# Power meter...now what?



## Newnan3 (Jul 8, 2011)

I got a pm a month or so ago and I've been training with it. I've been doing the sample 16wk workout program in the coggan book. 

I've been using it to make sure I'm in the correct power zone during intervals and once I ended a workout early bc I couldn't produce the FTP the workout called for. 

My question is there another way I should be using it? Id like to make sure im using it to its Full potential...I've noticed that I tend to produce more watts when I focus on spinning vs mashing a bigger gear. 

Any insights?


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## kbiker3111 (Nov 7, 2006)

Use it all the time and analyze the rides and races you struggle in. There is nothing more useful than having data from a hard race, knowing you pr'd your wattage on a given climb even though you were dropped a minute from the top. Knowing what limits you and then targeting those limitations is the most effective way to train. 

The main limitation is usually ftp, but knowing how far you are from being the hammer instead of the nail gives you a good target.


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## tom_h (May 6, 2008)

Think about buying the TrainingPeaks WKO+ software, which comports well with the Coggan/Hunter book, and make some effort to learning to use WKO+.

In particular, I find WKO's "PMC" (Performance Management Chart) to be very helpful.
What is the Performance Management Chart? | TrainingPeaks

The software also makes it much easier to plot and track 20minute peak power, 5min peak powers, etc, over time.

Open-source Golden Cheetah software has similar features, although the terminology is different.


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## Alex_Simmons/RST (Jan 12, 2008)

Newnan3 said:


> My question is there another way I should be using it? Id like to make sure im using it to its Full potential...I've noticed that I tend to produce more watts when I focus on spinning vs mashing a bigger gear.
> 
> Any insights?


There are many facets to improvement on a bike, and the role a power meter may play in helping that journey. First up it does help to know what your goals are and where you are now (fitness/experience etc).

As a rough rule of thumb, use the power meter to ensure that you apply the basic training principles of:
- specificity, e.g. a focus on improving power output over durations relevant to your goals
- sustainable progressive overload to drive desirable adaptations by tracking your workload
- recovery as needed

The plan in the book is an example and is not going to be suitable for everyone.

Beyond guiding basic fitness improvement, there are other means to utilise the meter, such as assessment of and improvement in aerodynamics.

[Blatant plug]
Have you considered coaching? We can help with that, and of course there are others that can as well. The power meter greatly assists with two way accountability between a coach and athlete.
[/Blatant plug]


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## Newnan3 (Jul 8, 2011)

kbiker3111 said:


> Use it all the time and analyze the rides and races you struggle in. There is nothing more useful than having data from a hard race, knowing you pr'd your wattage on a given climb even though you were dropped a minute from the top. Knowing what limits you and then targeting those limitations is the most effective way to train.
> 
> The main limitation is usually ftp, but knowing how far you are from being the hammer instead of the nail gives you a good target.


I did a group,ride recently where I was real close to cracking but I managed to hang on until my calves started to cramp a few miles from the finish. I'll have another look at that ride. Unfortunately I didn't have the PM during my last race...



tom_h said:


> Think about buying the TrainingPeaks WKO+ software, which comports well with the Coggan/Hunter book, and make some effort to learning to use WKO+.
> 
> In particular, I find WKO's "PMC" (Performance Management Chart) to be very helpful.
> What is the Performance Management Chart? | TrainingPeaks
> ...


Ill have a read over the PMC link you posted. I have golden cheetah but I have figured out how to make sense of all of the graphs and charts. Any tips?



Alex_Simmons/RST said:


> There are many facets to improvement on a bike, and the role a power meter may play in helping that journey. First up it does help to know what your goals are and where you are now (fitness/experience etc).
> 
> As a rough rule of thumb, use the power meter to ensure that you apply the basic training principles of:
> - specificity, e.g. a focus on improving power output over durations relevant to your goals
> ...


My goals are to put on power and look to racing crits and road races next year. My last race showed me that I have a lot of work to do. I also want to be able to go to any group ride and lay down the pain not just hang on for life lol. 

