# Venge decision



## Cni2i (Jun 28, 2010)

Hey guys,

I realize the Venge is primarily designed to move fast, especially on the flats. But, how is the Venge as an all around bike? I understand the Tarmac's geometry makes it a better "climbing" bike and maybe even a better "century" bike, but I already have two of those kind of bikes (Wilier Zero.7 and Cento Uno Superleggera). I may be selling my Cento SL soon, so looking for another frameset. 

I don't want to get the SL4 because I don't think it will be that much different from what I already have. I like the idea behind the Venge, BUT just wanted to know if it can do more than just flat out speeds; i.e., how is it for climbing and how is it for centuries (say, less than 5000' of elevation over 100 miles). 

I guess I don't want a bike JUST for flat short rides only. Is the Venge that much harsher than the SL3/SL4? Difficult geometry to climb with? 

Thanks so much.


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## izza (Jul 25, 2012)

My thoughts are as shown in this thread

http://forums.roadbikereview.com/specialized/venge-s-works-test-ride-289415.html

Since then I have continued to enjoy my Venge more than my Tarmac. It is not significantly worse on climbing, it is more responsive in out of the saddle "Old Men Sprinting to the Road Sign" competitions on Sunday mornings and I have not found it any less comfortable.

I have added Ui2 and still have it down as the best bike I have ever ridden.


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## Cni2i (Jun 28, 2010)

izza said:


> My thoughts are as shown in this thread
> 
> http://forums.roadbikereview.com/specialized/venge-s-works-test-ride-289415.html
> 
> ...


Thanks for the link and feedback. I just wonder why the Venge is just not as good of a climber as Tarmac. The overall geometry appears to be the same and a good pair of tubular wheels would knock the weight down quite a bit. My Zero.7 is at 13.09 lbs and my SL is at 13.15 lbs. If I transferred my components over from the SL with zipp 303 tubulars to the venge (size 54), I am sure she would weigh in the very low 14s?!?!? So, weight is really not an issue either. 

I am 5'8" and weigh 140 lbs. From what I've read thus far with the Venge....riders seem to be bigger (taller and heavier). Maybe the Venge is not for me? As for test riding one from the shop....well, not likely to be able to discern unless I can take her out for a 50 mile ride with some climbs.


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## izza (Jul 25, 2012)

It is slightly heavier (200g) than the Tarmac so I think the initial magazine reviewers jumped on this to say it can't be a climber.

As a relatively big guy, this is meaningless and on Tuesday this week I did my hilliest ride for the season. I found the ability to jump out of the saddle and benefit from the frame's stiffness on increased inclines continues to be a big benefit.


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## Cni2i (Jun 28, 2010)

izza said:


> It is slightly heavier (200g) than the Tarmac so I think the initial magazine reviewers jumped on this to say it can't be a climber.
> 
> As a relatively big guy, this is meaningless and on Tuesday this week I did my hilliest ride for the season. I found the ability to jump out of the saddle and benefit from the frame's stiffness on increased inclines continues to be a big benefit.


Good to hear Izza. I guess I am trying to convince myself that the Venge is more than a bike for the flats.


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## diegogarcia (Apr 29, 2010)

I had a Venge and I have an SL4 Tarmac. The Venge was incredible on the flat. The more you gave it the faster it got. I suffered on it on rolling roads however as I love the way the Tarmac attacks every gradient and sustains a quicker/livelier feel at slow speeds. But as others have said, as a sprinters bike no one could stay with me on our Saturday blast. Really unbelievable acceleration.

Like others I am not a climber so the weight is academic but I felt that the Venge climbed akin to a Cervelo with BB stiffness helping. Think climbing like Thor Hushovd compared to Contador. The Venge can climb though, have no doubt about that. It is super rigid. I also think the Tarmac excels going up due to the cobra top tube/head tube junction.

_*I find myself wanting another Venge really badly*_. I would down size too as I found the tall stand over of the 56cm Venge a nuisance due to my short inseam. It is much higher than a Tarmac due to the very high/accute seat stays.

I demoed a Venge expert last week. Super fast on the flat, descends like a stone, but again, lacked a little bit of life on certain roads but overall it is all about aggregate riding in so much where you may loose seconds here or there, you gain on the flat here or there.

Hope that helps.


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## mykol77 (Aug 1, 2011)

Let me offer my opinion:

I sold my S-Works Venge for an S-Works Tarmac SL4, prior to both I also had an S-Works Tarmac SL3. My favorite among the three is the SL4. Significantly more comfortable than either Venge or SL3, not just a hint more comfortable but significantly more that I am selling my "comfort" bike which is a Pinarello Dogma 60.1.

