# Car vs Bike in Lafayette



## rhauft (Aug 8, 2006)

Wednesday (07/16/08) in Lafayette, on St. Mary's road, I was assaulted by a 60+ year old white male driving a late model dark grey Infinity G35. First he passed me aggressively close. Then, as traffic stacked up in front of me I moved to the shoulder to pass the stopped cars in front of me. This same driver, obviously spotting me in his mirrors, maneuvered his car into the shoulder right in front of me to block my pass. I then moved to pass him on the left... As I did this he instantly bolted to the left trying to block me again! As I approached him from behind, just a few feet from his rear bumper he did the unthinkable and slammed on his brakes. I was probably about 5-6 feet behind him when he did this. I locked it up and crashed hard into the back end of his car, then flopped to the pavement behind. Fortunately we were only doing about 15 mph so I was not seriously injured. I popped up off the road and with my adrenalin spiking, had a nice little fit all over the rear deck and roof of his Infinity. Traffic was now stopped and he had no where to escape so he finally got out. Thanks to the other drivers who witnessed his assault I was able to compose myself and because of them I am not in jail. God knows what I would have done to this old man if they did not intervene. I took a breath and pulled my phone out of my jersey and dialed 911. Lafayette PD was there in minutes. The cop wrote up a report, taking both of our statements. The cop shrugged and said: "Your word against his, no one was seriously hurt, I can't force people to behave nicely, what do you want me to do?" Hindsight tells me I should have ripped his mirrors off and beat him with them. I've attached a pic of his plate. When you're on St. Mary's be on the lookout for him.








You can clearly see the crease my tire left on his bumper just right of his left tail light


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## mohair_chair (Oct 3, 2002)

At the very least, kick out his tail lights. Those things are expensive to replace, and if guy says anything to the cop, say it happened in the collusion. 

If you had witnesses, how could the cop say it was just his word against yours?


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## rhauft (Aug 8, 2006)

mohair_chair said:


> If you had witnesses, how could the cop say it was just his word against yours?


None of the witnesses were cops. "If a cop didn't see it, it never happened".


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## wipeout (Jun 6, 2005)

You ran into the back of him? Doesn't that mean that the collision was your fault, no matter how hard he hit the brakes?


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## rhauft (Aug 8, 2006)

wipeout said:


> You ran into the back of him? Doesn't that mean that the collision was your fault, no matter how hard he hit the brakes?


This is a very similiar scenario to the assault that occured on July 4th down in LA. Was that the cyclist fault to??? http://www.velonews.com/article/79771/la-incident-rallies-cycling-community
NO !!! If the driver intentionally maneuvers to block and create an accident, which is exactly what this M/F'er did. He had no reason to slam on his brakes other than to produce an accident. That's called assault with a deadly weapen with intent to commit bodily harm.


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## IRMB (Jul 15, 2008)

rhauft said:


> Wednesday (07/16/08) in Lafayette, on St. Mary's road, I was assaulted by a 60+ year old white male driving a late model dark grey Infinity G35. First he passed me aggressively close. Then, as traffic stacked up in front of me I moved to the shoulder to pass the stopped cars in front of me. This same driver, obviously spotting me in his mirrors, maneuvered his car into the shoulder right in front of me to block my pass. I then moved to pass him on the left... As I did this he instantly bolted to the left trying to block me again! As I approached him from behind, just a few feet from his rear bumper he did the unthinkable and slammed on his brakes. I was probably about 5-6 feet behind him when he did this. I locked it up and crashed hard into the back end of his car, then flopped to the pavement behind. Fortunately we were only doing about 15 mph so I was not seriously injured. I popped up off the road and with my adrenalin spiking, had a nice little fit all over the rear deck and roof of his Infinity. Traffic was now stopped and he had no where to escape so he finally got out. Thanks to the other drivers who witnessed his assault I was able to compose myself and because of them I am not in jail. God knows what I would have done to this old man if they did not intervene. I took a breath and pulled my phone out of my jersey and dialed 911. Lafayette PD was there in minutes. The cop wrote up a report, taking both of our statements. The cop shrugged and said: "Your word against his, no one was seriously hurt, I can't force people to behave nicely, what do you want me to do?" Hindsight tells me I should have ripped his mirrors off and beat him with them. I've attached a pic of his plate. When you're on St. Mary's be on the lookout for him.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


That just gets my blood boiling!

Riding through Danville the other day, a guy pulled up next to me in his ford excursion yelling "GET OFF THE FCUKING ROAD, YOU'RE NOT A CAR!" From there he continued yelling, waiving his arms, leaning over his wife out the window, etc, etc.

I pretty much lost it - and reciprocated in like manner. It's really hard to remain reasonable when people are idiots.


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## hclignett (Dec 18, 2006)

Just shoot two tires out and keep going.


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## Bertrand (Feb 1, 2005)

Not to condone the driver's obviously reprehensible behaviour, where I live it is illegal for a bicycle to pass a line of cars on the shoulder at a controlled intersection, unless it is on a specific bike path. Bike riders are expected to take their place in line like other vehicles


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## IRMB (Jul 15, 2008)

Bertrand said:


> Not to condone the driver's obviously reprehensible behaviour, where I live it is illegal for a bicycle to pass a line of cars on the shoulder at a controlled intersection, unless it is on a specific bike path. Bike riders are expected to take their place in line like other vehicles


The OP said nothing about an intersection.

This section of road gets crowded in rush hour - but there is a marked shoulder/bike lane. Cyclists generally stay in the bike lane - but as you know, CA law allows us to ride with traffic as well.

This is where drivers get confused - bikes ARE TRAFFIC. We're allowed every right to the road, just as much as they are.


