# Chinese carbon frame Ebay and direct thread 3.0



## Coolhand

Seeing people starting posting in this thread, I will just convert it to 3.0 so not to lose any posts.

I will keep 1.0 and 2.0 stuck so people can still read them, and use them as resources.


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## BernyMac

I think it is time for a new sticky. Or even better how about a Generic Carbon Fiber Build photo gallery only. Keep all the tangent questions out.


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## Urb

Almost need stickies for each frame build but I imagine that would be unwieldly to manage in the long run.


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## campLo

We should have one sticky for frames/ordering and another sticky just for photos  I wanted to make a thread but I have not taken any photos of my FM015 yet. Hopefully this week.

This should be on first page of the new sticky

BIKESDECALS.com for those looking to add some bling to a china frame. The site is a bit buggy though


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## T K

This is getting out of control!!!
How about just starting a new web site, "ChinaBikes.com".


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## HeluvaSkier

I think a dedicated sub-forum in the manufacturer's forum section might be a better idea.


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## JimmyD

T K said:


> This is getting out of control!!!
> How about just starting a new web site, "ChinaBikes.com".




Have you seen cheapcarbonframes.com? some interesting stuff on there.


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## zach.scofield

I think info w/ pics detailing each frame version w/ specs should be made.


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## stubek

Time for 3.0, but maybe a 3.1 and 3.2 with one for general discussion about frame makers and sellers and one for builds based on the cheap frames.


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## campLo

HeluvaSkier said:


> I think a dedicated sub-forum in the manufacturer's forum section might be a better idea.


This is what we need


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## ClarkinHawaii

I think 2 threads:

1. general thread covers everything except specific experiences with sellers, both good and bad, which would be covered in the other thread.

2. Deals only with the vendors themselves, service, price, complaints, praise. This would be analogous to the seller ratings on ebay. This is where a guy would look after he's decided what he wants and just wants the best shot at not getting screwed when he buys it. 

The idea of a bunch of different threads sounds good at first, except most people don't want to have to be checking a whole bunch of threads just to make sure they're not missing anything.

Cheapcarbonframes.com requires additional signing up, etc., which a lot of people are not going to do. Again, it takes more steps to catch everything that is currently in one combined thread.

Somehow it's comforting to know that I only have to check one thread (or 2 max) and know that I'm up-to-date. Also, it's too hard to figure out where to put a post since most subjects would overlap categories--well, do I put it here or here--would be equally correct in more than one place.

Actually, i think it's doing pretty well just the way it is now (GOOD JOB!!)--EXCEPT that the buyer complaints and warnings should be easier to find.


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## zender

Need a "Chinese Carbon Frame FAQ" section that's closed to new posts and a thread with all the running garbage.

FAQ could include all the repetition, what frames, what frames they're copies of, outside links (alibaba, cheapcarbonframes, miracletrade), who the principal players are.

This does require quite a bit of work on the part of the moderator to keep the FAQ reasonably up to date.


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## stubek

ClarkinHawaii said:


> Actually, i think it's doing pretty well just the way it is now (GOOD JOB!!)--EXCEPT that the buyer complaints and warnings should be easier to find.


I think that is a short-coming of the forum software here, the search function. I can search for FM018 to see all the posts about the FM018 frame, problem is that I get one link to a thread with over 1,000 posts and I have to peruse that for the 26 posts about the FM018. If the search function could take me directly to posts so that when I search for seller XYZing, that would be hugely helpful.
So, for that reason, maybe a thread that is feedback on sellers without a discussion. Not sure if that is possible or how to police that.


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## ColoRoadie

*FM027 has arrived*

I purchased this setup from Tony at Dengfu through their alibaba account. Several emails went back and forth with questions from me, that were always answered by the following day. He is also easy to get in touch with using Alibaba's chat feature which I did several times. On the 8th of September I paid using paypal and the frame shipped on the 9th. It arrived in Denver on the 14th. That's 5 days, two of them being the weekend from Mainland China to Denver for $80 in shipping. It cost me $60 to send a box from Denver to Atlanta last week and it took a week to get there. I am nothing short of astonished at how fast this thing showed up. 

There are some minor places where the weave of one piece doesn't quite line up with the adjacent piece, which would probably send a more anal retentive costomer over the edge, but having done quite a bit of glasswork in my youth, my expectations from a chinese carbon factory were pretty low. They far exceeded those expectations. The finish is beautiful. I have not done any assembly as yet so can't comment on any of that, but will in the future.

So, I'm a proud new papa and took a few pics for posterity which I will share here since I haven't seen much about the FM027 in the three china frame threads. First a few details:

FM027 non ISP in 55cm
3k weave clear coated
two bottle cages
headset
extra derailleur hanger
$515 delivered 

There was one surprise when I unwrapped it...it's a BRAZE ON front derailleur!?! I sure didn't see that anywhere in the specs, nor is the bracket on the 55cm geometry sheet (though now that I look...it is on the 58cm geometry pdf). So...I bought a chorus clamp on that will arrive today...and go up on ebay. 

So, a few pics. The outdoor ones don't show the carbon weave very well so I included one using the flash inside.


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## BernyMac

That is a goood looking frame. How much did that cost you? Did you buy the headset as well? I am curious as to the bottom bracket if it has been prepared or faced?


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## ColoRoadie

BernyMac said:


> That is a goood looking frame. How much did that cost you? Did you buy the headset as well? I am curious as to the bottom bracket if it has been prepared or faced?


$515 delivered for frame, fork, cages, headset, extra hanger & shipping

Pics of BB

















One interesting note. The front derailleur cable has a chase up through the frame....but the hole doesn't line up with the guide. Heat the guide up and bend it, or slot the guide bolt hole so the two line up...but the cable will surely rub against the carbon where it turns into the frame and slice it.....right?


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## FTR

I definitely think it is time for a locked FAQ regarding these frames.
I am planning on starting to do some crit racing later this year and am thinking I would rather do that on one of these than on my Moots.
I would cry if I crashed the Moots but would care far less about crashing and hurting the cheap carbon.
Unfortunately I am at the stage where it is all getting too confusing trying to work out what is good, what is bad, who is scamming, who carries what.
Perhaps a 2nd sticky with pics, a description of what frame model it is and what additional components were also sourced from that seller.


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## stubek

After talking with a seller through TradeManager for almost an hour, they said I can send the Western Union payment to whoever I want and just send proof of the payment to the seller. Once they see the proof, they will mail my package. Once I receive the package, I call Western Union and change the name on my payment to the seller's name and information.

It seems safe. The seller even said send the payment to my wife, and then change it to them.

Has anyone ever done this?
Thanks


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## ColoRoadie

As easy as it is to setup a paypal account...I really have to wonder about sellers who refuse to do it.


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## aikendrum

You may find you can reseat the cable guide so it will be at least in line - wear should be minimal given it's for the front derrailier only - I find I don't use my smaller chainring - I am even considering taking it off to make my bike lighter - go figure. Otherwise you should be able to pick up a similar cable guide that covers the space better.

Photo from my FM015 BB cable guide.


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## stubek

ColoRoadie said:


> As easy as it is to setup a paypal account...I really have to wonder about sellers who refuse to do it.


Two different sellers told me the reason they don't use paypal is the length of time to get the money from PayPal to their bank account and that in their industry, they need to have cash for quick turn arounds.


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## ColoRoadie

Ok, but when they lose sales to your competition who are not so short sighted, that business decision seems rather odd. The sales that they can convince to wire money to them will still exist....in addition to those, like me, who would never buy something from China without some sort of buyers protection (credit card company or paypal). There are too many horror stories.


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## ms6073

stubek said:


> Two different sellers told me the reason they don't use paypal is the length of time to get the money from PayPal to their bank account


Got to say I can readily understand that point of view. I really, really dislike the fact that when I send money or buy sometyhing via PayPal, the money is debited from my bank account within hours at most yet when I sell something on Ebay, it takes PayPal 3-5 days when I opt to move the funds from PayPal to my bank but that is an entirely different topic of discussion.


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## asherstash1

search for "rondelli" some guy over here builds this frame up, theres some reviews about on it


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## yurl

*My experience so far with Miracle Trade*

ok. I've received my order (well most of it) from Miracle Trade (Jack Chen).
ordered and paid for via Electronic Bank Transfer 5/8. shipment came on the 14/9.
Communications were generally good and quick. however after you order there isn't much feedback on how your order is progressing. I had to chase up for progress twice. it would have been nice if they gave you an email to let you know your package has been shipped and give you the EMS tracking number.

My order was 
- MC015 frame 3k matt clearcoat (HongFU FM0015)
- carbon fork 3k matt clearcoat
- carbon seatpost 3k
- carbon handlebars 3k
- carbon stem 3k
- 2 x carbon bottle cages
- headset
- extra rear derailleur hanger
- seatpost clamp (freebie)
Total $640USD

The box arrived pretty mangled, like it had been handled by gorillas, but the frame and bits inside were well enough padded, so apart from one tiny cosmetic scratch the parts were undamaged. the finish on the frame and fork is excellent. the weave matches up well, the matt finish is just what i wanted, the weave is visible but not shiny. from initial inspection the frame is straight and well aligned. 

The package did not contain my headset, extra rear derailleur and seatpost clamp. I sent Jack an email a day ago I'm still yet to get a response. usually he responds within half a day. Hopefully he'll respond soon, I'll keep you posted.


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## Porter666

Been lurking on these threads for a while and just bought a FM028 ISP frame from carbonzone on ebay. Frame came four days later, it was a bit rough around the edges but good for the price.
Want to try and build this bike up as light as I can(afford). Just wondering has anyone changed the seat mast stubby? Was going to swap it for a Tune cappy 34.9 but when I measured the seat mast the diameter was 36mm. Seems an odd size, anyway how much wiggle room would there be with the Tune? Could I make it fit or should I go for the larger size (38.2).


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## timed

my fm028 has a 37mm seat tube. i would go for the 38.2 cappy and a custom shim, or do as i've done, made a custom carbon stubby.


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## stubek

I test road a bike today. I am pretty sure it was the FM018 although the down tube might have had a bit more of a bend to it. It was hard to tell.
The bike was non-ISP had full Token Accura components, an easton aerobar, and Edge 58 and 88mm wheels.
Once I got some miles on it and got comfortable, it was FAST. I was shocked at how stiff and fast the bike was. It felt stiffer than a Fuji D6 which is impressive. I think the D6 was slightly easier to steer than this one. This bike was so stiff, that to steer, you really just slide your shoulders side to side rather than move the handle bars.

Anyways, quite a nice bike and supper stiff. It is a little unstable at low speeds and a little hard to sprint standing up, but slightly wider base bars and more time on the bike would help that.


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## Porter666

timed said:


> my fm028 has a 37mm seat tube. i would go for the 38.2 cappy and a custom shim, or do as i've done, made a custom carbon stubby.


 Thanks timed, can't get the 38.2 cappy for 4 to 6 weeks. How did you make your own? Might give it a go if its not to difficult.


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## yurl

Question for the guys who have an FM015. what headset do you have and which ones are compatible with the frame?


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## Ohm

Taiwanese made "Velocite Magnus" frame is USD499 including shipping from Yongs shop. Price has gone up from ca 480 in the last days and he has removed the "Flux" frame (mtb) from the webshop. I have not asked about if he still can get the "Flux". Seatposts are also very Velocity-like. He had some other frames as well that he has removed.


























------------------------------------------------------------------------
Mail answers were quick and the first time I asked about the lighter frame version that he was mentioning in the ebay auction.

Hi,friend. Thanks for you asking. We have the superlight version design. It is lighter than this list shows. But we have not get it in store. If you want, it will take about 30 days to make for you. And it will be expensive.
Best regards

Yong
CyclingYONG & CustomYONG
web site:www.cyclingyong.com
------------------------------------------------------------------------
I asked about the price.

hi,friend,
if the super light version,it will more expensive than 160$. no much.but also not cheap.haha

Yong
CyclingYONG & CustomYONG
web site:www.cyclingyong.com
------------------------------------------------------------------------
[email protected]
https://www.cyclingyong.com/category.php?id=44
https://cgi.ebay.com/R1-Carbon-Fibe...50691895466?pt=Road_Bikes&hash=item3a5e66c0aa
same person?
https://cgi.ebay.com/Road-Bike-full...30456226773?pt=Road_Bikes&hash=item4cf0b9dbd5

edit; found the old Flux auction where he also mentions the lighter version. I didn't find the old road frame auction with Yong mentioning the lighter version. From the pictures he had on his shop the lighter version looked like having the carbon BB30 bottom bracket (as original Velocite) - not the alu one. I have not asked him about the bottom bracket.
https://cgi.ebay.co.uk/FULL-CARBON-...2135455?pt=Mountain_Bikes&hash=item3a5e6a6a1f


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## zender

Ohm said:


> Hi,friend. Thanks for you asking. We have the superlight version design. It is lighter than this list shows. But we have not get it in store. If you want, it will take about 30 days to make for you. And it will be expensive.
> Best regards
> 
> Yong
> CyclingYONG & CustomYONG
> web site:www.cyclingyong.com
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------


My favorite line from his site (for the $720 "Prince" frame)


> Every Frame has the LIFE INSURANCE. Make your sagacity choose!!!


I nearly did spit my coke at the monitor when I read that one. Pure Chinglish awesomeness. I wonder if that's term or whole-life insurance?


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## ultraman6970

Why this guys seels it so expensive? u can get it somewhere else for way less than that. U havent seen the paint jobs a guy in spain is coming with, are better than these ones.

ps: now i get it, free shipping?


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## Ohm

Yong is the only one I know of that sells a "Velocite Magnus" frame like these. Stradelli also does but they cost USD900.


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## stubek

Seems like there are four companies on here people buy from, so I thought I would just quickly list the contact at each company, feel free to update or even start a thread just for this.

Dengfu – Mina, Tony
Hongfu - Jenny
Miracle Trading - Jack
Cycling Yong - Yong


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## tinribz

Hey everyone, here's some pics of my 58cm FM028 from carbonzone;




























Bout $600 usd all in inc postage to UK, headset and bonus seat clamp. All good apart from rear wheel seems a little bit misaligned, could be dishing.


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## MisterC

You gotta swap those pedals. I know how heavy them things are.


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## Mount Dora Cycles

I ordered a FM-R830SL from Wenzhou Sunday Trade Co. 
(https://bicycleparts.en.alibaba.com..._Fiber_Road_Bicycle_frame_set_FM_R830SL_.html)

Ordered frame, fork, headset, seat clamp and seat post. I ordered to check quality and ride of frame. The geometries of the 001, 015 and 028 just don't make sense, that's why I ordered the 830sl. Frame advertised was 850g my size 55 (57.5 tt fits like 58cm) came in at 960g. Only took 3 days shipping to Florida. No problems building bike. Communication has been great. I'm going to order some more and sell in my shop if this bike gets interest. Total riding weight is 17lbs 8 oz. with pedals, cages, pump ect... ride impressions coming up.


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## ultraman6970

Do you have the geometry chart?? why u say it does not make sense?


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## cdhbrad

Nice build. If you are interested in taking it on a little shake down ride with some other RBR folks from FL, check out the thread in The Lounge for a ride on Oct. 3. Ride starts not too far from Mt. Dora.


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## ultraman6970

Anybody can post the geometry tables for some models in a sticky or maybe in a new thread so we dont have to be looking in the web and stuff?

Thanks


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## FTR

Here is the geometry for the 028.
What does not make sense?
Makes absolutely perfect sense to me.


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## stubek

Well, I guess I am not going to be buying a TT frame after all. I finally got my LBS to give me a screaming deal on a Scott Plasma. Its the original Ultegra, but it has a Zipp Vuka aerobar. And I was looking forward to custom painting and building a TT bike.


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## BernyMac

Did anybody buy that Pinarello replica from Yong?


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## tinribz

> You gotta swap those pedals. I know how heavy them things are.


 I did tonight, was waiting for some new shoes compatable with Time cleats to arrive. Just used what I had lying around for a test ride.

There is nothing unusual about those angles, I picked the 028 cos it is similier in stack and reach to Specialized. can't get more usual than that.


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## FTR

tinribz said:


> I did tonight, was waiting for some new shoes compatable with Time cleats to arrive. Just used what I had lying around for a test ride.
> 
> There is nothing unusual about those angles, I picked the 028 cos it is similier in stack and reach to Specialized. can't get more usual than that.


Tinribz
How tall are you and what is your inseam.
I am stuck between the 58cm and the 60cm.
My Moots has a 58cm ETT, I run a 110mm stem but think I could run a 100mm and I use a Moots layback seatpost.
The 58cm comes with a 57.3cm ETT.
The 60cm comes with a 58.6cm ETT.

I am 6'2.5" tall with a 34.5" cycling inseam.


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## tinribz

Hi,

I'm 6ft, my inside leg (stocking feet, book on wall to floor) is 33" 

I generally find 56cm's feel a lttle small and 58's a little big. My last frame felt small so I orderd a 58, mainly because I wanted a bit of height to help with some neck pain.

TBO it does feel a bit stretched out for me even with a fairly short stem, even though on paper 57.3 is not that long? But this is the first time I've gotten away with flipping a stem (-8). Not been on a proper ride yet either.


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## FTR

tinribz said:


> Hi,
> 
> I'm 6ft, my inside leg (stocking feet, book on wall to floor) is 33"
> 
> I generally find 56cm's feel a lttle small and 58's a little big. My last frame felt small so I orderd a 58, mainly because I wanted a bit of height to help with some neck pain.
> 
> TBO it does feel a bit stretched out for me even with a fairly short stem, even though on paper 57.3 is not that long? But this is the first time I've gotten away with flipping a stem (-8). Not been on a proper ride yet either.



Thanks for that.
Sounds like the 60cm will be closer to what I need.


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## yurl

got a response from Jack (Miracle Trade), he'll arrange for the missing parts to be sent.


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## GardenDwarf

Hello everybody,

Thank you for your post. Since 3 weeks, I read your post about Chinese carbon bike and you give me many good informations.

In a few weeks, I would like to buy my first frame since 1988!!!

I would like to know if the ISP frame can have a failure problem. My brother say me that could be a problem with the ISP. 

Sorry for my english, I'm just a french man from Montreal


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## GardenDwarf

*ISP Frame problem??*

Hello everybody,

Thank you for your post. Since 3 weeks, I read your post about Chinese carbon bike and you give me many good informations.

In a few weeks, I would like to buy my first frame since 1988!!!

I would like to know if the ISP frame can have a failure problem. My brother say me that could be a problem with the ISP. 

Sorry for my english, I'm just a french man from Montreal


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## rruff

FTR said:


> Tinribz
> How tall are you and what is your inseam.
> I am stuck between the 58cm and the 60cm.
> My Moots has a 58cm ETT, I run a 110mm stem but think I could run a 100mm and I use a Moots layback seatpost.
> The 58cm comes with a 57.3cm ETT.
> The 60cm comes with a 58.6cm ETT.
> 
> I am 6'2.5" tall with a 34.5" cycling inseam.


Obviously the TT length is not an issue here. How about the head tube length? Seat angle? Wheelbase?

There is no substitute... figure out the X-Y position of your saddle and bars relative to the bottom bracket, and figure out how to replicate this on the new frame. Then you will know. Until then you will just be guessing.


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## ultraman6970

ISP doesn't look like a problem, the main issue with ISP is if you cut the mast too short because once is cut, you have almost no play to make it longer for example.


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## FTR

rruff said:


> Obviously the TT length is not an issue here. How about the head tube length? Seat angle? Wheelbase?
> 
> There is no substitute... figure out the X-Y position of your saddle and bars relative to the bottom bracket, and figure out how to replicate this on the new frame. Then you will know. Until then you will just be guessing.


Sorry rruff, not trying to be smart here, I simply do not understand what you are saying.
I have always sized my bikes by ETT.
Regardless of angles etc the ETT will always be what it is.
I am talking ETT and not actual TT which is a completely different and nonsensical thing to consider when measuring a bike IMO.

Can you explain what additional benefit I get from your method.
Many thanks in advance.


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## rruff

The important points in bike fit are the position of the saddle and bars relative to the BB. If you like the way your current bike fits then you want to replicate these points. The ETT does not really tell you anything, because if the seat angle and/or headtube length are different then the "reach" (distance from saddle to bars) will be different even if the ETT is the same. 

The most important variable on a frame is usually the headtube height. Usually if you get that about right you can adjust the saddle and stem to get everything in the right place. If you are an outlier (short legs, long torso, etc) then you will have a more difficult time and must be very careful about getting the right size. 

I'm 6' and have normal proportions, and like a lot of drop. I got a FM028 and use a 130mm stem and it's perfect. If you don't like a lot of drop you can go with a bigger frame and shorter stem and it will be fine.


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## FTR

OK. Been and done some measuring.
My setup on the Moots is 79.5cm from centre of BB to top of saddle and 58cm from the front of the saddle to the centre of my bars (where they go through the clamp). This feels reasonable comfortable to me.

I pushed all the figures through this calculator and it would seem that the 58cm 028 is actually going to feel longer than my Moots despite having a shorter ETT??

Moots:
HA - 74deg
STA - 73deg
BB drop - 70mm
Front Axle to Crown - 372mm
HT length - 176mm
ETT - 580mm


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## rruff

That looks like a good calculator. Check your axle-crown figure. Also note the longer head tube on the FM028... that will effect the height of your bars, so consider if that is something you can work with. For instance, if you have spacers under the stem now, then it would not be a problem.


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## rruff

Mount Dora Cycles said:


> I ordered a FM-R830SL from Wenzhou Sunday Trade Co.[/IMG]


Nice... price?


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## FTR

rruff said:


> That looks like a good calculator. Check your axle-crown figure. Also note the longer head tube on the FM028... that will effect the height of your bars, so consider if that is something you can work with. For instance, if you have spacers under the stem now, then it would not be a problem.


Yeah, not sure I am measuring this one right.
I have measured from the top of the fork (where it meets with the lower headset race) down to the threaded section of my skewer. Seems strange that this is 10mm longer than all of the Chinese figures.


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## FTR

Oops, typo on the axle - crown.
Have updated the figures with what is on their website.
Looks like the 60cm will be about the same reach but with 30mm increase to stack height.
The 58cm will have an 10mm shorter reach and an 11mm higher stack height.

Looks like the 58cm might be better??


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## athletic91

Has anyone bought the integrated bars?


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## Mount Dora Cycles

First short ride on the bike this morning and it feels great. Accelerates hard as you'd expect with the short chain stays, the compact geometry has me in a nice aggressive riding position that let me bomb down hills. Tapered headtube gave great handling. I'm sold on this thing. Lighter than my Scott CR1 and handles a lot better. My new race bike for next year.

Those asking about the geometry not making sense, I meant didn't make sense for the way I ride. Those other frames look great for long comfortable rides, not very aggressive though. Sorry for the confusion.



rruff said:


> Nice... price?


Can't say how much I got it for but they sell the frame/fork/headset for $824 shipped on their aliexpress page. That's a steal compared to what some manufactures sell the same frame for. Anyways, I recommend this frame if anyone is looking.
http://www.aliexpress.com/product-g...e-and-fork-FM-R830SL-FK-R830-wholesalers.html


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## stubek

Mount Dora Cycles said:


> Lighter than my Scott CR1 and handles a lot better. My new race bike for next year.



Damn, I ride a CR1 Pro with full Dura Ace and I am at 15.4 pounds with my climbing wheels on, but I have never liked the CR1 for descending. Now I am going to have to look into this.


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## rruff

Mount Dora Cycles said:


> Those asking about the geometry not making sense, I meant didn't make sense for the way I ride. Those other frames look great for long comfortable rides, not very aggressive though. Sorry for the confusion.


Actually, we are still confused because we don't know what the geometry is. If you compare it to a FM028 or FM015 with the about the same headtube length, then what makes it more aggressive?

I like the looks of this frame and the light weight, except for the small downtube... and I'm skeptical of it's torsional stiffness.


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## Mount Dora Cycles

Headtube length is only part of a frame's geometry. A short TT and long headtube gives an upright comfort riding position. A short headtube does put your stack height low but the rest of you is still up high. The compact geometry of this bike keeps the bike's mass low and makes handling a dream. Helps keep weight down as well.

The downtube is not small. It is not a round shape so photo makes it look small.


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## rruff

Just give us the numbers please, and let us figure it out for ourselves.


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## RiderE

*Im digging it*

minus a few changes im going to make this is mine and couldnt be happier with it,.... although i was really skeptical about it im still nervous kind of but only time will tell
<a href="https://picasaweb.google.com/lh/photo/fk5oPhyCk629DxGNw5srSraeCCJA7vaWqfQNThdyJxg?feat=embedwebsite"><img src="https://lh3.ggpht.com/_9_r7OhosLzw/TJKBXM6AoPI/AAAAAAAADkA/-qxvhvV45NE/s144/DSC_6076.JPG" /></a>
click on pic


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## rruff

*Geometry: FM028 vs FM830*

Found some numbers on the 830 here: http://www.xpa-cycling.com/products_data.php?htm=15.html&key=1

Values for the FM028 are on the cheapcarbonframes site. 

FM028 (56), FM830 (55)

HT 170, 175
ETT 560, 575
SA 73.3, 73
HA 73.5, 73.5
WB 985, 995
Stack 587, 593
Reach 384, 394

So the FM830 is a "bigger" frame both in reach (10mm) and stack (6mm). The steering geometry is the same. If anything the FM028 would be the more "aggressive" frame of these two due to the shorter head tube, toptube, and wheelbase. The shorter reach is only an issue if a 130mm stem is not adequate.

So let's compare to the next bigger FM028 (58):

HT 190, 175
ETT 573, 575
SA 73, 73
HA 73.8, 73.5
WB 992, 995
Stack 607, 593
Reach 387, 394

In this case the FM028 is taller (14mm) while having a shorter reach (7mm). You could call that comparatively "relaxed" and upright... but if you have 14+mm of spacers under the stem of your FM830, then it is just as relaxed and upright. And the FM028 has a slightly steeper head angle and shorter wheelbase. 

So far I haven't discovered any substantial differences in the geometries of any of these frames. They are all quite basic, normal and neutral... very middle of the road. An "aggressive" geometry would one that combines a short stack and long reach with a steep head angle, and none of them have this. Neither do any of them have a particularly tall stack and short reach for their size.


----------



## equinoxx

Following up on one of my previous posts, Mina from Dengfu sent me a replacement plastic cable guide (the one underneath the BB) since I couldn't find one locally. 100% satisfied with my transaction with Dengfu.

Still waiting on gruppo to arrive so I can finish the build and get riding!


----------



## HeluvaSkier

For those of you buying from DengFu and Greatkeen - are you paying via PayPal?


----------



## FTR

Pedalforce RS2 is what Chinese frame??
I have been drooling over mjdwyer23's for a while now.


----------



## Mount Dora Cycles

rruff, don't know what your attitude is all about. I said the geometry is better for me. It is. I said the frame is more aggressive, it is. You proved it yourself in the same frame comparisons. The 55cm 830sl is compared to a regular 58cm 001, 028..., not a 56. Jesus christ, put your penis away now, no one cares if you can piss further. You are the only one caring. I gave my input on where I got the frame and how much I like the frame, I'm done with this thread. On to more important things


----------



## WheresWaldo

rruff said:


> Found some numbers on the 830 here: http://www.xpa-cycling.com/products_data.php?htm=15.html&key=1
> 
> Values for the FM028 are on the cheapcarbonframes site.
> 
> FM028 (56), FM830 (55)
> 
> HT 170, 175
> ETT 560, 575
> SA 73.3, 73
> HA 73.5, 73.5
> WB 985, 995
> Stack 587, 593
> Reach 384, 394
> 
> So the FM830 is a "bigger" frame both in reach (10mm) and stack (6mm). The steering geometry is the same. If anything the FM028 would be the more "aggressive" frame of these two due to the shorter head tube, toptube, and wheelbase. The shorter reach is only an issue if a 130mm stem is not adequate.
> 
> So let's compare to the next bigger FM028 (58):
> 
> HT 190, 175
> ETT 573, 575
> SA 73, 73
> HA 73.8, 73.5
> WB 992, 995
> Stack 607, 593
> Reach 387, 394
> 
> In this case the FM028 is taller (14mm) while having a shorter reach (7mm). You could call that comparatively "relaxed" and upright... but if you have 14+mm of spacers under the stem of your FM830, then it is just as relaxed and upright. And the FM028 has a slightly steeper head angle and shorter wheelbase.
> 
> So far I haven't discovered any substantial differences in the geometries of any of these frames. They are all quite basic, normal and neutral... very middle of the road. An "aggressive" geometry would one that combines a short stack and long reach with a steep head angle, and none of them have this. Neither do any of them have a particularly tall stack and short reach for their size.


rruff, quit confusing people with facts. If MDC wants to believe there is a major difference in these frame geometries, let him.

BTW, it's good to see someone putting the STACK and REACH methods to good use.


----------



## kelso012

I just got the fm001 frame with fk002 fork bought it from someone who had two and was selling one. Been thinking about one for Awhile couldn't pass the deal up. I put all the parts on but took it to the shop to get adjusted I'm not good at that. Its a 54cm frame seemed a little big compared to my 54cm 2004 team pro fuji. Interested to take it for a ride should be Monday.


----------



## rruff

Mount Dora Cycles said:


> Jesus christ, put your penis away now, no one cares if you can piss further. You are the only one caring. I gave my input on where I got the frame and how much I like the frame, I'm done with this thread. On to more important things


Wow... thank you for moving on to more important things...


----------



## ClarkinHawaii

equinoxx said:


> Following up on one of my previous posts, Mina from Dengfu sent me a replacement plastic cable guide (the one underneath the BB) since I couldn't find one locally. 100% satisfied with my transaction with Dengfu.
> 
> Still waiting on gruppo to arrive so I can finish the build and get riding!


If you can, please post a pic of the underside of the bb30 with this cable guide attached. Thanks


----------



## Ohm

Im with rruff on this one. You have to be able to discuss or at least be able to accept that arguments that you learn from is the reason why people go here - or at least one of the major reasons. Rruff did have a few arguments and if somebody don't feel to say something other than "that works for me" and can't handle the arguments against their case then it's their problem. Nevertheless I did find this line unnecessary as it didn't add something to the discussion: 
"Just give us the numbers please, and let us figure it out for ourselves."


----------



## rruff

He kept making claims about the geometry, but did not supply the numbers... so I just wanted to know what they were. It wasn't that hard to find them, though. 

People seem to get obsessive about components of geometry and fit that really don't matter. Unless you are bumping up against a limit... like you want a very high or low bar relative to the saddle, or just have unusual body proportions... then there are usually two or three frame sizes that will work fine. Just adjust your saddle and pick the stem length and angle that puts the bars in the right place. The difference between one frame design and another is even less, unless the steering geometry is different... and that isn't a fit but rather a handling issue.


----------



## karlo

*Custom cut decals*

Just wanted to share that I found some guy from Brasil that does some nice looking decals and also custom ones. I went back and forth with him for a couple of hours and all I gave him was my design on the Downtube and the logo on the headtube (the one that looks like a molecule) and let him do what he does and he sent me this, looks really good to me so I went ahead and ordered them and will see how they turn out in person. I will post back when they arrive to update on quality, etc.

I made the logo: *KGDC6* = My Family Initials (*K*arlo-*G*aby-*D*errick-*C*ristian) the 6 just gives the *C* the Carbon element number

email: [email protected]

http://designstickers.blogspot.com/

Cost: Full set with cut vinyl and high quality printing.
Value $35.00 with *Free Shipping*. It can be less if it's not custom like these I think he starts at $25 and yes he takes Paypal

Tell him Karlo sent you


----------



## config

That is so nice! It appears this is the way to go - custom. Sweet!



karlo said:


> Just wanted to share that I found some guy from Brasil that does some nice looking decals and also custom ones. I went back and forth with him for a couple of hours and all I gave him was my design on the Downtube and the logo on the headtube (the one that looks like a molecule) and let him do what he does and he sent me this, looks really good to me so I went ahead and ordered them and will see how they turn out in person. I will post back when they arrive to update on quality, etc.
> 
> I made the logo: *KGDC6* = My Family Initials (*K*arlo-*G*aby-*D*errick-*C*ristian) the 6 just gives the *C* the Carbon element number
> 
> email: [email protected]
> 
> http://designstickers.blogspot.com/
> 
> Cost: Full set with cut vinyl and high quality printing.
> Value $35.00 with *Free Shipping*. It can be less if it's not custom like these I think he starts at $25 and yes he takes Paypal
> 
> Tell him Karlo sent you


----------



## nickl75

rruff said:


> Found some numbers on the 830 here: http://www.xpa-cycling.com/products_data.php?htm=15.html&key=1
> 
> Values for the FM028 are on the cheapcarbonframes site.
> 
> FM028 (56), FM830 (55)
> 
> HT 170, 175
> ETT 560, 575
> SA 73.3, 73
> HA 73.5, 73.5
> WB 985, 995
> Stack 587, 593
> Reach 384, 394
> 
> So the FM830 is a "bigger" frame both in reach (10mm) and stack (6mm). The steering geometry is the same. If anything the FM028 would be the more "aggressive" frame of these two due to the shorter head tube, toptube, and wheelbase. The shorter reach is only an issue if a 130mm stem is not adequate.
> 
> So let's compare to the next bigger FM028 (58):
> 
> HT 190, 175
> ETT 573, 575
> SA 73, 73
> HA 73.8, 73.5
> WB 992, 995
> Stack 607, 593
> Reach 387, 394
> 
> In this case the FM028 is taller (14mm) while having a shorter reach (7mm). You could call that comparatively "relaxed" and upright... but if you have 14+mm of spacers under the stem of your FM830, then it is just as relaxed and upright. And the FM028 has a slightly steeper head angle and shorter wheelbase.
> 
> So far I haven't discovered any substantial differences in the geometries of any of these frames. They are all quite basic, normal and neutral... very middle of the road. An "aggressive" geometry would one that combines a short stack and long reach with a steep head angle, and none of them have this. Neither do any of them have a particularly tall stack and short reach for their size.


That's my impression too. When I wrote the calculator I ran quite a lot of bikes though it to make sure I didn't have anything too far out. You get more variation going between Specialized Tarmac vs Roubaix than between most of these frames (the ones I checked anyway).

Glad you found the calculator useful


----------



## cww180

Nice, I'll have to keep that in mind when I get my Kuota knock off!


----------



## Rob81

a new kid in the block?
http://miracletrade.en.alibaba.com/product/328285293-210010870/carbon_frame.html
Any experience with it yet?

ps my chinese gallery (I must update it with new 50mm tubular carbon wheels from Yishun)
http://picasaweb.google.com/massarob/BicicletteMaggio2010?feat=directlink


----------



## 5thdisciple

Guys having major issue with my frame, there is a substantial gap between headset and headtube. LBS cant fix the problem, does anyone have any suggestions or come across something similar? perhaps need to change headset?


----------



## Pandamantron

karlo said:


> Just wanted to share that I found some guy from Brasil that does some nice looking decals and also custom ones. I went back and forth with him for a couple of hours and all I gave him was my design on the Downtube and the logo on the headtube (the one that looks like a molecule) and let him do what he does and he sent me this, looks really good to me so I went ahead and ordered them and will see how they turn out in person. I will post back when they arrive to update on quality, etc.
> 
> I made the logo: *KGDC6* = My Family Initials (*K*arlo-*G*aby-*D*errick-*C*ristian) the 6 just gives the *C* the Carbon element number
> 
> email: [email protected]
> 
> http://designstickers.blogspot.com/
> 
> Cost: Full set with cut vinyl and high quality printing.
> Value $35.00 with *Free Shipping*. It can be less if it's not custom like these I think he starts at $25 and yes he takes Paypal
> 
> Tell him Karlo sent you


Those logos look fantastic! Please let us know how the final product turns out, it'd be great to see photos of the decals on the bike. Plus, it'd be great to learn how durable they are.


----------



## Pandamantron

karlo said:


> Just wanted to share that I found some guy from Brasil that does some nice looking decals and also custom ones. I went back and forth with him for a couple of hours and all I gave him was my design on the Downtube and the logo on the headtube (the one that looks like a molecule) and let him do what he does and he sent me this, looks really good to me so I went ahead and ordered them and will see how they turn out in person. I will post back when they arrive to update on quality, etc.
> 
> I made the logo: *KGDC6* = My Family Initials (*K*arlo-*G*aby-*D*errick-*C*ristian) the 6 just gives the *C* the Carbon element number
> 
> email: [email protected]
> 
> http://designstickers.blogspot.com/
> 
> Cost: Full set with cut vinyl and high quality printing.
> Value $35.00 with *Free Shipping*. It can be less if it's not custom like these I think he starts at $25 and yes he takes Paypal
> 
> Tell him Karlo sent you


Those logos look fantastic! Please let us know how the final product turns out, it'd be great to see photos of the decals on the bike. Plus, it'd be great to learn how durable they are.


----------



## stevesbike

5thdisciple said:


> Guys having major issue with my frame, there is a substantial gap between headset and headtube. LBS cant fix the problem, does anyone have any suggestions or come across something similar? perhaps need to change headset?


the supplied headsets are usually crap. Get a cane creek or similar. Did the LBS say the bearings were sitting in the head tube OK? Looks like it's sitting high from the pic. I also wouldn't run that many spacers under one of these forks...


----------



## 5thdisciple

The frame is the Ehongfu standard Fm 015 frame so not sure if the headset would be compatbile, can anyone comment?

https://cheapcarbonframes.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/07/HF-FM015-SPL-530.jpg


----------



## NiklasUK

5thdisciple said:


> Guys having major issue with my frame, there is a substantial gap between headset and headtube. LBS cant fix the problem, does anyone have any suggestions or come across something similar? perhaps need to change headset?


Had the same issue there isn't enough clearance on the compression ring/steerer/top bearing.
Crown and 1-1/2' bearing where fine. Corrected with a cane creek IS 3I campy short in my case (FM015).


----------



## 5thdisciple

thanks niklas, do i then need to purchase the following...http://www.wiggle.co.uk/p/cycle/7/Cane_Creek_IS_3_Integrated_Aheadset/5360044653/

and what's the difference between the campy and normal?


----------



## NiklasUK

My Review on transaction (FM015 + bits) with 

Jenny Hong Fu - http://www.e-hongfu-bikes.com/

Skype :jennyliu80888
MSN : [email protected]
PayPal : [email protected]

Came within a week.
Everything was as advertised.
Contact with Jenny was flawless, he/she couldn't help enough.
Frame is excellent - good finish and fit (for me).

I ordered the following:



Code:


410 USD(include FM015+FK007)
15  USD(headset)
36  USD(SP003)
25  USD(alloy+carbon stem 100mm)
390 USD(50mm tubular front and rear complete wheelset)
25  USD(2pcs FD008 stock)
60  USD(HB003,400mm)

Only slight niggles were:
Headset is crap (not enough clearance on compression ring).
Wheel hubs aren't great and had the odd scratch on as they had pierced the shipping container and packaging.
Supports for the barrel adjusters on the down tube where a little close to the headstock.
Cable guide for the front dérailleur is a bit poo.


----------



## NiklasUK

5thdisciple said:


> thanks niklas, do i then need to purchase the following...http://www.wiggle.co.uk/p/cycle/7/Cane_Creek_IS_3_Integrated_Aheadset/5360044653/
> 
> and what's the difference between the campy and normal?


Inside and outside dimensions of the bearings - see the description on the wiggle link you pasted. Hope that helps.


----------



## 5thdisciple

ok thanks, i'll be ordering the exact same headset as you then...does it have to be pressed by LBS like the chinese supplied headset or can I attach it myself?

Other than the headset gap am very happy with jennys service also.

Attached pic of my bike


----------



## steinbach

NiklasUK said:


> Supports for the barrel adjusters on the down tube where a little close to the headstock.
> Cable guide for the front dérailleur is a bit poo.


I have the same problem with the barrel adjusters with hong fu 015. Does anybody has an idea how i can solve this prob? The cablerouting is not perfekt in the steerer area so the shifting is not that smooth it should be.
Thanks!


----------



## 5thdisciple

Niklas, the LBS just called me and said they fixed the problem by removing two of the washers thus removing the gap. So if anyone else has the same problem this is a reasonable solution. Hopefully theres no downside to removing washers.


----------



## stevesbike

5thdisciple said:


> Niklas, the LBS just called me and said they fixed the problem by removing two of the washers thus removing the gap. So if anyone else has the same problem this is a reasonable solution. Hopefully theres no downside to removing washers.


that's a lot of spacers to run. Park Tools suggests no more than 2cm if there's no manufacturer stated limit.


----------



## NiklasUK

5thdisciple said:


> Niklas, the LBS just called me and said they fixed the problem by removing two of the washers thus removing the gap. So if anyone else has the same problem this is a reasonable solution. Hopefully theres no downside to removing washers.


I'm sure your LBS is great but.. check. There was no way that the compression ring (red anodised bit in my case) would clear the bearing and properly seat against the steerer. This is meant to be tight but in my case the clearance just wasn't there.
Make sure the LBS hasn't just ditched the compression ring; they may well have had another compression ring in shop that fit OK. "Removing two washers" sounds a bit odd to me.
Anyway as long as the steerer is riding on both bearings and everything is snug and tight you'll be good to go.


----------



## ms6073

Oh no. That appears to be an issue with lip of the headset's compression ring being too tall. It is a simple problem to correct but requires a different compression ring - one that does not add much/any height to the stack height of the top bearing.



5thdisciple said:


> Guys having major issue with my frame, there is a substantial gap between headset and headtube.


----------



## vis8892

Received my FM015-ISP from DengFu today. Less than a week to ship from China to small town Alabama. I placed the order last Tuesday, tracking showed it left DengFu on the 15th and arrived here on the 20th.

Packaging condition was very good. No major crushes, cardboard was still stiff and square. Just a few minor dents in the box.

Frame is exactly as expected. Not perfect, but pretty good. No major flaws or mars. Just a couple of places in the clear coat with minor pock marks. As mentioned before, 3K weave is not perfect. There are a few twists and folds, but nothing you would see without searching for them.

Put a wheel in the frame and fork and alignment looks OK. I'll probably need to do some sanding on the drive side rear drop out as the carbon is not flush with the derailleur hanger.

Cable guide on the bottom bracket lines up pretty good with derailleur holw. It's in line and ends about 2mm from hole. 

So far I'm happy with the transaction. I plan on building this up over the winter and getting the frame painted.


----------



## tizon

*moved*

moved to different area


----------



## ColoRoadie

*Hmm...beyond my experience level*

Perhaps there is an easy fix that I'm not seeing._ (edit.... it was easy actually  )_

So, I'm building my new FM027 from Dengfu and there are little things here and there that were easy enough to solve but this one has me stumped. The front derailleur braze on (which is rivetted, with resin and clear coat holding it in place) is misaligned. it tilts forward at the top and a bit to the left. So, how does one fix this? I'm pretty sure I can get the derailleur running parallel with the rings with some selective grinding on the inside of the hanger opening so that the bolt is allowed to swing the back of the derailleur over...but how do you correct the tilt where the rear of the derailleur is up in the air like that. Does it matter? I haven't put a chain on it yet, but it seems like it would matter.


----------



## Bridgestone

ColoRoadie said:


> Perhaps there is an easy fix that I'm not seeing.
> 
> So, I'm building my new FM027 from Dengfu and there are little things here and there that were easy enough to solve but this one has me stumped. The front derailleur braze on (which is rivetted, with resin and clear coat holding it in place) is misaligned. it tilts forward at the top and a bit to the left. So, how does one fix this? I'm pretty sure I can get the derailleur running parallel with the rings with some selective grinding on the inside of the hanger opening so that the bolt is allowed to swing the back of the derailleur over...but how do you correct the tilt where the rear of the derailleur is up in the air like that. Does it matter? I haven't put a chain on it yet, but it seems like it would matter.


Send it back to china as the local fix will be as much as the frame. It will be interesting to see the position the shipper takes on this .


----------



## karlo

It might be easier to remove the Braze-On and install a Clamp-On derailleur or buy an adapter either way it's cheaper than shipping it back and less hassle in my opinion.

something like this could work:
http://store.icyclesusa.com/front-derailleur-braze-on-clamp-on-adapter-349mm-p779.aspx


----------



## ColoRoadie

Send it back to China? Wow, some people's first instinct is to throw the towel in and surrender the moment things aren't simple, eh? Early in life I was taught a saying 'Improvise and Overcome'. Taught is perhaps too light of a word considering how it was implanted into my personality (USMC) but none the less, I don't tend to surrender lightly....or at all really. Sometimes its a fault, other times its a gift.

So....after staring at it a while, which is usually how I figure something out, it occurred to me that a bit of customizing was the key. So, repeating to myself the age old wisdom that it is only a bicycle, I once again turned to the dremel. This time, I committed what could possibly be considered an unpardonable sin. I applied the dremel to a Campagnolo front derailleur. The part that attaches to the braze on is a half round shape that fits into the braze on. I took a millimeter off the bottom of that half round and blended it back to the top. This lowered the rear of the derailleur. I then shaved a bit off the outside edge of the braze on and the corresponding edge on the inside that was restricting the bolt from turning the derailleur's tail outward. 

The result of this 15 minutes of effort is...

















*
Never surrender. OohRah!*


----------



## FTR

Looks AOK to me although I remember I had the same issue with a SRAM derailleur on ann old Colnago Master Olympic frame.
I thought it was defective too but after undoing it and a bit of jiggling around I got it to sit square.
No dremelling or anything.
Weird.


----------



## config

What was running through my mind was what can easily be a Dremel tool ad.


----------



## equinoxx

ClarkinHawaii said:


> If you can, please post a pic of the underside of the bb30 with this cable guide attached. Thanks


Here you go! You can just make out the hole in the frame where the front derailleur cable goes through. It is in the upper right hand part just beyond the guide.


----------



## zender

Strong work. I can't imagine any downside to that -except if you ever want to turn that FD around on ebay. As you pointed out, it's just a bike. I had to come up with a few inventive solutions on the two Chinese frames I've bought so far. In a way, those little things make the bike yours.


----------



## ultraman6970

Good fix, i was thinking maybe in the dremel or shim the fd a little bit with some metal or something.


----------



## ultraman6970

5thdisciple said:


> thanks niklas, do i then need to purchase the following...http://www.wiggle.co.uk/p/cycle/7/Cane_Creek_IS_3_Integrated_Aheadset/5360044653/
> 
> and what's the difference between the campy and normal?



Normal u mean the crane creek? The main difference between the campagnolo and the cane creek is the angles that the bearing races have, if you are putting a campanolo headset in a cane creek race the headset bearings wont sit right, because the angle is different.

Have you look at the angle numbers in the bearings? campagnolo says 45x45 and cane creek usually says 45x36 or something like that. The other difference is that the bearing height is different also. There is a big chance the guys at china do not know that there are more than one standard with Integrated headsets and they just grab pieces from here and there and throw them into the box with the bike.

good luck


----------



## ultraman6970

karlo would you post pictures of the bike with the decals?

Just in case are vinyl decals or transfers?


----------



## karlo

ultraman6970 said:


> karlo would you post pictures of the bike with the decals?
> 
> Just in case are vinyl decals or transfers?


I will when they arrive, they were shipped out Monday and he said it takes average 10 days to arrive (that's where the free shipping comes in) so hopefully next week.


----------



## mrwirey

*Death from above...*



ColoRoadie said:


> This time, I committed what could possibly be considered an unpardonable sin. I applied the dremel to a Campagnolo front derailleur. [/COLOR][/I][/B]


You may have averted a full on death strike from the Campy Gods as you blasphemied an Athena rather than a Super Record front derailleur. I was going to suggest a shim, but I think your solution will work better over the long haul. Kudos to you for figuring it out. 
Very respectfully, Tim


----------



## SilentAssassin

ColoRoadie said:


> Send it back to China? Wow, some people's first instinct is to throw the towel in and surrender the moment opposition shows on the horizon, eh? Early in life I was taught a saying 'Improvise and Overcome'. Taught is perhaps too light of a word considering how it was implanted into my personality but none the less, I don't tend to surrender lightly....or at all really. Sometimes its a fault, other times its a gift.
> 
> So....after staring at it a while, which is usually how I figure something out, it occurred to me that a bit of customizing was the key. So, repeating to myself the age old wisdom that it is only a bicycle, I once again turned to the dremel. This time, I committed what could possibly be considered an unpardonable sin. I applied the dremel to a Campagnolo front derailleur. The part that attaches to the braze on is a half round shape that fits into the braze on. I took a millimeter off the bottom of that half round and blended it back to the top. This lowered the rear of the derailleur. I then shaved a bit off the outside edge of the braze on and the corresponding edge on the inside that was restricting the bolt from turning the derailleur's tail outward.
> 
> The result of this 15 minutes of effort is...
> 
> Never surrender. OohRah![/COLOR][/I][/B]


I wouldn't be happy with a frame where I had to modify the FD. Since you are/were a Marine, I'm surprised someone with such high standards and attention to detail could live with that defect. Nice correction, and I guess it makes no difference if you will have that frame and drivetrain setup for a long time.


----------



## BernyMac

SilentAssassin said:


> I wouldn't be happy with a frame where I had to modify the FD. Since you *are* a Marine, I'm surprised someone with such high standards and attention to detail could live with that defect. Nice correction, and I guess it makes no difference if you will have that frame and drivetrain setup for a long time.


FIFY...no such thing as a past tense Marine.

Semper Fi...


----------



## jmarteijn

Anybody have some idea what Brand is using the same MTB Carbon frame as below?










Never seen this type of frame before, that why i ask this.

Thkx in Advance


----------



## timed

got my replacement frame since the old one was crushed in the shipping (se the previous thread). This one had no damages, but it had some cosmetic errors in the carbon layups, but i can live with that. Now it's just time to see if I would try to repair the old one or not.

[edit]
i bought my FM028-isp from carbonzone @ ebay and i can't give him/her/them anything else then A+, i can live with the small errors in the cosmetics due to the price and the service... I assume he is just a reseller, not a manufacture.


----------



## karlo

timed said:


> got my replacement frame since the old one was crushed in the shipping (se the previous thread). This one had no damages, but it had some cosmetic errors in the carbon layups, but i can live with that. Now it's just time to see if I would try to repair the old one or not.
> 
> [edit]
> i bought my FM028-isp from carbonzone @ ebay and i can't give him/her/them anything else then A+, i can live with the small errors in the cosmetics due to the price and the service... I assume he is just a reseller, not a manufacture.


:thumbsup: That's very good to hear


----------



## stevesbike

SilentAssassin said:


> I wouldn't be happy with a frame where I had to modify the FD. Since you are/were a Marine, I'm surprised someone with such high standards and attention to detail could live with that defect. Nice correction, and I guess it makes no difference if you will have that frame and drivetrain setup for a long time.


sram makes a slant adjustment washer that fits between the clamp and front derailleur that could also work. It's in their spare part catalog.


----------



## karlo

jmarteijn said:


> Anybody have some idea what Brand is using the same MTB Carbon frame as below?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Never seen this type of frame before, that why i ask this.
> 
> Thkx in Advance



These have it but they are only Free Member in Alibaba so you have to be extra careful and do your research first.

https://www.alibaba.com/product/tw1...arbon_Mountain_Bike_Frame_MTB_Bike_Frame.html


----------



## jmarteijn

karlo said:


> These have it but they are only Free Member in Alibaba so you have to be extra careful and do your research first.
> 
> http://www.alibaba.com/product/tw11...arbon_Mountain_Bike_Frame_MTB_Bike_Frame.html


Thkx.

I'm indeed doing some research.
Do you know which brand e.d. Trek, Merida, Focus, Giant... uses this frame?
i can't imagine they make this frame for only themselves.


----------



## tizon

After a couple months I finally got her all pieced together, and she sure is a major upgrade from my old ride.
OLD RIDE








The right tools for the job make a difference, you really cant install the crank without a torque wrench(i learned the hard way). Still am fine tuning the Rival ders. All said and done she weighs right at 18lbs. Its nice considering my other bike was 27lbs. Right now i have about 33 miles on her








NEW RIDE


----------



## ColoRoadie

SilentAssassin said:


> I wouldn't be happy with a frame where I had to modify the FD. Since you are/were a Marine, I'm surprised someone with such high standards and attention to detail could live with that defect. Nice correction, and I guess it makes no difference if you will have that frame and drivetrain setup for a long time.



I know. You've said numerous times that you would settle for nothing but perfection in any part you buy. In speaking to some of the shops around here who assemble the high end brands for customers, I think you would likely pass out if you realized how much of this is done...even with high end frames....though modifying a derailleur is probably over the top. As far as a Marine living with a defect...you clearly have not seen the equipment we are issued. The Army would throw most of our gear away. Improvise and Overcome....it's one of the many ways in which the Corps changed my life. Sure, I could have thrown my hands up and cried foul and started a whole fight over a $300 carbon frame not being perfect...or I could spend 15 minutes, fix the problem and move on. 

In the end, my level of expectation is somewhat lower than yours when it comes to manufactured parts, especially those made with resin. Don't get me wrong, I was somewhat put out for a little while there when I discovered the braze on was not perfectly aligned and I posted some pics in here asking for suggestions for a fix....but then I looked over at my 2002 litespeed and realized that it's front derailleur has never been off the bike (and its alignment is less perfect than I now have on the chinese frame)....so if I have to modify an FD a little to make it fit...it's not the end of the world. The modification turned out to be far easier than I expected it to be....and since a brand new Campy Athena 11 speed front derailleur is $39 on ebay...I didn't feel like I was risking much in the attempt. With that said, had it not been possible to work around the tilted braze on, I'm sure Tony at Dengfu would have made it right. If not...I've still got about 30 days left on my paypal protection....so either way I'm covered.


----------



## stubek

ColoRoadie I think you would likely pass out if you realized how much of this is done...even with high end frames....though modifying a derailleur is probably over the top. [/QUOTE said:


> I could not agree with you more. I had a Trek Equinox 9 back in 2005. Bought it new in the box. Had it delivered and built at my LBS. Every time I shifted the front derailleur, the thing would grind into the chain rings. Turns out, the entire hanger was sliding on the frame. Took the LBS almost a month to convince Trek to send a new frame. Trek kept telling them to use some Loctite on it!
> 
> From the LBS that I now go to and ride with frequently, they say about 10% of their bikes need some minor tweaking to dropouts, bolt/screw holes, bearing seats when they build the frames.


----------



## robpar

tizon said:


> After a couple months I finally got her all pieced together, and she sure is a major upgrade from my old ride.
> OLD RIDE
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The right tools for the job make a difference, you really cant install the crank without a torque wrench(i learned the hard way). Still am fine tuning the Rival ders. All said and done she weighs right at 18lbs. Its nice considering my other bike was 27lbs. Right now i have about 33 miles on her
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> NEW RIDE


That's the frame I have! but I have it with a 105 group...


----------



## adam_mac84

do any of these bikes come in 60cm+ sizes? i looked through a bunch on some of the links provided but did not see any


----------



## yurl

Rob81 said:


> a new kid in the block?
> http://miracletrade.en.alibaba.com/product/328285293-210010870/carbon_frame.html
> Any experience with it yet?


Yep, I ordered my frame from Miracle Trade. Dealt with Jack Chen.
Jack is good to deal with. He usually answers questions within half a day.
My order experience was both good and bad. 
My frame MC-015 (HongFu FM-015) and fork in matt clearcoat is excellent. finish is great, no blemishes, weave lines up well. 
I had a problem with missing parts, but Jack did fix this quickly by resending the parts. :thumbsup: 
On top of the frame I ordered a carbon seat post, handlebars, stem and bottle cages.
seat post and handlebars are of okay quality.
stem was faulty. on the clamp that attaches to the fork the thread and the bolt do not meet. Its also heavy looks ugly. so at $45USD :frown2: definitely NOT recommended. I know that it can be fixed by buying a longer bolt but its so ugly I'd rather get a different stem.
bottle cages were wobbly and finish not great but meh its a bottle cage, i can live with it.


----------



## dmabraham

Looking for some more feedback on the newer TT frane being sold, I think it is 018, sold by Carbon zone on ebay. Has anyone been riding one, have an opinion yet about it? Pictures of a completed bike with maybe the frame and bar setup ordered from deng-fu or carbon zone?

Currently have 500 miles on my fm028, all is good except for the teeniest bit of wobble in the headset due to ill fitting bearings. I think I am going to order a nicer job (got one with the bike) an pull it apart and replace.

D


----------



## stubek

dmabraham said:


> Looking for some more feedback on the newer TT frane being sold, I think it is 018, sold by Carbon zone on ebay. Has anyone been riding one, have an opinion yet about it? Pictures of a completed bike with maybe the frame and bar setup ordered from deng-fu or carbon zone?
> D


I think there is someone in the last few pages of the v2 of this thread who built and commented on one of them.

Also see my post, number 28 in this thread. I test rode an FM018 last week. 

This is the exact bike I rode http://sfbay.craigslist.org/pen/bik/1960942233.html


----------



## kristofpoppe

*Headset quality and self installing + frame conversion regular to TT*

Hi,

As reading through versions 1 2 and 3 of this topic, I've noticed that only few have already bought a TT frame. Most sites offer different sizes till size 56.
Since I'm 1m 85 tall and have a normal 58 cm framesize, is there a way to 'convert' my bike dimensions to TT-bike dimensions ?

Secondly it seems that the quality of the headsets delivered is not so good.
So when I would buy a TT-frame I would install a Ritchey WCS. How do you guys do this ?

Let it installed by your local bike shop ? Or DIY with the correct tools or large thread with nuts and washers as you can find on the net ?

Thanks !


----------



## stubek

kristofpoppe,
welcome to the forums.
To "convert" you want to look at the stack and reach first of a bike. Check here http://www.slowtwitch.com/stackreach.html
This website has some major brands stack and reach numbers. if you are not familiar with TT bikes, maybe go test a few major brands to see what size you fall into, then look up their geometries on the manufacture website

Once you do that, look at the different TT frames offered through eBay, Alibaba, etc (keep in mind the advice in these forums on where other people have bought from) and look at the stack and reach first, then the effective top tube, seat tube, and head tube to find a geometry that is closest to what you liked on your test rides.

Your overall goal is to know where your body contacts your road bike (seat, pedals, hands) in relation to each other and translate that to the TT bike. Now the big difference is if you are very flexible and looking for a aggressive position, you can go longer on reach and shorter on stack, but if you are not looking for aggressive, you can go longer on stack and shorter on reach. Both of those can be adjusted by buying a different size or brand frame, but if you get a frame that is pretty close, you can adjust quite a bit with stem angle, length, and maybe a spacer or two.


----------



## Ronin101

Here is my build LBS scale said 16.5 pounds. I think it is lighter. but either way I am happy!


----------



## stubek

Ronin101 said:


> Here is my build LBS scale said 16.5 pounds. I think it is lighter. but either way I am happy!


Take the brakes off, it will make you lighter and faster. Just kidding, bike looks great!


----------



## karlo

This is the first time I see this when receiving an item from China, has anyone received this from the USPS tracking service? Just wondering if it's going to be held in Customs for several days or weeks.

****************************************************
Class: Express Mail International®
Status: *Inbound Into Customs*

Your item is being processed by United States Customs. Information, if available, is updated periodically throughout the day. Please check again later.

Detailed Results:

- *Inbound Into Customs*
- Inbound International Arrival, September 22, 2010, 6:28 am, ISC SAN FRANCISCO (USPS)
- Foreign International Dispatch, September 20, 2010, 9:56 pm, SHENZHEN EMS, CHINA PEOPLES REP
- Foreign Acceptance, September 20, 2010, 6:15 pm
- Origin Post is Preparing Shipment
***************************************************


----------



## ClarkinHawaii

karlo said:


> This is the first time I see this when receiving an item from China, has anyone received this from the USPS tracking service? Just wondering if it's going to be held in Customs for several days or weeks.
> 
> ****************************************************
> Class: Express Mail International®
> Status: *Inbound Into Customs*
> 
> Your item is being processed by United States Customs. Information, if available, is updated periodically throughout the day. Please check again later.
> 
> Detailed Results:
> 
> - *Inbound Into Customs*
> - Inbound International Arrival, September 22, 2010, 6:28 am, ISC SAN FRANCISCO (USPS)
> - Foreign International Dispatch, September 20, 2010, 9:56 pm, SHENZHEN EMS, CHINA PEOPLES REP
> - Foreign Acceptance, September 20, 2010, 6:15 pm
> - Origin Post is Preparing Shipment
> ***************************************************



It's standard procedure--happens to all incoming parcels. Depends on how busy they are, but less than a day, I'm sure. What happens is that these HongFu, DengFu types prepare a written customs declaration which accompanies the parcel. They lie, and say either that the frame is a gift or that it has a VERY low value. If the Customs inspector believes the declaration, there is no import tax/duty/whatever. You should have it in a couple of days since it is coming Express Mail.


----------



## karlo

Thanks, I never had seen it when getting items from China, my wife buys lots of items from over there and heavy but never seen it before so thanks for the good news.


----------



## bcsride

*DNK frame recieved followup*

in post 1149 (chinese .. thread 2.0) I posted the details of my DNK purchase - that came without the headset. The headset arrived yesterday. After a brief 
me - I didn't get the headset
dnk - shipping says it is packed here...
me - nope not there
dnk - o.k. we'll ship you one
exchange, they shipped it. I have it. Photo attached. Looks like a decent headset, but perhaps heavy. 

Anyway, I guess I need to build this thing up. 

Overall, in terms of clarity and promptness of communication, etc. DNK / Linda Liu is all good. As discussed before, packing needs to improve and the seatmast topper has some issues previously discussed. I can't comment on ride yet. Yeah, I guess that matters.


----------



## zender

ClarkinHawaii said:


> It's standard procedure--happens to all incoming parcels. Depends on how busy they are, but less than a day, I'm sure. What happens is that these HongFu, DengFu types prepare a written customs declaration which accompanies the parcel. They lie, and say either that the frame is a gift or that it has a VERY low value. If the Customs inspector believes the declaration, there is no import tax/duty/whatever. You should have it in a couple of days since it is coming Express Mail.


Just curious, but at what value would customs send you a bill? Anyone know?


----------



## timed

different shipping companys handle it differently.

for example here in sweden fedex sends a bill afterwards, tnt sends a bill which has to be paid in advance before delivery.


----------



## karlo

*SWEET!! :thumbsup: * That was quick

*************************************************
Class: Express Mail International®
Status: Inbound Out of Customs

*Your item cleared United States Customs at 11:56 am on September 22, 2010.* Information, if available, is updated periodically throughout the day. Please check again later.

Detailed Results:
*
- Inbound Out of Customs, September 22, 2010, 11:56 am*
- Inbound Into Customs
- Inbound International Arrival, September 22, 2010, 6:28 am, ISC SAN FRANCISCO (USPS)
- Foreign International Dispatch, September 20, 2010, 9:56 pm, SHENZHEN EMS, CHINA PEOPLES REP
- Foreign Acceptance, September 20, 2010, 6:15 pm
- Origin Post is Preparing Shipment


----------



## stubek

karlo said:


> *SWEET!! :thumbsup: * That was quick


You're lucky. I imported 100 polo shirts for a conference into the UK. Had them made in India and shipped to the UK. UK charged me (as an American citizen and the shirts were shipped to my name at my hotel) 23% import tax on them and held them in customs for 5 days.
Then FedEx was super anal about collecting that money from me for the next couple months. Its part of why I do not buy from over seas, I always have the bad luck of getting raked across the coals in import duties or my items get lost and were only insured by the shipper for 10% of their real value.


----------



## ClarkinHawaii

zender said:


> Just curious, but at what value would customs send you a bill? Anyone know?




I have ordered several times from chainreactioncycles.com and PBK.com, both in the UK. Out of maybe 6 or 7 packages, one was stopped by customs. 

Although I believe that "cycling goods" are supposed to be duty-free (I read it on the Internet, so it has to be true!), this guy charged me "import duty/tax" which amounted to something like 3% of the declared value of the shipment.

Then they charge you another $5 for the privilege of being inspected. Then another $10 to the USPS for acting as collection agent.

When the package was delivered, I had to pay the postman about $20--he gave me a receipt with the amounts broken down as I have described. 

If you've got lots of time, you can protest the charge. Good luck. And if you win, they will only refund the actual tax, which was about $5 on a $200 order. The other $15 is fixed fees that will not be refunded.

Edit: It's not that you will automatically have to pay something if the declared value is above some certain amount--because most of my unmolested parcels have been a lot more than the $200 that got tagged--if they tag your package, you will pay about 3-4% of the declared value.
There is probably some small amount that is duty-free no matter what, sort of like when you walk into the US from Mexico--I forget what it is--something like $100 every 6 months . . . ???


----------



## GardenDwarf

Hello all, 
I was looking on alibaba for a frame and I saw a Campagnolo Chorus 2010 on www.kean-trading.cn (that redirect to Alibaba ). I've chat with the guy and he send me the price list.

I cant believe that price at 600$ shipping include!!!

Must I trust that??? I see many correct purchase on alibaba on this forum about to purchase a frame but what about groupset???

sorry about my poor english  
===========
Daniel


----------



## GardenDwarf

*Campagnolo Chorus on Alibaba*

Hello all, 
I was looking on alibaba for a frame and I saw a Campagnolo Chorus 2010 on www.kean-trading.cn (that redirect to Alibaba ). I've chat with the guy and he send me the price list.

I cant believe that price at 600$ shipping include!!!

Must I trust that??? I see many correct purchase on alibaba on this forum about to purchase a frame but what about groupset???

sorry about my poor english  
===========
Daniel


----------



## ClarkinHawaii

GardenDwarf said:


> Hello all,
> I was looking on alibaba for a frame and I saw a Campagnolo Chorus 2010 on www.kean-trading.cn (that redirect to Alibaba ). I've chat with the guy and he send me the price list.
> 
> I cant believe that price at 600$ shipping include!!!
> 
> Must I trust that??? I see many correct purchase on alibaba on this forum about to purchase a frame but what about groupset???
> 
> sorry about my poor english
> ===========
> Daniel


Who knows? Please PM me the price list and I will investigate further. Thanks


----------



## red elvis

those pictures are awesome. i also wanted to modify my bike to make it lighter. but my lbs suggested replacing the wheelset (mavic cxp22/formula hubs/sapim race spokes) instead of the frameset. my bike is about 20 lbs right now. (2010 giant defy 2)


----------



## stubek

GardenDwarf said:


> Hello all,
> I was looking on alibaba for a frame and I saw a Campagnolo Chorus 2010 on www.kean-trading.cn (that redirect to Alibaba ). I've chat with the guy and he send me the price list.
> 
> I cant believe that price at 600$ shipping include!!!
> 
> Must I trust that??? I see many correct purchase on alibaba on this forum about to purchase a frame but what about groupset???
> 
> sorry about my poor english
> ===========
> Daniel


My first guess would be no. They won't take PayPal. With that said, I did a little quick search and found no one complaining of them, but the kean name is used quite a bit on Alibaba by several unrelated people/companies.

as ClarkinHawaii said, PM details and let him dig a bit.


----------



## GardenDwarf

Hello Stubek,

I know they dont take paypal but I dont think that MiracleTrade and denfubike take paypal and some people has been "satisfied".

China is a big market and they can have good price. I think that they offer the possibility to contact directly the Wholesaler and we can't do that here.

The big question is:" Can I loose 600$ US if it's a swindle..." Can I take this risk


<style type="text/css">p { margin-bottom: 0.08in; }a:link { S</style>


----------



## config

GardenDwarf said:


> Hello Stubek,
> 
> I know they dont take paypal but I dont think that MiracleTrade and denfubike take paypal and some people has been "satisfied".
> 
> China is a big market and they can have good price. I think that they offer the possibility to contact directly the Wholesaler and we can't do that here.
> 
> The big question is:" Can I loose 600$ US if it's a swindle..." Can I take this risk
> 
> 
> <style type="text/css">p { margin-bottom: 0.08in; }a:link { S</style>


Those are questions, only you can answer. I personally don't see how they can sell it that cheap. I've been wrong several times and at times like these, I love to be wrong. But the reason I say that is I used to live about 40 miles from Vicenza, where the main facility (factory) of Campagnolo is located and even there you cannot purchase those components at that price. Unless they're making Campy parts in China now but that would be like blasphemy ;0


----------



## ClarkinHawaii

GardenDwarf said:


> Hello Stubek,
> 
> I know they dont take paypal but I dont think that MiracleTrade and denfubike take paypal and some people has been "satisfied".
> 
> China is a big market and they can have good price. I think that they offer the possibility to contact directly the Wholesaler and we can't do that here.
> 
> The big question is:" Can I loose 600$ US if it's a swindle..." Can I take this risk
> 
> 
> <style type="text/css">p { margin-bottom: 0.08in; }a:link { S</style>


Well, I just looked at the price list, and i can see why Daniel is excited. They have all the different groups--Shimano, Campy, Sram. The prices are INSANE. SRAM Red groupset $800.:crazy: 

On the face of it, I can't believe they're for real; but I'm going to play the game and be a customer, saying I'm interested in buying groupsets to build up my 10 Hongfu frames for the local market; but I have great fear of fraud and asking what kind of references/ evaluations of past customers they can provide for a gutless wimp like me.

Even if it is a scam, it will be interesting to see how they handle it.

If they're accomplished scammers they might be willing to prime the pump. I say I am looking to buy 100 groupsets, but want to check out one at first, just to make sure what I'm getting. They basically give me one, just to suck me in so I will send the money for the other 99 groupsets, whereupon they disappear.:eek6:


----------



## yurl

red elvis said:


> those pictures are awesome. i also wanted to modify my bike to make it lighter. but my lbs suggested replacing the wheelset (mavic cxp22/formula hubs/sapim race spokes) instead of the frameset. my bike is about 20 lbs right now. (2010 giant defy 2)


if you want to go carbon you can pick up a set of chinese carbon wheels for around $400USD. there's a thread in the wheels and tyres section.


----------



## karlo

GardenDwarf said:


> Hello all,
> I was looking on alibaba for a frame and I saw a Campagnolo Chorus 2010 on www.kean-trading.cn (that redirect to Alibaba ). I've chat with the guy and he send me the price list.
> 
> I cant believe that price at 600$ shipping include!!!
> 
> Must I trust that??? I see many correct purchase on alibaba on this forum about to purchase a frame but what about groupset???
> 
> sorry about my poor english
> ===========
> Daniel


I have to say they are fake and you can tell first of all by the different items they have for sale and don't get pulled in just because they have a 1 Year Gold Supplier, I talked to several of these to buy a D90 camera for $200....yeah right. Now if you see 2+ Gold Supplier then it's more reliable but still do your research.


----------



## ClarkinHawaii

OK, I send this message to KEAN Trading:

"Hi--

My friend Daniel XXXXXXX has shown me your price list and I am very impressed.

I have 10 carbon bicycle frames ordered and I need groupsets to build up the bikes for the local market (Hawaii, USA).

I am not professional bike shop; I am amateur, hobbyist. I am not experienced in ordering from company like you.

Can you provide reference, your customers who are happy with you. I am afraid of fraud. What can you do to convince me you are legitimate? Your prices almost too good to be true!

Thanks, Regards, Clark XXXXXX (Wahiawa, Hawaii, USA)


----------



## red elvis

yurl said:


> if you want to go carbon you can pick up a set of chinese carbon wheels for around $400USD. there's a thread in the wheels and tyres section.


i'll check them out. thanks.


----------



## ultraman6970

ClarkinHawaii i been looking those type of items for a while, if you go to alibaba and search for campagnolo or another high end frame brand you see for example bmc team bikes full campagnolo UT like for 1600 bucks, mickey mouse numbers, I sent an email to one of them asking for a bmc bike and they told me that it was the whole bike but now the issue is if its real. 

If i had to go to mainland china for work i would stop in the address these people have and buy the bike right there in the spot. Doubt it is real, the other thing that sucks is that alibaba does not say a crap about if the seller is real or not so who knows.

ClarkinHawaii have u tried to set up an account in alibaba like a seller and see what happens?  It would be pretty interesting if they let you do it w/o a danr confirmation


----------



## stubek

ultraman6970 said:


> ClarkinHawaii i been looking those type of items for a while, if you go to alibaba and search for campagnolo or another high end frame brand you see for example bmc team bikes full campagnolo UT like for 1600 bucks, mickey mouse numbers, I sent an email to one of them asking for a bmc bike and they told me that it was the whole bike but now the issue is if its real.


Most likely not real. One thing to look at is what BMC sold on the bike. I found many sellers selling Scott Plasma LTD bikes with full SRAM Red for $1,200. One of the many clues is that Scott never sold bikes with SRAM, just various levels of Shimano. I talked to several of the sellers any ways just to see what I could try to find and I was never comfortable with it.

Also, most of the sellers were Gold 1 year sellers, but that means nothing. I could sign up for an account today, get verified, and become a Gold 1 seller in under an hour.

Also, look at what else they are selling. Some of the people who claim to have high end bikes are selling tea and other little things and that is what they sell and get good reviews for, but then they offer out the bikes to draw people in and try to scam them with that. They can tell Alibaba they are a good seller because no one complained before.

Try to Google the seller's name and the word scam, you find some good stories of people receiving a box of pens instead of a new laptop and other such things.


----------



## ultraman6970

Just sent an email to one of them that was offering the Impec bike, if they do not answer the questions right it means it is a scam. The question was when there were able to ship it


----------



## LarsEjaas

timed said:


> different shipping companys handle it differently.
> 
> for example here in sweden fedex sends a bill afterwards, tnt sends a bill which has to be paid in advance before delivery.


Yeah - here in Denmark it is mostly the danish Postal service "Post Danmark" that handles the customs. Yesterday they have officially used a full month on my two frames (for comparison it took 2 days to ship from China). I have used way to much time to get the parts - BUMMER! :mad2: :mad2: :mad2: 
Jack from Miracle Trade has been awesome to deal with but Post Danmark is the worst experience I have EVER experienced - period! :incazzato:


----------



## Ohm

Here is another company that sells complete bicycles.
https://www.xuzhibike.com/products.asp

me through alibaba:
Hello, how much cost this bike ? What sizes do you have in stock?
best regards 
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Thanks for your inquiry, this is Jerry It is great to work with you. 
Due to the model: carbon008, the price is USD5150.00 assembly with Campagnolo Bora Two wheel sets and super record ut11s group sets. We can do the size as 48/51/54/57/59.5 . Sorry, now we have no stock in our warehouse.
I also would like to introduce our 2010 new model" fomas" road bike, as attached. the price is USD2690.00 only. 
For more products infomation, you can check at our website:www.xuzhibike.com
Delivery: 4-6weeks.
Please noted and advise.
Best regards! 
Jerry Lee
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
me:
Dear Jerry Lee
Do you have model 008 or 002 in stock, or any other road bike with Campagnolo Bora Two wheels? How much cost the small wheeled bike O008?
best regards
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Dear xxxxx , 
Thanks for your mail. Nice holiday! 
Sorry, we have not stock bike for Carbon002/008 bikes. If you wanted you have to wait 60days. For our O-008 MODEL: the best price is USD379.00. Assembly with shimano Sora 24SPEED. If any qeustions, please keep in touch.
Jerry.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
me:
Thanks for a fast reply. I can wait 60 days. I'll be back regarding the O-008 model.
What sizes and price are the 008/002? Can I pay through PayPal?
best regards
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Dear xxxxx ,
The frame size valiable as 48/51/53/57/59.5cm 
Please noted and advise. 
Jerry.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
me:
Dear Jerry Lee
How much cost the 002 model?
PayPal possible?
best regards
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Dear xxxx , 
Thanks for your mail. The carbon002 is same specification with carbon008 model. Only different logo and color. So they are with same price as USD5150.00 
We only accept TT by bank transfer. Because we import the group sets and export the same out. All business under controling by our custom.
Best regards.
Jerry.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I really think it's a scam as they "sell" Pinarello FP and Cervalo and a Trek bike. Our mailing took place during mars and I don't rmember if they had another bikes back then. The USD5150 is the price for a Pinarello FP with Super Record and Bora twos... hmmmm. How much is normal price for that bike?

This is the small wheeled O-008 model... 
<a href="https://s5.photobucket.com/albums/y167/M4420/?action=view&current=83.jpg" target="_blank"><img src="https://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y167/M4420/83.jpg" border="0" alt="Photobucket"></a>


----------



## nickl75

ultraman6970 said:


> ClarkinHawaii i been looking those type of items for a while, if you go to alibaba and search for campagnolo or another high end frame brand you see for example bmc team bikes full campagnolo UT like for 1600 bucks, mickey mouse numbers, I sent an email to one of them asking for a bmc bike and they told me that it was the whole bike but now the issue is if its real.


If they are quoting on an Impec, then it's not real. They aren't even made in China, so they can't get them cheaper.

I'd be pretty doubtful about the other brand name ones, too. You don't buy Rolex watches on ebay, same thing here.

OTOH, there are plenty of legitimate sellers who'll give you a good price on a good frame. They probably hate the scammers as much as we do.


----------



## ultraman6970

Got my email replay from Kate liu
-----
Hello dear friend:



Thank you for your inquiry.


For this bike,we can offer our wholesale price as following :


Brand


Model (2011)


Price(USD$)

BMC


Impec Di2


1299



Delivery Free ,Door to door service,3-4 days get.



Any other questions please feel free to contact me.



Looking forward to your reply .



Best Wishes

Kate

---------------

Ok they are delivering a bike that is not even in the market yet for 1/4 of the price, amazing 

I'll move to china to get some easy money, and these ones are in HK, just wonder where they really are located


----------



## stubek

ultraman6970 said:


> Got my email replay from Kate liu
> -----
> Hello dear friend:
> 
> 
> 
> Thank you for your inquiry.
> 
> 
> For this bike,we can offer our wholesale price as following :
> 
> 
> Brand
> 
> 
> Model (2011)
> 
> 
> Price(USD$)
> 
> BMC
> 
> 
> Impec Di2
> 
> 
> 1299
> 
> 
> 
> Delivery Free ,Door to door service,3-4 days get.
> 
> 
> 
> Any other questions please feel free to contact me.
> 
> 
> 
> Looking forward to your reply .
> 
> 
> 
> Best Wishes
> 
> Kate
> 
> ---------------
> 
> Ok they are delivering a bike that is not even in the market yet for 1/4 of the price, amazing
> 
> I'll move to china to get some easy money, and these ones are in HK, just wonder where they really are located


Just the fact that it is Di2 equiped for $1299 is a joke. The rear derailleur alone is $850.


