# 2010 Cannondale's SS



## gcamachopr (Aug 6, 2008)

Starnut...when they would be available?


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## gcamachopr (Aug 6, 2008)

View attachment 164949


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i want some...


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## ralph1 (May 20, 2006)

I will have one like the last one. 

cheers

Ralph


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## wankski (Jul 24, 2005)

do not like.... hopefully grab an 09 by the end of the year...


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## Devastator (May 11, 2009)

If that is the new Super, it looks just like the Six. Seems like they toned down the fact its a Super not a Six. Also Cannondale on the seat tube is ugly, too big. This makes me hope I can get an 09 Super.


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## 123prs (Jun 19, 2007)

Personally, I like the design and look of my '08 Super Six over the '09 and now the '10. My 56cm fully loaded with lights, pedals, Garmin 305, and a single bottle cage comes in at 15 lbs. I weigh only 145 lbs, so the bike is plenty stiff for me. For me, having a bike that weighs less and is stiffer is overkill. What I need to improve is the engine that drives my bike.


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## bikesarethenewblack (Dec 30, 2008)

123prs said:


> Personally, I like the design and look of my '08 Super Six over the '09 and now the '10.


Fully agree here. I love my 08 - very classic paint and even the wife says the lines on the bike are beautiful and she never says anything about my bikes (though she liked my Independent Fabrication and, well, she did choose me so the woman must have a good sense of style). Anyway, at 185 I'm no feather weight and the 08 is plenty stiff and I have a CAAD 9, too so I have a good base of comparison.


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## tober1 (Feb 6, 2009)

Hot
#1 please in a 56


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## RoadBikeVirgin (Nov 21, 2008)

Sorry to say, but those designs are disgraceful. decal on the seattube is definitely too large, and as you can tell, in the light it looks like the decal overlaps with the seatstays. Are they trying too hard? I also don't think the FSA seat and stem look very good with these frame colors.


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## 2cans (Aug 25, 2008)

sombody buy my 08, and all take the team ;-)


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## gcamachopr (Aug 6, 2008)

r3 2008 white for sale,1 #52 in the team color for me please!
had a system six in the liquigas edition and sold it for the r3
but i want to go back to the cannondale,but of course for the 
SUUUUUPEEERRRR 6!


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## CHL (Jun 24, 2005)

Devastator said:


> If that is the new Super, it looks just like the Six. Seems like they toned down the fact its a Super not a Six. Also Cannondale on the seat tube is ugly, too big. This makes me hope I can get an 09 Super.


I have seen the Carbon Six and it looks nothing like the new Super Six or the 2008/09 models. From the pictures, it certainly has a resemblence but in person it doesn't look like it all. I did see the 2010 Super Six at the ATOC. It looks fantastic. I would love to test ride one and see how differently it rides from my 2008 Super Six.

Interesting that Cannondale has started to use carbon as the interface material for the headset. I wonder it's such a good idea, although many manufacturers (such as Ridley) have already gone that route. Perhaps the next move will be to make the bottom bracket interface of carbon as well.

CHL


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## ping771 (Apr 10, 2006)

Roadbikeaction.com have similiar photos of the 2010 Supersixes. 1) I am not crazy about the headtube profile (viewed from the side), but I guess it makes the headtube even stiffer. 
2) As others have said, the Cannondale logos are gi-normous. The Cannondale logo on the seat tube is as large as one on a downtube of an 06 CAAD or Six13. 
3) The paint scheme is looking less "Cannondaleish". Starting to look like some other brands. 
4. Oh well, no longer US made, if that matters to you. Are Trek Madones still made in the US? 
5. I still long for an 07 system six or an 06 six13 in raw/black. They'll never do that again, nor the Black Lightning scheme.

My lbs, who has carried Cannondale for decades, thinks that the 09's are not as good anymore. The Carbon six ain't the Six13 fo' shure.


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## Lil Dale (Feb 19, 2009)

I for one can't wait to get mine.Stiff and compliant and finally under 1 kg.
It will go well with my Caad and 07 System six.
Starnut was not expecting these till Nov/Dec.but it looks like we'll be able to get them in July.


