# Did Contador send a message today?



## DIRT BOY (Aug 22, 2002)

Message to Lance, Sorry Old Man, I am KING!


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## LWP (Jun 6, 2006)

Astana sent (another) message today. Despite all the press hype and speculation, they look like a team to me... a team that means business.


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## north_of_us (May 10, 2006)

Same message that was sent to him by Lance, when the train leaves the station you better be on it. Lance was nice and mad at the end during the interview, there was no way he could have made that move with Alberto, It was like the elastic snapped in the other direction, but he would have cut down the time. Was it me or Alberto just looked plain bored.


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## paba (Dec 30, 2004)

i don't think he really dropped Lance. Lance only lost 2 to him.


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## Frith (Oct 3, 2002)

Didn't you get the message?
It went something like this:
Threads about messages are so three days ago.


In all seriousness it wasn't a huge message as messages go. Conty basically just made some of the time that Lance gained in the flat stage where he got gapped.
We're effectively were we were before the tour started: Questionmarkville (only with more messages  )


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## haikalah (Oct 5, 2004)

Lance had said he'd let Conti go and mark the others. Now he's thinking to himself, "The young man can only manage 22 seconds on a large group being led by Bradley Wiggins, a track racer. I've got Conti where I want him. He'll be happy till he has a bad day, then it's lights out."


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## Used2Bhard (Sep 24, 2008)

*Agree*



Frith said:


> We're effectively were we were before the tour started: Questionmarkville (only with more messages  )


I agree...we still don't know squat.


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## fatheadfred (Feb 17, 2006)

The team is in perfect shape. If someone bombs out they still have 3 others to fill the role. 

Conti did look pretty good though, however there is a lot of poker going on right now.


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## danl1 (Jul 23, 2005)

DIRT BOY said:


> Message to Lance, Sorry Old Man, I am KING!


I think that was "Sorry, old man, I forgot there was still two weeks left in the race."


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## 32and3cross (Feb 28, 2005)

haikalah said:


> Lance had said he'd let Conti go and mark the others. Now he's thinking to himself, "The young man can only manage 22 seconds on a large group being led by Bradley Wiggins, a track racer. I've got Conti where I want him. He'll be happy till he has a bad day, then it's lights out."


Could happen, but its much more likely Lance will be the one having the bad day.

Between Evans and Wiggins pulling into a head wind on what is really a flatter climb toward the top Conti did well to keep that gap.


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## Pablo (Jul 7, 2004)

haikalah said:


> Lance had said he'd let Conti go and mark the others. Now he's thinking to himself, "The young man can only manage 22 seconds on a large group being led by Bradley Wiggins, a track racer. I've got Conti where I want him. He'll be happy till he has a bad day, then it's lights out."


Whatevs. So now Lance has lost time in the ITT and mountains to AC and it's only stage seven. Why would AC have gone full gas in the hills this early? Who's to think a young guy who's won all three grand tours is more likely to have a bad day than an old man?


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## rward325 (Sep 22, 2008)

LWP said:


> Astana sent (another) message today. Despite all the press hype and speculation, they look like a team to me... a team that means business.


Lance played the perfect team mate today. When AC went he just marked Cadel as he should have. Lance certainly did not look worked over in the after stage interviews. We have a long way to go to the end of the tour. That 123 Astana finish is looking quite possible though.


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## DIRT BOY (Aug 22, 2002)

Frith said:


> Didn't you get the message?
> It went something like this:
> Threads about messages are so three days ago.


LMAO, Ok....:thumbsup:


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## rocco (Apr 30, 2005)

Pablo said:


> Whatevs. So now Lance has lost time in the ITT and mountains to AC and it's only stage seven. Why would AC have gone full gas in the hills this early? Who's to think a young guy who's won all three grand tours is more likely to have a bad day than an old man?



Let's see who's faster in the flat 40K ITT... I already know who I'll be betting on.


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## north_of_us (May 10, 2006)

rocco said:


> Let's see who's faster in the flat 40K ITT... I already know who I'll be betting on.



Sparticus


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## Pablo (Jul 7, 2004)

rocco said:


> Let's see who's faster in the flat 40K ITT... I already know who I'll be betting on.


Cancellara?


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## kokothemonkey (Jul 7, 2004)

haikalah said:


> Lance had said he'd let Conti go and mark the others. Now he's thinking to himself, "The young man can only manage 22 seconds on a large group being led by Bradley Wiggins, a track racer. I've got Conti where I want him. He'll be happy till he has a bad day, then it's lights out."


Exactly. Does anyone on here honestly think LA is riding at Wiggins' pace?


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## smbrum (Jul 9, 2008)

i think it was a pretty good msg that I can go anytime I want and nobody has the acceleration to match me. Unless Conti has a big mechanical or crash I think LA and everyone else are fighting for the other 2 podium positions. He just looks to be in a whole different league


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## juswannaride (May 13, 2009)

No I dont think any message was sent except that Team Astana will be number 1 overall. Great riding though from the young frenchman winning the stage. As far as the top riders in Team Astana Id love to see Lance wear yellow again but with so many great riders in his team and others who knows....love watching the race and that is what matters to me.


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## OldEndicottHiway (Jul 16, 2007)

danl1 said:


> I think that was "Sorry, old man, I forgot there was still two weeks left in the race."


I am still after all these years trying to find something I like about Contador. He seems snively and untrustworthy. 

I can, however, respect his ability on the bike, but I derive no "inspiration" from his riding style, let alone his personality (or lack thereof). Would much rather see Sastre doing that well.


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## rocco (Apr 30, 2005)

Pablo said:


> Cancellara?



Amongst the actual final GC contenders... Duh!


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## Len J (Jan 28, 2004)

I'm sure many lance-ofiles will say that he was playing possum....but from what I saw.........he looked like he was at max when AC accelerated away & LA couldn't go with him (Neither could anyone else but Evans).

Barring an accident or a Bonk, I think LA is riding for one of the other steps on the podium.

Len


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## jupiterrn (Sep 22, 2006)

OldEndicottHiway said:


> I am still after all these years trying to find something I like about Contador. He seems snively and untrustworthy.
> 
> I can, however, respect his ability on the bike, but I derive no "inspiration" from his riding style, let alone his personality (or lack thereof). Would much rather see Sastre doing that well.


Yeah and he ain't Merican.


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## gh1 (Jun 7, 2008)

paba said:


> i don't think he really dropped Lance. Lance only lost 2 to him.


 might want to redo your math.


