# Michelin pro race 3 tires



## Doc_D (Mar 16, 2006)

I picked up a set of these off of ebay. Maybe it's just me but it took me like 3 hours to get these tires on! I was putting these on dura ace wheels (not the new carbon wheels).

Anyone else have these yet? Are these tires REALLY tight or is it just me?


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## CleavesF (Dec 31, 2007)

this is when I ask... what's the width?


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## Michelin Bicycle Tech (Nov 14, 2007)

Doc_D said:


> I picked up a set of these off of ebay. Maybe it's just me but it took me like 3 hours to get these tires on! I was putting these on dura ace wheels (not the new carbon wheels).
> 
> Anyone else have these yet? Are these tires REALLY tight or is it just me?


Not to sound mean or anything like that, but are you sure they are Pro3 Race tires? The only reason I ask this is because we have not released them yet in the US. The only way to get a pair is to buy a Giant bike which they some OE on. Just curious.

The Pro3's that I have mounted were never an issue on the rims (I have a set and have mounted a bunch for Interbike and other shows) and I have never really had an issue. I think it all depends on the tolerances of your rims. I mount my personal set on Mavic Kysriums and the shows on a Dura-Ace rim and have never had a problem.


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## Ronman (Feb 12, 2007)

Michelin Man,
Of course this begs the question; when can we expect to see these for sale in the U.S.? The rear Pro2 on my bike has about 1,500 miles left on it, so I'm hoping to replace it with a Pro3 within the next 2 months.


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## Doc_D (Mar 16, 2006)

Michelin Man said:


> Not to sound mean or anything like that, but are you sure they are Pro3 Race tires?


You tell me... 










They are 700x23.


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## Michelin Bicycle Tech (Nov 14, 2007)

Doc_D said:


> You tell me...
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Yep, it sure does seem to me that they are Pro3 Races. I know some people have been selling the Limited Edition tires we released last year as the Pro3's. Thats why I ask. The seller must have got them as part of a complete bike and has traded them out.

I know you said you had a hard time getting them one, but once they were on, how did you like them??


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## Michelin Bicycle Tech (Nov 14, 2007)

Ronman said:


> Michelin Man,
> Of course this begs the question; when can we expect to see these for sale in the U.S.? The rear Pro2 on my bike has about 1,500 miles left on it, so I'm hoping to replace it with a Pro3 within the next 2 months.


They will be hitting stores sometime in the spring. unfortunately, I don't have an exact date for you, but if you have 2 months or so left on your current tire, you _should_ (don't quote me on that) be ok.


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## Doc_D (Mar 16, 2006)

Michelin Man said:


> ... how did you like them??


I won't know until spring. I think it's like 13 degrees here with 40 mph winds. I'm a big baby and won't ride outside until it's 45+. I'm just building a new bike for myself and a new bike for my girlfriend over the winter. I really liked my Pro 2s but my girlfriend's bike is inheriting my wheels/tires. So for my new tires I thought I'd go with the Pro 3s. 

For whatever reason the Pro 3's were really tough to get on. The pro 2's I had were also on dura ace wheels and were no problem. I wonder if it had anything to do with the temps. I put my pro 2's on out in a 90 degree garage. The Pro 3s were put on in a 68 degree house.


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## ctracer01 (Jan 5, 2006)

do you have the new tubeless system? i don't know the specifics, but maybe shimano designed the rims to be tight to accomodate the stress of the tubeless tires


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## Michelin Bicycle Tech (Nov 14, 2007)

Doc_D said:


> I won't know until spring. I think it's like 13 degrees here with 40 mph winds. I'm a big baby and won't ride outside until it's 45+. I'm just building a new bike for myself and a new bike for my girlfriend over the winter. I really liked my Pro 2s but my girlfriend's bike is inheriting my wheels/tires. So for my new tires I thought I'd go with the Pro 3s.
> 
> For whatever reason the Pro 3's were really tough to get on. The pro 2's I had were also on dura ace wheels and were no problem. I wonder if it had anything to do with the temps. I put my pro 2's on out in a 90 degree garage. The Pro 3s were put on in a 68 degree house.


I don't think the temps were the issue with getting it on the rim. I keep all my wheels, tires, tubes, and bikes in my unfinished, uninsulated basement all the time (unless I am using them on the trainer or riding them outside) and I have not had an issue with the temps and I can say that my basement is WAY colder then 68 degrees.

As mentioned by ctracer01, could it be that you have the new Dura-Ace Tubeless wheels? If that is the case, they do make a tighter rim tolerance for the tubeless system, and no, the Pro3 Race tires are not tubeless. 

Another thing to think about is that when taking off the old Pro2 Races, it might be that the bead is a bit stretched out from always having the tire on the rim. You might be able to get a little stretch out of the new tire by mounting the tire completely without a tube in it and let it set. That will help the bead a bit. Then un-mount the one side, and remount with a tube in it. That way, you can use a lever (if careful) to get the tire on the first time without harming a tube.

Hope this all helps.


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## Doc_D (Mar 16, 2006)

The dura ace wheels I picked up off ebay. They are new, but were from 2006. They look just like my older dura ace wheels, so I don't believe they are tubeless.

Not only did I need to use tire levers to get these on, I thought I was going to break the levers. And occasionally one of the levers would shoot across the room as I was working with the second lever. That's how tight these tires were. I'm not exagerating it took me 3 hours to do 2 tires. Part of that is because I popped a tube with the lever and had to start over again from scratch.

I am a little concerned that if I flat (which is a very rare occurance for me) it'll take me forever to get it fixed on the side of the road. Plus I popped one tube trying to get these on because I had to use levers. So it also worries me that if I flat, I might then pop my spare in the process of replacing it.


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## Michelin Bicycle Tech (Nov 14, 2007)

Doc_D said:


> The dura ace wheels I picked up off ebay. They are new, but were from 2006. They look just like my older dura ace wheels, so I don't believe they are tubeless.
> 
> Not only did I need to use tire levers to get these on, I thought I was going to break the levers. And occasionally one of the levers would shoot across the room as I was working with the second lever. That's how tight these tires were. I'm not exagerating it took me 3 hours to do 2 tires. Part of that is because I popped a tube with the lever and had to start over again from scratch.
> 
> I am a little concerned that if I flat (which is a very rare occurance for me) it'll take me forever to get it fixed on the side of the road. Plus I popped one tube trying to get these on because I had to use levers. So it also worries me that if I flat, I might then pop my spare in the process of replacing it.


