# Shimano 105 or Sram Rival?



## chris212

I am upgrading my components from Tiagra. Can I get some advice as far as opinions on 105 or Sram? 1st year rider here and leaning towards Sram. Thanks all!


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## Tommy Walker

The new 105 is awesome and I believe priced lower than the Sram Rival


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## SystemShock

I'd go Rival. It's lighter than even the new 105 that's coming out soon, and the aftermarket pricing is about the same... and that's _after_ Shimano cut prices for the new 105.

That said, you might be able to get the old (model 5600) 105 for a steal once the new (5700) 105 comes out, but the ergonomics on the old 105 brifters frankly suck IMO, and it's also considerably heavier than Rival (like 300-350 grams more).

It's hard to beat SRAM in bang-for-the-buck these days.
.


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## Becky

IMO, you should attempt to test-ride them both and see if you have a preference. However, if it were me, I'd get the Rival.


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## AvantDale

I went from Tiagra to Force.

The main thing for me was the ergonomics of the SRAM lever. The higher pivot allowed me more leverage while braking in the hoods. The Tiagra would cramp my hands on long descents. The upshift on the SRAM needed a bit more effort...but the downshifts are lightning fast. 



You'll probably save about 400 grams with the Rival group over the 105.


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## cjd

I would ride what you have until SRAM Apex comes out. At that point, see what the pricing for Apex is at your favorite LBS and either switch to SRAM then or keep the Tiagra until it wears out. If you have to spend money now, buy some better wheels unless you've already replaced them. That's what I'd do, if it were my bike.


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## robdamanii

Rival. Without question.


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## jimmythekidd

Rival for sure. Lighter and cheaper usually as well. Sram all the way


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## Trek2.3

I have both an Ultegra SL set and a recent 105 set. I can tell no difference. In fact, I prefer the 105.


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## PlatyPius

Sram.


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## siclmn

My bike came with 105 levers and an Ultegra rear. The levers wore out in 7,000 miles which is one year of riding for me. I just put on the new Ultegra levers and now it feels like Dura Ace. That's all I know.


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## frdfandc

Sram.


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## majura

Although my bike currently has 5600 series 105, having tried out the competition... I rather like Sram.

I agree with what others said- try out Rival first though. Those comments regarding better braking from the hoods also translate into a different feel in the drops (although as Sram wisely thought out, a lot of people spend their time on the hoods).

+1 on waiting for Sram Apex. If it lives up the reviews, you get a very very slight weight penalty (an aluminium brake lever) for what is essentially Rival. Just spend the extra $$ and get an Ultegra level (or Sram Force) cassette and maybe Dura Ace chain.


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## Hank Stamper

You'll need to figure this one out for yourself. There are no quality issues with either so it'll boil down to personal preference.

If you are happy with the tiagra shifting technique I'd probably stay with shimano. If you think something could be better technique wise see if sram does it for you.

And not that you asked but I'd probably hold off and make a two step jump instead (Ultegra or Force) to make the change more worthwhile. Yes both sets you are looking at are better than tiagra but, in my opinion anyway, if you going to make an upgrade on the bike you may as well make a big leap. Small incremental changes don't provide such a great dollar/performance increase really. Especially if you're the type of guy who wants to upgrade during his first year you'll probably want to upgrade beyond 105/Rival after your second year so you may as well skip the middle step.


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## CliveDS

I have been riding both on demo bikes: 

Rival - Better for a racer, faster shifting and nicer ergonomics. Braking a little squishy and the crank is flexy. 

105 - Smoother and more solid feeling, shifting not nearly as fast as Rival. 

Rival - Looks a lot nicer and is lighter.


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## jlandry

http://forums.roadbikereview.com/showthread.php?t=198392


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## GirchyGirchy

Why are you upgrading, just for the hell of it? I ran Tiagra for four years before swapping it out for Force last year. Going from Tiagra to 105 isn't the big jump you might expect it to be. I'd stick with what I had for a few more years.

