# Safety: Motorcycle vs. Bicycle



## Fallguy007

I have commuted and lived by bike for four years now. I've also ridden motorcycles in the past so I have experience living with both. My question stems from a discussion with my girlfriend after she freaked to the notion of me maybe getting a motorcycle again for longer rides across the state and such. She is of the opinion that they are way to dangerous, and I countered with the fact that safety wise I'm already running the same risk. 

What is your opinion on which posses the most risk: Riding on public roads by bike or motorcycle considering you keep the same mindset on safety while riding both?


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## MB1

Go faster, die harder.

I'm just sayin'.


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## Argentius

*Motos...*

I've ridden both, though not back to back, and it's all bikes now.

Being in a moto on a freeway full of cages is scarier than anything I do on a bike.

When you DO go down on a moto, it hurts a bunch more. But, you can wear protective gear that is thick enough to actually protect you without it being TOO uncomfortables.

Statistics on risk for bicycles COMMUTERS is hard to find -- bike crash stats usually just include "all cyclist," and that's the DUI bike going the wrong way in the dark as much as it is you.

Moto data is a little firmer, and it does appear that they are much more dangerous than cages, but THAT includes Joe Squid on his Hayabusa.


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## fasteddy07

I have done both, crashed both - Hard.

Never again on the moto. Never again. Lived through it, was able to walk away, lesson learned. 
I never kissed up to the AB (Guard) rail at 75 on my bicycle.


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## Kerry Irons

*Some numbers*



Fallguy007 said:


> I have commuted and lived by bike for four years now. I've also ridden motorcycles in the past so I have experience living with both. My question stems from a discussion with my girlfriend after she freaked to the notion of me maybe getting a motorcycle again for longer rides across the state and such. She is of the opinion that they are way to dangerous, and I countered with the fact that safety wise I'm already running the same risk.
> 
> What is your opinion on which posses the most risk: Riding on public roads by bike or motorcycle considering you keep the same mindset on safety while riding both?


The fatality rate for every million hours spent cycling is 0.26, compared to 0.47 per million driving hours (on-road motorcycling comes in at a whopping 8.80 deaths per million motorcycling hours). For every million cyclists in the US, 16.5 die each year, whereas for every million motorists, 19.9 die each year.


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## Tweezak

Riding a motorcycle is much more likely to result in serious injury or death. Reaction time at 25mph on a 25 lb bicycle is much more effective than the same reaction time on a 500 pound motorcycle traveling at 50 mph. Even if the motorcycle is traveling at bicycle speeds, it is harder to maneuver out of trouble than a bicycle. 

That said...I choose to live with the risk. I have a 99 Honda CBR600F4 sport bike which I love to ride. I've been riding street bikes for about 15 years and have had only one unplanned off-road excursion which luckily was very minor.


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## freethelemmings

MB1 said:


> Go faster, die harder.
> 
> I'm just sayin'.


+1......(had to meet a 5 character length requirement)


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## nonsleepingjon

I used to ride motos. I low sided my suzuki sv650 a few years ago and ended up on crutches for awhile (to put it mildly). I rode again after that, but ended up selling the bike eventually. I still hear the call of the wild and know that I would love to ride again.... but I think back to how easy it is to twist the throttle and get going way too fast way too quickly. 

I think we're better off working for our velocity.


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## singlecross

I've ridden motos for 20+ years as well as bicycling. Motos can have some positive benefits that carry over to cycling. Mainly a heightened sense of road and traffic awareness. The mindset of assuming that NO driver sees you and being decisive with your intentions and actions on a moto or bicycle in traffic cannot be understated. Whether I'm throwing a leg over my bicycle or my moto, I always adopt a "pay attention" attitude. Lets face it, any activity you put a helmet on for should cause you to pay attention. The nature of riding a bicycle or moto is a very active and engaging experience. Driving in a cage has become too comfortable and passive IMHO which leads to inattention and accidents. My .02

singlecross


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## ZoSoSwiM

I just got a motorcycle and I've been riding it most of the summer. I love it. I'm paranoid of other drives but thats a good thing. Safe cycling translates into safe motorcycling. Rule of thumb... don't let them hit you.