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## SilasCL (Jun 14, 2004)

rocco said:


> Let's see who's faster in the flat 40K ITT... I already know who I'll be betting on.


Care to tell us? I bet it will look a lot like stage one.


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## thechriswebb (Nov 21, 2008)

I don't know, I still think that Contador is prone to burning his matches too early. He can probably out-excelerate Armstrong, but I do not think that he is clearly and decisively better. Contador is really touchy and defensive about any question over his status as the world's greatest stage racer. Lance Armstrong is a very, very smart racer, and I'm not sure that I can say the same about Contador. I think that Contador couldn't stand being 18 seconds behind Armstrong and felt it necessary to close the gap. There is nothing wrong with that, but the question is whether or not he will waste too much energy trying to defeat Armstrong. I have a feeling that his attack today would not have happened if Armstrong were not in front of him. Contador is human, and he has been known to attack when he didn't need to. He shot himself in the foot doing just that at Paris-Nice. This is a mistake that Armstrong will not make, so Contador better be careful and remember that this race is three weeks long and that there are people on other teams that he needs to put away before he starts to worry about Armstrong. 

If Armstrong had been the one to attack today, I seriously doubt that Contador would have done what Lance did today and shift his focus to defending against Evans and Schleck since a teammate was up the road. He would have stuck to Lance's wheel to try and not lose time to him. That would be the WRONG ANSWER.

I am no Lance "fanboy" (is that word still allowed?) but I agree with him that Contador is his own worst enemy. Alberto Contador may be the one of the worlds most gifted athletes right now, but he may expend way too much energy trying to put down the wrong person.


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## rocco (Apr 30, 2005)

north_of_us said:


> Sparticus



As it stand now Cancellara is back by about what... 5:29ish minutes? You think Cancellara can beat everyone else by 5+ minutes? :idea:


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## Pablo (Jul 7, 2004)

rocco said:


> Amongst the actual final GC contenders... Duh!


Note the " ". I say AC turns up the heat.


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## rocco (Apr 30, 2005)

SilasCL said:


> Care to tell us? I bet it will look a lot like stage one.


Between AC and LA on a flat, non-technical 40K course... Mmmkay... who you bet on is none of my business.


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## Len J (Jan 28, 2004)

thechriswebb said:


> Alberto Contador may be the one of the worlds most gifted athletes right now, but he may expend way too much energy trying to put down the wrong person.


Let's see......he had one person ahead of him in the standings that was a GC threat........now he doesn't......How exactly is that trying to put down the wrong person?

Len


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## QuiQuaeQuod (Jan 24, 2003)

Len J said:


> I'm sure many lance-ofiles will say that he was playing possum....but from what I saw.........he looked like he was at max when AC accelerated away & LA couldn't go with him (Neither could anyone else but Evans).
> 
> Barring an accident or a Bonk, I think LA is riding for one of the other steps on the podium.
> 
> Len


I agree he seemed discomforted, though he did manage to cover all the attempts to catch AC. He looks to not have the extra bit to take GC to my eye.....

...at this point at least. Things can change in a day, much less a week.


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## JohnHenry (Aug 9, 2006)

IMO, the whole thing looked planned by JB


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## Chain (Dec 28, 2006)

It'a certainly a nice place for the team to be. Nice to have options if one crashes out or has a bad day.


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## j3fri (Dec 31, 2006)

JohnHenry said:


> IMO, the whole thing looked planned by JB


agree completely...


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## Len J (Jan 28, 2004)

dr hoo said:


> ...at this point at least. Things can change in a day, much less a week.


True Dat.

The TDF is, in one sense, about who deteriorates the least over the 3 weeks.

Len


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## paba (Dec 30, 2004)

is he not down 2 sec to conti and 8 sec to the guy in yellow?


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## Pablo (Jul 7, 2004)

Len J said:


> Let's see......he had one person ahead of him in the standings that was a GC threat........now he doesn't......How exactly is that trying to put down the wrong person?
> 
> Len


Agreed. It was also to set his team straight. If he had gone another day or two behind Lance, there would be RBR threads about what a weak leader AC is and how he hasn't asserted himself.


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## Chain (Dec 28, 2006)

j3fri said:


> agree completely...


It gives them a lot of options for playing with the other teams. Send one of the them up the road, the other teams have to cover. It doesn't matter which one. Keep the opposition guessing and wear them out.


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## LWP (Jun 6, 2006)

dr hoo said:


> I agree he seemed discomforted


I was looking at it from every pro-Lance angle I could come up with (outside of the ridiculous stuff) because I'd like to see him have a good tour whether he podiums or not... and I agree as well. He did the team thing exactly as he should have but I don't think going with Conti was in the tank today.


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## bauerb (Jan 18, 2006)

come on people: these teams follow scripts for as long as they are able. do you really think the AC "attack on LA" had not been previously discussed? i also watched the last 10k closely, I saw no discomfort from LA. I did see AC accelerate hard and show what a good climber he is. that said, the peloton being paced by Bradely Wiggins? what about Andy Schleck? do you also think that Andy couldn't match AC? at best the evidence against LA is inconclusive, and one good leg-stretcher from AC does not demonstrate that he will be there is 2 weeks. assuming LA continues what seems to be a norm for him: getting stronger as the days tick on, we will certainly see a real showdown in 10 days or so from now


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## rocco (Apr 30, 2005)

gh1 said:


> might want to redo your math.



ORLY?

1 Rinaldo Nocentini (Ita) AG2R La Mondiale 25:44:32 
2 Alberto Contador Velasco (Spa) Astana 0:00:06 
3 Lance Armstrong (USA) Astana 0:00:08


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## JohnHenry (Aug 9, 2006)

Chain said:


> It gives them a lot of options for playing with the other teams. Send one of the them up the road, the other teams have to cover. It doesn't matter which one. Keep the opposition guessing and wear them out.


Yup...


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## rocco (Apr 30, 2005)

Pablo said:


> Note the " ". I say AC turns up the heat.



We'll see...


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## coreyb (Aug 4, 2003)

rocco said:


> ORLY?
> 
> 1 Rinaldo Nocentini (Ita) AG2R La Mondiale 25:44:32
> 2 Alberto Contador Velasco (Spa) Astana 0:00:06
> 3 Lance Armstrong (USA) Astana 0:00:08


But the claim was that LA only lost 2 to AC, not that he stands 2 back.


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## Crithater (Sep 27, 2005)

Yeah....I hate you Lance, why did you come to my team?.....Hope Lance pays him back really soon.....


