# Clinchers for 'cross



## JohnStonebarger (Jan 22, 2004)

I'm building up a set of clinchers specifically with cyclocross in mind. I'll run Mud2s on wider A-23 rims. Hoping to find latex tubes in 30+ sizes, but failing that I'll run appropriately sized butyl -- avoiding overstretched rubber in hopes of preventing pinch flats.

My goal is to experiment with 30-35psi on a moderate course. Any other suggestions? I mean, besides "run tubular?"


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## krisdrum (Oct 29, 2007)

Sounds like a pretty solid set-up. Maybe try running them tubeless to omit the pinch flat issue (although then you have to contend with the possible burp). I think I remember a few posters saying they had success converting the A23s to tubeless. I'd also look at the Stans 340 Alpha rim.


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## Gripped (Nov 27, 2002)

JohnStonebarger said:


> I'm building up a set of clinchers specifically with cyclocross in mind. I'll run Mud2s on wider A-23 rims. Hoping to find latex tubes in 30+ sizes, but failing that I'll run appropriately sized butyl -- avoiding overstretched rubber in hopes of preventing pinch flats.
> 
> My goal is to experiment with 30-35psi on a moderate course. Any other suggestions? I mean, besides "run tubular?"


I am a believer in the Clement PDX tires. 33 width. Excellent traction.


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## wibly wobly (Apr 23, 2009)

I just tried the Clement PDX this morning on hardpack / gravel trails and found them pretty sketchy. I think it's just too open to get contact on that kind of stuff. Granted that's not at all the right terrain for that tire but, I was expecting it to be a little better. I really had to back off on the turns because I could feel it washing away on the gravel. It does look like a nice tire. I'll put it to use this weekend. It looks like there'll be some mud then. Otherwise, Specialized's Captain CX Pro seems to be a pretty good all-rounder.


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## tsunayoshi (Dec 3, 2009)

I know someone whose been running the A23 tubeless on his mountain bike with great success. Yellow tape + Notubes 29er rimstrip. Don't know if he had success with just yellow tape.

I ran my A23 set with 32mm Crosswolfs this past weekend at ~34 psi and don't think I bottomed out even once. I weigh 165-ish


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## jroden (Jun 15, 2004)

i used the maxxis larsen years ago and they were good, the muds should be a great choice. the key with either is to avoid riding much on blacktop as they wear fast. i weigh 170 and train on the muds at around 30 and they feel about right for muddy conditions. they are a bit soft at that psi, so i have to be a little careful


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## Guymk (Mar 27, 2009)

Another great lesser known tire is the Bontrager Jones CXR. Its a great Mud/all around tire. its 127tpi and surprisingly supple, and they weigh in at 310g. On an a23 they measure out to be 31.5mm wide.


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## JohnStonebarger (Jan 22, 2004)

Good to hear, all. Thanks.

So I can't help but wonder -- at 30 - 35 psi what am I giving away to tubulars? Not that it matters, since I'm really not interested in running tubulars again anyway, but is 10 psi really going to make the difference?


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## Mr. Scary (Dec 7, 2005)

JohnStonebarger said:


> Good to hear, all. Thanks.
> 
> So I can't help but wonder -- at 30 - 35 psi what am I giving away to tubulars? Not that it matters, since I'm really not interested in running tubulars again anyway, but is 10 psi really going to make the difference?


What about open tubulars offered by Challenge like the Grifo, the ride is superior (glued tread instead of vulcanized)? If a company offered an open tubular mountain bike tire I'd be all over that too.


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## RRRoubaix (Aug 27, 2008)

JohnStonebarger said:


> Good to hear, all. Thanks.
> 
> So I can't help but wonder -- at 30 - 35 psi what am I giving away to tubulars? Not that it matters, since I'm really not interested in running tubulars again anyway, but is 10 psi really going to make the difference?


That depends on you- 10 psi *can* make a difference!
It wouldn't for me, but that's me.



Gripped said:


> I am a believer in the Clement PDX tires. 33 width. Excellent traction.


