# Stage 10 Discussion



## Dwayne Barry (Feb 16, 2003)

Mayo appears to be in trouble already before they hit the first serious climb of the Tour.

T-Mobile appear to be putting their eggs in the Gonchar/Kloden basket as both Rogers and Sinkewicz are working.

And now Mayo is dropped on the lower slopes of the Soudet, sounds like he might abandon.


----------



## ttug (May 14, 2004)

*hmmm*

Well, at 90 K to go, I think the fecal matter will hit the rotary oscillator. WTF is the escape group that Johann referrred to for Disco. Oh well, this COULD BE a decisive stage.


----------



## Dwayne Barry (Feb 16, 2003)

ttug said:


> Well, at 90 K to go, I think the fecal matter will hit the rotary oscillator. WTF is the escape group that Johann referrred to for Disco. Oh well, this COULD BE a decisive stage.


Highly unlikely to be decisive. The only thing this stage will probably show is who amongst the GC threats is climbing poorly, but anyone who is any kind of GC threat should be in the peloton at the finish. Landaluze and Mercado are two outside GC threats who could really improve on their position if the break can survive and finish a couple of minutes ahead of the bunch.


----------



## botto (Jul 22, 2005)

that coverage of Mayo climbing out of the saddle in the caravan was painful, especially when you see that he's in his granny gear and belgian tv is putting up a graphic saying that his cadence is 50 rpms


----------



## Dwayne Barry (Feb 16, 2003)

botto said:


> that coverage of Mayo climbing out of the saddle in the caravan was painful, especially when you see that he's in his granny gear and belgian tv is putting up a graphic saying that his cadence is 50 rpms


Infortunately I'm at work so I can't watch!

Anyone know who the American woman is commentating on Eurosport? I think they said her first name is Christy.


----------



## zero85ZEN (Oct 11, 2002)

*Yeah*



botto said:


> that coverage of Mayo climbing out of the saddle in the caravan was painful, especially when you see that he's in his granny gear and belgian tv is putting up a graphic saying that his cadence is 50 rpms


Mayo looks AWFUL! He is really suffering like a dog...barely turning over the pedals...Phil just said he must be ill....

On a side note, did anyone see the spectator running along spraying water on the riders with his a$$ hanging out of his shorts? More than I needed to see that's for sure. But it was pretty funny.


----------



## zero85ZEN (Oct 11, 2002)

*Honchar...*

...suffering at the back of the pack of the main group. And it's the T-mob that is putting the pressure on! They're cracking their own rider.


----------



## James OCLV (Jun 4, 2002)

Dwayne Barry said:


> Mayo appears to be in trouble already before they hit the first serious climb of the Tour.
> 
> T-Mobile appear to be putting their eggs in the Gonchar/Kloden basket as both Rogers and Sinkewicz are working.
> 
> And now Mayo is dropped on the lower slopes of the Soudet, sounds like he might abandon.


Looks like Gonchar has blown too... and T-Mobile isn't sending help...


----------



## ttug (May 14, 2004)

*Good catch*



zero85ZEN said:


> ...suffering at the back of the pack of the main group. And it's the T-mob that is putting the pressure on! They're cracking their own rider.


Maybe they thought he could be a pilot fish?? Otherwise it does look like they are eating their own young, WTF??


----------



## zero85ZEN (Oct 11, 2002)

*Potential GC leaders*

Better start to get a bit concerned about the guys they've let go up the road. Over ten minutes now! A couple of those guys are potential threats for the overall!


----------



## harlond (May 30, 2005)

Christy Anderson, Phil Anderson's wife. I think it's Phil, former Aussie roadie. Anyway, she's married to a former racer from Oz who had some pretty good success in Europe.


----------



## zero85ZEN (Oct 11, 2002)

*Side note...*

...whenever I see mechanics hanging out a car fiddling with front derailleurs out on the road during a race I always say WTF to myself. As a pro mechanic myself for over 10 years, all I can say is that there is NO frickin' excuse for a poorly adjusted derailleur being discovered by the rider out on the road OF THE TOUR DE FRANCE. How much do those guys get paid? Crap like that should just never happen if the proper people do their job properly.


