# Madone woes....



## nor_cal_rider (Dec 18, 2006)

I have a 2008 5.2 Madone that I got in late October 07 and has been a great ride, but is showing some signs of problems. First off, I am a 42 year old male weighing around 150-155 lbs, and I DO NOT race. I would classify myself as a recreational/fitness rider that averages around 150-175 miles per week on rural Northern Cali chip sealed roads. I live in the foothills and as such tend to climb quite a bit.

Now about the bike....I have just shy of 9300 miles on it and have maintained it religiously - lube & LBS "spa time" (ie tune/check/replace wear parts). About 3k miles ago, I noticed a squeak when pedaling - took it into the LBS and was told the bottom bracket bearings needed to be replaced. Just took it by the shop yesterday to verify a hole I found in the rim is just a drain and not damaged, and the LBS owner checked the crank and told me I needed bearing again, but this time was going to order a special new set designed for climbing. Hmm....I don't tend to stand/stomp when riding - just shift to an appropriate gear and spin my way up the climbs. Seemed strange to me and had me wondering if I had chose the wrong bike for my use.

Then the LBS owner looks more closely at the rear wheel and finds a hairline crack. He states he'll contact Trek about a warrenty replacement. Ok, however this is the 2rd rear rim that has cracked and had one replaced due to a defective hub. These are the stock Race Lites, and have been checked for spoke tension and "trueness" each time the bike has been at the LBS. Seems to me that Trek/Bontrager might have QC problems with this many replacements in 18 months of riding??

So - anyone else have any problems with their Madone? I'm starting to think I'll save my pennies and go for a second (third if you cound the old Gitane I use for my trainer) bike to save the wear on my Madone. Mainly I'm concerned that I might find other problems when out on a rural ride (I love supported and unsupported centuires), that could potentially leave me stranded or worse (injured). As a minimum, I'm purchasing another set of rims - as I lost confidence in Bontrager RL's.

Bruce in Redding, CA
Future Moots rider?


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## WhyRun (Dec 29, 2008)

I'm not a fan of the RL wheels either, but i wouldn't blame the bike. A fair number of the low end treks have subpart components to keep the price lower. I would upgrade the components first...


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## nor_cal_rider (Dec 18, 2006)

WhyRun said:


> I'm not a fan of the RL wheels either, but i wouldn't blame the bike. A fair number of the low end treks have subpart components to keep the price lower. I would upgrade the components first...


I guess I didn't really consider the 5.2 a "low end" bike. Yea, it's not a 6.5 Pro model, but it's still an Ultegra SL spec'ed bike that retailed for $3300 (now closer to $4k). Also - I have not herd of similar type of problems on the same level of C-Dale or Spez Tarmacs.

FWIW - this is not the first problem I have read about with Madones and the bottom bracket. Might be a problem to look into.

Bottomline - I probably won't sell the bike, but will look at various "upgrades" that can/will transfer over to anything else I decide to buy/build. Just too bad for Trek, as I was having a tough time deciding between a P1 Madone or a Ti framed bike for a 2nd bike. This has made my decision much easier.


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## Stogaguy (Feb 11, 2006)

*Not normal wear & tear*

None of this sounds normal to me. At your weight and described usage pattern, equipment should be holding up better.

The BB issue may be due to improper alignment of the BB shell faces and/or threads. Have the shop pull the BB completely and check the BB shell for alignment of the faces and threads. If not within spec, they should "chase and face" it. If the threads are not properly aligned they should warranty your frame as this is a clear manufacturing defect and there is no way to fix it.

IMHO, the cracking rims are just wrong. Trek should warranty these.

BTY, I agree that your 5.2 is not a low end bike. At that price level you should be getting very solid durable equipment.


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## parker3375 (May 6, 2008)

*Ehhh*

These problems all sound a little familiar. Trek did a service bulletin on the early released (08) Madones last year about some of the bearings going bad prematurely so you should mention this to the Trek dealer that you are dealing with. Trek has also had problems with the Race Lite wheels because some people have been able to tear them apart it seems under normal riding conditions. Again, these are both problems that shouldn't be costing you anything as Trek has put out service bulletin updates on their dealer only website for months. I would talk to your shop and see what these climbing bb bearings are all about. I've never heard of such a thing especially because the only options for the madone bb are stock trek stuff or ceramic upgrades as far as I know.