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## 7he ]-[0rr0r (Mar 18, 2009)

I don't think I've seen a Liquigas color scheme Cannondale I liked better...
Do want!


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## STARNUT (Jun 19, 2005)

ping771 said:


> Roadbikeaction.com have similiar photos of the 2010 Supersixes. 1) I am not crazy about the headtube profile (viewed from the side), but I guess it makes the headtube even stiffer.
> 2) As others have said, the Cannondale logos are gi-normous. The Cannondale logo on the seat tube is as large as one on a downtube of an 06 CAAD or Six13.
> 3) The paint scheme is looking less "Cannondaleish". Starting to look like some other brands.
> 4. Oh well, no longer US made, if that matters to you. Are Trek Madones still made in the US?
> ...


(not at ping777)

1. big logos = cool. I was so sad when the got rid of the "pro wrap" down tube logo with 4 C'dale logos. This has been a dislike in the past form some people. I figured that all the whiners that bemoan the move would be flying the American made C'Dale flag with giant logos. Or does pride stop at vanity and personal taste? How many people do you see whine about a Parlee Z4? right.................

2. Paint looks like.................... paint. Sack up and get a custom Super from a team deal. How may ways can you paint a bike to not make it look like "others"? Seriously.

3. If you think a Trek, that happens to be made in the US, is a better performing bike, quit whining and buy one. I'm (and you for that matter) not going to win or lose a race based on where a bike is made or not made.

And your LBS is 1/2 right. The Sixs suck big floppy donkey......... they suck. They are getting lighter next year though so at least it's a step. For them to say "not as good anymore" for product they have not seen or ridden is short sighted and trite and they must be an Evil S dealer or a dopey T dealer as well. The Trek and Evil S reps have been all over the move like rats on cheetos.

There has been plenty of "I-wanna'-get-an-09-super-6-before-the-move" when in all reality the 2010 bikes are going to be better with a bit of asian flair thrown in, for the better.














Why has _NO ONE_ mentioned the (stated) differences between the 08/09 Supers and the 2010? why? Why has there not been a dialogue about that? There has been umpteen threads all over the interweb about the move and the soul sucking bean counters at Dorel (that have generally been unfounded and biased). Everyone here does actually _ride_ and bike............. I assume. Thus...... why no talk about the differences?


There is some pretty _large_ construction differences that would have an impact on things that actually matter: weight; stiffness; longevity; ride/comfort. Notice I didn't mention anything about an harmonized tariff code for the importation of bikes 'cause it doesn't matter. The things *WE* deem important have yet to be mentioned. Stiffness, weight, price, construction differences, carbon differences, did the geometry change. WTF?

Starnut


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## -dustin (Jan 11, 2009)

I wonder why in 3yrs the bike has gone through 3 fairly significant design changes.


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## zamboni (Sep 11, 2003)

My guess is the feed back from pro riders to improve the performance of the bike.


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## wankski (Jul 24, 2005)

STARNUT said:


> Why has _NO ONE_ mentioned the (stated) differences between the 08/09 Supers and the 2010? why? Why has there not been a dialogue about that? There has been umpteen threads all over the interweb about the move and the soul sucking bean counters at Dorel (that have generally been unfounded and biased). Everyone here does actually _ride_ and bike............. I assume. Thus...... why no talk about the differences?
> 
> 
> There is some pretty _large_ construction differences that would have an impact on things that actually matter: weight; stiffness; longevity; ride/comfort. Notice I didn't mention anything about an harmonized tariff code for the importation of bikes 'cause it doesn't matter. The things *WE* deem important have yet to be mentioned. Stiffness, weight, price, construction differences, carbon differences, did the geometry change. WTF?
> ...


well for me, i like bikes that are different. 2010 SS... light, full carbon, made in china... whoa, that's different...

i'm not talking about 'it' as its latest marketing spiel is like any other: 'MY XX, lighter, stiffer, better'... Never heard that approach before...

Cdale used to make alu, carbon mixes when no one else did. They were different, and made in the west for comparable dime. Over here, pretty rare too... 

Lemme ask this question... they're discounting the 09 SS right now... is this simply to make room for the new 2010 SS? or is it to bring it more inline with the cost of the 2010 SS as its RRP is slated to be lower to reflect the cheaper labour elsewhere?


