# Why no US Grand Tour?



## Nubster (Jul 8, 2009)

Just curious, why isn't there an American grand tour race?


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## OnTheRivet (Sep 3, 2004)

Nubster said:


> Just curious, why isn't there an American grand tour race?


They could never really have a US grand tour as logistically they'd only be able to include a few states as stage transfers would be HUGE and unbearable. France is about the size of Colorado and New Mexico combined and riders already complain about transfers in the TDF, if they tried to include both sides of the country it would be ridiculous. Not to mention the bureaucratic red tape involved.


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## Creakyknees (Sep 21, 2003)

Because nobody has stepped up to pay for it. How's your checkbook looking?


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## Nubster (Jul 8, 2009)

Creakyknees said:


> Because nobody has stepped up to pay for it. How's your checkbook looking?


Well, I just made my house payment so it's a bit anemic at the moment.


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## Nubster (Jul 8, 2009)

OnTheRivet said:


> They could never really have a US grand tour as logistically they'd only be able to include a few states as stage transfers would be HUGE and unbearable. France is about the size of Colorado and New Mexico combined and riders already complain about transfers in the TDF, if they tried to include both sides of the country it would be ridiculous. Not to mention the bureaucratic red tape involved.


That's understandable. But even if they only included a few states, I'd assume they'd likely be Rocky Mountain states, something that lasted several weeks and covered a couple thousand miles would be pretty awesome to host in the US. I just always wondered why there wasn't one.


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## thechriswebb (Nov 21, 2008)

Nubster said:


> Just curious, why isn't there an American grand tour race?


To get sponsors willing to make it happen, there would need to be some guarantee of attendance by some of the big stars from Europe. The logistical challenges would prevent that. It would be a very, very expensive endeavor for a race that would not be attended by Nibali, Valverde, Froome, Cavendish, or Purito. There also really isn't room for another Grand Tour in the calendar.

Right now I'm just happy to have three decent and improving stage races in the US that bring some good riders across the pond. I miss having one on my side of the country though. RIP TdG.


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## NJBiker72 (Jul 9, 2011)

thechriswebb said:


> To get sponsors willing to make it happen, there would need to be some guarantee of attendance by some of the big stars from Europe. The logistical challenges would prevent that. It would be a very, very expensive endeavor for a race that would not be attended by Nibali, Valverde, Froome, Cavendish, or Purito. There also really isn't room for another Grand Tour in the calendar.
> 
> Right now I'm just happy to have three decent and improving stage races in the US that bring some good riders across the pond. I miss having one on my side of the country though. RIP TdG.


While I generally agree with this, there is no reason they would not attend if the funding was there. Not happening anytime soon. But as the sport gains popularity? I would love to see it.


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## 32and3cross (Feb 28, 2005)

Its pretty much all down to money and to the fact that in the US cycling is a fringe sport. So while in Europe towns might want (pay) to have a race start/finish or even to have to race pass through here the logistics would likely include trying to bypass aras that did not want to race to come through. Add to that the race org would have to pony up for all the police escort and file with multiple states etc, thats why you see the US races staying withe in one state atm. 

In the past we had tours that when down the East coast but lack of funding/interest and the general lack on interest from the top teams in the world to come over (yes I know the big teams did come but not alot of them and often not with the best riders, stories of the euro guys being out drinking every night during the tour de trump tour abound) ended those.


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## Retro Grouch (Apr 30, 2002)

It was attempted in 2008 and was dead on arrival.

Tour Of America Cancels For 2008 | Cyclingnews.com

Given how damaged the sports is in the US due the exploits of Lance, I'd say we won't see it anytime soon.


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## den bakker (Nov 13, 2004)

Retro Grouch said:


> It was attempted in 2008 and was dead on arrival.
> 
> Tour Of America Cancels For 2008 | Cyclingnews.com
> 
> Given how damaged the sports is in the US due the exploits of Lance, I'd say we won't see it anytime soon.


and would not have happened anytime soon without him either.