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## wipeout (Jun 6, 2005)

rhauft said:


> This is a very similiar scenario to the assault that occured on July 4th down in LA. Was that the cyclist fault to??? http://www.velonews.com/article/79771/la-incident-rallies-cycling-community
> NO !!! If the driver intentionally maneuvers to block and create an accident, which is exactly what this M/F'er did. He had no reason to slam on his brakes other than to produce an accident. That's called assault with a deadly weapen with intent to commit bodily harm.


My take on these situations is: there are always going to be asshat drivers (like Mr. 6AXA9O9) out there that do this sort of stupid thing and I've learned to expect unreasonable behavior from ALL cagers and now give everyone more room - so if they do decide to slam on the brakes I'll have time to avoid. You might be right about the intended assault on his part (but the police didn't think so?), but I'd rather be alive than roadkill!

Glad you weren't hurt and will live to ride another day.


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## rhauft (Aug 8, 2006)

Bertrand said:


> "where I live it is illegal for a bicycle to pass a line of cars on the shoulder at a controlled intersection"


This incident occured on a straight two lane, two-way road and it did not occur in an intersection. I had every right to pass on a marked bike lane that he intentionally blocked.

Next!


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## wipeout (Jun 6, 2005)

rhauft said:


> This incident occured on a straight two lane, two-way road and it did not occur in an intersection. I had every right to pass on a marked bike lane that he intentionally blocked.
> 
> Next!


Now I'm confused by your original post. You say you were riding in the left lane - not in the bike lane when asshat passed you in an aggressive manner. As traffic stacked up for a light, you moved over to the shoulder to pass cars whereby asshat pulls into your space on the shoulder and then you try to pass him on the left, going back into the traffic lane. I guess traffic was moving again at this point, so you were behind him going 15 MPH when he hit the brakes and you ran into the back? Sounds like you had a lot of opportunities to back off and play it safe with this maniac!


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## rhauft (Aug 8, 2006)

Wrong again, I had no time to do anything other than react to an assult. You were not there and therefore have no way of knowing.

You ass-u-me...


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## Rojo Neck (Jun 23, 2008)

It sucks that this guy seems to have been harassing you but man, the road is the wrong place to try to prove that you have rights. When some idiot driver pulls that crap, the right thing to do is just back off and let him have the space, even if it's "rightfully" yours. That **** can escalate badly, and the cyclist will always lose. 

Retaliating by purposely attempting to damage the car makes you no better than him and could actually get you into worse trouble (I'm referring to the idea of ripping the mirrors off or kicking the lights in, not hitting the bumper if that was truly unavoidable).

It is hard to do but sometimes you just have to suck it up and be the bigger person. Did you *really* need to get around them that badly? Probably not. That is the same argument we as cyclists use when we get pissy at cars passing us too closely. Relax, it's only going to be a small delay.


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## wipeout (Jun 6, 2005)

rhauft said:


> Wrong again, I had no time to do anything other than react to an assult. You were not there and therefore have no way of knowing.
> 
> You ass-u-me...


All I know is what you wrote. You had the right to pass hime in the bike lane, but you said you were trying to pass on the left when he blocked the bike lane.


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## rhauft (Aug 8, 2006)

wipeout said:


> All I know is what you wrote. You had the right to pass hime in the bike lane, but you said you were trying to pass on the left when he blocked the bike lane.


Which I had every right to do. He did not have the right to impede my progress twice and then slam on his brakes for no other purpess except to cause me to crash. I did nothing to provoke this m/f'er. He clearly has issues with cyclists. Now, I have issues with him. I want to eat his liver while he watches...

A bike forum is the last place I'd figure I'd encounter this b/s. You monday morning quarterbacks need to ride more and type less. Hope this never happens to any of you.
It's a jungle out there.


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## wipeout (Jun 6, 2005)

rhauft said:


> Which I had every right to do. He did not have the right to impede my progress twice and then slam on his brakes for no other purpess except to cause me to crash. I did nothing to provoke this m/f'er. He clearly has issues with cyclists. Now, I have issues with him. I want to eat his liver while he watches...
> 
> A bike forum is the last place I'd figure I'd encounter this b/s. You monday morning quarterbacks need to ride more and type less. Hope this never happens to any of you.
> It's a jungle out there.


I ride/commute every day of the week. I do everything on a bike and I'm pretty sure I'm out on the roads more than you are. This sort of thing HAS happened to me, but I'm much smarter now and learned that in a bike vs. car confrontation, the car always wins no matter who is 'right' - so I ride less aggressively in traffic and in your situation (as you described it), I would have backed off as soon as the yahoo crowded into the shoulder. Sure, the cager was in the wrong and acting like a dick, but trying to get around a car that is intent on keeping in front of me would not be the smartest thing to do. Anyway, Peace and glad you were not hurt...


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## Gee3 (Jan 31, 2006)

Is there a way to go up the line to the police and complain about the cop's attitude towards the situation? Maybe go to his Supervisor? 

By your explanation is seems pretty obvious the guy was out to jack with you thus causing you harm. It seems that with witnesses, cops or not, their word should be enough to give the guy a ticket for endagering your life or wreckless driving or ? Or at the very least the cop should have verbally reprimanded the driver! 

If you witness a theft the cops won't discount your account because you're not a cop, right? Why is there a double standard for cyclists in Lafayette? 

The driver and cop drink too much cyclist Hater-ade! 

Sorry that happened to you but glad you're okay! If it happens again pretend to hurt your self... and since there is a possible injury than maybe the cop will do something.


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## Rojo Neck (Jun 23, 2008)

Gee3 said:


> Is there a way to go up the line to the police and complain about the cop's attitude towards the situation? Maybe go to his Supervisor?


I think a formal complaint to the Police Department would not be out of line. It probably won't cause anything to change on this specific case, but if there are future incidents, particularly any involving this officer, it will at least be on record. If the officer has a pile of similar complaints it could be useful in court.


