# How do you get rid of the belly fat?



## FlatlandRoller

Just thought I'd throw this out there.....what's the best way to lose the belly fat? I'm 43, 6'4", 190-195 pounds, and training for a 70.3. This whole running thing....I'd like to be carrying less body, you know what I mean? I don't really have a lot of fat on my limbs or even covering my abs, but this abdominal fat has got to go. I figure there has got to be 5# of blubber in there, maybe more, and losing it while maintaining the muscle mass would really help. I lift weights and have solid core strength. I'm even down to drinking just twice per week, usually a beer or two and 1/2 bottle of wine. Do I really need to cut calories?

Thanks for listening....thanks for the help


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## ericm979

Either eat less or ride more. Cutting alcohol or soda is an easy way to cut calories without affecting your riding.


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## UnivegaRVR

Pretty much cutting calories is what you need to do if you want to lose weight.


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## looigi

Correct. There is no such thing as "spot reducing" (except perhaps for liposuction). Fat distribution in the body is independent of which muscle groups you exercise. Exercising can improve the tone of the underlying muscles but won't specifically reduce the overlying fat. The only way to lose belly fat is to consume fewer calories than you burn and reduce overall body fat.


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## aaronson37

I've been trying really hard to get a six pack ab . One thing I found from researching all over the net . Is that professional body builders are all saying the same thing over and over, the key to a six pack abs is in the kitchen. Another thing also, a MMA trainer had me change my cardio workout. I have to keep my heart rate for one hour or more , between 107 and 125(it's harder than you think) Any higher HR and your body will look else where for energy beside burning fat. I have a iPhone with a Digifit app to help me monitor my heart rate.


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## larryinpa

aaronson37 said:


> I've been trying really hard to get a six pack ab . One thing I found from researching all over the net . Is that professional body builders are all saying the same thing over and over, the key to a six pack abs is in the kitchen. Another thing also, a MMA trainer had me change my cardio workout. I have to keep my heart rate for one hour or more , between 107 and 125(it's harder than you think) Any higher HR and your body will look else where for energy beside burning fat. I have a iPhone with a Digifit app to help me monitor my heart rate.


I'm assuming this is not in your 75-80% range, so how old are you/what's your max heart rate? Sounds like long and slow works better for fat reduction than being in the cardio zone?


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## FlatlandRoller

So let me get this straight, you guys think that intra-abdominal fat is the same as fat other places? And to lose it you just have to "lose fat in general"? People start asking me if I'm sick when I'm 185 pounds and I still have the belly. I want to look a bit like Bradley Wiggins.


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## Rider Dave

It just happens that you carry most of your fat in your belly area. Cut some calories. Eat sensibly. Try to cut empty calories. White flour, sugars. Choose foods ie cereals with higer proteins and slower burning carbs like oats and whole wheats. My trick was smaller portions. 
Get going on a core exercise regime. It will tone your mid section, improve posture and add strength to your rides. Be patient. Hang in there. It will work.


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## FlatlandRoller

Rider Dave said:


> Choose foods ie cereals with higer proteins and slower burning carbs like oats and whole wheats. My trick was smaller portions.


I'm eating my oatmeal right now LOL. Portion size is probably my problem.

Alright you guys, you asked for it, brace yourselves....I'm going to post belly photos!


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## woodys737

Rider Dave said:


> It just happens that you carry most of your fat in your belly area. Cut some calories. Eat sensibly. Try to cut empty calories. White flour, sugars. Choose foods ie cereals with higer proteins and slower burning carbs like oats and whole wheats. My trick was smaller portions.
> Get going on a core exercise regime. It will tone your mid section, improve posture and add strength to your rides. Be patient. Hang in there. It will work.


+ 1. My thoughts as well...


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## FlatlandRoller

Here we are, just standing around relaxed. Looking a bit thick in the middle, eh?


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## FlatlandRoller

Here we are, acting like we are walking on the beach....


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## Rider Dave

If only you could just keep sucking it in. Looking good.


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## pretender

You're being like a chick.

Focus on your performance.


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## FlatlandRoller

pretender said:


> You're being like a chick.
> 
> Focus on your performance.


LOL, well it really *is* about carrying an extra 5# of belly fat on the run. It's about keeping the muscle that I've got and cutting weight. If all I was doing was the occasional flat TT I'd probably just keep drinking beer but the Branson 70.3 is looming!

Last fall I managed a 1:56 run split in a 1/2 IM race....figuring age and weight it wasn't a bad performance. Not much I can do about age but losing the flabber has got to help, doesn't it?

Weight Age Grading Calculator


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## MerlinAma

You get rid of fat, period! No spot reducing.

Here's a great article on weight reduction and training. 

I tried it and it worked for me. 

Not much voodoo involved. You've got to burn more than you eat.

Joe Friel - Question on Power & Weight


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## T K

aaronson37 said:


> Another thing also, a MMA trainer had me change my cardio workout. I have to keep my heart rate for one hour or more , between 107 and 125(it's harder than you think) Any higher HR and your body will look else where for energy beside burning fat. I have a iPhone with a Digifit app to help me monitor my heart rate.


You have been givin some bad information my friend. Or at least not the whole story.
Listen to me now and listen good.
It is true your body will use a higher percentage of fat at the lower heart rate. As the work load intensifies (higher heart rate) you will burn a lower percentage BUT A HIGHER overall amount of fat. So, you actually burn more fat overall at higher intencities. Plus, after harder workouts your body will continue to burn as opposed to easy work. So, once again, you are burning MORE fat.
Body builders can get ripped and never do any cardio. Because using muscle burns fat.
People at the gym who only use the tredmill only (not lift weights) have a harder time burning fat. 
Watch the "Biggest Loser"? Are they just running on the treadmill all day at low HRs? No.


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## tednugent

...bodybuilders... in order to get that ripped look before a show.... a couple months out from their shows... they do a lot of cardio as part of their workout


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## FlatlandRoller

Plus a lot of bodybuilders are using....um...."products" that can help with that sort of thing. 

But what I'm hearing here is you've gotta just lose fat, you can't just lose belly fat with some kind of diet concoction or anything that's not considered a "PED"....is that right?


