# Can your heart explode?



## SkippyCycle (Apr 20, 2006)

Please help me understand my heart rate monitor and my potential to do harm to myself.

I'm early 40's and a big guy at 240, but I love to ride and did 3500 miles last year (never race - officially). This year it's going well and I feel I'm in better shape than I've been in a long time.

My Sunday AM group ride is about 40 miles and we averaged 17.6 mph today. I wear a heart rate monitor and often push into the 85-90% of max range to hang and 93% of max to pull. Today, one of the younger pups was feeling frisky and started chasing two guys up the road. Of course, I had to chase him. 

Well, these two guys were stronger than we originally thought and were a big fish to reel in. It took about 8 miles of all out effort and I saw my HR monitor hit 99% of max (first time ever) and I felt some serious pressure in my head. I actually felt something click or tick in my brain. It kind of spooked me and I backed off even though I felt strong. In fact, it was kind of odd, because at 99% the suffering seemed to go away and I seemed to go in a new gear I've never experienced before. (Maybe I'm actually in the hospital right now and this is all just a dream)

My question then is can you blow your heart or bust a blood vessel if you go too hard? Is it possible to push yourself to a point of self destruction or is there a fuse somewhere that would blow before serious harm?

Thanks


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## The Flash (May 6, 2002)

From my experience....

Unless you already have genetic defect/heart problem, you won't explode. After 3500 miles, if you had a problem, you would already know it. 

How do you know what your max HR is? Have you done a stress test at a hospital? If not, I'm pretty sure that you don't have the right number, so bump up whatever you think it is about 10bpm.

My personal advice...turn off the HR monitor, or block it so you can't see it! It will affect your training too much and make you back off too early. I used to put a sticker over my Polar and then download it when I get home. With my PowerTap, I can hide the HR display.

The Flash


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## allons-y (Nov 15, 2006)

as the flash said, at 3.5k miles, you would prbly know it if you had a bigtime problem.

also as the flash said, staring at your hr moniter will often cause you to back off too early. for races, i tend to put mine in my pocket or wear it on my wrist where i cant really see it. this way i still get the data, and if i really need it ican look, however am not forced to look at it. 

in training i like to ride with on the wrist so i can see it and do my intervals and such.

however for racing (you said you dont race, but you like to go hard on group rides, so the same would apply) looking is bad. if you have the self control to have it on your wrist and not look, by all means, otherwise leave it at home or tape over it or something, since it will only hold you back. there have been many times, myself and others have been going hard for a long time, only to look down, see a reallly high hr, and back off. just ignore it. i hit a new maxhr 2 weekends ago at crit (by 2bpm). had i been watching it, that never would have happened.....


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## HSalas (Sep 23, 2005)

SkippyCycle said:


> Please help me understand my heart rate monitor and my potential to do harm to myself.
> .
> .
> Well, these two guys were stronger than we originally thought and were a big fish to reel in. It took about 8 miles of all out effort and I saw my HR monitor hit 99% of max (first time ever) and I felt some serious pressure in my head. I actually felt something click or tick in my brain. It kind of spooked me and I backed off even though I felt strong. In fact, it was kind of odd, because at 99% the suffering seemed to go away and I seemed to go in a new gear I've never experienced before. (Maybe I'm actually in the hospital right now and this is all just a dream)
> ...


(emphasis added)

Based on what you describe, I'd go ahead and get that stress test - I'd be concerned that you're driving up your BP to an exceedingly high level...

During exercise, your HR and BP are supposed to increase - up to a point. This helps get more blood (and therefore oxygen) to exercising muscles and the body can accomodate this. Medications and cardiac disease can make either not respond they way they're supposed to (that is, no significant rise or even a drop in HR or BP). 

Some people have what is called a "hypertensive response" to exercise, so the BP goes beyond what the body is physiologically ready for, so you can end up with the potential bad results of acute high BP - chest pains, headaches, and even vision changes and at worst, bursting an blood vessel if the pressure is high enough.

So, you may not necessarily cause your heart to burst, but you could blow something else (like a vessel in your brain). You have at least a couple of risk factors for some sort of cardiovascular disease (age, size) and maybe more? (hypertension, family history, high cholesterol, smoking?). Get checked out...


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## The Flash (May 6, 2002)

I'm going to follow up with telling you to get that stress test as well. 

How exactly did you feel something in your brain? There are no nerve endings in there, so your really not going to feel anything from there. I wouldn't sweat it at all. If things ever get too crazy hard your body does something wonderful like making you puke or pass out. Thank your vasal vagus nerve for this. This is your bodies system to bring your heart rate back down to normal and does a mighty fine job of it.