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## B15serv (Apr 27, 2008)

I'd have a lawyer (or at least a friend pretending) call the guy and scare the crap out of him. If that would have happened in illinois the guy would have been ticketed a couple hundered bucks if not taken away in cuffs.


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## Rich_Racer (Jul 12, 2002)

This is basically the same as the stunt that the kid pulled in my post above/below - the HoP ride and ********. Is this getting more frequent? Are drivers generally more irritated for some reason? Or has this always been this way? I mean, I ride almost every day and have done for years, have always gotten abuse from drivers, but there seems to be a rise in actual attempts to injure cyclists - which is scary.

If you damage his car - try to do it in the middle of the night - or in a quiet bart station if he parks there during the day! I own a G37 and I'd absolutely hate it if someone keyed all three side panels of my beautiful car!


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## Rojo Neck (Jun 23, 2008)

Rich_Racer said:


> This is basically the same as the stunt that the kid pulled in my post above/below - the HoP ride and ********. Is this getting more frequent? Are drivers generally more irritated for some reason? Or has this always been this way? I mean, I ride almost every day and have done for years, have always gotten abuse from drivers, but there seems to be a rise in actual attempts to injure cyclists - which is scary.


I think there is a lot more of it in the summer months, simply because there are more cyclists on the road in the summer...so, more interactions, more opportunities for idiot drivers to pull crazy crap like both of these incidents.


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## wipeout (Jun 6, 2005)

Rojo Neck said:


> I think there is a lot more of it in the summer months, simply because there are more cyclists on the road in the summer...so, more interactions, more opportunities for idiot drivers to pull crazy crap like both of these incidents.



I have some serious questions about both the biker and cagers actions. If you read what rhauft wrote:



rhauft said:


> Wednesday (07/16/08) in Lafayette, on St. Mary's road, I was assaulted by a 60+ year old white male driving a late model dark grey Infinity G35. First he passed me aggressively close. Then, as traffic stacked up in front of me I moved to the shoulder to pass the stopped cars in front of me.


Was rhauft riding on the shoulder, or out in a traffic lane when the driver "passed agressively close"? He clearly states that he then "moved to the shoulder" as traffic backed up. In later posts, he claims there was a bike lane on St. Mary's road at this point (There is??).




rhauft said:


> This same driver, obviously spotting me in his mirrors, maneuvered his car into the shoulder right in front of me to block my pass. I then moved to pass him on the left...


This sounds dangerous. Traffic stacked up at a stop, and rhauft is trying to pass cars on the left, out in the middle of traffic. Legal? Don't know...




rhauft said:


> As I did this he instantly bolted to the left trying to block me again! As I approached him from behind, just a few feet from his rear bumper he did the unthinkable and slammed on his brakes. I was probably about 5-6 feet behind him when he did this. I locked it up and crashed hard into the back end of his car, then flopped to the pavement behind.
> Fortunately we were only doing about 15 mph so I was not seriously injured.


That sucks, but going 15 MPH in heavy traffic and ony 5 or 6 feet behind a moving car - a moving car that had to be weaving all over the road to try to block me? That's just asking for a some quality pavement time.




rhauft said:


> I popped up off the road and with my adrenalin spiking, had a nice little fit all over the rear deck and roof of his Infinity. Traffic was now stopped and he had no where to escape so he finally got out. Thanks to the other drivers who witnessed his assault I was able to compose myself and because of them I am not in jail. God knows what I would have done to this old man if they did not intervene. I took a breath and pulled my phone out of my jersey and dialed 911. Lafayette PD was there in minutes. The cop wrote up a report, taking both of our statements. The cop shrugged and said: "Your word against his, no one was seriously hurt, I can't force people to behave nicely, what do you want me to do?" Hindsight tells me I should have ripped his mirrors off and beat him with them. I've attached a pic of his plate. When you're on St. Mary's be on the lookout for him.


Glad is was ok, but totally avoidable, IMHO!


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## hafjell (Jun 4, 2008)

wipeout said:


> Glad is was ok, but totally avoidable, IMHO!


Biking foolishly does not give the auto driver the right to drive with intent to injure. They both might be wrong but the auto driver was behaving criminally. No need to apologize for that.


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## rhauft (Aug 8, 2006)

Cop: "I can't force people to behave nicely. It's your word against his... no one was seriously hurt... what do you want me to do?" 
He did ask me if I wanted to proceed with a citizens arrest since it was not witnessed by a cop (aka: never happened). I declined because that puts me at risk if a judge decides it was an unwarranted arrest. He advised me to sue for justice. Cops are useless to us. We are on our own out there... in the jungle.

My lawyer is a cycling mate of mine. I was scheduled to meet him on that day at Danville Peet's, which I did. We are waiting for the police report and then we will pursue civil action.
This M/Fer will pay for his actions.



Damages: 09 Orbea Orca / SRAM Red
bent der. hanger
scuffed rear der.
scuffed lever
scuffed saddle
bar tape

scuffed arm warmers (brand new 1 time used)
scuffed Sidi's

sore neck (whiplash)
sore knee
scuffed elbow

bad attitude... :-/



Wipeout: as always, you ASS-U-ME wrong.

I was on the shoulder through out this entire encounter except for the last 5 meters when I was forced into the road by a lunatic in a G35 who then bolted back out of the bike lane in front of me so he could brake check me into his rear bumper. He was the aggressor, not me. I was doing everything in my power to keep a cushion of space between me, him and the rest of traffic. That is how I ride everyday in traffic...

You weren't there and you ass-u-me I provoked this situation or at the least could have avoided it by being more passive. WRONG again. The only way I could have avoided this lunatic was by staying in bed. He was clearly the aggressor, not I. You weren't there, therefore you're not entitled to judge.

