# XACD thinking about a Ti bike with them



## lawrence

Just read the recent post on XACD. I'm thinking of ordering a custom Ti bike from them. Anybody have experience with them and their bikes?


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## deanyuan

*love em*

I purchased a frame from them beginning of the year. Just make sure you double check the drawings they send you... I have very positive things to say about the whole process. From the day that I confirmed the order and sent the money order over, till the box landed at my workplace was about 3.5 weeks. 
Keep in mind the shipping costs adds a good bit to the cost of the frame, and then sending a money order my bank charged me a nominal fee. But still cheaper than ordering a habanero..

The frame looks great, welds are nice, finish isnt much to look at as its sand blasted. I requested some oversized tubing, which they accommodated, and I basically took the geometry of my specialized Allez and gave that to them.


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## lawrence

1) How much was shipping?

2) Sandblast finish? I've seen the plain titanium frames of Moots, Seven, Serotta, Litespeed. This is the frame finish that I want. Is sandblasting a rougher finish? More pitted? I don't want the finish to be shiny and polished like chrome. I just want a regular Ti frame that I can rub once in a while with a dish pad. Is this what I'll get?


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## deanyuan

Shipping was 145, so the total was 625 for me. The finish looks pretty plain... a bit more dull than I would have liked, but not pitted. I'll see if I can post some pictures later tonight. It's definitely not shiny/chrome. I would describe it more as a gunmetal gray. Even though its plain looking, I actually like how it looks.


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## lawrence

Sounds like what I'm looking for. I don't want any painted frames anymore where the paint chips. Plain Ti always looks brand new.

Now I'd like to here from you after you have it put together and have ridden it. How does it ride? Does it absorb the road vibrations or do you feel it? I thought Ti always absorbed road vibrations until I recently read about someone who bought a non-brand not well known Ti frame and was disappointed with the way it rode and the vibrations he felt.

If you can put up with the money thing, the potential risk of not getting your money back, the lack of a warranty, the hassle of dealing with someone you don't know and in a place that you can't visit, it's worth it to save this kinda of money.

I found a Chinese guy in NYC that sells Ti frames he buys from a Chinese factory but he does no custom work. He sells what he has in stock or what they send him. He wants about $700 but it's not custom. I found some other custom Ti manufacturers for $750-$900 that less scary because they are not in China.


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## deanyuan

I've put maybe 50 miles on it so far. I don't know if its because I'm a larger rider (250#), or I'm don't have enough experience riding different types of bikes, but it felt pretty similar to my old M2 Allez frame. Its a bit more responsive, and tad less stiff. I also threw on a Reynolds Ouza Pro fork, so that might have affected the ride some as I had an older Kinesis Carbon fork before. 

Personally though, I like it a lot. Maybe its because my brain is telling me its Ti, so therefore its a better bike  

I was worried about the whole warranty, foreign country, possible screwup headeaches, and was considering going with habanero. Everyone seems to speak highly of them at least from what I read, but I figured, well, you save about 300 bucks, and that could go towards some nice wheels...or at least some overhyped ceramic bearings...


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## lawrence

Habanero & saving $300 and going towards something else is my thoughts exactly and why I would take a chance with XACD.

BUT how does the frame take road vibrations and bumps? I've ridden two Ti bikes and they took the bumps and potholes like I had shocks on the bike. I then took my Al bike over the same roads and it shook me apart. What a difference.


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## deanyuan

*pics of my xacd frame*

I regret not taking pictures before I built up the frame. I like how the seat stays are curved. I asked for the welded on seat binder, though I sort of regret that now. At the time I thought it would look a bit cleaner, but I dunno... The welds look fairly nice to me, but I never really compared it to any other ti frame.


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## heatstroke

I have just received 5 custom mtb frames from them. 
We got a good deal on the shipping and also a discount on the custom geometry.
It came to 530/frame. 
One frame had the bb threads slightly crooked, so the BB would not sit absolutely flush with the frame. We have yet to resolve this problem - but the owner does not seem to be too bothered as it works fine. Personally I would have been upset.
Everything else was absolutely spot on - good clean & tidy welds.,


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## Khmer Rouge

Hi deanyuan,
do you know the weight of your frame from XACD? Is it their standard road frame or with a custom geometry? How was the contact with XACD? What are the options for custom frames? only the geometry or also things like double / triple butted tubes, tube diameter, etc.? How is the stiffness of the bike?

