# TUE's - A license to dope?



## BacDoc (Aug 1, 2011)

In another thread one of the members of this forum posted some links to cycling rules for competition concerning TUE and common "Anti Aging" prescription meds. Those links addressed level of competition, medical diagnosis etc. Bottom line, at least in cycling, that banned PED substances were banned period. Maybe other sports are different?

Russian hackers leak Simone Biles and Serena Williams files - BBC News


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## MMsRepBike (Apr 1, 2014)

Froome, Wiggins among athletes with TUE approvals published by Russian hackers | CyclingTips

Froome and Wiggins were among those who's information was leaked.

Neither of them care.

It used to be, under USADA, that you could get a TUE for anything, including anabolic steroids. They took that away for some, not all, but for the most part you can still get one for just about anything.

The hackers are going to have to dig a bit deeper to find something better. The TUE system has long been in place and used and abused and it's just one more way USADA and WADA and such are corrupt.


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## Alaska Mike (Sep 28, 2008)

Classic misdirection by the hackers. It's a strategy Lance used, so they're not alone.

TUEs are abused widely, but these are medications the governing body is aware of and have approved. The athlete is not trying to hide their use.

The Russian doping scandal is next-level, and they're just playing "look at the bunny".


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## BacDoc (Aug 1, 2011)

I was surprised by the TUE for ADHD. These meds have long been used by pro golfers, standardized test takers and others to help with focus and concentration in situations that often fluster "normal" people.

I can see the advantage in competition. Gymnastics for sure, and cycling in situations. If you're a sprinter or member of the lead out train it really helps to focus and concentrate in those last few km when things get nervous.

Ya, I got ADHD! Sometimes I find it hard to keep my mind on task, I have trouble staying focused and find my mind wandering when I do something that requires constant attention. I daydream and get bored easily, yeah, that's it! Get me a script for some Ritalin or Adderol doc!


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## jnbrown (Dec 9, 2009)

I think this is the answer to what I have been wondering for past few years, why has no major pro cyclist been caught doping? Answer: Its all "legal" now you just need a TUE and nobody but you and WADA need to know about it, that is until it gets leaked.


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## Alaska Mike (Sep 28, 2008)

Nahhh. TUEs have been abused forever, and if there were TUEs in the system for the serious stuff, the Russians would have released it.

The dopers are always ahead of the testers, and you can be sure that the very careful ones will only be caught through means other than testing. It's only when riders get careless that they get caught.

I would like to believe that the current environment has decreased the extent of the doping. The way races are playing out seems to point in this direction. I'm hoping race organizers find a formula that allows for exciting racing that doesn't require running on nitrous, but I'm pessimistic enough that I think cheaters will cheat no matter what the course is.


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## den bakker (Nov 13, 2004)

jnbrown said:


> I think this is the answer to what I have been wondering for past few years, why has no major pro cyclist been caught doping? Answer: Its all "legal" now you just need a TUE and nobody but you and WADA need to know about it, that is until it gets leaked.


which is why all the leaks of cyclists showed rather benign stuff? You really need to work on your conspiracy theories.


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## jnbrown (Dec 9, 2009)

?????


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## den bakker (Nov 13, 2004)

if "it"s all legal now" where are the TUEs for EPO, blood transfusions etc? Why mess around with rather weak stuff and not the high octane methods?


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## fiziks (Jul 22, 2016)

Some athletes will try anything if they think it will give them an edge. That's why a few years ago you started seeing all these baseball players with the colorful magnetic ropes around their necks (and no, they do NOT work - the "proof" that they do is actually based on magic tricks developed decades ago). It's why deer urine spray and antler powder get tried (I think those things are on the banned substances list because it's frickin' embarrassing to have an athlete in your sport admit that they actually tried it).

But, it would be interesting to compare the percentage of athletes with a TUE for a given substance with the percentage of the general population that uses that same substance. Is the instance of ADHD suspiciously higher than it is in the general population? (ADHD is still one of the most erroneously diagnosed disorders.)


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## The Weasel (Jul 20, 2006)

I wonder what percentage of pro cyclists are 'asthmatic'? Seems like 70% much of the time. Amazing!


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## Alaska Mike (Sep 28, 2008)

But, are we blaming the athletes or the doctors?

Everyone knows some/most/all athletes look for every advantage from the world of medicine. That's the game. WADA and the national ADAs are there to keep them in line.

Now, if you're a rider and you're having trouble breathing for whatever reason, you're going to go see the team doctor, who most teams require you to consult for medical issues. If the doctor says you have asthma, who are you to argue. If the medication works for you and the TUE is approved by the appropriate agencies, why wouldn't you take it?

Now should the doctor have made that diagnosis or prescribed that medication? From the current opioid epidemic (among others), we know that even doctors with the best intentions can make mistakes that have horrible consequences. We also know that there are more than a few doctors out there that probably don't take their oath as seriously as others.

Do I think Froome, Wiggins, and all of the other "outed" cyclists intended to get a performance advantage by seeking drugs? I don't think so, but then again, I wouldn't be surprised if a couple did- I'm a little jaded like that. If there's a system, chances are somebody is abusing it.

As for the percentage of pro cyclists that are asthmatic, I'd probably say that training/racing that much in the varied climates that they frequent can't be good for the lungs over the long term. That they would develop symptoms that would cause a doctor to make such a diagnosis wouldn't be beyond reason, kinda like when a California Masters racer gets a scrip for low T from his doctor after a huge training block. Phil Gaimon says a team doctor suggested he might be asthmatic, but he rejected the diagnosis. Other riders might not, because they're not medical professionals.

