# 2009 vs 2010 Tarmacs



## lennon2666 (Jul 17, 2009)

Visited my local shop today and found bikes that weren't on sale a week ago suddenly on sale. Or so it seems.

Here's the thing. The week before, when they didn't have any in stock, I was quoted $2150 for a 2010 Tarmac Elite. I didn't haggle. I just wanted to know what they'd be selling it for at list price. At the time, mind you, they had some 2009s going for $2200.

Today I found the same models (or similar, I didn't ask if they were backroom stock after purchases were made during the week between my visits) models brought down to $2000. To tell you where I'm going with this post, I'll say they had one or two 2009 Comp level bikes going for $2400 list.

Now, it might just be me, but $2150 for a 2010 and $2000 for a 2009 of the same model name seem awfully close. So the first question is: Is it awfully close? Secondly: What would be the right price for you?

The reason I ask is I'm hedging whether to buy 2009 stock and get better wheels and change the shifters and rear derailleur to Rival (by myself), or buy a 2010 Comp with full Rival and deal with the heavy Aksiums that are already on board. 

I'm looking to spend no more than $2500, tax included. If the shop is listing the 2010 Comp Rival at $2600, which it intends to do, once it's unboxed, which will have been done this evening and ready for sale tomorrow, where would you place your bet?

Thanks for reading. Hope I didn't annoy you too much by starting another either/or thread. A lot of you guys give good advise and, if need be, good pep talks too. I need some!


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## NealH (May 2, 2004)

Get the Pro SL. If you can't afford it then save for a while. The '09s will continue to be priced very competitively for the next few months.


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## lennon2666 (Jul 17, 2009)

NealH said:


> Get the Pro SL. If you can't afford it then save for a while. The '09s will continue to be priced very competitively for the next few months.


I have no want or need for the caliber of the Pro SL. The question concerns the Elite and Comp models only, thanks.


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## PJ352 (Dec 5, 2007)

lennon2666 said:


> Visited my local shop today and found bikes that weren't on sale a week ago suddenly on sale. Or so it seems.
> 
> Here's the thing. The week before, when they didn't have any in stock, I was quoted $2150 for a 2010 Tarmac Elite. I didn't haggle. I just wanted to know what they'd be selling it for at list price. At the time, mind you, they had some 2009s going for $2200.
> 
> ...


I'm not sure I followed all of your year/ model/ price combo's, but if your LBS prices differently based on whether a bike is in a box in the store, built up or has to be ordered, I don't like their policies, but that's not really your question. As far as '09 vs '10 pricing, I think we've already seen many examples where '10 pricing is very competitive, at least with Tarmacs. 

I'd say if you're interested in Rival it makes little sense to buy a bike equipped otherwise, then convert to Rival. If the 2010 Comp suites you, costs less (than the '09) and has an upgraded frameset (over the '09), why not go with that? I would think that option offers more than another, simply to avoid the Aksiums.


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## daniyarm (Aug 19, 2008)

I would say get 2010 with Rival and try to sell the wheels and get something better. It will probably come out the same in terms of money, but you'll have a newer frame.


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## father_of_4 (Aug 6, 2009)

It seems to me that the 2010 Comp with Rival is right at your budget and interest level. I was hoping that those would be listed at $2500, but have not seen any in the flesh. (if I did I would probably buy one). I don't think that it is a full Rival setup other bits are added to lower cost. You have to ask if you are the difference in components is really worth the $500....

Bob


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## lennon2666 (Jul 17, 2009)

Well, I went and rode the 2010 Tarmac Comp Rival tonight. Really loved the feel of the hardware. Substantially better than the 105 felt. But no dice. I offered $2500 out the door, and the salesman said flat out _not gonna happen_. He said that the 2010s just came out and I wouldn't find anyone selling the bike for that much, or that little. A bunch of members here clearly would beg to differ, but well, that's that, no sale. I'll see what another LBS has to say, but otherwise, no 2010 Tarmac Comp Rival for me. Perhaps I should look again to who has the Cannondale Synapse Carbon 4 in stock around the area. (The place selling the Tarmac only stocks Specialized and Fuji in its road bike "department.")


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## daniyarm (Aug 19, 2008)

I think that $2500 out the door is way low. I can see if you offered MSRP $2700 out the door, but another $200 is low for a model that just came out. Unless a friend owns the shop I don't see how anyone can get this bike for $2500 total.


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## PJ352 (Dec 5, 2007)

lennon2666 said:


> Well, I went and rode the 2010 Tarmac Comp Rival tonight. Really loved the feel of the hardware. Substantially better than the 105 felt. But no dice. I offered $2500 out the door, and the salesman said flat out _not gonna happen_. He said that the 2010s just came out and I wouldn't find anyone selling the bike for that much, or that little. A bunch of members here clearly would beg to differ, but well, that's that, no sale. I'll see what another LBS has to say, but otherwise, no 2010 Tarmac Comp Rival for me. Perhaps I should look again to who has the Cannondale Synapse Carbon 4 in stock around the area. (The place selling the Tarmac only stocks Specialized and Fuji in its road bike "department.")


