# Jeezus this sucks.



## PDex (Mar 23, 2004)

I know Maddie. I know her former coaches. I'm at a loss for words. 

She has not made a statement yet. 





> *Colorado cyclist stripped of 2013 Pan-Am track champs results due to clenbuterol positive.*
> 
> The U.S. Anti-Doping Agency has announced that cyclist Madalyn Godby of Louisville, Colorado, has tested positive for clenbuterol, and will lose competitive results due to the presence of the prohibited substance in her urine sample.
> 
> ...



Colorado cyclist stripped of 2013 Pan-Am track champs results due to clenbuterol positive - VeloNews.com


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## atpjunkie (Mar 23, 2002)

they'll fake a TUE for asthma or bronchiospasm

or claim she got a steak from Contador


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## mpre53 (Oct 25, 2011)

I read that they're not imposing any sanctions and not counting it as strike one---just DQ'd from the event. There seem to be documented cases of contaminated beef from both the US and Mexico.


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## King Arthur (Nov 13, 2009)

The original and still burden of proof resides with the athlete. They need to know what is going into their bodies, and as such guilty as charged. This should be a 2 year ban from all competition.


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## Local Hero (Jul 8, 2010)

Again with a delayed positive. 

This time it is almost six months.


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## asgelle (Apr 21, 2003)

King Arthur said:


> The original and still burden of proof resides with the athlete. They need to know what is going into their bodies, and as such guilty as charged. This should be a 2 year ban from all competition.


I guess when you're king you can make up the rules as you go along. Most athletes prefer a system where the rules are written in advance and administered fairly.


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## cda 455 (Aug 9, 2010)

mpre53 said:


> I read that they're not imposing any sanctions and not counting it as strike one---just DQ'd from the event. There seem to be documented cases of contaminated beef from both the US and Mexico.


Don't forget Spain.


A TDF win was stripped from a Spaniard who ingested said chemicals due to eating supposedly 'tainted' beef.


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## asgelle (Apr 21, 2003)

cda 455 said:


> Don't forget Spain.
> 
> 
> A TDF win was stripped from a Spaniard who ingested said chemicals due to eating supposedly 'tainted' beef.


And the Mexican soccer players?


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## den bakker (Nov 13, 2004)

cda 455 said:


> Don't forget Spain.
> 
> 
> A TDF win was stripped from a Spaniard who ingested said chemicals due to eating supposedly 'tainted' beef.


and the documented cases of contaminated beef in Spain ?


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## Nubster (Jul 8, 2009)

Clen used for weightloss? Body builders use it for cutting, just curious if cyclist use it for the same reason.


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## Cinelli 82220 (Dec 2, 2010)

Bodybuilders use it for pre-contest prep to cut. It might help a cyclist increase their power-to-weight ratio, so it would help a climber. Not sure how much it would help a track racer, if at all.


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## asgelle (Apr 21, 2003)

Local Hero said:


> Again with a delayed positive.
> 
> This time it is almost six months.


Six months for the entire process, not just to get the results. Godby was notified of the positive at some earlier, unspecified date but the result was kept confidential until now in accordance with the rules.


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## Bluenote (Oct 28, 2012)

I was bummed when I heard the news, too. 

I don't know Maddie personally, but the track community is small. Intellectually I know amateurs cheat, women cheat. It isn't just about the pressure for big contracts, it's also about ego, competitiveness gone to far and so on. 

I'd like it if track was an island, isolated from doping and other bad behavior. But I know it's not.


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## asgelle (Apr 21, 2003)

Bluenote said:


> I'd like it if track was an island, isolated from doping and other bad behavior. But I know it's not.


So you've contacted USADA?


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## Randy99CL (Mar 27, 2013)

Isn't the problem that ranchers are feeding steroids to cattle to fatten them up?
I thought that was in the news a couple of decades ago?
People talk about "tainted" or "contaminated" beef when it is hard to find meat that has _not_ been 'roided.

Growth Hormones Fed to Beef Cattle Damage Human Health


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## Cinelli 82220 (Dec 2, 2010)

Ranchers do all kinds of stuff they shouldn't. Steroids are just one of many things they pump into their cows.


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## Local Hero (Jul 8, 2010)

Can anyone explain why a trackie would take clenbuteral? 




asgelle said:


> Six months for the entire process, not just to get the results. Godby was notified of the positive at some earlier, unspecified date but the result was kept confidential until now in accordance with the rules.


Why are the results being released now?


