# Is Zabel next?



## dagger (Jul 22, 2004)

Zabel didn't start this morning after the Christian Henn's confession regarding Telekoms doping. Zabel was his teammate and roomate during the time period.


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## terzo rene (Mar 23, 2002)

Zabel was also mentioned in a rather cryptic comment about coordinating his confession with Zabel. I thought the timing of his sudden withdrawal was very suspicious too.


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## JSR (Feb 27, 2006)

Oh crap......


Say it ain't so!


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## Dan Gerous (Mar 28, 2005)

At this point, I don't think any rider could come out as having doped and surprise me... Sad but true.


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## DMFT (Feb 3, 2005)

Dan Gerous said:


> At this point, I don't think any rider could come out as having doped and surprise me... Sad but true.



+ 1


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## mohair_chair (Oct 3, 2002)

Didn't Zabel or someone else recently say he tried EPO but didn't like it and didn't use it? It was a strange comment.


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## Dwayne Barry (Feb 16, 2003)

Dan Gerous said:


> At this point, I don't think any rider could come out as having doped and surprise me... Sad but true.


IOW, they all dope. Well everybody except Armstrong of course  He only liked to defend the omerta by pissing on riders who confessed or spoke out against the doping and the upteen indications he was involved we can continue to safely disregard because he never failed a drug test (except that one).


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## DMFT (Feb 3, 2005)

Boy you have a hard-on don't ya DB.

- How about Aldag, and now Udo Bolts...... That Omerta [email protected] is starting to come apart!


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## Dan Gerous (Mar 28, 2005)

mohair_chair said:


> Didn't Zabel or someone else recently say he tried EPO but didn't like it and didn't use it? It was a strange comment.


Zabel 'supposedly' tried it and didn't like it or didn't think it helped him but he didn't say it publicly, I don't remember who said that.


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## CrashDang (Nov 25, 2005)

The former Telekom soigneur Jeff D'Hondt revealed that Zabel tried it and didn't like it.


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## Guest (May 24, 2007)

DMFT said:


> That Omerta [email protected] is starting to come apart!



Yeah, but most aren't naming many other names (riders, docs, etc) for various reason. I don't think we'll hear much about the "real" distributers, since most off the illegal PED dealers also deal 'hard core' drugs and hence are likely to be really bad fellows.


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## bonkmiester (Sep 23, 2005)

Dwayne Barry said:


> IOW, they all dope. Well everybody except Armstrong of course  He only liked to defend the omerta by pissing on riders who confessed or spoke out against the doping and the upteen indications he was involved we can continue to safely disregard because he never failed a drug test *(except that one)*.




_*...you mean the one performed by the incredibly accurate & precise LNDD...???*_

...the Lab wiht the amazingly perfect procedures and fantastic records [Verminj. got them all, no?]...

...the Lab with the state of the art software and methodology...???...

...the Lab with "LeTechChix" that seem to think they know more than Davis...???

...if your gonna claim LA doped [and I don't care if you do]...let's not use LNDD as proof...


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## rocco (Apr 30, 2005)

mohair_chair said:


> Didn't Zabel or someone else recently say he tried EPO but didn't like it and didn't use it? It was a strange comment.



+2... or 3... That was about Zabel.


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## gizzard (Oct 5, 2005)

Q: Is Zabel next? 
A: Hell yeah.


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## zero85ZEN (Oct 11, 2002)

*Latest Cycling News for May 24, 2007*

Edited by Gregor Brown

Zabel and Aldag confess EPO usage
By Susan Westemeyer in Bonn

A tearful Erik Zabel appeared at the T-Mobile press conference Thursday along with former teammate Rolf Aldag to confess to EPO usage while riding for the Team Telekom in the 1990s. Current T-Mobile Team Manager Bob Stapleton praised the two for coming forward, saying that Aldag would continue to work for the team, and promised "further significant changes in our program this year and next year." (Read Cyclingnews' earlier article on the scheduled press conference.)

Zabel was a surprise guest at the press conference in Bonn, Germany. Visibly moved and fighting back tears -- sometimes unsuccessfully -- he admitted to having used EPO during the first week of the Tour de France 1996. The side-effects were so great, however, that he stopped with it. He admitted that he did not know how his current team Milram would accept his confession, and it not clear what is his present status with the team.

He was unable to control his voice or hold back his tears when he spoke of his son Rick. "My son rides, too, and I don't want him to go through what I went through," said the four-time winner of Milano-Sanremo.

