# Carbon Ebay Frames for 2010 use this thread



## Coolhand

Closing up a few giant threads (still searchable) and opening this new one. Please post your Ebay carbon frame topics here. No shilling please- Classified Ads only cost $2.


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## chammons0007

*Newbie Frame Help!!*

I am new to the road bike buisness so i dont have any clue about terms used within the industry and would like to purchase a bike. but i like to tinker and was thinkin about assembling my first bike i was going to start with the frame and i found this one on ebay http://cgi.ebay.com/Carbon-Bike-Roa...dZViewItemQQptZRoad_Bikes?hash=item3a562d5e64 here is the item number (250553917028) and wanted some more experienced advie..... any advice would be appreciated and please dont flame because a begginer wants too build a bike


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## Kristatos

Provided that frame is close to the right size for you I say go for it, you'll find lots of help in the other forums concerning build tips/advice.


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## stevesbike

that frame is more expensive than a lot of others and a lot of details are left out - such as frame & fork weight. I'd also stay away from generic carbon bars.


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## robpar

chammons0007 said:


> I am new to the road bike buisness so i dont have any clue about terms used within the industry and would like to purchase a bike. but i like to tinker and was thinkin about assembling my first bike i was going to start with the frame and i found this one on ebay http://cgi.ebay.com/Carbon-Bike-Roa...dZViewItemQQptZRoad_Bikes?hash=item3a562d5e64 here is the item number (250553917028) and wanted some more experienced advie..... any advice would be appreciated and please dont flame because a begginer wants too build a bike


 I have that frame; frame 1190 grams; fork 380 grams (postal scale). Price is not bad when you consider that shipping is free (typically 75-100 bucks); A typical price for frame, fork and seat post is running around $380 (excluding handlebar; shipping); I would pass on the seat post and get a better one. Also, this frame is sold by three other sellers: carbonbicycle; 88bikefun and... I can't remember the other one
Ask if they will throw in headset and seat clamp... (they did for me)
make sure its the correct size for you.


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## CleavesF

stevesbike said:


> that frame is more expensive than a lot of others and a lot of details are left out - such as frame & fork weight. I'd also stay away from generic carbon bars.


Yeah because carbon bars which are generic aren't gonna be as good as the generic cages, frames, forks...


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## stevesbike

didn't see the free shipping - makes that one more competitive. Re carbon bars, my opinion was based the fact that most such bars end up weighing a lot - more cost effective (and lighter) to find an alloy bar.


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## mephist0r

Is it the board concensus that the rounded toptube model is the best choice? I see a few different models offered among the "chinese bike guys"...


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## Yaniel

i'm looking at the kouta kredo replica (straight fork). does anyone know what size front derailleur clamp it requires?


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## egam

Coolhand said:


> Closing up a few giant threads (still searchable) and opening this new one. Please post your Ebay carbon frame topics here. No shilling please- Classified Ads only cost $2.


Getting ready to squeeze the trigger on one of these frames. Will update. The Kuota one seems to be calling my name. Any differances with the carbon weaves? Any advantages one over the other?


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## mephist0r

I just ordered the Kuota Frame in 52 CM from jenny with the following

FM001+FK002 - 325
SP003 - 36
Headset - 15
3 Btl Cages - 36
STEM - 25
Headset Spacers - Free

Shipping was a steep 78 bux but I imagine that's pretty accurate... so a grand total of 515.00 shipped to California.

Will be building up with a SRAM force group and easton ea90 wheelset.

any input is welcomed... Anyone know what size BB I need for the FM001 (kuota)?

Thanks


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## asad137

mephist0r said:


> Shipping was a steep 78 bux but I imagine that's pretty accurate...


$78 seems entirely reasonable for overseas shipping of something as large as a bike frame.

Asad


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## mephist0r

YeAh agreed. Let's hope customs doesn't want to own it.


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## rydog9991

Thought everyone might get a kick out of this...... what a jerk.:mad2: 

http://portland.craigslist.org/mlt/bik/1556135116.html

http://portland.craigslist.org/mlt/bik/1561892735.html


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## dutch937

That is FUBAR! What a chump...Having said that, if you are stupid enough to beleive everything you read on CL, you deserve to get ripped off. Like everything, do your homework.


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## mephist0r

Received the frame today, a few imperfections, but who cares for 400 bux all in. Finish on forks was a bit iffy, but I'll live. They definitely clear coat these frames out in the open instead of in a dust-proof area.

All in all, pretty happy with the frame appearance. The seatpost is laughably heavy... they included the wrong seatpost clamp, too small and it's a quick release... weighs a ton too. I'm just going to toss the bad stuff and buy new, not worth dealing with shipping back to China. 

They also forgot my spacer rings for the stem...again, I'll live. The frame and fork looks good.


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## foofighter

nice for a 400 frame i would live with little imperfections here and there...i'm so ready to order my hong fu FM015 frame ugh...

how long did it take for you to get your shipment?


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## mephist0r

Shipped out on the 17th from China, arrived Today, (Jan 22nd) so about 5 days shipping time to Los Angeles.


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## foofighter

nice that's what i wanted to hear  thanks!


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## vaetuning

*015-SPL final build pics*

Hi all

Here is some pictures of the final build

Even though it is very cold in Denmark right now (-6 celcious), I went for a little ride, just to see if it drives as it looks - it does - good, that is!!

Compared to my Scott CR-1 ´09 - still the old frame without the new comfort build in, it rides very nice, it does not feel as if you're sitting on a torture device, like the Scott sometimes does, when ridden on harsh roads, but it sure feels as if you're getting all the power to the rear wheel - it actually feels a little bit faster than the Scott.

There where no odd sounds from the frame whatsoever, and it tracks very surefooted, turns nice, has a very good balance and generally feels like a much more expensive frame than it is.

Of course I'll have to ride somemore when the weather gets better, but so far I like it very much.

The Driven group does NOT feel like a shimano 105 group - it is super precise in the shifts.
It makes no odd noises,
The ceramic crank bearings are as smooth as my Super Record on my Scott - Its simply the best value for money I've ever ridden.
And it has got the lovely "clunk" when I shift gears - just like my campagnolo groupos - nice:thumbsup: 

Cheers


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## foofighter

wow that's nice


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## Rob81

Vaetuning
where did you find that groupset, and for how much?
Is it available in Europe (i.e. contacting them did they ship to EU)?
Thanks


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## DRAwpt

*Cippolini bikes: what company makes them?*

Anybody have any ideas?

http://forum.velonews.com/topic.php?id=206


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## esenkay

DRAwpt said:


> Anybody have any ideas?
> 
> http://forum.velonews.com/topic.php?id=206



Don't know for sure, but I read that this company _may_ make them:

http://www.maxlelli.com

They look kinda like the Felt AR which I like a lot.


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## foofighter

for those that ordered from Jenny, did you pay via PayPal or some other means? Just as an FYI as of Jan 01, 2010 they inplemented 4% charge for usinging PayPal.


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## KMan

*??*



foofighter said:


> for those that ordered from Jenny, did you pay via PayPal or some other means? Just as an FYI as of Jan 01, 2010 they inplemented 4% charge for usinging PayPal.


I thought this was against Paypal rules?

Michael


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## foofighter

dont know Michael, but 4% is a small price to pay for that extra security you know? I wasnt sure of the terms of use/service that PayPal implements so that's news to me


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## dutch937

foofighter said:


> for those that ordered from Jenny, did you pay via PayPal or some other means? Just as an FYI as of Jan 01, 2010 they inplemented 4% charge for usinging PayPal.


Paypal for sure! I really didn't know much about Hong Fu prior to ordering my frame, so I definitely wanted the extra security that paypal offers.


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## dutch937

vaetuning said:


> Hi all
> 
> Here is some pictures of the final build
> 
> Even though it is very cold in Denmark right now (-6 celcious), I went for a little ride, just to see if it drives as it looks - it does - good, that is!!
> 
> Compared to my Scott CR-1 ´09 - still the old frame without the new comfort build in, it rides very nice, it does not feel as if you're sitting on a torture device, like the Scott sometimes does, when ridden on harsh roads, but it sure feels as if you're getting all the power to the rear wheel - it actually feels a little bit faster than the Scott.
> 
> There where no odd sounds from the frame whatsoever, and it tracks very surefooted, turns nice, has a very good balance and generally feels like a much more expensive frame than it is.
> 
> Of course I'll have to ride somemore when the weather gets better, but so far I like it very much.
> 
> The Driven group does NOT feel like a shimano 105 group - it is super precise in the shifts.
> It makes no odd noises,
> The ceramic crank bearings are as smooth as my Super Record on my Scott - Its simply the best value for money I've ever ridden.
> And it has got the lovely "clunk" when I shift gears - just like my campagnolo groupos - nice:thumbsup:
> 
> Cheers


Mads...Looks amazing!!


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## PLAYONIT

foofighter said:


> for those that ordered from Jenny, did you pay via PayPal or some other means? Just as an FYI as of Jan 01, 2010 they inplemented 4% charge for usinging PayPal.


Paypal here.....


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## cyclist_sg

Hi,

Just to share my previous and upcoming project frames from China for your view and comments:

Rgds... Pat


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## locobaylor

you need a brighter background..


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## il sogno

cyclist_sg said:


> Hi,
> 
> Just to share my previous and upcoming project frames from China for your view and comments:
> 
> Rgds... Pat


Nice reflector.


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## FatTireFred

il sogno said:


> Nice reflector.




looks like it's actually a light


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## jwjolle

vaetuning said:


> Hi all
> 
> Here is some pictures of the final build
> 
> Even though it is very cold in Denmark right now (-6 celcious), I went for a little ride, just to see if it drives as it looks - it does - good, that is!!
> 
> Compared to my Scott CR-1 ´09 - still the old frame without the new comfort build in, it rides very nice, it does not feel as if you're sitting on a torture device, like the Scott sometimes does, when ridden on harsh roads, but it sure feels as if you're getting all the power to the rear wheel - it actually feels a little bit faster than the Scott.
> 
> There where no odd sounds from the frame whatsoever, and it tracks very surefooted, turns nice, has a very good balance and generally feels like a much more expensive frame than it is.
> 
> Of course I'll have to ride somemore when the weather gets better, but so far I like it very much.
> 
> The Driven group does NOT feel like a shimano 105 group - it is super precise in the shifts.
> It makes no odd noises,
> The ceramic crank bearings are as smooth as my Super Record on my Scott - Its simply the best value for money I've ever ridden.
> And it has got the lovely "clunk" when I shift gears - just like my campagnolo groupos - nice:thumbsup:
> 
> Cheers



Looks great! What size did you choose? 55 or 58? What are your measurements, height? Inseam?

I'm 185cm (6'1'), with 85cm (33'') inseam. Cannot decide if i should go for 55 or 58 (FM015-spl)?? Help!


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## Grabeef

jwjolle said:


> Looks great! What size did you choose? 55 or 58? What are your measurements, height? Inseam?
> 
> I'm 185cm (6'1'), with 85cm (33'') inseam. Cannot decide if i should go for 55 or 58 (FM015-spl)?? Help!


If it is any help, I am 5' 10ish and 33'' inside leg. I have just ordered the 55. I came to this conclusion after using various online calculators which seemed to suggest going up to 58 but then after trying out various frames in my LBS, 55 seemed a better fit. In fact, coming from an MTB it seemed huge.


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## Rob81

I ask you help
This Summer i bought this frame from ebay shop "bycicle_999", now my rear aluminiom hanger is damaged. I attach the pic. Anyone know where I can find this aluminium dropout specific model or its ID number?
Thanks


Front

Back


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## pelayostyle

Rob81 said:


> I ask you help
> This Summer i bought this frame from ebay shop "bycicle_999", now my rear aluminiom hanger is damaged. I attach the pic. Anyone know where I can find this aluminium dropout specific model or its ID number?


I wonder if these will fit


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## Rob81

thanks but they sell these J dropouts that doesn't fit with their frames. Incidently they fit with my other chinese frame, the Fm015 ISP!
Anyway I find the solution, my LBS had one of these and I ordered another from the link below.
If anyone had this kind of trouble, check this site http://www.pilo.co.il/ they make them even in custom colors.


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## ansetou

i'm looking for a frame for my wife. I need something that has a top tube horizontal length of 47~49 CM. However, these ebay china frames all have very long TT. any idea why they are like that? anyone knows where i may find something that fits my size req? thx.


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## Hi Speed Motorsports

Hi everybody, so glad I found this forum. Just wanted to share my experience with ebay frames. Last may I bought one of these frames from mandyyang. At first I planned on buying it through ebay but mandy said she/he would give me a break if I bought directly. So I sent $500 to them and prayed it wasn't a scam. Well less then two weeks later this awesome frame/fork and other stuff showed up. They were flawless as far as finish. Loved it. Didn't use all the parts I bought. Seat clamp and seatpost weighed a ton. Now just paper weighs on my desk. I used the handlebars, felt good. I used the stem but it was heavy. My first ride I didn't know what to expect. It rode very nice. Nicer then my Gaint. Size wise I could have use one size smaller. It was a 58cm. Well 2500 miles later, all is still well. To cold too ride now so I'm tearing it down. I'm about to buy a new 56cm frame, stem,seatpost and rims. They now have a lighter all carbon stem. 
http://www.flyxii.com/products_1.asp?menuid=328&id=364
They also have a lighter seatpost. 
They gave me an amazing price so I'm gonna do it again. Mandy beat jenny by alot. Can anyone tell me how their ebay carbon wheels are? Did anyone build a set or ride on them yet? Also I can't make up my mind on 38mm or 50mm rims. Lighter 38mm or aero 50mm. 50mm do look cool. they won't be my main set. Any help would be appreciated.

Thanks in advance


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## Peanya

That site you're advertising for uses the same pics used on Ebay...


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## Hi Speed Motorsports

Not really advertising for them. For all I know they are all the same place. I do know the Mandy from flyxii has multiple ebay stores in different names. I'm sure jenny has many too. Al lot of their pictures have the same backgrounds.


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## hendern88

Hi there, does anyone know if any Chinese 'ebay' frames that have an old fashioned style horizontal top tube as opposed to a sloping one ?

many thanks


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## ghostryder

Grabeef said:


> If it is any help, I am 5' 10ish and 33'' inside leg. I have just ordered the 55. I came to this conclusion after using various online calculators which seemed to suggest going up to 58 but then after trying out various frames in my LBS, 55 seemed a better fit. In fact, coming from an MTB it seemed huge.



I am your size

54 or 55 is good. 54 preferable.

definately not a 58.


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## haitech

Just want to share some information with you guys:

regarding this website

http://www.flyxii.com/products_1.asp?menuid=328&id=364

this belong to the a guy name Yong otherwise know as bicycle_999 on ebay, that why the picture looks familiar. How do I know this, I've bought 3 frame set from bicycle_999 so far directly, he is legit and have delivered the 3 set to me during the last 3 weeks.

hendern88,

regarding your request for "Chinese 'ebay' frames that have an old fashioned style horizontal top tube", the 3 frame set I bought is exactly what you want, I've the picture of what it look like and what my bike look like now that finished building it. Hope this help!


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## hendern88

Hi there, thanks haitech, do you have a pic of your built up bike but from the side ( rather than front ) so I can better judge the geometry. Looks like just what I'm looking for.....


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## haitech

Here you go, my frame is a

54 cm frame size, with fork in 3K finish

* Standover height = 785.3mm
* Seat tube angle= 73
* Head tube angle = 72.5
* Top tube length = 550mm


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## pelayostyle

Has anyone seen this frame before? 
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=250563194984


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## lawsonallred

pelayostyle said:


> Has anyone seen this frame before?
> http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=250563194984


Yes. That frame is either manufactured or distributed by a company called HongFu (the company that employs the customer service rep named Jenny that people keep referring to). I think it's hongfubikes.com. 

FYI, I just received a carbon fiber frame and fork from eBay seller bicycle_999 and I have to say, I'm impressed. Fast delivery, very nice finish, super price, etc. haven't built the bike yet, but I anticipate good things.


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## ms6073

I think you meant Hongfu-bikes but you can also try Alibaba who host links to numerous far eastern manufacturers.


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## lalahsghost

Delete Please. 

Messed up Post.


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## mephist0r

Got mine all finished and took it for a maiden voyage last night... amazing. Very fast bike. Weighed in at 14.79 lbs complete at the LBS.

Easton EC70 Bars
Sram Force & Red 2010 Groupset
Easton EA90 Aero Wheelset
Conti 4000S Tires w/ Lunar Light Tubes
Fizik Microtex Bar Wrap
Selle SMP Stratos w/ Carbon Rails Saddle
Ritchey WCS Carbon Seatpost
Look Keo 2 Max Carbon Pedals


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## pdxrolex

Rob81 said:


> I ask you help
> This Summer i bought this frame from ebay shop "bycicle_999", now my rear aluminiom hanger is damaged. I attach the pic. Anyone know where I can find this aluminium dropout specific model or its ID number?
> Thanks
> 
> 
> Front
> 
> Back


I'd just email bicycle 999 through ebay. They reply fast, and should be able to get you a replacement hanger. (I'd buy 2-3 if I were you)


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## Myrkur

_post removed_


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## Myrkur

I was shopping at my LBS and had a chat with their mechanic. I told him that I am making my own carbon ebay build and his response was that I should definetely get the bottom bracket area faced, otherwise the BB would be wreck in no time. Do you think that it's really necessary to face the BB area? He told that the facing would cost 40 dollars, which is quite expensive.


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## lalahsghost

pdxrolex said:


> I'd just email bicycle 999 through ebay. They reply fast, and should be able to get you a replacement hanger. (I'd buy 2-3 if I were you)


Trek/Gary Fisher MTB hangers are same exact if you need a quick fix and run to LBS.


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## MarvinK

Someone needs to tell these Asian frame makers that the bare carbon look went out of style 3 years ago.


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## hipcheck5

MarvinK said:


> Someone needs to tell these Asian frame makers that the bare carbon look went out of style 3 years ago.


So you are one of those people who follows style first.


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## MarvinK

If I'm spending thousands of dollars on a bike, yes... I expect it to look good. So do most other people. 

There are several other factors that further rule out these types of frames for me, but that seems like a relatively easy and inexpensive fix.


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## Don Duende

hipcheck5 said:


> So you are one of those people who follows style first.


You would be shocked to know how many forum members are Slaves to Fashion.


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## thechriswebb

MarvinK said:


> If I'm spending thousands of dollars on a bike, yes... I expect it to look good. So do most other people.
> 
> There are several other factors that further rule out these types of frames for me, but that seems like a relatively easy and inexpensive fix.



You aren't paying thousands of dollars for these frames. That is why people are buying them.


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## hipcheck5

Don Duende said:


> You would be shocked to know how many forum members are Slaves to Fashion.


Not shocked at all, when I first got into racing in the mid '80's I hung out at a shop and when I raced for a shop team in the early '00's I saw first hand how vanity can trum all other ideas. I just was curious to see if he had the balls to admit to being shallow.


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## MarvinK

thechriswebb said:


> You aren't paying thousands of dollars for these frames. That is why people are buying them.


Obviously, the frameset is only one piece. Even with a $500 frameset, you're still looking at likely $1500+ for a decent spec bike. I'd still be vain enough to think a $1500 bike should look good.

Frankly, I'm surprised I don't see more knock-off drivetrains to go with the no-name frames. It seems like a lot less risk to go with a no-name derailleur than carbon frame. On the other hand, I'd rather buy a known-quality aluminum frameset (CAAD9, etc) than a fly-by-night Asian knock-off. I don't have issues with PedalForce or other brands that have reasonably known quality.. But ebay seems real risky. I mean, people leave feedback within 2 weeks. If the frame explodes because its low quality 3 months later, there is little recourse. 

Vanity isn't the main reason I don't buy no name plain ebay frames--but it is a factor in buying a bike. Those willing to risk their lives for the sake of saying they have a carbon bike seem like they might also be vain enough to want their carbon bike to not look like it came from 2005.


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## willhs

I enjoy watching people bash these frames. I think whenever someone puts in a bash they should include some details like whether they've ever used one (generally, the answer seems to be no) and whether they work in a bike shop (many people in this forum do, and that seems to present both a financial conflict of interest and a general elitist attitude towards equipment).

I built up a 15lb beauty last year using one of these frames and SRAM Red components, and it has worked amazingly well. I wouldn't go with any other frameset. I've never worked in a bike shop, but I've been doing serious riding for over 10 years. My current bike is the best bike I've ever ridden, and I was only able to afford it because of the "fly by night" frames.


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## MarvinK

What I really can't believe hasn't been made into a knockoff is Rotor chainrings... I mean, $300/set? How hard can they be to make? If I was building bike parts at a factory in Asia, I'd certainly be looking at what it would take to make something Rotor-inspired.


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## Jim311

MarvinK said:


> Obviously, the frameset is only one piece. Even with a $500 frameset, you're still looking at likely $1500+ for a decent spec bike. I'd still be vain enough to think a $1500 bike should look good.
> 
> Frankly, I'm surprised I don't see more knock-off drivetrains to go with the no-name frames. It seems like a lot less risk to go with a no-name derailleur than carbon frame. On the other hand, I'd rather buy a known-quality aluminum frameset (CAAD9, etc) than a fly-by-night Asian knock-off. I don't have issues with PedalForce or other brands that have reasonably known quality.. But ebay seems real risky. I mean, people leave feedback within 2 weeks. If the frame explodes because its low quality 3 months later, there is little recourse.
> 
> Vanity isn't the main reason I don't buy no name plain ebay frames--but it is a factor in buying a bike. Those willing to risk their lives for the sake of saying they have a carbon bike seem like they might also be vain enough to want their carbon bike to not look like it came from 2005.



I don't even know where you'd find knock-off drivetrains? You might find cheapo componentry, but with the money you save buying the frame you've more cash to spend on your components. Plus lets face it, a frame has ZERO moving parts. You get better performance from better quality parts, but it's debatable as to whether you get better performance from a more expensive frame. As far as a frame exploding 3 months later, who cares about Ebay reviews, they're junk. Pay attention to what's in this thread and all over the internet. Obviously a generic carbon frame isn't for you, but this thread makes it pretty obvious that is IS for a lot of other people. The fact that you can build up a pretty damn good machine with decent components for 1500 bucks or so means more people have access to better quality gear.


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## ulrichw

MarvinK said:


> [...] Those willing to risk their lives for the sake of saying they have a carbon bike seem like they might also be vain enough to want their carbon bike to not look like it came from 2005.


If you do a little more research, you'll find that most of the vendors will paint the frame with your custom design for you for a nominal fee (I believe it's been quoted around $40-$50 in the posts I've seen).


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## ausdb

I've been following the carbon ebay threads for a while now and they all seem to have very small head tube heights. I have never seen one yet with "sportive" or "endurance" type geometry ie taller head tube and slightly shorter top tube.

Has anyone seen something along the lines of a specialized roubaix style frame around? if you have please share the details.


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## Rob81

I own either a Bicycle_999 ebay frame and a Fm015 ISP frame bought from Greatkeen.
Both very good, I solved my rear drop issue in a day, that was not a frame issue but poor aluminium material (and a quite thin machined piece compared to the new one).
I can safely say the FM015 is hands down my best carbon frame ever (and I had a Roubaix and a Tarmac) even if I should say if I could go back in time I'll not buy ISP just for a matter of practicality (sp?).
Now I'm looking for something new, any rumours? new aero shapes? 1k instead of 3 or 12k cover?
A frame ala new Cipollini bikes looks very "Chineese" IMHO https://cdn.media.cyclingnews.com/2010/01/19/2/bettiniphoto_0044823_1_full_600.jpg and I'd like to find something similar


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## vanterminator

willhs said:


> I enjoy watching people bash these frames. I think whenever someone puts in a bash they should include some details like whether they've ever used one (generally, the answer seems to be no) and whether they work in a bike shop (many people in this forum do, and that seems to present both a financial conflict of interest and a general elitist attitude towards equipment).


Well said. I have come across LBSs that even refuse to work on equipment because it is below their preferred brands. I had an old Bianchi one LBS coop wouldnt work on because 'the parts were not what they would have put in' (the bike was given to me by someone and it had mostly 105 components except I think the hub)...

Ive noticed certain shops are very elitist, even their freaking mechanics. Just because they sell $4k bikes that most regular folk cant afford doesnt give them the right to pass judgement on other products they have no clue about. A 'mechanic' that tell you to put in new, branded stuff all the time is MOSTLY not a mechanic.

Brand name isnt everything, its USUALLY a means for making bigger markups. I can give you a few cases where markups by companies are around 70% (not biking companies but brand names nonetheless). Yes, sometimes they is supported by better quality, but mostly, research has shown its not.

Sorry, this become a rant of sorts. 

I myself am planning to get one of these generic frames, since with time and reading, I have moved away from brand names and now I try to do research on quality/safety when purchasing something.


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## MarvinK

I guess I'm wondering how people are determining safety on the no-name frames. I think you could make an argument for Pedal Force, Hasa or maybe a couple of others... but most of them you're only going to find 5-10 posts about the frame, and most of them are relatively new. You don't know what brand or factory made it, so you don't know their track record. Five people saying they built up a frame and it works out of the box, doesn't mean you found a safe, reliable frame. I don't care what brand a bike is, but I do think a reputation for quality is valuable for a carbon frame. You simply can't get that with the small number of forum posts on a generic frame sold on ebay. 

Even those that are highly knowledgeable and open to generic asian parts are pretty open about it being a bad idea to buy an unknown carbon frame from an unknown builder from a single ebay seller. Everyone has to determine their own risk tolerance, but I think carbon is the worst material to be buying generic.


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## ru1-2cycle

*carbon e-bay frames*



MarvinK said:


> I guess I'm wondering how people are determining safety on the no-name frames. I think you could make an argument for Pedal Force, Hasa or maybe a couple of others... but most of them you're only going to find 5-10 posts about the frame, and most of them are relatively new. You don't know what brand or factory made it, so you don't know their track record. Five people saying they built up a frame and it works out of the box, doesn't mean you found a safe, reliable frame. I don't care what brand a bike is, but I do think a reputation for quality is valuable for a carbon frame. You simply can't get that with the small number of forum posts on a generic frame sold on ebay.
> 
> Even those that are highly knowledgeable and open to generic asian parts are pretty open about it being a bad idea to buy an unknown carbon frame from an unknown builder from a single ebay seller. Everyone has to determine their own risk tolerance, but I think carbon is the worst material to be buying generic.


I have three carbon ebay frames from bicycle_999 and still loving it! I still have a good life insurance just in case...Safety concerns, uhmm, see what happened to the great safety record of Toyota, with all those years of customer proven trust, and now... LOL.  ru1-2cycle


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## MarvinK

I think Toyota is a good example. If those types of flaws are found in your bicycle_999 frames... think you'll ever see a recall?


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## PLAYONIT

MarvinK said:


> I guess I'm wondering how people are determining safety on the no-name frames. I think you could make an argument for Pedal Force, Hasa or maybe a couple of others... but most of them you're only going to find 5-10 posts about the frame, and most of them are relatively new. You don't know what brand or factory made it, so you don't know their track record. Five people saying they built up a frame and it works out of the box, doesn't mean you found a safe, reliable frame. I don't care what brand a bike is, but I do think a reputation for quality is valuable for a carbon frame. You simply can't get that with the small number of forum posts on a generic frame sold on ebay.
> 
> Even those that are highly knowledgeable and open to generic asian parts are pretty open about it being a bad idea to buy an unknown carbon frame from an unknown builder from a single ebay seller. Everyone has to determine their own risk tolerance, but I think carbon is the worst material to be buying generic.


I think you make a very valid point... and agree with you.. That said, I have taken a chance with a Hong-fu SPL-015 it appears like a decent frame but only on the road abuse will tell the real story. I agree that there is an inherent risk of injury it the frame fails.. But, I feel that any composite bike frame runs the same risk regardless of the pedigree.. 

I think (and it's their right) for some folks to keep pointing out what most of the Asian frame buyers already know "We have taken a chance" we know that!!,,,,, but whether it be by economic necessity to get into the game or someone just likes the look of a certain frame... one thing is certain we love to talk about and enjoy them as much as the the high end buyer does about theirs. We are a hardy group that just keep's taking it on the chin because of our choice.. But, it's our choice and we have made our bed, and now we will sleep in it.....


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## willhs

MarvinK, yes, that is a good point, and it's the only point that is repeatedly made. Would you mind disclosing if you have ever used one of these frames, and whether you've worked at a bike shop?

I agree with PLAYONIT, I wouldn't trade my bike for anything else (probably because it cost $2k, is perfectly sized for me, weighs in at almost exactly 15lbs and carries full SRAM Red).


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## mjmacleod

I have also noticed that the companies who are selling them change. Anyone have any thoughts?


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## hipcheck5

I just want to know why MarvinK has such an intense dislike for these no-name carbon frames, it almost sounds like he works or owns a shop and feels he is losing business because of this.


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## willhs

mjmacleod: They're not companies, they're just aliases, and they don't generally "change" as much as more are created. You are essentially making the same point that "buying from a no-name is risky."

My point is that, while that is the disadvantage in this scenario, the price difference is insane. You can also buy components cheaply if you time it right and use Bing cashback for everything, and you can choose a frame that best fits your dimensions (google search for frame size calculators based on your measurements). I've specced out my bike on Trek.com, and it was over $8,000, or literally 4 times the cost. I realize that I sacrificed some quality assurance somewhere in that price difference, but after one full season of riding I am unbelievably happy with my decision.

Take a look at this thread where a guy cut up his ebay fork. Looks pretty rock solid to me, though again you could make the point that maybe the one that I bought is made of newspaper. I'd like to add that the name brand stuff has been known to break as well.

http://forums.roadbikereview.com/showthread.php?t=201733&page=2&highlight=fork


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## MarvinK

I helped my brother build up his PedalForce, but I haven't bought (and probably never will) a generic frame. My brother's bike is nice--Fulcrum 0 wheels, SRAM Red parts, etc... but no matter what parts he puts on it, it is going to look ugly and dated.

I didn't come on this thread out of dislike for no-name frames. I came on because I couldn't understand why none of them address something as easy as cleaning up the outdated appearance--which would help them sell more frames. I've seen a few exceptions where someone has gone through the effort of designing their own custom graphics and having them applied. This Hong Fu is a great example:
http://forums.roadbikereview.com/showthread.php?t=195015


As soon as I posted that (I think it is a fair question--and it is pretty obvious that every major brand has figured out bare carbon looks dated), hipcheck started in with the vanity crap. The harsh reality is that people are more inclined to buy a bike the looks good--whether they pay $500, $1500 or $5000. A modern-looking no-name carbon frame from asia is going to sell faster and appeal to a broader audience than one that looks like it came from 2005. If ulrichw is right, and it's only $40-50 to make it look good--I think those companies/sellers should really start advertising that. I mean, $50 is insanely cheap for a carbon paint job.

Since hipcheck wondered if I wasn't buying ebay carbon frames because they look like 2005, I told him the reason I wasn't buying them (I value a known reputation). I didn't mean to come in here to rant about risks of unknown frames--I 100% agree with PLAYONIT's last post. I assume most of you guys know there is some added risk to buying unknown carbon frames from unknown ebay sellers... and you probably already know your bike is going to look like 2005 if you buy a bare carbon frame. 

I guess my original post was for those ebay sellers or asian no-name builders... asking why they don't make them look better (or at least more aggressively advertise that it is an option). I think it would help them sell more frames to a wider audience.


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## Italianrider76

MarvinK said:


> As soon as I posted that (I think it is a fair question--and it is pretty obvious that every major brand has figured out bare carbon looks dated),


Yeah I don't know if that's quite correct. As recently as 2009 but to somewhat lesser extent in 2010 both Giant's TCR Advanced and Advanced SL lines for example feature bare carbon. Sure they have decals and coloured accents but the the bikes' overall appearance is based on the bare carbon look. Whilst white does seem to be most fashionable at the moment bare carbon will always have a place.


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## willhs

I think it's all preference regarding appearance. I like 100% bare carbon with no logos, personally.


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## asad137

willhs said:


> I think it's all preference regarding appearance. I like 100% bare carbon with no logos, personally.


Agreed. Quite frankly, saying that unpainted carbon looks "outdated" is a little ridiculous. Simple and understated will NEVER be outdated. I would buy a bare carbon frame over one with a "modern" paintjob any day.

Asad


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## foofighter

asad137 said:


> Agreed. Quite frankly, saying that unpainted carbon looks "outdated" is a little ridiculous. Simple and understated will NEVER be outdated. I would buy a bare carbon frame over one with a "modern" paintjob any day.
> 
> Asad


agreed, all subjective. the 2010 Specialized Tarmac SL3 Module and Pro SL is raw/flat black and i love it


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## gandini

Is this "bare bone carbon" enough?
Frame sourced from China, but not through eBay.


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## Rob81

your frame is uber cool, any infos on where to find it?
Thanks


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## gandini

It's a group buy, comes in 2 flavors, but not as cheap as the eBay frames. This is the higher end frame with Edge tapered fork (weighs 340g). The frame is large (obviously) with a 57cm TT, weighs 975g. Check out Neo Cycles for details.
I just posted as someone was slamming bikes that look oh so 2005...


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## MarvinK

gandini said:


> It's a group buy, comes in 2 flavors, but not as cheap as the eBay frames. This is the higher end frame with Edge tapered fork (weighs 340g). The frame is large (obviously) with a 57cm TT, weighs 975g. Check out Neo Cycles for details.
> I just posted as someone was slamming bikes that look oh so 2005...


Your bike looks great. Really, unidirectional still looks current. I'm sure there are people who like the look of plain weaved carbon, regardless of whether it looks current. Your bike doesn't look 2005--but it doesn't look like weaved carbon, either. I think more of those makers should be doing exactly what your builder did--which was the whole point of my post.


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## willhs

View attachment 191926


Okay, you inspired me to walk over and take this picture with my phone. Now that I've loaded it to my computer it doesn't look so good, but you can see it's 100% carbon with full SRAM Red and flit wheels (which are awesome, btw, and extremely light). The carbon weave is much more visible in person, but you can kind of see it in person.


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## MarvinK

willhs: your bike frame looks like a generic bike frame bought off ebay from some unknown factory in asia... it looks like that factory likes to rip off Pinarello's designs (at least forks). Your bike looks a lot like my brothers: expensive parts on a cheap knock off-looking frame. Sorry. It's too bad they don't steal some of Pinarello's graphics to go with their designs--the Pinarello paint jobs look great.

Glad you like it.


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## willhs

That's definitely not the response I get in the real world. And actually I got the parts cheap as well, if that makes you feel better. As I said, it cost a couple dollars over $2k including the pedals (not pictured because they're on my trainer bike), and it weighs in at 15lbs even including the pedals with a 57cm frame. Incidentally the frame dimensions are exactly the right fit for me, to the centimeter, which is why I chose it out of the many frame options available. Have fun matching that setup on Trek.com.

Also, you never answered whether you've worked at a bike shop?


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## MarvinK

I've never earned a living at a bike shop (I'm an IT manager), but have helped out on an occasional busy Saturday at a local shop in the summer when they are short staffed. I'm sure you got a good deal on your SRAM parts... and if you got a great deal on a real Pinarello, it'd still look like a Pinarello... instead of a knock off. 

I just think those knock-off companies should try harder to not look so much like knock offs.


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## willhs

I'd be pretty amazed if a new Pinarello of those specs could be had for anywhere near $2k, which is my entire point.

The funny thing is I actually got a comment from a guy saying "hey, nice Pinarello, I have the same bike!" And maybe we do, since Pinarellos are made in Taiwan as well, but it doesn't matter. This may be a 2005 thing, as you say, but I know some guys who would have their bikes professionally sanded down to look cool.

So, again, it's all preference. I don't want to turn this thread into a heated discussion on whether the frames subjectively look good. I think it's great that there are so many options in cycling, and people like what they like. Hopefully others will post pictures of their creations as well. I'll take some better pictures when it's nice outside.


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## Myrkur

People who buy these frames obviously don't have an issue with their looks. If you don't like the way bare carbon frame looks, no one is going to force you to buy one and if someone doesn't like my frame why should I care. It still rides good.

However, it's possible that one can always get bored with their frames look. But these frames offer a great base to be creative. If I get bored of the understated look, I'm going to make a custom paint job for it. Already have some plans. (Original art, definetely not straight copy of brand designs that some people do..)


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## Jim311

MarvinK said:


> I've never earned a living at a bike shop (I'm an IT manager), but have helped out on an occasional busy Saturday at a local shop in the summer when they are short staffed. I'm sure you got a good deal on your SRAM parts... and if you got a great deal on a real Pinarello, it'd still look like a Pinarello... instead of a knock off.
> 
> I just think those knock-off companies should try harder to not look so much like knock offs.



You sound like an elitist, more interested in looks than you are in function.


These frames are not for you. If you want a bike that looks like a Pinarello, buy a Pinarello!


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## hipcheck5

The thing about these Asian frames that blows my mind is just how much some people feel the need to hate on them. Some people seriously seem to think they are a personal affront to them.


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## Rob81

sincerely better for us buyers, the more the hate the less they're going to rise the price to make them more trendy.
OT/ the new Cervelo prototype (California 700 circa grams) is all black carbon naked, blahhhhh, horrible....no.... wait it's going to be sold for 9000$....will be a success then!


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## foofighter

Rob81 said:


> sincerely better for us buyers, the more the hate the less they're going to rise the price to make them more trendy.
> OT/ the new Cervelo prototype (California 700 circa grams) is all black carbon naked, blahhhhh, horrible....no.... wait it's going to be sold for 9000$....will be a success then!


a lot of it I THINK is after you just spent 3k on a name brand frame and you can get one that's made off the same mold etc for a fraction of the price you will find a way to discount these frames as being cheap or built using paper mache or of fiberglass instead of CF LOL i dont know but I do notice a lot of hating going on.

someone w/ the means should just buy one do a cut away/dissection and settle this


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## j-man

i have one and it rides just fine for a frame of that price, although no where near as stiff as my tarmac sl3, but definitly not a poorly designed frame, i will post pics soon


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## akatsuki

MarvinK said:


> I guess my original post was for those ebay sellers or asian no-name builders... asking why they don't make them look better (or at least more aggressively advertise that it is an option). I think it would help them sell more frames to a wider audience.


Well, red is this year's hot color (RXR, new Looks, etc...) So everyone get yours painted red right away!

Seriously, the bare-bones nature of their operation is great. If I want to have it painted, they will do it, or I can send it to someone here and have them do it. The moment they add color choices, brand labels, etc, is when prices go up and the value goes down.


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## MarvinK

Rob81 said:


> OT/ the new Cervelo prototype (California 700 circa grams) is all black carbon naked, blahhhhh, horrible....no.... wait it's going to be sold for 9000$....will be a success then!


It's made in the USA and designed using Cervelo's own intellectual property. $9000 is pretty spendy, though. Guess it costs money to have an R&D department.


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## gandini

Yeh, but when, and if, Cervelo ever sells one of those California frames, I guarantee it's gonna be painted... Those people can't resist covering a frame with grams of crappy glossy black and white paint.


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## willhs

I think we're getting a little extreme on the other end of the spectrum now. 

I think that the big companies definitely deserve a lot of credit for pushing the envelope and helping to make cycling into the awesome sport it is. But... it's just a little bit pricey for the high end, and there are alternative ways to get the features in a different package. I think the point of this thread is that it's definitely a viable way to build up a bike, and it works well for many people (myself included). We need more photos!


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## MarvinK

The Neo frame does look nice (and modern). I saw the group buy on another forum. I think that guy is thinking about making his frames not look cheap and generic.


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## gandini

I know this thread is about USD500-600 Ebay frames, and I'll stop posting, but my Neo Ultimate cost 3x that. It's a high end frame by any one's standards, and is made in the same factory that makes other very high end frames (that are painted and assembled in the EU.)
btw, EU companies are not run by idiots--they understand outsourcing and globalization as well as anyone in the US. They are not going to stand by and go out of business, and if sourcing frames from China is one way to avoid that, they'll go for it.
It's just that some creative Chinese entrepreneurs have decided to direct market into a niche that clearly exists.
And as someone said above, by offering more choice this is all good for the consumer.


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## robpar

Rob81 said:


> sincerely better for us buyers, the more the hate the less they're going to rise the price to make them more trendy.
> OT/ the new Cervelo prototype (California 700 circa grams) is all black carbon naked, blahhhhh, horrible....no.... wait it's going to be sold for 9000$....will be a success then!


I own one of these clones. I like it. I think this is similar to the war in furniture design (I am an architect) For a long time I felt I had to buy the "original" (from Italy or Sweden); I always found a reason why the "knock-offs" were bad. Today, I do projects and clients are perfectly happy with very high quality "imitations" but at half the price. Actually, the "clones" have forced the "brand names" to improve their products and in many instances the clones are actually better than the originals. Also, many of the clone manufacturers will customize for no extra charge (the same is happening with these carbon frames; custom paint, custom parts, etc) What a lot of people don't realize is that this may be the future business model in the bike world. Who knows, maybe in few years you can order your custom derailleurs, custom shifters, custom cassettes etc. from a retailer/manufacturer in some part of the world and have it on your bike in a couple of days.


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## bushidokawi

Hi guys,

I recently crashed a trek 2.1c bike ( stupid cage came out of a parking structure and I tboned it) so now I'm looking at a replacement frame, fork, and headset.

My 2.1 trek had an alluminum frame with carbon fork and carbon rear. I was looking at the Kuota Kredo replica frame and the hong Fu frames and also I found a motobecane frame on ebay thats alluminum with a carbon fork for $300. I'm pretty broke due to the economy so price is definitely a factor but i definitely don't want anything to break either in 6 months.

I was going to port my trek seat, wheels and components to the new frame. What do you guys suggest that I do?

The asian frames have a 31.2mm seat versus my 27.2mm so i might need to buy spacers or a new seat post?

Is the asian frame better than motobecane? I personally have never heard of them before

Here's a picture of my trek back when it was still in one piece :-( (/cries)


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## stevesbike

have you considered whether the Trek can be repaired - send pics to Calfee, who does carbon repairs. Even complete breaks can often be repaired


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## bushidokawi

mine is not that bad, but after taking it to the shop, they are telling me that i need a new frame and fork. The frame is probably bent by about 5 degrees and its got some good sized creases in both top and botton tube. The fork tube is also bent by a little bit but nothing major.


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## lalahsghost

bushidokawi - would trek not give you a cash replacement value on your totaled bike? For a 2.1, they'd give you at least half of what the frame is worth, no?

Also, what size frame do you need because I have a classified ad here on rbr and trying to sell my frame (50cm) since I am now unemployed and have college loans that need paid. I was going to buy a cross frame, but I'm super desperate now. Has around 1000-1200 miles on it. (one season)

https://classifieds.roadbikereview.com/showproduct.php?product=19235&cat=16


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## bushidokawi

i use a 56cm frame. I contacted trek and my dealer about it and I was told about $750 for a 2009 replacement frame for the 2.1. BUT i have to pay the labor to the shop to do the trasnfer or else they wont warranty the bike. So almost 1k just to fix the bike. The dealer is trying to get me to trade the bike in and buy a brand new bike at a small discount which sucks because I as well am feeling the pinch of the economy. This is why I was looking at the ebay carbon frame, for $400 i can basically upgrade my frame to full carbon.

I also saw a motobecane le champion frame on ebay ( aluminum with carbon fork and headset) 300 minus bing cashback, so that may be another option, but the ebay carbon frame sure looks appealing.

here the link to the motobecane
http://cgi.ebay.com/NEW-MOTOBECANE-...dZViewItemQQptZRoad_Bikes?hash=item5881128d2c

I'm torn as what to do right now.


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## tarzan13

hi,

Did anyone recently request a quote for the hong-fu FM015 frame? I was quoted $350 for frame only, which seems quite high. Just wondering if anyone else received a better quote recently. Given that all these frames are produced by the same manufacturer (probably greatkeen), perhaps i should consider buying them from another distributor.

any suggestions, thanks,


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## HeluvaSkier

tarzan13 said:


> Did anyone recently request a quote for the hong-fu FM015 frame?


That seems about right to me. I purchased the 015-SPL with BB30 and it was about $500 shipped with the frame, fork, stubby seat post, headset, an extra derailleur hanger, and a few carbon spacers. It arrived in January. I ordered the frame in uni-directional carbon and it looks really nice. If I ordered another one I might get it in UD matte finish instead of gloss, but the gloss still looks great. I built two of the "Kredo" frames last year and just handling and starting to build up the 015-SPL it feels like a much higher quality frame and fork. 

FWIW - I recommend purchasing a lighter stubby post, or buying the non-ISP frame. I weighed mine and it came in at an astonishing 180g. I ended up buying a Ritchey WCS Stubby to replace it (should shave almost 50g).


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## Pemo

Appy-polly-loggies if the answers are already lurking somewhere on the interweb, but I was wondering if anybody had weighed their Hong Fu FM015 (non-ISP) and matching fork. Please quote frame size and what bits the weight includes. Also, what's the consensus view on the impact if any of the outermost weave on strength and weight?


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## foofighter

that sounds right


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## tarzan13

HeluvaSkier said:


> That seems about right to me. I purchased the 015-SPL with BB30 and it was about $500 shipped with the frame, fork, stubby seat post, headset, an extra derailleur hanger, and a few carbon spacers. It arrived in January. I ordered the frame in uni-directional carbon and it looks really nice. If I ordered another one I might get it in UD matte finish instead of gloss, but the gloss still looks great. I built two of the "Kredo" frames last year and just handling and starting to build up the 015-SPL it feels like a much higher quality frame and fork.
> 
> FWIW - I recommend purchasing a lighter stubby post, or buying the non-ISP frame. I weighed mine and it came in at an astonishing 180g. I ended up buying a Ritchey WCS Stubby to replace it (should shave almost 50g).


Thanks for the info. I was already planning on getting the non-ISP version as it provides me with more flexibility. I was considering the 3k matt unpainted matt version but perhaps should consider the UD matt one. are you able to upload a photo of your bike in gloss finish, 

Lastly, is anyone using this frame for daily commuting? Need to do about 50km/day. Should i stick to an Alu frame instead?


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## kronis

HeluvaSkier, are you able to take a few shots of the frame? I would like to see how the UD finish look like..


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## HeluvaSkier

kronis said:


> HeluvaSkier, are you able to take a few shots of the frame? I would like to see how the UD finish look like..


Sure. It might take me a few days though. None of the cameras are charged right now and I'm currently in the middle of building another bike for a friend. 

Within the next month I should have the 015-SPL completed. I'll have pics of just the frame up by next week sometime. Its going to be 2010 Force BB30 with Reynolds Assault wheels, SLR Carbino Flow saddle, and FSA K-Wing bar and OS-99 stem. If my calculations are correct it should come in around 15lbs... Not WW, but a solid build on what I hope is a really solid frame. Time will tell, but for $500 I can buy 5 of these frames for the price I'd pay for a comparable name brand bike. I'm surprised more people (the non-independently wealthy) don't race these frames...


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## rossj

Heluvaskier, did you get the 015-SPL directly through alibaba or by some other means? I looked at the bike that I think you are describing but I am really not familiar with that site, that, and alibaba just seems sketchy. However, I would love that frame in the UD with some white paint. Is it possible to make that kind of deal. How do I go about getting what you got. PM me if necessary.


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## HeluvaSkier

rossj said:


> Heluvaskier, did you get the 015-SPL directly through alibaba or by some other means?


Hong-Fu Bikes. I'll send you the details.


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## PLAYONIT

Wow Greg..... can't wait to see it!!!!! sorry I just got your PM..... I guess you must have got it??? I am almost done with mine.. I put it on the back burner for a few weeks while I got addicted to watches.. Ha.... here's a couple of bad pics.... I will PM you later I have a couple of questions...


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## Grabeef

Pemo said:


> Appy-polly-loggies if the answers are already lurking somewhere on the interweb, but I was wondering if anybody had weighed their Hong Fu FM015 (non-ISP) and matching fork. Please quote frame size and what bits the weight includes. Also, what's the consensus view on the impact if any of the outermost weave on strength and weight?



3k weave. Non ISP. 55cm frame. Frame weight 1091g and the fork 400g but both weights include the plastic shipping bars that go between the front and rear dropouts. I don't think those bits of plastic weigh much though.
Also, regarding outermost weave, it looks like mine is 3k all through.


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## HeluvaSkier

My fork was 390g with the plastic shipping bar. After it was cut it is down to 340g. 

Regarding the weave - my UD is only cosmetic. Looking at the frame and fork, it appears that 3k was used throughout.


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## j-man

*heres mine*

only ridden it about 80 miles total but seems to me like a decent bike


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## mattcchambers

I've been riding mine for about 6 months. It's a great bike, but it's a little scary that
you can see the downtube flex when you squeeze it between your thumb and
index finger. Does the Kuota Kredo have the same amount of flex in the downtube?


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## bikemanMD

*Wheres bicycle_999?*

Just looked for bicycle_999 on ebay. Was able to find the store and all the feedback, but theres nothing for sale in their store. Anyone know what the deal is with that?


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## willhs

I don't have any flex in mine, definitely not between my fingers. You have quite the collection there. I'm especially interested in the TT bike -- how is that frame?


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## HeluvaSkier

bikemanMD said:


> Just looked for bicycle_999 on ebay. Was able to find the store and all the feedback, but theres nothing for sale in their store. Anyone know what the deal is with that?


It tends to come and go in waves... There are plenty of others out there that are just as reliable.


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## j-man

found flex im my downtube and top tube


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## MarvinK

I guess that makes for a more comfortable ride? :S


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## j-man

just found out that the frames don't drain water well. i was cleaning my bike and i turned it over to get under the frame and about half a cup of water poured out of the seat tube. so if you ride in the rain you need to remember to drain the frame.


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## willhs

MarvinK are you just the resident sarcastic fear mongerer of this thread? You have no interest in these frames and you've never used one, why do you stick around?


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## ms6073

j-man said:


> just found out that the frames don't drain water well.


I doubt this is limited soley to these frames because without a little TLC to clean out 'stuff' from the drain holes, I suspect most monocoque style frames experience problems with water retention. Only getting 8 oz. of water out of my 09' Giant TCR Advanced SL after a wet ride would be a welcome change as I have drained a lot more water than that after getting caught in a deluge. If I took the time to ensure the drain holes werre open and free of blockage so that they actually drained, then the frame would probably collect a lot less water.


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## mattcchambers

willhs said:


> I don't have any flex in mine, definitely not between my fingers. You have quite the collection there. I'm especially interested in the TT bike -- how is that frame?


Actually, it's not the time trial frame, but a track frame. I like it very much. It developed
a small crack in the rear of the seat tube. It hasn't grown and does not seem to be a 
problem. I did point it out to the seller and after exchanging multiple emails and sending
some pics, he sent me a replacement. It's highly unlikely that I would have been treated
this way by the big names.


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## ms6073

mattcchambers said:


> It's highly unlikely that I would have been treated
> this way buy the big names.


At least not without some additional cash changing hands.


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## mattcchambers

ms6073 said:


> At least not without some additional cash changing hands.



And sending the cracked frame to them at my expense.


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## Rob81

any new frames?
I saw this on Alibaba http://www.greatkeen.com.cn/product..._road_frame_frame_set_road_bicycle_parts.html
and even if it's just a 3d model it seems a new frame, light too.
Another thing, the wights they claim are usally spot on, big names tend to lie about them!

Anyone can poin to alternatives to bicycle_999? I need another saddle they used to sell!
Another Q, anyone using a TT frame as road frame (for aero purpose)?
TY


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## Dajianshan

That looks like a Velocite Magnus with the integrated seat post option. 
http://www.velocite-bikes.com/

Contact RBR member vmajor on the Magnus which he says is designed and engineered by his company Velocite.


----------



## Rob81

I did some researches and yes it's their new frame for 2010
Price 390-480$
1000g
name Fm028
Available soon!

But tubes shapes look different from the Velocite.


----------



## Dajianshan

It is hard to tell in the graphic. Pretty darned close.

Oh... I see... it looks like they reversed the DT shaping. Flip it around.


----------



## vmajor

Um no...I do not know what that other frame is. The front triangle bears striking resemblance, but the BB area seems to be smaller on the no-brand one, and the down tube rib is more pronounced (we try to avoid sharp corners). Also the no-brand chainstays and seatstays and indeed dropouts are completely different.

Perhaps they were inspired by the Magnus 

V.


----------



## MarvinK

I'd say the knock-off looks like a nicer riding bike that the Magnus, especially with the thinner rear triangle. Then again, maybe it's the angle.


----------



## HeluvaSkier

MarvinK said:


> I'd say the knock-off looks like a nicer riding bike that the Magnus, especially with the thinner rear triangle. Then again, maybe it's the angle.


I think that's an unfair assumption to make without riding both bikes or seeing any geometry information on either bike.


----------



## Jim311

Well that picture is all blown up and could be stretched out of proportion.


----------



## Dajianshan

On his blog, Victor mentions that they have an "open mold" and so there may be bikes that look identical to his out on the market. 

I imagine this means the OEM has a basic mold (which may be what we are seeing) and different companies can choose the details... seat most, stays, BB stiffness and some of the other design to make it "theirs". Possibly.


----------



## vmajor

That is what I thought when I first saw that unbranded frame. I thought they went with the Magnus front triangle. However when I looked a bit closer (kind of hard given the low resolution of that rendering) with monocoque designs you cannot choose if you want a 1.5" asymmetric head tube or not, or BB30 or not. Monocoque molds are not modular - ie. you are "stuck" with the shape. You can sometimes bore out the molds, but you cannot grow them back ie. shrink the BB30 back to the smaller BSA/ISO 

Two other giveaways are that the unbranded frame uses a completely different structural drawing program to what our factory uses, and the rear dropouts are entirely different. "Our" factory uses a very special design with all their and our models...the only way that particular dropout on the unbranded frame could have come from "our" factory is if the unbranded frame's dropouts are the low end (cheaper) cast alloy ones.

Lastly as already mentioned, the tube profiling on the front triangle looks different (rear triangle is completely different) and that is not possible when using monocoque molds for reasons mentioned earlier.

That unbranded frame looks like a homage to the Magnus, which is kind of flattering really 

V.


----------



## Dajianshan

It could be, and I know this sounds absolutely preposterous in dealings between Chinese factories, but it could be that someone at the factory that produces the Magnus has taken the design and passed it on to a different company for a couple of shekels. It happens in the tech industry all the time. That could just be the new render of the base design. With intellectual property laws in China the way they are, a few changes here and there (I think you need 12 differences to qualify) and it becomes a legally "different" frame. It is really hard to tell if the BB and the DT are the same and if the "sharp" edges are the result of the digital modeling program.


