# What is your definition of HTFU?



## jlandry (Jan 12, 2007)

Yes, this is a serious thread so take it easy on the flamin'.:thumbsup: 

I always read on this board people telling others to HTFU without giving any advice on how to actually HTFU.
I think this could help others on this forum and not just myself.

Me: I ride both Road and MTB about 50/50.(not a racer)
Male, 38 yrs old, 5' 7'', 185Lbs.(Need to lose 30lbs.)
Married w/2 young kids and work 40Hrs/W.

Although I do get out on the bike as much as I can, I often procrastinate and end up not riding because of tiredness, laziness, too busy, "I'll go out later", etc...
Same goes with nutrition. I know exactly what I should and should not eat, but the Cheeseburgers and Ice Cream win every time...even when I tell myself to HTFU.

Have at it.


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## dmar836 (Nov 17, 2007)

Develop a passion for pain..................... seriously.
We all work and many have kids. There are times I work a 12 hr night shift and don't sleep all the next day and still hit it hard that eve and I'm 42. I'm not a polished pro but I love to cycle more than sleep and watch TV(why am I not faster?). We all get "stuck" in front of the PC or TV. Cycling is a commitment of time. 30" of cardio 3X/week is relatively quick and easy at the local gym. Cycling is not easy and certainly isn't quick. It takes a passion for it and an understanding wife/family.
Cycle a lot and you can lose the 30# while still eating the cheeseburgers (with moderation).
You might hit the trainer on a few off nights so you can be home with the fam. Maybe ride twice a week outside after work. Do a long/hard group ride on Sat am - home by noon. Certainly not having to transport the bikes by car saves a lot of time.
Also, I find leaving the TV off causes me to look for things to do.
What's your current schedule? 
Dave
KC


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## jlandry (Jan 12, 2007)

Schedule? What schedule?
I think a sched. might be a great motivator. Any examples?


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## old_fuji (Mar 16, 2009)

jlandry said:


> Schedule? What schedule?
> I think a sched. might be a great motivator. Any examples?


i know exactly how that goes. find out if your LBS has a weekly ride night, and make it a point to go out there. it'll get you out riding regularly, it'll give you the chance to meet new people, and it'll provide you with a good excuse to get out of the house once a week.

i'm exactly the same way, i need to have something "concrete" to get me going, because i know i'm not gonna go spend hours by myself biking/golfing/skateboarding/playing hockey. don't feel bad that you're not one of "those" guys who can just hop on a bike and go for hours on end...although, i did know a guy like that once whose wife left him, so he pulled a Forrest Gump on a bike.


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## iliveonnitro (Feb 19, 2006)

Riding comes first. Life comes second.

To me, though, HTFU usually involves racing. ie, getting dropped is not an option.


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## Bocephus Jones II (Oct 7, 2004)

HTFU=Quit whining and complaining and stop making excuses. Get it done.


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## ericm979 (Jun 26, 2005)

jlandry said:


> Although I do get out on the bike as much as I can, I often procrastinate and end up not riding because of tiredness, laziness, too busy, "I'll go out later", etc...
> Same goes with nutrition. I know exactly what I should and should not eat, but the Cheeseburgers and Ice Cream win every time...even when I tell myself to HTFU.



It sounds like you know what you need to do. So do it. Setting a goal (century ride, race, whatever) makes it easier to get motivated.

Putting cycling in front of having a life is a good way to end up divoriced.


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## pretender (Sep 18, 2007)

More time on the bike. Less time on the computer.


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## spade2you (May 12, 2009)

To me, it's all about learning how to juggle things and making time to really ride. Does this mean to train harder or smarter? Yes! :thumbsup:


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## jlandry (Jan 12, 2007)

pretender said:


> More time on the bike. Less time on the computer.


Thanks, but the only time I'm on here is when I'm at work.


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## Kerry Irons (Feb 25, 2002)

*+1*



Bocephus Jones II said:


> HTFU=Quit whining and complaining and stop making excuses. Get it done.


Whoomp, There It Is!


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## crispy010 (Jan 26, 2009)

My schedule: 40 hrs/week working. Tues and Thurs there's a ride that leaves at 6, usually 2 hours of pure pain. Basically all the local hammers in Greensboro come out so you're guaranteed a good workout. Wed is usually off, sometimes Monday I'll throw in a 1 hr interval workout if I'm feeling good. Friday is variable. Saturday there's a local shop ride in the morning. Sunday is variable.

