# Does the Podium Girls section offend you?



## the_don

Because if it does, and Brushout's photos especially, then they should just delete the section. 

But if it's fine with you, and maybe you also like to check out the cute girl de jour then they should leave it. 

If you didnt know, they are trying to clean it up and make this forum more female friendly. 

So what do you really think?


----------



## Becky

Why do you ask?


----------



## il sogno

the_don said:


> Because if it does, and Brushout's photos especially, then they should just delete the section.
> 
> But if it's fine with you, *and maybe you also like to check out the cute girl de jour* then they should leave it.
> 
> If you didnt know, they are trying to clean it up and make this forum more female friendly.
> 
> So what do you really think?


I found Brushout's photos and the comments in that forum to be misogynistic. 

What is sad about that forum is that women have clicked onto it to check out women's racing. That's how I first came upon it. When we see what it's really all about - guys doing the ole one handed typing and making insulting, degrading comments about the girls in the pics - we leave. Brushout's posts brings that forum to a new low. 

I don't care if it gets deleted or not, but if the admins decided to do it I wouldn't miss it one bit. 

And seriously do you really think us girls get a kick out of peeking at the panties of other girls? I know lesbians who wouldn't touch PG with a 10 foot pole. Plus we see that stuff every morning when we get up and look in the mirror.


----------



## the_don

Well then if that is the consensus view, they should just delete that section. 

I agree with how you feel about the comments that get made there too.


----------



## OldEndicottHiway

the_don said:


> If you didnt know, they are trying to clean it up and make this forum more female friendly.
> 
> So what do you really think?



As a little girl, I rode bikes becuase it was in the blood to do so. So did my little boy neighbors. We all had fun; it was innocent. 

I hate PG.

Does that answer your question?


----------



## IndyFabCJ

One would have to open the forum to view the forum...just like the politics forum. If one does not like the forum, do not view the forum. Problem solved.

Forcing personal views and opinions on others doesn't seem healthy to me. Do I agree with some of the things said in there, no, I do not. But censoring or suppressing something I do not agree with seems fascist to me.


----------



## PlatyPius

IndyFabCJ said:


> One would have to open the forum to view the forum...just like the politics forum. If one does not like the forum, do not view the forum. Problem solved.
> 
> *Forcing personal views and opinions on others doesn't seem healthy to me.* Do I agree with some of the things said in there, no, I do not. But censoring or suppressing something I do not agree with seems fascist to me.


I agree. We should have a forum for people who shag goats. Maybe one for people who get intimate with vegetables, too. How about a forum for grisly pictures of dead/blown up/dismembered people?

The "free speech" argument might fly, IF it weren't for the fact that this is a BIKE board, not an "anything that gets your rocks off" board.

Any focused message board, like this one, needs forums that relate to the subject, plus one or *maybe* two off-topic forums. It doesn't need to include everything.


----------



## IndyFabCJ

PlatyPius said:


> I agree. We should have a forum for people who shag goats. Maybe one for people who get intimate with vegetables, too. How about a forum for grisly pictures of dead/blown up/dismembered people?
> 
> The "free speech" argument might fly, IF it weren't for the fact that this is a BIKE board, not an "anything that gets your rocks off" board.
> 
> Any focused message board, like this one, needs forums that relate to the subject, plus one or *maybe* two off-topic forums. It doesn't need to include everything.


My observation is that the relation to the forum has been that *most* of the pics are women on bikes or actual podium girls. Other pictures, well, no relation. Either way, I do not believe controlling others' based on my personal beliefs is healthy. Ultimately, we all have a choice to view the content and have to go through at least two clicks to get to anything that might be offensive. If you do not like seeing a woman in a bikini on a bike, avoid the forum. Same goes for if you do not wish to read about Shimano, professional racing, or the like.


----------



## PlatyPius

IndyFabCJ said:


> My observation is that the relation to the forum has been that *most* of the pics are women on bikes or actual podium girls. Other pictures, well, no relation. Either way, I do not believe controlling others' based on my personal beliefs is healthy. Ultimately, we all have a choice to view the content and have to go through at least two clicks to get to anything that might be offensive. If you do not like seeing a woman in a bikini on a bike, avoid the forum. Same goes for if you do not wish to read about Shimano, professional racing, or the like.


And since there is no genocide happening here, I shouldn't look at/worry about genocide happening elsewhere?

What about all of those Anti-Cyclist pages on Facebook and such that people get all bent out of shape about? Shouldn't they just ignore them and forget they exist?

Sometimes the mere existence of something is enough to anger people. As it should.


----------



## il sogno

IndyFabCJ said:


> My observation is that the relation to the forum has been that *most* of the pics are women on bikes or actual podium girls. Other pictures, well, no relation. Either way, I do not believe controlling others' based on my personal beliefs is healthy. Ultimately, we all have a choice to view the content and have to go through at least two clicks to get to anything that might be offensive. If you do not like seeing a woman in a bikini on a bike, avoid the forum. Same goes for if you do not wish to read about Shimano, professional racing, or the like.


Keep in mind that almost all of the R rated/NC17 soft core pron stuff has been deleted from PG. What you see in that forum ow is not an accurate reflection of what it was before HW cleaned it up.


----------



## SnowMongoose

Don't like it?
Don't click.

Some of the juvenile posts aren't ideal...
but this is an internet forum, with all that entails.
That being said, PG is VERY tame by the standards of most of the internet.
/waiting for angry responses, that's what he gets for being realistic


----------



## stover

snowmongoose said:


> don't like it?
> Don't click.


 +1 :d


----------



## TomH

the_don said:


> Because if it does, and Brushout's photos especially, then they should just delete the section.
> 
> But if it's fine with you, and maybe you also like to check out the cute girl de jour then they should leave it.
> If you didnt know, they are trying to clean it up and make this forum more female friendly.
> So what do you really think?


Werent you just complaining about them deleting brushouts photos? If you have such a problem with it, why dont you simply stop visiting that forum instead of making loaded threads to try to stir up trouble?


----------



## robdamanii

IndyFabCJ said:


> My observation is that the relation to the forum has been that *most* of the pics are women on bikes or actual podium girls. Other pictures, well, no relation. Either way, I do not believe controlling others' based on my personal beliefs is healthy. Ultimately, we all have a choice to view the content and have to go through at least two clicks to get to anything that might be offensive. If you do not like seeing a woman in a bikini on a bike, avoid the forum. Same goes for if you do not wish to read about Shimano, professional racing, or the like.


In respect to controlling others based upon personal beliefs: remember that this is not a democracy. This is a privately owned forum and the owners can do whatever they please, including enact any kind of censorship they see fit. 

If mostly naked porn models standing next to a wal mart special is something they font wish to allow, then that's their voice and they have every right to enforce it.


----------



## jorgy

SnowMongoose said:


> That being said, PG is VERY tame by the standards of most of the internet.
> /waiting for angry responses, that's what he gets for being realistic


Who cares if it's tame? This is a site devoted to road cycling. That's about as persuasive an argument as 'but Suzy's parents said she could go.'

Honestly, I don't understand the need or justification for a soft-core porn area on a cycling site, but that's just me. I'm frankly weirded out by all the men that protested against the content of the forum being reined in. Ick.

And, no, I don't go there although I checked it out when I first started visiting RBR.


----------



## the_don

TomH said:


> Werent you just complaining about them deleting brushouts photos? If you have such a problem with it, why dont you simply stop visiting that forum instead of making loaded threads to try to stir up trouble?


I haven't defended brushout, I just saw the mods deleting his posts and asked about it. 

I made this thread because I thought "hey, if they are claiming it is bad for the girls that come to the site, then let's actually find out if it is true."

After seeing what women are saying, then I agree. It doesn't belong on the site. And as I have also said, I had always thought it was strange they had that section, I have never seen it on any other site, although sometimes people post the occasional hot girl on bike photo.


----------



## Pablo

Hasn't this been debated several times in several fora and a decision was made? Why rehash this debate yet again?


