# Commuting through "bad" areas



## loki_1 (Jun 12, 2003)

I know some of you have experience with this.. just looking for thoughts on how you handle it... 
My commute takes me through a city that is considered one of the most dangerous in the country. The roads I commute on don't generally make me nervous though. I don't know the crime statistics of the specific area I ride through, but there are two hospitals in the area and generally a lot of people around. I get flack from family members though about the perceived danger. Its not the commute that makes me think about crime, its those pesky family members and their perceptions.
I try not to draw attention to myself (no bright colors, fancy sunglasses, etc) but from the start I am losing this battle just by being on a bike. I also say good morning to the people i see every day.. crossing guards, police, etc.
I like to have a game plan in place before things happen.. rehearse it so it would come more naturally in a real situation.
At this point I haven't run into anything other than a driver beeping at me. But I would definitely give up the bike and bag without hesitation in a situation that escalated beyond something I could sprint away from.
For those with experience, how do you handle it? Do you try to keep a low profile? What types of confrontations have you encountered? Resolutions? 
Does anyone carry anything for self defense? My first thought is that its probably not necessary and could cause more harm than good.. other opinions?
Thanks.


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## MB1 (Jan 27, 2004)

*#1 Keep moving.*

#2 Don't sightsee.
#3 If you do get a flat keep going until you get to someplace that feels safe.
#4 Avoid these areas at night as much as possible.

Question, what city is worse than DC or Baltimore?


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## StageHand (Dec 27, 2002)

MB1 is spot on. If you're uncomfortable, get out. That said, it may not be as big a deal as you think. Be smart, don't be a target and you'll be OK in most places (that is NOT a universal truth).

I should note that any "bad" areas of DC MB1 goes through on his way to work are way out of his way.


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## loki_1 (Jun 12, 2003)

MB1 said:


> #2 Don't sightsee.
> #3 If you do get a flat keep going until you get to someplace that feels safe.
> #4 Avoid these areas at night as much as possible.
> 
> Question, what city is worse than DC or Baltimore?


Thank you MB1. Your patience and helpful information to everyone is what makes this community great. 

To answer your question.. Camden, NJ 

I work in Philly. Philly seems a lot more cycle friendly. There is a bike lane for most of my commute in Philly.

I have gotten two flats, one outside a daycare, the other in front of the transportation hub. Both areas seemed safe enough. Have since upgraded to flat resistant 28's.

My alternate plan for getting caught in the office late is to take the train part of the way home, past Camden.


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## bigbill (Feb 15, 2005)

MB1 said:


> #2 Don't sightsee.
> #3 If you do get a flat keep going until you get to someplace that feels safe.
> #4 Avoid these areas at night as much as possible.
> 
> Question, what city is worse than DC or Baltimore?


I have two areas on my commute that are a little scary after dark. Most of the time I leave work by 3:30 so it is not an issue. To lessen any risk of riding through bad areas, I have always done a couple of things:
1. I use armadillo tires, gatorskins are good too, but armadillos seem better if you have to ride over glass. 
2. I use the biggest tube that will fit in my tire. I use 28-38mm tubes in my 25/28mm commuter tires. If I have a flat, the strong sidewalls of the armadillos and a large tube will allow me to ride a considerable distance on my bike. 
3. I use the brightest headlight I could find. Although it attracts attention to you, it is the good kind of attention. It also allows you to see ahead for potential problems.
4. Know the safe areas on your route. When I commuted in Virginia, I knew where I was safe to change a flat. Look for fire stations, city maintenance facilities (well lit), and busy shopping areas. 
5. Although it is illegal in some areas, if I ride up to a red light and there are no cars around, I roll it. In some states, bikes can do a stop and go at red lights since the bike may not change the light. 
6. I wear a small camelback. If I am riding home after dark, I clip my cell phone to it. 
7. MB1 mentioned not sightseeing, your purpose is to get to and from work on your bike. Ride with purpose, don't act intimidated by traffic, make the cars give you room, and keep your eyes looking ahead. Looking around at other people may appear threatening.


