# How clean is a clean chain?



## SimonChik (Aug 3, 2010)

So today, I went out and got the chain cleaning kit. I cleaned it once with the degreaser, then i used a moist rag to get the degreaser off, then a dry rag. STILL black stuff coming off on my rag. Okay, So i did the process again, and Same thing, just not as dirty. Will it ever get to point where I would rub it with a rag and nothing shows up? Or is this normal and I have some kind of OCD.


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## andulong (Nov 23, 2006)

In my experience, no matter how clean the chain is, next time you ride, the "black stuff" will be back. I just lube and wipe till the chain looks nice and shiny.


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## SimonChik (Aug 3, 2010)

I didn't even ride and the "black stuff" was still there... The chain looks clean but not when its touched or wiped again.


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## jcaddyer (Jun 11, 2010)

I just used a chain cleaner for the first time and was amazed at the dirt I used to never be able to get. Same thing though, never came completely clean. After oiling the chain if the links move like they did when new I am happy.


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## wim (Feb 28, 2005)

SimonChik said:


> Will it ever get to point where I would rub it with a rag and nothing shows up? Or is this normal and I have some kind of OCD.


The black stuff is lube containing the filth it picked up, _as it is supposed to_. If you don't get black (or greyish with some lubes) stuff, it means the lube isn't working, or there is no lube at all.


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## Peanya (Jun 12, 2008)

I put my chain in a jar with mineral spirits and oil and shake. It comes out very clean.


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## Mike Prince (Jan 30, 2004)

'Clean enough' is how clean the chain should be.

Wipe it with a rag after every ride or two to get the bulk of the grit and grime off of it, don't overlube it and let the lube settle on the inside of the chain and the solvents evaporate from the outside and wipe it one more time before the first ride after lubing it.


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## Indyfan (Mar 30, 2004)

A truly clean chain is a lie. I once removed my chain frequently and immersed it in a hot paraffin bath until I realized my chains were wearing out much faster than they should because there was NO lube in the rollers. So I went back to Phil. Then I tried Triflow. It was OK but washed off much too quickly. Then I tried paraffin ver. 2.0 - wax lubes (White Litenin, Ice Wax, etc.) and quickly realized they were too similar to using straight paraffin with the added problem of build-up. At that point I settled on Prolink for a while. I used it for a long time partly because all my rides were pretty short and I lived in the desert southwest so not much rain hit my bike. Once I started riding longer rides again, I decided I wanted a lube that stayed there. I went back to Phil for a while. Then I found ChainL. It was what I really was looking for in a lube for the last 25 years. It actually lubricates the chain, it stays there far longer than I ever expected anything to, and it actually sets up tacky and relatively dry (when applied correctly...) Sorry about the testimonial - I'm not usually into that sort of thing. But that's been my experience at home and in the shop.

So the moral of this little story is to worry less about how sparkly clean your chain is as long as your chain is well lubed and wiped free of excess dirt/lube before rides.

Bob


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## Kuma601 (Jan 22, 2004)

Normal to have some and even new chains when wiped will leave marks on a rag. A super clean chain is time losing proposition. Wipe it down with your favorite lube and ride.


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## MR_GRUMPY (Aug 21, 2002)

Peanya said:


> I put my chain in a jar with mineral spirits and oil and shake. It comes out very clean.



+1

I used to use kerosene.,,,After the kerosene was dirty, I'd repeat.

Soap and hot water works fine, also......Just make sure you dry and soak in clean kerosene before lubing again.


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## kiroskka (Mar 9, 2008)

The best stuff I found at minimizing filth being picked up and thus keeping my chain looking clean is dupont multi-use dry wax lubricant. I use this lube on my motorcycle as well. It works very well...except when I get caught in the rain. 5 bucks a can at Lowes


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## TomBrooklyn (Mar 15, 2008)

amazon has the Dupont Dry Lube too...
http://www.amazon.com/Dupont-Multi-Use-Lubricant-oz-Spray/dp/B000GL19TY

webBikeWorld did a review of it...
http://www.webbikeworld.com/t2/motorcycle-chain-lube/dupont-teflon-chain-lube.htm


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## Eric_H (Feb 5, 2004)

My normal regime is to use a removable connector and swish the chain in a container with mineral spirits, rinse with pressurized water, dry, and then lube. Chains should be clean before lubrication, otherwise residual dirt will mix with the lube and effectively create a grinding paste.