Greetings,
KM


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## deanyuan

KM,
I wished i had weighed the bike before i built it up, but never did. Felt similar to my allez m2, but who knows.
The guy who works at XACD, Porter, must live with a computer welded to himself as he replies immediately. On my frame, I spec'd the geometry as well as the tube thickness. I don't know what kind of tubes they are, whether theyre double/triple butted, but I think mine were all straight gauge. Since I'm a heavier rider, I specd out some thicker down tubes and chain stays.

dy


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## xaTimei

Hi everyone,

I am Kevin,I come from XACD, I am a designer bike! Perhaps your frame that I designed.I really want to know about the evaluation of the product XACD.Whether I pay tribute to criticize or acceptable.

I hope make friends with the cycling fans here .

Thank you very much.
Kind regards
Kevin,
msn: [email protected]


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## eduvauchelle

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## eduvauchelle

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## lawrence

Great pictures, Thank you. Interesting what they did with the seat post clamp, there is none, it's built into the frame. How will that work out?


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## eduvauchelle

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## Marc

eduvauchelle said:


> it should work fine. I mean Moots does it, so i suppose it works great.
> i'll let you know. I'll probably have to use tiprep to avoid slippage. the only bummer for me was this damn derailleur tab.



Did they offer any options on finish? I'm curious...I note the lack of branding, as well as headtube badge.


Looks quite slick, and very beautiful welds


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## eduvauchelle

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## locominute

to educhavelle,
what size tubes were used?
cannot really tell based on the drawing..


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## locominute

to Kevin.

regarding tube torsional stiffness and lateral stiffness
what 
what would be the equivalent to a 31.8mm 0.9mm gauge tube steel tube..

a 35mm ti or 38mm ti tube?

can you give us a general guideline about tube strength equivalency? like this


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## eduvauchelle

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## eduvauchelle

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## xaTimei

Hi locominute , eduvauchelle 

locominute said right, but general guideline head tube is 38.1mm diameter and 2.15mm thick, top tube is 31.8mm diameter and 0.9mm, seat tube is 58cm long 34.9mm diameter and 0.9 mm thick, good. of course, 31.8x0.9 seat tube is also general guideline 

"as far as equivalence for ti vs steel i have no clue" -----I also like this

locominute are well aware of us, yes, "regarding tube torsional stiffness and lateral stiffness", don't worry we do good bikes, we make many bikes, in general, no problem.


locominute "don't recommend the Ti Seatpost" , I would like to know which style one??

Thank you!
Kevin


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## xaTimei

eduvauchelle said:


> From the start the experience was very good. Ultra Fast build on custom measurements and specs. I based my design on the Moots Vamoots Compact and modified it. they were super easy to deal with, fast response.
> 
> Word of advice though! i got my bike today and it looks and measures as i asked BUT they welded a front derailleur tab on the seat tube that i didn't notice on the drawings. Not the end of the world considering i spent $480 on the frame, $60 on the seatpost and $150 on shipping. But i had to get a different derailleur! So look over your diagrams carefully!
> 
> The CAD drawings they send to you to verify the specs are super detailed and it's easy to miss things. But overall as you can see from pics, Super good packaging, welds are clean. I am sure this as good in feel as a $2800 Moots for $2400 less. I'll give a ride feedback post later.


Thank you for Xi'an-made sure, about you said "welded a front derailleur tab on the seat tube that i didn't notice on the drawings. Not the end of the world considering , ...... look over your diagrams carefully", I am very sorry!!! I do not know your frame of the specific drawings, do your send me? generally, we are in full accordance with the customer to make sure the drawings. we will meet all the requirements of the customers, guest did not say, according to bike's make standards. perhaps we neglect. we should improve the review of the drawings

sorry!
thanks!
kevin


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## locominute

to xatimei

what size OD tubing guideline would you use for 

1. 170lb rider?
2. 190lb rider
3. 210lb rider?

any advantage to bending the chainstays into a "S" shape vs. your current style?

or how about keeping the chainstays straight?


