# Scs - wtf?



## Appendage

I'm interested in a Diverge, but the Specialized SCS hub baffles me, and may be a deal breaker. I thought the whole idea behind going from 130mm OLD to 135mm was to improve the drive-side bracing angle. So Specialized, in order to solve a problem that I haven't heard anyone complain about, scoots the freehub inboard 2.5mm so it'll match the chain line of a 130mm hub. As a result, the DS flange has also been moved inboard, resulting in no improvement in the bracing angle. The system uses a special derailleur hanger. If you want to use a standard wheelset, you have to change derailleur hangers. I’m interested in the Specialized Diverge, but the SCS hub baffles me, and may be a deal breaker. I thought the whole idea behind going from 130mm OLD to 135mm was to improve the drive-side bracing angle. So Specialized, in order to solve a problem that I haven't heard anyone complain about, scoots the freehub inboard 2.5mm so it'll match the chain line of a 130mm hub. As a result, the DS flange has also been moved inboard, eliminating any improvement in the bracing angle. Moreover, the system uses a special derailleur hanger. So if you like to swap wheelsets for whatever reason, you have to also swap hangers, unless you build your alternate wheelsets with Specialized SCS hubs, or unless you dump the OEM wheelset and hanger altogether, at which point the whole idea of buying one of these things goes out the window.

Am I missing something here? http://service.specialized.com/collateral/ownersguide/new/assets/pdf/0000040845.pdf


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## Donn12

I was trying to decide between a synapse and a diverge and I was bothered by the same thing. I went with the synapse, partially because of the hub issue and also because I have a CX bike so I thought the diverge would be redundant.


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## zep

*Diverge wheel re-fit*

Yeah...SCS does strike me as a solution to a problem no one knew they had. Will say, though, the Diverge shifting is flawless and super quiet. Still, if SBC used 12x142mm spacing on the Diverge, we'd not need this discussion. 

My Stan's Grail wheelset did retrofit to the Diverge without trouble, using the standard Diverge 'SCS' hanger. To convert the Grail hub, use the 3.30RD hub 142mm thru-axle, with the 135mm end caps...the alignment is spot-on, just needs a slight tweak to the derailleur limit screws, to be perfect. This means that other Stan's wheelset using the 3.30RD hub (such as the Iron Cross) *should* also retrofit easily. As always, YMMV...but it worked fine on my Diverge Carbon Expert. Just be careful, as the 3.30RD & RD Ti hub has a unique shell, so it's axle is also unique from the rest of the Stan's hubs. The Stan's tech center will tell you there is no 12x135mm conversion possible, so save yourself the bother of asking. 

The Stan's Grail wheelset, shod with Hutchinson Sector 28c tire, dropped the weight of the Diverge almost exactly 1 pound, from the stock wheelset. The stock wheels really are not comparably heavy, at 1690 grams (stripped of all but rim strips, on my scale), but I had the Grails from another bike, and wanted to try them. The Grails are not that much lighter (about 1620 grams, when setup as thru-axle, on my scale), but the Sector tires, used tubeless with sealant, save substantial weight from the stock 350 gram tire / 135 gram tube configuration. The stock tires *are* awesomely sturdy for gravel and dirt, BTW, and surprisingly fast on pavement...ditto for the stock wheels. For the record, I've had zero issues with the stock wheels or tires, on a number of long & fast tarmac/gravel routes, that included miles of very sharp gravel and embedded rocks. 

Bike Hub Store and dbop cycling both have quality hubs that fit the 12x135mm thru-axle standard, available at reasonable prices, should you want to roll your own wheels. Just FYI. 

I'm still a bit of a PITA weight-weenie, which I've just proven, yet again....


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## Appendage

Zep, do you notice an deterioration in shifting due to chain line when running the Stans wheels? BTW, I asked my local Specialized dealer about this whole issue, and they're stumped.


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## zep

*SCS...why ask why?*

Yup, same with the local, "premier", Specialized dealer, here. Somewhat comical, yes?

But no, shifting remains quite fine, with the Grail wheel, though was a bit harder to dial in the cable tension. Is it exactly, 100%, the same? No, but very, very, close. 

