# Switch from 53/39 to 52/36?



## Cyclin Dan (Sep 24, 2011)

I'm debating a move from a standard double to a 52/36. I live in Utah and ride a lot of mountains. I'm a big guy, and on some of these 8% + grades, even when using my 29 tooth cog in the back my cadence drops...sometimes all the way down in to the 50's. On a favorite climb, I have to push 350+ Watts just to keep a cadence of around 70...and i can't push that power consistently for an hour. I'm wondering if I wouldn't benefit from a 52/36. 

In normal riding, I keep my cadence around 90. One side of me thinks if I could keep my cadence higher I could keep the same speed with lower effort, or matching my effort increase my speed. The other side of me wonders if I wouldn't just keep the same cadence and go slower because I'm in a lower gear! 

What do you guys think? Has anyone made a similar change? Did it help your climbing? 

Thanks in advance...I'm about to pull the trigger but haven't convinced myself it will improve anything yet.


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## den bakker (Nov 13, 2004)

Cyclin Dan said:


> I'm debating a move from a standard double to a 52/36. I live in Utah and ride a lot of mountains. I'm a big guy, and on some of these 8% + grades, even when using my 29 tooth cog in the back my cadence drops...sometimes all the way down in to the 50's. On a favorite climb, I have to push 350+ Watts just to keep a cadence of around 70...and i can't push that power consistently for an hour. I'm wondering if I wouldn't benefit from a 52/36.
> 
> In normal riding, I keep my cadence around 90. One side of me thinks if I could keep my cadence higher I could keep the same speed with lower effort, or matching my effort increase my speed. The other side of me wonders if I wouldn't just keep the same cadence and go slower because I'm in a lower gear!
> 
> ...


well it's clear going from 39 -> 36 will cause an almost 8% shriveling of your nads. 
Other than that. As long as you can push yourself, why would you end up going slower by having a lower minimum gear? 
If you are uncomfortable with your current gearing I don't see what you have to loose. Might as well go to a true compact though while at it. you can still just put on a smaller cassette for flatter rides if that is a concern.


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## VinPaysDoc (May 23, 2005)

Climbing is never easy. The same amount of *total* effort is needed to get up an incline regardless of the gearing. With compact cranks it is easier to turn the pedals, but, you go slower. With a higher cadence you may find that you don't have muscle cramps as much because you aren't mashing for long periods of time. 

I live in North Carolina and ride in the mountains quite a bit. I started out with a standard double and later got a compact crank 50/34. If you do crits or road racing, you might need the 53 or 52. If not, just do it and get a 50/34. 

Two things make you faster on climbs: 1. Training 2. Weight loss


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## wim (Feb 28, 2005)

Keep in mind that the change from the 53 to the 52 will be almost imperceptible and that the change from the 39 to the 36 is the same gear percentage change you would get by making a 1-tooth change around the middle of the cassette with your shifter. Point being, don't put too much hope into this proposed change.


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## Cyclin Dan (Sep 24, 2011)

Thanks for the input thus far guys.

I guess I should add a few things. This is my main road bike, and I ride it quite a bit. Last year I put about 7,500 miles on this bike. I don't do crits, but I do a fair amount of road races.

I realize weight loss will help, and I realize that training will help too. I'm just wondering if the ability to keep my cadence up might help me last longer. I have a road race coming up that is 118 miles and has over 12,000 feet of climbing. It's not for about 4 months, but that has me a little nervous with the gearing I currently have. The race ends with an 8 mile, 7-9% climb with a summit finish. That's after two long hard climbs (one being 15+ miles), and several shorter (1-2 miles at 10%) hard climbs.

I've just been thinking that I may be able to stay off frying my legs that much longer if I could keep the cadence up higher.

Like wim said...maybe I'm over thinking it. I know I don't want a standard compact...my rear cassette is a 12/29 and in order to get an 11 (which I would have to have going to a 50T front ring) my biggest rear cog can be a 25, which won't work for me. 

Actually...that has me thinking. I wonder what the difference in gear inches is on a 34x25 vs. a 39x29...off to do some math.


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## Cyclin Dan (Sep 24, 2011)

I'm going to take a closer look at all my options here. Does the attached spreadsheet look like I made my calculations correctly?

View attachment 277521


Hmmmm....


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## wim (Feb 28, 2005)

Here's a nicely done calculator if you want a graphic representation in which overlaps and duplications (not necessarily a bad thing; I liked lots of overlap!) become immediately apparent. You can see gear change percentages, gray out cross-chained gears, see speed and cadence and other stuff. Drag the chain wheel and the cog around to set the numbers.

http://www.gear-calculator.com/#KB=34,50&RZ=11,12,13,14,15,17,19,22,25,28&TF=85&UF=2099&SL=2


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## tvad (Aug 31, 2003)

Cyclin Dan said:


> One side of me thinks if I could keep my cadence higher I could keep the same speed with lower effort, or matching my effort increase my speed. The other side of me wonders if I wouldn't just keep the same cadence and go slower because I'm in a lower gear!


You will likely keep the same cadence and go slower because you're in a lower gear.

Switching to a 53/36 or 50/34 will not make climbing easier, but you likely will be able to increase your cadence above the 50s. Whether you can maintain a cadence around 70 for an hour with higher gearing is doubtful. That has more to do with your fitness level.


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## den bakker (Nov 13, 2004)

tvad said:


> You will likely keep the same cadence and go slower because you're in a lower gear.


just imagine how fast we would all be on 53/11 fixies.


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## Doc_D (Mar 16, 2006)

I've traditionally ridden/raced 53/39. I'm building a new bike up with Dura Ace 9000 11-speed and opted for the 52/36 with a 12-28 cassette. I had a 50/34 in the past which I didn't like because I always felt like I was between the rings. I felt like I shifted the FD much more often with the 50/34. I think with the 12-28's range that the 52/36 shouldn't have that issue.

My biggest concern is about the number of cogs I'll need to shift when changing rings to get an equivalent gear ratio. This only concerns me during a race. On a casual ride it's of no consequence. Many time during a race I'll change rings in anticipation of a big change in speed. So I'll quickly shift the front and almost simultaneously shyift 2 or 3 cogs in the back to get to the same ratio. With the 52/36 and 12-28 I'm guessing I might have to shift up to 4 cogs to get back to the same ratio.


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## BostonG (Apr 13, 2010)

Doc_D; said:


> With the 52/36 and 12-28 I'm guessing I might have to shift up to 4 cogs to get back to the same ratio.