----------



## ClarkinHawaii

I consider the possibility that most of these Alibaba sellers (the legitimate ones, anyway) operate on the same model as NiagaraCycle in the USA--they just get a catalog from a big wholesaler and post the catalog. Somebody orders something, they pay, the seller takes that money and orders the product from the wholesaler, keeping an overage for their trouble. Little or no stock or overhead. Tea and high end bikes or any other product for which they have a good source and can find a market.
However, when they have an interested customer and they just don't bother to answer the inquiry, I can't help but be skeptical. Why did they go to the trouble of putting together their Alibaba advertising if they are not going to follow up on the leads it generates? I mean, OK, it's a scam, but how does the scam work if they just post an ad and don't answer inquiries?
I confess that I jumped out of bed this morning eager to see my response from Kean Trading so I could order a few of those $800 SRAM Red groupsets. So sorry!


----------



## stubek

ClarkinHawaii said:


> Why did they go to the trouble of putting together their Alibaba advertising if they are not going to follow up on the leads it generates? I mean, OK, it's a scam, but how does the scam work if they just post an ad and don't answer inquiries?
> I confess that I jumped out of bed this morning eager to see my response from Kean Trading so I could order a few of those $800 SRAM Red groupsets. So sorry!


My guess is the actually think long term and create multiple sites. One they might actually sell some stuff through, but others they use to get people interested, but never sell anything for a year or more so they can get that Gold +2 label.

I can almost believe the wholesale price on SRAM Red being around $800. I know that in the 90s, my friend's bike shop basically had all their prices at their cost x 2= selling price and the employee discounts were cost + 50%. His prices were very similar to other local stores. This was all before internet. So, if you can get a SRAM Red road group for $1,600, then yes, $800 might be the wholesale price they pay. But then if they are selling it at that price and giving you free shipping on a 15 pound package halfway around the world, they are making no money. It is questionable.

Bottom line, I personally will not buy through Alibaba without one of two things happening, seller accepting PayPal. One of the very reputable sellers listed on this forum. I personally am not going to be the one to try a new seller who only takes WU or BT and no one else has bought from them and loose my $800+.


----------



## steve.lewis117

Hey all,

So new to this but have been following all previous threads regarding frames. I opted for GreatKeen and bought the Pinarello look frame and fork (RFM101), same colours as our work team and didn't want to source other decals etc!

The package arrived with little problem, however it had taken a thwack in the post and broke the rear chainstay. GreatKeen said they would replace if I sent it back, which I did. So now it has been stuck in Shenzehn City Customs since 31 Aug.

I have emailed Ms.Hu at GreatKeen but get no reply, soooo frustrating:mad2: . UK Parcelforce has done as much as they can, so now I am stuck!!

Has anyone else experienced this from GreatKeen? 

Cheers
Link: http://www.greatkeenbike.com/main/home/cp_detail.php?id=64&nowmenuid=12&cpath=0009:&catid=0


----------



## ClarkinHawaii

steve.lewis117 said:


> Hey all,
> 
> So new to this but have been following all previous threads regarding frames. I opted for GreatKeen and bought the Pinarello look frame and fork (RFM101), same colours as our work team and didn't want to source other decals etc!
> 
> The package arrived with little problem, however it had taken a thwack in the post and broke the rear chainstay. GreatKeen said they would replace if I sent it back, which I did. So now it has been stuck in Shenzehn City Customs since 31 Aug.
> 
> I have emailed Ms.Hu at GreatKeen but get no reply, soooo frustrating:mad2: . UK Parcelforce has done as much as they can, so now I am stuck!!
> 
> Has anyone else experienced this from GreatKeen?
> 
> Cheers
> Link: http://www.greatkeenbike.com/main/home/cp_detail.php?id=64&nowmenuid=12&cpath=0009:&catid=0


Greatkeenbike.com is different outfit from DengFu Greatkeen.

Greatkeenbike has a bad reputation, I would say; yes people have had complaints similar to yours. Groupbuy from Spain had all kinds of problems with them.

None of them are perfect, but greatkeenbike is worse than average.

Are they going to reimburse you for the shipping? They clearly plan on repairing that frame, either for you or another lucky winner. I'd stay away.


----------



## steve.lewis117

I would like to think they will either replace the frame or refund it completely, however, getting in touch with Ms.Hu is proving real difficult. I even phoned them today but language barriers put an end to that!

I will let you all know how it goes, but for now, if anyone is contemplating GreatKeenBike.com, think long and hard! ;-)


----------



## config

steve.lewis117 said:


> I would like to think they will either replace the frame or refund it completely, however, getting in touch with Ms.Hu is proving real difficult. I even phoned them today but language barriers put an end to that!
> 
> I will let you all know how it goes, but for now, if anyone is contemplating GreatKeenBike.com, think long and hard! ;-)


I would post this on the 'Bad experiences' http://forums.roadbikereview.com/showthread.php?t=225694 link as well. Off topic, what team colors do you have?


----------



## steve.lewis117

config said:


> I would post this on the 'Bad experiences' http://forums.roadbikereview.com/showthread.php?t=225694 link as well. Off topic, what team colors do you have?


:thumbsup: Rgr, just done that! Sounds like I found the bad egg in the basket! Yeah, work team clours are blue and white so it would have looked sweeeet! I was replacing my Kuota Kebel that got stolen but....found the idiot selling it on eBay! Said individual now arrested and bike returned!  

Cheers all, be in touch soon if I hear anything!


----------



## SilentAssassin

stevesbike said:


> sram makes a slant adjustment washer that fits between the clamp and front derailleur that could also work. It's in their spare part catalog.


Ahhh, so it really wasn't a frame defect and he just needed to get that part. My bad.


----------



## red elvis

i went to incycles in pasadena to inquire about upgrading my wheelset. he told me that it will be better if i sell my bike and buy a new one. to but a wheelset is around $800 (plus labor) but if i would sell my bike and save up another 1000, i could buy their 2009 specialized roubaix for $2k. afterwards i went to pasadena cyclery. i could get a lighter wheelset (bontrager lite) for $600 including labor and would shed about 1 lb on my bike weight. so its gonna be 19lbs and not 20. i'm not exactly sure what to do. should i just stay with my current set up? will a pound lighter will make a difference esp when climbing?


----------



## Safeway

red elvis - lose weight off your body first and build up muscular endurance and strength.

Don't upgrade your wheels only. If you feel the itch to upgrade, look on Craigslist for a used Roubaix.


----------



## red elvis

Safeway said:


> red elvis - lose weight off your body first and build up muscular endurance and strength.
> 
> Don't upgrade your wheels only. If you feel the itch to upgrade, look on Craigslist for a used Roubaix.


ok. thank you for the advice.


----------



## Safeway

Red Elvis -

Do a few searches here: http://losangeles.craigslist.org/bik/

Search for Madone, Kuota, Tarmac, Roubaix, ...

Before you buy anything, post up a link and ask someone for help. This is a Chinese Carbon thread, so you'd be better off posting a new thread for help once you find a bike rather than posting in here.

Or you can email me at USERNAME @ gmail . com, where USERNAME is 'safeway'.


----------



## Deus_Ex_Machina

Help me out here. 

I am able to buy a Lapierre Xelius frame for $1500, brand new. It's a fantastic frame. It's made in Taiwan like almost every other carbon fiber frame. On the other hand, I can buy this XPace FM-R830SL frame for $600. It's also made in Taiwan. Obviously no major European races have been won on it, but that does not mean it is an inferior frame.

Am I a fool to spend twice as much money on a "known" frame when the "unknown" frame may be just as good? 

http://www.coloradocyclist.com/product/item/LAPADQQJ

http://www.xpa-cycling.com/products_data.php?htm=15.html&key=2

Other than reviews on this website(many of which I suspect are posted by interested parties), how do I know if the "unknown" frame is even close to the quality of the "known" frame?


----------



## mtnbikecrazy55

man, im riding a no name aluminum frame with a acarbon rear end.

Seeing all these make me want to upgrade to carbon!

But, I think its odd seeing all thes bikes with no decals.

I got a set of Colnago decals off ebay and put them on my bike in stock locations, and makes it definatly have more "normalness"

is that a sin to put name brand decals on a no name frame? lol

i would opt for custom decals, but would never be able to decide on a name/etc.


----------



## mtnbikecrazy55

and if you want to see a carbon bike......

http://velonews.competitor.com/2010...rwheel-bikes_142776/attachment/ib_fairwheel10

damnnn...

SIX POUNDS.


----------



## duck_05as

Hello!
Look this Pinarello Dogma frame on alibaba!

http://www.alibaba.com/product-gs/3..._60_1_Carbon_2010_bike_frame_road_carbon.html


----------



## Ohm

paypal too 
Looks real but it's hard to say really.


----------



## Ohm

Hello Kate Liu,
I'm very interrested in your Pinarello Dogma frame. How much cost a frameset (one frame)?
Do you have the frame in stock?

kind regards 
xxxxx xxxxx


Hello dear friend:

Thank you for your inquiry. 
For this bike,we can offer our wholesale price as following :
Brand Model (2010) Price(USD$)
Pinarello Dogma 60.1 Carbon frame USD 899 
Delivery Free ,Door to door service,3-4 days get.
Any other questions please feel free to contact me.
Looking forward to your reply .

Best Wishes
Kate


----------



## stubek

mtnbikecrazy55 said:


> is that a sin to put name brand decals on a no name frame? lol


Only if you put them on the wrong frame or the wrong place on the frame :blush2:


----------



## stubek

mtnbikecrazy55 said:


> and if you want to see a carbon bike......
> SIX POUNDS.


That is from Fairwheel bikes in Tucson. They also have a Di2 based mountain bike on sale that actually does sequential shifting, you just push up shift or down shift and it figures out the next best combination and shifts.

Those guys rock, its where I bought my current road bike.


----------



## BlackDoggystyle

mtnbikecrazy55 said:


> is that a sin to put name brand decals on a no name frame? lol
> 
> .



nOpe...it isn't. But selling it afterwards as a Colnago or whatever brand name to an ignorant buyer...that...is a BIG sin.


----------



## asad137

mtnbikecrazy55 said:


> is that a sin to put name brand decals on a no name frame? lol


Sin? No. In poor taste? Probably 

Asad


----------



## stubek

BlackDoggystyle said:


> nOpe...it isn't. But selling it afterwards as a Colnago or whatever brand name to an ignorant buyer...that...is a BIG sin.


If you even think of doing that, the bicycle gods (safe roads be upon them) will curse you for all eternity with flat tires, bad shifting, and ugly carbon weaves!


----------



## duck_05as

Dear Mr. xxx,

Thanks for your inquiry. Following is the price:

Frame Pinarello Dogma: 950usd/set

Shipping cost: 80usd

Delivery way: DHL/UPS/FEDEX, 3-4 days, door to door service

Payment method: bank transfer, western union. 

My best regards,

Emily Hong


----------



## duck_05as

Very good price !!!

http://kartika-chandra.com/products/Fondriest-TF3-2010-Frameset.html?setCurrencyId=2


----------



## karlo

*My KGDC-6 (FM015)*

All items from DengFu and will give them a :thumbsup: 

I received my order yesterday Sept. 23 noon and was shipped on Monday Sept. 20, I placed the order on Sept. 15 but needed to wait for the frame to be painted Matte.

I talked with both Tony and Mina but only used email for Invoice checking everything was dealt by the Alibaba/Trademanager Chat and probably spend a total of 2 hours chatting until everything was correct, all the communication was perfect and I didn't see much language difference as it was pretty good English. Saw Tony online but Mina answered because he was not in and helped me make sure everything was in and done properly and said she would tell Tony to send everything ASAP and on Monday I talked to Tony and he said Mina talked to him and that he had just sent the package. 

I am very happy with the entire process since day one, Communication, Price, Quality of products, Shipping, Packaging was well done.

Here are a few pictures so far since last night.


----------



## nealric

> Dear Mr. xxx,
> 
> Thanks for your inquiry. Following is the price:
> 
> Frame Pinarello Dogma: 950usd/set
> 
> Shipping cost: 80usd
> 
> Delivery way: DHL/UPS/FEDEX, 3-4 days, door to door service
> 
> Payment method: bank transfer, western union.
> 
> My best regards,
> 
> Emily Hong v


----------



## GardenDwarf

duck_05as said:


> Very good price !!!
> 
> http://kartika-chandra.com/products/Fondriest-TF3-2010-Frameset.html?setCurrencyId=2


And they take PayPal, do you think to do a move??


----------



## ultraman6970

OHM clearly thats scam, i was asking for the bmc impec and they say they have it or can actually make it hehe


----------



## GardenDwarf

duck_05as said:


> Very good price !!!
> 
> http://kartika-chandra.com/products/Fondriest-TF3-2010-Frameset.html?setCurrencyId=2


Yep good price but Paypal seem to have block him : This recipient is currently unable to receive money.


[email protected]

Return to Merchant
This recipient is currently unable to receive money.


----------



## stubek

GardenDwarf said:


> Yep good price but Paypal seem to have block him : This recipient is currently unable to receive money.
> 
> 
> [email protected]
> 
> Return to Merchant
> This recipient is currently unable to receive money.


Then someone made a claim against him, stay clear


----------



## zender

mtnbikecrazy55 said:


> is that a sin to put name brand decals on a no name frame? lol


It plays out like this. If you put a decal of something that doesn't belong, anyone who would know what the decal means would know that it doesn't belong there. Conversely, everyone else has no idea what it means so it's irrelevant.

This applies to putting a Colnago decal on a Huffy, or the variety of BS decals people put on cars.


----------



## ColoRoadie

*FM027 hits the road*

Well, my new FM027 hit the road yesterday. I had intended a leisurely shake down ride, just to make sure I had not screwed anything up...it didn't quite work out that way though. First, some details:

FM027 frame and fork from Dengfu (Tony)
Campagnolo Chorus/Athena group
Campagnolo Proton wheels I had hanging around
Old set of Veloce brakes until I decide what I want to put on it

So, I pedaled off on what was going to be a slow and casual cruise to stretch the new bike's legs. Honestly expected a trip around the block and then have to come home to fix some little thing that popped up. We live at the top of a hill so it's a 2 mile descent down to my typical ride around the reservoir, and I headed that way out of habit mostly. I decided to do a slow descent, just to get the feel for the bike. First thing I noticed was how nicely the frame soaked up the bumps in comparison to my 2002 Litespeed Atlas (aluminum/carbon). Then, the new campy drivetrain was putting a grin on my face in comparison to the Campy Centaur on the litespeed...next thing I know I've pedaled out 35mph downhill and I'm grinning from ear to ear. So, I decided to stretch the ride a bit more than around the block.

It got dark (and cold), and cut the ride to a two lap around the reservoir 20 mile trip. Now, there is certainly some new bike fever going on here...and most of you know how that goes, so I expected to beat my average time for two laps. What I didn't expect, was to crush my best time like I did. The bike rides like a dream. The trail around the reservoir is concrete with cuts every 8 feet or so. They can tend to rattle your teeth by the end of a ride but the bike soaked them up like I was on asphalt. Very nice. The campy drivetrain need not be reviewed here, so I'll just say WOW.

I can't say the bike is done by any means. The paint scheme is still being considered, there is no bar tape on yet (that's electrical tape you see there), and the fit isn't quite right yet. Still, I have to say that I'm happy with the bike thus far. It's only one ride, and a short one at that, but it feels great thus far. One complaint though, the bottle cages don't quite work out...as you can't get both bottle all the way in. The rear cage with bottle seated has the front bottle resting on it..about half an inch from being seated. A pic just prior to her maiden voyage:


----------



## nealric

> This applies to putting a Colnago decal on a Huffy, or the variety of BS decals people put on cars.


I think Colnago decals on a Huffy would be the ultimate expression of hipster irony (especially if the Huffy was a fixie conversion with a suicide hub).


----------



## BernyMac

I think Murray/Huffy decals on the generic carbon frame would be funny.

Anyway, does anybody have any experience with the generic integrated carbon handlebar from Dengfu/Hongfu?


----------



## red elvis

Safeway said:


> Red Elvis -
> 
> Do a few searches here: http://losangeles.craigslist.org/bik/
> 
> Search for Madone, Kuota, Tarmac, Roubaix, ...
> 
> Before you buy anything, post up a link and ask someone for help. This is a Chinese Carbon thread, so you'd be better off posting a new thread for help once you find a bike rather than posting in here.
> 
> Or you can email me at USERNAME @ gmail . com, where USERNAME is 'safeway'.


will do. for now i will just keep riding to get better. thanks again.


----------



## config

Ohm said:


> Hello Kate Liu,
> I'm very interrested in your Pinarello Dogma frame. How much cost a frameset (one frame)?
> Do you have the frame in stock?
> 
> kind regards
> xxxxx xxxxx
> 
> 
> Hello dear friend:
> 
> Thank you for your inquiry.
> For this bike,we can offer our wholesale price as following :
> Brand Model (2010) Price(USD$)
> Pinarello Dogma 60.1 Carbon frame USD 899
> Delivery Free ,Door to door service,3-4 days get.
> Any other questions please feel free to contact me.
> Looking forward to your reply .
> 
> Best Wishes
> Kate


Here's what I got: Their price is NOT even consistent or maybe demand is up ;-)

Hello dear friend:
Thank you for your inquiry.
For this bike frame,we can offer our wholesale price as following :
Brand Model (2010) Price(USD$) 1020
Pinarello Dogma 60.1 Carbon Frame
Delivery Free ,Door to door service,3-4 days get.
Colours available, pictures attached, please check.
Sizes available : XS S M L XL XXL , Depends on your height.

Any other questions please feel free to contact me.
Looking forward to your reply .


Best Wishes

Kate


----------



## ZeroSum

Hi, I'm new to the site and I've been reading through all this with great interest. I'm seriously considering the FM-R830SL and came across this yesterday which I thought some of you might be interested in.

https://bit.ly/aNtY3e

It's a blog post on Planet-X's website showing the shipping box of their "High Modulus Nanolight" frames with the FM-R830SL model number on the side and then the frames built up with Dura Ace Di2 and Campy Super Record.


----------



## Ohm

I asked if I could pay through pay pal and got this reply.

Hello dear Jose Carlos, (NOT my name??) 
Glad to hear from you. 
Colours Available , pictures attached. please check. 
We take TT ( bank transfer ) or Western Union as the payment.
Best Regards
Kate

I replied asking about why I could not pay through Pay Pal. The ad on AliBaba says PP is possible. I told "her" about me plans to buy several frames later on if everything went smoothly. I have not recieved an answer yet...

attached pics 
<a href="https://s5.photobucket.com/albums/y167/M4420/?action=view&current=team_kuken.jpg" target="_blank"><img src="https://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y167/M4420/team_kuken.jpg" border="0" alt="Photobucket"></a>
<a href="https://s5.photobucket.com/albums/y167/M4420/?action=view&current=Dogmaframe3.jpg" target="_blank"><img src="https://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y167/M4420/Dogmaframe3.jpg" border="0" alt="Photobucket"></a>
<a href="https://s5.photobucket.com/albums/y167/M4420/?action=view&current=Dogmaframe2.jpg" target="_blank"><img src="https://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y167/M4420/Dogmaframe2.jpg" border="0" alt="Photobucket"></a>
<a href="https://s5.photobucket.com/albums/y167/M4420/?action=view&current=dogmaframe1.jpg" target="_blank"><img src="https://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y167/M4420/dogmaframe1.jpg" border="0" alt="Photobucket"></a>


----------



## ultraman6970

It is a scam, i been looking stuff in there and people from different countries in asia selling stuff that is not even in the market yet. As for the dogma kate is a scam, but somebody has the real tihng, i wish i could go to china and pick the bike myself hehehe


----------



## config

I like how they have the pictures of some pretty cute girls in their profile pics. It almost made me want to buy from Kate. I should ask her to pose with my preferred frame ;-)


----------



## ultraman6970

send her an email and ask her then


----------



## Spursrider

Deus_Ex_Machina said:


> On the other hand, I can buy this XPace FM-R830SL frame for $600.
> 
> http://www.xpa-cycling.com/products_data.php?htm=15.html&key=2


Hi Deus_Ex_Machina, can you let us know where to buy XPace FM-R830SL frame for $600?


----------



## Ohm

I know nothing about XPace but this is the answer to my qestion about how much Sunday Trade will charge you for the 830SL.
http://www.alibaba.com/product-gs/269211943/Super_Light_Carbon_Road_Bicycle_Frame.html


Hello,xxxx xxx


Thanks for your email.
Yes, Luckly, we have size 55cm, UD clear coat finish in stock for FM-R830SL.
Unit price is $824.00/set, include frame, fork, headset, shipping cost, Paypal charge(or ESCROW fee)
Is this ok for you?
May I prepare the invoice for you?
Will you pay by Paypal or ESCROW on Aliexpress?

http://www.aliexpress.com/store/301...ad-bike-frame-and-fork-FM-R830SL-FK-R830.html

Thanks and All My Best Regards
Jessie

([email protected])


----------



## neilh

Does anyone have an email address for someone at Dengfu? I've tried contacting them through http://dengfu.en.alibaba.com/ and have heard nothing back. Thanks.


----------



## MrPerkles

chinese national holiday after this weekend so responses will be slow.Ive had great communication with greetkeen my Prince copy is ready to ship after the holidays and looks good from the photos they have sent


----------



## jmarteijn

karlo said:


> These have it but they are only Free Member in Alibaba so you have to be extra careful and do your research first.
> 
> http://www.alibaba.com/product/tw11...arbon_Mountain_Bike_Frame_MTB_Bike_Frame.html


Nobody seen this frame used on a complete bike?


----------



## karlo

neilh said:


> Does anyone have an email address for someone at Dengfu? I've tried contacting them through http://dengfu.en.alibaba.com/ and have heard nothing back. Thanks.


Tony: [email protected]
Mina: [email protected]

I use the Alibaba chat program to talk to them but remember the time difference, I would talk to them around 11pm-11am Central time that's when I would most likely get them online, it's an 11 hour difference.


----------



## steve.lewis117

MrPerkles said:


> chinese national holiday after this weekend so responses will be slow.Ive had great communication with greetkeen my Prince copy is ready to ship after the holidays and looks good from the photos they have sent


Mr Perkles - Check this is not GreatKeenBike.com. I have been F*&$ed over by Ms.Hu at Greatkeen (not Dengfu). I too had a Prince sent, it broke in transit. See my post on Page 7 for more details. I hope it is not the same people for your sake!!

Cheers


----------



## ultraman6970

Just wonder why people have so many complains with broken frames of Greatkeen (not degfu), at this point i believe the sucker send broken bikes or something because the other guys, dengfu have no issues whatsoever.


----------



## config

MrPerkles said:


> chinese national holiday after this weekend so responses will be slow.Ive had great communication with greetkeen my Prince copy is ready to ship after the holidays and looks good from the photos they have sent


Their pictures are great, unfortunately I don't believe it's the pictures of your exact bike. I say that because I asked them to send me a picture of the unpainted frame and they did. It didn't match because the cable-boss stops were on the wrong side on the frame they sent me.


----------



## zender

I'd be very concerned about those Pinarello frames being a scam. I've yet to see an actual delivered frame on these forums from China that had anything but a plain machined aluminum bottom bracket insert. If you look at those Pina "copies" they have the real inserts with writing on them. Not saying it's not possible that 
A) these are the exact frames they ship to Italy for assembly
B) they copied every detail down to the machined bottom bracket inserts

but... I'd be careful.


----------



## config

zender said:


> I'd be very concerned about those Pinarello frames being a scam. I've yet to see an actual delivered frame on these forums from China that had anything but a plain machined aluminum bottom bracket insert. If you look at those Pina "copies" they have the real inserts with writing on them. Not saying it's not possible that
> A) these are the exact frames they ship to Italy for assembly
> B) they copied every detail down to the machined bottom bracket inserts
> 
> but... I'd be careful.


I'd be very careful and stay away. Those pictures are of 'real' Pinarellos. If they indeed have all these frames with various color/painting schemes then why are their pictures completely different at various places, not one picture with all the different models side by side?


----------



## nealric

I really think it's a waste of time to try to get name-brand frames (or even convincing copies thereof) out of the Chinese sellers.


----------



## karlo

config said:


> I'd be very careful and stay away. Those pictures are of 'real' Pinarellos. If they indeed have all these frames with various color/painting schemes then why are their pictures completely different at various places, not one picture with all the different models side by side?



Did he say those pictures were sent to him because that first one looks kind of like this one :

http://benton-tennessee.olx.com/pinarello-dogma-60-1-carbon-2010-frameset-new-56cm-iid-94554036


----------



## timrowan

Google Pinarello Dogma frame...

http://gallery.roadbikereview.com/showphoto.php/photo/100863/si/dogma

http://range.wordpress.com/2010/07/31/2010-pinarello-dogma-di2-my-way/

not over surprised


----------



## stubek

timrowan said:


> Google Pinarello Dogma frame...
> 
> http://gallery.roadbikereview.com/showphoto.php/photo/100863/si/dogma
> 
> http://range.wordpress.com/2010/07/31/2010-pinarello-dogma-di2-my-way/
> 
> not over surprised


At least for the blue and white one, they did crop a little and flip the picture!


----------



## config

timrowan said:


> Google Pinarello Dogma frame...
> 
> http://gallery.roadbikereview.com/showphoto.php/photo/100863/si/dogma
> 
> http://range.wordpress.com/2010/07/31/2010-pinarello-dogma-di2-my-way/
> 
> not over surprised


See what I mean? Nice work!


----------



## Deus_Ex_Machina

FTR said:


> I definitely think it is time for a locked FAQ regarding these frames.
> I am planning on starting to do some crit racing later this year and am thinking I would rather do that on one of these than on my Moots.
> I would cry if I crashed the Moots but would care far less about crashing and hurting the cheap carbon.
> Unfortunately I am at the stage where it is all getting too confusing trying to work out what is good, what is bad, who is scamming, who carries what.
> Perhaps a 2nd sticky with pics, a description of what frame model it is and what additional components were also sourced from that seller.


I think we need a place for these frames to be reviewed in the Reviews section. This is RoadBikeReview.com after all. Why is there no review section for these frames? They are legitimate products just as much as any other product, and there is obviously a great deal of interest in them..


----------



## stubek

Deus_Ex_Machina said:


> I think we need a place for these frames to be reviewed in the Reviews section. This is RoadBikeReview.com after all. Why is there no review section for these frames? They are legitimate products just as much as any other product, and there is obviously a great deal of interest in them..


Probably no reviews of the frames because the manufacturers won't give them to the trades or professional reviewers, so it is up to "us" to review them.


----------



## philischen

Got my second FM-015 frame on the way. A friend of mine ordered several frames. Already arrived, but all without headsets.

So, anybody here has a left over FM-015 headset (1 1/8 - 1,5") and is willing to sell it???

Thanks


----------



## Safeway

Guys, I need your help.

I road a 60mm 2010 Trek Madone 6.9 across Iowa on RAGBRAI. It wasn't my bike, it was a Trek Factory Demo. It felt wonderful - agile, responsive, super light. I think it was the professional fit, which corresponds to H1 or H2 on the 2011 bikes?

Trek Madone - 60cm - H1
Stack: 58.6cm
Reach: 40.4cm

Trek Madone - 60cm - H2
Stack: 61.5cm
Reach: 39.5cm

So the H2 has a higher stack and shorter reach, creating a more relaxed riding position. Now compare that to these two (plus one) popular China Carbons, but at 58cm:

FM015 - 58cm
Stack: 58.5cm
Reach: 39.5cm

FM028 - 58cm
Stack: 60.7cm
Reach: 38.7cm

FM032 - 58cm - Yishun carries this frame. I ordered my wheel set from Yishun, and I really like dealing with Stefano. Does anyone know the stack/reach of the 58cm variety?
Stack: ???
Reach: ???

Using the attached sizing chart, I approximated it to be 58.5cm stack and 40.3cm reach. I might be doing it wrong, though.

It looks like the 58cm FM015 and FM032 are basically identical to the 60cm H1 Madone. The 58cm FM028 is more like the H2 fit. All in all, the frames are all very similar and can be adjusted via spacers and stems.

So, think the FM032 from Yishun is the way to go? Does anyone have this bike built up? I am planning on racing it, so the aggressive fit is top and stiffness is definitely important.

1) Am I doing stack/reach right?
2) FM015 or FM032 from Yishun for racing?
3) If I go the ISP route, should I be concerned about durability or chopping off too much? (Ride it, too tall, shave, ride it, too tall, shave, repeat until right?)
4) That looks like an over sized seat post, so who makes a super light topper?


----------



## ColoRoadie

Here ya go. Plug and play:

http://cheapcarbonframes.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/08/sizing.html


----------



## Safeway

Can I get some more input on my post - about the FM015 v. FM032?

Anyone with a FM032?

Using that calculator, I got:

FM032 - 58cm
Stack: 59.2cm
Reach: 38.6cm

I don't know if I used the correct #s - that reach seems a bit short.


----------



## FTR

ColoRoadie said:


> Here ya go. Plug and play:
> 
> http://cheapcarbonframes.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/08/sizing.html


Another reason we need a locked sticky.
I have posted this twice in the past but but keeps disappearing down through the posts and then similar questions needing this calculator keep popping up.


----------



## Safeway

I'm not talking about the calculator! I want MORE information and SUGGESTIONS.

Can you guys read more than one line of a post?

I knew about the calculator and used it prior to posting - I just think that the numbers are wrong AND I want to know what you guys think about the FM015 versus the FM032.

Yes, I am asking for your opinion.


----------



## FTR

Have you searched for the FM032 on the forum?
I think it is only new. I seem to remember a post about a week or so ago about it and saying it was new.
The BB drop figure is definitely wrong. If you look at the pre-populated frames in the calculator you will see that the usually BB drop figure is around 70mm.
Plugging that adjusted figure in, you end up with a stack of 591.85 and a reach of 394.05 which is almost the same as my Moots compact (which I love) and the FM830.

Similar to the Madone H1.
Taller than the FM015.
Shorter stack and reach than the FM028.

I have no opinion what works best for you.


----------



## zigzag84

This is my FM015 bike ... In France ... *Miracle*https://miracletrade.en.alibaba.com...2584/road_carbon_frame_carbon_frame_road.html
miracletrade


----------



## stubek

zigzag84 said:


> This is my FM015 bike ... In France ...


That build looks great and I still love that paint job. I think it is second best only to my new bike http://www.cyclescience.co.nz/content.asp?syscmd=picview&picID=223999

I am really impressed that Miracle did that good of a job. Most the custom paint jobs these companies offer are only 1 or 2 colors and pretty straight lines, but that has some great details in it and unlike me, you will be the only person with that paint job!


----------



## Safeway

Check out this bike on YishunTrade.

I've never seen it before. BB30. All the cables are routed internally. Nice looking fork, thin seat stays, and rather plain styling. I wonder where this came from.


----------



## GardenDwarf

Hello Safeway,

I've write with Mo Qiu from Yishun. They take paypal + 7% seem to be ok


----------



## zigzag84

Safeway said:


> Check out this bike on YishunTrade.
> 
> I've never seen it before. BB30. All the cables are routed internally. Nice looking fork, thin seat stays, and rather plain styling. I wonder where this came from.


What is the price of this frame ? I look nice :thumbsup:


----------



## peteonbike

*Rs2*



FTR said:


> Pedalforce RS2 is what Chinese frame??
> I have been drooling over mjdwyer23's for a while now.


The RS2 is here WWW.TOPRIDETEK.COM
Frame TP-R801 in 52 cm size came in at 990g with derailluer hanger, bb guide and cable adjusters fitted. The fork supplied weighed 305g when cut down to 190mm. I also got a seatpost which weighed 180g when 80mm was cut off it. Frame is 3k carbon with gloss finish.
Cost was us$359 for frame and fork, 34 for the seatpost and 85 to send to Australia.
Wallace promised it would take a week but it took 3. He had apparently been away on business in the meantime.

A couple of other prices
RE: Price of TP-R801
1)12K carbon:319USD;
2)3K Carbon:359USD;

RE: Price of the TP-R808S
1)12K carbon:430USD;
2)3K Carbon: 470USD


----------



## takmanjapan

Safeway said:


> Check out this bike on YishunTrade.
> 
> I've never seen it before. BB30. All the cables are routed internally. Nice looking fork, thin seat stays, and rather plain styling. I wonder where this came from.


I contacted a seller about it and was told it was unavailable....


----------



## zigzag84

takmanjapan said:


> I contacted a seller about it and was told it was *unavailable*....



Why unavailable ? Because a another compagny sell it i suppose whith a big price :mad2: 

When it's available ?


----------



## GardenDwarf

This is my thread with Yishun

I am sorry the YS frame is not available now because of the supplying problem... However, we have another good frame which you may interested.

Monocoque racing frame FM032: 
500/520/540/560/580mm, please see the attached geometry chart
1000±40g
US$550= frame+ seatpost+fitting fork+carbon headset
Shipping by EMS to France will cost US$70.
2 years guarantee for this item.
We have all size of this item in 3k in stock now.

You can pay with paypal (+7% commission) or Western Union or Bank Transfer or any way 
you like.

We are a professional manufacturer of carbon fiber bicycle wheels, frame, handlebar, stem, 
water bottle cage and other related carbon bicycle products. We have great interest in 
developing business with you, it will be our big pleasure if we have opportunities to be on 
service of you in the future. Please see the attach catalogue of our frames for reference.

All our carbon products are manufactured in accordance with international quality standard. 
With high quality products and the professional and trustable service, we have won a high 
reputation among customers.

Thanks and regards,
Mo Qiu


And another email 

I am sorry the YS frame is not available now because of the supplying problem... However, we have another good frame which you may interested.

Monocoque racing frame FM032: 
500/520/540/560/580mm, please see the attached geometry chart
1000±40g
US$550= frame+ seatpost+fitting fork+carbon headset
Shipping by EMS to France will cost US$70.
2 years guarantee for this item.
We have all size of this item in 3k in stock now.

You can pay with paypal (+7% commission) or Western Union or Bank Transfer or any way 
you like.

We are a professional manufacturer of carbon fiber bicycle wheels, frame, handlebar, stem, 
water bottle cage and other related carbon bicycle products. We have great interest in 
developing business with you, it will be our big pleasure if we have opportunities to be on 
service of you in the future. Please see the attach catalogue of our frames for reference.

All our carbon products are manufactured in accordance with international quality standard. 
With high quality products and the professional and trustable service, we have won a high 
reputation among customers.

Thanks and regards,
Mo Qiu

Later,. I will try to post the draw if you are interested


----------



## thefutureofamerica

*Experiences with Yishun*

Has anyone here bought an FM-015 from Yishun? They have a carbon topper for the ISP version that looks pretty sweet, but I'm a bit nervous at their claimed weights being significantly lower than other sellers... just smacks of BS to me.


----------



## zender

Safeway said:


> Check out this bike on YishunTrade.
> 
> I've never seen it before. BB30. All the cables are routed internally. Nice looking fork, thin seat stays, and rather plain styling. I wonder where this came from.


Looks like the FM018. I have one of those (not BB30 though). Pretty happy with it. Search this forum for FM018, you should get some hits.


----------



## vis8892

thefutureofamerica said:


> Has anyone here bought an FM-015 from Yishun? They have a carbon topper for the ISP version that looks pretty sweet, but I'm a bit nervous at their claimed weights being significantly lower than other sellers... just smacks of BS to me.


I don't think Yishun has the FM-015, here is their response when I checked with them last month:

Thanks for the inquiry.

I am sorry but the YS-FM040 do not have big size 58cm and the YS-049 can only be in stock in around 50 day, so both items are not available for you now...

However, we have another good items here for your references:

FM032: Size 58cm, US$550= frame+ seatpost+fitting fork+carbon headset
FM01: Size 58cm, US$530= frame+fitting fork+headset
FM018: Size 56cm, US$750=frame+seatpost+fitting fork
Above items are in stock now so they can shipped in 2 days after balanced. Please see the attached details pictures and geometry.

You can pay with paypal (+7% commission) or Western Union or Bank Transfer or any way 
you like.

We are a professional manufacturer of carbon fiber bicycle wheels, frame, handlebar, stem, 
water bottle cage and other related carbon bicycle products. We have great interest in 
developing business with you, it will be our big pleasure if we have opportunities to be on 
service of you in the future. 

Thanks and regards,
Mo Qiu


----------



## Horseface

Hey Iv been reading this forum to help me build my RFM101 from ebay so thanks for the help and here’s some pics.




View attachment 211945


View attachment 211946


----------



## dono007

Horseface: the bike is awesome!! I ordered a frame like your for $500 from Greakleen about 3 weeks ago..How is the ride with this frame?


----------



## j.vo

I remember this coming up on the previous 2.0 thread with the solution but I am no longer able to access that for some reason.

I see that a couple people have already flagged this issue, but I remember there being some issue with the braze-ons for barrel adjusters on the FM015 frames and an appropriate solution.

Can someone recap that issue and provide the solution they employed?

Thanks in advance and apologize for bringing something up that has been previously treated.


----------



## Horseface

Dono007 It’s lived up to expectation the ride is pretty smooth. I also ride a Time VX Special Pro and its just as nice of a ride.


----------



## dono007

Horseface: That's cool!! I can't wait to get mine....What's the total weigh?


----------



## Safeway

Ah, after all this frame research, I found an insane deal on a 2009 Kuota Kredo Ultra team bike. BB30, all internally routed cables, full SRAM Red, and exactly my size. I'm glad I ordered the carbon clinchers from Yishun though! This team bike doesn't come with wheels.

I'll post pictures of it once I get it polished, oiled, greased, taped, etc.


----------



## GardenDwarf

Safeway, you found a Kuota on Yishun??


----------



## Safeway

GardenDwarf said:


> Safeway, you found a Kuota on Yishun??


No no - I am just disappointed that I spent the time researching. 

I will place an order for a frame once Yishun offers a 60mm size.


----------



## Safeway

vis8892 said:


> Thanks and regards,
> Mo Qiu


What is Mo Qiu's email?


----------



## vis8892

Safeway said:


> What is Mo Qiu's email?


[email protected]

I think I got it from the carbon wheel thread, this is the email address he used when I asked questions.


----------



## GardenDwarf

I work for a compagny and we have an office at Shenzen. Often, the chinese use their personnal email because it less trouble with the rest of the world. Often, the emails from outside are blocked


----------



## skyline377

Nice looking bike!!!! How much is it shipped???




Horseface said:


> Hey Iv been reading this forum to help me build my RFM101 from ebay so thanks for the help and here’s some pics.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> View attachment 211945
> 
> 
> View attachment 211946


----------



## FTR

zigzag84 said:


> Why unavailable ? Because a another compagny sell it i suppose whith a big price :mad2:
> 
> When it's available ?


Looks similar to the Cube Litening.


----------



## JPDynamics

Does anyone know what size Front Derailleur clamp and headset is needed for the GreatKeen FM028 frame?


----------



## timed

JPDynamics said:


> Does anyone know what size Front Derailleur clamp and headset is needed for the GreatKeen FM028 frame?


34.9mm


----------



## mrbubbles

FTR said:


> Looks similar to the Cube Litening.


Similar to the non-DI2 version (DI2 version has internal cables, non-DI2 version doesn't). The geometry though, is different, so I'm guess they aren't from the same mold.

http://www.cube.eu/road/super-hpc-series/litening-super-hpc-race-teamline/


----------



## chocy

Paypal sometimes withold money for no reason up to 21 days. And sometimes if they feel that there were too many disputes regardless of the severity of issues can blacklist you forever. While paypal is convenient it has a terrible policy when once you are on the wrong side of their policy...

As much as I lament about lack of QC on their part. I think most of them known here are trying to do honest business. It's just that our standard can differ from time to time and shipping accidents can happen to anyone really...


----------



## |Ridley|

My bike Ridley-Noah and Concorde-FM015 :thumbsup:


----------



## lawrencemonsters

nice Fm 015 and noah. Which one do you like the most. I have a Damocles and built my wife the 015, she likes it and I love my Damo. both great rides:thumbsup: :thumbsup: :thumbsup:


----------



## slabber

thefutureofamerica said:


> Has anyone here bought an FM-015 from Yishun? They have a carbon topper for the ISP version that looks pretty sweet, but I'm a bit nervous at their claimed weights being significantly lower than other sellers... just smacks of BS to me.


:nonod: 

Do your research.

I bought carbon mtb wheels from Mo at Yishun. He claimed wheel weight of 1150g during the selling process but when they arrived, it was 1580...

http://forums.roadbikereview.com/showpost.php?p=2928335&postcount=319


----------



## stubek

slabber said:


> :nonod:
> 
> Do your research.
> 
> I bought carbon mtb wheels from Mo at Yishun. He claimed wheel weight of 1150g during the selling process but when they arrived, it was 1580...
> 
> http://forums.roadbikereview.com/showpost.php?p=2928335&postcount=319


That is something I was wondering about. When you buy stuff from China and the weight is off by 20, 30, 40, even almost 50%, do you send it back or ask for a partial refund for false advertising or what?


----------



## nealric

> Do your research.
> 
> I bought carbon mtb wheels from Mo at Yishun. He claimed wheel weight of 1150g during the selling process but when they arrived, it was 1580...
> 
> http://forums.roadbikereview.com/sho...&postcount=319


Oh please. YIshun clearly quoted you the weight for a road tubular. No MTB wheelset is going to be 1150g barring some crazy custom job.


----------



## FTR

nealric said:


> Oh please. YIshun clearly quoted you the weight for a road tubular. No MTB wheelset is going to be 1150g barring some crazy custom job.


Agreed

These Edge tubular 29er wheels only just made it down to under that:

http://forums.mtbr.com/showpost.php?p=6686246&postcount=1


----------



## ColoRoadie

chocy said:


> Paypal sometimes withold money for no reason up to 21 days. And sometimes if they feel that there were too many disputes regardless of the severity of issues can blacklist you forever. While paypal is convenient it has a terrible policy when once you are on the wrong side of their policy...
> 
> As much as I lament about lack of QC on their part. I think most of them known here are trying to do honest business. It's just that our standard can differ from time to time and shipping accidents can happen to anyone really...


If a company can't wait 21 days for their money, they really are a fly by night. My company often waits 3 months and more for funds. It's the nature of owning a company. Hell, I can remember my first job as a paper delivery kid, and I waited a full month before I could collect some funds. 21 days, for a real company with anything resembling decent management is nothing.


----------



## FTR

ColoRoadie said:


> If a company can't wait 21 days for their money, they really are a fly by night. My company often waits 3 months and more for funds. It's the nature of owning a company. Hell, I can remember my first job as a paper delivery kid, and I waited a full month before I could collect some funds. 21 days, for a real company with anything resembling decent management is nothing.


Please remember that these are Asian companies.
Just because that is how it is done in the US, Australia, Europe etc does not mean it is the way or culture in Asia.

Not saying it is right or wrong.
Just perhaps not their way.


----------



## slabber

nealric said:


> Oh please. YIshun clearly quoted you the weight for a road tubular. No MTB wheelset is going to be 1150g barring some crazy custom job.


It was on the light side, I recognize that but it was also what I was hoping to receive.

Ritchey Superlogic Carbon Clinchers are listed at 1296g. 
Edge Composites wheels are 1265g when built with DT190 hubs.

I thought they could end up heavier than 1150 but was also optimistic at the same time.


----------



## |Ridley|

lawrencemonsters said:


> nice Fm 015 and noah. Which one do you like the most. I have a Damocles and built my wife the 015, she likes it and I love my Damo. both great rides:thumbsup: :thumbsup: :thumbsup:


Hello, I like most about the Concorde (015), the noah's too hard


----------



## nealric

The Tri Bike is almost ready 
Just waiting on the headset spacers to build it up:


----------



## HeluvaSkier

|Ridley| said:


> My bike Ridley-Noah and Concorde-FM015 :thumbsup:


Man, if it were me, I'd have the Campy 11-speed and Assault wheels on the Noah and turn it into a flat-lands/sprint bike and put the Campy 10-speed and Campy wheels on the 015 and make it a climbing bike. These Chinese frames are great and all, but the Ridley Noah is literally my dream bike.


----------



## Bleys1911

Just wondering if any of you have had any experience with Miracle trade's MT-MC001 frame. I have been lurking around here for awhile and have almost decided to do a chinese build. The price quoted seems reasonably in line with the other companies listed here, $470 Shipped to Texas. Just curious about any experiences with this frame. Thanks.


----------



## jamesbrowm

http://allanti.com/page.cfm?PageID=328
Aren't Cervelos made in China?


----------



## jamesbrowm

http://allanti.com/page.cfm?PageID=328
Aren't Cervelos made in China?
Frame looks awesome.


----------



## Tri4fun73

I just talked to Mo at Yishun and he tells me the frame with internal routing (fm049) is available in quantities of 30 or more. If single size there is 10 minimum. This is a *****iness bike and perfect for group buy!! 
thatConcorde fm015 above is saaaweeettt!!!


----------



## Urb

Tri4fun73 said:


> I just talked to Mo at Yishun and he tells me the frame with internal routing (fm049) is available in quantities of 30 or more. If single size there is 10 minimum. This is a *****iness bike and perfect for group buy!!
> thatConcorde fm015 above is saaaweeettt!!!


Any pictures of the fm049?


----------



## Tri4fun73

Here


----------



## |Ridley|

HeluvaSkier said:


> Man, if it were me, I'd have the Campy 11-speed and Assault wheels on the Noah and turn it into a flat-lands/sprint bike and put the Campy 10-speed and Campy wheels on the 015 and make it a climbing bike. These Chinese frames are great and all, but the Ridley Noah is literally my dream bike.


The Ridley Noah is a bike uncomfortable too rigid, it is ideal for circuits, not for long distance :thumbsup:


----------



## adam_mac84

I saw that there was one post with a problem with a headset supplied/purchased with a frame. I will be ordering my FM028 from Dengfu next week likely (they will do PP if you pay service fee's, so i think i might do that, i thought it was 7%, i figure its ~$45 insurance).

Anyhow, i was thikning of just getting the headset from them or picking up this one if there were any other reported significant problems with the supplied headsets. (i'll have to get a carbon steerer plug)


----------



## rruff

That headset isn't close to being the correct one. For starters you need an integrated 1-1/2 to 1-1/8 headset and you also need to match the angles of the recess in the frame. Just get the $15 one from them.


----------



## zender

Get the headset from Dengfu. Although most of their frames in the past have used the Campy integrated headset standard (45degree/45degree angles for the races) in in 1 1/8", I think I've seen some people post with different setups.

Worst case scenario, you can take that headset with you when you shop for a replacement. In reality, what will happen is you'll build the bike with the cheap one from Dengfu, start riding it and won't bother. Since it's integrated, there will be no pretty CHRIS KING ethching visible, no matter what you buy.


----------



## adam_mac84

Thanks guys... I have not worked much with headsets much yet on my current ride, so wasn't sure what to go looking for while i source a group set. I will get the $15 one, which helps keep my build cost down.... well, i am off to craigslist/ebay to look for some Aksiums or some other wheelset. I have also been looking a lot at bicyclewheelwarehouse.com for wheels, seems like some good prices for my budget build


----------



## nickl75

Safeway said:


> I'm not talking about the calculator! I want MORE information and SUGGESTIONS.
> 
> Can you guys read more than one line of a post?
> 
> I knew about the calculator and used it prior to posting - I just think that the numbers are wrong AND I want to know what you guys think about the FM015 versus the FM032.
> 
> Yes, I am asking for your opinion.


Which numbers do you think are wrong? I'm very happy to take corrections!

(I've never seen the FM032 before, so no useful opinion on that)


----------



## asherstash1

finally got my £800 deposit on my old flat back!! paying for my 3k 54cm greatkeen 101 on thursday (barring any catastrophies). am like a little child agen


----------



## asherstash1

finally got my £800 deposit on my old flat back!! paying for my 3k 54cm greatkeen 101 on thursday (barring any catastrophies). am like a little child agen


----------



## karlo

*My KGDC-6 (FM015)*

Finally got my bike setup and decals came in yesterday and on the bike. Here are a few pictures but click on the link below to see more if you like.

KGDC-6 (FM015 from DengFu) - 16lbs as shown

To see more detailed larger pics click here: KGDC-6 Pictures


----------



## Tri4fun73

Karlo, I love it! This is my next bike!


----------



## aikendrum

Well done Karlo! You have taken the FM015 to a new level - You have convinced me to follow a similar 'decal' path in my next build - Love the white inner fork decals.


----------



## HeluvaSkier

karlo said:


> Finally got my bike setup and decals came in yesterday and on the bike. Here are a few pictures but click on the link below to see more if you like.
> 
> KGDC-6 (FM015 from DengFu) - 16lbs as shown
> 
> To see more detailed larger pics click here: KGDC-6 Pictures


Nice touch with the decals. Are you aware that your crank arms don't match each other?


----------



## .david.

Karlo - that looks incredible! I love it!


----------



## adam_mac84

Hey guys, i have posted in here with a couple of questions re: FM028, however, the previous pics of the 015 make me lust after that frame even more.

Anyhow, i am emailing with mina from Dengfu, however, she doesn't seem to understand my questions about their seatpost, if it has tilt as well as fore/aft adjustments. I know that it will have fore/aft, but saw somewhere in these posts that someone who ordered from a different site had problems because the seat 'tilt' was fixed. Don't want to order the $30 seat post if it isn't going to be adjustable

Thanks. BTW, Mina from Dengfu has been VERY prompt and good with emails and questions. I feel pretty confident with dealing with her


----------



## aikendrum

adam_mac84 said:


> Hey guys, i have posted in here with a couple of questions re: FM028, however, the previous pics of the 015 make me lust after that frame even more.
> 
> Anyhow, i am emailing with mina from Dengfu, however, she doesn't seem to understand my questions about their seatpost, if it has tilt as well as fore/aft adjustments. I know that it will have fore/aft, but saw somewhere in these posts that someone who ordered from a different site had problems because the seat 'tilt' was fixed. Don't want to order the $30 seat post if it isn't going to be adjustable
> 
> Thanks. BTW, Mina from Dengfu has been VERY prompt and good with emails and questions. I feel pretty confident with dealing with her


Hi Adam_Mac - Yes this was infact never an issue just a misunderstanding - the seatpost has both fore/aft and can be tilted. The two metal plates can be knocked out and adjusted accordingly. If you search these threads you will find information regarding this. Go ahead and purchase.


----------



## karlo

HeluvaSkier said:


> Nice touch with the decals. Are you aware that your crank arms don't match each other?


 What do you mean?


----------



## HeluvaSkier

karlo said:


> What do you mean?


It looks like the drive side is a 2009 Force crank arm and the non-drive side is a 2010 Force crank arm. ...Or did you add a decal to the inside of the non-drive crank arm?

EDIT - on further inspection it looks like your 2009 cranks have 2010 Force or SRAM Red graphics on the crank arms... I've not seen that before. All the guys I know who run pre-2010 Force don't have that.


----------



## karlo

HeluvaSkier said:


> It looks like the drive side is a 2009 Force crank arm and the non-drive side is a 2010 Force crank arm. ...Or did you add a decal to the inside of the non-drive crank arm?
> 
> EDIT - on further inspection it looks like your 2009 cranks have 2010 Force or SRAM Red graphics on the crank arms... I've not seen that before. All the guys I know who run pre-2010 Force don't have that.


 Yup, they are decals that I had made both of them have them, you scared me for a second thinking they were bent or something.


----------



## asherstash1

now theres an "upgrade" i may well purchase lol


----------



## ultraman6970

The decals are transfer decals or is printed vinyl ??

Is this the brazilian guy the one u got the decals from, right?

Love your bike,


----------



## karlo

It's a mix, I didn't use all of them because it would have made it look too busy, here are all the decals I received from him:


----------



## ultraman6970

The guys works pretty good, wonder if he can make chromed or metallic colors too.

How much did u pay?


----------



## karlo

$35 shipped, If you do contact him and make some make sure to double check all the spelling, if you see the square decal "Exclusive *Desing*" should have been "Design" but i didn't see it until I received it but he made that on his own I didn't even ask for it as well the seatstay decals he made on his own. His turn around is quick as I said before we were done in a couple of hours and he shipped out right away but it did take a couple of weeks to arrive.


----------



## ultraman6970

Thanks, the job looks like pretty well done. Wonder what he uses to print the vinyl, always obsessed with the technique to make transfers hehehe


----------



## tdawg183

Hey, I'm new to the forum and just wanted to say hey first. I've been mt. biking for a long time now and think it's time for some road. 

I have yet to be fitted for a road bike (first step) but just wanted to get a feel for what sort of frame options I'm going to have being 6'4". I've ridden a 61cm Orbea before so I'm assuming that or larger. Only request that I have is internal cable routings. Are there any like that? 

fwiw, I've read through this thread and skimmed through most of the previous carbon frame thread versions. Just don't want you guys to think i newbed it up without searching. ha. Thanks in advance!


----------



## stubek

At 6'4, you have less options than us 5'8 people. It is better now than a few years ago. My brother in law had a choice of 2 frames. Now most frames will come in a 60/61/62. Pick a bike store that can do two things for you, first, give you a good quality fit on a bike. This should take at least an hour and up to two or even longer.
Second,make sure you are comfortable with the people and that you are confident in their mechanics. Remember, they are going to be the ones probably adjusting your brakes etc, last thing you want is a high school kid who does not know what he is doing tweaking your bike when youare going down a hill at 40+


----------



## ZeroSum

I'm trying to decide which frame / size to buy and thought I'd share this to show how little difference (I think) there is in geometry between some of these frames. According to the "stack/reach" calculator:

FM028 size 52 stack 556.59mm, reach 376.50mm (140 head tube, 534 top tube)
FM015 size 53 stack 548.38mm, reach 372.25mm (135 head tube, 529.5 top tube)
FM830 size 51 stack 552.93mm, reach 373.31mm (135 head tube, 535 top tube)

All these will fit me fine. The FM830 appears to be out of stock so I'm trying to decide between running no spacers on the FM028 or running a longer stem on the FM015.
I'm leaning towards the FM028 at this stage.

Any thoughts? Anyone else notice the FM015 top tube is a bit short? 
(I have short legs, longer torso so maybe it's just me.)


----------



## stubek

ZeroSum said:


> I'm trying to decide which frame / size to buy and thought I'd share this to show how little difference (I think) there is in geometry between some of these frames. According to the "stack/reach" calculator:
> 
> FM028 size 52 stack 556.59mm, reach 376.50mm (140 head tube, 534 top tube)
> FM015 size 53 stack 548.38mm, reach 372.25mm (135 head tube, 529.5 top tube)
> FM830 size 51 stack 552.93mm, reach 373.31mm (135 head tube, 535 top tube)
> 
> All these will fit me fine. The FM830 appears to be out of stock so I'm trying to decide between running no spacers on the FM028 or running a longer stem on the FM015.
> I'm leaning towards the FM028 at this stage.
> 
> Any thoughts? Anyone else notice the FM015 top tube is a bit short?
> (I have short legs, longer torso so maybe it's just me.)


Given the short legs, longer torso statement, go for the FM015. The real question is if you have a road bike now, what is the stack/reach of that. Check slowtwich.com and they have a stack reach link on the right that has most major manufacturers.
if you are comfortable on that bike, then find something close


----------



## tdawg183

stubek said:


> At 6'4, you have less options than us 5'8 people. It is better now than a few years ago. My brother in law had a choice of 2 frames. Now most frames will come in a 60/61/62. Pick a bike store that can do two things for you, first, give you a good quality fit on a bike. This should take at least an hour and up to two or even longer.
> Second,make sure you are comfortable with the people and that you are confident in their mechanics. Remember, they are going to be the ones probably adjusting your brakes etc, last thing you want is a high school kid who does not know what he is doing tweaking your bike when youare going down a hill at 40+


Thanks! yea I'm in a local cycling club so i don't think getting sized right is going to be an issue. I just want to make sure that all of this hunting through these threads is worth it. If there aren't any frames I like then, well, I'll look elsewhere. 

Are there any frames in particular 60cm+ with internal cable routings?


----------



## ZeroSum

stubek said:


> Given the short legs, longer torso statement, go for the FM015.


Given the FM015 has the shortest reach of all 3 what makes you say that?
I'm guessing it's because it has the shortest head tube giving you more drop and I can just run a longer stem? Is that the thinking?

Also as much as I love the work that's gone into the "stack / reach" calculator I'm not sure it's 100% accurate. The stack seems a little high.

eg: Comparing essentially the same geometry frames.
FM028 size 52 stack 556.59mm, reach 376.5mm VS.
Madone 5.2 "H2" size 52 stack 547mm, reach 379mm (from trek's website)

FM830 size 51 stack 552.93mm, reach 373.31mm VS.
Planet-X size 51 stack 538.4mm, reach 376.9mm (from planet-x website)

My current bike has (measured) stack 547mm, reach 375mm, although I was thinking about getting a bit more drop out of the new frame.

Anyone got an FM015 size 53 they want to run a tape measure over and give me the actual stack / reach numbers?


----------



## ultraman6970

I was checking the same thing with my BMC and the stack is not a big deal because u can just go and use the stem with less or more spacers, but the reach is short like a 1.5 cms depending on the model in relation to the bmc i use, now if i get the closer reach i end up with a 58 frame that is too big but in lengths wise looks like ok. These frames a pretty darn short.


----------



## cfred84

karlo said:


> It's a mix, I didn't use all of them because it would have made it look too busy, here are all the decals I received from him:


Hi..Where dd you get those decals from.. 
They look good!! Can pass me the contacts or link? Thanks and Cheers :thumbsup:


----------



## config

cfred84 said:


> Hi..Where dd you get those decals from..
> They look good!! Can pass me the contacts or link? Thanks and Cheers :thumbsup:


It's on this same thread just a few pages down. http://forums.roadbikereview.com/showthread.php?t=225409&page=10
Second page from the beginning of the thread.


----------



## cww180

which is the Kuota Kredo looking frame?


----------



## Bkelly

karlo said:


> It's a mix, I didn't use all of them because it would have made it look too busy, here are all the decals I received from him:



Dude, " Design " is spelled wrong.


----------



## BlackDoggystyle

Dude...he knows.

http://forums.roadbikereview.com/showpost.php?p=3022481&postcount=299


----------



## bcmf

cww180 said:


> which is the Kuota Kredo looking frame?


It is the 001


----------



## WheresWaldo

Haven't posted in a while, but I think I am going to order a frame from HongFu. I had ordered from Archtek and I am having a lot of trouble getting them to deliver. I threatened them with posting my emails and Henry's responses (or lack thereof) on this as well as WeightWeenies if there is no response by the end of the week. It is too bad as I did get some 20mm rims from Archtek and they are just beautiful.

We shall see what transpires over the weekend.


----------



## nickl75

ZeroSum said:


> Given the FM015 has the shortest reach of all 3 what makes you say that?
> I'm guessing it's because it has the shortest head tube giving you more drop and I can just run a longer stem? Is that the thinking?
> 
> Also as much as I love the work that's gone into the "stack / reach" calculator I'm not sure it's 100% accurate. The stack seems a little high.
> 
> eg: Comparing essentially the same geometry frames.
> FM028 size 52 stack 556.59mm, reach 376.5mm VS.
> Madone 5.2 "H2" size 52 stack 547mm, reach 379mm (from trek's website)
> 
> FM830 size 51 stack 552.93mm, reach 373.31mm VS.
> Planet-X size 51 stack 538.4mm, reach 376.9mm (from planet-x website)
> 
> My current bike has (measured) stack 547mm, reach 375mm, although I was thinking about getting a bit more drop out of the new frame.
> 
> Anyone got an FM015 size 53 they want to run a tape measure over and give me the actual stack / reach numbers?


I'm assuming you're talking about my calculator at http://cheapcarbonframes.com/2010/08/frame-sizing-calculator/

I've done some investigation of this. 

As you mention, the 52cm FM028 has similar geometry to the 52cm Madone. The head tube and seat tube angles are the same, as is the head tube length and effective top tube.

For the the FM028 I calculate stack as 556.6mm and reach as 376.5mm (vs the Trek website figures of 547mm and 379mm)

However, to calculate the stack and reach we need the BB drop and the distance from the front axle to the fork crown. These aren't given by the Trek website, and vary by a few mm between bikes. By using a BB drop of 69mm (The FM028 has 71.5 and the FM015 has 70mm) and a fork-axle length of 368mm the reach comes out at 554mm. 

The difference is around 10mm, which seems roughly half the width of a headtube. If I had to speculate I'd say some measurements are done to the center of the tube, and some to the edge (maybe). 

The other possibility is an error in the math. I've hand checked it, but if someone else wants to have a go let me know.


----------



## bwatson87

Hi Guys,

Fantastic threads, really useful for those of us thinking of getting on the oriental carbon frame bandwagon.

I wonder if I could ask for a little advice on sizing?

I'm 177cm / 5'10" tall, weigh 80kg and am pretty much exactly average in proportion and build. I wear 32R trousers, and my current bike frame is a Medium sized Giant.

I'm looking at the FM-015 and FM-028 frames, could anyone advise me which might work best for me?

Thanks very much

Ben


----------



## WheresWaldo

bwatson87 said:


> Hi Guys,
> 
> Fantastic threads, really useful for those of us thinking of getting on the oriental carbon frame bandwagon.
> 
> I wonder if I could ask for a little advice on sizing?
> 
> I'm 177cm / 5'10" tall, weigh 80kg and am pretty much exactly average in proportion and build. I wear 32R trousers, and my current bike frame is a Medium sized Giant.
> 
> I'm looking at the FM-015 and FM-028 frames, could anyone advise me which might work best for me?
> 
> Thanks very much
> 
> Ben


Ben, I am your size and I usually fit to a 55cm frame although I can ride a 54 or 56 depending on stack and reach. If you currently have a bike that you feel very comfortable riding on, use that as a guide. If not, then use a fit calculator from Competitive Cyclist or Wrench Science to get you in the ball park. If you are of average fitness and flexibility those calculators will get you close enough to select other items like stem length, crank length as well as seatpost setback among other measurements.


----------



## bwatson87

Thanks for the reply, yea I've tended to go with a 54cm frame in the past, so just wondering if the 53 or 55 might work better in the FM-015?

Will have a look at those calculators.

Many thanks


----------



## MrPerkles

top tube length is more important than the seat being 53/54


----------



## Tri4fun73

*Confused*

I see karlo's bike and salivate! What do I upgrade first? I currently ride an 05 Salsa campeon with rear carbon stays and carbon fork with ultegra 6500 and neuvation wheels. I have about 7 bills and change , do I get ultegra 6700, sexy carbon 60mm wheels, or a FM015!


----------



## WheresWaldo

MrPerkles said:


> top tube length is more important than the seat being 53/54


This is true but most frame sizes are listed by seat tube size and no where in my post did I suggest that seat tube was a determining factor. SO I just shortcut to a number that Ben would be familiar with.

Remember, I am the guy who keeps preaching STACK and REACH and I mentioned it to Ben also.


----------



## bwatson87

thanks guys.

wrench science calculator provided the following output:

WS Recommended Sizes 
Frame Size center-to-center:	51 cm
Frame Size center-to-top:	53 cm
Overall Reach:	70.70 cm
Saddle Height:	69.23 cm
Handlebar Width:	42 cm

WS Recommended Sizes 
Frame Size center-to-center:	51 cm
Frame Size center-to-top:	53 cm
Overall Reach:	70.70 cm
Saddle Height:	69.23 cm
Handlebar Width:	42 cm


Your Measurements 
Height:	178.40 cm
Sternum Notch:	149.30 cm
Inseam Length:	78.40 cm
Arm Length:	62.50 cm
Shoulder Width:	41.00 cm
Flexiblity:	5
Weight:	81.60 kilo
Foot Size:	9.50 UK


looks like the 53cm FM-015 might be the way to go


----------



## MrPerkles

WheresWaldo said:


> This is true but most frame sizes are listed by seat tube size and no where in my post did I suggest that seat tube was a determining factor. SO I just shortcut to a number that Ben would be familiar with.
> 
> Remember, I am the guy who keeps preaching STACK and REACH and I mentioned it to Ben also.


wasnt a critism I didnt even read your post ,just trying to help out and share some of my experience from building custom frames .Sounds like youve got it sussed though


----------



## cfred84

config said:


> It's on this same thread just a few pages down. http://forums.roadbikereview.com/showthread.php?t=225409&page=10
> Second page from the beginning of the thread.


Thanks bro!! Got it =)


----------



## nealric

ms6073 said:


> Oh no. That appears to be an issue with lip of the headset's compression ring being too tall. It is a simple problem to correct but requires a different compression ring - one that does not add much/any height to the stack height of the top bearing.


I'm having this problem. The compression ring adds a good 1mm to the stack hight- which is precisely the amount of gap. 

Where does one buy a low-stack compression ring? I would prefer not to have to get a whole new headset.


----------



## bwatson87

*love it*

Karlo,

I really like the finish of your bike!

Can you tell me if it's 3k carbon with a matt black overlay, or the straight 3k carbon version?

Thanks

Ben



karlo said:


> Finally got my bike setup and decals came in yesterday and on the bike. Here are a few pictures but click on the link below to see more if you like.
> 
> KGDC-6 (FM015 from DengFu) - 16lbs as shown
> 
> To see more detailed larger pics click here: KGDC-6 Pictures


----------



## bikensteve901

Tri4fun73 said:


> I see karlo's bike and salivate! What do I upgrade first? I currently ride an 05 Salsa campeon with rear carbon stays and carbon fork with ultegra 6500 and neuvation wheels. I have about 7 bills and change , do I get ultegra 6700, sexy carbon 60mm wheels, or a FM015!


Get the Frame first. You can build it up slowly as you acquire parts or you can transfer your 6500 over to it. I have the FM015 and after about 500 miles am loving it more than my Ti Merlin, which is saying a lot.


----------



## bikensteve901

bwatson87 said:


> Thanks for the reply, yea I've tended to go with a 54cm frame in the past, so just wondering if the 53 or 55 might work better in the FM-015?
> 
> Will have a look at those calculators.
> 
> Many thanks


I am also 5'10" at about 180 lbs and have the FM015 in a 55cm. The fit for me is perfect with a 120mm stem at a 6 degree angle. The ride is better than my Merlin Ti which is a 53 cm. The effective top tubes are similar with a 10mm longer headtube on the FM015 for a slightly more upright position. I have not riden the FM028, but would definately buy another FM015. I would recommend getting the frame painted regardless of which one you chose.


----------



## ultraman6970

nealric said:


> I'm having this problem. The compression ring adds a good 1mm to the stack hight- which is precisely the amount of gap.
> 
> Where does one buy a low-stack compression ring? I would prefer not to have to get a whole new headset.


In my opinion u have the wrong bearing in place. Have you tried the campagnolo specification? the bearing is lower.


----------



## ClarkinHawaii

bikensteve901 said:


> I would recommend getting the frame painted regardless of which one you chose.


I got mine painted. Was thinking about getting another, with just clearcoat to show the carbon. Why do you think paint is important?


----------



## ultraman6970

Probably because is cheaper than getting the frame painted in here? A simple paint jog could cost 150 to 200 bucks.


----------



## nealric

> In my opinion u have the wrong bearing in place. Have you tried the campagnolo specification? the bearing is lower.


The headset is supposedly campy spec. If it's not, would just buying a campy spec bearing like this fix the issue? 


http://www.jensonusa.com/store/product/BG409A32-Campagnolo+Headsethiddenset+Bearings.aspx


----------



## ultraman6970

This is what i would do ok? Get a good caliper and measure the whole thing, the races in the frame and the bearings in the headset, that the chinese chick sent u a headset doesn't mean she sent you the right one. 

I believe the campagnolo spec for races is 3 mm in the top, I mean the flat part just before the 45 degrees part is like 3 mm, what i think is that the guys sent you something else. 

U have basically 3 types of specs for integrated headsets, all are 45 degrees but the bearing internally and the thickness of it is different.

I would buy a FSA Integrated headset campagnolo and thats it. But measure the frame races 1st.


----------



## bikensteve901

ClarkinHawaii said:


> I got mine painted. Was thinking about getting another, with just clearcoat to show the carbon. Why do you think paint is important?


If you knew how many name brand bikes painted their frames because of all of the minor imperfections in the finish, it would blow your mind. Just ask yourself, how many of the big boys have clearcoat carbon frames out there on the market - none. for me it is a personal preference having it painted and not worrying about the little imperfections in the carbon finish. Besides, at $40 -$80 for a paint job, that is a pretty good deal.  

Just my 2 cents. :thumbsup:


----------



## jet sanchEz

All of the bikes in this thread are very nice, I am very tempted to pull the trigger. However, there is a person local to me selling a 2008 Specialized Tarmac Elite for $450, perhaps that is a better option? What would y'all choose?


----------



## equinoxx

ultraman6970 said:


> In my opinion u have the wrong bearing in place. Have you tried the campagnolo specification? the bearing is lower.


Should there be absolutely zero gap in the stack after the top cover is installed? By top cover I am referring to the piece that slips onto the steerer tube before you install any spacers. I apologize if the terminology is incorrect


----------



## ultraman6970

equinoxx it depends of the headset u are using but it would be good if you can take a look to cane creek or fsa, they have a good explanation of integrated headsets (IS) and the differences in the headtube.

All the campagnolo type i have seen the upper cup is flush with the bearing and the headtube, almost not spacing. SO if you have a good 2 or 3 mms i dare to say that the bearing is too high, if the bearing is too high then u have the wrong headset in, so the guys sent you the wrong one. The secret is to read the numbers in the bearings.

The other thing is that from what i have noticed in different forums with people buying these frames with headset is that the sellers just pack what ever headset and send them with the bike, u put the bike together and it will work but the stack will be wrong or the headset wont tight right and stupid problems.

cya


----------



## timed

my build,

fm028, super record 2011 ergoshifters and derailleurs, kcnc c7, AX-lightness morpheus cranks on the way, 920g wheels with lowprofile carbon rims and tune mig70/mag180 hubs, alligator i-link/i-link minis.

going to be below 5,9kg complete incl pedals with margin, the only part i'm missing is the cranks.


----------



## config

timed said:


> my build,
> 
> fm028, super record 2011 ergoshifters and derailleurs, kcnc c7, AX-lightness morpheus cranks on the way, 920g wheels with lowprofile carbon rims and tune mig70/mag180 hubs, alligator i-link/i-link minis.
> 
> going to be below 5,9kg complete incl pedals with margin, the only part i'm missing is the cranks.


WOW! That's one sweet ride, congrats on your new bike!


----------



## HazemBata

timed said:


> my build,
> 
> fm028, super record 2011 ergoshifters and derailleurs, kcnc c7, AX-lightness morpheus cranks on the way, 920g wheels with lowprofile carbon rims and tune mig70/mag180 hubs, alligator i-link/i-link minis.
> 
> going to be below 5,9kg complete incl pedals with margin, the only part i'm missing is the cranks.


That is some sweet bubble-wrap. I bet it makes the ride very comfy.


----------



## karlo

bwatson87 said:


> Karlo,
> 
> I really like the finish of your bike!
> 
> Can you tell me if it's 3k carbon with a matt black overlay, or the straight 3k carbon version?
> 
> Thanks
> 
> Ben


It's 3K with a Matte Clear finish


----------



## jet sanchEz

timed said:


> my build,
> 
> fm028, super record 2011 ergoshifters and derailleurs, kcnc c7, AX-lightness morpheus cranks on the way, 920g wheels with lowprofile carbon rims and tune mig70/mag180 hubs, alligator i-link/i-link minis.
> 
> going to be below 5,9kg complete incl pedals with margin, the only part i'm missing is the cranks.


Nice, what rims and hubs have you got here?


----------



## timed

it's a pair of SVT-T2 and tune mig70/mag180 hubs for campagnolo.


----------



## timed

it's a pair of SVT-T2 and tune mig70/mag180 hubs.


----------



## jet sanchEz

timed said:


> it's a pair of SVT-T2 and tune mig70/mag180 hubs.


Did you order them as complete wheels or were they built for you? Where on the web did you find them? Thanks.


----------



## mrwirey

*My 56cm FM028*

I wanted to create a Frankenbike  out of spare parts I had lying around in the garage. I purchased this from Mina at Greatkeen about two-three months ago. Smooth transaction paid via PayPal and I had the frame etc. within 10 days. My goal (realistically) was 15.5 lbs and unrealistically to build her sub 15 with clinchers and without any exotic parts. She weighs in at 15.17lbs as pictured with everything minus water bottles. (Please excuse the date stamp on the photo as it is inaccurate...I took it today).
The build:
-Greatkeen FM028, 56cm, 12k weave with Flat Black Paint and English BB: $544 total price delivered to AZ.
-Headset: Greatkeen (price included in total).
-Seatpost: Greatkeen 3k weave with Flat Black Paint (price included in total).
-Saddle: Selle San Marco Carbon.
-Stem: Syntace 26.0 x 120mm F99 with Ti Hardware.
-Handlebar: Easton EC90 Equipe 26.0 x 42cm.
-Shifters: 2010 Campagnolo Centaur Carbon 10 Speed.
-Bottom Bracket: 2006ish Campagnolo Record Carbon.
-Crankset: 2006ish Campagnolo Record Carbon 175 with 53/39.
-Front Derailleur: 2006ish Campagnolo Chorus with 34.9 Derailleur Clamp.
-Rear Derailleur: 2010 SRAM Red (I told you it was a Frankenbike).
-Rear Cassette: 2010 Shimano Dura Ace 7900 11/25 (see note above).
-Chain: Cobbled together from various SRAM 10 Speed left overs ("it's alive") .
-Cables: 2010 Campagnolo Ultra Shift. 
-Seat Clamp: Mt Zoom 9 gram 34.9 (off ebay).
-Wheels: Topolino C19.
-Rim Tape: Veloplugs.
-Tubes: Ultra(frickin)lite ones from Performance Bike.
-Tires: Vittoria Rubino Pro.
-Bottle Cages: Mt Zoom at 11grams each with Aluminum Bolts.
-Pedals: 2009 Look Keo Ti.
-Brake Calipers: 2002ish BrewLite with Beadblasted Aluminum Finish ( http://www.brewracingframes.com/id25.htm ). Long before Zero G was in vogue.
-Wheel Skewers: KCNC Ti.
-Handlebar Tap: Pro.
-Headset Spacers: Carbon.
-Headset Cap: Campagnolo Record Carbon with Aluminium Bolt.
I really like how she rides and she looks pretty sweet...very stealthy. She is a little flexy in the front triangle compared to my other carbon bikes, which include my Treks (2006 5.2 Madone SL, 2005 5.9 Madone, and 2003 5500), my 2007 carbon lugged Bianchi 928, my Ridleys (2010 Damocles and 2007 Excalibur), my 2006 Flyte SRS-1, and my 2010 HongFu FM015, but not so much as to be annoying (I am trying to be critical). She is more on par with my bikes with aluminum front triangles such as my 2007 Masi Gran Criterium and my 2005 Salsa Campeon. I am thinking the flex may be due to the relatively tall head tube on the FM028 and before you ask; I have tried several sets of wheels to include Mavic Ksyriums (SL and ES configured for tubeless) and Campagnolo Shamals (also tubeless) to determine if wheels might be to blame for the flex...not the case. The rear is definitely stiff enough and I have not had any drivetrain issues such as ghost shifts. She is light so of course she climbs well. (I have lots of hills and mountains where I live.) The bike is compliant enough so she is comfortable on 60+ mile rides. The fit and finish were plenty good, but not 'oh my god' excellent. I wish they would have internally routed the derailleur cables, but now I am just being picky. Overall I really like this bike and I will be putting her in the rotation for years to come. I suck at taking pictures :blush2: and I really need to get a new camera so please don't hate on me for my lack of photo savvy  .
Very respectfully, Tim


----------



## mrbubbles

Campag with Sram rd and Shimano cassettes?

How's the shifting?


----------



## mrwirey

mrbubbles said:


> Campag with Sram rd and Shimano cassettes?
> 
> How's the shifting?


Mrbubbles,
The shifting is flawless. See Leonard Zinn's article,"Can you run Campy shifters with a SRAM drivetrain? Sure, why not?" at http://velonews.competitor.com/2008...ers-with-a-sram-drivetrain-sure-why-not_73404 
... That is where I got the idea and if it good enough for Herr Zinn...hell, he wrote the book!
Very respectfully, Tim


----------



## timed

jet sanchEz said:


> Did you order them as complete wheels or were they built for you? Where on the web did you find them? Thanks.


I've laced up those my self. I gave the factory a phone-call and ordered, was 4 months ago i ordered so I don't remember where i found the contact info.


----------



## Jacobite

timed said:


> my build,
> 
> fm028, super record 2011 ergoshifters and derailleurs, kcnc c7, AX-lightness morpheus cranks on the way, 920g wheels with lowprofile carbon rims and tune mig70/mag180 hubs, alligator i-link/i-link minis.
> 
> going to be below 5,9kg complete incl pedals with margin, the only part i'm missing is the cranks.


I have just ordered an FM028, would love to see some more pics in the light of day... even if incomplete!? Is that a 56?


