# Dope-fueled Results



## Dwayne Barry (Feb 16, 2003)

Let's have some fun and name riders who appear to clearly have gotten some dope-fueled results based on their relative performance at other times or relative to most of their careers.

Perhaps the biggest standout has to be Popovych. That guy finished on the podium in the Giro and close another year (IIRC) back in the dope to the gills era, then he was an O.K. domestique now he's gruppetto material (in a suspected cleaner peloton).

Zabriskie and Vandevelde appear to have kept playing the game a little longer as the peloton cleaned up, got good results, and now are no where.

I'd put Rebellin in that category as well, except he was always good, but then got really good as he was getting a bit long in the tooth around the time things were supposedly cleaning up, then he got popped.

Then there is Basso, on another level with dope, now a good rider but not exceptional (again, in a supposedly cleaner peloton).


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## Local Hero (Jul 8, 2010)

The rule of thumb is that any rider who has a suprisingly good performance is a likely doper. Also, riders who have been good for a long time are dopers. Guys on good teams are doping too. Even climbers getting cracked are testing positive. Just pick someone you don't like and presume they are on the sauce.


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## Dwayne Barry (Feb 16, 2003)

Local Hero said:


> The rule of thumb is that any rider who has a surprisingly good performance is a likely doper


No I would say the rule of thumb is any rider that had surprisingly good performances, inconsistent with the bulk of their career.

E.g., there's no way Armstrong, Ullrich, etc. would fit into this category, despite the fact that all their results were almost certainly dope-fueled.


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## cheddarlove (Oct 17, 2005)

Cadel doped last year but not this year. 
Dang! this is fun!


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## cda 455 (Aug 9, 2010)

Tommy V?


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## il sogno (Jul 15, 2002)

Chris Horner. Since he's been a RadioShacker.


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## mmoose (Apr 2, 2004)

Chiapucchi. (can we dig in the archive?)

And, in 1990, Chiapucchi attacked (Aspin or Tourmalet?) and was in the break containing, wait for it...Johan Bruyneel. (The video shows them having an interesting chat.)


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## cyclesport45 (Dec 10, 2007)

I'm fat, slow, and old. Anybody care to reccommend a "good" doctor? Maybe I can upgrade to gruppetto fodder!


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## Big-foot (Dec 14, 2002)

////////


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## jorgy (Oct 21, 2005)

Devolder?

_It has been a number of seasons since Stijn Devolder (Vacansoleil-DCM) was considered a contender of the ‘cobbled classics’. The 2008 and 2009 Tour of Flanders winner has been a shadow of the rider from past seasons and his team management isn’t impressed. The 2010 Belgian national time trial and road race champion hasn’t managed to find the same form of his Quickstep years and despite warnings from his Vacansoleil squad to lift his game, little has changed._

_Devolder is rumoured to be returning his old employer Johan Bruyneel at RadioShack-Nissan. He won the national championships during his time with US Postal, the team directed by Bruyneel at the time._


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## il sogno (Jul 15, 2002)

Indurain. Hard to believe a guy that big can motor up climbs day after day as fast as he did.


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## Dwayne Barry (Feb 16, 2003)

il sogno said:


> Indurain. Hard to believe a guy that big can motor up climbs day after day as fast as he did.


Probably so, he was Conconi's special project. Almost certainly was at the forefront of EPO use.


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## Dwayne Barry (Feb 16, 2003)

Just seeing his name as starting his TT, reminded me that Vladamir Karpets is another rider who was a GC threat a few years ago and has seemingly dropped off into obscurity these days.


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## Doctor Falsetti (Sep 24, 2010)

jorgy said:


> Devolder?
> 
> _It has been a number of seasons since Stijn Devolder (Vacansoleil-DCM) was considered a contender of the ‘cobbled classics’. The 2008 and 2009 Tour of Flanders winner has been a shadow of the rider from past seasons and his team management isn’t impressed. The 2010 Belgian national time trial and road race champion hasn’t managed to find the same form of his Quickstep years and despite warnings from his Vacansoleil squad to lift his game, little has changed._
> 
> _Devolder is rumoured to be returning his old employer Johan Bruyneel at RadioShack-Nissan. He won the national championships during his time with US Postal, the team directed by Bruyneel at the time._


Bingo! 

