# Save Phil Liggett----Boycott NBC and all Advertisers



## enac (Aug 24, 2007)

I guess all the ruffled feathers over Phil's recent comments about BMX and Mountain Biking have meaning behind them. It seems NBC has sidelined Phil Liggett from commentating the Olympic Road race in favor of Schlanger. I hope that short little turd Bob Costas fills his pockets with rocks and jumps into the Thames never to be heard from again. F U NBC. 

We need to save Phil!!!!

Is NBC going to dump Phil from calling next years Tour?


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## enac (Aug 24, 2007)

By the way --------------NBC's live streaming sucks!!!!!!

I am feeling ripped off.


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## erj549 (Jul 26, 2008)

Maybe Phil should stop b!tching about them taking out super-obscure track cycling events that no one cares about. Exposure to mountain and BMX biking only improve and enhance the public's perception towards cycling; obscure track events do not.


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## Dwayne Barry (Feb 16, 2003)

Seems the last year to two there are plenty of races where someone else is paired with Paul. I kind of doubt he was pulled because of his bias for track.

Not that the guy calling it with Sherwen did anything to add to the coverage, but with the riders in the national kits Phil's habitual misidentification of riders would have been massive


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## JoelS (Aug 25, 2008)

Dwayne Barry said:


> Seems the last year to two there are plenty of races where someone else is paired with Paul. I kind of doubt he was pulled because of his bias for track.


I agree. Phil may be thinking of retiring and the network is looking for a replacement.


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## robdamanii (Feb 13, 2006)

There's little that makes me happier than having Phil banned from commentating. 

Senile old tool....and screw his opinion on track racing. I'd rather see BMX or MTB. Far more interesting.


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## aclinjury (Sep 12, 2011)

I'd love to see some track cycling. Like to see what the big boys sprint


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## burgrat (Nov 18, 2005)

Did they sideline him or did he have a commitment to work on British tv coverage?


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## enac (Aug 24, 2007)

burgrat said:


> Did they sideline him or did he have a commitment to work on British tv coverage?


NBC owes us an explanation.

They also owe us an apology for their horrendous live streaming.


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## allison (Apr 19, 2006)

enac said:


> NBC owes us an explanation.
> 
> They also owe us an apology for their horrendous live streaming.


It wasn't perfect, but I was watching almost live mens road racing. From London. On my cell phone. For Free.


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## RkFast (Dec 11, 2004)

At one point Schlanger implied that Fabs has never won a big road race. 

But Liggett is the idiot........


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## Lazy Spinner (Aug 30, 2009)

OMG! You couldn't enjoy the coverage because one man wasn't in the announcers booth? Shut it down! Gut the sponsorship of the sport! Don't show cycling in the USA any longer! It's chaos, I tell you, and disrespectful to the HUGE Super Bowl sized audience that watches men in spandex pedal bikes!

Have Mommy make you some pancakes and orange juice and you'll feel better. You might also want to take a nap this afternoon. You sound all tuckered out from staying up too late to watch the opening ceremonies last night.


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## Marc (Jan 23, 2005)

enac said:


> NBC owes us an explanation.
> 
> They also owe us an apology for their horrendous live streaming.


What was horrendous about it, other than the lack of commentating and on-screen race info?

Seriously. Considering I'm not paying for it, I'm not that annoyed about it.


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## cheddarlove (Oct 17, 2005)

I like Phil. I missed him but this race could have been understood (by a cyclist) even with no sound. As far as I'm concerned, announcers are there to liven it up and keep the audience tuned in when it's dull as a door nail.


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## thechriswebb (Nov 21, 2008)

Its a shame for Phil that he is so doggone popular; if he wasn't he would be a little more popular around here.


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## OldEndicottHiway (Jul 16, 2007)

thechriswebb said:


> Its a shame for Phil that he is so doggone popular; if he wasn't he would be a little more popular around here.



Ding ding ding.


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## OldEndicottHiway (Jul 16, 2007)

Phil is gold. 

He's a class act and will know when it's time to let it go.

If NBC waltzes in and "cleans house" they could loose a huge base with no time to recover. You can clean house internally, but that doesn't mean the customers will stick around, or new customers be drawn in.

I have a sister who's not historically been into pro cycling at all, but over the last few years has been sucked into watching the TdF... in great part because she looks forward to Phil and Paul's commentary. 

It's fun to see her post about it on FB.

I say anything that grabs the general non-cycling viewership over time...well that's the start of "tradition." And a sense of "tradition" is what cycling needs in the USA.


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## Rhymenocerus (Jul 17, 2010)

Phil is a good guy but hes way passed his prime. He needs to call it quits. Every other word out of his mouth seems to be mis-spoken.


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## BCR#1 (Jul 29, 2007)

Even with the mistakes, I would rather listen to Phil than the guy that was with Paul today.

Bill


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## OldEndicottHiway (Jul 16, 2007)

Rhymenocerus said:


> Phil is a good guy but hes way passed his prime. He needs to call it quits. Every other word out of his mouth seems to be mis-spoken.



I keep hearing something about these guys having to commentate on multiple feeds in front of their face at the same time, bouncing back and forth between different races and/or different aspects within a stage.

I'd be interested to learn more about that, and what goes on behind the scenes. 

Phil is to cycling as Howard Cosel was to boxing and other sports. And nobody jumped up and down when he was gone. Except maybe Robdamanii.


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## EuroSVT (Sep 15, 2011)

To say that anybody spinning a pedal doesn't belong, I don't get that. If people are hating on Ligget for his comment, it's well deserved in this case


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## Marc (Jan 23, 2005)

OldEndicottHiway said:


> Ding ding ding.


