# Second extreme power ?



## Salsa_Lover (Jul 6, 2008)

After reading donevan's thread about the second extreme power and asking him why he would want 2 similar bikes, I came into this kind of situation that you criticize something and end up doing the same  

I just sold the C-40 HP in 57 I had built for sale. So there was some cash flowing back. I did the big mistake of looking into the bike classifieds,and then I saw this ad for a Extreme Power for sale just 20 Km from home.

a 54cm Traditional Extreme Power on STIT, for the right price. So inmediatly I knew what to do with that dirty cash. 










Only problem, it is that is a 54cm, so too small for me I thought, after all I have a 52s EP and a 56 custom EC and a 55 C-40 right ?

But well, this is a beautiful frame and I have a full DA 7800 group and wheels so I can build it to put it for sale.

Well just before going to pick it up, I did measure my colnagos again, and actually found that my C-40 LX10 was not a 55cm but a 54cm. ( 13.05 head tube ) , well that explains why I needed more spacers on it that on the other two to get same fit.










So in fact my new EP is not too small after all, I do like a lot how the C-40 fits and rides.

when you see them side to side the C40 looked biger because the thiner tubes, the EP thick tubes make it appear smaller from a pic, but actually the mesurement are the same.

So now this has me thinking about building it for myself. Anyhow I don't seem to get good deals on a 56 or 55 traditional anyway.

The seller had an almost new Campagnolo Record UT standard crankset, that came with the bike and he promptly replaced by a compact so he also had it for a super price. So I have now this to build up the bike.

I have also s green headset and some colorful cables.










the green headset is paler that what it should be, but is better than black anyway. 

There are some green seatpost collars I could get from ebay but the match is not so good










However, I need here some advice.

my options are 


I do have a full Dura Ace 7800 groupset including a 7850-C24-CL wheels, plus the other 7850 tubular wheels 7850-C50-TU and 7850-C24-TU that I can then swap among the bikes.

another possibility is to get the Record 10 speed parts to complete a Record 10sp group and some wheels.

Get a new 11speed group, like Super Record 2010 and some Boras

If I don't use this Record Crankset on the EP I could put it to the C-40 that has the Alu crank

opinions ? suggestions ?


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## Maverick (Apr 29, 2004)

*Campagnolo of course*

here's a blunt suggestion  

go for the 11speed Campagnolo groupset with Bora Ultra wheels.
or if you can, the 2011 Record groupset. 

cheers!


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## Salsa_Lover (Jul 6, 2008)

frame weights

Frame 1082 gr
Fork 467 gr
Seat Collar 24 gr


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## Maverick (Apr 29, 2004)

wow..

your extreme power is 100 grams lighter than my size 52, PR38 C50 
1179 grams (frame), 437 grams(fork)

:thumbsup: 

cheers!


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## FrenchNago (Jan 1, 2011)

I see some nice bits and pieces there.............by the way here are my CC measurements:

CC measurements FrenchNago


Measurements
-------------------------------------------
Inseam: 83
Trunk: 63
Forearm: 33
Arm: 64.5
Thigh: 56
Lower Leg: 55
Sternal Notch: 145
Total Body Height: 177.5


The Competitive Fit (cm)
-------------------------------------------
Seat tube range c-c: 53.8 - 54.3
Seat tube range c-t: 55.4 - 55.9
Top tube length: 54.8 - 55.2 
Stem Length: 10.9 - 11.5
BB-Saddle Position: 79.8 - 81.8
Saddle-Handlebar: 51.6 - 52.2
Saddle Setback: 3.1 - 3.5


The Eddy Fit (cm)
-------------------------------------------
Seat tube range c-c: 55.0 - 55.5
Seat tube range c-t: 56.6 - 57.1
Top tube length: 54.8 - 55.2
Stem Length: 9.8 - 10.4
BB-Saddle Position: 79.0 - 81.0
Saddle-Handlebar: 52.4 - 53.0
Saddle Setback: 4.3 - 4.7


The French Fit (cm)
-------------------------------------------
Seat tube range c-c: 56.7 - 57.2
Seat tube range c-t: 58.3 - 58.8
Top tube length: 56.0 - 56.4
Stem Length: 10.0 - 10.6
BB-Saddle Position: 77.3 - 79.3
Saddle-Handlebar: 54.1 - 54.7
Saddle Setback: 3.8 - 4.2

what is interesting is the spread in between what they call the competitive fit and the french fit.........i'll stay competitive thank you!!!  

