# Time Speeder Frameset?



## Voodoochile (Apr 10, 2009)

What do you guys think of this frame set. For $1,044.99 can you get a better frame set? Just looking around at carbon frames and trying to actually find a good frame new but cheap. I don't know much about weave's so maybe someone could also clarify about grades of weaves. Looking for a high grade carbon competitive race frame and realize the prices of carbon frames has come down so much that it's almost crazy not to try one. I don't need the best frame either but I won't ride less than mid to high level. Trying to stay in the $1000 range. I may be way off so you guys can blast me at any time if I am.  
Sale Price: $1,044.99 (Save 45%) 
Retail Price: $1,899.95 
https://www.backcountryoutlet.com/outlet/TME0011/Time-Speeder-Frameset.html?swatch=RAW


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## FondriestFan (May 19, 2005)

Voodoochile said:


> What do you guys think of this frame set. For $1,044.99 can you get a better frame set? Just looking around at carbon frames and trying to actually find a good frame new but cheap. I don't know much about weave's so maybe someone could also clarify about grades of weaves. Looking for a high grade carbon competitive race frame and realize the prices of carbon frames has come down so much that it's almost crazy not to try one. I don't need the best frame either but I won't ride less than mid to high level. Trying to stay in the $1000 range. I may be way off so you guys can blast me at any time if I am.
> Sale Price: $1,044.99 (Save 45%)
> Retail Price: $1,899.95
> https://www.backcountryoutlet.com/outlet/TME0011/Time-Speeder-Frameset.html?swatch=RAW


Yes. You can get that same frame for $899 if you keep an eye out on Bonktown.com. That's Backcountry.com's road cycling deal site.

I think that's going to be as good a frame as you can get for that price. You're getting a fantastic fork too.

Weaves are bs. That's just aesthetics. The underlying carbon is unidirectional. 12k weave is just a cheaper than 3k, which is in turn cheaper than 1k, usually. The weave is just there to catch your eye, nothing more. What matters is the quality of the construction.


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## Voodoochile (Apr 10, 2009)

FondriestFan said:


> Yes. You can get that same frame for $899 if you keep an eye out on Bonktown.com. That's Backcountry.com's road cycling deal site.
> 
> I think that's going to be as good a frame as you can get for that price. You're getting a fantastic fork too.
> 
> Weaves are bs. That's just aesthetics. The underlying carbon is unidirectional. 12k weave is just a cheaper than 3k, which is in turn cheaper than 1k, usually. The weave is just there to catch your eye, nothing more. What matters is the quality of the construction.


Thanks, I will keep an eye out. I also signed up for gearburger.com to alert me when they see it on sale. They say that it's been on sale for $699.99.
http://www.gearburger.com/time/time-speeder-frameset


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## acid_rider (Nov 23, 2004)

Do remember that this frame is Time in name only. It is made in Asia for Time (hence cheaper) and has a different geometry and different sizes to other Euro made Time frames. I am not saying it is a bad frame, I am saying it is different to other Time frames. It has been out for ~2 seasons now, too early to make a call on it's quality if you intend to keep it for some years.


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## Voodoochile (Apr 10, 2009)

acid_rider said:


> Do remember that this frame is Time in name only. It is made in Asia for Time (hence cheaper) and has a different geometry and different sizes to other Euro made Time frames. I am not saying it is a bad frame, I am saying it is different to other Time frames. It has been out for ~2 seasons now, too early to make a call on it's quality if you intend to keep it for some years.


Yes I know about that. Time frames are over priced IMO but this seems to be a bargain with the head set and fork. I'm also looking at the Cinelli Willin Module Frameset. Anyone know about that one?


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## ktuck (Jul 3, 2008)

Use Bing.com shopping search engine and get another 12% off with Cashback.


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## Voodoochile (Apr 10, 2009)

*Cinelli Willin*

I'm now seeing that the Cinelli Willin looks better for quite a few reasons.
Columbus carbon (Columbus is a favorite company of mine)
All Cinelli modules include frame, fork, headset, handlebar stem, handlebar, cork tape and seatpost (how cool is that? adds up to around $250 not including the head set that the Time also has)
Has a 73.5 seat tube angle instead of Time's 73 degree which Makes the set back perfect for me with the top tube length.
Seems like an over all better frame.
I have found it for 919.95 EUR = 1,352.42 USD (anybody know of a better price?)
https://www.parker-international.co.uk/10620/Cinelli-Willin-Carbon-Frame-Module.html
Any thoughts from you guys?