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## j3fri (Dec 31, 2006)

Chain said:


> It gives them a lot of options for playing with the other teams. Send one of the them up the road, the other teams have to cover. It doesn't matter which one. Keep the opposition guessing and wear them out.


yeah man... kloden,la,levi and contador.. so many cards... can send them one by one to attack and tire the pack... can see evans putting lots effort today to close the gap....


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## paba (Dec 30, 2004)

Like I’ve said all along, my first obligation is to the team,” Armstrong said during a TV interview after the stage. BS?


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## rocco (Apr 30, 2005)

Len J said:


> Let's see......he had one person ahead of him in the standings that was a GC threat........now he doesn't......How exactly is that trying to put down the wrong person?
> 
> Len



I agree. Even though there's still 2/3 of the Tour left I think there are only 2 or 3 more way points on the chess board to make potentially decisive moves for the top step on the podium in Paris.


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## culdeus (May 5, 2005)

paba said:


> i don't think he really dropped Lance. Lance only lost 2 to him.


lost two what? testicles?


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## root (Sep 13, 2007)

rocco said:


> Let's see who's faster in the flat 40K ITT... I already know who I'll be betting on.


I'll be betting on Cancellara to beat them both .


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## Len J (Jan 28, 2004)

paba said:


> is he not down 2 sec to conti and 8 sec to the guy in yellow?


He was 19 seconds ahead before this stage, now he is 2 seconds back...how much did he lose on this stage?

Len


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## thechriswebb (Nov 21, 2008)

Len J said:


> Let's see......he had one person ahead of him in the standings that was a GC threat........now he doesn't......How exactly is that trying to put down the wrong person?
> 
> Len


I'm just going off of what I have seen Contador do in the past and what he could do over the next two weeks. I'm not proclaiming myself to be the great tactical mastermind of cycling; I'm just sharing my perspective. In my personal opinion, I would think it unwise at this point to burn matches to eliminate Lance Armstrong (just my opinion  ) There are still two weeks of racing left, and there are other people who want to win. Everyone seems to have written off Evans, but he has obviously not given up. Andy Schleck wants it, and VDV is there too. I think Sastre is hiding right now and may show up later. Dynamics can change over two weeks, and some people get stronger. Astana is in a great position right now, but it is waaaaay too early to write off everyone else. 

The "textbook" move, with a guy on the team one second off of the yellow jersey, would be for the team to stay together and push their man as far as they could (I would think). It is possible that Contador's attack disrupted the pace of the leading group and may have cost Armstrong several seconds. In the end, the team only gained two seconds with Contador's effort, and I think that Lance (and the team as a whole) may have gained more time than that if he had not attacked; maybe enough to put Lance in yellow. Contador was not attacking Evans; he was attacking Armstrong. He was obviously more concerned with closing his own gap with Armstrong than getting Astana days in yellow. If I were DS (which I am not), I would not have ordered that move (I recall Bjarne Riis calling back Jens from a possible stage victory several years ago to assist Ivan Basso in gaining overall time). I don't think that I see JB ordering that move from Contador, as it was not a team move. I suppose that it is all well and good if Contador goes into Paris wearing yellow, but I am not yet convinced that Contador knows his own limits. Maybe he will rip the race apart with pure panache and win his 4th grand tour. I have seen him try this method and fail, though.

Just my humble opinion. We will see; it is still only week 1.

-Chris-


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## atimido (Jun 17, 2009)

I don't know think any message was sent, but I wish VS had their camera in Astana's Team Car. I can only imagine what Johan Bruyneel was doing in there. His head in his hands saying, "Oh man, Albi..." or was he yelling, "Go Albi, Go!!!!"

Ok, I'm a dork... :cornut:


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## barry1021 (Nov 27, 2005)

Len J said:


> I'm sure many lance-ofiles will say that he was playing possum....but from what I saw.........he looked like he was at max when AC accelerated away & LA couldn't go with him (Neither could anyone else but Evans).
> 
> Barring an accident or a Bonk, I think LA is riding for one of the other steps on the podium.
> 
> Len


Exactly, It's Contador's to lose now, that simple. If you doubt that, re-watch his break. No one else in the world at this time could have done that. Including Lance. IMO, the only way he can lose is if the team falls apart or he crashes. He can dominate the climbs and the team will have to work for him. If Lance is serious as to why he came back, he will work for an Astana 123 finish.


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## Len J (Jan 28, 2004)

thechriswebb said:


> I'm just going off of what I have seen Contador do in the past and what he could do over the next two weeks. I'm not proclaiming myself to be the great tactical mastermind of cycling; I'm just sharing my perspective. In my personal opinion, I would think it unwise at this point to burn matches to eliminate Lance Armstrong (just my opinion  ) There are still two weeks of racing left, and there are other people who want to win. Everyone seems to have written off Evans, but he has obviously not given up. Andy Schleck wants it, and VDV is there too. I think Sastre is hiding right now and may show up later. Dynamics can change over two weeks, and some people get stronger. Astana is in a great position right now, but it is waaaaay too early to write off everyone else.
> 
> The "textbook" move, with a guy on the team one second off of the yellow jersey, would be for the team to stay together and push their man as far as they could (I would think). It is possible that Contador's attack disrupted the pace of the leading group and may have cost Armstrong several seconds. In the end, the team only gained two seconds with Contador's effort, and I think that Lance (and the team as a whole) may have gained more time than that if he had not attacked; maybe enough to put Lance in yellow. Contador was not attacking Evans; he was attacking Armstrong. He was obviously more concerned with closing his own gap with Armstrong than getting Astana days in yellow. If I were DS (which I am not), I would not have ordered that move (I recall Bjarne Riis calling back Jens from a possible stage victory several years ago to assist Ivan Basso in gaining overall time). I don't think that I see JB ordering that move from Contador, as it was not a team move. I suppose that it is all well and good if Contador goes into Paris wearing yellow, but I am not yet convinced that Contador knows his own limits. Maybe he will rip the race apart with pure panache and win his 4th grand tour. I have seen him try this method and fail, though.
> 
> ...


Agree that it is only week 1.

What AC has to worry about coming into today was a.) LA ahead of him in the standings; b.) LA's historical maintenance of strength over 3 weeks & c.) LA's historical straight out TT dominance. Because of that, AC has to take time out of LA whereever he can. In this tour, there are only a select few stages where he can count on doing that...........today was one of those places...........he saw his chance and he took it.

Dousing his effort was why he didn't attack until the 5K or so mark.

I'm also getting more and more convinced that JB & LA know that LA isn't strong enough to win and their entire strategy is aimed at getting AC the win. A comparison of LA & AC's pulls in the TTT makes me believe that AC was being protected.
Today's attack fits that theory.