----------



## Dorf411

IndyFabCJ said:


> One would have to open the forum to view the forum...just like the politics forum. If one does not like the forum, do not view the forum. Problem solved.


That is not necessarily true, I generally go to all "New Posts" but you cannot filter out the Politics or the PG forum and then you will still see the offending titles. I wish they had an advanced search that could be saved and you could go to it daily and it would show new posts of the forums that you desire to look at and filter the ones you don't like out.


----------



## OldEndicottHiway

the_don said:


> I haven't defended brushout, I just saw the mods deleting his posts and asked about it.
> 
> I made this thread because I thought "hey, if they are claiming it is bad for the girls that come to the site, then let's actually find out if it is true."
> 
> *After seeing what women are saying, then I agree. It doesn't belong on the site.* And as I have also said, I had always thought it was strange they had that section, I have never seen it on any other site, although sometimes people post the occasional hot girl on bike photo.




What PG became, is exactly what it was doomed to become... an example of some men's inability to not cross the line; to practice _self-moderation_, self control, class. 

Men have their inherent weaknesses, and we women have ours. It is our responsibility to eachother, not to capitalize on them. 

Like I said in an earlier post, women ride bikes because they like the sport in the same way that men do (and vice versa). For most of us from a racing background, it's always been a love of the sport. The fact that men happen to love cycling too, is beside the point. . 

Do we enjoy being "appreciated?" Sure, but not in the way you might think. As naiive as I am, I always thought the "appreciation" was more about a good-natured, innocent "tee-hee" between friends and comrades... rather than being reduced to a series a body parts and boinkabilty. 

PG is popular. The rest of the forum can be sleeping, and yet there are multiple _thousands_ of views in those threads...there must be a lot of closet yankers lurking about.

...if I ride with other people anymore, they are usually women, but not the sort of women (racers or otherwise) that pose for photos such as we sometimes see in PG.


----------



## OldEndicottHiway

Pablo said:


> Hasn't this been debated several times in several fora and a decision was made? Why rehash this debate yet again?



Because anytime there is change (in any of life's arenas), folks need to process. People process at different rates and in different ways.

It's OK.


----------



## cpecrivaine

+1 for deleting the debasing forum that is PG. Can we not all mutually respect one another? Respect does not mean objectifying a specific demographic because some of us do not have proper boundaries/outlets. But if those guys don't respect themselves enough to respect their fellow riders, then please let's have a new PG forum: Podium Guys--with actual muscles in their arms and chests. If they happen to be on bikes, well that's great. Let's all objectify the sex we're attracted to. 

:mad2:


----------



## OldEndicottHiway

cpecrivaine;3528421 [B said:


> But if those guys don't respect themselves enough to respect their fellow riders, then please let's have a new PG forum: Podium Guys--with actual muscles in their arms and chests. If they happen to be on bikes, well that's great. Let's all objectify the sex we're attracted to[/B].
> 
> :mad2:



A Podium Guy Forum, would die on day one. 

Most women just don't care all that much about skin depth when push comes to shove.

It's why there's a fairy tale called "Beauty and the Beast" and no fairy tale called, "Hunk and the Wretched Wench." 

I feel badly sometimes for men, as it's easy for them to tend to equate outer beauty being the same as what's on the inside. They get suckered into bad relationships that way.

I've asked more than a few men this question over the years: "if you see a lovely, sweet and pretty girl, do you (at first) assume she's pretty and sweet on the inside too?" 

First response is usually a deer in the headlights look, then the slow realization...


edit to add: time for me to get out of this thread and finish doing my nails


----------



## Gimme Shoulder

Gotta remember how the PG forum came to be to in the first place. Podium Girl type Pics and commentary were being posted more and more in the General forum. Users of the General forum became annoyed with all of the non-cycling specific trafic that was being created by those posts. So the PG forum was established to provide an outlet. From there it evolved to what it was with lots of nudity and Bevis and Butthead -esque commentary. If there were similar "Podium Guy" posts flooding the Women's Cycling forum, a Podium Guy forum would eventually be established.

The point is that they could eliminate the PG forum, but PG like posts will soon start to creep back into the General forum. So the policing will have to be done there.

Frankly, I'm good with no PG forum and VERY strict and diligently enforced content guidelines on all forums.


----------



## il sogno

IMO Fredke said it best when he posted that the problem with PG centers around the inequality of power relations between the sexes. The regulars in PG seem to want to perpetuate the illusion that women exist solely for them to objectify, to ogle at their leisure. As OEH just posted, sure us girls like to gussy ourselves up every now and then, but most of us don't do it to be leered at by strangers on the internet . 

There was a thread in PG that was posted when all this stuff was going down a couple of weeks ago. It had a picture of a prostitute watching a bike race. To me that picture was a slap down to the girls who were in PG posting and asserting themselves at that time. It was a reminder to us women of where some posters think our "place" is in a man's world. It was a sexist post and IMO, insulting to every woman on this forum. 

It looks like PG is here to stay. At least for now. The site owners and admins want it. At least for now. And thanks to HW it will not be the same forum it was two weeks ago.


----------



## cpecrivaine

il sogno said:


> It looks like PG is here to stay. At least for now. The site owners and admins want it. At least for now. And thanks to HW it will not be the same forum it was two weeks ago.


Well said to your entire post, and as for this portion it emphasizes an important point: the site owners are sending a message as to what they do not consider offensive. Apparently, a large number of posters/readers who do consider the forum an attack on the female identity do not matter. 

So where is the line?


----------



## Trek2.3

OldEndicottHiway said:


> A Podium Guy Forum, would die on day one.
> 
> Most women just don't care all that much about skin depth when push comes to shove.


*Thank God*.


----------



## il sogno

cpecrivaine said:


> Well said to your entire post, and as for this portion it emphasizes an important point: the site owners are sending a message as to what they do not consider offensive. Apparently, a large number of posters/readers who do consider the forum an attack on the female identity do not matter.
> 
> So where is the line?


The site owners want us to enforce a PG13 standard on RBR. If the material is such that it will make it onto Seinfeld or Friends then it should be okay to post.


----------



## OldEndicottHiway

il sogno said:


> IMO *Fredke said it best when he posted that the problem with PG centers around the inequality of power relations between the sexes. *The regulars in PG seem to want to perpetuate the illusion that women exist solely for them to objectify, to ogle at their leisure. As OEH just posted, sure us girls like to gussy ourselves up every now and then, but most of us don't do it to be leered at by strangers on the internet .
> 
> There was a thread in PG that was posted when all this stuff was going down a couple of weeks ago. It had a picture of a prostitute watching a bike race. To me that picture was a slap down to the girls who were in PG posting and asserting themselves at that time. It was a reminder to us women of where some posters think our "place" is in a man's world. It was a sexist post and IMO, insulting to every woman on this forum.
> 
> It looks like PG is here to stay. At least for now. The site owners and admins want it. At least for now. And thanks to HW it will not be the same forum it was two weeks ago.


Bingo. It's a sense of feeling, "not safe."

"Appreciation" and friendly, lighthearted banter is one thing. Leering is quite another. 

I've kept myself pretty sheltered over the years...and RBR was the first interactive/online experience I've ever had outside of e-mails with friends/family.

It's been a learning experience, for sure. 

I have to LOL at myself now, at thinking internet pr0n was something only a handful of bored, single folks participated in at 2AM when trying to get to sleep.


----------



## redondoaveb

il sogno said:


> The site owners want us to enforce a PG13 standard on RBR. If the material is such that it will make it onto Seinfeld or Friends then it should be okay to post.


How about "Married with Children". Just kidding, I know the answer to that one.


----------



## OldEndicottHiway

Trek2.3 said:


> *Thank God*.



I'd probably thank God more if he made humans more like avians. 

I mean, my goodness, have you seen how _pretty_ the boy-birds are? And the lengths he must go to for even the plainest of Jane, girl-birdies? 

The girl-birds can just slum around in their plain brown feathers (human equivalent of flanel pajamas) and the girl-birds are like, _yeah, you'll do. OK now go fetch me dinner while I sit here..._ 

...she writes while waiting for her topcoat of nail polish to dry...


