# Would You Go Into A Shop .....



## Samadhi (Nov 1, 2011)

..... with THIS on the back wall?

View attachment 280381


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## Local Hero (Jul 8, 2010)

No!

I'd burn the shop down!


KILL KILL KILL ARMSTRONG AND ALL WHO HAVE POSTERS OF HIM MUST DIE.


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## Local Hero (Jul 8, 2010)

Just kidding. 



Actually, the trek dealer near my house has an Armstrong poster up. I don't ride a trek. I don't get much work done on my bikes there because it's a little out of the way. But if I needed someone to build a bike I'd take it to him. He's a damn good mechanic even with the poster.


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## Slartibartfast (Jul 22, 2007)

Heck yes! I have no hate for him at all. For an American, he's the most inspiring cyclist since the early 90s. He's the reason I became re-energized about cycling and have my current fitness level. He's the reason I'm as interested in the sport as I am. I can say the same for almost every serious rider I know -- they all loved him. They may have mixed feelings or entirely negative feelings about him now, but they owe him their fitness. Most still have predominantly POSITIVE feelings about Armstrong.

He cheated and got caught, like dozens of others -- and like dozens of current riders eventually will. Professional sports present ethical dilemmas that cause many athletes to make poor decisions. I see no difference among Pantani, Ullrich, and Armstrong -- except that the first two are likeable. And it's pretty easy to argue that the decisions weren't even poor, depending on a person's goals. We wouldn't even be discussing Lance if he hadn't done the same things the rest of the professional sports world routinely does.

Lance was a bully -- just like lots of successful people. I worked with bullies my entire career. They don't scare me; I don't fear them and I don't hate them. 

So yes, I would gladly patronize a bike shop with a giant poster of Lance on the wall. At least they're being honest about the reason for the shop's existence.


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## spookyload (Jan 30, 2004)

Really? You question the morals of a shop with Armstrong on the wall and have a Pantani homage in your signature. Isn't that sort of hypocritical. What killed Marco? In case you forgot....


> Although he never tested positive, his career was beset by doping allegations. In the 1999 Giro d'Italia, he was expelled due to his irregular blood values. Although he was disqualified for "health reasons", it was implied that Pantani's high haematocrit was the product of EPO use. Following later accusations, Pantani went into a depression from which he never fully recovered. He died of acute cocaine poisoning in 2004.


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## Bluenote (Oct 28, 2012)

Oh look. It's been a few weeks. Time for another Armstrong thread. 

The mans been banned. He's sorting out financial implications in the Court System. Can we just drop it already?

A more fair question would be 'Pro cycling is dirty as hell. How do you feel about a shop / magazine / blog that is part if the Pro Sport scene?'


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## MG537 (Jul 25, 2006)

I always did business with the local Trek dealer in my area because they had the best service around here. Their mechanics are top notch. 
I don't take my R3 to the local Cervelo dealer because I don't get the same quality service that I do from the other dealer I mentioned above. The Cervelo dealer actually tried to get me to switch my groupset from Campy to either SRAM or Shimano. I guess he couldn't sell me stuff. Since then I turned my back on him.
Back to my Trek dealer, I believe he took down the Lance posters but I'd have check that, since I always ignored them. Never liked him even before the "reasoned decision". Like I said, quality of service is way more important than some misplaced belief in a sports icon.


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## Samadhi (Nov 1, 2011)

spookyload said:


> Really? You question the morals of a shop with Armstrong on the wall and have a Pantani homage in your signature. Isn't that sort of hypocritical. What killed Marco? In case you forgot....


Spooky, 

I question no one's morals. Even those with no morals.

This is kind of my answer to that thread, "Would You Ride With a Celebrity Doper?"

Actually, I love the shop this poster/wall hangs in.


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## tlg (May 11, 2011)

Give the guy a break. If I had one testicle, I'd dope too.


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## jlandry (Jan 12, 2007)

I don't know what problem you have withthat wall. The bench is clean and the tools are pristinely placed.


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## Staylucky (May 2, 2013)

Poster or no poster, that wrenching area looks fantastic. If they treated my bike like they treat their tools and work area, they'd have all my future business.


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## spade2you (May 12, 2009)

My shop is anti-Trek. No posters of Armstrong whatsoever, although there are posters from the 80's all over the place, including one of Hampsten. As for dopers, there's a big pic of Jan and Giant bikes.


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## nhluhr (Sep 9, 2010)

Staylucky said:


> Poster or no poster, that wrenching area looks fantastic.


