# Wheelbase



## lookrider (Dec 3, 2006)

Has anyone here extended the wheelbase on a kg 381 or 481? In the 4 years I've ridden one, I had the dropouts flush with the frame so there was no way they could slide forward. I've started using 25c tires and put a gp 4000 on and it seemed like the tire was too close to the seat tube for comfort in case any debris got embedded in the tire.

Any problem with the dropout sliding forward? The bolts on the dropouts require very small allen wrenches which you can't overly tighten. How much torque on those bolts are required to secure them?

Thanks


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## texass4 (Oct 13, 2005)

I am also riding on 25c GP4000 tires on my 481. I doubt it's truly necessary to extend the wheelbase for clearance, but I did it. I moved the dropouts to the second tick, basically halfway out and haven't noticed that they've slipped. I just used my minitool to do it and only hand tightened them. So far so good.


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## lookrider (Dec 3, 2006)

texass4 said:


> I am also riding on 25c GP4000 tires on my 481. I doubt it's truly necessary to extend the wheelbase for clearance, but I did it. I moved the dropouts to the second tick, basically halfway out and haven't noticed that they've slipped. I just used my minitool to do it and only hand tightened them. So far so good.


Thanks. I just rode for two hours and had no problem. I moved the dropouts as far back as possible and I hand tightened them also. I had the original Grand Prix 25's on, but the 4000's are bigger in that size so I didn't want to take a chance on a piece of glass getting stuck in a tire, as there were only a couple of mm's clearance. 

The 381 doesn't have any notches on the dropouts so I just moved them as far as they would go.

I'll say this, the GP 4000's ride very nice in the 25's. I've had 23's but these are far superior with about 90psi for me.


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## texass4 (Oct 13, 2005)

lookrider said:


> Thanks. I just rode for two hours and had no problem. I moved the dropouts as far back as possible and I hand tightened them also. I had the original Grand Prix 25's on, but the 4000's are bigger in that size so I didn't want to take a chance on a piece of glass getting stuck in a tire, as there were only a couple of mm's clearance.
> 
> The 381 doesn't have any notches on the dropouts so I just moved them as far as they would go.
> 
> I'll say this, the GP 4000's ride very nice in the 25's. I've had 23's but these are far superior with about 90psi for me.



Cool. I recently found the 25c GP4000s pretty cheap so I gave them a shot. I usually ride Maxxis ReFuse, and hadn't previously tried these. Same results - really, really nice ride at 90-95psi. I second guessed myself this afternoon, thinking that I had a slow leak on the patched tube on my rear, but nope...just a nice cushy ride. 

As a side note, going from all the way forward to all the way back with the dropouts, I didn't notice a great deal of ride quality/handling differences. Granted, I didn't give the changes more than a few rides for observation, but not much wholesale change in the characteristic of the ride.

Nice change from my low, long, and aggresive 585.


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## lookrider (Dec 3, 2006)

texass4 said:


> As a side note, going from all the way forward to all the way back with the dropouts, I didn't notice a great deal of ride quality/handling differences. Granted, I didn't give the changes more than a few rides for observation, but not much wholesale change in the characteristic of the ride..


No, me either.



texass4 said:


> Nice change from my low, long, and aggresive 585.


Really? How would you compare the 585 to the 481..


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## texass4 (Oct 13, 2005)

lookrider said:


> No, me either.
> 
> 
> 
> Really? How would you compare the 585 to the 481..


Not much...it's really just a variance of degree. Briefly, the bikes are setup with exactly the same cockpit and drivetrain. Position is similar on both. I have two wheelsets that each get equal time on the bikes. Here are my observations, however general and debatable they might be.

481: CON - Heavier (slightly) and a little more of a task to haul up the hills. Stiffness? I don't know. It just seems a little...sleepy compared to the 585

481: PRO - More comfortable (again, slightly) over the bumps and rougher roads that I've ridden for years. Both are great bikes in that regard, and I wouldn't consider either to be a "comfort" machine...they're designed for efficient performance. I feel everything on both bikes, which is what I always liked about them, but the 481 just puts the jolts and vibrations a little more in the background. In fact, my first few rides on it made me wonder if I had a slow leak in my tire. Nope, just smooth.

I almost always ride the 585 when the weather's not so good, or when I want to go out and hammer myself to death or go on a ride that is "structured" in some way. Hill repeats, post-work intervals, whatever...more floggable.

The 481 comes out when I'm in the mood for a long steady pace, for nice weather scenery rides, and almost always for multi-day trips, charity rides, etc. It's no slouch, though, when my riding buddies decide to pick up the pace. 

I have an older aluminum bike that's nimble and fast, but not too comfortable. It lives mainly on the trainer. I still also have my first real roadie - a steel frame that's nearly 20 years old with all original parts intact. It's my "sunday driver". Both LOOKS play a role in between these two extremes. That's why I like the subtle differences in them.

Curious to hear your reactions.


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## lookrider (Dec 3, 2006)

texass4 said:


> Not much...it's really just a variance of degree. Briefly, the bikes are setup with exactly the same cockpit and drivetrain. Position is similar on both. I have two wheelsets that each get equal time on the bikes. Here are my observations, however general and debatable they might be.
> 
> 481: CON - Heavier (slightly) and a little more of a task to haul up the hills. Stiffness? I don't know. It just seems a little...sleepy compared to the 585
> 
> 481: PRO - More comfortable (again, slightly) over the bumps and rougher roads that I've ridden for years. Both are great bikes in that regard, and I wouldn't consider either to be a "comfort" machine...they're designed for efficient performance. I feel everything on both bikes, which is what I always liked about them, but the 481 just puts the jolts and vibrations a little more in the background. In fact, my first few rides on it made me wonder if I had a slow leak in my tire. Nope, just smooth..


Aside from a 1980 Panasonic Dx 3000, I've only ridden Looks over the last 7 years. About 50,000 miles. I was a runner before that time. I had a kg 361 which seemed a little stiffer than the current 381's I'm riding, but I was new on the bike then, and didn't really have much to compare it to.



texass4 said:


> I almost always ride the 585 when the weather's not so good, or when I want to go out and hammer myself to death or go on a ride that is "structured" in some way. Hill repeats, post-work intervals, whatever...more floggable.
> 
> The 481 comes out when I'm in the mood for a long steady pace, for nice weather scenery rides, and almost always for multi-day trips, charity rides, etc. It's no slouch, though, when my riding buddies decide to pick up the pace.
> 
> ...


I feel like I'm kind of old athletically, so I'm very rarely riding that hard.. Just easing into my rides. I usually ride about 30 miles at about an 18mph pace on the computer including lights and stops. I'll do the occasional 50 or so miler. I've built my bikes up to emphasize comfort. Open pro's, 25c tires, brooks team pro saddle. The bike isn't light, probably just under 20 lbs, but I'm fairly strong, good aerobic capacity and can keep up with basically anyone I run across. I don't have much top end though so I've been pushing myself with some hard on and off stuff lately. Nothing too structured.

I was always killing myself running, so now I use my hour and a half to 2 hour rides as a kind of therapy. I guess being on these forums gave me an idea that the bike isn't all that important, other than it fitting. The most important aspect is getting out on it. I think the kg 381 gives a fairly comfortable ride for an all out race bike. At least that's the consensus here.

I did run into a guy with a 595 and performed the basic lifting test. Not that it means much, but I was really surprised at how light it was. The wind blew the chainring into my leg.

You can really get into the equipment aspect of this sport, but I'm a little cash strapped right now.

Thanks for the responses. Enjoy...


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