Word!
I run Mud2's, but my I got the PDX Crusade tires last year for my wife. They are better than my Muds. So, to top her, I'm going tubular this year.
(Oh, that reminds me- Run Tubular!! :lol: )


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## AndrwSwitch (May 28, 2009)

I'm on a Hutchinson Bulldog rear/Piranha front combo until things get really sloppy around here. Then, some Redline tires I picked up from a friends "take my ****" table at his moving away party. Huge tread, probably not UCI-legal.


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## James Henry (Sep 29, 2011)

*Frame*

Frame materials are selected with an aim to produce a lightweight, yet stiff and responsive frame. Lightness is prized for ease of carrying while running. A cyclo-cross racer may lift or carry their bike as many as 30 times in one 60 minute race, increasing the desire for a lightweight bicycle. Aluminum frames were popular in cyclo-cross bicycles long before they became commonplace on the road. Today the most popular material is aluminium with carbon fiber being popular at a professional level and steel and titanium being favorites amongst riders searching for a smoother ride and a longer lasting frame.


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## McFlyMpls (Sep 22, 2008)

In the early season up here in Minnesota it's been pretty dry. I've been riding the Clement LAS tire with the file-tread in the center and the same outside "Dugast Rhino-like" knobs on the outside as the PDX tire. Both the LAS and PDX have good tpi count, and I personally found the LAS to be a true 33mm width, allowing lower pressures. The really are a nice fat 33, and have a very round shape when mounted and I have found them to be great on the bumpy sections. I have been running with about 36-38 psi in them (I weigh 170); so far they have great feel and I know I could easily run lower pressure--I'm just kind of experimenting for right now. I definitely plan to get the PDX for wetter, sloppier conditions. I also plan to try the Maxxis Larsen Mimo tire for mud.

Cyclocross mag had great things to say about the new Clement tires: http://www.cxmagazine.com/clement-las-cyclocross-clincher-tire-review

Michelins were the top clincher tire a few years ago, but they are only 30mm (and the true width is probably less than that), and since 'cross has grown in the last few years I think that there are now quite a few more clincher tire options available besides the old Mud2s.


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## McFlyMpls (Sep 22, 2008)

wibly wobly said:


> I just tried the Clement PDX this morning on hardpack / gravel trails and found them pretty sketchy. I think it's just too open to get contact on that kind of stuff. Granted that's not at all the right terrain for that tire but, I was expecting it to be a little better. I really had to back off on the turns because I could feel it washing away on the gravel. It does look like a nice tire. I'll put it to use this weekend. It looks like there'll be some mud then. Otherwise, Specialized's Captain CX Pro seems to be a pretty good all-rounder.


hmmm...umm yeah that PDX tire isn't meant for gravel. Also, what tire pressure are you running? Since I've been racing on the LAS tire I can say that it RAILS in the dry grass courses. I'm impressed with the tire.


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## Local Hero (Jul 8, 2010)

What's the going opinion on happy mediums, tubeless?


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## WA/SScrossracer (Oct 4, 2010)

I've had good luck, with the Mud tire, when my pair was obviously worn out last year, after probably like 4 seasons, almost a semi slick, I got a pair of the Maxxis Larsen Mimo's from my team bike shop friend to try, last season they were pretty good, likely about as good as the Mudd, I have heard great things about the Clement PDX, but have not tried it, it is pretty big, looks good for real mud. I have another pair of Mimo's on order for my Geared bike and am looking forward to this weekends race-and getting rid of the worn out Vittoria XG pro clinchers on it. Haven't triend tubeless yet, I am usually running 30-35 front and 35-40 rear with tubes, works for me so far.


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## wibly wobly (Apr 23, 2009)

McFlyMpls said:


> hmmm...umm yeah that PDX tire isn't meant for gravel. Also, what tire pressure are you running? Since I've been racing on the LAS tire I can say that it RAILS in the dry grass courses. I'm impressed with the tire.


I wasn't really expecting them to be great on those trails but, was expecting a little better. Pressure wise, I think I was running them around mid to high 30s. File tread tires can be pretty amazing on dry grass. Same goes for frozen ground to.