But if you insist upon changing, here's the same answer I gave in the last similar thread:

Each of these will work just fine. Go to a bike shop. Ride one bike with Shimano, and one with SRAM. Decide which group you like the most. Buy it.


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## procarrier

Its hard to know without using them both over time. Shimano 105 is very good from my experience, its smooth and easy to adjust. However if you are going to upgrade save a little more money and go a step or two higher to something like Sram force or Ultegra SL you will be glad you did.


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## ghost6

Have you used or at least tried both groups? Chances are that if you've tried Sram and Shimano, you'd know which you prefer. For me, Sram wins easily.


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## ph0enix

I'm having issues with 105 so I'd probably go with Rival if I had to choose again. My LBS adjusts the derailers once a week and they go out of tune a day later. It seems that changes in temperature greatly affect the tuning (mainly of the rear derailer). I'm not sure if that's the case with SRAM too.


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## majura

ph0enix said:


> I'm having issues with 105 so I'd probably go with Rival if I had to choose again. My LBS adjusts the derailers once a week and they go out of tune a day later. It seems that changes in temperature greatly affect the tuning (mainly of the rear derailer). I'm not sure if that's the case with SRAM too.


Sorry that this is OT:
That's not dependent on the brand of components... Go to another LBS, seems like their wrenches don't know what they're doing. Better yet, learn to do it yourself. It could be anything from worn out cables/chain/cassette/jockey wheels etc.


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## ph0enix

majura said:


> Sorry that this is OT:
> That's not dependent on the brand of components... Go to another LBS, seems like their wrenches don't know what they're doing. Better yet, learn to do it yourself. It could be anything from worn out cables/chain/cassette/jockey wheels etc.


Thanks! I've been considering trying another shop. I'm getting new wheels and a new cassette put on in the next few days and I'm going to see if things improve after that. I hope they do. If not, I'm taking the bike elsewhere.

Sorry for hijacking the thread.


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## Peanya

I'm in agreement with some of the posts here: they're both good, and get which one you personally prefer. I also think that keeping what you have is fine too, unless there's something wrong with it. Upgrading to 10 speeds won't make you faster, it will only give you just a little more range in the spinning gears.
My only brand-specific recommendation if you do change out is to use a Shimano cassette. You'll get crisper shifting regardless of whether it's SRAM or 105's.


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## allison

I had SRAM Rival on my first road bike (07). I tried Shimano shifting and just couldn't get it straight in my head. The SRAM stuff just seemed really intuitive to me, and I've stuck with it ever since. 

But, that's just a preference on the double tap. YMMV.


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## Trek2.3

GirchyGirchy said:


> Going from Tiagra to 105 isn't the big jump you might expect it to be.


I found it to be a big step up. Showing, I guess, how subjective this discussion is.


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## robdamanii

Honestly, the biggest change I noted was going from 2008 Force (original SRAM offering) to 2010 Red. The Zero Loss front and rear shifting is phenomenal. 

In your case, you will get the most bang for the buck with 2009 or later Rival. It will shift faster than 105, it will stay in tune (no fiddling necessary) longer than 105, and it will be (likely) more ergonomic than 105. It will also be rebuildable should you actually break something, which doesn't happen very often, but when it does you'll be thankful.

If you're upgrading just for the hell of it, do yourself a favor and ride a SRAM bike before you buy it. Not everyone likes the shifting mechanism, and it would suck to purchase something and hate it.


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## fun2none

While I don't have 105, my first road bike had Ultegra 6600. My latest bike came equipped '09 Rival. Here is my quick summary. It is my opinion and very subjective.

Ergonomics:
Rival is better than the Ultegra 6600. Rival's wider and flatter hoods are more comfortable for me. The DoubleTap system is easier and faster than STI once you get acclimated to it. I like having one lever to shift up or down. When riding in the drop bar, I need less fingers to shift Rival. With Ultegra, three to four fingers are used to sweep the outer (brake) levers.