I am a 49 year old Cat 1 Masters. I have ridden and raced all over this continent and europe. I have also ridden, raced & toured all over the world on motorcycles. I think I've learned a thing or two about riding in traffic in my 49 years so don't even try to ASS-U-ME that you can teach me something about which you clearly have less experience.

Do you drive a G35?


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## wipeout (Jun 6, 2005)

rhauft said:


> Cop: "I can't force people to behave nicely. It's your word against his... no one was seriously hurt... what do you want me to do?"
> He did ask me if I wanted to proceed with a citizens arrest since it was not witnessed by a cop (aka: never happened). I declined because that puts me at risk if a judge decides it was an unwarranted arrest. He advised me to sue for justice. Cops are useless to us. We are on our own out there... in the jungle.
> 
> My lawyer is a cycling mate of mine. I was scheduled to meet him on that day at Danville Peet's, which I did. We are waiting for the police report and then we will pursue civil action.
> ...


Since you ask:

No, I don't own a G35, I own a Corvette - which is a garage queen. I 'drive' my bike, 270 miles a week, in San Jose, in traffic. Congrats on your Cat 1 and age. No assumptions at all, I'm only commenting on exactly what you wrote. If events unfolded differently than what you said in your original post, my apologies. Good luck with your civil suit.


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## filtersweep (Feb 4, 2004)

I believe it is legal to split lanes in CA--- at least I see it all the time with motorcycles, etc. It is legal where I live to split lanes on either the right or left--- and is written specifically to apply to bikes. Secondly, the "legality" really is not the point--- should the other driver be "enforcing" his view of the traffic laws?



Bertrand said:


> Not to condone the driver's obviously reprehensible behaviour, where I live it is illegal for a bicycle to pass a line of cars on the shoulder at a controlled intersection, unless it is on a specific bike path. Bike riders are expected to take their place in line like other vehicles


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## Rojo Neck (Jun 23, 2008)

filtersweep said:


> I believe it is legal to split lanes in CA--- at least I see it all the time with motorcycles, etc. It is legal where I live to split lanes on either the right or left--- and is written specifically to apply to bikes. Secondly, the "legality" really is not the point--- should the other driver be "enforcing" his view of the traffic laws?


That is of course the essence of what happened and definitely, no one, cyclist or motorist, should be attempting to enforce what the traffic laws are, or what they think they are, or should be. Especially not cyclists; we *will* lose that battle because we don't have a nice heavy vehicle to use as a weapon of enforcement.

It's true that in large part we are on our own out there but when you see stupid stuff like this idiot driver, you've really got to just let it go. Be the bigger person. Report the incident if necessary. But don't try to show anyone how much you know about bike laws...take a deep breath, count to ten, live to ride another day.


Edit: just so it's clear, rhauft, I am not accusing you of anything. It sounds as if you did everything reasonably possible to avoid it. It is a good thing you were able to stop in time and only hit his bumper rather than go through his rear window or worse. BTW I would have your forks and steerer tube very carefully checked if you haven't done so already. An impact like that could leave hidden damage.


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## cpark (Oct 13, 2004)

filtersweep said:


> I believe it is legal to split lanes in CA--- at least I see it all the time with motorcycles, etc. It is legal where I live to split lanes on either the right or left--- and is written specifically to apply to bikes. Secondly, the "legality" really is not the point--- should the other driver be "enforcing" his view of the traffic laws?


Good point.
I believe in California, it's perfectly legal to operate a motorcycle/bike between lanes even when the traffic is moving. I live in DC but originally from CA and anyone who visit CA for the first time will be shocked when they eyewitness a motorcycle blowing by vehicles between lanes. Whether that's safe or not is a debate for another day/thread.....


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## rhauft (Aug 8, 2006)

*HOP Police advice meeting*

This Saturday there will be a brief discussion about about CA vehicle code laws and how they relate to cyclists. The law and how it can and should be applied in the event of a motorist using their vehicle as a weapon.

This is important information that we all need to be aware of. I urge all of you who can make it this Saturday to do so. The talk will be brief (10 Minutes) and will be given by retired law enforcement officer Michael Freeman.

*REVISED :

11AM at the gas station at the bottom of Collier, this is the usual stop when we do this loop.*

I'll be there.


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## Rojo Neck (Jun 23, 2008)

Update? I'm curious to hear how this meeting went...any useful info?


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## rhauft (Aug 8, 2006)

Rojo Neck said:


> Update? I'm curious to hear how this meeting went...any useful info?


I actually knew the retired cop, he is a local cyclist that just happens to be a retired cop.
He was informal and informative. True to form 10 minutes-ish. He was aware of my altercation from other list server postings. He spoke mostly about our rights to a citizen's arrest and what the ramifications may be. FWIW he said I reacted properly to my situation and should pursue civil action against my assailant, which I fully intend on doing. He desribed it as road rage.


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## Amsmoore (Jun 11, 2008)

Did you get his insurance? Mention neck pain and they WILL settle.


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## rjsd (Nov 11, 2006)

You acted appropriately. Don't worry about the pacifists above that want to hand out flowers to those that attempt to kill bicyclists with their cars. At some point a malicious driver committing an assault should be dealt with directly. Most bicycle riders are just incapable & or afraid to defend themselves and claim that such a time never arises for the civilized individual. I am not that civilized yet. For reference it’s better to pound (dent) the roof from the side of a stopped vehicle, cars don’t move side to side so you are safer in that position.


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## Rojo Neck (Jun 23, 2008)

He may have acted appropriately for his case (unavoidable collision, by his story) but "dealing" directly with drivers in retaliation as you suggest is a great way to make things a lot worse for all of us.


