# Endurance Riding/Training vs Racing Riding/Training



## Tauntonian (Nov 3, 2011)

I believe I am a recreational rider who is attempting to become more of a distance rider (50 miles or more per ride). I was able to put approx.1900 miles on my bikes since the end of July last year. In all my years of riding I never prepared myself (physical conditioning) for the upcoming riding season. Since last July my rides went from an average of 15 miles to 40 or more, longest being 72 miles. I also lost a lot of weight and my energy levels soared. My question is this, do people who ride distance, opposed to racing, prepare the same way for the upcoming riding season? I also want to keep as much of the physical conditioning I was able to obtain from last season.

I bought a cyclops fluid trainer and bought one of Carmichael''s training DVDs. I do get on it twice a week. Maybe I need to be on it more.

How do you people get in riding SHAPE? :idea:


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## Creakyknees (Sep 21, 2003)

short answer: yes.

longer answer: ride more.


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## RussellS (Feb 1, 2010)

The best training for any kind of riding is speed work. Whether that is racing or touring or distance riding. Distance riding being 150-750 mile rides such as multi day brevets. 40-72 miles as you mention is not what I would call distance riding. Speed, speed, speed. Speed helps everything. Endurance, yes. Speed, yes. Strength, yes. If you can ride fast, you can ride far. Ride intervals. Ride with fast groups. Sprint. Concentrate exclusively on speed and the endurance part will take care of itself.


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## KenSmithMT (Feb 17, 2012)

*I agree and disagree.*

I agree and disagree. Speed training helps, but does not do everything. A mix of speed training and endurance training will teach your body to respond to whatever kind of riding you want to do. Speed training alone can cause your body to fall into pattern of using only stored glycogen and ingested carbs for FAST fuel. Your body can only store so much glycogen and can only process 200-400 calories of carbs/hour. Run out of this fuel and you bonk. You need to train it to dig into stored fats for longer burning fuel. Consider splitting your rides 50/50 between speed and endurance. Work on power intervals one day. The next day take a 2-3 hr ride trying to keep your heart rate at around 70%. Throw some intervals in the middle of the long ride to help teach your body to recover while riding. Then take the third day off and go swimming or something. Get that fat engine burning and you will be able to go forever. Also, don't wory too much about how far or fast other riders go. There are some real animals out there who can ride fast forever. Set some goals for yourself and when you reach them, set some higher. I'm similar to you in that I started riding seriously two years ago. Starting from scratch at 10-15 miles at first and worked up to my first century within 6 months which included 6,000 feet of climbing. This past summer (after 18 months of riding) I did my first double century which included more than 8000 feet of climbing. During the clear road season in Montana I now ride 200-250 miles per week with some rolling 50-70 mile rides and some steep 30-50 mile rides. Also included is a good dose of mountain bike riding. My big goal this summer is actually some long 3-4 day mountain bike bikepacking trips with 80-100 mile days back to back. Next summer a 600 mile 7 day mountain bike trip. I like to split my time 50/50 between the road and dirt. During the winter I use a trainer 4-5 days/ week. Hard day, moderate day, day off, repeat. Depending on your personality you might want to check out TheSufferfest dot com. I have all of their training videos as well as a few others. I rotate through them so I don't get bored. It takes me 2 weeks to cycle through them. 
Those are my thoughts. Hope it helps. Bottom line is set some goals and ride for yourself.


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## sunnyboy (Feb 20, 2012)

yes and no.. i am confused


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## KenSmithMT (Feb 17, 2012)

Confused about what...


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## Tauntonian (Nov 3, 2011)

*KenSmithMT ... your ambition is inspiring, endless energy!!!*

:thumbsup:


KenSmithMT said:


> I Consider splitting your rides 50/50 between speed and endurance. Work on power intervals one day. The next day take a 2-3 hr ride trying to keep your heart rate at around 70%. Throw some intervals in the middle of the long ride to help teach your body to recover while riding. Then take the third day off and go swimming or something. Get that fat engine burning and you will be able to go forever. Also, don't wory too much about how far or fast other riders go. There are some real animals out there who can ride fast forever. Set some goals for yourself and when you reach them, set some higher.


