# So I got my new Xero XR1 wheels today...



## dgangi (Sep 24, 2003)

Mr FedEx just showed up with my latest experiment -- a set of Xero XR1 wheels. My Fuji came stock with Ritchey Pro wheels ('03), which aren't the lightest wheels around (1820g). I've also struggled to keep the rear wheel in true, so when I found the Xero's on sale for $215, I decided to give them a try. The Xero's have a claimed weight of 1520g, which is 300g lighter than the Ritcheys (or 1/2 pound).

Now the Ritcheys will go on the wife's old Trek 5020, which has tbe stock (pre-Bontrager) tank non-aero wheelset. The Ritcheys will definitely be an improvement for her.

Attached are the "out of the box" photos. The build quality is rather impressive -- no "seams" in the machined sidewall that I can detect, nice black finish. I like the stickers - not too flashy, not too subdued. And dang these wheels are light!!

I'll post more pics when the wheels are on the bike.

Thx...Doug


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## whitebassbenny (Jul 27, 2004)

WOW nice i am looking at a new wheelset and the price is right  can we get pics of them on the bike  where u get them from ?


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## saccycling (Sep 30, 2004)

I have the xero xsr-2. I really like them. I had to true the rear wheel at 3700 miles but the front wheel seems to stay true, I just passed the 4000 mile on my bike, the sealed cartridge bearings are great. Good luck with your new rims. I think your going to really like them.


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## omniviper (Sep 18, 2004)

must... buy xr-1's... must buy xr'1s.... yes as i said, the xero's are one of if not the best in the bang for the buck category. congrats. im looking forward to getting mine in a few weeks.


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## dgangi (Sep 24, 2003)

*Pics of the wheels on the bike*

I got the wheels mounted up last night and took the bike for a quick spin around the block. The weight difference was immediately noticeable from the Ritchey's -- dang these are light. 

One comment - the freewheel is pretty loud (louder than the Ritchey's). I prefer a quiet freewheel, not a loud "clackety clackety" freewheel. This is my only gripe thus far.

These photos are from this morning. I like how the Xeros look on my bike - the color scheme matches too.

Thx...Doug


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## Duckman (Jul 21, 2005)

Your killing me. My new Neuvations cost $200 on Ebay. Same price and 200gms heavier(I got 2 LW Kenda tubes in the deal tho. 
Fwiw, I dunno if the hubs are the same, as the Neuvations are dead silent regarding the freewheel. Nothing. Nada. Not evev a faint sound. My Xero3s are loud in comparison. 

I also went to some 49gm Lunarlites, 200gm carbon comp tires for good measure. Big diff from the oem tubes and wire bead tires. 

<img src="http://www.fototime.com/ftweb/bin/ft.dll/standard?pictid={E881E965-5088-4DF1-A77C-99DA88B2E400}">


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## dgangi (Sep 24, 2003)

*I'm fairly certain the hubs are the same*



Duckman said:


> Your killing me. My new Neuvations cost $200 on Ebay. Same price and 200gms heavier(I got 2 LW Kenda tubes in the deal tho.
> Fwiw, I dunno if the hubs are the same, as the Neuvations are dead silent regarding the freewheel. Nothing. Nada. Not evev a faint sound. My Xero3s are loud in comparison.


From a few reputable sources I was told that both the Neuvations and Xeros use Formula hubs. Just look at the closeup photo of the hub and compare it to the Neuvations - they look identical.

The freewheel may be different between the brands, though.

I was going back and forth between the Neuvations and the Xeros and decided to take a chance on the Xeros primarily because of the 200g weight difference. The Neuvations were like 1750g, which is close to the weight of my Ritcheys. I figured if I was going to upgrade the wheelset, I might as well get something that is significantly lighter too. The 300g weight loss is very noticeable, especially on the front wheel. My bike just dropped down to under 17 pounds with pedals and cages...not too bad.

Thx...Doug


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## KMan (Feb 3, 2004)

*Where did you get them?*

Where did you find them at that price?

KMan



dgangi said:


> Mr FedEx just showed up with my latest experiment -- a set of Xero XR1 wheels. My Fuji came stock with Ritchey Pro wheels ('03), which aren't the lightest wheels around (1820g). I've also struggled to keep the rear wheel in true, so when I found the Xero's on sale for $215, I decided to give them a try. The Xero's have a claimed weight of 1520g, which is 300g lighter than the Ritcheys (or 1/2 pound).
> 
> Now the Ritcheys will go on the wife's old Trek 5020, which has tbe stock (pre-Bontrager) tank non-aero wheelset. The Ritcheys will definitely be an improvement for her.
> 
> ...


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## dgangi (Sep 24, 2003)

*Bought 'em here...*



KMan said:


> Where did you find them at that price?
> 
> KMan


I got them from a website called "BicycleWheels.com". I called the owner and its a shop out of Florida. When you read the blurb on the website about the wheelsets, he makes it sound like ALL of his wheels are hand made. That turns out not to be the case -- the Xero's are factory made and shipped without a human touching them. The good news is that the factory appears to know how to build wheels - these came out of the box 100% true.