----------



## vivelance6 (Mar 27, 2005)

zero85ZEN said:


> Better start to get a bit concerned about the guys they've let go up the road. Over ten minutes now! A couple of those guys are potential threats for the overall!


It looks like this break will make it to the finish today. Who's going to win the stage? I would love to see one of the Euskaltel guys win in the Pyrennes. I can't believe Mayo though...I thought he was coming back to form since the Dauphine, guess not. Can't wait to watch all of the fun tomorrow...should be a great stage with the GC guys making some moves.


----------



## botto (Jul 22, 2005)

harlond said:


> Christy Anderson, Phil Anderson's wife. I think it's Phil, former Aussie roadie. Anyway, she's married to a former racer from Oz who had some pretty good success in Europe.


yep, Phil Anderson's wife. iirc She was a masseur or something like that. 

nb - Phil Anderson was the bomb. For PA's his sake alone - as the highest placed rider from Oz in the TdF - i hope that soprano-voiced-schmuck Evans doesn't do much in the Tour this year.


----------



## Dwayne Barry (Feb 16, 2003)

vivelance6 said:


> It looks like this break will make it to the finish today. Who's going to win the stage? I would love to see one of the Euskaltel guys win in the Pyrennes. I can't believe Mayo though...I thought he was coming back to form since the Dauphine, guess not. Can't wait to watch all of the fun tomorrow...should be a great stage with the GC guys making some moves.


Isasi has been mixing it up in the bunch sprints and I think finished as high as 5th. He'll be the favorite if he can make it over the Marie Blanque close enough to get to the leaders. Especially as Landaluze is likely to be there and work for a sprint.


----------



## botto (Jul 22, 2005)

never understood that either until i got a CF bike w/a CF seatpost. Now I half understand all of the on-the-bike repair: they're retightening the seat post 



zero85ZEN said:


> ...whenever I see mechanics hanging out a car fiddling with front derailleurs out on the road during a race I always say WTF to myself. As a pro mechanic myself for over 10 years, all I can say is that there is NO frickin' excuse for a poorly adjusted derailleur being discovered by the rider out on the road OF THE TOUR DE FRANCE. How much do those guys get paid? Crap like that should just never happen if the proper people do their job properly.


----------



## harlond (May 30, 2005)

letour.fr reports that Mayo has rejoined the yellow jersey group. Good for him.


----------



## Guest (Jul 12, 2006)

James OCLV said:


> Looks like Gonchar has blown too... and T-Mobile isn't sending help...


They only have 7 guys. If they want to control the peleton they need 6 up front to keep tempo. Sucks for Gonchar though.

Yeah, I don't know what Disco is doing. I thought that they would push Savoldelli to the front at the top and then have him blast down after the breakaway. Maybe after the next col ^shrug^.


----------



## Guest (Jul 12, 2006)

Dwayne Barry said:


> Highly unlikely to be decisive. The only thing this stage will probably show is who amongst the GC threats is climbing poorly, but anyone who is any kind of GC threat should be in the peloton at the finish.


I agree - this stage is a good spolight on future mountain stage successes. After today's tough stage we go into stage 11 and the Pla de Beret with 4 cat 1 climbs and 1 HC and a mountain finish. The strong climbers will still be pumping along on the last climb - those who aren't are going to get blown to bits. Those who are suffering today, will be shelled quickly on Thursday. I pity the sprinters.


----------



## Dwayne Barry (Feb 16, 2003)

AJL said:


> They only have 7 guys. If they want to control the peleton they need 6 up front to keep tempo. Sucks for Gonchar though.
> 
> Yeah, I don't know what Disco is doing. I thought that they would push Savoldelli to the front at the top and then have him blast down after the breakaway. Maybe after the next col ^shrug^.


It really makes little sense for any of the top GC guys to waste energy today. With the top of the Marie-Blanque so far from the finish any time gained on the climb will likely be negated on the run in to the finish. They all will be thinking of tomorrow's difficult day which could produce significant time gaps even though the final climb isn't so difficult. Probably today's only influence on the GC is the long-shot Mercado took at reviving his GC chances which appears as if it will pay off.


----------



## Guest (Jul 12, 2006)

Good point DB.

Disco and Phonak have come to the front to help TMob.


----------



## harlond (May 30, 2005)

AJL said:


> Good point DB.
> 
> Disco and Phonak have come to the front to help TMob.