On the heart rate thread, from my cardiologist....your heart can support an incredibly high heart rate for quite a long time. They actually have a test where they do this on purpose to test it to look for problems. I was told that you could get into the high 200's for over an hour. Now you may pass out from it, and they do sedate you during the test for that reason. Either way, nothing you do in cycling is going to get you close to that....so just go ride!

The Flash


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## bas (Jul 30, 2004)

Might knock some plaque loose and cause a blood clot.

Is your 240 a fat or muscular? what's your bodyfat?

What kind of bike do you ride?

And your max is about 180?





HSalas said:


> (emphasis added)
> 
> Based on what you describe, I'd go ahead and get that stress test - I'd be concerned that you're driving up your BP to an exceedingly high level...
> 
> ...


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## Bocephus Jones II (Oct 7, 2004)

bas said:


> Might knock some plaque loose and cause a blood clot.
> 
> Is your 240 a fat or muscular? what's your bodyfat?
> 
> ...


Yup...how was the Max determined? If 220-age it's probably way off.


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## bas (Jul 30, 2004)

Bocephus Jones II said:


> Yup...how was the Max determined? If 220-age it's probably way off.


for me, 220-33 = 187.. I've hit 190 this year.. so it's pretty close for me. 193 was last year.. 196 was the year before.

I suspect it might steady for a few years now.


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## bas (Jul 30, 2004)

bas said:


> for me, 220-33 = 187.. I've hit 190 this year.. so it's pretty close for me. 193 was last year.. 196 was the year before.
> 
> I suspect it might steady for a few years now.


It might go a few more beats higher in a race.. but probably not anymore.


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## pushing_tin (Feb 11, 2007)

I am 32 and in fairly good shape. I did a 4 mile run the other day and sprinted the last 1/4 mile or so. My heart rate at max was 200bpm, well over my max. Any danger in doing this? I was out of breath for a minute or two, but recovered rapidly. 

You can look at my run here, and click on heart rate to see the spike at the end.
http://trail.motionbased.com/trail/activity/2712362


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## iliveonnitro (Feb 19, 2006)

Sorry, but you can't hold your max HR for 12 seconds during exercise. I'd stick with your previous max HR of 196.

There is absolutely no formula for finding max HR, but a "best fit" line was suggested by...forgot who...to be 210-(.5)(age). My max HR according to a stress test is 200 and I'm 20 years old, so it's a big coincidence. allons-y is the same age as me and his max is around 210...same for estone2, too, I believe.

Just a tip for the stress test: don't look at their screen because you will stop prematurely when you find your (imaginary) predetermined max HR.


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## SkippyCycle (Apr 20, 2006)

Good advice all. 
My heart rate max was simply set by the computer. (enter age, weight, sex, etc) About 180 max or so I think although I have it set to display %, not beats.

Your multiple comments about the psychology of HR monitors is spot on. When I started wearing it, I found it actually hurt my performance. Kinda freaked me out that the ole ticker was working so hard. In fact, that's why I switched to % of max instead of actual beats. Anything under 100% was going to be ok or so I thought. 

Funny story, I discovered the % feature by accident. One day I was riding and saw I was only pushing 90 beats or so even though we were going at a good clip. I thought to my self, "self, you're really getting strong" so I surged even harder. What a let down when I realized it was %.

Question though, is it possible the HR monitor becomes inaccurate as my fitness increases? I mean, If I'm riding a lot and improve my fitness, will my max HR increase thus allowing a reading that looks too high. For example, 99% of max is actually now 97%of max since my heart is getting stronger. Wishful thinking?


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## The Flash (May 6, 2002)

SkippyCycle said:


> Good advice all.
> My heart rate max was simply set by the computer. (enter age, weight, sex, etc) About 180 max or so I think although I have it set to display %, not beats.
> 
> Your multiple comments about the psychology of HR monitors is spot on. When I started wearing it, I found it actually hurt my performance. Kinda freaked me out that the ole ticker was working so hard. In fact, that's why I switched to % of max instead of actual beats. Anything under 100% was going to be ok or so I thought.
> ...


I don't think it will become inaccurate as it is just a counter. You can adjust the max hr in the monitor so it has a correct number in it. Unless you are doing some specific training where you are on your own, trying to keep it in a certain range, put some tape over it and ride! Then you can analyze it when you get home.

Keep in mind that your HR will probably never be the same because of all the conditions that can affect it...dehydration, adrenalin, wind, hills, overtraining. On top of that, your HR is always a "response" to the effort and may be delayed for a bit. 

The Flash


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## TurboTurtle (Feb 4, 2004)

SkippyCycle said:


> Good advice all.
> My heart rate max was simply set by the computer. (enter age, weight, sex, etc) About 180 max or so I think although I have it set to display %, not beats.
> 
> Your multiple comments about the psychology of HR monitors is spot on. When I started wearing it, I found it actually hurt my performance. Kinda freaked me out that the ole ticker was working so hard. In fact, that's why I switched to % of max instead of actual beats. Anything under 100% was going to be ok or so I thought.
> ...


