# powder coating steel NOT recommended?



## blueutopia (Jul 25, 2008)

Hi,
I was talking to well respected steel frame builder who tells me he does NOT recommend
powder coating of steel frames. Hes says it very porous on steel, and over time it creates
"spider veins" on the finish. He much prefers a good quality primer/paint job for steel.

As anyone had bad experiences with powder coating on steel frames after 10 years or so??


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## rx-79g (Sep 14, 2010)

I don't know about spider veins, but powder coating is one of the most effective corrosion preventing treatments for steel. So any claim about it must be more about aesthetics than utility. 

Regular paint does look better. Until it chips.


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## SilverStar (Jan 21, 2008)

And there are a few custom steel frame builders who send their frames out for powdercoat rather than wet painting. Properly cured, powdercoating is anything but porous on ANY material that can survive the ovens.


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## ericTheHalf (Apr 5, 2008)

I have had a powder coated steel cyclocross bike for 10 years. That includes time racing in the rain and mud and it still looks great.


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## cxwrench (Nov 9, 2004)

sounds like the 'well respected frame builder' is pretty clueless about powder coating. obviously he's never seen anything these guys have done...http://spectrumpowderworks.com/spectrumindex.php


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## CougarTrek (May 5, 2008)

cxwrench said:


> sounds like the 'well respected frame builder' is pretty clueless about powder coating. obviously he's never seen anything these guys have done...http://spectrumpowderworks.com/spectrumindex.php


I have....
it started flaking off within 2 weeks...
and then they acted like I was an idiot for expecting a decent job...

I put them on par with Comcast in product quality and customer service.


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## cxwrench (Nov 9, 2004)

CougarTrek said:


> I have....
> it started flaking off within 2 weeks...
> and then they acted like I was an idiot for expecting a decent job...
> 
> I put them on par with Comcast in product quality and customer service.


that's funny, i've seen literally dozens of paint jobs from them, and they have been better quality than any other powder i've seen. but i guess bad experiences happen. why did they think you were an idiot for expecting a good job? was there some problem w/ the frame you had them paint? from your post it almost sounds like they warned you there would be problems...


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## Peter P. (Dec 30, 2006)

I had a frame built by Rock Lobster. The frame was powdercoated and powdercoat cleared by his local vendor.

Since it was a mountain bike, it was quickly subject to abuse, and the clearcoat was scratched after a couple rides. Well, after that, the clearcoat began to flake and peel severely, but ONLY from the fork. You could actually pick at it and pull more off. Paul at Rock Lobster didn't hesitate to correct the problem, and his vendor re-cleared the frame at no charge. I haven't had a problem since.

I had a road frame that suffered from severe rust. I sent it to Cyclart roughly 10 years ago to have it powdercoated. I explained to them I didn't care if they blew a hole in the tubes while removing the old paint; I'd just consider the frame a loss and move on. Well, apparently they didn't remove the rust well enough because it's been working its way through the powdercoat for years, even though I routinely wiped the frame down after sweaty rides.


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## ZoSoSwiM (Mar 7, 2008)

I do believe my KHS Solo One is powder coated. It's a sick looking bike and I've abused it plenty.. no problems with the finish..


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## bigbill (Feb 15, 2005)

I have a new custom steel at Spectrum right now.


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## GirchyGirchy (Feb 12, 2004)

I've heard of flaking issues as well, mostly on motorcycle stuff.


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## Bob Ross (Apr 18, 2006)

bigbill said:


> I have a new custom steel at Spectrum right now.



I recently took delivery of a steel Carl Strong that was powder coated by Spectrum Powderworks. No idea what it'll look like in 10 years, but it is freakin' _gorgeous_ now!


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## Scooper (Mar 4, 2007)

BF thread on powder coating

A quality automotive clear coat over a powder coated finish mitigates the porosity of powder coating. You wind up with a tough, durable finish that will look great for a very long time while providing an effective moisture barrier to protect the steel.


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## jackblack (Feb 1, 2007)

I have a Surly 1x1 that is powder coated. It looks pretty bad and does have the spider veins that the builder referenced. the bike has been abused for sure, but the paint is toast.


