# Ricco....



## wiz525 (Dec 31, 2007)

I know it was mentioned in another thread, but given Ricco's past, surely this deserves a new thread!



> Italian media are reporting that Riccardo Riccò faces doping inquiries after being hospitalized on Sunday with a high fever and signs of kidney failure.
> 
> The newspaper Gazzetta dello Sport reported Tuesday that the doctor who treated the Vacansoleil rider told police that the cyclist had said in the presence of his girlfriend, Vania Rossi, that he had tranfused himself with blood kept in the refrigerator for 25 days and feared it might have been stored improperly.


http://velonews.competitor.com/2011...iccardo-ricco-confessed-to-transfusion_159339

This sport gets more and more awesome every day. For some reason, I wasn't the biggest fan of the one and done rule, but I'm getting converted. One strike you're out should be the new policy IMO.


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## baker921 (Jul 20, 2007)

wiz525 said:


> One strike you're out should be the new policy IMO.


... and it could just save some lives. But no one's going to thank you for it.


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## kbwh (May 28, 2010)

What a f#¤%head. Wonder if Aldo Sassi could have saved him at all.


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## JSR (Feb 27, 2006)

Early candidate for the 2011 Flandis Hypocrite of the Year award.


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## Wookiebiker (Sep 5, 2005)

Dopers never learn (mostly because you can't be competitive without doping)...Anybody still think the likes of Basso, DiLuca, and company are really clean?


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## Red Sox Junkie (Sep 15, 2005)

not much of a surprise. For some reason, I never thought his comeback would be clean. Oh well, just another day for cycling.


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## pianopiano (Jun 4, 2005)

*The Cobra is (almost) dead.*

This is not just about Ricardo Ricco. This is a confirmation that cycling has a BIG problem, and that doping is alive and well. It is also a confirmation that the UCI is indeed rotten to the core, and as Sylvia Schenk has rightly suggested, the time has come for a full investigation. 

For those who post here saying things like 'why are transfusions banned' and 'let them take anything that they want to', is this not enough of an example that there are very real health concerns and dangers regarding most doping practices? I know some of you see cycling as just entertainment and nothing else, removing any thread of humanity or compassion, which is your choice, but these _are_ human beings. What if Ricardo Ricco had died? Do we really need to witness another Tommy Simpson, Marco Pantani, or Jose Maria Jimenez tragedy? Would that fulfill peoples cravings for pure entertainment and a 'really exciting race'? 

Meanwhile guys like DiLuca and Vinokourov continue to race, and McQuaid keeps running the show. 

It's disgusting.


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## rydbyk (Feb 17, 2010)

piano said:


> This is not just about Ricardo Ricco. This is a confirmation that cycling has a BIG problem, and that doping is alive and well. It is also a confirmation that the UCI is indeed rotten to the core, and as Sylvia Schenk has rightly suggested, the time has come for a full investigation.
> 
> For those who post here saying things like 'why are transfusions banned' and 'let them take anything that they want to', is this not enough of an example that there are very real health concerns and dangers regarding most doping practices? I know some of you see cycling as just entertainment and nothing else, removing any thread of humanity or compassion, which is your choice, but these _are_ human beings. What if Ricardo Ricco had died? Do we really need to witness another Tommy Simpson, Marco Pantani, or Jose Maria Jimenez tragedy? Would that fulfill peoples cravings for pure entertainment and a 'really exciting race'?
> 
> ...



Yeh, sort of. They are adults. Adults who make decisions. Anyone in professional cycling knows about doping BEFORE they are offered PEDs for the first time. Still, they pursue professional cycling. My opinion of course..


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## robdamanii (Feb 13, 2006)

rydbyk said:


> Yeh, sort of. They are adults. Adults who make decisions. Anyone in professional cycling knows about doping BEFORE they are offered PEDs for the first time. Still, they pursue professional cycling. My opinion of course..