The drivetrain did become just a bit more noisy, though. I recall reading in one article from the Specialized dealer camp, mentioning that SCS reduced "grinding" (meaning drivetrain noise, I reckon). So, maybe SCS achieves it's primary goal; a disc-equipped, 11 speed, sub 42cm chainstay drivetrain, with minimal (reduced) noise. 

Would think that bumping the chainstay length up a bit might alleviate the 'need' for SCS, *and* would provide more tire clearance. Hey, even the Giant Defy has a 42cm chainstay...and no one seems to complain about the length. 

But I don't own a bike company, so what do I know...?

Anyway, the Diverge is a super-fine riding bike, so am certainly not faulting the design.


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## Appendage

It seems that a better approach would've been to go with a 73mm BB. That would give them the 2.5 mm without all the complications. It is what it is, and it would seem that the simplest approach to having an extra wheelset would be to buy a second set of SCS hubs.


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## zep

There's so little difference--practically none, really--between the shifting performance of the stock wheelset and the Grail, that I'd reckon many 12x135mm disc hubs would easily suffice. 

I further bench-tuned my rear derailleur, yesterday, and now the drivetrain noise is virtually the same as with the stock wheels. Rear shifting is--again, practically--the same as stock...say, 98% the same. So, who knows. 

I'm planning on building a carbon wheelset for the Diverge, using the Novatec D772SB-11 rear hub, which easily is configured as 12x135mm. We'll see....

No Specialized fanboy, here, and have grumbled on occasion about their business practices, just like many riders. But credit where it's due--the Diverge is awesomely capable.


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## Appendage

Thanks, Zip. Good info. The Axis 4.0 wheelset doesn't seem to get very good press, so basically it's like buying the bike with a mediocre wheelset that's not compatible with an upgrade wheelset. Geez, I'd like to buy one of these things, but they're not making it easy for me.


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## zep

Yeah, seriously...no love for the Axis 4.0 wheels, anywhere. 

The 2015 Axis 4.0 is a different spec, perhaps, then earlier years--don't know. I was prepared to hang the stock wheels from a peg in the garage and let them gather dust, but I was very pleasantly surprised...they are reasonably light (only ~ 70 grams heavier than the Stan's Grail or the HED Ardennes FR Plus Disc), easily stiff enough, and bearing smoothness is totally acceptable. Uses a wide rim--26mm, which is slightly wider than either the Grail or the Ardennes Plus, so it offers great support to the tire. Also, both the front and rear rims are asymmetrical, which I never saw reported anywhere. 

Anyway, no complaints, here (surprisingly)...they are my go-to wheelset for rough tarmac/gravel routes, and I plan to use them in several gravel events, this year, here in Oregon. 

Best of luck with your buying decision. Never thought I'd end up buying a Specialized, I can tell you that--shows you what I know....


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## Appendage

I'm right there with you, Zep. After some of their corporate shenanigans, I promised myself I'd never buy an S. There are other Diverge-style bikes out there. The GT Grade has gotten great reviews. I actually have one on order, but it won't be available for months, and there's no way to actually try before I buy. In spite of all my research, fit can be a subtle issue. If I return it, I'm not sure I'll be able to get another size. They can't keep 'em in stock. Meanwhile, I can buy a Diverge from the LBS, which is appealing. It's not as sweet a deal- and why no QRs on the thru axles? Geez. At any rate, your positive comments about the stock wheelset are encouraging and change the purchasing calculus. I'm rambling. Thanks for the info.


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## modio

Zep,

Thanks for that really helpful post. I'm similarly trying to find other wheel options for the Diverge.

I'm a little confused still. It looks to me like using a standard 135x12 MTB hub will put the freehub 2.5mm outboard relative to the SCS hub. I'm worried that this could cause rubbing of the freehub and/or chain on the frame, since with the SCS hub there's only 3mm clearance to work with.

Does using a 142x12 hub solve this (possible) problem? And, do you know if it is typical to be able to put appropriate end caps on 142x12 hubs other than Stan's?

thanks


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## zep

modio said:


> Zep,
> 
> Thanks for that really helpful post. I'm similarly trying to find other wheel options for the Diverge.
> 
> I'm a little confused still. It looks to me like using a standard 135x12 MTB hub will put the freehub 2.5mm outboard relative to the SCS hub. I'm worried that this could cause rubbing of the freehub and/or chain on the frame, since with the SCS hub there's only 3mm clearance to work with.
> 
> Does using a 142x12 hub solve this (possible) problem? And, do you know if it is typical to be able to put appropriate end caps on 142x12 hubs other than Stan's?
> 
> thanks


I know nothing beyond my experience with the Stan's Grail wheel, but based on what I've read in Velocipede Salon forum, several other MTB hubs, fitted with an 11 sp cassette, configured for 12x135mm, do *not* work, for the reason you state--not enough clearance for the cassette.

