# 2014 AR FRD & IA...Pictures dont do them justice



## z85guy (Apr 25, 2011)

Volunteered at the San Diego Triathlon Classic Friday and saw these both on display. Simply amazing! The new AR is by far the best looking aero bike out there IMHO. Talked to two of the Felt guys who were very cool and knowledgeable. Superdave wasnt at the booth but I saw his ride with Campy and very impressed. Great job Felt!!


----------



## Superdave3T (May 11, 2009)

z85guy said:


> Volunteered at the San Diego Triathlon Classic Friday and saw these both on display. Simply amazing! The new AR is by far the best looking aero bike out there IMHO. Talked to two of the Felt guys who were very cool and knowledgeable. Superdave wasnt at the booth but I saw his ride with Campy and very impressed. Great job Felt!!


Sorry I missed you! I must have ducked out for a bite to eat when you stopped by. With Slater's 50/50 and Stone so close by I decided on lunch outside the booth. Next time you're welcome to take my AR1 for a test ride. I rode down to the event from our office in Irvine and took advantage of the route to go through the hills in Dana Point, San Clemente, Torrey Pines, and Soledad on the way down. The bike has performed beyond my expectations for comfort and ride quality. Of course the superlight aero frame is a great benefit but I'm most pleased with how smooth the bike is even after 5 hours in the saddle.

-SD


----------



## YB1 (May 14, 2009)

I saw an interview on the Felt stand at Eurobike that mentioned a white paper coming on these new frames. Obviously they are at the leading edge in many areas. I'm curious how much of the wind tunnel work is done with water bottles involved, especially on the AR. Since it's bike that will be ridden most of the time with at least one, and often two "normal" bottles I wondered about that. Especially after seeing a Giant designer talk about how their down tube was designed WITH water bottles attached, which seems to make a lot of sense.


----------



## Superdave3T (May 11, 2009)

YB1 said:


> I saw an interview on the Felt stand at Eurobike that mentioned a white paper coming on these new frames. Obviously they are at the leading edge in many areas. I'm curious how much of the wind tunnel work is done with water bottles involved, especially on the AR. Since it's bike that will be ridden most of the time with at least one, and often two "normal" bottles I wondered about that. Especially after seeing a Giant designer talk about how their down tube was designed WITH water bottles attached, which seems to make a lot of sense.


I'm curious as to what they would change once a water bottle and a person was on the bike. The downtube is the wrong area to focus upon and has a small part of the total drag equation.
-SD


----------



## YB1 (May 14, 2009)

SuperdaveFelt said:


> I'm curious as to what they would change once a water bottle and a person was on the bike. The downtube is the wrong area to focus upon and has a small part of the total drag equation.
> -SD


I don't know if I understand what you're saying, the overall aerodynamic "package" is what I have to pedal, that means a bike WITH bottles. The Giant person was talking about the aerodynamic influence of water bottles on a frame in a tunnel and in the "real world". From the imagery I saw, it appears they are doing a "Kamm tail" Trek-style down tube. From my understanding of low speed aerodynamics, they attempt to "trick" the flow into acting like there's a longer foil present than actually exists. Scott has been using these sections too, blunted on the backside. 

I also think i _may_ have seen longer, skinnier bottles on the Propel. That kind of makes sense, as the diameter of a "standard" bottle is sort of arbitrary.


----------



## Superdave3T (May 11, 2009)

YB1 said:


> I don't know if I understand what you're saying, the overall aerodynamic "package" is what I have to pedal, that means a bike WITH bottles. The Giant person was talking about the aerodynamic influence of water bottles on a frame in a tunnel and in the "real world". From the imagery I saw, it appears they are doing a "Kamm tail" Trek-style down tube. From my understanding of low speed aerodynamics, they attempt to "trick" the flow into acting like there's a longer foil present than actually exists. Scott has been using these sections too, blunted on the backside.
> 
> I also think i _may_ have seen longer, skinnier bottles on the Propel. That kind of makes sense, as the diameter of a "standard" bottle is sort of arbitrary.


We'll have the drag comparison available by the end of the week. The AR is in a different category than the Propel.

