# Randoneuring Bike Necessary?



## rhino biker (Nov 28, 2006)

I'm going to give a couple of brevets a try (200-300 km) to see if I like long distance unsupported rambles. Silly question but I hear cyclists "in-the-know" always talking about custom or semi-custom steel framed bikes as essential to randoneuring. Are they necessary or would something like a Spec Roubaix triple and an ultra-lightweight day pack on my back be appropriate as the kit of choice? 

Jack


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## MB1 (Jan 27, 2004)

No question a comfortable bike is nice for long distance riding (and that is all that Randonneuring is) but there is no real reason that any bike with the right gear range for the route won't do just fine.

BTW I would think twice about carrying any extra weight on the rider for your first few really long distance rides. Just think about what that extra gear is going to do for your saddle/bottom interface.........


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## rcnute (Dec 21, 2004)

I did a double century on a carbon Roubaix. It worked just fine.


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## MB1 (Jan 27, 2004)

rcnute said:


> I did a double century on a carbon Roubaix. It worked just fine.


Was the Double Century supported or unsupported? There is a big difference between an organized and supported Double and any of the longer Randonneur distances. Carrying all your own stuff and having to find places for food and water make a big difference on what you lug along on a ride and how you pace yourself.


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## oarsman (Nov 6, 2005)

MB1 said:


> Was the Double Century supported or unsupported? There is a big difference between an organized and supported Double and any of the longer Randonneur distances. Carrying all your own stuff and having to find places for food and water make a big difference on what you lug along on a ride and how you pace yourself.


This is very true. While I don't suppose one needs a "special" brevet bike, if you are planning to do the long rides I think the bike should have:

1) nice long chainstays
2) good brake clearance for fenders with, say 28c tires (300 km rides in the rain without fenders are not nice, and you may need fenders depending on the rules of the ride)
3) laid back geometry for comfort
4) a somewhat upright sitting position for those all day [and night] rides
5) proper gearing, probably a triple, although a compact double might work
6) good lights (I like a dynamo hub)
7) the ability to carry some gear (plenty of clothes, enough food, tools) on the bike itself


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## rcnute (Dec 21, 2004)

MB1 said:


> Was the Double Century supported or unsupported? There is a big difference between an organized and supported Double and any of the longer Randonneur distances. Carrying all your own stuff and having to find places for food and water make a big difference on what you lug along on a ride and how you pace yourself.


Supported. True in terms of carrying stuff (though it did the job for unsupported centuries). One reason why I sold it and am now a ferrophile/fenderite/mudguardian myself.


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## rhino biker (Nov 28, 2006)

what are some of the bikes or frames you suggest?


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## tarwheel2 (Jul 7, 2005)

I don't think there's anything wrong with your current bike if it fits. The main issue is carrying extra gear, water, lights, etc. I would avoid the backpack route unless it is a very comfortable Camelbak with some storage capacity. Personally, I wouldn't want to ride 20 miles, let alone 120 miles, with a backpack. Look into getting one of the larger seatbags made by Jandd or Carradice to carry extra gear. The Carradice Barley would be just about ideal size for brevet length ride. There's a guy on eBay that sells Barley knockoffs (search for Acorn in the cycling pages) that look very nice. I would recommend getting the optional Carradice Bagman rack if you get one of their bags. It keeps the bag from swaying and hitting your legs. Lights are essential if you are riding long enough to be in low-light conditions. Check out the Fenix flashlights for a bright, light-weight and inexpensive option. Don't forget a good tail-light (or several) such as the Planet Bike Superflash.


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## MB1 (Jan 27, 2004)

rhino biker said:


> what are some of the bikes or frames you suggest?


Miss M and I have Rivendells (All Rounder for her Rambouillet for me) and Waterfords (RS22 for both of us) but a nice Gunnar Sport ought to do for a whole lot less $$$.


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## endure26 (Jan 27, 2005)

Steel or ti frames tend to be a more forgiving ride than carbon. Few carbon frames include fender/rack mounts and most seem to be oriented towards an agressive riding style (though some of that can be dealt with through component changes). I'm seriously considering a Salsa Casseroll for this type of riding. At least in my size the geo looks pretty comfy and the price is right. 

I like a handlebar bag as it gives me easy access to food and drink and helps me remember to eat (my last century was done on 2-pbars and four bottles of water - duh) also provides a nice place for a map (map case on top). I'd stay away from anything on your back as others have said. I'm not a fan of the large seat bags as they seem to whack my legs and are kinda overkill in size.

