# My Litespeed Archon C3



## Crash4

Sharing my entry into the Lite!


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## adjtogo

That is one awesome looking bike!!!

Did you buy it at your LBS or online?

What group set do you have?

What is your review on the ride?

How much does it weigh?

Did you modify anything on it?


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## Crash4

@adjtogo, thanky you!

Did you buy it at your LBS or online?
- Bought it from our LBS early this year..

What group set do you have?
- It came as a built bike, with full ultegra except the cranks which is an FSA gossamer BB30. Now changed to SRAM red and FSA Kforce cranks. 

What is your review on the ride?
- So far, I have riden over 120 miles, and the ride is awsome. It is very Aero, and you feel it in the descents. Ride quality and stiffness is very good. It also climbs very well for an aero bike. The bike begs to be ridden fast.

How much does it weigh?
- Current set-up with the Red and FSA kforce crank is at 16lbs flat. 

Did you modify anything on it?
- Practically, I upgraded the groupset, saddle/bar tape and wheelset.. And transferred the removed parts to my other bike.


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## lambdamaster

some shitty pictures of mine:

























This frame was not meant to have sram on it. All kinds of issues. 16lbs even, without my race wheels.


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## adjtogo

I visited a few different bike shops recently and neither of them liked SRAM stuff. Both were fans of Shimano products. Both stated Campy is expensive, but over-rated because they can be rebuilt. Problem is, neither carry Campy in stock and have to be special ordered. Both said you get more bang for your buck with Shimano. Even the 105's are rated highly.

You guys have some very sharp looking bikes!!


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## lambdamaster

adjtogo said:


> I visited a few different bike shops recently and neither of them liked SRAM stuff. Both were fans of Shimano products. Both stated Campy is expensive, but over-rated because they can be rebuilt. Problem is, neither carry Campy in stock and have to be special ordered. Both said you get more bang for your buck with Shimano. Even the 105's are rated highly.
> 
> You guys have some very sharp looking bikes!!


After making the leap to SRAM, I'll never go back to shitmano. Ride both and decide for yourself.


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## PoorCyclist

lambdamaster said:


> This frame was not meant to have sram on it. All kinds of issues. 16lbs even, without my race wheels.


What do you mean this frame cannot have SRAM, what are the issues?

I plan to put SRAM red crankset on mine.


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## adjtogo

I'm only telling you what both LBS told me. The way I look at it, a lot of TDF riders use SRAM, so it must be good. Why they don't like it, I can't say.


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## lambdamaster

PoorCyclist said:


> What do you mean this frame cannot have SRAM, what are the issues?
> 
> I plan to put SRAM red crankset on mine.


SRAM cranks are fine. The front derailleur won't work, and the rear derailleur will need to be spaced out (away from the cassette) or have the parallelogram body modified in order to work. 
The front der. cable is angled in such a way that it will rub against the front derailleur body (the spring area on the back) ... I don't understand the lack of foresight on litespeed's part for this issue.  All sram FDs have similar dimensions, so this frame absolutely won't work with any sram FD without modification. I am using the stock ultegra FD. 
My sram rival RD will not shift into the small cog when installed normally. There is an issue with how the limit screws are designed, such that the lower limit screw, if set deep enough to prevent the cage from going into the spokes, will also prevent it from moving into the small cog. The fundamental issue though, is that litespeed's derailleur placement is too far inboard on the frame. The solution is either to space the RD outwards by 2-3mm with a washer/ custom der. hanger, or grind down the chunk of metal that the lower limit screw bottoms out against when shifting to the small cog.


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## pmf

adjtogo said:


> I'm only telling you what both LBS told me. The way I look at it, a lot of TDF riders use SRAM, so it must be good. Why they don't like it, I can't say.


No. Pro racers ride the bikes and components they get paid to ride. Whoever forks out the most money will be the sponser. Aside from saddles and shoes, the vast majority of the pros ride what they're given. High end Campy, Shimano and Sram are all perfectly good groups.