-Dave


----------



## jmorgan (Apr 13, 2012)

Dave, Is information going to be released on the stiffness of the AR? How does the stiffness of the AR compare to the F-series? Also what is the stiffness difference between the FRD AR and the regular AR?


----------



## YB1 (May 14, 2009)

I wish I could see how the bike would do with Xentis Mark1 or Mark2 triathlon wheels. I assume it would not be exactly the same as it performs with the Zipps I'm looking at on the FRD...


----------



## Mr. Clean (Jun 19, 2012)

Just watched your BikeRadar interview on YouTube Dave, well done! Well spoken, honest, informative. Really makes you believe in the Felt brand too.


----------



## woodys737 (Dec 31, 2005)

Mr. Clean said:


> Just watched your BikeRadar interview on YouTube Dave, well done! Well spoken, honest, informative. Really makes you believe in the Felt brand too.


+1. Awesome looking and by Dave's YouTube explanation, performing bike. I have an F series now but, this bike seems like it can everything the F series can do and substitute as a tt bike when the post is reversed to get the 78 degree STA...two bikes in one. Brilliant!


----------



## BillyWayne (Aug 1, 2011)

Mr. Clean said:


> Just watched your BikeRadar interview on YouTube Dave, well done! Well spoken, honest, informative. Really makes you believe in the Felt brand too.


Oh! Thats SuperdaveFelt?? I watched that video and never made the connection. Yes, very well done video. The spinning AR was mesmerizing. Dave talked about testing at various yaw angles. What yaw angles does Felt feel a rider is most likely to encounter?


----------



## Superdave3T (May 11, 2009)

jmorgan said:


> Dave, Is information going to be released on the stiffness of the AR? How does the stiffness of the AR compare to the F-series? Also what is the stiffness difference between the FRD AR and the regular AR?


Yes, we'll have the stiffness numbers of the AR vs. a host of other aero road bikes. The AR is very close to the F series in terms of absolute stiffness giving up about 6% in the head tube torsionally; a difference you can measure but unlikely to feel. BB stiffness is the same. We don't build our bicycles to be stiff at the high end and softer at the more affordable price points. We don't use glass fiber fillers or blends. All of our frames feature a mix of high modulus materials so the stiffness of the AR5 is equal to that of the AR FRD. Similarly, the bikes are made to be proportionally stiffer. A 61cm is going to be much stiffer than a 54cm for example.

-SD


----------



## Superdave3T (May 11, 2009)

BillyWayne said:


> Oh! Thats SuperdaveFelt?? I watched that video and never made the connection. Yes, very well done video. The spinning AR was mesmerizing. Dave talked about testing at various yaw angles. What yaw angles does Felt feel a rider is most likely to encounter?


Thanks for the comments on the video guys, I never know how those will work out and really don't do well on camera without some scripted marketing fluff to regurgitate.






In general on the surface of the Earth at WorldTour racing speeds you'll see ~9 degrees of yaw. Of course riding in the spring in the blustery MidWest or the mountains in late summer or pretty much every time I've been to Texas the winds can be much higher than "average" and my speed is far lower than the fast guys so it isn't uncommon to see 15, 20 and even 25 degrees routinely.

-SD


----------



## woodys737 (Dec 31, 2005)

Dave, given the AR is in the 5-600g of drag range how does my 2013 FC compare?


----------



## Superdave3T (May 11, 2009)

woodys737 said:


> Dave, given the AR is in the 5-600g of drag range how does my 2013 FC compare?


Just less than double the drag for an F-series frame:
View attachment 287132


-SD


----------



## woodys737 (Dec 31, 2005)

SuperdaveFelt said:


> Just less than double the drag for an F-series frame:
> View attachment 287132
> 
> 
> -SD


Thanks Dave. Assuming 45g=5W the resulting gains in speed (even at my less than 30mph range) I'm thinking for the style of riding I do it would be silly not to try the new AR. Ahhh, my wife is going to kill you. But I love you!


----------



## jpaschal01 (Jul 20, 2011)

SuperdaveFelt said:


> or pretty much every time I've been to Texas the winds can be much higher than "average"
> 
> -SD


Our mountain climbing in Texas = ride into the wind!


----------

