# Italian Culture Shock



## Paris_Metro (Aug 7, 2006)

I had a very difficult time choosing my last bike, even though I did plenty of research and narrowed it down to only two bikes – Colnago’s C50 and De Rosa’s King Xlight. I ended up picking the De Rosa only because I wanted a bike that nobody else has; I see quite a few C50s on the road here. 

I love my De Rosa frame but have been treated like absolute dirt by the company. For example, I posted a few comments/questions on De Rosa’s owner’s forum: all of my posts were quickly deleted and I was told to never return to the site. Also, the company treated me like a criminal when I tried to exchange a bad fitting De Rosa jacket. And NO, I am not one of those people who like to complain and stir up trouble. I know several other De Rosa customers who have been banned from the company’s web site and have been left with an equally bad taste about De Rosa’s treatment of customers. 

I am looking at a dedicated TT bike and was seriously considering Colnago. However, I refuse to be treated like this again after forking out $4,100 for a bike frame. I do own a ’95 Master and can’t say enough good things about the way it rides and the incredible paint job. My questions is, do all Italian company’s treat their customers like sh*t or this strictly a De Rosa thing? Can I expect an equally bad experience with Colnago?


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## dnalsaam (Dec 6, 2004)

I know the whole De Rosa family and they are exceedingly difficult to anger, I would therefore be extremely surprised if you were not the one to have unnecessarily provoked them. De Rosa is a very small company which is totally run by the family members. In such an environment, whether in Italy or in the US, you get treated in accordance to how you treat the person that you are dealing with.

As far as the return of the jacket, why would you be dealing with De Rosa directly for such a return? Return it to where you purchased it. De Rosa does not deliver such items to individuals directly, so attempting to return it to them is wrong. If for some reason you don't want to deal with the seller, and want to go above them, you should either turn to the distributor or to the manufacturer.

Lastly, with regards to possibly suffering a bad experience with Colnago, I would suggest that you stay far away from any boutique builder, because apparently your expectations do not correspond to the level of service that you should normally expect from a small company. Besides, in my experience, dealing with Colnago is far more complex and difficult than dealing with De Rosa.


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## rodist (Sep 2, 2005)

*Lighten up*

After reading these 2 posts, there has to be some truth in the middle.
dnalsaam is defending the De Rosa family like he is part of the inheritance.

dnalsaam, people do make mistakes and at times have ordered clothing the wrong size and need to return it for the proper size. That is why everyone has a return policy and mail order houses actually give you a return label to send your goods back with. It may not happen to someone as perfect as you but to the standard person, we have all made a mistake once or twice in our lives.

Though De Rosa is a small company, the owners never have complete control. Somehow somewhere there will be an employee who treats a client poorly that will stain the company's reputation for customer service. If they are such a great company, they or their distributor should listen to their client’s complaints with an open mind and then respond accordingly.

I'm not saying anyone is right or wrong in this situation but your attack of the poster is similar the crappy service he has received. These stuck up attitudes in the cycling community really give it a bad image at times.


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## Paris_Metro (Aug 7, 2006)

I did purchase the jacket directly from De Rosa; now you're the one showing your ignorance. I admit that I made a mistake in purchasing the wrong size but all I asked for was an exchange for a different size. I wasn't asking for Ugo's left nut. 

Also, I happen to know a thing or two about marketing. When somebody pays a premium for an item, they expect to be treated decent. As a premium brand, De Rosa should be concerned about its customer relationships.

I am sorry for not understanding how treating customers like **** is a business strategy. I guess I will steer clear of the Italian snob brands and buy American. BTW, there is a reason the USA is the economic power of the world. And I can assure you, dnalsaam, it has nothing to do with pissing consumers off.


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## Paris_Metro (Aug 7, 2006)

And what is up with everyone claiming to the know the De Rosa family personally? Why would the De Rosa clan want to hang out with a middle-aged man from Moorestown New Jersey?


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## fabsroman (Jul 14, 2006)

Good Lord, this thread is getting terrible.

I have heard that Colnago, DeRosa, and Bianchi are not known for their customer service; however, I just ordered a Colnago. Colnago and DeRosa have been my dream bikes for 20 years, and Bianchi was just behind them. I heard from several LBS's in my area that customer service from Bianchi sucked, so they do not carry them any more.

I guess it is tough for these small companies to have great customer service. However, at least I know of a shop in England that is pretty good with repairing Colnagos should I ever need it.

Let's remember that the original Mr. DeRosa is not the one monitoring the website. Heck, he might be just like my dad and barely know how to turn a computer on. It is probably an idiot employee that is causing this problem.

