# Hill climbs to train for distance.



## gforcepdx (Jul 23, 2012)

I'm 52 and been riding 2 1/2 months. My short term goal is to ride me first century soon, but my longest ride to date has been 60 miles last Sunday, with 50% of that over hilly terrain. I tried the same ride three days later on Wednesday and only managed 40 miles. Maybe I'm pushing for too much, too soon. It's seven days later now and I'm going to work on hill climbs instead of distance. There's a 14 mile ride with 3000' of gain I want to do. I've read that to train for distance you just need to put in the time, but I've also read that mixing things up is good, and that nothing builds muscle quite so quickly as hill climbs. The trouble I seem to have been having in the past, is that distance rides take so much recovery time. Two weeks ago I was doing daily rides of 31 miles. I did these for 2 weeks but stopped eventually because I realized needed the down time to regenerate. In the past, every gain of 10 more miles has meant that I'm pretty worthless for the week to follow.


----------



## Fireform (Dec 15, 2005)

I'm your age, and I can say I needed substantially more recovery time than I once did. I wouldn't ride on consecutive days for a while if I were you, and allow at least one day of recovery after a hard effort. 

I ride about 250 miles a week and it's not rare for me to do back to back centuries on a weekend, but I counsel patience. I was nowhere near doing this after 2.5 months.


----------



## ericm979 (Jun 26, 2005)

I started cycling again at age 40 (I'm your age now) and it took me 6 months before I could attempt a metric century. You're doing very well.

Track your training volume by time, not distance. Otherwise when you do more climbing you'll also do more volume to get the same mileage.

I need more rest now than when I was 25. When I am training hard I take an easy week every two-three weeks.


----------



## ScooterDobs (Nov 26, 2010)

*My Double Century Training*

49 years old, basically 0 miles, 5 months until the STP. My training route was a 30 mile loop, about 10 miles on flay bike paths, the other 20 miles on long gentle hills. I feel those hills made as much difference in my training as anything. On each of the 3 climbs/descents I timed them with a 15 second improvement goal each time. Also, I would ride 60 miles on Sat., 60 on Sunday, then ride the loop on Wednesday so recovery time was built into the schedule. If I rode on any of the other days it was on the flat bike paths at a moderate pace, no speed records there. In all, 1800 miles over 5 months and the 204 miles over two days was nothing but fun, no issues at all. So, in summary, hills really help, recovery time is important, but longer distance rides are important too. 
One point on recovery - my shifter broke and I didn't ride for 6 days. When I rode again I rode 60 miles (the loop x2) and all of my times were better and my average speed on each loop improved by almost 1 mph. With that in mind, I didn't ride for 6 days prior to the event.


----------



## gforcepdx (Jul 23, 2012)

Thank you all for sharing. A lot of people posting to these sites are fairly young and don't relate so well to the limitations of age... yet. But I feel good at the progress I've managed to this point. However... I feel the easy advances are over. All of my previous jumps in distance were made a week to 10 days apart... From 20, 30, 40, 50, 60 miles All of these advances felt brutal, but doable. Now I get the feeling patience will become ever more important to a forward progression. Hearing your story's feels encouraging. 
@Scooter Dobs~Really good info. I've been looking for other peoples training routines. And the final point you make has been something that's actually been troubling me. Every time I've increased my distance another 10 miles I'm completely wiped me out from 3 days to a week. There's a part of me that's thinking if it takes a week to recover then somethings wrong. That or else I'm trying for too much. But that doesn't sound right either. I mean I'm not tearing my knees up, pulling ligaments or tearing muscle tissue.
@ericm979~ You too raise a very good point. I'm riding greater distances but it feels as though its taking me too long. I've recently began hearing people talking about cadence and have began to be more mindful of the speed my crank is revolving. Sometimes when I'm having a low energy day I finish my rides at a crawl... limping home. Normally this happens no more than a few miles out of 50 and I know that I'm not getting much from this time. What is it that I should work towards in relation to time and distance. Is 50 miles not really 50 miles if you go too slow?


----------



## ericm979 (Jun 26, 2005)

2.5 months and the easy advances are over? 
If you keep at it you'll improve markedly for the next two or three years.

50 miles with 8000' of climbing that takes you 5 hours is harder than 50 miles with 1000' of climbing that takes you three.

If you are dragging yourself home at the end of rides then your rides are too long for your current fitness (or you are not eating properly). If you're wiped out for a week then your long rides are too long or too hard for your current fitness.