Agree. If someone puts cocaine in front of you, it's your choice to snuff it up your nose.

And if you kill yourself doing it, you have nobody to blame but yourself.


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## mtbbmet (Apr 2, 2005)

piano said:


> It is also a confirmation that the UCI is indeed rotten to the core, and as Sylvia Schenk has rightly suggested, the time has come for a full investigation.


This statement is idiotic. How do you connect Ricco's reported doping as the UCI being corrupt. It is an ignorant thing to type, at best.
And Pantani didn't die from PED abuse, he died because he was a blow head who went a bit too far one night. Don't try and make him a victim of the sport, he was a cokehead.


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## den bakker (Nov 13, 2004)

rydbyk said:


> Yeh, sort of. They are adults. Adults who make decisions. Anyone in professional cycling knows about doping BEFORE they are offered PEDs for the first time. Still, they pursue professional cycling. My opinion of course..


Considering doping has been used at 15 years of age for some cyclists, I'm curious just what you mean by adult.


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## spade2you (May 12, 2009)

Yeahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh


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## DIRT BOY (Aug 22, 2002)

man, this guy is an idiot! If he surveys, he just spill the beans and blow things up.


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## The Tedinator (Mar 12, 2004)

To me, the only thing that this confirms is that Ricardo Ricco is an idiot.


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## shades9323 (Apr 30, 2006)

piano said:


> This is not just about Ricardo Ricco. This is a confirmation that cycling has a BIG problem, and that doping is alive and well. It is also a confirmation that the UCI is indeed rotten to the core, and as Sylvia Schenk has rightly suggested, the time has come for a full investigation.
> 
> For those who post here saying things like 'why are transfusions banned' and 'let them take anything that they want to', is this not enough of an example that there are very real health concerns and dangers regarding most doping practices? I know some of you see cycling as just entertainment and nothing else, removing any thread of humanity or compassion, which is your choice, but these _are_ human beings. What if Ricardo Ricco had died? Do we really need to witness another Tommy Simpson, Marco Pantani, or Jose Maria Jimenez tragedy? Would that fulfill peoples cravings for pure entertainment and a 'really exciting race'?
> 
> ...



This could be a reason to legalize doping. Then a medical professional can oversee that they are doing it correctly and don't do dumb stuff like Ricco.


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## SilasCL (Jun 14, 2004)

shades9323 said:


> This could be a reason to legalize doping. Then a medical professional can oversee that they are doing it correctly and don't do dumb stuff like Ricco.


We've been through this before. Do you really trust a medical professional who is willing to break their own professional ethics and dope an athlete to then have that athlete's best interests at heart?


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## tinkerbeast (Jul 24, 2009)

robdamanii said:


> Agree. If someone puts cocaine in front of you, it's your choice to snuff it up your nose.
> 
> And if you kill yourself doing it, you have nobody to blame but yourself.


Unfortunately not everything is as simple as that. With the enormous pressures these guys are under to perform, it tends to skew the decision, and with a huge number of external factors to consider things stop being as clear cut. 

Or, if i were to put things in terms of the logic of your argument, you don't look at a street kid and tell them that the fact that they probably won't get a higher education is because it was their decision and not the socio-economic conditions. Hence you can't definitively point fingers at the athlete for taking PEDs.


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## robdamanii (Feb 13, 2006)

tinkerbeast said:


> Unfortunately not everything is as simple as that. With the enormous pressures these guys are under to perform, it tends to skew the decision, and with a huge number of external factors to consider things stop being as clear cut.
> 
> Or, if i were to put things in terms of the logic of your argument, you don't look at a street kid and tell them that the fact that they probably won't get a higher education is because it was their decision and not the socio-economic conditions. Hence you can't definitively point fingers at the athlete for taking PEDs.


How the hell can't I?

HE stuck the needle in his arm, HE injected blood that could have killed him, and I am supposed to feel sorry for him because his mental or physical inadequacies led him to cheat?

