# Suitable chain catcher for Trek Madone?



## goofygoober (Oct 5, 2005)

Hi,
I have a Trek Madone (2005/6 model with aero section on seat tube) and run a Dura Ace 7900 braze on front mech with a FSA K force compact crankset.
I have tried to fit a K -Edge chain catcher,but cannot get it to sit correctly,due to the fact that the seat tube flares out towards the bottom bracket junction.
I don't think that it is possible to fit a dog fang, for the reason stated above.
Has anyone had the same issues,or would it be possible to vercome the K-Edge fit problem with the use of one of the 'hard to fit' kits?
Thanks in advance foe any help on this.


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## iliveonnitro (Feb 19, 2006)

A chain catcher with DA 7900 should not be needed. Instead of fixing the end-result, why not try to figure out what's causing the dropped chain?

Chain: How many months/miles are on your chain? What brand?

Chainrings: Months/miles on your front chainrings? What year are they?

Other: When was the last time you/a bike shop adjusted the front derailleur limit screws and chain tension? When exactly do you drop your chain (only uphills, flats and uphills, only from certain gears in the back)?


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## danl1 (Jul 23, 2005)

iliveonnitro said:


> A chain catcher with DA 7900 should not be needed. Instead of fixing the end-result, why not try to figure out what's causing the dropped chain?
> 
> Chain: How many months/miles are on your chain? What brand?
> 
> ...


Sorry, but that's a BS answer. Plenty of Tour bikes with 7900 are equipped with chain catchers, and it's simply impossible to blame either the riders, equipment, or mechanics in those instances. Chain catchers are wise insurance for racing, and worthwhile equipment insurance for the rest of us. 

Sure, if you don't put out a lot of power and always shift deliberately and carefully, the problem can be avoided. My mom's trailer-park tricycle never drops it's chain, either.  

OP: Sorry, I don't have a direct answer to your question. I built my own (of the FD-clamp style) from a $2 aluminum arrowshaft and 20 minutes of fiddling; there are several other posters here that have done similarly and with somewhat more elegant results.


edit: While looking for an answer, I came across this link, which talks about a number of devices (I'm intrigued by the J-tek), as well as having a link back into my own earlier thread on the question. Does that make me famous? No? Oh well.


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## goofygoober (Oct 5, 2005)

Thanks for the info. I don't have a particular problem with dropping chains. The chain catcher would be more for peace of mind than anything else.I'm sure that it is possible to find a chain catcher that fits my set up. I was just throwing the question out there to see if anyone else had the same problems finding a suitable item.
Thanks again.


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## Dinosaur (Jan 29, 2004)

The '07 Madones have a built in disc chain catcher thingy. I have an '07 Madone 5.9SL and have dropped the chain a few times (in four years). The disc will prevent the chain from damaging the frame. More of a problem with front derailleur adjustment. If it's properly adjusted the chain won't drop. Been-there-done-that. The newer Treks don't have that disc. Then I would think about a chain catcher, just in case.


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## looigi (Nov 24, 2010)

I just put K-Edge catcher on a 2011 Madone 6 no problemo. It's the kind that mounts by replacing the FD mounting screws with a longer one. It has nothing to do with the seat tube. This won't work for you?


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## cxwrench (Nov 9, 2004)

iliveonnitro said:


> A chain catcher with DA 7900 should not be needed. Instead of fixing the end-result, why not try to figure out what's causing the dropped chain?
> 
> Chain: How many months/miles are on your chain? What brand?
> 
> ...


i'll agree w/ dan big time...this is a lame answer. virtually _every_ pro race bike has a chain catcher/guide of some sort. it doesn't matter what derailleur it is, or who adjusted it...there are times when the chain will drop when shifting. and it will usually happen at the worst possible time. i'm a big fan of the k-edge, and not just because they sponsor the team i work for. i have them on all of my personal bikes. HTC/Highroad uses them, Colavita/Baci uses them, Garmin, BMC, UHC...they all use them. if they weren't valuable they wouldn't bother putting them on their bikes.


