# One quality bike that does everything



## rray (Nov 7, 2008)

In the motorcycle world that would be a BMW R1200GS. (Or...on the economy side a Kawasaki KLR 650.) I'm looking for the same thing in a bicycle. 

I'm riding a Bianchi Axis cyclocross but long for a fine steel bike with good components. I ride about 80 miles a week commuting. Is Independent Fabrication overkill? Surly too heavy?

If you were building one bike that does it all what would you build? I'm thinking function over form. Comfort over speed. Racks and bags.

Richard Ray
Denver Colorado


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## MB1 (Jan 27, 2004)

I vote Waterford RS22


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## rodar y rodar (Jul 20, 2007)

MB1 said:


>


Ah, fer cryin out loud, now look what you did! I thought as long as I didn`t look at any more pictures of Ispoke`s Pereira I wouldn`t have to go home and change my underware. I guess I was wrong.


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## FatTireFred (Jan 31, 2005)

my cc gets ridden a lot and seems to do it all (or most)... but fine steel? no


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## knucklesandwich (Feb 23, 2007)




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## JP (Feb 8, 2005)

In my mind a BMW RS is the one bike to do everything without being over the top. They are not lightweight beasts, but they feel more agile than their scale weight would suggest. On the other hand, we are not talking barkalounger touring rigs here. Bags can clip on or off to carry a load or not, and room for fenders and wider tires are a must. So, I would agree with the Waterford or the Tournesol, Goodrich, or JP Weigel. Basically look at what the randonneurs are riding in the rain when they plan to hit dirt at night. You could do the same functionality with less cost with a Surly Cross Check, Soma Smoothie ES, Gunnar, or even a Rivendell Atlantis. Lots of nice choices here.


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## Guest (Feb 4, 2009)

My custom Carl Strong "dirt road" bike.

mounts for fenders and racks.

centre pull brakes for LOTS of tire clearance

Clearance under the fork crown for 35 mm tires and clearance under fenders for 32 mm tires.

travel couplers

does anything I will ever want it to do.


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## rcnute (Dec 21, 2004)

I think that particular Tournesol is actually aluminum.


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## seeborough (Feb 3, 2004)

I'll second the Gunnar Crosshairs and add the VooDoo Wazoo to that mix. It's a very nicely made, comfortable frame right around $500. I have had mine for 5 years and have used it for long club rides (just put on some narrow slicks), as a commuter (with a rack and fenders), as an MTB (35mm knobbies fit well) and with a child seat on the back.
Can't beat that for versatility.


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## buck-50 (Sep 20, 2005)

rray said:


> In the motorcycle world that would be a BMW R1200GS. (Or...on the economy side a Kawasaki KLR 650.) I'm looking for the same thing in a bicycle.
> 
> I'm riding a Bianchi Axis cyclocross but long for a fine steel bike with good components. I ride about 80 miles a week commuting. Is Independent Fabrication overkill? Surly too heavy?
> 
> ...


The bicycle equivalent of BMW would probably be Rivendell- Defiantly different, occasionally for no good reason (BMW turn signal switches=Rivendell's flat-out refusal to acknowledge indexed shifting), Expensive, easily equipped with bags, surprisingly nice handling for something that's easily equipped bags and big tires, lots and lots of expensive branded accessories, some real innovation thrown in for good measure and style to spare...

But, if I was building a do-all (which I am), I'd go custom (which i am)- because do-all for me and do all for someone else might be very different.


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## MB1 (Jan 27, 2004)

buck-50 said:


> The bicycle equivalent of BMW would probably be Rivendell- ....


I have to admit that my Rivendell Rambouillet is just about the equal of my Waterford RS22 for an All Rounder except in the looks department. Don't get me wrong, the Rivendell looks fine it is just that there is something about them polished stainless steel lugs on the Waterford looking back at you on an all day ride (or a trip down to the store on the corner). :thumbsup:


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## wooglin (Feb 22, 2002)

To the OP, you might want to check out cyclofiend's "Current Classics" gallery for some other ideas. 

http://www.cyclofiend.com/cc/all/index.html


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## buck-50 (Sep 20, 2005)

MB1 said:


> I have to admit that my Rivendell Rambouillet is just about the equal of my Waterford RS22 for an All Rounder except in the looks department. Don't get me wrong, the Rivendell looks fine it is just that there is something about them polished stainless steel lugs on the Waterford looking back at you on an all day ride (or a trip down to the store on the corner). :thumbsup:


That waterford is a real purty bike...


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## Dave Hickey (Jan 27, 2002)

On the budget end of things, a Salsa Casseroll.


