# Trying to estimate the weight of Immortal Fire with SRAM Force



## swidd (Jul 17, 2011)

What am I missing or off on the weight sheet? I assume there is some weight to the cables and cable housings - how much? 

Pedals and cycle computer, lights, seat bag with tire levers, and bottle cage will add another 0.6-0.8 kilo.


----------



## kabex (Nov 21, 2010)

It's going to be like 7.4 kilos in reality


----------



## motobecane69 (Apr 8, 2011)

i'll tell you next week when mine comes in, just ordered one today


----------



## swidd (Jul 17, 2011)

I just got mine off UPS thirty minutes ago. UPS tracking

It is not as light as that mean Cannondale bicycle I held in the store, but it is lighter than a steel/aluminum bike. It looks absolutely stunning, perfect glossy finish and deep black carbon weave - better finish than the SuperSix which had uneven clear coat or some kind of wear on the top tube (possibly been test ridden).


----------



## motobecane69 (Apr 8, 2011)

how does she look?


----------



## swidd (Jul 17, 2011)

She may be the most beautiful object I've ever owned for 30 minutes.

dark cellphone pictures of immortal fire - Imgur

Edit: And just noticed there are pedals included, despite no pedal being included according to the website. And a huge stack of user manuals and warranty information for every component on the bicycle.


----------



## Local Hero (Jul 8, 2010)

It's difficult to estimate weight. 

Your frame and fork weight wont include your headset, dustcap or spacers. The bar weights don't include the bar caps or tape. Wheel weight doesn't include QR skewers. Cables. Bolts. Derailleur hangers. Et cetera. 

On a personal note, I'm going to eventually sell my Le Champion CF frame/fork. I'll be sure to put every bit of it on a scale before I ship.


----------



## motobecane69 (Apr 8, 2011)

swidd said:


> She may be the most beautiful object I've ever owned for 30 minutes.
> 
> 
> Edit: And just noticed there are pedals included, despite no pedal being included according to the website. And a huge stack of user manuals and warranty information for every component on the bicycle.


awesome! What kind of pedals? can you get a pic of them?


----------



## motobecane69 (Apr 8, 2011)

Local Hero said:


> It's difficult to estimate weight.
> 
> Your frame and fork weight wont include your headset, dustcap or spacers. The bar weights don't include the bar caps or tape. Wheel weight doesn't include QR skewers. Cables. Bolts. Derailleur hangers. Et cetera.
> 
> On a personal note, I'm going to eventually sell my Le Champion CF frame/fork. I'll be sure to put every bit of it on a scale before I ship.


how did you like that frame? truth be told, I wanted that frame not the immortal fire but the le champion fire doesn't come in white and blue and it comes with ksyrium equipe wheels, not the ksyrium elite. The elites are much better wheels


----------



## swidd (Jul 17, 2011)

motobecane69 said:


> awesome! What kind of pedals? can you get a pic of them?


Wellgo RC-713, google reveals they are just cheapo $30 Shimano knockoffs. But they are enough to get me going first time around until I can recover the better pedals from my insurance claim bicycle, so it is awesome to receive a complete ride-ready bike as opposed to having to use walmart-style pedals the first time testing this machine. 

I'm finished building it, it looks amazing. And as far as weight goes, once fully assembled, it feels just as light as at least the Madone 5.2 I held. I at least can't tell any difference.

Had no problems with the build, just hesitant about some minor things like which way does the wheel spin and which way should I insert the QR lever, and there was a nut on the front brake caliper bolt, and I needed to find out if it goes on the inside of the fork or front of the fork... looked on the rear and it goes on the front of the caliper. Needed to center the stem, tune the brakes, tune the derailleurs, remove an epic amount of protective coverings (EVERYTHING is covered exceptionally well). I don't have a torque wrench, so I've only barely tightened anything until I can get my LBS to go over it properly. 

Tried standing over it - perfect fit! I measured my inseam at 31-32" (depending on how hard I squeeze), or 79-81cm, and geometry says it is 79cm high. At least I won't run out of seat height adjustment like on my previous "slightly small" bike with 3-4 cm nut clearance.


