# Purchase process with Bikesdirect



## Richard.Howe (Sep 20, 2009)

Morning everyone --

After taking the past 7 years off cycling, I've decided to taper back my running and get back onto the bike. The key reason is a torn left soleus that just won't heal...hopefully I can reduce the pounding (to somewhere less than 20 mi/week) but keep my condition in the process.

My last ride was a Y-Foil with full DA, and I really loved that bike. I sold it after moving to an extremely bike-unfriendly town, and became a runner.

But with this $#*@ injury, cycling is becoming an inevitability again, and I need to buy a bike.

I'm writing this post to document my experience with BD. I've read a lot of reviews, some great, others not-so-great, of customer service over there, and have decided that the good stories outweigh the bad.

To that end, I'm planning on ordering a Motobecane Le Champion Team this week, and want to publicly document the process from start to finish. The reason for this is simple; to provide another datapoint for potential buyers, and help you spend your money where it counts most. I expect that this will be a seamless, easy process that yields a great bike, and hopefully be able to put customers (like me) at ease with the process.

I'll plan to report each phase of the transaction, objectively, without resorting to either whining (on one end of the spectrum) or "shilling" (as I'm learning BD advocates may be accused of), and let everyone know details of each step of the communication/shipping/receipt/inspection/riding process.

So...let's get started!

*Update 21-Sept-09*

Sent a pre-purchase email to BD on Saturday asking some basic, last-minute questions around:

1) confirming the titanium Le Champion Team w/ Dura Ace is in stock, as shown
2) what the "normal" response time is for potential problems
3) frame geometry clarification, and 
4) handlebar width

Will update the thread when I get a response, and when I submit the order.

Rich


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## Richard.Howe (Sep 20, 2009)

*Update 22-Sept*

Emails answered this morning. Pending one set of follow-up clarifications, order will be submitted today.


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## Richard.Howe (Sep 20, 2009)

*Update 22-Sept PM*

Quick & thoughtful responses from BD Mike and Chris on all issues.

Order placed for 53cm Le Champion Team Ti at 5:30pm Central time.


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## orangeclymer (Aug 18, 2009)

i'm likin this sequence of communication and events as they unfold. :thumbsup:


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## Richard.Howe (Sep 20, 2009)

*Update 23-Sept*

Awesome email in the Inbox this morning:

_UPS Ship Notification, Tracking Number 1ZT3519T4298782436_

So far, so good. Fingers crossed for a happy moment after opening the box on Friday. I plan on shooting photos of the delivery and package internals when it shows up, and posting here.


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## doctorspokes (Aug 16, 2008)

so far seems the same as my experience with my Le Champion SL TI. I am taking mine on a 100 mile ride tomorrow.


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## Richard.Howe (Sep 20, 2009)

*Update 25-Sept*

Bike showed up Friday afternoon, after ordering _Tuesday night_. That's fast shipping, especially considering it was "free."

Here's how it showed up:










And an hour later, here was the result:










Packaging was very secure. The bike showed up with most things properly torqued, and the unlisted pedals turned out to be 105's. 

Weld quality looks great on the surface; I plan to shoot the welds with radiography early next week to check penetration and fusion. But I suspect there'll be no problems based on the surface bead quality alone.

Components were all correctly installed, but of course there the normal minor tasks like brake pad alignment and derailleur limits to set.

There were some very minor QC issues. One, the FD cable overhang was crushed and frayed without a cap installed. Also, the Mavic Ksyriums had QC labels stuck inside the rim, so that the tire had to be locally removed to get them off. The wheels had some very minor truing that needed to be done as well.

What about weight? I've read that the Motobeane bikes have gained the Freshman 15 since being positively reviewed, so this made me understandably nervous. Here's the math from my bathroom scale: I weigh 154.8 lbs without the bike, and 170.6 lbs with. That makes a 15.8 lb bike. Note that BD website says the bike weighs 15.75 to 16.5 lbs. Since mine is a 53cm, I expected it to be substantially heavier than the 15.75lbs -- what a great surprise. 

Frame fit appears (at least initially) to be good as well. I have historically ridden 56cm bikes, but Mike and Chris recommended a 53cm in the Le Champion given its CF geometry and my dimensions. My reminder lesson: be sure to ask about frame sizing before assuming that your current frame size will translate directly.

What's next? I might tighten things up a bit by getting a shorter stem, and I plan to replace the saddle/seatpost with the Selle Italia SLC and Thomson Elite combo I'm already familiar with. Note that the Ritchey saddle that ships with the Le Champion Team is already fairly comfortable, but I have discovered that I pretty much can't live without the cutout. Will also add some Speedplay X/2 pedals.