Your estimate is reasonable. I have a 52/36 with a 11-28 and usually shift 3 cogs to maintain the ratio. I ride on mostly rolling terrain.


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## paredown (Oct 18, 2006)

tvad said:


> You will likely keep the same cadence and go slower because you're in a lower gear.
> 
> Switching to a 53/36 or 50/34 will not make climbing easier, but you likely will be able to increase your cadence above the 50s. Whether you can maintain a cadence around 70 for an hour with higher gearing is doubtful. That has more to do with your fitness level.


And age--I'm finding that even when I am in decent shape, I have no where near the power I have even 10 years ago, and that was only a fraction of what I had when I was racing in my 20s. Worse yet, I have very little need for gears on the high end, since I don't bomb down the hills like I once did.

My next build will be a triple (because I have the parts) and I will likely try a compact after that to see if I can live with fewer well spaced gears.


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## JCavilia (Sep 12, 2005)

Doc_D said:


> With the 52/36 and 12-28 I'm guessing I might have to shift up to 4 cogs to get back to the same ratio.


"Guessing"? "Might"? There shouldn't be any guesswork. It's ratios. It's math. Put the numbers in that nifty calculator that Wim linked to, and you can see it in simple graphic form.

Your guess is correct, BTW. You have to shift four cogs to get close to the same gear when you switch between the 52 and and 36. However, with the 53-39 it wasn't that different, requiring 3 or 4, never 2.


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## Jay Strongbow (May 8, 2010)

If your cadance is 50 with a 29 pie plate in the back now you'd probably be better off getting a 34 ring in the front so you can use a more reasonably spaced cassette in the back.

It'll be okay. Women won't start looking away from you and men won't kick sand in your face if you get a compact. Mountains of Utah are different from the internet and people who know what a gear ratio is realize that.


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## Cyclin Dan (Sep 24, 2011)

Jay Strongbow said:


> If your cadance is 50 with a 29 pie plate in the back now you'd probably be better off getting a 34 ring in the front so you can use a more reasonably spaced cassette in the back.
> 
> It'll be okay. Women won't start looking away from you and men won't kick sand in your face if you get a compact. Mountains of Utah are different from the internet and people who know what a gear ratio is realize that.


I wish Campagnolo made a cassette that had an 11, and something bigger than a 25.


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## tvad (Aug 31, 2003)

Cyclin Dan said:


> I wish Campagnolo made a cassette that had an 11, and something bigger than a 25.


I assemble a Campy frankencassette using 11-25 and 12-29 Chorus cassettes. I use the 11-14 of the 11-25 cassette, and the 16-29 of the 12-29 cassette. It suits my needs, and it shifts perfectly. I don't miss the 15 tooth cog.


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## JoePAz (Jul 20, 2012)

Jay Strongbow said:


> If your cadance is 50 with a 29 pie plate in the back now you'd probably be better off getting a 34 ring in the front so you can use a more reasonably spaced cassette in the back.


I have an old school triple, which I guess is not what the cool kids have anymore, 30/42/52 with a 12-25 9 spd in the back. Flat ground I never need the 30 and most hills I can climb with 42 and my 21 or 23 in the back, but it is nice to have that 30 in case I need it. I consider it a bail out gear if my legs give out or something gets really steep. With 30/25 combo I can spin along despite the slow speed (8mph) can just keep going and at least make it to the top. My 52/12 combo is good for 35-38 mph on gentle downhill, but beyond 38 or so I spin out. My typical loop has me hit 32-34 mph up to 4 times depending on wind conditions since I have few downhill runs. For this reason I don't want to lose the top end. On flat riding I tend to used my 12,13,14,15 cogs alot in combination with either the 52 or 42. I find it nice to have very fine mix of ratios I can run and then 30 chainring gets me the super low end in case I need it.


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## Nater (Feb 7, 2003)

Cyclin Dan said:


> I wish Campagnolo made a cassette that had an 11, and something bigger than a 25.


There are these too...

11-Speed Elite Cassettes (Campy Wide Range)
11 speed 11-30

10-Speed Elite Cassettes (Campy-Wide Range)
10 speed 11-30, 11-32, 11-34

10-Speed Elite Cassettes (Campy Standard Range)
10 speed 11-28 in here.


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## jnbrown (Dec 9, 2009)

A lot of the Pros including Contador are using pretty low gears on hilly races.
Even Chris Froome said recently he was over geared using a 36x28 although that was with a 27% grade on Tirreno Adriatico.
I would go 50/34 with a 11-28 on the back.
It does take some training to spin a higher cadence uphill.


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## wim (Feb 28, 2005)

JoePAz said:


> I have an old school triple, which I guess is not what the cool kids have anymore


It may not be cool. But the triple with a close-ratio cassette is still the only arrangement that gives you three out of three: (1) a very large gear range, (2) sufficient overlap to avoid constant front shifting, and (3) close-ratio gears. You can get two out of these three with a standard or a compact, but not all three.


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## SystemShock (Jun 14, 2008)

Cyclin Dan said:


> I'm debating a move from a standard double to a 52/36. I live in Utah and ride a lot of mountains. I'm a big guy, and on some of these 8% + grades, even when using my 29 tooth cog in the back my cadence drops...sometimes all the way down in to the 50's.
> 
> On a favorite climb, I have to push 350+ Watts just to keep a cadence of around 70...and i can't push that power consistently for an hour. I'm wondering if I wouldn't benefit from a 52/36.


All I can say is, a climbing cadence in the 50s really sucks (been there done that), unless you're talking short efforts out of the saddle, which it sounds like you're not.

At a certain point of low cadence/being overgeared, you just sort of bog down and your watts drop off a cliff. So yeah, I think a lower bottom gear for climbing could easily benefit you... and you'd likely go faster with it, not slower, because it'd allow you to climb at something closer to your optimal cadence, which is going to be higher than 50-55 RPMs or whatever.

It's a bit like cars... there's a certain engine speed (RPMs) at which you get maximum power. Be sharply below that, and you don't get the power.

Lemond (in his book) has said that anything below 75 RPMs when climbing ends up being inefficient. Even Hinault, in his later professional seasons when he became a more efficient climber instead of an 'out of the saddle for miles' kind of guy, tried to keep it at 70-90 RPMs when climbing.

Of course, going to a 36t ring instead of a 39t may not be enough (only an 8% difference), but it could definitely help some (i.e. suck less). 