----------



## motobecane69 (Apr 8, 2011)

you and I are in the same boat. Had my commuting/ touring bike stolen out of my locked boiler room. got an insurance claim and decided to get the motobecane immortal force and a set of carbon tubulars from overseas. Just sold my other road bike (motobecane grand sprint, aluminum frame with carbon seat stays) to finance my new commuting bike.

Madone 5.2 is nice but my friends came with piece of crap bontrager race wheels. ridiculous they put such crap on a $3200 bike.

edit: good to hear about the build. I need to pick myself up a torque wrench set. as for your front wheel, it doesn't matter which way it goes. if the tires are directional than see what they say but most tires aren't directional.


----------



## motobecane69 (Apr 8, 2011)

so you got the 56cm frame. How tall are you? I'm 6'3, got the 62cm. my grand sprint was a 60cm that was a pretty good fit, I probably could have gone 1 size up and been fine. this geometry is similar. almost identical top tube length, little bit taller on the seat tube. I'll probably actually have a little less saddle to bar drop than on my grand sprint but my grand sprint had a huge drop


----------



## swidd (Jul 17, 2011)

5'10" in the evening, 5'11" in the morning. 56cm was the closest to the 55cm competitive cyclist fit calculator recommendation. BikesDirect recommended 53 or 54, the next smaller, I assume to give 1" under the nuts.


----------



## Local Hero (Jul 8, 2010)

motobecane69 said:


> how did you like that frame? truth be told, I wanted that frame not the immortal fire but the le champion fire doesn't come in white and blue and it comes with ksyrium equipe wheels, not the ksyrium elite. The elites are much better wheels


It's a good frame, especially for the money. 

For me, it's not the best fit. First off, I bought a 56 and should have probably gone with a 54 -- so it quite literally is not the best fit. Next, I'm a trackie and descender/crit racer and prefer a stiffer front end. I do all my racing on a tarmac sworks these days. The Le Champ CF is an excellent frame (and bike) for someone who doesn't have disillusions of winning field sprints or descending at 50mph.


----------



## motobecane69 (Apr 8, 2011)

Local Hero said:


> It's a good frame, especially for the money.
> 
> For me, it's not the best fit. First off, I bought a 56 and should have probably gone with a 54 -- so it quite literally is not the best fit. Next, I'm a trackie and descender/crit racer and prefer a stiffer front end. I do all my racing on a tarmac sworks these days. The Le Champ CF is an excellent frame (and bike) for someone who doesn't have disillusions of winning field sprints or descending at 50mph.


Makes sense, the immortal is a little more race inspired, I'm more of a long club ride and century kinda guy so I was thinking of switching to something with a little kinder geometry, but I don't mind riding the racier inspired setup for long hours so I stuck with the immortal since overall it seems to be a better deal.


----------



## swidd (Jul 17, 2011)

motobecane69 said:


> The elites are much better wheels


It was absolutely the rims that decided it for me. I could have gone with SRAM Rival or even Apex - it is all good, but having light wheels with stainless steel spokes and no need for rim tape was a big deal. Especially the rim tape, as about half the flats I had on the old bike came from the inside of the wheel, most likely rocks or dirt stuck under the rim tape that I wasn't able to get out.


----------



## swidd (Jul 17, 2011)

Just went for a test ride... not even 1/4 mile from home a pickup truck tried squeezing me out of the lane and yelled get on the sidewalk. good times. 

The bicycle is awesome. I unfortunately hit a huge (emphasize HUGE) pot hole because I wasn't used to riding so fast, and went on an unfamiliar road, but no damage to the wheel or anything. Being so super light weight it feels flimsy compared to my old hybrid wreck. 

It accelerates amazing well - slight power input and it is up to speed where wind resistance becomes the factor. 

The included pedals are pretty bad. Too small to have any feel for where they are when turning them around, and weighted on the front so they flip over and are always upside down. Once clipped in and adjusted however, they hold great and unclip great. Just not so easy to use in city traffic with lots of stops. 