As you say, lot's of things can happen/

Len


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## rocco (Apr 30, 2005)

coreyb said:


> But the claim was that LA only lost 2 to AC, not that he stands 2 back.



He lost about 21 seconds within the stage and only 2 overall... neither are decisive gains.


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## rodster (Jun 29, 2006)

I listened to the eurosport coverage and live updates on VelonNews so I don't have the luxury of viewing the video evidence.

End result is that all of the pre-race contenders with the exception of AC finished in the same time.

Advantage Astana. One mountain top finish down and no seconds lost to any other contender. If you're more than 2 minutes behind AC today, your shot at the top step of the podium is OVER.

The acceleration by AC: If the object was to find out which non-Astana contenders had exceptional form and could stay with AC then the move had merit. If it was a move by AC to grab time then I think he left it far too late in the stage. 22 seconds is not a lot of time considering the energy expended. 

At the end of the day, my GUESS is that AC is Astana's no.1 and LA, followed by Klodi & Levi are the contingency plans should AC bonk or crash on a stage and lose time. All the flap about who is the real team leader is fodder to sell newspapers and keep the competition on their toes. While I have my doubts that LA could match AC's acceleration, the team play is shadow those contenders (pretenders?) that attempt to respond to the attack.


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## LWP (Jun 6, 2006)

paba said:


> Like I’ve said all along, my first obligation is to the team,” Armstrong said during a TV interview after the stage. BS?


Not BS. I don't doubt he'd be a much happier team member sitting in the #1 spot but, if that fails to happen, I also don't doubt he'll do what he has to do to help get that person to Paris as the winner. The only place Astana doesn't look like a solid team to me is in the writings of some drama-seeking members of the press.


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## Gnarly 928 (Nov 19, 2005)

Watching the replay of AC's attack...He surprised Lance as much as the rest of the front guys. He sat on Lance for most of that whole climb then dropped back to give himself room to work up the speed to surprise his "nemesis". He did that..He was twenty bike lengths up the road before Lance could even have got out of the saddle...So Lance got "snookered" by AC... He simply 'had' to sit or he'd have looked really bad chasing down that sneaky move..

Still very impressive riding by Astana...What was all this hoopla about Columbia anyhow? Was that some other Tour de France they were riding in before? Where is Cav in the over-all Tour De France anyhow...100th place +?

Contador (please, you who love him don't take offence) kinda looks like Gollum from the Lord of the Rings movie, doesn't he? Maybe the yellow jersey is "His Presciousssss" and he just 'had to have it'...

Jeeze, this is fun to spectate...


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## thechriswebb (Nov 21, 2008)

LWP said:


> . The only place Astana doesn't look like a solid team to me is in the writings of some drama-seeking members of the press.


Agree completely.


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## stevesbike (Jun 3, 2002)

I wonder how many people have actually looked at the race route - there is only one more summit finish before Ventoux, stage 15, and it isn't an HC climb. So, where is Contador going to attack???? Ventoux is not a good climb for a solo attack since it is almost always a strong headwind. GC is going to be decided in the ITT, and there LA has the advantage.


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## iamnotfilip (Jul 9, 2007)

rocco said:


> Let's see who's faster in the flat 40K ITT... I already know who I'll be betting on.


I guess Contador will bring more than just one American down to earth on that day.


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## Len J (Jan 28, 2004)

stevesbike said:


> I wonder how many people have actually looked at the race route - there is only one more summit finish before Ventoux, stage 15, and it isn't an HC climb. So, where is Contador going to attack???? Ventoux is not a good climb for a solo attack since it is almost always a strong headwind. GC is going to be decided in the ITT, *and there LA has the advantage*.


Based on what? He certainly hasn't done anything since his comeback that indicates he can dominate AC in an ITT. (Unless you've seen something I haven't)

len


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## kef3844 (May 30, 2008)

OldEndicottHiway said:


> I am still after all these years trying to find something I like . He seems snively and untrustworthy.
> .



I would say the same of Armstrong. If I was AC i would not trust LA as far as I could throw him. As for today, it was not a hard climb, and AC still gained time. LA looked like he was working to me, but who knows. When it gets steep AC will gain more time, i predict.
As for Carlos Sastre, I too wish he was doing better, he is a class rider.


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## rocco (Apr 30, 2005)

Len J said:


> Based on what? He certainly hasn't done anything since his comeback that indicates he can dominate AC in an ITT. (Unless you've seen something I haven't)
> 
> len



You keep saying that... LOL Keep holding on to that... keep pretending you didn't see him do much more quality work in the TTT than Contador... Let's bookmark these and take another look in a couple of weeks.


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## wipeout (Jun 6, 2005)

Lance will soon stomp Contador into submission.


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## rocco (Apr 30, 2005)

root said:


> I'll be betting on Cancellara to beat them both .



You're not exactly going out on a limb with that one but it won't be enough to miraculously win the Tour. If you want bet on a strong TTing dark horse winning it all then you might as well put it on Wiggins.


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## rocco (Apr 30, 2005)

iamnotfilip said:


> I guess Contador will bring more than just one American down to earth on that day.



We'll see... I sure wish I had a bunch of extra money laying around to place some big bets.


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## stevesbike (Jun 3, 2002)

there's nothing in his comeback that's a good indicator of his present form. I based my comment on LA's Tour history and the fact that he has more power than Contador for a flat ITT. It's possible that they'll go into it with the current time gap of 2 seconds and LA could pick up 30 seconds if he rides like he has in previous Tour ITTs.


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## Len J (Jan 28, 2004)

rocco said:


> You keep saying that... LOL Keep holding on to that... keep pretending you didn't see him do much more quality work in the TTT than Contador... Let's bookmark these and take another look in a couple of weeks.


You and I attribute different reasons for what happened in the TTT.

You think that LA was stronger than AC....while I think that JB had the team protect their leader and GC threat.

As I said elsewhere......as a viewer,I'd love to see AC put time in LA on stage 15, lose time to LA in the TT & have AC need to break LA on Ventoux to win. I just don't think it's likely.

len


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## Len J (Jan 28, 2004)

stevesbike said:


> there's nothing in his comeback that's a good indicator of his present form. I based my comment on LA's Tour history and the fact that he has more power than Contador for a flat ITT. It's possible that they'll go into it with the current time gap of 2 seconds and LA could pick up 30 seconds *if he rides like he has in previous Tour ITTs*.


Something he didn't do in stage 1.

