# How Far Would You Go?



## mikiek (Aug 18, 2014)

I've been riding for about8 months now. Started looking for longer rides in my area which is really nice for riding - a lot of country roads, rolling hills, etc.

I was on the Garmin site using their tool to map out a ride, this one in particular was about 30 miles. It looked pretty good on the satellite map. I downloaded it to my GPS.

Was all prepared to ride it this week, but wisely decided to drive it first. Turns out at mile 11 there is a right turn that heads down a county road for about 7 miles. We call the stuff caliche in Texas, sort of packed clay/dirt with gravel (large & small) mixed in. The CR turned out surfaced with caliche. There were some reasonably smooth spots and some pretty bad.

I ride a fairly average road bike, deep V wheels - 19mm width - with 25mm road tires that I keep at about 110tps. Needless to say I feel a lot of road when I ride, even on paved streets.

So my question is where do you draw the line on a ride? I suppose I could have gone down that road but it would have been an effort, dodging rocks, potholes, etc. Do you sometimes just put up with that? Of course safety is going to have to figure in at some point, not to mention damaged equipment.


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## AndrwSwitch (May 28, 2009)

I haven't used that kind of pressure in my tires in years. I weigh 145 lb; not sure where you're at.

A lot of my road rides have had some exploration on soft-surfaced roads. If I'm planning to ride a lot of miles on them, I'll choose my 'cross tires, though. 34 mm, with a medium tread for that width. Not sure what my record for riding gravel with that setup is. A couple hours, anyway.

If I had time, I'd probably keep following my route unless it got to a condition that scared me. I can always turn around. Though I hate doing it.

7 miles on gravel is a lot on 25 mm tires, though.


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## Mcfarton (May 23, 2014)

I maped out a lop of about 35 miles for a solo Saturday morning ride. The goal was to ride up a local mountain. Did it snd was fairly tiered. The next road was lose gravel for around 3 miles. That wasn't too bad. But Around mile 30 i came to a stream crossing. I would have to back track around 10 miles to avoid it. I decided that I could ride through it. I was wrong. Crank, hubs, and feet submerged. Luckily I have cartridge bearings but my shoes have plenty of holes. I road the last few miles with wet feet. It was not my favorite part. Could have been avoided if i scouted the ride but oh well. I still look at Google maps and just take off to roads unknown. I think its half the adventure.


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## Kerry Irons (Feb 25, 2002)

mikiek said:


> 25mm road tires that I keep at about 110tps. Needless to say I feel a lot of road when I ride, even on paved streets.


Assuming you mean psi when you type "tps" - unless you're quite heavy, that's pretty high pressure for 25 mm tires. Lots of people ride them at 80-90 psi max and lots ride them lower than that.



mikiek said:


> So my question is where do you draw the line on a ride? I suppose I could have gone down that road but it would have been an effort, dodging rocks, potholes, etc. Do you sometimes just put up with that? Of course safety is going to have to figure in at some point, not to mention damaged equipment.


I'm a pavement guy and rarely will ride gravel unless I come upon construction that I can't avoid or a short distance to get where I need to go. I'm not exploring new routes much so I don't get surprised. If I have doubts in planning a route, Google satellite will usually show me where the gravel is.


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## mikiek (Aug 18, 2014)

AndrwSwitch said:


> I haven't used that kind of pressure in my tires in years. I weigh 145 lb; not sure where you're at..


I am around 210 headed down from 220 hence the higher pressure usually. I do have some new 25mm wheels on the way, which under normal conditions would allow me to ride at a reduced pressure.



AndrwSwitch said:


> A lot of my road rides have had some exploration on soft-surfaced roads. If I'm planning to ride a lot of miles on them, I'll choose my 'cross tires, though. 34 mm, with a medium tread for that width. Not sure what my record for riding gravel with that setup is. A couple hours, anyway.


As simple as that sounds, I never considered keeping a meatier set of tires for those 'dicey' rides. A great idea!