----------



## mrwirey

*My FM015*

My FM015 is the oppostie of my FM028. It is much flashier than stealthy. It has a complete 2010 Campagnolo Chorus group vice a Frankengroup. I like how they both turned out and really do not favor one over the other. She weighs in at 15.45lbs as pictured with everything minus water bottles. (Please excuse the date stamp on the photo as it is inaccurate...I took it today).
The build:
-Hongfu FM015, 58cm, Uniddirectional Finish with Clear Coat and BB30 BB: around $500 total price delivered to AZ (can't recall exact price and too lazy to hunt it down right now).
-Headset: Hongfu (price included in total).
-Seatpost: Hongfu 3k weave (price included in total).
-Saddle: Specialized Body Geometry with Ti Rails.
-Stem: Ritchey WCS 31.8 x 110mm.
-Handlebar: Ritchey WCS 31.8 x 42cm.
-Shifters: 2010 Campagnolo Chorus 11 Speed.
-Bottom Bracket: 2010 Campagnolo Chorus 11 Speed BB30 Cups.
-Crankset: 2010 Campagnolo Chorus 11 Speed 172.5 with 34/50 Compact.
-Front Derailleur: 2010 Campagnolo Chorus 11 Speed with 34.9 Derailleur Clamp.
-Rear Derailleur: 2010 Campagnolo Chorus 11 Speed.
-Rear Cassette: 2010 Campagnolo Chorus 11 Speed 11/25.
-Chain: 2010 Campagnolo Chorus 11 Speed.
-Cables: 2010 Campagnolo Ultra Shift (derailleur); Nokon (brake). 
-Seat Clamp: KCNC 34.9 (off ebay).
-Wheels: Mavic Ksyrium ES.
-Rim Tape: None.
-Tubes: Michelin.
-Tires: Continental.
-Bottle Cages: Weyless Aluminum/Carbon.
-Pedals: 2010 Look Keo Ti Blade.
-Brake Calipers: 2010 Campagnolo Chorus 11 Speed.
-Wheel Skewers: KCNC Ti.
-Handlebar Tap: Fizik.
-Headset Spacers: KCNC Hollow Aluminum.
-Headset Cap: Token with Ti Bolt.
I really like how she rides and she looks pretty sweet. She has a pretty solid front triangle and feels lively in a sprint. She is on par with my Ridley Damocles with regard to ride quality. I often hear people state that the Damocles is a tad harsh, but I run tubeless tires, which take the harshness out of any bike so maybe that is the equalizer between the Ridley and the FM015. She is reasonably light so of course she climbs well. (I have lots of hills and mountains where I live.) She is compliant enough so she is comfortable on 60+ mile rides. The fit and finish were plenty good and the UD finish looks really cool in certain light. Like my FM028 her finish is not 'oh my god' excellent. I enjoy this bike as much as my FM028, but for different reasons: Flash vice Stealth. Same caveat for my FM028 post: I suck at taking pictures and I really need to get a new camera so please don't hate on me for my lack of photo savvy .
Very respectfully, Tim


----------



## timed

Jacobite said:


> I have just ordered an FM028, would love to see some more pics in the light of day... even if incomplete!? Is that a 56?


it's a 58, i can arrange some better pictures tomorrow or so.


----------



## Guymk

Sweet fm015, I probably will be building one up sometime this winter, can't wait!


----------



## ckibbe

*Headset FM-015*

OK, my FM-015 is on it's way. Unfortunately I did not discover this forum till after it shipped and didn't realize I could have bought a head set directly from them. I want to order a headset now so it comes in before the frame does. I know it's a threadless 1-1/8 x 1-1/2 but what other specs do I need to meet to make sure I get the right one? I see from some of these posts that people have a little trouble with the headsets fitting. I also saw something abotu a "Campagnolo Spec". Is this what I need to look for? 

Thanks in advance!


----------



## ckibbe

ckibbe said:


> OK, my FM-015 is on it's way. Unfortunately I did not discover this forum till after it shipped and didn't realize I could have bought a head set directly from them. I want to order a headset now so it comes in before the frame does. I know it's a threadless 1-1/8 x 1-1/2 but what other specs do I need to meet to make sure I get the right one? I see from some of these posts that people have a little trouble with the headsets fitting. I also saw something abotu a "Campagnolo Spec". Is this what I need to look for?
> 
> Thanks in advance!


Also I was going to buy a FSA or Cane Creek. If anyone knows the exact part number to order that would be even better.


----------



## timed

Jacobite said:


> I have just ordered an FM028, would love to see some more pics in the light of day... even if incomplete!? Is that a 56?


----------



## NiklasUK

Code:


Size			1''1/8
Stack Upper		8.75	
Height Lower		1.5	
Headtube Dia		42
Bearing Dia 		41.8
Top bearing Angle 	45
Bottom bearing Angle 	45

I think this should be the right cane creek spec:
http://www.canecreek.com/component-...2-IS&topSize=1-1-8-IS&topProduct=tapered-IS-3


----------



## Jetmugg

OK - I think I'm catching the Chinese carbon frame fever, in a slightly different set of symptoms. I'm dreaming of building a cyclocross bike for my wife based on one of these frames (it appears that the HF-fm022 is the only 'cross frame listed with a price). Has anyone built one of these frames for a 'cross application? Right now, I'm looking at HongFu's site, based on positive endorsements from this site.

I know that once I start talking to "Jenny", or whoever the contact person is, it will be a short path to spending money. That's just me, once I start digging into something, I'm buying before very long. I'm trying to do as much research as possible before jumping in.

I see that there are other 'cross frames listed at HongFu's site, but none with prices attached, only the $545 "full carbon" fm022. I can't quite tell if this is a copy of another commonly available frame or not. If so, can anyone identify the original source design?

I think I would try to buy as much as possible from HongFu, and add the rest from my collection of parts, adding as necessary to get the complete build.

With respect to paint options, is that something that is spec'ed and quoted on an individual basis through HongFu? - I'm thinking in terms of a plain single color for the frame. What is a typical price for a paint job?

Anyway, this thread is great and quite inspiring. Any advice would be appreciated, especially with respect to any of the available Chinese cyclocross styled frames.

SteveM.


----------



## timed

there is a fm021 available at hongfu as well, the fm020 is out of production/stock as i was informed.

the fm021 have a 520usd price tag.


----------



## zender

I think the 022 is the only road frame I've seen from these guys with canti brake bosses. The Fm021 is a TT frame, wouldn't the steeper seat tube angle be counterproductive to CX? Must the rear brake be canti for 'cross? You could source a fork from elsewhere with brake bosses and then use a caliper brake on the rear with whatever frame you like.

On a totally unrelated noted, I passed a guy on a climb riding what I thought was the FM015 zigzag84 posted about 3 pages back -except without as much white. In fact, I was going to ask him if he bought it from China. As I stared a bit longer, I noticed a very small, subtle black TREK logo on the black downtube and all Bontrager bits. Not sure what year/model Madone it was (nor do I really care). But, I decided not to ask him if he got it from Dengfu


----------



## Safeway

The new Madones look a lot like the FM015. New meaning from about 2007 on to the new 2011 bikes.


----------



## Jetmugg

The rear canti's (or disks) are pretty much necessary for a 'cross bike, due to the tire size and needed mud clearance. It is technically possible to use an older center-pull caliper or U-brake, but you don't see them very often.

I already have an unused set of canti's sitting in my spare parts box, so I'd hate to see them go to waste.

My wife wants a pink/purple paint job on her next bike. Even though she told me not to spend the money, I'm sorely tempted to buy a custom painted fm022 and build it into a 'cross machine.


----------



## adam_mac84

Safeway said:


> The new Madones look a lot like the FM015. New meaning from about 2007 on to the new 2011 bikes.


 FM208 is nearly identical to Madone H2 (at least in the 60cm size)


----------



## adam_mac84

Mr Wirey, you state that your FM028 had some flex in the front triangle... Where/when is it that this is detected? My current only ride is a motobecane 64cm Cyclocross bike. Without having any history on a 'stiff' bike, i would say that it is definatly on the flexy side. Could you elaborate on 'front triangle flex'

thanks

I am placing my FM028 order after i find my groupset on fleabay for the appropriate price, otherwise i will be going with a BD bike


----------



## mrwirey

*Things front triangle*



adam_mac84 said:


> Mr Wirey, you state that your FM028 had some flex in the front triangle... Where/when is it that this is detected? My current only ride is a motobecane 64cm Cyclocross bike. Without having any history on a 'stiff' bike, i would say that it is definatly on the flexy side. Could you elaborate on 'front triangle flex'
> 
> thanks
> 
> I am placing my FM028 order after i find my groupset on fleabay for the appropriate price, otherwise i will be going with a BD bike


adam_mac84,
64cm....Wow! You must be very tall. I purchased a 56cm Motobecane Le Champion a few years ago from Bikes Direct so I could cannibalize the Campy Record groupset. I built the frame up as a single speed and still use it to this day. I only mention this because that Motobecane (aluminum mind you) had a very short head tube and a very relaxed seat tube...European dare I say. That bike has a fairly stiff front triangle. 
I can feel the flex in my FM028 primarily when sprinting while seated or pushing big gears under load. It is not really noticeable when sprinting while standing or spinning. I am sure I would not notice the flex if I didn't have other bikes to compare it to, but I do. I hope my critique does not deter you from purchasing the FM028 as it really is a very good frame and I would purchase another in a heartbeat. I really like the matte black finish on mine.  
I wish you the best of luck with your build and I hope you post pictures. With regard to groups: I will concede that SRAM can't be beat for price and weight, but Campy has soul!!!!  
Very respectfully, Tim


----------



## ZeroSum

I'm trying to buy a frame but not having much luck unfortunately. 

I've contacted four different suppliers about three different frames and so far no-one has my size in stock. Just wondering if this is normal or if I'm just unlucky? It almost feels as though they are either making the frames to order or waiting until they have enough orders and then producing them.


----------



## ZeroSum

I'm trying to buy a frame but not having much luck unfortunately. 

I've contacted four different suppliers about three different frames and so far no-one has my size in stock. Just wondering if this is normal or if I'm just unlucky? It almost feels as though they are either making the frames to order or waiting until they have enough orders and then producing them.


----------



## MrPerkles

My Greetkeen Prince copy arrived today,I was nervous from bad feedback on here but it is good quality,arrived on time and the communication was spot on through out the deal. :thumbsup: 
I plan to spray it myself just need to decide a colour scheme,I will post some pictures when its done


----------



## cfred84

My frame from Dengfu arrived today too!! Nicely packaged and all.
Whole process took about 3 weeks in total. 
2 weeks lead up time as they did not have the frame in size. Shipping took 3 days!!

Put on a rear wheel and it was pretty much centered.
So far so good with everything!!
Communications with Mina on MSN was excellant throughout the wait time and all.
Paint job was not perfect but good enough (8.5/10). Will get some decals from the people recommended earlier in the thread
Assembling it with a 7800 groupset bought off eBay! Highly recommend Dengfu Sports!! :thumbsup:


----------



## Safeway

Anyone realize that 88bikefun is no longer selling on eBay?

But now look up Motorcycle_cover88. Same stuff and an 88bikefun watermark on all the images. He sent me an email from [email protected] and invoice from:

Liu Qiyong
[email protected]

Anyone know if this is 88bikefun?


----------



## IRMB

ZeroSum said:


> I'm trying to buy a frame but not having much luck unfortunately.
> 
> I've contacted four different suppliers about three different frames and so far no-one has my size in stock. Just wondering if this is normal or if I'm just unlucky? It almost feels as though they are either making the frames to order or waiting until they have enough orders and then producing them.


what size are you looking for?

I have had a size 61 rfm 002 on order from greatkeen for the past several months. It should be here any day.

For peeps looking for larger sizes - this *might* be an option. I'll post pics and write up when it's here.


----------



## Safeway

Here is an example of motorcycle_cover88's posts on eBay:

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dl...sPageName=ADME:B:WNAFP:US:1123#ht_1301wt_1139


----------



## Safeway

Here is an example of motorcycle_cover88's posts on eBay:

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=260675225966

Here is one with the "88bikefun" watermark on the image:

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=260675226048


----------



## nealric

> My frame from Dengfu arrived today too!! Nicely packaged and all.
> Whole process took about 3 weeks in total.
> 2 weeks lead up time as they did not have the frame in size. Shipping took 3 days!!


Just out of curiosity- 

How much did they charge for the paint job, and how did you specify the coloring?


----------



## Jetmugg

Great looking paint job. My desire for a Chinese carbon frame is growing more intense, but I'm still learning/researching. My wife wants something with purples/pinks, I think that DengFu would be a good starting point for a paint design. Is this your own design, or does DengFu have some standard paint layouts to select from?

Also, is there a listing of DengFu's pricing for the various products? I know that HongFu has their own site to buy direct. I couldn't find such information for DengFu, and I'm wondering if such a site exists, or do I need to email to inquire about individual parts?

SteveM.


----------



## cfred84

nealric said:


> Just out of curiosity-
> 
> How much did they charge for the paint job, and how did you specify the coloring?


I based the paintjob on the FM015 paint scheme available from Dengfu Website.
http://dengfu.en.alibaba.com/produc...oad_frame_set_carbon_bicycle_frame_55_cm.html
Juz dat I swopped the colours and specified what I wanted. Can make ur own also but might be more $ if complicated
Only made very slight changes to the original scheme using ancient MS Paint!

I would have edited more if i had the skill and knowledge. Unfortunately not.
The frame + fork went for $340 and the paint job another $45 i believe
I was quoted $80 for adding decals depending on how simple/tough the design is
Quality wise as mentioned not SUPER but flaws are minor and only visible on close inspection. Im satisfied.
For $45 cant ask for too much more!! Hope that helps. Cheers


----------



## asherstash1

mr perkles, that is exactly the post a man with £370 in china wants to see! my 54cm 3k prince clone should be here about 10 days from now, fingers crossed. also, as you said there had been some negative feedback on here but my experience, from my first tentative enquiries through to my order, has been entirely positive, and much better than several othe companys in this thread. i just hope it gets here in one piece now!


----------



## nealric

> I based the paintjob on the FM015 paint scheme available from Dengfu Website.
> http://dengfu.en.alibaba.com/product...e_55_cm.h tml
> Juz dat I swopped the colours and specified what I wanted. Can make ur own also but might be more $ if complicated
> Only made very slight changes to the original scheme using ancient MS Paint!


Nice.


----------



## MrPerkles

asherstash1 said:


> mr perkles, that is exactly the post a man with £370 in china wants to see! my 54cm 3k prince clone should be here about 10 days from now, fingers crossed. also, as you said there had been some negative feedback on here but my experience, from my first tentative enquiries through to my order, has been entirely positive, and much better than several othe companys in this thread. i just hope it gets here in one piece now!


ok being honest the paint is crap and thats what lets them down,if people who buy these expect a Pinarrello type finish look elsewhere.I think this is why they have had some bad press but for the money you have to look beyond the paint, or paint it yourself as good as the Italians


----------



## asherstash1

yeah mines just clearcoated and thats fine by me, these companys allow me to have a gorgeous CF bike to build up as and when, i have no way to get this sort of product (except dubious used) any other way! people who go on about dodgy chinese this and that are generally (i suspect) the guys with 6 CF and Ti bikes just sat in their garage just gathering dust - all with warrantys though


----------



## ColoRoadie

When I bought my dengfu FM027, I did it from HERE

No complaints...bike landed on my door step 5 days after I paypal'd them....two of which were saturday and sunday. Amazing shipping speed. He told me I could add 10 days for a custom paint job, but I decided to paint it myself.


----------



## MrPerkles

asherstash1 said:


> yeah mines just clearcoated and thats fine by me, these companys allow me to have a gorgeous CF bike to build up as and when, i have no way to get this sort of product (except dubious used) any other way! people who go on about dodgy chinese this and that are generally (i suspect) the guys with 6 CF and Ti bikes just sat in their garage just gathering dust - all with warrantys though


im with you,mines going to get used and abused hopefully in some races next season :thumbsup:


----------



## adam_mac84

cfred84 said:


> My frame from Dengfu arrived today too!! Nicely packaged and all.
> Whole process took about 3 weeks in total.
> 2 weeks lead up time as they did not have the frame in size. Shipping took 3 days!!
> 
> Put on a rear wheel and it was pretty much centered.
> So far so good with everything!!
> Communications with Mina on MSN was excellant throughout the wait time and all.
> Paint job was not perfect but good enough (8.5/10). Will get some decals from the people recommended earlier in the thread
> Assembling it with a 7800 groupset bought off eBay! Highly recommend Dengfu Sports!! :thumbsup:



I am glad to see someone else dealing with Mina and Dengfu. I am placing my order this week hopefully. Do they have 'stock' paint jobs, or did you design yours yourself?


----------



## cfred84

adam_mac84 said:


> I am glad to see someone else dealing with Mina and Dengfu. I am placing my order this week hopefully. Do they have 'stock' paint jobs, or did you design yours yourself?


They do have stock paint jobs as i replied to another query earlier in this page
You can specify the colour you want. Colours can be chosen from a colour pallette and then you tell her the shade or details
Custom paint job is also possible. Showed her the Orbea Diva but probably more $$


----------



## cfred84

Jetmugg said:


> Great looking paint job. My desire for a Chinese carbon frame is growing more intense, but I'm still learning/researching. My wife wants something with purples/pinks, I think that DengFu would be a good starting point for a paint design. Is this your own design, or does DengFu have some standard paint layouts to select from?
> 
> Also, is there a listing of DengFu's pricing for the various products? I know that HongFu has their own site to buy direct. I couldn't find such information for DengFu, and I'm wondering if such a site exists, or do I need to email to inquire about individual parts?
> 
> SteveM.


Can take a look at their website and make an enquiry there or through email.
Else the easier way will be to MSN with Mina and ask all you want. 
Email can be quite a hassle i find and takes awhile for them to reply.
She's quite easy to work with and her English is better than decent!

MSN: [email protected]


----------



## tdawg183

Hope this hasn't already been answered, I didn't see it but why can't I open the old china carbon frame threads when I'm logged in? Only when I'm logged out. It makes it pretty difficult to search that way. ha.


----------



## snippy

Having trouble deciding between FM015 and FM028

The FM028 sizing looks better for me, but I'm concerned about ride too. I'm coming from an old Cannondale Crit series, so I guess anything is going to be more comfortable.

I will be racing on it, so, from comments I've read, that seems to lean toward the FM015. Am I correct in concluding that it's more stiff and aggressive?

Thanks! - Jon


----------



## skyline377

MrPerkles said:


> My Greetkeen Prince copy arrived today,I was nervous from bad feedback on here but it is good quality,arrived on time and the communication was spot on through out the deal. :thumbsup:
> I plan to spray it myself just need to decide a colour scheme,I will post some pictures when its done



Is it cheaper for the unpainted version. I emailed them about the painted one and it was a little over $500.


----------



## WheresWaldo

tdawg183 said:


> Hope this hasn't already been answered, I didn't see it but why can't I open the old china carbon frame threads when I'm logged in? Only when I'm logged out. It makes it pretty difficult to search that way. ha.


This is one of the stupid forum defaults!

Go to a thread you can open then in the upper right select *Display Modes >> Linear Mode* after that you will be able to open any thread that exceeds 1000 posts.


----------



## mrwirey

snippy said:


> Having trouble deciding between FM015 and FM028
> 
> The FM028 sizing looks better for me, but I'm concerned about ride too. I'm coming from an old Cannondale Crit series, so I guess anything is going to be more comfortable.
> 
> I will be racing on it, so, from comments I've read, that seems to lean toward the FM015. Am I correct in concluding that it's more stiff and aggressive?
> 
> Thanks! - Jon


Jon,
Hello. I have a maroon Cannondale R900 that I purchased in Heidelberg, Germany in 1995 while I was working in Strasbourg, France. The only thing stock left on her is the frame, the cable guide under the bottom bracket, and the cable stops on the downtube. She has a Dura Ace 7800 group, Cervelo 'Wolf' full carbon fork, Ksyrium wheels, yada yada yada. She weighs 17.15 pounds ready to ride minus water bottles. I can't bring myself to part with her for nostalgic reasons although I rarely ride her. Now back to the FM015 vs FM028. Bottom Line: The stack and reach on my 58cm FM015 and my 56cm FM028 are almost identical.,,,close enough for gov't work anyway. My FM015 is stiffer than my FM028, but not harsher. I don't think you can really go wrong with either of them, but I think the FM015 would be my choice as a race bike. I do really like the look of the FM028 though... 
Very respectfully, Tim


----------



## IRMB

*Rfm201*



mrwirey said:


> Jon,
> Hello. I have a maroon Cannondale R900 that I purchased in Heidelberg, Germany in 1995 while I was working in Strasbourg, France. The only thing stock left on her is the frame, the cable guide under the bottom bracket, and the cable stops on the downtube. She has a Dura Ace 7800 group, Cervelo 'Wolf' full carbon fork, Ksyrium wheels, yada yada yada. She weighs 17.15 pounds ready to ride minus water bottles. I can't bring myself to part with her for nostalgic reasons although I rarely ride her. Now back to the FM015 vs FM028. Bottom Line: The stack and reach on my 58cm FM015 and my 56cm FM028 are almost identical.,,,close enough for gov't work anyway. My FM015 is stiffer than my FM028, but not harsher. I don't think you can really go wrong with either of them, but I think the FM015 would be my choice as a race bike. I do really like the look of the FM028 though...
> Very respectfully, Tim


I just received my 61cm RFM201 from greatkeen
https://www.greatkeenbike.com/main/home/cp_detail.php?id=96&nowmenuid=12&cpath=0009:&catid=0

For those looking for large frames - here's an option. 

Fit and finish looks good. They messed up the paint on the fork (I asked for UD carbon, with clear coat only, NOT 3T):mad2: 

The seat post looks good, with a highly sculpted clamp, good finish and very light. I haven't weighed anything yet, though.


----------



## Urb

I don't know if it's just the picture but the paint on the fork looks aweful. the rest of the frame looks ok. Not great, just ok. The clear coated seat post looks good though. Once again could just be the picture.

Of all the far east suppliers greatkeenbike is the one I'm most leary of however I'm looking foward to pics of a completed build.


----------



## IRMB

Urb said:


> I don't know if it's just the picture but the paint on the fork looks aweful. the rest of the frame looks ok. Not great, just ok. The clear coated seat post looks good though. Once again could just be the picture.
> 
> Of all the far east suppliers greatkeenbike is the one I'm most leary of however I'm looking foward to pics of a completed build.


The paint (clear coat) is actually pretty good. The 3T paint is crap. I'm going to try and repaint it myself.

There is only one small blemish, so small it wouldn't show in pics, even in macro mode.

I wanted the UD finish, and like what I see - but UD may not be for everyone.

-edit- the main reason I ordered from greatkeen and this frame in particular is I needed something between a 60 and 61. These are super hard to come by. It was a special order and not an off the shelf frame. It took a good 60 days to get it.

For those having trouble finding big frames - this is an option.


----------



## FTR

Urb said:


> I don't know if it's just the picture but the paint on the fork looks aweful. the rest of the frame looks ok. Not great, just ok. The clear coated seat post looks good though. Once again could just be the picture.
> 
> Of all the far east suppliers greatkeenbike is the one I'm most leary of however I'm looking foward to pics of a completed build.


Well I have a UD carbon Santa Cruz Tallboy MTB and it looks exactly the same as I am seeing on that frame.
This is a high end MTB.
I have said it before and will say it again. Most CF bikes would look similar quality to these China frames if they were not painted.


----------



## ultraman6970

The fork is an easy fix, just sand it over like with 400 grit wet sand paper then move like a 1000/2000 grit and clear again, done. I would suggest you to sand the whole fork because if you re clear only the sanded parts the new clear wont good in the places the fork hasnt been sanded. From clear to clear w/o sanding looks dull.

ps: polyurethane clear coat with activator.


----------



## IRMB

ultraman6970 said:


> The fork is an easy fix, just sand it over like with 400 grit wet sand paper then move like a 1000/2000 grit and clear again, done. I would suggest you to sand the whole fork because if you re clear only the sanded parts the new clear wont good in the places the fork hasnt been sanded. From clear to clear w/o sanding looks dull.


What kind of clear coat?

I just painted another frame of mine and it didn't turn out well at all.


----------



## ultraman6970

Clear is pretty tricky to shoot, more than regular sprain paint. The issue with all the clear coat that comes in the carbon fiber bikes is that it is polyurethane, just like a car paint. Thats the clear coat that you have to use, i forgot to add it in my previous posting.

So far i can tell u have big problems in that paint job, i must confess that my painting skiils are way from being perfect, i have painted some stuff over and over, tested a lot but sadly i don't have the talent for painting, sadly i know how to do this very well but i simply sucks as a painter hehehe

I can tell u have big problems with the paint job (or clear?). So far i can tell u have a lot of thin coats and heavy coast mixed (pain not even,) some orange peel also. Besides black is the hardest color to shot because if the primer is not done right and the surface is not perfect the black will bring all the imperfections up to the paint job and will look like [email protected] If the black is not right the clear will look bad, specially if you shot it wrong. Always u can sand the clear to get it even then u have to polish it, but if u used rattle can i doubt you will get good results anyways.

What type of paint did u use? rattle can from home depot? Did you primer? I guess you clear coated also right?


----------



## IRMB

ultraman6970 said:


> Clear is pretty tricky to shoot, more than regular sprain paint. The issue with all the clear coat that comes in the carbon fiber bikes is that it is polyurethane, just like a car paint. Thats the clear coat that you have to use, i forgot to add it in my previous posting.
> 
> So far i can tell u have big problems in that paint job, i must confess that my painting skiils are way from being perfect, i have painted some stuff over and over, tested a lot but sadly i don't have the talent for painting, sadly i know how to do this very well but i simply sucks as a painter hehehe
> 
> I can tell u have big problems with the paint job (or clear?). So far i can tell u have a lot of thin coats and heavy coast mixed (pain not even,) some orange peel also. Besides black is the hardest color to shot because if the primer is not done right and the surface is not perfect the black will bring all the imperfections up to the paint job and will look like [email protected] If the black is not right the clear will look bad, specially if you shot it wrong. Always u can sand the clear to get it even then u have to polish it, but if u used rattle can i doubt you will get good results anyways.
> 
> What type of paint did u use? rattle can from home depot? Did you primer? I guess you clear coated also right?


I used Rustoleum Enamel spray primer, paint and clear coat.

You're saying use polyurethane?

It did all sorts of bad stuff. I'll look for poly-u if that's what you think.

Thanks!


----------



## Urb

You should know there is a difference between urethane clear from a can and the urethane they spray on cars. The stuff they spray on cars has a hardener in it that they add just before spraying. Back in the day I was a licensed automotive painter.


----------



## IRMB

Urb said:


> You should know there is a difference between urethane clear from a can and the urethane they spray on cars. The stuff they spray on cars has a hardener in it that they add just before spraying. Back in the day I was a licensed automotive painter.


So, there's a difference - but is one preferred for the job at hand?


----------



## ultraman6970

That paint it is ok but takes like 6 months to fully cure in a bike, for sure the paint started chipping already.

Yes polyurethane, car paint, is the only thing that will do it right the 1st time, or will look better than the rustoleum and will last way longer.

Do you need details of how to paint?


----------



## ultraman6970

Agree with urb, anyways u can get 2k polyurethane clear in a can with a hardener.

http://www.repaintsupply.com/pd_2_part_2k_aerosol.cfm

The other option is U-pol #1 clear coat, that is a urethane clear, it dry super fast and has UV protection, the good about this can is that u can store it, the 2k one with the activator u can not because it last 48 hours, after that u have to dump it.

In cans i have used dupont dyson or something like that, it comes in quarts with a small activator. This is good stuff, levels really well. Even some runs I got were almost gone after 30 minutes, the sanding was minimum compared with other stuff.


----------



## ultraman6970

IRMB said:


> So, there's a difference - but is one preferred for the job at hand?


In my experience as long as u are using urethane clear u are ok, i have gotten ppg base coat with u-pol w/o any issues but i always wait 1 day or two to clear so the paint is well dry (not cured, dry and cured are two different things), I have even put tamiya clear coat over ppg, tamiya is water base acrylic so technically is not an issue.

The only combination in my experience that is always a disaster is rattle can clear like the rustoleum over an Pol-u type of car paint, The reason is that the rustoleum paint is a lacquer and lacquers are hot paints, pol-u paints are not hot, so the hot paint will eat the car paint, the paint starts to wrinkle big time, not fan because u have to start all over again 

If you paint pol-u over lacquer it should not be a problem but who knows lacquer is a PITA in my experience, is simpler but if something happens it sucks. Never been able to get a descent test using lacquer.

For the people who wants to clear decals, the issue because decals in old bikes are not cleared is because the clear and the decals dry to a different rates, and the decals simply wrinkles, times have changes, materials changed so looks like this is not a problem no more.

Cheers


----------



## zigzag84

This is mine with new stickers  FM015 by Zigzag


----------



## aikendrum

Nice Work ZigZag - Details please - Is this a HongFu standard 'Sample' http://www.hongfu-bikes.com/Products.asp?Id=423 Paint job with Decals from the designstickers.blogspot.com????


----------



## 5thdisciple

Nice bike! where did u get your carbon saddle from? Does it have carbon rails? if so how did you fit it on the seatpost?


----------



## zigzag84

aikendrum said:


> Nice Work ZigZag - Details please - Is this a HongFu standard 'Sample' http://www.hongfu-bikes.com/Products.asp?Id=423 Paint job with Decals from the designstickers.blogspot.com????


Yes it's the same that Hongfu ... I buy this mine Miracle Compagy FM015

Miracle paint Job + stickers ( French Stickers ) :thumbsup: 

Excellent buisness whith Jack Chen of Miracle. Excellent communication ! Top :thumbsup:


----------



## zigzag84

5thdisciple said:


> Nice bike! where did u get your carbon saddle from? Does it have carbon rails? if so how did you fit it on the seatpost?


Saddle is a CORIMA ( CORIMA)

Excellent French Compagny working the carbon ...

Carbon rails : yes

I fit it on my seatpost normaly ... No very special ...


----------



## CyKlo

*Pulling the Trigger - Help Please*

Like many, I have been researching this subject for weeks now on these forums. 
I am 5'11" - 190 lbs. and currently ride an XL Giant OCR1 with Shimano 105 etc.
I have narrowed it down to
- Jenny @HongFU and Mina @DengFu - both have been very responsive with inquiries 24/hr max.
- Looking at FM015 and FM001 in 58cm and want the flat black matte paint finish. I am going to transfer the Shimano 105 group over for now until I can purchase better/lighter pkg.
Any feedback on this goal from personal experience would be appreciated.
- Problems I may encounter?
- what headset will I need if I can't use current Giant one?
- how do I know what BB set up to order with the frame so current crank works etc.? educate me on Englisg BB, threaded/non threaded, BB30?

Thank you for any assistance!!


----------



## velomateo

CyKlo said:


> Like many, I have been researching this subject for weeks now on these forums.
> I am 5'11" - 190 lbs. and currently ride an XL Giant OCR1 with Shimano 105 etc.
> I have narrowed it down to
> - Jenny @HongFU and Mina @DengFu - both have been very responsive with inquiries 24/hr max.
> - Looking at FM015 and FM001 in 58cm and want the flat black matte paint finish. I am going to transfer the Shimano 105 group over for now until I can purchase better/lighter pkg.
> Any feedback on this goal from personal experience would be appreciated.
> - Problems I may encounter?
> - what headset will I need if I can't use current Giant one?
> - how do I know what BB set up to order with the frame so current crank works etc.? educate me on Englisg BB, threaded/non threaded, BB30?
> 
> Thank you for any assistance!!


The bottom bracket is English (68mm). The bottom bracket and crank set up that you have on your Giant should transfer over to the new frame. On my FM-015, I used the headset that HongFu sells and I have no complaints. It's well made and works just fine and installation was easy. You could buy something a little lighter, but you will pay a lot more than the $15 than HongFu charges.


----------



## ClarkinHawaii

velomateo said:


> The bottom bracket is English (68mm). The bottom bracket and crank set up that you have on your Giant should transfer over to the new frame. On my FM-015, I used the headset that HongFu sells and I have no complaints. It's well made and works just fine and installation was easy. You could buy something a little lighter, but you will pay a lot more than the $15 than HongFu charges.


I agree with all of this. I bought FM001 from HongFu and it's great. Whoever you buy from, make sure you get the frame, fork, and headset from the same place to avoid incompatibility problems. My 105 drivetrain transferred off old bike to 001 no problems.


----------



## cww180

Has anyone tried the RF035 frame?


----------



## Urb

cww180 said:


> Has anyone tried the RF035 frame?


Link for a point of reference?


----------



## thefutureofamerica

Link?


----------



## CyKlo

Velomateo,
You're awesome, thanks! 
I am wondering something...Mina at DengFu quoted me exactly $80 less for the same FM-015 and fork than Jenny at HongFu. Also, Mina said they have them in stock ready to go and Jenny said 80 working days from receipt of payment. There is a $10 difference in shipping so total delta of $70. Is there any reason you or anyone else knows why I shouldn't go for the same frame for less money delivered at least 2 months quicker? 

Thanks again - very helpful!


----------



## lobo

CyKlo said:


> Like many, I have been researching this subject for weeks now on these forums.
> I am 5'11" - 190 lbs. and currently ride an XL Giant OCR1 with Shimano 105 etc.
> I have narrowed it down to
> - Jenny @HongFU and Mina @DengFu - both have been very responsive with inquiries 24/hr max.
> - Looking at FM015 and FM001 in 58cm and want the flat black matte paint finish. I am going to transfer the Shimano 105 group over for now until I can purchase better/lighter pkg.
> Any feedback on this goal from personal experience would be appreciated.
> - Problems I may encounter?
> - what headset will I need if I can't use current Giant one?
> - how do I know what BB set up to order with the frame so current crank works etc.? educate me on Englisg BB, threaded/non threaded, BB30?
> 
> Thank you for any assistance!!


I also jumped from OCR to fm015. New frame fits me better but fitting procedure took 3 months of changing bar&stem combos, seats and cranks - now all works great but you should expect same rute. On my OCR I had full DA gruppo, functionaly that is the same as 105 so no problems there. Take care when choosing fm015 size, it has shorter top tube and head tube then OCR, proper top tube length should be leading factor.


----------



## CyKlo

ClarkinHawaii said:


> I agree with all of this. I bought FM001 from HongFu and it's great. Whoever you buy from, make sure you get the frame, fork, and headset from the same place to avoid incompatibility problems. My 105 drivetrain transferred off old bike to 001 no problems.


Clark,
I am seriously considering the FM001. I do like the design/geometry and it is also less expensive. Also, someone else just responded that they went from an OCR1 and to take care when ordering a size for the FM015. What did you transfer from - model, size etc. and how does the FM001 compare?


----------



## karlo

CyKlo said:


> Velomateo,
> You're awesome, thanks!
> I am wondering something...Mina at DengFu quoted me exactly $80 less for the same FM-015 and fork than Jenny at HongFu. Also, Mina said they have them in stock ready to go and Jenny said 80 working days from receipt of payment. There is a $10 difference in shipping so total delta of $70. Is there any reason you or anyone else knows why I shouldn't go for the same frame for less money delivered at least 2 months quicker?
> 
> Thanks again - very helpful!


I ordered mine from DengFu (Tony & Mina) and was able to save some money,

- Placed order on Wednesday
- Matte Clearcoated by Friday
- Shipped Monday
- Arrived Thursday


----------



## CyKlo

karlo said:


> I ordered mine from DengFu (Tony & Mina) and was able to save some money,
> 
> - Placed order on Wednesday
> - Matte Clearcoated by Friday
> - Shipped Monday
> - Arrived Thursday


Karlo,
How long ago? What model did you get? Did you get the headset too? When you say matte black clear - is it flat black or polished looking? Could you please post a picture of yours so I can see exactly what you received and exactly what you ordered? Other than the quick delivery, are you pleased with your transaction, frame quality etc.?

MUCH APPRECIATED!!!


----------



## karlo

CyKlo said:


> Karlo,
> How long ago? What model did you get? Did you get the headset too? When you say matte black clear - is it flat black or polished looking? Could you please post a picture of yours so I can see exactly what you received and exactly what you ordered? Other than the quick delivery, are you pleased with your transaction, frame quality etc.?
> 
> MUCH APPRECIATED!!!



If I post all that info I might get jumped on as well as you, I posted everything in this thread from start to finish so just go back and look through it, I think i started on page 5

Here is a link to pictures of the bike:
https://gabeadz.com/karlo/images/gallery/hobbies/My Bike/KGDC

https://gabeadz.com/karlo/images/misc/DengFu-Invoice-II.jpg

Here are some links to posts:
https://forums.roadbikereview.com/showpost.php?p=3002517&postcount=188
https://forums.roadbikereview.com/showpost.php?p=3003980&postcount=210
https://forums.roadbikereview.com/showpost.php?p=3019751&postcount=285
https://forums.roadbikereview.com/showpost.php?p=3022385&postcount=297
https://forums.roadbikereview.com/showpost.php?p=3022481&postcount=299
https://forums.roadbikereview.com/showpost.php?p=2993515&postcount=79


----------



## CyKlo

karlo said:


> If I post all that info I might get jumped on as well as you, I posted everything in this thread from start to finish so just go back and look through it, I think i started on page 5
> 
> Here is a link to pictures of the bike:
> https://gabeadz.com/karlo/images/gallery/hobbies/My Bike/KGDC
> 
> https://gabeadz.com/karlo/images/misc/DengFu-Invoice-II.jpg
> 
> Here are some links to posts:
> https://forums.roadbikereview.com/showpost.php?p=3002517&postcount=188
> https://forums.roadbikereview.com/showpost.php?p=3003980&postcount=210
> https://forums.roadbikereview.com/showpost.php?p=3019751&postcount=285
> https://forums.roadbikereview.com/showpost.php?p=3022385&postcount=297
> https://forums.roadbikereview.com/showpost.php?p=3022481&postcount=299
> https://forums.roadbikereview.com/showpost.php?p=2993515&postcount=79


Sorry Karlo, I had a total brain fart. Your rig is the one I have been looking at every day. Great Job and way to get creative and personalize the decals. Very Sweet and thanks for the info - AGAIN


----------



## cfred84

CyKlo said:


> Velomateo,
> You're awesome, thanks!
> I am wondering something...Mina at DengFu quoted me exactly $80 less for the same FM-015 and fork than Jenny at HongFu. Also, Mina said they have them in stock ready to go and Jenny said 80 working days from receipt of payment. There is a $10 difference in shipping so total delta of $70. Is there any reason you or anyone else knows why I shouldn't go for the same frame for less money delivered at least 2 months quicker?
> 
> Thanks again - very helpful!


I'd say go for whichever gives u e better price or if on par delivers faster
both Jenny and Mina has gt pretty gd feedbacks
Do rem ur paypal protection is only 40 or 60days if I'm nt wrong

I went for Dengfu and Mina cuz e price quoted was quite abit lower.
Cheers..


----------



## ClarkinHawaii

CyKlo said:


> Velomateo,
> Is there any reason you or anyone else knows why I shouldn't go for the same frame for less money delivered at least 2 months quicker?
> !


OK, if I were you, I would ask Jenny at HongFu this exact same question and see what she says . . . maybe you get price break or something . . . or they magically find bike in stock?????


----------



## ClarkinHawaii

CyKlo said:


> Clark,
> I am seriously considering the FM001. I do like the design/geometry and it is also less expensive. Also, someone else just responded that they went from an OCR1 and to take care when ordering a size for the FM015. What did you transfer from - model, size etc. and how does the FM001 compare?


Have you seen the actual frame geometries? Contact Jenny at Hongfu and ask her to email you the frame geometries for the 001 in size 52 and 54 or whatever. Ask for the sizes that bracket what you think you would fit. And then look at the effective top tube length for each to best fit your reach as determined from a bike you currently have which fits you.


----------



## lust4bikes

*Carbon clincher tire changing*

I have a set of carbon 50's and I decided to wrap electrical tape around the valves in order to silence the chatter. This is the first time I removed the tires and put them back on (my lbs put on the tires for me the first time). Anyway, these are a ***** to put on! My thumbs are sore and I'll probably get a blister tomorrow... I'm using Michelin Pro Race 3 tires. Anyone else have this problem? Any ideas to make changing them easier?


----------



## elviento

Warning: 

Most of the China-made pinarello copies are off by a lot, but this one is very close in the shapes and curves. THis is beause this Prince copy actually involves infringements of Pinarello's rights as people have been stealing molds from the the factory that does OEM for Pina. 

This is from very reliable sources. 

Just put it side by side with a real prince, you can see the shapes are exactly the same. 

If you are OK w that, good for you, but I just feel something lame about it. 





MrPerkles said:


> My Greetkeen Prince copy arrived today,I was nervous from bad feedback on here but it is good quality,arrived on time and the communication was spot on through out the deal. :thumbsup:
> I plan to spray it myself just need to decide a colour scheme,I will post some pictures when its done


----------



## slabber

CyKlo said:


> Karlo,
> How long ago? What model did you get? Did you get the headset too? When you say matte black clear - is it flat black or polished looking? Could you please post a picture of yours so I can see exactly what you received and exactly what you ordered? Other than the quick delivery, are you pleased with your transaction, frame quality etc.?
> 
> MUCH APPRECIATED!!!


Matte is the finish description = not glossy. 

The matte clearcoat has no tint to it, it's just a clear finish with no gloss. 

I chose matte clearcoat for my 3K weave FM015 and like it a lot.


----------



## WheresWaldo

lust4bikes said:


> I have a set of carbon 50's and I decided to wrap electrical tape around the valves in order to silence the chatter. This is the first time I removed the tires and put them back on (my lbs put on the tires for me the first time). Anyway, these are a ***** to put on! My thumbs are sore and I'll probably get a blister tomorrow... I'm using Michelin Pro Race 3 tires. Anyone else have this problem? Any ideas to make changing them easier?


You should really ask this question in the Carbon wheel thread.

Depending on the actual depth of the bead seat some tire/wheel combination's are just harder to mount than others. If you think your PR3 tires are snug, switch to Continentals and see just how hard a tire is to mount. There is no amount of mounting/dismounting that will make a particular clincher easier to mount. If you can't mount that last bit with just your thumbs then carry two of the Park plastic tire irons to assist in this procedure. with practice you will be able to reduce this to one tire iron. Your other choice is to switch to another brand of tire.


----------



## ColoRoadie

elviento said:


> Warning:
> 
> Most of the China-made pinarello copies are off by a lot, but this one is very close in the shapes and curves. THis is beause this Prince copy actually involves infringements of Pinarello's rights as people have been stealing molds from the the factory that does OEM for Pina.
> 
> This is from very reliable sources.
> 
> Just put it side by side with a real prince, you can see the shapes are exactly the same.
> 
> If you are OK w that, good for you, but I just feel something lame about it.


Very reliable sources, eh? Molds just grew legs and walked out of the factory did they? Those molds were in China at the time I take it? 

Competitive cyclist calls the Prince out as a $4500 frame. Do you think it even remotely possible that it costs Pinarello more than $200 per frame to make them in China? Wouldn't you call that kind of markup just a little bit ridiculous? Automobiles don't have that kind of profit in them. At $4500 a frame, Pinarello doesn't have the margin to have the frame built somewhere other than China? They couldn't afford security at the plant? 

If you are OK with that sort of price gouging, good for you, but I just feel there is something very lame about it. If a company has their material built in china so that they can mark it up 2500%...and it gets copied or even stolen by one of the workers who make less than our minimum wage and have no benefits, I'm not going to shed a tear for Pinarello. Nope. Not one tear. 

If they make their frames somewhere other than China and Taiwan please let us know...because I might rethink my position, but then that will make the story of stolen molds much harder to believe.


----------



## Carabo

> Do you think it even remotely possible that it costs Pinarello more than $200 per frame to make them in China?


How about?
Development, R&D (intelectual property??)
Quality control
Marketing
Dealer network
Image
etc.


----------



## mrwirey

*Lame is...*

...building an Italian bike (that was made in China) and using Japanese components to do so and then hating on people who purchased an actual Chinese made version of the Italian knock off! That just affects my sense of right and wrong  . But seriously, how about we just live in the moment and appreciate that everyone on this thread is a bicycle enthusiast who shares our common interest of building and riding bicycles. I find joy in hearing and reading about someone who is researching, 'stalking' (I don't mean this in a pejorative sense) the sellers on eBay, suffering through the anxiety associated with ordering and the anticipation of receiving, as well as the ordeals of building their bike, and finally I think it is very cool when someone completes and shares their build with everyone. You can tell that they have pride of ownership. Is this more pride or better pride than someone who buys a bike off the shelf from a LBS? I don't know and I don't really care, but I do know that I will not judge. I personally could care less if you are rich or poor or Catholic or Atheist or democrat or republican (Shimano fan or SRAM fan). I find that the common bond of our shared experiences is quite enjoyable. Oh, and I would still be a Campy fan even if (I probably should say 'when' rather than if as all things possible are inevitable...) Campy were made in China and HongFu sold knockoffs! 
I am off my soapbox. I have to get ready for my morning commute. 
Very respectfully (and I mean that with all sincerity), Tim


----------



## asherstash1

i personally... am ok with it, this frame, built up will make a massive difference to my cycling (current bike weighs 13.5 kg lol), as opposed to the last guy i saw on a prince who was struggling to get up to jogging speed on the flat and was clearly trying to lose weight on his ridiculously expensive toy, from the look of it that bike was destined to end up with his gym membership and treadmill... but he could afford it so what the hell, i cant, so... what the hell  x


----------



## ultraman6970

Personally i doubt they steal those molds but at this point who knows, regarding the markups, well u have to pay research and development, then the molding part that i doubt is cheap. I have a good source in the industry also and yes the mark ups for companies like pinarello or colnago are high, actually produce a frame is darn cheap but then u have to incorporate the R&D plus the use of the mold, labor and shipping and at the end the darn paint and decals that is when the frame gets all its added value. But yes the cost of a frame now a days is cheap for them once u have the molds and where to produce them. Doubt it is more than 350 to 400 bucks for the real prince frame. 

The prince copy is off, u can tell looking at it that is off compared with the real thing but the sucker is pretty close, probably the reason is off is because if they produce exactly the same frame frame as pinarello's geometry then they might be getting in trouble, the kuota frame is the same thing, almost identical to the real thing but the geometry is not the same, just like how vanilla ice used to say, "not the same but a little bit changed." (vanilla ice got in trouble for adding a queen base line in a song w/o asking permission 1st). 

So no matter what pinarello says, technically is not the same frame, the frame looks the same but the geometry is off, that keeps the chinese safe. Who is the owner of those molds? who knows, because u have to create new molds unless they do something to them to make them smaller? I doubt it.

French are smarter, they produce the tubes somewhere, probably china. Then they put all together at home like for example cyfac. No monocoque molds in here.

To finish, i would not pay 5000 or 6000 for a frame, no way unless came with a harem of 5 super hot chicks that will be my girls forever.


----------



## asherstash1

why cant i delete stupid comps second post?


----------



## BernyMac

I love those "coming from reliable sources" statements. It adds so much weight to the credibility of a forum poster and one has no choice but to believe them.


----------



## lust4bikes

If the Pirate manufacturer lacks ethics with respect to stealing molds, do you think he will be ethical in the lay-up and assembly with his carbon? Do you trust him to pull frames that have internal air bubbles? How ethical do you expect him to be with quality control? From a consumers short term perspective, it would be great if the Seller was an "ethical Pirate"...but is that a reasonable expectation? A certain number of carbon units fail (even with Trek, Specialized etc.). When it is an obvious manufacturing defect, the unit is replaced a no cost.

Even if these China/Taiwan have good builds, some will inevitably be defective. Will these Sellers/vendors replace defective products? Does anyone on this forum have experience with warranty issues from these vendors?


----------



## ultraman6970

Almost any forum member that has a friend with real stores can assure the mark ups part and how much a frame can be in the market because are not numbers unknown for them at all. I believe the guy from bike direct it is a member from this forum, just go and ask him, there is a chance he will tell you some numbers.

All factory runs come with problems, that's the reason many frames are painted also hehehe So far i can trust what the guys say about these chinese frames, many guys are racing them also and no complains. I would love to have money to get one anyways.

cheers


----------



## zender

lust4bikes said:


> If the Pirate manufacturer lacks ethics with respect to stealing molds, do you think he will be ethical in the lay-up and assembly with his carbon? Do you trust him to pull frames that have internal air bubbles? How ethical do you expect him to be with quality control? From a consumers short term perspective, it would be great if the Seller was an "ethical Pirate"...but is that a reasonable expectation? A certain number of carbon units fail (even with Trek, Specialized etc.). When it is an obvious manufacturing defect, the unit is replaced a no cost.
> 
> Even if these China/Taiwan have good builds, some will inevitably be defective. Will these Sellers/vendors replace defective products? Does anyone on this forum have experience with warranty issues from these vendors?


Warranty? The frames cost a couple of hundred bucks. They're disposable. That's why they make great racing frames. Imagine how bad you'd feel crashing that Pina frame if some noob cuts your line in a crit. I bought a more "pricey" TT frame which was 500 bucks. If it cracks, it's going in the trash and I'll buy a new one. Yeah, if the steerer tube on the fork explodes at 40mph on a twisty downhill that would suck, but the world we live in is full of risks. I'm much more worried about a car, deer or patch of oil than a defective frame causing a bad crash.

Now, whether our western economies are sustainable with all manufacturing moving to Asia is an important matter, but for the politics subforum.


----------



## timed

zender said:


> Warranty? The frames cost a couple of hundred bucks. They're disposable. That's why they make great racing frames. Imagine how bad you'd feel crashing that Pina frame if some noob cuts your line in a crit. I bought a more "pricey" TT frame which was 500 bucks. If it cracks, it's going in the trash and I'll buy a new one. Yeah, if the steerer tube on the fork explodes at 40mph on a twisty downhill that would suck, but the world we live in is full of risks. I'm much more worried about a car, deer or patch of oil than a defective frame causing a bad crash.
> 
> Now, whether our western economies are sustainable with all manufacturing moving to Asia is an important matter, but for the politics subforum.


my chinese fm028 frame supplier sent me a new frame since the first one had a small damage, no questions asked, just which size it was and an adress and I had a new frame in my garage within a week


----------



## ckibbe

Thought this might be usefull to those on this thread....

http://www.canecreek.com/headset-fit-finder

Note: The FM-015 uses a italian or campy spec on the diameter of the upper bearing (42mm).


----------



## lust4bikes

As a consumer, my goal is to get the biggest bang for my cycling dollar. These chinese bargains certainly are compelling....Carbon by its very nature means the product has a shorter life cycle. Hopefully these chinese wheels and frames will provide a reasonable life. $500 a throw is enough to hurt. You also have to factor , disassembly, re-assembly, shipping turn around time & cost. I suspect if they product is prone to failure, it should occur within the warranty period. It appears that the benefits (value per dollar) outweigh the risks, overall (but not always).


----------



## lust4bikes

As a consumer, my goal is to get the biggest bang for my cycling dollar. These chinese bargains certainly are compelling....Carbon by its very nature means the product has a shorter life cycle. Hopefully these chinese wheels and frames will provide a reasonable life. $500 a throw is enough to hurt. You also have to factor , disassembly, re-assembly, shipping turn around time & cost. I suspect if the product is prone to failure, it should occur within the warranty period. It appears that the benefits (value per dollar) outweigh the risks, overall (but not always).


----------



## cww180

thefutureofamerica said:


> Link?


I tried to attach photos maybe Stephano from Yishun can post more about it here, its their new frame with internal cable routing and supports BB30.


----------



## cww180

I am a big guy and have been riding mine for over two years and I am happy to say that I have not needed to know about the warranty. I think its a great value, and the fact that it is not paint allows me a higher chance of spotting a crack if it does occur. Overall worth the risk IMHO.


----------



## config

lust4bikes said:


> If the Pirate manufacturer lacks ethics with respect to stealing molds, do you think he will be ethical in the lay-up and assembly with his carbon? Do you trust him to pull frames that have internal air bubbles? How ethical do you expect him to be with quality control? From a consumers short term perspective, it would be great if the Seller was an "ethical Pirate"...but is that a reasonable expectation? A certain number of carbon units fail (even with Trek, Specialized etc.). When it is an obvious manufacturing defect, the unit is replaced a no cost.
> 
> Even if these China/Taiwan have good builds, some will inevitably be defective. Will these Sellers/vendors replace defective products? Does anyone on this forum have experience with warranty issues from these vendors?


I have to admit, I was a bit skeptical at first but after reading a whole lot threads of pages on these Chinese made frames, I figured I had to try and see for myself. Honestly, it was a $400 experiment. I wasn't expecting much, but to me it was worth the curiosity, plus it helped that others had great success.

Well, I purchased a frame/fork and some other items from Greatkeenbike. The initial fork they sent happened to not fit a properly sized 700c wheel/tire. After contacting them, they corrected it and sent me another one. Although it did take a few weeks, but nonetheless, they came through. They told me to not bother sending the other one back. Overall, I am very happy with my purchase and would purchase from them again. My friends in fact are all planning on getting a frame from them soon. Although this is not entirely a warranty issue, I think it qualifies as such.


----------



## ultraman6970

Config whats the problem with the old fork? Im looking for a fork for an experiment.


----------



## WheresWaldo

Just got a shipping notification from Archtek. Should have my fm-015 by the end of the week.


----------



## config

ultraman6970 said:


> Config whats the problem with the old fork? Im looking for a fork for an experiment.


This.
http://forums.roadbikereview.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=210464&stc=1&d=1284071236


----------



## Pemo

Sorry about the repetition but the 1.0 and 2.0 threads refuse to open. Having just noticed that Dengfu quote 1,200 grammes for the FM015 while Hong-fu claim closer to the 1kg mark, I was wondering if there were several versions of this frame? Is there anybody out there who happened to have weighed their Dengfu FM015 in size 53 before the build? Cheers.


----------



## Pemo

Pemo said:


> Sorry about the repetition but the 1.0 and 2.0 threads refuse to open. Having just noticed that Dengfu quote 1,200 grammes for the FM015 while Hong-fu claim closer to the 1kg mark, I was wondering if there were several versions of this frame? Is there anybody out there who happened to have weighed their Dengfu FM015 in size 53 before the build? Cheers.


Looking for the non-ISP weight...


----------



## bwatson87

I too would be interested to hear of anyone who's weighed their FM015 in a 53 or 55, and where they bought it from.

Ben


----------



## stevesbike

ColoRoadie said:


> Very reliable sources, eh? Molds just grew legs and walked out of the factory did they? Those molds were in China at the time I take it?
> 
> Competitive cyclist calls the Prince out as a $4500 frame. Do you think it even remotely possible that it costs Pinarello more than $200 per frame to make them in China? Wouldn't you call that kind of markup just a little bit ridiculous? Automobiles don't have that kind of profit in them. At $4500 a frame, Pinarello doesn't have the margin to have the frame built somewhere other than China? They couldn't afford security at the plant?
> 
> If you are OK with that sort of price gouging, good for you, but I just feel there is something very lame about it. If a company has their material built in china so that they can mark it up 2500%...and it gets copied or even stolen by one of the workers who make less than our minimum wage and have no benefits, I'm not going to shed a tear for Pinarello. Nope. Not one tear.
> 
> If they make their frames somewhere other than China and Taiwan please let us know...because I might rethink my position, but then that will make the story of stolen molds much harder to believe.


some of the people on this forum must have missed the first day of business economics 101...


----------



## lobo

bwatson87 said:


> I too would be interested to hear of anyone who's weighed their FM015 in a 53 or 55, and where they bought it from.
> 
> Ben


My 015, from HF, 49cm - 1025 g, no paint, 3k clear coat.


----------



## satanas

I've been looking at both these threads and eBay for a while now, and have noticed that few of the sellers list frame geometry, or if they do it's woefully incomplete, and/or doesn't indicate where the measurements are taken from. 

One of the main motivations for getting a new frame is to fix a few fit problems with a current frame. FWIW, I've been riding a long time and am fussy about the sizing. For me slack seat angles are good and short top tubes are bad, which means many of these frames won't fit. :-(

Where is the geometry info available?!? Surely everyone who has bought frames hasn't had to individually email each seller about each size...


----------



## lobo

satanas said:


> I've been looking at both these threads and eBay for a while now, and have noticed that few of the sellers list frame geometry, or if they do it's woefully incomplete, and/or doesn't indicate where the measurements are taken from.
> 
> One of the main motivations for getting a new frame is to fix a few fit problems with a current frame. FWIW, I've been riding a long time and am fussy about the sizing. For me slack seat angles are good and short top tubes are bad, which means many of these frames won't fit. :-(
> 
> Where is the geometry info available?!? Surely everyone who has bought frames hasn't had to individually email each seller about each size...


Here...
http://www.hongfu-bikes.com/Products.asp?Id=399
or here...
http://cheapcarbonframes.com/category/frames/
and so on...


----------



## asherstash1

not looked v hard at these threads then lol sum1 set up a specific website about the common frames and geometrys have come up over and over. isnt it cheapcarbonframes.com? also when i ordered my 54cm 101 from greatkeen they had the geometry diagram on the site, as well as the 56, although it now only has 56 info tbh...


----------



## kip.duff

*craftsmanship questions*

Getting ready to buy a frame for my daughter and probably myself. Am leaning towards DengFu FM015, matt finish. Saw shabby cable guide routing for FD on some posts (I think ColoRoadie's bike came this way). Is this common? Another manufacturer with better fit/finish? Sounds like I should ask seller to install headset bearings/races before shipping.

I now ride Cannondale CAAD7 with HollowGram cranks, Rolf Vigor Pros/Conti GP 3000 tires, and Dura-Ace. Any thoughts on how this might compare, transferring parts from the C-Dale?

Thanks for the forum, Kip..........


----------



## mrwirey

satanas said:


> For me slack seat angles are good and short top tubes are bad, which means many of these frames won't fit. :-(QUOTE]
> 
> Satanas,
> You seem to need something like a Motobecane (slack seat tube; long top tube; unfortunately short head tube) and you would most definitely steer clear of anything related to a Gios (steep seat tube angle and very short top tubes).  I bought both an FM015 (58cm) and an FM028 (56cm). Although they are different size frames the stack and reach are similar and easily adjusted to my preference with stem length. I too have come to appreciate a long top tube, I can fit and have several frames with 55cm TT, but I tend to prefer 56cm (with 120mm stem), 56.5cm (with 110mm stem), and even 57cm (my absolute limit with a 100mm stem) TT these days. Neither my FM015 nor my FM028 has a slack seat angle. They are both rather standard in that regard so unless you are comfortable making up the difference with a setback seatpost these frames may not do it for you. You can get most of the angles from this website http://cheapcarbonframes.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/08/sizing.html
> Very respectfully, Tim


----------



## ColoRoadie

kip.duff said:


> Getting ready to buy a frame for my daughter and probably myself. Am leaning towards DengFu FM015, matt finish. Saw shabby cable guide routing for FD on some posts (I think ColoRoadie's bike came this way). Is this common? Another manufacturer with better fit/finish? Sounds like I should ask seller to install headset bearings/races before shipping.
> 
> I now ride Cannondale CAAD7 with HollowGram cranks, Rolf Vigor Pros/Conti GP 3000 tires, and Dura-Ace. Any thoughts on how this might compare, transferring parts from the C-Dale?
> 
> Thanks for the forum, Kip..........


That was mine you saw the pic of.

I was bothered by where the hole ended up for the front derailleur because I thought it wasn't in the perfect place. Then, while in Excel Sports in Boulder I stuck my head under several Cervello's and a few Look's.

That's when I discovered that it was my own lack of bike building knowledge that was bothering me. Several of the high dollar frames had worse alignment than my cheap chinese frame...but it was dealt with in the same way I dealt with mine, a piece of cable lining from the BB guide into the hole. It works perfectly and the bike is eating up 100-120 miles a week with a grinning cyclist atop it. I learned alot while building that frame up...not the least of which was how imperfect the vast majority of bicycle frames are...and how little it matters.

If you died and willed me a Cervello, Look or Pinarello...I would sell it and keep what I have. I would probably use a 10th of what I got for it to buy another frame to build for fun, but I see nothing about the higher end bikes that makes me covet one.



stevesbike said:


> some of the people on this forum must have missed the first day of business economics 101...


Actually I went quite a bit further than 101...which I should thank you for since your tax dollars paid for both of my degrees. Thanks Steve! You da man!


----------



## fightcity

this is great, i'm glad i stumbled across this forum. once I have enough money i'll buy a cyclocross frame and post pics. in the mean time i got lots of researching to do. so i'll see u guys later. my second post will have lots of pics of the bike and all that.


----------



## tabmaster

Mine...









Paul.


----------



## WheresWaldo

Pemo said:


> Sorry about the repetition but the 1.0 and 2.0 threads refuse to open. Having just noticed that Dengfu quote 1,200 grammes for the FM015 while Hong-fu claim closer to the 1kg mark, I was wondering if there were several versions of this frame? Is there anybody out there who happened to have weighed their Dengfu FM015 in size 53 before the build? Cheers.


Maybe if the forum admins would change this it might be helpful. This is a stupid forum default issue, which has been asked and answered over and over again.

Open up any thread that you can see, then go to the top right corner of the thread and select *Display Modes >> Linear Mode*. Once slected you will be able to open all threads, even the ones that are over 1000 posts.


----------



## kip.duff

ColoRoadie said:


> That was mine you saw the pic of.
> 
> Is yours a Dengfu FM015?


----------



## ColoRoadie

kip.duff said:


> ColoRoadie said:
> 
> 
> 
> That was mine you saw the pic of.
> 
> Is yours a Dengfu FM015?
> 
> 
> 
> Dengfu FM027
Click to expand...


----------



## ericTheHalf

I've been intrigued by this thread for a while. I just happened to look at a frame on Dengfu's Alibaba here . This one has a scan of an "EN test report" but is too small to read. Any know what that is?


----------



## adam_mac84

Well, my all black 105 set should arrive next week, and am going to be making my order next week for my FM028 frame/fork/seat. Now i just have to decide on Blue, Lime Green or all black bar tape/cables. I am also going to try the custom sticker guy for a headtube sticker of my family crest and maybe my last name (McIntyre, or McClydesdale) for the tube graphics in a nice ye olde country script


----------



## duck_05as

Fake but nice "DOGMA" !!?
https://www.aliexpress.com/fm-store...-UD-Carbon-Fiber-Bike-Frames-JING-RCB020.html









[i


----------



## 64driver

*Time trial Bike greatkeen frame*

If anyone on this forum has the same frame, please let me know if you had any clearance issues with the front derailleur(FD). The front half is to high and it made is hard to come back to the big chain once you change to the small gear. The brace on the frame has no play to swing front or back. I anyone here has a way to rig it where I can bring the FD down on the front and high towards the back please let me know. Here is a picture on photobucket.

https://i166.photobucket.com/albums/u97/jg951/FrontD1.jpg

and the full bike 

https://i166.photobucket.com/albums/u97/jg951/100_6961.jpg

thanks


----------



## 64driver

*This the bike*

Mine


----------



## 64driver

*Front derailleur issues*

front D clearance issues


----------



## ultraman6970

Your have to set the FD maybe 1 cm lower, the cage must be like 2 mm, or almost touching the big chairing. If you lower the FD it wont touch the brace thing. 

From the picture clearly the problem is that one, now if you still have problems with clearance because looks like the attach angle in the brace might be wrong if you lower it, i would plain dremel the FD or the brace, or shim the FD so if gets the right angle. Another thing, i read something about FD shims with Sram stuff? I believe time ago the FD came in the box with some shim for adjustment, probably somebody with this stuff can tell you better im not a sram person.

If you have an old FD moving around play with that one 1st.


----------



## stevesbike

I have that tt frame - you can either get the sram slant adjustment washer (page 9 of the link, part 3) or make something to change the angle. As a temp workaround I used a few pieces of velox rim tape on the derailleur. Worked fine. There's also some issues with the sram derailleur and clearance of the seat tube bolts when the derailleur is shifted to the big chain. This may require moving the derailleur up/down the clamp. A shimano FD doesn't have the latter issue if the problem can't be fixed with SRAM. 

http://www.sram.com/_media/techdocs/2010 SRAM MTB Road SPC_Rev C (Rev C price list).pdf

if you order the sram piece get a few in case you need more than one...


----------



## stevesbike

you may also want to think about using the front seatpost hole with your adamo saddle - I think it's the stronger position of the two)


----------



## ColoRoadie

I had the same difficulty with my FM027 only perhaps with even worse alignment. After pondering it a while, I spent 15 minutes with a dremel slowly shaving the derailleur down a bit and it's perfect now. Pics are on page 5 of this thread. HERE


----------



## rruff

CyKlo said:


> I am wondering something...Mina at DengFu quoted me exactly $80 less for the same FM-015 and fork than Jenny at HongFu. Also, Mina said they have them in stock ready to go and Jenny said 80 working days from receipt of payment


When I needed a frame in a hurry, Mina said they had what I wanted in stock... but they sent a frame with a painted fork and a "B" on it. The finish on the frame was not so great either. They eventually got me the right fork and it didn't cost me anything but time and not having anything to ride, but...


----------



## rruff

satanas said:


> For me slack seat angles are good and short top tubes are bad, which means many of these frames won't fit. :-(.


Do you currently have a setback post and the saddle all the way back?


----------



## triathlete

Hi everyone  I'm new in these forum, my name is Rihard  

I'm thinking to get FM028 frame, but have to decide whic to choise?! ISP or non-isp frame 
any big problems with ISP models? thanks


----------



## Doctor Falsetti

triathlete said:


> Hi everyone  I'm new in these forum, my name is Rihard
> 
> I'm thinking to get FM028 frame, but have to decide whic to choise?! ISP or non-isp frame
> any big problems with ISP models? thanks


Do you travel with your bike? The ISP can make packing it a bit of a challenge


----------



## triathlete

oh no. I did not touched my seatpost for move it un/down for a all season long.

no any problems with isp?


----------



## ClarkinHawaii

triathlete said:


> oh no. I did not touched my seatpost for move it un/down for a all season long.
> 
> no any problems with isp?


More prone to damage during initial shipping. A little tricky getting it sized right and of course you're dead if you cut it too short. Apparently the "stubby" that comes with (some of) these isn't the best quality/lightest. No flexibility if you decide in the future that you want a more upright position or if somebody else wants to ride the bike or if you want to sell the bike.

I have no experience with the isp--these are just some things I've read on here . . .


----------



## pmorrissey

New FM015 from DengFu. Motley side of old DuraAce and Ultegra until my Rival groupset comes in.
http://www.flickr.com/photos/pmorrissey/5090989753/


----------



## jobubr

You guys should really just start calling these HongFu bikes or something else agreeable so that they can be added to the manufacture review section of this board. Would love to read more about strengths/weaknesses of ride quality etc. Cheap Carbon bikes just doesn't sound right, they need a name by which you guys can continually refer to them by. Even if they are "off-brand" a brand name needs established. Think "Sam's cola" from Walmart.


----------



## cxl98904

I am thinking of getting a frame from Deng Fu and have them paint the frame. Can comment on the quality of their paint job.


----------



## lust4bikes

Very Elegant! Did Denfu do your graphics? If so, what was the upcharge? Gorgeous ride,
congratulations!


----------



## cfred84

cxl98904 said:


> I am thinking of getting a frame from Deng Fu and have them paint the frame. Can comment on the quality of their paint job.


Paint wise I would rate them as pretty decent.
Nothing compared to say lik the finish on a Pinarello etc.
But for the small fee that they are charging, I would say very good value.

If you're picky though, U might prefer getting it done urself
As on close inspection small flaws lik 1-2 small unpainted area (tiny ones) etc
But as I said value for $, definitely!! I'm happy with mine


----------



## zender

kip.duff said:


> Getting ready to buy a frame for my daughter and probably myself. Am leaning towards DengFu FM015, matt finish. Saw shabby cable guide routing for FD on some posts (I think ColoRoadie's bike came this way). Is this common? Another manufacturer with better fit/finish? Sounds like I should ask seller to install headset bearings/races before shipping.
> 
> I now ride Cannondale CAAD7 with HollowGram cranks, Rolf Vigor Pros/Conti GP 3000 tires, and Dura-Ace. Any thoughts on how this might compare, transferring parts from the C-Dale?
> 
> Thanks for the forum, Kip..........


The manufacturer of all these frames is almost certainly the same. It doesn't much matter where you source them (ebay, dengfu etc), you're likely to get the same level of quality.

For most of these frames, the headsets are integrated Campy style. There is nothing to press into the frame. The only race that needs to be installed is the one on the fork steerer, which has to be cut by you anyway. If you don't feel comfortable cutting the steerer, the shop who will do it for you can install that one race. The parts of the headset that contact the frame simply drop in.


----------



## elviento

Has anyone reviewed these frames in comparison with contemporary high end carbon frames? I am on the 015ISP but find it rather soft especially considering the massive tubing (larger than most name brands out there). BTW, i am not a young bragging racer type who thinks everything is too soft... In fact, it does not feel stiffer than my C50, but the latter has tubes so much thinner. 

Any thoughts?


----------



## zender

triathlete said:


> oh no. I did not touched my seatpost for move it un/down for a all season long.
> 
> no any problems with isp?


I've had both. In retrospect, as 'cool' as ISP looks, IMO it's just not worth the trouble. It's just such a hassle to set it up perfectly since you don't want to cut too much, you want that cut to be perfectly square. If you want to make a 1-2mm adjustment, you need to sand or dremel it since sawing isn't going to be an option. If you get a different saddle at some point that sits lower, you need to shim it. I think the FM028 looks pretty nice even without ISP.

Link to mine: https://gallery.roadbikereview.com/data/roadbike/500/DSCN06780.jpg


----------



## mrbubbles

zender said:


> Link to mine: https://gallery.roadbikereview.com/data/roadbike/500/DSCN06780.jpg


I wonder how you mount an extra bottle cage on that. There's only space for one bottle cage on the frame.


----------



## redmr2_man

you're usually not doing a super long ride if you time trial, I believe. So one bottle in probably enough, and you can always toss another in the back of your jersey


----------



## mrbubbles

TT bikes aren't too bad for long rides. 

Someone should check out this from dengfu.

https://dengfu.en.alibaba.com/produ...arbon_TT_fork_carbon_TT_carbon_handlebar.html


----------



## timed

it looks a bit raw for my taste.


----------



## satanas

rruff said:


> Do you currently have a setback post and the saddle all the way back?


Yes, but I can usually only get the seat back far enough if I choose seatposts with the maximum amount of offset (i.e., FSA K Force Lite SB32), *and* push the seat all the way back. Sometimes this is still only barely enough if the seat angle is >73 degrees. I really dislike bikes with 73.5 or 74 degree seat angles; <72 degrees would be nice. I could use a normal seatpost and/or have some potential for saddle adjustment then.

And yes, I have tried setting bikes up with a more forward seat. It just doesn't work for me except for flat TTs with low aero bars.

Seems like most of these frames just ain't gonna fit me well enough to bother....


----------



## ultraman6970

Satanas the issue is that all these frames are sort racing geometry frames (unless somebody is making one, I imagine you are tall also, that makes it harder to find) , what are u looking is a plain touring frame, u wont find that in carbon unless as somebody mentioned the motobecane could have a super relaxed geometry. Or you go to something expensive like a willier, bmc, specialized or something.

Or go with a steel frame something, im not into those frames so i cant even tell you because all that stuff looks like a Schwinn collegiate for me, and something like that is not available in carbon at all (it could be a crime anyways)

The other thing, have u ever wonder that u have a problem in the style and fit in the bike? I have meet and seen guys riding like seated in the far edge of the bike just because and doing in it for so many years that they haven't realized that they do not have control over the bike and the fit is wrong big time. The chinese stuff is more than enough and you can get maybe 71 from one of them but as you said are short frames, but as taller you go the longer it gets also so it just compensate a little bit.

Good luck


----------



## zigzag84




----------



## toadbiker

*nice- got a weight?*

Very nice - what is the weight and how much was the total for frame/fork/paint/finish?



zigzag84 said:


>


----------



## zigzag84

toadbiker said:


> Very nice - what is the weight and how much was the total for frame/fork/paint/finish?


MT-MC015	53cm	Road frame with fork(MO007),3K Painted	3k	1	405,00 USD
Molding fee The painting is white&orange, without logo 1	30,00 USD	30,00 USD
MT- SP003 Seat Post 31,6mm	3k	1	30,00 USD	MT-H373 Headset	3k	1	18,00 USD	
MT-SC002 Carbon Spacer 5/10/15/20 mm	3k	2	5,00 USD	10,00 USD
MT-MBC 002 bottle cage 3k	2	9,00 USD	18,00 USD
MT - SCS04 clamp ( Free) 1	2,00 USD	

Shipping cost 108X54X17cm (frame with fork)/7kg 1	110,00 USD	110,00 USD
Paypal commission 4.5% USD 27,95 1	27,00 USD	27,00 USD
*Total 648,00 USD*

Weight : 6.4 Kg


----------



## zender

mrbubbles said:


> I wonder how you mount an extra bottle cage on that. There's only space for one bottle cage on the frame.


Couple of things. You can put an aero bar bottle on there with a long straw. I have the small Profile one but I can't stand it. Alternatively, you can put two cages behind the seat.

For a 40K TT, one bottle is usually enough. There is a short (10 mile) TT near me. I don't even put a bottle on the bike for that. If you're at Kona, well, you probably have some support to swap out bottles 

But, these TT frames are not ideal geometry for a long group ride or a casual century. Nothing says you're not allowed to set them up that way, but then you're carrying around all this extra weight and aero, adding spacers and pushing the seat back to correct the geometry. Counterproductive.

I do like having a vertical seattube/post. It makes tweaking the seat position so much easier.

I agree that the reviews section of this board should have a section for these frames. Who can create a new "manufacturer" in there. They could just be listed under "FM" (FM015,FM028 etc). I'd be happy to review the two I've tried so far.


----------



## stubek

mrbubbles said:


> I wonder how you mount an extra bottle cage on that. There's only space for one bottle cage on the frame.


I use this
http://www.profile-design.com/profile-design/products/hydration/all-hydration/aqualite.html 
with this mount
http://www.profile-design.com/profile-design/products/hydration/all-hydration/aerodrink-bracket.html

Profile has a couple other bottle sizes as well as a 2 reservoir bottle so you can have water and sport drink.

I have a Zipp Vuka aerobar. Fits great. The combined price on those two items is about $50-$60 and you can even get them for $30 total if you shop around.

There are two other options out there for mounting a bottle between the extensions, one from FSA/Vision, it is lower profile, but longer front to back, but also costs $150+

There is also a little thing you can mount between the extensions then bolt a normal water bottle cage to it, but that gets to be quite heavy and you still have to use your hands to get the bottle out and drink like normal.


----------



## zender

I have that same Profile Aqualite, but I just can't stand it. Water either spills out on my front caliper (so I avoid anything but water) over bumps or I can seal it with some plastic wrap like others have done, but then drinking is a chore.


----------



## stubek

zender said:


> I have that same Profile Aqualite, but I just can't stand it. Water either spills out on my front caliper (so I avoid anything but water) over bumps or I can seal it with some plastic wrap like others have done, but then drinking is a chore.


If you don't do long races where you need to actually refill it, don't cover the opening with plastic wrap, use a real sponge instead of that yellow mesh, works much better.

about 10 years ago when the big version of the Aqualite came out, it had a red sponge which was great for keeping stuff in, but grabbing a bottle on the side of the road and filling the bottle was bad, so they switched to that yellow plastic mesh.


----------



## 64driver

Thanks for the input I looked at the SRAM catalog and they sell the shims to adjust the FD angle.


----------



## 64driver

Awesome, I sent an email to one of the distributor in the US hopefully they get back to me soon. This weekend I start with a temporary fix or just get a Shimano FD and be done with the fuss.


----------



## stevesbike

64driver said:


> Awesome, I sent an email to one of the distributor in the US hopefully they get back to me soon. This weekend I start with a temporary fix or just get a Shimano FD and be done with the fuss.


the shimano FD doesn't fix the front-back angle issue - only a potential issue of the derailleur hitting the clamp bolts and not rising enough to get into the big chain ring. That can happen with the SRAM derailleur depending on how high it is mounted on the clamp.


----------



## 64driver

stevesbike said:


> the shimano FD doesn't fix the front-back angle issue - only a potential issue of the derailleur hitting the clamp bolts and not rising enough to get into the big chain ring. That can happen with the SRAM derailleur depending on how high it is mounted on the clamp.



OK, I will work then on some temporary shims this weekend. This is my first TT bike and is getting some time to get use to it, is almost too much bike for my skill and power level, I am not fitted properly neither. I have TUFO tubular training tires and some of the rider here in South Korea mention my tires have way too much resistance. What type of tires you riding on?


----------



## swaz

Has anyone heard or had experience with the FM015 seat stays breaking/snapping. They look really thin. I am 195lbs and am slightly concerned I might snap it as I am not exactly careful when out riding. As in I avoid pot holes, but I don't slow down for rough road. My other option is the FM028 which no one seems to have any stock of


----------



## ultraman6970

64driver said:


> OK, I will work then on some temporary shims this weekend. This is my first TT bike and is getting some time to get use to it, is almost too much bike for my skill and power level, I am not fitted properly neither. I have TUFO tubular training tires and some of the rider here in South Korea mention my tires have way too much resistance. What type of tires you riding on?


I'm part asian so i can say this big time, when u have seen a good asian rider in the road or in road TT? specially korean?? Im excluding track ok? I sound rude but just making a point, you are outta shape, 1st TT machine, so whats the problem with the tubulars? You can put the faster tubular in the market and i doubt you will get more than a couple of seconds back in this condition, besides if you have the legs you can win even riding a tricycle. To make another point, times made for some guys now a days aren't even that fantastic because is stuff done riding tanks 30 years ago.

Those tufo tubulars are reliable. faster than a clincher? yes. Reliable is the key word, a light and super fast tubular is useless if it gets punctures. That's why some tubular can go over 400 bucks a pop. Screw your friends and just get in shape, thats what u have to focus on right now 

RIde happy


----------



## BlackDoggystyle

mrbubbles said:


> TT bikes aren't too bad for long rides.
> 
> Someone should check out this from dengfu.
> 
> https://dengfu.en.alibaba.com/produ...arbon_TT_fork_carbon_TT_carbon_handlebar.html



Is this not the new Planet X Exocet TT frame? I'm sure Johan Musseeuws new TT frame is also exactly the same.


----------



## mrbubbles

BlackDoggystyle said:


> Is this not the new Planet X Exocet TT frame? I'm sure Johan Musseeuws new TT frame is also exactly the same.


Yeah.


----------



## mrbubbles

Oh yeah. That "Museeuw" frame is sold for $3000USD.

http://velomaster.co.nz/products/MUSEEUW-MC-TT-Frame-sets.html

$700, or $3000 plus logo?


----------



## Urb

I love the look of this frame. Wish there was some ride reports on it. Only thing that stops me from purchasing it is guilt that I'm not supporting my lbs. damn.


----------



## mrbubbles

Found some threads on that frame.










https://www.tritalk.co.uk/forums/viewtopic.php?t=69323

https://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2055789073


----------



## hiver2601

*838 non ISP?*

Hello all,

What a great thread,have spent some days going through version 2 and 3...I have many questions but will start with just one: Has anyone seen a 838 frame for sale, not with integrated seatpost?