'Made in China' - kinda makes a mockery of cannondale's commitment to fair work and environment conditions that they like to talk about on their website eh?


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## CHL (Jun 24, 2005)

wankski said:


> 'Made in China' - kinda makes a mockery of cannondale's commitment to fair work and environment conditions that they like to talk about on their website eh?


Maybe but having operations in the Far East doesn't mean the company will participate in less than reputable practices. 

Expected Characteristics of New Super Six:

Precise and quick steering but also very stable (I didn't find the original ill mannered in this area though).
Monstrous efficiency due to large downtube/bb & chain stays.
Comfortable ride due to thin seat statys (I bet the 09 & 08 are more comfortable).
With Dura-Ace you should be able to build a sub 15lb bike without using AX-Lightness stuff.

**Opinion on Paint Scheme. Liquigas Color:thumbsup: , Red Color:idea: , DI2 Corlor::thumbsup: **

So who will actually plunk down the cash and get this bike when it comes out?

CHL


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## Bluechip (Feb 19, 2004)

CHL said:


> So who will actually plunk down the cash and get this bike when it comes out?
> 
> CHL



Me! 

If I can sell my motorcycle soon I will be getting a new bike. The '10 SuperSix moves to the top of my list. Looking forward to the test rides. I hope the Sram model is available in a second color other than red.


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## zamboni (Sep 11, 2003)

Not me I'm sticking with Campy SR11 and just ordered a 09 S6 frame, be here in two weeks can't wait.


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## ping771 (Apr 10, 2006)

STARNUT said:


> (not at ping777)
> 
> 1. big logos = cool. I was so sad when the got rid of the "pro wrap" down tube logo with 4 C'dale logos. This has been a dislike in the past form some people. I figured that all the whiners that bemoan the move would be flying the American made C'Dale flag with giant logos. Or does pride stop at vanity and personal taste? How many people do you see whine about a Parlee Z4? right.................
> 
> ...


I know you were not directing your comments at me but let me respond/revise what I said:

1. I was making an objective statement about the logo size. Actually I like the logos for 2010, the font is better, and it seems, despite their size, seem simpler and more muted. I never understood why Cdales from yesteryear had the word "Cannondale" printed twice, one below the other, on the downtube, for a total of 4 "Cannondales" on the downtube.

2. Paint: Well the red does look a bit like Specialized red from old Allez days, and I've seen an 09 Supersix in that red in person, and it's what I suspected. I'll always like black, so the 2010 SS in black is sweet. I'll generate a lot of hate on me by saying this, I was never a fan of any version of the Liquigas team colors (I think maybe the 08 Supersix that was all black with the subtle Liquigas letters in white was the best). Green and white don't do it for me, though some versions are better than others. Paint scheme is a real reason why people like certain bikes in certain years. It's probably a top three reason in choosing a model.

3. Trek: I was just asking if Trek is the only American company out there making carbon bikes in the US. I guess they are. And I would take a Supersix over a Madone anyday. 

4. Sixes: The comment made by my lbs owner was in reference to the Sixes. My personal take is that for Cdale to tout the six13 for so many years saying that they were different from all other bike companies that bonded carbon and alum together because Cdale used a front carbon triangle and alum rear triangle, and now basically they are following the industry in 09 by using the conventional carbon rear triangle---well then what was Cdale hyping all these years for? I would imagine that most people looking for a carbon bike cannot afford a Supersix, and will go to the meat and potatoes Six and Carbon Six. The Six13 and to some degree the System Six, was the gateway into the carbon bike world for most of us, it was stiff yet compliant; good geometry (fairly similar to the CAAD); and for those who are interested in racing pedigree it was raced by pro tour teams. The six13 (and to a lesser degree the system six) was the perfect do it all bike-- racing/training/recreational riding. To me the Six and Carbon Six seem to have not found an identity--time will tell. I can barely tell the difference between the two.