So I'd test ride one and see, assuming you can get ahold of one with the 29t cog you seem to like. And/or perhaps consider a mega-range cassette (IRD makes Campy-compatible ones, I think), if you can live with the wider jumps between gears and possibly slightly less nice shifting.

.


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## Cyclin Dan (Sep 24, 2011)

jnbrown said:


> A lot of the Pros including Contador are using pretty low gears on hilly races.
> Even Chris Froome said recently he was over geared using a 36x28 although that was with a 27% grade on Tirreno Adriatico.
> I would go 50/34 with a 11-28 on the back.
> It does take some training to spin a higher cadence uphill.


Campagnolo doesn't make an 11-28.


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## Cyclin Dan (Sep 24, 2011)

SystemShock said:


> All I can say is, a climbing cadence in the 50s really sucks (been there done that), unless you're talking short efforts out of the saddle, which it sounds like you're not.
> 
> At a certain point of low cadence/being overgeared, you just sort of bog down and your watts drop off a cliff. So yeah, I think a lower bottom gear for climbing could easily benefit you... and you'd likely go faster with it, not slower, because it'd allow you to climb at something closer to your optimal cadence, which is going to be higher than 50-55 RPMs or whatever.
> 
> ...


Yeah, I want to such with a Campagnolo cassette. The season is early and I just stated riding after taking the winter completely off to finish my basement. I think I'll give it 4-6 weeks of good hard training and see how I feel. 

I'm looking at ~$500 when it's all said and done, so I want to make sure I'm making a good move.


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## Nater (Feb 7, 2003)

Cyclin Dan said:


> Campagnolo doesn't make an 11-28.


IRD does make an 11-28 Campy compatible cassette though.


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## Peanya (Jun 12, 2008)

Why not get a 50/34 crankset, and if that doesn't feel better, swap out the rings on it. I think you'd be best served going that way. I quickly adapted to a compact from a standard. Timing the shifts at the crest of the hills was easier with a compact for me too.


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## aclinjury (Sep 12, 2011)

You should get a compact.


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## Jay Strongbow (May 8, 2010)

Nater said:


> IRD does make an 11-28 Campy compatible cassette though.


He should look into Miche as well. From what I understand you can buy/use individual gears so can have basically any cassette you want with the new Miche cassettes.


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## VKW (Jul 26, 2009)

This is my favorite gear calculator.
Mike Sherman's Bicycle Gear Calculator


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## JCavilia (Sep 12, 2005)

VKW said:


> This is my favorite gear calculator.
> Mike Sherman's Bicycle Gear Calculator


Thanks for the link. I've been using this one
http://www.gear-calculator.com/#
but that speed-vs cadence in the other one is very handy.


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## Camilo (Jun 23, 2007)

Cyclin Dan said:


> ... in order to get an 11 (which I would have to have going to a 50T front ring) my biggest rear cog can be a 25, which won't work for me.


What's wrong with an 11-28?

[edit] - sorry I've read through the thread now and see that this might not be available.


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## dnice (Jul 12, 2012)

wim said:


> Here's a nicely done calculator if you want a graphic representation in which overlaps and duplications (not necessarily a bad thing; I liked lots of overlap!) become immediately apparent. You can see gear change percentages, gray out cross-chained gears, see speed and cadence and other stuff. Drag the chain wheel and the cog around to set the numbers.
> 
> http://www.gear-calculator.com/#KB=34,50&RZ=11,12,13,14,15,17,19,22,25,28&TF=85&UF=2099&SL=2


played around with that and, if i understood it correctly, my next cassette here in flat florida needs to be a 12-27 instead of the 12-25 i was thinking of buying for my 50-39-30 triple (currently have an 11-28). the addition of the 16t seems to be the missing link (so to speak).


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## mattotoole (Jan 3, 2008)

dnice said:


> played around with that and, if i understood it correctly, my next cassette here in flat florida needs to be a 12-27 instead of the 12-15 i was thinking of buying for my 50-39-30 triple (currently have an 11-28). the addition of the 16t seems to be the missing link (so to speak).


It was for me! More about that below.

I'm sticking with my triple: 30-42-52. Why? Most of the time I'm cruising at 18-21 MPH -- middle chainring, middle of the cassette on the triple, for a great chainline. With a compact double I'd be fairly cross-chained most of the time, with more friction and drivetrain wear.

With a 9 speed 12-25, I always missed the 16. Since I hardly ever used the small chainring, I decided to go with a 12-23 to get the 16, and use the small chainring more. So far so good -- I really like having the 16. I'm still getting used to more front shifts.


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## carlislegeorge (Mar 28, 2004)

If you're asking for advice from those that have actually ridden the 52/36, and/or made the change that you're contemplating, then I suggest you listen most closely to that input and much less to the numeric calculations from those that haven't ridden the 52/36. As implied in several responses, your actual experience and perceived benefit isn't just in the numbers. Just saying....try it and see how it works for you.


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## dnice (Jul 12, 2012)

mattotoole said:


> It was for me! More about that below.
> 
> I'm sticking with my triple: 30-42-52. Why? Most of the time I'm cruising at 18-21 MPH -- middle chainring, middle of the cassette on the triple, for a great chainline. With a compact double I'd be fairly cross-chained most of the time, with more friction and drivetrain wear.
> 
> With a 9 speed 12-25, I always missed the 16. Since I hardly ever used the small chainring, I decided to go with a 12-23 to get the 16, and use the small chainring more. So far so good -- I really like having the 16. I'm still getting used to more front shifts.


that's pretty cool. i had been riding the 39t more in flatlandia, and there was just something a tad off, so the mighty 16t appears to be quite a find. I'll install after this weekend's ride (also swapping to narrower bars) and update. of course, cyclists being fred's, the group i rode with last week couldn't help but comment on the granny gear. whatever...i love that thing. mile 86 ms150, skipped last the feed zone going for a time, and a mile later hit a 10mph headwind up a 4degre mile long climb. bonked. was on a compact 12-25 and about died. had to walk it up the hill. cursed myself the whole time for not bringing the triple. "you just had to be cool, idiot".


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## Cyclin Dan (Sep 24, 2011)

carlislegeorge said:


> If you're asking for advice from those that have actually ridden the 52/36, and/or made the change that you're contemplating, then I suggest you listen most closely to that input and much less to the numeric calculations from those that haven't ridden the 52/36. As implied in several responses, your actual experience and perceived benefit isn't just in the numbers. Just saying....try it and see how it works for you.