----------



## vmajor

Yes, but it is not just the Chinese companies. Our designer of soon to be unveiled aero road frame had an issue with a major European brand that liked one of his designs so much that they made a veritable replica, however they made sufficient changes (about 10% from memory) so that his infringement complaint could not stick.

I also need to mention that without knowing anything about that non-branded frame, and given its very low stated price it is important to keep this quote from my blog in mind:



> The second feature of carbon fiber composite products and the manufacturing process is that the same mold can be used to make vastly different products. Think of the carbon fiber mold as a cookie or a pastry mold. You can get the same shape whether you are cutting cookie dough, or cardboard, but only one of them will taste nice after baking.


V.


----------



## rruff

Rob81 said:


> I did some researches and yes it's their new frame for 2010
> Price 390-480$
> 1000g
> name Fm028
> Available soon!


Where can you get one? Site says minimum order of 20.


----------



## Rob81

usually they sell a single one but with an increased price. From infos I got, price should be in the range of the FM015.


----------



## ckeen

Looks exactly like the Stradalli Milano frames on ebay too. Search for Stradalli bike and see what I mean.


----------



## PatricioP14

http://forums.roadbikereview.com/showthread.php?p=2656725#poststop

Check it out!

Patrick


----------



## vmajor

ckeen said:


> Looks exactly like the Stradalli Milano frames on ebay too. Search for Stradalli bike and see what I mean.


Well not exactly the same, but yes that is the same mold.

It is a good example of the same mold producing different frames.

Some of the visible differences are:

Magnus uses a special UD carbon layup, not 3k
Magnus uses carbon BB30 shell (and head tube races), not alloy
Magnus uses a different fork

There may be other invisible differences with the manufacturing process and of course we have our own stiffness targets...

EDIT: fur future stumbles on this post and for completeness sake here is some more information. Think of the Velocite approach as comparable to the Specialized S-Works line, or Cannondale Hi-Mod and even Canyon EVO range. All of these high end frames come from the same mold as their cheaper and more common versions, but are entirely different products with much higher performance parameters.

V.


----------



## MaddSkillz

Whoa! This is pretty cool! I've been wanting a carbon frame so bad but unfortunately, just don't have access to those types of funds. I've looked at the Cannondale SuperSix 3 and the Scott R2 and the Tarmac Pro... And really, I didn't want to go to lower makes of that model because essentially they're all the good frames with less costing groupo's... I must say, I'm sick and tired of wanting a new carbon frame. I'm really going to start to investigate these frames. The only site I've found is this one. Are there any others? 

And I'm looking for a very aggressive frame. Something similar to a Tarmac geometry that can put me low in the drops. I currently ride a Specialized Allez Elite in a 58. 

Any pointers and advice is welcome! 

Thanks!!!!


----------



## ansetou

*88bikefun*

i've been hunting for a frame for my wife. she ideally needs a TT about 48 cm which is very hard to find. so i came across this one:
http://cgi.ebay.com/Brand-New-Full-...Road_Bikes?hash=item563a38a05f#ht_1664wt_1165

which is a bit longer and i'm thinking about getting one of those reversible seat post to compensate for the ~1.5 cm diff. I have a few questions:
1. Is this a good seller to deal w/?
2. how accurate are their sizes and weight spec?
3. would u recommending getting the fork from them too?

I already have a 31.8 seat post and they don't seem to have 38cm handlebar so all I need from them are the frame, force and some small stuffs. Your help is greatly appreciated.


----------



## roshea

ansetou said:


> i've been hunting for a frame for my wife. she ideally needs a TT about 48 cm which is very hard to find. so i came across this one:
> http://cgi.ebay.com/Brand-New-Full-...Road_Bikes?hash=item563a38a05f#ht_1664wt_1165
> 
> which is a bit longer and i'm thinking about getting one of those reversible seat post to compensate for the ~1.5 cm diff..


You should NOT compensate for a too-long top tube by moving the saddle forward!

For a proper fit, you need to get the saddle in the correct location relative to the bottom bracket, since this affects weight balance, muscle usage and power output. This position often coincides (roughly) with Knee Over Pedal Spindle (KOPS - google it!). I won't go into arguments for or against KOPS, but it is often in the right ballpark for a correct fit. Once the saddle is in the right place, altering stem length or height is used to set the reach correctly.


----------



## dunlop kid

Hey Guys,

Really want one of these framesets, but just wondering if the frame is really flexy when you ride it?Also has anyone had any problems with crack in the carbon fiber?

Also anyone done bussiness with Lin off Flyxxi Bikes ltd?She takes paypal and also sells on ebay?

Thanks Guys


----------



## kargok9

*H/F 015 Completion*

As promised, I said that I would post information and pics of the finished H/F 015. To recap, after repeated exchanges with H/F rep Jenny Liu, my wife ordered her bike and associated parts on 10 Dec. The box indicates that it left Hong Kong on the 11th of Dec and was delivered to my door on the morning of the 16th. As I also mentioned in a previous post, I'm a retired pilot for an overnight company and I found this feat absolutely remarkable. 

I also mentioned in a previous post, we had intended to build the H/F with cannabalized parts from her trophy Colnago that cracked it's headtube (now an Object D'Art). In the interim, a racerhead friend decided to turn to the "red side" and dispose of his 7900 grouppo with an FSA-K lite/ceramic crank. With the bits, pieces, cables and such along with this gruppo, I set about putting the bike together.

The result is a bike that my envious friends call "stunning". It really did turn out better than I had imagined. With the assistance of her bro, a graphic artist and the owner of our favorite sushi restaurant, the Hattori Hanzo theme for the bike was produced. 

Hattori Hanzo as you'll remember was one of 3 15th century Samurai clans that made and perfected the use of the legendary Hanzo sword later made famous in the movie "Kill Bill". The sword was allededly sharp enough to cut God. 

The build started with the application of the graphics package, installation of the FSA-K light ceramic crankset, the D/A 10 group, white Specialized Ruby saddle, white seatpost collar, white Jagwire cables and finally, white Lizardsking bar tape. Mounting the American Classic Carbon Ceramic 58's finished the package. 

If this bike would have been available some time back, I would not be campaigning my coveted Cervelo R3 now. 

My wife is recovering from minor surgery and has yet to put the first mile on it. Stay tuned.....!


Forgot to add.....15.01 pounds w/o pedals.


----------



## willhs

Wow, that is absolutely beautiful. Where'd you get the wheels?


----------



## bdeande

*Awesome looking frame*

Where did you get it?



vaetuning said:


> Hi all
> 
> Here is some pictures of the final build
> 
> Even though it is very cold in Denmark right now (-6 celcious), I went for a little ride, just to see if it drives as it looks - it does - good, that is!!
> 
> Compared to my Scott CR-1 ´09 - still the old frame without the new comfort build in, it rides very nice, it does not feel as if you're sitting on a torture device, like the Scott sometimes does, when ridden on harsh roads, but it sure feels as if you're getting all the power to the rear wheel - it actually feels a little bit faster than the Scott.
> 
> There where no odd sounds from the frame whatsoever, and it tracks very surefooted, turns nice, has a very good balance and generally feels like a much more expensive frame than it is.
> 
> Of course I'll have to ride somemore when the weather gets better, but so far I like it very much.
> 
> The Driven group does NOT feel like a shimano 105 group - it is super precise in the shifts.
> It makes no odd noises,
> The ceramic crank bearings are as smooth as my Super Record on my Scott - Its simply the best value for money I've ever ridden.
> And it has got the lovely "clunk" when I shift gears - just like my campagnolo groupos - nice:thumbsup:
> 
> Cheers


----------



## kargok9

*H/F 015 Completion*

Thank you for the kind words. The wheels are American Classic Carbon 58's with ceramics. It is the 015 frame and parts set from Hong Fu.com. Jenny Liu [email protected].


----------



## vanterminator

correct me if im wrong, the wheels look used. maybe got em off your wife's old bike?
if you bought the wheels from H/F and Jenny, please keep us updated on their performance.


----------



## Don Duende

Very nice.
Did you get a BB30 crankset or use an adapter? 
What is the top tube measurement?


----------



## kargok9

*H/F 015 Completion*

The wheels are not new. They are American Classic carbon 58's. Those familiar with the wheels know that American Classic uses exactly the same (non-dimpled) wheels used by Zipp on the flagship 404's.

This frame does not have a BB30 crankset. Another frame that I have ordered from Jenny will have it. Jenny advises that a BB30 compatible frame takes a 70 day lead time. I'll let you know.

The top tube measurement from the engineering drawing sent by Jenny is 530.4 and 520.6 real and virtual.

Hope this helps.


----------



## Sidmyre

My current project. 90% completed, will post more pics when finished.


----------



## Preved

> The build started with the application of the graphics package


wow this is just an amazing work! :thumbsup: 
i wonder where can i order such package ?


----------



## kdtx

Here's mine. About 400 miles so far. About 16.75 with pedals. Painted and logo-ed it myself. 

(sorry for the double post)


----------



## kdtx

Heres mine. 400 miles so far. Painted and logo-ed it myself. 16.75 with pedals (sorry I race cross and like eggbeaters). Flame away!

(sorry for double post. first reply got squished into middle of thread so I reposted again at the end)


----------



## willhs

Damn that is a cool paint job. Nice play on the poka-dot jersey theme, and I like the logos.


----------



## micuthegreat

That is hot!!! good job. how much did the paint cost?


----------



## kdtx

Thanks! It was* free* plus the cost of paint! I did it myself including waterslide decals made on the computer. My major was in fine art so it comes in handy some times.


----------



## Crash_Enburn

kdtx said:


> Heres mine. 400 miles so far. Painted and logo-ed it myself. 16.75 with pedals.


*Very* nice use of existing brands and imagery w/o falsely branding the frame. Kudos to you! :thumbsup:


----------



## stevesbike

looks great - can waterslide decals be used over clearcoat as well (does it need additional adhesive etc)? thanks


----------



## willhs

I agree that I personally don't like false branding. When people create their own names for their bike, that's cool. I also just like patterns, or bare carbon.


----------



## ckeen

Great looking bike kdtx. I am impressed. Care to share with others the process by which you used to paint yours? Brand of paint used, equipment you used, etc? Might make a nice write up!


----------



## kdtx

Here is the process I followed for decals and paint. This is my Bianchi but used the same process on this frame. Only exception is I didn't use acetone on the carbon frame. I sanded only. Pretty simple really and is holding up well. (on both bikes). Sorry these are on BF but all the info is there. Also, the finished decals should have a clear coat over them. Would probably scratch to easy without it.

Decals: 
http://www.bikeforums.net/showthread.php?520894-Make-your-own-Decals&p=10511709#post10511709

Paint:
http://www.bikeforums.net/showthread.php?519640-Bianchi-repainted-Celeste-teaser&highlight=

Bianchi road to cyclocross conversion:
http://www.bikeforums.net/showthread.php?587041-Conversion-Complete!-Steel-Bianchi-road-bike-to-CX!&highlight=

I throw the cross conversion on here because I wanted to show everyone that the rattle can paint can hold up if done correctly! This bike was abused this past fall, was muddy, sandy, gritty, and paint held up great. Many washings with a soapwater/brush and still no peeling or scratches!


----------



## Rob81

FM028 from greatkeen
Source www.bdc-forum.it/showthread.php?t=90218&page=160

I like it and price should be similar to the Fm015


----------



## Alderman21

*Pseudo Pinarello Bike*

Just getting back into road biking and ordered one of the Ebay CF frames with classic geometry in 54 cm and have pieced together almost all Dura Ace 7800 components (tripple crank, I live in the driftless area of Western WI). I built my own wheels using DT Swiss 585 rims and DA 7700 hubs which I believe came out heavier than I could have gotten elsewhere (but strong). I haven't received the frame yet (two weeks today- probably coming by camel via the silk road to the Midwest) but have done some initial weighing of components. I think I'll be at/near 18 pounds. Does this sound right? Did I miss the lead weights somewhere? Am running a Specialized Pro Al bar but everything else is pretty high end. Any thoughts on where else to save weight? Coming from riding a 1983 Fuji Del Rey, I suspect the difference will be so significant I won't care about the extra 3-4 pounds. No more down tube shifters! :thumbsup:


----------



## rruff

Rob81 said:


> FM028 from greatkeen
> I like it and price should be similar to the Fm015


I like it too... best looking cheap carbon frame I've seen


----------



## HeluvaSkier

As an FYI to anyone building an 015-SPL (integrated seat post model from Hong-Fu) - the stubby post is not a 34.9. It appears that it is actually a 35.9 outside diameter seat mast so to fit a different seat mast you will need a stubby post with a ~35.9mm inside diameter [EDIT: On further inspection it looks like it might even be bigger than 35.9mm - maybe a hair over 36mm. The stock ISP has an inside diameter of ~37mm. This is becoming more challenging by the minute]. I ordered a 34.9 Ritchey Stubby thinking the seat tube was the same diameter for it's entire length (before I received the frame)...not so. I'm currently investigating a few other lighter-weight options for the clamp and I will report back with what I find out - if anything. BTW - pics of the UD finish are on the way...


----------



## raymonda

*1 season of riding*

Just a quick update. I have ridden this bike for 1 year or around 3,000 miles. Everything I stated in the past is true today. The fit and finish may not be on par with mega buck carbon, albeit acceptable, but the ride is. It is comfortable, stiff and a great handling bike. There is barely any flex in the BB and it transmits power accordingly. There are a few of these older models on ebay for about $200.00 less than what I paid and they come with a fork. If it is your size you can't go wrong. But please read my prior postings for prep concerns.

BTW, weight is 14.30 lbs, fully dressed as you see it.


----------



## willhs

Very excellent. Your bike was actually the inspiration that got me started. I have about the same amount of miles on mine and I totally agree. When I picked mine up, I actually arranged a package deal with one of the sellers for frame, fork, seatpost, water bottle cages, headset, stem and handlebars shipped for $550. That provided a very inexpensive base to build on. It's a little pricier for the SRAM grouppos on ebay right now, but with bing cashback you can still get full Red for ~$1,200. Rival is still very good, and you get get that closer to $600. Then, all you need is wheels, tubes, tires, tape, and a seat.

It's a great way to go if you want to pick out every aspect of your bike. There are a lot of different geometries on ebay, so if you know what you want from a frame you can be pretty specific. You can also get any grouppo you want, or even mix and match to save money where you don't need to spend it (Rival's FD is the same as Force, which is put on Pro's Red groups, for example).

For my less OCD friends, I recommend Bikesdirect or Neuvation, since it's actually cheaper than going this route in most cases and less of a hassle... and ultimately that hassle would be put on me. ;-)


----------



## HeluvaSkier

As promised - here are some mid-build pics of my 015-SPL with UD carbon weave and BB30. Sorry the camera and indoor basement lighting sucks a little bit... 

As an update to the integrated seatpost clamp saga, I think I have confirmed that it is a 35.9mm mast. As a test I just ordered a different stubby post (Woodman this time) in the 35.9mm size. If it fits I'll let everyone know. Supposedly it is only 95g, so it is 80-90g lighter than the stock seatpost head that came with the frame. It should arrive sometime next week I think.


----------



## IRMB

HeluvaSkier said:


> As promised - here are some mid-build pics of my 015-SPL with UD carbon weave and BB30. Sorry the camera and indoor basement lighting sucks a little bit...
> 
> As an update to the integrated seatpost clamp saga, I think I have confirmed that it is a 35.9mm mast. As a test I just ordered a different stubby post (Woodman this time) in the 35.9mm size. If it fits I'll let everyone know. Supposedly it is only 95g, so it is 80-90g lighter than the stock seatpost head that came with the frame. It should arrive sometime next week I think.


Is it me or are these frames only available in smallish sizes? I am 6'3", with short legs for my height. Is the large hongfu #15 going to fit?

Any other chinese manufacturers that sell direct that make larger frames?

Thanks!


----------



## HeluvaSkier

I'm 5'7" - that is a 51cm frame (~53cm virtual TT). They have 3 or 4 sizes larger than the size I ordered.


----------



## IRMB

HeluvaSkier said:


> I'm 5'7" - that is a 50cm frame (53cm virtual TT). They have 3 or 4 sizes larger than the size I ordered.


Thanks - fit help requested.

I am coming from a 200/2001 Kestrel 200 - size 61 (center to top). It has a 58cm top tub - measured center to center, horizontally from top of stem through the seat post.

I am not used to the newer compact frames with sloping top tube. Is a 58 anywhere near as big as my old school 61?

Judging from hongfu's site, the 58 is going to be 10mm shorter than my kestrel. Of course I run a straight thomson post - so I could always get one with a little set back to make up this difference.

Thanks again.


----------



## HeluvaSkier

IRMB said:


> Thanks - fit help requested.
> 
> I am coming from a 200/2001 Kestrel 200 - size 61 (center to top). It has a 58cm top tub - measured center to center, horizontally from top of stem through the seat post.
> 
> I am not used to the newer compact frames with sloping top tube. Is a 58 anywhere near as big as my old school 61?
> 
> Judging from hongfu's site, the 58 is going to be 10mm shorter than my kestrel. Of course I run a straight thomson post - so I could always get one with a little set back to make up this difference.
> 
> Thanks again.


What size stem do you run? FWIW, I feel like these frames actually run a little big. I would normally ride a 52-54 frame depending on the geometry, etc. I went smaller on this frame because the geometry seemed to get very big as the sizes increased. Also note - the top tube listing is the actual I think. The virtual (horizontal) would be longer. I think if you ask the will send you that drawings of the frame size you are looking to order. If it isn't listed, you can usually do a little math and figure out the horizontal top tube length.


----------



## IRMB

HeluvaSkier said:


> What size stem do you run? FWIW, I feel like these frames actually run a little big. I would normally ride a 52-54 frame depending on the geometry, etc. I went smaller on this frame because the geometry seemed to get very big as the sizes increased. Also note - the top tube listing is the actual I think. The virtual (horizontal) would be longer. I think if you ask the will send you that drawings of the frame size you are looking to order. If it isn't listed, you can usually do a little math and figure out the horizontal top tube length.


I run a 100 mil stem - my seat post is straight and the seat is a little forward of center on the rails. I'll email jenny and ask for more specs. thanks.


----------



## athletic91

Has anyhere actually place a order and receive the bike from great keen?


----------



## Rob81

i bought mine from greatkeen


----------



## skyline377

Rob81 said:


> FM028 from greatkeen
> Source www.bdc-forum.it/showthread.php?t=90218&page=160
> 
> I like it and price should be similar to the Fm015




I too like this frame very much, is this available yet??


----------



## dunlop kid

So great Keen is fine to buy from?Did you speak to Adam Zhong?and also did you pay by paypal through any site?

Thanks


----------



## Rob81

I was in contact and still is with Tony.
Fm028 is available both in ISP and non-ISP version but only in size 54 so far, other sizes will follow in the next months, I guess they need to build up the moulds.
Always Paypal even if it has addictional costs, it'd be for sure a safer way to pay for these transactions.
I must thank raymonda because his build, experience and posts in the previous thread(s) insipred me to buy the ebay frame, then another (greatkeen)....and maybe soon the 3rd one


----------



## ntb1001

.....


----------



## iherald

And here come the flames about putting Cannondale on your bike...


----------



## willhs

Shun!


----------



## ntb1001

iherald said:


> And here come the flames about putting Cannondale on your bike...


Why not? It looks good, and it makes my 10 year old happy about his bike.


----------



## mattcchambers

Why not? You're absolutely correct, you bought the frame and the decals. You're giving
Cannondale name exposure they didn't pay for, unless you're shouting out "It's not really 
a Cannondale!" to anyone who takes a look at the bike. I think it looks great.


----------



## ansetou

anyone knows a better way to contact 88bikefun? he/she is very not responsive. i've been trying to order a 44cm frame w/ a fork from them and couldn't get answer on the combined cost. the reason i have to ask them is because they have this one 44 cm frame that's 49.4 cm in the top tube. but it's not offered as a frame set (w/ fork). The one 44 cm frameset actually shows a toptube length of 53.1 cm although it looks very much like the "shorter" frame. 

has anyone found a small frame from these chinese sellers that actually have a short (<50cm) horizontal top tube? Thanks,


----------



## ntb1001

ansetou said:


> anyone knows a better way to contact 88bikefun? he/she is very not responsive. i've been trying to order a 44cm frame w/ a fork from them and couldn't get answer on the combined cost. the reason i have to ask them is because they have this one 44 cm frame that's 49.4 cm in the top tube. but it's not offered as a frame set (w/ fork). The one 44 cm frameset actually shows a toptube length of 53.1 cm although it looks very much like the "shorter" frame.
> 
> has anyone found a small frame from these chinese sellers that actually have a short (<50cm) horizontal top tube? Thanks,


The frame I showed here is a 48cm frame from "anybaby8088" and it has a top tube of 50cm. I don't think that they had a 44cm, but send Jenny a email to find out. She is very quick in responding.
I also bought a frame earlier from '88bikefun' with no problems at all, but that 48 cm frame had a 52 cm top tube.

I hope this helps.


----------



## ms6073

dunlop kid said:


> Did you speak to Adam Zhong?and also did you pay by paypal


I originally planned to order a Giant Trinity Advanced SL frameset but due to popularity and demand, Giant apparently sold out nearly the entire US allocation by November of last year. As a backup, while I was prepared to spend several thousand for the Giant frameset, I opted instead to spend ~$650 and ordered one of those carbon tt framesets that I find somewhat similar to the Cervelo P3. Order mine with two color paint and paid with PayPal and despite the fact that Tony is on the backside of the US clock, he has been very responsive and helpful and I am hoping to have the finished frameset in my hands later this week:


----------



## ansetou

ntb, thx for the info. i looked into that 48cm frame. the problem is i think the stand over height is going to be too high for my wife. mind if I ask how tall is the rider for your 48cm bike and the inseam? i think my wife's inseam is about 29"


----------



## willhs

I completely dig the design on the Cannondale. If that kind of paint job was available a year ago, I would have definitely customized mine.


----------



## ntb1001

ansetou said:


> ntb, thx for the info. i looked into that 48cm frame. the problem is i think the stand over height is going to be too high for my wife. mind if I ask how tall is the rider for your 48cm bike and the inseam? i think my wife's inseam is about 29"


My son is 4'11. The bike is to big for him, but with the design of the frame, with the seat fairly low, his positioning on the bike is good.He just leans the bike over when standing over the top tube, but when he is upright & riding it's fine.


----------



## j-man

*wow check this out!*

http://cgi.ebay.com/Carbon-Triathlo...dZViewItemQQptZRoad_Bikes?hash=item2559699da7
i think that is VERY NICE!


----------



## stevesbike

j-man said:


> http://cgi.ebay.com/Carbon-Triathlo...dZViewItemQQptZRoad_Bikes?hash=item2559699da7
> i think that is VERY NICE!


look up a few posts....


----------



## ms6073

That looks familiar. Keep in mind that the frameset offered in that auction features a standard front brake but the rear brake mounts behind the bottom bracket and I am pretty sure will requires a center pull style brake like those offered by Tektro and Oval Concepts.


----------



## willhs

ms6073 what type of brakes does your frame have?


----------



## mikeschn

ntb1001 said:


> I just finished this build for my son. It's a size 48 from jenny on ebay.
> They painted for me as I requested, they even sent a computer generated proof for approval. I am very satisfied with the entire transaction.


Good looking paint job and decals... what's Jenny's handle on ebay? 

Thanks, 

Mikey


----------



## PLAYONIT

mikeschn said:


> Good looking paint job and decals... what's Jenny's handle on ebay?
> 
> Thanks,
> 
> Mikey



Don't bother with ebay go to:

http://www.hongfu-bikes.com/about.asp?Id=5


----------



## ms6073

willhs said:


> what type of brakes does your frame have?


I do not yet have it in hand, but the front brake is nothing special, but the images for the rear brake sent to me from Adam is of a Tektro T726R in satin finish.


----------



## tthome

this is my LiveSTRONG inspired ebay frame. Made it last year..full Dura-Ace now...pics show SRAM Rival.

http://picasaweb.google.com/tthome/CustomLiveSTRONGBikeBuild#


----------



## mikeschn

PLAYONIT said:


> Don't bother with ebay go to:
> 
> http://www.hongfu-bikes.com/about.asp?Id=5


Thanks PlayOnIt

Mikey


----------



## tarzan13

does anyone have any experience with Hong-fu FM080 model? if yes, what is it like - is it a worthwhile investment? Would love to get full carbon but doubt that it will survive 12k km/year commuting to and from work.

http://www.hongfu-bikes.com/Products.asp?Id=421


----------



## IRMB

Rob81 said:


> FM028 from greatkeen
> Source www.bdc-forum.it/showthread.php?t=90218&page=160
> 
> I like it and price should be similar to the Fm015


What is this frame and where is it available? I can't read the forum linked above.


----------



## BlackDoggystyle

Rob81 said:


> FM028 from greatkeen
> Source www.bdc-forum.it/showthread.php?t=90218&page=160
> 
> I like it and price should be similar to the Fm015


So..is this a future HongFu frame or not? Seller?

I was going to buy the FM015 but if I need to waight a bit longer to get a frame like this..no problem here!


----------



## stevesbike

http://dgxtkj.en.alibaba.com/produc...bon_frame_set_carbon_road_frame_and_fork.html

(go to alibaba.com, search for greatkeen or Dengfu)


----------



## BlackDoggystyle

Thx!  


I got a FM-01 and was happy I finally finished building the bike.

I had only one problem. I got my heels that go pretty much inwards and they pass the chainstays very close (left side even touches ones a while) ... and I didn't notice the flat tube section on the left side when I bought it.

I biulded the frame anyway in the hope it would not make too much of a problem but..nope....by every pedal stroke I touch the left side of the chainstay... So this frame is a NO GO! for me. 

Otherwise the frame I pretty good. Good respons too. 

So here it is...just to fill the forum with pictures


----------



## stevesbike

you can always do something like this (various ones come in different widths)
http://www.specialized.com/us/en/bc/SBCEqProduct.jsp?spid=47406&menuItemId=9309&eid=4927


----------



## BlackDoggystyle

stevesbike said:


> you can always do something like this (various ones come in different widths)
> https://www.specialized.com/us/en/bc/SBCEqProduct.jsp?spid=47406&menuItemId=9309&eid=4927



wtf :/ .... BIG THANKS HERE!

btw...already received a superfast reply from Tony (GreatKeen) with 54cm & 56cm geometry. I will post 56cm... If any need the 54cm geometry I will put it on later. 

Frame costs 390UDS (frame+fork+seatpost) and shipping to Belgium is 85USD. I think to the US it cost a bit less.

Can anyone tell me what headset fits best in there..?


----------



## rruff

BlackDoggystyle said:


> If any need the 54cm geometry I will put it on later.


Please do.

Also, did you get a fork weight? Frame is advertised as 980g in 54, which is very good, but I haven't seen a fork weight. Also, is there a choice of finish?


----------



## ms6073

BlackDoggystyle said:


> Can anyone tell me what headset fits best in there..? shipping to Belgium is 85USD. I think to the US it cost a bit less.


Should be included with the frame but from the design document, it appears to be an integrated style Cane Creek IS-8 or FSA Orbit IS Integrated Headset. As for shipping, may be because the airplane has to go the wrong way when departing China.  



rruff said:


> Also, is there a choice of finish?


If dealing with Greatkeen/DengFu, they are offering 1 and 2 color paint options for an additional cost (typically $45-$60) as well as decals and will provide a mockup image along with the invoice for you approval. Problem with custom paint is that it adds to the lead time - most tkaing standard paint and graphics will get their frame within 5-7 days but I estimate that the TT frameset I ordered with a black/white 2 color paint took more like 13-15 days to complete and ship.


----------



## stevesbike

actually it looks like a tapered fork/headset. Also looks like BB30 from the pics on their website.


----------



## BlackDoggystyle

On request 










Didn't ask the weight of the frame. I got to much body weight to go and be specific on a few 100grams of frame weight. My Pro days are over


----------



## bcmf

I got the same frame as BlackDoggyStyle and weighed it. With full uncut steerer it came in at approx 1630gms completley naked.



BlackDoggystyle said:


> Thx!
> 
> 
> I got a FM-01 and was happy I finally finished building the bike.
> 
> I had only one problem. I got my heels that go pretty much inwards and they pass the chainstays very close (left side even touches ones a while) ... and I didn't notice the flat tube section on the left side when I bought it.
> 
> I biulded the frame anyway in the hope it would not make too much of a problem but..nope....by every pedal stroke I touch the left side of the chainstay... So this frame is a NO GO! for me.
> 
> Otherwise the frame I pretty good. Good respons too.
> 
> So here it is...just to fill the forum with pictures


----------



## bcmf

Apologies its not the same.I got the one with the wavy 'onda' style fork


----------



## ms6073

stevesbike said:


> actually it looks like a tapered fork/headset.


Doh, you are correct. So now the question is did they use standard taper (ie Cane Creek 1.5 to 1 1 /8) or is this like a Giant TCR Advanced SL that has a non-standard size lower to 1 1/8 upper?


----------



## popper252

Does anyone know the seat post clamp and front derailluer size on the FM015?

I just ordered one from Jenny and I can't seem to pick it out from the geo drawings she sent me. 

Should ship on Saturday and arrive sometime next week. I'm very excited to build this up!

I've been a long time Mtn biker and this will be my first road build. 

I've been doing centuries and group rides on my Anthem X. Having 4 inches of travel and some 1 inch wide skinny tires on my mtb didn't only look ridiculous but it was a pain in the ass to Avg the 19 mph that I got during my latest century  

So I figure with a proper road bike I should be able to maintain something like 30mph up hill into a hurricane force head wind with no shoes. Easy right :thumbsup:


----------



## foofighter

Looks like 34.9mm


----------



## popper252

Ah good catch. I was looking at the 37 mm right above that and somehow missed the 34.9. 

Any confirmation on the seatpost clamp? I know it takes a 31.8 Post so most likely 34.9 as well but again I would like someone to verify it. 

Thanks!


----------



## PLAYONIT

Should have this completed by next week... I need to cut the seat post and finish assembly and apply decals... I was messing around with Photo shop tonight trying to figure out the decal scheme.. I found the name I want "Salsipuedes" which in Spanish means "Escape if you can" which I found fitting... I am going to look at some other font's over the next couple of days... But will probably go with the font pictured.. Can't wait to ride finally now that the snows gone and things are warming up... any feed back on the decal scheme ??? I was going to paint but can't see spending more for paint then what the frame cost...


----------



## foofighter

looking great so far!


----------



## lawrencemonsters

*FM 015 hongfu frame*

Has anyone ordered the fm 015 in in the 49 cm. I want to get this frame for my wife, I know the top tube is just right but the stand over might be to high. Please help in you know. Thanks


----------



## lawrencemonsters

I think the bike looks great. I hope that it rides great


----------



## Rob81

it does


----------



## lawrencemonsters

what do you mean it does?
I just want to know what the stand over is on the fm 015 hongfu frame.


----------



## Rob81

lol dude, I said it rides great, Idk the standover value for the 49 if you need I've a Fm015 ISP 49 size cad image somewhere.


----------



## lawrencemonsters

Sorry, I miss understood. So you have a 49 cm in the fm015. If it is not a problem could you please send some pics so I can see what is looks like. How long have you had the frame and you said that it rides great, could you let me know how many miles you have put on the frame since you put it together. can't wait to see your pics.


----------



## vanterminator

so just wondering if anyone has tried these guys?
they have a few paints on offer for the bikes, dont have much knowledge about the prices though...probably should be competitive
anyone brave enough to pull the trigger? very interested in finding out more...

http://www.miracle-trade.net.cn/


----------



## jsedlak

Anyone a bigger rider riding these things? I have contemplated this direction in the past, but the flex issue is scary for me being a larger-than-average rider. My madone flexes a bit on the trainer, but not by pressing the tubes with my fingers and is definitely solid on the road.


----------



## Rob81

lawrencemonsters said:


> Sorry, I miss understood. So you have a 49 cm in the fm015. If it is not a problem could you please send some pics so I can see what is looks like. How long have you had the frame and you said that it rides great, could you let me know how many miles you have put on the frame since you put it together. can't wait to see your pics.


No I've a 51 because 49 was slightly too short for me.
I've it since early december, 1250 miles on it because from Monday to Friday I use another frame (the ebay one)
Rides nice too bad today in my 1st 2010 Granfondo I flexed my 50 ring and the falling chain flexed my reardop........
Anyway here's a CAD for 49 size
<a href="https://img406.imageshack.us/my.php?image=fm0154901.jpg" target="_blank"><img src="https://img406.imageshack.us/img406/5021/fm0154901.th.jpg" alt="Free Image Hosting at www.ImageShack.us" border="0"/></a>
And here my 51 when i was building it


----------



## [email protected]

*New frame recieved.*

I've wanted a new bike for some time and also had an idea that it would be fun to build my own bike. After a lot of research and, with the help of this forum and others I decided to take a chance on one of these generic Chinese frames. I finally ordered an FM 015 and it arrived yesterday. I plan to post pictures of my build (which may be a slow process due to cost) but I am wondering if there are any specific pictures that anyone out there wants.

I had Jenny put paint the frame like the "Sample" on their web site and plan to add more graphics locally. before building the rest of the bike up. I'll post pictures as soon as I figure out how to do that


----------



## lawrencemonsters

Thank you for the reply and the CAD for the 49cm the bike you built looks great. How tall are you and what is your inseam. my wife is 5'2" and I hope that the 49 will be a good size for her.


----------



## Rob81

Height 5' 9" (176 cm), inseam 31.9" (81 cm) I like long seatposts, compact frames and i've good back flexibility.


----------



## abstractform20

i was "researching" "generic" carbon frames, and here is something that is interesting (maybe).



according to http://allanti.com/articles/where-was-my-bike-made-pg328.htm

the taiwanese companies: ideal and topkey, manufacture carbon fujis. 

topkey is located at 

TOPKEY CORPORATION
18, 20th Road, Industrial Park, Taichung, Taiwan, R.O.C.

and vortext (rapid horizon owns them) is located at
(40750) No. 97, Yongchang 2nd Street, Situn District, Taichung City 407, Taiwan, (R.O.C.)

both are in Taichung, Taiwan...think its the same factory???


----------



## Dajianshan

I can go take a look. I can see the area right now, but I am at work and can't get out there at the moment.


----------



## abstractform20

that would be awesome!


----------



## bcmf

Anybody got Torque settings for this?





BlackDoggystyle said:


> Thx!
> 
> 
> I got a FM-01 and was happy I finally finished building the bike.
> 
> I had only one problem. I got my heels that go pretty much inwards and they pass the chainstays very close (left side even touches ones a while) ... and I didn't notice the flat tube section on the left side when I bought it.
> 
> I biulded the frame anyway in the hope it would not make too much of a problem but..nope....by every pedal stroke I touch the left side of the chainstay... So this frame is a NO GO! for me.
> 
> Otherwise the frame I pretty good. Good respons too.
> 
> So here it is...just to fill the forum with pictures


----------



## chocy

Rob81,

Nice bike, you are I are about similar size 5'9" (175cm) with 31.5" inseam.
I was wondering what stem length you are using. i ask this because I found 110cm is ideal for 51cm frame in terms of handling but 120cm feel better confort wise. but 120cm makes me feel less confident going downhill 40 MPH + 

BTW, I now have about 1500 miles on my bike and my opinion is still the same. I LOVE IT. I also Reynolds Assault on it too and it looks really sweet. I will post some pics when I get some free time...


----------



## HeluvaSkier

abstractform20 said:


> both are in Taichung, Taiwan...think its the same factory???


No. I don't think so - besides, those addresses look different to me. Knowing some folks from the area, I hear there are A LOT of bicycle manufacturers in Taichung. Topkey has it's own location (actually has a few factories I think...). I have a frame from Topkey. IMO the finishing quality on these eBay frames is not nearly as good as the one I have from Topkey in Taiwan.


----------



## Rob81

chocy said:


> Rob81,
> 
> Nice bike, you are I are about similar size 5'9" (175cm) with 31.5" inseam.
> I was wondering what stem length you are using. i ask this because I found 110cm is ideal for 51cm frame in terms of handling but 120cm feel better confort wise. but 120cm makes me feel less confident going downhill 40 MPH +
> 
> BTW, I now have about 1500 miles on my bike and my opinion is still the same. I LOVE IT. I also Reynolds Assault on it too and it looks really sweet. I will post some pics when I get some free time...


130 mm here and no problem so far going downhill, but size and stem lenght are related also to how good is your back flexibility.


----------



## rubbersoul

have any of these chinese gems blown up on ya'll?


----------



## vanterminator

So can people chime in on costs...
Lets say that I have a gruppo (shifters, gears, brakes, etc) and wheels, what kind of prices have you guys seen, for a roadbike (not TT) frame, fork, seat post, handle bars, stem, headset...
what did you guys pay for the extras (paint, shipping)?

i did some calculations and i got like a number around 650+shipping+other extras...
sounds about right?


----------



## HeluvaSkier

vanterminator said:


> So can people chime in on costs...
> Lets say that I have a gruppo (shifters, gears, brakes, etc) and wheels, what kind of prices have you guys seen, for a roadbike (not TT) frame, fork, seat post, handle bars, stem, headset...
> what did you guys pay for the extras (paint, shipping)?
> 
> i did some calculations and i got like a number around 650+shipping+other extras...
> sounds about right?


I paid a little less than $500 including shipping for my 015 frame, fork, headset, and extra derailleur hanger. I'd actually recommend to some building one of these to just buy the frame and source your own parts for the rest of the bike. I didn't particularly care for the stock seat post or drop bars, and I think you can find better forks out there for a reasonable price. If price is a significant object, I'd keep the stock fork - but still source your own bar/stem/seat post/saddle... etc. You might come in a little higher in price by doing that, but I think you will end up with a much better bike in the long run.


----------



## glovemtb

I have been getting these wonderful spyware site warnings when visiting alibaba. Warning about all the frauds on this site and to be very careful and ask for references etc before purchase.
http://www.siteadvisor.com/sites/al...aff_id=0&locale=en_us&os_ver=6.0.1.0&pip=true

Moving on,
Anyone have any experience with the chinese carbon frame w/fork and with the tapered headtube 1.25 to 1.5 with BB30 bottom bracket ?
Thanks


----------



## sebo2000

*my build*


----------



## willhs

Where did you get the back wheel?


----------



## vanterminator

sebo2000 said:


>


that.....is.....awesomeeeee!!!!!


----------



## T K

O.K boys, lets trim the fat and get to the meat. I'm looking at the 015 and I need some real questions answerd.
1) What is the actual price we are paying Jenny for frame and fork? (I would buy after market fork but I don't know of any taperd avail.)
2) Not to belittle anyone, but I need an evalution from somebody who has ridden or owned some nice bikes to compare these too, not somebody who this is their first or second bike. I thought my first Allez was all that, five bikes later, no big whoop.
Stiffness, handling, comfort, some analysis please. I hear how great they look, I've got two bikes that look great. One's a wet noodle and one's a jackhammer on wheels.
3) What do the three finishes look like they offer? I think 3k is the small weave, 12 is large weave, what does the UD look like. How do the paint jobs look?
4) Besides the FM015 what is the deal with the others? Anybody ridden more than one model. Wich one is the stiff one? Which is the plush one? Which is the allrounder. 
Thank you so much for some input, I think others would be intersted in any help too. 
When you look at any bike brand they tell you, "this one is our plush, this is our racer ect. I don't want to buy a Rubaix for a crit bike or a Tarmac for centuries, git my drift?
Thanks again.


----------



## popper252

Fm015 + matching fork
1) 410 plus 70 for shipping. Includes frame and fork. 15 extra for headset. 

Don't know about the rest as I should get my frame later this week. I opted for the 3k weave. I'll post pics once it arrives.


----------



## sebo2000

willhs said:


> Where did you get the back wheel?


Got it on ebay, those wheels are heavy but bomb proof, I'm on quite bumby roads and was looking for something that never needs to be true. This wheel is 450g heavier than mavic 22 with ultegra hub. I feel the difference when I start, but once going 35km/h is much easier to keep the speed. Overal very happy with it.


----------



## Grabeef

FM015 + fork usd415 + 15 headset + spare hanger + 70 shipping to UK.
3k finish. Looks nice but couple of minor blemishes in the layup. Nothing to cry about though. Didn't order a paint finish as I was quoted a 60 day wait.
Easton apparently do a tapered fork (The Cube Agree uses it) but I have not seen it for sale.
Cannot comment on the ride quality as I have only just got my wheels and anyway, the last roadbike I rode was one of those black / gold Raleigh Sprint jobbies from the 80's when I tried a triathlon. I only hope that this is better.
My reason for buying is based on looks. I was looking at the Cube Agree in my LBS. The FM015 is similar. Probably not the best reason for buying but I was curious.


----------



## fogliettaz

sebo2000 said:


> Got it on ebay, those wheels are heavy but bomb proof, I'm on quite bumby roads and was looking for something that never needs to be true. This wheel is 450g heavier than mavic 22 with ultegra hub. I feel the difference when I start, but once going 35km/h is much easier to keep the speed. Overal very happy with it.



Why on earth did you put Trek logos all over it. It is not a Trek! I have the same frame and have left it blank.


----------



## bcmf

Any body got the torque settings for these frames?




BlackDoggystyle said:


> Thx!
> 
> 
> I got a FM-01 and was happy I finally finished building the bike.
> 
> I had only one problem. I got my heels that go pretty much inwards and they pass the chainstays very close (left side even touches ones a while) ... and I didn't notice the flat tube section on the left side when I bought it.
> 
> I biulded the frame anyway in the hope it would not make too much of a problem but..nope....by every pedal stroke I touch the left side of the chainstay... So this frame is a NO GO! for me.
> 
> Otherwise the frame I pretty good. Good respons too.
> 
> So here it is...just to fill the forum with pictures


----------



## ms6073

bcmf said:


> Any body got the torque settings for these frames?


Specifically? The seat post clamp is ~4-5 nm, bottle cage bolts ~1-2 nm, saddle clamp, bottom bracket, and stem are specified by the manufacturer while headset preload is user dependent.


----------



## sebo2000

kdtx said:


> Here's mine. About 400 miles so far. About 16.75 with pedals. Painted and logo-ed it myself.
> 
> (sorry for the double post)


wow so cool, can you tell me how did you paint, do you have any video or walkthrough?
What paint did you use?
Where did you buiy it?
Did you use the gun, if yes waht gun?
Cn you say how exactly did you pain technique etc.
I just love this paint job and want to do it on my frame but I'm scared a bit as I have no clue about painting.


----------



## velomateo

T K said:


> O.K boys, lets trim the fat and get to the meat. I'm looking at the 015 and I need some real questions answerd.
> 1) What is the actual price we are paying Jenny for frame and fork? (I would buy after market fork but I don't know of any taperd avail.)
> 2) Not to belittle anyone, but I need an evalution from somebody who has ridden or owned some nice bikes to compare these too, not somebody who this is their first or second bike. I thought my first Allez was all that, five bikes later, no big whoop.
> Stiffness, handling, comfort, some analysis please. I hear how great they look, I've got two bikes that look great. One's a wet noodle and one's a jackhammer on wheels.
> 3) What do the three finishes look like they offer? I think 3k is the small weave, 12 is large weave, what does the UD look like. How do the paint jobs look?
> 4) Besides the FM015 what is the deal with the others? Anybody ridden more than one model. Wich one is the stiff one? Which is the plush one? Which is the allrounder.
> Thank you so much for some input, I think others would be intersted in any help too.
> When you look at any bike brand they tell you, "this one is our plush, this is our racer ect. I don't want to buy a Rubaix for a crit bike or a Tarmac for centuries, git my drift?
> Thanks again.


You already have answers regarding price, so I will skip to #2. Over my 20 years of saddle time I have owned a LOOK KG 461, a Mega tube Fondriest, a Colnago Oval Ti and numerous high-end steel frames and my fm-015 rides better than all of them. It does not have the lively feel of a good steel frame, but it doesn't wear you out like a stiff aluminum frame. I feel like the larger lower bearing gives the bike a very stable/planted feel while the massive bottom bracket and chain stays really stiffen things up when I'm sprinting or climbing out of the saddle.
I purchased mine in 3K weave with a matte finish. The 12K is the larger weave and I believe if you look back a few pages you will find another member who has pictures of the UD model with the ISP. I don't know if you could tell the difference between the different weaves if you were riding three identical bikes that were painted to cover up the weave. I think there may be a slight weight difference, although I am unsure of which would be the lightest. 
I have about 1500 miles on mine and it has been wonderful. I also bought the hongfu headset with the frame. It probably could be made lighter, but all in all, it's a very nice component and was easy to install. My bike is built up with 2010 SRAM Force group and rides on Easton SL90 wheels. It tips the scales at 16.2lb.s with pedals.
I had another ebay purchased frame and fork, from bicycle999. It rode very nice. It was built up with Campagnolo Chorus 10 with Mavic Ksirums and was slightly heavier at 16.8lb.s. It has since been passed on to my son who started riding and racing at the Naval Academy this spring. He has done very well and the bike is holding up fine. That is him in my avatar. Yes, I am very proud.
I am very pleased with this bike and have recommended it to several people who, like myself, enjoy building up bikes as much as riding them. You may read some comments about frame or fork failure in these pages, so you will have to consider that before you buy. But I don't think you could find a single carbon frame manufacturer that has not had a single failure at some time. Regards.


----------



## Grabeef

bcmf said:


> Any body got the torque settings for these frames?



From other carbon frame suppliers I am using:
seatpost 5.8 - 8 nm
front derailleur band-on 5 nm
brake calipers 8 nm
stem 5 - 8 nm (from the Planet X bikes website). My stem has 10 nm in big letters on it so I am not sure which to go for.

BBB do a nice click stop torque wrench for under £50.

The supplied $15 headset is this Neco H373

http://www.necoparts.com/Products.aspx?page=&cate=8&pid=6


----------



## stevesbike

use carbon assembly paste and the lowest recommended torque settings. You don't need more than 5Nm for a stem. 10 is definitely too much on a carbon steerer tube.


----------



## popper252

*Pics Galore*

Wow, 5 days from China to Orlando, Fl. That itself is a feat worth applauding. 

I got my frame earlier today and man is it a beauty. I am extremely impressed with the finish of this bike. Everything seems to be spot on. 
No wavy blemishes in the paint. No clear coat runoff. The frame itself is solid with out any squishy bits. 
But anyways I'll let my pictures do the talking. I'll apologize ahead of time for the quantity of pics. All I know is I wish I had this many pics to look at before purchasing the frame. :thumbsup:


----------



## popper252

A few more...


----------



## skyline377

Very nice looking frame!!!! How much is the grand total with shipping & Paypal fees?


----------



## popper252

Grand total was $655

That included: Frame, Fork, Headset, Bars, Seatpost, 2 bottle cages, extra der hanger, some spacers, shipping, and a 4% paypal fee. 

If anyone would like some pics of a few spots close up please let me know.


----------



## lawrencemonsters

I am going to buy this frame for my wife and am really excited. It is so beautiful. what size did you end up getting? and where did you get the seat clamp? I would love to get one like that but in green. Can't wait to see more pics when you get it more finished.


----------



## mikeschn

I decided to check out one of these carbon frames too. It just arrived today. 

My first reaction is, WOW, this thing is really really lightweight. 

I popped a couple of 700C wheel on it to see if it was my size, and I would have to say it is. But barely... 

Looks great in the sunshine! 



















Mikey


----------



## vanterminator

popper252 said:


> Grand total was $655
> 
> That included: Frame, Fork, Headset, Bars, Seatpost, 2 bottle cages, extra der hanger, some spacers, shipping, and a 4% paypal fee.
> 
> If anyone would like some pics of a few spots close up please let me know.


who did you buy the frame from?


----------



## vanterminator

mikeschn said:


> I decided to check out one of these carbon frames too. It just arrived today.
> 
> My first reaction is, WOW, this thing is really really lightweight.
> 
> I popped a couple of 700C wheel on it to see if it was my size, and I would have to say it is. But barely...
> 
> Looks great in the sunshine!
> 
> Mikey


Looks great, where did you get it from? 
what did you pay?
what parts in the package did you get?


----------



## mikeschn

I bought my stuff from bikebicycle99. 

I don't see my frame listed right now, but they have plenty of other stuff to choose from! I like the 3K weave! I paid $295 for the frame!










Mikey


----------



## sebo2000

popper252 said:


> Wow, 5 days from China to Orlando, Fl. That itself is a feat worth applauding.
> 
> I got my frame earlier today and man is it a beauty. I am extremely impressed with the finish of this bike. Everything seems to be spot on.
> No wavy blemishes in the paint. No clear coat runoff. The frame itself is solid with out any squishy bits.
> But anyways I'll let my pictures do the talking. I'll apologize ahead of time for the quantity of pics. All I know is I wish I had this many pics to look at before purchasing the frame. :thumbsup:


Sweet frame, I could not find this from bicycle99 can you sent me seller name?
I think I'm goingto built another one with SRAM RED


----------



## mikeschn

I just found the frame again, sorry it took so long... 

look here: 
http://cgi.ebay.com/Brand-New-Full-...dZViewItemQQptZRoad_Bikes?hash=item3cab59ad1b

Mikey

P.S. the seller name is bikebicycle99


----------



## sebo2000

mikeschn said:


> I just found the frame again, sorry it took so long...
> 
> look here:
> http://cgi.ebay.com/Brand-New-Full-...dZViewItemQQptZRoad_Bikes?hash=item3cab59ad1b
> 
> Mikey
> 
> P.S. the seller name is bikebicycle99


popper252 frame is a bit different that was the one i was asking for, I have very similar to your but with straight seat tube and a bit bigger seat stays.
I'm super interested in the one that popper252 has, it is very close to Madone 4.5


----------



## gandini

popper252: That's a really nice looking frame +. That will build up a beautiful bike. Do you have weights on the parts: frame, fork, post, bars, etc? It would be really helpful to know the sizes and the weights.

Thanks,


----------



## foofighter

gandini said:


> popper252: That's a really nice looking frame +. That will build up a beautiful bike. Do you have weights on the parts: frame, fork, post, bars, etc? It would be really helpful to know the sizes and the weights.
> 
> Thanks,


you got the frame that i was eyeballing w/ the 3k weave! that looks really really good :thumbsup:


----------



## popper252

Thanks for the compliments! 

It's great to see some more detailed pics thrown up on here too. 

I didn't get weights as the scale I have only goes up to 500 grams. The seatpost came out to around 198 grams and honestly I was so excited I forgot to weigh the rest of the stuff.

Before I build it up I'll be sure to weight everything. 

According to my excel spreadsheet this bike will weigh somewhere around 14lbs when it's all said and done. Of course those are all manufacturers claimed weights so I'll have to wait and see what the actual weight comes out to. 

This is a size 53 frame. The seatpost collar is a Woodman Deathgrip TI that I got off ebay. I actually salvaged it off one of my mountain bikes just to get the photos. I have another clamp on order for this bike. 
If you look hard enough you'll find any color under the rainbow  

Got the frame off of hong-fu bikes. After a few days worth of email exchanges with Jenny I finally pulled the trigger. Having never dealt directly with an exporter the experience was odd but she was very patient and answered questions to the best of her abilities. Only problem was the 12 hour time difference, sometimes it would take a day or so for her to respond.

I showed some friends the bike earlier today and one of them is actually placing an order for one in the next few days. It looks even better in person than it does in the pictures. 

Over all I'm extremely happy. I really can't wait to get this thing built and see how it rides


----------



## skyline377

mikeschn said:


> I decided to check out one of these carbon frames too. It just arrived today.
> 
> My first reaction is, WOW, this thing is really really lightweight.
> 
> I popped a couple of 700C wheel on it to see if it was my size, and I would have to say it is. But barely...
> 
> Looks great in the sunshine!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Mikey



This is a cool looking frame!!!! it looks like they only have a 52 I need a 54!!


----------



## T K

Super sweet Popper! Thanks for the great picks. 
I may Pm you for some specific info.
Thanks for everyone elses input too. Would love to hear more ride compare reports.


----------



## sebo2000

fogliettaz said:


> Why on earth did you put Trek logos all over it. It is not a Trek! I have the same frame and have left it blank.



As experiment, I like it shining  I want to get my own stickers now


----------



## MarvinK

I agree... its really lame to put the wrong brand stickers on a bike... unless I suppose you have Murray sponsoring you and they don't make any decent bikes... and Serotta is OK with it.


----------



## Dajianshan

I would agree with the caveat of successfully achieving a level of irony.


----------



## HeluvaSkier

sebo2000 said:


> As experiment, I like it shining  I want to get my own stickers now


Why not just go with the clear coated CF in whatever weave your frame is? I bought the 015 frame in UD weave because it didn't have any logos and was nondescript. If I wanted a [insert brand name] I would have bought whatever brand that was. As it stands now, I'll have a good carbon frame that I won't feel too bad about racing [potentially crashing] because I can replace it 6 times before I start to even approach the cost of a [insert brand name] frame.


----------



## freekthefunk

Yeah, what is up with the corporate branding of these frames? Either you are frugal or practical (or just a cheap skate like myself) or you buy into the image and message that the big named brands are marketing to you. But to show up to a group ride with name brand stickers on your knock off is like milli vanilli singing at the Grammy's. If the hype is that important to you then save your money and buy the real deal. I do have to say I really like some of the signature and custom looks people have been giving these builds. The photos have been great.


----------



## bcmf

Just thought I would post this as other posts help me make my decision
Late afternoon spin in the warmish Irish Sun. 60km in total
First things first I am coming from a Giant metal with compact geometry so although its a different beast from what I have now it is my only reference point!
Decided to head out the back roads.
The first section of the main road outside the village where I live is VERY ROUGH.Doesnt look bad but its all over the place.Am used to getting my remaining fillings rattled.Not this time. Although it is rough most the bumps seemed to be very well absorbed.The next few kms I noticed a huge difference.It just seemed to take every one of the million bumps with ease and felt like I was on different roads then I was used to.I noticed at the end of the spin my hands and arms were nowhere near as 'bashed' and sore as normal.Onda style forks??
Geometry
I immediatley noticed that I was more stretched out but comfy.I bought a 56cm frame and was a little worried that it was too big but seems like a really good fit.I felt that I was in an aggressive style.My feet seemed a bit far forward but when I stood and gave it a bit of welly it wasn't an issue and when just cruising in the saddle it just felt right. I had made adjustments on the rollers.My legs seemed free'r. Long bends were just eaten up without any fuss and when the road did eventually become smoother I found that I was spinning out on the 39 ring and when I popped it onto the 53/16 or 15 it just loved it. Despite a horrible little headwind with a bit of effort I managed to keep the speed in the mid 30's without too much effort.
General
The frame felt very sure on the road and easily dealt with the bad roads we have.Comfy and (to me anyway) took a little bit to get it up to speed but once there it was happy and just seemed to love the big ring if you know what I mean
Only one very minor rise in the road and certainly the bike wanted to go up the rise with me as opposed to what I was used to ie dragging the bike up.But as I said it was only a bump rather then a climb.On the journey home its a long draggy journey but was spent happily tapping it out in the 53.
Just once did I 'sprint' for a sign. From an almost standing (tackling traffic at a roundabout) and in the few metres I got it up to 52.1km but since I am not really fit and simply dont have the miles in my legs it will get better.
Once home I didn't feel the usual creaks and niggles I usually do.
All in all very happy.
only bad point; It is now dirty

sorry about the pixilatted photo's but its the best my camera fone can do


----------



## BlackDoggystyle

He can put any stickers on he wants. A Ferrari sticker on red Fiat doesn't make it a Ferrari. 