----------



## Aindreas

OldEndicottHiway said:


> I'd probably thank God more if he made humans more like avians.
> 
> I mean, my goodness, have you seen how _pretty_ the boy-birds are? And the lengths he must go to for even the plainest of Jane, girl-birdies?
> 
> The girl-birds can just slum around in their plain brown feathers (human equivalent of flanel pajamas) and the girl-birds are like, _yeah, you'll do. OK now go fetch me dinner while I sit here..._
> 
> ...she writes while waiting for her topcoat of nail polish to dry...


Well said, Ma'am. Well said. :thumbsup:

//I think this PG/Brushout brouhaha is kinda doing good re: raising awareness of female/male power dynamics and helping some of us guys understand that leering and objectification of teh wimmins is not appreciated by teh wimmins themselves. Being surround by racy pix all day, everywhere, of other women in submissive poses = creepy and kinda scary.


----------



## TomH

I dont think its our fault (males in general) that some women choose to get half naked and pose for pictures. How it is objectification if the woman, by her own free will, poses? 

Theres a huge difference between a model, and the creepy guy in a trenchcoat hiding under the bleachers taking up-skirt shots like what was getting posted in PG. A lot of the stuff being posted beyond any level of consent and probably was objectification.. but not all of it. A girl wearing a racy outfit in public with half her cleavage hanging out is absolutely looking for the attention. I dont think we can be so surprised when she gets it.


----------



## Aindreas

TomH said:


> A girl wearing a racy outfit in public with half her cleavage hanging out is absolutely looking for the attention.


Right. Well, maybe. Here is where it seems to get complex. What if that woman wearing the racy outfit has grown up in a sexist society where she has learned that her main role--and her path to esteem from others--is to be an object of lust? Is that really free-will? I think that's just plain sad, and it often seems to be the case.

Also, when women dress sexy, it isn't always for the guys. Women can be just as competitive as we men are and perhaps a lady wearing something hot is her way of showing off for other women. Or maybe she's wearing a skimpy outfit because it is indeed hot out. Or wearing that low cut dress solely for herself, because she likes the way she looks in it.


----------



## TomH

I dont think we live in a society that pushes that ideal for every woman.. not even close. Theres plenty of highly successful women who dont use their bodies to get there. I think its unfortunate that anyone would feel they need to objectify themselves to get anywhere.. but theres no way thats the norm. 

Im not saying women should dress in any sort of way to avoid/gain attention. I dont think theres anything wrong with people making a personal choice.. I was more saying that theres a difference between trashy models, and guys taking candid pictures of girls. I know a bunch of suicide girls, and girls doing that type of photography. I have no problem with their decision to do so, but I disagree with any suggestion that they were somehow pressured or forced to do it by societal roles. In general, they're stronger women than the ones calling fowl over it.

Theres a time and place for that stuff.. and its readily available off-site. I dont see any sort of problem what so ever with tasteful pictures of attractive podium girls being posted in a very clearly labeled forum. I think its silly that some people are so upset about the forum being cleaned up of trashy material that they're calling for it to be closed all together.


----------



## kbwh

il sogno said:


> There was a thread in PG that was posted when all this stuff was going down a couple of weeks ago. It had a picture of a prostitute watching a bike race. To me that picture was a slap down to the girls who were in PG posting and asserting themselves at that time. It was a reminder to us women of where some posters think our "place" is in a man's world. It was a sexist post and IMO, insulting to every woman on this forum.


I did not find _the picture_ sexist. Did you?


----------



## Salsa_Lover

il sogno said:


> IMO Fredke said it best when he posted that the problem with PG centers around the inequality of power relations between the sexes. The regulars in PG seem to want to perpetuate the illusion that women exist solely for them to objectify, to ogle at their leisure. As OEH just posted, sure us girls like to gussy ourselves up every now and then, but most of us don't do it to be leered at by strangers on the internet .
> 
> There was a thread in PG that was posted when all this stuff was going down a couple of weeks ago. It had a picture of a prostitute watching a bike race. To me that picture was a slap down to the girls who were in PG posting and asserting themselves at that time. It was a reminder to us women of where some posters think our "place" is in a man's world. It was a sexist post and IMO, insulting to every woman on this forum.
> 
> It looks like PG is here to stay. At least for now. The site owners and admins want it. At least for now. And thanks to HW it will not be the same forum it was two weeks ago.


I was to be out of this debate but I have some things to say.

first, I have to reveal to you something that is maybe a hidden secret for all of you.
Men like women, like to oogle them to objectify them, to lure them etc. and that from a very primal way. It is simply human nature, we men have the urge to go after woman and that is at the same time a good and a bad thing. 

Sure women don't like to be harassed or objectified that way ( at least not from whoever, but they do like it when it comes from the man they favor ).

We men, keep it classy as gentlemen that we are with women in real life, but surely the primal instincts are strongly going on inside. Be sure ladies that this same man that is such a gentleman with you is having all kinds of lower mixed emotions inside at the same innocent moment they are talking to you and looking at your eyes. That is no mistery.

Now having revealed that secret to you  let's see how this impacts the forum.

Many internet forums, especially the ones frequented mainly by men, have this kind of "Women appreciation" threads or subforums were we men, can oogle at *pictures* of girls and be "Beavis and Butthead"-esque about them. Why ?, simply because of that secret I told you. We are men, and we like women and re read what I wrote. Those are *pictures* of girls, so we are not drooling or harassing or offending a real woman in person, we are doing it on a *confined *space were we can just lower down the composture we have when relating to women in person and can be childish and just be boys.

I could go on about how women have the also natural tendency to turn down most men that also lead me to have this steem release valve on the internet but I won't go there.

_*Bottom line, is , this behaviour is simply natural for men. It is indeed annoying for women when it comes from an undesired man, so this kind of forums or threads are a confined space to be a steem release valve where boys can be boys.*_

I also agree that posting skanks on fixies or pics from porn sites is out of the line.  But I don't see anything wrong on posting pictures of pretty and sexy girls on bikes and being beavis and butthead-esque about it.

You as a private forum have all your right to repress it or eliminate it if you wish.

But I am kinda perplex about the double standard. 

Brushout gets devilised and his last threads which were not offensive are deleted and he is banned, but on the other hand the very offensive thread you mentioned about the dutch ***** is still up and the offending poster was never questioned.


http://forums.roadbikereview.com/podium-girls/eneco-tour-258284.html


----------



## slamy

Honestly, a lot of women dress up and make themselves looks nice for themselves: how it makes them feel about themselves. They also do it in a competitive way for other women, to look better then them. I know when my wife gets dolled up she is not doing it for me per say, but about herself and her friends. Just saying....


----------



## NJBiker72

Aindreas said:


> Well said, Ma'am. Well said. :thumbsup:
> 
> //I think this PG/Brushout brouhaha is kinda doing good re: raising awareness of female/male power dynamics and helping some of us guys understand that leering and objectification of teh wimmins is not appreciated by teh wimmins themselves. Being surround by racy pix all day, everywhere, of other women in submissive poses = creepy and kinda scary.


This from someone with a topless pic on his posts.


----------



## IndyFabCJ

PlatyPius said:


> And since there is no genocide happening here, I shouldn't look at/worry about genocide happening elsewhere?
> 
> What about all of those Anti-Cyclist pages on Facebook and such that people get all bent out of shape about? Shouldn't they just ignore them and forget they exist?
> 
> Sometimes the mere existence of something is enough to anger people. As it should.


I accept what I cannot control. I let go of the anger created by the existence of things. Genocide is not a small thing to sweat. Girls in bikinis on bikes is small stuff.