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## WhyRun (Dec 29, 2008)

trek uses cheaper components where possible to keep prices down its a pretty basic fact. For example, you probably have a 105 cassette because its a bit cheaper than the ultegra. Even the 5.5 has RL wheels to keep the price down in the affordable range. Infact i believe the 5.5 uses bonty brakes rather than those that match the kit. its cost savings measures. no offense meant...


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## sabre104 (Dec 14, 2006)

No such thing as " climbing bearings". Sounds like your LBS is BS'ing you. Find another Trek dealer if you can too see what they say.
You can't chase a new madone as they do not have threads in the botton bracket. the bearings simply pop in.


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## dave_gt (Jul 25, 2008)

The Madone 5.2 is definitely NOT a "low end" Trek bicycle!


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## zac (Aug 5, 2005)

nor_cal_rider said:


> I have a 2008 5.2 Madone that I got in late October 07 and has been a great ride, but is showing some signs of problems. First off, I am a 42 year old male weighing around 150-155 lbs, and I DO NOT race. I would classify myself as a recreational/fitness rider that averages around 150-175 miles per week on rural Northern Cali chip sealed roads. I live in the foothills and as such tend to climb quite a bit.
> 
> Now about the bike....I have just shy of 9300 miles on it and have maintained it religiously - lube & LBS "spa time" (ie tune/check/replace wear parts). About 3k miles ago, I noticed a squeak when pedaling - took it into the LBS and was told the bottom bracket bearings needed to be replaced. Just took it by the shop yesterday to verify a hole I found in the rim is just a drain and not damaged, and the LBS owner checked the crank and told me I needed bearing again, but this time was going to order a special new set designed for climbing. Hmm....I don't tend to stand/stomp when riding - just shift to an appropriate gear and spin my way up the climbs. Seemed strange to me and had me wondering if I had chose the wrong bike for my use.
> 
> ...


Bruce don't be too down on the bike. You sound like a high milage rider, who cares for his equipment. That being said, you got 6000 miles on a set of disposable bearings. The BB bearings are meant to be replaced when compromised. They are indeed very easy to replace and very inexpensive to do so. ~$15/set and about 5 minutes of your time. As to the 3k miles on the second set and the comment that they are going to be ordering "climbing bearings." I would tend to think they may have meant ceramic bearings, which are supposedly a bit more resistant to failure (corrosion) than a steel set. The standard set of bearing for your Madone are Endurø. Endurø likewise makes the Xero which is a hybrid ceramic set with extra hardened races. I was also going to go that route after having gone through a couple sets of bearings, but all in all, at $15 a set, I get about a half year on a set, and really don't know how long the ceramics will last. But at $80/set for the ceramics, I doubt they will last 5x longer. 

The wheelset, well what can I say. I also had a crack in my RXL wheels and it was replaced without question by Trek. The Bontrager alloy Race series wheels (R, RL, and RXL) have had issues, no doubt, both to the hubs and now apparently the rims. Even the RXXXL oclv wheels had hub problems a few years ago. I would say about the only good thing about these wheels is that they come with a 5 year warranty that you don't have to pay extra for (eg. Mavic's MP3 or Reynold's RAP programs). 

Don't get me wrong, I am not trying to diminish your experiences, but at least for me when I ride a bike hard, I expect maintenance issues (eg. bearing failure, adjustments, breakage, etc.) Take your issues as a sign that you are riding your 5.2 to its expected and intended design. :thumbsup: 

zac


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## nor_cal_rider (Dec 18, 2006)

Zac - 
I don't mind the maintenance or wear parts....I replace the chain and RD cable with every rear tire (especially since the STI brifters seem to eat the cables on a regular basis), plan for a new cassette every 8-10k, and bring the bike to the shop for a check/tune/repair every 2k (+/-) miles. I do mind the repetitive failures of the rims and no attempt to upgrade or resolve the problem. I also mind the potential problem with the bottom bracket, as Trek has issued the Service Bulletin and Customer Service was contacted the last time the bearing were replaced, but they failed to mention of any other potential causes of this problem (other than asking if I ride in steady rains - ie point blame elsewhere). And, FWIW, I paid for the bearing replacement as well as the loss of a paid ride event last Fall when the hub failed and had to be shipped back to Trek before they would ship a new one.