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## Reynolds531 (Nov 8, 2002)

I don't think that a cyclocross bike makes the best all-rounder. I prefer a lower bottom bracket and shorter headtube--it feels more stable and cuts through tight corners better. I'd go Soma Smoothie ES or Gunnar Sport


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## llama31 (Jan 13, 2006)

I've been thinking about the same thing. If you plan to do much off road riding, a cross bike or rigid 29er MTB might be better than a touring/road bike. I have a gunnar crosshairs that I've used for cross racing, commuting, running errands, and general multi-surface joy rides. I've been thinking I might get a rigid 29er mountain bike, set up with mountain gearing. It would see similar use as the crosshairs, except more single track. 

So I'd add a 29er, rigid MTB to the list, with mountain bike gearing (22-32-42 up front, maybe 11-32 or 12-27 in back), and fast knobbies.


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## rcnute (Dec 21, 2004)

MB1 said:


> I have to admit that my Rivendell Rambouillet is just about the equal of my Waterford RS22 for an All Rounder except in the looks department. Don't get me wrong, the Rivendell looks fine it is just that there is something about them polished stainless steel lugs on the Waterford looking back at you on an all day ride (or a trip down to the store on the corner). :thumbsup:


Remind me/us...what bars are you using? Traditional bars aren't quite doing it for me in the comfort department.


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## MB1 (Jan 27, 2004)

rcnute said:


> Remind me/us...what bars are you using? Traditional bars aren't quite doing it for me in the comfort department.


Salsa Short and Shallow on all my road bikes.


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## PdxMark (Feb 3, 2004)

Here's the all-rounder I got... a Vanilla I can run fixed or geared, road-riding or touring, quick jaunts or long, long rides. It weighs more than a plastic bike, but I just like the steel fork & stem.


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## roadfix (Jun 20, 2006)

Here's my 'quality' bike that does everything. 26" wheeled LHT, skinny or fat tires, it'll take them all, poser or serious rides, doesn't matter.


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## zpl (May 7, 2007)

I love my Salsa Casseroll. You can buy it complete in SS or geared versions or build up your own with the frameset.

Overall I've enjoyed cycling much more since getting a more versatile, comfortable bike with wider tires and full fender coverage. Not to mention the nice steel ride.

Scott


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## PaulRivers (Sep 11, 2006)

You'd get more specific advice if you explained what you mean by "everything". For example,

1. Do you do road racing, and if so how much?
2. You already mentioned you do a lot of miles commuting.
3. Do you do any actual cyclocross racing, and if so how much?
4. Do you do any "real" mountain biking, and if so how much?
5. Do you do any winter biking, and if so how much and in what conditions? How much snow and ice do you get, or is it just rain?


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## rray (Nov 7, 2008)

PaulRivers said:


> You'd get more specific advice if you explained what you mean by "everything". For example,
> 
> 1. Do you do road racing, and if so how much?
> 2. You already mentioned you do a lot of miles commuting.
> ...


Great point. Thanks for asking.

No racing. No single track mountain biking. I ride year round in all conditions. (I have no car.) I'd like to retire in a few years and do some long distance tours. I wouldn't rule out dirt roads.


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## PDex (Mar 23, 2004)

Richard Ray? As in former KBCO Richard Ray? 

Anyway, I've got an old Billato Brothers Tomasso steel. I can fit 28 tires on it. Comfy and I can take it on pretty much anything. The geometry is set up for comfy recreational riding, but it is not too sloppy. 

I've been able to take it over Guanella Pass and on some of the old mining roads around Argentine Pass as well. The 28s do well on a lot of surfaces and don't slow you down on pavement. 

You might want to check out Lennard Zinn in Louisville - he can make something custom for you for not a lot of money. 




rray said:


> Great point. Thanks for asking.
> 
> No racing. No single track mountain biking. I ride year round in all conditions. (I have no car.) I'd like to retire in a few years and do some long distance tours. I wouldn't rule out dirt roads.


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## Howzitbroke (Jun 1, 2005)

*This one for me...*

Uno gear, big tires.


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## quidquam (Nov 4, 2008)

Beautiful Vanilla!

*covet*


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## bigbill (Feb 15, 2005)

If you want an Independent Fabrication frame, the Club Racer would make an excellent all-rounder. I would have one now if they had had a dealer on Oahu. 

I have a Gunnar Crosshairs that I use for a commuter. It is set up with fenders, campy drivetrain, and avid cantilever brakes. 

IMO, you should do the following:
Get a bike that makes you happy.
Don't aim for a pricepoint, you'll just regret it later.
Get a nice handbuilt set of wheels with 25mm or larger tires.
Make sure it's steel.