5. I am not overly concerned one way or another whether a bike is made in the US or Asia. But you will have a hard time telling the Cdale folks/community that it doesn't matter that every Cdale road bike (except the CAAD) is being made in China. Assuming the build standards are the same (which they probably are), there are tons of folks who want to see "Handmade in USA" on their bikes. Would most people buy a Ferrari if it was made in say, Japan,Tunisia, or (gasp!) the US? I am sure that Ferrari has a lot of components outsourced (just like you can put Shimano, Campy, SRAM, etc on your Cdale), but I still think that the body on a Ferrari is still made in Italy. And if that were ever to change, you would see a lot of Ferrari afficiandos pulling their hair out. I'm sure over time people will get over it, just like when the Dodgers moved outta Brooklyn.  

6. 2010 Supersixes: The reason most people have not compared the 2010 with 08/09 is frankly, really no one except the press has test rode the 2010 (I feel awkard typing 10). Lennard Zinn at Velonews has written a pretty in depth review and he appears to be thumbs up. I've test ridden a 08 SuperSix and it definitely is more responsive than the new Madone. I don't know how the 09 SS stacks up vs. the 08 SS. Anyone out there please give their thoughts. The 2010 looks super beefy, no alum in the fork or headset area, and unequal chainstays. The frameset for the Electrontic DA is even different for wiring purposes. Cdale really thought this through. Bicycling magazine says it is super stiff, but the longer seat stays that reach the seat tube as opposed to seat stays meeting at triangle junction that then connects to the seat tube, makes it more forgiving. 

But Zinn's statement, "All of this hand laying-up of layers into molds is labor-intensive, and Cannondale has abandoned its lifelong commitment to domestic frame production. The frame is made in China with lower labor costs." may have to be read between the lines. Zinn had to mean something in writing that.

Finally, I hope that the lower labor costs in the 2010 SS translate into a lower purchase price to the consumer. Otherwise, what's the point? Unless they're saying that if they were to continue to make the SS in the US it would be prohibitively expensive, even more than it is now.


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## zamboni (Sep 11, 2003)

Ping771,

Here are my thoughts to your comments.

1. Don't like the logo on seat tube.

3. Only the high end models made here in Wisconsin ( 5500 series plus Madone )

4. The new 2010 Super looks similar to current Carbon Six specially the head tube design, the good news is Cannondale R&D is still here in PA.

5. Since Cannondale got purchase and not suprise that production will move to Asia for cost cutting and increase profit margin.

6. Based on review there are two Super model offers in 2010, SuperSix High Modulus Ultimate frame and less expensive SuperSixes made in the same mold with lower modulus carbon fibers.


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## ping771 (Apr 10, 2006)

zamboni said:


> Ping771,
> 
> Here are my thoughts to your comments.
> 
> ...


As to comment #6 above, I will be interested to see the pricepoints on all 2010 SS's to see if they are the same or lower than the 09's.


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## SicBith (Jan 21, 2008)

My thoughts

2010 vs 2008 Hi Mod carbon stiffer, but shorter lifespan because it is stiffer (more brittle)
2010 vx 2009 The paint on the 10 is way better looking than the 09. Yes the seat tube decal is big, but at the graphics adds some life to the bike.
2010 a friend is a risk reduction lawyer for a well respected French bike brand, his experience is that carbon made is china is not so reliable, nor is the support to the brand. Carbon made in Taiwan is much much more reliable, as is the backing of the factory to the brand.


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## zamboni (Sep 11, 2003)

I believed tha raw carbon materials is from U.S and you are correct Taiwan is mre experience in carbon MFG than China.They have been making tennis racket and OEM carbon frame for a long period.


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## SicBith (Jan 21, 2008)

Where the material comes from is important, but you could easily say that bikes don't get anywhere near the best carbon which puts more emphasis on how it is manufactured I would not buy a Chinese made carbon frame at this time, no matter what the deal or brand it is.


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## ping771 (Apr 10, 2006)

Wait--are you guys saying that (speaking about Cannondale SS), the carbon material is coming from the US, shipped to China (not Taiwan), where frames are fabricated/painted, and then shipped back to the US? I thought China would be providing/manufacturing the carbon--isn't that part and parcel of the "outsourcing of production?"