Len


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## jsedlak (Jun 17, 2008)

Len J said:


> Something he didn't do in stage 1.
> 
> Len


Stage 1 was technical. The old man was probably scurred!

Seriously though I think Lance was playing it safe on the first TT. If he is down by 2 seconds in the 40k TT he will be going completely and utterly all out in an epic dash for glory.


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## kef3844 (May 30, 2008)

I think if LA could have followed Alberto today he would have.


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## Len J (Jan 28, 2004)

jsedlak said:


> Stage 1 was technical. The old man was probably scurred!
> 
> Seriously though I think Lance was playing it safe on the first TT. If he is down by 2 seconds in the 40k TT he will be going completely and utterly all out in an epic dash for glory.


& I'd love to see it....it would set up an epic ride up Ventoux.

I'm just not holding out much hope of it.

len


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## MG537 (Jul 25, 2006)

JohnHenry said:


> IMO, the whole thing looked planned by JB


Say all the nice things you want about AC, LA, LL, AK but please don't tell me that JB is a master strategist. AC fell on his lap like Basso almost did (if it weren't for Puerto).

That's like saying that Phil Jackson is one hell of coach. Let's see Jordan and Pippen on the same team or later on Shaq and Kobe. 
Or who was the coach for the 1992 Barcelona Olympics "dream team"? Bird, Magic, Barkley, Jordan, Stockton, Malone etc... all on the same team. I could've coached that team and still would've won the gold.


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## rocco (Apr 30, 2005)

Len J said:


> You and I attribute different reasons for what happened in the TTT.
> 
> You think that LA was stronger than AC....while I think that JB had the team protect their leader and GC threat.
> 
> ...



No... It's much more likely that AC and LA come out stage 15 status quo, AC loses time to LA in the ITT and AC has to find a way to break LA on Ventoux where there are serious headwinds to fight to win. Like I said elsewhere... I sure wish I had a bunch extra cash on hand to make some big bets.


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## den bakker (Nov 13, 2004)

MG537 said:


> Say all the nice things you want about AC, LA, LL, AK but please don't tell me that JB is a master strategist. AC fell on his lap like Basso almost did (if it weren't for Puerto).
> 
> That's like saying that Phil Jackson is one hell of coach. Let's see Jordan and Pippen on the same team or later on Shaq and Kobe.
> Or who was the coach for the 1992 Barcelona Olympics "dream team"? Bird, Magic, Barkley, Jordan, Stockton, Malone etc... all on the same team. I could've coached that team and still would've won the gold.


because it went so well with Ullrich, Kloeden and Vinokorouv on the same team....


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## Mel Erickson (Feb 3, 2004)

Len J said:


> I'm sure many lance-ofiles will say that he was playing possum....but from what I saw.........he looked like he was at max when AC accelerated away & LA couldn't go with him (Neither could anyone else but Evans).
> 
> Barring an accident or a Bonk, I think LA is riding for one of the other steps on the podium.
> 
> Len


I think it's hard to judge. One thing we don't know is what Bruyneel's orders were. Did he give the green light to Contador and everyone else to mark? Seems likely since Contador was the one who needed to make up some time (albeit small). In that case we really don't know if Armstrong could have stayed with him or not. We've seen that kind of acceleration from Armstrong in the past. What do you think would have happened if Contador was 19 seconds behind Armstrong and both were vying for the yellow jersey on the Ventoux stage? Do you think Armstrong would have been satisfied to sit and mark? We really didn't learn much from this stage, IMHO.


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## MG537 (Jul 25, 2006)

LWP said:


> Not BS. I don't doubt he'd be a much happier team member sitting in the #1 spot but, if that fails to happen, I also don't doubt he'll do what he has to do to help get that person to Paris as the winner. The only place Astana doesn't look like a solid team to me is in the writings of some drama-seeking members of the press.


LA is a "master media manipulator". If he can't win and AC does, he'll make it look like it's because of "his valuable experience" his teamate won.
Unfortunately the vast majority of bandwagon hoppers will gobble it up.


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## jsedlak (Jun 17, 2008)

MG537 said:


> Say all the nice things you want about AC, LA, LL, AK but please don't tell me that JB is a master strategist. AC fell on his lap like Basso almost did (if it weren't for Puerto).
> 
> That's like saying that Phil Jackson is one hell of coach. Let's see Jordan and Pippen on the same team or later on Shaq and Kobe.
> Or who was the coach for the 1992 Barcelona Olympics "dream team"? Bird, Magic, Barkley, Jordan, Stockton, Malone etc... all on the same team. I could've coached that team and still would've won the gold.


Speak of the talent of each rider as much as you want, but Lance didn't know what the hell he was doing pre-cancer. Johan taught him when to launch attacks and knows how to build a team to win the tour. Look at SL, a team supposedly built to help Evans win.

I think it is just the match of JB's brain and the team's talent and their ability to work together that makes Astana so strong.


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## MG537 (Jul 25, 2006)

den bakker said:


> because it went so well with Ullrich, Kloeden and Vinokorouv on the same team....


You're forgetting one little important detail. 
Hint: Initials are LA, team started with D-I-S and ended with V-E-R-Y.


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## Pablo (Jul 7, 2004)

MG537 said:


> LA is a "master media manipulator".


Exactly. He is the guy, after all, who spun a story about him knocking up an unmarried girl a decade his junior into a story about his super sperm.


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## den bakker (Nov 13, 2004)

MG537 said:


> You're forgetting one little important detail.
> Hint: Initials are LA, team started with D-I-S and ended with V-E-R-Y.


go back and watch how the team managed to self-destruct. I'm not saying they would win but they surely managed to screw up badly.


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## Pablo (Jul 7, 2004)

kef3844 said:


> I think if LA could have followed Alberto today he would have.


I'd agree. I find it hard to square why LA would steal 21 seconds early in a flat stage to gain an advantage only to give it up so easily.


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## moonstation2000 (Sep 5, 2008)

After what happened today it seems to me that Lance will be a team player. He had no gas to attack AC so he played good teammate instead. He didn't even try to chase so either AC is being protected by the whole team (incl LA) per team plans; or he took off and was faster in which case it's hard to believe LA would let him gain so much time on him if he had the ability to reel him in.


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## MG537 (Jul 25, 2006)

jsedlak said:


> Speak of the talent of each rider as much as you want, but Lance didn't know what the hell he was doing pre-cancer. Johan taught him when to launch attacks and knows how to build a team to win the tour. Look at SL, a team supposedly built to help Evans win.
> 
> I think it is just the match of JB's brain and the team's talent and their ability to work together that makes Astana so strong.