----------



## physasst

*This is ridiculous......*



Salsa_Lover said:


> I was to be out of this debate but I have some things to say.
> 
> first, I have to reveal to you something that is maybe a hidden secret for all of you.
> Men like women, like to oogle them to objectify them, to lure them etc. and that from a very primal way. It is simply human nature, we men have the urge to go after woman and that is at the same time a good and a bad thing.
> 
> Sure women don't like to be harassed or objectified that way ( at least not from whoever, but they do like it when it comes from the man they favor ).
> 
> We men, keep it classy as gentlemen that we are with women in real life, but surely the primal instincts are strongly going on inside. Be sure ladies that this same man that is such a gentleman with you is having all kinds of lower mixed emotions inside at the same innocent moment they are talking to you and looking at your eyes. That is no mistery.
> 
> Now having revealed that secret to you  let's see how this impacts the forum.
> 
> Many internet forums, especially the ones frequented mainly by men, have this kind of "Women appreciation" threads or subforums were we men, can oogle at *pictures* of girls and be "Beavis and Butthead"-esque about them. Why ?, simply because of that secret I told you. We are men, and we like women and re read what I wrote. Those are *pictures* of girls, so we are not drooling or harassing or offending a real woman in person, we are doing it on a *confined *space were we can just lower down the composture we have when relating to women in person and can be childish and just be boys.
> 
> I could go on about how women have the also natural tendency to turn down most men that also lead me to have this steem release valve on the internet but I won't go there.
> 
> _*Bottom line, is , this behaviour is simply natural for men. It is indeed annoying for women when it comes from an undesired man, so this kind of forums or threads are a confined space to be a steem release valve where boys can be boys.*_
> 
> I also agree that posting skanks on fixies or pics from porn sites is out of the line. But I don't see anything wrong on posting pictures of pretty and sexy girls on bikes and being beavis and butthead-esque about it.
> 
> You as a private forum have all your right to repress it or eliminate it if you wish.
> 
> But I am kinda perplex about the double standard.
> 
> Brushout gets devilised and his last threads which were not offensive are deleted and he is banned, but on the other hand the very offensive thread you mentioned about the dutch ***** is still up and the offending poster was never questioned.
> 
> 
> http://forums.roadbikereview.com/podium-girls/eneco-tour-258284.html


Not all men think like that......

Personally I would much rather see a beautiful woman in an evening gown...

Seeing a woman with a sprayed on cycling kit is not sexy...it's trashy. Not every man lives to objectify women, and not every man is turned down by women all the time in their personal life.....

I don't look at women as objects, but as wonderful partners, friends, colleagues, and the exemplification of the better attributes of humanity.....

Of course, as you say, you see it differently....:thumbsup:


----------



## IndyFabCJ

Dorf411 said:


> That is not necessarily true, I generally go to all "New Posts" but you cannot filter out the Politics or the PG forum and then you will still see the offending titles. I wish they had an advanced search that could be saved and you could go to it daily and it would show new posts of the forums that you desire to look at and filter the ones you don't like out.


Is it difficult to change the viewing style?


----------



## Aindreas

NJBiker72 said:


> This from someone with a topless pic on his posts.


Patrick Swayze galloping on a white stallion, although he is shirtless, is a beacon of awesomeness to RBR and the entire world. Please forgive my double-standarding in this specific, but awesome, instance.

Thx. :thumbsup:


----------



## JayTee

I think the mere existence of such a subforum makes RBR seems more like a "boys club" than it really is and in that regard, projects the wrong image for potential new participants, maybe even causing some to look elsewhere for cycling related internet activity. I think there's NO reason to keep it.

But since the compromise appears to be "leave it here but clean it up" I certainly think that's an improvement.


----------



## mtrider05

I like how this turned into a men are pigs thread.


----------



## il sogno

TomH said:


> I dont think its our fault (males in general) that some women choose to get half naked and pose for pictures. How it is objectification if the woman, by her own free will, poses?
> 
> Theres a huge difference between a model, and the creepy guy in a trenchcoat hiding under the bleachers taking up-skirt shots like what was getting posted in PG. A lot of the stuff being posted beyond any level of consent and probably was objectification.. but not all of it. A girl wearing a racy outfit in public with half her cleavage hanging out is absolutely looking for the attention. I dont think we can be so surprised when she gets it.


I get it. If we unzip our jersey on a hot day we're "asking for it.":idea:


----------



## PlatyPius

il sogno said:


> I get it. If we unzip our jersey on a hot day we're "asking for it.":idea:


No.... but men's eyes DO just naturally turn toward such things with no conscious direction from our brain.... The trick is to follow that inadvertent look with a look of embarrassment. :idea:


----------



## QED

The idea that "this behavior is simply natural for men" is debasing to men. It is as wrong to put all men in a category as it is to have a forum devoted to half-naked women. As to why we keep rehashing it, because things won't ever change unless they get put out in the open when people discuss them. As far as turning the other way and not clicking on it or saying that "it has always been that way between men and women...well that is the same attitude that slavery in place when people knew it was wrong. Or that didn't give women equal rights until the 20th century. Many of the arguments for keeping the PG forum were the same used to keep the status quo when no one wants to face the underlying issues. The only way to affect change is to talk about things. 

Here is an idea: Instead of doing an alternate mens forum, let's just make the forum Podium People and we can put pictures of both. If it is truely equal, and not just a forum for belittling women, then no one should mind if we mix it up with pictures of guys in spandex with boners. Or guys with butt cracks showing as they ride. We can throw an occasional fat guy in there to make fun of him like they do in PG. Or the ugly guy. Or the short guy. And maybe as guys start reading offensive comments about their gender, they won't think it is so funny or okay.


----------



## OldEndicottHiway

QED said:


> Here is an idea: Instead of doing an alternate mens forum, let's just make the forum Podium People and we can put pictures of both. If it is truely equal, and not just a forum for belittling women, then no one should mind if we mix it up with pictures of guys in spandex with boners. Or guys with butt cracks showing as they ride. We can throw an occasional fat guy in there to make fun of him like they do in PG. Or the ugly guy. Or the short guy. And maybe as guys start reading offensive comments about their gender, they won't think it is so funny or okay.



Wouldn't fly.

Women would get bored and annoyed with such nonsense. I'd like to think we wouldn't find constant titilation in picking on people who were not blessed with good looks. 

I think what many men don't fully understand is that from a very early age, women are "taught" by culture that somehow our looks are the _first_ determinant of value. 

For instance, I remember very well, first day of 7th grade. New school, new faces, and getting thrown in with the big kids. At lunchtime, about 15-20 9th grade boys formed a gauntlet line leading into the cafeteria. As the girls walked through, the boys would shout out numbers on a scale of 1-10, making comments about specific attributes (or lack thereof). A few girls were in tears by the time they made it into the cafeteria. 

I remember one boy in particular spent the year shouting at me, "Flat as a board! Carpenter's dream. No one's ever going to want you!" anytime he saw me in the hallways.

To boys, it was all "fun and games" and no harm intended, but to the girls it had a very different meaning. The pretty girls felt better about themselves...for the wrong reasons, and the unattractive girls felt worse about themselves, for the wrong reasons.

Someone here mentioned PG is a great outlet to let men blow off steam, and "let boys be boys." 

Ummmm, grow up?


----------



## Aindreas

OldEndicottHiway said:


> Wouldn't fly.
> 
> Women would get bored and annoyed with such nonsense. I'd like to think we wouldn't find constant titilation in picking on people who were not blessed with good looks.
> 
> I think what many men don't fully understand is that from a very early age, women are "taught" by culture that somehow our looks are the _first_ determinant of value.
> 
> For instance, I remember very well, first day of 7th grade. New school, new faces, and getting thrown in with the big kids. At lunchtime, about 15-20 9th grade boys formed a gauntlet line leading into the cafeteria. As the girls walked through, the boys would shout out numbers on a scale of 1-10, making comments about specific attributes (or lack thereof). A few girls were in tears by the time they made it into the cafeteria.
> 
> I remember one boy in particular spent the year shouting at me, "Flat as a board! Carpenter's dream. No one's ever going to want you!" anytime he saw me in the hallways.
> 
> To boys, it was all "fun and games" and no harm intended, but to the girls it had a very different meaning. The pretty girls felt better about themselves...for the wrong reasons, and the unattractive girls felt worse about themselves, for the wrong reasons.
> 
> Someone here mentioned PG is a great outlet to let men blow off steam, and "let boys be boys."
> 
> Ummmm, grow up?


