# Roubaix currently,would adding a Tarmac make sense ?



## Devastazione (Dec 8, 2011)

I've been enjoying immensely my Roubaix lately ('12 Expert,all stock),but I have a feeling that while without a doubt it's a smooth and relaxing bike I feel like I'm missing something I do love best on a bike : speed,speed and even more speed. Given the geometry and the compact it's actually impossible to pass the 60Km/h mark. Now again,I'm not complaining about the bike,still I'm looking to that extra stiffness and nervous feeling and a bike able to unleash on the road every single push of the pedal. 
Consider that :
1) I don't race ( or at least not yet,but not in my plans).
2) my rides are generally between 2 and 4 hours long,when 2 hours long I really love to keep a race pace.
3) roads in my area : up and down all the way.

Should I just consider some upgrades for my Roubaix before investing in another bike ? ( wich would require at least my Stumpy to go)


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## Salsa_Lover (Jul 6, 2008)

In a word : no


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## RJP Diver (Jul 2, 2010)

Devastazione said:


> Given the geometry and the compact it's actually impossible to pass the 60Km/h mark.


Yeah... it's the geometry and frame type that's holding you back.

:thumbsup:


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## Devastazione (Dec 8, 2011)

RJP Diver said:


> Yeah... it's the geometry and frame type that's holding you back.
> 
> :thumbsup:


right...well..I don't like the compact then..


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## steel515 (Sep 6, 2004)

consider bigger gears, like 39/53 (or higher cassette)


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## roadworthy (Nov 11, 2011)

Pretty funny. There is nothing between the bikes in speed. You may or may not be faster on a Tarmac...depends if the more aggressive position robs watts based upon your flexibility...or reduces drag because you are set up a bit more aero.
The bikes both have about the same stiffness and weight...or close enough for the non elite racer. I have a Cat 2 friend that races a Roubaix.
So what's the diff? Aside from riding position which may or may not improve your speed...handling. The great ride of the Roubaix is a function of its longer wheelbase and more laid out angles which attenuate road shock more effectively. There is considerable irony in that a less quick handling bike with smoother ride feels slower....but it is feel only that separates the two in speed. The Roubaix will be a faster bike in fact over rough road.


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## RJP Diver (Jul 2, 2010)

Devastazione said:


> right...well..I don't like the compact then..


Cool - any reason to justify a new bike purchase!

:thumbsup:


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## PJ352 (Dec 5, 2007)

Consistent with what many others have offered, if it's speed you're looking for, upgrade the motor. Roubaix's wins on the pro circuit speak for its speed capabilities, but as has been noted, if quicker _handling_ is your goal, geo consistent with the Tarmacs will get you that.

Bottom line, assuming you're not a bike collector (as in, n+1) IMO it's important that your expectations realistically reflect a bikes capabilities/ limitations and how they play into your real world riding conditions.

My vote? Keep what you have and 'upgrade' your 25c's to 23c's. Doing so will lower trail by about 1mm and quicken handling. And yes, that was an overstatement. :wink5:


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## NJBiker72 (Jul 9, 2011)

Devastazione said:


> I've been enjoying immensely my Roubaix lately ('12 Expert,all stock),but I have a feeling that while without a doubt it's a smooth and relaxing bike I feel like I'm missing something I do love best on a bike : speed,speed and even more speed. Given the geometry and the compact it's actually impossible to pass the 60Km/h mark. Now again,I'm not complaining about the bike,still I'm looking to that extra stiffness and nervous feeling and a bike able to unleash on the road every single push of the pedal.
> Consider that :
> 1) I don't race ( or at least not yet,but not in my plans).
> 2) my rides are generally between 2 and 4 hours long,when 2 hours long I really love to keep a race pace.
> ...


Very very different bikes IMO.

Have a Secteur which was my first real road bike. Always thought I would upgrade to a Roubaix someday. Long story short after testing a few bikes, including the Roubaix, I ended up on the Tarmac Pro. 

The Tarmac is fast and responsive. The Roubaix relaxed and comfortable. IMO, the difference was bigger than with the other brands I looked at (Canondale, Cervelo, Giant, and Trek), in that a Roubaix -> Tarmac was a more noticeable difference (on both ends) than a say Defy -> TCR or Synapse -> Super SIx.