You can use many handlebar bags or a seatpost rack/rack trunk without eyelets/mounts. Old Man Mountain makes traditional style racks, if you're style conscious, that mount via the QR and stays. SKS and others make clip on fenders if the weather warrants.

Edit: Here is a link to Randonneurs USA - you can find lots of information, links to local info and other sites, and events...

http://www.rusa.org/index.html


*************************************


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## KeeponTrekkin (Aug 29, 2002)

*Use the bike you have...*

before you buy a randonneuring bike. Make sure you like the saddle as you'll be very familiar with it by the end of a 300k. Many love the tradidional Brooks B-17 or its siblings. A newcomer to this field is Selle An-Atomica. I have one and like it a lot.

The oversized seat bag is a great suggestion. You'll need a place to put outer layers as the sun rises and the day warms up. You'll also need space for more spares and tools than you probably take on regular or supported rides, possibly rain gear.

You shouldn't need to carry too much food or water. Most brevets incorporate food stops into controles (the checkpoints you must reach within time limits to officially complete the brevet) where you can buy what you need. Some like to use performance food type products, e.g. Hammer products, etc.; you don' t need to go there to have a good time and if you choose them, you must provide your entire supply.

Lights are required for 300k and most 200k. LED technology gives you more choices with manageable weight. Since LED lights need so much less power than halogen, they carry smaller batteries so they are more than just alternatives to a generator hub. Don' t forget you need light to see your cue sheet and odometer too. A small helmet mounted light is more than an asset, it's a necessity.

Bonne route.


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## ispoke (Feb 28, 2005)

Big seat bags are all the rage these days, especially with the 'practical' crowd. Although I'm very much about practicality, I can't quite get over the aesthetics. Something about a huge bag under my skinny arse. But a buddy with a big upper body and wide rear end doesn't look so silly atop his Carradice bag. YMMV.

On a recent self-supported century with variable weather, I packed extra gear in a rack trunk. Now I gotta say, rack trunks are Fredish with a capital "F". And if the mount isn't secure, it may tend to rock from side to side when you're climbing unseated. But it worked great and on a long ride I tend to think its aerodynamics (less frontal area) are favorable to a honking seat bag.

But if you're not prone to feeling judged by others on your looks, either solution would work fine!


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## RedRex (Oct 24, 2004)

I train for double centuries and 24 hour races. For carrying gear, I use a Performance trunk rack (clips to my seatpost) with an REI truck rack bag, or I skip the bag and just use a stuff sack held down by a web/net from Performance. Last weekend I carried my rain jacket, extra socks/gloves/skull cap, lemonade mix, and a loaf of bread in this trunk rack bag. Works fine.

Under no circumstances should you use a backpack. Trust me. In fact I HATE full jersey pockets after all-day distances, so if the ride is unsupported I carry the rack.

http://www.performancebike.com/shop/profile.cfm?SKU=19329&subcategory_ID=2325

I don't like the quick release racks because the clamp is too wide and my thighs rub the clamp. I MUCH prefer the above rack.

With this bag...

http://www.rei.com/product/733834

If I'm just carrying food (summer long rides)....I use an old stuff sack with this on the rack....

http://www.performancebike.com/shop/profile.cfm?SKU=489&subcategory_ID=2328

Bike? I ride a custom steel frame with no panniers. I make the above rack/bag work, even for multiple day credit card tours.


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## Dale Brigham (Aug 23, 2002)

*"Bags? We don't need no stinkin' bags!"*

Rhino:

Your bike sounds just fine. It would be right in line with what I saw 80% plus of Paris-Brest-Paris randos riding last August -- a regular road bike, perhaps with lowish gears.

As for bags and such, unless you are doing multi-day unsupported rides, there's simply not that much need for a bag (excepting an under-saddle spare-tubes-and-tools small bag) for anything up to and including a 400 km brevet, in my experience. Take outerwear (wind/rain jacket or vest) that can fit in your jersey pocket when you don't need it, and stop for food and fluids every few hours at a convenience store or other roadside vendor.

I am not anti-bag (I own several nice ones), but over my decade of randonneuring, I have found that the less I carry and muck about with, the happier I am. I have seen plenty of sub-20 pound bikes burdened with 10 pounds or more of stuff. I just plug along on my 22 pound bike with a pound or two of spares and tools, lights when needed, and nothing else.