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## T K

tednugent said:


> ...bodybuilders... in order to get that ripped look before a show.... a couple months out from their shows... they do a lot of cardio as part of their workout


They also do major changes to their diets like low fat and low carb. The cardio is just icing.


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## UnivegaRVR

FlatlandRoller said:


> Plus a lot of bodybuilders are using....um...."products" that can help with that sort of thing.
> 
> But what I'm hearing here is you've gotta just lose fat, you can't just lose belly fat with some kind of diet concoction or anything that's not considered a "PED"....is that right?


That's right.


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## nightfend

One other thing. You might not actually have much fat there, but just a bunch of loose skin. This will never fully go away depending on how heavy you were before you started exercising. Well, I suppose you could do what Californian's do and get cosmetic surgery to remove the excess skin...but aside from that, probably not much you can do about loose skin, especially as you get older.


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## T K

I'm looking at those pictures and not seeing much fat there. I thought you were going to have a jelly roll. I'd say you are no fatter than Cavendish. Wiggins is just crazy ripped.
They interviewed Horner the other day with his shirt off and he had some little rolls. Must have been the cheeseburgers.


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## shah321

You're being like a chick.


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## scottzj

Well I am 6'3 and about the same weight as you 190-195 and have lost well over 121lbs in the past 2 years. My mid section isnt as tight as I would like it but I do notice it is slowly slimming down. As said above, its tough to just loose in a certain area. Just keep cycling, running, swimming and eating right and eventually your body will get where you want it. I have noticed that my quads have really toned up hardcore to match the calves and its slowly moving up to the mid drift area haha. Stick with it and it will change.


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## FlatlandRoller

scottzj said:


> Well I am 6'3 and about the same weight as you 190-195 and have lost well over 121lbs in the past 2 years.


Damn, now that is a serious accomplishment there, way to go! Did you do it by just watching what you eat and cycling or what? What was the trigger that made you change? I'm impressed, that is awesome!!


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## scottzj

FlatlandRoller said:


> Damn, now that is a serious accomplishment there, way to go! Did you do it by just watching what you eat and cycling or what? What was the trigger that made you change? I'm impressed, that is awesome!!


Well it all started when I was putting on my dress shoes for work one day while sitting on a bench. I bent over and had to lean up to take a breathe before I could tie the other one.....so I said enough is enough. Growing up I was extremely lean at 6'3 and 145-150 until I got married and desk job. Then it slowly went down hill and at my biggest 311/315 and size 40 pants I couldnt deal with it anymore. We had a biggest looser competition at work and won with 45lbs in 3 months but I wasnt done.
I tried running on treadmils for low impact and then started on a MTB with road tires riding on the road. Then riding with one of my navy chiefs and I got past by tons of road cyclist and wondered what they had that we didnt......so bought a road bike and never looked back. First year I put over 5k on the bike and then upgraded to a carbon race bike. Started racing this season on a race team and have raced 11 races, 3 top 5 finishes, 6 top 10. moved up to CAT4 and still rolling strong. I still classified myself as a newbie but learning as I progress forward and still trying to lean down a tad more.


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## jlandry

FlatlandRoller said:


> So let me get this straight, you guys think that intra-abdominal fat is the same as fat other places? And to lose it you just have to "lose fat in general"? People start asking me if I'm sick when I'm 185 pounds and I still have the belly. I* want to look a bit like Bradley Wiggins*.


Start with the sideburns of course.:aureola:


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## robncircus

I had a 6-packa few years ago. For me, it was a lot of work. Drinking once a week, counting calories, etc... To be honest, it sucked. So, I resumed a much happier lifestyle of craft beer consumption, a vegetable heavy diet, and happiness and it's better. If you truly want to lose it, try cutting the unnecessary calories for a month or so. I have frineds who eat and drink terribly and they are ripped. For some of us it's just harder due to the way we're built. 

Good luck.


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## 1bamafan14

Spend more time in your "Fat burning zone which is 65%-75% of VO2 max. Do this and the fat will melt off. Also when I am trying to shed some body fat I increase my protein and decrease my fat intake. My breakdown is usually 60% carbs 28%-30% protein and 10-12% quality fats. Another thing I do when trying to drop body fat is ride ONCE per week in a fasted state for about an hour. This is not an intense interval ride but a steay 65%-75% effort for one hour. I dropped 5% body in about 4 weeks doing this. I hover anywhere between 170-175 and am 9%-10% body fat at 5'10 that is ok with me.


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## T K

1bamafan14 said:


> Spend more time in your "Fat burning zone which is 65%-75% of VO2 max. Do this and the fat will melt off.


Oh no, not another one. 
This is like saying 90% of $100 is more or better than 10% of a million bucks. 90% is more than 10% right?
Please read post #17.


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## FlatlandRoller

scottzj said:


> Well it all started when I was putting on my dress shoes for work one day while sitting on a bench. I bent over and had to lean up to take a breathe before I could tie the other one.....so I said enough is enough. Growing up I was extremely lean at 6'3 and 145-150 until I got married and desk job. Then it slowly went down hill and at my biggest 311/315 and size 40 pants I couldnt deal with it anymore. We had a biggest looser competition at work and won with 45lbs in 3 months but I wasnt done.
> I tried running on treadmils for low impact and then started on a MTB with road tires riding on the road. Then riding with one of my navy chiefs and I got past by tons of road cyclist and wondered what they had that we didnt......so bought a road bike and never looked back. First year I put over 5k on the bike and then upgraded to a carbon race bike. Started racing this season on a race team and have raced 11 races, 3 top 5 finishes, 6 top 10. moved up to CAT4 and still rolling strong. I still classified myself as a newbie but learning as I progress forward and still trying to lean down a tad more.


That is fantastic, the weight loss and the fitness too. It seems with a lot of people losing big weight there is a single event that starts the person on their weight loss journey. Watching the great champion win a big race is fun and all...but for inspiration I look for stories like this. Here's a guy who was over 300 pounds and now is 190 pounds and mixing it up in bike races!