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## laffeaux (Dec 12, 2001)

I have powder coated frames that are well over 10 years old that still look great. However, yes, under the powder coat I'm sure that there is the spidered effect of oxidation. It's not a huge issue unless you want a "clear" powder coat, then it it will look really bad.

Here's a really good write up from a knowledgeable builder and painter about the differences between powder and wet paint and how they protect the tubes:

http://groovycycleworks.blogspot.com/2010/01/raw-finishes-and-seasons-worth-of.html


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## CougarTrek (May 5, 2008)

cxwrench said:


> that's funny, i've seen literally dozens of paint jobs from them, and they have been better quality than any other powder i've seen. but i guess bad experiences happen. why did they think you were an idiot for expecting a good job? was there some problem w/ the frame you had them paint? from your post it almost sounds like they warned you there would be problems...


Nothing wrong with the frame. Frame is a custom Spot and Spot uses Spectrum basically exclusively.

They messed up the color the first time. Chalk that up to miscommunication somewhere amongst the 4 or 5 parties involved, no biggie.

"Repaired" the issue by redoing it without first removing the incorrect job (or, it seems, properly prepping it). Not only could I see the original (wrong) color around the edges from day 1 (bad masking) the top layer started chipping/flaking almost immediately.

I obviously confronted them about this and their line was that it was industry standard and their workmanship was fine and to basically GTF over it. (my bike shop didn't believe this line any more than I did and they made it right with me without the involvement of Spectrum)

Incidentally the Spot that came into the shop within a month of mine has the same issue for the same reason (Two coats on a brand new frame, didn't stick.). 

I've seen beautiful work out of their shop as well, but heaven forbid something not come out beautiful because then you are SOL.


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## rx-79g (Sep 14, 2010)

CougarTrek said:


> Nothing wrong with the frame. Frame is a custom Spot and Spot uses Spectrum basically exclusively.
> 
> They messed up the color the first time. Chalk that up to miscommunication somewhere amongst the 4 or 5 parties involved, no biggie.
> 
> ...


How was Spot okay with this?


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## CougarTrek (May 5, 2008)

rx-79g said:


> How was Spot okay with this?


Honestly once the shop made it right for me I dropped the whole issue since Spectrum would only really talk to the shop and I felt the shop had done enough to not have to deal with it. Plus at that point I didn't want Spectrum touching the bike again, so it really wasn't worth the fight to me personally at the time.

I never dealt with Spot directly and have no idea how they feel about it or if they even know my paint is flaking (they did know about the color mix up and were helpful in getting that resolved for me, well, they at least thought it was resolved). I suspect if Spot knows Spot isn't thrilled, but like I said, things were taken care of in my mind (not by Spectrum) so I dropped it.


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## rx-79g (Sep 14, 2010)

CougarTrek said:


> Honestly once the shop made it right for me I dropped the whole issue since Spectrum would only really talk to the shop and I felt the shop had done enough to not have to deal with it. Plus at that point I didn't want Spectrum touching the bike again, so it really wasn't worth the fight to me personally at the time.
> 
> I never dealt with Spot directly and have no idea how they feel about it or if they even know my paint is flaking (they did know about the color mix up and were helpful in getting that resolved for me, well, they at least thought it was resolved). I suspect if Spot knows Spot isn't thrilled, but like I said, things were taken care of in my mind (not by Spectrum) so I dropped it.


I ask because Spectrum is just Spot's subcontractor. Spot should know how Spectrum spoke to their customer and the way Spectrum made Spot's product look.

Squeeky wheels get the oil.


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## Richard (Feb 17, 2006)

My '72 Raleigh Super Course commuter (converted to SS) is going on 4 years with powdercoat by Olympic in Santa Ana, CA. It looks as good as new. But then, they know how to do bicycles - they did a lot of work for GT before they went under.

Since then, I've had 2 more frames done by them. All 3 are "2 stage" - metallic color with a second clear coat. They look as good as "wet paint."


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## PlatyPius (Feb 1, 2009)

My Rawland Sogn is powdercoated. Still looks great.

Don't even get me started on Spot... We had to have 3 out of 5 repainted locally because they sent the wrong colours and wouldn't fix it (at my previous employer).


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## atpjunkie (Mar 23, 2002)

*off the top of my head*

companies I know who build steel bikes and powder coat
Strong, De Salvo, Ingliss-Retrotech, Sycip, Caletti, Soulcraft

so my guess is it is okay


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## Ejdo (Mar 14, 2010)

Not to bring up an older thread but...