At the end of the day, this is why I am glad I am an attorney. If I ever get really bad customer service, I just head to the courthouse and file a lawsuit. That usually gets their attention.

As far as knowing the DeRosas is concerned, I wouldn't be surprised that somebody from New Jersey actually knows them. Italy isn't too big and there are a lot of Italians in Jersey. Dnalsaam might even be related to them or from the same city as them.

Now, how about everybody else responding about what Colnago's customer service is like. I haven't had to use them yet, so I would like to hear from the rest of you too.


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## meccio (Sep 29, 2005)

*dealing with the DeRosa family and with Colnago*

Just a small contribution to this debate, based upon personal experience with DeRosa and Colnago here in Italy (I am an Italian amateur cyclist, and leave in Milan).

In January 2006 I ordered through my local bike shop a DeRosa King X Light. The shop owner, when I placed the order, called Danilo DeRosa (one of Ugo's sons) in front of me, to discuss the expected delivery time (45 days). I had to wait longer to get the frame, and I sent a couple of emails to the company to understand what was happening to my frame. Danilo was quick and very kind in his answers, and the frame arrived with 30 day delay. It is a fantastic bike, a joy to ride. It was whorthile to wait a bit longer.

My experience tells me that the DeRosa family (at least Danilo) is very approachable and tend to treat clients with care. 

Maybe you have acquired the jacket through their on line shop, on their website. I am sure that none of the Derosas is directly involved in that. This is not to justify the company. I agree that still in terms of client's care Italy is much behind the US.

I can also tell something on Colnago. Last september I ordered an Extreme C, in September. I ordered in PR00 (all black, white decals), as shown in their catalog. The shop owner called a friend of his who works in in Colnago (not Ernesto) in front of me, and got reassured that the frame would have been delivered in one week, since it was available in inventory. The frame did arrive in one week, but not in PR00, but rather in black with silver and orange stripes around the "Colnago" stikers. I do not remember the color code, maybe you know the one I refer to. Not bad, but not what I ordered for. When you pay almost 3000 Euro for a frame, you expect to be able to pick the color. The shop owner called his friend, and the answer which he got was the following "Ernesto is not in, he left for the Las Vegas exhibition and will be back in 20 days. He has given instructions that extreme C frames be produced in EITA color (the one with the red/white/green stripe) and in the color which you have got until he is back. We do not have any PR00 frame in inventory, and God knows when we will have one. If you want to send your frame back, we will accept that but no assurance on if and when you will get a PR00. We must wait for Ernesto to see whether he will instruct us to make them". I kept my frame, and again it is a fantastic bike and a joy to ride.


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## Paris_Metro (Aug 7, 2006)

Thanks for everyone's constructive feedback (sorry dnalsaam, this doesn't include you). It sounds like Italian customer service is hit and miss depending on who you deal with. This is too bad since I think everyone here agrees you can't beat an Italian frame in terms of quality.


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## fabsroman (Jul 14, 2006)

Kind of like buying a Ferrari. I don't know what Ferrari's customer service is like, but I bet it isn't that great because they have no problem selling their cars. If everybody wants what you have, you do not have to be great in the customer service department, especially if the product rarely breaks or fails to perform.

Now, I have bought several high dollar shotguns from Italian companies (i.e., Beretta and Benelli which is now owned by Beretta) and their customer service is great. Out of the 7 that I bought, I had one with a cosmetic defect on the receiver and another with a cosmetic defect on the stock. The replaced the gun with the cosmetic defect on the receiver with a brand new gun and they replaced the stock on the other gun with an upgrade in the wood. I was extremely happy. So, not all Italian companies have terrible customer service. You might have just had a little bad luck with DeRosa. I would give them another chance to try and make things right. At first, Beretta didn't want to do much for me either, but I wouldn't take that as an answer.

Oh yeah, before I went to Beretta and Benelli, I was a die hard Browning fan which is an American company that makes its entry level guns in Japan and its high level guns in Belgium. Bought a Japanese double shotgun and had some problems with it. Browning's customer service was horrible and they didn't want to do anything at all to help me. Hence, the next 7 shotguns have been Beretta and Benelli and the next 5 rifles have been Ruger, another American company that actually makes the guns here and they have great customer service.

I guess what I am trying to say is that just because you had trouble with DeRosa doesn't mean that all Italian companies have terrible customer service. Same goes for me having trouble with Browning. It doesn't mean that all American companies have terrible customer service. Just find a manufacturer that wherein you like the product and the customer service and stick with them for a while. That is my philosophy.

The Internet is great because it lets us talk about all this stuff. I do the same on another chatboard that deals with shooting.


