# Motobecane or trek?



## JVSVA (Apr 11, 2012)

Hello all!
I have just recently been getting into cycling, and have gathered a lot from reading the forums here for awhile (lurking). Now that my (don't laugh) spalding hybrid is about at the end of its life I have planned to upgrade. The main bikes I am looking at right now are as follows, and in no specific order:
1) Trek 1.2 (2011 model for $700, sora and tiagra)
2) Specialized allez sport ($950 sora and tiagra)
3) Raleigh revenio 2.0
4) Cannondale synapse alloy sora
5) Cannondale caad8
6) Felt z100 or z95
7) Motobecane Vent noir ($800 with vuelta xrp wheels and mostly 105 components)
8) fuji roubaix 2.0



any other suggestions are very welcome as well as what you think, especially regarding the motobecane, trek, and specialized.


JVSVA


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## old_fuji (Mar 16, 2009)

Treks are good bikes.


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## AndrwSwitch (May 28, 2009)

Your poll's too long for me to read. So's your list.

First, cross off all the bikes that aren't actually available to you locally.

Next, ride the ones that remain. I bet you end up with a much shorter list.

When you're looking at bikes, think about what you currently do with your bike, and what you'd like to do with your bike. While a massed start road bike can be pressed into service for everything from touring to racing, it's easier and your result will probably be better if you start with something built with your use in mind.


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## JVSVA (Apr 11, 2012)

Thanks for the quick responses and like Andrwswitch said, I would definitely like to support my LBS. That leaves the trek, specialized, cannondale and raleigh. I could most likely get some of the others (not motobecane) in a neighboring city


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## JVSVA (Apr 11, 2012)

Also, price does matter and I could get the listed bikes in my size (reccomended by two bike shops)


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## PJ352 (Dec 5, 2007)

JVSVA said:


> Also, price does matter and I could get the listed bikes in my size (reccomended by two bike shops)


I may be misreading this, but don't be misled into thinking that a given frame size in one brand/ model that fits you will in another brand/ model. 

For example, some 47cm Rocky Mountains meet my fit requirements, but 52's are a better match in Specialized and 54 in Treks. 

That's why it's important to work with reputable LBS's on sizing/ fit, then test ride bikes of interest.


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## JVSVA (Apr 11, 2012)

sorry to be unclear, but i was reccomended a 60 cm in trek and 58 in specialized/raleigh


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## PJ352 (Dec 5, 2007)

JVSVA said:


> sorry to be unclear, but i was reccomended a 60 cm in trek and 58 in specialized/raleigh


No problem. Glad you clarified...


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## RB Mike (Feb 23, 2011)

Let's be clear. You want us to help you pick a bike based on this list...not knowing your goals, riding style, budget, body-type, personal preferences, criteria, etc.?! 

Are you really looking for advice...or are you hoping our uneducated answers will validate a decision you've already made?


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## JVSVA (Apr 11, 2012)

Hey man calm down I was more or less asking what the advantages of one might be over another. and if it helps I am edging on six foot, pretty lanky (or maybe long is the right word). and plan to do fairly short daily rides over the summer - about thirty or forty miles. and most likely some longer touring and/or road races in the not so distant future.


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## PJ352 (Dec 5, 2007)

RB Mike said:


> Let's be clear. You want us to help you pick a bike based on this list...not knowing your goals, riding style, budget, body-type, personal preferences, criteria, etc.?!
> 
> Are you really looking for advice...or are you hoping our uneducated answers will validate a decision you've already made?


Uh, lest you forget, this is the beginner's corner, where potential buyers/ cyclists post _because_ they're seeking some direction/ information. 

Your questions are valid, but (IMO) should be presented in a manner that considers the 'audience'.


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## RB Mike (Feb 23, 2011)

I'm calm. Not being critical but I do want to be clear that you're asking for subjective opinions on what's "best suited for you" and we don't know you nor did you provide even a glimpse for us to create opinions. 

I asked for more detail because I know what you're going through. This is a big decision and you want to get it right.


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## JVSVA (Apr 11, 2012)

Well thank you for the concern. any other information that you might find helpful?


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## PJ352 (Dec 5, 2007)

JVSVA said:


> Hey man calm down *I was more or less asking what the advantages of one might be over another. *and if it helps I am edging on six foot, pretty lanky (or maybe long is the right word). and plan to do fairly short daily rides over the summer - about thirty or forty miles. and most likely some longer touring and/or road races in the not so distant future.


The advantages one bike may have over another hinges on your intended uses, terrain, cycling experiences/ preferences... and you've now offered some info.

'Longer touring'/ 'road races' are somewhat at odds with each other, and while you can race a bike you'd tour with (and vice versa) those intended uses are a little broader than what's commonly encountered. 

Given the versatility you're looking for, if it were my money, I'd probably go with a relaxed geo bike like the Felt Z series (or similar). It's race-able and will likely accommodate clamp-on racks. Not ideal, but a compromise and I suspect there are some brands/ models not on your list that might be better choices (again), given your intended uses.

Bottom line is (still) to visit some reputable shops, discuss your intended uses, get sized/ fitted to some offerings and head out for test rides.


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## Squrkey (Mar 24, 2012)

I'm a beginner too so take this for what it is worth.

Get the most bike for your money; I think the Motobecane with 105 components stands above the others for $800.