Whats even more interesting is if you are properly fitted on a post 2006 colnago you usually sit in between a competitve and Eddy fit.....explains the comfort on a colnago!!!


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## Salsa_Lover (Jul 6, 2008)

Maverick said:


> wow..
> 
> your extreme power is 100 grams lighter than my size 52, PR38 C50
> 1179 grams (frame), 437 grams(fork)
> ...


the weight is without seat collar, or cable adjusters.

The fork is quite heavy though, but I will keep it, the lighter Carbon 75 is made in Asia AFAIK


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## Salsa_Lover (Jul 6, 2008)

Frenchy my measurements are like this

Measurements
-------------------------------------------
Inseam: 81
Trunk: 69
Forearm: 34
Arm: 65
Thigh: 58
Lower Leg: 57
Sternal Notch: 146
Total Body Height: 180


The Competitive Fit (cm)
-------------------------------------------
Seat tube range c-c: 52.4 - 52.9
Seat tube range c-t: 54.1 - 54.6
Top tube length: 56.8 - 57.2 
Stem Length: 11.2 - 11.8
BB-Saddle Position: 77.9 - 79.9
Saddle-Handlebar: 53.8 - 54.4
Saddle Setback: 2.5 - 2.9


The Eddy Fit (cm)
-------------------------------------------
Seat tube range c-c: 53.6 - 54.1
Seat tube range c-t: 55.3 - 55.8
Top tube length: 56.8 - 57.2
Stem Length: 10.1 - 10.7
BB-Saddle Position: 77.1 - 79.1
Saddle-Handlebar: 54.6 - 55.2
Saddle Setback: 3.7 - 4.1


The French Fit (cm)
-------------------------------------------
Seat tube range c-c: 55.3 - 55.8
Seat tube range c-t: 57.0 - 57.5
Top tube length: 58.0 - 58.4
Stem Length: 10.3 - 10.9
BB-Saddle Position: 75.4 - 77.4
Saddle-Handlebar: 56.3 - 56.9
Saddle Setback: 3.2 - 3.6


I might have measured it wrong though


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## FrenchNago (Jan 1, 2011)

Bah, I think you'll fit.........otherwise i can keep it for you


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## Salsa_Lover (Jul 6, 2008)

First fitting with parts I had lying around.

I am ordering a Colnago Seatpost and will look for some Cinelli RAMs, in the meantime it seems it will fit right.

The wheels give a hint of the direction this is taking....


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## 1Cebu (Feb 27, 2009)

Go Record 10 all the way.


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## Opus51569 (Jul 21, 2009)

I like the way it's looking so far, Salsa. If you had just described the color scheme on the frame, I don't know how I would have responded. Seeing it, though, it definitely works, and works well.

I think that green e-bay seatpost clamp would work. It may not match the shade of green exactly, but there's enough distance between it and the rest of the green on the frame that I think it will work and provide a nice accent. YMMV.


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## Ride-Fly (Mar 27, 2002)

Salsa. I hate you.


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## Salsa_Lover (Jul 6, 2008)

I could get a full NOS Campy UT 10speed for ~$1200 or the missing parts ( no crankset ) for ~ $1000.

Super Record 2010 goes for $1800

A guy is selling a set of used Campy Extralites with Zipp 303 rims for $1000

otherwise Bora Ones are some $1700 and Bora Ultras $2600

there are some used Bora Ultras for $2000 in the market and Campy UT 10sp can be got for $700 used.

But I also have a full DA 7800 group + with the wheels for a cost of $0, like this I could use the money to get a nice set of Cinelli Rams for example.....