I suspect that the Stan's Grail hub *does* work 12x135mm T-A, because it's shell is similar to a 130mm road bike shell (different hub shell, and axle, than the Stan's MTB hubs). When I measured the right flange to end cap distance of both the stock hub and then the Grail configured as 12x135mm, they were very close--w/in 1mm, as I recall. Further, I would suspect that a hub like the Novatec D722SB-11, which can be configured with factory parts as either 130QR or 12x135mm, might work on the Diverge. I hope to find out. 

My Diverge came with a small bag of bits, including the derailleur hanger that's to be used with 135QR hubs. Possible that using this other hanger would allow for more and better compatibility with MTB 12x135mm hubs. I didn't try it, as I wanted the ability to easily swap back to the stock wheels. 

Never tried to adapt a 142mm hub to 135mm, other than the Stan's 3.30RD, so I'm no help, there. 

Again, the stock wheels on the Diverge Carbon, the Axis 4.0, are really a surprisingly good wheelset; stiff, very decent bearing smoothness, and under 1700 grams for the set...they stack up well, against the Stan's Grail, and the HED Ardennes Plus FR Disc, both of which are only ~ 70 grams lighter per wheelset. The stock wheels feel a bit stiffer than the Grails, to me. 

In general, it's good sport to bag on stock Specialized wheels, but these stockers seem like very decent wheels to me. Not that I was asked, so just offering my observation.


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## Appendage

*Specialized's response to my questions about SCS and tubeless ready.*

Dear Specialized,
SCS- like, wtf? And are the Axis wheels tubeless ready? 
Love,
Appendage

_No we are not touting the AXIS wheel-sets as tubeless ready – so I do not recommend road tubeless. 

Originally, SCS came from the development of the new Tarmac and the fact that we see road disc becoming more of the norm over the next two seasons…. With that disc brk. in the design goals neither SRAM nor Shimano would sell us the kits for the Tarmac because the chain line was not within their spec. 

The chain stays are short – so when in the smaller cogs and the small ring the shift ramps on the c-rings would actually pick up the chain resulting in performance problems. So to ensure that we could reach our design goals for the New Tarmac our engineers developed a revised rear hub to remedy this issue – as noted in the PDF that was attached… named it SCS. SCS has been incorporated that tech into more and more of our road disc offerings and the after-market. The one question I need to clarify is the non-Tarmac models needing to change out the read derailleur hanger if the rider wanted to go with another wheel offering. So for that stay tuned._


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## [email protected]

zep;4833083
My Diverge came with a small bag of bits said:


> You can upgrade your Carbon Diverge with every wheelset but you must use a normal QR in the rear (135x12) and you must change the derailleur hanger (from thru axle to QR). In the front you can go with a normal 15mm hub for thruaxles.
> 
> I`ve tried every combination to get my Dt Swiss 240s hub into the frame with the standard thruaxle - it didn`t work (cassette touched the frame seatstay because of the scs standard). Then I`ve used the QR Kit (other rear derailleur hanger and some parts for the normal QR - all things come with the bike), changed my hub into a 135x12 QR hub and everything work fine.
> 
> As zep wrote - the stock wheelset isn`t bad....my set (without tires, disc & cassette) is only 1680g. My Dt Swiss/Notubes Alpha 340 Disc wheelset is only 90g lighter....
> 
> Now I ride the standard wheelset because I want to use the thruaxles....


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## Appendage

*Diverge deal killer*

Well, after much discussion about the implications and options of SCS, it's an entire unrelated issue that took the Diverge off my radar- Specialized says the Axis wheels should not be run tubeless. IMHO, for this bike's intended usage, equipping it with a non-tubeless-ready wheelset is just nuts.


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## zep

Appendage said:


> Well, after much discussion about the implications and options of SCS, it's an entire unrelated issue that took the Diverge off my radar- Specialized says the Axis wheels should not be run tubeless. IMHO, for this bike's intended usage, equipping it with a non-tubeless-ready wheelset is just nuts.