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## Crash4

Here she is now with some changes.


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## Flewbags

Considered one of these - Great value at the moment in the UK. But concerned about the Seat stem (mast?) 
Is it a matter of cut it too short and you wave goodbye to your frame?
If not, How is it for adjustment once you've cut it - I tend to alter my seat height sometimes (different cleats / riding styles / If I wear an extra layer of shorts!! etc) 

Also, what's it like on a long ride, The reviews I've read praise its stiffness and power transfer but it looks like a bike for short fast work / races etc - How would it be on a century? - Sometimes stiff means uncomfortable


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## cehowardraleighGS

Crash4 said:


> Here she is now with some changes.


*Just want to say that your choice of bartape, saddle and wheels are RIGHT ON THE MONEY.* :thumbsup: 

*IMO, don't have to even get to the ride this beauty, the bike is pure EYE-CANDY TO THE 100th DEGREE**!! * :thumbsup:


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## eurotruck

*Litespeed Aero Seat Post kit*



Flewbags said:


> Considered one of these - Great value at the moment in the UK. But concerned about the Seat stem (mast?)
> Is it a matter of cut it too short and you wave goodbye to your frame?


Litespeed provides shims with the frameset for minor adjustment of saddle height, or you can retrofit a seat post from Litespeed to make the bike easier to transport in a case, etc.

Litespeed Seat Post Kit

I've been riding the Archon C2 since the end of November and to me it is more comfortable than my Litespeed Ti frame. The frame design does a great job of being stiff in the BB when hammering, while at the same time canceling out road chatter and keeping your bum happy.

The C2 frameset is a steal at Realcyclist.com at the moment. I've even thought of buying a spare for when / if I crash and it asplodes [sic].  

No affiliation to the above mentioned retailer.....simply spreading the word about a good deal.


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## lambdamaster

Has anyone noticed frame flex in the rear while sprinting/climbing? 

I'm a featherweight at about 120lbs and max out at around 1350w, but I manage to flex my rear wheel into the pads during efforts on both my wheels. Easton EC90 SL tub and Rolf Vigor SL. These aren't flexy wheels and there's plenty of pad clearance. Additionally, It seems to flex much more to one side than the other which could theoretically be caused by the asymmetrical stays. I did not notice this issue on any of my old frames (specialized roubaix, specialized tarmac, cannondale six). All these factors leads me to believe that it is more an issue of frame flex than wheel flex. Thoughts?


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## Boosted333

How are you guys liking your C3's ?? I am very close to pulling the trigger on a 2010 Archon C3, or a Specialized Tarmac... not sure which route, mainly because i've been a Specialized guy for years and I honestly haven't heard much about Litespeed.


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## lambdamaster

I regret buying mine. I could have gotten something better for the same amount of money.

I had a Tarmac and a Roubaix. Both were much more well made than the C3, and with fewer issues.


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## Dajianshan

What kind of issues? It is rare to hear someone on these forums ever regret an expensive bike purchase, as we tend to want to defend our choices, so I would be interested if you culd detail your criticism.


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## Boosted333

Yes, please explain... as I have just ordered a 2010 leftover C3 the other day. If the issues you mentioned above (about swapping to SRAM) then I am okay with that, as I have no plans (yet) of swapping drive train parts.


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## PoorCyclist

I have read all the reviews on this bike and not found a bad one, the only complains are that wheelbase is short which seems to make it a little twitchy for climbing, and carbon weave finish isn't great. I do agree some of the fit and finish details could be better. e,g, like the drop outs are kind of rough. I noticed Lamda changed every single component on the bike so he must not liked it alot.. could his flexing issue be a combination of very light components? The skewers could be not giving enough clamping force? 

I was able to bounce my butt up and down on the saddle, and the stock wheels compress a little bit, but never rub the brake pads, changing to a better wheelset solved the problem. The rear stays I think are thinner to provide a compromise between a comfortable ride and stiffness.

