# Is there a difference in feel between 8r and 10r carbon?



## LVbob (Mar 24, 2014)

I am considering purchasing either a Roubaix Elite or Roubaix Expert. Does the 10r frame ride differently than the 8r? I am assuming there is a difference in stiffness but what about vibration through the frame?


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## spdntrxi (Jul 25, 2013)

The higher number is will be lighter and stiffer.... unless you are pretty lightweight ..I'd opt 10r... every 8r frame (granted older models) was a wee bit too flexy for me


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## LVbob (Mar 24, 2014)

What about vibration? I have neck issues and want to minimize road buzz. I'm a beginner so either bike is overkill for me but I simply like looks of the Expert more including the Ultegra bling. Besides, I'm sure it will hold off upgraditis a bit longer.

The LBS didn't have the Expert in my size so I can't ride it to test for any difference.


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## spdntrxi (Jul 25, 2013)

that what the zertz is for... handlebar pad, gloves, lower psi in the front... even a cobbler gobbler seat post can be added.. Only a test ride can answer for sure...


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## LVbob (Mar 24, 2014)

Thanks spdntrxi. Since they have no Expert to test ride, I'm not sure what I'll do. Probably go for the Expert anyway for the above reasons.


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## scottma (May 18, 2012)

Expert has many upgrades from the Elite including the CG-R seatpost. 

Comparison


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## LVbob (Mar 24, 2014)

scottma said:


> Expert has many upgrades from the Elite including the CG-R seatpost.
> 
> Comparison


Yeah, I can pretty much quote the specs for both bikes. I realize the CG-R seatpost will take care of the back end, but my concern is if the 10r frame, due to its stiffness, would transfer more vibration through the front end of the bike.


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## scottma (May 18, 2012)

I had a 2011 SL2 Roubaix 8R and now a 2013 SL4 Expert 10R. If you are concerned about vibration, tire choice and inflation pressure, bar tape, gloves will make more of a difference.


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## LVbob (Mar 24, 2014)

scottma said:


> I had a 2011 SL2 Roubaix 8R and now a 2013 SL4 Expert 10R. If you are concerned about vibration, tire choice and inflation pressure, bar tape, gloves will make more of a difference.


Okay, got it.

Thanks!


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## roadworthy (Nov 11, 2011)

Let economics drive your decision. If you can comfortably afford the 10r bike and say you ride in groups and want the most performance, get it. You will have no regrets and the bike will have better resale if you decide to move on to another. I have the 10r carbon with SL3 Roubaix and the bike soaks up all the bumps and I run my tire pressures up relatively high and ride on all kinds of surfaces. Its the angles of the Roubaix that give it is ride compliancy. Sometimes you can have your cake and eat it too and that applies to the 10r Roubaix...a remarkable bike. 
Be sure to post if you pick it up.
I will say further because of a neck that complains if I ride over 30 miles, I ride with a higher handlebar than pretty much anybody I ride with and I like to ride with fast guys. The bike never holds me back and have no trouble keeping up with pretty much anybody including yesterday when all guys in the group ride with substantial drop. The higher handlebar of a Roubaix promotes more use of the drops which is what I prefer. I would say the better riders I ride with rarely use the drops because their bars are positioned too low for their flexibility.


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## LVbob (Mar 24, 2014)

roadworthy said:


> Let economics drive your decision. If you can comfortably afford the 10r bike and say you ride in groups and want the most performance, get it. You will have no regrets and the bike will have better resale if you decide to move on to another. I have the 10r carbon with SL3 Roubaix and the bike soaks up all the bumps and I run my tire pressures up relatively high and ride on all kinds of surfaces. Its the angles of the Roubaix that give it is ride compliancy. Sometimes you can have your cake and eat it too and that applies to the 10r Roubaix...a remarkable bike.
> Be sure to post if you pick it up.
> I will say further because of a neck that complains if I ride over 30 miles, I ride with a higher handlebar than pretty much anybody I ride with and I like to ride with fast guys. The bike never holds me back and have no trouble keeping up with pretty much anybody including yesterday when all guys in the group ride with substantial drop. The higher handlebar of a Roubaix promotes more use of the drops which is what I prefer. I would say the better riders I ride with rarely use the drops because their bars are positioned too low for their flexibility.


