# Flat tires, tire-liners, "thorn resistant" tubes, and continued commuting



## PmbH (Sep 4, 2003)

I hate flat tires... I hate goatheads... It's post-summer goathead season in CA. 

A couple weeks back I posted that I started commuting. It's been great, but I've had one flat per every two days of commuting... Every time it's a freaking goathead! Mind you, this is with Panaracer UrbanMax tires that already are pretty heavy and have some layer of mystery stuff for flat protection. 

I finally got sick of it and bought two things I've never purchased before in my life - "thorn resistant" tubes, and tire liners... Yes, I installed both, in both wheels.

Has anyone ever actually ridden with these things before? Oh dear god, I may as well ride on wooden tires... The ride quality is, um, unique, to say the least. 

If this is the trade-off, I MIGHT be able to get used to it... But really, this sucks.

Anyhow, commuting is going well. I don't know if I'll hang it up when it starts getting dark, but I'm otherwise ready for autumn. Rode home in the rain yesterday, totally unprepared, aside from a waterproof cover on my leather seat... But even that wasn't too bad. Fenders will be going back on soon. Lights are always with me in my bag, so I'm ready for any unplanned late nights in the office. I've also perfected the art of folding my pants and shirt so they don't look too disheveled when I get to work. I leave deodorant and hair gel in my desk, along with the same shoes and belt since I started bike commuting (I think a 2nd pair of shoes & belt will be following me in to work soon, for variety). I'm thinking about leaving a full two-weeks worth of clothes here, and just using a nearby laundry or dry-cleaners once-a-week. Anyone ever try that?


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## SCW (Mar 19, 2005)

I have used the liners in my 28mm Conti touring tires and I didn't feel them. Since moving to New Mexico from Utah I have tried a few different tires and I really like the Michelin Carbons, but I haven't tried the liners in them yet to know how or if it will change the ride. These ride better than anything else I have been on, not that is a lot....

I'd rather have a flat-free ride than perfect feel to the tires anyday so whatever I have to do to avoid flats is what I'll do. I'll be moving back to Utah in January and I'll be forced to use liners in whatever I have on the bike there.


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## PmbH (Sep 4, 2003)

It could be the tubes rather than the liners giving it such a nasty ride. I went from ultralight tubes to the new setup without trying the liners alone.

I also have some Specialized Armadillo tires in a 28c that I could try again. But I just took those off after two days of commuting because of their lousy feel.

Here's a funny story:
I bought those Armadillos years ago for my road bike so I could start rides from home and navigate the broken glass of the city to get out to the prime riding spots. For rides that started with the bike on top of the car, I had a second set of wheels with normal road tires.
Anyhow, around that same time, I did the Wildflower triathlon with a relay team, and I was doing the 56 mile cycling leg... I brought the wrong wheels! I rode on the &%$#@ 28c Armadillos for the tri... It was a loooong day for me. I was thankful I didn't have to run afterwards.

Back to commuting...
So maybe I'll try the liners with normal tubes and see how that combination works for me.


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## bigbill (Feb 15, 2005)

I ride through many patches of glass on my commute. The MUT is mostly lined with thorny trees so I never ride over a fallen tree limb. I commute on 28mm Armadillos with 28-38mm tubes which are thicker but not advertised a "thorn resistant". I can put a 28-38 tube in a 25mm tire with no problems. I have had two thorn flats this year, both on the same day. If a thorn is big enough and in the right position, it is destined to flat you. I don't use tire liners and will ride my armadillos until there are too many holes in the tread from glass. It is a comfort factor for me. I have yet to wear one out. Once a week I scrub my tires clean and deflate them. I pinch the tire while looking at it outside or under a light. I use a pointed screwdriver and pick the glass out of the tread. Eventually the tread is pockmarked pretty much the whole way around. I am planning on replacing both tires this week along with the chain. The front tire has a little over 5000 miles, the rear has about 1900 miles, and the chain has 1600 miles. The red volcanic dirt here in Hawaii is hell on chains.


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## konadude (Feb 2, 2005)

*I hate goatheads too!*

Got a flat from one of these little bastards the other day going thru a bike path near Balboa park here in SoCal. I guess its that time of the year when these goatheads are everywhere! Went to a bike shop right after and got myself Mr. Tuffy liners and put them in both tires. Still using regular tubes though. Haven't noticed much difference in the ride quality. We'll see if this prevents any more goathead flats. Keeping my fingers crossed!


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## Dave_Stohler (Jan 22, 2004)

Buy a set of Armadillos and some light tubes. Yeah, they ride like $hit, but they do work.


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## bigbill (Feb 15, 2005)

Dave_Stohler said:


> Buy a set of Armadillos and some light tubes. Yeah, they ride like $hit, but they do work.



I have a training wheelset with 23mm armadillos. I could wrap the rims in electrical tape and get the same ride. My commuter uses 28mm and when you use that size, the ride is not a factor. I run them at 90# and the ride is just fine. I like the higher air volume because of the rough surface and don't want to get beat to death on the ride. My commuter rolls out the garage at 30 plus pounds so the fact that I use heavy tubes is a brick in the grand canyon. The two flats that I have had were both caused by half inch thorns, I don't think a tire strip would have done much.


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## Dave_Stohler (Jan 22, 2004)

One good thing about 'dillos is that they are so sturdy, you can run them with 20 psig less than you would with a good tire. This will improve the ride a good bit, but not the grip.

FWIW, I pulled the 'dillos off my fixie the other day (had been riding a lot of pea-gravel rail trails, so the 38mm Nimbii were good for that use), and put my 32mm Pasela T-Serv's back on. Man, what a difference! I can actually get a good ride even when pumped up to 85 psig!! And good grip, as well!

If I start bike commuting again, though, I'll take the touring bike with the 'dillos every day.


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## bigbill (Feb 15, 2005)

Quick dillo story. The infamous two flat day a few weeks ago, when I noticed that the front tire was going down, I crossed two lanes of traffic to get to a left turn lane, waited for the turn arrow (lots of traffic), turned and got onto the part of the MUT that I normally bypass, rode up a 1/4 mile hill to a shaded area, then I changed the tire. There is something wonderful about a 28mm tire with a heavy tube.


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## fbagatelleblack (Mar 31, 2005)

PmbH said:


> It could be the tubes rather than the liners giving it such a nasty ride. I went from ultralight tubes to the new setup without trying the liners alone.


As far as I can tell, thorn resistant tubes are almost useless. They are heavy, and goatheads don't really care if they are puncturing through 0.060" or 0.100" of rubber, they go through whatever you got...

Mr. Tuffies, or other tire liners, really do work, on the other hand. They don't seem to have as much impact on ride quality as big, heavy tubes. There are a lot of tires out there with built-in puncture protection. Nashbar has them on sale pretty cheap on a regular basis. I like the liners because you don't have to buy new liners when you buy new tires.

I've never had much luck with Slime, but some folks say it works well for goathead punctures.

Good luck!


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## Spinfinity (Feb 3, 2004)

*Pasela Tserv*



Dave_Stohler said:


> and put my 32mm Pasela T-Serv's back on. Man, what a difference! I can actually get a good ride even when pumped up to 85 psig!! And good grip, as well!
> 
> I really like Paselas for commuting (with Mr Tuffy) and riding bad roads. I find them very supple for comfort and handling, pretty durable and light for their size. I thought TServs were a different tire. Are they similar?


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