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## rhauft (Aug 8, 2006)

Rojo Neck said:


> He may have acted appropriately for his case (unavoidable collision, by his story) but "dealing" directly with drivers in retaliation as you suggest is a great way to make things a lot worse for all of us.


How could it possibly get much worse than it already is? I've been 'sharing the road' for nearly 50 years and I've never seen it worse. I've been an amateur bike racer for 30 years and Ive seen things on the road that would curl your hair and boil your blood. I've been assaulted by motorists in and out of there cars more times in my racing/training career than I can remember. I've had teammates maimed for life by drunk drivers and I myself have been clipped and left for dead on more than one occasion. The way I see it is if a driver uses his car as a weapon against me or my mates and then sticks around afterward long enough to admire his work... Well, knowing that the police are of absolutely no value to us even when a blatant, unprovoked assault occurs. I have the right to defend and protect myself from this kind of aggression - And I will. If you think you can convince anybody that we come in peace, you are very naive and in for a huge disappointment that can be life threatening. We have no allies out there. We are on our own. Respect everyones rights 1st. Act accordingly and protect yourself at all times. Bottom line: They better kill me on the 1st pass because if they miss, I'll make sure I don't. It's jungle out there folks.


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## Rojo Neck (Jun 23, 2008)

Every time a cyclist reacts out of revenge at a motorist, another driver (and probably many others witnessing this idiocy) learns what moronic babies cyclists can be. What might have been allies or neutral parties become anti-cyclist in an instant. We don't need to add to the number. Sure, it is not always a great situation now, but **** like that will *definitely* make it worse. I don't want some jack-hole abusing me because he thought I was *you*. Or worse, having local authorities attempt to prohibit or limit cycling in places I like to ride because of your stupidity.

You certainly do have the right to *defend* yourself, but damaging someone's vehicle in retaliation is *NOT* self-defense. It is a stupid, childish, and offensive act (in both senses of the word). I'm rather surprised your cop friend did not mention that in your meeting. 

It is cliché and perhaps "pacifist", but the saying, "two wrongs don't make it right" holds true here. And in fact your wrong could go very, very wrong for you. Especially in your neck of the woods, you don't know what ******* is going to be carrying a gun or a baseball bat or crowbar. No amount of racing experience is going to give you the goods to outrun a car or truck. Don't be stupid. Once you are out of danger, get over it, report it, and move on.


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## rhauft (Aug 8, 2006)

Very naive. While you're out there trying to win hearts and mines, that F-150 is running your teammates off the road. Drivers will never get it and I'm not out there to convince anyone or win anybody over. I've too many road-scars from trying.

Plain & Simple: It's us vs them. Don't like the rules of the game? Try chess instead.


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## wipeout (Jun 6, 2005)

Rojo Neck said:


> Every time a cyclist reacts out of revenge at a motorist, another driver (and probably many others witnessing this idiocy) that learns what moronic babies cyclists can be. What might have been allies or neutral parties become anti-cyclist in an instant. We don't need to add to the number. Sure, it is not always a great situation now, but **** like that will *definitely* make it worse. I don't want some jack-hole abusing me because he thought I was *you*. Or worse, having local authorities attempt to prohibit or limit cycling in places I like to ride because of your stupidity.
> 
> You certainly do have the right to *defend* yourself, but damaging someone's vehicle in retaliation is *NOT* self-defense. It is a stupid, childish, and offensive act (in both senses of the word). I'm rather surprised your cop friend did not mention that in your meeting.
> 
> It is cliché and perhaps "pacifist", but the saying, "two wrongs don't make it right" holds true here. And in fact your wrong could go very, very wrong for you. Especially in your neck of the woods, you don't know what ******* is going to be carrying a gun or a baseball bat or crowbar. No amount of racing experience is going to give you the goods to outrun a car or truck. Don't be stupid. Once you are out of danger, get over it, report it, and move on.


Hey Rojo, stop beating your head against a brick wall, it's obvious where the problem is. :mad2: These guys want to go head to head with a 4000 pound car to prove a point, let them... Me, I'll do all I can to avoid these confrontations - like back off when someone wants to cut me off - repeatedly. I'll assert my right to the road in other ways (yeah call me a pacifist too).



rhauft said:


> How could it possibly get much worse than it already is? I've been 'sharing the road' for nearly 50 years and I've never seen it worse.


Never seen it worse? You've got to be kidding me, things are very much safer these days than they were in 1958. Even thought there are several times the number of cyclists, the number of fatalities have been dropping. Drivers are generally more aware and tolerant of cyclists now more than ever. I might know a little bit about this, I was hit by a car in the 60's as a kid, and then later in the early 80's as a racer in Texas. Like you, I've run into the back of cars a couple of times - situations that were totally avoidable on my part. I learned from those encounters and am still alive today.


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## Rojo Neck (Jun 23, 2008)

rhauft, save the bravado for the races. This is real life we are talking about here, not some stupid pissing contest. An attitude like that invites trouble and makes a bad situation worse. I would much rather read about how tough you are in the race results than in the obituaries.


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## wipeout (Jun 6, 2005)

rhauft said:


> Very naive. While you're out there trying to win hearts and mines, that F-150 is running your teammates off the road. Drivers will never get it and I'm not out there to convince anyone or win anybody over. I've too many road-scars from trying.
> 
> Plain & Simple: It's us vs them. Don't like the rules of the game? Try chess instead.


rhauft's rules of the game is what? Beat the crap out of anyone who drives too close to you? LOL, pathetic.


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## Rojo Neck (Jun 23, 2008)

wipeout said:


> Hey Rojo, stop beating your head against a brick wall, it's obvious where the problem is. :mad2: These guys want to go head to head with a 4000 pound car to prove a point, let them... Me, I'll do all I can to avoid these confrontations - like back off when someone wants to cut me off - repeatedly. I'll assert my right to the road in other ways (yeah call me a pacifist too).