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## FlatlandRoller

jlandry said:


> Start with the sideburns of course.:aureola:




LOL since it's not growing on my head much anymore this isn't a bad idea!


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## pulser955

I lost 30lb this year and I did it in an unconventional way. I have a friend that is a Cat 2. We train together all the time. And he came up with the idea to get me to lose fat and get stronger. We spent 3 months in the off season doing 4 ad 5 hour rides with no food. We would have a good breakfast before. Like eggs and rice and then ride and not eat till it was over. The idea was to force the body to burn fat. If your not going hard you can do it. The first few suck but once your body gets use to it then there not too bad. After the 30lb came off and I got stronger I started doing 2 to 3 100 mile rides a month. I started eating on the bike and upping the intensity and the amount of climbing. I find now I eat allot less then I did before and I have allot more power climbing.


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## FlatlandRoller

pulser955 said:


> I lost 30lb this year and I did it in an unconventional way. I have a friend that is a Cat 2. We train together all the time. And he came up with the idea to get me to lose fat and get stronger. We spent 3 months in the off season doing 4 ad 5 hour rides with no food. We would have a good breakfast before. Like eggs and rice and then ride and not eat till it was over. The idea was to force the body to burn fat. If your not going hard you can do it. The first few suck but once your body gets use to it then there not too bad. After the 30lb came off and I got stronger I started doing 2 to 3 100 mile rides a month. I started eating on the bike and upping the intensity and the amount of climbing. I find now I eat allot less then I did before and I have allot more power climbing.


Sure could be something to this. I've read that lower intensities improve your ability to burn fat whereas if you only train at high intensities your body will go for carbs all of the time. Improving your efficiency by learning to burn fat could come in handy in longer events....and it might help a guy get leaner too. The "experts" are still pushing optimal fueling on every ride but plenty (?) of pros say they train without a lot of food to cut weight and anecdotally some people have success.

I'm thinking it's a plan for the off season!


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## 1bamafan14

*Dude, you are wrong.*

Do some research. When you spend high amounts of time above the fat burning zone you become catabolic. This means your body eats the muscle to produce energy. Read the two books RACING WEIGHT by Matt Fitzgerald and METABOLIC EFFICIENCY TRAINING TEACHING THE BODY TO BURN MORE FAT byBob Seebohar, MS, RD, CSSD, CSCS. Science clearly proves your theory absoulutely WRONG!!! Also, their needs to be training periodization. I agree high intensity burns fat and continues to burn it. But he wants to lower body fat % not just lose weight. Your plan accomplishes the weight loss goal but does nothing to keep hard earned muscle. I have lost 130 lbs on my plan how much have you lost on yours? Oh, I have pics to prove it too.


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## 1bamafan14

*Tk is wrong!*

Proof is in the pics.


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## 1bamafan14

CLA (Conjoined Lineolic Acid) supposedly helps oxidize body fat. I have been taking it for a while now and it seems to work well. Eat alot of fish as well, Omega 3s help with this as well.


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## jlandry

Was at the beach the other day and I noticed this one dude with his wife & kids. He was ripped.
I noticed that when lunchtime came, he wasn't eating "party-time beach food" like the rest of us, he was snacking on hard-boiled eggs. There's got to be something to that.


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## T K

1bamafan14 said:


> Do some research. When you spend high amounts of time above the fat burning zone you become catabolic. This means your body eats the muscle to produce energy. Read the two books RACING WEIGHT by Matt Fitzgerald and METABOLIC EFFICIENCY TRAINING TEACHING THE BODY TO BURN MORE FAT byBob Seebohar, MS, RD, CSSD, CSCS. Science clearly proves your theory absoulutely WRONG!!! Also, their needs to be training periodization. I agree high intensity burns fat and continues to burn it. But he wants to lower body fat % not just lose weight. Your plan accomplishes the weight loss goal but does nothing to keep hard earned muscle. I have lost 130 lbs on my plan how much have you lost on yours? Oh, I have pics to prove it too.


Dude, I never said to train in only one zone or any of that other stuff. 
I never offered a plan. 
I never said go ride every day for 5 hours in the anerobic zone. 
Don't put words in my mouth.
What I did say is that you burn more fat as a whole with moderate intesity rather than low and that is all I said. 
At lower intesities you burn a higher PERCENTAGE of fat than carbohydrate but as work itesifies you start to burn more carbs than fat as a PERCENTAGE but the actual amount of fat burned is higher compared to the low intensity.
I was just making the point that If you think training in the aerobic zone is the only way to burn fat that is WRONG!


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## FlatlandRoller

jlandry said:


> Was at the beach the other day and I noticed this one dude with his wife & kids. He was ripped.
> I noticed that when lunchtime came, he wasn't eating "party-time beach food" like the rest of us, he was snacking on hard-boiled eggs. There's got to be something to that.


I was on a plane with this super huge ripped guy looking like he was going to a bodybuilding show or something. I had a coke and a snack pack with chips. He busted out a roll of rice cakes and drank water! It's like....I can understand robncircus's point!


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## stevesbike

1bamafan14 said:


> Proof is in the pics.



congrats on the weight loss!


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## Cinelli 82220

tednugent said:


> ...bodybuilders... in order to get that ripped look before a show.... a couple months out from their shows... they do a lot of cardio as part of their workout


Competitive bodybuilders are insanely careful about their diets as well.

VERY impressive pics 1bamafan! :thumbsup:


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## scottzj

Well I have to admit I was on the verge of over training, as I ran or cycled everyday. My off day biking was running and vice versa. However, I feel now that I am down the pounds, to tone up, eating comes more into play. I have a six pack, just not 100% defined, and still have a little "flub" around the mid drift. So now it time for intensity training such as p90x, peakfit and so on, along with a well balanced diet.

Here is my pic too...hehe


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## RkFast

Dude...even with your belling sticking out, youre pretty lean. You can drop a pound or two, but youre in pretty good shape.


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## scottzj

Well if you are referring to me, that pic is not at my smallest, as I have lost another 15lbs since that picture.


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## hmeuleman

eat every morning a few pieces of grapefruit. You can eat and drink normally.


