# TIME production location



## gunder (Jan 15, 2007)

Anybody know where TIME frames are produced? Do they have their own factory in France or are they sub-contracted out in Asia?


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## acid_rider (Nov 23, 2004)

*made in France*



gunder said:


> Anybody know where TIME frames are produced? Do they have their own factory in France or are they sub-contracted out in Asia?


I believe the frames/forks are made in or near Lyon in France. More on www.time-sport.com. Time make their own carbon to the best of my knowledge.

This is why I prefer Time (I have Time Edge) because they still make French bicycle frames in France. And I am not French, btw.

But does it make any difference? IMO, no, it does not. Asian made bicycle frames are ,most likely, as good if not better than those made in EU or USA. And often cheaper too. But I still do believe that each country is best making their products in their own backyard else there is no real difference when you buy.

Welcome to global market. Like it or not.


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## steel515 (Sep 6, 2004)

offtopic- What is the difference between the various Time frames? (ie ride, stiffness) Do they use proprietary or off the shelf parts (ie seatpost size)

Also I thought the major carbon fiber sources are based in Asia (toray, etc), so the material probably doesn't come from France?

Anyway if its made in France that probably explains the high cost?


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## Mapei (Feb 3, 2004)

Last year, Pro Cycling Magazine visited Time-Sport, as well as several other framebuilders including Trek, Serotta and Bianchi. In their report on Time, they say production for Time Frames is split betwen two towns southeast of Lyon, near the foothills of the Chartreuse Alps in France. The town of Montferrat is where Time weaves carbon fiber, vectran (which they call Vibraser) and kevlar threads into sheets, and forms those sheets into tubes, lugs, bottom bracket shells, etc. They assemble these components and finish the frames in the town of Charancieu. All Time Frames, from the cheapest to the most expensive, are made at these two places. The article does not say, however, where the actual threads are sourced. It does say, though, that every model is built 100 percent by hand and 100 percent in Europe.


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## gunder (Jan 15, 2007)

Good info guys, thanks!


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## Mapei (Feb 3, 2004)

The completist in my soul impels me to report that, according to an ebay seller, the carbon fiber threads on the Time frames are sourced in Germany. I have no idea if this is true, however.


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## velocipede (Feb 10, 2005)

Mapei said:


> The completist in my soul impels me to report that, according to an ebay seller, the carbon fiber threads on the Time frames are sourced in Germany. I have no idea if this is true, however.


2006 and 2007 frames were made with carbon fibe threads sourced from Germany(I am not that ebay seller.) I can't speak for other years.

It seems Trek is very interested in how Time manufactures their frames. I would put money on a integrated seat tube frame from Trek next year.


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## alex0220 (Aug 23, 2008)

Aren't TIME and GIANT the only companies that work with carbon from the beginning? What do you mean with sourced in Germany? How earlier in the production line is the carbon dealed directly in TIME and Giant facilities?


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## Jimbolaya (Jun 2, 2008)

Time also has a facility in Tunisia. I don't know what they build there... frames, pedals, shoes, stems, etc?


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## flakey (Feb 8, 2003)

TIME does not have anything in Tunisia

The majority of their frames are built in France

One or two of their lower end RTM frames (Pulse?) are made in Slovakia with the same exact materials and workmanship as the bikes built in France.

Time does have one frame built in China. It is the Speeder or Speeder S. It is not an RTM bike. It is a carbon fiber monocoque built by one of the factories that builds many other companies bikes, but I forgot the name.


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## alex0220 (Aug 23, 2008)

It is Look has a facility in Tunisia..


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## alex0220 (Aug 23, 2008)

And I think only Pulse is not made in France


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## velocipede (Feb 10, 2005)

velocipede said:


> It seems Trek is very interested in how Time manufactures their frames. I would put money on a integrated seat tube frame from Trek next year.


Sh!t I called that didn't I?
I shoulda went to Vegas after I posted that. This was the same year I called the World Champ in July.

Who dug up this old ass thread anyway?


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## Jimbolaya (Jun 2, 2008)

alex0220 said:


> It is Look has a facility in Tunisia..


Here I am all bass ackwards... Thanks for the correction.