As long hes not going to try to sell it as a Trek bike to someone who's not very "cycling smart" no problems here.


----------



## popper252

BlackDoggystyle said:


> He can put any stickers on he wants. A Ferrari sticker on red Fiat doesn't make it a Ferrari.
> 
> As long hes not going to try to sell it as a Trek bike to someone who's not very "cycling smart" no problems here.


Yeah I agree, it's his bike he can do whatever he wants with it. If he decides to sell it as a Trek though, that's another story.
Really who cares as long as he's getting out there and riding the heck out of it. 

Personally, I was thinking about putting 'Roadies Suck' on the side of mine :aureola:


----------



## basman1

Popper252, the downtube on that frame looks massive. Very nice indeed! It looks squarish as it approaches the bottom bracket. I am deciding between your frame style hf fm015 and hf fm001. At first I was a little skeptical about the size of the seatstays on your frame. The view from behind shows that they are not too skimpy. 

Dave


----------



## karlo

Ok, i'm new to this site and want to change to a carbon frame and I have been looking at the ebay frames but after going through the thread I like a couple of the ones shown, my question is where can I order them from or who do I contact.

I like these:
Fm028
Fm015


----------



## bcmf

most of them come from ebay but jenny or bicycle-888 or whoever get them from here http://www.hongfu-bikes.com/Prclass.asp?Id=1&page=2


----------



## HeluvaSkier

basman1 said:


> I am deciding between your frame style hf fm015 and hf fm001.


I own both an 001 (Kredo-like frame) and an 015. The 001 is my gf's bike and I have ridden it quite a lot. It is a great frame... I also am building an 015-SPL. IMO that frame simply looks to be the better frame from a construction standpoint. The fork on the 015 is also a MUCH better fork from what I can tell so far. I'd go with the 015 or SPL version. JMO.


----------



## MarvinK

popper: Is that a Cervelo R3 knock-off? (squarish downtube & skinny seatstays)


----------



## PLAYONIT

MarvinK said:


> popper: Is that a Cervelo R3 knock-off? (squarish downtube & skinny seatstays)



Why yes Marvin... I do believe she is....Here's mine..ain't she grand....


----------



## T K

Man, that thing must ride rough with those low profile tires.


----------



## PLAYONIT

T K said:


> Man, that thing must ride rough with those low profile tires.



Yeah..... definitely put some hurt on the Kidneys ;^) Makes a hell of a sound also... Can't wait to get the skins on this thing and finish it up so I can ride.. but as I look out the window it has decided to snow again after 2 weeks of not having any....


----------



## T K

What's snow?


----------



## popper252

I think it's that stuff people put on cones and stuff. 

I dunno...


----------



## schoey

Hi guys, stumbled across this forum while trying to get more info on the fm015, now the fm028 has caught my attention, I emailed greatkeen today and got this reply:

_390usd for new road frameset with clear coating include frame and fork and seat post;

At present we have 54cm and 56cm.

I can shipping about on end of april._

Now waiting to hear whether they'll do it in BB30 and UD finish, if not it's an fm015 for me. Fingers crossed though because I do like that fm028...


----------



## ansetou

raymonda said:


> Just a quick update. I have ridden this bike for 1 year or around 3,000 miles. Everything I stated in the past is true today. The fit and finish may not be on par with mega buck carbon, albeit acceptable, but the ride is. It is comfortable, stiff and a great handling bike. There is barely any flex in the BB and it transmits power accordingly. There are a few of these older models on ebay for about $200.00 less than what I paid and they come with a fork. If it is your size you can't go wrong. But please read my prior postings for prep concerns.
> 
> BTW, weight is 14.30 lbs, fully dressed as you see it.


raymonda, which frame is this and who did you get it from?


----------



## basman1

heluvaskier, how does the ride quality compare between the fm001 and fm015? Do you find one more stiff or plush?


----------



## basman1

gandini, quick question, where did you get your Neo Ultimate from? Sweet looking frame! Very Stealthy


----------



## HeluvaSkier

basman1 said:


> heluvaskier, how does the ride quality compare between the fm001 and fm015? Do you find one more stiff or plush?


I haven't been on the 015 riding it yet (no saddle yet because I'm waiting for a mast head). Standing on the frame and testing out the stiffness of the fork, the 015 is MUCH stiffer. I'll give a full ride report in a few weeks once I have the bike fully assembled and have a chance to test it out on a few different rides. I've built two 001's and now one 015 and the 015 just feels like the better frame - sort-of like if you were to compare an older Fuji Team or Scott CR-1 frame to a new Dogma or Prince just by handling the frames and noting the differences...


----------



## ansetou

is it true that none of these chinese/hk sellers are willing to paint if it's only one frame? i've been talking about it w/ jenny for a few days by now and she suddenly came back and said if it's only one frame she' won't paint. 

did anyone get the bike painted before it's shipped to you? how long was the process? how much? thx.


----------



## ms6073

ansetou said:


> ansetou said:
> 
> 
> 
> did anyone get the bike painted before it's shipped to you? how long was the process? how much? thx.
Click to expand...

No, that is not true. Keep in mind that GreatKeen is not a manufacturer, simply a clearing house for many Eastern manufacturing companies many of which do a lot of other things besides bike parts. Search Alibaba for manufacturers offering 1-2 paint frames and request a quote for those products.

Here are some examples: 
Miracle Trade
Zhejiang Pujiang Libahuang Bicycle Co., Ltd 
NINGBO MAOYING INTERNATIONAL TRADE CO.,LTD.


----------



## chocy

Heluvaskier,

I second your opinion about the quality difference between 001 and 015. I had 011 initially before I crashed it (my fault). Now I have 015 and there is a noticable difference to the way these bikes ride. and 015 feels much much more solid, stable while the steering being much more precise (I think because the quality difference in fork is much more than the difference in frames) 

Anyway I love my 015 for its subtle lines and the solid ride it provides.


----------



## karlo

Ok, i got another question about the 015 which is the one i'm shooting to get but how strong are they because i'm 230lb.


----------



## Rob81

028 is very cool and with a nice improved (atleast aestetically) ISP seatpost


----------



## bizzybone485

Thanks all for the reviews and comments! Ive been reading these reviews since they started and im finally getting to that point to purchase the frame. Got most of the rest and just need some bar tape and the carbon package. Im gonna go with the 015. Ill do a little review and post pics when the time comes. Thanks again!


----------



## gandini

basman1 said:


> gandini, quick question, where did you get your Neo Ultimate from? Sweet looking frame! Very Stealthy


 I got it from Neo Cycles (the website is neo-cycles.com, but it doesn't come up at the moment.) The owner posts on weightweenies.com as *phallenthoul, *so you could go over there and send him a PM.
There's a group buy on another forum, but I don't have it, sorry.

I am really enjoying my bike as the weather picks up and lures me out.


----------



## abstractform20

does anyone have 1000 miles or more on their hong fu frame&fork?

if so, are there any signs of stress or damage? is the ride quality still the same?


----------



## chocy

I had about 3500 miles on 001 model until I crashed it and now I have about 1500+ on 015 SPL.

All I have to say is neither frame showed any sign of weakness through countless potholes going 20+ MPH and they are solid. Really you have nothing to worry about if you are concerned about their durability. They are as durable as carbon gets 

As for 001 frame. I crashed my bike going about 18MPH straight into a temporary metal railing. (It was after work and very dark at central park) I didn't fall, Bike came to a complete stop as the metal railing flung open. I thought I got lucky and road my bike for another lap and a half (6 miles loop at 20MPH ave. speed) and then rode it home (another 5 miles) Once I got home I realized that there was a huge crack on my downtube right behind my head tube. It absorbed all the impact and kept me from going over. Anyway 001 frame was durable enough for me to ride a cracked bike (which no one should do on a carbon bike) home. I have no concern for durability of any of these frames when treated reasonablly (of course any product has some exceptions)


----------



## bizzybone485

This is good to hear! Thanks!


----------



## chrcoe

*my carbon frame*

I bought mine from bicycle_999 when they were selling them (before I knew about hong-fu)

I didn't like the straight carbon look, so I decided to paint it up. I am using the seat post that came with it just for clamping into my work stand (don't want to risk messing up my nice one )

Here's a before and after, I can't finish the build yet because I am waiting on my stem from Germany, it's been on back order for awhile now 

View attachment 195415

View attachment 195416

View attachment 195417

View attachment 195414


And before you ask how much the paint job cost, I did the paint myself, had a few small blemishes, but I don't care, gives it character :thumbsup: I think with materials it was <$60 and two weekends of sand/prime/paint/clearcoat

I don't have the fork installed obviously so you can't see it, but the idea is to have the line from the fork match up with the down tube.

View attachment 195418


I am building it up with full SRAM Red, and my next project after I ride this for awhile and pay off some debt (we are in the middle of buying a new house) will be to buy one of the TT frames and build it up for TTs.

On my excel calc. it should weigh in around 15.3 lbs, but as someone else stated .. manufacturer weights are usually off, so we'll see what it comes to when I finish building, I'm going to take to the LBS to get it weighed.

I think with shipping, the frame, fork, seatpost were $340 + $60 shipping? I bought the OEM Headset just to ensure compatibility because I did not want to wait for the frame to get there to order the rest of the parts. Bicycle_999 sent me the headset for $15, free shipping because i bought 2 bottle cages, and 5 derailleur hangers (if one strips out or breaks, I don't want to have to wait, or find locally the right hanger to fit the frame) at the same time, and that order was maybe $6 shipping.


----------



## raymonda

Nice paint. I might steal your idea!


----------



## j-man

*Flyxi Bikes*

hey i ordered a jersey from here and just got it in today, its a cervelo team jersey for just $20 total. took a couple weeks to get here but for the price i think i found my new clothing source!! http://www.flyxii.com/products_1.asp?menuid=309&id=449:thumbsup: :thumbsup:


----------



## Sidmyre

j-man said:


> hey i ordered a jersey from here and just got it in today, its a cervelo team jersey for just $20 total. took a couple weeks to get here but for the price i think i found my new clothing source!! http://www.flyxii.com/products_1.asp?menuid=309&id=449:thumbsup: :thumbsup:



let us know how the quality is and what your height/weight is


----------



## j-man

quality seems pretty on par with $80+ jerseys but i havn't ridden with it on yet. im 5,10ft tall and about 138lbs. i ordered a medium,and it was a little big on me. so i thing next time i will order a small


----------



## Sidmyre

j-man said:


> quality seems pretty on par with $80+ jerseys but i havn't ridden with it on yet. im 5,10ft tall and about 138lbs. i ordered a medium,and it was a little big on me. so i thing next time i will order a small



I dont see a place to choose the size of jersey/shorts, and the jersey looks a little cheap or maybe its the models they put the clothes on...just saying..... Seems kinda fishy to me.......


----------



## Rocket Pop

anyone order the spoo3 seatpost from hong fu?
It doesn't seem to be able to adjust. So the seat is tilting slightly upward. Not very comfortable at all. Am I doing something wrong?


----------



## sebo2000

abstractform20 said:


> does anyone have 1000 miles or more on their hong fu frame&fork?
> 
> if so, are there any signs of stress or damage? is the ride quality still the same?


I got my frame/fork from bicycle99 and have about 2000km on it, no sign of any stress. Because I got is so cheap I’m going all the way on even big bumps and potholes. I was going over the same route with my aluminum, boy that was a human vibrator…. This carbon frame absorbs all the vibrations but is stiff like hell when going off the saddle. Rock solid, it was really great buy. My next project is TT frame with full SRAM RED.
btw I'm now 190lb this frame with aerospoke back wheel is really bomb proof combo that can take any abuse.


----------



## mtbmac

I tried to view some of the frames people say they get from Greatkeen at greatkeens website. But I do not see the FM028 or MS6073's TT frameset there. The site I went to is www.greatkeenbike.com Is this the correct site?


----------



## popper252

Rocket Pop said:


> anyone order the spoo3 seatpost from hong fu?
> It doesn't seem to be able to adjust. So the seat is tilting slightly upward. Not very comfortable at all. Am I doing something wrong?


Yup I got it and have to admit it's not the best design in the world. 

Those two aluminum caps on either side where the rails sit are supposed to rotate inside the round head. Just go ahead and remove the outside clamps and then use the bolt from the inside to push the end caps off. That's how I got mine loose. 

I popped the aluminum caps off and tried greasing the area they fit into to help with adjustments. It didn't do much unfortunately but at least now I can get it to rotate a little bit when I loosen the bolt all the way and really push hard.


----------



## chrcoe

i don't know much about greatkeen, so i probably can't help, but ... this is a link to FM028 as far as I can tell.

http://www.hongfu-bikes.com/Products.asp?Id=432

could be totally wrong though


----------



## Rocket Pop

I ended up popping them out and putting them back in the position I wanted. Definitely not the best design.


----------



## chocy

hmm, I have the ISP mast which is the same design. If you loosen the bolt enough it rotates quite freely. I personally don't have any issue with the design. may be it is the QC problem?


----------



## ms6073

Rocket Pop said:


> I ended up popping them out and putting them back in the position I wanted. Definitely not the best design.


My TT frameset uses the same design and I spent about 45-minutes with the digital level getting the seat angle to tehe desired angle. What I noticed is that as you tighten the the clamp bolts, the circular 'wedges' get pressed into the alloy face of the seatpost and despite applying grease, the wedges make it difficult to adjust the saddle angle. Seems to me there needs to be something like a speing between the two wedges that applies pressure to spread the wedges from the inside so that proper saddle angle can easily be achieved. 

A bit of web searching lead me to find that the design of the seatpost clamp is very similar to the Crank Brothers Joplin seatpost for mountain bikes and my search turned up a site with a replacement clamp assembly where if you take a look at the image of the part, you will see there is a spring on that clamp. I think I am going to add a spring on the inside between the two wedges with hopes that it provides some opposing force to the clamping tension and make it easier to adjust the saddle angle. Other nitpicky things I have noted while assembling my time trial bike:
Pros:

 Nice internal cable runs with fixed internal cable liners which helps to eliminate wasted time fishing for cables should non fixed liners come out (ala Giant Trinity/Trinity Alliance)
Fork is all carbon including very thick carbon dropouts
Horizontal, all carbon rear dropouts (also very thick) with replaceable alloy deraileur hanger
Hidden rear brake which mounts behind bottom bracket
Two position, infinitely adjustable seatpost/clamp design
Cons:
Fork is 1 1/8 but the manufacturer sent the lower headset bearing and crown race for a tapered road fork
Fork steerers inner diameter a 1mm smaller than standard thus standard top cap assemblies (like FSA or ExtraLight) will not work
Front and rear dropouts required some 'cleaning' up in order for wheel axle to cleanly clear dropouts
The heads of the allen bolts for the front deraileur mount are too large and interfere with front deraileur adjustment and had to be replaced with low profile bolts
The angle of the braze on mount for the front deraileur appears optimized for compact cranks (110 BCD) and not standard (130 BCD) cranksets making optimum adjusting of the front deraileur a bit tricky
Internal cable runs enter frame via holes in top tube 1.5cm-2cm aft of the steerer tube and while the manufactuer ran internal housing, the hole for the rear brake is on the right side of the (looking down from saddle) which with 3T Ventus integrated aerobars, makes for an interesting cable run. Ideally the rear brake hole/liner would have been routed from the front hole instead of the right cable hole
Frame is designed for a center pull rear brake and the brake cable exits the down tube just ahead of the bottom bracket similar to Specialized Transition but unlike with the Specialized frame, there is no cable hanger to hold the end of cable housing in place which results in a bit of slope when applying rear brake (Simkins Design Egg Brake will probably end up on the bike as it features a narrow side pull design)
[*]Inside of the bottom bracket shell has a somewhat polished center section that is raised and prevents insertion of alloy center sleeve for FSA MegaExo bottom bracket but this is probably not a problem for Shimano/SRAM as I swapped the alloy sleeve for a plastic one
[*]The infinitely adjustable seatpost/clamp is rather finicky in order to achieve the desited saddle angle
[*]Nature of seatpost clamp prevents use of carbon railed saddles with non-stanard rail diameters such as Fizik Arione/Arione Tri 2 w/braided carbon rails)
http://www.simkinsdesigns.com/


----------



## Lithopedian

I'm about to pull the trigger on one of these frames when a 2003 Trek CF 5000 frame/fork/seatpost came up for sale locally on craigslist. She wants $500 for it. Does anybody have any experience with both the trek and the ebay frames? Which one would you folks get?


----------



## j-man

but the question remains...............are treks good bikes?


----------



## amd

ms6073 said:


> Other nitpicky things I have noted while assembling my time trial bike:
> [/LIST]



Got any pictures of your bike?


----------



## amd

Lithopedian said:


> I'm about to pull the trigger on one of these frames when a 2003 Trek CF 5000 frame/fork/seatpost came up for sale locally on craigslist. She wants $500 for it. Does anybody have any experience with both the trek and the ebay frames? Which one would you folks get?



I'm pretty sure the 5000's were made in Taiwan so its possible the frames are pretty similar in where they come from. However, CF technology changes a lot every year, getting better and better. Here we are seven years down the road... I'd go with the newer frame


----------



## Rocket Pop

Just about done. Went with a flat black finish.


----------



## dougiann

Originally Posted by ms6073
Other nitpicky things I have noted while assembling my time trial bike:[/list]


I'm thinking of pulling the trigger on a couple bikes - a TT frame and the "FM028" Cervelo looking frame...seems to me that everyone who has one is pleased with them and those who bash realize they spent 3 - 4x as much for a very similar product and a lot of marketing...

Regarding the TT frame (again, cervelo looking rear traingle version):

Who did you buy your frame from? What's your overall impression of the frame? Did you get any CAAD drawings prior to purchase and could you post 'em if you have 'em - that way I can figure out Stack / Reach..


----------



## dougiann

sorry for the multiple posts - itchy trigger finger


----------



## dougiann

sorry


----------



## asad137

Rocket Pop said:


> Went with a flat black finish.


Flat black = so sexy. Love it. 

Asad


----------



## karlo

Thanks for posting that picture, those are almost exactly the same components that I have so it makes it easier to pick a frame, same wheels and handlebar so with this I know how mine will look.


----------



## ms6073

dougiann said:


> Who did you buy your frame from?


I ordered from Adam Zhong, who works for Great Keen and represents Degnfu Sports Equipment who I beleive is the actual manufacturer of the TT frameset. Turn around time from sending payment via PayPal to receiving the frameset was 22-days but as I mentioned, they sent the wrong headset. Note that Adam is either physically located in Taiwan or mainland China and if you want to trade e-mails/IM him in real time, it is best to do so after 20:00 (CST) in the evening.



dougiann said:


> Did you get any CAAD drawings prior to purchase and could you post 'em if you have 'em - that way I can figure out Stack / Reach..


Yes, but the same data is available online at Dengfu's website - click here size 54cm carbon time trial/tri frameset for the geometry drawing (note clicking on the actual drawing will open a larger view of the drawing.



dougiann said:


> What's your overall impression of the frame?


You did read my list of pros/cons right? While the nitpicky issues are numerous, I am thus far happy with the results. In terms of quality control, frame construction and finish are certainly not on a par with big name manufacturers I am used. The paint job and clear coat is adequate but if I order another frame for the wife, it will be single color (black). Since the manufacturer supplied an incorrect lower headset bearing and crown race, I have not been able to complete assembly but thus far, overall I am pleased with the outcome. Finally, if you are not a somewhat well versed/equipped home/pro mechanic and will be sending the frame to the local bike shop for assembly, then that added expense may end up puting the cost of this project on par with the name brand manufacturers frames/bikes.


----------



## karlo

Rocket Pop said:


> Just about done. Went with a flat black finish.


Is the fork you have the HF-FK006?


----------



## amd

Rocket Pop said:


> Just about done. Went with a flat black finish.




did you paint it yourself?


----------



## ajun8088

Any people have buy carbon from this website:"www.e-hongfu-bikes.com". there have very many carbon bicycle parts and have good price.


----------



## Rocket Pop

Yes that is the FK006 fork. 
I had them paint it. Only charged me $40


----------



## mrob239

I've looked through a majority of the thread, but couldn't quite find the answer I was looking for about my question. These frames do look very tempting, but I can't help but be skeptical about the durability/reliability of them. People have said that they are plenty light and stiff, but has anyone had any frame failures with them not associated with crashing? I realize that all carbon frames are subject to failure at some point, but I'm just curious about these frames in particular.

Should I feel perfectly safe descending a mountain at 50+ on these frames as opposed to X big brand bike?

Sorry if this has already been asked/answered!


----------



## Lithopedian

Well, I ended up buying a complete bike locally off of craigslist. It might look familiar to you folks here.

Specs:
54cm frame (I think its the Kredo Clone, or the 001 model)
Velocity Deep V rims with White Industries ENO Hub
SRAM S300 1.1 GXP Track Crankset
Crankbrothers Eggbeaters
Selle SLR Saddle (It came with a X lite saddle!)

Eventually, I'll have my full dura ace set installed. For now I'm going to add a sprocket on the freewheel side and my dura brakes with some tt levers.


----------



## popper252

Hey guys, what are you using for your cable stops on the downtube? 

Can I order these from some site or will I have to go to the Bikeshop for them?

I've had a hard time locating them online as I'm not exactly sure what they're called. 

Any pictures of your setup or tips would be appreciated. 

Thanks!


----------



## Rob81

mrob239 said:


> Should I feel perfectly safe descending a mountain at 50+ on these frames as opposed to X big brand bike?


It's not a name on a tube that make the frame costs 5x times more of it real cost that can save your ass. IMHO.

About cable stops, the best way is to buy from LBS, they are not easy/cheap to find online.


----------



## ntb1001

popper252 said:


> Hey guys, what are you using for your cable stops on the downtube?
> 
> Can I order these from some site or will I have to go to the Bikeshop for them?
> 
> I've had a hard time locating them online as I'm not exactly sure what they're called.
> 
> Any pictures of your setup or tips would be appreciated.
> 
> Thanks!



down tube barrel adjusters


----------



## chrcoe

I had the same issue, I went to the LBS last week asking for some barrel adjusters, he took about 5 minutes looking through his pile of leftovers and found two that matched the barrel adjusters on my Red group's brakeset and he charged me $1.50 total and even put them on for me. So your best bet is definitely the LBS.


----------



## mrob239

Rob81 said:


> It's not a name on a tube that make the frame costs 5x times more of it real cost that can save your ass. IMHO.


Maybe I'm just not reading it correctly but I don't understand what your trying to say, can you rephrase? 

Otherwise though, I'm not saying that just because a frame has "Specialized" on the top tube (and 99,999 other places on the frame) that it necessarily means that it is better or that it should cost more, I just don't actually know if this is true. I just wanted to see what people had to say about the quality in their opinion.


----------



## raymonda

So, far it appears that these frames have been as durable as any other carbon frame regardless of the name. In some cases the fit and finish is not as good, but that too seems to be getting better.

For those that say that because it has a name brand on it, it will save your ass, well, just look through posts here and you'll see that they have failed, too. And, that is regardless of whether it was made of steel, titanium, aluminum or carbon.


----------



## popper252

While researching these frames I certainly had durability in mind.

One thing I noticed was that there weren't any really negative reviews. (That I could find anyways) Sure there were a few concerns and grievances but overall nothing catastrophic. 

One thing also to keep in mind is that generally, when something goes wrong that's the first thing someone is going to mention. You could have a million satisfied customers and none of them will speak up because they're happy and they have no reason to. But if you mess up just once, you bet your ass that one guy is going to raise the biggest stink. 

So anyways, you can take that however you'd like. Me personally I just ordered a Force grouppo and I'm still waiting for a few more parts to arrive so I can finally get my FM015 rolling. I'll throw some more pics up as the build progresses. 

Also thanks for the advice on the barrel adjusters. Once I'm ready to wrap my bars I'll take everything in and have them do that stuff.


----------



## HeluvaSkier

Jenson USA has a bunch of different downtube barrel adjusters and in-line barrel adjusters for those looking. I think they are mostly Jagwire, but I bought a ten-pack of them to just have around. They work well.


----------



## mrob239

popper252 said:


> So anyways, you can take that however you'd like. Me personally I just ordered a Force grouppo and I'm still waiting for a few more parts to arrive so I can finally get my FM015 rolling. I'll throw some more pics up as the build progresses.


That's actually the exact setup that I was considering, I'll be looking forward to seeing how it looks once its built up!  Are you planning on having them paint it or are you going with the carbon look?


----------



## ms6073

mrob239 said:


> Should I feel perfectly safe descending a mountain at 50+ on these frames as opposed to X big brand bike?


I see no reason not to feel safe especially when you consider that some of the no-name frames that look identical to the big name companies bikes are because in many case, in order to meet production numbers, some of the work is sub-contracted out so the imports being discussed are often times manufactured by the exact same people using much of the same base materials as the more expensive brand name products.

I seem to recall a few years back before outsourcing and Asian made frames became the main topics of disccusion, Light Speed made its first foray into all carbon frames. Apparently once the production numbers for Light Speed were met, the the manufacturer that had been contracted continued to make frames that were in turn marketed under various generic house brand names for much, much less than Light Speed. While the project did not fair well and the carbon frame was dropped pretty quickly, I think pimarily because everyone associated Light Speed with Ti, but it certainly could not have helped to have the house brand version undercut Light Speed sales.


----------



## popper252

mrob239 said:


> That's actually the exact setup that I was considering, I'll be looking forward to seeing how it looks once its built up!  Are you planning on having them paint it or are you going with the carbon look?


Awesome! Yeah I looked through all my options and I think the Force group is what will work best for me. 
As for paint, I'm not so sure. I really love the bare carbon look. The 3k weave looks amazing. I might be interested in adding some pin striping a little later once I can decide on a design. Just some small stripes to accentuate the lines of the frame. 

As you can see I'm still waiting on a crap ton of parts


----------



## basman1

Regarding the Hongfu frame fm015 does anyone know the front derailleur clamp size? 
Also is this frame compact , standard or semi compact? 
I have not seen the engineering diagram of it.


----------



## foofighter

basman1 said:


> Regarding the Hongfu frame fm015 does anyone know the front derailleur clamp size?
> Also is this frame compact , standard or semi compact?
> I have not seen the engineering diagram of it.


http://forums.roadbikereview.com/showpost.php?p=2682946&postcount=229


----------



## amtnbikinguy

*ebay seller cargogoods99 aka bicycle 999*

so would you guys recomend these ebay frames?
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=320509998283&ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=220581381037&ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=220581118942&ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT

I also found this link from the forum http://www.flyxii.com/products_1.asp?menuid=308&id=366 is this the same seller? It sure looks like it.

I had a new 2009 Madone 6.9 RED got taken out by a old lady at a 4 way stop!! She didn't see me she told the cops all the other drivers waited lolol I heard her tires squel I don't think she came to a full stop!

Anyways got a metal rod in left leg and lag bolt in hip now!! So I don't ride as much and just want a decent priced frame to build.


----------



## amtnbikinguy

ok check this link and give me some feed back if this looks like the same seller thats on ebay as cargogoods aka bicycle 999

http://www.flyxii.com/products_1.asp?menuid=308&id=334

ITEM:FLY-FR-008

TYPE:Full carbon road Frame

SIZE:52cm

WEAVE:3K
FOR ONLY $ 325!!!! WoW


----------



## chrcoe

amtnbikinguy said:


> so would you guys recomend these ebay frames?
> http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=320509998283&ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT
> 
> http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=220581381037&ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT
> 
> http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=220581118942&ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT
> 
> I also found this link from the forum http://www.flyxii.com/products_1.asp?menuid=308&id=366 is this the same seller? It sure looks like it.
> 
> I had a new 2009 Madone 6.9 RED got taken out by a old lady at a 4 way stop!! She didn't see me she told the cops all the other drivers waited lolol I heard her tires squel I don't think she came to a full stop!
> 
> Anyways got a metal rod in left leg and lag bolt in hip now!! So I don't ride as much and just want a decent priced frame to build.



If you look back a couple pages, you will see that I have the frame you linked (the first two), the TT frame is pretty awesome looking, but I have not owned it so I can not say.

In the future (>a year or so) I will most likely be building up a TT bike and will most likely either use that TT frame or the new 2010 FM028 they just added not to long ago, I was going to give a link, but the site is currently not up.


----------



## PLAYONIT

basman1 said:


> Regarding the Hongfu frame fm015 does anyone know the front derailleur clamp size?
> Also is this frame compact , standard or semi compact?
> I have not seen the engineering diagram of it.



it's 34.9mm


----------



## MB-BMC

Great thread :thumbsup: 

After reading this thread and checking out all the frames I'm getting ready to pull the trigger on the FM015 frame from HongFu sports. 

My only concern is the the big step from the 55 cm frame to the 58, and when I check the measures I feel kind of in between the two (I'm 186cm, inseam 88 cm = 6.1 foot, inseam 34,7"). Maybe some of you also felt you were somewhere between the two frames: What did you choose, and how is your fit on the bike?

Actually the FM028 seems to be a bit better fit for me, since it's almost spot on the same geometry as my BMC promachine, but I must admit that I don't care for the 12K carbon finish, and also there are limited feedback on this frameset.

Thanks,
Morten


----------



## chocy

I had that problem. I am 5'9 and I flet that I could use a 540 frame. (right between 530 and 550) I went conservative and got 530. now I am riding with 120mm stem so that means I could have been OK with 550 with 100mm stem. 
my mind is still split since I have not tried 550. I do not really know if I made the right decision. Going between 110mm and 120mm stem, I feel like bike could benefit from slightly shorter stem lengh. (more stable feeling ride at 40+ speed) but 120mm feels more lively. So unless you can try both, just go with your gut feeling.


----------



## MB-BMC

@chocy: Thanks for the adivse. I can't try any of the frames, so I have to rely on the geometry specs compared to my BMC that fit's me perfect... My gut feeling tells me, that I need the ''missing size'' between the 55 and 58.

The 56cm FM028 has specs almost identical to my BMC, so following my gut feeling this is the frameset I need. Maybe I should rephrase my original question and ask:

Did anyone buy the FM028 frameset? (see picture) What's your pro/con verdict?

Thanks,
Morten


----------



## amtnbikinguy

*link to HongFu sports?*

I can't get this site to open is it down whats the exact link?

OK I found this link is this the correct site for HongFu?
http://hongfu8088.en.made-in-china.com/

I just found this link http://www.hongfu-bikes.com/
is this the same supplier as http://www.flyxii.com/products.asp?menuid=308


----------



## gandini

Lithopedian said:


> Well, I ended up buying a complete bike locally off of craigslist. It might look familiar to you folks here....


How did you figure the sprockets/chain to get the right chain play for a fixie? There must be no adjustment from the vertical dropouts...


----------



## mrob239

I'm also trying to figure out which frame size and geometry would be best. I'm looking at the FM015 but I can't figure out if I would be best on a 56 or a 58. My normal bike is a 56 specialized sl2 with the team geometry:

Size: 56
Seat-Tube Length, B-B Center to Top: 530mm
Top-Tube Length, Horizontal: 565mm
B-B Drop: 69mm
Chain-Stay Length: 405mm
Seat-Tube Angle: 73.25°
Head-Tube Angle: 73.5°
Fork Rake: 43mm
Trail: 56mm
Front-Center: 591mm
Wheelbase: 986mm
Stand-Over Height: 800mm
Head-Tube Length: 150mm

Here's the FM015 geometry, or at least all that I could find:

Size: 55
Seat Tube: 550
Top Tube: 547.8
Seat Angle: 73.5
Head Angle: 72.5
Head Tube: 150
Chain Stay: 406
Wheelbase: 981.3

Size: 58
Seat Tube: 580
Top Tube: 567.8
Seat Angle: 73.5
Head Angle: 73
Head Tube: 170
Chain Stay: 406
Wheelbase: 996.6

Any suggestions?


----------



## amtnbikinguy

*bikebicycle99 or bicycle999 on eBay*

what seller is the one you guys used?
http://shop.ebay.com/bikebicycle99/m.html?_npmv=3
or
http://shop.ebay.com/cargogoods99/m.html?_npmv=3
this guys photos say "bicycle999"
I am confused I think they are all the same including that
http://www.flyxii.com/products.asp?menuid=308
web site because they have the same bikes listed right down to the full suspension mountain bikes.

If anyone can post a link to the correct guy on eBay it would be great.
Thanks


----------



## DaveT

popper252 said:


> Hey guys, what are you using for your cable stops on the downtube?
> 
> Can I order these from some site or will I have to go to the Bikeshop for them?
> 
> I've had a hard time locating them online as I'm not exactly sure what they're called.
> 
> Any pictures of your setup or tips would be appreciated.
> 
> Thanks!


You need these brass derailleur cable adjusters from Dave Kirk: http://www.kirkframeworks.com/accessories.htm


----------



## Lithopedian

gandini said:


> How did you figure the sprockets/chain to get the right chain play for a fixie? There must be no adjustment from the vertical dropouts...


White Industries Eno Hub is the answer:
http://www.whiteind.com/rearhubs/singlespeedhubs.html
http://www.sheldonbrown.com/harris/white-hubs.html

I'm going to be rebuilding the bike this next week, its fun as a single but I needs me some gears.


----------



## BlackDoggystyle

MB-BMC said:


> @chocy: Thanks for the adivse. I can't try any of the frames, so I have to rely on the geometry specs compared to my BMC that fit's me perfect... My gut feeling tells me, that I need the ''missing size'' between the 55 and 58.
> 
> The 56cm FM028 has specs almost identical to my BMC, so following my gut feeling this is the frameset I need. Maybe I should rephrase my original question and ask:
> 
> Did anyone buy the FM028 frameset? (see picture) What's your pro/con verdict?
> 
> Thanks,
> Morten


This bike isn't on the market very long. I'm gonna order one next week, so in order to have a verdict you need some kilometers/miles on the bike before doing so.

Onces I have it will ride the first couple of days on regular road an then go for the last 150K of the Tour of Flanders...with the coublestones and everything. Hope to do the Superclassic...it's a mix of Tour the Flanders and Paris-roubaix. First part ...Koppenberg, Oude Kwaremont en Paterberg...then go to Carrefour de l'Arbre to do the last section of Paris-Roubaix.

I think if the bike holds it all you can say it's a good bike.  

In the hope i can make the bike until then off course.


btw...the frame is FM28 and not FM028 (TTframe)


----------



## PLAYONIT

*Finis finally...........*

Finished the new bike today and did about 10 miles..... very smooth and comfortable... a little twitchy standing and hammering over the bars but I will get used to it..... I will get a better report after a few more miles but I am so out of shape I might have to log more than a few miles.....


----------



## Thornbye

Jim311 said:


> ... Plus lets face it, a frame has ZERO moving parts. You get better performance from better quality parts, but it's debatable as to whether you get better performance from a more expensive frame.


The frame is the most important part together with the wheels. That's hardly debateable.

Anyway, I might feel tempted to try one of these frames as well. However, I'm a bit concerned about the safety. One thing is, that you may lose your money if it wrecks - you could lose a lot more...just imagine what could happen if it breaks during a descent.

Have any of these frames been approved for use in the EU or the US?

Thornbye


----------



## robpar

vaetuning said:


> Hi all
> 
> Here is some pictures of the final build
> 
> Even though it is very cold in Denmark right now (-6 celcious), I went for a little ride, just to see if it drives as it looks - it does - good, that is!!
> 
> Compared to my Scott CR-1 ´09 - still the old frame without the new comfort build in, it rides very nice, it does not feel as if you're sitting on a torture device, like the Scott sometimes does, when ridden on harsh roads, but it sure feels as if you're getting all the power to the rear wheel - it actually feels a little bit faster than the Scott.
> 
> There where no odd sounds from the frame whatsoever, and it tracks very surefooted, turns nice, has a very good balance and generally feels like a much more expensive frame than it is.
> 
> Of course I'll have to ride somemore when the weather gets better, but so far I like it very much.
> 
> The Driven group does NOT feel like a shimano 105 group - it is super precise in the shifts.
> It makes no odd noises,
> The ceramic crank bearings are as smooth as my Super Record on my Scott - Its simply the best value for money I've ever ridden.
> And it has got the lovely "clunk" when I shift gears - just like my campagnolo groupos - nice:thumbsup:
> 
> Cheers


How much vertical adjustment is left AFTER you cut the seatpost?

Thanks!


----------



## hawking0001

*used to sell these ebay bikes in uk*

for my two penneth, having ridden a few different frames fm015 easily the best fm001 easily the worst....... fm015 best design slim s/stays, beefy BB+headtube also the lightest ,as i recall bout 30 40 dollars more....... they are made by greatkeen in china as they were the cheapest and only ones that are happy about a factory visit,can make bespoke tooling(molds)..etc....the rest are just dealers..........o yes if i were buying for myself id get UD finish as BB area quite resinous (rtm maybe)ie black .............................................also the neo and velocite bikes arent generic ebay frames in any way (buy some from same factory as velocite has used) cant say about the magnus one but the other velocite frames use higher end carbon and more complex lay up
..o yes if you are buying ebay frame just get frame and fork off ebay, the extras not worth it and once or twice had to buy from ebay sellers rather than factory when needed something quick, cages seatposts etc and always that lil bit lesser quality,than factory...........one exception sorry the handlebars at 240gram have been 240 gram stiff enough, long term use couldnt say..... hope this helps


----------



## amtnbikinguy

*what model frame is that?*

can you post a link to that frame models page it looks like a nice frame do you have the frame part number?

I found these numbers at HongFu 
HF-FM015-SPL http://www.hongfu-bikes.com/Products.asp?Id=423
HF-FM015-SPL http://www.hongfu-bikes.com/Products.asp?Id=404

Are one of these that frame?


----------



## PLAYONIT

hawking0001 said:


> for my two penneth, having ridden a few different frames fm015 easily the best fm001 easily the worst....... fm015 best design slim s/stays, beefy BB+headtube also the lightest ,as i recall bout 30 40 dollars more....... they are made by greatkeen in china as they were the cheapest and only ones that are happy about a factory visit,can make bespoke tooling(molds)..etc....the rest are just dealers..........o yes if i were buying for myself id get UD finish as BB area quite resinous (rtm maybe)ie black .............................................also the neo and velocite bikes arent generic ebay frames in any way (buy some from same factory as velocite has used) cant say about the magnus one but the other velocite frames use higher end carbon and more complex lay up
> ..o yes if you are buying ebay frame just get frame and fork off ebay, the extras not worth it and once or twice had to buy from ebay sellers rather than factory when needed something quick, cages seatposts etc and always that lil bit lesser quality,than factory...........one exception sorry the handlebars at 240gram have been 240 gram stiff enough, long term use couldnt say..... hope this helps



Huh???????????


----------



## PlatyPius

PLAYONIT said:


> Huh???????????


Complete sentences are too difficult to form and type, ya see....


----------



## PLAYONIT

amtnbikinguy said:


> can you post a link to that frame models page it looks like a nice frame do you have the frame part number?
> 
> I found these numbers at HongFu
> HF-FM015-SPL http://www.hongfu-bikes.com/Products.asp?Id=423
> HF-FM015-SPL http://www.hongfu-bikes.com/Products.asp?Id=404
> 
> Are one of these that frame?


Yes HongFu HF-015-SPL


----------



## ms6073

hawking0001 said:


> ....... they are made by greatkeen in china as they were the cheapest and only ones that are happy about a factory visit, can make bespoke tooling(molds)..etc....the rest are just dealers..........


Hmm, while I may be wrong, I am pretty certain GreatKeen is nothing more than a marketing firm that represents a variety of manufacturers and not just from the bicycle industry.


----------



## chocy

PLAYONIT,

Finally!!! nice looking ride. I second that switchy issue when using longer stem and putting your weight forward, you have a couple of options, you get shorter stem (making handling rock solid) or learn to ride it as is. It is not exactly twitchy, it just feels like, there is a hinge at the middle of the bike (so to speak)


----------



## PLAYONIT

chocy said:


> PLAYONIT,
> 
> Finally!!! nice looking ride. I second that switchy issue when using longer stem and putting your weight forward, you have a couple of options, you get shorter stem (making handling rock solid) or learn to ride it as is. It is not exactly twitchy, it just feels like, there is a hinge at the middle of the bike (so to speak)


Thanks Man!!! I thought I was never going to get there.... It was a winter project that came in as projected thank goodness,,,,, although twitchy..it feels rock solid and stout.... I push 208lbs on my way 175... I am sure as soon as I am pushing less weight it should even out.... BTW.. after seeing your finished build.. it gave me the drive to get it done...


----------



## PLAYONIT

ms6073 said:


> Hmm, while I may be wrong, I am pretty certain GreatKeen is nothing more than a marketing firm that represents a variety of manufacturers and not just from the bicycle industry.



Yes....Greatkeen is a distributor not a manufacturer ......


----------



## ajun8088

PLAYONIT said:


> Yes....Greatkeen is a distributor not a manufacturer ......


The HongFu is a manufacturer.They have Factory website:www.hongfu-bikes.com. and e-shop website: www.e-hongfu-bikes.com . very nice.


----------



## PLAYONIT

ajun8088 said:


> The HongFu is a manufacturer.They have Factory website:www.hongfu-bikes.com. and e-shop website: www.e-hongfu-bikes.com . very nice.



Hongfu is not a manufacturer.... they are a distributor....


----------



## makntracks

hi all ive been doing a little research ive emailed over 20 companies over there have got prices on a lot of different item over last few weeks.
so far ive found.
and before everyone jumps onto alaiba ive contacted alot of sellers to get no reply and most will only sell to 50+ shipments. ive spoken to a few that will do one of shipments as a trail or to show your customers ect.
how reiable these sources are with comming through with the product is a completly other question.
i have spoken to jenny and she has been more than helpful.
ill put some links to the 2 supliers i emailed and that replied with helpfull information.
http://wishbonetw.com/ProdSort.aspx?ProdSort=1001
and hong fu site.
wishbone has some good complete wheels that hong fu do not offer.
now i have a few questions.
ive picked out frame and parts but not shore what groupset to go or wheels.
the bike would be ridden approx 100ks comuting on weekdays and 100k riding on weekends but looking to start racing a little more.
ive made table that will hopefully help ppl out if making a decision or just looking for the same info as i was.
any help coments much appreciated.
all info is as ive been quoted and weights are approx from various sources.
thanx
mick


----------



## PLAYONIT

makntracks said:


> hi all ive been doing a little research ive emailed over 20 companies over there have got prices on a lot of different item over last few weeks.
> so far ive found.
> and before everyone jumps onto alaiba ive contacted alot of sellers to get no reply and most will only sell to 50+ shipments. ive spoken to a few that will do one of shipments as a trail or to show your customers ect.
> how reiable these sources are with comming through with the product is a completly other question.
> i have spoken to jenny and she has been more than helpful.
> ill put some links to the 2 supliers i emailed and that replied with helpfull information.
> http://wishbonetw.com/ProdSort.aspx?ProdSort=1001
> and hong fu site.
> wishbone has some good complete wheels that hong fu do not offer.
> now i have a few questions.
> ive picked out frame and parts but not shore what groupset to go or wheels.
> the bike would be ridden approx 100ks comuting on weekdays and 100k riding on weekends but looking to start racing a little more.
> ive made table that will hopefully help ppl out if making a decision or just looking for the same info as i was.
> any help coments much appreciated.
> all info is as ive been quoted and weights are approx from various sources.
> thanx
> mick



I just finished the bike above in this thread,,,,, I built it up with Sram red components... your prices are very high....I bid on ebay for example, you have the Sram Brake/shifters at $543... I bid on them and got them brand new in Box on ebay for $325us...... I bought all red components new for less then you state...... shop around don't be in a hurry and you can save some real money..... good luck


----------



## makntracks

yeah will be shoping around prices straight off wiggle just to get idea of diferences. do you think im better off bidding for the items individualy or getting a group set of ebay i can get one in aus for about $1500 aus.


----------



## MB-BMC

BlackDoggystyle said:


> This bike isn't on the market very long. I'm gonna order one next week, so in order to have a verdict you need some kilometers/miles on the bike before doing so.
> 
> Onces I have it will ride the first couple of days on regular road an then go for the last 150K of the Tour of Flanders...with the coublestones and everything. Hope to do the Superclassic...it's a mix of Tour the Flanders and Paris-roubaix. First part ...Koppenberg, Oude Kwaremont en Paterberg...then go to Carrefour de l'Arbre to do the last section of Paris-Roubaix.
> 
> I think if the bike holds it all you can say it's a good bike.
> 
> In the hope i can make the bike until then off course.
> 
> 
> btw...the frame is FM28 and not FM028 (TTframe)


That is some serious testing..! Please keep us informed about how it holds up :thumbsup: 

btw... They actually call it FM028 (just to add some confusion with the TT frame I guess) :wink5: http://dgxtkj.en.alibaba.com/produc..._road_frame_frame_set_road_bicycle_parts.html


----------



## ms6073

The carbon Tiime Trial frameset referenced from Alibaba is the Dengfu model FM018


----------



## bikerjulio

makntracks said:


> hi all ive been doing a little research ive emailed over 20 companies over there have got prices on a lot of different item over last few weeks.
> so far ive found.
> and before everyone jumps onto alaiba ive contacted alot of sellers to get no reply and most will only sell to 50+ shipments. ive spoken to a few that will do one of shipments as a trail or to show your customers ect.
> how reiable these sources are with comming through with the product is a completly other question.
> i have spoken to jenny and she has been more than helpful.
> ill put some links to the 2 supliers i emailed and that replied with helpfull information.
> http://wishbonetw.com/ProdSort.aspx?ProdSort=1001
> and hong fu site.
> wishbone has some good complete wheels that hong fu do not offer.
> now i have a few questions.
> ive picked out frame and parts but not shore what groupset to go or wheels.
> the bike would be ridden approx 100ks comuting on weekdays and 100k riding on weekends but looking to start racing a little more.
> ive made table that will hopefully help ppl out if making a decision or just looking for the same info as i was.
> any help coments much appreciated.
> all info is as ive been quoted and weights are approx from various sources.
> thanx
> mick


suggest you add Chorus at $1080 to the mix. v little difference to Record.


----------



## PlatyPius

PLAYONIT said:


> Hongfu is not a manufacturer.... they are a distributor....


Really?

http://www.hongfu-bikes.com/about.asp


----------



## MarvinK

Weird that they have to censor the workers faces...

I have some asian videos with similar censoring... but they aren't building bikes!


----------



## Thornbye

Jim311 said:


> You sound like an elitist, more interested in looks than you are in function.
> 
> 
> These frames are not for you. If you want a bike that looks like a Pinarello, buy a Pinarello!



There are approved reasonably priced carbon frames out there on the real market if you go for function rather than looks. What about Canyon (raw carbon) and Red Bull? OK, they are slightly more expensive, but they come with a warranty and, for complete bikes, lots of quality components.

Thornbye


----------



## mjdwyer23

I built my SL2 for looks. It was fun, but I am over it. I am now selling it and building a PF RS2 -- the decal-less carbon looks swank!


----------



## ms6073

A few images of the completed build based on the Dengfu FM018 Carbon Time Trial Frame imported from GreatKeen:


----------



## Dutch77

ms6073 said:


> A few images of the completed build based on the Dengfu FM018 Carbon Time Trial Frame imported from GreatKeen:


Daaaaaaaaaaaayum!

Very nice man! Hope we get a ride report soon.

Did you get the handlebars from them too?


----------



## mrbubbles

That looks like an excellent copy of Cervelo P3, at 1/4.5 of the price, the color matching is spiffy. Do you have a bigger picture?


----------



## mjdwyer23

Nice dude!


----------



## ms6073

Dutch77 said:


> Hope we get a ride report soon.


Put in 60-minutes before work this morning on the normal training loop consisting of primarily surface streets with a 7-mile section of secluded bike path in the middle. Riding the training wheels, a set of Reynolds Assault carbon clinchers w/Veloflex Corsa tires, I find the ride to be good - firm/solid but not beating me up. Of course I think it would be difficult to offer qualitative comparisons in terms of performance/power output between the old frames - a Giant TCR TT Composite - that the Dengfu FM018 is replacing, especially since I recalibrated the SRM over the weekend. From a percieved effort standpoint, using speed versus power output during this mornings training ride was definitely an improvement over the old bike frame and initial thoughts are I like this frame a lot better than the Giant it replaces. As for the aerobars, these are 3T Ventus Team (alloy extensions)



mrbubbles said:


> That looks like an excellent copy of Cervelo P3, at 1/4.5 of the price, the color matching is spiffy. Do you have a bigger picture?


I thought that also but was also thinking it had a similar front triangle as that of the 08/09 Trek TTX coupled to the rear end of a Cervelo P3C. Also The orginal images exceeded the forums iamge posting size limits but I can upload them and post the links.


----------



## lawrencemonsters

On the rims you should check out Bicycle wheel warehouse. I bought some rims for my wife and the quality is second to none and together the pair is only 1420 grams.


----------



## lawrencemonsters

the price on the rims from bicycle wheel warehouse was cheap also. alot less than neuvatioin.


----------



## lawrencemonsters

Beautiful bike. I ordered the same frame for my wife on saturday and hope that it will arrive this weekend. I am also going to build it up with sram red, fsa carbon crankset, trp brake calipers and bicycle wheel warehouse rims. I am excited to get the frame and build it up. Yours looks Great.


----------



## tthome

lawrencemonsters said:


> On the rims you should check out Bicycle wheel warehouse. I bought some rims for my wife and the quality is second to none and together the pair is only 1420 grams.


which rims did you order from BWW?


----------



## Sk1pp3r

When you purchase an ISP frame does the seat clamp come with it or is that extra. ie.from Hong-fu


----------



## RC28

ms6073 said:


> A few images of the completed build based on the Dengfu FM018 Carbon Time Trial Frame imported from GreatKeen:


W O W !!!!

Stunning, just stunning.


----------



## PLAYONIT

Sk1pp3r said:


> When you purchase an ISP frame does the seat clamp come with it or is that extra. ie.from Hong-fu


It comes with the bike..... also order their Head set which is for the tapered 1.125 - 1.500 head tube ( I believe it's $10-15)... and don't forget extra derailleur hangers which they should throw in.... I forgot to ask for the extras hangers and just contacted Jenny...she says I can get them but the freight would be exorbitant....


----------



## lawrencemonsters

the black set race rims. Good looking but have not used them yet. too much snow in utah.


----------



## iSuffer

Great thread, I've been considering a Nuevation but I am intrigued by the Fu bikes.

My wrenching experience is fairly limited, as is my experience with new fangled components. I have 2 bikes, an OCLV trek from 98 and a mid 80s steel 12 speed project bike. Clearly building a new bike piece by piece is over my head, but I not giving in just yet. I have lots of questions, but will start w/ these:

1 - cutting the CF steerer/fork down to size scares the bejesus out of me. Can anyone share their experience?
2 - the CF bike I have now has an alum seat post. Have people here had issues w/ CF seatposts de-laminating or sticking to the frame?

Any guidance is appreciated. Apologies if there is a more suitable forum for these.


----------



## mjdwyer23

1. Either cut it with a carbide blade (not a toothed one) hacksaw or take it to your LBS, they can do it in 5 mins, sometimes for free
2. Use carbon paste instead of grease and you will be ok



iSuffer said:


> Great thread, I've been considering a Nuevation but I am intrigued by the Fu bikes.
> 
> My wrenching experience is fairly limited, as is my experience with new fangled components. I have 2 bikes, an OCLV trek from 98 and a mid 80s steel 12 speed project bike. Clearly building a new bike piece by piece is over my head, but I not giving in just yet. I have lots of questions, but will start w/ these:
> 
> 1 - cutting the CF steerer/fork down to size scares the bejesus out of me. Can anyone share their experience?
> 2 - the CF bike I have now has an alum seat post. Have people here had issues w/ CF seatposts de-laminating or sticking to the frame?
> 
> Any guidance is appreciated. Apologies if there is a more suitable forum for these.


----------



## Sidmyre

mjdwyer23 said:


> 1. Either cut it with a carbide blade (not a toothed one) hacksaw or take it to your LBS, they can do it in 5 mins, sometimes for free
> 2. Use carbon paste instead of grease and you will be ok



I second the " take it to your LBS, they can do it in 5 mins, sometimes for free", much easier this way and less worries of screwing it up.


----------



## MarvinK

My experience is that most bike shops aren't jumping at the chance to touch some no-name carbon fork--and likely won't cut it for free. Even at $25-50, its better than messing it up on your own.


----------



## karlo

I have used this on all my forks and never had a problem just take it slow.

https://www.rothenberger.com/uploads/pics/pg04-tube-cutter-35-pro-02_01.jpg


----------



## iSuffer

Sidmyre, karlo, MarvinK, and midwyer23, thanks for your quick inputs.

I was also concerned w correctly measuring the cut for the column, but Parktools has a nice guide.

Now however, I have to shift to dollars. As I stated in my initial post, I am considering a Neuvation bike, specifically the CF/alloy rival which prices at $1600+ship. 

To compare to a FM015 build, Jensen has rival group build kit at ~$1200-$1300 w wheels, tires, etc. With a little shopping I can prob knock off a few $ here and there, but I'm just as likely to find a few reasons to upgrade so its reasonable to expect to end up in the same range. Add the bike itself at ~$500 and I'm over the Neuvation price. I have some tools but will have to pick up the BB tool and other odds and ends.

I expect that I would enjoy building the bike but will the $1800 spent on a FM015 rival be better than the Neuvation? I know that each individual has own preferences, yada, yada but I am interested in your opinions. Thanks again.


----------



## Sk1pp3r

I am hoping to order a FM015 soon so once I get it I will let you know. I have heard very good things about Neuvation though and might look into their wheels.


----------



## Sk1pp3r

I was wondering for anyone who has the FM015 frame, does the rear brake cable housing continue through the top tube or is it two pieces one on each side?


