# Specialized Roubaix SL4 Frame Choice??



## CJR1960 (Sep 30, 2012)

new to site and trying to add this to Specialized forum (already put this in General Forum. If wrong approach...my mistake :blush2

My name is Cliff & I may be the oldest rookie in the road biking game! I am joining you fine athletes at the tender age of 52 and I’m already faced with my first dilemma. Tomorrow night I go to my local bike shop to select my bike, and could really use the advice of this well-educated forum to become better informed. At just under 6’3” (and 36” from crotch to floor) everything I read puts my frame sizing decision squarely in my hands. All of the available on-line info, including a number of posts on this site, put me between a 61cm & a 58cm Roubaix SL4 frame.

What I have summarized:
Out of the box 58cm: Would require that I raise the seat higher from the frame. I would be closer to the handlebars but based on seat height would have to lean DOWN more to reach them. This can be offset by adjusting the stem up as needed with spacers (free) or stem angle (new stem or flipping it?). The reach OUT to the handlebars can be adjusted to a degree by seat location (free) & stem length (new stem). The result would be a smaller frame (lower center of gravity, weight) but elevated touch points (ass & hands) based on adjustments, & a smaller wheelbase (slightly better handling).

Out of the box 61cm: Would allow a seat height closer to the frame & I would have to lean DOWN less to reach the handlebars. The reach OUT to the handlebars would be further but can be adjusted to a degree by seat location (free) & stem length (new stem). The Frame would be larger with a wider wheelbase (more stable). But with adjustments the touch points (A&H) could be made to be very similar to 58cm.

Open questions:
1. Are there major advantages to a smaller frame if touch points are equal?
2. Would a shorter stem (say 10, 20 or 30 mm reduction) have a perceivable impact to the ride quality of a larger bike.
3. Would increasing the height of the stem (with spacers or angle) have a perceivable impact to the ride quality of a larger bike. 
4. If the answer to 2. or 3. is yes; how so and which is the lesser of two evils
5. Will a .5 degree seat & head tube angle significantly increase/decrease distance from seat to bars if moved about an inch or so (not looking for precise number…based on experience is it something you factor in to fiting)? 
6. Is anyone still reading this, way too detailed, note ?

Since this bike should take me to my golden years &, like all of us, I expect to become less flexible over time I am leaning toward the 61 cm. I believe my options over time to “gentle” the ride with the 61 cm will take less drastic measures. If I was 40 and under I think the 58 cm would provide more opportunity to be more aggressive. My hope tomorrow is that by getting on both bikes & with the guidance of the bike shop it becomes an easy decision. 

If you get a chance and could weigh in with opinions on any of this I would greatly appreciate it….thanks very much!


----------



## AnthonyL88 (Oct 9, 2007)

Did you ever get a Specialized BG Fit? If not, this is highly recommended.


----------



## CheapSkate (Feb 26, 2012)

CJR1960 said:


> 1. Are there major advantages to a smaller frame if touch points are equal?
> 2. Would a shorter stem (say 10, 20 or 30 mm reduction) have a perceivable impact to the ride quality of a larger bike.
> 3. Would increasing the height of the stem (with spacers or angle) have a perceivable impact to the ride quality of a larger bike.
> 4. If the answer to 2. or 3. is yes; how so and which is the lesser of two evils
> ...


You are about my height and a similar age. I changed to a more upright position & now ride a frame with 638 mm stack and 417 mm reach. About the same stack as the 61 you are looking at, albeit about 20 mm more reach. The issue for me (and maybe for you) is handlebar height. On a modern carbon frame it's hard to make the bars higher (manufacturer limits on number of spacers, usually 40 mm), but easy to make them lower (-17 degree stem, no spacers etc). As we all get older those bars are only gonna want to go in one direction - upwards. So more head tube length now is worth getting, you might need it later.

I would go for the 61. Looking at the stack and reach figures you will "gain" 20 mm of handlebar height, at the "cost" of only 6 mm of extra reach. On modern carbon forks that 20 mm is really hard to get any other way. The 6 mm is neither here nor there - stems only come in 10 mm increments which illustrates this. 