I placed the order on a Thursday and the wheels arrived at my house in Phoenix by the following Thursday (ground shipping). That means the order shipped the same day, which is quick service.

The URL to the Xero's on the website is here:

http://shop.greatdealsonbikes.com/merchant.mv?Screen=CTGY&Store_Code=GDOB&Category_Code=RW

Shipping was a flat $20.

Thx...Doug


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## Ridgetop (Mar 1, 2005)

*Looks great.*

Thanks for posting the pics on the bike Doug. They look great. Let me know what you think after a few hundred miles. I'd really like to know. My wife (only weighs around 110) is riding a Specialized Roubaix with heavy Alex wheels and I'd really like to lighten them up a little. I'd like to know how they perform before I order them. They look and sound like a fantastic deal and she'd like the colors. Thanks!

Sean


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## HAL9000 (May 1, 2002)

Palm Springs or Arizona somewhere?


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## dgangi (Sep 24, 2003)

HAL9000 said:


> Palm Springs or Arizona somewhere?


Phoenix - Paradise Valley area to be exact...


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## Road cyclist (Jan 15, 2005)

Why don't you rework the rear hub
by applying just a little teflon grease to the pawls. 
I re-worked mine and sound-wise it is a world of difference.


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## dgangi (Sep 24, 2003)

Road cyclist said:


> Why don't you rework the rear hub
> by applying just a little teflon grease to the pawls.
> I re-worked mine and sound-wise it is a world of difference.


Good idea. How do I do it? I've never removed a free wheel before.

Thx...Doug


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## Road cyclist (Jan 15, 2005)

I am not familiar with your rear hub, I am assuming it
is pretty standard. 
Remove your cassette lock ring and take
your cassette off and slide it onto your cassette gear
retainer (plastic?).
Your freehub keyed spindle ( not sure about terminolgy)
will come off with a wrench. To properly torque it back down
I use a crow-foot wrench attached to a good torque wrench .
Anyway, remove the spindle body and you will see the 
inner gear teeth and spring-loaded pawls.
Study your directions. Some people warn against applying
anything but oil to this area, because they are worried about
pawls not staying engaged under load.
My Campy hub came with very little grease in this area and
the new-build bike sounded like a kid's 3-speed. A marginal
increase in grease in this area makes a big sound reduction
for me. Godd luck.


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## bundokbiker (Aug 6, 2005)

*just purchased the same rims*

from the same etailer same experience so far. the website seemed to indicate that the rims purchased there were handbuilt, but common sense told me otherwise. maybe you can order custom wheels from them.

I installed 18mm velox rim tape with specialized turbolite tubes and 23C specialized all conditions pro tires. I then proceeded to inflate to 20 psi to set the tube and then let out the air. everything seemed to be working well... i've installed many tires over the years (bmx, mtb, road, hybrid, ...). as I neared 100 psi the loud POP of a blown tube made me jump. the tire had blown off the rim.

It's midnight I'm tired, my tire install skills must be going... I install another tube and make sure the tire is centered on the rim. I even hold the rim up in the air with one hand so that the tire is not resting on the floor. No problem this time and I inflate to 120 psi. Time to install the front tire.

Same procedure, but I carefully watch for the tire to blow off. sure enough the tire starts to blow off the rim and I quickly let the air out before the blowout. it takes me 3 tries, but I get the tire to stay on the rim and inflate to 120 psi. I'm worried that the tires won't stay on, but decide that if they don't blow off overnight a morning ride will restore my confidence.

I'm all set for my morning ride, recheck my tire pressure and head out for a ride. as I sit on my front steps putting on my shoes... the rear tire blows off the rim. ride over before I get my shoes on.

Do I have a defective rim or tire? I've never had a tire/rim incompatibility and I've purchased some of the cheapest tires possible in the past. It does seem that the rim bead is a bit on the small side compared to the old Trek Matrix rims on the old bike. I have new rims that I'm scared to ride on. What do I do?


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## dgangi (Sep 24, 2003)

*Weird*



bundokbiker said:


> Do I have a defective rim or tire? I've never had a tire/rim incompatibility and I've purchased some of the cheapest tires possible in the past. It does seem that the rim bead is a bit on the small side compared to the old Trek Matrix rims on the old bike. I have new rims that I'm scared to ride on. What do I do?


I don't know anything about the Specialized tires. I tried putting 2 different sets of tires on my rims without incident: Vittoria Rubinos and Hutchinson Carbon Comps. I decided to keep the Vittorias on my bike and put the Hutchinsons on the wife's bike. Both tires aired up to 120psi without incident.

During the rim swap I compared the Ritchey Pro's to the Xero's. Both had a similar rim profile and both seemed to have the same size "lip". And as I suspected, my tires were just as difficult to install on the Xeros as they were on the Ritcheys.