The risk you are taking is buying the bike from online, you could get lucky. Even if you understand everything about fit and set up etc. until you have actually been on the bike you wont know if it is right.

For me I got lucky, I am 5'10 with a 30" inseam and I did all the other crazy measurements and fit calculators. I ended up buying a 53" Motobecane and it is perfect. But I'm a beginner. The cool thing about it is I got a bike with an MSRP of 5K for 2K.

Even if you do screw up and get the wrong size, I have read that some places will exchange it if you pay shipping so there isn't to much of a loss, maybe a restocking fee. 

Anyways, I believe that being 6' and lanky puts you in the 56-60CM ballpark, once again I'm a beginner and did not sleep in a holiday inn express last night. But I have done a lot of research and reading on this sight, and I got lucky with my purchase.


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## RB Mike (Feb 23, 2011)

I've got enough information to be dangerous. *If I were you*, I'd go with the Motobecane. 

I'm a firm believer that bikes have specifications...
specifications are easily compared....
and value can be easily discerned.

Since I'm deciding for you (as me)...it's good to point out that I'm a value buyer. While the Motobecane, Specialized and Trek all rely on similar frame tech (alum w/ carbon forks), we've got to boil down to the specs...specifically, the components. In the battle of Sora/Tiagra vs. Tiagra/105 the latter wins every time. But why settle for Sora/Tiagra when you can have Ultegra for the same price?

Forget the Vent Noir. Get the Motobecane Sprint ($1095). Before you balk at the price, realize that you won't be paying sales tax ($50-$75 for the Trek or Specialized), it comes with pedals (admittedly not the world's best but they're fine for starting out) and you won't be tempted to upgrade *much* in the future. The Sprint adds a better frame tech (carbon seat stays) and exceedingly better components with a mostly ultegra lineup. 

As you've probably noticed in your research, this type of advice is swiftly followed with "you can't pick a bike without riding it", "you need an expert helping you size the frame" and "support your LBS". 

Now tell me, how is a spin around the parking lot, even a 1 mile jaunt, going to tell you anything about the bike? Chances are your experience will be shaped more by the seat height and accuracy or inaccuracy by which the sales guy fixes the seatpost height and sends you cruising through the parking lot than it will be by the particular make/model you're riding. Ignoring comfort and focusing on ride quality, better components will improve shifting; better frame tech (i.e. carbon fork/stays) will improve road-feel.

I love when fit-defenders point out that one millimeter can make/break a rider's comfort...at which point I like to point out that frames generally jump in 20 millimeter increments. Yes, buying the wrong frame size would be catastrophic; however, if you start with the right frame size (using on online fit calculator like Competitive Cyclist's) you won't be dozens of millimeters off and you can tweak the fit with different seat/cleat position and ultimately with a different stem...but rest assured, your fit will never be unfixable. 

Lastly, the "support your LBS" movement is a tough tide to turn as the vocal minority behind the microphone are the folks inside the industry and the industry is afraid of change. That said, I'm all for supporting the LBS. Some of the best margins are in the service you'll rely on and the consumables you'll continually purchase down the line. Bottom line, you can be a valuable customer without buying a bike from them. If they don't value your patronage because of the marquee of your rig, find another LBS.

That's my $0.02. Best of luck!


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## Squrkey (Mar 24, 2012)

Great insight and perspective Mike! 

Here is one of the great threads that led me to the Motobecane;

http://forums.roadbikereview.com/motobecane-mercier/why-motobecane-bikes-so-cheap-183187.html


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## RB Mike (Feb 23, 2011)

Squrkey said:


> Here is one of the great threads that led me to the Motobecane;


Good stuff.

As I'm looking back, I left off the fourth comment that follows a post like my previous: "you must be a shill." 

Nope. I do like Motobecane but I like several other "online non-name brand bike brands" as much, if not more, than Motobecane. Motobecane happened to be the only consideration in JVSVA's thread. 

I'd hate to confuse matters by adding more options.


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## AndrwSwitch (May 28, 2009)

I think I'd rather have a light, tourable bike with sidepulls that I stripped and raced than a racing bike that I tried to carry a load with.

Raleigh's been trying to address that lately. Here's one to look at.
Raleigh Bicycles Clubman

It comes out of the box with fenders. You can pull 'em and go racing, or you can add a rack and tour. It's got the right mounts to accept a rear rack with very little fuss and the right eyelets to accept a front rack with probably a bit more fuss. 2x10 drivetrain and a really wide-range cassette.

I think maybe Raleigh looked into their crystal ball and thought, "we need to make a bike for JVSVA." Your dealer should be able to help you order the right size, if they don't have any on the floor. I'm too lazy to figure out if there's another Raleigh it would ride similarly to.


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## AndrwSwitch (May 28, 2009)

Come to think of it, the Specialized Secteur might be a better fit for your breadth of use too. It'll take a rear rack. Less chainstay, which does make a difference with loads, adding a front fender will be harder, and a front rack would require a new fork. All life is compromise.


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## PJ352 (Dec 5, 2007)

RB Mike said:


> I've got enough information to be dangerous. *If I were you*, I'd go with the Motobecane.
> 
> I'm a firm believer that bikes have specifications...
> specifications are easily compared....
> ...