A real good friend of mine owns a powder coat business where he specializes in bicycles, motorcycles, and car parts. This is a skill not much different from welding, the quality greatly depends on the worker and it really isn't as easy as just spray and bake. Both of my bikes were powder coated by him and still look good after 4 years. I've also seen some of his steel motorcycle work and it keeps looking nice through the years. I would put a link to his work but don't want the RBR police coming down on me for solicitation.


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## cs1 (Sep 16, 2003)

jackblack said:


> I have a Surly 1x1 that is powder coated. It looks pretty bad.


For those of us over 50 does bad mean terrible or really nice?


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## covenant (May 21, 2002)

blueutopia said:


> Hi,
> I was talking to well respected steel frame builder who tells me he does NOT recommend
> powder coating of steel frames. Hes says it very porous on steel, and over time it creates
> "spider veins" on the finish. He much prefers a good quality primer/paint job for steel


name him


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## bahueh (May 11, 2004)

does this well respected steel frame builder, by chance, have a working stake/partnership with a nearby wet paint specialist/business? 

the advice you get typically correlates well with where the $$ goes...


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## ttug (May 14, 2004)

*this is BS*

I have seen high end frames from the makers done in powder coat, this includes Strong and Soukcraft. I very very sincerely doubt its a bad deal.

I have also seen some rather pricey frames done in powder , one of whih was a Hetchins Magnus Opus here in DC, I really really doubt that this guy would powder coat a 3 grand frame because it did not work. I have gut feeling he pobably did a **** pot of research


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## ciclisto (Nov 8, 2005)

I have a steel painted bike and Joe Bell Paint it has been 23 years and looks new and I use it and live by the ocean... I have powder coated motorcycle frames and they seem to hold up..., but I powder coated raw steel tubing for a fence rail on my porch and in two years rust come through.in vein like eruptions.


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## olapequena (Jan 23, 2009)

As a mountain biker I tend to beat up on my frames. Bent brazeons, dented Tubes, etc... Likewise, being a year round rider in western New England, rust is always a concern

My last two frames are powder coated customs. The first one chipped and peeled rather easily. The builder subsequently switched to better quality (non-cycling specific) shop. The bike I have that was coated by these folks is wildly durable. Even in places that have been dented (from being smashed on rocks) look like it's barely been scratched. As for spider veined rust, neither frame seems to exhibit such a phenomena. 

My old wet-painted Fat Chance... veins and bubbles galore. Do I care? Not so much. It's steel. Even if it looks a little rusty it's gonna be ok.


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## bahueh (May 11, 2004)

*that's not what..*



ttug said:


> I have seen high end frames from the makers done in powder coat, this includes Strong and Soukcraft. I very very sincerely doubt its a bad deal.
> 
> I have also seen some rather pricey frames done in powder , one of whih was a Hetchins Magnus Opus here in DC, I really really doubt that this guy would powder coat a 3 grand frame because it did not work. I have gut feeling he pobably did a **** pot of research


I was saying but great, good to hear.


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## raymonda (Jan 31, 2007)

Bontrager use to powder coat his frames and man were they ever durable. I have one that I bought in 1992 and it was nearly imposible to scratch. When I finally decided to repaint it, it was a bear to get the old paint off.


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## skygodmatt (May 24, 2005)

They are completely wrong.
Powdercoating steel is great.


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## bwhite_4 (Aug 29, 2006)

My Speedvagen was powdercoated at COAT. The paint is awesome. All the work I've seen from Spectrum has been awesome as well.


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## Andy69 (Jun 14, 2008)

It's like any finish - surface prep is the key. Powder coat over a properly prepared surface will outlast paint over a poorly prepared surface and vice versa.

Nowadays, 99% of all modern coating failures can be traced to poor surface prep.


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## jim_ (Apr 28, 2009)

Maybe there is a problem with clear powder coats ??

This guy thinks so


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## Andy69 (Jun 14, 2008)

jim_ said:


> Maybe there is a problem with clear powder coats ??
> 
> This guy thinks so


It's because the surface was not properly prepared beforehand or the powdercoat was not applied properly


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