# False Advertisiing from Bikes Direct?



## Jwiffle (Mar 18, 2005)

So just out of curiosity I took a look at Bikes Direct. First bike I looked at was a Fuji Sunfire 2.0 Disc brake model. They have it priced at $599 which is a pretty good deal. But what is with the claimed $1400 value?! That is false advertising if you ask me, because looking at the components that it comes with, that bike in a bike shop would run no more than $900. In fact, I just ordered a Haro with much better components that retailed at $979 (I work in a shop, so I don't pay retail).

In fact, the current model from Fuji that seems similar retails at $829! And it arguably has better brakes and wheels than the Sunfire on BD.

Bikes Direct is misleading consumers into thinking they are getting more bang for their buck than they really are. They are saving $200 at the most, less really if you count the fact you could get a discounted model at an LBS for less than retail, as well. NOWHERE near the $800 discount BD is claiming!

Looking at a few others, they are doing the same thing...claiming a higher retail than actual to make their discount appear bigger.

Their prices are already cheap - why do they feel the need to lie about the value of the bike?


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## headloss (Mar 3, 2013)

I agree completely... the prices are misleading and unnecessary.


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## Kerry Irons (Feb 25, 2002)

Jwiffle said:


> Bikes Direct is misleading consumers into thinking they are getting more bang for their buck than they really are. They are saving $200 at the most, less really if you count the fact you could get a discounted model at an LBS for less than retail, as well. NOWHERE near the $800 discount BD is claiming!


My observation is that some of their "retail" prices are just as you say - way out of line. Others seem pretty close to reality. As a general comment if somebody is buying from BikesDirect then they should have some idea what they are doing (including the ability to look up similar bikes and find the actual price point). If BD was the only company misleading the public I would get a lot more worked up about this.


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## JCavilia (Sep 12, 2005)

You gotta do your homework, and take those "original price $____" or "a $____ value" statements from discount sellers with a grain of salt, whether it's Bikes Direct or TJMaxx. They all do it, to some extent.


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## joshuahoover (Feb 22, 2014)

JCavilia said:


> You gotta do your homework, and take those "original price $____" or "a $____ value" statements from discount sellers with a grain of salt, whether it's Bikes Direct or TJMaxx. They all do it, to some extent.


Most do it from msrp which should be set by the manufacturer. Since BD isn't saying msrp I guess they can get away with it. Not a great tactic.


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## ngl (Jan 22, 2002)

Yeh, I believe the word is "PUFFING". It's not really the truth and it's not really a lie. It's something like the new TV ad that says "YOU COULD SAVE 30%...OR MORE"?!?!


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## Jay Strongbow (May 8, 2010)

ngl said:


> Yeh, I believe the word is "PUFFING". It's not really the truth and *it's not really a lie*. It's something like the new TV ad that says "YOU COULD SAVE 30%...OR MORE"?!?!


How do you figure? If they claim a bike goes for $xx and no one is selling it for $xx that is a lie.


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## wim (Feb 28, 2005)

Jay Strongbow said:


> If they claim a bike goes for $xx and no one is selling it for $xx that is a lie.


He's not actually saying the bike sells for $xx. In advertising, the word "value" or "list" followed by a dollar figure is completely meaningless. The "sells for" interpretation is made by the reader. That, of course, is the intent and it works.


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## junior1210 (May 2, 2013)

Also keep in mind that anybody who has done their homework researching bike prices will automatically see that those 'list price' are a gimmick to entice you into believing you're getting a better deal that you are. It's lamentable but that's what they do. It still doesn't change the fact that they are decent bikes, with (in some cases) good groupsets, for decent money. If you know what you're doing you can get a good bike for not a lot of cash. I put those value claims on the same level as Ginsu Knives commercials (assuming you're old enough to remember them), but Ginsu Knives really were pretty good (I still have part of a set).


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## JCavilia (Sep 12, 2005)

ngl said:


> Yeh, I believe the word is "PUFFING". It's not really the truth and it's not really a lie. It's something like the new TV ad that says "YOU COULD SAVE 30%...OR MORE"?!?!


There's actually a more or less legal definition for "puffing", from a number of court cases where people sued sellers for breach of contract, claiming they didn't get what was promised in advertising. It's roughly "a lie that everybody should know is a lie, so you're not entitled to rely on it." The line is not always clear, to say the least.


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## AndrwSwitch (May 28, 2009)

I have to say that I feel more instinctive distrust of BD because of all their claims about being the best deal, what the bikes compare to, what they should retail for, etc. than I think I would if they left that off.