I do hope you ride the brevets in your area -- it's a great part of the cycling experience.

Bonne Route!

Dale


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## rhino biker (Nov 28, 2006)

thanks! curious... what do you ride?


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## biknben (Jan 28, 2004)

I've done a couple full series of brevets. I've used different bikes. I don't think the specific bike matters as long as it fits and you are confortable. I've done a series on a Surly Cross-Check. Then did it again on a C'Dale SystemSix. Each had pros and cons but I was comfortable on both. That is what matters to me.


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## lemonlime (Sep 24, 2003)

*Ben!*



biknben said:


> I've done a couple full series of brevets. I've used different bikes. I don't think the specific bike matters as long as it fits and you are confortable. I've done a series on a Surly Cross-Check. Then did it again on a C'Dale SystemSix. Each had pros and cons but I was comfortable on both. That is what matters to me.


Where the hell have you been? And can you repost your how-to on the fancy bar wrapping job?


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## Dale Brigham (Aug 23, 2002)

rhino biker said:


> thanks! curious... what do you ride?


I rode my last two PBPs and Cascade 1200 on a Steelman 525 cyclocross bike with bar-end shifters, but I am a crusty, old-fashioned git, so don't read too much into that. I rode another PBP on a Kona Jake the Snake aluminum-framed cyclocross bike, a bunch of brevets on a Steelman SR 525 road bike, and one or two on a Colnago Crystal (the old steel one, not the new carbon one) road bike.

Fat tires (25 mm or larger width), a good saddle, a comfy position, and good shorts and gloves make more difference to me in the ride of a bike than frame material. You see lots of carbon frames on brevets these days, but also alu, steel, and ti ones. They all work just fine!

Hope to see you out there on a brevet someday, Rhino!

Dale


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## superjohnny (May 16, 2006)

Isn't a 1200 like 745 miles? How long does that take?


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## Dale Brigham (Aug 23, 2002)

superjohnny said:


> Isn't a 1200 like 745 miles? How long does that take?


About 82 to 84 hours for me on the four 1200 km randonnees I have done (3 PBPs and 1 Cascade 1200). Some folks are a lot faster, like under 50 hours. The time limit is 90 hours.

Just to make it more fun, the actual distances of the 1200s I have done have ranged from about 760 to 780 miles. After all, what's another 20 or 30 miles when you are having fun?

Dale


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## biknben (Jan 28, 2004)

lemonlime said:


> Where the hell have you been? And can you repost your how-to on the fancy bar wrapping job?


I'm floating around and still stop in here from time to time. I guess I grew tired of the same questions and answers. I'm still doing the same old things. Just spending less time around here. Thanks for asking.

You can find links to my weave wrap by searching the threads. Search for biknben, weave, wrap. Rivendel also has some explanation on their site. Unfortunately, it is impossible to explain. You have to see it in progress. I figured it out after much frustration. I've done it about 5-7 times now. 

I just added a little something to this thread. 
http://forums.roadbikereview.com/showthread.php?p=1398389#post1398389

Happy Wrapping!!!


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## bigrider (Jun 27, 2002)

biknben said:


> I'm floating around and still stop in here from time to time. I guess I grew tired of the same questions and answers. I'm still doing the same old things. Just spending less time around here. Thanks for asking.
> 
> You can find links to my weave wrap by searching the threads. Search for biknben, weave, wrap. Rivendel also has some explanation on their site. Unfortunately, it is impossible to explain. You have to see it in progress. I figured it out after much frustration. I've done it about 5-7 times now.
> 
> ...


We thought you got hit by a car. If you get tired of the same old same old stop in the Lounge. Some brilliance mingled in with stupidity.


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## biknben (Jan 28, 2004)

bigrider said:


> We thought you got hit by a car. If you get tired of the same old same old stop in the Lounge. Some brilliance mingled in with stupidity.


I hope you are kidding about the car thing. Would hate for people to have been concerned. I haven't had any issues regarding traffic lately. I tried hangin in the lounge for a while. I simply couldn't keep up. 

I was disappointed I couldn't make it to the last DC gathering. I was going to offer to pick you up again but saw that you couldn't make it either.

Enjoy the road.