Thanks for the very helpful response.

As I mentioned above, I am just a beginner (I'm soon 61 and haven't ridden a bike since before I started driving) so either bike is really overkill for me today. I'll never be able to test the limits of either of these bikes but I won't be a beginner forever and I am likely to appreciate some of the other nuances of the Expert as my skills and capabilities improve. And, for me, I just prefer the color scheme of the Expert and the looks of the Ultegra bits.

I have four fused vertebrae from C5 to T1 and a couple of other cervical discs which are very degrades (hence my concern about vibration). Since you have some neck issues, I am sure you can understand my comfort concerns.


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## roadworthy (Nov 11, 2011)

LVbob said:


> Thanks for the very helpful response.
> 
> As I mentioned above, I am just a beginner (I'm soon 61 and haven't ridden a bike since before I started driving) so either bike is really overkill for me today. I'll never be able to test the limits of either of these bikes but I won't be a beginner forever and I am likely to appreciate some of the other nuances of the Expert as my skills and capabilities improve. And, for me, I just prefer the color scheme of the Expert and the looks of the Ultegra bits.
> 
> I have four fused vertebrae from C5 to T1 and a couple of other cervical discs which are very degrades (hence my concern about vibration). Since you have some neck issues, I am sure you can understand my comfort concerns.


I will tell you why a Roubaix is so popular other than being light, fast and comfortable.  The no. one source of pain when riding a road bike is the neck. This is because the head weighs about the same as a bowling ball and in a more horizontal back position your neck muscles are holding this weight up in extension for hours in a row on long rides. Further road disturbances telegraphed through the handlebar apply pressure up the arms into the base of the neck and traps. So the 20mm longer head tube of a Roubaix size to size compared to more conventionally square geometry road bikes makes a big difference.

There is a balance between riding with horizontal back position and bolt upright...the latter pile drives the spine which is no good either. A more horizontal back for some is more comfortable provided they have the hip and lumbar flexibility to achieve it. In my case skeletally I don't have any major issues other than an aging spine which isn't as flexible as it once was. Guys like me love the Roubaix because it has the relative speed of typical racing bike. I also prefer the more steady handling whereas some will prefer the more responsive aka twitchy handling of a Tarmac resulting from upright front fork and rear seat stays.
If economics aren't a major concern, get the 10r and don't look back. The bike will be very comfortable. If you want more comfort, run 28c tires which will fit on the bike and sag your tire pressures to the 80 psi range or so...depending on your weight. Check your tire pressures every ride or every other ride.
You will love the bike and the 11 speed Ultegra is outstanding...and I am a Campy guy.


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## Dunbar (Aug 8, 2010)

LVbob said:


> Yeah, I can pretty much quote the specs for both bikes. I realize the CG-R seatpost will take care of the back end, but my concern is if the 10r frame, due to its stiffness, would transfer more vibration through the front end of the bike.


You should definitely get the CG-R seat post with your back injury and possibly a 28mm rear tire (the new GP4000S II is available in that size.) For the front end I'd run a 25mm tire at a sensible tire pressure. You can also have gel pads installed under the bar tape to help somewhat in addition to padded gloves. That said, I do not find the front of the the 10r SL4 to be overly stiff.

As far as 10r vs. 8r I really doubt there's much difference in stiffness. Supposedly there's a ~300g difference in weight if that matters to you. The obvious thing to do would be to test ride both bikes and see if you can feel a difference. Just make sure the tire pressure is equalized on both bikes. I've ridden my 10r SL4 with and without the CG-R post and I can tell you the CG-R post makes a pretty significant difference in ride quality.


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## LVbob (Mar 24, 2014)

Thanks, roadworthy and Dunbar.