Got it adjusted so it rides quietly, but had to unbolt the front derailleur and change its angle a little, as it was rubbing the plastic piece on the bottom inside of the cage on the large cog nomatter where I set the limit screws. Once I moved it it messed it all up...so I had to redo the limit screws... went for a test ride and it shifted up and down and seemed fine. Did another fine-tuning to set it precisely according to the 1-3mm spec in the SRAM install video... and went off on my ride. At one point shifting from small to large cog it took the chain off the big cog. So I'm not competent to do the adjustments, and will take it in to an LBS before any further test riding.


----------



## flatsix911 (Jun 28, 2009)

swidd said:


> What am I missing or off on the weight sheet? I assume there is some weight to the cables and cable housings - how much?
> 
> Pedals and cycle computer, lights, seat bag with tire levers, and bottle cage will add another 0.6-0.8 kilo.


Go to the Weight Weenie Bike Builder Application for a detailed interactive spreadsheet. :thumbsup:
Weight Weenie Bike Builder Application - Fair Wheel Bikes


----------



## swidd (Jul 17, 2011)

motobecane69, you've got something to look forward to. 

I've come from a hybrid road bike, so the instant and very rapid acceleration with just minor pedal input on a ~17 lbs bike is intense and fun. I haven't even tried pedaling "all out" with full down force on the pedals because of injury. But it goes WAY faster than the old hybrid, I'm guessing I was doing 25mph just at medium coasting intensity, and I was following cars through a 35mph (probably doing 25-30) zone no problem when pushing a little harder. It is so sensitive to any additional effort, it pays off to push, and makes it more fun. It is definitively a RACE bike in that it is completely stiff.

As far as comfort, it is totally perfect fit for a power position to go hard and fast. For slow comfort riding however, I think I'll need a shorter stem, but that's been the problem on my old bike as well, so I guess I have short arms. With a 2cm shorter stem, I don't think it is overly leaned forward or aggressive as I was worried about (ie. the naturally comfortable relaxed position is 2-3cm down from the hoods). For going fast however, it is perfect, so I may just leave it as is. 

It is very stiff and I sense every little vibration from the road, the only shock absorber is the tires. 

I still haven't properly tuned the front derailleur, so I don't have full range of the gears, but while in the useable gears, it is extremely quiet riding and "stealthy"... just a slight "hum" from the front wheel as it cuts the air, and a very slight sound of the chain going through the lower guide pulley on the rear derailleur. Quiet enough that pedestrians don't have a clue I'm coming! lol

The finish on the frame seems to have very thick clear coat... 

The brakes are absolutely awesome. No sounds, a gentle non-gripping gradual power, and as good stopping power as my old disc brakes, even more so when stopping from high speed. 

#1 complaint: all the instruction manual papers from SRAM were written on very thin paper folded about 10 times, and the paper was easy to rip when trying to unfold it. 

I rode about 30 miles and just came back...feels like I could have kept going, so I'll be trying a century as soon as I find an organized event! At first the road bikes I tested were "unstable" and wobbly compared to the hybrid, but with some practice the Immortal is even more precise and easier to balance in a perfect line on the edge of the bike path to yield to peds etc. It is comfortable enough to "jump" small curbs and cracks in the road - no worse than the hybrid on 700x32 with locked shock.


----------



## motobecane69 (Apr 8, 2011)

awesome info. A lot of what you report is definately because you are used to your hybrid. carbon absolutely absorbs road shock and vibration but if your used to a 32c tire on a suspension there is no comparison. but trust me, if you were riding on an aluminum road frame coming from your hybrid your teeth probably would have fallen out. I'm coming from a VERY aggressively setup motobecane grand sprint so this bike will actually setup a smidge less aggressive as the seatupbe is 2 cm taller but the top tube is about the same so I probably won't have quite as much saddle to bar drop but i expect it to fit me like a glove. 