----------



## gforcepdx (Jul 23, 2012)

I've managed to pick up 2 mph in as many months, and my present cruising speed is 16-17 mph over flat ground, so I feel I'm on target. I've read reports here of people moving from 17 to 22 mph in 5 months, but I have no idea how old the guy was that posted that. I'm feeling that's probably a little optimistic at my age. I like the idea of shifting terrain to pursue hill climbs instead of distance. The last time I rode seriously I spent most of my time on long steady grades, but their's a basic fitness necessary to get started.


----------



## ScooterDobs (Nov 26, 2010)

PDX, 
One other thought is a heart rate monitor. It is good feedback on your average level of exertion. It kept me from over doing or under doing my training rides. My max heart rate should be about 170 bpm. I tried to ride in the mid 140's. On hills it would hit 160 and going down hills about 135 bpm. If I saw a steady, flat ground rate at 150 or above I would throttle back a bit. If I was below 140 on flats I would step it up. I just bought a new monitor, Bowflex brand, at Big 5 on clearance for $40. Works great and the batteries are replaceable.


----------



## gforcepdx (Jul 23, 2012)

*Heart rate monitors?*



ScooterDobs said:


> PDX,
> One other thought is a heart rate monitor. It is good feedback on your average level of exertion. It kept me from over doing or under doing my training rides. My max heart rate should be about 170 bpm. I tried to ride in the mid 140's. On hills it would hit 160 and going down hills about 135 bpm. If I saw a steady, flat ground rate at 150 or above I would throttle back a bit. If I was below 140 on flats I would step it up. I just bought a new monitor, Bowflex brand, at Big 5 on clearance for $40. Works great and the batteries are replaceable.


Heart rate monitors? I like keeping things pretty simple and sticking to a workout seems more likely if I'm having a good time... and checking my heart rate sounds like a way to make things overly complex. I've never had heart trouble and I'm not really training for competition. How important is that sort of thing. I had a girlfriend that ran several times a week that used her's all the time, but when I asked her why, she never really had a good answer.


----------



## champamoore (Jul 30, 2012)

It is possible that data will help you
1) define your baseline fitness
2) set clear targets

I have found that hitting targets can really up both your fun and your performance at the same time. ;] I am not saying that target hitting is more important than enjoying the ride, though.

A good rule of thumb regarding distance for your weekly long (which should be a 5-6 on the exertion scale of 10) ride is to add 10% more distance each week, then you will adding to your base, rather than overextending. Getting at least two shorter rides in during the week, one easy recovery ride (3-4 on exertion scale) after your long one, and then one a bit tougher (7-8, perhaps with a few interval bursts thrown in to additionally up fitness) will help you in your base building, as well.

Ride tough, have fun, regardless! Good luck!


----------



## 67caddy (Nov 4, 2009)

*Yes, heart rate monitor*

Champ and Scooter are right. Your two most important guides right now are an HRM and limiting your mileage increases to 5-10% a week. 

A $50 HRM can do the trick for you, don't need anything super expensive. Read up on how to determine your anaerobic threshold. This will tell you which heart rate range for your long endurance days, your recovery days, and your shorter higher intensity days.

You are obviously wanting to increase your mileage and performance. The way to do it right and without injury is to train smart.

I'm same age as you. I started riding 30 years ago, I stopped competing years ago. But I picked up using an HRM again this winter. It keeps me honest and not overpushing myself on my 3-4 hours days. It also tells me when to back off if I'm really just beating myself up on higher intensity days. 

Get an HRM, read what you can online about heart rate zones, how to determine your anaerobic threshold and give it a whirl.


----------



## ScooterDobs (Nov 26, 2010)

The heart rate monitor doesn't complicate anything. I viewed it as my tachometer. My bike has a basic speedometer and the HRM is mounted next to it. A quick glance tells me speed and "engine rpm" After a while you can sense what you are capable of doing for sustained times. I don't download any data or use it in any after ride way, but as a guide to keep me honest. The guys I ride with are always teasing me when I slow up, saying sorry we we're over-reving your engine (I'm the slug in the group!). You get a sense of your own body this way. My tendency is to go balls out and then die. This controlled that tendency and really improved my training progress without going so far that it wasn't fun or where I was too sore to ride for days after. I didn't look at anaerobic thresholds, zones, or anything like that, just rode, watched the HRM, got to know my body and fitness level, and kept going. I can tell you that I am much faster at 145 pbm now than when I first got off the couch and started riding. I am also 15 pounds lighter!


