# Carbon TT frames on Ebay



## Spudgun74 (Jan 14, 2009)

Hi,. Has anyone purchased any of these TT frames?

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT&item=270329779974

There are a few from different sellers on EBay, one under 'Hasa' naming as well. 

Prices range $600 - $1000, no branding, but not an issue for me. Feedback for this seller seems good, with all purchasers of Road Frames being happy. But can't find any TT buyers. I have read other feeds regarding the Road Frames and some people have had issues.

Thinking of pulling the trigger, but just wondering if anyone else has done so? Apologies for the Ebay user name in the pic, not trying to drum up business for the guy!

Thanks.


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## stevesbike (Jun 3, 2002)

look here:

http://www.tritalk.co.uk/forums/viewtopic.php?t=52646


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## Spudgun74 (Jan 14, 2009)

*Cheers*

Thanks, 

To my eye, that is exactly the same frame. The Kurve guy must be sourcing these and applying his own badging. 

I think if you get away from the 'Made in Taiwan' stigma, then it seems to tick most of the boxes.


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## stevesbike (Jun 3, 2002)

yes, he says it's the same frame (the first post mentions the ebay deal). Since just about all carbon frames are sourced from Asia, there's nothing wrong with where it's made - the only drawback is warranty support etc. Just make sure the seat post dimensions work OK since it's integrated (you'll most likely have to take it to a shop to get it cut). An integrated post makes traveling a bit more complicated, but in this size it would still fit in most bike cases etc. 

It looks like a nice TT frame - pretty standard geometry, internal cable routing etc. and the price is right...


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## RSPDiver (Jun 3, 2006)

Nice find, stevesbike!

And if people have a negative stigma about buying a "made in Taiwan" frame (or another Asian mass production location), then their choices are EXTREMELY limited. I guess the factory could make 2000 namebrand frames or those plus 5000 no-name frames, from the same molds, and sell at probably similar prices. Hmmmm, tough choice for them... ;-)
(my opinion, anyway, and production numbers are for example only)


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## Spudgun74 (Jan 14, 2009)

As long as the quality is ok, place of manufacture should be irrelevant. If anything, given the amount of carbon products coming out of countries like Taiwan, they should be very experienced with their builds.

'Dressing' the nude frame up with well known brand names just helps us feel better about spending more. After years of consumerism brain-washing, we automatically relate higher prices to better products. NOT always the case!

If you're willing to buy a nude frame, I guess you have a lot of options. Leave it be, personalize it. Like the guy who did the 'Dark Star' build.

http://forums.roadbikereview.com/showthread.php?t=154621&highlight=darkstar

I think if I was cycling with him, I would be more intrigued and want to know more about his bike, than cycling with someone on a stock-standard build.

Well, I'm going on now. Maybe I'm trying to sell myself. I have been through the sellers feedback and there have been no other purchasers of the TT frame in the last 90 days. All the purchasers who have brought road frames from this seller have left positive feedback about the frames.

I guess someone's got to bite the bullet and get one. The guy who has decorated the 'Kurve' frame shows what is possible if you put in some effort. 

Well, if I go ahead with this I will keep you posted.


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## charlieboy (Sep 10, 2003)

*rear der hanger*

they look ok but check whether you get the rear derailleur hanger - which is on one tt bike he has up for sale but not shown on another


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## wim (Feb 28, 2005)

*A thought.*

Perhaps stating the obvious, but the sizing info appears a bit odd. The 54 top tube sort of fits a 'medium,' but the 49 c-to-c seat tube on a frame that appears to have a horizontal top tube would make this a 'small' or 'very small.' Then again, we don't know how exactly how the c-to-c was measured, and the photo may show the top tube as horizontal when in fact it is not.


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## stevesbike (Jun 3, 2002)

because of the short headtube on TT bikes, the c-c size is often misleading (cervelo says on their website: "our TT/tri bikes have a dropped toptube and shortened headtube to enable the rider to position the aerobars low enough for a proper aero position. This means that the frame size is no longer equivalent to the seattube length,"). The TT length is usually the dimension to shoot for. Because of the integrated seatpost, I'd do some checking into the 790mm c-top of post dimension - I'd want to make sure whether this is top of seatpost with or without the clamp etc.


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## Spudgun74 (Jan 14, 2009)

I did contact the seller in regards to the derailleur hanger and got a reply saying that it does come with one. I was left a little uneasy however, as parts of my question were 'copy/pasted' into the reply. I understand that english may be an issue, but I still hope they understand what I'm asking.

Sizing-wise, I have compared it with my current set up, which is fairly compact and it works for me. But I will be able to tell you more shortly as I purchased the frame.

Good or Bad, I'll be able to give the complete lowdown on these frames.


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## brblue (Jan 28, 2003)

stevesbike said:


> because of the short headtube on TT bikes, the c-c size is often misleading (cervelo says on their website: "our TT/tri bikes have a dropped toptube and shortened headtube to enable the rider to position the aerobars low enough for a proper aero position. This means that the frame size is no longer equivalent to the seattube length,"). The TT length is usually the dimension to shoot for. Because of the integrated seatpost, I'd do some checking into the 790mm c-top of post dimension - I'd want to make sure whether this is top of seatpost with or without the clamp etc.


A 790 seattube, even center to top of clamp, for an about 50 cm c-t tall, non sloping frame, would make a huge saddle - to - bar drop. I think that someone needing anything close to 790 mm seattube would necessitate an unsafe amount of spacers underneath the rise-type stem to ride comfortably.. all my respect for those who wouldn't


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## Spudgun74 (Jan 14, 2009)

Just to clarify....

Where is this 790mm measurement coming from? The frames I'm looking at have a C-T of 750mm which I think is on the money. 

I do agree with the statements about the 790mm, this would be an awkward set-up. One could only assume the post would be cut? But if there is anyone who could ride that setup with limited risers, they would certainly have an interesting angle of attack into the wind.


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## raymonda (Jan 31, 2007)

It's a lot of frame for a lttle $


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## Spudgun74 (Jan 14, 2009)

Well, whilst awaiting the arrival of the frame. I have continued to browse around and it becomes fairly obvious that these frames are in wide use.

