# Build your own custom 12 or 13 - 28 Shimano cassettes for cheap: Tiagra



## BelgianHammer (Apr 10, 2012)

Hi gang,

A few weeks ago, I posted a thread lamenting Shimano's attempt to extract every possible penny out of their consumers by only providing the venerable 16T in the one DuraAce cassette 11-speed lineup. 

http://forums.roadbikereview.com/co...rant-shimano-they-want-their-16-a-345272.html

So, upon investigating things further, I discovered something about the Tiagra cs4600 10 speed cassettes. For those of you that have bought these $17-$20 10 speed cassettes (which, imo, are every bit as good as the Ultegra and definitely better than the wimpy, quickly worn out Dura Ace cassettes), you'll notice Shimano drives three pins completely through these Tiagra cassettes (which means the first 7 cogs cannot be separated, which stinks because usually it is the middle cogs that only wear out). 

Anyhow, upon further inspection, I noticed that the pins in the Tiagra CS4600s were what we call in the machinist industry "press-driven", very much like the "press-fit" newer bottom brackets are. Realizing this, I flipped one of my old, middle-cog-worn Tiagra cs4600s over, so that the large cassette was face down on the workbench and the smallest cog was face up. I then began tapping out. with a small flat head punch, the three "press-fit" pins. The pins began to back right out, though the first few strikes on the punch took some force. After those first few hard taps, the pins came out quite easily and then the whole cassette came apart. Thus, there I was, staring at a cassette (that is only $17-20 new) where I could customize it to my hearts desire, whether using the cogs for 10 speed and/or 11 speed cassettes. You don't need these pins for any reason when assembling the cassette back together. They do absolutely nothing in supporting the cogs...they are there to prevent you from doing what I just did.

Here's two pics of what the 10 speed (mine here is the 12-28t) cs4600 Tiagra looks like with the pins out:
















***Please remember though, for any customizing you do with cassettes, whether 10 and 11 speed, the most important things is to make sure you have the correct spacers in the cassette. One of our venerable posters (Wim) said it best long ago, and I directly quote:

http://forums.roadbikereview.com/components-wrenching/11-speed-chain-10-speed-cassette-196773.html

Quote Originally Posted by orange_julius
If you have a 10-sp drivetrain except for an 11-sp chain, you'll end up with a noisy drivetrain and a chain that wears out quickly....

Wim's response:
That assessment is based on the incorrect notion that the 11-speed chain is too narrow to fit over a 10-speed cog. As said above, the inside dimensions of a 10-speed and 11-speed chain are virtually identical, so there's no problem running an 11-speed chain on 10-speed cogs. What's narrower is the outside dimension of an 11-speed chain compared to a 10-speed chain. ****



Lastly, I want to point out that there are two things to consider that I can see with using the Tiagra cassettes for customizing your own 10 and 11 speed cassette: first, in my opinion it is best only to either add the very inner cog and/or only the very outer two cogs on the bigger end (the 11-13T cogs). Why? Because Shimano tried to think of everything possible to keep this combining of cassettes from happening, so they deliberately changed the shifting ramps for all product lines (Tiagra to 105 to Ultegra to Dura Ace). Truthfully, when it is just the very inner cog and/or the very outers, shifting ramps mean very little. I can discern no shifting performance difference from my combined cassettes I've made over this past month versus the un-combined ones. But, that said, if I had tried to do combine cogs across the middle from the different product line cassettes, I believe you would notice a discernible shifting difference (as in a degradation of shifting performance). Second, Shimano also tried to screw around with the 11-12T lockrings on different product line cassettes (as in making them non-compatible...it really helps if you have a few 11-13T older line lockrings and 11-13t cogs from past used cassettes).