Answering your questions

1. smaller is a bit lighter and "stiffer" whatever that means, I doubt you would notice the difference between 58 and 61. A pro would go for the 58, but he's worried about the lowest possible front end.
2. yes, you will perceive it. It won't be better or worse, just different. I noticed going from a 90 to a 110. Much less than 90 might make your steering a bit twitchy. But with the reach figures above I doubt you will need to go as low as 90
3. More spacers might make take away some front end "stiffness" but again I doubt it really matters. See manufacturer limits though, quite restrictive 
4. I'd say shorter stem is the worst of 2 evils, it will make the handling a bit twitchier. But see above, 6 mm doesn't really matter, your butt will probably move back and forth 6 mm on the seat as you ride. It's actually quite hard to position the seat to better than a few mm anyway.
5. don't worry too much about angles, you can fix all that with seat fore/aft positioning and seatpost setback.

Stack and reach are the way to go. They summarise all the variables into 2 magic numbers.


----------



## CJR1960 (Sep 30, 2012)

Thanks for taking the time to answer all of the questions...thit is a big help. I noticed that the bike I am looking at (SL4 Expert ) did not provide stack & reach numbers only the s works but all other geo numbers are the same.


----------



## roadworthy (Nov 11, 2011)

OP...61cm hands down for the reasons Cheapskate articulated. I am 6'1" w/35" inseam and ride a 58 with 130mm stem. I could even ride a 61 with 110mm stem.

What will happen is..you will buy the 61 which will not exceed the range of seat post extension for your leg length. You will appreciate the 245mm head tube length. Start with your stem turned up.
You likely will settle on a 110mm stem length which will feel more stretched out than you are used to.
What will happen over time if you continue to ride, drop weight, get more fit and ride with those that don't just meander but hammer at times...you will want a more aggressive position. This results in rotating your hips more forward and with a torso angle of about 45 degrees with your arms comfortably draped on the hoods. You will likely end up with a 120-130mm stem length.

To me for the aging cyclist in particular, the Roubaix is the best road bike in the world. It has no peers. The SL4 is probably even better than the SL3 I own which is an amazing bike. Btw, I am older than you and very rarely ever get droped in any bike riding scenario. It takes a Cat 1 or Cat 2 to drop me and he has to work hard to do so. Have fun. It will take you a couple of seasons of dedicated riding to build your endurance. You are choosing an outstanding bike and there is nothing like spirited riding and improving fitness for a lifetime.
Below is my 58cm with 140cm stem which is the best length for me for fastest riding. For distance riding...what I do mostly, a 130mm stem is best.


----------



## roadworthy (Nov 11, 2011)

CJR1960 said:


> Thanks for taking the time to answer all of the questions...thit is a big help. I noticed that the bike I am looking at (SL4 Expert ) did not provide stack & reach numbers only the s works but all other geo numbers are the same.


Stack and reach are identical for all Roubaix framesets. Keep in mind, these are relative numbers, aka they only have relevance if you have a previous fit history which you don't. They will be meaningful moving forward however. The reason that fit isn't a more exact science, is two factors weigh heavily in terms of your position on the bike. Foremost flexibility completely changes your tolerance for amount of handlebar drop...and even reach which affects torso angle nominally...and how hard you ride. If you cruise and not push hard on the pedals, you will like to be more upright. The harder you push on the pedals, the more naturally you will enlist your glutes and do so you will naturally lean more forward. You want the bar far enough away from you to give you room to lean forward without placing your arms in compression and inhibiting this position. Also, the harder you push on the pedals, the more naturally you unweigh your upper body. This is why most of us who are used to riding briskly will feel more tired if riding slower with say family members. 

So position on the bike is a bit of moving target based upon your level of fitness and riding style. As you improve, you likely will want a more aggressive position.


----------



## CJR1960 (Sep 30, 2012)

Roadworthy,This expalins how all the measurments play out while actually riding...very helpfull. I am inspired by your success and look forward to the many benefits this great sport can bring!


----------



## eschummer (Jul 29, 2011)

Just a quick little additional experiential data point: I'm 6'0 and have a 61 Roubaix SL3. Initially (this was my first road bike) I had the stem pointing up, just as Roadworthy mentions above. Now, a little over a year and more than 2500 miles later, I removed one spacer and flipped the stem around. (Ended up with the bar pretty much level or very slightly below the saddle).

My second road bike is now a BH G5 in a 58 size with a 140 mm stem and quite a bit more aggressive drop of 34 mm. All this arrived at during a real BG fit with multiple video angles, etc. (I highly recommend this!) I still haven't cut the steerer tube as I feel I might eventually end up even a little lower.

