# Formul Xero XR1



## grizwald (Feb 10, 2006)

*Formula Xero XR1*

Caveat Emptor!
I was looking for an inexpensive training wheelset for everday use. I checked reviews here and elsewhere on the net and decided to try the above wheelset. When I spoke to the salesman at Price Point I inquired as to their past experiences with that wheelset, he said they'd hadn't heard any bad things about them, so based upon that response and the reviews I'd read, I ordered a set. The wheels came in last Friday, looked nice, decent looking sealed bearings. Quick releases look identical to the Nuevations, I'd say, odds are they are both produced in the same factory in Taiwan.

I installed the wheels Friday night for use on Saturday mornings club ride. I knew after the second warm up lap around the parking lot I'd made a mistake. Having been riding bikes for about 18 years now I can without a doubt say that the xr1's are by far the flexiest, scariest wheelset I have ever ridden! FWIW, I am 175 lbs, not quiet a Clydesdale.

I promptly removed the wheelset Saturday afternoon expecting to seek a refund from Price Point. After reading the fine print on the back of my reciept, I understood that their policy for reurns/refunds was that the product "be in new/unused condition". So, I decided that before I'd risk blowing another $30 sending them back to Price Point, I'd call customer service and explain the situation. The guy clarified theand "new/unused condition", I explained to him that the wheels had about 30 miles on them, the amount of flex I experience scared the hell out of me and that I was very uncomfortable and feared hat one of them could easily shell out on me an potentiall trash my body/my bike or worse yet, both. He alluded to the fact that I was not the first customer to express concerns or complaints about that wheelset. To which i responded by inquiring as to " why do you still sale them then?" He responded, "because people buy them"
I told him that the only I had thouroughl;y cleaned the wheelset up, that the rims did not show any braking wear, but that the splines on the cassette showed the dings that are inevitable once a cassette has actually been installed an ridden. I emailed the Price Point customer service rep a few pictures of the wheels, yesterday morning, asking them to evaluate the signs or wear as acceptable or not given the situation and to get back with me. No return email, no return phone call. I called back this afternoon, asked the guy if he received the pictures. yes, and that the wear was unacceptable. 
My $0.02 worth, I would definelty advise against buying an XR1 Wheelset, and secondly, expect squat from a customer satisfaction standpoint from Price Point.
Attached are pictures of the splines.


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## grizwald (Feb 10, 2006)

picture #2


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## rruff (Feb 28, 2006)

People have very different perceptions about wheel flex. For instance, riders generally report Ksyrium SLs as being very stiff, yet they have a lot of lateral flex. I doubt these flex more than other 16/20 spoke wheels. Were the bearings/axles loose maybe? What sort of strange sensations did you experience that were "scary"? What tires were you using?


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## grizwald (Feb 10, 2006)

no bearing slop. The lateral flex was extreme under even mild out of the saddle sprints, only noticeable in the rear, fishtailed/wallowed, made it difficult to control the bike. I definetly would not brave a full out sprint on these wheels myself.

vittoria action HSD tires, same tire(s) I've ridden on about 5 different wheelsets now.


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## rruff (Feb 28, 2006)

Is this a zero dish or low dish hub by any chance?


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## omniviper (Sep 18, 2004)

i have the same wheels but i dont notice flex that much. but them im only 135 lbs.... go figure


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## metricEee (Aug 28, 2002)

*check the rear hub*

The rear is designed to be taken apart really easily, only problem is it can often times work itself loose. I've got an XR carbon and the rear hub can loosen and it feels a lot like you are describing.


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## grizwald (Feb 10, 2006)

rruff said:


> Is this a zero dish or low dish hub by any chance?


I don't believe so.


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## thewheelworks (Sep 28, 2006)

These wheels are stock on some bikes. Marin used them also. The rims are made by Alex, the hubs are made by Chin Haur in Taiwan and the spokes are Chun Nan. The hubs are the SAME ones that Velocity uses for their wheels. The spokes are the issue. Chun Nan makes some seriously scary spokes. Very flexible, VERY inaccurate. They are nice wheels if you rebuild them with DT Swiss Spokes. Turn the tension up a bit also and they would work well for your weight.


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## omniviper (Sep 18, 2004)

thats strange. i have the paper that came with my zeroes.

it says hub type: rb-92, rb-37(rear)

spoke type: dt competition db 14/15G
stainless steel with brass ni[[;es

rim type: xero xr-320 with cnc sidewalls etc.

where did you get the info that they were made by alex and chin haur?

if so, that would explain why the wheels feel a bit flexy, espcially when i hit potholes


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## stevecaz (Feb 25, 2005)

thewheelworks said:


> The rims are made by Alex, the hubs are made by Chin Haur in Taiwan and the spokes are Chun Nan. The hubs are the SAME ones that Velocity uses for their wheels. The spokes are the issue. Chun Nan makes some seriously scary spokes. Very flexible, VERY inaccurate. They are nice wheels if you rebuild them with DT Swiss Spokes. Turn the tension up a bit also and they would work well for your weight.



