# Cermaic Speed pulley/jockey wheels



## neil_79 (Sep 28, 2011)

I'm looking for some views.

I've been offered the oppotunity of purchasing some Ceramic Speed alloy pulley/jockey wheels for a good price. 

I know not everyone agrees ceramic bearings offer any beneifts, but does anyone have experience of using the Ceramic Speed pulley wheels with a Shimano Dura ace 7900 drivetrain? I know the top pulley wheel fitted by Shimano has a few mm of float to compensate for the rear derailuer being slightly out of alignment, whereas the Ceramic Speed version is fixed (although slightly narrower to compensate). I'm keen to know if this gave any shifting problems or required repeated adjustment?

Thanks for your help.


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## Peanya (Jun 12, 2008)

If it ain't broke, don't break it! I could see shifting getting slightly worse, but not so much you'd notice it. The performance gains are argued because no one can prove any real performance increase from switching out the pulleys. Food for thought.


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## Kerry Irons (Feb 25, 2002)

*Good price*



neil_79 said:


> I've been offered the oppotunity of purchasing some Ceramic Speed alloy pulley/jockey wheels for a good price.


A "good price" on something you don't need does not seem like much of an opportunity to me. Penya explained it well.


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## Mr. Versatile (Nov 24, 2005)

Every time I've tried aftermarket pulleys on any bike I've ever owned the shifting was degraded.


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## minutemaidman (Jun 14, 2010)

I say get them. I have an older bike with a Dura-Ace RD7402 that has Bullseye aluminum racing pulleys from back in the 90s (I had to replace the bearings once) and it works great. I have a little more modern bike with a 105 RD5700 medium cage with Omni pulleys with ceramic bearings and it works fantastic. I have a ceramic bearing bottom bracket from Omni as well and it has been flawless so far with a noticable difference for me. Sure, none of that is necessary, but if you can afford it and want it, why not make your bike something that you wont see every other yahoo out there on the road riding too?


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## Ohm_S.Ohm (Aug 21, 2004)

Aren't ceramic bearing quieter, and require less lubrication? For these reasons, I would actually consider replacing my stock Campy Record pulleys, because they periodically make me feel like I'm being pursued by a flock of parakeets.

Unfortunately for me, I can't avail myself of any deals such as the one you are considering. I'd say, "Go for it!".


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## Peanya (Jun 12, 2008)

minutemaidman said:


> Sure, none of that is necessary, but if you can afford it and want it, why not make your bike something that you wont see every other yahoo out there on the road riding too?


You're absolutely right! When in group rides, I'm always looking at every one else's pulleys. And their bearings inside their BB too, for that matter.


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## neil_79 (Sep 28, 2011)

Thanks for the replies - certainly food for thought.

For context I'm running a Ceramic Speed bottom bracket on Roubaix and I'm completely sold on the ceramic bearing upgrades, although I know not everyone is. 

However, whilst I'm keen to give the pulley wheels ago, HTC (which is sponsored by Ceramic Speed - I am not by the way!) run their bikes with a Shimano top pulley and ceramic lower pulley to ensure smooth shifting. My thoughts were if a pro tour team and their mechanics can't get a perfect set up with replacement pulley wheels, what hope do I have...maybe save the money and put it towards ceramic wheel bearings instead!


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## wim (Feb 28, 2005)

minutemaidman said:


> Bullseye aluminum racing pulleys from back in the 90s


Bullseye pulleys—I remeber them well from way back in the 1970s. The owner of the company, Roger Durham, used to advertise them with the catch phrase "Save enough energy in 100 miles to raise 100 lbs. 120 feet. No cones to adjust." Now who could argue with that?


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## cxwrench (Nov 9, 2004)

Ohm_S.Ohm said:


> Aren't ceramic bearing quieter, and require less lubrication? For these reasons, I would actually consider replacing my stock Campy Record pulleys, because they periodically make me feel like I'm being pursued by a flock of parakeets.
> 
> Unfortunately for me, I can't avail myself of any deals such as the one you are considering. I'd say, "Go for it!".


seriously? 'quieter'? than something that already makes (or should) make no noise at all? if you want them to stay like new, they require more attention than normal. but then again, we're talking about reducing the drag in smallest imaginable amount, so it really doesn't matter anyway.