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## McFlyMpls (Sep 22, 2008)

WA/SScrossracer said:


> I've had good luck, with the Mud tire, when my pair was obviously worn out last year, after probably like 4 seasons, almost a semi slick, I got a pair of the Maxxis Larsen Mimo's from my team bike shop friend to try, last season they were pretty good, likely about as good as the Mudd, I have heard great things about the Clement PDX, but have not tried it, it is pretty big, looks good for real mud. I have another pair of Mimo's on order for my Geared bike and am looking forward to this weekends race-and getting rid of the worn out Vittoria XG pro clinchers on it. Haven't triend tubeless yet, I am usually running 30-35 front and 35-40 rear with tubes, works for me so far.


Great info, thanks. BTW I just found out about what looks to be another great tire by Clement called the MXP (that's the airport code for Milan). This tire is supposed to be like an all conditions tire, like the Challenge Grifo or Vittoria XG:
http://www.cxmagazine.com/exclusive...tubular-technology-and-upcoming-mxp-ush-tires

It's looking like Clement will also offer tubular versions of all their race tires too.


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## McFlyMpls (Sep 22, 2008)

wibly wobly said:


> I wasn't really expecting them to be great on those trails but, was expecting a little better. Pressure wise, I think I was running them around mid to high 30s. File tread tires can be pretty amazing on dry grass. Same goes for frozen ground to.


How about you sell me your PDXs and buy a set of Clement's new gravel tire, the USH:
http://www.cxmagazine.com/exclusive...tubular-technology-and-upcoming-mxp-ush-tires


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## wibly wobly (Apr 23, 2009)

lol, no way. I NEED a dedicated mud tire. It's been fairly dry here lately but, last year things were actually muddy (there's usually a few good muddy races a year). On three of the races my usual grifos made them feel like I was riding on a skating rink. Tacky mud that the thread couldn't shed to save it's life. I felt like I was riding on a road tire. Tomorrow should have some tacky mud. We've have some rain the past few days and it'll be cold race day. Might even have some snow tomorrow morning. This'll be when I expect the Clement to show me who's boss. I'll try and just run it up front because I prefer tubulars but, I'll see how it goes if I need it in the back as well. I just can't decide which direction to put it on. I've read that there's some good mud flinging action if the Y tread leads with the open top because then the thinner bottom of the Y thread flings mud away really well.


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## Local Hero (Jul 8, 2010)

Kenda Kommando, $25 each *today*. 
Kenda K1065 Kommando Cyclocross Tire at WesternBikeworks

Has anyone used these?


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## beaker (Feb 2, 2005)

McFlyMpls said:


> Michelins were the top clincher tire a few years ago, but they are only 30mm (and the true width is probably less than that), and since 'cross has grown in the last few years I think that there are now quite a few more clincher tire options available besides the old Mud2s.


Muds actually measure out wider than their nominal 30mm width. My set comes in at 32mm (my apologies for the poor pic quality, but you can get the idea...)


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## McFlyMpls (Sep 22, 2008)

Local Hero said:


> Kenda Kommando, $25 each *today*.
> Kenda K1065 Kommando Cyclocross Tire at WesternBikeworks
> 
> Has anyone used these?


those tires got a great review at cyclocross mag.


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## McFlyMpls (Sep 22, 2008)

wibly wobly said:


> On three of the races my usual grifos made them feel like I was riding on a skating rink. Tacky mud that the thread couldn't shed to save it's life. I felt like I was riding on a road tire. Tomorrow should have some tacky mud. We've have some rain the past few days and it'll be cold race day. Might even have some snow tomorrow morning. This'll be when I expect the Clement to show me who's boss. I'll try and just run it up front because I prefer tubulars but, I'll see how it goes if I need it in the back as well. I just can't decide which direction to put it on. I've read that there's some good mud flinging action if the Y tread leads with the open top because then the thinner bottom of the Y thread flings mud away really well.


have you tried the challenge limus? the MXP's tread will be very similar to the grifo.