That being said, the Venge feels slightly faster on the flats and climbs relatively well but I found the rear triangle too harsh on bad roads or rides of more than 60 miles. The Venge looks incredible though compared to the Tarmac's more "pedestrian" look. I have all my bikes set up aggressively, no spacers and long stems.

I am 5'10" and weight 175lbs.


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## Cni2i (Jun 28, 2010)

diegogarcia said:


> I had a Venge and I have an SL4 Tarmac. The Venge was incredible on the flat. The more you gave it the faster it got. I suffered on it on rolling roads however as I love the way the Tarmac attacks every gradient and sustains a quicker/livelier feel at slow speeds. But as others have said, as a sprinters bike no one could stay with me on our Saturday blast. Really unbelievable acceleration.
> 
> Like others I am not a climber so the weight is academic but I felt that the Venge climbed akin to a Cervelo with BB stiffness helping. Think climbing like Thor Hushovd compared to Contador. The Venge can climb though, have no doubt about that. It is super rigid. I also think the Tarmac excels going up due to the cobra top tube/head tube junction.
> 
> ...





mykol77 said:


> Let me offer my opinion:
> 
> I sold my S-Works Venge for an S-Works Tarmac SL4, prior to both I also had an S-Works Tarmac SL3. My favorite among the three is the SL4. Significantly more comfortable than either Venge or SL3, not just a hint more comfortable but significantly more that I am selling my "comfort" bike which is a Pinarello Dogma 60.1.
> 
> ...


Thanks for the replies. I really appreciate the feedbacks from people who have actually owned the SL4, Venge, or both. At this point, I think I will likely go with the Venge....as I already have a dedicated "climbing" bike in the zero.7. I just talked to a fellow cyclist who is close to my size who uses his Venge as his primary bike and routinely takes her up Mt. Baldy (here in SoCali). I guess when you think about it.....if you are a good climber, you should be able to climb with pretty much any bike.  I am still amazed and humbled when I get passed on long and often steep climbs by "older" looking steel bikes with aluminum clinchers.


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## Cni2i (Jun 28, 2010)

Well, I am happy to say that I will be joining the Venge family! 2012 Project Black. My LBS had a 2012 PB Venge. Purchased frameset with s-works cranks and rotor Q rings. Will be swapping over my 2013 Sram Red components along with my eebrakes, 3T stealth black cockpit, black edition zipp 303 firecrest tubulars, arundel carbon mandible cages, prologo evo nago nack saddle, LOOK Keo Blades, and KMC x 10 SL chain. 

I would guesstimate the weight to be in the 14 lbs area....? Size 54 frame. Not likely to be as light as my Zero.7, but not complaining as I hope to gain some advantage during the flat parts of my rides. 

Will post picture once built.


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## Cni2i (Jun 28, 2010)

Was informed that she should be ready for pick up tomorrow!!! The wait is killing me.


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## Merc (Oct 9, 2011)

Can't wait to see the pics.


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## izza (Jul 25, 2012)

Enjoy


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## Cni2i (Jun 28, 2010)

Merc said:


> Can't wait to see the pics.


I will try to take some pictures if I can get to the shop in time after work. Will definitely post once I have some. It's funny how we all have seen tons of pictures of Venges but still love to look at them.....I am the exact same way. 



izza said:


> Enjoy


Thank you. I went away from Specialized for awhile b/c I saw so many at my various club rides. But, I've always appreciated their spirited ride quality (at least the SL3 tarmacs, which is what I rode before moving to Wilier).


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## Cni2i (Jun 28, 2010)

Okay. A little set back.....

I get a call from my LBS. She is built up and ready to go....weighing 13.78 lbs with cages and pedals included. 

The somewhat bad news....my Prologo Evo Nago Nack saddle (which I love) carbon rails won't work with the Venge seat post!!! I was told that the rails were 8 mm and the Venge post will only accept 7mm and 9 mm carbon rails? Sounds odd to me?!??! 

For now, they put on a Toupe with Titanium rails for me to use until they can locate an S-works Toupe version. If I have to purchase a new saddle, so be it. But I just really like my current one. 

Can you guys please elaborate/ advise about the saddle rails. Are there adapters available for the Venge seatpost? Thank you. 

I will still pick her up after work, but just a little disappointed.


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## Cni2i (Jun 28, 2010)

Here is a picture sent from my LBS:










Size 54

Visually, I like everything EXCEPT maybe the s-works crank arms color. They didn't have the matte blacked out ones so put these on instead. As soon as they can locate a set, they will swap them out for me. So, I can at least ride her for now rather than wait possibly weeks. The manager said that the 2014 cranks should be coming out soon, so I am anxious to see their color schemes. 

As for the saddle, I will likely swap out for an s-works toupe black 143 once they get that back in stock. 

Again, as pictured 13.78 lbs.

