# High-end steel race bike: Vanilla or Pegoretti?



## chiho (Jun 27, 2004)

So, I am thinking of taking the plunge for a high-end steel frame for training and racing (no crits obviously). I am thinking it might be a good choice for me: I am only 145lbs or so, and I bough a Lemond Fillmore last year (their fixed-gear road frame, steel). I ride that thing all over town and on the occaional shorter road ride, and there is no appreciable flex, at least no any more than my CAAD8. Ride quality is similiar too (not as smooth as some carbon frames I have ridden, somewhat lively, but definitely not harsh). 

This being Oregon, several of the guys in the peloton ride Vanilla, and rave about the bikes (who wouldn't?). I was seriously considering a tig-welded Vanilla, but the wait time of about 15 months is a bit of a turn-off.

My other option would be a Pegoretti Marcelo. They seem to be a bit more readily available, and highly regarded. 

Any opinions on the pros/cons of these choices? I am sure I can't go wrong either way. I like the handling of the CAAD8, and would like to stay in that range, if possible (that would become my crit/winter bike).


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## botto (Jul 22, 2005)

i guy i sometimes ride with bought the marcelo for his mid-life crisis bike.

i didn't love the graphics on it, but the construction of the bike was flawless.


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## cmg (Oct 27, 2004)

Pick up a bike you can beat up on. Vanilla and Pegoretti Marcelo are too pretty and expensive to race. Get a Giant, Specialized or race the Cannondale, search eBay for a used Colnago. If you crash those you might not be too upset, but damaging a new Vanilla is just a crime.


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## Phat&SlowVelo (Nov 27, 2004)

*I didn't know Sacha did Tig welding*

I thought he was Fillet or lugged? I actually drove buy his shop yesterday. I'm telling you I could smell it all the way out in the street, the smell of metal shop, the smell of perfection. Sacha is gonna build me a Fillet Brazed S3, and I'm sure as hell not gonna have some jackass take me out in a race and ruin it. Use your caad 8 don't waste a Piece of Art like a Vanilla or Pegoretti as a race bike.


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## fastfullback (Feb 9, 2005)

*Get the Peg.*

No offense to Sacha or Dario, but Pegoretti = race bike that's great for just riding if you want, Vanilla = a "lifestyle" bike that can be anything you want it to be. Either is bound to be extremely well made, either could make you a racer, but it seems to me that racing is the reason Pegoretti makes bikes period.

I own neither. Just my personal opinion based on owner reviews that I've read, and what my eyes tell me.


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## SDizzle (May 1, 2004)

Big Leg Emma, of course.


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## Eric_H (Feb 5, 2004)

chiho said:


> So, I am thinking of taking the plunge for a high-end steel frame for training and racing (no crits obviously). I am thinking it might be a good choice for me: I am only 145lbs or so, and I bough a Lemond Fillmore last year (their fixed-gear road frame, steel). I ride that thing all over town and on the occaional shorter road ride, and there is no appreciable flex, at least no any more than my CAAD8. Ride quality is similiar too (not as smooth as some carbon frames I have ridden, somewhat lively, but definitely not harsh).
> 
> This being Oregon, several of the guys in the peloton ride Vanilla, and rave about the bikes (who wouldn't?). I was seriously considering a tig-welded Vanilla, but the wait time of about 15 months is a bit of a turn-off.
> 
> ...


Hmmm, the justification of buying an expensive custom frame to race everything BUT criteriums is always difficult. I have seen several frames destroyed in RR crashes, probably more than in crit crashes.

There is no way I would wait 15 months for a Vanilla and then risk it in any race situation. Those bikes are like artwork on wheels and I would be way too scared to race it. The Pegoretti would be a great choice but for me it has two negatives: Italian thread BB - why do we still have this kicking around? From an engineering standpoint English threaded makes sense! Sorry, personal rant here. Also, the extended head tubes on the Pegs are a little too long for my race bike tastes.

You could also consider other custom builders with less turnaround time: Strong comes to mind, probably because I have one. FWIW, I am a steel lover as well but my current race bike is a custom Marinoni from Columbus Starship aluminum.


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## SDizzle (May 1, 2004)

Eric_H said:


> Also, the extended head tubes on the Pegs are a little too long for my race bike tastes.


That's an easy one, at least.

1) Local framebuilder or very good shop.

2) Guide, very sharp hacksaw.

3) Very sharp facer and much patience.

I've done it before on a 1/3"-thick SC Chameleon headtube, and it's not too hard. Seems like a lot to go through for a $2000 frame, but it works.