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## xaTimei

locominute said:


> to xatimei
> 
> what size OD tubing guideline would you use for
> 
> 1. 170lb rider?
> 2. 190lb rider
> 3. 210lb rider?
> 
> any advantage to bending the chainstays into a "S" shape vs. your current style?
> 
> or how about keeping the chainstays straight?


I think following 170kg, 34.9x0.9 seatpost, 31.8x0.9 topthe, 38.1x2.15 headtube, 38.1x0.9downtube, 19x0.9 seatstay, 22.2x0.9chainstays , apply MTB frame , 
if road frame, 16x0.9 seatstay, 22.2-19x0.9 taper tube is ok

More than 180lb rider, I think use of the large number of downtube, 40x0.9, 44.5x0.9, 50.8x0.9 , seatstay tube 22.2x0.9, chainstay 22.2x1.2, etc.....

do you think OK?

thanks
Kevin


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## locominute

went ahead and ordered my frame..hopefully the wire transfer will go smoothly
and I'll get a frame in 3 weeks


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## locominute

decided to go extra stiff with 22.2 mm round chainstays and 22.2 ovalized seatstays both curved
and 38.1 top tube ( with internal routing) 
with biaxiallly ovalized 50.8 DT
--
will let you know how it rides 3

I float over 180lbs and mash a lot.


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## xaTimei

*believe XACD, believe Kevin*



locominute said:


> went ahead and ordered my frame..hopefully the wire transfer will go smoothly
> and I'll get a frame in 3 weeks


Please believe acxd, believe Kevin, Where I was engaged in design work for 8 years, Our quality will become better and better, Our products will not let you disappointed! Worth looking forward to!

Best regards
Kevin


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## locominute

hi Kevin,
just noticed your reply regarding 1.2mm chainstays---I requested a change of the chainstay from 0.9 to 1.2mm for stiffer rear end--


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## xaTimei

*Good!*



locominute said:


> hi Kevin,
> just noticed your reply regarding 1.2mm chainstays---I requested a change of the chainstay from 0.9 to 1.2mm for stiffer rear end--


Hi ocominute

I think you are the right choice!

Have any questions you can free contact me!

[email protected]

Best regards 
Kevin


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## lawrence

Why does XACD use a welded seat post bracket with a bolt rather than a seat collar as most other bikes do? This seems that if this bracket ever strips, you are hurting. With a seat collar, you just change it.


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## locominute

the seat post bracket is optional


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## lawrence

Is the bracket better than a seat collar?


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## Chonut

So, have you received the frame yet? If so, what are your impressions? Is the final product what you were expecting?


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## locominute

it's in transit right now


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## locominute

it arrrived today--actually it was sent out 1 week ago arrived in the USA 2 days later then spent 24hrs in customs after which USPS delivered it after a weekend delay.

looks just as ordered
3lb 15oz on a pedi scale-- for a 54cm virtual top tube frame with 17.5 head tube length
11degree tt slope
and fat tubes.

brushed finished--

?


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## locominute

rode the bike for the first time --
not bad --the front triangle is quite stable and with the extra tall head tube with shorter TT
I am the most comfortable ever on a road bike - even - in the drops--and now that I can truly stretch out my legs 

couple of things.
1. Front triangle is very stiff and accurate!! love the big fat tubes

2. rear triangle could be a bit more stiff --it is not soft --but could be a laterally stiffer .. as compared to my Tesch S-22 which massive tall and wide chainstays ( and less tire clearance)


things I would have changed--

1---. I would request 1.6mm thick wall chainstay instead of the 1.2mm
2-- keep the 22.2 round chainstay as round as possible --the chainstay start at 17mm wide x 26mm tall then slim down to 15mm x 28 around the tire region then round to 22.2mm afterwards to the drop out.
----I guess keeping the chainstays width at least 17mm or even 20mm would have stiff the rear that extra 10 percent.


per Renoylds website CWSR 3/25 ti si as stong if not stronger than either Columbus Zona or Renolds 531 but only 1/2 the stiffnes.--(didn't see this till after I finalized the order}
Corrrect me if I am wrong , please, but if a ti tube has 1.2mm walls the equivalent stiff steel tube of the same dimension would only require 0.6mm walls right?

