# Campy Chorus 11, 10 or SRAM Red?



## jut8 (Oct 11, 2006)

I have a new frame coming in on monday, it is a Specialized Tarmac Pro Frame. I am going to the shop in about an hour or so to order my build kit for the bike and I am really up in the air about what to get. I work part time at a local shop and the shop owner seems to pushing the SRAM Red on me, I have ridden it, and i do prefer the SRAM over the Durace I have ridden in the past.

We are not a big Campy dealer by any means, and no one in the area really seems to be riding campy, but i have alway been intrigued by the Campy offerings, but i have yet to ride a Campy bike. It seems that the best possible build kit i would be be able to afford from them is a complete Chorus 11 build kit, but i could swing a few extra $$ for the Record 11 Shifters, along with the Chorus build kit and not break the bank, however this does put me about $500 over the cost of a complete SRAM Red kit. OR i could go with the current Chorus 10 speed to save some money, but again that puts me right back at the SRAM Red price. I know i might get some bias opinions because this is the Campy forum, but if you can offer an honest suggestion, that would be great.

This road bike will be the one i am riding for quite a few years to come, so i want to make sure i am making the right choice. Thanks in advance!


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## C-40 (Feb 4, 2004)

*info..*

If you buy any 2009 Campy product from a US dealer you'll pay close to twice the price that it would cost, purchased from Europe. As an example, a complete Chorus 11 group can be had for $1050, a Record group for $1500 and SR for $1800.

www.comobike.com

Look down the page, there is lots of discussion about the pricing issue.


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## BikeProf (May 9, 2006)

If I were getting Chorus 11, I wouldn't spend the extra money on Record shifters. The Chorus shifters are nearly identical to the Record and they cost less. 

And like C-40 said, the prices in Europe are a lot better.


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## C-40 (Feb 4, 2004)

*yes...*

In fact, Chorus shifters are identical, except for the lettering on the brake lever.


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## natedg200202 (Sep 2, 2008)

I agree with the post above - upgrading the shifters from Chorus to Record will gain you nothing but a lighter wallet. If you are going to upgrade anything, make it the brake calipers - decent weight savings for the $.


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## jut8 (Oct 11, 2006)

Wow, i REALLY wish i would have posted this up sooner, I went to the shop and ordered up a Red Group, it should be in monday, i saved about $200 when compared to the Chorus group from comobike.com, but i would have much rather paid the extra $200 to get the Chorus if i would have known/done more research before I ordered, i guess thats what i get for being impulsive. I just saw the dealer cost in the US for the Chorus and didnt even imagine there would be that much savings by ordering overseas.


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## fabsroman (Jul 14, 2006)

I spent 6 months in 2006 researching my bike build, starting with the frame and going from there. I ended up finding Campy Record 10 at 11speed.com for $1,000 and I got a Colnago Cristallo for $2,400 delivered. I saved a ton of money by being really patient. Bought the Cinelli Ram post and Ram bars on e-bay and saved a ton there too, but it took a while to win those auctions for cheap. Patience is a virtue, especially when you have to live with the choice for a while. Live and learn.


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## bemmis (Sep 14, 2008)

C-40 said:


> In fact, Chorus shifters are identical, except for the lettering on the brake lever.


if i recall, the record shifter have bearings in the shifter pivots rather than bushings. that is the only differance other than the lettering.


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## Guest (Dec 19, 2008)

bemmis said:


> if i recall, the record shifter have bearings in the shifter pivots rather than bushings. that is the only differance other than the lettering.



That was what was released in literature by Campy but it doesn't appear to be so at this time.


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## Chris Keller (May 19, 2008)

*You should have gotten Chorus 11spd!!*

Campagnolo 11 spd stuff is FANTASTIC...I just received my Super Record group from Comobike (fantastic company with great service). This stuff is amazing. I can't wait to get it on my 595 Ultra. My wife even said that the Super Record components look like artistic sculptures. 

The new levers seem like they will be really...perfect! 

Let us know how you like the SRAM components.