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## mikerp (Jul 24, 2011)

Might have something to do with not being able to view decent coverage of the existing races. The final stage of the Pro Challenge was dumped for Indy race coverage.


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## looigi (Nov 24, 2010)

mikerp said:


> Might have something to do with not being able to view decent coverage of the existing races. The final stage of the Pro Challenge was dumped for Indy race coverage.


It wasn't dumped entirely. They switched channels. Did that on Sat's stage too. Of course it's all about the money. Advertisers will pay a lot more to advertise during Indy race coverage. 

LA did "damage" cycling in a sense, but all the hullabaloo about it has brought road racing back into the general populace's consciousness. IMO, this is probably more good for cycling than bad in the balance. "There's no such thing as bad publicity."

As others have pointed out, a grand tour in the US wouldn't have to cover the entire 50 states each running. It could move around year to year. I agree that it would cost a lot and take a quite a few years to become established, meaning it would take even a greater investment before it started showing a return, if it ever did. The existing GTs have a rich history and tremendous amount of goodwill built up over all the years of their running. US would be starting from scratch. I doubt there's anybody or any organization willing to take that kind of risk. 

I think there are ways to make road racing more broadly popular, but they'd take a major overhaul of the entire system as it exists now.


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## upstateSC-rider (Aug 21, 2004)

Because most Americans aren't patient enough to let a 15-person group ride without flying by on a blind-curve then generating a seething Letter-to-the-Editor about cyclists not paying road taxes...What do you think they would do to a 200-man peloton?


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## foto (Feb 7, 2005)

Where in the calendar would a 4th GT fit? Who would go? It would be grueling and have zero prestige. 

Not a good idea, imo.


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## tlg (May 11, 2011)

Because 'Mericans don't like cycling that much and the last thing they want is having their roads closed so that skinny guys in tights can race on the roads. Think about all the people who will be delayed getting to Walmart.


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## AdamM (Jul 9, 2008)

Currently there's no room on the schedule for another grand tour. Spring classics run up to the Giro then the TDF one week prep races, TDF then the Vuelta/Worlds, followed by the Fall classics.


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## Jay Strongbow (May 8, 2010)

What's a Grand Tour? It's my understanding that it's just a name for the three specific races similar to how the Triple Crown is the name for three specific horse races and the Grand Slam is the name for however many specific tennis matches.

Similar to how the Masters golf tourney is a tourey in the US the Grand Tours are bike races in Europe and that's just a name not a size of race that's up for bid for other countries to potentially have.


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## JCavilia (Sep 12, 2005)

Nubster said:


> That's understandable. But even if they only included a few states, I'd assume they'd likely be Rocky Mountain states, something that lasted several weeks and covered a couple thousand miles would be pretty awesome to host in the US. I just always wondered why there wasn't one.


Something like that has been done in the past, but it didn't last. The Coors Classic in the 80's began as a 3-day stage race in Colorado, but eventually grew to a two-week race with stages in California, Nevada and other western states (I saw Greg Lemond and Bernard Hinault racing in a crit on Fisherman's Wharf in San Francisco in 1985). But the sport still doesn't have - and didn't even in Lance's heyday - the broad following here to attract the huge sponsorship that the Euro races get. So there just isn't the money.

Add to that the logistical problem of the other major races being in Europe, so to have the top competitors you'd have to transport a lot of people and equipment across the ocean in the middle of the Euro racing season. 

It's still a European sport, for the most part.


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## 32and3cross (Feb 28, 2005)

This things death had zero to do withe Lance what was suggested was totally undoable.


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## mikerp (Jul 24, 2011)

looigi said:


> It wasn't dumped entirely. They switched channels. Did that on Sat's stage too.


Yep, I watched the start, then it turned to Indy. I'm about ready to subscribe to an internet channel.


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## foto (Feb 7, 2005)

Jay Strongbow said:


> What's a Grand Tour? It's my understanding that it's just a name for the three specific races similar to how the Triple Crown is the name for three specific horse races and the Grand Slam is the name for however many specific tennis matches.
> 
> Similar to how the Masters golf tourney is a tourey in the US the Grand Tours are bike races in Europe and that's just a name not a size of race that's up for bid for other countries to potentially have.


