# Test Ride Checklist



## westekBike (Aug 10, 2009)

I know that the mantra for buying a bike, after getting the right fit, is to test ride the bike and go with what feels right for you.

I have a number of questions about test rides though...

How do I know what feels right if I don't already own a road bike? I only have my current 1992 (no typo!) Trek 820 MTB as a reference.

What should I do on a test ride to see if the bike is right for me? Is there a checklist I should be going through in my head to see if the bike is right for me?

What is acceptable for a test ride (time/distance)? These LBS just have a small parking lot. They aren't on a bike path. I don't know if I am getting a feel for a bike, riding around a parking lot for 5 minutes.

Thanks in advance for the advice!


----------



## Slim Chance (Feb 8, 2005)

You need a 30 minute ride to get a good idea of how a bike feels. Generally, after 30 minutes, you will know if it’s right or not, especially after riding a few bikes. Make sure that the shop does an initial seat height adjustment. Try to take it out on some side streets and hills, too, if possible. If there are no suitable roads around the shop, ask them if they will let you take the bike to another location. If they won’t, try another shop where you can adequately test the bike. Once you have decided on one or two bikes, try a longer ride of say, one hour. After that you should be able to discuss what other changes, such stem length, need to be addressed before the bike is right for you.


----------



## vec (Aug 10, 2009)

test ride as many bikes as you can and do what slim chance suggests. you will eventually get a feel for what bike is comfortable to you. the lbs should help you find a good size and adjust the seat and whatever else needed.


----------



## fireplug (Nov 19, 2008)

You really need to find a shop that will let you take it out more than a 5 min circle in the parking lot. I ran into the same problem when I was looking for my first bike. I was stuck between a C'Dale and Giant. The Giant dealer had a freshly paved "L" shaped parking lot and alley to test ride on while the C'Dale shop just asked for an ID and credit card to hold the bike and said "see you later." They did not care where I went or how long i was gone, they just wanted me to make sure I got the bike that fit me the best.

Even though the Giant seemed smoother than the C'Dale I bought the C'Dale because I knew how it would ride on the real roads. The lack of the test ride really made the difference for me.

When you are on the test ride make sure you try out all the different grips on the bike. A really try to focus on what type of riding you will be doing. And how each feels in the corners and on climbs. One thing that helped me was to take a few notes after each ride, after riding threee or more bikes in the same day the details kind of ran together.


----------



## westekBike (Aug 10, 2009)

I guess the possibility of a longer ride didn't occur to me, since no one ever offered. At the same time, in their defense, I haven't been a "real" customer to this point, just a looker. It did feel strange that I would be dropping over $1k on something I am trying to get a feel for in a parking lot.

All right then, if I get a bike for a decent ride, what then? I hear a lot about how the bike "feels", and I get that to a point, but that is a bit subjective for my ridiculously overanalytical mind 

Generally, on the short test rides I have taken, I will try different speeds (fast/slow), feel the shifting of the gears, the brakes, the general handling, the seat comfort, the ride position and comfort...to the best of my limited ability and time. What else should I look for? Is this really as subjective as I am hearing it is?


----------



## Slim Chance (Feb 8, 2005)

Yes, more or less that is what you should look for. After a 30-60 minute ride assess how your body feels. Do your arms or back hurt. Was it painful to ride the bike? Don’t worry about your butt if you‘re not used to riding. That you have to “break in”. Note that the geometry of the bikes you will ride will differ. Some will have a more upright position, while other are designed with racing in mind and yield a more stretched position.

Make sure you wear comfortable clothes. If you have bike shorts, wear them. If you know that you are going to buy them, maybe get them now. Might help with the test rides.


----------



## ewitz (Sep 11, 2002)

Based on your experience, you will get next to nothing out of your test ride.

The differences in wheels/tires/pressure and how well adjusted the bike was will likely determine which one you like better. Get the fit right and stick to a shop/brand that you trust and you will most likely be happy. Also, don't discount visual appeal, if you don't like the way it looks you won't be motivated to ride everytime that you see it.

I have spent thousands buying bikes without test rides (Look 585/Time VXRS) based simply on geometry and the reccommendation of the bike shop. Initial impressions wear off after a few weeks with a bike. It isn't until you log some serious miles and do some back and forth with other bikes and swapping known wheels that you can REALLY form an imformed opinion.

Even after many years of >10000 km I wouldn't trust a test ride so I forego them completely. Some bikes people rave about have not inspired passion in me, I disliked the Pinarello Prince after a few weeks but initial impressions were positive.


