# Spoke Tension - Kinlin XR-270



## cdhbrad (Feb 18, 2003)

I am finishing my first attempt at building a set of wheels and decided to buy the Park spoke tensionmeter (I am an admitted Bike Tool Junkie) to check the spoke tension. I am wondering what average spoke tensions I should be trying to achieve on the Kinlin XR-270 / Sapim CXray spoke combination I am using? Front and Rear are both 2X all the way around, with 20 Front and 24 Rear, if that matters. If some of you who have built wheels with this rim/spoke combo and check tensions with a meter wouldn't mind sharing your target numbers, it would be most appreciated. 

I have some comparable wheels, though with the XR-300 rim, I can measure for comparison and guess that I should deflate the tires before taking any measurements correct? Thanks for the help.


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## Zen Cyclery (Mar 10, 2009)

You should be shooting for 115-120 kgf per spoke. On the Park tensionmeter, this will be a 14.5-15. This will be for the front wheel and rear DS. The rear NDS tension should be approximately half that but it can vary a bit depending on hub type/freehub/and lacing choice (heads in/out). If you gave us your exact set up we could steer you in a more precise direction.


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## cdhbrad (Feb 18, 2003)

Thanks for the reply, that will get me started. The hubs I used were Novatec A291SB, 20 hole, on the Front and A292SB, 24 hole, on the Rear. Not as much flange width as on the White Industries based wheels I have had built for me in the past, but I didn't want to break the bank on hubs with my first try at wheelbuilding. As I mentioned above, both front and rear are laced 2X on both sides, so there would be an even number of spokes with heads in/out on both sides of each wheel. 

I appreciate your sharing this information with me as its difficult to come by specifics otherwise.


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## rruff (Feb 28, 2006)

Err on the high side of tension on the DS... the rims can take it.


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## cdhbrad (Feb 18, 2003)

Thanks for the tip. My tensionmeter arrived yesterday and I worked on the front wheel last night. I thought it was pretty close to what was recommended above based on twanging the spokes.....boy was I wrong. Mine were only 50-60% of what both of you have suggested. So much for using my untrained musical ear to test spoke tensions. I have the front pretty close to the suggested 115-120 kgf and could still easily add tension, so can tell they aren't yet too tight. I can now tell by feeling the rear that I've got a long way to go there too.


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## Zen Cyclery (Mar 10, 2009)

cdhbrad- When I first started building higher end wheels I was quite surprised to be taking them up to such high tension. You just have to put trust in the parts you are using and know that they are going to hold. Keep us posted on how the re-tensioning goes. Good luck!


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## cdhbrad (Feb 18, 2003)

I don't have any question about the parts working. I've been riding these spokes and rims for at least three years and know they are durable. I was just surprised at the difference between what I thought I could "feel" and what the meter read. Being off by 50% or more was eye opening. Buying the tensionmeter was well worth the investment. I appreciate both rruff and you taking the time to share some building tips with me.


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## cdhbrad (Feb 18, 2003)

Zen and rfuff: Finished my wheels this past weekend. Thanks for all the tips. I prepped the spoke holes using a countersink as Ron suggested and applied grease to the inside of each hole before beginning to lace and tension so everything went together smoothly. Brought them to the front and rear tensions you both suggested, stress relieving every time I increased tensions or adjusted the dishing, and am very happy with the results. The weights before rim strips, etc. were: Front: 636, Rear: 892. Total: 1528 which I didn't think was too bad since I wasn't worrying about component weights as I selected the parts. These are my first wheels with the XR-270 and I've ridden them about 25 miles finding that they are very comfortable. Hope to try them out on the Wed. Hammerfest if it doesn't rain tonight. Thanks again for taking time to share your expertise and answer all my questions. Here are some pictures of finished set:


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## heedongyee (Nov 29, 2010)

Zen Cyclery said:


> You should be shooting for 115-120 kgf per spoke. On the Park tensionmeter, this will be a 14.5-15. This will be for the front wheel and rear DS. The rear NDS tension should be approximately half that but it can vary a bit depending on hub type/freehub/and lacing choice (heads in/out). If you gave us your exact set up we could steer you in a more precise direction.