A couple of my kids have puffers in the medicine cabinet. To be honest, I think they've expired because they grew out of that phase or never used them to start with. From what I remember, the doctors had no issues handing them out to what I considered healthy kids with seasonal allergies. I've never approached a doctor about it for myself, but I'm sure they'd dole it out just like they did for the kids. It's kinda like Motrin.


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## yogidabear (Mar 4, 2014)

As the old saying goes... I would've become a pro cyclist but I'm not asthmatic.


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## aclinjury (Sep 12, 2011)

Tom Dumoulin thinks Wiggin's TUEs stinks



> “And injecting?” said the Dutchman, who finished on the podium in the 2014 world championship time trial that Wiggins won. “So then you have very bad asthma.
> 
> “It’s not something they do with normal asthmatics, let alone athletes who only have exercise-induced asthma. Apparently Wiggins’ injection worked for weeks — so in my opinion you should be out of competition for weeks. It stinks.”


“And injecting?” said the Dutchman, who finished on the podium in the 2014 world championship time trial that Wiggins won. “So then you have very bad asthma.

“It’s not something they do with normal asthmatics, let alone athletes who only have exercise-induced asthma. Apparently Wiggins’ injection worked for weeks — so in my opinion you should be out of competition for weeks. It stinks.”


Dumoulin: Wiggins TUE controversy 'stinks' | VeloNews.com

Alternative descriptives for doping: "asthma", "anti-aging", "low testosterone".


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## yogidabear (Mar 4, 2014)

aclinjury said:


> Alternative descriptives for doping: "asthma", "anti-aging", "low testosterone".


Also, allergies. So many terrible allergies in pro cycling.


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## PBL450 (Apr 12, 2014)

BacDoc said:


> I was surprised by the TUE for ADHD. These meds have long been used by pro golfers, standardized test takers and others to help with focus and concentration in situations that often fluster "normal" people.
> 
> I can see the advantage in competition. Gymnastics for sure, and cycling in situations. If you're a sprinter or member of the lead out train it really helps to focus and concentrate in those last few km when things get nervous.
> 
> Ya, I got ADHD! Sometimes I find it hard to keep my mind on task, I have trouble staying focused and find my mind wandering when I do something that requires constant attention. I daydream and get bored easily, yeah, that's it! Get me a script for some Ritalin or Adderol doc!


ADHD is so over diagnosed and so over played in the general public it's ridiculous. It makes me feel for the kids struggling with the real thing. No friends.. No ability to interpret affect and intonation. No video games. Whatever real ADHD is, it's rough stuff. The poor attention span person is not ADHD. They are a poor attention span person. The DSM handles this poorly, like eating disorders and a few other impossible diseases to scientifically diagnose.


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## aclinjury (Sep 12, 2011)

TUEs are a part of Brailsford's "marginal gain" for Sky? I'd bet he said yes, of course he'll say yes. Then blame it on the doctors, of course. So much for Sky's "no needle" policy. 

Now we know why Wiggins was so edgy and irritated when journos questioned his performance after his 2012 TdF. His conscience got all defensive about the questioning because it knew he was doing something shady and dishonest. Hypocrite, Sir Wiggo.


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## jspharmd (May 24, 2006)

yogidabear said:


> As the old saying goes... I would've become a pro cyclist but I'm not asthmatic.


As a true asthmatic (diagnosed at 2 years of age), this saying really bothers me (not you saying it, just the saying), because I can't use my pre-exercise albuterol without people looking at me with suspicious eyes. Oh yeah, he has "asthma". Meanwhile, those people will never know what it is like to feel like you are going to suffocate to death.


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## thighmaster (Feb 2, 2006)

jnbrown said:


> I think this is the answer to what I have been wondering for past few years, why has no major pro cyclist been caught doping? Answer: Its all "legal" now you just need a TUE and nobody but you and WADA need to know about it, that is until it gets leaked.


This and a lot of TUE's are masking agents for the good stuff. Like the steroids in inhalers are just a mask for performance related steroids. Lances fake cortisone TUE was used to mask the real cortisone usage. Yes they all dope.


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## jacksdad (Aug 7, 2012)

jspharmd said:


> As a true asthmatic (diagnosed at 2 years of age), this saying really bothers me (not you saying it, just the saying), because I can't use my pre-exercise albuterol without people looking at me with suspicious eyes. Oh yeah, he has "asthma". Meanwhile, those people will never know what it is like to feel like you are going to suffocate to death.


Be carful hitting an inhaler before exercise. Gotta be stressing your heart. 

Let's consider how one gets to be a pro cyclist. Hard work can't make up for physiology. At least not to the point of being a pro. 

So how is an asthmatic any different from a non asthmatic whose physiology simply isn't good enough to win? Cherry picking drugs that mitigate our genetic deficiencies and calling some 'ok' and some 'not ok' defies any ethical code. 

I want to see the strongest non medicated natural cyclists compete, not the 'modifieds'.


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## jacksdad (Aug 7, 2012)

Allowing asthma meds in cycling is just nuts. Epo is bad because it gives you more oxygen processing ability but asthma meds are ok because they just give you more oxygen processing ability. 

I feel for the guys playing honest and hope they are one day put in the spotlight and given the credit they deserve.


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## thighmaster (Feb 2, 2006)

At least don't take pull off the inhaler and then crush the field


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