Thanks, M


----------



## Urb

mrbubbles said:


> Found some threads on that frame.
> 
> http://www.tritalk.co.uk/forums/viewtopic.php?t=69323
> 
> http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2055789073


Much appreciated!


----------



## doggatas

swaz said:


> Has anyone heard or had experience with the FM015 seat stays breaking/snapping. They look really thin. I am 195lbs and am slightly concerned I might snap it as I am not exactly careful when out riding. As in I avoid pot holes, but I don't slow down for rough road. My other option is the FM028 which no one seems to have any stock of


Mine haven't snapped yet, and im around your weight, if not a little heavier.

Ive bunny hopped more than 1 gutter, handles it no problems. my ISP hasn't snapped either.

To all the skeptics i will agree with one thing these bikes are not for everyone. 

If your constantly taking your ride the LBS for maintenance and dont really have a passion in fixing/building things, i suggest you buy your bike from them and just ride, if your a DIY type person who loves wrenching(even if its not with bicycles, you can learn quite quickly thanks to youtube) then these are for you. You get a certain feeling smashing out km's knowing you've built your own bike.

After building my 1st chinese frame bike up, i dont think ill ever buy a complete bike again, unless of course its an offer i cant pass up.


----------



## snippy

Seeking fit advice for the FM015, wavering between 55 or 58:

CC Fit:










Wrench Science Fit:










55:










58:


----------



## ultraman6970

If you ask me, big chances the 55 will fit better than the 58.


----------



## ultraman6970

mrbubbles said:


> Oh yeah. That "Museeuw" frame is sold for $3000USD.
> 
> http://velomaster.co.nz/products/MUSEEUW-MC-TT-Frame-sets.html
> 
> $700, or $3000 plus logo?



I would say that it is a 500 bucks frame with a 1000 dollars paint job and 2000 dollars brand decals and 1500 in parts. The guys are doing a lot of money. I love to steal money so i could not do this at all.


----------



## mrbubbles

ultraman6970 said:


> I would say that it is a 500 bucks frame with a 1000 dollars paint job and 2000 dollars brand decals and 1500 in parts. The guys are doing a lot of money. I love to steal money so i could not do this at all.


That's a frameset, and that's in NZD, not USD. $5000 paint job plus $2000 brand decal is about right, all the big name manufacturers operate on this level, I think. Almost makes you never wanting to buy a brand name bike again.


----------



## snippy

ultraman6970 said:


> If you ask me, big chances the 55 will fit better than the 58.


What is confusing me specifically is the top tube length, my overall reach is around 670 (rounding both fits). The ett on the 55 is 547, leaving ~120 for stem, but the ett on the 58 is 567, ~100 for stem.

On the other hand, with a bb to seat height of ~74cm, the 55 leaves 190, whereas the 58, only 160.

I've always preferred a slightly smaller bike, but I seem to be smack in the middle of these two frames


----------



## mrwirey

snippy said:


> Seeking fit advice for the FM015, wavering between 55 or 58:]


Hello snippy,
I am 70.5 inches tall with a slightly shorter inseam and size 12 (American) or 47 (Euro) feet. I have an FM015 size 58cm with a 110mm stem. The center of my bottom bracket to the top of my seat measure along the seat tube is exactly 30.5 inches. The length from the tip of my seat to the center of my handlebars is 22.5 inches. This fits me perfectly. If I bought the 55cm frame I would have had to run a 130mm stem to make up the difference and the bar/seat drop would have been a bit more than I like as my personal preference is for a slightly taller head tube so I am comfortable in the drops, tops, and hoods. I also like the handling characteristics of the longer top tube better as it slows down the steering a bit. Bottom line: I think you can fit either, but the 55cm might possibly be a better choice for you.
Very respectfully, Tim


----------



## mrwirey

snippy said:


> I've always preferred a slightly smaller bike, but I seem to be smack in the middle of these two frames


Snippy,
What frames are you riding now? Size, model, and make?
V/r, Tim


----------



## snippy

mrwirey said:


> Snippy,
> What frames are you riding now? Size, model, and make?
> V/r, Tim


A fast but horribly over sized and uncomfortable old Cannondale crit series, it's a 60cm. Hard to compare. I do like the 'twitchy' steering though. - Jon


----------



## mrwirey

snippy said:


> A fast but horribly over sized and uncomfortable old Cannondale crit series, it's a 60cm. Hard to compare. I do like the 'twitchy' steering though. - Jon


Jon,
I have a 1995 56cm Cannondale R900 in my collection. I can't seem to part with it for sentimental reasons. Based on everything you say (67cm max length, longer legs than mine, prefer a quicker steering bike) you would probably be better off with a 55cm frame. I typically ride between 55cm and 57cm, but my arms are a bit longer than yours. I would say that the 58cm might be at the extreme end of your size limit. The 55cm might be at the other end of the spectrum, but you can run a longer stem and/or push your seat back to make the cockpit roomy enough for you. The only thing you need to think about is bar drop in relation to the seat as the headtube on the 55cm is shorter than the headtube on the 58cm. Good luck.
Very respectfully, Tim


----------



## snippy

Thanks Tim, My actual bb to saddle position on the bike is 29 1/2" or ~75cm. Your inseam / legs are slightly shorter and your feet a tad larger, so any thoughts on why your saddle is an inch taller?


----------



## mrwirey

snippy said:


> Thanks Tim, My actual bb to saddle position on the bike is 29 1/2" or ~75cm. Your inseam / legs are slightly shorter and your feet a tad larger, so any thoughts on why your saddle is an inch taller?


Jon,
I don't have a good answer for why my saddle would be higher. I do run it as high as is comfortable without my pelvis rocking back and forth. I don't have the best knees in the world due to broken bones and years of running so I tend to notice when my seat is lower than I like. A quarter of an inch difference is very noticeable to me. I will run the seat a bit lower if I am running a full carbon saddle with less flex or if I am running longer (175mm) crank arms, but other than that 30.5 inches is my seat height. Maybe I should try running my saddle a bit lower as an experiment; you could try running yours a bit higher. Maybe we should both be running our saddles at 30 inches.  
Very respectfully, Tim


----------



## snippy

Good idea - Jon


----------



## rruff

snippy said:


> I've always preferred a slightly smaller bike, but I seem to be smack in the middle of these two frames


If you can get your contact points in the right place with normal components, then go for the 55. One big factor is the amount of saddle to bar drop you want. I like a lot, which is why I ride a small frame with a long stem. If you like less drop, then the bigger frame might be better than running a bunch of spacers on the steerer.


----------



## e-wal

*Custom paint job*

Hi, my name is Emil and I am following this topic for quite some time now.
I am in the process of bying a frame and parts and now we're up to picking the right colors.

I would like to have RAL9010 (white) and Ferrari red (something like RAL 3024). Mina from Dengfu told me that they do not have these colors, but they use YS775 and YS7319.

Are these the same colors or are there big differences? Does anyone have experience with these colors?

I hope someone can help me with this.

Thanks

Emil


----------



## hiver2601

hiver2601 said:


> Hello all,
> 
> What a great thread,have spent some days going through version 2 and 3...I have many questions but will start with just one: Has anyone seen a 838 frame for sale, not with integrated seatpost?
> 
> Thanks, M


Answering my own question, I recieved a response from Xpace, that the the 838 is not supplied without ISP...hmmm. (Or maybe they just did not want to share info on who bought the mold and rights to it?)

Anyway, that probably drives me towards the FM830 SL (The light one that Planet X also carries as the Nanolight)

Does anyone have any dealer suggestions for who carries them? Any opinions, pros or cons forgoing for thislighter frame as opposed to the more common FM15/FM28 of this thread?

Thanks, M


----------



## ultraman6970

E-wall Probably this will answer your question

http://www.y-s-paint.com.tw/eDM/dm.asp?KindNo=YS007001


----------



## ultraman6970

snippy I know where u are hehe, im in the middle of sizes all the time, These chinese frames are short in my opinion, some people uses the frame reach to figure it out the sizing but in my personal opinion can mislead you, well probably I still need to continue working how can help me better than the Effective size of the frame. I always use the TT affective size and the other situation is that if you are between sizes the best is to go with the shorter frame because it will be easier to fit than the longer one. If you have been around for a while like me hehe happens that if the frame is too long no matter what stem you put, the fit will be weird, but it is a thing of preferences also.

good luck


----------



## satanas

^ Not so sure I agree with you.The seat angle is likely to be a bit steeper on the smaller frame, and the front centre also tends to be shorter. If you have not-so-small feet and have the cleats a bit rearward on your shoes this can result in significant overlap.

I know, most people say this doesn't matter or try to imply you are brain-damaged if you care about it, but I regularly ride in a couple of places where it's a hassle and so is better avoided. From what I can see, it's hard for me to get an acceptable top tube length (say 570mm) or front centre (say 600mm) with a frame less than 55cm nominal size at the least.

It's also rather annoying to have to use a 130+ mm stem and a bunch of spacers to get the bars in a reasonable place, although doing so will give more options.


----------



## satanas

snippy: I have the same seat height as you, but am slightly taller and have long arms (and large-ish feet). FWIW, I'd probably go for the 58cm, if only to get the longer top tube and front centre. In reality, I'm trying to find something with the same reach forward of the BB and a more sloping top tube, and thus a shorter seat tube; I wouldn't mind a slightly shorter head tube either. The Nanolight clone seems to offer a bit better fit, as does the (vastly more expensive) Giant TCR.

For me, the 15mm shorter front centre on the smaller frame is unacceptable. The frame I have now is similar and this irks me considerably - as does the too-steep-for-me 73.5 degree seat angle.


----------



## e-wal

*suggestion about sizing*

If you want the perfect bike and customize it, why not have yourself measured by a professional?

I drove to Belgium to have an expert take my sizes so I cannot only order the perfect frame, but build the perfect bike with the right cranck size, handlebar etc etc. I sent him the geometry of seven frames and he picked the one that fits me best (FM028).

I have to build the bike and he will make the final adjustments to ensure I will be in the ideal position.

On the internet you can find sites where you can fill in your sizes and the best geometry settings will be calculated.

Good luck


----------



## 64driver

ultraman6970 said:


> I'm part asian so i can say this big time, when u have seen a good asian rider in the road or in road TT? specially korean?? Im excluding track ok? I sound rude but just making a point, you are outta shape, 1st TT machine, so whats the problem with the tubulars? You can put the faster tubular in the market and i doubt you will get more than a couple of seconds back in this condition, besides if you have the legs you can win even riding a tricycle. To make another point, times made for some guys now a days aren't even that fantastic because is stuff done riding tanks 30 years ago. What????
> 
> 
> I guess I'm used to my old horse, a road bike I had since 2006. The Korean Pro riders are not too bad tough, the dude that mention my tires were too sticky saw my bike in pieces and offered help to put it together. Funk Yeah I'm out of shape but I wont win crap riding a tricycle!


----------



## Niall8can

NICE DAY!

Just a quick first post to say thanks to all the contributors to this thread.

picked up a fm015 isp in 58cm from Mina at dengfu, i shall try to resist the temptation to post chi-english style for the rest of this post. dealing with Mina was excellent; email response was prompt and helpful over the course of 20 or so emails back and forward.

i had the frame custom painted bright orange and white. I wasn't expecting much in terms of quality of finish, but was pleasantly surprised and i think it looks excellent. 

what started off swapping bits from old race bike to new frame has become a totally new bike. amazing how easily that happens ;-) 

will glady post up pictures when the build is complete. I am waiting for parts from here there and everywhere at the moment.


----------



## ColoRoadie

Pics!


----------



## Niall8can

will sort out some pics tonight when i get to my home pc.

build list will be

fm015 orange and white (about 1200g on my scales ISP uncut.)
sram force 2010 shifters and rear derailleur (derailleur tuned with white ceramic jockeys)
red front mech with rotor chain watcher
rotor 3d cranks
stronglight ct2 bioconcept rings (53,42)
pro vibe 7js white bar and stem
pro digital white bar tape.
yokozuna reaction white cables 
Kurve brakes with swisstop yellow pads.
fizik antares carbon 
kcnc ultralight cassette
planet x branded ffwd 20mm carbon wheels
kcnc QRs

seriously cant wait to get building this thing now!
i definietly know i will never buy another full bike again. i have greatly enjoyed sourcing a totally bespoke build


----------



## jobubr

Exactly "pics" there ColoRoadie!! I would love to see your 027 built up. The frame pics have had me drooling and I would love to see the complete rig.


----------



## ultraman6970

64driver said:


> [/U]
> 
> I guess I'm used to my old horse, a road bike I had since 2006. The Korean Pro riders are not too bad tough, the dude that mention my tires were too sticky saw my bike in pieces and offered help to put it together. Funk Yeah I'm out of shape but I wont win crap riding a tricycle!


True but are just tubular dude, just use them and change them, now if you are going to replace them just send them to me, i'll be happy to take them outta your hands


----------



## pedal_damn_it

quick question but do I need to specify what BB i need? Or does the 015 frame come with a English 68mm? if this makes sense? thanks for your help. One more question: do you think the Matte or clear coat (gloss) looks better. cant makeup my mind.


----------



## ClarkinHawaii

pedal_damn_it said:


> quick question but do I need to specify what BB i need? Or does the 015 frame come with a English 68mm? if this makes sense? thanks for your help. One more question: do you think the Matte or clear coat (gloss) looks better. cant makeup my mind.


It's always best to specify exactly what you want, regardless of what might be considered standard.

I prefer glossy colors or clearcoat, but dull soot black seems to be more popular at the moment.


----------



## pedal_damn_it

ClarkinHawaii said:


> It's always best to specify exactly what you want, regardless of what might be considered standard.
> 
> I prefer glossy colors or clearcoat, but dull soot black seems to be more popular at the moment.


stupid question but Dura-ace is a English 68mm? correct? before I go off and order the wrong thing.


----------



## ultraman6970

pedal_damn_it said:


> stupid question but Dura-ace is a English 68mm? correct? before I go off and order the wrong thing.


68 is the size of the bb shell (wide), the bb shell is 68 millimeters wide, english means that the thread is BSA or english standar threading. Shimano has nothing to do here.

U can have shimano BB outboard cups that are italian threaded. That makes sense now?

Ps: shimano people! damm it!


----------



## ClarkinHawaii

Esthetics?

What do you guys think about a frame in 12k finish coupled with a fork in 3k finish (both clearcoated so carbon shows).

I don't really like the idea, and can't really picture it in my mind, but if it's all that's available right now, what do you think?


----------



## ultraman6970

If you like like that just go and buy it. It is your bike


----------



## zender

ClarkinHawaii said:


> Estherics?
> 
> What do you guys think about a frame in 12k finish coupled with a fork in 3k finish (both clearcoated so carbon shows).
> 
> I don't really like the idea, and can't really picture it in my mind, but if it's all that's available right now, what do you think?


Not feelin' it, two different weaves on frame/fork. Have the fork painted a contrasting color (white never goes out of style and looks good with a clearcoated black carbon). Throw some white handlebar tape on there and you're good to go.


----------



## zender

e-wal said:


> he will make the final adjustments to ensure I will be in the ideal position.
> 
> On the internet you can find sites where you can fill in your sizes and the best geometry settings will be calculated.
> 
> Good luck



You mean kind of like the ones he already posted on the previous page? LOL.


----------



## arshak

68mm is English threading in the BB shell. 73mm is Italian threading (campy compatible). 73 mm bb is specified only for Italian made frames or if you are planning on hanging campy parts.


----------



## kip.duff

*ordered FM015*

Ordered FM015 (49cm for my daughter) 3k with HB002 and seatpost two days ago from Dengfu. Will be Dura Ace with Rolf Vector Pros. Will probably get one 55cm/matt finish for myself. Thanks to all for info..........

BTW favorite cables or cable sets? Jagwire? Wanted to get black cables....... Shimano only silver.


----------



## stubek

kip.duff said:


> Ordered FM015 (49cm for my daughter) 3k with HB002 and seatpost two days ago from Dengfu. Will be Dura Ace with Rolf Vector Pros. Will probably get one 55cm/matt finish for myself. Thanks to all for info..........
> 
> BTW favorite cables or cable sets? Jagwire? Wanted to get black cables....... Shimano only silver.


My new Scott Plasma has green Jagwire to go with the green paint and so far so good.


----------



## mrwirey

kip.duff said:


> favorite cables or cable sets?


Campagnolo Ultra Low Friction.


----------



## jobubr

@Kip.Duff
I have had good luck with jagwire cables and housing. cheap and available on all the internet stores (pricepoint, jenson, performance, etc). I have used them on about 6 different bikes over the past four years. Sure there is probably something better or more expensive, but these are economical, the same as these frames are said to be (looking but havent purchased yet) and my honda accord is.


----------



## ultraman6970

arshak said:


> 68mm is English threading in the BB shell. 73mm is Italian threading (campy compatible). 73 mm bb is specified only for Italian made frames or if you are planning on hanging campy parts.


Wrong

Actually italian BB shell is 70 mm and 36 mm X 24 tpi, 73 is MTB only just because people is used to call it like that but actually 73 is another english standar (O/S english and is used primarily in MTB bikes and hybrids, this BB shell obviously has english threading).

English is 68mm x1.370" (or 1.375) X 24 tpi or
73 mm x 1.370" (or 1.375) X 24 tpi

Campagnolo can be used with italian or english BB shells, the BB shell threads has nothing to do with the brand of the stuff you want to put in the bike, you can fit sugino cranks in a pinarello if you have the sugino italian threaded bb unit, in a matter of fact they sell it. Or any other unit that match the sugino one but in italian standar.

Still dont get why people talk about campagnolo as a 100% italian standard when it is not. You can get all the shimano stuff to fit a bike with italian BB w/o any problem at the same time this debunks a lot of myths people has. Just find a shimano overboard cups italian threaded and you will see what im talking about.

Cheers


----------



## SRS

hiver2601 said:


> Answering my own question, I recieved a response from Xpace, that the the 838 is not supplied without ISP...hmmm. (Or maybe they just did not want to share info on who bought the mold and rights to it?)
> 
> Anyway, that probably drives me towards the FM830 SL (The light one that Planet X also carries as the Nanolight)
> 
> Does anyone have any dealer suggestions for who carries them? Any opinions, pros or cons forgoing for thislighter frame as opposed to the more common FM15/FM28 of this thread?
> 
> Thanks, M



Perfectly good reason xpace dont offer this mold anymore. Take a look here:

http://www.satincesena.net/?tag=de-rosa-r848

here is the De Rosa model which uses this mold:
http://italiancyclingjournal.blogspot.com/2010/07/new-de-rosa-model-for-2011-r848-or-vega.html


I bought mine att GOTOBIKE and i am In the process of building mine up now. Hopefully getting my 88mm tubulars from yishun by next week


----------



## BlackDoggystyle

Just a question about TT frames. 

What size do you normally take in comparison with your normal race bike? I know I had my sizes taken for a TT frame when I was a pro, but that is like ages ago and can't find them any more.

I'm regular 5.9feet (180cm) with bike size 56cm (top tube) with 13cm stem. 
So do I take a 54cm or a 56cm TT frame. I guess the handlebar is closer because you want that 90° angle in the arms... 

Just need to be sure before buyin a TT frame.

greets
:thumbsup:


----------



## stubek

BlackDoggystyle said:


> Just a question about TT frames.
> 
> What size do you normally take in comparison with your normal race bike? I know I had my sizes taken for a TT frame when I was a pro, but that is like ages ago and can't find them any more.
> 
> I'm regular 5.9feet (180cm) with bike size 56cm (top tube) with 13cm stem.
> So do I take a 54cm or a 56cm TT frame. I guess the handlebar is closer because you want that 90° angle in the arms...
> 
> Just need to be sure before buyin a TT frame.
> 
> greets
> :thumbsup:


In general, once size smaller, BUT that is very general and specific to the normal frame and the TT frame you choose.

I ride a Scott CR1 Pro 54 and in both the Trek Equinox and my new Scott Plasma, I ride a 52.

Best to really carefully look at geometries and test ride frames. If you are thinking of these Chinese frames for a TT, you will probably have trouble finding one for a test ride, but you can look at the geometry and find name brands with close matches and find a shop where you can test ride them.


----------



## rruff

BlackDoggystyle said:


> So do I take a 54cm or a 56cm TT frame. I guess the handlebar is closer because you want that 90° angle in the arms...


The specifics on every bike are different. I'd determine how much saddle to pad drop you want and make sure you can set the bike up that way with minimal spacers. The rest is easy to adjust to your liking, especially if you use adjustable bars.


----------



## hiver2601

SRS said:


> Perfectly good reason xpace dont offer this mold anymore. Take a look here:
> 
> http://www.satincesena.net/?tag=de-rosa-r848
> 
> here is the De Rosa model which uses this mold:
> http://italiancyclingjournal.blogspot.com/2010/07/new-de-rosa-model-for-2011-r848-or-vega.html
> 
> 
> I bought mine att GOTOBIKE and i am In the process of building mine up now. Hopefully getting my 88mm tubulars from yishun by next week


SRS, thanks for the link. However, I am in doubt which frame model number you bought from Goto? the 838 with ISP? or?


----------



## Crawf

Have been following these threads for a while now, I took the plunge and ordered an FM028 in matte for me & an FM015 in girly colors for the missus which are both on order from Dengfu.

Also thought I'd try out the 38mm carbon clinchers wheelset from Jenny @ Hongfu.
Problem is, the wheelset turned up, but it wasnt built! 
If I would of known this I would have purchased better quality local hubs and spokes!
Bit of a hassle, but I guess I'll at least know who will build them...


----------



## SRS

hiver2601 said:


> SRS, thanks for the link. However, I am in doubt which frame model number you bought from Goto? the 838 with ISP? or?


At gotobike i guess they call it FM239:

http://carbon-products.en.alibaba.com/product/330999160-200176927/carbon_frame.html

There is a number under the bottom bracket and it starts with the letters XP, can anyone confirm that this is actualy a xpace made frame, or is this just a coincident?


----------



## hiver2601

SRS said:


> At gotobike i guess they call it FM239:
> 
> http://carbon-products.en.alibaba.com/product/330999160-200176927/carbon_frame.html
> 
> There is a number under the bottom bracket and it starts with the letters XP, can anyone confirm that this is actualy a xpace made frame, or is this just a coincident?


SRS, somehow I missed this frame inmyt former run throughs, sounds like it fulfills my primary demands of a low weight BB30 frame with NON-ISP. Now, I only hope it will fit me. What size are you getting? do you have the geometry specs by any chance?

Thanks, M


----------



## Spursrider

The 838 frame with non-ISP is available at other sellers too :

http://www.carbonbikeshop.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=72&products_id=225

http://www.alibaba.com/product-gs/324527937/TP_R808S_Carbon_bike_frame.html


----------



## zender

Crawf said:


> Have been following these threads for a while now, I took the plunge and ordered an FM028 in matte for me & an FM015 in girly colors for the missus which are both on order from Dengfu.
> 
> Also thought I'd try out the 38mm carbon clinchers wheelset from Jenny @ Hongfu.
> Problem is, the wheelset turned up, but it wasnt built!
> If I would of known this I would have purchased better quality local hubs and spokes!
> Bit of a hassle, but I guess I'll at least know who will build them...


ebay the hubs and spokes get what you want, if you're going to be paying for having them built anyway. That's pretty unacceptable that they forget to mention the wheels aren't built!


----------



## hiver2601

Spursrider said:


> The 838 frame with non-ISP is available at other sellers too :
> 
> http://www.carbonbikeshop.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=72&products_id=225
> 
> http://www.alibaba.com/product-gs/324527937/TP_R808S_Carbon_bike_frame.html


Great, thanks! Have emailed them, still do not know the geometry, but must assume it is like the 838...


----------



## mrbubbles

Has anyone tried hagging and bargaining?

I got $610 for the TT frame + $85 for shipping, which seems a bit steep. At least the headset is cheap, $14.


----------



## Urb

mrbubbles said:


> Has anyone tried hagging and bargaining?
> 
> I got $610 for the TT frame + $85 for shipping, which seems a bit steep. At least the headset is cheap, $14.


funny you say that. If it was a little shop in china town I bet you could haggle down to 1/2 the price. ok maybe not 1/2 but a few hundred off easy. Same if you could visit the factory but that isn't feasable.

What frame did you pick up?


----------



## stubek

mrbubbles said:


> Has anyone tried hagging and bargaining?
> 
> I got $610 for the TT frame + $85 for shipping, which seems a bit steep. At least the headset is cheap, $14.


feel free to go to your lbs and pick up a TT frame. If you get a full carbon one for $610, buy a second and ebay it


----------



## vis8892

mrbubbles said:


> Has anyone tried hagging and bargaining?
> 
> I got $610 for the TT frame + $85 for shipping, which seems a bit steep. At least the headset is cheap, $14.


I worked with DengFu, HongFu and Miracle Trading for an FM015. Only HongFu was willing to come down in price, but DengFu was still the lowest.


----------



## mrbubbles

Urb said:


> funny you say that. If it was a little shop in china town I bet you could haggle down to 1/2 the price. ok maybe not 1/2 but a few hundred off easy. Same if you could visit the factory but that isn't feasable.
> 
> What frame did you pick up?


Oh I didn't buy it. I inquired Mina at Dengfu about the FM021 frame.

Which is this below.










Planet X is selling the same thing for $1450 (frame + fork).

https://www.planet-x-bikes.co.uk/i/q/ZXFRPXEX/Planet X Exocet Frame

So, buying one Planet X Exocet can get you 2 unpainted ones from the factory.


----------



## Local Hero

BlackDoggystyle said:


> Just a question about TT frames.
> 
> What size do you normally take in comparison with your normal race bike? I know I had my sizes taken for a TT frame when I was a pro, but that is like ages ago and can't find them any more.
> 
> I'm regular 5.9feet (180cm) with bike size 56cm (top tube) with 13cm stem.
> So do I take a 54cm or a 56cm TT frame. I guess the handlebar is closer because you want that 90° angle in the arms...
> 
> Just need to be sure before buyin a TT frame.
> 
> greets
> :thumbsup:


We're about the same size. Please let us know what you decide.


----------



## CyKlo

vis8892 said:


> I worked with DengFu, HongFu and Miracle Trading for an FM015. Only HongFu was willing to come down in price, but DengFu was still the lowest.


vis8892,
I am currently waiting for a final price from Mina @ DengFu for the FM015 + fork + derailleur + matte black paint finish + head set and shipping as well. If you don't mind me asking.......what exactly did you pay and what exactly did you get from them? Thank you!


----------



## ultraman6970

Crawf said:


> Have been following these threads for a while now, I took the plunge and ordered an FM028 in matte for me & an FM015 in girly colors for the missus which are both on order from Dengfu.
> 
> Also thought I'd try out the 38mm carbon clinchers wheelset from Jenny @ Hongfu.
> Problem is, the wheelset turned up, but it wasnt built!
> If I would of known this I would have purchased better quality local hubs and spokes!
> Bit of a hassle, but I guess I'll at least know who will build them...


If you are in virginia or dc metro area i can built the wheels for you for free or whatever u want to give me.


----------



## CJSB

Check out CarbonZone on Ebay. They have a TT01 3K TT frame which looks pretty solid. I've been emailling back and forth with Echo, seems good..

Anyone order from them?


----------



## stevemtu

*yep*



CJSB said:


> Check out CarbonZone on Ebay. They have a TT01 3K TT frame which looks pretty solid. I've been emailling back and forth with Echo, seems good..
> 
> Anyone order from them?


I picked up a mtb frame via ebay from carbonzone about a month ago. very efficient shipping and a nice product.

Looking at his FM015 now...


----------



## adam_mac84

Well, i finally pulled the trigger on my FM028 from Dengfu. I had been emailing with Mina through their company, and had probably 30+ emails back/forth, and she was always responsive within 24-48 hours and her understanding of my english and crappy spelling was actually quite good.

Ordered frame/fork/headset/bottle cages/spacers/seatpost from them. Will post pics/review when i get it all home and unpacked

I have already gotten my all black 105 group in the mail now, and a couple tools (bb tool and lockring key).

Now i have to look into finding a torque wrench or borrowing one since i have not wrenched on full carbon parts yet. I was thinking about getting a 5nm key (ritchey brand?) for the FD and stem on steerer. crank bolts and BB are high enough torque to use a torque wrench from autozone (free tool rental program)


----------



## vis8892

CyKlo said:


> vis8892,
> I am currently waiting for a final price from Mina @ DengFu for the FM015 + fork + derailleur + matte black paint finish + head set and shipping as well. If you don't mind me asking.......what exactly did you pay and what exactly did you get from them? Thank you!


Frame and fork - 380USD For FM015 ISP+fork with 3k weave;
handlebars - 48usd for HB003 3k finish;
all carbon stem - 48usd for stem size 120mm 3k weave;
headset - 15usd for headset
4 bottle cages - 9usd for bottle cage 3k finish; FD006;

$80 for shipping, total was $607 then add 3.7% ($22) for paypal.

The non-isp frame was quoted as $350 and $30 for a seatpost. You'll probably pay $45 or so more for the matte finish - I went 3K clear.


----------



## Harrier1

Hi guys. First time on the forum for me. Im from the UK and looking at buying one of the FM018 defungi frames from China. Looks like a few of you have a TT bike built up with this frame. Just wondered if a 23mm clincher tyre on the rear wheel will fit between the seat stays and chainset. It looks quite tight from the pictures. I race on a 22mm veloflex but would want to train on 22mm.

Hope you can help

Regards

Rob (Doncaster Wheelers)


----------



## arshak

Pretty sure a 23mm tire will fit in there. This kind of idiocy (I.e. Narrow high pressure 18mm tires was) prevalent in the late eighties and early '90's. Thankfully, testing has shown that a 25mm tire in the front helps more than a 20/23mm tire combined with a 23mm tire in the back


----------



## zender

adam_mac84 said:


> Well, i finally pulled the trigger on my FM028 from Dengfu. I had been emailing with Mina through their company, and had probably 30+ emails back/forth, and she was always responsive within 24-48 hours and her understanding of my english and crappy spelling was actually quite good.
> 
> Ordered frame/fork/headset/bottle cages/spacers/seatpost from them. Will post pics/review when i get it all home and unpacked
> 
> I have already gotten my all black 105 group in the mail now, and a couple tools (bb tool and lockring key).
> 
> Now i have to look into finding a torque wrench or borrowing one since i have not wrenched on full carbon parts yet. I was thinking about getting a 5nm key (ritchey brand?) for the FD and stem on steerer. crank bolts and BB are high enough torque to use a torque wrench from autozone (free tool rental program)


Not sure where you live, but you can get a 1/2" socket torque wrench from Sears for about 30 bucks. Pick up a set of 1/2" socket metric hex bits in 3-12mm size and you should be set. Not sure what autozone lends you, but the torque specs on automobile bolts are typically pretty high so their loaner might not give you the range you want for bike parts. Admittedly, even the Sears one is not going to be as good as a fancy digital one for really low torque settings - but if it's that litte torque, then it's obviously not holding two things together that are liable to fall apart and cause you to die (e.g. bottle cages), so you can just guesstimate.


----------



## jkuo

It may not, the Planet X Exocet (which is the same as one of the Chinese TT frames) has clearance issues with 22mm tires. Some people have had to run 20mm tires. 



arshak said:


> Pretty sure a 23mm tire will fit in there. This kind of idiocy (I.e. Narrow high pressure 18mm tires was) prevalent in the late eighties and early '90's. Thankfully, testing has shown that a 25mm tire in the front helps more than a 20/23mm tire combined with a 23mm tire in the back


----------



## zender

This probably doesn't help, but FWIW, on the FM028 and FM012 : 23mm tubulars and clinchers cleared the rear stays.


----------



## adam_mac84

zender said:


> This probably doesn't help, but FWIW, on the FM028 and FM012 : 23mm tubulars and clinchers cleared the rear stays.


I am hoping to see if 25's will fit. I currently ride 25's on my alum bike, and do so to lessen the harshness of the ride, maybe i can roll 23's with carbon... time will tell


----------



## karlo

*DengFu Factory images*

After looking at the pictures from HongFu I wanted to know how Tony and Mina at DengFu work and see who handled my frame and other items and no I didn't go visit them but asked him if he could take some pictures and send them to me. He sent these to me this morning but will be sending more tomorrow, i asked if he can send me some pictures of the process in making the frames, forks ..etc. and also a picture of Mina and himself, let's see if he sends them to me later.

I didn't want to post them all here so I just uploaded them to my site:

click here:
DengFu Factory Images


----------



## Urb

@Karlo

Thanks, your efforts are much appreciated.

Dengfu looks like a clean operation. Organized. Starting to sway me towards a purchase.


----------



## stubek

karlo said:


> After looking at the pictures from HongFu I wanted to know how Tony and Mina at DengFu work and see who handled my frame and other items and no I didn't go visit them but asked him if he could take some pictures and send them to me. He sent these to me this morning but will be sending more tomorrow, i asked if he can send me some pictures of the process in making the frames, forks ..etc. and also a picture of Mina and himself, let's see if he sends them to me later.
> 
> I didn't want to post them all here so I just uploaded them to my site:
> 
> click here:
> DengFu Factory Images


Thanks for the picks.
The bike that says five rings goes to a place by me. It is Fives Rings Cycling Center. They are a training center and sell a few bikes, but the two owners are from Belarus; one was the national champ for 3 years in the 70s-80s and the other was an Olympic medalist on the track in 1976!

I always though this is where they get there bikes, but they sell the frames for $1,198.


----------



## CyKlo

karlo said:


> After looking at the pictures from HongFu I wanted to know how Tony and Mina at DengFu work and see who handled my frame and other items and no I didn't go visit them but asked him if he could take some pictures and send them to me. He sent these to me this morning but will be sending more tomorrow, i asked if he can send me some pictures of the process in making the frames, forks ..etc. and also a picture of Mina and himself, let's see if he sends them to me later.
> 
> I didn't want to post them all here so I just uploaded them to my site:
> 
> click here:
> DengFu Factory Images


Karlo, that is awesome and once again very helpful. You have been most beneficial on this post and PM. I am pulling the trigger on the FM015 from Hot DengFu as well. Waiting for invoice from Mina momentarily. I will add that she has been very responsive and cordial also. Once all is in place etc. I will post some pics too. 

Look forward to any additional photos they may provide.

Cheers.:thumbsup:


----------



## zender

Cool to see those pics. About what I expected. Wonder where the molds are, this looks like a prep work area.


----------



## ClarkinHawaii

zender said:


> Cool to see those pics. About what I expected. Wonder where the molds are, this looks like a prep work area.


I could be mistaken, but I believe HongFu makes the frames that DengFu sells. I believe this because Jenny referred to DengFu as "their customer"--although I'm never 100% sure of anything with the language barrier.


----------



## srracer

Makes sense.. The pics really just show a nice clean paint shop. Would be interesting if it turns out that Deng Fu's paintjobs are slightly better since it's not clear that they can differentiate themselves any other way...

-Chris


----------



## adam_mac84

ClarkinHawaii said:


> I could be mistaken, but I believe HongFu makes the frames that DengFu sells. I believe this because Jenny referred to DengFu as "their customer"--although I'm never 100% sure of anything with the language barrier.


i think theres something to this. But I had asked jenny if they had any 60cm frames, she said they did not (i was more comfortable at that time with the responses for hongfu). anyhow, if hongfu supplied dengfu, i would think that their supply should be larger than dengfu (the only that had 60cm)


----------



## swaz

Can someone confirm that when you buy the headset from the supplier that it comes with the fork crown race?


----------



## mrwirey

*I just ordered another FM028*

I feel the need to build a new single speed. I just gave mine away (today), which gives me an excuse to build another! Isn't it wonderful how our mind's work! Anyway, I thought I would share my order details to give you an idea whay the current costs associated with an FM028 purchase are. I sent Mina my request. She sent back the costs and total price. I said, "send me a PI or Proforma Invoice." She did. I sent the money via PayPal. The entire process took 30 minutes.
Very respectfully, Tim
P.S. The TREK District Carbon costs about $3,500...It's a frickin' single speed!


----------



## snippy

mrwirey said:


> I feel the need to build a new single speed


Tim, you really have a case of the cheap carbon fever. Just when It appeared you had been successfully treated - twice - it re-emerged 

Today I measured my bike thoroughly against the geometry of the fm015. The 58 was just going to be too large so I've settled on the 55cm and am working with Mina now  Thanks again for your help. - Jon


----------



## mrwirey

*Snippy...*

...Good for you! I am sure you will enjoy building and riding your FM015 and I hope to see pictures! And yes I am a compulsive obsessive, but I will not be buying any more bikes (this year).  
Very respectfully, Tim


----------



## mrwirey

swaz said:


> Can someone confirm that when you buy the headset from the supplier that it comes with the fork crown race?


The answer is yes.
Very respectfully, Tim


----------



## bwatson87

*FM015 frame weights*

So I'm about to purchase an FM015 frame from DengFu, HongFu not having one in stock for the next month in my size (55cm or 53cm - I'm 5'10" and 31" inseam, tend to favour a longer seatpost).

My question is this, Jenny from HongFu quoted me 1000 +/- 15g for the frame, Mina from DengFu quoted me 1200. 

Is there really a 200g difference in weight between the companies' products?

Would anyone with experience of either like to weigh in on this? (Pun intended)

Thanks,

Ben


----------



## mrwirey

bwatson87 said:


> My question is this, Jenny from HongFu quoted me 1000 +/- 15g for the frame, Mina from DengFu quoted me 1200. Would anyone with experience of either like to weigh in on this? (Pun intended)
> 
> Thanks,
> 
> Ben


Ben,
Jenny and Mina are probably both correct. The frame weight varies by size due to the increase or decrease in material required for the specific sizes. My 58cm FM015 from HongFu weighed 1,120 grams (with only the plastic cable guide under the BB installed; no seat post clamp; no derailleur clamp; no cable adjusters on the down tubes). There is more than likely a +/- 20 gram difference as you go up or down in size.
Very respectfully, Tim


----------



## asad137

mrwirey said:


> Ben,
> Jenny and Mina are probably both correct. The frame weight varies by size due to the increase or decrease in material required for the specific sizes. My 58cm FM015 from HongFu weighed 1,120 grams (with only the plastic cable guide under the BB installed; no seat post clamp; no derailleur clamp; no cable adjusters on the down tubes). There is more than likely a +/- 20 gram difference as you go up or down in size.
> Very respectfully, Tim


I wonder, if DengFu is really more of a paint shop than a manufacturer, that HongFu are quoting unpainted frame weights but DengFu are quoting it with paint. 200g is a lot of paint, but...maybe it's not crazy.

Asad


----------



## ericjacobsen3

My Hongfu FM015 55cm weighed 1140g with only the bb cable guide and derailleur hanger (no seat clamp or bottle bolts). Fork was 400g before cutting and about 360g after cutting to leave a half inch of spacer under the stem.

A friend's weighed 1160g in a 58cm size.


----------



## tnajner

*Pinarello Prince like frame*

Hi All,

I am new to this forum and I am thinking about buying Pinarello Prince like chinese frame (RFM101 either from GreatKeenBike.com or from ebay). I would like to know your experience with this frame. How is the ride? How is the stiffness compared to other frame like FM015 or something similar? Is it stiff or is flexy? What is the quality of the frame - means quality of carbon. One important thing is sizing. I am thinking about 56 cm, am 5 11 tall and have inseam 32 inches - would 56 cm be ok or 54 cm would be enough? I would be thankful for any other info.

Cheers:thumbsup: 

Tomas


----------



## mrwirey

tnajner said:


> Hi All,
> I am thinking about 56 cm, am 5 11 tall and have inseam 32 inches - would 56 cm be ok or 54 cm would be enough?
> Tomas


Tomas,
I am about your height and inseam and was also thinking of a Pinarello frame at one time; however, I thought even the 56cm might even be too small for me due to the short effective top tube and short head tube. IMHO I don't think I would go with the 54cm.

Very respectfully, Tim


----------



## tnajner

mrwirey said:


> Tomas,
> I am about your height and inseam and was also thinking of a Pinarello frame at one time; however, I thought even the 56cm might even be too small for me due to the short effective top tube and short head tube. IMHO I don't think I would go with the 54cm.
> 
> Very respectfully, Tim



Thanks:thumbsup: Mrwirey. 

that 54 cm, it was just wishful thinking. So at least 56 cm is the way to go. 

Hopefully somebody (who owns that frame or has experience with it) will answer my other questions.


----------



## BlackDoggystyle

@Asad:

Dengfu has a bunch of other frames that HongFu doesn't have. 

I bought the FM28 actually 2 months before they actually made one in size 56cm. I mailed around, HongFu also, and no one else made FM28 at the time. I saw a drawing of the frame on the DengFu site and only wanted to buy this frame. 

All the TT frames they have are nothing like HongFu has, except the last one...and if you see how good respons the FM028 and the FM018 TT frame has, don't you think HongFu would start to sell them as well?

btw...DengFu are developing a MTB with almost the same caracterestics of the FM028 road frame. They are progressing...while Hongfu has the same frames as like a year ago and there "new" frames are just the old ones in ISP¨.


btw...You can't find HongFu on alibaba...how come?


----------



## ClarkinHawaii

BlackDoggystyle said:


> @Asad:
> 
> Dengfu has a bunch of other frames that HongFu doesn't have.
> 
> I bought the FM28 actually 2 months before they actually made one in size 56cm. I mailed around, HongFu also, and no one else made FM28 at the time. I saw a drawing of the frame on the DengFu site and only wanted to buy this frame.
> 
> All the TT frames they have are nothing like HongFu has, except the last one...and if you see how good respons the FM028 and the FM018 TT frame has, don't you think HongFu would start to sell them as well?
> 
> btw...DengFu are developing a MTB with almost the same caracterestics of the FM028 road frame. They are progressing...while Hongfu has the same frames as like a year ago and there "new" frames are just the old ones in ISP¨.
> 
> 
> btw...You can't find HongFu on alibaba...how come?


My guess is that HongFu has made the decision that they would prefer wholesaling to outfits like DengFu rather than selling individually.

DengFu may get unfinished bike frames from other companies as well as the ones they get from hongFu.

I asked Jenny about the FM028--Here's what she said:

"Hi,Clark 
thanks for your email!
I'm so sorry I do not can find the fork fit this frame. and FM028 is our customer's model.
so we do not can sale to you directly. you can order our FM015 to me directly,this is our OEM model.
looking forward hearing from you!

best regards!
Jenny "


----------



## toadbiker

*torque wrench*



adam_mac84 said:


> Now i have to look into finding a torque wrench or borrowing one since i have not wrenched on full carbon parts yet.


try harborfreight - they often have sales on torque wrenches that ASE mechanics and enthusiasts have tested and say are just as good as the $100+ dollar wrenches...

I have a couple and they are good to go

www.harborfreight.com

http://www.harborfreight.com/catalogsearch/result?category=&q=torque

lots of 20% off coupons and these are often on sale for about $15 - yep they are that low cost but incredible values


----------



## jwcurry83

I have my eye on this frame offered by Miracle Trade; it is considered their MC025-SPL frame, with MO009 fork. The frame is most similar to the 2008 Ridley Noah, the models without internal cables and with a straight top tube (the geometries of the two models are fairly close). They offer this frame in sizes 51cm, 53cm, & 55cm... $415 clear coat 3k/12k/UD... $455 logo & painting

I currently ride a 54cm Scott Speedster, so I am thinking the 53cm will be good for me. Does anyone have any experience with this frame, or a similar model? I am looking for an aero frame to be used for road races and an occasional sprint triathlon (I cannot afford a separate TT bike). I like the looks of the oversized ISP and the cutout of the seat tube!


----------



## BlackDoggystyle

That's another good lloking TT frame!

@Clark: So DengFu owns the "blueprint" of the frame but HongFu makes them...know I understand.

You can guess how much a frame realy costs for brands like Ridley, Merckx, ect...if they buy directly @ the real manufacturer if you see DengFu askin like 390USD for a frame and still make money on it while they don't even make it themselves. 

"Hi-end" brands are making some big money...


----------



## jwcurry83

Its actually not a TT frame, it is a road frame with road geometry... which is why I am so intrigued by it


----------



## ultraman6970

That stubby looks pretty nice.


----------



## DRAwpt

jwcurry83 said:


> I have my eye on this frame offered by Miracle Trade; it is considered their MC025-SPL frame, with MO009 fork. The frame is most similar to the 2008 Ridley Noah, the models without internal cables and with a straight top tube (the geometries of the two models are fairly close). They offer this frame in sizes 51cm, 53cm, & 55cm... $415 clear coat 3k/12k/UD... $455 logo & painting
> 
> I currently ride a 54cm Scott Speedster, so I am thinking the 53cm will be good for me. Does anyone have any experience with this frame, or a similar model? I am looking for an aero frame to be used for road races and an occasional sprint triathlon (I cannot afford a separate TT bike). I like the looks of the oversized ISP and the cutout of the seat tube!



I contacted them a few months ago. The one that you show has only one set of water-bottle bosses, so you might want to check on whether they have one with 2 sets yet.
It really doesn't have aero-shaped tubing, more diamond and squared off shapes.


----------



## foofighter

BlackDoggystyle said:


> .
> 
> "Hi-end" brands are making some big money...


that is a HUGE understatement! Imagine too that they probably get quantity discounts as well if they produce thousands of these frames they're cost must be really low.

it's amazing though that a frame builder like pinarello, gets it made in the far east has it shipped back and the finish work (clean/paint) done in Italy and they charge upwards of 5k for a FRAME...when it probably costs them under $300? maybe less to produce?


----------



## swaz

Ive been going from dengfu and hongfu trying to decide what to get. Hongfu have no 028 but dengfu do. Honfu did quote me a price that was $80 more than dengfu for the 015... Go figure. I really want an 028 but none in stock with "soon" being given as an arrival date.


----------



## BlackDoggystyle

foofighter said:


> that is a HUGE understatement! Imagine too that they probably get quantity discounts as well if they produce thousands of these frames they're cost must be really low.
> 
> it's amazing though that a frame builder like pinarello, gets it made in the far east has it shipped back and the finish work (clean/paint) done in Italy and they charge upwards of 5k for a FRAME...when it probably costs them under $300? maybe less to produce?


Well... When I was a pro @ a smaller Belgium Pro team we had some problems with our bikes (GIRS or something like that) and half season still not everybody had a 2nd frame... So Ridley jumped in and gave the riders the possibility to buy frales and smaller prices. 

It was the first year that they came out with the DAMOCLES ...the one with the futuristic (at the time) tubing and the sword on top tube. The frame costed 2500€ in the shops, while the shops had to pay 2000€ for it (low profit for shop if you ask me)...

We could buy it for.... 350€...and they still made some money on it. And Ridley itself is like only a dozen of people workin there...they are makin LOTS of money. Merckx jumped in the same path of buyin asiatic frames as soon as he notice the low effort/hi profit of this way of doing bussiness. 

I'm sure I never buy a brand frame again...


----------



## mrbubbles

Anybody know who makes Eddy Merckx Emx-5? Without the paint it looks like a typical China frame.


----------



## asherstash1

tnajner said:


> Hi All,
> 
> I am new to this forum and I am thinking about buying Pinarello Prince like chinese frame (RFM101 either from GreatKeenBike.com or from ebay). I would like to know your experience with this frame. How is the ride? How is the stiffness compared to other frame like FM015 or something similar? Is it stiff or is flexy? What is the quality of the frame - means quality of carbon. One important thing is sizing. I am thinking about 56 cm, am 5 11 tall and have inseam 32 inches - would 56 cm be ok or 54 cm would be enough? I would be thankful for any other info.
> 
> Cheers:thumbsup:
> 
> Tomas


this question has been asked before and never answered properley, mr perkles is the most recent to get his but may not have built it up yet, some dude called horseface had his 56cm built up and said it was as smooth as his time vx special pro. which is a pretty esoteric review tbh. there has to be more people with them lol, perhaps they're ashamed to post because someone normally chimes in with the old "why you want a "fake pinarello""? lol, mine should be here in the next 5 days!! all i need is my groupset now  in the meantime if people do have ride reports and stuff please stick em up!


----------



## alexb618

mrbubbles said:


> Anybody know who makes Eddy Merckx Emx-5? Without the paint it looks like a typical China frame.


merckx are very open about the fact that they are rebranded pinarello frames


----------



## ClarkinHawaii

Pinarello Prince frameset $799 (New--2005 model)

http://www.bonktown.com/?CMP_ID=ODAL_FFP9001&mv_pc=r1005


----------



## nealric

ClarkinHawaii said:


> Pinarello Prince frameset $799 (New--2005 model)
> 
> http://www.bonktown.com/?CMP_ID=ODAL_FFP9001&mv_pc=r1005



... Aluminum frame. 

Is that the last year Pinarello made aluminium princes?


----------



## MrPerkles

Just finished spraying mine,wont build it until after the winter though


----------



## ClarkinHawaii

for those who may be wondering:

this is 3K:









this is Unidirectional (UD):









this is 12K:


----------



## Local Hero

ClarkinHawaii said:


> for those who may be wondering:
> 
> this is 3K:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> this is Unidirectional (UD):
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> this is 12K:


Thank you. 

Aside from threads per weave, are there other differences? 



Are some weaves stronger than others?

Which is the best choice?


----------



## ClarkinHawaii

There are subtle differences, but I think that from the point of view of a bike frame buyer, it boils down to which pattern looks better to you. I may be wrong on this--I suspect somebody will let me know if I am!
\
Edit--Also, remember that this is just one thin layer at the surface, more for decorative purposes than anything else--the stuff underneath is the same no matter what pattern you choose for the surface (finish) layer. Again--somebody correct me if I'm wrong.


----------



## ClarkinHawaii

Here are vinyl transfers made up at my request for the FM001--cost $20:









The only Pinarello they have currently is this one:









But I'm sure they would make up a set for the Pinarello Prince for $20. They've already got a wide selection:
http://www.bikesdecals.com/kuota-c-75.html

The transfer onto my frame was pretty simple--unfortunately, because of all the curves and sculpted hollows in the frame, i made a couple of less-than-perfect installations. You don't get a chance to practice before the real thing. All told, it looks pretty good. The vinyl letters are raised, of course, so i can't testify to longevity.


----------



## mrbubbles

BlackDoggystyle said:


> We could buy it for.... 350€...and they still made some money on it. And Ridley itself is like only a dozen of people workin there...they are makin LOTS of money. Merckx jumped in the same path of buyin asiatic frames as soon as he notice the low effort/hi profit of this way of doing bussiness.


So, you paid 350€ for a Ridley Damocles? Damn.


----------



## kk5551

Mr Perkles - Looks fantastic. Did you spray yourself or have someone do it? Would you mind sharing some tips?

- Did you order the frame with a clearcoat or did you order just a raw carbon?
- What were the steps you took to get a result?
- Did you clearcoat over your decals? etc..

Thank you!


----------



## bwatson87

So I'm about to order a FM015 from Dengfu. Hoping for a bit of advice on two points:

(1) Size - I'm torn between a 53 and a 55cm frame. I'm 5'10, 30.5" inseam, 80kg, almost exactly average proportioned. I think the 55 works better for me based on fit calculators, but I like an aggressive riding position and look of a long seat post. Think I could get away with a 53?

(2) Build - I've collected most of the bits to build the bike up. I have zero experience with bicycle maintenance other than changing tyres and replacing bar tape. I'm game for learning some bike mechanics, but how much of an investement in time and kit would this represent? Would I be better just paying a bike shop to do it? If I was to build up the frame myself, what tools would I need?

Many thanks

Ben


----------



## zender

mrwirey said:


> I feel the need to build a new single speed. I just gave mine away (today), which gives me an excuse to build another! Isn't it wonderful how our mind's work! Anyway, I thought I would share my order details to give you an idea whay the current costs associated with an FM028 purchase are. I sent Mina my request. She sent back the costs and total price. I said, "send me a PI or Proforma Invoice." She did. I sent the money via PayPal. The entire process took 30 minutes.
> Very respectfully, Tim
> P.S. The TREK District Carbon costs about $3,500...It's a frickin' single speed!


I assume you picked the 028 because of the horizontal dropouts. Am I correct?

Are you bothered by the short headtube for a single speed? Are you just going to spacer it up? I ask this because the thought of building a carbon SS has crossed my mind too. But, I haven't seen a road geometry frame with a horizontal dropout yet. I have the FM028 built up as a TT bike but to get the handlebars high enough for a more road friendly position, I'd have to put more than the usual 1-2" of spacers in there. The headtube is pretty short.


----------



## robpar

zender said:


> I assume you picked the 028 because of the horizontal dropouts. Am I correct?
> 
> Are you bothered by the short headtube for a single speed? Are you just going to spacer it up? I ask this because the thought of building a carbon SS has crossed my mind too. But, I haven't seen a road geometry frame with a horizontal dropout yet. I have the FM028 built up as a TT bike but to get the handlebars high enough for a more road friendly position, I'd have to put more than the usual 1-2" of spacers in there. The headtube is pretty short.


head tube short? based on the Geo the FM028; actually, it seems to have a more relaxed geo with a taller head tube... the 56 has a 170 HeadTube which similar to a Trek H2 fit


----------



## zender

bwatson87 said:


> So I'm about to order a FM015 from Dengfu. Hoping for a bit of advice on two points:
> 
> (1) Size - I'm torn between a 53 and a 55cm frame. I'm 5'10, 30.5" inseam, 80kg, almost exactly average proportioned. I think the 55 works better for me based on fit calculators, but I like an aggressive riding position and look of a long seat post. Think I could get away with a 53?
> 
> (2) Build - I've collected most of the bits to build the bike up. I have zero experience with bicycle maintenance other than changing tyres and replacing bar tape. I'm game for learning some bike mechanics, but how much of an investement in time and kit would this represent? Would I be better just paying a bike shop to do it? If I was to build up the frame myself, what tools would I need?
> 
> Many thanks
> 
> Ben


I'd say pick the one that comes out correctly in your sizing charts rather than one with a lot of exposed seatpost.

You can get a lot of help building on Youtube - there are all sorts of videos on how to install everything. However, if it's your fist build, you're going to want to work slow so you don't have to take stuff apart and re-do it. You'll need some screwdrivers, a set of metric allen keys, a torque wrench with allen bits, a chaintool, good quality cable cutters, a crimping tool, a bottom bracket tool for whatever type you are going to use and if it's a bit to fit a socket wrench you need the socket wrench, a cassette tool and a hex wrench to fit it (often 1 or 24mm) , a pedal wrench, some loctite, grease and/or anti-sieze compound. You might wind up needing a chainwhip if you need to remove the cassette for some reason. Ideally, it would be nice to have a building stand and an indoor trainer - those are not absolutely necessary but it makes putting the drivetrain together much easier.


----------



## MrPerkles

kk5551 said:


> Mr Perkles - Looks fantastic. Did you spray yourself or have someone do it? Would you mind sharing some tips?
> 
> - Did you order the frame with a clearcoat or did you order just a raw carbon?
> - What were the steps you took to get a result?
> - Did you clearcoat over your decals? etc..
> 
> Thank you!


If you are going to spray it properly dont order with clearcoat you will only have to get it off
I use polyester base for colours and about 4-5 coats 2k acrylic for the final clear 
Let the paint flash off between coats be meticulous with cleanliness and you will get a good result
GL


----------



## tnajner

MrPerkles said:


> Just finished spraying mine,wont build it until after the winter though


MrPerkles 

that paint job looks great. Is it 54 cm, isnt it. Who did you order from? Ebay or Greatkeen? How much did it cost you?

Hope to see your review of that frame soon

Thanks for answers


----------



## IRMB

ClarkinHawaii said:


> for those who may be wondering:
> this is Unidirectional (UD):


that isn't UD.

This is UD.


----------



## rruff

bwatson87 said:


> I'm torn between a 53 and a 55cm frame. I'm 5'10, 30.5" inseam, 80kg, almost exactly average proportioned. I think the 55 works better for me based on fit calculators, but I like an aggressive riding position and look of a long seat post. Think I could get away with a 53?


If by aggressive you mean a large saddle-bar drop, then by all means get the 53. You might not be able to get the bars low enough on the 55. 

I'm 6' with a 33.5" inseam and ride a 54cm FM028 with 130mm stem and no spacers.


----------



## philischen

ericjacobsen3 said:


> My Hongfu FM015 55cm weighed 1140g with only the bb cable guide and derailleur hanger (no seat clamp or bottle bolts). Fork was 400g before cutting and about 360g after cutting to leave a half inch of spacer under the stem.
> 
> A friend's weighed 1160g in a 58cm size.



I have two FM015, both size 58.

ISP version came in at 1154 with cut Isp (about 17cm seatdome left)
NON ISP version came in at 1160 without anything

Kind of strange, that the frame with obviously MORE material is few gramms lighter then the other one.

*Both* forks came in at exactly 384,9g cut!!!


----------



## Ohm

Should be interesting to know how much the weight normally varies. You see no obvious differences as different bb or so?


----------



## timed

I got two FM028 ISP size 58cm BSA BB, weights in at 1158g & 1160g out of the box, uncut, incl cable guide under BB, excluding saddleclamp & bottlecage bolts.


----------



## asherstash1

cracking looking random paint scheme mrperkles, shame your not building it yet, surely SOMEONE has actually ridden one? ah well lets just hope the ride quality etc is nicked as wholesale from the prince as the design


----------



## dmabraham

Finally a picture of my FM028, size 56, built up with full Red group. The wheels are a no-name brand of chinese 38mm clinchers I picked up on ebay. I have no idea how much it weighs, just a LOT less than the Schwinn Continental commuter in the garage.

One the second pic, I was wondering if there is any reason not to turn around the seat topper for a more forward seat position for combo work as a TT bike. I like a steep angle anyways, just thought I would ask.


----------



## CJSB

Anyone try out these SRAM Force or Red groupsets from ebay?


----------



## bwatson87

zender said:


> I'd say pick the one that comes out correctly in your sizing charts rather than one with a lot of exposed seatpost.
> 
> You can get a lot of help building on Youtube - there are all sorts of videos on how to install everything. However, if it's your fist build, you're going to want to work slow so you don't have to take stuff apart and re-do it. You'll need some screwdrivers, a set of metric allen keys, a torque wrench with allen bits, a chaintool, good quality cable cutters, a crimping tool, a bottom bracket tool for whatever type you are going to use and if it's a bit to fit a socket wrench you need the socket wrench, a cassette tool and a hex wrench to fit it (often 1 or 24mm) , a pedal wrench, some loctite, grease and/or anti-sieze compound. You might wind up needing a chainwhip if you need to remove the cassette for some reason. Ideally, it would be nice to have a building stand and an indoor trainer - those are not absolutely necessary but it makes putting the drivetrain together much easier.




Thanks for the reply.

Looking at getting a torque wrench, seems like there's a massive variety out there.

Any one in particular that people have had good experience with?

I'm sorry if this has been asked before, but what sort of forces are we talking about? What would be the extreme ends (i assume like a bottle cage mounting and a crank or bottom bracket) of the spectrum?

Many thanks

Ben


----------



## mrwirey

dmabraham said:


> One the second pic, I was wondering if there is any reason not to turn around the seat topper for a more forward seat position for combo work as a TT bike.


dmabraham,
That topper is a copy of the clamping mechanism used by Bontrager and I have turned my Bontrager posts around for the exact same reason that you state..for sprint Tris and TTs. I say turn it around if you so choose...I am sure it will work just fine.
Very respectfully, Tim


----------



## foofighter

BlackDoggystyle said:


> Well... When I was a pro @ a smaller Belgium Pro team we had some problems with our bikes (GIRS or something like that) and half season still not everybody had a 2nd frame... So Ridley jumped in and gave the riders the possibility to buy frales and smaller prices.
> 
> It was the first year that they came out with the DAMOCLES ...the one with the futuristic (at the time) tubing and the sword on top tube. The frame costed 2500€ in the shops, while the shops had to pay 2000€ for it (low profit for shop if you ask me)...
> 
> *We could buy it for.... 350€...and they still made some money on it.* And Ridley itself is like only a dozen of people workin there...they are makin LOTS of money. Merckx jumped in the same path of buyin asiatic frames as soon as he notice the low effort/hi profit of this way of doing bussiness.
> 
> I'm sure I never buy a brand frame again...


that is nuts isnt it


----------



## dmabraham

mrwirey said:


> dmabraham,
> That topper is a copy of the clamping mechanism used by Bontrager and I have turned my Bontrager posts around for the exact same reason that you state..for sprint Tris and TTs. I say turn it around if you so choose...I am sure it will work just fine.
> Very respectfully, Tim



Thanks!


----------



## mrwirey

zender said:


> I assume you picked the 028 because of the horizontal dropouts. Am I correct?
> Are you bothered by the short headtube for a single speed? Are you just going to spacer it up? ... The headtube is pretty short.


Zender,
As the other gentleman mentioned the headtube on the 56cm FM028 is rather tall. I tend to ride with a bar drop that is anywhere from 3 to 5 inches. Since I already ride a 56cm FM028 with a Frankengroup multispeed I know it will work fine. As for the dropouts I will be using a chain tensioner to make up for the lack of horizontal dropouts. That is what I used on my last Single Speed, which worked fine for me.
Very respectfully, Tim


----------



## ultraman6970

IRMB said:


> that isn't UD.
> 
> This is UD.


Actually both are Unidirectional carbon fiber, one is a cloth and the other one is a tape. The other factor is the weight of the material, that basically will indicate the finish also.

Good luck.


----------



## stubek

CJSB said:


> Anyone try out these SRAM Force or Red groupsets from ebay?



What do you want to know about them? They are the same as the ones you buy in a shop. There are not really knock-offs of the components....yet.


----------



## zender

mrwirey said:


> Zender,
> As the other gentleman mentioned the headtube on the 56cm FM028 is rather tall. I tend to ride with a bar drop that is anywhere from 3 to 5 inches. Since I already ride a 56cm FM028 with a Frankengroup multispeed I know it will work fine. As for the dropouts I will be using a chain tensioner to make up for the lack of horizontal dropouts. That is what I used on my last Single Speed, which worked fine for me.
> Very respectfully, Tim



Aaah, I realize my mistake. For some reason, I had a brain fart. My frame is the FM0*1*8 which is the TT frame and it has a horizontal dropout. I was picturing using it as a fixie/SS instead of the FM0*2*8 which is obviously a more standard geometry road bike. So, my post probably doesn't make sense. Chain tensioner seems like the right solution on the 028. Give us an update on how this goes. Are you planning on putting brakes on it?


----------



## zender

bwatson87 said:


> Thanks for the reply.
> 
> Looking at getting a torque wrench, seems like there's a massive variety out there.
> 
> Any one in particular that people have had good experience with?
> 
> I'm sorry if this has been asked before, but what sort of forces are we talking about? What would be the extreme ends (i assume like a bottle cage mounting and a crank or bottom bracket) of the spectrum?
> 
> Many thanks
> 
> Ben


I've done OK with the Sears 30 dollar beam style torque wrench, which reads up to 200 Nm I think. The highest torque you'll need to apply are the crank bolts (40-50 Nm or thereabouts). So, if you can find a smaller one that maxes out around 100 Nm, it might be more dedicated to bike use.


----------



## MrPerkles

tnajner said:


> MrPerkles
> 
> that paint job looks great. Is it 54 cm, isnt it. Who did you order from? Ebay or Greatkeen? How much did it cost you?
> 
> Hope to see your review of that frame soon
> 
> Thanks for answers


greetkeen 54cm, I think it was $350.00 + shipping
all comms was good for me ,the OEM paint finish IMHO is what really lets them down


----------



## adam_mac84

dmabraham said:


> Finally a picture of my FM028, size 56, built up with full Red group. The wheels are a no-name brand of chinese 38mm clinchers I picked up on ebay. I have no idea how much it weighs, just a LOT less than the Schwinn Continental commuter in the garage.
> 
> One the second pic, I was wondering if there is any reason not to turn around the seat topper for a more forward seat position for combo work as a TT bike. I like a steep angle anyways, just thought I would ask.


Do i see correctly that the barrel adjusters on the frame for f/r deraileur are threaded? I am picking up parts for my frame that i purchased, and just wanted to be sure. Are there barrel adjusters where the cables go into/out of frame for rear brake?

Seeing that seat post, i wish i had gotten the ISP model because of the ability to flip-flop for tri's. Do you have china carbon bars on that? if so, what aero bars will you run (or CAN you run)


----------



## pedal_damn_it

I placed an order with Miracle Trade (Peter). He was very responsive with EMails, but now that he has my money he will not respond to my emails. Is there usually a long wait after the order to hear back from them? If there is great no problem but for him to fall of the earth and not respond is sort of weird. Thanks for your help.


----------



## skyline377

bwatson87 said:


> Thanks for the reply.
> 
> Looking at getting a torque wrench, seems like there's a massive variety out there.
> 
> Any one in particular that people have had good experience with?
> 
> 
> 
> I got the big ones from searsand think it is too bulky so I got a set of these from Performance bike and they work great!!! Just wait for the discount code to get the price down a little.
> 
> http://www.performancebike.com/bikes/Product_10052_10551_1078249_-1_1549000_20000_400036


----------



## CJSB

stubek said:


> What do you want to know about them? They are the same as the ones you buy in a shop. There are not really knock-offs of the components....yet.


That's what I was worried about. I emailed the seller on ebay and he guarantee's their real...so.., that works for me.


----------



## karlo

*DengFu Factory images*

Here is the updated list of pictures from DengFU that Tony sent me.

Click here for Images


----------



## Slowswede

karlo said:


> Here is the updated list of pictures from DengFU that Tony sent me.
> 
> Click here for Images


I'd say that the last pictures are taken at hongfu, some of the equipment are in this thread allso: http://forums.roadbikereview.com/showthread.php?t=227718&page=3

(Cutting machine and table with the moulds)

Plot thickens, hehe

That said, I have a "kredo-copy" frame, extremely happy with it!

/B


----------



## cxl98904

Mr. Perkles,
i like the paint job on your frame, please can you tell what steps you took to paint and what type of paint


----------



## MrPerkles

cxl98904 said:


> Mr. Perkles,
> i like the paint job on your frame, please can you tell what steps you took to paint and what type of paint


If you are going to spray it properly dont order with clearcoat you will only have to get it off
If you do need to flat down use 800 grit and make sure you wipe over with paint prep wipes leave to dry then tack rag
I use polyester base for colours and about 4-5 coats 2k acrylic for the final clear
Let the paint flash off between coats be meticulous with cleanliness and you will get a good result
GL


----------



## ultraman6970

Hmmm polyester base... hmm... never used that paint before, wonder if flats as well as a expensive car Poly-u car paint.

Mr Perlkes have u painted before with poly-u? whats the difference in the painting/.finishing?

Thanks.

ps: i believe i asked a really dumb question  Gonna have to check this polyester word out because i dont know if it is the same than polyurethane.


----------



## MrPerkles

ultraman6970 said:


> Hmmm polyester base... hmm... never used that paint before, wonder if flats as well as a expensive car Poly-u car paint.
> 
> Mr Perlkes have u painted before with poly-u? whats the difference in the painting/.finishing?
> 
> Thanks.
> 
> ps: i believe i asked a really dumb question  Gonna have to check this polyester word out because i dont know if it is the same than polyurethane.


Sorry I dont know what Poly U is I am from the UK not sure what paint you guys can get over there
Polyester is a 1k base coat its very thin and great for stripes etc it dries quickly but you dont flat it down,it basically dries matt then you clear coat it to form a hard shell


----------



## karlo

Slowswede said:


> I'd say that the last pictures are taken at hongfu, some of the equipment are in this thread allso: http://forums.roadbikereview.com/showthread.php?t=227718&page=3
> 
> (Cutting machine and table with the moulds)
> 
> Plot thickens, hehe
> 
> That said, I have a "kredo-copy" frame, extremely happy with it!
> 
> /B


Yup, there are several pictures where you can see them with the same shirts, tables and signs on the shelves. 

At least we know that the items come from the same place and use the same CF but one is cheaper than the other. 

The shirts have the logo with FLYBIKE on them
http://www.ecvv.com/company/ajie1981/index.html

Here are some frames with the same paint jobs as the first posted pictures (from HongFu):
http://www.ecvv.com/company/july2036/products.html


----------



## redmr2_man

so just to clarify, we think that hongfu is the head honcho, and the others are most likely dealers/redistributors of them? Not that greatkeen is the main one that competes with hongfu, correct?


----------



## ultraman6970

MrPerkles said:


> Sorry I dont know what Poly U is I am from the UK not sure what paint you guys can get over there
> Polyester is a 1k base coat its very thin and great for stripes etc it dries quickly but you dont flat it down,it basically dries matt then you clear coat it to form a hard shell


Poly-u is polyurethane, car paint is polyurethane. Here all the good paint is polyurethane/Urethane acrylic paint, "House of Kolor" stuff. It flats really nice if you get the good brands and so so in the super cheappo stuff.

What you describe me probably is a type of poly-u if not the same thing, do you have to use a specific thinner (same brand) or you can just spray it straight from the can? poly-u can be base coat or top coat, base coats are usually a 1k (just like the one u mention) with a dull/matt finish, but once u clear it or put some water to it it gets super shiny. The clear must be the same brand system (kind'a the rule) or type of paint to avoid problems with the paint, u know, wrinkles for example.

I'll pm you for some tips...


----------



## zender

> I got the big ones from searsand think it is too bulky so I got a set of these from Performance bike and they work great!!! Just wait for the discount code to get the price down a little.
> 
> http://www.performancebike.com/bikes/Product_10052_10551_1078249_-1_1549000_20000_400036


I've seen that one too, and ideall I think you need 3 torque wrenches. The Perf one for little things. The Sears one for crank bolts, bottom bracket shells, rear cassette (those are all over 24Nm so they exceed the Perf one). Finally, a heavy duty one for car lug nuts, head studs & whatnot. Someday I'll spring for a quality digital one, but those cost more than a DengFu frame:
http://www.amazon.com/Computorq3-El...UTI4/ref=sr_1_6?ie=UTF8&qid=1288048802&sr=8-6


----------



## DRAwpt

redmr2_man said:


> so just to clarify, we think that hongfu is the head honcho, and the others are most likely dealers/redistributors of them? Not that greatkeen is the main one that competes with hongfu, correct?


Just to confuse things further, I dealt with Flybike earlier this year for some DF-TT01 framesets and the invoice that was sent to me said GreatKeen Bike Sports Equipment Co.,Ltd. Looking closer at the technical drawings they also say GreatKeen.

I received all frames (50% up front, 50% on receiving photos of the painted items (with our logo)...I know, I know..:skep: .)	Apart from some minor alignment issues all frames were fine.


----------



## satanas

I think 1 torque wrench is enough for bikes. The bigger bolts - like Ultra Torque crank fasteners - basically need to be as tight as possible, so no torque wrench is needed. It's the little things which can be damaged where the torque wrench is useful. I was hoping to buy one from a local discounter last week until I found out it went from 28-210Nm; 3 to 20 or so Nm would be much more useful for bicycles.


----------



## FTR

Most of my bolts are 5nM (seatpost clamp, front derailleur clamp, stem) and the Ritchey Torqkey is all I need.


----------



## dmabraham

adam_mac84 said:


> Do i see correctly that the barrel adjusters on the frame for f/r deraileur are threaded? I am picking up parts for my frame that i purchased, and just wanted to be sure. Are there barrel adjusters where the cables go into/out of frame for rear brake?
> 
> Seeing that seat post, i wish i had gotten the ISP model because of the ability to flip-flop for tri's. Do you have china carbon bars on that? if so, what aero bars will you run (or CAN you run)


Yes, they are threaded, and there are only the two on the bottom of the down tube. The bike shop in town just game me a few. The bars are a set of 3T Ergosum pro alloy bars from my previous bike, which I like ALOT. Any clip on will do, and I am thinking of possibly picking up a real TT front end for some races next year. Il just swap out the bars and a few cables for the 8 weeks of racing and then switch back later. We'll see, if I pull enough pennies together over the winter I am still thinking about buying a TT frame from Dengfu (where i got the frame).


----------



## swaz

*Ordered!*

This is a fantastic resource, thank you to everyone who has contributed. I ordered my FM015 from Mina @ Deng Fu sporting company for US$340 inc. FK007 fork. I also bought a head set, spacers, spare RD hanger and a seat post. Postage was US$70 to Australia.

I talked to Mina almost daily on MSN and she answered all my questions promptly, except for Monday morning where I guess she was busy with Monday AM stuff.

I will update when it arrives with pics etc. Planning on putting my Ultegra 6600 groupo on there, but considering adding some 6700 levers to make it look extra nice.

I went between the 028 frame and 015 and finally decided on the 015 because it was in stock. Turns out after doing the fit calculator on competitive cyclist that the 53cm 015 SHOULD be the best fit for me.


----------



## swaz

There is a cheap torque wrench on starbike.com which I have and seems to work well. Won't be as accurate as a $500 one but it's close enough for a bike


----------



## satanas

swaz, did you mean this torque wrench? http://www.starbike.com/php/product_info.php?lang=en&pid=11044

And where did you (or anyone else) find out the geometry of the frames you considered? Did you ask to be emailed drawings for each model/size?

Thanks for the info; FWIW, I'm in Oz too...


----------



## elviento

Coloroadie -- you need to calm down. 

I have a few thoughts: 

1. Real Pina Prince costs much more than $200 to make. If you have a real Prince side by side to a Hongfu FM015, you can tell the difference in workmanship (the Hongfu is still worth the $400+ price). I am trying to line up a manufacturer for my new bike design, and I am going through a lot of struggling to find the right manufacturer. Not everything made in China are of the same quality. Some have much more advanced techniques than others. It's like you can get generic Kong Pao Chicken, or you can get real authentic Kong Pao Chicken. 

2. As for gouging -- apparently nobody pointed a gun at your head to force to buy a Pinarello. 

3. The Prince design was some designer's efforts, probably many sleepless nights. I have designed a bike frame, and I know the amount of efforts involved. To me, this is a case where someone simply "stole" the design. 100%. Without even the slightest disguise. This, to me, is lamer than charging a high price that many people actually chose to accept. 

4. As is with all types of modern manufacturing, the materials and labor generally make up a fairly small portion of the total price. Especiall in the premium product range, the profit will be bigger. It's a fact of life. $140 Air Jordans cost $10 to make. 

5. It's unfair to compare the profit margin auto industry. When you are in the territory of Prince and C59, you need to be considering the Gallardos and F430s. 

6. Very soon, people will start (actually I already know people in the process of doing this) to sell these as REAL Pinarellos. Someone will get screwed. 



ColoRoadie said:


> Very reliable sources, eh? Molds just grew legs and walked out of the factory did they? Those molds were in China at the time I take it?
> 
> Competitive cyclist calls the Prince out as a $4500 frame. Do you think it even remotely possible that it costs Pinarello more than $200 per frame to make them in China? Wouldn't you call that kind of markup just a little bit ridiculous? Automobiles don't have that kind of profit in them. At $4500 a frame, Pinarello doesn't have the margin to have the frame built somewhere other than China? They couldn't afford security at the plant?
> 
> If you are OK with that sort of price gouging, good for you, but I just feel there is something very lame about it. If a company has their material built in china so that they can mark it up 2500%...and it gets copied or even stolen by one of the workers who make less than our minimum wage and have no benefits, I'm not going to shed a tear for Pinarello. Nope. Not one tear.
> 
> If they make their frames somewhere other than China and Taiwan please let us know...because I might rethink my position, but then that will make the story of stolen molds much harder to believe.


----------



## e-wal

*Torque wrench*

My LBS told me to make sure the range is 4-20Nm. You need 4 for the stem and 15 for the bracket.

BBB Torquefix works pretty good


----------



## alexb618

just ordered a FM015 from dengfu for not much money, 5 day lead time as i requested no clear coat... lets see how this goes


----------



## mrwirey

elviento said:


> It's like you can get generic Kong Pao Chicken, or you can get real authentic Kong Pao Chicken.


Elviento,
Good morning. I had Kong Pao Chicken for lunch yesterday at the Manchu Wok in the mall. I am not sure if it was authentic as I have never been to China and have no frame (pun intended) of reference to compare it too, but it was pretty good all the same. Food for thought... 
Very respectfully, Tim

P.S. On Saturdays my nephew used to dress up as a Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtle and watch cartoons. Everyone knew he wasn't actually a Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtle (and I think he did too), but we took joy in his enjoyment and loved him all the more. More food for thought...


----------



## ColoRoadie

mrwirey said:


> Elviento,
> Good morning. I had Kong Pao Chicken for lunch yesterday at the Manchu Wok in the mall. I am not sure if it was authentic as I have never been to China and have no frame (pun intended) of reference to compare it too, but it was pretty good all the same. Food for thought...
> Very respectfully, Tim
> 
> P.S. On Saturdays my nephew used to dress up as a Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtle and watch cartoons. Everyone knew he wasn't actually a Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtle (and I think he did too), but we took joy in his enjoyment and loved him all the more. More food for thought...


Some cartoon makers spent many sleepless nights creating that costume your nephew thoughtlessly wears a similar version of. I am sure, actually I already know people in the process of doing this, that someone will be selling those costumes as having real teenage mutant ninja powers. Someone is going to get screwed.

I am a super hero costume designer and I'm going though a lot of struggling trying to find a Chinese manufacturer even as I type this. You should be ashamed for buying costumes direct from the manufacturer instead of letting me do so and mark it ip 4500 percent. As for gouging, nobody put a ninja sword to your throat and forced you to buy real, made in china, teenage mutant ninja costumes.

Elviento, you have failed to convince me I'm afraid. I still rode my Chinese frame this morning. It still felt wonderful to me. It still doesnt have pinarello written on it and I still don't cry myself to sleep over whether or not a Chinese frame resembles a pinarello also made in china. As I said before, i would have more sympathy if the pina frames were made in house...but they shop out to china, so I couldn't care less. Japanese cars often resemble German cars from a year prior. American cars often resemble japanese cars from a year prior. Chrysler copied the german air bag design and the Honda passive restraints (I was there). 

Neither you nor pinarello invented two wheels, a chain driving the rear one and curved bars where our hands sit....both of you copied those before you in using that design. All you are doing is changing the aesthetics, and crying if someone puts a bump in the same place you did. That is life in the real world. If you make something that works or is pretty...someone is going to make one similar. You can deal with that and attempt a real innovation or you can cry yourself to sleep every night about how cruel the great big world is.