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## SicBith (Jan 21, 2008)

I can't speak to the production of carbon from U.S or other countries. I know there are a number of different weaves, and materials available, and the stuff the bike industry uses is not anywhere near the same as sailing, F1, Indy car racing, or other similiar applications. A lot of those choices involove cost limitations for sure. 
What I can speak to with some knowledge is that carbon MFG in China does not compare to carbon MFG in Taiwan, no only because the the expierence of production, but also due to MFG production standards being higher in Taiwan vs China, which is why production is being moved to China because it cost more to MFG stuff in Taiwan. I'm sure some people here have a lot more knowledge on this subject than I do, but this is what I've been told by someone close to the topic.


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## Lil Dale (Feb 19, 2009)

The System Six/SS fork has been made in China since 06 and I haven't really heard of any issues nor has anyone I know stopped buying them because of that. Not saying a frame is the same as a fork but...


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## SicBith (Jan 21, 2008)

Where did you see the production information?


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## Lil Dale (Feb 19, 2009)

SicBith said:


> Where did you see the production information?


Our team rep mentioned it + if you have one look on the inner side and you'll see the made in China sticker.


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## SicBith (Jan 21, 2008)

Lil Dale said:


> Our team rep mentioned it + if you have one look on the inner side and you'll see the made in China sticker.



I'll check it out. Thanks


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## RoadBikeVirgin (Nov 21, 2008)

STARNUT said:


> (not at ping777)
> 
> 1. big logos = cool. I was so sad when the got rid of the "pro wrap" down tube logo with 4 C'dale logos. This has been a dislike in the past form some people. I figured that all the whiners that bemoan the move would be flying the American made C'Dale flag with giant logos. Or does pride stop at vanity and personal taste? How many people do you see whine about a Parlee Z4? right.................
> 
> ...


I'm actually kind of excited to see what happens when the CAADs are finally made overseas. I received my CAAD9 frameset about two weeks ago - imperfections in the paint, lousy filing job around the bottom bracket - non drive side, small chunks of aluminum sliding around in one of the seatstays that won't come out, every decal on the bike off-center. US manufacturing at its best, I guess  Maybe the guys on the line decided that since they'd be out of a job this summer, maybe they just shouldn't try as hard.


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## STARNUT (Jun 19, 2005)

Thankfully you're not the only one who feels awkward writing 10 :lol:




ping771 said:


> But Zinn's statement, "All of this hand laying-up of layers into molds is labor-intensive, and Cannondale has abandoned its lifelong commitment to domestic frame production. The frame is made in China with lower labor costs." may have to be read between the lines. Zinn had to mean something in writing that.
> 
> Finally, I hope that the lower labor costs in the 2010 SS translate into a lower purchase price to the consumer. Otherwise, what's the point? Unless they're saying that if they were to continue to make the SS in the US it would be prohibitively expensive, even more than it is now.



Having had many (sadly) run-ins with LZ, I can say he's a self serving dip$hit and generally has an axe or crankarm to grind. Why couldn't he write "the frame is made in China where carbon manufacturing quality is higher"? The guys at Velosnooze are worthless.......... and Zinn leads the bunch. Everyone is allowed to say stupid stuff every once in a while, but he's abusing the privilege.

You hit the nail on the head. We can't (cheaply) figure out hiow to manufacture a 900 grams frame without them breaking. All the peopl ethat bemoan the move probably won't put their moneyy where their mouth is. That is to say; we could make the new Supers here but it be 2x the cost and no one is willing to pay for it.

As a community (of cyclists) we demand light, stiff, durable, comfortable, and cheap and those are hard to hit with domestic manufacturing.


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## 123prs (Jun 19, 2007)

The sticker on the inside of my SS fork says "Made in Taiwan." Not "Made in China."


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## ping771 (Apr 10, 2006)

STARNUT said:


> Thankfully you're not the only one who feels awkward writing 10 :lol:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Yes, I believe that Zinn was taking a thinly disguised swipe at Cdale in that statement. But do you know if the SS frame and fork will be in made in Taiwan or China? The feeling people here seem to be saying that quality is better in Taiwan as opposed to mainland China. 

And from your previous comment, it looks like the 2010 SS will be similarly priced as the 09, if not a couple hundred dollars more. On another tangent, what will happen to the CAAD in 2010? 1) Will it still be around 2) if so, US made or not?


