# Is my Frameset a Pig?



## Lelandjt (Sep 11, 2008)

I built my frame up without weighing it and Google searching turns up nothing. While I was bolting on some lighter parts my co-worker said he thinks I'm carrying a couple pounds in the frame and fork compared to the Roubaixs and Tarmacs around our shop. Does anyone know or have an educated guess what a 2008 60cm Kestrel Talon SL frame weighs? How about the aluminum steerer Kestrel "Fluid Design RT" fork?
Here's a pic of the frame. My fork has slightly different paint but I think it's the same:









I do fast, solo rides so I like the aero. How much do top shelf aero road frames and forks weigh?


----------



## moskowe (Mar 14, 2011)

Short answer: yes, it's heavy. Aero frames in general are heavier than non-aero ones, and this being a Kestrel I wouldn't be surprised if it was heavier than your standard aero bike. 

A little bike of looking around on Bikesdirect shows standard frame weight for a 2010 Talon at 1.2kg. Assuming no progress in frame design since 2008 that's a pretty heavy frame by today's standards, where most frames are sub-1000. 
Actually, the Kestrel brochure from 2008 says 1.1kg but I'm willing to bet that's for a small frame with no paint and all the small parts removed, which would confirm the 1.2kg weight from BD.
The Kestrel website puts the full-carbon fork for the 2010 version at 410 grams, so with an aluminium steerer on yours (assuming it's the same model as the Fluid Design RT, which has an aluminium steerer) expect 450-500 grams. That's also pretty heavy for a fork. 

You'd probably save at least 300 grams going to a "top-shelf aero frame" but then again, that's the weight of 2/3 of a water bottle. What I think would be more interesting would be switching for a brand with better frame design. Personal opinion.


----------



## Lelandjt (Sep 11, 2008)

Alright, 300g or 3/4lb total difference for frame and fork. That's about what I thought but my co-worker was eluding to twice that. I'm happy with the bikes geo, aero, and performance. It's a little harsh on rough pavement but whatever. For how cheap this frameset was and what it would cost for a lighter one I can live with a sub-1lb difference.


----------



## Camilo (Jun 23, 2007)

Um, weigh the whole bike - that's all that matters.


----------



## xjbaylor (Dec 28, 2006)

I would guess that the numbers Moskowe stated are a little low. For comparison, my 52cm (55 ETT) Lapierre Xelius FDJ (the same bike FDJ/Bigmat rode in 2012) weights in at 1004g for a medium, and the EC90sl fork came out to 396g (uncut.) For reference, that is a non-aero tour caliber frame that was claimed to weigh 850g. The weight Kestrel quotes would have it weighing less than a Cervelo S3, which is possible, but not that likely. 

That doesn't really mean much, but if you are trying to ballpark the weight I would imagine closer to 1400g for the frame, and I would second Moskowe's guess of 450-500g for the fork.


----------



## Lelandjt (Sep 11, 2008)

Thanks for more insight but that's just kicking me in the balls (wallet). I'm trying to justify NOT upgrading the frame and fork. Oh well, the rest of my build has gotten pretty light to where the bike is under 18 with aerobar and bottle cage. That'll have to do until some amazing deal comes along (not likely for a 61cm frame).

In another thread when the topic of "slow, rich riders who don't deserve the best frames" came up someone mentioned that no one is out donating top frames to the fast, young, poor riders who do "deserve" them. Too bad, there should be an S5 for whoever owns the most KOMs in their area


----------



## lechat67 (Sep 28, 2007)

The frame could be built onto a sub 15lb bike without breaking the bank, but that fork's gotta go. Look for 1 ~350gms uncut. Then start looking at wheels and the crank for starters.


----------



## Lelandjt (Sep 11, 2008)

I'm building a wheelset that should be fairly light despite a 50mm deep rim. A FSA SL-K Light crank is on the way. I'll keep an eye out for a light/cheap fork.


----------



## metoou2 (Mar 18, 2009)

heavy, light.............it looks great


----------



## Lelandjt (Sep 11, 2008)

Thanks, I do like the traditional look of a flat top tube and the aero flair is cool. It's fast on the flats but compared to the 12-15lb bikes I'm around a lot it felt sluggish to accelerate and didn't seem to float up the climbs as effortlessly. It was 19.3lb at the beginning of this weight loss but dropping fast. I found a Control Tech Lightning fork for $180 at 340g uncut that I'm waiting for now. Sounds like that'll drop around 150g. Once that, cranks, pedals, rims, QR, and bolts are on I'll weigh it and update.


----------



## moskowe (Mar 14, 2011)

Honestly if you're going to spend money on wheels, cranks, pedals, QR and bolts (*sigh*) you have more than enough money to get a decent frame. There's plenty of sub-1000$ opportunities if you look around.


----------



## Lelandjt (Sep 11, 2008)

All those parts were very cheap (mostly used) and will transfer to a new frame when the opportunity arrises. Just new rims btw, my spokes are breaking so I'm re-lacing lighter rims to my hubs.


----------



## Lelandjt (Sep 11, 2008)

*Update*

The parts upgrade is complete and it turned out way lighter than I expected. Light enough to be under the "UCI minimum" and lighter than any bike I've owned so I no longer care if the frame and saddle are a little heavy since I like them for other reasons. 16lb with computer and bottle cage, 16.75lb when I add the aero bar.


----------



## moskowe (Mar 14, 2011)

UCI minimum = under 15 pounds. Still got a little bit to go...
I have to say, (as you probably guessed) I'm really not a fan of Kestrel, but this is a pretty good looking build. I like the black/yellow. Now go wash that bartape.


----------



## Lelandjt (Sep 11, 2008)

I thought it's 16.6? That bar tape is so old and hard on the hands. It's getting changed soon.


