# TT bikes allowed in road race. Unusual?



## BigBadConrad (Aug 30, 2010)

I am going to do my 1st road race in October. It's the 70-mile Tour de Scottsdale, in Arizona. My goal is to finish top 3rd in my age group (45-49). I ride a decent road bike that's a few years old but plenty fast for my current ability.

I always thought that TT bikes were not allowed in road races and that even most club rides didn't allow them, mainly for safety reasons since they are harder bikes to handle than road bikes. I was hoping they weren't allowed in this race because I know how fast they are from seeing them pass me on my training rides. I was surprised to ask one of the race organizers and get this response:

_Our governing principle for the Tour is that cyclists can ride any type of bike as long as they can ride it safely in large groups. Mountain bikes, recumbents and handbikes are all acceptable types of bikes. Tri bikes make seldom appearances in the Tour and I can’t remember ever seeing a TT bike, however there may be a handful. 

Aerobars are allowed in the Tour and we do see a fair amount of bikes sporting them._

Is this unusual for a road race? Well, I hope there are more MTBs and recumbents than TT bikes because I think I can finish ahead of those!

Thanks,
BBC


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## godot (Feb 3, 2004)

Is it a race or a tour (charity ride)?

Usually TT bikes are not allowed in sanctioned races.
Usually anything goes on charity rides.


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## spade2you (May 12, 2009)

godot said:


> Is it a race or a tour (charity ride)?
> 
> Usually TT bikes are not allowed in sanctioned races.
> Usually anything goes on charity rides.


Provided I googled the right Tour of Scottsdale, it looked more like a charity ride than an actual race. I see no mention of the various categories of cycling, so I'm inclined to think it's not USAC.


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## godot (Feb 3, 2004)

spade2you said:


> Provided I googled the right Tour of Scottsdale, it looked more like a charity ride than an actual race. I see no mention of the various categories of cycling, so I'm inclined to think it's not USAC.


Thank you. Perhaps I should work on my read skills?

To the OP - the problem is easily avoided, if you're in a paceline or group with someone on a TT bike, get out of there, sit up let them go up the road


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## brianmcg (Oct 12, 2002)

What they said. A "tour" is not a race. There may be all pockets of people riding together but its no peleton going 30mph.


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## zender (Jun 20, 2009)

Is the race sanctioned by any bike organization (UCI?). In a large mass start type race, a TT setup could be somewhat dangerous in the wrong hands.

If it's a road race with at least a half dozen folks in your category, a TT frame, areo helmet, skinsuit, disk wheel etc will not be an advantage. The race will be won or lost on whether you can stay with the surges until the final sprint. If there are any substantial climbs (Scottsdale, not sure?), it may be won or lost there. TT bike may even be a disadvantage if there is a lot of climbing.

It's hard to say what the guys passing you on TT bikes on your regular rides are doing. They could be well above threshold wattage doing an interval. They could be cat1/pro and would pass you on a rusty schwinn with a banana seat. Don't let the bike get into your head and enjoy your race!


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## spade2you (May 12, 2009)

godot said:


> To the OP - the problem is easily avoided, if you're in a paceline or group with someone on a TT bike, get out of there, sit up let them go up the road


For the most part, that's fairly accurate. I've ridden with a few guys on TT bikes who kinda annoyed me on group rides, mostly because it was annoying when they were on the front. 

I'd like to think I spend enough time on the TT bike that I can handle myself in a pack if I had to, but I'd have to hide in the slipstream in a crosswind. Other than TTT scenarios, I haven't used my TT bike outside of solo rides. I'd probably need to make some modifications for my TT bike to handle 70 miles. After a good 40k, I've had enough for a while.


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## wim (Feb 28, 2005)

Can't be a USAC sanctioned road race if they allow aerobars, so it's a mass ride marketed as a competitive event. 

After a few minutes googling the event, turns out it's a 70-mile event called "citizen's race" by the organizers and featuring an $85 individual entry fee, chip timing for every rider, food, entertainment and a medal for every finisher. If all the expected 2,000 riders start at the same time, the first few minutes should be fun to watch.


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## MR_GRUMPY (Aug 21, 2002)

"it's a 70-mile event called a citizen's race "

Back before I started doing "real" races, two towns close to me held open "citizen's" races. Boy were they crash fests. You'd have complete noobs starting next to sandbagging cat 3's. The first few miles the pace was close to 30, to drop the bike lice. In every turn, a few riders would crash. There would be incredibly fit recreational riders who could keep up, but would do really stupid things in the turns. They would ususlly take out 3 or 4 riders while crashing. You'd see guys trying to advance their position on the inside of a turn. Crazy sh!t like that. Back then, the "races" were only $20, and not an insane $85.
To the OP.........Be afraid......very afraid...........Go do a cat 5 race...or a metric century.