Just right for wrenching on that awesome girl's bike with basket and streamers.


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## jspharmd (May 24, 2006)

Slartibartfast said:


> Heck yes! I have no hate for him at all. For an American, he's the most inspiring cyclist since the early 90s. He's the reason I became re-energized about cycling and have my current fitness level. He's the reason I'm as interested in the sport as I am. I can say the same for almost every serious rider I know -- they all loved him. They may have mixed feelings or entirely negative feelings about him now, but they owe him their fitness. Most still have predominantly POSITIVE feelings about Armstrong.
> 
> He cheated and got caught, like dozens of others -- and like dozens of current riders eventually will. Professional sports present ethical dilemmas that cause many athletes to make poor decisions. I see no difference among Pantani, Ullrich, and Armstrong -- except that the first two are likeable. And it's pretty easy to argue that the decisions weren't even poor, depending on a person's goals. We wouldn't even be discussing Lance if he hadn't done the same things the rest of the professional sports world routinely does.
> 
> ...


This has to be one of the best posts about Armstrong that I've read. While, i wasn't as inspired by his performances (meaning I didn't get into cycling because of Lance), he certainly raised cycling awareness and popularity.


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## Doctor Falsetti (Sep 24, 2010)

Slartibartfast said:


> He's the reason I became re-energized about cycling and have my current fitness level. He's the reason I'm as interested in the sport as I am. I can say the same for almost every serious rider I know -- they all loved him.


Interesting

You would be surprised but there are a lot of us who ride because we love it not because we were inspired by a cheating bully


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## Slartibartfast (Jul 22, 2007)

Doctor Falsetti said:


> Interesting
> 
> You would be surprised but there are a lot of us ride because we love it not because we were inspired by a cheating bully


Why would I be surprised? Different people do things for different reasons. Riding because you love it is a great reason. I love it too. I let myself languish for several years while I raised a child, but when Lance won a couple tours it heightened my interest again. Nothing wrong with that as far as I'm concerned. If it bothers you, I simply don't care. Couldn't care less, in fact.


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## Doctor Falsetti (Sep 24, 2010)

Slartibartfast said:


> Why would I be surprised? Different people do things for different reasons. Riding because you love it is a great reason. I love it too. I let myself languish for several years while I raised a child, but when Lance won a couple tours it heightened my interest again. Nothing wrong with that as far as I'm concerned. If it bothers you, I simply don't care. Couldn't care less, in fact.


Nope, it does not bother me that you and your circle of friends admire him....just don't be surprised that the vast majority of people do not share your admiration.


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## Samadhi (Nov 1, 2011)

Slartibartfast said:


> Why would I be surprised? Different people do things for different reasons. Riding because you love it is a great reason. I love it too. I let myself languish for several years while I raised a child, but when Lance won a couple tours it heightened my interest again. Nothing wrong with that as far as I'm concerned. If it bothers you, I simply don't care. Couldn't care less, in fact.


That's the spirit.

For myself, I've been around a lot of different forms of racing in my life - as official, participant and fan - to know beyond any shadow of doubt that the real winners are often cheats and bullies or perilously close to that. I don't have to be disappointed, disillusioned, righteously indignant, or morally outraged (I'll save those things for what truly matters), I can enjoy racing for what it its - a contest, and riding for what it is - healthy and fun and reap the benefits of seeing the world as devoid of absolutes.

I can go into this shop, stand in awe of the sheer enormity of the image before me, and chuckle with the mechanics over those who take the whole Lance Armstrong thing WAY too seriously.


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## Samadhi (Nov 1, 2011)

Staylucky said:


> Poster or no poster, that wrenching area looks fantastic. If they treated my bike like they treat their tools and work area, they'd have all my future business.



Yeah, those guys keep a nice, tidy shop. They do good work too.


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## bayAreaDude (Apr 13, 2012)

The bullying had significant negative consequences for the victims. If a shop chooses to identify themselves with that kind of behavior I'd choose a different shop to support.


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## Slartibartfast (Jul 22, 2007)

Doctor Falsetti said:


> Nope, it does not bother me that you and your circle of friends admire him....just don't be surprised that the vast majority of people do not share your admiration.


Again, I wouldn't be surprised, and it doesn't matter anyway. Dr. F, I doubt the vast majority of people care about Lance one way or the other. It's mostly just the people on the roadbikereview doping forum that have a vocal opinion. And to be clear, I don't really admire Armstrong. I just credit him with piquing my interest in cycling again, after I had become too casual. I certainly don't harbor ill will towards him -- what a waste of life-force! To be honest, though, EVERY non-cyclist I've talked with about Lance post-Oprah has been strongly in his corner. I mean grandmas, fishing-tackle salesmen, my brother-in-law, my ex-boss.