If they're really such a great deal, why do they have to convince me so hard??

Having done a little research, they do seem like one of the better places to get a disposable bike...


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## Jwiffle (Mar 18, 2005)

AndrwSwitch said:


> I have to say that I feel more instinctive distrust of BD because of all their claims about being the best deal, what the bikes compare to, what they should retail for, etc. than I think I would if they left that off.
> 
> If they're really such a great deal, why do they have to convince me so hard??
> 
> Having done a little research, they do seem like one of the better places to get a disposable bike...


Yep, that's what I'm getting at, I guess. If you can't trust their advertising, can you really trust their claims about the quality of their bikes? Like I said, their bikes as equipped are a decent price already, but it builds distrust when you see "puffery" or falsification in their advertising.

A few years ago several major retailers got into serious legal trouble for such "puffery." Jos A Banks was one I recall, as they always listed their own brand clothes at a sale price, and were never selling it at MSRP. Courts ruled they couldn't do that, as the sale price was in effect the msrp.


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## PlatyPius (Feb 1, 2009)

Here's a good example:

"*2014 Dawes
Lightning Sport AL
**WEB SALE 
SALE $259.99
*(Compare at $695)
Ships Signature Required *

Guaranteed Fit System*
Lightweight Aluminum Frame*

Save up to 60% Off List Prices
Buy Factory Direct from Bikesdirect

Compare to $695 Trek, Specialized or Giant Road Bikes

Let's look at the bike, eh?

Frame: 
Precision Handmade Dawes Altair 1 Compact aluminum with traditional round down tube, Double water bottle mounts
*IMPROVED FOR 2014:* New frame design fits more comfortable, wider tires. Well equipped with 700x28c tires, wider tires are more effective at killing road buzz and discomfort. For even more comfort and durability, you can get easily use your own wider tires up to 700x32c.
*Rear Triangle* Dawes Altair 1 aluminum curved seat stay w/ rack mount, Dawes forged road dropout with replaceable derailleur hanger 

First of all, "Altair" tubing is Fuji/Ideal. Ergo, you know who made this frame. The inwardly curved seat stays tell you it's a "Newest" model.

*Fork* Dawes 1" steerer, custom Straight bladed Steel, Aero Road 

The fact that it's a 1" threaded steerer tells you how OLD the frame is, or the design, at least.



*Crankset* SHIMANO FCA050C 39Tx50T BK Chainringx170MM ALLOY SILVER CRANK
*NOTE*: now coming with a Prowheel forged crankset instead of Shimano. Still has the plastic chainring guards

Of course. The Prowheel crank costs $1.50 versus $12 for the Shimano.




*Front Derailleur*SHIMANO FD-A050 BAND-TYPE 31.8MM FOR DOUBLE*Rear Derailleur*Shimano RD-A050 SMART 7-SPEED DIRECT ATTACHMENT *Shifters*NEW Shimano SL-SY20A-7 STEM-DOUBLE(FRONT FRICTION, REAR:7-SPEED SIS)*Freewheel*TOURNEY Freewheel, SHIMANO MF-TZ21 14-28T-7 *Chain*KMC Z51 1/2"*3/32"*114L 7-SP 

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Front derailleur is $5.95, rear derailleur is $8.95, shifters are $7.00, freewheel is $6, and chain is $5.50. Those are bike shop cost, though, so figure they pay about half of that. Also, note that they are stem shifters. Does Trek, Specialized, or Giant sell a road bike with stem shifters? ANY big-name bike that sells for the "Compare to" price will have - at minimum - Tourney STI shifters. So, no comparison.

Anyway, here are the rest of the specs for the "Dawes" (aka: 10 year old Fuji frame w/cheap crap components):


*Front / Rear Hub *Formula Aluminum Alloy Road, 36h / Formula Aluminum Alloy Road, 7-speed FreeWheel, 36H (black finish) *Spokes*14G Stainless Steel*Rims*SILVER Aluminum W/CNC SIDE WALL F/V clincher*Tires*Kenda Kwest, 700 X 28c, presta valve tubes*Brake Set*Single Pivot Wide Reach, ALLOY SILVER*Brake Levers*CS Road Aluminum*Headset*1inch dust sealed bearing*Handlebar*Aluminum Alloy Road, 410MM BAR BORE:25.4*Stem*Dawes Road Aluminum Quill, 0 DEG ,OD22.2, 
EXT:47CM 50CM=90,53CM 56CM=110 ,59CM 62CM= 130 LENGTH:150MM BARBORE:25.4mm*Tape/Grip*Custom cork wrap*Saddle*Anatomical with Cro-Moly rails *Seat Post*Dawes Comp Micro Adjust Aluminum, 27.2*Seat Clamp*Ultralite alloy, 31.8mm, Lazer etched*Sizes*42cm XSmall, 46cm Small, 50cm Medium, 54cm Large, 58cm XLarge

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Here's the KHS Flite 223. A steel, entry-level road bike. It sells for $659.