If you have any questions, shoot me a message and I will try to help. This is just a DIY headsup for you cycling tinkerers who also try to stretch an extra dollar because you want and/or have to, or just because you can. Or, maybe, you don't want and/or have the ability to drop a few hundred dollars on two Ultegra cassettes (and combine them) or the wherewithall to keep ponying up the $200 for a DuraAce 12-28 cassette that has the 16T in it. And, no, neither Miche nor SRAM provide the combos (at this price point) possible that you can get with one broken apart $17 brand new Tiagra (Tiagra comes in 12-28, 12-30, 11-25) combined with the great 105 cassettes. In my experience, one new Tiagra 10 speed, combined with either Shimano 105 10 and 11 speed cassette, and you've got a great option to dropping a few hundred dollars on the above mentioned high-end Ultegra and DuraAce 10 and 11 speed cassettes.


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## Camilo (Jun 23, 2007)

Couldn't you just drill the heads off the pins from the back of the largest sprocket? That's what I was thinking of doing (different project, but similar intent.)


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## Jay Strongbow (May 8, 2010)

BelgianHammer said:


> ..........one new Tiagra 10 speed, combined with either Shimano 105 10 and 11 speed cassette, and you've got a great option to dropping a few hundred dollars on the above mentioned high-end Ultegra and DuraAce 10 and 11 speed cassettes.


Interesting but rather than buying both a Tiagra and 105 cassette wouldn't it be easier and make more sense to buy a Miche cassette and then the individual sprocket(s) you want for like $7 each?

Although I suppose a lot of people who'd want to do this already own the Tiagra or 105 so it would only mean buying one of them.


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## BelgianHammer (Apr 10, 2012)

Camilo,

Give that a try and let us know. When I looked at the cassette under a magnifying glass, even if I had drilled the heads off the back of the biggest inner cassette, the pins still looked expanded at the ends on the 7th cassette heading outwards. Thus, I just wanted to mess with one end. But I'd sure as heck be interested in knowing if that is the case and you get them to come off easier.


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## BelgianHammer (Apr 10, 2012)

Jay,

..._Although I suppose a lot of people who'd want to do this already own the Tiagra or 105 so it would only mean buying one of them.._...

The latter...I was more leaning along this line of thinking, that if a person already had one of the two, they could get the other fairly cheaply (Wiggle has the Tiagra has $17 even right now, and the 105 cassette is only $22).

Other thing that cautioned me with Miche (of which I own a few of their cassettes), is that their lockring & either the 11 or 12T that it goes into did not play nice with the newer Shimano cassettes, especially on the 11 speed. I think you already know Shimano implemented that crazy new lockring + 11t or 12T + the next cog those two slide into on the CS6700 10 speed line and above. Shimano carried over into the whole 11 speed line too. Still, it's crazy to me that even the Ultegra cs6600 10 spd cassettes won't play nice with the Ultegra cs6700 10 spd cassettes in regards to the lockring + 11/12T + sliding into the next cog (like on the CS6700 but not the CS6600). Shimano seems to spend an inordinate amount of effort, thinking long and hard, haha, so we DIY people can't do stuff like this.

Btw, for anyone, if you can figure how to get the affixing pins out of the outer three (28/25/23 or 25/23/21 or 30/27/24) cogs on a 105 & above Shimano cassette, I love to see it. Why you would want to do it on only 3 cogs like that I wouldn't know?? But still, if can pull it off, I'd sure love to see it because the construction of the 105 & above cassettes is completely different from the lower Tiagra stuff. Thus, to my eye, it is seemingly immune to us tinkering around with it as those thick pins aren't just pressed fit into that 3 cog assembly, the ends are also bevel-compressed in, which in most instances, holds like diamonds and you'll destroy the cogs before you ever make a difference in those 3/16-1/4" inch thick pins.


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## Sanders (May 13, 2013)

Why not just go with SRAM?
They offer the 16t cog in both the PG-1130 and PG-1170 for all 11-25/28 versions.


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## skinewmexico (Apr 19, 2010)

I miss my 16. I was out Wednesday, and it seemed like I spent the entire time going between 15 and 17. Cadence either too slow or too fast.


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