I was riding with an Austinite at a charity ride in April, and asked him what the general opinion of Lance was, back in Austin. His initial reaction was what registered the most strongly with me: a bit of a shrug, as if to say "Lance? Who the eff cares -- that's ancient history." Then what he actually said was "I think most of us know the whole peloton was juiced. So we give him the benefit of the doubt."


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## Slartibartfast (Jul 22, 2007)

Samadhi said:


> Yeah, those guys keep a nice, tidy shop. They do good work too.


Where is the shop? What city?


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## PaxRomana (Jan 16, 2012)

Bluenote said:


> Oh look. It's been a few weeks. Time for another Armstrong thread.
> 
> The mans been banned. He's sorting out financial implications in the Court System. Can we just drop it already?
> 
> A more fair question would be 'Pro cycling is dirty as hell. How do you feel about a shop / magazine / blog that is part if the Pro Sport scene?'


What a bunch of nonsense. Sure, pro cycling is dirty. Armstrong was the dirtiest SOB around. He hasn't come close to receiving the negative publicity he deserves.


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## SwiftSolo (Jun 7, 2008)

I'm always pleased when I get to hear the voice of the "vast majority". Is it safe to assume that Falsetti means multiple Falsettous?



Doctor Falsetti said:


> Nope, it does not bother me that you and your circle of friends admire him....just don't be surprised that the vast majority of people do not share your admiration.


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## Local Hero (Jul 8, 2010)

Doctor Falsetti said:


> Nope, it does not bother me that you and your circle of friends admire him....just don't be surprised that the vast majority of people do not share your admiration.


It's true. The vast majority of people do not care about Lance Armstrong. He's a retired athlete in a fringe sport. The vast majority of people don't even care about Jose Conseco or other juiced-up stars in American's pastime.

But you should not talk down to people who got into cycling because of Armstrong. He's not the US #1 Enemy. Sure he's a disgraced a-hole. But do not be blinded by your hatred. He did a lot for the sport in the US.


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## Local Hero (Jul 8, 2010)

PaxRomana said:


> What a bunch of nonsense. Sure, pro cycling is dirty. Armstrong was the dirtiest SOB around. He hasn't come close to receiving the negative publicity he deserves.


I agree that the guy should be dealt his just desserts. But how much negative Armstrong publicity does cycling deserve?


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## SFTifoso (Aug 17, 2011)

If they do good work at a reasonable price, yeah. Why not?


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## spade2you (May 12, 2009)

Local Hero said:


> I agree that the guy should be dealt his just desserts. But how much negative Armstrong publicity does cycling deserve?


...and why? I get that Dr. Falsetti is either friends or family of someone involved. The rest of us, not so much. Then again, RBR has been a little more angry than usual as of lately. Perhaps people aren't riding their bike as much as they'd like. 

So, if a shop doesn't have a pic of LeMond or Hampsten in their shop, isn't it a safe bet that there's a good chance that the pro on the bike brand they sell might be a doper? Another shop of mine has some posters of Gerolsteiner on Specialized bikes.


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## jspharmd (May 24, 2006)

Just curious about the Lance poster in the shop. Is it a banner that is hung up, a painted picture on the wall, or wallpaper that is glued to the wall? 

I ask because it is obviously a Trek poster (note the corners) and was probably put up when many believed (not me) that Lance competed clean. If I had this poster up, my decision to take it down would be based on the difficulty of removing it. Also, you could learn a great deal about what the shop owner "believes" based on how it is hung up there. If it is a banner and easily taken down by cutting a few zip ties, I would remove it, and I would venture to guess the shop owner is a huge pro-Lance person. If it is painted on the wall, it would be a bit more of a pain to paint over the picture, I would remove it, but I wouldn't make it priority one for my business. If it is painted, the owner probably likes Lance enough to leave it up. If it is wallpaper, I would leave it up, because that would be a HUGE PITA to take down appropriately. If it is wallpaper, the shop owner probably isn't a big Lance fan, and likely just doesn't want to mess with taking it down.

FYI, the above is my personal opinion....I lay no claim to know what the rest of the world thinks.


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## spade2you (May 12, 2009)

I'd guess that you'd need to move the bench and get a pretty tall ladder to remove this one. Upon removal, there will be a very huge and empty wall, which someone would complain about just as much.


