# Rear derailluer for a 11x36t rear cassette



## multirider

I won 11x36 SRAM cassette at the Gunnison Growler mtb race. I ride my cx bike on mountain bike trails that have some steep hills, so I've been running a 11x28t rear cassette. I thought I'd try the 11x36 on my cx, so I put it on and rode on a local mtb trail. I really like it! It allows me to spin up some of the steep hills at a much more comfortable cadence.

Alas, my short-cage Ultegra rear der is too short and the pulley rides on the 36t cog in the back.

It appears that the road cages (Shimano and SRAM) are listed with a max 32t capacity.

Can I run a SRAM or Shimano mtb cage with my Shimano 105 road shifters? Will the cable pull of the 105 shifters shift correctly if I put a SRAM X9 rear derailleur on it? Or a Shimano XT rear derailleur?


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## JeffS

sram and shimano rear derailleurs are not interchangeable.


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## enr1co

Its nice to keep all the drive train components brand consistent but there are many folks (I, for one) that have mixed components shifters, rear deraileurs, cogs without issue.

http://forums.roadbikereview.com/cyclocross/what-shifters-do-you-use-249632.html

Can you run Campy shifters with a SRAM drivetrain? Sure, why not?

Im also looking to put a 11-34 or 36T on my CX bike currently set up w/ SRAM Force group ( short cage Force rear deraileur) . 

I've added a SRAM XX long cage and am running with a Campy Centaur 10 sp 11-26 cogset
and it shifts fine.

When I have the extra funds, I'll pick up a Shimano/SRAM wheelset, to use with either a Shimano or SRAM cogset 11-34 or 36T.


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## JeffS

Did the OP ask about Campy?


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## Schmucker

SRAM has the same pull for mountain and road. Shimano is different than SRAM. Shimano 10spds are different. Shimano 9spd derailleurs are compatible with 10spd road shifters. Run an old XT or XTR 9spd rear derailleur and it should be just fine. The new Tiagra 4600 group is 10spd compatible, but I don't know what its max cog size is, probably only 30 as they are offereing a 12-30 cassette.

My latest build will be an XT M772 rear derailleur, Tiagra 4600 12-30 cassette, 180mm compact Apex crank, 105 5500 front derailleur, and Ultegra 6600 levers.

My road bike is Dura-Ace 7800 levers, Ultegra 6500 cranks with a Tiagra 4500 inner ring and a 105 5500 outer ring, Ultegra 6600 front derailleur, 105 5501 rear derailleur, 105 5700 cassette.


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## enr1co

JeffS said:


> Did the OP ask about Campy?


No but the article and thread discusses mixing SRAM, Shimano and CAMPY.


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## colinfr

Get a Shimano 9 speed XT or XTR derrailleur, 10 speed won't work.

Also, before you go out and buy a new derailleur, try putting a 10t pulley on the top and backing the b screw all the way out of your current derailleur. You _*may*_ be able to get it to fit. I've seen 11-32 and a few 11-34 setup this way, you very well maybe able to squeeze a 36t into there.


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## velocanman

colinfr said:


> Get a Shimano 9 speed XT or XTR derrailleur, 10 speed won't work.
> 
> Also, before you go out and buy a new derailleur, try putting a 10t pulley on the top and backing the b screw all the way out of your current derailleur. You _*may*_ be able to get it to fit. I've seen 11-32 and a few 11-34 setup this way, you very well maybe able to squeeze a 36t into there.


1. I'm curious, why won't the new Shimano 10-speed work on his setup? He didn't specifically say whether or not he was running 9 or 10 speed. I assumed 10 speed since he's running Ultegra and a 11-28 (SRAM?) cassette.

2. Great suggestion on the 10-T pulley! I also saw recommended on another post to remove the B-adjustment screw and thread in from the "back". This way the head rides on the stop and rotates the derailleur back further, for clearance on the large cogs. Seems like a longer screw might also work.


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## TedH

I believe SRAM Apex is your other choice next to SRAM's MTB line for that size cassette.


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## colinfr

When Shimano released the 10 speed mountain bike groups, they changed the cable pull so that it is less finicky to setup. All Shimano road stuff (and 9/8/7 etc. mountain bike stuff) is roughly 2:1, where as the new Dyna-Sys 10sp stuff pulls closer to 1:1.

Sram on the other hand did the opposite. There 9sp mountain bike groups will NOT work with their road stuff, but their new 10speed mountain bike stuff WILL work with the road shifters.


