# Cleat screw torque? Help..



## jrz1

I just bought a new pair of Mavic Huez road shoes. As I prepare to attach my Look Keo cleats to them I have a question that has come to mind every time I put new cleats on any carbon soled shoes. That question is how tight do you tighten the cleat screws? The Huez in particular is a very thin carbon sole. So much so that the shoes come with special, shorter, screws. Any time I work with carbon parts I try to use my torque wrench. However in this case I don't know what torque value to torque the screws to. Any help?:??


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## oldandtired

The instruction for the cleats say 5.5-6 Nm. I would hope that a shoe company as big as Mavic would take that into account when designing the sole for their new high end shoes


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## MMinSC

OH. MY. GOD. It's a flipping cleat screw that tightens into metal threads. Cranks the b*tch down. If you need a torque reading for this, put the tools down, and step away from the bench.


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## JCavilia

MMinSC said:


> OH. MY. GOD. It's a flipping cleat screw that tightens into metal threads. Cranks the b*tch down. If you need a torque reading for this, put the tools down, and step away from the bench.


Agree (not necessarily with the snark ;-). Basically, use as much force as you can apply with a screwdriver. FWIW, this is one of the places I almost always use blue Loctite. Twisting and vertical forces seem to make cleat screws especially prone to loosening.


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## jrz1

Okay, thanks guys (I think!). That's the info I needed....


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## oldandtired

Yeah,


> Cranks the b*tch down


 is always good advice.


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## DaveG

*I torque mine to 35in/lbs*



jrz1 said:


> I just bought a new pair of Mavic Huez road shoes. As I prepare to attach my Look Keo cleats to them I have a question that has come to mind every time I put new cleats on any carbon soled shoes. That question is how tight do you tighten the cleat screws? The Huez in particular is a very thin carbon sole. So much so that the shoes come with special, shorter, screws. Any time I work with carbon parts I try to use my torque wrench. However in this case I don't know what torque value to torque the screws to. Any help?:??


They have not slipped at that torque and has not damaged my carbon soles. I recheck them after the first ride or two


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## raptor72

*Don't do what he said!!!!!!*



MMinSC said:


> OH. MY. GOD. It's a flipping cleat screw that tightens into metal threads. Cranks the b*tch down. If you need a torque reading for this, put the tools down, and step away from the bench.


Quite possibly the worst advice I have seen on a forum. Use the recommended torque. I saw 2 guys with $400 dollar shoes destroy them this weekend. Cracked the cleat lug. The lugs are made of cheap metal. DO NOT CRANK DOWN ON THEM!


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## Oxtox

raptor72 said:


> Quite possibly the worst advice I have seen on a forum.


the worst...?

nah, not really. you can find all kinds of questionable suggestions on the net...like the necessity of pumping tires to the rated pressure, wearing two pairs of padded shorts, unclipping both feet when stopping, running red lights on the front, etc etc...

one person's ideal solution is another's WTF...


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## raptor72

yeah but this one can immediately cost someone $300-$400 for absolutely no reason.


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## Marc

raptor72 said:


> yeah but this one can immediately cost someone $300-$400 for absolutely no reason.


Most shoes, those lugs are user removable and replaceable. It will only cost $5 and not $400, unless you somehow manage to overtorque and crack the sole.


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## .je

Look website doesn't have a torque spec. Shimano does ( it's 5-6 Nm ) I'd think the Look is the same. 
https://www.google.ca/url?sa=t&sour...FjAAegQIBhAB&usg=AOvVaw3v6_XG8NbfaPVz0ux7H6pv
https://www.lookcycle.com/notices/notice-pedale-CLEAT-P0151-089-CALES-KEO.pdf
Unless things are different since 2012


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## Lombard

Marc said:


> Most shoes, those lugs are user removable and replaceable. It will only cost $5 and not $400, unless you somehow manage to overtorque and crack the sole.


Costing $$ is not the primary issue here. If cleat screws sheer off, it could cause the rider to not be able to unclip and cause an accident. Ask me how I know. 

Torque specs are there for a reason. Any advice to just "crank that b*tch down" is DUMB, DUMB, DUMB!

Though I have to admit, over torquing a headset is probably more dangerous in the grand scheme of things. So this may not be the WORST advice, but it runs close.


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## steelbikerider

Use a Ritchey torque rated at 5nm, check again in a week. Problem solved


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## rgamble

steelbikerider said:


> Use a Ritchey torque rated at 5nm, check again in a week. Problem solved


Good advice although even 5nm may be on the high end.

Place a dot of red nail polish where the edge of the cleat screw contacts the cleat.

That way a quick look will reveal if the fastening screw has moved.


