# Saving for a new group set…Ultegra 6800 or DA 9000? Personal thoughts?



## Typetwelve (Jul 1, 2012)

I'm currently running 105 5700 on my Specialized Tarmac and wanted, before the 2015 riding season, to get another group set.

Do I need it? No. I want it, so I'll get that one out of the way early.

Either way, I was dead set on a 6800 group until someone mentioned the 9000. Somehow that got me thinking and looking into it. I can save up the $$ by next spring to get a full mechanical DA set but I'm wondering if anyone here has had a chance to really dive into the two.

That I know of…no local shop around here is going to have a 9000 trimmed bike and even if they did, I'm sure they'd tell me to pound sand if I asked to test ride it.

I've read nothing but great things about the 6800 set but then again, I've read more times than that about DA being surgical in precision and next to perfection as you can get.

Either way…any thoughts would help. On a side note, I'm going to do a full kit with a Praxis conversion so I can run the Shimano crank as well...


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## MMsRepBike (Apr 1, 2014)

Our shop has a handful of 9000 equipped bikes, all available for test rides. We also have several 6870 bikes and 6800 bikes. That being said, I've ridden them all quite a bit myself and when I needed a new groupset a month or so ago I chose the 6800. Cost or rather value was my major determining factor.

In terms of 6800 vs. 9000 I personally really can't tell the difference. This is the first year I've been able to say that, which means the 6800 is the best Ultegra has ever been in my opinion. It's a huge step forward over the 6700 group. And being it's right about half the cost, it's a no brainer to me.

The only way I'd put 9000 on a bike is if it was a top of the line bike that it "should" be on, and even then I might just go 6800. I just installed a 6800 group on a brand new Dogma for a customer because they prefer the value and honestly the look too. I think caring about the nominal weight savings is a bit silly, leaving Ultegra as the go to option.


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## Typetwelve (Jul 1, 2012)

Thanks for the thoughts…its kind of confirming what I've read.

Time and time again, I've read that the 5700 and 6700 were pretty much the same give or take…and many did not like the 6700. The complaints/flaws I've personally seen in the thousands of miles I've put on my 5700 set. It's reliable, but flawed. I've already swapped to the 6800 brakes and the build/design difference is vast when comparing the 5700-6800.

I was dead set on the 6800 group until thinking about the 9000…but as time goes on, I'll probably just go with my gut and get the 6800…and save a ton of $$ in the process. too.


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## Dunbar (Aug 8, 2010)

Ultegra is basically half the cost of DA so I'd be hard pressed to spring for DA. But I wonder if it's worth it to install the DA 9000 derailleur cables on the otherwise full 6800 group. I have 9000 cables on my 5700 bike and it transformed the shift quality. I've read the 9000 cables have 10% less friction than anything else. The more miles I ride, the more I care most about shift quality and ergonomics and less about the bling factor. And I need to actually feel a difference in shift quality to justify group set upgrades.

To further complicate your decision, 105 goes to 5800 (11sp) next year. Based on my experience with 5700 vs 6700, 5800 will be the best value for your money. But the difference in price between 5800 and 6800 should only be $200-250 so it's a little bit easier to justify buying Ultegra than DA.


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## MMsRepBike (Apr 1, 2014)

Dunbar said:


> Ultegra is basically half the cost of DA so I'd be hard pressed to spring for DA. But I wonder if it's worth it to install the DA 9000 derailleur cables on the otherwise full 6800 group. I have 9000 cables on my 5700 bike and it transformed the shift quality. I've read the 9000 cables have 10% less friction than anything else. The more miles I ride, the more I care most about shift quality and ergonomics and less about the bling factor. And I need to actually feel a difference in shift quality to justify group set upgrades.


6800 cables inherited the same exact construction of the 9000 cables. They too are the new polymer coated ones, it's just that there's less polymer wound around the 6800 ones. Side by side it's really hard to tell the difference. But 6800/9000 vs. anything prior there is a noticeable difference. Actually the braking performance of the 6800 from the hoods especially is one of my favorite upgrades over 6700. The shifting though, that's so on point it has to take number one. Almost feels electronic in comparison.

I bought a full set of 9000 cables and housings for my 6800 bike but haven't used them due to the 6800 cables and housings being so fantastic. I will use the 9000 ones as a replacement set in a year or two.


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## Dunbar (Aug 8, 2010)

MMsRepBike said:


> But 6800/9000 vs. anything prior there is a noticeable difference. Actually the braking performance of the 6800 from the hoods especially is one of my favorite upgrades over 6700. The shifting though, that's so on point it has to take number one. Almost feels electronic in comparison.


I was pretty set on upgrading to 6800 later this year. I test rode a 6800 and 6700 equipped bikes the same day and honestly couldn't feel a big difference in shift quality or braking between the two or 5700 + 9000 cables. Before the 9000 cables I was not very happy with the shift quality of 5700 (skipped/stuttered on a few gears.) I also rode a 6870 bike and was really impressed with the brake performance. I don't know if it comes down to installation and tuning so I plan to test 6800 again. The 9000 cables are expensive so I'd probably only bother with the derailleur cables. I don't think it matters nearly as much on the brakes.


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## malcolm.mcintyre (Jul 31, 2014)

also, the DA9000 only offers a short cage rear derailleur, so maximum rear cog is 28. Ultegra still offers a longer cage option.