I'm sure this is not the "norm" for Treks, but it causes them bad publicity when a high mileage/light weight rider has this many problems in 18 months of ownership. I find it hard to believe that I'm putting anywhere near the wear/use on my bike that is designed for - let alone what the pro's do to their bikes.

Just venting....


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## joep721 (May 4, 2009)

nor_cal_rider said:


> I'm sure this is not the "norm" for Treks, but it causes them bad publicity when a high mileage/light weight rider has this many problems in 18 months of ownership. I find it hard to believe that I'm putting anywhere near the wear/use on my bike that is designed for - let alone what the pro's do to their bikes.
> 
> Just venting....


I've been pondering getting an '08 5.2 but these discussions about wheel and BB problems has me wondering. I would think that Trek wants these problems put to bed. It isn't good and for me it's putting a pause in my decision.


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## messyparrot (Sep 17, 2007)

I have had many more issues with my bikes parts (not a Trek) that has only 2K on it.

Your problems don't sound super bad to me to be honest.


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## zac (Aug 5, 2005)

nor_cal_rider said:


> Zac -
> I don't mind the maintenance or wear parts....I replace the chain and RD cable with every rear tire (especially since the STI brifters seem to eat the cables on a regular basis), plan for a new cassette every 8-10k, and bring the bike to the shop for a check/tune/repair every 2k (+/-) miles. I do mind the repetitive failures of the rims and no attempt to upgrade or resolve the problem. I also mind the potential problem with the bottom bracket, as Trek has issued the Service Bulletin and Customer Service was contacted the last time the bearing were replaced, but they failed to mention of any other potential causes of this problem (other than asking if I ride in steady rains - ie point blame elsewhere). And, FWIW, I paid for the bearing replacement as well as the loss of a paid ride event last Fall when the hub failed and had to be shipped back to Trek before they would ship a new one.
> 
> I'm sure this is not the "norm" for Treks, but it causes them bad publicity when a high mileage/light weight rider has this many problems in 18 months of ownership. I find it hard to believe that I'm putting anywhere near the wear/use on my bike that is designed for - let alone what the pro's do to their bikes.
> ...


I understand.

FWIW, someone with the number of miles you are riding should probably have a backup ride or two, and another set of wheels. Just makes life a bit less stressful knowing that you have spares. 

Good luck
zac


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## zac (Aug 5, 2005)

nor_cal_rider said:


> Zac -
> I don't mind the maintenance or wear parts....I replace the chain and RD cable with every rear tire (especially since the STI brifters seem to eat the cables on a regular basis), plan for a new cassette every 8-10k, and bring the bike to the shop for a check/tune/repair every 2k (+/-) miles. I do mind the repetitive failures of the rims and no attempt to upgrade or resolve the problem. I also mind the potential problem with the bottom bracket, as Trek has issued the Service Bulletin and Customer Service was contacted the last time the bearing were replaced, but they failed to mention of any other potential causes of this problem (other than asking if I ride in steady rains - ie point blame elsewhere). And, FWIW, I paid for the bearing replacement as well as the loss of a paid ride event last Fall when the hub failed and had to be shipped back to Trek before they would ship a new one.
> 
> I'm sure this is not the "norm" for Treks, but it causes them bad publicity when a high mileage/light weight rider has this many problems in 18 months of ownership. I find it hard to believe that I'm putting anywhere near the wear/use on my bike that is designed for - let alone what the pro's do to their bikes.
> ...