I'm not concerned about the weight of the bike at all; I simply prefer the Expert because of aesthetics. And I figured I would add the CG-R seat post even if I got the Elite.

Regarding tire pressure, I'm 6'1" and 170 to 175 pounds. Any recommendations with the stock tires?

@Dunbar - Unfortunately, the LBS does not have an Expert in my size to try. Mine will be ordered if that's what I choose and should be ready in a week.


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## roadworthy (Nov 11, 2011)

LVbob said:


> Thanks, roadworthy and Dunbar.
> 
> I'm not concerned about the weight of the bike at all; I simply prefer the Expert because of aesthetics. And I figured I would add the CG-R seat post even if I got the Elite.
> 
> ...


We are the same height. You btw are at a good weight for your height for cycling.
Because you aren't too heavy, you are a good candidate to run around 100 psi or so without major concern about pinch flats which occur if running the tires too soft...because the tire flexes more sometimes pinching the tube. As to tire width, believe you will be surprised by the ride quality of the stock tires which maybe 25c. FWIW I am 180 lbs and ride 23c tires with about 110 psi and the ride on my Roubaix is superb.
I will tell you with you back/neck vertebrate issues, your position and posture on the bike is key. A good investment for a newbie is a have your bike shop...or find out who the best bike fitter is in your area. I suggest a size 58...what I ride for your height.
Just get the Expert and enjoy it. Aesthetics do matter at the end of the day...one of the reasons for example I got the Pro model Roubaix back in 2012...that and I wanted to build the bike with exactly the parts I like. For this year, buying a full bike off the shelf is a good option because both Shimano and Sram have improved their groupsets.
I also suggest a carbon handlebar at some point. FSA makes some nice models if interested...as do others.


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## LVbob (Mar 24, 2014)

roadworthy said:


> I will tell you with you back/neck vertebrate issues, your position and posture on the bike is key. A good investment for a newbie is a have your bike shop...or find out who the best bike fitter is in your area. I suggest a size 58...what I ride for your height.


Yeah, every LBS where I have test rode (as many as I could find in my area) has put me on a 58. I am thinking that I will do a BG fit after I have spent some time on the bike and developed some sense for what I like and don't like about it. For instance, because I am new, I won't be starting off clipless but plan to make that transition as soon as I have developed some confidence in my bike handling skills.



> I also suggest a carbon handlebar at some point. FSA makes some nice models if interested...as do others.


Sounds like something I might look into. I also did some research into the gel pads that Dunbar mentioned and think that might be a possibility. The bike shop is going to love me since my plan is to start with just basic maintenance stuff and gragually acquire the knowledge to tackle more challenging endeavors.


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## roadworthy (Nov 11, 2011)

LVbob said:


> Yeah, every LBS where I have test rode (as many as I could find in my area) has put me on a 58. I am thinking that I will do a BG fit after I have spent some time on the bike and developed some sense for what I like and don't like about it. For instance, because I am new, I won't be starting off clipless but plan to make that transition as soon as I have developed some confidence in my bike handling skills.
> 
> 
> Sounds like something I might look into. I also did some research into the gel pads that Dunbar mentioned and think that might be a possibility. The bike shop is going to love me since my plan is to start with just basic maintenance stuff and gragually acquire the knowledge to tackle more challenging endeavors.


My personal view is you wont need any gel pads or even gloves if you get your set up correct. Key is...and again where the Roubaix geometry helps is...getting the right ratio of saddle to handlebar pressure. A higher handlebar will put more weight on the saddle and less on the hands which is key to helping your back and taking pressure off the hands which goes up the arms and into your neck. So weight distribution on the bike is a veritable balance and critical to comfort. Posture is key as well. With slumped posture your neck and lumbar will be at great risk to fatigue and pain.
The cockpit I endorse with 40 years of experimentation is...a relatively stretched out position with high handlebar and a fair amount of saddle setback. This reduces neck flexion angle and elongates the spine for less compression and pain. Further it is powerful because it rotates the hips forward to enlist your glutes. Each of us are different however and you will have to find what works best for you. If you find yourself not using the drops say 30% of the time as an alternative position that you can stay in comfortably, your fit is less than ideal.
It takes a while to not only develop stamina to ride fast for long distances but also to tune your riding position. Its no different than getting good at anything. Enjoy the journey.


