# What's bad about BikesDirect bikes???



## Peter_Klim

There's a whole lotta BD/Motobecane/Mercier/ect bashing going on but none of these bashers have stated why their frames suck.

Stating its a "POS", "not worth it" or any other vague opinions doesn't really prove anything. What evidence is there that they're not good??

Is the material they're made of garbage? Is the frame too heavy? Are the welds crappy? Do the frames bend? crack? melt? disintegrate while riding in a sudden rainstorm???

I could understand if this were an "Audio" forum and we were discussing Bose speakers, but... I would like to know in particular, for the selling price of the complete bike and for the quality of the components you are getting, what is wrong with these frames? (and please sure to peruse this question before answering).


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## Dave Hickey

Do a search....this has been beaten to death and it's getting quite old....


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## bikeboy389

Peter_Klim said:


> There's a whole lotta BD/Motobecane/Mercier/ect bashing going on but none of these bashers have stated why their frames suck.
> 
> Stating its a "POS", "not worth it" or any other vague opinions doesn't really prove anything. What evidence is there that they're not good??
> 
> Is the material they're made of garbage? Is the frame too heavy? Are the welds crappy? Do the frames bend? crack? melt? disintegrate while riding in a sudden rainstorm???
> 
> I could understand if this were an "Audio" forum and we were discussing Bose speakers, but... I would like to know in particular, for the selling price of the complete bike and for the quality of the components you are getting, what is wrong with these frames? (and please sure to peruse this question before answering).


Since I haven't answered any of these, and in spite of Dave's well-placed admonition that you should just do a search, I'll answer.

You're reading it wrong, mostly. The majority of people who complain are griping about bikesdirect, not their bikes. Poor service horror stories abound, people are wary (at least) of attracting people who know little about bikes but price to buy online where there's no after-purchase support or service, and where they have to assemble their own bikes, and wary of encouraging purchase of bikes that can't be test-ridden for fit, ride or comfort, some people resent that once-famous Euro brands are now coming out of Asia to an internet bargain bin near you, and finally, the fact that they have a long, nasty history of sending sock puppets around here to shill for the company by starting threads about their bikes and what a great deal they are has upset a LOT of people.

I don't think they shill much anymore, if at all--in fact, they appear to have decided to treat us as adults and actually ask readers' opinions about new offerings in the Frames forum, which while it's still advertising, it's under their own name and they do seem to understand whatever critiques about the bikes they get.

But memories can be long, and many people really resent the forum spamming BD did for MANY years, and from some guys all you're going to get is, "they suck, their bikes suck, everything about them sucks, aaaaargh!" You'll even get that from some people who have just picked up the vibe and try to play along.

Do the bikes actually suck? Probably not, but I'll probably never buy one, and wouldn't recommend any online bike purchase for anyone who doesn't know how to really understand a bike geometry chart and build a bike from scratch. But I can't say their bikes are no good.


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## lamazion

I'll chime in ... I've never purchased a bike from BD, but I would have a problem doing so. In the past, I've purchased a high end frame from my LBS. In doing so, I'm taking the same chance that my understanding of bike geometry and fit will result in a good purchase. Another thing to consider is that tube shaping and material science have come along way with bike desing. Two bikes with the same geometry may have similar handling characteristics, but ride quite differently. You will not know the ride characteristics if you can't test ride the bike. As far as support, I work on all my own bikes, so that is not an issue.

I agree that much of this bashing comes from not understanding the risks of making any internet purchase.


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## Guest

I've had experience with three different bikes from BD and have no complaints about anything. The first two bikes were for myself and my dad, and were the first two road bikes we'd ever ridden. For the pair we paid about 900 bucks! We proceeded to then fall in love with road cycling and consequently went to the LBS and bought new "nicer" bikes the following year after riding our $500 dollar BD bikes to death. 

Last winter my Dad bought another bike from BD, this time one with full Ultegra 10 and a phenomenal spec. job. The frame was very light ~2.6 lbs. and was sized very similarly (if not identically, didn't get out the tape measure) to the trek and fuji he already had. The price he paid would hardly cover the components, let alone the frame, so we both felt it was a fantastic deal. I rode the bike a few times and found the frame to be on par with any other aluminum frame of other "name" brand bikes in terms of stiffness, weld quality, aestethics and overall performance. If I recall correctly, it's made from Kinesis aluminum, double butted and tapered at the joints. It's not just a sloppy collection of tubes thrown together. It's a quality frame. And hey! If you don't like the frame, take the grand you saved from buying one of these and buy a "name" brand frame and switch the parts over. Good luck with your decision!


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## Henry Porter

needmoreair said:


> I've had experience with three different bikes from BD and have no complaints about anything. The first two bikes were for myself and my dad, and were the first two road bikes we'd ever ridden. For the pair we paid about 900 bucks! We proceeded to then fall in love with road cycling and consequently went to the LBS and bought new "nicer" bikes the following year after riding our $500 dollar BD bikes to death.
> 
> Last winter my Dad bought another bike from BD, this time one with full Ultegra 10 and a phenomenal spec. job. The frame was very light ~2.6 lbs. and was sized very similarly (if not identically, didn't get out the tape measure) to the trek and fuji he already had. The price he paid would hardly cover the components, let alone the frame, so we both felt it was a fantastic deal. I rode the bike a few times and found the frame to be on par with any other aluminum frame of other "name" brand bikes in terms of stiffness, weld quality, aestethics and overall performance. If I recall correctly, it's made from Kinesis aluminum, double butted and tapered at the joints. It's not just a sloppy collection of tubes thrown together. It's a quality frame. And hey! If you don't like the frame, take the grand you saved from buying one of these and buy a "name" brand frame and switch the parts over. Good luck with your decision!


No offense, needmoreair but these are the comments you usually see in BD posts. Newer member and always talk up the product highly and mention that the components alone are worth it. I don't know if needmoreair is legit but in the past it just comes off dishonest to me and there is no way I would spend any amount of money with what I feel is a dishonest business.


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## sonex305

His join date is a year before you in 2005, so I certainly wouldn't call him a new member. It just so happens that he has 811 fewer posts than you. Also, if you would have looked at his first 7 posts, this is his first about BD so please don't be so quick to judge.

This is just another reason that BD has a bad rep here, because people jump to conclusions before doing any research. BD may have done some stupid things in the past, but don't be so quick to make those sorts of accusations now. I realize you didn't directly call him a shill or call him dishonest, but you did insuate dishonesty on his part. 

As far as I am concerned, we are all here for the same reason regardless of the bike brand we ride. I wish we could get past some of this crap and just move on.


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## djg

Jeeze, maybe I should just stay away. I've seen a couple of these but have no personal experience with them. So why are garbage and fabulous bargain the only two possibilities? Can Taiwan factories build to spec and do a fine job? You bet, some certainly can. So what are the spec and who is designing the bike? With mainland production, there's seems to be greater risk and a bigger range of sketchy. Apart from materials and sound welds, there's the question of overall design, geometry, tube selection, and quality control standards for which a given label contracts? Is the alignment spot-on, so-so, highly variable? Can you tell? I've got a pretty good idea what certain producers will give me and I'm glad to pay a bit extra to do repeat business with them. Mercier and Motobecane made their names under particular conditions that are long gone; nowadays, they are trademarks owned by somebody who wants to have bikes produced under the old marques. Maybe they're fine or good or terrific or lousy, but the old reps for these bikes do not, IMO, point you toward any particular answer.

I don't see anything wrong with taking a risk on something new, if that's what somebody wants to do. At the same time, I don't think I know an experienced racer or other rider who would want to compromise his or her preferences on fit and or handling just to move from an 18 pound bike to a 17 pound bike, or just to swap ultegra for dura ace. If you have different preferences, party on.

The real problem -- or potential problem -- seems to be newbies. A decent LBS will not just get you on the right sized frame, but will make adjustments and swaps to get you in a decent position -- even if that means swapping stems and/or bars, or post, or saddle. If you don't know what adjustments should be made, you might get lucky, or you might get some obvious comfort/discomfort/minor injury problems, or you might really never know the difference. If you have to pay for final setup and assembly, and early maintenance (most local shops will throw in a season of tweaks and adjustments), it might really start to add up. Do it wrong yourself and you might damage something (and the something might be you). I suppose a newbie might want to pay his money and take his chances, but I'd heavily recommend that anybody new to the game deal locally, and deal with a known quantity.


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## tconrady

Henry Porter said:


> Newer member and always talk up the product highly and mention that the components alone are worth it.


The "components are worth it alone" argument bugs the ever lovin' crap out of me! I don't really have a beef either way with BD....heard some bad stories and have a close friend that has two and loves them and the experience.....but I think it's absolutely absurd to say that about the components. Obviously those folks aren't really shopping the groupsets/components or pricing really hard to see that an Ultegra 10 groupset ain't that expensive. They are just looking at a BD full Ultegra kitted bike vs. an LBS full Ultegra kitted bike. I think they figure the frames are about equal in the two bikes therefore the BD bike pretty much pays for the components. WRONG! You can catch a sale at PBK or Chain Reaction cycles for HALF the price of that BD bike easily. If you really search, hit google products or peruse ebay, you can find this stuff very reasonably cheap fairly easily. I agree the frames are not that big a cost to BD, but c'mon, those shimano components aren't as expensive as most LBS and the Performance Bikes of the world try to let on. Further, there is A LOT of skimping on the other non-shimano parts of the BD bikes....saddles, seatpost, stems, bars, etc. Therefore, the components don't make it worth it alone. That arguement is BOGUS!!! 

I understand where someone who doesn't look at buying just components and only purchases complete bikes would be misled over this. I just wish more people would educate them and stop this falsehood. There's absolutely nothing wrong for liking your BD bike. It's okay. No excuses necessary.

