# 23 MM wide verses 19MM aluminum rims



## jackmen (Jul 24, 2007)

I presently ride traditional 19 mm wide Neuvation R28sl rims and like them on my neuvation FC500 frame. I also am riding tubeless 25 MM Intensives that actually measure closer to 21MM. The combination rides really smooth as I am running about 85PSI. (I run between 200 & 215 lbs)

I see and here all the buzz about the 23MM rims and was evaluating a switch to the wider rims. 

I am soliciting comments about peoples experiences of switching from 19MM to 23 MM, and what there observations have been about overall performance and ride-ability changes.


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## Zen Cyclery (Mar 10, 2009)

Before I made the switch, I was relatively skeptical. I was on the XR270 from Kinlin and I always thought it was a solid hoop, all though it really wasn't anything fancy.
I ended up switching to the big brother of the 270, which is the Kinlin XC279 (BHS c472w) and I did notice a difference in the ride quality. They seem to roll with a bit more predictability than my old Kinlins, particularly in the corners. The difference isn't huge, but there definitely is a difference. 

Wide rims haven't reinvented the wheel. They simply enhance it a little bit.


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## skepticman (Dec 25, 2005)

There are some previous threads on the topic.

http://forums.roadbikereview.com/wheels-tires/wide-rims-hype-improvement-260624-2.html
http://forums.roadbikereview.com/wheels-tires/wider-wheels-who-sells-them-299483.html


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## the mayor (Jul 8, 2004)

Zen Cyclery said:


> Before I made the switch, I was relatively skeptical. I was on the XR270 from Kinlin and I always thought it was a solid hoop, all though it really wasn't anything fancy.
> I ended up switching to the big brother of the 270, which is the Kinlin XC279 (BHS c472w) and I did notice a difference in the ride quality. They seem to roll with a bit more predictability than my old Kinlins, particularly in the corners. The difference isn't huge, but there definitely is a difference.
> 
> Wide rims haven't reinvented the wheel. They simply enhance it a little bit.


I agree.
I have the same rims.
Back to back...with same tires at the same pressure...
There might be a little...a very little difference.
But I really have to think about it. And if you're thinking that hard about how a rim feels....you're not riding.


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## Jay Strongbow (May 8, 2010)

the mayor said:


> I agree.
> I have the same rims.
> *Back to back...with same tires at the same pressure...*There might be a little...a very little difference.
> But I really have to think about it. And if you're thinking that hard about how a rim feels....you're not riding.


Right. But you need to use less pressure with wider rims to get the benefit. They are actually a little harsher at the same pressure because there's less side wall.
The obvious question is: Well why not just run less pressure on 19 mm rims if that's what it takes. I'm not sure of the marketing answer to that but in my own personal experience when I go lower presssure on 19mm rims they start to feel less responsive (not a big deal but I feel it) but with less PSI on 23 mm rims i don't feel any loss of responsiveness. Cornering is better on 23mm at lower PSI vs 19mm with any PSI.

Anyway OP, I was very skeptical but figured why not try 23mm because even if it was marketing BS it wouldn't be like I lost anything either. But I noticed a considerable improvement (which I need to use less pressure to get). Definitely more comfortable and better handling. Faster? No clue, probably not at all but if any not enough for me to perceive.


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## the mayor (Jul 8, 2004)

I tried different pressures....a lot of different pressure set ups.
And tried 3 different tires.
There is a difference. 
But it's small. Very small. ( where as going from a 23mm to a 25mm tire is noticable)
Found the same thing with wide tubulars.
Not enough to even think about swapping out what I have now.
So I have 2 wheelsets that I have to adjust the brakes for when I use them ( no big deal)
But...they are becoming a industry standard ( if there is such a thing).So if I was in the market for wheels...I would probably go wide.

The good thing is there is no draw backs that I could find.


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## Clipped_in (May 5, 2011)

Zen Cyclery said:


> Wide rims haven't reinvented the wheel. They simply enhance it a little bit.


Agreed. I have about 10k miles on a set of A23's and I like them a lot. Last year I had a nipple pull-through on my rear rim that took a few weeks to get taken care of. During that time I went back to a set of Ksyriums (std. 19mm width) and while the differences weren't huge, they were there.

I'm not saying everyone needs to dump their current wheels for new wide ones. But, if you are looking for a new set I certainly wouldn't discourage anyone from going wider. Unless, you intend to change narrow/wide wheels back and forth on the same bike. I think having to adjust the brakes each time would be a pain and probably not worth it.


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## Pitts Pilot (Dec 5, 2011)

Like others, I notice a subtle difference in comfort and improved control. What I REALLY like, is that I can now run a 25 mm tire (which gives even better comfort and control) and because my brakes are set a bit wider, I can get the wheel on and off.

I'm currently running HED C2's with Mich. Pro4 in 25mm. With this set up, the measured tire width is 28. I'm 150 and run 80/85 (f/r psi.) The confidence this gives me on blazing descents is priceless.

Faster? I don't know or care.


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## AJ88V (Nov 14, 2012)

Jay Strongbow said:


> The obvious question is: Well why not just run less pressure on 19 mm rims if that's what it takes. I'm not sure of the marketing answer to that but in my own personal experience when I go lower presssure on 19mm rims they start to feel less responsive (not a big deal but I feel it) but with less PSI on 23 mm rims i don't feel any loss of responsiveness. Cornering is better on 23mm at lower PSI vs 19mm with any PSI.


Too low pressure on the narrower rims results in the tire squishing out too wide (like a lightbulb to a mushroom). This results in loss of energy through flexing sidewalls, poorer handling as the tire wants to squish around when leaned over, and higher risk of pinch flats on hitting sharp transitions in the road. 