If you look at the ones on EBay, there are some variances, such as headtube nose, rear wheel cutout and seatpost integrated / not. But there are heaps of companies using these frames. I'm not talking about your big-name brands.

But what I see is many bike 'builders', buying these frames in bulk, which drops at least 20% off the price, probably something more like 30 - 40% depending on volume. I would assume the frames then go through a quality control and structural check before a company would want to put their name on it.

Then the frames are 'finished'. So, to my mind this would include some minor alterations. Such as better quality cable stays, drop outs , etc. Then it's decorated and branded.

I have attached an example for everyone. 

I have not looked at the road frames, but I'm sure there would be a similar pattern of usage as well. 

My point, I guess, is that from my point of view these 'blank' frames on EBay represent a chance for people to get good carbon frames at a great price. I think if you're considering buying one of these frames, then you accept the fact that the frame my need some tweaking. But as long as the structural elements are there, you've got yourself a great little project.

What's more, when I'm cycling with other guys on their Giant, Cervelo, Specialized etc, it's going to be the guy on the 'custom' build who's going to draw more attention. I know if I saw a rack of bikes with the 'Kurve' build and a P3C, I'm going to be more interested in the Kurve. I think it's psychologically beneficial being the unknown quantity.

Just have to make sure you 'decorate' your frame professionally! 

Anyway, I'll keep you guys in the loop, with pics of build, etc, blah blah blah.


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## simplyhankk (Jan 30, 2008)

looks pretty darn good bike. the front wheel cut-out on the down tube looks really good...plenty aero, etc. 

nothing is wrong with stuff made in taiwan. we are all surrounded by stuff made in other countries..in fact the screen you are looking at right now is probably made in taiwan, the mouse, keypad, etc. they are experienced with that they do and most of us know that they are good at it. many well-known brands are often times produced out of one same factory...just different molds. different countries offer different skills and products, etc. 

what would you consider to be a "professionally decorated" nude frame? leaving it nude? stickers? just curious. I think some witty bumper stickers might be even more fun.


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## Spudgun74 (Jan 14, 2009)

Yes, the whole 'decorating' thing is a broad subject. Nude? Stickers? Paint? 

What's "professionally decorated"? Well, I guess that's a matter of taste. I guess once I get the frame in my hands I can figure out what I want to do with it more clearly.

I did see these stickers on EBay that made me laugh, particularly the 'kick your face in' one.


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## monocognizant (Sep 12, 2008)

I've been watching these frames for a while but, I've always been leary about items located in Hong Kong. I'd really love to hear how you make out as I am in the market for a budget frame.


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## Spudgun74 (Jan 14, 2009)

*Finally.....*

Okay everyone.

Time to update you on what’s happening. My Frame finally arrived today…… very long time to receive! I wasn’t a happy camper during this period and had a bit or correspondence with the seller. To be fair, it was an issue with the post office in China. Buying anything during Chinese New Year can be prone to delays it seems. Once the frame was finally on it’s way it only took 5 days, but it was nearly 4 weeks since payment. 

To defend the seller also, they were very prompt with emails and although their ‘english’ wasn’t the best, I felt okay with the communication. Emails were replied to within 6-12hrs.

Anyway, the frame was well wrapped and protected for shipping. Although not in a box as I would have expected, there was a lot of bubble wrap and cardboard and I was sufficiently happy with the wrapping.

I knew there might be issues with the frame, but as long as it was structurally sound I didn’t mind doing a bit of work on it. The frame is exactly as the pics on Ebay show and I have measured it and everything corresponds to the sellers’ description of sizing and weight. If anyone would like anything in particular measured please let me know.

The Frame…..

The frame is very well made. The 12k weave shows very clearly through the clear coat and looks great. Inside the headtube the inner material is clearly a 3k weave, but from my own investigations the mixing of different grade weaves is normal and helps add stiffness in certain areas. The area around the BB is nicely oversized and I would assume there is little flex as a result. The clear coat is essentially flawless, I have found a few scuffs under the BB area, but this will never be seen anyway. The internal cable guides are a little rough, they are brushed aluminium or similar and whilst functional, I would have preferred Stainless or something with a better finish. Purely a personal quirk. 

The front derailleur hanger is fairly cheap and of not good quality, but as it is a bolt on, it is easily replaceable. The rear hanger is good, no need to change this one really, but it is also a bolt-on and removable also. The cable routing for the front derailleur was a mystery for me until I got the frame. There is internal routing via a hole at the rear of the BB, exiting just under the front hanger. The exiting hole is a little rough and will probably do with some sort of cosmetic touch-up. But it is inside the chainrings and not something easily seen, just me being fussy. The seatpost clamp appears to be all 12k carbon, it feels a bit heavy, but this is all the cheap metallic bits. This is easily swappable though. The faces of the BB are a little rough, I think a little touch with some very fine sandpaper will resolve it very easily
The forks are great, no issues at all. The steerer is 3k, with the exterior being 12k on the actual legs. Nothing to really say about these…. Perfect.



I did put on a wheelset to make sure the alignment and spacing’s where correct. No issues to report, with everything nicely centred. 

All in all, I’m very happy with the Frameset. For $US600, it’s great value for money. The areas that I thought may have issues are easily fixed and/or replaceable. But really, you could build it up straight from the box with no issues. If anyone has any specific questions please ask, or if anyone wants any photos of anything in particular let me know. 

I’ll post more pics once I have built it up.


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## simplyhankk (Jan 30, 2008)

looks great mate, congrats. hope it rides as well as it looks.


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## mimason (Oct 7, 2006)

Are you going to trust the fork?


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## Spudgun74 (Jan 14, 2009)

Well, from a very thorough inspection, there is nothing to lead me to feel insecure. Steerer has no flaws, internally and externally and walls are of even thickness. Legs are very solid and I would not doubt these at all. Only real area of concern would be joint between legs and steerer tube. But there is absolutely nothing to raise any concerns. 

They do feel stiffer than my current carbon forks on my Giant and at 450gms they are not exactly very light. If anything, these forks are heavier than the 'road' versions that they sell and that would leave me to believe they are stronger. 