+eleventy

Maybe we should turn PG into a subforum where we post about how bad-a22 and awesome our favorite lady racers are?


----------



## OldEndicottHiway

Aindreas said:


> +eleventy
> 
> Maybe we should turn PG into a subforum where we post about how bad-a22 and awesome our favorite lady racers are?



That already exists. It's called the Pro Cycling forum. 

Every once in a while a thread about Jeannie Longo makes it in there.


----------



## TomH

il sogno said:


> I get it. If we unzip our jersey on a hot day we're "asking for it.":idea:


I didnt say that..

Guys are going to look. I dont necessarily think thats some awful discriminating act in itself. Theres a respectful boundry line between looking, and taking unwanted pictures and posting them on the internet though. Its a distinction worth making. Trying to group the guys admiring a pretty girl with a bunch of candid camera creepers isnt fair.


----------



## il sogno

TomH said:


> I didnt say that..
> 
> Guys are going to look. I dont necessarily think thats some awful discriminating act in itself. Theres a respectful boundry line between looking, and taking unwanted pictures and posting them on the internet though. Its a distinction worth making. Trying to group the guys admiring a pretty girl with a bunch of candid camera creepers isnt fair.


The problem with Podium Girls is that it is not an "admiring" place. At least not in the polite sense.


----------



## JAC526

There is absolutely nothing wrong with enjoying a beautiful person....

However, some of the pictures were trash and the comments were even worse.

Salsa is right, even though he did a terrible job of getting his point across. Men like to look at women.

Its primal....however, that doesn't mean it needs to be creepy or misogynistic.

OTOH women need to lighten up a bit about the whole thing.

My personal opinion is that PG doesn't really need to be on this forum.


----------



## il sogno

Salsa_Lover said:


> I was to be out of this debate but I have some things to say.
> 
> first, I have to reveal to you something that is maybe a hidden secret for all of you.
> Men like women, like to oogle them to objectify them, to lure them etc. and that from a very primal way. It is simply human nature, we men have the urge to go after woman and that is at the same time a good and a bad thing.
> 
> Sure women don't like to be harassed or objectified that way ( at least not from whoever, but they do like it when it comes from the man they favor ).
> 
> We men, keep it classy as gentlemen that we are with women in real life, but surely the primal instincts are strongly going on inside. Be sure ladies that this same man that is such a gentleman with you is having all kinds of lower mixed emotions inside at the same innocent moment they are talking to you and looking at your eyes. That is no mistery.
> 
> Now having revealed that secret to you  let's see how this impacts the forum.


Oh dear.... you really think this is news to us? lolol :lol:




Salsa_Lover said:


> Many internet forums, especially the ones frequented mainly by men, have this kind of "Women appreciation" threads or subforums were we men, can oogle at *pictures* of girls and be "Beavis and Butthead"-esque about them. Why ?, simply because of that secret I told you. We are men, and we like women and re read what I wrote. Those are *pictures* of girls, so we are not drooling or harassing or offending a real woman in person, we are doing it on a *confined *space were we can just lower down the composture we have when relating to women in person and can be childish and just be boys.
> 
> I could go on about how women have the also natural tendency to turn down most men that also lead me to have this steem release valve on the internet but I won't go there.
> 
> _*Bottom line, is , this behaviour is simply natural for men. It is indeed annoying for women when it comes from an undesired man, so this kind of forums or threads are a confined space to be a steem release valve where boys can be boys.*_
> 
> I also agree that posting skanks on fixies or pics from porn sites is out of the line. But I don't see anything wrong on posting pictures of pretty and sexy girls on bikes and being beavis and butthead-esque about it.
> 
> You as a private forum have all your right to repress it or eliminate it if you wish.


PG is NOT a confined space. It is there for all to see. Women who visit this site expect that a subforum called "Podium Girls" to be about women's race results. That's what I thought I was going to get when I first clicked on PG. 

This is a privately owned forum. _Every _poster is expected to post in a civil manner. We see no reason why the men who post in PG should be given special dispensation. They are expected to post (in your words) like gentlemen. 

:thumbsup:


----------



## Pablo

Oh if only there were somewhere else on the interwebs where women could be oggled ...


----------



## PlatyPius

Pablo said:


> Oh if only there were somewhere else on the interwebs where women could be oggled ...


LOL! Seriously... should we have a forum for visa/immigration info too? How about macramé? Corgis?


----------



## OldEndicottHiway

il sogno said:


> Oh dear.... you really think this is news to us? lolol :lol:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> PG is NOT a confined space. It is there for all to see. Women who visit this site expect that a subforum called "Podium Girls" to be about women's race results. That's what I thought I was going to get when I first clicked on PG.
> 
> This is a privately owned forum. _Every _poster is expected to post in a civil manner. *We see no reason why the men who post in PG should be given special dispensation. They are expected to post (in your words) like gentlemen.*
> 
> :thumbsup:



PG , is not a place that necessarily draws "gentlemen." It's entropic. 

To the poster who said, "women need to lighten up." I hear you. We get sensitive and sometimes overly-so... but many times for good reason. 

Personally, I _am_ lighthearted and don't mind (mild) silly, locker room towel-snapping between friends. 

My dad once said he'd almost feel a certain "hatred" (I interpreted that as anger and frustration) toward women that constantly and purposefully paraded and flaunted around, simply because it wasn't fair to a man's make-up to do so, and then expect him to always think and act honorably. And he was an intensely honorable man, so that's saying something. 

Again, women have their responsibility to "draw the line" as well, in their own behavior. So I have little pity for some of these gals posing in full-on near-nekkid CFM pics, or partake in porno films/pics. Those women make it difficult for the rest of us. Like Songo said...just because we've dropped a jersey zipper when it hits 90F outside, doesn't mean we're hot... for you.

I do think as well, that some folks get so embroiled in and desensitized to the porno world that they think this behavior is the norm, and that those who object to it are outside of the norm.... 

(...kind of like when we rabid cyclists scratch our heads in wonder when we come across people who have never heard of the TdF, or think bicycles should be ridden on the sidewalk).

And thus, when people "sqwuak" about something as comparatively soft core and tame as the PG forum, then they tend to think those people _really_ have a problem. 

I guess us gals don't get why every last damned thing in life must be equated with sex (the whole "k0d3" thing in the Lounge became ridiculous and tiresome). Can't there be one place in our life's endeavors where there isn't some "subforum" of humanity reducing it to a penis and a vagina? Reminds me of the guy in England I think it was, not too long ago that was arrested when he was caught trying to make love to his bike. Jeez. 

Anyway, the whole bruhaha here has been an interesting read and study. I'd like to see RBR take the high road and get rid of PG

Cheers all.


----------



## Oxtox

disclaimer: I have prurient interests...I like to look at attractive women in provocative poses.

however, if RBR deletes the PG forum, it will produce zero reaction from me. 

it's a distraction on this site and only serves to annoy/disturb/irritate some members and take up moderator time that could be spent elsewhere.

but, it produces a large number of site hits, sooo....it'll probably stay.

it's about bidness...plain and simple.


----------



## OldEndicottHiway

Pablo said:


> Oh if only there were somewhere else on the interwebs where women could be oggled ...



I heart you for that. :thumbsup:


Btw..didn't you just welcome your first kiddo into the world? Congrats!


----------



## Pablo

PlatyPius said:


> Corgis?


When posts about corgis dehumanize and undermine the worth of other human beings, I will argue that those threads be put to sleep as well.


----------



## Salsa_Lover

il sogno said:


> Oh dear.... you really think this is news to us? lolol :lol:
> 
> :thumbsup:


it was sarcasm , I know you all know, I find even cute that you pretend not to know.... but I find hypocritical that some denie they know for political correctness on a forum.. that's all


----------



## jorgy

OldEndicottHiway said:


> My dad once said he'd almost feel a certain "hatred" (I interpreted that as anger and frustration) toward women that constantly and purposefully paraded and flaunted around, simply because it wasn't fair to a man's make-up to do so, and then expect him to always think and act honorably. And he was an intensely honorable man, so that's saying something.