Maybe your tires are bad? Not sure...but before sending the wheels back you might try another brand. I personally have had bad luck with other Specialized tires in the past.

Thx...Doug


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## dgangi (Sep 24, 2003)

*First ride - impressions*

I went on a moderate 53 mile ride this morning - first ride with the Xero's. Here are my impressions thus far...

Ride quality -- about the same as the Ritchey Pro's I replaced, which was stiff but never terrible.

Stiffness/handling -- a huge improvement over the Ritchey's, especially the front wheel. The Ritcheys were never scary flexy, but they would groan a bit in hard turns and let you know they didn't like all the stress. The Xeros are FAR more rigid and handle much better. I came down a twisty hill at 35+ mph and the Xeros held up great.

Rolling resistance -- another improvement over the Ritcheys. My brother-in-law used to "out coast" me with the Ritcheys, probably due to resistance inside the hubs. The Xero's roll faster, and today I "out coasted" my brother-in-law on the same hill (same tires BTW).

Looks - just damn cool.  Got a few comments on them. I never got comments on the Ritcheys.

Braking -- much better than the Richeys ever were. I noticed the machined sidewall had a slightly different surface than the Ritcheys. Regardless of why this is, the Xero's braked much better (same pads BTW).


During the first 10 miles of the ride the spokes made an occasional "tink tink" sound as they settled in. I assume this is normal as I have heard other wheels do this when new. After the 10 miles the spokes made no more sounds for the remaining 40+ miles.

All in all these seem to be a great performing wheel. They are certainly an improvement over the Ritcheys, but I have no idea how they compare to the high end wheels made by Mavic, American Classic, Easton, or Shimano because I have never ridden their road wheels. Regardless, if you want high performance wheels on a budget, I don't think there is a better choice than the Xeros.

How will these wheels hold up? Who knows. The build quality *looks* good, but that can be misleading. I will report back in 6-12 months after banging these around some more and let you know if I am still happy or not...

Thx...Doug


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## bundokbiker (Aug 6, 2005)

*I think you're right about the tires*



dgangi said:


> Maybe your tires are bad? Not sure...but before sending the wheels back you might try another brand. I personally have had bad luck with other Specialized tires in the past.


Thanks Doug. Makes me feel better that you just completed a ride on the XR1s. the tires are brand new and I'm taking them back to the shop. I just installed old tires from the other bike and they seem to be holding on to the rim. the bead on the specialized tires do seem a bit lean even compared to the old crappy kenda kencepts that were sitting around. I guess I just ran into a tire/rim incompatibility.

I think I'll be happy with the wheels and will post final results.


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## dgangi (Sep 24, 2003)

*One more ride...*

Today I took my bike on a 60-miler that involved a LOT of climbing. The last 5 miles are in the national forest on steep mountain grades with very sharp curves (15mph).

The section I was most interested in was the last 5 miles. The old Ritcheys would always groan heavily on the sharp 15mph banked turns (because of the flex in the front wheel) and I would back off to keep the bike happy. Today the Xero's gave me absolutely no hint of flex -- throughout the sharp curves they didn't make a peep, and the bike tracked true.

I have now proven to myself that these Xero's are damn strong. I'm not a heavy guy (150lbs), but I do ride the bike hard and could easily get my Ritcheys to flex. Not with the Xeros.

Ok - now for the hill climbing. Did the Xero's make me any faster going UP the hills? Not detectably. The 300g of weight that I lost didn't seem to make a bit of difference on the climbs. Now maybe if I was in a race it might make a wee bit of difference, but on a group ride I didn't feel a thing. But that's ok - I didn't expect the 300g of difference to make a difference uphill. 

How about aerodynamics? The Xeros are much deeper in profile to the Ritcheys, so I should have less wind resistance and ride faster, right? Nah. Maybe on a time trial I might gain a few seconds with the deep dish profile of the Xeros over the Ritcheys, but again in a group ride setting I couldn't detect much.

Moral to the story -- the Xero's beat the Ritchey's in stiffness hands down. They are also 300g lighter, both of which contribute to far superior handling. But other than that, there really isn't much "real world" difference between the two.

2nd moral to the story -- I honestly can't see why anybody would spend upwards of $750 on a wheelset UNLESS they are serious racers or into bike jewelry. At $250 or less, the Xeros are an outright bargain. Anything "better" will cost 2-3x more and only be marginally lighter and better (if that). So if you are not hung up on a brand name and want a good lightweight wheelset for your bike, this is an obvious choice IMHO.

I still can't speak for longevity. When I am at 1K miles I will post my official review. Hopefully I won't be singing a different song by then... 

Thx...Doug


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## bundokbiker (Aug 6, 2005)

*another set of tires...*

and the same result. this time I purchased a set of vittorias and they also blew off the rim as the pressure approached 100 psi. I took out my calipers to check the side-wall to side-wall width and instead found out that the machined portion of the rim is not parallel... they actually flare out.