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## ru1-2cycle (Jan 7, 2006)

*High end steel road frame*

I still ride my Gios Columbus Steel frame bike- 1979, and still handles and looks GREAT.
Excel Sports is selling a very nice Gios Compact Pro frame for $795.00, half less than the listed price for the Vanilla road frame, and in my opinion just as aesthetically appealing in its attention to detail in paint and craftmanship quality.I believe they still have the whole bike set up available with Campy Centaur for about $2695.00.


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## atpjunkie (Mar 23, 2002)

*well if ya want a steel race bike*

and money sin't an option, go Pegoretti. I'd suggest Sachs but his wait time is longer than
Sacha's. Also his bikes (though they have serious race pedigrees) are again pieces of rolling art. Though nothing gives me a greater sense of love for the sport than seeing cxers thrashing their Vanilla and Sachs cx rigs. I'd suggest Pegoretti for a few reasons

a) he knows a thing or 2 about steel race bikes
b) they are available
c) you live in oregon and GVH Bikesof Oregon has Peg Palasantos on sale for $1195. 


http://www.gvhbikes.com


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## Ab24029 (Feb 20, 2006)

I just built 2 bikes CAAD8 and steel frame Fausto Coppi. I do not race. But if I would I'd probably race CAAD8. It is easier to replace if you crash, it is slightly lighter and handles great. Steel does not any advantage in ride quality in comparison to CAAD8 frame, but it is a quieter ride. Plus it looks great with thin tubing. I am planning to ride centuries on steel bike and "race" with my cycling buddies on CAAD8. Great steel bike will be still great in 5-7 years, but technology will swollow CAAD8 in 2-3 years. CAAD8 will get older faster, so race it now-it is a great frame. You could replace it later on with new race technology, but steel frame will stay the same in the same period of time.


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## Howzitbroke (Jun 1, 2005)

If it was my money, Brent Steelman is my builder of choice. Steelmancycles.com.
Tough to beat. I currently own one and used to own another that I wish I still had. I wouldn't race it though cause I'm not good enough to get anothert for free, for racing I'd get a cheapo. There are always frames on e-bay or Scattante would be cool enough for me.


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## ultimobici (Jul 16, 2005)

Eric_H said:


> The Pegoretti would be a great choice but for me it has two negatives: Italian thread BB - why do we still have this kicking around? From an engineering standpoint English threaded makes sense! Sorry, personal rant here. Also, the extended head tubes on the Pegs are a little too long for my race bike tastes.


My Marcelo's BB is tight in the shell, no problem. I do know of at least one English threaded Peg around, but it's a Fina.

The extended head tube is easy. if you don't want it Dario will build it with a reduced extension or without one at all. The reason it's there is that most normal riders don't need their bars that low. Prior to threadless headsets the stack height of the headset was a good 7mm higher so if you merely swap out the headset you drop the bars. To avoid using too many spacers with a carbon steerer he extends the head tube.

Bearing in mind his experience building for the likes of Indurain, Riis, Ullrich, Pantani, Lemond & Delgado, I'll trust his judgement.


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## atpjunkie (Mar 23, 2002)

*and if money is an object*

I agree CarlStrong makes some nice bikes. I have one all nice fancy Columbus SteelPipes, great ride and yes I'd race it.


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## zoikz (Sep 5, 2003)

*Desalvo*

I don't think anyone can match him for workmanship and price. Vanilla and Pegoretti seem more like boutique bikes. I'd totally flip over a Vanilla cruiser though. They are friggin gorgeous, and the finshing details are really artwork from a forgotten time. 
I'm in the process of building a bike with him. Columbus Zone oversize main triangle with a CF rear triangle. Should run around $1600 with custom paint from Spectrum. 
http://www.desalvocycles.com


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## Thommy (Sep 23, 2003)

*Try lickbikes.com*

They are a distributor for Gunnar bikes. I recently bought an OX2 steel tig welded Gunnar Roadie from them. The craftsmanship and paint are outstanding. And, it didn't bust the bank. The ride is real nice.


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## Fogdweller (Mar 26, 2004)

Pegoretti. No question about it. Vanilla bikes are, well... vanilla. Pegoretti stayed at my neighbors house two years ago on a visit and was a riot to hang out with. His bikes are incredible as well.


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## inGobwetrust (Apr 11, 2005)

Here is mine but in your situation there's no question:

PEGORETTI

Get a Marcelo and race!