Right, no tubeless--what a pain.

No good news, here: did try to set up one of the stock wheels, tubeless, just for kicks, but it was no-go. Though the stock rims appear to have something of a 'shelf with ridge' like a tubeless rim, the several tires (the Hutchinson Sector was one) I tried were way too loose. Possible that some tires might have a tight enough bead, for relatively low pressure use, not doesn't seem likely, from my experience. 

Weight weenie note: using Stan's tape in place of the stock rim strips saves 
~ 15 grams per wheel. 

Most of the gravel riders and racers that I know in these parts still use tubes, but might have been a useful option, regardless.


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## Appendage

I've been avoiding the whole road tubeless thang, but a couple weeks ago I was in a gravel race, and I was one of many who flatted on a big descent. Actually, I flatted twice. I wasn't exactly going slow but I was trying be careful to avoid the bad stuff. The experience convinced me that if I'm going off road, and I don't want to have to tip-toe the whole time, I'm going to have to go tubeless, whether I want to or not.


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## Donn12

I think it would be ideal to have two wheels sets with a bike like this. One lighter weight for narrow tires for road duty/fire roads etc, and another set for heavy duty use which would mean wide tubeless wheels at a lower psi. kind of a deal killer for me. With the synapse I am getting I can use the iron cross wheels rom my CX bike set up tubeless and a set of road wheels for the other stuff.


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## Appendage

Donn12 said:


> I think it would be ideal to have two wheels sets with a bike like this. One lighter weight for narrow tires for road duty/fire roads etc, and another set for heavy duty use which would mean wide tubeless wheels at a lower psi. kind of a deal killer for me. With the synapse I am getting I can use the iron cross wheels rom my CX bike set up tubeless and a set of road wheels for the other stuff.


EXACTLY! How wide a tire will your Synapse accomodate?


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## zep

Deleted...wrong place


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## Donn12

I don't have the synapse yet but plan to run one set with 28s and one set with 25s.


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## modio

zep said:


> I know nothing beyond my experience with the Stan's Grail wheel, but based on what I've read in Velocipede Salon forum, several other MTB hubs, fitted with an 11 sp cassette, configured for 12x135mm, do *not* work, for the reason you state--not enough clearance for the cassette.
> 
> I suspect that the Stan's Grail hub *does* work 12x135mm T-A, because it's shell is similar to a 130mm road bike shell (different hub shell, and axle, than the Stan's MTB hubs). When I measured the right flange to end cap distance of both the stock hub and then the Grail configured as 12x135mm, they were very close--w/in 1mm, as I recall. Further, I would suspect that a hub like the Novatec D722SB-11, which can be configured with factory parts as either 130QR or 12x135mm, might work on the Diverge. I hope to find out.


Just to update and perhaps offer a solution to others:

I have successfully converted the rear hub of a Roval Rapide CL 40 SCS disc wheelset to 135x12mm thru axle, to fit the Specialized Diverge, with no derailleur adjustment, hanger swap, or brake caliper adjustment. (I do not know if this conversion would work for the CLX 40 rear hub, but looking at the photos on the Specialized website, they look like the same hub body, so I suspect it might work, if the internal axles are the same.)

Here’s what I did:

Drive side: use the right side end cap that comes with the DT Swiss conversion kit part number HWGXXX0002193C. Note: this is actually the kit for a 142x12 conversion, but for some reason the right side cap is the right length. I suspect that’s because of the SCS system that moves the cassette body inboard 2.5mm, so you need the longer end cap to compensate. Anyway, it fits perfectly without modification.

Disc side: Get your hands on the left side end cap from the conversion kit part number HWGXXX0002218S. (This is the 135x12 mm conversion kit that Specialized initially told me would work for this hub, but then they took back their confused and incorrect words.) For some reason it’s been out of stock everywhere, but I found one on eBay. Here’s the sneaky part: It is the right length, but the double flanges are too wide for this hub. WTF Specialized? So, take the part, along with the wheel and QR end cap, to a friendly machine shop and buy them a 6-pack (or hand them a $20). They can throw this little piece on the lathe and machine down the flanges to match those of the QR end cap that comes with the wheel. Ta-da. Fits perfectly. You now have the thru axle SCS rear carbon road wheel you’ve been craving for your too-precious-to-fit-anything Diverge. 