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## Salsa_Lover (Jul 6, 2008)

I decided to build it "temporarly" on DA 7800

the cost of going full campy would be at least $2000. 

That wouldn't be that much but because I have other 2 fully in DA 7800 , then I will keep the compatibility of wheelsets and parts.

At some point I will maybe phase out all the DA stuff and will move all bikes to Campy.... someday.....

Now I will look for some Cinelli Rams


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## Salsa_Lover (Jul 6, 2008)

current status of the "temporary" DA 7800 build.... hopefully next year all 3 bikes will be on SR11

Now what ? red cables and black bartape ?


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## FrenchNago (Jan 1, 2011)

Salsa_Lover said:


> current status of the "temporary" DA 7800 build.... hopefully next year all 3 bikes will be on SR11
> 
> Now what ? red cables and black bartape ?


No: black cables and/or green bar tape, black saddle.......maybe


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## Salsa_Lover (Jul 6, 2008)

I have this idea that black cables go on cheap bikes, just because the black housing is the generic one.

I do have Dura Ace gray, Jagwire white and red. ......

Maye I'll experiment with the red, will look for some green bar tape though


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## Salsa_Lover (Jul 6, 2008)

this one ?


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## nicensleazy (Aug 3, 2008)

You are onr lucky guy!


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## FrenchNago (Jan 1, 2011)

Salsa_Lover said:


> I have this idea that black cables go on cheap bikes, just because the black housing is the generic one.
> 
> I do have Dura Ace gray, Jagwire white and red. ......
> 
> Maye I'll experiment with the red, will look for some green bar tape though


I thought black or DA silver grey is nice because it sort of disappears revealing the bike more than the cables...........for the green BT lizard skins has some but you have to like it tacky!!!


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## FrenchNago (Jan 1, 2011)

Salsa_Lover said:


> this one ?


that looks ok


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## Salsa_Lover (Jul 6, 2008)

Finished the "temporary" build

I went with the DA gray cable housings and black tape

Looks good IMHO and is quite light

now out for a ride  !!


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## FrenchNago (Jan 1, 2011)

Salsa_Lover said:


> Finished the "temporary" build
> 
> I went with the DA gray cable housings and black tape
> 
> ...


Looks good and to the point......hope you had a nice ride, we logged 129k this morning


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## Salsa_Lover (Jul 6, 2008)

the two sisters ...


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## Ride-Fly (Mar 27, 2002)

Wow! Awesomeness times two! So which one rides better? Which one is more stiffliant? :thumbsup: Seriously though, do you favor one over the other? I tend to like white bikes but not always when it comes to carbon. I LOVE the zebra-like weave on my Fondriest TF1. Best looking carbon weave I have ever seen. 


Salsa_Lover said:


> the two sisters ...


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## Salsa_Lover (Jul 6, 2008)

I finished the build on Sunday afternoon and went for a short ride with it before the announced rain arrived our area.

The bike looks great, feels great and as it is now well fitted, it is light and responsive, I like i a lot 

It is definetly stiff, feels noticiably stiffer than with the Extreme C that I can compare as I was on a longer ride on Saturday on it.

The Extreme C is setup with Carbon seatpost/RAM carbon bars and carbon low profile wheels, and the EP on this "temporary" build was on aluminum setpost/bars/wheels so probably this has an effect on the "perceived" stiffness, so I would have to compare them in similar conditions.

Monday was all day rainy and today is clearing up, so probably tonight or tomorrow I can go on a longer ride and then have a better feel of it comparing it side to side with the Extreme-C and the other EP.

If you look at the picture you'll see that although the white EP is a 52s, that most charts attribute to a 56, it is fitted exactly the same as the 54.

check this geometry chart

http://cbikeusa.com/c-50_hp.htm

According to the geometry charts the 52s has a head tube of 15, top tube virtual 55 but 73.3° seatpost angle while the 54 has a head tube of 13.2 , top tube 54 and 74° seat angle

The difference on the seat angle puts the 52s seatback exactly 1 cm behind the 54 ( Sc on the chart so 153 for the 52s vs 143 for the 54 ) ... interesting

So actually both bikes when having the saddle setup the same have the same actual horizontal top tubes saddle to handlebars.