Racehorse to donkey


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## JohnHenry (Aug 9, 2006)

Dwayne Barry said:


> Just seeing his name as starting his TT, reminded me that Vladamir Karpets is another rider who was a GC threat a few years ago and has seemingly dropped off into obscurity these days.


Maybe they are falling off because of problems at home.


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## JohnHenry (Aug 9, 2006)

JohnHenry said:


> Maybe they are falling off because of problems at home.


I slay me.....


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## thechriswebb (Nov 21, 2008)

Menchov


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## OES (Jan 23, 2002)

I can't even take Indurain seriously.



il sogno said:


> Indurain. Hard to believe a guy that big can motor up climbs day after day as fast as he did.


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## Local Hero (Jul 8, 2010)

Maybe...MAYBE if he makes it to the sprint he'll have a chance. But you guys can't expect me to believe that a clean Indurian is going to make it over Box Hill nine times.


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## spade2you (May 12, 2009)

il sogno said:


> Indurain. Hard to believe a guy that big can motor up climbs day after day as fast as he did.


It is kinda interesting how LeMond went from TdF winner to hopelessly shelled out the back. Kinda all makes sense now.



I've had a pretty modest season this year. Perhaps I used to dope?


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## Local Hero (Jul 8, 2010)

I'm having a breakthrough season. What does that say about me?!


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## spade2you (May 12, 2009)

Local Hero said:


> I'm having a breakthrough season. What does that say about me?!


Yes. You're on the dope!


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## Local Hero (Jul 8, 2010)

Good-->Bad = Doping
Bad-->Good = Doping
Bad-->Bad = Clean


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## RRRoubaix (Aug 27, 2008)

Local Hero said:


> Good-->Bad = Doping
> Bad-->Good = Doping
> Bad-->Bad = Clean


Kind of a Lose-Lose situation, innit?


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## roddjbrown (Jan 19, 2012)

Local Hero said:


> Good-->Bad = Doping
> Bad-->Good = Doping
> Bad-->Bad = Clean


YES!! Then I'm officially clean! Take that rumour-mongers


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## SicBith (Jan 21, 2008)

spade2you said:


> It is kinda interesting how LeMond went from TdF winner to hopelessly shelled out the back. Kinda all makes sense now.
> 
> 
> 
> I've had a pretty modest season this year. Perhaps I used to dope?


I'm sure his performance drop had nothing to do with him getting is gut shot up with lead. Just saying....


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## are (Feb 5, 2005)

Your timing re: Lemond is wrong. He was shot in 1987, but he won his third tour in 1990. He also did well in 1991. He didn't complete the tour after that. So, while getting shot probably didn't help, it certainly didn't end his career. Lemond retired in 1994 which is a year or two after EPO began to be used in cycling.


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## vfr (Jul 14, 2012)

Let's just face it. The ones doping are the French. They can't win a TDF to save their lives and doping isn't going to help them either but we know they're doing it anyway. They should have doped in all the wars they fought and lost and they might not be called cowards today.......just saying'.....


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## pianopiano (Jun 4, 2005)

How about Vinokourov in the Olympic road race?


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## burgrat (Nov 18, 2005)

piano said:


> How about Vinokourov in the Olympic road race?


That's great PR for the sport of cycling. Ex-doper, previously banned, wins the gold. I like the way Vino races, but I did not want him to win. Phinney 4th though. Maybe Vino will get popped and Phinney will move up to a medal.
If you watch the last 300m, it almost looks like Uran threw the race with his look-behind and painfully slow reaction to Vino. Absolutely horrible move by Uran or absolutely horrible acting. Damn, I was hoping for Phinney.


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## eyebob (Feb 3, 2004)

Hate to say it, danielson.


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## cda 455 (Aug 9, 2010)

piano said:


> How about Vinokourov in the Olympic road race?



Have to admit that was my reaction too.


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## Local Hero (Jul 8, 2010)

Vino won...let the accusations begin!


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## ti-triodes (Aug 14, 2006)

Local Hero said:


> Vino won...let the accusations begin!



What accusations? He' a doper who shouldn't have even been allowed to race. Another great day for cycling.


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## danielc (Oct 24, 2002)

This guy was busted twice for doping and he's still racing at the biggest events in the world? What about Rasmussen, Landis or even Hamilton. How come those guys were shunned from the cycling world?