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## AndrwSwitch (May 28, 2009)

Be aware that traditional road bikes have limited tire clearance. IME, sidepull brakes tend to be able to clear a 28 mm tire. Fatter than that tends to require that the person who designed the bike was thinking about clearance. I got rid of my tight-clearance road bike about a year and a half ago - it was too big for me - and haven't replaced it. So I'm doing most of my road riding on my 'cross bike, though usually I use skinny tires lately.

This being bikes, nothing is consistently true. So it's worth test-fitting fatter tires if that's the direction you want to go in. At least find out what you can use.


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## ericm979 (Jun 26, 2005)

mikiek said:


> I suppose I could have gone down that road but it would have been an effort, dodging rocks, potholes, etc. Do you sometimes just put up with that?


Depends on if the overall ride is worth it. I've ridden dirt trails, gravel roads and even in snow on my road bike. Flat or up hill is no problem as long as there's not deep soft stuff. Going down can be more difficult. Hard packed dirt is pretty easy riding. Road bikes can do more than you think- you just need to be careful.

One time I even clambered across a recent landslide that was across the road. Had to carry the bike and climb over downed trees. When I got to the other side a MTBer in a car on the way to a popular riding area pulled up, looked at it and turned around. It took me ten minutes to clean the mud out of my cleats so they'd engage the pedals.


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## mikiek (Aug 18, 2014)

AndrwSwitch said:


> Be aware that traditional road bikes have limited tire clearance.


I was considering that. Looked at my frame and brakes and I feel like I'm good on more width. Height has me wondering, there's about 4-5mm between the top of the tire and the cross piece where the brake mounts. So I've been looking at tires with more tread than road tires, but trying to avoid the 'knobby' type tires that might add too much height.

I'm starting to think anything that will run well at lower tire pressures will give me what I'm looking for. It's the loose gravel that has me most concerned. I'm not going to riding around in the mud.


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## brucew (Jun 3, 2006)

I think you're on the right track. Run the widest tires you can stuff in there, and run them at lower pressure.

Road bikes are not the delicate little flowers some people make them out to be, although 23 mm tires can be.

I'm 50 pounds lighter. I find no issues whatsoever with 25mm tires at 65F/75R on the 5-mile dirt and gravel road between my family's cabin in the back woods of Ontario Canada, and the paved road. I've taken my cross bike with cross tires, and I think I'm faster through there with the roadie and 25s. Certainly feels faster anyway.


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## CliffordK (Jun 6, 2014)

I avoid gravel when I can, perhaps back to the days when I had sewups on and one just had to look at them crossways and ended up with a flat. I still usually walk Mom's driveway. Sometimes I do ride it, but I just got in the habit of a 1/4 mile warmup/cooldown walk.

However, not all surfaces are made alike. The Katy trail in Missouri goes on for miles with a hard packed sand surface (unless you hit it just after snow has melted when it turns to mush), and I rode the trail many times while I was there, using the regular narrow street tires.

I've ridden around the Crooked River ranch too, generally well groomed pumice surface. 

There are a group of Roubaix races in the USA which are basically road races with gravel segments. I haven't tried one, but there is a local one that might be fun.


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## NJBiker72 (Jul 9, 2011)

mikiek said:


> I've been riding for about8 months now. Started looking for longer rides in my area which is really nice for riding - a lot of country roads, rolling hills, etc.
> 
> I was on the Garmin site using their tool to map out a ride, this one in particular was about 30 miles. It looked pretty good on the satellite map. I downloaded it to my GPS.
> 
> ...


Sometimes we seek this out. It is fun. Adds a different element. 25 mm tires are fine for it.


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## 2:01 (May 10, 2010)

brucew said:


> I think you're on the right track. Run the widest tires you can stuff in there, and run them at lower pressure...


I'm with brucew on this. Run wider tires. I've ridden down plenty of dirt/gravel roads on 25mm tires and had a blast, but 28mm feels much better for me (and better yet, 32mm Paselas). But for your type of riding, I'd think 28 would be the "sweet spot." Get some Gatorskins for durability or for plushness and less weight (but less protection), Grand Bois Cerf's.

And for the record, I seek out dirt/gravel whenever I can.


