# New hakkalugi disc



## kiwisimon (Oct 30, 2002)

Finally IBIS delivers, this will be a very popular ride on circuits soon.
http://www.ibiscycles.com/bikes/hakkalugi_disc/


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## limba (Mar 10, 2004)

Very nice. Hmmm, get one of these or a Super X this year or wait another year for better discs? Hmmmm...


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## Zen Cyclery (Mar 10, 2009)

I need to find a reliable hydraulic setup before this becomes an option, but this is a gorgeous rig.


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## Nevermiss (Jun 7, 2011)

At 6'4" and 230 lbs., I'm tough on equipment. I had high hopes for my Foundry Auger disc frame and built it with Zipp Service Course SL, CK hubs laced to HED C2 rims, and Ultegra Di2. 30 minutes into my second race of the season I snapped the brake side seat stay 

My hakkalugi disc is inbound and I should have it built by next week Hopefully this frame will be more durable.


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## atpjunkie (Mar 23, 2002)

white plus mud = dead sexy


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## Ride-Fly (Mar 27, 2002)

Zen Cyclery said:


> I need to find a reliable hydraulic setup before this becomes an option, but this is a gorgeous rig.


Will there be that much an advantage from hydraulic over mechanical discs in CX? I don't have any experience with discs, even on my MTBs as I opted to go with V-brakes on my XC bike. I've read that the best current crop of mechanical discs are just as good as the hydraulic discs and if that is true, I 'd rather go with mechanicals (don't know a thing about bleeding brakes and such). 

Also, is the Avid BB7s the current best mechanical or are there others that are better?


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## Crank-a-Roo (Mar 21, 2003)

Hydraulic disk brakes don't require much maintenance because they use fluid power to activate the clipper. there is no adjustments or stretching of the brake cables.


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## OnTheRivet (Sep 3, 2004)

Ride-Fly said:


> Will there be that much an advantage from hydraulic over mechanical discs in CX? I don't have any experience with discs, even on my MTBs as I opted to go with V-brakes on my XC bike. I've read that the best current crop of mechanical discs are just as good as the hydraulic discs and if that is true, I 'd rather go with mechanicals (don't know a thing about bleeding brakes and such).
> 
> Also, is the Avid BB7s the current best mechanical or are there others that are better?


Mechanicals are pointless. I won't be going to disc until hydraulics work and I can build a 16lb bike for 3000.00. Until then I'll keep racing (and winning) on my trusty rim brake bike.


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## Ride-Fly (Mar 27, 2002)

OnTheRivet said:


> Mechanicals are pointless. I won't be going to disc until hydraulics work and I can build a 16lb bike for 3000.00. Until then I'll keep racing (and winning) on my trusty rim brake bike.


why are they pointless? don't the current best mechanicals provide good modulation and power? i've read the major complaints with past mechanicals were that they were squishy and didn't modulate well but the current crop doesn't suffer from that according to all the mags. the main reason i'm not sure about the hydraulics is that you have to have special levers. current campy levers wouldn't work and the levers i saw that were made for hydraulic campy discs were atrocious looking.


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## J-K (Nov 5, 2006)

The current cable actuated disc brakes are OK, but, judged by what is currently offered for MTB's, the stopping power and modulation can be improved greatly by going fully hydraulic.

Just take a look at the XTR brakes of now. It's a tiny brake lever you have to actuate and it's all you need. The current cable disc brakes still require a lot of hand force. Much less than canti's, but still, a lot.

I foresee a complete redesign of the brake/shift lever. The current offerings all have a very long lever. Those will get smaller and in time you might see a redesign of bar shape too, because those are all designed for the current brake/shift lever lengths and setup.

Things will change! Be afraid you dirt-converted roadie traditionalists ;-).


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## jroden (Jun 15, 2004)

OnTheRivet said:


> Mechanicals are pointless. I won't be going to disc until hydraulics work and I can build a 16lb bike for 3000.00. Until then I'll keep racing (and winning) on my trusty rim brake bike.