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## Samadhi (Nov 1, 2011)

spade2you said:


> I'd guess that you'd need to move the bench and get a pretty tall ladder to remove this one. Upon removal, there will be a very huge and empty wall, which someone would complain about just as much.


That's pretty much right on in my view.

I also suspect that the owner of the shop isn't getting any complaints or at least so few complaints that it would be pointless to remove the poster, especially if the owner likes the poster in the first place. There are other, smaller Lance posters around the shop as well - reprints of old magazine covers where LA was featured.

Retailers tend to be sensitive to negative input from customers. If enough people came in and complained, the poster would be gone. There are 4 other good shops within 5 minutes or this one. Competition is stiff. To alienate customers over something like this would be suicidal, IF they were complaining. It seems obvious to me that they're not.

And as Spade to you points out, and empty wall would be undesirable as well.


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## den bakker (Nov 13, 2004)

Samadhi said:


> And as Spade to you points out, and empty wall would be undesirable as well.


Too bad the knowledge of how to make large prints have been lost over time.


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## jlandry (Jan 12, 2007)

If you just draw a mustache on old Lance, no one will recognize him.


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## regnaD kciN (Mar 2, 2013)

Slartibartfast said:


> Why would I be surprised? Different people do things for different reasons. Riding because you love it is a great reason. I love it too. I let myself languish for several years while I raised a child, but when Lance won a couple tours it heightened my interest again. Nothing wrong with that as far as I'm concerned. If it bothers you, I simply don't care. Couldn't care less, in fact.


I'm just glad that I was inactive in cycling during those years, so Pharmstrong was a distant character -- albeit one with an apparent "inspiring" story -- for me.


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## regnaD kciN (Mar 2, 2013)

Bluenote said:


> Oh look. It's been a few weeks. Time for another Armstrong thread.


Actually, as a Pharmstrong thread, it's pretty innocuous. My favorites are the threads where the same Pharmstrong-defenders who, pre-Oprah, would argue to the death that their hero was utterly innocent ("he passed over 200 drug tests") and a role-model for racing clean, and who then pulled a 180 and would argue, just as intently, "so what that he's a doper -- everyone does it?"


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## simpleaz (Mar 16, 2012)

jlandry said:


> If you just draw a mustache on old Lance, no one will recognize him.


Perfect solution.


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## Local Hero (Jul 8, 2010)

regnaD kciN said:


> I'm just glad that I was inactive in cycling during those years, so Pharmstrong was a distant character -- albeit one with an apparent "inspiring" story -- for me.


*If you don't care about what happened in cycling while you were inactive...*


regnaD kciN said:


> Actually, as a Pharmstrong thread, it's pretty innocuous. My favorites are the threads where the same Pharmstrong-defenders who, pre-Oprah, would argue to the death that their hero was utterly innocent ("he passed over 200 drug tests") and a role-model for racing clean, and who then pulled a 180 and would argue, just as intently, "so what that he's a doper -- everyone does it?"


*Why do you care about threads on this message board from before you joined? *


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## spade2you (May 12, 2009)

I also care what other people spend on bikes!!!!! :mad2:


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## mpre53 (Oct 25, 2011)

spade2you said:


> I also care what other people spend on bikes!!!!! :mad2:


It cuts me to the quick when other riders don't wave at me. :lol:


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## spade2you (May 12, 2009)

mpre53 said:


> It cuts me to the quick when other riders don't wave at me. :lol:


Roadies are so mean! MTBers don't shave their legs and smoke pot! Cyclists are also misogynists.


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## Doctor Falsetti (Sep 24, 2010)

Slartibartfast said:


> I certainly don't harbor ill will towards him -- what a waste of life-force! To be honest, though, EVERY non-cyclist I've talked with about Lance post-Oprah has been strongly in his corner. I mean grandmas, fishing-tackle salesmen, my brother-in-law, my ex-boss.


Your casual poll of grandmas is not very accurate. 

Lance Armstrong Deemed Most Disliked U.S. Athlete By Forbes | The Hub | Bicycling.com

I don't harbor ill will toward him. Johan? Yeah, I don't like that guy but Lance....meh. I do think he, and his friends, did significant damage to the sport. Hard to celebrate that


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## Slartibartfast (Jul 22, 2007)

Doctor Falsetti said:


> Your casual poll of grandmas is not very accurate.
> 
> Lance Armstrong Deemed Most Disliked U.S. Athlete By Forbes | The Hub | Bicycling.com
> 
> I don't harbor ill will toward him. Johan? Yeah, I don't like that guy but Lance....meh. I do think he, and his friends, did significant damage to the sport. Hard to celebrate that


Well, Doc, I'm sure he's disliked by many, but he's like by many others. I disagree about his damage to the sport. I think he did cycling a great deal of good.