If you have the tires mounted up with the tubes in them, inflate them to 115 psi and let them sit. That should stretch things out a bit and make them a bit easier to get on and off. Also, something that might help a little. When mounting a tires, always end at the valve stem. This will give you the most "slack" in the tire possible.


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## Michelin Bicycle Tech (Nov 14, 2007)

Doc_D said:


> I picked up a set of these off of ebay. Maybe it's just me but it took me like 3 hours to get these tires on! I was putting these on dura ace wheels (not the new carbon wheels).
> 
> Anyone else have these yet? Are these tires REALLY tight or is it just me?


Figured I would update you a little on this one. Today I spent my day at the Mavic US headquarters mounting up all their tires for neutral support. In the 2 hours we were there, we mounted about 85 Pro3 Race tires on their support wheels. Out of all the tires and the guys mounting them, not a single lever was used.

I mentioned this just because the tire must just be rough on the Dura-Ace rim. Like I mentioned before, try stretching out the bead on it. Every other time you mount it, it should be easier and easier...


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## cpark (Oct 13, 2004)

Doc_D said:


> I picked up a set of these off of ebay. Maybe it's just me but it took me like 3 hours to get these tires on! I was putting these on dura ace wheels (not the new carbon wheels).
> 
> Anyone else have these yet? Are these tires REALLY tight or is it just me?


I think it's the rims.
It takes me a lot more time and force to put my tires on Dura Ace 7800 wheelset vs putting the same tires on a set of Fulcrum Zero is a breeze....


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## richphoto (Jan 19, 2007)

cpark said:


> I think it's the rims.
> It takes me a lot more time and force to put my tires on Dura Ace 7800 wheelset vs putting the same tires on a set of Fulcrum Zero is a breeze....


Yeah I can hand mount on my Fulcrum zeros but had to use levers on my Mavics.
I have been running the conti 4000 S for about 3000 miles now and even though I love them I think the pro 2's I had on right after the build were just silky smooth and am considering now trying the 3's. I sure wish you guys would make a all black tire though.


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## Michelin Bicycle Tech (Nov 14, 2007)

richphoto said:


> I sure wish you guys would make a all black tire though.


We will be making an all black tire which will be available later in the summer.


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## richphoto (Jan 19, 2007)

thank you thank you thank you


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## BlackSteel (Jul 10, 2007)

*Pro Race 3 Flat Protect etc.*

Some people are telling me to buy the Specialized All Condition Elite Armadillo tire. I have been using Pro Race 2's for years now. My question is is the flat resistance improved on the Pro Race 3? I do get a few flats here and there on the Pro Race 2's. I have no complaints about the flats but there it would be nice to get the miles that many some of the Armadillo riders are claiming to get too. 
I also had some mounting issues with the 25mm Pro Race 2. I have two bikes that have DT Swiss RR1 rims. I had a very hard time getting the tires on these wheels even with a lever. Then I mounted the Pro Race 2's on some Mavic Open Pro rims and I didn't even need a lever.


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## Michelin Bicycle Tech (Nov 14, 2007)

BlackSteel said:


> Some people are telling me to buy the Specialized All Condition Elite Armadillo tire. I have been using Pro Race 2's for years now. My question is is the flat resistance improved on the Pro Race 3? I do get a few flats here and there on the Pro Race 2's. I have no complaints about the flats but there it would be nice to get the miles that many some of the Armadillo riders are claiming to get too.
> I also had some mounting issues with the 25mm Pro Race 2. I have two bikes that have DT Swiss RR1 rims. I had a very hard time getting the tires on these wheels even with a lever. Then I mounted the Pro Race 2's on some Mavic Open Pro rims and I didn't even need a lever.


The puncture protector that is in the Pro3 Race is the same that is in the Pro2 Race.

For getting the tires on certain rims, there is nothing that can really be done about that. We make our tires to a certain spec and the rim manufacturers make their rims to their spec. As you can see, sometimes they differ a bit. Most of the time, they differ in the drop center of the rim and also the height of the brake surface. With those 2 "features" in mind, that is why some tires are harder to get on some rims. The best thing to do if you are putting a new tire on a rim that you know will be difficult to mount, mount it on the rim first without a tube. This will help to stretch that bead out a little and you will not be able to pinch flat the tube being there isn't one in it. After you mount it and let it sit for a few minutes, take one side of it off the rim and mount it up with the tube. It won't stretch it out a ton, but it should help enough to let you easily mount it with a tube in it.

Hope this helps.


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## zac (Aug 5, 2005)

Michelin Man said:


> The puncture protector that is in the Pro3 Race is the same that is in the Pro2 Race.
> 
> For getting the tires on certain rims, there is nothing that can really be done about that. We make our tires to a certain spec and the rim manufacturers make their rims to their spec. As you can see, sometimes they differ a bit. Most of the time, they differ in the drop center of the rim and also the height of the brake surface. With those 2 "features" in mind, that is why some tires are harder to get on some rims. The best thing to do if you are putting a new tire on a rim that you know will be difficult to mount, mount it on the rim first without a tube. This will help to stretch that bead out a little and you will not be able to pinch flat the tube being there isn't one in it. After you mount it and let it sit for a few minutes, take one side of it off the rim and mount it up with the tube. It won't stretch it out a ton, but it should help enough to let you easily mount it with a tube in it.
> 
> Hope this helps.


I am trying out a set of the Pro3s. (Mounted on Bonty Race X Lites, Miche A1 Aircomp butyl tubes at 114psi for a 79kg rider + bike weight.)

Good clincher tire, yes tough to mount, but they will go on with some thumb and elbow grease. Stretching them for a day or so on a spare set of rims helps too.

Flat resistance: ? Argh, I flatted my rear in the first 50 miles. A 1/16" x 1/8" piece of sandy silca based stone bit through the gray tread. I was a bit disappointed that this was able to get through (it must have been pointed up just right in a road crack or something.) 
I am sure I just had some bad luck.It ate through, as I didn't blow out, but it was a slow (30 second) flat with some abrasion on the tube. So the good thing was the tire was fighting the puncture, I suppose. But you always hate to flat a brand new tire and tube.

Weight is great. Mine were 211grams which puts them lighter than both the Bonty X Lites and the Conty GP4000s.

Rolling: I can't tell the difference other than the Bontys and the Miches roll nice and about the same, the Contys tend to feel sluggish (grab a bit).

Grab: Cornering is confident. Better than the Bontys, similar to the Contys on hard turns.

Wet roads: I haven't pushed them hard in the wet (cornering), as I didn't get them for that purpose. So someone else can chime in on that score.

All in all, I paid $40 a tire, good price for a top end tire.