"It doesn't make any difference whether it happened one time or over two years, the point is that it was forbidden to dope, and I doped. I doped, I lied and I apologize for that."

Aldag confessed to a longer history of doping. He started with EPO before the 1995 Tour de France, and he said that continued with it. In 1997, he hit a hematocrit of 50 percent, and started wondering whether it was worth it. His highest blood value was 53 percent. Finally in 1999, at the age of 30, he decided to stop using the products.

Stapleton said that a major reason he decided to keep Aldag on was the team. "I have spoken to our athletes, asked how they feel about things and about the team management. Many of them said that Rolf Aldag was the reason they are here. That is very important. They resoundingly said that he should stay and that he has their full and complete support."


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## Coolhand (Jul 28, 2002)

*Zabel and Aldag admit doping, T-mobile keeps Aldag anyway*

Some much for the "new" T-mobile.  




> Zabel's former Telekom colleague and the current manager of the T-Mobile team which succeeded Telekom, Rolf Aldag, confessed at the same press conference that he had taken doping products between 1995 and 2002.
> 
> Aldag admitted he had lied in the past when he had denied doping.
> 
> ...


Yeah a seven year doper- he's the guy you need. 

Start the clock on Riis and his "miracle" cures at CSC- they are coming for you next Mr 60%.


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## steelman (May 6, 2007)

Both Aldag and Zabel mentioned, that there has been not much change from the to now regarding the controls.
Stapleton also said in this conference, that it is not fair with everyone blaming only Basso and Ullrich when "100 riders" were also involved with Fuentes.
So when a lot of Telekom riders doped in this part of the Nineties, there can be made several conclusions:
In the other teams there was a high percentage, too.
In the years after up until now this was continued.
And it really doesnt matter what L.A. or F.L. or B.R. or anyone else will say.

Hopefully, the "TROLLS" (to quote one of the prime a*******) will gain a majority and seriously start kicking backsides.


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## bigpinkt (Jul 20, 2006)

http://www.zdf.de/ZDFmediathek/inhalt/6/0,4070,5540774-6-wm_dsl,00.html

Here is the press conference. Zabel is pretty emotional,


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## Einstruzende (Jun 1, 2004)

I have no problem with Aldag staying with TMobile. He's not riding and if he is sincere, he can help change the culture within the team. I also believe Zabel only used it a little bit.

I suspect anyone that won major races will still deny though. Wouldn't want an asterisk or to have your title pulled retroactively.


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## MikeBiker (Mar 9, 2003)

Zabel didn't inhale.


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## mohair_chair (Oct 3, 2002)

If you start firing people now for what they did 10 years ago, no one is going to come forward voluntarily. If you want this out in the open, you need to create a supportive environment.


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## Beethoven (Jul 28, 2005)

Rijs has scheduled a press conference for tomorrow. Wheels are coming off...


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## Pablo (Jul 7, 2004)

Yup.

http://www.cyclingnews.com/news.php?id=news/2007/may07/may24news2

http://www.velonews.com/news/fea/12310.0.html


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## dwwheels (Feb 28, 2007)

This thread shows how ridiculous the Tour officials are about FL disgracing the Yellow Jersey. If FL was indeed doping to win the tour he sure as hell wasn't the 1st over the last 17 years. He is just the 1st that they have been able to get their teeth into. As the merry-go-round starts to gain momentum there will be several more disgraces to come.


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## MikeBiker (Mar 9, 2003)

Does Zabel have to give back all those green jerseys?


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## chuckice (Aug 25, 2004)

argh.


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## Einstruzende (Jun 1, 2004)

MikeBiker said:


> Does Zabel have to give back all those green jerseys?


With all of these "revelations", it's easy to see he was competing in an even field.

Jacques Anquetil admitted to using amphetamines and he still has his 5 Tour wins...


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## dagger (Jul 22, 2004)

Somebody needs to declare an amnesty for all confessions to allow all this crap to get cleared up.


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## nrspeed (Jan 28, 2005)

"I took EPO in 1996 but I stopped taking it after a week because of secondary effects," 

I guess the secondary effects he didn't like were WINNING TWO STAGES by cheating!