I should add that I'm 63 and flexibility has never been one of my strong points but has been improving steadily as the ridden miles pile on...

Thanks for your always helpful and highly logical posts, Roadworthy - you should write a book!

Very nice bike, by the way!


----------



## roadworthy (Nov 11, 2011)

CJR1960 said:


> Roadworthy,This expalins how all the measurments play out while actually riding...very helpfull. I am inspired by your success and look forward to the many benefits this great sport can bring!


Thing I will leave you with is some perspective about being in your fifties and being a strong cyclist. You can be if you want it and put in the time. Diet matters...some off the bike exercises helps...some stretching...I basically do situps and push ups and some curling...not much else. Also, cycling can be humbling. I know a Cat 1 in his 60's that can dust pretty much 99% of the 20 somethings in the area. He is well known and I ride with him for tips from time to time. Cycling is a skill. Kind of like playing the guitar...or maybe even better playing golf. If you look at many of the greats including he incomparable Eddie Merckx, they look like ordinary guys. So does my Cat 1 buddy...I am pretty average looking and so are many of the best in the world. Of course people are quite different where it matters...their endurance and their skill on the bike. Position and riding technique are huge. I routinely ride 50 miles when I go out. A short ride is 30 miles and long ride is 70 miles. I do this many times a week. But there are levels. I am decent but not a great cyclist. I ran into a really strong guy this year....also in his early 50's...story goes like this...

I was riding out to the park a month ago and feeling good...just cruising at 18 mph most of the way saving my energy for the hammerfest. A guy on an old DeRosa rode up to me...looked average...and I learned he wasn't.  He asked me where I was riding and I said about 20 miles out to the park to meet up with my group ride. He asked if he could join, and I said sure, the more the merrier. We rode out...not too fast...hit 20mph of different flat sections...and got out to the park. On the way out, I asked the guy how much he rode and was surprised by his answer. I ride probably 150-200 miles a week which I think is a lot of time of the bike. He said he rides about 300 miles a week. You see when I go for my 60 mile ride 2 X's a week, he does two centuries a week. So we make it to the park and the guys I ride with are different ages and ride pretty aggressive at times....pace line..average 22-24 mph....pulls in front of 25 mph are routine. So we starting the ride and the pace gradually picks up...and the guy that joined us simply took off. I tried to stay on his wheel and at least that day, I didn't have it. I don't get dropped very often. In fact, it had been a long while. For one thing, I can draft a guy who pulls at 25mph for miles. This guy had unbelievable power. Cat 1. So we hooked back up after the 9 mile lap around the park and rode back toward home together. On the way home, he came upon some racer friends that we waited for. Fortunately they weren't as crazy as he was  and rode more conservatively at 20-21 mph or so for most of the ride.

So there are levels and there are levels.  Once in a while you will come upon a top 5% amateur who if trying to, will really test you. 

In summary, how you ride...your cadence, position on the bike and technique are huge. No substitute for miles. Endurance if you ask marathoners takes seasons to develop. Bike riding is as much a skill as it is about your fitness.
Enjoy the journey.
Picture of the great Eddy Merckx below:


----------



## CJR1960 (Sep 30, 2012)

great story...maybe he was a former pro. Once again, thanks for the guidance..Your love for the sport comes out in your posts.


----------



## George M (Sep 25, 2008)

Everything has pretty much been covered, I just wanted to add that I'm an older guy as well and I'm 6"2" with a 35" inseam and I went with a 61 after owning a 58 in 2007 and this bike is like night and day compared to the 2007. I when with the Comp and it's the best bike I've owned and it fits perfect.


----------



## CheapSkate (Feb 26, 2012)

@OP

just a few other points

1. don't succumb to the Fit Nazis. All this knee over pedal spindle stuff, all these fit programmes on the Web or at your LBS. I'm highly skeptical. I did a lot of experimentation and it made no difference to my speed. Whatever works for you. Likewise the "slammed stem" brigade. Screw 'em. As RW has shown, makes no difference how high your bars are

2. Ride a LOT of miles between changes. When you make a change, it's all too easy to say, mmmm this feels wrong... I'll change it back. Stick with it for, I'd say, 100 miles. Get REALLY used to it. Until you've forgotten about it

3. Watch your knees! You've only got 2. Good saddle height matters, again experiment a bit, your knees will tell you if you are wrong. Also good pedals. There are lots of threads on here about good pedals for bad knees, if you see what I mean.