Gear Transitions
Ultegra is smoother and softer. Gear changes require less effort than Rival. Shimano makes gentle "tick" sounds. SRAM gear changes make "POP-CLICK-SNAP" sounds. On Rival, moving from the large to small chain ring feels and sounds like breaking a glass rod. I actually prefer SRAM's tactile and aural feedback. You know in no uncertain terms that a gear change has occurred.

Keep in mind that the Rival drive train is brand new. It will most likely smooth out over time.

Tolerances
This is just my observation. The Ultegra appeared to have "wider" tolerances for being slightly out of adjustment. If the RD was out of adjustment by a little, you could hear if you paid close attention. Shifting still worked without much degradation. A half turn on the barrel adjuster and noise goes away.

Rival was another story. I spent a lot of time setting up the FD/RD. Compared to Ultegra, all the adjustments (hi-lo limit, FD angle, b-stop) need to be close to dead-on perfect. Anything less and Rival let's you know. It gets noisy and shifting is "gritty". Once you get it setup properly Rival works great. In my opinion, it's little more sensitive to adjustment than Ultegra.

Regarding the crankset, I could not tell how Ultegra and Rival differed other than the bottom bracket.

As to which is better ? I can't answer. As other posts have recommended, try them both and get what works for you. For me, I like SRAM's user interface better than Shimano's.


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## UGASkiDawg

I like Shimano's shifting better than SRAM but like the SRAM ergonomics, looks and weight better than SRAM.....since I'm shallow I went with SRAM over Shimano on my latest build basically for the looks.


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## Hank Stamper

robdamanii said:


> it will stay in tune (no fiddling necessary) longer than 105,


Just out of curiosity what are you basing this 'fact' on?


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## robdamanii

Hank Stamper said:


> Just out of curiosity what are you basing this 'fact' on?


The short answer: my opinion is based upon observing my own equipment and my riding buddies' equipment.

The long answer:

Personal observation, both of my own equipment and other's I ride with has shown that SRAM makes a system that is far more tolerant of contamination and far less likely to require fiddling to keep shifting correctly. Note I said to "keep" shifting correctly. I find that SRAM is a bit tougher to set up properly, particularly the front shifting, but once dialed in it stays there much longer.

After putting in quite a few thousand miles on both Shimano and SRAM components (both road and mountain) it's very obvious to me that the SRAM drivetrains are much hardier than their shimano counterparts. Perhaps it's due to the difference in cable pull, perhaps it's due to the design of the rear derailleurs, I'm not sure. I can say that Shimano drivetrains are tinkered with far more than SRAM drivetrains in the clubs I ride with.

I'll never return to Shimano's shifting systems again as long as SRAM is in business. Case in point, when I built my 'cross bike, I used 7800 shifters and derailleurs I had laying around from my fiancee's old bike. I did nothing but screw around with the shifting on it, and finally replaced it with Force parts because I got sick of the 7800 stuff working like crap. Installed the Force drivetrain, rode it for a dozen hours, tuned it up to take out the cable stretch and I haven't touched it since.


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## AvantDale

My Tiagra front and rear did seem to need more "fiddling" with. The front never shifted smoothly. Maybe its because it came with a triple and I put a double on it. The RD was floppy when going over bumps.

I had my Force parts installed in Sept 09...and I have yet to need any adjustments (besides the cable stretch adjustments a few weeks later). I've got about 800-900 miles on it now.


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## lalahsghost

Rival, IMO 20% more bang for your buck.


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## Rainbow Grease

Currently have an old 105 derailer and just sucks ass, even my LBS could'nt figure out the gear skipping issue, I've adjusted the crap out of the thing and still doing it. I was saving for a new 105 group - however I may just save longer and try better components. I hear very good things about the ergonomics of the SRAM shifters and since I have small t-rex hands those shifters may be made for me! Well The SRAM Rival crank looks like **** compared to the 105 thou. ok bye.