(End Rant) Thanks for the vent!


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## tconrady

djg said:


> Mercier and Motobecane made their names under particular conditions that are long gone; nowadays, they are trademarks owned by somebody who wants to have bikes produced under the old marques. Maybe they're fine or good or terrific or lousy, but the old reps for these bikes do not, IMO, point you toward any particular answer.



Wrong!

For the most part I agree with you post. However, there is still marketing capital in those names and that is where I have the biggest problem. If there wasn't, then why didn't BD make up a new manufacture name instead of purchasing those, eh? Let's put it this way. Say someone offers to sell you a new Porsche for 50k that used to be 100k. You'd be stoked.....rolling around enjoying you new Porsche. Now, what if someone told you that Porsche was no longer the same company that made your car, rather it was bought out and the manufacturing was being done by Kia/Hyundai. The 50k you spent is now gonna make you feel pretty hosed even though the engine may be sound, the interior is nice, and the logos still look like a Porsche. Nobody has really slammed the BD frames to my knowledge. However, to the average consumer who isn't really paying attention, they think it is the same Motobecane and Mercier producing the bikes and that is just misleading IMHO. 

Change the names and I have no problems at all. Further, if they're that great a value, then the name change shouldn't matter at all, right???


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## quattrotom

My wife and I each own a BD bike. 
She - a Fantom Cross bike that she races semi-regularly for fun
Me - an Outcast SS 29'er 

We also own or have recently owned bikes by: Bridgestone, Bianchi, Felt, Giant, Redline, Cannondale and Santana. 

For the most part, bikes are bikes. The components from BD bikes are the same as most bikes that cost 30-50% more. The frames appear to be made to the same standards as the other bikes we own. There are a couple of really nice details and a couple of dumb oversights on each of the BD bikes. I have this opinion of almost every bike and car I own - so again not out of the ordinary.

I see only two major differences that stand out:
1. A bike from a LBS can be ridden before purchase 
2. A bike from a LBS costs 30-50% more for about the same product

Some people have questioned their customer service. I had a very positive experience after questioning a component on my most recent BD purchase. An email to their customer service was returned within 24 hours, subsequent emails were returned within 12-18 hours and by the same person every time. Shipment of a new part arrived at my door within ~7 days. This was significantly faster than a previous experience with my Felt (a "traditional" brand) through the LBS.


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## Dave Hickey

sonex305 said:


> As far as I am concerned, we are all here for the same reason regardless of the bike brand we ride. I wish we could get past some of this crap and just move on.


It's not the anti-BD folks starting these threads. It is always some very low post count person that either doesn't know how to search or they are trying to prove a point.

Take needmoreair's post as an example...... is the same stuff over and over......Kinesis, light, full Ultegra 10...rides just like a Fuji/Trek...blah, blah, blah..tell us something we don't know..How about a ride report? How about a 1,000 mile report...2,000 mile report


You are obviously a satisfied customer and that is great...I enjoy reading you posts..You've single-handily tried to keep the Moto/Mercier forum alive...


It's funny when people post ride reports or pictures of their BD bikes out and about, there isn't a schill comment to be had. 

There is a post about a Motobecane fixie right now in the fixed gear forum. The poster has gotten nothing but praise about his bike..It's a beautiful bike....Why is his post different? It's not a damn infomercial for BD. He's just a guy that loves his bike...


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## moab63

*Well I bought one from them, a track bike for my son*

this was his training bike, I looked at the pista, and other in the under 1k range an really nothing came close to what they had for the money, the cheapest locally was the pista that would have come at over 600.00.

The motobacane delivered to my door was 350.00 or so, the bike did almost a whole season of racing and track training and some street riding. On the hands of a very fast kid, and still in great shape, we took it in to get tuned they guys just checked a few things but that was about it.

Now the argument that they are build in taiwan is crap, because 99% of all the bike in the world are build there. If all you want is namebrand for the sake of it well then do that but bashing a company just because they use the internet is crap. Plenty of LBS have no idea what they are doing about sizing or anything like that, also if you are going in there to buy a bike that cost less than a couple of grand they don''t take you seriously.

I do have LBS bought stores, cannondales ,treks and even a schwinn I have about 10k in bikes at the house, but I can also have a cheapy training bike. We are thinking about getting a Leader track bike now:thumbsup: 

So if you a legit complaint air it, that means you actually bought(you are a consumer), but just saying stuff for the sake of saying makes you a gossiping grandma. 

Oh yeah I don't work for BD:aureola:


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## AlexCad5

djg said:


> A decent LBS will not just get you on the right sized frame, but will make adjustments and swaps to get you in a decent position -- even if that means swapping stems and/or bars, or post, or saddle.


 My first roadbike was sized by a LBS, Way too big! But that is what they had to sell in the price I wanted to pay. This is a common problem.
Also the old school fitting philosophy of fitting a rider to larger sized frame with seat and bars at the same level is still in practice to some degree. 
These two factors when brought together results in a lot of ill fitting frames being sold by the many LBS's.
The explanation that they can adjust the components to fit isn't always true. It certainly will be better, but it may not be good, and certainly won't be perfect, unless the frame geometry was an excellent fit for that rider to begin with.
Certainly the odds of getting the good fitting frame from an LBS is much higher than online if you don't know what geometry will fit before you start. And if you ask a lot of questions at a lot of shops and take notes on recommended geometries (I compile geometry spread sheets) you are shooting in the dark.
So often on these boards people ask, Should I get a Trek Madone or a Specialized Roubaix? These folks are destined to get a bike that doesn't fit them very well.


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## Bocephus Jones II

why isn't this in the BD forum?


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## Henry Porter

sonex305 said:


> His join date is a year before you in 2005, so I certainly wouldn't call him a new member. It just so happens that he has 811 fewer posts than you. Also, if you would have looked at his first 7 posts, this is his first about BD so please don't be so quick to judge.
> 
> This is just another reason that BD has a bad rep here, because people jump to conclusions before doing any research. BD may have done some stupid things in the past, but don't be so quick to make those sorts of accusations now. I realize you didn't directly call him a shill or call him dishonest, but you did insuate dishonesty on his part.
> 
> As far as I am concerned, we are all here for the same reason regardless of the bike brand we ride. I wish we could get past some of this crap and just move on.


Thank you for pointing that stuff out. My post was to illustrate my perception of BD on this board and that with the amount any bike cost, that it wasn't worth it to risk that $ on a perceived iffy company.


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## teoteoteo

Simply put they are the devil. 

They prefer drugs not hugs. 

They ALWAYS shake a baby. 

They drown puppies. 

They prey on the old, in their spare time they run contstruction scams on them. 

The tubes on their frames are partially made from illegally gotton ivory elephant tusks.

The bar tape doubles as cherry bubble gum in case you bonk, but is lead based. 

They wipe towards their body, not away. 

They wear their dirty old undergarments with holes and TRY to go to the hostpital. 

They line the interior of their boxes with baby seal fur to protect the bikes during shipping. 

Shall we continue?


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## terry b

You took the words right out of my mouth.


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## California L33

sonex305 said:


> His join date is a year before you in 2005, so I certainly wouldn't call him a new member. It just so happens that he has 811 fewer posts than you. Also, if you would have looked at his first 7 posts, this is his first about BD so please don't be so quick to judge.
> 
> This is just another reason that BD has a bad rep here, because people jump to conclusions before doing any research. BD may have done some stupid things in the past, but don't be so quick to make those sorts of accusations now. I realize you didn't directly call him a shill or call him dishonest, but you did insuate dishonesty on his part.
> 
> As far as I am concerned, we are all here for the same reason regardless of the bike brand we ride. I wish we could get past some of this crap and just move on.


I have no information about the user one way or another, or whether BD has ever engaged in using sock puppets, but sheep dipping a sock puppet- creating numerous accounts, letting them sit, posting a few (not too many because it takes too long) posts- isn't new or difficult. I'd be much more confident if BD supporters had long histories, but in their defense, a lot of the people they sell to are new to cycling.


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## bikesdirect

*2 major issues:*

Peter, I feel a direct answer to your question is in order. There are two issues we have had with actual customers.

1 - poor communication. In the past we have sometimes been slow to answer e-mails. And worse, our site server has resulted in some responses being rejected by the sender's service. This year I have come close to completely solving this by [a] adding more people to answer e-mail * changing to several AOL and YAHOO names for responses. It appears to be working very well. All e-mails are answered quickly and we do not think they are being rejected by sender's service{and we encouage customers to send questions to our alternative e-mail if they do not get an answer in 24 hours or so}

2 - low stock. We keep running out of many many models. Several models we put on pre-sale and they sell out before landing. Worst situation this year has been with all track bikes, all cyclo cross bikes, Immortal Spirit, Fantom Team, all FLY series bikes. However, Nemesis Pro, lightning 1000, all Moto HTs, Windsor RWT, Sheila, and some DS bikes have also been out-of-stock issues. What we have done is double our warehouse space and stock. But that has not completely solved the issue. I am now looking at adding a thrid warehouse. In addition, we are adding two more good brands of bikes; so stock may remain an issue. To compound that - Shimano has increased lead times and shortages look likely.
However, I plan to do everything I can to solve this over the next year or two. And in the most popular models I am actually increasing stock to as much as 500% of previous year running average sales. 

If you read posts by actual customers; you find most find our quality, price, and service amazing. I am very happy with the tend and see no reason that it will not continue. The more people experience our customer value and service; the more referred customers we get.

happy shopping
and I hope you find the perfect bike for yourself in the price bracket you are comfortable with.

mike*


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## Jim Nazium

teoteoteo said:


> ...
> 
> They wipe towards their body, not away.
> 
> They wear their dirty old undergarments with holes and TRY to go to the hostpital.
> 
> Shall we continue?


