# Bianchi sizing (Sempre, maybe Infinito)



## qatarbhoy

Dear Celestial Beings, greetings!

Being a man of good taste and some refinement, I'm interested in Bianchis. Specifically the Sempre but with a hint of Infinito lust. 

I'm about 5'11", maybe a tad more, and having jammed a tape measure in my crotch etc etc I reckon my cycling inseam is about 35". Comp Cyclist's fit guide suggests a 55cm frame (ie 55cm effective top tube), but Bianchi's size guide suggests a 57cm (or 58cm, but Sempres don't come in that size).

I welcome your input on this sizing dilemma. (The bigger dilemma is getting the $$$ and spousal agreement for the bike, but that's another thread.)

Grazie! :thumbsup:


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## adjtogo

I own both a 2011 Sempre with the 105 mix and an 2011 Infinito Ultegra 6700 and I take the same exact frame size for both bikes. I'm 5'8" with a 30" inseam and have 55cm frames. The difference is in the geometry of the bike, so you need to decide what kind of ride you want. The Sempre is more race oriented with a more aggressive geometry while the Infinito has a more relaxed and upright geometry for more comfortable long distance rides. 

I like both bikes, but I do favor the Infinito more. I've had it the longest and have nearly 3500 miles on it compared to the Sempre, which I bought in June and have nearly 1K on it. 

For your height, I bet you're a 57 cm frame. I think you would be at the very top end of a 55cm and might feel cramped up on one. 

To avoid the debate with the wife, buy her a diamond ring and buy yourself the Infinito.


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## kbwh

I'm 184 cm (6' 3/8"), and I have long legs. My Infinito is 57 cm, but a Sempre (or Oltre) would probably be 59 with an 1 cm shorter stem. By choosing the Infinito smaller it becomes a bit racier.

For being so long legged my effective torso length on the bike is medium-long, so I use quite a lot of set back and a longer and lower front end than most guys my height. I have a big wingspan too. 193 cm between fingertips. Lanky is the word I guess.


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## qatarbhoy

Thanks for the replies gentlemen... Looks like a 57cm in either frame would be better than a 55cm. ADJ, can you elaborate on why you prefer the Infinito? In my case, most of my riding is solo 'training' or fairly casual group rides (with the usual sprinkling of attacks, roadsign sprints etc) with the possibility of racing in the future. I also like doing the occasional endurance ride which for me means anything 100km+ (I'm 90% posing, 10% legs). 

This mix of riding suggests Infinito, but from the reviews I've read I prefer the sound of the 'race-ready yet comfortable' Sempre over the Infinito's more relaxed geo and (allegedly) slightly flexy frame. I take your point kbwh about getting a smaller Infinito to achieve a more aggressive fit. All input very much appreciated.

NB the tip about diamonds was spot on.


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## bottecchia_eja

I just recently purchased a 2012 Infinito, I have put over 600 miles on her (in a month's time) and I find it to be the most comfortable bike I've owned. I am not a fast rider, but I like to go long distance and I love mashing it up the hills near my home. 

You, of course, need to decide which bike is best for you based on your riding style. Either bike you choose, it will be an excellent choice. Bianchi makes great bikes and, in my opinion, they are currently underpriced. 

BTW, I hope it wasn't too painful jamming a ruler up your crotch. LOL

Hope you will soon join the Passione Celeste club.

Benvenuto!


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## qatarbhoy

bottecchia_eja said:


> I just recently purchased a 2012 Infinito, I have put over 600 miles on her (in a month's time) and I find it to be the most comfortable bike I've owned. I am not a fast rider, but I like to go long distance and I love mashing it up the hills near my home.
> 
> You, of course, need to decide which bike is best for you based on your riding style. Either bike you choose, it will be an excellent choice. Bianchi makes great bikes and, in my opinion, they are currently underpriced.
> 
> BTW, I hope it wasn't too painful jamming a ruler up your crotch. LOL
> 
> Hope you will soon join the Passione Celeste club.
> 
> Benvenuto!


I'm not fast but I aspire to be faster. I also don't really ride particularly long distances but I would like to ride for longer and further. What I really need is a Semprenito, although I've heard the Infinipre is also good.

PS tape measure FTW, so no pain was incurred. :idea: The only pain is unrequited bike lust.


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## kbwh

Just make sure it's Celeste. A Celeste frame fits better and rides faster than any other.


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## pickled

I had a proper bike fit done when I got my Sempre. I'm 5'8" (just) and I'm on a 55 with 100 stem.
Fits like a glove.

I'd previously been riding a 53 via Nirone.