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## jpap (Jun 21, 2006)

*my 2 cents.....*

I've owned a Tomassini, Pinarello and a DeRosa. The DeRosa and Pinarello were held in stock by the LBS so no waiting time. The Tomassini was a custom job. When I asked the LBS owner how long will I need to wait he said with a smile 'anything from 6 weeks up' and a condition of sale is that I don't pester him daily once the six weeks were up. Well the way I approached it is I paid my money and forgot about it. Then 12 weeks later I got a call from LBS saying frame had arrived. Well what a magnificent bike it turned out to be. I suppose what I'm saying here is Italians make beautiful things be it bikes, cars, clothes whatever however customer service might not be right up there on their priority list. This does not mean they don't believe in customer service only they put more value on creating frames that are pieces of art. I've loved all my Italian bikes. Also, a cycling buddy of mined owns a Litespeed which developed a crack in the BB. It took Litespeed 9 months to repair it and send it back.


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## Paris_Metro (Aug 7, 2006)

:yesnod: dnalsaam, I'm going to interpret your silence on this post as an apology. I accept your apology and extend one of my own.


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## dnalsaam (Dec 6, 2004)

Paris_Metro said:


> :yesnod: dnalsaam, I'm going to interpret your silence on this post as an apology. I accept your apology and extend one of my own.


I accept your apology, I am glad that you realize the error of your initial post. I was indeed not aware of the fact that De Rosa has indeed begun direct sales of clothing. As a new venture, it could also be that they are availing themselves of outside staff, but I can assure you that the youngest of the three sons: Cristiano, is involved on an oversight level. It should however be pointed out that you did not however pay a premium price for the item of clothing, as the online sales to De Rosa owners is highly discounted as a service to De Rosa owners. So not only did you make the initial error in the size, you also saw fit to openly spit on the family in the De Rosa club. Not the best way to make friends and influence people.

As far as knowing the De Rosa family, my present residence is in no way relevant to my knowing them. May I simply state that I have lived for more years of my life in Italy than in the US. I have also lived in Germany, France, Belgium and other countries. Feel free to ask Cristiano about me any time. The same goes for Ernesto and Alessandro Colnago and Vanni Brambilla at Colnago; as it is also for Nane, Fausto or Carla Pinarello. I have worked on the wholesale level, (not on the retail level as you incorrectly deduced) with Colnago, De Rosa and other high-end frame and bike builders.

At present I have 4 De Rosa's (the oldest from the mid-60's, was raced by a Salvarani team member; 2 from the 80's including a 35th anniversary model, and the bike ridden by Roberto Conti of the Vini Caldirola pro team in the 2000 season.) I also have 4 Colnago bikes including one from 1974 that was raced by one of the top Italian pro racers of all time when he raced for the SCIC team (the first year that Colnago sponsored a complete pro team) and another that I was gifted in 2005 for services rendered to Colnago.

As I wrote earlier, given your attitude, I strongly recommend that you stay away from any boutique builder, as your expectations are almost certainly not going to be met by any of them. I base this on my experience working wholesale with boutique builders not only from Italy but also from the US, Canada, France and even Japan. The same also holds true for custom shoemakers, custom tailors... etc. These small enterprises function in ways that seem foreign to many who are accustomed to the Walmarts and Sears of this world. In many small companies, who you are is much more important that how much money you have in your pocket.


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## oldtrackie (Oct 23, 2005)

That's what I like about dnalsaam - not in the least bit pretentious!


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## Paris_Metro (Aug 7, 2006)

Yeah, you won't find a more down-to-earth guy. Did you know the Nals man wears his top-sider shoes without socks? He also rides one of those Little House on the Prairie commuter bikes. Yeah, check out the pics on his profile. How sick is that? I didn't even know they sold those shoes anymore. 

With all fairness, the guy seems to know his bicycles. Now if he'd just learn how to communicate with us lowly humans.


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## divve (May 3, 2002)

Paris_Metro said:


> I did purcha BTW, there is a reason the USA is the economic power of the world.


If I could continue to borrow money without having to pay it back I'd be the second economic power of the world :2:


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## Paris_Metro (Aug 7, 2006)

*I Thought this was a Bike Forum*

:devil: When you’re the mother of all swine the little piglets have no choice but to line up for the smallest taste of your filthy teat. You may not realize this but you, America, are the sole supplier of greed – the very fuel of today’s global economy. You are nothing more than a gluttonous consumer nation. Your people contribute no worthwhile goods or services to the world; they do nothing more than demand that their cheap goods are made bigger, better, and more disposable. Second and third world countries have little choice but to exhaust their every resource – both human and natural – in a futile attempt to feed your carnal wants and needs. And all in the name of progress!