A GT is a 3 week race.


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## tlg (May 11, 2011)

Jay Strongbow said:


> What's a Grand Tour?


Let me google that for you

In road bicycle racing, a Grand Tour refers to one of the three major European professional cycling stage races: Tour de France, Giro d'Italia and Vuelta a España. Collectively they are termed the Grand Tours, and all three races are similar in format being multi-week races with daily stages. They have a special status in the UCI regulations: more points for the UCI World Tour are distributed in Grand Tours than in other races,[1] and they are the only stage races allowed to last longer than 14 days.[2]

In their current form, the Grand Tours are held over three consecutive weeks and typically include two "rest" days near the end of the first and second week. The stages are a mix of long massed start races (sometimes including mountain and hill climbs and descents; others are flat stages favoring those with a sprint finish), as well as individual and team time trials and non-competitive exhibition and rest days. Unlike most one-day races, stages in the Grand Tours are generally under 200 kilometers in length.


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## Nubster (Jul 8, 2009)

Maybe they can just add a week of racing between the Tour of Utah and the US Pro and make it a GT...lol...anyways, thanks for the explanations. It clears up why we don't and probably won't have a GT in the USA.


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## Mapei (Feb 3, 2004)

To me it's a simple matter of geography. That is, there's too much geography to have to cover. On the other hand, a three week tour of the West Coast, New England, Mid-Atlantic, or Southeastern States would be fine. And weather-wise, a Dead of Winter Tour of the Southwest states -- California, Arizona, New Mexico, Texas, etc. would work, too.


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## JSR (Feb 27, 2006)

Mapei said:


> And weather-wise, a Dead of Winter Tour of the Southwest states -- California, Arizona, New Mexico, Texas, etc. would work, too.


Nah, that doesn't work, either. The Tour of Californian has already proven that the steep climbs necessary for a good test are not available in the winter, even in sunny SoCal.


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## Nubster (Jul 8, 2009)

Mapei said:


> To me it's a simple matter of geography. That is, there's too much geography to have to cover. On the other hand, a three week tour of the West Coast, New England, Mid-Atlantic, or Southeastern States would be fine. And weather-wise, a Dead of Winter Tour of the Southwest states -- California, Arizona, New Mexico, Texas, etc. would work, too.


Well, I guess when I think of a US Gran Tour, it doesn't need to be a tour of the whole USA. I think that either have it setup to cover just 2 or 3 states that would give appropriate conditions to make for a good tour but to be three weeks and enough miles to make it a Gran Tour. I mean seriously, if they raced the week between the Tour of Utah and the US Pro, that could easily be a GT. Week one in UT, second week could take the racers from Utah to Colorado. Then finish the third week in CO. 

Or have it rotate yearly like you said.


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## irish (Apr 8, 2004)

Personally, I think you've hit on the best course -
Tour of Utah, Tour of Colorado (US PRO), Tour of Canada(?) 

Have 3 really strong week-long stage races that serve as an attractive alternative to doing post-tour crits and the Vuelta.

Looking at some of the crowds during the US Pro Challenge, I was pretty impressed. The organizers also made some really good route decisions by starting/finishing in the same city. Denver's circuit stage was very reminiscent of Paris...


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## looigi (Nov 24, 2010)

irish said:


> ...Denver's circuit stage was very reminiscent of Paris...


I've spent some time in both those cities. One does not remotely remind me of the other. 

A circuit in San Francisco could be pretty wild!


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## love4himies (Jun 12, 2012)

irish said:


> personally, i think you've hit on the best course -
> tour of utah, tour of colorado (us pro), tour of *Alberta*(?)
> 
> have 3 really strong week-long stage races that serve as an attractive alternative to doing post-tour crits and the vuelta.
> ...


fify.

Followed by two Grand Prixs in La Belle Province-Quebec.


