# Carbon Seat Rails Do We Really Need Them?



## RoadBoy1 (Oct 1, 2011)

I have been reading posts here and in other Forums about the challenges involved in using a saddle made with carbon seat rails and I have to ask is it really worth all the fuss, risk, and added expense just to say that you have a saddle with "carbon seat rails"? To me the answer is a resounding heck no!

From what I understand once you go out and buy a seat with carbon rails the drain on your wallet isn't over. You next have to buy a special clamp or if you can't find a clamp to fit your particular seatpost you have to buy a brand new seatpost at a cost well North of $100.00. You have to be very careful in mounting the saddle so as not to nick or damage the carbon rails and then you have to tighten the clamp with a torque wrench.

I think we all need to pull our heads out of our rears, take a reality check and ask is all this nonsense worth it just for bragging rights? I think not. Just because something can be done doesn't mean it should be done or even that it is the wise and sensible thing to do. I have yet to see a saddle with carbon rails that weighs less than a similar saddle with Ti rails and forget about these claims of a better ride. All the flexing that the carbon rails do leads to one thing, an early rail failure and you riding home with a broken saddle in your jersey pocket which the LBS isn't going to warranty for you.

It used to be that that the cycling community set the tone and direction for the industry and now the manufacturers dictate to us what we will buy and this is why we have bike that cost $15,000 and more. This is most certainly a case of the tail wagging the dog and there is definitely something wrong with this picture. Come on everyone, pull your heads out and let's get back to the way it should be.


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## PoorCyclist (Oct 14, 2010)

I bought carbon rail saddles,
it was same size as metal version
I bolted it on. 
Not always have space to use a torque wrench, so just snugged with a 5nm key which is about 5nm, don't really need to pull 8 or 12nm or what usually is a big torque number.

Whether it is worth it or not it's up to you.. lets say carbon rail is 160g and Ti Rail 200g


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## scirocco (Dec 7, 2010)

RoadBoy1 said:


> It used to be that that the cycling community set the tone and direction for the industry and now the manufacturers dictate to us what we will buy and this is why we have bike that cost $15,000 and more.


No, this is why we aren't still riding around on 30lb steel clunkers, like we would be if everyone took your approach to every innovation. Saddle rails may only be a few grams saving but that is how manufacturing gets better, a little here, a little there, it all adds up.


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## leo santos (Nov 30, 2011)

yep, usually 20-40 gr savings when compared to similar saddles (check specialized line for instance).. pretty indiscernible.

though Im happy with my Ti or Cr-Mo railed saddles, im just really curious if carbon is more confortable.. I mean, used to have an aluminium seatpost and when swapped to a carbon one, it was a noticeable change for the better on the ride... would just the rails do something similar?


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## Mdeth1313 (Nov 1, 2001)

RoadBoy1 said:


> I have been reading posts here and in other Forums about the challenges involved in using a saddle made with carbon seat rails and I have to ask is it really worth all the fuss, risk, and added expense just to say that you have a saddle with "carbon seat rails"? To me the answer is a resounding heck no!
> 
> From what I understand once you go out and buy a seat with carbon rails the drain on your wallet isn't over. You next have to buy a special clamp or if you can't find a clamp to fit your particular seatpost you have to buy a brand new seatpost at a cost well North of $100.00. You have to be very careful in mounting the saddle so as not to nick or damage the carbon rails and then you have to tighten the clamp with a torque wrench.
> 
> ...


Clearly you do not. Don't buy one. That is all. :idea:


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## Cinelli 82220 (Dec 2, 2010)

RoadBoy1 said:


> there is definitely something wrong with this picture.


You use a 15" amber monchrome monitor, right? Nobody needs anything bigger or with more than one color.


