# November Rail 52s Finally Here



## SauronHimself (Nov 21, 2012)

I'm like a kid in a toy store right now. UPS delivered these about an hour ago. My bike's rebuilding phase is finally complete now that I've acquired the new wheels. I got these wheels because I finally had an excuse to buy carbon wheels for the bling factor without breaking the bank, but I didn't want to go cheap and get shoddy Chinese versions. After my ROL Race SLs were destroyed in my accident, I got a check to replace them in full, so I didn't have to dig too much out of pocket to get these Rails. Plainly and simply, I was looking for a carbon set that offered the best bang for the buck as far as I could measure it. I stumbled across November a while back and have been following them in their development of this carbon clincher both through their website and their Facebook page. I liked the fact that the owners Dave and Mike are very forthright guys who don't sugar coat anything, and it's evident in the way they write their blogs. Dave's customer service throughout my purchase has been exemplary. I originally ordered my Rails with Chris King R45 hubs because it was either those or the stock Novatecs which I didn't fancy, so I splurged the extra $443 for the R45s. About two weeks after I placed my order, I saw on the November FB page that customers could now get Rails with T11 hubs by White Industries. This is what I'd originally wanted, but I didn't have that option at the time, and the only builder who offered T11s on Rail 52 rims was Ergott Wheels, but he wanted $1750 for the set. My first thought was, "Maybe when they serve ice water in hell." Luckily, though, Dave switched out the hubs to the T11s and refunded me the difference immediately. As I understand it, the Rails are being sold at an "introductory" price of $1285 until the market penetration is higher, so if you're considering carbon wheels and don't want to burn a big hole in the pocket, now may be the time. Plus, the upgrade to T11 hubs is only $140, which I'm sure any builder will tell you is a steal.

I obviously haven't gotten to ride them yet since I've only had them an hour, but at first glance they're built very well. The wheels are both true and look absolutely fantastic. I kinda wish the decals were bigger as to fill up more space on the rim faring, but overall the fit and finish is very nice. I'll be pairing these with Conti GP4000s 25c tires and the included Black Prince pads. As far as my performance expectations are concerned, I don't expect them to be any faster than my old ROLs. They rim weights are very similar, and the overall weights are exactly the same (1525g). Again, I primarily bought these for looks. If I do have any realistic performance expectations, I hope they feel a bit more stable as these wheels are 25 mm wide at the brake track, whereas my ROLs were 19 mm wide (2012 models). It would also be nice if these Firecrest-esque rim shapes fare better in cross winds. The winds up here coming off Round Lake and Lake Saratoga can get nasty sometimes.


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## r1lee (Jul 22, 2012)

Nice, I was going to purchase these wheels with the white industry hubs also. I ended up finding 404's at a great price I couldn't give up.

When I looked at these, the only options were ck and novatec. I was just going to buy the rims and have my lbs build them for me. Now I see that they are offering the build right off of their site.


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## BillyWayne (Aug 1, 2011)

I look forward to hearing more from you about your experience with these. I too was thinking the rail with WI hubs would be a great choice.


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## SauronHimself (Nov 21, 2012)

Today I got around to installing them and getting the brake pads angled correctly. I'm pretty busy today getting stuff handled before my vacation tomorrow, so I may not get to test these out until Monday.


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## upstateSC-rider (Aug 21, 2004)

Never heard of 'em but perfect spoke count (imo), nice and wide, and look fast...Can't wait for a report.


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## SauronHimself (Nov 21, 2012)

I didn't go full-tilt boogie on a test ride. I took it out for 30 minutes to see how they felt and to also make sure that I wasn't too far from home in case something else broke. After all, this bike collided with a minivan 2.5 months ago, so I'm double checking everything. Overall, I enjoyed the limited time I had on these. They spun up just as quickly as my old ROLs, and naturally the rims had the quintessential carbon howl, but I personally like the sound. If it's easier for people to hear me coming, then hypothetically I'm a tad safer. The wide rims definitely felt more stable in a straight line. I didn't wobble around like I did with 19 mm wide rims. They were very stable in corners, but I also attribute that to trying out 25c tires (finally) instead of my staple 23c. I didn't experience any strong gusts of wind today, so I can't yet comment on how well these fare in cross winds.