Either way we only live once.. enjoy life.


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## kykr13

nonsleepingjon said:


> I think we're better off working for our velocity.


Very nice. Good thought about wearing helmets too (ala singlecross).

I've never ridden a motorcycle but thought a lot about it over the years. Seems like every time I got the bug and started talking to people I know who ride, soon after I'd see a serious accident. I've decided to stop thinking about them...


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## buck-50

Motorcycles are great, but they are more dangerous.

Think of it this way- a canoe on a flat lake is pretty safe- you can still get hurt, you can fall out, you can get run over buy a boat, but generally, if you know what you're doing, your pretty safe.

That's riding a bike.

A kayak in class 4-5 water is a lot less safe- you can easily get hurt and even if you know what you are doing, making a mistake has far greater implications- get sucked into a hole, get pinned on a rock. Getting killed is still pretty rare, but there's a lot more chances for things to go sideways.

That's a motorcycle. 

At least, that's my experience.


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## lactic acidosis

The risk in riding both are roughly the same, but the consequences are multiplied on the motorcycle. I take nice easy rides all the time. I never ride the lines or take chances. There's just too many bad drivers in NJ.


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## Tweezak

singlecross said:


> any activity you put a helmet on for should cause you to pay attention.


Wise words.

Bravo!


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## t3chi3

I have ridden for many years and have had many motorcycles. I feel WAY less safe on a bicycle. You're on the right side of a lane and very vulnerable to what you can't see coming behind you. Plus many cars don't think you deserve any type of right of way.

My acceleration and ability to take an entire lane make motorcycling safer.


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## T-shirt

Vacationing on a motor cycle would be a lot of fun.

I gave mine up after 2 seasons because it took away too much time from bicycling.


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## t3chi3

T-shirt said:


> Vacationing on a motor cycle would be a lot of fun.
> 
> I gave mine up after 2 seasons because it took away too much time from bicycling.


That's funny. My poor motorcycles now just sit in the garage since I discovered road cycling.


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## mm9

Kerry Irons said:


> The fatality rate for every million hours spent cycling is 0.26, compared to 0.47 per million driving hours (on-road motorcycling comes in at a whopping 8.80 deaths per million motorcycling hours). For every million cyclists in the US, 16.5 die each year, whereas for every million motorists, 19.9 die each year.


The best reply answer in my opinion. Where did you get your facts?


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## lucer0

I would think that highways have a lot to do with the motorcycle fatalities - seems like they're more visible and safer on city streets than bicycles.


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## ZoSoSwiM

Reading a few motorcycle safety books I've found that statistically riding on major highways is actually safer than in small towns, and cities. 

On the "super slabs" you don't have parked cars, side streets, peds, cyclists, dogs, kids, toys, and many other things that can come in your way. Sure the speeds are higher if you do get in a wreck but the chances of that wreck are smaller.


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## pigpen

As soon as your not scared of a Moto you need to stop riding.
False security is the killer.


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## 52-16SS

lactic acidosis said:


> The risk in riding both are roughly the same, but the consequences are multiplied on the motorcycle....


I think you're mixing up the terms
Risk= probability x consequence


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## Art853

I think motorcycles are more dangerous. Higher speeds is higher impact during a collision. 

Yes, you can go with the flow of traffic more but you are often in the flow of traffic, on busy streets that I would never cycle on, as opposed to on smaller less traveled roads, bike blvds, or bike paths. On a bicycle you have vehicles passing on the left at higher speeds but on a mc you have vehicles on the left coming at you at high speeds since you are in the middle of the lane instead of the shoulder. MCs still have to deal with the left hooks and right crosses but the impact speeds are much higher. 