Maybe for others, but not me.

His errors in commentating are just getting too annoying and too frequent for me to want to listen. I'm not talking rocket science, just getting rider's names right and knowing when in fact the sprint points are for starters. Odds are whenever Phil names a rider 1-in-2 odds he has the wrong name. He's had a great run, and knows his cycling history I'll give him that....Not to say that Schlanger and GoGo are any better, they can seldom ever even name a rider on screen apart from his jersey color. Don't get me started on Paul's steroid advertising every time he mentions the ___________ Tour of California when he's not even commentating on that race.

I keep Kelly and Harmon going on for commentary and NBC for video.


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## robdamanii (Feb 13, 2006)

I pray for Harmon and Kelly every time I hear Phil's name.


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## Opus51569 (Jul 21, 2009)

Okay, I came late to the party, could somebody post a link or fill me in on what Phil said exactly that started all this?


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## OldEndicottHiway (Jul 16, 2007)

Marc said:


> Maybe for others, but not me.
> 
> His errors in commentating are just getting too annoying and too frequent for me to want to listen. I'm not talking rocket science, just getting rider's names right and knowing when in fact the sprint points are for starters. *Odds are whenever Phil names a rider 1-in-2 odds he has the wrong name.* .



You pulled that stat right out of your butt. He's not _that_ bad. 

I'll agree though, this year's TdF had him making more frequent riderID errors. 

Again, I'm wondering just how much in the way of concurrent commentating he's having to do via multiple feeds.

I'm more bothered by the ridiculous "plugs" PnP have to pull for sponsors. That and the glossing over of controversy.... 

It'd be funnerer to hear a running Phil commentary go something like, "... _Lance once nearly took this same stage in two thousand and... oh bloody hell, f*ck Lance that f*cking lying yank look I think that's Greipel making a move now, no wait... it's Cavendish! Yes, I believe it is... it's Mark Cavendish! Can *anybody* stop this man! Mark Cavendish gets it again on the line!. Well Paul, I know I'd hit it."_


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## OldEndicottHiway (Jul 16, 2007)

EuroSVT said:


> To say that anybody spinning a pedal doesn't belong, I don't get that. If people are hating on Ligget for his comment, it's well deserved in this case


From the gist of this thread, I'm gathering that Phil is unhappy with BMX replacing some track events, and made comments as to such? That right?

I can't blame him. 

I am a longtime (lousy) snowboarder, but even I thought it was silly to add the halfpipe to the winter games. I understand the talent and athleticism needed to do it and call me a curmudgeon, but it's a "kiddie game."

That's the way I view BMX as opposed to traditional cycling events.

But whatever, the Olympics as a whole have become a bastardization.


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## InfiniteLoop (Mar 20, 2010)

Me thinks NBC thought they should have US announcers announcing to a US centric audience. Brits are after all, our competitors. I much prefer Phil & Paul to Schlanger and Gogo but Schlanger might well have been their best option for a US accent and they at least had the wisdom to not try to go with Schlang & Gogo.


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## Lazy Spinner (Aug 30, 2009)

It could've been much worse - Craig Hummer and GoGo plus a cutaway taped interview (while the winning move took place) where Ryan Seacrest asks Taylor Phinney, "Is it tough that Mom has the only gold medal in the house?" and mentioning, "Justin Bieber is a huge fan. He texted me last night to say, Good luck Taylor!"

I'm going to quit before NBC gets any ideas.


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## PRB (Jun 15, 2002)

Opus51569 said:


> Okay, I came late to the party, could somebody post a link or fill me in on what Phil said exactly that started all this?


Here you go....


> "It is absolutely disgraceful what they have done. They have devastated the track with the new events and taking out the iconic events of the Olympics," Liggett said.
> "They have taken out the exciting and interesting events - the individual pursuit, the 1km time trial and the women's 500m time trial, and put in an omnium that no one will ever understand.
> "There is only one rider from each country in the omnium and they are a jack of all trades and master of none."
> "Nations and riders complained, but the UCI (International Cycling Union) wanted equality," he said.
> ...


http://www.heraldsun.com.au/sport/l...e-olympic-sports/story-fn9dheyx-1226434989835

I can understand where he's coming from, the track events have a lot of tradition, and I'd certainly agree with him re: BMX. The Olympic version isn't BMX as I know it, it's 'BMX Supercross' which is perhaps the silliest cycling event I've ever seen. 

Here's a UCI Final from last year on the same course that the Olympics will use.....it's a 40 second race.  http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XXIDYn4H_1A


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## Opus51569 (Jul 21, 2009)

Thanks, much, PRB. 

I see now what all the fuss is about. I like Phil a great deal, but those comments were probably best saved for a private conversation.


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## jroy (Jul 26, 2011)

Phil is right in that track cycling should not be relegated in any way because newer bike disciplines are being added. I kindly suggest that track cycling is given more time by telling the equestrians to shove off. sorry but I do not care for rich people training horses to obey orders


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## Mosovich (Feb 3, 2004)

*Eurosport..*

Eurosport usually has Sean Kelly.. Now that guy can tell you what's going on!!


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## JustTooBig (Aug 11, 2005)

erj549 said:


> Maybe Phil should stop b!tching about them taking out super-obscure track cycling events that no one cares about. Exposure to mountain and BMX biking only improve and enhance the public's perception towards cycling; obscure track events do not.


the kilo is a super-obscure event??

careful there, your ignorance is showing...