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## fabsroman (Jul 14, 2006)

Eventually, that debt would catch up with you, just like it will catch up with the US. I have no idea why it is so hard for the US to pay off its debt. All we would have to do is to stop giving aid to other countries and enforce our tax laws. If I am not mistaken, the tax gap for 2004 was 340 billion dollars (i.e., $340,000,000.00) according to the IRS. That means that taxpayers paid 340 billion less than they should have in 2004 and the IRS has no way to enforce it. Me, I would spend 100 billion in IRS salaries, hire a couple of million auditors, and require every tax return to be audited over the last 3 years, possibly 7, and then we could start to get a handle on the nation's debt.


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## fabsroman (Jul 14, 2006)

Where did that quote come from? Holy cow.


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## steel515 (Sep 6, 2004)

*derosa solution*



Paris_Metro said:


> And what is up with everyone claiming to the know the De Rosa family personally? Why would the De Rosa clan want to hang out with a middle-aged man from Moorestown New Jersey?


Here's my advice:
re: italian frames, your bad experiences: dont buy italian! I think many high end companies (clothing, automobile dealerships, etc) can give you bad experience;
they don't guarantee your satisfaction, and you're welcome to shop elsewhere.
For me if I were to buy a high end American frame I might have the same experiences. I think some people complained about Serotta on this forum.

I even read in Road and track magazine long time ago, the italians working in the factory hate the customers' guts because they can afford to buy them, the article said an american mechanic even found a playboy magazine built into one door. 

I don't know if you've tried this, but you might have easier/better communication with American distributor of derosa, tell them you won't buy any more (even though you wont), etc.

There are many many bike companies, there's no need to focus on Italian. I recommend you spend your money on Campy parts instead.
I didn't gotten any response when I contacted the american branch (and had bad experience with Shimano USA) but any dealership can help you with your problems.


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## Guest (Sep 20, 2006)

Paris_Metro said:


> :devil: When you’re the mother of all swine the little piglets have no choice but to line up for the smallest taste of your filthy teat. You may not realize this but you, America, are the sole supplier of greed – the very fuel of today’s global economy. You are nothing more than a gluttonous consumer nation. Your people contribute no worthwhile goods or services to the world; they do nothing more than demand that their cheap goods are made bigger, better, and more disposable. Second and third world countries have little choice but to exhaust their every resource – both human and natural – in a futile attempt to feed your carnal wants and needs. And all in the name of progress!


You know, you came along about 5 weeks ago and it seems that in that time you have gone out of your way to be as insulting as you can to pretty much everyone you came across. I realize you may think you're funny. You aren't.

You are needlessly insulting and needlessly argumentative with everyone which is why pretty much every thread you touch spins out of control.

Sit back and take a deep breath before you type, you may get more out of the forums.


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## jpap (Jun 21, 2006)

Very well said. Lets not forget that this thread started NOT because paris_metro hates his DeRosa but because he ordered a JACKET that was delivered in the wrong size. For goodness sake. What type of mentality would go on all these forums and complain about service because of a jacket that came in a wrong size. I'd also like to know what you posted on the DeRosa forum to be banned.


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## dnalsaam (Dec 6, 2004)

jpap said:


> Very well said. Lets not forget that this thread started NOT because paris_metro hates his DeRosa but because he ordered a JACKET that was delivered in the wrong size. For goodness sake. What type of mentality would go on all these forums and complain about service because of a jacket that came in a wrong size. I'd also like to know what you posted on the DeRosa forum to be banned.


One small clarification: De Rosa did not deliver the wrong size. He has admitted to having ordered the wrong size, as well as to the fact that De Rosa has replaced the incorrectly ordered jacket.


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## fabsroman (Jul 14, 2006)

toomanybikes said:


> You know, you came along about 5 weeks ago and it seems that in that time you have gone out of your way to be as insulting as you can to pretty much everyone you came across. I realize you may think you're funny. You aren't.
> 
> You are needlessly insulting and needlessly argumentative with everyone which is why pretty much every thread you touch spins out of control.
> 
> Sit back and take a deep breath before you type, you may get more out of the forums.


For a minute there, I was wondering what I might have done wrong. Lucky for me, you were refering to Paris.


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## Paris_Metro (Aug 7, 2006)

jpap said:


> Very well said. Lets not forget that this thread started NOT because paris_metro hates his DeRosa but because he ordered a JACKET that was delivered in the wrong size. For goodness sake. What type of mentality would go on all these forums and complain about service because of a jacket that came in a wrong size. I'd also like to know what you posted on the DeRosa forum to be banned.


