# Need new pedals due to knee pain



## saleenboy818 (Aug 29, 2011)

I have been riding 105's Spd-sl's for about a year now and everything is fine. Except for the following problems.

I have sidi mega shoes due to the right side of my foot getting numb on rides really fast. They put a shim on the cleat but i dont think it helped much. 

My right knee started to hurt really bad in the inside part of the knee and i got checked out by the doctor and he says get new pedals (hes actually a cyclist). He says the way i walk (i walk with my feet outwards almost like a wobble if this makes sense lol) and on the shimano no float your knee is locked into one position and your putting strain on your knee. He says go with Speedplays for the float but can someone help out here a little i did some research but anyone have the same issue or can shed some light on my issue. 

Thanks!


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## tlg (May 11, 2011)

saleenboy818 said:


> I have been riding 105's Spd-sl's for about a year now and everything is fine.
> 
> i got checked out by the doctor and he says get new pedals (hes actually a cyclist).
> 
> He says the way i walk (i walk with my feet outwards almost like a wobble if this makes sense lol) and on the shimano no float your knee is locked into one position and your putting strain on your knee.


Maybe look for a new Dr instead of new pedals?

Shimano 105 PD-5700 Road Pedals
ADJUSTMENTS: Tension 
*FLOAT: 6 degrees *
MATERIAL: Aluminum alloy body, steel spindle 
SHOE COMPATIBILITY: 3-bolt LOOK-style 
WEIGHT: 325g/pair

Perhaps you have these...
Shimano SPD-SL Fixed Cleats - Replacement Bike Cleats

instead of these....
Shimano SPD-SL 6° Float Cleats - Replacement Bike Cleats


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## Schneiderguy (Jan 9, 2005)

SpeedPlay Zeros work for me and Xs did not. I have a badly damaged ACL.


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## saleenboy818 (Aug 29, 2011)

I actually have the yellow cleats thats the thing.


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## tlg (May 11, 2011)

saleenboy818 said:


> I actually have the yellow cleats thats the thing.


Then you should have float. Are your cleats mounted right?
Try cliping your shoes (not attached to your feet) onto your pedals. Line them up parallel to the bike. Then move each shoe side to side. It should move equal amounts side to side.


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## looigi (Nov 24, 2010)

Depends on the situation, but I like my foot to be naturally centered in the float. That is, while pedaling normally, I can rotate my foot a bit inward or outward within the float. This requires the cleats be angled appropriately on the bottom of the shoe. In my case, this is somewhat toe outward.


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## wim (Feb 28, 2005)

looigi said:


> Depends on the situation, but I like my foot to be naturally centered in the float. That is, while pedaling normally, I can rotate my foot a bit inward or outward within the float. This requires the cleats be angled appropriately on the bottom of the shoe. In my case, this is somewhat toe outward.


Agree. The cleats should be adjusted to the natural rotational center of the rider, which could be several degrees off the centerline of the bicycle. On top of that, that natural center may not the same for the left and the right foot.. Adjusting the rotational center to the bike's centerline is putting symmetry before the ride's health. That said, there _are_ riders whose natural center is dead straight ahead for both feet.


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## JCavilia (Sep 12, 2005)

wim said:


> Agree. The cleats should be adjusted to the natural rotational center of the rider, which could be several degrees off the centerline of the bicycle. On top of that, that natural center may not the same for the left and the right foot.. Adjusting the rotational center to the bike's centerline is putting symmetry before the ride's health. That said, there _are_ riders whose natural center is dead straight ahead for both feet.


From the OP's description, it sounds as if he's one of those whose feet (and more so the right one) naturally angle toes-out. Saleen, have you tried to set up the cleat to match that natural angle? You want to move the cleat as far to the inside as possible, so the foot is further out, and angle it to try to match the way you stand/walk. It''s possible that the angle you need would be too extreme for your crank clearance; that is, your ankle or heel would hit the crank if you got the angle you need. In that case, you might try a pedal-axle extender (google "knee saver") to get the necessary clearance. 

Since you already have cleats with some float, I don't think float per se is your issue. It's more likely you just don't have your cleats set up right for your leg geometry.