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## 32and3cross (Feb 28, 2005)

enac said:


> I guess all the ruffled feathers over Phil's recent comments about BMX and Mountain Biking have meaning behind them. It seems NBC has sidelined Phil Liggett from commentating the Olympic Road race in favor of Schlanger. I hope that short little turd Bob Costas fills his pockets with rocks and jumps into the Thames never to be heard from again. F U NBC.
> 
> We need to save Phil!!!!
> 
> Is NBC going to dump Phil from calling next years Tour?


Phil is biased jerk that is past it, maybe it's time for him to go.


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## erj549 (Jul 26, 2008)

JustTooBig said:


> the kilo is a super-obscure event??
> 
> careful there, your ignorance is showing...


Their job is ratings. BMX and MTN, in my humbly ignorant opinion, have more appeal to the average Joe than some dude in a skin suit going around an oval a few times. I think the subtleties of the different track events are lost on the average viewer, so some of the events were replaced with more "cutting edge" disciplines intended to sell tickets and boost ratings. Sorry I'm not a purist and can't see what the problem is with that. 

In other news, I saw the equestrian dressage event and almost fell out of my chair. That's some dumb sh!t there.


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## JaeP (Mar 12, 2002)

erj549 said:


> In other news, I saw the equestrian dressage event and almost fell out of my chair. That's some dumb sh!t there.


Word. Synchronized swimming and that floor exercise a with stick and piece of string and a big rubber ball? What up wit dat!


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## JSR (Feb 27, 2006)

Marc said:


> . Don't get me started on Paul's steroid advertising every time he mentions the ___________ Tour of California when he's not even commentating on that race.


Still not true. Amgen does not make steroids. Google is your friend.

JSR


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## BCR#1 (Jul 29, 2007)

Mosovich said:


> Eurosport usually has Sean Kelly.. Now that guy can tell you what's going on!!


From the few video's I've seen on you tube, it is very hard to understand what he is saying. He may speak the kings english but his accent is annoying to me. 

I'll take PnP any day.

Bill


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## Dwayne Barry (Feb 16, 2003)

robdamanii said:


> I pray for Harmon and Kelly every time I hear Phil's name.


Yeah I agree, I like those guys about a billion times more than Phil and Paul. For one thing, that don't say the same old lines race after race.


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## Dwayne Barry (Feb 16, 2003)

Lazy Spinner said:


> It could've been much worse - Craig Hummer and GoGo plus a cutaway taped interview (while the winning move took place) where Ryan Seacrest asks Taylor Phinney, "Is it tough that Mom has the only gold medal in the house?" and mentioning, "Justin Bieber is a huge fan. He texted me last night to say, Good luck Taylor!"
> 
> I'm going to quit before NBC gets any ideas.


Wow, excellent summary of U.S. sports coverage of these types of things in general. It's unwatchable. Thankful for DVR.

Everything is over-produced, filled with bumpers and pre-taped pieces, tons of commercials, and commentary that treats the audience like they are retarded.


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## Marc (Jan 23, 2005)

JSR said:


> Still not true. Amgen does not make steroids. Google is your friend.
> 
> JSR


You're technically right they don't make steroids, they've been making/selling EPO under the brand "Procrit", or "Epogen" since the mid-80s I believe...I believe they were even the patent holder for a while. Is a bike race sponsor making/selling EPO more or less sleazy than one that sells steroids?


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## Dwayne Barry (Feb 16, 2003)

Opus51569 said:


> Thanks, much, PRB.
> 
> I see now what all the fuss is about. I like Phil a great deal, but those comments were probably best saved for a private conversation.


When people get old they lose the ability to filter what they say, hence old people "telling you like it is" or "just not caring what they say". No they're getting senile.

Like when he said during the Tour's coverage, that the folks who threw the tacks on the road "should be shot".


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## erj549 (Jul 26, 2008)

Marc said:


> You're technically right they don't make steroids, they've been making/selling EPO under the brand "Procrit", or "Epogen" since the mid-80s I believe...I believe they were even the patent holder for a while. Is a bike race sponsor making/selling EPO more or less sleazy than one that sells steroids?


Amgen is a multinational pharmaceutical company, and EPO is only one of their product lines. That EPO happens to be the preferred performance enhancing drug of choice in endurance sports has nothing to do with Amgen's sponsorship in cycling. It's not like they're handing out EPO samples in their welcome packets, are they?


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## Marc (Jan 23, 2005)

erj549 said:


> Amgen is a multinational pharmaceutical company, and EPO is only one of their product lines. That EPO happens to be the preferred performance enhancing drug of choice in endurance sports has nothing to do with Amgen's sponsorship in cycling. It's not like they're handing out EPO samples in their welcome packets, are they?


EPO is what took a California pharma startup in 1980...and turned it into a billion-dollar company. In 1989 they made a total of $2.8million in revenue...through 1990 after they won the legal battles over EPO, Amgen made $140 million in revenue courtesy of their one product EPO. Sure EPO is only one of their lines *today*, but it was the drug that put Amgen on the map.

http://www.pharmaphorum.com/2010/10/15/a-history-of-amgen/

Hearing their name as a title sponsor in a bike race is at best bizzare. History knows no irony. Hearing Paul offer free advertising to them is obnoxious.


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## BacDoc (Aug 1, 2011)

Marc said:


> EPO is what took a California pharma startup in 1980...and turned it into a billion-dollar company. In 1989 they made a total of $2.8million in revenue...through 1990 after they won the legal battles over EPO, Amgen made $140 million in revenue courtesy of their one product EPO. Sure EPO is only one of their lines *today*, but it was the drug that put Amgen on the map.
> 
> Where next for the first generation biotechs? | pharmaphorum
> 
> Hearing their name as a title sponsor in a bike race is at best bizzare. History knows no irony. Hearing Paul offer free advertising to them is obnoxious.


