# The Cannondale Dilemma



## minimojos (Mar 16, 2004)

Hey guys, 

I am thinking about purchasing a new Cannondale. I am debating the pros and cons of the R5000 and the six13. I realize the R5000 is going to be a stiffer ride but I am not really sure how big of a deal that really is. I have ridden the bikes around the block a bit (the lbs does not like to see thier six13's stray away too far) and I can't really get an honest feel for either. The R5000 seems to be a fantastic deal and its light as hell, so any interjections, biases and opinions on behalf of the Cannondale forum would be much appreciated!

Cheers!


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## GoHabs (Nov 10, 2004)

minimojos said:


> Hey guys,
> 
> I am thinking about purchasing a new Cannondale. I am debating the pros and cons of the R5000 and the six13. I realize the R5000 is going to be a stiffer ride but I am not really sure how big of a deal that really is. I have ridden the bikes around the block a bit (the lbs does not like to see thier six13's stray away too far) and I can't really get an honest feel for either. The R5000 seems to be a fantastic deal and its light as hell, so any interjections, biases and opinions on behalf of the Cannondale forum would be much appreciated!
> 
> Cheers!


I had the same dilemma a few months ago.

I used to ride a R2000 (caad 7 + ultegra) and really liked the feel of it but the bike was stolen. I tried the 6/13 but finally came to the conclusion that the R5000 was the best quality - price deal I could get. 

I received my R5000 Friday and so far, I couldn't be happier about the choice (however I've only tried it on the trainer). It's very light (about 18 pounds, pedals included) and has an awsome paint job (go with the grey).


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## El Guapo (Dec 10, 2002)

*R5000 Caad8 ALL the way!*

I got mine 2 weeks ago. Grey in a 54. Couldn't be happier. Came from a steel ride (Thron tubing). I must say, the Optimo feels smoother over the same roads. I doubt it's the carbon post or my mind. It's over 1200 bones cheaper than the equivalent Six13 version and the only thing you're missing is the upgraded wheels (either DA10 or SSC SL vs. Ksyrium Elites) upgraded bar (K Wing vs. RD250 aluminum) and upgraded post (USE Alien vs. Cannondale Wind). Save the 1200 and go with the 5000 Caad8. You won't regret it.


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## bikerbrian (Oct 20, 2004)

I had the same decision and after riding the six13 and caad8 I couldn't really feel a difference. I ordered the r5000 caad8 in blue, it should be here next month. I havn't had a chance to ride the caad8 with dura ace yet but I can't wait. It is really a great value or if your like me you just plan on taking all of the money you saved on the frame and put it back into the bike (or bike stuff) later


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## minimojos (Mar 16, 2004)

Yeah, my wallet has been pushing me in the direction of the R5000 as well. The problem is seeing the sexy Saeco paintjob with the carbon pieces peeking through on the Six13 compared to the R5000 (all though I love the grey look). What do you guys think of the crankset on the R5000? Did any of you up grade your wheelset? What did you end up paying for yours?


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## El Guapo (Dec 10, 2002)

*The FSA Pro Team crankset is alright ...*

The chainrings aren't ramped and pinned like the Dura-Ace, but they shift fine. I've garnered more compliments from fellow riders on my grey R5000 than I can count. The other members on my team have the grey Six13's and several have expressed jealousy about how much I saved on the R5000. Don't bother upgrading the wheels unless you plan on going with a race-specific wheelset. I kept the elites for training and everyday use and will get a set of Reynolds DV's for racing. DEFINITELY upgrade the tires and tubes! They put superlight tubes and Hutchison Fusion Comp tires on this ride. Unless you like getting flat tires every 2 miles, change these immediately. Pro Races, Attack/Force, GP3000's are all SUPERIOR alternatives. As for price ... I got my '05 R5000 with upgraded saddle (White/chrome Arione), Arundel Matte Carbon Cages, Deda Newton non-Anatomic Shallow, Sigma Sport BC1600 computer and Cycle-ops Fluid2 trainer for a tad over $3k. All this for $600.00 less than JUST the Six13 equivalent? R5000 Caad8 all the way. You won't be disappointed.


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## minimojos (Mar 16, 2004)

One more quick question, how has the R5000 felt on the quick decents?


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## El Guapo (Dec 10, 2002)

*Rock solid on decents...*

Keep in mind, I'm coming from a steel frame with 1" steer tube and slack geometry. The R5000 decents without a hint a speed wobble. My fastest on the Univega was 52.3mph. That was the most scared I have ever been. That bike was brutally unstable at any speed over 44. Top speed on the same hill on the R5000 ... 56mph this past Sunday with crosswinds. Felt as if I could have done it no handed. I think getting fit professionally has ALOT to do with this! The bike responds to pedal force instantly. There's no perceived lag at all. My old frame felt like it wound up before it released. The Caad8 frame jumps. That's the cheesiest way to explain it, but accurate none the less. Funny thing is, as stiff as it is, it rides noticeably smoother over the same roads as my previous steel ride.


