# Astana in trouble?



## bigpinkt (Jul 20, 2006)

The rumor is the staff hasn't been paid for a month. The "sponsors" were a bunch of rich Kazakhstan who have not faired well in the Global Economic downturn. They might not be too excited about putting what is left of their cash into a cycling team 

Shouldn't be hard for them to find a new sponsor.


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## jupiterrn (Sep 22, 2006)

bigpinkt said:


> The rumor is the staff hasn't been paid for a month. The "sponsors" were a bunch of rich Kazakhstan who have not faired well in the Global Economic downturn. They might not be too excited about putting what is left of their cash into a cycling team
> 
> Shouldn't be hard for them to find a new sponsor.



Link please.


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## MarkS (Feb 3, 2004)

bigpinkt said:


> The rumor is the staff hasn't been paid for a month. The "sponsors" were a bunch of rich Kazakhstan who have not faired well in the Global Economic downturn. They might not be too excited about putting what is left of their cash into a cycling team
> 
> Shouldn't be hard for them to find a new sponsor.


Doesn't the UCI require that a pro team post a bond to cover salaries and expenses for some period?


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## ProRoad (Oct 13, 2008)

I heard France is buying up the team so they can have more control over Lance......

Is it still April?

Brian


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## alexb618 (Aug 24, 2006)

MarkS said:


> Doesn't the UCI require that a pro team post a bond to cover salaries and expenses for some period?


i have a feeling it's 3 months?


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## FondriestFan (May 19, 2005)

Here's the Google-translated link from astanafans.com:

http://translate.google.com/transla...xolodnyj-dush.html&sl=ru&tl=en&hl=ru&ie=UTF-8


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## foxadam (Mar 3, 2007)

FondriestFan said:


> Here's the Google-translated link from astanafans.com:
> 
> http://translate.google.com/transla...xolodnyj-dush.html&sl=ru&tl=en&hl=ru&ie=UTF-8


This says it all...

A wish perekupit command is?
— Enough.

— What are the indicative price of our velokonyushni?
— No comment.


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## Bry03cobra (Oct 31, 2006)

Team Livestrong


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## CoffeeBean2 (Aug 6, 2005)

jupiterrn said:


> Link please.


Here you go...

http://www.interfax.kz/?lang=eng&int_id=10&function=view&news_id=2595


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## teoteoteo (Sep 8, 2002)

bigpinkt said:


> The rumor is the staff hasn't been paid for a month. The "sponsors" were a bunch of rich Kazakhstan who have not faired well in the Global Economic downturn. They might not be too excited about putting what is left of their cash into a cycling team
> 
> Shouldn't be hard for them to find a new sponsor.



Upside is better kits


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## Digger28 (Oct 9, 2008)

Surely a shampoo company will step in and sponsor if the worst comes to the worst


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## ashpelham (Jan 19, 2006)

If looking for a sponsor, think of companies that are making money at this MOMENT. The list is short. However, some come to mind....

Goldman Sachs. (Too much pushback from the press for them, though). 
Wal Mart. 
Subaru. (only car maker turning a nice buck these days)

That's all I got. Any other ideas?


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## Trux (Dec 19, 2001)

*Astana in trouble*

Any pharmaceutical company - pick one. Just imagine a pro cycling team sposored by a drug company. The marketing opportunities are mind boggling!


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## iliveonnitro (Feb 19, 2006)

Digger28 said:


> Surely a shampoo company will step in and sponsor if the worst comes to the worst


Or Smith and Wesson. I heard they have record sales in this economy.


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## bigpinkt (Jul 20, 2006)

teoteoteo said:


> Upside is better kits


:thumbsup: 

It looks like we may see the new kits and new team name at the Giro.


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## The Moontrane (Nov 28, 2005)

iliveonnitro said:


> Or Smith and Wesson. I heard they have record sales in this economy.


Contador already has the finishing line victory pose for a S&W sponsorship.


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## DIRT BOY (Aug 22, 2002)

CoffeeBean2 said:


> Here you go...
> 
> http://www.interfax.kz/?lang=eng&int_id=10&function=view&news_id=2595


Johan the DS last year and the year before I think. 

This article says this is the first year with Astana under Johan. So maybe they have ZERO idea what they are talking about.


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## FondriestFan (May 19, 2005)

Budweiser-Marlboro p/b Smith & Wesson


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## parity (Feb 28, 2006)

Lance is too big to fail. I smell a bail out.


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## mohair_chair (Oct 3, 2002)

Maybe they can go back to Liberty Seguros.