That said, what do you plan to do with the Roubaix? I was going to sell the Secteur but after looking at what I would get back, decided to put bigger (28) tires and keep it as a winter/gravel/rain bike. We'll see. Currently both have 23's and I only ride the Secteur if roads are bad.


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## Lick Skillet (Aug 21, 2011)

Man up - Tarmac S-works with standard crank


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## ianho (May 20, 2011)

Since u already have a comfort bike in the Roubaix, go for all out speed n get a Venge. That is what I did n have no regrets.


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## Scott in MD (Jun 24, 2008)

(deleted rude comment) 

OK. I am sincerely sorry for that rude response. Why not just drop your stem 2 spacers and switch to 23m tires? This would save about hmmmm 4 grand that you could use to fund your IRA or .... pick up a Shiv time trial bike which really would be different from your Roubaix.

(Were you drinking when you posted this or really serious?)


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## DonDenver (May 30, 2007)

OP; please read again roadworthy and PJ352 posts. The answer found there IMO.

FWIW; I've had the good fortune and a friendly LBS to be able to ride various SL versions since '09 of both Tarmac and Roubaix using all kinds of combinations of gearing, wheels and tires. My testing track is always the local Deer Creek Challenge Century course (you can google it to find the course discription).

I'll ride this course with friends on Parlee, Orbea, Pinn, Giant, Trek, Moot, BMC, Cerv as well as a host of Tarmac's and Roubaix's. Again, all bikes I'm referencing are all "current" technology.

My empirical findings...NOBODY is faster due to a *bike* swap or upgrade but all have benefited measurably from professional fitting including shoes and shims and secondarily gearing changes to better match their general purpose riding.

For me, I have found I'm measurably faster on my '10 Roubaix Sworks SL 2 (compact, no spacers -16 stem) than for example the '12 Tarmac Pro SL4 mid compact (52/36) on the course.

Further, my take is while many would have you believe so, all the techno geo stuff betwixt Tarmac and Roubaix's means nothing regarding measurable speed as a frame goes. It's what frame best fits you and suits our potential and not the marketing stuff that has been ground into our "speak".

So...don't get rid of good ol Stumpy just yet, but if you can find a way to get a stopwatch on as close to equally equipped frames and wheels. Of course, all else being equal and you want a change...and a new change to make you *feel* faster...do it :thumbsup:


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## Devastazione (Dec 8, 2011)

DonDenver said:


> Of course, all else being equal and you want a change...and a new change to make you *feel* faster...do it :thumbsup:


Spot on :thumbsup: It may just be the need of "feeling" faster.

Great answers and advices everyone,thanks,I appreciate :thumbsup:


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## roadworthy (Nov 11, 2011)

DonDenver said:


> OP; please read again roadworthy and PJ352 posts. The answer found there IMO.
> 
> FWIW; I've had the good fortune and a friendly LBS to be able to ride various SL versions since '09 of both Tarmac and Roubaix using all kinds of combinations of gearing, wheels and tires. My testing track is always the local Deer Creek Challenge Century course (you can google it to find the course discription).
> 
> ...


Great post Don. You are a man that knows the truth. The clock doesn't lie and feel is elusive. Fit is king when it comes to both comfort and speed.
I started a thread a while back comparing the Roubaix and Tarmac and added a link about a guy that lived with both bikes for a month and timed each against the clock with a lot of climbing. There was virtually nothing between the bikes. He had his bars set about 1/2" lower or so on the Tarmac but three pts. of contact were almost the same. Further, although each bike felt different, he literally couldn't decide between the two...liked them both. My personal opinion for the amateur is...buy the bike that feels the best and suits your riding position the best. As an older but still spirited rider, the Roubaix fits this bill the best for me. For somebody else, it will be a Tarmac. Just don't expect a speed difference between the two...or even between any of the great bikes you mention...Cervelo, Trek, Look, Giant...to me there is no fastest bike among them...comes down to the engine.


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## metoou2 (Mar 18, 2009)

Consider the source of the advice you are receiving. A bunch of guys who would rather buy a new bike than put money into a car in bad need of repair. Guys who would eat Ramen noodles and peanut butter sandwiches so they can save up for that new crankset.
Guys tapping away at a key board discussing bike related issues while a bike race plays on the other browser tab they have open with Verses playing on the t.v. behind them. Guys shaving their legs because it just feel so much faster.
Should you buy a new Tarmac............... absolutely!


