# Out-of-true/lateral runout spec for new factory wheelset



## Clevor (Sep 8, 2005)

I just bought that dial indicator attachment for my Park truing stand. What is the generally accepted (lateral) out-of-true spec for a new wheelset? I think it's 1 mm max?

How about radial runout of the rim?


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## Lab Worker (May 31, 2004)

Most of the factory wheels I've measured are somewhere between +/- 1mm and 3mm with the worst being +/- 5mm.

A well-built wheel should have less than +/- 0.1mm of lateral and vertical run-out. I find the machined sidewall DT Swiss rims give the least run-out and they can be built to around +/- 0.04mm.


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## Clevor (Sep 8, 2005)

Deleted, got my mms wrong. Let me check the dial indicators again.


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## rruff (Feb 28, 2006)

1mm is a lot...

If all rims were made perfect it would be easy to get even tension and prefect true... but since they aren't I tend to favor more even tension with a maximum out-of-true of 0.4mm radially and 0.2mm laterally.


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## Clevor (Sep 8, 2005)

Anybody know the factory out-of-true spec that Zipp uses? I know HED uses +/- 1.0 mm. Discerning a 0.5 mm out-of-true might be the best one can do by eyeballing, but it shows up huge on a dial indicator.

Park Tools told me that the lateral runout spec for most factory wheels is +/- 1.0 mm. Nothing all that wrong with that, as I've heard Pro Tour wheelsets are running around that max or a bit more. Also that might be expected for a $180 Vuelta wheelset but not really acceptable on a $2500 set of Hyperon tubulars.

For radial runout, Park said shoot for 0.5 mm max.

And while shooting for 0.1-0.2 mm max out-of-true might be commonplace for a respected pro wheelbuilder, I guess you wouldn't expect the 50 or so wheelbuilders at a Shimano factory to try to hit that spec on every wheel. I have maybe eight factory wheelsets which I plan to check by dial indicator eventually, but offhand by the eyeballing I did when I received them, I'd say all are within 0.5 mm with one wheelset at 1.0 mm. This is out-of-true as too difficult to eyeball radial true.

I think my Ligero Crostini clinchers are down there around 0.1 mm true or less.

So you pro wheelbuilders say you build routinely to 0.1-0.2 mm out-of-true???? I will be sure to check the next time I get a custom wheelset!  

I hate the cheesy dial indicators on the Park tool though. Not even jeweled. I have Mitutoyo digital dial indicators I use to rebuild race motors, and the nice thing about these is it will indicate total runout with one spin of the wheel; it automatically adds up the +/- max. Plus they will read to 0.0001" . It's not possible to mod the spindle to fit the Park roller tips though.


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## PeanutButterBreath (Dec 4, 2005)

Clevor said:


> Discerning a 0.5 mm out-of-true might be the best one can do by eyeballing, but it shows up huge on a dial indicator.


How does it show up while riding?  Some information is for novelty purposes only.


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## rruff (Feb 28, 2006)

Clevor said:


> Discerning a 0.5 mm out-of-true might be the best one can do by eyeballing, but it shows up huge on a dial indicator.


0.1mm is very easy to eyeball.



> So you pro wheelbuilders say you build routinely to 0.1-0.2 mm out-of-true???? I will be sure to check the next time I get a custom wheelset!


Even *tension* is what makes a wheel strong. If you favor true on a stiff rim that isn't very round, then the wheel will be weaker than it could be. The trick is getting the optimum of both... only deviate from even tension to achieve *acceptable* true. If the rim is nearly perfect then no worries... but that isn't often the case. 

I got a new Zipp wheel once that a customer wanted me to check... and it was a good thing too. The wheel was true, but the NDS tension was all over the place... like 20-80kg! As it turns out it was completely unnecessary too. I think the guy who built it was fired eventually... just mentioning it to illustrate that getting the wheel true doesn't make it good.


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## wankski (Jul 24, 2005)

word, 1mm is a lot for lateral true which is the easiest to correct... i can't give you a figure for what my builds are, but 1mm would easily scrape on even the most rudimentary of feeler arms on the cheapest of truing stands...

"wow, what a crap wheelbuilder, doesn't even know how true his wheels are!" i hear you say?

well that's b/c mr rruff hit it on the head... in my book, there is such a thing as true enough, i pay much more attention to relative tension, and i do use a park tool religiously for that...

tension, lateral true, radial true <- my order of importance


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## Clevor (Sep 8, 2005)

wankski said:


> word, 1mm is a lot for lateral true which is the easiest to correct... i can't give you a figure for what my builds are, but 1mm would easily scrape on even the most rudimentary of feeler arms on the cheapest of truing stands...
> 
> "wow, what a crap wheelbuilder, doesn't even know how true his wheels are!" i hear you say?
> 
> ...


I got a Park Spoke Tension Tool too, so I can start checking that :wink5:.

So far I've checked three Shimano wheelsets for lateral/radial true and results look pretty good for a factory wheelset. Park Tool also mentioned that for lateral runout, a "very nice" wheel would be 0.1-0.3mm run out. A typical standard for a good shop wheel is 0.5mm. Lateral true for three Shimano wheelsets, all six wheels range from 0.25-0.33 mm. I can only measure radial true on one wheelset since the other two have tires on them and that is 0.32-0.33 mm. 

One wheelset (WH-7850-C24 CL) has been ridden once. What's interesting is that the cheapest wheelset, an WH-R560 Ultegra wheelset which I got for $165 on sale, has been ridden for two years where at one point, I was up to 194 pounds. Lateral true F/R is still 0.30/0.28 mm. I like the 7801 design of this wheelset so much, I recently picked up the high end 7801 carbon tubulars in both deep and shallow dish, not easy to do since they were discontinued in 2007. Brand new sets were pretty hard to find, but at least I got them discounted off the $1800-2200 list prices. I like the thick bladed spokes, wide rear hub flanges for lateral stiffness, and nipples at the hub for lower rotating weight and better aerodynamics. These wheelsets had really good aero based on the Tour Magazine tests, and the deep dish WH-7801-50 carbons were considered the best overall wheelset in the 2006 test.


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## wankski (Jul 24, 2005)

yeah, i actually like the high end shimano and campy wheelsets...

the thing is, if one were to buy them on or near list price... well i can think of better things...

edge/tune/cxrays are the best wheels i have built, they're pretty amazing... u'd actually have change from bora ultra 2s, and in my estimation - handily better.... u're looking at 1060g, maybe less for the 1.45s!

the 1.25s i built came in at 887g  could easily have gone lighter, but that was with sturdy cxrays all round and tune's heaviest road hubs...


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## eddie m (Jul 6, 2002)

I have a Racelite manual that says 0.4mm lateral and radial runout is OK. I need a dial indicator to see anything less than about 1/2 mm, but it's usually easy to get to 0.4 or even less with the dial, assuming you start with new rims. OTOH tires are out of round by more than a 1/2 mm. 
I think you get a better wheel if you focus more on equal tension once you get runout down to 1/2 mm or so.

BK


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