I should mention I'm 21, living at home for the summer while I work. Pretty much all I do is work, ride, and sleep. 

For me, how much I ride is mostly governed by how much sleep I get. More sleep = more riding.

It takes surprisingly few hours per week to maintain or improve your fitness, but you won't exactly be having fun on the bike - it will be work, and it will hurt. If you ride mostly for pleasure, concentrate on having fun when you ride.


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## Alex_Simmons/RST (Jan 12, 2008)

It's a hard sport, requiring hard work to succeed. End of story.


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## heathb (Nov 1, 2008)

It's pretty simple. You have a limited amount of time. 

Number one you need to cut out the junk food, saturated fat is not a good idea for someone wanting to get in good shape, at least not in the quantities found in ice cream and cheeseburgers. So cook your meals at home from now on. Thats something your wife and kids will benefit from as well. Fast food is your enemy and will only make you feel like a POS. 

The workouts for you need to be short and sweet. High intensity is the name of the game. 10 minute warmup and hammer for 20-40 minutes and you're done for the day. If you can't get away from home buy some rollers or a stationary trainer and a HR monitor and get the heartrate up and keep it up. 

You got weights at home or a gym close by. Todays cyclists, many of them racers are spending more time in the gym lifting then out on the bike. Most competitive local cyclists these days don't look anything like the twigs you see flying up mountains in the TDF.

Work on one thing at a time, don't load yourself down and burnout. That would be easy with all the stress of a family and kids.


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## Alex_Simmons/RST (Jan 12, 2008)

heathb said:


> You got weights at home or a gym close by. Todays cyclists, many of them racers are spending more time in the gym lifting then out on the bike. Most competitive local cyclists these days don't look anything like the twigs you see flying up mountains in the TDF.


They would be far better using that time on the bike than lifting weights. But perhaps that's why they ain't gunna ride the TdF. Lifting weights adds mass and has a negative impact on sustainable aerobic power. Less power, more mass. Pretty crappy outcome all round really.


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## thatsmybush (Mar 12, 2002)

Coming to mile marker 20 during a marathon and picking up the pace.

And the sentence below.


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## spade2you (May 12, 2009)

pretender said:


> More time on the bike. Less time on the computer.


LOL, I gotta do _something_ at work. You wouldn't expect me to work, would you? I think about biking while at work, but don't think about work while on the bike.


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## heathb (Nov 1, 2008)

Alex_Simmons/RST said:


> They would be far better using that time on the bike than lifting weights. But perhaps that's why they ain't gunna ride the TdF. Lifting weights adds mass and has a negative impact on sustainable aerobic power. Less power, more mass. Pretty crappy outcome all round really.


No one said they were built like Ronnie Coleman. What I mentioned is that weight lifting is an essiential part of their training for racing. 

This is Kansas/Missouri area, I can assure you twigs don't stand a chance on a flatter course. The big guys keep getting bigger and more powerful each year. 

The problem is all people see is TDF racers looking like twigs. There's a whole other world out their filled with guys with big legs(and considerable upper body strength) that will steam roll you if you get in their way. It's horse crap to think a bigger cyclist is a slower cyclist. Look at the best track cyclists. None of these guys have high body fat, they do have explosive muscle that is essiential on a crit course, TT, and 50mile road races.

Besides the OP is having trouble with time, he needs to maximize his results in the least amount of time possible, thus high intensity, ride hard and lift hard and get back to his life.

Competitive american cyclists that compete in the states are going to have a tough time if they look like this:


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## dmar836 (Nov 17, 2007)

"Robert, The concentration camp called......."


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## spade2you (May 12, 2009)

dmar836 said:


> "Robert, The concentration camp called......."


Jeeez!  

As for the skinny vs. big guys debate, I'm skinny and the climbs help me a lot. I don't do too shabby in the flats or TT either.


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## jlandry (Jan 12, 2007)

Thanks for the replies everyone. The first thing I did this morning is go for a one hour hard ride, no matter how much it hurt so early in the morning. 

I even wrote on the back of my hand, HTFU.


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## dmar836 (Nov 17, 2007)

I'm mid-160's with a goal of 158. I, too, think lighter is better......... for me.