I need to get some serious miles on them to see about durability and "tread" life. As to puncture resistance, I just had bad luck, can't really decide until I gone a solid season plus on several sets to see how they hold.

Michelin Man, what sort of mileage have you been seeing with them? In season (good clean road) riding I would be happy with 2k miles (and more on a front to rear swap). 

zac


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## Michelin Bicycle Tech (Nov 14, 2007)

zac said:


> Michelin Man, what sort of mileage have you been seeing with them? In season (good clean road) riding I would be happy with 2k miles (and more on a front to rear swap).
> 
> zac


Zac, 
Good review. For mileage, it is tough for me to give you an exact number. Mileage for me will be different than the mileage you get. It all depends on rider weight, rider ability, road conditions and a various other things. I can say, that from all the testing that has been done, you should expect to see the same amount of miles that you get from the Pro2 Races. If you got 2K out of them, we are expecting the same. If you got 3k, we are expecting the same. If you got 1K, we are expecting.....well you get the idea.


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## zac (Aug 5, 2005)

Michelin Man said:


> Zac,
> Good review. For mileage, it is tough for me to give you an exact number. Mileage for me will be different than the mileage you get. It all depends on rider weight, rider ability, road conditions and a various other things. I can say, that from all the testing that has been done, you should expect to see the same amount of miles that you get from the Pro2 Races. If you got 2K out of them, we are expecting the same. If you got 3k, we are expecting the same. If you got 1K, we are expecting.....well you get the idea.



Thanks, so true. Only time will tell.

Suggestion box time: Check one vote for an all black one. 

Thanks for responding
zac


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## Michelin Bicycle Tech (Nov 14, 2007)

zac said:


> Thanks, so true. Only time will tell.
> 
> Suggestion box time: Check one vote for an all black one.
> 
> ...


Votes tallied and there will be an all black tire coming out later this year.


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## pedal2tahoe (Nov 10, 2006)

I've logged thousands of happy miles on the pro race2 tires, and did not have any issues with them. Was excited to try the pro 3's. I've got some miles/races under them, and have noticed the following differences:

-The pro 3's have a bouncy-feel (like a 25cm) at the same pressure I ran the pro2's.
- The pro 3's do corner much better than the pro2's (I thought the 2's cornered good).
- I like the fact that they are lighter, and you can definitely feel the diff. unmounted.
- I seem to have picked up more cuts in the 3's/ seem a little less durable/ but have not flatted yet.

I wasn't too excited at first, but have really learned to like these things, and the additional cornering performance they provide.

Seems like a 20cm version of these would really kick some a$$.

People that have had trouble mounting these have obviously never tried mounting a conti supersonic.......

It sounds crazy, but talc powder actually makes a tight tire slip on easier, with less tube-pinch, and it smells great-


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## DMFT (Feb 3, 2005)

*Anyone else having durability issues?*

I'm (so far) undecided on what I think of the Pro3's....

1 PAIR lasted only 250 miles on dry, pretty clean California roads. My Wheels are brand new Rolf's, Tube's are Talc'd Turbo UL's from Specialized and now on my second pair of Pro3's with 1 ride on them I have a rear flat on somewhat clean Santa Cruz mountain roads.

All 4 Tires went right on without levers on my Roval Carbon Clinchers and my Rolf Elan's btw... but as a former shop-guy there's not many tire/rim combos that give me trouble from years changing tires/tubes.

My .02$


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## Kestreljr (Jan 10, 2007)

DMFT said:


> I'm (so far) undecided on what I think of the Pro3's....
> 
> 1 PAIR lasted only 250 miles on dry, pretty clean California roads.


Do you mean 2,500 miles? If your tires only lasted 250 miles, then you either weigh 6,000lbs, or... hell I don't know- you got a defective tire? There is no way that any modern road tire would only last 250 miles.


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## Michelin Bicycle Tech (Nov 14, 2007)

Kestreljr said:


> Do you mean 2,500 miles? If your tires only lasted 250 miles, then you either weigh 6,000lbs, or... hell I don't know- you got a defective tire? There is no way that any modern road tire would only last 250 miles.


That's a pretty valid point. I would take it back to the shop you got it from and see about a possible warranty on the tire. Those tires certainly should be able to take more than 250 miles on them.


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## messyparrot (Sep 17, 2007)

I have yet to have any tire make it past 1,000 miles.

Something always rips/cuts them open.


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## Michelin Bicycle Tech (Nov 14, 2007)

messyparrot said:


> I have yet to have any tire make it past 1,000 miles.
> 
> Something always rips/cuts them open.


Something there is not right. Just about any tire (one of Michelin's or any other companies) should get you more than 1000 miles. Do you check them after every ride and clean them up (remove any debris stuck in them)??


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## messyparrot (Sep 17, 2007)

Seriously I have been trying to do that more as it is getting expensive.

I never used to wash my tires, but now I do and inspect them well.

I do have a Michelin pro 2 on the front with 200 on it so far so good with only one small 3mm cut.

We simply have very potholed roads in WI, that combined with riding before light and running over stuff.


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## Kestreljr (Jan 10, 2007)

messyparrot said:


> We simply have very potholed roads in WI, that combined with riding before light and running over stuff.


I ride about 6 to 12 inches to the left of the white line. Do you ride on the shoulder? I haven't spent any riding time in that part of the country- but there has to be a solution.


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## messyparrot (Sep 17, 2007)

Sounds about where I ride, I had a marsh reed completely go up and through ripping up my last Vittoria tire. Now I have one Vittoria and one Michelin pro 2 on. 

I have never had so many flats as this year, and 3 tires.


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## DMFT (Feb 3, 2005)

Kestreljr said:


> Do you mean 2,500 miles? If your tires only lasted 250 miles, then you either weigh 6,000lbs, or... hell I don't know- you got a defective tire? There is no way that any modern road tire would only last 250 miles.


- No, I mean't 250 miles. And no, I'm not 6,000 lbs. actually closer to 180, been seriously riding road for 10 years & am a former pro wrench. I once had a pair of Conti's last about the same mileage.

I am shocked at the lack of durability of these tires so far.


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## DMFT (Feb 3, 2005)

Michelin Man said:


> That's a pretty valid point. I would take it back to the shop you got it from and see about a possible warranty on the tire. Those tires certainly should be able to take more than 250 miles on them.


- Specialized is the ONLY company I have ever heard/known of that has warranteed tires...

You are right, they should be able to handle many more miles.... Pro Race 2's have only let me down 1 time and that was a freak deal, I really don't know what to think of the 3's so far.