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## qatarbhoy

pickled said:


> I had a proper bike fit done when I got my Sempre. I'm 5'8" (just) and I'm on a 55 with 100 stem.
> Fits like a glove.
> 
> I'd previously been riding a 53 via Nirone.


Cheers Pickled: more evidence that a 55cm would be too small for me. :thumbsup:



kbwh said:


> Just make sure it's Celeste. A Celeste frame fits better and rides faster than any other.


This is not in question. However,_ - whisper it -_ I may not go with Campy...


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## adjtogo

qatarbhoy said:


> Cheers Pickled: more evidence that a 55cm would be too small for me. :thumbsup:
> 
> 
> 
> This is not in question. However,_ - whisper it -_ I may not go with Campy...


Exactly. I'm also 5'8" and am riding a 55cm Sempre. If I were you. I'd go to a LBS that carries Bianchi and get properly fitted. I can just about assure you that the 55cm size is going to be too small for you.


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## qatarbhoy

adjtogo said:


> Exactly. I'm also 5'8" and am riding a 55cm Sempre. If I were you. I'd go to a LBS that carries Bianchi and get properly fitted. I can just about assure you that the 55cm size is going to be too small for you.


Hmm, good suggestion but that's a journey of a cupla thousand miles, I reckon.


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## Lolamunky

I have spent a TON of time fitting myself as well as working with coaches/fitters and I can tell you that your inseam means NOTHING....I promise. Here is how you fit yourself on a bike.

1 - How long are your femurs vs the your fib/tib(lower vs upper leg)..this will give you your setback(saddle fore/aft).
2 - Now that your saddle is correct fore/aft figure out the height which is usually your inseam X .883 give or take 1cm. After this you might repeat step 1 and 2 a few times until you feel like you have a comfortable ride position.
3 - Once the engine is in place(your legs) now fit your upper body so you ride at a height suitable for your speed/distance goals and flexibility.

So what frame is right? Its the size that allows your legs to push with maximal muscle recruitment while giving you a reach that works for your torso length. Ride a TT bike and you will learn all this like it was your job.

I cant tell you what size to get but I ride an Infinito and at 5'9" with a 32.75" inseam in socks and its a 53cm and here is why. I have a short torso, long lower legs and short upper legs so I have to sit with a saddle setback of 15-20mm so my knee is over the peddle axle and then a tiny bit in front of it for power. Because I have short upper legs I need the 53cm or the setback would be impossible to accomplish even with a 0SB seatpost. Then I run a 130mm stem to compensate for the length I lose from the saddle moving forward.

Lastly consider headtube height...the infinito has a MASSIVE headtube so if you ride low you will need negative angle stem to lower the bars. It also has a longer wheelbase so a 53cm is close to a 55cm in total wheelbase. 

Everyone has something that defines the frame they need, for me its short upper legs which keep me on 53cm bikes unless they have a steep seatube angle...which is exactly the difference between a 53cm and a 55cm Infinito...the reach is only 5mm longer but the top tube is 1.5cm longer which tells you that the length is added behind the BB.

I know its confusing but if you're pretty average with no special requirements like crazy setback or none at all I think you're a 55cm with a 120mm stem. The headtube will be tall so be ready to replace the stem with a negative angle if you ride aggressively.


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## Lolamunky

Bianchi Geometry - Competitive Cyclist

this will show you the real sizes of the frames....not the BS seatube length sizing


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## bottecchia_eja

Lolamunky said:


> I have spent a TON of time fitting myself as well as working with coaches/fitters and I can tell you that your inseam means NOTHING....I promise. Here is how you fit yourself on a bike.
> 
> 1 - How long are your femurs vs the your fib/tib(lower vs upper leg)..this will give you your setback(saddle fore/aft).
> 2 - Now that your saddle is correct fore/aft figure out the height which is usually your inseam X .883 give or take 1cm. After this you might repeat step 1 and 2 a few times until you feel like you have a comfortable ride position.
> 3 - Once the engine is in place(your legs) now fit your upper body so you ride at a height suitable for your speed/distance goals and flexibility.
> 
> So what frame is right? Its the size that allows your legs to push with maximal muscle recruitment while giving you a reach that works for your torso length. Ride a TT bike and you will learn all this like it was your job.
> 
> I cant tell you what size to get but I ride an Infinito and at 5'9" with a 32.75" inseam in socks and its a 53cm and here is why. I have a short torso, long lower legs and short upper legs so I have to sit with a saddle setback of 15-20mm so my knee is over the peddle axle and then a tiny bit in front of it for power. Because I have short upper legs I need the 53cm or the setback would be impossible to accomplish even with a 0SB seatpost. Then I run a 130mm stem to compensate for the length I lose from the saddle moving forward.
> 
> Lastly consider headtube height...the infinito has a MASSIVE headtube so if you ride low you will need negative angle stem to lower the bars. It also has a longer wheelbase so a 53cm is close to a 55cm in total wheelbase.
> 
> Everyone has something that defines the frame they need, for me its short upper legs which keep me on 53cm bikes unless they have a steep seatube angle...which is exactly the difference between a 53cm and a 55cm Infinito...the reach is only 5mm longer but the top tube is 1.5cm longer which tells you that the length is added behind the BB.
> 
> I know its confusing but if you're pretty average with no special requirements like crazy setback or none at all I think you're a 55cm with a 120mm stem. The headtube will be tall so be ready to replace the stem with a negative angle if you ride aggressively.


