# The Armstrong Lemond Feud -Facts Please



## ultimobici (Jul 16, 2005)

Being in Europe I suspect that not all of the interviews that have taken place have been published or aired here.

If anyone has actual direct reports or video links could you post them here please?

If you have an opinion either way please refrain from posting in this thread as it is intended just to elicit information. So just first hand stuff please.


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## 55x11 (Apr 24, 2006)

ultimobici said:


> Being in Europe I suspect that not all of the interviews that have taken place have been published or aired here.
> 
> If anyone has actual direct reports or video links could you post them here please?
> 
> If you have an opinion either way please refrain from posting in this thread as it is intended just to elicit information. So just first hand stuff please.


You can educate yourself on Lemond-Armstrong feud by listening to public opinion:

On the Continuing Feud between Lemond and Armstrong


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## bas (Jul 30, 2004)

ultimobici said:


> Being in Europe I suspect that not all of the interviews that have taken place have been published or aired here.
> 
> If anyone has actual direct reports or video links could you post them here please?
> 
> If you have an opinion either way please refrain from posting in this thread as it is intended just to elicit information. So just first hand stuff please.


the govt in investigating landis's claims.

that's all there is. the govt hasn't made their case. there is no more information to be found.


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## ultimobici (Jul 16, 2005)

55x11 said:


> You can educate yourself on Lemond-Armstrong feud by listening to public opinion:
> 
> On the Continuing Feud between Lemond and Armstrong


Mate, I want interviews or actual reports not cycling's equivalent of Perez Hilton.

Not rocket science is it?


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## ultimobici (Jul 16, 2005)

bas said:


> the govt in investigating landis's claims.
> 
> that's all there is. the govt hasn't made their case. there is no more information to be found.


No what I'm after is a timeline of what has happened between Lemond & Armstrong, without opinion or slant. Just what actually was reported or TV & radio interviews with Lemond or Armstrong in the 99-2005 period


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## terzo rene (Mar 23, 2002)

News always involved slant and opinion. Just the act of selecting what, out of millions of things, to report involves an opinion about what's important.

From what Lemond has said recently more has been reported in the Euro zone than in the US over the years. I think the biggest incident was screwing over Lemond's bike biz dealings with Trek after he started speaking out about LA's supernatural abilities.


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## ultimobici (Jul 16, 2005)

terzo rene said:


> News always involved slant and opinion. Just the act of selecting what, out of millions of things, to report involves an opinion about what's important.
> 
> From what Lemond has said recently more has been reported in the Euro zone than in the US over the years. I think the biggest incident was screwing over Lemond's bike biz dealings with Trek after he started speaking out about LA's supernatural abilities.


So from the 99-2006 period we got the same info that was in the US? 
I have see reference to various TV interviews & programmes that haven't been screened here, mainly due to the total apathy of the UK sports media. That's probably what I am missing. 
Reported speech is so easy to slant, whereas actually seeing the person answer questions allows the viewer to have a better chance of getting the correct inferences.


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## gobes (Sep 12, 2006)

Find the phone conversation that Lemond taped between him and the Oakley rep (can't remember her name at the moment).


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## terzo rene (Mar 23, 2002)

Wouldn't be at all surprised if the UK coverage was similar to the US. Even reading several cycling news sites every day for most of the LA years it was like Lemond had vanished for the bulk of that time. He really only started to show up on the radar again when the Trek lawsuit got going and especially after the Landis testimony and associated circus.

Besides don't you know all the US and UK news has to be approved by the same powers that be before anything can be put on air?


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## ultimobici (Jul 16, 2005)

terzo rene said:


> Wouldn't be at all surprised if the UK coverage was similar to the US. Even reading several cycling news sites every day for most of the LA years it was like Lemond had vanished for the bulk of that time. He really only started to show up on the radar again when the Trek lawsuit got going and especially after the Landis testimony and associated circus.
> 
> Besides don't you know all the US and UK news has to be approved by the same powers that be before anything can be put on air?


"News" may be similar especially as Cyclingnews has become more US orientated.
But we don't get GL on mainstream TV or in the papers unless it's BIG BIG LA news time. So stuff all since he retired. The most cycling documentary or interviews we can hope for is Olympic or Tour stuff. It's centred on our track squad or Sky or Wiggins or LA, but not necessarily in that order.

ITV4's coverage has Phil Liggett and Paul Sherwen fawning over LA, while thinking up ways to use the words pain, suffer & pain over and over and over.


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## karatemom (Mar 21, 2008)

gobes said:
 

> Find the phone conversation the Lemond taped between him and the Oakley rep (can't remember her name at the moment).


Something like Stephanie McIlyvain.