When I do use a non-removable chain connection, I usually wipe the chain clean with a rag, lube liberally with Prolink or homebrew, rinse with pressurized water, dry, lube. 

I'm quite a chain cleaning freak, but I can't say my mileage is any better than they next guy's.


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## Fixed (May 12, 2005)

*grit*



SimonChik said:


> So today, I went out and got the chain cleaning kit. I cleaned it once with the degreaser, then i used a moist rag to get the degreaser off, then a dry rag. STILL black stuff coming off on my rag. Okay, So i did the process again, and Same thing, just not as dirty. Will it ever get to point where I would rub it with a rag and nothing shows up? Or is this normal and I have some kind of OCD.


I think the primary goal should be to get the grit out. Grit grinds away at the surfaces, destroying the chain. Appearance is secondary. Some lubes will blacken a chain, but it has nothing to do with being "dirty." 

I prefer to pull the chain off and soak it, rather than an on the bike chain cleaner gizmo. Those on the bike gizmos can work, but then can make a mess of everything else as you run the chain around throwing dirty degreaser everywhere.


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## Indyfan (Mar 30, 2004)

Fixed said:


> I think the primary goal should be to get the grit out. Grit grinds away at the surfaces, destroying the chain. Appearance is secondary. Some lubes will blacken a chain, but it has nothing to do with being "dirty."
> 
> I prefer to pull the chain off and soak it, rather than an on the bike chain cleaner gizmo. Those on the bike gizmos can work, but then can make a mess of everything else as you run the chain around throwing dirty degreaser everywhere.


The thing about soaking chains is that Shimano and most other quality chain mfrs recommend NOT to do this at all. Some, including Shimano, advocated it for a short while not long ago. But now they say it significantly shortens the life of the chain and we should only use the on-bike methods.

As for making a mess with the chain cleaning devices, you should probably turn the cranks a bit slower and put something like newspapers under your bike when cleaning the chain.

Bob


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## Kerry Irons (Feb 25, 2002)

*Not really*



Indyfan said:


> The thing about soaking chains is that Shimano and most other quality chain mfrs recommend NOT to do this at all. Some, including Shimano, advocated it for a short while not long ago. But now they say it significantly shortens the life of the chain and we should only use the on-bike methods.
> 
> As for making a mess with the chain cleaning devices, you should probably turn the cranks a bit slower and put something like newspapers under your bike when cleaning the chain.


If you use a decent chain lube, it will easily penetrate the inner surfaces of the chain. If you clean your chain and don't properly lube it then that would be a problem. Using the standard ProLink/home brew application procedure, you get great chain life.


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## pdh777 (Oct 7, 2005)

What Kerry says.

Further, my rule of thumb is that I apply Prolink - usually about 3 times. Usually after every - or every other ride. If the chain is still giving off black residue I repeat - if the chain is giving off opaque gray residue it is as clean as it is going to get with ProLInk


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## arc123 (Sep 17, 2005)

Fixed said:


> I think the primary goal should be to get the grit out. Grit grinds away at the surfaces, destroying the chain. Appearance is secondary. Some lubes will blacken a chain, but it has nothing to do with being "dirty."
> 
> I prefer to pull the chain off and soak it, rather than an on the bike chain cleaner gizmo. Those on the bike gizmos can work, but then can make a mess of everything else as you run the chain around throwing dirty degreaser everywhere.


How does this get the grit out of the chain? How do you know that you're not moving more grit deeper into the chain? Can you be sure you're getting all the solvent out of the rollers?

I've tried the soak method, shaking in a jar of solvent and the chain cleaner gizmos. Each method knocks the surface gunk off, but the grit deep in the chain remains. After you put your chain back on the bike and finish lubing it, try rolling the chain sideways between your fingers (rotating the side plates up and down). 