I don't care IF he cheats, but this crap of "blame the system" doesn't work. If they get busted, they get busted and they need to take some personal responsibility for what they've done.


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## mohair_chair (Oct 3, 2002)

To me, the only shocking part of this story is how the concept of doctor-patient confidentiality either must not exist or must be very different in Italy.


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## concretejungle (Jul 13, 2009)

mohair_chair said:


> To me, the only shocking part of this story is how the concept of doctor-patient confidentiality either must not exist or must be very different in Italy.


As has been mentioned elsewhere since doping is illegal in Italy the doctor has to say something. Doctor-patient confidentiality doesn't apply if a crime is committed.


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## jorgy (Oct 21, 2005)

SilasCL said:


> We've been through this before. Do you really trust a medical professional who is willing to break their own professional ethics and dope an athlete to then have that athlete's best interests at heart?


I bet that doctor that drugged a guy to do a rectal exam would do it.

Unfortunately, there's no lack of sleaze within the medical industry.


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## jorgy (Oct 21, 2005)

concretejungle said:


> Doctor-patient confidentiality doesn't apply if a crime is committed.


I don't think the rule is quite that broad in the US. More if they pose a danger to themselves or others.


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## terzo rene (Mar 23, 2002)

There is no such thing as Dr patient confidentiality in the US. If someone shows up with a court order it's going to get released.

The problem with the current system is guys on low budget teams, like Ricco, end up doing stupid things like home transfusions (after storing the blood next to the pastrami for a month or two), while guys like LA get the best medical attention that money can buy. Letting them all dope without worrying about getting caught would at least allow everyone to have decent medical supervision. An autologous transfusion isn't much danger at all, but doing one with blood that's not been properly stored is another story.


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## rydbyk (Feb 17, 2010)

den bakker said:


> Considering doping has been used at 15 years of age for some cyclists, I'm curious just what you mean by adult.


The "system" forced which 15 year old to use PEDs? Just curious.. Now that would seem like a true crime if an adult within the "system" offered a child PEDs..


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## den bakker (Nov 13, 2004)

rydbyk said:


> The "system" forced which 15 year old to use PEDs? Just curious.. Now that would seem like a true crime if an adult within the "system" offered a child PEDs..


Geneviève Jeanson said that was when she started.


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## waldo425 (Sep 22, 2008)

The Tedinator said:


> To me, the only thing that this confirms is that Ricardo Ricco is an idiot.


This I can agree with. 

Some people make mistakes but others are just plain stupid. Ricco is an idiot plain and simple. He doesn't speak for everyone.


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## heathb (Nov 1, 2008)

I was mentioning this in the Landis thread that these cyclists haven't been trained to collect and transfuse blood. As a MedTech I can't possibly imagine someone playing around with autologous blood if they hadn't been trained properly, and by that I mean going to school for years.

I hope he didn't get any units of blood mixed up with another rider. ABO mismatch is a nice way to fry your kidneys or end up dead quick. There's also the possibility that his blood was collected without properly sterilizing the punture site and then storing it at too warm a temperture risking bacterial growth. And of course who knows if the blood was anticoagulated properly, he could have been infusing microclots.


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## shades9323 (Apr 30, 2006)

SilasCL said:


> We've been through this before. Do you really trust a medical professional who is willing to break their own professional ethics and dope an athlete to then have that athlete's best interests at heart?



I would trust them more than I would trust the professional cyclist who has no education in the medical profession.


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## orange_julius (Jan 24, 2003)

heathb said:


> I was mentioning this in the Landis thread that these cyclists haven't been trained to collect and transfuse blood. As a MedTech I can't possibly imagine someone playing around with autologous blood if they hadn't been trained properly, and by that I mean going to school for years.
> 
> I hope he didn't get any units of blood mixed up with another rider. ABO mismatch is a nice way to fry your kidneys or end up dead quick. There's also the possibility that his blood was collected without properly sterilizing the punture site and then storing it at too warm a temperture risking bacterial growth. And of course who knows if the blood was anticoagulated properly, he could have been infusing microclots.