So, yes, I do trust these forks.


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## cpark (Oct 13, 2004)

Spudgun74 said:


> Well, from a very thorough inspection, there is nothing to lead me to feel insecure. Steerer has no flaws, internally and externally and walls are of even thickness. Legs are very solid and I would not doubt these at all. Only real area of concern would be joint between legs and steerer tube. But there is absolutely nothing to raise any concerns.
> 
> They do feel stiffer than my current carbon forks on my Giant and at 450gms they are not exactly very light. If anything, these forks are heavier than the 'road' versions that they sell and that would leave me to believe they are stronger.
> 
> So, yes, I do trust these forks.


Nice looking ride!
Let us know how it rides.


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## mtaylor495 (Dec 8, 2004)

*Carbon Frame*

What size did you get. I only see 54 listed. I need a 56 which isn't available at this time based on the email response I got. 

BTW. This same frame is marketed by Louis Garneau frame, fork, seatpost for $1,200.00. Do a search in EBAY. It will come up.


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## Spudgun74 (Jan 14, 2009)

Yes, I got the 54. The seller I got this from appears to only have the one size. There is another seller who has stated they will add other sizes, but I have seen nothing so far.

This 54 sizing is top tube c-c, the bb to top of toptube measurement is 49.5cm. So, this will be a fairly compact set-up. I will need to trim the seattube slightly to fit this frame. I'm 6' but this frame will work for me. I'm used to the compact Giant frames and have come to prefer the low toptube. This frame also has a far smaller headtube than my Giant which I like, as I prefer to be very low on the front.

Yes, the more you look around, the more you see these Carbon frames on EBay being used by larger brands. As I have stated earlier, I think these frames are great value for money. 

If you're about the same size/proportions as me, I can let you know how it rides once I have it built.


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## Spudgun74 (Jan 14, 2009)

*Build Completed*

Well, I finally got around to putting it all together. To say I'm happy with the completed project is a huge understatement! 

I'll give a report of ride quality once I've had more time on it and post more pics of the build.

In the meantime, I am one happy guy!!


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## simplyhankk (Jan 30, 2008)

looks nice! how/where did you get the decals?


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## Spudgun74 (Jan 14, 2009)

Decals are pretty easy. I browsed for different fonts from free download sites. Then took a pic of the frame and played around in excel with differing font colors and layouts until I found what I liked.
I took the frame to a signwriter (ie, someone who can do computer cut lettering for vehicle graphics) Gave them the font and images of what I wanted and they did everything else.

Cost for decals and application was $40US roughly. The pin-striping I did myself. Just brought some pin-striping vinyl off EBay for $8US I think.

Before I received the frame I actually had the notion I would paint it. But once I saw the 12k weave and the great finish.. I just couldn't bring myself to cover it up 

Came out very well, certainly gets lots of looks!


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## Applesauce (Aug 4, 2007)

Spudgun74 said:


> Decals are pretty easy. I browsed for different fonts from free download sites. Then took a pic of the frame and played around in excel with differing font colors and layouts until I found what I liked.
> I took the frame to a signwriter (ie, someone who can do computer cut lettering for vehicle graphics) Gave them the font and images of what I wanted and they did everything else.
> 
> Cost for decals and application was $40US roughly. The pin-striping I did myself. Just brought some pin-striping vinyl off EBay for $8US I think.
> ...


Pretty neat project. It's sort of amazing, with this whole carbon thing, how one can just buy fell-off-the-truck, or even legitimately liquidated frames that are the same as X or Y brand... I'm holding out for a cheapie CX frameset.

Having said that, I think the part that's generally more interesting to me is the blackness: eye of the beholder and whatnot, but I'd get rid of those decals in an eyeblink! Especially held up next to the none-too-subtle Spinergy graphics... I can't see the pinstriping for the "Karbon" what-have-you, but I think it would probably look better just nicely pinstriped. (Also, what's the "Custom Built" thing? That word gets bandied around a little too much...but I guess that's just another purely subjective judgment. Is anything that you put your own wheels on "Custom Built," even if it sits at the PO in China for four weeks?)

Also, is that BB shell all aluminum, or is it just a trick of the light? I guess it's a little bit of built-in redundancy: if it ever strips, you could ream it out to French, and if you ever strip that, you could ream it out to BMX.

Anyway, cool bike. Enjoy!


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## oldmanbreezer (Aug 27, 2006)

Spudgun:

Did you trim the seatpost? and if so............... how easy was it to do?

Have trimmed carbon MTB handlebars in the past but not sure about tackling a seatpost/mast



BTW: With those decals your frame certainly has the "WOW!" effect.


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## cpark (Oct 13, 2004)

It has been 2 full days since you finished the project. 
Well, how does it ride?


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## -dustin (Jan 11, 2009)

damn...that is some legit bar drop. 

one of these came into the shop recently. just a simple Martec frame. nothing to worry about as far as quality is concerned.


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## Spudgun74 (Jan 14, 2009)

Okay... it ended up being a 'trial by fire' , with my first real use of the bike being a sprint distance tri on Sunday.

The bike is seriously fast! I had an Olympic distance race 2 weeks ago on my Giant and let's just say I was passing people last Sunday that were faster than me 2 weeks ago.

Obviously the frame is not hugely 'aero'.... but it does feel better. I ride a fairly aggressive position as you tell from the pics and it's comfortable for me. I think most riders would have the front end higher than me. But to each their own...

The main benefit seems to be geometry, with a nice steep seat tube and low head tube. I can get very low and forward on the cranks. Whilst I can't compare these two races I had to evaluate the increase in speed ( vastly differing courses ) , I would estimate about 2-3kph increase in speed. I have a 40km time trial course I do and I will be able to do an approximate comparison soon.

As for the carbon frame providing a softer ride, it's hard for me to comment. The Spinergy PBO's take out the majority of 'road-noise' and I purchased them primarily for this reason.

Whilst 'tuning' the bike pre-race, I did take it up some small climbs. The frame is very responsive and I didn't feel any flex at all. Each surge on the cranks just seemed to translate into forward momentum and I'll throw some steep-nasty stuff at it soon to see how it climbs over extended periods.

