# Where to go from here?



## RkFast (Dec 11, 2004)

Terrible news out of the Giro today, but the question will come, where do we go from here? 

Preliminary reports are that Weylandt "looked back" to judge his postion on the descent relative to other riders. We have to ask....what was he thinking looking back on a fast fast, super-tecnical descent? I understand Weylandt was a great bike handler, but this was a really questionable move, IMO and if there is ONE thing that I hope comes out of this tragedy, its that the pros rethink some of their techniques when going downhill. It seems a descent doesnt go by without seeing pros take some REALLY questionable moves on descents or ride in some really weird postion....like sitting on the top tube and putting ALL their weight on the front wheel of the bike. I understand these guys are the best of the best, but Ive ridden enough, and understand physics enough to know that is a dangerous way to ride a bike downhill, no matter HOW much experience you have. 

Believe me, I do not seek to "blame the victim" here. I do not think Weylandt was riding reckless. Im just saying that perhaps how this portion of bike racing is done needs to be re-evaluated to enhance safety. When other sports experience tragedy, they go through this process. Pro Cycling needs to do that here. It would be terrible if his death was in vain.

On edit: I dont mean to start this thread "too soon" but I strongly feel the discussion has to take place.


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## olr1 (Apr 2, 2005)

I can't help feeling that you are taking one isolated incident and over-reacting ever so slightly. It's bike racing, it's occasionally dangerous; the number of top level professional cyclists who die while racing is very small and that is a reflection of the skill of those who do it.

Incidentally the USE of RANDOM capitalisation does LITTLE to further your cause.


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## rogger (Aug 19, 2005)

So WTF do you propose, eliminate riders' own responsibility by supplanting them by unenforcable rules thought up by the UCI?


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## godot (Feb 3, 2004)

First death in a major pro race in over decade.
Any call to neuter descents is a complete knee jerk reaction to an isolated incident.

To the OP - Jens went down hard on a descent during last years Tour. Wasn't doing anything remarkable or seemingly stupid at the time. Should the UCI have stepped in with regulations over that incident?


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## asciibaron (Aug 11, 2006)

godot said:


> First death in a major pro race in over decade.
> Any call to neuter descents is a complete knee jerk reaction to an isolated incident.


i didn't know 2008 was a decade ago.

this crash is horrible and the riders have been complaining about the descents in the Giro. this punctuates their concerns.


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## spade2you (May 12, 2009)

asciibaron said:


> this crash is horrible and the riders have been complaining about the descends in the Giro. this punctuates their concerns.


Agreed. Perhaps they were looking to be a little too epic with the gladiators....er...I mean riders. 

I like a good race, but not at the expense of rider safety. There was an extremely close call in the 2009 Giro, too. That guy was just plain lucky to be a live after falling that far.


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## godot (Feb 3, 2004)

The last death in a major race that I can recall is Kivilev in `03. Which wasn't on a descent.


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## den bakker (Nov 13, 2004)

asciibaron said:


> i didn't know 2008 was a decade ago.
> 
> this crash is horrible and the riders have been complaining about the descents in the Giro. this punctuates their concerns.


because he crashed on a straight part of a descent?


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## BicycleBastard (Mar 5, 2011)

Im wondering what the peloton will decide to do for tomorrow. Will they decide to ride together in some sort of "all together" sort of message or will it be business as usual? I would expect some kind of reaction from the other riders. A fellow rider dies, you just cant go and attack all out the next day as if nothing happened.

Also, David Millars message is spot on. Anyone who hasnt read it follow this link http://velonews.competitor.com/2011/05/road/the-cycling-world-reacts-to-weylandts-death_172107


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## den bakker (Nov 13, 2004)

RkFast said:


> ... do not think Weylandt was riding reckless.


ok


RkFast said:


> Preliminary reports are that Weylandt "looked back" to judge his postion on the descent relative to other riders. We have to ask....what was he thinking looking back on a fast fast, super-tecnical descent? I understand Weylandt was a great bike handler, but this was a really questionable move, IMO and if there is ONE thing that I hope comes out of this tragedy, its that the pros rethink some of their techniques when going downhill. It seems a descent doesnt go by without seeing pros take some REALLY questionable moves on descents or ride in some really weird postion....