And "yes", I will be removing the yellow sticker


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## izza (Jul 25, 2012)

When I got my Venge the initial option for the clamping cups was for the standard bars (which I thought were 8mm round). I had to buy a separate pack with a pair of replacement cups for clamping carbon rails.

Since their are two types of cup I am surprised that neither fit.


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## NealH (May 2, 2004)

Like most Venges posted here, that is a great looking bike. I would leave the crank arms as they are. They complement the frame and look nice. Zipp wheels look excellent too.


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## Cni2i (Jun 28, 2010)

izza said:


> When I got my Venge the initial option for the clamping cups was for the standard bars (which I thought were 8mm round). I had to buy a separate pack with a pair of replacement cups for clamping carbon rails.
> 
> Since their are two types of cup I am surprised that neither fit.


Thanks Izza. I will have to investigate when I pick her up later on this evening. 



NealH said:


> Like most Venges posted here, that is a great looking bike. I would leave the crank arms as they are. They complement the frame and look nice. Zipp wheels look excellent too.


Thanks Neal. And I agree....there are so many nice looking Venges on this site! As for the crank arms, I guess I have to see the bike in person. Appreciate the feedback though.


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## PJ352 (Dec 5, 2007)

Beautiful bike. Congrats and _enjoy!!_ :thumbsup:


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## Cni2i (Jun 28, 2010)

PJ352 said:


> Beautiful bike. Congrats and _enjoy!!_ :thumbsup:


Thanks PJ. Took her out this evening for a short 15 mile test ride with only 600' of elevation. She felt surprisingly great right out of the gate. I say "surprisingly" because I thought it would take a little more time to get used to since her geometry is different from my Zero.7. Again, only a short ride so we'll see once I take her out this weekend. 

On a side note, when I got home to do some measurement comparisons, I noticed that :

1. Saddle height same on both bikes
2. Reach 2 cm longer on the Venge! 

I did notice this difference slightly on the test ride. Not necessarily a bad thing as I didn't feel stretched uncomfortably. Hope this 2 cm difference won't cause much of an issue.


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## Frankinnj (Feb 8, 2009)

sweet!!


Cni2i said:


> Here is a picture sent from my LBS:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


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## diegogarcia (Apr 29, 2010)

So what is your overall opinion of the ride ?

Overly harsh ? Very stiff ? Good climber ?

Would love to hear your feed back as pushed my decision back 'til end of month as really caught between the Venge and a Tarmac.


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## PJ352 (Dec 5, 2007)

Cni2i said:


> On a side note, when I got home to do some measurement comparisons, I noticed that :
> 
> 1. Saddle height same on both bikes
> 2. Reach 2 cm longer on the Venge!
> ...


Once set correctly, saddle height should never change between bikes, unless pedal/ cleat stack height and/ or shoes change.

Assuming you had a fitting, it's a little odd that reach would be 2cm's longer on the Venge. That's _huge_ in bike fit terms. How much of an issue it represents depends on your starting point. In other words, if it's 2cm's more reach compared to a well fitting bike and you're running a 90mm stem, it could be the wrong size frame for you. OTOH, if you're running a 120mm stem, going with a 100mm stem doesn't represent a problem.


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## Cni2i (Jun 28, 2010)

diegogarcia said:


> So what is your overall opinion of the ride ?
> 
> Overly harsh ? Very stiff ? Good climber ?
> 
> Would love to hear your feed back as pushed my decision back 'til end of month as really caught between the Venge and a Tarmac.


I was in your exact same situation....deciding between the two. The main reason I went with the Venge was that it just looked better....only kid  Seriously though, I went with the Venge because I already own a bike (Wilier 0.7) that has very similar riding characteristics as the SL4...IMO. The Zero.7 is a fantastic all-around riding bike. IMO, it does everything really well, especially great on long climbs and/or steep climbs. I admittedly am an elevation junky. It is also plenty stiff but does not beat you up either. I think most Tarmac owners would say the same about the SL4s. So, in the end, I just wanted a bike with a different type of pedigree than the Zero.7 and SL4. I've always been intrigued with the aero/road bike designs. Based on "professional" and forum member reviews of the Venge, it seemed like a fantastic bike. I was just a little hesitant b/c I had a preconceived notion that it only did flat speeds well. That it was designed primarily for racing. Although I already had a great "climbing" bike, I didn't want my second bike to be limited to just riding fast on the flats. After doing more and more research and talking to more Venge owners, I've learned that the Venge can do a lot more than just go insanely fast on the flats. That of course is a great plus, but what sold me was that the Venge appeared to be a very capable all around bike as well. I don't see any reason why the Venge couldn't climb as well as my Zero.7 or an SL4. Weight is definitely not an issue as my Venge weighs in at 13.78 lbs. I've been told that its overall geometry is very similar to the Tarmac. So with this Venge, I'll essentially have an "aero-climbing" bike . Win-win IMO. As for harshness versus the Tarmac, I haven't done a century yet on this Venge, so not sure. But for the quick 15 mile ride, I didn't notice it being overly harsh at all....albeit the roads were fairly well paved. I honestly think that extra "harshness" that some people describe is over stated IMO. Again, everyone's tolerance to harshness is different. I remember someone telling me that my Wilier Cento Uno Superleggera would be a pretty stiff/harsh ride. Never had any issues at all over many centuries. I don't perceive harshness being an issue with the Venge either, but we'll see. I guess if someone is used to a roubaix-like ride quality, both the Tarmac and Venge would feel harsher for sure. Will give more feedback on the ride after this weekend. As for now, can't stop staring at her 



