# Climbing hills



## dailo (Jul 12, 2010)

I recently just started to get into cycling and have been doing a few long rides a week, but mostly flat roads. Today I tried to climb a very steep hill and thought I was going to die. It was about 2000 ft of climb and I could only get to 700 before I turned back around. I have a Cannondale Six 5 with a regular crankset, would a compact crankset help dramatically? I'm out of shape so my legs and lungs were really struggling to climb the hill, but I'd like to be able to climb it slowly but even the lowest gear was too tough. Do you need to change the crankset and the rear cassette?


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## frpax (Feb 13, 2010)

Gearing down, whether by changing to a compact crank or changing cassettes, is important.

What exactly are you running right now? 53/39 up front and a 12-25 in back?


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## dgeesaman (Jun 9, 2010)

Hills are hard. If you're just getting into it, you need to look for hills that aren't as severe and build up to the level of power required. They are especially hard if you have body mass (i.e. fat) that doesn't help propel you on the bike.

Changing gearing will help too, but 2000ft climb is a lot of altitude gain.

David


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## Tommy Walker (Aug 14, 2009)

The best solution is to keep at it, get in better shape and lose some weight. Then you can benefit from changing the back to a 12-27 or 12-28 and then if you have a lot of climbing in mind, consider the compact.


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## wim (Feb 28, 2005)

*Pacing helps.*



dailo said:


> Today I tried to climb a very steep hill and thought I was going to die. It was about 2000 ft of climb and I could only get to 700 before I turned back around.


No way for me to know if you're doing this, but a common beginner's mistake is to attack the beginning section of a hill with way too much fervor. Part of this is mental ("got to get this over with"); part of this is visual due to foreshortening ("this hill doesn't look very long"). Ease yourself into the climb and then use the left-over energy closer to the top. If you ride with a recreational group, you see this all the time: the bottom-attackers get away for a while, only to be caught and passed by the more experienced riders toward the top of the hill.

As to gears: yes, lower gears definitely help. But keep in mind that there's no free lunch in physics: with really low gears, you trade large amounts of speed for ease of pedaling. If the gear is too low, you'll go so slow that you might as well walk up the hill. In short: lower your gears a bit with a different cassette and/or crankset, but also train to get stronger—as you will riding hills.


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## twiggy73 (Jan 19, 2010)

When i first started back on the bike in a serious way after a 10 year break 
I hit a hill with an ave grade of about 4% with a gain of about 600ft over roughly 4 miles 
all i had was a 42 21 (smallest ratio) took me 28 min a month later i came across a rd that i had never ridden before and took on a hill that turned out to be 13% ave gradient and a 700ft gain over a mile (roughly) now the second hill nearly killed me lol, i had to stop 4 times it was a killer 
Now a year later after loosing 15 ponds off me and 3 off my bike (new 585 YAY ) i only stopped once at the bottom to pump myself up and set mini goals and after a year of training i made it mide you my heart rate was pushing the max of 185 and it hurt bad 

But after more training i am regualry climbing a local hill with ave grade of 11% over 2 sections each about a mile long with a heart rate in the 170s 

It comes down to training in those types of areas and i agree starting small is the best place to start. But dont be afriad to push youself every know and then to see where you at 

complete some small gaols get them out of the way and throw in a few attempts of the main goal to gauge where your at 

Hit the hills 

Twiggy


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## Hank Stamper (Sep 9, 2009)

I just started last summer and even once I developed the strength/weight where theoretically I should be a decent climber I still pretty much sucked at longer hills. Here are the three things, other than pure fitness, that I feel helped me most.

-Instead of starting in a tough gear and shifting down as you burn out on the tough gear (which I found to be my instinct). Start easy and shift to a tougher gear when you want to pick it up a little.
-Relax your upper body. Also instinct was to grit my teeth and the wrench on the bars thinking it was creating more downward force on the pedals. Nope, just a waste of energy.
-Accept that climbing is hard and that means it's slower. I was alway burning out because I had to be macho and hammer it up any hill. The plan was always to nail it all the way up. That sounded good at the bottom but never worked. Much better to chill a bit early to mid way though then if you find you saved too much energy nail it when you see that light at the end so when you do burn out you're just starting a downhill.

Learning to enjoy pain doesn't hurt either.


