# Cannondale Supersix headset, messed up bike a bit



## aindriu80 (Sep 15, 2012)

*Cannondale Supersix headset, rounded cap bolt ?*

hi,

I got a new bike (Cannondale Supersix 105 Compact Road Bike Replica (2012)) a few weeks ago and have put up 300km on it. I am very happy with the bike but have a sore neck and butt. The saddle will have to do for now but I wanted to raise the headset and give my neck a bit of a break.

Basically I got an Allen key (a right fit) and tried to loosen the headset and thus raise it. But it kind of cut the threads inside and now it doesn't look so good. 

You can see it looking a bit rung when you look straight down on it and I'm a bit annoyed with it. I did expect it to be able to stand up against an Allen key. 

What can I do with it ? It doesn't effect my riding but I wouldn't like to leave it like that forever. 

Any posts on the topic are gladly welcomed !

**edit : I think the part in question is called the cap bolt. I don't know for sure, its what wikipedia is telling me. 

I don't want to leave it rounded as its a brand new bike. I am wondering can some kind of replacement be done.

here is a picture of the bolt


----------



## Bluechip (Feb 19, 2004)

Sorry but your description and picture does not make it clear as to your problem. Are you saying that your raised your stem by removing the top cap and taking the spacers above the stem and putting them below the stem? Is the top cap bolt head stripped?


----------



## Diopena1 (Jul 21, 2011)

If you're talking about the expansion plug, its a $30 piece:

http://www.cannondaleexperts.com/Ca...ap-for-Carbon-Steerer-Tubes--KP017_p_106.html


----------



## aindriu80 (Sep 15, 2012)

Bluechip said:


> Sorry but your description and picture does not make it clear as to your problem. Are you saying that your raised your stem by removing the top cap and taking the spacers above the stem and putting them below the stem? Is the top cap bolt head stripped?


ok, well I tried to raise the stem but with what happened to the top cap I had to leave it and I returned it to the position I got it in. I don't which part is which to describe what I was doing but I got a picture here which I think matches up the part for my bike










Its the first part on the left. Basically its a bit rounded and rough now that I used an Allen key on. I thought it would just be a matter of loosening it in order to raise the head set (handlebars)


----------



## aindriu80 (Sep 15, 2012)

Diopena1 said:


> If you're talking about the expansion plug, its a $30 piece:
> 
> Cannondale SI Expanding Compression Wedge/Top Cap for Carbon Steerer Tubes - KP017/ - CannondaleExperts.com


thanks dude, that looks it if not very similar to it !. Its the very top bit that I managed to screw up. I guess it would just be a matter of replacing it.


----------



## bikerjulio (Jan 19, 2010)

OP you really should not be messing with this, which also has serious safety consequences if you mess up, if you just don't understand what you are doing. Which is obviously the case, as you tried to do the wrong thing.

I'd suggest you find someone who understands threadless headsets to show you how to do this properly as it's easy to mess up in a big way. Or at least study this online.

The stem bolts should be loosened first, then the top cap can be removed. To reinstall, the top cap is tightened just enough to preload the bearings, then the stem bolts are tightened to the correct torque. This may sound simple, but it's easy to go wrong here too if you are not used to working with tools & fasteners. It's an accident waiting to happen if you overtighten things.

A picture of your actual bike would help too to look at the stem and spacer situation.


----------



## Diopena1 (Jul 21, 2011)

bikerjulio said:


> OP you really should not be messing with this, which also has serious safety consequences if you mess up, if you just don't understand what you are doing. Which is obviously the case, as you tried to do the wrong thing.
> 
> I'd suggest you find someone who understands threadless headsets to show you how to do this properly as it's easy to mess up in a big way. Or at least study this online.
> 
> ...


I concur!!
You should have gotten a user's manual, which explains all this in detail, with visual aid. There's always a first time for everything, just make sure you don't jeopardize your safety, and the structural integrity of your rig.