I looked at merlins chainstay and they seem to keep their width all the way.

despite that lack of extra kick int he rear triangle the bike is a hoot-- with the long head tube and shorter tobe than usual the things makes steering at speed a real a blast.
( but this a more of a issue of geometry)


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## ahilliard

Thanks for posting your experience, loco. Wish I'd seen it before approving the drawings on my order.

22.2x1.2mm chainstays sounded like enough from this post, but I guess this is what happens when you don't support experienced frame designers.


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## locominute

ahilliard--if they haven't built your frame up yet --you can change the design.


I may have made the bike sound like it was flexy --it is not--just not as laterally stiff as the S-22
it is stiffer than the Specialized E5 frame / Tarmac expert I used to ride and I am 185lb.

at least with my XACD when I sprint the front end does not move side to side like the 2 specialized 

Porter is able to design a frame with straight 22.22mm stays but he was thinking about tire clearance of 40mm in mind--which was kind of my mistake in not letting him know that 40mm was not required.
but the drawings provided did not suggest that the CS would be so slim

also would have gone with straight seat stays 

good info from Dave Kirk's blog
http://www.kirkframeworks.com/blog/


April 19th 2009
took it 44 miles today--very smooth ---- the rear was pumped to 120psi but nothing jolting. in the back at all.


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## Zschroeder

*Any Advise*

I'm really new at this so I am clueless to what I need or what would fit me best. I weigh 260lb and have a 30 inch inseam... is there a good website you can put in your dimensions to get an idea about what kind of frame geometry would work best? If I have the option of custom with this company, I would love to take advantage of it.


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## lawrence

*Go to a Serotta fitter*

I recommend going to a good fitter that does fitting specifically for custom bikes. Not a good fitter that will fit you on an existing bike. The best printed final dimensions I've seen are from Serotta certified fitters as their software is terrific producing all the tube lengths, angles, etc.

If you are going to lose weight, it would be best for you to wait until you are thinner as your bike dimensions will then change. With substantial weight loss and exercise, you will find yourself more flexible and you will be able to bend over more and tolerate different angles better which will change the dimensions of the bike.


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## Marc

Zschroeder said:


> I'm really new at this so I am clueless to what I need or what would fit me best. I weigh 260lb and have a 30 inch inseam... is there a good website you can put in your dimensions to get an idea about what kind of frame geometry would work best? If I have the option of custom with this company, I would love to take advantage of it.



I'd get a stock bike. It'll be cheaper. Yea the frameset will cost only $700...but you have to buy everything else on the bike which you're talking a good $1000 (just for bottom-of-the-barrel level parts) in other toys to have to buy. Plus another $150 or $200 to pay someone to build it and set it up--unless you already know your own wrenching...you'd also have a warranty and repair contract.


You're not going to save much money.


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## rook

The weight of the XACD titanium bikes are laughable. Other people who have bought them and weighed them have posted weights ranging from 1600 - 1800+ grams. You could get an old-school steel frame for the same weight!


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## Smallfurry

xaTimei said:


> I think following 170kg,
> 34.9x0.9 seatpost,
> 31.8x0.9 toptube,
> 38.1x0.9downtube,
> 
> thanks
> Kevin


I have been looking at these frames and have some quick(ish) questions.....
Are these tubes available double butted?
If so what would the equivalent dimensions to those above?

Many thanks,

Lee


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## rook

This frame company is a joke. They have agents registering a new user account on these forums quite regularly and pretending to be actual customers.

They use the cheapest titanium tubes out there. That translates into a very heavy frame, even by steel standards. Going off the frame weights that have been listed, you could by an older steel frame that will still be lighter and cheaper than the newer higher price that these guys are now asking.