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## zosocane (Aug 29, 2004)

Trek Test Team. :23:


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## MarkS (Feb 3, 2004)

alexb618 said:


> i have a feeling it's 3 months?



You're correct. Here is an excerpt from the UCI regs:

_2.15.098 The amount of the guarantee shall represent one quarter of all the gross sums due for payment by the UCI ProTeam to riders and persons under contract for the operation of the team during the registration year. . . ._


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## Mootsie (Feb 4, 2004)

ashpelham said:


> If looking for a sponsor, think of companies that are making money at this MOMENT. The list is short. However, some come to mind....
> 
> Goldman Sachs. (Too much pushback from the press for them, though).
> Wal Mart.
> ...


Making money AND want a Euro presence.....one comes to mind, the Belge firm InBev makers of Budweiser, Leffe, etc.....

Hey my 900th post is about beer. Imagine that............


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## Creakyknees (Sep 21, 2003)

I wonder if LA has been selling enough FRS that he could fund the rest of the season out of his pocket? Livestrong / Trek / FRS + a bunch of minor sponsors could work.


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## thechriswebb (Nov 21, 2008)

The Moontrane said:


> Contador already has the finishing line victory pose for a S&W sponsorship.


....


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## Einstruzende (Jun 1, 2004)

Armstrong doesn't need to put his money into it, because if Astana folds, other teams will be falling over themselves to get him. So while he might want FRS to do well, he gets just as much publicity riding for a team as he does owning it. Or near enough.


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## Slow Eddie (Jun 28, 2004)

Trux said:


> Any pharmaceutical company - pick one. Just imagine a pro cycling team sposored by a drug company. The marketing opportunities are mind boggling!


Been there, won that.


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## Coolhand (Jul 28, 2002)

Einstruzende said:


> Armstrong doesn't need to put his money into it, because if Astana folds, other teams will be falling over themselves to get him. So while he might want FRS to do well, he gets just as much publicity riding for a team as he does owning it. Or near enough.


Not to mention Conty, Levi, Kloden ect. . . .


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## Einstruzende (Jun 1, 2004)

Coolhand said:


> Not to mention Conty, Levi, Kloden ect. . . .


Well sure, but regardless of what wins a rider may get for the company, fact is Armstrong will bring more publicity than the other guys. At least for a world wide audience.


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## bigpinkt (Jul 20, 2006)

Mootsie said:


> Making money AND want a Euro presence.....one comes to mind, the Belge firm InBev makers of Budweiser, Leffe, etc.....
> 
> Hey my 900th post is about beer. Imagine that............


That would be cool.....If it meant I could get one of these on my bar with Lefe in it I would wear a yellow Speedo


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## cyclejim (Mar 31, 2004)

foxadam said:


> This says it all...
> 
> A wish perekupit command is?
> — Enough.
> ...


 Love it


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## Coolhand (Jul 28, 2002)

Einstruzende said:


> Well sure, but regardless of what wins a rider may get for the company, fact is Armstrong will bring more publicity than the other guys. At least for a world wide audience.


True, but the deal would need to be for 3+ years so Conty would be a vital aspect as Armstrong is probably only going to ride for a year or two at most. 

Sponsors? Microsoft or Google makes sense, and so would McDonalds.


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## moonmoth (Nov 8, 2008)

bigpinkt said:


> Shouldn't be hard for them to find a new sponsor.


I had once thought the same thing about Discovery: that this team would be snapped up in a second, and that there was no way it would be allowed to disband.


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## Einstruzende (Jun 1, 2004)

moonmoth said:


> I had once thought the same thing about Discovery: that this team would be snapped up in a second, and that there was no way it would be allowed to disband.


I suspect there's more to the story to tell you the truth. Sure didn't take long for Brunyeel to "unretire." 

If we're just throwing out sponsor's we'd like to see in the pro ranks, I like Coke or Pepsi. I also have thought Nike would make a great sponsor too, but I guess the problem is they can't figure out if they want to make cycling apparel or not.


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## ProRoad (Oct 13, 2008)

The Hollywood studios can afford it I think. I can see it now, the jerseys change every week to promote a new film release. Rock and republic can do the kits, since they do a lot for themselves anyway.

I am currently working on 2012 for November release.

http://www.whowillsurvive2012.com/
Brian


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## lalahsghost (Aug 27, 2007)

Trux said:


> Any pharmaceutical company - pick one. Just imagine a pro cycling team sposored by a drug company. The marketing opportunities are mind boggling!


