# insomnia/nightmares after intense training



## soulsurfer104 (Jun 30, 2003)

i had a very hard weekend on the bike. on saturday, i did 4.5 hours/65 miles which included three 1,100' elevation climbs at maximum effort, and moderate effort on the flats. on sunday, i did about 5 hours/85 miles of tempo (zone 3/4) on the flats. i didn't feel especially burnt after either ride, but on sunday night i could hardly sleep at all, and i think it is related to the hard riding- especially since this was my first "hard" weekend of the spring.

i went to bed at 930, but couldn't fall asleep until 1230. after falling asleep at 1230, i woke up ever hour or so until morning as a result of really, really bad nightmares- everything from giant buzzing spiders to people in black robes with knives to big animals chasing me through the woods at night. every time i woke up i was soaked with sweat and my heart was thudding in my chest, and it would take me a good 30 minutes to get back to sleep. when i got up this morning, i felt like crap from a lack of sleep.

does anybody else experience this sort of thing after really hard training?


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## Hardy Cyclamens (Mar 21, 2005)

Just a wild guess here, but that much hard riding will fill your body with all sorts of hormones and tweek your metabolism. As a result, you'll have problems getting to sleep. The nightmares are, I'm going to guess, probably a result of all the exertion and the related chemical cascades associated with intense physical activity. 

One thing I do after sustained physical activity is to take a couple aspirin. There was a study a while back about prosteglandins -- a hormone -- and how it was released during physical exertion. Aspirin seems to balance this a bit. But mostly I take the aspirin to just ease the soreness in the body. 

A nice long soak in a hot tub -- be it a "hot tub" or just a bath tub with hot water -- relaxes the body and gets you ready for sleeping. 

But yes, I've had nights where I was tired and sore with great trouble sleeping. I get weird dreams on and off anyway, so I'd have trouble tying it to riding.


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## cloudatlas (Apr 30, 2005)

dude, that was a hard weekend. when i've had an especially hard ride, (but nothing like what you described), sometimes i have a hard time falling and staying asleep. but i've never had nightmare problems like the ones you described. scary!


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## CLTracer (Aug 21, 2004)

soulsurfer104 said:


> i had a very hard weekend on the bike. on saturday, i did 4.5 hours/65 miles which included three 1,100' elevation climbs at maximum effort, and moderate effort on the flats. on sunday, i did about 5 hours/85 miles of tempo (zone 3/4) on the flats. i didn't feel especially burnt after either ride, but on sunday night i could hardly sleep at all, and i think it is related to the hard riding- especially since this was my first "hard" weekend of the spring.
> 
> i went to bed at 930, but couldn't fall asleep until 1230. after falling asleep at 1230, i woke up ever hour or so until morning as a result of really, really bad nightmares- everything from giant buzzing spiders to people in black robes with knives to big animals chasing me through the woods at night. every time i woke up i was soaked with sweat and my heart was thudding in my chest, and it would take me a good 30 minutes to get back to sleep. when i got up this morning, i felt like crap from a lack of sleep.
> 
> does anybody else experience this sort of thing after really hard training?


I have the same problem at times, especially with late-day races. I've gotten used to it and it will go away as you train more. Hard riding puts your body in fight or flight mode and it's taking it a while to return to normal.


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## Macho Man Savage (Oct 24, 2002)

I don't get the nightmares, but when I can't sleep after a really hard ride, it's a sign that I need some serious recovery. The next few days is always very easy spinning.


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## Dwayne Barry (Feb 16, 2003)

As I understand it, there is a non-linear relationship between exercise intensity and adrenaline (norepinephrine) release, so at very high intensities you're loading your system with adrenaline that occurs to a much much lesser extent at low-mod intensities. That probably explains not being able to sleep. I've experienced the same thing doing evening hard workouts.


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## bimini (Jul 2, 2003)

*I have trouble sleeping but not the nightmares*

I also get minor leg aches and cramps. I normally take a couple of Ibuprophin before bed which helps some, but after about 4 hours I wake up again with the cramps. 

However, I've been getting Flu like symptoms after hard races lately. Runny nose, general muscle aches all over, worn down feeling. This lasts for about 24 hours and goes away.

Is that normal?


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## dagger (Jul 22, 2004)

*Me too..*

Hard riding affects my heartrate at night and I can't get to sleep till it slows down. A glass of beer or wine doesn't help either sometimes makes it worse. Chris Carmichael monitors Lance's heartrate at night to determine if he is recovering. If his heart rate returns to normal or not during the night helps determine whether he has recovered.


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## Dwayne Barry (Feb 16, 2003)

bimini said:


> However, I've been getting Flu like symptoms after hard races lately. Runny nose, general muscle aches all over, worn down feeling. This lasts for about 24 hours and goes away.
> 
> Is that normal?


That sounds like allergies, I know a guy who is a mess in the fall after cross races and has to load up on the Benedryl.