A couple of thoughts. IME bike shops set the prices they do for a variety of reasons. Region, economics (theirs and that of the immediate area), competition, overhead, incentives, if any. All that given, I'm not sure that you should use some of the sale prices posted here on the forum as gospel. I mean, it's your $$ so you can do whatever you want , but I guess if you really like THAT bike and you and the LBS are off 'by some', it might be worth your while to rethink this rather than walk on a perceived 'principle'. 

FWIW, here's an example. Last year I shopped around for a Spec Tarmac Pro frameset. I've seen posted prices here for as low as around $1,300, but in my area the BEST price I was quoted was $1,600. Sometimes, for whatever reason, it's the best the LBS's can do.


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## lennon2666 (Jul 17, 2009)

List price was $2600. I would assume 10% off list price is pretty common, given how profits are divvied up along the manufacturer-to-sales-floor chain. Room to maneuver is kind of built in to the system, particularly for bikes above a certain threshold.

The key is negotiation. What turned me off was that the salesman didn't even come back with an offer of his own. No budging whatsoever. He expected me to pay list plus tax, and he said no one would offer any better a deal. I'm not so sure about that. I'll see what other LBSs say.


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## PJ352 (Dec 5, 2007)

lennon2666 said:


> *List price was $2600*. I would assume 10% off list price is pretty common, given how profits are divvied up along the manufacturer-to-sales-floor chain. Room to maneuver is kind of built in to the system, particularly for bikes above a certain threshold.
> 
> The key is negotiation. What turned me off was that the salesman didn't even come back with an offer of his own. No budging whatsoever. He expected me to pay list plus tax, and he said no one would offer any better a deal. I'm not so sure about that. I'll see what other LBSs say.


If they quoted you $2,600 they are giving you a discount. List on that bike (US region) is $2,700.
http://www.specialized.com/us/en/bc/SBCBkModel.jsp?spid=45885&eid=4350


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## lennon2666 (Jul 17, 2009)

PJ352 - That's all relative. $2700 is MSRP. A bike shop can charge whatever it wants. MSRP means manufacturers suggested retail price. That's independent of a bike shop serving the end user market. List price was $2600. I offered to negotiate on that ground. They declined. And I'm saying that's pretty unusual, particularly for a higher margin product. That's an educated opinion. I'm not saying they have to sell me the bike for what I want. That's obviously their call. I was simply relaying my experience (for what it's worth) to anyone who might happen to read this thread.


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## daniyarm (Aug 19, 2008)

Were you going to pay cash? A lot of smaller shops will give you cash discount.
Plus it depends on the relationship with the shop, if you are a frequent customer, most of the time they'll give you a better discount. It also depends on demand, if the guy knows he'll sell that bike within a week for $2600 + tax, he has no reason to sell it to you for $2500 out the door. If I had to guess Specialized warehouse stock is pretty low after shipping all the new bikes, so if he had to reorder for somebody else he might have to weight for a while.


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## PJ352 (Dec 5, 2007)

lennon2666 said:


> PJ352 - That's all relative. $2700 is MSRP. A bike shop can charge whatever it wants. MSRP means manufacturers suggested retail price. That's independent of a bike shop serving the end user market. List price was $2600. I offered to negotiate on that ground. They declined. And I'm saying that's pretty unusual, particularly for a higher margin product. That's an educated opinion. I'm not saying they have to sell me the bike for what I want. That's obviously their call. I was simply relaying my experience (for what it's worth) to anyone who might happen to read this thread.


Don't misunderstand, I'm not arguing with you or implying you're not educated. But I am confused, because you keep saying that LIST is $2,600, but Spec's website lists MSRP as $2,700. To me, this means your LBS is taking $100 off list, it doesn't mean $2,600 _is now list._

All that aside, you have to do what you think is best (for you). I'd just hate to see someone lose out on a bike that's top on their list because of $100 or so. When you spread that over the years you'll have the bike, IMO it's inconsequential.

BTW, of the four Spec shops in my area, two sell current model year bikes at list (MSRP), one discounts about 10% and one discounts about 16%.


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## lennon2666 (Jul 17, 2009)

PJ352, I understand you're not arguing  My point is that from the get-go I told them I was interested in the 2010 Comp Rival, and asked for reference what they'd be selling for, and I was told $2600. I do in fact recognize that Specialized has written $2700 as the MSRP, but that's basically a suggestion for dealers. To regard MSRP as some sort of "real price" is kind of missing the point. It's not the "real price." That's what Specialized thinks it should go for. Whatever a shop desides to sell it for is their business. They could sell it at a loss if they chose to. It wouldn't be in their interest to, but it's entirely possible. It's also possible for a shop to look at the $2700 price and consider their service costs over 1-2+ years and actually tack on more cost to the sale price. I'm sure that rarely happens, because competition generally drives down prices, but you get what I'm saying.