Does the US based Team Rite-Aid count?


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## rook (Apr 5, 2009)

Bry03cobra said:


> Team Livestrong


Unfortunately, this is what's likely to happen. Rider's salaries for the months covered by Astana and the new team would be in doubt. If I were them, I'd start shopping my resume to other teams before Armstrong tries to stop them from doing that.


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## The Tedinator (Mar 12, 2004)

http://sports.yahoo.com/sc/news;_yl...p.grcF?slug=ap-astana-wages&prov=ap&type=lgns


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## bigpinkt (Jul 20, 2006)

ProRoad said:


> The Hollywood studios can afford it I think. I can see it now, the jerseys change every week to promote a new film release.


Good idea. I can think of a movie that would be perfect. 

<div>



<br /><b><a href="http://www.dailymotion.com/video/xcshi_borat-movie-trailer_fun">Borat movie trailer</a></b><br /><i>Uploaded by <a href="http://www.dailymotion.com/Videogeezer">Videogeezer</a></i></div>

Kazair is the first sponsor to exit. They are looking for a replacement but Armstrong's dodging the AFLD is not helping.


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## monocognizant (Sep 12, 2008)

Well, I get the bond between Johan and Lance but, think Lance should be riding for an American team anyway.


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## weltyed (Feb 6, 2004)

gotta be someone with international needs. 
it was my understanding disco left because lance was no longer racing. they gave other reasons, but come on...
a hollywood studio would be cool with new jerseys for the month's big movie opening. they could be done by primal wear!
but teh problem is the jersey needs to be approved at the start of the season, and no changes after. ask quick step.

coke? pepsi? cadbury? nestle? al jazeera?

looks like they are being paid. for now/


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## uzziefly (Jul 15, 2006)

This will be interesting to follow, especially from Johan's and Lance's point of view.

Also, I'd like to hear what Alberto and others have to say about this. It could well be like Discovery yet again with the riders not having much of a clue at the start.


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## JSR (Feb 27, 2006)

The Tedinator said:


> http://sports.yahoo.com/sc/news;_ylt=Aqy.SkwqXTp20oaClylTaRp.grcF?slug=ap-astana-wages&prov=ap&type=lgns


 "Under the stewardship of Johan Bruyneel, who became team manager in 2007, Astana has secured victories in the Vuelta of Castilla and Leon and the Giro d’Italia." Ooooookaaaaay.....


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## rook (Apr 5, 2009)

Astana team website is currently down. For maintenance? Or for good?

http://www.team-astana.eu/


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## FondriestFan (May 19, 2005)

rook said:


> Astana team website is currently down. For maintenance? Or for good?
> 
> http://www.team-astana.eu/


That's not the Astana team site, rookie.

http://www.astana-cyclingteam.com/


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## iliveonnitro (Feb 19, 2006)

The Moontrane said:


> Contador already has the finishing line victory pose for a S&W sponsorship.


That's why I said it...:thumbsup:


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## haikalah (Oct 5, 2004)

*Breaking news. Astana is out of TDF*

http://www.fatcyclist.com/


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## FondriestFan (May 19, 2005)

haikalah said:


> http://www.fatcyclist.com/


Meh. Trying too hard to be funny.


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## The Moontrane (Nov 28, 2005)

iliveonnitro said:


> That's why I said it...:thumbsup:


Your subtleness drew in my bluntness.
Like a moth to a flame!


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## jtab1 (Mar 6, 2009)

Redbull is one company that sponsors a lot of athletes. They sponsor a lot of mountain bikers and bmx riders. Maybe it might be a stretch for them to sponsor a cycling team, for it may not be "extreme enough" as compared to the other sports they sponsor. I do not know how that would work logistically with LA's sponsorship with FRS. But I am sure they would have some pretty bada*s kits, if a redbull cycling team were ever to happen.


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## jsedlak (Jun 17, 2008)

Porsche
or Ferrari


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## alexb618 (Aug 24, 2006)

jsedlak said:


> Porsche
> or Ferrari


how about GM or Citibank


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## jtab1 (Mar 6, 2009)

alexb618 said:


> how about GM or Citibank



GM? They might file for bankruptcy... Unless they get another bailout then technically it will be government funded cycling team...


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## thesmokingman (Dec 27, 2008)

jsedlak said:


> Porsche
> or Ferrari


Porsche pulled the plug on a ALMS and a few other series for budget reasons. I doubt they would sponsor anything else or they'd face flack for not "auto" racing.