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## minimojos (Mar 16, 2004)

Thanks!! I am getting a bit excited to go crush some climbs!!!


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## El Guapo (Dec 10, 2002)

*Climbing! A whole new experience ...*

I'm sure other aluminum frames climb as well, but this one's brought a new light to climbing for me. That same attributes that make it soooooo strong and stiff laterally in the sprints are the same as those that make climbing (seated or standing) a dream. Good luck with your decision. A NEW bike is always the BEST feeling.


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## minimojos (Mar 16, 2004)

I could not agree more, thanks for the advice!


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## GoHabs (Nov 10, 2004)

minimojos said:


> I could not agree more, thanks for the advice!


El Guapo, you're killing me. I have to look at my R5000 for another 2 months before I can think about riding outside - it's damn cold here in Quebec. 

Can't wait to ride my new bike outside.


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## beergood (Feb 16, 2005)

I never got a chance to ride a 6/13 but I can't imagine being any happier than I am with my standard 5000. Due to crappy weather I have only been able to log about 20 miles or so, and it's slowly killing me.

My previous road bikes (well, not quite previous since I still have them) were an older Bianchi Limited (comfy/slow) and Cannondale Crit (harsh/fast). I love both of them, and used them depending on what I wanted to accomplish that day. After the first few miles on the 5000 I couldn't belive how comfy it was while maintaining the older Cannondales ability to rocket forward on a sprint.

In short, I think the 6/13 suffers from the law of diminishing returns. I can't imagine the extra pemium in price translating equally into performance gain. Of course there is the cool factor to consider.


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## minimojos (Mar 16, 2004)

Yeah and that Saeco paint job!!! I have to say that the asthetics play a huge part in deciding a bike too.


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## dave11 (Jan 31, 2003)

*You are correct here...*



beergood said:


> I never got a chance to ride a 6/13 but I can't imagine being any happier than I am with my standard 5000. Due to crappy weather I have only been able to log about 20 miles or so, and it's slowly killing me.
> 
> My previous road bikes (well, not quite previous since I still have them) were an older Bianchi Limited (comfy/slow) and Cannondale Crit (harsh/fast). I love both of them, and used them depending on what I wanted to accomplish that day. After the first few miles on the 5000 I couldn't belive how comfy it was while maintaining the older Cannondales ability to rocket forward on a sprint.
> 
> In short, I think the 6/13 suffers from the law of diminishing returns. I can't imagine the extra pemium in price translating equally into performance gain. Of course there is the cool factor to consider.


The six 13 is better, but $1200 better - not really! I bought the six13 this year but with a team deal so the difference was not as great. Plus I had the money from recent bike sale. And actually the main reason was because I needed an in-between size (59) that I could get frame only in all alum.


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## minimojos (Mar 16, 2004)

I ended up going with the Six13. I found my size on Ebay with the full dura ace and Kysirium SL wheels for 2800. The bike had less than 100 miles on it so I am a pretty happy guy!


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## dave11 (Jan 31, 2003)

*nice!*

that is a really good deal!


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## minimojos (Mar 16, 2004)

dave11 said:


> that is a really good deal!


Apparently he was given the team price and although he took a hit, it was not as bad as a if I had bought and sold it.


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## minimojos (Mar 16, 2004)

What do you think of the K-Wing?


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## dave11 (Jan 31, 2003)

*K-wing*



minimojos said:


> What do you think of the K-Wing?


I think I am going to sell mine and go back to a standard bar. The tops are too inclined up for me, makes wrists sore. I have others say that it is a perfect fit for them though, so I think it is personal preference. It is stiffer than I thought it might be, plenty stiff.


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## minimojos (Mar 16, 2004)

dave11 said:


> I think I am going to sell mine and go back to a standard bar. The tops are too inclined up for me, makes wrists sore. I have others say that it is a perfect fit for them though, so I think it is personal preference. It is stiffer than I thought it might be, plenty stiff.


I'm in the same boat. I sure love the look of it though. I wonder if the Cinelli's feel any better?


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## 64deville (Dec 28, 2004)

I would go with the R5000. Having worked on both bikes and contemplated a similiar deal, the R5000 is definately the way to go. The Six13 is appealing in that it is a new direction for Cannondale (Carbon in the frame) but the aluminum CAAD 8 frames in my opinion are just as good and cheaper. Consider this, last years R3000 (Full Dura Ace, SSC wheels etc) weighed in at about 16.5 lbs. This years Six13 w/ full Dura Ace and SSC's comes in at about 17 lbs.