Is this normal? It does explain why the rim is not hooking up with the tire bead. I'm not able to ride my bike and now I'm out of tubes. It's a bit frustrating and I problem I've never encountered.

dgangi - do you have set of calipers? pretty hard to eyeball it if you don't. are the machined portion of your rims parallel? Thanks.


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## dgangi (Sep 24, 2003)

*No problems here...*



bundokbiker said:


> and the same result. this time I purchased a set of vittorias and they also blew off the rim as the pressure approached 100 psi. I took out my calipers to check the side-wall to side-wall width and instead found out that the machined portion of the rim is not parallel... they actually flare out.
> 
> Is this normal? It does explain why the rim is not hooking up with the tire bead. I'm not able to ride my bike and now I'm out of tubes. It's a bit frustrating and I problem I've never encountered.
> 
> dgangi - do you have set of calipers? pretty hard to eyeball it if you don't. are the machined portion of your rims parallel? Thanks.


Sorry - no calipers in my garage. I've had the wheels on the bike for 120 miles now with no problems. Unfortunately I've had 3 flats in those miles, and each time the tires were aired up to 120psi. The tires have held fast to the rims thus far.

Thx...Doug


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## carlos (May 26, 2004)

xero wheels are very very popular among "elite" racers here in brazil, its a light, cheap and strong wheelset. i have never seem people bad mouthing this wheels, just good things.


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## bundokbiker (Aug 6, 2005)

*I'm not trying bad mouth the wheelset*



carlos said:


> xero wheels are very very popular among "elite" racers here in brazil, its a light, cheap and strong wheelset. i have never seem people bad mouthing this wheels, just good things.


Apologies if I'm coming across as too negative, that's not my intention. I'm just trying to get an idea why my experience with them is not the same as others on this thread. I'm sure they are great wheels especially for the price. If anyone has answers for me I'd like to start riding them. 

I'll restate my experience.

-- received wheels shortly after placing order
-- wheels were true out the box, fit and finish was good 
-- used velox rim tape and specialized ultralite tubes
-- first set of new tires (specialized) blew off the rim at high pressure
-- second set of tires (vittorias) blew off the rim. i'm out 4 tubes.
-- noticed that the rim walls (machined section) are not parallel, they flare out slightly

It seems the last point would be the cause. or am I wrong?


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## KeeponTrekkin (Aug 29, 2002)

*Wow... Frustrating..*



bundokbiker said:


> Apologies if I'm coming across as too negative, that's not my intention. I'm just trying to get an idea why my experience with them is not the same as others on this thread. I'm sure they are great wheels especially for the price. If anyone has answers for me I'd like to start riding them.
> 
> I'll restate my experience.
> 
> ...


I think lots of rims have slightly flared walls (thicker at the base and thinner at the edge, with outside walls parallel) so I'm not inclined to suspect that's the problem.

Not all tires and rims fit together well. I have tires that mount as easily as bedroom slippers and I have tires that must be wrestled like alligators. I've never had one blow off though. I'd be inclined to measure the diameter at the rim of these new wheels and compare to other wheels you have. If measuring is difficult, try standing them vertically on a hard level surface and placing a level accross the top. I'd also mount those suspicious tires on other wheels and see what happens.


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## Dave Hickey (Jan 27, 2002)

Where on the rim are the tires blowing off? 

If it at the valve hole, try this. Insert the valve stem only about halfway into the hole. Don't tighten the valve stem down until the tube is partially inflated. Once the tube has air and is round, tighten the stem. 

With narrow rims, if you crank down on the valve stem, the tube lays flat and gets in the way of the tire seating properly on the rim...


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## axebiker (Aug 22, 2003)

I had some Xero XR4's. I was smitten until my first ride. The dustcover on the front wheeel worked itself off a number of times on the first ride, so I took them home and rebuilt the hub. Rode them again. Same thing. It REALLY soured my experience with them. I sold the bike they were on though, so no biggie. 

I rode them about 60 miles, and other then the dustcap problem, I had NO complaints. I got the XR4's because they have a few more spokes, and I was only using them as training wheels on my second bike. They did look cool, and after I got them adjusted correctly, they rolled well. I did like the fact they were NOT cartridge bearing, so they were user serviceable. 

I got mine off eBay for $125 brand new in the box. I didn't have much in the way of real expectations for them, but they were okay for the two rides I had on them minus the little issue I had with them.


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## dgangi (Sep 24, 2003)

*Different wheel altogether*



axebiker said:


> I had some Xero XR4's. I was smitten until my first ride. The dustcover on the front wheeel worked itself off a number of times on the first ride, so I took them home and rebuilt the hub. Rode them again. Same thing. It REALLY soured my experience with them. I sold the bike they were on though, so no biggie.
> 
> I rode them about 60 miles, and other then the dustcap problem, I had NO complaints. I got the XR4's because they have a few more spokes, and I was only using them as training wheels on my second bike. They did look cool, and after I got them adjusted correctly, they rolled well. I did like the fact they were NOT cartridge bearing, so they were user serviceable.
> 
> I got mine off eBay for $125 brand new in the box. I didn't have much in the way of real expectations for them, but they were okay for the two rides I had on them minus the little issue I had with them.