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## spade2you (May 12, 2009)

I'm at about 125lbs. Ideally, I'd like to lose a little stomach padding and gain more mass in my legs to stay about the same. Part of why I got into cycling was figuring out that I could climb hills much easier than the average joe. My biggest challenge is working with my hours, 10 hour days either 7:30-6pm or 11:30-10pm. I was able to schedule my day off with my favorite group ride, but can't normally make them otherwise. Wedding planning, that make things a tad tough. Given the circumstances, I'm doing alright in Cat 5, but may need to get better hours if I want to survive in Cat 4 or get extremely creative.


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## Bocephus Jones II (Oct 7, 2004)

When you can do this you no longer need to be reminded to HTFU

http://www.9news.com/news/article.aspx?storyid=118857&provider=top&catid=188



> Plesko's greatest challenge has been the Tour Divide, a 2,745 mile mountain bike race from Banff, Canada to Antelope Wells, New Mexico.
> 
> Last year, Plesko tried to do a time trial solo, but couldn't finish. He decided to return this year to race against 40 other athletes, and he'd attempt it on a rigid single-speed.


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## kef3844 (May 30, 2008)

heathb said:


> No one said they were built like Ronnie Coleman. What I mentioned is that weight lifting is an essiential part of their training for racing.
> 
> This is Kansas/Missouri area, I can assure you twigs don't stand a chance on a flatter course. The big guys keep getting bigger and more powerful each year.
> 
> ...


I've seen guys that look like that rock it in crits in CO. No substitute for fitness!


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## Kerry Irons (Feb 25, 2002)

*Time conservation*



spade2you said:


> I'm at about 125lbs. Ideally, I'd like to lose a little stomach padding and gain more mass in my legs to stay about the same. Part of why I got into cycling was figuring out that I could climb hills much easier than the average joe. My biggest challenge is working with my hours, 10 hour days either 7:30-6pm or 11:30-10pm. I was able to schedule my day off with my favorite group ride, but can't normally make them otherwise. Wedding planning, that make things a tad tough. Given the circumstances, I'm doing alright in Cat 5, but may need to get better hours if I want to survive in Cat 4 or get extremely creative.


From Basic Training for Roadies by Fred Matheny (available at roadbikerider.com): here's a 7 hours a week, weekly schedule that works for many riders:

Monday: Rest day with 15 minutes of resistance training.
Tuesday: Ride 1 hour with 3-8 sprints or other short, hard efforts.
Wednesday: Ride 1 hour at a steady, moderate pace.
Thursday: Ride 1 hour including about 20 minutes of any type of hard effort.
Friday: Rest day with 15 minutes of resistance training.
Saturday: Ride 1 hour at an easy pace.
Sunday: Ride 3 hours at a varied pace. Group rides or hilly courses are good choices.

Remember, intensity is one key to this program. If you could ride 200 to 400 miles per week, sheer volume would guarantee a high level of fitness. But you can't.


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## rocco (Apr 30, 2005)

heathb said:


> Competitive american cyclists that compete in the states are going to have a tough time if they look like this:



Rasmussen can blow the doors off of 99.9% of American competitive cyclist.


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## kef3844 (May 30, 2008)

heathb said:


> Besides the OP is having trouble with time, he needs to maximize his results in the least amount of time possible, thus high intensity, ride hard and lift hard and get back to his life.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


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## otoman (Mar 8, 2004)

jlandry said:


> (not a racer)


There's your issue. Not that everone has to be a racer, but guarantee that if you have a race looming on the horizon (or century/tri/adventure race/whatever), you'll get your butt out of bed in the morning before work. Then weigh yourself every day. I know, I know, people say to weigh yourself once a week. blah blah blah. If you see the big fat blubber number staring up at you from between your feet each morning, you'll stop stuffing your pie hole. 

Sign up for some events, tell your friends and family you have done so and do it.


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## heathb (Nov 1, 2008)

rocco said:


> Rasmussen can blow the doors off of 99.9% of American competitive cyclist.


That's true if you talking climbing as he is a master at that disipline. On the flats or through a technical course he has proven to be less than a good bike handler and his power is questionable. 

Ever seen Rasmussen sprint, it looks like he's going to wobble and fall over. The man doesn't have the power. 