Tuesday and Thursday I do "High Intensity Interval Training" for about 45 minutes on my trainer (cyclops fluid). On Wednesday, weather permitting, I jump on my mountain bike for about a hour and a half. On Saturday and Sunday, again weather permmitting, I do approx. 30 mile on my Allex. On my off days, I walk or hike. I have every other Friday off. On my Fridays off I ride either my mountain bike or my road ride.

I'm going to be sixty this coming year and my legs and body sometime complain, so it slows me down a bit. I not out to break any speed or distance records, but I sure would like to be better than I am now.

Thanks for the advice ...not sure I'm doing the 50/50, but I can always change things. What do you think?


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## KenSmithMT (Feb 17, 2012)

Sounds pretty good for a base program. Are you using a heart rate monitor? Making sure you are working in the right cardio zones are key to getting the most out of your workouts. Are your high intensity workouts intervals or flat out for 45 min?


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## Gnarly 928 (Nov 19, 2005)

I'll jump in with some opinions and my own personal experience. I am probably older than you....I am older than most. I've switched to doing more ultra events now rather than normal races. Different stuff. I raced for many many years in regular races but there aren't many for my age category so I have taken to the 12hr enduros and time trials and hillclimbs. 

Endurance riding is quite different from normal racing and it takes a different effort. It's all about eating and drinking properly, metering out your effort to last the distance or time, and not so much about speed. The only way to train for ultra distances, to improve your results over a long distance is to do it and learn how to meter out your effort, to learn what to eat and drink, how hard to ride, etc etc. Going fast and hard...that is great till you die....then you stop or start "soft-pedaling" and everyone you 'dropped' earlier passes you and keeps going for the win....

It's really challenging to 'let someone go' when you know you could stay with em....but if you've learned your capacity over a long race or ride, you will know that sometimes....'slower wins the event'....Many of these events are won by a few miles....or by one person being smart and gutsy enough to stay on the bike for an extra couple of minutes...to give one last effort at 11.5hrs into a 12hr race, or to stay awake and pedaling an extra hour each day on the really long ones...

At the Ultra level, everyone is fit, everyone is strong, some can even go really really fast and hard.....for a bit. But until you go out and do it a few times, you just won't know exactly what works best for your own riding....

Probably didn't help you much...experience has no substitute. My first 12 hr, I rode it like a normal race....and at about 10hrs I began cramping badly and quit riding at 11 hrs......I watched the guys I was "beating" until then keep on going, racking up additional miles and passing me by as I sat there with 'cooked legs'.....Next race I did better, treating it like a true Ultra race....


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## KenSmithMT (Feb 17, 2012)

Good points. Nutrition and pacing yourself is key. 

From the standpoint of general fitness and time constrained training during winter months, a mix of long endurance and short intense ride are good for me. 

I am curious though. The majority of what I have read and heard seems to be geared toward people in the ~20-50 yr age range. I'm 43 and through experimenting I have found what works for my body and my schedule. And I know past fitness habits greatly affect future fitness potential. With all of that being said, is there any difference in what generally works beyond say 50. I know thats a huge generalization, but do intervals work the same for a 30 year old as they do for a 60 year old? Several studies have shown that intervals raise your metabolism long after your workout is over. They are also good for building strength. Not just for the sake of pure speed. Any thoughts? I am assuming that long endurance work has the same benifit regardless of age.

....and of course as always, each body is different and we all need to find out what works for us.


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## Tauntonian (Nov 3, 2011)

*Maybe my intensity isn't what it should be*

*KenSmithMT

Sounds pretty good for a base program. Are you using a heart rate monitor? Making sure you are working in the right cardio zones are key to getting the most out of your workouts. Are your high intensity workouts intervals or flat out for 45 min?*



I have a Garmin 500 with a Heart Rate Monitor and Speed/Cadence Sensor. I set the Garmin up for the High Intesinty Interval Training (5min warmup, 4 sets of 30 second High Intensity 80% of max heart rate and 1 min. recover, 4 sets of 1 min High Intensity and 1 min recover, 4 sets of 30 sec. High Intensity and 1 min. recove, 10 min cool downr)

Reading the collected data from my Garmin, heart rate at rest 70bpm, Max heart rate 168bpm. 80% of 168bpm is 134bpm.