----------



## aindriu80 (Sep 15, 2012)

bikerjulio said:


> OP you really should not be messing with this, which also has serious safety consequences if you mess up, if you just don't understand what you are doing. Which is obviously the case, as you tried to do the wrong thing.
> 
> I'd suggest you find someone who understands threadless headsets to show you how to do this properly as it's easy to mess up in a big way. Or at least study this online.
> 
> ...


Yes I realise the safety part of things and thanks very much for your help.

Some of it is a bit confusing and I will have to go through your directions.

The two parts to it and it I didn't manage to get the top cap off and the threads were getting bad so I put it back to the state I got it. 

I live in Ireland so the parts won't be cheap with shipping etc

Here is a pic of my bike, its via an ipod touch which was the only camera on me


----------



## aindriu80 (Sep 15, 2012)

the resolution is terrible but here is a few pictures I took of it


----------



## RCMTB (Apr 20, 2012)

Looks like the cap is stripped. How did you strip it? You just need to buy a new cap. Now the question is, how to remove the cap? I'd probably dremel a notch in the cap and get the widest flathead screwdriver I could find and unscrew it. Also, invest in a torque wrench!!


----------



## aindriu80 (Sep 15, 2012)

I was using a Allen Key that seemed to fit like a glove, after a bit I felt a bit of play in it and I kinda got worried.

I can get it off again, I am sure but it doesn't seem like the kind of thing that likes to be adjusted (like the saddle).


----------



## bikerjulio (Jan 19, 2010)

You need to loosen the bolts holding the stem on first. The stem acts like a clamp, compressing the steerer slightly on to the top cap you are trying to remove. In the Cannondale system the top cap is a snug fit within the steerer and is there to support it against the clamping load of the stem.

Loosen the stem first.


----------



## CHL (Jun 24, 2005)

OP:

Just flip the stem, if it has a negative rise. That should raise the handlebars to the height you desire. By the way, you need the following (required not open for debate).

1. Proper size allen key.
2. Properly calibrated torque wrench.
3. Assembly compound for carbon parts.
4. Additional spacers (if you still want to raise the stem along the length of the steerer tube).

Do yourself a favor and read Cannondale's installation instructions. They are extremely well written and easily understandable. The top cap removes the play from the headset bearings. You need to tighten that until the play is gone (no more / no less). From the pictures, you will need to replace that top cap.

***From the pictures you took, it does not appear that you can raise the stem any further. Don't mess with this, if the stem's clamp does not have enough sufficient surface contact with the steerer tube, then stem will slip or you will simply crack the steerer tube. Don't mess around with your bike's steering or you risk grievous injury, PARALYSIS or DEATH!!**

Be safe my friend. All of us would rather share a pint of ale with you at the local pub, instead of sending you get well cards at the hospital.


----------



## bikerjulio (Jan 19, 2010)

OP I saw your same question on another forum. Overall I'd say you have a much more informed, balanced response in this one. Once you understand the function of the top cap, I don't think the one you have buggered up is scrap. It can be reused in at least a couple of different ways if the allen wrench won't do it. (hint, the 2 pin method, or the torx method).


----------



## metoou2 (Mar 18, 2009)

OP
if you screw up and crush your carbon steer tube you're going to want to visit the pub for a pint or 10! Find a qualified friend or pay the $20.00 U.S. or however much it costs and get it done correctly.
And if you don't crush the steer tube but muck something else up you may loose steering control at the worst possible moment. And they aren't going to give you a pint in the hospital.
Don't mess around with this, it isn't worth it.


----------



## aindriu80 (Sep 15, 2012)

some very helpful posts there but I don't know much of the technical terms. I think I will get the €30 replacement and have to go to a LBS and get them to fit it for me. It shouldn't be rocket science to just take the top cap part off. 

I had the bike out today for a 50k and it was sweet, my neck is still a bit sore but I am not going to try and adjust the head set.