Mixing-up is what Jesus Manzano claims happened regularly in the Kelme team back in the days.

http://forums.roadbikereview.com/showthread.php?t=70415

_After the 2003 Tour de France, Manzano said he felt sick after receiving a blood transfusion. He had gone to Valencia, where Fuentes' partners had transfused him with 175cc of blood.

"I felt badly and I fainted. When I came to I asked that they bring me to the hospital, but they refused," Manzano said.

"I do not know what happened to me, but I can say that the sachets of blood of the Kelme's riders... were not labelled, nor individualized for each sportsman."_


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## pigpen (Sep 28, 2005)

terzo rene said:


> There is no such thing as Dr patient confidentiality in the US. If someone shows up with a court order it's going to get released.
> 
> The problem with the current system is guys on low budget teams, like Ricco, end up doing stupid things like home transfusions (after storing the blood next to the pastrami for a month or two), while guys like LA get the best medical attention that money can buy. Letting them all dope without worrying about getting caught would at least allow everyone to have decent medical supervision. An autologous transfusion isn't much danger at all, but doing one with blood that's not been properly stored is another story.



The problem with this theory is that now everyone is doping and there will be a few or more that will attempt to push the limit beyond the medical supervision putting themselves in even more danger=more deaths.


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## pedalruns (Dec 18, 2002)

rydbyk said:


> The "system" forced which 15 year old to use PEDs? Just curious.. Now that would seem like a true crime if an adult within the "system" offered a child PEDs..


There was also Greg Strock and the U.S. JUNIOR cycling team back in the early 90's.... he was 17 and was given 'stuff' by the coaches that he trusted... I remember reading in on report he found a pill in his powerbar. 

http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2001/04/10/60II/main284958.shtml

"They(junior riders) don't know what was in those syringes, and they don't recall taking a drug test in those days. But they say the injections were given by the U.S.A. Cycling staff, including coach Rene Wenzel, trainer Angus Fraser and, according to documents, coach Chris Carmichael."

Chris Camichael settled out of court for an undisclosed amount...

http://velonews.competitor.com/2006/04/news/six-years-later-strock-case-comes-to-court_9763


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## peter.hardie (May 31, 2006)

rydbyk said:


> The "system" forced which 15 year old to use PEDs? Just curious.. Now that would seem like a true crime if an adult within the "system" offered a child PEDs..


I've read that Ricco started in his mid-teens, same with Basso.


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## Travis (Oct 14, 2005)

not to mention the trickle down effect of this doping concept. You'll have jr high and high schoolers trying to dope so they can make the leap to pro. The idea of legalized doping is just bad in so many ways. We need better and more thorough testing by a governing body that cares to solve the problem. If you reduce doping in the pros there is less incentive at the lower ranks


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## spade2you (May 12, 2009)

shades9323 said:


> This could be a reason to legalize doping. Then a medical professional can oversee that they are doing it correctly and don't do dumb stuff like Ricco.


Even when medically supervised, someone with normal blood counts taking EPO or getting transfused carries some pretty strong risks. Both have a pretty strong risk of throwing a clot, although tranfusions carry many risks like pulmonary edema, possible contamination, storage issues, type and cross matching, and many more. Ethics aside, I think the main reason that these are forbidden is that they're full of unsafe side effects.


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## mohair_chair (Oct 3, 2002)

terzo rene said:


> There is no such thing as Dr patient confidentiality in the US. If someone shows up with a court order it's going to get released.


To get that court order, you have to convince a judge that doctor-patient confidentiality does not apply. That's easier said than done.