Big strong guys are in just as good a shape as guys like Rasmussen, it's just that it's harder to drag that muscle up a long climb, it's tougher to drag it along for a 160mile stage. Is a person really in better shape if they look like Rasmussen, especially for men that through history have had a body type that favored strenght and power for survival and mating purposes. There's a reason women prefer this body type:


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## Alex_Simmons/RST (Jan 12, 2008)

heathb said:


> No one said they were built like Ronnie Coleman. What I mentioned is that weight lifting is an essiential part of their training for racing.


Weight lifting is a NON-essential part of their training. riding a bike hard is an essential part of their trianing.



heathb said:


> This is Kansas/Missouri area, I can assure you twigs don't stand a chance on a flatter course. The big guys keep getting bigger and more powerful each year.


If they are more aerobically powerful it ain't due to doing weights.

I coach a 60kg athlete who set the world masters hour record this year. 48.317km. He quite readily puts the hurt on far bigger riders, even on flat courses.



heathb said:


> The problem is all people see is TDF racers looking like twigs. There's a whole other world out their filled with guys with big legs(and considerable upper body strength) that will steam roll you if you get in their way.


I don't remember Indurain, Ullrich, Armstrong, Riis, Lemond looking like twigs.



heathb said:


> It's horse crap to think a bigger cyclist is a slower cyclist. Look at the best track cyclists. None of these guys have high body fat, they do have explosive muscle that is essiential on a crit course, TT, and 50mile road races.


When did I say big = slow?

What matters most in endurance cycling events, even crits and track endurance races is aerobic power, and you don't get that from lifting weights. Neuromuscular power, which matters most for a match sprinter, kilo, kierin or BMX rider, can be enhanced from weight lifting (although not necessarily - plenty of strong guys who can't sprint out of a paper bag - one needs to be able to convert strength to speed) but the additional mass and reduction in aerobic ability from diverting training away from riding a bike and heading for a weight room would more than likely cause an enduro rider to go slower. 

If an enduro rider needs to improve their sprint or surge ability to cope with the demands of crits etc, then they are far better off doing that training on a bike, you know by doing things like sprints, standing starts, hard flys and other hard predominantly anaerobic efforts of up to a minute.

No point having tree trunk legs if you don't make it to the finale in good shape (or make it there at all).



heathb said:


> Besides the OP is having trouble with time, he needs to maximize his results in the least amount of time possible, thus high intensity, ride hard and lift hard and get back to his life.


If his time is limited, then absolutely make every available hour on the bike, anything else would be sub-optimal training.


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## Alex_Simmons/RST (Jan 12, 2008)

heathb said:


> That's true if you talking climbing as he is a master at that disipline. On the flats or through a technical course he has proven to be less than a good bike handler and his power is questionable.
> 
> Ever seen Rasmussen sprint, it looks like he's going to wobble and fall over. The man doesn't have the power.
> 
> Big strong guys are in just as good a shape as guys like Rasmussen, it's just that it's harder to drag that muscle up a long climb, it's tougher to drag it along for a 160mile stage. Is a person really in better shape if they look like Rasmussen, especially for men that through history have had a body type that favored strenght and power for survival and mating purposes. There's a reason women prefer this body type:


I'm not sure what women fancy is all that relevant to this discussion.

You honestly think that someone like Hoy, in form for his particular disciplines, would last 10 minutes in a track enduro or elite crit race? Crickey he'd get blown away in a team pursuit.


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## heathb (Nov 1, 2008)

Alex_Simmons/RST said:


> Weight lifting is a NON-essential part of their training. riding a bike hard is an essential part of their trianing.
> 
> If they are more aerobically powerful it ain't due to doing weights.
> 
> ...


What about those that aren't genetically blessed like Indurain, Armstrong, Lemond and your 60kg specimen you've been coaching for the masters races. 

The top levels of the sport are occupied by those that have gifts....not talent, but gifts. Just like one can't sit down one day and decide to the be a brilliant scientist from nothing more than developing a religious work ethic. You either have it or you don't. 

For the rest of us the weight room helps give us that extra ability. Sure cycling doesn't require your maximum power, but it does require a percentage of that maximum and if you have plenty of power than your percentage goes up that you can deliver to the pedals and keep youself out of the red zone. 