:idea:


----------



## asherstash1

elviento said:


> Coloroadie -- you need to calm down.
> 
> I have a few thoughts:
> 
> 1. Real Pina Prince costs much more than $200 to make. If you have a real Prince side by side to a Hongfu FM015, you can tell the difference in workmanship (the Hongfu is still worth the $400+ price). I am trying to line up a manufacturer for my new bike design, and I am going through a lot of struggling to find the right manufacturer. Not everything made in China are of the same quality. Some have much more advanced techniques than others. It's like you can get generic Kong Pao Chicken, or you can get real authentic Kong Pao Chicken.
> 
> 2. As for gouging -- apparently nobody pointed a gun at your head to force to buy a Pinarello.
> 
> 3. The Prince design was some designer's efforts, probably many sleepless nights. I have designed a bike frame, and I know the amount of efforts involved. To me, this is a case where someone simply "stole" the design. 100%. Without even the slightest disguise. This, to me, is lamer than charging a high price that many people actually chose to accept.
> 
> 4. As is with all types of modern manufacturing, the materials and labor generally make up a fairly small portion of the total price. Especiall in the premium product range, the profit will be bigger. It's a fact of life. $140 Air Jordans cost $10 to make.
> 
> 5. It's unfair to compare the profit margin auto industry. When you are in the territory of Prince and C59, you need to be considering the Gallardos and F430s.
> 
> 6. Very soon, people will start (actually I already know people in the process of doing this) to sell these as REAL Pinarellos. Someone will get screwed.


the prince clone is greatkeen 101


----------



## adam_mac84

dmabraham said:


> Yes, they are threaded, and there are only the two on the bottom of the down tube. The bike shop in town just game me a few. The bars are a set of 3T Ergosum pro alloy bars from my previous bike, which I like ALOT. Any clip on will do, and I am thinking of possibly picking up a real TT front end for some races next year. Il just swap out the bars and a few cables for the 8 weeks of racing and then switch back later. We'll see, if I pull enough pennies together over the winter I am still thinking about buying a TT frame from Dengfu (where i got the frame).



Yes, it is definitly tempting to buy another frame, especially because TT groupo's aren't too $$. However, im wondering how much different my aero position would be on a TT frame vs road bike, maybe the money would go better toward some aero wheels. I told my wife i wouldn't buy another bike until i could averae 23mph on my weekly club TT (14.9 miles). Might have shot myself in the foot with that one


----------



## karlo

adam_mac84 said:


> Yes, it is definitly tempting to buy another frame, especially because TT groupo's aren't too $$. However, im wondering how much different my aero position would be on a TT frame vs road bike, maybe the money would go better toward some aero wheels. I told my wife i wouldn't buy another bike until i could averae 23mph on my weekly club TT (14.9 miles). Might have shot myself in the foot with that one


If she's going to be checking your speedometer I would tell one of the fast guys to swap it out for a few rides then just say you're faster now  :thumbsup:


----------



## stubek

karlo said:


> If she's going to be checking your speedometer I would tell one of the fast guys to swap it out for a few rides then just say you're faster now  :thumbsup:


Just adjust the tire size



adam_mac84 said:


> I told my wife i wouldn't buy another bike until i could averae 23mph on my weekly club TT (14.9 miles).


Must be a dead flat course. I told my wife for two years I would not buy a TT bike until I did 100 miles per week for at least 8 straight weeks, well after my first 100 mile week, I surprised her with a new TT bike for myself.


----------



## Local Hero

swaz said:


> This is a fantastic resource, thank you to everyone who has contributed. I ordered my FM015 from Mina @ Deng Fu sporting company for US$340 inc.
> ...
> Turns out after doing the fit calculator on competitive cyclist that the 53cm 015 SHOULD be the best fit for me.


Congrats. I hope it works out. Please update us with pictures of your build and a ride review

Out of curiosity, what's your height and inseam? And what size bike are you currently riding?


----------



## GardenDwarf

Hello guys!

About the discution on the low price of the chinese carbon frame vs a real Pinarello, many people forget 

1. The price to pay by Pinarello to pay their engeneer.
2. They must pay the shipping from china to Italy, paint the bike in Italy (they must pay higher their painter than China painter) and the re-ship the frame arround the world.
3. The cost of marketing, this is a big Name and they must pay to keep this BIG Name
4. The local saler must to have a gain to sell this frame
5. The wholesalers must to have a gain too ...

All these points do a higher price for a Pinarello vs Chinese no name frame.

Also, the FM01 it's not a copy but a look like Pinarello. The Pinarello have an internal rear brake cable. The FM01 dont have internal rear brake cable...

Now, you pay what you get. If you buy a real Pinarello, you pay for a good frame and less trouble for a good service. If you buy a chinese frame, you dont know if you will have some problem with the headset, a problem with the frame and some little probem like that. But these littles problems are "easy" to fix but that cost you time and energy.

So, if you have a good frame for 500$ US , I think it's a good deal at less you need flashing and you are affraid to do business with China.


----------



## MrPerkles

lets lighten the mood,I didnt want the normal generic boring name script on my top tube so today had it hand written in Chinese
I have been promised it says my name but it could say king pao chicken or salty balls.Either way I think it looks kind of cool


----------



## pedal_damn_it

Anyone ever order from Peter at www.miracle-trade.net.cn? If so does he just stop emailing after you send your money over? That is where I am right now, and trying to figure if I should wait or contact Paypal. what do you think?


----------



## asherstash1

could you wack some detail shots of the frame up mrperkles? also does anyone have the ,muscle shape handlebars?


----------



## ckibbe

*FM-015 Internal Brake Cable Obstruction*

I have a FM-015 that I recently recieved and am very happy with. I noticed that the rear brake makes a noise when the internal cable moves. Pulled the cable out and when trying to re-insert it would get hung up on something in the tube. Once I noticed this I realized this is what was making the noise. Anyone know how sturdy that internal cable guide is? Can I blow it out with compressed air or run a clothes hanger wire in it without tearing it up? Any other thoughts? If any chance of damaging I'll just live with it as I was able to re-insert the cable after a few tries.


----------



## jwcurry83

pedal_damn_it said:


> Anyone ever order from Peter at www.miracle-trade.net.cn? If so does he just stop emailing after you send your money over? That is where I am right now, and trying to figure if I should wait or contact Paypal. what do you think?


Try contacting Jack Chen at [email protected] ... he responded with 12hours to all my emails, however, I have yet to order anything from them. I am curious to see how your situation turns out because I wanted to ultimately order a frame & wheelset.


----------



## pedal_damn_it

ckibbe said:


> I have a FM-015 that I recently recieved and am very happy with. I noticed that the rear brake makes a noise when the internal cable moves. Pulled the cable out and when trying to re-insert it would get hung up on something in the tube. Once I noticed this I realized this is what was making the noise. Anyone know how sturdy that internal cable guide is? Can I blow it out with compressed air or run a clothes hanger wire in it without tearing it up? Any other thoughts? If any chance of damaging I'll just live with it as I was able to re-insert the cable after a few tries.


I would try a coat hanger and see if anything is lodge in the tube. Don't know if that is the correct way to fix this problem but that is what I would try.


----------



## pedal_damn_it

jwcurry83 said:


> Try contacting Jack Chen at [email protected] ... he responded with 12hours to all my emails, however, I have yet to order anything from them. I am curious to see how your situation turns out because I wanted to ultimately order a frame & wheelset.


Thanks for your help, I will let you know how this situation turns out.


----------



## stubek

ckibbe said:


> I have a FM-015 that I recently recieved and am very happy with. I noticed that the rear brake makes a noise when the internal cable moves. Pulled the cable out and when trying to re-insert it would get hung up on something in the tube. Once I noticed this I realized this is what was making the noise. Anyone know how sturdy that internal cable guide is? Can I blow it out with compressed air or run a clothes hanger wire in it without tearing it up? Any other thoughts? If any chance of damaging I'll just live with it as I was able to re-insert the cable after a few tries.


more likely, I would use a can of compressed air for computers and stick the straw as far in as you can, then blow


----------



## Safeway

I would feed in a semi-rigid something and pull it back and forth. I didn't realize there was a physical cable guide inside the tube. I just assumed it was open and you had to fish it out at the other end.


----------



## toadbiker

Hey guys- I am 5'6.5" and 31.5" inseam with shoes on

What size FM028 or FM015 ?

I am thinking 515 to 330 top tube range would be ok?

I've ridden a 540 top tube with 100 mm stem and that seemed a bit too much stretch to the hoods


----------



## MrPerkles

asherstash1 said:


> could you wack some detail shots of the frame up mrperkles? also does anyone have the ,muscle shape handlebars?


ive got the bars and they are by far the comfiest ive used,ill try but im rubbish with a camera


----------



## Safeway

I too have the "muscle" bars. I'm going to weigh and photograph them soon. With a T2i DSLR.


----------



## WheresWaldo

MrPerkles said:


> lets lighten the mood,I didnt want the normal generic boring name script on my top tube so today had it hand written in Chinese
> I have been promised it says my name but it could say king pao chicken or salty balls.Either way I think it looks kind of cool


It looks like you are getting ready to paint another frame, in the background there. What will that one look like? BTW the current one is very nice. I am in the process of prepping my FM015 for painting.


----------



## swaz

satanas said:


> swaz, did you mean this torque wrench? http://www.starbike.com/php/product_info.php?lang=en&pid=11044
> 
> And where did you (or anyone else) find out the geometry of the frames you considered? Did you ask to be emailed drawings for each model/size?
> 
> Thanks for the info; FWIW, I'm in Oz too...


Thats the one! So far no complaints!

Check out cheapcarbonbikes.com or just google "FM015 geometry" and it will give you the direct links of the CAD drawings of most frames. It took me 7 days to decide what I wanted to get, and lucky I took the time as I would have ordered the 55cm, when really I need the 53! Always thoughts the stretched out feel of my 55cmTT current ride was how it was meant to be...


----------



## elviento

Well, good for you on the chicken part. All power to you on that. 

Regarding the Ninja turtle costume, generally, the manufacturer would have to license the Ninja turtle image and pay the copyright owner real hard cash, in order to sell them. So a bit more food back at ya. 





mrwirey said:


> Elviento,
> Good morning. I had Kong Pao Chicken for lunch yesterday at the Manchu Wok in the mall. I am not sure if it was authentic as I have never been to China and have no frame (pun intended) of reference to compare it too, but it was pretty good all the same. Food for thought...
> Very respectfully, Tim
> 
> P.S. On Saturdays my nephew used to dress up as a Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtle and watch cartoons. Everyone knew he wasn't actually a Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtle (and I think he did too), but we took joy in his enjoyment and loved him all the more. More food for thought...


----------



## elviento

Not sure why you have to be so bitter. The fact is, I own both a Prince and a FM015. I am actually reasonably happy with both purchases. But they are different things. 

I am just trying to shed some light on some of the issues AND FACTS behind this debate, and expressing my personal opinion about what's lame and what's not. As for what level of copying is permitted and what's not, it's up to the law makers to decide and there are already laws in place on that. 

Regarding the fake Princes, well, different fibers, different workers, different process, different testing results, but DUPLICATED MOLDS and identical external shapes. This may be good enough for some people. That's all I am trying to say. 

As for crying to sleep... I am not Fausto's alter ego, so no worries for me... 




ColoRoadie said:


> Some cartoon makers spent many sleepless nights creating that costume your nephew thoughtlessly wears a similar version of. I am sure, actually I already know people in the process of doing this, that someone will be selling those costumes as having real teenage mutant ninja powers. Someone is going to get screwed.
> 
> I am a super hero costume designer and I'm going though a lot of struggling trying to find a Chinese manufacturer even as I type this. You should be ashamed for buying costumes direct from the manufacturer instead of letting me do so and mark it ip 4500 percent. As for gouging, nobody put a ninja sword to your throat and forced you to buy real, made in china, teenage mutant ninja costumes.
> 
> Elviento, you have failed to convince me I'm afraid. I still rode my Chinese frame this morning. It still felt wonderful to me. It still doesnt have pinarello written on it and I still don't cry myself to sleep over whether or not a Chinese frame resembles a pinarello also made in china. As I said before, i would have more sympathy if the pina frames were made in house...but they shop out to china, so I couldn't care less. Japanese cars often resemble German cars from a year prior. American cars often resemble japanese cars from a year prior. Chrysler copied the german air bag design and the Honda passive restraints (I was there).
> 
> Neither you nor pinarello invented two wheels, a chain driving the rear one and curved bars where our hands sit....both of you copied those before you in using that design. All you are doing is changing the aesthetics, and crying if someone puts a bump in the same place you did. That is life in the real world. If you make something that works or is pretty...someone is going to make one similar. You can deal with that and attempt a real innovation or you can cry yourself to sleep every night about how cruel the great big world is.
> 
> :idea:


----------



## Local Hero

elviento said:


> I own both a Prince and a FM015


Can you talk a little about the difference in feel, ride quality, weight, et cetera?


----------



## equinoxx

So...anyways, finished up my bike this past weekend. Can't wait to take a ride. Actually I still need to tape the handlebars but I wanted to be sure I had the shifters where I wanted them. 

Overall was really fun to put the bike together. Special props to mrwirey for walking me through the headset installation.

Specs:
FM015 (53cm, BB30, 3K weave with clearacoat) from Dengfu 
SRAM Force groupset
Mavic Aksium wheels (I know, I skimped a bit on the wheels!)


----------



## equinoxx

sorry..double-post


----------



## MrPerkles

WheresWaldo said:


> It looks like you are getting ready to paint another frame, in the background there. What will that one look like? BTW the current one is very nice. I am in the process of prepping my FM015 for painting.


the other one is a carbon winter frame that i am spraying for sombody in our cycling club
The want some white flashes thats all.The frame is said to be from the OE Wilier factory in Taiwan and very very good quality,I have the road version that i sprayed porsche gulf colours


----------



## ultraman6970

Yes but you haven't say a single thing about differences in the riding? bikes are different even in the geometry but any how it would be nice to know if they ride similar or not.





elviento said:


> Not sure why you have to be so bitter. The fact is, I own both a Prince and a FM015. I am actually reasonably happy with both purchases. But they are different things.
> 
> I am just trying to shed some light on some of the issues AND FACTS behind this debate, and expressing my personal opinion about what's lame and what's not. As for what level of copying is permitted and what's not, it's up to the law makers to decide and there are already laws in place on that.
> 
> Regarding the fake Princes, well, different fibers, different workers, different process, different testing results, but DUPLICATED MOLDS and identical external shapes. This may be good enough for some people. That's all I am trying to say.
> 
> As for crying to sleep... I am not Fausto's alter ego, so no worries for me...


----------



## karlo

MrPerkles said:


> the other one is a carbon winter frame that i am spraying for sombody in our cycling club
> The want some white flashes thats all.The frame is said to be from the OE Wilier factory in Taiwan and very very good quality,I have the road version that i sprayed porsche gulf colours


That paint job looks great.


----------



## vis8892

I bought an FM015-ISP size 58 from DengFu last month and after comparing it to my current ride, I am thinking of going one size smaller. So, just wondering if anyone is interested in buying the frame from me - frame, fork and headset. Already in the US so shipping should be less than the $80 from China.


----------



## csteele2144

vis8892 said:


> I bought an FM015-ISP size 58 from DengFu last month and after comparing it to my current ride, I am thinking of going one size smaller. So, just wondering if anyone is interested in buying the frame from me - frame, fork and headset. Already in the US so shipping should be less than the $80 from China.


vis8892 I sent you a PM


----------



## adam_mac84

stubek said:


> Just adjust the tire size
> 
> 
> 
> Must be a dead flat course. I told my wife for two years I would not buy a TT bike until I did 100 miles per week for at least 8 straight weeks, well after my first 100 mile week, I surprised her with a new TT bike for myself.



Haha, they post the official times each week online and publish them in the local paper. I may have screwed myself though, because my avg this year was +/- 20.8mph (my first year cycling). It has some rollers, but not too bad. Its a down and back, always back into the wind.


----------



## mrwirey

elviento said:


> Well, good for you on the chicken part. All power to you on that.
> 
> Regarding the Ninja turtle costume, generally, the manufacturer would have to license the Ninja turtle image and pay the copyright owner real hard cash, in order to sell them. So a bit more food back at ya.


Elviento,
I applaud your passionate defense of the legal system and the undoubtedly exploited designers, engineers, and workers at, and owners of Pinarello. I can only speak for myself of course and believe me when I say I understand where you are coming from, but I would really like to move on now. I will cede that you are absolutely correct and that you win the discussion. I hope we can now call a truce so both of us can get back on topic and see if we can help people pursue their passion, our collective passion, which is bicycle building and riding.
Very respectfully, Tim


----------



## kmonie360

Anyone know the BB length on these frames. Trying to figure it out. I'm guessing they use the same for all. I know the width is 68mm


----------



## bwatson87

Sorry if this has been addressed before, but what is the specification for the FM015 frame's headset, or would anyone be able direct me to a good quality white headset that would fit it?


----------



## alexb618

alexb618 said:


> just ordered a FM015 from dengfu for not much money, 5 day lead time as i requested no clear coat... lets see how this goes


update : shipped yesterday with tracking... the 5 day lead time was more like 20 hours

wasnt expecting anything until late next week, happy thus far


----------



## adam_mac84

I don't remember seeing this in any of the stickied threads, but am i correct in assuming the max spacer height under stem on the steerer will be 4 cm. I had thought that was kind of the 'standard' max. I plan non starting with .5cm above stem, and 4cm below stem and working my way down from there on my FM028.

I have also been told steering response is better with stem flipped down versus up. (correct me if i am wrong).


----------



## WheresWaldo

bwatson87 said:


> Sorry if this has been addressed before, but what is the specification for the FM015 frame's headset, or would anyone be able direct me to a good quality white headset that would fit it?


Headset is Campy top and 1.5" bottom. FSA makes one that works well it is the CF-40.


----------



## swaz

alexb618 said:


> update : shipped yesterday with tracking... the 5 day lead time was more like 20 hours
> 
> wasnt expecting anything until late next week, happy thus far


You must have ordered yours very shortly after I ordered mine. Was just talking with Mina and she said to make sure I open the package and check for any issues as she wont do anything if I sign for it. So just passing on that message.


----------



## swaz

kmonie360 said:


> Anyone know the BB length on these frames. Trying to figure it out. I'm guessing they use the same for all. I know the width is 68mm


Length? Have you looked at the drawings available for them?


----------



## w4ta

Karlo, nice work on the bike. Did you apply any matte varnish over the decals once you applied them. If so, what steps did you take? I would think some layer of varnish would protect the decals. Bike looks fantastic.


----------



## alexb618

swaz said:


> You must have ordered yours very shortly after I ordered mine. Was just talking with Mina and she said to make sure I open the package and check for any issues as she wont do anything if I sign for it. So just passing on that message.


yep with EMS you really need to check the package befor you sign for it...


----------



## karlo

w4ta said:


> Karlo, nice work on the bike. Did you apply any matte varnish over the decals once you applied them. If so, what steps did you take? I would think some layer of varnish would protect the decals. Bike looks fantastic.


No, I haven't applied anything over the decals and don't think I will as they should be ok but If I do I would have someone that knows more about paint do it, I don't want to ruin it

oh, and thanks


----------



## jim9091

MrPerkles said:


> lets lighten the mood,I didnt want the normal generic boring name script on my top tube so today had it hand written in Chinese
> I have been promised it says my name but it could say king pao chicken or salty balls.Either way I think it looks kind of cool


MrPerkles - it says "an di - pa ke si". Pretty cool. Great idea, I like it a lot.


----------



## nedworthy

Hey Equinox - I'm looking at the RM15 but fall right between their sizes ( 53 - 55). Just as an indicator I wondered what bike you rode before and size, and how tall are you? Cheers


----------



## CSquare43

equinoxx said:


> So...anyways, finished up my bike this past weekend. Can't wait to take a ride. Actually I still need to tape the handlebars but I wanted to be sure I had the shifters where I wanted them.
> 
> Overall was really fun to put the bike together. Special props to mrwirey for walking me through the headset installation.
> 
> Specs:
> FM015 (53cm, BB30, 3K weave with clearacoat) from Dengfu
> SRAM Force groupset
> Mavic Aksium wheels (I know, I skimped a bit on the wheels!)


This (in my humblest of opinions) represents one of the potential issues here (in ordering these frames without direction from someone who is well practiced/informed in fitting).

If this seatpost is placed properly for you and isn't just installed for the picture, then at first glance, this frame is too large for you.

DISCLAIMER: There could always be underlying reasons for this that are valid.

But without knowing, it seems that you've bought a frame that's too big for you.

IF this is the case and you've bought an improper frame size, that's something that is less likely to happen when buying from a reputable bike shop.


----------



## adam_mac84

CSquare43 said:


> This (in my humblest of opinions) represents one of the potential issues here (in ordering these frames without direction from someone who is well practiced/informed in fitting).
> 
> If this seatpost is placed properly for you and isn't just installed for the picture, then at first glance, this frame is too large for you.
> 
> DISCLAIMER: There could always be underlying reasons for this that are valid.
> 
> But without knowing, it seems that you've bought a frame that's too big for you.
> 
> IF this is the case and you've bought an improper frame size, that's something that is less likely to happen when buying from a reputable bike shop.


I think that's hard to say without knowing his body dimensions. I will say it is difficult to get a bike with bars near seat height these days without going into a frame too large for one's self. I have no idea if that is a problem that the OP of that photo has, nor am i saying the frame is the correct size, but in my experience, i can fit myself as well or better than most shops just from reading about fit and some trial and error.

I do however pay for fittings at my local shop because it is cheaper for me to pay $60 to use their adjustable stems, and multiple bars available than the time it takes to buy/sell multiple parts for the trial and error method.

I got fit on my first bike, and ended up changing that anyhow after 300 miles


----------



## equinoxx

CSquare43 said:


> This (in my humblest of opinions) represents one of the potential issues here (in ordering these frames without direction from someone who is well practiced/informed in fitting).
> 
> If this seatpost is placed properly for you and isn't just installed for the picture, then at first glance, this frame is too large for you.
> 
> DISCLAIMER: There could always be underlying reasons for this that are valid.
> 
> But without knowing, it seems that you've bought a frame that's too big for you.
> 
> IF this is the case and you've bought an improper frame size, that's something that is less likely to happen when buying from a reputable bike shop.


Seat was just installed for pictures. I have not made any type of adjustments yet other than make sure the derailleurs and brakes work.

For the record, I'm 5'7" with a 31" inseam. As a noob biker, if the fit is not 100% spot-on, I probably would not recognize the issue anyways. However, based on what I've read, the 53cm FM015 should be in the ballpark.


----------



## adam_mac84

alexb618 said:


> yep with EMS you really need to check the package befor you sign for it...


and if it is not correct just don't sign for it and it will go where? I also ordered from Mina at Dengfu, but we did not discuss this. I will be sure to check the package, and if there is damage from shiipping etc, will it then be sent back to sender?

This is good info about EMS to know


----------



## ColoRoadie

equinoxx said:


> Seat was just installed for pictures. I have not made any type of adjustments yet other than make sure the derailleurs and brakes work.
> 
> For the record, I'm 5'7" with a 31" inseam. As a noob biker, if the fit is not 100% spot-on, I probably would not recognize the issue anyways. However, based on what I've read, the 53cm FM015 should be in the ballpark.



The best money you will ever spend on that bike is taking it down to a good fitter and having it set up to fit your body. You will be amazed at how much less pain a well fit bike produces over one that is thought to be good enough. You will ride harder and longer on a well fit bike and recover quicker for the next ride. All in my humble opinion of course. It worked exactly that way for me anyway.


----------



## nealric

> Originally Posted by alexb618
> yep with EMS you really need to check the package befor you sign for it...


My post office wouldn't let me inspect before signing for it.


----------



## Local Hero

equinoxx said:


> Seat was just installed for pictures. I have not made any type of adjustments yet other than make sure the derailleurs and brakes work.
> 
> For the record, I'm 5'7" with a 31" inseam. As a noob biker, if the fit is not 100% spot-on, I probably would not recognize the issue anyways. However, based on what I've read, the 53cm FM015 should be in the ballpark.


What's the top tube length? 

I cannot seem to find the geometry chart for that frame.


----------



## mdime

equinoxx said:


> Seat was just installed for pictures. I have not made any type of adjustments yet other than make sure the derailleurs and brakes work.
> 
> For the record, I'm 5'7" with a 31" inseam. As a noob biker, if the fit is not 100% spot-on, I probably would not recognize the issue anyways. However, based on what I've read, the 53cm FM015 should be in the ballpark.


I'm the same height and inseam and I went with the 51cm fm015. While I do think that you probably could've gone with a 51cm, I don't think it's a big deal. My last bike was a 53cm frame and it worked just fine. 

The problem I see is the stem length and spacers. Granted I prefer a little lower/aggressive riding position, but unless you've got a really short torso and arms you're going to be pretty upright. Oh yea, and the drops are WAY too far angled up. The hoods should be much closer to parallel with the ground.

Once you get it set up I'm sure you'll love it. My build is very similar, but with mostly Rival parts (other than Force cranks) and Neuvation wheels instead of the Mavics.


----------



## hiver2601

*ISP or not?*

Based on some of the buyers weight measurements, it sounds like there could be some weight to save by going with an ISP versions? (If you recall earlier in the thread, an ISP and non-ISP version of the same frame came in at about the same weight. If so, surely from a strict weight perspective it will be optimal to choose the ISP version? (assuming a seat post and bracket weights more than the ISP clamp)

Any thoughts?


----------



## Ohm

ISP

+ light weight

- ugly
if it break?
ONE cut!
can't pack the bike as easely


----------



## asherstash1

MrPerkles said:


> ive got the bars and they are by far the comfiest ive used,ill try but im rubbish with a camera


sorted, could you tell me whats the distance between the "muscle" bits in the centre of the bar? im just trying to work out if my clip on tri bars will still fit?? ta . ash


----------



## WheresWaldo

hiver2601 said:


> Based on some of the buyers weight measurements, it sounds like there could be some weight to save by going with an ISP versions? (If you recall earlier in the thread, an ISP and non-ISP version of the same frame came in at about the same weight. If so, surely from a strict weight perspective it will be optimal to choose the ISP version? (assuming a seat post and bracket weights more than the ISP clamp)
> 
> Any thoughts?


Unfortunately the weights given are without the stubby. And the one supplied by the Chinese are about as heavy as a seat post. So even though the weights are comparable once you get a light post like a Thomson Masterpiece (my favorite seat post of all time) or something like a KCNC Ti Pro Lite as well as a lightweight clamp you are still saving a considerable amount of weight with the non-ISP version (The weight of the stubby is thread #2, IIRC).

This of course is in addition to what *Ohm *wrote above.


----------



## adam_mac84

asherstash1 said:


> sorted, could you tell me whats the distance between the "muscle" bits in the centre of the bar? im just trying to work out if my clip on tri bars will still fit?? ta . ash


is the muscle bits an aluminum insert? i hadn't thought that many carbon bars were carbon compatable. I had looked at the muscle bars too, but opted not because i am nervous about aero bars on carbon bars


----------



## thefutureofamerica

*FM-015 review on the front page of RBR*

Check it:

http://reviews.roadbikereview.com/blog/diamond-dm-1-pro-race-review/


----------



## NiklasUK

Just received my second FM015 from Mina Dengfu (The first was from Jenny Hongfu).
Took 4 days to arrive communication with Mina was very good throughout, the bike was well packed, everything was as described and there was a good finish on the clear coat.
I couldn't be happier; the bike handles excellently as is more than enough for my modest needs.
This was my first road bike (the second frame I'm keeping for a spare as they were so cheap) and I've have fun picking the other components and building the bike up. Would recommend this as a good way to go to anyone that has a modicum of dexterity and a willingness to read through the forums. :thumbsup:


----------



## deviousalex

karlo said:


> Here is the updated list of pictures from DengFU that Tony sent me.
> 
> Click here for Images


I noticed one of the pictures had a frame that said "Five Rings" on it. I've seen a bike shop selling these bikes on craigslist (full TT dura ace bike for $1200) and the guy claims they are made in the same factories as Cervelos.
http://sfbay.craigslist.org/pen/bik/2030970573.html


----------



## mrbubbles

thefutureofamerica said:


> Check it:
> 
> http://reviews.roadbikereview.com/blog/diamond-dm-1-pro-race-review/


Check out their site, the wheels and frames are definitely from those Chinese suppliers. 

http://www.diamondbicycle.com/Products.php

They need a better web designer though.


----------



## stubek

deviousalex said:


> I noticed one of the pictures had a frame that said "Five Rings" on it. I've seen a bike shop selling these bikes on craigslist (full TT dura ace bike for $1200) and the guy claims they are made in the same factories as Cervelos.
> http://sfbay.craigslist.org/pen/bik/2030970573.html


I test road that bike about a month ago. Fantastic machine. He wants $4500 or so for it fully built with the Token compoenents and edge wheels. That $1,200 price is only for the frame. I thought it was for the full bike, so I went there to test ride it and found out I was wrong. Check post #28 in this thread for my write up of it.

That bike comes from Deng Fu, someone a couple pages ago posted pictures of the Deng Fu factory, and you can see a bike being painted with FRCC and Five Rings for it. http://gabeadz.com/karlo/DengFu/#6

A side note about 5RCC. They are two guys from Belarus. One was national champ for a few years there and one was an Olympic medalist in the 76 Olympics.


----------



## lust4bikes

This is a belated Wow! Gorgeous bike! I really like the orange cables and the way they go into the bike and exit from the colored stripe making it a continuous flow. Really nice execution all the way around!


----------



## WheresWaldo

thefutureofamerica said:


> Check it:
> 
> http://reviews.roadbikereview.com/blog/diamond-dm-1-pro-race-review/


I don't know who wrote this review, but it is one of the worst things I have read. The writer might have some limited biking experience but the writing is just horrible and the inconsistencies in the review pretty much make it a useless review.


----------



## Bacana

mrbubbles said:


> Check out their site, the wheels and frames are definitely from those Chinese suppliers.
> 
> http://www.diamondbicycle.com/Products.php
> 
> They need a better web designer though.


Ain't that the truth. But looks like a decent deal. The article is credited to thien.

Wonder how long before they get a cease and desist order to stop making such liberal use of the brand name Edge, especially so close to the word _composite_.

http://www.diamondbicycle.com/Components.php


> Full Carbon Clincher Wheelsets:
> All our carbon wheels roll so smoothly that you might think your tire pressure is low! Our carbon clincher wheelsets are *very stiff laterally, yet vertically compliant*.


 

My first sighting of this phrase in the wild.


----------



## deviousalex

That seems like they are charging you a lot for a frame and components we have access to ourselves for the 5RCC cycles.


----------



## Crawf

Some pics of the frame for my good lady. Haven't seen it in the flesh yet, not sure sure the pink has come out the way I wanted but it could be just the bad photos. Will be getting some custom decals as well.


----------



## LarsEjaas

Wanted to share a quick photo of my MT-MC015 Miracle Trade build. I am still waiting for the cranks - should be in the mail next week.

I have been doing everything myself so far. I must say that it has been VERY easy to work with. The headset was easy for me to install and I haven't had any trouble yet.

This is going to be my winter/training ride, so nothing light or "bling bling" here.


----------



## SRS

Iam starting to like the chines by now  : Frame, fork, seatpost(modified) by gotobike. Wheelsett by yishun and Group by Luke Skywalker ("May the FORCE be with you").


----------



## kk5551

SRS said:


> Iam starting to like the chines by now  : Frame, fork, seatpost(modified) by gotobike. Wheelsett by yishun and Group by Luke Skywalker ("May the FORCE be with you").



What from is that from gotobike? Maybe I didn't find their correct site, but I didn't see it. I really like the curves on that frame...


----------



## mattoid

Hi there.
Been following these threads for a few weeks now, and just about decided on what I want based on a ratio of quality - lightweight - cost. 
Can anyone confirm for me that this is an FM001, size 50cm? It's the only image I can find of one this small. 

Bicycle_999 is offering this at $299 for frame, forks and headset plus $75 shipping. Anyone doing it for less?
This was posted previously, but having problems with the forum.

Thanks in advance.
Matt


----------



## aranesp

SRS said:


> Iam starting to like the chines by now  : Frame, fork, seatpost(modified) by gotobike. Wheelsett by yishun and Group by Luke Skywalker ("May the FORCE be with you").


nice bike! where did you get that frame?


----------



## SRS

aranesp said:


> nice bike! where did you get that frame?


I see right now that their web page is down. But they have their stuff on alibaba to, and thats how i got in contact with them.

http://carbon-products.en.alibaba.c...og=cgsotherproduct2#productDetailpageLocation


----------



## Spursrider

SRS said:


> I see right now that their web page is down. But they have their stuff on alibaba to, and thats how i got in contact with them.
> 
> http://carbon-products.en.alibaba.c...og=cgsotherproduct2#productDetailpageLocation


Nice looking bike. Looks like Xpace's 838 frame. How much did you pay for it?


----------



## asherstash1

SRS said:


> Iam starting to like the chines by now  : Frame, fork, seatpost(modified) by gotobike. Wheelsett by yishun and Group by Luke Skywalker ("May the FORCE be with you").


 this is what ribble sells as their "stealth" isnt it?


----------



## Gall

*Luke Skywalker site???*

Where do I find this site?


----------



## SRS

asherstash1 said:


> this is what ribble sells as their "stealth" isnt it?



Yes. Looks to be the same and pedalforce rs3 and swift 838 isp Modulus without the isp
and Dynatec BBEVO without the isp.

De Rosa R848 uses the same mould, I also belive the Museeuw mc-6 uses the same mould. But both of these bikes are a little different in shape, but they have the same geometry.............

Maybe someone knows of more companys selling it as "theirs"?

I think my frame is made by xpace, because it has identification on the bb. and the two first letters says XP, maybe just coincident????


----------



## ClarkinHawaii

*What's inside that carbon frame where you attach the (road bike) rear brake caliper?*

I've been afraid to really gorilla down on the attachment bolt/nut bacause the frame is carbon. Consequently the brake does not remain rigidly in place, but twists when I apply it. Tried a serrated washer, but that didn't help.

I'm wondering if there might not be an aluminum piece in there that the brake nut/bolt actually clamps to? People seem to gorilla down on the brake attachments to carbon forks, so the same should apply here, I would think.

How are you guys handling this?


----------



## Local Hero

*bate and switch*



deviousalex said:


> I noticed one of the pictures had a frame that said "Five Rings" on it. I've seen a bike shop selling these bikes on craigslist (full TT dura ace bike for $1200) and the guy claims they are made in the same factories as Cervelos.
> http://sfbay.craigslist.org/pen/bik/2030970573.html


Funny. I saw that shop from highway 101 Wednesday. 

I don't think that price is for a complete bike; if you look closely at the ad, it appears to say that the frame and fork are $1199.


----------



## CJSB

SRS said:


> Iam starting to like the chines by now  : Frame, fork, seatpost(modified) by gotobike. Wheelsett by yishun and Group by Luke Skywalker ("May the FORCE be with you").


Oh my....that is a great looking bike.


----------



## BlackDoggystyle

SRS said:


> Iam starting to like the chines by now  : Frame, fork, seatpost(modified) by gotobike. Wheelsett by yishun and Group by Luke Skywalker ("May the FORCE be with you").



are these wheels 88 of 101mm?


----------



## Søren A

Hi
Does anyone now where I can get a handelbar like the cinelli ram,maby some china copyes or simular


søren a


----------



## stubek

Søren A said:


> Hi
> Does anyone now where I can get a handelbar like the cinelli ram,maby some china copyes or simular
> 
> 
> søren a



Like this one?
http://dengfu.en.alibaba.com/produc...arbon_handlebar_and_integrated_handlebar.html
Check Deng Fu and the others, most sell one.


----------



## cfred84

SRS said:


> Iam starting to like the chines by now  : Frame, fork, seatpost(modified) by gotobike. Wheelsett by yishun and Group by Luke Skywalker ("May the FORCE be with you").


Very sweet looking ride! I like the sublime decal scheme u hv!!
Can I just double check if the frame would be a matte black paint with no clear coat?


----------



## Søren A

Do you think it is the same as the cinelli ram and it looks not like it have the antomich shape on the bars


----------



## Søren A

Where is the chines wheel treat because there was something with handelbars


----------



## SRS

cfred84 said:


> Very sweet looking ride! I like the sublime decal scheme u hv!!
> Can I just double check if the frame would be a matte black paint with no clear coat?


Rims are 88mm. Frame is 3k carbon matt finish. Bastard Racing painted matt black along with a black stripe painted along the top tube and up the seatpost..............


----------



## foofighter

SRS said:


> Iam starting to like the chines by now  : Frame, fork, seatpost(modified) by gotobike. Wheelsett by yishun and Group by Luke Skywalker ("May the FORCE be with you").


that is a sharp looking frame! I like the creases on the headtube and down the fork...


----------



## cfred84

SRS said:


> Rims are 88mm. Frame is 3k carbon matt finish. Bastard Racing painted matt black along with a black stripe painted along the top tube and up the seatpost..............


Thx for the info. Snazzy looking bike u hv!! cheers


----------



## MrPerkles

asherstash1 said:


> sorted, could you tell me whats the distance between the "muscle" bits in the centre of the bar? im just trying to work out if my clip on tri bars will still fit?? ta . ash


your going to struggle fitting tri bars I have about 10mm either side of a fsa stem


----------



## stubek

MrPerkles said:


> your going to struggle fitting tri bars I have about 10mm either side of a fsa stem



Oval Concepts makes a stem and stem cap that have extension mounts to use with bars like that. I use it on my bike when I need to.

Can't link directly to it, but it is page 2 in their catalog
https://ovalconcepts.com/products.php


----------



## Tri4fun73

MrPerkles said:


> your going to struggle fitting tri bars I have about 10mm either side of a fsa stem


Mr. Perkles should be painting all of our Chinese bikes. I really like this one!


----------



## asherstash1

ta, a bit of creative grinding on the bar clamps shud sort it


----------



## cryoplasm

That would alter the bar, possibly weakening it.


----------



## Local Hero

*Sprinting & Descending*

Which of these frames is best for sprinting and descending? 

I like going fast. I'm looking for something stiff and stable. I'll take responsiveness at the cost of having a harsh ride. I don't mind an extra 100grams on the frame in exchange for these qualities. 

My red BB is english. 

Which model do you guys recommend?

I like the look of the FM015. jenny of hungfu said: 425USD(include FM015+FK007)+55USD(full black matt finish)+15USD(headset)+70USD(shipping cost). Is this a good price? 







I'm also considering a ti frame. There are taiwanese and chinese companies selling them on alibaba. Has anyone tried far east ti?


----------



## cfred84

Local Hero said:


> Which of these frames is best for sprinting and descending?
> 
> I like going fast. I'm looking for something stiff and stable. I'll take responsiveness at the cost of having a harsh ride. I don't mind an extra 100grams on the frame in exchange for these qualities.
> 
> My red BB is english.
> 
> Which model do you guys recommend?
> 
> I like the look of the FM015. jenny of hungfu said: 425USD(include FM015+FK007)+55USD(full black matt finish)+15USD(headset)+70USD(shipping cost). Is this a good price?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I'm also considering a ti frame. There are taiwanese and chinese companies selling them on alibaba. Has anyone tried far east ti?


Dengfu offered me a reasonably better price so I went with them.
Perhaps can ask Jenny oh Hongfu if she can match the price!!
Don't quote me. Get a quote from Mina @Denfu 1st!! Cheers


----------



## ericjacobsen3

*fm015*

The FM015 is the perfect frame for one who wants excellent tracking / stiffness and a cush ride as a second priority. Equal to my Madone except the Madone ride is a tad smoother.

Note that this 5-star review (for a $1900 price on the frame) is of the BB30 version of the FM015 under the Mercury decal. http://www.velonation.com/Gear/Review/View/ID/4196/2009-Mercury-Titan-Review.aspx


----------



## Local Hero

ericjacobsen3 said:


> The FM015 is the perfect frame for one who wants excellent tracking / stiffness and a cush ride as a second priority. Equal to my Madone except the Madone ride is a tad smoother.
> 
> Note that this 5-star review (for a $1900 price on the frame) is of the BB30 version of the FM015 under the Mercury decal. http://www.velonation.com/Gear/Review/View/ID/4196/2009-Mercury-Titan-Review.aspx


Thank you. That's just what I wanted to hear. 

If I can unload my motobecane CF frame for $300 or $400 (shouldn't be too hard), I'm going to pick up an FM015. 

I bought the m'bacon for the sram red grouppo ritchey WCS and ksyrium elites. I was never that interested in their frame anyway. But their frame was made in taiwan and the FM015 is chinese...




EDIT: that review gives the frame weight at both 950 and 1040. 

_The Titan is a 950gram Monocoque frame 
...
The frame weighs in at a scant 1040 grams_


----------



## nickl75

Local Hero said:


> Which of these frames is best for sprinting and descending?
> 
> I like going fast. I'm looking for something stiff and stable. I'll take responsiveness at the cost of having a harsh ride. I don't mind an extra 100grams on the frame in exchange for these qualities.
> 
> My red BB is english.
> 
> Which model do you guys recommend?
> 
> I like the look of the FM015. jenny of hungfu said: 425USD(include FM015+FK007)+55USD(full black matt finish)+15USD(headset)+70USD(shipping cost). Is this a good price?
> 
> I'm also considering a ti frame. There are taiwanese and chinese companies selling them on alibaba. Has anyone tried far east ti?


Everyone who has one seems pretty happy with their FM015. The price seems correct.

I did read a forum post here somewhere about someone who got a custom Ti frame done. They were happy with it. Just don't get Ti forks - too many people have trouble with them.


----------



## asherstash1

cryoplasm said:


> That would alter the bar, possibly weakening it.


 the alloy clamps on the tri bars not the carbon bar! should be ok i think, they dont get flexed very much and there plenty wide enough. although willl follow that link up ta.


----------



## WheresWaldo

ericjacobsen3 said:


> The FM015 is the perfect frame for one who wants excellent tracking / stiffness and a cush ride as a second priority. Equal to my Madone except the Madone ride is a tad smoother.
> 
> Note that this 5-star review (for a $1900 price on the frame) is of the BB30 version of the FM015 under the Mercury decal. http://www.velonation.com/Gear/Review/View/ID/4196/2009-Mercury-Titan-Review.aspx


Interesting review but it appears that Mercury Bicycles is no longer selling frames or complete bikes. Their website only has wheel sets.


----------



## ericjacobsen3

Mercury does appear to have stopped selling bikes. I can understand why when Hongfu is selling the frame at 1/4 the price.

I bought my FM015 from Jenny for a round multiple of a hundred dollars with fork, post, hs, seatpost and shipping. 

She sure must get sick of dealing with a bunch of spoiled American cyclists at reatil when she is trying to run a big chunk of the Hongfu business. She was very helpful. Maybe someone shared the link already but check this thread: http://forums.roadbikereview.com/showthread.php?t=227718&page=3.


----------



## ultraman6970

In my opinion the problem is that many of these companies are trying to sell the frames too expensive. The Chinese even sell the frame already painted or maybe most of the frames painted at request so probably it is minimum what is needed once the frames are in the states, some decals and that's it. I do not blame them but sometimes the margin it is just nutz. 400 bucks a frame then 2000 bucks in the store, thats not right but business is business, right? For example if you buy some of these in the UK it might cost you less, maybe 200 more that it is not that bad.

that fm015 looks nice tho.


----------



## ColoRoadie

Price what the market will bear. If people will pay that markup...so be it. I think the percentage of riders who know where to get a direct from China frame is pretty low and of those there is a smaller percentage brave enough to do so and then build the bike themselves. I wouldn't have known or attempted either without this forum to guide me to which chinese sellers are legit.


----------



## ClarkinHawaii

ericjacobsen3 said:


> I bought my FM015 from Jenny for a round multiple of a hundred dollars with fork, post, hs, seatpost and shipping.
> 
> .


If I understand you correctly, you are saying you paid $300 or $400 or $500 for the package. It would be more informative if you state the amount, rather than making people guess.


----------



## weekendroadie

What are the safest companies from overseas to purchase a RFM101 frameset from.
I know there's greatkeen, then greetkeenbikes or something. The cheapest quote I
recieved was 360 frameset, 65 for paint, 25 for headset from greetkeenbikes.com. Thx


----------



## asherstash1

noone else carrys it except poss on ebay. mrperkles got his from greatkeen, mine should be here this week from them too


----------



## kmonie360

Just wanted to share my Chinese Carbon Build.

This is my first ever time building a bike. I do triathlons so cycling isn't a priority to me, I bought the frame as a winter project and it turned into a one week deal that I just finished today.

This was my bike before, I was using a 1997 Cannondale Cad2 R300. 

*Came stock with Shimano RSX Components. I changed out alot of them. I used almost all components from that bike onto the new one but changed it over to an 8 speed instead of the really out of date 7 speed.










Then I got in some Areo Max Wheels... Reviews were pretty good. Picked them up from crosslakesales on ebay for under 200










Wheels made my old frame look pretty sweet too...










Then I got in the new frame. It's from 2allsports on ebay, this is the ebay image










It came in and it looked good, obviously the carbon weave in the auction and the one i got was different, and the fork is different (or atleast looks different)










So like I said this was my first ever build. I've never even adjusted a derailur before. Here are the rest of the pics



























Finshed Product (Took it for a ride before this pic and poped a tire... so thats why the rear is flat ha!)









Chinese Carbon Frame, Shimano Sora Triple Left front Shifter and Derailer, Shimano 105 8 Speed STI shifter, Tiagra Triple Crankset (with tiny ring removed) and Tiagra Rear Derailer, Shimano SPD Pedals, NECO Integrated Headset, Alloy Stem from icyclesusa.com, TekTro T726R Black Brakes.

Eventually I may upgrade the rest of the components. 


But for now I have a carbon bike and only spent *$667.32*


----------



## equinoxx

Took my fm015 out for its first ride this weekend. Noticed there seemed to be a lot more noise/vibration than on my old aluminum bike. I was under the impression CF tends to soak up noise/vibration better. Everything was tightened down properly and the bike worked great in every other manner. Any thoughts? Can tire choice make a difference in this regard?


----------



## hawker12

I'm wondering if anyone has purchased a 48 or 49 cm Chinese bike? I'm concerned that all of the geometry numbers I'm seeing show TTs that are on the long side, 52-53. I'm looking for something much closer to 50cm.

Anyone?

Thanks.


----------



## mattoid

MrPerkles said:


> the other one is a carbon winter frame that i am spraying for sombody in our cycling club
> The want some white flashes thats all.The frame is said to be from the OE Wilier factory in Taiwan and very very good quality,I have the road version that i sprayed porsche gulf colours



Mr Perkles
lovely paint job, I remember those massive sports racers. showing my age.
Questions;
what model is that frame, who, where, and how much?

It reminds me very much of one my local roadie shop sells as their own. What do you reckon?
m


----------



## ultraman6970

kmonie360 i would do two changes to your build, Actually 3.

1- level the saddle, how u have it now it is not right at all. Hope you have a level.

2- flip the stem.

3- The brake levers are in the wrong position and the hadlebars have the wrong angle, the angle is about a half of what you have right now, and the brake levers are maybe 1 inch too low.

good luck.


----------



## mattoid

You can see the similarity better here: -look at the seatpost cutaway, the way the seat clamp echoes the aero seat tube, the profile of the tubes-


----------



## mattoid

oops. sorry.


----------



## ericjacobsen3

I paid just a little less than you listed. Not $100 less.


----------



## Carabo

SRS said:


> Iam starting to like the chines by now  : Frame, fork, seatpost(modified) by gotobike. Wheelsett by yishun and Group by Luke Skywalker ("May the FORCE be with you").


Great looking bike SRS! What exactly did you modify on the seatpost (and why)?

Thanks!


----------



## weekendroadie

Where did you buy from? Was this the RFM101 pinarello knockoff? What all did you
recieve frame/fork/headset/derailleur hanger/ painted or clear coat? Thx


----------



## Etv5002

*I Figured Id post this as a reminder to becarefull when buying from these chinese dealers on alibaba.

http://www.alibaba.com/product-gs/358731449/Scott_CR1_SL_CD_Carbon_Fiber.html

I mean honestly. But definitely try to protect yourself from making a foolish decision especially when it'll cost you 400+.*


----------



## athletic91

any one manage to source a chinese supplier selling the pedal force RS3?


----------



## alexb618

alexb618 said:


> update : shipped yesterday with tracking... the 5 day lead time was more like 20 hours
> 
> wasnt expecting anything until late next week, happy thus far


in my hands now, fm015 ISP 3k with no clear coat ready to be painted, $470 landed

i am shocked and really impressed

i recommend deng fu (i dealt with mina) highly


----------



## asherstash1

weekendroadie said:


> Where did you buy from? Was this the RFM101 pinarello knockoff? What all did you
> recieve frame/fork/headset/derailleur hanger/ painted or clear coat? Thx


mrperkles has got pictures o his frame and fork a few pages back, unpainted then painted. mine was as of 5pm yesterday at coventry airport customs. mines just clearcoated, his maybe nor as he was spraying it. both from greatkeenbike.com, both with supplied headsets i think.


----------



## lobo

equinoxx said:


> Took my fm015 out for its first ride this weekend. Noticed there seemed to be a lot more noise/vibration than on my old aluminum bike. I was under the impression CF tends to soak up noise/vibration better. Everything was tightened down properly and the bike worked great in every other manner. Any thoughts? Can tire choice make a difference in this regard?


I have fm015 as well and my impresions are just opposite to yours, my previous bike was Giant OCR alu and was much more noisy and hursh. Yes, tires can do difference, ie I switched from Schwalbe Stelvio to Vittoria CX 320 tpi and now ride is much, much better, quiet and hursh free.


----------



## lobo

hawker12 said:


> I'm wondering if anyone has purchased a 48 or 49 cm Chinese bike? I'm concerned that all of the geometry numbers I'm seeing show TTs that are on the long side, 52-53. I'm looking for something much closer to 50cm.
> 
> Anyone?
> 
> Thanks.


Yes, I own fm015 49 cm with 504 mm top tube. I am 5'4" and the frame fits me perfectly.


----------



## NiklasUK

Anyone know where to buy that OE Wilier Imperiale Chorus "copy" like the one MrPerkles sprayed up in the Gulf Porsche colours ?


----------



## athletic91

its far from OE Wilier Imperiale Chorus "copy" ... totally diff frame


----------



## ultraman6970

This guy needs pictures hehehe










Yes, not even close.


----------



## SRS

Carabo said:


> Great looking bike SRS! What exactly did you modify on the seatpost (and why)?
> 
> Thanks!


That seatpost was so freaking heavy. I had to take it fatcamp, and it came back slimmer. Clamping mecanism was overdimensioned. so i tok it down quite a bit, same with area on post behind the clamp. Also changed out the bolt with a titanium one. That seatpost was stated to weigh 200?? i think, if i dont remember wrong it came out like 240. Think i got it down to 215 or 220 if i am not mistaken. If you want a light seatpost i would not recomend this one 


athletic91: any one manage to source a chinese supplier selling the pedal force RS3? 

Its the one i am riding, But i think it might be difficult to get ahold of the one without isp, because De Rosa boght the mould.


----------



## NiklasUK

ultraman6970 said:


> This guy needs pictures hehehe Yes, not even close.


My bad, MrPerkles indicated it came from the taiwan Wilier factory. I saw a Wilier with the seatpost cutout and thought that was it doh!


----------



## athletic91

@SRS

Care to specify which derosa model is the RS3?


----------



## skyline377

weekendroadie said:


> What are the safest companies from overseas to purchase a RFM101 frameset from.
> I know there's greatkeen, then greetkeenbikes or something. The cheapest quote I
> recieved was 360 frameset, 65 for paint, 25 for headset from greetkeenbikes.com. Thx




I am trying to work with Ms Hu @ greatkeenbike.com and I got the same quote which paint scheme did you want them to paint???


----------



## asherstash1

im just hoping my bike is not affected by the bloody bomb scares, tracked as far as coventry customs on sunday...


----------



## hawker12

Lobo, you have a PM.


----------



## lobo

hawker12 said:


> Lobo, you have a PM.


OK.
you have a reply.


----------



## SRS

athletic91 said:


> @SRS
> 
> Care to specify which derosa model is the RS3?



Thing is they are using the mould but it is different in apperance, but has the same geometry 

http://www.satincesena.net/?tag=de-rosa-r848

De Rosa's 2011 R848, manufactured by Xpace Industrial Co. in Xiamen

De Rosa has bought the mould, thats why xpace no longer has this model in their lineup.....

The one with isp is still available.


----------



## ntb1001

I just received two frames this week from greatkeenbikes. I have bought frames before as well and I have only dealt with Ms.Hu. I have never had any problems dealing wit them, and the frames always are more than acceptable.

This time I bought the Pinarello Prince frames, and I have had one built up at the LBS.

Lots of pictures...


----------



## kk5551

ntb1001 said:


> I just received two frames this week from greatkeenbikes. I have bought frames before as well and I have only dealt with Ms.Hu. I have never had any problems dealing wit them, and the frames always are more than acceptable.
> 
> This time I bought the Pinarello Prince frames, and I have had one built up at the LBS.
> 
> Lots of pictures...



Thank you for sharing. What does the cost look like on these? Beautiful frames!!


----------



## deviousalex

ntb1001 said:


> I just received two frames this week from greatkeenbikes. I have bought frames before as well and I have only dealt with Ms.Hu. I have never had any problems dealing wit them, and the frames always are more than acceptable.
> 
> This time I bought the Pinarello Prince frames, and I have had one built up at the LBS.
> 
> Lots of pictures...


Do you not feel guilty blatantly ripping off Pinarello? I'm talking about the paint scheme, not the geometry or the frame overall.


----------



## ultraman6970

Hi, awesome Chinarellos 

Well the paint job pretty similar but if they do it just like the original probably pinarello will complain hehehe 

How does it rides? havent heard anything about the way they ride.

Congrats


----------



## ultraman6970

Hi, awesome Chinarellos


----------



## weekendroadie

Frames look really nice, How does the paint look close up? it looks nice in the pictures.
What was final price on frame/fork/headset/paint. Thx


----------



## tarzan13

would love to know what frame that is too... 

thanks



mattoid said:


> Mr Perkles
> lovely paint job, I remember those massive sports racers. showing my age.
> Questions;
> what model is that frame, who, where, and how much?
> 
> It reminds me very much of one my local roadie shop sells as their own. What do you reckon?
> m


----------



## weekendroadie

Frame is a RFM101 pinarello knock off.


----------



## weekendroadie

ntb1001 said:


> I just received two frames this week from greatkeenbikes. I have bought frames before as well and I have only dealt with Ms.Hu. I have never had any problems dealing wit them, and the frames always are more than acceptable.
> 
> This time I bought the Pinarello Prince frames, and I have had one built up at the LBS.
> 
> Lots of pictures...



As far as sizing the 54cm states 53.3cm top tube and the 56cm states a 54.9cm top
tube. I'am 5'9", right now I'am riding a specialized 54cm with a 54.8cm toptube with a 110mm stem and a LS siena 54cm with a 54cm toptube and a 115mm stem probably safer
to go with 56cm frame then? The way there are measured is misleading abit. If there 
pinarello knock offs would you compare headtube size to a real pinarello headtube size
for comparsion to size?


----------



## tarzan13

weekendroadie said:


> Frame is a RFM101 pinarello knock off.


Sorry, i meant this one: http://forums.roadbikereview.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=215180&stc=1&d=1288563944

thanks


----------



## BernyMac

Awesome Chinarellos...how much did they cost you overall?


----------



## ColoRoadie

Ok, now I'm seriously thinking about putting CHINARELLO on my dengfu fm027. You guys are hysterical.


----------



## ultraman6970

Why not? in that way some of the guys who have the real think wont think you are lame  hehehe I bet nobody will notice at 1st sight and will be pretty funny also  More than somebody will say.. hey nice pinarell.... what?? china... what???

Just in case do not say china like in English china... but like this... chi like in tai-chi and na like in na...chi-na-rello.


----------



## ultraman6970

Anybody have seen the RFM103 ??? The only pictures i have seen are the CG image.


----------



## Ventruck

deviousalex said:


> Do you not feel guilty blatantly ripping off Pinarello? I'm talking about the paint scheme, not the geometry or the frame overall.


I don't think "guilt" would be the concern, but why he "conformed" to imitating a brand of all things when he had a clean palette of a frame to work with. At the end of the day, a good bike doesn't have to say "Pinarello" on it...well, it may have to say "Trek", though. 

Nonetheless, the paint job and build was done very well. And I hope it rides nicely.


----------



## swaz

*New FM015 from DengFu*

Arrived home this afternoon to my new FM015 

I bought it from Mina @ DengFu Sports and did the whole deal via MSN and email. The service exceeded that of my local bike shops and chatting to her online live was a major advantage. I placed my order on the 26.10.10 (10.26.10 for you Americans) and it arrived 2.11.10 (11.2.10).
Mina had told me not to sign for the goods until I had opened it and inspected it. However the Australia Post bloke told my wife that they wont let a package be opened until it was signed for. If the box has severe damage, get a note added when you sign.

I opened mine like I was defusing a bomb! First impressions were WOW it's light. Got out my scales and the frame comes in at 1125 grams and the fork 425 grams. I couldn't find any major imperfections. I guess there are a few tiny ones, but seeing as I have no other high end frame to compare it too it could be found in all carbon frames.

Clear coat is perfect and the 3k weave looks hot! Here are some photos. The built will commence soon. Seems a shame to put old gear on such an awesome frame.


----------



## asherstash1

where is mine!!!!!!! has anyone actually had one of them stopped by customs anywhere? they look brilliant though, good job, what they ride like?


----------



## LarsEjaas

asherstash1 said:


> where is mine!!!!!!! has anyone actually had one of them stopped by customs anywhere? they look brilliant though, good job, what they ride like?


OF COURSE!!! 
NOTHING, and I repeat NOTHING at that size will get through Danish customs without opening and a thorough investigation...


----------



## alexb618

in case anyone is wondering - if you have an ISP frame and feel the urge to go back to a traditional seat post, you can cut the ISP off and use a 31.6 post still


----------



## asherstash1

im in the uk though, if danish customs are involved i have SERIOUS issues


----------



## dmabraham

alexb618 said:


> in case anyone is wondering - if you have an ISP frame and feel the urge to go back to a traditional seat post, you can cut the ISP off and use a 31.6 post still


Did you just lop the post off level and put a seat clamp on? Which size clamp?


----------



## triathlete

ntb1001 said:


> I just received two frames this week from greatkeenbikes. I have bought frames before as well and I have only dealt with Ms.Hu. I have never had any problems dealing wit them, and the frames always are more than acceptable.
> 
> This time I bought the Pinarello Prince frames, and I have had one built up at the LBS.
> 
> Lots of pictures...


how much was it cost?


----------



## skyline377

triathlete said:


> how much was it cost?


I just ordered mine and it cost $536 shipped for frame fork headset and the paint job


----------



## Local Hero

swaz said:


> Arrived home this afternoon to my new FM015
> ...
> Got out my scales and the frame comes in at 1125 grams


What size is the frame? 

(Thanks for the review and pictures. Your bike looks great.)


----------



## Vitus06

skyline377 said:


> I just ordered mine and it cost $536 shipped for frame fork headset and the paint job


Have ordered this for me and my girlfriend.
In the same colors as skyline337
2 RFM101 46CM FRAME+FORK 
2 headsets 
2 handlebar RHB003 
2 stem 100/110mm 
2 seatpost fsa 
Paypal fee + delivery cost

US$1,258


----------



## hawker12

Vitus06 said:


> Have ordered this for me and my girlfriend.
> In the same colors as skyline337
> 2 RFM101 46CM FRAME+FORK
> 2 headsets
> 2 handlebar RHB003
> 2 stem 100/110mm
> 2 seatpost fsa
> Paypal fee + delivery cost
> 
> US$1,258



Vitus,
Do you know what the TT length is on those 46cm frames (effective TT length)

Thanks.


----------



## swaz

Local Hero said:


> What size is the frame?
> 
> (Thanks for the review and pictures. Your bike looks great.)


It's a 53cm. I am 175cm tall


----------



## Vitus06

hawker12 said:


> Vitus,
> Do you know what the TT length is on those 46cm frames (effective TT length)
> 
> Thanks.


Full Carbon Road Frame RFM101

Size:

C-T 465mm(top 499.2/516mm)

C-T 540mm(top 523.1/533mm)

C-T 560mm(top 539.7/549mm)


http://www.greatkeenbike.com/main/home/cp_detail.php?id=64&nowmenuid=12&cpath=0009:&catid=0


----------



## adam_mac84

Well, my frame shipped friday, and arrived today (5 days from china to michigan). I am installing the headset currently, and there are 2 very thin washers that came with the headset. I have never seen these in any exploded diagrams (i am using Zinn road bike maintenance book primarily.). Do these go on top of the headset under the first spacer?


----------



## Vitus06

I'm still waiting for our frames and headsets so I unfortunately have no idea how they will be mounted. Check with any of the others who bought the same frame if they also bought headsets and if they know how they will be installed.


----------



## lobo

adam_mac84 said:


> Well, my frame shipped friday, and arrived today (5 days from china to michigan). I am installing the headset currently, and there are 2 very thin washers that came with the headset. I have never seen these in any exploded diagrams (i am using Zinn road bike maintenance book primarily.). Do these go on top of the headset under the first spacer?


 I have no idea what to do with these washers, ignored them.


----------



## adam_mac84

lobo, i got my bottom bearing pressed in, and the fork is seated properly on the bottom, but there is a small gap on the top of the head tube (the bearing that doesn't press in). With a cane creek dust cover, it seats properly (no gap). With the provided one, there is a small gap, did you get this same thing? 

Pics are on hold because i accidently left the camera on .nef format, this computer (Wife's work comp, does not support)

LOBO https://www.canecreek.com/manuals/Headset_Instructions/S_Series/IS_Instructions.pdf In that pic the skinny little washer is a shim on top of the compression ring


Thus far, i can already tell those people looking for large frames (60cm) from china companies, the fork steerer is definatly just long enough. Basically i am going to run the taipered spacer under the stem, and one spacer above, and that's about as high as things will get with the 20cm headtube on a 60cm frame. It is actually going to fit perfectly from what i can tell right now with 8* stem up, however, this may be a problem for others who are looking for VERY relaxed geometry (like specialized roubaix)

edit: added pics










the cane creek 'cap'









the provided cap

















the fork race


----------



## lobo

Hm, yours is VP headset, mine is NECO. The gap I have under dast cover is very, very thin, say no more then 0.3-0.5 mm, so no problem for me.
Thanks for manual diagrams.


----------



## adam_mac84

lobo said:


> Hm, yours is VP headset, mine is NECO. The gap I have under dast cover is very, very thin, say no more then 0.3-0.5 mm, so no problem for me.
> Thanks for manual diagrams.


Mine is Neco, i just found the diagram for reference to those 'washers'. I used the cane creek top cap just to see if it was my Neco top cap. I also tried tightening it down with the compression plug as i would if assembling to ride. No joy on having the small gap disappear, but it is not noticable with the cane creek. I may just purchase a cane creek top (dust) cap, and it should all be good


----------



## lobo

adam_mac84 said:


> I may just purchase a cane creek top (dust) cap, and it should all be good


Do that.


----------



## alexb618

dmabraham said:


> Did you just lop the post off level and put a seat clamp on? Which size clamp?


i havent cut it but i slipped a 31.6 post in just out of curiosity

the correct size would be a 34.9

you would also have to cut a slot in the back of the seat tube so the clamp doesnt crush the carbon (look at any frame to see what i mean)


----------



## kk5551

Two questions:

Does anyone know for certain what frame this is? I know that it is a Chinese frame based on some blog entries from the companies owner. He is pretty up front about it. Definitely not the FM015, and the seat stays seem beefier than the FM028. Thoughts??

http://www.ritteracing.com/store/rittecatalog/product/viewspecs/id/53

Also, I currently ride a 56cm Specialized Tarmac and have been looking at the FM015. Looks like quite the jump from a 55cm to a 58cm in that frame. I have a longer torso. Most of the bike calculators put me on a 55-56 seat tube and a 57-57.5cm top tube. I would like to go with the FM015 55cm, but am a bit afraid that it will be a bit compact up top. Therefore I am thinking that the FM028 may be better at 56cm seat and 56cm TT.

Thoughts?


----------



## MrPerkles

NiklasUK said:


> My bad, MrPerkles indicated it came from the taiwan Wilier factory. I saw a Wilier with the seatpost cutout and thought that was it doh!


it is from wilier and not a copy but an old model that they sell to retailers direct


----------



## ultraman6970

adam_mac84 said:


> the cane creek 'cap'
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> the provided cap
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> the fork race


Are u sure that what the bike needs is a cane creek 36 degrees integrated headset? From how the bearing is seating in there probably (at least the upper part) looks like a italian 45 degrees? The campagnolo 45x45 degrees bearing is lower and seats deeper, then the ring has a little cut, that goes in there, 1st time I see shims that thick in a headset. Just mentioning because somebody in other forums had to do that and at least to me there should not be that so much room. What to the bearing say?? 36x45 degrees or something?


----------



## 1805078

*Rafiah Sport*

Has anyone used Rafiah Sport before. There bikes are fairly cheap so that tells me thay could be scammers.

http://www.rafiahsport.com

cheers guys


----------



## hawker12

Vitus06 said:


> Full Carbon Road Frame RFM101
> 
> Size:
> 
> C-T 465mm(top 499.2/516mm)
> 
> C-T 540mm(top 523.1/533mm)
> 
> C-T 560mm(top 539.7/549mm)
> 
> 
> http://www.greatkeenbike.com/main/home/cp_detail.php?id=64&nowmenuid=12&cpath=0009:&catid=0



Thanks Vitus, I presume the first number is actual TT and the second is virtual?

Still looking for a TT that is 51cm or less, anyone find a Chinese frame with top tube that short? Yes....I have checked the primary sources that are discussed here. Interestingly many of the sellers do indicate TT length but often do not tell you if it is exact length or virtual on compact frames or frames with a curved TT.

Thanks.


----------



## karlo

adam_mac84 said:


> Well, my frame shipped friday, and arrived today (5 days from china to michigan). I am installing the headset currently, and there are 2 very thin washers that came with the headset. I have never seen these in any exploded diagrams (i am using Zinn road bike maintenance book primarily.). Do these go on top of the headset under the first spacer?



My LBS told me to put one right on top of the headset and the other inside on top of the bearings, don't know if they were just guessing but I have not had any problems so far. Hope this makes sense


----------



## The_AwesomeSauce_Show

Does anybody know what Chinese carbon frame company makes this Pinarello frame? Or is this too new to these companies?











Trying to build my first tt bike


----------



## ultraman6970

1805078 said:


> Has anyone used Rafiah Sport before. There bikes are fairly cheap so that tells me thay could be scammers.
> 
> http://www.rafiahsport.com
> 
> cheers guys



Call them  

Jl.Krakatau No. 10A
Medan
Sumatera Utara
20561
Indonesia

E-mail: [email protected] view it.
Telephone: +62616614582
Mobile Phone Number: +6285761568130 

And ask them what hotel is that in the picture. looks like a ramada? 

I would not get shlT from there, still remember the ones that were selling the bmc impect with all shimano for 1500 dols. Even if you ask them they tell you that they really have the stuff


----------



## The_AwesomeSauce_Show

ultraman6970 said:


> Call them
> 
> Jl.Krakatau No. 10A
> Medan
> Sumatera Utara
> 20561
> Indonesia
> 
> E-mail: [email protected] view it.
> Telephone: +62616614582
> Mobile Phone Number: +6285761568130
> 
> And ask them what hotel is that in the picture. looks like a ramada?


Of course they're legit, they are powered by RAFIAH CREW!!!!(they should've put 5 of these "!" to have MAXIMUM EFFECT!!!!:mad5: :mad5:


----------



## Vitus06

hawker12 said:


> Thanks Vitus, I presume the first number is actual TT and the second is virtual?
> 
> Still looking for a TT that is 51cm or less, anyone find a Chinese frame with top tube that short? Yes....I have checked the primary sources that are discussed here. Interestingly many of the sellers do indicate TT length but often do not tell you if it is exact length or virtual on compact frames or frames with a curved TT.
> 
> Thanks.


Unfortunately I can not recall having seen a frame of 51 cm or less.
It is a problem with these suppliers that they only make a limited number of sizes. 
Good luck and hope you find what you are looking for.


----------



## ultraman6970

Anybody have seen the RFM103 ???


----------



## Halfie

Can anyone tell me whether these Time Trial bike frames' estimated weights on the china websites (For example a Deng Fu TT, where the estimated weight is about 1375 - 1780g depending on which image you're looking at) consists of the whole thing (frame, post and fork) or just the frame by itself? 1780g seems like a lot of weight for just a frame, even if they have to be more structurally sound?


----------



## cww180

*New This Month*

There is one coming out this month that is 51.5 is the RF035 from Yishun.



hawker12 said:


> Thanks Vitus, I presume the first number is actual TT and the second is virtual?
> 
> Still looking for a TT that is 51cm or less, anyone find a Chinese frame with top tube that short? Yes....I have checked the primary sources that are discussed here. Interestingly many of the sellers do indicate TT length but often do not tell you if it is exact length or virtual on compact frames or frames with a curved TT.
> 
> Thanks.


----------



## asherstash1

kk5551 said:


> Two questions:
> 
> Does anyone know for certain what frame this is? I know that it is a Chinese frame based on some blog entries from the companies owner. He is pretty up front about it. Definitely not the FM015, and the seat stays seem beefier than the FM028. Thoughts??
> 
> http://www.ritteracing.com/store/rittecatalog/product/viewspecs/id/53
> 
> Also, I currently ride a 56cm Specialized Tarmac and have been looking at the FM015. Looks like quite the jump from a 55cm to a 58cm in that frame. I have a longer torso. Most of the bike calculators put me on a 55-56 seat tube and a 57-57.5cm top tube. I would like to go with the FM015 55cm, but am a bit afraid that it will be a bit compact up top. Therefore I am thinking that the FM028 may be better at 56cm seat and 56cm TT.
> 
> Thoughts?



reading the buyer reviews on the website, heres a ringin endorsement lol

"“My Bosberg has gotten me laid three times this week. And I'm married!”

-Lucky "

i want one


----------



## pedal_damn_it

I finally received my frame and other stuff I ordered. The box looks like everyone elses, busted up and open. But those people can sure bubble-wrap very well. Everything looks great. Once it was shipped it only took about 5 days (including the weekend) to get to NJ. So that was great! I will be building this frame up over the winter. Thanks for your help everyone.


----------



## ultraman6970

The bossberg looks like this one.

http://cgi.ebay.com/Brand-New-Full-...70657204032?pt=Road_Bikes&hash=item3f046d2f40

At least the tt looks like it...




kk5551 said:


> Two questions:
> 
> Does anyone know for certain what frame this is? I know that it is a Chinese frame based on some blog entries from the companies owner. He is pretty up front about it. Definitely not the FM015, and the seat stays seem beefier than the FM028. Thoughts??
> 
> http://www.ritteracing.com/store/rittecatalog/product/viewspecs/id/53
> 
> Also, I currently ride a 56cm Specialized Tarmac and have been looking at the FM015. Looks like quite the jump from a 55cm to a 58cm in that frame. I have a longer torso. Most of the bike calculators put me on a 55-56 seat tube and a 57-57.5cm top tube. I would like to go with the FM015 55cm, but am a bit afraid that it will be a bit compact up top. Therefore I am thinking that the FM028 may be better at 56cm seat and 56cm TT.
> 
> Thoughts?


----------



## ultraman6970

More info in that bosgerg

http://cheapcarbonframes.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=8&t=4

http://weightweenies.starbike.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=10&t=74005&start=0

http://vimeo.com/12059824

And this is the best one hehehe

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8uS37-oPMPc


----------



## stubek

Halfie said:


> Can anyone tell me whether these Time Trial bike frames' estimated weights on the china websites (For example a Deng Fu TT, where the estimated weight is about 1375 - 1780g depending on which image you're looking at) consists of the whole thing (frame, post and fork) or just the frame by itself? 1780g seems like a lot of weight for just a frame, even if they have to be more structurally sound?


I think 1780 is the full frame and fork and would include the seat post if it is ISP. If no ISP, then probably not including seat post.

Remember that most TT bikes are a bit heavier because of the extra material to make them aero. My Scott Plasma2 with full ultegra comes in at nearly 19.5 pounds. My scott CR1 with Ultegra was 2 pounds lighter.


----------



## zender

ultraman6970 said:


> More info in that bosgerg
> 
> http://cheapcarbonframes.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=8&t=4
> 
> http://weightweenies.starbike.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=10&t=74005&start=0
> 
> http://vimeo.com/12059824
> 
> And this is the best one hehehe
> 
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8uS37-oPMPc


$1780 for about $500 worth of frame (less if theyr'e ordering a bunch I suspect). That's a nice profit margin. I'm going to go out on a limb and say this business model (take a no-name Chinese frame, paint it and rebrand it to a "custom" brand and sell it with a 250% markup) is not going to work.


----------



## Jetmugg

I have started down the path of buying an fm-022 Cyclocross f&f setup, dealing with Coby @ hongfu. This will be a custom painted Christmas gift for my wife - I'll be sure to post updates and pics as this project moves along.

SteveM.


----------



## steinbach

Jetmugg said:


> I have started down the path of buying an fm-022 Cyclocross f&f setup, dealing with Coby @ hongfu. This will be a custom painted Christmas gift for my wife - I'll be sure to post updates and pics as this project moves along.
> 
> SteveM.


do you have any info about the delivery time? because i asked for this frame weeks ago and he told me a lead time of app. 3 month 
Do you received geo charts?
Thanks


----------



## asad137

zender said:


> $1780 for about $500 worth of frame (less if theyr'e ordering a bunch I suspect). That's a nice profit margin. I'm going to go out on a limb and say this business model (take a no-name Chinese frame, paint it and rebrand it to a "custom" brand and sell it with a 250% markup) is not going to work.


Tell that to Pinarello.

Asad


----------



## MrPerkles

ultraman6970 said:


> More info in that bosgerg
> 
> http://cheapcarbonframes.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=8&t=4
> 
> http://weightweenies.starbike.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=10&t=74005&start=0
> 
> http://vimeo.com/12059824
> 
> And this is the best one hehehe
> 
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8uS37-oPMPc


im spraying my brothers carbon winter frame bosberg colours


----------



## Jetmugg

steinbach said:


> do you have any info about the delivery time? because i asked for this frame weeks ago and he told me a lead time of app. 3 month
> Do you received geo charts?
> Thanks


Coby told me that he would send geometry charts to my personal email (we were communicating through Alibaba at the time). Hopefully, he will be good to his word and I will have them some time this evening. I'm also inquiring about custom paint. He has not yet quoted me a delivery time. I'm hoping that it could be done before Christmas.

I'm trying to figure out if this fm-022 frame matches the specs for any of the "Name Brand" 'cross bikes. I haven't figured that out yet, but I'm certainly not a 'cross frame expert. Would you have any idea if it's modeled after a more well known frame?

Steve


----------



## zender

asad137 said:


> Tell that to Pinarello.
> 
> Asad


You'll note the "custom" brand in quotes. By that, I'm suggesting that it is not a well-recognized, heavily marketed brand. Not that there is necessarily real value added from all that marketing, but I am aware that all the magazine ads and "Italian craftmanship" and notoriety for being an expensive brand does work and _is_ a valid business model. This is different than branding it with a name that isn't well-known, or heavily advertised and trying to do the same thing.


----------



## kk5551

Thanks for the response regardign the Ritte bikes..

Any additional thoughts regarding the sizing dilemma between the FM015 and FM028 that I reference below? Thanks!



kk5551 said:


> Two questions:
> 
> Does anyone know for certain what frame this is? I know that it is a Chinese frame based on some blog entries from the companies owner. He is pretty up front about it. Definitely not the FM015, and the seat stays seem beefier than the FM028. Thoughts??
> 
> http://www.ritteracing.com/store/rittecatalog/product/viewspecs/id/53
> 
> Also, I currently ride a 56cm Specialized Tarmac and have been looking at the FM015. Looks like quite the jump from a 55cm to a 58cm in that frame. I have a longer torso. Most of the bike calculators put me on a 55-56 seat tube and a 57-57.5cm top tube. I would like to go with the FM015 55cm, but am a bit afraid that it will be a bit compact up top. Therefore I am thinking that the FM028 may be better at 56cm seat and 56cm TT.
> 
> Thoughts?


----------



## gospastic

i have the bosberg - i love it.


----------



## stubek

gospastic said:


> i have the bosberg - i love it.


Did it at least come with a poster of the girl on their website laying with the bike?


----------



## ultraman6970

gospastic said:


> i have the bosberg - i love it.


Posting is worthless w/o pictures


----------



## ultraman6970

zender said:


> $1780 for about $500 worth of frame (less if theyr'e ordering a bunch I suspect). That's a nice profit margin. I'm going to go out on a limb and say this business model (take a no-name Chinese frame, paint it and rebrand it to a "custom" brand and sell it with a 250% markup) is not going to work.


Well if you look at it, the darn frame is a mix of models, the rear end is the same as a pedal force the TT and DT who knows. Either way the pedal force that looks like it is sold for 800 bucks.

Send an email to ritte and this is what i got...

Ritte Support Team
to me

Hi 
,
The Bosberg frame set is $2150. We are currently sold out but will be selling to international customers again in February.

Cheers,
Spencer


If you sell only a few of units the price can be kept high because the offer is low and the demand will be high, specially with those reviews and the serious bad ass paint job. Dunno, 2 grands it is too much for me, even I doubt i will be able to afford the bmc roadracer 2011 because is around 2000 also. Good for the chinese people i guess, right?


----------



## snippy

USPS tried to deliver my fm015 yesterday - just 11 days after I placed the order. I picked it up at the post office today. It's sweet! Can't wait to build it up!

Here are some weights for you:

FM015 (55cm) Not ISP, English BB + fork (uncut): 1128 + 425
Headset: 116
HB003: 283 (disappointing but expected)
Bottle Cages (2): 53
Seatpost (SP003): 204 (very happy weight was as quoted)

Should be about 16lbs after I build it up with the force/rival set I pieced together off ebay/cl.

Pics/specs to follow in a few days...