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## Local Hero (Jul 8, 2010)

Doctor Falsetti said:


> Your casual poll of grandmas is not very accurate.


I hope that's not some weird sex joke. 


> Lance Armstrong Deemed Most Disliked U.S. Athlete By Forbes | The Hub | Bicycling.com


That was like 100 days ago.


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## sir duke (Mar 24, 2006)

There's a well-known bike shop here in Tokyo with cabinets full of gleaming Campagnolo, a lot of really nice, expensive bikes, and a lovely poster of Lemond winning stuff. But they are are snooty, stand-offish and not competitive on price so they don't get my coin.


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## Staylucky (May 2, 2013)

sir duke said:


> There's a well-known bike shop here in Tokyo with cabinets full of gleaming Campagnolo, a lot of really nice, expensive bikes, and a lovely poster of Lemond winning stuff. But they are are snooty, stand-offish and not competitive on price so they don't get my coin.


This is the reason I have a hard time giving shops any money these days. Snobby service, even when you're spending 100-1000's on bikes and repairs. 

I do everything I possibly can in my garage with my own hands and buy almost everything online. I hope they feel the sting of online buying soon enough and change their ways.


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## spade2you (May 12, 2009)

My shop likes me. I ride my bike a lot.


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## Samadhi (Nov 1, 2011)

spade2you said:


> My shop likes me. I ride my bike a lot.



Same here.

The mechanics there like me too, cos I wrench my own and don't come and bother them about **** I can do myself.

They also like me cos i don't take the Lance Armstrong thing very seriously, I don't shave my legs and smoke pot.


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## Local Hero (Jul 8, 2010)

Samadhi said:


> Same here.
> 
> The mechanics there like me too, cos I wrench my own and don't come and bother them about **** I can do myself.
> 
> They also like me cos *i don't take the Lance Armstrong thing very seriously, I don't shave my legs and smoke pot.*


Wait a second. That last sentence part a "Green Eggs and Ham" feel to it. As in, we all know the Eggs are green. Is the Ham green too? 

Spoiler: https://blogs.slj.com/afuse8production/files/2012/06/GreenEggsHam1.jpg

Not that it matters. Smoke or don't -- I pass no judgment


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## spade2you (May 12, 2009)

Local Hero said:


> Wait a second. That last sentence part a "Green Eggs and Ham" feel to it. As in, we all know the Eggs are green. Is the Ham green too?
> 
> Spoiler: https://blogs.slj.com/afuse8production/files/2012/06/GreenEggsHam1.jpg
> 
> Not that it matters. Smoke or don't -- I pass no judgment


You know if they just legalized pot? There would be no Lance Armstrong helmets for gun threads.


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## Local Hero (Jul 8, 2010)

spade2you said:


> You know if they just legalized pot? There would be no Lance Armstrong helmets for gun threads.


If they legalize pot we would have a lot more of this. 

View attachment 280578


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## spade2you (May 12, 2009)

Local Hero said:


> If they legalize pot we would have a lot more of this.
> 
> View attachment 280578


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Invalid Attachment specified. If you followed a valid link, please notify the administrator


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## Local Hero (Jul 8, 2010)

Exactly


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## Samadhi (Nov 1, 2011)

Local Hero said:


> If they legalize pot <snip>


We did :thumbsup:.


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## Notvintage (May 19, 2013)

No I wouldn't, because it means they probably have Treks in there. hahha


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## aclinjury (Sep 12, 2011)

I wish more bicycle shops post Playmate pics like cheap auto shops. haha


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## spade2you (May 12, 2009)

aclinjury said:


> I wish more bicycle shops post Playmate pics like cheap auto shops. haha


Misogynist!!!!!11111111111


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## Samadhi (Nov 1, 2011)

Yep, Trek and Bianchi.

I suppose you hate Bianchi, too.


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## Samadhi (Nov 1, 2011)

aclinjury said:


> I wish more bicycle shops post Playmate pics like cheap auto shops. haha


hahah

I've been wanting a "Daisy Mae" calendar for my Man Cave/bike workshop/garage. My wife objects strenuously. I don't really get that, but I don't want that to be the hill I die on, either.
:cryin:


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