# Steel frame suggestions-Merckx, DeRosa, Colnago, Lemond?



## dawgcatching

I am interested in purchasing a nice steel frame for general riding and training. I ride 200-300 miles per week, on pretty bad chip-seal roads, and weigh about 150 at the moment. I am looking for a nice-riding, fairly smooth steel frame that will last awhile. Something that isn't overly twitchy, and descends and climbs very well (my race frame is very twitchy). Fit-wise, I have long legs and a pretty standard torso, so not much in the way of issues. 

On my list of frames to check out were the Merckx MX Leader, DeRosa Neo Primato, Colnago Tecnos/MXL, and possibly a Lemond "classics" frame like the Sarthe (the whole bike runs less than most framesets alone). Is the Lemond just as good functionally as the others (I realize it isn't a builder with lots of history, but if it rides well....). If it were you, and you were somewhat constrained by budget (I can buy a $1500 frame, but won't do it simply to spend $1500) which would you look at? Thanks!


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## Henry Chinaski

The MX Leader is very cool but kind of a boat anchor. For $1000-$1500 I'd probably get something from a small US builder--IF, Carl Strong, Sycip, etc. If you want to spend less I'd look at Gunnar or Curtlo. Lemond should be a pretty good bang for the buck, too.


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## crashjames

*carrera*



Henry Chinaski said:


> The MX Leader is very cool but kind of a boat anchor. For $1000-$1500 I'd probably get something from a small US builder--IF, Carl Strong, Sycip, etc. If you want to spend less I'd look at Gunnar or Curtlo. Lemond should be a pretty good bang for the buck, too.



Carrera makes a nice 3lb steel frame - the Aries. With fork it's about a grand...


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## Szozda

If you want Italian, Pegoretti makes great steel bikes.


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## ScottInCincinnati

*One word:*

Gunnar. I have the "Sport" model, and it is great on less-than-perfect road surfaces. I got it with the steel fork, and built it up with Centaur 3x10 speed for about $2,000. Very nice, very well built.

Scott


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## Phippy

This might or might not help. A few online retailers have some 04' DeRosa Corum on sale for $1699, if you can wait DeSalvo cycles can build you a frame out of Columbus Life, Easton 90SL fork, ChrisKing headset right around $1500.

I myself getting a steel ride as well. I was all set on a Moser M81 but then I came across a Casati Laser and now totally confused again.


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## dawgcatching

Phippy said:


> This might or might not help. A few online retailers have some 04' DeRosa Corum on sale for $1699, if you can wait DeSalvo cycles can build you a frame out of Columbus Life, Easton 90SL fork, ChrisKing headset right around $1500.
> 
> I myself getting a steel ride as well. I was all set on a Moser M81 but then I came across a Casati Laser and now totally confused again.


What is the Corum like? Looks like a nice frame-is it durable? How's the ride (I want a bike to last awhile).


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## Phippy

dawgcatching said:


> What is the Corum like? Looks like a nice frame-is it durable? How's the ride (I want a bike to last awhile).


My understanding is the the main triangle is made of Deda EOM 16.5 and SAT 14.5 steel rear triangle. I can't answer the durability question but I'm sure its very durable as I've read some riders at 200lbs riding a Corum.

The only downside price is for frame+fork no headset. Personally I would jump on one if I could find one in my size for that price.


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## HeronTodd

If you are looking for something a bit more stable than your typical racing frame, look at Rivendell, our own Herons, or the new "performance comfort" bikes from Specialized, Trek, and others. Of course, the big brand frames are usually not steel.

These frames are all designed for the type of road riding that most people actually do (i.e. something other than racing). They offer a comfortable, all-day position, a bit longer wheelbase for a smoother ride, and more stable handling. Think of a 60s or 70s era racing bike. These were fast bikes but also comfortable for other types of riding. A lot of racing bikes today don't have this same level of versatility.