4. be prepared to waste some money. Some things you just have to buy to find out they don't work for you. You might have to buy a different saddle. Or two. Or three, to find one that works. Likewise pedals, no one can tell you what works for you. Tinkering with stem length will cost you some $ each time. No amount of Web surfing will tell you what saddle will work for you. You just have to suck it up and say "well at least I learned something".


----------



## CJR1960 (Sep 30, 2012)

Just back from th LBS. He built a 58 cm today so I could compare both frames. He had a 61cm on the floor. He put them each on the trainer & to be honest they both felt good. I did not have bike shoes on but my knee was about 1 inch beyond the spindle when we used the plumb weight. I took each bike for a short ride and actaully felt a little more comfotable on the 61 cm. I spent the next hour in the store frustrated that neither bike stood out as a clear favorite. It then dawned on me; if the differenes are so slight there really is no wrong choice. I put the black red & white 61cm expert on order and should have it on Thursday. Once my bike is fully set up & I clip into my pedals they have a Richie 6 degree 100 mm stem that I can swap out if I feel slightly stretched out.
A heart felt thanks to all of you for taking the time to help me with this decision.


----------



## roadworthy (Nov 11, 2011)

CJR1960 said:


> Just back from th LBS. He built a 58 cm today so I could compare both frames. He had a 61cm on the floor. He put them each on the trainer & to be honest they both felt good. I did not have bike shoes on but my knee was about 1 inch beyond the spindle when we used the plumb weight. I took each bike for a short ride and actaully felt a little more comfotable on the 61 cm. I spent the next hour in the store frustrated that neither bike stood out as a clear favorite. It then dawned on me; if the differenes are so slight there really is no wrong choice. I put the black red & white 61cm expert on order and should have it on Thursday. Once my bike is fully set up & I clip into my pedals they have a Richie 6 degree 100 mm stem that I can swap out if I feel slightly stretched out.
> A heart felt thanks to all of you for taking the time to help me with this decision.


Want to give you affirmation you ordered the right size. Even though you couldn't feel a big difference, there is no question that the 61 is a much better fit. Even though this is often overlooked, a brief test on the road or trainer does not tell much...especially for a newbie. As discussed most first getting involved say who are used to flat bar or dutch style bikes don't assume the position on the bike that they will if they start to ride faster with faster riders. Its a very different position. Rotating the pelvis with a good bend at the waist is the position you seek. 
A tip when you get your bike is this. Have your wife or s/o take a picuture of you on the bike. If you do this with a 100mm stem you will look VERY different than the picture below. The pic below is with little drop and what I consider to be a perfect recreational position on the bike. A world class racer will be even more stretched out. By comparison you will look much more upright at 6'3" with 100mm on a 61. You will be closer to the position below when you go for a stem closer to 130mm.
Enjoy the new bike and if you want better feedback about position, post a picture with you on it when you get it.


----------



## CJR1960 (Sep 30, 2012)

After a day & night of torment over my decision it was great to see your note this morning. The position in the pic would probably cause lower back & neck pain for me but, as you have said, maybe the future version of me will be able to handle it. The LBS measured me at around 90 degrees from hip to shoulder to hand with my knee an inch or so beyond the spindle (won't know final position until clipped in). Although I am obsessed with getting it perfect, I know full well that once I see my new, hot, tall beauty I won't look back! (I know it is just a bike but the lust I feel can not be denied). 

Thanks for the offer, I will definately send a picture.


----------



## roadworthy (Nov 11, 2011)

CJR1960 said:


> After a day & night of torment over my decision it was great to see your note this morning. The position in the pic would probably cause lower back & neck pain for me but, as you have said, maybe the future version of me will be able to handle it. The LBS measured me at around 90 degrees from hip to shoulder to hand with my knee an inch or so beyond the spindle (won't know final position until clipped in). Although I am obsessed with getting it perfect, I know full well that once I see my new, hot, tall beauty I won't look back! (I know it is just a bike but the lust I feel can not be denied).
> 
> Thanks for the offer, I will definately send a picture.