----------



## 67caddy (Nov 4, 2009)

Scooter is doing it right. He is using his HRM to tell himself when his body is saying to back off. Otherwise, he would be beating his head against the walll and blowing up by pegging his heart rate (resulting in overtraining and extended muscle soreness). His experience that training within the proper zones results in not only improved fitness, but also reduceing his body weight should speak volumes to you.


----------



## gforcepdx (Jul 23, 2012)

If one of you have a couple of links I'd like to do some reading about this. Curious about things like~ Quote pegging his heart rate (resulting in overtraining and extended muscle soreness). Lots to learn. Thanks to all.


----------



## 67caddy (Nov 4, 2009)

This is probably a decent start to give you the basics.

CYCLING PERFORMANCE TIPS -

There are different ways to calculate your heart rate zones. Some base it off your max heart rate. Max is your absolute max you would hit on say a relatively long steep hill (4 or 5 minute effort) after you are completely warmed up on a ride (at least 30-60 minutes into ride).

Some base zones on your anaerobic threshold. Your anaerobic threshold is basicly your time trial heart rate. It is the max constant effort you can hold over a 30 minute period. For me (age 52), max is around 180 and my anaerobic threshold is around 160. At age 30 it was max 200, threshold 175.

I like to base my training using zones calculated using anaerobic threshold. I think that endurance training is better suited by using the zones based on anaerobic threshold. I basicly have three zones, long endurance (anything 2 hours or more), shoot for a steady effort in the 120-140 range. Higher intensity steady state of 60-120 minutes in 140-150 range. Shorter higher intensity of around 60 minute duration in the 150-160 range (this might involve very hilly portion or a one hour push into a steady hard headwind). If I do recovery ride, very easy effort, I try to stay in 100 - 120 range (sub zone 1).

Do some google searching on the web and read a few different methods. Some are very complex, with lots of zones, and overwhelming amounts of data. Some are less complex. Don't just take what I've written as what you need to do. I only put it as an example of what works for me. Others would say I'm totally full of BS and am wasting my time.


----------



## BostonG (Apr 13, 2010)

gforcepdx said:


> I've read reports here of people moving from 17 to 22 mph in 5 months, but I have no idea how old the guy was that posted that. I'm feeling that's probably a little optimistic at my age.


LOL, I've read lots of things posted by people on this and other sites. We're all tall, dark, and handsome on the Intrwebzzzz eh? I have 3 girlfriends who are all models and do nothing but serve my every desire, and when I’m bored with them their younger and more beautiful sisters are eager to step in. And my garages full of Ferrari's and my mansions and yachts are all being taken care of by my wonderful staff – who all work for free!!

To address your original post, if you keep doing long rides of 60+ miles on weekends (try to get to 75 a couple weeks before the century) with little trouble and then mix in a couple shorter but more intense work during the weekdays you’ll be fine for a century ride. This is especially so if you are doing that mileage alone and the century is with people. Just don’t push hard, make sure to eat, and hydrate on the ride. Your biggest issue then will be the psychological bonk that comes at around the 70 or so mile point rather than a physical one. Do low intensity rides for about 3 or 4 days before the century. 

And I agree that a HRM is a very good tool. Dollar for dollar, it is arguably the best training aid. 

Good luck.


----------



## champamoore (Jul 30, 2012)

When considering people's "average speed", also consider the fact that one frequently will ride more with groups as experience increases, and count the group's average speed as their own. when you are in a functional paceline, speed will go up significantly for the same amount of effort, when you throw in that people are likely to push each other to maintain a strong effort, that can add even more speed to the group's ("their") average. 

In any case, with dedication and diligence, you will def see noteworthy improvements to be proud of (both solo and in group rides), and realize that many boundaries are meant to be pushed through.


----------



## professionalsql (Apr 5, 2012)

I would keep it to one long ride a week, and try bumping that up by 5ish miles per week. Mix some hills in, but don't try and mix a ton of hills with a ton of distance early on. Mix in 2-3 rides midweek. Unlike the other poster, I do recommend doing a ride the day after your long ride, but make it relatively short (say, 20-25% of your long ride distance), and well below your long ride pace. Essentially, you're just stretching the muscles back out, but not "working" them. For hills, consider a hill specific workout during the week, but short distances - again, below what your long ride pace is at (you're strength building at that point - not endurance building).