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## edorwart (Aug 9, 2007)

DMFT said:


> - No, I mean't 250 miles. And no, I'm not 6,000 lbs. actually closer to 180, been seriously riding road for 10 years & am a former pro wrench. I once had a pair of Conti's last about the same mileage.
> 
> I am shocked at the lack of durability of these tires so far.


I have over 1,000 miles on PR3's so far this summer and aside from a few very small cuts that happened on one of my first rides with them they have held up great. I imagine I will get another 1,000 miles at least barring a majot puncture.

I generally ride 40-80 miles at a time and always check my tires for debris after every ride. I have found small bits of glass embedded in cuts that were only noticable when I deflated the tire and pinched the cut. I would imagine if I did not dif it out that it would have worked its way through the tire. I do this once a week. A little extra examination sure beats fixing a tire on the side of the road a 6:00 AM.

I weigh 185 pounds and ride open roads.


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## highsugar (Apr 14, 2006)

*Pro 3 race.*

Any chance of bringing back the Pro 2? PLEEAASE??? Or,...anyone know of some secret stock? I would be willing to invest big
Any suggestions for a good replacement? So far not impressed with what I'm hearing about the 3s


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## Blade-Runner (Jun 4, 2008)

1,800+ miles on West Texas roads, zero issues; still lovin' them!


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## cpark (Oct 13, 2004)

highsugar said:


> Any chance of bringing back the Pro 2? PLEEAASE??? Or,...anyone know of some secret stock? I would be willing to invest big
> Any suggestions for a good replacement? So far not impressed with what I'm hearing about the 3s


eBay

http://sporting-goods.search.ebay.c...e-Parts_W0QQcatrefZC12QQfromZR40QQsacatZ42318


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## mcwenzel (Jun 9, 2006)

I used Pro Race 2's for three years with only one or two flats and very good durability. My buddy and I both decided to upgrade to Pro Race 3's. I flatted on my first ride and the front tire has so many cuts I had to toss it at about 500 miles or less. My friends front tire is also shot at about 500 miles. The small pieces of glass that got into both tires seemed to have an extremely damaging effect to the integrity of the tire itself. 

Both of our rears had several cuts but were still barely usuable. This is in the San Francisco Bay Area, generally dry surface riding.

I am done with the Pro 3's. At this pace of replacement I would be spending far more on bicycle tires than car tires. We are both contemplating making warranty claimes of some kind with Michelin. 

It's really too bad, because the tires do handle tremendously. I swapped the Pro Race 3 out and put on Michelin Krylions that I purchased on ebay - and they are much more durable and do not show similar cuts after about 1000 miles. They hardly show any cuts at all. Unfortunately they don't handle nearly as well as the Pro Race 2 or 3, and I almost went down in the heavy mist/fog yesterday on the Golden Gate Bridge when the tire started to slip out from under me unexpectedly.


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## highsugar (Apr 14, 2006)

PLEASE Michelin!! Don't do this to us! I would gladly pay more for the pro 2 and it's all-around attributes.
Again, if anyone knows of a comparable tire to the 2.....


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## tconrady (May 1, 2007)

mcwenzel said:


> The small pieces of glass that got into both tires seemed to have an extremely damaging effect to the integrity of the tire itself.


I can totally relate to your frustration but why tempt fate and ride in or near broken glass? If you must ride near it then it sounds like you really haven't selected the proper type of tire for your riding needs. It sounds like you need a tire made primarily for durability and puncture resistance instead of a performance tire with some minor durability attributes added.

Just my $.02 worth.


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## tconrady (May 1, 2007)

highsugar said:


> Any chance of bringing back the Pro 2? PLEEAASE??? Or,...anyone know of some secret stock? I would be willing to invest big
> Any suggestions for a good replacement? So far not impressed with what I'm hearing about the 3s


Quit worrying too much about what others are saying. There are plenty of people that do like it but aren't telling every last person about it. If you want to try them then do. It's a tire for your bicycle for God's sakes. It's not a lifetime committment or anything.


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## mcwenzel (Jun 9, 2006)

tconrady said:


> I can totally relate to your frustration but why tempt fate and ride in or near broken glass? If you must ride near it then it sounds like you really haven't selected the proper type of tire for your riding needs. It sounds like you need a tire made primarily for durability and puncture resistance instead of a performance tire with some minor durability attributes added.
> 
> Just my $.02 worth.


I ride the most common road rides in the San Francisco Bay Area. Sometimes there is broken glass, which I obviously try to avoid. But this is no different than the last few years, the only difference to me seems to be the durability of the Pro Race 2 vs. 3. Perhaps the Pro Race 3 are not suited for the San Francisco Bay Area.


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## tconrady (May 1, 2007)

mcwenzel said:


> I ride the most common road rides in the San Francisco Bay Area. Sometimes there is broken glass, which I obviously try to avoid. But this is no different than the last few years, the only difference to me seems to be the durability of the Pro Race 2 vs. 3. Perhaps the Pro Race 3 are not suited for the San Francisco Bay Area.


I wouldn't necessarily say that. I wasn't trying to be cute with my last post but it might've come off that way. It seems like there are a lot of riders that tend to go for a performance tire when that isn't exactly what fits their needs. I did reread your post after I submitted mine and saw where you have been running the Pro2s previously. I was basing my response on my experience with that tire, tires in general and this quote by MichelinMan.



MichelinMan said:


> The puncture protector that is in the Pro3 Race is the same that is in the Pro2 Race.


If that's the case then you theoretically should've had the same problem with the Pro2s. I've got about 800 miles on my Pro3s with no problems and I've been riding over all sorts of different pavement...asphalt, rough concrete, sandy/gritty MUTs, cracked roads, and some small/mild gravel. The only thing I really haven't gone over is any rough chipseal. I'll most likely do that in the next couple of weeks when I go ride out around Cheaha mountain in AL. Mine are showing minimal wear and I've only got one little cut...more like a nic....on the rear tire. I'm no lightweight either. I'm usually around 200 lbs but have been eating a lot the last couple of weeks and weighed in at 210 today.

Bad luck is bad luck no matter what kind of tire you're spinning. I've had other makes and models of tires give out with low milage for no other reason than just plain bad luck. You can get MichelinMan to confirm or deny it but I feel reasonably sure that if it punctured your Pro3s with this example then it would've also punctured your Pro2s.


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## edorwart (Aug 9, 2007)

I can tell you that the PR3's work well in the wet. Rode 62 miles at an 18.3 average yesterday most of it in the rain and never did I once feel my tire slip. At some point the water was so thick on the rode I thought that if I was driving my car it would be hydroplaning but not on the bike!