PJ352 said:


> Once set correctly, saddle height should never change between bikes, unless pedal/ cleat stack height and/ or shoes change.
> 
> Assuming you had a fitting, it's a little odd that reach would be 2cm's longer on the Venge. That's _huge_ in bike fit terms. How much of an issue it represents depends on your starting point. In other words, if it's 2cm's more reach compared to a well fitting bike and you're running a 90mm stem, it could be the wrong size frame for you. OTOH, if you're running a 120mm stem, going with a 100mm stem doesn't represent a problem.


Thanks for the insight PJ. Yeah, my saddle height is perfect right now. Exactly set up like my previous bikes. Here is where I am coming from:

Had two Wilier bikes. One was a Zero.7 (52) and a Cento SL (54). Sold the Cento SL. I had the Zero.7 (52) and the Cento SL (54) set up so that I was able to jump from one to the other with absolutely no issues at all (ie, no back pains, shoulder/neck aches, wrist pain, knee pain...etc). I did have a professional fitting on the SL. Surprisingly, I used a 110 stem on both the 52 and the 54 with exact same stack height. Again, no issues and I was able to essentially duplicate the measurements on both bikes. I went to the 52 on the Zero under strong recommendation as the Cento SL and Zero have different geo. With the Venge, I went with the 54 under advise from a trusted guy I know at the LBS and also b/c I had a Tarmac SW SL3 before in a 54 with no issues. The builder took the measurements from my 54 SL (before I sold her) and tried to duplicate the measurements. Again, saddle height perfect. But reach a bit off as I said....approx. 2 cm. Yeah, that does seem like a big difference, but didn't notice that I was stretched at all....again, that was only for a short 15 mile ride. I can tell he tried to move the saddle as forward as possible on the Venge. Maybe I will have to try a 100 mm stem?


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## George M (Sep 25, 2008)

NealH said:


> Like most Venges posted here, that is a great looking bike. I would leave the crank arms as they are. They complement the frame and look nice. Zipp wheels look excellent too.


That about I feel as well. Good looking bike. I picked up the Roubaix a few months ago and I love the bike. I had a 2007 Roubaix and I thought it was a dog, but the changes they've made, really made it a much better bike. Anyhow enjoy the new bike. maybe when I get a little money I can buy one too.


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## NealH (May 2, 2004)

Yes, try the 100mm stem. Its still in the preferred range for that size bike and geometry. Also, consider a set of bars with a slightly shorter reach as on the excellent FSA Wing Pro, K-Force Compact and Omega. I'll never take these bars off my bikes. Love'm to death.


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## PJ352 (Dec 5, 2007)

Cni2i said:


> I can tell he tried to move the saddle as forward as possible on the Venge. Maybe I will have to try a 100 mm stem?


I wasn't there for the fitting so am not going to judge, but initial saddle adjustments should be made prior to determining a riders reach requirements.

Simply put, to maintain proper f/r weight distribution, saddle fore/ aft should not be set to accommodate for reach deficiencies. That's done at the stem/ spacers/ bars.

I agree that the 100 (or even a 110) mm stem is worth a try, but you may want to go back and ask the fitter what criteria he used for the saddle fore/ aft setting. Generally speaking geo that suites a rider results in saddles positioned mid-rail (+/- 'some').


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## Cni2i (Jun 28, 2010)

NealH said:


> Yes, try the 100mm stem. Its still in the preferred range for that size bike and geometry. Also, consider a set of bars with a slightly shorter reach as on the excellent FSA Wing Pro, K-Force Compact and Omega. I'll never take these bars off my bikes. Love'm to death.