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## LVbob (Mar 24, 2014)

roadworthy said:


> My personal view is you wont need any gel pads or even gloves if you get your set up correct. Key is...and again where the Roubaix geometry helps is...getting the right ratio of saddle to handlebar pressure. A higher handlebar will put more weight on the saddle and less on the hands which is key to helping your back and taking pressure off the hands which goes up the arms and into your neck. So weight distribution on the bike is a veritable balance and critical to comfort. Posture is key as well. With slumped posture your neck and lumbar will be at great risk to fatigue and pain.
> The cockpit I endorse with 40 years of experimentation is...a relatively stretched out position with high handlebar and a fair amount of saddle setback. This reduces neck flexion angle and elongates the spine for less compression and pain. Further it is powerful because it rotates the hips forward to enlist your glutes. Each of us are different however and you will have to find what works best for you. If you find yourself not using the drops say 30% of the time as an alternative position that you can stay in comfortably, your fit is less than ideal.
> It takes a while to not only develop stamina to ride fast for long distances but also to tune your riding position. Its no different than getting good at anything. Enjoy the journey.


Thanks.

I noticed while test riding bikes that some had me too upright and that I was wasn't liking the position I was in. I later checked the geometry and found that the bikes that I liked had longer top tubes (in the case of the top two bikes the difference in the TT+stem length was 1mm). I think the Roubaix is probably the best fit for me although the other bike might have been a tad smoother in the front end. At any rate, the decision is really based on the overall perception of the bike plus my comfort with the LBS. I am pretty sure I am making the right choice when all factors are figured in.


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## roadworthy (Nov 11, 2011)

LVbob said:


> Thanks.
> 
> I noticed while test riding bikes that some had me too upright and that I was wasn't liking the position I was in. I later checked the geometry and found that the bikes that I liked had longer top tubes (in the case of the top two bikes the difference in the TT+stem length was 1mm). I think the Roubaix is probably the best fit for me although the other bike might have been a tad smoother in the front end. At any rate, the decision is really based on the overall perception of the bike plus my comfort with the LBS. I am pretty sure I am making the right choice when all factors are figured in.


To put a finer point on your question, the fractional modulus of elasticity difference between 8 and 10R is vastly trumped by the geometry of the bike. Stated slightly different, if you ride 5 different brand road bikes at your bike shop, the bike that fits the best will be the most comfortable. Fit is king when it comes to comfort. What makes the Roubaix so comfortable is generally the position it places the 'average' road bike rider in. A super fit 20 or 30 year old that can palm the floor lock kneed will do fine on a Tarmac with stem slammed to the head tube. Not so much for the rest of us. Btw, there is some irony in the fact that I can stay with most 20 somethings on my Roubaix and even drop a few.


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## dkilburn (Aug 1, 2009)

Good Morning
I'm sure dropping a few make you feel reel good RoadWorthy, 

As for the Roubaix, get the highest level you can afford.
I started with a 2007 Expert and a triple. Then I moved on to others.
Maybe it was in my mind but, I thought I could tell the difference between the
S Works Roubaix 2010 model, and 2011 one. The 2014 is really good!
I have not ridden other others in some time.
I would suggest that you chat with the bike shop about fitting.
Stems sizes and saddle my help you ridding.
See what they have help you with.
Some shops are very, very good to make it happen for you.

.

.


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## roadworthy (Nov 11, 2011)

dkilburn said:


> Good Morning
> *I'm sure dropping a few make you feel reel good RoadWorthy,*
> 
> As for the Roubaix, get the highest level you can afford.
> ...