From what I understand, the XR1 wheels are a completely different wheel than the XR3's (which are completely different than the XR4's). Even though the names are similar, the wheels have very different parts, which should lead to very different handling characteristics. The XR3's and XR1's have similar spoke count and hub, but different rim. The XR4's have entirely different hubs, spoke count, and rim.

I have no idea why these models share a similar name. One would think something would be in common between all of the "XR" wheels (like the hub and spoke count), but that isn't the case. Pretty silly of the manufacturer, IMHO.

Oh well, regardless of how dumb the branding seems to be from Xero, I still like the XR1 wheels. I can't speak for any of their other wheels.

Thx...Doug


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## Duckman (Jul 21, 2005)

The 1s are not the same hub as my XR3s. The 3s are almost the same as the 4s. Just diff front spoke count I think. 20 vs 24 I think. Not much diff other then that best I've been able to tell. 

Agree, the 1s are better hubs, spokes, and rims...compared to the 3s and 4s.


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## bundokbiker (Aug 6, 2005)

*I found a tire that does not blow-off*

First to answer some questions. 
1. I agree with KeeponTrekkin, the flaring of the rims is NOT an issue. It was a stretch when I mentioned it.
2. Tire was NOT blowing off at the valve, everywhere else but that location.
3. As suggested, I did the test with a level on a glass surface and there's aprox 1mm difference in diameter compared to my old rim. putting a penny between top of rim and level made things even. (not very precise)
4. Mounting tires, by hand no levers, on the XR-1 is very easy. Much harder to do so on the old rims. Must be that diameter diff I noticed
5. Mounted same tires on my other rims (1992 Trek Matrix) and they did NOT blow-off. 

Here's my update.
--I found two tires that don't blow-off. Kenda Koncept 23C wire bead, Conti Ultra 2000 23C wire bead.
--Tires that did blow-off. Specialized All Conditions Pro 23C kevlar bead, Vitorria Action HSD 23C kevler bead.
--It seems the cheap ass, heavy, unfoldable tires seem to work for me

BTW I've been in contact with the etailer and he's been responsive and helpful. Even was willing to take back the rims, but I plan on keeping them and finding additional tires that fit.

Can those of you who own the XR-1 please post the tires you're using? If I can find any of them at my LBS I'll give them a try. Thanks everyone for your help.

The rims are light, look great, and worked great on the short ride I took. I did not ride aggressively, so I'll defer ride quality to the earlier posts.


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## dgangi (Sep 24, 2003)

bundokbiker said:


> Can those of you who own the XR-1 please post the tires you're using? If I can find any of them at my LBS I'll give them a try. Thanks everyone for your help.


I was able to mount the following on the XR1's:

Vittoria Rubino Pro (kevlar bead)
Hutchinson Carbon Comps (kevlar bead)

Both tires were a moderately tight fit -- I had to use the tire levers to get the last wee bit of tire on the rim.

In comparison to the Ritchey Pro's, these wheels are about the same in terms of difficulty to mount tires on.

In comparison to Aurora Matrix wheels on my wife's old Trek (circa 1998), the XR1's are far easier. It was a nightmare mounting tires on the Auroras.

Thx...Doug


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## divve (May 3, 2002)

I think it would be far more sensible to exchange your wheels. Perhaps, you simply got an out of spec set. It's completely ridiculous to have to go out on some scavenger hunt in order to find tires that don't blow off your rims. You should be able to choose tires on the bases of your riding and performance preferences. Lastly, and most importantly, I wouldn't feel safe riding on those wheels.



bundokbiker said:


> First to answer some questions.
> 1. I agree with KeeponTrekkin, the flaring of the rims is NOT an issue. It was a stretch when I mentioned it.
> 2. Tire was NOT blowing off at the valve, everywhere else but that location.
> 3. As suggested, I did the test with a level on a glass surface and there's aprox 1mm difference in diameter compared to my old rim. putting a penny between top of rim and level made things even. (not very precise)
> ...


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## Dave Hickey (Jan 27, 2002)

This is my problem with these inexpensive wheels or the $1200 "all Ultegra" wonderbikes. Quality control is not a good. If you happen to get a good set or bike, great but there appears to a lot defects. 

I had a pair of older Xero wheels and the Formula hubs where ok but the freehub was absolute junk. It never worked well and was constantly coming loose.

I'm not suggesting that Mavic K's or other high zoot wheels are worth $800+ but trying to compare a $200 wheelset to higher end wheels is crazy. There is more to good wheels than weight. 

I think it was Bontrager that said "light, strong, cheap; pick two" How true is that.......