I had a disc bike a while back and found that under hard pedaling the disc made an audible rubbing against the pads. With the mechanicals I had the ability to adjust the width of the pads, but it was still an issue, maybe just mental because it sounded slow.

I think with the mechanical brakes you give up about a pound. Maybe it cancels out on a muddy day with less accumulation and better braking.


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## J-K (Nov 5, 2006)

jroden said:


> I had a disc bike a while back and found that under hard pedaling the disc made an audible rubbing against the pads. With the mechanicals I had the ability to adjust the width of the pads, but it was still an issue, maybe just mental because it sounded slow.


This issue will exist with any disc brake and flexy QR / hub / fork dropouts interface. Chances are this could have been solved with a better and more tight QR. For this reason, once disc brakes get popular in CX and road, we will probably see some QR15 like oversized axle construction too.


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## klook (Jul 21, 2010)

Nevermiss said:


> At 6'4" and 230 lbs., I'm tough on equipment. I had high hopes for my Foundry Auger disc frame and built it with Zipp Service Course SL, CK hubs laced to HED C2 rims, and Ultegra Di2. 30 minutes into my second race of the season I snapped the brake side seat stay
> 
> My hakkalugi disc is inbound and I should have it built by next week Hopefully this frame will be more durable.


Looking forward to hearing your opinion on this frame, especially the geometry. 
Looks a little relaxed in the head tube but that might give a little more stability on fast gravel grinding descents. 
Looks very nice.


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## sslos (Aug 11, 2003)

Looks like a nice bike, but I gotta say that I sure did lust after the original steel Haakalugis...

Los


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## Erik_A (Sep 14, 2008)

Is this $1500 IBIS frameset going to perform better than a $550 Chinese version? 

http://forums.roadbikereview.com/cyclocross/cyclocross-specific-chinese-carbon-287854.html

(other than the sweet white paint... which honestly makes me want one)


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## kiwisimon (Oct 30, 2002)

Erik_A said:


> Is this $1500 IBIS frameset going to perform better than a $550 Chinese version?


In terms of power to weight ratio? No, as Lance so famously stated "it's not about the bike" In terms of full after sales support and quality control, absolutely. Ibis customer service beats just about anything out there. But if you want a hand job with that Hakka keep looking or talk nicely to your LBS.


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## AndreyT (Dec 1, 2011)

Someone got it backwards.

Hydraulics are pointless. They make sense as a technological curiosity, a proof-of-concept (i.e. simply showing that "it can be done"), but have no real practical value beyond that. There's simply no reason for anything beyond mechanical discs. Mechanical discs already overkill everything that can possibly be done, and overkill it with quite a margin to spare.

Also, there's no such thing as "cable stretch". "Cable stretch" is an accepted jargon term that stands for various deteriorating changes in mechanical brake setups, which are not really caused by any actual stretching of the cable. Steel cable doesn't stretch. Most of the time "cable stretch" is caused either compression of mediocre quality brake cable housing or distortion of low quality housing end caps (aka "ferrules"). Both are ailments of chap/chaep-ish OEM setups, which are easily alleviated for good by using higher grade components.


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## atpjunkie (Mar 23, 2002)

*you mean*



sslos said:


> Looks like a nice bike, but I gotta say that I sure did lust after the original steel Haakalugis...
> 
> Los


these silly old things?

two have recently sold on ebay


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## alias33 (Sep 15, 2008)

I agree, with the mechanical brake setup you get just the right amount of power without the weight and complexity of hydros. And with a smaller width tire of a cyclocross bike versus the wider heavier mountain bike tire, the power exerted on such a small light contact patch would almost be hard to modulate with certain setups. The feel and reduced maintenance would be nice but the power and modulation would be a questionable addition.


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## sslos (Aug 11, 2003)

atpjunkie said:


> these silly old things?
> 
> two have recently sold on ebay


Drool worthy, especially the Belgian paint!