The head tube difference should be corrected according to the charts by two 1cm spacers under the stem on the traditional vs none on the sloping right ? well that is not the case, I have a 0.5 spacer on the sloping and a 1cm spacer on the traditional and the measurement hub-centerofbars is almost the same..... maybe also there is a difference on head tube angle and that is what affects this fitting ? As headtube angles are not published I can't make a real comparison.

Or probably is because different headset stacks and/or stem heights ? That could be. In any case on my C40 that is also a 54 I have a Campy record headset that has minimal stack and Cinelli RAMs and I need two 1cm spacers to make it fit the same.

Anyway, both bikes are fit almost the same, main difference here are the handlebars as the Cinelli RAMs are somewhat a half-compact, so It has "ergo" shape but a shorter and less deep drop that the ergo, but not that much as the real compacts that I dislike ... the bars I put on are FSA Energy and those have more reach and drop that the Cinellis, so that makes a difference. I'll swap to a Cinelli RAM as soon as I can get ones on my size and a right price.

Also notice that the 2 EPs have now small triangles one because it is sloping, the other because is a smaller size, but both triangles have different shapes and positioning relative to geometry.....

tomorrow hopefully it will be sunny and I will then ride longer and on both bikes with at least same wheels so I can compare them more..


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## FrenchNago (Jan 1, 2011)

Salsa_Lover said:


> I finished the build on Sunday afternoon and went for a short ride with it before the announced rain arrived our area.
> 
> The bike looks great, feels great and as it is now well fitted, it is light and responsive, I like i a lot
> 
> ...


With the same settings the Sloping frame should be more"get up and go" than the traditional that should in its turn be more compliant on long runs and on "rhythm rides".


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## Salsa_Lover (Jul 6, 2008)

the bike is great, I am falling in love again <3

Actually it was a good thing to have it built on DA 7800 as I can easily swap wheels with her 2 sisters.

Now the C-40 will receive the UT crankset.

I will set it up temporarly with a set of FSA K-Wings I have around as I can't find a set of Cinelli RAMs on my size at a good price in the moment.... time will tell, If I ever sell the 52s I will swap the RAMs before selling...

The Colnago seatpost is on its way


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## Ride-Fly (Mar 27, 2002)

Salsa_Lover said:


> the bike is great, I am falling in love again <3
> 
> Actually it was a good thing to have it built on DA 7800 as I can easily swap wheels with her 2 sisters.
> 
> ...


Hey Salsa, 
Not to set the S vs. C thing into motion but if you are mainly a Shimano guy, how do you like having your C40 with the Campy? I have Campy on all but one of my bikes and it bugs me that I have one with DA9. My whole world is out of whack!  I have grand plans to change out the black sheep to Campy to be like the rest of the siblings but I just hadn't had the time yet. Are you planning on keeping Campy on your C40? If you go Shimano on your C40, would you go with the new style or stay with your 7800s?


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## fabsroman (Jul 14, 2006)

Those are some fine looking bikes you have there. I have been watching e-bay for an Exterme C, but no luck so far. Should have bought the one in PR82 that I saw a while ago, but wanted PR82 for a Master XL.

I went with red nokon cables, red bar tape, and red negative g brakes on my ST01 C50. Not exactly the same as STIT, but pretty close. Probably going to go with red Tune hubs when I finally get around to building up the rims I bought for it. I would post a pic, but I don't want to take over your bike building thread.


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## Salsa_Lover (Jul 6, 2008)

Ride-Fly said:


> Hey Salsa,
> Not to set the S vs. C thing into motion but if you are mainly a Shimano guy, how do you like having your C40 with the Campy? I have Campy on all but one of my bikes and it bugs me that I have one with DA9. My whole world is out of whack!  I have grand plans to change out the black sheep to Campy to be like the rest of the siblings but I just hadn't had the time yet. Are you planning on keeping Campy on your C40? If you go Shimano on your C40, would you go with the new style or stay with your 7800s?