Check the headtube dimensions before you buy -- it has a short top tube for a more aggressive position.


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## Roadone

I looked at a 2011 C3 today for $2240 thinking about picking it up.


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## sdkwan

Roadone said:


> I looked at a 2011 C3 today for $2240 thinking about picking it up.


Thats an awesome deal for a 2011 C3. I just pulled the trigger on a 2011 C3 w/ Sram Force groupo and Mavic Cosmic Carbone SL. I can't wait until it arrives.


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## rice rocket

PoorCyclist said:


> I have read all the reviews on this bike and not found a bad one, the only complains are that wheelbase is short which seems to make it a little twitchy for climbing, and carbon weave finish isn't great. I do agree some of the fit and finish details could be better. e,g, like the drop outs are kind of rough. I noticed Lamda changed every single component on the bike so he must not liked it alot.. could his flexing issue be a combination of very light components? The skewers could be not giving enough clamping force?
> 
> I was able to bounce my butt up and down on the saddle, and the stock wheels compress a little bit, but never rub the brake pads, changing to a better wheelset solved the problem. The rear stays I think are thinner to provide a compromise between a comfortable ride and stiffness.
> 
> Check the headtube dimensions before you buy -- it has a short top tube for a more aggressive position.


The headtube isn't as short as you think because it doesn't include the tall dust cap/conical spacer.


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## Roadone

sdkwan said:


> Thats an awesome deal for a 2011 C3. I just pulled the trigger on a 2011 C3 w/ Sram Force groupo and Mavic Cosmic Carbone SL. I can't wait until it arrives.


Yeah...But it ended up being to small for me. They had a large which is 57cm and I needed a 60 or 61cm. The deal was for on hand stock only.


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## senecacyclist

Hi. Nothing to do with conversation, but Im looking for a vintage Litespeed headbadge. Anyone know where I can get one?


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## DrD

senecacyclist said:


> Hi. Nothing to do with conversation, but Im looking for a vintage Litespeed headbadge. Anyone know where I can get one?


 eBay - they show up now and then.


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## sdkwan

Well, I pulled the trigger and got my C3.


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## rice rocket

Why the ISP conversion to sliding post on a brand new bike?


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## senecacyclist

*headbadge*



DrD said:


> eBay - they show up now and then.


Got one on ebay, $60! wishI had a stack of these to sell!


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## DrD

rice rocket said:


> Why the ISP conversion to sliding post on a brand new bike?


pretty sure it's not a conversion - the only frame with an integrated seatpost is the C1R - even the C1 is a sliding post.


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## lambdamaster

Update:

Resolved the issue with the flex in the rear end. Still having issues with the derailleur spacing but it works. Replacement hangers are unbelievably expensive.

























Litespeed C3


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## PoorCyclist

lambdamaster said:


> Update:
> 
> Resolved the issue with the flex in the rear end. Still having issues with the derailleur spacing but it works. Replacement hangers are unbelievably expensive.


Could you share how you resolved the flex issue?


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## lambdamaster

PoorCyclist said:


> Could you share how you resolved the flex issue?


Certainly. I think it actually come down to an issue with the wheels I was using. I switched from Rolf Vigors and Easton EC90s to Reynolds DV3K and DV46UL, and I haven't noticed rear brake rub since. I thought it would be unlikely that it was a wheel issue, but apparently it was so. Still though, A lot of other people use EC90s and don't have issues with flex like I did... who knows.


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## PoorCyclist

Regarding the hanger, I used to see on realcyclist or department of goods discounted below $30
I also asked Litespeed/ABG sales rep and I remember the quote to be $20-$25.