Additionally, the wider wheel increases the total volume of air in the tire (increased cross-sectional area). This reduces the pressure variation due to small tire deformations (ideal gas law) compared to the narrower setup (that is, dynamic pressure should be more consistent).


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## Cyclin Dan (Sep 24, 2011)

I'd like to try a 23mm wheel, but I have some 19mm wheels I really like and adjusting the brakes every time I switched the wheels would be a pain in the butt.


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## AJ88V (Nov 14, 2012)

Cyclin Dan said:


> I'd like to try a 23mm wheel, but I have some 19mm wheels I really like and adjusting the brakes every time I switched the wheels would be a pain in the butt.


This is an issue a lot of people raise. I tend to keep my brakes tight via the cable lock nut as opposed to the adjuster. I wonder if the adjuster alone would be sufficient to adjust for the narrower rim. Alternatively, one might use the quick release feature on the caliper to open it up for the wider rim.


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## Cyclin Dan (Sep 24, 2011)

AJ88V said:


> This is an issue a lot of people raise. I tend to keep my brakes tight via the cable lock nut as opposed to the adjuster. I wonder if the adjuster alone would be sufficient to adjust for the narrower rim. Alternatively, one might use the quick release feature on the caliper to open it up for the wider rim.


I run Campy...no quick release feature in my caliper. It's done in the brake lever, and I couldn't ride with it released...it would be annoying.


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## xjbaylor (Dec 28, 2006)

Cyclin Dan said:


> I run Campy...no quick release feature in my caliper. It's done in the brake lever, and I couldn't ride with it released...it would be annoying.


I have no issues using the barrel adjuster to adjust to smaller wheels. It might take 4 seconds.


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## krisdrum (Oct 29, 2007)

I've dumped all my narrow wheels, except one, which I use only on the trainer or rollers. It just made sense for me, as I much prefer CX as a discipline. Wider rim = more gluing area for cross tubulars. And I didn't want to bother with adjusting all the time. So, I picked up some Velocity Major Toms (yet to be built) and right now, 2 sets of A23s. 1 for training and the CX pits (32, 3x) and 1 a bit lighter for any road racing I might do for CX training (24/28, 2x). Building them myself saves me some cash and some of the hubs I bought used. All in all, I maybe spent $200, once you factor in the return coming from selling my former wheels. That isn't a huge investment.

And I agree with everyone, not a huge difference, but noticable, especially when cornering and over rougher surfaces.


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## 417477 (Aug 23, 2011)

I'm thinking of going 23mm rims for my next build. For clinchers are you using 23c or 25c tires on you're wide rims? I was thinking 25c because the roads are pretty crappy where I am. Thanks


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## biker jk (Dec 5, 2012)

imiller said:


> I'm thinking of going 23mm rims for my next build. For clinchers are you using 23c or 25c tires on you're wide rims? I was thinking 25c because the roads are pretty crappy where I am. Thanks


I use 23mm tyres but my Vittoria Rubino Pro IIIs measure 25mm across on the wider rim.


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## bwbishop (Sep 17, 2011)

I've only gotten two rides on my new 23mm wheels, but they seemed a lot tighter in the corners during my race on Saturday, and with the lower pressure, I think the ride is a bit smoother.


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## VinPaysDoc (May 23, 2005)

> I've only gotten two rides on my new 23mm wheels, but they seemed a lot tighter in the corners during my race on Saturday, and with the lower pressure, I think the ride is a bit smoother.


What pressures are you running and what width tire? Let's compare apples to apples as best we can. Thanks.


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## Wadl (Oct 8, 2011)

so, very small difference between 19 and 23mm... I can imagine that, with shimano (20.8mm) and Campagnolo (20.5mm) wheels, there wouldn't be a noticable difference... 

A 25mm tire would make a much more noticable difference right ?


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## Clipped_in (May 5, 2011)

Wadl said:


> A 25mm tire would make a much more noticable difference right ?


I would say no, but specifically what difference are you talking about? 23mm tires offer a little softer ride than comparable 23mm tires. But I never noticed the improvements with handling (on a 19mm rim). That's why I ride 23mm tires on 23mm rims. You get the improved ride along with the other benefits of a wider rim.


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## looigi (Nov 24, 2010)

Haven't read all the previous posts, but I'm running 5-10 PSI less with 23mm tires on HED 23mm rims compared to 23mm tires on 19mm rims. The Mich Pro4 tires measure 23mm wide on 19mm rims and 25mm wide on 23mm rims. 23mm tires on 23mm rims have the same increased volume and wider contact patch that you get from 25mm tires on 19mm rims, and the handling benefits from the more vertical sidewall compared to 25mm on 19mm rims.


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## mudge (May 15, 2010)

On my very first ride with wider (23mm) rims, I was hooked. I won't ride rims narrower than 23mm nor tires narrower than 25mm for racing or 28mm for training and I won't run tubes.


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## NastyHabits (Sep 21, 2011)

mudge said:


> On my very first ride with wider (23mm) rims, I was hooked. I won't ride rims narrower than 23mm nor tires narrower than 25mm for racing or 28mm for training and I won't run tubes.


I agree. I recently bought a set of HED Ardennes SL wheels. I noticed the difference immediately. I run 23 mm tires at 90 PSI front and 105 PSI rear. The ride is noticeably smoother, and I feel much more confident in the corners. My riding partners also noticed that I was riding faster than before. I'm sold. I will never go back to 19 mm rims.


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