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## rameau

rook said:


> This frame company is a joke. They have agents registering a new user account on these forums quite regularly and pretending to be actual customers.
> 
> They use the cheapest titanium tubes out there. That translates into a very heavy frame, even by steel standards. Going off the frame weights that have been listed, you could by an older steel frame that will still be lighter and cheaper than the newer higher price that these guys are now asking.


You are right.
His real name is not Kevin, but xaTimei,Chinese.
No native English speaker wrote "I am a designer bike!" and 
person named Porter lied about their OEM, saying they making Litespeed,Merlin,Moots etc.


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## lawrence

I consider this to be an unreputable company. Any other companies for Chinese Ti frames?

Problem with many of these Chinese companies, they don't take VISA. You have to wire the money directly into their bank account. Scary.


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## numbnutz

I'm thinking of taking the XACD plunge here. Can someone enlighten me as to the proper measurement of the spacing of the rear wheel? Specifically, if you are running a standard 700c road wheel, what should the distance from the rear wheel axle center to the center of the seat stay bridge (i.e., the hole where the rear brake bolts on)? The drawing I have shows a distance of 365mm. Is that in the range of tolerance to have a standard road caliper hit the braking surface of a 700c rim?


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## ahilliard

I'm no expert, but here's a guess. Since 700c wheels have a bead diameter of 622mm, the frame distance you want is approximately 622/2 + brake reach. For a 365mm frame size, your brakes must have at least 54mm reach. That's on the long-reach side, but possible.


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## PeeCee

*I've had two XACD frames for 3+ years*

I ordered my first XACD frame (a cyclocross) almost four years ago. It was a bit heavier than super high end Ti frames, but other than that, I have no complaints about it. My second frame was a track frame. I really liked that bike--carbon forks, Phil Wood hubs unfortunately someone stole it a few months ago. All in all I was happy with the frames, the weight was not unreasonably heavy as one of the earlier posters suggests. The welds were good. 

I've decided to build a couple more track bikes. I'm definitely going with XACD again. I know exactly what I want and there is no way I could order a custom frame for anywhere near the price of an XACD frame.

For anyone considering ordering from XACD, I would strongly suggest knowing exactly what you want before sending them them an email. Porter--their sales rep can seem impatient and rude at times. Particularly if you change something you asked for previously. Know the exact geometry and tube sizes you want, where you want your cable stays and what kind etc. 

If you can get the specs of a Ti bike that fits and is what you want, just send them the details. Pricewise they aren't quite as cheap as they used to be. I'm getting two 63cm frames for $695 apiece.

I don't think there is any need for concern about quality--from what I understand, they make frames for several brands. I may be wrong, but Spicer Ti frames look a lot like XACDs. I don't know about now, but Spicer used to sell Ti forks that were identical to the ones made by XACD.


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## jimbeans

As for long term, have had a Ti frame they built for me 7 years ago, no issues at all. Frame was prepped very well, they were very fast in getting it made. I'm looking into another bike from them now, as still it's an incredible value for very custom design.


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## Nikitze

I have just received my frame from XACD. I ordered a standard double butted cx frame. Porter specified me the weight: 1300 gr. In reality the weight is 1650 gr. When I asked why it is so heavy, he said because of the disc break mount added  Well, it is difficult to discuss in that way, so before order from them think twice. I think they just dont have butted tubes. But the quality good, it looks nice, will see on the road.


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## PeeCee

A 350 gram disc brake mount should be REALLY sturdy!!

I've gotten into a few shouting matches with Porter. It is really difficult to discuss anything with him.


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## Nikitze

Porter gave me a discount of 50 bucks for the next order, what a gentleman !


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## PeeCee

That's better than what I got.

My XACD frames (4 in total) have all been a bit on the heavy side. But, they have gotten very hard city use and survived it very, very well. Three of the frames are track frames. I sold the cyclocross and had one of the track frames stolen. I'm riding my second and third track frames now. Heavy daily commuting use--banged around, up and down curbs and in and out of traffic. If they were really for the track, I would've sent them back to Porter, but for my use and abuse, they're just about right.