Los


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## atpjunkie (Mar 23, 2002)

*Thanks*



sslos said:


> Drool worthy, especially the Belgian paint!
> 
> Los


I'm rather fond of them myself. I designed both paint schemes, even made the custom DT decal on the all blue model (99 Deda Moron Tubed) I have a NOS Ritchey Steel fork that is headed for matching paint and that will be the last of my CF forks. 

Both are running 8 speed with period components. The other bike is a 98 Tange Moron Tubed lugi and I have a Gang Green 97 Lugi that is my Rando Commuter. Growing up in Sonoma County these were the bikes I wanted, I have them. Oh and both my repaints were done by Allan Wanta here in San Diego. The multicolor bike doesn't go to full black, It is a deep gunmetal metallic.


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## OnTheRivet (Sep 3, 2004)

AndreyT said:


> Someone got it backwards.
> 
> Hydraulics are pointless. They make sense as a technological curiosity, a proof-of-concept (i.e. simply showing that "it can be done"), but have no real practical value beyond that. There's simply no reason for anything beyond mechanical discs. Mechanical discs already overkill everything that can possibly be done, and overkill it with quite a margin to spare.
> 
> Also, there's no such thing as "cable stretch". "Cable stretch" is an accepted jargon term that stands for various deteriorating changes in mechanical brake setups, which are not really caused by any actual stretching of the cable. Steel cable doesn't stretch. Most of the time "cable stretch" is caused either compression of mediocre quality brake cable housing or distortion of low quality housing end caps (aka "ferrules"). Both are ailments of chap/chaep-ish OEM setups, which are easily alleviated for good by using higher grade components.


This whole argument has already been played out in the MTB arena. 

"Hello, hydraulic disc brake, this is cable operated disc brake....you win"


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## cda 455 (Aug 9, 2010)

Nevermiss said:


> At 6'4" and 230 lbs., I'm tough on equipment. I had high hopes for my Foundry Auger disc frame and built it with Zipp Service Course SL, CK hubs laced to HED C2 rims, and Ultegra Di2. 30 minutes into my second race of the season I snapped the brake side seat stay
> 
> My hakkalugi disc is inbound and I should have it built by next week Hopefully this frame will be more durable.


Holy sh!t says yee fellow Clydesdale :eek6: !


You're 3" taller than me but I got (For the moment) 15lbs on you. 


Tell your story; How did it break?

I've been eyeballing a Cannondale SuperX to build as a road bike.


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## atpjunkie (Mar 23, 2002)

*I'm Nevermiss height*



cda 455 said:


> Holy sh!t says yee fellow Clydesdale :eek6: !
> 
> 
> You're 3" taller than me but I got (For the moment) 15lbs on you.
> ...


plus maybe 1/2" and around his weight. Maybe a bit heavier, heading to lighter

see my quiver below, no issues


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## sslos (Aug 11, 2003)

atpjunkie said:


> I'm rather fond of them myself. I designed both paint schemes, even made the custom DT decal on the all blue model (99 Deda Moron Tubed) I have a NOS Ritchey Steel fork that is headed for matching paint and that will be the last of my CF forks.
> 
> Both are running 8 speed with period components. The other bike is a 98 Tange Moron Tubed lugi and I have a Gang Green 97 Lugi that is my Rando Commuter. Growing up in Sonoma County these were the bikes I wanted, I have them. Oh and both my repaints were done by Allan Wanta here in San Diego. The multicolor bike doesn't go to full black, It is a deep gunmetal metallic.


Color me envious. Always wanted a Gang Green 'lugi to go with my orange Mojo.
We used to live in Sandy Eggo- I worked for Andrew at Adam's Avenue until we moved to Fat Antonio.
Liking Boise an awful lot, may have to keep my eyes open for an original 'lugi!