Please do continue, that was farking hilariouse.


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## TickDoc

*you guys are nuts.*

It wouldn't surprise me if there aren't dozens of people out there who have had a bad customer experience with BD....but there are just as many who have had bad experiences from their LBS. All of us can be a victim of bad luck and poor customer service. 

I ordered one from them knowing full well what bad could happen. I saw the online reviews for and against (mainly against) but decided the risk was worth it. There was an undertone of BS in most of the anti BD posts that seemed petty and elitist. 

I ordered my LeChampion SL and it came nicely packed in about four days. I wrenched it myself (read install one cable and attatch handlebars) and almost rode it right out of the box. The front wheel needed truing,so Itook it to my LBS and had that done, where I also bought a pair of pedals to install and then started riding the bike on day two.

I am ending season two with the bike and have been very happy. It has successfully helped to get me hooked on cycling again and I am constantly reminded of wha a good deal I got on the bike. 

For me, it came down to about $400.00. That is the aount of money I feel I saved hands down by orderig my BD bike. I just couldn't touch it without compromsing in three big areas that are important to me: weight, wheels, and groupset.

I pondered for weeks whether it would be worth it to try to deal on a last year's model base carbon bike with tiagra or 105, buy something used off the bay, suck it up and pay the difference at the LBS, or risk it on BD. 

So far, the only problems i have had are with the cheap seat and Ritchey stem/handlebars...hardly a BD problem. The stem rattles a bit every 3-500 miles and needs to be loosened, cleaned, and retightened. I think this is from dust getting under it and attribute it to the fact that I ride over some dusty country roads from time to time. The bike is a bargain and a blast to ride. If I get real critical, the frame welds aren't moots perfect, and the paint has one area where the clearcoat was applied too heavy and dried up as a drip. My previous bike was an old Cannondale bought new from a dealer, and it was no better in eiter respect. 

I find the amount of posts directed towards BD both for and against is just staggering. Get over it people, it is a real company that is cutting costs by eliminating the middle man. Would it make you all feel better if they tacked on the additional $ that most LBS's charge? probably not. just get over it.


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## Bocephus Jones II

TickDoc said:


> It wouldn't surprise me if there aren't dozens of people out there who have had a bad customer experience with BD....but there are just as many who have had bad experiences from their LBS. All of us can be a victim of bad luck and poor customer service.
> 
> I ordered one from them knowing full well what bad could happen. I saw the online reviews for and against (mainly against) but decided the risk was worth it. There was an undertone of BS in most of the anti BD posts that seemed petty and elitist.
> 
> I ordered my LeChampion SL and it came nicely packed in about four days. I wrenched it myself (read install one cable and attatch handlebars) and almost rode it right out of the box. The front wheel needed truing,so Itook it to my LBS and had that done, where I also bought a pair of pedals to install and then started riding the bike on day two.
> 
> I am ending season two with the bike and have been very happy. It has successfully helped to get me hooked on cycling again and I am constantly reminded of wha a good deal I got on the bike.
> 
> For me, it came down to about $400.00. That is the aount of money I feel I saved hands down by orderig my BD bike. I just couldn't touch it without compromsing in three big areas that are important to me: weight, wheels, and groupset.
> 
> I pondered for weeks whether it would be worth it to try to deal on a last year's model base carbon bike with tiagra or 105, buy something used off the bay, suck it up and pay the difference at the LBS, or risk it on BD.
> 
> So far, the only problems i have had are with the cheap seat and Ritchey stem/handlebars...hardly a BD problem. The stem rattles a bit every 3-500 miles and needs to be loosened, cleaned, and retightened. I think this is from dust getting under it and attribute it to the fact that I ride over some dusty country roads from time to time. The bike is a bargain and a blast to ride. If I get real critical, the frame welds aren't moots perfect, and the paint has one area where the clearcoat was applied too heavy and dried up as a drip. My previous bike was an old Cannondale bought new from a dealer, and it was no better in eiter respect.
> 
> I find the amount of posts directed towards BD both for and against is just staggering. Get over it people, it is a real company that is cutting costs by eliminating the middle man. Would it make you all feel better if they tacked on the additional $ that most LBS's charge? probably not. just get over it.


Why do most of the people singing the praises of BD have less than 10 posts here? Makes you wonder. 

Mods...please move this advertorial to the BD forum so I can go on ignoring it. Please?


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## bikesdirect

Bocephus Jones II said:


> Why do most of the people singing the praises of BD have less than 10 posts here? Makes you wonder.
> 
> Mods...please move this advertorial to the BD forum so I can go on ignoring it. Please?



And the answers are:

First, most most of the people singing the praises of BD have more than 10 posts
but many new posters ask about BD as it is hard to avoid seeing our site online

second, there is no BD forum


last; it is easy to ignor anything you wish to ignor
just give it a try, you'll like it


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## Len J

To answer the original post.....

1.) Memories are long & BD started off here shilling. 

2.) The majority of Pro BD (Not all) posters have very few posts (usually less than 25) which means that experienced readers have no clue as to their credibility.

Couple 1 with 2 and it's not to hard to understand.

That being said......I will say that BD has appeared to try to stay above board with their posts in the last couple of years. I wiill also say that their bikes tend to be low risk (from a $ & Cents standpoint) fror someone that doesn't know much about bikes.

Caveat Emptor. If I were in the market & had no experience with either this site or bikes in general, I would do a search on "Bikesdirect", "Motobecane" & read every post (Including those on their seperate board) completely discounting any post with less than 25 posts in their history (I know that is probably not fair, but the fact remains that most of those do sound like infomercials). Then I'd make my own risk decision.

Len


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## threesportsinone

> If you read posts by actual customers; you find most find our quality, price, and service amazing. I am very happy with the tend and see no reason that it will not continue. The more people experience our customer value and service; the more referred customers we get.


The problem is that it is so hard to tell "actual customers" from your lackeys. They're just so similar: 
low post count- (meaning nothing other than that just a statistic)
Same praise- ("and I can always swap the components on to a diff frame because I got such a great deal," BUT noobs don't actually know how hard it is to swap all the components from one frame to another.)
Many other reasons but I've wasted enough of my life to think further on this subject matter.

I just saw a post asking whether to get a carbon road bike or an alu cross bike, (thats what I get for venturing into the BD forum) an ad will show people your line-up just as well.


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## bikesdirect

threesportsinone said:


> The problem is that it is so hard to tell "actual customers" from your lackeys. .


I have no lackeys; noone in my company is posting on any bike related forum

these posts are running in the tens of thousands

http://www.bikeforums.net/showthread.php?t=180135&highlight=immortal+spirit

http://www.bikeforums.net/showthread.php?t=305822&highlight=bikesdirect

about 60,000 posts together in just these two threads: you think these are by my employees? if so, you are silly and do not know me a bit

bottom line is: as most here know: BD sells the same quality bikes as bike shops -- just in a box and much less money [about half what a dealer wil cost you]

mike


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## Guest

Henry Porter said:


> No offense, needmoreair but these are the comments you usually see in BD posts. Newer member and always talk up the product highly and mention that the components alone are worth it. I don't know if needmoreair is legit but in the past it just comes off dishonest to me and there is no way I would spend any amount of money with what I feel is a dishonest business.


Yeah, I can kind of understand where you're coming from. But maybe you've got $1200 bucks and want the most bang for your buck. You live in an area with only a couple of LBSs, maybe not one very close to you, and you have an idea of the size you need. You can peruse google and bike shop ads all you want, but this is still a heck of a deal. You're not getting ripped off, the company is not taking your money and running. They're sending you a good product for your money. You can argue the parts cost against the total cost all you want, but when I can part out a bike for a few hundred dollars more than I paid for it....

I've also spent two years working in said LBS's. I gotta tell you, the other employees and I complained about every "mail order" bike that was brought in to be assembled. This, of course, didn't mean that we didn't treat the customer just as well as we'd treat a customer who bought a bike from us. Sometimes, these were new riders who really didn't know that much about the sport. Same thing I did when I bought my first BD bike. Hard to tell how much you're going to like riding around on a bike with inch wide tires and a seat that might have to be surgically removed if things go wrong!  Normally we had no problem at all with the bikes, ( and I've even been pleasantly surprised by some mail-order carbon frames) but there were instances when we had to do some interesting things with stems and seatposts to make it fit correctly. That is a concern. But like I said earlier, if you have an idea about your size....

To the original poster, I maintain that these are quality bikes and great value for the money. The frames are good, the parts are fantastic and you will notice a difference if you pick up a 16-17 lb bike; doesn't matter if it's trek, bianchi, or motobecane. Don't get too hung about the name on the frame.


----------



## TickDoc

I see how i must look, but I am no shill. I have a few more posts over at another bike forum, but I come here only for inspiration and to ogle at the new shiny bikes. I am still a lurker, for the most part, but no shill.

I am new back to cycling, and forums like this didn't exist back when I rode before with dowtube shifters and toeclips. 

My other hobby is wristwatches, where I have over 2000 posts on one forum that hasn't been around more than a few years.

Noobs come over there all the time to ask quetions or seek advice, and they are never regarded as shills. Their opinions are respected and their questions are answered.

Shame it isn't the same over here.


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## Argentius

I have seen more than a couple of bikesdirect bikes in person -- I have not ridden one more than around a parking lot, and I have not studied the carbon fiber models up close.

What I do know is this: 

* The frame of the aluminum bikes is about a 50 dollar portion of the price. They work fine, and are comparable to other "shop-brand" bikes. In terms of detail, paint and weld quality, etc they are not as nice as Cannondale, Bianchi, etc. Those bikes you are paying more for the frame. They are much nicer than the department-store road bikes like the Schwinn Varsity I long-term tested. It had an aluminum frame from china, which probably cost about $5.