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## froze (Sep 15, 2002)

It depends on your riding skills. I have a road bike with 700c 25 tires on semi deep dish rims (and before that bike I did the same thing using 700c x23 tires on a semi aero rim (not semi deep) and have ran into many gravel and dirt roads and have had no issues unless the gravel gets deep and soft but these are gravel roads and that just doesn't happen. I do ride quite a bit slower due to the possibility of skidding out but I haven't done that in 30 plus years riding gravel roads. The 25's are less squeamish on gravel then the 23's but using a 23 never stopped me, I'm all about the adventure so I don't let gravel or dirt roads stop me, I've even had to transverse long sections of grass and weeds on my road bike. None of this has ever damaged a bike, if you go too fast you will let stones fly and damage paint so ride within reason, but since I got my Titanium bike I've ridden gravel roads a bit faster than I did with my painted steel bikes and stones hit the frame but they don't even mark the TI.

The furthest I traveled on a gravel road was 5 miles, but the longest dirt trail I did on a road bike was the Kal Haven Trail (name?), anyway I started in South Haven Mi and went to Kalamazoo Mi and back (about 78 miles total round trip). Now this trail is some sort of pressed slag over top an old RxR but when it gets wet it can have some interesting moments.


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## cparrish (Jun 21, 2010)

I am in the 210 range and with a 25mm tire 80-90 psi is fine, I usually keep 28s on there at 70. I end up on gravel all the time and while I might grab the cross bike If I know its going to be gnarly it's rarely necessary. Keep in mind most teams ride 28s through Paris-Roubaix.


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## froze (Sep 15, 2002)

cparrish said:


> I am in the 210 range and with a 25mm tire 80-90 psi is fine, I usually keep 28s on there at 70. I end up on gravel all the time and while I might grab the cross bike If I know its going to be gnarly it's rarely necessary. Keep in mind most teams ride 28s through Paris-Roubaix.


According to what I've read the pros in the Pari-Roubaix race run as narrow as a 24.7 to 26mm, Colnago used a 30 on cyclocross bikes. Hutchinson tires (which produces most of the tires just with different brand markings) run 28mm but those actually run almost a full size smaller then marked. The next major producer of tires for that race is Challenge Paris Roubaix tires, and those are a 27mm. None of these tires except the 24.7 won't fit 95% of the road bikes (note not including cyclocross) ridden on this forum because most road bikes were not built to accept anything larger then a 25. This is one of the reasons I bought the Lynskey Peloton because that Silver series of bikes could accept up to a 28 which gives me a larger tire size option that other road bikes I looked at could not.


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## UrbanPrimitive (Jun 14, 2009)

2:01 said:


> or for plushness and less weight (but less protection), Grand Bois Cerf's.


To avoid hijacking this thread, could you make a post with your thoughts/experience with these? I've been _really_ curious about them for a while.


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## 2:01 (May 10, 2010)

UP - Just FYI, I have the Cerf Blue 700x26 tires and I only have a handful of rides on them. Longest was last weekend at 50 miles. I previously had Vittoria Rubino Pro 23 and Gatorskin 28. I won't even go into comparison with those tires, as it won't be fair. I was running the Rubino's at 120psi and Gatorskins at 90 (waay too much). I had these at around 75psi. I weigh ~160lbs.

Ride is super plush. It's like a Cadi DeVille going over rougher pavement. Even compared to bigger tires (I have Gatorskin 28 at 70PSI on another bike) and it feels much smoother. Weight is noticeable, too, especially coming from the Gatorskin. I weighed it at 223g, which is same as Rubino Pro 23.

One thing I didn't like was the squirminess (around turns--and at speed, a bit unnerving). Probably due to the lower pressue and the narrow rims. I am wondering how they'll feel on 23mm HED's or A23's (or 25mm rims). Lack of protection was a bit of a concern as well, and in fact, a goat head got me on my first ride out. But I just pulled 3 goat heads from my Gatorskin from a ride yesterday, so maybe wouldn't have mattered.

It's a tire definitely worth trying out. I also have 650b Hetre's on another bike, and although a little sluggish, they've performed well. They make quality tires (Panaracer/GB). My next tire will probably be Compass to see how they compare.


