# Zipp 303 vs Enve 45?



## looigi (Nov 24, 2010)

Probably been answered before but what's the pro/cons of tubular Zipp 303 vs Enve 45? 

What's the diff between Enve 1.45 and 2.45?

TIA


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## Zen Cyclery (Mar 10, 2009)

Looigi- I would have to suggest the 45 over the 303. I have seen too many Zipp rims come back with spokes pull through and I am starting to get a bit skeptical. 
Concerning your second question, the difference is simple. The 2.45 is a rim with a higher spoke count and a bit of extra material to ensure durability even for the clydesdales.


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## looigi (Nov 24, 2010)

Zen Cyclery said:


> Looigi- I would have to suggest the 45 over the 303. I have seen too many Zipp rims come back with spokes pull through and I am starting to get a bit skeptical.



Hey thanks. Yeah, the Enve wheels mold in the holes so maybe that's better. I probably should ask about Reynolds Forty Six tubulars while I'm at it...


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## Zen Cyclery (Mar 10, 2009)

The 46 t wouldnt be a bad rim but if you were to buy complete from Reynolds it would be a bit heftier than necessary. That wheelset comes in at 1180 grams with DT hubs at a 20/24 spoke count. You could easily go sub 1000 grams with Alchemy hubs laced to a 1.45 rim at 20/24. Just an idea though.


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## vortechcoupe (Jun 6, 2006)

How about these two rims for cyclocross? The 303 looks nice with the wider rim. Would the enve rims make a stiffer, more durable wheel with same kind and number of spokes?


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## Zen Cyclery (Mar 10, 2009)

I dont know how long those Zipp hubs would hold up doing CX. They can barely withstand normal road riding for multiple seasons (from what I have personally seen). 
Additionally, remember that tire selection will have a much bigger effect than the rim width. IMO, I would rather have a rim that sheds mud efficiently rather than running the risk of not enough clearance in a track that cakes to your hoops.


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## MWT (Nov 12, 2002)

Zen - will Enve be introducing new, more aerodynamic rims soon? I've read rumors to that effect.


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## mikeyp123 (Mar 9, 2007)

The 303 was completely redesigned recently. It's the ONLY carbon rim to survive Paris-Roubaix.


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## Lectron (May 29, 2005)

mikeyp123 said:


> The 303 was completely redesigned recently. It's the ONLY carbon rim to survive Paris-Roubaix.


haven't seen any new Zipps with spoke hole ruptures.
The tire bedding has increased strength too.


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## looigi (Nov 24, 2010)

Fascinating posts and info. Thanks. Still thinking and shopping, so:

The Mavic CC Ultimate is supposed to be bullet proof. Kind of pricey, but what the latest consensus on these?


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## Zen Cyclery (Mar 10, 2009)

MWT said:


> Zen - will Enve be introducing new, more aerodynamic rims soon? I've read rumors to that effect.


For some time now I have been told that more aero rims are around the corner but Im not holding my breath until I actually see a pair. I suspect that they have many prototypes but Ill bet that the delay lies in them trying to get the weight down.


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## cdhbrad (Feb 18, 2003)

Even so, they are not THAT strong. My LBS is owned by a husband and wife who ride a lot. She has the new 303 Tubulars on her bike and, within the last 3 months, has cracked two front rims.......she weighs maybe 100lbs. Go figure? My Zipp tubulars are a set from 2007 that I had Ron Ruff build for me and I haven't had any problems with them. 

All that said, if I were in the market for wheels like those, I'd probably go with the Enve 45s, either from the factory built on Chris King R45 hubs or from one of the builders who post here and built to your specific specs. Cost will be comparable to factory Zipps.


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## Zen Cyclery (Mar 10, 2009)

looigi said:


> Fascinating posts and info. Thanks. Still thinking and shopping, so:
> 
> The Mavic CC Ultimate is supposed to be bullet proof. Kind of pricey, but what the latest consensus on these?


 Stay far far away from the CCU. Aside from being a bit heavy (and quite overpriced), there are some other problems. First, those fat bladed spokes arent going to help with aerodynamics (unless your in a wind tunnel). The reason that this is the case is because most wind doesn't come from directly head on. There is almost always a bit variance in wind resistance from side to side. And when these fat bladed carbon spokes go slightly sideways, they start acting like sails. 
Secondly, getting parts for the CCUs would be nightmare. I can almost guarantee that most LBS's will not carry that crappy, proprietary carbon spoke or most of the hub internals in stock. Mavic just needs to do things their own way (as usual) which makes for quite the pain when trying to replace anything.


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## kbiker3111 (Nov 7, 2006)

mikeyp123 said:


> The 303 was completely redesigned recently. It's the ONLY carbon rim to survive Paris-Roubaix.


