# Protein Question



## rydbyk (Feb 17, 2010)

Everyone says you need protein at the 2+ hour markers.

Question:

Do you start intake of protein at minute 1 when you plan on doing 2+ hour rides

OR

Do you start intake of protein at the 2 hour marker and continue till the end of ride/race?

Thanks!


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## NotZeroSix (Apr 18, 2010)

Casein is a good alternative that slowly absorb the consumption of protein. I take it every morning after breakfast just before my ride so I dont worry about finding protein.


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## Ghost234 (Jun 1, 2010)

I like to take it at the 2-3 hour mark. I know a lot of my S1 buddies like to put recoverite in their water bottles if they plan on doing long rides. It seems to work wonders for them.


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## iliveonnitro (Feb 19, 2006)

Just eat. You're putting far too much thought into this.

Water + real food. There really is no other substitute during training rides. Everything else really is a waste of money and typically tastes bad.

Try PB&J, or PB&Honey.


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## DirtTurtle (Dec 21, 2007)

iliveonnitro said:


> Just eat. You're putting far too much thought into this.
> 
> Water + real food. There really is no other substitute during training rides. Everything else really is a waste of money and typically tastes bad.
> 
> Try PB&J, or PB&Honey.


I like this ^^^


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## rydbyk (Feb 17, 2010)

iliveonnitro said:


> Just eat. You're putting far too much thought into this.
> 
> Water + real food. There really is no other substitute during training rides. Everything else really is a waste of money and typically tastes bad.
> 
> Try PB&J, or PB&Honey.


Umm...that does not help much.

I am not so sure this is the correct info either. Maybe you are correct and possibly this works for you, but since my OP, I have done a bit more research (from unbiased sources) and it pretty much all says otherwise.

"Just eat" seems nice in theory, but I am not sure my body will react in a positive fashion if I mindlessly shove "real food" into my system at any given time. I guess you would suggest that I have a t-bone steak in a zip lock bag perhaps to take along for the ride? 

I really don't get hungry until about hour 5 or so when using carb mix. I am pretty sure that may be a bit too late to hit the system with protein to fight off muscle catabolism. My question was WHEN not WHAT.


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## iliveonnitro (Feb 19, 2006)

rydbyk said:


> Umm...that does not help much.
> 
> I am not so sure this is the correct info either. Maybe you are correct and possibly this works for you, but since my OP, I have done a bit more research (from unbiased sources) and it pretty much all says otherwise.
> 
> ...


You think manufactured crap is going to be better for you than real food? This is not a theory.

I gave you suggestions on what to eat. You don't have to be ignorant about it by suggesting you put a steak into your back pocket.

Peanut butter and jelly sandwhiches, peanut butter and honey, throw banana slices onto it. Hell, even a ham and cheese sandwhich will work just fine if you eat it within the first couple hours. To be honest, real food is almost always better than carb mix (or Gu/powerbars/etc) during training.

No matter how much you eat, your will always catabolize muscle, regardless of how much protein you ingest. Some people argue that protein isn't important during exercise at all, but only important afterward. The main importance is caloric intake, primarily in the form of sugar/carbs.

If you only care about "when," which truthfully is only half the equation, then the answer is: starting at 45min for a constant state of glycogen storage. If you aren't going too hard, though, you can push it back to 1.5-2 hours maximum. But like I said, this is for carbs. You don't "need" protein during exercise.

Another thing to think about: tooth decay due to a constant intake of sugary drinks with a dry mouth for long periods of time. Another bonus of water is that it not only doesn't add to the sugar problem, but it can rinse away sugar.


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## estone2 (Sep 25, 2005)

+1 on nitro... OP, synthetic imitations of the real thing cannot work as well as the real thing, by definition.


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## PhysioJoe (May 6, 2008)

estone2 said:


> +1 on nitro... OP, synthetic imitations of the real thing cannot work as well as the real thing, by definition.


I think you are forgetting the fact that "synthetic imitations" were made with the assumption that the person has a "real food" diet when they are not training. Therefore, gels etc do not need fiber, protein, fat, etc. Anyone with a half decent diet will be getting all that when they arent riding. Why not just take in the easiest thing to digest, whatever will give you fuel quickest, easiest, and worry about real food when you arent going fast?

I completely disagree with nitro. This is coming from someone who has tried everything on rides (being a broke student had something to do with that!). I have eaten sandwiches, raisins, fig newtons, bananas, tortillas with random things smeared on them, bagels, gummies, rice krispy treats, homemade granola, you get the idea!!

N=1 here, but NONE of them helps me ride as well as gatorade, powerbars, or gu. Any of those three things helps me feel my best. I think my list above proves I have tried plenty of "real food," and my stomach isnt even sensetive. I simply ride better, eat easier, and feel better at the end of a ride. Hands down. 