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## dscottj (Aug 8, 2005)

Dave Hickey said:


> I'm not suggesting that Mavic K's or other high zoot wheels are worth $800+ but trying to compare a $200 wheelset to higher end wheels is crazy. There is more to good wheels than weight.


Considering you can buy a set of *custom made* wheels from well-regarded builders for perhaps a hundred dollars more than these, I would submit payiing much more than $400 for *any* wheels is crazy. There's more to good wheels, after all, than a name.

Furthermore, considering the cost savings of mass production and less expensive labor, I would perhaps speculate the quality difference between a very well made $250 wheelset and an $400 custom wheelset may be closer than those who've paid $800 for a name may be comfortable admitting. 

I'm not saying those who've paid high zoot prices for high zoot wheels got taken. Just that, like wine, it's quite possible to fine very high quality wheels for quite low prices, if you know where to look.


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## dgangi (Sep 24, 2003)

Dave Hickey said:


> This is my problem with these inexpensive wheels or the $1200 "all Ultegra" wonderbikes. Quality control is not a good. If you happen to get a good set or bike, great but there appears to a lot defects.
> 
> I had a pair of older Xero wheels and the Formula hubs where ok but the freehub was absolute junk. It never worked well and was constantly coming loose.
> 
> ...


I'm not sure you can make a generalization that "quality control is not good" with the so-called $1200 Ultegra wonderbikes or these inexpensive wheels.

The Xero wheels at $225 were damn cheap, but cheap compared to what? American Classic 350's retail for $500+ and I see plenty of quality control issues with those (lots of bad posts here). Spinergy wheels cost $$$$ and are notorious for high rates of failure. Many Shimano wheels are known for failures. Even the beloved Mavic Ksyriums are known for having issues. So how is it that the Xero's have a build quality worse than more expensive wheels? I don't see it.

Now to be fair, I have no history with the Xero's (only 200 mi now) so I have no clue how well these will hold up. But out of the box these wheels were 100% true and the fit/finish was superb. I was truly impressed.

On another note, many would classify my bike as an "Ultegra wonderbike" (check the photos above - it's a Fuji). I paid $995 at my local Cycle Spectrum (Bikes Direct) and it's given me 4000 trouble free miles so far. The quality of my bike is as good than the Cannondales, Specialized, and Treks my friends ride (BTW - 2 other friends of mine bought Fujis after I did and their bikes have been 100% trouble free too).

BTW - why does a wheelset cost $800+ anyway? Are they made of gold? IMHO more "expensive" wheelsets are priced the way they are because of name brand premium. I'll bet a Mavic wheel doesn't cost much more (if any) to manufacture than these Xero's...it's just that the Xero's don't carry a brand premium. The other poster nailed it when he said a $400 custom wheelset is the best way to go. I would have gone custom myself, but I didn't have the time to wait so I figured I would give these wheels a try. So far I'm glad I did.

Thx...Doug


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## Dave Hickey (Jan 27, 2002)

Doug, I'm not saying there is anything wrong with your bike. It looks like a great deal and I'm sure it is just as good(better?) as *similar priced * offerings from other companies. As for $800+ wheelsets, I've never bought one. All my bikes have Dura Ace or Ultegra hubs laced to Open pro's or Velocity rims...The most I've paid for a wheelset is $325.00

All I'm trying to say is let's compare apples to apples.


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## dgangi (Sep 24, 2003)

Dave Hickey said:


> Doug, I'm not saying there is anything wrong with your bike. It looks like a great deal and I'm sure it is just as good(better?) as *similar priced *offerings from other companies. As for $800+ wheelsets, I've never bought one. All my bikes have Dura Ace or Ultegra hubs laced to Open pro's or Velocity rims...The most I've paid for a wheelset is $325.00
> 
> All I'm trying to say is let's compare apples to apples.


Not sure how comparisons got into this discussion...I never made any. In fact a quote from my earlier post is as follows:

_All in all these seem to be a great performing wheel. They are certainly an improvement over the Ritcheys, but I have no idea how they compare to the high end wheels made by Mavic, American Classic, Easton, or Shimano because I have never ridden their road wheels. Regardless, if you want high performance wheels on a budget, I don't think there is a better choice than the Xeros.
_
All I commented on was my experience with the Xeros and my old Ritcheys. So far the Xero's have been everything I hoped for, and given how they perform I honestly don't think I would notice much difference (if any) on a "high end" wheel -- especially enough to warrant spending any more money.

I've been around a while and understand enough about the cycling world to be dangerous. The truth is that most "top end" components of any type are not worth the extra $$ unless you are a sponsored racer who makes a living from cycling or just want bike jewelry. My MTB has AC disc hubs laced to Velocity rims -- bought them for $350 from Odds and Endos. They are every bit as good as the $1000 Mavic CrossMax SL wheels that I wanted to buy initially (actually, they are probably better because they are serviceable).