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## Mashmaniac (Jun 21, 2004)

Use a K-Edge on my 2010 Madone 6.9 that works fine. There is that metal stick-on plate that Terk uses but I wanted additional protection to prevent the chain from dropping all the way to the BB shell.


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## gtpharr (Oct 6, 2008)

I just purchased a brand new Trek OCLV frameset. My frameset came with a normal Trek Owner's Manual and also had a supplemental document included with frameset only purchases. Here is what my supplemental frameset document has to say about the use of chainkeepers:

Chainkeepers and Chainstay Guards: OCLV frames *MUST ALWAYS *be fitted with a chainkeeper to protect against damage in case of chainsuck or overshifting past the inner chainring. Some frames should likewise be fitted with a chainstay guard. 

Is there a difference between what Trek is refering to as a "Chainkeeper" and the device K-Edge markets as a "Chain Catcher"?




iliveonnitro said:


> A chain catcher with DA 7900 should not be needed. Instead of fixing the end-result, why not try to figure out what's causing the dropped chain?
> 
> Chain: How many months/miles are on your chain? What brand?
> 
> ...


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## cxwrench (Nov 9, 2004)

gtpharr said:


> Is there a difference between what Trek is refering to as a "Chainkeeper" and the device K-Edge markets as a "Chain Catcher"?


2 terms referring to the same thing.


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## looigi (Nov 24, 2010)

gtpharr said:


> ...Here is what my supplemental frameset document has to say about the use of chainkeepers: " Chainkeepers and Chainstay Guards: OCLV frames *MUST ALWAYS *be fitted with a chainkeeper to protect against damage in case of chainsuck or overshifting past the inner chainring."


Kind of interesting in that they don't supply their complete builds with a keeper. On the Madone 6 there's little clearance between the inner ring/crank and down-tube and if the chain drops it could jam and do more than just cosmetic damage. There is a thin metal "guard" plate stuck to the tube, but wouldn't want to rely on that to protect the frame. On a BMC I have, there is more clearance and if dropped the chain just falls onto harmlessly onto the BB shell.


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## Dinosaur (Jan 29, 2004)

The Trek disc chain catcher on the older models, supposedly prevents the chain from damaging the frame if you drop the chain. The K-Edge prevents the chain from dropping. I think the K-Edge would be a better option.


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## DaveG (Feb 4, 2004)

*insurance*



iliveonnitro said:


> A chain catcher with DA 7900 should not be needed. Instead of fixing the end-result, why not try to figure out what's causing the dropped chain?
> 
> Chain: How many months/miles are on your chain? What brand?
> 
> ...


Andy Schleck used to think a chain catcher was unnecessary too. I bet he has one now


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## DaveG (Feb 4, 2004)

*agree*



looigi said:


> Kind of interesting in that they don't supply their complete builds with a keeper. On the Madone 6 there's little clearance between the inner ring/crank and down-tube and if the chain drops it could jam and do more than just cosmetic damage. There is a thin metal "guard" plate stuck to the tube, but wouldn't want to rely on that to protect the frame. On a BMC I have, there is more clearance and if dropped the chain just falls onto harmlessly onto the BB shell.


Makes sense. Perhaps they will become standard equipment soon. It would be nice if there was a separate bolt location on the dérailleur tab so you could adjust the chain keeper independently of the derailuer


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## gtpharr (Oct 6, 2008)

I find this interesting also.

My new Trek frameset came with both a paper owner's manual and a CD/DVD owner's manual. I reviewed both of these owner's manuals today and could not find where either of theme even mentions a chainkeeper.

However, the supplemental Frameset Only document (Trek p/n 982934) that also came with my frameset states that OCLV frames *MUST ALWAYS *be fitted with a chainkeeper.





looigi said:


> Kind of interesting in that they don't supply their complete builds with a keeper. On the Madone 6 there's little clearance between the inner ring/crank and down-tube and if the chain drops it could jam and do more than just cosmetic damage. There is a thin metal "guard" plate stuck to the tube, but wouldn't want to rely on that to protect the frame. On a BMC I have, there is more clearance and if dropped the chain just falls onto harmlessly onto the BB shell.