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## rook

XACD just want to sell you something. They will lie to you to get your money. He (Porter) will quote you 1300g, and you get it and it's way over 1600g. Other people have said that they have suspected their XACD double-butted frames, were really single-butted. They fudge alot on the price too. Frame price used to be alot lower, but they will just try to get you for as much as they can. Check around on other forums though. Some people getting these at five to six-hundred bucks. Some paying 800. It's just a bargaining thing, and different economies of diff countries. There are other more reliable sellers in Asia than XACD if you must go this route. Check out LSL titanium and the company formerly known as Hi-Light. You can bargain with them too on price.


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## PeeCee

*I agree with Rook*

As I have had opportunities to ride other Ti frame bikes, I have become increasingly disenchanted with my XACD frames. My biggest disappointment so far from XACD is an oval Ti track frame. It is way to heavy and way too stiff. I'm probably going to be dismantling it and putting the parts on another frame. 

Due to the weight of the frames and Porter's pushiness, next time I get a frame, it will be from another builder.


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## jimbeans

Have to say repeated discussions with Porter @ XACD have been very frustrating.. As a potential repeat customer, he is the worst example of professionalism I can imagine. I start also wondering whether there is any real bicycle expertise there (this is confirmed when simple questions are asked - they are more autocad people than bicycle people). I think that they are farming these out as a design studio front to a larger contractor behind them. So they are the middleman for a welding/fabrication firm, as there are many many other titanium frame mfctrs if you look on alibaba. The bad stories read about others not getting assistance with issues after the sale makes it difficult to take the risk again, if there are other options. 

Would like others opinions on other options - saw the Hilight example and also LSL. Will check into them. There is a company called titan products, Eric is contact,

http://titanproducts.en.ec21.com/company_info.jsp

they seem to do a lot of work also.


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## babyrabies

i've had it with XACD, this is the first and last frame with that shithead Porter. 11 ****in weeks and not a sign of completing. I suspect they didnt even get started till the 8th week. at the very least. Perhaps i will try Titanproducts for my next frame.


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## fab4

babyrabies said:


> i've had it with XACD, this is the first and last frame with that shithead Porter. 11 ****in weeks and not a sign of completing. I suspect they didnt even get started till the 8th week. at the very least. Perhaps i will try Titanproducts for my next frame.


I feel your pain bro. Bought a newsboy ti frame from XACD earlier in the year and I didn't have very good experience dealing with that a$$#0!* Porter. Took them 13 weeks to deliver the frame after telling me 3 weeks. Can't get a straight answer from them. They also messed up on the rear brake bridge and would not admit their mistake. Go with Titan for your next custom. They are more professional and their pricing is a lot cheaper plus they will take Paypal or escrow as form of payment.


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## fab4

jimbeans said:


> Have to say repeated discussions with Porter @ XACD have been very frustrating.. As a potential repeat customer, he is the worst example of professionalism I can imagine. I start also wondering whether there is any real bicycle expertise there (this is confirmed when simple questions are asked - they are more autocad people than bicycle people). I think that they are farming these out as a design studio front to a larger contractor behind them. So they are the middleman for a welding/fabrication firm, as there are many many other titanium frame mfctrs if you look on alibaba. The bad stories read about others not getting assistance with issues after the sale makes it difficult to take the risk again, if there are other options.
> 
> Would like others opinions on other options - saw the Hilight example and also LSL. Will check into them. There is a company called titan products, Eric is contact,
> 
> Xi'an Titanproduct Co., Ltd - Company Profile
> 
> they seem to do a lot of work also.


 I'm currently working with Titan on a custom road ti frame. They are more professional and their pricing is a lot cheaper plus they will take Paypal or escrow as form of payment.


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## mavisto

I have just got a frame from Titan Products. Received it about a month ago and although it's hidden in my loft at the moment, I'm really happy with it.

I dealt with Anita and she was great, No pressure even with all my little changes.

I've posted some photos on one of the other Ti threads.
http://forums.roadbikereview.com/bikes-frames-forks/chinese-titanium-frames-237368-post3643462.html#post3643462


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## jasg

Just a point to add on - Titan Products (re/Anita) still isn't doing a separable style frame as others have mentioned XACD will do. Anyone found a non-XACD vendor that will do titanium couplers ?


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