# Foot ache post cleat move & Sidi size redux



## MaxKatt (May 30, 2015)

Thoughts appreciated.

Wore Sidi size 47 mega (Genius 5 or something) for both road and MTB for 10 years. Same shoes...one pair for road, one pair for MTB. Comfortable, loved them, but they were synched in all the way and always felt they were still a little loose.

Decided to update both (even though really they were functional and fine after a decade of use). After sizing, it appeared it made sense to drop just 1/2 size to 46.5 _regular_ (no mega). 

New Sidi MTB's still feel great (Sidi Dominator)

New Road shoes felt great out of the box in the Spring (Sidi Wire w/double BOA lacing no straps which was something I was interested in). Loved them. Felt happy with the size redux. I ride 90% road, 10% MTB

Had a custom fitting a couple months ago, and fitter moved the cleat a bit (back I believe) to maximize power. No question fitter is super qualified at this...almost all they do. All the other tweaks he made seem to be working and feeling right.

Immediately it felt as though I was suddenly in shoes too narrow across the area where the toes come into the foot. I called the shop, and he said he could move the cleats back but I would be sacrificing power giving up the optimal positioning. Didn't like that.

I decided to tough it out, thinking my feet might just need time to adjust to a new cleat position after 10 years. Work around I developed that sort of works is to barely tighten the boa's on the shoes at all. Made them livable.

Still...they ached a bit riding (numbed with Alleve for longer mileage), but worse...both feet now have a fairly continual dull ache across the area behind the toes where they meet the foot on the sole of my foot. Almost roughly right below where that new cleat position is.

Will this ever dissipate? I note the MTB shoes the tech didn't touch are still comfortable...but to be fair I don't ride them a lot. 

Trying to decide if it's a seasonal accumulation of miles in the wrong (redux) shoe size...or a direct result of a cleat replacement that's just not working. 

My feeling is it's the cleat relocation since the discomfort was _right after_ the custom fitting and cleat move. We also made adjustments to seat and stem if it matters.

Probably had 1,200 miles (including a couple centuries) comfortable with no issues on the new shoes before the fitting. Have 3 centuries and probably 800 total miles in this new "discomfort" state now.

Thinking I should sacrifice some "perfection" in power to recover my comfort. Unless someone tells me my foot will strengthen and adjust and the shoe will adjust. 

Thoughts appreciated.


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## PBL450 (Apr 12, 2014)

MaxKatt said:


> Thoughts appreciated.
> 
> Wore Sidi size 47 mega (Genius 5 or something) for both road and MTB for 10 years. Same shoes...one pair for road, one pair for MTB. Comfortable, loved them, but they were synched in all the way and always felt they were still a little loose.
> 
> ...


Sounds like you will just damage your feet eventually. Any deformities starting up? Bumps? I wonder why the bike-fit if everything was working for years and lots of miles, but I can't imagine a cleat adjustment having a segnificant effect on your power? Even if has a small effect, riding in comfort and out of pain should have a bigger effect? I'm sure people who know better will jump in but I'd have the cleat back where it didn't hurt right away.


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## wim (Feb 28, 2005)

PBL450 said:


> Sounds like you will just damage your feet eventually


Agree. Move the cleat back to where it was. With the new cleat placement, you're putting excessive pressure on a nerve. A fitter can't know this at the time of the fitting.

"Maximizing power" by moving cleats doesn't make much sense. Power when, how and for how long? Given that the fitter is "super qualified," there has to be more to this. Perhaps he was just not in the mood to explain in detail what happens when you move cleats fore or aft.


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## MaxKatt (May 30, 2015)

Thanks guys. 

Definitely moving it back. I haven't ridden in a week and my feet shouldn't be feeling like this. 

Took the Fat Bike out for a few miles today, and granted they are Sidi Dominators, but the same 46.5 regular felt fine. Has to be the cleat. I guess I'm struggling to understand how such a minor cleat shift could have such a large impact, but it must.

Regarding the late stage fitting. Just got a couple new bikes. Never ever had a real fitting before. Went to a seminar a few different shops were speaking at with regard to fit. Decided to see what pursuing perfect fit might do. Other than the feet, it seems to be a win. Picked up speed, otherwise more comfortable...just the dame foot problem.