Now I just have to find someone to rebuild the front wheel with a thru axle hub… That’s gonna get a little pricey.

cheers,
Silas

before:







after:


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## FeltF75rider

I just bought a Diverge Comp Carbon and I really liked the whole bike. I am guessing the stock wheels are heavy and that is the main complaint. Is there other issues with these wheels I may not hav picked up on. My plans for the bike are a winter/rain bike and I plan to ride it as is with fenders and widest tire that fits with fenders. Maybe some trail riding but not to aggressive and nothing i would need or want really high end wheels for. I have a race bike that gets all the upgrade, go fast attention. I am assuming for my goals this bike with the wheel issues will be just fine, no?


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## [email protected]

Nice to know...-axis 4.0 parts on scale (Post #49):

Specialized Diverge thru axle type? - Page 3


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## StaticSag

*Beware!!!*



modio said:


> Just to update and perhaps offer a solution to others:
> 
> I have successfully converted the rear hub of a Roval Rapide CL 40 SCS disc wheelset to 135x12mm thru axle, to fit the Specialized Diverge, with no derailleur adjustment, hanger swap, or brake caliper adjustment. (I do not know if this conversion would work for the CLX 40 rear hub, but looking at the photos on the Specialized website, they look like the same hub body, so I suspect it might work, if the internal axles are the same.)
> 
> Here’s what I did:
> 
> Drive side: use the right side end cap that comes with the DT Swiss conversion kit part number HWGXXX0002193C. Note: this is actually the kit for a 142x12 conversion, but for some reason the right side cap is the right length. I suspect that’s because of the SCS system that moves the cassette body inboard 2.5mm, so you need the longer end cap to compensate. Anyway, it fits perfectly without modification.
> 
> Disc side: Get your hands on the right side end cap from the conversion kit part number HWGXXX0002218S. (This is the 135x12 mm conversion kit that Specialized initially told me would work for this hub, but then they took back their confused and incorrect words.) For some reason it’s been out of stock everywhere, but I found one on eBay. Here’s the sneaky part: It is the right length, but the double flanges are too wide for this hub. WTF Specialized? So, take the part, along with the wheel and QR end cap, to a friendly machine shop and buy them a 6-pack (or hand them a $20). They can throw this little piece on the lathe and machine down the flanges to match those of the QR end cap that comes with the wheel. Ta-da. Fits perfectly. You now have the thru axle SCS rear carbon road wheel you’ve been craving for your too-precious-to-fit-anything Diverge.
> 
> Now I just have to find someone to rebuild the front wheel with a thru axle hub… That’s gonna get a little pricey.
> 
> cheers,
> Silas
> 
> before:
> View attachment 306673
> 
> after:
> View attachment 306672


I'm not sure who Silas is, or whether he had any success re-lacing that front wheel with a new hub, but I doubt it.

I own a 2015 Diverge Expert Carbon and picked up a set of new of Roval Rapide CLX 40 Disc SCS wheels off of ebay. Before you bother with the above advice; re-lacing that front wheel won't be easy! I went through the time, money, and effort to try and implement the fix Silas is proposing above through end cap conversion for the rear _and_ sent my front wheel to a well known wheel builder in Colorado to re-lace my front with a new 24 hole DT Swiss 240 hub. There's only one problem...the carbon wheels are directionally drilled for the goofy specialized hub that has 16 spokes on one side and 8 on the other. 

It's starting to become crystal clear that the best thing to do is be patient and buy the new Roval Control SL Disc SCS front/rear wheels that are coming out soon...and put my wheels back on ebay!


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## modio

StaticSag said:


> I'm not sure who Silas is, or whether he had any success re-lacing that front wheel with a new hub, but I doubt it.
> 
> I own a 2015 Diverge Expert Carbon and picked up a set of new of Roval Rapide CLX 40 Disc SCS wheels off of ebay. Before you bother with the above advice; re-lacing that front wheel won't be easy! I went through the time, money, and effort to try and implement the fix Silas is proposing above through end cap conversion for the rear _and_ sent my front wheel to a well known wheel builder in Colorado to re-lace my front with a new 24 hole DT Swiss 240 hub. There's only one problem...the carbon wheels are directionally drilled for the goofy specialized hub that has 16 spokes on one side and 8 on the other.
> 
> It's starting to become crystal clear that the best thing to do is be patient and buy the new Roval Control SL Disc SCS front/rear wheels that are coming out soon...and put my wheels back on ebay!