You are aware there is a world outside of cycling?

If you are recovering from a devastating medical patholology or have a debilitating auto immune disease, some of these pharmaceuticals can keep you alive. Things like picking up your grandchild or taking a walk with your wife are more valuable than any medal!

I'm one of those who is very critical of the big drug cartel but sometimes they do help some people. Cyclists using drugs for non prescribed condition is a small fraction of the whole.

Back on topic, I am a fan of PnP. Love cycling but don't race and the only TV coverage I watch is the TDF and Olympics. Think PnP do a great job and love Phil's pronunciations of the famous landmarks along the tour. If you don't follow pro racing closely you will never even notice those screwups in the commentary.


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## thechriswebb (Nov 21, 2008)

I watch races commented on by both Phil and Paul as well as Kelly and Harmon. They're different but both do fine. If you prefer one, stick to it. The Phil and Paul hate threads are some of the silliest that develop on this whole forum; often attempts for people to pad their cred by proclaiming that they listen to the "correct" announcers. 

The P and P style is good for newbies in the American audience who have never seen a bike race. It was helpful for me when I was learning. 

As far as Phil's comments go, I guess I see where he is coming from but I don't think I would have chosen to say that outloud.


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## Fett (Jun 9, 2003)

I view Phil in the same light as watching Harry Caray do a Cub's game at the end of his career. It is entertaining to hear what he is going to say next. Whether is wrong or goofy, it is better fun than some of the stiffs that they put in the booth.


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## EuroSVT (Sep 15, 2011)

OldEndicottHiway said:


> But whatever, the Olympics as a whole have become a bastardization.


Have to agree! I remember them trying to place skateboarding in the Olympics, under the UCI...had to do a double take on that. Skateboarding is my heart & passion, and I've been doing it for life. Not something I want to see in the Olympics. It's too hard to judge at that level...and a good deal of the better riders would never pass the drug testing 

I can't comment on the BMX side of what Phil was getting at, but mountain biking, to me, is a very worthy competition. Maybe not the course they have set up for London.


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## LWP (Jun 6, 2006)

Dwayne Barry said:


> Like when he said during the Tour's coverage, that the folks who threw the tacks on the road "should be shot".


Yeah, "shot" was a bit harsh. "Tossed into the road from the back of a truck traveling 60km/hr" would probably have been a better choice of words. You know, just to get some feel for what the riders would experience if they went down from a flat while descending. But that wouldn't have had the same flow during the broadcast so he improvised. Sometimes you gotta do that.


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## Patty (Feb 12, 2006)

erj549 said:


> Their job is ratings. BMX and MTN, in my humbly ignorant opinion, have more appeal to the average Joe than some dude in a skin suit going around an oval a few times. I think the subtleties of the different track events are lost on the average viewer, so some of the events were replaced with more "cutting edge" disciplines intended to sell tickets and boost ratings. Sorry I'm not a purist and can't see what the problem is with that.
> 
> In other news, I saw the equestrian dressage event and almost fell out of my chair. That's some dumb sh!t there.


BZZZZ. Wrong answer. Ratings are not "their job". If ratings were their job, then they'd have a wet T-shirt contest. Allowing accomplished athletes a chance to train and represent their country in an international sporting discipline is what they're there for. Throwing away a track event that has a long history and is seen as a benchmark for performance in favor of a BMX, which has a long history of bragging rights at the local skate park is, well, childish. That's why we have the X games, where like minded kids can snap their ankles, throw their skateboards at the crowd, and chug their energy drinks.


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## robdamanii (Feb 13, 2006)

Patty said:


> BZZZZ. Wrong answer. Ratings are not "their job". If ratings were their job, then they'd have a wet T-shirt contest. Allowing accomplished athletes a chance to train and represent their country in an international sporting discipline is what they're there for. Throwing away a track event that has a long history and is seen as a benchmark for performance in favor of a BMX, which has a long history of bragging rights at the local skate park is, well, childish. That's why we have the X games, where like minded kids can snap their ankles, throw their skateboards at the crowd, and chug their energy drinks.


So complain to the IOC and UCI instead of us. 

Phil was a complete idiot in putting that quote out there, although I think he's too senile to know the difference between smart and stupid at this point.


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## Creakyknees (Sep 21, 2003)

Dwayne Barry said:


> When people get old they lose the ability to filter what they say, hence old people "telling you like it is" or "just not caring what they say". No they're getting senile.


I'm gonna dredge this quote in 20 years and ask you how you feel about it.


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## Oxtox (Aug 16, 2006)

yeah, Phil can be annoying at times...he repeats his list of catch-phrases a little too often and screws up rider IDs. but as OEH mentioned, he's like Cosell to an Ali heavy-wt bout...there's just something about his patented schtick that works...

show us someone significantly better and more entertaining and I'll vote to have Phil retired.

and as for the BMX comment, it's his opinion, glad he voiced it. it's sorta cycling, but I wouldn't spend 10 seconds watching it. if they want to include it, fine...but, to limit coverage of some track events for it...? that's bs.


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## PaxRomana (Jan 16, 2012)

enac said:


> I guess all the ruffled feathers over Phil's recent comments about BMX and Mountain Biking have meaning behind them. It seems NBC has sidelined Phil Liggett from commentating the Olympic Road race in favor of Schlanger. I hope that short little turd Bob Costas fills his pockets with rocks and jumps into the Thames never to be heard from again. F U NBC.
> 
> We need to save Phil!!!!
> 
> Is NBC going to dump Phil from calling next years Tour?