To help T-Mob or hurt Gonchar?


----------



## Guest (Jul 12, 2006)

Actually, I think just to stay safe at the front. They probably want to make sure they finish with TMob I guess. The peleton isn't gaining on the breakaway. 

So this is what it's like when one team doesn't dominate the Tour!


----------



## ttug (May 14, 2004)

*testing the waters*



AJL said:


> Actually, I think just to stay safe at the front. They probably want to make sure they finish with TMob I guess. The peleton isn't gaining on the breakaway.
> 
> So this is what it's like when one team doesn't dominate the Tour!


I think Dwayne has a point. Tomorrow will be not so nice and at this point, nobody appears to be playing a major GC card.......


----------



## goose127 (Jun 9, 2004)

I think these guys have left a bit too much time to these two. In a race that is as wacky as this one, I don't know if I would want to give that much time to a guy in yellow. 

Mayo is this year's Iban Mayo. How many years has this guy dissapeared when the gradient gets to 4%.


----------



## Francis Cebedo (Aug 1, 2001)

Exhibit A


*General classification after stage 10*

1 Cyril Dessel (Fra) AG2R-Prevoyance 43.07.05
2 Juan Miguel Mercado (Spa) Agritubel 2.34
3 Serguei Gonchar (Ukr) T-Mobile 3.45
4 Cristian Moreni (Ita) Cofidis 3.51
5 Floyd Landis (USA) Phonak 4.45
6 Michael Rogers (Aus) T-Mobile 4.53
7 Inigo Landaluze (Spa) Euskaltel-Euskadi 5.22
8 Patrik Sinkewitz (Ger) T-Mobile 5.30
9 Andreas Klöden (Ger) T-Mobile 5.35
10 Vladimir Karpets (Rus) Caisse d'Epargne-Illes Balears 5.37
11 Cadel Evans (Aus) Davitamon-Lotto 
12 David Zabriskie (USA) Team CSC 5.38
13 Marcus Fothen (Ger) Gerolsteiner 5.48
14 Christophe Moreau (Fra) AG2R-Prevoyance 5.52
15 Paolo Savoldelli (Ita) Discovery Channel 5.55
16 Denis Menchov (Rus) Rabobank 5.58</pre>


----------



## dagger (Jul 22, 2004)

Nobody wants to control the race. TMobile if they were trying today did a miserable job at it. And nobody else stepped up to the plate. I am quite suprised that the one team that knows how to control the TDF is not doing it.


----------



## Francis Cebedo (Aug 1, 2001)

If you watch the coverage, you'll hear Paul Sherwen insist that leaders Dessel and Mercado should wait for the chaser Landeluze. His point was they need him to keep their break alive.

As it turns out, this analysis was dead wrong. They were 9 minutes ahead of a peleton that could not chase on the downhill/flat finish. And Ladeluze would have stolen their stage win.

I like Sherwen a lot but just wanted to point this out.

On another note, the final climb showed who cannot climb...
- zabriskie, leipheimer, cunego... all spit off the back.

francois


----------



## Einstruzende (Jun 1, 2004)

francois said:


> If you watch the coverage, you'll hear Paul Sherwen insist that leaders Dessel and Mercado should wait for the chaser Landeluze. His point was they need him to keep their break alive.
> 
> As it turns out, this analysis was dead wrong. They were 9 minutes ahead of a peleton that could not chase on the downhill/flat finish. And Ladeluze would have stolen their stage win.
> 
> ...


You forgot IBAN MAYO who finished with MAGNUS BACKSTEDT, THOR HUSHOVD and the other sprinters. WTF is up with him!? I'm tired of beind disappointed


----------



## dagger (Jul 22, 2004)

*??*



Einstruzende said:


> You forgot IBAN MAYO who finished with MAGNUS BACKSTEDT, THOR HUSHOVD and the other sprinters. WTF is up with him!? I'm tired of beind disappointed


Why are you disappointed in Mayo who hasn't finished or placed in years?


----------



## dagger (Jul 22, 2004)

Also...WTF is Phonak doing by letting Landis lose that much time to some climbers. If they let that happen again tomorrow Landis isn't going to have a shot at the GC.