----------



## Diopena1 (Jul 21, 2011)

well, not to confuse the OP more than he could be, I would use this chart to measure out his stem positioning. I used it because I got an early Birthday gift in the form of a really nice stem with 0 degree rise. I originally was using -7 degree rise. I used this in order to figure out how to drop the stem, and get a pretty close fit on the bike. BTW, my original stem was 110mm, we increased it to 120mm. I am also on a Cannondale supersix, so I know that stem cap is a pain sometimes.

http://alex.phred.org/stemchart/Default.aspx


----------



## aindriu80 (Sep 15, 2012)

Im not sure on the stem positioning. One company told me it was this part










https://qwertycycles.co.uk/products/cannondale-expander-wedge-kp017

It looks and sounds right but have to ask about Allen keys since there seems to be 2 sizes to loosen it.


----------



## bikerjulio (Jan 19, 2010)

It looks like the right thing.

OP, please don't touch this with an Allen key. Let a professional do it.

Nothing personal, but since you don't seem to have a clue, just leave it alone and perhaps watch and learn from someone who knows what they are doing.


----------



## aindriu80 (Sep 15, 2012)

bikerjulio said:


> It looks like the right thing.
> 
> OP, please don't touch this with an Allen key. Let a professional do it.
> 
> Nothing personal, but since you don't seem to have a clue, just leave it alone and perhaps watch and learn from someone who knows what they are doing.


Yeah well I was trying to understand the process better. Not too many bike shops nearby


----------



## bikerjulio (Jan 19, 2010)

aindriu80 said:


> Yeah well I was trying to understand the process better. Not too many bike shops nearby


I think that we should all learn to work on our bikes, but gradually. You happened to have picked one of the most misunderstood bits of a modern bike, and an area with serious safety implications. Especially if you are a ham-fisted newb


----------



## aindriu80 (Sep 15, 2012)

bikerjulio said:


> I think that we should all learn to work on our bikes, but gradually. You happened to have picked one of the most misunderstood bits of a modern bike, and an area with serious safety implications. Especially if you are a ham-fisted newb


I will do as there are parts on the bike that I might change in the future. Ham fisted or not I have to do something with it. I'm getting instructions from the supplier tomorrow and I will post them to get some feedback.


----------



## Diopena1 (Jul 21, 2011)

Save you a trip to the Bike shop:
http://cdn.cannondale.com/manuals/2011_webOMS_01_english/2011_webOMS_126884_SuperSixEVO_EN.pdf

This is for an EVO, but they are all pretty much setup the same. I have a 2011 Supersix, and this document applies.


----------



## bikerjulio (Jan 19, 2010)

If even the pro's can screw up like this, think what you could do


----------



## Diopena1 (Jul 21, 2011)

bikerjulio said:


> If even the pro's can screw up like this, think what you could do


OUCH...

I agree that if its a bit alien to you, leave it alone, try to look it up (google is an awesome resource), you can find a lot of info here. I used to work at a bike shop, so working on my own rig is second nature to me. I confess that I don't have a torque wrench, but, I do not overtighten my stuff. I mash on my pedals just as hard as the next guy, and prefer safety over anything else. 
If you already are questioning your abilities, buy the part, take it to a trained professional, and watch (this should take about 5 minutes to install BTW). 

Don't try this yourself, I'd hate to read later on a thread that the part failed due to improper installation.


----------



## aindriu80 (Sep 15, 2012)

Diopena1 said:


> Save you a trip to the Bike shop:
> http://cdn.cannondale.com/manuals/2011_webOMS_01_english/2011_webOMS_126884_SuperSixEVO_EN.pdf
> 
> This is for an EVO, but they are all pretty much setup the same. I have a 2011 Supersix, and this document applies.


Thanks very much. I went to page 16 and there is a diagram on KP017 that's easy to understand which matches up the details I have. It will save me a trip to the LBS.

I was told from the company selling the KP017 part :

_I have checked the Allen key sizes and the inner size to tighten into the steertube is a size 5 and the black top cap is a size 6. Hope this helps._

The KP017 is quite stiff to loosen and all I ever got it to do was raise it a height of a finger before checking out the rounded Allen key thread and putting it back flush. If I manage to take it out completely can I just put I in the replacement back in ?