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## Bluenote (Oct 28, 2012)

Local Hero said:


> Can anyone explain why a trackie would take clenbuteral?
> 
> 
> Why are the results being released now?


Weight matters a bit on the track. More that needs accelerated. You don't need to be anorexic, but you don't want to be fat either.


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## DrSmile (Jul 22, 2006)

Clenbuterol doesn't just promote weight loss. It increases the aerobic capacity of the blood, meaning the amount of oxygen carrying capacity. It also increases fat burning and breakdown of glycogen, which results in the greater availability of energy for the cells, in the form of glucose and ATP. As a stimulant it's longer acting than epinephrine / ephedrine. So it's pretty clear that it would be an advantage for any type of cyclist.


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## little_shoe (Apr 18, 2008)

King Arthur said:


> They need to know what is going into their bodies, and as such guilty as charged.


And do you know what is going in your own body? Do you know what is in the food you eat or in the stuff you drink? Surely your pepsi can't tainted with something?



King Arthur said:


> The original and still burden of proof resides with the athlete.


This is what makes me not support WADA and its system as it exists now. If WADA wants to prove someone doped the whole process must be done to a standard which would hold up in a civil court of law. This means WADA must prove the tests were completed properly EVERY TIME and a not just assumed as they are now.


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## Local Hero (Jul 8, 2010)

DrSmile said:


> Clenbuterol doesn't just promote weight loss. It increases the aerobic capacity of the blood, meaning the amount of oxygen carrying capacity. It also increases fat burning and breakdown of glycogen, which results in the greater availability of energy for the cells, in the form of glucose and ATP. As a stimulant it's longer acting than epinephrine / ephedrine. So it's pretty clear that it would be an advantage for any type of cyclist.


Do you sell it?


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## hicksycle (Jan 8, 2013)

"both USADA and the UCI, could not, to a comfortable satisfaction, conclude that Godby had acted negligently or was at fault for the positive test" [velonews]

Some further explanation is required to clarify the expression "comfortable satisfaction". 

A jury of the Court of Arbitration for Sports consisting of a German, a Swiss, and an Isreali felt very comfortable and satisfied inflicting the maximum possible punishment on darker skinned Alberto Contador for detection of an amount so small it is less than 40 times (*) WADA's minimum required for detection ,and various caretakers of the sport felt comfortable and satisfied leaking unprovable innuendos to the press to make up for the lack of evidence. To this day you will often find sports columns and comments by racially Northern European whites slandering Contador to make up for the lack of meaningful evidence; typically in the form of "steak joke" which is a way of replacing the need for factual discussion with group-feelgood-bonding at the expense of the outsider. 

(* Originally 400 times less, the figure was "revised" as time went by)

Since Gody is young white woman, this difference in attitude and punishment does not surprise me in the least. Although the hypocrisy is thoroughly revolting.


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## Bluenote (Oct 28, 2012)

hicksycle said:


> "both USADA and the UCI, could not, to a comfortable satisfaction, conclude that Godby had acted negligently or was at fault for the positive test" [velonews]
> 
> Some further explanation is required to clarify the expression "comfortable satisfaction".
> 
> ...


Or maybe because Contador is in Spain, where there are pretty much no cases of clenbuteral showing up in meat and Maddie is in the US, where there are a few cases, they were sanctioned differently. 

And if you think Contador is 'brown' you might want to adjust your TV. 

Here he is with Mr. 60%.
Riis, Contador and the elephant in the room | Cycle Sport


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## hicksycle (Jan 8, 2013)

Bluenote said:


> Or maybe because Contador is in Spain, where there are pretty much no cases of clenbuteral showing up in meat and Maddie is in the US, where there are a few cases, they were sanctioned differently.
> 
> And if you think Contador is 'brown' you might want to adjust your TV.
> 
> ...



No cases of clenbuterol used for livestock?
Spanish police uncover clenbuterol ring doping horses, livestock - VeloNews.com

How were the clenbuterol tests for Spanish cattle performed? Who did them? Could there be differences in the cattle used for export and cattle for domestic (in Spain) consumption? Pretty obvious these questions must be asked, and just a little bit of common sense says there is a possibility of contaminated meat, and that consuming such meat is completely compatible with the ultra low level detected in Contador. 

To help your argument along you post a picture from an anti-Contador article by an author who uses more inuendo to convict Contador, which just proves my point.