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## jut8 (Oct 11, 2006)

Now i am really thinking about ordering up a Campy Chorus or Centaur group from como bike and just selling off the new SRAM parts, maybe i will post up an ad here on RBR today. Just wondering though, does comobike sell the 11 speed chain tool i am hearing that I need, and if so, how much is that going to set me back? I tried searching for it on there site, but I could only find the 10 speed chain tool that was around 87 dollars.


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## C-40 (Feb 4, 2004)

*ask...*

You may need to ask them. I got mine from Ribble in the UK for about $145. It's not cheap, but there is no other good way to join the chain. All connectors links now available fit wider 10 speed chains and will be a very sloppy fit. Just be sure to read the instructions and be sure that you know for sure that the chain length is correct. You only get one chance to get it right.


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## C-40 (Feb 4, 2004)

*nope...*



bemmis said:


> if i recall, the record shifter have bearings in the shifter pivots rather than bushings. that is the only differance other than the lettering.


Some of the literature says that, but the spare parts PDF shows bearings on ALL models, even Veloce. I've had 2009 Centaur levers disassembled and they have bearings in them.


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## jut8 (Oct 11, 2006)

So i am not racing, just using the bike for training purposes, and a couple of century lenght charity rides throughout the year (i race XC and DH MTB) is there much justification for going to a Chorus group, or will i be more than happy with the new Carbon Centaur?


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## mriddle (Nov 16, 2005)

*11 speed chain tool*

Is a must.
I got mine from totalcycling.com for $150.
The tool is as impressive as the 11 speed components!


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## jut8 (Oct 11, 2006)

Also, how long does your orders usually take to arrive to your door in the US from overseas?


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## fabsroman (Jul 14, 2006)

Whenever I order from ProBikeKit in England, it has taken less than a week to get the parts. Bellatisport is anywhere between 3 business days and 10 business days. 11speed.com was less than a week. Honestly, I have been really surprised with how fast packages get here from Europe. Of course, I am on the east coast too, so that might help.

As far as the SRAM Red is concerned, is there any way for you to just cancel the order with your LBS and tell them that you changed your mind? That is the route I would try to go first.

No idea about the chain tool, but I think C-40 can help you in that regard.


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## jut8 (Oct 11, 2006)

I got a response back from comobikes.com they have the chain tool, and it runs 120 euros from them. They also said they have the Chorus 11 instock, but i may just consider the Centaur 10 for what I am doing. 

As for the saying i changed my mind to the LBS, I kinda work part time at the shop, and the owner placed the order special for me, and it shipped yesterday, he is the type of guy that would be upset if I asked him to send it back because I didnt do all of my research. So I did put a for sale ad up here on RBR for the parts new in the box for a best offer price, I dont want to make money on them, i just want what i paid for them, so we will see what happens, if they dont sell, ill try to get rid of them on ebay. As for now, I guess i will take a few more hours to think about what group to get, then put it on my credit card until the SRAM stuff sells then ill pay it off.


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## Americano (Dec 20, 2001)

*Yes they sell the chain tool*



jut8 said:


> Now i am really thinking about ordering up a Campy Chorus or Centaur group from como bike and just selling off the new SRAM parts, maybe i will post up an ad here on RBR today. Just wondering though, does comobike sell the 11 speed chain tool i am hearing that I need, and if so, how much is that going to set me back? I tried searching for it on there site, but I could only find the 10 speed chain tool that was around 87 dollars.


I orderd a complete Chorus 11 speed group, plus chain tool and Eurus wheels from comobike about 10 days ago. It still hasn't arrived yet, but they do sell most everything you might need at good prices. 

The one problem I've had with them is they aren't exactly truthful about what they have in stock. I specifically told them not to include certain things in my order if they didn't have them on hand, and they did this anyway and delayed my shipment for over a week. I'm still kinda pissed about this and won't be able to build up my new bike 'till after xmas, and still didn't get all of the components that I had ordered from them. Still, I saved over $1000 by going with comobike instead of buying all that stuff here in the US.