----------



## weekendroadie

Regarding the RFM101 pinarello knock off the sizes on there charts listed as 56cm with
only a 55cm top tube? I guess there measuring from c b/b to very top of seat post tube vs
where pinarello measures from c b/b to only top of top tube not top of seat post and the 
same frame from pinarello would only be a 54cm. Plus head tube in chinese version is
152cm and a real pinarello in 54 cm is 152cm head tube. There is only 2 sizes from chinese version I fit that's offered a 56cm or 54cm with top tubes of 55cm and 53.3cm.
The real pinarello version in 54cm or 51.5cm with top tubes of 55cm and 53.5cm. I'am 
5'8.5" what size should I go for? big frame shorter stem or smaller frame long stem. I'am
abit longer in the leg and right now ride a specialized 54cm with a 54.8cm top tube but
it's very compact so lots of stand over. But with the bigger size RFm101 more worried about standover height. any input appreciated. Thx


----------



## adam_mac84

As promised, here are some pics of my FM028 frame/fork that arrived. I am $1000 into this bike as it sits without bar tape, however the cross bike in the background lacks a stem, and i need to get some 42cm bars (there are 44's on there for 'mock up'). I do not have a scale to weigh it, sorry.

Undamaged box, took 5 days to ship.
<a href="https://www.flickr.com/photos/adam_mac84/5144112693/" title="Untitled by adam_mac84, on Flickr"><img src="https://farm2.static.flickr.com/1148/5144112693_2b3bcdf3b6.jpg" width="500" height="331" alt="" /></a>

Very well packaged contents, no damage
<a href="https://www.flickr.com/photos/adam_mac84/5144689796/" title="Untitled by adam_mac84, on Flickr"><img src="https://farm5.static.flickr.com/4024/5144689796_3aeac965d9.jpg" width="500" height="331" alt="" /></a>
<a href="https://www.flickr.com/photos/adam_mac84/5144088587/" title="Untitled by adam_mac84, on Flickr"><img src="https://farm5.static.flickr.com/4145/5144088587_f18d5e68dd.jpg" width="500" height="331" alt="" /></a>
<a href="https://www.flickr.com/photos/adam_mac84/5144694556/" title="Untitled by adam_mac84, on Flickr"><img src="https://farm2.static.flickr.com/1149/5144694556_e248fcbc96.jpg" width="500" height="331" alt="" /></a>

The only 'blemish' in the carbon weave
<a href="https://www.flickr.com/photos/adam_mac84/5144120657/" title="Untitled by adam_mac84, on Flickr"><img src="https://farm5.static.flickr.com/4003/5144120657_46d7d3a1ae.jpg" width="500" height="331" alt="" /></a>

Built up with black full 105 groupset
<a href="https://www.flickr.com/photos/adam_mac84/5144098789/" title="Untitled by adam_mac84, on Flickr"><img src="https://farm2.static.flickr.com/1126/5144098789_f58c1157f7.jpg" width="500" height="333" alt="" /></a>]


----------



## ultraman6970

so? where are the pictures?

Edit: nice built  congrats... flip the step


----------



## adam_mac84

Edit, something weird is going on here... i will try to edit above post... the photos are from flickr, not sure why it's not working

edit edit: fixed, and no white garage door pics today because it's raining outside. I also can't test ride for at least 5 weeks due to a broken leg... i might take it to a big hill and ride down though... because i am curious


----------



## ultraman6970

Anybody if there is a model for the tank matrix F-35???


----------



## swaz

What size FD clamp size is everyone using for their FM015?


----------



## Crawf

swaz said:


> What size FD clamp size is everyone using for their FM015?


34.9mm


----------



## Crawf

*Downtube barrel adjuster thread size?*

For the FM015 & FM028, does anyone know what thread sizes will be on the downtube adjuster mounts? 
Is it 5 or 7mm?


----------



## swaz

Thank you sir


----------



## swaz

Crawf said:


> For the FM015 & FM028, does anyone know what thread sizes will be on the downtube adjuster mounts?
> Is it 5 or 7mm?


I'm going to say 5mm but will measure for u.


----------



## swaz

Some more pics
Trying to build it whilst keeping my 2 y.o daughter amused at the same time. So it's taking longer than I thought!


















The top bearing doesn't seem to fit all that well


----------



## swaz

doh, double post


----------



## BlackDoggystyle

Ik think you misplaced some parts on that headset. And is that the bearing itself on top of that metal ring? And what metal ring is that? It's not like on the bottom that you need to place the metal ring underneith. The bearing goes directly in the frame and the metal spacer goes on top.

Difficult to see because the picture doesn't show very clear how you build up the upper section of the headset. But I'm sure this is f*cked *p.


----------



## swaz

BlackDoggystyle said:


> Ik think you misplaced some parts on that headset. And is that the bearing itself on top of that metal ring? And what metal ring is that? It's not like on the bottom that you need to place the metal ring underneith. The bearing goes directly in the frame and the metal spacer goes on top.
> 
> Difficult to see because the picture doesn't show very clear how you build up the upper section of the headset. But I'm sure this is f*cked *p.


Not sure I did.
I put the bearing in the bearing up inside the frame. Then the split ring red thing, then the black weather cap. The bearing doesn't sit down in the frame enough. And it wont go down any further coz I wacked it with a mallet to make sure...

Open to suggestions though.


----------



## asherstash1

meh, how would u suggest i resize these bloody photos any1?


----------



## ultraman6970

BlackDoggystyle said:


> Ik think you misplaced some parts on that headset. And is that the bearing itself on top of that metal ring? And what metal ring is that? It's not like on the bottom that you need to place the metal ring underneith. The bearing goes directly in the frame and the metal spacer goes on top.
> 
> Difficult to see because the picture doesn't show very clear how you build up the upper section of the headset. But I'm sure this is f*cked *p.



Black dog there is a little issue that i been noticing with these chinese frames that has come sort of often, the headset size. In two other forums the same issues regarding the headsets also. i'm under the impression the frames are campagnolo standar instead of 36x45 cane creek, the bearings in campagnolo are 45x45 degrees and are thinner so the two bearings seat deeper in the races, you can put a 36 degrees bearing in a campagnolo standard races in a frame but you get the problem this guy is having and in the long term u know what it will happens with the races, the ring you see in there is pretty weird because from i have noticed these headsets come with shims? 1st time i heard about shims, the standards are pretty well establish so why to use shims?.

The headsets are pretty straight forward and should not need a shim besides the ring with a cut that goes over the upper bearing to keep the fork in the right position, then you place the cup. As a comment there is a big chance that the seller only knows the words "cane creek" and do not realize that cane creek manufactures integrated headsets in their own standard and italian standard (campagnolo), so they just throw what ever pieces in the box. Just wonder if they know exactly which is the right head set because this question about the headsets is kind'a recurrent.

I own two bikes, a bmc and a kuota, both have no problems with spacing in the headsets at all not as the pictures above. Had a ridley a few years ago and no problems either, I had used FSA, campagnolo and Cane creek headsets but all in the right size also.

Ok posting too long ;P


----------



## WheresWaldo

Ultraman6970 is correct, the headset standard used in the FM015 is Campagnolo Hiddenset (sometimes called Italian Integrated) top and 1.5" Integrated bottom. If you do not order one with the frame FSA sells one that fits, it is the Orbit CF-40.

With regard to shims, there is the split spacer included with the headset and some headsets come with additional shims. FSA also sells these and they call them Micro-spacers. These are sometimes necessary to get the gap between the headset cap and the head tube to come out even and not bind when tightened.

In all cases unless there is some other issue with the head tube, there should not be any of these problems posted here. I would venture to say that in most all the cases in these three Chinese Frame threads the issue is using the wrong type of bearing.

While there are many standards out there, the three most widely accepted are the Cane Creek, the Campagnolo, and the TH standard. All three use angular contact bearings (ACB). Each bearing uses its own proprietary ACB standard and are of different dimensions. The bearings are not cross compatible. Cane Creek Standard integrated headsets use a 35°x45° angular contact bearing (blue seal), Campagnolo a 45°x45° ACB (yellow seal), and TH a 36°x36° bearing (red seal).


----------



## Crawf

This is what came with my 015/028 frames delivered today...


----------



## asherstash1

mine went together quite snug barring a tiny gap at the top as alluded to in an earlier post, the poster solved it with a diff dust cover, the gap is hella small and at some point i think i will grab a cover like he had, the tiny washers did seem superfluous though.


----------



## IRMB

IRMB said:


> I just received my 61cm RFM201 from greatkeen
> https://www.greatkeenbike.com/main/home/cp_detail.php?id=96&nowmenuid=12&cpath=0009:&catid=0
> 
> For those looking for large frames - here's an option.
> 
> Fit and finish looks good. They messed up the paint on the fork (I asked for UD carbon, with clear coat only, NOT 3T):mad2:
> 
> The seat post looks good, with a highly sculpted clamp, good finish and very light. I haven't weighed anything yet, though.


 I finally got around to weighing these parts.

Frame - 1180 grams, or 2.66 pounds. Size 61
Fork - 379 grams with uncut steer tube
Seat post - 159 grams

I'm definitely happy with these numbers.

I will be building my wheels this week- Chris King classics on Mavic Open Pro's.
Shod receive the components next week - Sram Force kit.

Will post pics when done.


----------



## adam_mac84

Yup, it was me above... I also took it to the LBS mechanic that i use when needed, he didn't think there'd be any problem with the gap that i had (and posted photos of above.). I am going to just run the cane creek dust cover so i don't have to worry about dirt/dust


----------



## BlackDoggystyle

Crawf said:


> This is what came with my 015/028 frames delivered today...



This is 4 the FM028 frame...


----------



## BlackDoggystyle

The Headset is indeed 45/45 Campa size... 

It's time they make a standard size for the headset too...


----------



## aplitt86

Has anyone tried a Cane Creek 110 IS headset with the FM028? I plan on ordering this frame next week. I, like some of you, like some color on my bike and the 110 IS comes in different colors.


----------



## inthesticks

I was reading on these Ritte bikes and see some very similar resemblance to these Chinese frames, I think I even read somewhere they do indeed purchase them...anyway does anyone know which frame this one is?
http://www.ritteracing.com/store/rittecatalog/product/viewspecs/id/53

I see it has all internal cable routing heading down the down tube also, the 015 and 028 have cable routing running thru the top but this appears to also run down the down tube...now on the black/baby blue version of this bike I seen someone else post the cable runs down the outside like the 015 and 028.. anyone know where I can find this fram?
Thanks,
R


----------



## asherstash1

View attachment 215667

all i can be aarsed posting now, i will put close ups, 3k weave looks sick, glad i waited an extra 20 days for it, one more injection of cash and should be good to go... is it christmas yet?
frame - 1100g
fork (uncut) - 340g!
handle bar (rbh03) - 200g
seatpost (lol got mine badged as FSA K-Force) - 220g
thankyou ms.hu and greatkeen, the only unscheduled delay was uk customs!!!


----------



## MrPerkles

looking good ash :thumbsup: ,im going to get mine built as soon as my winter bikes up and running


----------



## Jetmugg

I know there has been some confusion about Greatkeenbike as a supplier, but it seems like many people have had positive experiences with Greatkeen lately. Is it still the case that there is a "good" greatkeen to deal with, as well as a "bad" greatkeen to deal with? (something about one company being legit, and the other using an email address which was very similar to the legit company?) 

Any guidance on this issue would be appreciated, as I'm on the verge of entering the Chinese carbon frame/fork/accessories market.

SteveM.


----------



## tehbry

Anybody building up TT frames with 78 degree seat angles? Would love to see what some of the options are for those type of bikes...


----------



## foofighter

ok, this caught my eye when i was reading up on the new Look 695 and thought it was a well laid out bike and. So i did a search to see what kind of pricing there are out there and then stumbled upon this http://www.alibaba.com/product-gs/358761712/2011_Look_695_frame.html 

As you can see they're not shy about hiding the fact that it's a LOOK 695 frame and how it comes w/ all the bits that come on the factory look. Is this for real? I thought Look had theirs made in france as well as Tunisia?


----------



## Local Hero

foofighter said:


> ok, this caught my eye when i was reading up on the new Look 695 and thought it was a well laid out bike and. So i did a search to see what kind of pricing there are out there and then stumbled upon this http://www.alibaba.com/product-gs/358761712/2011_Look_695_frame.html
> 
> As you can see they're not shy about hiding the fact that it's a LOOK 695 frame and how it comes w/ all the bits that come on the factory look. Is this for real? I thought Look had theirs made in france as well as Tunisia?


That company is also selling jetskis, cervelos and colnagos!


----------



## alexb618

foofighter said:


> ok, this caught my eye when i was reading up on the new Look 695 and thought it was a well laid out bike and. So i did a search to see what kind of pricing there are out there and then stumbled upon this http://www.alibaba.com/product-gs/358761712/2011_Look_695_frame.html
> 
> As you can see they're not shy about hiding the fact that it's a LOOK 695 frame and how it comes w/ all the bits that come on the factory look. Is this for real? I thought Look had theirs made in france as well as Tunisia?


it is real if you are expecting a box of bolts to be sent to you for $600-$1500USD


----------



## stubek

foofighter said:


> ok, this caught my eye when i was reading up on the new Look 695 and thought it was a well laid out bike and. So i did a search to see what kind of pricing there are out there and then stumbled upon this http://www.alibaba.com/product-gs/358761712/2011_Look_695_frame.html
> 
> As you can see they're not shy about hiding the fact that it's a LOOK 695 frame and how it comes w/ all the bits that come on the factory look. Is this for real? I thought Look had theirs made in france as well as Tunisia?



Lets see, the company named flower dream health products. It is a little stretch to say a bike is a health product, I would normally think of medicine, wheel chairs, things like that.

Also, read the description where it says model S-works stump jumper

Doubt it is real. It does not take much to get 1 year gold status on Alibaba since that is really 1 year and less. You only need a few positive sales.


I would steer very clear, but if you do take the chance, keep us posted.


----------



## foofighter

stubek: heck no, but like others pointed out i saw the errors on the description and figure input error etc. like they say if it's too good to be true...


----------



## ultraman6970

aplitt86 said:


> Has anyone tried a Cane Creek 110 IS headset with the FM028? I plan on ordering this frame next week. I, like some of you, like some color on my bike and the 110 IS comes in different colors.



I believe you dont know what are going to buy, all the 110 headsets have CUPS, they wont work in a integrated headset system. Sorry for being rude, not my intention 

Looks at the integrated headsets section in the cane creek web site, and figure it out if you need a cane creek standard or a campagnolo standar, or read what we think in previous pages. FSA sells headsets also just in case... good luck 

Edit: You know what? When cane creek came with 110 in IS? Just noticed today, So i was wrong  sorry....be sure you get the right bearings, dunno if the 110 comes in italian tho.


----------



## ultraman6970

foofighter said:


> stubek: heck no, but like others pointed out i saw the errors on the description and figure input error etc. like they say if it's too good to be true...



hehe, i saw the bmc impec full di2 like for 1500 bucks in one of these sites, one thing is to copy the stuff the other thing is to lie, the weird thing is that nobody has complained and alibaba still keep them in their listings, alibaba feedback is awfully bad.

One of these days i will add my own web page in there and see if i can sell some nissan leaf's or volts like for 10 grands shipping included


----------



## ultraman6970

asherstash1 said:


> View attachment 215667
> 
> all i can be aarsed posting now, i will put close ups, 3k weave looks sick, glad i waited an extra 20 days for it, one more injection of cash and should be good to go... is it christmas yet?
> frame - 1100g
> fork (uncut) - 340g!
> handle bar (rbh03) - 200g
> seatpost (lol got mine badged as FSA K-Force) - 220g
> thankyou ms.hu and greatkeen, the only unscheduled delay was uk customs!!!


Im going to end up buying one... damm it!


----------



## ultraman6970

inthesticks said:


> I was reading on these Ritte bikes and see some very similar resemblance to these Chinese frames, I think I even read somewhere they do indeed purchase them...anyway does anyone know which frame this one is?
> http://www.ritteracing.com/store/rittecatalog/product/viewspecs/id/53
> 
> I see it has all internal cable routing heading down the down tube also, the 015 and 028 have cable routing running thru the top but this appears to also run down the down tube...now on the black/baby blue version of this bike I seen someone else post the cable runs down the outside like the 015 and 028.. anyone know where I can find this fram?
> Thanks,
> R


We talked about this in previous pages, but the frames are a mix of some pedal force bikes, The down tube is larger i believe, besides that looks almost the same than a pedal force.


----------



## arson1

*That is a sick bike*

What manufacture and frame style is that. Did you order just the frame or the whole kit?


----------



## 1805078

*cervelo knockoffs*

I stumbled across this yesterday in my endless search to find the perfect carbon frame. I had discussions with them and they offer Escrow payment through Aliexpress. Sounds pretty good to me. Anyone bought one of these yet.


http://www.aliexpress.com/fm-store/...d-Racing-Bike-Frame-Carbon-Bicycle-Frame.html


----------



## WheresWaldo

1805078 said:


> I stumbled across this yesterday in my endless search to find the perfect carbon frame. I had discussions with them and they offer Escrow payment through Aliexpress. Sounds pretty good to me. Anyone bought one of these yet.
> 
> 
> http://www.aliexpress.com/fm-store/602090/210566231-342791515/56CM-Carbon-Road-Racing-Bike-Frame-Carbon-Bicycle-Frame.html


You do realize that is not a genuine Cervelo?
Why would you pay between 1000-1200 dollars for a generic carbon frame, when you can buy them at less than half that price, then apply the same paint scheme?


----------



## 1805078

WheresWaldo said:


> You do realize that is not a genuine Cervelo?
> Why would you pay between 1000-1200 dollars for a generic carbon frame, when you can buy them at less than half that price, then apply the same paint scheme?



Absolutley......They are replicas. On their website they show the raw carbon frame, then add the paint.

Can you tell me where you can buy them cheaper (half price). I would love to get one


----------



## snippy

BlackDoggystyle said:


> This is 4 the FM028 frame...


No, probably for both. Same one came with my FM015.


----------



## athletic91

Wow finally we have cervelo knockoffs


----------



## asherstash1

Jetmugg said:


> I know there has been some confusion about Greatkeenbike as a supplier, but it seems like many people have had positive experiences with Greatkeen lately. Is it still the case that there is a "good" greatkeen to deal with, as well as a "bad" greatkeen to deal with? (something about one company being legit, and the other using an email address which was very similar to the legit company?)
> 
> Any guidance on this issue would be appreciated, as I'm on the verge of entering the Chinese carbon frame/fork/accessories market.
> 
> SteveM.


i should have been more explicit, basically greatkeen is the brand name for dengfu sports equipment, where everyone gets their fm015 etc from...
greatkeenbike is a diff company, and the only one carrying the rfm 101 that me, perkles, horseface etc have. search greatkeen on google, first result is where we got ours, alibaba results are dengfu.
ours is the company the supposed negative press came from. the fork woth 3T on was one i think? and another v unfair one of a cracked chainstay i think, hardly manfacturers fault, as we all readily accept cheating import duty by declaring v low value on the packages so unsuprising the v light boxes dont get treated so good ALL THE WAY FROM CHINA, hardly round the corner. i think that the cracked frame was sorted eventually but sh&t sticks i suppose, my point is, i really wanted the 101 frame as the geo was spot on and it looks gorgeous, so i decided to take the internet slander with a pinch of salt lol. i would highly recommend you do the same if interested, they were prompt, polite, helpful and spot on with timings (was quoted 20 day lead for 3k fin). only delay was 3 days in uk customs lol. personally, i found ms hu and greatkeenbike.com excellent!
bloody hell long post but people are v quick to post neg comments and its probably a bit unbalanced if you are looking to pull trigger on these frames...


----------



## MrPerkles

asherstash1 said:


> i should have been more explicit, basically greatkeen is the brand name for dengfu sports equipment, where everyone gets their fm015 etc from...
> greatkeenbike is a diff company, and the only one carrying the rfm 101 that me, perkles, horseface etc have. search greatkeen on google, first result is where we got ours, alibaba results are dengfu.
> ours is the company the supposed negative press came from. the fork woth 3T on was one i think? and another v unfair one of a cracked chainstay i think, hardly manfacturers fault, as we all readily accept cheating import duty by declaring v low value on the packages so unsuprising the v light boxes dont get treated so good ALL THE WAY FROM CHINA, hardly round the corner. i think that the cracked frame was sorted eventually but sh&t sticks i suppose, my point is, i really wanted the 101 frame as the geo was spot on and it looks gorgeous, so i decided to take the internet slander with a pinch of salt lol. i would highly recommend you do the same if interested, they were prompt, polite, helpful and spot on with timings (was quoted 20 day lead for 3k fin). only delay was 3 days in uk customs lol. personally, i found ms hu and greatkeenbike.com excellent!
> bloody hell long post but people are v quick to post neg comments and its probably a bit unbalanced if you are looking to pull trigger on these frames...


+1 what he said :cornut:


----------



## ColoRoadie

My dengfu fm027 arrived 5 days after I paid for it. I would not hesitate to buy another from dengfu. My dealings were with Tony and Mina. The graphics are temporary while I figure out fit and decide on a paint scheme.


----------



## aplitt86

ultraman6970 said:


> I believe you dont know what are going to buy, all the 110 headsets have CUPS, they wont work in a integrated headset system. Sorry for being rude, not my intention
> 
> Looks at the integrated headsets section in the cane creek web site, and figure it out if you need a cane creek standard or a campagnolo standar, or read what we think in previous pages. FSA sells headsets also just in case... good luck
> 
> Edit: You know what? When cane creek came with 110 in IS? Just noticed today, So i was wrong  sorry....be sure you get the right bearings, dunno if the 110 comes in italian tho.


No problem, I was going to link you but saw your edit  You can buy the cane creek uppers and lowers separate to be sure to get the right fit for the tapered steerer/headtube. I thought I read it comes with an adapter for standard or italian. I think I'm going to give it a shot when I get my frame. I'll be sure to post pics when it's built!


----------



## ultraman6970

Good  thanks


----------



## WheresWaldo

*A few images of my unfinished FM-015 non-ISP*

In the process of painting it over the last week, still need to finish up with blue pinstripes along color edges as well as clear-coat overall.

This is a 55cm BB30 raw FM-015 painted in Chrysler Bright White and Dodge Viper Metallic Orange.


----------



## mymilkexpired

Looks nice! Love the red.


----------



## arson1

That bike is sick! What manufacture and frame is that? Did you just order the frame or did you buy the whole kit including components?


----------



## thefutureofamerica

Hey WWaldo, 

The paintjob looks sweet. You got your BB30 FM015 from Archtek, right? I was looking at your previous posts and you had some issues with getting them to deliver... how long did it take in the end? Jenny from HongFu has told me ~10 weeks to deliver a BB30 FM015, and I'm just wondering if you would suggest going with Archtek to speed up the process.


----------



## robpar

Ok... hate to ask but can you provide a detailed method process you used?
prep? spray equipment? paint spec? two part? masking materials? sanding materials?
are you putting a leveling coat?
I'd be grateful if you can provide the details...
thanks!


----------



## robpar

oooops.. double post; sorry


----------



## MrPerkles

looks great waldo ,you putting decals on it ?


----------



## WheresWaldo

arson1 said:


> That bike is sick! What manufacture and frame is that? Did you just order the frame or did you buy the whole kit including components?


Just bought frame, fork, handlebars, bottle cages nothing else. I have a complete Shimano Dura-Ace 7800 group on a Pedal Force that I am going to strip and use the parts to build this up.



thefutureofamerica said:


> The paintjob looks sweet. You got your BB30 FM015 from Archtek, right? I was looking at your previous posts and you had some issues with getting them to deliver... how long did it take in the end? Jenny from HongFu has told me ~10 weeks to deliver a BB30 FM015, and I'm just wondering if you would suggest going with Archtek to speed up the process.


Ordered on June 23 received October 26. That was longer than what was promised and the price was about the same as has been quoted by Jenny so I see no advantage buying from Archtek, other than the fact that I had ordered some 20mm carbon tubular rims from them also and I got those in a reasonable time frame. I eventually had to threaten Henry with an unfavorable mention on here and weightweenies before he responded to my emails asking for updates. I did not bombard him with emails either, just one email each month then a follow-up asking about receipt of the prior email.



robpar said:


> Ok... hate to ask but can you provide a detailed method process you used? prep? spray equipment? paint spec? two part? masking materials? sanding materials? are you putting a leveling coat? I'd be grateful if you can provide the details... thanks!


Ok, so let me preface this by saying that I am not a painter and did not want to go out and buy a bunch of equipment. I looked for the colors I wanted then found the color codes. Used SprayMax 2K paint, it is a 2 part urethane that has a small amount of hardener in the can, you pop the seal and you have 24 hours to use it before it hardens. Went to the local auto paint store and got the masking materials as well as 600, 1000, 1500 grit wet & dry sandpaper as well as adhesion promoter. I still have the clear coat to put on, but it is basically rattle can without the softness of rattle can finish. A lot of light misting coats and a heat gun to flash over the color coats and help level the paint. A little light wet sanding to remove any high spots and that was it. I also still need to stripe it, will be using 3M pinstripe tape for that.



MrPerkles said:


> looks great waldo ,you putting decals on it ?


No plans for any decals, but I thought that at some point if I want something on the down tube I would go to the local vinyl cutter and have something made up in a single color. Still undecided.


----------



## ultraman6970

That's an awesome paint job. Been practiving painting bikes for a while and I havent gotten that good yet hehe No kidding  Never expected the spraymax was so good, I have used preval spray bottle thing and is pretty good.

Good paint job dude  congrats


----------



## inthesticks

Wal, that orange is going to look sweet when cleared...I am going to paint mine Ford Dark Copper to match my King Ranch Truck, one of the main reason's I am going to build my own.

Make sure you get up some pictures of it when finished that will look great!

R


----------



## Local Hero

WW - 

Can you weigh it again after you apply the clearcoat? 

I've always been curious....


----------



## tehbry

To Waldo or anyone doing a custom paint job: Do you have a diagram/layout of the FM015 that others (I) could use to do a design of my own? I'm trying to find the best way to design my own custom paint job to either send to one of the Chinese companies or do in the states, locally.

Anyone?


----------



## MrPerkles

tehbry said:


> To Waldo or anyone doing a custom paint job: Do you have a diagram/layout of the FM015 that others (I) could use to do a design of my own? I'm trying to find the best way to design my own custom paint job to either send to one of the Chinese companies or do in the states, locally.
> 
> Anyone?


i can email you the cad dwg of my frame


----------



## WheresWaldo

The plan for this fm015 is to strip one of my two Pedal Force RS bikes. I have a full SRAM Red and full Dura-Ace 7800 bikes. I prefer the gearing of the Red, it is compact, but the shifting performance of DA is much better. I will take the DA off one of the PF's and built this bike. I have the BB30/BB24 adapters so I can reuse the DA crank, but I am thinking about getting a Cannondale SISL Compact crank. The rest of the group will remain intact. My other option is to just wait and see what BikesDirect does with a full 7900 or even better a Di2 group on a cheap aluminum frame and buy it for the parts (that is how I got the DA group in the first place). I already have 4 sets of carbon tubulars ranging from 20mm to 88mm so I am set for wheels. I also have that 190g carbon bar I bought with this frame as well as a spare Zipp SLC2 bars.

Probably won't ride it until the spring so I have time. Of course most of this depends on what I can sell off and whether or not I can find employment after being laid off this past summer. It was a good thing I ordered the frame, fork and bars before I was unemployed or else my wife would have killed me for buying another frame!


----------



## ultraman6970

You dont have to say that waldo... im in the same boat and for almost the same itme than you.


----------



## inthesticks

WheresWaldo said:


> Probably won't ride it until the spring so I have time. Of course most of this depends on what I can sell off and whether or not I can find employment after being laid off this past summer. It was a good thing I ordered the frame, fork and bars before I was unemployed or else my wife would have killed me for buying another frame!


What are you looking to get for your used stuff...I will be looking for comp real soon myself.

R


----------



## WheresWaldo

inthesticks said:


> What are you looking to get for your used stuff...I will be looking for comp real soon myself.
> 
> R


Right now I have a Pedal Force RS 55cm that I will let go cheap + shipping costs, it comes with a Alpha Q GS-10 fork. I will have this and other stuff on eBay soon.

Let's not hijack this thread and keep it focused on the Chinese frames and their build ups.

Last thing is I am looking for someone who can anodize some derailleur hangers, I am looking to do the blue to match the stripe. My wheel set uses blue DT Swiss nipples and has blue end caps on the bubs as well as blue skewers and cassette lockring.

I am thinking that those little blue accents will really set of the orange metallic and I have always likes orange/blue as a color combination. other than those small items, the saddle and bar tape will likely be white and cable will be black iLink brake and iLink Mini shift. I already have white Hudz on the 7800 brifters.


----------



## asherstash1

it looks crackin that burnt orangey colour. and similar to tehbry's Q do any of you artistes use any programs to help design or freehand it all? im finding paint quite limiting lol


----------



## WheresWaldo

asherstash1 said:


> it looks crackin that burnt orangey colour. and similar to tehbry's Q *do any of you artistes use any programs to help design or freehand it all?* im finding paint quite limiting lol


Just to address this point, I did use a pattern from an existing design, but since I am using paint and am not a very good painter I needed to simplify. So my nephew has a SuperSix HiMod and I just love the Liquigas paint scheme but not so much the green. I decided to try to duplicate it and when I realized that Cannondale uses decals for some of the color (particularly the blue at the top) I noticed that it was way too much masking for me and too many possibilities for error. On top of that I wanted to change all the green for orange. My single speed is General Lee orange powdercoat with all silver components and blue cable housing, bar tape and saddle and I think it looks pretty good, if I do say so myself (see attached photo)










I rethought my decision on color and went with a darker orange and changed the blue to orange instead, again simplifying as I went along freehand. Then needing to tie in the blue I went with the stripe, figuring that stripe with blue bits would be enough not to overwhelm the dark orange. Plus with the white/dark orange combination it wouldn't look like an Orbea paint job.

It is amazing what you can do with 1/4" 3M 233+ Masking tape, it does bend around corners and stick pretty well. Even so I am finding that simpler designs work better, unless you are an airbrush artiste.

Here is an attachment of the original design:
View attachment 215813


The fork has the same white area but the blue is gone to show carbon and the orange is replaced by a blue 1/4" wide stripe.


----------



## MrPerkles

heres my brothers chinese frame in ritte colours prior to clearcoating


----------



## mattoid

Hi Perkles
is that the same frame as your Gulf one? I've been looking at a similar one and have been wondering about the dealer, Sportscome / Cycling Custom Yong. I don't think I've seen the name in these pages, but it looks good and the geometry seems right.
Is this the same frame?


----------



## MrPerkles

my brothers is a winter mudgaurd frame but looks similar ,has the one you posted got square chainstays ?


----------



## ultraman6970

Perkles, it looks fantastic!!! Are you guys going to add decals or something?

What frame is that one??? I think we need to start a sticky with the frame pictures and models???

Cheers


----------



## mattoid

they seems to be square, yes;

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=330479259151&ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT

but I notice your Gulf frame has those hex-key links above the rear dropouts. what are they about?

Can you let on where yours and your bro's are from? ride qualities?
m


----------



## MrPerkles

mattoid said:


> they seems to be square, yes;
> 
> http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=330479259151&ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT
> 
> but I notice your Gulf frame has those hex-key links above the rear dropouts. what are they about?
> 
> Can you let on where yours and your bro's are from? ride qualities?
> m


the gulf frame is from the wilier oem the other is chinese ill ask my brother where from


----------



## timed

My fm028 with some nice bits such as AX lightness Morpheus crankarms.


----------



## MrPerkles

WheresWaldo said:


> Ok, so let me preface this by saying that I am not a painter and did not want to go out and buy a bunch of equipment. I looked for the colors I wanted then found the color codes. Used SprayMax 2K paint, it is a 2 part urethane that has a small amount of hardener in the can, you pop the seal and you have 24 hours to use it before it hardens. Went to the local auto paint store and got the masking materials as well as 600, 1000, 1500 grit wet & dry sandpaper as well as adhesion promoter. I still have the clear coat to put on, but it is basically rattle can without the softness of rattle can finish. A lot of light misting coats and a heat gun to flash over the color coats and help level the paint. A little light wet sanding to remove any high spots and that was it. I also still need to stripe it, will be using 3M pinstripe tape for that.


lovely job the clearcaot will make it sparkle and shine,you said you use adhesion promoter do you think it makes a difference ?


----------



## mattoid

oops.


----------



## cxl98904

whereswaldo and mr perkles the paint jobs on your frames looks fantastic! are you purchasing your frames w/ cleacoat and lightly sanding? what kind of paint are you using also?


----------



## kk5551

Perkles and Waldo - 

You guys have done such incredible paint work! What do you think about posting a step-by-step of your painting routine? I checked out Perkles' Facebook album and am so impressed!!

Alot of guys have had little or no painting experience, but would like to try their hand on their own build. I noticed that Perkles uses an epoxy sealer on the carbon etc..

A lot of tricks that others around the globe that frequent this forum could learn from. Would help consolidate many of the questions that you "skill" guys get as well.

Give it some thought.... and as always thanks for your contributions!



QUOTE=cxl98904]whereswaldo and mr perkles the paint jobs on your frames looks fantastic! are you purchasing your frames w/ cleacoat and lightly sanding? what kind of paint are you using also?[/QUOTE]


----------



## triathlete

timed said:


> My fm028 with some nice bits such as AX lightness Morpheus crankarms.


what wheels are thos? are they from dongfu too?


----------



## WheresWaldo

MrPerkles said:


> lovely job the clearcaot will make it sparkle and shine,you said you use adhesion promoter do you think it makes a difference ?


I used it on the frame but not the fork. I had some bubbling on the fork but removed the paint with acetone and started over. I really think it was something not cleaned off on the fork, not the fact that I didn't use adhesion promoter. So I am not sure what to think on that on. All I know is that if you are painting rubber bumpers or other flexible stuff the adhesion promoter seems to help it to stick a bit better. Can't say what the real benefit is long term since there is no long term at the moment.


----------



## WheresWaldo

cxl98904 said:


> whereswaldo and mr perkles the paint jobs on your frames looks fantastic! are you purchasing your frames w/ cleacoat and lightly sanding? what kind of paint are you using also?


I bought mine UD raw, I believe all they did was a rough sanding on the epoxy resin. There are some areas that are still shiny, like at the seat post collar and around the bottle cage mounts and around the rear dropouts. It made it tons easier since all I had to do was some light sanding first with 600 grit wet, then applied adhesion promoter, then color coat with some 1000 grit wet sanding after that to really smooth out the coat. Now the clear will go on after cleaning and it will get a light wet sanding with 1500 grit if needed. 24 hour later I can build it without worrying about chipping or scratching the paint. A month later I can put a good sealer wax coat with should last me all spring.


----------



## timed

triathlete said:


> what wheels are thos? are they from dongfu too?


no, they are not from dengfu, neither is the frame.


----------



## swaz

timed said:


> no, they are not from dengfu, neither is the frame.


umm, where are they from then?


----------



## Local Hero

Can someone message me when a FM015 style frame comes with full internal cable routing?


----------



## foofighter

MrPerkles said:


> heres my brothers chinese frame in ritte colours prior to clearcoating


you got a real knack for this...i dig Ritte's paint scheme


----------



## Tri4fun73

MrPerkles said:


> heres my brothers chinese frame in ritte colours prior to clearcoating


Simply [email protected]!!!!


----------



## foofighter

saw this twitted on roadID and this is a Trek...there's frame that looks very similar to this it's not the FM015 cant recall the model

http://twitpic.com/34k6cj


----------



## santacruzsl52

*FM015 Decal dimensions*



karlo said:


> Finally got my bike setup and decals came in yesterday and on the bike. Here are a few pictures but click on the link below to see more if you like.
> 
> KGDC-6 (FM015 from DengFu) - 16lbs as shown
> 
> To see more detailed larger pics click here: KGDC-6 Pictures



Hey i searched, but couldnt find. Can anyone help me on what size are the letters on the frame. Sizes for the downtube, seat tube, head tube, fork, and chain stays?

Any help is appreciated. 
Thanks


----------



## MrPerkles

kk5551 said:


> Perkles and Waldo -
> 
> You guys have done such incredible paint work! What do you think about posting a step-by-step of your painting routine? I checked out Perkles' Facebook album and am so impressed!!
> 
> Alot of guys have had little or no painting experience, but would like to try their hand on their own build. I noticed that Perkles uses an epoxy sealer on the carbon etc..
> 
> A lot of tricks that others around the globe that frequent this forum could learn from. Would help consolidate many of the questions that you "skill" guys get as well.
> 
> Give it some thought.... and as always thanks for your contributions!
> 
> 
> 
> QUOTE=cxl98904]whereswaldo and mr perkles the paint jobs on your frames looks fantastic! are you purchasing your frames w/ cleacoat and lightly sanding? what kind of paint are you using also?


[/QUOTE]
i will do a step by step with photos on my facebook page when i respray my Dads race frame.You can copy and paste it and use as you please.
Glad to be of some help :thumbsup:


----------



## kk5551

Much thanks Perkles! I look forward to it! 

i will do a step by step with photos on my facebook page when i respray my Dads race frame.You can copy and paste it and use as you please.
Glad to be of some help :thumbsup:[/QUOTE]


----------



## swaz

santacruzsl52 said:


> Hey i searched, but couldnt find. Can anyone help me on what size are the letters on the frame. Sizes for the downtube, seat tube, head tube, fork, and chain stays?
> 
> Any help is appreciated.
> Thanks


I would message Karlo. I had questions and messaged him and he is only too happy to answer. Really nice guy.


----------



## swaz

foofighter said:


> saw this twitted on roadID and this is a Trek...there's frame that looks very similar to this it's not the FM015 cant recall the model
> 
> http://twitpic.com/34k6cj


It's kinda like the FM028 but not quite.


----------



## asherstash1

View attachment 215978


View attachment 215979


View attachment 215980


View attachment 215981

heres why i waited a bit longer for mine, i really love the look of 3k CF and while the finish isnt flawless up close in places, the effect is gorgeous over all and really looks the dogs bollocks, eventually will get painted but CF will be part of that. well worth the wait imho! plus the seatpost randomly came as an FSA k-force added value or what


----------



## ultraman6970

asherstash1 i believe you have the wrong headset. What do the bearings say? 36x45?


----------



## asherstash1

adam_mac84 said:


> lobo, i got my bottom bearing pressed in, and the fork is seated properly on the bottom, but there is a small gap on the top of the head tube (the bearing that doesn't press in). With a cane creek dust cover, it seats properly (no gap). With the provided one, there is a small gap, did you get this same thing?
> 
> the provided cap
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> the fork race



View attachment 216018

i will have a gand in the mornin, but i believe it is correct, just same issue as above... it is tapered steerer so headset is specific, all sit flush in headtube. without the dodgy gap at bottom he has, just slight exposure at the top... major prob any1 reckon?


----------



## ultraman6970

The bottom looks fine for me the top it is weird, what do the bearing says?


----------



## asherstash1

View attachment 216019

meh, had a fiddle, dug around in box, found ikkle rubberr compression washer thing. i am bad retard...


----------



## asherstash1

ty btw...


----------



## ultraman6970

I forgive you my son!


----------



## tthome

where did you get your frame asher and cost, etc, etc? shoot me a PM if you want.


----------



## swaz

ultraman6970 said:


> The bottom looks fine for me the top it is weird, what do the bearing says?


I've asked mine many times bit still no answer


----------



## asherstash1

www.greatkeenbike.com

it was

View attachment 216030


quoted 10 day lead for 12k finish
15-20 for 3k.

email contact is ms.hu @ [email protected] v helpful


----------



## alexb618

swaz said:


> I've asked mine many times bit still no answer


the headset that came with my fm0015 is a 45/45 but the frame is off being painted so i cant tell you if it is correct yet


----------



## Spursrider

I think the price for unpainted frame+fork has gone up from USD350 about 2 months ago. For headset, handlebar and seatpost they're still the same


----------



## alexb618

probably bumped the prices up a bit because the US dollar is down so much


----------



## dcanna

to all those who have completed fm015 build, is the over consensus in regards to headset fitment, if you want the top beraing to sit properly you need to replace it with a fsa or cane creek campy 45 45 style? mine is at the lbs and he is a bit concerned about the neco headset i gave him.


----------



## Jetmugg

I'm at the very final stage before ordering an FM-022 cyclocross f&f plus accessories. For those of you who had Hongfu paint your frames, how did you select and specify the colors? This is the final step in my purchase. Did you specify a pantone #, or a description, or what???

Any advice from those who have purchased pre-painted frames would be appreciated.

SteveM.


----------



## ultraman6970

I believe they use RAL instead of pantone... If they ask you ral that is a chinese paint company use this link to figure the colors out

http://www.ralcolor.com/

cheers


----------



## Jetmugg

Excellent, thanks for the link to the RAL colors site. Now I need to consult with someone who has a good sense of design to help pick a couple of colors.

SteveM.


----------



## philischen

Okay... Finally got all the stuff together.

2x FM015, size 58, one ISP and one normal

Rest can be seen on pics. Pretty happy how both bikes came out!!!


----------



## kk5551

They both look great. I like the white bars and saddle on the the non-isp. Where did you get the wheels for the non-isp? Also, what crankset is on the non-isp. 

Great builds




philischen said:


> Okay... Finally got all the stuff together.
> 
> 2x FM015, size 58, one ISP and one normal
> 
> Rest can be seen on pics. Pretty happy how both bikes came out!!!


----------



## philischen

kk5551 said:


> They both look great. I like the white bars and saddle on the the non-isp. Where did you get the wheels for the non-isp? Also, what crankset is on the non-isp.
> 
> Great builds



Wheels on the non ISP are Lightweight. Take a look at www.lightweight.info

Crankset is a SRM professional Powermeter. Got the crankarms anodized in black.
More info on SRM www.srm.com


----------



## ms6073

philischen said:


>


Lightweights, SRM, and Di2 - niiice. There is just something really poetic about spending $500 on a frame that you can then build it up with $10,000+ in parts.  (<- note big smiley emoticon indicating I am trying to impart humor)


----------



## ms6073

asherstash1 said:


> View attachment 215979


Got to say this image would seem to indicate that neither the of the integrated headset bearings are fully seated in the cups in the frame - that or they simply are the wrong angle for the application (ie 36/36 versus 36/45 or 45/45). When I was assembling my FM018 Time Trial frameset from DengFu, the bearing cup in the top and bottom of the head tube was not perfectly smooth preventing the bearings from seating completely. Once I got after the issue and smoothed/polished out the cups with a Dremel, the bearing slid in with ease and there was no more gaps.


----------



## ClarkinHawaii

Jetmugg said:


> I'm at the very final stage before ordering an FM-022 cyclocross f&f plus accessories. For those of you who had Hongfu paint your frames, how did you select and specify the colors? This is the final step in my purchase. Did you specify a pantone #, or a description, or what???
> 
> Any advice from those who have purchased pre-painted frames would be appreciated.
> 
> SteveM.


When I was ready to order, they didn't have frame and fork both available in same weave, and rather than have a mismatch, I told them to paint the set red for $40US. So mine has no pattern, just solid color (it's a very nice candy-apple red, by the way, covered with clearcoat, and a good job).

To have it painted in a particular pattern, I would ask Jenny if she can provide samples (photos) of what they can do, then choose . . . That would be cheapest; and you'd know for sure how it would turn out. Only other option would be to send her photos of what you want and ask about prices . . . I believe there are international paint color charts that you can refer to to make sure you know what you're getting . . .


----------



## swaz

More progress pics


















Just awaiting an order from Wiggle to complete it. Oh and cut the steerer tube.


----------



## Jetmugg

ClarkinHawaii said:


> To have it painted in a particular pattern, I would ask Jenny if she can provide samples (photos) of what they can do, then choose . . . That would be cheapest; and you'd know for sure how it would turn out. Only other option would be to send her photos of what you want and ask about prices . . . I believe there are international paint color charts that you can refer to to make sure you know what you're getting . . .


Coby @ Hongfu sent me some design samples to choose from. I have picked one and a couple of colors from the RAL color charts. I was told 35 days lead time for the frame (presumably there are no FM-022's in stock). This is going to be a gift for my wife. I'm not holding my breath, but it would be a nice surprise if it's ready before Christmas.


----------



## asherstash1

ms6073 said:


> Got to say this image would seem to indicate that neither the of the integrated headset bearings are fully seated in the cups in the frame - that or they simply are the wrong angle for the application (ie 36/36 versus 36/45 or 45/45). When I was assembling my FM018 Time Trial frameset from DengFu, the bearing cup in the top and bottom of the head tube was not perfectly smooth preventing the bearings from seating completely. Once I got after the issue and smoothed/polished out the cups with a Dremel, the bearing slid in with ease and there was no more gaps.



problem is sorted, see later posts ta!


----------



## ultraman6970

It is the upper cup thing, it is flat and uses a seal. usually the seal if built in the cup, plus the cup has a lip that is like 2 mm so the bearing gets hidden under it. Interesting design anyways


----------



## Guymk

philischen said:


> Okay... Finally got all the stuff together.
> 
> 2x FM015, size 58, one ISP and one normal
> 
> Rest can be seen on pics. Pretty happy how both bikes came out!!!


Beautiful bikes. I definitely like the classic bend bar, looks very pro. How do you like the ride of the frame? Do you notice any difference between the isp and non-isp version?


----------



## adam_mac84

swaz said:


> More progress pics
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Just awaiting an order from Wiggle to complete it. Oh and cut the steerer tube.


Must be nice for you folks who don't have to order the largest frame sizes available and have some wiggle room in your stems lol :mad2:


----------



## CyKlo

*Trigger Pulled*

Well, after weeks of reading and contemplating. I just sent my $$$ off to Mina at DengFu for a non ISP - 58cm - FM015 - Fork - head set - matte black finish and bits. Any additional info from those with experience regarding their shipping would be greatly appreciated. Is it via EMS and will they deliver to local USPS if not at home at time of delivery? Any info is helpful. Thanks.


----------



## alexb618

swaz said:


> More progress pics


what size is this one? 53?


----------



## dcanna

i got mine from tony at deng fu, not too bad service, took his time to send it, also im having trouble with the headset he sent me,


----------



## ClarkinHawaii

CyKlo said:


> will they deliver to local USPS if not at home at time of delivery? Any info is helpful. Thanks.


Yes 

The message you have entered is too short. Please lengthen your message to at least 5 characters.

yes yes


----------



## zender

CyKlo said:


> Well, after weeks of reading and contemplating. I just sent my $$$ off to Mina at DengFu for a non ISP - 58cm - FM015 - Fork - head set - matte black finish and bits. Any additional info from those with experience regarding their shipping would be greatly appreciated. Is it via EMS and will they deliver to local USPS if not at home at time of delivery? Any info is helpful. Thanks.


EMS takes it as far as US customs. Once it clears, USPS takes it to our house. The first frame I ordered, I wasn't home for delivery and since it required a signature I had to pick it up at my local PO. The second delivery came on a Saturday so I was home to sign for it. I think it might be possible to leave a signed note in your mailbox for USPS to leave it at your door. However, don't quote me on that.


----------



## dcanna

alright went to lbs today to see the issue with my headset, i have the fm015 frame and the provided neco headset from deng fu. PROBLEM crown race does not sit flush with the steerer tube? why? did anyone else have this issue?


----------



## dcanna

here is pic to show what the hell is going on.......


----------



## pmorrissey

Mine came to Atlanta, Georgia, USA about 7 days after payment. I was out of town on business, and it was leaning against my door when I got home.


----------



## pmorrissey




----------



## Retro Grouch

*I had the same issue*



dcanna said:


> alright went to lbs today to see the issue with my headset, i have the fm015 frame and the provided neco headset from deng fu. PROBLEM crown race does not sit flush with the steerer tube? why? did anyone else have this issue?


Not with this fork, but with crown race ring for my Easton carbon.

I was able to get the ring around the base by using a 18 inch plastic hose extension from my shop vac. I slid the extension in place until it touched the ring. Then I grabbed the fork by each leg, turned it upside down gave it a firm hit on a piece of wood 2x4 I placed on the garage floor. The force was enough to open the ring and moved it until it was flush with the base of the fork crown. 

You might be able to find a length of PVC pipe to accomplish the same thing.


----------



## ultraman6970

dcanna the first thing to do is to get a caliper and measure the race area in the fork.

Secondly, w/o measuring the race or the fork there is no way to know if they sent you the wrong race, do you have a caliper?

Edit, grab a caliper, the crown race in the fork should be around 39.79 mm.. The race should be around the same size also.

The frame uses a tappered fork??? <-- yes it does (edit)

ps: if the lbs could not even tell you the problem i would advice you to NEVER go back there, it is a shame!

ps2: do not try to hit that race with a pvc tube yet w/o measuring because things could go pretty wrong with carbon.


----------



## pmorrissey

Dengfu FM015 with ancient Ultegra/Dura Ace Group. Placeholder until my SRAM Red group comes in.


----------



## dcanna

thanks ultraman, bike is at the lbs, he was gonna call a company i forget the name, to see if there was some type of tool to install tapered fork, said his never installed one, doesnt it co without saying that the race most be wrong size if it doesnt fit? i will call them up


----------



## Halfie

dcanna said:


> here is pic to show what the hell is going on.......


The exact same issue with mine. I took a length of PVC pipe, stood it on the ground, grabbed both ends of the fork and hammered down until it was in place. it took about 15 minutes of solid bashing, sweating and swearing, but it sits flush with the bottom of the fork now. 

I used chainlube oil to "help things along" as it were, but next time I build one of these, i'm going to lightly sand both the ring and the head tube, and THEN use some oil.


----------



## dcanna

dunno if i wanna be riding carbon fork that has been "bashed", sounds abit sus


----------



## FTR

dcanna said:


> dunno if i wanna be riding carbon fork that has been "bashed", sounds abit sus


I think you will feel a lot safer if you just hang your bike up on the wall.
Dont ride it, especially if it ever falls over out the front of your local coffee shop. Definitely dont ride it on rough roads or off a gutter.
It will only lead to certain death.

I sometimes wonder how some cyclists ever get up the guts to crawl out of bed in the morning.


----------



## alexb618

i'd just cut that lower race to be honest

on a cartridge bearing system the ball bearings dont actually run along it... just keeps everything lined up


----------



## dcanna

cutting sounds like a good idea, thanks alex.


----------



## karlo

dcanna said:


> here is pic to show what the hell is going on.......



Mine was exactly the same but just a little sanding got it to fit perfectly, just sand and test, sand and test so you won't take off too much. Took a couple of minutes to fix no problem.


----------



## alexb618

has anyone found a replacement seat mount thingo for the FM015 ISP frame? the one that came with my frame is super heavy... pretty sure someone was using a bontrager?


----------



## ColoRoadie

FTR said:


> I think you will feel a lot safer if you just hang your bike up on the wall.
> Dont ride it, especially if it ever falls over out the front of your local coffee shop. Definitely dont ride it on rough roads or off a gutter.
> It will only lead to certain death.
> 
> I sometimes wonder how some cyclists ever get up the guts to crawl out of bed in the morning.



I think I love you man. I couldn't have said it better myself. If the aforementioned action is too much for his delicate system to comprehend, it's best that someone else builds his bike and never tells him how it was done.


----------



## swaz

alexb618 said:


> what size is this one? 53?


Correct


----------



## swaz

ultraman6970 said:


> ps: if the lbs could not even tell you the problem i would advice you to NEVER go back there, it is a shame!


I have said the same thing. Said bike shop doesn't know how to install bearings either. I hope you aren't paying them for their advice. I am dumb struck that they don't know how to do this... imagine if someone wanted their hydraulic brake system bled. DO NOT CUT THE BEARING COLLAR.


----------



## Local Hero

pmorrissey said:


> Dengfu FM015 with ancient Ultegra/Dura Ace Group. Placeholder until my SRAM Red group comes in.


Nice. 

How's the ride?


----------



## ultraman6970

swaz said:


> I have said the same thing. Said bike shop doesn't know how to install bearings either. I hope you aren't paying them for their advice. I am dumb struck that they don't know how to do this... imagine if someone wanted their hydraulic brake system bled. DO NOT CUT THE BEARING COLLAR.


Agree with this too, do not cut the crown race. I would use the sand paper as somebody mentioned but not w/o having a caliper as a friend to verify. The job is pretty easy and yes it can be done using a pvc pipe, actually the tool to do this it does the same thing, hammer the crownrace using a weight.

I encorage everybody to get a darn caliper in mm and to learn metric system, almost everything is metric now a days in cycling.

Cheers...


----------



## ClarkinHawaii

dcanna said:


> dunno if i wanna be riding carbon fork that has been "bashed", sounds abit sus


Perhaps I misunderstand the properties of carbon, but I agree with you 100%. "Gorilla" works OK with metal, which deforms, but carbon just cracks. Much better to do a little sanding to ease the fit.


----------



## FTR

ClarkinHawaii said:


> Perhaps I misunderstand the properties of carbon, but I agree with you 100%. "Gorilla" works OK with metal, which deforms, but carbon just cracks. Much better to do a little sanding to ease the fit.







Really???


----------



## swaz

ClarkinHawaii said:


> Perhaps I misunderstand the properties of carbon, but I agree with you 100%. "Gorilla" works OK with metal, which deforms, but carbon just cracks. Much better to do a little sanding to ease the fit.


I think you do. Carbon, lay up dependent of course, loves vertical load and force. You jamming a crown race in there with PVC which is flexable as and absorbs most of the shock won't damage your forks if you apply common sense. You would actually apply the same amount of force using a proper crown race slammer. Just doesnt feel like it as it is metal. Gorilla is cutting the race to get it on there creating more issues than Playboy.


----------



## Local Hero

I stopped in at Five Rings Cycling Center today. 

I wanted to take a look at an FM015 up close and personal. They sell the frame for $650. They are selling this ultegra equipped FM015 for $3300: 










They also sell the Pinarello clones. I said, "This looks like a Pinarello" and the guy replied, "This is a Pinarello."

https://sfbay.craigslist.org/pen/bik/2049310581.html

In his ad he says: 

_CUSTOM MADE Frame/Fork set - /$1199/, 
Custom Build and Paint, just assembled and ready for a ride Triathlon or TT Road Bike, 
Frame made, and custom paint, on the factory, that produce a CERVELO P3, S, M and L size available. 
Very light for Triathlon bike, 15,11 lb !!! 
Bike size fitting open list starting August 16, morning, day, eve. 

NO SHIPPING, PICK IN STORE, ONLY !!! NO EXCEPTIONS !!! _


----------



## Halfie

dcanna said:


> dunno if i wanna be riding carbon fork that has been "bashed", sounds abit sus


I'll let you know whether the "might vs right" rule worked after I ride it a few hundred more k's... or perhaps i won't depending where it fails


----------



## stubek

LocalHero,
I tested their TT "cervelo" and it felt stiffer than a real P3 that I rode a couple days earlier... They do double the price of the frames from what they pay, but hey, that is pretty normal markup


----------



## swaz

Its more than A little worrying they are saying fake Pinos are real ones


----------



## swaz

always with the double posts


----------



## swaz

Need opinions on decals








Version 1









Version 2









Version 3









Version 4

The RALA are the initials of myself, the wife and our two kiddies. I am by no means any good at grapjic design so please let me knoe your thoughts! I have a vinyl sticker cutter so I can go with one for a while anc change to the other after a while.


----------



## asherstash1

as regards the tapered steerer thing fitment, whilst a caliper is a handy tool, based on what mine looked like, even by eye you could see it was clearly designed to fit and with a tiny bit of sanding to remove excess clearcoat it slid on with perfect interference fit. if it doesnt look right, its probably wrong...


----------



## Spursrider

swaz said:


> Need opinions on decals
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Version 1
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Version 2
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Version 3
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Version 4
> 
> The RALA are the initials of myself, the wife and our two kiddies. I am by no means any good at grapjic design so please let me knoe your thoughts! I have a vinyl sticker cutter so I can go with one for a while anc change to the other after a while.


Version 4 looks nice


----------



## ultraman6970

Version 1 around here.


----------



## Zootv

Got an email from gotobike this morning with new 2011 frames. They have an FM757 that has Di2 or normal cable routing option, FM307, FM308. Most seemed to be priced at $500 for frame and fork.

Anyone order from http://www.gotobike.com.cn before? I wonder when others will have their 2011 frames out?

Also I wonder with the recent crackdown on overseas shipments into the US if US customers will have a harder time with customs.


----------



## cdhbrad

Either 1 or 4, the others are too small to be noticed.


----------



## MrPerkles

no1 :thumbsup:


----------



## ultraman6970

FM757 looks sick hehehe, wonder how much is it


----------



## Jetmugg

I like version 1 the best. That being said, if you could get the font size a little bigger on version 1, it would stand out better (more like version 4).


----------



## aplitt86

Just sent my money to Tony at DengFu for my FM028-NON-ISP with BB30 size 54. They didn't have the BB30 frames in stock and will only take 1 week to get them. $560 total. $400 for frame/fork. $55 for custom paint. $85 for shipping. He threw in an extra der hanger at no charge. I'm guessing I will have it in about 3 weeks or so. Plan to build it up with Chorus 11 speed. I'll post progress pics when I get it!

edit: $20 paypal fee


----------



## stubek

Zootv said:


> Got an email from gotobike this morning with new 2011 frames. They have an FM757 that has Di2 or normal cable routing option, FM307, FM308. Most seemed to be priced at $500 for frame and fork.
> 
> Anyone order from http://www.gotobike.com.cn before? I wonder when others will have their 2011 frames out?
> 
> Also I wonder with the recent crackdown on overseas shipments into the US if US customers will have a harder time with customs.


 757 looks kinda like the Cervelo R3 with the square down tube
The new TT frame, WS01 is looks like a P3
But I don't see the 307 and 308 on their page


----------



## Jetmugg

I just sent the funds for my wife's soon-to-be FM-022 Cyclocross frame & fork. $530 for the f&f, and of course I ordered some extras (headset, seatpost, stem, ergo-handlebar, and CF bottle cages). I am also getting custom paint.

I'll post pics as they become available.

SteveM.


----------



## Local Hero

Zootv said:


> Got an email from gotobike this morning with new 2011 frames. They have an FM757 that has Di2 or normal cable routing option, FM307, FM308. Most seemed to be priced at $500 for frame and fork.
> 
> Anyone order from http://www.gotobike.com.cn before? I wonder when others will have their 2011 frames out?
> 
> Also I wonder with the recent crackdown on overseas shipments into the US if US customers will have a harder time with customs.


The 757 does look good. 

Any other pictures? 

Is if full internal cable routing? 

Is the steerer tapered?


----------



## snippy

dcanna said:


> here is pic to show what the hell is going on.......


I actually used a different method: 

Drill a ~1-1/4 hole in a piece of plywood 
(Plywood will need to be supported on either end. I used the top of a sawhorse)​Spacer: Find an old prescription bottle...etc...that was ~1-1/2 x 4" to 8" and cut the bottom off.
(pipe would have worked too - I used what I could find around the house)​Lightly sand the lip of the bearing race seating area on the fork
This is only to ease the abrupt transition so race would actually slide on instead of getting hung up. Do NOT sand too much. Do NOT cut the race. You do not want it loose.​Put race in place on fork.
You should be able, as a result of the sanding, to push race just barely onto place and have it stay​Hold fork up-side down by the legs, slide spacer - pipe, prescription bottle, etc - onto fork and hold against race.

*Anyone squeamish:* stop reading here and just take the fork to a good LBS  I'm sure they will do the bashing for you at a cost if you can't bash.

Place steerer through hole in plywood
Hit fork/race/spacer assembly against hole in plywood. Observe results. 
Hit it again. Observe results. Repeat until race is fully seated.

Hope that helps. To be honest, this was the part that I was most intimidated by after reading this thread and the trouble some had, but it really went easy once I figured out what it needed to fit; light sanding and force.


----------



## ClarkinHawaii

"Extra 15% off on Shimano groupsets and components--One week only!"

Just got email from Probikekit.com

I clicked on the email and didn't actually see anything on the site about this--maybe it hasn't started yet--I don't have time to research now--this is just a heads-up for you guys looking for comps.

Edit: here's a thread where they talk about it:
http://forums.roadbikereview.com/showthread.php?t=231597

I always check prices on chainreactioncycles, ribble, wiggle--just to make sure the good deal is really a good deal.


----------



## ClarkinHawaii

snippy said:


> I actually used a different method:
> 
> Drill a ~1-1/4 hole in a piece of plywood
> (Plywood will need to be supported on either end. I used the top of a sawhorse)​Spacer: Find an old prescription bottle...etc...that was ~1-1/2 x 4" to 8" and cut the bottom off.
> (pipe would have worked too - I used what I could find around the house)​Lightly sand the lip of the bearing race seating area on the fork
> This is only to ease the abrupt transition so race would actually slide on instead of getting hung up. Do NOT sand too much. Do NOT cut the race. You do not want it loose.​Put race in place on fork.
> You should be able, as a result of the sanding, to push race just barely onto place and have it stay​Hold fork up-side down by the legs, slide spacer - pipe, prescription bottle, etc - onto fork and hold against race.
> 
> *Anyone squeamish:* stop reading here and just take the fork to a good LBS  I'm sure they will do the bashing for you at a cost if you can't bash.
> 
> Place steerer through hole in plywood
> Hit fork/race/spacer assembly against hole in plywood. Observe results.
> Hit it again. Observe results. Repeat until race is fully seated.
> 
> Hope that helps. To be honest, this was the part that I was most intimidated by after reading this thread and the trouble some had, but it really went easy once I figured out what it needed to fit; light sanding and force.


This sounds perfect . . .


----------



## adam_mac84

Hey guys, in regard to the problems above with the headset having a bit of a gap on the top, i emailed Mina from Dengfu, while I am not sure if she understood everything i was telling her, but here is her response:



> Hello Adam
> How are you!!
> i am very sorry to reply your email now.due to i am out of the office these days.
> for the headset, we have check it again.the suppier offer us the wrong ring(the red one) this time.
> it has a little higher than right one.
> so if you don't like it ,you can change it,you can find it bike shop in you local place,and we can pay the cost for the ring.
> i am very sorry for it .


I did not know that there were simply different size lockrings... i will have to look in to it. I probably won't even bother, because it works the way it is, I will just have to make sure i don't get too much dust/dirt in there (it shouldn't because it's going to be my nice weather bike). I will replace it when it needs it


----------



## snippy

adam_mac84 said:


> Hey guys, in regard to the problems above with the headset having a bit of a gap on the top...


That was the problem with my top bearing and red ring resulting in ~2mm gap.

I have an orbital sander with 120 grit sandpaper. I wrapped the bearing with plastic wrap to protect the bearing and pushed the red race into it. Held it by hand against the sander, pulsed the sander on and off so as not to get too crazy with it  and repeated until it sat correctly. Got good results. If you have a sander or similar, might be a solution.

Hindsight: I would now use black rtv sealant or caulking to make up the difference...


----------



## ultraman6970

In my opinion It is cheaper just go and buy a descent headset.


----------



## swaz

ClarkinHawaii said:


> "Extra 15% off on Shimano groupsets and components--One week only!"
> 
> Just got email from Probikekit.com
> 
> I clicked on the email and didn't actually see anything on the site about this--maybe it hasn't started yet--I don't have time to research now--this is just a heads-up for you guys looking for comps.
> 
> Edit: here's a thread where they talk about it:
> http://forums.roadbikereview.com/showthread.php?t=231597
> 
> I always check prices on chainreactioncycles, ribble, wiggle--just to make sure the good deal is really a good deal.


Just got the same email. No discount applies yet. Still wont be as good as Wiggle's $750 6700 groupo which I can't find on there anymore


----------



## zender

Local Hero said:


> The 757 does look good.
> 
> Any other pictures?
> 
> Is if full internal cable routing?
> 
> Is the steerer tapered?


It says Di2 frame. I do detect a brake cable stop at the back of the toptube. That'd be it if this was a dedicated Di2 frame.


----------



## Local Hero

zender said:


> It says Di2 frame. I do detect a brake cable stop at the back of the toptube. That'd be it if this was a dedicated Di2 frame.


Right, there appears to be a cable stop or port towards the rear of the top tube 

It also looks like there's a small cable between the top tube and down tube: 










Is that something sticking out of the bottom half of the headtube? 


(I just emailed them for a geometry chart and asked about the routing.)


----------



## ultraman6970

That's a tube strip thing cable that helps you to pass the brake cable inside of the TT. Some expensive frames comes with that from factory. Once u have the cable in position you pull it back, u need the cable replaced, you put it back on... pull the cable back off the tube... put the new cable in... then pull the plastic tubing back off... done.


----------



## Rob81

I'm wondering if it'snot out yet a Chinese frame with BB86 (aka BB90 http://www.parktool.com/blog/repair-help/bb90-bb86-bb92-etc-bottom-bracket-service) 
anyone know about this?
Thanks


----------



## Local Hero

ultraman6970 said:


> That's a tube strip thing cable that helps you to pass the brake cable inside of the TT. Some expensive frames comes with that from factory. Once u have the cable in position you pull it back, u need the cable replaced, you put it back on... pull the cable back off the tube... put the new cable in... then pull the plastic tubing back off... done.


Yes.

Do you think that's one on the downtube as well?


----------



## ultraman6970

Cant tell from the pictures.. OR, the plastic thing is for the downtube and the top tube is regular, Or the tt and dt are together and need to be cut, cant tell from the pictures, I sent an email to these people asking for the frame and extra pictures but no answer yet. The funny thing is that I want make myself a carbon bike and the DT and ST is just like i was thinking, thats the reason i'm interested in the frame, hope it is not a fake hehehe


----------



## bwatson87

*Headset*



ultraman6970 said:


> In my opinion It is cheaper just go and buy a descent headset.


Can anyone confirm a particular headset that I could by on chainreaction or wiggle and works "plug-and-play" for installing on a deng-fu FM015?

Many thanks

Ben


----------



## snippy

ultraman6970 said:


> In my opinion It is cheaper just go and buy a descent headset.


Where's the fun in that??? 

The neco headset's only $15 and it's well worth that IMO. Anything else would probably cost at least 3X that much and you don't have to source it elsewhere when buying components.


----------



## ultraman6970

True, Well big difference in the design for the top cup between 15 bucks and 40 bucks anyways.

Watson i believe those frames are campagnolo compatible, LOOK IN PREVIOUS POSTINGS OK??. The bearings in campagnolo are 45 x 45 degrees. but the fm015 is tapered so you have 1.5 at the bottom and 1 1/8 campagnolo i believe in the top. 

Hope this helps.


----------



## ultraman6970

Ok here we go... got some extra pictures and the geometry if anybody wants to take a look to it, don't know why the pictures show like squared tubing, but it is not...

Frame pictures are too big, but here i added 3 detailed geometries. Just in case this frame goes up to a 60 effective TT, thats a good news to many people, right?

1st it is a medium/large....second one it is a medium and the last one is a large.


----------



## Local Hero

ultraman6970 said:


> Ok here we go... got some extra pictures and the geometry if anybody wants to take a look to it, don't know why the pictures show like squared tubing, but it is not...
> 
> Frame pictures are too big, but here i added 3 detailed geometries. Just in case this frame goes up to a 60 effective TT, thats a good news to many people, right?
> 
> 1st it is a medium/large....second one it is a medium and the last one is a large.


Yes, she sent me those as well. Cherry. We've exchanged a number of emails. 

*How much?*
FM757-Price:USD500/frame+fork for sample, 
12K:USD440/frame+fork when quantity more than 10 sets,
3K:USD470/frame+fork when quantity more than 10 sets.

*What about Matte Black? 3K or 12K?*
But our next stocking is 12K finish,and it needs USD40/ set for carbon black in matt.

*How much for a headset?*
Sorry that we dont supply headset for FM757,i attached the geometry and you can buy headset from other suppliers.

*How much will the Medium weigh?*
Since we dont have stock now, i dont know the weight exactly,
but frame is about 1000g.Fork:350g-380g
Shipping fee will cost USD81 for one set by EMS

*When can you ship?*
Our next stocking will be ready in 50-60 days.Can you wait that long?


----------



## Zootv

Here is a another pic of the FM757
View attachment 216175


Here is the FM307. 3K, BB30: 460/490/520/560/580mm : $380USD Frame $500 Frame/fork No other info, not available yet.
View attachment 216176


Here is the FM308. 3K 430/465/500/535/555/585mm: $380USD Frame $500 Frame/fork No other info, not available yet.
View attachment 216177


Here is the FM309: 3K 500/520/540/560/580mm $380USD Frame $500 Frame/fork. No other info, not available yet.
View attachment 216178


----------



## crewman

*Fm757*

ultraman6970:
After looking at the geometry I see that this fame has a large BB_drop than most at 72mm(M/L). This sizing works well for me. I was looking to get a FM028 from Tony but this bike has better "reach and stack" numbers.

I am also looking to get one Matte black if possible. Who did you contact for info?.


----------



## tehbry

*Fm757*

FM757 has massive headtubes for the respective toptube lengths. This is going to be a bike skewed with a high stack and a short reach. 

Does anyone have geometries for the 307, 308, 309?


----------



## Zootv

I wasn't provided any geo's on the 307,308 or 309 as they haven't come into sale and she only provided the geo's on the 757. I really like the look of the 757 myself, and the 60 day lead time might work depending on payment terms. 

Also the spreadsheet i got has a lot more wheels/parts than listed on website, can you upload xls here?


----------



## inthesticks

That fork on the 757 just doesnt look right. 
I really like the gem of the 28, but I like the cable routing of the 757, that is exactly what i wanted but how in real life is the difference in gem would be for the M 54cm size frame, it looks like a bit more reach.. how much difference is the head tube height between the two?


----------



## crewman

*Geometries*

Using the drawings for the frames you cam calculate the reach and stack differences on this web site. I went one step further and made my own spread sheet and entered the bike I currently use and compare it to all the China frame sizes.

cheapcarbonframes.com


----------



## bikensteve901

bwatson87 said:


> Can anyone confirm a particular headset that I could by on chainreaction or wiggle and works "plug-and-play" for installing on a deng-fu FM015?
> 
> Many thanks
> 
> Ben



FSA CF -40 works on the FM015.


----------



## inthesticks

Thanks, Crew, I see the numbers, but for us/myself that have not or cannot try a zillions bikes do you think I would be able to really notice the difference between the two bikes? I consider myself a novice when it comes to biking, grew up riding a mtb..than a short stint on a road bike 2 years, but I am certain it wasn't correct size, than back into a 18" MTB for the past 10 years. 
I like to ride a more upright bike (mainly due to riding mtb my whole life and getting older), I know I need a 54cm frame as I am 5' 9.5" tall, 31" inseam...


----------



## ultraman6970

crewman said:


> ultraman6970:
> After looking at the geometry I see that this fame has a large BB_drop than most at 72mm(M/L). This sizing works well for me. I was looking to get a FM028 from Tony but this bike has better "reach and stack" numbers.
> 
> I am also looking to get one Matte black if possible. Who did you contact for info?.



Here... [email protected]

But from what somebody posted the frame wont be available for a while.


----------



## inthesticks

Nice double post.....what the heck?


----------



## ultraman6970

tehbry said:


> FM757 has massive headtubes for the respective toptube lengths. This is going to be a bike skewed with a high stack and a short reach.
> 
> Does anyone have geometries for the 307, 308, 309?



I agree with this, I was looking at it and the bike might look like a specialized with super high head tube, Liked the tubing design, but not my type of bike.


----------



## zender

Are you guys really thinking Di2 to build the 757 frame or are you thinking single speed?


----------



## Zootv

I'm not, but the geo is extremely close to a cevelo RS with the exception only to the BB dropout and tube sizing. A shorter reach frame will suite me better. I might wait a bit to see what the 307,308,309 geos are before pulling the trigger.


----------



## gospastic

crewman said:


> Using the drawings for the frames you cam calculate the reach and stack differences on this web site. I went one step further and made my own spread sheet and entered the bike I currently use and compare it to all the China frame sizes.
> 
> cheapcarbonframes.com


i just checked this calculator...i think it's off. it's not giving me the correct outputs.


----------



## alexb618

tehbry said:


> FM757 has massive headtubes for the respective toptube lengths. This is going to be a bike skewed with a high stack and a short reach.


this is what people who are not racing actually need though, which is most people on this forum for example


----------



## thefutureofamerica

alexb618 said:


> this is what people who are not racing actually need though, which is most people on this forum for example


But by no means all of us... ZooTV, (if he's the same ZooTV from our local cycling forums, if not, then my mistake) is well known for his heroic efforts off the front of pretty much every race... but that doesn't mean he wants a short head tube if it doesn't fit his proportions.


----------



## Zootv

No i don't think thats me. I haven't raced in years, but I am trying to get back into it. But at age 40 I need something more relaxed. 

You should see the bike i'm on now, 1991 klien quantum with the original scott areo handbars , ie 1992/93. My old body cant handle that aggressive of a position anymore. I am surprised that I can still keep up with the A group with my 7 speed downtube shifters! While I can't do it often, its fun winning a sprint uphill on that bike with some bikes 5 lbs lighter and lever shifters. I have to really think about shifting and gears, kind of a lost art with a modern bike.


----------



## alexb618

thefutureofamerica said:


> But by no means all of us... ZooTV, (if he's the same ZooTV from our local cycling forums, if not, then my mistake) is well known for his heroic efforts off the front of pretty much every race... but that doesn't mean he wants a short head tube if it doesn't fit his proportions.


i think we are on the same wavelength. people who actually understand geometry, which is not a difficult concept really, might want a tall headtube too (my preferred geo is a 54.5TT and 140mm HT for example) 

but when i look at all the bikes posted on this forum, they mostly have a huge stack of spacers under the stem to get the fit that they want/need

i am convinced taller HT frames will make a comeback in the not too distant future


----------



## zender

zender said:


> Are you guys really thinking Di2 to build the 757 frame or are you thinking single speed?


I should clarify my question, since I think I was unclear. The frame pictured has no other cable routing except for a rear brake cable because it is designed for electronic shifting - no shifter cables. Assuming they don't offer a version with cable stops, cable guide under BB etc, are you planning on building it with Di2?


----------



## Zootv

zender said:


> I should clarify my question, since I think I was unclear. The frame pictured has no other cable routing except for a rear brake cable because it is designed for electronic shifting - no shifter cables. Assuming they don't offer a version with cable stops, cable guide under BB etc, are you planning on building it with Di2?


Yes, you can get the frame either standard cabling or Di2 cabling. I believe all the photos sent to everyone have been the Di2 cabling. This might be the first specific Di2 frame from a china off brand manufacturer , so they are definitely closing the gap on major brands.


----------



## ultraman6970

Zootv said:


> No i don't think thats me. I haven't raced in years, but I am trying to get back into it. But at age 40 I need something more relaxed.
> 
> You should see the bike i'm on now, 1991 klien quantum with the original scott areo handbars , ie 1992/93. My old body cant handle that aggressive of a position anymore. I am surprised that I can still keep up with the A group with my 7 speed downtube shifters! While I can't do it often, its fun winning a sprint uphill on that bike with some bikes 5 lbs lighter and lever shifters. I have to really think about shifting and gears, kind of a lost art with a modern bike.


Old racer in here too, hard to come back but if you are still pulling the strings with the A group it means that they suck big time hehehe. I'm sure you go riding in the pack using no more than 3 cogs from the 7 u have, while some suckers go up and down like crazy monkey playing with the gears, right? 

To win races u dont need more than 7 or 8 speeds, You barely use them all anyways  You really need a new bike hehehe


----------



## MrPerkles

ultraman6970 said:


> Old racer in here too, hard to come back but if you are still pulling the strings with the A group it means that they suck big time hehehe. I'm sure you go riding in the pack using no more than 3 cogs from the 7 u have, while some suckers go up and down like crazy monkey playing with the gears, right?
> 
> To win races u dont need more than 7 or 8 speeds, You barely use them all anyways  You really need a new bike hehehe


us old farts with our race craft only need two gears ,53 x 17 and 53 x 11 for the last 100 meters bring it on.  
Be good to see some race photos in the spring on these cheap chinese rigs


----------



## Renderdog

Looking at the drawings for the 56cm FM028 and FM757 their geometries appear very similar, not what I expected from the comments here. I laid them on top of each other in Photoshop and there are only minor differences.


----------



## athletic91

anyone manage to get hold of a cervelo aero frame copy?


----------



## crewman

*Sizing*

Here are the numbers.
Dengfu FM028 (non ISP)	56	71.5	368	170	73.5 560 73.3
GOTORIDE	FM757 M	72	370	165	72.5 544 73.5
GOTORIDE	FM757 M/L	72	370	180	72.5 564.7 73.0

There is a large difference in the frames.

If we compare stack and reach measurements (Stack / Reach)

Dengfu FM028 (non ISP)	56	587.3 / 383.3 
GOTORIDE	FM757 M	582.2 / 371.5
GOTORIDE	FM757 M/L 596.5 / 382.3

But you also have to take into consideration "Setback" and the M/L FM757 is very close to my LOOK 585. with a difference of 2 mm. Setback calculated by subtracting EFF TT by reach.


Compare that to my LOOK 585 Optimum Stack of 603.1 and a reach 376.6. I would either use the FM757 with 20mm of spacers and a 110cm stem. Or get the FM757 and use 10mm of spacers with a 100cm stem 




Renderdog said:


> Looking at the drawings for the 56cm FM028 and FM757 their geometries appear very similar, not what I expected from the comments here. I laid them on top of each other in Photoshop and there are only minor differences.


----------



## ultraman6970

MrPerkles said:


> us old farts with our race craft only need two gears ,53 x 17 and 53 x 11 for the last 100 meters bring it on.
> Be good to see some race photos in the spring on these cheap chinese rigs



Sometimes you do not even need the 11, if the conditions are right you can win a sprint with 53x16, like for example up hill 

I dont know if this situation is common in the UK but here for example if the road gets a little bit harder some people change gears, then if the slope change they change it again, so if you have a relatively flat terrain with slight up and downs some guys go up and down the gears like crazy, even with simple overpasses.