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## bigmig19 (Jun 27, 2008)

Travis said:


> not to mention the trickle down effect of this doping concept. You'll have jr high and high schoolers trying to dope so they can make the leap to pro. The idea of legalized doping is just bad in so many ways. We need better and more thorough testing by a governing body that cares to solve the problem. If you reduce doping in the pros there is less incentive at the lower ranks


This got me thinking how I ended up in "no mans land" on the subject of doping. I think its a horrible idea and should be outlawed by suspending or expelling riders all together, BUUUUUUT........taking any stage win away, let alone Floyds TDF title, is utterly ridiculous and hypocritical. Doper A beat Dopers B-Z = fair and square. Is Riis still listed as TDF champ? Do they still sell tapes of the epic battle of Pantani V. UlRich etc.....licensed by the TDF? Hypocrites. Floyd is one of the most amazing TDF winners because he did what everyone else did and won. How many races did Eric Zabel and Pettachi by themselves win on dope? 100, 200 ? Thats just two guys.


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## rydbyk (Feb 17, 2010)

bigmig19 said:


> This got me thinking how I ended up in "no mans land" on the subject of doping. I think its a horrible idea and should be outlawed by suspending or expelling riders all together, BUUUUUUT........taking any stage win away, let alone Floyds TDF title, is utterly ridiculous and hypocritical. Doper A beat Dopers B-Z = fair and square. Is Riis still listed as TDF champ? Do they still sell tapes of the epic battle of Pantani V. UlRich etc.....licensed by the TDF? Hypocrites. Floyd is one of the most amazing TDF winners because he did what everyone else did and won. How many races did Eric Zabel and Pettachi by themselves win on dope? 100, 200 ? Thats just two guys.


Agreed


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## worst_shot_ever (Jul 27, 2009)

mohair_chair said:


> To get that court order, you have to convince a judge that doctor-patient confidentiality does not apply. That's easier said than done.


Depends who's seeking the information. I can't speak to civil cases, but in the US in federal criminal investigations, at least, (1) the federal rules of evidence recognize no such privilege (Dr.-Patient is a creature of state statute, not common law, so there is no such privilege under FRE 501), and (2) HIPPA restrictions do not prevent disclosure of medical records in a criminal investigation.


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## klr99 (Sep 4, 2004)

Personally, I'm Bummed!!!

Yes, he's an doping idiot. But I have to tell you, I was really looking forward to having him come back and race and be a show boat. If nothing else, he has some arrogance and personality. I like that.

The riders today are like melba toast. I want some guys who are a little unstable, fierce competitors and selfish. If Ricco would have been competitive, man that would have been entertaining!


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## worst_shot_ever (Jul 27, 2009)

I feel similarly. I was really excited to see how he did and what sort of fireworks with the peloton his comeback created. But I am even more bummed that my low expecatations of human nature may have been realized once more. At this point it is still just allegedly, but I really was hoping his attempted comeback from a drug ban would be legitimate and not through continued cheating. Foolish optimism, perhaps, but when you have so much to lose, I thought it was possible.


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## Fogdweller (Mar 26, 2004)

*Cav on Ricco*

Cav on Ricco: "I hope he recovers but I really hope that he becomes someone's ***** in prison."
http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/video-cavendish-aldag-and-kelly-react-to-ricco-doping-news

Back to PR school for the Manxman.


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## Fignon's Barber (Mar 2, 2004)

Fogdweller said:


> Cav on Ricco: "I hope he recovers but I really hope that he becomes someone's ***** in prison."
> http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/video-cavendish-aldag-and-kelly-react-to-ricco-doping-news
> 
> Back to PR school for the Manxman.


I was just going to post that clip but you beat me to it! Cav's closing remark is a perfect way to close the book on rico. gotta love Cav for the entertainment value, if he could only stop leaving patches of skin on the roads around the world and win some races.


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## Doctor Falsetti (Sep 24, 2010)

Fogdweller said:


> Cav on Ricco: "I hope he recovers but I really hope that he becomes someone's ***** in prison."
> https://www.cyclingnews.com/news/video-cavendish-aldag-and-kelly-react-to-ricco-doping-news
> 
> Back to PR school for the Manxman.


