# The Pacenti Tire Mounting rumors...they're true



## charlox5 (Jan 31, 2011)

Tried to mount up some Vittoria Evo Corsa CX's onto my newly built SL23 build, and in the process, snapped 2 tire levers, punctured the tube, and left a nice gouge on the lip of the rim. Mounting an Evo Corsa to this rim is damn near impossible in my garage, so I can only imagine how bad it would be on the road. Maybe it's the perfect storm of hard to mount tire + hard to mount rim, but basically i'm moving on and saving the Vitt's for a different wheelset.

So, I'm on the hunt for a new tire, in 25mm, that won't take the grace of god to mount onto this rim. I suppose GP4000S is the easy choice (I'm on GP4000S on my other bike), but I was also considering a michelin PR4 endurance or otherwise. Any mounting concerns with the michelin line? Any other recommendations from Schwalbe? Veloflex? etc?


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## echo7 (Sep 7, 2010)

I mounted GP attack /force on my pacentis 2 days ago.. It was a challenge but am able to install the tires.. I used the blue park tool tire lever and some starch powder..

someone recommended this.. Im on the hunt for one...

Crank Brothers Speed Lever - YouTube


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## tednugent (Apr 26, 2010)

Wow... 2 levers snapped...

Since they are tubeless ready... Did you mount the valve section last? Did you push the tire bead (opposite the valve) into the drop channel for extra slack?

Last time I had a lever snap was Learning to mount tubeless on my MTB set up

I have found crank brothers speedier lever great for mounting difficult tubeless setups.


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## charlox5 (Jan 31, 2011)

admittedly, i'm not using the greatest tire levers, but i've never snapped one of them before. 

i wrestled for about an hour with the thing trying to get it on, and no dice. I tried everything to get just enough slack but nothin doing. then i wrestled for another hour just trying to get the tire off, and once i did i drank beers until i no longer cared


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## tednugent (Apr 26, 2010)

echo7 said:


> I mounted GP attack /force on my pacentis 2 days ago.. It was a challenge but am able to install the tires.. I used the blue park tool tire lever and some starch powder..
> 
> someone recommended this.. Im on the hunt for one...
> 
> Crank Brothers Speed Lever - YouTube


I originally bought mine at Rei

But, it got replaced by the speedier lever. A lot more beefy construction, though doesn't "snap" into the QR anymore


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## echo7 (Sep 7, 2010)

I dont see any demo from youtube.. 
Hows the mounting? is it better than the "speed levers"?


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## bikerjulio (Jan 19, 2010)

I mounted 25mm PR4's on my Pacentis a week ago. Levers needed but not too bad.

Tires are now 27mm wide.


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## rlrj (Nov 17, 2005)

been there done that. i found it better to use stans 21mm tape 2 layers, I've used vittoria rubino pro's but have schwalbe ultremo 700x25 and they were easier to mount, and I now carry a kool stop tire bead jack which make mounting that little bit of tire at the end mount with minimal problems. I have flatted on the road twice the first a real PITA but the second with the jack was way easier. Make sure to push the bead away from the rim all the way around the tire before trying to unseat the tire to replace the tube when flat. good luck it does get easier. Ive never used a lever or tire jack to mount a tire before but with these rims its almost a must


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## Randy99CL (Mar 27, 2013)

echo7 said:


> I mounted GP attack /force on my pacentis 2 days ago.. It was a challenge but am able to install the tires.. I used the blue park tool tire lever and some starch powder..
> someone recommended this.. Im on the hunt for one...Crank Brothers Speed Lever - YouTube


I got my SpeedLever at Nashbar for $4: Crank Brothers SpeedLever Tire Lever - Bike Wheel and Tire Tools

This is a miracle tool. When mounting Vittorias on Easton tubeless rims the tires were so far from seating that I was sure I'd bend the rims if I pried on them.
I tried the Speed Lever for the first time and was amazed at how easily it seated the tire. I used my left hand to make sure the opposite bead was in the rim recess while my other slowly worked the tool around the rim and the tire popped right on.