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## Ibashii (Oct 23, 2002)

Since somebody dug up an ancient thread, might as well clear up the details: what Mapei posted over 2 years ago was absolutely correct at the time, but it's changed a bit, and a few other posts are a bit off. I live in Lyon, know people who work for Time, and here is the straight dope:

Outside of one frame, the monocoque Speeder (cheapest model that can be had for less than 2000 EUR with 105 stuff), all the others are assembled in one brand-new factory just outside of Bourgoin-Jaillieu, about 20 km east of me. I've been there: it's in a giant, brand new industrial business park surrounded by one of France's many biking heavens; they are in the process of constructing a retail store/test center on the model of their place on the Champs-Elysées in Paris, but instead of Longchamps for a test route riders will have the foothills of the Alps. It was supposed to open in September 2008, which is French for sometime in 2009. It's going to be really great. There are around 160 full-time employees there with real, indefinite work contracts, a coveted thing here that can cost companies dearly.

They also have a small center in Slovakia where the carbon fiber threads are sourced. This facility replaced the German facility shortly after Slovakia solidified its position within the EU...the Slovakian economy is several steps behind most of the EU and financially this isn't much different that outsourcing to Tunisia, which is what most French companies do. Although I don't know how to prove it, the people I know say that no frames are assembled in Slovakia. 

Except for the Speeder, most of the frames are marked "Made in Europe" (and always in English, which I find odd) as opposed to "Made in France," which is remarkably honest in a world where several major Italian companies buy whole frames from Asia, paint them on an assembly line in Italy and sell them as Italian-made bicycles. This is no place for a discussion about the relative quality of Asian-built frames, but that's dishonest in any case.


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## Manolis (Feb 16, 2009)

As i know,Speeder (a 12K carbon fibre frame that includes a Quickset headset) is the only model made in China according to Time standards and quality controls.

http://www.youtube.com/v/66ffKebNPbs


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## FondriestFan (May 19, 2005)

alex0220 said:


> And I think only Pulse is not made in France


No, the other guys are right. It's the Speeder that's not made in France.


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## toonraid (Sep 19, 2006)

I may be wrong on this but I think European Union legislation states that they have to say "Made in Europe" ... furthermore if a product has some extra work done on it in Europe which increases its value by 60% it could be stated that its made in Europe - so a frame could be made in China for say 500 dollars and then painted, labeled, boxed etc for 300 dollars so that the finished product will have a cost price of 800 dollars and then sold as made in Europe for 1600 dollars.


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## toonraid (Sep 19, 2006)

Of course everyone knows that Time frames are made in Europe but as someone said there are frames flying around with Made in Italy stickers and I am sure the stickers are made in Italy!


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## Ibashii (Oct 23, 2002)

toonraid said:


> I may be wrong on this but I think European Union legislation states that they have to say "Made in Europe" ... furthermore if a product has some extra work done on it in Europe which increases its value by 60% it could be stated that its made in Europe - so a frame could be made in China for say 500 dollars and then painted, labeled, boxed etc for 300 dollars so that the finished product will have a cost price of 800 dollars and then sold as made in Europe for 1600 dollars.


Yeah, this is exactly the kind of crap that pisses me off about the EU: first they say big things about what rules they're going to make, then they actually write confusing, watered-down versions of these rules so as to not upset anyone, and then do almost nothing to enforce them. I'm all for a stronger EU, but get some cajones already. 

Anybody who wants an example of this that doesn't involve dishonest Italian bikemakers--not to name names but one of them starts with a B and ends with an I--should look up the current "discussion" taking place between France and Brussels about the blatantly illegal French government monopoly on sports gambling via the public company and pro cycling sponsor Française de Jeux. It's like having a parent that threatens to punish a child over and over without ever doing it...

...but I digress: Time is a wonderful company that does things right and makes a good profit while they're at it .


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## toonraid (Sep 19, 2006)

I think people are too hung-up on where the damn bike is made what's important is quality, after-sales service and ride characteristics vs price. Time is a great make not because its made in France but because they get the job done right, on the other hand Giant is crap not coz they are made in China but because they obviously place price over quality.


