# Do I need a new bike?



## jkl1224 (Sep 24, 2016)

I am currently riding a Trek Mt. Bike as a bicycle for my 25 mile round trip commute. I decided to give my kids the cars for college and ride my bike to work and home. I ride on a paved bike trail with moderate incline. The bike I am riding is one of my kids when they were between child and adult. It is a bit too small for me but I manage fine. I live in Michigan and have been told I should have a road bike for what I am doing. I am into my 3rd month and love it and take a detour to ride around the local metro park...a 12 mile extra ride on paved bike path with moderate incline. I don't know what difference a road bike would make for my ride and will be riding in some snow I'm sure as the weather changes. Thanks for any advice you can give.


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## wim (Feb 28, 2005)

jkl1224 said:


> I live in Michigan and have been told I should have a road bike for what I am doing.


You seem to enjoy what you're doing, so I'm not sure why someone would tell you that. A road bike would be faster given the same effort, so you could get your bike ride over with a little sooner. But you're taking detours for the joy of it, so that wouldn't make any sense. I'm not knocking road cycling, that's all I do. But I would never tell anyone who's happily riding a mountain bike on asphalt to get a road bike. 

Now, if they would ask me how to ride faster and longer, well, that's a whole nother thing....


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## jkl1224 (Sep 24, 2016)

I am a teacher. This summer I started riding 30+ miles a day. I'm over 50 and used to Mt. Bike when I had kids...mind you with them in a bike trailer...ugh. I just started riding now that we have this bike trail by the house. I love it. I did feel like I was "slow" this summer. Average speed about 15mph. Sometimes I want to go faster. I'm worried if I go to a thinner tire in the winter I may have issues...thinking what I have may not even work but willing to X-Ski


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## duriel (Oct 10, 2013)

If u are riding mostly a MUT, having a road bike is not really an advantage, unless the MUT is not busy. 
So, regardless, yes, you need a new bike.


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## jetdog9 (Jul 12, 2007)

You're biking plenty and it's on paved stuff so you should consider a road bike. Once you get used to it you'll feel like you've switched from a Honda Accord to a Fort GT...


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## jkl1224 (Sep 24, 2016)

Ok so I know little about bikes. I bought my TREK Mt. Bike 20 years ago. If I go to get a road bike.....what am I looking for? I try reading about bikes and I feel like I am learning a new language. I always just got on it and rode. Did little to nothing with it. Rode them and towed kids. 

I would be riding 20-40 miles a day I would say on mostly paved surfaces. Some roads I cross are gravel. Thanks for any help or advice. I am commuting...as well and right now I carry my clothes from the day and papers to check in a sling backpack. IDK if I will need something bigger or more durable. Looking for any advice. Thanks


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## bikerector (Oct 31, 2012)

As an alternative, you may consider a flat bar road bike which has a more heads-up position, like you're used to, and are generally more durable and lower priced.

If you're going to shop at a bike shop, test ride some bikes to get a feel for them. Don't get caught up on the lingo and all, just ride a bunch of bikes and get familiar with what feels more "right" from one bike to the next. I personally like renting bikes for a weekend if possible to really get a good feel and then put on a bunch of hours of riding, especially with trail bikes.

I'm also located in MI, SE Michigan to be more exact. For winter, hands down get studded tires if you plan to do it consistently. Knobs are okay in snow but do nothing for ice or hardpack, glazed over snow and that is especially the case for ruts and bumps/ snowy potholes. If you do want a road-type bike (drop bars) then look at something like a cyclocross bike that would accept the studded tires which are wider than most road bikes can accept.


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## hfc (Jan 24, 2003)

Of course you need a new bike, that is always the answer to any bike question!

As a cheaper alternative you could just try some slick tires. If you don't feel beat up and saddle sore after riding the mtb then I'd think it's OK.


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## velodog (Sep 26, 2007)

I would say to look at a road bike with high volume tires. Maybe a rack to carry things on the bike instead of your back, and since it's a commuter good aluminum fenders and lights.

I've taken to riding a low trail bike set up as such and am incredibly happy with it. The low trail allows the load to be carried on the front of the bike where it impacts the handling less and the fenders and lights allow riding comfortably in most conditions.

My bike has a rather large handlebar bag and rides like it isn't there, and I've probably had 15lbs up there. If you need more than that, front low riders and panniers would do or a "porteur" rack and bag, which is a larger front rack made to carry larger items. The lights are powered by a front hub generator so no need to worry about batteries.

This isn't a "race bike" but a good handling "all road" practical bike that is fun to ride.


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## Rashadabd (Sep 17, 2011)

+1 on you don't really _need_ to make a change. What you are doing is great and if you are having fun, that's superb in and of itself. That being said, I think you might have fun riding on a flat bar road bike or an adventure/endurance drop bar bike. There are tons of models at every price point out there to choose from. My recommendation is to hit a few bike shops one weekend and take some test rides and/or spins in the parking lot to see what you think.


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## Lombard (May 8, 2014)

jkl1224 said:


> The bike I am riding is one of my kids when they were between child and adult. It is a bit too small for me but I manage fine.



Until I read this part, I was going to say, no, you don't need a new bike. That is until I read this part.

A bike that doesn't fit is a bike that:

1) You are less efficient on.

2) May cause a repetitive use injury over time.

The latter is a big issue. As you get older, if you keep riding a bike that doesn't fit, your body will let you know. Especially if it's too small, your knees may start talking. And trust me, you don't want to do any irreversible damage. 

So yes, I would say you need a new bike. You don't necessarily need a road bike for the type of riding you do, but you need a bike THAT FITS. Most importantly, go to a reputable bike shop that will give you a detailed fitting with a bike purchase. That is one where they put you and your new bike on a trainer, watch you pedal and make adjustments to tweak your fit just right. 

If you think you may ride some dirt trails at some point, you may want to look into a gravel, touring or even a hybrid bike. There are many good choices out there.


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## Opus51569 (Jul 21, 2009)

Sounds like you already know the answer to your question, OP, and are looking more for affirmation. NTTAWWT. As an anonymous stranger to you, I have absolutely no qualms telling you hell yes! Buy a road bike. n+1 and all that...

Seriously, though, if you're using it as transportation, it should be something that fits you properly, is efficient and enjoyable to ride. You only live once... twice if you're Buddhist...


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## fiziks (Jul 22, 2016)

+2 on fit. You don't necessarily need a road bike. But you should have a bike that fits properly. If you have any aches, pain or numbness during/after a ride, it is most likely due to fit. It certainly was for me, once I got a bike that fit properly, all that stuff went away.


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## Lombard (May 8, 2014)

fiziks said:


> +2 on fit. You don't necessarily need a road bike. But you should have a bike that fits properly. If you have any aches, pain or numbness after a ride, it is most likely due to fit. It certainly was for me, once I got a bike that fit properly, all that stuff went away.




This.


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## blackfrancois (Jul 6, 2016)

if a bicycle is your primary mode of transportation, you have room for a second bike and you can afford it, get another one.

i ride vintage road. you can usually find a really good one for $400.

if you have $100 of bike tools, you can often find a good one (that needs some work) for $200 or less.

i recommend buying the tools and overhauling the bike yourself. if you do this a couple of times and flip the bikes you don't need, they pay for themselves and you can upgrade at will.


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## jkl1224 (Sep 24, 2016)

Thanks so much to all of you for the thoughtful advice. Today I rode to school in the dark with the moon and stars to light the rails to trail path I take to work. I absolutely love this start to my day. When I left school I took the detour to the metro park and I did three 6 mile laps around a beautiful lake...still on paved trails. On my way out of the park I pulled off and did some off road riding on the mountain bike trails. Oh how I loved this part of my day. The wild turkeys, the deer, the hills and bends in the trail and the crazy bouncing around. I absolutely loved my whole day. I returned to the rail to trails paved trail and met up with 6 male bike riders on their "road bikes" I hung with them for most of the next three miles but no matter how hard I peddled I just couldn't keep up. Thus...the need or want for a new bike. I know I need one that fits better....but now I don't know if I want to give up the mountain bike for the speed on the paved trails. Also, I hope to ride as much as I can in the winter and those thin tires that were riding with me today don't look like they will last in a Michigan winter....Again, thanks so much for all of the thoughtful advice. I think today confused me even more. 28 miles on the paved trails and 6 miles in the woods today. I can't decide what I enjoy more. So thankful I gave my cars to my kids.


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## jkl1224 (Sep 24, 2016)

Thanks so much to all of you for the thoughtful advice. Today I rode to school in the dark with the moon and stars to light the rails to trail path I take to work. I absolutely love this start to my day. When I left school I took the detour to the metro park and I did three 6 mile laps around a beautiful lake...still on paved trails. On my way out of the park I pulled off and did some off road riding on the mountain bike trails. Oh how I loved this part of my day. The wild turkeys, the deer, the hills and bends in the trail and the crazy bouncing around. I absolutely loved my whole day. I returned to the rail to trails paved trail and met up with 6 male bike riders on their "road bikes" I hung with them for most of the next three miles but no matter how hard I peddled I just couldn't keep up. Thus...the need or want for a new bike. I know I need one that fits better....but now I don't know if I want to give up the mountain bike for the speed on the paved trails. Also, I hope to ride as much as I can in the winter and those thin tires that were riding with me today don't look like they will last in a Michigan winter....Again, thanks so much for all of the thoughtful advice. I think today confused me even more. 28 miles on the paved trails and 6 miles in the woods today. I can't decide what I enjoy more. So thankful I gave my cars to my kids.


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## bikerector (Oct 31, 2012)

Tires are pretty easy to change so don't let the idea that a bike is tied to the tires that come on it when you buy it.

I've ridden a lot of trails with a drop bar, you just need to get the right bike with good versatility. I don't think you're after a road bike (road bike often meaning a road race bike or only for road) but there are many options that would look and act like a road bike that would easily be trail friendly. Gravel road bikes, cyclocross bikes, and even some of the touring road bikes would be drop bar options for you to look at.


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## Lombard (May 8, 2014)

bikerector said:


> Gravel road bikes, cyclocross bikes, and even some of the touring road bikes would be drop bar options for you to look at.



These are good options to look at if you will be doing a mix of paved and non-paved riding. You may want to read up on this article on gravel/adventure bikes:

Buyer?s guide to gravel and adventure bikes plus 16 of the best | road.cc 

Many worthy contenders here. They all have road bars as well as room for wider tires which enable you to ride dirt trails and dirt roads.


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## Kerry Irons (Feb 25, 2002)

jkl1224 said:


> I am currently riding a Trek Mt. Bike as a bicycle for my 25 mile round trip commute. I decided to give my kids the cars for college and ride my bike to work and home. I ride on a paved bike trail with moderate incline. The bike I am riding is one of my kids when they were between child and adult. It is a bit too small for me but I manage fine. I live in Michigan and have been told I should have a road bike for what I am doing. I am into my 3rd month and love it and take a detour to ride around the local metro park...a 12 mile extra ride on paved bike path with moderate incline. I don't know what difference a road bike would make for my ride and will be riding in some snow I'm sure as the weather changes. Thanks for any advice you can give.


The snow is the key point. You want to stick with the mountain bike style, or if you go for a new bike get a hybrid. The challenge is that many of these bikes will have useless (for you) suspension that add weight and cost but no value for a MUT commuter. A road bike on Michigan snowy streets and trails is not a good choice. You want wider tires for sure. And unlike a road bike, where tire tread is useless, some tread features will add traction in snow.


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## crit_boy (Aug 6, 2013)

1) I hate Michigan. Cold and long winters separated by two weeks of hot in august. Seriously, we wore winter jackets to see fireworks on the 4th of july. The state has no money for anything (clean water, plow roads, etc.). No fault car insurance for everyone is crazy expensive. If you commute all year, you should win some kind of award.

2) Michigan has has lots of dirt roads. I would consider what is now marketed as gravel/adventure bikes. They have rack mounts and space for wide tires. The drop bar is more comfortable as your rides get longer. 

Good luck.


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## bikerector (Oct 31, 2012)

Kerry Irons said:


> The snow is the key point. You want to stick with the mountain bike style, or if you go for a new bike get a hybrid. The challenge is that many of these bikes will have useless (for you) suspension that add weight and cost but no value for a MUT commuter. A road bike on Michigan snowy streets and trails is not a good choice. You want wider tires for sure. And unlike a road bike, where tire tread is useless, some tread features will add traction in snow.


I will disagree with this to a point in that there are several good options for 40mm and under studded tires for cross bikes, or any drop bar bike that can take that tire width, that work very well in winter. I personally like the nokian tires but the kenda klondike is a much more affordable option that has also treated me well over the past 3-4 years of winter training miles. A drop bar is also nice for trying to duck out of the strong winter winds since no trees have leaves and there's always wind in winter.


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## Migen21 (Oct 28, 2014)

The answer to the age-old question:



> Do I need a new bike?


Is always emphatically "YES!". I have four of them and a burning desire for #5 to prove it. 

Buying a bicycle is almost always an emotional decision and almost never based on 'need' by any true definition of the word. 

Start there. Talk yourself down if you want.


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## jkl1224 (Sep 24, 2016)

Today the rain was coming down and the wind was in my face....I absolutely loved the ride and almost can't wait for the challenge each day. I really want to do this and be able to ride in the winter. Every day I would come home from school and walk my dog 3 miles regardless of the weather. The dog has moved with the daughter so I look forward to the challenge of biking the Michigan winters. I'm taking notes on all the great advice and I will be heading to the bike store this weekend. Thanks so much.


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## duriel (Oct 10, 2013)

I would get a gravel bike with mounts or a touring bike, maybe one with up or down bars.
You need something you can put big tires on.


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## Lombard (May 8, 2014)

jkl1224 said:


> Today the rain was coming down and the wind was in my face....I absolutely loved the ride and almost can't wait for the challenge each day. I really want to do this and be able to ride in the winter. Every day I would come home from school and walk my dog 3 miles regardless of the weather. The dog has moved with the daughter so I look forward to the challenge of biking the Michigan winters. I'm taking notes on all the great advice and I will be heading to the bike store this weekend. Thanks so much.




You are a hardy soul for sure! I bike in cold and heat, but don't deal with riding in rain and snow very well.

Sounds like a gravel/adventure bike is what you need!


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## PJ352 (Dec 5, 2007)

jkl1224 said:


> On my way out of the park I pulled off and did some off road riding on the mountain bike trails. Oh how I loved this part of my day. The wild turkeys, the deer, the hills and bends in the trail and the crazy bouncing around.


Until I read this, I would have suggested a gravel/ CX bike, but I'm not sure that wouldn't be a compromise on both paved roads and the trails you're riding. Only you can decide that.

One solution is two bikes. Keep the mtn bike for off roading, go with a suitable road bike for paved roads - and that may be a CX bike.


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## Peanya (Jun 12, 2008)

I guess you've not read the rules of cycling. N+1. I have a coworker who just got a road bike from a MTB, and he's pleased as punch at how much better it rides on the road. If you love riding, you'll love a road bike. 
Do keep the MTB, or consider an adventure/gravel bike as well.


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## velodog (Sep 26, 2007)

Worth reading.

https://janheine.wordpress.com/2016/03/17/prepare-for-gravel-riding/


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## Lombard (May 8, 2014)

velodog said:


> Worth reading.
> 
> https://janheine.wordpress.com/2016/03/17/prepare-for-gravel-riding/




Excellent article, Velodog!


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## Lombard (May 8, 2014)

PJ352 said:


> Until I read this, I would have suggested a gravel/ CX bike, but I'm not sure that would be a compromise on both paved roads and the trails you're riding. Only you can decide that.
> 
> One solution is two bikes. Keep the mtn bike for off roading, go with a suitable road bike for paved roads - and that may be a CX bike.



Correct me if I'm wrong, but it appears to be the only difference between a gravel/adventure bike and a CX bike is that gravel/adventure bikes tend to have more upright relaxed geometry. If you like being upright, get a gravel/adventure bike. If you like the low race position, get a CX bike.