Just a side note too, as to the potential bottom bracket problem. As you know there are a couple of threads about this on this very board. I see 3 or 4 main issues regarding this:

1) I think riding wet is going to remain a problem on the "new" Madones until Trek gets better seals in that area. I have resigned myself to this particular issue, and am now doing full disassembles on wet rides. 

2) I also think that BB bearing service is going to be more frequent on these bikes. I sort of knew this going in and recall a conversation I had with my LBS back in October '07 about the design. However, I look at this as a trade off for ease of service and real inexpense of necessary parts. So for me at least, I don't mind.

3) Improper bearing/crank/spindle installation. I wont go into detail, but I truly think that mechanics have to be very careful when servicing this area. It is a high precision area and must be treated as such. I have also found that post BB/crank/spindle service, since there is no preload necessary when installing the bearings, that it is advisable to do the initial install, then go for a ride, then reset the cranks on the spindle. This gives the bearings a chance to work themselves into place and eliminates any remaining play, however minute, in the system after the initial install. I have played around with this and found this to work pretty well.

4) Compromised BB sockets. There seems to be an unresolved occurrence of either malformed sockets, or improperly installed bearings leading to socket damage (related to number 3), that thereafter has caused ongoing and continued problems in the BB.

Who knows what the future holds, Trek has a lifetime warranty on the frame. If this area fails to the extent that it cannot hold the spindle properly, then I would fully expect that Trek will have to deal with it. I have significantly more miles on my Madone, and so far just the usual maintenance issues have occurred.

zac


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## jsedlak (Jun 17, 2008)

WhyRun said:


> trek uses cheaper components where possible to keep prices down its a pretty basic fact. For example, you probably have a 105 cassette because its a bit cheaper than the ultegra. Even the 5.5 has RL wheels to keep the price down in the affordable range. Infact i believe the 5.5 uses bonty brakes rather than those that match the kit. its cost savings measures. no offense meant...


 

Have no idea what this post has to do with the topic.... but my 5.2 is (was?) listed as having a 105 cassette but it came with an Ultegra. kthxbai.


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## gman3 (Jun 1, 2009)

Zac
Probably a stupid newbie question but could you give a detailed description of how to remove the bb bearings on the Madone and reinstall? When my replacement frame is in I plan on adding this to my usual maintenance. Are there specific torque settings involved?
TIA


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## C Dunlop (Feb 28, 2009)

zac said:


> FWIW, someone with the number of miles you are riding should probably have a backup ride or two, and another set of wheels. Just makes life a bit less stressful knowing that you have spares.


Negative. With routine maintainance and care, for someone that doesn't race and especially for a lighter rider, there is no need. As a matter of principle, BB's should not be self destructing, nor should other non-dispensable parts. I can understand a pair of event only wheels for the racer boys, but have always thought 'spare bikes' nothing more than fetishism. Sure, everything has a usage limit, but I don't think that this demands keeping thousands of dollars of spares just for the sake of peace of mind. Just my $0.02.


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## nor_cal_rider (Dec 18, 2006)

C Dunlop - the main reason I agree with getting a spare set of wheels is that I ride in organized/supported century (and thinking of 2x) events every other weekend April-October. I prepay for these events, and just last year I had to "eat" the entry fee for one event because my hub failed and Trek wanted it sent back before they would ship a new one. Also - riding maintains my sanity....I work in a HIGH stress job and tend to carry that home more if I am not excersizing during the week. Hence why I call my rides "daily vacations" - I can get away and clear my mind, while working off the stress from the day. Heck - even my boss comes by my office to remind me to go out for my "wednesday lunch ride" becasue she see's a difference in me when I work out, as opposed to if I skip my ride because of a deadline.

So because of these "issues" I'll be purchasing a second set of wheels as a start and probably going to look at getting my next bike sooner than originally planned (wife made me a deal I could get another when I had 20k miles on this one). After talking to several shop owners and mechanics, I'll be getting a Moots or Seven, and keep the Madone for a "different look/feel" - but have the piece of mind that if something breaks or has problems, I have a backup.