Which one is it?


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## godot (Feb 3, 2004)

asciibaron said:


> i didn't know 2008 was a decade ago.


If you're referring to Bruno Neves, it is believed he had a heart attack which caused him to crash.


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## cda 455 (Aug 9, 2010)

godot said:


> If you're referring to Bruno Neves, it is believed he had a heart attack which caused him to crash.


According to VeloNews:



> 2005: Alessio Galletti (ITA), dies from a heart attack 15 km from the finish in the Subida Naranco race.


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## godot (Feb 3, 2004)

spookyload said:


> It is an unfortunate mishap. You can't control how everything happens when racing a bike. It does send a message out to all of us who aren't pros that bad things can happen very fast. I don't see where any serious regulation could change anything and still call it a bike race. What could they do? Neutralize the descents? That is a skill that is tested just like climbing in the event.


Well stated.


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## stevesbike (Jun 3, 2002)

Isaac Gálvez died on the track in 2006, Thomas Casarotto died last year, Juan Barrero died in 2004, Tim Pauwels in 2004, Kivilev in 2003, Nicole Reinhart in 2000, Saúl Morales also in 2000. By contrast, no driver has died in Formula one since 1994 or in Nascar since 2001. Cycling is damned dangerous - high speeds, little protection. Sad.


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## spookyload (Jan 30, 2004)

It is an unfortunate mishap. You can't control how everything happens when racing a bike. It does send a message out to all of us who aren't pros that bad things can happen very fast. I don't see where any serious regulation could change anything and still call it a bike race. What could they do? Neutralize the descents? That is a skill that is tested just like climbing in the event.


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## cda 455 (Aug 9, 2010)

stevesbike said:


> Isaac Gálvez died on the track in 2006, Thomas Casarotto died last year, Juan Barrero died in 2004, Tim Pauwels in 2004, Kivilev in 2003, Nicole Reinhart in 2000, Saúl Morales also in 2000. By contrast, _*no driver has died in Formula one since 1994 *_or in Nascar since 2001. Cycling is damned dangerous - high speeds, little protection. Sad.


Yeah; Ayrton Senna. May 01, 1994

My favorite Formula One race car driver  .

I named my youngest son after him.


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## thehook (Mar 14, 2006)

I work in a profession where men die. We train our hardest to prevent it. We grieve our brothers. We pray for there souls. We pray for his family. We honor his memory. And we pay our respects by learning from his death..........Then we do what he would most want for us.........To get back on the rig and be aggressive and do our job......Never Forget!


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## Fixed (May 12, 2005)

*propose?*



rogger said:


> So WTF do you propose...?


This?


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## mohair_chair (Oct 3, 2002)

The answer is simple. We need to ban looking back during a bike race.


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## bahueh (May 11, 2004)

*those are just the pros...*



stevesbike said:


> Isaac Gálvez died on the track in 2006, Thomas Casarotto died last year, Juan Barrero died in 2004, Tim Pauwels in 2004, Kivilev in 2003, Nicole Reinhart in 2000, Saúl Morales also in 2000. By contrast, no driver has died in Formula one since 1994 or in Nascar since 2001. Cycling is damned dangerous - high speeds, little protection. Sad.


amateur riders get jacked up all the time on the weekend circuit. I know of 2 deaths here locally during races in the past 8-10 years. One heart attack, one barrier impact. Both very very sad days and weeks to follow.


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## bdaghisallo1 (Sep 25, 2007)

We certainly shouldn't over react here. How many thousands of pros descend hundreds of times per year? I am amazed that there aren't more fatal accidents like this to be perfectly honest.