It is funny that the guy in the video did it wrong; you want to seat the tire at the valve last so that the opposite side can be pushed into the rim recess.


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## bobonker (Feb 12, 2011)

I can get my GP4000S, PR4, and Vittoria Open Evo Corsas on without tools. Initially, I thought it was too $#@! hard to mount a tire on this rim. 

Thin rim tape (Stan's or now bikehubstore.com carries Pacenti-specific rim tape) is a must. That plus keeping the bead in the center of the rim are the two really important things.

I needed a tire lever for the Pro Race 4 when it was new, but haven't needed it since then. 

Bob


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## charlox5 (Jan 31, 2011)

bobonker said:


> I can get my GP4000S, PR4, and Vittoria Open Evo Corsas on without tools. Initially, I thought it was too $#@! hard to mount a tire on this rim.
> 
> Thin rim tape (Stan's or now bikehubstore.com carries Pacenti-specific rim tape) is a must. That plus keeping the bead in the center of the rim are the two really important things.
> 
> ...


I'm using veloplugs instead of tape, i'm wondering if that is causing issues. 

I just ordered some PR4's (which i think will match the french frame better than italian tires ) so I will give those a shot once they arrive.


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## rlrj (Nov 17, 2005)

I started out with veloplugs, then velox tape then stans. the veloplugs by far were the worst. the thin stans tape is the best of the three and i wish i knew about the pacenti specific rim tape.I'm going to stay as is for now. A slightly used tire is a lot easier to mount then brand new for me on these rims and foldable not wire beaded.


charlox5 said:


> I'm using veloplugs instead of tape, i'm wondering if that is causing issues.
> 
> I just ordered some PR4's (which i think will match the french frame better than italian tires ) so I will give those a shot once they arrive.


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## 2Bills (May 21, 2013)

I had success with Michelin lithion2 by hand. The tire was new. Did have stans tape for the rim strip. Maybe I got lucky.


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## tednugent (Apr 26, 2010)

echo7 said:


> I dont see any demo from youtube..
> Hows the mounting? is it better than the "speed levers"?


It doesn't attach to the QR, but it is shaped for you to get a better grip for the more difficult beads. It's also a stronger material


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## SystemShock (Jun 14, 2008)

charlox5 said:


> I'm using veloplugs instead of tape, i'm wondering if that is causing issues.
> 
> I just ordered some PR4's (which i think will match the french frame better than italian tires ) so I will give those a shot once they arrive.


Charlox, have you considered trying the Stan's tape? Would be interesting to hear how much that does or doesn't improve things in the case of a b!tch-to-mount tire with these rims.


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## c_h_i_n_a_m_a_n (Mar 3, 2012)

+1 on pushing the tyre bead off the rim and into the channel on the opposite side ...

I usually keep the valve at either 3 or 9 o'clock. The tyre bead at 6 o'clock is where I will push into the channel and as I move my palms around the tyre up to 12 o'clock, _thereby keeping the tyre at 6 o'clock still in the channel_, will push the tyre over the rim.

I will also use a damp cloth with 1 drop of dish washing liquid, and give the tyre bead and the inside of the rim a once over. And talcum powder for the tube of course.


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## mikerp (Jul 24, 2011)

Mounted a Michelin Pro4 on a new build last night (SL23 with a Powertap G3).
I did it purely by hand, comes down to Stan's tape and good technique.
I was in your same position on the first SL23 (a few months ago) with cotton tape (I didn't break any levers or gouge the rim - but it did take a good bit of effort).


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## ergott (Feb 26, 2006)

I can't stress this enough. Use the Stan's tape. Velocity makes a similar tape, but I haven't tried it. Cotton tapes and Veloplugs aren't recommended. The tape doesn't shift around over time, weighs about 25g per wheelset for two layers and makes tire mounting easier. It's win all around. Don't skimp.


