# Downtube vs. STI shifters



## lopresti (Jun 18, 2010)

OK, I got back into road biking after a 25 year layoff. I picked up a really nice old Cannondale SR500 with an STI upgrade that works well for me. The existing shifters are definitely on the way out and the bike has a 7-gear cassette, so replacing the existing shifters will be a challenge.

My question is, are downtube shifters a drag to operate? I love the ease by which my STI shifters work and of course, their location to where my hands spend most of their time. But I'm thinking about retro-ing this bike back to its original setup (downtube shifters) and wondering what the difference is going to be as to what I've gotten used to riding the last 4 or so months.


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## Mike T. (Feb 3, 2004)

I'm sure those who never grew up with DT shifters would be aghast at the thought of them - just like those who never grew up with toeclips & straps. It wouldn't bother me to go back to either one. In fact the advancement of years has negated any dubious slight gain from modern technology. I'm thousands poorer and 3mph slower than I used to be. All the tech stuff in the world can't make up for that. Occasionally, when I'm zoned out, I find myself reaching for a non-existent DT shifter. It's 8 years since I last used one.


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## tk1971 (Aug 31, 2010)

Going back to DT would cost very little to do. To give you an example, I just got an FD, RD, and friction shifters off of someone who just upgraded to a modern drive train for $25. And I'm pretty sure I overspent too.

Basically, there's nothing stopping you from trying it out (least of all cost).

tk


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## lopresti (Jun 18, 2010)

Mike T. said:


> I'm sure those who never grew up with DT shifters would be aghast at the thought of them - just like those who never grew up with toeclips & straps. It wouldn't bother me to go back to either one. In fact the advancement of years has negated any dubious slight gain from modern technology. I'm thousands poorer and 3mph slower than I used to be. All the tech stuff in the world can't make up for that. Occasionally, when I'm zoned out, I find myself reaching for a non-existent DT shifter. It's 8 years since I last used one.



Yeah, at 59 I don't see myself breaking any records either, but I definitely got the cycling bug and want to keep riding this old Cannondale as long as I can. Like I said, the existing STI shifters skip on occasion and have been getting worse over the last few months. I ride just about daily, but don't want to plunk down a month's retirement income on a fancy new bike that is probably not going to give me any better riding satisfaction than I'm experiencing now. Would you recomment going to a DT setup once these RSX shifters wear out?


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## lopresti (Jun 18, 2010)

Great advice....think I'll give it a try.


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## Mike T. (Feb 3, 2004)

lopresti said:


> Yeah, at 59


Oh you're a young 'un!!  I was that age once.



> Would you recomment going to a DT setup once these RSX shifters wear out?


What have you got to lose? I think I could rustle up a nice pair of 7-spd DuraAce d/t shifters if you need some.


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## wim (Feb 28, 2005)

*Some thoughts.*

The obvious difference is that you need to remove one hand from the bar to shift. But since you also need to do that to drink, eat or scratch your azz, it's not a problem. The not-so-obvious difference is that you can't shift while hammering out-of-the-saddle on an uphill—you have to sit down to shift, then get back up. To some that matters, to others, it doesn't. You'll notice that you'll shift much less than you would with STI, which some people think is good ("toughens you up"), others think is not so good ("not using your gears to best advantage').

I grew up with friction downtube shifters, bought into indexed downtube shifters, then STI and Ergo. Now at 67 and no longer road racing, I'm back on friction downtube shifters and will be until I hang my bikes up for good. The simplicity (and total control with _friction_ shifting) is very satisfying to me.


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## bahueh (May 11, 2004)

I know a Cat. 2 roadie who uses them on an old steele frame...not a problem. 

only a drag if you think/believe they're a drag.


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## lopresti (Jun 18, 2010)

Mike T. said:


> Oh you're a young 'un!!  I was that age once.
> 
> 
> What have you got to lose? *I think I could rustle up a nice pair of 7-spd DuraAce d/t shifters if you need some*.



Yeah...sounds good. The RD on this bike is an old DuraAce setup and the FD is Ultegra, so your DT shifters would probably be the ticket. Got a price in mind? How do I get in touch with you to do deal?


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## wim (Feb 28, 2005)

lopresti said:


> the FD is Ultegra


FD doesn't matter, front downtube shifting is friction. That's the beauty of it: control of large-to-small ring shift speed, never any chain rubbing because you've got an infinite number of trim positions, no screwing with "cable tension" to make the FD work properly.  

It occurs to me you might be in luck here, but in the _index _mode, 7-speed Dura-Ace rear derailleurs will only work properly with 7-speed Dura-ace shifters, so you have to have a Dura-Ace model number match if you want indexing. The Dura-Ace 7-speed model number is 7401. Again, in the _friction_ mode (can be selected on those shifters), it doesn't matter. Anything will work.