Ferrari is too busy getting their butts kicked by Brawn... who is racing with 1/5th the budget of Modena.

Citibank... I'd be really pissed if this is what they spent our tax dollars on.


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## moonmoth (Nov 8, 2008)

monocognizant said:


> Well, I get the bond between Johan and Lance but, think Lance should be riding for an American team anyway.


Perhaps. But the jury is still out whether American companies like Garmin or Columbia are actually getting value out of their sponsorship dollars. These teams, for the most part, are racing in Europe, not the USA. Do you think that the hundreds of thousands of Belgians lining up along Flanders will go out and subscribe to the Discovery Channel, buy stamps from US Postal, a GPS from Garmin, or get go get outfitted with Columbia gear? Same for the Italian spectators watching the Giro, or the Spanish at the Vuelta. 

This is the dilemma of any US company thinking about a ProTour sponsorship. Would their money be better spent on the NBA, Nascar, college football, March madness, PGA Golf, etc.?


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## ultimobici (Jul 16, 2005)

moonmoth said:


> Perhaps. But the jury is still out whether American companies like Garmin or Columbia are actually getting value out of their sponsorship dollars. These teams, for the most part, are racing in Europe, not the USA. Do you think that the hundreds of thousands of Belgians lining up along Flanders will go out and subscribe to the Discovery Channel, buy stamps from US Postal, a GPS from Garmin, or get go get outfitted with Columbia gear? Same for the Italian spectators watching the Giro, or the Spanish at the Vuelta.
> 
> This is the dilemma of any US company thinking about a ProTour sponsorship. Would their money be better spent on the NBA, Nascar, college football, March madness, PGA Golf, etc.?


Smart business sense to only promote your business to 300 million people, ignoring the 731 million across the Atlantic in Europe! USPS was a little unusual, but Garmin, Columbia and Discovery make sense.


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## waldo425 (Sep 22, 2008)

teoteoteo said:


> Upside is better kits


Honestly, thats not saying much. Still an ugly kit.


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## Rot Weiss Essen (Nov 10, 2008)

What about AIG? They always seem to have some extra cash laying around!


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## DS1239622 (Mar 21, 2007)

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/20...astana.wages.1st.ld.writethru.0373/index.html


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## Fredrik1 (Nov 26, 2002)

*An american team*

Team Obama sponsored by GM, AIG, Goldman, Citi, USPS, AFL/CIO, etc. I just wonder what restrictions the government would put on the riders.


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## Circlip (Jul 26, 2005)

jsedlak said:


> Ferrari


The car company or the doctor?


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## jd3 (Oct 8, 2004)

Circlip said:


> The car company or the doctor?


ROFLMAO


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## JSR (Feb 27, 2006)

ultimobici said:


> Smart business sense to only promote your business to 300 million people, ignoring the 731 million across the Atlantic in Europe! USPS was a little unusual, but Garmin, Columbia and Discovery make sense.


Agreed. Columbia and Garmin both said they were making major pushes into the European market. Sponsorship of bke racing makes excellent sense as a component of that strategy. 

Discovery Channel was also bent on making an impact in Europe. I don't know if it worked for them.

I've racked my brain for justification of the USPS sponsorship. The best I've come up with is that is was a small part of their marketing budget, so thanks for coming out to play!

JSR


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## jukebox (Sep 6, 2005)

JSR said:


> Agreed. Columbia and Garmin both said they were making major pushes into the European market. Sponsorship of bke racing makes excellent sense as a component of that strategy.
> 
> Discovery Channel was also bent on making an impact in Europe. I don't know if it worked for them.
> 
> ...


They were trying to boost usage of usps for overseas shipments, not sure if it worked or not.


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## bigpinkt (Jul 20, 2006)

http://bicycling.com/blogs/boulderreport/2009/05/04/will-the-giro-be-astanas-last-race/

Joe Lindsey has a pretty good review of the situation and the history.


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## FondriestFan (May 19, 2005)

Fredrik1 said:


> Team Obama sponsored by GM, AIG, Goldman, Citi, USPS, AFL/CIO, etc. I just wonder what restrictions the government would put on the riders.


Nothing falls quite as flat as Republican attempts at humor.

Let's stick to the topic, Rush, mmkay?


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## loudog (Jul 22, 2008)

Coolhand said:


> True, but the deal would need to be for 3+ years so Conty would be a vital aspect as Armstrong is probably only going to ride for a year or two at most.
> 
> Sponsors? Microsoft or Google makes sense, and so would McDonalds.


i like the idea of apple computer coming in too. they have 29 billion in cash reserves and steve jobs is a cancer survivor...


