# Spokes for HED C2 custom build



## prglewis (Mar 31, 2012)

I've heard so many different opinions here so I wanted to post something with all of my variables. I'm looking to get a custom build based on the HED C2's, a powertap G3 hub in the rear and DT Swiss 240s up front, DT AeroLite spokes and alloy nips. My question is to the spoke count.

I weigh just under 180lbs and I'm dropping weight. My wheel builder suggested what I think is a really high spoke count: 24/32. HED's website suggest 18/24 for up to 190lbs, and their "stallion" build for riders up to 225lbs is only 20/28. I called and asked HED about it and they said that 24/32 is way overkill. Everyone seems to have a different opinion, including others I talk to.

Any recommendations?

It's a general use wheel, usually training around SoCal with some racing thrown in. I'm leaning to the lower counts for weight, aerodynamics and aesthetics (I really don't like the look of high spoke count wheels).

Thanks!


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## prglewis (Mar 31, 2012)

Oh and right now I ride stock DT Swiss R1700's with 20/24 spokes. Absolutely no problems at all, great wheels!


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## valleycyclist (Nov 1, 2009)

I would probably go with 24f/28r spokes since it is used mostly for training. 20f/28r should be fine too, but you have to check if you can get the rim in 20 hole. Since it is used mostly for training, I would lean towards being on the conservative side with the spoke count. And if your races will be criteriums, you may like the extra spokes in the rear anyway.


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## cha_cha_ (Sep 27, 2008)

sounds to me like there's just a bit of a mis-match between what you want and what your wheelbuilder thinks you want. the issue is with reliability. at 20/24 then each spoke is doing more work - break 1 spoke and you are at greater risk of having a wheel that you can't ride home. if you can accept the perceived reduction in reliability that results from this then go for it, if not and reliability is more important then overbuild them 24/32.

personally, at 210lbs i ride 24F 2x and 28R 3x on my commuter wheels and that's enough for me and i would also think plenty for you too.


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## prglewis (Mar 31, 2012)

Thanks. I think I'd be happy with 20/28 at the max, but it turns out that the only spoke counts available at the moment are 18, 24 and 32's. Apparently getting stock from HED isn't so easy. That leaves me at 18/24.

Any idea why there is such a big discrepancy between manufacturer and custom builder? I would have thought that a custom wheel would be able to run fewer spokes as they would be able to build it better (higher and more even spoke pressures). It seems like it's the other way around though...


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## prglewis (Mar 31, 2012)

Thanks cha cha. If you're 210lbs on 24/28 then that definitely gives me confidence to go lower. My current 20/24's have performed great so I'm not too worried about breaking a spoke.


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## dcgriz (Feb 13, 2011)

You should also be asking what spokes is he using.


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## prglewis (Mar 31, 2012)

DT Aerolite or Sapim CX-Ray's. Same same.


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## dcgriz (Feb 13, 2011)

I was referring to your reply to cha-cha


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## twinkles (Apr 23, 2007)

Have you considered going with the velocity a23 rim? It is available in a larger variety of drillings than the heds.


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## teleguy57 (Apr 23, 2006)

I built up a set of C2 clinchers in 32/32. Very stiff -- I'm thinking overkill even for my 100kg.


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## Eyorerox (Feb 19, 2008)

http://www.boydcycling.com/powertap-alloy-wheels/


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## prglewis (Mar 31, 2012)

Yeah but the profile is very shallow. While it's a bit lighter, I understand that it's weaker and would need more spokes to compensate. Plus I think the build quality might be better from the HED's, and maybe the HED's depth makes them a touch more aero.


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## NWS Alpine (Mar 16, 2012)

prglewis said:


> Yeah but the profile is very shallow. While it's a bit lighter, I understand that it's weaker and would need more spokes to compensate. Plus I think the build quality might be better from the HED's, and maybe the HED's depth makes them a touch more aero.


Is this in response to the Boyd wheels posted above? The Vitesse build is actually the same width 23mm and deeper at 28mm than the HEDs. Nice rim to consider.


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## Kristatos (Jan 10, 2008)

I am usually about 170 - 175 lbs and run 18/24 on the C2 rims with DT spokes. They were originally one of the Ardennes builds with lightweight bladed spokes which kept breaking on me. I finally bit the bullet and had a local builder relace them with something more durable - but I can't remember if they are DT comps or what. The wheel doesn't really feel heavier but I haven't broken a spoke since. I think your build is great except maybe consider Aero Comp or something a little heavier at the low spoke count (or you may be good with the Aerolite if your builder is more talented than whoever at HED laced mine originally)


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## prglewis (Mar 31, 2012)

NWS Alpine said:


> Is this in response to the Boyd wheels posted above? The Vitesse build is actually the same width 23mm and deeper at 28mm than the HEDs. Nice rim to consider.


No, I was referring to the Velocity wheels.

The Boyds actually look good on paper, and very good value. I can't find any real reviews on them though. My main concern is with the front hub. I spoke to them and they told me that the only other hub they would be able to use would be the Alchemy, which would run about $140 more. That places a value of around $40 on the Boyd hub.