Mr. Irons's numbers numbers are interesting but without knowing what they represent I wonder how relevant they are. If you are just considering adults who are trying to ride safe you could eliminate all the child deaths on bicycles or the wrong way rider type people (which may be significant) and on the mc the young hotshots who speed. 

It seems about half of mc riders die from their own mistakes and with a bicycle that seems rare. A mc is very unforgiving of mistakes however. 

In the SF bay area I'm guessing there are probably about equal or greater number of bicycle than mc riders but the mc rider deaths are much more frequent judging by the notices posted on the internet forums of each respective site. Many of those happen on the crowded highways here during commuting (where there are no bicycle riders). 

Oil slicks, debris in the road, animals jumping out present more of a danger to mc riders. 

http://bicyclesafe.com/


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## moschika

from personal experience, i've had a significant number of crashes/injuries from riding my bicycles, then from riding a motorbike(vespa P-200 and triumph bonneville) over the last 17 years of doing both. if I add the years before I got the vespa, then I should probably not even be on a bicycle because of the injuries or crashes i had and their apparent "dangerousness".


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## Slim Again Soon

I've had a number of motorcycles. I loved riding those things.

Motorcycles and bicycles each have inherent risks. But with a motorcycle, when things go wrong, they go wrong in a big way.

I feel safer on a bicycle.


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## fast ferd

Slim Again said:


> I've had a number of motorcycles. I loved riding those things.
> 
> Motorcycles and bicycles each have inherent risks. But with a motorcycle, when things go wrong, they go wrong in a big way.
> 
> I feel safer on a bicycle.


Yep, what he said. Bicycle accidents are more frequent, by far. If the OP's GF equates that with the frequency in which a motorcycle goes down, her fears are unfounded. Just don't have an accident on your motorcycle. 

I still own and occasionally ride a sport bike. But I get more enjoyment out of bicycling. And it works my anaerobic threshhold better!


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## Jimbolaya

I had a moto for 13 years. Some years it was my only form of transportation.
When my daughter was born, I sold the moto and went pedal power.

The biggest difference to me is that I ride my bycycle on side streets, sometimes the sidewalk, bike lanes, and roads less traveled by cars. The moto was really in the thick of it by sharing the road with cars.


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## tarwheel2

Motorcycles are more dangerous due to the speeds. Also, you tend to ride more in traffic and busy roads on a moto. The only advantage to a moto is that you are probably less likely to be hit from behind, but I'm not even too sure about that. 

I rode a motorcycle all through high school and part of college, and I think it made me a much better driver and bicyclist. You learn to be very defensive and aware of traffic around you. However, I consider myself lucky to have survived my motorcycle years. I had one accident, but it was off-road riding trails and broke my collarbone.


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## ccroy2001

*I think it's what you get used to*

Hi,

I'm 45 and have ridden motorcycles since I was 14. Living in So Cal you can ride all ride so my longest lay off was maybe 6 weeks? I suppose if I added it up I have something like 300,000 + miles on motorcycles. Worst accident was solo, all my fault, lost the front wheel braking hard on sand at ~20mph. I ended up with outpatient knee surgery and coincedentally the accident (eventually) led me to cycling. I've been biking regularly; commuting, club rides, solo, shopping, a tiny bit of MTBing for about 8 years. Worst bicycle accident 2 broken fingers, a thumb, and road rash (ouch!).

Over the years like others have stated I've developed a 6th sense about drivers, it sounds weird or maybe even concieted, but I can tell by cues like head movements, vehicle speed, their eyes or expression whether or not they see me and if they are about to turn into my path or do something unpredictable. I could have developed the same skills biking but I did it motorcycling and so I "feel" safer motorcycling than biking.

I gear up always, the minimum is jacket, jeans, boots, gloves, full face helmet. Jeans will shred instantly when you hit the pavement so 75% or more of the time I wear a condura suit that is padded and goes on like coveralls over whatever clothes I'm wearing. It's vented and I can wear it pretty much year round. 