----------



## westekBike (Aug 10, 2009)

*Test Ride Results*

OK, with the above advice in hand, off I went to a LBS that carries Cannondale, Specialized and Giant over a long Friday lunch. I am greeted by a sales guy and I tell him that I am currently riding a mountain bike on roads/paths and would like to step up to a road bike in order to eventually get to riding centuries. I express my preference for Shimano 105 components over lower level sets and that I don't intend to do racing, just endurance. He asks my price range and I tell him that for the bike it is $1000-1300 give or take.

He does a cursory fit. He checks out top tube clearance, and with me on the hoods has me check out the eyeline between the bars and the front hub. He tells me that they should be on the same line as I look down. He suggests a first bike. I hand over my license and I he directs me on a short jaunt to a large set of parking lots and connecting backstreets so I can get a good feel for the bikes. I am feeling good that I can get a decent feel for the bikes (as much as I personally can) and I am off.

The first bike he suggests is a Specialized Sequoia Elite. It is a 2007, which I am not clear whether he points me to because he thinks I want a past year's model or it is the only one in my size. It is a comfortable ride, seems to absorb a lot of road vibrations and small bumps which is nice. Shifts smoothly with the 105 components, grippy brakes It has what I consider a sort of upright ride position. I don't have much experience with drops, but these feel sort of shallow and I don't feel very aerodynamic in them, just that I am leaning over. They feel close to my body even though my arms are not really bent much. I like the bike overall but I am not sure it is either the geometry of the bike or the fit that seem a little strange. 

I relate this information to the sales guy. I don't know if I described my review of the bike poorly or not, but he doesn't have a lot of feedback to offer to that. I ask him if there is anything else in my size to ride that maybe has a slightly more agressive ride position but is still not on the race side of the road. Also, I ask if he has something in a Cannondale to ride, since I really only have my lunch hour+ to do this today.

He says that would be the Cannondale Synapse. He shows me a Synapse 5, but they don't have it in my size either. Again, he points me to an older model. I am starting to think he wants me to be his clearance sale guy. It is a Synapse 1 (2007). He says it is virtually the same as the 2009 Synapse 5...all 105, same frame, etc. So I take this for a ride next.

The Synapse 1 instantly feels like a more agressive ride position, which I think I like better than the Sequoias. It clearly will take some getting used to as a change from my MTB position, but on the hoods and drops I think it feels better. I can't tell if it's because the Sequoia bars were just too close or not. The ride is not as smooth to me and I feel the little bumps that the Sequoia seemed to smooth over. The Synapse feels faster and lighter to me, like it has a higher top-end speed if I can get there.

The Sequoia had a triple and the Synapse is a compact. My guess is that I would prefer a triple as a newcomer in a non-flat territory. Both had 105 components but the Sequoia shifted more smoothly. I imagine that was a tuning thing and nothing else.

I asked if there was anything else I should see today and he suggested a Giant OCR A1 (again, not a 2009/2010! what is the deal). I didn't see it but he described it as a good bike at the near $1000 price. It was at one of their other stores and he is having it sent over this weekend so I can try it out if I want to.

The '07 Sequoia I rode was priced at near $1000. The Synapse 1 was the same price as the '09 Synapse 5, which I did not comprehend at all. I asked him why these '07s were still here if they were so great? He didn't really have an answer for that. In the case of the Synapse 1, I think it's because no one will buy a 2-3 year old model when they can get the newest one for the same price. Not sure in the case of the Sequoia.

So, overall I think it went well from the perspective of getting a feel for a couple of different bikes. I don't know if it is the time of year, this shop, the state of their inventory or what, but it seems strange that I didn't ride a current model year bike. I asked when the 2010 Cannondale Synapse were coming out just to see what he would say...he said it could be a few months...hmm.

I think I will go back and ride the Giant he suggested and then just ask again if there is anything else in my price range that I can ride. I think the more the better. The offer the BG Fit program in the store, which I asked if he would throw in if I bought a bike and was somewhat doubtful he would get approval for that. Sheesh.. $75 service that costs them nothing. That didn't give me confidence.

Anyway, your thoughts on all this would be appreciated. Thanks for reading this long message...I just wanted to bounce my experience off others here.


----------



## Slim Chance (Feb 8, 2005)

Some shops do end up with miscellaneous older bikes. It’s not unusual not to find a great selection at this time of year. Most of the current year bikes (‘09) are gone and the new year models (‘10) haven’t arrived. A friend of mine is going through the same thing. Unless the older models are significantly higher speced than the ‘09-‘10 models, than they should be sold for less.