PS...These were 300 rider mass start races.


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## godot (Feb 3, 2004)

spade2you said:


> For the most part, that's fairly accurate. I've ridden with a few guys on TT bikes who kinda annoyed me on group rides, mostly because it was annoying when they were on the front.
> 
> I'd like to think I spend enough time on the TT bike that I can handle myself in a pack if I had to, but I'd have to hide in the slipstream in a crosswind. Other than TTT scenarios, I haven't used my TT bike outside of solo rides. I'd probably need to make some modifications for my TT bike to handle 70 miles. After a good 40k, I've had enough for a while.


I'm just paranoid. Early in my cycling career (using the tern loosely) I narrowly avoided a huge pile-up caused by a guy deciding to drop into aero bars at the end of a hard group ride.

There's a guy on my current ride that is more stable, steady and consistent on his TT bike than I will ever be on a road bike (former low level pro road racer). I just wouldn't have high hopes on an open entry ride.


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## wim (Feb 28, 2005)

MR_GRUMPY said:


> To the OP.........Be afraid......very afraid...........Go do a cat 5 race...or a metric century.


I was going to say that very thing, but decided against it. I'm too much of a curmudgeon as it is, and ride a Surly to boot. Remember this thing below? That "Skid Lid" (yes, it's the actual brand name!) will forever be linked in my mind to the only "citizen's race" I had the misfortune to attend.


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## AC911 (Apr 30, 2011)

There is also a 30 mile "race" and a criterium part of the same event. So beginners can do the 30 miler. I doubt guys on TT bikes will be an issue if you are kind of rider that is targeting top 3 in your category (as you will drop most riders pretty quickly). Having said that, most likely there will be crashes considering 2,000 riders...

Btw, I'll be there too - not on a TT bike


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## Creakyknees (Sep 21, 2003)

From what I understand of the Tour de Tucson, there are sandbagging pro-1-2 types and yes they do go 30 mph at the front. 

"Rally racing" is pretty common but it is not USAC/UCI rules. 

This is why I consider rally racing to be the true American style of racing. No blue shirts. No stinking "licenses" or "categories"... the category is: everybody with $85.

God Bless America.

p.s. I suspect the Tour of Scottsdale will be similar.


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## Ventruck (Mar 9, 2009)

Creakyknees said:


> From what I understand of the Tour de Tucson, there are sandbagging pro-1-2 types and yes they do go 30 mph at the front.


Hell even at the Tour De Cure I found myself at a 30mi/h paceline. Except those weren't pro-1-2's. Most of them were wiped at the first hill ~15mi from the start.

I went hard on my charity ride. Couldn't pass up the convenience of rest stops at key points with free food/drink, and somewhat more open roads...not to mention the entry fee.


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## spade2you (May 12, 2009)

godot said:


> I'm just paranoid. Early in my cycling career (using the tern loosely) I narrowly avoided a huge pile-up caused by a guy deciding to drop into aero bars at the end of a hard group ride.
> 
> There's a guy on my current ride that is more stable, steady and consistent on his TT bike than I will ever be on a road bike (former low level pro road racer). I just wouldn't have high hopes on an open entry ride.


Trust your instincts unless otherwise proven. I can think of a few people who would be fine on a group ride on a TT bike, but a lot have proven to be a tad sketchy.


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## BigBadConrad (Aug 30, 2010)

Thanks for the input. Yes, it's a 1500-2000 rider mass-start "Citizen's race", only giving awards for the top three men and women, although there is a breakdown of finishing times by age group. Probably not the best 'first race' to do, but it's my town's local race and I've known about it for years and in that sense it seems like a good first step. I found the 2009 results and there were 158 men 45-49 that 'finished' under the 7-hour time limit. While I've ridden the course solo last month to practice, I have no idea how my time will translate to a race-day time, with the mass-chaos, drafting and lack of traffic signals to factor in. I'll need about a 3:30 finish to be top third, which I think is an ambitious but realistic goal for me. I was hoping there were no TT bikes / aero bars allowed, but not the case. Sounds like there will be some very fast times and also more wrecks with those bikes out there. Might have to borrow some body armor from my DH MTB buds!