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## cxwrench (Nov 9, 2004)

Dinosaur said:


> If it's properly adjusted the chain won't drop. Been-there-done-that.


you are incorrect...chain catchers wouldn't be available if this were the case. i'm guessing you haven't "been-there-as much-as-some-of-us-have" judging from this comment.


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## looigi (Nov 24, 2010)

DaveG said:


> .... It would be nice if there was a separate bolt location on the dérailleur tab so you could adjust the chain keeper independently of the derailuer


Yeah, it is a bit of a chore to align the derailer and catcher at the same time without having three hands. One thing that helps is to put a ~1mm shim between the chain on the inner ring and the catcher so that you can simply push the catcher against it to get the proper clearance while you're aligning and tightening the FD.


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## goofygoober (Oct 5, 2005)

looigi said:


> I just put K-Edge catcher on a 2011 Madone 6 no problemo. It's the kind that mounts by replacing the FD mounting screws with a longer one. It has nothing to do with the seat tube. This won't work for you?


I have the k-edge kit (with the longer screw as supplied) but can't get it to fit correctly.It doesn't sit right as the seat tube flares out towards the bottom bracket junction. As a result this pushes the k edge outwards and into contact with the chain. There is no gap between the two.
The guy in the LBS tried to fit it but couldn't. That's why I was wondering if the k -edge ' hard to fit kit' would alleviate this problem, as I believe that the fittings on this kit would move the chain catcher further forward, thereby clearing the flared out seat tube?


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## Dinosaur (Jan 29, 2004)

*Really?*



cxwrench said:


> you are incorrect...chain catchers wouldn't be available if this were the case. i'm guessing you haven't "been-there-as much-as-some-of-us-have" judging from this comment.


I think that chain catchers might be an 'add-on' if you own a carbon bike as a "just in case" feature. With carbon bikes there is a chance you can do some damage. I guess you did not read my post at the bottom of the page. 

I can only say from my OWN personal experience, dropping a chain was a case of bad timing or an improperly adjusted front derailleur.

Your "been-there-as-much-as-some-of us- have" remark gave me my laugh for the day. Thanks!


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## cxwrench (Nov 9, 2004)

Dinosaur said:


> I think that chain catchers might be an 'add-on' if you own a carbon bike as a "just in case" feature. With carbon bikes there is a chance you can do some damage. I guess you did not read my post at the bottom of the page.
> 
> I can only say from my OWN personal experience, dropping a chain was a case of bad timing or an improperly adjusted front derailleur.
> 
> Your "been-there-as-much-as-some-of us- have" remark gave me my laugh for the day. Thanks!


ahhhhh, gotcha. and it took me 3 tries and lots of backspacing to type those damn dashes into that!


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## Dinosaur (Jan 29, 2004)

*Well again*



cxwrench said:


> ahhhhh, gotcha. and it took me 3 tries and lots of backspacing to type those damn dashes into that!


It took me more than three tries. 

At the the young age of 68, I learned many moons ago that I did not know as much as I thought I did (it was actually a revelation). You never stop learning. I think sometimes people don't mean to come across as they do, but that's life in the big world. I don't like people who think they know everything, and that's one habit I'm trying to break...


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## cxwrench (Nov 9, 2004)

Dinosaur said:


> It took me more than three tries.
> 
> At the the young age of 68, I learned many moons ago that I did not know as much as I thought I did (it was actually a revelation). You never stop learning. I think sometimes people don't mean to come across as they do, but that's life in the big world. I don't like people who think they know everything, and that's one habit I'm trying to break...


tell me about it, i've been making my living working on bikes for 20yrs and there is always stuff to learn. people think bikes are so simple, but there are days when jetting a carb would be easier for me than figuring out a funny noise on a bike!


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## Andrea138 (Mar 10, 2008)

cxwrench said:


> tell me about it, i've been making my living working on bikes for 20yrs and there is always stuff to learn. people think bikes are so simple, but there are days when jetting a carb would be easier for me than figuring out a funny noise on a bike!