I'm having a similar wheelset built up at my LBS (XR300, Pillar blades 20F/24R, Novatec road front and track rear hubs). I went in today armed with this info on the Park tensionmeter, saying I'd need around 15. My man at the LBS said that was nowhere near high tension, pulled out the Park tensionmeter, and it had increments up to 100 or above, I didn't see exactly. :idea: Is it possible his meter is indicated in kgf rather than the Park tensionmeter units you mentioned? I want to communicate my specs unambiguously before I hand my parts over to him.

BTW those wheels turned out great, cdhbrad!


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## rruff (Feb 28, 2006)

Congratulations on your first build!


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## TomH (Oct 6, 2008)

My park tensionmeter was very sticky when new, Id suggest you lube it up a little bit.. i got quite different readings after getting it to slide properly.


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## cdhbrad (Feb 18, 2003)

The builder at your LBS and you may be having a little communication issue. The Park tensionmeter has a scale on the meter that reads from 0 - 50 and those readings are then converted to Kgf readings by using a conversion chart supplied by Park that is dependent on the specs of the spoke being used. I think the Chart is online on the Park website under the wheelbuilding section if you want to see what I mean about conversion factors. The numbers Zen and rruff gave me were specific to the Sapim CXrays I used, but your mechanic should be able to measure the Pillars and come up with the proper conversion numbers from the Park Chart. 
I used the suggested approx. 120 kgf for the Front and 120 on the rear DS and they have worked just fine. Have about 1200 miles on those wheels now and they are still perfectly true.


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## cdhbrad (Feb 18, 2003)

Thanks, I see now why everyone likes the Kinlin 270s so much. They ride great. I like the 270s so much, I'm thinking of doing another set with Alchemy hubs and alloy nipples everywhere but rear DS and hope to pick up the hubs if they have them at the NAHBS show in Austin next Feb.


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## ergott (Feb 26, 2006)

cdhbrad said:


> Thanks, I see now why everyone likes the Kinlin 270s so much. They ride great. I like the 270s so much, I'm thinking of doing another set with Alchemy hubs and alloy nipples everywhere but read DS and hope to pick up the hubs if they have them at the NAHBS show in Austin next Feb.


Nice build above and I promise you, you will love the Alchemy hubs.

-Eric


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## heedongyee (Nov 29, 2010)

Ok seems I need to have a more detailed chat down at the LBS. Thanks for the info.


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## rruff (Feb 28, 2006)

cdhbrad said:


> I used the suggested approx. 120 kgf for the Front and 120 on the rear DS and they have worked just fine. Have about 1200 miles on those wheels now and they are still perfectly true.


Just to be clear, I'd recommend ~100kg on the front for road wheels because I've yet to find a case where that was insufficient. On the DS rear, yes... as high as the rim can bear. 

The fronts tend to be quite stiff and strong because of the high bracing angle and even tension. The rear is much more challenged because of the high dish and extra weight it carries.


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## TomH (Oct 6, 2008)

heedongyee said:


> Ok seems I need to have a more detailed chat down at the LBS. Thanks for the info.


Theres nothing worse than someone asking for your help, and then telling you how to do your job. Let your builder do his thing. If you dont trust his work enough to let him just work, you should be looking for a builder who you do trust.


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## dmotoguy (Sep 2, 2009)

cdhbrad said:


> I'm thinking of doing another set with Alchemy hubs and alloy nipples everywhere but rear DS and hope to pick up the hubs if they have them at the NAHBS show in Austin next Feb.


the Alchemy Bicycle Co going to NAHBS is a framebuilder from Austin.. their website

not Alchemy Bicycle Works (link)


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## twinkles (Apr 23, 2007)

Ambitious first build!  You made some really smart choices with the spokes & tensiometer. Happy rolling.