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## James6b (Aug 22, 2011)

Rolling my IT bands on one of those hard foam roller things has been awesome for my knee pain though it's more wear n tear as opposed to a real tear.


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## SteveV0983 (Dec 9, 2008)

Honestly, I believe this (knee pain) is the reason many people switch to Speedplay. I had been using Looks for 22 years and switched to Speedplay Zeros 3 years ago. I cannot believe I waited that long. I absolutely love these pedals! First of all, mounting them is a breeze because your for-aft, your left-right, and your rotation are 3 separate settings. You simply mount the base plates where you want them fore-aft, then you mount the cleat bodies where you want them left-right, and then the adjustable float takes care of the rotation. No more fiddling with oversized rectangular holes and washers trying to get the Look delta cleat "as close as possible" to where it should be. The double sided entry is great and I love the rotational float.
They did take about 2 rides to get used to because the Look pedals (and Shimanos work the same) have a spring tension which, although it allows for float, it wants to keep pushing your foot back to the middle position. The Speedplays have no tension, so your foot very easily aligns the way that it wants to.
I've had chondromalacia and struggled with knee pain for years (some severe, some just achy). Once I switched to Speedplays, my pain completely went away. As they say, YMMV, but they may help you.


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## DrSmile (Jul 22, 2006)

Have you tried moving your saddle up a mm or 2? I have found that diminishing the top of stroke knee flex is good on knees. It's also the reason my cranks are 170mm.


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## EuroSVT (Sep 15, 2011)

The beauty of the Speedplay Zero cleat is that you can adjust each foot to the float that you need. I have a messed up knee as well (27 years of skateboarding) and have become a huge fan of the Zero. Takes a few rides to break them in, as they require some force to snap into, but once done they are perfect.


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## LC (Jan 28, 2004)

You can only rotate your foot in to the point your hitting the crank arm with your ankle and even SPD-SL will allow that much rotation. I don't see how changing pedals will help, but a simple cleat alignment would take care of it. 

Too long crank arms are what hurt my knees. Even a small change of 170 to 172.5mm was enough to cause me problems.


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## forge55b (Jan 30, 2011)

I also have messed up knees and Speedplay Zero's actually work great for me with all the float dialed out. The cool thing about them is you can adjust them not only whole ranges such as 15 degrees + - but you could have it be, for example, +5 degrees and -10 degrees. I think it would be the most versatile pedal system for someone with knee issues.


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## stevoo (Oct 26, 2011)

This one is a really loaded question. Lots of things to consider. Here are a few things to consider.

Pushing a large gear can give some people knee pain. 

Spinning at higher RPM's can give some people knee pain.

Too long of crank arms can give some people knee pain.

Having pedals not located properly fore/aft can give some people knee pain and numbness. 

Having pedals not located properly in terms of rotational alignment (For your body) and each leg/foot independently can cause knee pain.

Having pedals that float too much can cause some people knee pain.

Having pedals that don't float enough can cause some people knee pain.

Q-factor that is too narrow causes some people knee pain.

Q-factor that is too wide causes some people knee pain.

Form in terms of pedaling style (Knees in or out) can cause some people knee pain.

Saddle height too high or low can give some people knee pain.

Do you do a lot of hill climbing. This causes some people knee pain.

Did you ramp up on weekly mileage too quickly? as this causes some people knee pain.

Other activities can injure a knee and then it shows up cycling.

The list goes on and on but you get the idea. Lots of variables to deal with. Knee pain is not always related to just pedal float. In my case my knee pain has nothing to do with pedal float. I have ridden fixed cleats, cleats that float a bit and speedplays adjusted from a lot of float to less than a lot. I have my preferences but pedals were not the cause of my knee pain and in fact several other cyclists that I know also can ride any cleat and have knee pain from other sources.

Don't give up and good luck.


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## AndrwSwitch (May 28, 2009)

I pedal a bit duck-footed. I pedaled even more duck-footed before allowing myself to be talked into fancy insoles and cants. I developed a pretty annoying knee injury before I started trying to fix things.

Speedplays were pretty close to being a magic bullet. In retrospect, I don't believe they're superior to a different pedal with correctly set up cleats. But the amount of float on a Speedplay X-pedal is insane, so while you still need to put the cleat in the right position, there's no messing around with rotation. Some people find it disconcerting, but I never had a problem with it.

