# gatorskin vs GP40000s vs 4 Seasons



## Srode (Aug 19, 2012)

I'm running gatorskins, (not the hard case) and as my rear tire is getting closer to needing replaced, I've started thinking about switching to GP4000s for my riding for lower rolling resistance. I saw somewhere the difference between 4000s and 4 seasons in a test was about 20watts which is pretty big in my book, but couldn't find what conditions / speed that test was done, and I haven't seen a comparison between the gatorskins and either 4000s or 4 seasons tires. 

My bike has a pretty plush ride so the suppleness while nice isn't the reason. The gatorskins have been great for mileage and for flat protection with not a single flat over more than 4000 miles. 

If the lower rolling resistance was worth another half mph or more I might go for that to help me keep up a little easier on the group rides I do regularly. Our average speeds are around 18-19 for the entire ride over 60 miles on the weekend rides, and 35 miles during the week. The rides generally have between 1300 and 2300 feet of climbing with most of the flatter uninterrupted sections at low to mid 20s mph. Do you think I will see a noticeable difference in speed / effort to maintain speed with a switch to the GP400s or 4 seasons tires?


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## Dunbar (Aug 8, 2010)

I haven't used the 4 seasons but there's a big difference in rolling resistance between the GP4000s and Gatorskin. When I switched I noticed how much further the bike rolls with the GP4000s when you stop pedaling. It felt like the bike would roll forever in comparison to the Gatorskin. I don't know how much extra speed they'll give you (if any) but it's a great tire.


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## jct78 (Dec 12, 2011)

i was wondering the same thing.

i have 4000s right now and will put some new GP4 seasons for the winter roads. it's all good though. it'll make me work harder. stronger. faster.


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## c_h_i_n_a_m_a_n (Mar 3, 2012)

I think the 4 Seasons wear out quicker than the 4000s.

Unsure about the rolling resistance.


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## brucew (Jun 3, 2006)

I've owned all three.

The Gatorskins lasted the longest, but were also the harshest ride. And they were slippery when wet.

When I switched to the 4-Seasons on the very first ride I noticed how much nicer they rode, and as Dunbar reports, how much nicer and farther they seemed to roll. They're incredibly grippy in the wet too. But the tread compound gets cut up too easily and wear is inconsistent between sizes and batches.

I like the 4000S a lot. They ride and roll like the 4-Seasons, but the tread doesn't get cut up like them. Jury is still out on longevity and wet grip, but both seem to be falling in the very good to excellent range.


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## bigbill (Feb 15, 2005)

I use 4000's on my "fast" wheelsets, which are Zondas and Cosmic Carbones. They roll well and have good longevity. My standard wheels (3X32) have ultra Gatorskins which are great for durability and puncture resistance. I don't notice a tremendous difference in ride quality, probably because the Zondas and Carbones are stiff and the standard wheels are a little more forgiving.  

I had a set of 4 Seasons that I bought a few weeks before the Seattle to Portland in 2008. They were 25mm but really were comparable to a 23mm in other brands. They rolled well, I did a 10:14 ride (200 miles) so they perform. The only downside was that the rear tire only went around 1500 miles before it was to the casing. Never got a flat. 

I rode the same set of Ultra Gatorskins (23mm) during the five months I was stationed in Italy. I never got a flat, did a 60+mph descent, and ended up with near 4K miles on them. When I took them off, the rear tire rolled up into a ball, it was casing with a very thin layer of rubber. They wore better than any tire I had ever used. I started racing in the late 80's, I would race on Ultra Gatorskins.


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## Srode (Aug 19, 2012)

Well it sounds like everyone has positive experiences with the rolling on the GP 4000s and 4 Seasons tires - I guess that should translate to increased speed or less work / mile.

I have to agree, the gatorskins are slick when it's wet out.


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## SBard1985 (May 13, 2012)

I was wondering the same thing. I rolled with some GP 4000s and some regular GP with the black chili and liked them both. Def looking for a crummy weather tire since I can't fit much larger tires on my bike with my SRAM Red brakes. I am still undecided, maybe I'll just put some cross tires on the 10 speed for November and December.


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## tednugent (Apr 26, 2010)

The 4000s does have the Black Chili compound

The 4-season does not. It is a nice tire that sits in between the 4000s and gatorskin

If you want 25mm wide, can't get them in the 4000s


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## vagabondcyclist (Apr 2, 2011)

tednugent said:


> If you want 25mm wide, can't get them in the 4000s


Yes you can. Have a pair on my bike.


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## spdntrxi (Jul 25, 2013)

vagabondcyclist said:


> tednugent said:
> 
> 
> > If you want 25mm wide, can't get them in the 4000s[/QUOT
> ...