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## steve_e_f (Sep 8, 2003)

any regulation is knee-jerk. don't neuter the sport. the death is unbelievably tragic, but considering how many racers/races there are a year, it actually seems that things like this don't happen as often as I would expect if I were a "man on the street".

it was an accident. you can't regulate away accidents without destroying the sport.


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## cda 455 (Aug 9, 2010)

steve_e_f said:


> any regulation is knee-jerk. don't neuter the sport. the death is unbelievably tragic, but considering how many racers/races there are a year, it actually seems that things like this don't happen as often as I would expect if I were a "man on the street".
> 
> it was an accident. you can't regulate away accidents without destroying the sport.


Like I've said for years:

You'll die driving to the race before you'll die IN the race.


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## Gatorback (Jul 11, 2009)

Heading out on the roads among all the cars for a weeknight ride is probably more dangerous, from a serious injury or death perspective, than racing in the pro peloton. We all take risks for adventure and in order to live rich lives. Riding bikes can be dangerous, as can many other sports. 

Every incident like this should be reviewed to consider safety issues, and whether things should be done to reduce risks, but sometimes the conclusion is that what happened is just one of the risks of riding or racing. At first glance it seems this tragedy was just an unfortunate accident arising out of one of the accepted risks in cycling that you really can't get rid of without drastically changing the sport. A quality rider who absolutely belonged in the pro ranks made a simple mistake most every cyclist has probably made before and this time it ended in tragedy.

What can be done to reduce the risk of what happened today? I don't think there is an acceptable answer and it is a risk most all of us would take if given the chance to ride at that level of our sport.


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## 55x11 (Apr 24, 2006)

stevesbike said:


> Isaac Gálvez died on the track in 2006, Thomas Casarotto died last year, Juan Barrero died in 2004, Tim Pauwels in 2004, Kivilev in 2003, Nicole Reinhart in 2000, Saúl Morales also in 2000. By contrast, no driver has died in Formula one since 1994 or in Nascar since 2001. Cycling is damned dangerous - high speeds, little protection. Sad.


Not to split hairs, but it's a bit of apples to oranges comparison: a lot of these deaths you quoted were from what would be considered "natural" causes - such as suffering a heart attack, and a lot of them occurred in smaller races. (I suspect some non-zero number of people suffered heart attacks playing chess.)

the list below includes a lot of deaths in car racing well past 2000, and I am willing to bet the list is far from complete.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_racing_drivers_who_died_in_racing_crashes


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## stevesbike (Jun 3, 2002)

I believe Pauwels was the only rider on the list who may have had a heart attack prior to his crash. Just trying to highlight how dangerous the sport can be. Bonnie Ford put it well, I thought, in a commentary on espn below. 

http://sports.espn.go.com/oly/cycling/columns/story?columnist=ford_bonnie_d&id=6515689


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## Iwannapodiumgirl (Jun 26, 2002)

Weylandt's death was tragic, and yes, i think things need to be learnt from it.

it is an unfortunate part of the sport and Millar's quote in velonews sums it up well "... it is a tragedy that we as sportsmen never expect, yet we live with it daily, completely oblivious to the dangers we put ourselves in. This is a sad reminder to us, the racers, what risks we take and what lives we lead."

i don't think professional bodies nor race organisers can tell riders how to ride, adjust rules to prevent dangers on descents, or remove descents from races. rather it is the riders that may need to adjust their risk levels and techniques.


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## asciibaron (Aug 11, 2006)

den bakker said:


> because he crashed on a straight part of a descent?


do you ride a bike?


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## asciibaron (Aug 11, 2006)

godot said:


> The last death in a major race that I can recall is Kivilev in `03. Which wasn't on a descent.


a major as in 3 week tour? there have been several pro racers die in races since 2003.