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## twinkles (Apr 23, 2007)

Chances are those spokes weren't tensioned properly. Pro MTB downhillers are using aerolites-cxrays on their wheels. What was the location on the wheel where those spokes were breaking?


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## stevesbike (Jun 3, 2002)

there's always kinlin 300s, deeper and a bit lighter than the C2 (not as wide), cheaper. I weigh between 170-175 and had a powertap 24 hole rear that was bullet proof (cx ray) as a daily trainer in SoCal. Good for racing on as well. Finally sold it only because it was a wired version and wanted a wireless hub.


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## mimason (Oct 7, 2006)

More spokes please for my 175lbs.

Saturday I ripped a drive side spoke out of a Reynolds 32mm carbon wheel laced to a DT hub with 24 spokes.I was on fire but had to end the ride short.... wheel rubbing pads all the way home and I even opened up the cables wide open.

My new wheelset on order are C2s with Alchemy hubs laced 24/28.


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## prglewis (Mar 31, 2012)

stevesbike said:


> there's always kinlin 300s, deeper and a bit lighter than the C2 (not as wide), cheaper. I weigh between 170-175 and had a powertap 24 hole rear that was bullet proof (cx ray) as a daily trainer in SoCal. Good for racing on as well. Finally sold it only because it was a wired version and wanted a wireless hub.


I'm looking for something wider, the C2's fit what I'm looking for I'm just trying to figure out spokes. Good to hear that your 24 spoke rear was bullet proof though.


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## prglewis (Mar 31, 2012)

mimason said:


> Saturday I ripped a drive side spoke out of a Reynolds 32mm carbon wheel laced to a DT hub with 24 spokes.


Sounds like the rim failed rather than the spoke. I would have thought an aluminium rim would be stronger, right?


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## kbiker3111 (Nov 7, 2006)

prglewis said:


> I've heard so many different opinions here so I wanted to post something with all of my variables. I'm looking to get a custom build based on the HED C2's, a powertap G3 hub in the rear and DT Swiss 240s up front, DT AeroLite spokes and alloy nips. My question is to the spoke count.
> 
> I weigh just under 180lbs and I'm dropping weight. My wheel builder suggested what I think is a really high spoke count: 24/32. HED's website suggest 18/24 for up to 190lbs, and their "stallion" build for riders up to 225lbs is only 20/28. I called and asked HED about it and they said that 24/32 is way overkill. Everyone seems to have a different opinion, including others I talk to.
> 
> ...


There are three reasons to go with more spokes. First, it doesn't hurt to have more spokes for safety. You will never notice the 50 extra grams or whatever from a few spokes. Second, the local wheelbuilder can't test low spoke count wheels the way HED can, so he's going to nervous selling a wheel he can't be sure will be reliable. Finally, the way the powertap wheels are built, the hub geometry is a little screwy (though better on the G3) and loads the wheel differently than most wheels, so a few extra spokes won't hurt on an everyday wheel.

I agree that 20/28 or 24/28 is probably the best solution, but you don't have that option. If your'e serious about training with power, its better to go higher than lower.


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## Kristatos (Jan 10, 2008)

kbiker3111 said:


> so a few extra spokes won't hurt on an everyday wheel.


This is good advice. One thing I didn't mention in my post before is two times the lightweight bladed spokes broke on my rear C2 wheel (once time each side) the bike couldn't be ridden home as the rim was slammed up against the chainstay. If these are going to be everyday wheels for sometime racing then go with higher spoke count than you would for race day only wheels or go with heavier duty spokes at the lower count (or both if you are a brute on equipment). 

If you are a pro MTB downhiller then go with whatever like was mentioned as you only have to ride them for 5 minutes downhill with 2.5" tires and you're done.


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## Fast Freddy (Mar 4, 2004)

I have been riding the Hed Belgian C2 rim with Dt240s hubs (and DT Aerolite spokes alloy nips) for over a year now. I have the 24/28 set up 2 cross front and rear. I started last year at 225lbs and now down to 190lbs - they are light, stiff, and strong. I have yet to true them. They do not feel flexy at all like the American Classic wheels I had before these. I like them and am having a hard time convincing myself I need to get some tall carbon wheels when these work so good for everyday miles as well as crit and road races.

FF


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## Darryl W (Jul 10, 2010)

Comparing a build with HED or DT hubs to one with a PT is not the same,as mentioned before. The flange spacing is different. The PT hub does not build as stiff as the others I think that's what the local builder is thinking


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## yakstone (Dec 18, 2011)

I used Sapim C-xrays all the way around on one set of 24 / 28 C2s - Alchemy Hubs; and Aerolite front with DT Revs / Comps rear on another set of 24 / 28 C2s - White Industries hubs


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## prglewis (Mar 31, 2012)

So in the end I decided on 24/32 rather than 18/24 (which were my two viable options). Thanks to everyone on the forum who commented, all the advice was really great.

I had a longer conversation with the wheel builder and he said that both would be "fine", but that the 18/24 would be a bit more flexible and also less durable. Basically it would need more regular maintenance, i.e. possibly truing a couple of times a year. He said that broken spokes would not be an issue with both setups with a good build.

I'm really looking forward to getting the wheels, I'll try to report back with any thoughts/issues.


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