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## MB1 (Jan 27, 2004)

bigbill said:


> ...Get a bike that makes you happy.
> Don't aim for a pricepoint, you'll just regret it later.
> Get a nice handbuilt set of wheels with 25mm or larger tires.
> Make sure it's steel.


That pretty much covers it all right.

BTW FWIW we love our fixed gear bikes (Waterford RS22s) but except for Florida they really couldn't be the ONE bike for all riding.


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## rray (Nov 7, 2008)

bigbill said:


> IMO, you should do the following:
> Get a bike that makes you happy.
> Don't aim for a pricepoint, you'll just regret it later.
> Get a nice handbuilt set of wheels with 25mm or larger tires.
> Make sure it's steel.


I couldn't agree more. High price does not automatically equal happiness. "Finding" the bike that makes you happy is much harder. There are many shops in town that have no steel bikes at all. The young sales people don't understand why I would want one. 

I've been looking at the Independent Fabrication "Club Racer" and the "Long Haul Trucker". How would you describe the difference between the two?


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## MB1 (Jan 27, 2004)

rray said:


> I couldn't agree more. High price does not automatically equal happiness. "Finding" the bike that makes you happy is much harder. There are many shops in town that have no steel bikes at all. The young sales people don't understand why I would want one.
> 
> I've been looking at the Independent Fabrication "Club Racer" and the "Long Haul Trucker". How would you describe the difference between the two?


I'd describe the IF Club Racer as a "Sporty" bike and the Surly LHT as a "Tourer."


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## bigbill (Feb 15, 2005)

rray said:


> I couldn't agree more. High price does not automatically equal happiness. "Finding" the bike that makes you happy is much harder. There are many shops in town that have no steel bikes at all. The young sales people don't understand why I would want one.
> 
> I've been looking at the Independent Fabrication "Club Racer" and the "Long Haul Trucker". How would you describe the difference between the two?


The Club Racer is a road bike that has a longer wheelbase to accomodate fenders. It comes with eyelets on the fork and rear dropouts for fenders plus braze-ons for a rack. It uses long reach caliper brakes. You can't run really big tires, but you could do some 28mm with fenders. You get to pick the color and have the option of going completely custom with the paint to include panels, flames, etc. The tubing IF selects for your bike is based on your height, weight, and riding style. It is a custom bike. You could take the fenders off and race it or do fast club rides. 

The LHT is a quality touring style bike designed to do everything. It will be $1000+ less than the IF frame. You choose from standard geometry and available colors (usually two). It uses cantilever brakes instead of calipers. This isn't a big deal, there are many choices of cantilever brakes designed to work with road levers. The LHT is set up to run fenders and larger tires. Because it uses cantilever brakes, you get more room for tires so you could go larger than a 28mm. 

Either bike will do the job and provide a good ride. The main difference besides price is that the IF will be built to fit you with custom paint. With the LHT, you will have to find what fits you and be happy with the color.


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## buck-50 (Sep 20, 2005)

bigbill said:


> The main difference besides price is that the IF will be built to fit you with custom paint. With the LHT, you will have to find what fits you and be happy with the color.


Or, if the LHT is the right bike for you but you just hate the color, getting it re-powdercoated could cost less than $200...


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## rray (Nov 7, 2008)

Thanks so much for all the information. Finding a balance of form, function and reasonable price is always a trick.

I'm not a cheapskate. I would rather buy quality than crap, (Especially around a passion like bicycles) , but I don't want to toss money at something just because it's trendy.


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## bigbill (Feb 15, 2005)

rray said:


> Thanks so much for all the information. Finding a balance of form, function and reasonable price is always a trick.
> 
> I'm not a cheapskate. I would rather buy quality than crap, (Especially around a passion like bicycles) , but I don't want to toss money at something just because it's trendy.


Both bikes you mention are quality, either way you can't go wrong. People have been riding steel bikes since they were invented and will be for decades to come.


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## mbaha (Jul 2, 2007)

Yes, the cross check 
<a href="https://picasaweb.google.com/lh/photo/LpCojzE6nD5h9UlcFJAGxg?feat=embedwebsite"><img src="https://lh3.ggpht.com/_38c2nql9KB0/SYt0ZNsrGBI/AAAAAAAAACU/3Wc41zn4L8k/s800/DSCF0780.JPG" /></a>


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## sometimerider (Sep 21, 2007)

mbaha said:


> Yes, the cross check


Whoa! Your reflectors! What brand?


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## sscooterguy (Jun 20, 2008)

Surley cross check for all rounder. Touring, rock solid, great geometry, versatile bike. Get some rock solid wheels and you're set. I wouldn't worry too much about the weight, its easier and cheaper to loose weight from your body or your accessories (rack, pannier's, packing light) than to worry about the extra pound from your frame. If this is gonna be your go to and all around bike for your retirement or near retirement, go get it fitted professionally once fully built up. 