Does my high intensity heart rate need to be higher?


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## mmoose (Apr 2, 2004)

Would add "don't underestimate the mental aspect". There is a big jump timewise being on the bike 2 hours at a time vs. 5-6 hours. Sat/Sun ride, think 4 hours of your weekend last year vs. 12 hours next year.

So to keep fresh, find different people to ride with. Take trips to find new road. Maybe find a week long tour in another state.

(I took 5 years of the bike and just got back on in 2010. It took almost a year to catch up to my neighbors that I usually ride with. The good news, since I had been off the bike, we had new stories and things to talk about for 4-5 hours at a time. Towards the end of 2011, I started riding one day on the weekend with them, and then one day with a bigger group that like more speed but more like 60-70 vs 80-100 miles. Different people, different riding, different conversation, keeps me mentally fresh.)


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## Tauntonian (Nov 3, 2011)

Gnarly 928 said:


> *Probably didn't help you much*...experience has no substitute. My first 12 hr, I rode it like a normal race....and at about 10hrs I began cramping badly and quit riding at 11 hrs......I watched the guys I was "beating" until then keep on going, racking up additional miles and passing me by as I sat there with 'cooked legs'.....Next race I did better, treating it like a true Ultra race....



I believe your advice to be very helpful. I'm beginning to learn to listen to my body more.When attempting to push the limits while riding, it isn't till later do I realize I went too far. I'm learning. I'm also trying to eat better, providing the necessary fuel to do a longer more grueling ride.


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## KenSmithMT (Feb 17, 2012)

Tauntonian said:


> *KenSmithMT
> 
> Sounds pretty good for a base program. Are you using a heart rate monitor? Making sure you are working in the right cardio zones are key to getting the most out of your workouts. Are your high intensity workouts intervals or flat out for 45 min?*
> 
> ...


Short answer...yes. 

Long answer...
Endurance Training = 90+ minutes at 65-70% max heart rate. Benefits increase greatly after 90 minutes. 
Interval Training = 45-60 minute workouts. 30-60 sec intervals at 90-95%. 3-4 minute at 85-90%

Unfortunately I had a very nice response with two sample workouts for you...and I bumped the wrong key and they're gone. :mad2: I'll redo the response later today.


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## Tauntonian (Nov 3, 2011)

mmoose said:


> Would add "*don't underestimate the mental aspect*". There is a big jump timewise being on the bike 2 hours at a time vs. 5-6 hours. Sat/Sun ride, think 4 hours of your weekend last year vs. 12 hours next year.
> 
> So to keep fresh, find different people to ride with. Take trips to find new road. Maybe find a week long tour in another state.


A co-worker, friend got me riding again last summer. He has been riding/competing for most of his adult life. He prefers mountain bikes to road bikes, but rides more on the road than off. He still competes both on and off the road. He also worked in the business for many years. He either works-out or rides everyday. He is extremely devoted and has a truly understanding wife. I believe he has demonstrated to me what is needed, both mentally and physically. *It does take mental toughness*.He likes to go fast, I like to go far.

I don't have the time that he does, although if I did, I might devote that much time and effort into conditioning.

He also introduced to me some cyclist that ride every morning. They are all retired and their rides vary from 25 miles to 63 miles. The majority of the rides are in the mid 30's.Depending who is riding the average pace is between 14 and 16 miles an hour, usually with one stop for coffee. All these guys still ride century's and such. I love riding with these guys, but it is as much a social event as it is exercise. 

I hope to able to ride long distance, that is my goal. I would like to able to ride my bike for 5 or 6 hours without total collapse at the end. It may take some time to condition myself to that level, but I am willing to give it my best effort.