This post is so fraught with errors I don't know where to begin. Like most of this mindset, perceived 'value' is based solely on the hardware/ gear, all else (like value added services) falling a distant second. 

First off, a ride around a parking lot - or one mile ride out on the road is *not* a test ride. Any shop that advocates either is not reputable and not worth doing business with. Neither is one that has the 'sales guy' do a pre-ride fitting.

Continuing... better components do not automatically mean better shifting. Proper setup/ tuning means better shifting. I can easily de-tune a DA equipped bike and dial in a Sora equipped bike to shift near perfect. And while I agree that (IME and all else being equal) a CF fork quells road buzz better than alu, CF stays do nothing in that regard. 

Re: online fit calculators, they do more to confuse than to assist. _At best_, offering a _range_ of fit parameters a noob has to compare against geo numbers they don't understand. And those online 'recommendations' are based _only_ on numbers inputted. No accounting for fitness, flexibility, cycling experiences/ preferences, anatomical issues.... A knowledgeable fitter can do better working one on one with a customer for ~20 minutes.

BTW, you blur the lines between sizing and fit when you sarcastically mention that some here say that a millimeter can make or break a riders comfort, but frame sizes vary by 20mm's. Sizing comes before a fitting, so getting sizing right is essential in getting a good fit, without resorting to unnecessary compromises. Additionally, the reality is that on longer rides (such as the OP is planning) a fit parameter being a few mm's _can_ make for a painful ride.

Also, there are a number of hidden expenses to online bike purchases - services that are included with LBS purchases. Final assembly, tuning, initial fit, warranty assistance (if needed) and post purchase discounts on accessories. 

OP: I suggest continuing down the path you've started down. This being your first road bike, seek out a reputable shop (or shops), get some advice on brands/ models of some bikes that'll suite your intended uses/ goals, get the sizing/ fit assistance you need and head out on the roads, evaluate some bikes and whittle the field from there. Consider it an investment in your cycling future.


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## professionalsql (Apr 5, 2012)

There seem to be two axis you're asking about here. One is style of bike, the other is manufacture/source.

Style of bike should match the style of your riding and your physical characteristics. For example, for someone very heavy and not limber, a Tri bike might not work at all - you might have to start with something less agressive and work your way into it. Note that "style of your riding" isn't necessarily cookie cutter either. You may be doing road work when on the bike, but if you're not racing or trying to time trial it, then the features of a touring bike may be worth the balance in position/weight.

As to manufacturer/source, that, to me, is a risk/reward question. A couple of the online bike stores have simply killer deals when you look at what you get for your money, but look closely at what you're getting. For example, something might be called out as "Schimano 105", but when you look close, it's only part of the set (say, shifters, derailers, but not brake calipers, crankset, cassette and chain). This may or may not be a bad thing, but make sure your eyes are open. You can still support your LBS very well by buying parts and service there - I find most LBS at this point have adjusted. Realize thought that you may pay them back some of your online savings in the form of higher service prices (some LBS do discounted service for bikes purchased directly from them). 

I've been equally happy buying from a LBS. I get less "bike" for the money, but I trade that for other value in the relationship, expertise buying and the like. Perhaps the biggest gain is going to be the help you'll get in trying the bike out and in basic sizing (do not confuse that with "fitting').

Regardless of where/what you buy, realize that it is really a downpayment on what you're going to spend cycling. If you're at all serious about cycling, you'll likely spend as much on things like gear, fitting (I highly recommend professional fittings), bike rack, fuel, etc. as you spent on the bike, and then keep spending.


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## JVSVA (Apr 11, 2012)

Thanks for all the help guys. I can understand all your points of view, but I do want to make a good relationship with my bike shop(s). I already have connections with the owner, so I will probably appreciate some future discounts, especially if I decide to join our local club.


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## RB Mike (Feb 23, 2011)

PJ352 said:


> This post is so fraught with errors I don't know where to begin. Like most of this mindset, perceived 'value' is based solely on the hardware/ gear, all else (like value added services) falling a distant second.


I spend 99% of my time receiving value by riding my bike, 1% of my time receiving value through services. Can't imagine why I would flip/flop $ and priorities.



PJ352 said:


> Continuing... better components do not automatically mean better shifting. Proper setup/ tuning means better shifting. I can easily de-tune a DA equipped bike and dial in a Sora equipped bike to shift near perfect.


My comments were made under the assumption that both bikes were properly tuned. Clearly a de-tuned gruppo will be inferior. The best fit, tune and service from your LBS will never make your Tiagra shift like Ultegra or your Ultegra shift like Dura Ace.



PJ352 said:


> Sizing comes before a fitting, so getting sizing right is essential in getting a good fit, without resorting to unnecessary compromises. Additionally, the reality is that on longer rides (such as the OP is planning) a fit parameter being a few mm's _can_ make for a painful ride.


Sounds like an echo of my point. We can agree to disagree on the usefulness of fit calculators. I've seen poor results from 'fit experts' and I've seen poor results from 'fit calculators.' There is no magic bullet; however, a better informed consumer can generally avoid common pitfalls; regardless of whether he pursues a local brand-name purchase or an online discount bike.

OP's on the right track. My advice was simply offered from my perspective...your advice from your perspective. At some point, all of us find the purchase method that works best for our needs. At the end of the day, I'll be smiling from ear-to-ear (regardless of what bike OP selects) to know that a new rider is getting deeper into the sport.