For me the proof is where the rubber meets the road, only by actually racing and coming up against the guys that are really good, picking their brains and finding out what delivered the best results. For me it was getting to be like a broken record when I'd ask them. The top guys in the P/1/2 all said the same thing, less time on the bike and more time in the weight room. If a man tends to win his races over an over and he's as intimidating to his competition as a big muscled up rider can be than I have no choice but to listen to what they're saying.

I'm looking around and the twigs aren't winning or even racing anymore. How many guys like to mix it up with 200+ pound riders in a crit if they only weigh 150lbs. 

We only know what we see and for most guys it's the same old thing, stage racers like Alberto Contador that weight 140 pounds, but what's happening in your backyard your local scene. This is what really matters.

Even my old coach use to call me the big guy 5 years ago when I was 195lbs at 6'2" and racing in addition to lifting weights seven days a week. Now I'm 165lbs and even though I can zip around, I know that my power has been lost to a certain extent. I feel like a skeleton in lycra compared to a lot of the guys I'm racing. So I've started back into the weight room and have cut my race season short with my last race last weekend. From here on out my goal is to lift 5 days a week and limit my riding to 1 hr a day and see if I can gain some strength. If it doesn't workout the worst that happens is I don't win my races, but that's happening now.


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## Alex_Simmons/RST (Jan 12, 2008)

heathb said:


> What about those that aren't genetically blessed like Indurain, Armstrong, Lemond and your 60kg specimen you've been coaching for the masters races.
> 
> The top levels of the sport are occupied by those that have gifts....not talent, but gifts. Just like one can't sit down one day and decide to the be a brilliant scientist from nothing more than developing a religious work ethic. You either have it or you don't.
> 
> ...


OK, believe what you will. It's impossible to argue with someone who relies solely on anecdotal evidence, simply because it is anecdotal.

If the OP wants to improve on his own natural abilities, he is best to do that by training on a bike. If your experience is gaining better improvements by weight training than riding a bike, then I'd suggest your on bike training was pretty crummy.


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## jsedlak (Jun 17, 2008)

I think it just depends on what you want to develop.

Guys like Cavendish do not train like Contador, Super Schleck Bros., etc. Likewise someone like a Leipheimer or Evans have big diesels that can propel themselves over the mountains but not quite respond to or attack like someone like Contador who has a lot of high gradient pop.

So train for what you want to excell at. But having said that, having some basic power is very helpful. I used to train for shotput and discus and I can tell you that having explosive power (and strong back muscles) has helped tremendously as I began cycling and now want to transition into a more well rounded rider.


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## heathb (Nov 1, 2008)

It does come down to what you want to do on the bike. Of course you still have to measure yourself against your peers, not those thousands of miles away, but those you compete against in your own backyard. 

Lots of money has been thrown into researching aerodynamics for cycling because that cost can be recouped from the bike and equipment companies. Little real research has been done covering a huge percentage of cycling population in regards to the gains from lifting weights. When there is a study it might be 10-30 cyclists. 

Look at what they know in track and field, look at the amount of guys/gals that have very well built bodies that are fast and powerful and then take a look at the sheer amount of participants they can study and gather statistical data. The problem with cycling is that all you have is former pro/top am cyclists as coaches and little money to study things that won't make a company lots of money. Plus we have a culture dominated by the grand tour scene and their dominant riders. 

Roubaix is the race that would be the ideal test of strength, it's flat and zaps the power from those legs quick. Twigs usually don't win that race. When is Contador going to enter Roubaix?


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## den bakker (Nov 13, 2004)

heathb said:


> Roubaix is the race that would be the ideal test of strength, it's flat and zaps the power from those legs quick. Twigs usually don't win that race. When is Contador going to enter Roubaix?


stuart O'grady: 160lbs
Peter Van Petegem: 150 lbs
Servais Knaven: 150 lbs
hell, Tom Boonen 180lbs at 6ft4 
Any any real world scenario all of those people would be considered anorexic twigs.

edit: how much time do you think this guy spends in the weight room? 
https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipe...1/Servais_Knaven.jpg/220px-Servais_Knaven.jpg


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## heathb (Nov 1, 2008)

Magnus Bäckstedt: 210lbs 6'4" winner in 2004. 


And Tom Boonen must of lost some weight due the coke habit. He's surely been heavier than 180lbs. Someone get that guy some food asap.

At any rate I'm going to put some muscle on my body and see how it goes. If nothing else it will make it easier to get laid.