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## Gamecocktaco (Sep 30, 2009)

loving mine... have had for nearly 2 months now, so several hundred miles. I just got the stock novatec hubs and have zero complaints with them. Very smooth. I have GP4000S 23 mms on mine and they are awesome. Mike and Dave were both very helpful as I was deciding on wheels and actually talked me out of spending the extra on the CK hubs. Enjoy them and good luck finding that ring. 

UpstateSCRider, mine have been rolling around the Columbia area most of this time. I checked November and Boyd and decided on November mostly due to weight savings over Boyd's. Though his were awfully tempting, too.


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## demonrider (Jul 18, 2012)

Go for a proper 60+ ride already, geez! 

Seriously though, congrats! I am eyeing a set of these for the weekly crits, Summer of 2014. And since I have time 'til then, looking forward to hearing full ride impressions and maybe even an update some months down the line of how they hold up and how the braking behaves through various terrain and weather.


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## upstateSC-rider (Aug 21, 2004)

Gamecocktaco said:


> loving mine... have had for nearly 2 months now, so several hundred miles. I just got the stock novatec hubs and have zero complaints with them. Very smooth. I have GP4000S 23 mms on mine and they are awesome. Mike and Dave were both very helpful as I was deciding on wheels and actually talked me out of spending the extra on the CK hubs. Enjoy them and good luck finding that ring.
> 
> *UpstateSCRider, mine have been rolling around the Columbia area most of this time. I checked November and Boyd and decided on November mostly due to weight savings over Boyd's. Though his were awfully tempting, too.*


He's a helluva guy, given the choice between the two I'd pick the local guy but those Novembers look nice.


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## Wyville (Jun 19, 2013)

@SauronHimself
Very nice wheels and they look amazing on the bike! Hope you have some great rides on those. Have a great vacation!



upstateSC-rider said:


> He's a helluva guy, given the choice between the two I'd pick the local guy but those Novembers look nice.


I've been talking to Boyd and he's a great guy for sure. He told me he's now moving into the EU market and explained some of his efforts, it all sounds really good. 

I am considering both the Rail 52 and a set of Boyd's 44mm, the problem is that I live in Europe. Strada Wheels in the UK is supposed to be the exclusive wheel builder for the Rail 52 and with anything other than the Novatec hubs, the wheels are very expensive (similar to Zipp). So Boyd has the edge, although I first have to make sure I have a job in two months time before I know how much (if any) I can spend on the wheels.


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## Gamecocktaco (Sep 30, 2009)

I debated long and hard between the two. In the end, saving $100 and 100 grams won out, not to mention the slightly deeper rim of the Rails for a little more aero help. But, several around me have the Boyd's and love 'em as much as I love my Rails.


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## smarkgraf (May 17, 2009)

I've had mine for about 5 weeks now and almost 800 miles. Mine have the Novatech hubs(T11's weren't available) and I love them. I'm running Conti GP4k's(23mm). I did a 64 mile ride on Sat with hills and fast descents and a pretty gusty wind from every direction during the course of the ride with no real handling issues. My only annoyance, is that I can't get the brakes dialed in to my satisfaction. I get some hi pitched squealing out of the front under hard braking. I'm pretty sure it's me, since this is my first set of carbons. Whenever I have questions, both Dave and Mike ave very quick to respond and have been very helpful.


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## Dunbar (Aug 8, 2010)

I saw these over on weight weenies. Time-wise they are within a few seconds of a Zipp 404 FC in a 40K TT according to November's wind tunnel tests for 1/3 less money. I can't say I'm crazy about flannel/striped look to the carbon on these rims though. I personally don't think I could live with a carbon brake track here in (very urban) Los Angeles.