Sorry, haven't gotten around to updating my post. You're right, the front rims are drilled in an oddball 8/16 pattern, but you can get it rebuilt. The trick is to lace it to a 32 hole hub, and only lace every other hub hole on the non disc side. Ron Ruff at whitemountainwheels.com did a pro job on it for me, and has built wheels with this pattern before. Cost a little over $300 with hub and spokes & shipping. Not cheap, but probably less than buying full price new Roval wheels. I'm super happy with the way these wheels worked out. 

Silas


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## modio




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## StaticSag

Thank you for that reply! You answered multiple things, including your name...I thought modio was forwarding Silas' solution...but you are one in the same! I'm jumping ship but I am glad you found a way--and they look great!


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## mr soul

Bringing this thread back to the top, hoping for more leads on the market helping out on the whole SCS thing. I too debated the diverge vs other options and was put off by the SCS wheels, but at the end of the day, I went with the diverge expert, picked it up right before Thanksgiving and have been loving it. 

I had no trouble mounting the Axis rims that came stock up tubeless, I will admit I still run generally higher pressure but have been crushing really rough gravel roads all winter with ZERO issues or flats. 

I'd really like to get an upgrades wheelset, but so far the options that I'm aware of are still what specialized offers, either high end Roval's at nearly 1800 or 2K or the 250 set that came on the bike. 

Since many of the 2016 specialized bikes are using the SCS approach, I'm hoping the major wheel makers/hubs etc are going to start offering an SCS hub to build up, wondering if some of the internet guru's are on to any options being available yet?

I've also been considering building a 650b wheelset with fat rubber, ala the Cannondale slate approach, that paired up with a sleeker carbon "road" set would be perfect for the various rides I like to do.


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## zep

*Use the QR dropout*



mr soul said:


> Bringing this thread back to the top, hoping for more leads on the market helping out on the whole SCS thing. ...
> 
> Since many of the 2016 specialized bikes are using the SCS approach, I'm hoping the major wheel makers/hubs etc are going to start offering an SCS hub to build up, wondering if some of the internet guru's are on to any options being available yet?....


The SCS-specific derailleur dropout (which is inset 2.5mm) is the cause of the clearance problem when using a 'normal' rear hub, on these SCS specialized bikes.
Here is my solution:
My 2015 Diverge Expert came with a few pieces which allows the use of typical 10mm QR rear hub. A replacement dropout was included, for this purpose. I simply enlarged the 10mm hole in this 'normal' dropout to accommodate the 12mm thru-axle (< 5 min with a dremel). Installed the dropout, and now can use a typical 12mm T-A 135mm rear hub. Worked fine on my bike, using two different non-scs rear hubs, and I can still use the stock wheels, with a simple rear derailleur adjustment. Note that I'm not advocating this solution--YMMV. Been working for me, that's all I'm saying....
Also, I read somewhere that Specialized was planning to produce a 12mm T-A 'normal' (not SCS) dropout, so Diverge owners can instead use 12mm T-A hubs with typical spacing...alternatively, you could ask your dealer if such a dropout is now available--don't be surprised if they've not heard about it; tell them to contact Specialized, or do that yourself, first.


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## AMessy

mr soul said:


> Since many of the 2016 specialized bikes are using the SCS approach, I'm hoping the major wheel makers/hubs etc are going to start offering an SCS hub to build up, wondering if some of the internet guru's are on to any options being available yet?


Hope Is advertising SCS Hubs and Wheelsets on their website now. 

SCS ? SP24 Rear Hub/Wheel | Hope Tech | Made in Barnoldswick, England


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## zep

Update. As many already may know, Specialized has released a 'non-SCS' derailleur hanger for the Diverge (may also fit other SCS bikes, unsure). Part # S 16260004. Cost from LBS, $35. Installs easily and has allowed the use of a normal, non-SCS 12mmx135 TA hub, with no issues. Haven't noticed any degradation in shifting accuracy--zero. Easy to confirm identify of this hanger, as it's stenciled (in small lettering) with "non-scs" and the part #. 
Don't be surprised if your Spec. dealer has no knowledge of this hanger. As of last week, the part # wasn't shown on the dealer order site, per the 2 dealers I contacted, before finding another dealer with one in stock. 
Ask your dealer to call Spec. and talk with a rep.


