# six13 v.s. Merckx team sc



## zaneboy

I'm between the purchase of a six 13 or merckx team sc. , I have tested the six 13 , like it alot, but don't have a merckx dealer to demo .Does anyone have any advice. Thanks


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## geauxsclusk

Personally I would get the six 13! The bike is getting great reviews, but that's just my opinion.


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## travis200

The Six 13 looks like an awesome bike to ride. Great reviews in every magazine I have read. if it fits I say go for it.


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## carver

*Reviews are great, but*

you definitely should ride the Merckx to give proper consideration. I've ridden with a couple guys who have the merckx team, both are about 150 and love the bike. The merckx wasn't for me. The geometry of the 58cm 6-13 is perfect for me. I liked the ride, however I weigh 180 and do a lot of climbing but wasn't stiff enough in bb for me. But thats me - I'm used to the all alum cdale team that has a very stiff crank and bb.


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## divve

They reviewed the Six13 the German Tour Magazin as well. Stiffness specifications are basically identical to the CAAD7 and they both ride the same......with one killer.....the Six13 is almost 3 ounces heavier.


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## carver

*Stiffness Specs*

You are correct that the specs would indicate the frames being "basically identical". 

Here's my take, and admittedly its hardly scientific, based on riding the team 4000 miles and the 613 for about 200 miles: the 613 has smaller aluminum lugs rather than the larger/oversized lugs used in the optimo frame. I rode a 613 w/ Record Carbon Cranks (less stiff than the integrated cranks) and the bike definitely had more give. The 613 I rode w/ integrated cranks came closer to the optimo w/integrated cranks. All that said, since I am one who looks for a stiff setup, I am probably more sensitive to this characteristic. 

I suppose you can put together a package for the 613 using stiffer wheels, stiffer stem, other things. For my time on the 613 I used the same component as I have on my team - carbon slice fork, Neutrons, Stella Azzura bar, stem and post, Vittoria Corsa CX tires.

At the end of the day, the 613 is a great frame and I recommend it to all. My experience with it is fairly limited, so I should have put my comment about the bb not being stiff enough in context.

BTW, I heard this fall's caad8 has a slightly larger down tube diameter than the caad7.


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## divve

I don't quite understand what you mean by smaller lugs? Cannondale developer Chris Peck stated in the article that a Six13 is made from a cut up CAAD7. Given this information the lugs should essentially be the same?


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## carver

*I'm a clutz with words....*

the hollowgram / integrated bb is 1/8 in larger diameter than the standard bb used if you want the record or da.

i think that is what adds to the stiffness.


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## MerckxMad

*SixThirteen=Drool Factor*

I own a 2002 Team SC and love it because Merckx Century Geometry fits me best of all stock bikes. It's fast, stiff and light, a real blast to ride, but I wouldn't want to ride a century on it. Recently, I tried out the 613 (wrong size frame) and it was a fantastic ride. It was very similar to the Team SC, with a bit less road buzz. I think the 'Dale CAAD frames ride very much like the Team SC...rigid to the point of shaking your fillings out after a few hours on rough pavement. The 613 is a beautiful machine and it's received great reviews in the mags. Still, you owe it to yourself to try one of King Eddy's best before deciding.


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## carver

*Six13 = Drool*

Well put.


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## divve

MerckxMad said:


> I own a 2002 Team SC and love it because Merckx Century Geometry fits me best of all stock bikes. It's fast, stiff and light, a real blast to ride, but I wouldn't want to ride a century on it. Recently, I tried out the 613 (wrong size frame) and it was a fantastic ride. It was very similar to the Team SC, with a bit less road buzz. I think the 'Dale CAAD frames ride very much like the Team SC...rigid to the point of shaking your fillings out after a few hours on rough pavement. The 613 is a beautiful machine and it's received great reviews in the mags. Still, you owe it to yourself to try one of King Eddy's best before deciding.


Sorry but that's just perpetuating the marketing bull....I mean reviews found in so many magazines. Whatever less road buzz you felt had more to do with the tire pressure and components than anything else. The frame itself is no different. You should have a ride on my CAAD7. It rides great too the way it's setup. I ride for 5-7 hours on it without a problem.

BTW, here's a pic of the new CAAD8. It's lighter than the Six13 and made to look like this years Giro winner....but I don't recall seeing Cunego's bike with flattened seatstays.


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## carver

*Caad8*

nice looking. do you know where the weight savings are?

i, too, ride my caad7 3-4-5 hrs w/o any fillings getting knocked out. it's all how you set it up.


