are numbered and can by regested at the company ... happy rides be safe


----------



## [email protected] (Jul 29, 2007)

*r3 are made by cervelo and are not out soursed like most bikes including bike names*



biker_boy said:


> Are Cervélo's R3's made by Cervélo? I think they're sourced outside the company. Now, this isn't a bad thing all the time, but it always makes me think twice. I've always admired Trek's tight integration of the engineering department and the production line -- they're in the same building, just through two sets of doors (I've been there, it's awesome). Sure, it might not have a lot of real-world impact on the bike's ride, but I like knowing that the engineers who designed a bike to be a certain way (aero, light, stiff, what have you ) are deeply involved in the production to ensure the ride quality they want.
> 
> I'd give my left nut for either bike, but if given the choice beforehand, I'd go for the Madone.


 r3 are cervelo a leap ahead in engineering


----------



## shoerhino (Aug 13, 2004)

[email protected] said:


> cervelo has won more time trials than anyone over the last year or so


Actually, the people who ride cervelos won the time trials. The bike was the tool they used to do it. This fact by itself is seems a bit misleading because it could be that 50% of the time trial entrants ride cervelo and therefore you would expect them to "win" more. 

Would you buy a Trek because it's won 7 out of the last 10 Tour de Frances?

What makes the engineering of a Cervelo a leap ahead compared to Trek bicycles, or any other bicycle for that matter?


----------



## woogie11 (Jul 16, 2006)

Other than Cervelo who makes a 1.5 lb frame you can cycle cross?? 50% of all Tri events are won on a Cervelo P3, 16 other manufacturers make up the other 50%. I will agree the rider is the most important thing but, a nice bike sure helps a lot. I've ridden the new Madone's and Cervelo's and I think it's silly to even compare the two. The Madone isn't close to even comparing to the Madone in one way. That is however, my opinion. As with everything in road biking "road feel" and "comfort" are very individual and subjective terms and govern all or most preferences. I will only say that I believe Trek makes an inferior product due to the number of failings. I work at a shop and in the last three months four Madone's have come in broken. One I wasn't sure about as the frame had other damage, the other three however, broke in very odd ways. I know a race team sponsored by Lombardis' in SF who race in the master's program and are sponsored by Trek, they switched to Lemond Zurich's because they all broke their Madone's. You never hear about a broken Cervelo and I think that says a lot. Peace.


----------



## [email protected] (Jul 29, 2007)

*cervelo over trek*

hi -i a cervelo freak -the cervelo prices are good to buy a six 13 is over 10000 australian a soloist can be bought a lot less there just great value i love all good bikes custum titanium would be nice stork lovely bike i think it is up to a rider tofall in love with the bike they buy -it is the same with group sets . i use dura-ace some use campag then there is sram .all good but which one , i like the look of sram red mybe??? when a bike is bought it should be the best for the price buy and enjoy


----------



## plag (Apr 30, 2007)

Be different go with the Cervelo, Every other guy in town has a Trek.


----------



## [email protected] (Jul 29, 2007)

thank you .i own the only r3sl in australia when i bought mine waited 7 months wait well worth it


----------



## davidka (Dec 12, 2001)

For those of you that have seen or heard of a Trek carbon bike cracking or breaking, do consider how many of them are out there (see previous post). When there is a TON of bikes out there, it is easier to see or hear about one failing. Cannondale went through this at the height of their popularity but I heard from an ex-rep that during that time their failure rate was quite low relative to how many bikes were out there. Ditto with K2 and Rossignol skis in the 90's. I have never heard of a Cervelo failing because I have never ridden or raced with anyone who has one.


----------



## Rubber Lizard (May 10, 2007)

In case anyone cares, Cervelos are made in China, alongside Jamis, Bianchi, BH and Orbeas . They just design the bike, they do nothing in terms of manufacturing.


----------



## shoerhino (Aug 13, 2004)

Thanks for the comments. 

I still content that a person time trialling on a Cervelo will have similar results on a competing model given that the setup is similar between the bicycles. A nice bicycle helps, but at the high levels that many bicycles are made, all of them are pretty nice. How much more efficient or aerodynamic is a Cervelo than it's competitors?

It's a little misleading to say that 50% of all time trial events are won on a Cervelo, as the relevant data would be to know how many Cervelos were entered in the contest. For example, if 50% of the winners ride a cervelo and only 10% of time trialists use them, that would be great, but it 75% of people use them, wouldn't that indicate the opposite? Either way, it doesn't really say anything more than 2 out of the top 3 Tour de France riders use a Trek. 