If money is no concern (or if you're willing to be patient and ebay it), ever consider titanium? Rock solid, and great road dampening capabilities. Just throwing it out there...you can catch it, throw it right back if you don't like it.


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## mbaha (Jul 2, 2007)

sometimerider said:


> Whoa! Your reflectors! What brand?


Just basic SOLAS 3m tape, you only need about 2ft to do the whole bike
http://www.landfallnavigation.com/ssrt1.html


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## AkMJ29 (Feb 12, 2009)

Good advice guys. I've actually just registered on this site to find out about a commuter specific bike. I'm looking at the Salsa Casseroll. I 

I have a rigid Salsa El Mariachi mtb and it is my only bike right now. It has worked beautifully the last year as off-roader and commuter. I live in Alaska and commute through the winter as well. 

Thanks again for posting this rray.


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## Indyfan (Mar 30, 2004)

*Another bike similar to the Club Racer*

I saw a post or two about Gunnars. If you like the idea of the Club Racer from IF but don't want to spend that much you could go with a Gunnar Sport. It is more similar to the Club Racer than the LHT would be. Quality steel frame handnmade in WI and you can get a nice steel fork for it. I have a Sport in the works right now. 4 stock color choices and 3 "color of the month" options. 

Bob


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## rray (Nov 7, 2008)

Thanks for all the information. This is what I ended up buying.


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## rodar y rodar (Jul 20, 2007)

Great! Did you find a used one, or was one holed up somewhere? Or did they start building them again?


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## SelfPropelledDevo (Aug 12, 2008)

Hunter 29er


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## holy cromoly (Nov 9, 2008)

The Kona Kapu or Honky Tonks are very versatile do-all bikes. They can be built up as fast club rides, long distance all-day or light touring.


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## rray (Nov 7, 2008)

I found a used one that had been built up in 2005. This forum has been most helpful in educating me about the bike.


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## tarwheel2 (Jul 7, 2005)

*Heron*

Congratulations on the Heron! Post some photos of your bike. Heron was on the shortlist for my next bike, but then they quit making them. I've posted in other threads about my new Bob Jackson commuter/touring bike, and it is very similar in design to your Heron.


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## RedRex (Oct 24, 2004)

I use a Soma DoubleCross as my "do-everything" bike which includes....

usage
95% heavy-load commuting
5% weekend training rides in the winter.

Mail-ordered the frame for $500 and built it up myself, including rear rack and front Tubus Tara rack which makes all the difference. For DC training rides I just pop the racks off which takes ten minutes, but leave on the fenders. Sometimes I use a clip-on seatpost rack for winter training rides after I take the rear rack off, since my panniers are sort of bolted on there. ;-)

The secret-main goal was to take the miles off my custom Steve Rex and it is doing that AND THEN SOME. 36mm tires make it very, very appealing to take out in the morning let me just say that right now.


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## carter1 (Aug 5, 2004)

*Cool!*

I get to post a pic of my bike again!
Carl Strong steel "dirt road" frame and fork, Carl's choice of tubes-OX Platinum/Columbus Life I think, rack and fender mounts, I run 35mm tires, room for 32's w/fenders, Avid mech road discs, Ultegra group, Chris King mountain disc hubs, DT rr.11 rims, 32 hole, DT double butted, brass nipples, Thomson post and stem, Ritchey bio max bar, 747 spd's. The bike weighs 20.5 lbs with cages, pedals and computer. I have over 3000 miles on her now (unfortunately, I can't commute), to include numerous paved and off road centuries. 
I have a pair of Conti 25mm for strictly pavement rides, mostly in the mountains on the Blue Ridge Parkway, but most of the time, I run the big ones-I have a really hard time _not_ turning down every forest service road I see and doing some exploring!
Good luck!
c


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## vja4Him (Feb 25, 2009)

roadfix said:


> Here's my 'quality' bike that does everything. 26" wheeled LHT, skinny or fat tires, it'll take them all, poser or serious rides, doesn't matter.


I'll be ordering a LHT soon, and putting it to the test! Commuting, errands/shopping, bike camping and touring .... Can't wait to load that trucker down and head for the hills ... !!!


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## tedgrant (Jun 13, 2006)

carbon specialized tricross, under 20 pounds with nobby tires, under 18 lbs with 25c slicks, it truly does everything faster than a steel bike does ( I have steel as well)


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## palu (Aug 14, 2008)

I'm going to build up a Surly Cross Check this year. I'm hoping for it to do everything but the rougher mtn trails (I have a Monocog 29er for that, though). This would be the KLR650 version of the do-it-all bicycles.


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