----------



## HeluvaSkier

Sk1pp3r said:


> I was wondering for anyone who has the FM015 frame, does the rear brake cable housing continue through the top tube or is it two pieces one on each side?


Two pieces on each end. The frame has internal housing.


----------



## Sk1pp3r

Thanks! Just trying to estimate what cables I need to get to have everything ready to build.


----------



## HeluvaSkier

Sk1pp3r said:


> Thanks! Just trying to estimate what cables I need to get to have everything ready to build.


I used Yokozuna Reaction cables and housing with SRAM Force. They worked fine.


----------



## chrcoe

MarvinK said:


> My experience is that most bike shops aren't jumping at the chance to touch some no-name carbon fork--and likely won't cut it for free. Even at $25-50, its better than messing it up on your own.



my LBS is cutting mine for ~$5, but I also had them face/chase the threads for my BB before I installed it, so they gave me somewhat of a discount (normally they charge around $10 for cutting the fork.


----------



## dummey

Was wondering if anybody has come across a clone of a Cervelo S2?


----------



## ansetou

hello, i just ordered a frame, fork, headset, seat clamp and couple cages from bycicle_999. the total ran me $400 including shipping and i paid w/ paypal. does anyone know how long it'll take this guy to ship it? it took me a week of back and forwards to get him to put the "shipping to NYC included" phrase on his paypal invoice and now 3 days after paying, i'm still not getting any tracking info.


----------



## ansetou

on another note, has anyone tried to ask these dealer/factory to custom make something for you? i am looking for a very short road handlebar for my wife and I was wondering if it's possible to ask them to build me a bar to my spec? after all these carbon parts are all handmade, right?


----------



## Italianrider76

ansetou said:


> on another note, has anyone tried to ask these dealer/factory to custom make something for you? i am looking for a very short road handlebar for my wife and I was wondering if it's possible to ask them to build me a bar to my spec? after all these carbon parts are all handmade, right?


I doubt it. All the carbon parts are made with the use of molds so it's highly unlikely that they will make a new mold just for a one off handle bar which they will sell for $40.


----------



## MarvinK

Bontrager makes a shallow drop womens bar in a 36cm... which fits my 9yr old daughter. My guess is it small enough for most women! Aluminum in 36, carbon in 38.

http://www.bontrager.com/model/08368


----------



## HeluvaSkier

MarvinK said:


> Bontrager makes a shallow drop womens bar in a 36cm... which fits my 9yr old daughter. My guess is it small enough for most women! Aluminum in 36, carbon in 38.
> 
> http://www.bontrager.com/model/08368


Wow, that's a tiny bar.


----------



## ms6073

ansetou said:


> hello, i just ordered a frame, fork, headset, seat clamp and couple cages from bycicle_999. the total ran me $400 including shipping and i paid w/ paypal. does anyone know how long it'll take this guy to ship it?


Did you purchase from Ebay or direct? If you purchased from Ebay and the seller is unresponsive then use the Ebay system to get a resolution. If you purcahsed direct, in many instances the manufacturer will either have stock on the frame or maybe have to actually manufactuer one which takes time. When I recieved my time trial frame 21-days after payment was sent, the list of paperwork included a sheet with EMS tracking numbers for 20-30 other frames being sent to various places in the US. My guess is that once a frame order is completed, they do not immediately ship that one frame as that would be very cost prohibitive, but instead gather as many orders as possible to fill an air freight cargo container so that they can ship them by air all at the same time.


----------



## amd

So having finished your build, any other cons you'd add to the list? I'm working on collecting parts for the same frame and am looking to be prepared for the issues i'll encounter.


----------



## PlatyPius

ansetou said:


> on another note, has anyone tried to ask these dealer/factory to custom make something for you? i am looking for a very short road handlebar for my wife and I was wondering if it's possible to ask them to build me a bar to my spec? after all these carbon parts are all handmade, right?


They'll be happy to do it. It will cost you $200,000 for the molds and $40 for the bar. Then they'll use "your" molds to build handlebars for other people. But those people will only have to pay $40, whereas you paid $200,040.

Now you know why I detest these companies that sell these crap frames. Use someone else's mold, use a cheaper mix of carbon and epoxy, and voila! A frame that looks like a name brand, but isn't. Sell on eBay for $400. Repeat.


----------



## willhs

For some reason, PlatyPius, it really doesn't disgust me. You could also argue that big bike companies make frames that are all really pretty similar and made in the same factory but they advertise theirs as being dramatically different, and charge thousands of dollars for something that cost hundreds to make.

Ansetou, I bought my parts in the exact same way you did, and they arrived in about a week. I don't think I got tracking info, either. Honestly, tracking info isn't needed.


----------



## PlatyPius

willhs said:


> For some reason, PlatyPius, it really doesn't disgust me. You could also argue that big bike companies make frames that are all really pretty similar and made in the same factory but they advertise theirs as being dramatically different, and charge thousands of dollars for something that cost hundreds to make.
> 
> Ansetou, I bought my parts in the exact same way you did, and they arrived in about a week. I don't think I got tracking info, either. Honestly, tracking info isn't needed.


They ARE dramatically different. Each company has invested lots of time, effort, and $ into designing a bike that rides better in some way. Faster, more comfortable, whatever. They take these plans to one of the few builders in Taiwan or China. If they've picked China, odds are that the frame they've designed will show up on eBay with some slight modification for 1/3 the price of theirs. Fuji CCR is a good example.

I bought one of the Bottecchia frames off of eBay. I worked at a Fuji dealer at the time. The front triangle was identical between my frame and a Fuji CCR. The rear triangle on mine had straight stays, while the Fuji had curved stays. #1) Carbon fibre frames are usually molded in more than one piece - front triangle and then rear stays. #2) Fuji's curved stays were patented.

So, they made a copy of a CCR using Fuji's own molds, but changing the rear stays. Looking at them side-by-side, the Fuji's surface was smooth and had no imperfections. The crap China frame had pits in the epoxy, crooked carbon fibre layout. The Fuji was flawless.

The Fuji CCR had a nice feel to it on the road. It absorbed some of the road shock, and gave a decent amount of feedback. The China crap rode like a piece of wood. It was completely dead. I sold it after putting 200 miles on it.

You really do get what you pay for.


----------



## willhs

Dramatically different? Really?

My bike was $2k for a 15lb all crabon SRAM red bike. To get that from Fuji would cost at least $6k. What would I be getting for the extra $4k, besides a pretty nice used car? I'll tell you from my riding experience, I wouldn't possibly be able to justify the extra money for the brand name.

We really don't have to agree on this. I understand what your view is, and I'm pointing out an alternate view.


----------



## Sk1pp3r

Well, for me I don't think I would notice a difference between the two frames. I haven't ridden enough to know. Maybe I'm wrong. So the china carbon one will be a decent upgrade from what I have now. Plus, even if it is flawed I have 9 more chances to buy one that is decent (assuming $4000 name brand frame). I understand some people "need" to have the name on the side for "safety", "peace of mind" or "justifiability" but for me I'm happy just to be out riding, and if I can do it for less money, so be it. If you want to have the nice name brand frame and have the money to do so, then go for it. I'm just saying it's not for me. I don't have the experience you do, to tell the difference, or the money.


----------



## mjdwyer23

I sold my SL2 to build up my Pedal Force bike. I had my first ride today, and it was amazing. The bike is stiff, responsive, and comfortable, and the geometry lends itself to stability rather than twitchiness. I am absolutely sure that I made the right decision. I like the way this $1800 bike rides MUCH better than my $5k SL2. Having now ridden Rival and Red, I couldn't see myself paying that much for Red again. 

As far as things I ran into during the build, the only thing I didn't like was the cables that it came with. However, I work for Gore, so I will have a set of Ride-On cables shortly. 

Bike weighs 15.9 lbs and cost less than half than my SL2.

Here's a pic finished on the stand, I will get good ones later.


----------



## PlatyPius

Sk1pp3r said:


> Well, for me I don't think I would notice a difference between the two frames. I haven't ridden enough to know. Maybe I'm wrong. So the china carbon one will be a decent upgrade from what I have now. Plus, even if it is flawed I have 9 more chances to buy one that is decent (assuming $4000 name brand frame). I understand some people "need" to have the name on the side for "safety", "peace of mind" or "justifiability" but for me I'm happy just to be out riding, and if I can do it for less money, so be it. If you want to have the nice name brand frame and have the money to do so, then go for it. I'm just saying it's not for me. I don't have the experience you do, to tell the difference, or the money.


The Fuji CCR frame was $1200, if I remember correctly.

It's not the "name on the downtube" that I want - it's fairness. Someone else paid designers to come up with those designs, and then they were stolen, or at least copied. Just like some people wouldn't mind having a fake Rolex and others would. It's worth it to me to pay the premium to a company that paid designers and engineers to develop the bike, because they'll continue to make more bikes. If the only bikes left are Chinese copies and generic bikes, then there will be no 'soul' left in cycling.

I agree that many people won't be able to tell the difference between a name-brand frame and a knock-off; just as many people can't tell the difference between the real and fake Rolex or a real or fake Coach bag. I'm one of those who can.

And yes, I have a vested interest in the whole thing since I own a bike shop. My opinion was the same before I started my shop, though.


----------



## freekthefunk

*Just doing what the big boys do.*

The American company's sourced Asian companies to save some money. I just did the same thing when I got my Asian frame. I am sure that the manufactures knew what some of the risks where going into this relationship. If they don't want their molds used they can always bring the production line back home. Just my two cents.


----------



## MarvinK

I don't think Pedal Force is as bad as some of those other asian knock-off companies--it's a known entity and has a warranty (better warranty than BMC or Pinarello, actually). 

There are a couple of bikes on here that are pretty obvious rip-offs of Cervelo and Trek designs, and those companies make no effort to hide the fact they are ripping off other brands. Of course, the idea that some of these guys have of putting putting the wrong maker's stickers (like the Cannondale rip-off) just makes it that much more ridiculous.


----------



## Dutch77

Avisson said:


> :7: :7: I bought my carbon frame a few days ago from eBay,whose username is carbonzone .she is really coooooooolllll!especially her frame design,and the weight is also unbelievablely light.And I think carbon fiber is quite well.
> I love her so much.:7:


Very subtle.


----------



## serfur1

PlatyPius said:


> If the only bikes left are Chinese copies and generic bikes, then there will be no 'soul' left in cycling.


Carbon bikes having soul. that's a good one. :mad2: treks are soulless no matter the material.


----------



## willhs

PlatyPius, I'm glad you're up front about your bias. I'll go ahead and guess that Motobecane is bad for cycling as well.

I think you guys are overestimating how hard the bike companies work to make their frame different. There really isn't a dramatic difference between bike frame designs. John at Neuvation pointed it out correctly, I think, that bike companies just need to make something that seems unique, and then market the difference as something AMAZING. Most of the "research and development" is done more by the factories in Taiwan on how to make the bike -- oh wait, those are the knockoffs...


----------



## Grabeef

PlatyPius said:


> They'll be happy to do it. It will cost you $200,000 for the molds and $40 for the bar. Then they'll use "your" molds to build handlebars for other people. But those people will only have to pay $40, whereas you paid $200,040.
> 
> Now you know why I detest these companies that sell these crap frames. Use someone else's mold, use a cheaper mix of carbon and epoxy, and voila! A frame that looks like a name brand, but isn't. Sell on eBay for $400. Repeat.



Have a look here

http://www.bikeradar.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=12681808&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=60

and scroll down to the post by DaveplanetX for info about how the "smaller" companies work and some costs. $200,000 is way off the mark.
I would also query the references I read to "cheap", "inferior" etc etc carbon. Carbon has been around for a long(ish) time. I used to row and getting on for 20 years ago I had my own carbon sculling boat and carbon oars. Like most composite boats at the time it was made in a small workshop by a small company with a couple of employees using the vacuum bag moulding technique. Great boat and tough as nails. If anyone here rows they will know that boats get abused, clamped onto racks using ratchet straps, being blown off a 10ft + high trailer onto a tarmac carpark etc. Are you telling me that in the 20 yrs since then carbon has got worse, or that moulding techniques have not improved? Surely even cheap carbon components are better than they were years ago. And the FM015 apparently is manufactured to the EU standard and has a 2 year warrenty.

And as for "knockoffs" back then you would buy your hull in either a Stampflii shape or an Empacher shape. With a slight alteration to the stern or bows so the shape was not quite the same. I do not recall anyone referring to their boat as a knockoff, so taking moulds off other hulls / frames is nothing new.

As for my FM015, finally finished it. Went out for a quick spin last night. Very comfy considering I took a guess at stem length / height. Riding on the hoods is new to me and every movement with my hands / arms seems magnified on the steering. I assume that is down to having ridden an mtb for years. Hopefully I will get used to it.


----------



## PlatyPius

Grabeef said:


> Have a look here
> 
> http://www.bikeradar.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=12681808&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=60
> 
> and scroll down to the post by DaveplanetX for info about how the "smaller" companies work and some costs.* $200,000 is way off the mark.*
> I would also query the references I read to "cheap", "inferior" etc etc carbon. Carbon has been around for a long(ish) time. I used to row and getting on for 20 years ago I had my own carbon sculling boat and carbon oars. Like most composite boats at the time it was made in a small workshop by a small company with a couple of employees using the vacuum bag moulding technique. Great boat and tough as nails. If anyone here rows they will know that boats get abused, clamped onto racks using ratchet straps, being blown off a 10ft + high trailer onto a tarmac carpark etc. Are you telling me that in the 20 yrs since then carbon has got worse, or that moulding techniques have not improved? Surely even cheap carbon components are better than they were years ago. And the FM015 apparently is manufactured to the EU standard and has a 2 year warrenty.
> 
> And as for "knockoffs" back then you would buy your hull in either a Stampflii shape or an Empacher shape. With a slight alteration to the stern or bows so the shape was not quite the same. I do not recall anyone referring to their boat as a knockoff, so taking moulds off other hulls / frames is nothing new.
> 
> As for my FM015, finally finished it. Went out for a quick spin last night. Very comfy considering I took a guess at stem length / height. Riding on the hoods is new to me and every movement with my hands / arms seems magnified on the steering. I assume that is down to having ridden an mtb for years. Hopefully I will get used to it.


It really wasn't obvious to all that I pulled a number out of my arse? You really had to go research that?
The figure I gave was illustrative.


----------



## Rob81

well I do race (granfondos, not Under23 or Elite), anyway I can say I feel a difference from my Eaby and my Greatkeen frame (Fm015 with ISP) and others.
On a scale from better to worse in my last 2 years

9/10 >Fm015 ISP
7.5/10 >Specy Tarmac 2008 (way below the Fm015)
7/10 >The Ebay Frame (the one with a bigger section tube in the connection with vertical tube, very sloopy)
6.5/10 >Specy Roubaix 2008

All comparisons with same wheels (for training and not).


----------



## ansetou

ms6073, thanks for you advise. i did the transaction thru paypal but not ebay. he's already mailed it and i have the tracking info. curious if anyone knows the EMS tracking date/time are in China TZ or US TZ. 

As for fairness, I don't think it's fair that we get charged so much for the brand name. coming from a telecom background, i know R&D (research & development) is only a small piece (10~15%) of the whole pie of cost. a lot more is spent on sales and marketing.in the case of bike, payments to ppl like armstrong so that an amateur can be brainwashed to think he may ride like the champions. does that sound fair to you? by the time it reaches us, a hefty profit margin is added on the top for the manufacture, distributor, LBS. 

BTW, nothing against armstrong, it's just the first name that pops into my head.


----------



## ms6073

If you are looking for a means to track your shipment before it reaches your own country, you can try the Chungwa Post (EMS) website. Note this is the link to the english translated site and if you scroll down the page, you will see several links for Track & Trace Service and try entering your tracking number on the page linked to the EMS Tracking Service.


----------



## ms6073

amd said:


> So having finished your build, any other cons you'd add to the list? I'm working on collecting parts for the same frame and am looking to be prepared for the issues i'll encounter.


If this is in reference to my post of pros and cons for the Dengfu FM018 Carbon Time Trial Frame, other than adding that after ~50-miles of training rides on the tt bike in moderate to windy conditions this past week, but I am really liking the way the bike fits and feels while out on the road. I will mention once again that the way in which the rear brake cable is run tends to make rear braking action less than optimal but experienced riders can easily compensate by feathering with the front brake. I am still on the fence about trying to fabricate a cable stop/guide to prevent flex in the brake cable/housing under the bottom bracket or simply spending additional $$$ on a Simkins Design aero brakeset.


----------



## lawrencemonsters

*fm015*

I ordered the frame from Jenny on saturday and want to know how long it took you all to get your frame from China. Please let me know. The RED gouppo that I have wants to me installed right away.:thumbsup:


----------



## Sk1pp3r

I didn't mean to offend anyone if I did. I was just sharing that for me right now I can afford this china carbon frame, and don't have enough experience to tell the difference. Once I get some miles under my belt, and graduate from my masters program, I will be able to afford one of these name-brand frames. I will test ride and make the decision then. But still, if this frame performs close to the name-brand, I think as a consumer I would opt for the cheaper of the two. It doesn't matter to me what frame name, it matters that I'm having fun.


----------



## PLAYONIT

lawrencemonsters said:


> I ordered the frame from Jenny on saturday and want to know how long it took you all to get your frame from China. Please let me know. The RED gouppo that I have wants to me installed right away.:thumbsup:


5 business days from Hongfu to Western New York..... very quick....


----------



## freekthefunk

Sk1pp3r said:


> I didn't mean to offend anyone if I did. I was just sharing that for me right now I can afford this china carbon frame, and don't have enough experience to tell the difference. Once I get some miles under my belt, and graduate from my masters program, I will be able to afford one of these name-brand frames. I will test ride and make the decision then. But still, if this frame performs close to the name-brand, I think as a consumer I would opt for the cheaper of the two. It doesn't matter to me what frame name, it matters that I'm having fun.


Ditto, I am working on my M.S. (my stipend doesn't pay well) and cracked my road frame, which is my main mode of transportation. So I was going to buy a used or mediocre new frame until I saw one of these carbon frames and thought I would take the chance. I also will try out the big brands when I graduate and am making enough money to spend on bicycles. I have a feeling I won't be able to precive a difference. I bought my current frame from a company that has a retail website and a 2 year warranty. Seems legit enough to me.


----------



## lawrencemonsters

*shipping from hong fu*

When the frame came from Jenny what company delivered the package? Was it FED EX or UPS?


----------



## PLAYONIT

lawrencemonsters said:


> When the frame came from Jenny what company delivered the package? Was it FED EX or UPS?


Mine was delivered by USPS.........


----------



## lawrencemonsters

So Mine could come today?


----------



## stevesbike

ems hands packages off to USPS once the package enters the US and clears customs. The EMS tracking number works in the usps tracking system once the package gets into their system.


----------



## Sk1pp3r

So I totally forgot to get some extra headset spacers. For the FM015 frame are the spacers 1" or 1/1/8". I think they are the later but wanted to check before going and getting some.


----------



## PLAYONIT

Sk1pp3r said:


> So I totally forgot to get some extra headset spacers. For the FM015 frame are the spacers 1" or 1/1/8". I think they are the later but wanted to check before going and getting some.


1-1/8th


----------



## MarvinK

They better be 1 1/8" or you just bought the most outdated carbon bike you could find!


----------



## Sk1pp3r

Well it looks like it is modern after all. Tracking puts it in New York!! I'm soo excited.


----------



## tthome

I'd like to get the FM015 frameset with headset and seatpost. Can someone PM me who they got their best price and contact info? I already have the Kuota Kredo clone and want the FM015 now. Thanks, keep up the great thread!!!! I'll be posting mine soon.


----------



## HeluvaSkier

*015-SPL Ride Report*

I took my first real ride on my 015-SPL tonight. The route was flat, so I'll reserve climbing judgment for when I can get into some hills. 

My BB30 015-SPL is setup with 2010 SRAM Force and Reynolds Assault wheels. I did a quick 20 mile loop that is about as flat as it gets. My first impressions of the bike are really good. It seems very smooth (dampens out little road vibrations), but also extremely stiff (bumps can be a bit jarring). The bike accelerates like no bike I have ever ridden before, and handles turns extremely well. Overall I think it is a much better bike than my KTM Strada LC. Because my KTM is a bit softer I think it will be better suited to long rides, but either bike would be fun to ride a century on. The handling of the bike is superior to any bike I've been on (admittedly only a dozen bikes or so). I'm running a 120mm stem (usually run a 100) so the steering feel is different from what I'm used to, but it feels really solid in corners. For other eBay frames I have ridden the forks have been the weakest part of the package, but the front end of the 015 is stiff and stable. Saturday I had it up over 30mph in the flats here in my neighborhood and took some sweeping turns and it felt great. I can't wait to see how it climbs. I suspect it will be a very good climber due to how stiff it is. The ISP and carbon railed saddle make potholes very uncomfortable though...


----------



## doggatas

This is brilliant to hear considering i just ordered 2 of them.

Roughly how long does it take once you have made payment?


----------



## HeluvaSkier

doggatas said:


> Roughly how long does it take once you have made payment?


It depends what you want. I custom ordered BB30 and UD weave gloss finish so it took several months (and the first time they screwed up and made the frame without BB30). Jenny from Hong-Fu was very good at communicating though. When they made the frame without BB30 she was very honest about it and said she would re-order the frame (and actually put a rush on it, so it would be done faster). Most other people who have ordered a frame that wasn't a "special order" have received theirs in a few weeks.


----------



## karlo

I'm a bit new in the weaves and already seen the 3k and 12k but what are the BB30 and UD and can someone post a picture of the different weaves or can you give me a link to where I can see them.


----------



## doggatas

Yeh ok cool, i guess my order was fairly customized.

1 fm015 spl, English BB, sample paint job without the words sample(white/3k carbon)

and a fm015 English BB, sample paint job but pink.

Looking forward to getting the frames to see how the fair against my s-works roubaix

Just thinking about it, i reckon the UD carbon/gloss would be better with the sample paint job!


----------



## doggatas

BB30 is the bottom bracket type, pressed internal bottom bracket bearing instead of threaded external bearing.

UD carbon is like the finish on FACT specialized carbon.

Im guessing UD is an acronym for UniDirectional


----------



## HeluvaSkier

Almost forgot - really crappy cell phone pics: 

Real weight = 15.2lbs ready to ride. 



















Also some might be interested in the seat clamp setup. It is a 36.9mm Specialized post clamp and a 32.4mm Thomson Elite post cut down to 70mm. The whole thing weighs about 140g to 150g - so not really 'WW' but it works very well, and holds carbon rails for my SLR Carbonio. So, if you're looking for a seat post to put inside the mast it take a 32.4mm post perfectly, and the OD clamp size is 37mm, which is a standard Specialized MTB clamp size - which can be ordered from their site. I think I have a total of $45-$50 in the mast topper, so it wasn't terribly expensive considering the weight and versatility. The only problem is that it doesn't allow setback, so some may have an issue with it. If you need setback I'd recommend trying the FSA K-Force setback post which is also available in a 32.4mm size... although much more expensive.


----------



## HeluvaSkier

FWIW, I'd love to build an 015 or 015-SPL up as a crit racer with SRAM Rival. I think a full build could be well below $2k and fairly light (probably in the 16-16.5lb range). For a crit bike that you're going to crash and otherwise beat on, I think these are good "throw away" frames. The one I built up has too many nice components on it to be crashing much, so I'm hoping to keep that to a minimum.


----------



## chocy

HeluvaSkier, 

VERY NICE!!

I really like how you did the seatpost. I may look into something like that for cleaner look. (But I do need the setback) 
Although if I may, your seatpost setup may be the reason you feel the ride is harsh? It certainly isn't a noodle soft (actually pretty darn stiff) but I feel that It won't beat me up at any distance (I have done a several centuries already) 

I also have the assault wheel on it now and it is a great combination!! I also like your Red chainring on your force crank .


----------



## HeluvaSkier

chocy said:


> HeluvaSkier,
> 
> VERY NICE!!
> 
> I really like how you did the seatpost. I may look into something like that for cleaner look. (But I do need the setback)
> Although if I may, your seatpost setup may be the reason you feel the ride is harsh? It certainly isn't a noodle soft (actually pretty darn stiff) but I feel that It won't beat me up at any distance (I have done a several centuries already)
> 
> I also have the assault wheel on it now and it is a great combination!! I also like your Red chainring on your force crank .


Thanks! The post setup combined with the saddle is likely contributing to the ride, but I don't mind it. I didn't build the bike for comfort and anticipated it having a rough ride. I will likely still ride it in several centuries this season - one being the Highlander double metric in the Fingerlakes region of NY. The Red chain rings were the only way I could run a 52/36 setup - I'm really liking the range it covers. In the flats I'm using a 12-23 and for climbing I wussed-out and got an 11-28 instead of an 11-26.


----------



## DRAwpt

Here are some frames I ordered for our Masters team through Flybike. Build to follow.


----------



## elviento

It's funny: your comments go beyond pure performance and function. They imply (actually probably more express than implication) that the Chinese manufacturers are morally objectionable for making these frames... 

BUT... YOU ... BOUGHT ONE OF THOSE CRAPPY BIKES. WITH YOUR MONEY. 

So I am a bit lost. Does it make a difference if the quality is similar to the Fuji? 

BTW, I ride a Prince Carbon and a C50 so I am not really biased. 



PlatyPius said:


> They ARE dramatically different. Each company has invested lots of time, effort, and $ into designing a bike that rides better in some way. Faster, more comfortable, whatever. They take these plans to one of the few builders in Taiwan or China. If they've picked China, odds are that the frame they've designed will show up on eBay with some slight modification for 1/3 the price of theirs. Fuji CCR is a good example.
> 
> I bought one of the Bottecchia frames off of eBay. ...
> 
> The Fuji CCR had a nice feel to it on the road. It absorbed some of the road shock, and gave a decent amount of feedback. The China crap rode like a piece of wood. It was completely dead. I sold it after putting 200 miles on it.
> 
> You really do get what you pay for.


----------



## Rob81

OT nice interview on Italian Cycling PRO magazine, Pinarello clearly says all their frames come from China (not a big new, just for the naysayers).


----------



## PLAYONIT

HeluvaSkier said:


> I took my first real ride on my 015-SPL tonight. The route was flat, so I'll reserve climbing judgment for when I can get into some hills.
> 
> My BB30 015-SPL is setup with 2010 SRAM Force and Reynolds Assault wheels. I did a quick 20 mile loop that is about as flat as it gets. My first impressions of the bike are really good. It seems very smooth (dampens out little road vibrations), but also extremely stiff (bumps can be a bit jarring). The bike accelerates like no bike I have ever ridden before, and handles turns extremely well. Overall I think it is a much better bike than my KTM Strada LC. Because my KTM is a bit softer I think it will be better suited to long rides, but either bike would be fun to ride a century on. The handling of the bike is superior to any bike I've been on (admittedly only a dozen bikes or so). I'm running a 120mm stem (usually run a 100) so the steering feel is different from what I'm used to, but it feels really solid in corners. For other eBay frames I have ridden the forks have been the weakest part of the package, but the front end of the 015 is stiff and stable. Saturday I had it up over 30mph in the flats here in my neighborhood and took some sweeping turns and it felt great. I can't wait to see how it climbs. I suspect it will be a very good climber due to how stiff it is. The ISP and carbon railed saddle make potholes very uncomfortable though...


Nice.... I have done 5 rides so far and your initial assessment is spot on. I did get a chance to hit a local hill Sunday and although I am grossly out of shape for hills right now it climbed like a beast. At a little over 200 at the moment it was stiff and extremely responsive and that was with my Neuvation Areo R's I can only imagine the difference once I get the 50mm carbons on there..... The only gripe I have is my stem length which is 100mm. I need to go to a longer stem as I feel to bunched up and am getting after ride back pain.... She's a looker great job!!!!!!


----------



## MarvinK

Rob81 said:


> OT nice interview on Italian Cycling PRO magazine, Pinarello clearly says all their frames come from China (not a big new, just for the naysayers).


I don't think anyone is saying China can't make nice bike frames. I think there are probably 2 main objections that people bring up in this forum:

1) You're typically buying from a basically 'unknown' source--like an ebay seller--and have relatively little to go on in terms or quality control, etc. There's not really anybody to stand behind the product, so there's not really much driving them to cut corners.

2) Most of these designs are blatant rip-offs of patented designs that would be illegal to sell in most countries, if someone was actually trying to stand behind the product.


----------



## OriginalFire

*FM015 or FM001*

Between the FM015 (49cm) and FM001 (50cm), which one would fit me better?
I'm 5'5" with an inseem of 29".

-Thanks


----------



## popper252

So I finally got all the parts for my bike and here it is. I'm still waiting for the mail man to deliver a new stem and some different pedals but otherwise it's all done! 

I'm going for my maiden ride here in a little bit. I'll try to give some feedback once I put some miles on the beast. 

Also this was my first time building up a road bike. If there are any blatantly obvious mistakes that I need to be made aware of please let me know! Thanks! :thumbsup:


----------



## doggatas

Very nice popper.

I'm anxiously waiting for my frames to arrive, cant wait after seeing all these sexy looking bikes


----------



## popper252

Thanks bud! 

How do you think a white stem would match on there? 

I was thinking light weight like the Ritchey WCS or something. 










Anyone with some photoshop skills want to help me out


----------



## mrob239

Just curious, but can anyone who has the frame take some pictures of the bottom bracket area? I've looked on the websites but all of the pictures were at an angle.


----------



## willhs

MarvinK can't make a post in this thread without saying ripoff. 

These frames would not be illegal -- there are a certain number of "differences" a frame needs to have (I think it's 7?) to be considered "different." From a legal standpoint, I'm pretty sure these frames fit, or the bike industry would have nuked these sellers immediately (read: Speedplay vs. Bebop, though Bebop correctly won the court case in the end). Also, note that bike frames between different manufacturers truly aren't revolutionary. It's a ****ing bike frame, there's only so much you can do with that geometry.

Also, if you think your Trek warranty would do much to help you when your frame breaks, you are dead wrong. They will offer you a "discounted" new frame that's more expensive than the "ripoff" frames. And, if these frames were really so dangerous, a lot of people would have noticed by now, myself included.


----------



## Sk1pp3r

I got my frame today!!! Wow, talk about fast shipping from China. Sat-Tues, 3 days incredible. The frame is really really nice, I could only find two tiny imperfections and they are small, I am nitpicking as this quality was much higher than I expected for this price. I'm not saying anything about how it rides as I have yet to ride it, but it as least looks great. No problems with putting it together so far, wheels dropped right in the drop-outs no filing needed, and tires are dead center in both front and back. I still need to cut the seat tube and fork, but that is a job for tomorrow. AAhhh want to ride soo bad. Pics coming soon!


----------



## popper252

mrob239 said:


> Just curious, but can anyone who has the frame take some pictures of the bottom bracket area? I've looked on the websites but all of the pictures were at an angle.


What specifically would you like to see? I've thrown a few pics up on some earlier pages with pics of the bottom bracket area and there's a shot in my pics above. 
Just let me know and I'll see if I can accommodate you.


----------



## MarvinK

popper: that's a sweet looking bike. Some real road pedals would be the right finishing touch. What kind of seat is that? I'm guessing you have some amazing shorts... or short rides!


----------



## popper252

Ha yeah I got some super light Xpedo Ti road pedals. Only 164 grams for the pair  
I can't wait to get those! 

The seat is a Tioga Spyder Twin Tail. It's actually a lot more comfortable than you'd think. The shell flexes and absorbs a lot of impact to smooth out the ride. I actually just got back from a 35 mile ride and my butt is happy. I'll just need to adjust the angle of the saddle a bit but otherwise it's comfy. 

I actually have the original Spyder design on my MTB


----------



## Sk1pp3r

Popper252 great bike! I will post tomorrow with final build pics. Popper my tires have red in them too, but I swear I didn't copy you, my last frame was red so they matched, but I do like the look of red accents. Will also unveil my custom ultegra painted levers, well nothing exciting, just black, but they kinda look like the new carbon ones. Soon I'll have money for force stuff.


----------



## popper252

It's a proven fact that the color red makes your bike 6% faster 47% of the time. 

Can't wait to see more pictures thrown up here! The more the better.


----------



## Sk1pp3r

I knew I should have gotten that red seat!


----------



## Grabeef

Nice job, Popper.
Bit more conservative (read lack of imagination) with my bike. All black and all Ultegra.
Now I've done a few more miles and got used to the position and gearing all I can say is that this is a fun ride. Great acceleration, climbs nicely. One thing that I was not expecting is how smooth the ride is. It just seems to soak up all the lumps and bumps, no jarring at all. Much, much better than my old mtb.


----------



## duboisken

Does anybody knows where I can get some nice chinees carbon clincher wheelset with alloy braking surface? I found 1 set on http://wishbonetw.com/ProdDetail.aspx?id=56 but the weight is about 2000g! The set I have on my bike is only +-1600g (Campagnolo Zonda)

Thx for any reaction! 

Marc


----------



## raymonda

Nice, real nice. And +1 for the build. One bit of advice is to start your tape job running inwards instead of out. By doing so you will end up with the wrap coming towards you on top. This will prevent the tape from loosening up during the ride, since we tend to pull towards us rather than away.


----------



## lawrencemonsters

Ok, I just recieved the frame and the box was damaged. I think that some parts fell out during shipping. I am missing the headset, seatpost clamp and had some little empty bags. I quess from what was missing it was the stuff that fell out. Jenny does not really want to help with this. Does anyone know what would be a good headset to get. I have looked at the FSA that would fit a ridley damocles. Please help. I need to get the bike done to get my wife out with me. Thank You.
The frame is the 015. sweet looking and very light 49cm


----------



## lawrencemonsters

what headset did you use?


----------



## Ropes4u

popper252 said:


>


Build me one!


----------



## basman1

Popper, First of all your bike looks great. What brand of bar is that? Also from Hong-Fu?


----------



## Sk1pp3r

Finished it tonight! I went to take pics but the camera is dead. Cutting the stem and seatpost took some time, or should I say planning where to cut. I didn't want to go too far, but it is done now, can't wait to ride!!! 

On a side note, it was kinda funny. I was at the local bike shop getting some new brake cable housing and eventually in the conversation he asked what bike I had. I was like, well actually it's a carbon china frame, and then proceeded telling him I was in college and couldn't afford much right now. I brought the bike by later that day and he actually liked it. He did mention to keep an eye on the rear carbon dropouts where the seat stays meet just above the quick-release. He had a frame break there, but it was actually a cannondale six. He seemed to like the frame and said it looked good.


----------



## popper252

The bar is the one on the hongfu site. Unfortunately it looks like the site is down at the moment otherwise I'd shoot you a link. But anyways, they have like two bars on there so it shouldn't be too hard to find  
I like the extra wide area for a comfortable place to put my hands when I feel like cruising at a more relaxed pace. I didn't get a chance to weigh them unfortunately so I'm not sure how accurate the claimed one is.

So far I've gotten one nice 35 mile ride in on the bike. Coming from a mtn bike it's amazing how little effort is required to get this thing up to speed! You'll be cruising at 20 and not even feel like you're exerting yourself. Pretty cool feeling actually.
The ride is buttery smooth. No chitter chatter at all on the pavement. The frame seems to just absorb everything with no complaints. 
As I'm still getting used to the geometry I didn't get a chance to really throw the hammer down unfortunately but that will come eventually. 
So far I'm extremely pleased with the frame and everything about the bike. Really the only thing I wouldn't recommend is the seat post. Not too excited with the clamp. It's just too difficult to adjust the angle on it. 
I'll be sure to periodically update once I have more time on the bike.


----------



## PLAYONIT

*FM-015 non BB30 bottom bracket spacer question...*

Anyone build the FM-015 with external bearing BB use a spacer on the drive side bearing cup??? I have some pesky shift issues and was wondering if my alignment is off because I did not use the spacer???


----------



## chocy

PLAYONIT

the spacer is NOT for road bikes. they are for BMX, Mountain Bike of sort. It is in the manual. I did not have any issue with the standard english tread BB. what kind of issue are you having?


----------



## popper252

Yup I have spacers on the MTB but didn't use them on the roadie.


----------



## mjdwyer23

What are the shift issues?

You should not need the spacers unless your BB is out of spec. Sram cranks? I had to re-torque my Rival cranks several times to get them to seat fully.


----------



## iSuffer

*Popper252...*

Not sure about the white stem, might be a bit of overkill. I think aestetically your bike has nice balance (hopefully physically as well).

Thanks for all the pix and feedback, its helpful for those of us on the fence.

Where did you source your gruppo?


----------



## 151

I am considering one of these for my wife. She is small though, about 5'2. I checked out the 44 frames and they all seem to have a 531mm top tube. Thats pretty long for a 44 isn't it?

Any advice?


----------



## raymonda

151 said:


> I am considering one of these for my wife. She is small though, about 5'2. I checked out the 44 frames and they all seem to have a 531mm top tube. Thats pretty long for a 44 isn't it?
> 
> Any advice?


 Sloping TT, so that is around a 51-52 CM traditional frame.


----------



## Sk1pp3r

I haven't had any shift issues and didn't use any spacers. Sorry that you're havin trouble. Is is not shifting, jumping gears, or chain rub, what kind of issue?


----------



## ganginwood

i've been following this thread for the last few days. everytime i click on a hong fu link it is not working. is there an updated link that i can go to?


----------



## makntracks

www.e-hongfu-bikes.com
thats the site you want


----------



## PLAYONIT

ganginwood said:


> i've been following this thread for the last few days. everytime i click on a hong fu link it is not working. is there an updated link that i can go to?


try this......

http://www.e-hongfu-bikes.com/


----------



## HeluvaSkier

PLAYONIT said:


> Anyone build the FM-015 with external bearing BB use a spacer on the drive side bearing cup??? I have some pesky shift issues and was wondering if my alignment is off because I did not use the spacer???


Do you want me to take a look at it? I'll have to meet up with you at some point because I have two derailleur hangers coming for you. :thumbsup:


----------



## popper252

iSuffer said:


> Not sure about the white stem, might be a bit of overkill. I think aestetically your bike has nice balance (hopefully physically as well).
> 
> Thanks for all the pix and feedback, its helpful for those of us on the fence.
> 
> Where did you source your gruppo?


Thanks for the opinion! I'm still juggling with the idea so we'll see what I decide eventually. 

I got my group off of ebay for 850ish including shipping. That includes everything in the kit including the cranks, cassette, chain, etc... All 2010 stuff too!


----------



## PLAYONIT

HeluvaSkier said:


> Do you want me to take a look at it? I'll have to meet up with you at some point because I have two derailleur hangers coming for you. :thumbsup:


That would be great...I am going to work on it Saturday... since it doesn't appear the weather is going to be conducive to a ride... I want to figure it out myself without getting in to the habit of running to the LBS every time.... I just need to get patience and all will be good... 

I see your doing the Highlander... I thought it was early summer but found out it is Sept. I might be able to log enough training miles between now and then to ride the easier of the 2 centuries..... I just pre-bought the new Polar CS500
http://www.polarusa.com/us-en/products/maximize_performance/cycling/CS500 
that's being released at the end of the month.. and I will be able to design a training plan to build up to the miles needed for the ride......


----------



## MarvinK

Why the polar? The Garmin Edge 500 is ANT+ compatible and available now... and has much better software than Polar.


----------



## HeluvaSkier

PLAYONIT said:


> That would be great...I am going to work on it Saturday... since it doesn't appear the weather is going to be conducive to a ride... I want to figure it out myself without getting in to the habit of running to the LBS every time.... I just need to get patience and all will be good...
> 
> I see your doing the Highlander... I thought it was early summer but found out it is Sept. I might be able to log enough training miles between now and then to ride the easier of the 2 centuries..... I just pre-bought the new Polar CS500
> http://www.polarusa.com/us-en/products/maximize_performance/cycling/CS500
> that's being released at the end of the month.. and I will be able to design a training plan to build up to the miles needed for the ride......


Let me know if you need help with the Red FD & Crank settings. The FD of newer SRAM road groups are more difficult to set up than first-gen IMO. The zero-loss seems to make them more sensitive. 

I hope you can do the Highlander. A group of us get a condo at Bristol so we can ride to the ride morning-of. We had a blast last year - lots of wine when the ride is over. Nice new computer. It looks very WW. I just got a Garmin 705 - love it so far - accept the weight. It is a brick.


----------



## MarvinK

I thought the old ones were easier to set up because the trim was on the inner ring.


----------



## HeluvaSkier

MarvinK said:


> I thought the old ones were easier to set up because the trim was on the inner ring.


Yup. I actually preferred the small-ring trim - especially on a standard-size crank. Both would be splendid. The short throw that zero-loss gives would easily allow for trim on both rings. I'm not sure why they didn't go with both. Oh-well.


----------



## PLAYONIT

MarvinK said:


> Why the polar? The Garmin Edge 500 is ANT+ compatible and available now... and has much better software than Polar.


I really like shape and the toggle feature (ease of on bike use) more than anything. Plus I am already familiar with polar pro trainer software...


----------



## Bridgey

I just bought a CG1 Pedal Force frame ($790), complete with 2010 SRAM Force (Red levers). The frame is sub 1kg. Overall the bike will 7kg on the dot (56cm frame). I kept my own wheels (American Classic Victory 1650gms, saddle (San Marco 350gms - heavy I know) and pedals (Keywin 200grms). So to keep it at 7kgs I thought was pretty good for some of my heavier components. Thinking about buying one of those carbon saddles which weight about 100grms, just not sure how comfy it will be. 

I did a search of other name brands using the CG1 frame and found RITTE VAN VLAANDEREN http://www.ritteracing.com/ritte-bicycles/. They are selling the frame for $1650. Don't mind the paint job and their 3yr crash warranty. I also came across Raptor Bikes (or Predator Custom Bikes) from Texas. 

Their top of the line series 7 http://www.predatorbicycles.com/series_7 seems to me to also be identical to the Pedal Force CG1 http://pedalforce.com/online/product...ducts_id=13613 frame (but almost $2000 more expensive).

Anyone know anymore?

I am impressed with the quality of the frame and it is as light as advertised. Can't wait to get it build up next weekend. At about 98kg's though I want to lose another 5kgs before I ride. I asked Pedal Force they said all frames have a 100kg rider limit. Tested at 300kg though.


----------



## ganginwood

mephist0r said:


> Shipped out on the 17th from China, arrived Today, (Jan 22nd) so about 5 days shipping time to Los Angeles.


mephistor,
what kuota frame is that molded from and is that a bb30 bottom bracket?


----------



## HeluvaSkier

Bridgey said:


> I just bought a CG1 Pedal Force frame ($790), complete with 2010 SRAM Force (Red levers). The frame is sub 1kg. Overall the bike will 7kg on the dot (56cm frame). I kept my own wheels (American Classic Victory 1650gms, saddle (San Marco 350gms - heavy I know) and pedals (Keywin 200grms). So to keep it at 7kgs I thought was pretty good for some of my heavier components.


I was talking about this the other day with someone. The fact that I could build very close to a 15lb bike with a second tier group set and no WW parts for well under $3000 is something that couldn't be done a few years ago. It's also nice to be on a frame that won't cost me $4000 if I happen to crash and break it.


----------



## mjdwyer23

That's why I sold my S-Works Tarmac -- if I drop the RS2 in a crit, I can rebuild without too much pain. I built mine up with Rival and Neuvation wheels with non-WW aluminum stem and bars, it is 15.5 lbs.



HeluvaSkier said:


> I was talking about this the other day with someone. The fact that I could build very close to a 15lb bike with a second tier group set and no WW parts for well under $3000 is something that couldn't be done a few years ago. It's also nice to be on a frame that won't cost me $4000 if I happen to crash and break it.


----------



## Sk1pp3r

call me stupid what is WW


----------



## mjdwyer23

"weight weenie"


----------



## Sk1pp3r

now I feel really stupid because when I used to mountain bike I spent alot of time on that website.


----------



## 88 rex

Has anyone tried using the carbon rims from these companies? How about the carbon CX frames with disc mounts?

Lots of nice bikes in this thread!


----------



## PLAYONIT

88 rex said:


> Has anyone tried using the carbon rims from these companies? How about the carbon CX frames with disc mounts?
> 
> Lots of nice bikes in this thread!


I bought some 50mm from Hongfu but have not built them up yet ...they appear to be very good but the build and ride will tell... If you go back to page 1-2 of this thread you can see vaetuning's build. I believe those are from one of the companies you speak.....


----------



## ansetou

*48 cm frame*

I finally received the frame and fork for my wife's x-small bike 48 seat tube 510 mm H top tube.

sram force group w/ red 165 mm crankset
blackset 1421 gram wheelset from bww

it should come out to be under 14.5 lbs. if all manufactures weight numbers are close to real.


----------



## DRAwpt

Do you have a clear picture of how the rear (bottom?) brake is set up, specifically the housing? Did u figure out some kind of cable stop?


----------



## ms6073

If you are asking about the Dengfu FM018 Time Trial Frame then yes and no. No I did not fab a cable stop but I did get the rear brake to work somewhat reasonably but still depended on a combination of the front/rear brakes. Not being satisified with that solution, opted to purchase a set of Sinkins Designs Egg Brakes and swapped the stock Kool Stop pads with Zipp Tangente cork pads which from my short test ride after the installation, seem to work much better than the Tektro R725 or R726 brakes I had tried previously.


----------



## T K

Sk1pp3r said:


> now I feel really stupid because when I used to mountain bike I spent alot of time on that website.


Hate to make you feel more stupid, but alot is not a word. "A lot" two words.:blush2: 
Maybe nobody else will notice.


----------



## T K

That looks to be a nice build ansetou, keep us posted.


----------



## steveymcdubs

I'm planning on ordering a FM015 and had a few questions. Which fork goes with it? Is it the FK-002?

Also, it's 34.9mm clamp size and 31.6 seatpost right?

Lastly, does anyone have the geometry chart for a size 53cm?


----------



## ganginwood

can someone tell me which frames these are supposed to be?
in otherwords...the fm001-spl, is this the fuji

any other info on the other frames would be appreciated. i know the first page of this thread mentioned that the one frame is the kuota knock off. i was just wondering about the others.

thanks
kevin


----------



## ansetou

i'll post more pics when it's completed. since the season's already started and i still haven't done any graphics design for it, i'll first assemble it and let her ride a bit in a "naked" style. 

anyway, in terms of ordering, everything is good except they sent the wrong style of fork. i asked for the straight fork. but that's no biggie. the clear coating quality is good enough. i mean i'll really have to be very detail in order to see all the small imperfects. another issue i discovered was the seat tube seems to be a little tight inside such that I had a great difficulty inserting the seat post into it. with some force i eventually did but scratched the coating on my seatpost a lot. it no big deal as it's cosmetic and it's only the part that's going to be hidden.


----------



## PLAYONIT

steveymcdubs said:


> I'm planning on ordering a FM015 and had a few questions. Which fork goes with it? Is it the FK-002?
> 
> Also, it's 34.9mm clamp size and 31.6 seatpost right?
> 
> Lastly, does anyone have the geometry chart for a size 53cm?


The fork you need is the FK-007 ..... notice the 007 has the tapered fork tube that the FM015 frame needs because of the 1.125 to 1.500 tapered head tube..... I have the ISP so without a drawing can't comment on the seat post...


----------



## DRAwpt

So basically you are saying that a conventional rear brake will work better?


----------



## thiscarcrash1

I've been following this thread for a while as a non-member and now as a member, and i have a couple of simple questions.
1. I prefer the looks of the HF-FM001 frame in the UD finish, but i notice alot of people are choosing the HF-FM015. Is there a benefit or reasoning behind the choice?
2. I've also noticed alot of discussion about frame sizing. I'm 6' even and typically choose to ride a 56 or 57cm. I had assumed that i would choose the 56cm frame from HF as well, am i incorrect in this assumtion?

Thanks for the help!!


----------



## thiscarcrash1

I've been following this thread for a while as a non-member and now as a member, and i have a couple of simple questions.
1. I prefer the looks of the HF-FM001 frame in the UD finish, but i notice alot of people are choosing the HF-FM015. Is there a benefit or reasoning behind the choice?
2. I've also noticed alot of discussion about frame sizing. I'm 6' even and typically choose to ride a 56 or 57cm. I had assumed that i would choose the 56cm frame from HF as well, am i incorrect in this assumtion?

Thanks for the help!!


----------



## steveymcdubs

PLAYONIT said:


> The fork you need is the FK-007 ..... notice the 007 has the tapered fork tube that the FM015 frame needs because of the 1.125 to 1.500 tapered head tube..... I have the ISP so without a drawing can't comment on the seat post...


Thanks for the reply. Could anyone with a FM015 give a quick confirmation?

Also, still looking for the *53cm geometry chart*...why the hell don't they have one on their website?

And for anyone who's looking, here's the 55cm geo:

FM015
Size: 55
Seat Tube: 550
Top Tube: 547.8
Seat Angle: 73.5
Head Angle: 72.5
Head Tube: 150
Chain Stay: 406
Wheelbase: 981.3


----------



## bcmf

@ thiscarcrash; I have a 001 in 56cm and I am a hair under 5'11. I find it a great fit.very comfy and am still tweeking it. I found that I have a good few spacers on the headset so am just dropping down spacer by spacer at a time.


----------



## HeluvaSkier

I've logged some more miles on my 015-SPL and still really enjoy the ride. The frame is very stiff, but the more time I spend on it I'm surprised how little road noise is actually transmitted to the rider. I expected the generic frame to have sort-of a hollow feel and sound, but it is actually very smooth. What I love the most is that between 25 and 30mph the frame just comes to life. I actually took it on a short climb today and the stiffness pays off when climbing in and out of the saddle and is a noticeable difference from my KTM (which is a plenty stiff frame in it's own right). I think the difference that I'm experiencing is the difference between an older carbon frame and a newer carbon frame that admittedly has all the bells and whistles (tapered head tube, BB30, thin seat stays, oversize down tube and chain stays, etc). So, since this thread is useless without pics... here you go. 





































There are a few others available here. 

I'm not sure what a bike like this would spec for in a shop, but I have no doubt that I did pretty good for what I spent. As it stands there the bike is about 15.2lbs (confirmed by a Park scale - not just adding up manufacturer quoted weights). 

Later,

Greg


----------



## OriginalFire

thiscarcrash1 said:


> I've been following this thread for a while as a non-member and now as a member, and i have a couple of simple questions.
> 1. I prefer the looks of the HF-FM001 frame in the UD finish, but i notice alot of people are choosing the HF-FM015. Is there a benefit or reasoning behind the choice?
> 2. I've also noticed alot of discussion about frame sizing. I'm 6' even and typically choose to ride a 56 or 57cm. I had assumed that i would choose the 56cm frame from HF as well, am i incorrect in this assumtion?
> 
> Thanks for the help!!


1. I don't have any experience with either of them, but here are some comments:


HeluvaSkier said:


> I haven't been on the 015 riding it yet (no saddle yet because I'm waiting for a mast head). Standing on the frame and testing out the stiffness of the fork, the 015 is MUCH stiffer. I'll give a full ride report in a few weeks once I have the bike fully assembled and have a chance to test it out on a few different rides. I've built two 001's and now one 015 and the 015 just feels like the better frame - sort-of like if you were to compare an older Fuji Team or Scott CR-1 frame to a new Dogma or Prince just by handling the frames and noting the differences...





HeluvaSkier said:


> I own both an 001 (Kredo-like frame) and an 015. The 001 is my gf's bike and I have ridden it quite a lot. It is a great frame... I also am building an 015-SPL. IMO that frame simply looks to be the better frame from a construction standpoint. The fork on the 015 is also a MUCH better fork from what I can tell so far. I'd go with the 015 or SPL version. JMO.


----------



## robpar

HeluvaSkier said:


> I've logged some more miles on my 015-SPL and still really enjoy the ride. The frame is very stiff, but the more time I spend on it I'm surprised how little road noise is actually transmitted to the rider.....
> I'm not sure what a bike like this would spec for in a shop, but I have no doubt that I did pretty good for what I spent. As it stands there the bike is about 15.2lbs (confirmed by a Park scale - not just adding up manufacturer quoted weights).
> 
> Later,
> 
> Greg


 How did you set up your saddle support? it looks like you used a standard seat clamp with a short seat post inside the ISP?
When you say stiff frame; is it a harsh ride?


----------



## HeluvaSkier

robpar said:


> How did you set up your saddle support? it looks like you used a standard seat clamp with a short seat post inside the ISP?
> When you say stiff frame; is it a harsh ride?


For the ISP I took a Thomson Elite 32.4 post and cut it down to 7cm. It is held by a Specialized clamp. I was sick of trying to find a 37mm mast head, so I made my own solution - and it actually is about 140-150g, so still as light or lighter than a Ritchey Stubby. 

I don't think I'd describe the frame as harsh necessarily. It feels smoother than my KTM (few road vibrations by a long-shot), but when you hit a pothole you definitely feel it - but I have the bike set up pretty stiff. The ISP doesn't allow much forgiveness, Selle Italia carbon rails are known for being very stiff, and my stubby setup probably provides even less forgiveness. Combined with the stiff wheels and 116psi tire pressure I probably am set up for a rougher ride, but I still wouldn't hesitate to ride a century on the bike unless there were a lot of rough dirt roads or cobbles/brick roads... even then I'd probably consider it. It's not a Specialized Roubaix, but I consider that to be a good thing. 

I'm actually going to build a second one of these in a few days. The next one will be parts from a Trek 1500 that I have built up with Rival - but I'll be getting the standard 015 - no ISP - and using a 27.2mm carbon seat post with a shim (015 accepts a 31.6 post). I suspect it will offer a slightly more forgiving ride without the ISP.


----------



## Bridgey

Very nice bike. Other than the seat stays (thinner), it looks very much like the pedal force cg1. Will send picks when I get mine set up. Waiting on the components. Mine is 15.5lbs as I am using my heavy san marco 350gm seat. Can't wait.


----------



## tthome

i think the FM015 frame looks very similar to a Cannondale SuperSix. I have the Kuota Kredo ebay frame (001) but I'm debating on moving over to the FM015. I don't have any reason to move other than looks, tapered tube and trying out the BB30 tech. I can't talk myself into spending the money on a new BB30 crank (don't want to retrofit my R700 crank). Other than that the FM015 has all the latest and greatest new tech for most higher end frames for a good bit less coin.


----------



## Myrkur

Here's my new build. Came out quite nice, I think. The frame is 3K HF-FM001, drivetrain Sram Rival and the wheels are Mavic Aksium. Ride quality is excellent.