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## MB1 (Jan 27, 2004)

OverStuffed said:


> MB1 is spot on. If you're uncomfortable, get out. That said, it may not be as big a deal as you think. Be smart, don't be a target and you'll be OK in most places (that is NOT a universal truth).
> 
> I should note that any "bad" areas of DC MB1 goes through on his way to work are way out of his way.


I meet Miss M after work-that is when we hit some of the sketchier areas of DC. Actually though there isn't anywhere in DC or PG County where we don't ride on occasion.


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## MarkS (Feb 3, 2004)

*That's a good question*



MB1 said:


> #
> Question, what city is worse than DC or Baltimore?


And, the answer, Camden, is a good one. I actually have walked the streets of downtown Camden on my way to the Federal courthouse there and lived to tell about it. It may not be worse than Baltimore, my usual haunt, but I'm not going to argue about it.

I commute from a suburb of Baltimore to downtown Baltimore. I manage to miss the worst neighborhoods, but there is a small part of my commute that passes through the connector between the worst neighborhoods. 

I agree with MB1's points. I commute in lycra and ride a relatively nice bike. But, I do try to follow these rules: 

1. Stick to well traveled streets, expecially after dark. This goes counter to the usual rule that one wants to ride on streets with little traffic. But, the more people that are around, even people in cars, the less likely that something bad will happen.

2. Keep your eyes on the road. If you see something illegal happening, like a drug deal, do not stare and keep moving. 

3. Stop as little as possible -- if there is no traffic on cross streets, I go through red lights.

4. Learn how to sprint.


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## RocketDog (Apr 9, 2005)

*Don't stop, Be invisible*

No lycra.
Leave the shiny new bike at home.
Never stop rolling.
I don't care how badly he cut you off or how close he was when he passed, Never mess with people in cars!

While cars are dangerous, pedestrians aren't unless you stop. I ride through some rough spots. I've been chased by a guy with a 2X4, and had a bowl of soup hurled at me (homeless guy who I almost ran over his feet). While both incidents would have meant trouble if they had caught me, neither had a chance to catch up.


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## fbagatelleblack (Mar 31, 2005)

I used to work in some pretty nasty housing projects in Roxbury, MA. The number one rule for staying safe was to look like you have a real purpose being there. As another poster stated "don't sightsee." Just go about your business, in this case commuting. Don't do anything to draw attention to yourself. Don't look scared or confused or like you are looking for trouble.

Bottom line is that most of the people in these "bad" areas are just like you and me - working folks and families who are getting through their day as best they can. Blend in. Stay out of situations where the bad apples will notice you.

Hmm... Re-reading my post, I'm not sure it's very helpful, but I'll hit the "submit" button anyway.


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## _Mackie (Jun 17, 2005)

loki_1 said:


> I know some of you have experience with this.. just looking for thoughts on how you handle it...


Ride _REALLY_ fast.  
I used to commute through East Flatbush (in Brooklyn, New York) on my way to grad school.
It was rough, but I only ever had 1 problem, and in reality, it was no big deal. I was commuting into the lab at 6:30 on a sunday morning (Yay, grad school  ) so rather than take my quiet, less direct route, i thought i would take the typically busy but more direct Flatbush Ave. 
Given the day & time, i suspected that all would be quiet. And it was, for a while. As i was passing a paricularly bad corner, I saw 2 guys sitting on a car, on my side of the street. As I got closer, I noticed that they were drinking 40's - at 6:30 on a sunday morning. No big deal. But as I passed them, out of the corner of my eye, I noticed one move suddenly, as he said "Hey, come here a minute!". 
That was all the impetus I needed to launch into a full sprint, while crossing the street and continuing down Flatbush. A second or so later a 1/2 full 40 bottle crashed down behind me, but I didn't slow down to discuss it with those folks. 
Felt a little jumpy after that, but I've taken that route a dozen times since then.
No big deal. It's sort of funny, in retrospect.

My thoughts are similar to MB1's - ride fast, and don't stop unless you really have to. Avoid these areas when less populated. Good luck & stay safe!