If you really wanna be eating a PB&J with 6-8+ grams of fat at 30 mph, more power to ya. I just prefer to absorb my carbs before the end of the ride ;-)

-Physiojoe


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## Andrea138 (Mar 10, 2008)

The answer depends on your digestive system, your exercise intensity, how your taste changes throughout a race, and any number of other very individual needs. 

Personally, I fall somewhere in between the previous two posters- the shorter & higher intensity the effort, the more likely I am to rely on things like powdered drink mix and gels. Longer, lower intensity events, I start adding in real food like PB&J and salty things (with an occasional shot of gel from a flask in between). 

Likewise, there are some people that will give you the answer, "I used X powdered supplement ONLY for a 24 hour race and thrived," whereas others eat ham sandwiches during a 2 hour event. There isn't a right or wrong answer or magic bullet that works for everyone. You have to figure it out in training.


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## sdeeer (Aug 12, 2008)

The science answer on Protein.

Durring endurance (aerobic) exercise, AMPkinase is activated, so protein synthesis is turned off. All of the data I have seen (other than from Ivy's group) shows that protein does not help with performance durring the ride (exercise bout). Protein does help with satiety (fullness) when mixed into carb drinks.

Post exercsie, protein (and positive energy balance) are needed to recover from a muscle protein standpoint. Timing is importnant, but not crucial in younger adults. You "can" wait up to 2 or even 3 hours to get good protein in and get the "same" accute response. I have not seen long term data on that. I would suggest good protein and carbs (from real food) ASAP post workout. 

On the bike, fuel and hydration that are easy to digest are most important. From a science (lab) perspeive, there is not much data on "real food" regarding performance. But a mix of glucose and fructose seems to be the best. Asker Jeukendrup is one of the most knowledgable on the topic and jsut wrote an article:
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/19584605

The basics are mixing glucose and fructose with caffiene are the most beneficial by lowering RPE, which means the same watts feel easier.

And there is the obvious personal aspect. We had one subject suck on the caffiene trail because it made them sick. Two vomited durring the glucose only trial, and one supplement that made most go faster durring a TT had the worst taste.

On my personal note, PB durring the ride goes nowhere. I feel like it is sitting in my stomach. I use gatoraide + a bit of isopure for satiety, banana, animal crackers, bagels, and gels. 

The main point is you will always do better when hydrated and fueled (and not sick from what you are putting in) than on water only. And the longer the event, the more pronounced the difference.


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## Alex_Simmons/RST (Jan 12, 2008)

iliveonnitro said:


> No matter how much you eat, your will always catabolize muscle, regardless of how much protein you ingest.


Yes, and the catabolising is to do with the normal muscle damage. Catabolism of muscle proteins for the purpose of providing an alternative energy source will be most unlikely provided there is sufficient energy available from normal sources (i.e. CHO/FFA). 

IOW, just eat what you are capable of ingesting and enjoy and aim for 1-1.5 g CHO per kg body mass per hour.


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## JulieD (Oct 15, 2009)

Sour patch kids every 20 minutes with guacamole after 2 hours.


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## Andrea138 (Mar 10, 2008)

Ewwwww... lol! 

Earlier this year, at ~mile 65 of a 100 mile MTB race, I spotted a bowl of gummy bears on the table of an aid station. It looked like a bowl of precious gemstones, and I couldn't control myself from grabbing a handful and cramming them (along with the dirt & grime from my hands). They were a great boost at the time.


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## Creakyknees (Sep 21, 2003)

I've been considering mixing up a batch of mashed potatoes with seasoning, maybe a bit of cheese, and putting it into one of those re-usable food tubes that hiker stores sells.


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## Andrea138 (Mar 10, 2008)

That'd be nice because you could get it really salty... let me know how it turns out!


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## Argentius (Aug 26, 2004)

It's like that "dirt and worms" parfait they do with gummy worms, only, now with more real dirt!

When riding any kind of intensity, or if the weather is hot, I cannot stomach any sort of "solid food," it's all gu, carb-drinks, and candy. Red vines are the realest food I can handle (thye do have wheat flour!)

Protein during riding, I don't think it makes a difference. I have tried both solid and liquid protein, and it is pretty disgusting liguid, clif bars are bricks in my belly, and I don't feel like I'm any less tired.



Andrea138 said:


> Ewwwww... lol!
> 
> Earlier this year, at ~mile 65 of a 100 mile MTB race, I spotted a bowl of gummy bears on the table of an aid station. It looked like a bowl of precious gemstones, and I couldn't control myself from grabbing a handful and cramming them (along with the dirt & grime from my hands). They were a great boost at the time.


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