Originally I also bought seatpost, seatpost clamp, stem and handlebar from the same ebay seller. The stem was pretty heavy and ugly so I switched it to other bike. Also, it wasn't carbon but carbon wrapped aluminum, which is something I can't understand. Seatpost clamp was also surprisingly heavy, again CF wrapped aluminum. I know that 15 grams don't matter that much but I think it was just unnecessary heavy. CF seatpost was ok but the top part of it was pretty heavy and bulky so that went to other bike as well. CF handlebar was fine.

Ebay-seller screwed up my order so he sent me a carbon fiber saddle instead of seatpost. (he later sent me the seatpost but I had to pay full price). That saddle looked very cool and it was very light and surprisingly comfy. However, I had already decided my saddle (BBB Compdesign) so I'll sell the CF saddle.

The frame and fork were good, although they had some imperfections and other stuff not so good. Final weight of the bike was 7,7kg with pedals. Could be lower but lowering it doesn't seem worth the money, although I might upgrade the wheelset later. 

Building the bike was fun and I definitely learned a lot about bike mechanics. Although this is a "generic frame" this feels more special to me than my previous bike because of the fact that I built this from scratch and chose the components myself.


----------



## Dutch77

Bridgey said:


> Mine is 15.5lbs as I am using my heavy san marco 350gm seat. Can't wait.


Are you using the Regal?

They have a carbon fiber version nowadays, called the RegalE. Shaves off quite a bit of weight. Race edition would look pretty cool with a black bike too imho.


----------



## ms6073

DRAwpt said:


> So basically you are saying that a conventional rear brake will work better?


No, for the FM018 time trial frame that is not what I am saying. While you can try a conventional dual pivot brake, I think you will find as I did that the with the limited clearance, the face of the inner chain ring will more than likely make contact with a standard dual pivot brake (such as a Dura Ace 7900) caliper because the caliper is too wide. While I am not trying to shill for the Simkins Designs brake, but if you take a look at it you will notice that while it is a single pivot design, the caliper arms are 10-12mm narrower than a conventional dual pivot rear brake. Because of the narrower caliper width, the brake offers the same clearance and offers what I consider much improved rear braking compared to the Tektro R726 that came with the frameset and the R725 side pull brake that I also tried.


----------



## furry

I'm also hopefully (fingers crossed) getting ready to order one of these frames, im leaning towards either the fm015 or the fm001 (cheaper). I'm sure ill have many questions in the days to come


----------



## tthome

here are some pictures of my build fm001 (Kuota Clone). Not sure about what someone else said about the fork being better on the FM015. I've seen my fork and another Pinarello type fork available for this FM001 and have no problems with my fork. the bike is stiff and solid through the corners and climbing. I'm not a racer so I've never screamed down a hill at 40mph. I usually run 35mph tops. My butt pucker factor is usually around 9.5 at 35mph+. i have kids an a family to support and can't afford to get injured and can't afford to pay name brand either. I opted for the straight type fork not the wavey one. I for one am not made of money but like to find caviar food on a bologna budget.

More pictures of the complete build at picasa.

http://picasaweb.google.com/tthome/CustomLiveSTRONGBikeBuild#


----------



## mrwirey

tthome,
Nice build


----------



## furry

great looking bike!

question about the geometry, im 5 10.5' and usually ride a 56 cm. Are the fm015 and fm001 geometry similar enough that i can just approximate and order a 56 cm?


----------



## HeluvaSkier

furry said:


> great looking bike!
> 
> question about the geometry, im 5 10.5' and usually ride a 56 cm. Are the fm015 and fm001 geometry similar enough that i can just approximate and order a 56 cm?


No, they are pretty different. The 001 is more relaxed... think Specialized Roubaix versus Cervelo R3-SL.


----------



## Bridgey

Dutch77 said:


> Are you using the Regal?
> 
> They have a carbon fiber version nowadays, called the RegalE. Shaves off quite a bit of weight. Race edition would look pretty cool with a black bike too imho.


Actually I am using the San Marco Rolls. Great seat. But thanks for the tip, I may very well invest in one. 

On a side note though, have any of you guys tried those pure carbon saddles without padding? What are they like. Do they get slipperly in the wet?


----------



## Rob81

they do work well and not slippery in wet, unfortunately I broke one in a race crash, they are very thin and fragile.


----------



## Sk1pp3r

Here is my build, still waiting on front derailleur. Painted my scratched ultegra levers black.
<a href="https://www.flickr.com/photos/justinbethany/4538860780/" title="Bike pictures 010 by sk1ppur, on Flickr"><img src="https://farm3.static.flickr.com/2158/4538860780_91011a7ec9.jpg" width="500" height="375" alt="Bike pictures 010" /></a>
<a href="https://www.flickr.com/photos/justinbethany/4538587750/" title="Bike pictures 008 by sk1ppur, on Flickr"><img src="https://farm3.static.flickr.com/2729/4538587750_2df3d6c04e.jpg" width="500" height="375" alt="Bike pictures 008" /></a>
<a href="https://www.flickr.com/photos/justinbethany/4538611936/" title="Bike pictures 002 by sk1ppur, on Flickr"><img src="https://farm5.static.flickr.com/4047/4538611936_9b0201b1f1.jpg" width="500" height="375" alt="Bike pictures 002" /></a>
<a href="https://www.flickr.com/photos/justinbethany/4538587808/" title="Bike pictures 009 by sk1ppur, on Flickr"><img src="https://farm5.static.flickr.com/4022/4538587808_5bacc8bd4f.jpg" width="500" height="375" alt="Bike pictures 009" /></a>
<a href="https://www.flickr.com/photos/justinbethany/4537962685/" title="Bike pictures 013 by sk1ppur, on Flickr"><img src="https://farm5.static.flickr.com/4046/4537962685_74403032e4.jpg" width="500" height="375" alt="Bike pictures 013" /></a>
<a href="https://www.flickr.com/photos/justinbethany/4538585230/" title="Bike pictures 004 by sk1ppur, on Flickr"><img src="https://farm5.static.flickr.com/4034/4538585230_c86ff785b4.jpg" width="500" height="375" alt="Bike pictures 004" /></a>


----------



## Bridgey

Nice setup. How far is your steam below your seat. Looks huge. I struggle with anything over 8cm's. Perhaps it is my gut that is in the way. What is the overall bike weight?


----------



## thiscarcrash1

HeluvaSkier said:


> No, they are pretty different. The 001 is more relaxed... think Specialized Roubaix versus Cervelo R3-SL.


thats actually a helpful comparison. Thanks!


----------



## mrwirey

Sk1pp3r,
I ordered the same frame (56cm) in unidirectional carbon with the regular vice integrated seatpost. Could you tell me what the current distance is in inches from the tip of your saddle to the center of your bars and the distance in inches from the center of your crank to the top of your saddle in line with the seat mast? Also the length of your stem in mm? It appears to be 110mm or 120mm. That will give me an idea of what I can expect when my frame comes in. Thank you in advance, Tim


----------



## PLAYONIT

Sk1pp3r said:


> Here is my build, still waiting on front derailleur. Painted my scratched ultegra levers black.
> <a href="https://www.flickr.com/photos/justinbethany/4538860780/" title="Bike pictures 010 by sk1ppur, on Flickr"><img src="https://farm3.static.flickr.com/2158/4538860780_91011a7ec9.jpg" width="500" height="375" alt="Bike pictures 010" /></a>
> <a href="https://www.flickr.com/photos/justinbethany/4538587750/" title="Bike pictures 008 by sk1ppur, on Flickr"><img src="https://farm3.static.flickr.com/2729/4538587750_2df3d6c04e.jpg" width="500" height="375" alt="Bike pictures 008" /></a>
> <a href="https://www.flickr.com/photos/justinbethany/4538611936/" title="Bike pictures 002 by sk1ppur, on Flickr"><img src="https://farm5.static.flickr.com/4047/4538611936_9b0201b1f1.jpg" width="500" height="375" alt="Bike pictures 002" /></a>
> <a href="https://www.flickr.com/photos/justinbethany/4538587808/" title="Bike pictures 009 by sk1ppur, on Flickr"><img src="https://farm5.static.flickr.com/4022/4538587808_5bacc8bd4f.jpg" width="500" height="375" alt="Bike pictures 009" /></a>
> <a href="https://www.flickr.com/photos/justinbethany/4537962685/" title="Bike pictures 013 by sk1ppur, on Flickr"><img src="https://farm5.static.flickr.com/4046/4537962685_74403032e4.jpg" width="500" height="375" alt="Bike pictures 013" /></a>
> <a href="https://www.flickr.com/photos/justinbethany/4538585230/" title="Bike pictures 004 by sk1ppur, on Flickr"><img src="https://farm5.static.flickr.com/4034/4538585230_c86ff785b4.jpg" width="500" height="375" alt="Bike pictures 004" /></a>


Looking great...... is that the seat mast that came with the frame?? if it is... they have changed from the original.....


----------



## Sk1pp3r

I don't think it is more than a fist sitting on top of my handlebars. I think the angle of the shot makes it look higher. I am pretty skinny 140lb and 5'10" and flexible so it doesn't bother me . . . yet.


----------



## Sk1pp3r

PLAYONIT said:


> Looking great...... is that the seat mast that came with the frame?? if it is... they have changed from the original.....


Yep it's the original one. It did seem a little heavy but not too many options out there right now from what it seems like. Overall the bike feels extremely light. Standing on the bathroom scale puts it at a hair under 17lb, but I don't have anything official.


----------



## Bridgey

Rob81 said:


> they do work well and not slippery in wet, unfortunately I broke one in a race crash, they are very thin and fragile.


Being thin and fragile are pure carbon seats (115gms) likely to break under the load of a 95kg person? I would love one of them as it would look so nice on my new PF CG1, plus it would bring the weight down to about 6.8kg's.


----------



## squarepedaller

steveymcdubs said:


> Also, still looking for the *53cm geometry chart*...why the hell don't they have one on their website?


Hey Everyone,

First post, hope its a good one, especially for Stevey 

Just email Jenny at e-Hong-Fu ( [email protected]) and ask for the CAD JPG. She will supply. And here's what she sent me - FM015, 53cm.

My frame should be here in a day or so. Can't wait.


----------



## raymonda

Bridgey said:


> Being thin and fragile are pure carbon seats (115gms) likely to break under the load of a 95kg person? I would love one of them as it would look so nice on my new PF CG1, plus it would bring the weight down to about 6.8kg's.


I've never heard that they were fragile. I have a carbon Aspide and it is tougher than any other saddle I own, and it'll last a life time.


----------



## Sk1pp3r

I'm away from home right now but when I get back I'll post the measurements. By the way it was the 550 size frame. they didn't have a 56 or 560 so I went smaller. I do feel a little more cramped compared to my last 56 scattante frame but when I look down the front hub is right under my handlbars where is it supposed to be. I think that is what they say for fitting.


----------



## campLo

Im thinking about ordering up a FM015-SPL + FK-007 + handle bars + headset. Currently I have a 09 Specialized Allez that I will be transferring the group from (105s). Would the bb work with the fm015? Anything I maybe overlooking? Nothing is in stock at e-hongfu so this gives me time to read up.

Also how long does shipping take?


----------



## Sk1pp3r

As long as it is english thread it should work okay. Maybe some extra headset spacers just because cutting the fork is a little scary it would be nice to have some wiggle room by having some extra spacers until you figure out exactly where you want to have the stem. Also you might need new cable housing, maybe not, I didn't need to but just made the leap to sram so I got new cables anyway. Can't wait for it to get here.


----------



## ogdnut

Ordered the same UD frame as mrwirey and interested in what Sk1pp3r comes up with for measurements. Wondering the same on sizing to see what size stem I should get. Probably will wait until I have it and most other components on it before getting the stem though. The last "sizable" part to make sure the fit is good. Ordered 14 days ago...the 70 day quote will be a LONG time to wait.


----------



## Sk1pp3r

I'll get measurements tonight guys. Man 70 days is incredible. I got mine in three days, yes three days from day of payment! I couldn't believe it. I'm in Ohio and when I went to check the tracking number it said it was out for delivery! Anyway, I think I got lucky because I heard they wait to get enough orders to ship out and I got mine in just in time.


----------



## Grabeef

campLo said:


> Im thinking about ordering up a FM015-SPL + FK-007 + handle bars + headset. Currently I have a 09 Specialized Allez that I will be transferring the group from (105s). Would the bb work with the fm015? Anything I maybe overlooking? Nothing is in stock at e-hongfu so this gives me time to read up.
> 
> Also how long does shipping take?


Maybe stating the obvious, but specify which BB when you order as you have a choice.
When I first enquired I was given a lead time of around 40 days. When I said I wanted English thread and 3k finish I was emailed back saying that it would be posted as soon as I paid.Two days later it was sitting in customs. Four days later customs cleared it. In fact it came from China quicker than it did the last 40 miles to my house.


----------



## Frith

Are there any of these off-brand frames made in a more comfort oriented geometry? 

Just to be clear, by comfort I mean a slightly taller head tube ala the roubaix's of this world, not looking for a carbon fiber beach cruiser


----------



## Sk1pp3r

Ok here are the measurements I got I gestimated centers of tubes for measuring because this frame is shaped so nicely.
Top tube: 53.5 from center of steerer tube to center of seat tube.
CBB to CTT: 50 from center of bottom bracket to center of top tube
CBB to TOS: 78 center of bottom bracket to top of saddle
Saddle to handlebars: 53 (I haven't adjusted my saddle forward of back yet for center of spindle measurement)
and my stem is 110mm 5 degree.

as a side note on my scattante 56cm the top tube was 55 and the CCB to CTT was 50. I believe my CBB to TOS should have been the same but didn't get that measurement.


----------



## mrwirey

Sk1pp3r,
Thank you for posting the measurements. That was very helpful. I just checked and I ordered the 58cm frame vice a 56cm. Based on the dimensions you provided I think that the 58cm should fit me fine. Unfortunately I am an in between sizes when it comes to these frames. All of my other bikes are either 55cm, 56cm, or 58cm. I typically run a CBB to TOS of 30.5" (just about where yours is at) and a saddle to handlebars of 22' to 22.5" depending on the drop. I will probably have to run a 100mm stem, but I should be able to get the fit just about right. Thanks again for posting, Tim


----------



## chocy

Sk1pp3r, 

your measurement sounds like 53 not 55. 
I have 53 and it has 529mm Eff. top tube.

55 has 545 eff. top tube. 

I have the CAD drawing for those two. you can also ask jenny for any frames they have.


----------



## Sk1pp3r

well crap. I suppose I do have a 53. It was hard to tell otherwise with an ISP. It did feel a little cramped but not too bad, more like an aggressive style position.


----------



## chocy

well, picture of your bike looks bigger than mine 

(I have old pictures of my bike here
https://farm3.static.flickr.com/2687/4028448814_de7fb89348_o.jpg
https://farm4.static.flickr.com/3508/4028453712_a4fc85a399_o.jpg)

I really gotta get new pictures of my bike with my assault wheelset...

I may be that the measurement differences are small enough to be within the margin of error but in fact yours might be 55. I am 5'9 and I think I could have gone 55 but as you said 53 with 120 stem gives me a bit more aggressive position. It takes a little getting used to but it works for me...


----------



## Sk1pp3r

Chocy your frame actually looks different than mine. The top tube on mine is more round without that edge and it is flat on the seat tube, the edge doesn't run through the seat tube to the seatstays if you know what I mean. The standover height is 77mm running a vertical line from the ground to the top of the TT in line with the bottom bracket. I still need to adjust my saddle height a little, it's a little high, then forward and backward. I suppose the size doesn't matter too much, I'll have to get used to it either way.


----------



## lawrencemonsters

Great looking bike. I need to get some pics up of the one I just finished. Again very good looking bike.


----------



## robpar

chocy said:


> well, picture of your bike looks bigger than mine
> 
> (I have old pictures of my bike here
> https://farm3.static.flickr.com/2687/4028448814_de7fb89348_o.jpg
> https://farm4.static.flickr.com/3508/4028453712_a4fc85a399_o.jpg)
> 
> I really gotta get new pictures of my bike with my assault wheelset...
> 
> I may be that the measurement differences are small enough to be within the margin of error but in fact yours might be 55. I am 5'9 and I think I could have gone 55 but as you said 53 with 120 stem gives me a bit more aggressive position. It takes a little getting used to but it works for me...


Nice bike. I'm debating whether to go for the FM015- 55 cm or 58 cm. I'm 5'-9 1/4" ; 34 1/4" inseam; 760 mm BB to saddle (175 mm cranks). I currently ride a 565 mm TT with a 170 mm headtube and 90 mm stem (20 degree rise). I like the bars high, almost level with saddle or not more than 2 cm drop... My ideal would be a 555 TT with a 165-170 HT but they are VERY hard to find.
So... the 58 cm has a TT of 568 (170 HT), the 55 cm has 548 TT but only a 150 HT.
I'm afraid the 55 will set the bars too low, but the 58 puts me even on longer TT that what I ride... should I go for the 58?

Any suggestions on what size to go for? (no racing, just fast long rides with lots of hills)
Thanks!


----------



## chocy

Sk1pp3r

Actually it is the same frame 015 SPL. I have 13K weave finish.
I used flash to accentuate that subtle edge.
(I am into photography also)

I just measured the stand-over height and yes it is 77cm or it might be 76.80cm..

robpar,

It seems like you have relatively short torso. But do you have long arms? All these should effect your sizing.

I am 5'9" with 31.5" inseam. I have 53cm frame with 529 eff. Top tube and running 120mm stem (I can also use 130 but I like the way bike handles with 120 better). which means I could have gone with 55cm frame (545 TT) with 110mm stem. 

So for you should could go either. If you get 55, you can use a little bit of spacer and longer stem (110 or 120mm) (also helps your bar position to be higher) or 58 with shorter stem (but shorter stem makes handling more twitchy)
I like to go with smaller frame than bigger one because you can always adjust your position on smaller frame with spacers etc. but you cannot go smaller with a big frame. (But that's just me)

It is a hard decision. I lost sleep over 53 and 55 for me and in the end I got 53 because it was in stock (no wait time) and I am generally happy with it but sometimes I wish I got 55...

Good luck to you..


----------



## Rob81

Bridgey said:


> Being thin and fragile are pure carbon seats (115gms) likely to break under the load of a 95kg person? I would love one of them as it would look so nice on my new PF CG1, plus it would bring the weight down to about 6.8kg's.


I mean they are fragile under crash load, I'm 66 kg so I cannot say if they flex under 95 kg  
And yes I'va an Aspide carbon saddle too and the Chinese one is(was) better finished (rail intersections are much better in the Chinese one) but slightly thinner in material tickness.
101g the Chinese, ~120g the Aspide


----------



## elviento

You have a 55. No worries. These frames are short in the tt measurements to begin with and seattube is fairly steep. Also seattube measurement, you should not go to the center of that ridge, coz the ridge is part of a curve downward. So yours should have a 50.6cm c-c measurement. 



Sk1pp3r said:


> well crap. I suppose I do have a 53. It was hard to tell otherwise with an ISP. It did feel a little cramped but not too bad, more like an aggressive style position.


----------



## Sk1pp3r

Hmm, don't know either way now which size I got.
@elviento: I measured to what I thought was the center by estimating not following the curve. Thanks for the reasurance on TT sizing. I like the fit and just need to get out and ride it more. I have my ultegra stuff on right now but ordered all new Sram Force stuff. Can't wait!


----------



## rruff

Nobody ordered this frame yet? Best looking one IMO... and light too. 

http://dgxtkj.en.alibaba.com/produc...bon_frame_set_carbon_road_frame_and_fork.html


----------



## karlo

I contacted Tony about the FM28 and he gave me a price of $400 for Frame, Fork and Seatpost


----------



## campLo

are you guys just emailing them directly? Im curious to contact e-hongfu to see what they have in stock. What weaves are available for the FM015-SPL and is the only difference with the 015 and 015spl the integrated seat tube?


----------



## tthome

karlo said:


> I contacted Tony about the FM28 and he gave me a price of $400 for Frame, Fork and Seatpost


Karlo, did that $400 price for the FM28 include shipping as well? I'd want the compatible headset as well thrown in. I emailed them via alibaba and have not heard back. If that's the case I'm in for a second carbon "chinese" frame.


----------



## karlo

tthome said:


> Karlo, did that $400 price for the FM28 include shipping as well? I'd want the compatible headset as well thrown in. I emailed them via alibaba and have not heard back. If that's the case I'm in for a second carbon "chinese" frame.


I have not ordered anything yet but might also go with this one, the quote did not include shipping. This is his email where you can reach him just remember the time difference.

[email protected]


----------



## tthome

karlo said:


> This is his email where you can reach him just remember the time difference.
> 
> [email protected]


Emailing now, we'll see how this works out. Just what I need another project. I just finished my LiveSTRONG dedication bike at the end of last season now I find this frame. Why, WHY WHY? I guess it's like a golfer looking for the perfect driver. Too bad bikes cost about 3x what a decent driver costs. Cycling to me is my GOLF to others.


----------



## karlo

tthome said:


> Emailing now, we'll see how this works out. Just what I need another project. I just finished my LiveSTRONG dedication bike at the end of last season now I find this frame. Why, WHY WHY? I guess it's like a golfer looking for the perfect driver. Too bad bikes cost about 3x what a decent driver costs. Cycling to me is my GOLF to others.



yeah, but you can buy 10 of these frames instead of one brand name one so keep that in mind.


----------



## tarzan13

Does anyone have a FM004 or FM006 frame? How does it compare to the FM015 one? I'm not really interested in looks but durability as want to use the frame for a commuter bike.

Thanks


----------



## PLAYONIT

campLo said:


> are you guys just emailing them directly? Im curious to contact e-hongfu to see what they have in stock. What weaves are available for the FM015-SPL and is the only difference with the 015 and 015spl the integrated seat tube?



The site tells you what is in stock. They have 3k , 12k and UD. the 3K and UD are usually special order adding wait time to your order. The difference you note about 015 and 015spl is correct...


----------



## 88 rex

karlo said:


> I contacted Tony about the FM28 and he gave me a price of $400 for Frame, Fork and Seatpost



Is that BB30?


----------



## yurl

I'm considering the FM015 in 3K and UD. has anyone ordered a FM015 in UD?
could you kindly upload some photos


----------



## PLAYONIT

yurl said:


> I'm considering the FM015 in 3K and UD. has anyone ordered a FM015 in UD?
> could you kindly upload some photos


Look above in this thread (PG.22) at HeluvaSkier's Bike pics it's an 015 with UD....


----------



## BlackDoggystyle

rruff said:


> Nobody ordered this frame yet? Best looking one IMO... and light too.
> 
> http://dgxtkj.en.alibaba.com/produc...bon_frame_set_carbon_road_frame_and_fork.html


I ordered this one a wek ago. Price is 390USD + 80USD shipping. He added a headset for 14USD and paying thru paypal had an additional cost of 18usd.

Ordered minn 3K finish... 

You pay 50% when ordering and he contacts you when the bike is ready to ship...then you pay the other half and the frame gets shipped.


----------



## robpar

chocy said:


> Sk1pp3r
> 
> Actually it is the same frame 015 SPL. I have 13K weave finish.
> I used flash to accentuate that subtle edge.
> (I am into photography also)
> 
> I just measured the stand-over height and yes it is 77cm or it might be 76.80cm..
> 
> robpar,
> 
> It seems like you have relatively short torso. But do you have long arms? All these should effect your sizing.
> 
> I am 5'9" with 31.5" inseam. I have 53cm frame with 529 eff. Top tube and running 120mm stem (I can also use 130 but I like the way bike handles with 120 better). which means I could have gone with 55cm frame (545 TT) with 110mm stem.
> 
> So for you should could go either. If you get 55, you can use a little bit of spacer and longer stem (110 or 120mm) (also helps your bar position to be higher) or 58 with shorter stem (but shorter stem makes handling more twitchy)
> I like to go with smaller frame than bigger one because you can always adjust your position on smaller frame with spacers etc. but you cannot go smaller with a big frame. (But that's just me)
> 
> It is a hard decision. I lost sleep over 53 and 55 for me and in the end I got 53 because it was in stock (no wait time) and I am generally happy with it but sometimes I wish I got 55...
> 
> Good luck to you..


Chocy:
I have fairly long arms (always have problems buying shirts; have to buy 35's or longer)  
Can you tell me what is the the height of top headset spacer? not the "spacers" on the steerer; just the top one, above the bearings.
Thanks!


----------



## amd

I've got a few questions for the group...

1. How do you determine what kind of bb you need and do you need to tell them that when ordering?

2. Helluvaskier - your bike is ud finish, but you painted it. What is the point in picking a finish if you paint it?

check out http://www.wheelbuilder.com/store/gallery.php?
look at the first picture... These frames are getting around!


----------



## ganginwood

what are e-hongfus 2 stiffest and most aggressive frames? i think i'm going to give this a shot but want a race ready machine. 
i'd like the integrated seatpost option...and the non integrated option.
i'm coming off of a look 595 ultra if that helps.

also, the seatpost looks a little shaky where it connects to the frame on the integrated model. what is the build like and does anyone have a close-up?


----------



## PLAYONIT

ganginwood said:


> what are e-hongfus 2 stiffest and most aggressive frames? i think i'm going to give this a shot but want a race ready machine.
> i'd like the integrated seatpost option...and the non integrated option.
> i'm coming off of a look 595 ultra if that helps.
> 
> also, the seatpost looks a little shaky where it connects to the frame on the integrated model. what is the build like and does anyone have a close-up?


What do you mean by shaky??? If you mean the ISP version of the frame? it's very stout.... The FM-015SPL is very stiff.. I am 200lb. and it is very stable..


----------



## ganginwood

i just meant it looked cheap, compared to my look. do you have pics i can see of your bike? i'd really like to get this frame. what fork went with it and do you get to chose the weave for wach frame or is it whatever they have at the time? 
also...the ehong fu site is the only one i've visited. are there others?
thanks for the help


----------



## PLAYONIT

*ISP seat mast search.....*

I have just never got a warm fuzzy about the Ritchey Stubby seat mast I used to replace the mast that comes with the 015-SPL which IMHO is a boat anchor and not very pleasant to my eyes.. ..... I have been in contact with an Italian company "Thecno Italy" that makes a integrated seat mast. I am waiting to hear back on inside diameter fit and shipping cost.. I was quoted 67euro (about 90us) without shipping for the mast and the jig to cut the mast and drill the hole needed to mount the adjuster. I have added a few images.... Baum and Passoni Bikes use this mast on their isp models... both respected builders...


----------



## PLAYONIT

ganginwood said:


> i just meant it looked cheap, compared to my look. do you have pics i can see of your bike? i'd really like to get this frame. what fork went with it and do you get to chose the weave for wach frame or is it whatever they have at the time?
> also...the ehong fu site is the only one i've visited. are there others?
> thanks for the help


Here is a couple of pics... plus read my new post....
View attachment 197932


----------



## ganginwood

a few more questions...
1. what weave is that?
2. is the 015 stiffer than the 001 spl? which one is the more aggressive geometry.
3. is there anything i need to order specifically for this frame or the 001, that a build kit wouldn't come with in order to get it up and running?


----------



## PLAYONIT

ganginwood said:


> a few more questions...
> 1. what weave is that?
> 2. is the 015 stiffer than the 001 spl? which one is the more aggressive geometry.
> 3. is there anything i need to order specifically for this frame or the 001, that a build kit wouldn't come with in order to get it up and running?


1. 3k weave
2. The 015 is stiffer and more aggressive.. The 01 is more relaxed. The 015 has a huge BB area and has the tapered head tube which is top to bottom 1.125 x 1.500 .
3. For the 015 you should get the headset $15.00 which has the larger bottom bearing..

I really love my 015.. the more I ride it... the more it's true characteristics come out.. this bike climbs and accelerates very impressively....


----------



## ganginwood

the only problem is the 015 doesn't come in a 56. 

weird...by the photos the 001 looks much more aggressive. i didn't look at the specifics.


----------



## Sk1pp3r

I second the beefi-ness of the seat mast. This frame is very stiff, no problems yet with the seat mast. I also second the headset because of the taper, the seat clamp for th ISP model FM015 is included.


----------



## chocy

ganginwood,

do you realize that seatmast on LOOKS ISP costs almost as much as this entire frame? I agree that look has amazing finish on their ISP seatmast.

As for stiffness and strength of the frame. I can definitly vouch for it after almost 2000 miles of riding with stock seatmast. I would like to try something nicer and cleaner with seatmast but stock one works fine.


----------



## Rob81

any experiences about frame fm202?

I'm waiting for the Fm028 but this is tempting too (994grams in size 52 and I need 44 or 49 )
http://www.alibaba.com/product-gs/212574262/carbon_bike_frame_FM202/showimage.html
And yes it's a Ribble Sportive Carbon Road Frame
(thumb up for their honest price too, but direct source is even cheaper)


----------



## tthome

karlo said:


> I have not ordered anything yet but might also go with this one, the quote did not include shipping. This is his email where you can reach him just remember the time difference.
> 
> [email protected]


Still waiting on reply from Tony...day 3 will be tomorrow.


----------



## HeluvaSkier

Rob81 said:


> any experiences about frame fm202?
> 
> I'm waiting for the Fm028 but this is tempting too (994grams in size 52 and I need 44 or 49 )
> http://www.alibaba.com/product-gs/212574262/carbon_bike_frame_FM202/showimage.html
> And yes it's a Ribble Sportive Carbon Road Frame
> (thumb up for their honest price too, but direct source is even cheaper)


Also the same as PF RS2? Looks it...


----------



## mdime

This may be a dumb question (it's been a LONG time since I've built a bike) but how finished are these frame from Hongfu? Am I going to need a shop to prep the headtube/steerer or bottom bracket?


----------



## ganginwood

ok..so why are the bikes in this thread the same bikes that are on the ehongfu website under "complete bikes"?
playonit, are you part of e-hongfu?

i really want to give this a shot but that was kind of strange seeing the same pics listed on their website.


----------



## Rob81

HeluvaSkier said:


> Also the same as PF RS2? Looks it...


It does seem so, weight/size matches too.
ASA I get a price I'll make my decision


----------



## chocy

hmm looks like they look some images from here. The image owners should contact them and work it out....

mdime, 

no it comes in pretty decently finished. if you are absolutely meticulous, then you might want to face BB. but that is about it. (I was told by LBS it was not necessary)


----------



## ganginwood

how about the fact that there is a bike on page 4 of this thread, paeg 6, page 7, and this page...all from different members, all in front of the same garage door? which...happens to be on the e hong fu site???

i'm just playing devils adbocate here...not insulting anyone. like i said..i want one of these... but want to make sure its the real deal.


----------



## robpar

tthome said:


> Still waiting on reply from Tony...day 3 will be tomorrow.


try him again; responded to me in less than 24 hrs; I got cad drawings on FM028: sizes 54, 56 and 58. I just need better pictures; I'm not sure about the top tube shape... the FM015 looks better; I think. The geos are a bit different; almost same seat angle but FM028 has a steeper head angle.


----------



## robpar

ganginwood said:


> the only problem is the 015 doesn't come in a 56.
> 
> weird...by the photos the 001 looks much more aggressive. i didn't look at the specifics.


 Agreed; 55 a little too small; 58 a little too big for me; I could ride either but without trying...I'm not sure. The FM028 (from greatkeen) comes in 56, with little steeper head angle though; i just don't know if i like it as much (looks that is)


----------



## PLAYONIT

ganginwood said:


> ok..so why are the bikes in this thread the same bikes that are on the ehongfu website under "complete bikes"?
> playonit, are you part of e-hongfu?
> 
> i really want to give this a shot but that was kind of strange seeing the same pics listed on their website.[/QUOTE
> 
> No I am not part of Hongfu.... they stole my image off this site... if you could blow the image of my bike up you would see in the left lower corner "Copyright 2010 gregory snook photography © " all my images are copyrighted. In this country I would be able to act on it but I doubt copyright laws matter in China...... ;^) ROTFLMAO


----------



## PLAYONIT

"how about the fact that there is a bike on page 4 of this thread, paeg 6, page 7, and this page...all from different members, all in front of the same garage door? which...happens to be on the e hong fu site???

i'm just playing devils adbocate here...not insulting anyone. like i said..i want one of these... but want to make sure its the real deal."




Yup you caught us...... darn..... just kidding no offense takin....

In reality I stand behind my post's as well I'm sure Chocy and HeluvaSkier and few others who have bought there will stand behind theirs as being authentic.. If there is that much trepidation on your part I would suggest you buy domestically.... look through the road bike gallery... you will see Garage doors make a popular back drop.


----------



## raymonda

ganginwood said:


> how about the fact that there is a bike on page 4 of this thread, paeg 6, page 7, and this page...all from different members, all in front of the same garage door? which...happens to be on the e hong fu site???
> 
> i'm just playing devils adbocate here...not insulting anyone. like i said..i want one of these... but want to make sure its the real deal.



Oh man, that is the same garage door I have. Either, you guys have been sneaking over to my house when I'm not at home and taking pictures or I live in China! So which is it? :idea:


----------



## thiscarcrash1

i think if you take a closer look you'll note that the pavement/asphalt in front of the garage door is different...
also, i'd be willing to wager that 90% of white garage doors in modern communities are the EXACT same model. thats just common sense really...

imo, if you're that skeptical, buy 3 and still save money.


----------



## robpar

thiscarcrash1 said:


> i think if you take a closer look you'll note that the pavement/asphalt in front of the garage door is different...
> also, i'd be willing to wager that 90% of white garage doors in modern communities are the EXACT same model. thats just common sense really...
> 
> imo, if you're that skeptical, buy 3 and still save money.


Most garage doors these days are made in China


----------



## Sk1pp3r

robpar said:


> Most garage doors these days are made in China


hahaha

I gave it a chance and everything turned out great. The service was better than alot of American companies I have dealt with and shipped to my house from China faster than these same companies.(no I don't live in china, lol, I'm in Dayton, Ohio :thumbsup: ) The only issue I have heard about the process is a couple people have gotten the wrong fork, or some things were missing (possibly the Post office fault), I am still trying to determine if my size is the 55. But as far as getting the frame here, and the fit and finish, it is great!. No I don't work for them, I am just a happy consumer sharing the experience I have had.
ps my pics were not infront of a garage door.


----------



## popper252

Sk1pp3r said:


> hahaha
> 
> I gave it a chance and everything turned out great. The service was better than alot of American companies I have dealt with and shipped to my house from China faster than these same companies.(no I don't live in china, lol, I'm in Dayton, Ohio :thumbsup: ) The only issue I have heard about the process is a couple people have gotten the wrong fork, or some things were missing (possibly the Post office fault), I am still trying to determine if my size is the 55. But as far as getting the frame here, and the fit and finish, it is great!. No I don't work for them, I am just a happy consumer sharing the experience I have had.
> ps my pics were not infront of a garage door.


My sentiment is right up there with yours. Really friendly service from Jenny over at hongfu and shipping was quick and expedited. Now with their online shop setup it looks like things will be even easier. Like you said, it got here quicker from China than it normally takes for stuff to ship across the US. 
I did a 90 mile ride on mine last weekend and while I'm still adjusting the bike to fit me (it's my first road bike, I'm a diehard mtbiker at heart) the frame has performed flawlessly. 

The whole experience of building the bike up myself has also been pretty damn rewarding. I enjoyed the process of picking out the individual parts and having something that was uniquely mine.

While going this route isn't for everyone I'm happy I went through with it :thumbsup:


----------



## chocy

OK 

I just got done riding solo century today. Great day here in NYC area. I hit a pot hole going down hill 35MPH, it ripped my slide mount saddle bag right off ( I overloaded it with my arm warmer I guess...) Now I am going to get a new saddle bag. 

Oh yeah frame is still great That happened at mile 35 or so and I still had a great ride after that (I used Velcro to make it dangle around under my seat) 

I have to say more I get used to the bike more I like it. Like Heluvaskier said, The bike is really amazing going fast 25 + or so. According to my garmin I was 24+ 25% of the time. and I hit 48MPH downhill and what a rock solid ride. I have to admit though, I must have been too excited in the beginning I got a nasty cramp at mile 95 but I did make it home after a little rest. Anyway bike is great great great!!


PLAYONIT, let me know how it goes with the seatmast. I am very interested in replacing mine also...


----------



## steveymcdubs

squarepedaller said:


> Hey Everyone,
> 
> First post, hope its a good one, especially for Stevey
> 
> Just email Jenny at e-Hong-Fu ( [email protected]) and ask for the CAD JPG. She will supply. And here's what she sent me - FM015, 53cm.
> 
> My frame should be here in a day or so. Can't wait.



Thanks a lot!

I'll be sure to ask her for geo charts. Much appreciated.

And be sure to show us your built up bike!


----------



## Sk1pp3r

Wow, 48 sounds fast. I can't wait to finish putting in my new force stuff, then I'm in search of a hill to try that. Glad to hear the frame is ok!


----------



## Rob81

about pics tony (greatkeen) asked my permission to use mine and I sent them via Skype, dunno if he's used them.
About frames, sweet Granfondo victory (in my category, GF Gimondi) for me on a Fm015 today


----------



## Sk1pp3r

Sweet way to represent the FM015 group


----------



## Bridgey

I am enjoying reading about your experiences. Makes me impatient waiting for mine to arrive. With e-hongfu frames, which one is the same as the Pedal Force CG1? Still waiting on my SRAM Force parts and other components. Pedal Force seems to advertise a lot of parts they can't get in a hurry. And I stuffed up the saddle setback. Thought -1.0cm setback was behind the seatpost (but it is in front). So had to change my stem and get a zero setback seatpost. Ended getting a Velocite (185gms) but no max. rider weight. Seems okay. 

Anyway can't wait to start building.


----------



## HeluvaSkier

Bridgey said:


> With e-hongfu frames, which one is the same as the Pedal Force CG1?


None. I've seen the RS2 at Greatkeen, but no CG1. IMO, if you want a PF frame, buy it from PF... same as with any other brand.


----------



## Rob81

Don't know about the CG1 but there's a PF Zx3 hidden in the "big" red country 
http://www.alibaba.com/product-free/100239775/Bfr_C005_Carbon_Frame.html


----------



## robpar

Sk1pp3r said:


> Sweet way to represent the FM015 group


Ok. I'm almost ready to pull the trigger but can't decide between FM015 or the FM028. There are more reviews on the FM015 (hungfu) but not many on the FM028 (greatkeen), they seem very similar, just slightly different head tube angle. Also it seems the Fm015 is available from greatkeen... I like the thin seatstays on the FM015 but I wonder if that will make a too stiff ride. The FM028 has slightly curved seatstays and if you believe al the marketing hype from the big guys, it should make for a more forgivable ride, but they look a little "clunky". Size wise, I think I can make the FM015 55cm work just as well as the FM028 56 cm. 
Any thoughts?
Thanks!


----------



## rruff

It's the FM28 not FM028... which I think is a TT frame. The thin seatstays will not be a harsher ride, IMO... but I much prefer the looks of the FM28... and it's 200g lighter... which is really nice if you want a light frame, but maybe not if you want the most durable frame.


----------



## campLo

Im definitely set on the FM015 but now I just cant decide if I want the spl or regular. Any advice/suggestions?


----------



## Rob81

rruff said:


> It's the FM28 not FM028... which I think is a TT frame. The thin seatstays will not be a harsher ride, IMO... but I much prefer the looks of the FM28... and it's 200g lighter... which is really nice if you want a light frame, but maybe not if you want the most durable frame.


Road frame is FM028 and for now is available only in 1 or 2 sizes, both FM028 and FM015 are made from Greatkeen, the others seems to be just distributors of these frames. Indeed FM028 can be ordered from Greatkeen only so far.


----------



## pennyweight

What seat are you using?


----------



## campLo

As far as finishes go, what is UD?


----------



## rruff

Rob81 said:


> Road frame is FM028 and for now is available only in 1 or 2 sizes, both FM028 and FM015 are made from Greatkeen, the others seems to be just distributors of these frames. Indeed FM028 can be ordered from Greatkeen only so far.


Is this the one you are talking about? Says FM28.

http://dgxtkj.en.alibaba.com/produc...bon_frame_set_carbon_road_frame_and_fork.html


----------



## HeluvaSkier

campLo said:


> As far as finishes go, what is UD?


This question has been asked and answered many times in this thread. UD = unidirectional. 

In gloss, it looks like this:


----------



## lenny1jz

Paidi for my Fm015 on thurs; the tracking info says it should be delivered today. WOW Lighting fast.


----------



## popper252

pennyweight said:


> What seat are you using?


That's the Tioga Spyder Twin Tail. It's surprisingly comfortable for not having any padding. Just have to make sure to get the angle adjusted right. 
Only 140 grams too


----------



## Sk1pp3r

HeluvaSkier said:


>



Man I forgot how sexy that bike looked. I love it! Especially that red chainring on the force crank. I just got my force shifters today so the crank is the next thing I need. Can't wait to ride. . again


----------



## silicagel

rruff said:


> Is this the one you are talking about? Says FM28.
> 
> http://dgxtkj.en.alibaba.com/produc...bon_frame_set_carbon_road_frame_and_fork.html


Yes it is, and thats what Tony wrote me about a couple of days ago:

Sorry at present i have not 52cm frame for FM028.
Now i only finished 54cm frame include ISP frame and non-isp frame.
Next we will open 56cm and 58cm and 60cm and 52cm and 50cm in the future month.
If you have any question pls contact me.
Best regards
tony


----------



## mtymxdh

one question, do I have to pay some kind of import taxes, or the mail guy just leaves the box in the door, and that's it?

I ask this because if I buy one of this frames, I'm shipping it to a mailbox, and if you have to pay something, they might not accept the package. 



thanks!


----------



## PLAYONIT

mtymxdh said:


> one question, do I have to pay some kind of import taxes, or the mail guy just leaves the box in the door, and that's it?
> 
> I ask this because if I buy one of this frames, I'm shipping it to a mailbox, and if you have to pay something, they might not accept the package.
> 
> 
> 
> thanks!


I paid no duties... The bike was shipped EMS (postal service) to the US where the USPS took possession of the frame and delivered it to my door. I believe I had to sign for but no extra fees changed hands....

There was one buyer from Germany who had to pay duties... but if your in the US you should not have a problem... The sellers usually claim the shipment as a $20 gift..


----------



## Sk1pp3r

I never had to pay the duties either (I live in the US), just had to sign for it when it arrived. I only had to pay a paypal fee up front, but that was for the whole purchase.


----------



## BlackDoggystyle

PLAYONIT said:


> I paid no duties... The bike was shipped EMS (postal service) to the US where the USPS took possession of the frame and delivered it to my door. I believe I had to sign for but no extra fees changed hands....
> 
> There was one buyer from Germany who had to pay duties... but if your in the US you should not have a problem... The sellers usually claim the shipment as a $20 gift..


The packages all pass customs. It depends on how ignorend the guy is at the moment your bike passes customs.

If the customs officer believed you just bought a 20$ carbon frame...you just got lucky.

But you guys in the US don't have to complain...Taxes depends of the State you live in and most of them is hardly 4%

Here in Europe we don't have ignorent customs officers . Like in Belgium you pay 21% on the bike+shipping ( because the shipping is a service you have to pay tax on) + x% on the value of the bike depending the origin of the frame. China products is 8% here.

In most cases you need to send your invoice/Paypal paiment for correct declaration. No propper declaration and the bike gets send back or ...how do you say it..."impounded"?

Then add 30$ for administration costs....yep... You guys get it cheap!


----------



## chocy

according to US custom law, any personal purchase from overseas do not incur import tax. I know this because I had to get my Leica camera shipped here from Germany and and did some research on this topic. They only ask you for a fee when they believe it is not for a personal use.


----------



## robpar

silicagel said:


> Yes it is, and thats what Tony wrote me about a couple of days ago:
> 
> Sorry at present i have not 52cm frame for FM028.
> Now i only finished 54cm frame include ISP frame and non-isp frame.
> Next we will open 56cm and 58cm and 60cm and 52cm and 50cm in the future month.
> If you have any question pls contact me.
> Best regards
> tony


 Correct; it's FM028. I have the specs from Tony.... So anybody has it?
Any reviews? 
It's nice looking but maybe not as nice as FM015?. 
I don't know about the weight difference though...


----------



## yurl

PLAYONIT said:


> Look above in this thread (PG.22) at HeluvaSkier's Bike pics it's an 015 with UD....


thanks


----------



## HeluvaSkier

I have to say, I just replaced my aluminum bad weather bike with an 015 (non-SPL) and the 015-SPL is a much cooler looking frame. The 015 is still a good looking bike, but it doesn't have the same slick look that the ISP model has. It's still light though... 16.3lbs [frame-only was 1070g] with first-gen Rival, an older FSA Carbon Pro crank set, and 1600g training wheels from the Giant ART team. 

To those wondering about 3k versus UD weave... IMO the UD looks a lot better. It is easier to see blemishes in the 3k. The UD that I ordered showed barely any flaws and the ones that are present are very hard to distinguish.


----------



## ganginwood

heluva.....what seat post clamp...and size did you use?

also...jenny keeps telling me about some open decal template to design the paint scheme. does anyone know what this is and if its located on their site? i can't find it.


----------



## HeluvaSkier

ganginwood said:


> heluva.....what seat post clamp...and size did you use?


On the ISP frame or on the non-ISP frame? 

The 015-SPL ISP that I'm using is a 32.4mm Thomson Elite cut down to 7cm (I know, I know, it is sad to do that to one of the best posts ever made), and a 36.9mm Specialized Stumpjumper post clamp. The whole assembly is around 130g. 

The 015 non-ISP frame take a standard 34.9mm clamp and 31.6mm post. I'm actually using a 27.2 post with a shim in mine just because that it what I had laying around. 

Upon further review and experience with the FM015, the SPL is actually lighter when built up if you use a sensible mast-head solution because there is only ~30g weight difference between the two frames. ~1100 for the 015-SPL after being cut and ~1070 for the 015.


----------



## ganginwood

so you just stuck a seat post down the frame of an ISP? doesn't that go against the reason for the ISP in the first place (lateral stiffness)?

i will say this....i like the look of what you did better that the mast that comes with it. where is the option to order the usd weave?


----------



## HeluvaSkier

ganginwood said:


> so you just stuck a seat post down the frame of an ISP? doesn't that go against the reason for the ISP in the first place (lateral stiffness)?
> 
> i will say this....i like the look of what you did better that the mast that comes with it. where is the option to order the usd weave?


It is actually not much different from systems like the Time ISP and a few others out there. the fit is pretty snug, and it is still plenty stiff... plus the clamp is much better than what came with the frame. The ISP isn't just for lateral stiffness, but also to fine-tune the ride. 

I order everything straight from Jenny via email instead of using a website, so I just tell her what I want and she gets it for me.


----------



## ogdnut

Had the same experience ordering UD frame. Just go on MSN Messenger, send a request to add her as a contact using the contact email from the bottom left of the hongfu website (I used [email protected]) and tell her exactly what you want. She'll send you the invoice and then you pay with whatever method you work out with jenny. Think she is normally online about midnight Eastern Standard time (i'm in DC) until 10 am Eastern. Everyday but Monday and Tuesday I think is what she told me.


----------



## karlo

Found this site for those who need to tell the difference in weaves:

http://www.storckbicycle.com/usa/index.php?c=tech&s=carbonfiber


----------



## gmeamtn

great link! thanks for sharing. do any of these manufacturers use a matte clear coating? i've only seen examples with a gloss clear coat in this thread. thx!


----------



## Sk1pp3r

Here are some updated pics with new Force stuff on. Still saving for that crank.

<a href="https://www.flickr.com/photos/justinbethany/4558552887/" title="New steed by sk1ppur, on Flickr"><img src="https://farm4.static.flickr.com/3091/4558552887_c6b1a24fbf.jpg" width="500" height="375" alt="New steed" /></a>
<a href="https://www.flickr.com/photos/justinbethany/4558556263/" title="New steed by sk1ppur, on Flickr"><img src="https://farm4.static.flickr.com/3375/4558556263_6fc04bff08.jpg" width="500" height="375" alt="New steed" /></a>
<a href="https://www.flickr.com/photos/justinbethany/4558554597/" title="New steed by sk1ppur, on Flickr"><img src="https://farm4.static.flickr.com/3122/4558554597_4347d381a6.jpg" width="500" height="375" alt="New steed" /></a>
<a href="https://www.flickr.com/photos/justinbethany/4558558941/" title="New steed by sk1ppur, on Flickr"><img src="https://farm4.static.flickr.com/3601/4558558941_eaac1f261c.jpg" width="500" height="375" alt="New steed" /></a>
<a href="https://www.flickr.com/photos/justinbethany/4558560597/" title="New steed by sk1ppur, on Flickr"><img src="https://farm4.static.flickr.com/3181/4558560597_74f3455f4c.jpg" width="500" height="375" alt="New steed" /></a>
<a href="https://www.flickr.com/photos/justinbethany/4559193294/" title="New steed by sk1ppur, on Flickr"><img src="https://farm4.static.flickr.com/3530/4559193294_3c4574634c.jpg" width="500" height="375" alt="New steed" /></a>
<a href="https://www.flickr.com/photos/justinbethany/4558564385/" title="New steed by sk1ppur, on Flickr"><img src="https://farm4.static.flickr.com/3457/4558564385_716af7efb8.jpg" width="500" height="375" alt="New steed" /></a>

There are a couple more here if you want, https://www.flickr.com/photos/justinbethany/sets/72157623773097669/


----------



## chocy

Heluvaskier,

Did you cut a notch for your clamp? I am thinking about using a 32.4 -> 31.8 shim (or 32.4 --> 27.2) and get a short seat post.

Sk1pp3r, your bike is looking great. What do you think about blue bar tape to match your saddle?


----------



## Sk1pp3r

It was a saddle I got with a previous bike. I am actually trying to get away from colors and go all black. Maybe black and white, because of the force logo. I had the red-lined tires from a previous build as well so in the future will try to go the black route. Thanks for the suggestion though, the blue handlebar tape would really bring it out if I was going for that look.


----------



## bizzybone485

Ok well now that all my parts are together i am finishing up my build. However, i cant seem to understand how to mount the brake caliper without it just twisting around. Doesnt seem like its gonna stay in place. It also feel as though if i make it too tight that i might rip through the carbon. Any help would be great. Im new to building btw. Thanks

Ok nm...was harder than i was making it out to be.

Expect some pics....015, Ultegra SL with DA7700 Crank,Neuvation wheels(Gatorskin25mm...black....couldn't find decent 25mm tires for the life of me), Ritchey 4 wcs Stem, and DA Cables. Im really excited. I had a trek 1000 that got stolen 2 weeks after i had it and thought that was pretty fast. Now im riding a trek 4900 MTB so its definately gonna be a change. 

BTW...Thanks for all the help!!


----------



## andresmuro

Does anyone have an opinion on this particular model? I like the geometry, long top tube and steep seat angle.

http://cgi.ebay.com/New-Full-Carbon...Road_Bikes&hash=item3cac905ce9#ht_1833wt_1163


----------



## HeluvaSkier

andresmuro said:


> Does anyone have an opinion on this particular model? I like the geometry, long top tube and steep seat angle.
> 
> http://cgi.ebay.com/New-Full-Carbon...Road_Bikes&hash=item3cac905ce9#ht_1833wt_1163


It appears to run very big, so be careful. Otherwise it is a sharp-looking frame... although it is a bit close to a Colnago frame. I might not ride it for that reason. If I'm going to ride a generic frame I prefer that it doesn't look like it is trying to be something that it isn't.


----------



## HeluvaSkier

chocy said:


> Heluvaskier,
> 
> Did you cut a notch for your clamp? I am thinking about using a 32.4 -> 31.8 shim (or 32.4 --> 27.2) and get a short seat post.


Yeah, I put a very small notch in the back. I drilled a hole first a few cm down the tube and then cut down to it with a hacksaw blade leaving a slot as wide as the hole I drilled. I cleaned up the edges with some fine grit sandpaper and you can't even tell that it is there. Trust me what I say there is little to no stiffness compromise. I have forgotten what bit-size I used to drill the initial hole though... I think I spent about $50 on my setup. PM me if you want to know where I purchased everything. 

I took my regular 015 out tonight for it's first ride and the bike does ride slightly differently than the SPL model. The builds (that account for the difference) are as follows:

015-SPL: 15.06lbs w/o Garmin mounts
- 2010 Force BB30
- FSA K-Wing & OS-99
- Selle Italia SLR Flow Kit Carbonio
- Thomson Elite 32.4 post/masthead 
- Reynolds Assault
- Pro3 Race tires (thinking about switching to Ultremo R1's)

015: 16.3lbs w/o Garmin mounts
- 2008 Rival w/FSA Team Crank
- Bontrager Select OS bar & Alpha-Q Prolite Stem
- San Marco Aspide Ti
- X-Lab Carbon 27.2mm post (180g, so not a stiff post)
- Kinlin nio30 training wheels 24/24 bladed
- GP4000s tires (first experience with these tires btw, and they give a really nice ride... not as fast as the Pro3 though)

The setup of the SPL obviously lends itself to be a very stiff ride (very intentional). The two bikes feel nearly identical on the road with the only difference being the tires, but I can definitely tell a difference between the ISP with the carbon railed SLR and the X-Lab with the Ti railed Aspide. I think that the 015 without the ISP can be made into a much more plush ride than the 015-SPL - as would be expected - just choose your components wisely. The 015 will be the bike I ride in bad weather and the bike that I ride if I happen to get lured into any crit races this year. The nice part is that even though the post/saddle are a bit more forgiving, nothing is lost at the road.


----------



## Sk1pp3r

One could argue our FM015 looks kinda like the cervelo r3 or whatever model? It's not an issue for me, ours are naked so obviously people know they're not "branded" 
HeluvaSkier after seeing your bike I don't know why anyone would want another. 
Hopefully a new crankset and wheelset is coming for me one day. . .


----------



## HeluvaSkier

Sk1pp3r said:


> One could argue our FM015 looks kinda like the cervelo r3 or whatever model? It's not an issue for me, ours are naked so obviously people know they're not "branded"
> HeluvaSkier after seeing your bike I don't know why anyone would want another.
> Hopefully a new crankset and wheelset is coming for me one day. . .


Thanks. I put a lot of time into finding all the components so I could put together a great build for not a lot of money. I'm happy with the results. 

I ride with several guys who have R3's and having seen both bikes, I think only an unknowing person would mistake this bike for an R3. They may share some characteristics, but they are certainly not the same. Now... if someone said "Cube Litening" I'd have to agree with them, although this is definitely not a Cube either.