----------



## Ripton (Apr 21, 2011)

aindriu80 said:


> Thanks very much. I went to page 16 and there is a diagram on KP017 that's easy to understand which matches up the details I have. It will save me a trip to the LBS.
> 
> I was told from the company selling the KP017 part :
> 
> ...


Can I suggest that if you are going to carry on with this you should get yourself some high quality allen keys first. There's a lot of shite out there and a good set will be somewhat more forgiving.

Something like these. It's worth spending the money on, they'll last a long time if they're not abused. (Only use the ball end when access is limited and avoid applying too much toque.)


----------



## bikerjulio (Jan 19, 2010)

OP is just going to flip the stem. For this you can leave the expander plug in place (no touch!), and just replace the top cap. Top cap is alloy, and not needing too much torque as its primary function is to preload the bearings just right. When that is done, you can then straighten and tighten the stem (carefully).


----------



## aindriu80 (Sep 15, 2012)

Ripton said:


> Can I suggest that if you are going to carry on with this you should get yourself some high quality allen keys first. There's a lot of shite out there and a good set will be somewhat more forgiving.
> 
> Something like these. It's worth spending the money on, they'll last a long time if they're not abused. (Only use the ball end when access is limited and avoid applying too much toque.)


They are €11 each and I would need 2, not cheap. The part itself (i ordered one this morning) cost me €16 including delivery. I guess the long length of the key helps but I had short ones and had to apply quite a bit of pressure. Also I would have put in the short end and use the long length to apply pressure.


----------



## Ripton (Apr 21, 2011)

You've spent however much on an Evo and state that you want to work on it yourself in the future yet you balk at the thought of buying a couple of decent allen keys that might just prevent you fecking up your bike? Good luck.


----------



## bikerjulio (Jan 19, 2010)

Ripton said:


> You've spent however much on an Evo and state that you want to work on it yourself in the future yet you balk at the thought of buying a couple of decent allen keys that might just prevent you fecking up your bike? Good luck.


agree

This thread has given me reason to think about the ethics of helping.

One wants to help a fellow cyclist. Yet is it really "helping" by trying to instruct an obviously unknowledgeable and inexperienced person who has already demonstrated a ham fisted approach to bicycle work, on how to fiddle with a part of the bike that really does have serious safety repercussions if not done correctly.

Everyone has to learn, as I did. But OP needs to approach this with a willingness to learn and invest in the necessary tools, or else leave things alone and leave it to a professional.


----------



## aindriu80 (Sep 15, 2012)

I was just looking at the price for the allen keys, €11 each thats €22 when the part itself cost me €16. I didn't make any decisions yet as to how to assemble it, maybe I can get someone to do it for me. A full Allen key set for a decent price might just do it for me though, I will check it out on Amazon.

I'm learning lots on this thread already and thanks very much !

**edit, what about something like this
Draper 36000 30-Piece Hex Key Set and Case: Amazon.co.uk: DIY & Tools

Should the Allen keys have specific ends like tampered or rounded ?


----------



## Ripton (Apr 21, 2011)

I wouldn't compare the cost of the tools against the cost of the part. They're an investment against the cost of your bike.

That said, the Draper set will be of reasonable quality - they'll do the job perfectly well - cheaper allen keys will never be quite as good fit as quality tool. The main benefit of the type I suggested is the comfort of the plastic handles and the ball end for awkward access. Personally, I prefer something like this so that I can also use them with a torque wrench (another piece of kit that you might want to consider as being essential for maintaining a high end bike - regular allen keys are fine for undoing things but over tightening things, especially on a carbon fibre bike can be expensive).


----------



## mik_git (Jul 27, 2012)

OP you do realise that the allen keys will fit other parts of your bike... parts that you will need to work on in the future, or maybe you can keep using what you have and strip every bolt on your bike...

I generally use a multi tool, not perfect, but I seem to have "lost" many allen keys, but all the main ones I have some good ones as well.


----------



## Diopena1 (Jul 21, 2011)

I have a Topeak alien, works well, and rarely do I need any other tools for my bike


----------