Mine should arrive tomorrow, I can't weight!!! I highly recommend letting an lbs do the deraillleurs. Its a good skill to have but my lbs guys are so good with it and so fast it's a no brainer to let them do it and slip them $10


----------



## motobecane69 (Apr 8, 2011)

UPDATE! Love this bike! The ksyrium elite wheels are phenomenal and it pained me to sell them (when I planned to buy this bike I had already ordered a set of carbon tubulars from china and i already have a nice light set of 32 spoke velocity fusion wheels with circus monkey hubs. 1575 grams for the set and 32 spokes equal rock solid fast training wheels.

The bike is quite light, I think it weighed in at appx 16.5 lbs and I'm riding on a 62cm frame the bike looks sexy as hell and it rides really nice. This is my first carbon bike so i don't have a lot to compare to but it really feels so quick and snappy. The only thing I don't like is the width of the bars, I would prefer a slightly narrower bar probably because that is what was on my other bike and I'm used to it but otherwise in stock form, this is a great value. $1900 for COMPLETE SRAM FORCE group and Ksyrium Elite wheels? Bikes direct has a lot of good bikes but a lot of the Ultegra bikes actually have cane creek brakes or FSA cranks. this bike is a complete force groupset. looks nice and performs well. The knock on Force is that the FD is finicky, I've yet to really have any issues with it. I also don't really agree with those who say SRAM is clunky. I love how this bike shifts. quick and responseive and no issues under load. only upgrade i may consider is if I find some Red shifters for a good price somewhere but otherwise, I'm in love!


----------



## swidd (Jul 17, 2011)

I adore the feel of the SRAM shifters. Short, solid, I adjusted them all the way in so I don't have to reach out much. Even if I tap the shifter "sloppy", i.e. not pushing properly to lift the chain up a cog, the rear derailleur still snaps nicely and precisely.


----------



## swidd (Jul 17, 2011)

Btw, to raise the stem a bit, I swapped the 10mm spacer that was on top of the stem with the small 5mm that was underneath. Is that okay? It puts the stem on the tip of the steerer tube, but I didn't see any line indicating any limit. It raised it 5mm which surprisingly is enough to feel more relaxed.


----------



## motobecane69 (Apr 8, 2011)

swidd said:


> Btw, to raise the stem a bit, I swapped the 10mm spacer that was on top of the stem with the small 5mm that was underneath. Is that okay? It puts the stem on the tip of the steerer tube, but I didn't see any line indicating any limit. It raised it 5mm which surprisingly is enough to feel more relaxed.


Thats fine, a lot of bikes have no spacers at all on the top of the steerer so you are good. When i cut my steerer down I went with no spacers on top of it.


----------



## crpage (Dec 24, 2011)

I have the 53cm immortal fire I bought it at the same time you did. What a great deal! Did you ever get a total on weight. I believe mine is some where in the 16.5 to 17 range. I can't confirm though. Just using a a bath scale to get that number. I think your number on the spread sheet is a bit off on the tires. They are suppose to be 220g. 

How much did you take off the steer tube? Weight savings? I'm not sure if you noticed but the water bottle cage bolts are stainless. I had some aluminum ones on my phantomcx that I replaced them with. a few grams doesn't mater on that thing its somewhere around 24.5 lbs


----------



## lardo (Aug 16, 2011)

Wow. This is some serious weight-weeny stuff.


----------



## swidd (Jul 17, 2011)

So an update. 

This frame design probably just saved my stupid butt from crashing. It is dynamically stable with regards to oscillating steering/shimmy. 

Was riding down a hill towards the end of an organized 80 mile ride, all exhausted. Rolling about 35 mph just dreaming of reaching finish and laying down relaxing, and suddenly noticed the arrow in the street indicating a turn... a big mean SUV behind me, so I reached out my left arm to signal a turn right away... and BAM, hit a hole or large bump I didn't see, and front began to wobble. With my arm up in the air, I had no time to tighten down and regain balance. But thanks to the stability of the Immortal frame... the bike stabilized itself quickly, before I could begin to fall.


----------