No. I can't wait for Liggett and Sherwen to retire. The cycling world doesn't need those two muppets.

The two guys on Universal, Todd Gogulski and Steve Schlanger are infinitely better.


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## RRRoubaix (Aug 27, 2008)

PaxRomana said:


> No. I can't wait for Liggett and Sherwen to retire. The cycling world doesn't need those two muppets.
> 
> The two guys on Universal, Todd Gogulski and Steve Schlanger are infinitely better.


I'm hoping this is sarcasm.
I don't care what you think of P'n'P, but to suggest GoGo and Schlong are better is insane. (They're even more reviled than P'n'P in the RBR forums!)


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## MikeBiker (Mar 9, 2003)

PRB said:


> Here you go....http://www.heraldsun.com.au/sport/l...e-olympic-sports/story-fn9dheyx-1226434989835
> 
> I can understand where he's coming from, the track events have a lot of tradition, and I'd certainly agree with him re: BMX. The Olympic version isn't BMX as I know it, it's 'BMX Supercross' which is perhaps the silliest cycling event I've ever seen.
> 
> Here's a UCI Final from last year on the same course that the Olympics will use.....it's a 40 second race.  http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XXIDYn4H_1A


The BMX race in the last Olympic was entertaining. It just didn't seem to be an event that fit my definition of an event that should be considered fro the games. I feel the same way about the short-track speed skating in the winter games.


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## Bill Bikie (Jul 24, 2010)

*Record and watch later*



enac said:


> By the way --------------NBC's live streaming sucks!!!!!!
> 
> I am feeling ripped off.


I recorded it off of the normal NBC and watched it later in the day. Fast forwarding through the commercials improves continuity, and it's like they're not even there. I thought the coverage was great!


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## Richard (Feb 17, 2006)

I'd like to see Schlanger paired with Scott Moninger. GoGo drives me up the wall.

But I do enjoy the "Paul Sherwin Drinking Game." Take a slug of your favorite libation every time Sherwin says "front end of the main field" and you'll be s**t faced in 20 minutes.


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## Patty (Feb 12, 2006)

robdamanii said:


> So complain to the IOC and UCI instead of us.
> 
> Phil was a complete idiot in putting that quote out there, although I think he's too senile to know the difference between smart and stupid at this point.


 A senile Phil has more credibility than you have in your most lucid of moments.


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## robdamanii (Feb 13, 2006)

Patty said:


> A senile Phil has more credibility than you have in your most lucid of moments.


Except rider's names. 

I can't help it if your hero Phil is an idiot.


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## robdamanii (Feb 13, 2006)

Oxtox said:


> yeah, Phil can be annoying at times...he repeats his list of catch-phrases a little too often and screws up rider IDs. but as OEH mentioned, he's like Cosell to an Ali heavy-wt bout...there's just something about his patented schtick that works...
> 
> show us someone significantly better and more entertaining and I'll vote to have Phil retired.
> 
> and as for the BMX comment, it's his opinion, glad he voiced it. it's sorta cycling, but I wouldn't spend 10 seconds watching it. if they want to include it, fine...but, to limit coverage of some track events for it...? that's bs.


I've said it a dozen times. Harmon and Kelly.


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## Dwayne Barry (Feb 16, 2003)

Creakyknees said:


> I'm gonna dredge this quote in 20 years and ask you how you feel about it.


Give it 40 yrs and I probably won't care one way or the other  Every one of my grandparents ended up so demented that they didn't know up from down by the time they died.

Seriously, **** goes awry with aging. Muscle strength,aerobic ability, brain function, etc. how I feel about it when it happens to me won't change the facts


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## AJL (Jul 9, 2009)

PRB said:


> Here you go....Cookies must be enabled | Herald Sun
> 
> I can understand where he's coming from, the track events have a lot of tradition, and I'd certainly agree with him re: BMX. The Olympic version isn't BMX as I know it, it's 'BMX Supercross' which is perhaps the silliest cycling event I've ever seen.


+eleventy! I'm ticked off over what they've done with track cycling 
Whoever made the comment of BMX, etc., belonging to the X Games was dead on as well.


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## pedalruns (Dec 18, 2002)

After watching the men's and women's races.. I miss Phil's style, I enjoy his imperfections. I've been watching Phil and Paul forever and it will be sad to see either of them retire or be replaced. 

Does anyone know for sure why Phil isn't the announcer? Links??


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## jhamlin38 (Oct 29, 2005)

I like Bob Roll. His over-articulated, anti french sarcasm, his years as a pro, and most importantly his extremely handsome face is something I look forward to anytime. Same with phil and Paul, shlanger and gogo.
I like 'em all. I am keenly aware of their shortcomings, and their errors. But I look forward to them ALL THE TIME. 
If I am watching Luis Leon Sanchez soloing down off the front, and Phil says its Lars Boom, I know its LL Sanchez. It doesn't bother me. 
... and I know he is riding like a man possessed. But I don't mind being reminded of his possession. It really doesn't bother me.
But really, I like Roll and hope to see/hear more from him.