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## divve

I'm not sure what they changed yet on the CAAD8 frame itself. Just as their previous frames it'll be available with either SI or standard BB shell. The SI version looks like it will have new carbon Hollowgram compatible cranks (made by FSA I suspect), but are on lower-end setups. The aluminum version appears to be reserved for the Six13 and the lighter Premium + fork too. If you get the frameset you probably have the option of switching things around however.
The CAAD8 itself is about 50g lighter than the CAAD7 from what I heard. It's not so much that the CAAD7 or new CAAD8 are that much lighter, it's the Six13 that's heavier. The explanation given by Cannondale was that the finish was on the thick side on early Six13 frames, but I doubt that would account for an extra 80g over the CAAD7. I tend to put more credit in what Cannondale always used to advocate, claiming that alloy/carbon bonding would lead to a weight increase over just using a single material, in their case aluminum.

In my opinion they're all well performing frames with good finishing. I just don't really know where the Six13 is going to lead them, then again lots of other manufacturers have stuff available that doesn't make their higher--end offerings any better than last years stuff so what the heck.....


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## carver

*thanks*

good info. i look forward to taking it for a spin.

cheers---


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## dawgcatching

I've gotta say-the Six13 is the FASTEST bike I have ever ridden, acceleration-wise. I test rode it yesterday, along with a Bianchi Carbon (the white one) and a Calfee Tetra. I also own a Fondriest Carb Level, so that is my basis for judgement. 

The Six13 just accelerated SOOOOO quick. Talk about a Ferrari-like feel! The first time I stepped on the pedals from a complete stop, I actually brought the front wheel off the ground by accident! The thing just gets up and goes. The Calfee was close, but not as powerful. The Bianchi was much more laterally soft, and didn't ride that smooth-I didn't like it. 

I did get to take the bike on a section of old-town cobbles. The Six13 isn't the smoothest bike, but is totally manageable, and is more supple than the CAAD7. The Calfee was more supplet than the Six13, but at the expense of raw power and acceleration. Boy, that Six13 is a hot rod. I doubt there is a better race bike available.


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## b6d6

*Six 13 Twitchy*

I purchased a six 13 and rode it for a good number of miles - probably about 4000. I've been fortunate to have ridden a lot of great frames over the years and thought I'd offer my perspective. The six 13 is pretty stiff and very light. Road vibration was dampened a good deal with the carbon. One huge issue with the six 13 frame, however, is the stability. I was reaching into my jersey pocket to fetch a bar and the handlebars began to shake uncontrollably at 38 mph. I had to grab hold quickly. Made sure all was tightened for the next ride and tested it at various speeds only to find that the damn thing is unstable. I took it back to my LBS and asked to borrow another thinking there was an issue with mine - same thing on that six13. I didn't want to sell the bike b/c it did all else well but had to b/c of the stability issues. I really noticed the stability issue after a few hundred miles when the newness wore off. Since selling the bike, I've read an article in bicycling magazine that spoke about the same stability issues. Also, several friends said the same. It's only my opinion but I would NOT buy the six13 again.


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## carver

*That's not good!*

Didn't happen to me. I happy or lucky it didn't happen to me. Nothing makes me more skiddish. I got it up to high speeds 44-45 on some steep descents. Braked quickly and smooth. I rode the 613 only about 200 miles. The setup - 58cm, 100mm stella alloy stem, stella alloy bars, neutrons w/vittoria corsa cx. Had about 4-5 in of seatpost showing. Same setup as my caad7 team. I weigh about 180.

I wonder what gives? Any thoughts?


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## MerckxMad

*No, it's just my opinion*



divve said:


> Sorry but that's just perpetuating the marketing bull....I mean reviews found in so many magazines. Whatever less road buzz you felt had more to do with the tire pressure and components than anything else. The frame itself is no different. You should have a ride on my CAAD7. It rides great too the way it's setup. I ride for 5-7 hours on it without a problem.
> 
> BTW, here's a pic of the new CAAD8. It's lighter than the Six13 and made to look like this years Giro winner....but I don't recall seeing Cunego's bike with flattened seatstays.


So, if my opinion differs from yours, I'm susceptible to "marketing bull," huh?

FYI, my Team SC was set up nearly identical to the Six13 I test road, in particular, same wheels and tires. I don't know what componentry would have to do with it, but both have Record. My perception of this short ride was that on that particular stretch of road at that particular time, the Six13 was smoother than my Merckx. It could be the result of the difference in the forks or the frame material or the geometry or the road or the way I felt. It wasn't a very scientific test. The person that started the thread asked for impressions, and I simply gave mine.