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## PegLeg (Jun 28, 2008)

highsugar said:


> Any chance of bringing back the Pro 2? PLEEAASE??? Or,...anyone know of some secret stock? I would be willing to invest big
> Any suggestions for a good replacement? So far not impressed with what I'm hearing about the 3s


BikeTiresDirect has a bunch of the Pro 2 for $39.95
http://www.biketiresdirect.com/productdetail.asp?p=MIP2R


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## Michelin Bicycle Tech (Nov 14, 2007)

tconrady said:


> Bad luck is bad luck no matter what kind of tire you're spinning. I've had other makes and models of tires give out with low milage for no other reason than just plain bad luck. You can get MichelinMan to confirm or deny it but I feel reasonably sure that if it punctured your Pro3s with this example then it would've also punctured your Pro2s.


I am not confirming nor denying anything. It is SO hard to tell exactly what would have happened with a different tire. Would you have hit it at the same speed, would the glass be laying in the same angle, would you have been leaning slightly to one side or another, etc etc etc. The best thing I can say is that hopefully it was bad luck. Just as was quoted, it is the same puncture protector in the Pro3 Race that was/is in the Pro2 Race.


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## Michelin Bicycle Tech (Nov 14, 2007)

highsugar said:


> PLEASE Michelin!! Don't do this to us! I would gladly pay more for the pro 2 and it's all-around attributes.
> Again, if anyone knows of a comparable tire to the 2.....


If you are looking looking for a Michelin tire that is more durable, I would suggest the Krylion Carbon. It is made with the same casing, but has a slightly different puncture protector (the Krylion Carbon's goes from bead to bead where the Pro3 Race's is just under the tread) and also will get a bit better mileage. The downside from the Pro3 Race to the Krylion Carbon is that the Carbon does weigh a bit more (200g. vs 235g) and it has a bit less grip in the wet.


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## mcwenzel (Jun 9, 2006)

Michelin Man said:


> I am not confirming nor denying anything. It is SO hard to tell exactly what would have happened with a different tire. Would you have hit it at the same speed, would the glass be laying in the same angle, would you have been leaning slightly to one side or another, etc etc etc. The best thing I can say is that hopefully it was bad luck. Just as was quoted, it is the same puncture protector in the Pro3 Race that was/is in the Pro2 Race.


I thought that the the Pro3 Race casing "gains a new High Density Puncture Protector (HDPP)" over the Pro2 Race? That is what the advertising materials state.


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## Michelin Bicycle Tech (Nov 14, 2007)

mcwenzel said:


> I thought that the the Pro3 Race casing "gains a new High Density Puncture Protector (HDPP)" over the Pro2 Race? That is what the advertising materials state.


I would like to see that 99.9% of marketing material as all of it comes out of my office.


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## MCJ (Oct 8, 2002)

*Pro3 more flat prone?*

I hate to be one to ***** about an otherwise great tire but I am also getting more than my normal number of flats. Did the last two years on Pro2's without a flat and now 3 flats on Pro3's this year. Not happy.


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## mcwenzel (Jun 9, 2006)

mcwenzel said:


> I thought that the the Pro3 Race casing "gains a new High Density Puncture Protector (HDPP)" over the Pro2 Race? That is what the advertising materials state.





Michelin Man said:


> I would like to see that 99.9% of marketing material as all of it comes out of my office.


That is a direct quote from Bike Tires Direct, Competitive Cyclist and Colorado Cyclist. I presumed that the information came from Michelin. I certainly considered it when I purchased my tires from Bike Tires Direct. 

Is that not the case? 

Is there no newly redesigned "High Density Puncture Protection" on the Pro3 Race? 

If there is not a newly redesigned "HDPP" on the Pro3 Race, Michelin should probably contact these resellers as the tires are being advertised as having attributes they don't in fact have. 

Nashbar and Performance Bike also talk about HDPP.


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## tom_h (May 6, 2008)

From Michelin's website- a feature of the pro3 is
*HDPP: High Density Puncture Protector *


https://www.michelinbicycletire.com/michelinbicycle/index.cfm?event=pro3race.view

<TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=2 width=485 border=0><TBODY><TR><TD width=130>







</TD><TD vAlign=top>
*Michelin Pro3 Race™*

<LI class=tech>Co-extruded 100% Silica energy rubber mix for balanced grip and low rolling resistance
ESC-extra supple casing for flexibility, performance and lightweight
















ESC / FB / HDPP / HPRS / SW / DC / SE 

</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE>

*ESC: Extra Supple Casing*– highly flexible, cross-ply carcass with 127 TPI (420 threads/dm²) cord density, a technology used in top-of-the-line tires that helps them achieve the highest levels of performance.

*FB: Flexible beads (foldable tires) *

*HDPP: High Density Puncture Protector *– strong, lightweight, interwoven anti-puncture reinforcement inserted under the center tread.


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## Edster (Aug 22, 2004)

*Pro 3's Update*

Well, after close to 1500 miles of riding these tires, the rear tire suffered a cut/tear where I can see the protective ply. Not sure if these are still good/safe to ride. The roads here in the South/East County of San Diego are a mixed blessing. The rear tire has suffered more micro cuts than the front. I replaced the rear tire with the Krylion Carbon and will continue to run the Pro3 in the front.

I weighed the Krylion on a non-digital scale and it weighed 220g. I weighed the Pro3 and it came in about 200g.

I really like the Pro3's, but the micro cuts, especially in the rear, was a little bothersome as I would have to fill the cuts in with either Superglue or Shoegoo. What I may do is get another wheelset for my weekly Saturday club rides and mount a new pair of Pro3's and use my current wheelset with the Krylion Carbon/Pro3 combination.


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## acid_rider (Nov 23, 2004)

I really dont see any point in using pure racing tyres like Pro3 in non-racing conditions. I use Krylion Carbon or GP4000 black-chili (whichever happens to be cheaper when time comes to buy). I just have to rememeber to take it easy when the road is wet, regardless. But even a pure racing tyre like Pro3 in 23C-width is not exactly confidence inspiring on a wet road! 8^) And you won't notice extra 35grams per tyre unless you are doing a timed/racing hill time trial.


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## Michelin Bicycle Tech (Nov 14, 2007)

mcwenzel said:


> That is a direct quote from Bike Tires Direct, Competitive Cyclist and Colorado Cyclist. I presumed that the information came from Michelin. I certainly considered it when I purchased my tires from Bike Tires Direct.
> 
> Is that not the case?
> 
> ...