PJ352 said:


> I wasn't there for the fitting so am not going to judge, but initial saddle adjustments should be made prior to determining a riders reach requirements.
> 
> Simply put, to maintain proper f/r weight distribution, saddle fore/ aft should not be set to accommodate for reach deficiencies. That's done at the stem/ spacers/ bars.
> 
> I agree that the 100 (or even a 110) mm stem is worth a try, but you may want to go back and ask the fitter what criteria he used for the saddle fore/ aft setting. Generally speaking geo that suites a rider results in saddles positioned mid-rail (+/- 'some').


Picked up a 100 mm stem tonight. Will try it out. Thanks again for the suggestions. 

And PJ, what you said about the fore/aft position does make sense....especially if it's an extreme adjustment; although, I think a fine adjustment one way or the other would be reasonable.


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## Cni2i (Jun 28, 2010)

Some home pictures (not great, but haven't had a chance to do a proper photoshot )...


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## PJ352 (Dec 5, 2007)

Cni2i said:


> Picked up a 100 mm stem tonight. Will try it out. Thanks again for the suggestions.
> 
> And PJ, what you said about the fore/aft position does make sense....especially if it's an *extreme* adjustment; although, *I think a fine adjustment one way or the other would be reasonable.*


Absolutely, thus my +/- 'some' comment. My Tarmac fits like a glove and my saddle position isn't _exactly_ centered, but it's close. 

Your use of the word "extreme" really says a lot, because once we get into extremes in stem length, angles, spacers and saddle positions, we're getting into _making_ a bike fit through unnecessary compromises, rather than attaining the optimal fit.

I'm not suggesting this applies to you. Simply commenting on some best practices re: bike sizing/ fit.


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## Cni2i (Jun 28, 2010)

Put a 100 mm stem in and made some minor tweaks. Reach is now within several mm's (versus 2 cm!) compared to my other bike and the drop position is identical to my other bike. Haven't ridden with this new setup yet, but planning on 60+ tomorrow with at least 3000'. Hope all goes well. 

Thanks for the feedbacks thus far.


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## PJ352 (Dec 5, 2007)

Cni2i said:


> Put a 100 mm stem in and made some minor tweaks. Reach is now within several mm's (versus 2 cm!) compared to my other bike and the drop position is identical to my other bike. Haven't ridden with this new setup yet, but planning on 60+ tomorrow with at least 3000'. Hope all goes well.
> 
> Thanks for the feedbacks thus far.


Sounds like the 100mm stem got you close on reach you nailed it on drop, so that's promising.

Let us know how the ride goes.... really is a beautiful bike!!


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## Tupelo (Apr 29, 2012)

Here are some comments about being the husband of a Venge owner. SRAM Red sucks. Period. The best thing a Red owner can do is put a DuraAce front derailleur, chain and chain rings on. The front shifting will actually work, you won't be swearing and you'll be loving life. SRAM stuff is too light and not stiff enough and has crappy shifts because everything is so flimsy. The chain will help to quiet things down in the clatter. When it's time to replace the cassette, it too will be Dura-Ace. She has Zipp 303 FC. Put in the shortest valve stem and check the hub play. The Zipp hub was so far out of adjustment that with the induced imbalance of the longer valve caused the front to shake like John Force's Top Fuel Funny Car. The frame itself is a dream, she loves it, but it was all the other crap components causing her all the grief. Hindsight 20/20....Venge with full Dura-ace 9000 and ENVE SS6.7 clinchers and CK hubs.


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## diegogarcia (Apr 29, 2010)

How goes it ?

Get some solid miles in ?


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## Cni2i (Jun 28, 2010)

Tupelo said:


> Here are some comments about being the husband of a Venge owner. SRAM Red sucks. Period. The best thing a Red owner can do is put a DuraAce front derailleur, chain and chain rings on. The front shifting will actually work, you won't be swearing and you'll be loving life. SRAM stuff is too light and not stiff enough and has crappy shifts because everything is so flimsy. The chain will help to quiet things down in the clatter. When it's time to replace the cassette, it too will be Dura-Ace. She has Zipp 303 FC. Put in the shortest valve stem and check the hub play. The Zipp hub was so far out of adjustment that with the induced imbalance of the longer valve caused the front to shake like John Force's Top Fuel Funny Car. The frame itself is a dream, she loves it, but it was all the other crap components causing her all the grief. Hindsight 20/20....Venge with full Dura-ace 9000 and ENVE SS6.7 clinchers and CK hubs.


Odd experience?!?!?

Obviously, everyone has a differing opinion on Sram, Shimano, and Dura Ace. Not going to derail this thread however discussing these gruppos as there are SOME MANY threads out there comparing the three. Just want to say that I have the 2013 Red gruppo, SW Venge, with 303 FC tubulars.....buttery smooth shifting after minor adjustments to the cable tension and limiters. If you want super "quiet" shifting, then sure, Shimano is the way to go. As for the Zipp wheels.....again, so many threads out there discussing which wheels are best. Just want to say that I love my FC tubular 303s. Absolutely no shaking issues and I have reached over 50 mph on several occasions since owning them. 100% confidence with them on descents. Now, braking with carbon surfaces on twisty and steep/technical descents is another story.