The position shown won't after you learn to ride. I know many trivialize riding a road bike...and they are generally those that suffer pain. A more upright position on the bike places the back in greater compression and bent forward elongates the back for less pain. The same dynamic in fact permeates motorcycle riding...cruisers generally cause more pain then stds or sport bikes...I have owned all of them.
Also, a handlebar too close, basically places the arms in compression when you want to enlist your glutes and lean forward. Having your arms more horizontal and less vertical makes the arms more like a hammock versus poles holding up a tent. A lot of this will go over the head of many who ride that suffer the false perception that a more upright position is more comfortable. It isn't. Too much drop however will evoke more pain because of more pressure on the hands. So the goal is out and up...and not a bar that is close in and down...former being the essence of Roubaix geometry. 
The challenge is finding the right saddle that won't hurt your junk when leaning forward. For me this is Toupe with cutout.
All will be more apparent when you post a pic and compare to the above pic which is close to the model recreational fit.


----------



## CheapSkate (Feb 26, 2012)

CJR1960 said:


> After a day & night of torment over my decision it was great to see your note this morning. The position in the pic would probably cause lower back & neck pain for me but, as you have said, maybe the future version of me will be able to handle it. The LBS measured me at around 90 degrees from hip to shoulder to hand with my knee an inch or so beyond the spindle (won't know final position until clipped in). Although I am obsessed with getting it perfect, I know full well that once I see my new, hot, tall beauty I won't look back! (I know it is just a bike but the lust I feel can not be denied).
> 
> Thanks for the offer, I will definately send a picture.


Yeah, RW's position is too low for me, it'd cause me a neck ache. I know, I've tried. A lot. And yes, I've done lots of exercises. I like to look at the scenery, hello birds, hello sky, I want my head up. Maybe my neck is weird. I'm a pretty fit 42 year old. I ride 4-5000 miles a year like this, ride 50-70 miles at a time, decent speeds. No back problems. I think there are as many fits as riders. Go with what works. RW's is one good example, I could post you a similar picture of me, but you know what you'd see, back somewhat less flat, bars maybe 20 mm closer. (I'm not saying I'm a good example of anything mind you, other than Some Guy On A Bike!!).

Definitely the 61 is the right choice. You'll never regret that extra 20 mm of head tube.


----------



## roadworthy (Nov 11, 2011)

CheapSkate said:


> Yeah, RW's position is too low for me, it'd cause me a neck ache. I know, I've tried. A lot. And yes, I've done lots of exercises. I like to look at the scenery, hello birds, hello sky, I want my head up. Maybe my neck is weird. I'm a pretty fit 42 year old. I ride 4-5000 miles a year like this, ride 50-70 miles at a time, decent speeds. No back problems. I think there are as many fits as riders. Go with what works. RW's is one good example, I could post you a similar picture of me, but you know what you'd see, back somewhat less flat, bars maybe 20 mm closer. (I'm not saying I'm a good example of anything mind you, other than Some Guy On A Bike!!).
> 
> Definitely the 61 is the right choice. You'll never regret that extra 20 mm of head tube.


Hi Cheapskate. To be clear, I ride with my handlebar the same height as my saddle so completely relate to neck issues as that is my achilles heel as well...no back but rather a sensitive neck to drop. To me the biggest mistake made by average cyclists is too much drop and bars too close in. Guys emulate pros with small frames sizes and short head tubes and a lot of drop...but they put the handlebar under them which aggravates drop and makes arms too vertical making road disturbances painful.

I will give you a further tip as a fellow neck sufferer. Choice of eye wear and helmet are big. Line of sight effects neck angle. Guys who wear prescription eyewear many times need to ride more upright robbing watts at higher speed. Rimless sunglasses make a notable difference...easily 5-10 degrees of neck extension...which makes a huge difference when riding in the drops in particular which I do quite a bit when hammering in a group ride.
See below for the sunglasses I ride:
PS: unrelated to the above, I have been following and contributing to your excellent thread on Campy PT. I will give you my opinion. We share the same belief on PT. Only difference between us...my background is product engineering development...is I would have long ago abandoned the PT crank which I believe is a poor design...independent of a weak wave washer...which would have resolved your isse with adequate preload. Shame on Campy but I have seen this dynamic all too many times as Campy has f-ed up before without no acknowledgment of error. If sticking with a Campy driveline, simply pick up a UT crank. One of the best designs out there...mine is 10s..with generic small ring btw. In fact, I am thinking about switching to DuraAce for the rest of my driveline and keeping my Campy UT crank.