Shimano guy ? more like a bike guy I'd say 

My first road bike was on Ultegra, more than a decade ago. I have been on Shimano ever since. 

At some point I upgraded to Dura Ace 7800 and I loved it. When 7900 came out to the market, the online retailers were liquidating the 7800 stocks and also some people started to dismount 7800 new bikes to rebuild them on 7900 and selling the 7800 parts good as new but as used prices.

I stocked myself on DA 7800 at that time, I still have some new spare parts and a full 7803 triple groupset for one day when I actually need the triple.

I love Italy, not only for the cycling, but also for the cultural, gastronomy and leisure aspects, Italy is only 3 hours away from me so I go there whenever I can, to the beach, or for weekends etc.

For that reason I would also appreciate to have a full Italian bike like some people here try to do.

But this not the right move economically, If I only had one bike It won't be a problem, but I do have 3 Colnagos full on 7800 plus 4 sets of DA wheels and many spare parts, and assorted stuff.

So to fully move to Campy would cost an small fortune, that I better invest in frames for example.

Now about the C-40, the bike is truly great and I like it to be fully Italian, It was Vittoria tyres now so there is not one bit of it that was made in Asia , well, we all know now that the basic materials come from elsewhere, the carbon comes from Asia, the plastic bits come from African oil the steel and or titanium or rubber from some other exotic place etc So to reduce this debate to the absurdum, the only Italian stuff there lies on the know-how, tradition, history and artistry and this is the part i like on those bikes.

I like the Campy on the C-40 and it doesn't take long to adapt to the thumb shifter. however I do like the floating characteristics of the brake levers and rear derailer on the Shimano, that Campagnolo doesn't have. I also like the bigger head of the STIs that give you another holding position. Campy acknowledged this after many years and the the 11 speed stuff has it too. And even though many people dislike the external DA cables, I find it nice, there is a possibility to "pimp" a little the bike with color and also to have the gear indicator .

And if I ever went to Shimano on the C-40 I would set it up with DA 7700 and Mavic Helium wheels ( that I do have ), but I like it like it is.... If I get a Master and AD22 maybe I'll build it with those bits.

I am knocking my head to the wall now, because I left go a mint AD22 Master on 54cm some months ago, because I thought it would be too small.... now with this EP I have seen it was the right size for me


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## Salsa_Lover (Jul 6, 2008)

fabsroman said:


> Those are some fine looking bikes you have there. I have been watching e-bay for an Exterme C, but no luck so far. Should have bought the one in PR82 that I saw a while ago, but wanted PR82 for a Master XL.
> 
> I went with red nokon cables, red bar tape, and red negative g brakes on my ST01 C50. Not exactly the same as STIT, but pretty close. Probably going to go with red Tune hubs when I finally get around to building up the rims I bought for it. I would post a pic, but I don't want to take over your bike building thread.


Please post the pics of the last build, the ones I have found are the initial ones.

Also I would like to see how the Cinelli Ram bars you had custom painted turned out. I am tempted on getting a set of Cinelli Rams custom painted to match this frame

I haven't seen any Extreme C 54cm on the market but there is this EP
It has been for sale for a long time now ( since last year ), so I guess you could contact the seller and try to get a good price on it

http://cgi.ebay.de/Neu-Colnago-Extr...ort_Radsport_Fahrradteile&hash=item3efbc6610a


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## iyeoh (Jan 6, 2005)

Not to burst your bubble, but I use Vittoria tyres/tires exclusively myself. They all come from Bangkok, Thailand. The old Vittoria factory in Italy is now owned by Veloflex. And I'm on the verge of getting one 7900 mechanical group with 7850 wheels myself because its starting to be really discounted relative to Red and Record/Super Record.