Ricco is the easy target, Pro's can insult him and pretend they are Anti doping. 

Why do we not hear the same for Valverde? The guy lied for 4 years, used every absurd legal maneuver in the books and embarrassed the sport with his stupid excuses. Valverde was part of this










and was riding on the same team at Manzano when this happened.


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## Wookiebiker (Sep 5, 2005)

To me all this shows is what I've thought for years now...To ride in the top level of the peloton (and even lower levels) you have to be doped to the gills to compete, regardless of where you are on the hierarchy of a team.

If you can't get team controlled doping, you do it yourself. At this time I have to believe that 100% of the top pro peloton is doped to one level or another. 

For those that don't believe...how many of these cases need to come up before you do? Does everybody have to test positive? The innocent until proven guilty argument just doesn't hold water any longer in pro cycling (or any pro level sport for that matter IMO).

To me, the difference between the top level pro's and the domestiques is how well they respond to the PED's and how good the doctors monitoring their PED regime are.


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## spade2you (May 12, 2009)

Oh snap!

http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/tests-prove-ricco-had-blood-transfusion-dutch-newspaper-says

As for Ricco' and the peloton, I really don't think he represents the peloton. The temptation is always out there, but there are simply folks out there who have zero will power to resist. There are people in this world who know right from wrong, but some people really don't comprehend that. I think Ricco' is one of them.


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## DIRT BOY (Aug 22, 2002)

Wookiebiker said:


> To me all this shows is what I've thought for years now...To ride in the top level of the peloton (and even lower levels) you have to be doped to the gills to compete, regardless of where you are on the hierarchy of a team.
> 
> If you can't get team controlled doping, you do it yourself. At this time I have to believe that 100% of the top pro peloton is doped to one level or another.
> 
> ...


I agree! I don't thing the human body can do these GT at the speed and duration they are now, without doping. Too long and the speeds are just too fast.


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## ttug (May 14, 2004)

*agreed*



DIRT BOY said:


> I agree! I don't thing the human body can do these GT at the speed and duration they are now, without doping. Too long and the speeds are just too fast.


Not only duration, but terrain and the proof? Look at the overall; average speeds, they increase........more mountains, longer duration in the harder climbs, TT's spaced closer to the climbs and yet......cant be natural, IMO


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## sbsbiker (Mar 29, 2008)

Second Offence = We will never see Ricco race again, Lifetime ban. Yes?

What I don't understand is why dope now why not wait till an important event?


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## ttug (May 14, 2004)

*my guess*



sbsbiker said:


> Second Offence = We will never see Ricco race again, Lifetime ban. Yes?
> 
> What I don't understand is why dope now why not wait till an important event?


He is trying to gain a benefit by training at an artificial high level. He will have performance gains because, he was able to train at the higher/doped level.

He can maintain the gains for a race later in the season


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## mohair_chair (Oct 3, 2002)

sbsbiker said:


> What I don't understand is why dope now why not wait till an important event?


For a relatively small and low profile team like Vacansoleil, every race is an important event. It's not a team like Radio Shack that doesn't care about anything except the TDF.


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## bikerboy337 (Jan 28, 2004)

That Cavendish quote is great.... wether you like him or not, he sure livens up the peleton...


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## merckxman (Jan 23, 2002)

Italian press: "Clinical tests performed on Riccardo Ricco corroborate the practice of self transfusion with non well-preserved blood."


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## Jesse D Smith (Jun 11, 2005)

ttug said:


> He is trying to gain a benefit by training at an artificial high level. He will have performance gains because, he was able to train at the higher/doped level.
> 
> He can maintain the gains for a race later in the season


If I understand the UCI passport system, they establish a "baseline" hematocrit level, by which your later tests will be judged. He could use blood doping to establish an artificially high baseline. 
He was training for the Tour Méditerranéen. Maybe he was impatient for an early result.