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## rruff (Feb 28, 2006)

Randy99CL said:


> It is funny that the guy in the video did it wrong; you want to seat the tire at the valve last so that the opposite side can be pushed into the rim recess.


IME it's best to do the valve first. You can still put the beads into the recess... then push the valve down when you are done.


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## Randy99CL (Mar 27, 2013)

rruff said:


> IME it's best to do the valve first. You can still put the beads into the recess... then push the valve down when you are done.


My Easton rims have a recessed center section to make it easier (almost impossible otherwise) to install or remove the tire. The tubeless valve stems fill that recess so the Easton directions tell you to start opposite and finish at the valve. Makes sense to me; I don't see any advantage in doing it another way.

But whatever floats your boat.


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## rruff (Feb 28, 2006)

Randy99CL said:


> The tubeless valve stems...


Nobody here has been talking about mounting tubeless tires... just tires with tubes. 

For tubeless what you say makes sense.


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## ergott (Feb 26, 2006)

rruff said:


> IME it's best to do the valve first. You can still put the beads into the recess... then push the valve down when you are done.


How is that better than finishing at the valve where you can truly get all the bead opposite from the last portion of the tire deep into the channel? I have always saved the valve for last.


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## Jay Strongbow (May 8, 2010)

ergott said:


> How is that better than finishing at the valve where you can truly get all the bead opposite from the last portion of the tire deep into the channel? I have always saved the valve for last.


Maybe I don't understand your point but if you can "get all the bead opposite from the last portion of the tire deep into the channel?" when the last portion is at the valve you can certainly do it when that last portion is not at the valve too. 

I assume you agree the last few inches is the toughest? Why deal with the valve last when it's a total layup to start with it?


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## rruff (Feb 28, 2006)

The valve requires extra attention so I like to deal with it when the bead is loose.


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## Enoch562 (May 13, 2010)

I was able to mount 2 very slightly used 25c Rubinos Pros today by hand on my Pacenti rims. I used 2 layers of re enforced shipping tape on mine.


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## ergott (Feb 26, 2006)

I've never had any problem around the valve and want to take advantage of the rim cavity as much as possible with tight fits. If something else works for others, fine by me. I do suggest giving the way I do it a try.


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## cdhbrad (Feb 18, 2003)

Not to argue with your suggestions on rim tape as I've never seen an SL23 and you helped develop the rim, but how does the type of rim strip used impact the mounting of a tire since the tire is already over the bead of the rim before it can ever contact the rim strip? I want to build a set of wheels using these rims and will always use them with tubes, so I'm curious as to why a veloplug would not work but two layers of tape is OK? Appreciate your reply.


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## mikerp (Jul 24, 2011)

cdhbrad said:


> Not to argue with your suggestions on rim tape as I've never seen an SL23 and you helped develop the rim, but how does the type of rim strip used impact the mounting of a tire since the tire is already over the bead of the rim before it can ever contact the rim strip? I want to build a set of wheels using these rims and will always use them with tubes, so I'm curious as to why a veloplug would not work but two layers of tape is OK? Appreciate your reply.


The entire tire isn't over the rim to start only a portion, the further the tire can get into the rim the easier it is to get the rest of the bead over the rim. Veloplugs won't let the tire get as deep into the rim.


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## rruff (Feb 28, 2006)

cdhbrad said:


> I'm curious as to why a veloplug would not work but two layers of tape is OK? Appreciate your reply.


I think veloplugs are problematic because of the bends in the center channel, plus the holes are offset a little. They don't sit flush. 

Two layers of Stan's tape are still quite thin, and they have low friction. An added bonus is that you can add valves and have a tubeless setup if that interests you. I use a 12mm and a 24mm strip.


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## mikerp (Jul 24, 2011)

rruff said:


> I use a 12mm and a 24mm strip.