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## tommyboypdx

I'd look at a Mondonico Futura Leggero, or a Torelli Express


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## ukiahb

*check out the Tommasini Tecno also....*

a very nice frame and beautifully made


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## italianthread

*Steel Frame Suggestions*

It's almost as if you've got too many choices in quality steel frames. I've been through quite a few steel bikes, & I'm wishing I hadn't sold some of them because each really good frame has it's own ride-quality 'personality'...The steel Eddy Merckx has nice balance & century geometry; if you're tall (as Eddy is) you'll notice a tailored feel to the frame. My Gios was a quick handler ith a low bb that was so much fun to track stand that's all I ever did with it. Serotta has exquisite handling over shorter distance....after 20 miles I wanted something less nervous, but Serotta's handling is refined. I had a Paramount oversized (OS) that was too stiff...My old Colnago Super has a light, pleasant & very comfortable ride. My still-older Mondia is still more comfortable, but not as finely ride-tuned as the Colnago. I have a Celmins custom that is absolutely stable on fast descents, but a bit slow in steering...I always seem to go to casual-cruising speed on that bike. My 1996 lugless Chris Chance is light, perfectly constructed, has century geometry & likes to climb & descend both, so I guess it's the best bike...but I still seem ride the old sew-up shod Colnago Super more than the rest. If you could only test-ride your choices back-to-back!


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## Jed Peters

For that price, go to a good custom fitter, get fitted, and then buy a bike from a custom builder.

Better yet, if you are local to a renouned custom company, have them fit you and buy your bike direct.

You'll be happy you did.


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## Fredke

*Orbea Spirit*

You might look at Orbea's Spirit frame. I just got a Spirit as a crash replacement for my carbon fiber Onix four weeks ago and I've been very happy with it in the short time I've had it.

The frame is rigid enough that I don't have any problems with excessive BB or rear-triangle flex (I weigh 182 and can really jump on the pedals whilst climbing) but still eats road vibrations nicely. It's decently light. It handles corners and descents well without being at all twitchy.

I don't put in the miles you do---more like 150-200 per week, so I only have about 700 miles on this frame but I've been very happy with it so far riding roads of rural Tennessee (much cracked pavement and chip-seal). I don't race, so I can't comment on it as a race frame, but for training and club rides you could do a lot worse for the money. Retail price for the Spirit runs something like $1000 for the full-steel and $1400 with carbon stays. I'm riding the full-steel.


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## Fredke

*Custom? For $1500?*



dawgcatching said:


> If it were you, and you were somewhat constrained by budget (I can buy a $1500 frame, but won't do it simply to spend $1500) which would you look at?





Jed Peters said:


> For that price, go to a good custom fitter, get fitted, and then buy a bike from a custom builder.


Where in the world do you get a good custom frame for $1500?


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## Henry Chinaski

Fredke said:


> Where in the world do you get a good custom frame for $1500?


Just about anywhere. You shouldn't have to spend any more than that.


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## daneil

*Just a few off the top of my head*



Fredke said:


> Where in the world do you get a good custom frame for $1500?


Some suggestions:

Strong - $1200
http://www.strongframes.com/frames_&_pricing/road/

TET (Tom Teesdale) - prices from $699 for Reynolds 525/Columbus Brain or Thron to $929 for Reynolds 853
http://tetcycles.com/Pricing/pricing.html

Serotta CXII - $1495
Serotta CIII - $1495
http://www.serotta.com/pages/cxii.html 

Curtlo - Standard Custom Road $720, S3 Custom $970
http://www.curtlo.com/pricing.html

If you add $100 you can include IF
Club Racer and Crown Jewel Steel - Both $1600
http://www.ifbikes.com/frames2/steelclubracer.shtml
http://www.ifbikes.com/frames2/steelcrownjewel.shtml

$1500 is pretty much the sweet spot for high quality custom steel frames. There are many, many more builders both big and small that can deliver a beautiful custom steel frame at a $1500 price point.