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## Cni2i (Jun 28, 2010)

diegogarcia said:


> How goes it ?
> 
> Get some solid miles in ?


Hey Diegogarcia. Hope after reading my response, you are not more confused  But here it goes.

First, I will be comparing my experience with the Venge primarily with my Zero.7 as a reference. I am 5'8" and weigh 140 lbs. Think of myself as more of a climber than a sprinter and /or that guy that consistently pulls the group. Don't put out a ton of wattage but spins with high cadence. As such, both of my bikes are set-up more for the climbs....50/34 with 11-28. The zero.7 weights 13.10 lbs with zipp 202s and the Venge weighs 13.78 with zipp 303s (both tubulars). 

Two quick *MAIN *points I've noticed: 1. It's still and will always be about the rider (engine) and 2. The Venge CAN climb. 

Two rides: 
* First ride (group)*. 61 miles with 1800' of climbing. Mostly flats and rollies with a group of 8 riders. My avg. speed 20.1 mph. The three faster guys doing most of the pull up front avg speed was closer to 20.9 mph (at least based on one of the guy's garmin). 
*Second Ride (solo)* : 35 miles with 4600' of climbing. Avg. speed was 13.9 mph. 

*Point # 1* : Despite all the data from Specialized in terms of the aero benefits and watts saved with the Venge, it's still all about the rider. I much as I wanted to hang on to the wheel of the 3rd rider on this long flat stretch, I couldn't. Got dropped. I did help pull the pack back up to the front but that's b/c the front guys slowed down. I couldn't honestly say that I rode faster on the flats versus my zero.7. This is no excuse, but the fit still wasn't just right on this ride. I kept thinking about this and that in regards to what I had to do to make it feel "better". So in the end, although I wanted to feel that the Venge was faster than the zero.7, I didn't quite get that feeling. 

*Point 2 *: I know a lot of the debate over the Venge is whether it is a one trick pony; i.e., it's simply made to go fast on the flats and may suffer somewhat on the climbs. Again, I will say it really comes down to the rider. I know my weakness is being able to maintain high speeds for many miles or to win that sprint at the end....just don't have the power. But I can do long climbs at a good pace and even accelerate on sections of the climbs. My second ride was a shorter ride but packed more elevation. Although this was not a mountain-type of terrain, there were many climbs. Grades varied from 5% upwards to 17%....the longest maybe being 2 miles long. Some will argue that it's that "psychological" benefit that you get from riding a new bike that makes you ride better/faster. I am sure that that did come into play. But that "psychological" edge didn't prevent me from getting dropped a couple of days earlier on the group ride. Anyways, I've ridden this route (second ride) many times with some variations. I've had a few PRs on certain climbs that I have not been able to break in over 3-4 months (set on my zero.7). Today, I broke three of them. 

*To summarize*: I don't think the Venge is necessarily a faster bike than my Zero.7 nor do I think the zero.7 is a better climbing bike than my Venge, although these were my preconceptions of the two bikes. IMO, it just comes down to the rider. If you are a fast sprinter or a strong domestique-type of rider, you will continue to be so whether you ride an aero-type bike or a more tradition-type of bike. If you are a strong climber, you will continue to climb strong on either type of bike as long as the bike fits well! 

*Final notes* on the Venge: Once I made a couple of adjustments after the group ride, she fitted like a glove. I had to rotate the bars up just a bit and dropped the bars by one spacer (2-3 mm). I was so ecstatic. You all know that feeling....when everything just feels "right". As for the "harshness" of the Venge....overstated IMO. Again, haven't done a century over bad tarmac, but did 61 miles over okay tarmac and didn't feel beat up at all. I do ride with tubulars running 110 psi, a specialized toupe saddle, and lizard medium density bar tape. 

Maybe those saying that it is too harsh or stiff are coming from a "plusher" set up or ride? I can't really help you with the SL4 vs. Venge debate as I have only ridden the SL4 very very briefly (definitely not enough to comment on its ride characteristics). But I have owned the SL3 SW tarmac, and can't say I notice the Venge being any harsher. And maybe those saying the Venge is not such a good climber are comparing their Venge (with possibly deeper and heavier set wheels) to a lighter SL4/SL3 build? I just can't imagine that a "good" climber on an SL4 would not climb just as well on the Venge if the weight difference was somewhat negligible AND AND the fit was setup similarly. My weight difference between my two bikes was negligible and the fit was spot on after minor tweaks. 