I do agree that $100-200 (or, for the sake of the discussion, $2600 plus 7% tax, which is what the shop says it will sell it to me for, is $2782, compared to my offer of $2500) is fairly inconsequential, I just don't want to pay more if I can avoid it. I don't harbor any favor with this particular LBS, and I may well move to a very distant location in the near future anyway, so the advantage of starting a generous rapport with the shop is just not really on my mind. But that's neither here nor there. I'm pretty much basing my logic on basic economics and market value, and if it's a popular concept for the average shop to provide 10-15% negotiating room to seal a relatively high-value sale (in the grand scheme of things, a $2700 bike is on the low end, of course, but there's more in it for the dealer than, say, a $300 bmx rig), I would at least expect a conversation on pricing, not a refusal to move at all. I certainly don't think I low-balled the shop.


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## lennon2666 (Jul 17, 2009)

daniyarm said:


> Were you going to pay cash? A lot of smaller shops will give you cash discount.
> Plus it depends on the relationship with the shop, if you are a frequent customer, most of the time they'll give you a better discount. It also depends on demand, if the guy knows he'll sell that bike within a week for $2600 + tax, he has no reason to sell it to you for $2500 out the door. If I had to guess Specialized warehouse stock is pretty low after shipping all the new bikes, so if he had to reorder for somebody else he might have to weight for a while.


Yeah, I had the cash in my pocket. If he can sell it within a week for $2600 + tax, he should. That's business. There are plenty of six-figure and even a sizable bunch of seven-figure families in my neck of the woods, and some of them surely have an interest in cycling, and well, they buy bikes. Some even top-notch bikes. Supersixes, s-works, Serotta, Sachs, you name it. But I also know something about the structure of the bike market, and what portion of a sale goes to whom (roughly), and I know the shop can't tell me they can't sell me that bike for what I offered (or something close to it). Because they can. Just like they told me they wouldn't sell me a 2009 Tarmac Elite for $2k a couple of weeks ago, and now two weeks later they can.

Let me reiterate. They have total control on what they sell that bike for. And they can refuse my offer or any offer. But I can also seek a better deal elsewhere, and if I get one, well, all the better. I get served. The objective of competition gets served. And some folks get to keep their jobs, and wheel goes round and round.

Alright, peace!


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## PJ352 (Dec 5, 2007)

Regarding MSRP vs 'list' vs sale price, I think our disagreement is rooted in terminology, not true meanings. I know the MSRP is a suggested price, almost always strayed from. But you call the LBS's selling price 'list', where I call it the selling price. List, to me, is another name for MSRP. And if numerous stores sold a given product for close to the same price, it becomes the 'street price'. I hope that helps clarify.

I don't at all blame you to seek out other Specialized shops for a better price. It's certainly your prerogative, and I'd do the same. Of the 4 shops I mentioned previously, I bought from the one that offered the highest discount. It just happened to be the shop I liked dealing with the best.

Lastly, while price and value are important to most of us, IMO seeking out C'dales because you couldn't get some $$ off your first choice is putting a little too much emphasis on the dollar amount - unless, of course, you thought the C'dale was close enough to warrant that approach. I'd be more apt to try and close that $272 price gap by shopping around.


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## mikagsd (Mar 22, 2008)

Just an FYI, my LBS did a 2010 Roubaix Comp w 105 at $2500, then I have to add tax on top of that. I don't think 2600 is a bad deal really. I think you asking $2500 including tax may be a bit more than what most shops will do on models that just hit the floor. But hey, they worst they are going to say is no right?


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## petalpower (Aug 10, 2009)

FWIW, I just bought a 2010 Tarmac Elite for $1950. He also had a '09 for $1850.

I figured for $100 more, the 8r frame was worth it over the older 6r.

Happy with is so far!!


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## RedRider93 (Jan 28, 2009)

FWIW at the Speci shop I used to work at our price book had a minimum price we could sell it for, this means if we got caught selling it below that we would get yelled at by our rep and maybe demoted status, seeing as their are 3 or 4 levels of dealers, and each level gets different cost prices for the shop that the shop buys bikes from specialized. Sometimes if the bike is fairly old and we just wanted it out of the shop our boss would give us permission to sell below that minimum price Specialized set for that specific bike, but on a 2010 I see no reason at all to sell below, and I'm pretty sure $2500 is right below that set minimum price. The only time one can get a bike for below that minimum when a bike is pretty much brand new is if you work at the shop or you work for specialized, and since you were asking an LBS 2500 for a bike that lists at 2700 I'm pretty sure you fill neither of the previously mentioned. IMO 2600 is a very reasonable price for a bike that probably just got shipped to that LBS within a month ago.


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