And unless you are going to ride competitively on pavement only, I don't see the need for an exclusively road bike.


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## velodog (Sep 26, 2007)

Lombard said:


> Correct me if I'm wrong, but it appears to be the only difference between a gravel/adventure bike and a CX bike is that gravel/adventure bikes tend to have more upright relaxed geometry. If you like being upright, get a gravel/adventure bike. If you like the low race position, get a CX bike.
> 
> And unless you are going to ride competitively on pavement only, I don't see the need for an exclusively road bike.


I don't know that a gravel bike needs to have a "relaxed" geometry. More to the point would be clearances for large volume tires with a geometry that meshes with tire size.

My all road is built around 650b wheels running 42mm tires with a 73deg head tube. That's the same as my Della Santa head tube that's running 700c wheels and 25mm tires. The difference is in the trail, the 650b is running about 30mm of trail while the Della Santa is running somewhere around 50mm.
If I understand it correctly pneumatic trail lies behind the center of the contact patch of the tire, effectively lengthening the trail as the volume of the tire grows. Larger volume tire, lower pressure=longer contact patch. It may be better served to change the fork rake in stead of changing the head angle. More fork rake shortens the trail while larger volume tires lengthen the trail.

For what it's worth Bicycle Quarterly recommends 700c no larger than 32mm or maybe 38mm(I don't remember off hand) tires, 650b no larger than 42mm tires and 26" for anything larger than that. Rotational mass and handling characteristics.


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## PJ352 (Dec 5, 2007)

Lombard said:


> Correct me if I'm wrong, but it appears to be the only difference between a gravel/adventure bike and a CX bike is that gravel/adventure bikes tend to have more upright relaxed geometry. If you like being upright, get a gravel/adventure bike. If you like the low race position, get a CX bike.
> 
> And unless you are going to ride competitively on pavement only, I don't see the need for an exclusively road bike.


As with most things marketing related, there's a dose of (marketing) hype, minor differences (in design/ geo) and gray areas. 

Here's an article that addresses some of what you've mentioned.
Buyer?s guide to gravel and adventure bikes plus 16 of the best | road.cc


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## Lombard (May 8, 2014)

PJ352 said:


> As with most things marketing related, there's a dose of (marketing) hype, minor differences (in design/ geo) and gray areas.
> 
> Here's an article that addresses some of what you've mentioned.
> Buyer?s guide to gravel and adventure bikes plus 16 of the best | road.cc



Which is the same article I linked to in my post #19.


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## PJ352 (Dec 5, 2007)

Lombard said:


> Which is the same article I linked to in my post #19.


Ah.... good choice! :thumbsup:


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## jkl1224 (Sep 24, 2016)

Thanks for the great read. Funny I grew up in the country on gravel roads. Nearest neighbor was 3 miles away. I would ride my Schwinn 10 speed every day to her house on the gravel roads. As I got older I rode that bike everywhere. Funny how advanced things have become. Life was simple. You got on your bike and rode with a pair of converse tennis shoes ....Thanks again. You folks have given me so much to think about.


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## PJay (May 28, 2004)

Since you are new, I will explain "n+1."
It is the formula, developed through years of research and complex mathematical calculations to determine whether you need another bike.

Number of bikes I need = n+1.

n = number of bikes you own

The number of bikes you need at any given moment can be calculated by entering your value for n in the equation, then solving the equation.


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## Lombard (May 8, 2014)

jkl1224 said:


> Thanks for the great read. Funny I grew up in the country on gravel roads. Nearest neighbor was 3 miles away. I would ride my Schwinn 10 speed every day to her house on the gravel roads. As I got older I rode that bike everywhere. Funny how advanced things have become. Life was simple. You got on your bike and rode with a pair of converse tennis shoes ....Thanks again. You folks have given me so much to think about.



Isn't it interesting how as kids, we used to ride without all the comforts we have today? And we never complained about saddle discomfort, not enough gears, too much weight, etc.? We just rode. Though we didn't ride as many miles then.


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## Shuffleman (Sep 4, 2013)

If you have to ask, than yes...You need a new bike...but only if you can afford one.


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## jkl1224 (Sep 24, 2016)

New question...I started riding this summer as soon as school let out. Almost every morning at 6:30 AM and would ride 20-40 miles a day. We really didn't have any bad weather days almost the whole summer. Hot days yes....but I was home before the heat hit. However, the past two days have been rough. Not hard to ride but the rain and wind have a bit much. I need new advice. What is the best rain gear to buy that I won't over heat in? I have a gortex type rain suit from golfing. I think I would die...it is over 20 years old from golfing in Myrtle Beach. My shoes were soaked and my glasses kept fogging up at every cross walk. Thankfully I only have about 7 of those my whole trip home. Any advice on keeping school papers dry in my backpack or maybe a pack for the bike. I'm not complaining. I loved the ride. Loved the rain etc. However, with the cool weather on the way I think I'm going to need some better riding attire. Looking forward to hearing from all you experts. I love and appreciate your advice. BTW the mountain bike was awesome in all the heavy rain and very slick areas of wet leaf build up


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## Lombard (May 8, 2014)

jkl1224 said:


> Any advice on keeping school papers dry in my backpack ......


This one is easy. Wear your rain jacket OVER your backpack.


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## Migen21 (Oct 28, 2014)

jkl1224 said:


> Any advice on keeping school papers dry in my backpack or maybe a pack for the bike.


Packpack under a loose rain jacket is a good suggestion.

There are some good waterproof backpacks and panniers out there if you look around. Ortlieb are probably the most well known, but they are fairly expensive.


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## Tachycardic (Mar 31, 2013)

You had me at "I decided to give my kids the cars for college..."

The. Kids. Are. Off. To. College. Think, McFly! Think! That alone warrants a new bike or two. And don't forget to convert their rooms into bike garages.


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## jkl1224 (Sep 24, 2016)

Yes, I agree. I'm currently riding my sons bike that he grew out of my son is 6'4" the bike I ride is a Trek 4300 we bought for him around 2003. It is in great condition. However, it is a bit small for me. 5'8". I want to get a new bike...however, this one works and I just don't know enough or anything about bikes to justify getting a new one. People pass me....when I'm peddling as hard/fast as I can. I know the tires are smaller....I wanted to know the difference in road bikes and if it was a big enough difference that I needed to go and spend $400-$800+ on a new bike. I'm trying to save me an additional car payment as well as I am absolutely loving what I am doing. I appreciate the advice  

Sincerely,

"McFly"


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## jkl1224 (Sep 24, 2016)

I have found a bike on Craigslist ...IDK if that is the route to go. It is a 2010 Trek 1.5 Triple WSD they want $450. Has hardly been ridden. He got it for his wife hoping that she would ride. It is 58cm that is what the bike shop said I should be riding. I'm so confused. Don't know if I should get something like this first or buy new???


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## RepartoToad (Jul 26, 2016)

I bought one of these ten years ago and it is still going strong. Waterproof - I carry a macbook and no problems. The best part is the bright reflective stripes. If you are ever caught without a light, they do the job. Manhattan Portage : Pro Bike Messenger Bag with Stripes (MD)


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## jkl1224 (Sep 24, 2016)

That looks great. I don't want to have bags connected to my bike. I have to keep it parked by my class door. I had a light on it and it was gone. I like being able to take everything into my room and be set when it is time to go. Looks big enough to carry my clothes and shoes as well. Thanks for the info. I have only ridden with a sling backpack. I don't carry a laptop or anything like that. How is this in comparison. I like to go off the roads and head to a large state park with paved bike trails and ride there for about 24 miles before I go home for another 10 or so. Would this be difficult to ride with like that? I really appreciate the advice.


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## Migen21 (Oct 28, 2014)

The Ortlieb bags I mentioned literally just hang on a pannier rack. To remove them, just pull up on the handle/strap and sling it over your shoulder and it becomes a shoulder bag.






There are plenty of similar designs out there. As with many things, you get what you pay for. 

You can avoid the extra cost of the waterproof bags if you only deal with rain occasionally, you can find other workarounds (jacket over the bag, plastic garbage bag, etc...), but if you are in this for the long haul, and plan to ride through the winters, a good set of bags like this is invaluable.

They come in two sizes. For commuting, the smaller ones (front roller/sport roller I think they are called) are probably adequate. The 'Rear Rollers' are much larger, which means more bulk and more weight (and more capacity). Really more suited to touring/camping, etc...


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## RepartoToad (Jul 26, 2016)

jkl1224 said:


> That looks great. I don't want to have bags connected to my bike. I have to keep it parked by my class door. I had a light on it and it was gone. I like being able to take everything into my room and be set when it is time to go. Looks big enough to carry my clothes and shoes as well. Thanks for the info. I have only ridden with a sling backpack. I don't carry a laptop or anything like that. How is this in comparison. I like to go off the roads and head to a large state park with paved bike trails and ride there for about 24 miles before I go home for another 10 or so. Would this be difficult to ride with like that? I really appreciate the advice.


Mmm. I dont think riding with a bag on your body is ideal for longer commutes or rides hence other's suggestions for racks etc. As long as I have some weight in that bag it stays put on me and I wouldnt hesitate to use it in the situation you describe. You can adjust the strap to control where it sits on your back like other bags. As long as you dont go too heavy, it should be fine. I have carried a case of beer in it, but I would not have liked that for 20+ miles.


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## velodog (Sep 26, 2007)

RepartoToad said:


> Mmm. I dont think riding with a bag on your body is ideal for longer commutes or rides hence other's suggestions for racks etc. As long as I have some weight in that bag it stays put on me and I wouldnt hesitate to use it in the situation you describe. You can adjust the strap to control where it sits on your back like other bags. As long as you dont go too heavy, it should be fine. I have carried a case of beer in it, but I would not have liked that for 20+ miles.


Well with a case of beer, if it starts to get to heavy you can drink the weight down.


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## Tachycardic (Mar 31, 2013)

Full disclosure, I have not read the prior 40 posts, so I'm going to assume that you're a female as you're considering this WSD or Women's Specific Design Trek. As with any bike, budget and fit are the two most important things. Remember that the budget includes a helmet, bike lights, and appropriate biking apparel, which may or may not include cycling shoes and clipless pedals. It looks like you're in the market for a messenger bag of some sort, but you may want to also consider a bike rack with panniers.

Fit is a tricky thing because the "wow" factor of buying a new bike will trick your brain into thinking that this bike actually fits you well. It's purely psychological and instant gratification is a powerful thing. You may go to a bike shop or meet up with the CL seller, ride the bike around a parking lot or a few blocks, and then come back thinking that this bike fits and rides well at the time of sale, only to find out after logging many more miles that it actually doesn't fit very well. If you're serious about cycling, I would recommend going to a reputable bike shop and get fitted for a bike. If not, stick with your current bike and pay off your car.

As an aside, I see plenty of commuters on mountain bikes and hybrids. There's no reason to limit yourself to a road bike. Will you be faster on a road bike? Yes, most likely. But if you're not comfortable on one, then there is no advantage.


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## PBL450 (Apr 12, 2014)

brucew said:


>


Where oh where is Brucew? He's a commuter in Rochester. Studded tires, all conditions, bad azz. This is what he rides. I don't think he goes off pavement with it, but he has tons of all weather commuting experience.


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## jkl1224 (Sep 24, 2016)

Giant Mt. Bike???

Spent the day at the local bike shop where I bought my Trek 20 years ago and my son's that I ride now about 10 years ago. They now sell Giant and Specialized bikes. They felt I needed a Giant Mt. Bike. They said that tread will be what I want for snow etc. They said they are constantly fixing road bikes in the shop and felt for reliability I should go with the Mt. Bike. I am 5'8" tall and the Women's Large bicycle felt small. The Men's Medium felt small as well. The Men's Large seemed to fit the best and I was stretched out all the way. I'm so lost on what to do. When I came home and got on the old bike it is obvious that bicycle is way tooooooo small for me. The bike was listed for $570 and they will sell it to me for $425. IDK what kind it is except it was a GIANT neon yellow and white and came in black and neon yellow. The tires also said GIANT on them. I'm lost....they didn't suggest the hybrid bike due to me wanting to ride in snow conditions. Any thoughts on fit??? Should I go to the other Schwinn dealer down the road. That bike shop has been in our town for over 40 years. Thanks.


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## jkl1224 (Sep 24, 2016)




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## velodog (Sep 26, 2007)

jkl1224 said:


> Giant Mt. Bike???
> 
> Spent the day at the local bike shop where I bought my Trek 20 years ago and my son's that I ride now about 10 years ago. They now sell Giant and Specialized bikes. They felt I needed a Giant Mt. Bike. They said that tread will be what I want for snow etc. They said they are constantly fixing road bikes in the shop and felt for reliability I should go with the Mt. Bike. I am 5'8" tall and the Women's Large bicycle felt small. The Men's Medium felt small as well. The Men's Large seemed to fit the best and I was stretched out all the way. I'm so lost on what to do. When I came home and got on the old bike it is obvious that bicycle is way tooooooo small for me. The bike was listed for $570 and they will sell it to me for $425. IDK what kind it is except it was a GIANT neon yellow and white and came in black and neon yellow. The tires also said GIANT on them. I'm lost....they didn't suggest the hybrid bike due to me wanting to ride in snow conditions. Any thoughts on fit??? Should I go to the other Schwinn dealer down the road. That bike shop has been in our town for over 40 years. Thanks.


Shop around. Go to as many different shops as you can and test ride as many different types and sizes of bikes that you can. Test ride road bikes, mountain bikes, gravel and endure bikes. Try skinny tires and fat tires and get to know what you like or don't like about the different bikes. Talk to the salesmen and mechanics at the different shop and get a feel if they want to help you find what's right or unload inventory. 

Keep asking questions here and when you decide on what you want, get a good fitting to ensure the right size and then put your money down.

You can probably do everything you want to do on a road bike with room for high volume tires, but if you want a mountain bike, that can work too.


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## jkl1224 (Sep 24, 2016)

Thanks. I appreciate that. I will go to the other bike shop down the road. These guys today are high school football players that work at the bike shop on the weekend and don't really ride. A guy came in with a fat tire bike to get it fixed told my husband he paid $3000 for it and really likes it. I'm not in that price zone. They would not even let me ride the road bikes. They only had about 12 of them lowest price being $1,300 and up. They were certain that was not what I wanted or what would work with Michigan weather.


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## Lombard (May 8, 2014)

jkl1224 said:


> Thanks. I appreciate that. I will go to the other bike shop down the road. These guys today are high school football players that work at the bike shop on the weekend and don't really ride. A guy came in with a fat tire bike to get it fixed told my husband he paid $3000 for it and really likes it. I'm not in that price zone. They would not even let me ride the road bikes. They only had about 12 of them lowest price being $1,300 and up. They were certain that was not what I wanted or what would work with Michigan weather.


Velodog's advice is spot on! Test ride lots of bikes at different shops. Once you visit different shops, you will get a better feel of what size bike fits you. Keep in mind that the big difference between a women's and men's bike frame is that a women's frame has a proportionately shorter top tube and longer seat tube. Most women have proportionately longer legs than men do, but not all. Plenty of women fit better on men's frames.


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## jkl1224 (Sep 24, 2016)

Thanks for that advice. I did not feel good on the Women's bike or the Men's medium. Both felt cramped like I was back on my son's Trek bike. Not as bad but the men's fit better. Feet on the ground that bar gave little clearance. HUM????


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## velodog (Sep 26, 2007)

jkl1224 said:


> Thanks for that advice. I did not feel good on the Women's bike or the Men's medium. Both felt cramped like I was back on my son's Trek bike. Not as bad but the men's fit better. Feet on the ground that bar gave little clearance. HUM????


Clearance at the top tube is a good thing, but fit is more important when your butt is on the saddle, hands on the bars and feet on the pedals. This is why you should ride different sizes to get the feel of things. Adjust the saddle height so there is a 20\30 deg. bend at your knee when the ball of your foot is on the pedal and butt on the saddle. Fast and dirty, sit the saddle and heel on pedal with straight knee. That'll get you in the ballpark for a test ride. Any shop should do that for you, but if they won't, there are other shops.