Yes Omniviper, that claim is strange. My XR-1 set has DT spokes as indicated by the little DT on the ends. They are double-butted and appear 14/15 as they claim to be. I doubt that a major company would be attempting forgery by adding fake DT emblems the spokes. Is Chin Haur the same company as Formula, because Xero is simply the in-house wheel brand for Formula, a large OEM supplier. Both are Taiwan based, but are they the same company? My google search seems to say no.


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## thewheelworks (Sep 28, 2006)

I am familiar with the wheels because we sell them and the other brand out there. Chin Haur is the maker of the hubs for Formula. They also make the hubs for Ritchey, American Classic, Velocity, Spinergy and WTB to name a couple more. Alex makes the rim for this wheel. Check out the Alex site and you will see the rim available aftermarket. As for the spokes, unless they have changed in the last two years, I have known and seen these wheels built with Chun Nan Spokes. The CN on the head looks odd though. Not very clear or pronounced. If they are DT on your wheels, I would recommend upping the tension a bit. The rim is not the lightest so it can handle the tension as well as the hub and spokes. I would be careful to use something to hold the spoke though, like a Twist Resist Spoke Clamp. It makes the tension more accurate and prevents wind-up.


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## rruff (Feb 28, 2006)

thewheelworks said:


> Chun Nan makes some seriously scary spokes. Very flexible, VERY inaccurate.
> 
> If they are DT on your wheels, I would recommend upping the tension a bit. The rim is not the lightest so it can handle the tension as well as the hub and spokes. I would be careful to use something to hold the spoke though, like a Twist Resist Spoke Clamp. It makes the tension more accurate and prevents wind-up.


The "flexibility" of any stainless steel spoke is solely proportional to it's cross section... so a Chun Nan spoke will be just as stiff as a DT spoke with the same dimensions.

Increasing the tension will not make the wheel stiffer unless the OP was experiencing a complete slackening of the spokes on the NDS. If this is the case, then he should check DS tension and see if it is in spec (ie safe for the rim and hub). If it is, then he should not mess with those spokes... but rather replace the NDS with Revs if he wants to try to fix the problem. If the DS tension is not within spec, then increasing it would help, as you mentioned. What do you think the safe tension would be?

I think a better method for "preventing" windup is to mark the spokes so twist can be seen and accounted for... and lubricate the spoke/nipple/rim interfaces. I've never tried one, but Jobst Brandt claims that clamps simply don't work... the spoke will twist anyway and probably get scratched in the process. At any rate a 1.8mm spoke will not tend to twist very much.


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## jmoryl (Sep 5, 2004)

thewheelworks said:


> These wheels are stock on some bikes. Marin used them also. The rims are made by Alex, the hubs are made by Chin Haur in Taiwan and the spokes are Chun Nan. The hubs are the SAME ones that Velocity uses for their wheels. The spokes are the issue. Chun Nan makes some seriously scary spokes. Very flexible, VERY inaccurate. They are nice wheels if you rebuild them with DT Swiss Spokes. Turn the tension up a bit also and they would work well for your weight.


This information seems suspect. Formula is quite a big OEM supplier for hubs: are you saying that their name is Chin Haur in Chinese? Why wouldn't Formula make their own rims - they appear to be a major competitor to Alex? I'm sure there is more than 1 company in Taiwan making rims. 

And I have seen the XR1 wheels and they do have DT spokes. By most accounts they seem to be a good bang for the buck wheel. Too bad the OP had such a poor experience with them.


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## thewheelworks (Sep 28, 2006)

Formula is actually not a Tawainese company. They are an Italian company. They make alot of products, disc brakes and wheels being a couple. The wheels that they make are a magnesium one piece wheel. Usually used on mopeds, scooters and sometimes on Bicycles like electric bikes. The wheels they make are very heavy but super solid. Alex is one of the largest rim makers in the world. They make their own, Salsa, Ritchey, WTB and Surly to name a few. Next to Mavic, they are one of the biggest. The hubs are Chin Haur hubs. Just as American Classic is an OEM company, very few now days make all fo their own products. Not just because of cost to start the production, but because of the cost of labor. Chin Haur is not Formula. But, they do make their hubs. Chin Haur also makes some headsets for some people like American Classic, Ritchey, Cane Creek(who makes their own hubs in the USA) and many others. You would be surprised by the amount of products this one company makes. Many US makers go with the same company due to convienence as well as playing the manufacturer against itself trying to get cheaper prices. 