People have mentioned speed, I tend to use that to my advantage, to get out of trouble that on bicycle may be unavoidable, and as others have said the ability to take the whole lane without pissing everybody off is a safety + for motorcycles in my book.

Overall both sports are worth the risk for me, the observation skills translate from one to another, I'm amazed sometimes on a club ride what some others cyclists "miss" and then create their own close calls. Fortunately I've never wittnessed 1st hand a car vs. bike accident I hope I never do.

I sure fight over the time though, right now I'd rather spend 4 hours pedalling than motorcycling most Saturdays. I need to win the lotto so I can do both!


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## undies

Everyone perceives safety differently. I rode motorcycles for 18 years and even spent five years as a MSF instructor. I gave it up because I enjoy bicycling a lot more. 

In general I feel a lot less safe on my bicycle. The speed differential between cars and bikes really scares me. 

Yet... I don't hesitate to pedal down to the pub, have a few beers, and pedal home. I would *never* have done that on my motorcycle. Not rational, but I just don't perceive the same mortal danger on my bicycle.


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## BLUEMEANIE

I've laid both down (low side) and I've been hit by cars and hospitalized on both. That said you're simply going faster on a motorcycle therefore any impact is going to be greater.


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## messyparrot

I take my SS MTB to work 1/2 the time and my BMW the other half (till winter hits).

If I had to give up one, I would say it would be the m-cycle.
I laid down my BMW recently I got my side bag caught on my bike rack.:cryin: 

Messed up my brake pedal on the m-cyle and broke off one of my Saris clips on the bike rack...so I did a 2 fer thank goodness the bicycle wasn't on it.

I was trying to squeeze in the garage. Bad idea.


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## shimano4

I feel safer in Bicycle becos of speed issue. Motorbike is dangerous especially in wet condition when u used to dry condition in braking and stoppage. It will takes a few times to wake yrself up of more braking distance.

Regarding, vehicle coming from rear. If motorbike need side mirror I don't know why bicycle needs to be exclude from the rules too if on road? For commuting , I always have a side mirror on my bicycle. I have no problem of high speed coming from behind as I have my anticipation and evasion.


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## tmotz

Both can be dangerous even if your being careful. I've been hospitalized from both, bicycle crash required more medical care. I've always tell new motorcycist if you have to think about it ,its too late.


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## wipeout

Fallguy007 said:


> What is your opinion on which posses the most risk: Riding on public roads by bike or motorcycle considering you keep the same mindset on safety while riding both?


I ride both and I ride like I'm invisible to all the cagers - so yes, same mindset.


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## lampshade

52-16SS said:


> I think you're mixing up the terms
> Risk= probability x consequence


Actually, Risk = Vulnerability x Probability of Vulnerability Being Exploited


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## MTT

Kerry Irons said:


> The fatality rate for every million hours spent cycling is 0.26, compared to 0.47 per million driving hours (on-road motorcycling comes in at a whopping 8.80 deaths per million motorcycling hours). For every million cyclists in the US, 16.5 die each year, whereas for every million motorists, 19.9 die each year.


Very cool Kerry- I take comfort in numbers/ stats like this; especially because a woman that works in my lab just got out of the ICU after she was forced off the road on her bicycle, and I have been very spooked since her accident. 

I would say, if you ride a bike or motor bike, the route is key! If you are riding on roads that people are used to seeing bikes- they might actually see you (and the data backs me up on this).............MTT:thumbsup:


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## rray

I've been doing both for 40 years. If you take the activity seriously,...study, practice, don't use drugs or drink and ride in places most friendly to two wheels, you'll be way ahead of the statistics. I wouldn't think of giving up either nor measuring one against the other.

Life is risk. No one gets out of here alive.


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## hepcatbent

I'm a little late to the party here, but here's some advice from an_ old _rider.