They are? Because plenty of 303's ate it on the cobbles and it looks like Sebastian Hinault's Reynolds made it across the finish.

http://www.cyclingnews.com/races/108th-paris-roubaix-his/108th-paris-roubaix/photos/115139


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## looigi (Nov 24, 2010)

kbiker3111... looks like Sebastian Hinault's Reynolds made it across the finish.[/QUOTE said:


> I asked but got no comments on the Reynolds Forty Six wheels. They seam to me to be pretty much in the same category as the Zipps and Enves in terms of weight, features, price. Pro's/cons?
> 
> The fact they worked for Hinault is particularly relevant to me as we're the same height and astrological sign. I do have 20 lbs on him however.


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## kbiker3111 (Nov 7, 2006)

looigi said:


> I asked but got no comments on the Reynolds Forty Six wheels. They seam to me to be pretty much in the same category as the Zipps and Enves in terms of weight, features, price. Pro's/cons?
> 
> The fact they worked for Hinault is particularly relevant to me as we're the same height and astrological sign. I do have 20 lbs on him however.


Lose 20 pounds 

The Reynolds are good rims, probably a half step below the ENVE 1.45s. The ENVEs are slightly lighter and have molded spoke beds, but the Reynolds (especially with DT hubs and spokes) are good enough for just about anyone. Neither is as aero as the Zipps.


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## looigi (Nov 24, 2010)

kbiker3111 said:


> Lose 20 pounds ... Neither is as aero as the Zipps.


Not only am I fat, I'm pretty slow, so aero counts way less. Score!

There is the '11 Forty Six but also the '10 and previous DV46 which are still available at a pretty good price. There are some differences but any reason to spend the extra few hundred bux for the '11?


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## DiegoMontoya (Apr 11, 2010)

Zen Cyclery said:


> Looigi- I would have to suggest the 45 over the 303. I have seen too many Zipp rims come back with spokes pull through and I am starting to get a bit skeptical.
> Concerning your second question, the difference is simple. The 2.45 is a rim with a higher spoke count and a bit of extra material to ensure durability even for the clydesdales.


You are ALWAYS pimping Edge/Enve. Hey, I have two sets of Enves and two sets of Zipps. Never had a problem with any of them.

You know, Zipp isn't as successful as they are because they make crappy wheels. Zipp makes a 404 rim with extra spokes as well. They also make a 303 cross wheel.


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## Zen Cyclery (Mar 10, 2009)

DiegoMontoya said:


> Zipp makes a 404 rim with extra spokes as well. They also make a 303 cross wheel.


 Extra spokes just seems like upping the odds that one is going to pull out. Zipp is successful because they used to be cutting edge. They also happen to have some of the sexiest looking wheels on the market (IMO) which can help sell any product. The only reason they are around is because their foot was in the wheel market well before many other more progressive companies.


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## -dustin (Jan 11, 2009)

Enve - March 15th


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## looigi (Nov 24, 2010)

Zen Cyclery said:


> Extra spokes just seems like upping the odds that one is going to pull out.


Huh? That's too Zen for me. 


And what's with "Enve - March 15th"? Beware the Ides of March?


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## DiegoMontoya (Apr 11, 2010)

Zen Cyclery said:


> Extra spokes just seems like upping the odds that one is going to pull out. Zipp is successful because they used to be cutting edge. They also happen to have some of the sexiest looking wheels on the market (IMO) which can help sell any product. The only reason they are around is because their foot was in the wheel market well before many other more progressive companies.


I'm not sure what you mean by "progressive companies." Who are these progressive companies? Enve? 

I love their wheels, but I don't see anything super special about them. The most progressive companies seem to be Carbonsports and AXLightness, but they have a price tag to match.


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## MWT (Nov 12, 2002)

looigi said:


> And what's with "Enve - March 15th"? Beware the Ides of March?


I think that means Enve will be announcing new aero rims on 3/15. That, or they will have a new rim dedicated to the Irish...


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## commfire (Sep 2, 2009)

Any ideas what's happening the 15th???


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## Tincup9 (Apr 1, 2010)

I sent an email to Enve. They said they are announcing new shapes and depths. specifically said they are not replacing a current set. Also told me no clinchers in 2011. Tubular only. My rep said press would see it in April, releases in may. Zipp rep said a firecrest 303 would be available this fall. True? Don't know. Disappointing. Yes.


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## commfire (Sep 2, 2009)

Thanks for the info. I was just about to pull the trigger on some 1.65's. Can't wait to see the new design.


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## DiegoMontoya (Apr 11, 2010)

Enve's announcing new shapes? 

I dunno. I hear round works pretty well for wheels. I wonder what alternative shape they'll propose.


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## Tincup9 (Apr 1, 2010)

Round. Funny. I assumed they new shape would be toroidal but who knows. They will probably make a minor change and come up with something like swirl lip generator for marketing. 
I was looking forward to a clincher version. No such luck until next year. Timing on this years release seems like a moving target.


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## DiegoMontoya (Apr 11, 2010)

I'm not very optimistic about Enve. I really wish them success, but the market for $2500+ wheels is already pretty crowded, and they're not exactly breaking ground in new technology. 

Not knocking them, since I have two pairs of their wheels. Just voicing my opinion. I bought their wheels on eBay. I would certainly not pay their asking price for the wheels.


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