Los


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## atpjunkie (Mar 23, 2002)

*Jeez we've met then*



sslos said:


> Color me envious. Always wanted a Gang Green 'lugi to go with my orange Mojo.
> We used to live in Sandy Eggo- I worked for Andrew at Adam's Avenue until we moved to Fat Antonio.
> Liking Boise an awful lot, may have to keep my eyes open for an original 'lugi!
> 
> Los


Andrew's mom lives across the street from me


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## grooveninja (Feb 13, 2007)

AndreyT said:


> Someone got it backwards.
> 
> Hydraulics are pointless. They make sense as a technological curiosity, a proof-of-concept (i.e. simply showing that "it can be done"), but have no real practical value beyond that. There's simply no reason for anything beyond mechanical discs. Mechanical discs already overkill everything that can possibly be done, and overkill it with quite a margin to spare.
> 
> Also, there's no such thing as "cable stretch". "Cable stretch" is an accepted jargon term that stands for various deteriorating changes in mechanical brake setups, which are not really caused by any actual stretching of the cable. Steel cable doesn't stretch. Most of the time "cable stretch" is caused either compression of mediocre quality brake cable housing or distortion of low quality housing end caps (aka "ferrules"). Both are ailments of chap/chaep-ish OEM setups, which are easily alleviated for good by using higher grade components.



Keep telling yourself that! Sure cable disk brakes can lock up a wheel just as fast as the best cantiliver brakes. The entire reason for hydraulics is the modulation they provide leading up to lockup. Ride 2012 Saint/XTR/X0Trail brakes, the modulation and how well you can control the brake before lockup is a game changer. On a cross bike with limited tractions on 700x33's its even more critical, not less.


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## atpjunkie (Mar 23, 2002)

*what size*



sslos said:


> Color me envious. Always wanted a Gang Green 'lugi to go with my orange Mojo.
> We used to live in Sandy Eggo- I worked for Andrew at Adam's Avenue until we moved to Fat Antonio.
> Liking Boise an awful lot, may have to keep my eyes open for an original 'lugi!
> 
> Los


would you be looking for?
I can keep my eyes peeled 2 in the 54-55 range have just sold on ebay for around $400 ea (frame and fork)


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## sslos (Aug 11, 2003)

atpjunkie said:


> Andrew's mom lives across the street from me


She's awesome!
I'd be looking for a 56cm, but our move will have to put that on the back burner...

Los


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## CouchingTiger (Mar 5, 2007)

I used Avid BB7 mechanicals on XC, FR and DH MTB's for years, actually switching to them from full-hydro as the first generation sucked (Hayes, Shimano, Magura). I finally switched back in 2008 on the MTB's to the Avid Juicy line and then and have used hydro on the MTBs since. For the road tandem, I've used BB7 with 8" rotors since 2005, no problems and 100% reliable. 

For 2012, I started racing a SuperX disc with BB7 brakes. All I can say is that if you race elite masters and are my competition, stay away from them. It's good for my results 

I'll never buy another canti-brake bike.

Mike


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## buggymancan (Jul 5, 2008)

*back to the Ibis hakkalugi*

How did the thread digress into a disc vs. canti- brake discussion?

Back to it, has anyone acquired the new Ibis Hakkaluggi disc or know the availability at this time? Looking for a ride report and curious about the rear tire clearance, rumored to support knobby tires up to 38c. Wonder if perhaps a 40c would fit, like the Kenda Happy Medium?


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## Nevermiss (Jun 7, 2011)

After I snapped the seat stay on my Auger Disc, I got one of the first Hakk disc bikes. Running racing Ralph on rear and have about maybe 5-6 mm clearance on either side. I just finished my 3rd race and don't have a ruler at race. A big step up from Foundry. Anyone want a new Auger disc frame at a great price?


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## Rashadabd (Sep 17, 2011)

I came across this:

Ibis Hakkalugi gets discs for 2013 + video | road.cc | Road cycling news, Bike reviews, Commuting, Leisure riding, Sportives and more


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## buggymancan (Jul 5, 2008)

In the Hakki Disc, are you running the Racing ralph 700c x 35c on the rear and noting the 5-6 mm clearance on each side at the chainstay?


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## Howeler (Feb 20, 2008)

I'm going to order one today 11/16 from my LBS, they said (Cal Coast Bikes in San Diego) about 1 week. 

Can't freaking wait.


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## limba (Mar 10, 2004)

Awesome. Show it off when you get it.


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