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## ultimobici (Jul 16, 2005)

Already have that 
http://53x11.com/docs/greg-lemond-stephanie-mcilvain.mp3


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## rydbyk (Feb 17, 2010)

ultimobici said:


> Being in Europe I suspect that not all of the interviews that have taken place have been published or aired here.
> 
> If anyone has actual direct reports or video links could you post them here please?
> 
> If you have an opinion either way please refrain from posting in this thread as it is intended just to elicit information. So just first hand stuff please.



I would like to know more too. What I want details on is HOW EXACTLY did Lance Armstrong RUIN LeMonds' bicycle biz?? What did Lance do exactly or say??

I understand the Trek Lemond bicycle connection, but did Lance threaten to walk away from Trek if they continued to push the Lemond brand bicycles in their stores nationwide??


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## ultimobici (Jul 16, 2005)

rydbyk said:


> I would like to know more too. What I want details on is HOW EXACTLY did Lance Armstrong RUIN LeMonds' bicycle biz?? What did Lance do exactly or say??
> 
> I understand the Trek Lemond bicycle connection, but did Lance threaten to walk away from Trek if they continued to push the Lemond brand bicycles in their stores nationwide??


I was working in a Trek & Lemond dealer from 1998 to 2004. There was a total lack of promotion from around 2002 for Lemond bikes compared to almost saturation level for Trek with Lance. 

I can understand that Trek would want to capitalise on USPS & Armstrong's success, but it was unusual that at the same time the Lemond brand appeared to be deliberately allowed to wither and die. Don't know what it was like in the US though.


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## rydbyk (Feb 17, 2010)

ultimobici said:


> I was working in a Trek & Lemond dealer from 1998 to 2004. There was a total lack of promotion from around 2002 for Lemond bikes compared to almost saturation level for Trek with Lance.
> 
> I can understand that Trek would want to capitalise on USPS & Armstrong's success, but it was unusual that at the same time the Lemond brand appeared to be deliberately allowed to wither and die. Don't know what it was like in the US though.


Clearly "something" odd happened. Here in S. California, LeMond bikes were selling really well....at least I saw them everywhere on the road.....still do in fact (just old ones).

Then...bam...seems like the brand just vanished. Posssibly Trek just got tired of doing biz with LeMond?? Again, I want details on this whole ordeal. So many members have said something to the effect of "Lance ruined LeMond's bike biz....". Well...how?


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## SilasCL (Jun 14, 2004)

rydbyk said:


> Clearly "something" odd happened. Here in S. California, LeMond bikes were selling really well....at least I saw them everywhere on the road.....still do in fact (just old ones).
> 
> Then...bam...seems like the brand just vanished. Posssibly Trek just got tired of doing biz with LeMond?? Again, I want details on this whole ordeal. So many members have said something to the effect of "Lance ruined LeMond's bike biz....". Well...how?


You could always google it:

http://www.startribune.com/business/17390774.html

http://velonews.competitor.com/2010/02/news/treklemond-lawsuit-settled_103631


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## ultimobici (Jul 16, 2005)

rydbyk said:


> Clearly "something" odd happened. Here in S. California, LeMond bikes were selling really well....at least I saw them everywhere on the road.....still do in fact (just old ones).
> 
> Then...bam...seems like the brand just vanished. Posssibly Trek just got tired of doing biz with LeMond?? Again, I want details on this whole ordeal. So many members have said something to the effect of "Lance ruined LeMond's bike biz....". Well...how?


This is my take on the "ordeal".
The Lemond-Trek licensing arrangement dated back to 1995, after GL had retired. Trek were effectively trading on past glory to sell the brand, but it didn't matter because Lemond was the only Tour winner from the US and he was theirs. 
Barely four years later, with Armstrong's glorious return from almost certain death to win the Tour, Trek had a bona fide poster boy with which to plug their main brand Trek. It was only natural that they would pay more attention to a current rider promoting their house brand, rather than Lemond who hadn't raced since 94 and hadn't won since 90. 
Lemond, as far as I can tell, didn't raise any complaint publicly at the time. But upon the link to Ferrari being revealed he voiced his concerns about the relationship. His words seem more like those of an older brother worried about the ramifications at this stage to me, not ones accusing LA of anything. 
I can imagine that by 2001/2 with 3 Tour wins to his name and fast becoming a global brand, LA had considerable clout with the USPS team. Trek needed LA more than LA needed them. He could have walked into any bike company in the world and named his price for the chance to supply USPS. Can you imagine Mike Sinyard turning the chance down?