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## r1lee (Jul 22, 2012)

Dunbar said:


> I saw these over on weight weenies. Time-wise they are within a few seconds of a Zipp 404 FC in a 40K TT according to November's wind tunnel tests for 1/3 less money. I can't say I'm crazy about flannel/striped look to the carbon on these rims though. I personally don't think I could live with a carbon brake track here in (very urban) Los Angeles.


Why not? Does it rain much there? Carbon brake track is just as good as aluminum in the dry.


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## Dunbar (Aug 8, 2010)

r1lee said:


> Carbon brake track is just as good as aluminum in the dry.


Um, no it isn't. Not even according to November Bicycles.


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## Gamecocktaco (Sep 30, 2009)

Dunbar said:


> Um, no it isn't. Not even according to November Bicycles.


I ride mostly in rolling terrain with nothing major as far as descents, but plenty of 35 mph ones and I can't say I've noticed much braking difference between the Rails and my Easton EA70s. Might be the brake pads, might be in my head, but they seem to stop just fine for me, albeit with a little bit of front squeal to mine, too, as has been mentioned.

Even in wet, they weren't horrible, though I did make a point to start stopping earlier. By nature, I'm fairly cautious as a rider, so I can't say as to how they will do for someone who is pushing it harder than I do, though.

For the record, I weigh about 170 or so if that factors into what anyone is considering with the wheels and braking.


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## r1lee (Jul 22, 2012)

Dunbar said:


> Um, no it isn't. Not even according to November Bicycles.


first, do you own carbon wheels? according to your post it doesn't look like it.

I own a few sets of carbon and aluminum. In the dry, there's a difference in braking due to the material but Carbon brakes just as good, but does have squealing when braking hard.

In the wet, it's totally different, it takes carbon almost a full rotation of the wheel before there is bite.


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## Dunbar (Aug 8, 2010)

No, I don't own carbon rims. I've heard some owners claim they brake _almost_ as well as aluminum but most acknowledge that there isn't much of a comparison. If you ride in wide open spaces the "aero" benefits may trump the reduced braking effectiveness. Braking is not something I'm willing to compromise on here in Los Angeles. I also want the ability to do some descents without worrying about overheating the brake track but that's a whole different topic.


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## SauronHimself (Nov 21, 2012)

I got my first real shakedown ride on these wheels today, and they're even better than I had hoped. My assumption is that these wheels would accelerate and hold speed similarly to my old ROL Race SLs since the overall weights and rim weights were the same. However, I found that these Rails liked to hold slightly higher speeds with the same effort. I did get some gusty cross winds, but I was pleasantly surprised to discover that my front wheel didn't get blown all over the place. Braking performance wasn't as good as aluminum as I expected, but I usually anticipate when I need to brake so that I'm not in a tight spot. All in all I'm very impressed with their performance and the way they complement the look of my bike.


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## demonrider (Jul 18, 2012)

SauronHimself said:


> I got my first real shakedown ride on these wheels today, and they're even better than I had hoped. My assumption is that these wheels would accelerate and hold speed similarly to my old ROL Race SLs since the overall weights and rim weights were the same. However, I found that these Rails liked to hold slightly higher speeds with the same effort. I did get some gusty cross winds, but I was pleasantly surprised to discover that my front wheel didn't get blown all over the place. Braking performance wasn't as good as aluminum as I expected, but I usually anticipate when I need to brake so that I'm not in a tight spot. All in all I'm very impressed with their performance and the way they complement the look of my bike.


Great, sounds like they'll work well for flat crits and road races. One question though, that 1525g weight you mentioned in the OP, is it with T11 upgrade or is that with the default Novatec hubs? Because if the rims are around 500g each and they use 20/24 CX-Rays with T11 hubs, the wheelset should be pretty close to 1600g without skewers.


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## Gamecocktaco (Sep 30, 2009)

demonrider said:


> Great, sounds like they'll work well for flat crits and road races. One question though, that 1525g weight you mentioned in the OP, is it with T11 upgrade or is that with the default Novatec hubs? Because if the rims are around 500g each and they use 20/24 CX-Rays with T11 hubs, the wheelset should be pretty close to 1600g without skewers.


pretty sure that weight is with the novatecs per November's website. If the T11's weigh more don't see how they keep the weight the same as the novatecs when all else is equal.


