# Newbie- funny riding tendancies.



## Helmsdini (Nov 19, 2008)

Hey guys, this post might be a little long- so just throwing that out there. I am looking for an input from you more experienced guys (and gals) on what sort of training I should work on. 

For years I raced in a local MTB series. Last year I began commuting by bike almost exclusively and since most of my riding evolved to pavement work, I gravitated to road riding. I recently picked up my first road bike- a specialized tarmac. 

Anyway, I put in a good deal of miles, and I do a bunch of what I would call "resistance training" as I commute every day at about 80% max effort for 7-10 miles, on a heavy bike with about a 20-30lb backpack. I also climb hills aggressively. I have a background in long distance running as well, so I am more of a plug and chug type rider and not a sprinter. 

I started group riding about a month and 1/2 ago and I was amazed at the fact that I was faster than 3/4 of the group on my heavy 29er mtb with road tires. I started getting a reputation as a strong rider with the local group as I could out-climb every one on the rides. Of course, if they got a good run above 30MPH it was all over and the break away pack could leave me. 

Recently I started riding with some of the racers in this area (on my new road bike). I can hang with them for the most part- but I started noticing some funny tenancies about my riding style. 

My endurance is much higher than most of them, meaning that I can maintain a very high speed longer than they can without bonking- the catch is, that I cant sprint like they can- so if they attack, they can usually put a good 3-4 mph on me and leave me behind... of course it is generally short lived, and they slow after the attack, I catch back up and they cant maintain my pace for the long haul. On climbs, I can leave everyone- which is very odd, because I am 180lbs, 6'1 (probably the biggest guy in the group). I also dont climb like they do- they generally downshift to a low gear and stand up, while I am much more comfortable pumping a larger ring (also odd for a big guy) and sitting down for most of the climb. 

I guess my question revolves around the fact that I am generally a misfit on these group rides, and I am not sure if it is a good thing or a bad thing. I cant physically exert myself like these guys do on sprints, but my ability to maintain high-effort cadence cant be matched by them (think diesel truck vs. a race car). I also dont bonk like them, and dont require nearly as much of a "rest" or "cool down" before I give another shot at an attack or a climb. By the time we get back from a 50 mile ride- I still have gas in the tank to attack at the end and beat them. 

Sorry if this is long-winded or rambling but I am just looking for some training tips- should I work on riding more like they do, or capitalize on my natural abilities? I am definitely a low-cadence rider, that is where I am comfortable-spinning slower on the big ring. Maybe I am just cursed with a ton of slow twitch muscle and no fast twitch


----------



## brujenn (Nov 26, 2007)

You didn't say how old you are. Sounds like you have very powerful legs, which is great, but learning to spin will serve you well for a longer time. A lot of knee conditions/injuries result from pushing too tall a gear up the hills.


----------



## Andrea138 (Mar 10, 2008)

Sounds like you should learn how to attack/follow attacks and try some road racing.


----------



## Creakyknees (Sep 21, 2003)

in training geek terms, I think you have a high "lactate threshold" which means your max cruising speed is high.

what you lack is anaerobic speed / capacity, which is how they can sprint away from you for a few minutes. It's simply because you don't train that - I suspect you'd adapt pretty quickly if you did.

I also suspect that if you invest in a bit of study about training methods, you'd improve rapidly and be a very effective racer (if that's what you want to do).


----------



## Helmsdini (Nov 19, 2008)

I am thinking about working on attacks/ intervals a great deal and sort of going from there- road racing would be my ultimate goal, and I will start doing some century and fun rides soon, but nothing competitive just yet. (I do the 40+ mile group rides twice a week, and ride long distances by myself at least 4 more days per week)

Thanks for the pointers- I will definitely look at picking up a book and training more for anaerobic speed. Any recommendations?

I am 27, btw. I know the way I ride is probably hard on my knees, but I havent ever hurt myself or experienced any pain in my knees. 

Also forgot to add that I started out commuting on a single speed bike (44/17), which sort of built my low cadence foundation and climbing techniques, and I still single out my mountain bike and race that way a lot- but even on that bike I run a larger front chainring than almost anyone else in the classes.


----------



## Andrea138 (Mar 10, 2008)

Friel's Training Bible.


----------



## atimido (Jun 17, 2009)

Andrea138 said:


> Friel's Training Bible.


Yea dude, I am the same way. Friel would consider you a force rider over a speed rider. I first noticed it when my buddies were riding at a higher cadence than I was, and then I noticed what gear they were in and what gear I was in. I think Friel also stated that speed riders will burnout faster than force riders. I will look up the page in the Cyclist's Bible when someone tries to tell me I am wrong. I don't think there is anything wrong with being a force rider. And no, my knees do not hurt at all. Oh, and when I ride with the club and they sprint, I just push harder on the pedals or change gears. I find that if I consistently take in calories when I need them I am good to go.