/w


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## Mike T. (Feb 3, 2004)

lopresti said:


> Yeah...sounds good. The RD on this bike is an old DuraAce setup and the FD is Ultegra, so your DT shifters would probably be the ticket. Got a price in mind? How do I get in touch with you to do deal?


Lemme dig around to see what I can find. I haven't seen them in years and I'm not too sure where to look. Maybe $10 would do it.


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## lopresti (Jun 18, 2010)

Sounds good...hope ya find them...give me a call if you do. 443-929-0270, and let me know where to send the cash. Again, thanks.


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## Mike T. (Feb 3, 2004)

lopresti said:


> Sounds good...hope ya find them...give me a call if you do. 443-929-0270, and let me know where to send the cash. Again, thanks.


Lemme take a good look around tomorrow.


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## PJ352 (Dec 5, 2007)

For the record, I'm in agreement with those offering that going back to DT shifters is a perfectly viable option, but as an alternative, you might try flushing your STI's with Triflow (or similar). Over the years there could just be an accumulation of grit/ grime that's clogging up the works. It'll only cost you the price of the lube, and might just buy you some more time.


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## lopresti (Jun 18, 2010)

I'll give it a try...thanks for the feedback.


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## ericm979 (Jun 26, 2005)

Try replacing the cables first. The shifting gets unpredictable when the cable frays inside the shifter. If that doesn't work, replace the housing.

I rode a lot with downtube shifters back in the day. Even though I still sometimes reach for them out of habit, I would not go back. But I don't have much interest in retro.


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## AndrwSwitch (May 28, 2009)

I have downtube shifters on my commuter. They're indexed, which I think is the best of both worlds. I always had trouble with my right friction shifter, so the indexing helps, but it can be turned off.

For me, it's not retro, it's less expensive.

Spend some time on Sheldon Brown's site if you want the indexing feature. There may be a hack you can do to use a more easily sourced indexed shifter on a 7-speed cassette.

+1 to the try to flush your shifters suggestion first, though. WD-40 may have its only application on a bike in that task.


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## terbennett (Apr 1, 2006)

AndrwSwitch said:


> I have downtube shifters on my commuter. They're indexed, which I think is the best of both worlds. I always had trouble with my right friction shifter, so the indexing helps, but it can be turned off.
> 
> For me, it's not retro, it's less expensive.
> 
> ...


+1 on all of this. Downtube index shifters would be the best of both worlds and they did make tons of them in 7 speed configuration. In fact, what you will notice immediately if you convert to down tube shifters is that your front end will be lighter due to the fact that STI shifters add quite a bit of weight to your bike. I'm a fan of downtube and STI shifters (eventhough I only have STI-equipped bikes at this time), but STIs add noticeable weight to your handle bars. To prove this, if you do a search on the lightest road bikes, you'll notice that the once you get under 10 lbs, downtube shifters start to dominate. Sure there are bikes in the 9 lb arena with Ergos or STIs, but fall below that and you'll only see downtube shifters. Sub 8 lb. exotic bikes are all downtube shifters.


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## Mike T. (Feb 3, 2004)

Mike T. said:


> Lemme take a good look around tomorrow.


I found 'em. That was easy. They were all packed away in a plastic bag - dirt & all. I'll tell ya what, PM me your name and address and I'll ship 'em off to you. Donate $10 to a local animal shelter or buy the wild birds a bag of seed this winter and we're quits. How's that for a deal?

The levers are SL7401. There's an extra toothed washer in the bag and I'm not sure if it belongs or not. I can't find a place for it. Maybe you can find a blow-up diagram on the net to see if that washer belongs or not.

http://velobase.com/ViewComponent.aspx?ID=40e79148-190e-440a-8cab-4bbb67c4ecad&Enum=104


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## frpax (Feb 13, 2010)

I still ride both, regularly.
For the semi competitive events (I no longer race), I use the brifters.


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## lopresti (Jun 18, 2010)

Lots of good advice, thanks. Mike T. came up with a pair of levers I'll install when the STI shifters finally die. I'll try cleaning them first, but I'm thinking I want to retro this bike. My riding is purely leisure/exercise, no competition whatsoever, so the DT setup should work out well for me. Again, thanks for all the good direction.


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## Mike T. (Feb 3, 2004)

lopresti said:


> Lots of good advice, thanks. Mike T. came up with a pair of levers I'll install when the STI shifters finally die. I'll try cleaning them first, but I'm thinking I want to retro this bike. My riding is purely leisure/exercise, no competition whatsoever, so the DT setup should work out well for me. Again, thanks for all the good direction.


I stuffed the right hand STI shifter into some sand on my cyclocross bike and it would not work at all. I thought I'd wrecked it. On arriving home I saw all kinds of crap inside and I flushed it out the best I could with WD-40 and it started working fine and has for maybe two years since.