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## AndrwSwitch (May 28, 2009)

The first time I saw bikesdirect, I assumed it was a scam. I've come to see them as offering a reasonably good value to a consumer who already knows what he's doing, just not what they claim.

I race a bike with Tiagra shifters, front derailleur and rear hub. It's turned into a bit of a Frankenbike over the years, but the frame remains. I guess if I bought for the same money from BD, if they were offering 'cross bikes at the time, I'd have 105 shifters and FD. BFD. I'd still have had to buy my own tires, I'd probably still have decided to try a different rear drivetrain setup, the handlebars would still have sucked, it looks like the front wheel is identical to what I have and the rear is actually inferior. Similarly crappy cranks.

On the other hand, I think that I really did get something out of the in-person shopping process. Bikes don't all ride the same. I got a chance to ride a few, and I got a chance to play with sizing. I sized down from the usual recommendation, and that's worked out very well for me. Actually that bike has come to be my reference bike for sizing others. So, I got my favorite of a few different options in my pricepoint, and I got a size that works better for me. I'd say that's worth more to me than having some different shifters.

When I want to stretch a buck, I buy used bikes from local sellers. That's actually the last three I've bought. The most recent one is a track bike. I was considering a catalog as a fallback option, but their track bikes are mostly kind of weird. Another catalog doesn't have them in my size. Performance Bike doesn't list any on their catalog, although they can get some in-store. I talked to my mechanic about it (love having a good relationship with my shop, btw) and I'm glad I did, since track bikes aren't quite the same as road-going fixies and singlespeeds, and since I bought it to race at a velodrome, and maybe an indoor velodrome with steeper banking, it does matter. Craig's List can generate an RSS feed of a saved search. Although actually it was a lucky hit that got me my current bike, since her asking was a bit high.

I think there's a big streak of materialism and magical thinking that supports a lot of the bike industry. After all, this is an invention that reached its near-modern form in the '50s, and while the incremental improvements since then have added up some, how well a bike performs is still a matter of how well the rider develops power and hides from the wind. That depends on a bike that fits right. The bike industry as a whole is reliant on gear-lust, which is too bad because I think it leads product managers and consumers to make decisions that negatively impact how well bikes actually ride. People's "need" for a suspension fork on the front of a mountain bike, for example - it's not good for mountain bikes with the MSRP of a good suspension fork alone. But I've figured out what makes me uneasy about a lot of catalogs. It's that they pander directly to the gear-lust. Although the fake MSRPs bother me too.

When I remember a ride I enjoyed, I don't remember how cool my shifters were. Frankly, I was just as happy with my Acera, old 105 and Tiagra shifters as I am with the LX, Ultegra and still Tiagra shifters I have on those bikes now. I'm frustrated when a shifter doesn't work, but sooner or later, everything wears out. And I know how to cut cable housing, so my drivetrains are generally very functional until I spray mud into them. Which happens a lot... then they still work, they're just slower. I guess I don't like my Rival shifters as much, but there's another company that relies a lot on gear-lust over a desire for actual function.

When I remember rides I didn't enjoy, I usually remember stuff like pain and bad weather. I've been riding long enough to have equipment failures. Actually the ones that stick out in my mind were both related to having people fall on top of my or my bike. I don't see that a nicer wheel would have survived the first crash or that nicer bars would have survived the second.

So almost all of my value comes from the act of riding my bikes. I guess I also save money on not buying gas, paying for parking, or paying to ride the bus and I save time on not walking when it's my commute bike. However, local shops have always facilitated the actual riding for me. Whether it's stocking bikes so I can ride a few and get it right, selling me the right parts to rebuild a wheel, taking care of a suspension fork that I didn't have time to service myself, answering compatibility questions and ordering parts for me for my frankendrivetrain on my 'cross bike, having a community work space so I can finish my wheels nicely, or something else I've forgotten (gotta be there) they've had my back. I'm comfortable with the idea that they need to pay rent, pay their employees, and that shop owners would like to take home some money at the end of the day. I have a bit of an internet addiction, but when I want to get something actually done, I very often go to one of a couple shops near me for their help - that's how I actually take care of issues that come up and keep my bikes rolling.


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## JVSVA (Apr 11, 2012)

I like the approach you are talking about- it's the rider not the bike. I also like what you said about remembering the ride, not your shifters. As I am not currently planning any crits or high speed bike races, I think you are most definitely right. I have been considering the $ per mile and things like that also. If I had the option, I would continue riding my old bike, but it just doesn't cut it, and even if I stuck it out, I would require a new bike sooner or later. I guess what this thread is all about is what the best bang for my buck is, and my best venue for buying it from is, things like that.


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## AndrwSwitch (May 28, 2009)

Well, you'll probably have an easier time setting up a good, efficient position on your road bike. And the handling is a lot better. So I think you'll genuinely have more fun. I just don't think it's nearly as big a difference between different road bikes as between a hybrid and a road bike.


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## PJ352 (Dec 5, 2007)

JVSVA said:


> I guess what this thread is all about is what the best bang for my buck is, and my best venue for buying it from is, things like that.


That may well be, but you have to define what 'bang for the buck' means to you. Andrew, I and others have posted our thoughts/ opinions. Now you have to decide which (or some variation) you 'buy into', figuratively speaking.