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## Bluenote (Oct 28, 2012)

hicksycle said:


> No cases of clenbuterol used for livestock?
> Spanish police uncover clenbuterol ring doping horses, livestock - VeloNews.com
> 
> How were the clenbuterol tests for Spanish cattle performed? Who did them? Could there be differences in the cattle used for export and cattle for domestic (in Spain) consumption? Pretty obvious these questions must be asked, and just a little bit of common sense says there is a possibility of contaminated meat, and that consuming such meat is completely compatible with the ultra low level detected in Contador.
> ...


Yeah. The author of the article had the forsight to tint Contador white, to stave off the tinfoil hat crowd. 

And Contador is totally innocent. He just had 'a bad year' at this years tour. Total coincidence that he came back without much pop for attacks. 

Do I go with a where's the beef joke?


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## asgelle (Apr 21, 2003)

hicksycle said:


> A jury of the Court of Arbitration for Sports ...
> 
> 
> Since Gody is young white woman, this difference in attitude and punishment does not surprise me in the least. Although the hypocrisy is thoroughly revolting.


Don't you hate when facts get in the way of a good conspiracy theory. I don't know if you're ignorant of the results management process under the WADA code or just deliberately obfuscating the issue for your own ends, but the proper analogy is not between CAS and USADA, but the Spanish Federation and USADA. The case is remanded for review.


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## asgelle (Apr 21, 2003)

Local Hero said:


> Why are the results being released now?


I don't understand the question. Are you asking why the process took six months or why the results are being released at all? Six months to process the original sample, inform the athlete, get her decision whether or not to examine the B sample and perform the analysis if requested, choose a review panel, gather evidence, consider the evidence, reach a conclusion, and publish the results doesn't seem unreasonable to me.

If the question is why not keep everything confidential; USADA requires publishing the results of all cases when they are completed.


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## DrSmile (Jul 22, 2006)

Local Hero said:


> Do you sell it?


Can't rep you... I wish I could sell it, there seem to be all these really fit people asking for some!


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## Local Hero (Jul 8, 2010)

asgelle said:


> I don't understand the question. Are you asking why the process took six months or why the results are being released at all? Six months to process the original sample, inform the athlete, get her decision whether or not to examine the B sample and perform the analysis if requested, choose a review panel, gather evidence, consider the evidence, reach a conclusion, and publish the results doesn't seem unreasonable to me.
> 
> If the question is why not keep everything confidential; USADA requires publishing the results of all cases when they are completed.


Please take my question at face value. 


Some positives are released after a month. Some take four months. This took six months. 

I know that things take time and athletes are afforded rights along the way. But the B sample and review committee discussion might be irrelevant; sometimes we hear of a positive A sample while the athlete requests to have the B sample analyzed.





My question is really about the timeline. How long should we expect to wait for test results? 

Will we hear of TdF rider's samples testing positive...in January?


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## PaxRomana (Jan 16, 2012)

Local Hero said:


> Will we hear of TdF rider's samples testing positive...in January?


Maybe...if they haven't paid their UCI "dues".


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## asgelle (Apr 21, 2003)

Local Hero said:


> My question is really about the timeline. How long should we expect to wait for test results?


O.K. I think I understand. Results are supposed to be held confidential by the national ADA or Federation until the conclusion of the process. We should have no expectation of learning of positive results until the process has run its course.

Often the athlete or his or her team will voluntarily choose to release the result. This may be required at the ProTour level as riders must be held out of competition. This is the case with the more high profile riders and why we've become used to seeing A sample results, but this is not part of the formal WADA process. So could Godby have held a press conference to discus the A sample? Sure, but having chosen not to (as was her right) USADA could not on its own say anything.

I think having ADAs and federations respect confidentiality of results is a good thing.


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## Bluenote (Oct 28, 2012)

asgelle said:


> O.K. I think I understand. Results are supposed to be held confidential by the national ADA or Federation until the conclusion of the process. We should have no expectation of learning of positive results until the process has run its course.
> 
> Often the athlete or his or her team will voluntarily choose to release the result. This may be required at the ProTour level as riders must be held out of competition. This is the case with the more high profile riders and why we've become used to seeing A sample results, but this is not part of the formal WADA process. So could Godby have held a press conference to discus the A sample? Sure, but having chosen not to (as was her right) USADA could not on its own say anything.
> 
> I think having ADAs and federations respect confidentiality of results is a good thing.


It is a good point. Fewer people interested in leaking / reporting positives of obscure track riders. 

Can people on here even name 3 female track riders?


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## Local Hero (Jul 8, 2010)

Bluenote said:


> It is a good point. Fewer people interested in leaking / reporting positives of obscure track riders.


Right but don't all positive tests go into a USAC or USADA publication? 


> Can people on here even name 3 female track riders?