No balance issues and the bike tracks in a straight line with no hands. No issues on the small descents I done thus far as well. 

Since I took the pics of the completed build, I have cut 1.5cm off the seatpost and moved the saddle forward. For the viewer who asked about cutting the seatpost..... not an issue. Put tape around tube, marked line to cut to. Cut above this line and file down the small excess. The Carbon/Resin is very solid and there was never any issue of splintering of flaking. The Steerer was just as easy. But I was more careful of obtaining a level cut. After initial cut, I placed fork in frame with headset and placed under load. Then placed stainless steel shims to the required level and filed. You'll end up filing the carbon till it's perfectly level with the stainless steel... pretty easy. You'll end up with a perfectly level surface for your headset cap to apply pressure on.

I'll get some more pics done soon and also discuss a few minor points during the build. 

Oh and as for the 'Custom Built' thing. I couldn't fit.... 'Made in China by a 12yr old in a sweatshop paid 25c per day' ... so 'Custom Built' it is


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## Spudgun74 (Jan 14, 2009)

*Comparison*

Well, I know I promised more pics of the bike. But as I will be changing a few things around on it, I figured I'd leave it until I have a final 'product'.

Anyway, I was curious as to how I could let others know just how this frame performs. Yes, it feels faster and I have seen a reduction in my times. But what specifically has made the improvement? And now I have a way to compare....

I 'stumbled' across a Specialized Transition Comp as seen in the pics in an online auction site. Whilst I had no intention I buying another TT bike, a quick calculation of the components and the price just made the offer too good.

The Specialized is a fast ride and if I didn't have my own build, I would stick with it. But now I have to make a choice! From the pics you can see the frames are relative in sizing, with the Transition having a compact geometry. Seat tube angles are identical to my eye. So, the main difference is the front end. The 100mm headtube on my build places the front end slightly lower and a slightly shorter top tube (8mm) makes for a slightly more compact ride.

Of course, with a non-integrated aerobar set-up you could have a shorter stem and lower angle and achieve the same effect. 

Since I have a choice to make on what bike to keep ( as I will sell one) I will definitely be making a decision based on what one benefits me the most. At this point I would keep the Carbon frame. Even with changing the front-end geometry of the Specialized, the Carbon frame does offer a 'plusher' ride ( even without Spinergys )

Well, anyway.... plenty more testing to be done before I decide. 

But the pics allow you to see how one of these Carbon TT frames compare to a bike/set-up you may be more familiar with.


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## zigurate (Mar 3, 2009)

You did a nice job here, the bike looks amazing.




Spudgun74 said:


> Well, I finally got around to putting it all together. To say I'm happy with the completed project is a huge understatement!
> 
> I'll give a report of ride quality once I've had more time on it and post more pics of the build.
> 
> In the meantime, I am one happy guy!!


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## Spudgun74 (Jan 14, 2009)

*Final product*

Well, this is the bike as a finished product.... well as finished as can be without me buying anything else! I took the front-end off the Specialized Transition and have changed over to a Campag Record Grouppo. 

It rides wonderfully, I have nothing negative to say about these frames and would happily buy the road ones also.

Any questions more than welcome.


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## JaeP (Mar 12, 2002)

Great build. BTW, what's the name of the font you used?


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## athletic91 (May 28, 2009)

nice stickers, my ebay carbon frame is still plain


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## Kwantani (Sep 26, 2002)

*Any seller carrying anything smaller than 54?*

Has anyone seen any of of these ebay carbon seller carrying anything TT frame smaller than 54? 54 is ust one size too big for me. 52 would be ideal, so far I've not seen it yet. Let me know if you spot one? Thx.

Also has anyone try to set it up as a road bike configuration? like the Felt aero road bike thing?

bump...


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## Spudgun74 (Jan 14, 2009)

Font is called 'Beware'

http://www.dafont.com/search.php?q=...=1&text=karbon&nb_ppp=50&psize=m&classt=alpha

Heaps of great fonts to use on this site if you take the time to look around.


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## TriFokaPL (Jun 5, 2009)

Spudgun74 said:


> Well, whilst awaiting the arrival of the frame. I have continued to browse around and it becomes fairly obvious that these frames are in wide use.
> 
> If you look at the ones on EBay, there are some variances, such as headtube nose, rear wheel cutout and seatpost integrated / not. But there are heaps of companies using these frames. I'm not talking about your big-name brands.
> 
> ...




is the cronometro tt frame that had pictures attached earlier still available ??


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## rook (Apr 5, 2009)

Nice bike. I'm just wondering how much saddle setback can be achieved? I don't like the really agressive seat tube angle of most time-trial bikes. I prefer to have my saddle pushed further back and have my knee position over the pedal spindle.


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## CleavesF (Dec 31, 2007)

Karbon Koncepts?

You starting your own frachise? Nice bike


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## brentster (Jul 12, 2007)

After checking out your awesome rig, my bike sure seems boring now. Great job!!!


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## Spudgun74 (Jan 14, 2009)

Thanks for your comments! 

I think there is a lot of satisfaction in doing your own build. I'm just thankful to the other folks who went ahead and did the 'Hasa' builds, it certainly helped make my mind up on going down this road.


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## Spudgun74 (Jan 14, 2009)

I would say adjustability would be similar as other set-ups. I have changed the clamp system to something smaller and of better design than what came stock with the frame. Initially I had the saddle too far back for me, and it still had a heap of room to move backwards.


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## bikerboyf3 (Apr 12, 2009)

Does anyone know Integrated Headset was used for the bike. Thanks.


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## Spudgun74 (Jan 14, 2009)

Hi, 
To play it safe I got a headset from the manufacturer for US$20. 

You'll need - 41.8 mm X 45 degree. I did have some FSA Headsets to use, but the stack height wasn't quite right and there was a gap of 1-2mm, hence my use of the manufacturers one.

Not the highest quality one I have ever seen, but it does the job.

Hope this helps.