Here's a fit calculator to give you a start 

Bike Fit Calculator | Find Your Bike Size | Competitive Cyclist

And look at youtube for bike fitting videos.

Bring a tape measure with you and once you find a seat height that works, measure from the middle of the bottom bracket to the top of the saddle along the seat tube and adjust saddle height. And then maybe hang a plumb bob from the nose of the saddle and measure from the plumb line to the middle of the bottom bracket and adjust that to match what worked. That will give you more of an apples to apples comparison. I doubt that a shop would change stems for a test ride, but once you settle on what and were you're going to buy they should change out stems to get a proper fit.

I recommend a womens saddle, or I should say, my wife recommends a womens saddle. If you already have a favorite, it may be worth bringing along, the same saddle makes it easier to compare bikes without being swayed by saddle comfort or lack of comfort.


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## PJ352 (Dec 5, 2007)

jkl1224 said:


> They would not even let me ride the road bikes. They only had about 12 of them lowest price being $1,300 and up. They were certain that was not what I wanted or what would work with Michigan weather.


I feel confident in advising you to go to other shops. This shop has (IMHO) shown itself to be unresponsive to what you're asking and overly opinionated in what (they think) you need. 

Shop for shops along with bikes. When you find a reputable shop, you'll know it. They listen to you, pay heed to your budget and promote test rides and the importance of fit.


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## jkl1224 (Sep 24, 2016)

Thanks so much that is great advice. I will bring mine with me. That is what I was thinking about when I was riding. 

They did say no to riding outside the parking lot area. The bike trail I ride on runs right in front of the shop. I ended up asking permission to ride the trail just that distance as there is a big dip there as well as a good turn and two roadways into the store to cross. I figured it was a better feel than the parking lot. They agreed I could do that. As soon as I turned onto the trail I came across an elderly man who had spilled off his bike into the grass. Helmet off and blood all over. I had to hop off my bike. Lay it on the ground and try to help this fellow. He could not speak english. UGH finally his son who was riding with him realized he was not with him and came back to gather him up. I got back on the bike and rode it down the gully and did the curve and back up the hills and driveways...but could not even pay attention to the bike I was so distracted by that crash. The bike felt better than the others...but maybe not the right feel.


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## jkl1224 (Sep 24, 2016)

Thank you. I'm going to stop by the other one we have. I may have to travel a bit to get to others. I believe I can get to two others on the bike trail I ride on but I don't know if I can get to one of them and home after work before it turns dark. I will let you know what I'm thinking before I buy. Learned a lesson today. Thanks so much.


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## jkl1224 (Sep 24, 2016)

velodog said:


> Clearance at the top tube is a good thing, but fit is more important when your butt is on the saddle, hands on the bars and feet on the pedals. This is why you should ride different sizes to get the feel of things. Adjust the saddle height so there is a 20\30 deg. bend at your knee when the ball of your foot is on the pedal and butt on the saddle. Fast and dirty, sit the saddle and heel on pedal with straight knee. That'll get you in the ballpark for a test ride. Any shop should do that for you, but if they won't, there are other shops.
> 
> Here's a fit calculator to give you a start
> 
> ...


I went to the bike shop's web page. Is it normal to charge to see if a bike fits? They charge $75 and up.....I had no one fit me or even offer...but if I had walked out the door with the bike....

Bicycle Fitting - Main Street Bicycles East Washington Lake Orion MI


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## velodog (Sep 26, 2007)

jkl1224 said:


> I went to the bike shop's web page. Is it normal to charge to see if a bike fits? They charge $75 and up.....I had no one fit me or even offer...but if I had walked out the door with the bike....
> 
> Bicycle Fitting - Main Street Bicycles East Washington Lake Orion MI


Not charging to see if a bike fits, charging to see what fits. A good fitting will give you seat height, top tube and stem length, seat to handlebar drop...numbers that can be used across different bikes so your riding position stays the same.

Have you looked at the link to the Competitive Cyclist fit calculator? You can take those measurements with the help of your husband or a friend and have a good idea of what would be needed to get started. It's a good place to get an understanding of where to start so you're not walking into the shop cold..


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## PJ352 (Dec 5, 2007)

jkl1224 said:


> I went to the bike shop's web page. Is it normal to charge to see if a bike fits? They charge $75 and up.....I had no one fit me or even offer...but if I had walked out the door with the bike....
> 
> Bicycle Fitting - Main Street Bicycles East Washington Lake Orion MI


Just some general info on bike fits.... 

Most shops include basic fittings with the purchase of a bike. That's the $75 basic fitting this shop mentions. If done correctly, it's sufficient for the majority of noobs as long as there are no previous sports injuries or other anatomical issues. 

The BG FITS were developed and marketed by Specialized as pro fits. There used to be different levels of fits, but now it looks like they're down to two. Overall, they get a good rep, but as I mentioned, it's most likely unnecessary - at least to start.


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## Lombard (May 8, 2014)

jkl1224 said:


> I went to the bike shop's web page. Is it normal to charge to see if a bike fits? They charge $75 and up.....I had no one fit me or even offer...but if I had walked out the door with the bike....
> 
> Bicycle Fitting - Main Street Bicycles East Washington Lake Orion MI



It's pretty normal to charge for a fit on a bike you didn't purchase at their store. If you bought the bike there, the fitting comes with the bike purchase - as you see with the basic fitting which is what most bike stores do.

The $150 body geometry fit is probably worth the money. The $1,000 S-Works fit sounds like a rip off.


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## bke (Aug 18, 2016)

Hello, I didn't read past page 1 but am sure you are getting great advice. I'd suggest taking this to the commuting forum since although I believe you might not necessarily need a new bike (No, you do. We all do.) you may benefit from other accessories such as racks, bags, fenders and such which I'm sure those folks might recommend. Also, probably can give you good hints on the proper clothing, It's going to get a little cool I believe.


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## jkl1224 (Sep 24, 2016)

Went to a wonderful bike shop today. Spent 2.5 hours there after riding my 25 mile ride home on my too small bike. 

They were very knowledgeable. Still can't decide what I want a new mountain bike or a road bike. I rode a Specialized Ruby road bike. Oh my goodness. I'm so sold. LOVED it he wants $1,400. I loved the fit, the ride, the smoothness the speed. It was a whole new game. 

However, today on my way around the lake that I ride laps around the paved bike trail was closed off they were clear cutting around the path. I had to ride off the path and through really bad stuff, branches, torn up ground, across gravel, and down a pretty steep slope of limestone. I loved the whole experience and left the park down a gravel/grass eroded bike path down the back slope that heads out to the main road. I loved that too. I was certain I was going to pick out a new Mt.Bike. The ones I liked that I rode were the Specialized women's Jetta Sport with hydraulic disk breaks!!! Who knew? That would run $640 a 2016 model. I also liked the men's Rockhopper sport for $570. I'm at a loss. The last bike I rode was the Ruby. I was in love and he was pulling down another that has a shock absorber in the handle bars....$2,600. I told him to just wait. It was already 7:15 the skies were turning dark and I still had 5 miles to home. I told him I would get back to him. I want BOTH. I want the Mt. Bike and I really want the road bike. He said no way could I have rode home in the pouring rain that I rode in on Thursday and Friday with the road bike. Advice? Thoughts. I needed the "L" frame in the bikes that he had me try on. It was a very good experience. What was sad...people would come in and try bikes or ask questions and leave. He would tell me they are going to buy one from the internet.  Poor guy.


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## jkl1224 (Sep 24, 2016)

Thanks. I'm so new I didn't even know that existed. I will head to that now.


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## velodog (Sep 26, 2007)

jkl1224 said:


> Went to a wonderful bike shop today. Spent 2.5 hours there after riding my 25 mile ride home on my too small bike.
> 
> They were very knowledgeable. Still can't decide what I want a new mountain bike or a road bike. I rode a Specialized Ruby road bike. Oh my goodness. I'm so sold. LOVED it he wants $1,400. I loved the fit, the ride, the smoothness the speed. It was a whole new game.
> 
> However, today on my way around the lake that I ride laps around the paved bike trail was closed off they were clear cutting around the path. I had to ride off the path and through really bad stuff, branches, torn up ground, across gravel, and down a pretty steep slope of limestone. I loved the whole experience and left the park down a gravel/grass eroded bike path down the back slope that heads out to the main road. I loved that too. I was certain I was going to pick out a new Mt.Bike. The ones I liked that I rode were the Specialized women's Jetta Sport with hydraulic disk breaks!!! Who knew? That would run $640 a 2016 model. I also liked the men's Rockhopper sport for $570. I'm at a loss. The last bike I rode was the Ruby. I was in love and he was pulling down another that has a shock absorber in the handle bars....$2,600. I told him to just wait. It was already 7:15 the skies were turning dark and I still had 5 miles to home. I told him I would get back to him. I want BOTH. I want the Mt. Bike and I really want the road bike. He said no way could I have rode home in the pouring rain that I rode in on Thursday and Friday with the road bike. Advice? Thoughts. I needed the "L" frame in the bikes that he had me try on. It was a very good experience. What was sad...people would come in and try bikes or ask questions and leave. He would tell me they are going to buy one from the internet.  Poor guy.


If it's one bike that you want, try and look at an endure or all road bike. Since you're looking at Specialized try and ride the Diverge or the Dolce, they're drop bar road bikes that take 700c by 32mm tires, maybe larger, and is capable of riding on the road or dirt\gravel. It's not able to go everywhere that a full blown mountain bike will but it'll go plenty of places that you wouldn't go with a conventional road bike. Bikes like these go a long way in allowing you to ride most any where you'd want to go.

https://www.specialized.com/us/en/bikes/adventure

Specialized isn't the only manufacturer that builds these bikes, Google around.

Here's a blog post that's pretty much a plug for his tires, but it'll give you an idea of what's being done along these lines. It might be overkill to your needs, but there's more choices than just road or mountain bikes.

https://janheine.wordpress.com/2016/02/28/enduro-allroad-bikes-taking-off/


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## PJ352 (Dec 5, 2007)

jkl1224 said:


> I'm at a loss.


Yes, judging from your post, I believe you are. 

But there's progress in that you've found what seems to be a better shop. 

I see two choices. Either go with a new mtn bike and a new road bike (lower end on both unless budget permits otherwise). OR, take some time to decide which type of riding you want to do *more*. 

Life is full of compromises, but (IMO) a bike that kinda, sorta does a number of things ok is an unacceptable compromise. Then again, I'm a dedicated roadie. :wink5: 



jkl1224 said:


> What was sad...people would come in and try bikes or ask questions and leave. He would tell me they are going to buy one from the internet.  Poor guy.


That happens, and it is sad. Some of those people will luck out and actually get a bike that fits. But many will not. And they'll likely pay more long term than buying from a reputable shop that offers value added services.

Good luck. Keep us posted.


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## Lombard (May 8, 2014)

PJ352 said:


> Yes, judging from your post, I believe you are.
> 
> But there's progress in that you've found what seems to be a better shop.



Yes, I think you have found a better shop. The fact that they were willing to spend 2 1/2 hours with you is a good sign.

It sounds like you would definitely want something that could handle wider tires. Gravel bikes are a possibility. Don't rule out hybrids either. You may like the flat bars better in the long run if you are using the bike for commuting.

Does this shop sell other brands too or just Specialized?


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## Rashadabd (Sep 17, 2011)

After commenting early on and then reading more posts in here, I am starting to feel pretty comfortable with saying I think a gravel/adventure bike or cyclocross bike may be a very good fit for you. They do all of the things you have mentioned that you like well, but they come with the stiffness and race oriented feeling you found on the Ruby (and fairly similar weight). The Cannondale Slate and bikes like it are kind of a cross between a road bike and a Mtn Bike. You can take them on light singletrack, race in gravel events, if that interests you and/or cyclocross races, etc. You can ride them comfortably on gravel, in bad weather, through mud, but also on your typical shop or group ride with other roadies. Seriously take a look at bikes that fall in those two categories. Here are a few that I think are interesting:


https://www.giant-bicycles.com/en-us/bikes/model/tcx.advanced.sx/26058/92774/

Giant crosses into gravel racing with new TCX Advanced SX - Bikerumor

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ROsE7dT6PgQ

Slate Cannondale Bicycles

Cannondale Slate Force CX1 review | CyclingTips


Reviewed: '17 Cannondale SuperX Team Cyclocross Bike Super-X

SuperX Cannondale Bicycles

https://www.specialized.com/us/en/bikes/road/diverge

https://vimeo.com/100774318


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## Rashadabd (Sep 17, 2011)

In essence, you don't have to choose between the two anymore....


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## Rashadabd (Sep 17, 2011)

You will probably be able to find Cyclocross bikes for cheaper than you can most grave/adventure bikes and you can typically use them for the same thing.






https://www.giant-bicycles.com/en-us/bike-catalogue/series/x-road/52/

The Giant Brava could be a perfect fit in fact (there are others out there as well):

https://www.giant-bicycles.com/en-us/bikes/model/brava.slr/26100/92865/


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## Rashadabd (Sep 17, 2011)




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## jkl1224 (Sep 24, 2016)

https://detroit.craigslist.org/okl/bik/5764029552.html

Thoughts?


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## jkl1224 (Sep 24, 2016)

Wow. Thanks so much for doing all that work and putting all that effort into all of these links. I so appreciate it.

Left work and rode 20 miles around lake...then started to have a sore calf. I pulled over on my way home to walk around a bit. I found some amazing mountain bike trails I didn't know were even available. I took a 2.5 mile detour. Oh my did I have a blast. Hills, rocks, roots, steep downhills, sharp turns in deep sand. I couldn't do it all...but I sure did enjoy myself. Thinking I have only just begun on what this bicycling world has to offer. 

Funny thing is I'm doing it all with a sling sack filled with papers to grade on my back. The dilemma....to keep riding....or get home and mow the lawn and grade papers. IDK what I have been doing with myself prior to deciding to commute.


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## jkl1224 (Sep 24, 2016)

Thanks. I am so lost...but excited to figure this out.


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## PJ352 (Dec 5, 2007)

jkl1224 said:


> https://detroit.craigslist.org/okl/bik/5764029552.html
> 
> Thoughts?


If you're interested, go check it out. But remember, this is a road bike, so not ideal for venturing off road or riding snow covered/ icy roads.

And buying used means no fit assistance or warranty. So make sure sizing is right, then (if you decide to purchase it) opt for one of those $75 fittings.


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## velodog (Sep 26, 2007)

jkl1224 said:


> https://detroit.craigslist.org/okl/bik/5764029552.html
> 
> Thoughts?


If you're 5'8" that bike may be a little small for you. It may be worth looking into, but I would say to look for enough frame clearance to run large enough, aggressively treaded, tires to use in snowy conditions, if you're planning on riding through the winter.


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## bikerector (Oct 31, 2012)

JKL, since you're in Michigan and you're considering used there are several better sources for used bikes than craigslist. "Michigan Bicycle Classifieds" on facebook is one and a local mountain bike forum is another, mmba forum (google it for address). There seems to be a lot of sketchy/stolen bikes that make their way onto craigslist so you have to sort them out a little more there.


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## Lombard (May 8, 2014)

Rashadabd said:


> You will probably be able to find Cyclocross bikes for cheaper than you can most grave/adventure bikes and you can typically use them for the same thing.



Neither of these is true. 1st, their prices are very similar. 2nd, gravel bikes tend to have less aggressive geometry than cyclocross bikes. In other words, gravel bikes are to endurance road bikes like the Ruby as cyclocross bikes are to race road bikes.


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## Lombard (May 8, 2014)

jkl1224 said:


> Funny thing is I'm doing it all with a sling sack filled with papers to grade on my back. The dilemma....to keep riding....or get home and mow the lawn and grade papers. IDK what I have been doing with myself prior to deciding to commute.