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## TypeOne (Dec 28, 2001)

*Cincy*

I used to ride through Corryville and Over-the-Rhine when I went to school at Univ of Cincinnati a few years back, and I was pretty intimidated. My only advice:

1. Don't stop if you don't have to, and

2. See everything but look at nobody.


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## PmbH (Sep 4, 2003)

- Look as poor as possible 
- Wear sunglasses (nothing fancy, something out of style) so you can keep tabs on your surroundings without "looking" at anyone, and a tiny black glasses-mounted mirror to watch behind
- If you do need to get off the bike for anything, keep your helmet on


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## filtersweep (Feb 4, 2004)

MB1 said:


> I meet Miss M after work-that is when we hit some of the sketchier areas of DC. Actually though there isn't anywhere in DC or PG County where we don't ride on occasion.



Around here, the motorists in the nicest suburbs are far more dangerous than the worst that the streets have to offer in the worst of neighborhoods (where I bike to class once/week).

Seriously, who gets harrassed in these neighborhoods while on a bike... worst that's ever happened to me was having rocks or bottles thrown at me by kids (who ran like hell when I turned and chased them). Bikes are almost invisible... motorcycles on the other hand...


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## KendleFox (Sep 5, 2005)

Here is my advise, gained from years of expirence from livin in da hood.

Wear shoes you can run in...

Ride a girls bike, then nobody will want to steel it, unless you dont mind getting your ass kicked by a girl.

Dress like a gang-banger, so the the little hoodlems will think your cool...

Dont do the same route every day at the same time. (Anti-terrorist measures)

Carry some crack (20 dollar rock) on you, if some one comes up to you, just show them the rock and throw it in the opposite direction, then spilt real quick like. By the time he/she finds the crack, you will be long gone...


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## MarkS (Feb 3, 2004)

*General Comments on Bad Areas*

There are bad areas and there are BAD areas. Just because a neighborhood is poor, has a large number of people who are of an ethnic derivation different from yours, etc. does not necessarily make an area unsafe. Also, most people in even the worst areas are law abiding. If you really are worried about the area through which you travel, you should look at police reports or local newspaper stories about the crimes in the area, the type of crime and where it occurs. Baltimore has one of the highest murder rates in the country and high rates for all kinds of other crime, too. But, most of those murders are concentrated in a few areas -- I don't go there. Also, most of the murders are drug related -- if you are not buying or selling drugs the chances of your being murdered are significantly lessened. Even the most hardened criminal does not want to kill you. The reason that I stay away from the places with the most murders is that sometimes people are killed by stray bullets in those places. Most people who are mugged or robbed are people who look like easy targets. If you are fit and look like you know what you are doing, your chances of being a target are lessened.


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## StageHand (Dec 27, 2002)

Indeed, I don't know where Miss M works. You have trounced me once again.


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## delay (Mar 10, 2005)

This is of no help, and offers no advice- just a personal observation. 

For whatever reason, I always feel more secure on my bike in sketchy areas than in my car.


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## northcoast (Jul 11, 2003)

You guys make some great points. MarkS is right when he says that being poor doesn't necessarily make an area "bad". I also agree with the "no staring at scary looking dudes" rules. The loose dogs on my route actually scare me a lot more than the people. I consider myself a very non-violent person, but a u-lock in my back pocket makes me feel a little safer. I'd probably never have the guts to use it against man or beast.
Peace,


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## firefox (Jan 31, 2005)

filtersweep said:


> Around here, the motorists in the nicest suburbs are far more dangerous than the worst that the streets have to offer in the worst of neighborhoods (where I bike to class once/week).
> 
> Seriously, who gets harrassed in these neighborhoods while on a bike... worst that's ever happened to me was having rocks or bottles thrown at me by kids (who ran like hell when I turned and chased them). Bikes are almost invisible... motorcycles on the other hand...


Same in Baltimore (for my commute that is...). I get harrassed more in the subs than I do in the hood (and I go through a few of the really bad ones). :| In fact, I love the older ladies that are out at 6am that cheer me on when I go by. 

ff


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## loki_1 (Jun 12, 2003)

northcoast said:


> You guys make some great points. MarkS is right when he says that being poor doesn't necessarily make an area "bad". I also agree with the "no staring at scary looking dudes" rules. The loose dogs on my route actually scare me a lot more than the people. I consider myself a very non-violent person, but a u-lock in my back pocket makes me feel a little safer. I'd probably never have the guts to use it against man or beast.
> Peace,


like i said in my original post.. its not my commute that makes me think about crime, i dont feel unsafe.. its the relatives that give cause for reflection.

and again.. always better to have a plan than not.