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## wibly wobly (Apr 23, 2009)

Nope. I was going to try and get my hands on a pair this year. I wanted to get some locally built carbon wheels (pretty cheap and uses the Gigantex rim) for the road and dry cross this year. Was planning on putting my griffos on those and putting the limus on my current alu tubs. My new roof ended up costing a lot more then I planned (bad wood) so that nixed that plan for the year. So I picked up the PDXs and put them on my backup / spare clincher wheels. Mainly they're there if I hit sticky mud. I like the feel of tubs a lot more then clinchers. The griffos are usually fine from my exp unless they hit sticky / tacky mud. They just can't shed it enough. With the PDX being so bloody open, I'm really interested on seeing how they play out. I'm expecting to see some tacky stuff today.


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## heartland (Sep 28, 2010)

Has anyone tried Maxxis Mud Wrestlers? I tried searching for reviews but couldn't find much.


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## wibly wobly (Apr 23, 2009)

Colour me impressed. I started out with the PDX up front. My tubby griffo was sliding around in the wet grass on the hard turns but, up front the Clement stayed put. I changed my back wheel on the next lap. They def seemed to hook up better in the wet slick muddy grass.


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## McFlyMpls (Sep 22, 2008)

wibly wobly said:


> Colour me impressed. I started out with the PDX up front. My tubby griffo was sliding around in the wet grass on the hard turns but, up front the Clement stayed put. I changed my back wheel on the next lap. They def seemed to hook up better in the wet slick muddy grass.


Glad to hear it. Its been so dry up here is MN, and I'm having a hard time finding a set of PDX's. Oh well. So how did you do?


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## wibly wobly (Apr 23, 2009)

I think I would have had similar traction with the Spec Captain CX Pro that I have, mainly because the tread depth is about the same and it wasn't really muddy, just greasy. so that super open tread wasn't really needed. the griffo's are a little more shallow like tubulars tend to be. usually I don't find it matters so much because you can run tubs much lower, so it makes up for the difference in depth. 

race wise, I did ok. did two madison races back to back. was top 8 in the first one. that was a larger and slower field. the next race was faster and I think I was getting a bit tired by then, so placed right in the middle of the pack. I really like doing the madison. there's a lot of people standing around heckling each other, cheering others on and the laps you do can be stupid hard because you get that 5-10 min rest inbetween. you get in there and just puke your guts out way harder then you would normally because who gives a phek about pacing yourself.


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## nyxis (Oct 1, 2011)

Has anyone tried the Vittoria XM Pro clincher? curious how this tire is in the mud. Had my first race this past sunday and my Ritchey Speedmax just didnt seem to be up to the task in the wet grass or soft sand..


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## SlowJoeCrow (Sep 3, 2009)

nyxis said:


> Has anyone tried the Vittoria XM Pro clincher? curious how this tire is in the mud. Had my first race this past sunday and my Ritchey Speedmax just didnt seem to be up to the task in the wet grass or soft sand..


My wife has them on her bike and Saturday on a mix of rock, sand, and a little mud she didn't like them and asked me to swap them out for some Bulldogs like my son and I had. The Vittorias seem a little narrower than Bulldogs and the tread elements are much finer so they should work better in deeper mud. I plan to put these on a set of pit wheels and try them on a day with more mud. I race in Portland so that should be any day now


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## mudge (May 15, 2010)

tsunayoshi said:


> I know someone whose been running the A23 tubeless on his mountain bike with great success. Yellow tape + Notubes 29er rimstrip. Don't know if he had success with just yellow tape.
> 
> I ran my A23 set with 32mm Crosswolfs this past weekend at ~34 psi and don't think I bottomed out even once. I weigh 165-ish


I've got two sets of A23's... one for my fixie and one on my 'cross bike, both tubeless, and both with no issues whatsoever. Two tips: don't use the 29er rimstrip, and don't pay for the fancy yellow tape. Get some fiberglass-reinforced strapping tape instead of the yellow tape. Works just fine. Also, use the standard 26" mtb strip and stretch it over the rim. Once stretched, it's slightly narrower than the 29er strip and fits better. 

I'm just shy of 200# and I'm running a Piranha on the back at 38psi paired to a Bulldog up front at 35psi, no burping.


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## mudge (May 15, 2010)

wibly wobly said:


> lol, no way. I NEED a dedicated mud tire.