OMG, some of you people need to take a refresher course in reading comprehension. The ill fitting JACKET was one example of De Rosa's poor customer relations; it is not what started this thread. Forget the jacket. Give me your address and I'll ship you the f'n jacket!


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## Paris_Metro (Aug 7, 2006)

toomanybikes said:


> You know, you came along about 5 weeks ago and it seems that in that time you have gone out of your way to be as insulting as you can to pretty much everyone you came across. I realize you may think you're funny. You aren't.
> 
> You are needlessly insulting and needlessly argumentative with everyone which is why pretty much every thread you touch spins out of control.
> 
> Sit back and take a deep breath before you type, you may get more out of the forums.



Ouch, that one almost tore the skin. Are you stalking me?


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## Fredrico (Jun 15, 2002)

*Be happy!*

A DeRosa story in the Colnago thread.

Here's this guy, in a quandry over whether to enrich his toybox with a Colnago or DeRosa, going with the DeRosa for no other reason that it's not what everyone else has, and therefore will enhance it's role as a status symbol even more.

So he throws his money at the DeRosa, even buying a jacket, to call even more attention to his new toy. But alas, the jacket is cut for a racer, not a slightly portly enthusiast with pretentions. So puffed up with the importance of this new bike that will usher him into the realm of the elite, he posts some insulting comments on the DeRosa website, that all enthusiasts will read, like the brash kid complaining about not enough butter on the corn at the family reunion. Of course, his disruptive behavior is quickly censored by the patron, and this upstart American is turned away from the table.

What did you say that got your posts deleted, slick? Give it to us in its entirety!

I've read in other discussions that the DeRosa family is truly dedicated to building fine bicycles. They have chosen to remain small in order to keep control of all the processes that go into making their frames, including the carbon fiber bonding operations. They insist on working the materials themselves, as they have done since brazing the steel frames the likes of Eddy Merckx pummeled tirelessly to get to the line first in countless contests of strength and sheer willpower, not once let down by a recalcitrant machine, but rather inspired, encouraged in moments of despair and doubt, a magical quality only a few master frame makers have achieved.

So you must respect this man, and his sons who have picked up the torches and taken up the ways of the master, to perform his magic. You must respect all of them as artists, as magicians. They know what you will never figure out in a lifetime. But, for a few grand, you can experience their genius every time you ride your bike. For that, you owe them more than an apology, more than the money you paid for that jacket. You owe them your eternal gratitude. That should humble you enough to keep your mouth shut about what you didn't get.

Finally, now, in your over-arching greed for status, you want a DeRosa or Colnago "dedicated time-trial bike." I have ridden a standard DeRosa road racing bike for 21 years, and have put over 60,000 miles on it. That bike still suprises me at what it can do, or more precisely what I, after 21 years, can still do on it! That bike, so precisely aligned in the jig, so deftly filed and brazed, rides as well as it did the day I bought it, and still teaches me things. So ride yours a few years. Rack up the miles. You will be constantly delighted at your capabilities on this wonderful machine, many which you would never have dreamed of before. If you are truly in love, as you say, give your lover a chance! Enjoy what you have! Forget about the TT bike.


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## Paris_Metro (Aug 7, 2006)

Fredrico said:


> A DeRosa story in the Colnago thread.
> 
> Here's this guy, in a quandry over whether to enrich his toybox with a Colnago or DeRosa, going with the DeRosa for no other reason that it's not what everyone else has, and therefore will enhance it's role as a status symbol even more.
> 
> ...



Yes, it is all true -- I weigh a "portly" 145 lbs and only purchase bicycles to enhance my status in the great cycling community; so full of people like Fredrico who consistently amaze us with his armchair political views. Fredrico, exactly how do you make love to your 21 year old bike/"lover"? I envision you removing the saddle and using plenty of triflow. Yes, I'm sure you've experienced the art and magic of De Rosa in ways the rest of us could only imagine, and Mr. De Rosa never intended. :ciappa:


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## Paris_Metro (Aug 7, 2006)

Fredrico said:


> So you must respect this man, and his sons who have picked up the torches and taken up the ways of the master, to perform his magic. You must respect all of them as artists, as magicians. They know what you will never figure out in a lifetime. But, for a few grand, you can experience their genius every time you ride your bike. For that, you owe them more than an apology, more than the money you paid for that jacket. You owe them your eternal gratitude. That should humble you enough to keep your mouth shut about what you didn't get.


Ah, the Tango. The perfect example of magical torch carrying. I just looked up the statistics and discovered that a total of 3 Tangos have been purchased to date. How can one not respect that!