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## TmB123

I currently have an SL4 S-Works Roubaix and am looking at a Diverge as a bit of a gravel basher alternative due to the similar geometry etc.

trying to find info on the Roval Control SL Disc SCS wheels and cannot. Are these tubeless wheels and what size tyres can be fitted on them? Woukd like to stick a 32 or 35mm on it if possible. My LBS (or all of the local shops actually) don't have any Diverge's on the floor, so making it hard to "see" what they are about and not lot of local knowledge about them either it would seem as not a particularly popular segemnt yet around here.


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## Pete in MD

I've got the 2015 Diverge Expert carbon with the 15mm TA on the front, and wanted a second identical spec wheel set for my knobbier Clement USH tires, that could be swapped out on the fly. Decided I didn't want to work around the rear SCS issues and the stock $250 Axis 4.0 SCS is good enough for me, however the set they currently sell comes with the new 2016 model 12mm front hub. I contacted Specialized and asked if the had any older sets with the 15mm front hub, or could at least also sell me a 15x100 24-hole TA hub so I could have the front wheel re-laced. Got a negative from the big S on both requests. Had two LBS also call with no resolution. I next found a new Bontrager front hub on eBay for $40 that appeared to have all the right specs so jumped on it. Got the reworked front wheel back from the LBS today and the only issue is the front disc is a little close to the outer pad. I’ll get measurements and take the brake disc to a machine shop and have the inside center flange milled down a little and all should be good. I really want to love the bike but Specialized isn't making this easy to do.


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## applen

zep said:


> Update. As many already may know, Specialized has released a 'non-SCS' derailleur hanger for the Diverge (may also fit other SCS bikes, unsure).


Yes, it does: at least on my 2016 Crux.

One thing to note about this hangar though: it's doesn't actually move the hangar (or deraileur) outboard, it instead moves the axle end-face inboard, by ~2.5mm. So when you drop a 135mm (x12mm) TA hub in there you actually have to gently pry open the frame to fit it... but, as far as I can tell, now your rim dish is off by 1.25mm because your whole wheel just got pushed over by that amount (assuming both sets of chain/seat stays flex 1.25mm, outboard, to accomodate that 2.5mm squeeze.


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## applen

I wanted to add a /success/ story: I just got some wheels that are 142x12 TA. And I was able to make them _almost_ SCS compatible (read: I use the standard SCS RD hangar). To get the brake rotor and cassette to line-up with caliper and rear deraileur on my 2016 Crux (SCS) frame I milled the non-drive (/brake) side of the 142 TA face down 2.9mm and the drive side down 0.9mm. This only gets my TA face-to-face dimension down to 138.3mm  BUT, my frame rear drop out TA-face-to-face measured dimension on my Crux is actually ~136mm, WITH stock hangar). So, I do have to lightly pry the rear frame apart a couple mm to drop this wheel in... but I'd have to do that anyway if i got a standard 135mm x 12mm TA hub/wheel that i'd have to use with the thicker non-SCS hangar (+2.5mm). This way I can swap between my axis 4.0 and new disc wheelset without pulling the RD & hangar! :beer: Also: I get 5 full threads of engagement with my rear TA (which is a bit less than the Axis 4.0 wheelset) but should be plenty! If I can get some more shop time I may shave off another 0.1mm from each face to get just that little bit more.. (my rotor sit a touch closer to the outter pad in the caliper and my barrel adjuster required 2 clicks -1/4 turn-, to get it all dialed. But yeah, it's running like a champ! Eventually I'll re-dish my wheel so that it's better centered in the frame, but since it's only about a mm off right now it's not visibly detectable and certainly not in handling (so far).


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## junkcheck

The industry itself is in a strange place. I have been trying to build a bike since February for a specific event. I don't buy complete bikes I buy frames and add or upgrade accordingly. But every offer was a complete bike spec'd to a standard I would replace. My first two frame choices were sized out and awaiting new shipment too late in season for me. 

I walk into a specialized dealer and they point to the diverge pro. Looked dope. They got one in in a few days and I laid the money down. Went to put mu kit on it and something was not right. wtf...