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## Macilvennon (Jun 22, 2009)

Hi Spudgun, 

I'm really impressed with your custom bike mate, nice job. I've seen these TT frames on ebay for quite a while but have not considered them because I thought the frame size was 54cm. Turns out this was the top tube measurement. 

I am going to buy one of these frames, but I just have a few questions which I hope you will answer. Is the frame size measurement definitely 49.5cm? What weight is the bike when built up? Which seller on ebay did you buy it from?

I'm also thinking of using your Karbon Concepts decals, as long as you don't have a copyright on them?  

Regards, Bobby.


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## Snakebitten (Jun 26, 2008)

Will this frame fit someone 6'6" tall? Looks like they only have 54cm? Sucks as I really like the looks of it.


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## emoney (May 9, 2009)

BTW, there are 'middle-men' who represent the Factories in Tawain that would enable you to purchase these frames direct. That's what a lot of the Ebayers are doing. They don't necessarily inventory those bikes, may have purchased one to verify what they're selling, and then just 'order' one once it's sold. As a matter of fact, just about every bike component a person needs can be had the same way. It takes a lot of effort to find one willing to sell 'one' or even 'two' of something, but I saw an entire Sram Red groupset for $350 if you bought 5. If I had extra money, I would because mathematically, I don't see how you could bo wrong. You spend 1700.00 on 5 groupsets, sell 4, keep one for yourself and you've profitted and other people have paid for yours.
Just throwing another 2 cents in.


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## raymonda (Jan 31, 2007)

emoney said:


> BTW, there are 'middle-men' who represent the Factories in Tawain that would enable you to purchase these frames direct. That's what a lot of the Ebayers are doing. They don't necessarily inventory those bikes, may have purchased one to verify what they're selling, and then just 'order' one once it's sold. As a matter of fact, just about every bike component a person needs can be had the same way. It takes a lot of effort to find one willing to sell 'one' or even 'two' of something, but I saw an entire Sram Red groupset for $350 if you bought 5. If I had extra money, I would because mathematically, I don't see how you could bo wrong. You spend 1700.00 on 5 groupsets, sell 4, keep one for yourself and you've profitted and other people have paid for yours.
> Just throwing another 2 cents in.


I thought SRAM was made in the USA?


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## HMBAtrail (Jan 8, 2008)

The bike certainly looks purposeful, no doubt. 

The one niggle I get when I look at it is the "Custom Built" sticker. As a framebuilder, that offends me just a little bit. Application of decals doth not a custom make.

But, to each their own and I won't lose any sleep over it. Congrats on the new member of the stable.


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## raymonda (Jan 31, 2007)

HMBAtrail said:


> The bike certainly looks purposeful, no doubt.
> 
> The one niggle I get when I look at it is the "Custom Built" sticker. As a framebuilder, that offends me just a little bit. Application of decals doth not a custom make.
> 
> But, to each their own and I won't lose any sleep over it. Congrats on the new member of the stable.


Custom sticker kit rather than custom built frame. Although, there is an aurgment for calling it a custom selected parts package.


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## Salsa_Lover (Jul 6, 2008)

Bailey Bikes has been selling this same frames fully built

http://bailey-bikes.com/p.cfm/road/integral-time-trial


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## Spudgun74 (Jan 14, 2009)

I think this frame would be way too small for someone 6'6". I'm not cramp, but at 6' I'm definitely at the upper end of who will fit this frame. Shame they only have the one size, there's been talk of other sizes becoming available.... but nothing ever happens. Okay Macilvennon, here are some answers for you.....

It's not a stock-standard, buy a frame and put on the parts and away you go. There will be some tweaking required and you'll need to cut the frame and steerer tube probably. Sizing is 54cm Top tube, center to center. From the rear of my stem to the front of the seatpost measures 49cm. Where is the 49.5cm measurement coming from? I have honestly not weighed the bike and would have to guess this one.... it feels light, but does around 8kg sound okay?? Probably closer to 7kg, but I really haven't got a clue... lol

I'm brought the frame for it's geometry and aero characteristics, it's light, but for me the other two factors are more important.

I brought it from bikebicycle99

http://cgi.ebay.com/Carbon-Triathlo...66:2|39:1|72:1205|240:1318|301:0|293:1|294:50

I don't mind you using the name I used, but part of the fun is building something unique. 

I look forward to seeing your build.... any questions just let me know. I also just put this one back together and it's old, but a great ride!

http://forums.roadbikereview.com/showthread.php?p=2189412#poststop


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## Spudgun74 (Jan 14, 2009)

My 'use' of the wording Custom built doesn't refer to the frame build at all.... well for me anyway. But I understand where you could be disgruntled coming from a frame-building background. For me, It's the fact that I have built it with the parts I want, maybe I should use the term Custom-made, to reflect it's made to my requirements? 

All I know is that there is nothing else like it and I'm still waiting for someone else to buy one and post some pics.... I'm feeling a bit lonely


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## Spudgun74 (Jan 14, 2009)

Not quite the same frame, but they are sold on Ebay nonetheless.


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## cydswipe (Mar 7, 2002)

Is the seat mast adjustment on backwards? On most TT bikes, the adjustment is on the back of the seat mast. Just asking. Great looking bike though, those decals kick serious a$$.


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## Spudgun74 (Jan 14, 2009)

Yeah, It does look a bit weird there and it's certainly not the 'normal' location for the securing bolts. But that's just how it is with these particular frames...


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## WPickens (Apr 20, 2007)

Bike Looks SWWWEET. I actually decided to order the road frame offered by the same seller. I just hit the send payment button on paypal. I will post pics when I get her in the mail. The only hang up that I have is the use of the integrated headset. I wish that they used an internal or conventional style headset. I am worried about "better" conventional style headsets not fitting. I am considering the Chris King InSet. Has anyone heard anything about how well their reaming tool works?


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## Macilvennon (Jun 22, 2009)

WPickens,

I have also just bought a carbon road frame yesterday from a seller named bicycle_999. Before I bought the frame I asked the seller if he had any headsets to fit and they said yes and that they would provide one for free if I bought the frame and fork.

I have read on another thread that the headset is of good quality. Might be worth your while asking the seller for a free headset?