Stage 3, Wasquehal - Nogent-sur-Oise, 195km
1. Erik Zabel (Ger) Telekom 5.29.21 
2. Mario Cipollini (Ita) Saeco 


Stage 10, Turin - Gap, 208.5km
1. Erik Zabel (Ger) Telekom 5.08.10 
2. Djamolidine Abdujaparov (Uzb) Refin


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## jtompilot (Mar 31, 2002)

dagger said:


> Somebody needs to declare an amnesty for all confessions to allow all this crap to get cleared up.


I agree with that!!!


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## mohair_chair (Oct 3, 2002)

Your point is valid, but does EPO work that fast? I thought it took a week or two to kick in. Weren't they injecting EPO in the first week of the Tour so it would kick in for the third week?


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## dagger (Jul 22, 2004)

*4 weeks*



mohair_chair said:


> Your point is valid, but does EPO work that fast? I thought it took a week or two to kick in. Weren't they injecting EPO in the first week of the Tour so it would kick in for the third week?


Doesn't it takes 4-6 weeks to generate new cells.


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## den bakker (Nov 13, 2004)

nrspeed said:


> "I took EPO in 1996 but I stopped taking it after a week because of secondary effects,"
> 
> I guess the secondary effects he didn't like were WINNING TWO STAGES by cheating!
> 
> ...


Somehow I don't think you will hear any complaints from Abdou....


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## dwwheels (Feb 28, 2007)

I find it hard to believe that he or anyone only used for 1 week. Nobody is going to put themselves into a situation (career/life ending, public shame as a cheater) to just see what all of the fuss is about.


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## CrashDang (Nov 25, 2005)

*So Zabel Cheated Clean Riders?*



nrspeed said:


> "I took EPO in 1996 but I stopped taking it after a week because of secondary effects,"
> 
> I guess the secondary effects he didn't like were WINNING TWO STAGES by cheating!


Okay. We now know that he won those stages (and prob many other stages) by cheating. But are you implying that Super Mario and Abdujaparov weren't cheating also to finish in 2nd?

The only rider who didn't or hasn't cheated IMO is :idea: ... umm... lalala... :mad2: ... yeah, him.


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## MellowDramatic (Jun 8, 2006)

I have a tendency to believe that he tried it and didn't like it. If he were a climber, I'd feel differently, but for someone who has to hang on for 4 hours and then put in one hard effort, I can believe it.


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## Coot72 (Nov 11, 2002)

I agree Amnesty is the way forward. Also there needs to be some way to make system for controls that is fair to riders as well as be a deterrent that everyone can trust. 

Another idea is to create work conditions and a salary schedule/incentives for riders so that they don't feel like cheating brings such vastly greater rewards. There will always be some cheaters, but one needs to make a situation where the culture and environment doesn't provide such large incentives and rewards for cheating.

If a rider is well paid, has nice work conditions, then the average, morally decent rider will find that negative side of cheating isn't worth the financial gains it brings.


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## Hairnet (Dec 17, 2006)

bonkmiester said:


> _*...you mean the one performed by the incredibly accurate & precise LNDD...???*_
> 
> ...the Lab wiht the amazingly perfect procedures and fantastic records [Verminj. got them all, no?]...
> 
> ...



*You are fogetting about his postive test for cortisone*. He did not have a medical exemption in his file prior to testing postive. He got off on a dubious technicality.:thumbsup: 

http://www.arpuerta.com/040917.html


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## Hairnet (Dec 17, 2006)

Coolhand said:


> Some much for the "new" T-mobile.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I'd much rather have someone at the helm who has openly and honestly repented and was part of the system. 

Armstongs code of silence and punishing those who speak out, and your idea of punishing those who come forward won't solve the problem.


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## Hairnet (Dec 17, 2006)

den bakker said:


> Somehow I don't think you will hear any complaints from Abdou....


Djamolidine Abdujaparov, the worlds most dangerous sprinter. Not even the barriers were safe!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oBtCaLYFKjo


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## Coolhand (Jul 28, 2002)

Hairnet said:


> I'd much rather have someone at the helm who has openly and honestly repented and was part of the system.
> 
> Armstongs code of silence and punishing those who speak out, and your idea of punishing those who come forward won't solve the problem.


_Honest and open_- he didn't admit to it until he had no other choice. He doped the majority of his career, and was part of a team wide systematic doping program. He has years to admit to it, and didn't until it was at his very doorstep.