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## JVSVA (Apr 11, 2012)

Ended up with the 2011 trek 1.2 for $700 plus tax. She's quite a looker if I do say so myself. Very happy so far as well. So far I've only ridden her a little bit, but have already flipped and lowered the stem, rotated the handlebars, removed reflectors/stickers and adjusted the seat height. Free tune-ups and maintenance for a year from the LBS I bought it from  Planned upgrades are: swap out saddle and add saddlebag, add new grip tape, and add speed play pedals when I get the cash.









any suggestions for upgrades/adjustments?


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## Squrkey (Mar 24, 2012)

Looks like a nice choice, I'm just wondering why you did all the adjustments, would it cost extra for the bike shop to fit?

Pics?


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## JVSVA (Apr 11, 2012)

oops dont think the pik worked


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## JVSVA (Apr 11, 2012)

Well I had them do the seat and sizing, but the rest was just a matter of personal comfort and preference, and I am plenty qualified to do It myself.


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## PJ352 (Dec 5, 2007)

JVSVA said:


> *Ended up with the 2011 trek 1.2* for $700 plus tax. She's quite a looker if I do say so myself. Very happy so far as well. So far I've only ridden her a little bit, but have already flipped and lowered the stem, rotated the handlebars, removed reflectors/stickers and adjusted the seat height. Free tune-ups and maintenance for a year from the LBS I bought it from  Planned upgrades are: swap out saddle and add saddlebag, add new grip tape, and add speed play pedals when I get the cash.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Wow, you're a fast mover! Took me about 2 years to settle on a 'next' bike. 

That aside, congrats on your purchase. Glad you went with your LBS. Long term, I think you'll be happy you did.

Just curious on the fit issue. I was under the impression you were new to road riding and this was your first road bike. If so, how did you become familiar with the fit process so quickly?

As far as upgrades/ adjustments are concerned. Ride the bike, incrementally building on saddle time. That'll go a long way in upgrading the motor (you). 

A list of 'essentials':
Helmet
Road ID bracelet (or similar)
Saddle bag
Spare tube
Patch kit
multi-tool
tire levers
CO2 or mini-pump
latex gloves
rags/ paper towels

Then (if you don't know already) learn how to change out tubes/ repair flats.

When funds permit:
computer with cadence
padded cycling shorts
jersey
gloves
clipless pedals/ shoes


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## SolitaryRider (Oct 20, 2011)

I'm a noob- but my opinion: All the bikes on the list are decent bikes, and some you may like more than others- not that they are necessarily better or worse....but just for personal preference...i.e. how they "feel"/ride/handle and of course, aesthetics.

I think the biggest variable is price. I'm partial to the BikesDirect bikes...as they offer the most bike for the least money. No matter what you're looking for, they likelyt have a model that will suit you, and save you a LOT of money. Of course, the downside is that you can't test ride them, and that you have to use an online fitment calculator in conjunction with their geometry charts to have a good chance of getting a good fit- but in my book, considering that you can save a LOT of money..or get muich more bike at a given price-point, the extra effort is well worth it.

EDIT: Ooooppss! Shoulda read the entire thread first- or at least noted who the author was! [In an Emily Litella voice]Never mind!


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## froze (Sep 15, 2002)

I assume from the bike selections you chose your budget is around $850, not sure what was so hard about determining that. The Motobecane has the best component package if that matters.

Also at Bikes Direct they have a Windsor Falkirk on sale till 4/15; see: http://www.bikesdirect.com/products/windsor/falkirk_xi_apex.htm This is fully equipped with the Sram component package which is about an equal to Shimano 105, but instead of getting just a 105 rear derailleur on the Motobecane you get all Apex for a price of $800. Just something to think about.


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## rmwillis (Mar 23, 2012)

Anything but Sora.

Had it on my first road bike. Hated the thumb changer with a passion.

Spend a little more and get a Tiagra or Try SRAM Apex.


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## JVSVA (Apr 11, 2012)

I don't think yall finished reading that I had already caught a nice bike on sale. LOL.
thanks for the advice anyways, and willis, I got sora and actually don't mind it (yet).
If I really start disliking it so much, I could switch shifters (~$200) but I have other things in mind already.



> A list of 'essentials':
> Helmet
> Road ID bracelet (or similar)
> Saddle bag
> ...


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## PJ352 (Dec 5, 2007)

JVSVA said:


> ... just a question, what are the latex gloves for? I assume keeping hands clean when fiddling with your bike.


That's how_* I *_use them.


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## SolitaryRider (Oct 20, 2011)

I find the worst thing about Sora is the extremely long throw of the lever needed to shift the FD up...but then again, I have nothing else to compare it to- but I assume that the better components handle this a lot better...... Could be better- but on a cheap bike, like my $300 Galaxy, you get used to them.


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## froze (Sep 15, 2002)

Maybe there was funny in there somewhere but it fell flat. But using latex gloves are useless when working around mechanicals because they tear way to easily. On the bike I carry a couple of packets of Orange Goop Pumice packets, works great.


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## JayTee (Feb 3, 2004)

Lots of BD shilling still going around. Look, for quality, service, exchanges, and resale value, the generic Asian frames brand stamped by BD as "whatever" are not the way (especially for a new rider) to go. 