I think they just talk a tough game. I doubt anyone is really stupid enough to follow through on that kind of BS.


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## rhauft (Aug 8, 2006)

If you're looking to change the world, join the peace corp, adopt a Darfur baby or get adopted by Angalina & Brad.

Mean while I'll be on my bike, just trying to keep a cushion of space between me and them...


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## Rojo Neck (Jun 23, 2008)

rhauft said:


> Mean while I'll be on my bike, just trying to keep a cushion of space between me and them...


As long as that's all you're doing: great. That is totally appropriate.

But cross the line of self-defense and into retaliation and you might get free flower delivery from someone's paci-FIST.


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## rhauft (Aug 8, 2006)

For non-confrontational pacifists you people sure are passive-aggressive on a keyboard...

*REMINDER:*
I'm the guy that was the victim of an unprovoked "assault with a deadly weapon with intent to commit bodily harm" 

I'm the guy that kept his head when I could have dropped right down to this turds level.

I'm the guy that reached for my phone (not a weapon) and called 911.

I'm also the guy that, when I demanded justice, recieved a blank stare from Lafayette PD.

Before you pacifists preach turning the other cheek, walk (ride) a mile in my shoes.


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## Rojo Neck (Jun 23, 2008)

rhauft said:


> Before you pacifists preach turning the other cheek, walk (ride) a mile in my shoes.


Been there, done that. I know very few cyclists who haven't had intimidation attempted on them in some way by a vehicle, if not outright hit, injured, or worse. You are not the only one. And you're not the only one who's had police agencies react that way. It still doesn't make it right to serve justice on your own.

Self-defense is totally appropriate to extricate yourself from a dangerous situation. But if you are advocating revenge or retaliation such as beating a car or smashing taillights, maybe we should alert the police to the fact that there is another idiot out on the roads of Lafayette.


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## rhauft (Aug 8, 2006)

Before you "alert the authorities" try reading and absorbing my last post.
Everything you're preaching, I executed at the scene of the crime.

Total waste of time communicating with self righteous preachers living in a false reality.
Next time you find yourself wedged in someones wheel well, lets see how passive YOU react...


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## Rojo Neck (Jun 23, 2008)

rhauft said:


> Before you "alert the authorities" try reading and absorbing my last post.
> Everything you're preaching, I executed at the scene of the crime.


I agree and if you will (can?) read back further I agreed that you did the right thing, and I still agree with that.

However, your later posts suggest that you would not have any problem taking it further than that, beyond self-defense.



> Total waste of time communicating with self righteous preachers living in a false reality.


I suppose it's an equal waste of time talking to a small-minded person who can't see the stupidity in trying to enforce the "law of the jungle" by using a bike and their bare hands against a multi-ton vehicle with an agitated driver.



> Next time you find yourself wedged in someones wheel well, lets see how passive YOU react...


Again, already been there and I'm sure I will be again. When I do (if I do; it seems that some adjustments to riding style and lane positioning can often prevent these situations to begin with) I assure you I will not be smashing in any taillights or pounding on the vehicle or otherwise trying to damage it or its occupants. A shout might be warranted, maybe a police report and mention to my club's list. But returning the violence is asking for more trouble. It's very tempting to lash out but that takes you down to, or even below the level of the original offense.


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## rhauft (Aug 8, 2006)

what ever... Good luck with all that.
...and good luck with "alerting the authorities". 
Just exposes your ignorance again.


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## Rojo Neck (Jun 23, 2008)

rhauft said:


> what ever... Good luck with all that.
> ...and good luck with "alerting the authorities".
> Just exposes your ignorance again.


I think you've exposed enough ignorance of your own to make us all look bad.

I don't intend to alert any authorities unless you are truly serious about "killing someone if they don't kill you first". Let me know. But I do wonder if Team CLIF Bar would be interested in hearing about your attitude on this topic.


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## rhauft (Aug 8, 2006)

Knock your self out. What are you, 11? You sound like someone's obnoxous little brother. 
While your at it, report me to the Internet police too. They've got a merit badge waiting for you Mr boy scout. Dweeb


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## mangotreat0808 (Sep 4, 2006)

Your reaction at that point when he slammed his brakes I believe was justified since he did it intentionally where you could have been killed. I hit a parked car at 15mph and broke my seat post (failure did not occur until after I rode it for two more days so the damage was not immediately apparent) - so have your seat post and fork checked out as an earlier poster suggested.

On the flip side, it sounded like early on you had already observed the tell tale signs of a moronic psychopath whose true character was manifested in full measure later on. I would - as a cyclist or even as a car driver - avoid this "psychiatric check-up dodger" at the earliest and not even dabble into who's going to win the battle. Just my two cents in this crazy world.


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## Amsmoore (Jun 11, 2008)

rhauft said:


> Before you "alert the authorities" try reading and absorbing my last post.
> Everything you're preaching, I executed at the scene of the crime.
> 
> Total waste of time communicating with self righteous preachers living in a false reality.
> Next time you find yourself wedged in someones wheel well, lets see how passive YOU react...


 Sorry for what happened to you, but have you ever heard the phrase "cooler heads prevailed"? Kicking in a guys taillight isn't going to help anything. 

We're cyclists. we have maybe a frame pump and a waterbottle? A cager can have anything, gun, knife, bat you name it. 

You're going to lose if you fight, both physically and legally. He says he say a dog in the road and braked to avoid it. What's your defense going to be? Your foot lodged itself in his tail light on accident? 

Just like in a car accident, your at fault for following to closely. Rear end collisions are always the following cars fault, almost without exception. I know its BS, and he did it on purpose, but that's the way it is.