You may have to wait a few weeks for the new models to make their way into the store. Be patient and keep test riding other bikes until you find the one that feels “just right.” 

BTW, the Synapse 5 also has a more upright position that what would be considered a race bike. It’s the one my friend is waiting for.


----------



## PJ352 (Dec 5, 2007)

Interesting topic and some interesting posts, but IMO not all good advice. 

Noobs almost universally offer that they'd never know a good fit from bad, but after they go for some rides and post, they always relay their impressions clearly, as you have. You may not know _why_ the bars felt close to you on the Sequoia, but you knew what you felt, and that's part of why it's important to go through this process.

My take on this bike shop is that it's fairly small, obviously has limited stock and (like some I've dealt with) occasionally buys 2-3 yr old models for a reduced price from their distributor. IMO, in this economic climate, unless the bikes are marked down aggressively they aren't a good deal. Many brands (Specialized included) has actually dropped some of their 2010 prices. 

If you're interested in the Giant, by all means go back and ride it. You'll gain some experience in riding another brand/ model and then decide from there what to do next. FWIW, I'd branch out to other shops and other brands/ models. That'll raise your odds of finding the right bike for you, and there are still some good candidates in your price range that haven't been mentioned yet.

Lastly, the Specialized 3D BG FIT system has three levels, with the first being basic, second comprehensive (incl basic) and third frontal (and incl basic and comprehensive). The cost of the first is about $75 but it goes up from there, with their 3D FIT system costing around $350, so maybe that's why the shop employee hedged on agreeing to include it with the bike purchase.


----------



## westekBike (Aug 10, 2009)

Have I picked a bad time of year? This is probably the largest bike store in Cincinnati (for what that's worth) and either they didnt have a bike in my size to try besides these or for some reason are pushing me to older model bikes. My guess is that if they had 2009 bikes for me to ride they would have me ride them.

My plan was to ride the MTB all summer to get to a decent level of fitness and then buy a new bike at the end of the season when hopefully it would be on a discount and maybe the 2010's would be available to see as well. This doesn't give me a lot of hope that smaller bike shops around the city will have any selection either. 

I don't want to buy a bike just because that's the one they had in my size to ride that day, and I don't want to ride a bike sight unseen either. Do I need to wait until spring? That would be depressing.


----------



## PJ352 (Dec 5, 2007)

westekBike said:


> Have I picked a bad time of year? This is probably the largest bike store in Cincinnati (for what that's worth) and either they didnt have a bike in my size to try besides these or for some reason are pushing me to older model bikes. My guess is that if they had 2009 bikes for me to ride they would have me ride them.
> 
> My plan was to ride the MTB all summer to get to a decent level of fitness and then buy a new bike at the end of the season when hopefully it would be on a discount and maybe the 2010's would be available to see as well. This doesn't give me a lot of hope that smaller bike shops around the city will have any selection either.
> 
> I don't want to buy a bike just because that's the one they had in my size to ride that day, and I don't want to ride a bike sight unseen either. Do I need to wait until spring? That would be depressing.


I don't think you picked a bad time of year, just an in between time for model years. But beyond that, just because a bike shop is big doesn't necessarily mean it'll have what you want/ need. I ride a 52 cm frame and am always amazed when a bike shop actually has one on the floor. 

IMO you should branch out to other shops (call ahead, but drive a little if need be). For the most part, the 2010's are available, but you might have to put some time and effort into locating the brands/ models of interest.

Did you ride the Giant?


----------



## westekBike (Aug 10, 2009)

PJ352 said:


> I don't think you picked a bad time of year, just an in between time for model years. But beyond that, just because a bike shop is big doesn't necessarily mean it'll have what you want/ need. I ride a 52 cm frame and am always amazed when a bike shop actually has one on the floor.
> 
> IMO you should branch out to other shops (call ahead, but drive a little if need be). For the most part, the 2010's are available, but you might have to put some time and effort into locating the brands/ models of interest.
> 
> Did you ride the Giant?


I haven't ridden the Giant yet. They are going to transport it over from another one of their stores which won't happen until Monday.

Based on the bikes I have ridden so far, it seems I am in the 52cm frame range myself. I guess that's not in the sweet spot, eh? How can a buy a bike when they don't have the right size I need to ride? What a pain.


----------



## PJ352 (Dec 5, 2007)

westekBike said:


> I haven't ridden the Giant yet. They are going to transport it over from another one of their stores which won't happen until Monday.
> 
> Based on the bikes I have ridden so far, it seems I am in the 52cm frame range myself. I guess that's not in the sweet spot, eh? How can a buy a bike when they don't have the right size I need to ride? What a pain.