FrameCrMo Double butted w/carrier bossesForkCrMo Steerer/HI-Ten BladesHeadsetVP-T3E A-headset 5mmX2,10mmX1,20mmX1RimsWeinmann ZAC-1800, Double Wall w/CNC sidewallsHubs (F/R)Formula Alloy QR, RR: CassetteTiresCST Caldera, C1719, 700X25CSpokes14G Black 28 x 32Derailleur, FrontShimano 2403 Claris, 28.6mmDerailleur, RearShimano 2400GS ClarisShiftersShimano 2400 Triple ClarisChainKMC Z8 w/missing linkCranksetShimano FC-A073, Alloy 50/39/30 XS: 160, S-M: 170, L: 175BBCartridge BearingFreewheel / CassetteSram PG820 11-32 8-speedPedalsVP 992S w/steel cageSeatpostKHS Micro-adjust, SP-222P 300mm, 27.2SaddleKHS Padded Men's & Ladies SpecificHandlebarAlloy Drop 31.8 OS, PGStemAlloy 7 degree, 31.8 OSHandlebar tape/GripsCushion TapeBrake LeversShimano ST2400 ClarisBrakesPromax RC-483ColorMens: Team Red Ladies: Charcoal GreyFrame SizeMens:S:52, M:55, L:58 Ladies:XS:49, S:52

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So, you get 8 speed, STI levers, rims with a name on them, an actual cassette rather than a freewheel, a threadless 1-1/8" stem that will accept normal (31.8) bars instead of MTB-sized bars, a cartridge BB (the Dawes has a "partial cartridge" aka: loose-ball, adjustable), and brake calipers with a name on them. Sure, it isn't a great name, but it's better than "Single Pivot ALLOY" (like Alloy is a big deal. I suppose they could have been steel calipers from a Mongoose...)

So, there. We've "Compared to $695". Sure the Dawes is cheap - I won't deny that. But it isn't a $695 bike on any planet.


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## JCavilia (Sep 12, 2005)

Jwiffle said:


> Yep, that's what I'm getting at, I guess. If you can't trust their advertising, can you really trust their claims about the quality of their bikes? Like I said, their bikes as equipped are a decent price already, but it builds distrust when you see "puffery" or falsification in their advertising.
> 
> A few years ago several major retailers got into serious legal trouble for such "puffery." Jos A Banks was one I recall, as they always listed their own brand clothes at a sale price, and were never selling it at MSRP. Courts ruled they couldn't do that, as the sale price was in effect the msrp.


Did any court actually rule that way against Jos. A Bank? I know some class-action lawsuits were filed, but at least some were thrown out. Others may still be in process.

One lawsuit alleges a slightly different false-advertising claim against JAB. A sale offered "3 suits free when you buy one at the regular price," but the "regular price" you had to pay wasn't really "regular," because the suit was usually on sale for a third of that. So the deal, which looked like 4 for the price of 1 (or 75% off), was really more like 4 for the price of 3 (25% off). I don't think that one has been resolved yet.


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## junior1210 (May 2, 2013)

Jwiffle said:


> Yep, that's what I'm getting at, I guess. If you can't trust their advertising, can you really trust their claims about the quality of their bikes? Like I said, their bikes as equipped are a decent price already, but it builds distrust when you see "puffery" or falsification in their advertising.


I'm inclined to agree with you, but also keep in mind that most companies do a certain amount of exaggerating in their advertising. Remember the Ford F-150 commercials with a 4x4 F-150 going up the side of a mountain with another F-150 resting on the bed? How about the York Peppermint Patty commercials? I like YPPs, but they're not THAT good. Perhaps those Valtrex(? spelling) commercials might be stretching believability a little with the folks with herpes doing all the horseback riding and kayaking. 
They're trying to get you to buy their bikes, and that's their way of getting you to think in their direction. Anybody looking at their site who doubts the comparison price just has to Google "Trek" or "Giant" or whoever to see what the actual MSRPs really are (and can do a side by side comparison in the process).


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