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## fabsroman (Jul 14, 2006)

Paris,

It seems as though you love to argue. How did you find out the statistics on how many Tangos have been sold to date? Just curious. I'll admit that I am one of the people that do not like that bike, but I am sure there are others that view it as art.

What bike(s) are you currently riding? Do you still have a DeRosa? Also, why do you find that you must argue with everybody?

Based upon the responses that you have received in a couple of forums on here (i.e., you are very argumentative), I would bet that there is some basis to Frederico's statement that you probably deserved the banning from the DeRosa site. It would be great to get DeRosa's take on this entire episode, but that probably will not happen.


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## Fredrico (Jun 15, 2002)

*It take two to Tango*



Paris_Metro said:


> Ah, the Tango. The perfect example of magical torch carrying. I just looked up the statistics and discovered that a total of 3 Tangos have been purchased to date. How can one not respect that!


The first time I looked at that one I thought of extreme lense distortion or perhaps one night the DeRosa family went out and got drunk on the fine red wine of the region, then decided to play a joke on their devotees who follow them with almost religious fervor. What they say about this wavy concotion of tubes might be true, about responsiveness and comfort, but in any case that bike would turn heads. If only 3 have been sold, perhaps this bike is ahead of its time! 

Well, ok, I overestimated your weight, and perhaps also experience and riding ability. You may well be a disgruntled Cat. III or II racer, with no truck (patience) with the niceties of European manners. If so, perhaps I'm being a bit harsh.

In defense of my 21 year love affair with a bike: you can't imagine how satisfied, the satisfaction of great sex, I've had many, many times at the end of some incredible rides on that bike, so lovingly brazed together by the hand of DeRosa. Or perhaps one of his sons, no matter, surely under the Master's watchful eye!

Like for example the time I climbed 5300 ft. in 2 hours, with a 44-22 low gear! Eddy was fond of climbing in a 44 tooth chainring on HIS DeRosa, with the exception of paint, tires and saddle, exactly like mine! Slogging up the mountain, quads burning, whole body saying "Give up!" "Abandon!" "Turn around! Descend!" And the bike answering with the assurance wothy of its heritage, worthy of Eddy himself! "Harder! One more stroke! Yes!! And another!! Yes!! More, more!! It feels so good!" And we forge ahead, quads aching, heart pounding, feeling the strength leaving my body, almost weeping in pain! But this strong and resilient bike, without faltering, follows my every pitiful pedal stroke, and moves us resolutely to the top the the mountain! What more could you possibly ask of a bike? Or a woman, for that matter?

No other bike I've ever ridden has inspired that kind of confidence or provided me with so many rewarding experiences. It's very close to sex, my friend. Satiated, you always want to come back for more. What woman could offer you that for 21 years? Very few, and only if you are lucky!


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## Paris_Metro (Aug 7, 2006)

At least Fredrico has a sense of humor, as warped as it may be. 

As for the Tango, I’ve heard rumors that the De Rosa family purchased the design from surrealist Spanish painter Salvador Dali before his death in 1989. Can anyone confirm this rumor?


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## Paris_Metro (Aug 7, 2006)

:incazzato: :cryin: I’m sorry fabsroman; I really don’t mean to be argumentative. Rather, I am a mere simple-minded creature. Similar to an anemone, when disturbed an alarm pheromone persist in my tissues, causing me to withdraw my tentacles and oral disk; the worst kind of refuse spews from my fingertips and onto this forum. It isn’t pretty. I try to control my knee-jerk (jerk being the operative word here) response the best I can. But, being such a simple creature, resistance is futile. Please find it in your heart to forgive me.


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## Paris_Metro (Aug 7, 2006)

Fredrico said:


> In defense of my 21 year love affair with a bike: you can't imagine how satisfied, the satisfaction of great sex, I've had many, many times at the end of some incredible rides on that bike, so lovingly brazed together by the hand of DeRosa. Or perhaps one of his sons, no matter, surely under the Master's watchful eye!
> 
> Like for example the time I climbed 5300 ft. in 2 hours, with a 44-22 low gear! Eddy was fond of climbing in a 44 tooth chainring on HIS DeRosa, with the exception of paint, tires and saddle, exactly like mine! Slogging up the mountain, quads burning, whole body saying "Give up!" "Abandon!" "Turn around! Descend!" And the bike answering with the assurance wothy of its heritage, worthy of Eddy himself! "Harder! One more stroke! Yes!! And another!! Yes!! More, more!! It feels so good!" And we forge ahead, quads aching, heart pounding, feeling the strength leaving my body, almost weeping in pain! But this strong and resilient bike, without faltering, follows my every pitiful pedal stroke, and moves us resolutely to the top the the mountain! What more could you possibly ask of a bike? Or a woman, for that matter?