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## Dave_Stohler (Jan 22, 2004)

I used to commute through a ghetto, and to be quite honest, it was better than commuting on suburban streets. I always took the back streets-never the big boulevards where all the 'thugs' hang out, and aside from having to dodge a lot of broken glass, it was pretty good. Less traffic there, and the people who were driving never seemed to be in a big rush. Just be careful when you see suburbanites slowing down looking for hookers or dealers-they can be a bit erratic.


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## MB1 (Jan 27, 2004)

OverStuffed said:


> Indeed, I don't know where Miss M works. You have trounced me once again.


She works on the hill. We often cruise through SE and SW afterwork. NE on weekends. We live in NW. There are amazingly good riding spots in the district once you figure out how to get to them.


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## FishrCutB8 (Aug 2, 2004)

I ride through Allison Hill in Harrisburg PA without incident. I wave to people, smile a lot, and compliment the kids on their bikes. Never once had a problem...


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## beantownbiker (May 30, 2002)

*harlem...*

althought its not as bad as it used to be, I have found the people there actually nicer than elsewhere in the city, just act/appear purpose driven and you rarely get bothered...only harassed once by a couple of punks on bmx bikes, ignored them and on my way back they ignored me...


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## Howzitbroke (Jun 1, 2005)

The worst things happen to me in the best areas. Beats me why but I would rather cruise through many of the crap areas of Cincinnati than some of the roads through the nice burbs with the type A jack clowns. Just pay attention and ride. Don't piss people off. Crime is more often personal than truly random. Just pay attention and if something doesn't look right it isn't.


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## PmbH (Sep 4, 2003)

I forgot to mention this yesterday - In a rough part of Reno, there's this guy who used to ride around there wearing MTB downhiller style arm/elbow pads, knee/shin pads, a full face helmet, goggles, and motorcycle boots. This was a couple years back, but he was a regular in the 'hood...


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## rangerskip (Sep 22, 2005)

KendleFox said:


> Here is my advise, gained from years of expirence from livin in da hood.
> 
> Wear shoes you can run in...
> 
> ...


And I can just hear it now..."but officer I was just carrying the crack cocaine as a decoy in case someone tried to roll me"...nice try buddy, now get up against the wall so I can cuff you and put you in the cruiser"...

This is the first time I have read this forum...very interesting! We also need a separate one on how to deal with being chased by Rotweilers, Pit Bulls and other aggressive and lethally capable dogs.

Writing to you from downtown Gulf Breeze, FL where the only excitement is shark attacks and hurricanes. (but usually not happening while riding a bike!)


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## wayneanneli (Jul 8, 2004)

Bad area? In Lulea, Sweden? Happy to say that we have no bad areas. Just nice residential areas with lots of forest and inlets for paddling. Am I rubbing it in a little?? Sorry. 
Cheers, Wayne


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## Dave_Stohler (Jan 22, 2004)

wayneanneli said:


> Bad area? In Lulea, Sweden? Happy to say that we have no bad areas. Just nice residential areas with lots of forest and inlets for paddling. Am I rubbing it in a little?? Sorry.
> Cheers, Wayne


Hey, you never know-somebody might throw a lutefisk at you some day while you are riding....


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## CycleBatten (Sep 28, 2004)

MB1 said:


> I meet Miss M after work-that is when we hit some of the sketchier areas of DC. Actually though there isn't anywhere in DC or PG County where we don't ride on occasion.


I live in College Park, MD in PG County. PG County has some scary stuff going on- crossed the triple digit murder count WAY back in August. I used to live in Bethesda which has like no violent crime. College Park is pretty nice, most of the crime comes in from other parts of the county it seems. In most of my rides (out through USDA if you know the area) I feel pretty darn safe. I had one flat on the way back from a ride where I was trying a new way home and rather unsure of myself. I flatted in a less than amazing neighborhood and definitely got some stares as I stood there in bright red and white lycra trying to change a tire as fast as I could. In restrospect it was no biggie, but a little disconcerting at the time. 