Didn't Johann replace Mark Gorski later on in USPS's history, after LA had won at least one TdF?


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## master2129 (Mar 30, 2007)

rocco said:


> ORLY?
> 
> 1 Rinaldo Nocentini (Ita) AG2R La Mondiale 25:44:32
> 2 Alberto Contador Velasco (Spa) Astana 0:00:06
> 3 Lance Armstrong (USA) Astana 0:00:08


He was taking about the time AC made up + the 2 second difference. The total time was 21 seconds for you mathematically challenged riders. :thumbsup:


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## jsedlak (Jun 17, 2008)

MG537 said:


> Didn't Johann replace Mark Gorski later on in USPS's history, after LA had won at least one TdF?


I am not sure - and I am not an expert on the history, in fact I am a total noob so it is possible. However, from reading Johan's book the picture was painted that Johan was there all along and responsible for turning Lance into a smart rider.


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## kingfisher (Mar 6, 2009)

*Modest Move*

It was really a very modest move by AC. I'm guessing it was purely to assert some dominance w/o totally violating a team plan of riding defensively in this stage.

It seems clear, though, that no one could follow that acceleration. It also seems clear that none of the other attacking GC contenders could put any time into the Astana squad as a whole.

I was actually a little disappointed in the Schlecks and Evans. I hoped there would be more of a concerted challenge today. 

Was glad to see VdV with the main GC bunch.


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## gizzard (Oct 5, 2005)

thechriswebb said:


> I don't know, I still think that Contador is prone to burning his matches too early. He can probably out-excelerate Armstrong, but I do not think that he is clearly and decisively better. Contador is really touchy and defensive about any question over his status as the world's greatest stage racer. Lance Armstrong is a very, very smart racer, and I'm not sure that I can say the same about Contador. I think that Contador couldn't stand being 18 seconds behind Armstrong and felt it necessary to close the gap. There is nothing wrong with that, but the question is whether or not he will waste too much energy trying to defeat Armstrong. I have a feeling that his attack today would not have happened if Armstrong were not in front of him. Contador is human, and he has been known to attack when he didn't need to. He shot himself in the foot doing just that at Paris-Nice. This is a mistake that Armstrong will not make, so Contador better be careful and remember that this race is three weeks long and that there are people on other teams that he needs to put away before he starts to worry about Armstrong.
> 
> If Armstrong had been the one to attack today, I seriously doubt that Contador would have done what Lance did today and shift his focus to defending against Evans and Schleck since a teammate was up the road. He would have stuck to Lance's wheel to try and not lose time to him. That would be the WRONG ANSWER.
> 
> I am no Lance "fanboy" (is that word still allowed?) but I agree with him that Contador is his own worst enemy. Alberto Contador may be the one of the worlds most gifted athletes right now, but he may expend way too much energy trying to put down the wrong person.


+1...couldn't have said it better myself.


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## MG537 (Jul 25, 2006)

jsedlak said:


> I am not sure - and I am not an expert on the history, in fact I am a total noob so it is possible. However, from reading Johan's book the picture was painted that Johan was there all along and responsible for turning Lance into a smart rider.


I did a quick Wiki search and JB was brought into the team in 1999. 
Before I go any further and get this thread moved, I will pull out of this discussion. However if you want to continue, you can start a thread at the very bottom of RBR forums on who or what is reponsible for LA's transformation.


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## Pablo (Jul 7, 2004)

thechriswebb said:


> I am no Lance "fanboy" (is that word still allowed?) but I agree with him that Contador is his own worst enemy. Alberto Contador may be the one of the worlds most gifted athletes right now, but he may expend way too much energy trying to put down the wrong person.


How is attacking the guy who could potentially win and potentially undermine your own team's support the "wrong person?"


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## rocco (Apr 30, 2005)

jsedlak said:


> Stage 1 was technical. The old man was probably scurred!
> 
> Seriously though I think Lance was playing it safe on the first TT. If he is down by 2 seconds in the 40k TT he will be going completely and utterly all out in an epic dash for glory.



He had no top quality time checks to meter of off and the stakes weren't high enough to take big chances on the descending portion of the course either.


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## lastchild (Jul 4, 2009)

OldEndicottHiway said:


> I am still after all these years trying to find something I like about Contador. He seems snively and untrustworthy.
> 
> I can, however, respect his ability on the bike, but I derive no "inspiration" from his riding style, let alone his personality (or lack thereof). Would much rather see Sastre doing that well.



I couldn't agree more.
He's ugly and gangly on the bike bike and he's got the personality of a slug.

But I can't deny his strength...


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## rocco (Apr 30, 2005)

master2129 said:


> He was taking about the time AC made up + the 2 second difference. The total time was 21 seconds for you mathematically challenged riders. :thumbsup:


Hopefully you can read. :thumbsup:


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## Mel Erickson (Feb 3, 2004)

Pablo said:


> I'd agree. I find it hard to square why LA would steal 21 seconds early in a flat stage to gain an advantage only to give it up so easily.


He gained 21 seconds but it was being smart rather than a calculated move. Today was a calculated move, both on Contadors and Armstrongs. In a post race interview Armstrong said it wasn't a climb that suited his attacking style. Seems clear he's waiting for the TT and Ventoux. Armstrong lost some and gained some today. He lost 21 seconds to Contador. He gained some team mojo by being a team player (something he's been the whole Tour thus far) and he got a glimpse into Contadors psyche. On the other hand, Armstrong is still as much an enigma to Contador as he was before the Tour started.


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## RSPDiver (Jun 3, 2006)

For all intents and purposes, isn't AC wearing a huge MJ right now? And, if both of them are still contending, he has to virtually defend his virtual yellow jersey from attack. I think I'd rather be 2 seconds down than have a huge target on my back...if I was a pro bike racer in that kind of league, that is.


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## karatemom (Mar 21, 2008)

Actually, Contador is not in yellow, he's two six seconds back. And he probably already has a target of sorts on his back. 

I was hoping this would miraculously be Cancellara's year. Oh, well--he's still not a climber, but I can't remember him holding on to yellow so long before.


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## hllclmbr (Jul 30, 2006)

Len J said:


> I'm sure many lance-ofiles will say that he was playing possum....but from what I saw.........he looked like he was at max when AC accelerated away & LA couldn't go with him (Neither could anyone else but Evans).
> 
> Barring an accident or a Bonk, I think LA is riding for one of the other steps on the podium.
> 
> Len


Evans went with Contador?

Are you in an alternate dimension?