No, it's far from the 'sweet spot' and it is a pain, but it's not insurmountable. One thing you can do is basically what you're doing (or trying to do) - ride as many bikes as you can, then decide which felt the best. I'm not talking components, or ride or handling (or color ) - strictly fit and feel. From there, you can check the geo chart for that bike and compare it to some others. It's not the ideal method, but if you're careful to read the numbers correctly, you'll be very close, thus minimizing your odds of getting it wrong.


----------



## westekBike (Aug 10, 2009)

*Web Shopping*

OK, so in the interest of broadening out the search and also the fact that I just won't have time to do test rides this week, I am doing some web shopping. I am searching around the Cincinnati area in order to see what other smaller bike shops have in the area of brands and then trying to find the bike in their lineup that is a candidate.

I am looking for a comfortable ride, but not devoid of road-feel. I am noob to road cycling, but I plan to stick with it for a long time because I have found that I love it. Therefore, I am targeting bikes from manufacturers that have an "endurance" bike over a "racing", "elite", "pro" or other high-end model. The $1100-1400 target MSRP/sale price range keeps me out of those bikes anyway, and with good reason. I know what I don't know at least. I want something that will be kind to me early on, but has an agressive enough geometry that I won't get annoyed with the bike in the next 2 years. I am looking for an '09 or '10 preferably.

I have a number of bikes that I think I want to ride, in the order I discovered them from a dealer/manu website. These shops are spread out all over the area, so I am trying to get them in a priority to visit. I would appreciate your knowledgeable feedback on them against this and previous messages in the thread where I "try" to describe what I am looking for.

2010 Specialized Secteur Elite Compact $1400
2010 Trek 2.1 $1369
2009 Cannondale Synapse Alloy 5 $1329
2009 Giant Defy 1 $1400
2009 Jamis Ventura Race $1350
2009 Scott Speedster S20 $1375 retail

And if you have any suggestions on bikes like these "not to miss", I am a good listener 
BTW, all of you are great for offering your feedback!


----------



## Nubster (Jul 8, 2009)

I am new to all this so take my input for what it is worth, but I think you might be limiting yourself a little. It sounds like you have a preconceived notion of what a "race" bike is and in fact I think that you might be a little wrong. Please correct me if you have already ridden some more aggressive bikes and found you did not like them but I think if you have not and you do give them a try you will find that they are still comfortable bikes to ride and if you do try a couple out and find that you are comfortable on them then you will open yourself up to a number of other options to choose from. Please, if I am off base here tell me.


----------



## westekBike (Aug 10, 2009)

Nubster said:


> I am new to all this so take my input for what it is worth, but I think you might be limiting yourself a little. It sounds like you have a preconceived notion of what a "race" bike is and in fact I think that you might be a little wrong. Please correct me if you have already ridden some more aggressive bikes and found you did not like them but I think if you have not and you do give them a try you will find that they are still comfortable bikes to ride and if you do try a couple out and find that you are comfortable on them then you will open yourself up to a number of other options to choose from. Please, if I am off base here tell me.


Heck no, you're not off base! You raise an interesting point and I appreciate it. I guess what I am trying to avoid is buying "more bike than I can handle" if you will. My concept of a race bike is one that is set up for speed over comfort. I would think it is going to drop off/exchange parts that are there to make you want to ride longer in favor of parts that make the bike quicker and lighter. My guess is that it would be set up to handle very nimbly in the hands of an experienced rider at the expense of forgiving a noob mistake in a sharp turn or a downhill. I would guess that the gearing is set up for those who are already in good shape and don't need help getting up hills or adding power on a flat stretch. I would see it rewarding the rider who spends all their time in the drops instead of on the hoods, and I would see that rider stretched further forward in an agressive aerodynamic tuck, again, for the bottom line speed.

I haven't ridden many bikes at this point, so my conceptions of how these more agressive bikes ride may be dead wrong. I just seem to detect a theme in the marketing of many of these manufacturers that based on their descriptions of their different lines, where I am today I may be better suited to these types of bikes.

Secteur vs. Allez
Synapse vs. CAAD-9
etc. etc.

This is a lot of money for me to spend on a bike at this point in my experience. I just don't want to get it all in my head that I am a great rider and then buy a bike that is beyond me and then I am unhappy and/or uncomfortable. That's my thought process. Feel free to shoot some holes in it if you like or let me know that it makes sense. My feelings won't get hurt either way!