Ya know, as a woman I get pretty irritated at other women who 'let it all hang out' or act like bimbos in the work environment to get what they want from their male superiors. I don't play that way, and despise women who do. Luckily, those type of women are rare in my work environment.


----------



## PlatyPius

jorgy said:


> Ya know, as a woman I get pretty irritated at other women who 'let it all hang out' or act like bimbos in the work environment to get what they want from their male superiors. I don't play that way, and despise women who do. Luckily, those type of women are rare in my work environment.


And similarly, I can't stand men who stand around talking about football and say "I'd hit that!" about the women walking by. I mean those who seriously say it; not the lounge moreons who say it in jest. Some guys you just expect to see with a club in one hand and a woman being dragged by the hair in the other.


----------



## OldEndicottHiway

jorgy said:


> Ya know, as a woman I get pretty irritated at other women who 'let it all hang out' or act like bimbos in the work environment to get what they want from their male superiors. I don't play that way, and despise women who do. *Luckily, those type of women are rare in my work environment*.


Not in mine. And I'm in the medical profession. You wouldn't believe the number of female coworkers than run around in the tightest-fitting scrubs they can paint themselves into. 

Me I tend to dress in the baggiest I can can find without looking like a clown. My work attire says, "I'm here to do my job; don't even think one second otherwise."

Funny (true) side story: 

This afternoon I took my good 'ol horse for a bareback ride up the dirt road around the corner from me. Was totally enjoying my peaceful "escape" with my little trusty dog trotting alongside. 

I turn around to go home, and find one of the valley's residents that I see maybe once a year in passing only, had dumped his motorcycle on the dirt road. His lip was cut up pretty good, and couldn't get his motorcycle to start. 

He's a "professional, educated" guy. So, after putting my horse away, I give him a ride home.

*Him:* so, you're still single. Why?

*Me*: I haven't met anyone I'm interested in and that's all I'm saying on the subject.

*Him*: I've got news for you, the pickins are slim out there

*Me*: Duh (getting suckered into a doomed conversation). And? So What? I'm better off by myself than "settling." I have a lot to offer in terms of the kind of person I am, why should I settle for anything less than the kind of person I want, in return? 

*Him*: so you think you're too good for a lot of guys?

*Me*: Pretty much 

*Him*: (_totally serio_us) Let me tell you, if I had you for one night, you'd never want anyone else. I swear, I'd have you wrapped around my little fnger.

*Me*: (thinking) Get the **** out of my car (all the while laughing so hard I literally had tears coming out of my eyes). 

He didn't think me bursting into near uncontrollable laughter was that funny. 



It got me thinking that we gals defend ourselves against this crap in real life day by day, when we're just minding our own business, or even just trying to help someone out. It kind of stinks to come into a _cycling forum _and see there's a sub forum dedicted to it.


----------



## cinelliguy

My vote, PG's section is stupid, not needed. Take it down.


----------



## jorgy

Ugh. Yea, sorry dude, I'll pass on finding out what you said is true (and let's face it if you have a brain you know it ain't true). I wonder if he ever scores with women who think "eh, I'll see if this guy is really packing the heat he says he is." Doubt it.

I remember needed a jump once because my car didn't make a beeping noise when I left my lights on. Best Buy parking lot on a Saturday morning. Me: unshowered with my hair up in a pony tail. Probably wearing jeans and baggy sweatshirt. I had the cables, hooked everything up to the car of the man that offered to help. And then he starts hitting on me. Ugh.

So for all the men that say they lear because we just put it out there, our own experiences say there are plenty of men who do it day in, day out no matter what we are doing or look like. Thankfully, I know not all men behave this way.



OldEndicottHiway said:


> Not in mine. And I'm in the medical profession. You wouldn't believe the number of female coworkers than run around in the tightest-fitting scrubs they can paint themselves into.
> 
> Me I tend to dress in the baggiest I can can find without looking like a clown. My work attire says, "I'm here to do my job; don't even think one second otherwise."
> 
> Funny (true) side story:
> 
> This afternoon I took my good 'ol horse for a bareback ride up the dirt road around the corner from me. Was totally enjoying my peaceful "escape" with my little trusty dog trotting alongside.
> 
> I turn around to go home, and find one of the valley's residents that I see maybe once a year in passing only, had dumped his motorcycle on the dirt road. His lip was cut up pretty good, and couldn't get his motorcycle to start.
> 
> He's a "professional, educated" guy. So, after putting my horse away, I give him a ride home.
> 
> *Him:* so, you're still single. Why?
> 
> *Me*: I haven't met anyone I'm interested in and that's all I'm saying on the subject.
> 
> *Him*: I've got news for you, the pickins are slim out there
> 
> *Me*: Duh (getting suckered into a doomed conversation). And? So What? I'm better off by myself than "settling." I have a lot to offer in terms of the kind of person I am, why should I settle for anything less than the kind of person I want, in return?
> 
> *Him*: so you think you're too good for a lot of guys?
> 
> *Me*: Pretty much
> 
> *Him*: (_totally serio_us) Let me tell you, if I had you for one night, you'd never want anyone else. I swear, I'd have you wrapped around my little fnger.
> 
> *Me*: (thinking) Get the **** out of my car (all the while laughing so hard I literally had tears coming out of my eyes).
> 
> He didn't think me bursting into near uncontrollable laughter was that funny.
> 
> 
> 
> It got me thinking that we gals defend ourselves against this crap in real life day by day, when we're just minding our own business, or even just trying to help someone out. It kind of stinks to come into a _cycling forum _and see there's a sub forum dedicted to it.


----------



## jorgy

PlatyPius said:


> And similarly, I can't stand men who stand around talking about football and say "I'd hit that!" about the women walking by. I mean those who seriously say it; not the lounge moreons who say it in jest. Some guys you just expect to see with a club in one hand and a woman being dragged by the hair in the other.


Funny, I can't stand those type of men, either!

They probably think you're down with that type of behavior because you possess a Y chromosome like them.


----------



## OldEndicottHiway

jorgy said:


> Ugh. Yea, sorry dude, I'll pass on finding out what you said is true (and let's face it if you have a brain you know it ain't true). I wonder if he ever scores with women who think "eh, I'll see if this guy is really packing the heat he says he is." Doubt it.
> 
> I remember needed a jump once because my car didn't make a beeping noise when I left my lights on. Best Buy parking lot on a Saturday morning. Me: unshowered with my hair up in a pony tail. Probably wearing jeans and baggy sweatshirt. I had the cables, hooked everything up to the car of the man that offered to help. And then he starts hitting on me. Ugh.
> 
> *So for all the men that say they lear because we just put it out there, our own experiences say there are plenty of men who do it day in, day out no matter what we are doing or look like. Thankfully, I know not all men behave this way*.




Eeeexactly.


----------



## MiniVanMan

OldEndicottHiway said:


> Wouldn't fly.
> 
> Women would get bored and annoyed with such nonsense. I'd like to think we wouldn't find constant titilation in picking on people who were not blessed with good looks.
> 
> I think what many men don't fully understand is that from a very early age, women are "taught" by culture that somehow our looks are the _first_ determinant of value.
> 
> For instance, I remember very well, first day of 7th grade. New school, new faces, and getting thrown in with the big kids. At lunchtime, about 15-20 9th grade boys formed a gauntlet line leading into the cafeteria. As the girls walked through, the boys would shout out numbers on a scale of 1-10, making comments about specific attributes (or lack thereof). A few girls were in tears by the time they made it into the cafeteria.
> 
> I remember one boy in particular spent the year shouting at me, "Flat as a board! Carpenter's dream. No one's ever going to want you!" anytime he saw me in the hallways.
> 
> To boys, it was all "fun and games" and no harm intended, but to the girls it had a very different meaning. The pretty girls felt better about themselves...for the wrong reasons, and the unattractive girls felt worse about themselves, for the wrong reasons.
> 
> Someone here mentioned PG is a great outlet to let men blow off steam, and "let boys be boys."
> 
> Ummmm, grow up?