Are you gona keep your frame Ninja Black or put on decals.....I am undecided?

The waiting is killing me and it's only been 1 day!

Bobby.


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## WPickens (Apr 20, 2007)

Thanks for the tip!, the seller is throwing in a headset for me. I am still a little concerned with using a cheap headset and end up with an ovalized headtube with the integrated headset. I havent fully decided on the decals, but I am sort of liking a big HUFFY in lime green letters. =0)


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## vowov (Jul 3, 2009)

Spudgun74, how did you set up the cables below the bottom bracket? I can't see a cable housing stop below the bottom bracket on the frame on the photos I looked on ebay. One more thing.. does cable housing go completely through the frame or just the cables?

Cheers


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## Spudgun74 (Jan 14, 2009)

Hi, 
Here is a pic of the BB from underneath. The scuffs you see are on the top laquer coat and this was the only poor area of finish on the frame.. Anyway, the housings stop at the top of the frame, also be sure to put some cable ends on these or they can be pulled through the stops in the frame.. I found this out the hard way.

The cable guide on the BB is a standard Shimano one available on Ebay, but I had one lying around. These have two mounting holes and neither one really lines up correctly, so I cut the middle piece out and mounted it in the center which works fine and the guide lines up with the internal routing hole for the front derailleur.

As for as the headset goes, I would hardly call the one supplied by the seller as good quality. I would have preferred to use an FSA one or something of higher quality, but the one supplied works for the frame, so that's all that really matters.

I'm hoping someone else buys one of these, so I can see another build. Loads of road frames have been done, I'd also like to see some MTB frames built up as well? Any of these forums around?


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## vowov (Jul 3, 2009)

Thanks Spudgan for the picture. Glad to hear it's shimano compatible. Nice build.


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## zender (Jun 20, 2009)

It'd be nice to know what other headset(s) fit. From what I've been able to find, it seems to be a Campy style integrated one. But, not sure if anyone's put something else in there besides what the ebay sellers supply.


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## bargainbenny (Aug 1, 2009)

Hi Spudgun74,
I have just bought one of these frames and like you it took 4 weeks but it was the Dutch customs that held on to it for 3 of them! I am very happy with the finish on my frame too, no scuffs and just a few slight bumps on the lacquer in places. A few things that I found strange are the fact the paint at the BB doesn’t go all the way to the threaded carriage leaving a raw aluminum section showing even with external cups. Did you paint them or just leave them raw?

The other problem I have had is the internal cable routing, the plastic tubing was crossed over inside the down tube and as I would prefer, to have the cables running strait from the back of my vision bars this is a problem. I want to change the back mech with my right hand. I have now removed these so I can rout the cables strait but I can’t seem to get anything through! How were yours set up and did you keep it? Do you any suggestions on getting the cables through?

I will post pictures once complete, haven’t decided if I should keep the frame raw or make up some decals like you did. 

Thanks
Ben


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## zender (Jun 20, 2009)

Still waiting for my frame to arrive. Will let you know how the internal routing goes when I get it. That sounds like a production error, no? I mean, the rear derailleur cable _should _enter the right side of the frame at the front and exit the right side at the BB, right?


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## bargainbenny (Aug 1, 2009)

That’s what I expected so was surprised when the cable poked out the right side of the bb when I inserted into the left side of the down tube! I did wonder, unfortunately after I removed the tubing that maybe they are meant to go diagonal to avoid rubbing the inside of the frame? I will try again to feed some string through(I have tried using the vacuum with little success) but I have been thinking of drilling out the aluminum grommet so I can slide a cable cover all the way through eliminating any rub and maybe preventing rattling.have


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## Spudgun74 (Jan 14, 2009)

Hi Ben, 

Yes, the finish on the BB is raw. I guess you could paint this, but I have left mine as it was. I did paint the front derailleur hanger though.

Your cable situation sounds very wrong! I had no issues with mine and the right hand tubing exited on the right of the BB for the rear derailuer. Whilst doing my build, I decided to trim the cable housings a bit shorter, so I withdrew the cables from the frame... but had tied string so I could re-thread them after. I accidentally pulled some of the string into the frame and was then in the situation you now find yourself. 
This is a real ***** as you have probably discovered! I'm guessing your frame would be similar, but once I shone a torch inside you can see loose layers of carbon and the insides aren't completely smooth.... there is no way string would ever get from A to B.

So, I used some old cables and threaded them in through the top and basically rammed it down until it was at about the right length as the exit holes on the BB ans simply started poking away.... I reasoned that at some point the cable end would be poked through the hole at the bottom. I was thinking it could take hours, maybe days  But I actually got it within half an hour... I wasn't very happy through that 30mins though!

So good luck with this one! There are probably other solutions also...

Remember to put the housing stops on your cable ends as well. I had assumed that the cable stops in the frame would be sufficient.... but managed to pull my rear brake housing into the frame..

I'm sure you'll hit a few more bumps in the road. I may as well get you started on another one also.... Put your front brake caliper in the fork and try tighten it down. Mine needed some packing inbetween the fork and backing nut on the caliper to make it tight. Same with the rear as well... 
Not straight forward.... but the result is worth it


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## zender (Jun 20, 2009)

Got my frame yesterday. Looks just like the pics others have posted, everything seems to line up fine. The BB threaded part looks like it may have been machined a bit more on mine as it has no irregularities. The front derailleur hanger isn't beautiful, but it works. I also got the free headset and it does look like a Campagnolo hiddenset style integrated headset. It has a very low stack height. FSA makes these and obviously so does campy.

As posted above. This isn't a simple: throw your parts on and start pedaling. You have to know how much seatmast and steerer tube to cut off. Obviously, there is no going back if you take too much so I guess the trick here is to build up the bike with as long a mast and headset/stem stack as you can handle and then shave it down over time. Spudgun's setup looks a bit too extreme for me as a starting point on the steerer tube so I'll try a more road bike stack height with spacers first.