I still don't quite understand what makes a Cervelo a well engineered bike compared to any other bike. Don't get me wrong, I don't think that the Cervelo's are bad - I think pretty much everything is about the same once you start talking a few thousand dollars.

As for broken Cervelo's, remember the recall? 
http://www.cervelo.com/R25recall/


----------



## shoerhino (Aug 13, 2004)

plag said:


> Be different go with the Cervelo, Every other guy in town has a Trek.


If you wanted to be different, you should decide for yourself what bike works for you regardless of the brand rather than either supporting or avoiding a specific brand based only on the name. There are many other factors to consider, such as warranty and LBS service.

And given that 50% of time trials are won on a Cervelo, how unique are they?


----------



## z ken (Dec 30, 2006)

as a Trek and Madone owner i have to stand up and say, " how come Levi and Contador beat ALL CSC riders at the 13th AND 19th stage of TDF?? " remember Fabian C. IS the current world TT champion so gotta give the edge to Trek. infact even big george and popo also rode inpressive TT. bravo to my Disco boyz!!


----------



## mtbdcd (Jul 7, 2002)

z ken said:


> as a Trek and Madone owner i have to stand up and say, " how come Levi and Contador beat ALL CSC riders at the 13th AND 19th stage of TDF?? " remember Fabian C. IS the current world TT champion so gotta give the edge to Trek. infact even big george and popo also rode inpressive TT. bravo to my Disco boyz!!


As a person that likes Trek i always hate to see this kind of success, my next bike always costs a lot..... more.


----------



## z ken (Dec 30, 2006)

yes with the success of team disco at this year's tour, Trek might " pump up " at their 08 Madone sale pricetage but can you blame them. after what we saw at the tour, Trek ( namely Contador ) might rule the Paris for many years to come.

P.S: i'm a big fan of Valverde and eventhough he dispointed me and many of his supporters but i'm glad he FINISHED the tour ( 7th overall ) b/c if he wants to win the tour and he got the talents he must first finished in Paris. next year he'll have a better plan how to finish stronger. Contador Vs. Valverde could be the next great rivals. disco will have Levi, George ( if he still around ), Popo and Tommy D?? while Valverde will have Carpets and Oscar Peireiro as their super-domestique )


----------



## shoerhino (Aug 13, 2004)

z ken said:


> as a Trek and Madone owner i have to stand up and say, " how come Levi and Contador beat ALL CSC riders at the 13th AND 19th stage of TDF?? " remember Fabian C. IS the current world TT champion so gotta give the edge to Trek. infact even big george and popo also rode inpressive TT. bravo to my Disco boyz!!


I know that I'm asking for it with this one but Z Ken, If you rode a bike other than a Trek that was setup exactly the same way, how much slower do you think you would be? Do you really think that the reason Trek did so well is their bicycles? If you think so, then I like to hear your thoughts on why Fabian wiped the floor with everyone in the first stage and why Discovery had a bad tour last year.


----------



## WhiskeyNovember (May 31, 2003)

shoerhino said:


> Do you really think that the reason Trek did so well is their bicycles?


Of course not, don't be silly. According to z ken's past posts, a rider's success is based solely upon his/her *wheel selection*.


----------



## z ken (Dec 30, 2006)

well i believe wheels is the most important parts of bike, right?? having a solid frame wouldn't hurt. that's why i ride Madone and Zipp 404 ( best of both world?? ) about Fabian C. winning the prologue, i think team disco didn't believe it's THAT important. disco didn't want to defend/wasting their energy in week one ( hmm is that " WHY " team CSC were struggling mightily come second week on?? Sastre/Schelck, where are you?? ) so i gave alot credits to Y.B for just riding " quitely " in week one and let teams like CSC and Q.S did the works. don't get wrong Cervelo made great bikes and i was actually consider buying SLC-SL but now i've to really think hard. why disco struggled in 06?? i think mainly Y.B belived Big George/Popo can win it ( well Y.B isn't god you know ) while disco were going through " somewhat of rebuilding " mode. now the future is real bright with AC as their star for many years to come. question is who'll sponsor my beloved AC-lead disco?? oh if only AC was an American. heheh

P.S: kind of dispointed at some of you " Trek owners " for not standing up when some " others " bike owners talked smack about Trek.