This is an interesting story because the opposite is just as true. Girls were just as mean to boys when I was growing up. The weapons used are different. Girls learn to manipulate boys at a very young age. 

I agree with the societal objectification of women. I have a 2 year old daughter, and I have NO IDEA how I'm going to protect her, and teach her how to be a strong, independent woman when everything around us assaults us with imagery of sexuality. 

Women haven't made it any better for themselves because they use their sexuality to derive their power over men. Honestly, that is the natural order of things. Men and women breed. Women have to naturally be very selective in who they breed with, and thus work very hard to attract suitable mates. The better they look, the more potential mates they can choose from. The problem throughout history is getting rid of the ones the female didn't pick. 

Men on the other hand need to be able to beat their chests and show other men how successful they are in mating, and that success is based on quality, not quantity. So, men naturally hone their preferences for a mate. 

Now, that's not to say that there aren't people that recognize base instinct as base instinct and can behave in a way that suggests they're not ruled by their baser instincts. But those instincts are still there. 

Don't know if I have an actual opinion on the PG subforum. I've browsed through it, and I've seen some questionable content. I've also seen some pretty well done photography.


----------



## Aindreas

PlatyPius said:


> And similarly, I can't stand men who stand around talking about football and say "I'd hit that!" about the women walking by. I mean those who seriously say it; not the lounge moreons who say it in jest. Some guys you just expect to see with a club in one hand and a woman being dragged by the hair in the other.


^ this.

One of my tactics when I'm stuck in one of these circles of jerks is to point at a guy--sometimes the dude who said "I'd hit that" -- and say in my most over-the-top, fairy-boy voice "Well I'd hit _*that*_, sweetie." This is usually very effective at ending the leer-fest.


----------



## physasst

OldEndicottHiway said:


> Not in mine. And I'm in the medical profession. You wouldn't believe the number of female coworkers than run around in the tightest-fitting scrubs they can paint themselves into.
> 
> Me I tend to dress in the baggiest I can can find without looking like a clown. My work attire says, "I'm here to do my job; don't even think one second otherwise."
> 
> Funny (true) side story:
> 
> This afternoon I took my good 'ol horse for a bareback ride up the dirt road around the corner from me. Was totally enjoying my peaceful "escape" with my little trusty dog trotting alongside.
> 
> I turn around to go home, and find one of the valley's residents that I see maybe once a year in passing only, had dumped his motorcycle on the dirt road. His lip was cut up pretty good, and couldn't get his motorcycle to start.
> 
> He's a "professional, educated" guy. So, after putting my horse away, I give him a ride home.
> 
> *Him:* so, you're still single. Why?
> 
> *Me*: I haven't met anyone I'm interested in and that's all I'm saying on the subject.
> 
> *Him*: I've got news for you, the pickins are slim out there
> 
> *Me*: Duh (getting suckered into a doomed conversation). And? So What? I'm better off by myself than "settling." I have a lot to offer in terms of the kind of person I am, why should I settle for anything less than the kind of person I want, in return?
> 
> *Him*: so you think you're too good for a lot of guys?
> 
> *Me*: Pretty much
> 
> *Him*: (_totally serio_us) Let me tell you, if I had you for one night, you'd never want anyone else. I swear, I'd have you wrapped around my little fnger.
> 
> *Me*: (thinking) Get the **** out of my car (all the while laughing so hard I literally had tears coming out of my eyes).
> 
> He didn't think me bursting into near uncontrollable laughter was that funny.
> 
> 
> 
> It got me thinking that we gals defend ourselves against this crap in real life day by day, when we're just minding our own business, or even just trying to help someone out. It kind of stinks to come into a _cycling forum _and see there's a sub forum dedicted to it.



That's hysterical.....what an idiot....

It's kind of funny to me I guess. My father died when I was six, and I was raised by my mom. 

I've always treated women with respect, kindness, and most importantly as a good friend. 

Guess what? Before I got married, my date card was rarely ever open. I dated a lot of women, had relationships with several, and never had any problems "picking up" (I hate that term) women. Heck, several of my ex lovers I am still friends with today. We don't talk much out of respect for my wife, but there is no animosity there. 

I guess I don't understand the need to objectify women. Maybe I don't get it.....but then again.....Maybe I do:thumbsup:


----------



## OldEndicottHiway

physasst said:


> *That's hysterical.....what an idiot....*
> It's kind of funny to me I guess. My father died when I was six, and I was raised by my mom.
> 
> I've always treated women with respect, kindness, and most importantly as a good friend.
> 
> Guess what? Before I got married, my date card was rarely ever open. I dated a lot of women, had relationships with several, and never had any problems "picking up" (I hate that term) women. Heck, several of my ex lovers I am still friends with today. We don't talk much out of respect for my wife, but there is no animosity there.
> 
> I guess I don't understand the need to objectify women. Maybe I don't get it.....but then again.....Maybe I do:thumbsup:



I know, right? It _was_ hysterical! He was so completely serious.

I live in an area with a colorful cast of characters for sure. 

Earlier this summer I had a friend's family over for a visit (from Seattle). We'd pulled into the little local greasy spoon with their teenage daughters in tow, and one of our resident scruffy old toothless drunks came trotting out. "Hey L, I see you have company. Why don't y'all head on up to my place at about 7? I have a beaver that puts on a show every night."

That actually was totally cute, because he had no idea how funny what he'd just said was.

My friend has been giving me [email protected] about my neighbors and their beaver-shows ever since. 


And I agree, treat a lady as a person, and she'll be more inclined to add herself to your dance card.


----------



## Salsa_Lover

physasst said:


> I was raised by my mom.


That explains it.


----------



## Crithater

PlatyPius said:


> Is that you Mr.Inappropriate?



Well at least I can say I'm a Mister!.....


----------



## robdamanii

Crithater said:


> Well at least I can say I'm a Mister!.....


Words fail me in describing the magnitude of your fail...


----------



## OldEndicottHiway

Crithater said:


> [B said:
> 
> 
> 
> Just turn in your Man Card on your way out[/B].
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> This thread delivers.
> 
> 
> ...and should probably also be moved to PG, as it has become a little contentious and frightening for the nice, normal ladies that visit Women's Specific forum looking for help.
Click to expand...


----------



## Gimme Shoulder

Crithater said:


> I've been reading the men are pigs tripe and I must say I'm offended more by the men than the women. *1) *The politically correct answer of "I have nothing but the deepest respect for their minds" is just plain bullshit. *2) *If il sogno showed up at a group ride and she had a great a$$ or a great rack you would be undressing her with your eyes just like me. *3) *So if we want a place of our own, then just leave PG forum alone. Most of you know what is about, so don't go there if you don't like it. *4) *il Sogno if you have any of the above attributes I menitioned above please post in the PG Forum.


1) Lust, common interest, admiration, and intellectual discourse will coexist. Lust does not have to be the dominant force.

1) & 2) You may not be able to keep the bird from flying over your head, but you can certainly keep if from nesting in your hair.

1) & 2) & 3) The new best argument yet to shut the PG forum down. (Not that I necessarily care if it is, or think it should be. (There are one or two logical reasons why it should stay). Just that your argument "for" may have the exact oposite affect).

4) Really??


----------



## PlatyPius

OldEndicottHiway said:


> This thread delivers.
> 
> 
> ...and should probably also be moved to PG, as it has become a little contentious and frightening for the nice, normal ladies that visit Women's Specific forum looking for help.


So you're a man and I'm not. Interesting....


----------



## OldEndicottHiway

PlatyPius said:


> So you're a man and I'm not. Interesting....


 


This whole bruhaha has been an interesting study on differing views.

I have to say I'm heartened by the number of fellers I've seen step up to the plate and be...men.


----------



## Crithater

OldEndicottHiway said:


> This whole bruhaha has been an interesting study on differing views.
> 
> I have to say I'm heartened by the number of fellers I've seen step up to the plate and be...men.



Thanks...I think


----------



## OldEndicottHiway

robdamanii said:


> This.
> 
> I can't WAIT for Songo to read this...