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## old_fuji

I'm pricing out groupsets online, and it seems I can build an old 5600 105/Ultegra frankengroup for more than $100 less than a Rival/Apex frankengroup. That's Ultegra shifters and 105 derailleurs vs. Rival shifters and Apex derailleurs, both with Avid CX brakes and generic 10-speed chains. It seems the general consensus is to go with SRAM, but I'm having a hard time justifying the $100 difference. Can anyone convince me to go SRAM for $100 more?


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## ghost6

old_fuji said:


> I'm pricing out groupsets online, and it seems I can build an old 5600 105/Ultegra frankengroup for more than $100 less than a Rival/Apex frankengroup. That's Ultegra shifters and 105 derailleurs vs. Rival shifters and Apex derailleurs, both with Avid CX brakes and generic 10-speed chains. It seems the general consensus is to go with SRAM, but I'm having a hard time justifying the $100 difference. Can anyone convince me to go SRAM for $100 more?


I'd pay $100 more for Sram because I like it that much better than Shimano. In terms of ergonomics, Sram and Shimano are similar to comparing apples and oranges. When I'm asked which is "better," I say try it for yourself and you'll probably know within a few miles or minutes. I used dura ace and by chance rode a bike with rival (yes, "just " rival, not even force or red). After a few miles, I knew I liked Sram enough to switch and never look back. I wouldn't choose without trying both.


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## PlatyPius

Rainbow Grease said:


> Currently have an old 105 derailer and just sucks ass, even my LBS could'nt figure out the gear skipping issue, I've adjusted the crap out of the thing and still doing it. I was saving for a new 105 group - however I may just save longer and try better components. I hear very good things about the ergonomics of the SRAM shifters and since I have small t-rex hands those shifters may be made for me! *Well The SRAM Rival crank looks like **** compared to the 105 thou.* ok bye.


Really? I've always hated the "Dead Octopus" look of Shimano's cranks...


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## old_fuji

ghost6 said:


> I'd pay $100 more for Sram because I like it that much better than Shimano. In terms of ergonomics, Sram and Shimano are similar to comparing apples and oranges. When I'm asked which is "better," I say try it for yourself and you'll probably know within a few miles or minutes. I used dura ace and by chance rode a bike with rival (yes, "just " rival, not even force or red). After a few miles, I knew I liked Sram enough to switch and never look back. I wouldn't choose without trying both.


Is there a tactful way of trying both out? I've always heard it was taboo to try something out at an LBS, then turn around and buy it online.


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## PlatyPius

old_fuji said:


> Is there a tactful way of trying both out? I've always heard it was taboo to try something out at an LBS, then turn around and buy it online.


Do you have any friends?

It isn't taboo. Just rather uncool. You could always tell a story about wanting to try out SRAM just because....


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## old_fuji

PlatyPius said:


> Do you have any friends?
> 
> It isn't taboo. Just rather uncool. You could always tell a story about wanting to try out SRAM just because....


No friends who ride bikes  
All my friends are the stereotypical "Millenials" who sit around all day drinking Redbull and eating Cheetos while playing _Call of Duty/Halo/Modern Warfare_.

I'll poke around the LBS's and see if any of 'em will let me try out a SRAM bike then.


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## mjdwyer23

I've got lots of miles on Red and Rival, not going back to Shimano anytime soon.


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## ghost6

old_fuji said:


> Is there a tactful way of trying both out? I've always heard it was taboo to try something out at an LBS, then turn around and buy it online.


Yea, I think it has more to do with your approach at an LBS. Maybe start by asking about Sram then see if they mind if you "try it out." If you don't buy a group set from the LBS, you can support them in some way.


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## Weav

AvantDale said:


> I went from Tiagra to Force.
> 
> The main thing for me was the ergonomics of the SRAM lever. The higher pivot allowed me more leverage while braking in the hoods. The Tiagra would cramp my hands on long descents. The upshift on the SRAM needed a bit more effort...but the downshifts are lightning fast.
> 
> 
> 
> You'll probably save about 400 grams with the Rival group over the 105.