There are riders who will buy those frames just to strip the components off them, or to have a beater backup. Your decision sounds like it is boiling down to price vs. service/support. Well, if price dominates, that's FINE. But get on Craig's List or whatever and save real money on a good bike, rather than buying the equivalent of something labeled "ACME." Otherwise, let the bike shop build a relationship with you, learn lots, and don't let posters with low post counts recommending Bikes Direct effect your decision at ALL given the shill problem well known with that vendor.


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## PJ352 (Dec 5, 2007)

froze said:


> Maybe there was funny in there somewhere but *IMO* it fell flat. But *IMO/E* using latex gloves are useless when working around mechanicals because they tear way to easily. On the bike I carry a couple of packets of Orange Goop Pumice packets, works great.


FIFY.

Try a little finesse when 'working around mechanicals' and the gloves won't tear so easily. With time and patience, I'm sure you can master it.


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## SolitaryRider (Oct 20, 2011)

JayTee said:


> Lots of BD shilling still going around. Look, for quality, service, exchanges, and resale value, the generic Asian frames brand stamped by BD as "whatever" are not the way (especially for a new rider) to go.
> 
> There are riders who will buy those frames just to strip the components off them, or to have a beater backup. Your decision sounds like it is boiling down to price vs. service/support. Well, if price dominates, that's FINE. But get on Craig's List or whatever and save real money on a good bike, rather than buying the equivalent of something labeled "ACME." Otherwise, let the bike shop build a relationship with you, learn lots, and don't let posters with low post counts recommending Bikes Direct effect your decision at ALL given the shill problem well known with that vendor.


Some of us live where there is no LBS. (Driving an hour each way to have someone turn a screw on a derailleur is NOT an option!)

Some live where the LBS royally SUCK! 

Some don't need an LBS's support (I do all my own adjustments/repairs and buy my accessories on-line- what would I possibly need an LBS for?)

To MANY people, paying $300 or $500 or $1000 or even $1500 more a bike of comparable quality is just plain foolish.

The BD bike won't have as much resale value? Well considering that it cost half the price of the name-brand bike to begin with....or that, in many cases, the parts can be sold for what was paid for the whole bike, or for what a used name-brand bike would fetch.....who cares? 

I guess I'm a* S*atisfied *H*appy *I*nformed *L*egitimate cyc*L*er


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## Squrkey (Mar 24, 2012)

JayTee said:


> ... don't let posters with low post counts recommending Bikes Direct effect your decision at ALL given the shill problem well known with that vendor.


...Interesting concept, I guess post count is an actual substitute for experience. 

Excuse my newb ignorance but what is a "shill problem"? sounds itchy.


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## Squrkey (Mar 24, 2012)

Brilliant, I speak some truth and get a bad rep, I guess when I get a high post count I can do childish things to those with a lesser point count to ensure I keep my higher standing.

Don't post anything, just leave some bad rep and run away....lawyers..typical

It is really too bad that one or two people with agendas can ruin a good thing, I was really starting to enjoy this forum.


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## froze (Sep 15, 2002)

PJ352 said:


> FIFY.
> 
> Try a little finesse when 'working around mechanicals' and the gloves won't tear so easily. With time and patience, I'm sure you can master it.


There is no finesse in mechanical repair. I've worked on all my cars and bicycles for 40 plus years and latex gloves do not work, unless your handling a small petite screw driver to turn a petite screw, but if your just doing that you don't need no damn gloves unless your scared of a little bit of dirt getting on your hands in which case you should let someone else work on your stuff!!


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## froze (Sep 15, 2002)

JayTee said:


> Lots of BD shilling still going around. Look, for quality, service, exchanges, and resale value, the generic Asian frames brand stamped by BD as "whatever" are not the way (especially for a new rider) to go.
> 
> There are riders who will buy those frames just to strip the components off them, or to have a beater backup. Your decision sounds like it is boiling down to price vs. service/support. Well, if price dominates, that's FINE. But get on Craig's List or whatever and save real money on a good bike, rather than buying the equivalent of something labeled "ACME." Otherwise, let the bike shop build a relationship with you, learn lots, and don't let posters with low post counts recommending Bikes Direct effect your decision at ALL given the shill problem well known with that vendor.


Right you are, so go buy any LBS brand bike and don't worry about it being stamped out of CHINA by only 3 factories...which of course means there's dozens of major branded bikes being made out of 3 factories who are just throwing brand stickers on the frames. The largest bike factory in the WORLD makes 99% of all the bicycles sold in America! You want to talk about branding generic bicycles, there you go. 

Then you mention resale value? Really? All one has to do is visit Craigslist and the story of resale is all over that. You have all sorts of major brands being sold 2, 3, 4 years after they were bought new for less then 75% of it's value. Yeah, buy a bike for it's resale value, good luck on that one.

Since you alluded to Bikes Direct having poor customer service and crappy bikes, please come up with proof and facts of their supposedly poor and dismal customer service and crappy bikes. Enlighten us please.

And somehow someone who has more posts then anyone else can tell others that those that don't have as many posts don't have a clue as too what their talking about and only listen to them...talk about an elitist attitude. You insulted everyone on this forum who has less posts then you. Classy.


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## MySpokeIsABroke (Sep 24, 2011)

Squrkey said:


> Brilliant, I speak some truth and get a bad rep.


