# Destructive Training



## slegros (Sep 22, 2009)

With respect to training intensity:

For me I find doing 2x20 intervals above 90% or so of my max. output is counter productive-the additional recovery time required more than offsets the additional gains, and for me 85% seems to give a good balance-as is what most recommend.

With short intervals I find it similar-do too many for too long and the additional recovery time required more than offsets the additional gains... 

My question is this: Is there any point in the training cycle where this type of 'destructive' training-training above 85-90% of max. power output for extended periods- is beneficial? Prior to a long layoff? To peak for a certain event?


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## Alex_Simmons/RST (Jan 12, 2008)

what do you mean by max?

Lots of hard intervals before you are ready for them isn't really necessary, especially when your training loads are low. When training loads are higher, you can back up far better from such efforts.

and yes there are times when they are most definitely beneficial. It's all part of general preparation.

no need to jump straight into 2 or 3 x 20-min hard efforts, can work your way up to those, both in terms of duration of interval, and the relative intensity you ride at.


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## Creakyknees (Sep 21, 2003)

I've wondered about this. Anybody seen any studies on this?


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## slegros (Sep 22, 2009)

By Max: FTP. 

Naturally proper training will increase FTP, but I find in training above 85%FTP I need way more recovery time than if I stick to 85% of FTP, thus I find training above 85% of FTP for extended periods to be detrimental-the additional recovery time required seems to more than offset the gains of training at more than 85%.

Example: I do approximately 20min runs on a long local climb. If I climb at about 85% of my FTP Im good to go next day or on very little rest. If I go all-out for a personal best on the climb, I need several days of recovery. The long term effects of training using these all-out efforts(as opposed to limiting myself to 85%) in my experience result in a reduction of performance.

Part of the reason Im asking is that I remember an article in which LeMond discussed how his pre tour training involved very severe efforts that were in his words 'destructive' abut a month prior to the tour, followed by a period of relative rest before coming into the tour slightly undertrained....

Is there any benefit to training above 85% FTP for extended periods? What role can it play in periodization or peaking for a specific event?


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## Alex_Simmons/RST (Jan 12, 2008)

slegros said:


> By Max: FTP.
> 
> Naturally proper training will increase FTP, but I find in training above 85%FTP I need way more recovery time than if I stick to 85% of FTP, thus I find training above 85% of FTP for extended periods to be detrimental-the additional recovery time required seems to more than offset the gains of training at more than 85%.
> 
> ...


There's a big difference in doing intervals at say 90-95% of FTP and going out to hit PBs each time you ride. The former is sustainable, the latter far less so.

1. How have you determined FTP?

2. How much training load have you got in the legs? If you're up with power talk, FTP etc, what's your CTL?

If your power is still improving doing what you're doing, then I wouldn't be too concerned. you just may not be ready yet for doing such efforts. One doesn't always need to do Level 4 (or harder) efforts in order to improve FTP.

At some stage your performance/power will plateau and you gotta lift the (relative) power to stimulate further improvement. When that is, depends.


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