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## Ride-Fly (Mar 27, 2002)

fabsroman said:


> Those are some fine looking bikes you have there. I have been watching e-bay for an Exterme C, but no luck so far. Should have bought the one in PR82 that I saw a while ago, but wanted PR82 for a Master XL.
> 
> I went with red nokon cables, red bar tape, and red negative g brakes on my ST01 C50. Not exactly the same as STIT, but pretty close. Probably going to go with red Tune hubs when I finally get around to building up the rims I bought for it. I would post a pic, but I don't want to take over your bike building thread.


Let's who gets the next Nag first between you and I! You want an Ext C and I want a C40!  But Salsa's Ext P thread is making me want one of those too. :cryin:


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## fabsroman (Jul 14, 2006)

Ride-Fly said:


> Let's who gets the next Nag first between you and I! You want an Ext C and I want a C40!  But Salsa's Ext P thread is making me want one of those too. :cryin:


You are probably going to lose. I am getting a Master XL in PR82 for my 40th birthday which is in September and I will most likely be ordering it right after tax season ends on April 18th. So, good luck trying to beat me on the next Nago purchase. LOL

I want an Extreme C in the WXIN paint scheme, but something tells me I am going to have to try to buy a newer frame like the EPQ and have that scheme put on it if that is even possible anymore. I have only seen an Extreme C in WXIN in my size once on e-bay. Should have bought it back then. Such is life.


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## jaydg (Nov 14, 2007)

Wow ! Nice Bikes ! I have two colnagos an Oval Titan and a Master Carbon . I am now thinking of getting an Extreme Power ( thats why am lurking on this thread ) .

I would like to get inputs from people in this forum . I was considering a Extreme Power coz I am a big guy , I want something oversized or strong.

Although , I am tempted to try going for a Pegoretti Marcelo or Big Leg Emma or even experimenting by just ordering Columbus Spirit niobium steel tubing ( same material as a Peg Marcelo ) and having it done by a local frame builder we have here who seems to be old school and seems talented enough to have a fan base . 

Cheapest option would be the DIY steel Peg clone ( way cheaper maybe like 500 bucks total ) , I guess followed by the EP , and then buying a Pegoretti .

What you think ? Or do these other options even compare to an Extreme Power ?


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## Salsa_Lover (Jul 6, 2008)

iyeoh said:


> Not to burst your bubble, but I use Vittoria tyres/tires exclusively myself. They all come from Bangkok, Thailand. The old Vittoria factory in Italy is now owned by Veloflex. And I'm on the verge of getting one 7900 mechanical group with 7850 wheels myself because its starting to be really discounted relative to Red and Record/Super Record.


The rubber comes most probably from Brazilian Caoutchouc and the Cotton arguabily from Egypt or Peru.

So those tyres are not Thai nor Italian

HTH


P.S. 7800 is good enough


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## kbwh (May 28, 2010)

Very nice build, Salsa.


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## Salsa_Lover (Jul 6, 2008)

I am loving this bike and have made it my main bike currently.

This is the "final" setup, that feels just about right. Including a Colnago Seatpost and SLK saddle.

I am still looking for a Cinelli Ram, I guess I could get it from PBK with the coupon, but I would prefer a RAM not a RAM2 the RAM were made in Italy and I generally like them more.










Now I just got a 17° Stem but this is a 130mm I set it up and just tried the bike around the block, it does look better and doesn't feel bad

However I am happy with the "final" setup that puts saddle-bars the same as hub-bars which I like as I find it "balanced" 55cm each measurement.

with this setup the saddle bars go to 56cm and the hub-bars go to 54cm..... mmm I will try it tomorrow on a long ride to see how it really feels when I am tired. 

the FSA stem is some 45grams heavier than the 3T though, also look at my front bottle cage, it was hand painted by me, but well the results are not so great.


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## FrenchNago (Jan 1, 2011)

Salsa_Lover said:


> I am loving this bike and have made it my main bike currently.
> 
> This is the "final" setup, that feels just about right. Including a Colnago Seatpost and SLK saddle.
> 
> ...


Hey salsa, if you paint on a white base layer other paints come out brighter (i guess colnago does that too) especially your green and red!!!


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