This guy nailed it. I went SRAM Rival because I loved the ergonomics, I don't like the ergonomics of Shimano, I've even ridden the new Dura Ace, it just doesn't work that well for me. The upshift on SRAM will be more effort but the downshift has Shimano beat, so it's a tradeoff that's easy to make, and it's lighter to boot. I wouldn't blame you for going shimano though, it's buttery smooth both up and down, front and back shifting, if you like the ergonomics.


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## colombo357

I'm used to 105 so I got that. Since you're a n00b, you can probably get used to the double-tap immediately. I'd recommend Rival for the weight savings.


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## colombo357

old_fuji said:


> who sit around all day drinking Redbull and eating Cheetos while playing _Call of Duty/Halo/Modern Warfare_.


I play those games after a good ride. But the bike is far more important. 

Do those "friends" have [good looking] girlfriends? If not, they're cramping your style.


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## jermso

rival hands down.


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## mjdwyer23

Also, with Sram you can be in the drops with the shift lever pulled back and not affect your braking (helpful during sprints).


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## jermso

now that is a very useful safety feature.

Like campy.


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## |3iker

Why not try Campagnolo?


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## Weav

2 things: Either you are bumping the derailleurs when you park your bike or load it in your car or bike rack OR your LBS does not know what in the world he is doing.


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## Elfstone

|3iker said:


> Why not try Campagnolo?


Dang, you drop the C word, this should make things more interesting. Well, why not Campy? How dose Campy fit into the equation?

Peace


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## Weav

I know, I was thinking the same thing... he must have a set of steel kahonas because that was a ballsy move. Really though, I'd love to try Campy some day but it seems to be more costly and there is really only 1 mechanic in town that knows what he's doing with it. I'm sure it's a bang up product though.


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## ProphetBanana

Go Sram. Less play in the levers to upshift means you can put power down on the pedals and accelerate faster in a crit or fast group ride.


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## TheOcho

I don't have much experience with Rival, but my 105 gruppo needs pretty frequent TLC. Other than that, its wonderful. 

Cheers

-Ocho


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## roadrider8181

*105 vs rival*

having a roubaix sl2 carbon rival and a cdale super six 105 i like the smoothness of the 105 but i can say this and i think alot of people will agree usually when you go to a lbc they don't usually spend alot of time tuning the shifters and derailers until you purchase the bike. also they take time to break in as well. there is one other thing i want to point out changing gears is a art i have found that if when riding on the flats run thru the gears when you are not climbing and let them realign themselves. try to prepare yourself for what gear your going to climb in before you get to the hill. one last word a problem with the rival the gears seem to need to be adjusted more often and are like a loose transmission. but when tuned they are very good.


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## robdamanii

roadrider8181 said:


> having a roubaix sl2 carbon rival and a cdale super six 105 i like the smoothness of the 105 but i can say this and i think alot of people will agree usually when you go to a lbc they don't usually spend alot of time tuning the shifters and derailers until you purchase the bike. also they take time to break in as well. there is one other thing i want to point out changing gears is a art i have found that if when riding on the flats run thru the gears when you are not climbing and let them realign themselves. try to prepare yourself for what gear your going to climb in before you get to the hill. one last word a problem with the rival the gears seem to need to be adjusted more often and are like a loose transmission. but when tuned they are very good.


Holy crap, thread dredge and learn to use paragraphs.

kthx.


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## ziscwg

roadrider8181 said:


> having a roubaix sl2 carbon rival and a cdale super six 105 i like the smoothness of the 105 but i can say this and i think alot of people will agree usually when you go to a lbc they don't usually spend alot of time tuning the shifters and derailers until you purchase the bike. also they take time to break in as well. there is one other thing i want to point out changing gears is a art i have found that if when riding on the flats run thru the gears when you are not climbing and let them realign themselves. try to prepare yourself for what gear your going to climb in before you get to the hill. one last word a problem with the rival the gears seem to need to be adjusted more often and are like a loose transmission. but when tuned they are very good.