Old farts learn racing pacing using fix gears and using cages with no straps, old fart method that do not fail, ask that to Reg Harris for example  (geeky cycling moment of the day)


----------



## MrPerkles

changing dwon onto the little ring is for wimps ,or fat overweight has beens who like flat courses.
look forward to seeing some racing pics from this thread :thumbsup:


----------



## aplitt86

aplitt86 said:


> Just sent my money to Tony at DengFu for my FM028-NON-ISP with BB30 size 54. They didn't have the BB30 frames in stock and will only take 1 week to get them. $560 total. $400 for frame/fork. $55 for custom paint. $85 for shipping. He threw in an extra der hanger at no charge. I'm guessing I will have it in about 3 weeks or so. Plan to build it up with Chorus 11 speed. I'll post progress pics when I get it!
> 
> edit: $20 paypal fee


Update: I just received the paint from DengFu. Should have the frame in the next 2 weeks!


----------



## RiceKilla

I'd be really interested to see how that looks in person and when finished.


----------



## RiceKilla

I'd be really interested to see how that looks in person and when finished.

What was the process like coming up and giving them the design?


----------



## aplitt86

RiceKilla said:


> I'd be really interested to see how that looks in person and when finished.
> 
> What was the process like coming up and giving them the design?


I can hardly wait! I stole the paint scheme from the Ritte Bosberg. Some others in this thread used their Team color scheme, but when I saw this scheme, I fell in love. Theirs has light blue instead of the purple, but I simply sent DengFu a picture of the Bosberg and said no decals and told them to replace the blue with purple (used the RAL color chart as suggested). They sent me that to make sure it was correct. Piece of cake.


----------



## Renderdog

crewman said:


> Here are the numbers.
> Dengfu FM028 (non ISP)	56	71.5	368	170	73.5 560 73.3
> GOTORIDE	FM757 M/L	72	370	180	72.5 564.7 73.0
> 
> There is a large difference in the frames.
> 
> If we compare stack and reach measurements (Stack / Reach)
> 
> Dengfu FM028 (non ISP)	56	587.3 / 383.3
> GOTORIDE	FM757 M/L 596.5 / 382.3


Even simply looking at the raw numbers I don't see a "large" difference. The largest difference for any one measurement between the 56 FM028 and M/L FM757 is 1cm. When you compare the geometries overall the numbers combine to reduce the difference so they look even more alike than the individual numbers would indicate.


----------



## RiceKilla

aplitt86 said:


> I can hardly wait! I stole the paint scheme from the Ritte Bosberg. Some others in this thread used their Team color scheme, but when I saw this scheme, I fell in love. Theirs has light blue instead of the purple, but I simply sent DengFu a picture of the Bosberg and said no decals and told them to replace the blue with purple (used the RAL color chart as suggested). They sent me that to make sure it was correct. Piece of cake.



Ahh I thought you used Franco bikes as a template, they have that scheme going on. 

I'll be borrowing either Franco's scheme or Ritte's if I get one of these frames.


----------



## alexb618

what are these paint jobs costing?


----------



## WheresWaldo

Renderdog said:


> Even simply looking at the raw numbers I don't see a "large" difference. The largest difference for any one measurement between the 56 FM028 and M/L FM757 is 1cm. When you compare the geometries overall the numbers combine to reduce the difference so they look even more alike than the individual numbers would indicate.


This is why you look at STACK and REACH. It makes comparing easier as it is only two numbers and the FM757 has 10mm more stack height than the FM028, so all things equal you would be 1 cm more upright.


----------



## FTR

WheresWaldo said:


> This is why you look at STACK and REACH. It makes comparing easier as it is only two numbers and the FM757 has 10mm more stack height than the FM028, so all things equal you would be 1 cm more upright.


Or you can use 10mm less spacers. :thumbsup:


----------



## mobilesleepy

When I first stumbled on this thread, I thought it was all shilling. Then I scoped the Ritte Bosberg, and now I'm curious. How do these "generic" bikes ride? Are they tough frames? 
I've been checking to hongfu and alibaba sites, and I saw this: http://carbon-products.en.alibaba.com/product/308346991-200176927/carbon_frame.html?tracelog=cgsotherproduct1
Anybody have experience with that frame, or Sanming Wish Trade/WinSpace? I'm really digging the look of the frame, I'm wondering if it's any good or some scam.

On the same note, how are these sites different from buying those frames off of ebay?


----------



## mobilesleepy

edit* double posting.


----------



## swaz

mobilesleepy said:


> When I first stumbled on this thread, I thought it was all shilling. Then I scoped the Ritte Bosberg, and now I'm curious. How do these "generic" bikes ride? Are they tough frames?
> I've been checking to hongfu and alibaba sites, and I saw this: http://carbon-products.en.alibaba.com/product/308346991-200176927/carbon_frame.html?tracelog=cgsotherproduct1
> Anybody have experience with that frame, or Sanming Wish Trade/WinSpace? I'm really digging the look of the frame, I'm wondering if it's any good or some scam.
> 
> On the same note, how are these sites different from buying those frames off of ebay?


There is a wealth of info in this and the 2.0 thread. Mine is STILL awaiting parts (Wiggle) so can't comment on the ride yet.


----------



## prendrefeu

So, does anyone have the data/measurements for smaller frame sizes on the FM757? 
Will it only be available in "America F*CK YEAH!" type sizing (ie, M, L, XL, XXL, XXXL) or will they eventually size it with actual numbers?


----------



## MrPerkles

mobilesleepy said:


> When I first stumbled on this thread, I thought it was all shilling. Then I scoped the Ritte Bosberg, and now I'm curious. How do these "generic" bikes ride? Are they tough frames?
> I've been checking to hongfu and alibaba sites, and I saw this: http://carbon-products.en.alibaba.com/product/308346991-200176927/carbon_frame.html?tracelog=cgsotherproduct1
> Anybody have experience with that frame, or Sanming Wish Trade/WinSpace? I'm really digging the look of the frame, I'm wondering if it's any good or some scam.
> 
> On the same note, how are these sites different from buying those frames off of ebay?


they ride the same as one with a $3000 paint job because they come from the same factorys  
Ive used mine all year and it still looks new if i wash it


----------



## nedworthy

*Just more of the same...*

For anyone still undecided about these frames, here's some photos of a delivery yesterday to show consistency of packing etc in relation to other threads. Frame is FM028 bought from DengFu in matt black. Also got seatpost and headset. Went via Alibaba, exchanged emails with Mina, got invoice paid by PP, arrive 12 days later. Frame looks excellent, all nicely finished and there is evidence of internal shaving of the excess fibres on headtube/BB.
To coin a phrase ' Just Do it'.


----------



## crewman

Love the Matt Black colour....

Did you get a seat post collar?. 



nedworthy said:


> For anyone still undecided about these frames, here's some photos of a delivery yesterday to show consistency of packing etc in relation to other threads. Frame is FM028 bought from DengFu in matt black. Also got seatpost and headset. Went via Alibaba, exchanged emails with Mina, got invoice paid by PP, arrive 12 days later. Frame looks excellent, all nicely finished and there is evidence of internal shaving of the excess fibres on headtube/BB.
> To coin a phrase ' Just Do it'.


----------



## satanas

Ultraman, thanks for posting the FM757 geometry drawings! The first one (M/L) looks like as close to what I'd like as I'm going to get. They seem quite similar to the Lemond CF frames apart from a slacker head angle and more fork rake, and thus a longer front centre. The BB is a bit lower too - good.

Re stack/reach measurements: they only tell part of the story, i.e., what it will take to get the bars in a particular place. Useless for seat position, handling, etc. So, while they might be useful to know, one still needs *all* the measurements to have a good idea what's going on - as well as to have ridden enough bikes (and paid attention) so as to know what means what.


----------



## crewman

satanas said:


> Re stack/reach measurements: they only tell part of the story, i.e., what it will take to get the bars in a particular place. Useless for seat position, handling, etc. So, while they might be useful to know, one still needs *all* the measurements to have a good idea what's going on - as well as to have ridden enough bikes (and paid attention) so as to know what means what.


For seat position this is easy. Just compare the STA of the bike you currently ride. If they match then there is no problem. For me the bike I ride now and the FM757 are both the same at 73 degrees. The FM028 is .3 degrees more, hence the 1.3mm reach difference. 

The formula for calculating the exact difference is: saddle height x (cosA-cosB), where A and B are the two seat tube angles.


----------



## ultraman6970

prendrefeu said:


> So, does anyone have the data/measurements for smaller frame sizes on the FM757?
> Will it only be available in "America F*CK YEAH!" type sizing (ie, M, L, XL, XXL, XXXL) or will they eventually size it with actual numbers?


The frame comes in . XSMALL,SMALL, MEDIUM, MEDIUM/LARGE,LARGE AND XLARGE that is sort of what giant used to have back in the day, as a reference xlarge is like a size 60, and xsmall is around a 50

Since the headtube looks like tall and the sloping looks like well "highlighted" the bike looks to me like a specialized allez 2007 look a like... lower BB means that the bike is more stable but the wheelbase looks like pretty long so it should not handle that quick, what i believe is that the frame should ride and handle smoothly. Touring, old fart not ex-racer type of dude oriented frame if you ask me.

But this is just a guess based in the geometry, so who knows until somebody gets one and review it.


----------



## ultraman6970

No problem lord of darkness.... enjoy


----------



## satanas

^ I might try to get a frame and review it. I don't see the tallish head tube as a problem unless one wants a time trial position - one can always use a 73 degree stem to get the bars in the normal place.

Crewman: Thank you, I do understand how to calculate seat position, etc. My point was that this is not addressed - and indeed nothing except top-of-head-tube-relative-to-centre-of-bottom-bracket is - by stack/reach, but quite a few have posted here saying that there are "no significant differences" in geometry if these are within say 10mm between two frames. Sorry guys, but other things affect fit and handling too, the point I was trying to make.

The problem as I see it is that those touting stack/reach, usually with evangelical fervour, mostly neglect the fact that these two measurements do not tell the whole story, the premise seeming to be that if they are similar to what one is happy with, then no further thought is required. IME, simplistic analyses => poor results. I suppose though that most people are too lazy to think...


----------



## ColoRoadie

A simple request via Alibaba PM put several geometry PDF's for several different frames in my email inbox. Pick the frame that catches your eye and then ask the manufacturer for the drawings. It's really pretty simple. The problem as I see it is that some people are too lazy to think and will rant on a forum until others post the geometry for them...while others simply ask the manufacturer they intend to buy from.


----------



## ericm979

I have a three year old PedalForce QS2. The FM006 looks identical and has the same geometry. I like the PF a lot and I'm thinking of getting an FM006 as a backup/spare.

One problem with the PF is that I can't remove the rear wheel without taking the nut off the skewer. The derailleur (where it bolts on to the hanger) is in the way. Does the FM006 have the same problem?


----------



## satanas

^^ You have failed to do me a sufficiently severe injury. Please note that I didn't ask anyone about the geometry for this frame - I'd never heard of the manufacturer until I saw the page with the drawings.


----------



## nedworthy

Yes, forgot to add it to photo, a basic alu one, weighs 30g.


----------



## WheresWaldo

satanas said:


> Ultraman, thanks for posting the FM757 geometry drawings! The first one (M/L) looks like as close to what I'd like as I'm going to get. They seem quite similar to the Lemond CF frames apart from a slacker head angle and more fork rake, and thus a longer front centre. The BB is a bit lower too - good.
> 
> Re stack/reach measurements: they only tell part of the story, i.e., what it will take to get the bars in a particular place. _*Useless for seat position *(bold mine)_, handling, etc. So, while they might be useful to know, one still needs *all* the measurements to have a good idea what's going on - as well as to have ridden enough bikes (and paid attention) so as to know what means what.


If you believe this then you don't understand what the measurements give you. No matter what the seat tube angle your physical dimensions are what they are. Your saddle position should always be the same with regard to the bottom bracket, it should always be the same dimension aft of the BB and it should always be the same dimension above the BB. So since STACK is relative to the BB why would you thing it has no meaning?

With regard to handling. Nearly all these bikes are very generic in measurements, they all have nearly identical trail measurements within a single decimal point, they nearly all have the same head tube and seat tube angles within a fraction of a degree (both the previous measurements fall within the likely manufacturing tolerances, I would say that unless you have mechanical sensors in your ass and hands and have Intel inside your noggin' that you would be hard pressed to tell much of a difference. You are correct about needing other measurements, I just think you aren't clear on which ones you need. I would say trail is a must and front center if you are at the smallest extreme, otherwise most everything else can be boiled down to STACK and REACH.

As a side note, here is where STACK and REACH are nearly useless: If you have no reference to what fits! If you have never been on a bike and simply don't know what sizes work then those numbers are meaningless. I would assume that most people on these threads are not in this category. It is a huge leap of faith if you have never owned a bike in your life to start out with a Chinese no-name frame.


----------



## cxl98904

i also ordered a fm028 in clearcoat from dengfu, just curious has anybody purchased dura ace, sram red, or campagnolo group from one of the various chinese sites?


----------



## cxl98904

i also ordered a fm028 in clearcoat from dengfu, Mr. Perkles and whereswaldo has inspired me to paint my scheme. Just curious has anybody purchased dura ace, sram red, or campagnolo group from one of the various chinese sites?


----------



## ultraman6970

wow and more wow


----------



## CyKlo

nedworthy said:


> For anyone still undecided about these frames, here's some photos of a delivery yesterday to show consistency of packing etc in relation to other threads. Frame is FM028 bought from DengFu in matt black. Also got seatpost and headset. Went via Alibaba, exchanged emails with Mina, got invoice paid by PP, arrive 12 days later. Frame looks excellent, all nicely finished and there is evidence of internal shaving of the excess fibres on headtube/BB.
> To coin a phrase ' Just Do it'.


Nedworthy,
Just a few days ago I ordered the FM015 from Mina/DengFu in matte black also. Could you please PM me or post a larger version and maybe additional shots of the frame itself? I have been very curious about the finish but yours looks good from what I can see. Thank you ver much!:thumbsup:


----------



## karlo

CyKlo said:


> Nedworthy,
> Just a few days ago I ordered the FM015 from Mina/DengFu in matte black also. Could you please PM me or post a larger version and maybe additional shots of the frame itself? I have been very curious about the finish but yours looks good from what I can see. Thank you ver much!:thumbsup:


Here is a link to pictures of my FM015 with some close up shots of the Matte finish

http://gabeadz.com/karlo/DengFu/


----------



## prendrefeu

ultraman6970 said:


> The frame comes in . XSMALL,SMALL, MEDIUM, MEDIUM/LARGE,LARGE AND XLARGE that is sort of what giant used to have back in the day, as a reference xlarge is like a size 60, and xsmall is around a 50
> .


Ok, so in addition to the shop drawings that were already posted, were you sent drawings for the XSMALL, SMALL sizes?


----------



## WheresWaldo

Got the painting done, now after the major assembly is done I have come to realize that I have no future in bicycle graphic design. 

I ripped the Sram Red off one of my Pedal Force frames and cleaned everything up in my ultrasonic cleaner, relubed and mounted on the frame. Still missing crank set. Picked up a new Sram Red 172.5 mm BB30 50/34T for $200 from Healthnet at the local swap meet. I am still missing some parts, wavy washer, bearing shields (will steal the black ones from my nephew's SLSI, bearing clip springs, white brake hoods. Once all the parts are on I will resnap pictures and post here. I expect that the maiden ride will be next weekend.

Nothing like getting a new bike just as winter starts.

_*Note to MrPerkles:*_ I did not use adhesion promoter on the bare frame and did not notice any difference spraying the clearcoat. Took a whole can to put two coats on frame and fork. Flashed in 15 minutes, dry to touch in 30. Level of gloss is very high. I was impressed for a DIY application.
_*
Note to weight weenies:*_ Clearcoat added 18 grams of weight with two medium coats.


----------



## onsight512

If someone could point me in the right direction, I would greatly appreciate it...

I'd like to buy one of these frames and build up a bike. I've recently begun commuting to work and am really enjoying it. So much so that I am itching to get out on the weekends and do some longer rides. Is there a frame from one of these manufacturers that might work better than another for this type of riding?

I'm not sure what's relevant, but I am 5'9" 175# with a 31" inseam. 

many thanks,
Chris


----------



## kk5551

Karlo--

Your bike turned out amazing! Great Job. I am getting ready to order mine in the next 1-2 days. I have just a few questions for you:

1) Are the main decals on your downtube vinyl ones that are just the letters that go on with some transfer paper or are they all part of one big decal that is cut out and put on? 

2) I notice from your pictures that your also got your handlebars from Dengfu. Which ones are they (model #)? They only have one pair on their site that are just rounded. 

Thank you much for your help.




karlo said:


> Here is a link to pictures of my FM015 with some close up shots of the Matte finish
> 
> http://gabeadz.com/karlo/DengFu/


----------



## ultraman6970

prendrefeu said:


> Ok, so in addition to the shop drawings that were already posted, were you sent drawings for the XSMALL, SMALL sizes?



Yes they did... send me your email and i will forward you the email with all the stuff.


----------



## karlo

kk5551 said:


> Karlo--
> 
> Your bike turned out amazing! Great Job. I am getting ready to order mine in the next 1-2 days. I have just a few questions for you:
> 
> 1) Are the main decals on your downtube vinyl ones that are just the letters that go on with some transfer paper or are they all part of one big decal that is cut out and put on?
> 
> 2) I notice from your pictures that your also got your handlebars from Dengfu. Which ones are they (model #)? They only have one pair on their site that are just rounded.
> 
> Thank you much for your help.



1) They are vinyl decals you can see them in the link.

Also for the person that ask a few days ago on size of decals, I didn't give the guy any measurements he knew what I wanted and they came out just how I wanted.

Down Tube: 1.75" x 14.5" or 4.5mm x 37mm
Seat Tube: 1.25" x 9.5" or 3mm x 24mm
Head Tube: .5" x 4.5" or 1.25mm x 12mm
Fork: starts on top at 1.5" ends at 1" x 12" or starts on top at 3.75mm ends at 2.5mm x 30.5mm

2) HB003 $48 (I ordered the 44cm so just ask Tony or Mina for the size you want)


----------



## kk5551

Can you post the decal guy's website again? Can't find it in prior posts..

Sorry... Thanks




karlo said:


> 1) They are vinyl decals you can see them in the link.
> 
> Also for the person that ask a few days ago on size of decals, I didn't give the guy any measurements he knew what I wanted and they came out just how I wanted.
> 
> Down Tube: 1.75" x 14.5" or 4.5mm x 37mm
> Seat Tube: 1.25" x 9.5" or 3mm x 24mm
> Head Tube: .5" x 4.5" or 1.25mm x 12mm
> Fork: starts on top at 1.5" ends at 1" x 12" or starts on top at 3.75mm ends at 2.5mm x 30.5mm
> 
> 2) HB003 $48 (I ordered the 44cm so just ask Tony or Mina for the size you want)


----------



## karlo

http://forums.roadbikereview.com/showpost.php?p=2993515&postcount=79

Make sure to double check everything especially spelling as he is from Brazil and he uses a translation site to communicate with emails but he does good work.


----------



## MrPerkles

WheresWaldo said:


> _*Note to MrPerkles:*_ I did not use adhesion promoter on the bare frame and did not notice any difference spraying the clearcoat. Took a whole can to put two coats on frame and fork. Flashed in 15 minutes, dry to touch in 30. Level of gloss is very high. I was impressed for a DIY application.
> _*
> Note to weight weenies:*_ Clearcoat added 18 grams of weight with two medium coats.


18 grams ! blasphemy
Waldo thanks i think once the clear goes on it bonds everything together,clear is the finishing touch and you do need a surprising amount to get a good shine.The only thing im going to start doing is masking the rear and front drop outs as there is no point painting them,the paint will only come off.
Looking foward to your photos of it built up :thumbsup:


----------



## MrPerkles

onsight512 said:


> If someone could point me in the right direction, I would greatly appreciate it...
> 
> I'd like to buy one of these frames and build up a bike. I've recently begun commuting to work and am really enjoying it. So much so that I am itching to get out on the weekends and do some longer rides. Is there a frame from one of these manufacturers that might work better than another for this type of riding?
> 
> I'm not sure what's relevant, but I am 5'9" 175# with a 31" inseam.
> 
> many thanks,
> Chris


Chris just get one that fits you best and you like the look of,nothing more scientific to it than that .The Hong Fu frames seem to be the most popular


----------



## stormless

hi all

is there anyone who has already ordered from gotobike? is that the transaction is well spent?

Thank you for your answers


----------



## aikendrum

karlo said:


> http://forums.roadbikereview.com/showpost.php?p=2993515&postcount=79
> 
> Make sure to double check everything especially spelling as he is from Brazil and he uses a translation site to communicate with emails but he does good work.


I second this - Marco is fantastic and quick - with my simple design and fonts, a couple of back and forth emails translated to Portuguese he produced wicked decals. Ordered and took about 20 days to arrive from Brazil to Australia - Results speak for themselves.....:thumbsup: 

P.S 2,692km on the ODO - still going strong!


----------



## asherstash1

stormless said:


> hi all
> 
> is there anyone who has already ordered from gotobike? is that the transaction is well spent?
> 
> Thank you for your answers



look through the threads, theres a massive resource of info here about ALL the companys involved... many people dont bother replying to these q's anymore as theyve already answered it 3 or 4 times lol


----------



## MrPerkles

that looks great


----------



## aikendrum

MrPerkles said:


> that looks great


Thanks MrPerkles - Quite an admirer of your bikes too! You may be interested to know Marco (Brazillian Decal guy) produces both Vinyl and Water Slide stickers - this would allow you to paint, apply complex decals and then clear coat.


----------



## independentmind

*Work in progress*

<a href="https://www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected]/5173011650/" title="DSC03219 by independent.mind, on Flickr"><img src="https://farm5.static.flickr.com/4131/5173011650_18e5558d7a.jpg" width="500" height="385" alt="DSC03219" /></a>

It's a work in progress. I'm still waiting on a few items to complete this, but it's a long term project. I'm waiting on a set of Sram levers. My mind isn't quite made up on these Tektro calipers, and I still have to decide on a saddle.

The wheels will come later.

Yes the seatpost is is probably too long, and yes the spacers will come down  


If anyone has questions regarding this particular frame model, ask away.


----------



## dmabraham

Just the usual, which frame, seller, and how much? I am saving for a TT frame and am always looking for positive feedback on transactions and companies. Why did you shoose this one?


----------



## dmabraham

Just the usual, which frame, seller, and how much? I am saving for a TT frame and am always looking for positive feedback on transactions and companies. Why did you choose this one?


----------



## independentmind

dmabraham said:


> Just the usual, which frame, seller, and how much? I am saving for a TT frame and am always looking for positive feedback on transactions and companies. Why did you choose this one?



Hi there,

-The frame/fork/headset/upgraded seatpost/derailleur dropout + shipping came to $550 US
-I live in Canada and customs did not tax me
-I don't recall if I had to pay any further customs fees
-I'm sorry but I do not recall the frame model #, I'm sure someone on here will be able to pull that up

-The ebay merchant was bikebicycle99, his email came from a "Kong Rijin"
-Email address: [email protected]
-I would give him about a 7 out of 10 on his English skills
-He was responsive, but I tend to be very direct with online retailers

The transaction:

Pretty smooth, but you really have to make sure that you are getting what you pay for. I mentioned numerous times in my emails the contents of the order and had him agree on these, that way if the package showed up without a seatpost, I could have refereed back to our conversations and have some leverage.

He did forget to send me the headset, but once I wrote back (quoting a previous email where he said that it was included) he sent it to me right away. 

The transaction was done OFF of ebay, this is because he did not have my size listed online at the time. The payment was sent via Paypal.

Frame choice:

After looking at comments on this board regarding the TT frames, I decided on this model mostly because the dimensions seemed to fit my body type a little better. It resembles the "Planet-x" and "Pedal force" TT frames, so It was a little easier to decide on the medium as this is the same size those two retailers recommend for people my height (5'9"). My seller was also keen on putting me into a Medium frame.

I had originally looked at the TT frame which has a brake mount under the BB, but decided against it since there have been some issues with the mounting of that brake and cable routing.

Frame quality:

I wont comment on ride quality since I am yet to ride it, but visually I can say that the finish is surprisingly good! the clear coat looks fine and I did not spot any physical issues on the surface. I did however have to remove a piece of carbon sheeting that was scratching against the fork steerer (inside the headtube). But really, that was the only issue (knock on wood). Also, the carbon weave looks well laid out, no sloppy overlapping anywhere that I can spot.

I have mounted an extra set of wheels on the frame to see if there was any issues with alignment, and I am happy to say there were none. This was a problem with earlier road forks (there's a post on this board from a long time ago regarding this.)

Hope that helps someone :thumbsup: it was a painless transaction, I'll soon be purchasing a set of carbon clinchers from another retailer.


----------



## asherstash1

funding for final stage of build has been procured. score! buying starts tuesday i think, so up and running soon. lovely stickers, gonna have to get me a brazilian


----------



## independentmind

asherstash1 said:


> funding for final stage of build has been procured. score! buying starts tuesday i think, so up and running soon. lovely stickers, gonna have to get me a brazilian


Word to the wise, keep track of everything on a spreadsheet, costs can really escalate.

Also make sure you think out your choices for the build really well, I'm now stuck with a pair of Tektro calipers that I wont likelly use.

I'm thinking about reaching out to the brazilian too, looks like good work. I also need something done for my CAAD 9.


----------



## iherald

karlo said:


> Here is a link to pictures of my FM015 with some close up shots of the Matte finish
> 
> http://gabeadz.com/karlo/DengFu/


Karlo, just out of curiosity, why did you put stickers on it versus get them to paint the logos onto the bike directly?


----------



## Urb

iherald said:


> Karlo, just out of curiosity, why did you put stickers on it versus get them to paint the logos onto the bike directly?


It's not easy to paint repetative patterns. That type of work would increase the paint work cost substantially. Decals are a reasonable compromise. Those considering decals might want to put them on before the clear coat.


----------



## independentmind

karlo said:


> http://forums.roadbikereview.com/showpost.php?p=2993515&postcount=79
> 
> Make sure to double check everything especially spelling as he is from Brazil and he uses a translation site to communicate with emails but he does good work.


Hi Karlo, it's probably too early to tell but would you say the decals are printed on good quality vinyl? How easy are they to peel off?

What I'm trying to get at is do they seem like they'l come off the first time you spill water on them?


----------



## ultraman6970

For some areas vinyl looks like a good idea, for other places definitively transfers are better.


----------



## Niall8can

a little delayed on the pics front, but build now finished!

i am very pleased with the result. not had a ride on it yet and the weather dictates that that wont be until the spring now.


----------



## independentmind

Niall8can said:


> a little delayed on the pics front, but build now finished!
> 
> i am very pleased with the result. not had a ride on it yet and the weather dictates that that wont be until the spring now.


Well done, I love that crankset, would look great on my Caad 9 :idea: 

Which wheelset are you sporting in the pic?


----------



## ultraman6970

Naill what chain is that one????


----------



## Niall8can

cheers guys.

chain is a kmc x10 white powder coated. 
http://www.ribblecycles.co.uk/sp/road-track-bike/Chains-KMC-X10-10-Spd-Chain/KMCACHAI580

not sure how long the whiteness will last looks ace for the initial build though. will prob swap to a x10sl in due course.

wheelset wise they are planet x 20mm rims which are the same as ffwd 20mms but for a bargain price of £125. hubs are also planet x pro (light and spin well) had them built by my lbs 2 cross at the front for strength and 2 cross drive side and radial nds. really lovely wheels. coupled with a kcnc cassette and hutchinson tubs.


----------



## ultraman6970

Wow i remember seen a new black one like the gold 10sl, but white it is interesting. 

I have been using a gold sl for about two years now (i barely ride) and the color is almost intact. Usually the color fades after a few months but this one looks like fine, im impressed.


----------



## Niall8can

haven't seen any other bikes sporting white chains so i am assuming they are fairly new. 

clearly there is no preformance advantage but hey i thing a bling bike goes faster. have some of the rock and roll lube that is suppose to not pick up any grime and dirt so will see how it holds up.


----------



## asherstash1

i am going for gold bits on my naked carbon for time bein i think...


----------



## athletic91

does anyone know the colour code of team sky blue?


----------



## IRMB

IRMB said:


> I finally got around to weighing these parts.
> 
> Frame - 1180 grams, or 2.66 pounds. Size 61
> Fork - 379 grams with uncut steer tube
> Seat post - 159 grams
> 
> I'm definitely happy with these numbers.
> 
> I will be building my wheels this week- Chris King classics on Mavic Open Pro's.
> Shod receive the components next week - Sram Force kit.
> 
> Will post pics when done.


I got my wheels built two weekends ago and received the components last week.

Built the bike up Friday night and rode it saturday - about 45 miles or so.

Got in a short ride after work today, as well.

This bike rides fantastic! I am replacing an old Kestrel 200 SCI. Comparitively, the new bike is so much more comfortable. MUCH better vibration damping and bump absorption.

Pedalling feels good. Standing and climbing feels fantastic. The bike bursts forward.

My build includes a full Sram Force group.

Chris King wheels with Mavic Open Pro's. 1,600 grams for the wheels.
3T cockpit

16.5 pounds in a 61cm. I am very happy with the weight. The bike feels super light and rides great.


----------



## Local Hero

There's a local guy riding a FM015 w/ ISP. It has RIDLEY on the downtube and seatpost. 

He's on a team and sponsored. "They" gave him the bike. Nobody on the local rides knows a thing. They all think it's a Ridley, even my friend who manages the LBS. 


It got me thinking. I've been eying the FM015. I should either put the exact same decals on mine and if anyone asks (they wont), I'll just say I have the same frame as that dude. OR...I can put some LOOK decals on my frame. I'll be the only guy in town riding a LOOK 666.


----------



## ultraman6970

Riders and a shop person do not know it is not the real stuff? amaze me.

Well what u can do is come up with some random brand, or with some non known brand from europe so they have at least to dig it to find out like for example BH from spain (super old brand), or some RIH or some stuff. Ridley it is too obvious if you ask me.

Next option just get the bike painted like the trek radioshack, nobody will notice ever hehehe


----------



## thefutureofamerica

Local Hero said:


> I'll be the only guy in town riding a LOOK 666.


Haha, I love it... with some super-dark red (almost black) decals on a black frame, that would look rad.


----------



## ultraman6970

What would be even funnier is if somebody actually starts looking at that model in the internet


----------



## ultraman6970

Ok guys, what frame is this one? Anybody have seen this frame moving around?










THanks.


----------



## Local Hero

ultraman6970 said:


> Riders and a shop person do not know it is not the real stuff? amaze me.
> 
> Well what u can do is come up with some random brand, or with some non known brand from europe so they have at least to dig it to find out like for example BH from spain (super old brand), or some RIH or some stuff. Ridley it is too obvious if you ask me.
> 
> Next option just get the bike painted like the trek radioshack, nobody will notice ever hehehe


It's obvious to us because we read these threads. 

But two guys referred to the Ridley guy in the pack saying, "He's the guy riding up front on the Ridley with Easton wheels"


(Maybe the wheels are fakes too?)

I'll snap a picture next saturday. 


thefutureofamerica said:


> Haha, I love it... with some super-dark red (almost black) decals on a black frame, that would look rad.



ROOK 666?


----------



## zender

Like the frame posted by Ultraman - curious which one that is, the ISP/clamp setup looks like the other Chinese stuff. Are those red anodized SRAM brakes?

edit:
Under 1800 bucks shipped with Apex... http://cgi.ebay.com/Rossetti-Vertig...50720921659?pt=Road_Bikes&hash=item3a6021a83b

That's not a bad way to go. You'd probably come pretty close to that if you were building from scratch and didn't have parts lying around.


----------



## foofighter

that rosetti is crazy inexpensive wow


----------



## Halfie

Check out the rest of the frames at that ebay link. The Diablesse in Black and Fluro yellow looks suspiciously like a FM015 to me, and there is another one there that looks like the FM001 (But at 870g instead of about 1100, so I don't know for sure) so maybe they ARE available somewhere. I want one of these vertigo frames, but I have never seen something like that at the usual spots. Maybe it's a new 2011 frame?

Edit: Damn my eyes, yeah that Diablesse was black and green/white.


----------



## cynan

Halfie said:


> Check out the rest of the frames at that ebay link. The Diablesse in Black and Fluro yellow looks suspiciously like a FM015 to me, and there is another one there that looks like the FM001 (But at 870g instead of about 1100, so I don't know for sure) so maybe they ARE available somewhere. I want one of these vertigo frames, but I have never seen something like that at the usual spots. Maybe it's a new 2011 frame?


The DIablesse I come up with is black and green/white, not yellow. This frame does remind me of the Fm015 (similar head tube shape and thin seat stays), but I"m pretty sure it's not as the geometry is off. For example, the large size (80cm seat tube including ISP) has a similar top tube length to the 58cm FM015, however, heat and seat tube angles are off (72.7 and 73 deg vs 73 and 73.5 on FM015)

I also like the look of that Vertigo frame. Similar lines to the FM028, but more aggressive geometry due to flatter top tube (like the FM015)


----------



## cynan

I apologize if this has been answered before, but I was wondering where to get torque numbers for building up these carbon frames (ie, FM015). Specifically interested in:

BB cup 
stem at steerer tube
seat post clamp for non-ISP
bolts for derailler hangers and cages, brake mounts, etc


----------



## ericjacobsen3

*Careful*

Careful, the pictures show Red, but most of them are Apex parts.



Halfie said:


> Check out the rest of the frames at that ebay link. The Diablesse in Black and Fluro yellow looks suspiciously like a FM015 to me, and there is another one there that looks like the FM001 (But at 870g instead of about 1100, so I don't know for sure) so maybe they ARE available somewhere. I want one of these vertigo frames, but I have never seen something like that at the usual spots. Maybe it's a new 2011 frame?


----------



## ultraman6970

No arent sram brakes, they are maybe kcnc type of brakes. The bike doesnt look like 72 degrees at all. Looks like 74 degrees, probably they do not even know and just put whatever because the geometries are pretty weird in their web site.

Would love to get that darn frame. looks nice.



zender said:


> Like the frame posted by Ultraman - curious which one that is, the ISP/clamp setup looks like the other Chinese stuff. Are those red anodized SRAM brakes?
> 
> edit:
> Under 1800 bucks shipped with Apex... http://cgi.ebay.com/Rossetti-Vertig...50720921659?pt=Road_Bikes&hash=item3a6021a83b
> 
> That's not a bad way to go. You'd probably come pretty close to that if you were building from scratch and didn't have parts lying around.


----------



## ultraman6970

ROOK 666? <--- you can say it is a japanese frame hahahahah


----------



## zender

The more I look at it, the more I'm lovin' that Vertigo frame. The headtube area reminds me of a big gusseted aluminum DH mountain bike frame  

Gonna shoot an email to Mina to see if they have seen it over at Dengfu. Will update when I hear back.


----------



## ultraman6970

Good idea!!


----------



## gwillis

ultraman6970 said:


> Ok guys, what frame is this one? Anybody have seen this frame moving around?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> THanks.


Ive been considering a FM015 as my first build and have been lurking for a while plotting my build. But after seeing this bike Ive gotta build one of these its gorgeous. If anybody finds a frame please please let me know. I love the lines and the red and black looks a million dollars. Thanks in advance.


----------



## ultraman6970

I have seen those seat and chain stays somewhere, cant remember where tho...:/


----------



## zender

Got a reply from Mina. They only have the FM015 and 028. She does not know which model that is.

I agree that it looks vaguely familiar around the seatpost and rear triangle. But, I don't recall seeing that headtube arrangement on a no-name frame.


----------



## independentmind

karlo said:


> Finally got my bike setup and decals came in yesterday and on the bike. Here are a few pictures but click on the link below to see more if you like.
> 
> KGDC-6 (FM015 from DengFu) - 16lbs as shown
> 
> To see more detailed larger pics click here: KGDC-6 Pictures


Karlo did you do a clear coat over the decals? I'm thinking of emailing Brazil for some custom work myself.


----------



## lobo

gwillis said:


> Ive been considering a FM015 as my first build and have been lurking for a while plotting my build. But after seeing this bike Ive gotta build one of these its gorgeous. If anybody finds a frame please please let me know. I love the lines and the red and black looks a million dollars. Thanks in advance.


This is ROSSETTI VERTIGO, italian. Nice. You can buy it on line from manufacturer.


----------



## ultraman6970

/////


----------



## ultraman6970

Lobo that bike never been italian, in a matter of fact the most close that bike will get to italy it will be the last name brand. The owner is an argentinian that is in miami right now. The second fact is that italians hate argentinians because they swear to be italians (u did not born in italy? then you are not italian, as simple as that), having those two facts in consideration to even put the word italian nearby rossetti is the biggest sacrilege ever to the italian industry 

This is a chain toy store in buenos aires, argentina.

http://www.juguetibici.com/index.php?bq=0&n1=QklDSUNMRVRBUyBST1NTRVRUSQ==&

And here is a rossetti for kids and other stuff with a very italian brand names

http://www.juguetibici.com/index.php?bq=0&n3=QklDSUNMRVRBUyBNQUc=&

We need to find out what frame is that one....


----------



## ultraman6970

If you alibaba it!! it says are coming from australia? WTF?



zender said:


> Got a reply from Mina. They only have the FM015 and 028. She does not know which model that is.
> 
> I agree that it looks vaguely familiar around the seatpost and rear triangle. But, I don't recall seeing that headtube arrangement on a no-name frame.


----------



## lobo

ultraman6970 said:


> Lobo that bike never been italian, in a matter of fact the most close that bike will get to italy it will be the last name brand. The owner is an argentinian that is in miami right now. The second fact is that italians hate argentinians because they swear to be italians (u did not born in italy? then you are not italian, as simple as that), having those two facts in consideration to even put the word italian nearby rossetti is the biggest sacrilege ever to the italian industry
> 
> This is a chain toy store in buenos aires, argentina.
> 
> http://www.juguetibici.com/index.php?bq=0&n1=QklDSUNMRVRBUyBST1NTRVRUSQ==&
> 
> And here is a rossetti for kids and other stuff with a very italian brand names
> 
> http://www.juguetibici.com/index.php?bq=0&n3=QklDSUNMRVRBUyBNQUc=&
> 
> We need to find out what frame is that one....


Yes ...this is fake but I like it much more than genuin Vertigo.


----------



## CyKlo

independentmind said:


> Karlo did you do a clear coat over the decals? I'm thinking of emailing Brazil for some custom work myself.


Maro Pollo with the decals for frames just put my own designs and graphics on his website. I have been working with him to get my design translated to the frame and he finally got it. He did not ask for permission to use them but I guess that's OK. However, he gives me no credit for my stuff? 

It's the FMO15 set on the black frame at his site.
http://designstickers.blogspot.com/

- The FMO15 is the frame DengFu. 
- I just used a crosshair for the O. The cross for my lifelong guardian angel and my nickname happens to be Hair. (from Rock drummer days back in the 80s).

- The Diamond is three fold. It is a double black diamond. I live just outside Aspen Colorado and ski double blacks religiously. Diamonds are also 100% carbon. As you know - 6 is the carbon molecular number

- The HeiTan-FC6 - HeiTan is and English force of "BlackCarbon" and the FC is Full Carbon6

- The dragon is a Chinese dragon rep.

I asked Marco for solid white and solid black. Not sure if I will use the white ones are black ones and go very muted black on black.

Marco has not sent me the sheets but I am looking forward to it. 

Mina gave me shipping info today for my FMO15 and also provided a pic of my frame before shipping after paint.

Will post pics of the finished product when possible
-


----------



## karlo

independentmind said:


> Karlo did you do a clear coat over the decals? I'm thinking of emailing Brazil for some custom work myself.


No, I didn't coat over them but they don't look like they will peel off easily, _cross my fingers_ 

I think Marco has posted all the designs from several people here i believe including mine.


----------



## CyKlo

karlo said:


> No, I didn't coat over them but they don't look like they will peel off easily, _cross my fingers_
> 
> I think Marco has posted all the designs from several people here i believe including mine.


No problem Karlo. I just used to do graphic design etc. and was always a little sensitive to those things. Didn't you just suggest the letters etc. and Marco came up with the design elements, like the carbon atom graphic and layout? Just curious. He was very quick to repsond as you said. I was very impressed!. It took a little back and forth to get the fonts and elements together but he is great and fast. I do not know what he will charge me for the decals yet, but it will be worth every penney. Cheers.:8:


----------



## karlo

I actually came up with the logos and fonts to use, I just send him my drawings and font files and he took care of the rest but he did make a few on his own that I didn't request but it was part of the package i guess.

If anyone wants ideas on fonts this is where I go to get mine: http://www.1001freefonts.com/


----------



## AvantDale

Are these frames FM015's?

Frame shape looks the same, but this one has an ISP?


















I really like how the frame looks.


----------



## karlo

Yes they are


----------



## CyKlo

AvantDale,
Look a couple of posts above. That is the pic of my FMO15 that just got painted matte black like Karlo's. Shipped yesterday. Both the frames you posted are FMO15. One is matte black like ours and the other is black with the standard clear coat glossy finish. Cheers.


----------



## AvantDale

If you look at the first picture it posted...it has a really long seat tube?

The frames look the same...but the seat tube has me kind of confused.


----------



## ClarkinHawaii

the real long seat tube is called Integrated Seat Post (ISP). Many of these frames can be had either with normal seatpost arrangement or ISP.


----------



## karlo

You realize that they are not the same size frames, right?


----------



## CyKlo

karlo said:


> No, I didn't coat over them but they don't look like they will peel off easily, _cross my fingers_
> 
> I think Marco has posted all the designs from several people here i believe including mine.


Karlo,
How did you pay Marco for the decals? I am waiting for a final price and how to get him paid as well. How long did your decals take once you paid - like 20 days you said, I think?
Thanks again.


----------



## AvantDale

ClarkinHawaii said:


> the real long seat tube is called Integrated Seat Post (ISP). Many of these frames can be had either with normal seatpost arrangement or ISP.


Yes I know...but the seat mast looks like it fits inside the tube instead of a cap that fits on top.




karlo said:


> You realize that they are not the same size frames, right?


Yes I do...you can tell the upper frame is bigger by the taller head tube and the gap between the top and down tubes.

Maybe they are the "same" frame...but different manufacturers?


----------



## karlo

AvantDale said:


> Yes I know...but the seat mast looks like it fits inside the tube instead of a cap that fits on top.


Maybe this is what they did to it, gives it a cleaner look imo.

http://www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected]/1333791384/




CyKlo said:


> Karlo,
> How did you pay Marco for the decals? I am waiting for a final price and how to get him paid as well. How long did your decals take once you paid - like 20 days you said, I think?
> Thanks again.


PAYPAL and yup it does take a while and it feels longer just waiting for them.


----------



## zender

AvantDale said:


>


What's up with the milk bottle? Is the bike in this pic really being propped up on a 3/4 full glass bottle of milk?


----------



## independentmind

Thanks for the replies guys, I'm just mocking up my TT frame in illustrator coming up with decal ideas (I was in design, once upon a time).

The FM015 with the ISP is really really nice! The matte black looks really good, and I think the way to go if you want understated. If I didn't have my Caad 9 I would be looking into getting one of those.


----------



## FTR

zender said:


> What's up with the milk bottle? Is the bike in this pic really being propped up on a 3/4 full glass bottle of milk?



It is OK, he has a coaster under it.


----------



## WheresWaldo

*Ride report on FM015*

This afternoon I went out for my first ride on my new FM015. First a build list:

55cm FM015 BB30
SRAM Red full group including BB30 crankset
Ultegra 6700 11-28T cassette
Alligator iLinks
Chinese carbon bars 44cm (O to O)
eBay carbon cages
Fizik white tape
Hudz Soft Touch replacement hoods
Thomson Masterpiece seat post
Ritchey 4-Axis 44 stem 110mm
Specialized Toupe
Woodman seat post clamp
Speedplay Zero w/Ward Industries Titanium axles

Wheels were build by me specifically for climbing and use the following components:

20mm Carbon tubular rims (20/24)
Bike Soul Prodigy v3.1 hubs
Sapim CX-Ray spokes
DT Alloy nipples
Continental Sprinters (non-Gatorskin)

Bike weight today was just under 14 pounds without bottle and seat bag. Please note that one of the pictures here is as I will ride it in the group ride tomorrow, so I now have my 50mm Powertap wheels installed.


FM015 as originally built by WheresWaldo, on Flickr


FM015 equipped for group ride by WheresWaldo, on Flickr

Let me preface this by saying that I am a bit under the weather and so could not really push as hard as I wanted to. This is also a test ride for the wheel set so some of the observations may change tomorrow as I ride with my regular wheel set.

Today was a mid 60° day with plenty of gusty weather so it seemed like there were headwinds no matter what direction we were going. The FM015 was set up to fit exactly like my two Pedal Force RS bikes so I knew there would be no need for adjustments on the road. Ride consisted of a few hills but only 12 miles on the road.

Starting out the first thing I noticed was just how smooth the FM015 rides. Compared to the PF this was like riding a cloud. Where the PF bounces around a bit on some of the rougher pavement, the FM015 seemed like it was more "stuck" to the road, a lot less bounce. There was absolutely no hint of flex from the bottom bracket area, it appears to transfer power smoothly from pedal stroke to rear tire.

I did attempt some out of the saddle sprinting, but again since I am not feeling 100% I could not muster enough energy for any long sprints. What I was able to manage resulted in a noticeable lunge forward when you did stomp on the pedals. It was much less noticeable from very slow speeds, but if you were already moving at 19-20 mph accelerating to 23-24 mph seemed effortless. Some of that was the 1035g wheel set but a lot was due to the stiffness of the frame.

The bumps on the road were very well absorbed. At no time did I feel like the bumps bounced me off the saddle. I would certainly consider riding this bike on century rides, if I were so inclined to ride centuries. Although I think the front fork is too heavy for this frame, it did track very straight and during the two 32+ mph descents there wasn't any hint of shudder. During the ride I swapped bikes with my nephew (Cannondale SuperSix Team) and was able to watch the bike from a few different angles while it was on the road. First thing noticed was just how quiet it rode. There was definitely less noise coming from the FM015 than the SuperSix. His sprint can exceed 1000 watts and watching the bike under one all out sprint did not produce any tire rub or any other un-bicycle like sounds. To say he was impressed is an understatement. 

Tomorrow will be a better test. a usual 36 mile group ride, some very fast sections as well as some very slow sections. A much better test.


----------



## stig

karlo said:


> I think Marco has posted all the designs from several people here i believe including mine.


Marco did my "Tejon" decals for my Hongfu FM016 frame. Even with the language barrier he was easy to work with on the design. I am still waiting for delivery so I cannot give an opinion on the quality of the finished product.

I am already thinking of a revised design for a road frame.


----------



## MrPerkles

nice report Walso,bike looks great
Also love those stealth look bikes in the previous posts


----------



## cryoplasm

That is not milk!


----------



## ms6073

> slabber said:
> 
> 
> 
> Does anyone know what frame Boyd is selling as the B930?
> http://boydbikes.com/B930frame.html
> 
> His B101 is the FM015... but the B930 comes in an 'XS' that could be suitable for my wife That said, it actually looks like its compact geometry so perhaps not.
> 
> He describes it as being stiffer than the FM015 - presumably because of the seat stays. Thoughts?
> 
> 
> 
> WheresWaldo said:
> 
> 
> 
> Slabber, it looks a bit like this one:
> 
> http://carbon-products.en.alibaba.c...rated_ISP_FM238_BB30.html#productDetailpageLo cation
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
Click to expand...

Exporting the bit above from the closed 'Carbon Ebay Frames for 2010-11 v 2.0' thread and thought that the frameset looked pretty good and was curious if anyone had followed up or has had any dealings or has any more information on the ISP-FM238 from the Sanming Wish Trade Company?


----------



## ultraman6970

THat frame looks like it is the same Pedal FOrce is selling. If you are in the states you could be better contacting pedal force if you are afraid of the chinese company.


----------



## hdn0380

Has anyone seen these yet from DengFu? It's listed as the FM-019. Just wondering if anyone has better pictures, particularly the cable routing.


----------



## asherstash1

lol, i bought so much stuff on ebay last night my bank froze my account as they suspected fraud  goodies here soon, including new force 2010 shifters which werent technically in the budget but will deffo be appearing on my bank statement... :S
i cant wait, bugger christmas!


----------



## Guymk

@ WheresWaldo
Your bike looks great, i really like the custom paint job. Doesn't scream look at me but it doesn't look too generic either. I am most likely going to get a new frame in february or march of next year and I am having a hard time deciding if i want to go with the fm015 or if i want t get the new Caad10.. At least i have time to decide.


----------



## equinoxx

Finally got a chance to weigh my completed bike and I am a little confused (disappointed) by the results. It came out to be 17.3lbs. Build list is as follows

fm015 (53cm non-ISP BB30)
CF fork/handlebars/bottle cages (from Deng Fu)
complete 2010 SRAM Force groupset (11-26T cassette)
Mavik Aksium wheelset
Selle SMP Composit saddle
Ritchey seatpost
Forte (house label from Performance Bike) 90mm stem
Forte carbon road pedals

I know the wheelset is pretty heavy in comparison to some of the builds using carbon or tubular wheels. However I did not think it was 2-3lbs heavier?? I was expecting the completed weight of bike to be around 16.5lbs based on sum of mfg weights. Maybe my math just sucks haha


----------



## Bacana

I looked up those wheels on the Mavic website; at 1800 grams, they're 200 to 300 (or more) grams heavier than a lot of other wheels people use.

You didn't mention the tires; you may be able to save a good amount of weight with them, too.


----------



## independentmind

equinoxx said:
 

> Finally got a chance to weigh my completed bike and I am a little confused (disappointed) by the results. It came out to be 17.3lbs. Build list is as follows
> 
> fm015 (53cm non-ISP BB30)
> CF fork/handlebars/bottle cages (from Deng Fu)
> complete 2010 SRAM Force groupset (11-26T cassette)
> Mavik Aksium wheelset
> Selle SMP Composit saddle
> Ritchey seatpost
> Forte (house label from Performance Bike) 90mm stem
> Forte carbon road pedals
> 
> I know the wheelset is pretty heavy in comparison to some of the builds using carbon or tubular wheels. However I did not think it was 2-3lbs heavier?? I was expecting the completed weight of bike to be around 16.5lbs based on sum of mfg weights. Maybe my math just sucks haha


Take a look at the wheels first, and I agree on the tires, you may be able to save some weight on those.

Probikekit had twin packs of Michelin Pro 3 tires at a killer price 2 days ago (less than half the price bought locally in Canada) $60.97 after discount codes. :thumbsup: so keep an eye on their site. They may still have the sale on.

17.3 lbs is still pretty standard with a set of training wheels though. I have a set of R500 hoops on my Caad9 for training that weight more than your wheelset. I actually did a triathlon on them last season :mad2:


----------



## prendrefeu

equinoxx said:


> Finally got a chance to weigh my completed bike and I am a little confused (disappointed) by the results. It came out to be 17.3lbs. Build list is as follows
> 
> fm015 (53cm non-ISP BB30)
> CF fork/handlebars/bottle cages (from Deng Fu)
> complete 2010 SRAM Force groupset (11-26T cassette)
> Mavik Aksium wheelset
> Selle SMP Composit saddle
> Ritchey seatpost
> Forte (house label from Performance Bike) 90mm stem
> Forte carbon road pedals
> 
> I know the wheelset is pretty heavy in comparison to some of the builds using carbon or tubular wheels. However I did not think it was 2-3lbs heavier?? I was expecting the completed weight of bike to be around 16.5lbs based on sum of mfg weights. Maybe my math just sucks haha


Ummm.... no. You and most people on this forum aren't quite serious WeightWeenie folks. If you were you wouldn't be on this forum, obviously!  

Let's start with this:
the FM015 is a heavy frame. It isn't light at all. I'd say it's kinda porky, actually.
The fork that comes with it is also quite heavy by comparison to a 'standard' carbon fork (not even the ultra light ones).
The handlebars offered by DengFu...actually, all 'generic' carbon handlebars being offered on the net publicly are quite heavy. They're heavier than aluminum counterparts!
The Ritchey seatpost is probably heavy, guessing by their products even though you didnt' specify which model.
The Forte pedals are anchors, sorry.
Your wheelset is - as stated before - heavy.

Yeah, 17 lbs is totally accurate for your build. This is the result of adding a whole bunch of either 'heavy' or 'meh' or 'not quite light' parts. Cumulative gains here, that's it. 
Remember that 100g is just about .22lbs... so think, roughly, that every 400g is a pound. Your frame is about 200g too heavy for what it is, and that's just off the top of my head. It may be 300g obese.
The fork is easily 100g overweight for an uncut fork.
The handlebars are around 80-90g overweight.
...seatpost I don't know, but guessing it's 100g over.
Pedals... 100g over.
Wheels.... yeah, wow. GREAT training wheels though!!

Anyway, you built up a nice bike that you enjoy riding, that's the point. Don't focus on the weight unless you're really serious about it (it being weight tuning). 

Happy miles ahead! :thumbsup:


----------



## WheresWaldo

prendrefeu said:


> Ummm.... no. You and most people on this forum aren't quite serious WeightWeenie folks. If you were you wouldn't be on this forum, obviously!


 Then why are _*you *_here! :blush2:


> Let's start with this:
> the FM015 is a heavy frame. It isn't light at all. I'd say it's kinda porky, actually.
> The fork that comes with it is also quite heavy by comparison to a 'standard' carbon fork (not even the ultra light ones).


 100% agree. My frame started out heavier than my same size Pedal Force RS, by almost 80 grams. Fork was over 100 grams more than my light Alpha Q GS-10. Right there it put my build at a 6.4 ounce disadvantage.


> The handlebars offered by DengFu...actually, all 'generic' carbon handlebars being offered on the net publicly are quite heavy. They're heavier than aluminum counterparts!


 Not always true, my 44 cm O-O generic Chinese bars are actually lighter than the two Zipp SL2C that I have, it is actually almost 15 grams lighter than one of them. That bar cam in at 190 grams, pretty good for a cheap carbon bar, even good for an expensive carbon bar.


> The Ritchey seatpost is probably heavy, guessing by their products even though you didnt' specify which model.
> The Forte pedals are anchors, sorry.
> Your wheelset is - as stated before - heavy.


 Should look at a Thomson Masterpiece or a KCNC Pro Lite seat post, unless you really like that Ritchey so much that you won't part with it. Pedals = boat anchors, enough said.


> Yeah, 17 lbs is totally accurate for your build. This is the result of adding a whole bunch of either 'heavy' or 'meh' or 'not quite light' parts. Cumulative gains here, that's it. Remember that 100g is just about .22lbs... so think, roughly, that every 400g is a pound. Your frame is about 200g too heavy for what it is, and that's just off the top of my head. It may be 300g obese.
> The fork is easily 100g overweight for an uncut fork.
> The handlebars are around 80-90g overweight.
> ...seatpost I don't know, but guessing it's 100g over.
> Pedals... 100g over.
> Wheels.... yeah, wow. GREAT training wheels though!!
> 
> Anyway, you built up a nice bike that you enjoy riding, that's the point. Don't focus on the weight unless you're really serious about it (it being weight tuning).
> 
> Happy miles ahead! :thumbsup:


Please note that I am not specifically responding to *prendrefeu *but that is just the post I clicked quote on. Ok the first comment was for prendrefeu!


----------



## ericjacobsen3

*FM015 weight*

My 55cm FM015 is 16.2 lbs with Campy Athena carbon, Neuvation wheels, Bikesdirect pedals, Hongfu post, and aluminum bars, Flite saddle.

I'm not complaining for a $1,500 bike.


----------



## prendrefeu

WheresWaldo said:


> Then why are _*you *_here! :blush2:


Haha touché. I came here, originally, to see how people were doing with their generics. I actually have one myself, but a model that is no longer available. Comes in at ~920g for a 53, and I love it. I'm mostly on the WW forum though, it's more 'tech' oriented. The accompanying fork was 315g, uncut. Not too bad for a generic, eh? 



WheresWaldo said:


> Not always true, my 44 cm O-O generic Chinese bars are actually lighter than the two Zipp SL2C that I have, it is actually almost 15 grams lighter than one of them. That bar cam in at 190 grams, pretty good for a cheap carbon bar, even good for an expensive carbon bar.


Really? I'm happily surprised! Most CF 'generics' are quoted in coming in anywhere between 240-280g. Can you provide a link/source for yours? What's the drop & reach?


----------



## skygodmatt

....been lurking this thread for the last couple of hours. 

Has anyone built this carbon frame? It's BB30 about $500. I was thinking of getting it and putting it to the test. I was wondering if the comfort is adequate?

Here's the Ebay listing:

http://cgi.ebay.com/full-Carbon-mat...intage_Sports_Memorabilia&hash=item27b69d09e0


----------



## ultraman6970

Hmmm looks a lot like the rosetti and the Pedal force...


----------



## Carabo

That frame is also being sold as Somec Diablo and De Rosa R838.

There was one posted earlier in this thread http://forums.roadbikereview.com/showpost.php?p=3060447&postcount=746

I have one on order, should arrive in a week or two


----------



## ultraman6970

The somec paint job is beautiful, and the De rosa well it is a de rosa. It is interesting tho, do you know the model for that frame? how it rides and stuff?

For me it is the same as the pedal force frame sr3 or something like that.

Thanks.


edit: looks like a FM239????


----------



## kk5551

I have been debating this frame as well. It seems to have a good geometry for shorter legs/longer torso as has been discussed quite a bit on this forum. The 54.5cm has a TT of 58.3cm. I have been debating this bike as well as the FM015, but the 55cm sees a very slight decrease in the TT. My measurement are below. Any thoughts guys? Recommendations from Competitivecyclist are below:

Measurements
-------------------------------------------
Inseam: 32
Trunk: 27
Forearm: 14
Arm: 29
Thigh: 23.75
Lower Leg: 21.5
Sternal Notch: 58
Total Body Height: 71

The Competitive Fit (cm)
-------------------------------------------
Seat tube range c-c: 52.6 - 53.1
Seat tube range c-t: 54.3 - 54.8
Top tube length: 57.3 - 57.7 
Stem Length: 12.2 - 12.8
BB-Saddle Position: 71.8 - 73.8
Saddle-Handlebar: 56.7 - 57.3
Saddle Setback: 4.5 - 4.9








skygodmatt said:


> ....been lurking this thread for the last couple of hours.
> 
> Has anyone built this carbon frame? It's BB30 about $500. I was thinking of getting it and putting it to the test. I was wondering if the comfort is adequate?
> 
> Here's the Ebay listing:
> 
> http://cgi.ebay.com/full-Carbon-mat...intage_Sports_Memorabilia&hash=item27b69d09e0


----------



## WheresWaldo

prendrefeu said:


> Haha touché. I came here, originally, to see how people were doing with their generics. I actually have one myself, but a model that is no longer available. Comes in at ~920g for a 53, and I love it. I'm mostly on the WW forum though, it's more 'tech' oriented. The accompanying fork was 315g, uncut. Not too bad for a generic, eh?


 I have read many of your posts on WW as I read a lot of threads there, but don't post much. I was hoping that an unpainted raw UD frame would come in lower, but alas, it wasn't even as low as my PF RS.


> Really? I'm happily surprised! Most CF 'generics' are quoted in coming in anywhere between 240-280g. Can you provide a link/source for yours? What's the drop & reach?


 Here is the link to the bars: http://archteks.en.alibaba.com/product/269697040-200840906/Carbon_Handlebar_Road_TR_HB024CF.html, the specs say 200g but the 44 I ordered cam in at 190 g on the nose.


----------



## rafalwspin

Hello! Can someone help me, please, what is about this frame size? Only one difference bitween size 54 http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Brand-New-Ful...60695217183?pt=Road_Bikes&hash=item3cb2a5541f and 56 http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=260695217174 is in seat tube lenght. Is it ok? End what is the symbol for this frame?


----------



## ultraman6970

I would aks the geometry tables to the guy if i was you, because clearly something is weird. Usually the guys use a template and change the data but in this case u have 2 frames with a different size that have the same TT lenght, makes no sense. If it helps 55.6 sounds more like the TT for the 56 one.

This model is popular in the threads, look for it more than somebody posted the geometry or have bought it from ebay (maybe).


----------



## kelso012

I guess this may not belong here but I bought one of these frames and built it up with my shimano 105 9spd group as a starter. Is it possible to use a 10 spd BB and crankset with this. Thanks


----------



## cfred84

kelso012 said:


> I guess this may not belong here but I bought one of these frames and built it up with my shimano 105 9spd group as a starter. Is it possible to use a 10 spd BB and crankset with this. Thanks


From my limited knowledge of bikes, u can fit a normal crankset onto a BB30 frame using a convertor
but NOT e other way round.. Forgive me if I'm wrong.
Cheers!!


----------



## asad137

cfred84 said:


> From my limited knowledge of bikes, u can fit a normal crankset onto a BB30 frame using a convertor
> but NOT e other way round.. Forgive me if I'm wrong.


While that is true, he wasn't asking about BB30  He was asking about using a 10-speed crank and bottom bracket with an otherwise 9-speed setup. I think that it will work, but I'm no expert so I will defer to someone who knows better than I.

Asad


----------



## ultraman6970

It will work just fine., the distance between the chainrings is almost the same since the mid 80s and probably since before.

The only thing is that with shimano u have to keep the shimano FD, with campagnolo u can put whatever FD u want, it will shift right no matter what.


----------



## ClarkinHawaii

rafalwspin said:


> Hello! Can someone help me, please, what is about this frame size? Only one difference bitween size 54 https://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Brand-New-Fu...60695217183?pt=Road_Bikes&hash=item3cb2a5541f and 56 https://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=260695217174 is in seat tube lenght. Is it ok? End what is the symbol for this frame?


This appears to be the FM001 from Hongfu. If so, here is geometry from their site:

https://www.hongfu-bikes.com/Upload/Pic/2009719195249274.jpg


----------



## jobubr

kelso012 said:


> I guess this may not belong here but I bought one of these frames and built it up with my shimano 105 9spd group as a starter. Is it possible to use a 10 spd BB and crankset with this. Thanks


yes, this should have been asked in the components and wrenching forum, but yes you can run a 10 speed crank with a 9 speed setup IF you also run a 10 speed chain and correctly set your fd limits.


----------



## santacruzsl52

jobubr said:


> yes, this should have been asked in the components and wrenching forum, but yes you can run a 10 speed crank with a 9 speed setup IF you also run a 10 speed chain and correctly set your fd limits.



It will work. I run a 9 speed shimano with 10 speed fsa crankset. Works just fine with a 9 speed chain. You will be ok. No need to change anything.


----------



## santacruzsl52

*FM015 awaiting arrival.*

Bought a FM015 from mina a few days ago. said it shipped on the 18th of november. Ill be sure to post pictures along with weights of frame and fork. Any idea for average shipping time to Portland,OR? i have read 5-7 days for some people but EMS does not give a estimated arrival (that i can find at least...)

Anyways, ill update when it is recieved!


----------



## AndyNZ

Hi. Have been a long time lurker through these threads and I'm in the process of working out if one of these frames meet my needs. Can someone give me some real world experience as to how the FM015 measures up against the labeled options. I'm looking for a race bike so compared against a Giant TCR Advanced composite, Trek Madone, Scott Addict etc. Do these frames compare for stiffness and speed. I want something I can get a low aero position on, is stiff, can sprint on and races well. Are there other good race options other than the FM015? Thanks in advance for the replies, I'm finding it difficult to get a clear picture of all the info before I decide what to do.


----------



## cynan

*Stack and FM015*

I am wondering if anyone can advise me on whether or not the stack height on the 58cm FM015 is sufficient?

My current bike has about a 59.5 to 60cm stack height, which is fairly high to begin with. In addition I have about 2.5 cm of spacers underneath the stem, making the effective stack somewhere around 62cm.

From the geometry diagrams, I have estimated that the stack height on a 58cm FM015 to be about 57.5cm. Therefore, to get the height of my current setup, I'm looking at about 4.5 to 5cm of spacers - which is generally considered to be undesirable.

The high stack height is not just because I am super unflexible - I also have a relatively large inseam to reach ratio. I'm comfortable on a 56 to 57cm effective top tube, yet have a BB to saddle top length of about 81cm (inseam of about 91cm).

While I could probably drop the stack height a cm or so and still be comfortable (it's on the high end of comfort on my current set up) I think I'd still be pushing things with the FM015. 

Maybe the answer is a 58cm FM028 with a shorter stem? However, I'd prefer the stiffness of the FM015 and don't care that it's a bit on the heavy side.

Should I try my luck with the FM015?


----------



## independentmind

santacruzsl52 said:


> Bought a FM015 from mina a few days ago. said it shipped on the 18th of november. Ill be sure to post pictures along with weights of frame and fork. Any idea for average shipping time to Portland,OR? i have read 5-7 days for some people but EMS does not give a estimated arrival (that i can find at least...)
> 
> Anyways, ill update when it is recieved!


Average shipping time with EMS to North America is about 2 weeks or less (on average). I was surprised when I received the notice on my door.


----------



## alexb618

anyone got the recommended torque for the FM015 ISP clamp??


----------



## tthome

alexb618 said:


> anyone got the recommended torque for the FM015 ISP clamp??


I used Finish Line Fiber Grip on my FM001, FM015 frames with NON ISP, but general rule of thumb is 4nm, but no more than 5nm. See if that works. The Fiber Grip typically needs less torque to grip the necesary parts. I think I used 4nm using Fiber Grip.


----------



## ColoRoadie

independentmind said:


> Average shipping time with EMS to North America is about 2 weeks or less (on average). I was surprised when I received the notice on my door.


5 days....china to denver on my frame


----------



## CyKlo

*DengFu Delivers - and Quick*



independentmind said:


> Average shipping time with EMS to North America is about 2 weeks or less (on average). I was surprised when I received the notice on my door.


I ordered my FMO15 from Mina on Nov 11th. It took a few days to have them do the matte black paint finish and ship. I requested it be painted dark- flat- black- even- and consistent as to not see any weave through the finish. I must say it arrived exactly as requested.

Mina shipped to me last Wed (6 days later - including weekend) and it arrived on Saturday - 3 to 4 days from China to my door. That is incredible! 8 days start to finish and it looks awesome. It was packaged well and no observed damage to the box or frame/fork.

I communicated with her numerous times over the course of several weeks before pulling the trigger. She even sent me a few pictures of my frame after it was painted/finished and before she shipped it so I could confirm satisfaction before hand (assuming it was really mine

I have been very impressed with her in particular and the process as a whole. Highly recommended!

Brazillian decals on the way next. Marco Pollo has been just as awesome with communication and effort!

Won't build up until the Spring or a little here and there through the winter. Skiing now. Will post pics when possible.


----------



## missinglink

Hi guys,

Just wanted to post an update on my FM028 I purchased from tony @ great kean.

I've had the frame for a couple months now, have put in over a thousand miles as well as raced a 40k TT on it. Overall very happy with everything so far. For comparison I also own a 2009 Specialized Transition.

If anyone has questions feel free to hit me up.

Mike


----------



## MrPerkles

can anybody recommend a decent carbon seat clamp,I ordered one but it got lost in the post


----------



## swaz

Every day I hang out for my Wiggle package to arrive at work... still nothing 

I have built it up with parts laying around but it doesn't look great. When they 6700 parts arrive I will do a mini photo shoot with it 

Ive taken it for 2 spins around the block and the first thing I noticed is the lack of road shock compared to my Kinesis frame. So keen for these parts to arrive so I can make good use of it!

In hind sight I should have thought about the build more before buying the frame and made sure parts were ordered before the frame. Have spent about 4 weeks waiting on parts!! I can't complain though... it looks awesome and more importantly fits me REALLY well.


----------



## ultraman6970

MrPerkles apparently the best one in the market in my opinion is the thomson one. Not made of carbon but the seatpost wont slip down.

Cheers


----------



## MrPerkles

ultraman6970 said:


> MrPerkles apparently the best one in the market in my opinion is the thomson one. Not made of carbon but the seatpost wont slip down.
> 
> Cheers


Ta where can I buy one of them online please ?


----------



## aikendrum

MrPerkles said:


> Ta where can I buy one of them online please ?


http://www.wiggle.co.uk/thomson-seat-collar/


----------



## snippy

MrPerkles said:


> can anybody recommend a decent carbon seat clamp,I ordered one but it got lost in the post


Not carbon, this is what I got, it's lighter and cheaper: http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=220446000117&ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT


----------



## Gall

Excuse my ignorance....

I want my frame to look like the finish of a Stealth Bomber. What finish should I request?

Thanks!

Gall


----------



## cynan

Gall said:


> Excuse my ignorance....
> 
> I want my frame to look like the finish of a Stealth Bomber. What finish should I request?
> 
> Thanks!
> 
> Gall


Probably UD (unidirectional finish) with matte black (paint)


----------



## swaz

Is anyone lighty sanding their seat post to prevent slip?


----------



## WheresWaldo

MrPerkles said:


> can anybody recommend a decent carbon seat clamp,I ordered one but it got lost in the post


I would recommend the Woodman seat post clamp. It is lighter than those listed, holds well and is a bit cheaper then Thomson. Also available in multiple anodized colors.

I have used the following clamps. Thomson, Salsa Lip Lock, KCNC, Omni-Racer as well as the Woodman. Best bang for the buck was the Woodman. After all it all it only needs to hold a seat post steady with 4nm - 5nm of torque.


----------



## WheresWaldo

swaz said:


> Is anyone lighty sanding their seat post to prevent slip?


Rather than sanding use carbon paste or if you are resourceful, you can use hair spray to make the surface a little less slick. _*Do Not Sand!*_


----------



## independentmind

swaz said:


> Is anyone lighty sanding their seat post to prevent slip?


+1 on carbon paste ONLY

And now on a unrelated note, I'll Paypal anyone here $20 if they post a pic of themselves on here wearing a pair of these http://cgi.ebay.com/NEW-Cycling-winter-leg-warmers-Garter-design-/120482731162?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item1c0d54949a must be riding bike at the time and full kit. :thumbsup:


----------



## zender

independentmind said:


> +1 on carbon paste ONLY
> 
> And now on a unrelated note, I'll Paypal anyone here $20 if they post a pic of themselves on here wearing a pair of these http://cgi.ebay.com/NEW-Cycling-winter-leg-warmers-Garter-design-/120482731162?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item1c0d54949a must be riding bike at the time and full kit. :thumbsup:


Wow those are hot. They should make an whole kit with the rest of the outfit. Or, maybe not.


----------



## asherstash1

ah the steady drip of parts arriving has begun, only stem, tyres, skewers and bar tape so far, the exciting bits are all on planes! shes gonna be more than a little bit fit...


----------



## ultraman6970

snippy said:


> Not carbon, this is what I got, it's lighter and cheaper: http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=220446000117&ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT


I have like 3 different brands moving around and the only one that have worked fine all the time has been a thomson, well the thomson comes in 3 or 4 diameters also. Very convenient.


----------



## skygodmatt

so many posts here......time for Chinese Frames Version 4.0 soon.


----------



## cynan

gospastic said:


> i just checked this calculator...i think it's off. it's not giving me the correct outputs.


Regarding the stack/reach calculator at cheapcarbonframes.com, it was recently pointed out that it may not be taking fork rake into account leading to an overestimation of stack values by about 12mm and a slight underestimation of reach (a few mm) - as the reach calculation uses stack calculated first.

See comments at bottom of page here:

http://cheapcarbonframes.com/2010/08/frame-sizing-calculator/


----------



## independentmind

skygodmatt said:


> so many posts here......time for Chinese Frames Version 4.0 soon.


I think a subforum is in order, this is way out of control. Half the time I don't bother to post questions because they get lost in the mess


----------



## swaz

WheresWaldo said:


> Rather than sanding use carbon paste or if you are resourceful, you can use hair spray to make the surface a little less slick. _*Do Not Sand!*_


Why no sanding? Not even wet and dry 1000 grit?


----------



## alexb618

independentmind said:


> I think a subforum is in order, this is way out of control. Half the time I don't bother to post questions because they get lost in the mess


good idea imo


----------



## swaz

alexb618 said:


> good idea imo


Yep good idea
So we need some categories such as
freight/wait time
vendors/suppliers/contact details etc.
parts and builds and painting and price
geometry
gallery


----------



## MrPerkles

swaz said:


> Yep good idea
> So we need some categories such as
> freight/wait time
> vendors/suppliers/contact details etc.
> parts and builds and painting and price
> geometry
> gallery


readers wives


----------



## asherstash1

meh, if i start putting her on here she might demand as much time and money as the bike gets...
if that sub forum does start though you will still need a sticky in bikes, frame, forks telling newbs where to go, funk me even the "how to open thread" thread doesnt catch em all



independentmind said:


> I think a subforum is in order, this is way out of control. Half the time I don't bother to post questions because they get lost in the mess


personally i quite enjoy read 4/5 convos at once, and lot of questions ahve been answered b4 i think, y many dont get answered now, although we are still waitng for someone to speak up about the 101's ride still, mine still probably 3 weeks a month off finished and perks isnt building his till next year so if youve got one tell us!


----------



## ms6073

independentmind said:


> And now on a unrelated note, I'll Paypal anyone here $20 if they post a pic of themselves on here wearing a pair of these NEW-Cycling-winter-leg-warmers-Garter-design


 :aureola: 

I am thinking these would be great on the legs under the skinsuit at CX races:


----------



## beaglesdadi

Safeway said:


> Guys, I need your help.
> 
> 
> It looks like the 58cm FM015 and FM032 are basically identical to the 60cm H1 Madone. The 58cm FM028 is more like the H2 fit. All in all, the frames are all very similar and can be adjusted via spacers and stems.
> 
> So, think the FM032 from Yishun is the way to go? Does anyone have this bike built up? I am planning on racing it, so the aggressive fit is top and stiffness is definitely important.
> 
> 1) Am I doing stack/reach right?
> 2) FM015 or FM032 from Yishun for racing?
> 3) If I go the ISP route, should I be concerned about durability or chopping off too much? (Ride it, too tall, shave, ride it, too tall, shave, repeat until right?)
> 4) That looks like an over sized seat post, so who makes a super light topper?


I'm looking at this same bike. I'm curious to hear the reviews :idea: 

Matt


----------



## CyKlo

*"Stealth" finish*



Gall said:


> Excuse my ignorance....
> 
> I want my frame to look like the finish of a Stealth Bomber. What finish should I request?
> 
> Thanks!
> 
> Gall


Gall,
IMO - you need to be very specific here. I was really particular for the same reason - I wanted my frame to be dark black, consistent and not be able to see ANY weave up close or not. Just my taste. I got the FMO15 from Mina at DengFu. I made her send me a photo of their own frame painted that way to make sure we were on the same page. I wanted BLACK because I have seen some on here that say "matte black" that look lighter than what I wanted and that show the weave up close which I didn't want. This pic is what she sent and that is exactly what I got. I ordered "3K weave - dark - consistent - flat matte black - with no shine" IMO the most "stealthy option you can get......


----------



## BlackDoggystyle

CyKlo said:


> Gall,
> IMO - you need to be very specific here. I was really particular for the same reason - I wanted my frame to be dark black, consistent and not be able to see ANY weave up close or not. Just my taste. I got the FMO15 from Mina at DengFu. I made her send me a photo of their own frame painted that way to make sure we were on the same page. I wanted BLACK because I have seen some on here that say "matte black" that look lighter than what I wanted and that show the weave up close which I didn't want. This pic is what she sent and that is exactly what I got. I ordered "3K weave - dark - consistent - flat matte black - with no shine" IMO the most "stealthy option you can get......


(closup) pics?


----------



## MrPerkles

I would buy a tin of rustoleum matt black and do it yourself,its a perfect velvety matt,very forgiving to use and also dries very hard giving a great finish


----------



## zender

Regarding the subforum, I had previously suggested that a locked, stickied Chinese frame FAQ be posted with common answers to the usual questions. I do realize this is considerable work for the forum admins, but it would be nice to see it at least started.


----------



## jobubr

amazing that there has been no activity here the past two days. do you all use this forum soley at work?


----------



## jnotv

*Has anyone seen the RFM106 from GreatKeen?*

I have been looking and stumbled upon this frame, any one familiar with it or have any input?










Thanks
John


----------



## independentmind

jobubr said:


> amazing that there has been no activity here the past two days. do you all use this forum soley at work?


LOL...I'm actually at the office right now. :blush2: 

Honestly I haven't had much going on worth posting. I've started my build this week now that the parts have all arrived and that I've ordered a pair of wheels. The frame has actually sat here for months though.

But, I do have a question...My frame (resembling pedal force TT2) came with some very thin clear plastic tubes (about 5 inches long), are these supposed to be inserted into the frame to assist the brake/shift cables? This is a TT frame with internal routing. I am assuming yes; I've never built up a bike with internal cable routing.

I'm taking pics of the build process, maybe I'll post those after.


----------



## independentmind

MrPerkles said:


> I would buy a tin of rustoleum matt black and do it yourself,its a perfect velvety matt,very forgiving to use and also dries very hard giving a great finish



Wouldn't it eventually flake off ? Then again, I'm afraid to even put a clear coat over any new decals on my frame, so what do I know.

PS: I've seen your work on flickr, nice stuff. I'm thinking you need to go into the frame painting business


----------



## The_AwesomeSauce_Show

jnotv said:


> I have been looking and stumbled upon this frame, any one familiar with it or have any input?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Thanks
> John


Wow! Beautiful frame.:thumbsup: I wanna know how much is that


----------



## providince

jnotv said:


> I have been looking and stumbled upon this frame, any one familiar with it or have any input?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Thanks
> John



I have a couple of emails out. I have been waiting the pull the trigger on a frame and I think this is the one. If it is BB30 and they can paint Matte black, I will have one soon.


----------



## PBrooks

sorry dp


----------



## PBrooks

*37mm isp topper*

no one seems to have the answer yet on the isp topper. Woodman but it's smaller and requires sanding down the isp, oh and can't seem to find it anywhere for sale. Tune but no stock and have to use a shim, which is not available. MCFK but it's 250 and still have to use a shim. Custom but who does that and how much? I hope we find something, I have seen where some people suggest making a slot in the isp and reverse the application of a 34.9 seatpost, but that sounds risky. Anyone solve the problems yet?


----------



## MX304

Wow, just finished two days of reading all three threads and my head is still spinning. I think I am going to go with a FM015 for a new single speed build. That is if I can figure out who to order it from.