I'll post more after getting some miles into this thing and feedback on the experience. *But so far, so great.*


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## natethomas2000 (Aug 2, 2009)

Looks great - I'm considering one of these or a Neuvation for a next bike.

I like that the graphics are pretty subtle - lets the bike do the talking - not the brand.

Any chance you'll be unloading the 105 pedals? I'd be interested if you are.


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## Richard.Howe (Sep 20, 2009)

*Update 28-Sept*

Just picked up the bike from my LBS, where I dropped a significant amount of $$ on gear. I asked them to go over everything to confirm that I bought what I thought I bought -- happy to report that not only are all parts as advertized, but also reported that most things were actually properly torqued from the factory.

The owner asked what I paid for it, then asked if the seller had stolen it.

Nice confirmations.

Tonight the weather in New Orleans is changing. Low in the low 60's and highs in the low 80's. This rig is getting a workout tomorrow.

Will report back.


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## mchiado (Aug 28, 2009)

My purchase experience with BikesDirect for a Motobecane Le Champion Team is similar to Richard's: emails answered within 24-hours, ordered Tuesday, delivery expected today according to the UPS tracking number.


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## Richard.Howe (Sep 20, 2009)

*Update 4-Oct*

OK, so -- 1 week and 200 miles later:

My legs are rubber, but the Motobecane is still a great bike. No, it will not win any oohs and ahhhs from the doctor bike clique, but that makes it so much more fun when you drop them.

The ti Le Champion frame still fits me well. Ride quality is less compliant than the old cantilevered top tube bike I used to ride (obviously), and also since the seat stays on the Le Champion are straight, but all in all, it isn't harsh at all. Certainly more of a fluffy ride than the aluminum C-dales I've borrowed before. 

Minor issues with one of the seatpost adjustment screws, but I was planning to replace anyway with a Thomson. 

Overall: excellent, excellent purchase. Here's hoping your experience will be a smooth and buyers-regret-free as mine. When it's time to buy a little brother to the Le Champion for my wife, I'll be buying from BD.

Rich


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## zoikz (Sep 5, 2003)

Very economical bike to buy. If you're not getting oohs and aahs it's because people don't know what they are looking at. A ti bike with DA 7900, Kysrium wheels? I mean come on? That's awesome. 
Frame is Chinese. They are whipping those things out like mad. Super cheap. 
Ti is such a great material, I can see the attractiveness. 
Personally I would have gone for something like a Lynsky and Rival kit. I'm one of those snobs who thinks it's better to support companies who do something more than buy frames from sweatshops, slap a label on it and sell it on a website. Can't argue with the price and the quality should be fine...but it's a bike with no soul.
Oh and get that damn pie plate off the rear wheel.


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## bikesdirect (Sep 9, 2006)

zoikz said:


> Very economical bike to buy. If you're not getting oohs and aahs it's because people don't know what they are looking at. A ti bike with DA 7900, Kysrium wheels? I mean come on? That's awesome.
> Frame is Chinese. They are whipping those things out like mad. Super cheap.
> Ti is such a great material, I can see the attractiveness.
> Personally I would have gone for something like a Lynsky and Rival kit. I'm one of those snobs who thinks it's better to support companies who do something more than buy frames from sweatshops, slap a label on it and sell it on a website. Can't argue with the price and the quality should be fine...but it's a bike with no soul.
> Oh and get that damn pie plate off the rear wheel.


Our Ti bikes are from Taiwan - not China
Just to keep the facts straight

I assume you would apply the 'no soul' comment to any bike where frame building is contracted to frame factories in Taiwan or China [say like Specialized, Cannondale, Kestrel, Felt, etc, etc]


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## zoikz (Sep 5, 2003)

*Motobecane has no Soul*

Kinesis (who you contract to build your bikes) is based in Taiwan but has a major factory is in China. I saw other Ti frames for sale on Alibaba made by Kinesis that were from China. I'm pretty sure that's where they come from. 
Unfortunately the market has forced folks like Cannondale and Trek to spec out their bikes overseas. Was nice while it lasted. 
Of the companies you listed everyone of them did some revolutionary things in cycling. You're not even close to the same league.
They earned their reputation.
You bought yours. 
You bought the name from Motobecane to give you some kind of legitimacy, which you never earned. 
Sorry bub, your company has no soul, and neither do your bikes. You're just a successful business model. Nothing more.