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## maxima (Jul 26, 2008)

*Get the Campy*

I have been cycling for 25 years......jabe been buying from Europe (UK, Italy and Germany) for at least the past 13 to 14 years. Brought at least 28 sets of parts(complete build for Mtn or Road) from Europe. I still go back to "Comobike" as being the most reliable source for Italian branded parts.:thumbsup: 

I just got the Super Record 11 -speed from them last month, while a FEW OTHERS promise the groupset, asked me to pay thru credit card and after 1 to 2 mths, still did not ship me the parts!!!!!! And I've to ask them for refunds........you did want to know how "slow" these shops response to refund It takes 6 weeks!!!!! 

Go to "Comobike"........you will not be sorry.....

As for SRAM? Why you want to pay big money for a Taiwan engineer and made product?

Imagine the Mesarati, Lexus, Porsche and a Hyundai is price the same.......WHICH ONE WILL YOU PICK? The answer is straiht forward..........anything BUT a Hyundai.....

SRAM is not even near a Shimano nor Campy............





C-40 said:


> If you buy any 2009 Campy product from a US dealer you'll pay close to twice the price that it would cost, purchased from Europe. As an example, a complete Chorus 11 group can be had for $1050, a Record group for $1500 and SR for $1800.
> 
> www.comobike.com
> 
> Look down the page, there is lots of discussion about the pricing issue.


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## cww180 (Aug 31, 2008)

Why not just give the Red a chance, by all reviews it seems to be a very nice group.


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## tom_h (May 6, 2008)

November 2008 was a good "sweet spot" for buying products priced in Euros ... the high-$1.20s per Euro exchange rate was the best (for Americans) since summer 2007. 

Just in the last couple weeks, the dollar has weakened to about $1.40 per euro, effectively making european products 10% more expensive :-(
.
.
.


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## bemmis (Sep 14, 2008)

tom_h said:


> November 2008 was a good "sweet spot" for buying products priced in Euros ... the high-$1.20s per Euro exchange rate was the best (for Americans) since summer 2007.
> 
> Just in the last couple weeks, the dollar has weakened to about $1.40 per euro, effectively making european products 10% more expensive :-(
> .
> ...



i ordered all my stuff on 11-22 from totalcycling.com. lucky me.


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## fabsroman (Jul 14, 2006)

I was billed for my C50 at the end of October, so I got a pretty good exchange rate. I think it saved me $100 or more from the time I ordered it on September 9th.


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## jut8 (Oct 11, 2006)

Ok, so I am getting ready to pull the trigger on either an 09 Centaur Group, or an 09 Chorus 11 speed group, probably in the next day or so. What tools will i need to complete this build? I realize if i get the 11 speed i am going to the uber expensive chain tool (one of the reasons i am leaning toward the centaur), but up until this point I have only the tools from shimano/sram. I am going going to need a Crank/BB tool, cassette lock ring tool or anything else?


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## Guest (Dec 21, 2008)

Depends:

The cassette lockrings are different, you can kinda make them work but I would get a Campy specific tool. 

For the bottom bracket/cups if you have the tools for the current shimano bottom bracket they work with ultra torque cups see:

http://www.parktool.com/products/category.asp?cat=25

You need BBT-19 (or the equivalent) if you're going to torque the UT cups to spec, BBT-9 (or equivalent) is enough if using loctite or just removing the cups.

For the UT cranks Campy makes a tool that works well for tightening the bolt but any hex head that size can be used, an extension for a ratchet will probably be required if not using the campy tool.

For the 09 Chorus you also need a Torx head wrench (25, IIRC) to tighten the levers to the handlebars, pretty sure 09 Centaur needs the same. The chainring bolts are also Torx head but you probably don't need to do anything with them initially.


And you already hit on the chain tool.