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## den bakker (Nov 13, 2004)

heathb said:


> Magnus Bäckstedt: 210lbs 6'4" winner in 2004.
> 
> 
> And Tom Boonen must of lost some weight due the coke habit. He's surely been heavier than 180lbs. Someone get that guy some food asap.
> ...


I am aware of Magnus weight. That win was by the way one of very few in his career. 
You said that twigs normally don't win PR and I showed a list of rather light riders that have won it in the last 10 years. 
You go ahead and put on some muscle. It should make racing easier for the rest of us.


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## dmar836 (Nov 17, 2007)

Perhaps the weight training helps the 1/2s because they have already reached the point of saturation with high miles? Perhaps that breaks a plateau, adds a bit or pop, or taxes support muscles that don't see as much on the road...... until the climbs or sprints.
E.g., I doubt any book on beginning road cycling would start with, "First you need to hit the weights".
Amature opinion? It can't hurt off-season or even as part of a weekly program but I doubt the time in exchange for time on the bike would translate in 1:1 gains on the road.

OP, congrats for HTFU!

Gotta go now and do some high-rep pedal weight lifting,
Dave
KC


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## heathb (Nov 1, 2008)

The problem is that no matter how hard you hit the pedals it still won't match the maximum power you could generate doing squats and dead lifts.

How many of you have known the pain of pushing yourself to the limits under a barbell to the point you can't hardly walk or sit down the next day. It's hard to duplicate that on the bike if you've been riding and training for years.

Now you throw in a few more compound lifts and you got testosterone oozing out your ears. You train for hours every day only on the bike and you got estrogen coming out your ears.


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## spade2you (May 12, 2009)

Meh on the big vs. small rider stereotypes. I've seen big and small guys winning races. Very few of my races have been flat and I did alright. Naturally, throwing in some hills will help my odds substantially.


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## function (Jun 20, 2008)

Coming from a 'big' guy (6 foot, 175lbs) I'm all for doing gym work to strengthen ligaments and improve bone density, but i at most do it 1 day a week. 5 days a week with only 1hr a day on the bike likely will result in poor performance. I don't intend to demean your previous training plan, but It's very likely that it was too easy. I finally understood what it was to put a fair training effort when i was forced to ride everyday with a semi pro for 2 weeks, it was then clear how hard i was supposed to be going 3-4x a week. If i was in your situation, i'd forget about weight (dont bother trying to lose or gain any) and just go HARD on the road as often as you can.


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## spade2you (May 12, 2009)

Kerry Irons said:


> From Basic Training for Roadies by Fred Matheny (available at roadbikerider.com): here's a 7 hours a week, weekly schedule that works for many riders:
> 
> Monday: Rest day with 15 minutes of resistance training.
> Tuesday: Ride 1 hour with 3-8 sprints or other short, hard efforts.
> ...


Thanks! I'll be looking at multiple methods to use, especially to keep me entertained on the trainer (and rollers I'll probably get) when it's too cold for me. 

I'm definitely noticing how increasing intensity has worked. My hours changed from last year and I had been logging more miles, but despite logging fewer miles, I'm doing substantially better. 

Nonetheless, I wouldn't mind a job with better hours in the event I upgrade next year. My current job pays well, lots of vacation time, and plenty of overtime if I want it, but the politics, sucky hours, and crappy shifts are getting old. LOL, the problem is that my benefits keep increasing the longer I stay, making it a tad harder to leave.


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## old_fuji (Mar 16, 2009)

how many clowns can you bench?


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## spade2you (May 12, 2009)

otoman said:



> There's your issue. Not that everone has to be a racer, but guarantee that if you have a race looming on the horizon (or century/tri/adventure race/whatever), you'll get your butt out of bed in the morning before work. Then weigh yourself every day. I know, I know, people say to weigh yourself once a week. blah blah blah. If you see the big fat blubber number staring up at you from between your feet each morning, you'll stop stuffing your pie hole.
> 
> Sign up for some events, tell your friends and family you have done so and do it.


Ya know, this isn't necessarily a bad idea. Perhaps take a year to prime yourself, but I'd suggest the occasional event. Last year I wasn't doing much racing and it didn't take much for me to put off riding. Nothing like a race to light a fire under your ass! Excuses on why you're not riding and/or not giving your all on the bike. 