----------



## hrumpole (Jun 17, 2008)

I think you'll find for the most part that there's a lot to be said for having a better bike than you are a rider, in that you'll grow into it. If the bike is twitchy, you'll notice immediately. You will, though, get used to that over time and "twitchy" will come to mean "responsive". The secteur, roubaix and synapse are "plush" rides, that -can- be made more aggressive by flipping the stem down, and will turn faster with a little body english. I have a roubaix comp and for the kind of riding that I like to do it's perfect. I'm a huge fan of the plush bike. If you're going to race, you may want the caad5/allez type feel, which will steer a little more sharply. At least, that was my experience in the test riding phase. But it's my own view that if you just like to go out and ride, the plush line is the way to go--at least it was for me.


----------



## ZoSoSwiM (Mar 7, 2008)

A well fitted race bike can sometimes be nearly as comfortable as a less aggressive bike. The plush bike "craze" has caught on and now it's commonly accepted that comfortable doesn't sacrifice speed.
You might want to look at a Specialized Roubaix. A model a few years older might meet your price range well. 

In an ideal situation you could ride all the bikes blind not knowing the make or model. Base your purchase purely off feel. 

The Allez will give you more speed and if it's setup and fit to you well it'll be nearly as comfortable. 

Speed is the end result of the engine though.. Don't worry about that as much at this point.

Get the bike you will want to ride every day and not make excuses not to ride it.


----------



## Nubster (Jul 8, 2009)

westekBike said:


> Heck no, you're not off base! You raise an interesting point and I appreciate it. I guess what I am trying to avoid is buying "more bike than I can handle" if you will. My concept of a race bike is one that is set up for speed over comfort. I would think it is going to drop off/exchange parts that are there to make you want to ride longer in favor of parts that make the bike quicker and lighter. My guess is that it would be set up to handle very nimbly in the hands of an experienced rider at the expense of forgiving a noob mistake in a sharp turn or a downhill. I would guess that the gearing is set up for those who are already in good shape and don't need help getting up hills or adding power on a flat stretch. I would see it rewarding the rider who spends all their time in the drops instead of on the hoods, and I would see that rider stretched further forward in an agressive aerodynamic tuck, again, for the bottom line speed.
> 
> I haven't ridden many bikes at this point, so my conceptions of how these more agressive bikes ride may be dead wrong. I just seem to detect a theme in the marketing of many of these manufacturers that based on their descriptions of their different lines, where I am today I may be better suited to these types of bikes.
> 
> ...


I hear ya. I went the opposite way and wanted a more aggressive bike even though I doubt I ever race and even if I do it will only be in a casual type race, nothing to crazy. I have an Allez and to me it is not too aggressive but not too relaxed. It is kinda a midway geometry. The CAAD9 is the same. Not all out race but certainly not a relaxed bike either. If it were me, I would at least take a couple of the more aggressive bikes out for a spin and see what you think. Keep in mind that they can be made to be more relaxed to start and returned to a more aggressive stance later if you decide to go that route. As far as being too much bike, I was kinda in the same boat and now I think my bike might not be enough bike. Some simple parts upgrades will help with that but if I knew then what I knew now I would have bought a bike that was more than I needed off the bat and grew into it. But in the end, it is how you feel on the bike that is important. As far as price, I think you will be pleasantly surprised to find that there are a number of decent "race" bikes that are in your price range. The Allez and CAAD9 being two of them. Bottom line, a bike you don't like will not do you any good cause you'll never ride it. Ride your own ride and good luck on your search. It is a huge PITA so doing what your doing is the right way and in the end I am sure you'll end up with a great bike for you.


----------



## PJ352 (Dec 5, 2007)

I think the bikes you have listed under 'Web Shopping' are near perfect and I'd be hard pressed to add any to it. Contrary to what some posters have mentioned re: adding race bikes to the mix, you already have two - the Jamis Ventura Race and the Scott Speedster. And I might add the Allez to the list to make three.

As far as race bikes versus more relaxed, your description in an earlier post wasn't that far off. I wouldn't say the race bikes sacrifice comfort for speed, it's more that (generally speaking) saddle to bar drop is greater, putting the rider in a more aero position. Along with that, geo changes somewhat - wheelbase shrinks and trail drops, both of which make for a quicker handling bike. Depending on the degrees of change (and rider preference), some will catagorize the bikes as twitchy, others will say responsive, or lively. Conversely, the more relaxed geo lengthens wheelbase and increases trail, so rider inputs are more stable/ predictable - _or_ slow, again depending on rider preference. 