----------



## CheapSkate (Feb 26, 2012)

roadworthy said:


> To me the biggest mistake made by average cyclists is too much drop and bars too close in. Guys emulate pros with small frames sizes and short head tubes and a lot of drop...but they put the handlebar under them which aggravates drop and makes arms too vertical making road disturbances painful.


Totally agree, that's why we both think the OP will be happier on a 61. The last frame I bought was way too low at the front for me. Even Wiggins might have winced. 


roadworthy said:


> ... robbing watts at higher speed. Rimless sunglasses make a notable difference...easily 5-10 degrees of neck extension...which makes a huge difference when riding in the drops in particular which I do quite a bit when hammering in a group ride.


That's the difference between you and me.... I don't give a stuff about watts at high speed, I just want to cruise along enjoying the sunshine, go fast or slow. Hello birds, hello trees. I never group ride. Horses for courses. Yeah I do sometimes wear prescription eyewear when I can't be bothered with contacts, and you're right I have to be a bit higher because of it. But that's fine with me. I can still burn off most of the freds round here on their Madones and SuperSixes, all with their matching jerseys 

Re PT, it's what I do for a living. Troubleshooting, due diligence, litigation, in comms engineering. Basically, clients pay me to find out where the bodies are buried. So I have a pathological need to find out. Will crawl a mile on broken glass to find out what the ^&%$s are hiding from me. Re UT, I'd be nuts to buy another outboard bearing system. My GF would throw me out. Cartridge for me - if it works, it's good is the new mantra! Cheers now.


----------



## roadworthy (Nov 11, 2011)

CheapSkate said:


> Totally agree, that's why we both think the OP will be happier on a 61. The last frame I bought was way too low at the front for me. Even Wiggins might have winced.
> 
> That's the difference between you and me.... I don't give a stuff about watts at high speed, I just want to cruise along enjoying the sunshine, go fast or slow. Hello birds, hello trees. I never group ride. Horses for courses. Yeah I do sometimes wear prescription eyewear when I can't be bothered with contacts, and you're right I have to be a bit higher because of it. But that's fine with me. I can still burn off most of the freds round here on their Madones and SuperSixes, all with their matching jerseys
> 
> Re PT, it's what I do for a living. Troubleshooting, due diligence, litigation, in comms engineering. Basically, clients pay me to find out where the bodies are buried. So I have a pathological need to find out. Will crawl a mile on broken glass to find out what the ^&%$s are hiding from me. Re UT, I'd be nuts to buy another outboard bearing system. My GF would throw me out. Cartridge for me - if it works, it's good is the new mantra! Cheers now.


Crawling over broken glass has merit and largely what separate people...those willing to find answers and those not and therefore don't. But, seeing around corners is a talent developed by crawling over broken glass...and why I only would have gone so far. The reason is, I knew the answer as I suspect you did, and also knew there was virtually no chance of concilliation or acceptance of your premise by the mother company. So you crawled over broken glass and got a lot of shardes in your knees and nothing to show for it other than left with a defective product and wasted time. Sad and all too predictable...when dealing with the above the law storied Campagnolo. Personally, I hate square taper and believe external bearing cranks are far superior...but in the grand scheme...transparent to the average cyclist.
Good luck moving forward CS.
Cheers.


----------



## CheapSkate (Feb 26, 2012)

Sure, I _always_ have to know the answer, sometimes at great personal cost to me. I'm aware it's a huge character flaw. But on the other hand, clients pay me very, very handsomely for the same tenacity. 

Anyway, enough about my character flaws. Let's leave the OP to worry about whether he ordered the right frame


----------



## George M (Sep 25, 2008)

Now that I have the 61 with less drop and more reach I have my back about 35 to 40 degrees as I ride on the hoods. On my rides I usually average 15 mph, but I've only been riding for a little over 6 years and I'm 72 years old. So I guess you have to factor the age in there as well. I am getting faster, which surprises me though. I only ride 150 miles a week, because of the heat here in south Texas.


----------



## CJR1960 (Sep 30, 2012)

George M said:


> ...but I've only been riding for a little over 6 years and I'm 72 years old. So I guess you have to factor the age in there as well. I am getting faster, which surprises me though. I only ride 150 miles a week, because of the heat here in south Texas.


Very impresive...I don't even know you & am proud of you!


----------



## George M (Sep 25, 2008)

CJR1960 said:


> Very impresive...I don't even know you & am proud of you!