The HDPP is not new. It has been something that we have had in our Pro2 Race tires in previous years. We are unclear where the dealers got their information, however Michelin's (myself and others in my office) marketing team is aware of what has been stated and will be taking the proper steps in order to correct any information about our products.

I do want to thank you all for bringing it to my attention. I will do my best to get everything corrected.


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## Michelin Bicycle Tech (Nov 14, 2007)

tom_h said:


> From Michelin's website- a feature of the pro3 is
> *HDPP: High Density Puncture Protector *
> 
> 
> ...


I would like to thank you for posting this before I got a chance.


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## tom_h (May 6, 2008)

I've noticed that when I dig my fingernail into a Pro3 tire, it leaves an shallow indentation that slowly disappears in a few seconds.

"Street" or "training" tires are usually harder and don't exhibit these fingernail indentations.

I guess that's consistent with some of the "complaints" above, that the Pro3 gets "micro cuts". 

There are always trade-offs with any tire (bike, car). One of my cars has high-traction "drag radial" tires-- which only last for 5,000-10,000 miles of normal street driving -- they are very soft and optimized for the drag strip.


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## Kestreljr (Jan 10, 2007)

leviathans_child said:


> well my 2 cents is that if any of us blindly tested race 2's and race 3's without knowing which was which...we'd be left scratching our heads as to the difference
> 
> anyone who says otherwise is a fool


Just because you don't notice a difference doesn't mean they aren't better though. 

Maybe you don't race- then you wouldn't care. I think the Pro Race 3 tires are designed for those that race though.


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## Michelin Bicycle Tech (Nov 14, 2007)

leviathans_child said:


> well my 2 cents is that if any of us blindly tested race 2's and race 3's without knowing which was which...we'd be left scratching our heads as to the difference
> 
> anyone who says otherwise is a fool


I honestly would have to disagree with you on this one. From the first pedal stroke, I felt that these tires were much faster. I also noticed that I could come around a turn at a faster speed (noted on my computer) and with more confidence. Also, I have sold many of these tires, as well as all of my sponsored athletes and I have received numerous complements on how things felt much faster.

I don't think you need to be a racer to notice differences in the 40% more grip noted on the tires. 10% or so might not be noticeable, but 40% is a significant increase in grip.

Just my .02 cents.


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## mcwenzel (Jun 9, 2006)

Michelin Man said:


> I honestly would have to disagree with you on this one. From the first pedal stroke, I felt that these tires were much faster. I also noticed that I could come around a turn at a faster speed (noted on my computer) and with more confidence. Also, I have sold many of these tires, as well as all of my sponsored athletes and I have received numerous complements on how things felt much faster.
> 
> I don't think you need to be a racer to notice differences in the 40% more grip noted on the tires. 10% or so might not be noticeable, but 40% is a significant increase in grip.
> 
> Just my .02 cents.


I am no racer but I completely agree. I immediately noticed the handling prowess, but then again I also noticed decreased puncture resistance despite the fact that the puncture resistance has been stated to be the same.


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## tom_h (May 6, 2008)

On a whim (and against the advice of some others) , I installed a Pro3 Race (700-23C) on my front wheel. I did _not_ "pre stretch" the tire, and it installed fairly easily onto a Shimano WH-R500 wheel.

The rear tire remained unchanged, a Vittoria Zaffiro ("plain", not Zaffiro Pro) 700-25C.

Per Michelin recommendations, I inflated front Pro3 to 115 psi. 
Rear Zaffiro inflated to 105 psi.
(my weight + bike + gear = 198-200 lbs).

I immediately noticed that the narrower Pro3 at 115psi, was *less* "harsh" and more "smooth" than the Zaffiro front at 105 psi. Is this what is meant be a more "supple" tire ??

The front Pro3 also tended to pick up a bit more fine road dirt & sand, and I could sometimes hear a crunchy "gravel/sand" type of sound, whereas the rear Zaffiro was quiter and tended to throw off the debris. I suppose that's consistent with the softer, more "grippy" compound on the Pro3.

Oh, and I'm sure I picked up at least 0.03 MPH average speed ;-)

Anyway, it was very short ride. Will also install a Pro3 on the rear wheel tomorrow, and then take one of my familiar rides.


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## Michelin Bicycle Tech (Nov 14, 2007)

tom_h said:


> I immediately noticed that the narrower Pro3 at 115psi, was *less* "harsh" and more "smooth" than the Zaffiro front at 105 psi. Is this what is meant be a more "supple" tire ??


Yes this is exactly what is meant by a more "supple" ride. This is due to our 127 TPI (I am not sure what the Zaffiro has for comparison) and also due to the riding pressure that you rode at.



tom_h said:


> The front Pro3 also tended to pick up a bit more fine road dirt & sand, and I could sometimes hear a crunchy "gravel/sand" type of sound, whereas the rear Zaffiro was quiter and tended to throw off the debris. I suppose that's consistent with the softer, more "grippy" compound on the Pro3.


This is because of the "grippy" material that is used in the center tread of the tire. The more grip a tire will have, the more it will tend to pick things up. One thing to make note on this, after every ride or even if you ride a dirt road or heavy patch of gravel, wipe the tires of, especially after the ride. This will help prolong the life of the tire.


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## tom_h (May 6, 2008)

Michelin Man said:


> .. Yes this is exactly what is meant by a more "supple" ride. This is due to our *127 TPI* (I am not sure what the Zaffiro has for comparison) and also due to the riding pressure that you rode at....


The Zaffiro tires I removed, are spec'ed at just 27 TPI.


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## Amsmoore (Jun 11, 2008)

I am not liking these tires. I've got the front tube protruding about 1/4 " in the sidewall. small puncture in the actual tire. Not losing air, and the tube itself is fine. 

Total mileage? less than 100.


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## jhamlin38 (Oct 29, 2005)

I think its awesome that Michelin man posts here and I greatly appreciate it. I'm currently running Hutchinson Fusion Comps, which are pretty nice, but seem to cut up pretty easily. They feel like a pretty fast, and supple tire, but cornering isn't so confidence inspiring. I don't race, but appreciate faster and lighter stuff.
Would a 25c Pro2 or Pro3 have a wider tread, thus with larger protective area as 25 v 23? My hutchinson have pretty tall sides, which may provide the smooth ride.. But i'm looking for an improvement, but don't want to loose too much durability.


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## ownedbybiggs (Jul 8, 2008)

*Sad*

I don't know what all the hype is about, I just installed my Pro3's did my normal 32mi work trek and honestly....very disappointed, these tires are SLOW!!!!! I averaged almost 3mph slower and it felt like I was riding on 70lbs of prssure, I was so disappointed I almost called into work to go home and put my Vittorias back on. These tires are on sale as of the second they come off the rim. 