----------



## Dwayne Barry (Feb 16, 2003)

francois said:


> On another note, the final climb showed who cannot climb...
> - zabriskie, leipheimer, cunego... all spit off the back.
> 
> francois


And Gonchar who was in trouble on both climbs.


----------



## ttug (May 14, 2004)

*yup*



dagger said:


> Also...WTF is Phonak doing by letting Landis lose that much time to some climbers. If they let that happen again tomorrow Landis is going to have a shot at the GC.



Depending on stage 11, this TDF will be an exhibition for alot of the touted GC folks. Hincapie, Landis and by now certainly Leipheimer....


----------



## dagger (Jul 22, 2004)

*Not suprising though*



Dwayne Barry said:


> And Gonchar who was in trouble on both climbs.



That Gonchar would get spit off the back on the climbs. Leipheimer and Cunego..yes that suprises me, but not Gonchar.


----------



## teamcinzano (Jun 10, 2006)

I think TMO showed little tactical sense today. Granted, this was not a mountain stage to make serious differences in the major GC contenders. But, when you've got like 5 or 6 guys in the top 15, why not use some old school tactics and send guys up the road to make Phonak (who seem to be a little weak in the mountains), Disco, Lotto, etc. chase. Why not send Sinkewitz or Rogers (who clearly are working for Kloöden) up the road with the break on the early mountains. 

Instead, Landis, et. al. got to sit behind a TMO train that was not able to pull back some relatively mediocre climbers. TMO expended a bunch of energy with Sinkewitz and Rogers, lost the jersey, and looked (relatively speaking) weak. In years past, at the least, the break would have ended up with no more than 4min.

It was like a bad USPS imitation, rather than a savvy team riding with a sense of tomorrow, as well as today. Plus, how sad to see Gonchar get someone a bottle in the yellow jersey, even if it was just a bit of a symbolic gesture.


----------



## KMan (Feb 3, 2004)

*Correct me if I'm wrong, but*

I thnk Paul was stating that the leaders should wait for Landeluze to help keep off the chasing group and not the peleton. He knew at that point the peleton was not catching, but the chase group was within striking distance.

KMan





francois said:


> If you watch the coverage, you'll hear Paul Sherwen insist that leaders Dessel and Mercado should wait for the chaser Landeluze. His point was they need him to keep their break alive.
> 
> As it turns out, this analysis was dead wrong. They were 9 minutes ahead of a peleton that could not chase on the downhill/flat finish. And Ladeluze would have stolen their stage win.
> 
> ...


----------



## Dwayne Barry (Feb 16, 2003)

Today was not the day, tomorrow is.


----------



## Francis Cebedo (Aug 1, 2001)

Dwayne Barry said:


> And Gonchar who was in trouble on both climbs.


Yes, he was quickly relegated to waterboy and windbreaker.

fc


----------



## godspeed (Jan 31, 2006)

Didn't see the stage, had to work, Cyclingnews reported Gonchar and Rodgers throwing some punchs anybody see the T-mobile schinagagins


----------



## harlond (May 30, 2005)

godspeed said:


> Didn't see the stage, had to work, Cyclingnews reported Gonchar and Rodgers throwing some punchs anybody see the T-mobile schinagagins


That particular report was sent in by a reader and was in jest.


----------



## gregario (Nov 19, 2001)

*no*



godspeed said:


> Didn't see the stage, had to work, Cyclingnews reported Gonchar and Rodgers throwing some punchs anybody see the T-mobile schinagagins


that was a joke. go back and re-read it.


----------



## Dwayne Barry (Feb 16, 2003)

godspeed said:


> Didn't see the stage, had to work, Cyclingnews reported Gonchar and Rodgers throwing some punchs anybody see the T-mobile schinagagins


That was a fantasy scenario sent in by a reader, not what actually occurred.


----------



## godspeed (Jan 31, 2006)

I slow today... need more coffee and now back to work


----------



## rocco (Apr 30, 2005)

francois said:


> If you watch the coverage, you'll hear Paul Sherwen insist that leaders Dessel and Mercado should wait for the chaser Landeluze. His point was they need him to keep their break alive.
> 
> As it turns out, this analysis was dead wrong. They were 9 minutes ahead of a peleton that could not chase on the downhill/flat finish. And Ladeluze would have stolen their stage win.
> 
> ...