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## MrDan

*Lemond Sarthe...*



dawgcatching said:


> I am interested in purchasing a nice steel frame for general riding and training. I ride 200-300 miles per week, on pretty bad chip-seal roads, and weigh about 150 at the moment. I am looking for a nice-riding, fairly smooth steel frame that will last awhile. Something that isn't overly twitchy, and descends and climbs very well (my race frame is very twitchy). Fit-wise, I have long legs and a pretty standard torso, so not much in the way of issues.
> 
> On my list of frames to check out were the Merckx MX Leader, DeRosa Neo Primato, Colnago Tecnos/MXL, and possibly a Lemond "classics" frame like the Sarthe (the whole bike runs less than most framesets alone). Is the Lemond just as good functionally as the others (I realize it isn't a builder with lots of history, but if it rides well....). If it were you, and you were somewhat constrained by budget (I can buy a $1500 frame, but won't do it simply to spend $1500) which would you look at? Thanks!


Go out and test ride what you can. I've had my Sarthe a couple months now, and it's really a great deal. Being somewhat of a retro grouch myself, my only reservation is the Race Lite rear wheel ... but, it hasn't given me any problems, probably 500 miles on it now. It is stable enough to ride no hands fairly easily, and I was surprised that I descend even faster with this new bike, as it's 5-6 lbs. lighter (Sarthe = 19-20 lbs. I'm 155lbs.) I just pass right by much larger/heavier riders on the downhills with great ease. Yes, the Lemond is a great deal if you like the ride ... I would say that it's a good 90-95% of the Merx Corsa 0.1 I rode which had traditional 32 spoke wheels and a steel fork. It's too bad the Sarthe doesn't have a steel fork, but the carbon fork makes the package cheaper and lighter. I believe this alone is what makes the ride just that "bit" harsher the the Merckx Corsa. If you go with the Sarthe in the end, have them put on your favorite tires as the Bonti's flat very easily. The saddle is weak (but that's a personal thing) so I swappped my old one onto the Sarthe. I test-rode the Croix de Fer, then ordered the Sarthe. I think it was 4 weeks to get it in. You may have problems getting one, as the Trek/Klein/Lemond camp is having problems meeting demand, but perhaps the crush has passed. Also the Sarthe is unbeatable if you like ORANGE!

Best Luck,
-D


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## bikenerd

I just had a new steel cross frame built by Paul Sadoff at www.rocklobstercycles.com . A mix of 853, True Temper, and Columbus (Zona? Zonal?) for $945, just over $1K with tax. He was great to work with, communicated well, did everything he said and more. Check out Jed's post over here: http://forums.roadbikereview.com/showthread.php?t=32824 , Yeah that one's aluminum, but it shows you what Paul can do. I'd highly recommend him.


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## Henry Chinaski

bikenerd said:


> I just had a new steel cross frame built by Paul Sadoff at www.rocklobstercycles.com . A mix of 853, True Temper, and Columbus (Zona? Zonal?) for $945, just over $1K with tax. He was great to work with, communicated well, did everything he said and more. Check out Jed's post over here: http://forums.roadbikereview.com/showthread.php?t=32824 , Yeah that one's aluminum, but it shows you what Paul can do. I'd highly recommend him.


Yeah, but do you get that B-52s song stuck in your head every time you go for a ride?


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## Fredke

daneil said:


> $1500 is pretty much the sweet spot for high quality custom steel frames. There are many, many more builders both big and small that can deliver a beautiful custom steel frame at a $1500 price point.


Cool. I had no idea. I thought you'd have to spend two or three times that much to get a decent custom steel frame. Thanks for setting me straight!

I've been wanting to go custom for a while but assumed that it was way outside what I could afford.


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## unchained

*Tommasini*

If you like chrome, paint, and attention to detail I would recommend Tommasini. Their steel fork is made in house and it is wonderful.