BTW - if you want a good bang-for-your-buck crank take a look at the older FSA Team Issue cranks that take an ISIS or square taper bottom bracket, or seriously consider a Zipp 300 crank. Both are pretty cheap and you get a really good quality, light weight crank that will last a long time. My FSA Team Tssue is a square taper model with a carbon-Ti bottom bracket and it weighs less than most modern crank/BB assemblies (just a hair over 700g) and I haven't even tuned with with Ti or alloy crank bolts.


----------



## steveymcdubs

Gah..

I'm having a hard time deciding between a CAAD9 and a FM015.

Could anyone who has ridden both give me some input?


----------



## Sk1pp3r

Well nashbar had a 20% off sale today so I ended up getting the force one, brought it down to $167 before tax/shipping. I already have the GXP BB with enduro ceramic bearings so I wanted to stay with compatible cranks for that BB. Thanks again for the advice though!


----------



## tthome

robpar said:


> Correct; it's FM028. I have the specs from Tony.... So anybody has it?
> Any reviews?
> It's nice looking but maybe not as nice as FM015?.
> I don't know about the weight difference though...


Still waiting on reply from Tony about fm028 and fm015. Its been a week now.


----------



## makntracks

hi just recieved my frame and bottom bearing cup is realy tight on the fork itself. did any one else encounter this problem can i just giive it a light file till its slides on. this is my first carbon build so have no idea.


----------



## campLo

SIGH! Im still amazed at your guys' setups. So envious. My build will be strictly 2009 105 components from my Specialized Allez -_- I figure I can get the frame/fork/handle bars and transfer everything else I need from my current bike. I will probably be going with the FM015 non ISP just for easy of setting everything up. Will be my first build too.

Thanks to whoever posted that link showing the different finishes. Definitely helped me decide to go with the 3k. UD looks nice, but kinda plain.

Heluva - thanks for suggesting those cranks! They are really cheap in comparison to "todays" models. Will probably pickup a FSA Carbon Team ISIS soon...money pit!!! LOL


----------



## berndrea

So I pretty much joined this forum for the carbon ebay builds. After months of consideration I have decided to build one! I have purchased all the parts and am now waiting for them to get here. My build will consist of dura/ultegra/105/fsa mix group, mavic kysrium sl wheels. My total spent is $649! After finding sweet deals on craigslist (ie mavic wheels $260!) and selling the old frames. I am super excited! Pics expected in a week!


----------



## chocy

makntracks, 

I am not sure what you are taking about. Are you refering to fork crown? You should not file anything in that area..


----------



## ms6073

tthome said:


> Still waiting on reply from Tony about fm028 and fm015. Its been a week now.


If this frame is listed on Alibaba, I suggest you consider registering and using Alibaba to contact the manuacturer where your request will probably end being answered by someone form Hong Fu or GreatKeen.


----------



## Grabeef

Makntracks---

Yep, mine was *%^&ing tight. Got it on in the end. Took some persuasion.


----------



## makntracks

this is the problem i cant get it over the tiny lip that is there seems really tight bearing goes on ok just this that doesnt. threw in a couple of pics of my build i finaly got my frame yesterday.


----------



## Sk1pp3r

I did have to sand the steerer tube of the fork just a tad to install the bottom bearing race. Not much at all though, then it went on fine with a couple pounds of the hammer and headset installer. I think I have heard of people using pvc pipe to mash it down, anyone else hear that? Are you having trouble with the bottom race like me or the bearing fitting in the headtube?


----------



## Sk1pp3r

yep that is where I had some trouble. Just wrap some fine sandpaper around and sand a little and I mean little. If you sand too much it will be loose. Then put it on and hammer down with installer or pipe


----------



## Grabeef

I also sanded a small chamfer on the steerer. After more gentler attempts at sliding it on I ended up using the pvc pipe method. Hold fork upside down by legs and ram into pipe. 

Someone else mentioned being worried about clamping on their brake calipers too tight.
I think that you will find that you are bolting down through a solid carbon cylinder / insert. 
When you have cut the steerer, try crushing the scrap bit in a vice. That might give you a bit more confidence.


----------



## lawrencemonsters

I also had to sand it a bit to have it fit ok. Now it is great


----------



## Bkelly

I've got an FM015 non that I'm assembling now. I had to use the PVC method on the crown race. It took some patience to get the race started flat but it went on easily after I got it started.


----------



## chocy

It does need to be force fit. If it slides in, it is NOT a good thing


----------



## l.l.m

Hello I present my bike, italy we are already so many have bought this frame and not only that, we were very satisfied of the behavior of this frame
Sending links of threads 

http://www.bdc-forum.it/showthread.php?t=90218


----------



## l.l.m

:thumbsup:


----------



## l.l.m

:mad2:

Who helps me to post photos on the maximum size?


----------



## l.l.m

:thumbsup:


----------



## PLAYONIT

l.l.m said:


> :thumbsup:


Very nice....... where did you get your seat mast??


----------



## l.l.m

PLAYONIT said:


> Very nice....... where did you get your seat mast??




I made him work for machine tools


----------



## Sk1pp3r

Nice bike! I'm not the biggest campy fan but it flows really well with this bike.


----------



## l.l.m

yes, my campy works perfectly. the only problem campy to be regulated by very good mechanical !!!!!!


----------



## foofighter

great looking bike.

i've been looking at this frame for a while and saw some recent pics of LA on this Trek and that thing is a dead ringer for it.


----------



## 88 rex

LLM, what wheels? Nice bike!


----------



## l.l.m

88 rex said:


> LLM, what wheels? Nice bike!


I'm not a brand, as I realized I have the decal on the circle, using masks, and then I painted them, and finally transparent matt titanium spokes 
and hubs are my own creation, all billet aluminum 6082


----------



## makntracks

you are one very talented person.


----------



## gandini

So you made the hubs, the spokes are Ti, what are the rims? Very fancy looking wheels! Well done.


----------



## MarvinK

LLM: nice paint job--surprised more people don't go through that effort.. successfully


----------



## Italianrider76

Complimenti l.l.m.....veramente una bellissima bici.


----------



## amkesler26

where is everyone buying their groupsets and other components to finish off the builds?


----------



## berndrea

I pieced mine together, i didnt feel like dropping 1500 for a dura ace or rival


----------



## bizzybone485

I pieced mine together through ebay. Just finished it and will get some pics in the sun when the weather clears up. Definitely rides nice!


----------



## l.l.m

gandini said:


> So you made the hubs, the spokes are Ti, what are the rims? Very fancy looking wheels! Well done.


clincher rims are purchased in China on alibaba, the rims were still raw to be painted


----------



## l.l.m

Italianrider76 said:


> Complimenti l.l.m.....veramente una bellissima bici.


Grazie per i complimenti Italianrider76 non so se è possibile ma vorrei postare altre foto di
amici italiani che come me hanno acquistato fm015 e non solo


Thanks for the compliments Italianrider76 not know if it's possible but I would like to post more photos 
Italian friends who like me and not only bought fm015


----------



## l.l.m

List things made by me, stem, hubs, quick releases, kits disburdening campy, venue brontrager on srm cranks on BB30 bottom bracket, and other things that now can not remember


sorry for my English


----------



## Italianrider76

l.l.m said:


> Grazie per i complimenti Italianrider76 non so se è possibile ma vorrei postare altre foto di
> amici italiani che come me hanno acquistato fm015 e non solo
> 
> 
> Thanks for the compliments Italianrider76 not know if it's possible but I would like to post more photos
> Italian friends who like me and not only bought fm015


Certo....altre foto di queste bici sarebbero ben gradite qui. Le bici dei tuoi amici sono verniciate come la tua???


----------



## l.l.m

ok vediamo cosa dicono

0k see what they say


----------



## 88 rex

l.l.m said:


> clincher rims are purchased in China on alibaba, the rims were still raw to be painted



38mm?


----------



## l.l.m

88 rex said:


> 38mm?



yes 38mm!!!


----------



## |Ridley|

Italianrider76 said:


> Certo....altre foto di queste bici sarebbero ben gradite qui. Le bici dei tuoi amici sono verniciate come la tua???


No, ma provengono sempre dallo stesso venditore, questo è il mio telaio bianco perlato e rosso :thumbsup:


----------



## philippec

For what it's worth -- some pictures of my near completed build as of a few weeks ago - I have now raced it 5 times.... it is a rocket! I'll try to post some more recent pictures soon...


----------



## Italianrider76

|Ridley| said:


> No, ma provengono sempre dallo stesso venditore, questo è il mio telaio bianco perlato e rosso :thumbsup:


Bellissimo....veramente. Sei stato tu a verniciarlo o lo hai ricevuto gia' cosi? Una favolosa scelta di colori.


----------



## BlackDoggystyle

Does these frames have inner route guides for the brake cable in the top tube or is it the outer brake cable that goes thru the top tube?


----------



## makntracks

just inner


----------



## skyline377

I think I will soon pull the trigger but can't decide if I want to get the HF-FM015 or the HF-FM010? I haven't seen anyone with the FM010 yet.


----------



## tthome

this may have been asked already but I can't find the answer on the threads. What size clamp on front derailleur is used on the FM-015?


----------



## chocy

I build one up for one of my friend. It las cool lines if you are into more ornamental look. It has a pretty relaxed geometry compared to 015.


----------



## l.l.m

tthome said:


> this may have been asked already but I can't find the answer on the threads. What size clamp on front derailleur is used on the FM-015?



measurement and 34.9 mm front derailleur


----------



## Sk1pp3r

I pieced my group through ebay as well. Just got my force crank today, although the cheapest price I found on that was nashbar with 20% off coupon.


----------



## furry

An FYI to anyone thats looking to buy one of these frames. I had an EXCELLENT experience with bicycle_999 (on ebay). I messaged him and got a great price (i shopped around and this was the best price by far) on my frame/parts and they were delivered in less than a week from China to the East Coast. I've also placed orders from Ribble, PBK, and Wiggle...So far Ribble has dropped the ball


----------



## amd

Isn't this MS6073's tt bike????

http://www.alibaba.com/product-free/110166237/Full_Carbon_TT_Triathlon_bike_54.html

for sale? What happened?


----------



## yurl

gmeamtn said:


> great link! thanks for sharing. do any of these manufacturers use a matte clear coating? i've only seen examples with a gloss clear coat in this thread. thx!


I'm interested in a matte clearcoat as well. Anyone know if HongFu do this? or if can they provide a totally unpainted frame?


----------



## Duci

Has anyone ordered something at http://gm-carbon.com.tw/index_en.htm ?? I'm wondering if they sell directly to the customer (as Hongfu-Bikes). I'm interested in their cyclecross frame GM CC.

Thanks!


----------



## ms6073

amd said:


> Isn't this MS6073's tt bike????


Yes, that is an image of my TT bike, but my bike is most definitely not for sale - especially not for $1000 USD considering the cost of the components is nearly 4-times the asking price on the site linked above. I suspect that since I posted urls to pics uploaded to a public image host, someone snaggexd copies and have appearently felt it was not a problem to use them. Question is are they marketing the frame or trying to market a time trial bike for that price? Either way it is very misrepresented considering I paid nearly half that from the manufacturer. If I were going to pay retail, I would at least want a better paint job, something like teh paint scheme on Boyd Bikes Bow & Arrow


----------



## ms6073

Duci said:


> I'm wondering if they sell directly to the customer (as Hongfu-Bikes). I'm interested in their cyclecross frame GM CC.


Nice find, I am also interested in their carbon CX framesets. Have you tried sending an e-mail inquiry to the address listed on the contact page?


----------



## Duci

ms6073 said:


> Nice find, I am also interested in their carbon CX framesets. Have you tried sending an e-mail inquiry to the address listed on the contact page?


Yes I did - but no answer until now. Maybe you can try it also....


----------



## karlo

I sent them an email but bounced back, i wonder if the email is wrong and "carbon" is misspelled because they have "carbom"

[email protected]


----------



## PLAYONIT

amd said:


> Isn't this MS6073's tt bike????
> 
> http://www.alibaba.com/product-free/110166237/Full_Carbon_TT_Triathlon_bike_54.html
> 
> for sale? What happened?


They probably stole his image Like Hong-fu did mine....


----------



## TallRider01

would the 58cm fit me? 6'5" 36" inseam i like the frame and the price but jw


----------



## Don Duende

philippec said:


> For what it's worth -- some pictures of my near completed build as of a few weeks ago - I have now raced it 5 times.... it is a rocket! I'll try to post some more recent pictures soon...


Very nice looking bike and it rides well!

Maybe some white brifter hoods?


----------



## Duci

karlo said:


> I sent them an email but bounced back, i wonder if the email is wrong and "carbon" is misspelled because they have "carbom"
> 
> [email protected]


Sorry, I forgot. Same happend to me - try carbon instead of carbom. Anyone else hat contact witch GM-Carbon?


----------



## Duci

TallRider01 said:


> would the 58cm fit me? 6'5" 36" inseam i like the frame and the price but jw


what's the price for the frame? incl. fork?


----------



## been200mph

Just got my eBay carbon fiber frameset. Frame, fork, headset, seatpost & clamp, DA bb. Very light use only. Same price as the generic framesets go for.  If I had not been able to acquire this I'd have likely bought one of the generic framesets though. I had set a dollar limit for the move to carbon fiber and was pleased to not exceed it. Parts will transfer from my aluminum frame. All Ultegra except for FSA Team carbon fiber crankset and KMC chain, ITM stem and bar, AC CR-350 wheelset with Conti GP4000S tires. The best part is it'll be a nice fit with it's mtb brother. It never hurts to ask if a person has a price they'll end an auction for! I'm still surprised at the deal I got.


----------



## berndrea

^^Cheater^^ lol


----------



## snookjones

Has anyone had a problem with the internal cable routing hole not lining up correctly? I was able to get it installed, but the pull action on the rear brake could be described as anything but smooth and pleasing, because the cable is rubbing against the entrance to the internal cable routing. 

Any suggestions on how to fix this? Its quite annoying on a bike that otherwise rides like a buttery smooth yet responsive rocket.


----------



## ms6073

snookjones said:


> Has anyone had a problem with the internal cable routing hole not lining up correctly?


Since this thread encompasses more than one model of frame to include both road and time trial/tri, it might help if you mention the model of your frameset.



> Any suggestions on how to fix this?


A cable system with an inner teflon liner such as those from SRAM Gore Ride Professional, Nokon, or Alligator iLinks might resolve that issue.


----------



## berndrea

well I finally got my bike together, got the frame/fork/headset for 360!








The ritchey post and velo seat are leaving when my carbon stuff gets here. Right now it weighs a little over 17lbs


----------



## campLo

woot! My GF is buying me the frame + etc for our anniversary  I just emailed jenny at hong fu that I was ready to place my order. Going with the FM015 in 3k finish and asking for the fork in 12k finish. This morning she surprised me with FSA Team Crankset ISIS lol Shes the greatest


----------



## karlo

campLo said:


> woot! My GF is buying me the frame + etc for our anniversary  I just emailed jenny at hong fu that I was ready to place my order. Going with the FM015 in 3k finish and asking for the fork in 12k finish. This morning she surprised me with FSA Team Crankset ISIS lol Shes the greatest


That's why I also love my girlfriend because my wife never buys me anything  

just kidding, congrats :thumbsup:


----------



## milky

*how to buy*

Hi guys,

I've been following this thread for a while and have decided to get the FM015 SPL with fork, headset, etc in 3k. I have a few questions, surprise I was wondering, how do you actually pay for this? Do you go to the website and order or what? Jenny has so far just told me the price and to pay with paypal or western union. No other details.

Also, if I were to build this up myself, what kind of tools do I need? It sounds like a fun thing to do but this would be a first for me...is this something an amateur can do without totally screwing up the bike?

Oh, and for those who got a paint job, do they give you the option of text or do you just get the white blocking I have seen in other pics?

Thanks for any help with these questions!!
-John


----------



## Grabeef

To pay, Jenny sent me her details and I used paypal.

As for building, you would be wise to get your hands on a big torque wrench (for the BB and possibly rear cog). Probably cheaper to rent than buy. Then buy a small torque wrench specifically for all the other stuff. I got a nice click stop one made by BBB for a reasonable price. You will use this a lot as you will be making adjustments.
Plastic pipe for the crown race or get your LBS to fit it. Hacksaw and home made guide to cut steerer. Measure twice cut once! Third hands and cable cutters are nice but pliers can do the job if you aren't too bothered.
It is easy if you read up on it first ie Park Tools website etc and I did find it rewarding but I like that sort of thing. And no need to buy expensive tools as the budget ones will last unless you are doing this day in day out.


----------



## milky

Thanks Grabeef for the reply!

Yeah, she hasn't sent me her details yet so it was unclear to me how to process payment. I asked again so hopefully she'll send them.

I will definitely take your advice in regards to tools and check out that site. It sounds like fun to me to build it up. However, whenever I do work on my bike I usually am cursing midway through the project!! That seems to be the way of things. Or maybe it's just me...

Thanks again,
John


----------



## furry

Yea i was going to build this frame up myself too...but then i found a good priced mechanic that agreed to do the whole build for what it would cost for the tools alone


----------



## asad137

furry said:


> Yea i was going to build this frame up myself too...but then i found a good priced mechanic that agreed to do the whole build for what it would cost for the tools alone


But...if you bought the tools and learned how to do it yourself, you'd have gained both the knowledge AND have tools to use for whatever else bike-related work you needed to do...

Asad


----------



## tthome

asad137 said:


> But...if you bought the tools and learned how to do it yourself, you'd have gained both the knowledge AND have tools to use for whatever else bike-related work you needed to do...
> 
> Asad


:thumbsup: my thoughts exactly!!!! You'll have tools AND save $$$$ on NOT having to visit the LBS for the next build. I took the plunge and built up my first bike last year. 3 bikes later, some "lessons learned" on what not to do and I'm already helping my other riding buddies out with their bikes and saving them some $$$$ on misc tune up items. I support my LBS regardless, but i also like to keep some $$$$ in my pocket for parts too.


----------



## MarvinK

tthome said:


> ...I support my LBS regardless,


OK, there are some pretty silly things on this thread (like the Cannondale or Trek decal ripoffs), but this quote is my favorite. Nothing supports your LBS more than buying Chinese no-name frames that rip off patented designs off of some ebay store. Everything about this thread benefits local shops and the cycling industry as a whole.

Keep up the unwavering loyalty!


----------



## chocy

OK, 

Here is the latest picture of my bike. Since my last picture. I got my force 2010 crank, longer stem, Assault wheelset, chianti red deda bartape. and I also braved Helluvaskier's seat mast mod. 

I may go with a grey or white handle bar to make the bike black and white scheme soon.

I now have over 2000 miles on this bike. and my opinion hasn't changed much. It is a great ride. 

As for the mod, It did make a difference in ride quality. As I suspected, the ride has become harsher. You definitely feel the bump with less dampening feel. But it also makes the bike feel much more responsive and lively. 

It is a very interesting change. The standard seat mast was 170g and the mod is 150g so there was a 20g savings.

I only did about 30 miles on it so I am going to give it a little more time.


----------



## been200mph

I agree; build it up yourself. It really doesn't take that many bike-specific tools and the ones it does take you'll have to use for the future. I've built up my own mountain and road bikes and much prefer doing it myself.


----------



## texascyclist

MarvinK said:


> Nothing supports your LBS more than buying Chinese no-name frames that rip off patented designs


I agree that fake stickers on these frames is silly. I am having trouble finding the "patented designs" though. Have I missed something?


----------



## literider

Does anyone have more info on the differences between models? Is the FM-001 the top of the line frame?


----------



## Bkelly

*A few pics of my new bike.*

Part of the reason that I developed the cojones to build up one of these frames is because of this forum. So I thought that I had better show everyone the results. First, there has been little in the way of bad press about these frames. This is a good thing because if these frames were crap, I would hope to hear about it. In that vein, my bike had one small flaw that you all should see.

the BB is external so the dent is of no real consequence but I was glad that I had the BB faced.

The rest of the pics are of my non professional paint job, the small graphics package, and of course the finished product.

It rides like buttah


----------



## texascyclist

I like it! Great job! 

Are there any lessons learned that you can share with us regarding painting the frame? I am looking at doing the same thing.


----------



## T K

I am loving what some of you are doing with your paint and graphics. Really nice, you should be proud of your finished product. Outstanding!
On the other hand, if I see one more of these with Giant, Specialized, Trek, Cdale or whatever on it I'm gonna barf! WTF!!! If you want one of those so bad save up and buy one. Or like one genius here whom I think put Trek stickers on his said somthing like "big companies charge to much and are ripping people off" well then why would you want to glorify, advertise or pay homage to them. Are you afraid somebody will laugh at you for riding a no-name bike? I'm building up a $200 Scattante and plan on grinding a few Cervelos into dust on it. Who's laughing?
I can't think of anything in cycling that looks more d-bag. Except maybe those tiny fixie bars. Oh, or those gay little cycling hats.
OK, I'm done. Sorry.Carry on.


----------



## texascyclist

Those hats are great, if you want to look like a welder or a penis.


----------



## Bkelly

> Are there any lessons learned that you can share with us regarding painting the frame? I am looking at doing the same thing.


I bought some star stickers at Target for the star field on my forks and when I peeled them they lifted some of the white down to the primer. My graphics guy told me that he could have cut them for me on a medium specific for paint so that I could have avoided that. Everything I painted was with rattle cans.


----------



## texascyclist

how did you do the Kelly clover detail? Thin decal?


----------



## Bkelly

texascyclist said:


> how did you do the Kelly clover detail? Thin decal?


I took my idea to a guy that runs a small custom vehicle graphics company in town. He pushed out the headbadge, the Slainte, and the Liath Macha on the seat tube in about an hour. It's all vinyl stickers that he applied. Cost was $60. I could have been a little more ornate but I was looking for kind of a corporate look.


----------



## yurl

looks awesome!


----------



## literider

Anyone have more info on the forks? What's up with the dropouts on this one:

http://cgi.ebay.com/Brand-New-Full-...Road_Bikes&hash=item563c456247#ht_1529wt_1167


----------



## supras2kracer

Has anyone had problems with their bottom bracket? I have less than a thousand miles on mine and the bottom bracket's flexing like crazy and sounds like it's going to come apart if I stand up on it. There's visible flex and the paint (if that's what it is) is chipping.


----------



## tthome

Pictures and frame model would be great. Are you a bug guy?


----------



## supras2kracer

It's the kredo clone. I'm 5'9 150 lbs.


----------



## chocy

hmm that really doesn't look good. Perhaps you got a defective frame?/


----------



## supras2kracer

chocy said:


> hmm that really doesn't look good. Perhaps you got a defective frame?/


It's looking that way :/

I've had the top chipping since the first week I had it but there was no noise back then. It's been getting progressively worse, noisier, and the chipping on the right has recently appeared.

I'm not sure how unsafe it is to ride now. If it fails I probably wouldn't fly over the handlebars or anything but to be safe I guess I'll keep it on the trainer from now on.


----------



## berndrea

thats not good, i have the same frame.


----------



## T K

Here is where the rubber meets the road on these frames. Either you look at it like, I'm totally screwed I bought a cheap Ebay frame with no warranty. Or oh well for what I paid for it I could by 9 more of these and still come out ahead.


----------



## supras2kracer

T K said:


> Here is where the rubber meets the road on these frames. Either you look at it like, I'm totally screwed I bought a cheap Ebay frame with no warranty. Or oh well for what I paid for it I could by 9 more of these and still come out ahead.


Right now I'm with the first viewpoint haha. I'm a college senior with no money at the moment and no foreseeable means of income. Maybe if I get into med school and approved for student loans I'll pick up a new frame. For now I'm not screwed, I can still use it on the trainer, but what fun is that?


----------



## MarvinK

Don't the ebay sellers work with you if there is a major flaw? 

I can't see how replacing a frame 9 times leaves anyone ahead--I'd think if you bought a reputable frame and got a warranty.. and they replaced it for free 9 times, you still wouldn't consider it OK... and wouldn't buy again. If I had a frame with no warranty and the bottom bracket was falling off... I wouldn't make the same mistake 8 more times.


----------



## T K

You're missing the point Marvin, I was giving him a glass half full veiwpoint. If he would have bought the real Kuota he would have paid ten times as much. Were not talking about major brand name frames here. It's like buying cheap tools and using them til they break and then just go buy another, or spending out the butt on Snap On and not worry about it. 
I'm sorry you couldn't figure that out on your own. Apparently he did.


----------



## aikendrum

Hi supras2kracer - Feel your pain - Could you provide the frame make and model number? Also helpful would be your weight and whether you used a BB torque wrench during installation.


----------



## supras2kracer

I bought it from Hong Fu a while ago and the flaw hasn't shown itself till recently. Judging from other people who buy these frames problems seem rare. Another possibility is that a people just build nice looking bikes that sit in a garage or living room 11 months out of the year and aren't ridden enough for the problems to present themselves.

I'm a busy student and don't get to ride much. I'm sure if I rode more frequently I could have caught the problem earlier and tried to get an exchange.

I'll be hesitant to buy another carbon ebay frame and may just get the scattante aluminum frame I think TK is talking about.




MarvinK said:


> Don't the ebay sellers work with you if there is a major flaw?
> 
> I can't see how replacing a frame 9 times leaves anyone ahead--I'd think if you bought a reputable frame and got a warranty.. and they replaced it for free 9 times, you still wouldn't consider it OK... and wouldn't buy again. If I had a frame with no warranty and the bottom bracket was falling off... I wouldn't make the same mistake 8 more times.


----------



## bcmf

@supras2kracer: Have you been in touch with Hong-Fu to notify them of them problem?


----------



## Rob81

supras2kracer said:


> Another possibility is that a people just build nice looking bikes that sit in a garage or living room 11 months out of the year and aren't ridden enough for the problems to present themselves.


mhh nope, I ride my 2 Chinese frames 7/7 and the 3rd has just landed.
I just think you got a faulty frame, I guess it's statistic :mad2:


----------



## tthome

I also have the Kuota Kredo clone. I didn't buy it from Hong Fu but Bicycle99 on ebay. It's holding up just fine. I will say that depending on which crankset I put on the Frame determines the amount of noise I hear at the bottom bracket but it's more the crank itself. In any event, IMO you might have a faulty frame. It happens to all the bike makers. It looks like maybe the BB was over torqued when installed or possibly just manufacturer defect. I would check with Hong Fu if you bought it from them and see if they can help you. I just purchased an FM015 this morning from Hong Fu to go along with my FM001 (Kredo). Many other boutique bike makers are simply painting these FM015's and rebadging them with their label. They're offering up warranties on them so I would think there would be a few "warranty claims" here and there. Here is a website of a local racer/coach selling the FM015 with his own paint scheme http://www.boydbikes.com/B101frame.html. From the people I've spoke with who have this frame they love it and state that it's every bit as good as the other high end frames they've raced before. I'm not a racer, but hearing the positive remarks from riders who are racers and well above my capability is good enough for me. I need another bike like a hole in the head, but i'm justifying the purchase because I have enough spare parts to build up another bike. Only thing I'm missing is the frame. Now the question is what to buy my wife so that I can deflect the attention away from the new bike that will be in the house? :idea: (uhh have to get back to you).


----------



## Pinarc

nice frame!


----------



## Pinarc

I compared with fm015 and fm101 from greatkeenbike.com for long time,and finally i decide to order fm101,because the seller could paint with the decal of pinarello,it look wonderful in picture....also i am still waiting for mine frame.excited.


----------



## martylane

Has anyone found a geometry chart with effective top tube lengths for the FM015? I just emailed Jenny to ask her if there is one, but in case there isn't, does anyone here have a size 53? I'm thinking it should have an effective top tube in the 54-55 range, which is what I'm looking for.


----------



## Pinarc

martylane said:


> Has anyone found a geometry chart with effective top tube lengths for the FM015? I just emailed Jenny to ask her if there is one, but in case there isn't, does anyone here have a size 53? I'm thinking it should have an effective top tube in the 54-55 range, which is what I'm looking for.


you could ask the greatkeenbike.com for fm015, i ask the ms.hu.here is mail: [email protected].


----------



## schoey

Try these


----------



## texascyclist

tthome said:


> Many other boutique bike makers are simply painting these FM015's and rebadging them with their label.


Where are these boutique brands that use this frame? Are you saying Boyd is a boutique brand?!


----------



## asad137

texascyclist said:


> Where are these boutique brands that use this frame? Are you saying Boyd is a boutique brand?!


According to the Merriam-Webster dictionary definition of "boutique", yes (it doesn't necessarily imply high quality or exclusive):

"2 : a small company that offers highly specialized services or products"

Asad


----------



## T K

I'll be hesitant to buy another carbon ebay frame and may just get the scattante aluminum frame I think TK is talking about.[/QUOTE]

After much consideration I did just buy the Scattante. It's $230 delivered to my door. I think in your case, for many reasons this would be your best bet too.
I plan on doing a Caad 9 vs xrl test soon.
Good luck.


----------



## tthome

texascyclist said:


> Where are these boutique brands that use this frame? Are you saying Boyd is a boutique brand?!


Boyd Bikes is about 10 minutes from my office. If I wanted to go see this FM015 frame, all I have to do is drive over there and put my hands on it. He's sold many of these frames to local guys and I've seen them on the group rides. He also has a sharp TT frame that's being sold on ebay and alibaba as well. It's nice to be able to see the frame, get some input from serious racers/riders on their experience with it prior to purchasing. It has helped me make a decision to purchase an FM015. I typically ride a 54cm, decided to purchase the 53cm FM015 because the 55cm had me worried about standover height. I don't want the top tube too close to my jewels. I can also compensate for the smaller geometry than I can the larger size frame with longer stem and saddle setback.


----------



## martylane

schoey said:


> Try these


That helps -- thanks! It looks like the bottom one in your picture would be the 54-55 effective tt I'm looking for, but it looks, too, like a 55 c-t seat tube, which seems a bit odd for a compact frame -- I'd expect more in the range of a 52. Like the post above, I'd be concerned with stand over.

Jenny did reply to my question re: effective tt, but I don't think she understood it, and I don't speak a word of Chinese, so... Maybe I'll try mister Boyd.

FWIW, Jenny does seem very helpful, and I got a really quick response from her. Seems to be on the ball.


----------



## campLo

I placed my order with jenny on 5/7, bike shipped the following monday 5/10 and it is already in the US in customs on 5/12. 

I did try to order a frame with 3k finish and a fork with 12k finish but jenny denied me. So I just went with the complete 3k. Cant wait to see it.


----------



## thiscarcrash1

Looking at the dimensions, am i correct in saying that the FM-015 has a more compact geometry than the FM-001??


----------



## chocy

No becasue it has shorter wheel base/ TT for higher seat tube. Compact has short Seat tube to TT


----------



## thiscarcrash1

so you're saying the FM-001 has the more 'compact' geometry? (i use this as a general term) only reason i ask is because visually it looks the opposite.


----------



## DRAwpt

*My chinese TT frame*

Bad photo, but you get the idea. I like it. They need to improve a few elements, like the alignment of the FD braze-on, and possibly some kind of cable mount (à la specialized transition) for the rear brake under the BB. Other than that, it's already helped me get a podium this year.:thumbsup:


----------



## texascyclist

asad137 said:


> According to the Merriam-Webster dictionary definition of "boutique", yes (it doesn't necessarily imply high quality or exclusive):
> 
> "2 : a small company that offers highly specialized services or products"
> 
> Asad


When used in the cycling industry, boutique means Parlee, I.F., Ruegamer, Baum, Spooky, and Crumpton. No company that orders off the shelf frames with their own custom paint scheme or layup is a boutique brand. Boyd, Element 6, and pedalforce are not considered boutique brands in the industry by any stretch of the imagination. 

These frames are what they are. I like the FM015. I do not pretend that it has kryptonite in the carbon strands. It is just a nice looking bike by itself. No spin is necessary.

Has anyone been able to compare the FM015 with today's superbikes (Cannondale SuperSix, BH G5, Ridley Noah, etc)


----------



## Perico

Why was hipcheck5 banned? I looked through his posts and saw nothing worth banning. Sorry this is OT but I didn't see anywhere else to post it.


----------



## basman1

I'm considering the hong-fu fm015 as well, but I'm a little stuck on which size would be better. If anyone has some thoughts please respond. I'm 5'8.5" or around 174cm my inseam is 80cm, arm length is 61.5cm. Originally i was thinking about the 55cm but now I'm leaning more towards the 53cm.


----------



## chocy

I am 5'9 and 31.5inch inseam. 

I had same issue and I went with 53. I think I could have gone 55 but 53 is working fine with 120mm stem. so you could do either. Some days I wish I had 55 and some days I am glad I am on 53...

I would say it depends on your riding style. If you ride aggressively 53cm is better if you want more relaxed riding style 55 would be better for you.


----------



## banzaibri

I am looking at purchasing one of the Hong-Fu frames; FM015, FM001 or FM004. It seems the FM015 is the most popular, but I am curious about the ride characteristics. Any words of wisdom? My intent is to race the finished product, primarily in criteriums.


----------



## Søren A

skyline377 said:


> I think I will soon pull the trigger but can't decide if I want to get the HF-FM015 or the HF-FM010? I haven't seen anyone with the FM010 yet.


Hi
I am new here and my name is Sören and I am from Denmark.I have just recived one off these frame in the picture from jenney and i think it is good value,I get it with fork and headset.But I have a littel problem I do not know how to mount the headset,does anyone have a link or something I can have a look at.
It toke 2 dayes from china to denmark but was in custom in 14 dayes before I get it.



Sören A


----------



## Søren A

Quote:
Originally Posted by skyline377
I think I will soon pull the trigger but can't decide if I want to get the HF-FM015 or the HF-FM010? I haven't seen anyone with the FM010 yet. 

Hi
I am new here and my name is Sören and I am from Denmark.I have just recived one off these frame in the picture from jenney and i think it is good value,I get it with fork and headset.But I have a littel problem I do not know how to mount the headset,does anyone have a link or something I can have a look at.
It toke 2 dayes from china to denmark but was in custom in 14 dayes before I get it.

Sören A


----------



## basman1

chocy said:


> I am 5'9 and 31.5inch inseam.
> 
> I had same issue and I went with 53. I think I could have gone 55 but 53 is working fine with 120mm stem. so you could do either. Some days I wish I had 55 and some days I am glad I am on 53...
> 
> I would say it depends on your riding style. If you ride aggressively 53cm is better if you want more relaxed riding style 55 would be better for you.



chocy, Thanks for your feedback. I'm looking for relaxed riding not aggressive.


----------



## Bkelly

Most people bang the crown race on with a piece of schedule 40 PVC pipe. I pushed the bearing into the frame with a wood vice. there are about a million ways to skin that cat.


----------



## R1000

WOW.. pretty cool bikes here.. i'm in the looking for a new bike for the next summer phase. So already i'm looking at bikes. Having a one year old... um actuaylly nevermind, he's been pretty cheap so far... it's living in NJ that has me broke.. anyway I want to keep cost low. I have debated on whether i should repaint my bike and upgrade components (currenly have a 2005 C'dale R1000). But that might cost as much as getting something new. Plus I'm really looking for something a bit more comfortable. So obviously i'm thinking of making carbon jump.

My only problem is... I don't know the first thing about building and putting a bike together from scratch. So I don't know if these frames would be an option for me.

I'm thinkin I may just go into Manhattan and look at last years model from the large amount of LBS out there. I've been told I can get a deal on good bike in NY.


----------



## linkysys

would love to get some of your observations concerning the ride quality and aerodynamics of this bike as compared to a p3c. what is the purpose of the aluminum plate and bolts under the bb? i'm assuming they are simply a ferrule for the rear mech cable? i looked online for a detailed review of these frames and came up empty. looks like you're the man.


----------



## DRAwpt

linkysys said:


> would love to get some of your observations concerning the ride quality and aerodynamics of this bike as compared to a p3c. what is the purpose of the aluminum plate and bolts under the bb? i'm assuming they are simply a ferrule for the rear mech cable? i looked online for a detailed review of these frames and came up empty. looks like you're the man.


Not sure if you were responding to me, but here goes: I have only ridden it 3 times in the past week, so my experience is limited. The level of comfort is good. It is, however, a pretty heavy bike, at least as I have it built (YMMV). The little plate and bolts under the bb are simply where the brake mounts. The actual brake cable exits the frame further up the downtube, and is a major source of friction. the cables run very easily through conduits, but some kind of casing is needed inside them to reduce friction. My mechanic and I are still working on that. 

As far as the aerodynamics go as compared to a P3, I have no idea. I am consistently a podium placer in local TT's, and the bike didn't let me down in it's first outing, despite it not being completely dialed in yet.

A big-name brand such as Cevelo or Trek will probably have the details worked out better (such as dropout screws, angle to the front braze-on, cable stops for rear brake, etc), but keep in mind that this frame cost me about $750 to my door with an extra seatpost, dropout, a headset and a custom logo-paintjob, so a few little things are forgiveable. I know that this frame will be at least as good as my old aluminum Abici Time Machine, for which I paid the same 7 years ago.


----------



## sokudo

Søren A said:


> Quote:
> Hi
> I am new here and my name is Sören and I am from Denmark.I have just recived one off these frame in the picture from jenney and i think it is good value,I get it with fork and headset.But I have a littel problem I do not know how to mount the headset,does anyone have a link or something I can have a look at.
> It toke 2 dayes from china to denmark but was in custom in 14 dayes before I get it.
> 
> Sören A


Park Tools: http://www.parktool.com/repair/byregion.asp
And check at Sheldon Brown: http://www.sheldonbrown.com/


----------



## texascyclist

Can we get some FM015 long term reviews? I am very interested in the ride quality and stiffness of this frame. Any experienced racers?


----------



## basman1

Hi, has anyone made a payment to hongfu via western union or paypal? Which is the better way to pay?


----------



## Bridgey

Paypal as they have buyer protection.

R1000, I think you can still save money even if you get your LBS to put it together for you. Just buy everything on ebay, frame from Hongfu or ebay and you still save a packet. If you look at the park tools webite or youtube I'm sure you can do some of it yourself. Just make sure when you purchase products get the right size eg. the right front derailleur, right size seatpost, headset, etc Ask a buddy in the know how.


----------



## campLo

basman1 said:


> Hi, has anyone made a payment to hongfu via western union or paypal? Which is the better way to pay?


I payed with paypal and the frame shipped the 10th, came in today the 13th.


----------



## Sk1pp3r

Paypal for sure


----------



## martylane

Has anyone laid their hands on an FM028 yet? Looks like it's a better fit for me, though Greatkeen Tony says they're only being produced with English BB. BB30 requires MOQ of 15.


----------



## robpar

Anybody tried the greatkeen FM028? (not the TT frame; the road frame) looks like it has some similarities to Giant defy and trek madone?
Anybody?


----------



## camber66

Hello, today at me unhappy day, would wash Giant TCR advanced ISP it is damaged after criterium. Carbon fiber on downtube began to publish a crash. To me it is urgently necessary new frameset. Prompt, what inexpensive frames with ebay should be bought. I'm 6'2'' height and i like frameset with integrated seatpost and oversized to 1/1.4 lower headset. Please link to ebay seller, thanks


----------



## furry

Finally Bike build is done! Only thing is i need a new top cap/compression plug for the headset because the one that came with the frame is not making everything sit completely flush and has some movement in it. Anyone have any suggestions for a compression plug that will draw up the fork/steerer?

Thank you everyone for all the help!


----------



## campLo

Nice. Makes me thing I should of bought the 12k. Still like 3k though. Can anyone tell me where the two silver shim/washers go that came with the headset?


----------



## Mahatma Kane

Furry, for the compression plug, it sounds like you need to either add a spacer or cut 
the steerer a bit.


----------



## cdhbrad

Nice build. Before you buy another compression plug, put about 2mm of spacers under the spacer you already have on top of the stem and see if that will help you get the preload you need. If you opt for a new plug, go with the FSA, I have them on all my bikes and they work great.


----------



## berndrea

Holy Big Picture Batman!
What's with the platforms?


----------



## SBH1973

Has anyone heard of GOTOBIKE? (gotobike.com.cn)? 

They have an 870 gram Superlight frame:

http://www.gotobike.com.cn/gs_detail.asp?id=500171&nowmenuid=500006&previd=500027

Thanks!


----------



## Sk1pp3r

For all you force crank users out there, I just got some new white keo 2 max pedals that really look good with this crank on my fm015. Sorry about the lighting pic was with my phone.
<a href="https://www.flickr.com/photos/justinbethany/4613186865/" title="Force crank with look pedals by sk1ppur, on Flickr"><img src="https://farm4.static.flickr.com/3402/4613186865_a3ba37b150.jpg" width="299" height="500" alt="Force crank with look pedals" /></a>


----------



## furry

Thanks for the suggestions guys!

As for the pedals, im secretly a noob to clipless and needed something to ease into (but dont tell anybody)


----------



## wedge962005

I'm starting to consider going after one of these frames and need some help. I'm interested in a longer ride bike like a Defy, Roubaix, Z or Synapse. I've looked through this entire thread and I was unable to locate any models that seem to have the stays and headtube common to those designs. Anyone have any input?


----------



## TiCoyote

Okay, so how do you figure out which frame geometry is right for your style of riding? Do you pick out a name brand frame and then look for something that looks similar? Do any of these sellers list info like, "this one is good for climbing" or "this one is better for long, cushy rides" or "this is a speed machine"?


----------



## martylane

TiCoyote said:


> Okay, so how do you figure out which frame geometry is right for your style of riding? Do you pick out a name brand frame and then look for something that looks similar? Do any of these sellers list info like, "this one is good for climbing" or "this one is better for long, cushy rides" or "this is a speed machine"?


I think most folks here are going by the bike they currently ride, or bikes they've ridden in the past. With experience, you get to know what you want.


----------



## BlackDoggystyle

Just got an email from Tony (Greatkeen) with the message that they are relocating the factory... I'm waiting for the FM028 in 56cm. They not started making them yet...Going 2 take a few more weeks...bummer.


----------



## jimlmackjr

*Carbon TT Frame*

i read all 28 pages of the EBAY sellers carbon frame forums. 

right now i have a Gavin and i was thinking of removing my componets and installing them on a Carbon TT frame fork set. 
i think i am going to order the HF-FM029-ISP with the straight forks from 
http://www.hongfu-bikes.com

So what i am asking is can i run a TT frame for everyday ride
thanks


----------



## berndrea

Newest pics of mine, SRAM Red, FSA, Ritchey


----------



## doggatas

recieved frames this morning, busy night tonight, quality of build looks fantastic

couple of small pictures from camera phone

<a href="https://picasaweb.google.com.au/lh/photo/n4riJr48GjroDfayJo-oxw?feat=embedwebsite"><img src="https://lh3.ggpht.com/_kUy_mJ8tQI0/S_Hjf9uSOhI/AAAAAAAAAQs/YhcRZTfH6Lo/s144/IMG00012-20100518-1028.jpg" /></a>

<a href="https://picasaweb.google.com.au/lh/photo/bzc2FwbXG-28EQFdSlkKIA?feat=embedwebsite"><img src="https://lh3.ggpht.com/_kUy_mJ8tQI0/S_HjgGwtnNI/AAAAAAAAAQw/3DC2fFS7eEc/s144/IMG00014-20100518-1029.jpg" /></a>

<a href="https://picasaweb.google.com.au/lh/photo/ddGuKPZWkAVR9JuycfR4sg?feat=embedwebsite"><img src="https://lh4.ggpht.com/_kUy_mJ8tQI0/S_HjgNfCm7I/AAAAAAAAAQ0/9au8wTA865k/s144/IMG00013-20100518-1028.jpg" /></a>


----------



## Sk1pp3r

Looks good. Is that one of those monorail saddles or whatever you call it? Do you like it?


----------



## thiscarcrash1

for those of you who had your frames painted at E-hongfu, did they give you a color palette to chose from??


----------



## berndrea

the saddle is suprisingly comfy for not being padded!


----------



## doggatas

any chance of someone who has put together a fm015 posting up a diagram of how the neco headset goes together. Ive got a fair idea just looking at it but want to be right for sure


----------



## lacofdfireman

Ok, I am interested in looking into building up my own bike but am wondering if any of these companies make a 61-63cm Carbon Frame? Seems like all I see is 58's as being the largest... Can someone help me out here with a link or something to the big boy Frames... Thanks... There are some incredible builds on here... I am hoping to do a full SRAM Red build for around $2k... Thanks...


----------



## lacofdfireman

Ok, I am interested in looking into building up my own bike but am wondering if any of these companies make a 61-63cm Carbon Frame? Seems like all I see is 58's as being the largest... Can someone help me out here with a link or something to the big boy Frames... Thanks... There are some incredible builds on here... I am hoping to do a full SRAM Red build for around $2k... Thanks...


----------



## CliveDS

Ridley Damocles has a 60cm top tube and it's around $2K - great bike for a taller rider with it's oversized headset and also available with a integrated post for extra stiffness.


----------



## tthome

doggatas said:


> any chance of someone who has put together a fm015 posting up a diagram of how the neco headset goes together. Ive got a fair idea just looking at it but want to be right for sure


I just received my FM015 yesterday and checked out the NECO headset. It's a two part install. After inspection you have to remove the black top cap (says NECO in white) and you'll see another hex screw underneath the top cap (looks kinda brownish). What you need to do is to insert the compression plug in and tighten it down first. This will ensure that when you install the black NECO top cap (with silver hex cap) it will have something to pull itself down on. Don't just try to crank on the top cap and think it's going to cinch down the head tube. You have to take the black top cap off first, insert compression plug, tighten the brownish cap screw, then insert top cap (with silver cap screw) with enough room to where you can cinch everything down. Make sense I hope?


----------



## furry

Hey Thanks Tthorne, ill check that out when i get home. But when i took off my spacers and stem to look at what might be loose, i notices the top ring (not sure if thats the right name) of the headset has some movement in it.


----------



## berndrea

I think he wants a total build of 2k not just the frame


----------



## TiCoyote

jimlmackjr said:


> i read all 28 pages of the EBAY sellers carbon frame forums.
> 
> right now i have a Gavin and i was thinking of removing my componets and installing them on a Carbon TT frame fork set.
> i think i am going to order the HF-FM029-ISP with the straight forks from
> http://www.hongfu-bikes.com
> 
> So what i am asking is can i run a TT frame for everyday ride
> thanks



I think you might find that a TT frame is heavier than what you want for everyday riding. Also, they're a ***** to control on windy days. Even breezy days feel much windier with that much frame.


----------



## SBH1973

*Just got my quote from Jenny...*

...$435 for the frame and fork, but it is a 70 day wait for the FM015 BB30.

I just did the math on this. It seems that if I buy all Hungfu parts (bars, stems, etc), + shipping + a SRAM red group, I'm at $2100 - and that's without wheels. It seems that some of the carbon frame bike packages from Rosseti, Colorado Cyclist, Bikes Direct, etc, are just as, and perhaps more competitive. I'm sure the quality of the frames are the same.

In other words, there's money to be saved here, you get to build your own bike, perhaps a bit lighter (but not by much) but I'm not sure going this route is any less expensive than picking up one of the online retailer carbon bikes...


----------



## coachstevo

Just an update from a FM-001 rider (the Kredo copy). I ordered one from jenny at Hongfu last fall. Built it up, and now have about 3K miles on it. 
Most of that has been in the rain- as it was horribly rainy in CA last winter). Bike is holding up really well- no complaints. I'm a 140lb climber...so i'm not particularly hard on equipment, but the roads around my house are rough. I had the BB faced prior to build, and it was uneven- so get that done.
BIke is stable and descends predictably (i've had it up to about 45mph). Love the stiff BB area- climbing out of the saddle is a treat.
Most of my rides are 5+ hours, so long stints in the saddle are the norm-- overall feels much better than my Kona Kona Kona which was my distance bike (this one has the same build so i'm really comparing frames).


----------



## aikendrum

FM-015 frame arrived - it took 2 business days from China to Australia. I requested the 3K Black Matte finish it looks awesome  - they also painted the fork and seatpost in the same Matte finish. 
The NECO headset looks acceptable to use but I'm still debating on getting an FSA Orbit CE - their are two thin/small washers - I guess these go between the split washer ontop of the plug and the top cap - *furry/tthome *- Do you guys concur?

This will be my first carbon frame and my first thoughts were - is this going to hold me up - it weighs just over a kilo! The internal and external carbon structure looks well made - the only flaw is the BB face finish - it looks like it has been faced but may need refacing - see how we go.

As to Hongfu, Jenny is very efficient and communicates very well - I actually overpaid them US$135 on Paypal and was worried I would never see it again - on the contrary - Jenny refunded the overpaid USD$135 immediately and then processed my order - can't get better than that.
Detailed photos to follow.......:thumbsup:


----------



## willhs

@SBH1973: It kind of depends, but you make a good point.

I recommend to my non-technically-inclined friends that they go for BD or some such. But, you can get better deals than you mention on parts. I was able to pick up frame, fork, seat tube, headset, stem, and handlebars from the same ebay seller for $550 shipped, and a SRAM Red full group for $1300 before 12% bing cashback. Then wheels on sale from Flit (excellent, light wheels) for $299. Tires and tubes cheap from PBK. Total bike was about $2,300 for all carbon plus full SRAM Red and weighed 15lbs on the button for a 57cm bike. 


You will not be able to touch that kind of value and performance even through one of the aforementioned websites, but it takes a lot of work to build. But, it's nice having a bike that is exactly what I want in exactly the size I need.

It's definitely a personal decision.


----------



## tthome

ok guys...i have my FM015 now and already have built up the FM001. The headset and stinking crown race are bothering me. I saw a few pages back (page 32 or 33) where someone else had issues getting the race on the tapered tube. I saw the same little lip or edge where the race was sticking. I took it to my LBS and they had trouble with it too. They sanded the lip just a bit to get the race on. They did a great job. Now i'm home and want to see how the fork looks in the frame. I go to grab the bottom large bearing that came with the headset and it won't slide up into the frame? Are you kidding me? I have to press fit the bearing into the frame??? I'm not about press fitting a bearing into the headtube of the frame for fear of putting unnecessary stress on the head tube. Something is fishy here. Anyone else have this experience? The bearing should slide up into the frame with a little pressure but not forcefully. I'm not starting out this build as efficiently as I would like. I've built my last 4 bikes up myself and this is not the way I want to start. :mad2: 

Last ?tion to this post. If I don't use the larger headtube bearing where can I get another one that might be smaller in OD? Or is this even possible?


----------



## SBH1973

@willshs

My math might be off, but I'm coming out with $660 for carbon parts/shipping + $1495 for a BB30 Sram Red Group (how does one get the Bing cashback? How can they afford that?) This does not include wheels, tires, tubes, tape, etc. 

Can you give me the name of your Ebay seller? Does he stock BB30 frames? I'd really like to go with the FM015 since so many have given it positive reviews.


----------



## PLAYONIT

tthome said:


> ok guys...i have my FM015 now and already have built up the FM001. The headset and stinking crown race are bothering me. I saw a few pages back (page 32 or 33) where someone else had issues getting the race on the tapered tube. I saw the same little lip or edge where the race was sticking. I took it to my LBS and they had trouble with it too. They sanded the lip just a bit to get the race on. They did a great job. Now i'm home and want to see how the fork looks in the frame. I go to grab the bottom large bearing that came with the headset and it won't slide up into the frame? Are you kidding me? I have to press fit the bearing into the frame??? I'm not about press fitting a bearing into the headtube of the frame for fear of putting unnecessary stress on the head tube. Something is fishy here. Anyone else have this experience? The bearing should slide up into the frame with a little pressure but not forcefully. I'm not starting out this build as efficiently as I would like. I've built my last 4 bikes up myself and this is not the way I want to start. :mad2:
> 
> Last ?tion to this post. If I don't use the larger headtube bearing where can I get another one that might be smaller in OD? Or is this even possible?


Did you buy the HS with the frame? do you have a caliper that you are able to measure the bearing OD and the race ID?? if so what is the difference?? If I recall mine was tight and took a little finesse to get it.. try cooling the bearing in a baggie in the freezer for a bit then heat the race with a hair blow drier to warm it up then lightly squeeze the cooled bearing in.. that might help it...


----------



## doggatas

tthome

I had exactly the same issues on one of the two frames i bought. One Frame/bearing installation was faultless.

The other frame(mine) was a little more difficult! Using the caliper my lower HS bearing mount was not quite the right size, had to bore to the right diameter.

I didn't do it with the right tool, i just lightly sanded the inside of it every so slowly. by slowly i mean, a little sand then try, continuing the process till it was a snug fit like the other frame


----------



## roshea

aikendrum said:


> FM-015 frame arrived - it took 2 business days from China to Australia. I requested the 3K Black Matte finish it looks awesome  - they also painted the fork and seatpost in the same Matte finish.


Looking forward to the photos! If I get one of these, I'm interested in the matte finish.

If you don't mind telling, what was the total price including shipping ($AUS)?


----------



## aikendrum

roshea said:


> Looking forward to the photos! If I get one of these, I'm interested in the matte finish.
> 
> If you don't mind telling, what was the total price including shipping ($AUS)?


In USD
1xHF-FM015 - Frame	$355
1xHF-SP003 - Seat Post	$38
1xHF-FK007 Forks	$75
1xHF-HB003 - Handlebar	$60
Paint - Matte	$55
Shipping	$80
Total $663

Total for shipping purposes was 'one O five' usd


----------



## tthome

doggatas said:


> tthome
> 
> I had exactly the same issues on one of the two frames i bought. One Frame/bearing installation was faultless.
> 
> The other frame(mine) was a little more difficult! Using the caliper my lower HS bearing mount was not quite the right size, had to bore to the right diameter.
> 
> I didn't do it with the right tool, i just lightly sanded the inside of it every so slowly. by slowly i mean, a little sand then try, continuing the process till it was a snug fit like the other frame


I did notice when I opened the box to inspect the frame that the bottom cup of the head tube was a little tacky/sticky as if some of the clear coat might have been sprayed up into it. I noticed some air bubbles/bumps of sorts in there.

After having my bearing issue I too thought maybe I could take some sand paper and possibly ream it out a little and just enought to get it to slide in there. I haven't tried it yet but that's my next option.

As for the bearing size, on the bearing it shows something like 8 x 52dia x 40dia x 45 deg x 45 deg or something like that. This is from memory.


----------



## tthome

aikendrum said:


> In USD
> 1xHF-FM015 - Frame	$355
> 1xHF-SP003 - Seat Post	$38
> 1xHF-FK007 Forks	$75
> 1xHF-HB003 - Handlebar	$60
> Paint - Matte	$55
> Shipping	$80
> Total $663
> 
> Total for shipping purposes was 'one O five' usd


Not a bad deal. My cost is below, but I will say that I opted for a wallet friendly build. I already have Dura Ace built up FM001 and decided that for the money I would go with Shimano 105 drivetrain and Ultegra shifters for my FM015. All parts must be new or near new from ebay or craigslist or online. I also have a pair of Neuvation 2009 R28SL5 to keep the weight down. I'll be honest, I have bikes that weight 16lbs and bikes that weight 18lbs and during a long ride on flats or climbs the 2lbs difference don't enter my mind or make a big difference in the end. I would much rather save the $500+ per pound of saving in my pocket. So here is the total cost of the build up of my FM0015 (when I get it built this weekend).