Horner's stronger performances as he's aging reminds me of Julich's breakthrough seasons with CSC in his twilight years. I admit I really like Horner such a standup guy but so was Hamilton.


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## Dwayne Barry (Feb 16, 2003)

Vino is a shadow of his former self as was evidenced in the Tour. Take enough chances though and it works out every once in a while (e.g. failed every time in the Tour but got "lucky" here).

As for the notion that guys who doped are "shunned" in the cycling world, give me a break. Hamilton, Landis may be shunned by disillusioned cycling fans but I'm sure they would be welcomed back into the peloton with open arms if they had kept their mouths shut.

There were no shortage of riders congratulating Vino after his win.


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## spade2you (May 12, 2009)

danielc said:


> This guy was busted twice for doping and he's still racing at the biggest events in the world? What about Rasmussen, Landis or even Hamilton. How come those guys were shunned from the cycling world?


Cuz when they came back, they sucked.


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## 80sroadie (Jul 30, 2012)

*Great formula*

Based on your formula and the fact I have been slow for three decades ... I have been at the forefront of clean mediocrity!!


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## Local Hero (Jul 8, 2010)

If you're a chinese girl and you swim faster than men...doping!


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## trailrunner68 (Apr 23, 2011)

Dwayne Barry said:


> As for the notion that guys who doped are "shunned" in the cycling world, give me a break. Hamilton, Landis may be shunned by disillusioned cycling fans but I'm sure they would be welcomed back into the peloton with open arms if they had kept their mouths shut.


Hamilton and Landis did keep their mouths shut.  The UCI blackballed them.

Landis did not decide to talk until none of the Pro Tour teams would hire him for 2010. At that point why should he have kept his mouth shut? The UCI drove Landis into talking.


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## nate (Jun 20, 2004)

I think it's odd that a lot of Vino bashers weren't also bashing the British team for allowing Millar to race and didn't really complain about Vino beforehand. There are certainly some who were consistent and think neither should race, but I think a fair amount of Vino bashers wouldn't be as upset if Millar had won or helped Cavendish to the win.

How many formerly convicted dopers were in the race? Certainly a lot more than just those two.


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## Salsa_Lover (Jul 6, 2008)

What about the ones that got caught, did 2 years ban and came back winning again

Basso
Vino 

etc

what do you think ? they still dope or their previous results before the Dope were clean ?


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## danielc (Oct 24, 2002)

Hamilton and Landis didn't say anything...


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## CabDoctor (Jun 11, 2005)

Romans Vainsteins
Oscar Camenzind
Michele Bartoli


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## parity (Feb 28, 2006)

Froome, in my opinion, is doped to the gills. Before 2011, he'd had done nothing of any significance. Now suddenly he's a GC contender. I wouldn't be surprised at all if he was busted sometime in the future and claims poisoning or some other ridiculous excuse.


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## trailrunner68 (Apr 23, 2011)

parity said:


> Froome, in my opinion, is doped to the gills. Before 2011, he'd had done nothing of any significance. Now suddenly he's a GC contender. I wouldn't be surprised at all if he was busted sometime in the future and claims poisoning or some other ridiculous excuse.


I think it might get truly ridiculous if he smashes Contador in the Vuelta.

A year ago Froome was struggling to find a new contract. Team Sky's manager, Brailsford, gave an interview where he placed each Sky rider on a plot that showed what level they are suitable for, like domestique in a Pro Conti, Pro Conti winner level, helper for World Tour, challenger for World Tour wins, etc. Froome was deemed barely suitable as a domestique for Pro Continental races, if I remember correctly. Later in the year he suddenly transformed and would have won the Vuelta if teh team had not screwed up with his gear selection.


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## roddjbrown (Jan 19, 2012)

parity said:


> Froome, in my opinion, is doped to the gills. Before 2011, he'd had done nothing of any significance. Now suddenly he's a GC contender. I wouldn't be surprised at all if he was busted sometime in the future and claims poisoning or some other ridiculous excuse.


As a fan I dislike doubting anyone on no actual evidence and as a Brit I don't like pointing the finger at British athletes BUT Froome seems to be a hell of a lot like a beef powered Contador. He has an incredible TT plus that ability to kick in the mountains. We've not seen many riders who have the ability to do both of those and there's generally turned out to be a reason. 

Sadly, I too would not be surprised...


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