Guess I'm not the only one that used the 2 width approach, I had 2 rolls of 12 sitting on the shelf. After doing a set of wheels with 2 layers or 21 mm. I figured I'd take a shot at 12/21 and use some of the 12 up. Works just fine.


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## rruff (Feb 28, 2006)

Ya... two layers are needed for high pressure over the holes, and the 12mm strip does that fine. I goofed when I said 24mm... 12mm and 21mm is what I use also.


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## cdhbrad (Feb 18, 2003)

Ron: Thanks for the explanation about how veloplugs won't work, makes sense if the spoke holes are offset on the SL23. BHS sells a 21mm Pacenti rim tape:Pacenti Rim Tape. I'll just order that when I get the rims, etc. as I would assume that Pacenti wouldn't sell a strip that won't work on its own rims.


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## echo7 (Sep 7, 2010)

I bought this lever as recommended by other pacenti users. I removed my GP attack and installed a brand new Pro4 and it was a breeze!... Just slide the lever towards you SLOWLY and make sure the bottom part of the lever does'nt touch the spokes.. 

Crank Brothers Speedier Lever Tire Lever - Mountain Equipment Co-op. Free Shipping Available


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## charlox5 (Jan 31, 2011)

quick update: got some stans tape and replaced the veloplugs. mounting is no longer a herculean feat--still not hand-mountable, but a little bit of effort with the levers is required. 

but i'm not sure i'm going to stick with these vittoria evo corsa's in 23. will wait for the 25c PR4's i have on order to arrive and will re-assess.


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## vivid (Jun 1, 2012)

Great thread. I just received a set of SL23s, installed Stans tape and tried to mount 25mm Rubino Pros. I got one on with just my hands, but the second I could not get on with just my hands. I struggled with it, tore up my hands pretty good, then destroyed two tubes using levers. Which then brought me to see if others were having the same issues. I've never had an issue mounting Rubions by hand on my old Bontrager Race wheels.


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## GRAVELBIKE (Sep 16, 2011)

I've had no issues mounting wider tires on my SL23 rims. Ergott built the wheels, and they came with Stan's yellow tape already installed. I'm going to convert them to tubeless, so it'll be interesting to see how the Hutchinson (Sector 28) tires mount up.


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## Fignon's Barber (Mar 2, 2004)

Had my first flat on the road yesterday with my pacenti SL23/vittoria open corsa evo SC combo. Changed, no problem....with bare hands. It was a nice 90 degree afternoon, so the tire was nice and soft. I use the stan's thin tape. I remember when I first put the new tires on it was tough. But they loosen up over time.


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## mikerp (Jul 24, 2011)

Fignon's Barber said:


> Had my first flat on the road yesterday with my pacenti SL23/vittoria open corsa evo SC combo. Changed, no problem....with bare hands. It was a nice 90 degree afternoon, so the tire was nice and soft. I use the stan's thin tape. I remember when I first put the new tires on it was tough. But they loosen up over time.


Once the tire is on it will stretch a bit and make it easier.
With a new tire it helps if they have been sitting in the sun or toss them in a Dryer and warm them up.


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## Fignon's Barber (Mar 2, 2004)

mikerp said:


> Once the tire is on it will stretch a bit and make it easier.
> With a new tire it helps if they have been sitting in the sun or toss them in a Dryer and warm them up.


yes. that's what I just said.


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## Jay Strongbow (May 8, 2010)

I'm just curious.....how many of you who have problems getting a tire and tube on this rim have used another tubeless ready rim? Did you find that any better?

It's my understanding that they all suck for getting tires on easy and I have a feeling these complaints are not unique to this rim but unique to tubeless ready rims.


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## SystemShock (Jun 14, 2008)

Jay Strongbow said:


> I'm just curious.....how many of you who have problems getting a tire and tube on this rim have used another tubeless ready rim? Did you find that any better?
> 
> It's my understanding that they all suck for getting tires on easy and I have a feeling these complaints are not unique to this rim but unique to tubeless ready rims.