Mowing the lawn can wait. Riding is more important. :thumbsup:


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## Rashadabd (Sep 17, 2011)

Lombard said:


> Neither of these is true. 1st, their prices are very similar. 2nd, gravel bikes tend to have less aggressive geometry than cyclocross bikes. In other words, gravel bikes are to endurance road bikes like the Ruby as cyclocross bikes are to race road bikes.


What??? You are kidding right? What you said is actually not true on any level. Almost every winner of every gravel race I have heard of was riding a cyclocross bike. Do your own research if you don't believe me. Tons of people use Cyclocross bikes for the very same thing gravel bikes were designed for every day as well (there are tons of videos out there on youtube if you need to look, but I posted a few in here already). You can set either of these types of bikes up with pretty much the same fit if you know anything about bike fitting too. In fact, Scott and Giant made their gravel bikes and their CX bikes off of their race bike geometry for instance. See below:

Traditional ?Cross Bikes Dominating Gravel Grinders: Jared Kessler's Ridley Up Close - Cyclocross Magazine - Cyclocross News, Races, Bikes, Photos, Videos

Trail Tech: Defining the gravel race bike - BikeRadar USA


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## Lombard (May 8, 2014)

Rashadabd said:


> What??? You are kidding right? What you said is actually not true on any level. Almost every winner of every gravel race I have heard of was riding a cyclocross bike.


Which proves my point. Cyclocross bikes are for RACING. They have more aggressive geometry and gearing.



Rashadabd said:


> Do your own research if you don't believe me. Tons of people use Cyclocross bikes for the very same thing gravel bikes were designed for every day as well (there are tons of videos out there on youtube if you need to look, but I posted a few in here already). You can set either of these types of bikes up with pretty much the same fit if you know anything about bike fitting too. In fact, Scott and Giant made their gravel bikes and their CX bikes off of their race bike geometry for instance. See below:
> 
> Traditional ?Cross Bikes Dominating Gravel Grinders: Jared Kessler's Ridley Up Close - Cyclocross Magazine - Cyclocross News, Races, Bikes, Photos, Videos
> 
> Trail Tech: Defining the gravel race bike - BikeRadar USA


These are articles about gravel RACE BIKES. A gravel race bike is a CYCLOCROSS BIKE. The newest category are gravel/adventure bikes mostly known as gravel bikes. They have more endurance type geometry and lower low gearing. They are more designed for long rides and hill climbing rather than all out racing.

If you don't believe me, you may want to check out the geometry specs as well as the other component specs on each from a number of bike brands rather than linking articles to gravel racing.


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## Rashadabd (Sep 17, 2011)

Lombard said:


> Which proves my point. Cyclocross bikes are for RACING. They have more aggressive geometry and gearing.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


What I am saying is that's a pretty silly distinction that doesn't really matter much in the real world. You can set either bike up the same, they ride the same, you can change a crankset to put whatever kind of gearing you want on any of these bikes, etc. In fact, some of them are now moving toward 1x drivetrains. If you look closely at what I have posted and read the articles, you will see that both Scott's and Giant's gravel bikes are designed for longer rides, but still have more aggressive geometry because they know you can adjust fit for anyone on pretty much any bike. The rest is mostly marketing hype to get you to buy more than one bike in my opinion, but do you. You can race or just cruise just fine on any of these bikes....

https://www.giant-bicycles.com/en-us/bikes/model/tcx.advanced.sx/26058/92774/

SCOTT Sports - SCOTT Addict Gravel 20 Disc Bike

And guess what else, you can put road tires on these same bikes and ride them there just fine as well (or not). 

Finally, maybe this will help you get what I am saying:

Tips & Concepts for Gravel Bike Setup | Gravel Cyclist: The Gravel Cycling Experience


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## Rashadabd (Sep 17, 2011)

And with regard to price, my point was that you can find more and cheaper entry level cyclocross bikes (even some used ones) easier than you can gravel adventure bikes. There are simply more of them in the stream of commerce and lots of different models at different price points.


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## Lombard (May 8, 2014)

Rashadabd said:


> And with regard to price, my point was that you can find more and cheaper entry level cyclocross bikes (even some used ones) easier than you can gravel adventure bikes. There are simply more of them in the stream of commerce and lots of different models at different price points.




Unless you are talking specifically used bikes, you would be wrong on this point too:

renegadeexile 

Grade Alloy Claris - Pavement - Bikes 

https://www.specialized.com/us/en/bikes/adventure/diverge-a1/118415 


Try again.


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## Rashadabd (Sep 17, 2011)

Lombard said:


> Unless you are talking specifically used bikes, you would be wrong on this point too:
> 
> renegadeexile
> 
> ...


It's clear you are desperate to be right about something here, but for every gravel/adventure bike you find, I can find a cheaper cyclocross bike. It's basic math, there are more of them that have been made for a longer a period of time. That means more excess inventory, more sales, and more used bikes:

Fuji Cross 1.5 Disc Cyclocross Bike - 2015

Fuji Cross 3.0 LE Cyclocross Bike - 2015 Performance Exclusive

https://www.westernbikeworks.com/product/state-bicycle-co-2015-thunderbird-cyclocross-bike

CycloCross Bikes (SSCX) : Off Road Bikes | State Bicycle Co.

And cyclocross bikes typically come with less aggressive gearing than Gravel/ Adventure bikes not more. Most modern cyclocross bikes come with with either 1x drivetrains or a 46/36 front setup vs. the 50/34 or 52/36 you find on many gravel and adventure bikes. Believe what you like though...


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## Lombard (May 8, 2014)

Rashadabd said:


> It's clear you are desperate to be right about something here, but for every gravel/adventure bike you find, I can find a cheaper cyclocross bike. It's basic math, there are more of them that have been made for a longer a period of time. That means more excess inventory, more sales, and more used bikes:
> 
> Fuji Cross 1.5 Disc Cyclocross Bike - 2015
> 
> ...



Apples to oranges on the bikes. You're bottom feeding internet bikes to force your issue. Show me some entry level cx bikes from the same brands I linked to and we'll talk.

You are wrong on gearing too. Speaking of math, 46/36 does not have as low a low gear as a 50/34. 52/36 cranksets are found on both, but are decreasingly being found on gravel/adventure bikes. 46/36 is closer gearing meant for racing.

Try again.


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## Rashadabd (Sep 17, 2011)

Lombard said:


> Apples to oranges on the bikes. You're bottom feeding internet bikes to force your issue. Show me some entry level cx bikes from the same brands I linked to and we'll talk.
> 
> You are wrong on gearing too. Speaking of math, 46/36 does not have as low a low gear as a 50/34. 52/36 cranksets are found on both, but are decreasingly being found on gravel/adventure bikes. 46/36 is closer gearing meant for racing.
> 
> Try again.


Again, you can believe whatever makes you feel good. I will just leave it at this:

https://gearjunkie.com/gravel-adventure-endurance-road-bikes


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## Lombard (May 8, 2014)

Rashadabd said:


> Again, you can believe whatever makes you feel good. I will just leave it at this:
> 
> https://gearjunkie.com/gravel-adventure-endurance-road-bikes



And what does this prove? It proves that the author believes there is little to no difference between the 4 categories - race road, endurance road, cx and gravel/adventure. And who would argue that it might be silly to own both a cx and a gravel/adventure bike? But there are obvious differences. And sure, you can certainly use a cx or gravel/adventure bike as your road bike, but not vice-versa as most road bikes don't have room for tires any wider than 28c. So if you already have a road bike and want to ride some long fire roads, a cx or gravel bike may be a wise choice to add to the stable. But they are not the same. That would be like saying a race road and endurance road bike are the same. FWIW, a gravel bike probably has more in common with a touring bike than it does a cx bike. Sure, you can swap out stems, handlebars, etc., etc., but that is not the wisest way to make the bike fit the way you want it. The correct way would be to get the correct bike for the purpose in the first place.

At the conclusion of the article, they mention the Cannondale Slate. This is probably as close to a mix between a cx and gravel bike as it gets. It's also the only one in either category with a front shock. A good idea for the really rough stuff, but if you need that, most likely, you're already on a mountain bike. Don't get me wrong, I really like Cannondale and their Lefty shocks are top notch. However, I fail to see where this bike fits in. And it's very pricey compared to most.

Is it gimmickery? Is any new technology gimmickery? What about disc brakes and e-shifting? What about extra gears? You get the idea?


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## velodog (Sep 26, 2007)

I'm gonna add another bike to the mix and submit a Randonneur bike. Mine is 650b by 42mm wheels and tires with permanently mounted lights and fenders. It wouldn't work for full blown off roading, but it easily deals with gravel roads outfitted with those 42mm road tires. I've easily carried up to probably 20lbs in the front bag without the weight impacting the bikes handling. It's fun and comfortable to ride and those large, supple tires, are *not* prone to flat. Applicable frames start with the Soma GR and go up from there. Since I got mine I have had no interest in riding any of my other bikes.

Mine is the blue Boulder, the champagne Univega is my wifes sport touring bike from the mid 80's.


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## PBL450 (Apr 12, 2014)

velodog said:


> I'm gonna add another bike to the mix and submit a Randonneur bike. Mine is 650b by 42mm wheels and tires with permanently mounted lights and fenders. It wouldn't work for full blown off roading, but it easily deals with gravel roads outfitted with those 42mm road tires. I've easily carried up to probably 20lbs in the front bag without the weight impacting the bikes handling. It's fun and comfortable to ride and those large, supple tires, are *not* prone to flat. Applicable frames start with the Soma GR and go up from there. Since I got mine I have had no interest in riding any of my other bikes.
> 
> Mine is the blue Boulder, the champagne Univega is my wifes sport touring bike from the mid 80's.
> 
> View attachment 316438


Great looking bike! No offense, but is that a retro design or is it an older bike? Great looking ride. Looks throwback. But it has indexed shifting.


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## PBL450 (Apr 12, 2014)




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## velodog (Sep 26, 2007)

PBL450 said:


> Great looking bike! No offense, but is that a retro design or is it an older bike? Great looking ride. Looks throwback. But it has indexed shifting.


Built last year. 
Steel tubed frame, Campagnolo Chorus 12-25 11spd drive train, Compass center pull brakes, Son generator frt hub, Edelux 2 headlight, Honjo hammered fenders, Grand Bois 650b rims with Compass Baby Shoe Pass 42mm tires, IRD 46-30 crankset, Nitto Pearl stem and Maes handlebars.

It's a low trail geometry that handles front loads with aplomb. The design comes out of France having been built by the likes of Alex Singer and Rene Herse, amongst others, since sometime in the '30's or so, and has been making a resurgence over the last 10yrs or more.

It's stable, comfortable and faster handling than it would lead you to believe. Not a race bike but a bicycle built for _spirited_ riding. It is not built to carry the heavy loads of a touring bike, but it will carry enough for self sufficient day trips.

Mine is a Boulder Bicycle and it's my go to bike. Since I've been riding this bike I've hardly taken out another. 

My dream bike would be a Rando built by J.P. Weigle.

https://www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected]/


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## jkl1224 (Sep 24, 2016)

Well, I was able to do both. What a beautiful week we are having in October here in Michigan. I've been able to get in 30+ miles every night. However, my poor little Mt. Bike is not holding up too well. I don't know much about bikes obviously. My front breaks seem to be rubbing. The chain coming off. I have put oil on the chain it seems much better and sadly was super dry. The drag on my tire today and yesterday was so bad and I couldn't adjust the front break to seem to fix it so I just unhooked the break and rode on the parts that didn't have steep hills and no mountain biking trails. When I got to the trails...I hooked break back up but I am feeling the 60 miles from the past two days. Feels like I'm pulling my old bike trailer behind me. LOL


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## jkl1224 (Sep 24, 2016)

bikerector said:


> JKL, since you're in Michigan and you're considering used there are several better sources for used bikes than craigslist. "Michigan Bicycle Classifieds" on facebook is one and a local mountain bike forum is another, mmba forum (google it for address). There seems to be a lot of sketchy/stolen bikes that make their way onto craigslist so you have to sort them out a little more there.


Thank you


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## jkl1224 (Sep 24, 2016)

I looked at a few of these. Never rode them. I can't understand them other than the huge tires for winter. They look like it would take me forever to get back and forth to work. I don't know what to do....


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## Tachycardic (Mar 31, 2013)

jkl1224 said:


> https://detroit.craigslist.org/okl/bik/5764029552.html
> 
> Thoughts?


It's a size 51. You're 5'8". Way too small for you. 
And you can get a brand new Dolce for $750 at a bike shop and it will come with a warranty.


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## Tachycardic (Mar 31, 2013)

jkl1224 said:


> Went to a wonderful bike shop today. Spent 2.5 hours there after riding my 25 mile ride home on my too small bike.
> 
> They were very knowledgeable. Still can't decide what I want a new mountain bike or a road bike. I rode a Specialized Ruby road bike. Oh my goodness. I'm so sold. LOVED it he wants $1,400. I loved the fit, the ride, the smoothness the speed. It was a whole new game.
> 
> However, today on my way around the lake that I ride laps around the paved bike trail was closed off they were clear cutting around the path. I had to ride off the path and through really bad stuff, branches, torn up ground, across gravel, and down a pretty steep slope of limestone. I loved the whole experience and left the park down a gravel/grass eroded bike path down the back slope that heads out to the main road. I loved that too. I was certain I was going to pick out a new Mt.Bike. The ones I liked that I rode were the Specialized women's Jetta Sport with hydraulic disk breaks!!! Who knew? That would run $640 a 2016 model. I also liked the men's Rockhopper sport for $570. I'm at a loss. The last bike I rode was the Ruby. I was in love and he was pulling down another that has a shock absorber in the handle bars....$2,600. I told him to just wait. It was already 7:15 the skies were turning dark and I still had 5 miles to home. I told him I would get back to him. I want BOTH. I want the Mt. Bike and I really want the road bike. He said no way could I have rode home in the pouring rain that I rode in on Thursday and Friday with the road bike. Advice? Thoughts. I needed the "L" frame in the bikes that he had me try on. It was a very good experience. What was sad...people would come in and try bikes or ask questions and leave. He would tell me they are going to buy one from the internet.  Poor guy.


The standard Ruby SL4 for $1400 is a good deal. 

If you can't spend that much, then you should choose the mountain bike that fits you the best (Jett vs Rockhopper). I would suggest that you go with the comp models of each instead of the sport models. Better components and fork for about $200 more...I think it'll be worth it.


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## PJ352 (Dec 5, 2007)

jkl1224 said:


> I don't know what to do....


I think the problem is... your intended uses are very broad. Winter commutes, fast road riding and off roading. Even given the versatility of some gravel/ CX bikes, I don't see any doing particularly well if you're getting into 'real' mtn bike trails. Fire roads/ packed gravel, yes, but not mtn bike territory. 

My best suggestion is to either go with two moderately priced bikes, or pick your intended use based on priority... what you'll spend the largest percentage of time doing.


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## Migen21 (Oct 28, 2014)

JKL,

You are probably already suffering from information overload from all of the responses in this thread.

I don't really have much else to offer other than my encouragement. Your posts are awesome. You really seem to be enjoying cycling for what it is. Just getting outside and riding your bike. I find your enthusiasm infectious. 

Good luck in your quest for a new/better bike. I really look forward to your posts once you've decided on the new bike and have had a chance to ride it.


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## Lombard (May 8, 2014)

jkl1224 said:


> Well, I was able to do both. What a beautiful week we are having in October here in Michigan. I've been able to get in 30+ miles every night. However, my poor little Mt. Bike is not holding up too well. I don't know much about bikes obviously. My front breaks seem to be rubbing. The chain coming off. I have put oil on the chain it seems much better and sadly was super dry. The drag on my tire today and yesterday was so bad and I couldn't adjust the front break to seem to fix it so I just unhooked the break and rode on the parts that didn't have steep hills and no mountain biking trails. When I got to the trails...I hooked break back up but I am feeling the 60 miles from the past two days. Feels like I'm pulling my old bike trailer behind me. LOL



Your tale on the front brake is worrisome. I say this because I am wondering why all of a sudden, it's out of adjustment. Is your front wheel centered properly in the fork? Is your quick release tight? These are the 1st things I would check and very important for your safety.