In bold...I just turned 60 and have ridden with all levels from CAT 1 on down for 30 years. The dropping comment thing is a foot note. A couple of points. I can't think of another activity or sport except maybe swimming...I grew up competitive swimming and still try to swim every day...where age is more incidental if you stay active into old age than cycling. That is the point. A further point I have tried to make is the Roubaix will not slow you down against any bike out there...and you don't have to ride with a low handlebar like the top riders in the world to be fast. This is what I have learned from years of cycling with many clubs and all different levels of riders. On topic, this is what makes the Roubaix such a great bike for the recreational rider. Also even with handlebar 1" above the saddle, you can still achieve a flat back if that is your wish provided you have the lumbar and hamstring flexibility. Handlebar height does not correlate precisely to aerodynamics.


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## brianb21 (Jul 21, 2010)

I love my Roubaix what an amazing bike. Roadworthy makes some great points. I think the OP is going to be thrilled with the new bike!


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## Mckdaddy (Feb 8, 2014)

I've had my Roub Expert for 6 weeks now. Excellent bike. I really like its handling, agility, and most of all its relaxed geo. I'm very pleased and do not regret the purchase, though any of my finalists would probably have been solid for me.


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## LVbob (Mar 24, 2014)

Mckdaddy said:


> I've had my Roub Expert for 6 weeks now. Excellent bike. I really like its handling, agility, and most of all its relaxed geo. I'm very pleased and do not regret the purchase, though any of my finalists would probably have been solid for me.


I narrowed it down to two and would be happy with either but I felt more confident with the Specialized dealer.


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## Mckdaddy (Feb 8, 2014)

LVbob said:


> I narrowed it down to two and would be happy with either but I felt more confident with the Specialized dealer.


Exact same a me for me, bob. I had a near tie b/t the Spesh Expert and the a Trek Domane. I loved both and had trouble differentiating. The Expert had a razor-thin lead, but I kept vacillating. Finally, someone on here asked me which dealer I liked better. All of a sudden it became clear to me b/c the Spesh dealer blew away the Trek dealer in every aspect imaginable...just fantastic service and people -- the kind of place where you just want to hangout and talk biking.


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## LVbob (Mar 24, 2014)

Mckdaddy said:


> Exact same a me for me, bob. I had a near tie b/t the Spesh Expert and the a Trek Domane. I loved both and had trouble differentiating. The Expert had a razor-thin lead, but I kept vacillating. Finally, someone on here asked me which dealer I liked better. All of a sudden it became clear to me b/c the Spesh dealer blew away the Trek dealer in every aspect imaginable...just fantastic service and people -- the kind of place where you just want to hangout and talk biking.


I was choosing between a Cannondale Synapse Carbon 3 and the Roubaix Expert. I'd give a very slight edge to the Synapse. But the Cannondale dealer was just like a bike emporium. The people working there aren't particularly friendly nor are the customers. The Specialized dealer had a whole different vibe: friendly employees, friendly customers who would ask if the bike I was test riding was mine and commenting how nice it looked and the only shop I visited with posted service rates. Professional and friendly - I like that.


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## Typetwelve (Jul 1, 2012)

I must be too mortal...my 8r Tarmac is plenty stiff...so stiff in fact that I added a CG-R seatpost to save my bottom from the beatings crappy roads would provide...


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## roadworthy (Nov 11, 2011)

Typetwelve said:


> I must be too mortal...my 8r Tarmac is plenty stiff...so stiff in fact that I added a CG-R seatpost to save my bottom from the beatings crappy roads would provide...


Just want to share something that the biking public generally doesn't grasp. The modulus of elasticity of the carbon used doesn't have to precisely correlate to the stiffness of the frame. Therefor a 8R carbon frame isn't necessarily any more flexible than a 10R carbon frame. A 8R frame is heavier and has thicker wall section because it is weaker. Therefore there is more carbon in the frame which increases its stiffness.