I hear you. I just don't want to spend the ~$500 and not experience any benefit from it...that's all. Maybe I'll go with a 50/34 and a custom made 11/29. 

I decided I'm not going to do anything for a month...I need to put in more miles for the season and get my climbing legs back. I usually ride all year, and this year I hung it up completely in September to take on a big project at home. So...I need to get my fitness back before I go doing anything.


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## spade2you (May 12, 2009)

With respect to the 11-28 cassette, seems like a lot of effort to avoid getting a compact. I just ride a 11-23 with a compact. I'll switch to a 11-25 if there's a lot of sustained or steep climbing.


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## JoePAz (Jul 20, 2012)

dnice said:


> ...and a mile later hit a 10mph headwind up a 4degre mile long climb. bonked. was on a compact 12-25 and about died. had to walk it up the hill. cursed myself the whole time for not bringing the triple. "you just had to be cool, idiot".


That is why I am happy my bike has a triple. Bail out gear just in case. I never want to walk it ever and would rather spin at 4mph than walk a climb. If this means I have to carry around a few extra ounces for a granny ring so be it.


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## dnice (Jul 12, 2012)

JoePAz said:


> That is why I am happy my bike has a triple. Bail out gear just in case. I never want to walk it ever and would rather spin at 4mph than walk a climb. If this means I have to carry around a few extra ounces for a granny ring so be it.


you got that right!


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## Bob Ross (Apr 18, 2006)

Cyclin Dan said:


> I know I don't want a standard compact...my rear cassette is a 12/29 and in order to get an 11 (which I would have to have going to a 50T front ring) my biggest rear cog can be a 25


You're running Campy, right? It boggles me that they don't offer an 11-26 or 11-28


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## Cyclin Dan (Sep 24, 2011)

Bob Ross said:


> You're running Campy, right? It boggles me that they don't offer an 11-26 or 11-28


Yeah, running Campy.


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## Cyclin Dan (Sep 24, 2011)

spade2you said:


> With respect to the 11-28 cassette, seems like a lot of effort to avoid getting a compact. I just ride a 11-23 with a compact. I'll switch to a 11-25 if there's a lot of sustained or steep climbing.


I'm not afraid of a compact, I just don't want a 50 big ring, with the smallest cog a 12. 

Every ride I do has climbing...I live in the mountains. There isn't a flat ride here, and as I mentioned, I'm a big guy. There is no way an 11/23 would work for me, even with a compact. The common configuration here is a compact with 11-28. As already mentioned up-thread...Campy doesn't make an 11-28...anything with a 25 tooth cog or bigger stats with a 12.


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## spade2you (May 12, 2009)

If a 34x25 isn't enough, you don't need a 50x11.


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## 299e (Sep 11, 2011)

I switched from 53/39 to 50/34 a few years back, but couldn't really get used to the 16t difference in front. Have settled on 36/48 and 11-28. With a little more fitness/a little less weight I'd probably go 36/50 and 11-25, which would bring back the 16 tooth cog. Shimano 10spd.


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## tvad (Aug 31, 2003)

Cyclin Dan said:


> As already mentioned up-thread...Campy doesn't make an 11-28...anything with a 25 tooth cog or bigger stats with a 12.


Shimano does. Make the switch. You can get the gearing you want and need. And, if you want to change chainring combinations, you only have to buy new chainrings. You don't have to buy new cranksets like you do with Campy.

I'm a long time Campy user, and as I mentioned earlier in this thread, I assembled an 11-29 Campy frankencassette that works perfectly.

However, if you're not willing to do that, and if you're not willing to try one of the 11-18 aftermarket Campy compatible cassettes (I wasn't), then your remaining alternative is to ditch Campy and switch to Shimano.

I installed Dura Ace 9000 (52/36 + 11-28) on my new bike, and I'm very happy with the results. There are too many benefits of the new Dura Ace 11 speed groupsets to ignore.


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## SystemShock (Jun 14, 2008)

Bob Ross said:


> You're running Campy, right? It boggles me that they don't offer an 11-26 or 11-28


Ditto, and I've said this for years. It's amazing (in a bad way) that Campy doesn't have an 11-28 or similar. 

With 10-speed, you could almost understand it, seeing as the 16t cog is important to some ppl, and you have to ditch the 16t to have an 11-28 in 10-spd... at least one that has gear progressions that anyone would want to use.

But with 11-speed, there's really no excuse. 11-27 or 11-28 is fine with 11-spd, and you get to keep the 16t, if you want. 

Though it should be noted that Shimano's 11-speed 11-28 ditches the 16t cog. Urk. :skep:

On the plus side, at least Campy offers some cassettes that start with a 13t... which can be a good choice for ppl using std double cranks or mid-compact (53x13 or 52x13 is enough top-end for many). SRAM makes zero cassettes that start with a 13, and Shimano makes only one (and it isn't wide-range).

But 13-X cassettes are a niche item sales-wise compared to 11-28, which has become quite popular. I wonder how many sales Campy's lost due to not offering that? :confused5:








.


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## Cyclin Dan (Sep 24, 2011)

spade2you said:


> If a 34x25 isn't enough, you don't need a 50x11.


What's the correlation between the two? I'm a big guy and can haul ass on the flats, sprint really well and climb better than most my size too. When I say climb, I mean climb. I don't know where you ride, but I roll out my front door and in the first four miles I've climbed 1,528 feet. 

(Queue the stats about full tuck, cadence, etc...)


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## spade2you (May 12, 2009)

Cyclin Dan said:


> When I say climb, I mean climb.


If you say so. If a 34x25 isn't enough, there's a pretty good chance you're not going to be in the bunch sprint. 

Sounds like you know more than us.


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## SystemShock (Jun 14, 2008)

spade2you said:


> If a 34x25 isn't enough, you don't need a 50x11.


Of course Spade, you're 5'6" and 130 lbs, if memory serves correctly. The OP is a big guy, and thus in another world climbing-wise. 

So, show some compassion to us Clydesdales. :wink5:


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## spade2you (May 12, 2009)

SystemShock said:


> Of course Spade, you're 5'6" and 130 lbs, if memory serves correctly. The OP is a big guy, and thus in another world climbing-wise.
> 
> So, show some compassion to us Clydesdales. :wink5:


120lbs, but I'll let it slide (this time) (of course I'm kidding)(maybe). I like a compact because I prefer spinning a really light gear when attacking or responding. Gradients are rarely uniform and neither is the pace. 