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## BelgianHammer

This thread makes me sort of sad.

It tells me the lost art of being a truly competent DIYer among the general public is becoming even more lost. This is especially true for what I've seen at a select few (not the majority) bike shops, where people who have never worked on anything in their life, there they are saying they've been trained and are now your 'certified' bike mechanic. Uhmm, sorry, no way. No frigging way.

I grew up rebuilding all sorts of things, from Briggs & Stratton engines, to muscle engines, to model airplanes & cars, to refrigerators, to 3 channel televisions (lol), all the way to itty-bitty stuff like intricate glass pieces and/or eyeglasses. An early memory is watching my much older brother back in the late 60s tear down a Chevelle SS, both engine and transmission, with my Father approvingly looking on and supervising and me a runt just staring in awe, clutching a socket in my 5 yr old hands. As my Father used to say, there is nothing on this earth that any boy/girl/adult can't disassemble and then re-assemble, learning how it functions, operates and is put back together.

Torquing cleat screws, whether your shoe soles are carbon, plastic-reinforced and/or fiberglass?? Hmmm, given that ALL shoes are torqued into a metal screw housing, a lifetime of muscle memory and tinkering, and, well, like I said, this thread makes me kind of sad.


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## Hy7seas

DaveG said:


> *I torque mine to 35in/lbs*
> 
> 
> 
> They have not slipped at that torque and has not damaged my carbon soles. I recheck them after the first ride or two


Be careful, I just trashed a $400 pair of carbon soled shoes by following one of the above posts and doubt my new shoes were defective. I pulled the nut-sert out and at about 4 NM, which is about 35 In-lbs. I agree with using blue Lok-Tight but go easy on the torquing.


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## Lombard

Hy7seas said:


> Be careful, I just trashed a $400 pair of carbon soled shoes by following one of the above posts and doubt my new shoes were defective. I pulled the nut-sert out and at about 4 NM, which is about 35 In-lbs. I agree with using blue Lok-Tight but go easy on the torquing.


If you trashed the threads at 4Nm, it sounds like your torque wrench is defective. I torque mine to around 6Nm.


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## tlg

Hy7seas said:


> Be careful, I just trashed a $400 pair of carbon soled shoes by following one of the above posts and doubt my new shoes were defective. I pulled the nut-sert out and at about 4 NM, which is about 35 In-lbs. I agree with using blue Lok-Tight but go easy on the torquing.


"About 4NM"? What is "about"?
What brand shoe has a cleat screw torque significantly under 4NM? Because it'd have to be significantly under 4NM in order for you to have pulled the insert out.

Either the shoe was defective, the wrench was defective, or perhaps you converted wrong and used ft-lbs.


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## No Time Toulouse

Oh, wow, a 'cyclical dredge' thread! Like Lazarus, it keeps coming back from the dead!


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## Lombard

tlg said:


> "About 4NM"? What is "about"?
> What brand shoe has a cleat screw torque significantly under 4NM? Because it'd have to be significantly under 4NM in order for you to have pulled the insert out.
> 
> Either the shoe was defective, the wrench was defective, or perhaps you converted wrong and used ft-lbs.


Well 4Nm = 5.4ft-lbs, so I doubt that was it. I still vote for defective torque wrench. I had a Park Tool torque wrench I was suspicious about. I bought a better torque wrench and sure enough, when comparing, I could feel the Park Tool one was over torquing.


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## tlg

Lombard said:


> Well 4Nm = 5.4ft-lbs, so I doubt that was it. I still vote for defective torque wrench. I had a Park Tool torque wrench I was suspicious about. I bought a better torque wrench and sure enough, when comparing, I could feel the Park Tool one was over torquing.


No, I mean using 35 Ft-lbs instead of 35 In-lbs. 
Not an uncommon mistake.


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## Lombard

tlg said:


> No, I mean using 35 Ft-lbs instead of 35 In-lbs.
> Not an uncommon mistake.
> ​


​
Damn. I may be a bit tactily challenged, but I can't imagine anybody not being able to feel the difference between ft-lbs and in-lbs.


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## tlg

Lombard said:


> Damn. I may be a bit tactily challenged, but I can't imagine anybody not being able to feel the difference between ft-lbs and in-lbs.


A lot of people don't have a feel. Especially those who don't have experience with torque wrenches. They grab a wrench, set a number, and start turning. If you have a torque wrench graduated in Ft-Lbs, and you're turning 35 Ft-lbs instead of 35 In-lbs, it's gonna 'feel' really easy.


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## Lombard

tlg said:


> A lot of people don't have a feel. Especially those who don't have experience with torque wrenches. They grab a wrench, set a number, and start turning. If you have a torque wrench graduated in Ft-Lbs, and you're turning 35 Ft-lbs instead of 35 In-lbs, it's gonna 'feel' really easy.