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## danielc (Oct 24, 2002)

*Heart rate*

It may be that you never really recovered after saturday's hard ride. i usually monitor my heart rate and the next morning if i'm 3-4bpm over my resting i then know my body hasn't fully recovered. going out and riding longer although not as hard on sunday may have compounded the issue and hence you had a hard time sleeping. your heart rate was probably over resting. my long/harder rides are usually on saturdays and sundays are then shorter/less intense. 
i've had a similar experience in terms of falling asleep but it's usually when i'm playing city league basketball late at night and then going home and trying to go to bed. 
anyway, let us know if you ever figure it out.


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## dave11 (Jan 31, 2003)

*I have similar issues*

our weekly training series lasts until after 9 pm some nights, and I find it really hard to sleep afterwards. anyone have any success with over the counter sleeping pills? I was thinking about trying them on those nights but never have. I also sometimes have trouble sleeping the night before a big race (nerves), especially if it is a real early morning and I need to go to bed early to try to get adequate sleep.


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## dagger (Jul 22, 2004)

*Over the counter.*



dave11 said:


> our weekly training series lasts until after 9 pm some nights, and I find it really hard to sleep afterwards. anyone have any success with over the counter sleeping pills? I was thinking about trying them on those nights but never have. I also sometimes have trouble sleeping the night before a big race (nerves), especially if it is a real early morning and I need to go to bed early to try to get adequate sleep.


I occasionally use diphenhydramine products like sominex which is chemically similiar to Benedryl with some success. But the warning labels state that it may cause irregular heartbeat.


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## danielc (Oct 24, 2002)

dagger said:


> I occasionally use diphenhydramine products like sominex which is chemically similiar to Benedryl with some success. But the warning labels state that it may cause irregular heartbeat.


ya, i stay away from over the counter drugs. they usually give me that drugged up feeling and actually impede my sleep. sometimes before going to bed i drink a glass of milk. the decent amount of tryptophan helps you go to sleep. high amounts of this amino acid is also found in turkey hence why you feel groggy after thanksgiving dinner. our mothers knew what they are doing when they gave us milk and cookies before bed!


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## shwillsy (Feb 16, 2005)

*Accelerade Insomnia*

Hey Surfer,

First off, the best thing for insomnia is reading posts on roadbikereview.

Having said that. I used to have insomnia pretty bad in college. And last year when I started riding seriously It came back. Then I read on cyclingforums about a few guys who were experiencing the same and claiming that it had to do with drinking Accelerade of all things. I used to guzzle the stuff but when I stopped the insomnia did go away!
If you drink Accelerade, you might want to try something else I'm on a Cytomax kick right now and haven't found any negative side effects yet. I'll keep you posted.

On hitting the training hard.....I rode my usual rides on sat. but I did an extra twenty miles before they started and ended up riding 85 miles. I usually drink enough water but I lost a bottle when I hit a bump on the Donut Ride so I was without H20 for like an hour during the middle of my ride. 

Anyway that night when I went to sleep about 10 min. after I was out I got the most massive migraine of my life and literally lay awake all night. I was way to messed up on sunday to ride. And the whole time I'm thinking "I can't believe that this is from dehydration". 

I'll see you thurs.

Oh yeah, don't forget to sleep dude!


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## peterpen (May 5, 2004)

dagger said:


> Chris Carmichael monitors Lance's heartrate at night to determine if he is recovering.


You know how Carmichael monitor's Armstrong's HR at night? He just asks Tom Danielson to get up from his dogbed in the corner and take The Boss's pulse every couple of hours. Danileson says it's an honor.  

(sorry, couldn't resist.)

As for the OP, those sound like some pretty strong rides to do back to back. Personally, I never do more than an aerobic ride the day after sustained max efforts like you described. Maybe I'm a wuss or maybe you're prepping for a stage race, but if there's any way you can space out those hard workouts it might help ya.

And as for allergies, you're nuts to take Benadryl unless you like being sedated. Claritin or Zyrtec are the way to go - they work better, you only take one a day, and they don't dope you up. But Benadryl sure works great as a sleep aid. Take two one hour before bed, then a shower, then a book - lights out.


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## Hardy Cyclamens (Mar 21, 2005)

OTC sleep aids are generally -- probably always, I've not checked them all -- antihistamines. The side effect of antihystamines is drowsiness, and so why not market them as a "sleep aid." But they screw up your system in other ways. One can be heart rate/blood pressure. 

Best thing for a case of nerves and not being able to sleep before a race/ride is a glass of milk, turkey sandwich or anything else with tryptophan, a couple aspirin, and a hot soak. 

I prefer aspirin -- if your stomach doesn't have a problem with it -- because it has a couple effects that aren't present in the other pain relievers. 

But I'd stay away from OTC "sleep aids" and hay fever meds. They're antihystamines, which are vasoconstrictors for the most part. They reduce the diameter of blood vessels, which impedes blood flow, and drives up blood pressure. You don't need that if you're racing or putting any sort of demand on you cardio system.


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## harvey (Feb 27, 2005)

*Don't forget cycling's benefits*



shwillsy said:


> First off, the best thing for insomnia is reading posts on roadbikereview.