I commute, when I do, around town on an old C'dale and never feel particularly worried, but if I do I just try and keep moving and blend in. Somedays I look like the riff-raff in ratty clothes. I'd worry that some cop who might recognize Cannondale as being a higher end bike might mistake me for some homeless bike thief. The ragged flannel jacket and dirty kahki shorts doesnt make it look like I have anything worth stealing.


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## soulsurfer104 (Jun 30, 2003)

whenever my friend and i are hiking in remote areas, we carry canisters of something called Bear Assault on our backpack shoulder straps where it is immediately accessible. it's marketed as "bear attack deterrent," and it's basically pepper spray multiplied by about five billion. there are few, if any, bears around where i live, but i sometimes hike in a canyon that is a known favorite location for animal-sacrificing cults and other equally freakish groups of people that i would really rather not be forced to hang around with. the nice thing about the Bear Assault is that, unlike a firearm, i would have no reason to hesitate before using it. it is not lethal, and it has no permanent after-effects, but it will incapacitate a bear, or person, or anything else, for a good long while.

those of you that commute in "bad" areas may want to look into such a product- if it can stop a bear, it will almost certainly stop a knife-wielding thug. you could probably carry the canister in a bottle cage, and it would also be useful for aggressive dogs.


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## studiddy (Sep 27, 2005)

Just because a neighborhood is poor, has a large number of people who are of an ethnic derivation different from yours, etc. does not necessarily make an area unsafe.

Come on man, no one said anything about race or being indigent. You don't have to play the PC safety card when we all know we are talking about BAD AREAS, not labeling bad people. Jeez,
Anyway, always at least try to look confident. And I've read that, at least if walking, people chewing gum are less likely to be messed with. Not entirely sure why. 
Of course, you could consider simply avoiding bad areas. If that is an option.


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## wayneanneli (Jul 8, 2004)

Dave_Stohler said:


> Hey, you never know-somebody might throw a lutefisk at you some day while you are riding....


Hahaha. I'm impressed. Not too many people know what lutfisk is. Have you ever eaten it? Lutfisk is usually eaten during only the Christmas holidays, with boiled potatos and a white sauce.
Cheers, Wayne


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## 0119 (Aug 9, 2003)

The first thing they taught us in bike cop school was act like a car not a pedestrian. The first thing we always taught a victim was eye contact. 95% of the time the dirt bag is looking for an easy mark. People who look them in the eye can i.d. them and are not an easy mark. Of course looking into the eyes of a gang banger might also instigate them. Drive defensively not only traffic wise but crowd wise. Avoid groups of more than one or two if possible, they're always braver when their buddies with them.


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## SCW (Mar 19, 2005)

wayneanneli said:


> Hahaha. I'm impressed. Not too many people know what lutfisk is. Have you ever eaten it? Lutfisk is usually eaten during only the Christmas holidays, with boiled potatos and a white sauce.
> Cheers, Wayne


Know what it is? It's an icon, when kids are bad they are threatened with two things, Lutefisk or liver for dinner. In my wife's family they were told "You're in deep kim-shee (sp?) now!)

What exactly does "lutefisk" mean? I imagine it's something like "gelatinous chest-cold by-product".


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## Area Man (Jun 29, 2004)

*Camden? Please don't.*

Having familiarity with Philly, DC, Baltimore, and unfortunately, Camden, I can unequivocally say that Camden easily trumps the others for fear factor. I'd rather do a mime performance on a corner in Anacostia than drive an armored car through the worst of Camden. It wasn't named most dangerous US locale for 2004 for nothing.


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## wayneanneli (Jul 8, 2004)

SCW said:


> Know what it is? It's an icon, when kids are bad they are threatened with two things, Lutefisk or liver for dinner. In my wife's family they were told "You're in deep kim-shee (sp?) now!)
> 
> What exactly does "lutefisk" mean? I imagine it's something like "gelatinous chest-cold by-product".