* The deal you get for the total package on the BD bike is cheaper than you would pay at a brick-and-mortar store, which should kind of be a no brainer. If you search, you could probably do just as well searching other online, discount, mail-order warehouses, but I don't think much better without dealer connections. But, if you did that, you would have parts from several sources, and you would of course need to assemble your ride.

If I were to buy one, I would not find anything to be terribly disappointed about. It'd be a decent bike.


----------



## threesportsinone

> Noobs come over there all the time to ask quetions or seek advice, and they are never regarded as shills. Their opinions are respected and their questions are answered.
> 
> Shame it isn't the same over here.


Unfortunately that's partly BD's fault



> I have no lackeys; noone in my company is posting on any bike related forum


Do you not consider yourself a part of your company? The owner of one LBS calls his shop his baby, that's reason enough for me to want to support him over you.

Have your employees ever shilled for you? (yes) (Edited because I was wrong.)
Why should I take your word that it has stopped? (I don't exactly know the answer for this one)

If Floyd Landis came back and won the Tour would you trust that he was clean? (probably not, at best you would be very skeptical.)


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## Dave Hickey

TickDoc said:


> Noobs come over there all the time to ask quetions or seek advice, and they are never regarded as shills. Their opinions are respected and their questions are answered.
> 
> Shame it isn't the same over here.



And noobs are welcome here too.....In case you think other cycling forums are different, I offer the following

http://forums.bicycling.com/eve/forums/a/tpc/f/612104717/m/4371005133

http://www.bikeforums.net/showthread.php?t=326813

It's not RBR folks.....If it walks like a duck.....


----------



## bikesdirect

threesportsinone said:


> Do you not consider yourself a part of your company? The owner of one LBS calls his shop his baby, that's reason enough for me to want to support him over you.
> 
> Have you ever had your employers shill for you? (yes)
> 
> .)


answer to number 1
YES of course; but I do not think you are saying I am a 'shill'
so I am unsure what you are saying

answer to number 2
NO - I have never had any employee shill for me -- but some employees did some shilling a couple of years ago [untill I found out about it and stopped it] {unfortunately, many many many non-shill visitors to RBR have been turned off to he site by being called names after first posting on the site -- the name callers do not understand how people find RBR or why they log on & ask questions}

Last note: If you have an LBS that you love; you should buy from them unless
a - they price outside your budget and you prefer to keep your 'extra' money
b - they can not get something that you really want

there are plenty of customers for online sellers who want to save money and/or get things that are not available at any LBS near them. That is` why we and other online sellers`are doing vey well.

mike


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## Henry Porter

needmoreair said:


> Yeah, I can kind of understand where you're coming from. .


Glad you had a good experience, sorry that there is a history that makes us question posts. 



TickDoc said:


> Noobs come over there all the time to ask quetions or seek advice, and they are never regarded as shills. Their opinions are respected and their questions are answered.
> 
> Shame it isn't the same over here.


I think that the shills thing only has to do with the BD statements due to their history here. Everyone here has been more than accepting of new members so don't let some of the statements here disway you.


----------



## bikesdirect

Dave Hickey said:


> And noobs are welcome here too.....In case you think other cycling forums are different, I offer the following
> 
> http://forums.bicycling.com/eve/forums/a/tpc/f/612104717/m/4371005133
> I
> http://www.bikeforums.net/showthread.php?t=326813
> 
> It's not RBR folks.....If it walks like a duck.....


David

Just so you can learn something about ducks

Noone in my company has ever posted anything on bicycling.com
in fact, I do not think anyone has even ever gone on the site
{BTW - that site gets almost zero traffic}

I post on BF all the time; as myself
noone from my company has posted there either
other than ID'ed as an employee
BD enjoys a great relationship with most on BF
except two bike dealers

You know from personal experience the service and value that BD provides
You need to consider how many 'anti BD' shills that type of competition generates from LBS and road reps. Those are the ducks you should think about the walk on.


actual new members, who are called names when asking about BD, get turned off on RBR more than they do on us 

That is my take on it

mike
,


----------



## shabbasuraj

BD does not accept Canadian credit cards (even if you ship to a US address)..

.....that is another thing that is 'bad' about BD.


----------



## Export A

shabbasuraj said:


> BD does not accept Canadian credit cards (even if you ship to a US address)..
> 
> .....that is another thing that is 'bad' about BD.



Maybe they don't want 1.03 for each buck :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:


----------



## bikesdirect

shabbasuraj said:


> BD does not accept Canadian credit cards (even if you ship to a US address)..
> 
> .....that is another thing that is 'bad' about BD.


Nor do we except credit cards from england, france, spain, germany, mexico, or new zealand.

however, we sell plenty of bikes that are shipped to each of those countries - and including Canada. But we only take payment in a way that can not end up increasing costs for our USA customers.


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## shabbasuraj

bikesdirect said:


> Nor do we except credit cards from england, france, spain, germany, mexico, or new zealand.
> 
> however, we sell plenty of bikes that are shipped to each of those countries - and including Canada. But we only take payment in a way that can not end up increasing costs for our USA customers.


Hence it is 'bad'... 

...it is all relative.


----------



## Lifelover

Peter_Klim said:


> *What's bad about BikesDirect bikes???*


I'll quote Lance on this one.

"It's not about the Bike"

The bikes are fine, it's the management that is in question.


Ask yourself this.

Why don't the other internet sellers (Ibex, Leader, RSCycles, Nashbar, etc.) stir up this much hate and discontent? They sell bikes that offer the same exact benefits (value) but have all the same exact pitfalls.


BD does not offer anything that is such a great deal that it is worth the risk of dealing with a comapny that gets so much bad rap. Even if the bad rap is a very small percentage of the total buyers.

Can you link some of the comments (from the last year or 2) where people have said the frames were POS.

I don't recall that many and I read them all.


----------



## Peter_Klim

Hi All. I’m the OP and this is my first reply to my own thread. First thing I want to say is thank you all for being civilized in your responses J

My question, and the title of the thread, is “What's bad about BikesDirect bikes???”
Not “What is bad about BD?” but the bike itself. Most replies are about “possible” shrillers, the bike shop, the rights to the “Motobecane” name and so on…but hardly any replies that talk about the bike itself. And the few replies about the bike itself - not a single negative thing about it.

To the ones who suggested I do a search to find my answer…I’ve been up every night for the last 2 weeks researching bikes, and about 90% of the research was on the BD bikes. Some nights till 3AM in the morning! And besides a few isolated incidents about mediocre paint jobs - I found absolutely nothing wrong/bad about the bikes themselves. To reiterate, I mean wrong/bad as in regards to the build/quality of the bikes for the selling price of their bikes - in other words I am asking if their bikes are or are not of a good “value”? I did place an order 2 days ago on a Mercier, and from reading replies to this thread I feel assured I will not have any buyer’s remorse. So I want to thank everyone for their input. Thanks!

Pete


----------



## mandovoodoo

We've had 3 BD bikes. One we sold for a pretty good amount used. Two we've stripped the full DA components off and put on eBay bought used Carbon frames that fit better. And sold the frames for about 20% of the bike cost! 

So I've got an Italian carbon bike w/ DA - Am. Classic stuff on it for $1800. And she has a Tarmac Comp full DA including wheels for about $2000. Can't argue with the good buy aspect for the components!

And just like an LBS bike, a full tear down and rebuild is in order for any bike I ride. I like to know what's going on! Chase all the threads, face everything, etc.


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## Henry Porter

threesportsinone said:


> Same praise- ("and I can always swap the components on to a diff frame because I got such a great deal," BUT noobs don't actually know how hard it is to swap all the components from one frame to another.)
> .


How hard is this? I'm a newb at working on bike and I'm curious as to how difficult this is. It sounds like it might actually be a good thing to do to know everything.


----------



## djg

tconrady said:


> Wrong!
> 
> For the most part I agree with you post. However, there is still marketing capital in those names and that is where I have the biggest problem. If there wasn't, then why didn't BD make up a new manufacture name instead of purchasing those, eh? Let's put it this way. Say someone offers to sell you a new Porsche for 50k that used to be 100k. You'd be stoked.....rolling around enjoying you new Porsche. Now, what if someone told you that Porsche was no longer the same company that made your car, rather it was bought out and the manufacturing was being done by Kia/Hyundai. The 50k you spent is now gonna make you feel pretty hosed even though the engine may be sound, the interior is nice, and the logos still look like a Porsche. Nobody has really slammed the BD frames to my knowledge. However, to the average consumer who isn't really paying attention, they think it is the same Motobecane and Mercier producing the bikes and that is just misleading IMHO.
> 
> Change the names and I have no problems at all. Further, if they're that great a value, then the name change shouldn't matter at all, right???


I'm not sure how on earth this shows that my comment was wrong. As I pointed out, the trademarks are divorced from particular companies -- from the original designers, builders, factories, companies of origin. Hence, the marque tells you nothing in particular about the quality of the frame. 

And sure, somebody thinks there's marketing value to the name, that's why somebody bought the name and stuck it on the down tube. I don't know that anybody in particular is getting "hosed." I doubt that the "average consumer" is expecting anything in particular out of a Motobecane (which produced some nice bikes and some so-so bikes, but not so far as I recall anything really amazing, in the '70s and '80s). My guess is that for most customers the name has value (and has value for the vendor) in that it rings a bell and carries some basically positive connotation. But my guess is also that they're not expecting any particular thing that they're not getting. FWIW, I had a Masi years ago and whenever I see one of the new Asian aluminum Masis I think something to the effect of "no, that ain't it," but I doubt anybody is expecting a frame built by Faliero (may he rest in peace) or Confente (likewise) when he buys one. Is it a rip off?