I will give an analog. Many that ride an Aluminum bike remark that they are stiffer riding than any other bike out there. This is a generalization and some bikes for example aren't bone jarring stiff like the Secteur or even the CAAD 10...but in general Aluminum bikes have this well deserved reputation. But the physics of Aluminum is...it is the most flexible material available for a road bike...more so than carbon, any grade of steel and Ti. So why are Aluminum bikes so stiff? Because it takes a lot of Aluminum to offset its relatively low yield strength to make an Aluminum bike survive the rigors of riding. By adding a lot of Al say relative to the volume of carbon it takes to make a frame...carbon being much stronger...this adds a lot of section modulus which translates to greater stiffness.

Hope that helps.


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## thumper8888 (Apr 7, 2009)

Another way to look at it is that because the lower grade of carbon is less stuff, it takes more, so wall thickness goes up, weight goes up, and cost goes down a little as high-mod. carbon is more expensive.
I suspect that the top end models might be a bit stiffer, but that basically youre trading off less cost for a bit more weight, but probably also are getting a bit more impact resistance from the thicker laminate.


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## Typetwelve (Jul 1, 2012)

roadworthy said:


> Just want to share something that the biking public generally doesn't grasp. The modulus of elasticity of the carbon used doesn't have to precisely correlate to the stiffness of the frame. Therefor a 8R carbon frame isn't necessarily any more flexible than a 10R carbon frame. A 8R frame is heavier and has thicker wall section because it is weaker. Therefore there is more carbon in the frame which increases its stiffness.
> 
> I will give an analog. Many that ride an Aluminum bike remark that they are stiffer riding than any other bike out there. This is a generalization and some bikes for example aren't bone jarring stiff like the Secteur or even the CAAD 10...but in general Aluminum bikes have this well deserved reputation. But the physics of Aluminum is...it is the most flexible material available for a road bike...more so than carbon, any grade of steel and Ti. So why are Aluminum bikes so stiff? Because it takes a lot of Aluminum to offset its relatively low yield strength to make an Aluminum bike survive the rigors of riding. By adding a lot of Al say relative to the volume of carbon it takes to make a frame...carbon being much stronger...this adds a lot of section modulus which translates to greater stiffness.
> 
> Hope that helps.


Thanks for the info...

I have't done much reading on it really...perhaps when I get some more free time I will (as I find this kind of stuff interesting).

I am also a firm believer that build geometry has a good amount to do with it as well. I spent a season on a 7r SL2 Roubaix and it was very "flexy" compared to my SL2 Tarmac. It made for a very different feel. Like you said, I don't attribute this to the "7r vs 8r"...I figure it is a testament to the design of the bike and how it was made to perform.


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## roadworthy (Nov 11, 2011)

Typetwelve said:


> Thanks for the info...
> 
> I have't done much reading on it really...perhaps when I get some more free time I will (as I find this kind of stuff interesting).
> 
> I am also a firm believer that build geometry has a good amount to do with it as well. I spent a season on a 7r SL2 Roubaix and it was very "flexy" compared to my SL2 Tarmac. It made for a very different feel. Like you said, I don't attribute this to the "7r vs 8r"...I figure it is a testament to the design of the bike and how it was made to perform.


When Specialized transitioned from the SL2 Roubaix to SL3, they reinvented the bike...a remarkable departure. As you say, the frame and lay up is what separates the bikes much more than the carbon used. It is hard to put a ratio on the relative contribution of material properties relative to frame geometry. It is what mechanical engineering is largely about...the relationship between these two disciplines. Specialized really nailed the SL3 Roubaix...a remarkable bike I enjoy every day. The SL4 is even stiffer...again mostly a function of lay up and geometry...Specialized changed every frame tube for the new SL4 which astounded me because I believe the SL3 to be so good.


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## Typetwelve (Jul 1, 2012)

roadworthy said:


> When Specialized transitioned from the SL2 Roubaix to SL3, they reinvented the bike...a remarkable departure. As you say, the frame and lay up is what separates the bikes much more than the carbon used. It is hard to put a ratio on the relative contribution of material properties relative to frame geometry. It is what mechanical engineering is largely about...the relationship between these two disciplines. Specialized really nailed the SL3 Roubaix...a remarkable bike I enjoy every day. The SL4 is even stiffer...again mostly a function of lay up and geometry...Specialized changed every frame tube for the new SL4 which astounded me because I believe the SL3 to be so good.