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## 1bamafan14

Thanks! It has been a lot of hard work. Contrary to what you hear there is no magic pill or piece of equipment. It is called working out for a reason!


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## Rich_Racer

1bamafan14 said:


> Proof is in the pics.


Dude that's awesome! Love the before and after - you should be sponsored by Subway or something! 

How long did that take? How long did it take to ramp up the training you were doing? What kinds of training? How did you change your diet?


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## BostonG

tednugent said:


> ...bodybuilders... in order to get that ripped look before a show.... a couple months out from their shows... they do a lot of cardio as part of their workout


Yeah, and right before a show, they are extremely dehydrated.


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## BostonG

Don’t be ridiculous my love, of course you don’t look fat in that dress. Oh sorry, thought I was in the body image issues forum.

I am almost 39 and my mid section looks close to yours. The rest of me is better defined and I sometimes look in the mirror and playfully grab my belly fat and present it to my wife who quickly snaps at me to stop with my idiocy. 

Stop being dumb bro, your mid section looks pretty friggin’ good (did I mention it looks like mine?). Sure, we all want to improve and work towards goals but you should feel pretty darn good about yourself while working on getting to where you want to be – I’d do ya. 

And to the two guys who lost all that weight and got strong and posted those before and after pics – purely amazingly unbelievably stupendous accomplishments – very very impressive.


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## FlatlandRoller

BostonG said:


> ....your mid section looks pretty friggin’ good (did I mention it looks like mine?). Sure, we all want to improve and work towards goals but you should feel pretty darn good about yourself while working on getting to where you want to be...


Well honestly it's not *all* about self image....it's that 2 seconds per mile per pound you lose on the run that I'm excited about. 5# of unneeded belly fat=10 seconds per mile, that can save over 2 minutes in a 70.3. If I have the perfect day and the competition is weak I have an outside chance of a placing in my age class..... So that's my biggest motivation. But this week it's been all pizza and drinking so I'm not exactly living the plan very well LOL


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## FindTheRiver

A sensible diet and regular exercise. Anyone can do it, it just takes dedication. You can still eat, just eat the right things and weed-out the hollow calories. There is no quick fix. It's a lifestyle change.


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## sdeeer

FlatlandRoller said:


> Sure could be something to this. I've read that lower intensities improve your ability to burn fat whereas if you only train at high intensities your body will go for carbs all of the time. Improving your efficiency by learning to burn fat could come in handy in longer events....and it might help a guy get leaner too. The "experts" are still pushing optimal fueling on every ride but plenty (?) of pros say they train without a lot of food to cut weight and anecdotally some people have success.
> 
> I'm thinking it's a plan for the off season!


This is basically the though process of train low, compete high. Look it up on the google machine. John Hawley is an author/researcher with data on that topic. 

The true experts are NOT pushing optimal fueling on every ride. Periodized nutrition is what is becoming more of the norm in the field. There is even a growing data set that lower carbohydrate strategies might be effective.

On my list of books to read is Volek's low carb performance book.


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## jlandry

T K said:


> Oh no, not another one.
> This is like saying 90% of $100 is more or better than 10% of a million bucks. 90% is more than 10% right?
> Please read post #17.



I don't get what you're saying here... i'm not a mathemagician.

I've read about the theory of riding in the Fat Burning Zone countless times through the years. Surely there must be something to it.


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## woodys737

*Something like...*



jlandry said:


> I don't get what you're saying here... i'm not a mathemagician.
> 
> I've read about the theory of riding in the Fat Burning Zone countless times through the years. Surely there must be something to it.


While the ratio of fat burning may be higher in "The Fat Burning Zone" the absolute value is higher while riding at levels above said zone per unit of time. The reason the zone is even popular is because it's manageable for most everyone to ride there while riding at threshold takes much more concentration and to be honest, hurts more. The question really comes down to how many cals you burn during a three hour ride at endurance pace v. how many you burn at say 2X20 minute threshold pace. Many rides I do incorporate both but, each rider has to do the math for themselves given the time they have to ride and gauge fitness level to withstand higher intensity riding. 

The whole debate is a bit moot imho as one can lose weight while doing minimal cardio. It really comes down to discipline in the kitchen when all said and done.


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## T K

woodys737 said:


> While the ratio of fat burning may be higher in "The Fat Burning Zone" the absolute value is higher while riding at levels above said zone per unit of time.


Thanks, that's all I was trying to say from the begining.
From Chris Carmichael's book "Food for Fitness".
Dieters often focus on exercise programs around burning fat. They advocate low-intensity exercise because it is primarily powered by energy derived from fat. It seem logical - you want to burn fat, so you exercise at a level that burns primarily fat- but it's not a very effective means of reaching your goals. 
You may derive the highest percentage of your energy from fat when you exercise at low aerobic intensities, but when you increase your intensity you burn more total calories and more fat. The percentage of energy produced from fat decreases, but the absolute amount of fat burned increases.

You need to utilize all the zones to become a better rider. A good plan based on periodization and a good diet will keep your body in check.
I just wished I could say no to the beer. It's my biggest weak spot.


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## Jaybo

You really don't want to look like a Tour De France rider...just skinny and no muscle. Ugh! Lift weights and eat enough to avoid that look.


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## Newnan3

This thread inspired me to stop eating so [email protected] much......Eatin is cheatin


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## 1bamafan14

Rich_Racer said:


> Dude that's awesome! Love the before and after - you should be sponsored by Subway or something!
> 
> How long did that take? How long did it take to ramp up the training you were doing? What kinds of training? How did you change your diet?