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## cdhbrad (Feb 18, 2003)

rruff said:


> Just to be clear, I'd recommend ~100kg on the front for road wheels because I've yet to find a case where that was insufficient.
> 
> Ron: Thanks for the clarification.


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## heedongyee (Nov 29, 2010)

rruff said:


> Just to be clear, I'd recommend ~100kg on the front for road wheels because I've yet to find a case where that was insufficient. On the DS rear, yes... as high as the rim can bear.
> 
> The fronts tend to be quite stiff and strong because of the high bracing angle and even tension. The rear is much more challenged because of the high dish and extra weight it carries.


So for a rear track wheel--also 100kgf?


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## cdhbrad (Feb 18, 2003)

No, that is Front only. Here is Zen's qoute from above, confirmed by rruff: 
"You should be shooting for 115-120 kgf per spoke. On the Park tensionmeter, this will be a 14.5-15."

That's where I ended up on the DS Rear, with NDS being whatever is needed to maintain true and dish when DS is properly tensioned. 

Hopefully, the pros will help clear this up for you, but I took their advice when I built my set and they work great.


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## rruff (Feb 28, 2006)

heedongyee said:


> So for a rear track wheel--also 100kgf?


I usually go higher with those, but it is questionable whether it is necessary. 

In general you want the lowest tension that will prevent spokes going slack. This is more likely to occur on a rear wheel than a front, even if it is a track rear wheel, because of the loads. Since most wheels I do are on the light end of the spectrum, high tension is needed on the rear. If you build a wheel that is more robust than you really need, then you could get away with lower tension. Lower tension (if adequate!) should prolong the life of the components... and some people claim that a change in the vibration response gives a more comfortable ride as well.


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## Driven2Design (Dec 4, 2012)

cdhbrad said:


> Thanks, I see now why everyone likes the Kinlin 270s so much. They ride great. I like the 270s so much, I'm thinking of doing another set with Alchemy hubs and alloy nipples everywhere but rear DS and hope to pick up the hubs if they have them at the NAHBS show in Austin next Feb.


I have all parts and am ready to build a wheel set with the XR-270s. I purchased all alloy nipples for the following:

28 spoke x3 front
32 spoke x3 rear
Sapim Race spokes

I wiegh 220 lbs. Should I consider brass nipples for the DS rear or should I be OK? And should I use the same 115-120 kgf for this setup as advised above for the lower spoke count x2 wheels?


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## cdhbrad (Feb 18, 2003)

I weigh 40lbs less than you and I go with Brass nipples all the way around on all my wheels, just for durability. Weight difference is neglible in the big picture of total bike/rider weight.


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## rruff (Feb 28, 2006)

Brass nipples make sense since you aren't counting grams anyway. But aluminum ones are fine in most climates if you use the proper lube. 

cdhbrad lives on the FL coast, so if you are in a similar spot, then brass is a good idea for corrosion resistance. 

Tension sounds fine for the DS rear. Use less on the front (~100kg). What hubs are you using?


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## Driven2Design (Dec 4, 2012)

cdhbrad said:


> I weigh 40lbs less than you and I go with Brass nipples all the way around on all my wheels, just for durability. Weight difference is neglible in the big picture of total bike/rider weight.


I agree but I have some beautiful red anodized hubs, black spokes and red anodized nipples. Brass nipples only come in chrome or black.


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## Driven2Design (Dec 4, 2012)

I am not sure who the manufacturer is. I purchased them from www.bikehubstore.com

They claim to use Enduro bearings so I felt comfortable with them. From this site I purchased the F125 for the front and the SL211 for the rear.


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## cdhbrad (Feb 18, 2003)

....and the brass nipples on the wheels you built for me are going strong after 5 years and many thousands of miles. Can't go wrong with Kinlin rims and brass nipples for durable wheels.


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## rruff (Feb 28, 2006)

Driven2Design said:


> From this site I purchased the F125 for the front and the SL211 for the rear.


Probably seems counter intuitive, but the rear wheel will be able to take higher vertical loads if you lace the NDS with lighter spokes. You could use light spokes on the front also, since it will be plenty stiff with 28.


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