Some updates
- The free headset comes with two very thin (~0.5 mm) steel shims. Not sure what those were for. I had the fork mounted at the LBS and they didn't use these.
- Although it seems that you could probably cut the seatmast a bit short and just clamp the seatpost above a point where it is bottomed out on the seatmast (this is what a Time rep told me about their bike with a similar setup), I would think that with the force you are going to clamp a carbon post onto a carbon seatmast the thing will just slide down when you hit a bump. So, I'm keeping the pieces I cut off as possible shims to use in the future (for example, if I use a saddle that's not as tall).
- My internal cable routing also seems to be criss-crossed as reported above. Not a huge deal, you can route the shifter cable entry to the opposite side of the frame. Some loss of aero... maybe 0.5 seconds in a 40K ? 
- My frame came with a cable guide already bolted to the bottom of the BB area. The front cable passes from here through a tiny hole in the frame and then to the front der. The problem is, the angle this cable takes makes it rub against the pivot on my der. (Ultegra SL). Fixed with a small piece of plastic tubing wrapped around the cable where it contacts the pivot.
- Nowhere to mount a barrel adjuster for the front der. Probably common with any internally routed cable setup.
- Seatpost has one bolt that is driven in from above and one from below to hold the saddle. If you have a seat with a cutout in the middle no problem. Otherwise, you're going to have to come up with some creative way to adjust that bolt from above. A small rachet with a 1/4" drive and hex attachments barely fits in there.


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## Spudgun74 (Jan 14, 2009)

Yes Zender, 

You seem to be hitting all the things I found also, apart from the crossed cable thing...

I didn't use the headset shims either and I just couldn't see a real use for them and the whole area still feels nice and stiff.

The seatpost bolts are tricky, I just had the rear one loose and tweaked the front by hand until it was about the right angle, then tightened up the rear bolt to apply force to the front as well. It took a few loosens & tightens to get the angle right.... but you'll get there.

I didn't have the front derailleur issue you have, but this neither here nor there. Probably pay to keep an eye on that tube incase you wear through it.

Funny, but I kind of forgot a lot of the little 'interruptions' that I came up against.. I'm sure you'll remind me


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## zender (Jun 20, 2009)

It's all built and I have everything set up well enough to ride it. Now, I need to work on getting it dialed in to my body position. It does ride nicely and is very responsive. I've been using a compact double on my road bike for quite a few years, it feels good to turn over an adult sized chainring for a change


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## athletic91 (May 28, 2009)

How do you cuts cut the seatmast? im finding it rather difficult to clamp it


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## bikerboyf3 (Apr 12, 2009)

Use a hacksaw or a dermal


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## bikerboyf3 (Apr 12, 2009)

I used a dermal. But a fine tooth hacksaw will work as well.


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## Spudgun74 (Jan 14, 2009)

Yeah, I just used a hacksaw too. Put tape around area and frame on side, then filed flat after cutting. No issues whatsoever.

Nice to see another one of these frames built up at last


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## bikerboyf3 (Apr 12, 2009)

It's a full ultegra setup w/Keo pedals. I just like how fast it is.


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## zender (Jun 20, 2009)

Do you use this for TT with those drop handlebars? Seems like they'd be painfully low with this frame geometry.


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## bikerboyf3 (Apr 12, 2009)

when I do Tri's I have the stem down with 20mm in spacers but for everyday riding it's 15mm in spacers & a 6 degree up angle. its not painful @ all I ride about 30mi mon-fri on it & on sun atleast 50.


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## zender (Jun 20, 2009)

Here is my final build. I used what I had lying around and bought a few things off ebay, some new, some used. Ultegra SL derailleurs, FSA crank, Dura Ace brakes and levers.

The wheels are really heavy, but I needed something to build the bike and get the geometry right and these were 100 bucks shipped to my door for the pair including skewers and rim tape! They'll make great beaters and indoor trainer wheels.

The second pic is the closeup of the only real 'issue' I have with this frame. I posted about this above, but the bottom-pull front derailleur cable rubs on the pivot of the derailleur. I put a piece of plastic tubing there as a bushing of sorts, but it isn't a very elegant solution.


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## Spudgun74 (Jan 14, 2009)

I have been looking at your front Derailleur and I'm not quite sure why you have this issue and I don't? I would assume the exit hole would be in the same position, but as is the story with these frames, no two are ever alike 

As long as it's functional, then I'm sure you won't even notice the tubing after a while.


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## KMan (Feb 3, 2004)

*derailleur*

Looking at your derailleur photo, it looks like an issue with the derailleur and not the bike?? I don't see how the cable could be routed at all to not rub. Almost looks like the pincg bolt is in the wrong spot....like it needs to me positioned more to the left.

??????


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## Spudgun74 (Jan 14, 2009)

Yes, I would be in agreement with Kman. I had a good look at mine in comparison to yours and it would be the Front derailleur design that differs. Not necessarily the position on the pinch bolt, although this would be a factor. 
But the pivot points and structural components of the front D may mean there are different angles at play. I can't imagine you'd have an issue with SL stuff.

I did 'tweak' my front braze-on mount as the angle was not correct. I drilled the lower mount hole wider so that I could alter it to match the chain rings better. Effectively this dropped the rear of the derailleur and I may have inadvertently solved the cable rub issue at the same time?

The cable comes incredibly close to the derailleur return spring on my bike, but doesn't quite touch.


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## stevesbike (Jun 3, 2002)

I've had this issue on some other TT frames (especially with SRAM). I wouldn't worry about it - ideally you should never shift out of the big chain in a TT anyway.


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## brentster (Jul 12, 2007)

stevesbike said:


> Ideally you should never shift out of the big chain in a TT anyway.


Good point. I have a compact crankset on my road bike and my inner chainring just collects dust.


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## Spudgun74 (Jan 14, 2009)

Yes, furthermore to this line of thought. I guess if you find yourself on relatively flat courses where you know you won't be using the inner ring and if you're a complete weight weenie.
Then you may as well remove inner ring, front D and mounting bracket and associated cabling and shifter..... Of course you would have the possibility of throwing the chain off and having to stop and put back on by hand. 
May as well remove a brake caliper at the same time if you think you'll get away with it


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## zender (Jun 20, 2009)

After a handful of test rides, the plastic tubing trick seems to work. It's still in place and the front shifting is fine. I do have to climb a 6-8% hill to get to a nice long flat that I like to train on so I do need to keep a small ring on this bike.