Several of our best local riders started later in life and from a pretty considerable physical deficit. The best cat 3 used to be about 100lbs over weight and was a smoker.


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## pretender (Sep 18, 2007)

heathb said:


> There's a reason women prefer this body type:


Skeevy women, that is.


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## pretender (Sep 18, 2007)

heathb said:


> At any rate I'm going to put some muscle on my body and see how it goes. If nothing else it will make it easier to get laid.


This kind of creepiness is repellent to women.


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## SilasCL (Jun 14, 2004)

heathb said:


> Look at what they know in track and field, look at the amount of guys/gals that have very well built bodies that are fast and powerful and then take a look at the sheer amount of participants they can study and gather statistical data. The problem with cycling is that all you have is former pro/top am cyclists as coaches and little money to study things that won't make a company lots of money. Plus we have a culture dominated by the grand tour scene and their dominant riders.


All the endurance runners are lifting?










You're out of your element Donny...


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## SilasCL (Jun 14, 2004)

den bakker said:


> stuart O'grady: 160lbs
> Peter Van Petegem: 150 lbs
> Servais Knaven: 150 lbs
> hell, Tom Boonen 180lbs at 6ft4
> ...


Even better, let's look at the best Paris-Roubaix riders ever:

Johan Museeuw: 6ft and 170 lbs

Eddy Merckx: 6ft and 163 lbs

Rik van Looy: Couldn't find the stats but by this photo he is about the same








Francesco Moser: Same story as van Looy
https://www.cyclinghalloffame.com/riders/rider_bio.asp?rider_id=18
Roger De Vlaeminck: Same again
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Roger_De_Vlaeminck

Boonen is the biggest of all the 3 time PR winners.


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## SilasCL (Jun 14, 2004)

heathb said:


> I'm looking around and the twigs aren't winning or even racing anymore. How many guys like to mix it up with 200+ pound riders in a crit if they only weigh 150lbs.


Even better, the last bunch of USA criterium champs:

Bahati: 6'1" 159lbs
Kirk O'Bee: 5'9" 154lbs
Brad Huff: 5'10" 173lbs
Tyler Farrar: 6' 164lbs
Jonas Carney: 5'9" 156lbs
Kevin Monahan: 5'7" 140lbs


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## heathb (Nov 1, 2008)

function said:


> Coming from a 'big' guy (6 foot, 175lbs) I'm all for doing gym work to strengthen ligaments and improve bone density, but i at most do it 1 day a week. 5 days a week with only 1hr a day on the bike likely will result in poor performance. I don't intend to demean your previous training plan, but It's very likely that it was too easy. I finally understood what it was to put a fair training effort when i was forced to ride everyday with a semi pro for 2 weeks, it was then clear how hard i was supposed to be going 3-4x a week. If i was in your situation, i'd forget about weight (dont bother trying to lose or gain any) and just go HARD on the road as often as you can.


The problem is I'm 6'2" at 165lbs. I'm looking down at my legs and compared to those that are winning the races it ain't looking too impressive. 

In past years I was pretty much always top 8 in most every race. It just seems that like last year there's a trend that favors the big guys. I'm the skinniest guy out there. The women have more meat on their bones than I do. 

I think I've gone too extreme with watching my weight. I've been back to lifting at the gym about a week now and my strength is nowhere near where it should be for squats and dead lifts. By dumping my race calender for the year and getting back to gaining muscle and not fat I hope my next season is better than this one. I can't do anything but try to do what the others are doing that are winning the local races.

I think at my height 180-185lbs is a good weight with low body fat.


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## function (Jun 20, 2008)

heathb said:


> The problem is I'm 6'2" at 165lbs. I'm looking down at my legs and compared to those that are winning the races it ain't looking too impressive.
> 
> In past years I was pretty much always top 8 in most every race. It just seems that like last year there's a trend that favors the big guys. I'm the skinniest guy out there. The women have more meat on their bones than I do.
> 
> ...


Well 180-185lbs at your height might not be a bad thing, perhaps watching your weight had a negative effect on your power output? A lot of people have ideal weight ranges for optimal performance. Sometimes getting skinnier isn't always the best idea. In your situation, i'd just ignore the bathroom scale and see what happens.