But you can straighten these hangers unless something is very bent, they are thin and the mechanic said the flexy hanger is similar to Cervelo and the shifting precision is affected. But there isn't an upgraded hanger from wheels mfg like they make one fore Cervelos


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## lambdamaster

PoorCyclist said:


> Regarding the hanger, I used to see on realcyclist or department of goods discounted below $30
> I also asked Litespeed/ABG sales rep and I remember the quote to be $20-$25.
> 
> But you can straighten these hangers unless something is very bent, they are thin and the mechanic said the flexy hanger is similar to Cervelo and the shifting precision is affected. But there isn't an upgraded hanger from wheels mfg like they make one fore Cervelos


Is that for the steel version or the titanium one? I'd rather not pay more than $10 for a piece of stamped steel... I'd gladly buy a new Ti one for $30 though.


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## PoorCyclist

lambdamaster said:


> Is that for the steel version or the titanium one? I'd rather not pay more than $10 for a piece of stamped steel... I'd gladly buy a new Ti one for $30 though.


It was $20 for steel and $40 for Ti

Call Todd @ ABG 800.229.0198 ext. 221

For reference LBS charges $20 to deploy the alignment tool.


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## adjtogo

After looking back on this thread, I found I made some posts back in December, 2010. I remember this bike was on sale last year and was going to buy it then, but I had just bought a Bianchi Infinito a few months prior. How things have changed over a year!!! The Infinito ended up with a cracked rear seatstay, so I was without a bike. I received an email about a week ago from Road Bikes, Frames, Completes, Bicycle Parts and Bike Accessories from RealCyclist.com with a list of bikes on sale. They had the 2011 Litespeed Archon C1 with SRAM Force on sale for $1900, with a regular price of $4299. I bought it!! Just waiting for it to arrive. It does have an adjustable seat post. Can't wait to get it and ride it!!

If anyone else is thinking of buying a Litespeed Archon C1, they have one on sale for $1600 with full Ultegra. They are out of the SRAM Force equipped bikes. There were 55 of them last night. When I retrieved their link a minute ago, there are 50 left.

Litespeed Archon C3 - Ultegra Build from Realcyclist.com


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## lambdamaster

PoorCyclist said:


> It was $20 for steel and $40 for Ti
> 
> Call Todd @ ABG 800.229.0198 ext. 221
> 
> For reference LBS charges $20 to deploy the alignment tool.


Thanks for the tip. :thumbsup:
Do these prices include shipping?


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## rice rocket

Tell us more about how you did the new colors!


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## lambdamaster

rice rocket said:


> Tell us more about how you did the new colors!


Many tedious hours with paint pens. :blush2:


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## jne3

These are some beautiful bikes!! I am thinking about getting a C2 frameset to go with a Sram Red group that I already have. After reading lambdamaster's comments about the deraillers, I'm a bit concerned though. Does anyone have any experience with the C2 with Sram? Any other feedback on the C2 would also be helpful.


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## lambdamaster

jne3 said:


> These are some beautiful bikes!! I am thinking about getting a C2 frameset to go with a Sram Red group that I already have. After reading lambdamaster's comments about the deraillers, I'm a bit concerned though. Does anyone have any experience with the C2 with Sram? Any other feedback on the C2 would also be helpful.


I am a bit puzzled as to why my frame has these issues but there are C-series Archons shipping with full Sram. Maybe I ended up with a wonky pre-production frame? 

In any case, I would go for it and hope for the best. Even if it doesn't work, it will work.


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## jne3

I have seen some C-series with Sram, so I figured surely I can make it work. In any case, I pulled the trigger. It actually arrived yesterday and I gotta say, that is one good looking frame. That was the last piece of the puzzle so I will hopefully start building right after the holidays. I'll post pics when I get there.


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## lambdamaster

PoorCyclist said:


> It was $20 for steel and $40 for Ti
> 
> Call Todd @ ABG 800.229.0198 ext. 221
> 
> For reference LBS charges $20 to deploy the alignment tool.


Gave them a call... the extension didn't work but I got to someone who told me $40 for a steel hanger. Is it just me or is that a ridiculous amount? Is there something special about these hangers, or is ABG just taking advantage of their monopoly on them?