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## pdh777 (Oct 7, 2005)

Didn't his girlfreind get busted about 6 months after he did?


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## Fogdweller (Mar 26, 2004)

Doctor Falsetti said:


> Why do we not hear the same for Valverde?


Fogdweller: "I hope Valverde ends up as someone's ******* in prison."


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## worst_shot_ever (Jul 27, 2009)

pdh777 said:


> Didn't his girlfreind get busted about 6 months after he did?


Yes and no. While pregers, she tested pos for CERA, but B sample didn't (as I recall), so false positive and she was cleared. Ricco acted like a hypocritical ass about the thing, split up, then took her back when she was vindicated.


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## heathb (Nov 1, 2008)

If Ricco damaged his kidneys it's safe to say ban or no ban he's finished racing at an elite level. Dialysis doesn't fit very well into a training schedule. 

This could be a welcomed wake up call to all those idiots playing around with transfusions. I just wish a pathologist could create DVD program that would be required viewing by all pros about the dangers of transfusion even when all the precautions are taken, let alone when they aren't.


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## spade2you (May 12, 2009)

heathb said:


> If Ricco damaged his kidneys it's safe to say ban or no ban he's finished racing at an elite level. Dialysis doesn't fit very well into a training schedule.
> 
> This could be a welcomed wake up call to all those idiots playing around with transfusions. I just wish a pathologist could create DVD program that would be required viewing by all pros about the dangers of transfusion even when all the precautions are taken, let alone when they aren't.


The article mentioned kidney failure, but didn't indicate if this was acute or permanent.


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## Gee3 (Jan 31, 2006)

Has anyone thought about the psycholigical and addictive effects doping has on someone? Especially once they've tasted success? I read Gladiator by Dan Clark (He was Nitro on American Gladiators) and he spoke of 'roids as an addiction and a crutch. And even though he knew it was wrong he felt he "needed" it and that he'll just do it "one more time". But that one more time kept on being another time and so on. 

'Roids became so intertwined in his psyche that he felt he couldn't "compete" or make appearances without it. So I'd guess these guys feel the same way. They feel that they can't compete without it. (and in some cases that may be true...) So they use that as justification to take drugs. No drugs, no wins, no money, no livelihood. It's a viscous circle.

Has there been any studies of the psycholgical effects PED's have on cyclists? Although the problem might be getting subjects to admit to doping and opening up about it.


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## spade2you (May 12, 2009)

I can see how that might work perhaps more than the effects of the PEDs themselves.


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## baker921 (Jul 20, 2007)

Just an update http://velonews.competitor.com/2011...hospital-officials-widen-investigation_159906
Its not looking good for a silly young man.


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## thechriswebb (Nov 21, 2008)

I never liked the guy, then decided this year that I was going to give him a second chance. 

Another pro cyclist self-destructs....


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## jspharmd (May 24, 2006)

A couple of thoughts:

I agree with Gee3. A friend of mine died at 26 years of age from heart failure and kidney failure. 26. He had used/abused steroids since he was 16. Teen world record holder in squat at 815 lbs, when he was 18. I actually saw him go to the gym five days after stopping a steroid cycle. Someone joked with him that he had lost weight (he hadn't). He later told me that he went home that day and started another cycle. Seems pretty addictive. The world record elevated his desire to be huge.

For those saying that they should legalize PED and allow a physician to oversee the use of these drugs, what makes you think this will stop cheating?

If my M.D. pushes my HCT to 52, why not blood dope on top of that? Why not give myself a little extra PED, the M.D. won't notice or may just think they made a mistake, or that I responded differently than they thought I would. 

If everyone is on drugs, we are right back to where we are now...where we believe that we are on a level field. So if I can't cut it, I have to do something ELSE to improve.

Personally, I just accept my fate of being moderately competitive.


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