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## m_s

colinfr said:


> When Shimano released the 10 speed mountain bike groups, they changed the cable pull so that it is less finicky to setup. All Shimano road stuff (and 9/8/7 etc. mountain bike stuff) is roughly 2:1, where as the new Dyna-Sys 10sp stuff pulls closer to 1:1.
> 
> Sram on the other hand did the opposite. There 9sp mountain bike groups will NOT work with their road stuff, but their new 10speed mountain bike stuff WILL work with the road shifters.


Just quoting this for truth because I have seen a lot of misinformation surrounding rear derailleur compatibility lately, and this post sums it up well.


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## esXso

I think the XTR dérailleurs are tensioned backwards so the cable pulls towards the small gears, for that reason I'd be inclined to run one of these which incidentally also come in silver (most mtb derailleurs are black).

Rivendell Bicycle Works: Shimano LX T661 rear der

Rivendell Bicycle Works: Shimano Deore rear derailer


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## colinfr

esXso said:


> I think the XTR dérailleurs are tensioned backwards so the cable pulls towards the small gears, for that reason I'd be inclined to run one of these which incidentally also come in silver (most mtb derailleurs are black).
> 
> Rivendell Bicycle Works: Shimano LX T661 rear der
> 
> Rivendell Bicycle Works: Shimano Deore rear derailer


This is called Rapid Rise, XTR derailleurs _WERE_ offered in both rapid rise and normal. I'm pretty sure Shimano discontinued the Rapid Rise derailleurs, though.


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## esXso

After thinking about it a bit I can see why the rapid rise, also called 'low normal', derailleurs might be preferable and have noticed they are still available


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## AndrwSwitch

multirider said:


> I won 11x36 SRAM cassette at the Gunnison Growler mtb race. Since I ride my cx bike on mountain bike trails that have some steep hills, so I've been running a 11x28t rear cassette. I thought I'd try the 11x36 on my cx, so I put it on and rode on a local mtb trail. I really like it! It allows me to spin up some of the steep hills at a much more comfortable cadence.
> 
> Alas, my short-cage Ultegra rear der is too short and the pulley rides on the 36t cog in the back.
> 
> It appears that the road cages (Shimano and SRAM) are listed with a max 32t capacity.
> 
> Can I run a SRAM or Shimano mtb cage with my Shimano 105 road shifters? Will the cable pull of the 105 shifters shift correctly if I put a SRAM X9 rear derailleur on it? Or a Shimano XT rear derailleur?


I was thinking about this the other day. The rear derailleur on my 'cross rig is getting a little sloppy, and I've decided that I don't care what other people think of my drivetrain, I want more low ratios. So I did a little research.

The 10-speed 9-speed issue mentioned earlier is a good thing to bear in mind, as is the brand issue. So you're restricted to the group of Shimano MTB derailleurs for 9-speed or fewer. Reading the installation manual on one of them, I saw that they recommend the traditional derailleurs for a 28t to 34t large cog, and the Shadow for 36t, and some smaller. Maybe 32?

So, according to Shimano, best function for your setup would be a 9-speed long-cage Shadow rear derailleur.










Shimano Deore XT M772 Rear Derailleur at JensonUSA.com

I'm too lazy to double-check the specific manual for the Shimano XT Shadow SGS rear derailleur. But I think it's the one you're looking for, assuming you want to stick with the same level components. Otherwise, the Deore, SLX, and XTR 9-speed Shadow SGS rear derailleurs should all do the job.

If you do it, let us know how it goes. Like I said - I'm thinking about doing this myself. Hence the research. I'd be especially interested in how it works on a 11-28 or closer-ratio road cassette - I'm also thinking about a traditional rear derailleur for better versatility, if there's actually a functional problem.


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## Schmucker

I bought this one with my cheap Cyclocross X frame.
Shimano Deore XT RD-M772 Shadow Mountain Bike Rear Derailleur - Mountain Bike - Rear Derailleurs

Shorter cage and below QBP's cost. It'll still climb a 36t. My compact double, this derailleur, Ultegra levers, and the 12-30 cassette is working great. Shifts just perfectly.


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## Akez

I'd say buy a Sram Apex rd and shifters.


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## heartland

My cx bike has a 9 speed 11-34 cassette with an SLX long cage rear derailleur and 9 speed Tiagra brifters. Works like a charm.


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## multirider

Apologies, I posted and then went on a trip out of town and wasn't able to check back.