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## rydbyk (Feb 17, 2010)

ultimobici said:


> This is my take on the "ordeal".
> The Lemond-Trek licensing arrangement dated back to 1995, after GL had retired. Trek were effectively trading on past glory to sell the brand, but it didn't matter because Lemond was the only Tour winner from the US and he was theirs.
> Barely four years later, with Armstrong's glorious return from almost certain death to win the Tour, Trek had a bona fide poster boy with which to plug their main brand Trek. It was only natural that they would pay more attention to a current rider promoting their house brand, rather than Lemond who hadn't raced since 94 and hadn't won since 90.
> Lemond, as far as I can tell, didn't raise any complaint publicly at the time. But upon the link to Ferrari being revealed he voiced his concerns about the relationship. His words seem more like those of an older brother worried about the ramifications at this stage to me, not ones accusing LA of anything.
> I can imagine that by 2001/2 with 3 Tour wins to his name and fast becoming a global brand, LA had considerable clout with the USPS team. Trek needed LA more than LA needed them. He could have walked into any bike company in the world and named his price for the chance to supply USPS. Can you imagine Mike Sinyard turning the chance down?


You are probably fairly accurate in your interpretation of what occured. Based on the assumption that LeMond bikes had a fairly good reputation, I am surprised that the brand did not continue elsewhere...possibly under the umbrella of another big bike co., or possibly Greg and friends...

I am guessing that Trek had the rights to the LeMond brand and Greg did not even have an option of taking his bike name elsewhere...??

If so, it seems like it could have been beneficial for Greg to purchase the name back from Trek (who felt it was a "dead" label anyways) and go on with the biz...afterall, the brand WAS selling really well for awhile here it seems..

If what you are saying is accurate, I can't see why Greg would be upset with Lance for "ruining his business"....seems like he should be more upset with Trek...not Lance. I understand why Greg does not like LA for other reasons...but not this...


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## wim (Feb 28, 2005)

rydbyk said:


> I am guessing that Trek had the rights to the LeMond brand and Greg did not even have an option of taking his bike name elsewhere...??


Trek entered into a sub-licensing agreement with Greg Lemond, allowing Trek to use the Lemond name on bikes manufactured / assembled by Trek. As far as I know, the trade name "Lemond" was never and is not now "owned" by Trek. Lemond's company called "Lemond Cycling" is still viable.


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## Allez Rouge (Jan 1, 1970)

rydbyk said:


> Based on the assumption that LeMond bikes had a fairly good reputation, I am surprised that the brand did not continue elsewhere...possibly under the umbrella of another big bike co., or possibly Greg and friends...


This page on LeMond's personal web site suggests that they're at least thinking about it.

I own a LeMond -- a 2005 Buenos Aires, one of the steel/carbon "spine" bikes -- and other than being a little too big for me, it's a great bike. I'd love to have the opportunity to buy a new, all-steel LeMond.


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## ilmaestro (May 3, 2008)

Allez Rouge said:


> This page on LeMond's personal web site suggests that they're at least thinking about it.
> 
> I own a LeMond -- a 2005 Buenos Aires, one of the steel/carbon "spine" bikes -- and other than being a little too big for me, it's a great bike. I'd love to have the opportunity to buy a new, all-steel LeMond.


The steel-carbon bikes are sweet! I own a Lemond too, and it is indeed a nice bike


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## aptivaboy (Nov 21, 2009)

I think ultimobici has it right. Lemonds were fairly popular back in the late '90s and the bikes had solid reputations. As soon as Lance became the new darling, Trek pretty much stopped promoting the Lemond brand. Several Trek dealerships near me had nothing on Lemonds by the early 2000s, while just a couple of years before they had lots of Lemonds in stock and ads everywhere. I had to drive to a shop about 80 miles away to buy my 2000 Lemond Zurich, still a sweet ride, because none of the three Trek dealerships within a half hour drive had very many, if any, in stock by then, and seriously, minimal to no Lemond literature in the shops. Its no wonder that Lemond sales fell flat. 

I suspect that whatever else went on between Lance and Greg, that was the beginning of the breakup of the Trek-Lemond relationship.


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## Frank-L (May 7, 2009)

I am usually the Master of All Links but I cannot find the link to the youtube presentation by John Burke in which he gives specific details on the decision (and a timeline of events).

Too bad I cannot find that video!


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## Fogdweller (Mar 26, 2004)

There is another facet to the relationship with Trek souring. Greg was about to release a low cost cycling clothing line under the name "Greg Lemond" aimed at mass America (target, wallmart, ect) and Trek claimed that they "owned" his brand. His contention was that Trek only licensed "Lemond" and not "Greg Lemond" and Trek threatened to sue. The line was never released, I'm not sure why, but it certainly didn't help relations after everything else that happened. I got this story from a Trek rep and it never made the gossip circles of cycling since there were a lot better things to talk about like Lemond's challenge of Armstrong @ the Interbike press conference, Greg's 500 bikes he got over the years for "personal use", etc...