Does that help answer things?

I know this because I have dealt with the companies on an inside level. Not just as a bike guy or a shop owner.


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## jmoryl (Sep 5, 2004)

thewheelworks said:


> Formula is actually not a Tawainese company. They are an Italian company. They make alot of products, disc brakes and wheels being a couple. The wheels that they make are a magnesium one piece wheel. Usually used on mopeds, scooters and sometimes on Bicycles like electric bikes. The wheels they make are very heavy but super solid. Alex is one of the largest rim makers in the world. They make their own, Salsa, Ritchey, WTB and Surly to name a few. Next to Mavic, they are one of the biggest. The hubs are Chin Haur hubs. Just as American Classic is an OEM company, very few now days make all fo their own products. Not just because of cost to start the production, but because of the cost of labor. Chin Haur is not Formula. But, they do make their hubs. Chin Haur also makes some headsets for some people like American Classic, Ritchey, Cane Creek(who makes their own hubs in the USA) and many others. You would be surprised by the amount of products this one company makes. Many US makers go with the same company due to convienence as well as playing the manufacturer against itself trying to get cheaper prices.
> 
> Does that help answer things?
> 
> I know this because I have dealt with the companies on an inside level. Not just as a bike guy or a shop owner.


OK, maybe you are correct. But what you say does not seem to jibe with what is on Formula's own website: http://www.formulahubs.com/. Their address is in Taiwan, and never is the word 'Italy' mentioned. Yes, I understand the massive amount of outsourcing/OEM stuff that goes on in the bike business, but I'm still surprised by your response.


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## WrongBikeFred (Oct 19, 2005)

Sorry you blew the cash. As far as advice, I get it from an LBS. With PricePoint and the like, you get what you pay for. If I am tryin new stuff, I usualy buy it at my LBS. If I am replacing, I get it online.


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## stevecaz (Feb 25, 2005)

rruff said:


> The "flexibility" of any stainless steel spoke is solely proportional to it's cross section... so a Chun Nan spoke will be just as stiff as a DT spoke with the same dimensions.


I disagree, it is also a factor of the stainless alloy used and the type of constructions. Spokes are made from extruded wire. The quality of the extrusion and density of the metal would affect the wire properties. There are also different processes used to make double butted spokes which would affect its properties.


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## stevecaz (Feb 25, 2005)

*Can anyone get into Support area of Xero website for XR-1*

If you click on support in the Xero website, they have links to replacement part manuals. Supposedly there are 22 manuals over 3 pages. But I can't seem to find the button to see the next page. The little forward arrow at the bottom just goes to the FAQ section. 

Can anyone else get to these pages?

I'd just like to get the replacement parts manual for future reference.


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## grizwald (Feb 10, 2006)

FWIW, I looked at my spokes the other day, they do appear to have DT stamped on the jbend's head.


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## ChilliConCarnage (Jun 1, 2006)

grizwald said:


> no bearing slop... vittoria action HSD tires, same tire(s) I've ridden on about 5 different wheelsets now.


I'm also 175, and had the same wheelset, with the exact same tires. I didn't have the same problems, so it sounds like something is definitely defective.

As far as the spokes go, I think the DTs are only on the XR1 model - the oem wheels that Giant / Marin / Felt / etc. have put on their bikes in the past are the XR3 or XR4 models - I believe those aren't DT - maybe those are the Chun Nan?


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## stevecaz (Feb 25, 2005)

*The XR-1 Windup Issue*

I think I've found the issue with my fork shuddering. Since I got both the XR-1 wheels and the Lemond frame at the same time, I was thinking the shuddering was an issue with the Bontrager Race XXX Lite fork. Well after testing certain items with the brakes I went to another wheelset in the bike and experienced no shuddering. 

I believe its caused by windup forces with the XR-1 wheels. With such few spokes, the windup resistance is much lower than my former 28 spoke radially laced front wheel Meaning, as I brake the rim is being torqued backwards around the center hub. It reaches a point where the increased resistance springs it back and again torques backward as long as the brakes are applied. This causes the shuddering motion. All wheels will have a tiny amount of windup (is there a better word?). But with only 16 spokes on normal sized flanges, the XR-1 front has much less resistance to it. 
This seems like a very logical explanation. 

I'm sure the amount of shuddering will vary from bike to bike with either straight or curved forks and super light to heavier duty forks.


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