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## atpjunkie (Mar 23, 2002)

*at the company I used to work*

as well as Svend, Svend used to shoot photos for Ducati. The Moto GP rider for Ducati loved photoshoots w/ Svend because he too is a cyclist and they could talk bikes instead of motorcycles. So he's doing a shoot one summer and the guy says "I got to ride in the Bianchi team car @ the Giro" (being Bianchi has the cross market bike they did with Ducati)
The guy says " I rode in the team car during a couple mountain stages, and let me say THOSE GUYS ARE NUTS!"
Svend says "coming from a guy who does 200 mph on a motorcycle."
The racer responds "in full faced helmet, body armour, leathers, heavy boots on a closed course with wide open shoulders to slide out your speed" "These guys are in basically underwear on narrow roads with concrete pilings, steel barricades, cliffs, rock walls and doing it all with a contact patch the size of a quarter"

I'm relaying / paraphrasing the story as it was told by me. Impressed the hell out of Svend how in awe this guy was of the pro peloton


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## cda 455 (Aug 9, 2010)

atpjunkie said:


> as well as Svend, Svend used to shoot photos for Ducati. The Moto GP rider for Ducati loved photoshoots w/ Svend because he too is a cyclist and they could talk bikes instead of motorcycles. So he's doing a shoot one summer and the guy says "I got to ride in the Bianchi team car @ the Giro" (being Bianchi has the cross market bike they did with Ducati)
> The guy says " I rode in the team car during a couple mountain stages, and let me say THOSE GUYS ARE NUTS!"
> Svend says "coming from a guy who does 200 mph on a motorcycle."
> The racer responds "in full faced helmet, body armour, leathers, heavy boots on a closed course with wide open shoulders to slide out your speed" "These guys are in basically underwear on narrow roads with concrete pilings, steel barricades, cliffs, rock walls and doing it all with a contact patch the size of a quarter"
> ...


Interesting perspective. Thanks for sharing.


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## godot (Feb 3, 2004)

asciibaron said:


> a major as in 3 week tour? there have been several pro racers die in races since 2003.


How many have died due to a fall while descending? That is the context of the OP. That's where I was coming from in my reply (and did a poor job making that clear). 

The last death that I can remember from a crash on descent was Casartelli in 1995, not saying there aren't others, that's just the last one I recall.

Many riders have died in other circumstances since then, but the OP was talking about the risks riders take on descents and whether or not changes or rules were needed to minimize the risk to the riders.

Context.


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## atpjunkie (Mar 23, 2002)

*welcome*



cda 455 said:


> Interesting perspective. Thanks for sharing.


hopefully Svend will chime in in case my recollection needs adjustment

but guy had nothing but respect and awe for the risks cyclists take on those descents


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## godot (Feb 3, 2004)

atpjunkie said:


> hopefully Svend will chime in in case my recollection needs adjustment
> 
> but guy had nothing but respect and awe for the risks cyclists take on those descents


Reading that story made me remember the first time I watched the video from the Tour a couple of years ago where Cancellara was descending like a madman to catch back on to the main group. I don't have the same perspective as a pro GP racer, but it was insane.


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## cda 455 (Aug 9, 2010)

godot said:


> Reading that story made me remember the first time I watched the video from the Tour a couple of years ago where Cancellara was descending like a madman to catch back on to the main group. I don't have the same perspective as a pro GP racer, but it was insane.


Stage 14 has sheer cliffs. 

It's going to be interesting how they deal will them. Apparently some of the steepest climbs ever.


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## JCavilia (Sep 12, 2005)

*Formula One*



stevesbike said:


> Isaac Gálvez died on the track in 2006, Thomas Casarotto died last year, Juan Barrero died in 2004, Tim Pauwels in 2004, Kivilev in 2003, Nicole Reinhart in 2000, Saúl Morales also in 2000. By contrast, no driver has died in Formula one since 1994 or in Nascar since 2001. Cycling is damned dangerous - high speeds, little protection. Sad.