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## Special Eyes (Feb 2, 2011)

I agree that advancing technology got us to the fine lightweight bikes we now ride. But, there are dozens of ultra fine-tunes we can do to get our bikes to weigh 13 lbs. Each one makes no difference on it's own, but the weight weenie contingency is into this stuff, and then it adds up, but not necessarily to that much greater performance. I thought of carbon rails over my hollow Ti rails to save an ounce, but if I take my 26 oz. water bottle on a ride rather than my 21 oz, it's a wash. If I carry an extra energy bar it negates the value of $2.5K wheel upgrades or carbon seat rails, but I ride better because I'm nourished. At some point you just gotta stop.


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## Kontact (Apr 1, 2011)

Carbon is a poor fit to current saddle rail dimensions, so I agree with the OP to an extent.

If everyone wants to go carbon, then a more appropriate system, like Selle Italia's Monolink, should be adopted. No different than the move to 31.8 handlebars - narrow carbon bits don't take to clamping forces. Until then, carbon rails will continue to be delicate and more prone to breaking than other systems.


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## FBinNY (Jan 24, 2009)

RoadBoy1 said:


> I have been reading posts here and in other Forums about the challenges involved in using a saddle made with carbon seat rails and I have to ask is it really worth all the fuss, risk, and added expense just to say that you have a saddle with "carbon seat rails"? .


So where do we draw the line on what's worth it and what isn't. carbon rims OK, seat rails No? carbon derailluer cages? crank arms? bottle cages? Ultre light tires. 

C'mon. This is America, you can buy this stuff or you can pass, your choice. But that's no reason to make a big deal over it. 

Or is it that you feel some sort of peer pressure that makes you feel you somehow have to go along even if you feel it's dumb? 

So to answer your question, do we need this stuff? Of course not, but some people want it so it exists.


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## turbogrover (Jan 1, 2006)

I tried out some aluminum rims before, but switched back to my dependable steel rims. They still roll down the road just the same, and there is no fear of the lightweight aluminum breaking.


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## Pitts Pilot (Dec 5, 2011)

I have a Selle Italia Teknoligika Flow - super fancy, carbon rail saddle. It has given me no trouble - bolts on the same - looks super trick, blah, blah, blah. No problem though. I think I prefer titanium rails, but it's hard to rule out all the other variables. I have a bunch of saddles, but I'm not willing to buy two the same with only the rails different to isolate this variable. I think, however, that titanium has more give/flex. It might not take out as much road "buzz," but I don't think I feel that much through the saddle and short padding. Going there for weight is a bit silly, but my all carbon saddle does look the business. That's what matters, right?


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## SystemShock (Jun 14, 2008)

Sure, beyond a certain point, weight-weenie-ism does start to resemble insanity... especially for not-so-light riders. 

But hey, let ppl find out the way they always have and the way they probably always will: via breakages and potential crashes, or lack thereof. That's the free market, you can go buy what you want, so long as you've got the $$$ and are willing to bear any consequences.

It breaks and you crash = oops, you went a little too far with this. Hope you didn't break anything organic. 
It doesn't break = congrats, a winner is you.

To me, it seems silly to risk teeth and other assorted body bits just to save what is a very small amount of weight compared to the rider, but other ppl may be operating under the 'chicks dig scars' mindset and/or are the kind of person who needs to push the bleeding edge & actually see stuff break first before they go a little more durable.

Whatever, so long as they don't crash right in front of moi.
.


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## kbwh (May 28, 2010)

FBinNY said:


> C'mon. This is America


 No it isn't. 

--

According to Steve Hogg any carbon railed Selle SMP has more shock absorbance than it's steel railed version.

The Selle Italia Monolink system is fine, but the effective rail length on most of the seats I've seen with it is ridiculously short.


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## tihsepa (Nov 27, 2008)

turbogrover said:


> I tried out some aluminum rims before, but switched back to my dependable steel rims. They still roll down the road just the same, and there is no fear of the lightweight aluminum breaking.


Those are really fast when you hit the brakes.


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## milkbaby (Aug 14, 2009)

Do we really need bicycles? We usually just end up in the same place we started from, so why not just walk?  There's also less chance of being crashed out by another walker or laying yourself down turning a corner... hehehe


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## Shojii (Nov 27, 2004)

The OP's just pointing out that in terms of UCI-legal cycling technology, we're reaching the point of diminishing returns. I tend to agree.