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## shabbasuraj

SCC said:


> Maybe they don't want 1.03 for each buck :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:


OT ALERT...


ya man... tell me about it...

That BD BOX O' BIKE PARTS is even cheaper now with the Loonie destroying the Greenback... O well.. BD will never benefit.


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## Christine

I bought a bike from BD recently, and am extremely satisfied. Why?

1) I changed the size at the last minute, and they were able to accomodate the change easily.
2) Bike was shipped within a reasonable time frame.
3) When I posted questions here online, the BD folks responded in the thread (just like they did above.) Didn't even have to seek them out!
4) Bike was mostly assembled (granted, as a track bike there wasn't much fuss!)
5) Customer service e-mailed me a couple of very helpful links, including a YouTube video showing how to assemble certain parts.
6) Bike was cheap and yet frame/components are just fine. Upgraded the tires so that I could ride it in the street and not just the track. That's it so far.

Anyway I don't neglect the local shops- hell, I rarely order from catalogs. But they had exactly the bike I wanted which isn't easy to find at the shops, especially not so cheaply. I'm making very little money right now and would not have been experiencing the joy of this bike w/o BD.

Should the bike spontaneously combust or something, I'll be sure to post about it. For now, zero complaints.


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## mandovoodoo

Henry Porter said:


> How hard is this? I'm a newb at working on bike and I'm curious as to how difficult this is. It sounds like it might actually be a good thing to do to know everything.


Not too hard. Probably the hardest thing is having access to the tools to check alignment, chase threads, face the surfaces, etc. Then there's a good deal of fine detailing in setup of everything. I don't know where one gets that knowledge. The basics aren't difficult, the devil is in the details.


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## bikesdirect

Peter_Klim said:


> Hi All. I’m the OP and this is my first reply to my own thread. First thing I want to say is thank you all for being civilized in your responses J
> 
> My question, and the title of the thread, is “What's bad about BikesDirect bikes???”
> Not “What is bad about BD?” but the bike itself. Most replies are about “possible” shrillers, the bike shop, the rights to the “Motobecane” name and so on…but hardly any replies that talk about the bike itself. And the few replies about the bike itself - not a single negative thing about it.
> 
> To the ones who suggested I do a search to find my answer…I’ve been up every night for the last 2 weeks researching bikes, and about 90% of the research was on the BD bikes. Some nights till 3AM in the morning! And besides a few isolated incidents about mediocre paint jobs - I found absolutely nothing wrong/bad about the bikes themselves. To reiterate, I mean wrong/bad as in regards to the build/quality of the bikes for the selling price of their bikes - in other words I am asking if their bikes are or are not of a good “value”? I did place an order 2 days ago on a Mercier, and from reading replies to this thread I feel assured I will not have any buyer’s remorse. So I want to thank everyone for their input. Thanks!
> 
> Pete


Pete, thanks for your order

And thanks for the post; this has been an interesting post. I hope you do not mind, but I looked up your order and shipment. As you should know from the tracking email my staff sends; the bike is on the way and should arrive on Oct 23rd.

I think you will find as many customers do; the bike you receive is better than advertised. 

I really hope you post the details of this transaction. Include pictures if you can for the nay-sayers. And of course a ride report is great; but I know how this bike rides as we have sold thousands of units using this frame. You will love it.

If you ever need anything, you can always PM me here or email on the site.
Thanks again
Mike.


----------



## teoteoteo

Jim Nazium said:


> Please do continue, that was farking hilariouse.


On request, a few more things most people don't know about BD...

They never wave back at you while riding. 

Serve baby whale blubber in their cafeteria.

Have a series of political dictator driven models like the Kim Jong il, and Idi Amin....don't even get me started on their serial killer models in development.

They own a mini storage chain in iraq and house wmd's 

They eat deviled eggs and broccoli before attending church. 

Their charity efforts include Lawn Darts give-Aways, Abandoned Refridgerators for Toddlers, and Catapults for Kids. 

They ALWAYS feed the animals at the zoo and they throw poo at the monkeys. 

They invented any prank that involves a stinky digit or object waved in close proximity to ones face (some folks call it the poop 'stache prank) 

Infilitrate IBD's with an army of undertrained smart aleck youth. 

Wear 15 year old thin, see through lycra on group rides. 

Always hand you a knife BLADE first. 

Try always think "Inside the the box," and how to work "Harder Not Smarter,"

Secretly hid a testosterone patch in Floyd's chamois. 

Always jump on your wheel when you pass them, but won't ever take a pull. 

Always answer any question that starts "Can I ask you a personal question" with "Oh, about the size of babies arm holding an apple,".then they laugh an walk away. 

Thank you Cleveland....I love this town, don't forget your bartenders and wiatresses.


----------



## denmikseb

*My experience with this forum and BD.*



California L33 said:


> I have no information about the user one way or another, or whether BD has ever engaged in using sock puppets, but sheep dipping a sock puppet- creating numerous accounts, letting them sit, posting a few (not too many because it takes too long) posts- isn't new or difficult. I'd be much more confident if BD supporters had long histories, but in their defense, a lot of the people they sell to are new to cycling.


I have been cycling for many years on yard sale bikes, and had not kept up with the newest bike technology, so I am a newbie in that respect. I recently started posting here because I started to get more interested in a new bike for fitness and long distance riding, where previously I was mostly a commuter. I can go to any of my 5 local LBS's and check out, even ride, their offerings, and be turned off by the prices they want for a higher end bike (I was tired of riding low-end used bikes). Or, I can search the web and magazine ads for good deals on a new bike, at a price I can afford. Enter BikesDirect. I saw their ads, I saw their prices, I read their forum on RBR. (EDIT: Actually the Motobecane-Mercier forum). Everything looked good and the customers seemed very satisfied. So I asked a couple questions on this forum and was met with "their frames are junk" and "shills" (not directed at me personally, but I'm sure some thought I was one). Others came to Moto's and BD's defense. Claiming the frames were fine and excellent components. So, what was I to think? The polarization for or against BD was VERY CONFUSING. So, I ride a Felt. I paid a little more than I wanted to get the features I wanted. If I knew then what I know now about BD, I would be riding a Motobecane. So, apparantly there were some "credibility" problems with BD in the past? Possibly so, but that was before my time on these forums. I haven't read about any real customer dissatisfaction that has not been corrected (to my knowledge) in the last several months. In fact, the last gripe I read about a customer was complaining about air in his hyd brake lines. Some told him that was no big deal, kind of like brake cables needing to be adjusted when you get a new bike. The OP later replied that BD offered to give him $40 to get them bled or to send him 2 bleed kits! Nothing wrong with that, IMO. If BD burned someone in the past I can understand memories are long, but I am not dealing in the past when I am asking about a possible bike purchase today. What about BD... TODAY? In, fact, lets not beat around the bush any more. Are they a reputable company or not, TODAY?


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## Henry Porter

denmikseb said:


> What about BD... TODAY? In, fact, lets not beat around the bush any more. Are they a reputable company or not, TODAY?


I don't know and I doubt many of those who are critical do as well. For me, they were disreputable in the past and with other choices, why risk it?


----------



## Oversane

Peter, nothing bad about the bikes. They are essentially generic cookie cutter frames with middle-of-the road geometries. For the most part, there is nothing special about them. Most, but not all, of the BD line will work as entry level bikes. The new Pedal Force frame on the on the Century Pro and the light weight Le Champion SL may be the exceptions. There is local guy who races his Le Champion SL here where I live. He's been racing a lot longer than have I and he certainly knew what he was doing when he bought the SL.

My Le Champion now has over 3700 miles on it. I've had no problems with the bike and why should I with its full Ultegra set up? It's only been tuned professionally once. I entered about 15 races with it this past season and expect to do the same next racing season. 

Enjoy your Mercier. And there's only one way to do that.

P.S. About BD's use of European name brands. I worked as a bicycle messenger in NYC in the late 1970's. I went down the street to the local bike shop and chose a British made Windsor over a French made Motobecane because the Moto had alloy wheels and I didn't think they'd hold up well on the rough streets of Manhattan. I had that bike for about 12 years. One day I flipped it over to do some work on it and noticed a small sticker on the bottom bracket. It read "Hecho en Mexico."


----------



## denmikseb

Bocephus Jones II said:


> Why do most of the people singing the praises of BD have less than 10 posts here? Makes you wonder.
> 
> Mods...please move this advertorial to the BD forum so I can go on ignoring it. Please?


Probably because most people with less than 10 posts are not the highly experienced and knowleable cyclist you are and thus will be more open minded about the different brands and not be beholding to their "favorite" brand that they have spent lots of their hard earned money on, so it would be impossible to admit a less expensive bike could be as good. Does that sentence make sense? Neither does insinuating someone is a shill just because they don't have mega posts. Some of us are new. And some of us have a life and don't spend all of our free time on a bike or in front of a computer. Sorry for being such a heretic.


----------



## denmikseb

tconrady said:


> Wrong!
> 
> For the most part I agree with you post. However, there is still marketing capital in those names and that is where I have the biggest problem. If there wasn't, then why didn't BD make up a new manufacture name instead of purchasing those, eh? Let's put it this way. Say someone offers to sell you a new Porsche for 50k that used to be 100k. You'd be stoked.....rolling around enjoying you new Porsche. Now, what if someone told you that Porsche was no longer the same company that made your car, rather it was bought out and the manufacturing was being done by Kia/Hyundai. The 50k you spent is now gonna make you feel pretty hosed even though the engine may be sound, the interior is nice, and the logos still look like a Porsche. Nobody has really slammed the BD frames to my knowledge. However, to the average consumer who isn't really paying attention, they think it is the same Motobecane and Mercier producing the bikes and that is just misleading IMHO.
> 
> Change the names and I have no problems at all. Further, if they're that great a value, then the name change shouldn't matter at all, right???