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## mohair_chair (Oct 3, 2002)

It's very likely that you have plenty of gear to get up that hill. It's your legs and core that need improvement. So forget about changing equipment. Go back and ride that hill again and again until you get up it.

The story is the same for just about anyone who has ever tried to climb 2,000 feet on their bike. It took me three tries to get up my first hill.


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## dailo (Jul 12, 2010)

The bike has a Shimano 105 12/25 cassette. I'm probably just going to start tackling some less steeper hills first. My friend and I saw the route on Garmin connect and it didn't seem too hard because it was 2000 ft over 5 miles, but I guess the first part of it was steeper. If I could of pushed myself a little further it looks like it would of flattened out a little more, but I really need to do is get fit and lose some weight. Climbing hills when I was in high school when I was in much better shape...


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## mohair_chair (Oct 3, 2002)

dailo said:


> I really need to do is get fit and lose some weight. Climbing hills when I was in high school when I was in much better shape...


Keep trying to get up that hill and you'll get fit and lose some weight. It's a win-win. A win-win-win.


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## icsloppl (Aug 25, 2009)

dailo said:


> The bike has a Shimano 105 12/25 cassette. I'm probably just going to start tackling some less steeper hills first. My friend and I saw the route on Garmin connect and it didn't seem too hard because it was 2000 ft over 5 miles, but I guess the first part of it was steeper. If I could of pushed myself a little further it looks like it would of flattened out a little more, but I really need to do is get fit and lose some weight. Climbing hills when I was in high school when I was in much better shape...


A 39/25 could be challenging for that. If you can't keep your cadence over 90 rpm of so in the largest rear sprocket, consider a change. IMO i'd prefer a compact double to a triple or a very large rear.
Obvioulsy, climbing efficiency is a function of your weight to a great extent. If you're overweight and underconditioned, you will indeed suffer...


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## JCavilia (Sep 12, 2005)

dailo said:


> T My friend and I saw the route on Garmin connect and it didn't seem too hard because it was 2000 ft over 5 miles, but I guess the first part of it was steeper....



If that's accurate, you shouldn't feel bad, but you need to learn something about road grades (well, I guess you have now). That's a challenging climb, an average 7.5% grade, and if the first part was even steeper, that's a bear. That would likely be at least a 3d Category climb in the Tour de France, maybe 2d Category if it were just a little longer. One of the climbs they did on Saturday climbed about 2,200 feet in a little over 10 miles (just over half as steep as yours, on average, but longer) and was rated 2d Category.

Many recreational riders would want a triple for that climb.

Where do you live? All the advice about getting stronger is well taken, but if you have lots of routes like this and want to ride them regularly, you might want to consider equipment changes.


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## dailo (Jul 12, 2010)

I live in San Jose, CA and usually bike with a friend who just started out also, but is more fit then I am. He didn't make it up either so I don't feel quite as bad, but I was really depressed that I couldn't make it up yesterday. But with all the comments I don't feel as bad anymore knowing it was a difficult climb. We tried to do this:

http://connect.garmin.com/activity/39083638

But this is what I ended up doing
http://connect.garmin.com/player/40127348


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## mohair_chair (Oct 3, 2002)

OMG Sierra Road? Are you nuts???? Of course you aren't going to make it up Sierra Road. That road is brutal. It's like a 10% average grade. Holy cow. You will need a LOT more climbing in your legs to get up Sierra Road. 

Stick to a road like Mt. Hamilton. It will be hard, but not impossible. It's right there, near where you started, and it's a 5% grade.


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## JCavilia (Sep 12, 2005)

You see the things you learn coming here? Now you're really glad you posted ;-) And now you know that sometimes you can get really specific local knowledge here, so put that data in your posts.


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## fireplug (Nov 19, 2008)

for that amount of climbing a compact will do you good. It will not make it easy but easier. You will still have to build up to do a climb like that even with a compact.


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## dailo (Jul 12, 2010)

We probably should of drove up it first to see what it was like, but I guess we thought it didn't seem too bad until we got there. Thanks for the tip, maybe we'll try Mt. Hamilton this weekend.


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## jsedlak (Jun 17, 2008)

Try coming at it from the other side first... 

But yeah, climbing is hard and only gets slightly easier with practice.


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## mohair_chair (Oct 3, 2002)

dailo said:


> We probably should of drove up it first to see what it was like, but I guess we thought it didn't seem too bad until we got there. Thanks for the tip, maybe we'll try Mt. Hamilton this weekend.