Carbon vs Alu seat rails is quite a different matter to Alu vs steel rims.


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## Elpimpo (Jan 16, 2012)

scirocco said:


> No, this is why we aren't still riding around on 30lb steel clunkers, like we would be if everyone took your approach to every innovation. Saddle rails may only be a few grams saving but that is how manufacturing gets better, a little here, a little there, it all adds up.


X2

How do you think carbon has gone from unreliable to damn near standard?

Or how we now have steel frames that can be built to 16lbs just using off the shelf stuff?

I say let them build them $15000 bikes, they'll learn a lot and use it. Shoot, i aint buying it so i don't worry.


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## Elpimpo (Jan 16, 2012)

milkbaby said:


> Do we really need bicycles? We usually just end up in the same place we started from, so why not just walk?  There's also less chance of being crashed out by another walker or laying yourself down turning a corner... hehehe




You sir, just got repped.


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## Oxtox (Aug 16, 2006)

I recently decided to purchase a white saddle...wasn't looking for a carbon rail model, but happened to find one for a great price.

when it was delivered, I picked up the box and thought I'd been swindled...felt like there was nothing inside. saddle is crazy light. installed it on a Thomson post in seconds and have had zero issues.

do I NEED a carbon rail saddle? no.

do I LIKE it? hell yeah, it's sweet. 

bottom line is that if you want a bike, Walmart sells lots of them at great prices. you don't really NEED anything more exotic that what they stock. 

Luddites are amusing...


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## SystemShock (Jun 14, 2008)

Shojii said:


> The OP's just pointing out that in terms of UCI-legal cycling technology, we're reaching the point of diminishing returns. I tend to agree.
> 
> Carbon vs Alu seat rails is quite a different matter to Alu vs steel rims.


+1. 

And I'd tend to agree with the OP that a major driving force behind weight-weenie-ism is the industry itself... if you can make a significant number of ppl spend an extra $1 per gram shaved (which is often what it comes down to), you can make out like a bandit.

Again NTTAWWT, but I don't really see the value proposition there personally. There's plenty of 10-40 lb overweight guys out there who obsess about shaving the last few ounces off their bike. It's entirely understandable why some might find that a bit crazed. 
.


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## FBinNY (Jan 24, 2009)

SystemShock said:


> +1.
> 
> And I'd tend to agree with the OP that a major driving force behind weight-weenie-ism is the industry itself... if you can make a significant number of ppl spend an extra $1 per gram shaved (which is often what it comes down to), you can make out like a bandit.


Yes, lots of this stuff is marketing, with manufacturers playing _can you top this _trying to make marketing points being lighter, cooler or having buzzwords they can use in ads.

The fact is that it's now very easy to produce bikes below the minimum weight standard, so there's no need for things like carbon saddle rails.

However, whatever weight can be saved in any one place, can be used to offset a heavier part elsewhere, where it could mean more strength or stiffness, so this may not be a totally bad thing.

For most people, bikes at this level aren't purely about function anymore. Much of it is a fashion statement, and it's kind of chicken and egg whether the industry is creating the demand or responding to it.

Hopefully there'll still be solid, not so light durable stuff for those of us who pound miles and want to keep a bike a bit longer without spending crazy dollars. I no longer get sticker shock, it way past that, but the dough folks are spending amaze me. Then again I bought my first 10s Campy Record top of the line Italian bike for a staggering $165.00 back in 1967 and I'm still riding it today, though just for special occasions.


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## Guest (Feb 12, 2012)

Shojii said:


> The OP's just pointing out that in terms of UCI-legal cycling technology, we're reaching the point of diminishing returns. I tend to agree.
> 
> Carbon vs Alu seat rails is quite a different matter to Alu vs steel rims.