They actually get it wrong fairly often.


----------



## rocco (Apr 30, 2005)

Dwayne Barry said:


> And Gonchar who was in trouble on both climbs.



I remember somebody was saying Gontchar could hang on the climbs the other day... LOL I don't think you did but do you remember who was saying that?


----------



## James OCLV (Jun 4, 2002)

rocco said:


> I remember somebody was saying Gontchar could hang on the climbs the other day... LOL I don't think you did but do you remember who was saying that?


Well, if you look at his past performances, the guy can climb. He came in 2nd in the Giro on two occasions, and that race is notoriously more mountainous than the Tour.


----------



## Dwayne Barry (Feb 16, 2003)

rocco said:


> I remember somebody was saying Gontchar could hang on the climbs the other day... LOL I don't think you did but do you remember who was saying that?


I very well may have. I thought he would do alright and concede some time on the harder mountain days but not terribly so. I thought he would be fine today. Unless he comes around he's going to get blown out of the water tomorrow and in the Alps.


----------



## rocco (Apr 30, 2005)

dagger said:


> Also...WTF is Phonak doing by letting Landis lose that much time to some climbers. If they let that happen again tomorrow Landis isn't going to have a shot at the GC.



The Tour is all about metering out the efforts and only working when it really counts. There won't be any real consequences from todays events as far as the GC guys like Landis goes. Phonak would have been wasting energy if they had done much more today. Today was an hors d'oeuvre. Tomorrow is another matter all together. Let's see who shines and who fades tomorrow. Let's see if Dessel and Mercado had too much bread before the main course.


----------



## rogger (Aug 19, 2005)

dagger said:


> Why are you disappointed in Mayo who hasn't finished or placed in years?


He won that mountain stage in the Dauphiné this year, he can still climb but he can't handle the pressure the Tour lays down on "favorites". He needs to get CSC-ed.


----------



## rocco (Apr 30, 2005)

teamcinzano said:


> I think TMO showed little tactical sense today. Granted, this was not a mountain stage to make serious differences in the major GC contenders. But, when you've got like 5 or 6 guys in the top 15, why not use some old school tactics and send guys up the road to make Phonak (who seem to be a little weak in the mountains), Disco, Lotto, etc. chase. Why not send Sinkewitz or Rogers (who clearly are working for Kloöden) up the road with the break on the early mountains.
> 
> Instead, Landis, et. al. got to sit behind a TMO train that was not able to pull back some relatively mediocre climbers. TMO expended a bunch of energy with Sinkewitz and Rogers, lost the jersey, and looked (relatively speaking) weak. In years past, at the least, the break would have ended up with no more than 4min.
> 
> It was like a bad USPS imitation, rather than a savvy team riding with a sense of tomorrow, as well as today. Plus, how sad to see Gonchar get someone a bottle in the yellow jersey, even if it was just a bit of a symbolic gesture.



I had expected T-Mob would send out a rabbit from the GC top ten but they did a Landis a big favour instead. It's a war of attrition. Score 1 for Landis/Phonak and 0 for T-mob on that battle.


----------



## atpjunkie (Mar 23, 2002)

*my guess is Dessel*

will suffer like a dog tomorrow. he won't be allowed to go after KOM pts because he's in yellow, he'll need hios entire team to help but I think he (and maybe Mercado) might have blown their wad this day and will suffer the consequences tomorrow.


----------



## Einstruzende (Jun 1, 2004)

atpjunkie said:


> will suffer like a dog tomorrow. he won't be allowed to go after KOM pts because he's in yellow, he'll need hios entire team to help but I think he (and maybe Mercado) might have blown their wad this day and will suffer the consequences tomorrow.


Yup. Now we're going to have to deal with more "Chicken" talk almost assuredly. This is what he has been losing time for! Goddamn breakaway with the chicken :mad2:


----------



## Dwayne Barry (Feb 16, 2003)

Einstruzende said:


> Yup. Now we're going to have to deal with more "Chicken" talk almost assuredly. This is what he has been losing time for! Goddamn breakaway with the chicken :mad2:


He's been riding fairly poorly so far this year. Tomorrow has to be marked on every rider's calendar who's interested in the KOM. I wouldn't be surprised if Rasmussen's KOM bid this year comes up short.