----------



## davidka (Dec 12, 2001)

Levi, Alberto, Popo and George did not win the prologue because Fabian Cancelara is a DEVASTATINGLY fast time trialist. He beat everyone by an ubsurd amount in the prologue he did at Tour of Switzerland. Believe me, everyone tried as hard as they could to win that prologue (you can always forfeit the jersey later) because it is super valuable publicity to win it. I am a Trek/Disco fan but I must give Cancelara his props. In a TT he is simply the man.

He did not win the later time trials because after a couple weeks of racing he was no longer the same man. This is a trait that makes a successful grand tour racer. Lance always won TT's by bigger margins later in the Tour. Levi and Cadel Evans also showed this in the second long TT this year.

BTW, if you want to see an unpaid Trek carbon advertisment, look for footage of Discovery riders cornering on their TTX's and compare those clips to just about anybody else on any other TT bike. There is no denying the obvious confidence that the Discovery boys have on their TT bikes in the corners. Lance's second TT in the 05' Tour is the best example of this.


----------



## dikai_yang (May 13, 2007)

Many would argue that those people who win, it's not about the bike, it's about the actual racers themselves. But, I disagree. Now we see most time-trial winners can win with any other TT bike, but they chose Cervelo. If the winner thinks it's good, that's good enough for me. So, Cervelo for TT, no question about it.

TdF wins are a bit different though, because these riders who happen to win, they kinda had to ride the bikes sponsored. But if they like it, I like it. So Trek for TdF, no an absolute solution, but it's pretty good.

But I still like Trek better though. What Trek says has merit that they employ more carbon specialists/engineers than some other companies do employees. Although Cervelo is not bad, but the company size is just too small. According to Vroom (duno spelling), they just want to make enough money to "feed" their employees. One smart person against 10 smart persons working on the same problem, we know who's the winner.


----------



## FondriestFan (May 19, 2005)

The Cervelo doesn't work for everyone. Body type makes a big difference. You have to look at the angles of the bike and whether they fit your body style. The Cervelo is unquestionably aero and would benefit anyone who can put down the power in that position.

Some people, when placed in that position, cannot exert the same power and do better on a frame that's not so aggressive. You can't just say "Trek is better" or "Cervelo is the best". It's up to the individual.

Take a look at http://www.bikesportmichigan.com for better details. I'm not affiliated with them in any way. Their specialty is triathlon/tt.


----------



## dikai_yang (May 13, 2007)

Hmm...

Of course, we need a right size to start... Then:

1. Height compensated by saddle height
2. Seat tube angle compensated by saddle fore/aft adjustment
3. Top tube compensated by stem

So really, it's about the fitting, not the bike geometry. But of course TT bike has a predetermined geometry. It differs from manufacturer to manufaturer, but the genereal TT geometry is there. So again, it's only about the fitting.


----------



## z ken (Dec 30, 2006)

today i went to Cupertino bike shop here in bay area. bang !! here's it hanging on the wall: Cervelo SLC-SL ( shining black with white decals ) i kindly and eagerly asked the saleman about the frame ( i actually known this person since i bought my 404 there ) carefully i slowedly lift the frame: HOLY CRAP!! that thing was hell of light. i even asked him to put on the digital scale. 2 lbs. exactly ( 1008 grams for size 54 ) then i saw the pricetage i slowly and sadly return the frame to him [ sob ] next i tried R3-SL ( the lightest frame i've ever felt. perhap too light?? ) why i'm telling you this?? i'll buy CSL-SL this winter. just in time for Christmas and my birthday ( new year's day )?? of course i'm still the biggest fan of Trek and disco but something tell me about SLC-SL. simple breath-taking beauty and heavenly-light.


----------



## dikai_yang (May 13, 2007)

z_ken... excellent choice... one Trek + one Cervelo, you get the best of both worlds!


----------



## z ken (Dec 30, 2006)

yup i WAS also considering Colnago EC and Pinarello Prince carbon but i never like Colnago's " candy colors " while Prince carbon would looks great with my 404 but i've to wait til may be next year to get them. meanwhile time to save up for my SLC-SL. i guess no more trips to departments stores. oh i'm going to miss Walmart and Targets. hahah

UPDATE: i just bought FSA Plasma from competitve cyclist for $ 408 ( after shiping ) they've a great sale going on right now. i believe that Plasma is better looking than Cinelli's Ram. whew!! i'm so excited!! this might be the last thing i buy for bike until my SLC-SL.


----------



## uzziefly (Jul 15, 2006)

I want a TTX frame come the end of the year. I hope... In Disco blue. Or all black maybe.