The HR monitor cannot know your MaxHR. There is no formula that works. The % of Max means nothing. - TF


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## The Flash (May 6, 2002)

Most of the Polars have an option for you to enter it, or calculate it using the 220-age formula when you enter your age. Unless you have an accurate maxHR, it is kind of useless, but the option is there...

Flash


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## stevesbike (Jun 3, 2002)

"After 3500 miles, if you had a problem, you would already know it."

This is not true. Two famous cases are Jim Fixx (the runner) and Ed Burke, one of the main figures of American cycling science, who died of a heart attack while riding. See http://www.roadbikerider.com/yourturn2.htm for more info. Both had family histories of heart disease

Especially if you have a family history of heart disease you should talk with your doctor regarding cardiology tests: a stress test is only one of several options. The web link above discusses these. 

Regarding MaxHR, it doesn't mean much in terms of fitness/potential as there is substantial individual variability in this number and it is not highly trainable. Using it as a training basis isn't very meaningful, as it does not relate directly to training parameters. Lactate threshold is a more meaningful #, is trainable, and therefore could be anywhere from under 70 to over 90 percent of MaxHR. There are various ways to determine this number trough field testing.


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## Bocephus Jones II (Oct 7, 2004)

bas said:


> for me, 220-33 = 187.. I've hit 190 this year.. so it's pretty close for me. 193 was last year.. 196 was the year before.
> 
> I suspect it might steady for a few years now.


The 220 - age was designed for sedentary individuals. You will lose some max over time, but no reason it has to be a beat a year. If you stay active it'll be higher than the norm. I'm 42 and can routinely hit 185 during hard efforts. 220-age says my max should be 178. I used to be able to get over 190 in my 30s during sprints, but I suspect my max has gone down a bit since then.


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## bas (Jul 30, 2004)

pushing_tin said:


> I am 32 and in fairly good shape. I did a 4 mile run the other day and sprinted the last 1/4 mile or so. My heart rate at max was 200bpm, well over my max. Any danger in doing this? I was out of breath for a minute or two, but recovered rapidly.
> 
> You can look at my run here, and click on heart rate to see the spike at the end.
> http://trail.motionbased.com/trail/activity/2712362



We were discussing the biking max HR. Not running, which runs higher.


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## Bocephus Jones II (Oct 7, 2004)

bas said:


> We were discussing the biking max HR. Not running, which runs higher.


True...I do think the term Max HR is a bit of a misnomer though. Really there is a max hr that your heart can beat and you'll never see that because your body limits itself so your heart can't "esplode"  Running uses more overall muscles than cycling so the "max" is usually higher for that sport.


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## ericm979 (Jun 26, 2005)

Polars have a setting that'll use the highest HR the computer sees as your max, and update it when it sees a higher HR.

When I started riding again at age 40 my "max" went up each year for about four years as I got into better shape.


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## MikeBiker (Mar 9, 2003)

For a good analysis of the 220-age formula (and others) read this. You'll then know that max heart rate varies so much that any equation is pretty worthless.


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## The Flash (May 6, 2002)

stevesbike said:


> "After 3500 miles, if you had a problem, you would already know it."
> 
> This is not true. Two famous cases are Jim Fixx (the runner) and Ed Burke, one of the main figures of American cycling science, who died of a heart attack while riding. See http://www.roadbikerider.com/yourturn2.htm for more info. Both had family histories of heart disease
> 
> ...



Very true....it only takes a tiny piece of plaque to make you stroke out. Nothing you can do about that....

I would liken cycling to a stress test. He's probably done 100's of them by now and if he had a problem that had noticeable symptoms, he'd know. Either way, I'm not a doctor, so go see an expert....

Flash


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## Len J (Jan 28, 2004)

220 - age is a joke.

I'm 52 YO so by formula my Max S/B 168. On Saturday, I did a 50 mile ride where I maintained 168BPM + or - 5 breats for the entire ride.

I've tested my LT (Using the TT method) at 181.
I've seen 201 on the bike.

Read Joe Friel's data on traing to LT not Max HR.

Len


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## aliensporebomb (Jul 2, 2002)

Hmmm. Pushing_tin: what device are you using for all of those cool beans, one of
those Garmin 305 dealios or? You're 32 so you're not a young pup anymore but 
you also are not as old as I, a reasonably healthy 43 year old. 

Since 2004 I've thought my true max was in the 183-185 range since numerous
rides peaked out there.

Well, I was on a 40-mile road ride and was crossing the road at the light and
while I was in the intersection a guy ran the red light and came inches from
hitting me. A huge burst of adrenaline kicked in at that point and I moved 
like I rarely do. My Max HR said it was 192.