Lutfisk is "boiled ling", a white boney fish that is boiled. It's essentially tasteless, but by adding a white sauce on top of it and sprinkling white pepper and spices, it taste pretty good. It isn't my favourite Swedish food, but it's nice at Christmas. Most people eat it pretty much 2-3 times per year during the holidays.


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## Dave_Stohler (Jan 22, 2004)

There's a reason why it's boiled-it's fish that has been preserved in lye. Just like saat cod, you need to get the preservatives out by soaking and rinsing several times. It's a truly awful form of food, something that made sense back in the days before refrigeration. I ate it once. Never again......


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## cydswipe (Mar 7, 2002)

*At least you don't work with it.*



Dave_Stohler said:


> There's a reason why it's boiled-it's fish that has been preserved in lye. Just like saat cod, you need to get the preservatives out by soaking and rinsing several times. It's a truly awful form of food, something that made sense back in the days before refrigeration. I ate it once. Never again......


Lutefisk is a mean prank in the meat business. It comes in 60# boxes. The pieces are enormous. It's soaked in lye. It smells awful. Nobody ever wants a whole piece, so you have to cut them to size, which is hard when your eyes are watering from the awful odor. Your gloves, knife and apron reek of the smell for weeks after holding just one ounce of the stuff. My grandpa was from Norway, he loved it. He and my great uncle, I can remember them eating it with hot butter dripping from ther chins. Oh man, I just helped i the Hijacking of a legit thread about safety with a Lutefisk story. Spider sense tingling, a PM from the moderator!


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## Bryan (Sep 19, 2004)

I was born and raised in East Point, Georgia. A White boy on a bike stands out like a pimple on Snow White's ass. You're not going to talk your way out of trouble, if they want you or your bike you better be prepared to fight for it or give it up. Best thing you can do is just keep moving and pack a can of OC spray or something similar. Today I live in the mean streets of Boise, ID. Kids try to be tough, but it's hard for a street gang to command respect when living in "Happy Valley a Planned Community".


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## MarkS (Feb 3, 2004)

*My city's badder than yours!*



Bryan said:


> I was born and raised in East Point, Georgia. A White boy on a bike stands out like a pimple on Snow White's ass. You're not going to talk your way out of trouble, if they want you or your bike you better be prepared to fight for it or give it up. Best thing you can do is just keep moving and pack a can of OC spray or something similar. Today I live in the mean streets of Boise, ID. Kids try to be tough, but it's hard for a street gang to command respect when living in "Happy Valley a Planned Community".


East Point Georgia looks like a crime-free paradise compared to my commuting territory, Baltimore http://www.cityrating.com/citycrime.asp?city=Baltimore&state=MD Our murder rate is 5.48 times the national average, robbery rate is 3.08 times the national average and all violent crimes is 2.90 times the national average.

I agree with you to keep moving. Insofar as sprays or other defensive tools, I wouldn't even bother -- I assume that every person on the streets of Baltimore except for me is armed and ready to shoot me on the spot. If you can't outrun them, you have to submit. There really aren't any other options.

Insofas as the white vs. black issue is concerned, I actually believe that a white person is safer in Baltimore than a black person even though most of the bad areas are almost wholly black (the city as a whole is about 67% black). If you look at the crime statistics, most of the crime in Baltimore is black on black. Black on black crime does not get the publicity or police response that black on white crime does -- even from a police force that is headed by an African-American. This is an issue for another thread in another place. But, I feel a lot safer being a white man in a black neighborhood than if I were black. Maybe I am deluded. But, I think that most criminals want easy prey and a middle class white guy is too much trouble to bother with.


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## siècletourist (Jul 26, 2005)

Area Man said:


> Having familiarity with Philly, DC, Baltimore, and unfortunately, Camden, I can unequivocally say that Camden easily trumps the others for fear factor. I'd rather do a mime performance on a corner in Anacostia than drive an armored car through the worst of Camden. It wasn't named most dangerous US locale for 2004 for nothing.


I've biked through Camden on several occassions and I have to agree; you'll be hard pressed to find a more dangerous city anywhere in the US. Camden isn't dangerous because it's poor, but because it's deserted. In many parts of Camden, there's absolutely no one around, even during the day. Anyone moving is bound to stick out like a sore thumb. 