For uphill TTs during a stage race with a short recovery, I prefer to really spin in a light gear. Outside of stage racing, I'll lower my cadence and push a heavier gear.

Still, after lots of steep climbs, your sprint won't be nearly as high as if you were fully rested. After a heck of a lot of hard climbing, a 50x12 is plenty. If it's not enough, you'll be moved to the Doping Forum.


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## Cyclin Dan (Sep 24, 2011)

spade2you said:


> 120lbs, but I'll let it slide (this time) (of course I'm kidding)(maybe). I like a compact because I prefer spinning a really light gear when attacking or responding. Gradients are rarely uniform and neither is the pace.
> 
> For uphill TTs during a stage race with a short recovery, I prefer to really spin in a light gear. Outside of stage racing, I'll lower my cadence and push a heavier gear.
> 
> Still, after lots of steep climbs, your sprint won't be nearly as high as if you were fully rested. After a heck of a lot of hard climbing, a 50x12 is plenty. If it's not enough, you'll be moved to the Doping Forum.


Any other details about me that you want to share? Who in the hell do you think you are and why are we even talking about this? It's ridiculous. I started the thread to see if anyone had changed from a 53/39 to 52/36 and how they liked it. 

The last thing I wanted was some internet know-it-all to teach me how to properly ride my bike.


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## spade2you (May 12, 2009)

Cyclin Dan said:


> Any other details about me that you want to share? Who in the hell do you think you are and why are we even talking about this? It's ridiculous. I started the thread to see if anyone had changed from a 53/39 to 52/36 and how they liked it.
> 
> The last thing I wanted was some internet know-it-all to teach me how to properly ride my bike.


Then why the hell did you ask?

Post in the racer forum and see what they'll tell you. _Probably_ the same thing I just told ya. 

Now tell us about climbing. REALLY climbing.


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## Cyclin Dan (Sep 24, 2011)

spade2you said:


> Then why the hell did you ask?
> 
> Post in the racer forum and see what they'll tell you. _Probably_ the same thing I just told ya.
> 
> Now tell us about climbing. REALLY climbing.


I asked because I wanted some feedback on THAT question.


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## spade2you (May 12, 2009)

Cyclin Dan said:


> I asked because I wanted some feedback on THAT question.


Answer the THAT question I asked. Please tell us about REALLY climbing. Inquiring minds want to know.


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## Cyclin Dan (Sep 24, 2011)

spade2you said:


> Answer the THAT question I asked. Please tell us about REALLY climbing. Inquiring minds want to know.


I don't recall you asking me a question...?


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## spade2you (May 12, 2009)

Cyclin Dan said:


> I don't recall you asking me a question...?


I want to know what really climbing is. 

I also wanna know what love is.


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## SystemShock (Jun 14, 2008)

*re: where this thread is headed*


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## Cyclin Dan (Sep 24, 2011)

spade2you said:


> I want to know what really climbing is.
> 
> I also wanna know what love is.


I have no idea where you ride. I ride in the mountains, because that's where I live. I had a friend from Texas tell me about all the coming he was doing, and he'd climb 2,000 feet in a century. There are several rides I do every year with over 10k feet, and last year a buddy and I rode 117 miles with 17k feet of climbing. 

For you local Utahns, we rode from my house in Alpine up over Suncrest, then up Wasatch Blvd to Big Cottonwood and up to Alta, then up Little Cottonwood to Brighton, then up Millcreek to the trailhead, then up Emigration and to the top of Big Mountain, then back to downtown Salt Lake where we got a ride home. 

I may not compete in hill climb TT's and try to convince everyone in the world I'm gods gift to cycling and this forum, but I do a lot of climbing on my bike. That bike had a 50/34 and 11/28.


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## spade2you (May 12, 2009)

...but you want to avoid compacts, right? 

Never said I was God's gift to climbing, other than the statement that if you need lower gears than a 34x25 that you're probably not in the bunch sprint and probably don't need a 50x11. 

Sure, it would be nice if Campy had a 28-11 cassette. They might even make one in 3-4 years if enough people complain. 

Need and want are two different things. If you really want to learn a lot about gearing, a power meter might blow your mind.


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## tvad (Aug 31, 2003)

Cyclin Dan said:


> I have no idea where you ride. I ride in the mountains, because that's where I live. I had a friend from Texas tell me about all the coming he was doing, and he'd climb 2,000 feet in a century. There are several rides I do every year with over 10k feet, and last year a buddy and I rode 117 miles with 17k feet of climbing.


That's a lot of climbing. Not sure why you don't still ride the 50/34 11/28 combo that worked for you on these rides, but you haven't offered a reason and I suppose it doesn't matter.

I'm assuming you prefer to stay with Campy, since you haven't responded with any feedback about the suggestion of Shimano.

My opinion is that you would very much like a 52/36 11/29 "custom" cassette set-up for your Campy equipped bike. I'm doubtful that 52/36 11/25 would give you enough climbing gearing.

BTW, were I live in Southern California, a tough day of climbing for me equates to about 8,000 feet over perhaps 70 miles.


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## Alfonsina (Aug 26, 2012)

Cyclin Dan said:


> For you local Utahns, we rode from my house in Alpine up over Suncrest, then up Wasatch Blvd to Big Cottonwood and up to Alta, then up Little Cottonwood to Brighton, then up Millcreek to the trailhead, then up Emigration and to the top of Big Mountain, then back to downtown Salt Lake where we got a ride home.
> 
> .



Brighton is big cottonwood, Alta is little cottonwood, BTW.


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## Cyclin Dan (Sep 24, 2011)

spade2you said:


> ...but you want to avoid compacts, right?
> 
> Never said I was God's gift to climbing, other than the statement that if you need lower gears than a 34x25 that you're probably not in the bunch sprint and probably don't need a 50x11.
> 
> ...


I ride with a PowerTap and upload app my rides to WKO+ for analytics. 

The reason I don't want a compact is because I don't want my fastest gear to be a 50/12. After those climbs come descents, and some have long gradual downhills (-1%) and I can run a high cadence in my 53/12 carrying a lot of speed for a long time.


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## Cyclin Dan (Sep 24, 2011)

Alfonsina said:


> Brighton is big cottonwood, Alta is little cottonwood, BTW.


I always get those damn canyons mixed up, but you're correct. Sorry about that.