----------



## skygodmatt

The two reliable sources from Alibaba.com are Denfu ( Mina ) and Sunday Trade ( Jessie) 
Be careful though because that's a scammer site too. They both take paypal.

or

You can have a look at Ebay Seller : carbonzone 
His name is Echo.Ebay is guaranteed. Here are his auctions:
http://shop.ebay.com/carbonzone/m.html?_dmd=1&_ipg=50&_sop=12&_rdc=1
He has the FM015 but he calls it an RB003. Also he has the FM028 ( RB002) which is less aggressive. 

I've been looking at one myself but am waiting for a BB30 one.


----------



## MX304

skygodmatt said:


> The two reliable sources from Alibaba.com are Denfu ( Mina ) and Sunday Trade ( Jessie)
> Be careful though because that's a scammer site too. They both take paypal.
> 
> or
> 
> You can have a look at Ebay Seller : carbonzone
> His name is Echo.Ebay is guaranteed. Here are his auctions:
> http://shop.ebay.com/carbonzone/m.html?_dmd=1&_ipg=50&_sop=12&_rdc=1
> He has the FM015 but he calls it an RB003. Also he has the FM028 ( RB002) which is less aggressive.
> 
> I've been looking at one myself but am waiting for a BB30 one.


Thanks for the info. I have conversed a little with Miracle Trade. Is there a way to contact Carbonzone directly outside of E-Bay? I really don't like doing business with e-bay due to their outrageous fees. I am also wanting a custom paint job as well, so I'd like to deal directly with the mfg.


----------



## snippy

Send message through ebay and ask for their email / website.

I believe:

carbonzone = http://www.greatkeen.com.cn/ (and http://dengfu.en.alibaba.com/ too I think)
anybaby8088 = http://www.hongfu-bikes.com/ (Specifically Jenny @ hong-fu) or http://www.e-hongfu-bikes.com/
bicycle_999 = http://www.flyxii.com/


----------



## MrPerkles

independentmind said:


> Wouldn't it eventually flake off ? Then again, I'm afraid to even put a clear coat over any new decals on my frame, so what do I know.
> 
> PS: I've seen your work on flickr, nice stuff. I'm thinking you need to go into the frame painting business


I used to build steel frames and own a paint shop so had a bit of practice  
Ive done a few beater mtbs with it and it dries very hard


----------



## hoppa79

Not really a fan of sloped top tube and was wondering: Of all the Chinese carbon frames, which model do you think has the most straight top tube?


----------



## jnotv

*rfm106 pricing.*



The_AwesomeSauce_Show said:


> Wow! Beautiful frame.:thumbsup: I wanna know how much is that


I received this email in reference to the rfm106, really thinking about pulling the trigger.
 



Dear john:

Please check the price as follow:
Frame 280usd 
frame+fork 330usd
painting 60usd
headsets 15usd
shipping cost 75usd

thanks


----------



## MX304

jnotv said:


> I received this email in reference to the rfm106, really thinking about pulling the trigger.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Dear john:
> 
> Please check the price as follow:
> Frame 280usd
> frame+fork 330usd
> painting 60usd
> headsets 15usd
> shipping cost 75usd
> 
> thanks


Hmmm. I had my mind set on an FM015 but after seeing that frame I think I changed my mind. Which vendor did you get the pricing info from?

Edit: Never mind, I found it.


----------



## tarzan13

anybaby8088 is Jenny @ hong-fu



snippy said:


> Send message through ebay and ask for their email / website.
> 
> I believe:
> 
> carbonzone = http://www.greatkeen.com.cn/
> anybaby8088 = http://dengfu.en.alibaba.com/
> bicycle_999 = http://www.flyxii.com/


----------



## WheresWaldo

MX304 said:


> Thanks for the info. I have conversed a little with Miracle Trade. Is there a way to contact Carbonzone directly outside of E-Bay? I really don't like doing business with e-bay due to their outrageous fees. I am also wanting a custom paint job as well, so I'd like to deal directly with the mfg.


Please note that after much research HongFu and DengFu are simply trading companies or agents for the actual manufacturer. For the FM015, FM001, FM004 and FM006 the manufacturer is Hzflybike. Their website is http://www.hzflybike.com/enindex.asp. They do not sell direct and all orders have minimum requirements. Frames are 50 piece minimum.


----------



## philippec

WheresWaldo said:


> Please note that after much research HongFu and DengFu are simply trading companies or agents for the actual manufacturer. For the FM015, FM001, FM004 and FM006 the manufacturer is Hzflybike. Their website is http://www.hzflybike.com/enindex.asp. They do not sell direct and all orders have minimum requirements. Frames are 50 piece minimum.


No, HongFu makes their own bikes... someone from this forum ,has actually been to the factory and met Jenny in person: http://forums.roadbikereview.com/showpost.php?p=3038783&postcount=49


----------



## MX304

I got a quote from Greatkeen for an FM106 painted in the red black and white like the one on their site but without the lettering as follows. I am waiting to find out what lead time will be.

frame+fork+painting no letter 390usd BB68!
seatpost 30usd
headsets 20usd
stem 48usd
handlebar 48usd

shipping cost 80usd


----------



## MX304

Sorry, double post.


----------



## snippy

tarzan13 said:


> anybaby8088 is Jenny @ hong-fu


Thanks! I fixed my post above: http://forums.roadbikereview.com/showpost.php?p=3102533&postcount=1278

Any other merchants / websites to add?


----------



## tarzan13

Hi 

Suggest you have a look here to avoid duplication of information. http://cheapcarbonframes.com/2010/08/carbon-bike-frame-seller-catalog/

thanks




snippy said:


> Thanks! I fixed my post above: http://forums.roadbikereview.com/showpost.php?p=3102533&postcount=1278
> 
> Any other merchants / websites to add?


----------



## jnotv

*Headset quality*



jnotv said:


> I received this email in reference to the rfm106, really thinking about pulling the trigger.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Dear john:
> 
> Please check the price as follow:
> Frame 280usd
> frame+fork 330usd
> painting 60usd
> headsets 15usd
> shipping cost 75usd
> 
> thanks



Anyone know about headset quality, Is the adage "You get what you pay for" 

ACCURATE?

Or should I just purchase separate.

Thanks
John


----------



## independentmind

Well, I have a FM-012 frame (tt frame) and I kept the headset that came with it, I just didn't want to go through all the work of trying to find a headset that fit. Mind you, there are stories of people getting the wrong headset from the sellers.

I didn't have any issues with mine, but it didn't however come with any instructions whatsoever. It is a "Necco" headset with an internal compressor for my carbon steerer. I checked the website and couldn't find any info for mine, so I said a prayer, used common sense when I installed it, and the fork is yet to fall off.

When/if you purchase the frame, make sure you request they send you a derailleur hanger, most of these frames use these, the sellers sometimes forget to include them in the box though  don't just assume all the small items you need for the frame will just come with it, mention them in your email.


----------



## ultraman6970

Just in case anybody willing to sell his brand new Chinese frame because of lack of funds or any other reason?


----------



## alexb618

jnotv said:


> Anyone know about headset quality, Is the adage "You get what you pay for"
> 
> ACCURATE?
> 
> Or should I just purchase separate.
> 
> Thanks
> John


i bought the headset that everyone is buying to match the FM015

the top cap didnt fit so i replaced that with one i already had... i would recommend buying the headsets that come with the frames, but accept that you might need to swap the top cap over with something else.


----------



## zender

You install the headset according to Campagnolo hiddenset instructions or the FSA equivalent. The only part that needs to be pressed in is the crown race- PVC pipe and mallet, Park tool, LBS - take your pick. The top and bottom bearings just pop into the headtube. If they don't fit or require pounding, either they sent the wrong headset or some of the resin needs to be cleaned off the inside of the headtube. 

I've bought two frames so far, the hanger was installed on both, but it doesn't hurt to be safe and make sure they're sending you one.


I still don't get why people buy a *spare *derailleur hanger. I can't imagine a crash on one of these frames where the (forged?) aluminum hanger snaps in half but its attachment point (and the rest of the frame for that matter) is good to go. I realize this was a possibility back in the day on a beefy aluminum Mt bike frame especially with a specially designed breakaway hanger where the rear derailleur gets caught on a big rock or branch. Or, are people worried that they'll strip the thread on the rear derailleur mounting hole? That would be shameful. :blush2:


----------



## independentmind

I just discovered the hard way that my TT frame will not accept Tektro r725 brakes.

And I just sold a set of new Tektro calipers... :mad2:


----------



## FTR

zender said:


> I still don't get why people buy a *spare *derailleur hanger. I can't imagine a crash on one of these frames where the (forged?) aluminum hanger snaps in half but its attachment point (and the rest of the frame for that matter) is good to go. I realize this was a possibility back in the day on a beefy aluminum Mt bike frame especially with a specially designed breakaway hanger where the rear derailleur gets caught on a big rock or branch. Or, are people worried that they'll strip the thread on the rear derailleur mounting hole? That would be shameful. :blush2:


I have bent 3 derailleur hangers on my carbon fibre Santa Cruz Tallboy. They are made soft enough that they will bend even if the bike just falls over on its side.
Cannot say that these Chinese frames will have that good a hanger but you never know.


----------



## NBarten

*For Sale: HongFu FM001*

I've got a HONGFU FM001 Built up with SRAM Force for sale. It's got HED rims and DT 240's hubs. I bought it last spring and never had much chance to ride it because I got injured. Rival brakes are the only spot I skimped. I've got about 200 miles on it. Really not used much. It's tuned perfectly. You're more than welcome to come check it out if you're in the Denver area. I'm healthy now, but not much into road riding anymore. The LOOK KEO Sprint pedals are included. The bike weighs 15lbs and 4oz without pedals. 

*I'm asking $2000. Make me an offer.*

56cm top tube

1" remaining on steer tube for sizing


----------



## justind01

*Rfm106*



jnotv said:


> I have been looking and stumbled upon this frame, any one familiar with it or have any input?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Thanks
> John


These are apparently knock offs (though it is possible greatkeenbike.com is OEM'ing) of a bike sold by a Spanish company called Mendiz. 

http://www.bicismendiz.com/castellano/galeria.asp?idbici=8&idseccion=157

I got this back from Ms. Hu when asking for price/leadtime on a matte black frame/fork:

Dear justin:
Please check the price as follow:
frame+fork matt black 360usd
headset 20usd
SHIPPING COST 80USD
SIZE 54CM WE HAVE STOCK OF PAINTED, IF FOR MATT COLOR I NEED CHECK!

I asked her to check, but haven't heard back yet on matte black availability. I really like this frame (it'd be a new build for my partner) but I am hesitant to do business with greatkeenbike.com because of their spotty rep.

Justin


----------



## asad137

NBarten said:


> I've got a HONGFU FM001 Built up with SRAM Force for sale. It's got HED rims and DT 240's hubs.


You might want to post the size.

Asad


----------



## vis8892

Does anyone know the front derailleur clamp size for the FM015?


----------



## MX304

Is there a thread on here anywhere discussing different paint schemes etc? I am looking for some ideas so I can get a frame ordered with custom paint. I am looking for something that is overall white with silver and charcoal grey accents. I have an idea in my head but I can barely draw a straight line with a ruler so just putting it on paper is not the easiest thing in the word for me to do.


----------



## Jetmugg

Regarding paint schemes, when I inquired about custom paint for the frame I'm buying for my wife, Jenny @ Hongfu sent me a bunch of sample designs to choose from. Since I'm not any kind of artist myself, I selected a design which includes a main color, outlining in a second color, and a good bit of exposed carbon fiber. I haven't received the frame yet, but have been very impressed with the communications via Jenny.

SteveM.


----------



## karlo

vis8892 said:


> Does anyone know the front derailleur clamp size for the FM015?


34.9mm (35mm)


----------



## MX304

Jetmugg said:


> Regarding paint schemes, when I inquired about custom paint for the frame I'm buying for my wife, Jenny @ Hongfu sent me a bunch of sample designs to choose from. Since I'm not any kind of artist myself, I selected a design which includes a main color, outlining in a second color, and a good bit of exposed carbon fiber. I haven't received the frame yet, but have been very impressed with the communications via Jenny.
> 
> SteveM.


I had tried that, but what they sent really wasn't what I was looking for. I finally dug around in Google images enough for find what I was looking for. It's a Pinarello (sp?) scheme that I think will look great with a color change. I'm going to have them change the red stripes to a metallic gun metal grey and leve the silver as is. No lettering of course.


----------



## WheresWaldo

vis8892 said:


> Does anyone know the front derailleur clamp size for the FM015?


 34.9 

Too late


----------



## csteele2144

What size seatpost would I need for the FM15?


----------



## karlo

csteele2144 said:


> What size seatpost would I need for the FM15?


clamp: 34.9mm
post: 31.6mm


----------



## skyline377

Been waiting for me blue RFM101 it was siting in chinese customs all last week. hope it will be here at the end of the week so I can start building it this weekend.


2010-11-20 21:19:00 GUANGZHOU Posting 
　 2010-11-21 01:00:00 GUANGZHOU Despatch from Sorting Center 
　 2010-11-21 15:00:00 GUANGZHOU Arrival at Sorting Center 
　 2010-11-21 16:00:00 GUANGZHOU Handed over to Customs 
　 2010-11-29 13:33:00 GUANGZHOU Released from Customs 
　 2010-11-29 14:03:00 GUANGZHOU Despatch from Sorting Center


----------



## 1805078

I have just purchaseed a MC001 - SPL from Miracle trade and very happy with the build. I had it painted matte black.

However, I have bought the incorrect size and now I am looking at off loading it. Unfortunately I have already cut the seat tube however, I believe that you can cut it down further and insert a seat post.

I am in Australia....all that would be interested, send me an email and I can send picture.

cheers


----------



## 1805078

*Miracle trade - frame and fork to sell*

I have just purchaseed a MC001 - SPL from Miracle trade and very happy with the build. I had it painted matte black.

However, I have bought the incorrect size and now I am looking at off loading it. Unfortunately I have already cut the seat tube however, I believe that you can cut it down further and insert a seat post.

I am in Australia....all that would be interested, send me an email and I can send picture.

cheers


----------



## FTR

You need to use the classifieds and pay for an ad.


----------



## 1805078

FTR said:


> You need to use the classifieds and pay for an ad.



Appologises....I will do that now.....new to this forum

thank you


----------



## 1805078

Has anyone used 'Alero Bikes' before....Quite like this one they have listed on their website
http://www.alerobikes.com/crossfire.html
They only accept wire transfer.....don't like this method of payment


----------



## MX304

I have been talking to Carbonzone for a few days and just pulled the trigger on a custom painted frame, seat post, stem and bars. Echo has been very easy to deal with and the language barrier was almost non existent. After going back and forth between a few different frames, I finally went with the FM001. It seemed to be the most common one out there that people have had good luck with. He said it would be 8-10 business days to get it painted and ready to ship. I will update as soon as it gets in may hands. So far I am happy with their level of service, and his e-bay feedback is 100% so I think I am pretty safe.


----------



## kristofpoppe

independentmind said:


> I just discovered the hard way that my TT frame will not accept Tektro r725 brakes.
> 
> And I just sold a set of new Tektro calipers... :mad2:


Is this the TT-frame FM-028 ?

I have this frame and rear brake must be fitted at the bottom bracket.
Tried with a SRAM force, but no luck.
Just ordered a Tektro 725 set, but convinced that the front brake will not fit at the backside of the fork.


----------



## independentmind

kristofpoppe said:


> Is this the TT-frame FM-028 ?
> 
> I have this frame and rear brake must be fitted at the bottom bracket.
> Tried with a SRAM force, but no luck.
> Just ordered a Tektro 725 set, but convinced that the front brake will not fit at the backside of the fork.


It's not the FM-028, I can't find my model # right now, but here's a pic from when I was mocking it up (those are generic Tektros on there). 

I almost got the FM-028 but decided against it, the only brake that will work on your frame is the Tektro 725 (rear), I don't exactly recall the shape of the fork that comes with that frame, but I'm pretty sure the Tektro 725 (front) will not fit because of the shape of the rear part of the fork. The front caliper will NOT work on the front side of any fork. It requires that the shape of the surface be flat.

<a href="https://www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected]/5173011650/" title="DSC03219 by independent.mind, on Flickr"><img src="https://farm5.static.flickr.com/4131/5173011650_18e5558d7a.jpg" width="500" height="385" alt="DSC03219" /></a>


----------



## stubek

independentmind said:


> It's not the FM-028, I can't find my model # right now, but here's a pic from when I was mocking it up (those are generic Tektros on there).
> 
> I almost got the FM-028 but decided against it, the only brake that will work on your frame is the Tektro 725 (rear), I don't exactly recall the shape of the fork that comes with that frame, but I'm pretty sure the Tektro 725 (front) will not fit because of the shape of the rear part of the fork. The front caliper will NOT work on the front side of any fork. It requires that the shape of the surface be flat.
> 
> <a href="https://www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected]/5173011650/" title="DSC03219 by independent.mind, on Flickr"><img src="https://farm5.static.flickr.com/4131/5173011650_18e5558d7a.jpg" width="500" height="385" alt="DSC03219" /></a>


There is another rear brake that will fit. Its called an egg or something. Several people on here (near the end of version 2 of this thread) have used it. The maker is in San Jose California.


----------



## ms6073

The other brake to which you are referring is the Simkins Design Egg Brake  which is what I am using with our DengFu TT frames (uses behind the bottom bracket brake mount). While I have not tried it, the rear brake that is supplied with the 10/11 Giant Trinity Advanced SL will also work but may be difficult to source as it is a Giant proprietary part.


----------



## kristofpoppe

ms6073 said:


> The other brake to which you are referring is the Simkins Design Egg Brake  which is what I am using with our DengFu TT frames (uses behind the bottom bracket brake mount). While I have not tried it, the rear brake that is supplied with the 10/11 Giant Trinity Advanced SL will also work but may be difficult to source as it is a Giant proprietary part.


Also Oval Concepts have a brake that should fit at the bottom bracket.


----------



## CyKlo

stubek said:


> There is another rear brake that will fit. Its called an egg or something. Several people on here (near the end of version 2 of this thread) have used it. The maker is in San Jose California.


Stubek, I like that bike hanger you have there. Can you tell me how/where to get one? Thanks.


----------



## stubek

CyKlo said:


> Stubek, I like that bike hanger you have there. Can you tell me how/where to get one? Thanks.


not my bike or bike hanger, someone else had posted that pic, but I have seen a similar hanger at the container store, performance bike, and home depot. They are about $20 I think and I have seen some that fold flat against the wall when no bike on it and some that do not fold flat.


----------



## independentmind

CyKlo said:


> Stubek, I like that bike hanger you have there. Can you tell me how/where to get one? Thanks.


You cab get the hanger right here: http://www.mec.ca/Products/product_detail.jsp?PRODUCT%3C%3Eprd_id=845524442620855&FOLDER%3C%3Efolder_id=2534374302692829 it folds up flat when you're not using it. I usually hang the Caad9 on it but I've been using it to work on the new frame. I have it drilled into concrete and it hasn't fallen off the wall yet after 1 year


----------



## independentmind

ms6073 said:


> The other brake to which you are referring is the Simkins Design Egg Brake  which is what I am using with our DengFu TT frames (uses behind the bottom bracket brake mount). While I have not tried it, the rear brake that is supplied with the 10/11 Giant Trinity Advanced SL will also work but may be difficult to source as it is a Giant proprietary part.


The Simkins would be my #1 choice if I was a pro builder or sponsored rider, alas I am neither  maybe if I break top 10 next tri season I'll get some attention :thumbsup: 

The price tag on those is a little high for me, it's money I can put into wheels or swim training, but I can't deny the quality.


----------



## skyline377

*It's finally here!!!!*

Waited for around a month very happy with the frame.


----------



## mrbubbles

^^^^

Interesting, what size is that?


----------



## Vee

skyline377 said:


> Waited for around a month very happy with the frame.


Total price out the door on that? Who did you order from?

Thanks


----------



## skyline377

it's their 56cm with a 55cm top tube. can't waiting to build it up!!! $536 OTD frame fork headset paypal fees and shipping


----------



## swaz

skyline377 said:


> Waited for around a month very happy with the frame.


I'm such a Pino nuff nuff that I couldn't tell you if it was a fake or not if you didn't say so


----------



## mrbubbles

Checked out greatkeen.










Man, that's a hot paintjob.


----------



## swaz

*Ok here it is*

I've spent about 5 weeks waiting for all parts to arrive.
Details:
Frame, fork, seat post, head set- Deng Fu sports.
Wheels: Mavic Ksyriums
Brakes- Cervelo (Tektro) will change to Shimano when the post xmas sales rolls around.
Stem and bars- Deda
Running gear- Ultegra 6700

Ive only put 50km on it so far with my old groupo of Ultegra 6600 and 105. I went for the 53cm frame which has a 52.9 TT. I did a competitive cyclist online fit and it gave me a TT range of 53-53.5cm. I've only ever had 55cm+ TT but I went with the 53 for something different. The goods arrived in about 5 days and was well packed and in perfect condition.
Mina a DengFu was very patient as I had a lot of questions. I would contact her on MSN as you get answers right away without having to wait.
I made the mistake of not ordering everything I needed all in one hit from Wiggle. I am not sure if Deng Fu sell FD clamps, but if you get an 015 and they do, order one! This held up my order big time!
I have a Chinese TT frame with a brand name (Azzurri) and the cable routing is a nightmare! So I was worried that this would be the same. I've routed all cables twice now and it was a piece of piss!

Anyway, I will echo everyone elses view that these frames are fantastic. As I mentioned I have only done 50km on mine but it was along my usual commute and I have done it for the past 12 months on my alloy/carbon Kinesis frame. My 015 kills it in every way. It was like riding with big plush tires it soaked up that much shock but was still mega stiff out of corners/hills. I am 85kg 187 lbs and I rode over some rough road without it snapping so I am confident.

I cut out my own stickers as I have a sticker cutter. The RALA are the initials of my family and the L. Oxley is my grand mother who died a few months back. She was an outdoors person and a main motivation to get off my arse and do things. M. Reay on the other fork is another family member.

Will move the position of the STI's tomorrow as I don't like where they are.


----------



## LarsEjaas

mrbubbles said:


> Checked out greatkeen.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Man, that's a hot paintjob.


Yeah... If you are from Sweeden :mad2:  DOOOH!


----------



## aplitt86

skyline377 said:


> Been waiting for me blue RFM101 it was siting in chinese customs all last week. hope it will be here at the end of the week so I can start building it this weekend.
> 
> 
> 2010-11-20 21:19:00 GUANGZHOU Posting
> 2010-11-21 01:00:00 GUANGZHOU Despatch from Sorting Center
> 2010-11-21 15:00:00 GUANGZHOU Arrival at Sorting Center
> 2010-11-21 16:00:00 GUANGZHOU Handed over to Customs
> 2010-11-29 13:33:00 GUANGZHOU Released from Customs
> 2010-11-29 14:03:00 GUANGZHOU Despatch from Sorting Center


Looks like our frames left China on the same day...still waiting for mine, hoping it will be at my house when I get home from work.

Your paint job looks spectacular btw :thumbsup:


----------



## Jetmugg

Just got an email from Jenny @ Hongfu... The FM-022 Hongfu "Project One" Cyclocross bike frame/fork/headset/stem/bars/seatpost/bottle cages/spacers should be ready to ship next week. 

I'm really hoping to have it in my hands before Christmas - it's a gift for my wife.

SteveM.


----------



## Vee

skyline377 said:


> it's their 56cm with a 55cm top tube. can't waiting to build it up!!! $536 OTD frame fork headset paypal fees and shipping


Where from?


----------



## skyline377

aplitt86 said:


> Looks like our frames left China on the same day...still waiting for mine, hoping it will be at my house when I get home from work.
> 
> Your paint job looks spectacular btw :thumbsup:



Thanks did you get the same paint job???



Vee said:


> Where from?


http://www.greatkeenbike.com/main/home/cp_detail.php?id=64&nowmenuid=12&cpath=0009:&catid=9


----------



## aplitt86

skyline377 said:


> Thanks did you get the same paint job???


Nope, I also ordered the FM028 from DengFu - http://forums.roadbikereview.com/showpost.php?p=3081790&postcount=1092


----------



## masterjunx

*Bike love*

On October 14th, I purchased a FR-008 from https://www.flyxii.com, paid through paypal and they did not charge me any sort of paypal fee. I got the frame, fork, headset, spacers, 2 cages, and seat post for $400 shipped to Ohio and it arrived on October 19th. They were awesome to work with and would highly recommend them. They forgot to include a piece of the headset and ended up shipping it out separately no charge very quickly afterwards. I waited for a bit to order my decals from the Brazilian dude that Karlo recommended which is why it has taken me so long to put up a post but those arrived this week and my bike is now ready. MARS are the initials of my 2 daughters, son (born less than 2 weeks ago) and wife, 6 is the atomic number of carbon. 

I am coming from a Giant OCR1 that was my starter bike, and I do not have a lot of money so I had to switch everything over to my new bike (no double, had to stick with the triple I had for now and the old wheelset). The Giant was a Large and was huge on me, I am a fairly short guy, this new bike is a 53 and fits much better. It rides so much better than the Giant.

Enough with the talk though, here are some pictures.























































_Edit: So my buddy pointed out for the first time what MARS spells backwards, I never even noticed or thought about that before but I guess I know what I have to upgrade to..._


----------



## MX304

Great looking bike!


----------



## beaglesdadi

masterjunx said:


> On October 14th, I purchased a FR-008 from http://www.flyxii.com, paid through paypal and they did not charge me any sort of paypal fee. I got the frame, fork, headset, spacers, 2 cages, and seat post for $400 shipped to Ohio and it arrived on October 19th. They were awesome to work with and would highly recommend them..[/I]


I think I just found my new frame :yesnod: Yours looks great with the color scheme and decals. Did they offer a warranty at all? Thanks, Matt


----------



## masterjunx

beaglesdadi said:


> I think I just found my new frame :yesnod: Yours looks great with the color scheme and decals. Did they offer a warranty at all? Thanks, Matt


Thank you, I just assumed there would be no warranty however I did just email them to check.


----------



## Italianrider76

I think that's the first pic of that actual frame built up as a complete bike. Looks great!


----------



## Jetmugg

masterjunx said:


> Thank you, I just assumed there would be no warranty however I did just email them to check.



Looks great - who did the decals for you? I'm in need of a custom set of decals.

Steve.


----------



## Italianrider76

I think that's the first pic of that actual frame built up as a complete bike. Looks great!


----------



## Radioactive Man

Here is my FM028/RB002 ISP just need some C35 or C50 Dura Ace wheels to really set it off! It weighs in at 7.2kg as seen not bad! I got mine from Ebay seller carbonzone he was fantastic had this bike painted matt black finish in less than 4 days and it arrived very timely. He provides great service via email and I intend to get some "louder" frames very soon :thumbsup: Cheers

View attachment 217734


----------



## athletic91

Radioactive Man said:


> Here is my FM028/RB002 ISP just need some C35 or C50 Dura Ace wheels to really set it off! It weighs in at 7.2kg as seen not bad! I got mine from Ebay seller carbonzone he was fantastic had this bike painted matt black finish in less than 4 days and it arrived very timely. He provides great service via email and I intend to get some "louder" frames very soon :thumbsup: Cheers
> 
> View attachment 217734



what size is that? could you also take shots of the chainstays and downtube?
Im hoping they are a beefy profile for stiffness


----------



## aikendrum

*CALLING ALL GREATKEENBIKE RFM10x BUILDERS*

CALLING ALL GREATKEENBIKE RFM10x BUILDERS PINA ET AL OUT THERE......
JUST CURIOUS HOW THE GREATKEENBIKE RFM SERIES ARE HOLDING OUT -THERE HAS BEEN PLENTY OF AWE REGARDING THE PAINT BUT LITTLE FEEDBACK ABOUT THE HANDLING / PROBLEMS IF ANY - RSVP - Cheers


----------



## Crawf

athletic91 said:


> what size is that?


I'd hazard a guess at 54cm like mine...


----------



## athletic91

Are you guys gonna use the BB30 sleeve adaptor or a bearing adaptor? if you intend to use back a normal crank


----------



## asherstash1

applitt88 that looks pretty sick, lusting over that frame on ebizzle was what got me onto this whole subject!
aikendrum - lol has been asked loads of times and no ever responds, guy called horseface is only person we know of whos built it up yet, he said it was good ride but then hasnt posted since. 

ive got nearly everything for my 101 build, deda stem and tape, conti tyres, kmc x10sl chain (gold), 5700 series 105 cassette, gold hex skewers, 2x gold bottle cages, gold seatpost clamp, gold spacers and the crowning glory... 2010 force sti's crank and derailluers... but with fashion victim gold circus-monkey brakes...  
im a **** and so's my bike, soon as crank arrives can get it built up.
oh yeah - cables, what would people recommend, was gonna go with the jagwire black and gold but not the best are they?


----------



## config

aikendrum said:


> CALLING ALL GREATKEENBIKE RFM10x BUILDERS PINA ET AL OUT THERE......
> JUST CURIOUS HOW THE GREATKEENBIKE RFM SERIES ARE HOLDING OUT -THERE HAS BEEN PLENTY OF AWE REGARDING THE PAINT BUT LITTLE FEEDBACK ABOUT THE HANDLING / PROBLEMS IF ANY - RSVP - Cheers


Dude,
Why all the caps??? I'm not too impressed with the handling of the RFM101. It's too twitchy for my taste. My old bike is much more stable especially descending. Not sure if I have it dialed in properly yet since I'm having headset issues. I'm considering purchasing a brand name headset to see if it fixes my problem (steering is not smooth/buttery).


----------



## justind01

config said:


> Dude,
> Why all the caps??? I'm not too impressed with the handling of the RFM101. It's too twitchy for my taste. My old bike is much more stable especially descending. Not sure if I have it dialed in properly yet since I'm having headset issues. I'm considering purchasing a brand name headset to see if it fixes my problem (steering is not smooth/buttery).


Do you have pics of your complete bike online anywhere? I'd like to see one fully built up in the real world before I pull the trigger. Do you have the Pinarello clone? 

Thanks for the info.


----------



## independentmind

masterjunx said:


> On October 14th, I purchased a FR-008 from http://www.flyxii.com, paid through paypal and they did not charge me any sort of paypal fee. I got the frame, fork, headset, spacers, 2 cages, and seat post for $400 shipped to Ohio and it arrived on October 19th. They were awesome to work with and would highly recommend them. They forgot to include a piece of the headset and ended up shipping it out separately no charge very quickly afterwards. I waited for a bit to order my decals from the Brazilian dude that Karlo recommended which is why it has taken me so long to put up a post but those arrived this week and my bike is now ready. MARS are the initials of my 2 daughters, son (born less than 2 weeks ago) and wife, 6 is the atomic number of carbon.
> 
> I am coming from a Giant OCR1 that was my starter bike, and I do not have a lot of money so I had to switch everything over to my new bike (no double, had to stick with the triple I had for now and the old wheelset). The Giant was a Large and was huge on me, I am a fairly short guy, this new bike is a 53 and fits much better. It rides so much better than the Giant.
> 
> Enough with the talk though, here are some pictures.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> _Edit: So my buddy pointed out for the first time what MARS spells backwards, I never even noticed or thought about that before but I guess I know what I have to upgrade to..._


Oi, I would recognize that crankset anywhere, it came stock on my first roadie too (Devinci 5.1). Keep an eye out for deals on wiggle, chainreaction, etc. I picked up a 105 double crankset for under $100 last summer (now residing on my CAAD9). Ebay is also good, I found a still packaged FSA double (energy megaexo i think?) for about $100 shipped that's going on my tri bike.

But in the end, there's really nothing wrong with a triple. I got rid of mine because I was having issues with the crankarm bolt.


----------



## Radioactive Man

athletic91 said:


> what size is that? could you also take shots of the chainstays and downtube?
> Im hoping they are a beefy profile for stiffness


50cm actually I am only a small dude!


----------



## aikendrum

config said:


> Dude,
> Why all the caps??? I'm not too impressed with the handling of the RFM101. It's too twitchy for my taste. My old bike is much more stable especially descending. Not sure if I have it dialed in properly yet since I'm having headset issues. I'm considering purchasing a brand name headset to see if it fixes my problem (steering is not smooth/buttery).


No beef with the caps - I just started writing, it was late and couldn't be asked to un-cap them :blush2: 
Interesting comments regarding the twitchy, un smooth and buttery feel of the RFM101 - what brand of headset came with your bike? Does the fork flex - ie when you place a huge force (sprint) on your handlebars do the front brakes touch the wheel? How many spacers are you using?


----------



## ckibbe

*FM015 Size 53*

I have a FM015 size 53 that I recently built up. I like the frame, but think I might have bought one size too big, it's close. I am thinking about ordering the 51 and see if I like that better. I'd like to see if there would be much demand for someone buying the used 53from me. I is 3K matte finish, and is in almost new condition (1000 miles maybe). I'd of course send pictures. The steerer is still long enough for about 25-30 mm of spacers. Obviously the buyer would have the convienence of getting it shipped from here in the states, and it has already been built up so no risk of the frame being jacked up.

What's a reasonable price, and would anyone here be interested?


----------



## FTR

ckibbe said:


> I have a FM015 size 53 that I recently built up. I like the frame, but think I might have bought one size too big, it's close. I am thinking about ordering the 51 and see if I like that better. I'd like to see if there would be much demand for someone buying the used 53from me. I is 3K matte finish, and is in almost new condition (1000 miles maybe). I'd of course send pictures. The steerer is still long enough for about 25-30 mm of spacers. Obviously the buyer would have the convienence of getting it shipped from here in the states, and it has already been built up so no risk of the frame being jacked up.
> 
> What's a reasonable price, and would anyone here be interested?


Why is it that so many RBR members dont know the forum rules??
Look up at the top of the page and you will see the classifieds. Pay for an ad and then you can SPAM the boards.


----------



## mrbubbles

I went through the geometry provided by Greatkeen and the actual Pinarello Prince, they are identical (seat tube length and ttt are measured differently, but they're identical).


----------



## MrPerkles

That Mars bike looks fantastic


----------



## config

justind01 said:


> Do you have pics of your complete bike online anywhere? I'd like to see one fully built up in the real world before I pull the trigger. Do you have the Pinarello clone?
> 
> Thanks for the info.


Here's my build. It came in at 15.2 lbs w/ pedals and everything you see. The only thing they messed up on the frame is the top-tube cable stops. They placed it on the wrong side of the frame. It doesn't bother me since it doesn't affect me riding the bike.



aikendrum said:


> No beef with the caps - I just started writing, it was late and couldn't be asked to un-cap them
> Interesting comments regarding the twitchy, un smooth and buttery feel of the RFM101 - what brand of headset came with your bike? Does the fork flex - ie when you place a huge force (sprint) on your handlebars do the front brakes touch the wheel? How many spacers are you using?



As for the handling and headset issue goes. I don't notice any flex, I'm only 160 lbs but I have my pads set pretty close (approx 3mm) and have 3 cm of spacers. I bought the headset from Greatkeen. It's funny, now all my riding buddies are planning on getting one.


----------



## MrPerkles

Config that looks awesome ,im going to get mine built now after seeing yours
Well done :thumbsup:


----------



## ckibbe

FTR said:


> Why is it that so many RBR members dont know the forum rules??
> Look up at the top of the page and you will see the classifieds. Pay for an ad and then you can SPAM the boards.


It's not an ad, you can tell because there is neither a price nor an offer of sale. I am simply trying to gage interest for a used version of this frame and what a reasonable price might be since there aren't very many used versions on ebay. I figured since this thread is full of people who have both bought and might be interested in buying such a frame it might be a good source for opinions,

Why so many forum members feel the need to be board nannies is beyond me, if you don't like the post move on.


----------



## FTR

ckibbe said:


> It's not an ad, you can tell because there is neither a price nor an offer of sale. I am simply trying to gage interest for a used version of this frame and what a reasonable price might be since there aren't very many used versions on ebay. I figured since this thread is full of people who have both bought and might be interested in buying such a frame it might be a good source for opinions,
> 
> Why so many forum members feel the need to be board nannies is beyond me, if you don't like the post move on.


I never called it an ad.
I called it spam.
It is an offer to sell.
Pay your advertisement fee and then you can do that.


----------



## Jetmugg

Back to the MARS6 bike for a moment - who did the decals for this frame, they look very good.

SteveM


----------



## mrbubbles

config said:


> Here's my build. It came in at 15.2 lbs w/ pedals and everything you see. The only thing they messed up on the frame is the top-tube cable stops. They placed it on the wrong side of the frame. It doesn't bother me since it doesn't affect me riding the bike.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> As for the handling and headset issue goes. I don't notice any flex, I'm only 160 lbs but I have my pads set pretty close (approx 3mm) and have 3 cm of spacers. I bought the headset from Greatkeen. It's funny, now all my riding buddies are planning on getting one.


Not bad. Is that a size 485mm? How tall are you and what is the length from the center of bb to the top of the saddle? Just wanna get a measurement to see how it is currently to mine, might pull a trigger on this.


----------



## nickl75

masterjunx said:


>


On wide top-tubes these topside decals look great.

Are the edges of the toptube rounded? I find sharp ones tend to hurt my thighs when I lean against them if I'm trackstanding at traffic lights.


----------



## ckibbe

FTR said:


> I never called it an ad.
> I called it spam.
> It is an offer to sell.
> Pay your advertisement fee and then you can do that.


How can it be an offer to sell when I didn't offer it for sale, nor list an asking price?

Whatever, get a life.


----------



## cokex

Hey guys .. newbie here..

Just bought the RFM106 from http://www.greatkeenbike.com/

$702 shipped
Frame,fork,paint,1piece bars,seat post

First road bike build for me and I've been reading up as much as I can, but I can't seem to figure out what a BB really is. Like which do I need ? am I supposed to request the size on the frame ? I also see that you can buy a SRAM BB30 ? and something about an adapter to use different sizes ?? Very confused..

if you can link me to some good reads I'd appreciate it.. 

thanks...

-c


----------



## Vee

O_O 702 shipped? is that american dollars? Sure seems like quite a lot for a chinese frame. I see most people spending 500ish. How in the world did you come to 700?


----------



## cokex

Vee said:


> O_O 702 shipped? is that american dollars? Sure seems like quite a lot for a chinese frame. I see most people spending 500ish. How in the world did you come to 700?



because of the paint and the 1 piece handle bars RHB004 is $140, would've been cheaper if i went with the other one.

RFM106 XL 58CM Paint Mendiz - $400
RHB004 440*110 NESS - $140
headset - $20
SEATPOST FSA 27.2. - $30
Delivery - $85
paypal - $27

seems about right to me ..


----------



## cokex

Wikipedia ftw .. at least now I know what everything is .. and I believe I will be getting BSA English tread... http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bottom_bracket



cokex said:


> Hey guys .. newbie here..
> 
> Just bought the RFM106 from http://www.greatkeenbike.com/
> 
> $702 shipped
> Frame,fork,paint,1piece bars,seat post
> 
> First road bike build for me and I've been reading up as much as I can, but I can't seem to figure out what a BB really is. Like which do I need ? am I supposed to request the size on the frame ? I also see that you can buy a SRAM BB30 ? and something about an adapter to use different sizes ?? Very confused..
> 
> if you can link me to some good reads I'd appreciate it..
> 
> thanks...
> 
> -c


----------



## skygodmatt

FTR and CKIBBE:
It's solved.

He's a newbie so it's all good. He didn't know you can't mention anything for sale until you post in the classifieds. Now he does. 

This frame thread blows my mind. I saw one of these up close and took a quick test ride. 
I was totally blown away when the owner told me he paid $475 shipped. The bike rode just fine and weighed in at sub 16 pounds. 

This thread is going to go forever.


----------



## karlo

Jetmugg said:


> Back to the MARS6 bike for a moment - who did the decals for this frame, they look very good.
> 
> SteveM


Here is the info I posted way back at the beginning of this thread:

http://forums.roadbikereview.com/showpost.php?p=2993515&postcount=79



http://gabeadz.com/karlo/DengFu/


----------



## philischen

Anybody has a good source of a 5 spoke front wheel for TT bikes???


This one:


----------



## Jetmugg

karlo said:


> Here is the info I posted way back at the beginning of this thread:
> 
> http://forums.roadbikereview.com/showpost.php?p=2993515&postcount=79
> 
> 
> 
> http://gabeadz.com/karlo/DengFu/



Thanks - I have contacted Marco in Brasil. I was just trying to find out who did the MARS decals. Was it Marco?

SteveM.


----------



## masterjunx

beaglesdadi said:


> I think I just found my new frame :yesnod: Yours looks great with the color scheme and decals. Did they offer a warranty at all? Thanks, Matt


They do have a 8 month warranty on the frame.


----------



## suparuki

+1 on the MARS6 bike. That looks sick! I love the sticker layout especially the one on the top tube. Cant wait to get mine finished and up here too! :thumbsup:


----------



## aplitt86

I received my FM028 size 54 from DengFu this past Saturday. When I ordered I asked for an extra der hanger and Tony said he would throw it in at no charge. Not only did I receive the extra hanger, but he sent a seat post and collar as well!!! I don't have any parts to build it yet, but it will be built with Campy Chorus 11s by spring time hopefully. Please excuse the terrible picture quality, we just moved into the house and the camera is still packed away so I had to use my cell phone.


----------



## masterjunx

Jetmugg said:


> Thanks - I have contacted Marco in Brasil. I was just trying to find out who did the MARS decals. Was it Marco?
> 
> SteveM.


Yes it was Marco, sorry, had a busy weekend. I designed the lettering and colors, he designed the front badge for me.


----------



## vladvm

*My Chinarello!*

This weekend, I ordered the carbon Pinarello Prince frame geometry in 3k finish from maniac_bicycle, ([email protected]), paid total of $500US via paypal for frame, fork, headset, seatpost, seapost clamp, cable stops, extra derailler hanger, (really nice) handlebar, 2 carbon bottle cages and shipping charges. 

Let's see how long EMS shipping takes and I will give my review of the frame before the build and also once built up. My plan is to put Ultegra group and DuraAce STI and SL SSC wheelset on it.

The city is covered in snow now, but I have underground parking at work so I'm thinking of taking the bike there on the weekend to just see how the ride feels, there are a few steep ramps to test the climbing as well. 

Here's the transaction info below:
Saturday - Paid via paypal
Monday - Received tracking number. 
Your item was collected(SHENZHEN) at 2010-12-06 20:33:00


----------



## karlo

Jetmugg said:


> Thanks - I have contacted Marco in Brasil. I was just trying to find out who did the MARS decals. Was it Marco?
> 
> SteveM.



http://forums.roadbikereview.com/showpost.php?p=3111500&postcount=1337

"I waited for a bit to order my decals from the Brazilian dude that Karlo recommended which is why it has taken me so long to put up a post but those arrived this week and my bike is now ready"


----------



## cfred84

aplitt86 said:


> I received my FM028 size 54 from DengFu this past Saturday. When I ordered I asked for an extra der hanger and Tony said he would throw it in at no charge. Not only did I receive the extra hanger, but he sent a seat post and collar as well!!! I don't have any parts to build it yet, but it will be built with Campy Chorus 11s by spring time hopefully. Please excuse the terrible picture quality, we just moved into the house and the camera is still packed away so I had to use my cell phone.


Sweet!! Would you have a weight on it?
M contemplating the FM015 and FM028 for my next build.
The FM028 has more sharp lines and beefier seat stays as compared to the FM015

Built up a FM015 for my girl recently and m impressed by it!


----------



## aplitt86

cfred84 said:


> Sweet!! Would you have a weight on it?
> M contemplating the FM015 and FM028 for my next build.
> The FM028 has more sharp lines and beefier seat stays as compared to the FM015
> 
> Built up a FM015 for my girl recently and m impressed by it!


About 1100 grams give or take a few...I only weighed the frame because scale is not too accurate and difficult to get a reading, need to get a new one.


----------



## vladvm

The Chinese elves are working overtime... 

Timing Site Status 
　 2010-12-06 20:33:00 SHENZHEN Posting 
　 2010-12-06 21:44:00 SHENZHEN Despatch from Sorting Center 
　 2010-12-06 21:57:18 SHENZHEN Arrival at Sorting Center 
　 2010-12-06 22:37:21 SHENZHEN Despatch from Sorting Center


----------



## beaglesdadi

masterjunx said:


> They do have a 8 month warranty on the frame.


That's better than nothing right. They only have that frame in a 52cm and don't plan on getting any other sizes soon...I need a 54/55cm :cryin: 

Oh well, the search for a new frame continues......

Matt


----------



## zender

I was in a large group ride this weekend, pulling next to a woman on a Pinarello with the classic wavy fork and stays. A year ago, I would have thought that she must have dropped some serious coin on that bike. It's funny, but now, every time I see one, the thought crosses my mind if it was even real.


----------



## Vee

zender said:


> I was in a large group ride this weekend, pulling next to a woman on a Pinarello with the classic wavy fork and stays. A year ago, I would have thought that she must have dropped some serious coin on that bike. It's funny, but now, every time I see one, the thought crosses my mind if it was even real.


Same.


----------



## rruff

ckibbe said:


> I have a FM015 size 53 that I recently built up. I like the frame, but think I might have bought one size too big, it's close.


Most likely you just have it set up wrong. Unless you have a 80mm or less stem, and it is horizontal with no spacers, then your frame isn't too big.


----------



## cokex

Vee said:


> Same.


same here.. even tho I did buy a copy paint scheme.. 

I'm not exactly sure how I'm going to feel about it, but I think I won't care too much. 

My friends and I laugh about it cause I'll be the "poser" on the "4-6k" chinese copy, we'll see how I can handle it, and I'll admit it if someone asks.

I figure, I'm a newb, this bike is probably way too much for me to use fully, but in 6months-1yr and I'm still riding, this bike will be perfect.

-b


----------



## zender

Vee said:


> Same.


There are subtle differences, to be sure, but unless you know what to look for (rear brake cable routing), this is very convincing. Top one is "real"


----------



## BernyMac

The bottom pic seems like the older production run with the misplaced brake cable routing. A Spanish forum had a few of those bad batches and seems to have been rectified.


----------



## Vee

zender said:


> There are subtle differences, to be sure, but unless you know what to look for (rear brake cable routing), this is very convincing. Top one is "real"


I think that cable routing was a mistake, though. I have seen other pictures in this thread with the knockoff painted to match and all with the cable routing on the proper side.


----------



## vladvm

wow, side by side, you can easily spot the difference in the pain scheme and fonts. But for my build, will not bother getting pinarello labelling. I do however like the wavy accents. I will personalize the labels.


----------



## cokex

paint on the front fork is way diff, should be easy to spot now.


----------



## mrbubbles

These things cost $400 + paint and shipping from Greatkeen. The "real" Pinarello with Italian paintjob cost $4500. I'd rather spend $530 than shell out $4000 more for the "real" one. 

The geometry is identical, but the ones coming out of Greatkeen is missing the "P" decal emblem on the headtube and the seattube right under the tube, they're painted in instead. Although some real versions of Pinarello have the "P" decal painted.

As for the fork painting. They're not all the same.


----------



## vladvm

I'd rather pay chinese frame than weak italian frame.


----------



## config

mrbubbles said:


> Not bad. Is that a size 485mm? How tall are you and what is the length from the center of bb to the top of the saddle? Just wanna get a measurement to see how it is currently to mine, might pull a trigger on this.


I'm only 5' 6". The frame is actually 46.5 cm sloping. I have 27" (68.5 cm) from top of saddle to BB center.


----------



## cokex

Their paint schemes are not that bad either, almost "professional" like, and they'll paint whatever you like... hopefully I'll be saying the same when I get it.

I'm not creative enough to design my own, but I do know what I like looking at and the more creative the better .. 

Beats just putting stickers on it ..


----------



## mrbubbles

vladvm said:


> I'd rather pay chinese frame than weak italian frame.





















Ouch. Breaking a $4000 frame most certainly hurts.




config said:


> I'm only 5' 6". The frame is actually 46.5 cm sloping. I have 27" (68.5 cm) from top of saddle to BB center.


On greatkeenbike.com, the listed size they have are 485mm, 540mm, and 560mm, I'm guessing it's measured differently.


----------



## independentmind

Seeing the exploded PIna frames just reminded me. I have a TT frame (China special, I posted it on here and am still working on it, just working on the fit now and waiting on some parts from probikekit and wheels from Yieshun).

Anyhow, I was on the trainer with it this morning and I fell over with the bike still attached to it. Epic fail, but, the frame survived, not a single scratch on it, nada.

How I managed to fall over on a mag trainer is beyond me though.


----------



## ColoRoadie

Are the painted frames out of dengfu and greatkeen clear coated or can you feel the ridges where the colors meet up?


----------



## Flyfinn

Hi Guys,

Long time lurker first time poster.
I pulled the trigger today on a Prince clone for my partner from Ms Hu of http://www.greatkeenbike.com/ apparently delivery is in 15-20 days but time will tell.

RFM101 Size: C-T 485mm(top 499.2/515mm) 

Final cost was: (in USD)
Frame: $430
Headset: $25
Bottle Cage: $13
Delivery (to Australia) $75
Paypal Fee: $21.70
*Total: $565*

Getting it painted pink in this scheme (just replace the red with pink) and I will combine it with a full Ultegra Gruppo.

View attachment 217887


----------



## independentmind

Seeing the exploded PIna frames just reminded me. I have a TT frame (China special, I posted it on here and am still working on it, just working on the fit now and waiting on some parts from probikekit and wheels from Yieshun).

Anyhow, I was on the trainer with it this morning and I fell over with the bike still attached to it. Epic fail, but, the frame survived, not a single scratch on it, nada. So yes, these frames aren't as fragile as some people think, mind you hitting a curb or a car at speed is a whole other story, not a whole lot of frames could take that (ie: the frames above)

How I managed to fall over on a mag trainer is beyond me though.


----------



## config

ColoRoadie said:


> Are the painted frames out of dengfu and greatkeen clear coated or can you feel the ridges where the colors meet up?


Mine is smooth. The paint is pretty good. It's not what I would expect from the real thing but it looks nice. I tell people up front, it's a Chinese frame and most of them say they want one.


----------



## zender

vladvm said:


> wow, side by side, you can easily spot the difference in the pain scheme and fonts. But for my build, will not bother getting pinarello labelling. I do however like the wavy accents. I will personalize the labels.


ROFL, ya, greatkeen needs to click the _italic_ button in their word processor before sending the PINARELLO text to the printer


----------



## yurl

Pinarello are becoming the bike equivalent of the LV handbag. Anyone can have one and you'll just assume that its a fake.


----------



## Flyfinn

hehehe very true - in this case given it will be pink (and non pinarello paint scheme) I suspect there's no doubting it's fake


----------



## JGF62

aplitt86 said:


> I received my FM028 size 54 from DengFu this past Saturday. When I ordered I asked for an extra der hanger and Tony said he would throw it in at no charge. Not only did I receive the extra hanger, but he sent a seat post and collar as well!!! I don't have any parts to build it yet, but it will be built with Campy Chorus 11s by spring time hopefully. Please excuse the terrible picture quality, we just moved into the house and the camera is still packed away so I had to use my cell phone.


Where is your front derailleur hanger?
I see a dent in the seat tube but nowhere to attach it, should it not be a braze on?


----------



## scirocco

zender said:


> There are subtle differences, to be sure, but unless you know what to look for (rear brake cable routing), this is very convincing. Top one is "real"


Subtle differences? Are you kidding? The fake has got a sloping top tube. When did a real Prince ever have a top tube that looks like that?


----------



## Italianrider76

44cm and 46cm genuine Pinarello Princes also have a sloping top tube. The one above looks like one of these smaller sizes.


----------



## config

http://www.pinarello.com/ita/prince_carbon_436.php

Like the bottom post said, they do have sloping sizes. To be completely accurate, the real ones have internal cable routing for the rear brake. I think they made a mistake on mine and placed it on the wrong side. I didn't care and didn't make it a big deal. It was worth the risk and I had to satisfy my curiosity. Others I see are on the correct side.


----------



## philischen

JGF62 said:


> Where is your front derailleur hanger?
> I see a dent in the seat tube but nowhere to attach it, should it not be a braze on?



FM015 and FM028 are for clamp on FDs. The dent is just a spare place that the FD cage doesn't hit the frame...


----------



## tuningclio06

.hello, here I live in France I'd like to purchase this part, but here is my question, is what someone has already had a customs control is if so is there a risk of I do confiscate + almond, is his view that the Pinarello copy? sportingly


----------



## paterberg

Ordered a RB003 (FM015) 55cm ISP with threaded BB from carbonzone on ebay. Dealt with Echo - excellent English and all queries replied to very quickly. I paid about £340 which included a headset and shipping to the UK. Opted for the 3K finish with clear coat and I've ordered some decals from Marco Pollo in Brazil. :thumbsup:


----------



## aplitt86

ColoRoadie said:


> Are the painted frames out of dengfu and greatkeen clear coated or can you feel the ridges where the colors meet up?


On my frame, you can feel the ridges...I didn't really expect much more from a $55 paint job. I guess I could clear coat it myself, but I don't have the time or patience.



philischen said:


> FM015 and FM028 are for clamp on FDs. The dent is just a spare place that the FD cage doesn't hit the frame...


Thanks, was going to reply with this.


----------



## Jetmugg

What kind of turn-around times have you folks gotten from Marco in Brasil? 

I do some business in Brasil with my "Day Job", and response times always seem excessively long by USA standards.

SteveM.


----------



## shimagnolo

here's mine..FM015 size 53 3K clear coat finish..shipped from China to HK in just 1 day after payment confirmation..























































building it with SRAM components..hope to complete the build within this week..


----------



## skyline377

Almost done with my build just wondering to all who finish building their RFM101 what size of bolt do you guys use for the rear brake?? I am using this very long one right now but I feel like I might crack the frame if I tighte it harder


----------



## vladvm

skyline377 said:


> Almost done with my build just wondering to all who finish building their RFM101 what size of bolt do you guys use for the rear brake?? I am using this very long one right now but I feel like I might crack the frame if I tighte it harder


I think there is the risk of cracking the paint if you tighten it more than necessary. As long as it is snug and does not easily sway left-right you are ok.

If it does sway after applying the brakes, it might be because your brake cable housing length is too short/too long. I would start adjusting that first, cable housings are cheap.

I like your bike! I ordered the same frame two days ago, package is in transit so just waiting to receive them. No paint for me, but I will order the pinarello sticker's but replace the texts.


----------



## MX304

I am going to be setting my FM001 as a single speed ride, and need a wheel / hub opinion. I can get a really good deal on a set of wheels with a flip flop rear track hub, but only in 100mm. I think these frames are set up for 130mm. I know I can add spacers on each side to make it fit, but I am unsure I can get my chain line correct. Anyone have any thoughts?


----------



## zender

scirocco said:


> Subtle differences? Are you kidding? The fake has got a sloping top tube. When did a real Prince ever have a top tube that looks like that?


Frame sizes are different. Others have confirmed the geometry is the same, size-for-size. Some of the paint differences in the seatstay and front triangle can be related to frame size too, but not the fork and chainstay I suspect.


----------



## vladvm

zender said:


> Frame sizes are different. Others have confirmed the geometry is the same, size-for-size. Some of the paint differences in the seatstay and front triangle can be related to frame size too, but not the fork and chainstay I suspect.


Yes, the geometry is the same. 

i really like the fact that the budget bike can give the ride of a $5000+ bike, and the best thing about this is that you can actually personalize the bike and not be a rolling billboard.


----------



## CHRAM

*1st post here - Chinese product experiences*

Another guy who joined just for this thread. Love the custom Chinese builds. I hope I don't catch any flak for not exactly being frame-specific here, but it seems that the regulars on this thread do have some experience ordering factory direct from China and that's who I'm looking to address. 
I'm hoping to get a real answer from someone who has ACTUALLY purchased hardware or group sets from Chinese manufacturers. When I attempt Google searches, I can only come up with horror stories of bike unrelated products (guy orders computers, gets a box of pencils) or smart a$$ remarks like "...You get what you pay for."
My inspiration for all of this is the limited edition yellow SRAM RED groupo that would look stunning with the Black/Yellow/Red paint scheme I've come up with for my planned Chinese carbon frameset. I've seen these group sets sell for between $1400.00-1800.00 on ebay. If you go to alibaba and search for "SRAM Yellow", several manufacturers (Elaine Industries, "Ms. juicy lee" at Hangzhou Mingjing Co., Ltd.). They often display the same images that the eBay sellers are using, so I'm not sure who's ripping who off... but the Chinese group sets vary in price from $260-$600. If the copy is really that good, are the eBay retailers making $1000+ a sale? I've read their buyer feedback and everyone is extremely pleased with the products. 
I am also curious about what the "international warranty" that the Chinese manufacturers are offering is all about.

My father ran a machine shop here in the US (before all the manufacturing went to China) and it was commonplace for a company to release technical drawings and exact tolerances to several companies to let them "tool up" and compete for best pricing & volume. typically, everyone made the same parts to spec, but the lowest price or fastest turnaround would win the contract. It's quite feasible that any of these factories are churning out the exact same product that SRAM sells here in the states.
Opinions on Chinese group sets?
sorry for the ramble...


----------



## Vee

skyline377 said:


> Almost done with my build just wondering to all who finish building their RFM101 what size of bolt do you guys use for the rear brake?? I am using this very long one right now but I feel like I might crack the frame if I tighte it harder


Are there no torque specs on brakes? I was under the impression that every component came with torque specs. Follow these guides and you should not crack anything.


----------



## skyline377

If you look at closely you can see there is a little gay on top so if I tighten it where it should be I am afraid I might crack something


----------



## vladvm

skyline377 said:


> If you look at closely you can see there is a little gay on top so if I tighten it where it should be I am afraid I might crack something


Place a washer to tighten the gap and to distrubute the forces. this will prevent paint cracking or worse frame cracking...

You can paint the washer white (use white-out or similar)


----------



## Vee

skyline377 said:


> If you look at closely you can see there is a little gay on top so if I tighten it where it should be I am afraid I might crack something


I see! I am not positive, but perhaps some sort of rubber washer that would give on one side and fill the gap on the other would be enough to torque it down and cause the brakes to be stationary on the other side?


----------



## skyline377

vladvm said:


> Place a washer to tighten the gap and to distrubute the forces. this will prevent paint cracking or worse frame cracking...
> 
> You can paint the washer white (use white-out or similar)



That's what I have in mind after I took the picture and looking at it. Thanks I"ll try that!!!


----------



## masterjunx

Jetmugg said:


> What kind of turn-around times have you folks gotten from Marco in Brasil?
> 
> I do some business in Brasil with my "Day Job", and response times always seem excessively long by USA standards.
> 
> SteveM.


One of my friends received his decals from Marco in 2 weeks, mine took a little less than 3 weeks.


----------



## schildgut




----------



## MX304

skyline377 said:


> If you look at closely you can see there is a little gay on top so if I tighten it where it should be I am afraid I might crack something


 It looks like the surface the bolt head contacts isn't completely flat. I agree a large washer is a good idea there.


----------



## ms6073

skyline377 said:


> If you look at closely you can see there is a little gay on top so if I tighten it where it should be I am afraid I might crack something


Cannot tell from the image but is the brake boss is not molded/drilled with a recessed hole so that you can use a recessed brake bolt?


----------



## thefutureofamerica

*FM-015 tire clearance*

Hey all,

As I wait with bated breath for my 015 to show up, I've been browsing for some tires. I'm planning on a couple of rougher-surfaced road races in the spring, and I'm thinking of some 25's or even 28's. Has anyone tried mounting such things? Did they fit?


----------



## cfred84

thefutureofamerica said:


> Hey all,
> 
> As I wait with bated breath for my 015 to show up, I've been browsing for some tires. I'm planning on a couple of rougher-surfaced road races in the spring, and I'm thinking of some 25's or even 28's. Has anyone tried mounting such things? Did they fit?


25's will fit for sure... At least with my frame it did!


----------



## skyline377

I tried but the bolt will not go into the opening in the frame due to the thick paint.. I'll try it again later on


----------



## adam_mac84

masterjunx said:


> One of my friends received his decals from Marco in 2 weeks, mine took a little less than 3 weeks.


mine are taking forever... there was a snafu, which it took me emailing and asking about 20 days after i placed my order for it to be recognized (after i was emailed and told the item would be shipped out). I was frustrated and wanted to cancel my order, but understand it was a 'custom' set of stickers, which i don't know if it is easy or difficult for them to make (manhours wise), but his email communication leading up to my order was top notch, and very quick. I hope to have these in the next week or 2


----------



## CHRAM

skyline377 said:


> If you look at closely you can see there is a little gay on top so if I tighten it where it should be I am afraid I might crack something


A white nylon washer should be rigid enough to hold and gentle enough on the paint., or a rubber washer on the inside (against the paint) and a standard one on top.


----------



## Jetmugg

adam_mac84 said:


> mine are taking forever... there was a snafu, which it took me emailing and asking about 20 days after i placed my order for it to be recognized (after i was emailed and told the item would be shipped out). I was frustrated and wanted to cancel my order, but understand it was a 'custom' set of stickers, which i don't know if it is easy or difficult for them to make (manhours wise), but his email communication leading up to my order was top notch, and very quick. I hope to have these in the next week or 2


I understand about the custom part of the deal as well. Sometimes the "Quick, Good, or Cheap (pick any 2)" rule holds true. I haven't yet ordered, but I have been waiting for an email response from Marco for several days. The lack of quickness in the email response concerns me a bit.


----------



## ColoRoadie

skyline377 said:


> I tried but the bolt will not go into the opening in the frame due to the thick paint.. I'll try it again later on


Grind/sand the bolt head diameter down just a little and it will likely go in just fine. I had to tweak mine a bit to get it in too. Another job....for Super Dremel!


----------



## cfred84

Jetmugg said:


> I understand about the custom part of the deal as well. Sometimes the "Quick, Good, or Cheap (pick any 2)" rule holds true. I haven't yet ordered, but I have been waiting for an email response from Marco for several days. The lack of quickness in the email response concerns me a bit.


Try sending him another mail.
Thr was once inbtw emails thr was lik no comms for 1 week+
Sent him 2 emails anod finally he replied asking me how he can improve the design

Might be a language comm barrier bit cus he uses translator!
I received mine about 3 weeks after I paid


----------



## scirocco

zender said:


> Frame sizes are different. Others have confirmed the geometry is the same, size-for-size. Some of the paint differences in the seatstay and front triangle can be related to frame size too, but not the fork and chainstay I suspect.


Thanks for that, I didn't realise that the smaller sizes have a sloping top tube. Sorry if my original post was a little aggressive. 

I like the look of the greatkeenbike Pinarellos and will probably get one of them or a Dengfu FM015.


----------



## Guymk

CHRAM said:


> Another guy who joined just for this thread. Love the custom Chinese builds. I hope I don't catch any flak for not exactly being frame-specific here, but it seems that the regulars on this thread do have some experience ordering factory direct from China and that's who I'm looking to address.
> I'm hoping to get a real answer from someone who has ACTUALLY purchased hardware or group sets from Chinese manufacturers. When I attempt Google searches, I can only come up with horror stories of bike unrelated products (guy orders computers, gets a box of pencils) or smart a$$ remarks like "...You get what you pay for."
> My inspiration for all of this is the limited edition yellow SRAM RED groupo that would look stunning with the Black/Yellow/Red paint scheme I've come up with for my planned Chinese carbon frameset. I've seen these group sets sell for between $1400.00-1800.00 on ebay. If you go to alibaba and search for "SRAM Yellow", several manufacturers (Elaine Industries, "Ms. juicy lee" at Hangzhou Mingjing Co., Ltd.). They often display the same images that the eBay sellers are using, so I'm not sure who's ripping who off... but the Chinese group sets vary in price from $260-$600. If the copy is really that good, are the eBay retailers making $1000+ a sale? I've read their buyer feedback and everyone is extremely pleased with the products.
> I am also curious about what the "international warranty" that the Chinese manufacturers are offering is all about.
> 
> My father ran a machine shop here in the US (before all the manufacturing went to China) and it was commonplace for a company to release technical drawings and exact tolerances to several companies to let them "tool up" and compete for best pricing & volume. typically, everyone made the same parts to spec, but the lowest price or fastest turnaround would win the contract. It's quite feasible that any of these factories are churning out the exact same product that SRAM sells here in the states.
> Opinions on Chinese group sets?
> sorry for the ramble...



I would stay away from those "chinese" group sets. More than likely the sellers on alibaba are trying to rip people off. Usually any name brand product, especially if the picture has been borrowed from ebay or somewhere else, that is significantly discounted to a ridiculously low price is a scam.


----------



## squirrelz0rs

Been reading this forum for a while and getting ready to pull the trigger, but I have a question for all you buyers out there:

Has anyone ordered AND RECEIVED an FM028 with BB30? (DengFu or whoever) I have yet to find a picture with BB30 and while they assure me they'll do one with it, I want to make sure before I order this as I already have a BB30 setup and don't want to go without.

If so, can you provide a photo and which company you dealt with?

Thanks in advance!

-Dustin


----------



## vladvm

I need opinion before I place the order from Marco


----------



## the_brett

Orange!

Are they making the decals for you? Did they send you PDF guideline or something?


----------



## vladvm

the_brett said:


> Orange!
> 
> Are they making the decals for you? Did they send you PDF guideline or something?


The pictures above were from Marco. Yes, he has the templates for the real Pinarello Prince, and other brands. But I don't want to be a rolling billboard so I decided to replace the texts with my own. The decal set costs $45, a little pricy but I think it is worth it.

His website is http://designstickers.blogspot.com/


----------



## the_brett

vladvm said:


> The pictures above were from Marco. Yes, he has the templates for the real Pinarello Prince, and other brands. But I don't want to be a rolling billboard so I decided to replace the texts with my own. The decal set costs $45, a little pricy but I think it is worth it.
> 
> His website is http://designstickers.blogspot.com/


Rad, thanks!

What company are you going through to get this frame with those custom decals? Are they putting them on? Do they clear coat over them?


----------



## vladvm

the_brett said:


> Rad, thanks!
> 
> What company are you going through to get this frame with those custom decals? Are they putting them on? Do they clear coat over them?


I will be doing them myself. The bike frame is from China (maniac_bicycle), the decals from Brazil. It will be all put together in my basement in Canada. I will not bother clearcoating incase I change my mind later.


----------



## the_brett

So will the frame be a matte finish? So you can clear coat if you want to? Thanks.


----------



## srracer

These recent Pinarello clone threads may have me changing my mind.. I was planning on buying an FM-015 this winter but the Pinarello frames look pretty nice. 

Is there anybody on here that by chance has ridden both and can comment on how the Chinarello frame performs compared to the FM015? 

Or a comparison of the Chinarello to any other frame for that matter (I've ridden both CAAD 8 and CAAD 9 for comparison).

Thanks!


----------



## vladvm

srracer said:


> These recent Pinarello clone threads may have me changing my mind.. I was planning on buying an FM-015 this winter but the Pinarello frames look pretty nice.
> 
> Is there anybody on here that by chance has ridden both and can comment on how the Chinarello frame performs compared to the FM015?
> 
> Or a comparison of the Chinarello to any other frame for that matter (I've ridden both CAAD 8 and CAAD 9 for comparison).
> 
> Thanks!


I can't give personal review yet. 

Based on what I have read from the previous posts, buyers really like the ride and recommend this route as best bang for the buck. But mind you, some of these previous owners never ridden carbon fibre before. So I think the good feedback is due to the material of the frame. 

I am coming from a 1991 21lb Tange Prestige steel frame (very nice ride, but flexy in sprints& climb) and from a 2001 19lb Specialized Allez with aluminum frame and carbon fork (stiff but harsher ride without carbon seatpost, great climbing & sprint power transfer). 

Now in 2010 this will be my first full carbon frame. The geometry of the Chinarello is exactly similar to Pinarello Prince. 

I intend to give review from unpacking to full built, ride and climbing.


----------



## WheresWaldo

+2 for the Orange


----------



## vladvm

WheresWaldo said:


> +2 for the Orange


I pulled the trigger for the orange. I'll see once I get them all.


----------



## ozhoo

vladvm said:


> I will be doing them myself. The bike frame is from China (maniac_bicycle), the decals from Brazil. It will be all put together in my basement in Canada. I will not bother clearcoating incase I change my mind later.


So, one could say that the majority of the value was added in Canada, right? By bicycle manufacturing standards that meets the definition of "Made in Canada" :thumbsup:.

O


----------



## vladvm

ozhoo said:


> So, one could say that the majority of the value was added in Canada, right? By bicycle manufacturing standards that meets the definition of "Made in Canada" :thumbsup:.
> 
> O


I did not even realize that. I will definitely put a Canadian flag sticker there.


----------



## vladvm

srracer said:


> These recent Pinarello clone threads may have me changing my mind.. I was planning on buying an FM-015 this winter but the Pinarello frames look pretty nice.
> 
> Is there anybody on here that by chance has ridden both and can comment on how the Chinarello frame performs compared to the FM015?
> 
> Or a comparison of the Chinarello to any other frame for that matter (I've ridden both CAAD 8 and CAAD 9 for comparison).
> 
> Thanks!


Read a blog, this person bought a chinses no name carbon frame last year.
http://williamclarke.informe.com/bl...esting-things-involving-the-two-wheeled-world


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## independentmind

vladvm said:


> I did not even realize that. I will definitely put a Canadian flag sticker there.


+1 Send me a sticker  my TT bike is getting built in a apartment in Toronto


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## aplitt86

squirrelz0rs said:


> Been reading this forum for a while and getting ready to pull the trigger, but I have a question for all you buyers out there:
> 
> Has anyone ordered AND RECEIVED an FM028 with BB30? (DengFu or whoever) I have yet to find a picture with BB30 and while they assure me they'll do one with it, I want to make sure before I order this as I already have a BB30 setup and don't want to go without.
> 
> If so, can you provide a photo and which company you dealt with?
> 
> Thanks in advance!
> 
> -Dustin


See my post a few pages back here.

FM028 NON ISP w/BB30. I ordered from DengFu and dealt with Tony. Very easy to deal with even with the custom paint I wanted. Turn around time was about 3 weeks once I paid through paypal. It probably took a little longer than normal because of the paint. I haven't purchased any parts yet, but I will be using Campy Chorus 11s group with the Ultra Torque BB30 cups. Very excited to build it up!


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## MrPerkles

This thread is worth reading just for the word Chinarello,thats what mine will be refered as from now on :thumbsup:


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## squirrelz0rs

aplitt86 said:


> FM028 NON ISP w/BB30. I ordered from DengFu and dealt with Tony. Very easy to deal with even with the custom paint I wanted. Turn around time was about 3 weeks once I paid through paypal. It probably took a little longer than normal because of the paint. I haven't purchased any parts yet, but I will be using Campy Chorus 11s group with the Ultra Torque BB30 cups. Very excited to build it up!


Thanks! Much appreciated

-d


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## WheresWaldo

Okay this thread is even bigger than 1 and 2. It is time to start thread number 4 and sticky it.

I will get us started and please have the mods lock this thread once #4 is established.


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## scirocco

vladvm said:


> Read a blog, this person bought a chinses no name carbon frame last year.
> http://williamclarke.informe.com/bl...esting-things-involving-the-two-wheeled-world


What's the gist of it? That link doesn't work for me.


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## ms6073

Apparently the author of the blog had a mishap in a race leaving what I assume was a relatively new Ridley in several pieces so he purchased one of the frames everyone has been talking about, built it up, and has enjoyed riding it since November of 2009.


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## jet sanchEz

I like the FM015 but I would prefer a frame without a seatmast, what is the closest frame to the FM015 that takes a seatpost?

Thanks.


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## FTR

jet sanchEz said:


> I like the FM015 but I would prefer a frame without a seatmast, what is the closest frame to the FM015 that takes a seatpost?
> 
> Thanks.


The FM015 non-ISP version.
They are available either way.


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## cokex

so the people who ordered from www.greatkeenbike.com .. did they provide a tracking number ?


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## asherstash1

yes...


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## paterberg

This is my RB003 (FM015) just arrived from carbonzone on ebay – just six days from china to the north of Ireland. I dealt with Echo who was extremely efficient, replying to my emails and queries very promptly indeed. I paid £345 which included the frameset, headset, seatpost topper and shipping. Haven’t had a chance to complete the build as yet and, given the snowy conditions currently prevailing over the British Isles, I’ll probably not be riding the frame until next spring. However, I’ve given the frame a very thorough inspection and so far everything looks pretty tight – all the threads on the BB, bottle bosses and gear hanger are clean and prepped. I’ve also checked frame and fork alignment with a pair of my own hand built wheels and both were perfect. The only thing I needed to do was slightly sand the lower crown race to ease bearing fit. 

The supplied headset was ok but I substituted the upper bearing and top cap for a FSA Orbit mainly because I have had good experiences with this headset and also to get the benefit of a taller top cap provided by the FSA unit. The supplied seatpost topper is pretty adjustable and does look reasonably good but it is fairly hefty at 168g. I was contemplating swapping it for the gorgeous tune Cappy but after making a few measurements I’m convinced that unfortunately I couldn’t get my required setback with the Cappy, so I guess it’s a case of function over form.

Out of the box the frame weighed 1219g plus 30g for the cable adjusters, bottle bosses and decals minus 35g for the ISP cutting = 1214g. The uncut fork weighed 420g and 399g after cutting to size. So a total weight of 1613g which, initially, seemed a little porky. However bear in mind that this is an ISP frame and also earlier this year I sold a 56cm Colnago Extreme C which weighed 1162g for the frame and 465 for the Star fork = 1627g. And the Colnago costs 2 grand more….

The decals were made by Marco Pollo in Brazil – the “LCE” refers to the usual family names and the “14S” refers to the 14th Sunday of the year which is Tour of Flanders day cos that’s where this frame is heading next April. The Flemish cobbles will answer any questions regarding the strength of these carbon frames from China…. I would really have liked to clear coat over the decals but don’t have the know-how and didn’t really want to paid a pro sprayer which would kinda defeat the idea of a cheap frame. So I covered the decals with VentureShield film which provides both protection and quite a nice finish. Dunno what it’s called in the US but I believe 3M manufacture a similar product.

Also bought a 38mm tub wheelset from carbonzone which was also excellent value for money (see the China carbon wheel thread). Obviously won’t use those in Flanders….!!! Sorry I’ve rambled on a bit here but this is an enthralling thread to say the least and just wanted to chuck in my tuppence worth. I’ll post more pics when the bike’s finished but full marks for carbonzone so far.:thumbsup:


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## mrbubbles

skyline377 said:


> Almost done with my build just wondering to all who finish building their RFM101 what size of bolt do you guys use for the rear brake?? I am using this very long one right now but I feel like I might crack the frame if I tighte it harder


How's the ride compared to your other bikes?


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## independentmind

paterberg said:


> The decals were made by Marco Pollo in Brazil – the “LCE” refers to the usual family names and the “14S” refers to the 14th Sunday of the year which is Tour of Flanders day cos that’s where this frame is heading next April. The Flemish cobbles will answer any questions regarding the strength of these carbon frames from China…. I would really have liked to clear coat over the decals but don’t have the know-how and didn’t really want to paid a pro sprayer which would kinda defeat the idea of a cheap frame. So I covered the decals with VentureShield film which provides both protection and quite a nice finish. Dunno what it’s called in the US but I believe 3M manufacture a similar product.


Good job on the Venture Film, did you wrap the clear film all the way around the tubes or did you apply rectangular shapes over the decals? I don't see a seam in the pics.

This is a great idea btw, I'm also considering decals from Marco, but was afraid to clear coat the frame.


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## paterberg

I'd previously found that the Venture Shield worked really well on the paintwork of my Kawasaki so I figured there be no reason it shouldn't work equally well on a bicycle. And by sheer chance I happened to have half a sheet lying in the garage - almost dumped it in the last clear out! Anyhow I just cut rectangular sections of the Venture Shield approximately 5mm wider than the decals all round and I slanted the ends to keep them parallel to the decal orientation. I would have really liked the clear coat but I must say the Venture Shield worked out better than I'd imagined, you do have to look closely to find the seam. It is a little time consuming to apply, especially minimizing the air bubbles, but if you keep it well wetted it's easily lifted and re-applied until you're sure it's properly aligned. Persistent air bubbles can be reduced with a pin prick.

Think you'll be please with Marco's decals. They really are first rate and he provides an excellent selection. Let's see the pics when you're done. Good luck!


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## hoppa79

Does anyone have a link to pics of a full build up using the FM004 or FM006 frame?

http://dengfubikes.com/product.asp?id=10&classid=21
http://dengfubikes.com/product.asp?id=11&classid=21

I'm looking for a budget traditional geometry carbon frame with a non sloping horizontal top tube, but having a hard time locating one so far.
If none exist could someone recommend the closest match to what I'm looking for? I could really use some direction before pulling the trigger, thanks.


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## Vee

*Standover Height?*

I have been searching hardcore to try to find the stand over height on the FM015 in 55cm and 58cm. If anyone has a built up FM015 in 55cm and/or 58cm, can you please measure the stand over height and post this information.

Thanks!


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## paterberg

Vee said:


> I have been searching hardcore to try to find the stand over height on the FM015 in 55cm and 58cm. If anyone has a built up FM015 in 55cm and/or 58cm, can you please measure the stand over height and post this information.
> 
> Thanks!


The FM015 has a slightly sloping so I'm not too sure how useful standover height will be. Anyhow on my 55cm FM015 the height is 78cm at the seat tube end of the TT, 80cm in the middle of the TT and about 83.5cm at the head tube end of the TT. Hope this helps.


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## Vee

paterberg said:


> The FM015 has a slightly sloping so I'm not too sure how useful standover height will be. Anyhow on my 55cm FM015 the height is 78cm at the seat tube end of the TT, 80cm in the middle of the TT and about 83.5cm at the head tube end of the TT. Hope this helps.


You rock! Now, if we can find someone to give us the data on the 58cm, I will be in business!

Edit: Looks like my estimations were spot on, BTW. Someone earlier mentioned that their 51cm FM015 had a 30" stand over height (at middle of TT). According to the geometry images, the 55cm FM015 should have a stand over height of 31.57" (+/- a tiny bit) and the 58cm FM015 should have a stand over height of 32.75 (+/- a tiny bit). Your measurement matched up with my estimate, so perhaps the 58cm measurements will, as well.


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