I


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## Tauntonian (Nov 3, 2011)

*Increased Intensity - Heart Rate - 85%*



KenSmithMT said:


> Short answer...yes.
> 
> Long answer...
> Endurance Training = 90+ minutes at 65-70% max heart rate. Benefits increase greatly after 90 minutes.
> ...


Last night I increased my intensity... I'm going to need a little time to get adjusted. I'll gradually work up to 95%. Going to attempt it again tomorrow night.



Thanks again *KenSmithMT*


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## Winters (Dec 4, 2011)

Just watched Ride the Divide a 2010 documentary online from Netflix .... 
..."Starting in Banff, Canada, and ending at the U.S.-Mexico border, the Great Divide mountain bike race extends 2,700 miles along the Continental Divide."
.
OP might enjoy seeing some of the endurance riders.
.
John Stamstad makes a guest appearance ... Saw him ride solo in a 24 hour team event and he beat most of the 4 person teams. ... 
I know our team trained for months and did very good, but he tied us.


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## nsk1 (Feb 22, 2012)

i like hitting the gym a few times a week. also an avid runner and i play league basketball and throw a frisbee around with friends a lot. call it cross training, call it staying active. anything is better than nothing.

watch what you eat in the off seasons of whatever you do and keep the mental edge. as a runner, if your mind isn't in it, might as well go home.


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## Herbie (Nov 12, 2010)

Gnarly has it pegged and it does not make any difference if you are over 50 or under. Your first objective has to be to go the distance. It doesn't matter who is ahead at 100 miles if you are in a 200 mile event. 

There is no substitute for butt in saddle experience.


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## antonlove (Sep 30, 2009)

Tauntonian said:


> I believe I am a recreational rider who is attempting to become more of a distance rider (50 miles or more per ride). I was able to put approx.1900 miles on my bikes since the end of July last year. In all my years of riding I never prepared myself (physical conditioning) for the upcoming riding season. Since last July my rides went from an average of 15 miles to 40 or more, longest being 72 miles. I also lost a lot of weight and my energy levels soared. My question is this, do people who ride distance, opposed to racing, prepare the same way for the upcoming riding season? I also want to keep as much of the physical conditioning I was able to obtain from last season.
> 
> I bought a cyclops fluid trainer and bought one of Carmichael''s training DVDs. I do get on it twice a week. Maybe I need to be on it more.
> 
> How do you people get in riding SHAPE? :idea:


I realize that I'm waking up this year old thread but I'm interested in knowing what the OP did, and how your season went? Do you plan to change anything about how you train for the upcoming season?

In the meantime, I'll throw my 2 cents in. For the record, I agree with RussellS. But, I will adjust the concept to power or high intensity effort, as opposed to pure speed. I spend the beginning of my season focusing on speed and power. High intensity efforts for short durations. In other words, interval training. I call this phase 1. I then transition to phase 2, which is speed endurance. I live in the city, so I ride way out to ride on country roads and try to do long sustained efforts at higher speeds. Not sprinting, but fast. Phase 3, endurance, is easy after having gone through the first two phases. 

In your post, you wrote that you wanted to average 50 miles per ride, and I'm guessing that you would consider endurance riding to be about 100 miles. For comparision, last year I averaged 41.07 miles per ride with my shortest ride being 8.9 miles and my longest ride being 115 miles. I started riding in May 2010 and since then I've began my season around late March early April. I usually finish up some time in October. Last year I rode 6 century rides with the 1st one being in May and the last one was in September. I try to do all my century rides in under 5 hours. I don't train at all in the winter. I don't race (yet) but I do ride with racers frequently. 

If your speed goals are not very ambitious, it's ok. If you do H.I.T., then you will be able to ride whatever endurance ride at whatever pace you want. Also, I regularly go out and bonk on purpose. I need to know how fast I can go for how long. I feel confident that if I can average 20+ mph, then I can ride 15 mph for as long as my derriere can take sitting on the saddle.

Based on your original post, I didn't think that you were trying to ride in 200 mile events, but perhaps you were or maybe your goals have changed.


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