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## cheddarlove (Oct 17, 2005)

jhamlin38 said:


> I like Bob Roll. His over-articulated, anti french sarcasm, his years as a pro, and most importantly his extremely handsome face is something I look forward to anytime. Same with phil and Paul, shlanger and gogo.
> I like 'em all. I am keenly aware of their shortcomings, and their errors. But I look forward to them ALL THE TIME.
> If I am watching Luis Leon Sanchez soloing down off the front, and Phil says its Lars Boom, I know its LL Sanchez. It doesn't bother me.
> ... and I know he is riding like a man possessed. But I don't mind being reminded of his possession. It really doesn't bother me.
> But really, I like Roll and hope to see/hear more from him.


I totally agree. :thumbsup:


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## Cobaltss_King (Jul 30, 2012)

Seems the last year to two there are plenty of races where someone else is paired with Paul. I kind of doubt he was pulled because of his bias for track.


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## Rokh On (Oct 30, 2011)

RRRoubaix said:


> I'm hoping this is sarcasm.
> I don't care what you think of P'n'P, but to suggest GoGo and Schlong are better is insane. (They're even more reviled than P'n'P in the RBR forums!)


Agreed. I also hope it is sarcasm. 

Unfortunately for me there was one morning I didn't feel like getting up at a ridiculous hour to stream the tour live. Instead I tuned into the NBC prime time coverage. I couldn't take it. I kept asking myself why couldn't they just leave PnP without the added needless BS. Some of those interviews were just too much. If you believe Phil is an idiot then what do you call Hummer??? dumber???


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## Patty (Feb 12, 2006)

robdamanii said:


> Except rider's names.
> 
> I can't help it if your hero Phil is an idiot.


And I can't help it if you choose to label everyone you disagree with as an idiot. Makes life pretty grim.


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## robdamanii (Feb 13, 2006)

Patty said:


> And I can't help it if you choose to label everyone you disagree with as an idiot. Makes life pretty grim.


I only call 'em like I see 'em sweetie. Must be tough to hear honesty, eh?


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## Oldteen (Sep 7, 2005)

Watched both Men's & Women's RR & thought Schlanger was PATHETIC for both. He should go back to baseball since too often his grasp of cycling seemed rudimentary at best. Appeared Sherwen was reduced to politely correcting more of his mis-statements than should be allowed for any professional announcer. Schlanger is just an over-rated mouthpiece who didn't seem to know (or at least articulate) the difference between cracking/fatigue vs having a mechanical...... or the significance of a flat with 75 vs 5 km to go. Even DW was catching Schlang's gaffs & she doesn't even use clipless pedals!

Re- Phil's comments on BMX/MTB: Olympics has switched up events for many years, and everyone (even Phil) is entitled to his opinion on changes. Refreshing to hear someone say anything other than just repeating Committee's party line. FWIW- I happen to thnk MTB deserves to be in, but not BMX (and Oly's event ain't REAL BMX anyway).


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## bruin11 (May 21, 2004)

pedalruns said:


> After watching the men's and women's races.. I miss Phil's style, I enjoy his imperfections. I've been watching Phil and Paul forever and it will be sad to see either of them retire or be replaced.
> 
> Does anyone know for sure why Phil isn't the announcer? Links??


I saw it mentioned in some news reports that Phil was commentating for one of the British networks

http://wwos.ninemsn.com.au/article.aspx?id=8506036


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## ms6073 (Jul 7, 2005)

JaeP said:


> Synchronized swimming and that floor exercise a with stick and piece of string and a big rubber ball? What up wit dat!


I always thought that was what happened to swimmers and gymnasts who did not make the cut for the 'B' team. 



robdamanii said:


> I've said it a dozen times. Harmon and Kelly.


I think Harmon, Cassani, & Kelly make a good team as well as you would have Harmon as referee while Cassani goes off on n-ending tangents about things from wine to pretty women along the road side, not too mention someones got to keep Sean in check because with that heavy irish brogue, I doubt Harmon understands half the things he is saying!


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## enac (Aug 24, 2007)

#NBCFail hashtag---------------NBC sucks!!!


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## robdamanii (Feb 13, 2006)

enac said:


> #NBCFail hashtag---------------NBC sucks!!!


We get it dude. Get a life.


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## Chef Tony (Mar 2, 2004)

Phil is going to work next year's 100th anniversary of the Tour & then retire. He hinted as much during this year's commentary.


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## burgrat (Nov 18, 2005)

Chef Tony said:


> Phil is going to work next year's 100th anniversary of the Tour & then retire. He hinted as much during this year's commentary.


I think that would be the best way for him to go out on a high note. I love Phil, but he is slipping a little bit. I would like to see him still pop in from time to time, but for the day to day race calls, I think his time to bow out gracefully is coming.


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## DZfan14 (Jul 6, 2009)

enac said:


> I guess all the ruffled feathers over Phil's recent comments about BMX and Mountain Biking have meaning behind them. It seems NBC has sidelined Phil Liggett from commentating the Olympic Road race in favor of Schlanger. I hope that short little turd Bob Costas fills his pockets with rocks and jumps into the Thames never to be heard from again. F U NBC.
> 
> We need to save Phil!!!!
> 
> Is NBC going to dump Phil from calling next years Tour?


I hope this is the end for Phil. Hopefully this is the excuse we have all been waiting for. He is terrible.

Hopefully next year's tour will be Phil-free. But I doubt it.


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## 32and3cross (Feb 28, 2005)

Its time for Phil to go and he can take Paul with him for all I care. Not only is he slipping (a lot) but I'm sick of listening to him drone on and Lance Armstrong and use his position as a pundit for Lance. its time to move on and find someo0ne who is actually interested in call the race as its happening not they would like to to be happening or wish it had happened.


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## OldEndicottHiway (Jul 16, 2007)

Bahhh.