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## IRMB (Jul 15, 2008)

Amsmoore said:


> Sorry for what happened to you, but have you ever heard the phrase "cooler heads prevailed"? Kicking in a guys taillight isn't going to help anything.
> 
> We're cyclists. we have maybe a frame pump and a waterbottle? A cager can have anything, gun, knife, bat you name it.
> 
> ...


Of the two involved in the altercation, our cyclist friend remained much cooler. He didn't kick in the tail light. He didn't swerve or move to cause an accident.

Re-read the thread, this is all monday morning quarter backing - and unfortunately the OP has found no solace in discourse with like minded individuals.


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## Amsmoore (Jun 11, 2008)

IRMB said:


> Of the two involved in the altercation, our cyclist friend remained much cooler. He didn't kick in the tail light. He didn't swerve or move to cause an accident.
> 
> Re-read the thread, this is all monday morning quarter backing - and unfortunately the OP has found no solace in discourse with like minded individuals.


I was writing to the people who think that damaging his property will "get even". He handled it fine. I would have got his insurance, though. 

I'm not sure what solace you're referring to. Theirs nothing we can do. We've said our grace expressing that we're glad he's ok and the damage is fairly minimal. 

He needs to take legal action if he wants anything else.


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## rhauft (Aug 8, 2006)

*Amen brother!*

At last, a voice of reason - Thank you IRMB :thumbsup: 



IRMB said:


> Of the two involved in the altercation, our cyclist friend remained much cooler. He didn't kick in the tail light. He didn't swerve or move to cause an accident.
> 
> Re-read the thread, this is all monday morning quarter backing - and unfortunately the OP has found no solace in discourse with like minded individuals.


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## Rojo Neck (Jun 23, 2008)

IRMB said:


> Re-read the thread, this is all monday morning quarter backing - and unfortunately the OP has found no solace in discourse with like minded individuals.


Nor will he if he and others continue to advocate revenge.

Re-read the thread. I give him the benefit of the doubt for this incident. I agree that he did the right thing as it sounds like he had no other choice but to slam into his rear bumper. Unavoidable. Minor damage, no one was hurt. I have no problem with that and I believe I have stated that repeatedly. I even gave him some friendly advice to have his fork and steerer tube checked for hidden damage which is a real possibility with an impact such as that (have you done that yet?).

I do, however, have a big problem with later posts by him and others advocating retaliation, revenge, or other actions above and beyond self-defense. We all lose on that one.


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## wheel_suker (Feb 3, 2005)

The problem with Lafayette AND Danville cops are they arent cops at all. Those cities contract with the county to provide them with police support. They are county sheriffs masquarading as cops with cars and uniforms provided for them by those cities. The difference is sheriffs are all ex prison guards and have learnt to treat people differently as you have just experienced.


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## rhauft (Aug 8, 2006)

*Perspective after 1 week since this incident*

Spoke to Lafayette PD Business office today; they charge $67.50 per copy for the incident report...
...and it's still not filed "takes 7-10 working days". Nice schedule!

Perspective:

I realize how easy it is to try and dissect this situation after the fact. Ahh, The luxury of hindsight. I have no desire to relive this unfortunate event and I hope no one else has to either. Unfortunately, my (4) decades of experience on 2 wheels tells me otherwise. 

One thing that I clearly recall is that when this driver made his initial maneuver into the shoulder (to block me), my immediate thought was that he was either pulling over to park or pulling into a driveway. I remember slowing down as he was blocking or impeding my way. (Btw, a violation as I had the right of way on the shoulder/bike path). When he maneuvered his G35 into the shoulder he left the lane open. "Assuming" he was merely pulling over and not yet realizing I was under attack, I vectored left into the lane to go around him. When my attacker realized I was maneuvering around him he instantly leaped back out into traffic (me being the traffic). Again, a violation of my right of way. This is how I ended up right on his bumper and vulnerable to his 'brake check'. Fortunately, my speed was reduced to the point that I only sustained minor cuts & bruises along with a sore neck & muscles. All things considered, I'm very fortunate we were only doing about 15 mph. A 5 mph increase probably would have landed me in the hospital. Chock one up to experience.

Hindsight is a wonderful luxury that I didn't process last Wednesday morning. If I did, I'd probably have picked a different route to meet my mates. I will be on that same route tomorrow, this time armed only with perspective & hindsight. I appreciate the support from the majority of posters. Those that have chosen to 2nd guess me or give me 'the benefit of the doubt' are merely enjoying the luxury of my hindsight. Save your "assumptions". After all, you're just dissecting MY words and MY perspective. You weren't a witness to anything. Get over it... and of course YOU would have handled the situation far better than I... What ever. 

Only two people know exactly what went down on St Mary's Rd last Wednesday morning and rest assured, I will have the last word. With a little help from my attorney.

It's a jungle out there folks, be careful


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## Rojo Neck (Jun 23, 2008)

Best of luck to you in your case.


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## rhauft (Aug 8, 2006)

Thanks!


Rojo Neck said:


> Best of luck to you in your case.


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## cat.chili (Sep 10, 2006)

Best of luck in your case - what are you going after him on (in the civil case)? I don't practice law in CA, but it seems to me that you have a really good case for intentional tort (battery with his vehicle) and/or assault (swerving towards you). Any chance you'll be abe to get corroboration on what happened from any of the people on the scene?

JJH


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## Amsmoore (Jun 11, 2008)

rhauft said:


> Spoke to Lafayette PD Business office today; they charge $67.50 per copy for the incident report...
> ...and it's still not filed "takes 7-10 working days". Nice schedule!
> 
> 
> Those that have chosen to 2nd guess me or give me 'the benefit of the doubt' are merely enjoying the luxury of my hindsight. Save your "assumptions". After all, you're just dissecting MY words and MY perspective. You weren't a witness to anything. Get over it... and of course YOU would have handled the situation far better than I... What ever.