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## SauronHimself (Nov 21, 2012)

demonrider said:


> Great, sounds like they'll work well for flat crits and road races. One question though, that 1525g weight you mentioned in the OP, is it with T11 upgrade or is that with the default Novatec hubs? Because if the rims are around 500g each and they use 20/24 CX-Rays with T11 hubs, the wheelset should be pretty close to 1600g without skewers.


The T11 set weighs about 20g more than the Novatecs (stop traffic!). Considering that November allows a 20g margin of error for their rim weights, that's pretty much negligible. When I picked them up I couldn't feel the slightest difference, so that's good enough for me.


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## demonrider (Jul 18, 2012)

SauronHimself said:


> The T11 set weighs about 20g more than the Novatecs (stop traffic!). Considering that November allows a 20g margin of error for their rim weights, that's pretty much negligible. When I picked them up I couldn't feel the slightest difference, so that's good enough for me.


Agreed, 20g is nothing, I was more concerned about the difference being closer to 100g. The T11s are heavier in my imagination than in reality, I guess. I will go with the upgrade when I'm ready to order.


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## SauronHimself (Nov 21, 2012)

demonrider said:


> Agreed, 20g is nothing, I was more concerned about the difference being closer to 100g. The T11s are heavier in my imagination than in reality, I guess. I will go with the upgrade when I'm ready to order.


Not to be pushy, but you should probably decide sooner than later. November said that their pricing on the Rail 52s is intro pricing to get market penetration and that they will increase in the near future. When exactly that will be is yet to unfold. That being said, $1285 for toroidal carbon wheels benchmarked against Zipp 404s is a pretty good deal in my opinion, and $140 extra to get T11 hubs is equally as good of a deal.


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## nis240sxt (Oct 6, 2004)

Thanks for the review, thinking about picking a set of these up also before the price goes up. Can you tell me why you went with T11s instead of novatecs? Trying to decide is the extra $$ is worth it for the T11s. Thanks and love the bike!


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## SauronHimself (Nov 21, 2012)

nis240sxt said:


> Thanks for the review, thinking about picking a set of these up also before the price goes up. Can you tell me why you went with T11s instead of novatecs? Trying to decide is the extra $$ is worth it for the T11s. Thanks and love the bike!


The T11s have developed a reputation for being the best value currently available. You get the most bang for your buck in other words. These hubs roll well, are very durable, and are easy to maintain without special tools. I'm not particularly a fan of cheap Chinese hubs like Novatecs, and they've had a motley response from their consumers regarding their durability.


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## ergott (Feb 26, 2006)

What's this?











I've been testing out the rims. Very impressed so far.

First built.








On the way to D2R2 (dirt rando)








Off season testing









Mine are built to Alchemy hubs, but hard to beat the T11/Rail 52 combo.


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## Clipped_in (May 5, 2011)

Sexy hoops!


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## Newnan3 (Jul 8, 2011)

What fenders do you have there??


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## demonrider (Jul 18, 2012)

SauronHimself said:


> Not to be pushy, but you should probably decide sooner than later. November said that their pricing on the Rail 52s is intro pricing to get market penetration and that they will increase in the near future. When exactly that will be is yet to unfold


Yes, but unfortunately when exactly the funds for this wheelset materialize, has also yet to unfold.  

Actually I have the money, it's just being diverted towards my winter training and commuting steel rig, and membership at the local velodrome. I'm hoping I can get the Rail 52s for this coming spring (EO-March). Hopefully I'll have them well before the road races.


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## skinewmexico (Apr 19, 2010)

I really, really wanted a set of these, but was too impatient to wait for them last fall. Found a great deal on some Jet Express 5s, but every time I see the Novembers, I still want some. My HEDs have been amazing in big West Texas crosswinds, I would expect the Novembers to be similar.


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## ergott (Feb 26, 2006)

Newnan3 said:


> What fenders do you have there??


Portland Full Metal Fenders. Nice to work with.


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