The after pic was take in June this year. The before was in Oct. 2010. I basically do push ups, sit ups and pull ups. I also do arms with dumbells ranging from 15-25 lbs 8-15 reps. Diet wise the first 6 month were tough, but I made it through. I basically eat 55% quality carbs (only 100% whole grains) 30% lean protein (Chicken, turkey and fish) and 15% essential fats (Nuts and fish). I ride about 400-500 miles per month ranging in intensity. I do my upper body two days a week and ride seven. I ride a trainer and watch training vids when it is raining or dark. I do a long rie every Sat. I have been increasing distance 10% each week on my long ride. I am shooting to do this until I hit 100 miles while averaging 18-20 mph and I will do this every week. I have gotten to a point now that basically I get what I need just by listening to my body. I will have cravings and usually they tell my what I am missing. I will crave peanut butter and usually I haven't gotten the fat I needed for the day. The day after my long rides I usually cave oatmeal rasin cookies which means I am low on carbs. I typically never lack protein because I drink a whey protein shake after my morning workout and then eat fish or some other lean protein for lunch and supper. I f you are dedicated anyone can do this. And by the way if anyone out there wants to sponsor me I am available.


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## 41ants

tednugent said:


> ...bodybuilders... in order to get that ripped look before a show.... a couple months out from their shows... they do a lot of cardio as part of their workout


Their cardio tends to be in the aerobic zone for 30-45++ minutes and typically twice a day. Everything in the diet is measured out to the gram/oz; and leading up to show, some like to do a little sodium loading. That is if you are going for that lean hard look, which most cyclist simply do not have. Not to say they aren't lean, but they don't have that hard, thin-skin look how body builders do.


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## Local Hero

I can't give any advice until I see a few more over sized, black and white closeups of your abdomen.


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## FlatlandRoller

Local Hero said:


> I can't give any advice until I see a few more over sized, black and white closeups of your abdomen.


Don't forget the high contrast LOL!


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## Cobaltss_King

I have to keep my heart rate for one hour or more , between 107 and 125(it's harder than you think) Any higher HR and your body will look else where for energy beside burning fat.


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## T K

Cobaltss_King said:


> I have to keep my heart rate for one hour or more , between 107 and 125(it's harder than you think) Any higher HR and your body will look else where for energy beside burning fat.


Sigh.


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## royta

scottzj said:


> Well it all started when I was putting on my dress shoes for work one day while sitting on a bench. I bent over and had to lean up to take a breathe before I could tie the other one.....so I said enough is enough. Growing up I was extremely lean at 6'3 and 145-150 until I got married and desk job. Then it slowly went down hill and at my biggest 311/315 and size 40 pants I couldnt deal with it anymore. We had a biggest looser competition at work and won with 45lbs in 3 months but I wasnt done.
> I tried running on treadmils for low impact and then started on a MTB with road tires riding on the road. Then riding with one of my navy chiefs and I got past by tons of road cyclist and wondered what they had that we didnt......so bought a road bike and never looked back. First year I put over 5k on the bike and then upgraded to a carbon race bike. Started racing this season on a race team and have raced 11 races, 3 top 5 finishes, 6 top 10. moved up to CAT4 and still rolling strong. I still classified myself as a newbie but learning as I progress forward and still trying to lean down a tad more.


Friggin awesome story! Good for you!


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## aaronson37

ıuıɯǝƃ;4111786 said:


> Hi FlatlandRoller, if you want to be ripped with a rock hard 8 pack I would suggest the Hawaii Chair. I got mine years ago and to this very day I continue to say improvements in my abdominal area.
> 
> Here is a short Youtube video ad showing the Hawaii Chair if you are interested or curious about it- Hawaii Chair Infomercial - YouTube


Oh my god , I just spit out my protein shake all over my screen .


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## Peter_Klim

FlatlandRoller said:


> So let me get this straight, you guys think that intra-abdominal fat is the same as fat other places? And to lose it you just have to "lose fat in general"? People start asking me if I'm sick when I'm 185 pounds and I still have the belly. I want to look a bit like Bradley Wiggins.


Have you ever seen anyone with a 6 pack at the same time have flabby arms or legs or boobs? 

There is no such thing as fat spot reduction.

When losing fat, you lose it everywhere. 

When you lose fat, every part of your body will shrink. Plus, you will also lose size in muscle everywhere. If you don't want to lose muscle size while trying to loose fat, you need to lift weights.

If you want a 6 pack, but do not want to lift weight, you can do it, but you will look scrawny.

When you do situps or crunches or any ab exercises, you are not losing any fat at all. You are building size in your ab muscles. So your stomach looks bigger (unless you are shirtless AND your 6 pack is visible).

To lose weight, it is simple:
1. Eat less calories than your body utilizes.
2. Exercise.
3. Do NOT believe 99% of those stupid infomercials.

I listed in order of ease. It can easily be done by doing just #1 alone. Harder with just #2 alone (because in #1, you just do nothing and in # 2, you do something). Best to do both.

There are no secerets to losing weight. Just a lot of companies trying to brainwash us into spending our hard earned money into buying their stupid gizmo products that do absolutely nothing except make them rich. It just pissses the living shiet out of me!


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## gte105u

There are no gimicks. Eat less, eat better, exercise more. Burn as many calories as you can while build muscle. The fat burn zone may be in your training routine but to lose weight just burn as many calories as you can.

I have lost 112 lbs in a year and 3 months. From 289 in June '11 to 177 this morning. At 6'1 I weigh what I did in middle school. At 11.65% body fat (which I prefer to weight actually) I am right where I want to be.

Portion control was my first big hurdle. I drank water before meals to get bulk in my stomache. Eat with only small forks and spoons to help limit how fast I eat. Eating slower helps you eat less. I also gave up sodas and rare drink. Don't drink your calories.The how is simple, we all know what to do. Doing it is the hard part.


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## glenncz

I lost 30 lbs. 25 lbs in June and a few more since. Using HCG "drops" and the diet that goes along with it. It was easy! Since I lost the weight, i've gotten back on the bike and biked almost 700 miles since Aug 1st.


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## NateDieselF4i

Some cool before and after pics in here!


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## nOOky

The one guy above got it right. Everybody pretty much knows what they need to do to lose weight, but doing it is another thing.


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## Lenny Johnes

WOW! This is a great thread for belly fat loss ...