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## Jon D (Apr 11, 2011)

vagabondcyclist said:


> tednugent said:
> 
> 
> > If you want 25mm wide, can't get them in the 4000s[/QUOT
> ...


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## brucew (Jun 3, 2006)

tednugent said:


> If you want 25mm wide, can't get them in the 4000s


Yes, originally, they came in only 23mm. Two years ago, IIRC, they added the 25mm.

Starting next spring, the 4000S II will also come in 20mm, 28mm, and 23mm in 650b.


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## johnnydm (Mar 11, 2010)

I have not tried the 4000s. The Gatorskins last longer, have great puncture protection, not so good in the rain and have a harsher ride compared to 4 seasons. I prefer the 4 seasons due to better rolling resistance and traction.


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## josephr (Jun 17, 2010)

vagabondcyclist said:


> tednugent said:
> 
> 
> > If you want 25mm wide, can't get them in the 4000s[/QUOT
> ...


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## Vanquiz (May 12, 2013)

Hmm, just checked Probikekit, they're out of stock 25mm, I got mine from them last week free shipping to US.

Wiggle still has them, but for free shipping I think you have to spend a certain amount.


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## tihsepa (Nov 27, 2008)

josephr said:


> vagabondcyclist said:
> 
> 
> > yep...me too...they're back ordered everywhere though.
> ...


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## josephr (Jun 17, 2010)

4000s on sale at competitive cyclist for $50 for 700xx25c. good price from a retailer.

biketiresdirect.com says their due in Oct 3.

nashbar has 'em on sale for $63.


so..maybe, they're not on backorder everywhere....just got to look around. I tried to get a few months ago but couldn't find them then....and, it was middle of the season.

Haven't tried the 4000s, but the 4000 was a great tire, have run the 4 seasons and the gatorskins. 

I don't think you'd go wrong with any of them.
Joe


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## pushstart (Feb 5, 2012)

I will basically echo sentiments already expressed. I had used Gatorskins on my road bike for years, but they are indeed slippery when wet. After laying the bike down on a wet road recently, I decided to give the GP4000s a try instead. I love these tires. I am using them in 25mm size on wide rims for both my cx/commuter and road bike and the ride is fantastic. Wear seems good, though I do not expect this to be as good as the Gatorskins. Ride quality / rolling resistance also feels much better than the tubeless Hutchinson Fusions (and "25mm" Intensives) I was riding earlier this year.

I also had the 4 seasons a couple winters back. Rear tire was completely worn out by 2k miles. And one of my 4 seasons blew a sidewall out after 50 miles. So I wasn't overly impressed, but I may try them again this winter. Or I might just keep riding the 4000s (new model will come in 28mm at same weight as current 25mm too).


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## brucew (Jun 3, 2006)

TireManiacs.com has them at $44.65 with free shipping CONUS.

Ribble Cycles UK has them for $38.65 plus shipping.

I've dealt with both. No problems.


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## Dunbar (Aug 8, 2010)

I bought my last pair of 25's from this place, located in the good old USA ($80 shipped for 2 tires.) You should have them in 3 days max.

Continental Grand Prix 4000s 25c Road Bike Tires


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## genux (Jun 18, 2012)

Planet Cyclery has the GP4000S 700x25c 2-pack for $80. I'm fairly happy with the GP4000S, but switched to Armadillos during winter riding conditions when there was so much crap on the road.

This summer season, I got a bike that came with Vittoria's Rubino Pro Slick tires (700x23c) and am very pleased with them.


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## OldChipper (May 15, 2011)

Yep Gatorskins wear like iron. My wife ran them on her bike for a long time since she hates changing flats. While we don't ride much in the wet, I do recall her complaining more about traction in the rain during times when I felt fine with my GP4000s'. 

In general, I've been very pleased with the 4000s; I like the ride, cornering, have no issues with braking traction, and they're generally been adequately durable for my needs. Lately though I've been having terrible luck with them, ruining 3 tires in the last month or so due to side-wall and large, tread cuts. Could just be more junk on the road right now due to all the rain we've had, but am starting to wonder if they have a bad batch out there since I've run GPs all the way back to the '90s and never had problems like this. Or, badness just comes in waves.


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## ccoppola (Aug 26, 2013)

Looking to get some 4000s from Wiggle in UK, do you have to pay US duties or any additional fees if u purchase in US?

never purchased from overseas places.


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## brucew (Jun 3, 2006)

ccoppola said:


> do you have to pay US duties or any additional fees if u purchase in US?


Officially? Maybe. It depends on how you interpret the regulations. Someone here once linked to the regs to answer a similar question.