Sorry for the ramble


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## PJ352 (Dec 5, 2007)

Cni2i said:


> ... here it goes.
> 
> 1. It's still is and will always be about the rider (engine).
> 
> ...


Great post. I found it to be thoughtful, objective and thorough. 

FWIW, I took some excerpts that I think are key. Yes, it's all about the rider and (when climbing) STW ratios. The lighter spinners almost always pass the more powerful riders on the climbs. On a par (in importance) is fit.

At your weight, I suggest experimenting with slightly lower pressures. It's a hard concept for some to buy into, but lower pressures not only smooth the ride, but minimize the bounce over road irregularities. IME this even applies to relatively smooth surfaces.


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## Cni2i (Jun 28, 2010)

PJ352 said:


> Great post. I found it to be thoughtful, objective and thorough.
> 
> FWIW, I took some excerpts that I think are key. Yes, it's all about the rider and (when climbing) STW ratios. The lighter spinners almost always pass the more powerful riders on the climbs. On a par (in importance) is fit.
> 
> At your weight, I suggest experimenting with slightly lower pressures. It's a hard concept for some to buy into, but lower pressures not only smooth the ride, but minimize the bounce over road irregularities. IME this even applies to relatively smooth surfaces.


Glad you were able to get through my rambling 

Your point about psi is well taken. When I first started riding, I admittedly fell into that myth about higher psi equating to potentially a faster ride. Not sure where or when I read about that, but it just stuck in my head. And secondly, I was so scared about getting pinch flats on my alum. clinchers that I just ran the psi higher. I've gotten better though, as I used to run psi in the 120s....yikes!!! I will definitely give the 100 psi a try. Over 30 miles may not make a huge difference but over a century, I'm sure I'll feel less beat up at the end.

As always, appreciate your feedbacks :thumbsup:


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## diegogarcia (Apr 29, 2010)

Done it. Pulled the trigger on a 54cm satin black 2013 Venge. 

Going to put Ultegra 2013 glossy grey on it and a pair of Roval 35's shod with the new 24mm S-Works Turbo tyres for now. Romin Evo Pro, 120mm specialized stem, Look pedals, S-Works bars with Roubaix wide tape.

Cant wait to get it built. Should go live in next two weeks, just waiting on brakes as out of stock when I bought the grouppo on close out here in the UK.


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## Cni2i (Jun 28, 2010)

diegogarcia said:


> Done it. Pulled the trigger on a 54cm satin black 2013 Venge.
> 
> Going to put Ultegra 2013 glossy grey on it and a pair of Roval 35's shod with the new 24mm S-Works Turbo tyres for now. Romin Evo Pro, 120mm specialized stem, Look pedals, S-Works bars with Roubaix wide tape.
> 
> Cant wait to get it built. Should go live in next two weeks, just waiting on brakes as out of stock when I bought the grouppo on close out here in the UK.


Nice!! Congrats and great decision. I think the Venge is a great all-around bike. That is, it CAN do everything well.


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## diegogarcia (Apr 29, 2010)

How you finding her a couple of weeks down the line......? Still awaiting my build.


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## Cni2i (Jun 28, 2010)

diegogarcia said:


> How you finding her a couple of weeks down the line......? Still awaiting my build.


Absolutely addictive to ride. Let me say this.....I haven't ridden my Wilier 0.7 since, and I absolutely love the 0.7. I am sure it has a lot to do with the "new bike syndrome". But whatever it is, I just keep choosing the Venge when I go out. 

Fit of course is everything. Once I dialed in the fit just right, it was just pure bliss. The most impressive thing, or maybe I should say surprising thing about the Venge is how easy it is to climb with her. I've taken her on many 30-60 mile rides with 3000-5000'+ of climbing. No problems. I of course can say the same for the zero.7 though. But the main difference between the two bikes as I've noticed is that I feel that I can just keep on going with the Venge. That is, I just don't feel that tired. I feel like I can just keep climbing and riding longer and longer. Again, may just be due to my conditioning getting better, but I haven't done anything different (conditioning wise) since I got the Venge. The other possible reason.....less effort on the flat sections with the Venge; hence, saving energy for the climbs?!?!?

Again, want to emphasize that it's ultimately about the rider and the fit IMO. But just can't deny that there is something "special" about this Venge that makes me just want to ride longer and harder.

In fact, I am debating what to use on my first organized century *this year*.....2013 L'Etape du California (Escondido). The profile looks like 95-100 miles with 10,000'+/- of climbing. If you had asked me 1-2 months ago, I would've not considered taking the Venge. But now, not sure.


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## Cni2i (Jun 28, 2010)

These are the new cranks that I am waiting for. The LBS will swap out my 2012 cranks for these 2013. No additional charge. Yay!