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## ghettocop (Apr 19, 2014)

Sounds like a horrible time man, I really empathize, as I am super sensitive to shoe fit, and cleat placement, so I know how dreadful painful or numb feet can be. I spend a good deal of money ensuring that I wear the same high quality shoes that work for me on both road and mountain. ( Gaerne Stilo's, and Sincro's). In your case, the Wire's you are wearing while a fantastic shoe, are vastly different in construction and shape to the Genius and the Dominator. Might not be a perfect fit for you, or there is something different that is bothering your foot shoe-wise.


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## MaxKatt (May 30, 2015)

ghettocop said:


> Sounds like a horrible time man, I really empathize, as I am super sensitive to shoe fit, and cleat placement, so I know how dreadful painful or numb feet can be. I spend a good deal of money ensuring that I wear the same high quality shoes that work for me on both road and mountain. ( Gaerne Stilo's, and Sincro's). In your case, the Wire's you are wearing while a fantastic shoe, are vastly different in construction and shape to the Genius and the Dominator. Might not be a perfect fit for you, or there is something different that is bothering your foot shoe-wise.



Interesting on the shape difference. I somehow thought any size in any Sidi would be the same. 

I still think it's the cleat. Although they were 10 years old, I donated my old ones to Salvation Army because I loved them, they still were functional, and I couldn't bring myself to call them trash. I would have held on to them, but after a bunch of rides the new ones felt great.

I'm hoping it's just the cleat move. Going to try to go back to original position tomorrow and see what happens.


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## Lombard (May 8, 2014)

I'm trying to figure out how moving the cleats backward can make your shoes feel narrower. Am I missing something?

Same shoes, but newer update may have sizing differences. I have noticed this. And keep in mind most people's feet change shape and get a little larger throughout life. Your old shoes may have been so well worn that they took on their own shape and fit like a.....um......a nice comfy worn pair of shoes.


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## MaxKatt (May 30, 2015)

Lombard said:


> I'm trying to figure out how moving the cleats backward can make your shoes feel narrower. Am I missing something?
> 
> Same shoes, but newer update may have sizing differences. I have noticed this. And keep in mind most people's feet change shape and get a little larger throughout life. Your old shoes may have been so well worn that they took on their own shape and fit like a.....um......a nice comfy worn pair of shoes.



Damn. I so wish I hadn't gotten rid of the old shoes.

But you hit what I was looking for input on here...was it the cleat move, or cumulative miles in new shoes. As mentioned, I had 1,000 or so fine and the discomfort started only after the cleat move. 

I agree...the shoe shouldn't change on cleat move. I assume it had something to do with where that pressure drives into the foot on the downstroke once that connection point has been altered.


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## Lombard (May 8, 2014)

MaxKatt said:


> Damn. I so wish I hadn't gotten rid of the old shoes.
> 
> But you hit what I was looking for input on here...was it the cleat move, or cumulative miles in new shoes. As mentioned, I had 1,000 or so fine and the discomfort started only after the cleat move.
> 
> I agree...the shoe shouldn't change on cleat move. I assume it had something to do with where that pressure drives into the foot on the downstroke once that connection point has been altered.




OK then, understood.


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## 9W9W (Apr 5, 2012)

Lombard said:


> OK then, understood.


I would imagine with the cleat further forward you are concentrating the force of your stroke on the ball of your feet and the wider portion of the shoe/toebox. With the cleat further back you may be putting more force on the narrower arch portion?

I had a bike fitting from a highly recommended pro fitter. He blew the cleat placement and my kneecaps felt like someone was scooping flesh off bone from the inside...after each ride. We're talking beer and Tylenol just to dull the pain. Turns out that he incorrectly placed the cleats too far forward, just by a tiny bit. I dialed them back slightly, knees calmed down instantly and I was able to fully enjoy the benefits of the otherwise stellar fitting. Cleat positioning is tough to nail down. He's down there feeling for bumps, asking you where the axis lies...etc... but it's not the easiest measurement to get right.


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