PnP are to cycling as jalepenos are to enchiladas.

I'm finally seeing genuine interest in "enchiladas" (cycling) among my non-initiated American friends. The common denominator seems to be a growing familiarity with PnP.

Now is _not_ the time to retire the PnP show. Especially Phil. 

Roll goes without saying. The guy is gold if they don't keep him on too short a leash.

Those that complain the loudest, are usually the fewest.


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## LostViking (Jul 18, 2008)

*DVR Phil and crew*



Dwayne Barry said:


> Wow, excellent summary of U.S. sports coverage of these types of things in general. It's unwatchable. Thankful for DVR.
> 
> Everything is over-produced, filled with bumpers and pre-taped pieces, tons of commercials, and commentary that treats the audience like they are retarded.


Totally agree - I DVR everything now so I can skip the filler and commercials - it has been a godsend! Also chops off a bunch of wasted time I could be using to actually ride my bike or spend time with my family.:thumbsup:

Re. Phil - Yes he makes a ton (tonne) of mistakes with rider IDs - but no one calls the last Km as well. Perhaps it's time he retired, but I've always liked the PnP+Bobke show and would not be all too upset if it continued for a while yet.


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## LostViking (Jul 18, 2008)

Re. Olympics - Perhaps I'm getting a bit long in the tooth as well but I agree with Phil that there needs to be a place for these "traditional" events (unless there is no longer any interest in them). Phil's openion may also be colored by the fact that the event in question tends to be a good one for GB.
However, what is wrong with the Olympics trying out other sports? This is a tradition as well - events get a run for a couple of Olympics and then fall away - fine with me as long as the more established events are not slashed to make way for a passing fad.

Re. Phil - His cow-towing to Lance and everything Lance-related has always irritated me. Likewise his mentioning Tyler F. as a realistic contender in sprints against the likes of Cav, Grip and Sagan - here he is clearly trying to suduce the American viewership with pipe-dreams of a victory (it is often assumed that Americans will not watch international sport unless there is a high likelihood that an American will win). That said, I still prefer Phil to many of the options mentioned here.


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## ti-triodes (Aug 14, 2006)

32and3cross said:


> Its time for Phil to go and he can take Paul with him for all I care. Not only is he slipping (a lot) but I'm sick of listening to him drone on and Lance Armstrong and use his position as a pundit for Lance. its time to move on and find someo0ne who is actually interested in call the race as its happening not they would like to to be happening or wish it had happened.


Seriously, I haven't heard him kiss Lance's fanny in years. Geez, I love the Lance haters around here.


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## bayAreaDude (Apr 13, 2012)

I watched every minute of every stage this year and don't recall Phil ever even mentioning LA. Sure I could have missed it but there was definitely not much Armstrong talk.


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## LostViking (Jul 18, 2008)

@bay - Not as much this year as USADA has Lancnell and Radio Shanty in it's sights - hard to hype a team and it's gurus when they are producing such bad PR for the sport. But look back to last year's coverage and you will see no shortage of Phil frothing at the mouth to say something Lance-related.


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## Len J (Jan 28, 2004)

OldEndicottHiway said:


> Bahhh.
> 
> PnP are to cycling as jalepenos are to enchiladas.
> 
> ...


Disagree completely ........Sherwin adds nothing except promoting brands and Liggett stopped adding value to the commentary 5 years ago. How many times must we watch a broadcast and have a rider mid identified, or a break missed? I get the history, I've been following racing since the 70's, but I've gotten to the point where I mute the broadcast and follow the live feeds. 

As to Roll.......stereotypical American bumpkin...... The only time he doesn't embarrass himself is when he's quiet. 

IMO. 

Len


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## warrena (Aug 5, 2012)

*Wow!*

Until I hear someone better thatn Phil and Paul it's a non issue. That guy they had on for the 1st half of TDF broadcasts was ok but lacked ...well..something...

I think Phil and Paul are about the best broadcasting team of any sport ever! Sure they blow it a lot but they get it right more often and play off each other quite well. Remember for the TDF they are basically seeing what you're seeing for the first time as well as it's a French broadcast. They are not being guided by a producer but reacting to what's on the screen and computer feeds.

As far as BMX and MTB, both are fun great sports but have different appeals. I'll watch BMX if it's on but not going to plan for it. The "classic" cycling is where it's at for me.

It's a shame any cycling got bumped for trampoline or ping-pong or synchronized diving or the "cat teasing" game with the ribbon....etc...At least Phil kept his opinion "in house" and did not disparage the other "sports".

You may differ...

Warren


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## robdamanii (Feb 13, 2006)

warrena said:


> Until I hear someone better thatn Phil and Paul it's a non issue. That guy they had on for the 1st half of TDF broadcasts was ok but lacked ...well..something...
> 
> I think Phil and Paul are about the best broadcasting team of any sport ever! Sure they blow it a lot but they get it right more often and play off each other quite well. Remember for the TDF they are basically seeing what you're seeing for the first time as well as it's a French broadcast. They are not being guided by a producer but reacting to what's on the screen and computer feeds.
> 
> ...


Go watch Eurosport instead of that sanitized, Americanized garbage on NBC Sports.

You'll thank me.


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## oily666 (Apr 7, 2007)

As much as I love Phil, he's satring to remind me of Harry Carey in his last years.


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## warrena (Aug 5, 2012)

robdamanii said:


> Go watch Eurosport instead of that sanitized, Americanized garbage on NBC Sports.
> 
> You'll thank me.


Well I've been watching Phil and Paul for over 17 years if memory serves. I got hooked on cycling ~1995.