Do you have a problem with Jeep? Kentucky fried chicken? Just a couple of the thousands of companies that have sold their names (but NOT changed them)! Why don't you ask them to change their names? They would tell you where to go in an instant. So why should Motobecane change its name? I recall from my younger years, Motobecane was just a so-so brand. The newer management has greatly improved the product, so how would sticking with the original name be unfair to the consumer? You may say the consumer is not getting the same Motobecane of years ago, and that would be true. But if I went out and bought a Trek, Specialized, or any High Zoot brand I wouldn't expect it to be the same as it was years ago. I would hope the new one was improved over the old one. So, WHAT'S THE BIG DEAL ABOUT THE NAME? Your analogy of the Porsche is flawed. It implies the old Motobecane company was better and the new one is somehow inferior. Not true. The old Moto was never a Porsche in the first place, but the new one is an improvement over the old.


----------



## moab63

*I think we need a poll from actual*

customers, not gossipy, third or fourth party accounts. Because I'm guessing that all the people that posted saying that they received good service and a good product can't be all wrong.

Because if you screw me, I will let everyone know. But I do understand that things can go wrong, including shipping an such.

I'm planning on buying from them again, I have checked all the namebrand(taiwan)build models and there is no way to justify two weeks or so of salary more to get them.

To be honest the only thing that I don't like about most of their bikes is the colors 
The inmortal is 1700.00 and the century is 1300.00
With specs that nothing can match, even when you get the bike at cost at your local LBS. I already checked.


----------



## denmikseb

Bocephus Jones II said:


> why isn't this in the BD forum?


What BD forum?


----------



## Bocephus Jones II

denmikseb said:


> What BD forum?


Motobecane, Mercier forum...where it is now--like it should have been from the start. BD is the only retailer I know that sells the brand so it's essentially their forum. Have fun talking about the bikes. I'm out.


----------



## kk4df

threesportsinone said:


> The problem is that it is so hard to tell "actual customers" from your lackeys. They're just so similar:
> low post count- (meaning nothing other than that just a statistic)
> Same praise- ("and I can always swap the components on to a diff frame because I got such a great deal," BUT noobs don't actually know how hard it is to swap all the components from one frame to another.)


Sorry for the low post count on these forums (=20), but check my posts on the "other" bikeforum and you'll see plenty (=175).

I may be a noob. I rode several years as a youngster, only over the past 1.5 years (about 7000 miles) as an adult, so probably still a noob to many.

But I did swap all the components from my existing bike when I ordered a new CF frame from bikesdirect. I considered it both an education for me, as well as a way to save a LOT of money versus buying a whole new bike from my LBS. In this case, BD really comes through for me.



bikesdirect said:


> Include pictures if you can for the nay-sayers. And of course a ride report is great;


Here's the picture:










And I can't say enough positive things about the improvements in the ride. I have not ridden many of those high dollar bikes that some of you have ridden and which I cannot afford. But with the new CF frame and the Ultegra Hollowtech crankset, the ride is much stiffer, especially on the hill climbs. The first time I rode my time trial (TT) route, I gained about 0.8 MPH on the new bike. My TT route has a lot of hills, and the real advantage I've seen is climbing the hills. I knew my old frame and crank were pretty flexy, but didn't know how much difference it made until I got the new bike put together. Several friends who ride with me on a regular basis have told me 1) what a nice looking bike I have now and 2) how much faster I ride on the new bike. It has been a more comfortable ride for me than the steel frame I was riding, especially over the rougher sections of pavement.


----------



## Lifelover

moab63 said:


> The inmortal is 1700.00 and the century is 1300.00
> With specs that nothing can match, even when you get the bike at cost at your local LBS. I already checked.



This is such BS!

Yes BD offers good deals on decent bikes. No question.

However they are not so good that "nothing can match" it.


Performance almost always has a 10% off deal and with the 10% credit for Team Performance members they almost always have a similar bike that is priced as good as BD. If you happen to have a Performance shop nearby you can even test ride the bike and have it assembled and not pay for shipping.

After Discounts:

The Scattante CFR is around 1600









The Peloton Pro is around 1700









The Peloton is around 1300









Even Colorado Cyclist (never considered cheap) has a full Ultegra , CF bike with Easton Circuits for 1800










Felt has a new line of CF bike that are similar to the century in Design. The Z35 with a 105/Ultegra mix has a MRSP of 1900. They are available locally for close to 1500. The look much nicer than the century.










The BD aluminum bikes are even easier to find equivalent pricing on.

Maybe I'm just lucky but I can always find bikes locally that are marked down to very similar pricing as online.


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## moab63

*Yeah but look at the whole spec sheet*

not some mix of 105, and a front derrailler ultegra with some no name wheels or brakes and the 8% tax. The performance stuff is much higher and at the shops the selection actually sucks. By the way I do have the performace membership, but I still buy at the LBS lots of times.

Hell I even bought from the competitive cyclist site, among others not evryone is a noob. Is all about what I get for my money.

Hey but to each his own


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## denmikseb

Lifelover said:


> This is such BS!
> 
> Yes BD offers good deals on decent bikes. No question.
> 
> However they are not so good that "nothing can match" it.
> 
> 
> Performance almost always has a 10% off deal and with the 10% credit for Team Performance members they almost always have a similar bike that is priced as good as BD. If you happen to have a Performance shop nearby you can even test ride the bike and have it assembled and not pay for shipping.
> 
> After Discounts:
> 
> The Scattante CFR is around 1600
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The Peloton Pro is around 1700
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The Peloton is around 1300
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Even Colorado Cyclist (never considered cheap) has a full Ultegra , CF bike with Easton Circuits for 1800
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Felt has a new line of CF bike that are similar to the century in Design. The Z35 with a 105/Ultegra mix has a MRSP of 1900. They are available locally for close to 1500. The look much nicer than the century.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The BD aluminum bikes are even easier to find equivalent pricing on.
> 
> Maybe I'm just lucky but I can always find bikes locally that are marked down to very similar pricing as online.


I can't quite read all the markings on the components on that Felt, but I would bet they are about like my 2 year old Felt. House bars, house stem (very heavy), house seatpost, house saddle, no name brakes (they do look pretty), I don't know about the wheels but mine were crap.


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## bikesdirect

denmikseb said:


> I can't quite read all the markings on the components on that Felt, but I would bet they are about like my 2 year old Felt. House bars, house stem (very heavy), house seatpost, house saddle, no name brakes (they do look pretty), I don't know about the wheels but mine were crap.


Yes, it is true FELT uses lots of house brand parts to save money. And you need to watch what wheels you are getting on any bike you buy {on many bikes the wheels are worth more OEM than the frame}

BUT Felt uses CF frames from ADK, same as Bottecchia and Century Model Motobecanes. We all know ADK frames are very good. Heck, some Kestrel models are from ADK. I think everyone knows ADK carbon fiber frames are top quality.


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## bikesdirect

Bocephus Jones II said:


> Motobecane, Mercier forum...where it is now--like it should have been from the start. BD is the only retailer I know that sells the brand so it's essentially their forum. Have fun talking about the bikes. I'm out.


You seem to be a silly guy

First, the fact that you know of no other retailers that sell Motobecane does not make it true.

And what about other brands that we might sell? If we are selling Surly, does that mean the Surly forum is now a BD forum? Makes no sense. What happens to other brand forums as we pickup more brands? It is a silly agrument.


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## kk4df

Mike,

Just keep doing what you're doing. It's working very well for many of us.


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## bikesdirect

kk4df said:


> Mike,
> 
> Just keep doing what you're doing. It's working very well for many of us.


Thanks; I will

Some silly members on forums do not see the difference between a 105 bike with Tektro brakes and a Full Ultegra Bike. Some posters want to play like a house branded kalloy bars, stem, and post are the same as Ritchey WCS level. A few play like wheels built with JoyTech loose ball hubs are as nice as Ritchey Pro, Ritchey WCS, or Shimano Ultegra level wheels.

But there are plenty of buyers that know how to read specs. That is why we have a hard time keeping most our bikes in stock. Spec for spec, we will always stay ahead of the industry as that is part of our mission.

thanks for your support

mike


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## Bocephus Jones II

bikesdirect said:


> You seem to be a silly guy
> 
> First, the fact that you know of no other retailers that sell Motobecane does not make it true.
> 
> And what about other brands that we might sell? If we are selling Surly, does that mean the Surly forum is now a BD forum? Makes no sense. What happens to other brand forums as we pickup more brands? It is a silly agrument.


Nice. A business making fun of potential clients on a public forum. You've shown your true colors. What a silly business.


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## aliensporebomb

Remember the guy here a while back who bought a department store Schwinn and did a 
"owners report" from the first few months of his riding it? Someone should do that here.

I actually did see a BD Motobecane locally unlocked leaning against a wooden post, 
brand new shining in the sun off an MUT I was using as a connector from one suburb 
to another and there was no one in sight anywhere near it.

I rode a little further and came back and it was gone. Did I really see it?