Sounds like what many of us actually want is tubless *UN*ready rims. 

Srsly, I do. I have no desire to convert to tubeless, would much rather have rims that are easy to mount tires on.


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## charlox5 (Jan 31, 2011)

SystemShock said:


> Sounds like what many of us actually want is tubless *UN*ready rims.
> 
> Srsly, I do. I have no desire to convert to tubeless, would much rather have rims that are easy to mount tires on.


yeah, that was the conclusion i came to last night. 

though i guess i'm double wrapping these rims with stan's tape in the event that the tubeless tire market selection improves.


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## bikerjulio (Jan 19, 2010)

SystemShock said:


> Sounds like what many of us actually want is tubless *UN*ready rims.
> 
> Srsly, I do. I have no desire to convert to tubeless, would much rather have rims that are easy to mount tires on.


What's tubeless got to do with it?

These are no more tubeless than most other rims out there, in fact a lot less than my 8 YO Ksyriums. 

Don't confuse things.


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## charlox5 (Jan 31, 2011)

bikerjulio said:


> What's tubeless got to do with it?
> 
> These are no more tubeless than most other rims out there, in fact a lot less than my 8 YO Ksyriums.
> 
> Don't confuse things.


i dunno, i haven't had this problem with any other hoops i've tried. granted, not a huge selection, but a few.

at this point i'm wishing i would have went with C2's, since i really like my other wheels built on C2's, but i guess in the end the $100 price difference was at least a logical reason for not doing so.


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## bikerjulio (Jan 19, 2010)

charlox5 said:


> i dunno, i haven't had this problem with any other hoops i've tried. granted, not a huge selection, but a few.
> 
> at this point i'm wishing i would have went with C2's, since i really like my other wheels built on C2's, but i guess in the end the $100 price difference was at least a logical reason for not doing so.


Some rims are slightly larger diameter than others. It's go nothing to do with tubeless. Campy rims are on the large side too.


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## tednugent (Apr 26, 2010)

bikerjulio said:


> What's tubeless got to do with it?
> 
> These are no more tubeless than most other rims out there, in fact a lot less than my 8 YO Ksyriums.
> 
> Don't confuse things.


Tubeless cross section when you look at it, has a bench for the bead sit on.

If you look at iirc, velocity a23 pre-tubeless, it does not have that bench.

I think I'm going tubeless on my Ksyrium elite soon. Maybe have to order the Roubaix tubeless.


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## SystemShock (Jun 14, 2008)

bikerjulio said:


> Some rims are slightly larger diameter than others. It's got nothing to do with tubeless.


You certain? Is it really entirely impossible that tubeless-ready rims are intentionally made very slightly larger in diameter to provide a tighter seal?

And as Charlox said, he hasn't seen these kind of tire-mounting issues on non-tubeless-ready rims. In the end, you just gotta go with what works.


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## tednugent (Apr 26, 2010)

there is some sort of tolerance on the BSD according to the ISO/ERTO standard.... Can't expect 622mm to be made spot on every time. Then manufacturers can make something on the higher end of the tolerance along with the wider rim, making the rim sidewall taller and the bead hook fatter....

At the same time, there is the variation on the ERD on tire bead itself.

Combine the 2 together... can contribute to difficulty mounting a tire... imagine if it was tubeless road.

Anecdotal story...
for my cross bike... with Stan's Alpha 400 rims.... I can mount the Specialized The Captain 2BR (tubeless ready) by hand. With the* Vittoria* Cross XG Pro (TNT, Tube No Tube), it requires levers to get the bead to pop on.


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## tednugent (Apr 26, 2010)

rruff said:


> Ya... two layers are needed for high pressure over the holes, and the 12mm strip does that fine. I goofed when I said 24mm... 12mm and 21mm is what I use also.


2 layers (of Stan's tape) are required when you're running tubeless due to the high pressures of road tubeless. On low pressure setups (ie MTB or Cross), you can get away with a single layer. 2 layers is better insurance for sealing.