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## Voodoochile (Apr 10, 2009)

I read somewhere that the Cinelli Willin is named after a song by Little Feat. That's kinda crazy. I think the guys at Cinelli must be pot heads like the guys at Cannondale.
Little Feat - Willin' from an album called Waiting For Columbus
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nWwgwADwHh0
I used to be a "Pot Head" in my shi t kickn' days but I'm not exactly sure of the details


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## Sebastionmerckx (Mar 6, 2008)

The Cinelli is a pretty nice frame.A friend of mine rides it and I have ridden it myself.I thought it road very nice(If it were mine,I'd put it behind my Ti Lemond but on par with my full carbon Tete).


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## Italianrider76 (May 13, 2005)

Voodoochile said:


> I have found it for 919.95 EUR = 1,352.42 USD (anybody know of a better price?)


Limited size availability but if you're either a Small or an X-Large this is a great deal.

http://shop.ebay.com/i.html?_nkw=cinelli+willin&_armrs=1&_from=&_ipg=


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## Voodoochile (Apr 10, 2009)

Italianrider76 said:


> Limited size availability but if you're either a Small or an X-Large this is a great deal.
> 
> http://shop.ebay.com/i.html?_nkw=cinelli+willin&_armrs=1&_from=&_ipg=


Yes I saw that on ebay but I need a medium. I don't see many US places that sell Cinelli though. Maybe I saw a couple but not at the price I posted. Hmmm


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## ktuck (Jul 3, 2008)

The Speeder is on BonkTown right now for $700!


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## Jim311 (Sep 18, 2009)

I saw the frame on Bonktown, they didn't have larges or I might have been dropping money on my first road frame... 699 seemed like a really good price. But I also have to ask myself.. if I'm buying an "asian" carbon frame... why not buy one of the other less expensive carbon frames they sell all over Ebay for 300-500 bucks? Or even the Sette carbon road frame for 599 that looks to have great fit and finish? Just playing devils advocate here


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## ktuck (Jul 3, 2008)

Jim311 said:


> ... why not buy one of the other less expensive carbon frames they sell all over Ebay for 300-500 bucks? ...


I asked myself the same thing, but then paid about $900 for a Pinarello-made Opera frame from Backcountry. As far as I know, almost all of the carbon work is done in two or three factories but the engineering and molds are proprietary. I could very well be mistaken, but I just don't believe that one carbon frame is as good as the next - it seems that there's actually quite a bit of craftsmanship hidden under the top layer of carbon weave.

When I'm descending fast and/or surrounded by fast moving cars and trucks, I appreciate having a name-brand frame that has a track record. (A no-name surfboard or golf club or DVD player wouldn't worry me, but a bicycle involves more significant risks.) Bad engineering can cost the big companies millions of dollars but there is virtually no penalty for a poorly engineered no-name frame. 

Haven't there been a couple of stories on this forum where people talk about problems like chainstay flexing with some (not all) of the low cost no-name frames?

If I were going to go "no-name" I'd probably take a look at bikesdirect.com where it seems like the complete bikes are priced almost as low as the price of a build kit without a frame.


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## maximum7 (Apr 24, 2008)

What if you order one of these frames and it doesn't fit you like you thought? 
What if your order one and it's stiff as hell and uncomfortable? 
What if it's mushy or it doesn't handle like you want it to?
What if you order one of these frames and it developes a defect? Are these sellers factory authorized? 

Not trying to be a jerk, but these are reasons why I wouldn't spend money on a frame I wasn't able to test ride.


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## Voodoochile (Apr 10, 2009)

I'm not super worried about a test ride and after consideration I decided that a compact frame would not be the best choice for me. I do like the paint jobs on both frames but the Cinelli has a strange geometry with an extra long top tube which I would not want in relation to the seat tube. On the othe rhand the Time's geometry seems to be quit good other than the compact frme style.
I was looking at carbon frames online all weekend and I really liked the Pedal Force ZX3 for $699 frame only. I'm not sure that I want a frame without a flashy paint job though. Pedal Force also has the RS2 for $750 frame only but I'm not so sure I like the shorter seat tube in relation to the top tube. I think the white frame looks pretty good but I wish I could get the ZX3 with a paint job. Anyone know any better about a paint job on the ZX3 that I haven't seen?
*ZX3*








*RS2*


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## ktuck (Jul 3, 2008)

maximum7 said:


> What if you order one of these frames and it doesn't fit you like you thought?
> What if your order one and it's stiff as hell and uncomfortable?
> What if it's mushy or it doesn't handle like you want it to?
> What if you order one of these frames and it developes a defect? Are these sellers factory authorized?