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## Kerry Irons (Feb 25, 2002)

*Tweets*



Ohm_S.Ohm said:


> I would actually consider replacing my stock Campy Record pulleys, because they periodically make me feel like I'm being pursued by a flock of parakeets.


You do realize that it is VERY easy to clean and lube Campy derailleur pulleys, right? You just remove them from the derailleur, slide out the bushings, clean everything, and put them back together with a heavy oil (like gear lube) or a mixture of oil and lightweight grease. In the last 130,000 miles of riding with Record pulleys, I have not ONCE heard a sound from them. I diagnose operator error


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## Ohm_S.Ohm (Aug 21, 2004)

Kerry Irons said:


> You just remove them from the derailleur, slide out the bushings, clean everything, and put them back together with a heavy oil (like gear lube) or a mixture of oil and lightweight grease.


But imagine the watts I would save if I didn't have to perform all this needless maintenance... Not to mention the toll all that petroleum takes on the environment


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## pierre-san (Aug 19, 2010)

Get the pulleys over wheel bearings as the gains from doing your wheels is very minimal.


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## cxwrench (Nov 9, 2004)

pierre-san said:


> Get the pulleys over wheel bearings as the gains from doing your wheels is very minimal.


and pulleys contribute what percentage of bearing induced drivetrain drag? :skep:


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## bigbill (Feb 15, 2005)

The only ceramic upgrade I would consider is for Campy 11 rear derailleur pulleys. Record and below pulleys are around $30 a set. Super Record ceramic bearing pulleys are $62 a set. I put more faith in a campy product (or Shimano if I leaned that way) over any aftermarket me-too ceramic bearing product. 

For the record, I do have Record cranksets on both road bikes and they come with campy USB hybrid ceramic bearings.


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## minutemaidman (Jun 14, 2010)

Peanya said:


>


I can appreciate your sarcasm. Also, for some, like me, it is about the bikes too. I spent about $1200 building a bike that performs like most $4000-$8000 bikes from weight to stiffness to handling to comfort, etc. I hand picked every part and put it all together. There are some people that can appreciate that and some people that have no appreciation for things like that. Thats fine. When I come across cyclists that can appreciate it, they easily realize that every detail of this bike was thought about, it was put together with care, love and consideration, and the bike gets a lot of compliments. And, there isnt another one on the road like it. I like bikes. And I love my bikes. Personally, I cant even imagine just buying a bike from a store. To me that is strange.


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## danl1 (Jul 23, 2005)

cxwrench said:


> and pulleys contribute what percentage of bearing induced drivetrain drag? :skep:


Well yeah, but they are the fastest-turning bearings on the bike*, so there's that. 



*Unless you happen to be spinning out the 11, then it's a wash.


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## Kontact (Apr 1, 2011)

I'd spend the money on something with a greater performance edge, like carbon fiber eyelash fairings or titanium cable crimps. Maybe get your helmet teflon coated? Ceramic brake caliper pivots? 

You could start by turning all your quick releases so they face aft for aerodynamics. That's free, and will have more of an impact.


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## PissedOffCil (Jan 3, 2008)

danl1 said:


> Well yeah, but they are the fastest-turning bearings on the bike*, so there's that.
> 
> 
> 
> *Unless you happen to be spinning out the 11, then it's a wash.


Huh... :idea: Wheels will spin much faster than anything else.


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## Pirx (Aug 9, 2009)

PissedOffCil said:


> Huh... :idea: Wheels will spin much faster than anything else.


Nonsense. Unless you're in the 11-tooth cog, where the wheel spins as fast as your 11-tooth jockey wheel, as the poster above has said. So, most of the time, the jockey wheels spin the fastest.