Statistically meaningless comparison. There are hundreds of professional bike races every year, with up to 200 riders in each. There are, what, 20 F1 races, with 20 or so cars?


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## tinkerbeast (Jul 24, 2009)

Iwannapodiumgirl said:


> Weylandt's death was tragic, and yes, i think things need to be learnt from it.
> 
> it is an unfortunate part of the sport and Millar's quote in velonews sums it up well "... it is a tragedy that we as sportsmen never expect, yet we live with it daily, completely oblivious to the dangers we put ourselves in. This is a sad reminder to us, the racers, what risks we take and what lives we lead."
> 
> i don't think professional bodies nor race organisers can tell riders how to ride, adjust rules to prevent dangers on descents, or remove descents from races. rather it is the riders that may need to adjust their risk levels and techniques.


agreed. whatever comes out of this tragedy, i hope riders readjust their priorities when taking these risks. they are the ones with all to lose, and, unless its a ridiculous route, they are the ones that make it dangerous.

i dont think we should be in awe of pro riders for their descending skills and guts. we shouldn't be making heros out of these guys and 'epic' races. maybe once we get rid of this culture in cycling, whether the risks are worth it will be an easier choice for the riders to make. a race can be perfectly entertaining and safe as long as we as the audience are entertained by skill and not thrills


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## Creakyknees (Sep 21, 2003)

tinkerbeast said:


> agreed. whatever comes out of this tragedy, i hope riders readjust their priorities when taking these risks. they are the ones with all to lose, and, unless its a ridiculous route, they are the ones that make it dangerous.
> 
> i dont think we should be in awe of pro riders for their descending skills and guts. we shouldn't be making heros out of these guys and 'epic' races. maybe once we get rid of this culture in cycling, whether the risks are worth it will be an easier choice for the riders to make. a race can be perfectly entertaining and safe as long as we as the audience are entertained by skill and not thrills



bullshit. if that were true then rbr would have a forum dedicated to this crap:


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## atpjunkie (Mar 23, 2002)

*years ago in the Giro (2002)*



godot said:


> Reading that story made me remember the first time I watched the video from the Tour a couple of years ago where Cancellara was descending like a madman to catch back on to the main group. I don't have the same perspective as a pro GP racer, but it was insane.



when OLN (now versus) showed endless amounts of coverage, eventual winner Paolo Savoldelli lept away from the front of the chase group right before cresting a mountain and began a solo pursuit of the breakaway on the descent. Phil and Paul said "we have a camera bike isolated on the best descender in cycling and we're just going to give you uninterupted coverage of his chase" and then showed 20 minutes plus of Il Falcone bombing down this mountain it was bar far the greatest moment of sports I have ever watched on TV. He was dropping the motorbike and using every square centimeter that road provided from apex to apex. Any corner that really needed braking was answered with an out of the saddle sprint to get back up to speed. The cameraman would tilt down every now and then and show the speedo of the motorbike. Was scary as all heck.


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## tinkerbeast (Jul 24, 2009)

what? i dont know how you went from not glorifying the dangerous aspects of the sport to synchronized cycling


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## 55x11 (Apr 24, 2006)

atpjunkie said:


> when OLN (now versus) showed endless amounts of coverage, eventual winner Paolo Savoldelli lept away from the front of the chase group right before cresting a mountain and began a solo pursuit of the breakaway on the descent. Phil and Paul said "we have a camera bike isolated on the best descender in cycling and we're just going to give you uninterupted coverage of his chase" and then showed 20 minutes plus of Il Falcone bombing down this mountain it was bar far the greatest moment of sports I have ever watched on TV. He was dropping the motorbike and using every square centimeter that road provided from apex to apex. Any corner that really needed braking was answered with an out of the saddle sprint to get back up to speed. The cameraman would tilt down every now and then and show the speedo of the motorbike. Was scary as all heck.