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## Cyclin Dan (Sep 24, 2011)

tvad said:


> That's a lot of climbing. Not sure why you don't still ride the 50/34 11/28 combo that worked for you on these rides, but you haven't offered a reason and I suppose it doesn't matter.
> 
> I'm assuming you prefer to stay with Campy, since you haven't responded with any feedback about the suggestion of Shimano.
> 
> ...


I don't ride that bike anymore because late in the season during the bunch sprint at the end of a race (the sprint that I'm never in according to spade...and spade, I was pushing almost 1,400 watts according to that power meter I should buy at the time of the failure) my S-Works Barmac handlebars snapped in half and I took a nasty spill about 10 yards from the finish. After that I didn't trust the bike, so I had the bars/stem replaced and sold it. I built this bike with Campy, and based on their available gearing that has already been discussed, I opted for what I have now. The reasoning being that I didn't want a 50/12 as my lowest gear, and that with the 29T cog would likely allow me to find comfort with the 53/39, which solves the problem of the fact that the smallest cog is a 12. 

Make sense?


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## Cyclin Dan (Sep 24, 2011)

tvad said:


> That's a lot of climbing. Not sure why you don't still ride the 50/34 11/28 combo that worked for you on these rides, but you haven't offered a reason and I suppose it doesn't matter.
> 
> I'm assuming you prefer to stay with Campy, since you haven't responded with any feedback about the suggestion of Shimano.
> 
> ...


To address your other points...yes, I want to stick with Campy. I really love the feel and performance of it. I appreciate your suggestion to trying a custom 11/29 and 52/36. I think I may try the 52/36 FIRST, and see if the 52/12 provides enough or if I feel like I need an 11. Hopefully the 52/12 will work, because I am not excited about the thought of buying two cassettes each time I need one (although it would leave me with a 12/25 to sell I guess). 

8,000 feet over 70 miles is a lot climbing too! There are so many people all over the country that don't ever get the opportunity to take a ride like that, and they have no idea what it's like to drag your but up a canyon for 15+ miles of sustained climbing.


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## SystemShock (Jun 14, 2008)

Cyclin Dan said:


> To address your other points...yes, I want to stick with Campy. I really love the feel and performance of it. I appreciate your suggestion to trying a custom 11/29 and 52/36.
> 
> I think I may try the 52/36 FIRST, and see if the 52/12 provides enough or if I feel like I need an 11. Hopefully the 52/12 will work, because I am not excited about the thought of buying two cassettes each time I need one (although it would leave me with a 12/25 to sell I guess).
> 
> 8,000 feet over 70 miles is a lot climbing too! There are so many people all over the country that don't ever get the opportunity to take a ride like that, and they have no idea what it's like to drag your but up a canyon for 15+ miles of sustained climbing.


Quite right. A Clydesdale in the big mountains should get the gearing he needs (heck, everyone should), and hang everything else. Efficiency is key, and it seems like you're on the right track.

Best of luck, and tell us how it goes. :thumbsup:


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## SauronHimself (Nov 21, 2012)

If you want to avoid a compact like grim death, so be it, but it seems to be the best option for you. Your other option is to unclip and walk up the hills.


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## tvad (Aug 31, 2003)

deleted


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## SystemShock (Jun 14, 2008)

tvad said:


> You mentioned you would spin out on a 50-11 combo, which had a gear inch length of 121.36.


No, what he said was that he didn't want 50x12 to be his top gear, presumably he would spin _that_ out, so if he went compact he would need an 11t cog. 

BUT, Campy doesn't make a wide-range 11-X cassette (i.e. no 11-28 or similar), so it's kinda a problem unless he goes with a Campy 'frankencassette' or goes with IRD, which he doesn't seem to wanna.


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## tvad (Aug 31, 2003)

deleted


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## SystemShock (Jun 14, 2008)

tvad said:


> Established that point several posts ago...maybe even several days ago.


Then why did you erroneously say that he said he'd spin out a 50x11? Presumably he wouldn't want a compact at all in that case.

Incidentally, his current top gear (which he seems fine with) is 53x12, and 50x11 is higher than that.


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## tvad (Aug 31, 2003)

deleted


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## SystemShock (Jun 14, 2008)

tvad said:


> You continue to cover old ground, but thanks.


You misspoke, and can't admit it. Noted.


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## tvad (Aug 31, 2003)

deleted


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## SystemShock (Jun 14, 2008)

tvad said:


> It was a typo.


It was a 'typo' you bothered to calculate gear inches for. :wink5:

But at least you're trying to help.


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## spade2you (May 12, 2009)

SauronHimself said:


> If you want to avoid a compact like grim death, so be it, but it seems to be the best option for you. Your other option is to unclip and walk up the hills.


What, are you God's gift to climbing?!?!?!






..if so, high five?


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## Cyclin Dan (Sep 24, 2011)

SauronHimself said:


> If you want to avoid a compact like grim death, so be it, but it seems to be the best option for you. Your other option is to unclip and walk up the hills.


Did you even read the thread?


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## SauronHimself (Nov 21, 2012)

Cyclin Dan said:


> Did you even read the thread?


Yes, and your problem is with the mountains. It's nice that you can haul ass on flat sprints, but your needs according to you aren't being met with the current crankset. Since a 52/36 on the same or similar cassette will produce little difference, the compact crank makes the most sense for you.


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## spade2you (May 12, 2009)

Cyclin Dan said:


> Did you even read the thread?


You keep telling people this who offer advice that differs from what you want to hear.


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## Cyclin Dan (Sep 24, 2011)

spade2you said:


> You keep telling people this who offer advice that differs from what you want to hear.


He's telling me to walk up hills that I'm riding up now. There isn't anything that I do or don't want to hear, but I know I don't want a compact for reasons that have been stated several times.


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## SystemShock (Jun 14, 2008)

Note to tvad: Sorry if I was harsh. You just happened to hit a pet peeve of mine, and I could've been nicer about it. Peace.


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## SauronHimself (Nov 21, 2012)

Cyclin Dan said:


> He's telling me to walk up hills that I'm riding up now. There isn't anything that I do or don't want to hear, but I know I don't want a compact for reasons that have been stated several times.


You stated what your problem was, and you also severely restricted your options. I gave you the optimal scenario based on what you provided and the inevitable consequence if you don't want to be flexible. I'm not telling you to do anything. Now here's the part where I do tell you to do/not do something: Don't start a thread inviting everyone's opinion when you react irrationally and defensively to people who give you advice you don't want to hear.