BUT, I also know my Polar HRM is prone to interference from electrical lines,
radio transmitters and also electronic dog fences. Those damn dog fences in
particular interfere. I've also in spin classes seen guys with the same model 
HRM I have interfere causing doubled readings, it's totally weird. 

But in the two to three years after that I've topped out around 188 (not running).

I've seen one or two (probably errant) readings in the 192-196. When I see that
I take my pulse manually to verify and it's been below that every time. I've got
an older style analog hrm and that's what happens with those.

Mind you, this is after riding 11,000 some miles and losing a lot of weight
and changing my entire diet/activity profile.

I don't think your heart can "explode" in the traditional sense, however, I do
believe you should consult a medical professional (prefereably one who 
specializes in athletes) if you are concerned about these readings. I know
that I'm paying careful attention to this.


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## pushing_tin (Feb 11, 2007)

^^ I'm not that young, I'm 32. Up until a few years ago I was very active and fit, but my job and diet were catching up with me so I decided to get back into shape earlier this year. I'm 5'6 and started at 176lbs. Through running, biking, rollerblading and a much better diet I've lost 26lbs and feel great. 

I have both a Garmin Forerunner 305 for running and other sports, and and Edge 305 for biking. I've found knowing exactly how far I've gone, and logging calories burned, heart rate, mile split times etc has been extremely motivitating and pushes me to do a little better each time, but perhaps pushing myself to 200bpm is a little much!


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## pushing_tin (Feb 11, 2007)

bas said:


> We were discussing the biking max HR. Not running, which runs higher.



I understand that, I was just looking for general feedback for those in the know. I have seen my heart rate approach 190 on a long steep climb.


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## MR_GRUMPY (Aug 21, 2002)

Yes, your heart can explode.......but only if you have an alien inside your chest.
.
Max heart rate doesn't mean squat. Some people have hummingbird hearts, while others have elephant hearts. I've seen my own "max HR" go from the low 180's when I first started training to the low 190's, 5 or 6 years ago. As I've put on a few more years, I've seen it go down a beat or so every year since then. If I would go by the 220-age=max formula, my "so-called" max HR would be 25 beats below what it actually is.


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## MikeBiker (Mar 9, 2003)

MR_GRUMPY said:


> I've seen my own "max HR" go from the low 180's when I first started training to the low 190's, 5 or 6 years ago. As I've put on a few more years, I've seen it go down a beat or so every year since then. If I would go by the 220-age=max formula, my "so-called" max HR would be 25 beats below what it actually is.


That's because you are all heart, Mr. Grumpy.


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## bicycle_studio (May 2, 2007)

*Never ever take advice....*

...on anything "medicine" from these forums. The lack of good information is astounding.



The Flash said:


> How exactly did you feel something in your brain? There are no nerve endings in there, so your really not going to feel anything from there. I wouldn't sweat it at all. If things ever get too crazy hard your body does something wonderful like making you puke or pass out. Thank your vasal vagus nerve for this. This is your bodies system to bring your heart rate back down to normal and does a mighty fine job of it.


Get checked by a sports physician. This is no guarantee of prevention of any medical issue, but it will give you more information.


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## estone2 (Sep 25, 2005)

iliveonnitro said:


> Sorry, but you can't hold your max HR for 12 seconds during exercise. I'd stick with your previous max HR of 196.


Orly?

Strange, I held my max for 20 during a VO2Max last year... That being said, afterwards my body... stopped working. I couldn't walk for the next 5 minutes, so I doubt anyone would ever push that hard during normal 'exercise' (IE racing/riding, where the ability to keep going after the maximal effort is important).

My max is about 210 on the bike, you're right. Running I can go over 220, but I'm fried within a few seconds.

-estone2


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## aliensporebomb (Jul 2, 2002)

One of my personal trainers I work with said that, as your body acclimatizes to 
exercise your anaerobic threshold will increase as you get more fit. I suspect
that there is a similar effect on the heart - it acclimatizes to work and adjusts
accordingly.

Your heart can adapt to a lot but yes, the Jim Fixx and Ed Burke lessons are
something to think about and get checked out if you're worried. 

I even know in my own case - my grandfather was a baptist minister and lived
clean and lived into his eighties but my father was a sedentary smoker who 
died of heart disease in his fifties. It shows that certain models don't handle
abuse well apparently.

I've been pretty careful but I know that there is a genetic chance I could have 
inherited some of that even though I did not adopt his bad habits (never smoked 
and even when I was overweight I exercised regularly, now I'm as slim as I've been 
since high school thanks to the cycling and working out).


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## zhmontana (Aug 16, 2004)

In a crit this weekend, my HR exceeded 190bpm for the last 5 minutes of the race, steadily climbing to 199 about 5 seconds after i crossed the line in the sprint. I was tired afterwards, but fine.


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