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## Arnoud (Nov 3, 2008)

Look very Nice those cranks


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## diegogarcia (Apr 29, 2010)

Great stuff. Pleased to hear it. I am anxious about my build as it sounds a little pedestrian, but I know it'll fly. I would like to buy some 50/60mm wheels but can't afford them at the moment and feel that those 35mm Rovals will be a good interim wheel when shod with good rubber. Last year was so windy in the UK due to the gulf stream that there were days when my Zipps were all over the road, hence selling them.

I'll post pix when built. Now scheduled for 6th April all being well. 41 years old today and feel like a kid about this bike. I cannot bloody wait !!!!!


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## jsedlak (Jun 17, 2008)

Are you a Cat1, or a Pro? If the answer is no, then the technical difference between the Venge and the Tarmac won't matter to you. 

I used my Venge for the NJ Gran Fondo - 103 miles, 9k ft of climbing. Oh, and then I went out and did another 30 afterwards. And still felt fine.
And as if it mattered, I have numerous Strava KOMs on it.

//rant (this topic comes up a lot)



Cni2i said:


> Hey guys,
> 
> I realize the Venge is primarily designed to move fast, especially on the flats. But, how is the Venge as an all around bike? I understand the Tarmac's geometry makes it a better "climbing" bike and maybe even a better "century" bike, but I already have two of those kind of bikes (Wilier Zero.7 and Cento Uno Superleggera). I may be selling my Cento SL soon, so looking for another frameset.
> 
> ...


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## young-nyc (Oct 28, 2011)

Congrats on your purchase...
All this reading has me wanting to take my Venge out! Can't wait!..
got to remember to charge my batteries..not sure if the Di2's batteries lasted all throughout the winter =(


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## carbonLORD (Aug 2, 2004)

I liked the SL4 better but already had a distance bike with 404's on it so hey...

<img src=https://www.carbonLORD.com/_VENGE_.jpg>


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## Scheidy (Feb 7, 2014)

diegogarcia said:


> I had a Venge and I have an SL4 Tarmac. The Venge was incredible on the flat. The more you gave it the faster it got. I suffered on it on rolling roads however as I love the way the Tarmac attacks every gradient and sustains a quicker/livelier feel at slow speeds. But as others have said, as a sprinters bike no one could stay with me on our Saturday blast. Really unbelievable acceleration.
> 
> Like others I am not a climber so the weight is academic but I felt that the Venge climbed akin to a Cervelo with BB stiffness helping. Think climbing like Thor Hushovd compared to Contador. The Venge can climb though, have no doubt about that. It is super rigid. I also think the Tarmac excels going up due to the cobra top tube/head tube junction.
> 
> ...


This is really helpful for me on the size. I have ridden a 54 Tarmac since 2006 and I am taking the plunge for the S works Venge. I am debating going up to the 56 venge but this puts into perspective for me. Thanks


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## applen (Jan 29, 2014)

Very informative post, thanks!



Cni2i said:


> Maybe those saying that it is too harsh or stiff are coming from a "plusher" set up or ride?


I just built up my own Venge and my /initial/ impression with respect to this point is this:

I test-rode a Venge Pro 2013 with the ~50mm deep Roval wheels a few weeks ago and I remember thinking: wow, this is a harsh ride, espeically in the front end (for reference: I'm comming off of a CAAD-9 with a carbon seatpost [see below] and I'm 6'2" ~185 lbs). I felt like I could feel every crack in the road.

I pulled the trigger anyway after combing a lot of subjective/ experiential data from the web (like this thread), hoping I would learn to get used to it.

But on my initial ride this weekend (after finishing the build on Friday night) it felt completely different! I was not able to get my (arguably aggressive, see below) setup/fit for the test ride so that may be a factor as well (pushing my weight backward a bit), but I just keep thinking about how different it feels with my build & fit that I'm accustomed to... and I'm wondering if people who've experienced this harshness (like me) being a direct result of the stock build, especially the deep section Roval wheels that come with the bike. I rode a Mavic Kyserium (radially laced) on the front, and a old shimano RS10 rear (it was really crappy outside), and the bike felt more compliant than my old aluminum steed (that a lot of folks deem 'harsh' as well).

Anyhow, just a guess, but I'm elated with the Venge and can't wait for the roads to get better so I can really mash!

Here's my build for reference:

And my beloved CAAD9 that I'm about to retire:


It might be an optical illusion but the CAAD9 actually has about 12mm lower stack height.


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## carbonLORD (Aug 2, 2004)

The final build looks terrific. Well done!
58cm with 3T ARX Team 120mm -17°?


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## applen (Jan 29, 2014)

Yes, but 130mm length stem. I've got a 6'8' wingspan


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## carbonLORD (Aug 2, 2004)

Woah, I was going to say you have Andre Greipel arms


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