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## SystemShock (Jun 14, 2008)

To CyclingDan: I think ppl are not being particularly nice/diplomatic with you, and that's a shame. It's hard to ask a question publicly, and then get multiple ppl being a bit 'in your face' about the answer, especially if you're not used to it. Tact does count for something... for one thing, ppl will actually listen to what you have to say when you use some.

But that aside, their general point might well be a very good one, namely that, given your situation (Clydesdale in the mountains, want a big top gear, want to stay with Campy, don't want to go to IRD or 3rd party cassettes), compact plus a Campy 'frankencassette' (11-29) might be the only thing that'll really work for you... again, given your stated parameters.

Mid-compact plus your current cassette would help a little, but likely not enough. I think that's all they're saying, in their own overly-blunt RBR-way. 

And who knows, if they're right, then they've saved you the price of a couple of Campy chainrings at the least, i.e. an arm and a leg. :lol: Ppl who save you $$$ = good.

But I can understand the instinct to TRY mid-compact plus your current cassette first, to see what it can do for you. I'd just do that try-out on a long test ride or bike rental or borrowed bike instead of buying a mid-compact crank first, if at all possible. Gotta know if it works for you before plunking down the $$$.


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## spade2you (May 12, 2009)

Dismissing all differing opinions and telling them about REAL climbing isn't a way to encourage kind responses. Trying to be more stubborn than Campy isn't a battle anyone is going to win.


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## SystemShock (Jun 14, 2008)

spade2you said:


> Dismissing all differing opinions and telling them about REAL climbing isn't a way to encourage kind responses.


But it is him laying out his needs (local riding terrain = needs), which is valid.




> _Trying to be more stubborn than Campy isn't a battle anyone is going to win.
> _


True dat. I don't think Campy understands how lame it is that they don't have an 11-28 or similar, and how that helps drive some of its customers (and potential customers) away. And it doesn't seem like they're gonna change anytime soon. 

The kind of person who digs Campy probably isn't going to go, "Oh yay, I can run an IRD cassette (that probably doesn't shift quite as well) to get the gearing I really need."


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## Cyclin Dan (Sep 24, 2011)

spade2you said:


> Dismissing all differing opinions and telling them about REAL climbing isn't a way to encourage kind responses. Trying to be more stubborn than Campy isn't a battle anyone is going to win.


The only thing I dismissed was that I didn't want a 34x25 or 50x12. That's the only thing I dismissed.


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## Cyclin Dan (Sep 24, 2011)

SystemShock said:


> But it is him laying out his needs (local riding terrain = needs), which is valid.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


It is frustrating the way they have their cassette options setup, that's for sure. I appreciate that you can understand the position I'm in and where I'm coming from. 

My friend owns a big local bike shop...I'm going to see if he has any bikes with that mid compact that I can try out for a few rides.


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## SystemShock (Jun 14, 2008)

Cyclin Dan said:


> It is frustrating the way they have their cassette options setup, that's for sure. I appreciate that you can understand the position I'm in and where I'm coming from.
> 
> My friend owns a big local bike shop...I'm going to see if he has any bikes with that mid compact that I can try out for a few rides.


Cool! Hopefully it has the 12-29 as well, or he's okay with having it put on temporarily.


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## spade2you (May 12, 2009)

SystemShock said:


> True dat. I don't think Campy understands how lame it is that they don't have an 11-28 or similar, and how that helps drive some of its customers (and potential customers) away. And it doesn't seem like they're gonna change anytime soon.
> 
> The kind of person who digs Campy probably isn't going to go, "Oh yay, I can run an IRD cassette (that probably doesn't shift quite as well) to get the gearing I really need."


Campy, no 11-28, but you can buy a gold cork screw for $300 (face palm). It's really too bad that no other companies have a right shifter like Campy. I suspect that would force them to be more flexible and not simply tell the consumer what they should want. 

When I got my 11 speed, they weren't doing anything 11sp for TT bikes. No power cranks until recently and I'm pretty sure both of my Quarqs were cheaper than one Campagnolo SRM. 

I would think the 11 speed cassette would make the jumps a little less drastic. Part of me wonders if they're reluctant because it might be difficult for a 11-29 to be as smooth as the 11-23 or so.


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## SystemShock (Jun 14, 2008)

spade2you said:


> I would think the 11 speed cassette would make the jumps a little less drastic. Part of me wonders if they're reluctant because it might be difficult for a 11-29 to be as smooth as the 11-23 or so.


My personal guess would be that it was more a bad/doctrinaire assumption on Campy's part than anyone who wanted an 11t cog would also not want/need anything bigger than a 25t too.

If so, they somehow completely missed the popularity of 11-28 on the Shimano/SRAM side. Go figure.


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## SystemShock (Jun 14, 2008)

Oddly enough, RBR has a weekly (?) 'Forum Report' highlighting the most interesting threads, and this one is one of 'em:

*Forum Report: Helmet Use, Gearing, and Cycling Socks | Road Bike News, Reviews, and Photos*


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## odearja (Jan 22, 2013)

Cyclin Dan said:


> ......race coming up that is 118 miles and has over 12,000 feet of climbing. It's not for about 4 months, but that has me a little nervous with the gearing I currently have. The race ends with an 8 mile, 7-9% climb with a summit finish. That's after two long hard climbs (one being 15+ miles), and several shorter (1-2 miles at 10%) hard climbs.


one word. . . . EGAD! you are a machine to consider that!



Cyclin Dan said:


> I know I don't want a standard compact...my rear cassette is a 12/29 and in order to get an 11 (which I would have to have going to a 50T front ring) my biggest rear cog can be a 25, which won't work for me.


I'm new, but I would like to be able to find some more info on how to figure this stuff out. Do you have any sources I could look into?

I would also think that wim might be right. I am not sure that it would be cost effective.


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## carlislegeorge (Mar 28, 2004)

SystemShock said:


> Oddly enough, RBR has a weekly (?) 'Forum Report' highlighting the most interesting threads, and this one is one of 'em...


At least SOMEBODY has a sense of humor around here...


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## Cyclin Dan (Sep 24, 2011)

odearja said:


> one word. . . . EGAD! you are a machine to consider that!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Figuring out the gear ratios is just simple math. PM me your email and I can send you a spreadsheet I made that does it.

That, or you can find a web based one real quick on Google.


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## SystemShock (Jun 14, 2008)

carlislegeorge said:


> At least SOMEBODY has a sense of humor around here...