If these are fine, your brake calipers (I am assuming they are V-brakes) will need a simple adjustment - not uncommon with V-brakes. I doubt it's a game ender as long as you checked the previous items.


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## jkl1224 (Sep 24, 2016)

Lombard said:


> Your tale on the front brake is worrisome. I say this because I am wondering why all of a sudden, it's out of adjustment. Is your front wheel centered properly in the fork? Is your quick release tight? These are the 1st things I would check and very important for your safety.
> 
> If these are fine, your brake calipers (I am assuming they are V-brakes) will need a simple adjustment - not uncommon with V-brakes. I doubt it's a game ender as long as you checked the previous items.



Got on the bike this morning to go. Front tire is flat...I'm thinking the serious trails on went on the other day must have done something to the tube? IDK. I know after 27 miles yesterday I could hardly make it up any of the slow long inclines that I normally have no problem with. So...at 4:50AM I was getting my old trek down from the rafters. Some tire rot....but we made it to school  Groans from the back wheel. No oil on this bike in years. IDK how my tip will be home. I don't know if I will get my 40 miles in....


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## velodog (Sep 26, 2007)

Someone just posted about his newest bike and how much he liked it and it looks like it's capable of doing most everything you're wanting.

Diamondback Bicycles - Diamondback Bikes, 2017 Haanjo EXP Carbon


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## Migen21 (Oct 28, 2014)

Velodog beat me to it. I just saw the other thread with the Haanjo EXP, and was going to come here to recommend it. It sounds absolutely perfect for your needs.

Here is a review of the carbon version.
DiamondBack Haanjo EXP adventure bike review | Road Bike News, Reviews, and Photos

That's a go anywhere do anything bike, that can take fenders and racks. I'm not sure what your budget for a new bike is, but you should try to find a diamondback dealer and take one of these for a ride if you can find one.


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## jkl1224 (Sep 24, 2016)

Migen21 said:


> Velodog beat me to it. I just saw the other thread with the Haanjo EXP, and was going to come here to recommend it. It sounds absolutely perfect for your needs.
> 
> Here is a review of the carbon version.
> DiamondBack Haanjo EXP adventure bike review | Road Bike News, Reviews, and Photos
> ...


Thanks so much for all the advice. I am going to a bike shop next week that has agreed to let me bring my husband and a friend. They encouraged me to bring others to take bikes out on the trail I ride on. They recommend that I ride for two to three hours. Take out three bikes and switch riding them. Then come back and get road bikes and gravel grinders and try those as well. I'm looking forward to doing that. For the time being I am so aware of how bad my two bike choices I have at home currently are.

I don't think either of the shops here carry that brand of bike. However, I will look into it. 

I can say I rode over 120 miles this week and I am very sore. From riding on a messed up tire and trying to push through it and riding on bikes that have no oil on the chains. I have so much to learn...thankful for all the advice, links, and helpful tips here.


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## jkl1224 (Sep 24, 2016)

Thank you very much. I love the sounds of this bicycle  
I will look for them around here.


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## jkl1224 (Sep 24, 2016)

velodog said:


> Someone just posted about his newest bike and how much he liked it and it looks like it's capable of doing most everything you're wanting.
> 
> Diamondback Bicycles - Diamondback Bikes, 2017 Haanjo EXP Carbon
> 
> ...


It seems that Dicks Sporting goods is the dealer near me???? How would I test ride this?


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## velodog (Sep 26, 2007)

jkl1224 said:


> It seems that Dicks Sporting goods is the dealer near me???? How would I test ride this?


Take it out and ride it on the road and trails that you ride. It's a bike that is meant to be ridden on both.

The bike has room for tires for about any condition that you would ride. The tire size lends itself well to both road and off road tire, and there are quite a few selections out there. Here are some of the tires available, there are others.

27.5" Tires | WTB

https://www.compasscycle.com/product-category/components/tires/650b/

Nokian 27.5in 650b 584/54mm 62 Studded Tire - Ben's Cycle


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## jkl1224 (Sep 24, 2016)

velodog said:


> Take it out and ride it on the road and trails that you ride. It's a bike that is meant to be ridden on both.
> 
> The bike has room for tires for about any condition that you would ride. The tire size lends itself well to both road and off road tire, and there are quite a few selections out there. Here are some of the tires available, there are others.
> 
> ...


I called Dicks Sporting goods. They do not allow you to take bikes out and ride them


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## velodog (Sep 26, 2007)

jkl1224 said:


> I called Dicks Sporting goods. They do not allow you to take bikes out and ride them


I wasn't aware of that. It might be worth your while to stop at the store and have a look see of the bike, just to give you the chance to see it 1st hand. If you like what you see you may be able to chase down a shop that has them and would allow a test ride. Or it would let you know if you wanted to chase down another manufacturers take on the same idea.


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## PJ352 (Dec 5, 2007)

Rei carries DB. There are several in Washington state.

Not the same caliber of LBS, but will get you exposure to the bike and you can go from there.


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## Migen21 (Oct 28, 2014)

I believe the OP is in Michigan? Not sure what city.

I don't really consider dicks a bike shop. The don't carry diamonbacks 'high end' bikes. They only carry the very low end 'walmart' quality bikes. At least that is the case in my area. 

If you have an REI in your area, it might be worth checking them out as well. They carry their own brand (Novara - Soon to be Co-op) as well as others. They don't have particularly good pricing on the bikes they carry, but sometimes you can get a good deal using one of their discount coupons (subscribe to their email promos).


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## PJ352 (Dec 5, 2007)

Migen21 said:


> I believe the OP is in Michigan? Not sure what city.


Ah.. right. But the same holds true, OP. If interested, see if there are any REI's in your area.

EDIT: A quick look at REI's store locator yields no results within Michigan. Some in WI - over 100 miles away.


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## PBL450 (Apr 12, 2014)

You could bring that pic to the LBS that's cool with your riding for hours and tell them this looks like the kind of bike that would do what you want. Maybe they have or will find something built with the same type of specs?


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## KeithNorCal (Oct 10, 2016)

Two of the Diamondback Haanjo models are currently on sale. The link goes to the Trail Ultegra model but the lower end Metro model is also on sale.


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## velodog (Sep 26, 2007)

jkl1224 said:


> I called Dicks Sporting goods. They do not allow you to take bikes out and ride them


I got to thinking about this, and although I wouldn't suggest this when dealing with an independent small dealer that allows test rides, I suggest it here.

If they won't allow test rides and they have a "generous" return policy and you are interested enough in the bike that it is one of the finalists, buy it. If it turns out to be a stinker, return it and get your money back.

Like I said, I usually wouldn't suggest this, but if they don't allow a test ride how are you supposed to know if it'll work for you.

But the problem with a store like Dicks is that they probably don't have mechanics, just assemblers and a bike both there would probably need a tune up anyway, and that could cost $80, probably more, at a real bike shop.


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## Migen21 (Oct 28, 2014)

Dicks is not a bike shop. They have no 'trained' employees there. I doubt they even assemble the bikes at the stores.

In my neighborhood store, the only bikes in the store are kids bikes in the $199-$299 price range. 

They do have a few Haanjo's on their website, but not the higher end carbon versions. I'm not sure if you could buy these online and have it shipped to the store, and if you did, what kind of assembly and warranty you would get. One thing you *won't* get is any after sale support. You'd have to go to a bike shop and pay for any post sale service/support you would need.

Dick's Sporting Goods


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## crit_boy (Aug 6, 2013)

Migen21 said:


> Dicks is not a bike shop. They have no 'trained' employees there. I doubt they even assemble the bikes at the stores.


Back 15ish+ years ago (whenever dicks decided to start selling bikes) they actually did try to make themselves a real bike shop. The bike dept employees had to go through some wrench training and pass some tests. But, they quickly gave up on that. Think they gave up on golf a couple years ago too. Now, you just get people taking up space for a few hours a week in exchange for a crappy pay check.


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## fiziks (Jul 22, 2016)

Migen21 said:


> Dicks is not a bike shop. They have no 'trained' employees there. I doubt they even assemble the bikes at the stores.
> 
> In my neighborhood store, the only bikes in the store are kids bikes in the $199-$299 price range.
> 
> ...


I can't speak for all Dick's Sporting Goods stores, but the one in my area has trained bike techs and they do assemble bikes there. About the only thing they can't due is true a bad wheel. Last year they had a pretty good selection of bikes (road, MTB, hybrid, beach, kids, etc), even the high end stuff, out on the floor. This year it is all flatbar bikes and kids bikes.


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## weltyed (Feb 6, 2004)

q) Do I need a New Bike
a) Yes. the answer is always yes.


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## Migen21 (Oct 28, 2014)

Hey JKL,

I hope your bike search is going well.

I was in my local Performance Bike shop earlier today and asked them about the Diamondback Haanjo EXP that is referenced above.

He said it's not a bike that is normally carried in the store, but they do have them in their warehouse and can order them. The MSRP for that bike is $2300, but they sell it at $1900, and if you can combine it with other promotions, you might be able to get as low as $1700, which would be a steal for a carbon bike like that.

Here is a link to the bike in their website.
Diamondback Haanjo EXP Carbon Gravel Bike - 2017


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## jkl1224 (Sep 24, 2016)

Migen21 said:


> Hey JKL,
> 
> I hope your bike search is going well.
> 
> ...


Thanks so much. So nice of you to think of me. My tire blew out. I'm riding my old TREK 800 mountain bike. I find it very hard to ride and it has no shocks. My shoulder is really hurting me from an injury (during a hysterectomy surgery...go figure) so I kind of pulled up on my riding. Just going to work and home. 14 miles and that is it. The week before I logged in almost 200 miles in 5 days. 

This week was a slow rolling week with a lot of pain. I'm worried about going and riding bikes when I'm hurting so bad. I am certainly learning an awful lot. Hoping for a good hard freeze here in Michigan to kill off all these bugs that seem to be all over in the fall. 
I'm loving getting up and riding under the light of the stars and moon in the am and coming home watching the beautiful colors of the fall. I don't know what I was doing prior to this. Feel like I was missing out an awful lot on how beautiful life is.

I will ask at the bike shop I'm going to go to about this bike. They are going to let me ride a "gravel grinder" I think that is what it is called.


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## Lombard (May 8, 2014)

jkl1224 said:


> Thanks so much. So nice of you to think of me. My tire blew out. I'm riding my old TREK 800 mountain bike. I find it very hard to ride and it has no shocks. My shoulder is really hurting me from an injury (during a hysterectomy surgery...go figure) so I kind of pulled up on my riding. Just going to work and home. 14 miles and that is it. The week before I logged in almost 200 miles in 5 days.
> 
> This week was a slow rolling week with a lot of pain. I'm worried about going and riding bikes when I'm hurting so bad. I am certainly learning an awful lot. Hoping for a good hard freeze here in Michigan to kill off all these bugs that seem to be all over in the fall.
> I'm loving getting up and riding under the light of the stars and moon in the am and coming home watching the beautiful colors of the fall. I don't know what I was doing prior to this. Feel like I was missing out an awful lot on how beautiful life is.
> ...


OUCH! Sorry to hear about your setbacks.

I guess if you're used to riding a bike with a shock, a bike without one will feel harsh. You may want to carry a little less pressure in the front tire to compensate, so the front will feel softer. I'm thinking you can go as low as 30 PSI in the front without problems.

That Diamondback Haanjo is intriguing. I took a look at the specs. It appears to be one of the few gravel bikes that's spec'ed with mountain bike components. And they are good quality mountain bike components - Shimano XT. That is a good route to go if you will be doing a lot of hills - especially if you are weak on hills since mountain bike gearing gives you much lower low gearing.


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## Migen21 (Oct 28, 2014)

The only other brand I can think of that has similar bikes is $alsa, and they are much more expensive.


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## velodog (Sep 26, 2007)

A couple more choices.

https://rawlandcycles.com/collections/bikes

KONA BIKES | ROAD | SUTRA | Sutra

Plug 2 - Charge Bikes

A comparison of 700c to 650b wheels and tires.

Wheel Comparison: 650B vs 700c -


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## BikeLayne (Apr 4, 2014)

Maybe take a look at the Specialized Sequoia $1300.00 model. It's classified as an adventure bike, nice wide tires, you can put fenders on it. It's a steel frame so it should be nice and comfortable. Maybe to much money but it would make a nice all rounder type bike for road, trails, rain. Disk brakes are nice in the rain or wet. It has internal wiring for lights so you could check that out when you are worried about getting home before dark. Or just shop around until you find the bike for you. Good luck. 

Ask in the shop what they will do for you after you buy the bike. Do they keep it adjusted and running for 30 days, for a year or forever. Different shops have different programs.


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## jkl1224 (Sep 24, 2016)

Today my husband, son and I spent three hours riding these three bicycles.

All of the bikes I rode were men's size L

I loved something about each one and I am very confused.
I absolutely loved the road bike. It rode with such ease and I could go up and down the hills that are tough on me with great ease. I am riding about 30 miles a night and I think I could get 40 in with time to spare.

The mountain bike was amazing compared to what I am riding. I could feel the resistance and how much slower I would go and how much more of a push it is to get up and down the hills. I love the fit of the rockhopper. The handlebars were what I really enjoyed.

The crosstrail bike I didn't get to ride a lot as my son loved it. I enjoyed it but the handle bars seemed tight. I don't know. I enjoyed riding it...but I rode it after the Diverge and I was in LOVE. 

*The Diverge was AMAZING oh my.* It was so light I could easily bring right into my classroom. I loved the power it had and the way it rode. It took me a while to figure out how to shift and I don't think I still know as I hardly had to shift as I could ride the hills with little effort. The one I rode had a lime green frame and it was a carbon bike. I can't find it on line.

My question to you all is this...where I ride I am on hard road surface all the way. However, there is a short cut path that I can take out of the park that is grass and limestone loose gravel. Is it ok to ride this road bike on the grass part of the rock path to get out of the park. The whole trail like this is about 200m. I'm wondering if I am able to take this path out? It is a short cut out and I love the ride from there home. 

I'm leaning to the road bike for nice days and fixing up my old mountain bike to ride in the snow and salt. I did not get clarification today at all. I just know I walked out wanting all three bicycles.



https://www.specialized.com/us/en/bikes/fitness/crosstrail-disc/126335
https://www.specialized.com/us/en/bikes/mountain/trail/rockhopper-29/115566
https://www.specialized.com/us/en/bikes/road/diverge-comp/119013


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## jkl1224 (Sep 24, 2016)

BikeLayne said:


> Maybe take a look at the Specialized Sequoia $1300.00 model. It's classified as an adventure bike, nice wide tires, you can put fenders on it. It's a steel frame so it should be nice and comfortable. Maybe to much money but it would make a nice all rounder type bike for road, trails, rain. Disk brakes are nice in the rain or wet. It has internal wiring for lights so you could check that out when you are worried about getting home before dark. Or just shop around until you find the bike for you. Good luck.
> 
> Ask in the shop what they will do for you after you buy the bike. Do they keep it adjusted and running for 30 days, for a year or forever. Different shops have different programs.



Thanks.
I will look into this tomorrow. You are right. It sounds like a good idea for me.


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## Rashadabd (Sep 17, 2011)

jkl1224 said:


> Today my husband, son and I spent three hours riding these three bicycles.
> 
> All of the bikes I rode were men's size L
> 
> ...


I really like the idea of you getting a Diverge. It's the kind of bike that seems to tick a lot f boxes for you. There's plenty of room for wider wheels and tires should you find that you really enjoy riding in gravel and/or want to try some gravel grinders, but it is also just a great bike to commute or ride with a group or do a century/gran fondo on. They have a range of prices on them too with the entry level ones starting around $900. You might also be able to find a 2016 on sale (I think the green one you looked at is from last year). If the price on that one is too steep, maybe take a look at something like this:

https://www.specialized.com/us/en/bikes/road/diverge-elite-dsw/119017


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## PJ352 (Dec 5, 2007)

jkl1224 said:


> My question to you all is this...where I ride I am on hard road surface all the way. However, there is a short cut path that I can take out of the park that is grass and limestone loose gravel. Is it ok to ride this road bike on the grass part of the rock path to get out of the park. The whole trail like this is about 200m. I'm wondering if I am able to take this path out? It is a short cut out and I love the ride from there home.