I can't say I agree on the gear change before you start going up. I try and use as much momentum as I can, then shift as needed. Is it an artform? No, it's more just knowing how to shift and "unweight" the pedals at the right time.


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## Weav

thanks to whomever revived this thread, it's a common question asked by alot of first time buyers.


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## roadrider8181

*105 and sram rival*



Tommy Walker said:


> The new 105 is awesome and I believe priced lower than the Sram Rival


I agree have 3 road bikes Specialized Robaix with rival a Cannondale Supersix with the new 105 and a Caad 10-3 with ultegra. Let me tell you the new Caad 10 rides like a carbon bike and is awesome get if you want a race bike. No quality let down love this bike and it is my favorite. Back to rival.

rival sram causes more trouble gets confused and you have to run thru the gears just all the time to clean it up until finally your scared to use you lowest gear cause you fear the chain may come off when your going downhill at 35mph soon as i get some extra cash the rival is coming off and i will never have it again and i saw in one post where a guy said force is equal to dura ace come on. i have been riding 30 years and ive had more than 1 tech tell me sram is a pain and i can'y stant that double click sounds like the shifter is going to break. if it comes on the bike you want get the shimano.


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## roadrider8181

ziscwg said:


> I can't say I agree on the gear change before you start going up. I try and use as much momentum as I can, then shift as needed. Is it an artform? No, it's more just knowing how to shift and "unweight" the pedals at the right time.


I was talking about sram rival you have to be really precise when using rival i wouldn't recommend rival to a beginner road biker.

Maybe i just got a lemon rival group set you no those always exist in everything. I should have been more specific in my 1st post.


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## roadrider8181

Weav said:


> thanks to whomever revived this thread, it's a common question asked by alot of first time buyers.


roadrider8181 revised it how do you like your Look seen a bunch in the bike shops just curious are they more a comfort bike or race type bike. They are a nicelooking ride just haven't tested one.


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## JTrider

roadrider8181 said:


> if it comes on the bike you want get the shimano.


I have 0 SRAM experience other than new bike test rides (Apex and Rival), and I struggled at first with the double tap but i cant say much about sram other than that. A lot of people rave, and some rant. However, I can speak for 105. My last bike had 2001 16 speed 105 full gruppo and i kept it in good shape and sold the bike and literally everyone who looked at the bike commented on how silky smooth the shifting was and asked if i had just got the bike tuned. I loved that drivetrain. My new bike coincidentially has 105 full kit too and after 500 miles, I am still very satisfied with it. I have had adjustments made a once or twice due to cable stretch but it has been very consistant and smooth.


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## robdamanii

roadrider8181 said:


> I was talking about sram rival you have to be really precise when using rival i wouldn't recommend rival to a beginner road biker.
> 
> Maybe i just got a lemon rival group set you no those always exist in everything. I should have been more specific in my 1st post.


There's no precision issues with Rival if it's properly adjusted. Same with 105.

I've got Red on my road bike, Force on my 'cross bike, and my wife has Rival on her road and 'cross rigs. No problems in 3 years other than a warranty on the rear shifter of the road bike.


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## Weav

roadrider8181 said:


> rival sram causes more trouble gets confused and you have to run thru the gears just all the time to clean it up until finally your scared to use you lowest gear cause you fear the chain may come off when your going downhill at 35mph soon as i get some extra cash the rival is coming off and i will never have it again and i saw in one post where a guy said force is equal to dura ace come on. i have been riding 30 years and ive had more than 1 tech tell me sram is a pain and i can'y stant that double click sounds like the shifter is going to break. if it comes on the bike you want get the shimano.


I would bet that your Rival is not properly setup or something. Half the peloton uses SRAM and they go alot faster than 35mph downhill without problems. If a mechanic is old school he's probably going to be alot more used to adjusting Shimano, thus he will be partial. SRAM needs to be setup properly as does shimano. They both work flawlessly, but differently, when done right. 