Then I'll build it up over the next year.


----------



## z ken (Dec 30, 2006)

uzzifly: going TT?? i've never ridden TT before and was wondering is it less confortable than riding road bike since you've to get in the aero position?? most of my riding position is on the hood and only on the drop when descending.


----------



## estone2 (Sep 25, 2005)

z ken said:


> today i went to Cupertino bike shop here in bay area. bang !! here's it hanging on the wall: Cervelo SLC-SL ( shining black with white decals ) i kindly and eagerly asked the saleman about the frame ( i actually known this person since i bought my 404 there ) carefully i slowedly lift the frame: HOLY CRAP!! that thing was hell of light. i even asked him to put on the digital scale. 2 lbs. exactly ( 1008 grams for size 54 ) then i saw the pricetage i slowly and sadly return the frame to him [ sob ] next i tried R3-SL ( the lightest frame i've ever felt. perhap too light?? ) why i'm telling you this?? i'll buy CSL-SL this winter. just in time for Christmas and my birthday ( new year's day )?? of course i'm still the biggest fan of Trek and disco but something tell me about SLC-SL. simple breath-taking beauty and heavenly-light.


be careful, there's a such thing as too light.

my coach just found a crack through his right seatstay on his R3.

Do the pinch test on the seatstays. Put your index finger on the outside of the chainstay near the crankset, and your thumb on the inside of the chainstay. Squeeze. On the R3, at least, you feel the carbon bend inwards. That's scary thin.

I love the R3, it rides great, is stiff, light, fast, etc. But that chainstay thinness is enough to stop me dead. It's just not strong enough to go through a lot of crashes, or apparently a lot of riding as my coach did.

I think the R3, and many of these sub 900g frames, whether cervelo or not, are just too light. I personally don't want to go under 1000g on carbon fiber.

-estone2


----------



## 321payne (Oct 1, 2006)

estone2 said:


> be careful, there's a such thing as too light.
> 
> my coach just found a crack through his right seatstay on his R3.
> 
> ...


I know a guy that has broken 2 SLC SL's in 2 mounths.Aftrer the second one he decide it would be safer to go back to his original solist carbon frame.


----------



## dikai_yang (May 13, 2007)

321payne said:


> I know a guy that has broken 2 SLC SL's in 2 mounths.Aftrer the second one he decide it would be safer to go back to his original solist carbon frame.


Wow... that's nearly $10k CAD in 2 months... the guy is rich!!


----------



## 321payne (Oct 1, 2006)

dikai_yang said:


> Wow... that's nearly $10k CAD in 2 months... the guy is rich!!


cervelo warantied them


----------



## z ken (Dec 30, 2006)

alright. that mean FOR SURE i'm getting my SLC-SL. oh Christmas, please come early this year. ticking ticking...


----------



## uzziefly (Jul 15, 2006)

z ken said:


> uzzifly: going TT?? i've never ridden TT before and was wondering is it less confortable than riding road bike since you've to get in the aero position?? most of my riding position is on the hood and only on the drop when descending.


Well I never had a TT bike before but the aero position can actually be comfortable if you want it to. There's the balance between optimum positioning for aerodynamics and performance and comfort as well. So you can tune it around and see what works best for you. 

If I do get the frame (big IF) , I'll make sure it's comfy enough for me to wanna ride it at least. Thing is, I don't ride TTs so I'm trying to see what's the use of getting the frame other than for hard workouts that I can already use my road bike for. Also, I think it would probably be better off for me to get a set of wheels instead. Oh well, we'll see.


----------



## z ken (Dec 30, 2006)

don't your LBS offer a TT bike rental for a weekend?? i know trizilla.com offer such deal. once of these day i'll give a TT bike a try and i expect it to be, err exciting and hopfully i won't crash or fall down when turning b/c i saw alot of " unpleasant " highlights from past TDF. 05 tour was rough for David Z and Rasmussen.


----------



## scottyperkins (Jun 18, 2007)

mtbdcd said:


> As a person that likes Trek i always hate to see this kind of success, my next bike always costs a lot..... more.


Seen the new top-end Madone and Equinox yet? Over $8K for both on Trek's relaunced site. Yikes! They're suuure purty, though.


----------



## mtbdcd (Jul 7, 2002)

Yes i saw the new site a few days ago. I know one thing, the CPI does not apply to bikes! 
It seems like the bike manufacturers are in a race to see who can sell the most expensive bike. I bet Robin Williams will have one.


----------