I can, as I race at the track and follow pro trackies, both male and female. Track racers are often bigger than their roadie counterparts. That's why I half-cringed when you said that trackies may want to cut weight. A female trackie who would considering risking a positive test to cut a small amount of weight needs to take a look at Anna Meares's caboose. Dat ass isn't slowing her down one bit! Of course, as DrSmile said, there may be other reasons why a cyclist would take clenbuteral. 

A few of the trackies from my velodrome even competed in the Pan American games. One wrote a blog about her drug test experience after winning nationals in 2011.


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## asgelle (Apr 21, 2003)

Local Hero said:


> Right but don't all positive tests go into a USAC or USADA publication?


One more time. No. Test results are not reported. Results of disciplinary actions are.
From the USADA Athletes Handbook, "USADA publicly announces doping violations following the conclusions of its results management process or as otherwise provided in the applicable rules."


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## Bluenote (Oct 28, 2012)

Local Hero said:


> Right but don't all positive tests go into a USAC or USADA publication?
> I can, as I race at the track and follow pro trackies, both male and female. Track racers are often bigger than their roadie counterparts. That's why I half-cringed when you said that trackies may want to cut weight. A female trackie who would considering risking a positive test to cut a small amount of weight needs to take a look at Anna Meares's caboose. Dat ass isn't slowing her down one bit! Of course, as DrSmile said, there may be other reasons why a cyclist would take clenbuteral.
> 
> A few of the trackies from my velodrome even competed in the Pan American games. One wrote a blog about her drug test experience after winning nationals in 2011.


Apparently you know track, but not physics. That whole force mass acceleration thing. 

Put another 10 pounds on your rig and report back to us what it does for your sprint. 

As for people being illogical to risk positives - whats your point? People take stupid risks all the time. Think Lance's comeback tour. Or his refusal to get Landis a quiet desk job somewhere. Or Ricco's fridge full of blood. 

Ego, hubris, competitiveness frequently over rule logic, safety or common sense.


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## PDex (Mar 23, 2004)

Local Hero said:


> A few of the trackies from my velodrome even competed in the Pan American games. One wrote a blog about her drug test experience after winning nationals in 2011.


Cari Higgins has some pretty funny observations on FB when the USADA people ring her doorbell at 6:00 AM.


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## hicksycle (Jan 8, 2013)

Bluenote said:


> Yeah. The author of the article had the forsight to tint Contador white, to stave off the tinfoil hat crowd.
> 
> And Contador is totally innocent. He just had 'a bad year' at this years tour. Total coincidence that he came back without much pop for attacks.
> 
> Do I go with a where's the beef joke?



I'll follow the instructions printed in your signature. Thanks.


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## Local Hero (Jul 8, 2010)

Bluenote said:


> Apparently you know track, but not physics. That whole force mass acceleration thing.


Is that necessary? 

I never said that weight was insignificant, only that it is much less significant on the track. It makes sense when roadies go to extremes to cut weight. It doesn't make sense for trackies to do so, given that velodromes are so cleverly designed that there are no climbs. 



> Put another 10 pounds on your rig and report back to us what it does for your sprint.


On my rig or on my body? 

I would be a much better sprinter if I had Forsterman's legs. But I don't know if my climbing would improve. 



> As for people being illogical to risk positives - whats your point?


I'm no clenbuteral expert. Going into this thread I thought that it was used for cutting weight. If clenbuteral is only used as a weight control agent then the risky use of it during competition is nonsensical for a trackie. 

If clenbuteral has multiple performance enhancing benefits for a cyclists, it might make more sense for a trackie trying to gain a competitive advantage to use it. 


> People take stupid risks all the time. Think Lance's comeback tour. Or his refusal to get Landis a quiet desk job somewhere. Or Ricco's fridge full of blood.
> 
> Ego, hubris, competitiveness frequently over rule logic, safety or common sense.


I wonder if we can have a thread in here without mentioning Armstrong.


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## Local Hero (Jul 8, 2010)

asgelle said:


> One more time. No. Test results are not reported. Results of disciplinary actions are.


OK, so are there cases where people test positive for drugs but nothing happens and nobody ever knows? 


> From the USADA Athletes Handbook, "USADA publicly announces doping violations following the conclusions of its results management process or as otherwise provided in the applicable rules."


To be fair, that's not the clearest quote.


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## Doctor Falsetti (Sep 24, 2010)

The timing is not unusual. It took 2 months for Tyson Gay's positive to be made public. Sayar's recent positive for EPO took 4 months to get out.


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