----------



## MrMook (Nov 18, 2007)

Is that aerobar set up right, or just set _upright_?


----------



## moskowe (Mar 14, 2011)

The UCI weight limit is 6.8kg. That's 14.99 pounds.
From your friendly USAC website...


----------



## Lelandjt (Sep 11, 2008)

MrMook said:


> Is that aerobar set up right, or just set _upright_?


Yeah, it mounts directly to the stem and follows its angle. I couldn't find the stem in 0* and had to settle for 80/100*. In 80* the bar sloped too far down, little weight was on the pads and lots on the hands. It felt like it was overloading the bar and felt sketchy handling. In the 100* position it looks way up, feels fine, but probably isn't optimally aero. I'm still looking for a 100mm, 90*, 31.6 Profile Lava or Hammer stem.


----------



## Camilo (Jun 23, 2007)

Lelandjt said:


> ... It's fast on the flats but compared to the 12-15lb bikes I'm around a lot it felt sluggish to accelerate and didn't seem to float up the climbs as effortlessly. ...


First, you ride "a lot" with sub-15 pound bikes? Based on objective weights or bragging rights? No offence intended, but I doubt the difference between your bike's weight and those bikes' actual weights are what makes you feel sluggish compared to them. But I'm just speculating which is worth what I'm charging for my opinion .



moskowe said:


> UCI minimum = under 15 pounds. Still got a little bit to go...
> I have to say, (as you probably guessed) I'm really not a fan of Kestrel, but this is a pretty good looking build. I like the black/yellow. Now go wash that bartape.


Yea, and that last 1.5 pounds of lost weight will be a lot more expensive than the previous 1.5. But a 16.5 pound bike is pretty nice and light - not going to "feel" heavy and expecially not going to hold anyone back in anything but elite racing. 

A little 409 or general citrus cleaner and a scrubbing spong or terry cloth rag will really clean up bar tape to almost new condition, even with chain grease on them (at least when viewed from more than 3 feet away). A rinse with plain water afterwards to get the soap residue off. There's no reason to have filthy handlebar tape if a guy doesn't like it.


----------



## Lelandjt (Sep 11, 2008)

I'm a shop mechanic so I get to play with a lot of very light bikes (just built an 11lber). There's a decent number of wealthy regulars who bring their bikes in for work and sometimes I ride with them. When I say their bikes felt noticeably lighter that's cuz the Kestrel was 19lb! It's lost 3lb for $1000 and I'm very happy with the current weight of the bike and have no motivation to spend more money on it. Now it has that light snappy feel.

I've never bothered to clean bar tape but perhaps I'll try it in the future. This tape's got no cushion anymore (maybe 5 years old and re-wrapped 2 times?) so new stuff is going on soon.

The comment about the aero bar motivated me to search more for a 90° stem and I found one! In a few days my handlebars will drop a little and the aero bar angle will drop 10°. Much more dialed feeling and looking!


----------



## moskowe (Mar 14, 2011)

A shop mechanic who doesn't clean his own bartape ? Where I come from that's a crime that carries capital punishment


----------



## Lelandjt (Sep 11, 2008)

moskowe said:


> A shop mechanic who doesn't clean his own bartape ? Where I come from that's a crime that carries capital punishment


Remember, I'm a mountainbiker who just masquerades as a roadbiker during the winter. I'm used to dirty grips and tires, never occurred to me to keep those parts clean.



duxia303 said:


> i also want to know...


I'm pretty sure the fork is 480g with a longish steerer tube. For the frame 1400g sounds about right for my 60cm. Seeing one on a scale would be nice though.


----------



## DrSmile (Jul 22, 2006)

My RT700 gives me the fastest ride, even compared to my lighter bikes. Aerodynamics matter a lot cruising, and for whatever reason it seems to be very aerodynamic. Kestrel may argue it's the frame, my guess though is my head is lower because of the shorter head tube compared to my true road frames. I weighed my RT700 frame and it was under 1130 grams. Even light frames that spec under 1000 grams are usually over 1000 grams when you put them on the scale (they usually don't include stuff that's integrated in the Kestrel frame, like a seatpost clamp), so the weight penalty for the aero frame is really very small. The fork was heavy, but you can always swap in an Enve fork and drop half a pound!


----------



## Lelandjt (Sep 11, 2008)

I got the 0 degree stem and it puts the aero bars at a nicer angle, drops the bars a touch and looks better.









Here's some bonus bike porn since I had the camera and bikes out, my Enduro race bike: 7" travel, 28lb.


----------



## mike5734 (Mar 25, 2012)

I agree, it does looks great! Although I have always read that Kestrel frames are heavy but I've never owned one.


----------



## Zachariah (Jan 29, 2009)

Replace that boat anchor ControlTech fork with a Scott CR1 Superlite(312g uncut) or a Look HSC5 SL(303g uncut). Now, good luck finding them...but both are crazy stiff and light.

I had a Kestrel Talon before. The frame felt "dead." I upgraded to a Cervelo R3 then S2 and now current Cdale.


----------



## Lelandjt (Sep 11, 2008)

The Controltech fork was only 340g uncut and $180. Anything better I found was way more expensive and often tapered. It dropped about 1/4lb from the stock Kestrel fork. This frame is definitely stiff both laterally and vertically so yeah, dead. It rides like a very aerodynamic brick. But that suits me cuz I just want to go fast for 1-3 hours on the cheap. I wish it wasn't quite so harsh over a 2mi section I occasionally ride and of course I wish it was 300g lighter.

My friend owns both a Venge and Tarmac. He says the Venge feels fast but kind of dead and makes him sore on longer rides so he prefers the Tarmac. What a slow p*ssy, haha.


----------