I would also give the Merckx frame made from Max tubing a once over. I would hardly call it a boat anchor. It might weigh 1 or 1 1/2 pound more than a typical Ti frame. Small trade off for a nice frame. The Molteni Orange or Motoralla paint schemes are neat.

I don't recommend DeRosa. Overprice, over-rated. I have a NeoPrimato. Tommasini is superior. However, ridecampy.com does have some attractive prices on NOS DeRosa frames.

You might want to do a search here for Tommasini and steel frames. This subject has come up in the past with alot of replies.


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## unchained

*Hampsten Giro*

I forgot to mention the Hampsten Giro. I believe you can buy it stock or custom. The lugs are produced by Richard Sachs. It would be my first choice if it met my budget. 

<p><img src=https://www.hampsten.com/images/models/thumbs/giro/giro4_lg.jpg>


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## olds_cool

*curious...*

"I don't recommend DeRosa. Overprice, over-rated. I have a NeoPrimato. Tommasini is superior. However, ridecampy.com does have some attractive prices on NOS DeRosa frames."


what don't you like about the NeoPrimato? they are on sale everwhere for about 1300 bucks. that doesn't seem as overpriced as a 1999.99 merckx steel frame and fork. i am curious, because i was interested in the NeoPrimato.


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## unchained

*Hampsten Custom.*



unchained said:


> I forgot to mention the Hampsten Giro. I believe you can buy it stock or custom. The lugs are produced by Richard Sachs. It would be my first choice if it met my budget.


Just visited the website. They are all custom and retail at $2000.


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## bikenerd

Henry Chinaski said:


> Yeah, but do you get that B-52s song stuck in your head every time you go for a ride?


No, but I did add it to my mp3 playlist here at work . . .


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## kajukembo

*My B bike is a Merckx Corsa*

It's a great riding bike and has a chrome fork and stays. I have mine set up as my rain bike with split fenders. I bought it used for about 1/2 retail and it was in perfect condition. I've never ridden a leader, but I'd really like to try one.


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## djg

*All sorts of nice frames can be had from*

reputable custom builders in the 1k-1.5k dollar range. To some of the suggestions below, you could add Landshark (John Slawta) (1200 or so?) and, if I'm not mistaken, the basic TIG Waterford model (in addition to the Gunnar). Vanilla (Sascha White) and Kirk may be just out of that price range. The Serotta CIII is just under 1500, but without a fork (OTOH, if the stock "fierte" model fits you, you're down to around a grand for a Serotta steel frame).

For bang for buck: the LeMond Sarthe sure looks like a nice package for the money. Basically, the spec is pretty good, the frames look nicely tacked together, and the paint job is awesome. I picked up a LeMond fillmore this spring (the fixie model; also tt ox platinum pipes) and have been really pleased with the way the bike rides--it's hard to make a good systematic comparison, but I prefer the new LeMond steel frame to the Zurichs I tried 4 or 5 years back. You might want to make some changes--I found the bontrager saddle a little too soft and swapped it out, for example--but they're set up well for the most part and if you can get the fit you want, you might find it a very good value.


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## boneman

*New or used?*

You don't indicate your preference. Lot's of great suggestions for mostly new bikes.

I've had a bunch of steel frames, both new and used over the years but lately I've been buying used steel, lugged frames.

MERCKX- Currently still have a Merckx in Motorola colors made from SLX. This was pre-TSX on which Hampsten won the Alp d'huez stage in the TDF. I've had two TSX frames, a Marinoni custom (still have but will sell) and Pinarello Gavia in black chrome which I recently sold on EBay. Nice tube set but at your weight, like the MXL stuff, too much for the weight. The Merckx handles and fits nicely. I also have a Merckx Ex which is Ti. I like his geometry for my body. Merckx frames come on EBay consistently, not in numbers like Colnago's, but they go for decent prices. I bought the Motorola for under $300 last year.