I agree with the others that suggest you ride both, but as I already mentioned, two, maybe three with the Allez are already on your list. With any luck at all you're going to be trying out a few bikes and within a short period of time your impressions are going to get muddled, so I suggest you take some time to jot down your thoughts soon after each ride.


----------



## westekBike (Aug 10, 2009)

*Update*

After riding a few other bikes and getting some impressions, I believe that the '09 Sequoia Elite I rode is the right mix for me. It is at the right pricepoint ($1199) where I can get good components (105) and it is undeniably a very comfortable ride/geo that can be made slightly more aggressive if I need/want to go that route later on. I think it will fit me for a few years until I either lose interest (ha!) or am ready for the next level.

I had ridden an '07 model earlier, but it was a 52cm and felt cramped between seat and bars to me. This '09 is a 54 which is much more comfortable. One question is, how much clearance does there need to be between top tube and giblets? It is pretty close on the 54, (less than 1") but the rest of the fit seems right so I am a bit confused.

The LBS "fit" me to the bike and said that everything looks good as far as my position on the bike, seat height, reach, etc. Is this enough to be sure? I could get the Specialized BG Fit done at one of 3 levels, but I would have to pay for that. Any experience with this? Is anything less than this really a "fit"?

My wife is wondering why I haven't bought the bike yet, but I just don't want to plunk down the cash until I am sure this is the right one, you know?


----------



## PJ352 (Dec 5, 2007)

westekBike said:


> After riding a few other bikes and getting some impressions, I believe that the '09 Sequoia Elite I rode is the right mix for me. It is at the right pricepoint ($1199) where I can get good components (105) and it is undeniably a very comfortable ride/geo that can be made slightly more aggressive if I need/want to go that route later on. I think it will fit me for a few years until I either lose interest (ha!) or am ready for the next level.
> 
> I had ridden an '07 model earlier, but it was a 52cm and felt cramped between seat and bars to me. This '09 is a 54 which is much more comfortable. One question is, how much clearance does there need to be between top tube and giblets? It is pretty close on the 54, (less than 1") but the rest of the fit seems right so I am a bit confused.
> 
> ...


Don't fret over standover clearance. 'Some' is fine. Back in the 80's (and beyond) when it was used more as a point of reference it was near meaningless and now, in this world of compact geo (sloping TT's) it remains so. The only advantage I see is that the sloping TT allows riders needing a longer TT more options because standover is less, but from what you're offering, that doesn't apply to you.

To answer your next question re: the LBS's opinion that the fit 'looks good', no, it's not enough to be sure. The only way to _really_ be sure is to ride the bike for a duration of time. The longer you ride, the more likely a 'weak link' in the fit will surface. Until then, assuming you have some confidence in the LBS's fitter, I would weigh what they say/ think with how you feel while riding the bike. Even the best fitters need feedback from the rider, so this is no different. Bottom line? If you're comfortable on the bike and confident in its handling, that's about as good as it gets. And remember, this is an initial fitting, so it's likely you'll be back for tweaks before too long.

Continuing that train of thought, I'd shelve paying more for the Spec 3D FIT right now. Definitely keep it in the back of your mind for the future, after you've got more miles and time in the saddle and built some endurance. Fit evolves over time, and yours will as well, so it's best to use this fitting as a starting point, rather than investing in a more elaborate one that will also evolve over time. JMO.


----------



## westekBike (Aug 10, 2009)

*Epilogue*

OK, so it's been awhile but I wanted to update and start to wrap on my thread.

I was all ready to go pick up my '09 Spec Sequoia Elite that I had put a hold on, but something was holding me back. The bike felt comfortable enough, but the fact that the LBS kept seemingly discouraging me from a fitting simply because I told them that the bike "felt fine to me". I even tried to get them to do the 2D Spec BG Fit and take a little off the price of the bike, but they wanted none of it.

With this unease, I started browsing around again and found another LBS. I called them up and they actually encouraged me to come in and get a fitting done on the trainer. I explained that I was a noob and would not likely give them great feedback. They made me feel very at ease and instead of making me think I was nuts for wanting a formal fitting, they told me they are very hesitant to sell a bike without one. They sell Cervelo, BMC, Masi, Felt, Perlee, Bianchi and Veritas. They sell road and tri bikes with no kids stuff and no hybrids.

So I went in and got a fitting on the trainer. It was a great experience. Based on the brands and shop setup, I expected to be turned off and secretly laughed at. The fitter was very helpful, gave suggestions, asked lots of questions and adjusted with each answer to the point that I felt great on the bike. Then, he matched up the fitting results to the geo of the bikes they sell and found me a fit in my price range. I told him I wanted something for endurance and with a 105 group.

