# Carbon clincher braking performance



## BugMan (Feb 16, 2004)

It's been a few years since I've been in the market for wheels, and I'm wondering if carbon clincher braking performance is still the issue it was when they first came out. I had planned to get carbon with alum brake tracks, but if there has been enough improvement with all-carbons it would be a way to save some weight.

i plan to use them every day (if you don't agree with that concept, then deal with it). Most of my miles will be aggressive riding on dry, moderate terrain with occasional short, sharp climbs/descents. This should normally present little issue, but I don't want to find myself afraid to bomb the occasional longer descents or worried about getting caught in the rain (I do have a separate "rain bike").

Opinions of those with current, real road experience will be valued much more than those of armchair theorists with an axe to grind. I'm looking at the Reynolds Assaults.


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## mrwirey (May 30, 2008)

I cannot differentiate between my Zipp Firecrest 303s and 808s and any of my higher end aluminum rims (Mavic Ksyrium SLs, HED Jet 9, Zipp 101, Campagnolo Shamal Two-Way Fit). The braking on the Zipps is flawless. My Spinergy FCC (I believe Corima makes the rims) are equally as good. No modulation, fading, or anything untoward. By comparison I have a set of Chinese made carbon clinchers, which are pretty bad when the brakes are applied. The brake tracks are obviously to blame as the braking is highly modulated and uneven. I would have no problem riding my Zipps or Spinergy wheelsets everyday other than fear of pothole damage. I would probably run 700x25c tires if I did use them on a daily basis just for my own peace of mind.
Very respectfully, Tim


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## cxwrench (Nov 9, 2004)

i'll agree w/ the above post. the quality and safety of braking with carbon clinchers has improved dramtically in just the last couple of years. i would say that Zipp and Bontrager at the best, and most consistent. the new Enve rims are excellent as well. i have no experience w/ the newer Reynolds rims, but i'm sure they've gotten better as well. 

just make sure you use the recommended pads, and pay attention to the rim makers max allowable tire pressure.


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## xjbaylor (Dec 28, 2006)

If you get caught out in a storm you will notice a difference between carbon and aluminum rims with regards to braking. As long as you are capable of correcting for the increased stopping distance there are no issues riding carbon rims in the rain on occasion, or more often if you so desire.


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## BugMan (Feb 16, 2004)

If brand is important I should mention that I can't afford Zipp, Enve, etc. I'm looking at the Reynolds because Performance has them on sale for $999. My max budget is $1200-1500.


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## rdubbz (Sep 23, 2008)

not bad unless you get caught in a downpour. then you might as well not have brakes.


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## Jay Strongbow (May 8, 2010)

Stopping power isn't much of an an issue with newer reputable carbon rims in dry weather, clincher or otherwise.

Heat build up to the point of blowing a tube is potentially another story though. The real high end companies (Enve for example) have done the testing and from what I understand have that well under control. Others.....the jury is out. Most riders won't encounter the type of braking required to overheat them so it's a non-issue for most but a blanket statement of "it's no longer an issue" wouldn't be accurate in all cases either.


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## Munk69 (Mar 10, 2011)

Hi Bug,

I just got a pair of Reynolds Assaults and the braking is just fine. I feel the braking is no diffrent that on my Bontrager Alloy wheels. The reynolds pads are very nice and easy to put on. Also, the Assaults that Performance is selling come with the ctg brake system. 

I love the wheels. Very happy I got them. One thing I will say tho, they are stiff! You will feel bumps.. I am running 100 f 105 r and it seems to help smooth them out a bit. 

Linky to ctg braking from Reynolds. 

Reynolds Cycling


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## 32and3cross (Feb 28, 2005)

rdubbz said:


> not bad unless you get caught in a downpour. then you might as well not have brakes.


I did not find this to be the case at all when I ran carbon wheels a few years ago. I raced more than one crit in the rain withe swiss stop pads and while the braking was not as good at my alu wheels it was good enough.


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## rdubbz (Sep 23, 2008)

32and3cross said:


> I did not find this to be the case at all when I ran carbon wheels a few years ago. I raced more than one crit in the rain withe swiss stop pads and while the braking was not as good at my alu wheels it was good enough.


downpour, not rain. with rain or wet conditions, one wheel rotation while braking is usually enough to dry the wheels. in a downpour, the wheels don't dry no matter how much you brake.


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## 32and3cross (Feb 28, 2005)

rdubbz said:


> downpour, not rain. with rain or wet conditions, one wheel rotation while braking is usually enough to dry the wheels. in a downpour, the wheels don't dry no matter how much you brake.