When I was a kid, I got my first 10 speed bike in 1968 and rode it hard until I got my first motorcycle in 1971, sold the bike and didn't have another for years. I rode motorcycles for over twenty-five years and probably rode well over 250k miles on them. I put 60k miles on my '82 BMW R100RT alone in three years from '83-86. I collaborated a little for Rider Magazine (a sport-touring publication) out of Agoura, CA back then, and got to know the editor and some of the other writers. They rode motorcycles for a living, and bicycles for fun. I wondered about their sanity... after all, _nothing_ was better than a motorcycle... _right_? I had my fair share of crashes and walked away from them all. In 1995, at age 40, I had a run-in in NoCal with a couple of deer. I missed the first one completely, but caught the tail of the second with my right knee at speed... I wobbled a little, but didn't go down... 

After some consideration, I realized that I probably didn't heal as fast at 40 as I did at 20, and some of the joy of riding motorcycles was gone for me. I ended up selling my last motorcycle in '96.

A couple of years ago, after figuring out I was incredibly out of shape and hating it, I re-discoverd bicycles... and have been having a ball again. I am having as much or more fun than I had with my first 10 speed way back when, and now I understand what the guys at Rider Magazine were telling me back in the mid-'80s about why they rode bicycles for fun. 

I am currently most likely the oldest_ living _certified bicycle cop in Iowa. I took the bike officer's course earlier this year, and I couldn't believe how much I didn't know about riding a bike, even after riding for over 40 years.

If you live long enough, I guess life always comes full circle.

So... my advice: If you choose to ride a motorcycle... make sure that you take a Motorcycle Safety Foundation riding course. No matter what your current riding skill set, you'll learn something new that may save your life on a motorcycle (or bicycle, for that matter.)


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## Mitchxout

t3chi3 said:


> I have ridden for many years and have had many motorcycles. I feel WAY less safe on a bicycle. You're on the right side of a lane and very vulnerable to what you can't see coming behind you. Plus many cars don't think you deserve any type of right of way.
> 
> My acceleration and ability to take an entire lane make motorcycling safer.


+1
This is how I feel although I'm peddling more than motorcycling lately.


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## WMBigs

I was in my mid twenties when I sold my first motorcycle. I rode with some friends and we went fast all the time. I was afraid I'd end up in a wheel chair or dead. I knew 7 people that all died the same way, crossing the center line in the twisties and hitting a car head on. I really got into cycling at that time and have not known any one to die or be severely injured on a bicycle. I did get another motor bike, but had gained a little self control as well. Really enjoying cycling now, but wouldn't mind an SV650 for tooling around one when not on my bicycle.


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## hepcatbent

Folks are killed on bicycles regularly, but pedestrians are killed by vehicles as well. They are typically hit by another vehicle. Bicyclists are seldom killed when they crash by themselves; not so motorcycles. The speed involved in single-vehicle crashes is the primary difference in single vehicle crash survivability in comparing the risk between the two. You don't see many bicycles lane-splitting on the freeway in traffic at speed.

A friend of my mine on her new roadie was recently hit by a 22 year old woman driving at 55 mph while texting. Luck was riding with my friend, though, as her injuries were minor, and her brand new road bike was had little damage. Her impact with the ground did split her helmet tho. It did exactly what it was designed to do for her.


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## BennyBoy

Fallguy007 said:


> I have commuted and lived by bike for four years now. I've also ridden motorcycles in the past so I have experience living with both. My question stems from a discussion with my girlfriend after she freaked to the notion of me maybe getting a motorcycle again for longer rides across the state and such. She is of the opinion that they are way to dangerous, and I countered with the fact that safety wise I'm already running the same risk.
> 
> What is your opinion on which posses the most risk: Riding on public roads by bike or motorcycle considering you keep the same mindset on safety while riding both?