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## Richard.Howe (Sep 20, 2009)

zoikz said:


> Very economical bike to buy. If you're not getting oohs and aahs it's because people don't know what they are looking at. A ti bike with DA 7900, Kysrium wheels? I mean come on? That's awesome.
> Frame is Chinese. They are whipping those things out like mad. Super cheap.
> Ti is such a great material, I can see the attractiveness.
> Personally I would have gone for something like a Lynsky and Rival kit. I'm one of those snobs who thinks it's better to support companies who do something more than buy frames from sweatshops, slap a label on it and sell it on a website. Can't argue with the price and the quality should be fine...but it's a bike with no soul.
> Oh and get that damn pie plate off the rear wheel.


No offense taken. I just didn't have an extra $2k for the soul option. It's an awesome ride that exceeds my capabilities (as I'm sure most folks' bikes do), and I'm sincerely happy with it. Best of luck.


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## Doolab (Feb 13, 2008)

Last time I checked, all inanimate objects had no soul. :aureola: 
That would include all the brands that "did some revolutionary things" to quote a hollow term that was coined in an earlier post. 

The main difference between motobecane and those large brands like trek/specialized/etc is the large marketing budgets they spend to get people to think their bike makes a rider go faster than on some other brand of bike... :wink:


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## bikesdirect (Sep 9, 2006)

zoikz said:


> Kinesis (who you contract to build your bikes) is based in Taiwan but has a major factory is in China. I saw other Ti frames for sale on Alibaba made by Kinesis that were from China. I'm pretty sure that's where they come from.
> Unfortunately the market has forced folks like Cannondale and Trek to spec out their bikes overseas. Was nice while it lasted.
> Of the companies you listed everyone of them did some revolutionary things in cycling. You're not even close to the same league.
> They earned their reputation.
> ...



Well you are wrong on several levels
First, Kinesis does not make our Ti bikes or Frames - they are built in Taiwan by a shop that does only Ti. There are lots of good frames made in China as you may know. In fact, most frames by most high zoot bike companies come from China. But Ti Motobecane frames are hand built in Taiwan. That is just a fact.

We do some revolutionary things too - maybe you have not been completely informed. But I understand you think a bike designed by someone at trek or Cannondale has a soul - but that bikes designed by me or my staff do not. Maybe you can see into souls; I do not know. But if people want to buy what you are selling; that is fine with me. Just as long as they get out and enjoy their bikes.


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## psykorunr (Aug 7, 2009)

zoikz said:


> Kinesis (who you contract to build your bikes) is based in Taiwan but has a major factory is in China. I saw other Ti frames for sale on Alibaba made by Kinesis that were from China. I'm pretty sure that's where they come from.
> Unfortunately the market has forced folks like Cannondale and Trek to spec out their bikes overseas. Was nice while it lasted.
> Of the companies you listed everyone of them did some revolutionary things in cycling. You're not even close to the same league.
> They earned their reputation.
> ...


If I wanted to buy a soul, I'd find a voodoo witch doctor. However, I wanted a quality built bike at a competitive price, which is exactly what I got when my Le Champion Ti arrived.

:thumbsup: Motobecane :thumbsup:


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## colesey (Jun 16, 2008)

Nice bike Rich!

I took the plunge 2 years ago and bought one of aluminium framed Le Champions fitted with Campag Record. I figured it was so cheap that I could chuck away the frame if I didn't like it however the reality was that it rode pretty well. 

Since my first transaction with Bikesdirect had worked out well despite the extra complications associated with being an overseas buyer, I had little hesitation in buying one of their ti xtr hardtails 9 months later. That's a lovely little bike!

As events subsequently transpired, a great Parlee Z3c frameset popped up on ebay last autumn and I had little hesitation in snapping it up. The mechanic who swapped over the equipment from the Le Champion ended up buying my old frameset for his winter training ride and also liked it. Unsurprisingly though, the Parlee frame is in a different league to the kinesis one however that shouldn't come as a surprise given the huge difference in their pricing.

Dealing with Bikesdirect does have some idiosyncrasies, however in my experience they do provide a decent product at a great price.


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## aaronis31337 (Apr 7, 2008)

Dude! Mike!

I asked the same question regarding fit and you said go with 56! I'm not happy with my 56 and should have gotten a 53. Now I'm eyeing the Ketrel because of this. Any chance I can get a discount?