I don't have a TV at present and am curious about Eurosport. Is it available on-line? Will World Championships and Vuelta be on it?

Thanks!

Warren


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## JaeP (Mar 12, 2002)

Love Phil and Paul. Despite their mistakes and penchant for cliches they have the right tone and cadence for broadcasting road cycling. It's my understanding that Phil and Paul sit in a box and watch and comment on live feeds that are provided by the Tour organizers and that the American commentators have the luxury of commentating after the fact when they do the Prime Time coverage (at least that's how I remember it when I had cable). Even then, the American commentators would switch to Phil and Paul's "live" commentaries during the closing km of every stage. 

I tried watching the Olympic road race on line (no commentary, just ambient sounds) and it was boring as HELL. Even with Red Bull and plenty of coffee I still fell asleep. Watching guys (or girls) pedaling bikes for 3 to 6 hours is boring. You need a friendly voice over (Phil and Paul) to make it interesting (I didn't know they had vultures in Europe).

Track cycling isn't boring and doesn't need commentary. It's short, fast and perfect for people with ADD.


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## warrena (Aug 5, 2012)

JaeP said:


> I tried watching the Olympic road race on line (no commentary, just ambient sounds) and it was boring as HELL.


I found it comical! It was just watching guys ride bikes!

Broadcasting sports is hard and there a few in the US anyway who are any good at it. I will listen to baseball and football as a distraction and find many of those guys just like to talk, like the sound of their own voices and add little to the game. Attempt to impress us with some arcane little factoid they just discovered in the game program or gleaned elsewhere.

Have a look at the Youtube video titled:

Tour de France 2003 - Armstrong attacks Ullrich after Fall

Amazing coverage from Phil and Paul!

Cycling has many even spots with very little action yet Phil and Paul seem to fill it in nicely. Not to mention the excitement they add to the sprints.I watched ~80% of the tour this year on line and enjoyed every second of it!

Warren

BTW I'm now here and didn't see anything in the rules I skimmed through but is it ok to link to Youtube videos directly? Not sure so I just gave the clues.

Thanks,

W


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## LostViking (Jul 18, 2008)

bayAreaDude said:


> I watched every minute of every stage this year and don't recall Phil ever even mentioning LA. Sure I could have missed it but there was definitely not much Armstrong talk.


@bay - you must have gone out for a break but I clearly remember Phil quoteing almost verbatim the Armstrong Legal Team's line against the USADA investigation - including "the most tested athelete ever" and "what purpose does it all serve?" lines - can't recall which stage it was though - a mountain stage I think. Don't know if he mentioned LA by name - was in connection with Bruynell not being at the Tour I think.

You are right in that there was not as much of that as in previous TdFs - which was a relief.

But I have to agree with other posters here who have said that none of the alternative commentators or commentator teams are as interesting as P&P+B.


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## robdamanii (Feb 13, 2006)

warrena said:


> Well I've been watching Phil and Paul for over 17 years if memory serves. I got hooked on cycling ~1995.
> 
> I don't have a TV at present and am curious about Eurosport. Is it available on-line? Will World Championships and Vuelta be on it?
> 
> ...


Steephill.tv.


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## Cinelli 82220 (Dec 2, 2010)

Saw this and wished Phil was narrating the weight lifting...


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## lewdvig (Oct 4, 2004)

Maybe change is good? 

I am getting kind of sick of Liggett and Sherwin repeating the same lines. He should ride the ride of his life into the sunset because today he rode himself right out of the tour. LOL


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## poppy (May 29, 2006)

*Let him go (them)*

I know it's a little late for the party but after reading this morning his comments regarding USADA decesion on Lance case I am convinced his best days are long gone, I felt that way reading his interview before the Olympics but now even more so.

I wish I have an alternative to the NBC coverage but that is the only option where I live, the coverage for the latest race in Colorado was the worst I can remember, more commercial time then riding time, with Phil, Paul and Bob it start too look more and more like "The Muppet Show"... 
NBC need to let all three of the go.


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## trailrunner68 (Apr 23, 2011)

poppy said:


> I know it's a little late for the party but after reading this morning his comments regarding USADA decesion on Lance case I am convinced his best days are long gone, I felt that way reading his interview before the Olympics but now even more so.
> 
> I wish I have an alternative to the NBC coverage but that is the only option where I live, the coverage for the latest race in Colorado was the worst I can remember, more commercial time then riding time, with Phil, Paul and Bob it start too look more and more like "The Muppet Show"...
> NBC need to let all three of the go.


Liggett should have retired five or six years ago. He is long past it. He spends as much time correcting mistakes as he does commentating, and his commentary is just a bunch of catch phrases strung together.

His defense of doping is embarrassing. He needs to tossed overboard if the sport is to move forwared.

Matt Keenan, the Aussie, should be brought in. I catch him on streams from time to time and he is knowledgeable. Plus he has an accent that Americans would like.


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## thechriswebb (Nov 21, 2008)

poppy said:


> I know it's a little late for the party but after reading this morning his comments regarding USADA decesion on Lance case I am convinced his best days are long gone, I felt that way reading his interview before the Olympics but now even more so.
> 
> I wish I have an alternative to the NBC coverage but that is the only option where I live, the coverage for the latest race in Colorado was the worst I can remember, more commercial time then riding time, with Phil, Paul and Bob it start too look more and more like "The Muppet Show"...
> NBC need to let all three of the go.


I hear you on Colorado. I'm usually in the "just be glad you're watching racing" camp but the coverage on that race was so unbelievably bad it was disgraceful.


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