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## irish (Apr 8, 2004)

looigi said:


> I've spent some time in both those cities. One does not remotely remind me of the other.
> 
> A circuit in San Francisco could be pretty wild!


Agree 100% that there's no comparison - it was more of "construction of the stage"..

For S.F.: There are so many different routes they could use in the city - just the Embarcadero itself would be interesting from the speed and scenery even if it's about the flattest route they could find.


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## 32and3cross (Feb 28, 2005)

looigi said:


> A circuit in San Francisco could be pretty wild!


We had that unfortunatly the promoters abused the city so much that I doubt it will ever happen again. It was a amazing race.


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## atpjunkie (Mar 23, 2002)

foto said:


> Where in the calendar would a 4th GT fit? Who would go? It would be grueling and have zero prestige.
> 
> Not a good idea, imo.


exactly, there just aren't enough warm months. And what riders would want to do the prep for a 4th GT. Hard enough to get them to prep for 2


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## NJBiker72 (Jul 9, 2011)

atpjunkie said:


> exactly, there just aren't enough warm months. And what riders would want to do the prep for a 4th GT. Hard enough to get them to prep for 2


They will ride where they get paid to. If the US companies thought it was a big enough draw, there would be a grand tour here. It would not be.


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## foto (Feb 7, 2005)

NJBiker72 said:


> They will ride where they get paid to. If the US companies thought it was a big enough draw, there would be a grand tour here. It would not be.


who is "they"?


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## NJBiker72 (Jul 9, 2011)

foto said:


> who is "they"?


Professional cyclists.

You do know why they are called "Professional"?


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## dougclaysmith (Oct 17, 2009)

mikerp said:


> Yep, I watched the start, then it turned to Indy. I'm about ready to subscribe to an internet channel.


You needed to flip over to NBC. (The flagship channel, the one with the news on it, the big one, the main one) It was good to see cycling on one of the Big Three channels during the day.


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## foto (Feb 7, 2005)

NJBiker72 said:


> Professional cyclists.
> 
> You do know why they are called "Professional"?


Racers don't get paid by the race. They get paid out of a contract, the winnings and possible US sponsorships would have to be so big as to be worth giving up WT points and being competitive in important races.

How much would it cost to get a top pro, let's say Jrod, to race in the US and forgo his chances at success in, say, one of the other GTs, the WC, or hilly classic?

That's where this thing called "prestige" comes in...


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## Undecided (Apr 2, 2007)

Yes, SFGP was a great race. Without saying the promoters didn't abuse the city, I think the more general problem was that the costs were just too big for anybody (the promoter, the city, businesses) to think it was worth paying them. And if you can't solve that problem in SF, I guess it's hard to imagine solving them in any major U.S. city.


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## NJBiker72 (Jul 9, 2011)

foto said:


> Racers don't get paid by the race. They get paid out of a contract, the winnings and possible US sponsorships would have to be so big as to be worth giving up WT points and being competitive in important races.
> 
> How much would it cost to get a top pro, let's say Jrod, to race in the US and forgo his chances at success in, say, one of the other GTs, the WC, or hilly classic?
> 
> That's where this thing called "prestige" comes in...


Considering Froome got about $590k for the Tour de France. Position the Tour of America far enough back of France (overlap with the Vuelta?) give a prize of $2MM and you would get top riders. Even moreso from US capitalized teams, in whole or in part. Garmin could clearly use it for their riders. All the major bike companies would like it as well. 

But right now, there is not enough interest to make it worthwhile. What has to be done first is to make the Tour de France more entertaining. More riders like Cav knocking over their opponents should do it . . . 

But if we could up the interest in the current televised races, then we could see this as a possibility. I think, the idea posted in another thread about hooking the pro bikes up to computers and giving better live feedback (speed, power, cadence, heart rate) would help. Better viewing angles. Cameras on the bikes (get GoPro or a competitor to sponsor it). 

All this would make the viewing better. Yes, rule changes would be needed. But they are needed.


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## asgelle (Apr 21, 2003)

NJBiker72 said:


> Considering Froome got about $590k for the Tour de France.