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## Richard.Howe (Sep 20, 2009)

Maybe not an apples-to-apples situation; I sent their tech support detailed dimensions of my inseam, height, weight, torso, arm length, knee-to-heel, and hip-to-knee. That was the basis of their recommendation. I did mention that I'd ridden a 56cm frame historically, but the geometry on that bike was totally different than the compact frame of the Le Champion. 

Lesson learned (for me): the "correct" size of one geometry may not be correct for another.


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## rgmcstewart (Oct 8, 2009)

I too have been off the bike for the past several years and found myself back in the market to purchase a new ride. After some extensive searching, I decided to take the plunge and go with bikesdirect. My purchase was the Kestrel RT800 with full SRAM Red. I could not be more pleased!!!! The bike arrived in great condition with only minor assembly required. Great place to purchase high quality cycles.





Richard.Howe said:


> Morning everyone --
> 
> After taking the past 7 years off cycling, I've decided to taper back my running and get back onto the bike. The key reason is a torn left soleus that just won't heal...hopefully I can reduce the pounding (to somewhere less than 20 mi/week) but keep my condition in the process.
> 
> ...


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## aaronis31337 (Apr 7, 2008)

Can you please give us some information on the ride and fit? Is it harsh like the critics say?


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## rgmcstewart (Oct 8, 2009)

My frame is the 51cm and it has a terrific ride. It is stiff, yes, but not harsh. 




aaronis31337 said:


> Can you please give us some information on the ride and fit? Is it harsh like the critics say?


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## Richard.Howe (Sep 20, 2009)

aaronis31337 said:


> Can you please give us some information on the ride and fit? Is it harsh like the critics say?


This is purely subjective, of course, but I find the ride to be quite nice. No, it's not a plush commuter nor is it a cantilever bike -- but it tends to ride well on the roads I frequent. I suspect the 3Al-2.5V helps, but that's just a guess.

My backside only starts to complain at 50mi.

Handling is typically responsive for a short-wheelbase frame.


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## rook (Apr 5, 2009)

Yeah, it's irritating when people say that all Chinese, Taiwanese, and other Asian products have no soul. It's not just xenophobic, but I think it really masks the true racist feelings of people just hidden under the surface. The next thing you know, people are going to start chiming in about how their best friend is Chinese, and blah blah blah.

I have read about these Motobecane Ti frames on other forums. Bottom line. Irrespective of country of manufacturer, the frames are superb. Great welding, good reliability.


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## Gary in WI (Oct 14, 2009)

*My Purchase Experience - LeChamp Ti*

As I have found this forum to be helpful in my purchasing decision, I thought I would pass along my experience in purchase a 51cm LeChampion Ti - Base Model. Why did I choose the base model? 1) I wanted a compact crank. 2) My current bike has had Mavic Askium wheels for the past three years and they have performed flawlessly for me. 3) I'm 10 pounds overweight so the weight savings of the SL or Team models is overkill 4) The base model is probably too good of a bike for me anyway!

My goal was to replace my tired 15 year old road bike with 40,000 miles. It fit me well and I wanted to replicate its setup. I was not too worried about assembling the bike as I put together my daughter's Ibex Aprisa two years ago. (What ever happened to Ibex? They're always totally sold-out now)

I ordered the bike Monday night. One thing that surprised my is that the online process does not allow different billing & shipping addresses. I wanted the bike to be shipped to my business, but I was not given that option. I emailed BD a few minutes after placing the order to request the alternate shipping address, but never received a response.

The bike arrived Friday. The box was in good condition. I have read posts where guys say they put the bike together in 45 minutes. I took about 45 minutes to get the bike out of the box. You have to take real care removing the front wheel as it is interlaced with a crank arm. A lot of time was spent measuring the old bike and matching the setup. In total, I took about four hours in assembly.

The bike comes with big black "pie plate" spoke protector on the real wheel. I found this very difficult to cut off as there just is very limited clearance. Finally, I used an old soldering iron to burn a couple cuts in it to quickly remove it. I also removed the rectangular "warning" label on the top tube and the "Made in Taiwan" label on the head tube.

The bike looks exactly as it is represented in the photo gallery. The welds look good and think the brushed finish/no clear coat look was the right choice.

The Motobecane graphics look good, although I do prefer the more understated decals on the team frame. The Ritchey stuff is too "NASCAR-like" for my taste. I think there are 10 logos on the stem alone. Overall the silver and black colors look great.

For you weight watchers, with no pedals or saddle, the bike weighs 17.1 lbs. With Speedplay Frogs and a Brooks B17, the weight is 18.9 lbs.