I'm already eyeballing a SL4 Roubaix. Possibly in the next few years I'll look into getting one. They are really nice bikes, I've yet to read a single bad thing about them.


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## LVbob (Mar 24, 2014)

I think I finally got the answer to my question about difference in vibration between 8r and 10r frames:


> The S-Works Roubaix SL4 is a far cry from the original Roubaix. Honestly, all they really share is geometry. My sense is that the S-Works SL4 conveys a similar amount of vibration to the rider as the original Roubaix, though I have to grant I haven’t been able to go back and ride one of the original bikes to verify that assertion. But I’m willing to put that out there because *I know that as frames see weight reductions thanks to better compaction, using superior fibers and cutting the amount of material used, those advancements cause more vibration to move through the frame.* In short, the very features that cause the Roubaix to be a better bike today are the wrinkles that make shielding a rider from vibration ever more difficult. Just treading water in this game is a win.


Specialized S-Works Roubaix SL4, Part II | RKP

Thanks to member Rashadabd for the link.


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## LVbob (Mar 24, 2014)

Well, it's done. I went and ordered my bike - Roubaix SL4 Expert in silver/red/charcoal. I should get it by next Wednesday which just happens to be my birthday (not that I'm counting those anymore).


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## Rashadabd (Sep 17, 2011)

No problem my man. Glad I could be of help. Excited to see your ride.


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## Mckdaddy (Feb 8, 2014)

Congrats Bob.


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## dkilburn (Aug 1, 2009)

Good deal!
What a great birthday is coming!
You will enjoy the ride.


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## LVbob (Mar 24, 2014)

Yeah, I can hardly wait to ride her.


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## brianb21 (Jul 21, 2010)

Awesome congrats and enjoy the new bike!


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## LVbob (Mar 24, 2014)

Thanks, guys. I feel like a kid waiting for Christmas even though I know what Santa is going to bring.


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## dkilburn (Aug 1, 2009)

WAITING FOR SANTA IS ALWAYS GOOD!
Forget your age, Santa is not just for kids!


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## Dunbar (Aug 8, 2010)

I have the same frame/color which I got as a warranty replacement for my Roubaix SL2. It's very stiff and responsive with the CG-R seat post giving just enough compliance to make the ride manageable. I find the frame to be too stiff with just a standard carbon seat post installed (which I tried for the first 3 weeks after getting the frame.) As long as you can get the seat far enough forward on the CG-R post I think you'll really enjoy the ride of this bike.


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## LVbob (Mar 24, 2014)

Dunbar said:


> I have the same frame/color which I got as a warranty replacement for my Roubaix SL2. It's very stiff and responsive with the CG-R seat post giving just enough compliance to make the ride manageable. I find the frame to be too stiff with just a standard carbon seat post installed (which I tried for the first 3 weeks after getting the frame.) As long as you can get the seat far enough forward on the CG-R post I think you'll really enjoy the ride of this bike.


Nice bike! :thumbsup:

I was wondering about potential fitting problems. It seems like the CG-R has quite a lot of setback. I wasn't able to ride an Expert so I hope that I fall within the proper fore/aft seat range.


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## LVbob (Mar 24, 2014)

@Dunbar

What wheels do you have on your bike? I'm already thinking about changing out the stock wheels.


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## spdntrxi (Jul 25, 2013)

LVbob said:


> @Dunbar
> 
> What wheels do you have on your bike? I'm already thinking about changing out the stock wheels.


better work with the LBS on that quick like... because on the used/take off market you are looking at roughly $300 if you are lucky. Fulcrum S4's right?


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## LVbob (Mar 24, 2014)

Yeah, Fulcrum S4s. I figure I'll ride them for a while since I really have nothing to compare them to (just getting into biking) and then keep them as a backup when I get some better wheels.