Don't fall in love with the Saeco paint scheme either. I've heard it won't be available much longer if it hasn't gone out of production already. The sponser is changing and I've heard they have pulled or are planning on pulling the team logos off the red frames. 

Let Cannondale work with the Carbon for another year or two and then look into a SIX13. Chances are they will have gotten some of the 1st year kinks out and the price will likely have come down a bit as well.


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## beergood (Feb 16, 2005)

Until you've replaced the two tubes it came with, I'd ride with two spares. I managed to blow both mine in the first 40 miles on one ride, doing nothing spectacular. Not especially rough roads either. Of course one blowout was in the parking lot of my LBS. Sunday, they closed early. Joke's on me. At least the second flat was a slow leak and I was able to get home.

If you ever wanted to know how fast you can change a tube, do it behind a diner on the border of a ghetto. At least it was kind of cool out so I had on a jacket and track pants, instead of the 'hey look at the bike-dork' harrasment wear.

Other than that, I am in love with this ride. It's smoother than my old steel Bianchi, granted a lower end far east Bianchi, and a hell of a lot smoother than my old Cannondale.


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## minimojos (Mar 16, 2004)

I have put a couple hundred miles on my new Six13 and I could not be happier!!! I get a stupid grin on my face everytime I look at the bike. It is so much smoother than my Felt and mine wieghs under 17 lbs. I am really growing to love the K-Wing bar and I think this ride will keep me happy for sometime!!!


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## moonkat (Dec 12, 2004)

*Six:13 v R5000*

Gang,
You guys have been a great source of info/experience in my hunt for the elusive C'dale....actually the best bike for me.

Did the Fit kit drill today (can you say Proctologist ?!) Dang, the kid should go into medecine, he's got the discomfort level perfect.

While they're cranking numbers (must be a PIII with 256K ram) I notice a 56cm 2004 R2000 with (yes !!!) Kysirium SLs and in the red I love !!! About that time the tech brings out a 57cm Six:13 R2000 (I think, the base Six:13), the Saeco stickers on red...
I try the R2000 - laps around the parking lot - my brain screaming: "so this is what technology has advanced in 20 years ?!" !!! Brifters, sub 16lb weight (felt like it anyway), can you say "climb", full Ultegra - who needs DA with this level of quality; what do you mean alu is harsh, carbon did not exist at the time of my first bike (heavy steel sprinter) !!!
Then I heft the Six:13 - It's friggin 2 lbs heavier !!! Campy, regrets, I'm a Shimano fan in spite of their outrageous price jump. This is my second new road bike in 20 years. The first one with DA is still like new, so the second Shimano Groupo should see me to the casket ! The sig ot says I deserve it !, The dealer says Kysirium SL upgrade for $300 ; I think it's going to be a R5000 kind of B'day.....life is good ....

The above brought to you by two glasses (large) of red Cabernet.

That R2K was amazing ! Effortless motion ! Expect same from R5K ... 
"Thanks for all the fish"... that is, for all the good advice. ZZZzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz


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## minimojos (Mar 16, 2004)

Wow, that had a manic fanatic sort of taste to it! Just what this sport needs if you ask me. There truely is nothing better in life (for someone who makes around 40 a year at least) than a new bike. I really felt excited for you just reading your post. Last night I happened to be watching Hellraizer and realized I have a sort of massochistic love affair with my bike. Its suppose its a bit sick to get so much pleasure from so much pain, and with the way my ass feels right now after climbing back on the saddle (SLR Carbino) from a 5 month hiatus, perhaps it would be appropriate to watch Deliverance tonight. Sorry, probably more information than you cared to hear, but I figured most of you could relate...


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## tenorman (Dec 30, 2004)

moonkat said:


> Gang,
> You guys have been a great source of info/experience in my hunt for the elusive C'dale....actually the best bike for me.
> 
> Did the Fit kit drill today (can you say Proctologist ?!) Dang, the kid should go into medecine, he's got the discomfort level perfect.
> ...


I love my Zurich but my LBS made a killer deal for me on a 2005 CAAD8 R5000. Took it out for the first time today and it made me almost feel like a climber on some of those hills! And I never thought of myself as a climber before. Really responds to my pedal strokes, just what I wanted. Best to you in your quest!