FM0015 (frame, fork, headset, shipping) $475 - Hong Fu
Control Tech 42cm Aluminum Handlebar $25 (280g) - Ebay
Control Tech 100mm Stem (118g) - $18 - Ebay
Control Tech Carbon iPost Seatpost (165g) $25 - Ebay (stole it)
Shimano R700 Compact Crankset with BB / $100 - JensonUSA
Shimino Ultegra Shifters Brand New - $160 - Craigslist
Shimano 105 Black Front and Rear Derailleurs Brand New - $48 - ebay
Shimano Brake Cable/Shifter Cables - $30 for both - JensonUSA
Selle San Marco Phobos Saddle - $40 - Ebay
Neuvation R28SL5 Rear/R28SL6 Front -$300
KMC DX10SC Chain $26 - Nashbar
Black Gel Handlebar Tape - $9 - Performancebike
Black Seapost Clamp - $5 - Performancebike
Michelin Pro Race 3 - Black - Free from sister in law works at Michelin.
SpeedPlay X5 Pedals - previously owned by me aproximate value $50~
Ultegra 10 Speed Cassette - previously owned by me approximate value $50~

$1361 for this build is a great deal for a bike I anticipate will be in the 17lb range. I was very excited to get the derailleurs for $48 and the stem as cheap as I did. I have a buddy building a bike now that insists on SRAM Red (I also own a SRAM RIVAL equiped bike). He paid $420 brand new for the shifters alone. I bought a brand new set of Dura Ace shifters off craigslist 2 months ago with the protective stickers still on them for $200. C'mon people. Save your cash! I can't honestly say that I ride in a group and think "ohhhh that's a nice bike with SRAM RED or DA". I think to myself. I'm hangin with you with 1/3 the cost spent and money in my wallet, come get some!!!


----------



## campLo

PLAYONIT said:


> Did you buy the HS with the frame? do you have a caliper that you are able to measure the bearing OD and the race ID?? if so what is the difference?? If I recall mine was tight and took a little finesse to get it.. try cooling the bearing in a baggie in the freezer for a bit then heat the race with a hair blow drier to warm it up then lightly squeeze the cooled bearing in.. that might help it...


So the bearing should go in with a little bit of force? You guys arent using a headset installer or anything? Something similar to this...


----------



## literider

eBay is 8% Bing cashback, not 12%.


----------



## lenny1jz

SBH1973 said:


> ...$435 for the frame and fork, but it is a 70 day wait for the FM015 BB30.
> 
> I just did the math on this. It seems that if I buy all Hungfu parts (bars, stems, etc), + shipping + a SRAM red group, I'm at $2100 - and that's without wheels. It seems that some of the carbon frame bike packages from Rosseti, Colorado Cyclist, Bikes Direct, etc, are just as, and perhaps more competitive. I'm sure the quality of the frames are the same.
> 
> In other words, there's money to be saved here, you get to build your own bike, perhaps a bit lighter (but not by much) but I'm not sure going this route is any less expensive than picking up one of the online retailer carbon bikes...


THIS. /ENDTHREAD


----------



## tthome

Headset bearing should go in with little to NO force. Should be able to install with hands. Integrated headset, not the picture above especially on a carbon frame.


----------



## campLo

well that saved me from splitting my frame lol


----------



## furry

i think my top bearing is protruding a bit from the frame, so perhaps that where the 'play' is coming from. I guess try freezing it and pressing again?


----------



## berndrea

@everyone

Kouto Kredo Copy (frame, headset, fork) $375
SRAM Red Crank $200
SRAM Red Shifters $250
SRAM Red RD 110
SRAM Red FD 70
Ultegra Brakeset 40
Mavic Ksyrium SL 250
Carbon Saddle 55
Ritchey Seat post 60
Red Anodized Clamp 13

everything else I had to build it up

$1423, not bad, being that all the extra parts are going on the next project.
If i paid full price for everything my wallet wouldve been minus $3313.81 excluding shipping. So I am super happy with my purchase


----------



## berndrea

latest pic from mine, with sram red crank, only need red brakes and to cut the extra of the seat post, then I am done!








who wants to sell me a cheap red brake set?


----------



## furry

This worked!!!! Thank you for spelling it out!



tthome said:


> I just received my FM015 yesterday and checked out the NECO headset. It's a two part install. After inspection you have to remove the black top cap (says NECO in white) and you'll see another hex screw underneath the top cap (looks kinda brownish). What you need to do is to insert the compression plug in and tighten it down first. This will ensure that when you install the black NECO top cap (with silver hex cap) it will have something to pull itself down on. Don't just try to crank on the top cap and think it's going to cinch down the head tube. You have to take the black top cap off first, insert compression plug, tighten the brownish cap screw, then insert top cap (with silver cap screw) with enough room to where you can cinch everything down. Make sense I hope?


----------



## aikendrum

roshea said:


> Looking forward to the photos! If I get one of these, I'm interested in the matte finish.
> 
> Photos of the 58cm FM-015 - note the model number embedded into the fork FBFO???060


----------



## amkesler26

Can you guys help me figure out which frame to purchase I am a size 56 on a canondale, 6' tall, would like to purchase a HK015 frame not sure what size I should get. what do you suggest?


----------



## campLo

I just tried fitting the headset on and the bottom bearing went in with a little bit of pressure but the top bearing is a loose fit and slips in and out easily. What should I do?


----------



## gandini

Did you put pressure on the headset (like actually adjust it?) If the top race seat is tapered then it won't have play once adjusted properly. 
Good luck.


----------



## campLo

It looked like there was a bit of over spray from the finish on the bearing seat, so I sanded a little bit to smooth it out. When I put the bearing in it sits flush with the taper but sticks out about an 1/8"


----------



## tthome

campLo said:


> It looked like there was a bit of over spray from the finish on the bearing seat, so I sanded a little bit to smooth it out. When I put the bearing in it sits flush with the taper but sticks out about an 1/8"


My bottom headset bearing issue has been resolved. I bought some 220 grit sand paper and lightly sanded around the bottom headtube bearing cup (1-1/2" bearing) and was able to get the bearing to slide up into the cup with a minimal amount of effort. The bottom headset bearing fits almost perfectly flush with the frame. So that's fixed. The top bearing does sit a little higher on the frame, maybe about 1/16 of an inch or so above the headtube. I did not sand the top headset bearing cup at all but YES the issue does seem to be some clearcoat overspray getting into the headset cups and preventing the bearing from fitting perfectly. I plan to also sand inside the top headset bearing cup to make sure there everything fits flush with the bearing taper.


----------



## campLo

MY bottom bearing went up in the headtube about 1/8" or 1/4" I dont remember exactly but it was sunken in, not flush. When I put the fork on it sits nice and flush and doesnt hit the headtube at all.


----------



## tthome

campLo said:


> MY bottom bearing went up in the headtube about 1/8" or 1/4" I dont remember exactly but it was sunken in, not flush. When I put the fork on it sits nice and flush and doesnt hit the headtube at all.


I'd be interested to see that. Let's make sure we're comparing the same frame. I have a 53cm FM015. My bottom headset bearing doesn't sit up inside by 1/8 or 1/4 inch, it fits flush. When I attach the fork I can still see part of the crown race visible.

Can you take a close up picture of the spacing between headtube and fork? I might need to sand the tapered portion of the bottom headtube cup. i only sanded the outer edges of the cup so the bearing would fit.


----------



## willhs

@SBH1973: Your math may be fine. I bought from 88bikefun, but I bought the carbon parts outside of ebay in a single package as I mentioned for $550 shipped for everything. BB30 wasn't as prevalent 1 year and a half ago as it is now, and I went with the English BB (honestly, it probably doesn't make a difference). Anyway, my point is that you can negotiate for a lower price in a package deal. Find the frame that is the correct geometry overall for you, not just the best looking one with the correct downtube length.

The SRAM Red parts are more expensive than they used to be on ebay, but if you actually watch the auctions the full groups go for less than the $1495. Bing cashback can alternatively be used on buy it now items, if a cheaper one shows up on buy it now. Do a search on how to use bing cashback. I think now it's at 8%, I did it at 12%, and IIRC it got up to 20% when Microsoft was going all in against Google. It fluctuates, but it's worth using when buying this expensive of equipment.

The best advice anyone can give for ebay purchasers is to watch the auctions for a while before doing anything.

@Literider: Bing cashback is currently 8%, you are correct, but it was 12% when I bought my parts a year and a half ago.

Hope that helps.


----------



## campLo

tthome said:


> I'd be interested to see that. Let's make sure we're comparing the same frame. I have a 53cm FM015. My bottom headset bearing doesn't sit up inside by 1/8 or 1/4 inch, it fits flush. When I attach the fork I can still see part of the crown race visible.
> 
> Can you take a close up picture of the spacing between headtube and fork? I might need to sand the tapered portion of the bottom headtube cup. i only sanded the outer edges of the cup so the bearing would fit.


I'll try and snap some pics tonight. Im pretty sure it was about 1/8, 1/4 would be too deep inside. I have a 55cm FM015-SPL


----------



## Dutch77

berndrea said:


> @everyone
> 
> Kouto Kredo Copy (frame, headset, fork) $375
> SRAM Red Crank $200
> SRAM Red Shifters $250
> SRAM Red RD 110
> SRAM Red FD 70
> Ultegra Brakeset 40
> Mavic Ksyrium SL 250
> Carbon Saddle 55
> Ritchey Seat post 60
> Red Anodized Clamp 13
> 
> everything else I had to build it up
> 
> $1423, not bad, being that all the extra parts are going on the next project.
> If i paid full price for everything my wallet wouldve been minus $3313.81 excluding shipping. So I am super happy with my purchase


Hey, where did you get the red shifters at $250?


----------



## berndrea

most of my parts came from craigslist. I searched all over the country to find people who would ship. The shifters came from Hutto, TX, and I live in kirkland, wa.


----------



## Dutch77

berndrea said:


> most of my parts came from craigslist. I searched all over the country to find people who would ship. The shifters came from Hutto, TX, and I live in kirkland, wa.


Awesome deal! Good looking bike too.


----------



## tthome

campLo said:


> I'll try and snap some pics tonight. Im pretty sure it was about 1/8, 1/4 would be too deep inside. I have a 55cm FM015-SPL


I'll post some pictures later tonight of the bottom and top headset bearing in the 53cm FM015. You'll see what it should look like. i'll also take a picture showing the clearance of the fork and head tube as well as the top cap and top bearing of the headset. Pictures speak louder than words. Bottom line, my 1-1/2" bottom headtube bearing fits up inside the frame nicely. The bottom surface of the lower headtube bearing (that contacts the fork race) fits flush with the bottom of the headtube. It looks like it's supposed to.


----------



## thiscarcrash1

berndrea said:


> latest pic from mine, with sram red crank, only need red brakes and to cut the extra of the seat post, then I am done!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> who wants to sell me a cheap red brake set?


berndrea what size is your frame??


----------



## snookjones

*The new whip.*

View attachment 200415


View attachment 200416


----------



## snookjones

*The new whip prior to completion.*

View attachment 200417


----------



## karlo

@snookjones: What size is that? 58cm?


----------



## snookjones

Yes, it is a 58cm. I'm just over 6ft, probably 6'1'' and my other bikes are 56cm, but this frame, FM0015, has, if I recall correctly, a 56.5cm top tube, while in the 58cm size, only the seat tube is actually 58cm. Fits like a glove. The handling and responsiveness of the frame is impressive, too.


----------



## dmabraham

Has anyone purchased a frame from "Sunday Trade?" I found him on ebay, with zero feedback, but he claims to have been selling through alibaba and another outlet. I am thinking of purchasing an FM015 with ISP and fork through him. 

I don't have any particular reason to suspect him, more just thought it would be prudent to ask here.

Can find the ebay page here,

http://cgi.ebay.com/Seat-Post-Integrated-Carbon-Road-Frame-FM015-S-/250634590090?cmd=ViewItem&pt=Road_Bikes&hash=item3a5afc578a


----------



## berndrea

my frame is a 52cm to those who have asked


----------



## PLAYONIT

*FM015 rear brake action*

I continue to have issues getting my rear brake right. I have Zero Gravity Zero G's and the rear brake cable seems to be hanging up in the internal cable routing in the top tube.not allowing the brake to fully release...I have set the brake up per directions. Anyone else having this same issue with the 015 and if so how did you remedy it?? Any cable recommendations??


----------



## tthome

tthome said:


> I'll post some pictures later tonight of the bottom and top headset bearing in the 53cm FM015. You'll see what it should look like. i'll also take a picture showing the clearance of the fork and head tube as well as the top cap and top bearing of the headset. Pictures speak louder than words. Bottom line, my 1-1/2" bottom headtube bearing fits up inside the frame nicely. The bottom surface of the lower headtube bearing (that contacts the fork race) fits flush with the bottom of the headtube. It looks like it's supposed to.


Here are the pictures of the bearing installation as promised. i was having the problems getting the bottom headset bracket installed, but sanded the bottom bearing cup with 220 grit sandpaper and after a little sanding it fit right in.


----------



## tthome

tthome said:


> FM0015 (frame, fork, headset, shipping) $475 - Hong Fu
> Control Tech 42cm Aluminum Handlebar $25 (280g) - Ebay
> Control Tech 100mm Stem (118g) - $18 - Ebay
> Control Tech Carbon iPost Seatpost (165g) $25 - Ebay (stole it)
> Shimano R700 Compact Crankset with BB / $100 - JensonUSA
> Shimino Ultegra Shifters Brand New - $160 - Craigslist
> Shimano 105 Black Front and Rear Derailleurs Brand New - $48 - ebay
> Shimano Brake Cable/Shifter Cables - $30 for both - JensonUSA
> Selle San Marco Phobos Saddle - $40 - Ebay
> Neuvation R28SL5 Rear/R28SL6 Front -$300
> KMC DX10SC Chain $26 - Nashbar
> Black Gel Handlebar Tape - $9 - Performancebike
> Black Seapost Clamp - $5 - Performancebike
> Michelin Pro Race 3 - Black - Free from sister in law works at Michelin.
> SpeedPlay X5 Pedals - previously owned by me aproximate value $50~
> Ultegra 10 Speed Cassette - previously owned by me approximate value $50~


This is what my $1361 got me. Kept it simple black. I really like the black 105 brakes, front and rear derailleurs. I know it's a "teeeny" bit heavier than DA or Ultegra but it looks stealthy.


----------



## tarzan13

does anyone have any experience with their alu - carbon combination?

http://www.hongfu-bikes.com/Products.asp?Id=421

Thanks


----------



## ogdnut

Popper252 or anyone else,

What is the seat post clamp size for FM015? I need to buy a clamp so I have it when my frame arrives.

Thanks.


----------



## tthome

ogdnut said:


> Popper252 or anyone else,
> 
> What is the seat post clamp size for FM015? I need to buy a clamp so I have it when my frame arrives.
> 
> Thanks.


34.9 seat post clamp for FM015.


----------



## campLo

tthome said:


> Here are the pictures of the bearing installation as promised. i was having the problems getting the bottom headset bracket installed, but sanded the bottom bearing cup with 220 grit sandpaper and after a little sanding it fit right in.


Mine fits exactly the same. The only thing is my top bearing is really loose. It pops in and out with no pressure. Im not sure what to do about it.


----------



## WheresWaldo

dmabraham said:


> Has anyone purchased a frame from "Sunday Trade?" I found him on ebay, with zero feedback, but he claims to have been selling through alibaba and another outlet. I am thinking of purchasing an FM015 with ISP and fork through him.
> 
> I don't have any particular reason to suspect him, more just thought it would be prudent to ask here.
> 
> Can find the ebay page here,
> 
> http://cgi.ebay.com/Seat-Post-Integrated-Carbon-Road-Frame-FM015-S-/250634590090?cmd=ViewItem&pt=Road_Bikes&hash=item3a5afc578a


I saw him on eBay also the actual Alibaba listing is here:

Wenzhou Shangding Trade Co., Ltd.

Seems to be only a distribution company and not a manufacturer as they also have stationary and auto parts.


----------



## WheresWaldo

Has anyone found one of these China/Taiwan frames with BB30 and/or internal cable routing? EBay selection is rather small and searching Alibaba is rather futile if you are looking for anything specific.


----------



## MarvinK

tthome said:


> This is what my $1361 got me. Kept it simple black. I really like the black 105 brakes, front and rear derailleurs. I know it's a "teeeny" bit heavier than DA or Ultegra but it looks stealthy.



Why not Rival? Looks stealthy and lighter than Ultegra--cheaper, too!


----------



## dmabraham

WheresWaldo said:


> I saw him on eBay also the actual Alibaba listing is here:
> 
> Wenzhou Shangding Trade Co., Ltd.
> 
> Seems to be only a distribution company and not a manufacturer as they also have stationary and auto parts.


Thanks for the info, and ditton on Alibaba seeming overwhelming. I am trying to pick a frame to buy and build up this summer. It will be my first bike project from the frame up, and I am fully aware of all the concerns some people have with buying a chinese frame. For 500 bucks though it is a risk I am willing to take, and I just don't really see it as one.

It seems like everything on the thread here is either the FM001 Kuota clone of the FM015. I'll probably go with a FM015 of the two of those for size and looks, but then there are just SO many more frames. 

Has anyone seen or built up this one

http://shangding.en.alibaba.com/product/269211943-200235784/Super_Light_Carbon_Road_Bicycle_Frame_FM_R830SL_FK_R830.html

or several other of the FM models?

In the end I will probably choose the model that seems to have the most traffic here, and the FM015 with a BB30 and tapered head tube seems to be it.

Cheers
Dan


----------



## dmabraham

WheresWaldo said:


> Has anyone found one of these China/Taiwan frames with BB30 and/or internal cable routing? EBay selection is rather small and searching Alibaba is rather futile if you are looking for anything specific.


I think the FM015-s I linked to ebay above has all that, or at least the top tube cables are inner, and you can order either bb30 or bsa.

I dropped an email to Sunday Trade through ebay and he quoted (before shipping) for the above frame and fork set $432, and then a 95 shipping fee.

D


----------



## tthome

MarvinK said:


> Why not Rival? Looks stealthy and lighter than Ultegra--cheaper, too!


I was just too lazy to take my Rival Group off of my Felt F65. Also, the Shimano 105 brakes were $50, and the 105 Front and Rear Derailleur were $48 for both. So between the money savings buying the Shimano 105 stuff and finding out that I'm a "Shimano Guy". I chose not to. Here are some pictures of the Felt (SRAM Rival Group) and my other recent build earlier this year Raleigh Competition. The 2005 Felt Frame cost me $350 used. The 2008 Raleigh Compeition Carbon cost me $350 new. Ok so now back to the thread topic at hand..."why pay $6000 for 1 bike when you can have 4 for the same price? I think this thread now shows all 4 of my bike builds.


----------



## mjdwyer23

Can we get a carbon ebay wheels 2010 spinoff thread?


----------



## tthome

dmabraham said:


> It seems like everything on the thread here is either the FM001 Kuota clone of the FM015. I'll probably go with a FM015 of the two of those for size and looks, but then there are just SO many more frames.


Dan...I have both the FM001 and the FM015. The FM001 is very smooth frame. I typically ride the FM001 on my longer century/charity rides because it's super comfortable and has a more upright riding position. In an earlier post I have a picture of the FM015 that I built up this weekend. I haven't ridden it yet since the weather has been unpredictable.


----------



## tthome

PLAYONIT said:


> I continue to have issues getting my rear brake right. I have Zero Gravity Zero G's and the rear brake cable seems to be hanging up in the internal cable routing in the top tube.not allowing the brake to fully release...I have set the brake up per directions. Anyone else having this same issue with the 015 and if so how did you remedy it?? Any cable recommendations??


I hope i don't have the same issue PLAYONIT, but I would suggest that maybe you get some Finishline liquid lube, the one with the really small long tube that sticks in the end of the bottle and maybe put a drop or two in each end of the brake ends on the frame. this way you'll get some internal lubrication on the cables and hopefully up inside the frame guide tube.


----------



## campLo

mjdwyer23 said:


> Can we get a carbon ebay wheels 2010 spinoff thread?


We should get our own gallery thread


----------



## lacofdfireman

Thinking of doing a build for my Son.. He is 12 and would ride a 48cm. Just wondering if it might be possible to do a complete build for $1k? I already have a couple extra wheelsets so that wouldn't be a problem... I think a 105 component group would be more than sufficient for him. 

Also are most bottom brackets from an 08 or newer Shimano groupo going to fit these Chinese Carbon bikes? Thanks...


----------



## MarvinK

I'd buy an aluminum bike for a 12yr old, personally. You could save $200-350 and not have to worry as much about destroying the frame.


----------



## thiscarcrash1

i would think you could definately piece together a complete for under a grand.
especially if you're looking for a mildly used group. 
Ebay all the way, should get things done!
and 12 years old or not... i can't see a road riding child make any different mistakes that a fully grown road rider would make. besides crashing...but i doubt its his first bike.
good luck!


----------



## lacofdfireman

thiscarcrash1 said:


> i would think you could definately piece together a complete for under a grand.
> especially if you're looking for a mildly used group.
> Ebay all the way, should get things done!
> and 12 years old or not... i can't see a road riding child make any different mistakes that a fully grown road rider would make. besides crashing...but i doubt its his first bike.
> good luck!


I am not to worried about my Son riding road bikes... He has been riding Freestyle BMX for 4 years and is quite impressive on the Ramps... He want's to start riding with me which is a Dad's dream come true.. He will have to learn some rules of the road but I can bet he will keep right with me no problem on his first road bike.. He was off training wheels before his 2nd birthday and has had a love for bike's his entire life...


----------



## Rob81

My last arrived










Here my bike "garage" album
https://picasaweb.google.it/massarob/BicicletteMaggio2010#


----------



## MarvinK

I'd be on the lookout for SRAM Apex or new 105 (5700) for a new budget carbon bike. 105 is showing up a lot of places already... lighter and cheaper than 5600.


----------



## BlackDoggystyle

I realy like the 3K matt finish. I ordered the FM28 (greatkeen) in matt black... If I realylike the bike I'm gonna order a ISP spare in 3k matt.


----------



## PCMarcelino

Nice look, Rob81.

Great logo!


----------



## Jetwave

lacofdfireman said:


> I am not to worried about my Son riding road bikes... He has been riding Freestyle BMX for 4 years and is quite impressive on the Ramps... He want's to start riding with me which is a Dad's dream come true.. He will have to learn some rules of the road but I can bet he will keep right with me no problem on his first road bike.. He was off training wheels before his 2nd birthday and has had a love for bike's his entire life...


My son is 13 & I built him an Aluminum Jamis from parts from Ebay/CL, mostly new to 90% new. It has mostly Tiagra components. The bike cost about $600.00 total. I teach him how to use the gears to help him be more efficient . Last two time on our ride, he just cruised past me on a steep climb & gave me a big smile "Hi Dad, & Bye Dad" Later I found out he didn't even have to switch gear. You are right about a dad's dream to ride with your son. We used to go play golf together since he was 9. Since I lost my job, its cheaper to ride bikes, we had a great time talking sports while riding until he decide to leave me in the dust. Good luck with your build & have fun rdiding with your son.:thumbsup:


----------



## Jetwave

lacofdfireman said:


> I am not to worried about my Son riding road bikes... He has been riding Freestyle BMX for 4 years and is quite impressive on the Ramps... He want's to start riding with me which is a Dad's dream come true.. He will have to learn some rules of the road but I can bet he will keep right with me no problem on his first road bike.. He was off training wheels before his 2nd birthday and has had a love for bike's his entire life...


My son is 13 & I build him an Aluminum Jamis from parts from Ebay/CL, mostly new to 90% new. It has mostly Tiagra components. The bike cost about $600.00 total. I teach him how to use the gears to help him be more efficient. Last two time on our ride, he just cruised past me on a steep climb & gave me a big smile "Hi Dad, & Bye Dad" Later I found out he didn't even have to switch gear. You are right about a dad's dream to ride with your son. We used to go play golf together since he was 9. Since I lost my job, its cheaper to ride bikes, we had a great time talking sports while riding until he decide to leave me in the dust. Good luck with your build & have fun rdiding with your son:thumbsup:


----------



## SBH1973

*Standover for FM015 (51cm or 53cm)*

I ride a 52cm Cannondale CAAD8 and am trying to decide whether to go with the 51cm or 53cm FM015 (I am 5'7"). Does anyone know the stand-over height for either one of these? I'm leaning toward 51cm...

Thanks!


----------



## PLAYONIT

SBH1973 said:


> I ride a 52cm Cannondale CAAD8 and am trying to decide whether to go with the 51cm or 53cm FM015 (I am 5'7"). Does anyone know the stand-over height for either one of these? I'm leaning toward 51cm...
> 
> Thanks!


I am also 5'7" and have the FM015 in a 51cm stand over top center top tube to floor is 30".........


----------



## SBH1973

@Playonit - thanks! That's perfect!


----------



## Bridgey

Rob81 said:


> My last arrived
> 
> 
> 
> Here my bike "garage" album
> http://picasaweb.google.it/massarob/BicicletteMaggio2010#


Nice bike. How did you make your decals? or where did you get them from. I love the colour and font and wouldn't mind them on my bike (with my uniquie brand name of course)


----------



## Rob81

I got them here http://www.decalfont.com/ but I dont know if they send them outside Italy.
The font is SKY


----------



## ntb1001

I have my 10 year old & my 12 year old sons both riding carbon ebay frames. I built them with Campy Centur and Fulcrum5 wheels. They have ridden them and have done a couple of races each and they love the bikes, don't worry about damaging the frames, they are more than durable.
I spent between 1200 -1500 for each bike, but you could spend less if you went with some used parts.


----------



## ocag

*A little advice??*

I am hoping to buy a Hong-fu frame soon and do my own build. However, I have only done basic repairs and maintenance on my current bike, and I am not entirely confident about embarking on my own build. Does anyone have any suggestions of good books or guides on some of the basics (and hopefully details)?


----------



## berndrea

ocag said:


> I am hoping to buy a Hong-fu frame soon and do my own build. However, I have only done basic repairs and maintenance on my current bike, and I am not entirely confident about embarking on my own build. Does anyone have any suggestions of good books or guides on some of the basics (and hopefully details)?


I dont know about you. But when I grew up I played with legos. Bikes have always reminded of shiny legos, they are simple, even the derailleurs are springs and bearings! Bikes are so much fun to build. The only issue is if you have a second thought about altering the chinese frame. So parts dont fit too well such as the headsets or proper torque techniques. On my next frame I will document everything, as a how to build a chinese TT bike!


----------



## cdhbrad

Take a look at the Park Tool site. They have a repairs section that covers all the major components, such as headsets, bottom brackets, brakes, shifters, etc. They also list all the specialized tools that you will need. Actually, the Bottom Bracket tool is about the only special tool you will need as all these frames use integrated headsets and installing those don't require any tools. If, after reviewing that, you don't feel comfortable doing your own build, most LBS will do it for a fee. Mine usually charges about $100 for a build if I bring them all the parts. Haven't done that in a while as I now have all the tools I need to do it myself.


----------



## ocag

thanks!


----------



## WheresWaldo

SBH1973 said:


> I ride a 52cm Cannondale CAAD8 and am trying to decide whether to go with the 51cm or 53cm FM015 (I am 5'7"). Does anyone know the stand-over height for either one of these? I'm leaning toward 51cm...
> 
> Thanks!


Just because you can stand over the TT doesn't mean it fits. With a few simple measurements, a calculator and the specs of the frame you are looking at you can tell if a frame will work for you (size wise that is).

Look at two calculated measurements called STACK and REACH. I wrote about these on my blog located here: Another word on bike fit. 

*STACK* is the measurement from the center of the bottom bracket to the top of the head tube. *REACH* is the measurement from the center of the bottom bracket to the center of the head tube along the effective top tube line.

If your current Dale fits then you can measure Stack and Reach and match it to a new frame.


----------



## doggatas

A quick picture off the phone, will post some high res ones if people are interested..

*To OCAG or anyone else considering one of these frames:* I had a fantastic time building the bike up. I have learnt so much about bike building/maintenance. the gear change problems everyone has from time to time is a piece of piss to fix and no longer requires a service at the bike shop, in fact I'm confident i could do everything on a bike except true a wheel. Just go by this moto: *If its hard, you're doing it wrong.*

Youtube and Parktools(already mentioned) is your friend when building a bike for the 1st time.

I reckon if i had to build another bike it would take half the time it took to build this one. I thoroughly recommend anyone buying one of these frames to build the bike up themselves. It cost me 64AUS for the tool kit from Pro Bike Kit it includes everything you need to build a bike from scratch. Dont say my local bike shop will build for less than the cost of tools, what happens when you need to service it. There's your ROI right there.

It was funny, at the time i was building the bike i was watching the Giro and the commentators were talking about how much extra outer cable the pro mechanics used on the bikes equipped with SRAM Red(from the Frame to rear dérailleur) compared to campag and shim. I took notice of this and used more outer cable. I did notice a little crisper shifting.

Its a little plain, but i couldnt think of any wording i would have like on the frame.

On a side note, as far as performance fit goes it the best bike ive ridden, not only am i fairly aero on it, i dont have to try and get aero, its just a natural fit. I guess im lucky in that regard. Its a 58 FM015-SPL and im 187cm tall


----------



## bcmf

people. need info on headsets on this. I bought the fm001 and (wrongly?) assumed that the Cane Creek IS-3 would fit.top cap fits fine as does bottom bearing. The top bearing has play in it and does not sit well in the headtube.


----------



## tthome

bcmf said:


> people. need info on headsets on this. I bought the fm001 and (wrongly?) assumed that the Cane Creek IS-3 would fit.top cap fits fine as does bottom bearing. The top bearing has play in it and does not sit well in the headtube.


I did the exact same thing. You need a campy sized headset. I think I ordered the FSA Orbit CE campy headset similiar to this.

http://www.amazon.com/FSA-Orbit-Integrated-Headset-Threadless/dp/B001C5HQN6

I bought the same Cane Creek IS-3 and it didn't work but the FSA Orbit fit perfect.


----------



## tthome

doggatas said:


> A quick picture off the phone, will post some high res ones if people are interested..


I too couldn't think of any decals I would put on my plain black FM015. The white is nice, I looked at your cabling on the handlebar, I might have my eyes screwed up but are your brake cables backwards? Your right brake is for your front brake and your left is for your rear? Typically this is the other way around unless you're left handed maybe??? I'm left handed and think I would flip myself over if my front brakes were on the right side.


----------



## ausdb

tthome said:


> I too couldn't think of any decals I would put on my plain black FM015. The white is nice, I looked at your cabling on the handlebar, I might have my eyes screwed up but are your brake cables backwards? Your right brake is for your front brake and your left is for your rear? Typically this is the other way around unless you're left handed maybe??? I'm left handed and think I would flip myself over if my front brakes were on the right side.


That setup is "Normal" where I live (Australia) also have you ever ridden a motorcycle? hundreds of motorcyclists aren't doing nose wheelies because their front brake lever is on the right


----------



## tthome

ausdb said:


> That setup is "Normal" where I live (Australia) also have you ever ridden a motorcycle? hundreds of motorcyclists aren't doing nose wheelies because their front brake lever is on the right


Can't say I've ridden a lot of motorcycles, but as much riding on road bikes as I've done I can assure you I would probably flip myself on a motorcycle with the brakes being swapped. Again, nice bike...this time around, less is more in terms of decals. Don't get the impression what I was saying about your brakes was wrong, I haven't seen that setup before thus my question to you. I'm a lefty, thought maybe it was a left handed thing (minds out of gutters boys!).


----------



## bcmf

Thanks tthome. Campy headset to be ordered


----------



## campLo

as it sits right now. Waiting on the front brake and rear der. Last thing I need to get a is the shifters(sram rival) and saddle. I have no clue what saddle I want to use



















Test fitting these just to take a pic


----------



## doggatas

tthome said:


> I looked at your cabling on the handlebar, I might have my eyes screwed up but are your brake cables backwards? Your right brake is for your front brake and your left is for your rear? Typically this is the other way around unless you're left handed maybe??? I'm left handed and think I would flip myself over if my front brakes were on the right side.


Yeh mate I'm from AUS.

Front brake is always on the right side over here. The motorcycle argument is a good one. Clutch is on left so on motorcycle and right is front brake.

actually a mate recently visted a euro country and hired a bike he actually went over the bars because he went to lock up the rear wheel and hit the front brake instead.


----------



## nipsip

*www.e-hongfu-bikes.com/*

No longer there.

I also tried numerous emails to [email protected]\

So where do I get an FM-015 from now?


----------



## thiscarcrash1

i think i recall people saying this has happened before a few times...
does greenkeen sell the fm015 as well?


----------



## PLAYONIT

nipsip said:


> No longer there.
> 
> I also tried numerous emails to [email protected]\
> 
> So where do I get an FM-015 from now?


They're there... I just got on to the non E site. jenny will reply..

http://www.hongfu-bikes.com/Prclass.asp?Id=22


----------



## PoweredByBeer

So I am hoping to build up an FM-015 soon and have a couple of questions (like others here, this will be my first build ever). 

I am hoping to build the bike up with SRAM Force (off eBay). From what I have seen, a standard BB force groupset can be had for somewhere between $800 & $900. However, the groupsets I have seen with BB30 seem to be around $1000. From what you all have noticed, is BB30 really worth the extra money? Also, added to this are reports that FM-015 requested with BB30 takes weeks longer to ship... (is this correct?) To the average rider, are the gains in going to BB30 noticeable?

It also seems as if some on this forum are building up their groupsets. Assuming that I currently have no parts, does it tend to be cheaper to just buy the eBay group, or be patient and purchase group parts one by one?

Thanks to everyone who has posted to make this such a wealth of information. There are sone truely incredible looking bikes here!


----------



## tron

I have been waffling back and forth on these frames. I am thinking I might just go ahead but I want them to do some custom paint. Are there more people who have had their paint done with them with different colors then they show?


----------



## karlo

nipsip said:


> No longer there.
> 
> I also tried numerous emails to [email protected]\
> 
> So where do I get an FM-015 from now?



She is usually on MSN messenger until around 10am Central Time.

MSN: [email protected]


----------



## tthome

PoweredByBeer said:


> To the average rider, are the gains in going to BB30 noticeable?


 I'm more than a casual rider. I ride about 100 miles a week both at high speed and also light high cadnence spins. IMO, BB30 isn't as signficant advantage vs the standard English threaded BB. I opted for the standard BB for my FM015 for many reasons. The first was for practicality sake. If I need a BB I simply go to my LBS and get one and install it myself. I can install it with no special tools other than a torque wrench for proper installation. Second was cost. Most BB30 cranksets are more expensive. I'd much rather put the savings in my pocket.




PoweredByBeer said:


> does it tend to be cheaper to just buy the eBay group, or be patient and purchase group parts one by one??


 This all comes down to timing of the ebay purchases and the time you have to invest in hunting for the parts of the group. I built up a 2009 SRAM Rival bike last year, paid $650 for the whole 8 piece group. This year I cherry picked the parts off ebay and craigslist and was able to get mostly Dura-Ace parts (except crankset which was R700 compact) for about the same price but it took me 8 weeks to get exactly what I wanted. I think you might save about $100-$200 if you took the time to cherry pick, but it also depends on the group level you want to buy such as Ultegra/Dura-Ace/Force/Red...you get the idea.


----------



## berndrea

I agree with searching for deals rather buying a complete group, Im around 800ish hundred for my SRAM red group, mising cassette, no biggie tho.


----------



## nipsip

karlo said:


> She is usually on MSN messenger until around 10am Central Time.
> 
> MSN: [email protected]



Thanks, that email worked. The pricing I got for the FM015 is $400USD for the frame and fork, $15USD for the headset and $70USD for shipping. Jenny also said they could do any paint job I wanted and the price is the same for the 3K, 12K and UD gloss.

I am getting the geometry for the 55cm and will post the pdf here if anyone is interested.


----------



## martylane

thiscarcrash1 said:


> does greenkeen sell the fm015 as well?


Tony sent me a price list a couple of weeks ago that included both the FM015 ISP and non-ISP frames. You'd have to ask him what the conditions are with regards to availability.


----------



## LJM

*Carbon Rims*

Hi,

I've trawled through the posts to date and can find very little on the carbon rims available from HongFu and others. Does anybody have experience of these rims?

Thanks


----------



## SBH1973

@berndrea - $800 for a Sram Red Group minus cassette? That's amazing! I'm finding them for c.$1350 w/cassette, so that is great. Is this part by part, or have you found a seller who's selling the entire group?


----------



## berndrea

SBH1973 said:


> @berndrea - $800 for a Sram Red Group minus cassette? That's amazing! I'm finding them for c.$1350 w/cassette, so that is great. Is this part by part, or have you found a seller who's selling the entire group?


I searched ebay, craigslist, local riders. I knew how much i didnt want to spend and jumped on deals when they were on hand.


----------



## elesido

LJM said:


> carbon rims available from HongFu and others


I'd also be interested. There was a request for a spin-off thread for ebay wheels.


----------



## berndrea

build tally for the bike


----------



## luca.grigo

PLAYONIT said:


> They're there... I just got on to the non E site. jenny will reply..
> 
> http://www.hongfu-bikes.com/Prclass.asp?Id=22


Sometime i write to [email protected] and they reply me...


----------



## toolong

Any creative ideas on how to mount the planetbike rear light? The clamp takes a max of 31.8. https://ecom1.planetbike.com/3034.html is the light. I ziptied it to the ISP clamp for now. This is the best rear light i've ever used, I wont consider switching to another model.

Update: My current weight-saving "solution". Ideally I'd like to find a fat replacement clamp.


----------



## berndrea

I would use a hair tie, double loop it threw the clip


----------



## Dutch77

toolong said:


> Any creative ideas on how to mount the planetbike rear light? The clamp takes a max of 31.8. http://ecom1.planetbike.com/3034.html is the light. I ziptied it to the ISP clamp for now. This is the best rear light i've ever used, I wont consider switching to another model.


I clip mine on to the saddle bag...


----------



## doggatas

Couple more pics, including the girlfriend with seatpost and fork still to be cut


----------



## nipsip

nipsip said:


> Thanks, that email worked. The pricing I got for the FM015 is $400USD for the frame and fork, $15USD for the headset and $70USD for shipping. Jenny also said they could do any paint job I wanted and the price is the same for the 3K, 12K and UD gloss.
> 
> I am getting the geometry for the 55cm and will post the pdf here if anyone is interested.


Here is an update on the HF-015 from [email protected] at http://www.e-hongfu-bikes.com//index.php

As of June 1, 2010 - HF-015
Available in 3K, 12K, and UD gloss finish. All same price

Frame and Fork: 400 USD
Headset: 15USD
Paint Job as shown in sample (no lettering) 75USD 
Decal Set Up - 70USD
Seatpost: 36USD
Bottle cages: 2 for 25USD

Shipping is 70USD if you only get the frame, fork and headset
Shipping is 85USD if you add the seat post and bottle cages


----------



## ilovejuve

the headset bearing size for these frames is 41.8mm x 45 degree


----------



## elesido

*Karbona?*

Does anyone know if Karbona make their own frames or if they just brand them? I'm interested in this TT frame and wondered if it were available unbranded (and for chepater than through Karbona).


----------



## robpar

I'm not familiar with that manufacturer but here are a couple; close but not exactly the same:

http://www.e-hongfu-bikes.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=66&products_id=246

and maybe this one?
http://dgxtkj.en.alibaba.com/produc...e_carbon_fiber_frameset_carbon_handlebar.html

also on ebay...


----------



## elesido

Both frames are pretty close, but they don't have the down tube that curves around the front wheel...


----------



## karlo

elesido said:


> Both frames are pretty close, but they don't have the down tube that curves around the front wheel...


http://www.alibaba.com/product-gs/295701300/carbon_TT_frame.html


----------



## elesido

karlo said:


> http://www.alibaba.com/product-gs/295701300/carbon_TT_frame.html


Great! Looks like the one!


----------



## Zampano

nipsip said:


> Thanks, that email worked. The pricing I got for the FM015 is $400USD for the frame and fork, $15USD for the headset and $70USD for shipping. Jenny also said they could do any paint job I wanted and the price is the same for the 3K, 12K and UD gloss.
> 
> *I am getting the geometry for the 55cm and will post the pdf here if anyone is interested.*




I'm interested.


----------



## nipsip

Zampano said:


> I'm interested.


----------



## nipsip

nipsip said:


>


Some of the pricing has changed. I updated the original post to reflect the price increases in painting, lettering and shipping.


----------



## nipsip

*FYI - Carbon vs. Ti Price*

deleted


----------



## kreyszig666

not really relevant to this thread, imho.


----------



## diamondbicycle

*FM015 bike review*

Anyone have several months experience on a FM015 build? I'm interested in a long term review.


----------



## Bridgey

I finally have bought and built my Pedal Force CG1. 
In short: impressive. Prior to this, I owned a 15 to 20yr old alloy/carbon Giant CFR2.

CG1 Specs:
Frame size : 56 cm
Crank length : 172.5 mm
Chainring combination : 34-50T
Fork : CGF-05 Full Carbon 1-1/8"
Frame Color : UD Finish
Headset: CaneCreek Zero Stack
Crankset: SRAM Force BB30
2010 SRAM Force Components but with SRAM Red Double Tap Levers
Handlebars: Deda Newton 31.7mm Bar, 44cm
Stem: Deda Newton 31.7mm Stem, 90mm
Cassette: SRAM OpenGlide OG-1070 Cassette
Cassette combination : 11-12-13-14-15-17-19-21-23-25T
Seatpost: Velocite TLC31 31.6mm carbon 185gms (no weight limit).
Seat: San Marco Regale Racing edition.
Tyres: Michelin Pro Race 3 (not on, saving for some Aero wheels I'm building).
Wheels: Own American Classic Victory Wheels (with Conti Gatorskins on)
Computer: Sigma Rox 8: HR, Gradient and Cadence. 
Pedals: Keywin Titanium 200grms pair

Weight: 6.9kg's (minus lights, computer saddlebag). Cost approx: $3000 AUD

First impressions: I've ridden it for 2 rides so far totalling approx 140km's. I am still playing with my positioning. Can only compare it with my 9.5kg alloy/carbon Vintage Giant CFR2. In short, despite the PF CG1's super stiffness it really smooths out the road. You barely feel the road underneath you. Running over potholes (I try and avoid them) worries me as I am 98kgs at present. My old bike use to flex with the pothole to some degree. Whereas the CG1 just thuds over it without any flex whatsoever. But amazingly, I barely feel it. 

It feels like you are going slower than what you actually are. While this may seem like a disadvantage, it helps your confidence with cornering/downhill descending. Am I faster on the PF CG1? I think so. I notice the most difference sprinting uphill out of the saddle. I seem to be able to generate more power and stay out of the saddle longer. I seem to be able to get the perfect positioning. 

The SRAM drivetrain is a dream. At first the bony part at the bottom of the hoods hurt my hands a little. I tilted them a little forward and perfecto. Shifting is perfect even under load. It is great to always find that correct gear I'm looking for. I believe the compact cranks help here. I find I'm shifting a lot more than normal, but enjoy it. It keeps me alert and love hearing the feeling the loud click of the gears changing. I don't bother looking at which gear I'm in (too many to count). Just go by feel. Brakes stop my heavy body weight amazingly without skidding or throwing me over the bars. The San Marco seat is quite comfortable but will be able to judge better after my 200km hilly ride next week. Can't beat the Keywin pedals. Large platform, movement and very comfy and light. 

While I like the Plain black colour of the frame I can't stand the Pedal Force logo on front. I have decided to make and print my own decals for the bike. I am putting my family coat of arms on the front to cover the pedal force logo and using Alias or the GodFather font to create my own brandname (probably TB7 - Stands for thebridgey7 as I have 5 kids and my wife and I in my family).

Anyway, I am happy with my decision to buy OEM. Got a lot more bang for my buck. Sorry for the poor quality of my picts. Thinking about changing handlebar tape to black. What colour do you think would suit for my decals?


----------



## texascyclist

very nice, well done.


----------



## raymonda

Check your bars, they may have slipped a bit.


----------



## diamondbicycle

*FM015 Rider Review*

Can anyone tell me what they think about the ride qualities of their FM015 after having ridden it several months? I'm interested in a long-term review. - Thanks


----------



## velomateo

diamondbicycle said:


> Anyone have several months experience on a FM015 build? I'm interested in a long term review.


I have 3000 miles on mine and it's awesome...love it.


----------



## texascyclist

Velo, what kind of riding do you do? What size? Have you ridden any modern bikes that are a good comparison?


----------



## chocy

I had my bike for about 8 months now and it rides as well as when I got it. Actually better because now I understand how it rides. I do after work intervals @30 MPH + flat road to Monthly self supported century ride on this bike. Since March I have been doing 500+ miles per month. I don't know for sure but I think I put about 3000 miles at this point. I have gone through some serious pot holes going 30MPH plus down hills (I mean really bad NJ NY road surface potholes, It feels like you are going over cobble stones) and numerous short climbs. the bike is great (really stiff, stable, reasonably compliant) 

Oh did I mention that I get a lot of compliments on my bike on the road? and I ride around NYC area where Orbea, Cervelo, Seven, Colnago and any expensive bike brands are plentiful.


My bike was posted here.
http://forums.roadbikereview.com/showpost.php?p=2769769&postcount=6


----------



## PoweredByBeer

*Fm28*

So I have seen a couple of postings where interest has been expressed in the road frame FM28 from Greatkeen, but has anyone actually built one of these up yet?

I was planning on building the FM-015 but went for a bike fit yesterday and was recommended to look at a true 56 mm top tube (hence the FM28).

Anyone have any thoughts on this bike or Greatkeen in general?
Thanks!


----------



## PLAYONIT

I have been on my FM015 for a couple of months now... I mirror Chocy's comments..At first the bike felt very twitchy.. but after getting to know it the qualities come through and I couldn't be more happy.... It climbs like no tomorrow and accelerates like a rocket. getting up out of the seat and gassing it brings pretty favorable results ....even for this rookie.....


----------



## diamondbicycle

chocy said:


> I had my bike for about 8 months now and it rides as well as when I got it. Actually better because now I understand how it rides. I do after work intervals @30 MPH + flat road to Monthly self supported century ride on this bike. Since March I have been doing 500+ miles per month. I don't know for sure but I think I put about 3000 miles at this point. I have gone through some serious pot holes going 30MPH plus down hills (I mean really bad NJ NY road surface potholes, It feels like you are going over cobble stones) and numerous short climbs. the bike is great (really stiff, stable, reasonably compliant)
> 
> Oh did I mention that I get a lot of compliments on my bike on the road? and I ride around NYC area where Orbea, Cervelo, Seven, Colnago and any expensive bike brands are plentiful.
> 
> 
> My bike was posted here.
> http://forums.roadbikereview.com/showpost.php?p=2769769&postcount=6



Beautiful build Chocy and thanks for the review. Cool seat mast modification. I guess I should look at Helluvashier's posting regarding the ISP mod.


----------



## philippec

diamondbicycle said:


> Can anyone tell me what they think about the ride qualities of their FM015 after having ridden it several months? I'm interested in a long-term review. - Thanks


I'll echo Velomateo's and Chocy's comments. Light, tight and plenty of might! Raced it a few times, trained on it bunches and this week-end just took it out for its first alpine excursion. Cannot say enough good about the frame so far - stable and straight on 90+ km descents and as responsive and comfortable as my previous Look . Other bikes I've ridden that this compares favourably to include Cervelo, Look 585 and Litespeed Titanium. One happy camper here so far --


----------



## j4son

my first build. good times!

<img src=https://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y79/j4son/CIMG0736.jpg>
<br>
<img src=https://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y79/j4son/CIMG0744.jpg>


----------



## Rob81

Just 2 pics, Fm015 ISP in action (GF Gimondi, I won my cat).


----------



## slabber

ansetou said:


> I finally received the frame and fork for my wife's x-small bike 48 seat tube 510 mm H top tube.
> 
> sram force group w/ red 165 mm crankset
> blackset 1421 gram wheelset from bww
> 
> it should come out to be under 14.5 lbs. if all manufactures weight numbers are close to real.


*ansetou, *any updates? 

I'm looking at buying a frame currently and had looked at this model for myself - I need a ~48cm with short top tube. If this the frame I think it is, it's got quick a slack head tube angle, ~69.5 degrees I think? Is that what you purchased? If so, how does it ride, assuming it's built up and your wife is riding it now?

I'm probably going with a FM015 myself - it's listed as having a 504.5mm top tube in the 49cm size. Just sorting out a package price with HongFu. I've seen some variation in pricing recently so want to ensure I get the best price possible.


----------



## diamondbicycle

*FM015 feedback*

Thanks for the feedback and pics Playonit, Philippec and Rob81. It's good to hear all this positive feedback. Anything negative you have found about the frame that has been an issue?

DiamondBicycle


----------



## philippec

Yes. 


After I bought one, I liked it so much I bought another one. That was an extra 300€ I hadn't figured on spending!



Next year, our team is making a group order of these for the 2011 season.


----------



## ljfran2383

PoweredByBeer said:


> So I have seen a couple of postings where interest has been expressed in the road frame FM28 from Greatkeen, but has anyone actually built one of these up yet?
> 
> I was planning on building the FM-015 but went for a bike fit yesterday and was recommended to look at a true 56 mm top tube (hence the FM28).
> 
> Anyone have any thoughts on this bike or Greatkeen in general?
> Thanks!


I ordered one, it should ship on june 16. I got the ISP in 12k.


----------



## jeffxxxwhiteford

Hey. First post

Just recieved my ltk-006 ISP frame for LT bike company in china. Frame is almost identical to the ones discussed here, geo charts may even be done by the same company.

Anyways, I have a issue with my headset race fitting on the crown. Is this a common problem? Should I just give it a little hit with some sand paper to make it fit? It is only missing my a super small amount.

Cheers


----------



## ljfran2383

jeffxxxwhiteford said:


> Hey. First post
> 
> Just recieved my ltk-006 ISP frame for LT bike company in china. Frame is almost identical to the ones discussed here, geo charts may even be done by the same company.
> 
> Anyways, I have a issue with my headset race fitting on the crown. Is this a common problem? Should I just give it a little hit with some sand paper to make it fit? It is only missing my a super small amount.
> 
> Cheers


Yes, sand with fine grit sandpaper, 600 or up. Also, you can freeze the bearing before attempting to install it, it will contract a tiny amount so it is a better fit.


----------



## basman1

hi, I recently received my FM 015 frame and other parts. I have the BB30 version and my question relates to those of you who installed Sram Force BB30 cranks. How many spacers on the non drive side did you use?

My other question if anyone knows from experience does this particular frame require the use of retaining clips on the inner side of the bearings. I was speaking to a bike mechanic at a LBS and he said some frames may not use a retaining ring.


----------



## HeluvaSkier

The BB30 frames use a retaining clip. They install really easy.


----------



## basman1

Thanks Heluvaskier. Just need a headset press to push them in.


----------



## jeffxxxwhiteford

ljfran2383 said:


> Yes, sand with fine grit sandpaper, 600 or up. Also, you can freeze the bearing before attempting to install it, it will contract a tiny amount so it is a better fit.


Sorted the race, but now the lower bearing wont fit into the headset cup. Is that why you are sugesting freezing the bearing? If I get it in like that, chances are it will never come out.... could be trouble. Any other suggestions?


----------



## motoricker

> my question relates to those of you who installed Sram Force BB30 cranks. How many spacers on the non drive side did you use?


On a PedalForce QS3 I started out with NO spacer (just the wave washer). That left it compressed, but lightly. About a month later I redid it with ONE plastic spacer (and the wave washer) That leaves the wave washer almost completely, but not quite, flattened. 

I am not sure which is better, but I figure that as long as the wave washer is not completely flattened, it is OK. Both worked fine.


----------



## tthome

jeffxxxwhiteford said:


> Sorted the race, but now the lower bearing wont fit into the headset cup. Is that why you are sugesting freezing the bearing? If I get it in like that, chances are it will never come out.... could be trouble. Any other suggestions?


Jeff...had the same exact issue with not getting the bottom headset bearing in smoothly. My solution fixed it and I can slide the bearing back out with a little wiggle. Here is a link to the post back a few pages.

http://forums.roadbikereview.com/showpost.php?p=2790016&postcount=871


----------



## elesido

*Relaxed position*

Does anybody know what frame has the most upright/relaxed riding position?


----------



## ljfran2383

elesido said:


> Does anybody know what frame has the most upright/relaxed riding position?


A few of the geometry sheets are posted in this thread somewhere, but you can ask manufactures for their geo sheets for the bikes and decide for yourself. Do some searching and educate yourself on frame geometry and how it makes bike feel/ride/react.


----------



## Rob81

I guess Fm028 and Fm01


----------



## daveydave

Looking to hear from you FM 015 frame folks. I'm about to pull the trigger on an 015 and was wondering what geometry this frame (s) model most resembles in geometry. 

Seat Tube = 530
Top Tube = 529.5

It would be nice to hop on something similar in geometry before actually making the purchase. 

D


----------



## ljfran2383

> Looking to hear from you FM 015 frame folks. I'm about to pull the trigger on an 015 and was wondering what geometry this frame (s) model most resembles in geometry.
> 
> Seat Tube = 530
> Top Tube = 529.5
> 
> It would be nice to hop on something similar in geometry before actually making the purchase.


Need angles too...


----------



## alarum

I ordered my FM015 today in 58cm, 3k finish. I plan on finishing it with some an Ebay carbon stem and handlebars, Easton EA90 SLX's, and SRAM Force.. I'll post some pics when done..


----------



## slabber

I'm planning to order a 49cm FM015 in 3k finish from Great Keen. Their retail pricing appears to be better than Hong Fu. Perhaps they _are_ the manufacturer...


----------



## bonz50

read thru this entire thread, any reason there is very little if any info on the HF-FM010 frameset??

seems like everyone is focused exclusively on the 001 and the 015's...

anyone that can make a comparison between each and a known brand/model just for frame of reference... earlier someone mentioned that the 001 was similar to the roubaix and the 015 to a cervelo or a madone... where does the 010 fall in comfort/handling wise??

edit - would be nice to see a summary page that ID's each of the major generic models and the approximate clone of the major brands that equate to them... or even to know which of the hong fu frames are roughly the same as the greatkeen frames and etc... maybe i'm asking to much... who knows...