You need a pair of Crossfires. Crazy grip. Too much for grass, acceptable for everything else, great for mud.

IRD Crossfire at BikeTiresDirect


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## CDB (Oct 20, 2005)

McFlyMpls said:


> In the early season up here in Minnesota it's been pretty dry. I've been riding the Clement LAS tire with the file-tread in the center and the same outside "Dugast Rhino-like" knobs on the outside as the PDX tire. Both the LAS and PDX have good tpi count, and I personally found the LAS to be a true 33mm width, allowing lower pressures. The really are a nice fat 33, and have a very round shape when mounted and I have found them to be great on the bumpy sections. I have been running with about 36-38 psi in them (I weigh 170); so far they have great feel and I know I could easily run lower pressure--I'm just kind of experimenting for right now. I definitely plan to get the PDX for wetter, sloppier conditions. I also plan to try the Maxxis Larsen Mimo tire for mud.
> 
> Cyclocross mag had great things to say about the new Clement tires: http://www.cxmagazine.com/clement-las-cyclocross-clincher-tire-review
> 
> Michelins were the top clincher tire a few years ago, but they are only 30mm (and the true width is probably less than that), and since 'cross has grown in the last few years I think that there are now quite a few more clincher tire options available besides the old Mud2s.


I'm confused by this post. I've been using tubeless in various situations over the past 6 years, never feeling confident with the reliability until I paired the Stans 29er and Alpha340 rims with either a Michi Mud2 or Stans Raven. At 170 lbs and good bike handling skills, I am easily able to ride w/ my tires set at 28-32psi, which easily makes them shine as compared to tubulars.

The problem with both of those tires is that they are not UCI legal and as an elite rider, I am forced to keep my tire diameter to 33mm or less when I do the big events. Both of those clincher tires I mention above measure out close to 35 mm.

Yes, the Michi's say they are 30 but they are not. I just ordered some Clement LAS clinchers to try, as I've heard they were a true measured tire and conformed to the 33mm or less dimension. Laying them flat, in comparison to a Michi Mud and Stans Raven, they are just as wide, bead to bead. Airing them up, they measure too wide.

I hate gluing tires, but am forced to continue using tubulars because there isn't a good clincher tire option yet that conforms to the UCI limit, while offering a decent tread pattern and reliability in "tubeless mode".


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## The Domestique (Jul 18, 2011)

Great conversation


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## nyxis (Oct 1, 2011)

nyxis said:


> Has anyone tried the Vittoria XM Pro clincher? curious how this tire is in the mud. Had my first race this past sunday and my Ritchey Speedmax just didnt seem to be up to the task in the wet grass or soft sand..


pulled the trigger on a pair of these last week ended up running them in my race on sunday... seemed to have lots of traction in the wet / dry grass and through the sandpit..overall i was quite pleased with them over my ritchey speedmax.

I plan to go tubeless at some point probably not until i pinch flat..

ride specs:
rider: 175#
tires: 38psi
rim: mavic aksium
tube: vittoria tube


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## mudge (May 15, 2010)

nyxis said:


> pulled the trigger on a pair of these last week ended up running them in my race on sunday... seemed to have lots of traction in the wet / dry grass and through the sandpit..overall i was quite pleased with them over my ritchey speedmax.
> 
> I plan to go tubeless at some point probably not until i pinch flat..
> 
> ...


Why wait? With those tires/rims, going tubeless should be pretty easy. Spend an hour, never worry about the first pinch flat (it'll come when you least expect it, or when you can least afford it), gain better traction, control, comfort... 

Just do it!


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## pretender (Sep 18, 2007)

CDB said:


> I'm confused by this post. I've been using tubeless in various situations over the past 6 years, never feeling confident with the reliability until I paired the Stans 29er and Alpha340 rims with either a Michi Mud2 or Stans Raven. At 170 lbs and good bike handling skills, I am easily able to ride w/ my tires set at 28-32psi, which easily makes them shine as compared to tubulars.


I think you mean compared with tubes?

I think anybody considering a tubeless conversion should read your post in its entirety.


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