There's your first mistake. Froome got nothing from TdF.


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## Nubster (Jul 8, 2009)

NJBiker72 said:


> I think, the idea posted in another thread about hooking the pro bikes up to computers and giving better live feedback (speed, power, cadence, heart rate) would help. Better viewing angles. Cameras on the bikes (get GoPro or a competitor to sponsor it).


That would be pretty cool. Live stats from select riders each stage...and on bike cameras would be pretty neat too.


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## foto (Feb 7, 2005)

NJBiker72 said:


> Considering Froome got about $590k for the Tour de France. Position the Tour of America far enough back of France (overlap with the Vuelta?) give a prize of $2MM and you would get top riders. Even moreso from US capitalized teams, in whole or in part. Garmin could clearly use it for their riders. All the major bike companies would like it as well.
> 
> But right now, there is not enough interest to make it worthwhile. What has to be done first is to make the Tour de France more entertaining. More riders like Cav knocking over their opponents should do it . . .
> 
> ...


I missed that thread. But sounds fun.

What I would want would be kinda like those televised poker games (which is the most boring tv ever, trust me, I tried to watch it). Where the TV displays the odds of winning, but the players have less info. For cycling that could be something like: speed/power the break needs to produce to stay away. Distance the group needs to start hitting it at X mph to catch the break, etc.


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## love4himies (Jun 12, 2012)

asgelle said:


> There's your first mistake. Froome got nothing from TdF.


According to the Tour de France documents they do get paid for each stage win and each jersey winner.


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## asgelle (Apr 21, 2003)

love4himies said:


> According to the Tour de France documents they do get paid for each stage win and each jersey winner.


Check carefully who this "they" are of which you speak.


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## den bakker (Nov 13, 2004)

foto said:


> I missed that thread. But sounds fun.
> 
> What I would want would be kinda like those televised poker games (which is the most boring tv ever, trust me, I tried to watch it). Where the TV displays the odds of winning, but the players have less info. For cycling that could be something like: speed/power the break needs to produce to stay away. Distance the group needs to start hitting it at X mph to catch the break, etc.


and that is not known already?


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## love4himies (Jun 12, 2012)

asgelle said:


> Check carefully who this "they" are of which you speak.


The prize money may be split up between the team members who helped the winner, but they still get paid. And didn't Froome get a sweet Jag this year?


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## foto (Feb 7, 2005)

den bakker said:


> and that is not known already?


The part you missed was:

"TV displays"


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## asgelle (Apr 21, 2003)

love4himies said:


> The prize money may be split up between the team members who helped the winner, but they still get paid.


Once again, they get nothing from the TdF.


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## Undecided (Apr 2, 2007)

asgelle said:


> Once again, they get nothing from the TdF.


I've never seen the checks, but given media reports like this, could you explain in a bit more detail what you're trying to say?


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## NJBiker72 (Jul 9, 2011)

foto said:


> I missed that thread. But sounds fun.
> 
> What I would want would be kinda like those televised poker games (which is the most boring tv ever, trust me, I tried to watch it). Where the TV displays the odds of winning, but the players have less info. For cycling that could be something like: speed/power the break needs to produce to stay away. Distance the group needs to start hitting it at X mph to catch the break, etc.


I agree, but the key is not to appeal to bike nerds like us, but to the general public. I really think better cams would be the first item.


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## davidka (Dec 12, 2001)

foto said:


> Racers don't get paid by the race. They get paid out of a contract, the winnings and possible US sponsorships would have to be so big as to be worth giving up WT points and being competitive in important races.


True, the racers themselves usually don't get paid by the race (unless you look @ CX or Lance's later years) but it is common for non WT races to pay teams to appear at their events. This is pretty much how the Tour of Oman was born. If there's enough money, they come, WT points or not. 

I thought it would be a good idea for the 3 big US tours to get together and offer a Triple Crown prize for the top 5-10 riders across the 3 race average. Not a GT but something to make a bigger story and get a greater commitment from the racers. Could possibly bump up the UCI rating too? Talking out my ear now, just ideas.