As I said in my last post, I was going to go with a set of road wheels from Mike Garcia but I did not want to wait 2-3 weeks to get them. I was originally set on AC 350's but did a little homework and found these Xero wheels. I still can't speak for the longevity of the Xeros, but in terms of performance they are every bit as good as I (an amateur racer) can ask for. 

My reason for starting this thread was not to bash any other wheel -- I merely wanted to share my experience to help others who are finding these Xero wheels and thinking "Are they any good?". Now at least they have more information than just a marketing pitch from the seller.

Thx...Doug


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## divve (May 3, 2002)

I'm not into system wheels, but happen to have a pair of CostMax SL disc wheels for the Lefty. I don't see anything particular about them that makes them unserviceable. My LBS sells spare spokes and rims if you need them. With the proper tools they build up just like any other wheel. They're also the lightest still solid UST option available. Unlike with road wheels, you can't get a decent UST rim that's as reliable and in the same weight class.

.....AC hubs.....just laughable quality and bad track record.


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## dgangi (Sep 24, 2003)

divve said:


> I'm not into system wheels, but happen to have a pair of CostMax SL disc wheels for the Lefty. I don't see anything particular about them that makes them unserviceable. My LBS sells spare spokes and rims if you need them. With the proper tools they build up just like any other wheel. They're also the lightest still solid UST option available. Unlike with road wheels, you can't get a decent UST rim that's as reliable and in the same weight class.
> 
> .....AC hubs.....just laughable quality and bad track record.


Proprietary = unserviceable (in many areas). A buddy of mine snapped a spoke in Utah on his CostMax (LOL) and was SOL when the only LBS in a 50 mile radius didn't have a spoke to fit. I wasn't too worried about priopetary parts on a road wheel since you rarely break anything on them. But for the MTB wheelset, that's a totally different story (especially when you crash a lot like I do  )

I trusted Mike Garcia's opinion of the AC hubs when he built my wheels for the MTB. They have a few thousand miles on them plus many nasty crashes and they are rolling along fine (even after a total taco of my front wheel from an endo caused by a bad landing). Supposedly I got the "post-crap" AC hubs. Mike told me about some "fix" AC made to the prawl in the freehub on my model.

I decided not to buy the AC 350 wheels because of what I read about AC hubs. Had I known then what I know now, I would have probably spent a few extra dollars and gotten King hubs instead when I had my custom MTB wheels built. Kings are pricey and noisy but damn are they reliable. 

Does anybody put King hubs on road wheels?

Thx...Doug


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## DSR (Oct 10, 2002)

I just picked up a pair of the XR1s and put some Ritchey Race Slick Pros on no problem. Only put a couple of miles on them on the way home from work. Definitely lighter and more aero than my old wheels - Cosmos. Some "plinking" on the front wheel, but I assume that'll work itself out after a few more miles. Otherwise seem great. Not much of a review, but at least there's another tire that fits on them no problem. S


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## TWD (Feb 9, 2004)

*Rim Tape*

In one of your previous posts you mentioned installing 18mm wide Velox rim tape. 

According to Xero's website, it looks like the rim is only 18.6 mm wide (outside to outside), 16 mm from center of sidewall, and 13.6 mm from the inside of the "hooks" (but the picture is so small it's hard to read). 

It's possible that your rim tape might be too wide for the rims. Velox tape is rather thick as well, so if the rim tape is wide enough that it extends up to near where the tire bead seats to the rim, or the rim tape isn't perfectly straight it could be causing your trouble since the tire bead my not be able to settle deep enough into the rim to seat well. 

I'd say give another brand of rim strip a try, or use a narrower width of the velox tape to see if it improves the situation. 

At least it would be cheaper to experiment with different rim tape than it would be to buy a bunch of new tires.


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## dgangi (Sep 24, 2003)

*Good catch*



TWD said:


> In one of your previous posts you mentioned installing 18mm wide Velox rim tape.
> 
> According to Xero's website, it looks like the rim is only 18.6 mm wide (outside to outside), 16 mm from center of sidewall, and 13.6 mm from the inside of the "hooks" (but the picture is so small it's hard to read).
> 
> ...


Nice catch. Maybe that's the other poster's problem with these wheels?? I used the "narrow" Velox rim tape on my rims, which is 10mm wide (I think) and I have had no issues with mounting tires. Velox rim tape comes in 10mm (narrow), 16mm (med), and 22mm (MTB) widths.

When I put the tape on the rim, the tape was wide enough to cover the holes but not so wide that it went up the sides of the rims. 

Thx...Doug


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## bundokbiker (Aug 6, 2005)

TWD said:


> In one of your previous posts you mentioned installing 18mm wide Velox rim tape.


I originally surmised that the 18mm tape might be a problem and listed what I was using, someone finally caught onto it. One of the first things I checked the was the mfg's website and it recommends 18mm rimtape. Unless it's a typo, I don't think this is something that could get lost in the translation. the tape does seem a bit wide inside the rim, but doesn't look to interfere with the rim hook. I also tried using strapping tape instead of the velox tape since it's thinner and narrow... same result.