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## feeex

gte105u said:


>


You look happier in the first photograph. Or maybe it's your t-shirt playing tricks


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## CannondaleRushSynapse

The fastest way is to eliminate sugar. (Soda, Carbs, bread, pasta, proccessed food)

The problem with me, I love eating


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## gte105u

I have found that if there is something I really love, I don't give it up completely. I am in this for the long haul so it is not realistic to say I will no longer eat ____ ever (pizza, chicken fingers, etc.). What I do is schedule a time when I allow myself to have it. Typically it will be a reward (like after an extra-long workout to help offset). I also am sure to keep it in check (with pizza, 2 slices, eat slowly, have a big salad as well so I don't pig out). Limit the number of times to do it.

I have found that the media loves to lump things together as "bad", and people jump all over it. People say carbs are bad, but this is wrong. There is nothing inherently wrong with carbs. You need carbs, and there are carbohydrates is most things you eat. I eat beans and rice on average 1-2 nights a week, have throughout the entire time of losing and maintaining my weight. This is a meal with carbs, but they are good carbs. Also lots of protein, fiber, etc. We eat white rice with it usually, but it is not the instant kind. So while not as good as brown it is still better than instant brown rice. Another trend now is giving up gluten. Unless you have a gluten allergy this is silly. Its just that many foods that are bad for you have gluten, so people try to reverse that and say giving up gluten is good for you...

The fact of the matter is that it is not rocket science. More calories out than calories in. You can lose fat/weight on a diet of twinkies if you burn off more than you take in. It isn't good for you, you will feel lousy, but you will lose weight. The key to it is to exercise enough to maintain muscle mass (your body will think it is starving and try to break down muscle as well as fat), and find a system that works for you. Each person is different, so just because something worked for you doesn't mean it will work for someone else (thus take advice from anyone, including this post, with a grain of salt).


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## Dragos

Good info in this thread! BTW to the OP... I wish I would have your "problem"


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## Noobie39

Nice work bamafan! I myself am down 25 and counting over a period of a year made a ton of diet,lifestyle changes but struggle with the beer.


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## Dave Cutter

If you want to "show abs”... diet to lower your body fat. The abs are there... they are just covered with too much fat to be seen.
However... if you want to remove the poochy belly... reduce your food intake volume.

It doesn't matter whether you wolf down a pizza or a salad... a big meal will swell your stomach. And in turn give you a pooch. It is the big meals, soda, and beer which swells or inflates the belly. The saying is: “Eat nothing bigger than a fist”. 

Don't sacrifice fiber, or water. Just think several tiny meals... and watch/count calories and proper nutrition. Cutting out late-night or before bedtime eating can be helpful or even all that is needed for many. Give your body as many hours as reasonably practical between dinner and breakfast.


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## deepakvrao

Soda. Is it so wrong to have diet coke? Any downsides? I have been substituting my beer desires with diet cola. Along with other such measures, have lost 44 pounds, but was wondering if there is any downside to diet colas?


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## Bizman

deepakvrao said:


> Soda. Is it so wrong to have diet coke? Any downsides? I have been substituting my beer desires with diet cola. Along with other such measures, have lost 44 pounds, but was wondering if there is any downside to diet colas?


My opinion on this is that the fake sweeteners they use can't be god for you. I have also heard that soda will take the calcium out of your bones to help neutrlize the acid from the soda. I haven't drank alcohol in 71/2 years and soda for 51/2 years, the money I have saved and its gotta be better for my body! 

If you exercise daily, make yourself sweat, raise your heartbeat for at least 1 hour per day, and watch your carbs you should be able to eat whatever you want and as much of it as you want and not gain weight.


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## phoehn9111

For gods sake, this kind of Mens Health fluff post doesn't belong in this forum. I too lost
30 lbs this spring, it is gone forever and will not return. No endless cycle of self-congratulatory
rhetoric or mutual war stories about the ongoing struggle. I am more ashamed of having been
30 lbs overweight to even mention it among the esteemed cyclists in this forum.Please move on, and proceed to what really matters, and what really takes willpower. The arduous struggle to excel as a rider.


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## Dave Cutter

deepakvrao said:


> Soda. Is it so wrong to have diet coke? Any downsides? I have been substituting my beer desires with diet cola. Along with other such measures, have lost 44 pounds, but was wondering if there is any downside to diet colas?


Congratulations on the weight loss! I've also had some level of success with weight control. I am now at (according to the charts) ideal weight with a BMI around 24. 

I didn't mean to imply that soft drinks, beer, or big meals are bad. I don't drink... but do enjoy diet soft drinks. This... “showing abs” and “flat belly” look stuff... is cosmetic or body sculpting. It really doesn't have much (if anything) to do with fitness. But the look is popular and low body fat levels and a strong core is also a part of cycling.


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## Dave Cutter

phoehn9111 said:


> .Please move on, and proceed to what really matters, and what really takes willpower. The arduous struggle to excel as a rider.


For at least a couple years... I got fatter as a cyclist... and I don't think I am alone with that problem. To some of us... controlling weight is a big part of cycling goals. And... deciding to lose weight was greatly based on my desire to be a better cyclist.

A fellow cyclist asked me to other day if my 70 pound weight loss has changed my cycling. Of course... he was joking. Nothing could make the difference that getting the motor (me) healthy, trim, and fit. 

There are many YouTube videos about weight loss/diet and cycling. Cyclist weight makes a huge difference and even the pros often struggle with diet.


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## Dave Cutter

Bizman said:


> If you exercise daily, make yourself sweat, raise your heartbeat for at least 1 hour per day, and watch your carbs you should be able to eat whatever you want and as much of it as you want and not gain weight.


Well... don't under-estimate the human body's ability to store energy. If you take in more fuel than your body can use... it will store some away for later.


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## looigi

Bizman said:


> If you exercise daily, make yourself sweat, raise your heartbeat for at least 1 hour per day, and watch your carbs you should be able to eat whatever you want and as much of it as you want and not gain weight.


Basically incorrect for people who get plenty of high intensity aerobic exercise and what they wind up wanting to eat provides more calories than they burn, the excess getting stored as fat. 

I'm one of them. If I don't religiously count and restrict calories, I'll gain weight eating what I want to eat, regardless of the amount I exercise. The more I exercise, the more I want to eat.