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## Devastazione (Dec 8, 2011)

metoou2 said:


> Consider the source of the advice you are receiving. A bunch of guys who would rather buy a new bike than put money into a car in bad need of repair. Guys who would eat Ramen noodles and peanut butter sandwiches so they can save up for that new crankset.
> Guys tapping away at a key board discussing bike related issues while a bike race plays on the other browser tab they have open with Verses playing on the t.v. behind them. Guys shaving their legs because it just feel so much faster.
> Should you buy a new Tarmac............... absolutely!


Well that's pretty much me,6 bikes in 2 years is pretty bad  
Haven't shave my legs yet tho.....:blush2:


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## metoou2 (Mar 18, 2009)

Devastazione said:


> Well that's pretty much me,6 bikes in 2 years is pretty bad
> Haven't shave my legs yet tho.....:blush2:


Okey dokey, then your new name is "Hairy".............now get out that razor.


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## NJBiker72 (Jul 9, 2011)

Devastazione said:


> Well that's pretty much me,6 bikes in 2 years is pretty bad
> Haven't shave my legs yet tho.....:blush2:


3 bikes in 3 years and still have my hair too.


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## PJ352 (Dec 5, 2007)

DonDenver said:


> My empirical findings...NOBODY is faster due to a *bike* swap or upgrade but* all have benefited measurably from professional fitting* including shoes and shims and secondarily *gearing changes to better match their general purpose riding*.


Excellent additions to the discussion, Don. :thumbsup:

If the OP (or anyone else, for that matter) is seeking improved performance/ speed gains, in conjunction with 'tuning' the motor, odds are good that finding their optimal fit will better the odds of attaining those goals. And gearing matched to a riders fitness and terrain will (at minimum) promote smoothing the pedal stroke and saving the knees. All important aspects of cycling, IMO/E.


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## RkFast (Dec 11, 2004)

Wait a second.....its not about the bike? Then all that stuff about "feeling so fast" in the Venge threads is poppycock?


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## diegogarcia (Apr 29, 2010)

Interesting thread and a very good read.

I have over the years pretty much had and tried all gearing ratios as well as bikes.

I have run 50/34, 52/36 and 53/39.

All times seem and end up being the same, but different parts of my loop are ridden differently. Earlier out on the Venge I held 20 mph for 4 miles into a head wind 53/39 with 12/25 on the back but it does fatigue you quicker. I climbed 52/25 today as well and got up it no problem despite the Venge not being a 'climbing' bike.

As others have said, the fit is the key and finding a bike that suits you is ideal too. I can ride with a slammed stem on the Venge, but have a 110mm stem with 10mm spacer and can happily ride on the drops. When I test ride a Roubaix, I cant ride it as well, it is too high, but that is the frame that would actually suit my skill set as I am rubbish at descending at speed on short wheel base bikes....

Currently, based on how and what I ride a go to set up would be SL4, 52/36 and 12/25 on the back.


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## oldskoolm4 (Mar 14, 2009)

I was stuck between the two when looking to add a carbon road bike to the stable. Both bikes felt great, but it was the little differences between the two that led me to the Tarmac. I like the more aggressive handling and position. I'm an all around type of rider (race BMX and MTB) so I got a bike I felt I could grow into. I had an Allez before this.
Would I own both a Roubaix and Tarmac? Neh. You can change up a few things and find what your looking for. If I was going to own two road bikes I'd pick up a CX bike. No sense (unless you just want to or just loaded) in my opinion of owning two similar bikes.


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## Chris-X (Aug 4, 2011)

RkFast said:


> Wait a second.....its not about the bike? Then all that stuff about "feeling so fast" in the Venge threads is poppycock?


Affirmative.


To the OP. If you want to "feel" faster, pump your tires to >140psi. :idea:

And getting a new bike makes no sense.


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## Salsa_Lover (Jul 6, 2008)

It is actually very simple.

To go faster you just have to turn the pedals faster and/or on a bigger gear, and put your back lower. :thumbsup:


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## NJBiker72 (Jul 9, 2011)

Chris-X said:


> Affirmative.
> 
> 
> To the OP. If you want to "feel" faster, pump your tires to >140psi. :idea:
> ...