When I do this, I can always feel and hear the grit in the chain and its usually worse after cleaning the chain than it was before. I've given up on solvent for the most part. Pro Link and a rag seems to do at least as well with a lot less hassle.


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## Pieter (Oct 17, 2005)

arc123 said:


> How does this get the grit out of the chain? How do you know that you're not moving more grit deeper into the chain? Can you be sure you're getting all the solvent out of the rollers?
> 
> I've tried the soak method, shaking in a jar of solvent and the chain cleaner gizmos. Each method knocks the surface gunk off, but the grit deep in the chain remains. After you put your chain back on the bike and finish lubing it, try rolling the chain sideways between your fingers (rotating the side plates up and down).
> 
> When I do this, I can always feel and hear the grit in the chain and its usually worse after cleaning the chain than it was before. I've given up on solvent for the most part. Pro Link and a rag seems to do at least as well with a lot less hassle.


Yes, but this is not the final step. So far, you have loosened and dissolved the gunk with solvent. The chain is still full of grit. 
Now, grasp the chain in a folded sponge soaked in soap water (liberally soaped). Pull it through several times. Roll the chain sideways again and listen for grit - you will find it clean. This method works perfectly for me. 
Then finally rinse and dry (heat).


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## Fixed (May 12, 2005)

**really* clean*



Pieter said:


> Yes, but this is not the final step. So far, you have loosened and dissolved the gunk with solvent. The chain is still full of grit.
> Now, grasp the chain in a folded sponge soaked in soap water (liberally soaped). Pull it through several times. Roll the chain sideways again and listen for grit - you will find it clean. This method works perfectly for me.
> Then finally rinse and dry (heat).


As a variation of that, I recently needed to clean my gunked up mtb chain really well. I soaked it in citrus degreaser, then rinsed with water, then laid it out on cardboard and blasted it with a high pressure nozzle of compressed air. Amazing all the gunk that continued to come out with the air pressure.


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## Kerry Irons (Feb 25, 2002)

*Solvent dilution*



arc123 said:


> How does this get the grit out of the chain? How do you know that you're not moving more grit deeper into the chain? Can you be sure you're getting all the solvent out of the rollers?
> 
> I've tried the soak method, shaking in a jar of solvent and the chain cleaner gizmos. Each method knocks the surface gunk off, but the grit deep in the chain remains. After you put your chain back on the bike and finish lubing it, try rolling the chain sideways between your fingers (rotating the side plates up and down).
> 
> When I do this, I can always feel and hear the grit in the chain and its usually worse after cleaning the chain than it was before. I've given up on solvent for the most part. Pro Link and a rag seems to do at least as well with a lot less hassle.


The thin lube or solvent wash is "diluting" the grit - the stuff forms a slurry with the solvent and when you wipe off the slop, you're removing all that grit. If your chain is dirty, a second slovent/thin lube application will leave things pretty clean. The reason you can feel the grit is because you have thinned the lube that was inside the chain.

You don't need to worry about removing the solvent - it simply evaportates. As long as you use a thin lube like ProLink or home brew, you will leave actual lubricant inside the chain because the solvent penetrated every nook and cranny and left the lube behind when it evaporated. If you wait until the solvent has evaporated, you won't feel the grit because it will be "cushioned" by the now-thick lube.


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## Rokh Hard (Nov 25, 2013)

super shiney....until i greeeezzzze'r up again. :thumbsup:


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## Blue CheeseHead (Jul 14, 2008)

Oh, is it Thread Dredge Thursday already?


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## cxwrench (Nov 9, 2004)

Blue CheeseHead said:


> Oh, is it Thread Dredge Thursday already?


It kinda sneaks up on ya, doesn't it?


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## GlobalGuy (Jun 9, 2015)

Serious question. How do ancient threads like this get started up again? This isn't exactly the first time a thread years old suddenly springs to life again. For instance just the other day somewhere a thread about an Emonda and the choice of drivetrain was resurrected. The Emonda owner was trying to decide what drive train to choose. He made up his mind like a year ago, yet here is the thread popping up like he just asked his question a couple of days ago instead of last year.