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## pedalruns (Dec 18, 2002)

A little history:

2001 was the turning point, when Lemond just told the truth about Armstrong and then he was FORCED to recant his truthful statement and was silent for 3 years, statement below... And in Feburary of this year a settlement with Trek was reached in favor of Lemond: http://www.nydailynews.com/sports/m...icycle_corporation_reach_outofcourt_sett.html

Lemond Statement in July of 2001:
"When Lance won the prologue to the 1999 Tour I was close to tears, but when I heard he was working with Michele Ferrari I was devastated. In the light of Lance's relationship with Ferrari, I just don't want to comment on this year's Tour. This is not sour grapes. I'm disappointed in Lance, that's all it is."
A month later, LeMond issued an apology for this comment, calling Armstrong "a great champion and I do not believe, in any way, that he has ever used any performance-enhancing substances. I believe his performances are the result of the same hard work, dedication and focus that were mine 10 years ago."[15]
LeMond spoke out again three years later, after additional Tour de France wins by Armstrong. "If Armstrong's clean, it's the greatest comeback. And if he's not, then it's the greatest fraud." He also described the fallout of his 2001 statement, alleging that Armstrong had threatened to defame him, and that his business interest had also been threatened.


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Greg_LeMond


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## 55x11 (Apr 24, 2006)

ultimobici said:


> Mate, I want interviews or actual reports not cycling's equivalent of Perez Hilton.
> 
> Not rocket science is it?


Wait, you don't know what "The Onion" is?!


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## ultimobici (Jul 16, 2005)

55x11 said:


> Wait, you don't know what "The Onion" is?!


I know what "The Onion" is. I wanted actual events not opinion. What did Lemond actually say/do other than the 2001 & 2004 comments which were innocuous at most.


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## 55x11 (Apr 24, 2006)

ultimobici said:


> I know what "The Onion" is. I wanted actual events not opinion. What did Lemond actually say/do other than the 2001 & 2004 comments which were innocuous at most.


Sorry, mobici, I thought you would find the Onion bit funny.


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## ultimobici (Jul 16, 2005)

55x11 said:


> Sorry, mobici, I thought you would find the Onion bit funny.


I must have spent too much time on the forum on cyclingnews! Sorry


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## AdamM (Jul 9, 2008)

> This is my take on the "ordeal".
> The Lemond-Trek licensing arrangement dated back to 1995, after GL had retired. Trek were effectively trading on past glory to sell the brand, but it didn't matter because Lemond was the only Tour winner from the US and he was theirs.


The funny thing is that from what I've seen on the road, the "Lemond" brand sold well to a customer that most likey wouldn't ride a "Trek". I know they tried to replace the business with Fisher, but I haven't seen where they've had a lot of success as compared to the typical elite road racer types that seemed to ride Lemond's.


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## DMFT (Feb 3, 2005)

Fogdweller said:


> There is another facet to the relationship with Trek souring. Greg was about to release a low cost cycling clothing line under the name "Greg Lemond" aimed at mass America (target, wallmart, ect) and Trek claimed that they "owned" his brand. His contention was that Trek only licensed "Lemond" and not "Greg Lemond" and Trek threatened to sue. The line was never released, I'm not sure why, but it certainly didn't help relations after everything else that happened. I got this story from a Trek rep and it never made the gossip circles of cycling since there were a lot better things to talk about like Lemond's challenge of Armstrong @ the Interbike press conference, Greg's 500 bikes he got over the years for "personal use", etc...



- I thought it was "LeMond Cycling"? - And besides accesories it was exercise bikes too...

And "Yes", that is all part of the start of the souring of the relationship of Greg & Trek.
It sucks, but it's reality. I'm not saying Trek is the "best evarrrrr" brand but they do have their fair-share of reclamation projects that have done well. 

For a long-while, they kept alive: Keith Bontrager, Gary Klein, Gary Fisher & Greg Lemond. All were failed business's and bailed-out by the big "T". Those guy's are ALL legends in the sport of cycling and do owe a lot to Trek for not letting them slip into complete obscurity.

IMO - Trek did and has done well by 50-75% of those 4. Only 25% has tried to do other "projects" using their name in business outside of Treks ownership/control.
So again, IMO, along with the numerous stories of dealers being undersold by G.L. himself on E.P. bikes was there really anything Trek could/should be obligated to do "for" G.L.?

Tough call and I do miss my 853 Zurich from back-in-the-day BTW.....


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