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## NJBiker72 (Jul 9, 2011)

davidka said:


> True, the racers themselves usually don't get paid by the race (unless you look @ CX or Lance's later years) but it is common for non WT races to pay teams to appear at their events. This is pretty much how the Tour of Oman was born. If there's enough money, they come, WT points or not.
> 
> I thought it would be a good idea for the 3 big US tours to get together and offer a Triple Crown prize for the top 5-10 riders across the 3 race average. Not a GT but something to make a bigger story and get a greater commitment from the racers. Could possibly bump up the UCI rating too? Talking out my ear now, just ideas.


I like this idea. A triple crown plus a championship plus large binuses for each and better coverage.


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## Fireform (Dec 15, 2005)

There's room in the calendar for a Vuelta a Argentina.


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## love4himies (Jun 12, 2012)

asgelle said:


> Once again, they get nothing from the TdF.





Undecided said:


> I've never seen the checks, but given media reports like this, could you explain in a bit more detail what you're trying to say?


Or like this one:

Tour de France 2013: Chris Froome given new Jaguar F-Type | Mail Online



> The Tour de France winner was handed a brand new Jaguar V6 F-Type, worth £67,000, for his mammoth efforts during the past three weeks.





> The total prize money for winning the Tour is £380,000, although this is traditionally split between the entire team who helped the winner. That would mean Froome and his eight team-mates would walk away with £42,222 each.


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## Nubster (Jul 8, 2009)

£42,222...not a bad payday for 3 weeks work.


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## NJBiker72 (Jul 9, 2011)

Nubster said:


> £42,222...not a bad payday for 3 weeks work.


Wimbledon paid the winner 1.6 MM pounds for a fortnight.

2013 Wimbledon Championships Website - Official Site by IBM

Think the cyclists might be interested in a bigger pay day.


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## Rokh On (Oct 30, 2011)

Maybe wording it differently would be more appropriate and appease everyone. Since I don't have a copy of Froome's contract I have no clue what he received from his winnings and from who. Does every rider only get their money from the team? I think that is up to the team and the contract with the individual rider. Certainly Froome won a bunch of money for his performance.


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## love4himies (Jun 12, 2012)

Rokh On said:


> Maybe wording it differently would be more appropriate and appease everyone. Since I don't have a copy of Froome's contract I have no clue what he received from his winnings and from who. Does every rider only get their money from the team? I think that is up to the team and the contract with the individual rider. Certainly Froome won a bunch of money for his performance.


I think I read somewhere that with all members of team Sky, the winnings are pooled and at the end of the year it are shared amongst the team and support. However that doesn't negate the fact that Froome got a Jag, and that he will get something from his win. To say he gets nothing is not entirely correct. He doesn't get the whole amount, but he does get something.

Edit: Found something. 

Team Sky wins as Lampre-Merida loses in Tour de France prize money list



> Race tradition has been written into a set of rules at Team Sky, and so all of this money will be shared amongst the riders at the end of the season, with 15% of it given to the team’s staff.


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## foto (Feb 7, 2005)

How many Jags will it take to get Froome to ride a new 3 week race in the US and sacrifice his chances at the TDF?

My point stands.


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## Undecided (Apr 2, 2007)

foto said:


> How many Jags will it take to get Froome to ride a new 3 week race in the US and sacrifice his chances at the TDF?
> 
> My point stands.


Agreed, but still trying to figure out what asgelle meant (isn't that what the string was in response to?).


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## NJBiker72 (Jul 9, 2011)

foto said:


> How many Jags will it take to get Froome to ride a new 3 week race in the US and sacrifice his chances at the TDF?
> 
> My point stands.


No it doesn't. Just the opposite. If he only got a Jag for that, he should be more willing to ride where he gets a big payday.


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## foto (Feb 7, 2005)

NJBiker72 said:


> No it doesn't. Just the opposite. If he only got a Jag for that, he should be more willing to ride where he gets a big payday.