Sogs is a classy and level-headed woman. She won't take the bait.


----------



## robdamanii

Crithater said:


> Thanks...I think


Psst...not you.


----------



## robdamanii

OldEndicottHiway said:


> Sogs is a classy and level-headed woman. She won't take the bait.


Oh I know it. I'm hoping for a simple out and out vacation issuance.


----------



## Crithater

robdamanii said:


> Oh I know it. I'm hoping for a simple out and out vacation issuance.


Why is that....Because you are loosing the argument and you don't want any disagreement. Come on, if anything you are improving your typing skills.....see a bright side to everything....


----------



## Crithater

robdamanii said:


> Psst...not you.


Come on Rob....you know she wasn't talking to you.....:aureola:


----------



## Gimme Shoulder

From Crithater to To OEH: "Just turn in your Man Card on your way out".

Now that is hilarious...:lol:

Get a clue


----------



## Crithater

female members (and moderator no less) in order to get your rocks off.

Sorry...you are getting weaker in your replys.....don't get my rocks off there, just defending against censorship. that's what you and others want. If you don't like PG then don't go there......


----------



## Gimme Shoulder

OldEndicottHiway said:


> Sogs is a classy and level-headed woman. She won't take the bait.


That's too bad. I've got popcorn a'popp'n.


----------



## Crithater

Gimme Shoulder said:


> From Crithater to To OEH: "Just turn in your Man Card on your way out".
> 
> Now that is hilarious...:lol:
> 
> Get a clue[/QUOTE
> 
> See if I hadn't been here, your day would be just doom and gloom.... glad I could cheer you up....


----------



## Crithater

OldEndicottHiway said:


> This whole bruhaha has been an interesting study on differing views.
> 
> I have to say I'm heartened by the number of fellers I've seen step up to the plate and be...men.


Well Old 

If I had your gender mixed up then I bend one knee and ask for you forgiveness....


----------



## Gimme Shoulder

Crithater said:


> female members (and moderator no less) in order to get your rocks off.
> 
> Sorry...you are getting weaker in your replys.....don't get my rocks off there, just defending against censorship. that's what you and others want. If you don't like PG then don't go there......


Oh...this just keeps get'n better......I saw a train wreck once. This looks just like it, only in slow motion....


----------



## robdamanii

Crithater said:


> female members (and moderator no less) in order to get your rocks off.
> 
> Sorry...you are getting weaker in your replys.....don't get my rocks off there, just defending against censorship. that's what you and others want. If you don't like PG then don't go there......


Newsflash:

Private message board in which you are a guest. If you don't like the "censorship" or the moderation, GTFO.

kthxbi


----------



## Crithater

robdamanii said:


> Newsflash:
> 
> Private message board in which you are a guest. If you don't like the "censorship" or the moderation, GTFO.
> 
> Didn't you use this same argument on PG forum. So it's my ball and I'm going home if I don't play the game your way.....Not very sporting of you.....Well we will see what Sogno says...If she is as classy and opened mind as you say, you are in for a disappointing night....


----------



## robdamanii

Crithater said:


> robdamanii said:
> 
> 
> 
> Newsflash:
> 
> Private message board in which you are a guest. If you don't like the "censorship" or the moderation, GTFO.
> 
> Didn't you use this same argument on PG forum. So it's my ball and I'm going home if I don't play the game your way.....Not very sporting of you.....Well we will see what Sogno says...If she is as classy and opened mind as you say, you are in for a disappointing night....
> 
> 
> 
> Wrong, I'm not making the rules. You're the one who wishes to bend them, and the simple news is that if you bend them enough, you'll be sent packing, much like the rest of the neanderthals who've attempted to post their jerkin' material in PG.
> 
> Being the classless ********* that you are, I'm expecting that it's difficult for you to comprehend.
Click to expand...


----------



## Crithater

robdamanii said:


> Crithater said:
> 
> 
> 
> Wrong, I'm not making the rules. You're the one who wishes to bend them, and the simple news is that if you bend them enough, you'll be sent packing, much like the rest of the neanderthals who've attempted to post their jerkin' material in PG.
> 
> Being the classless ********* that you are, I'm expecting that it's difficult for you to comprehend.
> 
> 
> 
> I always know when someone has lost the argument.....They result to name calling....I have broken no rules in PG....I'm merely exposing it's your way or the highway censorship....Forums should be a place to exchange ideas and hopefully our little chat has brought that about......
Click to expand...


----------



## OldEndicottHiway

Gimme Shoulder said:


> Oh...this just keeps get'n better......I saw a train wreck once. This looks just like it, only in slow motion....




I come back in from feeding the horsies and...oh my! 


Crithater, I will say this with no ire or sarcasm: just because you may speak and have the guts to say what you think, doesn't mean it's good, or right, or even beneficial to you (I'm still learning this lesson).

Some drunks say, "yeah, I drink. So what?" meanwhile everyone around them is telling them they are destroying their lives at worst, or limiting their lives, at best. Their drunk friends will tell them otherwise, because... well, birds of a feather flock together. We tend to seek out folks that think like we do...

...you can look for people who think as you do to support your beliefs, or you can open yourself up to other's viewpoints. 

There's something to be said for listening to those around you...and just because you may disagree with them, doesn't mean they're wrong. 

Good luck, and that's all.


----------



## Crithater

robdamanii said:


> Sorry I didn't catch that, most of us have lives and can't watch Star Trek in between spank-a-thons...



You want to be spanked...I don't think we know each other that well......


----------



## Crithater

OldEndicottHiway said:


> I come back in from feeding the horsies and...oh my!
> 
> 
> Point well taken....If we were ever to ride together I won't crash you now...you are too nice...Criterium Hater


----------



## Aindreas

Crithater said:


> robdamanii said:
> 
> 
> 
> I always know when someone has lost the argument.....They result to name calling....I have broken no rules in PG....I'm merely exposing it's your way or the highway censorship....Forums should be a place to exchange ideas and hopefully our little chat has brought that about......
> 
> 
> 
> Crithater,
> 
> Honestly and truly, you are not winning the argument. You are making whatever side of the issue you are on look hateful, angry, and misogynistic. Really.
Click to expand...


----------



## Crithater

Aindreas said:


> Crithater said:
> 
> 
> 
> Crithater,
> 
> Honestly and truly, you are not winning the argument. You are making whatever side of the issue you are on look hateful, angry, and misogynistic. Really.
> 
> 
> 
> In what way has this been hateful....I have defend my position quite well.....
Click to expand...


----------



## Crithater

Aindreas said:


> Crithater said:
> 
> 
> 
> Crithater,
> 
> Honestly and truly, you are not winning the argument. You are making whatever side of the issue you are on look hateful, angry, and misogynistic. Really.
> 
> 
> 
> Please Aindreas no talking just to hear one talk.....
Click to expand...


----------



## robdamanii

Crithater said:


> I always know when someone has lost the argument.....They result to name calling....I have broken no rules in PG....I'm merely exposing it's your way or the highway censorship....Forums should be a place to exchange ideas and hopefully our little chat has brought that about......


Forums ARE a place to exchange ideas, as long as they abide by the private forum guidelines.

Leering and (mostly) naked women and making misogynistic comments is not an exchange of ideas, no matter how much your prepubescent brain wishes it would be.

Go back to trolling PO. You're much more talented at that.


----------



## PlatyPius

Crithater said:


> In what way has this been hateful....I have defend my position quite well.....



You're kidding, right? You can't even quote a post without f##king it up....


----------



## physasst

This has become nothing but a trainwreck of personal insults. Thread closed. This is Sogs forum, so I will let her decide if any further moderation is required......


----------



## physasst

Crithater said:


> You want to be spanked...I don't think we know each other that well......


This is WAY over the line.....you have both made this personal.

I think that you and robdamanii BOTH need some time off.


----------



## il sogno

physasst said:


> This has become nothing but a trainwreck of personal insults. Thread closed. This is Sogs forum, so I will let her decide if any further moderation is required......


Thanks phys.

Thread cleaned up and locked.


----------