Can't say for certain without riding it (and wet/ dry conditions could change the answer), but the Diverge is a pretty versatile bike, so (IMO) a promising choice given your diverse riding conditions. 

Some LBS's have 30 day return policies, so consider asking his one, but get the details, because they may take the bike back but only offer store credit. 



jkl1224 said:


> I'm leaning to the road bike for nice days and fixing up my old mountain bike to ride in the snow and salt.


Good plan!


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## velodog (Sep 26, 2007)

Of the three you've ridden I'd say you'd be best served by the Diverge.



jkl1224 said:


> I'm leaning to the road bike for nice days and fixing up my old mountain bike to ride in the snow and salt.
> 
> And like PJ352 said, "Good plan!".


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## velodog (Sep 26, 2007)

jkl1224 said:


> My question to you all is this...where I ride I am on hard road surface all the way. However, there is a short cut path that I can take out of the park that is grass and limestone loose gravel. Is it ok to ride this road bike on the grass part of the rock path to get out of the park. The whole trail like this is about 200m. I'm wondering if I am able to take this path out? It is a short cut out and I love the ride from there home.
> 
> I'm willing to bet that not only could you ride that bike on that path, but you would enjoy the ride. Those types of paths\trails are the reason that these bikes are becoming so popular. For extended trail\gravel rides just lower the air pressure a few pounds lower than you would use on the pavement.


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## Migen21 (Oct 28, 2014)

The Diverge is a great bike, and will suit your needs fine.

You might want to talk to the people at the bike shop about the widest tire you can equip, and whether that will work for the trail you are talking about (I'm sure it will work fine). 

Your idea about going with the road bike and fixing up the mountain bike seems like a good idea on the surface, but having a bike like the Diverge will give you all of the flexibility you need for riding on gravel roads and trails. Instead of spending money on fixing up your old mountain bike, invest in a second set of wheels for the Diverge. You can have one light , fast set with skinnier road tires, and another set with wider, more durable wheels and tires that will be suitable for your off road use.

Edit: In looking at your links, and reading your description, it sounds like you probably rode a 2016 Diverge Comp. The link you posted is for the 2017. Did they offer you any kind of discount on the 2016 bike(s), and are the 2017 versions available? I would definitely ask them about this, and ask them to tell you what differences there between the two (there may be none, but there could be some).


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## PBL450 (Apr 12, 2014)

Rashadabd said:


> I really like the idea of you getting a Diverge. It's the kind of bike that seems to tick a lot f boxes for you. There's plenty of room for wider wheels and tires should you find that you really enjoy riding in gravel and/or what to try some gravel grinders, but it is also just a great bike to commute or ride with a group or do a century/gran fondo on. They have a range of prices on them too with the entry level ones starting around $900. You might also be able to find a 2016 on sale (I think the green one you looked at is from last year). If the price on that one is too steep, maybe take a look at something like this:
> 
> https://www.specialized.com/us/en/bikes/road/diverge-elite-dsw/119017


^^^^This. And what the posters say following this... you'll have no problem on stretches of trail. None at all. You really liked it! It comes through in your writing!! Go for it! It's a great bike! And don't bother fixing up the mtb. Just ride it on the harder trails as is. You will eventually get a mtb... it's just the way it is. Cycling is a little like cocaine habit but better for your cardio. This is going to be your primary ride, so start here. And, just to mention... this thread has been a ton of fun!


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## Lombard (May 8, 2014)

PBL450 said:


> ^^^^This. And what the posters say following this... you'll have no problem on stretches of trail. None at all. You really liked it! It comes through in your writing!! Go for it! It's a great bike! And don't bother fixing up the mtb. Just ride it on the harder trails as is. You will eventually get a mtb... it's just the way it is. Cycling is a little like cocaine habit but better for your cardio. This is going to be your primary ride, so start here. And, just to mention... this thread has been a ton of fun!


This!!!

If you are only riding 200m (0.124 miles) off road, it's really a non-issue. You can walk that section if need be, but really won't have to! You may just need to ride that 200m with a little more care than with the mountain bike. The Diverge indeed sounds like your bike. And as Rashadabd said, you don't need to buy the expensive version, but can buy this one:

https://www.specialized.com/us/en/bi...ite-dsw/119017 

It comes with 30c tires, but that bike will fit up to 35c tires if you need a little bit better off-road prowess. A lot of bike shops will swap out tires and make other little changes in order to make a sale and build a good relationship.

Here is an older, but still good article on the bike:

Specialized launches Diverge adventure bike with disc brakes and thru-axles | road.cc


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## jkl1224 (Sep 24, 2016)

Lombard said:


> This!!!
> 
> If you are only riding 200m (0.124 miles) off road, it's really a non-issue. You can walk that section if need be, but really won't have to! You may just need to ride that 200m with a little more care than with the mountain bike. The Diverge indeed sounds like your bike. And as Rashadabd said, you don't need to buy the expensive version, but can buy this one:
> 
> ...



Thanks for the good article. Where I live it is mostly dirt and gravel roads. However, they put in this really nice bike trail that used to be old railroad tracks. Rails to trails path. It is paved and that is what I take to work and back home about 14 miles. Then I like to pull off and go into a beautiful park system we have and ride the paved path around the lake about three six mile laps. 

When I am on my mountain bike I pull off the paved trails and love to ride into the woods on the single track paths. When I first started bicycle riding it was up north in Michigan on very sandy, very hilly single track paths that are normally snowmobiling trails. I would pull my two kids in a bike trailer, later trail alongs and then we stopped as they got old enough to consume our time watching them in sports etc. 

Now, I'm using those old bicycles to commute to work and get a workout. I'm really looking for a durable bicycle that can get me to work leaving before 6 AM and home from work in all kinds of weather on this bike path and for adventure when I leave work.

I think if I had a new mountain bicycle when I left work I would spend more time in the woods. However, if I get the Diverge...I would get a lot more miles in...and loved the speed. I love my secret exit out of this park system that is off road. I hate having to ride out of the park and along a busy road and cross two more busy roads. If I take my back door path....I avoid all of the nonsense and can ride on a sidewalk path for over a mile and never see a soul or deal with traffic. That is why I want to be able to take the bike down this short path out. I too thought that the bicycle was so light I would have no problem carrying it down that hill and out of the park.

Thanks so much for your links and advice from all of you.


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## PBL450 (Apr 12, 2014)

jkl1224 said:


> Thanks for the good article. Where I live it is mostly dirt and gravel roads. However, they put in this really nice bike trail that used to be old railroad tracks. Rails to trails path. It is paved and that is what I take to work and back home about 14 miles. Then I like to pull off and go into a beautiful park system we have and ride the paved path around the lake about three six mile laps.
> 
> When I am on my mountain bike I pull off the paved trails and love to ride into the woods on the single track paths. When I first started bicycle riding it was up north in Michigan on very sandy, very hilly single track paths that are normally snowmobiling trails. I would pull my two kids in a bike trailer, later trail alongs and then we stopped as they got old enough to consume our time watching them in sports etc.
> 
> ...


I have a long blue stone chipped gravel driveway that I have ridden a million times on my 23s. Never a problem. Do everything means do nothing really well... if you are a commuter, principally, then think and buy like a commuter. If you get crazy about riding technical trails in the woods? You'll use the old bike to commute some days, until you use the new mtb some days  and if you get crazy about speed and distance riding maybe you go to a more aggressive geo road bike down the road.... remember, there's Craigslist and such... 


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


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## velodog (Sep 26, 2007)

PBL450 said:


> Do everything means do nothing really well... if you are a commuter, principally, then think and buy like a commuter.
> Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


I have to take exception to statements like this. 

Cyclists get pigeon holed into thinking that bikes are lacking for so many nonsensical reasons that they become afraid to try something new. Sure if a person wants to bomb down the side of a mountain or ride in deep snow/sand they're going to need something made for that, but road bikes are finally getting versatile enough that they can be used for just about any riding that a non racing cyclist will want to do. 

There are good high volume file thread road tire selections out there up to 44mm. 700x32 or 35mm tires would have good road manners and do fine on gravel trails and paths. If more than that is needed and there's room in the frame, larger tires with more aggressive thread is an option. Since the bike is a disk brake, the frame may even allow a 650b wheel with larger tires for excursions onto rockier roads.

There is no good reason to think that one bike is enough, but by the same token there is no reason to think that having one bike is not capable of giving most conditions a run for there money.


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## PBL450 (Apr 12, 2014)

velodog said:


> I have to take exception to statements like this.
> 
> Cyclists get pigeon holed into thinking that bikes are lacking for so many nonsensical reasons that they become afraid to try something new. Sure if a person wants to bomb down the side of a mountain or ride in deep snow/sand they're going to need something made for that, but road bikes are finally getting versatile enough that they can be used for just about any riding that a non racing cyclist will want to do.
> 
> ...


That's kind of what I wanted to get across about that bike. It will do what you want short of technical riding. Snow? Put studs on it. Brucew rides through everything on his commuter and this looks like a great commuter. Perfect. Trails, no problem. It's a bike that will commute and ride lots of conditions well. It can't do everything. But it sounds to me like it does what the OP wants to do principally, really, really well. It's not a road racing machine. It's not a FS 27.5. 


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


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## jkl1224 (Sep 24, 2016)

PBL450 said:


> That's kind of what I wanted to get across about that bike. It will do what you want short of technical riding. Snow? Put studs on it. Brucew rides through everything on his commuter and this looks like a great commuter. Perfect. Trails, no problem. It's a bike that will commute and ride lots of conditions well. It can't do everything. But it sounds to me like it does what the OP wants to do principally, really, really well. It's not a road racing machine. It's not a FS 27.5.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk



Love all the great advice. I put my order in. The bike shop wants me to ride it for a few days and see how I like it and the fit. They have been very helpful.

In the meantime...My two old bicycles that I was using kind of fell apart. My son's bike. Flat tire. Got that fixed but really too small. My old Trek...tire rot...bad tires. My brother stopped by with a trek MTB that he picked up from a flea market. I rode that today after putting new tubes in the tires Sunday. This bicycle is amazing. It has shocks in the front and the seat. The handle bars are up high. I felt no shock from the road or trails. I loved my ride. The chain chinked and made a lot of noises. However, the comfort for my bad shoulder was great. The wind was blowing around the lake and the bugs were out in full force so sitting up so tall was a bit different to get used to. However, I think this flea market find will be my commuting bicycle on tougher weather days and my new bike will be for all the other days. I have loved everyone's advice, thoughtful articles and links. I so appreciate being able to talk to people who know....

Today at school a teacher I work with used to work in a bike shop. She said buying this road bike was a huge mistake and I better always have two tubes on hand and know how to fix a flat often. Is that truly the case? If so should I be depending on something like this at 5:50 AM ? It is awfully dark out when I roll down the driveway. It is just my bike, myself, and the moon and stars.....thoughts?


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## PJ352 (Dec 5, 2007)

jkl1224 said:


> Today at school a teacher I work with used to work in a bike shop. She said buying this road bike was a huge mistake and I better always have two tubes on hand and know how to fix a flat often. Is that truly the case? If so should I be depending on something like this at 5:50 AM ? It is awfully dark out when I roll down the driveway. It is just my bike, myself, and the moon and stars.....thoughts?


You said you "put the order in". For the Diverge? If so, I don't see it as a huge mistake at all. Of all the bikes in contention, it's among the best for your (fairly broad) intended uses. As with most anything there are compromises, but overall, a very good choice IMO. 

As for flats, no matter the bike or tire, you can flat. So yes, it's wise to prepare for the event (as in practice changing out tubes/ repairing) in the (relative) comfort of your garage/ home. Then bring along what's required in a saddle bag - tube(s), tire levers, etc. and either CO2 or a mini-pump. Sounds like a flashlight/ light(s) are appropriate as well.


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## velodog (Sep 26, 2007)

jkl1224 said:


> Love all the great advice. I put my order in. The bike shop wants me to ride it for a few days and see how I like it and the fit. They have been very helpful.
> 
> In the meantime...My two old bicycles that I was using kind of fell apart. My son's bike. Flat tire. Got that fixed but really too small. My old Trek...tire rot...bad tires. My brother stopped by with a trek MTB that he picked up from a flea market. I rode that today after putting new tubes in the tires Sunday. This bicycle is amazing. It has shocks in the front and the seat. The handle bars are up high. I felt no shock from the road or trails. I loved my ride. The chain chinked and made a lot of noises. However, the comfort for my bad shoulder was great. The wind was blowing around the lake and the bugs were out in full force so sitting up so tall was a bit different to get used to. However, I think this flea market find will be my commuting bicycle on tougher weather days and my new bike will be for all the other days. I have loved everyone's advice, thoughtful articles and links. I so appreciate being able to talk to people who know....
> 
> Today at school a teacher I work with used to work in a bike shop. She said buying this road bike was a huge mistake and I better always have two tubes on hand and know how to fix a flat often. Is that truly the case? If so should I be depending on something like this at 5:50 AM ? It is awfully dark out when I roll down the driveway. It is just my bike, myself, and the moon and stars.....thoughts?


 When you get the bike pick up a tube, some tire irons, a pump and saddle bag. Until then just practice changing a tube at home in the garage. Remove the wheel from one of your bikes, then remove and replace the tube, pump it up and replace the wheel in the bike. Do that a couple of times, with help if needed, and get comfortable with the job so you're ready if it happens. You can also pick up a cheap headlamp so you can see what you're doing if need be.

Flats happen but they're not necessarily a regular occurrence, so don't let this person frighten you. Ride smart and watch out for debris and you'll be okay. You've been riding on old dry rotted tires without worry, so why start worrying now with fresh new tires. If it's dark when you're riding a head and tail light will let you see, allowing you to avoid road hazards, and be seen, which is a good thing.

One more thing, once your comfortable fixing a flat at home, go outside at night a give it a try in the dark with a flashlight. If you can change a flat in a stress free environment it will be less stressful to do the same work on the side of the road.

Fixing the occasional flat is a small price to pay for the enjoyment of riding a bike.

P.S. 
I hate to talk about it, but it's been many thousand miles since I had a flat. Like I said, watch for road debris and holes\large cracks. Ride Smart.


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## Lombard (May 8, 2014)

jkl1224 said:


> Today at school a teacher I work with used to work in a bike shop. She said buying this road bike was a huge mistake and I better always have two tubes on hand and know how to fix a flat often. Is that truly the case? If so should I be depending on something like this at 5:50 AM ? It is awfully dark out when I roll down the driveway. It is just my bike, myself, and the moon and stars.....thoughts?


Your new bike comes with 30mm tires which are right in between the width for road and hybrid/gravel/cx size tires. Your friend most likely witnessed riders who rode on skinny paper thin 23c, high TPI weight weenie racing tires. Your tires will most certainly be more robust. 

That being said, it is always a good idea to be prepared. As others have said, practice changing a tube in the comfort of your own driveway a few times until you feel comfortable with the job. And always carry a spare tube and mini pump. Flats are something that can happen on mountain bikes too.


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## Migen21 (Oct 28, 2014)

JKL,

There are a couple of things I should point out.

This particular forum is a "road bike" forum. While most, if not all of use have and ride mountain bikes, we are probably a little biased towards "road" style bikes (drop handlebars), although the trend is definitely moving towards 'gravel/adventure' style bikes. If you were to post these same questions on a mountain bike forum, you would probably get very different answers. No one giving you advice is 'wrong'. It's just us providing you suggestions based on our specific limited view of your world ....

You have been very descriptive about your riding, and what you are looking for. Far more so that most who come here and ask 'what kind of bike should I buy?'. You are asking lots of good questions and getting lots of good responses. That said, our 'vision' of the world you ride in is based on the text on this page. There may be things you haven't thought to tell us, or things we may have missed that we aren't considering. 