Supergo Santa Monica did take back the two sets of tires that were not compatible, so I'm not out any money. The wheels ride fine in my very humble opinion, but I can't tell the difference in ride quality between a friend's borrowed Rolf wheels and these budget XR1s... therefore why spend big bucks and I'm willing to experiment on budget wheels.

The mfg did return my email and asked for a photo, so I'm going to oblige them when I get home from work. I now inspect the tire beads when I'm at the LBS and wire beads seem to have much more material where it's needed. 

I took out my budget calipers (which are only accurate to 1mm, anything smaller has to be approximated... I can eyeball accurately to .25mm) and the wheels seem to be within spec, given the simple tools I have.

Maybe it's a lot of small factors between rim and tire coming into play, not one glaring one. rim/tire diameter, hook/bead shape and size, rim tape a bit too wide/thick, ... That's my current conclusion since some tires work and others don't. I'm keeping an open mind. I'm able to ride them with the Contis, so I'm not frustrated anymore. If I get over 2350 miles out of them I'll be happy (10 cents a mile). Although I'll probably get over 8000 miles out of a pair of Rolf wheels and go under my 10 cent barrier. If nothing else, I'm learning a few things from all the input.


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## divve (May 3, 2002)

You have to also factor in tire aging due to use. After some mileage tires typically are far easier to install an remove from a given rim, including wire beads. While your current situation may appear to function properly, it can suddenly change. In my opinion you're riding a time bomb and you're unnecessarily exposing yourself to an increased risk of a sudden tire blow off.


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## bundokbiker (Aug 6, 2005)

*Agreed!*



divve said:


> You have to also factor in tire aging due to use. After some mileage tires typically are far easier to install an remove from a given rim, including wire beads. While your current situation may appear to function properly, it can suddenly change. In my opinion you're riding a time bomb and you're unnecessarily exposing yourself to an increased risk of a sudden tire blow off.


divve - now that you mention it, that's something I hadn't yet thought of. If new tires are easy to mount by hand at this point in time, a few miles and several patched tubes later and there's a possibility they may not hold onto the rim. Although, the Kenda Koncepts are old tires and have been riden for many miles, did hold for a ride.


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## 80z28s6 (Feb 10, 2005)

*Lovin my set!!!*

I bought a pair off ebay sometime in april. My heavy arse of 210lbs and they are holding up beautifully. Duckman should have no gripes. He posted his new ride when he got it at the weight weenie forum on mtbr. I let him in on them then so nener nener!!!!!!


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## PaulCL (Jan 29, 2000)

*210 lbs !!*



80z28s6 said:


> I bought a pair off ebay sometime in april. My heavy arse of 210lbs and they are holding up beautifully. Duckman should have no gripes. He posted his new ride when he got it at the weight weenie forum on mtbr. I let him in on them then so nener nener!!!!!!


210lbs on a 20 spoke rear wheel??? How many miles do you have on these. I"m in the market for a new wheelset, but have really hesitated with a 20 spoke rear wheel since I weight 185-190.


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## gregario (Nov 19, 2001)

*same boat*



PaulCL said:


> 210lbs on a 20 spoke rear wheel??? How many miles do you have on these. I"m in the market for a new wheelset, but have really hesitated with a 20 spoke rear wheel since I weight 185-190.


i'm in the same boat. I want to buy a new set of fancy wheels but not spend an arm and a leg. I'm looking at the Xero's and Neuvations. I weigh 185#. I'm hearing good things about both brands but I think the Xero's are significantly lighter. I contacted a seller of Xero's, www.bicyclewheels.com and the response from a guy there was that he was 220# and uses them with no problems. I leaning towards the Xero's right now.


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## 80z28s6 (Feb 10, 2005)

gregario said:


> i'm in the same boat. I want to buy a new set of fancy wheels but not spend an arm and a leg. I'm looking at the Xero's and Neuvations. I weigh 185#. I'm hearing good things about both brands but I think the Xero's are significantly lighter. I contacted a seller of Xero's, www.bicyclewheels.com and the response from a guy there was that he was 220# and uses them with no problems. I leaning towards the Xero's right now.


I've got a couple hundred miles on them about 300miles since I got them. Still true and straight. Yea I weighed myself the other night and I was 209. I know I was a bit heavier back then. Probably around 220. Also mine came in at 1519g on my scale.



This is a pic when I was finishing building it up. I need to get an updated one. Its an old ross cromoly frame that weighed 26 lbs got it down to 19.75 lbs.


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## omniviper (Sep 18, 2004)

i dunno... i just got my xero's a week ago and it seems that there is something caught in there. As much as I try to sprint, it seems like there's soemthing wrong with the bearings or whatever, like there's added resistance or something... plus, these wheels almost felt like they were going to taco when i hit a pothole decending (not that I was trying to hit it anyway)


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