You want a quality tire get these: http://www.vittoria.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=8079&Itemid=116


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## livin4lax09 (Mar 15, 2008)

3mph slower from just a tire change? Methinks there's something else at work here...


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## ownedbybiggs (Jul 8, 2008)

It felt like I was riding my mountain bike....I'll give them one more day......


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## tconrady (May 1, 2007)

ownedbybiggs said:


> These tires are on sale as of the second they come off the rim.


PM me if you're gonna get rid of them. I'll buy them off of you if the price is right.


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## cpark (Oct 13, 2004)

ownedbybiggs said:


> I don't know what all the hype is about, I just installed my Pro3's did my normal 32mi work trek and honestly....very disappointed, these tires are SLOW!!!!! I averaged almost 3mph slower and it felt like I was riding on 70lbs of prssure, I was so disappointed I almost called into work to go home and put my Vittorias back on. These tires are on sale as of the second they come off the rim.
> 
> You want a quality tire get these: http://www.vittoria.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=8079&Itemid=116


Your avg speed dropped by 3mph by switching to Pro 3?
You may need to check your computer.....


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## ownedbybiggs (Jul 8, 2008)

It's not the computer, I do the same route everyday to work, I know what speeds each hill has, each flat, with wind, without wind...I avg 17.7-19.2 over my 50mi ride, the 3's netted 14.7 :cryin: ...I put the Vittoria's back on and speeds returned to normal....bottom line, The Pro3's were good for absorbing bumps, had good grip, bad for rolling speed, not to mention the flat spot from where the tire was creased in the package.


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## Oldteen (Sep 7, 2005)

I'm normally more of a Vittoria fan (Rubino Pro's my fav all-around clincher), but the Pro Race series has generally tested out among the best clinchers for rolling resistance (roules, Tour mag, etc.). I have not tried PR3's, but my PR2's roll fast & very smooth compared to my fav Rubino Pros (although don't seem quite as durable).


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## Kestreljr (Jan 10, 2007)

ownedbybiggs said:


> It's not the computer, I do the same route everyday to work, I know what speeds each hill has, each flat, with wind, without wind...I avg 17.7-19.2 over my 50mi ride, the 3's netted 14.7 :cryin: ...I put the Vittoria's back on and speeds returned to normal....bottom line, The Pro3's were good for absorbing bumps, had good grip, bad for rolling speed, not to mention the flat spot from where the tire was creased in the package.



*PLEASE!!! 3mph!!* You are trying to say that you went from one 23mm tire to a different 23mm tire and they slowed you down 3mph. IMO it sounds idiotic to suggest that the top of the line tires that 50% of the pro peleton uses would slow anyone down *3mph. * 

Your tires have to be coated with epoxy, sticking to the ground, there is just NO WAY any 23c road tire you buy from the cheapest ones they sell for $8 a tire to a $100 tire will slow you down 3mph. 

Do you have any idea HOW MUCH 3MPH is!! 

--rant over--

Ride on!:thumbsup:


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## ownedbybiggs (Jul 8, 2008)

Maybe mine were made from batch "B" material, I will give them a few days more just to make sure.....don't like to just piss money away, don't get me wrong, I like the tire, I just think it's slow nuff said


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## Kestreljr (Jan 10, 2007)

ownedbybiggs said:


> Maybe mine were made from batch "B" material, I will give them a few days more just to make sure.....don't like to just piss money away, don't get me wrong, I like the tire, I just think it's slow nuff said


Yeah, I didn't mean any offense. But just sit back and think about it. Really, would they make a tire 3 mph slower? 

They might feel a little more grippy to you then your old tires, but I don't even think you got a "B" material that would slow you down this much. I don't even think that is possible in the first place- unless your tires feel like they are adhesive to the touch.


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## ownedbybiggs (Jul 8, 2008)

Thats why I'm going to give it a few days...now here comes the finger pointing...I was a lil hungover  , and it's so hot and humid I can't really accurately judge the wind, but even that being said, downhill is downhill and it was slower. I have the MS150 ride next weekend, I'll run'em through that and then give an update.


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## dclee (Nov 16, 2004)

Been using the prorace 3s for a couple of months now, some training mainly racing, after switching from prorace 2. They ride harsher than the 2s, imo - I believe largely due to the narrower profile of the 3s versus the 2s. Could discern no noticable difference in grip or rolling resistance. Had no flats yet, but the 3s seem to be prone to cutting, similar to the 2s.


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## Kestreljr (Jan 10, 2007)

ownedbybiggs said:


> Thats why I'm going to give it a few days...now here comes the finger pointing...I was a lil hungover



Hungover huh? 

That might have been relevant...


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## 7.62 (Oct 13, 2006)

I'm still looking forward to trying out the 3's. The 2's gave me over 2,200 miles until my rear tire got a bad cut. And I did ride on some crappy roads. Maybe I'll save the 3's for the ITT's.


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## muckypete (Jul 26, 2008)

*mounting Pro Race 3 on old Dura Ace WH-7700*

Most certainly the rims!! These tires are the best I've ever used, make me feel more secure on the road than my helmet (well...almost). However, when mounting on WH 7700 Dura Ace rims they will rip your fingers off! I will try some of the stretching ideas posted here and see if that helps. Thanks.


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## teddysaur (Dec 30, 2004)

How does P3R perform under wet condition?


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## muckypete (Jul 26, 2008)

*Pro 3 Race in wet*

I am mainly a fair weather cyclist, however I have been in the rain with the Pro 2 Race and they were very good. I assume the 3's will perform well but haven't used them wet yet. I would be interested to hear what others have to say....


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## Nurgen Pete (Jul 29, 2006)

*Rim tape!*



Michelin Man said:


> I don't think the temps were the issue with getting it on the rim. I keep all my wheels, tires, tubes, and bikes in my unfinished, uninsulated basement all the time (unless I am using them on the trainer or riding them outside) and I have not had an issue with the temps and I can say that my basement is WAY colder then 68 degrees.
> 
> As mentioned by ctracer01, could it be that you have the new Dura-Ace Tubeless wheels? If that is the case, they do make a tighter rim tolerance for the tubeless system, and no, the Pro3 Race tires are not tubeless.
> 
> ...