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## moonkat (Dec 12, 2004)

*C'dale hunting season ...*

There I was alone .. in the forest of bikes. It didn't see me, for the familiar tech waving measuring tapes and crotch-crutch around me. Especially the finale .. I was on my knees with the evil crotch-crutch in position (this has got to be done to measure tolerance to discomfort/pain (over 10 sec and they bring out pointier devices) .. fortunately I succumbed immediately !!! The tech disapeared to the shop back room looking at his sheet of symbols chanting and waving his hands about his mystic box .. conjuring a match between mine and the prospective bike's persona (I guess !?). 

My 20 yr old bike (an odd 60cm frame size with 58cm top tube and 120mm stem) was always a stretch but carried me though numerous centuries, and road races (can you say Dick Evan's memorial rr, and yes named for the guy cause he died on the route - not the diffuculty of the course, he had help from a bus). So all this strong medicine to learn my new numbers - and also learned that I have shrunk 2" in the last 30 yrs ! Thinking was I would fit a 58cm in general as the Trek 5200 in 58cm was comfortable.

I was no threat, obvious from my whimpering display, but freed now to look about for prey - "specials" and "good values" among the mighty Treks, and Specialized, the gorgeous Kleins and other trophy game. If I were fortunate enough to bag any of these it is I who would bleed...green. 
It caught my eye... that candy apple red color, just a glimpse of that color that must be a remnant of some cherished memory of mine. I stalked it through the forest of bikes, first one way then another to see more of that red.. til I was upon it... 

I realized a week ago, after lusting for 5200s, 5.2s and F2Cs for months, that the R-thousands suited my goals of efficiency and climbing; further that the R3000 best suited my goals to ride comfortably with the B-Group and draft the A-Group of my LBC - when the A-Group gods deigned their presence among mortals (like the time last Fall when they did their early morning sprint then came back to lead the B-Group ride and proceeded to drop me at the first hill..).
But that was an 04 - Optimo7, Ultegra, and Ksyrium SSC SL.... SLs that would enable me to climb hills in spite of my ... condition. No SLs on the 05 C'dale line til high up where I would bleed out. I could get the R1000 (no discount) with SLs for $300 and or an R5000 in compact crank with the SLs (2900 tot plus 5% tax). This was my plan b.

But wait, the red one is an R-thousands, yes a 56cm R2000 .. with SLs ... with clearance tag and an attainable cost ($1800) !!! 

I learned from this forum that C'dales measure their frames differently and folks have downsized from Trek to C'dale (yo, Gohans) so I was hopeful.

The forest is darkening and the hunt must wait til daybreak when the tech spell is cast and the mystic box reveals its vision...

So I went in the next morning and tech says the 58 may be a little too big and your dimensions closely match the 56 except for the stem which you should reduce by 10mm and I say I'll take it !

This is the season of Hunting the C'dale.
Let it next be the season of Riding !
Thanks all, Enjoy !


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## dawgcatching (Apr 26, 2004)

Another vote for the CAAD8 frame. While I really like the Six13, the CAAD8 is almost as smooth and much lighter. Very, very good ride for aluminum: I would venture to say that this is one of the best aluminum frames available from anyone-period. If the ride beats you up, much more would be gained with higher tpi tires (I am using Clement Ventoux clinchers at 290 tpi) and an Arione seat than getting a more "comfortable" frame. With that said, my main bike is currently a Fondriest Carb Lex, as the stiffness on the Lex is out of this world, and is a little better handling than the CAAD7/8. But, we are talking huge discrepancy in price, so some difference is to be expected. With that said, the C-Dale's are no-brainer bargains-you can get into a Campy equipped CAAD8 (R900) with all-carbon fork for $1600! Upgrade the wheels and seat, and it is a serious bike for under $2K. I was riding the 2004 R1000 for much of the season last year, and that bike had no weaknesses.


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## divve (May 3, 2002)

Cannondale is releasing a full carbon bike model called "Synapse" in May (presumably). Around that time also a new and lighter Six13. Rumored is also one is bare aluminum just like Gibi has.


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## 64deville (Dec 28, 2004)

divve said:


> Cannondale is releasing a full carbon bike model called "Synapses" in May (presumably). Around that time also a new and lighter Six13. Rumored is also one is bare aluminum just like Gibi has.



Hadn't heard about the full carbon frame but the rumor on the Six13 is they are going to make the seat tube out of aluminum instead of the carbon aluminum mix currently in use. This change is supposed to lighten it up a bit. This will make the ones w/ carbon seat tubes rare in the future.


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## zamboni (Sep 11, 2003)

Cannondale managed to shave off 250 grams on 05 Six13 frame.


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## minimojos (Mar 16, 2004)

It just goes to show, just as soon as you think you have the latest and greatest, something better pops up a month later.


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