----------



## ~David~ (Jul 2, 2006)

I bet we're going to see all the big guns come out tomarrow, since all the main players seem to be bideing there time. I really doubt the Frenchmen will keep the yellow since Floyd Landis is probally going to go after it tomarrow now that hes around 4 minutes behind.


----------



## Dwayne Barry (Feb 16, 2003)

~David~ said:


> I bet we're going to see all the big guns come out tomarrow, since all the main players seem to be bideing there time. I really doubt the Frenchmen will keep the yellow since Floyd Landis is probally going to go after it tomarrow now that hes around 4 minutes behind.


There's no reason to go after Dessel. He'll fall back on his own, probably Mercado as well.


----------



## rocco (Apr 30, 2005)

Dwayne Barry said:


> There's no reason to go after Dessel. He'll fall back on his own, probably Mercado as well.



exactly.


----------



## EricNM (Oct 7, 2005)

rocco said:


> I had expected T-Mob would send out a rabbit from the GC top ten but they did a Landis a big favour instead. It's a war of attrition. Score 1 for Landis/Phonak and 0 for T-mob on that battle.


They only have 7 riders. I don't think they have enough riders to send out a rabbit. Besides, with that many riders at the top of the GC, it is the other teams that should be attacking. No reason to tip their hand this early if no one forces them to and additionally they got out of having to defend the yellow jersey without losing time to the other serious GC contenders. Fairly shrewed if you ask me.


----------



## ChilliConCarnage (Jun 1, 2006)

~David~ said:


> I bet we're going to see all the big guns come out tomarrow, since all the main players seem to be bideing there time. I really doubt the Frenchmen will keep the yellow since Floyd Landis is probally going to go after it tomarrow now that hes around 4 minutes behind.


If Floyd goes after the yellow tomorrow, he'll have a big target on his back and he doesn't have the team to defend it from so early on. I would bet that he, and all the other legitimate GC contenders would much rather sit back and not show their cards until they're forced to. It isn't as exciting to watch, but it is sound strategy.


----------



## SilasCL (Jun 14, 2004)

ChilliConCarnage said:


> If Floyd goes after the yellow tomorrow, he'll have a big target on his back and he doesn't have the team to defend it from so early on. I would bet that he, and all the other legitimate GC contenders would much rather sit back and not show their cards until they're forced to. It isn't as exciting to watch, but it is sound strategy.


Everyone and their brother knows floyd is the favorite. Do you think the whole peloton has forgotten him because he's not in yellow?

To another post on this thread, if you think T-mobile wasted energy today, you are crazy. The fact that they couldn't bring back two nobodies means that they did squat on the front. Sure the pace was high enough to drop the sprinters and other big men, but they were not working hard. I think Phonak and Lotto could care less if they send Rogers up the road. They know he will lose 4-5 minutes on every mtn. top finish. They won't let Kloden go, and probably not Sinkewitz either.

Silas


----------



## Francis Cebedo (Aug 1, 2001)

SilasCL said:


> Everyone and their brother knows floyd is the favorite. Do you think the whole peloton has forgotten him because he's not in yellow?
> 
> To another post on this thread, if you think T-mobile wasted energy today, you are crazy. The fact that they couldn't bring back two nobodies means that they did squat on the front. Sure the pace was high enough to drop the sprinters and other big men, but they were not working hard. I think Phonak and Lotto could care less if they send Rogers up the road. They know he will lose 4-5 minutes on every mtn. top finish. They won't let Kloden go, and probably not Sinkewitz either.
> 
> Silas


It was nice to see the whole team on the front! Their waterboy was sporting a yellow jersey even.

But the coolest thing was Kessler's new line of base layers. It's called 'wifebeaterz'.

Anybody got a better photo?
https://www.velonews.com/images/details/10352.15650.f.jpg

fc


----------



## Francis Cebedo (Aug 1, 2001)

I'm watching the evening coverage and Floyd went to talk to his team car quite concerned. He wanted to work as the situation looked dangerous.

His DS said. 'No, no. No danger.' 

I don't know it's very nerve racking for Floyd. They've opened up a very dangerous situation. How are they so sure these new leaders will crack? Looks like they can climb.

francois


----------