Bwahaha, do you work for backcountry.com? One of the reasons I bought my frame from them was the price, $900 for a $2700 frame, but also because of their anytime, no-questions-asked return policy. They'll even take the frame back if I accidentally cut the steerer 1/4" above the headset, or if I crash it, or if....

I've bought tons of stuff at bonktown, whiskeymilitia, steepandcheap, et al and have always been able to send back anything I didn't like, for any reason, or for no reason. Just like with Costco, it's a good business model. There are more honest people than devious people in this world and the puppy dog sale strategy seems to work. Just take it home for the evening...

(That said, my new frame's geometry is very close to my old frame's. So, unless Giovanni's engineers really screwed up on the "feel" I should be okay. I'll let you know in a few days.)


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## acid_rider (Nov 23, 2004)

*i agree*



Voodoochile said:


> Yes I know about that. Time frames are over priced IMO but this seems to be a bargain with the head set and fork. I'm also looking at the Cinelli Willin Module Frameset. Anyone know about that one?


yes, i agree, Time frames are overpriced, even more so now than when I bought my Edge First in 2006. You are paying for EU labour prices when you buy Time that is made in EU.
i bought Time because the geometry suited me better than other frame but I also liked the looks.

but Time Speeder is no bargain, it's one of million other cheap to make Asian made cookie-cutter carbon frames. Speeder is no better (or not worse) then entry level carbon Giant/et al frames, IMO but I suspect Giant carbon will be even better value for money and similar geometry.


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## Voodoochile (Apr 10, 2009)

acid_rider said:


> yes, i agree, Time frames are overpriced, even more so now than when I bought my Edge First in 2006. You are paying for EU labour prices when you buy Time that is made in EU.
> i bought Time because the geometry suited me better than other frame but I also liked the looks.
> 
> but Time Speeder is no bargain, it's one of million other cheap to make Asian made cookie-cutter carbon frames. Speeder is no better (or not worse) then entry level carbon Giant/et al frames, IMO but I suspect Giant carbon will be even better value for money and similar geometry.


Yes I've pretty much ruled out all the frames I mentiond on this page. I just started looking at carbon frames and there's alot to consider. I'm lost now. I think I may start looking at Giant. If I buy a euro bike it will have to be another steel frame I think the carbon Euro frames are over priced. :thumbsup:


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## acid_rider (Nov 23, 2004)

*we are on the same page*



Voodoochile said:


> Yes I've pretty much ruled out all the frames I mentiond on this page. I just started looking at carbon frames and there's alot to consider. I'm lost now. I think I may start looking at Giant. If I buy a euro bike it will have to be another steel frame I think the carbon Euro frames are over priced. :thumbsup:


You and me both.

Ramblings below

I am replacing my carbon Time Edge (which has served me well for 3 years now) with a custom Titanium frame next month. I think all "plastic" frames are now overpriced because it's all the rage in the market yet they are now cheap to make. The Euro plastic frames are most overpriced and among those frames the worst offenders are big-name-brands which actually make their frames in 3rd world - like Pinarello, Asian made Colnagos, Time Speeder, Ridley, Look, Bianchi, etc for example. Then you have Cervelo, Specialised, Cannondales which also charge heaps for their frames yet make their frames in 3rd world cheaply. It is all about bigger company profits, so I can't blame them (!) but I can do what we buyers can and look after myself by refusing to pay the high price of entry for a brand logo. Asian made Specialize and Colnago are probably made using same technology and in same factory. Merida (I think) makes Cervelo carbon, for example and they also make Specialized carbon. Giant makes carbon frames for other brands. And so on. You and I pay the middle-men which actually add very little value. Eliminate the middle-men I say.

You know when off-the-shelf bicycle is overpriced when it costs near enough as much as off-the-shelf motor-cycle!