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## rook (Apr 5, 2009)

*Astana is done!!!!! almost.*

ESPN recently reported that Astana is going down. Bye bye suckas! The team will fold mid year, but there is no reports on when exactly. Might be sooner than the Tour. That is where it gets tricky. They won't be able to do any ProTour events, but the Tour de France is not under a ProTour agreement. However, since they aren't under a ProTour license, then that means the riders aren't under contractual obligation to remain. Apparently, the money has run dry and riders aren't getting paid again. I bet Levi will stay and Armstrong will try to get his legal team in to make sure the others don't take off, but this is a great opportunity for Contador to get a new contract with a team that will pay him. Because as of right now. There is no money left to pay any of the riders. Armstrong draws his own salary from his sponsors so he isn't affected.


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## Coolhand (Jul 28, 2002)

*Or not.*

Details:

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2009/more/05/07/armstrong-astana.ap/index.html



> The seven-time Tour de France winner also said he would do everything he could to keep defending Giro winner and 2007 Tour champion Alberto Contador if ownership ends up in his hands.
> 
> "If I were the boss of the team or I were partners with Johan, I would want him on the team," Armstrong said. "I would not let him go. No way. Obviously I would have to pay him, let's be fair, but he's the best rider in the sport right now. If you want to look for the next 5-10 years in cycling, we would have to do everything to keep him."


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## serbski (Dec 2, 2002)

Isn't a major sticking point going to be who actually holds the UCI license for the team? I recall that there was quite an issue when Liberty Seguros folded and Manolo Saiz held the license and was a bit reluctant to hand over the license to Vino's folks to let them get on with re-building the team. In fact, Saiz was threatening to build a separate team. If Vino gets back in the picture I envisage a similar scenario...


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## rook (Apr 5, 2009)

*Armstrong trying to steal team away from Astana to Nike Livestrong*



serbski said:


> Isn't a major sticking point going to be who actually holds the UCI license for the team? I recall that there was quite an issue when Liberty Seguros folded and Manolo Saiz held the license and was a bit reluctant to hand over the license to Vino's folks to let them get on with re-building the team. In fact, Saiz was threatening to build a separate team. If Vino gets back in the picture I envisage a similar scenario...



Yeah, that's really gonna screw up things for Armstrong. From the sounds of it, Armstrong is trying to use Astana's failure as an opportunity to steal the team away to his new sponsors in waiting. Because, if what Armstrong is hinting at in a recent interview is true, then "the title sponsor on Tiger's bag" would become the new sponsor in time for the Tour de France. Obviously Nike would love to be the company that saved the team and kept Armstrong's comeback alive.

Then what is taking Armstrong so long? Neither he or Johan has the ProTour license of the team. Astana does. And even though the Tour and Giro are not on the Pro Tour, there are still contractual obligations to the riders. Contador is using some Pro Tour races in prep leading up to the Tour de France. This is his out as is for many of the riders. So what now? Pro Tour license transfers just do not happen. It is mistakenly believed that when Liberty-Segurus went down a couple years ago, there was a title transfer and the team kept going. That was not the case. So bottom line. If Armstrong's attorney's can figure out a way to get the license to Johan or Armstrong's name, then this team will be the Nike Livestrongs.


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## bsaunder (Oct 27, 2004)

If Astana doesn't pay the team, they lose the license, ie it can not be stolen as it would be no longer theirs. There is no stealing going on that I can see unless you know that Armstrong is blocking the payments that Astana is actually trying to make.


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## ProRoad (Oct 13, 2008)

There are a lot of Nike's in this picture.....

http://www.cyclingnews.com/photos/2009/giro09/?id=/photos/2009/giro09/teams_presentation/PIC27702712


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## JSR (Feb 27, 2006)

rook said:


> If Armstrong's attorney's can figure out a way to get the license to Johan or Armstrong's name, then this team will be the Nike Livestrongs.


Livestrong has issued a statement that as a 501(c)3 not-for-profit organization they could not sponsor a pro cycling team.

JSR


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## wiz525 (Dec 31, 2007)

rook said:


> Yeah, that's really gonna screw up things for Armstrong. From the sounds of it, Armstrong is trying to use Astana's failure as an opportunity to steal the team away to his new sponsors in waiting. Because, if what Armstrong is hinting at in a recent interview is true, then "the title sponsor on Tiger's bag" would become the new sponsor in time for the Tour de France. Obviously Nike would love to be the company that saved the team and kept Armstrong's comeback alive.


the title sponsor on Tiger's bag has been Buick until this year. And now it's AT&T...