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## grole (Sep 20, 2009)

Is this frame to small for me? I'm 6'1 ?
Is 54 the only size "out there"?


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## zender (Jun 20, 2009)

You can try to contact one of the sellers on ebay for other sizes. When I ordered, that's all they had. I'm 5'11" and had to cut a bunch off the seat tube and it's still a bit tall for me and I have a fairly short stem on there right now. I think 6'1" might still be OK with a longer stem. Of course, the devil is in the details with bike geometry and your body size.


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## athletic91 (May 28, 2009)

the new tt frame the ebay sellers are gonns list soon. any comments about the rear dropouts? im worried the wheel would fall out


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## grole (Sep 20, 2009)

That's the normal dropouts on TT bikes to get the wheel as close to the frame as possible?


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## grole (Sep 20, 2009)

Do you know how much the frame will cost? Its nice..


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## chocy (Feb 4, 2009)

That is a track bike. Not a TT bike


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## grole (Sep 20, 2009)

chocy said:


> That is a track bike. Not a TT bike


?? how can you tell?


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## mrbubbles (Jul 1, 2007)

chocy said:


> That is a track bike. Not a TT bike


Incorrect. It has FD mount and cable routing slots, the rd dropout mount isn't on there.


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## livin4lax09 (Mar 15, 2008)

they're not dropouts. they're track ends. I think if track riders can ride them without the wheels falling out, geared bikes will be ok.


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## grole (Sep 20, 2009)

Is the P2 a trackbike too??


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## andresmuro (Dec 11, 2007)

No the Cerevelo is not a track bike. It has a rear derailleur hanger making it a road bike. Notice that the Asian carbon fiber frame does not have a derailleur hanger.


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## stevesbike (Jun 3, 2002)

they are just showing the TT frame without the derailleur hanger screwed onto the frame - it's in the pic if you look closely. Many TT frames have horizontal dropouts (mine does). It lets you adjust the wheel to be as close to the seattube as you want. Once upon a time, it was the standard for road frames - I have a Look from 1990 with them.


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## Spudgun74 (Jan 14, 2009)

Good eye Steve, I see it by the zip ties at the bottom of pic too. It would be strange to have a frame with front hanger, cable routing and no rear hanger... 

It's a nice looking frame, but I'm still very happy with mine. In regards to an earlier query about frame size. I think it would fit a rider of 6'1", but again you can't say this without seeing the particular rider in question. I'm 6' and still had to trim the seatpost about 1cm.

I'd be interested to see one of these new eBay frames built up by someone.


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## grole (Sep 20, 2009)

This is the new frame in size 56.

"488usd for TT frame set with 12k clear coating include frame and fork and seatpost
Best regards

Tony"

Now I'm afraid this is to big....


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## stevesbike (Jun 3, 2002)

who is selling that frame?


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## grole (Sep 20, 2009)

I sent an email to Tony in Greatkeen, I read that many bought frames throug him if you read the "Hasa Frame 950g $479" tread


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## Dutch77 (Jan 3, 2009)

grole said:


> I sent an email to Tony in Greatkeen, I read that many bought frames throug him if you read the "Hasa Frame 950g $479" tread


Except that they haven't. He's been mentioned be other new members with a very low post count like yourself, AFAIK nobody has bought one of their frames, especially since they only took a money order (no paypal or credit card). Highly suspicious if you ask me.


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## grole (Sep 20, 2009)

Thanks for your inquiry.

Pls refer to the attached geomatry for New TT frameset;

488usd for TT frame set with 12k clear coating include frame and fork and seatpost;

208usd for TT handlebar ;

82usd for shipping cost;

We accept paypal payment and TT ,but you need pay for the excess charge for paypal and bank.

If you have any question pls contact with me.

Best regards

Tony
----- 原始邮件 -----
发件人：Geir Ole Johansen <[email protected]>
收件人：[email protected]
主题：TT carbon frame size.
日期：2009-11-20 01:01:51


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## grole (Sep 20, 2009)

I have never purchased any product from this company. 
I'm just posting the info I got from this company. I don't know anything about this company and if its not legit I'm sorry that I give them free advertising.


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## williethewaiter (Nov 25, 2008)

I've ordered two frames (same as above) from him yesterday, have been faffing around for ages sorting out a paint job they're going to do for me etc etc... his communication has been excellent.

however a colleague of the other guy on my order was going to jump in on our order, but decided he'd just do his own.. and it frikkin arrived 4 days later!!

I haven't seen the frame, but the other two chaps raved about it - certainly made me a lot more comfy about pulling the trigger.

when they arrive i'll be able to give some feedback. And I paid via paypal.

I'll see if I can get some pics from the frame that already arrived.


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## bexiesbruv (Apr 8, 2008)

*Great Keen TT frame*

Hi folks
first time post but I thought I could give some input.
Williethewaiter
I have just placed my order with Tony at GreatKeen for the 015 ISP frame, fork headset and BB.
I am still deciding on the TT frame.
Just a point to consider. There are two seat post options I believe. One gives much steeper (effective) seat angles than the other. I queried this with Tony, I had a drawing that gave 71-76 degrees and he sent me the drawing as per above saying they changed for triathlon.
Just FYI
Please let us know what the paint is like, if yours is coming painted. Thats been my biggest issue to making the purchase. My local body shop will paint the frame for me for $200 and I really dont know if thats the better option.
One question, not yet answered by Tony. Does the frame need the 12k or 3k wrap on it if its being completely painted? There must be a weight saving if not? EDIT/Dec 5 Got a reply from Tony Yang, painting the nude carbon is heavier by about 200grams than 12k or 3k finish and clear coat.
Cheers
Bex


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## sycyco (Dec 24, 2009)

Hi Spudgun, 

Did you run cable outers right through the frame? Or did you cut and leave the clear tubing in the frame? My tubing is cross wired as mentioned by other people. I guess I'll have to take it all out and redo the thing with torch and poking method :|

Lastly did you cut your seat mast to the exact length?


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