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## rcb78 (Jun 15, 2008)

I have 9000 on my road bike and 6800 on my CX that I race and commute on. The brakes on the CX are Paul Mini Moto so I can't make a braking comparison. I probably have a few thousand miles on each setup.
Let me start by saying this, my wife is a certified sensory integration specialist and says I have MAJOR proprioceptive issues, so take it with a grain of salt because I am overly sensitive to tactile feedback. Anyways, I feel that functionally they are identical, but the tactile feedback is noticeably different. The 9000 is noticeably (to me) smoother in operation than the 6800. The 6800 has a more positive feedback (click) for each shift. That's not to say the 9000 has a dead feel like the previous 7900 did, but it's smoother and more subdued than the 6800.
Which is better??? Neither, both, whatever. The road bike is a fair weather bike so 9000 seemed like the right choice. The CX bike is the commuter and foul weather bike that I also race each season in freezing temps, so more feedback from the shifter is welcome with cold, wet and gloved hands.
Just my $.02


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## TricrossRich (Mar 26, 2014)

rcb78 said:


> Let me start by saying this, my wife is a certified sensory integration specialist and says I have MAJOR proprioceptive issues, so take it with a grain of salt because I am overly sensitive to tactile feedback.


I have no idea what this means.....



rcb78 said:


> Anyways, I feel that functionally they are identical, but the tactile feedback is noticeably different. The 9000 is noticeably (to me) smoother in operation than the 6800.


but I agree 100% with this. I LOVE the way the DA9000 levers feel. The pull on them feels so smooth and so perfect, almost likes there's a geared effect inside them that changes the feedback.


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## rcb78 (Jun 15, 2008)

TricrossRich said:


> I have no idea what this means....


Basically it means I tend to be hypersensitive to tactile feedback, not just how it feels, but how it makes me feel.


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## Lombard (May 8, 2014)

My opinion is cables are everything so go for the best.

as far as everything else, 105 5700 groupset works flawlessly for me. And let me tell you, compared to the Cane Creek brakes on my old road bike, the 5700s have more stopping power than I'll ever need!


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## berserk87 (Jul 24, 2014)

MMsRepBike said:


> In terms of 6800 vs. 9000 I personally really can't tell the difference. This is the first year I've been able to say that, which means the 6800 is the best Ultegra has ever been in my opinion. It's a huge step forward over the 6700 group. And being it's right about half the cost, it's a no brainer to me.
> 
> 
> > I am glad to hear that. I have heard from some folks over the years that they could tell no difference between DA and Ultegra. I was always able to in the past, so I still carry this suspicion with me a bit. When I look to upgrade I will have to check out Ultegra this time and give it a look-see.


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## ehcarleton (Aug 25, 2014)

*What about Ultegra Di2?*

I just got my first real road bike built. My #1 issue with my old bike was the shifting so I went with electronic Di2 shifting. To say it is amazing is a huge understatement. 

Oh, I didn't have 5000USD for a bike, my local shop was able and willing to build me the custom Di2 bike on a steal frame designed for mechanical drive train. The frame was only 550USD. So... There is no reason you could not put 6800 Di2 on your 105 frame.


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## Lombard (May 8, 2014)

ehcarleton said:


> I just got my first real road bike built. My #1 issue with my old bike was the shifting so I went with electronic Di2 shifting. To say it is amazing is a huge understatement.
> 
> Oh, I didn't have 5000USD for a bike, my local shop was able and willing to build me the custom Di2 bike on a steal frame designed for mechanical drive train. The frame was only 550USD. So... There is no reason you could not put 6800 Di2 on your 105 frame.


Di2 work great until you forget to recharge the battery. 
Call me old school but IMHO, just one more thing to worry about.


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## ehcarleton (Aug 25, 2014)

Lombard said:


> Di2 work great until you forget to recharge the battery.
> Call me old school but IMHO, just one more thing to worry about.


you are absolutely right, it is one more thing to go wrong. Don't forget thought, while you gain the issue of charging the battery every 2000km, you loose the issue of shifting cables adjusting over time. So if you factor in the fact that with Di2 you also loose something tot worry about, it is a zero sum game. And the shifting it SO sweat!


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## scottma (May 18, 2012)

You would have to really be negligent to not charge the battery. You dont have to do it very often. It takes a second to check the battery level before a ride.


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## ehcarleton (Aug 25, 2014)

scottma said:


> You would have to really be negligent to not charge the battery. You dont have to do it very often. It takes a second to check the battery level before a ride.


I totally get where you are coming from, but... 

I am a battery Nazi when it comes to things like my smart phone, when it is below 50% I am looking for a charger! But I am also very forgetful about some things... Knowing the Di2 battery doesn't need to be charged but once every few months, I don't check the battery after every ride. I have had mine for only three weeks and when I checked the meter last week I was surprised to see that I am between 50% and 75%, but then I realized I do have over 500 miles on it (804km). 

So... It was a bit of an eye opener to me to remember to check it a bit more often. I can easily see where folks that don't ride a ton would forget to check it and caught out riding with a battery too low.


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## berserk87 (Jul 24, 2014)

scottma said:


> You would have to really be negligent to not charge the battery. You dont have to do it very often. It takes a second to check the battery level before a ride.


That's what I thought, too. One of my teammates managed to do it recently. Went out on a training ride and he could not shift. Found out his battery had died. He had to turn back a mile into the ride and go home. Oops.


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