The spec sheet does not state it, but the stem is 100mm/6 degrees (flippable). The fork comes with 4 spacers of various heights totalling 2".

How does it ride? How the hell should I know -- I just put it together yesterday! I'll let you know after 1000 miles.


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## Richard.Howe (Sep 20, 2009)

> The bike comes with big black "pie plate" spoke protector on the real wheel. I found this very difficult to cut off as there just is very limited clearance


The best way to do this is removal of the cassette...


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## toadbiker (Mar 14, 2006)

but sometimes ya don't have the tools...


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## hkpc20790 (Jul 11, 2009)

bikesdirect said:


> Our Ti bikes are from Taiwan - not China
> Just to keep the facts straight
> 
> I assume you would apply the 'no soul' comment to any bike where frame building is contracted to frame factories in Taiwan or China [say like Specialized, Cannondale, Kestrel, Felt, etc, etc]


Well Mike I think you are right about this soul or no soul thing. One thing I suggest to BD is make sure your spec on the bike is accurate. I ordered a Mercier Orion Al last summer it said on the website that it's a 8 speed with a 1 in steering tube. The bike I received is a 9 speed with a standard 1 1/8 steering tube. Not that I am not happy with the upgrade but I mean you should make sure the information in the web page is accurate.


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## bikesdirect (Sep 9, 2006)

hkpc20790 said:


> Well Mike I think you are right about this soul or no soul thing. One thing I suggest to BD is make sure your spec on the bike is accurate. I ordered a Mercier Orion Al last summer it said on the website that it's a 8 speed with a 1 in steering tube. The bike I received is a 9 speed with a standard 1 1/8 steering tube. Not that I am not happy with the upgrade but I mean you should make sure the information in the web page is accurate.



You are correct; but sometimes when we ship bikes with upgrades - we do not note that until inventory is completely clear of old stock.

Right now - several of our bikes are coming with upgrades - that everyone seems to be happy to get

I like the idea of under promising and over delivering


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## bobthib (May 28, 2009)

zoikz said:


> Kinesis (who you contract to build your bikes) is based in Taiwan but has a major factory is in China. I saw other Ti frames for sale on Alibaba made by Kinesis that were from China. I'm pretty sure that's where they come from.
> Unfortunately the market has forced folks like Cannondale and Trek to spec out their bikes overseas. Was nice while it lasted.
> Of the companies you listed everyone of them did some revolutionary things in cycling. You're not even close to the same league.
> They earned their reputation.
> ...


Mike, at least zoikz got ONE thing right. 

Full disclosure - I got a BD Immortal Pro in May and I love it. My experience was pretty much identical to what has been documented in this thread. When I had a problem which I thought was a warranty issue that resulted in a broken RD ( NEVER CARRY ANY SMALL RAGS IN YOUR RIGHT KIT POCKETS!) the staff was very reponsive. Mike even called me personally. 

BD bikes are not for everyone. LBS is not for everyone. I studied the market carefully and made an informed choice. I was rewarded with a lot of bike for not a lot of $.


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## Richard.Howe (Sep 20, 2009)

Just hit 1000 base miles.

I sidelined the Ksyriums and replaced them with some Chris King / DT / CXP33 training wheels.

This bicycle has proven to be reasonably stiff, so I also added a Koobi PRS Alpha for the centuries and longer training rides.

Excellent bike, in my experience.


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## lethbinh (Jan 6, 2010)

I like this bike too but I wonder if it fits 700x28 tires? Anyone has tried?


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## bikesdirect (Sep 9, 2006)

lethbinh said:


> I like this bike too but I wonder if it fits 700x28 tires? Anyone has tried?



I have mounted 28c on our Ti road bikes - fits fine

However, that is as big as I would go on this design


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## hunterchuckd (Jul 8, 2009)

Richard, thanks for the great review. I am very close to pulling the trigger on a (another) bikes direct bike. I am curious, you said you replaced the Ksyrium wheels; may I ask why? Performance, weight, bent?

Just trying to get my ducks in a row before I spend $3000...

I'm not worried about buying through BikesDirect; I bought a Motobecane Fantom Team last year and couldn't be happier with it.


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## Richard.Howe (Sep 20, 2009)

Nothing wrong with the Ksyriums; but as a primary training wheel, I wanted something that could break a spoke and keep rolling. That, and I have wanted a King-hubbed set of bombproof training wheels for....oh....about a decade.  The Ksyriums go back on for hilly races and centuries.


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