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## bemmis (Sep 14, 2008)

jut8 said:


> Ok, so I am getting ready to pull the trigger on either an 09 Centaur Group, or an 09 Chorus 11 speed group, probably in the next day or so. What tools will i need to complete this build? I realize if i get the 11 speed i am going to the uber expensive chain tool (one of the reasons i am leaning toward the centaur), but up until this point I have only the tools from shimano/sram. I am going going to need a Crank/BB tool, cassette lock ring tool or anything else?


you will probably need a lockring, at least if you get a cassette starting with 12t. yes, you will need the lockring tool. Most lbs's have them for something like ~$9. if you are going with a campagnolo crankset you do not need tools, only the appropriate allen wrench.


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## Guest (Dec 22, 2008)

bemmis said:


> you will probably need a lockring, at least if you get a cassette starting with 12t. yes, you will need the lockring tool. Most lbs's have them for something like ~$9. if you are going with a campagnolo crankset you do not need tools, only the appropriate allen wrench.



For 2009 all the cassettes come with a lockring, so as long as the poster gets 09 Centaur or 09 Chorus he won't need to buy a lockring.

As for not needing tools for the crankset that assumes he can hand tighten the cups by hand which is not a very good assumption to make, it also means he is going to use loctite and wait the appropriate amount of time to cure.


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## bemmis (Sep 14, 2008)

kytyree said:


> Depends:
> 
> The cassette lockrings are different, you can kinda make them work but I would get a Campy specific tool.
> 
> ...



yeah i totally don't understand why they use torx.


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## tom_h (May 6, 2008)

bemmis said:


> yeah i totally don't understand why they use torx.


Torx and Torx-Plus are superior fastener designs, compared to hex socket. Torx heads are less likely to strip-out or cam-out.


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## fabsroman (Jul 14, 2006)

The only special tools (i.e., other than Allen wrenches and Torx wrenches) that I need to build a bike out of Campy, are the cassette lock ring tool and a BB cup wrench. Take note that the correct Allen wrench for the BB installation is rather large, and not extremely common. In a pinch, I think a T45 Torx bit can be used in lieu of an Allen wrench for the crank installation, but don't quote me on the exact Torx size. I know I used a Torx bit until I bought the correct size Allen wrench socket but am a little fuzzy on the exact size.

Obviously, if you will be installing the headset yourself, you will need a headset press and a crown race installer.

That should pretty much take care of everything.


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## C-40 (Feb 4, 2004)

*sure...*

You will need a Park BBT-19 BB tool, a 10mm hex socket for the UT crank fixing bolt, a Campy lockring tool and a torque wrench to use with each of these tools.


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## rhino11 (Jan 8, 2009)

*Comobike*

I have had success with comobike for the 11sp Chorus group. That is except for the $142usd fee paid to the UPS courier at delivery. VAT is the response from Milan, anyone else have this issue and is there a refund path to research?


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## fabsroman (Jul 14, 2006)

Do you live in the US? If so, you are not subject to VAT, but US Customs Duty. However, there is no duty on a components groupo because each of the individual components are duty free. There just isn't a category in the duty guide for groupos so they sometimes put the general 10% duty on it for miscellaneous bike parts.

Search on UPS US Customs and duty under my username and you will see how I handled it. First thing I did was attempt to resolve the issue with UPS that day. After that was unsuccessful, I immediately put a stop payment on the check the next day. I still tried to work on resolving it, but finding the right person was next to impossible, until UPS sent me an invoice for the charge. I called the number on the invoice and things start to get rolling a little better. It took a couple of months to get the thing resolved, but it was $300+ and I wasn't willing to let it go. Mind you, while it took that long to get it resolved, most of it dealt with the time in which UPS and US Customs addressed the matter, and not the amount of work I had to do.


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## rhino11 (Jan 8, 2009)

thanks for the quick response.

If you have it, what was the number at UPS -- to save the runaround.

Cheers.


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## fabsroman (Jul 14, 2006)

I saved everything in a manila folder, but I don't know where it is off the top of my head. I'll try to look for it later tonight. Right now, I have to hit the road because I have to be somewhere in 30 minutes. If I forget, send me a PM.


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