I remember that footage, it was way pre-HD days but totally mind-blowing. I will never be able to descend even half as well.


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## il sogno (Jul 15, 2002)

atpjunkie said:


> when OLN (now versus) showed endless amounts of coverage, eventual winner Paolo Savoldelli lept away from the front of the chase group right before cresting a mountain and began a solo pursuit of the breakaway on the descent. Phil and Paul said "we have a camera bike isolated on the best descender in cycling and we're just going to give you uninterupted coverage of his chase" and then showed 20 minutes plus of Il Falcone bombing down this mountain it was bar far the greatest moment of sports I have ever watched on TV. He was dropping the motorbike and using every square centimeter that road provided from apex to apex. Any corner that really needed braking was answered with an out of the saddle sprint to get back up to speed. The cameraman would tilt down every now and then and show the speedo of the motorbike. Was scary as all heck.


I remember that. Salvodelli was descending like a madman, coming within a centimeter or two of the edge of the road. Brilliant descending.


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## Iwannapodiumgirl (Jun 26, 2002)

tinkerbeast said:


> agreed. whatever comes out of this tragedy, i hope riders readjust their priorities when taking these risks. they are the ones with all to lose, and, unless its a ridiculous route, they are the ones that make it dangerous.
> 
> i dont think we should be in awe of pro riders for their descending skills and guts. we shouldn't be making heros out of these guys and 'epic' races. maybe once we get rid of this culture in cycling, whether the risks are worth it will be an easier choice for the riders to make. a race can be perfectly entertaining and safe as long as we as the audience are entertained by skill and not thrills


i am still in awe of the pros... i admire their athleticism, endurance and bike handling skills. and if they win a race, they're in bibshorts standing next to some pretty hot women - that takes some conviction!

there is a fine line between a calculated risk and gamble. this tragedy seems to be an unfortunate accident and i don't think we should suddenly stop admiring pro riders for their skills.

the one pro i don't admire for his handling skills in John Lee Augustyn... even though he rode a bianchi.


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## PaleAleYum (Jan 12, 2006)

mohair_chair said:


> The answer is simple. We need to ban looking back during a bike race.


Yeah 'ol Pat oughta jump on this one.


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## BicycleBastard (Mar 5, 2011)

Robbie Hunter tweeted this morning that the race will go on as scheduled but the peloton will not be racing today in remembrance of Weylandt. I completely agree with this, I think there is really no other option but to do that. Complete the ride like you where meant to but allow the fallen riders team finish in front to honor the memory of the man who died and what he died for.


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## T0mi (Mar 2, 2011)

We just have to realise that one can make mistake with the fatigue induced by an ascension.


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## Gatorback (Jul 11, 2009)

> Most men lead lives of quiet desperation and go to the grave with the song still in them.
> Henry David Thoreau
> /QUOTE]
> 
> ...


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## RkFast (Dec 11, 2004)

Iwannapodiumgirl said:


> Weylandt's death was tragic, and yes, i think things need to be learnt from it.
> 
> it is an unfortunate part of the sport and Millar's quote in velonews sums it up well "... it is a tragedy that we as sportsmen never expect, yet we live with it daily, completely oblivious to the dangers we put ourselves in. This is a sad reminder to us, the racers, what risks we take and what lives we lead."
> 
> i don't think professional bodies nor race organisers can tell riders how to ride, adjust rules to prevent dangers on descents, or remove descents from races. rather it is the riders that may need to adjust their risk levels and techniques.


THANK YOU.

Millar's quote makes my point perfectly and is pretty disconcerting. Pro athletes, race car drivers, skiiers, on and on should NEVER be "oblivious" to the danger and risk they put themselves in. 

In my opinion , if that really sums up how the pros approach riding these types of descents, thats a huge problem.


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## RkFast (Dec 11, 2004)

Gatorback said:


> > Most men lead lives of quiet desperation and go to the grave with the song still in them.
> > Henry David Thoreau
> > /QUOTE]
> >
> ...