I was a bike messenger for over 12 years. I also did motorcycle messengering for a few years. I've been hit on my bicycle and gone down hard too many times to remember. I never used a helmet and never got any bad injuries. I've gone down on my motorcycle 6 times in the last 20 years, I always wear full protection(from head to toe) and I've been in the hospital 4 out of the 6 wrecks, broken over 30 bones(including the knees 3 times). I've become use to sharp pains waking me up every night. And I'm told I'm a very good rider(also raced AMA for three years, with no injuries)

Good Luck with your motorcycle.:mad2:


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## fawill

*selling my scooter...*

had a buyer come out and lowball me yesterday. The point has come where I had gotten it out of my system. For the final time, I turned it over. I had become familiar with being on the scooter; but also a point where I no longer felt safe. I truly enjoyed commuting, and sharing that with my teen son. Many times we'd ride together-him to school and to summer camp, me to work. But an opportunity came up where I could ride my bike home from work; and also enjoy the ride in the auto in the mornings with my wife. Any time spent with the Mrs. is a good thing. Going down to firing up one vehicle seemed like the way to go.

Also, I am on the prowl for a new bike and really couldn't justify the bill or keeping up with the scooter as well. I am inspired by those who commute by bike entirely and that seems to be a reasonable goal. There will be days that the weather will be uncooperative but that is no differerent than from anyone else who commutes by bike.

Soon after I got the scooter I became aware of my visibility to others. I soon purchased a highly reflective vest and wore that always. But lately I could no longer avoid my inner thoughts about other people's distractions: specifically with cell phone use and texting. I truly felt like I could not recover from someone else's one moment of not paying attention.

So I am at another path in the journey of life and I think each person has their own perspective in relation to the motorcycle. Quite simply for me it comes down to just simply riding my bike makes me happy. I'll go with that.


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## naitsirk47

I strongly believe riding a motorbike in a 30mph zone is safer than riding on a pushbike in a 30mph zone. Definitely with a loud exhaust anyway as everybody can hear you coming and not only that, a motorbike is somewhat bigger and more visible and you keep up with the flow of traffic too so you haven't got the rest of the traffic constantly over taking you giving some the opportunity to get stupidly close and fast while over taking. Another thing is I find all the hard work of peddling effects your concentration taking your eye's and mind off the road more despite it being good exercise for you. When I'm on the motorbike my mind and full focus is on the road much more than when I'm on pushbike as the rest of my body is relaxed. I've had many more incidents and accidents on my road bike than I have riding my MT09 Tracer motorcycle in the same amount of time.


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## Kerry Irons

naitsirk47 said:


> I strongly believe riding a motorbike in a 30mph zone is safer than riding on a pushbike in a 30mph zone. Definitely with a loud exhaust anyway as everybody can hear you coming and not only that, a motorbike is somewhat bigger and more visible and you keep up with the flow of traffic too so you haven't got the rest of the traffic constantly over taking you giving some the opportunity to get stupidly close and fast while over taking. Another thing is I find all the hard work of peddling effects your concentration taking your eye's and mind off the road more despite it being good exercise for you. When I'm on the motorbike my mind and full focus is on the road much more than when I'm on pushbike as the rest of my body is relaxed. I've had many more incidents and accidents on my road bike than I have riding my MT09 Tracer motorcycle in the same amount of time.


Nice thread dredge. .Almost 12 years to the day since the last comment before yours. Loud motorcycles are only loud going away. From behind they creep up just like a car. And despite your beliefs, the actual data say that motorcycles are 8 times more dangerous than bicycles on a per-hour basis. This according to the US NHTSA | National Highway Traffic Safety Administration.


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## WaynefromOrlando

I rode motorcycles from age 18 and I saw the dangers of riding go up until at age 50 I sold my last motorcycle, despite swearing that I would die with a motorcycle key in my pocket. The reality is that cell phones have made it too dangerous, I daily see at least one or two drivers leave their lanes, go off the road, or fail to stop/start at an intersection because their conversation, voiced or texted, is more important than managing the 2-3 thousand pounds of metal, glass and human they are in control of.


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## Souke-Cycling

I've ridden both.Usually depends on the destination and time, if it is a very urgent situation, get a motorcycle, instead it is safer to ride a bicycle.


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