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## graveldog (Aug 5, 2008)

*Madone 5.2 2008 performance frame crack*

purchased 2008 Feb have 10,000km (6,500miles). found this crack where the BB and the chainstay joins. Anyone seen this area crack before? I am not happy:cryin: So far TREK rep told my LBS it does not warrant replacement of frame. I am happy with TREK as this is my 5th TREK over the last 12 years. I am 5'8" 165lbs push my bikes hard on the local rides - I am also known as a sprinter within my group. Bike never crashed. Bike always well maintained - you should ask my buddies they say they can eat off the bike as it is always clean and well lubed / oiled to have optimal performance.:mad2: I have contacted TREK Corp in Wisconson to se if they will consider another look at the frame. otherwise I will have to relegate Madone 5.2 to the basement indoor trainer Let me know if anyone else have seen a crack in this area left non drive side chain stay.


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## brentster (Jul 12, 2007)

I know I'D never ride that thing again. Sorry about your bad luck.


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## terbennett (Apr 1, 2006)

dave_gt said:


> The Madone 5.2 is definitely NOT a "low end" Trek bicycle!


+1. The Madone 5.2 is far from low end. Noone would have said that about the Trek 5200 and the Madone 5.2 is it's replacement- a higher level replacement.


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## graveldog (Aug 5, 2008)

TREK wisconson reply;
I showed it to several of our warranty people here and it was agreed that it was a paint crack and that the integrity of the frame has not been compromised. All carbon exhibits some degree of flex, which the paint is unable to match, sometimes causing cracks.
We do warranty all of our paint for a year, so if you purchased your bike less than a year ago, ask your dealer to file another claim. 
They don't address my concern that it is where the BB and chainstay are joined. If I read btwn the lines - S.O.L. until they see more of a crack (aka crash test dummy). I also heard that TREK monitors some of these Forums - I hope they see it as I am willing to share my woes with the cycling community.


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## brentster (Jul 12, 2007)

Well Graveldog, That's pretty disappointing.

It's much easier said than done, but I'd say put some clear nail polish on it to keep it from flaking more and hopefully soon you won't notice it as much.

Sorry about that.


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## Opus51569 (Jul 21, 2009)

Hard to tell from the pic, but to me it almost looks more like a deep scratch than a crack. Like something "keyed" the frame. Can you run a fingernail across it and get a sense of how deep it goes?

Regardless, I don't know if I'd shelve the bike, but I would definitely do a close inspection of that spot before, during (unless you're racing, of course) and after every ride and would shelve it after the first sign of spreading or deepening.


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## MarvinK (Feb 12, 2002)

Take it to another dealer for a second opinion. If it is just a deep scratch, I would still ride it.


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## graveldog (Aug 5, 2008)

yeah if you run your finger nail on it you definitely feel a crack. If it was as simple as a paint srcatch then i would not be pursuing it as much. 
To add inssult to injury last week the rear wheel had a break in the spoke nipple. Due to the low spoke count the wheel tacoed and I had to remove the brake pad / on the road true repair to limp home on a wobbly wheel.


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## laxpower86 (Aug 17, 2009)

Thanks, I have had the same two issues. Trek replaced my Race Lites with Race X Lites. Clearly an upgrade but I'm suspicious because the back un-aligned after about 1,000 miles but this time they were trued. I just exploded the ball bearings on the left side of the crank froze the crank and caused damage to the frame socket. (Luckily I was 3 miles from home and not on my 380 mile journey accross PA last week). The dealer said they had never seen this happen before (said the same thing about the Race Lites).
I weigh 185 and climb a lot and stand a fair amount but I'm 54 and not the stud I used to be SO we have design problems! Bikes in the shop until


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## zac (Aug 5, 2005)

gman3 said:


> Zac
> Probably a stupid newbie question but could you give a detailed description of how to remove the bb bearings on the Madone and reinstall? When my replacement frame is in I plan on adding this to my usual maintenance. Are there specific torque settings involved?
> TIA


gman, sorry I missed this and came across it on a search for something else

See this post in another thread:

http://forums.roadbikereview.com/showpost.php?p=2146847&postcount=6

HTH
zac


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