Best piece of advice regarding sizing I have seen in a post. I am an "odd" size so my LBS spent quite a bit of time sizing me up before we decided on a 53cm frame. I already have over 700 miles on my new bike and I've not felt this comfy on any other bike.

Listen to Lola, this is good advice. :thumbsup:


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## qatarbhoy

Thanks Lola, loads of food for thought there - I did a quick measure-up using the CC fit calculator, of course if a Bianchi is in my future I will need to do the measurements more accurately. The ones I did pointed to a 55cm (25" thigh, 22" lower leg; 26" trunk, 27" arm FWIW) but for the Sempre at last that appears to be too small.


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## kbwh

Just don*t forget that the only "fit" difference between the two is that head tube length. All the others are "handling".

Very good writeup, Lola.


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## jj1960

I recently got a 2011 Infinito frame as a replacement for a cracked Luna frame. I'm 5'9" and rode a 57 in the Luna. I test rode both 55 and 57 in the Infinito and went with a 57 and 110 stem. The 55 felt just a little too cramped for my liking. And while yes the Infinito head tube is tall, it's no taller than the Luna that I ran with a couple of spacers under the stem. I run the Infintio stem flat on the head tube with a compact bar and one spacer above the stem as an option.

As far as speed is concerned, the Infinito is faster than the Luna was on my 30 mile after work loop and I also think just as stiff. If anything, as has been stated on these boards ad nausea, it's not as twitchy. I do solo and group rides several times a week and for me this is the perfect frame. I would imagine if I was still considering racing I may have gone with the Sempre as it was closer in geometry to the Luna. 

Good luck in your venture.


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## qatarbhoy

Thanks JJ. :thumbsup:

Both bikes are gorgeous and I would enjoy the riding characteristics of either one. On factor is that I can get a better deal on the Sempre and every $$$ counts, not least for the purpose of spousal approval. But yes, whatever I go with (assuming I get a new bike at all), I absolutely have to get the fit right because sending a bike back 1000s of miles would not be amusing.

So, if kbwh and jj are both riding 57cm Infinitos, yet KB is nearly 6'1" and jj is 5'9", and jj's stem is 110mm, what length is your stem (ahem, not c0de), kbwh? 

If it helps, my current bike is a 58cm Trek 2.1 from 2009. It has an effective top tube of 57.3cm and a 100mm stem, which I have resting on a single 5mm spacer (and I like riding in the drops). The saddle nose is 85mm behind the BB centre. I feel like I want to move the saddle forward a tad, and I often ride 'on the rivet' to get more power down, but the saddle's on the limit mark on the rails (albeit that's not far ahead of the rails' centre so it might have some more leeway: it's certainly not slammed all the way forward). 

I feel _slightly _stretched on this bike so if I were buying another Trek I'd test ride a 56cm for sure, just to see if it were a better fit.

Here are the current 2.1 geos, they seem the same as on my model.

Trek Bicycle


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## kbwh

12 cm (plain language...). It's set up this way:










A 5mm spacer under the 3T ARX stem, and bars are 3T Ergonova. A wee bit of setback too, as you can see.


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## qatarbhoy

kbwh said:


> 12 cm (plain language...). It's set up this way:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> A 5mm spacer under the 3T ARX stem, and bars are 3T Ergonova. A wee bit of setback too, as you can see.


Thanks for the details, kbwh. Yes, _quite_ a bit of setback... I'd feel like I was hanging onto the bars for dear life!  But you have a great looking bicycle there. 

So, 57cm Infinito or either 57cm or _possibly_ 59cm Sempre (suspect 57 at present, I think kbwh has a bit more lankiness than me)... Now to find those $$$... nothing down the back of the sofa... 