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## RSPDiver (Jun 3, 2006)

I know he's not actually in yellow, but virtually, as the odds-on fav. And closest to it. Kinda like Lance was, when AC jumped today.


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## Pablo (Jul 7, 2004)

Mel Erickson said:


> He gained 21 seconds but it was being smart rather than a calculated move. Today was a calculated move, both on Contadors and Armstrongs. In a post race interview Armstrong said it wasn't a climb that suited his attacking style. Seems clear he's waiting for the TT and Ventoux. Armstrong lost some and gained some today. He lost 21 seconds to Contador. He gained some team mojo by being a team player (something he's been the whole Tour thus far) and he got a glimpse into Contadors psyche. On the other hand, Armstrong is still as much an enigma to Contador as he was before the Tour started.


I just don't see how LA gained anything, other than a view of the types of accelerations that AC can make in the hills.


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## paco_finn (Mar 8, 2006)

*Entertaining!!*

We don't know squat, and that is the point! We really won't know much until the last week of the tour and maybe not even then.

Most of these posts must be from people that have never bike raced or been on a team or at least not on a successful one. If LA could or could not match AC today, we will not know as he did not try nor should he have tried. LA did what he had to do in that situation, plain and simple. I don't think he was happy that he may have been "forced" into that role by AC.

Always remember that races are seldom won by the fastest person, if you don't know that, you have not raced before.

Let's let the race play out and keep us entertained, that is the best we can hope for.


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## j3fri (Dec 31, 2006)

i thought contador did well today despite attacking without astana plan.... he attacked with abt 2km to go,i dun think he used up tat much energy even though the tour is still 2 weeks long... plus there's only 2 mountaintop finish left,if he didnt gain time today,not much chance for him to gain time in future...

in stage 15 and ventoux,there might be circumstances which might barred him from attacking the pack for example maybe there'll be a teammate upfront(kloden or levi) thus he has to stay with the pack controlling the pace...

today he was lucky tat his attack didnt bring any other gc contender along.. andy schleck tried to follow him followed by evans which was covered by lance... but contador was far too fast and wiggins,evans,schlecks and others are forced to work to close the gap while astana could slack and draft...

no doubt lance and his fans would be pissed at conti today but i think conti did well.. he gain 21 seconds over his rivals gc contender,that is the most important... yeah,now he's only 2 seconds over lance,but who cares... he's not only fighting lance for tdf but also other riders...

i can predict tat levi or lance might attack or follow attack and contador might be forced to stay in the pack due to some circumstances... but who knows.. this tour is unpredictable,which makes it very exciting...

nevertheless,i'm glad evans tried to attack and shred the pack a little and followed by contador... if wasnt for those two,this stage would have been pretty boring...


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## Mel Erickson (Feb 3, 2004)

Pablo said:


> I just don't see how LA gained anything, other than a view of the types of accelerations that AC can make in the hills.


We all know Armstrong tries to get into other cyclists heads and is a master at it. Up to this point it wasn't clear whether he was getting into Contadors head yet or not. Contadors move was confirmation to Armstrong that his little game of psychology was working. Just a theory but fun to think about.


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## den bakker (Nov 13, 2004)

Mel Erickson said:


> We all know Armstrong tries to get into other cyclists heads and is a master at it. Up to this point it wasn't clear whether he was getting into Contadors head yet or not. Contadors move was confirmation to Armstrong that his little game of psychology was working. Just a theory but fun to think about.


and if Contador had not attacked it was clearly a sign that Armstrongs mind games had paralysed him :thumbsup:


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## LWP (Jun 6, 2006)

den bakker said:


> and if Contador had not attacked it was clearly a sign that Armstrongs mind games had paralysed him :thumbsup:


...and if Lance farted while Contador was on his wheel it means...  

1/3 think everything is a sign of Lance greatness, 1/3 think everything is a sign of Lance weakness... and the rest of us are just enjoying the race and waiting to see what happens.


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## godot (Feb 3, 2004)

LWP said:


> ...and if Lance farted while Contador was on his wheel it means...
> 
> 1/3 think everything is a sign of Lance greatness, 1/3 think everything is a sign of Lance weakness... and the rest of us are just enjoying the race and waiting to see what happens.



I've actually reached the point where the psycho-babble on RBR is more entertaining than the race itself


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## cyclejim (Mar 31, 2004)

godot said:


> I've actually reached the point where the psycho-babble on RBR is more entertaining than the race itself


Totally agree!!


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## daveloving (Jan 5, 2009)

In VeloNews: ' Armstrong said he followed the team plan to the letter by following the chasers while Contador sped away, coming within seconds of taking the yellow jersey and passing Armstrong on the GC. 

"That's what you've got to do when you've got a guy up there. My obligation is to the team ... you gotta just stay on the wheel, that's bike racing." '

Armstrong is no fool, and has probably forgotten more about racing and team dynamics than most of us will ever learn. He knows what he has in AC. Where they went wrong today was in letting the attack get out of hand and not reeling them in soon enough. Had they been able to take care of that AC would be in the yellow jersey. So the attack on AC's part was not to plan, in that it didn't work. That was no surprise; that's the plan that did not work out. Just my 2 cents...


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## godot (Feb 3, 2004)

daveloving said:


> Where they went wrong today was in letting the attack get out of hand and not reeling them in soon enough. Had they been able to take care of that AC would be in the yellow jersey. That was no surprise; that's the plan that did not work out. Just my 2 cents...


Funny, velonews has an article by Andrew Hood saying that JB was calling for Astana to slow down near the end of the climb because he doesn't want to have to defend the yellow jersey all the way to the alps.


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## tete de la tour (Oct 26, 2006)

After todays stage it confirmed to me that :
1. LA is Very strong, stronger than I thought.
2. Contrador looked very gassed at the end of a relatively short climb and would have been caught on a longer one.
3. As much as I hate to believe it, I now think lance will win. 


Contador watts jumping will kill him in the long run. these climbs in the 3rd week are LONG!! going up to 800 watts or whatever and dropping back down to 300 is not good for any engine. doing this over a very long climb will hurt him. 

Also one cannot use the St. 1 TT as a good marker because sneaky lance went out early. no measuring stick, no real time checks, and had no tail wind as many have stated was the case later in the day. More importantly , it is now obvious he paced up the climb in the TT. Because the old man has legs. 

it happened before and I see it happening again.

wiggins today. WOW. 

Sastre and boys will collab and things will get very interesting. 

I still think cadel will be a force.