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## thedips

bikesdirect said:


> Thanks; I will
> 
> Some silly members on forums do not see the difference between a 105 bike with Tektro brakes and a Full Ultegra Bike. Some posters want to play like a house branded kalloy bars, stem, and post are the same as Ritchey WCS level. A few play like wheels built with JoyTech loose ball hubs are as nice as Ritchey Pro, Ritchey WCS, or Shimano Ultegra level wheels.
> 
> But there are plenty of buyers that know how to read specs. That is why we have a hard time keeping most our bikes in stock. Spec for spec, we will always stay ahead of the industry as that is part of our mission.
> 
> thanks for your support
> 
> mike




i personally wouldnt purchase a bike from your site.. but i totally respect what you are doing... its very hard to always have to defend your company...especially on the internet on some forum... but giving your voice out is 100000 steps ahead of other manufacturers and stores and dealers that you can never get a response from.. youve come out and admit to some faults but are always trying to make up for it and provide a competitive product at an affordable price... 


on my last critical mass ride ive seen plenty of WINDOR HOURS and KILO TTs everyone singing praises and people were able to customize them to their own personal tastes... selling the bike to alot of other riders who dont post on an internet forum.... to bad for every one bad thing you do seems to cancel out like the 1000 good things that you have accomplished


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## My Own Private Idaho

I have 25 names on my ignore list, all of whom post exclusively or almost exclusively in favor of BikesDirect. Some of them even seem to search on BD brand names, and will pop up in other forums to defend the company's honor if one of said brands is brought up. They almost never post on another topic. They never post about rides, never post with general advice or questions, never have anything of much interest to add. They also don't seem to know the lingo around here, although many claim to have lurked for quite some time.

I have no comment on the quality of BD's products. I'm sure the bikes work as advertised, and whatnot. The company just seems sleazy, so I won't deal with them. This is not a criticism of the product, just the method of doing business.


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## bwana

denmikseb said:


> Do you have a problem with Jeep? Kentucky fried chicken? Just a couple of the thousands of companies that have sold their names (but NOT changed them)! Why don't you ask them to change their names? They would tell you where to go in an instant. So why should Motobecane change its name? I recall from my younger years, Motobecane was just a so-so brand. The newer management has greatly improved the product, so how would sticking with the original name be unfair to the consumer? You may say the consumer is not getting the same Motobecane of years ago, and that would be true. But if I went out and bought a Trek, Specialized, or any High Zoot brand I wouldn't expect it to be the same as it was years ago. I would hope the new one was improved over the old one. So, WHAT'S THE BIG DEAL ABOUT THE NAME? Your analogy of the Porsche is flawed. It implies the old Motobecane company was better and the new one is somehow inferior. Not true. The old Moto was never a Porsche in the first place, but the new one is an improvement over the old.


Well, I have no problem with the name. I wondered why it was being used, and Mike explained it in another thread (basically, name recognition has actually helped sales). BUT, this Motobecane is is no way related to the French one from years ago. That is now MBK, whereas BD just purchased a name (not a recipe, or a factory, or employees, which is the case with the companies you cited). This company has zero lineage from the original (again, unlike those you cited). That is all the poster you were responding to was trying to get across. The current company is not a manufacturer, it is a reseller. Does it matter? Maybe to some, not to me. 
In the 70s I purchased two French Motos, but I don't feel like someone has besmirched anything sacred by using the name, because as you point out, they weren't anything really special (I do however object to the Masi name being used on the current generic bikes). Beyond the fact that technology has advanced on all bikes, the biggest advantage of the current Motos over the originals is that the new ones don't use that damned French threading. 
Would I buy a BD Moto or Mercier? I might, if I ever decide to buy new again. It would depend on what they were offering at that time, and what deals the locals had. Because the reason I bought the two Motos in the first place was they were the best deal I could find at the time for the features I wanted. Same reason I bought a Centurion to replace the last Moto I owned. I am very much a capitalist consumer.


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## bikesdirect

My Own Private Idaho said:


> I have 25 names on my ignore list, all of whom post exclusively or almost exclusively in favor of BikesDirect. Some of them even seem to search on BD brand names, and will pop up in other forums to defend the company's honor if one of said brands is brought up. They almost never post on another topic. They never post about rides, never post with general advice or questions, never have anything of much interest to add. They also don't seem to know the lingo around here, although many claim to have lurked for quite some time.
> 
> I have no comment on the quality of BD's products. I'm sure the bikes work as advertised, and whatnot. The company just seems sleazy, so I won't deal with them. This is not a criticism of the product, just the method of doing business.


That is very interesting, I never see that. Of course, I only visit 3 forum sites; RBR, MTBR, and BF. On those sites I see hundreds of our customers posting about all kinds of things; rides, polictics, traffic, other brands, etc. Some ride reports and such started by our customers have gone on for months and hundreds of posts. 

But I think you certainly should not read things you are not interested in.

As for a business being sleazy; I think there are some who would take issue with every business on earth. And each has their own idea on this non-objective standard.

Some think it is Sleazy for a company to buy a brand name and use it on their future products. Others see no problem with it.

Some find it sleazy for a bicycle builder to buy every item in a bike from Asia; ship them to Italy for painting and decaling; and then applying a 'made in italy' decal to them. Others do not find it a problem.

Some find it sleazy for a retailer to pull country of origin stickers off all their floor stock and redirect any question of country of origin. Others do not find it a problem.

Some find it sleazy to mark a product 'Made in the USA" when the content is way under 50% from North America. There are those that find it offensive and lobby congress over this practice.The 'rules' many agrue are 98% in order to earn "MADE IN USA" status. Others do not find it a problem that an item that is 80% from Asia says 'Made in USA'

Some find it sleazy for a company to restrict competition and keep prices high; to benefit their business partners at the expensive of consumers. Others do not find it a problem.


I think sleazy is a fairly non-objective measure. Based on my evaluation; BD is one of the least sleazy companies in the entire bicycle industry. And I happen to know the enternal workings of most companies in our industry within the USA. However, the truth is sometimes in the eye of the beholder; especially when there is no object measure.


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## covenant

bikesdirect said:


> Based on my evaluation; BD is one of the least sleazy companies in the entire bicycle industry.


naturally....

But one look at your BBB rating paints another picture to potential customers.

I just did a quick BBB search on all the bicycle retailers I could think of off the top of my head and the only one with an unsatisfactory rating was you. 

Is there anyway to clear the unsat rating?

*edited for clarity*


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## bikesdirect

covenant said:


> naturally....
> 
> But one look at your BBB rating paints another picture to potential customers.
> Is there anyway to clear the unsat rating?


I am unsure if you are a salesperson for BBB, so please do not take this personally.

I have zero respect for the BBB. It would be easy to lay out a little cash and keep a clean BBB record. But I do not play that game.

Our customers know what value we offer and they tell their friends. Some even post it online. This is what has our business growing at a rate higher than we can supply. Maybe if I had more product than I could sell, I would be desparate enough to deal with the BBB {but I hope I would not be}

I normally do not rag on other businesses; but I find the BBB makes me sick. And that started with their first sales call to sell me their 'services'. Even with some posters being liars and nay-sayers; I prefer forums to the BBB.

And the BBB does not consider transaction ratios
If a customer wants real objective data of a seller; ebay feedback system flats beats the BBB hands down!

just one guy's opinion.


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## tennis5

Peter_Klim said:


> There's a whole lotta BD/Motobecane/Mercier/ect bashing going on but none of these bashers have stated why their frames suck.
> 
> Stating its a "POS", "not worth it" or any other vague opinions doesn't really prove anything. What evidence is there that they're not good??
> 
> Is the material they're made of garbage? Is the frame too heavy? Are the welds crappy? Do the frames bend? crack? melt? disintegrate while riding in a sudden rainstorm???


Peter...this is a dead horse that has been beaten over and over again, but I feel I should post my 2 cents just to voice...

There is nothing wrong with the bikes, they come as spec'd, mine rides great, I have had zero problems with it except the seat was uncomfortable... which I switched to a Terry Fly. Mike was great to work with...customer service was not so good at getting back to me, but mike has since worked on that...to which I applaud him. A lot of the posters who are anti-BD are simply carrying on what they have heard...not what they know. I have been accused of being a shill...the first time I was accused of being one, I had to go look up the word...had no idea of the defined term. I have been accused of the same a couple of times in "The Lounge" by people who have been here less time than I...just shows their ignorance in my estimation and there is plenty of that on this forum (most of the BD bashers have never owned one). Contrarily, there are also plenty of intelligent posters here who dont ride a BD bike, realize BD made some mistakes in the beginning but have remedied those and are trying to provide a good value for the consumer. BD provides a great deal for some people...they may not be for everyone but for some (including me), they provide an avenue into road biking at a good value. And that is what this thread SHOULD be all about...not shill episodes that happened 2-3 years ago. End rant  Now let us know how your bike rides! Enjoy...Chris


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## kk4df

bikesdirect said:


> I am unsure if you are a salesperson for BBB, so please do not take this personally.
> 
> I have zero respect for the BBB. It would be easy to lay out a little cash and keep a clean BBB record. But I do not play that game.


I went to the BBB site to try and post some good experience about my purchase, but all they seem to take is complaints. If anyone can point me to where I can post positive experiences with the BBB, I would appreciate it.


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## covenant

kk4df said:


> I went to the BBB site to try and post some good experience about my purchase, but all they seem to take is complaints. If anyone can point me to where I can post positive experiences with the BBB, I would appreciate it.


BBB is a complaint and dispute resolution resource between consumers and businesses. You can't really compare it to a feedback system like ebay and the like.


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## bikesdirect

covenant said:


> BBB is a complaint and dispute resolution resource between consumers and businesses. You can't really compare it to a feedback system like ebay and the like.


You are correct! BBB can not be compared to any useful means of company evaluation. It is not designed to give any meaningful information to buyers. Yet it holds itself out to be. That is what is so wrong about the entire system; other than the fact that some of their salespeople are close to high pressure extortionists. If you have never run into one of these; you are lucky.

It is competely useless to shoppers to know about complaints without any indication of transaction count. Is 4 complaints bad out of 100,000 transactions? Is 1 complaint out of 100 transactions good? Well you can not decide; as BBB does not provide that info.