Geezer


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## looigi (Nov 24, 2010)

goofygoober said:


> I have the k-edge kit (with the longer screw as supplied) but can't get it to fit correctly.It doesn't sit right as the seat tube flares out towards the bottom bracket junction. As a result this pushes the k edge outwards and into contact with the chain. There is no gap between the two.


I a picture would be very helpful in getting us to understand your dilemma. The K-Edge I installed on the Madone 6 came nowhere near the large flaring seat tube. It lies in line with and ahead of the inner edge of the FD cage so it's tough to envision how it could.


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## PlatyPius (Feb 1, 2009)

For a "chain-catcher" I'd just use a cardboard box. You can chuck your chain and your other components in there when your Madone asplodes from being subjected to direct sunlight.


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## Touch0Gray (May 29, 2003)

operator error or not, it would be nice not to have the chain chop a big chunk out of the frame when it happens. I ride Campy and my drivetrains are PERFECTLY adjusted.BUT maybe once every year or every other year I screw up and shift the front and rear to the "inside" at the same time (across maybe 3 on the rear) and the momentum of the chain will keep it going and off she goes on the inside front. Now I don't race so that isn't an issue but there is a REAL good possibility that it i am dropping to a lower gear on both front and rear at the same time, that I am climbing and pretty likely standing on the pedals. I have been luck and never chopped up my carbon frame but i have nicked the paint on my steel. Right.... my fault, but that doesn't diminish the fact that it can happen!


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## ziscwg (Apr 19, 2010)

DaveG said:


> Andy Schleck used to think a chain catcher was unnecessary too. I bet he has one now


Didn't his chain drop to the outside to his crank arm?

I don't know if a chain catcher would have worked there. Well, not the K-edge ones


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## ukbloke (Sep 1, 2007)

ziscwg said:


> Didn't his chain drop to the outside to his crank arm?
> 
> I don't know if a chain catcher would have worked there. Well, not the K-edge ones


Zinn's theory is that Schleck had a chain catcher and that it still came off to the inside because the chain derailed at the *bottom* of the inner chain ring first.

Anyway, I had a chain catcher device and it didn't fit my Specialized Tarmac due to clearance issues around the BB. I solved the problem using a hack saw and a file - the chain catcher doesn't need to extend very far beyond the teeth of the chain ring to do its job. In the last year of riding I've had a couple of shifts where I've heard the chain grind on the chain catcher and then fall back onto the chain ring. When I've put the bike on the stand to see if the limit screw was off, I've found that it was close to perfect. This was with DA 7800 FD, DA 7800 shifters, DA chain, and an Ultegra 6600 compact crank-set. So the chain catcher was worthwhile insurance for me.


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## Scooper (Mar 4, 2007)

ziscwg said:


> Didn't his chain drop to the outside to his crank arm?


Where did you see that? According to Lennard Zinn's analysis, it dropped to the inside of the small chainring.


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## cxwrench (Nov 9, 2004)

Andrea138 said:


> Geezer


the woman of few words strikes again! 

oh andrea, did i mention how warm it was in nor-cal this weekend?


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## goofygoober (Oct 5, 2005)

Had no luck with the k-edge, and also tried a token chain catcher but that won't fit either.
I have posted a couple of pics to show how the seat tube flares out as it gets towards the bottom bracket junction
















Only other thing that I can think of is to get the largest dog fang available,split it and then re-attach with a cable tie. Seen it on a couple of bikes and it seems to look/work o.k.
If anyone else has any ideas please let me know:mad2: 
Thanks


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## looigi (Nov 24, 2010)

Here's a K-Edge on a 2011 Madone. There's about 3/8" between the K-Edge and the closest part of the flared seat-tube. (gold colored). It's not clear to me from your picture why this wouldn't work on your bike.


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## Touch0Gray (May 29, 2003)

I can where it wouldn't work if it was put on wrong.....