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## izzyfly (Jul 10, 2009)

*It's the age..too. (lest we forget*

I agree LA is gonna win this - at least the mental game - But at 37, LA's maximum HR is not nearly as high as a 26 year old . So mental game plan, yes - Hands on field battle on the long climbs coming up, this may be questionable, unless he's willing to blow off a valve on one of his pistons.


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## tri-ac (Aug 4, 2008)

LA got beat mentally this time

AC found a spot in the race where LA couldn't follow because it would highlight his lack of team sportsmanship. AC toed the line of honor with his acceleration, but to follow, LA would have to jump over the line.

so, here we sit, everyone is effectively even...and the pot is boiling steadily now!

good stuff all around!


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## Tschai (Jun 19, 2003)

bauerb said:


> come on people: these teams follow scripts for as long as they are able. do you really think the AC "attack on LA" had not been previously discussed? i also watched the last 10k closely, I saw no discomfort from LA. I did see AC accelerate hard and show what a good climber he is. that said, the peloton being paced by Bradely Wiggins? what about Andy Schleck? do you also think that Andy couldn't match AC? at best the evidence against LA is inconclusive, and one good leg-stretcher from AC does not demonstrate that he will be there is 2 weeks. assuming LA continues what seems to be a norm for him: getting stronger as the days tick on, we will certainly see a real showdown in 10 days or so from now


I agree 100% that today Astana followed the team script, no ifs, ands or buts. It would be insanity if AC rode out of script today.


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## vandalbob (Dec 13, 2001)

Len J said:


> I'm also getting more and more convinced that JB & LA know that LA isn't strong enough to win and their entire strategy is aimed at getting AC the win. A comparison of LA & AC's pulls in the TTT makes me believe that AC was being protected.
> Today's attack fits that theory.
> 
> As you say, lot's of things can happen/
> ...


Agree with you I do. Also believe AC needed to get a monkey off his back and perhaps "went off script." Oh well, it was a nice accleration out of the pack....like a cat out of a cannon? or something like that.


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## uzziefly (Jul 15, 2006)

rocco said:


> No... It's much more likely that AC and LA come out stage 15 status quo, AC loses time to LA in the ITT and AC has to find a way to break LA on Ventoux where there are serious headwinds to fight to win. Like I said elsewhere... I sure wish I had a bunch extra cash on hand to make some big bets.


Contador was 2nd to FC in the ITT.

The best TT-er in the world.

You keep saying LA will win the ITT now like you almost know something.

I say it's possible. But it's also possible Contador beats him.


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## thechriswebb (Nov 21, 2008)

I've watched the stage again and I have changed my mind about some things. 

- LA was probably not up to chasing after Alberto (which would have been very bad form anyway).

- Not only Astana riders, but Andy Schleck (and others, I'm sure) also seemed to feel that AC's move was on the sketchy side.

- I don't think that Contador's attack was as impressive as some. It was an unnecessary expenditure of energy into a pretty tough headwind. He didn't really accomplish that much anyway, for the amount of effort that it took to break away from everybody at that point. He still got punked by the breakaway, and he gained a whopping 2 seconds on Armstrong (which I am sure was his true objective).

- I get the impression that the peloton doesn't like AC very much....

- Nothing definitive really happened in this stage (between LA and AC). For all practical purposes, they are tied with each other.

- As I have said before, I am not a Lance fanboy; I actually used to be among those who hated him. He looks very, very good though; much better I think than most people expected. Perhaps Contador will beat him, but I don't think he will annihilate him. 

-Has Contador ever really dominated a Grand Tour? He has won all three, and I am not attempting to belittle that, but in both his Tour and Vuelta victories, a teammate named Leipheimer was breathing down his neck enough to piss him off. People on RBR are quick to pooh pooh the idea of Leipheimer winning a Grand Tour, but Contador beats him by the skin of his teeth and gets called the greatest stage racer in the world? Also, in real time Leipheimer was REALLY on top of Contador in both the Tour and the Vuelta. In the Tour, Levi was penalized for spending too much time with the team car. Otherwise, he would have been a very close second behind Contador and ahead of Evans. In the Vuelta, Levi's real time was actually equal to Contador's, but the Vuelta uses time bonuses which worked in Contador's favor. In Contador's Giro victory, Levi was sick. The difference in Levi's and Contador's real time in the 07 Tour and 08 Vuelta adds up to about 20 seconds. Not much of a difference between someone who "will never win a Grand Tour" and the "greatest stage racer in the world." Also, in the 07 tour Contador was losing definitively to the real best climber in the world..

Congratulations to Contador for his very legitimate Grand Tour victories. He is exceptionally talented, but I do not think that he is a dominating rider in the manner of Mercxx or Hinault (at least not yet; he is still young). If nothing more, I think the old man is going to give him a run for his money. 

-Chris-


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## Len J (Jan 28, 2004)

uzziefly said:


> Contador was 2nd to FC in the ITT.
> 
> The best TT-er in the world.
> 
> ...


After watching the replay tonight.......I wondered.......

If a teammate had attacked him like Contador did today anytime between 1999 & 2005, what would his reaction have been on the mountain? Answer that question and you might have some insight into the difference in fitness.

IMO

Len


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## 55x11 (Apr 24, 2006)

izzyfly said:


> I agree LA is gonna win this - at least the mental game - But at 37, LA's maximum HR is not nearly as high as a 26 year old . So mental game plan, yes - Hands on field battle on the long climbs coming up, this may be questionable, unless he's willing to blow off a valve on one of his pistons.


Sure, LA will win "mental game". But Contador will win the Tour. Is there a "mental game" yellow jersey in TdF?  

Also, even if I am proven wrong in the above statement, I will at least claim to have won the "mental game".


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## tete de la tour (Oct 26, 2006)

thechriswebb said:


> I've watched the stage again and I have changed my mind about some things.
> 
> - LA was probably not up to chasing after Alberto (which would have been very bad form anyway).
> 
> ...


Agreed w every single word. IMHO AC is overrated in terms of GT champions. however if he wins this year I will give him solid credit. LL and Kloden are the real deal. 

I would still love to see garmin high up on the GC when the dust settles.


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## atimido (Jun 17, 2009)

rocco said:


> You keep saying that... LOL Keep holding on to that... keep pretending you didn't see him do much more quality work in the TTT than Contador... Let's bookmark these and take another look in a couple of weeks.


Not only was his work of higher quality, he did the majority of the work for the team. Its hard to predict who is going to win the Tour at this point, but anyone who thinks Lance is weak and didn't chase Contador because he was burned out is foolish. If he wanted to try to chase Contador he would have, and it didn't even look like he thought about it.


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