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## PoorCyclist

lambdamaster said:


> Gave them a call... the extension didn't work but I got to someone who told me $40 for a steel hanger. Is it just me or is that a ridiculous amount? Is there something special about these hangers, or is ABG just taking advantage of their monopoly on them?


I guess the person is not there anymore. The hanger does seem to be proprietery as in, there is no 3rd party making the compatible part.
You can also get them at competitive cyclist for $40/$65 Ti

What is wrong with your hanger? Couldn't you have it straightened?


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## r_mutt

Lamb- odd that you would blame the flex of the wheel into the pads on the frame. Just about everytime that's happened, it's almost always the wheels. What exactly your derailleur problem?


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## lambdamaster

PoorCyclist said:


> I guess the person is not there anymore. The hanger does seem to be proprietery as in, there is no 3rd party making the compatible part.
> You can also get them at competitive cyclist for $40/$65 Ti
> 
> What is wrong with your hanger? Couldn't you have it straightened?


It's bent into a weird S-shape from previous straightening efforts.



r_mutt said:


> Lamb- odd that you would blame the flex of the wheel into the pads on the frame. Just about everytime that's happened, it's almost always the wheels. What exactly your derailleur problem?


Well, I didn't have rubbing issues with the same wheels on a different frame. That's what led me to that conclusion. I described the derailleur problems above. 


On another note...


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## r_mutt

the stop broke off?


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## lambdamaster

Nope, converting to internal routing.


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## PoorCyclist

I noticed a little quirk when running SRAM,

The way SRAM FD is laid out results in the cable resting on the FD spring coil in the relaxed (inner ring) position, it shifts more or less fine, just that your cable touches a metal object and it is not that optimal, since you cannot have the cable completely relax that way.

On a Shimano derailleur this doesn't happen as the spring coil is further forward.


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## jne3

lambdamaster said:


> Nope, converting to internal routing.


Can you share more on your internal routing project?


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## lambdamaster

jne3 said:


> Can you share more on your internal routing project?


Sure, I'll post some more stuff when I make some more progress. Waiting on some powercordz and jagwire nokon liner. Too much friction with the full length stuff right now.


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## lambdamaster

Here's some shots of the FD routing:


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## jne3

Sorry this is off topic, but can somebody tell me what size recessed brake nut I should use for mounting the front brake on a C-series?


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## Rashadabd

Just picked the last small C3 frame up from realcyclist. I keep hearing conflicting things about weight. How much does this thing weigh (2011) in your opinion/experience? Any other advice you have to offer is appreciated. Thanks!


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## PoorCyclist

Rashadabd said:


> Just picked the last small C3 frame up from realcyclist. I keep hearing conflicting things about weight. How much does this thing weigh (2011) in your opinion/experience? Any other advice you have to offer is appreciated. Thanks!


I am guessing about 4.5-5lbs.. with seatpost/clamp/headset bearings, fork..
it's not a light bike, but don't worry about it.


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## Rashadabd

*C3 weight*

Thanks, I am mostly riding for fitness and gun so it's not a big deal, but I am planning to do a pretty tough gran fondo in the fall that has some steep climbs and I am wondering whether I can get this bike down to the 16.5 lb- 17 lb range. Either way it will be fast and fun.


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## lambdamaster

PoorCyclist said:


> I am guessing about 4.5-5lbs.. with seatpost/clamp/headset bearings, fork..
> it's not a light bike, but don't worry about it.


I would guess around 2200g total. The fork is fairly light for what it is, but the frame itself is heavy and the horrible FSA seat clamp is about 65lbs (~200g). Also white paint typically adds ~100g.


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## Jammerjam

American Bicycle Group bought Litespeed and now they won't honor "lifetime" warranties on their older bikes anymore. It's a bad rep for a bike with a great reputation.


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## voodoo01

Simple yet elegant.


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