----------



## Gnarly 928 (Nov 19, 2005)

This might sound a bit demeaning to you and no offence is meant, but are you sure you are really "faster"? "Able to go a long distance" at a higher speed? 

Most road group rides aren't about 'average speed' so much as they are about 'periodic big efforts' The bunch/pack goes hard for a period then they back off somewhat..Which might be what you perceive as them not being able to hold speed and you being able to sustain a higher speed over the long haul..You are likely catching back because they are no longer going really hard. Try riding away from the group off the front of the pack...And see if you can actually finish the ride ahead of everyone else..Or better still, enter into a real race and see how you do. If you'd like a pure test, find an individual Time Trial, compare your 'diesel truck' to the sports car's times. I'd be surprised if you were significantly faster than the norm...it all usually averages out pretty close..

A lot of new road riders form opinions about their strengths and weaknesses a little too quickly..and then hold onto these ideas..sometimes too tightly...It is worthwhile to 'try different stuff' as you gain skill and accumulate the miles. Keep an open mind.

Next time your group ride goes all out on a sprint, see if you can hang with them..Try really hard, don't just say to yourself.."Ohh, there they go, I'll catch em back when they run out of steam shortly". Next time you all come to a climb, toss down a challenge..."Hey Gang, I'll buy Espresso for anyone who can beat me to the summit" Look for the town limit signs on your rides and 'sprint' to them..Or many group rides over familiar routes have " agreed upon" sprints...try for those, see how you do. You will learn stuff and have some fun with the others.

Arnie Baker's Smart Cycling is a fun little book. Most of all, have fun with your riding.


----------



## vertex112 (Jun 18, 2009)

I am just wondering what category you where in when you where racing MTB? But I agree with the above poster. If you don't do the sprints, Then the exertion is different between you and the rest of the group.


----------



## JCavilia (Sep 12, 2005)

*change, your name to Jan*

and move to Germany. You sound like you should be a time-trial specialist.


----------



## Helmsdini (Nov 19, 2008)

ok, Friel's bible is on its way to my door. Thanks for the suggestions. 

Gnarly- Interesting points- and valid. I will try to keep up with the break next time, as I thought about that as well, perhaps I am saving more energy than they are, etc. I do know that I have challenged the strongest riders in our group (some nationally competitive triathletes) in the climbs and just slowly ride away from them- I have also ran away from the front of the pack before, but this is generally late in the ride when they might be more fatigued than I would. I will pay much more attention to this and just hope to get more seat time and continue learning as I know I have a long way to go. 

I am going on some solo rides- the next being tomorrow, and working on interval training. I am also going to make every effort to stay with the attack next time and the "break away group" instead of just chugging along and waiting for them to burn out, so we will see how that goes. 

To answer the last few questions- 5 years ago I was a cat 3 rider, within the last three years I moved to cat 2 and finally switched to the single speed class. I was fairly successful in mountain biking, but the races for my region are VERY far away (mountain biking has fallen out of favor here), the closest being 40 minutes and the furthest over 3 hours- so my attendance and zeal has slowly diminished and most of my off road riding has been evolving into more leisurely solo ventures closer to home. 

I want to get competitive here locally- but I just want to get in seat time now and learn my way around the group, all the tricks of the trade per se. I am going on several long distance "fun" or "charity" rides this year. I also plan on doing some time trial events in a local series and seeing how that goes. 

Thanks again for the help, everyone.


----------



## Alex_Simmons/RST (Jan 12, 2008)

Helmsdini said:


> Sorry if this is long-winded or rambling but I am just looking for some training tips- should I work on riding more like they do, or capitalize on my natural abilities? I am definitely a low-cadence rider, that is where I am comfortable-spinning slower on the big ring. Maybe I am just cursed with a ton of slow twitch muscle and no fast twitch


Well your muscle fibre type makeup has nothing to do with your cadence preference. But that aside, if you are new to group rides and the more variable nature of the effort during such rides, then it is no surprise that you find difficulty with that.

The answer, if you want to improve that aspect of your riding, is to include shorter, hard efforts into your training*.

However, what's more important is to participate in a range of events and find out what you enjoy the most. You might prefer to do time trials, or longer road races, or club tours etc. Some riders prefer criteriums and track racing.

I think Friel's book is just going to confuse you.

* it's like the number of people that tell me they are no good at sprinting. Then I ask them how much sprint training they do. The answer, inevitably, is "none". But they don't understand why they never get better at it.


----------



## Nimitz (Jul 8, 2004)

pyramid intervals...bring on the suffering.

Chad


----------



## JSR (Feb 27, 2006)

I agree that intervals would be helpful. You gotta be able to throw down!

You might also try spinups - easy gear, ramping up RPMs until your butt threatens to bounce. Concentrate on fluid, fast circles. Friel will explain.

JSR


----------