I decided to use the plan in the coggan book bc he said it was tailored to a guy who needed improvement with FTP and sprinting. I think that's a fair assessment of what I need now hence me following that plan. 

I have considered coaching. It's something I'll be strongly considering towards the end of this year.


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## tom_h (May 6, 2008)

Newnan3 said:


> ...
> Ill have a read over the PMC link you posted. I have golden cheetah but I have figured out how to make sense of all of the graphs and charts. Any tips? ...


I use WKO+, not GC, so unable to give you meaningful advice.
You might get better guidance at "Wattage" forum,
https://groups.google.com/forum/#!forum/wattage


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## ericm979 (Jun 26, 2005)

You need to read Coggan and Allen's book. GoldenCheetah's charts look different but follow the same concepts. For example the GC Performance Manager uses different terms than WKO's PMC (I can't remember if 'acute' is short or long so I used short term and long term stress) but works the same way. The default time periods for short and long term are the same as WKO.

BikeScore is calculated slightly differently than TSS but in practice is close enough to be interchangeable. GC will use TSS for most things now but a few features like manual ride entry only do BS.

There is a good FAQ/manual at Golden Cheetah: Cycling Performance Software for Linux, Mac OS X, and Windows


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## hrumpole (Jun 17, 2008)

The charts in GC now use both TSS and NP--those are the big ones, I believe.


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## Heather Nielson (Jul 14, 2013)

First of all: a month is hardly enough time to start really analyzing your data. Second: how do you know what your threshold is? Have you been tested? If you couldnt' produce whatever FTP it is you're trying to hit then you're probably over-estimating. Do what Coggan suggests and just ride with it for several months, every time you ride. Get tested. Have some specific goals for the next season and get a coach 
If you're interested, I offer on-going consultations starting at $25/month. More information can be found here: On-going consultations ? Heather Nielson Thank you and best wishes!


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## tom_h (May 6, 2008)

" _... ride with it for several months ... _"

If you mean before doing an FTP or 20min MMP test, that seems excessive.

I could understand a month to get accustomed to the relation between perceived exertion, HR, and power.


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## Heather Nielson (Jul 14, 2013)

It's not actually. The book 'Training with Power' has a lot of great info on that. You need a LOT of data to really start understanding where your real numbers are, strengths, weaknesses, how consistent you are...more is always better. I'd say at least 3 months of data. This comes from being an elite/semi-pro athlete as well as a coach. You should still get tested though.


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## hrumpole (Jun 17, 2008)

Heather Nielson said:


> It's not actually. The book 'Training with Power' has a lot of great info on that. You need a LOT of data to really start understanding where your real numbers are, strengths, weaknesses, how consistent you are...more is always better. I'd say at least 3 months of data. This comes from being an elite/semi-pro athlete as well as a coach. You should still get tested though.


??? 3 months? Not really sure about this one. If that were true, then PM but no training plan for 90 days? Dunno--I would think that if you did the profile test, the fatigue profile test, and the ftp test you'd have at least some clue as to what you might want to work on and where your weaknesses were.


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## Local Hero (Jul 8, 2010)

hrumpole said:


> ??? 3 months? Not really sure about this one. If that were true, *then PM but no training plan for 90 days*? Dunno--I would think that if you did the profile test, the fatigue profile test, and the ftp test you'd have at least some clue as to what you might want to work on and where your weaknesses were.


I understand collecting data for a period of time before jumping into it. I also believe that many people overestimate their FTP and improperly perform the tests. I will not go so far as to say that three months is essential. I would probably get impatient after three weeks. 

Why would someone have to suspend whatever training plan they are currently using while collecting data?


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## Srode (Aug 19, 2012)

If a person has been riding for a while and is just new to Power Meters, I don't understand why there would be any reason to wait to do a 20 minute test. That plus a 5 minute test will help build a critical power curve and start to understand flat spots as the blanks are filled in as they build a data base. Early on establishment of FTP will help make the performance management chart in GC realistic for acute stress etc.