Not to mention one fall and your expensive carbon plastic frame could become expensive pile of worthless rubbish. So I am reverting back to metals for now - titanium and steel, in that order. Weight obsessed need not apply here.

End of rumblings.


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## Voodoochile (Apr 10, 2009)

I'm looking at this frame on eBay right now figuring out how I could swing the deal.
I would almost hate to ride it but I think I would get over it. :yesnod:


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## sooni (Jul 31, 2009)

ktuck said:


> Bwahaha, do you work for backcountry.com? One of the reasons I bought my frame from them was the price, $900 for a $2700 frame, but also because of their anytime, no-questions-asked return policy. They'll even take the frame back if I accidentally cut the steerer 1/4" above the headset, or if I crash it, or if....
> 
> I've bought tons of stuff at bonktown, whiskeymilitia, steepandcheap, et al and have always been able to send back anything I didn't like, for any reason, or for no reason. Just like with Costco, it's a good business model. There are more honest people than devious people in this world and the puppy dog sale strategy seems to work. Just take it home for the evening...
> 
> (That said, my new frame's geometry is very close to my old frame's. So, unless Giovanni's engineers really screwed up on the "feel" I should be okay. I'll let you know in a few days.)


I'm 5'8 and got fitted for a 50cm Caad9, the opera came up for 950 and I grabbed it. It seemed to have almost identical geometry. Just out of curiosity wht size bike do you usually ride?


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## Voodoochile (Apr 10, 2009)

sooni said:


> I'm 5'8 and got fitted for a 50cm Caad9, the opera came up for 950 and I grabbed it. It seemed to have almost identical geometry. Just out of curiosity wht size bike do you usually ride?


I ride a 55cm c-c Top tube with a 120 stem. I like the 55 seat tubes c-t but 55 c-c is fine also. That's a perfect fit for me though. I could ride a 56 TT with a 110 but a seat tube 56 c-c is a little bige for me. My Tommasini is a 55cm TT with the ST 55 c-t. I'm 5'10"


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## ktuck (Jul 3, 2008)

sooni said:


> .... the opera came up for 950 and I grabbed it. ... Just out of curiosity wht size bike do you usually ride?


There's an issue that can be confusing. Pinarello makes an Opera frame, but Pinarello also has an offshoot brand called Opera.

Did you get the Pinarello Opera frame or the Opera Canova frame? I got the 55cm Opera Canova, same size as my Litespeed. The only significant difference is the top tube length, so I put on a slightly shorter stem.

I'm just at the final stages of building it (messing with SRAM adjustments) and my initial impressions are that it feels lighter (but it still doesn't have a seat bag yet) and that it has a different "resonance" which might also include some increased stiffness. I'm still not sure whether I'll keep the newer carbon Opera or the older Litespeed.


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## ultimobici (Jul 16, 2005)

acid_rider said:


> You and me both.
> 
> Ramblings below
> 
> ...


Having visited Time's factory near Lyon in France, I can tell you that the main Time range is not over priced at all. The amount of work that goes into them is massive. They make *everything* inhouse from carbon strands as opposed to bought in carbon sheet, If I damage my VXRS I can have it repaired to good as new by Time, thanks to the lugged construction.
The Speeder is Asian built but remember that it comes with the same fork as a VXR Pro Team. On its own it costs £400 ($640)!! The quality of finish is way above most other Asisn frames including Cervelos I have seen in my shop.


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## sooni (Jul 31, 2009)

ktuck said:


> There's an issue that can be confusing. Pinarello makes an Opera frame, but Pinarello also has an offshoot brand called Opera.
> 
> Did you get the Pinarello Opera frame or the Opera Canova frame? I got the 55cm Opera Canova, same size as my Litespeed. The only significant difference is the top tube length, so I put on a slightly shorter stem.
> 
> I'm just at the final stages of building it (messing with SRAM adjustments) and my initial impressions are that it feels lighter (but it still doesn't have a seat bag yet) and that it has a different "resonance" which might also include some increased stiffness. I'm still not sure whether I'll keep the newer carbon Opera or the older Litespeed.


I did get the Pinarello Opera (2004) model. It has almost identical geometry to the CAAD9 frame (50cm), which was fitted at my LBS. I just keep having doubts because I am a tad under 5'8 and from all the forums im reading the bike is "supposed" to be too small. Ive also heard that stems longer than 120mm can affect the balance and steering response.


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