Again, he is a _contract athlete_. He get's paid by team sky. I don't think Sky has much of a market in the US that will benefit them from the exposure of sending their top pro to some shitty race with no prestige.


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## NJBiker72 (Jul 9, 2011)

foto said:


> Again, he is a _contract athlete_. He get's paid by team sky. I don't think Sky has much of a market in the US that will benefit them from the exposure of sending their top pro to some shitty race with no prestige.


Froome and Sky maybe, but most of the teams do have a market here. It is the world's largest market. And all of them are affiliated with bike companies. All of which want to market in the US including Sky. Did you receive Competitive Cyclist's ad today?


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## love4himies (Jun 12, 2012)

foto said:


> Again, he is a _contract athlete_. He get's paid by team sky. I don't think Sky has much of a market in the US that will benefit them from the exposure of sending their top pro to some shitty race with no prestige.


He was at the US Pro Challenge.


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## cyclisme! (Sep 6, 2012)

IF all the stages were crits.... IF street vendors sold all kinds of junk food to spectators...If there was some moron who talks like he has 2 brain cells with a pointer tracing strategy on a giant screen...IF there was free Budweiser (beer for those with no taste)...IF there were scantily-clad cheerleaders in the "pits"...IF there were crashes every other lap...IF it was all American riders (who cares about a bunch of foreigners?)... then the Average American sports fan would still sit home and watch sports whose players make millions, and sling homophobic insults at cyclists. I don't believe you ever turn people who have never ridden a bike more than a couple of blocks into cycling fans. The only way the sport will grow (and interest more corporate dollars) in the US is by increasing the base of serious cyclists - which _is_ happening, but not at a pace to involve investors other than those in the bike industry.


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## Fogdweller (Mar 26, 2004)

JCavilia said:


> Something like that has been done in the past, but it didn't last. The Coors Classic in the 80's began as a 3-day stage race in Colorado, but eventually grew to a two-week race with stages in California, Nevada and other western states (I saw Greg Lemond and Bernard Hinault racing in a crit on Fisherman's Wharf in San Francisco in 1985).


I was there! Fun race. The Coors Classic was originally the Red Zinger that ran in Colorado from '75 to '79. The race was bought for a dollar and promoted by Coors in 1980. Starting it in California was it's ultimate demise since it was much more expensive to do the transit of the teams.


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## SNS1938 (Aug 9, 2013)

foto said:


> Where in the calendar would a 4th GT fit? Who would go? It would be grueling and have zero prestige...


Yes, exactly.


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## Undecided (Apr 2, 2007)

What about 21st Century Fox? Or Systagenix?

Hmm, being a non-title sponsor seems like (even more of) a bad investment.


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## davidka (Dec 12, 2001)

Nubster said:


> £42,222...not a bad payday for 3 weeks work.


Relative to the prestige of the win and the revenue it brings in advertising/TV, that is CHUMP CHANGE (so is the winner's prize of ~$450k). NFL, NBL, and NBA players blow that kind of money in a night in Vegas. The TdF is the largest sporting event in the world by viewership. What cyclists get paid is an embarrassment.

Roger Federer pulled down something like $71m last year. Golfers we've never heard of earn more than any cyclist's salary for finishing 15th-20th place.


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## Nubster (Jul 8, 2009)

It is chump change when comparing it to other sports but in reality it's still a good payday. It's more than I make in a year.


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## ph0enix (Aug 12, 2009)

mikerp said:


> Yep, I watched the start, then it turned to Indy. I'm about ready to subscribe to an internet channel.


I came back from vacation yesterday ready to watch the last two stages that were DVR'ed. Unfortunately my DVR isn't smart enough to know that they decided to switch channels. Who at NBC makes those stupid decisions? ...and what about the 5 minute f-up where there is Indy audio track playing over the voices of Paul and Phil during the Indy coverage?


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## theBreeze (Jan 7, 2002)

But you can work for 20 or 30 years or more. I guess that the average cyclist's work lifetime is 10 years tops.


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## c_h_i_n_a_m_a_n (Mar 3, 2012)

The roads are too wide ...


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