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## hrumpole (Jun 17, 2008)

Local Hero said:


> I understand collecting data for a period of time before jumping into it. I also believe that many people overestimate their FTP and improperly perform the tests. I will not go so far as to say that three months is essential. I would probably get impatient after three weeks.
> 
> Why would someone have to suspend whatever training plan they are currently using while collecting data?


I was assuming there was no plan-if you're just riding around for 3 months. (Agree with you on three weeks)> 

If you're following a power-based plan, though, and can't complete the (longer) intervals, then likely you've set FTP incorrectly (too high). Bump FTP 5 watts down and see if you can complete the sets. Keep bumping down till you can. Then when they get too easy either retest or bump 5 w. Early on, I'd recommend retesting.

Also, you can learn a lot from group rides where you get dropped. If you get shelled OTB, hit the lap button. It puts a bookmark in the file and tells you where to look. A couple of those and patterns start to stick out.


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## Newnan3 (Jul 8, 2011)

hrumpole said:


> I was assuming there was no plan-if you're just riding around for 3 months. (Agree with you on three weeks)>
> 
> If you're following a power-based plan, though, and can't complete the (longer) intervals, then likely you've set FTP incorrectly (too high). Bump FTP 5 watts down and see if you can complete the sets. Keep bumping down till you can. Then when they get too easy either retest or bump 5 w. Early on, I'd recommend retesting.
> 
> Also, you can learn a lot from group rides where you get dropped. If you get shelled OTB, hit the lap button. It puts a bookmark in the file and tells you where to look. A couple of those and patterns start to stick out.


When I said i cut my workout short one day I meant because I was fatigued from riding and work. I usually am able to hit my ftp. 

As far as group rides where i get dropped, assuming i can find the point in the ride where got dropped how should i analyze it? Look at how many tough efforts i did before? How much the wattage was? 

And then what do i do? That many efforts at the particular wattage ?


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## kbiker3111 (Nov 7, 2006)

Newnan3 said:


> When I said i cut my workout short one day I meant because I was fatigued from riding and work. I usually am able to hit my ftp.
> 
> As far as group rides where i get dropped, assuming i can find the point in the ride where got dropped how should i analyze it? Look at how many tough efforts i did before? How much the wattage was?
> 
> And then what do i do? That many efforts at the particular wattage ?


The number of tough efforts and what those tough efforts were is helpful to know. More importantly, look at the normalized power up to that point and the hard effort that got you dropped. That's the effort you want to train for. If you got dropped on a flat group ride after 45 minutes of steady hard riding and your NP was 285 up to that point, you can assume your threshold is close to 285 watts and you need to get it closer to 295 to hang on. OTOH, if you went on a hilly group ride and got dropped 7 minutes at 315 watts into a 10 minute climb, you know you need to be able to sustain 315 watts for more than 10 minutes in order to not get dropped.


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## kbiker3111 (Nov 7, 2006)

A personal example:

Last weekend I did a hard, hilly road race where ahead of time I was pretty sure I would get dropped. Sure enough, after ~95 minutes I got tailed off at the end of a climb. Up to that point, I had a normalized power of 340 watts with 2 climbs of 410 watts for 8 minutes and 2 climbs of 350 watts for 15 minutes. The second half of the race was about 10 minutes slower than the first half, so I assume the power requirements were not significantly greater. So for me to be competitive in this race, I would need to be able to sustain 340 watts for 3 hours with 4 vo2 type efforts and 4 threshold efforts. I'm not sure if this is realistic for me, but its what the race demands.

I'm giving this example because I think its one of the most important uses of a powermeter. By knowing the specific demands of a race, you can structure your training appropriately. It takes the mystery out of training and fitness and you begin to learn about dimensions of training that are otherwise impossible to see. Don't make the mistake of thinking a specific wattage or w/kg will guarantee a win, because certainly a race plays out based on the tactics and level of competition that shows up. Instead, use a powermeter introspectively to know when you 'have it' and when you don't.


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