Ebay feedback system is way better for buyers and sellers. Open infomation and motivation for good transactions. That is why so many more people count on Ebay rather than BBB. BBB is an outdated and a much less than useful system in today's envirnoment.

again; that is just my opinion


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## Peter_Klim

Hi Mike,

Sure enough my bike arrived today just as you said it would! I assembled it (it was such a piece of cake) and since it's dark, I'll try it out on the trainer and then continue tweaking the seat and bar positions. I'll post a new thread once I set it up properly. 

Thanks for offering any help!

Pete



bikesdirect said:


> Pete, thanks for your order
> 
> And thanks for the post; this has been an interesting post. I hope you do not mind, but I looked up your order and shipment. As you should know from the tracking email my staff sends; the bike is on the way and should arrive on Oct 23rd.
> 
> I think you will find as many customers do; the bike you receive is better than advertised.
> 
> I really hope you post the details of this transaction. Include pictures if you can for the nay-sayers. And of course a ride report is great; but I know how this bike rides as we have sold thousands of units using this frame. You will love it.
> 
> If you ever need anything, you can always PM me here or email on the site.
> Thanks again
> Mike.


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## rbmatl

*I have one with no problems*

I have a MB Grand Sport/sprint....Ultegra with the cheapie FSA cranks...Frankly, for $799 is the damn deal of the century. I ride for fun and excersize and this bike has been excellent. I tend to agree with may posters regarding the LBS. In Atlanta we probably have 15 LBS's with maybe 2-3 who know what they are doing.


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## My Own Private Idaho

Why dredge this up four months after the fact? Nice first post, by the way. I'm sure you don't work for BD.


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## tennis5

My Own Private Idaho said:


> I'm sure you don't work for BD.


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## Bocephus Jones II

My Own Private Idaho said:


> Why dredge this up four months after the fact? Nice first post, by the way. I'm sure you don't work for BD.


You could part it out on Ebay, throw away the frame and still make money!


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## samorg

*Mercier Serpens*



Peter_Klim said:


> There's a whole lotta BD/Motobecane/Mercier/ect bashing going on but none of these bashers have stated why their frames suck.
> 
> Stating its a "POS", "not worth it" or any other vague opinions doesn't really prove anything. What evidence is there that they're not good??
> 
> Is the material they're made of garbage? Is the frame too heavy? Are the welds crappy? Do the frames bend? crack? melt? disintegrate while riding in a sudden rainstorm???
> 
> I could understand if this were an "Audio" forum and we were discussing Bose speakers, but... I would like to know in particular, for the selling price of the complete bike and for the quality of the components you are getting, what is wrong with these frames? (and please sure to peruse this question before answering).


Had my Mercier Serpens for a year, ridden over 5000k in all conditions, mostly mountains. Nothing wrong with any of it. Frame is Columbus aluminum, welds perfect, Ritchey wheels true, Weighed 17.5 pounds as advertised. For the price it can't be beaten. I have swapped with friends with 2-4 thousand dollar ultegra "name brands". They all agree- great bike for the money. Recently my wife drove into the garage with bike on top of car in Yakima "lockjaw rack. The rack was totaled. The Subaru factory rack was knocked to the back. The bike has two small dents in frame where the jaws were attached. It still is true and rides perfectly. That frame took a massive impact and the welds are OK, stays are still straight.
For me BikesDirect was fine. It was on time and everything was as advertised. Assembly took twenty minutes. Lots of people are willing to pay double for something to satisfy their sense of brand loyalty.


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## cyclesport45

Brand loyalty... Over the years I've had Cannondale, LeMond, Panasonic, jumped from brand to brand, looking for the best value and features for my buck. Got a Moto Immortal Ice, by far the BEST value. And one nice bike! Bash away, I don't care.


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## Snakebitten

After reading this thread I now understand why my threads about my Moto Immortal Shill are being ignored I guess Im a shill for BD too. Reading this thread just killed alot of the excitement I had in picking up my first racing/road bike or bike of any kind in a long long time. It seems my time and energy will be better spent on another forum where I can actually ask a question about my MB bike and actually get an answer instead of silence or being suspected of being a shill for some hated bike mfg/seller. This is really pathetic. 

Should put a disclaimer on the first page of this site stating "all but BD customers are welcome". That would save both of us from wasting our time. Im not mad just disappointed at the same stupid politics that stinks up car forums. Dont get me wrong it sounds like BD has earned some of this from what Ive read but I care about my bike, not about BD's past practices. This is obviously not the forum to get any info about my bike. good forum and lots of great info on "other bikes". Its been fun folks. Ill just lurk from now on.


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## frank828

the "other" forum is worse. haha


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## covenant

Snakebitten said:


> After reading this thread I now understand why my threads about my Moto Immortal Shill are being ignored I guess Im a shill for BD too. Reading this thread just killed alot of the excitement I had in picking up my first racing/road bike or bike of any kind in a long long time. It seems my time and energy will be better spent on another forum where I can actually ask a question about my MB bike and actually get an answer instead of silence or being suspected of being a shill for some hated bike mfg/seller. This is really pathetic.
> 
> Should put a disclaimer on the first page of this site stating "all but BD customers are welcome". That would save both of us from wasting our time. Im not mad just disappointed at the same stupid politics that stinks up car forums. Dont get me wrong it sounds like BD has earned some of this from what Ive read but I care about my bike, not about BD's past practices. This is obviously not the forum to get any info about my bike. good forum and lots of great info on "other bikes". Its been fun folks. Ill just lurk from now on.


Nice going! This thread died 2 months ago...and now you bump it back to life. :thumbsup:
Are there any other BD flamefest threads you'd like at the top of the forum?


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## tennis5

covenant said:


> Nice going! This thread died 2 months ago...and now you bump it back to life. :thumbsup:
> Are there any other BD flamefest threads you'd like at the top of the forum?


died again 1 day ago..............until now :thumbsup:


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## hrumpole

I just bought one, and I will write more about this as the bike and I get better acquainted. But I think you have to understand something about the bike business. Bike dealers are territorially restricted. The major brands (trek and specialized for example) prohibit dealers from selling through the mail. What this means, as a practical matter, is that your LBS in VA does not have to compete on price with a bike store in CO. If you want the 200 dollar differece, you have to fly out to CO to get it (or have someone buy it and have it shipped). You can't ride the Trek in VA and then make the local dealer compete on price with the place in CO. (GM's Saturn brand does (or used to do) a similar thing with their "no haggle pricing"--each dealer has an exclusive territory). 

In this respect, the bike business is, at the moment, insulated from the kind of internet competition that most other businesses face--from liquor stores, to optometrists, to car sales. This territorial insulation enables the LBS to charge more than they otherwise would in the presence of naked national competition. It also enables them to pay their rent, mechanics, etc. That $1000 bike with Ultegra would cost $2K plus in a bike store (sales excepted) because of the higher operating costs. If I were an LBS owner, I would be concerned about the threat that BD's model poses towards traditional sales.

There is a risk to the consumer, but if the LBS is willing to do a decent tune when the bike comes in (and the consumer's willing to learn basic maintenance and repair), then it seems to me (thus far) to be a pretty good deal.


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## covenant

tennis5 said:


> died again 1 day ago..............until now :thumbsup:


but I've been labled as a BD-hater...so what do I care?


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## tennis5

covenant said:


> but I've been labled as a BD-hater...so what do I care?


Not sure...


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## covenant

tennis5 said:


> Not sure...


http://forums.roadbikereview.com/showpost.php?p=1086265&postcount=12


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## My Own Private Idaho

Nothing to see here, move along.


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## Snakebitten

covenant said:


> Nice going! This thread died 2 months ago...and now you bump it back to life. :thumbsup:
> Are there any other BD flamefest threads you'd like at the top of the forum?


Irony bites you in the azz It was dead for one day and you resurrected it lol. j/k See how many times I asked for info about my bike and it was previously ignored. It wasnt until I read this thread that I understood why. sorry noob here and didnt look for the date. Ive since been helped by some good info from some of the guys and I really appreciate it. No hard feelings. 

hrompole thanks for your insight. didnt know that at all. This is a whole new world for me and Ill just sit back and soak it all in.


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## ShillMyAss

Oh geez.........another BD thread? It actually lasted 3 pages this time?

To the original poster........

Notice my screen name? I went through hell on here with a couple hasty, trigger-happy mods, and members that were quick to point fingers. 
I can say without biased, as I work for a local bike shop, that there's no more wrong with Bikes Direct than any other internet source. 
The bottom line is that they're selling cookie-cutter Taiwanese frames, with regular components for very reasonable prices. I'd say it's a cheap way to get into a higher bracket component range, and then later buy a nicer frame.

That's pretty much my take on them. A guy I ride with has a Motobecane road bike.........sloppy welds, but damn nice components for dirt cheap. I don't know anything about the Windsor line, or whatever else they're selling.

I'd say go with what YOU feel you're getting the best deal on. Don't let a bunch of biased whiney crap push you one way or another.


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## covenant

ShillMyAss said:


> A guy I ride with has a Motobecane road bike.........sloppy welds, but damn nice components for dirt cheap.


Get a _carbon_ BD frame and you'll avoid those snotacular welds... 

btw...the welds aren't *that* bad on my Hour....


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## Coolhand

Snakebitten said:


> Irony bites you in the azz It was dead for one day and you resurrected it lol. j/k See how many times I asked for info about my bike and it was previously ignored. It wasnt until I read this thread that I understood why. sorry noob here and didnt look for the date. Ive since been helped by some good info from some of the guys and I really appreciate it. No hard feelings.
> 
> hrompole thanks for your insight. didnt know that at all. This is a whole new world for me and Ill just sit back and soak it all in.


Bones: He's dead Jim! You get his Tri-Corder and I take his wallet.


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