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## jlandry (Jan 12, 2007)

otoman said:


> There's your issue. Not that everone has to be a racer, but guarantee that if you have a race looming on the horizon (or century/tri/adventure race/whatever), you'll get your butt out of bed in the morning before work. Then weigh yourself every day. I know, I know, people say to weigh yourself once a week. blah blah blah. If you see the big fat blubber number staring up at you from between your feet each morning, you'll stop stuffing your pie hole.
> 
> Sign up for some events, tell your friends and family you have done so and do it.


I like this one. The very definition of HTFU.


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## jlandry (Jan 12, 2007)

Here we go. Since I don't wish to race but_* I do need a goal*_, I just signed up for the local weekly Hardman group ride. If these guys don't shame me into improvement, nothing will.


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## heathb (Nov 1, 2008)

Maybe you're biting off more than you can chew. Have you contacted them to see if they have riders that might be more your speed. 

Throwing yourself to the wolves might be discouraging if you have some catching up to do in order to hang.

On a side note I just got back from lifting this morning, dead lifts and squats and I can't even hardly walk my quads hurt so bad.


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## GearDaddy (Apr 1, 2004)

Here's a HTFU step-by-step plan:

1) Set some goals - Whether it is just to ride so many miles/week, or to do some races/events or upgrade to Cat 3, or just lose some weight - visualize it.

2) Communicate your goals - This is important if youv'e got family and kids. Let your spouse know what you want to accomplish and what that means as far as taking up your time. If they know beforehand, they will know what to expect and you may be surprised how supportive they can be.

3) Drive less and bike more. Go places on the bike. Commute by bike. For instance I found that commuting by bike, where I did an easy ride in to work but took the long way home for a training ride, was an efficient use of time.

4) Resist eating out. Not just junk food, but any restaurants. These meals are calorie bombs that you don't need at all. If you do eat out, try to do so only as a reward after a hard earned workout. Don't obsess so much about what you are eating, rather just think about how many calories you've burned as justification to eat whatever you want.

5) Watch less TV. If you have favorite shows to watch during prime time - sorry. You won't miss it after awhile - really. TV should only be watched after dark.

6) Eliminate lawn care if you can. I've always felt that every hour I spend mowing the lawn is an hour that I'll never get back.


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## jlandry (Jan 12, 2007)

Well, I did the local weekly Hardman group ride. Boy, did I get humbled. I didn't realize how slow I was by riding solo all the time. Those guys were goddamned fast, and held it that way for the whole 80K. I give those guys, and everyone with their abillities, major props for being so good. Yes, it was fery difficult, and at one point I thought to myself that I would not be joining them for the next ride. I even spoke my new mantra "HTFU".
Luckily, we broke into 2 packs and I hung with the slower guys. That brought my spirits up. I'm definitely going to continue with this group with the mindset of having a goal and improvement. 

I know that my new HTFU attitude and losing weight will give some improvement.

Now, how do I work at being able to keep up with these freaks?


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## pretender (Sep 18, 2007)

This thread has officially ruined the phrase.


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## heathb (Nov 1, 2008)

You may never keep up with them. That slice of humble pie is hard to swallow at first. 

It depends how fast they are. There's a limit for everyone.

I guess you'll start by loosing the flab. Doing intervals where you ride hard and recover doing ladder intervals of 1/1, 2/2, 3/3, 4minutes all out/4 minutes soft pedal and then go back down 3/3,2/2,1/1. Eat and get some rest.

You'll probably have to rack up the base miles as well, that takes time, something that is a premium for you with your family responsiblities.

For me I know I'll never be able to hang with the local cat 1 guys in my area for 80K. 

Genetics pretty much states that you might be able to improve your VO2max about 15% if you train hard. That is why the top guys are at that top.

Accomplish one thing at a time, don't overwhelm yourself to the point that you burnout and end up at a fast food drive thru.

Most importantly have fun.


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## jlandry (Jan 12, 2007)

pretender said:


> This thread has officially ruined the phrase.


Maybe I should have titled the thread, "Make Me Into a Hardman"...oh, uh..nevermind.


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## austincrx (Oct 22, 2008)

does anyone remember nevada city. Lance and Leiphimer aren't BIG, they still lapped the field of pro/1/2's. that pretty much settles it.

as for little time, wouldn't riding be the best use of time to improve riding?!

I've never done weight lifting, only on-bike training and i can podium in the 4/5's (maybe he's in a faster class).


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