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## foto

Here are my before and after shots. I can't believe how much better I look now that I get a healthy amount of excersize and stopped eating like a pig.


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## T K

Hey foto, are you busy Friday night? And do you like tequila?


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## Noobie39

Too funny.


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## TehYoyo

FlatlandRoller said:


> Sure could be something to this. I've read that lower intensities improve your ability to burn fat whereas if you only train at high intensities your body will go for carbs all of the time. Improving your efficiency by learning to burn fat could come in handy in longer events....and it might help a guy get leaner too. The "experts" are still pushing optimal fueling on every ride but plenty (?) of pros say they train without a lot of food to cut weight and anecdotally some people have success.
> 
> I'm thinking it's a plan for the off season!


That's really annoying for me as I like high-intensity workouts.


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## foto

T K said:


> Hey foto, are you busy Friday night? And do you like tequila?


I don't think you can satisfy a man like me, seeing as I would be competing with your Biatchi for attention.


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## T K

foto said:


> I don't think you can satisfy a man like me, seeing as I would be competing with your Biatchi for attention.


Man?!!!! Ewwww!!! I thought you were a hot Asian chick with a nice rack!
Me and Celeste it is then. Now, I just need to remove the seatpost, then............


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## TehYoyo

deepakvrao said:


> Soda. Is it so wrong to have diet coke? Any downsides? I have been substituting my beer desires with diet cola. Along with other such measures, have lost 44 pounds, but was wondering if there is any downside to diet colas?


Yep, there are. The artificial sweeteners that they put in are proven to contribute to a higher risk of cancer. Also, I know *several* people who have actually gotten addicted to diet coke - drinking 6 or 8 per day addicted. One guy who quit dropped 15 lbs just from quitting.

Just drink water. W/ ice and after a while, I enjoy it more than some sodas because I know it's not putting in dead calories and sugars.


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## loona

this show is crazy deep on certain topics, 
but kind of delves into weight loss.
in a unique way .

introduction/start of show goes til about 8 minute point 
before program gets into important info.

Dr Jerry Tennant on Healing is Voltage & Fulvic Acid Minerals (Eye Health) - YouTube


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## BigBadConrad

woodys737 said:


> While the ratio of fat burning may be higher in "The Fat Burning Zone" the absolute value is higher while riding at levels above said zone per unit of time.


Woody,

With all due respect, I'm not sure that is true. There seems to be some debate about this, and not only in this thread. I've read articles that support your statement and others that don't.

I got a sub-maximal VO2 max test done about 18 months ago after one year back on the bike (am slightly fitter and leaner now). The exercise physiologist who tested me sent me the chart below. According to this, while the total CALORIES burned is higher at higher intensity levels, both the % of fat calories AND the absolute fat calories burned are higher in the 'fat burning zone' (for me, 105-115 bpm). I'm sure everyone's numbers are different, but the absolute fat calories burned in the 'FBZ' should be higher than at any other level for everyone, if there's merit to this. I don't know how he calculated this, but he's a well-respected local 'performance specialist'. I should send him an email and ask him about the basis for this.

Anyway, as I try to shed a last few lbs. of fat, I have been mixing in some early morning spin bike sessions at about 115 bpm for 45 minutes as soon as I get up. Seems to be working and I don't seem to be catabolizing much muscle, which is a goal.


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## gte105u

Unless you are doing some crazy ultra training sessions, the number of calories burned during a single workout is not enough to start canabilizing muscle to a significant degree. During any weight loss routine, be it diet alone, diet and cardio, or diet cario and strength, your body will want to stop losing fat and start breaking down muscle. This is because your body thinks it is starving to death and is preserving fat as a last ditch reserve. That is why some sort of muscle building activity is necessary while losing weight.

It is true that you burn more fat calories as a percentage of total calories in the fat burning zone. But in the long term this is irrelevant. Calories in calories out is all that matters. If you eat a proper diet and do strength training to build muscle (which intense biking falls into though it is best to suppliment with upper and core training as well) your muscle mass will not break down. If you are getting enough vitamins and minerals it is not going to take it from your bones or organs (age and certain conditions being an exception). Thus when you run a calorie deficit, no matter how the deficit was initially burned, if you eat and exercise in a balanced manner you will burn fat and build muscle. Therefore you should burn as many calories as you can in a workout if the goal is fat loss. This fat burning zone is a smoke screen and detrimental to people's bests interests.


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## Undecided

Thanks for posting this. Without assuming too much from your unique numbers, I have to say that this is fairly depressing on the issue of "fat loss"!

On the other hand, information is good and this suggests that conventional wisdom on this subject can be wrong, and those who are interested could get some useful info out of physiological testing.


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## gte105u

Undecided said:


> Thanks for posting this. Without assuming too much from your unique numbers, I have to say that this is fairly depressing on the issue of "fat loss"!
> 
> On the other hand, information is good and this suggests that conventional wisdom on this subject can be wrong, and those who are interested could get some useful info out of physiological testing.



Nope... just burn the calories. The fat will take care of itself. If your goal is weight loss burn as many as you can with as high a heart rate as you can sustain. Don't buy the gimicks, they pander to what the average person wants to hear... that its actually better to not work out as hard.


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## spade2you

gte105u said:


> If your goal is weight loss burn as many as you can with as high a heart rate as you can sustain.


This is fine in general, but this is the racer sub-forum. Riding as hard as you can sustain can easily lead to plateauing. It's generally a goal of ours to avoid this.


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## gte105u

spade2you said:


> This is fine in general, but this is the racer sub-forum. Riding as hard as you can sustain can easily lead to plateauing. It's generally a goal of ours to avoid this.


Hence my qualifying my statement that if your goal is to lose weight. If you have different goals then you will attack it differently. But ai don't imagine there are many race training routines that include extended periods and sessions in the fat burning heart rate zone.


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## spade2you

gte105u said:


> But I don't imagine there are many race training routines that include extended periods and sessions in the fat burning heart rate zone.


Endurance base training, depending on how zone 1-2 are defined.


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## FlatlandRoller

That's.....that's like 18 hours to burn 1 pound of fat. Damn, that's really depressing!