I had to chuckle when I saw this! Right now I'm up because I had trouble sleeping, but in my case not from over-riding (I'm in the middle of a job change). This, of course, could bring up a whole new thread, that of the benefits of cycling to relieve stress.


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## wunlap togo (Oct 1, 2004)

Melatonin works really well to knock you out, but doesn't leave you feeling drugged. It is a supplement of a chemical that occurs naturally in your body. It does sometimes give people weird dreams but that's ok by me! I love sleep. I have a lot of races that are around 3-4 pm this year, whereas last year I always raced in the am. I think I'm getting more used to it, but I've noticed that pm races sometimes make it hard to fall asleep particularly if you have to race again the next day and you are trying to go to bed early.


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## shwillsy (Feb 16, 2005)

*Sit Tom, Sit*



peterpen said:


> You know how Carmichael monitor's Armstrong's HR at night? He just asks Tom Danielson to get up from his dogbed in the corner and take The Boss's pulse every couple of hours. Danileson says it's an honor.
> 
> (sorry, couldn't resist.)
> 
> ...


GOOD BOY!


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## Spunout (Aug 12, 2002)

Yes, me too.

When I reduce base hours from 15 hours per week to 12 and start very intense training. I am up at 5:00 in the morning after 6 hours of sleep!! Tough. It means that you are close to peaking. Good article recently on pezcyclingnews.com regarding this.


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## Dr. Paul Proteus (Sep 16, 2004)

I had the same problem last year after a 12hr MTB race, couldn't fall asleep, then when I did I'd quickly wake from the crazy-ass dreams I was having. Funny enough, the nightmares were mostly that I was on the course riding through one of the more challenging technical sections and *had to* ride throught it - as if the dozen times I had already done so that day weren't sufficient. The next day I felt horribly hungover...

So far this year I haven't had the same problem, but my longest race has only been 6hrs. I'm a bit interested in the accelerade comment, as that was what I was drinking during much of the 12hr event, but have since switched to plain old gatoraid.


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## jbrumm (Aug 8, 2004)

*Melatonin Side Effect...*



wunlap togo said:


> Melatonin works really well to knock you out, but doesn't leave you feeling drugged. It is a supplement of a chemical that occurs naturally in your body. It does sometimes give people weird dreams but that's ok by me! I love sleep. I have a lot of races that are around 3-4 pm this year, whereas last year I always raced in the am. I think I'm getting more used to it, but I've noticed that pm races sometimes make it hard to fall asleep particularly if you have to race again the next day and you are trying to go to bed early.


Melatonin can have a nasty side effect for some folks. Nightmares!!! A while back, I took some because sore legs kept me tossing and turning at nite. After popping a couple melatonin capsules, I got a good nite sleep, but I learned somethings about my sub-conscious that I'd rather not have. If you are already having nightmares, you might not want to try Melatonin.


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## BenWA (Aug 11, 2004)

I have definitely experienced this on numerous occasions...after a ride that is significantly longer or harder than i'm used to, i get wicked insomnia...and I can't remember specifically, but I wouldnt be surprised if I've had weird/bad dreams mixed in there when i am able to finally fall asleep. Like others have said above, your body manufactures some hormones after that which can make you feel wired, and also deplete your adrenals. I've heard that taking vitamin B12/Bcomplex can reduce those effects after intense physical stress. Of course, there's always Ambien for a short term solution...I've had some SERIOUS insomnia in the past and Ambien has always been my saving grace. Just knowing its there is usually enough.


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## argylesocks (Aug 2, 2004)

i typically have nightmares after all of my races. probably due to my sh!tty performance.


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## S2H (Jul 10, 2005)

After going on long rides, I've had nightmares of crashing, being hit by cars, or seeing other bikers crash.


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## bas (Jul 30, 2004)

Scotty2Hotty said:


> After going on long rides, I've had nightmares of crashing, being hit by cars, or seeing other bikers crash.


Hmmm.. I've been dreaming about beating people up as of lately... (Someone who tried to pick my wallet in a restroom, last night it was a bear that I did in with a shoe in my sack). 
Any connection?

That Cytomax with Herbal Lift is really some funky chit.  

I use Michelob Ultras to try to calm the caffeine in my system to try to fall asleep.


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## AMvision (Nov 3, 2004)

bimini said:


> I also get minor leg aches and cramps. I normally take a couple of Ibuprophin before bed which helps some, but after about 4 hours I wake up again with the cramps.
> 
> However, I've been getting Flu like symptoms after hard races lately. Runny nose, general muscle aches all over, worn down feeling. This lasts for about 24 hours and goes away.
> 
> Is that normal?


*when ever anyone feels that way thier body is not acting normal or healthy is it?

is it the end of the racing season for you?

Sounds like you need to ease up a bit, if you can, if you are not required to do these races (with a team).

go easy for 2 weeks. Remember you get stronger only with recovery.


AM.


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## ernstmr (Sep 21, 2005)

*De-hydration*

First advice I recieved when I moved to Vegas was, "If you start having a lot of vivid dreams, you are dehydrated." I've found that advice to be very true. Certainly a hard weekend like that could put you at risk of dehydration.


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