Well IDK, a torque wrench that goes up into the 35ft-lb area is much larger than any tool a reasonable person would use to torque a shoe cleat. Granted there are some ham fisted DIYers out there, but I think this one is still a stretch.


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## No Time Toulouse

Lombard said:


> ​
> Damn. I may be a bit tactily challenged, but I can't imagine anybody not being able to feel the difference between ft-lbs and in-lbs.


 If you've worked on as many cars as I have, it's not hard to do. 10 ft-lbs feels like almost nothing at the end of a 3' torque wrench. Add to that the fact that I've managed on at least 3 occasions to break automotive lug bolts clean off a car, it's sometimes hard to transition into delicate work like a bike requires. I also have Reynaud's syndrome, and I couldn't tell the difference between 5Nm and 10Nm just by touch.


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## Lombard

No Time Toulouse said:


> If you've worked on as many cars as I have, it's not hard to do. 10 ft-lbs feels like almost nothing *at the end of a 3' torque wrench*. Add to that the fact that I've managed on at least 3 occasions to break automotive lug bolts clean off a car, it's sometimes hard to transition into delicate work like a bike requires. I also have Reynaud's syndrome, and I couldn't tell the difference between 5Nm and 10Nm just by touch.


Point taken about Reynaud's and tactile ability. However, I think most people can guess that a 3ft torque wrench is the wrong tool for cleat bolts.


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## tlg

Lombard said:


> Point taken about Reynaud's and tactile ability. However, I think most people can guess that a 3ft torque wrench is the wrong tool for cleat bolts.


And... most people don't rip the insert out of their shoes.

Ft-Lb torque wrenches come much smaller than 3'. I've got an 80 Ft-Lb wrench that's 13in.


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## Lombard

tlg said:


> And... most people don't rip the insert out of their shoes.
> 
> Ft-Lb torque wrenches come much smaller than 3'. I've got an 80 Ft-Lb wrench that's 13in.


13 inches is still a long wrench to be torquing little screws with. I use a torque wrench that is around 6 inches long that has a 3-15Nm range:






PRO Torque Wrench | Jenson USA







www.jensonusa.com





My larger torque wrench is used on things like cassettes and pedals.


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## tlg

Lombard said:


> 13 inches is still a long wrench to be torquing little screws with.


Stop thinking like someone who knows how to use tools. It's not about what you would do.

The point is.... it takes someone doing something that they shouldn't be doing to pull an insert from a shoe.
I gave a feasible explanation of what I have seen people do with torque wrenches.


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## Notvintage

Be mindful and install the screws without any lubricant. ANY lube/loctite will drastically change the developed pre-load at any particular torque value. I install dry at 5-Nm and recheck every now and again.


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## Lombard

tlg said:


> Stop thinking like someone who knows how to use tools. It's not about what you would do.
> 
> The point is.... it takes someone doing something that they shouldn't be doing to pull an insert from a shoe.
> I gave a feasible explanation of what I have seen people do with torque wrenches.


You do have a point. Heck, I used to work with someone who didn't know he didn't need paint thinner to clean latex paint off brushes.


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## Hy7seas

jrz1 said:


> I just bought a new pair of Mavic Huez road shoes. As I prepare to attach my Look Keo cleats to them I have a question that has come to mind every time I put new cleats on any carbon soled shoes. That question is how tight do you tighten the cleat screws? The Huez in particular is a very thin carbon sole. So much so that the shoes come with special, shorter, screws. Any time I work with carbon parts I try to use my torque wrench. However in this case I don't know what torque value to torque the screws to. Any help?:??


With Carbon soles I would not go over 4 Nm...then if the cleat does somehow move when riding (unlikely) you could go a tad higher and consider using blue Lock Tight


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## Finx




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## Lombard

Hy7seas said:


> With Carbon soles I would not go over 4 Nm...then if the cleat does somehow move when riding (unlikely) you could go a tad higher and consider using blue Lock Tight


I have carbon soles and tighten my cleats to 6Nm. I've never stripped a thread or pulled out an insert.


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## Lombard

Finx said:


> View attachment 478123


Was this sign in Maine?


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## tlg

If you think 5 or 6nm is going to damage your carbon sole, you probably shouldn't walk in them. They might asplode.


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## Mapei

I use a happy little Allen Key from a Craftsman key set. I put the short end into the bolt and torque the bolt down to the point where it'll be painful on the fingers & palm to go any further. Not that I'm a gorilla or a racer, but after riding over forty years, I think I've only had a cleat loosen up on me twice. Or was that thrice?


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