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## kretzel (Aug 1, 2007)

The irony of Nike jumping back in to spend more $ on cycling sponsorship, after their product line in the segment has finally flopped itself to long painful death, would be too much. 

But the team would have enough exposure to help them sell some fine running shoes!


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## loudog (Jul 22, 2008)

nike isnt going to pony up. the only way they could work into cycling would be to buy a company like Assos and move on from there. i could see companies like Bristol Myers Squibb, Apple Computer, Coke/Powerade, or Pepsi/Gatorade getting involved. Pepsi/Gatorade makes sense because they are trying to move into the higher end sport supplement market.


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## grrrah (Jul 22, 2005)

rook said:


> Yeah, that's really gonna screw up things for Armstrong. From the sounds of it, Armstrong is trying to use Astana's failure as an opportunity to steal the team away to his new sponsors in waiting. Because, if what Armstrong is hinting at in a recent interview is true, then "the title sponsor on Tiger's bag" would become the new sponsor in time for the Tour de France. Obviously Nike would love to be the company that saved the team and kept Armstrong's comeback alive.
> 
> Then what is taking Armstrong so long? Neither he or Johan has the ProTour license of the team. Astana does. And even though the Tour and Giro are not on the Pro Tour, there are still contractual obligations to the riders. Contador is using some Pro Tour races in prep leading up to the Tour de France. This is his out as is for many of the riders. So what now? Pro Tour license transfers just do not happen. It is mistakenly believed that when Liberty-Segurus went down a couple years ago, there was a title transfer and the team kept going. That was not the case. So bottom line. If Armstrong's attorney's can figure out a way to get the license to Johan or Armstrong's name, then this team will be the Nike Livestrongs.


There are several people on this board that don't like lance, and bring up good arguments against him. You are not one of them.


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## FondriestFan (May 19, 2005)

loudog said:


> i could see companies like Bristol Myers Squibb


Yeah, baby. Better cycling through chemistry.


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## maximum7 (Apr 24, 2008)

Why don't one of the Cell carriers sponsor a team. Aren't most of them "international", plus it's a commodity that will never go away.


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## asdasd44 (Apr 24, 2007)

maximum7 said:


> Why don't one of the Cell carriers sponsor a team. Aren't most of them "international", plus it's a commodity that will never go away.


Like T-mobile? lol


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## rook (Apr 5, 2009)

*Nike Livestrong*



loudog said:


> nike isnt going to pony up. the only way they could work into cycling would be to buy a company like Assos and move on from there. i could see companies like Bristol Myers Squibb, Apple Computer, Coke/Powerade, or Pepsi/Gatorade getting involved. Pepsi/Gatorade makes sense because they are trying to move into the higher end sport supplement market.




Nike can and will pony up. If Armstrong gets the license over to Johann or himself, then the team will be the Nike Livestrongs.


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## ProRoad (Oct 13, 2008)

How about Sprint? mostly a crit team I would think..


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## bigpinkt (Jul 20, 2006)

If the rumors about Vino's desire to return are correct Astana's financial issues may be even cloudier then what has been reported. 

This is Vino's team. He put it together and he is the reason the sponsors put in the cash. He also is supposed to be the reason the cash is no longer flowing to the team. Most of the companies that sponsored Astana are natural resource companies (Oil, Gas). While prices have fallen they are still higher then when Vino started the team in 06. 

Johann has been pretty open in his dislike for Vino. When Vino said he wanted to return to race the Olympics Johann's first response was that he would rather die then have Vino on the team. 

If what I hear is correct this could get really ugly in the next couple of weeks. The Kazakh's own the Pro Tour License, Johann owns the bus, cars,and service course. Those things are easy to replace but the UCI would have to bend some serious rules to get Johann/Lance a Pro Tour License in the middle of the season.


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## ProRoad (Oct 13, 2008)

Very interesting for sure.. I doubt if they actually need a Pro Tour License for the races that they want to do (the tour), but it would sure make things easier in the long run..

I agree about the Vino return and the Kazakh's hesitation to lose the team outright.

Brian.


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## alexb618 (Aug 24, 2006)

bigpinkt said:


> the UCI would have to bend some serious rules to get Johann/Lance a Pro Tour License in the middle of the season.


these 'rules' you speak of read tabloids and love cancer. we hate rules!