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## Dunbar (Aug 8, 2010)

LVbob said:


> What wheels do you have on your bike? I'm already thinking about changing out the stock wheels.


I got these wheels with a Powertap for Christmas. Expensive with the power meter but I'm loving training with power.

HOOPs Wheels - HOOPs 2328 Elite Kinlin 279 Wheelset


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## LVbob (Mar 24, 2014)

Dunbar said:


> I got these wheels with a Powertap for Christmas. Expensive with the power meter but I'm loving training with power.
> 
> HOOPs Wheels - HOOPs 2328 Elite Kinlin 279 Wheelset


Thanks, Dunbar.

Those seem like some pretty nice wheels at a reasonable cost compared to some others that I have checked out.

I still think about how nice the Synapse in black/grey would look with some deep-rim carbon clinchers on it but then I keep reminding myself what a great bike I got in the Roubaix and how much more I liked the shop.


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## Dunbar (Aug 8, 2010)

LVbob said:


> I still think about how nice the Synapse in black/grey would look with some deep-rim carbon clinchers on it but then I keep reminding myself what a great bike I got in the Roubaix and how much more I liked the shop.


I haven't ridden the Synapse but I have tried a Super Six when I wanted to demo something with 6800 Ultegra on it. I loved my matte black Roubaix SL2 but I personally think the whole flat black look is (slowly) going out of style.

I've never really been all that tempted to drop $1500-2000 on a set of carbon clinchers. Sure, if somebody gave me a set I'd happily ride them. I do think they look but when you really look at the aerodynamic savings it just doesn't amount to a whole until you're doing 30+ mph.


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## spdntrxi (Jul 25, 2013)

Dunbar said:


> I haven't ridden the Synapse but I have tried a Super Six when I wanted to demo something with 6800 Ultegra on it. I loved my matte black Roubaix SL2 but I personally think the whole flat black look is (slowly) going out of style.
> 
> I've never really been all that tempted to drop $1500-2000 on a set of carbon clinchers. Sure, if somebody gave me a set I'd happily ride them. I do think they look but when you really look at the aerodynamic savings it just doesn't amount to a whole until you're doing 30+ mph.


30+mph you are greatly mis-informed on that one.


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## Dunbar (Aug 8, 2010)

spdntrxi said:


> 30+mph you are greatly mis-informed on that one.


Am I?


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## LVbob (Mar 24, 2014)

Dunbar said:


> I haven't ridden the Synapse but I have tried a Super Six when I wanted to demo something with 6800 Ultegra on it. I loved my matte black Roubaix SL2 but I personally think the whole flat black look is (slowly) going out of style.
> 
> I've never really been all that tempted to drop $1500-2000 on a set of carbon clinchers. Sure, if somebody gave me a set I'd happily ride them. I do think they look but when you really look at the aerodynamic savings it just doesn't amount to a whole until you're doing 30+ mph.


I think you're right that the stealth look may be played out but the carbon clinchers on the black/grey Synapse would look mighty stealthy.

Can't you tell that I make many (most?) of these decisions based on superficial stuff? But I do like your wheels and the price is really affordable.


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## spdntrxi (Jul 25, 2013)

Dunbar said:


> Am I?


yes.. you obviously don't need to be going 30 to reap benes


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## Dunbar (Aug 8, 2010)

spdntrxi said:


> yes.. you obviously don't need to be going 30 to reap benes


All I said was that, in my opinion, the savings aren't all that significant until you get to 30mph and above. That FSW23 at the top of the graph is the old Velocity A23 version. I'm guessing that compared to a deeper aluminum wheel like the Pacenti SL23 or Kinlin XC-279 the difference is ~5-6w at 25mph compared to a Zipp 404 FC. I have no data to back that up so that's purely conjecture.

Note though even at 30mph a ~$2k set of Zipp 404's only saves you 13 watts compared to the shallow un-aerodynamic aluminum wheels. Anyone who cares about aerodynamics does not buy a shallow set of aluminum wheels.


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