I saw my little red post dot user rep and thought, GREAT !! It must be from the politics only threads. 

Anyways, can we all agree that the helmet on the list is mandatory ???

When all else fails, look at your poll. :idea:


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## PJ352 (Dec 5, 2007)

froze said:


> There is no finesse in mechanical repair. I've worked on all my cars and bicycles for 40 plus years and latex gloves do not work, unless your handling a small petite screw driver to turn a petite screw, but if your just doing that *you don't need no damn gloves unless your scared of a little bit of dirt getting on your hands in which case you should let someone else work on your stuff!!*


lol, calm yerself, froze. My post was written tongue in cheek (as they say).

I don't love using gloves either, and if they don't work for you, don't use them. Your method is fine as well.

Point is, this being a beginner's corner, for noobs doing minor roadside 'fixes', latex gloves _can_ serve in a pinch. Some cyclists bring along band-aids, and (for obvious reasons) they shouldn't be applied with dirty hands.

Just for the record, I've also been doing car repairs/ annual bike tear downs for 'decades'. I won't give you a precise #, because that would 'date' me. :blush2: But suffice to say, my hands have been plenty dirty.


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## JVSVA (Apr 11, 2012)

I have a very nice helmet already, but thanks for checking. Once I get dome more cash, I plan on getting shoes/pedals. Then Probably a cyclocomputer or any other parts I feel like swapping out. 

Any recommendations for shoes/pedals? I can't decide between road shoes or mountain shoes... I like the enhanced walkability of mountain shoes, and I was looking at eggbeater pedals so they would work well together.


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## froze (Sep 15, 2002)

PJ352 said:


> lol, calm yerself, froze. My post was written tongue in cheek (as they say).
> 
> I don't love using gloves either, and if they don't work for you, don't use them. Your method is fine as well.
> 
> ...



Sorry, I thought you were being serious!! Silly me. Most bikes are not that dirty anyways, I've helped many broken down bikes in my years and most of the time simply wiping my hands on grass got them clean enough, and when that doesn't work well enough I use a Orange Goop towelette.


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## PJ352 (Dec 5, 2007)

JVSVA said:


> I have a very nice helmet already, but thanks for checking. Once I get dome more cash, I plan on getting shoes/pedals. Then Probably a cyclocomputer or any other parts I feel like swapping out.
> 
> Any recommendations for shoes/pedals? I can't decide between road shoes or mountain shoes... *I like the enhanced walkability of mountain shoes*, and I was looking at eggbeater pedals so they would work well together.


Then that might be your answer. Visit some shops, discuss the road versus MTB options/ pedal compatibility with them, try on some shoes (with shoes, try before you buy) and go from there. 

There's no right or wrong here, so let your criteria (I suspect walk-ability) be your guide.


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## JVSVA (Apr 11, 2012)

Yeah, since I'm not into racing crits or time trials, it's not like the small amount of added weight will hurt me. My mom wears MTB shoes and has for awhile. She has had no problems. On our rides we sometimes stop to eat or go in the bike shop (which is right next to the trail).


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## SolitaryRider (Oct 20, 2011)

*"Any recommendations for shoes/pedals?"*

Shoes/pedalsDirect.com


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## JeffReigns (Apr 1, 2012)

In my (limited)experience, I've found that a lot of the 'bigger name' dealers won't move on price as much. I had a guy offer me a brand new '12 Raleigh Revenio 2.0 for $650 bucks, and a 3.0 for $800. The other dealers I went to often wouldn't budge on the price or wouldn't make a 'great' deal on something. 

Just my two cents, YMMV.


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## velocanman (Jul 15, 2011)

Pick the ones you can ride, test ride them, and buy the one that feels the best.


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## RB Mike (Feb 23, 2011)

JayTee said:


> Lots of BD shilling still going around. Look, for quality, service, exchanges, and resale value, the generic Asian frames brand stamped by BD as "whatever" are not the way (especially for a new rider) to go.


Wow. 3 days after the fact, a forum member jumps into this thread and doles out "negative rep" to anyone suggesting a purchase from Bikes Direct. 

Guess sharing my experience, opinion and even a couple private messages with OP (all in an attempt to help a beginner get deeper into the sport) earns me an ugly red rep under my name?

Shame on JayTee.

I think this is a black mark on the RBR forum that the system allows rep points to be distributed for off-topic posts, and in turn, allows bad rep points to be distributed for adding relevant content that may ruffle some industry/establishment feathers.


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## SolitaryRider (Oct 20, 2011)

I pay absolutely no attention to the "rep" points- the whole idea is ridiculous- seems like something intended for 6 year-olds. Like everyone clamoring for others to "friend them" on Facebook (I don't do Facebook). 

I just say my piece......offer my opinion- hoping it will make some others think. I don't care if anyone likes it or not....nor if they like me or not. 

Mike, wear the "red badge" with pride! If some idjit cares enough to push the buttons on you, you've likely done your job and made them think; or made them realize that something in their own thinking is wron, and rather than confronting themselves on that, they instead try and make the one who provided the stimuli look bad, since all it takes is the pushing of a button, as opposed to any real thought.


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## froze (Sep 15, 2002)

I agree. And on top of that Bikes Direct pays for advertising on RBR, you would think RBR would be a bit more diligent in protecting that revenue source...not to the point of not allowing honest opinions either positive or negative to be expressed, but to the point of fraudulent opinions and or statements and JayTee's post was full of fraudulent statements.