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## jrm (Dec 23, 2001)

ive ridden my 25c equipped defy on singletrack and gravel. The key is too take on a upright position with your hands on the tops and shift your butt towards the fan of the eat. When combined together you end up unweighting the front end allowing the front wheel to float over the rougher surface. Also air down if you have too for that segment and then air back up afters.


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## AndrwSwitch (May 28, 2009)

I find myself bothered by this suggestion. I was trying to think why. I don't approach riding trails on my 'cross bike this way, but then I also have it set up with several millimeters less drop than how I set it up for road riding.

I'd expect moving all my weight back to make my front end sketchy. It's a suggestion one sees a lot in MTB too, but I feel like more advanced riders tend to be more centered, and move around pretty actively from that base.

So, a question - do you have a lot of weight on your hands?


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## skinewmexico (Apr 19, 2010)

I've been on a lot of caliche roads in Texas that I drove at 80 mph. Like others have said, widest tires that will fit, and lower pressure. Pick your way thru the bad spots, and ride normal where it is good. Be careful on clearance though. We rode on pavement a while back after a rain, and where trucks had tracked caliche out on the road, it built up on the frame of my Ridley Noah (with 25mm) and made quite a bit of rub. Found out later that the 25s rubbed under a big load anyway, so back to 23s. And that is why my normal road bike now is a cross bike. More comfortable on pavement, and I get a big smile when I come to a gravel/caliche road.


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## schwinnhund (Jul 26, 2013)

I go as far as I want. I do not even have a Drivers License, meaning I am a totally free person. Just a suggestion, but try to quit planning rides. Just hop on your bike, pick a direction and go. Take roads you've never been on before and see where they go. If you hit an area you don't want to ride over, then don't. Turn around and pick another route. When you are done, go home. Sometimes, knowing the route ahead of time takes all the fun out of it.


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## Midlifecyclist (Nov 29, 2014)

I have some rides around me, here in Illinois, that have a lot of varying road surfaces. I have 2 sets of rims for my tourer, one for road only days, which are narrower, and run 25 or 28mm tires, and a set that is wider, for 32-38mm tires, for "mixed media" events. Sometimes you can go from oil and gravel, asphalt or concrete roads straight to coarse gravel, or rock roads. These can be real tube killers, if you don't have wider tires. or have a good load on a touring bicycle. A place west of me has gravel roads and steep hills, and this seems to be a real test for tires and tubes. That's a good reason for using a tourer or CX bike, they give you versatility, and allow changes needed for conditions.


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## AndrwSwitch (May 28, 2009)

A friend of mine just bought a Specialized AWOL. So yesterday, we broke it in. 14 miles on old logging roads, some devolved all the way to singletrack, and with a couple natural-surface trail links. There was about 3000' of climbing too.

It was a lot of fun.

But like I said in Post #2, I use 34 mm tires for that kind of thing. I was a little envious of his 42s, but not enough to go out and buy a set (if they'd even clear.)


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## robt57 (Jul 23, 2011)

AndrwSwitch said:


> A friend of mine just bought a Specialized AWOL. So yesterday, we broke it in. 14 miles on old logging roads, some devolved all the way to singletrack, and with a couple natural-surface trail links. There was about 3000' of climbing too.
> 
> It was a lot of fun.
> 
> But like I said in Post #2, I use 34 mm tires for that kind of thing. I was a little envious of his 42s, but not enough to go out and buy a set (if they'd even clear.)


My last few time out on a logging road, nothing resembling single track, but 40+ miles of logging road with a couple long gravel filled washouts. Second to last ride, 33 Ralphs, last one 42C Speed Rides [38mm in real life] on a TCX. Night and day!

33s I watched my friend on his duely MTB disappear in front of me on a couple mile descent. 42C tires I watched him shrink and disappear in my lens mounted mirror. Huge difference on the well chopped up pack crap.

If you can fit them, IMO, you owe it to yourself to give the 42s a try.  In the case of the Conti Speed Ride 42s you only have to fit 38s.


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## AndrwSwitch (May 28, 2009)

LOL, I'll keep that in mind. 

Now that nice tires with widths falling between 'cross and mountain are available, I'm already planning to get the fattest fancy knobbies that will clear my brakes and derailleur when I wear out what I've got now.


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