I raced in more than one downpour, I understand the meaning of the word.

In that condition you have to preskim you break tracks before you apply full braking force. Its not optimal for any braking surface and def the carbon was not as good at the alu but is was not no existant.


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## BugMan (Feb 16, 2004)

I can count on one hand the number of times I've ridden in a downpour - and only one time was that a race - so I'm not so concerned about 'downpour' braking performance.

I guess at this point I'm looking for specific brand recommendations at that $1000-1500 price point that I have to stay within. Reynolds has been mentioned, but are there others?

p.s. really appreciate all the great comments I've already gotten.


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## rdubbz (Sep 23, 2008)

32and3cross said:


> I raced in more than one downpour, I understand the meaning of the word.


lighten up, cupcake.

OP, it's all good. ride in all the rain you want. nothing bad can happen.


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## jsedlak (Jun 17, 2008)

My 404s do not brake well at all in the "full" wet. With aluminum, you get some slip and then they grab hard. With the carbon, you get slip, more slip and then slowly they start to grab.

Other than that, I prefer the characteristics of the carbon braking even if the stopping distance is increased a bit over aluminum competitors.


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## Cableguy (Jun 6, 2010)

I've had two Boyd wheels (carbon clinchers) warp out at the rim due to excessive braking. In one case I was going down an approx 6% grade hill at 40mph, and had to come to a full stop in about 15 seconds. In the other case I was on the brakes for about 2 minutes coming down a steep hill with lots of potholes. Used them for about a year, and otherwise did not have an issue with braking. Rarely rode them in the rain, so can't really comment on braking performance when wet. However, I'm content using aluminum rims now.


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## BugMan (Feb 16, 2004)

Also keep in mind I'm talking about newer model carbon clinchers - heat buildup and such is a well documented problem with older models. Reynolds and others are now claiming technological advances in their wheels that have significantly reduced such issues. If you don't mention how old your wheels are, I have no way of knowing how relevant your comment is.


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## 32and3cross (Feb 28, 2005)

rdubbz said:


> lighten up, cupcake.
> 
> OP, it's all good. ride in all the rain you want. nothing bad can happen.


Nah you lighten up first fruit pie.


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## mrwirey (May 30, 2008)

Here is a link to a short review someone posted about Spinergy Full Carbon Clinchers. I paid $1,250 for mine and this 'poster' paid the same. I couldn't find any information about them before I bought them; I just took a leap of faith. They have served me well to date and I have well over 3,000 miles on them.
V/r, Tim
Spinergy Stealth FCC review (45mm full carbon clincher) - Weight Weenies

More reviews here:
Spinergy Stealth FCC wheelsets - clincher Reviews

Picture of my Cysco Steel with Spinergy FCC:
View attachment 278351


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## BugMan (Feb 16, 2004)

Sweet ride!


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## tihsepa (Nov 27, 2008)

No need to jump on but my Reynolds stop just fine.


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## cxwrench (Nov 9, 2004)

rdubbz said:


> lighten up, cupcake.
> 
> OP, it's all good. ride in all the rain you want. nothing bad can happen.


you have no idea who 32&3 is, i'd just stop making smart ass comments now and forget about it. the guy has more race experience than you can possibly comprehend.


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## deviousalex (Aug 18, 2010)

I have reynolds DV3Ks with the CTg braking surface. It's fine most of the time but on long descents you get brake fade. It's not really bad but it's noticeable. Wet weather braking is not comparable to alloy though. I've also managed to glaze the pads quite a bit so you have to sand off the glaze a lot.

Just for reference I live in the SF bay area where I regularly go down technical 7-8% descents that are 3-6 miles long. I also consider myself a fairly competent descender so I'm not on the brakes unnecessarily.


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## BugMan (Feb 16, 2004)

Thanks for all the great advice. I took the plunge and ordered a set of Reynolds Assault all-carbon clinchers. Can't wait to see them on my bike matched with red Michelin Pro Race 3 tires.


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## Stumpjumper FSR (Aug 6, 2006)

deviousalex said:


> I have reynolds DV3Ks with the CTg braking surface. It's fine most of the time but on long descents you get brake fade. It's not really bad but it's noticeable. Wet weather braking is not comparable to alloy though. I've also managed to glaze the pads quite a bit so you have to sand off the glaze a lot.
> 
> Just for reference I live in the SF bay area where I regularly go down technical 7-8% descents that are 3-6 miles long. I also consider myself a fairly competent descender so I'm not on the brakes unnecessarily.