Our PD took 12 hours to file my car-bike accident report. It was free. Their fawking you.


Dude, you created a post on a public messageboard. People have opinions. You received those opinions

No one's gonna stroke you cause you had a minor incident with a car.


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## Rojo Neck (Jun 23, 2008)

Amsmoore said:


> Our PD took 12 hours to file my car-bike accident report. It was free. Their fawking you.


I was kind of wondering about that.

rhauft: are they charging you a fee to *file* the report? Or is that for receiving a copy of it? Either way it's kind of ridiculous but I guess I would not be surprised to hear that a revenue-hungry county charges fees for getting copies of stuff like that. Maybe you can recover that + attorney fees as part of your case.


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## rhauft (Aug 8, 2006)

Thanks JJH,
Short answer: Nothing & no witnesses bothered to stick around.

As much as this guy deserves it, I have no desire or ambition to drag this guy through the courts. He deserves worse but I have no stomach for it. I simply want my personal property restored/repaired or replaced that he damaged in the "accident". I plan to send him a bill on my attorney's letterhead. The bill will include everything he scuffed/damaged as it was all in perfect condition before he knocked me down. Hopefully he does the right thing and writes me a check. If he does, I'll go away. If he doesn't, we'll be looking for punitive damages. As previously stated, I was lucky that I was not seriously hurt. The next guy this guy knocks down may not be so lucky. He needs a clear message sent - for all of us who ride and have to put up with this crap.




cat.chili said:


> Best of luck in your case - what are you going after him on (in the civil case)? I don't practice law in CA, but it seems to me that you have a really good case for intentional tort (battery with his vehicle) and/or assault (swerving towards you). Any chance you'll be abe to get corroboration on what happened from any of the people on the scene?
> 
> JJH


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## rhauft (Aug 8, 2006)

Amsmoore said:


> Our PD took 12 hours to file my car-bike accident report. It was free. Their fawking you.
> Dude, you created a post on a public messageboard. People have opinions. You received those opinions
> No one's gonna stroke you cause you had a minor incident with a car.


My opinion of you is about the same as the other monday morning QB's on here. You remind me of all those gawkers in their cars who just sat there in stopped traffic and stared at me without bothering to even open there window to assist a stricken cyclist.


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## Amsmoore (Jun 11, 2008)

rhauft said:


> My opinion of you is about the same as the other monday morning QB's on here. You remind me of all those gawkers in their cars who just sat there in stopped traffic and stared at me without bothering to even open there window to assist a stricken cyclist.


Stricken cyclist? Dude. Stop being a little girl. You got in a bad situation. That sucks. I'm sorry for what happened.

Get up, walk it off. If you can walk, you're probably not seriously injured. You where well enough to take a picture of what happened and post about it. 

You're not the only person that's ever been tagged by a cager, and your accident happened at a pretty low speed. You're not badly hurt. Its not a big deal. 

Your probably going to get a nice check from his insurance to "shut up and go away". Its what happened to me, and they don't want to deal with personal injury and doctor costs of hunting down a soft tissue injury that might not exist.


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## rhauft (Aug 8, 2006)

Your support is underwhelming... Apparently cars are not the exclusive choice of transportation for a$$holes. 



Amsmoore said:


> Stricken cyclist? Dude. Stop being a little girl. You got in a bad situation. That sucks. I'm sorry for what happened.
> 
> Get up, walk it off. If you can walk, you're probably not seriously injured. You where well enough to take a picture of what happened and post about it.
> 
> ...


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## loudog (Jul 22, 2008)

always remember that your shoe cleats make excellent weapons and hurt like hell when whacked against someone's head. using your shoes also increases the reach of your swing, take them off and swing away!


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## Amsmoore (Jun 11, 2008)

rhauft said:


> Your support is underwhelming... Apparently cars are not the exclusive choice of transportation for a$$holes.


Whew, good one. That stung.

Stop being a little pu$$y and whining about a fender bender. 

All you've done is whine and complain about how unfair we've all been. You got hit by a car at low speeds. BFD. 

What do you want, flowers?


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## tobu (Dec 19, 2004)

appeasement worked pretty well in 1939.


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## rhauft (Aug 8, 2006)

There's no 'we' here, just harmless virtual jacka$$es like you, jacka$$.
I actually enjoy the diversion. Beats getting run over anyway... 
and no flowers please, I'm very happily married. I'll keep my eyes open for you though  



Amsmoore said:


> Whew, good one. That stung.
> 
> Stop being a little pu$$y and whining about a fender bender.
> 
> ...


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## Amsmoore (Jun 11, 2008)

rhauft said:


> There's no 'we' here, just harmless virtual jacka$$es like you, jacka$$.
> I actually enjoy the diversion. Beats getting run over anyway...
> and no flowers please, I'm very happily married. I'll keep my eyes open for you though


Read the reply's, champ. 

You got called out, and then played the "but we're all cyclists, you should all stroke my ego about how horrible the accident was" card. Didn't work so well, did it? 

Nice try on the redirect, though.


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## rhauft (Aug 8, 2006)

Re-read entire thread... and your still a JACKA$$  



Amsmoore said:


> Read the reply's, champ.
> You got called out, and then played the "but we're all cyclists, you should all stroke my ego about how horrible the accident was" card. Didn't work so well, did it?
> Nice try on the redirect, though.


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## Amsmoore (Jun 11, 2008)

tobu said:


> appeasement worked pretty well in 1939.


:lol:


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## Amsmoore (Jun 11, 2008)

rhauft said:


> Re-read entire thread... and your still a JACKA$$


Whatever dude.


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## rhauft (Aug 8, 2006)

I accept your appology (dude) :thumbsup: 


Amsmoore said:


> Whatever dude.


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