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## Jimbolaya (Jun 2, 2008)

Yet we hear time and time again that the quality bikes are made in France, Wisconson, or California because the company couldn't provide the quality control in a chinese factory. That seems to be the excuse anyway. Maybe it's lack of skilled and educated workers. Maybe it's communication barriers. Maybe it's just being too lazy to make it work overseas. There are exceptions, but it seems that companies only trust outside manufacturing to the lower end bikes. 




toonraid said:


> I think people are too hung-up on where the damn bike is made what's important is quality, after-sales service and ride characteristics vs price. Time is a great make not because its made in France but because they get the job done right, on the other hand Giant is crap not coz they are made in China but because they obviously place price over quality.


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## alex0220 (Aug 23, 2008)

TIME is honest about their products, and so is Colnago
Can't say the same about Pinarello and the B you cited (I have one of their "Handmade in Italy" frames.... got really pissed off when I found the truth....)
That's why I can't wait to get my TIME in July when I'll go to ride the L'Etape du Tour... It is my dream bike..... Just have to decide between VXRS and VRS Vibraser..... Hard choice...


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## Maverick (Apr 29, 2004)

toonraid said:


> I think people are too hung-up on where the damn bike is made what's important is quality, after-sales service and ride characteristics vs price. Time is a great make not because its made in France but because they get the job done right, on the other hand Giant is crap not coz they are made in China but because they obviously place price over quality.


well, i think Giant makes great bikes  

cheers


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## Ibashii (Oct 23, 2002)

alex0220 said:


> TIME is honest about their products, and so is Colnago
> Can't say the same about Pinarello and the B you cited (I have one of their "Handmade in Italy" frames.... got really pissed off when I found the truth....)
> That's why I can't wait to get my TIME in July when I'll go to ride the L'Etape du Tour... It is my dream bike..... Just have to decide between VXRS and VRS Vibraser..... Hard choice...


Are you going to go to Paris and do the Longchamp test ride on both?? That would be sweet.


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## toonraid (Sep 19, 2006)

Jimbolaya said:


> Yet we hear time and time again that the quality bikes are made in France, Wisconson, or California because the company couldn't provide the quality control in a chinese factory. That seems to be the excuse anyway. Maybe it's lack of skilled and educated workers. Maybe it's communication barriers. Maybe it's just being too lazy to make it work overseas. There are exceptions, but it seems that companies only trust outside manufacturing to the lower end bikes.


That's what you are led to believe but Renault, GM, Fiat etc have very poor quality record in comparison to their Asian rivals - besides Asia (check back of your Iphone - China). A lot of manufacturing firms have moved part or all their manufacturing operation to China where they use a western skeleton (head of manufacturing, maintenance, QC, etc) and state of art German machinery and locals for the masses. Look made there old 555 range and the new 566 range as well as their MTB range in China and you can't fault their quality so if you want it done properly in Asia its possible. But it depends on the operation - if you look at the frame market - the monocoque structures seem to be made in Asia and the lug/tube ones in Europe (ala Colnago upper range or Look 585/595) I guess it has something to do with type of skill and cost price.


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## toonraid (Sep 19, 2006)

Mapei said:


> The completist in my soul impels me to report that, according to an ebay seller, the carbon fiber threads on the Time frames are sourced in Germany. I have no idea if this is true, however.


Carbon fibre threads are indeed made in Germany who along with Japan are the leading suppliers.


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## toonraid (Sep 19, 2006)

Maverick said:


> well, i think Giant makes great bikes
> 
> cheers


A few of my friends are sponsored by Giant and they have been going through 2/3 frames per year (keeps breaking). Their top of the line TCR was way too flexy in 2006, the 2007 model was made a bit stiffer but with added weight and the freshly released 2009 model has just been recalled due to a problem with fork design which could cause breakage ... http://www.cyclingnews.com/tech.php?id=/tech/2009/news/01-15

And all these problems are with top of the range line ........


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## ewitz (Sep 11, 2002)

Personally I could care less where my VXRS was made.

All I know is that Time could teach Trek, Specialized, Giant or probably any other manufacturer how to build a carbon race bike. Light and strong without resorting to some grotesquely oversized tube shapes. Still looks like a classic bike even with the ISP.