Then read the rest of JayTees comments and you see he's very much an elitist by directly saying that no one should listen to anyone with less posts then him which I addressed in post 47 in response to that post of his.

So Road Bike Mike, sorry but because you only have 43 posts, so your comments cannot be of any use nor of any value to any one until you exceed the post count of JayTee's.


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## RB Mike (Feb 23, 2011)

SolitaryRider said:


> Mike, wear the "red badge" with pride! If some idjit cares enough to push the buttons on you, you've likely done your job and made them think; or made them realize that something in their own thinking is wron, and rather than confronting themselves on that, they instead try and make the one who provided the stimuli look bad, since all it takes is the pushing of a button, as opposed to any real thought.


good advice! I need to detach from the real world where personally and professionally I subscribe to the idea that you only get one reputation and what can take years to build can be torn down in minutes.


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## SolitaryRider (Oct 20, 2011)

RB Mike said:


> good advice! I need to detach from the real world where personally and professionally I subscribe to the idea that you only get one reputation and what can take years to build can be torn down in minutes.


It's kind of like feedback on Ebay these days- a few scammers or kooks can destroy someone's long-standing good feedback/reputation undeservedly, by reason of the fact that the playing field is no longer level. 

The good guys still know who the other good guys are though-, and like in real-life, you can't hide your real reputation, even if a few would use an unjust system to try and make ya look bad.

So, I take it you're THE Mike, from BD? Well if so, I'd like to thank you for making it possible for so many of us to have great bikes at great prices!


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## RB Mike (Feb 23, 2011)

SolitaryRider said:


> So, I take it you're THE Mike, from BD? Well if so, I'd like to thank you for making it possible for so many of us to have great bikes at great prices!


LOL, nope not that Mike.


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## Squrkey (Mar 24, 2012)

RB Mike said:


> Wow. 3 days after the fact, a forum member jumps into this thread and doles out "negative rep" to anyone suggesting a purchase from Bikes Direct.
> 
> Guess sharing my experience, opinion and even a couple private messages with OP (all in an attempt to help a beginner get deeper into the sport) earns me an ugly red rep under my name?
> 
> ...


RBMike,

Thanks for being an enthusiast. I appreciate your post and have learned much from you. I think that the people who matter can relate to people with balanced and open minds,versus those with hidden or stated agendas.


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## Camilo (Jun 23, 2007)

The correct answer is YES


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## froze (Sep 15, 2002)

camilo said:


> the correct answer is yes


no!!!!


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## SolitaryRider (Oct 20, 2011)

Camilo said:


> The correct answer is YES


Even if that were so....so what? Notice you don't see anyone from Trek or Specialized participating on here, despite the fact that their bikes with the same frames and same components can cost twice as much......


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## AndrwSwitch (May 28, 2009)

Correct answer to what? This thread has taken a turn for the confusing. And, the OP bought a bike.


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## Camilo (Jun 23, 2007)

Sorry, I hadn't read the stupid silly thread degeneration before I posted "Yes" in response to the poll.

It is a smart-ash answer to any question that I think doesn't have an answer or has more than one correct answer. And the truth is, any of those bikes are just fine and for a newby could probably be perfectly satisfactory. Depending on his individual fit and tastes, sure, there might be one he prefers, but none are bad choices on their face.

And that's the truth (anyone get that reference)?


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## SolitaryRider (Oct 20, 2011)

Camilo said:


> And that's the truth (anyone get that reference)?


Sounds like I'm not the only old fogie on this forum! 

Uhh...err...."Nevermind"........


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## AndrwSwitch (May 28, 2009)

Camilo said:


> Sorry, I hadn't read the stupid silly thread degeneration before I posted "Yes" in response to the poll.
> 
> It is a smart-ash answer to any question that I think doesn't have an answer or has more than one correct answer. And the truth is, any of those bikes are just fine and for a newby could probably be perfectly satisfactory. Depending on his individual fit and tastes, sure, there might be one he prefers, but none are bad choices on their face.


LOL, I figured it out later. But since the poll was a couple pages ago and the thread has gone to arguing about catalog bikes since then...


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## MudSpec (Apr 4, 2012)

This is my first post on this forum so my opinion is probably not worth much but...I just bought my first roadbike and I got a Cannondale Synapse 6 with Tiagra components. Picked up a 2011 model so I got $350 off ($850 after tax, instead of $1,200). I figured if the bike was ok 12 months ago it is probably still ok.


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## MudSpec (Apr 4, 2012)

...and by buying it from my LBS I got free lifetime tune-ups on the bike. I considered the Motobecane Vent Noir as well but you can't get the additional complimentary services from bikesdirect (obviously).


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## froze (Sep 15, 2002)

MudSpec said:


> ...and by buying it from my LBS I got free lifetime tune-ups on the bike. I considered the Motobecane Vent Noir as well but you can't get the additional complimentary services from bikesdirect (obviously).


That's true you can't get that service from BD, most bike shops don't give that service either so you got lucky. If I owned a bike shop I would give out a free lifetime of tune-ups, because it's good for business, you bring your bike in for the free tune-up then I find things wrong to charge you for the parts and labor to fix. So in the end I make a real nice profit from my "free" service.


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