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## DZfan14 (Jul 6, 2009)

F1 lost two drivers that weekend. Roland Ratzenberger and Ayrton Senna. Ratzenberger died of a basal skull fracture. The same injury killed Dale Earnhardt in 2001. After Earnhardt died the HANS device emerged in NASCAR and a few weeks later found itself in F1.

That same weekend in F1, during qualifying a young Rubens Barrichello also suffered a bad crash. He fractured several bones and swallowed his tongue. Senna apparently climbed a fence after being denied entry to the medical center and he was the first person that Rubens saw when he came to.

The next day Senna died and they found an Austrian flag in the cockpit that he intended to use to honor Ratzenberger after the race.

It was a pretty rough weekend for that sport.

This accident doesn't point to a seam in safety policy in pro cycling and won't be interpreted as such. It was a freak mishap. It just needs to be left at that. David Millar said it best when he pointed out at that as a sprinter, Wouter was an above average bike handler by pro standards and probably among the very best. It just shows that nobody is immune to an accident. 

I think the riders know when a race isn't safe. They stage protests and take care of themselves. Given what these guys are doing day in day out, this is a pretty safe sport.


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## Gatorback (Jul 11, 2009)

RkFast said:


> Gatorback said:
> 
> 
> > Risks are one thing. Stupid risks are something else. IMO, I see pro riders taking a lot of stupid risks.
> ...


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## RkFast (Dec 11, 2004)

Gatorback said:


> RkFast said:
> 
> 
> > I agree with you that risks are one thing and stupid risks are something else. But I'm not so sure I agree I see pro riders taking a lot of stupid risks. In considering risk you have to factor in the skill of the person taking the risk, an important part of the equation.
> ...


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## TWD (Feb 9, 2004)

DZfan14 said:


> I think the riders know when a race isn't safe. They stage protests and take care of themselves.


The Giro has had it's protests in the past, and it will be interesting to see what rider reactions are for the remaining stages which sound like they will have some more challenging and potentially dangerous descents.

The way the sport is currently organized, a stage protest seems to be about the only say that the riders have when it comes to their safety. 

I don't think anyone would trust the UCI to be a voice of reason when it comes to rider safety, and I'm not so sure that the race organizers can be fully trusted either since they have a lot sunk into each stage by the time the route is announced and the preparations are made.

While this tragic accident was likely caused by an unfortunate moment of inattention by WW, the penalty for slight lapses of that nature go up as the descents get steeper/faster/narrower/twistier. 

Most of the protests that I can recall have revolved around unsafe conditions for stage finishes that were likely to come down to a bunch sprint (e.g. traffic furniture, parked cars, narrow/sharp turns in the finals ks), but I can't recall any related to a mountain descent (anybody feel free to jump in and cite some if there are any). 

In the case of descents that haven't been used before and are likely remote, and if it's not on a decisive stage, the odds of a lot of riders having done course recon is a lot less. 

I'm not in any way advocating sanitizing the parcours, but I think there is perhaps room for improvement. Perhaps this is another area where a stronger rider union could play a role in course selection and have input when an organizer brings in a new descent that hasn't been used before. Ideally, this would happen before the race route is rolled out to the public and the deals for stage finishes etc... are finalized.

Let the riders truly have some say in their safety rather than waiting until the last minute and relying on a stage protest to take care of it.


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## rufus (Feb 3, 2004)

atpjunkie said:


> when OLN (now versus) showed endless amounts of coverage, eventual winner Paolo Savoldelli lept away from the front of the chase group right before cresting a mountain and began a solo pursuit of the breakaway on the descent. Phil and Paul said "we have a camera bike isolated on the best descender in cycling and we're just going to give you uninterupted coverage of his chase" and then showed 20 minutes plus of Il Falcone bombing down this mountain it was bar far the greatest moment of sports I have ever watched on TV. He was dropping the motorbike and using every square centimeter that road provided from apex to apex. Any corner that really needed braking was answered with an out of the saddle sprint to get back up to speed. The cameraman would tilt down every now and then and show the speedo of the motorbike. Was scary as all heck.