I'm now looking at 80mm and 90mm stems for my current ride. I think a 90mm plus a tiny nudge forward of my saddle would do it. 80mm might be too drastic and twitchy. Nothing like a little upgrade while planning for _the_ bike... :thumbsup:


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## Lolamunky

There is almost no difference between the Infinito and the Sempre, to be honest its more about stiffness and headtube angle(the steepness of the fork). The Infinito has a slightly longer chain stay so its wheelbase is a touch longer and its headtube larger, the sempre is stiffer through the BB, has external cable routing and a short headtube....other than that its the same bike as far as fitting. 

The sempre will feel longer because its fork angle is .5 degrees steeper which is about 5mm in functional length and its headtube is shorter so your stem will be lower without spacers.

The infinito will feel larger underneath you because of the wheel base and have more shock absorption because its carbon layup is more for touring than stiffness alone like the Sempre. But still, you may not even be able to feel the difference.....I know I barely felt it when I tried a Sempre. 

No matter which model you choose you will love it...and I think 55cm is your size. If its not right at first dont worry.....stems go up to 140mm so unless you grow to be 6'2" you will be fine.


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## qatarbhoy

Lolamunky said:


> No matter which model you choose you will love it...and I think 55cm is your size. If its not right at first dont worry.....stems go up to 140mm so unless you grow to be 6'2" you will be fine.


I think you're right, I'd love either one, and I take your point about the frames differing more in characteristics than any issue of size between the two models. 

Nonetheless, from what Pickled, KBWH and ADJ have said, I'm thinking 57cm would make a better frame size for me. If people 5' 8-9" are saying a 55cm is perfect for them, I can't help thinking I'm better off with a 57cm, like kbwh.

So the only problem now is the several 1000 $$$ required. :cryin: :mad2: .......


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## Lolamunky

Buy one used and save a grand imo


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## tkmeister

I am 6' and ride 57cm with 100mm stem, 172.5 crankset. I had a 110mm stem and that was a bit of a stretch for me. I love my Sempre though. I can comfortably ride 4-5hrs without any problems.


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## qatarbhoy

tkmeister said:


> I am 6' and ride 57cm with 100mm stem, 172.5 crankset. I had a 110mm stem and that was a bit of a stretch for me. I love my Sempre though. I can comfortably ride 4-5hrs without any problems.


Brilliant, just what I wanted to hear! BRING ON PAY DAY. 

Well, several pay days... 

Thanks everyone for all the input and suggestions.


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## tkmeister

And here's the picture. I got the SRAM Force components and Hed Ardennes LT wheels.


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## qatarbhoy

Beautiful bike, but something's wrong with my monitor - the colours are showing up as black and red rather than celeste...


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## bottecchia_eja

qatarbhoy said:


> Beautiful bike, but something's wrong with my monitor - the colours are showing up as black and red rather than celeste...


Drole, c'est tres drole!


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## qatarbhoy

bottecchia_eja said:


> Drole, c'est tres drole!


Please rep it. I always rep back. :thumbsup:

PS I spot Conti GP 4000s. Is there a better tyre for the money?


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## stickboybike

On the Bianchi geometry charts, use the B1 geometry which is the virtual top tube measurement--true frame size.


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## stumonky

What size did the OP end up getting on the Sempre?

I found this thread on a search as I am looking at getting an 2012 Sempre through Competitive Cyclist (with the Force groupo). I am 5’10” with an inseam of 32”. I was leaning towards 57 or 59, mainly towards the later due to I have long arms (I currently ride a custom Waltworks frame that is a 57 size with a 59 size ETT).

Any reviews on the bike would be appreciated (perhaps that can be found in another thread).


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## qatarbhoy

stumonky said:


> What size did the OP end up getting on the Sempre?


Hi Stu Monky, I ended up getting a BMC RaceMachine in a 55cm frame size, as part of CompetitiveCyclist's stonking BMC deals last year.


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## kbwh

I wouldn't increase frame size because of long arms, but stem length and/or saddle to bar drop.


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## stumonky

qatarbhoy said:


> Hi Stu Monky, I ended up getting a BMC RaceMachine in a 55cm frame size, as part of CompetitiveCyclist's stonking BMC deals last year.


I was looking at the BMC Road Racer SL01 also. My local shop reps BMC but they have had some issues with support (that may be due to them being a small shop though). 



kbwh said:


> I wouldn't increase frame size because of long arms, but stem length and/or saddle to bar drop.


After going by the shop yesterday, I think I am going to do that exactly. I have ridden an assortment of sizes in my many years of mountain biking and have made up for TT length with longer stems and laid-back posts. I threw a leg over a 55cm Bianchi 928 and a 53cm Pinarello FP2 yesterday and both seemed to fit (and both cost less than my budget).


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