How's your Huffy?


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## Chris-X (Aug 4, 2011)

Salsa_Lover said:


> It is actually very simple.
> 
> To go faster you just have to turn the pedals faster and/or on a bigger gear, and put your back lower. :thumbsup:


You can speak slowly and talk to them like they're idiots but for some reason the message isn't getting through.



NJBiker72 said:


> How's your Huffy?


My Huffy has a Ferrari engine!

It's a testarossa but I'm working on it and the performance is still good.:thumbsup:

Actually I'm riding an S-Works Roubaix Sl 2 but I think I'd be just as happy on the Secteur. I liked that orangy and white one; I have the Quick Step Roubaix which isn't as flashy.

Anyway, I just think the hype and marketing is ah,,,funny, and expensive bikes are a waste of money.

I just saw a Look 481 go for $700 on ebay for a complete bike. How do you beat that?

Bottom line, if you like flashy expensive stuff, it's all good, but to think there are meaningful performance gains is delusional.

The one huge area for performance differences is tire pressure and size and we've seen the thinking there.


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## NJBiker72 (Jul 9, 2011)

Chris-X said:


> You can speak slowly and talk to them like they're idiots but for some reason the message isn't getting through.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I was just having some fun with you. I do agree the Roubaix/Secteur difference did not seem significant. The Tarmac did. Just my opinion and yes I did get the Pro partially because I liked the look of it way more than the Expert (also preferred the SRAM to Shimano).

And let's not turn this into one of the 3 dozen tire debates.


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## Chris-X (Aug 4, 2011)

NJBiker72 said:


> I was just having some fun with you. I do agree the Roubaix/Secteur difference did not seem significant. The Tarmac did. Just my opinion and yes I did get the Pro partially because I liked the look of it way more than the Expert (also preferred the SRAM to Shimano).
> 
> *And let's not turn this into one of the 3 dozen tire debates*.


Yeah, I know..

I was just trying to give the OP a logical answer. The tires are THE most important issue and there is no debate except amongst those ignorant of the facts.. 

If you're JRA why would anyone care about speed differences well under a half a mph?

I think the biggest difference between the plush bikes and the race bikes is weight distribution because of longer wheelbase and slacker geometry. No hands riding is more stable on a race bike with slightly more weight over the front wheel. I'm more careful when I take my hands off the bars on the Roubaix because the front end is more susceptible to the wind.


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## NJBiker72 (Jul 9, 2011)

Chris-X said:


> Yeah, I know..
> 
> I was just trying to give the OP a logical answer. The tires are THE most important issue and there is no debate except amongst those ignorant of the facts..
> 
> ...


Never thought about hands free but I felt the difference on hills. I know tests do not back that up, but it was much easier climbing on the Tarmac.


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## Skeletor (Sep 21, 2005)

Devastazione said:


> I've been enjoying immensely my Roubaix lately ('12 Expert,all stock),but I have a feeling that while without a doubt it's a smooth and relaxing bike I feel like I'm missing something I do love best on a bike : speed,speed and even more speed. Given the geometry and the compact it's actually impossible to pass the 60Km/h mark. Now again,I'm not complaining about the bike,still I'm looking to that extra stiffness and nervous feeling and a bike able to unleash on the road every single push of the pedal.
> Consider that :
> 1) I don't race ( or at least not yet,but not in my plans).
> 2) my rides are generally between 2 and 4 hours long,when 2 hours long I really love to keep a race pace.
> ...


This would be my answer, I have an Tarmac SL4 S-Works. It's my race bike this year and my first impressions were, "WOW, this is a kick-azz race bike!" The harder I ride it the more I like it but it is definitely not a bike for a casual non-racer IMHO. Now, you say you like to hammer on your rides and I assume try to punish your riding buddies at every possibly chance so with that, I would think the Tarmac would be better for you than the Roubaix. It's a bike that is designed to be ridden HARD and I personally don't think it's all that much more comfortable (i.e. "compliant") than the Italian aluminum frames I came off of. It's just a lot lighter and somewhat stiffer to it responds much better when you drop the hammer....:thumbsup:

I love mine.


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