I ran into a decidedly NON UCI-Legal bike which, for lack of a better term, kicked my ass yesterday 

I was trying to catch up to one of those goofy looking yellow Velomobiles that look like a giant banana on 3 fully-enclosed wheels while riding into a headwind... just as I caught up the cyclist (driver?) saw me pedaling like a maniac in the drops in one of his wing-mirrors, chuckled a bit, then accelerated and dropped me


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## Special Eyes (Feb 2, 2011)

Elpimpo said:


> You sir, just got repped.


You're joking, right?


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## scblack (Dec 20, 2011)

I have an all-carbon saddle, which yes, means carbon rails. Quite comfortable too, 100km rides are no problem with comfort.

Used now for 8 months, 3,000kms and ridden hard. No problems with the carbon rails on it. 

Oh, and it weighs 105gm on the scale - thats the seat plus rails.



Details: I weigh 80kg and ride in Sydney Australia, where roads are FAR from smooth - as I said ridden hard, there is no billiard table smooth riding here.


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## Bozworth (Nov 23, 2011)

I got a good deal on the Ritchey WCS Carbon Streem, but I have yet to mount it up. Anyone had any issues with this saddle? I'm willing to give the carbon rails a try...


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## Salsa_Lover (Jul 6, 2008)

leo santos said:


> yep, usually 20-40 gr savings when compared to similar saddles (check specialized line for instance).. *pretty indiscernible*.
> 
> though Im happy with my Ti or Cr-Mo railed saddles, im just really curious if carbon is more confortable.. I mean, used to have an aluminium seatpost and when swapped to a carbon one, it was a noticeable change for the better on the ride... would just the rails do something similar?


Well this is not a true Weight Weenie logic

Weight savings has to be taken as "relative" weight saving not "absolute".

40grs is next to nothing for a full bike

but it is 20% reduction for a saddle, that is quite high.


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## RussellS (Feb 1, 2010)

RoadBoy1 said:


> You next have to buy a special clamp or if you can't find a clamp to fit your particular seatpost you have to buy a brand new seatpost at a cost well North of $100.00. You have to be very careful in mounting the saddle so as not to nick or damage the carbon rails and then you have to tighten the clamp with a torque wrench.


I have a Fizik Aliante carbon rail saddle. Use a Control Tech carbon seatpost. Paid $40for it. It has a regular aluminum clamp on top. Used a 5mm Allen wrench to tighten it. No torque wrench. I have a torque wrench but did not get it out to install a saddle.


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## SystemShock (Jun 14, 2008)

I do wish the ppl who say things like "have ridden a carbon-railed saddle for 6 months with absolutely no problems!' would also state the rider weight involved and how smooth or rough their roads are.

That would be a better picture of what we could expect from going that route. Some 135 lb guy on glass-smooth roads isn't much a metric on durability, if you follow.
.


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## cwdzoot (Oct 16, 2005)

175lbs and been riding the same Fizik Aliante carbon rail saddle on my training bike for 7 years. It still has the old round rails. No issues and love the comfort. 

Also have carbon rail SLR on my MTB and Carbon rail SLR on two off my race bikes, never a issue. 

Carbon rails a bit expensive and not a must but a nice touch if you are willing to fork out a lot for a little in return.


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## Guest (Feb 15, 2012)

Interestingly the latest Fizik, the Kurve, I have the chameleon, it has aluminum rails. Very comfortable.


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## skill3 (Feb 18, 2012)

I just hate it when I see anything carbon break. Especially saddle rails, OUCH!


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## FBinNY (Jan 24, 2009)

skill3 said:


> I just hate it when I see anything carbon break. Especially saddle rails, OUCH!


Carbon saddle rails that you see breaking, won't hurt you. It's the ones where you can't see them breaking that are likely to be a PITA.


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## atpjunkie (Mar 23, 2002)

*I'm a clyde*

I don't buy anything weight weenie-ish
I had a Ti rail saddle come with a bike
made me sad when in snapped, heck I could have sold it and bought a steel railed saddle and had some $ left over
but again, I'm big, your results may vary


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