----------



## ljfran2383

Got some interesting info for you all. Check out Boyd's Bikes, he is selling the FM-015, painted and with a warranty. just depends it a warranty is worth $400. He claims the frame weighs 980g, non ISP. Seems a little off the 1200g claim from the manu. He also offers wheels that are built with china rims, at a really competitive price and weight. I'm really tempted to try them out.

Greetkeen offers everything hongfu offer at a lower price. and when talking to greatkeen, I asked about a BB30 ud fm028, he said that he could get them made but required a minimum order. also greatkeen's lead times were shorter than what jenny at hongfu qouted me. Maybe greatkeen is the manufacturer?


----------



## slabber

Someone else posted earlier that greatkeen is the only co. that accepted/offered to provide a factory tour - I expect they are the manufacturer for sure.

I'll post details on my order once finalized.


----------



## ilovejuve

this is my baby. flies like a rocket. corners like a prostitute. this is after my first race with her. won it btw. i immediately sold my pinarello fp3. gonna buy the fm015 and some easton ec90tt wheels with the money!!!


----------



## Dutch77

ilovejuve said:


> this is my baby. flies like a rocket. corners like a prostitute. this is after my first race with her. won it btw. i immediately sold my pinarello fp3. gonna buy the fm015 and some easton ec90tt wheels with the money!!!


So in your history you claim you got a Noah in Februay and that you were riding a Cervelo, and now you are going to sell your Pinarello?

Something tells me some of the posts in this threads are slightly fishy


----------



## daveydave

ljfran2383,

thanks for the earlier information. 

I see the F101 available at boydbikes.com - but I don't see the F015 for $400. Was the listing somewhere other than the website?

Dave


----------



## vo2maxcarbon

I bought a Velo Vie Vitesse 300SE online just recently that I thought was a great deal. The bike has amazed me in every way. I have raced on all sorts of bikes and I can't think of one that has made me happier when I stack up cost to own to performance. My full SRAM RED bike with FSA cockpit and Reynolds Solitude wheels was only 2650 complete. I had to call to find this special as it is one they use with the Life Time Fitness program they have but they were more than happy to set me up. Since I have sold my Cervelo but kept my 66 wheels (so fast) and have not looked back. Online bikes keep getting better and better.


----------



## Dutch77

vo2maxcarbon said:


> I bought a Velo Vie Vitesse 300SE online just recently that I thought was a great deal. The bike has amazed me in every way. I have raced on all sorts of bikes and I can't think of one that has made me happier when I stack up cost to own to performance. My full SRAM RED bike with FSA cockpit and Reynolds Solitude wheels was only 2650 complete. I had to call to find this special as it is one they use with the Life Time Fitness program they have but they were more than happy to set me up. Since I have sold my Cervelo but kept my 66 wheels (so fast) and have not looked back. Online bikes keep getting better and better.


Can you tell us more about what bikes you've ridden and owned in the past? 
Racing experience?

Only other posts links to a retul kit on ebay being sold by... surprise! Velo Vie!

In case you were wondering I'm calling you out as a Velo Vie shill...


----------



## ljfran2383

daveydave said:


> ljfran2383,
> 
> thanks for the earlier information.
> 
> I see the F101 available at boydbikes.com - but I don't see the F015 for $400. Was the listing somewhere other than the website?
> 
> Dave


I think you misunderstood me. The b101 is the "boyd" version of the FM015, it is the same frame, The F015 can be had from greatkeen for $400. Boyd charges 900.


----------



## daveydave

Thanks - I was confused until you explained. 

dave



ljfran2383 said:


> I think you misunderstood me. The b101 is the "boyd" version of the FM015, it is the same frame, The F015 can be had from greatkeen for $400. Boyd charges 900.


----------



## slabber

ljfran2383 said:


> Got some interesting info for you all. Check out Boyd's Bikes, he is selling the FM-015, painted and with a warranty. just depends it a warranty is worth $400. He claims the frame weighs 980g, non ISP. Seems a little off the 1200g claim from the manu. He also offers wheels that are built with china rims, at a really competitive price and weight. I'm really tempted to try them out.
> 
> Greetkeen offers everything hongfu offer at a lower price. and when talking to greatkeen, I asked about a BB30 ud fm028, he said that he could get them made but required a minimum order. also greatkeen's lead times were shorter than what jenny at hongfu qouted me. Maybe greatkeen is the manufacturer?


Keep in mind that Great Keen does have a warranty on their frames - 2 years. 

Might be a bit more problematic sorting out a claim long distance though... Not that Boyd is local to everyone either.


----------



## ilovejuve

yup i rode all the best, but quite frankly i was appalled that i paid so much money when i could have gotten a fm015 that rides just as well at a fraction of the cost


----------



## ljfran2383

ilovejuve said:


> yup i rode all the best, but quite frankly i was appalled that i paid so much money when i could have gotten a fm015 that rides just as well at a fraction of the cost


A blind study would be bad-a##. I'm not sure if one convinces themself that a bike rides awesome because it was expensive or if people tell them selves that the cheap bike is as good as the expensive to justify not riding the "sick" bike.


----------



## ljfran2383

slabber said:


> Keep in mind that Great Keen does have a warranty on their frames - 2 years.
> 
> Might be a bit more problematic sorting out a claim long distance though... Not that Boyd is local to everyone either.


Really? AWESOME 

Cant wait to get mine!:23:


----------



## basman1

slabber, when I was getting prices from Jenny @ hongfu and tony @ Greatkeen, Tony had the better price but in the end he did not have the product and could not get a BB30 frame without a minimum order. Jenny could not match his price and indicated that Tony was Hongfu's "trader". So who is the manufacturer? I'm not sure. One more thing, for all of you that received your frame in "record time" 2 days, 5 days... I say lucky you. Mine took 2 weeks. 8 days from China to Vancouver about 36 hours to clear customs and the remainder of the time to ship it east to Toronto


----------



## daveydave

2 weeks - as long as i was happy with the end product, I probably wouldn't complain. Did your delay have anything to do with the Volcano? 

Dave



basman1 said:


> slabber, when I was getting prices from Jenny @ hongfu and tony @ Greatkeen, Tony had the better price but in the end he did not have the product and could not get a BB30 frame without a minimum order. Jenny could not match his price and indicated that Tony was Hongfu's "trader". So who is the manufacturer? I'm not sure. One more thing, for all of you that received your frame in "record time" 2 days, 5 days... I say lucky you. Mine took 2 weeks. 8 days from China to Vancouver about 36 hours to clear customs and the remainder of the time to ship it east to Toronto


----------



## tthome

slabber said:


> Not that Boyd is local to everyone either.


Boyd bikes is based out of Greenville, SC (Home of Big George Hincapie) and is about 5 miles up the road from me. I see his branded bikes on my Tuesday group rides all the time. They look very nice. I have an FM001 and an FM015 and I honestly love taking my FM015 bike out with the guys who bought the Boyd painted bikes and privately bask in my $400+ savings. Personally I'd much rather spend $400 on the unpainted FM015 than pay more than double for a painted version with warranty. If something happens to the first one, I'll just buy another.


----------



## mdime

> Mine took 2 weeks. 8 days from China to Vancouver about 36 hours to clear customs and the remainder of the time to ship it east to Toronto


Lucky you. I placed my order with Hongfu two weeks ago and my ship date isn't until July 5th. At least it gives me more time to get the parts together.


----------



## slabber

I'm getting ready to place my order with Great Keen...

My question is on seatposts. Which seatposts did you guys choose?

They don't have the Hong Fu with aluminum side clamps but a couple of single bolt posts plus the two bolt micro adjust which is considerably heavier. I'm leaning towards the 2 bolt post for now as I am confident it will provide infinite adjustment but wondered about people's experiences with the single bolt posts...

Are they micro adjust? Looks like there's ridges under the clamp - do these bite into the post itself to fix the position? Can anyone post closeup photos so I can better understand the fit/quality of the seat clamp?

TIA.


----------



## Bridgey

Check out the Velocite TLC31 http://www.cycletaiwan.com/shop/ind...roduct_id=251&option=com_virtuemart&Itemid=53

I bought this as it was cheaper than name brands but better in that it only weighs 185gms and has a no rider weight limit. It is microadjustable. It's been awesome on my PedalForce CG1 (I am about 220 pounds).


----------



## slabber

Thanks Bridgey,

Same post here for $10 less: http://cgi.ebay.ca/ALERO-3K-CARBON-...ccessories?hash=item53e1adec0b#ht_4766wt_1096 

yah, not sure what I want to get just yet - the posts from the frame sellers are only around $30 and under 200g but I don't know if the tilt mechanism is very good...


----------



## basman1

daveydave, i received my frame last monday. it had nothing to do with the volcano. other than some cosmetic blemishes in the 12k weave overall I am pleased with the product


----------



## ilovejuve

does anyone have a proper email address for greatkeen? i want to order their fm101 (sweeeet) but i get no response using the email addresses on their website.


----------



## ljfran2383

> does anyone have a proper email address for greatkeen? i want to order their fm101 (sweeeet) but i get no response using the email addresses on their website


find deng fu sports on alibaba.com. they are the same seller as great keen, and apparently the manufacturer. use the chat function, the sales guy's name is Tony Wang. english isn't perfect, but he can get you what you need.


----------



## bonz50

has anyone used some of the factory paint options from greatkeen??


----------



## slabber

I'm going to get a custom color from greatkeen - will advise and post pics when it arrives...

I've also changed my mind and will plan to get a BB30 frame now instead of english BB... I'll just use a BB30 adapter for now with my current crankset and bb. 

I think I'm going to solve my seatpost dilemma by going with an ISP frame too.


----------



## road rash

*which weave?*



philippec said:


> Yes.
> 
> 
> After I bought one, I liked it so much I bought another one. That was an extra 300€ I hadn't figured on spending!
> 
> 
> 
> Next year, our team is making a group order of these for the 2011 season.


Philippec,
Love the graphics on your Hong Fu frame. Which weave did you get? Looks like 12k? And why did you choose what you did? Thanks


----------



## slabber

basman1 said:


> slabber, when I was getting prices from Jenny @ hongfu and tony @ Greatkeen, Tony had the better price but in the end he did not have the product and could not get a BB30 frame without a minimum order. Jenny could not match his price and indicated that Tony was Hongfu's "trader". So who is the manufacturer? I'm not sure. One more thing, for all of you that received your frame in "record time" 2 days, 5 days... I say lucky you. Mine took 2 weeks. 8 days from China to Vancouver about 36 hours to clear customs and the remainder of the time to ship it east to Toronto


hi *basman1*, just saw your post, missed it earlier. Interesting info - yah, I'm thinking GreatKeen isn't necessarily the manufacturer either but the better pricing is attractive. 

After all the flipping back and forth, I've decided to go BB30 and non-ISP. BB30 adapters are available so I can run my existing cranks and BB for now. Non-ISP so I can retain "packability". Hopefully, a 49cm BB30 non-ISP will be in stock and won't take too long to get to me in Ottawa :yesnod: 

Just waiting on an invoice at this point.


----------



## philippec

road rash said:


> Philippec,
> Love the graphics on your Hong Fu frame. Which weave did you get? Looks like 12k? And why did you choose what you did? Thanks


Thanks.

For the first frame I got the 12k weave because that was what was readily available (no wait). The second frame is in 3k weave -- I hear that that weave is more vertically compliant yet laterally stiff ...


----------



## Bridgey

slabber said:


> I'm going to get a custom color from greatkeen - will advise and post pics when it arrives...
> 
> I've also changed my mind and will plan to get a BB30 frame now instead of english BB... I'll just use a BB30 adapter for now with my current crankset and bb.
> 
> I think I'm going to solve my seatpost dilemma by going with an ISP frame too.


Becareful. I'm not sure if you can use a BB30 adapter and then take it out again. I think you have to glue it in properly. I have BB30. So far it is good. But I would be happy using the old square tapered BB. Makes nil difference. In fact the seals on the bearing of the BB30 stop the cranks from spinning freely like on the old square tapers. Don't think it slows you down though and hopefully will free up in time.


----------



## slabber

Bridgey said:


> Becareful. I'm not sure if you can use a BB30 adapter and then take it out again. I think you have to glue it in properly. I have BB30. So far it is good. But I would be happy using the old square tapered BB. Makes nil difference. In fact the seals on the bearing of the BB30 stop the cranks from spinning freely like on the old square tapers. Don't think it slows you down though and hopefully will free up in time.


I understand it needs to be loctited in but that it can be pushed out again after as well... 

I may just go with whatever is readily available for now. My current setup is pretty light and the adapter would just add weight (RaceFace taperlock Ti BB, Ti crank bolts with older Ultegra crankset, alloy chainring bolts).


----------



## daveydave

FYI - I got a quote back yesterday from jenny. I don't have the prices in front of me, but it was roughly $500 delivered for F015 frame / fork & headset. 

My only issue was wanting a the BB30 option. I was told 70 days to wait on that. That's an issue. I ride in New England and it makes more sense to wait out the winter and see what else comes around, or use the money on a cross bike. 

What's the turn around on BB30 from Great Keen? Any different from their standard F-15 model? Less than 70 days?

dave


----------



## ljfran2383

i do believe the wait time is less than 70 for greatkeen. but they cannot get bb30 on the fm28 without a group buy. Kinda sucks, I wanted bb30.


----------



## jeffxxxwhiteford

Nearly finished. Just got to put the chain on and have the gears tuned. Looks the biz, lets hope it rides nice


----------



## kaban

where can I find full high profile wheelsets at reasonable price from china/taiwan ?


----------



## kiwisimon

kaban said:


> where can I find full high profile wheelsets at reasonable price from china/taiwan ?


contact hong fu sports.


----------



## luca.grigo

kaban said:


> where can I find full high profile wheelsets at reasonable price from china/taiwan ?


Contact Yishun Trade
http://yishuntrade.en.alibaba.com/p...ls_carbon_road_wheels_carbon_bike_wheels.html

They have real good wheelset for a reasonable price


----------



## mjdwyer23

Any way to search by MOQ? I see lots of 5's and 10's but haven't found any clinchers for MOQ of 1. Thanks for the link.


----------



## ljfran2383

jeffxxxwhiteford said:


> Nearly finished. Just got to put the chain on and have the gears tuned. Looks the biz, lets hope it rides nice


What wheels are those?


----------



## Sebastionmerckx

jeffxxxwhiteford said:


> Nearly finished. Just got to put the chain on and have the gears tuned. Looks the biz, lets hope it rides nice


I've never been a fan of all of the no name Ebay frames but....Wow,that's pretty nice :thumbsup:


----------



## luca.grigo

Yishun sells even Moq 1, so contact them if you want... [email protected]

Later I'll send photos... now I'm at work


----------



## slabber

Ok, just placed my order with HongFu for a 49cm non-ISP FM015 in 3k weave, matte finish. 

Supposed to ship within 3 workdays which could be as late as Monday as it's already Thurs AM there now. 

Looking forward to it... will post pics when it arrives. I'm planning to do a bit of finish work on the frame when I get it with 303 Protectant and a wax job. Then I'll apply some 3M paint protection film on the appropriate parts. 

What have folks been doing with their driveside chainstays?


----------



## tron

Can someone post or pm me the measurement specs for a non-ISP FM015? I have emailed and asked Jenny three times but she always seems to forget. I am 5'11 and usually ride a 54 or 56. I am looking for a tt with about a 55.


----------



## ljfran2383

slabber said:


> Ok, just placed my order with HongFu for a 49cm non-ISP FM015 in 3k weave, matte finish.
> 
> Supposed to ship within 3 workdays which could be as late as Monday as it's already Thurs AM there now.
> 
> Looking forward to it... will post pics when it arrives. I'm planning to do a bit of finish work on the frame when I get it with 303 Protectant and a wax job. Then I'll apply some 3M paint protection film on the appropriate parts.
> 
> What have folks been doing with their driveside chainstays?


3M Paint protective film works great, I have a huge roll of it. There are also generic kits for frames with a chainstay protector and a few circles for the spot where you generally get cable rub.


----------



## ljfran2383

tron said:


> Can someone post or pm me the measurement specs for a non-ISP FM015? I have emailed and asked Jenny three times but she always seems to forget. I am 5'11 and usually ride a 54 or 56. I am looking for a tt with about a 55.


Someone posted the geo sheet for the 56 earlier in the thread. You could ask for the sheet from any of the other suppliers on alibaba.com that has the same frame.


----------



## mjdwyer23

luca.grigo said:


> Yishun sells even Moq 1, so contact them if you want... [email protected]
> 
> Later I'll send photos... now I'm at work


Contacted them last night and have been exchanging emails, fast communication for sure. I am looking at a 60/85 clincher set, they have it in 3k gloss but I was hoping to get UD.


----------



## tatch14

*frames*

Can anyone tell me the difference between the 12k carbon and 3k carbon on these frames?


----------



## slabber

tatch14 said:


> Can anyone tell me the difference between the 12k carbon and 3k carbon on these frames?


The difference is cosmetic - it's just the top layer.


----------



## robpar

ljfran2383 said:


> Someone posted the geo sheet for the 56 earlier in the thread. You could ask for the sheet from any of the other suppliers on alibaba.com that has the same frame.


 the Fm 55cm has a 548 TT and the 58cm has a 568 TT; had the same problem: in-between sizes...
look at the FM028 from greatkeen; it has a 560 TT; I'm looking at it currently.... can't get feedback though; not too many people have it.
To me it looks a lot like a Madone clone; almost exactly. Similar head tube, similar geo, except the seat tube...
Any opinions?


----------



## ljfran2383

robpar said:


> the Fm 55cm has a 548 TT and the 58cm has a 568 TT; had the same problem: in-between sizes...
> look at the FM028 from greatkeen; it has a 560 TT; I'm looking at it currently.... can't get feedback though; not too many people have it.
> To me it looks a lot like a Madone clone; almost exactly. Similar head tube, similar geo, except the seat tube...
> Any opinions?


I wouldn't say exactly, although the styling of the headtube and top tube are similar.

Similiar geometry is kinda questionable. most bikes are fairly close.

I ordered this frame in a 54, It should have shipped wednesday, but we will see when it gets here.


----------



## tatch14

*ride quality*

Can anyone give a more detailed response on how these frames ride? Maybe a better comparison between another well known brand.

I am seriously considering one of these frames, as I have a cracked Felt. I don't have a lot of money to replace it I thought I would try one of these. 

I am in between the 55 and 58.. anyone have a suggestion?

thanks in advance!


----------



## mjdwyer23

Which ones? My PF RS2 is just as stiff and responsive as my S-Works SL2 was with slightly more stable handling.


----------



## tatch14

*frame*

Your PF2? I cant seem to find that model on either the keen website or yishun site..
Could post the link to where you purchased your frame?


----------



## mjdwyer23

Pedal Force RS2, not sure which generic model it is. I've definitely seen it other places though.


----------



## bonz50

mjdwyer23 said:


> Which ones? My PF RS2 is just as stiff and responsive as my S-Works SL2 was with slightly more stable handling.


I think he's asking about how the 001, 028, 015, 010, or any of the other models ride... as I noted a few days back, it seems as though the only frames ever really talked about are the 001 and the 015... I'd really like to know more about the others as well... specifically the 010 (pinarello looking clone)... :thumbsup:


----------



## HeluvaSkier

For those asking about the other frames and how they ride, check out last year's "Hasa eBay frame" thread. The only frame not really talked about much was the FM015 because it was not really available yet. I suspect the 028 will be like that this year.


----------



## rruff

robpar said:


> the Fm 55cm has a 548 TT and the 58cm has a 568 TT; had the same problem: in-between sizes...
> look at the FM028 from greatkeen; it has a 560 TT; I'm looking at it currently.... can't get feedback though; not too many people have it.


The FM028 is the one I'd get. People seem to like to follow the herd, but that doesn't make the FM015 a better frame. 

Regarding the sizes, larger ones trend toward slacker seat-tubes, so the difference in reach is less than the difference in TT length. But even if the difference in reach was 20mm, that is *very* easily compensated for by stem. For instance, if your ideal is a 558 TT with a 110mm stem, you could run the bigger frame with a 100mm stem,. or the small one with a 120mm stem. Handlebars and shifters have varying reach as well. The important thing is to get in the ballpark and compensate correctly with the other parts.

IMO the most important aspect to get right is the headtube length, since this controls how high your bars are, and is more difficult to compensate for and still look ok... ie you can always flip your stem up and have a stack of spacers to get the bars higher, but this looks dorky. So if you like the bars kinda high relative to the seat, the bigger frame might be better, or if you like them low, the smaller frame.


----------



## bonz50

HeluvaSkier said:


> For those asking about the other frames and how they ride, check out last year's "Hasa eBay frame" thread. The only frame not really talked about much was the FM015 because it was not really available yet. I suspect the 028 will be like that this year.



I read that thread extensively, I saw ONE person build an 010 frame (lalahghosts or something like that)... and was but about 2 posts about it... wish more had some input on that frame... it just looks so sexy...


----------



## coachstevo

I just ordered a FM028, so will let you all know over the next couple of weeks and months how it works out.

The geometry looks almost identical to a Madone w/ Performance fit


----------



## robpar

coachstevo said:


> I just ordered a FM028, so will let you all know over the next couple of weeks and months how it works out.
> 
> The geometry looks almost identical to a Madone w/ Performance fit


Please let me know how it works out and post pictures... I agree, it looks VERY much like a madone performance fit


----------



## physasst

elesido said:


> Does anyone know if Karbona make their own frames or if they just brand them? I'm interested in this TT frame and wondered if it were available unbranded (and for chepater than through Karbona).



FWIW, Karbona's wheelsets are teh bomb......I am buying a couple of sets here soon. They've got some kickass stuff on their website too...


----------



## luca.grigo

mjdwyer23 said:


> Contacted them last night and have been exchanging emails, fast communication for sure. I am looking at a 60/85 clincher set, they have it in 3k gloss but I was hoping to get UD.


Good. I've bought 38mm tubular, with very nice performance and very low price. Let us know your review if you buy them! :thumbsup:


----------



## BlackDoggystyle

I ordered the FM 28 half April and still waiting.

I ordered in Matt black and funny they just got new pictures of the frame...in Matt black  


ISP










NON-ISP


----------



## rruff

That's my favorite! But why is it taking so long for you to get it?


----------



## BlackDoggystyle

I paid 14th of April and been thold it would be ready to ship end of the month (end April). 2 weeks into May I send an email with the question when the bike would be ready to ship. End of May I was told, because of factory relocation...owkey I said...

Yesterday.....I send an email with the same question I asked a month ago...same reply...end of the month...because of factory relocation...but this time with a very sincere apology.

So..thats why... :cryin:


----------



## robpar

Did you order from Greatkeen? if not; from whom?


----------



## BlackDoggystyle

From GreatKeen (Tony)


----------



## mazho

How much does FM 28 cost?


----------



## BlackDoggystyle

390usd for frame and fork and seat post with clear coating;
85usd for shipping cost for shipping to European country. I think to the US the shipping is a bit less expensive.


----------



## robpar

BlackDoggystyle said:


> From GreatKeen (Tony)


OK, I have been in touch with him... Just waiting to get some feedback before I pull the trigger.


----------



## gjknorr

BlackDoggystyle said:


> From GreatKeen (Tony)


That's interesting my order has been delayed also but by HongFu for the same reasons, factory relocation. I ordered a 015 with UD finish and BB30 through Jenny, and sent an email last week to see if everything was still on schedule and I was told to add 10-15 days to my original delivery date.


----------



## cdhbrad

I like the FM28 too. They don't happen to have a geometry chart for this frame on their site do they? 
Really like the UD with a matt clearcoat finish too. Should build up into a great looking ride.


----------



## WheresWaldo

This thread is even more intriquing now that so many have built up their framesets. I too got a quote from Jenny at HongFu mentioning 70 day delivery for FM015 UD/BB30. I have also gotten quotes from Jessie @ Sunday Trade, with a 50-60 day deilvery timeline but at a slightly higher price than HongFu. I also contacted Henry @ Archtek and his preliminary response was 3 to 4 weeks delivery at a lower price than HongFu. I am not quite sure it is exactly the same frame as the FM015, here is the link:

https://archteks.en.alibaba.com/product/295670247-200709482/Carbon_Frames_Road_TR_FM031CF_TR_FK018CF_.html










I have some 20mm carbon rims coming from Archtek and over at WeightWeenies there was a group buy on these rims with people trying to build sub 1000g wheelsets for under $1000.


----------



## BlackDoggystyle

cdhbrad said:


> I like the FM28 too. They don't happen to have a geometry chart for this frame on their site do they?
> Really like the UD with a matt clearcoat finish too. Should build up into a great looking ride.



You need to look a few pages "down" to see geo's from the FM28 frame... I posted them in 54cm and 56cm. :thumbsup:


----------



## cdhbrad

I'll look for them. Thanks.


----------



## WheresWaldo

Okay, this thread has inspired me to order the equivalent frame set of the FM015. I am still not convinced that HongFu is the actual manufacturer as Jenny is quoting 70 days for any BB30 frame. I purchased mine from Archteks Tech Co, Ltd. 

The prices quoted were lower than the recent prices from HongFu and delivery time is estimated at 3 to 4 weeks for BB30 frames. Here are some of the prices I was quoted from Henry @ Archteks

TR-FM031CF+TR-FK018CF Frame and Fork *$342*
TR-SD005CF Saddle *$45*
TR-CG638CF Bottle Cage *$9.50*
TR-HB024CF Handlebar *$80*
TR-HB014CF Handlebar *$45*

Shipping and Insurance to US *$98*
PayPal fee *5%* of total

What I managed to order was frame/fork in UD Woven unpainted finish, handlebars in 3K weave (sample only available in 3K), bottle cages in 3K weave.

There was a recent group buy of 20mm carbon rims over at WeightWeenies from Archteks and everyone over there seems happy with the attention they were given by Henry. When the frame arrives I will post some pictures here. I probably will not build it up right away as I will still need to decide on a paint job and will likely build it up with a custom installation of Di2.


----------



## alarum

*The build begins*

Got my 58cm, FM015, BB30, UD yesterday **only about two weeks from date ordered". Just waiting on handlebar/stem now for all my parts.. I'll post some pics when I am done.

For the record I weighed my frame @ 1097 grams (FM015-58cm, BB30) .


----------



## schoey

alarum said:


> Got my 58cm, FM015, BB30, UD yesterday **only about two weeks from date ordered". Just waiting on handlebar/stem now for all my parts.. I'll post some pics when I am done.
> 
> For the record I weighted my frame @ 1097 grams (FM015-58cm, BB30) .


Where did you order from??? I ordered/payed for mine from hongfu on April 22nd and still don't have it, I was told mid-july due to UD BB30 being a special order :cryin:


----------



## ammiel

This is my build:
Date built: April 2010
Mileage: More than 1000 miles and counting

Frame : FM001 frame with Onda style fork from Greatkeen ( Seat post, headset, handlebar and bottle cages are included ) 

Cost: $530 (includes shipping to Philippines, Tony Yang from Greatkeen offered 2 years warranty compared to 6 months to 1 year from other EBay sellers.)

Groupset : Shimano 105 5500 9-speed from my previous bike

Wheelset: Rigida

Total weight: 17 lbs (heavy wheels)


Feedback: Rides great compared to my old Fuji aluminum bike. Looks a lot better too. Ride is very comfortable especially for very long rides. Durable considering the road condition that I ride in. Paved but not very good.


----------



## ammiel

*Pictures for those who don't have an RBR account*

Decals were computer cut. They were copied from original bike.
<img src ="https://lh3.ggpht.com/_4xdYLOY1sYM/TCME4hKVp4I/AAAAAAAAAA0/a30hfaUB-6Q/06242010133.JPG"/>
<BR>
<img src ="https://lh4.ggpht.com/_4xdYLOY1sYM/TCME5Rpzn2I/AAAAAAAAAA4/aH6zWEsnC2I/06242010135.JPG"/><BR>
<img src ="https://lh5.ggpht.com/_4xdYLOY1sYM/TCME5b0Q8lI/AAAAAAAAAA8/_gkUAWtlE8s/06242010136.JPG"/><BR>
<img src ="https://lh3.ggpht.com/_4xdYLOY1sYM/TCME5gsNW6I/AAAAAAAAABA/W6wuqrJpbFk/06242010137.JPG"/><BR>
<img src ="https://lh5.ggpht.com/_4xdYLOY1sYM/TCME5rSPU5I/AAAAAAAAABE/DIUoGCvKm40/06242010138.JPG"/><BR>
<img src ="https://lh5.ggpht.com/_4xdYLOY1sYM/TCMFEG9FfPI/AAAAAAAAABQ/zFVkrHfc2gY/s640/06242010139.JPG"/><BR>
<img src ="https://lh3.ggpht.com/_4xdYLOY1sYM/TCMFEGR3XkI/AAAAAAAAABU/AHUOrNoS8OA/s640/06242010140.JPG"/><BR>
<img src ="https://lh6.ggpht.com/_4xdYLOY1sYM/TCMFETlx9FI/AAAAAAAAABY/dFmzK02k6_g/s640/06242010142.JPG"/><BR>
<img src ="https://lh6.ggpht.com/_4xdYLOY1sYM/TCMFEYuRd7I/AAAAAAAAABc/82oVTje-LM4/s640/06242010143.JPG"/><BR>


----------



## alarum

schoey said:


> Where did you order from??? I ordered/payed for mine from hongfu on April 22nd and still don't have it, I was told mid-july due to UD BB30 being a special order :cryin:


I ordered from Hong Fu as well. I was originally told of a 70 day wait time for BB30 as well, than they found one for me?..


----------



## jsedlak

I keep reading this thread, wondering if I should pull the trigger. Definitely want to build my own bike in the future.

But one thing is VERY confusing... how the heck do you order one of these things, and what extras do you need to get to complete the build? I suggest that the original post is updated with this and other relevant information. Would go a long way in making the thread more useful.


----------



## WheresWaldo

jsedlak said:


> ... how the heck do you order one of these things, and what extras do you need to get to complete the build?


Basically you need to find a supplier. Alibaba has most of the Asian suppliers included on their site. Once you figure out what you want, contact them asking for sample pricing. Most will respond within 12-24 hours asking about quantity, finish, delivery times (availability). Everything is usually done through email. When you finally say yes and agree on what items you want, prices and applicable shipping and money transfer fees, they will send you a request for funds. PayPal is the easiest way, some suppliers do not use PayPal and may insist on a wire transfer (try to avoid this if possible).

You then mark your calendar and wait for them to respond. Most will be very attentive to emails and will notify you when your frame is available for shipping. Please note that delivery times vary and depending on where you live in the world Customs regulations vary. In the US, Customs agents rarely care to examine bicycle parts much less impose any fees. They then turn the box over to the USPS for local delivery. It could take a week, it might take three.

After your frame arrives inspect it carefully. It is better to find something out before building rather than on the road. 

As far as components usually you want to order frame and fork. You might also include a headset if you are using a tapered fork as they are usually fairly cheap from the supplier. Other parts are usually called a build kit and your local bike shop can help you put one together. Otherwise some of the better known online retailers also sell bike build kits. It will include pretty much every other part you will need from drive train to bar tape. If you want to collect the pieces bit by bit, use the build kit as an outline for what you will need to buy to complete your new ride.

It is really not that difficult to purchase a bike frame and components this way. The hardest part is the waiting and not really knowing the person you are dealing with on the other side of the world.


----------



## slabber

I would recommend purchasing the following:

frame 
fork
headset
extra derailleur hangers (x2)

This way you know the parts you get should work right out of the box and they're cheaper from the seller direct. Definitely make sure you get the derailleur hangers as these are not name brand bikes you can find replacement hangers for at the LBS easily (not sure if they are using a standard hanger or not?). 

optional:
seat clamp 
seatpost 

Most of these frames use a 34.9 seat clamp so if you have one already, don't bother. The sellers often have inexpensive carbon 31.6 seatposts as well but for myself, I wanted to make sure I got a lightweight 2-bolt microadjustable post so I picked up a Thomson Masterpiece off ebay.


----------



## velo-blue

I've been noodling on the FM28 for a while, so it's great to see people talking it up a little. Interested to see what the experiences are. 

That said, I can't seem to find it from Greatkeen. Anyone know if it's still available?


----------



## basman1

Try here

http://www.greatkeen.com.cn/productgrouplist-201959029-7/Carbon_Parts_Factory.html

Google Dengfu sports equipment


----------



## mrbubbles

WheresWaldo said:


> Okay, this thread has inspired me to order the equivalent frame set of the FM015. I am still not convinced that HongFu is the actual manufacturer as Jenny is quoting 70 days for any BB30 frame. I purchased mine from Archteks Tech Co, Ltd.
> 
> The prices quoted were lower than the recent prices from HongFu and delivery time is estimated at 3 to 4 weeks for BB30 frames. Here are some of the prices I was quoted from Henry @ Archteks


Do you have the email to reach Henry @ Archteks? Their email doesn't seem to be working.


----------



## WheresWaldo

mrbubbles said:


> Do you have the email to reach Henry @ Archteks? Their email doesn't seem to be working.


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<!-- /* Font Definitions */ @font-face {font-family:"Cambria Math"; panose-1:2 4 5 3 5 4 6 3 2 4; mso-font-charset:0; mso-generic-font-family:roman; mso-font-pitch:variable; mso-font-signature:-1610611985 1107304683 0 0 415 0;} @font-face {font-family:Calibri; panose-1:2 15 5 2 2 2 4 3 2 4; mso-font-charset:0; mso-generic-font-family:swiss; mso-font-pitch:variable; mso-font-signature:-520092929 1073786111 9 0 415 0;} @font-face {font-family:Verdana; panose-1:2 11 6 4 3 5 4 4 2 4; mso-font-charset:0; mso-generic-font-family:swiss; mso-font-pitch:variable; mso-font-signature:-1593833729 1073750107 16 0 415 0;} /* Style Definitions */ p.MsoNormal, li.MsoNormal, div.MsoNormal {mso-style-unhide:no; mso-style-qformat:yes; mso-style-parent:""; margin:0in; margin-bottom:.0001pt; text-align:justify; mso-pagination:widow-orphan; font-size:10.5pt; font-family:"Times New Roman","serif"; mso-fareast-font-family:Calibri; mso-fareast-theme-font:minor-latin;} a:link, span.MsoHyperlink {mso-style-priority:99; color:blue; text-decoration:underline; text-underline:single;} a:visited, span.MsoHyperlinkFollowed {mso-style-noshow:yes; mso-style-priority:99; colorurple; mso-themecolor:followedhyperlink; text-decoration:underline; text-underline:single;} .MsoChpDefault {mso-style-type:export-only; mso-default-props:yes; font-size:10.0pt; mso-ansi-font-size:10.0pt; mso-bidi-font-size:10.0pt;} @page WordSection1 {size:8.5in 11.0in; margin:1.0in 1.0in 1.0in 1.0in; mso-header-margin:.5in; mso-footer-margin:.5in; mso-paper-source:0;} div.WordSection1 {page:WordSection1;} --> </style><!--[if gte mso 10]> <style> /* Style Definitions */ table.MsoNormalTable {mso-style-name:"Table Normal"; mso-tstyle-rowband-size:0; mso-tstyle-colband-size:0; mso-style-noshow:yes; mso-style-priority:99; mso-style-qformat:yes; mso-style-parent:""; mso-padding-alt:0in 5.4pt 0in 5.4pt; mso-para-margin:0in; mso-para-margin-bottom:.0001pt; mso-pagination:widow-orphan; font-size:11.0pt; font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"; mso-ascii-font-family:Calibri; mso-ascii-theme-font:minor-latin; mso-fareast-font-family:"Times New Roman"; mso-fareast-theme-font:minor-fareast; mso-hansi-font-family:Calibri; mso-hansi-theme-font:minor-latin; mso-bidi-font-family:"Times New Roman"; mso-bidi-theme-font:minor-bidi;} </style> <![endif]--> Henry - ArchTeks Co.​ TEL: 86-755-81632311 FAX: 86-755-33902641 MOBILE: 86-15889341016​ MSN: [email protected]​ Email: [email protected] & [email protected]​ Website: www.archteks.en.alibaba.com​ ESCROW Purchase: http://www.aliexpress.com/store/600583


----------



## velo-blue

Thanks for the FM28 pointer.

Has anyone taken a look at the FM-R830SL? I did a search on the thread and didn't see it come up. I suppose that's not a good sign?

http://shangding.en.alibaba.com/pro...Carbon_Road_bike_frame_FM_R830SL_FK_R830.html



Peter


----------



## bikemanMD

*top tube measurements*

Sorry if this is a repeat question...didn't see an answer with a quick search of the thousand or so replies in this thread

Is the top tube measurement listed in the geometry chart an "actual" or "effective" TT measurement? I'm looking at the FM015.

Thanks very much


----------



## bikemanMD

bikemanMD said:


> Sorry if this is a repeat question...didn't see an answer with a quick search of the thousand or so replies in this thread
> 
> Is the top tube measurement listed in the geometry chart an "actual" or "effective" TT measurement? I'm looking at the FM015.
> 
> Thanks very much


Never mind, found it. Thanks for posting diagram. 58cm appears to be 56.7 effective TT


----------



## kmancrx

So I have been looking at these frames and I am possibly getting ready to purchase one. Money is of course the limiting reagent. I was looking at the FM-004. I was in contact with Jenny. She said she can do the frame and fork $350 with one color paint job, $15 for headset, $36 for seatpost $25 for the stem and $85 shipping. Total cost $511. I will just swap all of my 105 parts from my current BD alum frame. 

Thanks to all that have posted their experiences with these frame.


----------



## dmabraham

rruff said:


> The FM028 is the one I'd get. People seem to like to follow the herd, but that doesn't make the FM015 a better frame.


Just wondering why here?

D


----------



## rruff

I much prefer the looks of the FM028... but a big reason why people are getting the FM015 might be because they actually can.


----------



## schoey

rruff said:


> I much prefer the looks of the FM028... but a big reason why people are getting the FM015 might be because they actually can.


Options on the FM028 are very limited unless you can order the MOQ. I needed BB30 and liked the UD finish so my only option for a 1 off order was the FM015.

If I was ordering something more standard I would be going for the 28 for sure, much nicer looking frame imho.


----------



## rruff

What is MOQ? 

Did they mention if the standard BB and seatpost, and either UD or 3K can be had?


----------



## schoey

rruff said:


> What is MOQ?


Minimum Order Quantity



rruff said:


> Did they mention if the standard BB and seatpost, and either UD or 3K can be had?


From tony @ greatkeen, _"at present we mass produce with 3k and 12k weave and english BB."_ Not sure about seat post option but I think it was a standard seat post that was on offer


----------



## mcrent100

*Paint and Decal template*

Does anybody have a link to the paint and decal template if it exists.. Somewhere in one the othe earlier pages it was mentioned but I cannot find it..

Thanks for the help...


----------



## alarum

*Some pics from the start of the build*

Still waiting on my stem and BB30 tool... I can't wait to ride it..


----------



## kmancrx

alarum said:


> Still waiting on my stem and BB30 tool... I can't wait to ride it..


^^^^ 
Frame looks sweet. Where did you order it from? How much for the black paint?


----------



## jwcurry83

Anyone heard of Hongfu Bikes now having a USA contact? I just got this email from Jenny of Hongfu:



> thanks for your email!
> so please contact our USA agency,they will tell you the details.
> the contact information is :
> Dr. Rich Protasiewicz, Jr.
> A Healthy Perspective (business name)
> 7918 Harwood Avenue
> Wauwatosa, Wisconsin 53213
> 
> phone: 1-414-282-9500
> email: [email protected]
> 
> best regards!
> Jenny



I have emailed that contact asking for price quotes on the FM029 / FM029-ISP time trial frames; as I want to build up a nice triathlon bike. I am also looking at possibly getting some carbon wheels from them too if they come built up... I don't want to go through the hassle of buying spokes & hubs separately.

Has anyone built up either of those 2010 frames; or any other TT frame I should take a look at? Also, could someone tell me what size bike they would go with for a 5'6" 140lb guy?


----------



## alarum

kmancrx said:


> ^^^^
> Frame looks sweet. Where did you order it from? How much for the black paint?


Ordered from Hong Fu, buts its not painted. That is simply the clear coated UD carbon finish. I like the way it looks.


----------



## Myrkur

Has any of you tried Miracle Trade? I just pulled the trigger and bought 50mm carbon clincher wheelset ( I was told the weight is 1550g) and the whole thing cost 610 $(shipping to Finland, payment by Paypal). If the wheels are what they say I think it is a pretty good deal.

The bad thing is that it takes three months to make the wheelset and I can't be 100% sure if I am being scammed. It's not the end of the world if I lose that 600$ but it would ease my mind to know that they are actually making my wheels. So can anyone confirm that Miracle Trade is legit?


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## jwcurry83

Just an update... that USA contact for Hongfu Bikes is apparently a "new venture"... he quoted me $1300 for the frames that I listed, lol... his justification on this huge price was that it is the new frame design and that is wholesale. Needless to say I will be looking elsewhere, or I will at least be contacting Hongfu directly for my purchase.


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## BlackDoggystyle

We got some bikeshops that, I asume that hey work with HongFu because they are selling the same frames, are selling the same frames with there own "brand" (bike shop) for more than twice the price of HongFu  . I don't hink they realise there Chinese manufacturer are also selling directly to the consumer.


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## mcrent100

I'm sure they know.. but not everyone is into doing a little research before they buy something.. walk into a shop and see full carbon for 1K and start drooling.. Shop guy says OH we are just blowing these out at our cost fior advertisement...


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## mcrent100

They charge 45.00 USD for black paint...I just got a quote yesterday from Tony @ greatkeen...



kmancrx said:


> ^^^^
> Frame looks sweet. Where did you order it from? How much for the black paint?[/QUOTE


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## slabber

So, my frameset arrived today as purchased from Hong Fu. 

49cm FM015 and matching FK007 fork in 3K weave, matte finish. 

Actual weight for frame is 960g. Haven't cut the fork yet so didn't weigh it. 

Two issues - one more minor than the other... 

1. I ordered an English BB as it was readily available while BB30 was 70 day lead time. I received a BB30 frame. It's actually what I really wanted originally so I'm ok with that part. That said, I don't have BB30 cranks and plan to run my english square taper bb in the BB30 shell with an adapter. 

Who has used a BB30 adapter in their chinese CF frame and which one did you use?

The reason I ask is that it appears the BB shell steps up as you go towards center of frame and I think the standard is a smooth bore all the way across. This may mean that I can't use a std BB30 adapter and it's why I ask who has and which adapter was it?










2. One of the down tube cable stops is misaligned. Enough that the cable will rub on the barrel adjuster tube. Hong Fu said they will send me a new frame but I have to ship this one back at my cost. New frame would be english bb to boot as there is a shortage of BB30 currently - apparently I got lucky on the BB, not so much on the cable stop. 

So, rather than pay out of pocket on shipping the frame back, Hong Fu has asked whether I can get the frame fixed here. Ostensibly, would need to drill out the existing cable stop and rivet in a new one. Not sure if I am comfortable drilling more holes into the carbon fiber frame... I might just put a sleeve of teflon in the barrel adjuster and see if that helps... If anyone has any tips, let me know. 

Here's pics of the cable routing - as you can see in the last one, the cable rubs the adjuster barrel itself causing unnecessary friction/wear on the cable and adjuster. On the other side, the cable comes out the center and runs very smoothly. :


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## Ohm

slabber; I feel sorry for you. I would have lived with the guide if the seller would compensate my in some way. You could put some teflon tubing in the barrel in order to reduce friction. Shifting will probably be fine - there is friction in several other places as well.


My question - anybody have dealt with Jerry Lee at cebicycle?
I was remainded about this company as I got a new mail today. He sent me a picture of some new (uninterresting) stuff.
http://www.cebicycle.com/products.asp?productSort=4
China Element(Tianjin )Sport Equipment.Co.,Ltd
Adress:Liutai Garden,Jinbei Road,Dongli Destric,Tianjin
Tel/Fax: 86-22-84870135，88906966 Mobile: 86-13821097925
E-mail: [email protected] or [email protected]
Http//www.cebicycle.com

This is his answer to me asking about one of the Pinarellos some months ago.

Thanks for your inquiry, this is Jerry It is great to work with you. Due to the model: carbon008, the price is USD5150.00 assembly with Campagnolo Bora Two wheel sets and super record ut11s group sets. We can do the size as 48/51/54/57/59.5 . Sorry, now we have no stock in our warehouse. I also would like to introduce our 2010 new model" fomas" road bike, as attached. the price is USD2690.00 only.
For more products infomation, you can check at our website:www.xuzhibike.com
Delivery: 4-6weeks.

Note the company xuzhibike instead of cebicycle in his latest mail. The sites look the same though.

/Jörgen


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## dmabraham

*Some Geo questions*

I think I found a frame to order, I am going to go through ebay (88bikefun) as it just seems a little easier to me then trying to special order something with a long lead time direct from the manufacturer. The frame I found is close in geometry to me current bike, but I was wondering about a few things.

The top tube is about 1 cm shorter than my current F100 (556 vs 565ish), but I have been thinking about changing to a shoter stem to pull my reach in a little, so no problem there.

The headtube is about 5mm shorter on the frame and the seat tube angle is a degree high (74 vs 73). I am just wondering if this will have an overall change of putting me a little more forward and over the handlebars?

Thanks for any help.

Heres the frame


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## WheresWaldo

slabber said:


> So, my frameset arrived today as purchased from Hong Fu.
> 49cm FM015 and matching FK007 fork in 3K weave, matte finish.
> Actual weight for frame is 960g. Haven't cut the fork yet so didn't weigh it.


It looks real good, but weigh the fork uncut as that is the weight they advertise. Interesting that the weight is less than spec, especially on a 3k weave frame.



slabber said:


> Two issues - one more minor than the other...
> 
> 1. I ordered an English BB as it was readily available while BB30 was 70 day lead time.... I'm OK with that part. ... and plan to run my English square taper BB in the BB30 shell with an adapter.


Can't help with the adapter as the more common FSA adapter will likely not fit. An adapter will be your only choice if you really intend to use a square taper BB. If you are planning on using a BB30 crank in the future, why not consider that purchase now?



slabber said:


> 2. One of the down tube cable stops is misaligned. Enough that the cable will rub on the barrel adjuster tube... would need to drill out the existing cable stop and rivet in a new one. Not sure if I am comfortable drilling more holes into the carbon fiber frame...


You may not need to drill a new hole, I would drill out the two pop rivets that hold the guide and see if the holes are slightly larger than the rivet used then you can replace the guide with two new rivets while slightly twisting the guide into the proper position. If that is not the case, simply ovalize (That's not really a word, but you get my meaning) the holes on opposite sides so that the rivets, when replaced hold the guide in straighter.


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## WheresWaldo

dmabraham said:


> ... The frame I found is close in geometry to me current bike, but I was wondering about a few things....
> Thanks for any help.


Assuming you are looking at the 56cm frame the stack and reach for this frame is 570.1 STACK, 392.5 REACH. In oder to match your Felt I would need to know the effective top tube, head tube length, BB drop, head and seat tube angles of your current ride. The number I gave you assume a 368 mm dropout to crown fork.

With STACK and REACH you can compare the two frames on a apples to apples basis rather than guessing.

BTW the trail on this frame with the supplied 43mm offset fork is 5.7, which for me at least is on the twitchier end of neutral handling. (My scale is 6.0< and you are riding an ocean liner, 5.9-5.7 neutral, 5.6> brings you to the original Cannondale Crit bike geo a lot to handle)


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## slabber

WheresWaldo said:


> It looks real good, but weigh the fork uncut as that is the weight they advertise. Interesting that the weight is less than spec, especially on a 3k weave frame.
> 
> 
> Can't help with the adapter as the more common FSA adapter will likely not fit. An adapter will be your only choice if you really intend to use a square taper BB. If you are planning on using a BB30 crank in the future, why not consider that purchase now?
> 
> 
> You may not need to drill a new hole, I would drill out the two pop rivets that hold the guide and see if the holes are slightly larger than the rivet used then you can replace the guide with two new rivets while slightly twisting the guide into the proper position. If that is not the case, simply ovalize (That's not really a word, but you get my meaning) the holes on opposite sides so that the rivets, when replaced hold the guide in straighter.



thanks WW - I'll weigh the fork tonight and post the number. The frame is lighter because of the size I expect - it's the smallest at 49cm. 

I'm going to call a couple shops today and see what is available as far as BB30 adapters - as you say, I may be out of luck because of the step up inside the shell. The FSA adapter, which appears to be the most readily available, looks like its simply a pressfit sleeve that wouldn't go over the step inside my BB... I'm sure any other adapter out there will be similar unless looking to adapt to external BB type systems which can use the Wheels Mfg type 'cup replacement' type pieces. But, as I'm hoping to use an older Race Face taperlock Ti BB, I may need to rethink my options.

Good suggestions on the cable guide alignment. I'll probably just leave it as is for now but will consider doing a realignment exercise at a later date, should it prove necessary. I'll just use a teflon sleeve for now I think.


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## dmabraham

WheresWaldo said:


> Assuming you are looking at the 56cm frame the stack and reach for this frame is 570.1 STACK, 392.5 REACH. In oder to match your Felt I would need to know the effective top tube, head tube length, BB drop, head and seat tube angles of your current ride. The number I gave you assume a 368 mm dropout to crown fork.
> 
> With STACK and REACH you can compare the two frames on a apples to apples basis rather than guessing.
> 
> BTW the trail on this frame with the supplied 43mm offset fork is 5.7, which for me at least is on the twitchier end of neutral handling. (My scale is 6.0< and you are riding an ocean liner, 5.9-5.7 neutral, 5.6> brings you to the original Cannondale Crit bike geo a lot to handle)


Thanks for the response, the frame I am riding on now is a Neuvation F100, with a stack and reach in a size 56 of (s) 560 and (r) 393. http://www.neuvationcycling.com/bikegeometry.html I have a 110mm stem on as well. So it sounds like (from your help thanks!) this frame is

1. ~10mm greater in stack height
2. ~the same in reach
3. ~likely to be slightly "twitcher" in the grand scheme of things (I must admit I don't know what trail is, or how you found it, but the F100 feels very stable and untwitchy to me so this may feel a bit more "lively," which I'm fine with)

2 + 3 I understand and seem reasonable to me, but I am not sure what the difference in 1 cm of stack height translates into?

Lastly, this is all a nice reward project for me, I want to build a bike in general. It would be great if the on first try I absoluely nail the frame and size, but if not I know I will be pretty darn close.

Thanks again for the help, reach seems like a very intuitive measurement, but the stack still seems unrelated (unless you have really long or short legs with regards to your general size maybe).

Cheers
Dan


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## WheresWaldo

dmabraham

The reach will tell you that everything will be about the same as far as where the handlebars are located. The stack being 1 cm lower means that in order to get the bars at the same level you will need to add a spacer.


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## dmabraham

WheresWaldo said:


> dmabraham
> 
> The reach will tell you that everything will be about the same as far as where the handlebars are located. The stack being 1 cm lower means that in order to get the bars at the same level you will need to add a spacer.


Thanks!


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## slabber

slabber said:


> thanks WW - I'll weigh the fork tonight and post the number. The frame is lighter because of the size I expect - it's the smallest at 49cm.
> 
> I'm going to call a couple shops today and see what is available as far as BB30 adapters - as you say, I may be out of luck because of the step up inside the shell. The FSA adapter, which appears to be the most readily available, looks like its simply a pressfit sleeve that wouldn't go over the step inside my BB... I'm sure any other adapter out there will be similar unless looking to adapt to external BB type systems which can use the Wheels Mfg type 'cup replacement' type pieces. But, as I'm hoping to use an older Race Face taperlock Ti BB, I may need to rethink my options.
> 
> Good suggestions on the cable guide alignment. I'll probably just leave it as is for now but will consider doing a realignment exercise at a later date, should it prove necessary. I'll just use a teflon sleeve for now I think.


Looks like I'm sorted - found a SRAM Force BB30 crankset locally for a great price, my LBS comes through big time. Props to Mike Bennett at Euro-Sports in Ottawa!


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## rruff

dmabraham said:


> he headtube is about 5mm shorter on the frame and the seat tube angle is a degree high (74 vs 73). I am just wondering if this will have an overall change of putting me a little more forward and over the handlebars?


The important thing is your contact points with the bike (saddle, bars) not the geometry of the frame. The steeper seat tube angle compensates for the shorter TT. If you slide your saddle 1cm back on the rails, then your saddle position and reach will be identical to what you now have. The 5mm in the headtube is easily compensated with a spacer. If you like your current position, then this frame will be perfect.


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## dmabraham

Thanks for all the help, I went ahead and ordered from 88bikefun, Ill post when it arrives with the condition, time, shipping, etc. Then its time to start (slowly) figuring out how to build a bike. School (teacher) lets out on July 16th, so this will be a perfect way to start off summer break.


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## WheresWaldo

rruff said:


> The important thing is your contact points with the bike (saddle, bars) not the geometry of the frame. The steeper seat tube angle compensates for the shorter TT. If you slide your saddle 1cm back on the rails, then your saddle position and reach will be identical to what you now have. The 5mm in the headtube is easily compensated with a spacer. If you like your current position, then this frame will be perfect.


That is why Stack and Reach are good indicators. You are not changing physical attribute you are changing geometry of your frame, so just because you have a shorter top tube or steeper seat tube angles doesn't mean your femur or tibia or height/width has suddenly changed size. You should always have your saddle in the same position relative to BB regardless of STA, so if the BB is used as a fixed point and you know how far back and up your saddle should be Reach will tell you how far forward the bars are from that point, Stack will tell you how low or high the bars are in relation to reach. It is then easy to guesstimate how long a stem or how many spacers you will need to fit the bike the same way. 

Stack and Reach is an underused concept, but many manufacturers are starting to come around and publishing those numbers for you rather than you having to figure them out yourself.

If you want to see the formulas here they are, please forgive me if you already know this information:










Simplified, *STACK* is the measurement from the center of the bottom bracket to the top of the head tube. Mathematically represented it is:
<address>*STACK = BB_drop + (Axle_crown_ht + Head_tube_ht) * sin(Head_tube_angle)
*
</address>*REACH* is the measurement from the center of the bottom bracket to the center of the head tube along the effective top tube line. Mathematically represented it is: <address>*REACH = Effective_top_tube – STACK / tan(Seat_tube_angle)

 *Please note that this will not apply directly to TT frames*
*</address>


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