:lol:


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## SystemShock (Jun 14, 2008)

Cyclin Dan said:


> To address your other points...yes, I want to stick with Campy. I really love the feel and performance of it. I appreciate your suggestion to trying a custom 11/29 and 52/36.
> 
> *I think I may try the 52/36 FIRST, and see if the 52/12 provides enough or if I feel like I need an 11.* Hopefully the 52/12 will work, because I am not excited about the thought of buying two cassettes each time I need one (although it would leave me with a 12/25 to sell I guess).
> 
> 8,000 feet over 70 miles is a lot climbing too! There are so many people all over the country that don't ever get the opportunity to take a ride like that, and they have no idea what it's like to drag your but up a canyon for 15+ miles of sustained climbing.



So Dan, it's almost two months later. Which way'd you end up going on this?


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## Cyclin Dan (Sep 24, 2011)

SystemShock said:


> So Dan, it's almost two months later. Which way'd you end up going on this?


I went the HTFU and train more route, for now. I've got a big, but not super important to me, race in early June. I'm going to see how that goes first. I've been distracted with an employment change that has given me little time to ride or really even think about this. Life is just too busy sometimes. 

I did smoke most of my riding partners up a 3 mile climb the other day, although this one was only about a 4% grade. 

I need to figure it out, but likely won't for about a month. I need to free up some time to think about it, train, and see how that race goes. I've ridden this gearing for 3 years...


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## ph0enix (Aug 12, 2009)

aclinjury said:


> You should get a compact.


Compact isn't for everyone. I had a compact crank on a bike before and found the gear spacing to be very awkward. I could never find the right gear. I don't have that problem with a standard double. It wasn't a matter of simply getting used to it either since I gave it an honest try (rode the compact for about 5,000 miles). Personally I would take 53/39 with a larger cassette any day. You couldn't pay me to ride a compact again.


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## aclinjury (Sep 12, 2011)

One of the top GC contener in Giro d'Italia is Ryder Hesjedal. For flat stage, he uses 53/39 and 11-25. For mountainous stage, he uses 53/36 and 11-27. And this is from a top pro who won the Giro last year. Now I reckon the mountains of Utah are probably somewhat similar to the mountains of Italy.

So this gives us an idea what a top pro are using, guys with a much greater W/kg number than anyone on RBR.


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## SystemShock (Jun 14, 2008)

ph0enix said:


> Compact isn't for everyone. I had a compact crank on a bike before and found the gear spacing to be very awkward. I could never find the right gear. I don't have that problem with a standard double.
> 
> It wasn't a matter of simply getting used to it either since I gave it an honest try (rode the compact for about 5,000 miles). Personally I would take 53/39 with a larger cassette any day. You couldn't pay me to ride a compact again.


I like compact, a lot of ppl do, but compact's Dirty Little Secret™ is that if your setup doesn't have either

1) an 18t cog in the cassette, or
2) a 36t inner ring AND a cassette that starts with an 11t

...then the gearing is inconvenient for a lot of riders on the flats.

The reason why is that, compared to a standard double where you can be in the inner ring on the flat and ride 39x13,14,15, which are great flats/solo gears and are all 1-tooth jumps, you instead have a 34t inner ring that's too small for that... 34x13,14,15 are a little too light in gearing range for most ppl. Even 34x12,13,14 is a little light, if you have a cassette that starts with 11t.

You can try riding the big ring instead (which is actually a little more efficient in terms of power transfer and putting less wear on your cogs), but without that 18t, you're dealing with 2-tooth jumps for your main cruising gears (50x16,17,18,19 is nice, 50x17,19,21, less so). Kinda defeats much of the point of having anything more than a 7-speed cassette. 

This is part of why putting a 36t on compact has become kinda/sorta popular, and why 'mid-compact' (52/36) is gaining traction. 36x12,13,14 are almost *exactly* the same gears as 39x13,14,15. Of course, now you need a cassette that starts with an 11t, so that 36x12 isn't a cross-chain gear (i.e. small-small).

You can definitely see how some compact setups with the 34t inner ring could be frustrating for some ppl. That said, it also seems pretty much here to stay, because standard double has its own shortcomings, such as not giving a very low low-gear... at least not without a mega-range cassette, which then causes you to have big ol' jumps between gears. rrr:


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## spade2you (May 12, 2009)

aclinjury said:


> One of the top GC contener in Giro d'Italia is Ryder Hesjedal. For flat stage, he uses 53/39 and 11-25. For mountainous stage, he uses 53/36 and 11-27. And this is from a top pro who won the Giro last year. Now I reckon the mountains of Utah are probably somewhat similar to the mountains of Italy.
> 
> So this gives us an idea what a top pro are using, guys with a much greater W/kg number than anyone on RBR.


Still seems like a lot of effort to avoid getting a compact given the 27. 

About the only time I've felt a 50x11 was a recent road race with some steep rollers with a tail wind. I'd be in probably my 2nd or 3rd lowest gear and have to throw it to the 50x11 and spin as fast as I could.


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## SystemShock (Jun 14, 2008)

aclinjury said:


> One of the top GC contener in Giro d'Italia is Ryder Hesjedal. For flat stage, he uses 53/39 and 11-25. For mountainous stage, he uses 53/36 and 11-27. And this is from a top pro who won the Giro last year. Now I reckon the mountains of Utah are probably somewhat similar to the mountains of Italy.
> 
> So this gives us an idea what a top pro are using, guys with a much greater W/kg number than anyone on RBR.


+1. Yes, those are some insane climbs they're going up on some stages of the Giro, but at the same time, those riders also have insane power-to-weight ratios and VO2 max compared to your average recreational rider. They also do nothing but train, a luxury most of us do not have, sadly. 

If top Giro guys are using 36x27 or 34x29 (as I've read in past Giros), then there's *zero* shame in a recreational rider getting and using the same gear, no matter what the local poseur squad has to say about it. 

In fact, said rec rider could/should be geared lower than that, obviously, if his local climbs even approach the severity of some of the stuff you find in the Giro. That's just logic and common sense at play.


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## ph0enix (Aug 12, 2009)

SystemShock said:


> I like compact, a lot of ppl do, but compact's Dirty Little Secret™ is that if your setup doesn't have either
> 
> 1) an 18t cog in the cassette, or
> 2) a 36t inner ring AND a cassette that starts with an 11t
> ...


This makes sense. Now I want to try a 52/36 set-up.


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## SystemShock (Jun 14, 2008)

ph0enix said:


> This makes sense. Now I want to try a 52/36 set-up.


It'll probably be on my next bike as well.


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