It turned out that there were a few other things I needed to do. A proper bike fit was one. I had a misconception about saddle height that was preventing me from finding a good fit on my own, but I'd recommend one to someone without that misconception too because a good fitter will get your bike much closer to dialed in much less time than you will on your own.

My fancy insoles were the other thing. I have Specialized BG insoles. Took two tries to get the size right, turns out that a shim under the forefoot changes the relative height of the arch to the rest of the shoe enough to make a difference. I've ended up using both pairs, though, so all's well that ends well.

If I had to summarize the difference the changes made, it was that I was able to pedal with good form and alignment without fighting either the shape of my foot and ankle or the setup of the bike itself.


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## Erion929 (Jun 10, 2010)

Using Shimano SPD-SL, and rotating the cleats so that I'm toed out a few degrees has gotten rid of my knee issues as well.


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## saleenboy818 (Aug 29, 2011)

Thanks everyone for the input. I'll be going to the LBS today and see if i should try to help get Re-fitted or something before spending money on new pedals. How hard is it to keep up the speedplay pedals maintenance wise? I've been reading online a lot that you have to grease them and can't walk on them and this and that.


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## AndrwSwitch (May 28, 2009)

Walking on Speedplay cleats sucks. For me, it's a compromise that's worth it, especially since I bought some cleat covers for them. That makes it much easier.

Maintaining is very easy. They don't need to be greased any more than other pedals, IME. That they make it easy to regrease them is a bonus, because all pedals need that sooner or later. I have to grease mine fairly regularly now, but I bought them secondhand in 2000. Really, they're overdue for either new bearings or the trash. I think that fifteen years (or so) is not a bad run.


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## MMinSC (Nov 19, 2011)

Go get a fitting. The scatter shot approach your Doc is espousing is no good for anyone...


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## JAG410 (Oct 28, 2008)

MMinSC said:


> Go get a fitting. The scatter shot approach your Doc is espousing is no good for anyone...


+1. Get a thorough, complete fitting. I bet you'll find the root of your problems.


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## darwinosx (Oct 12, 2010)

I've been riding clip less pedals since the original looks in 1984. I've had two surgeries on my left know, one in 1988 and one a year ago. Despite multiple fittings from high end fit gurus I could never get Shimano cleats right. The 6% float is highly misleading. First there is pretty much no lateral float and what little there is is lost if the cleats twist left or right. They are also self recentering to a certain degree.
I've been using Times for awhile now and they are better but still self-recentering which I don't like and I think hurts my knee.
I finally tried Speedplays. I wasn't that interested initially because I also use a mega shoe in a size 48 and that platform seems so small. They also require your cleats to be setup just right and significant maintenance. But what they say about the cleat being the platform turns out to be true and my fitter also put spacers on each pedal to give me a wider stance as I am a big guy.
Anyway I experienced immediate relief with Speedplay Zeroes. I use the full 15 degrees, easy in and out, and no more sore left knee. Pretty amazing really. I do not get the skating on ice feeling and my knees like going wherever they want.



saleenboy818 said:


> I have been riding 105's Spd-sl's for about a year now and everything is fine. Except for the following problems.
> 
> I have sidi mega shoes due to the right side of my foot getting numb on rides really fast. They put a shim on the cleat but i dont think it helped much.
> 
> ...


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## DrD (Feb 5, 2000)

there are also insoles (like the Specialized BG ones) which come with shims that allow you to play with the angle of the sole - that might help... hard to say - I'd recommend having a reliable bike fitter see what they think might help. If it's the narrow float, Speedplays definitely fix that, but it's an expensive thing to try if you aren't sure... maybe watch craigslist and see if an inexpensive set comes around, or see if the lbs will let you demo a set for a week or two... I have been running Speedplay X2 pedals for a good 14 years and love them, but I didn't switch to them due to knee pain. (I had been running SPD pedals before that, and pulled my foot out while hopping an expansion joint on a bridge at speed - I didn't go down, but it freaked me out enough that I wanted a pedal design where that couldn't happen, such as the X series) - the zero sounds pretty interesting, but it wasn't out yet when I bought mine, and Ive had no reason to switch.