One of the most amazing things I'd ever seen. Up to that point, we rarely saw much of descents on TV coverage of cycling, being that they were mostly pre-taped and heavily edited highlight reels. You'd see whatever action might have happened on the climb, the crest and beginning of the descent, and then cut to commercial.


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## Kram (Jan 28, 2004)

I remember that too. Brilliant.


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## Kram (Jan 28, 2004)

Stupid risks are taken by people who have no right doing what they are doing and then pay the price. Pro cyclists clearly know what are doing and with rare exception do it without incident. And remember, he crashed because of a lapse of concentration, not doing something he wasn't qualified to do.


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## cda 455 (Aug 9, 2010)

Kram said:


> Stupid risks are taken by people who have no right doing what they are doing and then pay the price. Pro cyclists clearly know what are doing and with rare exception do it without incident. And remember, he crashed because of a lapse of concentration, not doing something he wasn't qualified to do.


Or too inexperienced.


WW was signed at the last minute as a replacement; IIRC.


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## nate (Jun 20, 2004)

cda 455 said:


> Or too inexperienced.
> 
> 
> WW was signed at the last minute as a replacement; IIRC.


Huh? He won a stage in both the Vuelta and the Giro in previous years, so clearly he has ridden grand tours with dangerous descents. I don't see how you could argue he was too inexperienced.

If you want to argue that he was not adequately prepared, go ahead. I'm still not sure I would buy that it had anything to do with the crash, but it would make more sense than calling him inexperienced.


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## cda 455 (Aug 9, 2010)

nate said:


> Huh? He won a stage in both the Vuelta and the Giro in previous years, so clearly he has ridden grand tours with dangerous descents. I don't see how you could argue he was too inexperienced.
> 
> If you want to argue that he was not adequately prepared, go ahead. I'm still not sure I would buy that it had anything to do with the crash, but it would make more sense than calling him inexperienced.


Good points there.


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## LostViking (Jul 18, 2008)

Cycling is a dangerous sport - for many reasons. When you get on a bike at any level from recreation or commuting to the pro level, you expect and accept a certain amount of risk. W.W. knew the risks and was clearly talented enough to take them. His accident was a tradgedy and something we all feel at a certain level. 
That said, I don't see what can be done to reasonably avoid accidents like this in the future - can you see the UCI pushing a "Don't look back" regulation? Hard to fix this by changing rules. 
I agree with the other posters who have proposed that it might be more useful in terms of rider safety to look into rules for determining when the course itself is too dangerous.


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## spade2you (May 12, 2009)

cda 455 said:


> Or too inexperienced.
> 
> 
> WW was signed at the last minute as a replacement; IIRC.


As others said, he wasn't inexperienced. Last minute replacement, maybe. I know the original goal was for Benati to go for the points competition, but he was out due to a broken collar bone.


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## baker921 (Jul 20, 2007)

Here's the UCI response http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/ot...nology-following-death-of-Wouter-Weyland.html


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## baker921 (Jul 20, 2007)

And here's the Giro's http://www.mail.com/int/sports/other/409200-giro-organizers-promise-to-inspect-course-safety.html


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## TWD (Feb 9, 2004)

> Pat McQuade: "We will make sure we are not making bikes which cause problems themselves. But they the teams understand there is a limit to what you can do to a bike."


Um.......Pat......who is this "WE" that you speak of? Is the UCI making bikes now? Oh yeah, right, no new bikes in a UCI race unless it has Pat's ugly mug shot sticker on the seat tube.

You know, I was wondering who would be the first tool to use WW's tragic death to further their own agenda. Thanks for not making me wait Paddy.


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