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## rook (Apr 5, 2009)

ProRoad said:


> Very interesting for sure.. I doubt if they actually need a Pro Tour License for the races that they want to do (the tour), but it would sure make things easier in the long run..
> 
> I agree about the Vino return and the Kazakh's hesitation to lose the team outright.
> 
> Brian.



Even though the Tour de France and Giro are not on the ProTour calendar, the UCI can still sanction Astana from competing in the race if issues are not resolved, in particular salaries to not only the team riders, but salaries of the Astana employees. People have families to feed too. So, if this situation isn't resolved the UCI may still take action. UCI head, McQuaid was non-committal when asked if any UCI action would be taken if the situation is not resolved. However, with the good relationship between Armstrong and McQuaid, I do not think that the UCI will take any measures against the team. Still a dicey issue though, because Armstrong or Johann really need to get the ProTour license just to be on the safe side. It would not be ethical or legal for them to do so though unless the current owners agree to it. It's not gonna happen. They need to let Vinokourov back on and all will be well.


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## bigpinkt (Jul 20, 2006)

The UCI has extended the drop dead date to May 31st. If they do not come up with the cash the team will be suspended. 

The cash outstanding is large. They burned threw the UCI deposit of $2 million over a month ago. By May 31st they will be $3-4 million behind. You would also assume that the UCI would mandate an increase in the deposit. 

The Kazakh's are not returning Johann's calls. Armstrong used the B word today (Borat). It would be a surprise if they suddenly changed their mind and paid in full. 

Could the Pro Tour license change hands mid season? More likely is the license holder could change the paying agent (Johann and his holding company) mid season.....but would the contracts go with it? Johann would not need a Pro Tour License, but it would be serious stretch in the rules for the UCI to give out another license mid season. 

What a mess.


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## bigpinkt (Jul 20, 2006)

Finally some good news.....New kit coming Thursday. No more Blue and Yellow. Also Armstrong secretary/errand boy Pat McQuaid is traveling to Astana (the place, not the team) next week.


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## bigpinkt (Jul 20, 2006)

Looks like the old kit may be coming back. A large payment came in from the Kazakh's. They are still not whole but they may be out of the woods.


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## rook (Apr 5, 2009)

McQuaid knows who pays his bills.


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## saird (Aug 19, 2008)

rook said:


> McQuaid knows who pays his bills.



I wish I knew who paid *my* bills.


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## waldo425 (Sep 22, 2008)

saird said:


> I wish I knew who paid *my* bills.


Sometimes I wish that I had more bills just so that I could have the affirmation that I Have money (no job, no money.)


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## ultimobici (Jul 16, 2005)

bigpinkt said:


> Looks like the old kit may be coming back. A large payment came in from the Kazakh's. They are still not whole but they may be out of the woods.


Any more news? Two days to go....


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## CabDoctor (Jun 11, 2005)

waldo425 said:


> Sometimes I wish that I had more bills just so that I could have the affirmation that I Have money (no job, no money.)


More time to ride


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## Rolando (Jan 13, 2005)

By the way Lance has been riding, it is obvious that he has been focusing ONLY on the race. I am sure he has someone running the numbers for him and seeing what the different options are but until this race is over, Lance will not look too deeply into this stuff. I admire that he hasn't let this distract him or the team. This is not easy to accomplish in the world of Pro Sports.


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## bigpinkt (Jul 20, 2006)

ultimobici said:


> Any more news? Two days to go....


Who knows what to believe on this, but it appears that the kazakh's might lose the license

-While some riders and staff say they have not been payed others, including Horner and most of the Spanish staff, have said they have been consistently paid. 

-Supposedly the kazakh made a payment of $3 million about a week ago. This combine with the $2 million UCI deposit is a good chunk of $$$ but Johann says it was not enough

-Supposedly the UCI is going to say that it was too late and the Kasakh's are going to have their license revoked on June 11. 

Wonder who the UCI will assign the license too? I am sure a nice "Donation" will make that process easier.


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## waldo425 (Sep 22, 2008)

CabDoctor said:


> More time to ride


 that is an upside, and trust me Ive been taking advantage of it. Been biking near constantly for the past couple of months which is great training for the 204 miles I'm doing on July 11th. Downside is that I want a new bike now. Some sources say thats a key hint that I'm way overtrained but I say its just me wanting a new bike  overtraining whats that? :idea:


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## kretzel (Aug 1, 2007)

Rolando said:


> By the way Lance has been riding, it is obvious that he has been focusing ONLY on the race. I am sure he has someone running the numbers for him and seeing what the different options are but until this race is over, Lance will not look too deeply into this stuff. I admire that he hasn't let this distract him or the team. This is not easy to accomplish in the world of Pro Sports.