Your teacher friend who used to work in a bike shop is giving you good advice in regards to carrying tubes and a small set of tools. Fixing a flat might seem like a daunting task, but it's really not. It's really fairly easy, with a little practice and the right stuff in our bags or pockets, you can recover from a flat without any assistance fairly quickly. As someone else suggested, you should practice in your garage with your (new) bike, using the stuff you have (spare tubes, tire levers if necessary, mini-pump, CO2 cartridges, etc...), so you don't have any surprises when you have to do it mid-ride. And if you ride in the dark (as somoene else suggested), you might want to carry a small headlamp (like they sell for hiking, etc..) so you have some light to work under out on the trail.

In regards to them telling you that you bought the wrong bike (I think you said 'road bike'), what information are they basing this on? Have they seen the bike, and what kind of wheels and tires it has? Depending on the type of shop, and how long ago it was, her views of current bikes may be limited (then again, it may not be, thus my comments above). 

Lastly, you said you 'placed your order', but didn't specify which bike. You linked three above. A straight bar hybrid, the Diverge, and a mountain bike. Could you tell us which specific bike you bought (including the year)? We can then take a look at the specs for wheel and tire clearance, and hopefully give you some good advice about your terrain, and dealing with flat tires.


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## bikerector (Oct 31, 2012)

There are some road tires that I believe are more flat resistant than mountain bike tires, with DH mtb tires being the exception. I feel like most mtb tires don't have near the puncture resistance that a puncture resistant road tire would have if you are looking for a puncture resistant tire. From my few years in mtb it seems like mtb tires focus more on sidewall penetration resistance which isn't as much of a concern on a road bike. For the main tread flat resistance, enter tubeless tires.

Touring and hybrid tires are marketed in that range but there are tires like continental gatorskins or maxxis refuse that you can run through glass and they'll often come out okay, just pick the glass out before they get time to really dig in there. I've ridden thousands of miles on SE Michigan roads with the maxxis refuse tires and I've had one flat and it occurred at home. I picked up a small wire that created a slow leaker, that would penetrate any tire. I've picked wires out of the tire before that didn't penetrate as well. My new tire is a wider maxxis refuse which is tubeless so it would even seal the small punctures so I'm pretty confident I can ride without much worry of a puncture especially in through the months when the roads are littered with branches, stones, and car parts (late winter).


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## velodog (Sep 26, 2007)

High volume, low pressure tires are less flat prone. They tend to roll over things that would puncture a low volume high pressure tire.

My experience anyway.


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## jkl1224 (Sep 24, 2016)

I'm still waiting....the snow is going to fly here in Michigan soon. I will be so sad to get my bicycle if it snows right away. I tell you what...the rails to trails path I take is so covered with leaves that they are very slick when it rains...that is on my Mt. Bike. Worried about the Diverge but excited to ride it


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## Tachycardic (Mar 31, 2013)

Like the others have said, flat tires are just a fact of life. Go to Youtube and watch some videos on how to change flats, like this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qLO_HO0kEjs


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## velodog (Sep 26, 2007)

jkl1224 said:


> I'm still waiting....the snow is going to fly here in Michigan soon. I will be so sad to get my bicycle if it snows right away. I tell you what...the rails to trails path I take is so covered with leaves that they are very slick when it rains...that is on my Mt. Bike. Worried about the Diverge but excited to ride it


Wet leaves are not to be taken lightly, they can be like riding on ice. Be careful with your brakes and in turns. Too hard on the brakes or leaning into a turn and a wheel washes out.


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## jkl1224 (Sep 24, 2016)

Yes, that is how I found out. I was surprised how quickly I lost all traction. Friday I was riding home from work and the rain was really coming down. The pavement and leaves were slick. I had to catch myself a few times and I was not breaking or turning...just hydroplaning on leaves and water I believe. Learning as I go...sometimes harder than I would like.


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## Migen21 (Oct 28, 2014)

We have lots of trees and lots of rain around here. We fondly refer to the wet leaves on the trails and side of the road as 'grease'... Because that's just about what it's like...


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## Lombard (May 8, 2014)

jkl1224 said:


> I'm still waiting....the snow is going to fly here in Michigan soon. I will be so sad to get my bicycle if it snows right away. I tell you what...the rails to trails path I take is so covered with leaves that they are very slick when it rains...that is on my Mt. Bike. Worried about the Diverge but excited to ride it




That is why having two bikes isn't a bad idea.  Use the mountain bike in dicey weather and the Diverge in dry weather.


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## velodog (Sep 26, 2007)

Lombard said:


> That is why having two bikes isn't a bad idea.  Use the mountain bike in dicey weather and the Diverge in dry weather.


While I agree that more than one bike is a good idea, wet leaves are a hazard ho matter the bike.

Same as 4-wheel drive in an automobile, great in the snow but don't matter none on ice.


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## Lombard (May 8, 2014)

velodog said:


> While I agree that more than one bike is a good idea, wet leaves are a hazard ho matter the bike.
> 
> Same as 4-wheel drive in an automobile, great in the snow but don't matter none on ice.



Yes, your point is well taken. It comes down to this:

A rider should not have irrational exuberance about what fatter and more aggressive tires can do in the same way a driver needs to have reasonable expectations as to what AWD can do.

I was driving in a snow squall on the NY Northway once and lost count of the number of AWD Subarus I saw wiped out on the side of the road while plenty of humble FWD sedans were plodding along just fine.

That is not to say there isn't merit in having wider tires with treads on bikes and AWD on motor vehicles in foul weather. But one still needs to use what one has wisely.


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## jkl1224 (Sep 24, 2016)

*I got my new bike!*



velodog said:


> While I agree that more than one bike is a good idea, wet leaves are a hazard ho matter the bike.
> 
> Same as 4-wheel drive in an automobile, great in the snow but don't matter none on ice.


I got my new bike I absolutely love it. It has been cold here in Michigan since I got it. I'm layered and going 20 to 30 miles a day. I don't see how to post pictures. It is the Diverge Sport I believe....(I should probably know this.) My favorite part is how fast I can cross intersections after coming to a complete stop. Thank you all for all of the great advice. My ride today and the past few have consisted of wet pavement, lots of wet leaves, lots of sticks and downed trees, and Wednesday I was about 25 miles from home and I was riding in sleat. Have loved every ride. Hated to miss on Thanksgiving....I feel addicted!


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## velodog (Sep 26, 2007)

jkl1224 said:


> I got my new bike I absolutely love it. It has been cold here in Michigan since I got it. I'm layered and going 20 to 30 miles a day. I don't see how to post pictures. It is the Diverge Sport I believe....(I should probably know this.) My favorite part is how fast I can cross intersections after coming to a complete stop. Thank you all for all of the great advice. My ride today and the past few have consisted of wet pavement, lots of wet leaves, lots of sticks and downed trees, and Wednesday I was about 25 miles from home and I was riding in sleat. Have loved every ride. Hated to miss on Thanksgiving....I feel addicted!


Glad to hear you got your bike, and really glad that you're enjoying it so much. Wishing you many safe miles.

For pictures mouse over the task bar in the reply window and click on the "insert image icon"(3rd from right) and it'll guide you.


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## Migen21 (Oct 28, 2014)

jkl1224 said:


> I got my new bike I absolutely love it. It has been cold here in Michigan since I got it. I'm layered and going 20 to 30 miles a day. I don't see how to post pictures. It is the Diverge Sport I believe....(I should probably know this.) My favorite part is how fast I can cross intersections after coming to a complete stop. Thank you all for all of the great advice. My ride today and the past few have consisted of wet pavement, lots of wet leaves, lots of sticks and downed trees, and Wednesday I was about 25 miles from home and I was riding in sleat. Have loved every ride. Hated to miss on Thanksgiving....I feel addicted!


I'm officially nominating this for post of the year!

Seriously, congrats on the success finding the right bike. Your enthusiasm is contagious!


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## KeithNorCal (Oct 10, 2016)

Migen21 said:


> I'm officially nominating this for post of the year!


Seconded.  Congrats jkl1224*. *As said by velodog, "Wishing you many safe miles."


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## Opus51569 (Jul 21, 2009)

As addictions go, it's not so bad. Welcome to the club!


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


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## PJ352 (Dec 5, 2007)

Congrats! I think you made a solid choice with the Diverge (no matter the model). 

I, too, wish you many safe, happy miles. 

Keep us updated on your riding impressions.


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## Rashadabd (Sep 17, 2011)

Congrats, glad it worked out! Enjoy it!


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## Lombard (May 8, 2014)

Congrats! Wishing you many safe and enjoyable miles!


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## Tachycardic (Mar 31, 2013)

Awesome! Wishing you many safe miles. Start saving your pennies; you know about the N+1 rule right?


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## jkl1224 (Sep 24, 2016)

bikerector said:


> As an alternative, you may consider a flat bar road bike which has a more heads-up position, like you're used to, and are generally more durable and lower priced.
> 
> If you're going to shop at a bike shop, test ride some bikes to get a feel for them. Don't get caught up on the lingo and all, just ride a bunch of bikes and get familiar with what feels more "right" from one bike to the next. I personally like renting bikes for a weekend if possible to really get a good feel and then put on a bunch of hours of riding, especially with trail bikes.
> 
> I'm also located in MI, SE Michigan to be more exact. For winter, hands down get studded tires if you plan to do it consistently. Knobs are okay in snow but do nothing for ice or hardpack, glazed over snow and that is especially the case for ruts and bumps/ snowy potholes. If you do want a road-type bike (drop bars) then look at something like a cyclocross bike that would accept the studded tires which are wider than most road bikes can accept.


I bought a diverge. I forgot what you posted here. Do you think I can get those tires for this bike? Or should I plan on doing this to my mountain bike? Thanks for your advice. So far I'm riding every day. Just dealing with cold, no snow yet and only 4 days of rain.


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## velodog (Sep 26, 2007)

jkl1224 said:


> I bought a diverge. I forgot what you posted here. Do you think I can get those tires for this bike? Or should I plan on doing this to my mountain bike? Thanks for your advice. So far I'm riding every day. Just dealing with cold, no snow yet and only 4 days of rain.


Here's a little something worth reading about studded tires. Yes, he's selling them, but it's a pretty good primer.

Studded Bicycle Tires


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## PBL450 (Apr 12, 2014)

velodog said:


> Here's a little something worth reading about studded tires. Yes, he's selling them, but it's a pretty good primer.
> 
> Studded Bicycle Tires


Seriously, PM BruceW. He's pure bad asz year round commuter in Rochester NY. He has years of experience doing like 11 months with studded tires, horrible conditions, snow plows, ice and only about one month of awful sledding.


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## jkl1224 (Sep 24, 2016)

Thank you I'll do just that.


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## kjdhawkhill (Jan 29, 2011)

jkl1224 said:


> I am a teacher.


 I hope your pupils see you riding to school - or see that you make it there before them and have everything neat and tidy when they arrive. Whatever age they are, knowing that someone rides 8-12 miles before they finish their first game of XYZ on the iPhone is probably a positive. 



Shuffleman said:


> If you have to ask, than yes...You need a new bike...but only if you can afford one.


The answer could also be the opposite - If you have to ask, then no. But "Would a new bike make me happier in some facet of my riding life than I am today?" that answer is almost always 'yes.' 



jkl1224 said:


> I bought a diverge.


It seemed pretty clear from the bright red font after the test rides, that the Diverge is what made you happiest. Congrats. Ride it, enjoy it, lube the chain and take it to the shop for a mid-winter tune. Its still way way cheaper than a car payment. 

What lights are you using, and do you have to recharge them at school? 

And yes, you can find studded tires that will fit the Diverge - you just may have to be work a little harder than someone riding a mountain bike.


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## jkl1224 (Sep 24, 2016)

Funny. Yes my kids know I ride. I get to school by 6:30. I leave around 4:30 and try to get in 26 miles. Harder now that time change has messed life up. I bring new bike into classroom. They think that is cool. I share biking episodes with them. ..day it was pouring rain and had was down. ..i hit a ground hog. We both ended up with a lame leg. I was attacked by a flock of wild turkeys when we were all trapped in a fenced bike path over an expressway bridge. Had to explain to kids cuts and scrapes from Turkey's and fencing lol. They think I'm amazing. Lol


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## jkl1224 (Sep 24, 2016)

I left home and it was clear. Moon was out. Christmas lights everywhere. The weather man said rain at 5pm. I was wearing bike pants/tights. Black turtle neck, Nike shirt, Columbia waterproof wind breaker and my Tommy Hilfiger rain boots. When it was time to leave I looked out the window and it was raining. Hurried and changed back into riding gear + face mask. On my way home my feet were soaked. Was it because my tights drained water into boots? This is my fourth ride home in rain. Before my tennis shoes were soaked so I planned ahead with boots. I need help in this area. What to wear on feet? Thanks for advice. I didn't get cold. ..just cold wet feet.


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## Migen21 (Oct 28, 2014)

Are your boots waterproof? So the rain is coming in from the top? 

You can find zip over shoe covers that will help keep water and wind out. Be sure to read the reviews on these. The quality is all over the place, and the tend to take a beating. I tried a cheap no-name pair from EBay that lasted about three rides. They got tossed, and I ended up with a pair of Gore boot covers that work pretty well.

Feet are really hard to keep dry if it's really wet out.

If the water is running down your legs and into your shoes, perhaps something with a zipper around the ankle that you could zip over the outside of your boots?

There is a pair of windproof/waterproof pants on Amazon for $29 that has a lot of good reviews. They have a zipper at the ankle that should help keep water outside of your shoes.

https://www.amazon.com/4ucycling-Wi...ncoding=UTF8&refRID=8K4BH7D0KG5JZ1778AWB&th=1


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## jkl1224 (Sep 24, 2016)

Migen21 said:


> Are your boots waterproof? So the rain is coming in from the top?
> 
> You can find zip over shoe covers that will help keep water and wind out. Be sure to read the reviews on these. The quality is all over the place, and the tend to take a beating. I tried a cheap no-name pair from EBay that lasted about three rides. They got tossed, and I ended up with a pair of Gore boot covers that work pretty well.
> 
> ...


Thanks those look great. I think that is what I will try.






These are the boots I put on. I know you are probably laughing. They work great for bus duty and recess with the kids . I was hoping the draw string would be helpful. Not so much.


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## Migen21 (Oct 28, 2014)

Oh yea, those are not going to keep you dry.

Maybe Santa will bring you some awesome winter cycling shoes. 

Something like these LG's ?

https://smile.amazon.com/dp/B00EMB5...70-other-smile-us000-pcomp-feature-scomp-wm-4

Or, maybe, if you've been *really* *really* good this year, a pair of Lake MXZ 303's 

COLD ? Lake Cycling

https://smile.amazon.com/Lake-MXZ30...8&qid=1480378434&sr=8-2&keywords=lake+mxz+303


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## jkl1224 (Sep 24, 2016)

Migen21 said:


> Oh yea, those are not going to keep you dry.
> 
> Maybe Santa will bring you some awesome winter cycling shoes.
> 
> ...


wow.
I thought giving the kids the car and me riding a bike was going to save me $$$. This is not looking so good. Except I absolutely LOVE riding. Riding my 8 mile trek home today I was faster by bike than I can make it by car. I got held up at two crosswalks on busy roads. It was such an easy ride after going out for 40 mile rides every day for the past 5 days. I just flew home and loved it...except cold wet feet that still will not warm up...


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## PBL450 (Apr 12, 2014)

jkl1224 said:


> Funny. Yes my kids know I ride. I get to school by 6:30. I leave around 4:30 and try to get in 26 miles. Harder now that time change has messed life up. I bring new bike into classroom. They think that is cool. I share biking episodes with them. ..day it was pouring rain and had was down. ..i hit a ground hog. We both ended up with a lame leg. I was attacked by a flock of wild turkeys when we were all trapped in a fenced bike path over an expressway bridge. Had to explain to kids cuts and scrapes from Turkey's and fencing lol. They think I'm amazing. Lol


This right here... THIS! Your cycling thread is fun. But thank you, sincerely, for being a teacher and for sharing your life and struggles and rain and reality with your kids and for being a real role model and dedicating your professional life to service. Bringing in the bike, riding in the rain, crashing over groundhogs... It makes you a better cyclist but it makes a freaking amazing teacher! And we can't have enough of those! THANK YOU!