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## alex0220 (Aug 23, 2008)

Ibashii said:


> Are you going to go to Paris and do the Longchamp test ride on both?? That would be sweet.


Sorry for my English but what "do the Longchamp" means?


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## Maverick (Apr 29, 2004)

ewitz said:


> Personally I could care less where my VXRS was made.
> 
> All I know is that Time could teach Trek, Specialized, Giant or probably any other manufacturer how to build a carbon race bike. Light and strong without resorting to some grotesquely oversized tube shapes. till looks like a classic bike even with the ISP.


yep..i couldn't agree more with what you wrote.
TIME is classic looking bike even with the ISP..

that's one reason why i'm still holding on to my TIME VXRS ULTEAM although it's more than 2yrs now..i love it! TIME's build quality is second to none, their attention to detail is simply marvelous.

i will post some articles (via picture files) from a Procycling pullout approx 1-2yrs ago. the pullout has a complete review of Time's manufacturing facility in France. 
should be a good read for everyone.

btw, for all TIME fans out there, please check out TIME SPORT INTERNATIONAL on Facebook. 
some interesting videos on TIME's unique manufacturing process, as well as TIME's new TIME VIP ULTEAM frameset release information.

cheers.


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## tofumann (Jun 17, 2008)

toonraid said:


> That's what you are led to believe but Renault, GM, Fiat etc have very poor quality record in comparison to their Asian rivals - besides Asia (check back of your Iphone - China). A lot of manufacturing firms have moved part or all their manufacturing operation to China where they use a western skeleton (head of manufacturing, maintenance, QC, etc) and state of art German machinery and locals for the masses. Look made there old 555 range and the new 566 range as well as their MTB range in China and you can't fault their quality so if you want it done properly in Asia its possible. But it depends on the operation - if you look at the frame market - the monocoque structures seem to be made in Asia and the lug/tube ones in Europe (ala Colnago upper range or Look 585/595) I guess it has something to do with type of skill and cost price.


Amen. They don't mind building stuff with quality cuz they are capable of doing so. However, most companies rather have lower cost(s) instead of quality. Brembo is making some of their products in China....i've seen them and touched them in the factory...believe me...they are just as nice as the ones from Italy(europe ).


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## toonraid (Sep 19, 2006)

Who is Brembo?


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## Ibashii (Oct 23, 2002)

alex0220 said:


> Sorry for my English but what "do the Longchamp" means?


Sorry...mentioned it in an earlier post in this thread, but it was sort of buried and reasonable to miss. The Longchamp Hippodrome (horse racing track) is about the only place in all of Paris to ride a road bike unmolested by some of the worst and angriest drivers in the world. When you test ride a Time from their showroom on the Champs-Elysées, this is where they tell you to go. I've never done it, but everyone says it's something to experience: a big, wide road around the horse track filled with everything from uber-Freds to professionals pacelining at 50+ km/h.


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## Jimbolaya (Jun 2, 2008)

toonraid said:


> Who is Brembo?


Brembo makes brakes for cars and motorcycles. 

Some really good stuff. Some not so much. My Ducati SS had fantastic Brembo's. I also tried a Monster that had really "budget" brembo's


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## Ibashii (Oct 23, 2002)

toonraid said:


> Carbon fibre threads are indeed made in Germany who along with Japan are the leading suppliers.



According to Time's website, their entire carbon production facility is now in Slovakia, although it was in Germany until a couple years ago. No frames or other parts, just carbon preparation.

If you drive really fast on the Autobahn and ignore speed limits in Austria and Switzerland you could get that carbon here in less than 10 hours.


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## toonraid (Sep 19, 2006)

That makes sense as a lot of the west european textile manufacturers have been moving their plants to east european countries to take advantage of cheaper overheads.


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## chavez (Jan 20, 2009)

For what it's worth, the Time Speeder framesets have been showing up occasionally on Bonktown. I really dig the look of most the Time frames but the French built ones are right up outta my price range - Eventually I'd like to do a custom build with a Speeder frame to see how it turns out, but it's a couple months down the road.


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