Generally, Divve, I read your comments with interest as you provide solid information to the site's subscribers, but you need to tone down the opinion police act. 

BTW, your CAAD8 is nice, but it reeks of marketing bull.


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## divve

You're correct I should have been more tactful in my response.

Just to elaborate, the marketing bull was in response to your comparison to CAAD frames and the reinforcement of your impressions by stating the great reviews the Six13 has received, which in actuality have absolutely no objective/technical basis as back up.

When you compare two frames with basically identical head tube, BB, and fork stiffness, then conclude the aluminum version will shake your fillings out and the other one with a few carbon inserted tubes is relatively smooth. It strongly suggests there's more going on than a ride impression alone.

That CAAD8 in the picture isn't my bike.


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## mark_m

b6d6 said:


> ....... I was reaching into my jersey pocket to fetch a bar and the handlebars began to shake uncontrollably at 38 mph. I had to grab hold quickly. Made sure all was tightened for the next ride and tested it at various speeds only to find that the damn thing is unstable. I took it back to my LBS and asked to borrow another thinking there was an issue with mine - same thing on that six13. I didn't want to sell the bike b/c it did all else well but had to b/c of the stability issues. I really noticed the stability issue after a few hundred miles when the newness wore off. Since selling the bike, I've read an article in bicycling magazine that spoke about the same stability issues. Also, several friends said the same. It's only my opinion but I would NOT buy the six13 again.


I believe you have experienced "shimmy" or high speed wobble as in http://draco.acs.uci.edu/rbfaq/FAQ/8h.5.html 
Read it, it's really interesting.


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## MerckxMad

*Don't get me wrong*

I love my Merckx Team SC, it's just that it's not my pick for long, slow rides on the crap roads in my area. For these rides, I choose my Majestic or my Giant TCR. "Scientific data" aside, my perception is that both of these bikes result in less fatigue to me over the long haul. I may be wrong, but since all of my bikes have the same components, wheels and tires, I chalk it up to frame geometry and materials.

IMO, the original poster cannot go wrong with either the Six13 or the Team SC. They are both exceptional bikes.


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## 1centaur

*Harshness; Shimmy*

I own a Six13, a Tetra Pro, and a Klein, among others, so that's the basis of the following comparison:

The Six13 rides exactly like what it is - smoother than aluminum, harsher than carbon. I tested the Record version with Kysyriums, and bought the DA version with Topolinos - a very good choice. The K's play up the aluminum aspects. The Topolinos damp it out very well (love the wheels so much they are going on my next bike too). The Tetra (remember you can get reguler, extra stiff or super stiff tubes - mine are extra stiff) is an electric feeling bike with a smoother, higher quality feel to it (I get some aluminum creaking noise, I think, when I'm out of the saddle on the Six13 and I'm not heavy), but it's a little heavier and a little less efficient at the BB so I'd pick the 'Dale for climbing between those two. The Klein is the stiffest of these three - the most efficient BB feel I own (all with DA10 cranks).

As for the shimmy comments, first I have not had shimmy, second, I thought I read all the bike mags and I have seen no comments on the Six13 - please name the mag and the month, or at least the mag.


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## divve

German "Tour Magazin" - this month's issue. You really read all bike magazines? 

BTW, I noticed that if you mount an Aliante saddle any bike will instantly become much smoother.


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## elviento

*Damn*

Sorry to revive an old thread, but I cann't believe nobody rooted for the Team SC. C'dales become obsolete quickly. Six13s are going for very cheap on ebay these days. 

Anyway, I am planning to replace a Six13 w/ a Team SC, so stay tuned, folks. We will see how that turns out...


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## kjmunc

*+1 for the SC*

I must've missed this thread when it was initially posted..... 

I had a '02 Team SC and just sold it last summer.  I loved it and rode that bike into the ground for the better part of three full racing seasons. It was stiffer and lighter than anything else I've ever found, and despite a sponsorship agreeement with Trek I still rode my SC when I could get away with it. 

I think part of the negative vibe some people get from the bike has to do with the fact that it's a pure-bred race bike. If you're just going to be riding weekend cruisers over shoddy roads you'll be miserable, as it will shake your teeth out. My one complaint with the bike was the cheap-o Taiwanese carbon fork they put on it, as it made a quick handling bike even faster. 

Cdale obviously has a much larger presence in the US and therefore more people ride their bikes, but I haven't been overly impressed with any of their innovations or bikes. The Team SC is far superior to any of their CAAD crap they put out at the same time, and if I didn't have an affinity for steel bikes I'd probably still own one.


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