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## jorgy (Oct 21, 2005)

My knees like my Speedplay X2s. Tried a set of Ultegra SPD-SLs and my knees HATED them. 6 degrees of float is nothing compared to the 22 degrees you get with Speedplay. I have never had any issues of unclipping when I didn't want to or being able to unclip when I did want to. And clipping in and out is just effortless, especially compared to the torque I needed to use to unclip from the SPD-SLs.


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## AZ.MTNS (Jun 29, 2009)

I had to wedge my cleats to get rid of knee pain. After multiple fittings and using both Shimano and Speedplay pedals a Podiatrist pointed out that my under pronation suggested to him that wedging the cleat to roll my foot outwards would probably offer some relief. Simple but effective in my case. The Speedplay Master kit contains wedges and shims to aid with fine tuning.


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## RRRoubaix (Aug 27, 2008)

JAG410 said:


> +1. Get a thorough, complete fitting. I bet you'll find the root of your problems.


+2.
And DON'T Skimp! A bargain fit is no bargain. You need a very competent bike fitter to help solve your problem.


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## darwinosx (Oct 12, 2010)

The basic Speedplays are around $125 and be easily found on eBay used. Seems like a lot of people try them and decide against them. My guess is they didn't get the cleat setup right which is finicky. That whole varus wedge thing with the Specialized shoes doesn't make sense to me and most fitters I talk to don't like it either. It presumes you need their angle and it complicates shims. After riding Speedplays for a week or so my usual knee issues are flat out gone. This is pretty amazing to me because my left knee is pretty trashed. I was used to icing my knee all the time and taking ibuprofen. I use the full 15 degree float and it feels fantastic.


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## Al1943 (Jun 23, 2003)

My old arthritic knees have been through 5 surgeries, mostly for kneecap alignment problems. Speed play X-1 pedals work very well for me. I prefer the full float range. With the X-series pedals you an engage and release at any float angle very quickly. The X-1 pedals are the lightest with the shortest spindles and best ground clearance in a high speed turn. The X-2 pedals have slightly longer stainless steel spindles and are probably the best dollar value for a serious rider. 
I've ridden X-1 Speedpiays for more than 10 years.


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## DrD (Feb 5, 2000)

^^^
for spindle lengths, you can also get them longer from the factory if you want - they go in 1/8" increments, iirc. (mine are 1/8 or 1/4" longer - I forget which)


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## darwinosx (Oct 12, 2010)

The longest spindle length they make is not long enough for me which is why I have 25mm spacers on each side.


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## jta (Jun 27, 2012)

*Time iClics*

Had the same problem as the original poster, except with Ultegra SPD-SLs. Tried everything: Q factor, saddle height, cleat angle, etc., but the friction float and leverage needed to get out of the pedals just killed my knees. 

Looked into Speedplays as well, but the thing that put me off them was the maintenance - seems they don't tolerate dirt well. The replacement cleats are expensive and heavy - anything you gain in weight savings in the pedal is added back into the cleats. 

So I settled on Time iClic racers - solved the knee issues, very easy in and out, light and durable. I have two sets for both of my road bikes with zero issues. Roughly 4000 miles on one set, 1500 miles on another. Original set of cleats wore out quickly, which was a complaint I read about early, but replacements seem to be more durable.


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## darwinosx (Oct 12, 2010)

I used Time Equipes through the 90's and both the iClics and iClic 2's recently. Times are better for my knees than Shimano's despite the many fits I had with Shimano's. But the self recentering of Time's bugged me and I had a feeling they were causing issues with my knees. Since I switched to Speedplays I am completely convinced this was true plus the Speedplays give me much better unrestricted float. IClics cleats are not exactly cheap either, I really doubt the weight difference between the two is significant unless you are a serious weight weenie. The Ultegras you were using before are not exactly light weights. Yes Speedplays require significantly more maintenance but my knees are worth it. Not everyones knee problems are the same of course so your mileage may vary.


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## jta (Jun 27, 2012)

Narrowed my choices down to Speedplay and the iclics based on my needs. Would've gone with Speedplay if I didn't go with the iclics - they most likely would've served me well, too. Just documented the factors that played into my decision making and real-world experience with the iclics. Really can't argue with all of the adjustability that Speedplay has to offer.


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