Isn't it a tad dangerous to face a 5300 foot descent directly after rolling over and falling asleep? :ihih:


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## Fredrico (Jun 15, 2002)

*Please don't laugh,*



Paris_Metro said:


> Isn't it a tad dangerous to face a 5300 foot descent directly after rolling over and falling asleep? :ihih:


I'm not making this up. I took a good 45 minute break while at the summit, sat down at a picnic table, and ate a grilled hot dog, maybe it was two grilled hot dogs, with lots of mustard and relish on a toasted bun. I have to say it was delicious! In fact, it reminded me alot of how, alot of times, you get the muchies after good sex! It was like that! So, re-energized, I flew down the mountain with the aplomb of Marco Pantani--no, Moreno Argentin, who actually rode a DeRosa with the Ariostea team in 1990-91, which was the same color, dark blue, as mine!

The bike descended as well as it climbed: at 45 mph, as rock steady as a motorcycle, catching cars on the curves! I'll admit to being scared sh!!t-less at first, but by the time I got to the base, I motored past the swishy boutiqes in La Canada, at 24 mph, smugly feeling victorious, as if I had just finished Milan-San Remo.

So you see, DeRosas have to be ridden to be appreciated. Ridden alot. Since this is the Colnago forum, I'm sure there are many happy Colnago owners who could say the same thing about their bikes.


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## odeum (May 9, 2005)

*esp. on a frameset*

that after 21 yrs is sure to be a candidate for metal fatigue, if not cracked already...

that being said, there are those who hypothesize of a frame, if after surviving stress cycles of a certain force load over a certain time it will last forever...but i did meet a guy who had a 70's de rosa, as he was putting it away into his alfa i was treated to a view of cracked headtube/downtube/fork crown/blade cracks. he dismissed my pointing this out by sayng it was not a prob, just paint cracks or else he would not be riding it.




Paris_Metro said:


> Isn't it a tad dangerous to face a 5300 foot descent directly after rolling over and falling asleep? :ihih:


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## fabsroman (Jul 14, 2006)

I've ridden my Mino Denti for 20 years and there are no cracks on it. It is Columbus SL, and while it does creak and flex a bit, there are no cracks.

I just cannot wait until I build my Colnago Cristallo this winter. Waiting for the frame is driving me crazy.


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## Paris_Metro (Aug 7, 2006)

fabsroman said:


> I just cannot wait until I build my Colnago Cristallo this winter. Waiting for the frame is driving me crazy.


Which paint scheme did you go with on the Cristallo?


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## fabsroman (Jul 14, 2006)

It is a 2006, so I went with the NS03 paint scheme. I'm not sure I like any of the paint schemes for the 2007 Cristallo.

The frame shipped today, so I am hoping that I get it next week.

I already bought some Campy Record box rim tubulars for the bike, and the ones I am going to build for everyday riding are going to be 36 hole Record Strada, which are black and red, and I am going to use black DT spokes, red DT alloy nipples, and black Campy 2007 Record hubs. Then, I'll build a set of 28 hole Campy Record Cronos, which are silver with red labels, and I am going to use silver DT spokes, red DT alloy nipples, and silver Zipp 202 hubs because Campy doesn't make a light enough 28 hole hub (i.e., their 2006 Record hubs are silver and 28 hole, but they are way too heavy).

I already bought a Cinelli Ram seatpost in carbon fiber and red, which should match pretty well, and I am about to buy a Cinelli Ram one piece bar/stem in carbon fiber, silver, and red. The headset is going to be a Chris King nothreadset in black. The groupo is going to be 2007 Campy Record and the tires are going to be red Tufos.

Now, I reserve the right to change my mind on anything that I haven't purchased yet, but after much debating, I think this is going to be my final setup. The biggest debate was between ITM, FSA, and Cinelli for the seatpost, bars, and stem.


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## Paris_Metro (Aug 7, 2006)

It sounds like you've got your dream bike all planned out. 

Doesn't the Cristallo require an integrated/hidden headset? 

You simply can't go wrong with Cinelli, especially the Ram. Just make sure you choose the length carefully. I run a Deda Alanera integrated bar which is ultra sexy. I still like the look of the Ram better and kick myself for not paying the extra euros to get one.


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## fabsroman (Jul 14, 2006)

I don't think it needs an integrated headset. I have read a bunch of articles where Colnago refuses to use integrated headsets on his frames, which I think is true for the Cristallo too. I have seen a bunch of E1's that use the Chris King aheadset, and I think the E1 is the earlier version of the Cristallo before the seat stay changes. Once I get the frame, I'll let you know for sure.