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## den bakker (Nov 13, 2004)

BigBadConrad said:


> Thanks for the input. Yes, it's a 1500-2000 rider mass-start "Citizen's race", only giving awards for the top three men and women, although there is a breakdown of finishing times by age group. Probably not the best 'first race' to do, but it's my town's local race and I've known about it for years and in that sense it seems like a good first step. I found the 2009 results and there were 158 men 45-49 that 'finished' under the 7-hour time limit. While I've ridden the course solo last month to practice, I have no idea how my time will translate to a race-day time, with the mass-chaos, drafting and lack of traffic signals to factor in. I'll need about a 3:30 finish to be top third, which I think is an ambitious but realistic goal for me. I was hoping there were no TT bikes / aero bars allowed, but not the case. Sounds like there will be some very fast times and also more wrecks with those bikes out there. Might have to borrow some body armor from my DH MTB buds!


there will probably be tandems as well. I've not done Snobsdale, only the two Tucson ones and I won't do them again, at least not in the pack. If there's any resemblance you want your health insurance to be up to date.....
It's likely the roads are only closed while the front group goes through and then some 10-15 minutes after that, at least that is the tour of tucson solution. They try to stop traffic for later riders but it is not a guarantee.


edit: the hills in the beginning might split things up a little bit making it a bit better. 
In tour of Tucson the split is done by two sand pits and tour of Tucson mountain there's nothing to split it up.


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## spade2you (May 12, 2009)

Sounds about as "safe" as my local corporate cycling challenge. There's a major section of bad road and somehow the start times of the short, medium, and long distance rides make them all finish at the same time, which means sharing the final crappy road with lots of n00bs and kids. Not good.


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## T K (Feb 11, 2009)

Sounds like a fuster cluck to me. I'd stick to actual USAC events. Cat 5s surely are not the safest but less people and the weaker riders will get popped of the back quikly.
If you are as strong as you think you are, you'll be up front where it is safer.


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## wim (Feb 28, 2005)

T K said:


> Sounds like a fuster cluck to me. I'd stick to actual USAC events.


Completely agree. At many USAC-sanctioned races, you can buy a one-day license. Why enter this bizarre and (IMO, unsafe) make-believe "race" when it's so easy to enter a race run under the classic rules of bicycle racing? Trust you instincts. They're good, as your question about TT bikes / TT bars shows.

/w


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## den bakker (Nov 13, 2004)

wim said:


> Completely agree. At many USAC-sanctioned races, you can buy a one-day license. Why enter this bizarre and (IMO, unsafe) make-believe "race" when it's so easy to enter a race run under the classic rules of bicycle racing? Trust you instincts. They're good, as your question about TT bikes / TT bars shows.
> 
> /w


one reason could be the season is pretty much over in az 
only states left as far as road races go and two mountain time trials. and possibly a few crits


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## Undecided (Apr 2, 2007)

Creakyknees said:


> From what I understand of the Tour de Tucson, there are sandbagging pro-1-2 types and yes they do go 30 mph at the front.


If it's not a race, how can anyone be "sandbagging"? They're just "riding," but faster.


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## zender (Jun 20, 2009)

I'm still trying to figure out the strat that would work on a TT bike in a field that big.

True, if you're off the front, and in an aero position, you can save some watts as you pull the field. But, if even one guy can get on your wheel, he's going to be in a much better position, no matter how aero you are. Chances are, there will be a group of guys back there. Once you're no longer off the front, the TT bike gains you nothing. So what then? Attack at some point late in the race and hope you can solo break and hold off the field from bridging the gap?


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## ericm979 (Jun 26, 2005)

A TT bike is still more aero when drafting, enabling him to draft behind faster riders than he would ordinarily be able to hang on to.


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## Creakyknees (Sep 21, 2003)

IME, the riders on TT bikes don't make the selection with the fastest group / leaders.


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## smoothsteel (Jul 5, 2009)

Wow. I'm just entering to splurge some hard-earned money and have a little fun. We're not all racers out there. And, den bakker, we don't really need the "snobsdale" label. Correct me if I'm wrong, but aren't there some high dollar neighborhoods in other parts of the country?


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## dmong2 (Sep 14, 2011)

Don't do the Tour de Scottsdale for your first group ride/race. Or at least wait a year so you can get some group ride experience and learn how to avoid dangerous in a huge charity ride. 

If you want to say local and try to prove your mettle, why not just do the weekly BOS ride?


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