Just my take (and I'm also in the ballpark of your age).


----------



## ScooterDobs (Nov 26, 2010)

PDX,
Regarding speed. My speed when I got my spam fed butt off the couch was 13 mph (solo ride, didn't want anyone to witness how out of shape I was!). I could do that for about 1 hr on flat ground. Rode 3-4 times per week. After 5 months of riding I would average about 15.5 mph over a 4 hour ride. That is the beauty of being out of shape, incredible growth. I am also an engineer so I tracked the data. When I didn't feel like riding I'd pull up the spreadsheet and see how far I'd come and didn't want to go back so I rode. My best solo speed over my 30 mile loop was 15.9 mph. When we did the STP we rode as a group and drafted. Day one, 114 miles, we averaged 15.9 mph. Day 2, 90 miles, we averaged 16.0 mph. I didn't become superman that weekend, that's just the result of drafting. I could tell you that I averaged 16 mph over 204 miles. It's true but leaves out one detail, I drafted the crap out of the stronger guys in my group!


----------



## JACD (Aug 19, 2012)

I'm 53 and road my longest ride of 43 miles today and I hurt. The good hurt after a good workout kind of hurt. Two days ago, I rode just over 25 miles for the second time. I kept a 15.7 and 16.4 respectively on the 25s, but today's 43 averaged 14.1 in 3:05. Oh, and I finished one nasty hill on foot... It was a pretty hilly ride and kinda rough at a couple points.

All that said, I want a century as well and the advice here has been great! Thanks for asking the question and thanks for all the comments that followed. I'm enjoying this site a great deal.

Redheads scare me as well.

John


----------



## CannondaleRushSynapse (Jun 1, 2012)

You don't have to have a heart problem to have a heart attack.


----------



## cycmike (May 12, 2011)

gforcepdx said:


> I'm 52 and been riding 2 1/2 months. My short term goal is to ride me first century soon, but my longest ride to date has been 60 miles last Sunday, with 50% of that over hilly terrain. I tried the same ride three days later on Wednesday and only managed 40 miles. Maybe I'm pushing for too much, too soon. It's seven days later now and I'm going to work on hill climbs instead of distance. There's a 14 mile ride with 3000' of gain I want to do. I've read that to train for distance you just need to put in the time, but I've also read that mixing things up is good, and that nothing builds muscle quite so quickly as hill climbs. The trouble I seem to have been having in the past, is that distance rides take so much recovery time. Two weeks ago I was doing daily rides of 31 miles. I did these for 2 weeks but stopped eventually because I realized needed the down time to regenerate. In the past, every gain of 10 more miles has meant that I'm pretty worthless for the week to follow.


I'm 56 and have been riding for about 2.5 years. I've done two centuries, the first back in April and then one last weekend, the HHH. I have paid lots of attention to proper training and have found that it is difficult to actually apply what one reads to what one does on the road. But I still try to apply as much as I can; after all, I'm an amateur. 

It takes a relatively long time to build a base level of fitness on a bicycle. I would say it would include time riding, time spinning in the gym and time reading and trying to apply what you learn. 

One of the most important guides I have is my HRM. After all I have done and read , when I am riding and wanting to know my effort level, I glance at my heart rate and I know where I am as far as how much I am putting out and how much I might have left. 

Having said all that, it still comes down to enjoying the ride. Personally, I seem to enjoy it more if I'm sweating buckets and my tongue is hanging out on mile 70 of 100. There is nothing to compare with that as I really feel alive (especially when I get to mile 80 and find my bud lying on a stretcher moaning and then I get to pull him the last 20 to the finish).

Uh, anyway, be patient with it. It'll come. And get a HRM of some sort.


----------



## ulu (Sep 19, 2012)

cycmike said:


> It takes a relatively long time to build a base level of fitness on a bicycle. I would say it would include time riding, time spinning in the gym and time reading and trying to apply what you learn.
> 
> .


I guess this is where I am now. I just started road cycling at 50, and I live in very hilly (no. county san diego) terrain. I started off doing 13 miles, and I am up to 19 per ride 3x a week. I am an avid runner, surfer and mountaineer, so my cardio and leg strength have always been great. When I do these rides, I am sometimes dead for 2-3 days.


----------