In actual practice? I've never been charged for anything I've purchased form the UK or Germany. I've made two or three purchases a year for the past four or five years--wear parts (including tires), accessories, clothing, components, even a frameset.


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## Blue CheeseHead (Jul 14, 2008)

ccoppola said:


> Looking to get some 4000s from Wiggle in UK, do you have to pay US duties or any additional fees if u purchase in US?
> 
> never purchased from overseas places.


If US customs properly classifies the tires, the answer is NO. Per the Hamonized Tariff Schedule rubber tires of the type used on a bicycle pay 0% tariff.

Occationally customs gets it wrong. In that case you must pay the fee and then appeal. You will get the tariff charge back, but not the post office processing charge.


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## pmf (Feb 23, 2004)

I've made multiple purchases from Ribble in UK and never been charged any duty or import fees. They hand it off the the USPS. Their shipping fees are suprisingly reasonable and they ship fast. I think some U.S. vendors take longer.


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## Srode (Aug 19, 2012)

Ordered a pair of GP4000S this morning, will report on any noticable speed difference when I get them on and get some riding in. I have a few Strava segments with results in low to no wind with power meter data for comparison.


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## pushstart (Feb 5, 2012)

Sabfjrina said:


> I prefer the 4 seasons due to better rolling resistance and traction.


I have only heard rr is slightly higher for 4 seasons than 4000s. Do you have reference for lower rr numbers?


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## Srode (Aug 19, 2012)

pushstart said:


> I have only heard rr is slightly higher for 4 seasons than 4000s. Do you have reference for lower rr numbers?


about 10 watts lost with 4 seasons compared to 4000s from the test I read if I remember correctly.


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## lostPixels (Jun 12, 2012)

I have Gatorskins and GP4000s and I honestly can't say I find them all that much different. The GP's do ride nice, but the gatorskins aren't bad either. I did have Conti Ultras which were awful (came with the bike, thin as paper) and after switching to these tires, I no longer get flats on a daily basis.


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## skitorski (Dec 4, 2012)

Regarding puncture flats, from puncture vine and glass, how big a downgrade are the 4seasons and 4000's from the gatorskins ? I only have experience with the Kendas that I took off my bike in a box, and the Forte Pro Lites I replaced them with. I lost over a full pound in the tire and tube switch, but I have 11 punctured tubes in about 1,800 miles. Looking to reduce the flats, but I really appreciate a light easy rolling tire. No racing or high speed stuff in the wet. Any recommendations ?

Thanks !!


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## 4slomo (Feb 11, 2008)

I like riding with my Gator Hardshell tires, but hesitate riding them in the rain. Does anyone have experience riding a 4000s or 4 Season on the front for greater turning traction, and the Hardshell on the rear?


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## KensBikes (Feb 6, 2005)

Not to hijack, but please just a little bit!

How do the current Michelin Pro4 models stack up to these tires?

Out of these Contis, I'd go for the GP4000S.


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## pmf (Feb 23, 2004)

I have the Conti 4000S one one bike and the Michelin Pro3 Race on another. They're both good tires. I'd expect the Pro4 Race will be similar ... supposedly better. The Contis run a little bigger than the Michelins. I like them both. If I found a deal on either one, I'd stock up. The Michelins come in colors if that makes a difference.


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## Srode (Aug 19, 2012)

Well, they are definitely stickier and noticeably smoother riding - confidence inspiring on in tight turns which is fun. Have yet to assess any rolling resistance difference, that's coming. So far I like them with about 100 miles on them. :thumbsup:


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## nhluhr (Sep 9, 2010)

Srode said:


> about 10 watts lost with 4 seasons compared to 4000s from the test I read if I remember correctly.


I think this might be the test you're thinking of: http://www.conti-online.com/www/dow...al/downloads/download/tourtest_gp4000s_en.pdf

It says something like 54watts for the GP4seasons and 34watts for the GP4000S. No mention of the gatorskins in this test but given their stiffer carcass, I'd assume they are even worse.


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## Srode (Aug 19, 2012)

nhluhr said:


> I think this might be the test you're thinking of: http://www.conti-online.com/www/dow...al/downloads/download/tourtest_gp4000s_en.pdf
> 
> It says something like 54watts for the GP4seasons and 34watts for the GP4000S. No mention of the gatorskins in this test but given their stiffer carcass, I'd assume they are even worse.


Yep, that's the test.


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## Dunbar (Aug 8, 2010)

FYI, Probikekit.com has the GP4000s on sale for $36/ea. right now. They have the Pro 4 Service Course for around $30/ea. You might be able to find a coupon code to bring that down a little more too.


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