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## PJ352 (Dec 5, 2007)

Mike T. said:


> *Donate $10 to a local animal shelter or buy the wild birds a bag of seed this winter and we're quits. *


You just got my favorite person of the day award. _Very_ cool. :thumbsup:


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## BeepBeepZipTang (Oct 8, 2009)

I statrted riding on the SR600 ,friction gear and all.Gud bike, since then Ive purchased something lighter and its like night and day for the ride. I still enjoy riding the old cannondale and funny thing ,I dont change gears as often as the sti on the newer bike.:thumbsup: 
Good luck and enjoy the ride


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## MerlinAma (Oct 11, 2005)

Got first geared bike in 1974, friction shift obviously. Same with next bike in 1987. Eventually went indexed shifting and of course now it is 2010 Dura Ace. No - not electric!
But I'm never going back to 9 speed, much less friction downtube shifters.
Just like I'm not going back to 8 track tapes or VHS. What's the point? 

The good old days really weren't that good.


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## mcsqueak (Apr 22, 2010)

Mike T. said:


> I'm sure those who never grew up with DT shifters would be aghast at the thought of them - just like those who never grew up with toeclips & straps.


Ha! I'll raise my hand to that.

I tried some downtube shifters on an old bike a few years back and I just didn't like the feel of them. I have friction shifters up by the stem on my old Schwinn that I do like just fine, but my modern brake-lever index shifters are by far my favorite.

I'm still in my 3rd decade on this rock, so I haven't been around all that long, all things considered.


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## Mike T. (Feb 3, 2004)

mcsqueak said:


> I'm still in my 3rd decade on this rock, so I haven't been around all that long, all things considered.


I've got *tires* older than you.


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## mcsqueak (Apr 22, 2010)

Mike T. said:


> I've got *tires* older than you.


Those hand-carved stone ones, right?  Kidding!


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## Mike T. (Feb 3, 2004)

mcsqueak said:


> Those hand-carved stone ones, right?  Kidding!


They'd probably feel like it 'coz they'd be so old & brittle. Sump'n like me.


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## wim (Feb 28, 2005)

MerlinAma said:


> But I'm never going back to 9 speed, much less friction downtube shifters. Just like I'm not going back to 8 track tapes or VHS. What's the point?


For some people, one of the points of going back to the bad old stuff is to introduce a bit of difficulty into their life, then feel good about mastering it. If you avoid doing that at all costs, then what's the point of riding a bicycle if you own a car? Just saying.

Of course, you can't lose sight of purpose. If I would start to race again, I'd rip my friction shifters off the bike immediately if not sooner and install a 10-speed Dura-Ace group sent to me by overnight shipping.


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## lopresti (Jun 18, 2010)

I'm thinking that not all that long ago DT shifting was state-of-the-art. People road fast, climbed hills, did everything bikers do today. I did pick up a Cannondale R500 with original equipment today, except the guy I bought it from replaced the worn-out DT shifters with really nice, shiney, tight ones. He had 7 other bikes in his living room and all but one had DT shifters, and he was a young guy. He said it was a matter of economics. The DT shifters are cheaper to replace when something happens, easier to adjust and keep tuned. Just his take. I think I'll install the shifters Mike T. is sending me onto my other Cannondale and think of simpler times.


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## PJ352 (Dec 5, 2007)

lopresti said:


> *I'm thinking that not all that long ago DT shifting was state-of-the-art. People road fast, climbed hills, did everything bikers do today.* I did pick up a Cannondale R500 with original equipment today, except the guy I bought it from replaced the worn-out DT shifters with really nice, shiney, tight ones. He had 7 other bikes in his living room and all but one had DT shifters, and he was a young guy. He said it was a matter of economics. The DT shifters are cheaper to replace when something happens, easier to adjust and keep tuned. Just his take. I think I'll install the shifters Mike T. is sending me onto my other Cannondale and think of simpler times.


Yup, and don't forget... _*raced*_.
View attachment 212662


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## Mike T. (Feb 3, 2004)

lopresti said:


> I'll install the shifters Mike T. is sending.


They're on their way!


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## lopresti (Jun 18, 2010)

Great...I'm moved by your generosity. I'll be sure to return the favor to my backyard birds as per your earlier suggestion. Not only heavy sunflower-laden seed, but suet, and only the best!


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## Mike T. (Feb 3, 2004)

lopresti said:


> Great...I'm moved by your generosity. I'll be sure to return the favor to my backyard birds as per your earlier suggestion. Not only heavy sunflower-laden seed, but suet, and only the best!


We're going "nuts" (pun certainly intended) keeping our BlueJays topped up on peanuts. Their antics are hilarious. "Deep Throat" can hold two in his crop and one in his beak - full sized peanuts in the shell. When the feeder is empty (about 5x daily) they can see the peanut container inside the window and they bash themselves on the glass trying to get to it.


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