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## Lombard (May 8, 2014)

pbl450 said:


> this right here... This! Your cycling thread is fun. But thank you, sincerely, for being a teacher and for sharing your life and struggles and rain and reality with your kids and for being a real role model and dedicating your professional life to service. Bringing in the bike, riding in the rain, crashing over groundhogs... It makes you a better cyclist but it makes a freaking amazing teacher! And we can't have enough of those! Thank you!


This!!!!!


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## velodog (Sep 26, 2007)

jkl1224 said:


> wow.
> I thought giving the kids the car and me riding a bike was going to save me $$$. This is not looking so good. Except I absolutely LOVE riding. Riding my 8 mile trek home today I was faster by bike than I can make it by car. I got held up at two crosswalks on busy roads. It was such an easy ride after going out for 40 mile rides every day for the past 5 days. I just flew home and loved it...except cold wet feet that still will not warm up...


Yeah, cycling specific boots can be mighty pricey. Until you get things sorted out plastic bags over your socks is a quick and cheap stop-gap. I don't know if you have cycling specific shoes, but whether you do or don't you may be able to get by with a good pair of weatherproof shoe covers. Good shoe covers are still pricey, but a good winter pair can be had for under $100. If you don't wear cycling specific shoes you may be able to make covers work with something other than those boots you posted.

Check out these selections to get an idea of what's out there.

Bike Shoe Covers, Toe Covers & Booties | Bike Nashbar

Performance Bike - bikes, bike accessories, bike gear, cycling equipment, cycling apparel, and more


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## kjdhawkhill (Jan 29, 2011)

jkl1224 said:


> I thought giving the kids the car and me riding a bike was going to save me $$$. This is not looking so good. Except I absolutely LOVE riding. Riding my 8 mile trek home today I was faster by bike than I can make it by car. I got held up at two crosswalks on busy roads. It was such an easy ride after going out for 40 mile rides every day for the past 5 days. I just flew home and loved it...except cold wet feet that still will not warm up.I


Pay for riding specific cold weather shoes - they're almost always waterproof. I'm not saying there won't be seepage, but they close much tight to the legs so road spray won't fill the boots like an open top rubber boot. You've obviously been to a Specialized shop - they should have the "defroster" shoes available... $200 beats Lake cycling prices, although $200 only keeps your toes warm to X degrees and $350 might keep them warm to X minus 20. 

I have the Defrosters and wear them anytime its going to be under 40 for most or all of my ride. Feet have never gotten wet from rain or road spray, only too sweaty a few times. 

Or even cheaper, look for some neoprene overshoes for your regular riding shoes. They are waterproof for rides into the 40s... No promises about their benefits, on open roads in the 20s and 30s. 

Keep at it, and ride to show your kids what is possible. Save a car payment while you're at it.


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## Migen21 (Oct 28, 2014)

kjdhawkhill said:


> $200 beats Lake cycling prices, although $200 only keeps your toes warm to X degrees and $350 might keep them warm to X minus 20.


It doesn't beat them by much. 

Those exact Lake shoes on Amazon are $240 (linked in my post above).

Still, it's a lot of money. And you also need to factor in the cost of the SPD pedals.

It also adds the complication of having to carry a spare change of shoes on the bike (or stash some at the classroom). May or may not be a big deal depending on if you have a place to keep those kinds of things.


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## jkl1224 (Sep 24, 2016)

PBL450 said:


> This right here... THIS! Your cycling thread is fun. But thank you, sincerely, for being a teacher and for sharing your life and struggles and rain and reality with your kids and for being a real role model and dedicating your professional life to service. Bringing in the bike, riding in the rain, crashing over groundhogs... It makes you a better cyclist but it makes a freaking amazing teacher! And we can't have enough of those! THANK YOU!


Thanks for your kind words. We teachers don't hear that often enough. I can only try. I thought I would share a picture of my classroom....


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## Migen21 (Oct 28, 2014)

JKL, you are officially my favorite teacher ever... well, except maybe Ms. Palm in 8th grade ... but let's not go there :blush2:


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## DangerousDan (Jun 18, 2016)

As a full time winter commuter in a cold (Fargo ND) place, I too heartily recommend going over to studded tires for the winter. I formerly had a set of Kenda's. They lasted several years. When they failed, it was because the studs wore through and punctured the tube.

Currently Conti Spike Claws. They are also nice tires, and the shop a few blocks away had them on the shelf. I am building up a 27.5+ bike for a new winter commuter, and it will have Schwalbe Ice Spikers because that is what is available in 27.5 studded tires. 

Any studded tire that uses a carbide stud (all that I am aware of do) will be a big improvement. I have found myself slipping on ice when I get off the bike because I forget that it is there. I will not ride on ice without them.

For boots, I have an old pair of leather structural fire fighting boots. They are very heavy, but insulated, waterproof, breathable, and rugged beyond belief. They were quite expensive, but I had them to crawl into wrecked cars and burning houses. You will need something that can deal with the coldest temperatures you plan on riding in.

I prefer a platform pedal in the winter and switch over to clipless for summer riding, but that is just me. If you haven't ridden clipless pedals you might want to try them. My wife wouldn't use them until someone else said they were almost mandatory for the stoker on a tandem. Now that she has ridden with them, she will never switch back.

I also find that stuff stops working well at around 0F. The rear derailleur can be a pain. I have had brake cables freeze at warmer temperatures; those horrid days that range from 20-35 with sleet. Keep up on the cable and chain lubrication.

And, with all that said... have a blast! Winter can be beautiful, and a lot of people miss out because they are afraid to go out.


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## Lombard (May 8, 2014)

jkl1224 said:


> Thanks for your kind words. We teachers don't hear that often enough. I can only try. I thought I would share a picture of my classroom....
> View attachment 317135



This is awesome!


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## Rashadabd (Sep 17, 2011)

jkl1224 said:


> Thanks for your kind words. We teachers don't hear that often enough. I can only try. I thought I would share a picture of my classroom....
> View attachment 317135


Very cool! My wife is an elementary teacher as well and you folks are truly unsung heroes. Keep up the good (and important) work and keep on riding....


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## PBL450 (Apr 12, 2014)

Lombard said:


> This is awesome!


This!! And Rahsad!! JKL, your pic is among the best ever on RBR IMO!! I love the bike in the classroom! Every child you teach and most in your school that you don't will have this image burned into their heads! I see the effects of long term morbid obesity every day and it is just horrifying, the body crushing itself over time... This is the front line right here in the fight to encourage health and fitness and it is paired with the same intellectual and social goals.


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## jkl1224 (Sep 24, 2016)

DangerousDan said:


> As a full time winter commuter in a cold (Fargo ND) place, I too heartily recommend going over to studded tires for the winter. I formerly had a set of Kenda's. They lasted several years. When they failed, it was because the studs wore through and punctured the tube.
> 
> Currently Conti Spike Claws. They are also nice tires, and the shop a few blocks away had them on the shelf. I am building up a 27.5+ bike for a new winter commuter, and it will have Schwalbe Ice Spikers because that is what is available in 27.5 studded tires.
> 
> ...


Thanks for the very thoughtful reply. So much that I don't know. So much I have to learn. I had no idea that you did anything to the cables. I just learned that you don't oil your chain with WD40. UGH. I grew up in the country on a farm. We rode our 10 speeds back and forth to the fields and the barns and oiled the chain once every great while with dad's old oil can. I bought my first real bike 20 years ago. A Trek Mountain Bike and bike trailer to get out with my two small kids. I would Mt. Bike on the sandy trails in Northern Michigan. It was great times. Then the kids grew and they got small bikes. However, we just rode short rides...six miles on back roads to the ice cream store. The kids hated the trails. My son gets attacked by the black flies. Nothing would stop them from going up under his helmet and destroying any persuasion I had to get them to ride. The bike was parked as they pursued baseball,basketball, soccer, football, dance etc. My time was moved into a car as a taxi. This summer I pulled that old Trek out and started to ride. It was then that I found the chain to be dry and I oiled it with my husbands WD40. I would ride 40 miles every morning. I loved it. I decided to give kids the cars while they are away in college and I would bike. I have been using a hiking lamp we used while camping on my bike helmet to kind of light my way in the morning. It has been a great learning adventure so far. I love to cross country ski so I'm finding riding a bike in the cold is like skiing. You warm up and seem to stay warm once you get moving. However, parts freezing up...that scares me. Maybe I will park my bike and cross country ski those 8 miles to and fro? I'm loving what I'm doing. Teachers offer to throw my bike in the back of their vehicle and give me a ride home. Nope. I'm loving the challenge, the beautiful sunny days, the rainy soaking wet days, and the chilly windy days I have just experienced this week. We shall see. I will have to go to my bike shop and see if they can teach me how to care for my bike. Or, since I ride by it every day on my way home. Stop by every month and have them look it over for me while I wait 
Again, thanks for all the advice. I'm going to look into it all. I had no idea that "bike shoes" had "clips" or that there even was bike shoes. LOL.


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## jkl1224 (Sep 24, 2016)

PBL ~ My influence is questionable. Some look at me as if I'm crazy. Others look a bit sideways at me wondering if I am insane giving my kids the cars while I ride to work. I have had parents comment on how amazed the kids are. 

t was neat holding parent teacher conferences at night with my bike parked behind the table made the parents believers. They insisted that their child was not telling the truth. They couldn't believe that I was really doing this. Some said they can't even walk a mile and were baffled that I was doing what I was doing. Made them reflect a bit on how they are spending their time. 

I take pictures of my rides and send them to the kids after schools. I will be looking over a lake, crossing a river, or riding along beautiful country side. I ask them what have they done since school let out? My philosophy is to get our work done at school and go out and play hard after school. Only I never did... I would stay late and grade papers and prepare for the day. I now get to school when the doors are open at 6:30 AM and allow myself that time at the end of the day. It has been amazing for me  I hope that I do influence my kids to put down the video games and get outside and move. Thanks for your very kind words.


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## Rashadabd (Sep 17, 2011)

You can also buy shoe covers for regular (and much cheaper) cycling shoes. 

Giordana HydroShield Shoe Covers | Competitive Cyclist


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## Lombard (May 8, 2014)

jkl1224 said:


> Thanks for the very thoughtful reply. So much that I don't know. So much I have to learn. I had no idea that you did anything to the cables. I just learned that you don't oil your chain with WD40. UGH. I grew up in the country on a farm. We rode our 10 speeds back and forth to the fields and the barns and oiled the chain once every great while with dad's old oil can. I bought my first real bike 20 years ago. A Trek Mountain Bike and bike trailer to get out with my two small kids. I would Mt. Bike on the sandy trails in Northern Michigan. It was great times. Then the kids grew and they got small bikes. However, we just rode short rides...six miles on back roads to the ice cream store. The kids hated the trails. My son gets attacked by the black flies. Nothing would stop them from going up under his helmet and destroying any persuasion I had to get them to ride......


WD-40 is an excellent solvent and cleaner, but it is a terrible lubricant. Since you ride in all types of weather, fair and foul, I would suggest a good "wet" lube like Rock n Roll Blue or Tri-Flow. Be sure to wipe the excess off the chain as lube left on the outside of the chain serves only one purpose - to attract dirt! About your son's experience with black flies, there is only one way to evade them - get on the bike and ride as soon as you get outside and don't stop riding! They cannot chase you on the bike. Horse flies, however, are a totally different story! They will chase you down! :mad5: The best way to evade them is to cover any hair with something light colored - like a white bandana. They go after dark colors.


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## PBL450 (Apr 12, 2014)

jkl1224;
Again said:


> Take some time and look around the forum. There is a lot of great cycling information. There is even a commuting sub-forum. You can learn a ton here. You can browse threads that look interesting, or are common topics, like winter gear, what do you carry on a ride, best chain lube, etc...


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## jkl1224 (Sep 24, 2016)

Lombard said:


> WD-40 is an excellent solvent and cleaner, but it is a terrible lubricant. Since you ride in all types of weather, fair and foul, I would suggest a good "wet" lube like Rock n Roll Blue or Tri-Flow. Be sure to wipe the excess off the chain as lube left on the outside of the chain serves only one purpose - to attract dirt! About your son's experience with black flies, there is only one way to evade them - get on the bike and ride as soon as you get outside and don't stop riding! They cannot chase you on the bike. Horse flies, however, are a totally different story! They will chase you down! :mad5: The best way to evade them is to cover any hair with something light colored - like a white bandana. They go after dark colors.


Thanks for the advice. Yes. They were horse flies. They surrounded his helmet and come on under vents. He was riding as fast as he could. I w right next to him and they didn't bother me. But we will try that too.


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## Lombard (May 8, 2014)

jkl1224 said:


> Thanks for the advice. Yes. They were horse flies. They surrounded his helmet and come on under vents. He was riding as fast as he could. I w right next to him and they didn't bother me. But we will try that too.


It seems that biting insects tend to prefer certain people. When other people are around, I am generally safe as they prefer others. When I'm alone, I get attacked! Another explanation is that as I said, they tend to go after darker colors as in dark hair - think a big bull moose. If you are blonde and your son is a brunette, that may explain it. Or as I said before, it may just be body chemistry. There is a theory that there is a connection between the release of stress hormones and one's susceptibility to insect bites.


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## PBL450 (Apr 12, 2014)

Lombard said:


> It seems that biting insects tend to prefer certain people. When other people are around, I am generally safe as they prefer others. When I'm alone, I get attacked! Another explanation is that as I said, they tend to go after darker colors as in dark hair - think a big bull moose. If you are blonde and your son is a brunette, that may explain it. Or as I said before, it may just be body chemistry. There is a theory that there is a connection between the release of stress hormones and one's susceptibility to insect bites.


Never realized how annoying mosquitos really were until I quit smoking. Apparently the toxic fumes offered some degree of protection. That could apply to these little bastards? Maybe he could ride with a stogie or a big ole blunt? 


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


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## Bobbed06 (Aug 17, 2016)

Another vote for cool mom, and teacher!

I wear waterproof Merril brand hikers from Dicks sporting goods. Buy em, and they let u wear them for up to 90 days free returns no questions asked if you hate them. I kept mine and prefer to wear hikers when I ride in case I have to walk or if I decide to walk some. I tend to walk some to loosen up, slow down,change views, etc. 

Great choice on your new bike, and learn to do your own maintainance will help keep it cheaper. I commuted by bike for 10 years until I moved away from NC. Not riding my bicycle to work really messes with my mindset. I am ready to move again and this time I want to find an even more bike friendly town than I lived in before.


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## jkl1224 (Sep 24, 2016)

Bobbed06 said:


> Another vote for cool mom, and teacher!
> 
> I wear waterproof Merril brand hikers from Dicks sporting goods. Buy em, and they let u wear them for up to 90 days free returns no questions asked if you hate them. I kept mine and prefer to wear hikers when I ride in case I have to walk or if I decide to walk some. I tend to walk some to loosen up, slow down,change views, etc.
> 
> Great choice on your new bike, and learn to do your own maintainance will help keep it cheaper. I commuted by bike for 10 years until I moved away from NC. Not riding my bicycle to work really messes with my mindset. I am ready to move again and this time I want to find an even more bike friendly town than I lived in before.





That is a great idea. I'm going to get me some of those. I have some pretty heavy duty boots I wear to shove the drive and walk the dog in those will work too. Today I just rode home in those boots above and with no rain they were great. I picked up a really light down coat at Sam's club for $24. Rolls up in a little pouch. Wore that home and had to unzip. I love riding and can't imagine going back to my car. I totally understand what you are saying. I'm very lucky to have this rails to trails bike path right by my house and goes almost to my school door steps. I have been working here for 5 years and I'm mad I just started.


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