BigBadConrad said:


> Woody,
> 
> With all due respect, I'm not sure that is true. There seems to be some debate about this, and not only in this thread. I've read articles that support your statement and others that don't.
> 
> I got a sub-maximal VO2 max test done about 18 months ago after one year back on the bike (am slightly fitter and leaner now). The exercise physiologist who tested me sent me the chart below. According to this, while the total CALORIES burned is higher at higher intensity levels, both the % of fat calories AND the absolute fat calories burned are higher in the 'fat burning zone' (for me, 105-115 bpm). I'm sure everyone's numbers are different, but the absolute fat calories burned in the 'FBZ' should be higher than at any other level for everyone, if there's merit to this. I don't know how he calculated this, but he's a well-respected local 'performance specialist'. I should send him an email and ask him about the basis for this.
> 
> Anyway, as I try to shed a last few lbs. of fat, I have been mixing in some early morning spin bike sessions at about 115 bpm for 45 minutes as soon as I get up. Seems to be working and I don't seem to be catabolizing much muscle, which is a goal.


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## Cinelli 82220

gte105u said:


> This fat burning zone is a smoke screen and detrimental to people's bests interests.


Yes! The fat burning zone doesn't work for me. High intensity does.


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## Undecided

gte105u said:


> Nope... just burn the calories. The fat will take care of itself. If your goal is weight loss burn as many as you can with as high a heart rate as you can sustain. Don't buy the gimicks, they pander to what the average person wants to hear... that its actually better to not work out as hard.


I suspect that I'm looking at this from a different perspective than "the average person," but even as a pretty fit bike racer, at some point in the year I may be, say, six pounds over what I consider my best racing weight. I ride on the order of 900-1000 hours/year, fairly evenly distributed throughout the year, so it's not really an issue of not having "enough" time for exercise at any given point, but my goal at some point during the year isn't just "losing weight," it's losing fat, with minimal disruption to my ability to do my other workouts. So (and I'm certainly not a physiologist), for me, the chart above makes me wonder whether I should do some more riding in my lower endurance zone (say 820 kJ/hour) when fat loss is on my agenda---whether indeed it would "better" suit my purpose than making my base season consistently mid and upper endurance zone (say 930-1050 kJ/hr). I still end up burning plenty of calories, either way, and often enough I could just ride for a longer duration at the lower intensity, anyway.


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## gte105u

Undecided said:


> I suspect that I'm looking at this from a different perspective than "the average person," but even as a pretty fit bike racer, at some point in the year I may be, say, six pounds over what I consider my best racing weight. I ride on the order of 900-1000 hours/year, fairly evenly distributed throughout the year, so it's not really an issue of not having "enough" time for exercise at any given point, but my goal at some point during the year isn't just "losing weight," it's losing fat, with minimal disruption to my ability to do my other workouts. So (and I'm certainly not a physiologist), for me, the chart above makes me wonder whether I should do some more riding in my lower endurance zone (say 820 kJ/hour) when fat loss is on my agenda---whether indeed it would "better" suit my purpose than making my base season consistently mid and upper endurance zone (say 930-1050 kJ/hr). I still end up burning plenty of calories, either way, and often enough I could just ride for a longer duration at the lower intensity, anyway.


I understand what you are saying, and you are exactly right. For you, the goal is not just weight loss (when I say weight loss I really mean fat loss since really that is the goal for the vast majority of people losing weight), it is weight loss while also sport training

I would not dream of telling someone the best way to train, as many (most?) on this board know far more than I do about training for cycling. There may well be times (as was previously pointed out) when training at a lower intensity, intervals, and many other types of routines that involved allowing your heart rate to get or stay low is the best course of action. The point I am getting at is that at no point in these routines the primary reason for varying your heart rate the burning of fat. It may be a secondary goal, or even a parallel goal. 

One thing I am very vocal about is that the losing of weight is a relatively simple process. You don't need gimmicks, you don't need fads or tricks. It is a simple formula, burn more calories than you take in. Now the goal should be to lose fat, and in order to do this you need to maintain (or preferably build) muscle tone. If you do strength building exercises (which vigorous cycling includes) you will not lose muscle tone in the legs. It is best to also do some upper and core exercises to build there as well (weights, pushups, or mixing swimming into your routine are all great options). Once you are doing these, and eating right, the best way to lose fat is to burn as many calories as possible during a workout. If that means a lower intensity for a longer time, that is fine. If that means a very high intensity for a shorter time, good. But burn as many calories as you can and forget the heart zone (as long as it is high enough to be effective and again only if you primary goal is to lose weight).

The fat burning zone became fashionable for 2 reasons. It served to inspire people who did not exercise that you didn't need to gasp for air and feel like you were about to fall out in order to get effective exercise. It gave them a realistic place to shoot for. It also served to help motivate people who thought they were exercising but were really not doing it hard enough (casually strolling and calling it walking for instance). This gave them something to aim for. A secondary benefit was good marketing to sell the abundance of heart rate monitors that have saturated the market. But for people beyond the beginning phases of exercise and into forms of workout more akin to training, the fat burning zone is not something to concern yourself with unless it is part of your overall training routine.


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## cyclepath78

Great info here. I have had great success with plain old fashioned common sense. Eat smart and ride lots!


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## cyclepath78

Eat less or ride more? My preference, eat smart and ride more!


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## noelb

Okay, so how many Caleries per day do I need?


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## gte105u

noelb said:


> Okay, so how many Caleries per day do I need?


To lose belly fat, less than you burn. Only answer anyone can give based upon this assumption and the information provided (see none).


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## Fireform

Have recently become a devotee of the myfitnesspal app and website. Fantastic for tracking your calorie intake and burn. I've lost 12 pounds in 3 weeks pretty easily. Check it out.


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## crassostrea

Fireform said:


> Have recently become a devotee of the myfitnesspal app and website. Fantastic for tracking your calorie intake and burn. I've lost 12 pounds in 3 weeks pretty easily. Check it out.


Been using it since this past summer. Have lost a total of 5lbs since February. Theirs belly fat is still hanging on. First on last off I guess.


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