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## SicBith (Jan 21, 2008)

STARNUT said:


> Thankfully you're not the only one who feels awkward writing 10 :lol:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Don't get me wrong on this. I believe frames like the Super need to be priced so that we can all afford them, which means overseas production for sure.
I'm sure China will catch up to Taiwan in carbon mfg, but in terms of risk I'm told by a reliable source, when your Chinese frame breaks due to MFG standards and you're hurt you are more SOL then when your Taiwan frame breaks. I'm staying with my 08 until Cannondale moves to Taiwan, or China catches up with the standards of Taiwan.


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## zamboni (Sep 11, 2003)

True most of the Caad road forks were made in China and most of the caron raw materials are coming from Japan & U.S.


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## tbong27 (Oct 6, 2008)

Beautiful bikes! too bad they cost sooo much


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## BikeProf (May 9, 2006)

zamboni said:


> Ping771,
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Just a minor quibble: I'm pretty sure the R&D is actually here in CT. The local C'Dale engineers regularly put the hurt on us in races and training rides.


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## Bad Ronald (May 18, 2009)

Bedford has manufacturing engineers, Bethel has all the design engineers. All product development and styling comes out of Bethel. Oh and they can and do rip the legs off the local pros. Pretty awesome! As for where carbon comes from...Japan is the most likely source as Mitsubishi is the biggest carbon dealer in the cycling industry. There will be no US carbon getting shipped to Asia. The other thing is that China is THE source for high end Carbon manufacturing. The misconception is that only good Carbon is coming from Taiwan...well that is marketing from one Taiwanese manufacturer trying to convince you otherwise (Giant). Every bike that sells with any kind of numbers comes out of China. The workers are incredibly talented and dedicated to making the best products they can. 

Now back to these bikes...Beautiful! They are a marked improvement and while it would be cool to still make them in America, the market has spoken and said "We don't pay 'dat."


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## traumabill (Sep 16, 2007)

Welcome to the road side Bad Ronald...Stick around!


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## Devastator (May 11, 2009)

On the subject of forks from China/Taiwan, Im pretty sure the fork on my Systemsix said made in China. And well I cant say for sure it was a manufacturing error or just damage during shipment, but I think my fork had a hairline fracture and then cracked worse when I went out for a test ride on it. After I brought it home I rode it 5miles looked down and noticed the fork had a significant crack wrapping around part of the fork and you could see the aluminum under the carbon. So yeah I have had issues with the fork, then I thought eh maybe its because that part is made in China, little did I know Id end of with a crack in the frame which wasnt made in China. Sadly Ive had nothing but problems with my bike and the carbon.


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## SicBith (Jan 21, 2008)

Bad Ronald said:


> Bedford has manufacturing engineers, Bethel has all the design engineers. All product development and styling comes out of Bethel. Oh and they can and do rip the legs off the local pros. Pretty awesome! As for where carbon comes from...Japan is the most likely source as Mitsubishi is the biggest carbon dealer in the cycling industry. There will be no US carbon getting shipped to Asia. The other thing is that China is THE source for high end Carbon manufacturing. The misconception is that only good Carbon is coming from Taiwan...well that is marketing from one Taiwanese manufacturer trying to convince you otherwise (Giant). Every bike that sells with any kind of numbers comes out of China. The workers are incredibly talented and dedicated to making the best products they can.
> 
> Now back to these bikes...Beautiful! They are a marked improvement and while it would be cool to still make them in America, the market has spoken and said "We don't pay 'dat."


China is not THE source for high end carbon. If that were the case all high end carbon would be made there. Giant is not the company talking about Chinese Carbon quality. It is an independent firm that deals with liability/risk claims in sporting goods. They act as a middle man between vendors, and factories. According to them they have less warranty issues, and more reliable relationships with Taiwanese factories.


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## Bad Ronald (May 18, 2009)

Cool, what's the name of the company? I'd love to learn more about it.  As for where the bikes are made, if they're not making bikes in China now, they will be soon. Even reputable french brands have their bikes made there


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## SicBith (Jan 21, 2008)

It's a law firm that represents a variety of sporting goods companies including Look Cycles


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## 123prs (Jun 19, 2007)

Who makes the rear-wheel bike stand shown in the photographs of the three 2010 SS bikes?


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