Thanks for the encouragement, I need all I can get.:thumbsup:


----------



## CJR1960 (Sep 30, 2012)

*The bike is in thegarage!!!!!*

Thanks to all of you for the insight & the guidance through this fun journey to a new bike!
Kim's Bike Shop in New Brunswick New Jersey had the best prices, and coupled that with great service. David Kim (pictured below) son of the owner & former Rutgers University Cyclist patiently walked me through this process end-to-end. You can tell from my posts that it was not easy for him. I have included a few pictures of me on the bike so you can see for yourself what the fit for a 6'3" person looks like on a Roubaix 61 cm (I ended up keeping the stock 110mm stem figuring I could always go to 100 mm if needed)....thanks again 

getting error on photo upload will add later


----------



## CJR1960 (Sep 30, 2012)

Pics from LBS


----------



## George M (Sep 25, 2008)

Hi Cliff, looking good. I think you did the right thing going with the 110 stem. I kind of think you should try a 120. I have a FSA 32 mm set back seat post, so I'm stretched out a lot more than you and I feel pretty comfortable. In fact I did a 50 mile ride today and still felt pretty fresh when I got back. Not sure, but I think the reach on my handlebars are a little more as well. If your anything like me, you'll probably play around and tweak it more as you go. 
Anyhow, congratulations on the new bike. Ride safe and have fun.


----------



## roadworthy (Nov 11, 2011)

CJR1960 said:


> Pics from LBS


Congrats on the bike...great choice...and 61cm is the right size for your tall body.
But...your position doesn't even approach a recreational roadie fit. Please take this constructively and not critically. You are coming from a bike shop with a common poor position...more beach cruiser than road bike. Over time if you start to ride with better riders which I hope you do, your position will morph. A general rule is about a 45 degree torso angle with arms bent on the hoods. You are much too upright. You can't get much power to the pedals and may even suffer neck/trap/shoulder pain on long rides because when you put more pressure to the pedals to enlist your strong muscles...your glutes and not quads, your torso angle will naturally want to flatten. But your handlebar is too close to your saddle which will place your arms in compression and put tension into your neck and shoulders.

I endorse a high handlebar position like you have with upturned stem. Nothing wrong with that for an average recreational rider. But you need more horizontal reach.
A good metric is saddle tip to handlebar center. A 6'3" guy should be in the 600-610mm range for this dimension. A 6'3" pro like Hincappie or Boonen who are your height will be in the 640mm range.

In summary, you will need a 130mm stem on the bike if you want closer to a nomimal recreational position....not going the other way. 

Have fun with the new bike.
PS: In an effort to help as riding position is so hugely important to not only performance but comfort over long rides, below are two good illustrations of proper fit. A further misconception is...many ride with too tall a saddle. You should have some knee bend at the bottom of your pedal stroke for not only cadence but knee health as shown below.


----------



## CJR1960 (Sep 30, 2012)

roadworthy said:


> Congrats on the bike...great choice...and 61cm is the right size for your tall body... But your handlebar is too close to your saddle which will place your arms in compression and put tension into your neck and shoulders..


Pleased to hear I have the right frame...much easier to change stems than frame! In my pic vs the correct sample, it seems like I could use more bend at the elbow, which should flaten me out. Once I improve enough to get the hind quarters more involved, as you described, I will certainly look into a longer stem...thanks once again for some great advice.


----------



## CJR1960 (Sep 30, 2012)

George M said:


> Hi Cliff, looking good. I think you did the right thing going with the 110 stem. I kind of think you should try a 120. I have a FSA 32 mm set back seat post, so I'm stretched out a lot more than you and I feel pretty comfortable. In fact I did a 50 mile ride today and still felt pretty fresh when I got back. Not sure, but I think the reach on my handlebars are a little more as well. If your anything like me, you'll probably play around and tweak it more as you go.
> Anyhow, congratulations on the new bike. Ride safe and have fun.


Thanks George...may extend the stem over time as I improve....(50 mile :thumbsup


----------



## roadworthy (Nov 11, 2011)

CJR1960 said:


> Pleased to hear I have the right frame...much easier to change stems than frame! In my pic vs the correct sample, it seems like I could use more bend at the elbow, which should flaten me out. Once I improve enough to get the hind quarters more involved, as you described, I will certainly look into a longer stem...thanks once again for some great advice.


Yup...wanted to give you validation about the frame size. I am 6'1" on a 58cm roubaix with 130mm stem. You are basically a slightly scaled up version of myself. 