How is it that not one employee at any of the local Specialized shops here (RnR) knew about this before they sold me a frame? In addition how is it that not one of them has an answer? I called all three shops separately and asked for managers and top mechanics and got nothing. I know they knew nothing because they didnt even try to sell me a Roval SCS set. Of which I have no interest.

this is an otherwise great shop dont get me wrong.

But I am spending time with them and compatibility charts and blogs and suggested fixes.

I get the engineering too and it makes sense now. But the adapting is not perfect and that occupies my mind when riding. I dont like to think about the bike when I ride and worry if I have a mechanical etc..

What is it with the industry now? You cant get stuff they have been promoting for some time now like sea Otter in 2015 

Felt carbon race bike took 4 months. Shimano Pro Turnix saddle still unavailable. Shimano ultegra 11 speed 32 cassette still unavailable? its been a list like this for some time. Why is it all you can buy is a complete bike these days? We cant buy complete bikes every time we want something new right? Makes no sense especially with the number different types of bikes available now. Cross, gravel race, disc.....etc...

So I sit here trying to work out this spacing for the Diverge.

It is complicated really.

Question I still have after reading most of the above: what is the fix for the short threads now on the thru axle? it threads only half way into the dropout

I know about the Hope hub and novatec has one now.


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## applen

junkcheck said:


> Question I still have after reading most of the above: what is the fix for the short threads now on the thru axle? it threads only half way into the dropout


No fix really: 5 threads of engagement is a lot. I've not had any issues with this setup. Sure the end of the specialized TA doesn't sit flush with the outter edge of the outter face of the drive-side dropout: but it's mechanically sound. I just completed Dirty Kanza with this setup (plus a few loooong training rides ahead of it). 4x flat tires and some painful dings on the rim: but the hub was solid and fishing the wheel on off 3x of these flats was no problem.

Also: I'm running an 11-32 Ultegra cassette (purchased after-market) so maybe things are getting better...


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## rcb78

Shimano is out of 11-32 until early July, but unless you have an account and were wanting to buy direct there are plenty of places that have them in stock. Same for the saddle.


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## xefie

So - this thread is one of the top search results for Diverge SCS and Stan's Grail, figured I'd add what I've learned here to save others the trouble. 

Anyways, I was able to get the 3.30RD Grail working with the 3.30/3.30Ti 135mm end caps and 3x 18mm OD x 15mm ID x 0.2mm shims (sold by a RC helicopter vendor on amazon). Without the shims there was excessive in-out play in the freehub and the lockring rubbed against the non-SCS derailleur hanger. I assume this play would also open up a small gap in the seal near the pawls.



zep said:


> My Stan's Grail wheelset did retrofit to the Diverge without trouble, using the standard Diverge 'SCS' hanger. To convert the Grail hub, use the 3.30RD hub 142mm thru-axle, with the 135mm end caps...the alignment is spot-on, just needs a slight tweak to the derailleur limit screws, to be perfect. This means that other Stan's wheelset using the 3.30RD hub (such as the Iron Cross) *should* also retrofit easily. As always, YMMV...but it worked fine on my Diverge Carbon Expert. Just be careful, as the 3.30RD & RD Ti hub has a unique shell, so it's axle is also unique from the rest of the Stan's hubs. The Stan's tech center will tell you there is no 12x135mm conversion possible, so save yourself the bother of asking.


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## TmB123

It's good that you can add that info as an ongoing resource.
FWIW quite a few people have reported on the Diverge FB page that they have used the non-SCS hanger and standard wheels with no problems at all. Not100% sure of the configurations though with respect to QR and TA and also believe you may need a longer TA so enough threads engage.


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## xefie

TmB123 said:


> It's good that you can add that info as an ongoing resource.
> FWIW quite a few people have reported on the Diverge FB page that they have used the non-SCS hanger and standard wheels with no problems at all. Not100% sure of the configurations though with respect to QR and TA and also believe you may need a longer TA so enough threads engage.


Yup, proper 12x135 wheels work fine - I have a set using DT Swiss hubs and they work perfectly. The actual issue here is that the caps for the 3.30RD and 3.30/3.30Ti hubs are just the tiniest bit different - which is why I suspect Stans doesn't sell 12x135 caps for the 3.30RD. 

Or maybe I just have a defective set of end caps... *shrug*


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