Running tubed, 1 layer is sufficient, as the tube itself provides the second layer.


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## GRAVELBIKE (Sep 16, 2011)

I mounted Hutchinson Sector 28 tubeless tires on my SL23's last night. It was more difficult than the non-tubeless tires that I've used (with those rims), but once mounted, the beads snapped into place using only a floor pump.


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## Wines of WA (Jan 10, 2005)

I just received my SL23 wheels from Zen and mounted 4000S 25c tires with slightly beefier Maxxis Welterweight tubes last night. The tires were a little tighter than average, but I got them on without incident using two standard nylon tire levers. Once the beads stretch a bit, I'll probably be able to change a flat with my bare hands.


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## bikerjulio (Jan 19, 2010)

tednugent said:


> Tubeless cross section when you look at it, has a bench for the bead sit on.
> 
> If you look at iirc, velocity a23 pre-tubeless, it does not have that bench.


Yes you are right. However the bead does not sit on the "bench" when mounting.

My point was that this issue did not suddenly come up when tubeless ready rims appeared. There have been lots of threads in the past about difficulty with some brands of "conventional" rims and tires.

Had my first flat today and reinstalled the PR4 with no particular difficulty. About the same as the Campy neutrons I have from that point of view.


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## chudak (Jul 28, 2012)

I just mounted the first tire (brand new GP4000s) on a set of these wheels I just got from a builder. It was hard even getting the first bead installed and then pushed over far enough to expose the hole for the valve stem. I used a lever to pry the bead on in this case.

As for finishing the mount of the tire I did it without using a lever using the hand roll method. It was definitely a tough mount but not impossible. You just need to learn the technique.


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## Clipped_in (May 5, 2011)

Jay Strongbow said:


> I'm just curious.....how many of you who have problems getting a tire and tube on this rim have used another tubeless ready rim? Did you find that any better?
> 
> It's my understanding that they all suck for getting tires on easy and I have a feeling these complaints are not unique to this rim but unique to tubeless ready rims.


All of the "tubeless ready" 23mm rims are tight and difficult to mount with standard rim strips or cloth tape, but if you will simply go with the Stan's tape as recommended previously in this thread it is a non-issue. Use the 21mm for a perfect fit.

Or, if you can find "Premium Tensilated Polypropylene Strapping Tape" it is the same thing. It is an industrial tape that comes in a nominal 3/4" width, but it is usually sold by the case...


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## chudak (Jul 28, 2012)

chudak said:


> I just mounted the first tire (brand new GP4000s) on a set of these wheels I just got from a builder. It was hard even getting the first bead installed and then pushed over far enough to expose the hole for the valve stem. I used a lever to pry the bead on in this case.
> 
> As for finishing the mount of the tire I did it without using a lever using the hand roll method. It was definitely a tough mount but not impossible. You just need to learn the technique.


I have to come back hat in hand and amend this post...

I tried mounting a well used GP4000s that came off my old front wheel on my new Pacenti SL23 rear wheel and it was not nearly as easy as mounting a new tire my Pacenti SL23 front wheel was. Probably because the rubber was not 'slick' since it wasn't new. Getting the last part on was a bear. Worked up a nice sweat and had to use some Park levers to pry that bastage on. Definitely on the hunt for the Crank Brothers lever.


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## GRAVELBIKE (Sep 16, 2011)

chudak said:


> I have to come back hat in hand and amend this post...
> 
> I tried mounting a well used GP4000s that came off my old front wheel on my new Pacenti SL23 rear wheel and it was not nearly as easy as mounting a new tire my Pacenti SL23 front wheel was. Probably because the rubber was not 'slick' since it wasn't new. Getting the last part on was a bear. Worked up a nice sweat and had to use some Park levers to pry that bastage on. Definitely on the hunt for the Crank Brothers lever.


Soap and water is your friend here.


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