Another option in the area is to go up Calaveras Road. At one point it goes off to the left at a section called "The Wall," which is pretty steep, but it's short, like maybe a quarter mile. Once over that, you can ride Calaveras Road next to the reservoir, and all the way out to 680 (or continue for another mile or so into the town of Sunol), then turn around and go back the way you came. It's a lot of up and down, so you'll get plenty of climbing, but only The Wall is difficult. It's a good ride, and one of the best routes in the area.

Here's your map, modified:


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## slomotion16 (Jul 12, 2010)

Hi all. I'm Jackson, the idiot that did Sierra Road with Dailo. Thanks for your informative words. Sierra Road was definitely a bad choice for our first climb. We won't be back there for a while =)


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## ziscwg (Apr 19, 2010)

slomotion16 said:


> Hi all. I'm Jackson, the idiot that did Sierra Road with Dailo. Thanks for your informative words. Sierra Road was definitely a bad choice for our first climb. We won't be back there for a while =)



Well, Im impress you had the balls to try. I have been in MTB for 3 yrs and just raced Downieville. I still dont have the balls yet to try Sierra Rd.

The Old Santa Cruz Hwy up to Summit Rd is a good climb.

I have also use Soda Springs Rd off of Lexington Res and Alma Bridge Rd to train also. It's 7% grade, but it's a steady 7% for 5.7 mi or so. The first time, I had to do a few circles (2 times) in someones flat driveway to recover a bit before climbing to the top.


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## dailo (Jul 12, 2010)

Feels better to know it just wasn't us. We were both sad when we had to turn back around and go back down the hill because we couldn't make it all the way up. At least we now have a goal to train for.


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## Erion929 (Jun 10, 2010)

Heh, sounds familiar :blush2: . I just got back into cycling after ~15 yrs. off. I thought that at 145 lbs. I couldn't be THAT out of shape. Well, hell, the first hill, or rather, 1/2 mile-long gentle grade, that I went up I almost died. My heart was thumping out of my chest and my lungs were burning. I thought I'd do a 40 minute ride but I was back home in 15 minutes.
I was actually quite pissed, lol  


Now I take on smaller steps. Just keeping at it every two to three days, riding the same type small hills and relearning how to get up them without standing up. So now it's a month later and I see improvement in that I can get up those hills while remaining sitting. It's painful and you wonder mid-hill WTF you're doing this? 

I even have to preplan my route so that I don't get caught having to walk it up several big hills in my area and endure the cackles from passersby. The goal obviously will be to be able to get up any hill within a 10 miles radius so that I don't have to worry.

Small steps, my friend! :thumbsup: 

**


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## martywoodman (Jan 10, 2010)

*Proper Form is important*

I'm really surprised nobody's mentioned proper climbing form. Hands on the bar tops, to open the chest area and get more oxygen (no need to be aero at less than 10 mph), and concentrate on pulling UP on the pedals to use the glutes and other muscles that are still fresh. Actually the best pedal stroke would be equal pressure throughout, but that translates into focusing on the UP stroke. As mentioned, relax the arms and torso. Try not to have tension in the shoulders. Slide back on the saddle a bit, look about 15 feet ahead, and think about breathing and form. Light touch on the pedals, which means low gears and faster spinning. Even exertion and cadence and you are at the top before you know it! :thumbsup:


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## WaitWienie (Feb 15, 2010)

San Jose local here as well... Yeah for a first climb you sure picked one to kick your butt!!! It is about a 9% average for I think 5 miles which is pretty intense if you don't know what you are getting yourself into. As far as your gearing you might want to go to a compact double for around these areas because we have a lot of hills that unless you have a bit of strength and fitness will kick your arse. We have tons of hills to practice on however, you mentioned Hamilton which isn't as steep but is around 19 mile climb to the top. But just like mentioned by martywoodman its helps to concentrate on what you are doing and not think to much about it. Relax, control your breathing and alternate between sitting adn standing to help spread out the work load and you will get it in no time.

Chris


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## Erion929 (Jun 10, 2010)

WaitWienie said:


> Relax, control your breathing and alternate between sitting adn standing to help spread out the work load and you will get it in no time.
> 
> Chris




That's one thing I was wondering about. When you are just training and riding around, and you want to climb a difficult hill (relative to your ability), is the objective to get completely up the hill:

-- while seated all the time
-- combination seated and standing to work different muscles
-- any way you can endure the pain, no "rules"

In other words, for amateurs not on the clock, is the real test getting up the hill without having to stand, or is that just false machismo, inefficient, and painful?