He deserves nothing but scorn. You are punishing those who cheat and get caught- like he did (and Armstrong didn't). He is no different then Basso, Ullrich, or any of the Festina riders. None. Cheating is cheating, and there has to be repercussions. The first is no employment on a Protour Team. If a certain Belgian classics rider with a love for wasps and stingers can't work with a Protour team, why should Aldag?


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## mohair_chair (Oct 3, 2002)

He definitely deserves scorn. But what you want is not reasonable. You want riders to freely to admit to doping, then you want to prevent them from being employed? That sounds like a pretty good reason to keep quiet to me. Here we are, in a perfect moment in time where a carrot should be offered, and all you want to give is a stick.


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## SilasCL (Jun 14, 2004)

mohair_chair said:


> He definitely deserves scorn. But what you want is not reasonable. You want riders to freely to admit to doping, then you want to prevent them from being employed? That sounds like a pretty good reason to keep quiet to me. Here we are, in a perfect moment in time where a carrot should be offered, and all you want to give is a stick.


Indeed. I think what coolhand wants is the illusion that everyone is clean. Why, if no one is confessing and very few are getting caught, then that means everything is A-Okay!


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## ttug (May 14, 2004)

*Coolhand is the man!*



Coolhand said:


> _Honest and open_- he didn't admit to it until he had no other choice. He doped the majority of his career, and was part of a team wide systematic doping program. He has years to admit to it, and didn't until it was at his very doorstep.
> 
> He deserves nothing but scorn. You are punishing those who cheat and get caught- like he did (and Armstrong didn't). He is no different then Basso, Ullrich, or any of the Festina riders. None. Cheating is cheating, and there has to be repercussions. The first is no employment on a Protour Team. If a certain Belgian classics rider with a love for wasps and stingers can't work with a Protour team, why should Aldag?


I have to agree with Coolhand and yes, I agree if you cheat, YOU ARE GONE.

Want to know the cowards? Virenque, Zabel, Basso, cowards everyone and all should be banned.

As to the reactions, lets face it, as has been stated many many times before, there is no sanction that would prevent doping. The ludicrous part are the folks who say, wow, thats not fair because well he eventually came clean after duress etc etc. SO WHAT? They did not come clean on their own. Even Millar, yes, he confessed,. AFTER he got caught. 

Nuke em. Sooner or later they will be gone and the folks who still dope, while yes, they cheat, they have a CRYSTAL CLEAR impression of what will happen.


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## SilasCL (Jun 14, 2004)

I say Zabel and Millar are a bit different. Zabel was in a situation where there were reports that there had been organized team doping, and he decided to come clean. Millar was in a similar situation, and called the accuser a 'nutter'. He didn't confess until the police found used EPO vials in his home.

Call me crazy, but I see these as slightly different situations.


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## framed (Oct 25, 2005)

dwwheels said:


> I find it hard to believe that he or anyone only used for 1 week. Nobody is going to put themselves into a situation (career/life ending, public shame as a cheater) to just see what all of the fuss is about.


Well, Zabel's story jives with what Jef d'Hondt says happened but then you would know more about it than either of them, wouldn't you?


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## adaml (Oct 31, 2003)

Well, IF Zabel only used it one week, he has had a very impressive career against a whole field of dopers.


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## StillRiding (Sep 16, 2006)

*The moment to come...*

I'm waiting for the "I am Sparticus" moment when every pro rider ever stands up and claims to have doped. It seems to be going that way, and if that moment ever comes, it would certainly open the door to a general amnesty and a new approach to controlling drugs in cycling, something which is obviously and desperately needed.


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## bas (Jul 30, 2004)

Hairnet said:


> Armstongs code of silence and punishing those who speak out, and your idea of punishing those who come forward won't solve the problem.



Should we give them lollipops if they come forward? 50K cash? Gold Medals?


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## dagger (Jul 22, 2004)

*Love the analogy*



StillRiding said:


> I'm waiting for the "I am Sparticus" moment when every pro rider ever stands up and claims to have doped. .


Brilliant.


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## dwwheels (Feb 28, 2007)

framed said:


> Well, Zabel's story jives with what Jef d'Hondt says happened but then you would know more about it than either of them, wouldn't you?



They have had years to line up their "stories". The cheaters have been talking for years in the waiting room at the doctor's office. I never stated I knew more than them, but common sense is a good start when listening to these cheaters. There is no way anyone tries EPO, (steroids, HGH, etc.) for one week, wins races and then says I am going back to the middle of the pack to carry water bottles.


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