True but remember, Lance isn't drawing a paycheck from the team anyways. His bread is already buttered to the nth degree, no worries for him.


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## Farmer Tan (Jan 25, 2009)

http://blog.oregonlive.com/horner/2009/05/armstrongs_astana_team_still_i.html#more

Armstrong's Astana team still in doubt for Tour de France
Posted by Associated Press May 30, 2009 09:35AM
Categories: Giro d'Italia, Tour de France
AVELLINO, Italy -- Lance Armstrong's financially strapped Astana team will likely survive for another few weeks, but it's unclear if it will make it to the Tour de France.

The International Cycling Union had set a Sunday deadline for the team to straighten out its financial situation or risk suspension.

"I think they'll meet the deadline," UCI president Pat McQuaid said. "The deadline we've given them is a bank-guarantee deadline and the payments are up to schedule."

Astana receives most of its financial support from Kazakh state holding company Samruk-Kazyna, but the Central Asian nation's economy has been badly hit by the ongoing global financial crisis.

"There's still no guarantees that the team will ride the Tour de France," McQuaid said, adding that the UCI has not received any long-term assurances from Kazakhstan.

While Armstrong is riding for free this season, the rest of the team's riders - including Chris Horner of Bend, Ore. - were missing two months of salary. The missed payments have forced Armstrong and seven other team members to protest by wearing jerseys with the sponsor names faded out in the Giro.

"They've paid sums of money in recent weeks," McQuaid said before the start of the 19th stage of the Giro.

Armstrong indicated before the Giro that he was talking to U.S.-based sponsors about taking over the team himself.

The Texan returned this season after 3 1/2 years of retirement and is planning to go for an eighth Tour de France title in July.

"There was a deadline for the bank guarantee and for the payments, but we've asked for other things since then," McQuaid said. "We've also asked the Kazakhs for other guarantees about the team for the rest of the year."

If Astana does not present long-term guarantees, it could lose its ProTour license.

"The license commission meets in mid-July and that's when any decision will be made," McQuaid said.

The Tour begins July 4.

Astana team manager Johan Bruyneel is planning to meet with McQuaid this weekend about the squad's future.

"We don't know yet what it's going to be called, but hopefully it's called Astana," Bruyneel said. "That would be the easiest."

Bruyneel added that star rider Alberto Contador has no plans to leave the team.

"I spoke with him yesterday at length," Bruyneel said. "There's not a single thought in his mind (to leave)."


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## carbonLORD (Aug 2, 2004)

I know SONY can't afford to do it, but what about a company like BestBuy? Seems to me a good way for them to get more pub in the international retail biz.


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## bigpinkt (Jul 20, 2006)

I hear that there is an American company that does business in Kazakhstan will be a new sponsor and save the team. 

The most obvious would be Frank Giustra's Uranium mining company. With the help of his good friend Bill Clinton he received a very good deal from the Kazakh government a few years ago, time to repay the favor.


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## baker921 (Jul 20, 2007)

If Astana have paid up why are the team riding in the "washed out" kit at the DL today?


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## doctor855 (Dec 27, 2008)

baker921 said:


> If Astana have paid up why are the team riding in the "washed out" kit at the DL today?


believe the sponsors that are washed out are still in a rears with their commitments to the team.


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## rook (Apr 5, 2009)

*Armstrong & Bruyneel still trying to get the UCI license*



doctor855 said:


> believe the sponsors that are washed out are still in a rears with their commitments to the team.




Armstrong and Bruyneel are still trying to steal the UCI team license from the current team owners so they can port the team over to their new sponsors in waiting, Nike. It's been previously reported that Armstrong has already contacted Nike about "rescuing" the team.


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## E 12 (Jul 13, 2008)

As an outsider with no real care on the subject, the LA-hate in here is as pronounced as the GW Bush hate was the last 8 years. Some people simply have myopic levels of ill feeling for LA for some reason. I just don't get it. Anyway, back on topic....

I'm not sure Nike is interested in getting back in to cycling full scale. Hell, unless your name IS Lance, you really don't see the swoosh much of anywhere around cycling anymore. From a business standpoint, I think they're much better off promoting Lebron James and various college football programs than they are one cycling team. Doesn't seem to make fiscal sense, in this economy anyway.


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## lalahsghost (Aug 27, 2007)

I hear they're so broke, they're patching up clincher inner tubes instead of tossing them!  :thumbsup:


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