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## PissedOffCil (Jan 3, 2008)

Pirx said:


> Nonsense. Unless you're in the 11-tooth cog, where the wheel spins as fast as your 11-tooth jockey wheel, as the poster above has said. So, most of the time, the jockey wheels spin the fastest.


Whoa, coffee wasn't strong enough this morning, didn't account for the mechanical advantage of the cassette...

Move on people, move on... :blush2:


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## Chainstay (Mar 13, 2004)

Kontact said:


> I'd spend the money on something with a greater performance edge, like carbon fiber eyelash fairings or titanium cable crimps. Maybe get your helmet teflon coated? Ceramic brake caliper pivots?
> 
> You could start by turning all your quick releases so they face aft for aerodynamics. That's free, and will have more of an impact.


Will the eye lash fairings help even if I wear sun glasses?


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## danl1 (Jul 23, 2005)

PissedOffCil said:


> Whoa, coffee wasn't strong enough this morning, didn't account for the mechanical advantage of the cassette...
> 
> Move on people, move on... :blush2:


Wheel bearings do win on a big, steep hill. But it's all a funny. If one searches enough, they'll find a graph I've posted here from a major manufacturer of the ceramic balls used in these bearings. Along with their notes about it, where they say that ball material makes fairly no difference at all to drag until you get above 15,000 or so RPM. 

So, if you get on a steep enough hill to get the bike up to 1,249 mph, yeah it matters to the wheel bearings. I took an educated guess and figured that it'd be slightly easier to get to the 3,000 or so crank RPM it'd take to get the jockey wheels up to that speed.


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## kbiker3111 (Nov 7, 2006)

Chainstay said:


> Will the eye lash fairings help even if I wear sun glasses?


Yes, you'll reduce the watts/blink.


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## evolux (Nov 26, 2014)

Mr. Versatile said:


> Every time I've tried aftermarket pulleys on any bike I've ever owned the shifting was degraded.


Have you tried Ceramic Speed?


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## cxwrench (Nov 9, 2004)

evolux said:


> Have you tried Ceramic Speed?


Don't you think that if the component manufacturers thought that alloy/extra large/whatever pulleys were that much better they'd be the first to provide an 'upgraded' derailleur that had them? They just don't matter, and as posted earlier they never shift as well as the OEM pulleys. And isn't that the primary function of a derailleur?


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## evolux (Nov 26, 2014)

cxwrench said:


> Don't you think that if the component manufacturers thought that alloy/extra large/whatever pulleys were that much better they'd be the first to provide an 'upgraded' derailleur that had them? They just don't matter, and as posted earlier they never shift as well as the OEM pulleys. And isn't that the primary function of a derailleur?


You right mate. But. I tried Aerozine pulley wheels with ceramic bearings. Not night and day difference but noticeable, seriously,not placebo effect. Of course, shifting was not the same as oem one, cuz teeth are more thinner than originals. So i'm looking Ceramic Speed if they are more similar in width dimension. It's a choice, to find the right compromise. Pro peloton don't use the standards. Just advertising? 

Inviato dal mio SM-N9005 utilizzando Tapatalk


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## cxwrench (Nov 9, 2004)

evolux said:


> You right mate. But. I tried Aerozine pulley wheels with ceramic bearings. Not night and day difference but noticeable, seriously,not placebo effect. Of course, shifting was not the same as oem one, cuz teeth are more thinner than originals. So i'm looking Ceramic Speed if they are more similar in width dimension. It's a choice, to find the right compromise. Pro peloton don't use the standards. Just advertising?
> 
> Inviato dal mio SM-N9005 utilizzando Tapatalk


'Noticeable'? Please...bicycle drive trains are 98-99% efficient as is. Do you claim that you can tell a less then 1% difference?


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## Pirx (Aug 9, 2009)

evolux said:


> Have you tried Ceramic Speed?


Dude, you're asking this question almost five years late.


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## evolux (Nov 26, 2014)

Pirx said:


> Dude, you're asking this question almost five years late.


Thread not closed yet  

But: 5 years. They didn't correct the thread title.


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