(I do know that standing uses more energy, so let's not worry about that issue)

**


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## mohair_chair (Oct 3, 2002)

I'll go with false machismo, inefficient, and painful. You do hills however it suits your style. And there is nothing wrong with standing up. It's helpful, actually.


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## WaitWienie (Feb 15, 2010)

Not sure about others, but standing and pedaling is actually easier and gives me a bit of a break. I have a faster cadence while sitting, but I traditionally can pedal 2 gears higher while standing to keep a smooth pedal stroke. I think you should fight to get to the top however you can.

Chris


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## ericm979 (Jun 26, 2005)

slomotion16 said:


> Hi all. I'm Jackson, the idiot that did Sierra Road with Dailo. Thanks for your informative words. Sierra Road was definitely a bad choice for our first climb. We won't be back there for a while =)


Get some lower gearing and enjoy the local climbs. With modern gearing there's no need to suffer even on steep climbs like Sierra. OK, even with lower gearing it won't be easy, but it'll be possible.

BTW Sierra is quite variable but gets easier the farther up you go.

I'm local, most here would consider me a fast climber, and I use a 50/34 crankset and 12-27 cassette. There's a lot of steep climbs in the south bay and I ride them often.

Standing vs sitting doesn't make a difference. Neither one is morally superior. Do whatever's faster for you.


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## kritiman (Jul 31, 2006)

martywoodman said:


> I'm really surprised nobody's mentioned proper climbing form. Hands on the bar tops, to open the chest area and get more oxygen (no need to be aero at less than 10 mph), and concentrate on pulling UP on the pedals to use the glutes and other muscles that are still fresh. Actually the best pedal stroke would be equal pressure throughout, but that translates into focusing on the UP stroke. As mentioned, relax the arms and torso. Try not to have tension in the shoulders. Slide back on the saddle a bit, look about 15 feet ahead, and think about breathing and form. Light touch on the pedals, which means low gears and faster spinning. Even exertion and cadence and you are at the top before you know it! :thumbsup:


Such exquisite advice I printed it out for reference. Keeping my upper body relaxed and turning circles both standing and sitting helps me. Maybe it's a Zen thing.

And as this is the Beginner's Corner, remember that there's no shame in walking up a hill.


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## dailo (Jul 12, 2010)

Good points with the form. I'll have to try it out next time I climb. Just did our normal route today which has minimal climbs, but as soon as the elevation changes I find myself struggling to keep a good speed going up the hill with a small grade. 

Any one have any good tips to prevent cramping? I was going at a pretty decent pace today, but toward the end of the ride I started to cramp up as I was pedaling hard going down hill. I usually try to stretch before riding, but whenever I pedal hard for a long period of time my calves start to cramp.

http://connect.garmin.com/activity/40362166


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## wim (Feb 28, 2005)

*Not when seated.*



martywoodman said:


> concentrate on pulling UP on the pedals


You hear and read this all the time, but no one does it during seated riding—and for good reason: the metabolic costs of pulling up (meaning actually generating an upward force on the upstroke pedal) while seated are huge, the gains very small. Nothing wrong with unweighting the upstroke pedal a bit so as not to pile additional work on the leg that's pushing down.


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## Hank Stamper (Sep 9, 2009)

martywoodman said:


> Actually the best pedal stroke would be equal pressure throughout, but that translates into focusing on the UP stroke.


Next time you ride try ONLY using the upstroke. I think you'll see pretty quickly that the effort/reward makes no sense and as a result EQUAL pressure up and down doesn't either.


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## dysfunction (Apr 2, 2010)

It's good for quickly increasing your turnover a bit, beyond that.. it becomes painful fast IMO.


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## josephr (Jun 17, 2010)

there's one guy I won't ride with anymore as he's always cramping up in his thighs. On a two hour ride, he'll drop four or five of those power gels, a power bar of some type, etc., but he'll only drink 1/3 of the two water bottles he brings. We've all told him several times that its a hydration issue, but darnit, he just won't listen. 

I'm not sure what all the causes/cures of cramping are...but stretching pre-ride and post-ride helps a whole lot and keeping yourself hydrated is a big part of it too. I'm sure someone will come along with more details!


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