COLNAGO- Everyone lusts after the Master, in all its variations such as Master Piu, Master Olympic, etc. and for good reason. IMHO, used pricing isn't great on these. However the Tecnos can be had for a much better value, price wise, and is a great ride. I have a NOS Tecno that I bought on EBay for $450, with a steel Precsia fork, from banana brain, aka Renaissance in Eindhoven, NL. Much lighter than the Merckx Motorola and again, if you know your size, nice fit and handling.

TOMMASINI- That post is correct. Really nice bikes by Irio and earlier ones, pre-Colorado Cycle mass distribution, are hard to find. A friend of mine visited the factory in 1985 and had one custom built. Really nice attention to detail. I keep search for one in my size but come up with nada.

DEROSA- I happen to like the Prestiege, another SLX frame. Used DeRosa's are not in great numbers. A bike whose finish and heart shaped cut-out lugs make me irrational.

SEROTTA- You can't go wrong here and his steel frames are an excellent value on the used market. Further, there are a decent number of them available on the used market.

DAVIDSON- I have a Challenger, old-school Reynolds 531 but a recent 853 model went for cheap on EBay. He's an excellent builder and his geometry contains no surprises.

As for any frame made from MXL, for your weight, it would be a pig. It's just too much and you'll lose the suppleness of the steel ride, regardless of builder. For some people, it's the right tube set but now that it's been out of production for a while, it has taken on a life of its own. Well, that's my 2p.


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## Maverick

*...consider Viner EOM 16.5*

pretty good bike and light weight, approx 17.6 pounds with Campy Chorus groupset, non carbon version

gvhbikes.com

currently riding the Merckx GX2 carbon monocoque frame and just gotten a Viner EOM steel..
its a perfect ride.


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## moschika

Jed Peters said:


> For that price, go to a good custom fitter, get fitted, and then buy a bike from a custom builder.
> 
> Better yet, if you are local to a renouned custom company, have them fit you and buy your bike direct.
> 
> You'll be happy you did.


this is exactly what I would do. why not buy something tailored to you and for possibly less? you can find many small custom builders for <$1500/frame. even buying a production model from a small builder, is i think a better value. quality is no less then custom.

a couple more to look at:
sycip - http://www.sycip.com/index.html
soulcraft - http://www.soulcraftbikes.com/

or as jed said, better yet if you have one local to you.


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## JeffN

dawgcatching said:


> I am interested in purchasing a nice steel frame for general riding and training. I ride 200-300 miles per week, on pretty bad chip-seal roads, and weigh about 150 at the moment. I am looking for a nice-riding, fairly smooth steel frame that will last awhile. Something that isn't overly twitchy, and descends and climbs very well (my race frame is very twitchy). Fit-wise, I have long legs and a pretty standard torso, so not much in the way of issues.
> 
> On my list of frames to check out were the Merckx MX Leader, DeRosa Neo Primato, Colnago Tecnos/MXL, and possibly a Lemond "classics" frame like the Sarthe (the whole bike runs less than most framesets alone). Is the Lemond just as good functionally as the others (I realize it isn't a builder with lots of history, but if it rides well....). If it were you, and you were somewhat constrained by budget (I can buy a $1500 frame, but won't do it simply to spend $1500) which would you look at? Thanks!


It's been over a year since you posted this thread. I'm interested to know what you purchased because I'm considering steel frames myself now.


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## italianthread

Find a FUSO built by Dave Moulton or his apprentice then heir, Russ Denny. Quick handling, but not too quick, stiff, but not too stiff, well balanced, encourages you to ride a fast pace. 
Jim


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## MrDan

JeffN said:


> It's been over a year since you posted this thread. I'm interested to know what you purchased because I'm considering steel frames myself now.


The Sarthe has held up well, but my retro-grouch fear about the rear wheel turned out to be well-founded. The Campy Veloce stuff is plenty nice. The cheap "black" finish has started to peel off the crank, but I'll replace it in a couple years. The frame has held-up fine and rides very nice. I have since bought MAVIC/record/32 spoke wheel combos from performance and I love them.

-D


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