Figuring everything out for this bike took me forever. I debated on the frame for 2 to 3 months. Started with Colnago, DeRosa, and Pinarello because they were my dream bikes 20 years ago; however, the prices were insane. Then I started looking at bikes built in the US like Trek, Litespeed, and Moots, and I really didn't like any of them and the Trek Madone 5.2SL was $2,500 for the frame and I couldn't buy the entire bike because it came with Shimano which I will not use. So, I started looking at Bianchi and thought I finally found the frame I wanted in the FG Lite in Liquigas colors. Thank God I didn't go with that. Then I started looking at Orbeas because a friend of my brother could get me a great deal on one, but I finally found a retailer that charged a reasonable price for a Cristallo, so I decided to go with that. It was more than I wanted to spend on the frame, but still $1,000 less than I could find it for in the US.

There was no debate about the groupo because I love Campy. The next big debate was the wheels. It is tough to find new wheels that are tubulars, affordable, and light. The wheels I am going to build are as light as, or lighter than, the Campy Eurus in tubular and they cost a decent amount less. $150 for the rims, $250 for the hubs, and about $100 for the spokes. About the only rims that might be worth the extra money are the Reynolds series, but I don't know if they are really worth the $1,600+. I'll probably get a pair of KOM's next summer, but who knows what the future holds.

The last debate was the seatpost, bars, stem, and saddle. I am just glad all the debating is over and I will be really happy once I start building everything. I think I am going to start with the wheels first and go from there.


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## Fredrico (Jun 15, 2002)

*Sorry to hear that*



odeum said:


> that after 21 yrs is sure to be a candidate for metal fatigue, if not cracked already...
> 
> that being said, there are those who hypothesize of a frame, if after surviving stress cycles of a certain force load over a certain time it will last forever...but i did meet a guy who had a 70's de rosa, as he was putting it away into his alfa i was treated to a view of cracked headtube/downtube/fork crown/blade cracks. he dismissed my pointing this out by sayng it was not a prob, just paint cracks or else he would not be riding it.


But I'm not worried. I overhauled my darling last summer, and the frame and fork looked great! Then again, it's slid out on several notable occassions, but never hit anything head-on. That's what kills a bike, no matter what its made of. Your friend's cracked front end was surely from something like that.

I've also never been that heavy, and have always spun with fast leg speeds. This is the least stressing on a frame. I've seen strong riders break chainstays and seattubes at the front derailleur hanger. I'm even still riding on the same bottom bracket, crank, chainrings and rear hub that I put on the bike a year or two after I bought it, including the famous Super Record crank, which has achieved a reputation for catastrophically cracking where the arm joins the spider. All the more reason to take it easy, spin fast in easy gears, and also save these old knees. Eddy used to say, "If you want to go fast, pedal fast." He should know.

Frankly, I'd worry more about aluminum or carbon breaking on a fast downhill. Steel always flexes alot way before it comes apart, giving plenty of warning. Carbon fiber doesn't give you much warning, aluminum even less.


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## Fignon's Barber (Mar 2, 2004)

Fredrico said:


> But I'm not worried. I overhauled my darling last summer, and the frame and fork looked great! Then again, it's slid out on several notable occassions, but never hit anything head-on..........


 OK fredrico. You've got me hooked. Can we see a picture of this bike?


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## Fredrico (Jun 15, 2002)

Fignon's Barber said:


> OK fredrico. You've got me hooked. Can we see a picture of this bike?


Tried to post an electronic picture taken by a friend, but it was in a strange format that wouldn't transfer. It wasn't a great picture, but showed the great shape this bike is still in.

It's made of Columbus SL, has an SLX seattube, short-point lugs, a chromed flat fork crown and chromed right chainstay. The chainstays are crimped into diamond shapes. It's "Ugo blue" with yellow decals. Has adjustable horizontal dropouts, all Campy. Outfitted with Campy Super Record, Turbo seat, Cinelli deep drop bars on 1A stem.

Its still great fun to ride.


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## Guest (Oct 18, 2006)

odeum said:


> that after 21 yrs is sure to be a candidate for metal fatigue, if not cracked already...
> 
> that being said, there are those who hypothesize of a frame, if after surviving stress cycles of a certain force load over a certain time it will last forever...but i did meet a guy who had a 70's de rosa, as he was putting it away into his alfa i was treated to a view of cracked headtube/downtube/fork crown/blade cracks. he dismissed my pointing this out by sayng it was not a prob, just paint cracks or else he would not be riding it.


The "fatigue" nonsense agan. I have bikes in my garage that will never see this side of 21 years or even 30 years again.

They ride as well as they ever did and are not cracking, breaking or failing in any way.


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