You may or may not learn over time that fit if you really get into cycling is quite nuanced. A little change makes a big difference. Take your assessment about bending your elbows. Yes bending your elbows will manifest more torso angle which you need to pressure your pedals...but not without consequence. A basic tenent or metric for overall position on the bike is you want your upper arm to be at a 90 deg angle to your shoulder/torso. So if you keep your short cockpit, bend your arms more you will develop an acute angle where the upper arm connects at the shoulder. This position produces fatigue. Many don't realize that riding a road bike is a skill..not unlike learning to play golf for example. Position is work in progress. Riding a bike with too short a cockpit promotes poor posture because you have to slump your back to fit a shorter cockpit...and rotate your pelvis rearward. This in effect places more pressure and not less on your arms and hands.
There is gent on another forum who is a brilliant guy and writes many asute things about cycling. He is an accomplished rider and has a gift for explaining cause and effect. I encourage you to read and re-read the article below. The camera doesn't lie...somewhat unfortunate but true  so adjusting your position and gaging it against a std. recreational riding position is never a bad thing. Having experimented with virtually every purmutation of fit, I can tell you that a short cockpit really fouls a pleasurable riding postion. Unless you learn to rotate you pelvis forward which in turn shifts your weight back and centers your center of gravity on the bike you will be destined to ride with too much tension in your arms. 

Great link on fit and also a nominal recreational position shown below:
Numb Hands


----------



## oldskoolm4 (Mar 14, 2009)

Congrats on the bike! Cool color scheme. My advice is to leave it just like it is in the picture and put in some miles and get a good feel for the bike. You can flip the stem anytime, as well as lower it down/up by moving spacers. I wouldn't buy anything unless you are sure it doesn't work for ya'. Just go ride and have fun. If you want to change posistion, take a multitool (I'd recommend this as well, if not that a set of allen wrenches) with you on a ride and mess with it some. 
Are you new to cycling all together? I know you said you were new to road cycling. Another bit of advice I'd offer is to invest in a pair of padded shorts.


----------



## CJR1960 (Sep 30, 2012)

oldskoolm4 said:


> Congrats on the bike! Cool color scheme. My advice is to leave it just like it is in the picture and put in some miles and get a good feel for the bike. You can flip the stem anytime, as well as lower it down/up by moving spacers. I wouldn't buy anything unless you are sure it doesn't work for ya'. Just go ride and have fun. If you want to change posistion, take a multitool (I'd recommend this as well, if not that a set of allen wrenches) with you on a ride and mess with it some.
> Are you new to cycling all together? I know you said you were new to road cycling. Another bit of advice I'd offer is to invest in a pair of padded shorts.


Thanks! The first couple of rides have been great. I will be leaving things stock until I improve. I am a complete road rookie but do ride a mountain bike, stricktly off road. I picked up most of the essentials with the new bike...saddle bag, shoes, shorts etc. & own some of the other stuff like tools already.


----------



## eflayer2 (Feb 15, 2002)

I have owned a 58 and now a 61. I wanted the bar height offered by the 61. But noone here has mentioned steering geometry. Since Spec. uses the same rake fork on all Roubaix, the two big ones, 61 and 64 cm have relatively high rake and low trail. My 61 is way twitchier steering due to low trail. Love the size, prefer the steering on the 58.


----------



## PJ352 (Dec 5, 2007)

eflayer2 said:


> *I have owned a 58 and now a 61. I wanted the bar height offered by the 61.* But noone here has mentioned steering geometry. Since Spec. uses the same rake fork on all Roubaix, the two big ones, 61 and 64 cm have relatively high rake and low trail. My 61 is way twitchier steering due to low trail. Love the size, prefer the steering on the 58.


Rather than trail being the issue, I think the possibility exists that going to a larger size changed your f/r weight distribution which (in turn) changed handling characteristics.

I say this because as a frames dimensions grow proportionally, trail drops to compensate for slacker ST/ HT angles and a stretched wheelbase. There's nothing unique to Roubaix's in that respect.


----------



## andis1981 (Mar 1, 2015)

Hallo! 
I am 189cm and inseam 91cm. I own 58cm Roubaix SL4 disc but this weekend I have tried 61cm and here is photo of bike..
The both are good for riding but somehow I feel better on 61. I used Straight Thompson seatpost on 61.


----------