The DV3K's did not have the CTg braking system, I just sold mine and
picked up some 2012 Assaults with CTg. Big improvement in braking over the DV3K's!


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## coachboyd (Jan 13, 2008)

Cableguy said:


> I've had two Boyd wheels (carbon clinchers) warp out at the rim due to excessive braking. In one case I was going down an approx 6% grade hill at 40mph, and had to come to a full stop in about 15 seconds. In the other case I was on the brakes for about 2 minutes coming down a steep hill with lots of potholes. Used them for about a year, and otherwise did not have an issue with braking. Rarely rode them in the rain, so can't really comment on braking performance when wet. However, I'm content using aluminum rims now.


I do want to chime in and say that was our older model stuff, and we did not have any control over the R&D that was put into them, or the type of carbon that was used. They are rims that were also found on other lines and I know there was a couple problems on longer descents as well. When we opened the moulds for our new stuff we spent a LOT of time working on the heat issue with carbon clinchers, in fact it took about 14 months of work to have the rims ready to be released. The new stuff is tons better at resisting heat and the braking performance is also a lot better compared to the older models.


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## BugMan (Feb 16, 2004)

Stumpjumper FSR said:


> The DV3K's did not have the CTg braking system, I just sold mine and
> picked up some 2012 Assaults with CTg. Big improvement in braking over the DV3K's!


That's good to hear. The CTg braking system played a part in my decision to go ahead and take the plunge (along with being able to get them new and fully warrantied for under $1K).


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## jsedlak (Jun 17, 2008)

BugMan said:


> Also keep in mind I'm talking about newer model carbon clinchers - heat buildup and such is a well documented problem with older models. Reynolds and others are now claiming technological advances in their wheels that have significantly reduced such issues. If you don't mention how old your wheels are, I have no way of knowing how relevant your comment is.


I ride 2011 Firecrest 404s.

I ride with someone who has the 2012 model and happens to brake a lot (too much) on descents. On steeper hills he will simply grab the brakes the whole way down. While these descents in Jersey aren't overly technical or absurdly fast, they are usually steep (5-18%) and somewhat short (up to a mile or two). He's had zero issues with tubes exploding.

I haven't either, but I'm a "grab hard for short periods of time" guy, so heat buildup rarely happens. If it does, it's followed by a long period off the brakes.


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## BugMan (Feb 16, 2004)

So far I'm pretty happy with these wheels - they roll just as nice as the Zipps and definitely spin up faster. I've not noticed any difference in braking performance (only done dry rides).

Nothing like new wheels (and handlebar tape) to make a 4-yr old frame with 8-yr old components look and feel like a brand new bike!


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## Newnan3 (Jul 8, 2011)

coachboyd said:


> I do want to chime in and say that was our older model stuff, and we did not have any control over the R&D that was put into them, or the type of carbon that was used. They are rims that were also found on other lines and I know there was a couple problems on longer descents as well. When we opened the moulds for our new stuff we spent a LOT of time working on the heat issue with carbon clinchers, in fact it took about 14 months of work to have the rims ready to be released. The new stuff is tons better at resisting heat and the braking performance is also a lot better compared to the older models.


When you say the "older models" how old do you mean? Last years? 4yrs ago?


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## S2k552m (Apr 23, 2012)

no experience with reynolds but do have bonty xxx lites and zipp 404fc, both CC ... I use bonty cork pads (and do have a pair of zipp cork I will swap them out for soon due to wear). I am sticking with cork and don't plan on try the SS yellows or Zipp silvers. Am very happy with both wheels, was a little scared at first due to what I read but am happy with the choices now that I have mileage on these wheels.
I am a light weight, do ride the hills alot, have had no issues decending and stopping or with general brake performace. 
I do have a wet weather bike so this ride with the CC never sees wet, I wouldn't want to be in the rain with the cork ...


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## Munk69 (Mar 10, 2011)

https://www.dropbox.com/s/nigc7yc0mzkbqsr/2013-03-08%2016.46.28.jpg?m


BugMan said:


> So far I'm pretty happy with these wheels - they roll just as nice as the Zipps and definitely spin up faster. I've not noticed any difference in braking performance (only done dry rides).
> 
> Nothing like new wheels (and handlebar tape) to make a 4-yr old frame with 8-yr old components look and feel like a brand new bike!


Nice Looking ride dude!


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