The result was the 2010 Felt Z85 in a 51cm frame. I ordered it on the spot and after two grueling weeks of waiting it came in. I picked it up on Friday and after many a rain delay I was able to take it out yesterday. It fits like a glove. I have to say I feel like a chump! I have been busting me arse all spring and summer on my old Trek MTB getting fit. When I hit 15 mph I thought I was cool. Now I feel like I can fly and 25 mph was not tough to reach. Man, it is light and it is fast. Please understand the relativity of these comments, oh carbon-framed ones! 

I need to get used to the roadie riding position and the seat. I also need to take it back in because at the shop they really wanted to see me ride it before I took it, but I could not wait. Even though it was raining, I took it just to stare at it all evening!

I took a quick (I can say that now) 12 mile ride yesterday just to get a feel for it, the new MTB shoes and SPD pedals. These shoes/pedals are the 2nd set. I tried Speedplay light action with some road shoes on my MTB last week. Hated the platform cleats, the icy float and the lack of platform when I need it. Also got a Cateye Stada Cadence computer. So far so good there. Cadence will be a big plus to have at my fingers.

BTW, after  the fitting and bike selection I told the guy who did my fit about the Sequoia Elite I had on hold. He put the measurements in to his fit system. The bike I had on hold was a 54cm frame. He would have recommended a 49cm frame in that bike. Whether that's exact or not, the 54 probably would have been the wrong choice. The fitting was $125, but they give back 5% off the bike towards it. All in, I got this bike and fitting for the same price as that wrong-size Sequoia Elite. And frankly, I love the looks of the Z85 much more. 

I didn't get a chance to ask about it, but they changed out the stock Felt seat for a Fizik Arione Wing Flex seat, which I believe is an upgrade based on the retail I saw on it. I think it was the seat I ended up liking the best at the end of the fitting. The Z85 is a new model and so far seems like a great bike. 

I don't want to get heckled , so pictures are here...


----------



## PJ352 (Dec 5, 2007)

Congrats on the new bike!! :thumbsup:

Considering you somehow got a pro fitting out of them for the price of the Felt, ya done better than good!! Seriously, it sounds like a top shelf shop and your bike is_ very _cool. Enjoy and ride safe. :thumbsup:


----------



## westekBike (Aug 10, 2009)

PJ352 said:


> Congrats on the new bike!! :thumbsup:



Thanks PJ. I appreciate your consistent guidance through the process. It has been very helpful. I have no doubt the result would not have been as pleasant without your advice.


----------



## T-shirt (Aug 15, 2004)

westekBike,

What a great experience and good fortune. It warms my heart. Congratulations.

Your bike looks really cool, and you can't go wrong with that 105 group.

Enjoy,
Tshirt


----------



## Hank Stamper (Sep 9, 2009)

yeah, sweet bike. Sounds/looks like in the end you pulled off a best case scenario. Good for you.

My tid bit with regard to test rides: I only realized my biggest mistake after the fact. I was paying a lot of attention to smoothness of the gear changes....which is important.......but I was mistakenly thinking "this bike blows" when I happened to be testing one that didn't shift so smoothly. In reality it had nothing to do with the bike and was only a reflection of how well the shop had adjusted things prior to the test ride. It all work out well for me (by mostly luck) but I could have easily passed on a great bike because of a perceived problem that wasn't a problem at all or choosen garbage because it just happened to be adjusted well.


----------



## labmonkey526 (Aug 9, 2009)

ewitz said:


> Based on your experience, you will get next to nothing out of your test ride.
> 
> The differences in wheels/tires/pressure and how well adjusted the bike was will likely determine which one you like better. Get the fit right and stick to a shop/brand that you trust and you will most likely be happy. Also, don't discount visual appeal, if you don't like the way it looks you won't be motivated to ride everytime that you see it.
> 
> ...


+1 

That about hits the nail on the head! But congrats on the new ride!


----------



## westekBike (Aug 10, 2009)

OK, I love the new bike. I have been on three short rides of 12, 24 and 11 miles to this point. I make small adjustments to the bike over short rides each time until it feels optimal.

However, let's just say I am having some..uh..numbness issues in the groinal region. The original seat was a Fizik, which is flat front-to-back down the center and rounded from the center to the sides. Perfect for some people, but apparently just the right shape to place pressure in the wrong spots for me. I went back to the LBS and they swapped me for a Syncros seat that is flatter overall and has a depression in the center front-to-back. My ride yesterday was more comfortable and much less numb, but I still think over time it may not be a sustainable seat solution.