 A while back, while I worked for the Norwegian Shimano and Michelin-distributor, I mounted a few sets of Michelin Pro2's on various Shimano-wheels and from these experiences I'd reccomend looking into the rimtape as a possible source of problems. On a WH-RS10 set I mounted the tires to there was a special Shimano-brand plastic rimband (not tape, the kind that's stretched on) and I suspect this rimband was way to stiff, effectively decreasing the amount of "rim well" available as I put the second bead on. On the front wheel the tire went on with a lot of cursing and the use of a couple of tire levers. When I got to the rear wheel I could not get the tire on what so ever (I could not even get the first bead on). I then decided to try a different, more flexible rimtape and the tire then mounted on without any tools or problems what so ever.


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## disney (Mar 13, 2008)

Interesting reading the comments.
So far now over over1700 miles since my last post and no puncture (flat). They ride very nicely, grip well and I am very pleased with them. There are some micro cuts and a darker centre worn band as expected but as I ride over very varied terrain( coastal routes mainly( concrete sea wall with lots of crushed sea shells on the surface) across grass routes laid with plastic hexagon track, rough UK roads and ignore the surfaces, I would expect that. I just use and forget them and will continue to use them in all conditions. I weigh 190 lbs and they grace a 2008 madone 5.2 with race x lite wheels. Inner tubes are bontrager race lite. I think they are excellent tyres. I do wonder how much longer they will last but will buy them again when the present ones wear out. Average ride is 40miles, but rarely in wet conditions. It is simply luck of the draw maybe on my next ride I will get a puncture when some famer starts cutting the hawthorne road hedging which usually defeats every known tyre protection.


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## steel515 (Sep 6, 2004)

*pro race*



disney said:


> Interesting reading the comments.
> So far now over over1700 miles since my last post and no puncture (flat). They ride very nicely, grip well and I am very pleased with them. There are some micro cuts and a darker centre worn band as expected but as I ride over very varied terrain( coastal routes mainly( concrete sea wall with lots of crushed sea shells on the surface) across grass routes laid with plastic hexagon track, rough UK roads and ignore the surfaces, I would expect that. I just use and forget them and will continue to use them in all conditions. I weigh 190 lbs and they grace a 2008 madone 5.2 with race x lite wheels. Inner tubes are bontrager race lite. I think they are excellent tyres. I do wonder how much longer they will last but will buy them again when the present ones wear out. Average ride is 40miles, but rarely in wet conditions. It is simply luck of the draw maybe on my next ride I will get a puncture when some famer starts cutting the hawthorne road hedging which usually defeats every known tyre protection.


2 questions: wouldn't a softer tread attract more (sharp) debris/ allowing more microcuts, which wouldn't be a surprise?

also, would a grippier tread increase rolling resistance since it sticks to the road better?


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## tom_h (May 6, 2008)

steel515 said:


> 2 questions: ... [snip] ... also, would a grippier tread increase rolling resistance since it sticks to the road better?


Maybe so, _if all else was held constant_.

But measurements of tire rolling resistances at http://www.biketechreview.com/tires/AFM_tire_crr.htm show the Pro3 is pretty darn good.

A variety of tubulars and clinchers were measured, and ranged from about 12 to 24 watts per wheel. The Pro3 Race measured 15 watts per wheel.

The rolling resistance data was taken on smooth rollers -- the website mentions
"_Crr on typical road surfaces may be 50 to 100 % higher_"​
Yet the Pro3 is reasonably rugged ... I've had 1 rear flat at about 400 miles.


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## lalahsghost (Aug 27, 2007)

teddysaur said:


> How does P3R perform under wet condition?


IME, I trusted them more than my PR2's, and I trust them more than my Maxxis Xenith Hors Categorie's. I cornered bends(shoulders?) at 35 mph. IMO it is crazy sometimes, but I'm pretty comfortable with my maker, so I trust I'll make it through it 

These tires can take some pretty extreme conditions, and I'd suggest to risk it every once in a while :thumbsup:

Durability is another issue


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## thinkcooper (Jan 5, 2005)

Just had the pleasure of writing up a 1000+ mile RBR pro-review on the Michelin Pro3 Race tires. link to the review


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## jupiterrn (Sep 22, 2006)

thinkcooper said:


> Just had the pleasure of writing up a 1000+ mile RBR pro-review on the Michelin Pro3 Race tires. link to the review


Thanks for the review Coop. I have been thinking about getting a set prior to going to Texas for the LAF ride.


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## dekindy (Jul 7, 2006)

:lol: :lol:


ownedbybiggs said:


> Thats why I'm going to give it a few days...now here comes the finger pointing...I was a lil hungover  , and it's so hot and humid I can't really accurately judge the wind, but even that being said, downhill is downhill and it was slower. I have the MS150 ride next weekend, I'll run'em through that and then give an update.


:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:


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## kiwiscanfly (Jul 9, 2008)

*Same here*



Doc_D said:


> I picked up a set of these off of ebay. Maybe it's just me but it took me like 3 hours to get these tires on! I was putting these on dura ace wheels (not the new carbon wheels).
> 
> Anyone else have these yet? Are these tires REALLY tight or is it just me?


I have the same wheel-tire combination and exactly the same problem. Resorted to taking wheel to a bike shop. The mechanic was surprised how difficult it was to fit - he broke 2 tire levers. I have found pro race & pro-race 2 tires hard to fit to these wheels also. I found a product called a Tire Jack from Kool-Stop which claims:
"Will pull the tightest of tire beads over a rim without causing any damage to tube, tire or rim". 
Has anyone else used this?


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## ownedbybiggs (Jul 8, 2008)

After running the tires through the "150" I can say that they grip great but, I did get two flats within 80mi which was a real let down, I'm sticking with vitorria's as the last longer and roll faster...my 2cents


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## vortechcoupe (Jun 6, 2006)

so where is the all black? i don't want black with gray either. All black except for logos


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## PapaBliss (May 26, 2010)

*Size difference between old and new Race Pro 3*

My rear tire needed to be replaced and after installing the new tire I noticed that the new tire seemed shorter. Thought it may have been an optical illusion ... front tire has the grey strip while the rear is all black so I grabbed a tape measure to compare. Measuring from top of rim to top of rim the old tire was 2 1/2 inches while the new one is 2 3/8. Is this a design change ? Poor quality control ? Does the difference matter ?


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## music (Dec 3, 2009)

PapaBliss said:


> My rear tire needed to be replaced and after installing the new tire I noticed that the new tire seemed shorter. Thought it may have been an optical illusion ... front tire has the grey strip while the rear is all black so I grabbed a tape measure to compare. Measuring from top of rim to top of rim the old tire was 2 1/2 inches while the new one is 2 3/8. Is this a design change ? Poor quality control ? Does the difference matter ?



old tire vs new, I think you have to take stretch and wear into account.


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