Luckily, Camden is pretty compact. If you plan your route well you shouldn't have to ride through more than six or seven blocks of "really" bad neighborhoods. There are a couple of main streets that lead from the Ben Franklin Bridge right out of town. Pick one of those, get to know it well, and learn to ride fast.


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## MTT (Oct 14, 2005)

*Peppa*

Easy enough- 

1- Have an old looking shitty bike.
2- I carry Pepper spray for dogs, but it would work on punks as well.
3- Armi-freaking-dillo tires!! Lots of glass in the hood I ride through- boneheads!
4- Wear football shoulder pads under your jacket


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## handsomerob (Oct 5, 2005)

I am very fortunate to be in a good suburb of Memphis http://www.cityrating.com/citycrime.asp?city=Germantown&state=TN, but I am always cognizant of what can happen when you fail to pay attention to your surroundings. Any self-defense class will tell you that another key to safety is to make yourself a more difficult target than someone else.

As far as protecting yourself, my 100% carry gun is a Kel-Tec P3AT. With a full magazine it only weighs 11oz and can be easily carried a number of ways. I would recommend putting at least 500 rounds through it to break you and the gun in appropiately and only carry ammo that you have reliably shot through it. I have my license to carry and practice regularly. 
The specifications can be seen here http://www.kel-tec.com/p3at_pistol.htm

I may get flamed by someone that is not keen on 2nd amendment rights, but please respect a citizen's right to carry an item to protect themself as they see fit, whether it be a pocket knife, OC spray, or your bike pump.


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## studiddy (Sep 27, 2005)

I thought in Memphis the carrying of firearms was mandatory. 
I don't ride through bad neighborhoods. The worst area I ride through has a row of less-ghetto houses in front of the real hood, so it kind of acts like a buffer. And if for some reason I ride through there, I only do it during the day.


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## bikenraider99 (Mar 6, 2002)

haha! This one is crazy, cause I had the same questions when I started out. I moved to the Southwest side of Houston from the outter West Side. Big difference. Not to mention I ride through the 3rd,4th,6th wards to and from. What I learned was keep moving and keep your head on a swivel. I'm friendly to the majority of people on my way and they seemed to have gotten used to me. I still keep my eyes open though, cause complacency leads to trouble. I take and took different routes so I knew an out. 

As for dogs, I've actually had less problems with them going through the rough parts of town than I do in the suburbs on the way in. The ones I have encountered have been of two varieties: lazy and uninterested or crazy as hell. The crazy as hell ones I can get by, even if they get the jump on me. They seem to lose interest, although not all the time, after a quick acceleration and some space is put on them. That's not always the case though and I have to turn off somewhere and zig zag through a neighborhood (not the best thing to do at times). happy riding!


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## handsomerob (Oct 5, 2005)

studiddy said:


> I thought in Memphis the carrying of firearms was mandatory.
> I don't ride through bad neighborhoods. The worst area I ride through has a row of less-ghetto houses in front of the real hood, so it kind of acts like a buffer. And if for some reason I ride through there, I only do it during the day.


Memphis is very hit or miss (no pun intended), but I confess that my .380 is on me as much as my wallet. Basic exceptions are the three S's - swimming, showering, and sex.


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## handsomerob (Oct 5, 2005)

kpcw said:


> A nice 4" Spyderco. Avoid every pulling over if someone asks you to, look at no one, listen to to fewer, stop only if you need to pull over in an emergency for you or an emergency you witness, learn how to sprint, have a fully charged cell phone mounted on bike, learn how to open a Spyderco with one hand, silently, without looking. Have great tubes, liners, tires. Wear sunglasses (unless it is dark), you'd be surprised how much eye contact has to do with dicey situations. A frame pump, heavy duty kind, not like my featherweight.


To avoid learning the one handed opening trick (which I got proficient with my CRKT), I might recommend a Kershaw. They are expensive, but other than the benefit of a "push button" type opening mechanism, they also hold a sharpening well and are very well made. I will admit that the Spyderco's are very light though, I had a harpie that I could almost forget was there.

eta... 4" is our max legal limit to carry in TN. Make sure you know your state's limits before you by the Rambo'esque Bowie knife with the compass on the butt...


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