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## Lombard (May 8, 2014)

GlobalGuy said:


> Serious question. How do ancient threads like this get started up again? This isn't exactly the first time a thread years old suddenly springs to life again. For instance just the other day somewhere a thread about an Emonda and the choice of drivetrain was resurrected. The Emonda owner was trying to decide what drive train to choose. He made up his mind like a year ago, yet here is the thread popping up like he just asked his question a couple of days ago instead of last year.


Possibly the "thread dredger" did a Google search on the subject and this link came up? I've been guilty of it in the past myself ;-)


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## Rokh Hard (Nov 25, 2013)

its SuperSecretSimilarThreadDialogueBox, (SSSTDB), i have offered a sample for your examination and review, pleasantly see below.....this little internet tip or "hack" as the geek would call out, is up there with forum rocket science, SHUSSH!!! dont tell anyone, its super secret!!!


as you scroll thru the forums at your place of employment, observe .... at the bottom of a thread there is a little box that sez "Similar Threads".....if one reads thru the similar threads, and sees something of interest, after-which Smart Forum Member (SFM) heretofore clicks on link to thread with sed hourly fingertip, revealing a golden opportunity for brilliant forum member to then offer his/her wisdom of God, reply!!! 

SHHHHHHHAAAAAAAZZZAMMMMM!!!! easyjaponeasy!! :thumbsup:


example of SuperSecretSimilarThreadDialogueBox, (SSSTDB) :thumbsup:


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## Blue CheeseHead (Jul 14, 2008)

Rokh Hard said:


> its SuperSecretSimilarThreadDialogueBox, (SSSTDB), i have offered a sample for your examination and review, pleasantly see below.....this little internet tip or "hack" as the geek would call out, is up there with forum rocket science, SHUSSH!!! dont tell anyone, its super secret!!!
> 
> 
> as you scroll thru the forums at your place of employment, observe .... at the bottom of a thread there is a little box that sez "Similar Threads".....if one reads thru the similar threads, and sees something of interest, after-which Smart Forum Member (SFM) heretofore clicks on link to thread with sed hourly fingertip, revealing a golden opportunity for brilliant forum member to then offer his/her wisdom of God, reply!!!
> ...


Similar threads are not present at the bottom of my browser, but that's okay cause I rarely have pearls of wisdom like:



> super shiney....until i greeeezzzze'r up again.


to make a thread resurrection worth while.


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## looigi (Nov 24, 2010)

Wet a piece of paper towel with solvent and wipe your chain until the paper towl is good and black. You'll find that piece of paper towel will now be attracted by a magnet. That's because all that black is actually worn metal from the chain.


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## ibericb (Oct 28, 2014)

looigi said:


> That's because all that black is actually worn metal from the chain.


So, why is it black? My the metal of chain isn't black.


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## Rokh Hard (Nov 25, 2013)

i drizzle this over the chain if im not removing it (quick, love you short time clean) and then reapply the lube -

















if i remove the chain, i do this (slow, love you long time clean) then reapply the lube - 















looigi said:


> Wet a piece of paper towel with solvent and wipe your chain until the paper towl is good and black. You'll find that piece of paper towel will now be attracted by a magnet. That's because all that black is actually worn metal from the chain.


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## Rokh Hard (Nov 25, 2013)

heres why....




ibericb said:


> So, why is it black? My the metal of chain isn't black.


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## Oxtox (Aug 16, 2006)

so much angst over a chain...

it's a wear item, wipe it with a rag often, lube it, and quit obsessing over it.


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## ibericb (Oct 28, 2014)

Rokh Hard said:


> i drizzle this over the chain if im not removing it (quick, love you short time clean) and then reapply the lube -


That's essentially mineral spirits. (see the MSDS). Probably save a buck or two buying OMS at your local Lowes or Home Depot. Same stuff.


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## ibericb (Oct 28, 2014)

Rokh Hard said:


> heres why....


The oil isn't black, the steel isn't black. So, please, tell me why "oil stained steel particles" are black?


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## Rokh Hard (Nov 25, 2013)

google it




ibericb said:


> The oil isn't black, the steel isn't black. So, please, tell me why "oil stained steel particles" are black?