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## bigrider (Jun 27, 2002)

biknben said:


> I hope you are kidding about the car thing. Would hate for people to have been concerned. I haven't had any issues regarding traffic lately. I tried hangin in the lounge for a while. I simply couldn't keep up.
> 
> I was disappointed I couldn't make it to the last DC gathering. I was going to offer to pick you up again but saw that you couldn't make it either.
> 
> Enjoy the road.



Yeah I was kidding about the car but have been disappointed I haven't seen you on the board. Don't be such a stranger.


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## rhino biker (Nov 28, 2006)

*a steel frame*

so what is it about a steel frame that would move some to spend thousands on that 'next' bike... setting aside their carbon wonder when going on a rando? is steel so plush that it really is da bomb? is it real or is it classic mystique?


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## bigrider (Jun 27, 2002)

rhino biker said:


> so what is it about a steel frame that would move some to spend thousands on that 'next' bike... setting aside their carbon wonder when going on a rando? is steel so plush that it really is da bomb? is it real or is it classic mystique?



I think one of the main reasons you don't hear carbon mentioned much in the randonneur circles is no one makes a touring carbon frame that I know of.

As far as comfort when riding, I would place the following factors in order of comfort factor

Tire pressure/size
Frame geometry/design
Frame material

I think the reason most people rage about steel is that you can get a steel frame that you can fit wide tires on with a longer wheelbase and less twitchy steering. Couple that with the ability to custom order the steel bike to give you a perfect fit and what is not to like.

There aren't many truly custom carbon builders. It just isn't cost effective to use carbon to build custom one off bike frames.


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## Dale Brigham (Aug 23, 2002)

*Da' Big Rider speaks da' truth*



bigrider said:


> I think the reason most people rage about steel is that you can get a steel frame that you can fit wide tires on with a longer wheelbase and less twitchy steering. Couple that with the ability to custom order the steel bike to give you a perfect fit and what is not to like.


As Bigrider sez, you can get all sorts of off-the-rack (non-custom) and custom steel bikes set up for fat tires, fender clearance, long wheelbase, and comfy geometry, but most carbon bikes are all about the racing thing (skinny tires, no fender clearance, short wheelbase, and steep geometry). The Specialized Roubaix has some (mainly, good geometry), but not all, of the above rando/brevet bike characteristics.

A custom frame builder like Brent Steelman could build you up a carbon rando/brevet frame if you wanted, but I don't know of any off-the-rack carbon frames that fit the full bill. 

That said, your Roubaix will be just be just fine for brevets. After you ride a few, if you find it lacking, look for something else (I doubt you will).

Good luck, Rhino, on your brevets. Keep us updated on you exploits, buddy!

Bon Chance!

Dale


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## rhino biker (Nov 28, 2006)

thanks to all!

i'll keep riding the roubaix on 700 x 25's but add some raceblade fenders for the wet.


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## Jokull (Aug 13, 2007)

There's a world of difference between a 200 - 300 km ride and Paris-Brest-Paris distances. I'm sure that if I was going to ride 1200 km I'd think long and hard about making myself as comfortable as possible. For 300 km, you can pretty much just get out and ride: last winter I did a 200+ km training ride a month for 3 months leading up to doing the Ronde van Vlaanderen cyclosportive (260 km, including 21 k of cobbles). On the training rides I just used my regular aluminium bike (with fenders), and a saddlebag with some sandwiches and a rain jacket in it. With one stop as a shop to refill my bottles and buy a little more food, I was fine for the day. The week before I rode RvV, I was using the same bike (without fenders) to ride crits!


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## treebound (Oct 16, 2003)

rhino biker said:


> so what is it about a steel frame that would move some to spend thousands on that 'next' bike... setting aside their carbon wonder when going on a rando? is steel so plush that it really is da bomb? is it real or is it classic mystique?


It is what it is. Some equate it to ride quality, some to material resiliance, some figure that if you dent a c/f frame it is toast but if you dent a steel frame you just have a dent and keep riding if the dent isn't too bad. Some consider it more like a religious thing where you do what works for you or makes the most sense for you. Some consider it a material thing and like the possibility of getting their frame fixed even though that option is rarely pursued in reality. C/f fails, aluminum fatigues, steel just keeps going and going and going until it rusts away, at which point the titanium folks jump up and say they have the best of all worlds. I just use what I like and what I trust and what I'm most comfortable and familiar with, it is what it is and nothing more. Nothing more sayeth the raven, nothing more.


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