I understand this problem is not uncommon, and at the risk of having a bunch of people tell me the seat they have now and that they don't have a problem with numbness...any advice?


----------



## iherald (Oct 13, 2005)

That's a nice looking bike, and thanks for keeping us up to date on your search. I've done close to 20 000km on my bike, so I forget what it's like when it's a new thing! Keep up the riding.


----------



## iherald (Oct 13, 2005)

I bought a seat with a cut out in it, and it seemed to work. I have my orignal seat flat and it had the same shape yours hast and had the same issue you're describing. Now I have a seat with a cut out and no issues.


----------



## PJ352 (Dec 5, 2007)

westekBike said:


> OK, I love the new bike. I have been on three short rides of 12, 24 and 11 miles to this point. I make small adjustments to the bike over short rides each time until it feels optimal.
> 
> However, let's just say I am having some..uh..numbness issues in the groinal region. The original seat was a Fizik, which is flat front-to-back down the center and rounded from the center to the sides. Perfect for some people, but apparently just the right shape to place pressure in the wrong spots for me. I went back to the LBS and they swapped me for a Syncros seat that is flatter overall and has a depression in the center front-to-back. My ride yesterday was more comfortable and much less numb, but I still think over time it may not be a sustainable seat solution.
> 
> I understand this problem is not uncommon, and at the risk of having a bunch of people tell me the seat they have now and that they don't have a problem with numbness...any advice?


From what you've previously offered about your LBS, it sounds like one of the better shops in regards to fitting riders, so I'm not sure 'standard' advice applies here, but FWIW, I'll offer some thoughts.

Angles are deceiving in pics, but looking at the pic of your Felt posted a couple of days ago it looks like your original saddle tip sloped down slightly, so (if I'm seeing things correctly) I'm surprised you haven't experienced hand pain/ numbness as well.

IMO before swapping saddles (any further), recheck the position of the current one, because your weight should be on your sit bones rather than further forward, so considering you're still experiencing numbness with the new saddle, some additional adjustments may be necessary. First, recheck tilt. If it slopes down at the tip, level it, and if it's level, tilt it _slightly_ up (just noticable). Based on your recent experiences, you'll most likely know relatively quickly whether or not this adjustment minimized or alleviated the numbness. If it disappears, great! But if it improves slightly, I'd consider asking the LBS to raise the bars about 1 cm, because that may lessen the pressure. The idea is to shift your weight back to the sit bones. Knee over pedal spindle (KOPS) was probably set during the initial fitting, but ask that they recheck that as well, unless you know that was done when they installed the new saddle.

Make the seat tilt adjustment first, then go for a few rides before considering other actions, including raising the bars.


----------



## ewitz (Sep 11, 2002)

westekBike said:


> three short rides of 12, 24 and 11 miles


Yeah, I have some advice. Give the equipment a chance before swapping it out.

Most people will ride a saddle for weeks before they can make an informed decision. I'm sure they were happy to swap it out for a cheaper saddle.


----------



## PJ352 (Dec 5, 2007)

ewitz said:


> Yeah, I have some advice. Give the equipment a chance before swapping it out.
> 
> Most people will ride a saddle for weeks before they can make an informed decision. I'm sure they were happy to swap it out for a cheaper saddle.


I'd agree with you if the OP posted that _my butt is sore after 'X' amount of time riding_. But numbness is caused by pressure, and without taking some action, it's highly unlikely it'll just go away.

I suspect it's as much a fit issue as a saddle issue, but that's a guess.


----------



## westekBike (Aug 10, 2009)

ewitz said:


> Yeah, I have some advice. Give the equipment a chance before swapping it out.
> 
> Most people will ride a saddle for weeks before they can make an informed decision. I'm sure they were happy to swap it out for a cheaper saddle.


Hey, thanks for nothing. Maybe you want to ride numb for weeks until parts fall off, but I don't. And a $150 saddle is of no use to me unless I can ride on it. 

Perhaps you should go back to lurking ewitz. I still haven't shaved my legs yet, so you probably shouldn't waste your time on this thread.


----------



## Hank Stamper (Sep 9, 2009)

If the numbness is with 'that' area.....I would have to attribute it to angle or maybe position and would explore that before the new saddle option a new saddle.
I've only rode a few road bike saddles myself so it's not as if I know that I'm talking about here.....but from one saddle to the other there's really nothing that I can see differentiating one from the other in that area. Although I suppose that numbness could be caused by circulation in another area being cut off in which case the difference from one saddle to another would matter.


----------