My beginner bike has Rival on it. I tested both Ultegra and Rival and liked the quicker actuation of the SRAM levers on the back, I like the front shifting on Ultegra, but decided on SRAM since the majority of my shifting is in the back. The ergonomics were also a major plus side for SRAM, as was reach adjust on the levers. I hated Shimano's ergonomics back in 2009. 

I can easily see how someone could compare Force to Dura Ace.


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## Weav

roadrider8181 said:


> roadrider8181 revised it how do you like your Look seen a bunch in the bike shops just curious are they more a comfort bike or race type bike. They are a nicelooking ride just haven't tested one.


I really do love my Look 566. Look really only makes race bikes, but with the 566 model that came out in 2009 they went after the enthusiast market who tend to like something a bit more comfortable with a little bit taller head tube so you don't have to get down in that race position if you don't want to. It's a bike you could ride all day, keep up with any fast club ride or race it in a crit. Now your CAAD10 is going to be a better crit racer because that's what it's made for but the Look 566 will hold it's own. 

At the time it was one of the best values in the business, some bike manufacturers have caught up but it's still right up there with the best in it's price range. $2500-$3000.


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## MixMastaPJ

Anyone have any different to say about this with the new 2012 sets? BD has a Le Champ with Rival for 1399 but I'd like something 105 or better, would this work? or should I splurge for apex? ultegra?


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## milkbaby

MixMastaPJ said:


> Anyone have any different to say about this with the new 2012 sets? BD has a Le Champ with Rival for 1399 but I'd like something 105 or better, would this work? or should I splurge for apex? ultegra?


I was gonna say "zombie thread"... 

I am riding new 6700 Ultegra, old 5600 105, and Red. There is not a huge difference to me between 6700 and 5600 except for maybe the front shifting, maybe due to the stiffer Ultegra chainring set up, it is awesome. Front shifting on Red is a little better than 5600 but not anywhere as great as 6700. Red rear shifting is awesome on cable release/upshift (harder gear), but I am not a big fan of double tap. 5600 and 6700 are very light action on the rear shifts whereas Red feels like there's more tactile feedback. I prefer the taller hoods on the old 5600, just works for my hands and my riding style better.

Other than 6700, I am running different brake calipers from the rest of the groupset, so I can't say anything re Shimano vs SRAM. Ultegra brakes have very good power and modulation, and the Dura-Ace pads are great on aluminum rims (these pads are also supplied with Ultegra calipers).

I would vote for test riding the same bike with Rival and with 105 and deciding from there. The hood ergonomics could be a go/no-go situation for some people. Same with doubletap shifting. Good luck!


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## 1bamafan14

I have Apex and absolutley love it! The shifting is awesomely smooth and quick. The pull is consistent through all the gears. I was a die hard shimano man but Sram stole my heart on the Apex groupo!


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## Magickiller88

105's


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## PlatyPius

Magickiller88 said:


> 105's


105's backpack?

105's dirty diaper?

105's misuse of the English language?


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## tony west

chris212 said:


> I am upgrading my components from Tiagra. Can I get some advice as far as opinions on 105 or Sram? 1st year rider here and leaning towards Sram. Thanks all!


No question 105


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## tuck

I had SRAM on my 2.1, and had issues with it. Coulda just been me being a nooooob.

The Madone I have now has 105, and I prefer it over the SRAM.


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## robdamanii

tony west said:


> No question 105


No question that is a wrong answer.

Rival.


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## mojo2011

Hi. Sorry to hijack the thread, but Ii must ask. Do you think that 105 comp are worth an extra $500 over the Sram Apex?


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## PlatyPius

mojo2011 said:


> Hi. Sorry to hijack the thread, but Ii must ask. Do you think that 105 comp are worth an extra $500 over the Sram Apex?


No.
.
.
.