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## gtpharr (Oct 6, 2008)

I had a similar problem with a 2008 Trek Pilot frame. My LBS ended up grinding down part of the K-Edge to make it fit. As you can see, my K-Edge sits extremely close to the seat tube.


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## frdfandc (Nov 27, 2007)

ziscwg said:


> Didn't his chain drop to the outside to his crank arm?
> 
> I don't know if a chain catcher would have worked there. Well, not the K-edge ones



Andy's chain dropped to the inside and got jammed under the crank AND a chain catcher, making it very difficult to get the chain back on. Thats why he had to wait for the team car.


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## goofygoober (Oct 5, 2005)

That is exactly the same situation I am in at the moment. Looks as though I may have to go down the same road to make the k-edge fit.


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## rx-79g (Sep 14, 2010)

There are also some off-brand versions of the K-Edge available on Ebay for a bit less.

The Jtek makes me (probably for no good reason) nervous about messing with spindle spacers and chainline. But it is the most straight forward solution for non-round frames.


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## dave2pvd (Oct 15, 2007)

FYI,

I ended up in a similar situation just over a year ago. Didn't know that there was a device out there like K-Edge. Didn't want to mod a Dog fang. So, I ended up making my own. 

Then I ended up making a few more....

Long story short, I have sold a few of these to RBR members over the last year or so: Chain Tickler.

They fit just about every frame out there. Every once in a while, I used to hear someone needed to file down the curve where it nears the seat tube. So, the design was tweaked recently to remove some material from that spot - I have not heard of anyone making 6061 dust since then.

Anyway, there ends my shameless plug. Let me know if you'd like one.


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## wunlap togo (Oct 1, 2004)

goofygoober said:


> That is exactly the same situation I am in at the moment. Looks as though I may have to go down the same road to make the k-edge fit.


A few minutes with a file and the K-Edge can be modified to fit beautifully. I modified one to work on a Madone by filing some material away from the side that faces the seattube. You can control how far it sits from the chain very precisely this way since the back of the watcher can sit against the seattube.


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## uncrank (Feb 12, 2012)

*Wrong version of K-edge?*



looigi said:


> Here's a K-Edge on a 2011 Madone. There's about 3/8" between the K-Edge and the closest part of the flared seat-tube. (gold colored). It's not clear to me from your picture why this wouldn't work on your bike.


I just dropped my chain on my 2012 Madone 6, perfectly aligned Ultegra, nothing particularly dramatic, rear on the third cog in. Called my LBS about a chain keeper, and they recommended the K Edge which I am ordering today. They asked which crank I had and whether I had compact or normal cranks. There are several versions of the K edge, and for compatibility with your set up it looks like you should check this link:

http://www.acecosportgroup.com/docs/K-Edge-Road-Chain-Catchers-Compatibilty-Chart.pdf

For install instructions for each version, see the technical tab here: Technical


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## cxwrench (Nov 9, 2004)

uncrank said:


> I just dropped my chain on my 2012 Madone 6, perfectly aligned Ultegra, nothing particularly dramatic, rear on the third cog in. Called my LBS about a chain keeper, and they recommended the K Edge which I am ordering today. They asked which crank I had and whether I had compact or normal cranks. There are several versions of the K edge, and for compatibility with your set up it looks like you should check this link:
> 
> http://www.acecosportgroup.com/docs/K-Edge-Road-Chain-Catchers-Compatibilty-Chart.pdf
> 
> For install instructions for each version, see the technical tab here: Technical


good job on the dead thread revival.

View attachment 278829


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## looigi (Nov 24, 2010)

As long as this thread has been revived....

I saw a new type/refined K-Edge catcher on a pro bike. It had a two screws fastening it. The normal one that went through it and fastened the FD and one below it that threaded into an elongated radius washer. Looks like with this you lightly tighten the FD mounting screw to hold the FD in position, move the catcher into optimal position, fasten it there with the lower screw, and then fully torque the FD mounting screw while the catcher is held in position. This would be an improvement as holding both the FD and catcher in alignment while tightening the single screw can get tricky with only two hands.


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