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## Rokh Hard (Nov 25, 2013)

fruit home depot. fruit mineral spirits. this works just fine. :thumbsup:





ibericb said:


> That's essentially mineral spirits. (see the MSDS). Probably save a buck or two buying OMS at your local Lowes or Home Depot. Same stuff.


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## Rokh Hard (Nov 25, 2013)

uhhhh....cuz black chains matter?




ibericb said:


> So, why is it black? My the metal of chain isn't black.


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## Lombard (May 8, 2014)

Oxtox said:


> so much angst over a chain...
> 
> it's a wear item, wipe it with a rag often, lube it, and quit obsessing over it.


Hmmm. After being a member of RBR for over a year, I have noticed that there doesn't seem to be a single topic with more different opinions than chain lube. Not to say this isn't an important issue, but why the obsession with what is one of the cheapest components on a bike?


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## Rokh Hard (Nov 25, 2013)

Lombard said:


> Hmmm. After being a member of RBR for over a year, I have noticed that there doesn't seem to be a single topic with more different opinions than chain lube.


uhhhhh.......you gotta stick around another 4 days....it will be become humorously apparent that there are as many opinionated opinions about a topic as there are every single topic...by a multiple of 2001 Space Odyssey ....and then once the topic is flogged to a bloody mess....people get their nut by shoving it into some mindless subtopic, then the nazis with 20,000,001 posts in their hellokitty lunchbox, come in and start bullying and shoving their smelly egos around.....where shortly thereafter post-holy members will change the topic within a topic entirely, then back to the original topic.....its all about being right, and making the other person wrong.....its comes out unharnessed on the innernetz and the world wide webz.....oh....and dont forget the gaggling band of pantiewastes who come sniveling in and comment about "thread dredging".....holysweetbabygeezus.....get a job, get back to work or go play in the street....just do something. :thumbsup:

on average, this silly mess takes, on average 30mins (or less) to accomplish......the act is mildy entertaining, then quickly boring to watch....i have a gynormous "Ignore" list, its fun putting someone into the Ignore Box..........too bad it doesnt work in real time...."git in the box, twit" ..... poof!! they are gone from the face of the earth....but alas....someones stuck, sitting next to them, someplace, for 3 annoying mins.  




> Not to say this isn't an important issue, but why the obsession with what is one of the cheapest components on a bike?



like i said....its aint about the part, it aint about the process.....hell....it aint even about the bike....its about being RIGHT....and making you WRONG.....its the innernetZ bubs, enjoy!











ps - it all come together with this....understand this and the nature of people on the internet, anonymous behind a avatar and screen name and yer golden.....oh....and clean your chain and keep it clean.....its a measure of your character....the closest Rule that i can to qualify this is Rule #65 , Obey it.


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## Teuthis (Jul 29, 2015)

GlobalGuy said:


> Serious question. How do ancient threads like this get started up again? This isn't exactly the first time a thread years old suddenly springs to life again. For instance just the other day somewhere a thread about an Emonda and the choice of drivetrain was resurrected. The Emonda owner was trying to decide what drive train to choose. He made up his mind like a year ago, yet here is the thread popping up like he just asked his question a couple of days ago instead of last year.


Mebbe some threads are perennial, like grass and flowers and pretty things that pop out of the ground. I personally appreciate "old" topics being reevaluated in the light of new tech and knowledge. :thumbsup:


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## Rokh Hard (Nov 25, 2013)

Teuthis said:


> Mebbe some threads are perennial, like grass and flowers and pretty things that pop out of the ground. I personally appreciate "old" topics being reevaluated in the light of new tech and knowledge. :thumbsup:



:thumbsup: spot on Teuthis :thumbsup:

honestly, i dont give a fruit about "old" threads insofar as time goes...because pure ignorance is like a garden, it needs tending to, it knows no calendar and has no expiration date.


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## Teuthis (Jul 29, 2015)

+1 For the awesome metaphor, Rokh!

And there's always hope that a skillful epicurean can harvest from the Garden of Ignorance the fixins for a tasty salsa. Ole!


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