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## MarvinK

Out of personal preference for the ergonomics, I'd pick Apex over 105 at the same price.

I definitely wouldn't replace 105 or Apex with the other... or Rival, for that matter. In fact, I'm not sure I'd replace 10spd Tiagra just to replace it. You can slowly start upgrading parts... as they wear out or for ergonomics reasons (you're probably not doing it for weight if you're aiming 105/Rival). SRAM shifters and rear derailleur will work with a Shimano compact crank and front derailleur (and 10spd chain and cassette). 

What's driving the upgrade?


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## Digger51

I really like the SRAM double tap system. It took about 2 or 3 rides to get used to it (I had 105 before), but now I would never go back to Shimano. Not because I think Shimano is crap, but because I really like SRAM. I also like the sound the rear derailer makes with the SRAM. Sometimes too smooth and too quiet is not good.


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## Mute

Digger51 said:


> I really like the SRAM double tap system. It took about 2 or 3 rides to get used to it (I had 105 before), but now I would never go back to Shimano. Not because I think Shimano is crap, but because I really like SRAM. I also like the sound the rear derailer makes with the SRAM. Sometimes too smooth and too quiet is not good.


I feel the same way.


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## sandman77

I rode a bike with sram for the first time today (red). My own bike has 105 and at first I didn't like the double click system (especially when struggling up a steep hill and going for a easier gear when I was already on the biggest cog) but I soon got used to it and I think I actually prefer it now.


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## NJBiker72

sandman77 said:


> I rode a bike with sram for the first time today (red). My own bike has 105 and at first I didn't like the double click system (especially when struggling up a steep hill and going for a easier gear when I was already on the biggest cog) but I soon got used to it and I think I actually prefer it now.


I agree. Actually I thought Red was harder to get used to than the apex and rival I tested. Just so smooth it is a little easy to double tap when you first get it.


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## asvc

Rival without doubts. Lighter and work like a charm.


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## NJBiker72

mojo2011 said:


> Hi. Sorry to hijack the thread, but Ii must ask. Do you think that 105 comp are worth an extra $500 over the Sram Apex?


Not at all. Not even at $1. Apex is pretty nice.


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## ph0enix

I went from a 105 (5600) equipped bike to a Rival equipped one and I like it WAY better. I constantly had shifting issues with 105. Some might argue that either my 105 components were a lemon or that they weren't dialed in correctly and they might be right but the issues are gone since I went to SRAM and that's all I care about.


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## CleavesF

They both are basically the same. 

The only thing that should matter is whether you like doubletap or not.


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## burgrat

I have Ultegra and Rival on 2 separate bikes and I like them both. You really should ride both 105 and Rival to determine which you prefer. DoubleTap took me about 10 seconds to get used to. I have no problem going between DoubleTap and STI. Both are great.


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## slacker190

As a user of both Rival and 105, there are really only two big differences.
1. doubletap vs the shimano action, both of which work great.
2. ergonomics of hoods. Personally, rival is more comfortable, but 105 isn't uncomfortable at all.

Both are setup perfectly, so they both shift very fast and accurately, never any mechanical problems for shifting. I occasionally forget what shifting action to make when i first hop on either bike, so it takes one shift to re-acquaint myself every once and a while.

Bottom line: both work very well if you can set it up. If you can't get it set up right, not even the best parts will work right. I usually would vote for the Rival since on most bikes it comes with a better crankset than the 105 model.


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## Action Jackson

ph0enix said:


> I went from a 105 (5600) equipped bike to a Rival equipped one and I like it WAY better. I constantly had shifting issues with 105. Some might argue that either my 105 components were a lemon or that they weren't dialed in correctly and they might be right but the issues are gone since I went to SRAM and that's all I care about.


Same thing with me, my old bike had a full 105 group. It might have not been dialed in correctly or something but my new bike (2011 CAAD 10-4) with its rival group is amazing. Like it so much more, sticking with SRAM for quite a while.


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