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## Road cyclist (Jan 15, 2005)

*Go for the PEG*

I ordered a Pegoretti Marcelo and had it painted custom Ferrari Red. Wait time was
5 months, but only due to my insisting on a more conventional color. Very nice bike.
I can't see doing it different. You can't lose either way with either bike choice. 
Kind of nice when "its in the bag" ehh.


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## bigbill (Feb 15, 2005)

I bought my Pego to race. I have a Fina which is aluminum, but the geometry provides a nice ride that is on the twitchy side of neutral but I can still ride no hands and take a jacket or arm warmers off and maintain a line. The Duende is a nice model that supposedly has a better (more steel-like) ride than the Marcelo. IMHO, if you wanted a pego to race, I would choose a 8:30am frame. Just about the same as a Fina but a little heavier. They are on sale for around $1300 with a reynolds fork.


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## atpjunkie (Mar 23, 2002)

*Bill ya seen the new Love?*

Sweet, improvement on the Fina Estampa (new Scandium Tubeset). I agree 8:30 AM on sale is great race bike. Bill you an me need some Big leg though,....lust!


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## pegmarcelo (Mar 26, 2006)

*pegmarcelo*

I own a pegoretti marcelo in a 53cm. with campy rec ultra10, don't insult an italian frame this good with disposable japanese parts(ha ha) Dario makes the finest steel frames in the world. I've ridden serrotas, davidsons, waterfords and a slew of other high end steel and this is the only steel frame that reacts like carbon but offers the best vertical compliancy ive ever ridden!!!! to race this bike is a tough choice because it is a beautiful work of art and unfortunately Gita only backs their imported frames for 2 years even though I know this frame won't fail. Dario is a 2 man show and wait time is long to repaint, that's why I would suggest Tom Kellog at spectrum bikes to repair or repaint any italian steel bike you may have. Get one! I suggest


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## bigbill (Feb 15, 2005)

pegmarcelo said:


> I own a pegoretti marcelo in a 53cm. with campy rec ultra10, don't insult an italian frame this good with disposable japanese parts(ha ha) Dario makes the finest steel frames in the world. I've ridden serrotas, davidsons, waterfords and a slew of other high end steel and this is the only steel frame that reacts like carbon but offers the best vertical compliancy ive ever ridden!!!! to race this bike is a tough choice because it is a beautiful work of art and unfortunately Gita only backs their imported frames for 2 years even though I know this frame won't fail. Dario is a 2 man show and wait time is long to repaint, that's why I would suggest Tom Kellog at spectrum bikes to repair or repaint any italian steel bike you may have. Get one! I suggest


On one Marcelo review that I read, the guy dropped a small allen wrench and dented his top tube. To me, that makes a Marcelo a bike to use for long rides, to stare at longingly in the garage, to obsess over during the winter, but not to race. If you race a bike, chances are you are going to crash it. Again, 8:30am frame, not that much invested in the frame, still rides well, no tears in the parking lot after you visit the ambulance.


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## atpjunkie (Mar 23, 2002)

*agreed*

but Big Bill if I ever get stupid rich I'll order 2 Big Leg Emmas so you can have 1 to ride when ya visit.
agreed, if you are racing get the cheaper ride. it hurts less when ya crash.


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## bigbill (Feb 15, 2005)

atpjunkie said:


> but Big Bill if I ever get stupid rich I'll order 2 Big Leg Emmas so you can have 1 to ride when ya visit.
> agreed, if you are racing get the cheaper ride. it hurts less when ya crash.


If I am ever stupid rich, I want a track version of a BLE to ride on my private indoor 400m climate controlled velodrome with a killer sound system. Ron Lacey is a Gita dealer, that is who I would get mine from.


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## chiho (Jun 27, 2004)

I have elimiated the Vanilla from the equation. It seems that I don't want to wait 18 months for a frame. Also, I found a Colnago Dream that I can race (dented top tube, but is still straight, and I only paid $100 for it. It rides nice enough with tubulars).

I am still looking at a steel bike to ride everyday-I really dig the livelieness of my Lemond, and it is relatively comfortable. It isn't necessary the most pillowy ride, but definitey better than, say the Dream, or the majority of carbon bikes I have tested. Fit is kind of funky though: I fall between the 53cm (my fixed gear size) and a 55cm (too big). 

Another option for me may be a Co-Motion Espresso. The price difference between the Espresso and a Peg. Marcelo will be about $400. I did a search, but couldn't find much info w/regards to the Espresso. Another option would be Carl Strong: about the same price for me as the Co-Motion.


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