I'm running 10spd with Shimano 105 shifters. Sounds like a Shimano mtb derailleur is the way to go. The Shimano web site doesn't specify 9 vs 10 speed on the XT derailleurs, but the QBP catalog lists them all as 9spd. Will a XT der work on my 10spd drivetrain?

The Shimano web site lists a 34t max for all the XT der including the Shadow. Obviously, any of the XTs will be more capable of a larger rear cog than my current short cage Ultegra der. Am I missing something? The XTRs go to 36t, but I'm not dropping that kind of money on a CX rear der. To use SRAM Apex, I would have to change my shifter, correct? Again, I don't want to spend the $$ if that's the case.

I'm having trouble figuring out the differences between XT models. It appears the "GS" is medium cage and the "SGS" is the long cage - is that correct? 

The 772 is the Shadow with the "tucked-in" cable routing that is really hard on the shift cable, so I'm not included to go with that one. 

What is the difference between the 770 and 771?


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## AndrwSwitch

There is 9-speed vs. 10-speed on XT derailleurs. For 10-speed mountain bike stuff, Shimano changed the cable pull and calls it Dyna-sys. Dyna-sys derailleurs are not compatible with any Shimano road system. Any previous versions, including the 9-speed XT derailleurs, should be fine. Shimano probably doesn't say anything on their web site because the XT group is already 9-speed, unless you travel back in time pretty far.

You're correct about GS vs. SGS. Check the manuals, but I think which one you want is going to depend on the chain rings you have. Same as road, more-or-less. M770 vs. M771 is low-normal vs. top-normal. IIRC, top-normal is almost all derailleurs (that's the M771.) Low-normal is reversed, and supposed to work better with integrated MTB shifters. A few people love them, but in general they didn't take off.

I think the M771 would be fine in your application too. Shimano gives a maximum cog size of 34t for it, but they can be a big conservative - it's probably fine. I haven't tried it myself, so if you have problems, sorry.  Strange that the 9-speed Shadows are mostly only rated for 34t. The Deore Shadow is the only 9-speed rear derailleur they actually rate for a 36t cog. Probably why those were the instructions I remembered.

My MTB has a Deore Shadow rear derailleur, and I actually quite like it. The cable and housing are much straighter in all positions, and I haven't had any problems. But Shimano recommends the traditional style for road bikes. More weirdness.


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## mudge

Pre-DynaSys derailleurs are compatible w/ Shimano road levers. I'm running an older XT derailleur and 10sp 11-36 XT cogset w/ DA 7800 shifters on my monstercross. Like a charm!


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## multirider

I changed my mind and am going with the XT Shadow. The cable has to make an almost 180 degree bend on my SRAM X9 on my mtb; I thought the Shimano had the same design. Upon closer inspection, the cable goes in pretty straight on the Shadow and it is listed as being 36t capable, so that's my plan.


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## cmdrpiffle

Real world experience:

It'll work. Like others said, a Shimano MTB rear derailleur (9 speed) with your shifters should be fine.

I run an 11-36 Shimano cluster, XT rear derailleur, and Campagnolo Chorus 10 speed shifters. I use JTek's Shift mate straight line version as the new XT rear derailleur is a top feed like SRAM that doesn't require the bend around in the cable housing.

Best of luck, and you'll love that 36!


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## cmdrpiffle

Here's a link from a post almost a year ago. With some pix. I've since changed it to the XT rear derailleur and a different Shift mate, but you get the picture.

Cheers

http://forums.roadbikereview.com/cyclocross/11-36-a-234034.html


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## DeeEight

Shimano 9 speed or less mtb derailleurs and all their road derailleurs use the same cable pull geometry EXCEPT for the 7 and 8 speed dura-ace ones (which only worked with the matching dura-ace shifters). The maximum you can get away with really, on a shimano road derailleur, even with a switch to a 10T upper pulley, is 34T. The Ultegra 10 speed GS-Cage for example will NOT sound very good running with a 36T cassette cog. If you try and run it anyway, expect the grinding noise you get when your chain comes off the pulley and goes to the cog because the distance is too close together (EVEN WITH the B-tension screw tightened in all the way). Some people will say to install the screw backwards so the head of it pushes against the derailleur hanger tab but its a lot of work to kludge a fix when simply installing an XTR 9 speed derailleur will do the job perfectly reliably.


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## Silvestri

I sorta get it, sorta don't get it.

I picked up a 11-36 XT 10-speed cassette from CRC:
Shimano XT Cassette 10 Speed M771

I have Shimano 105 5600 10-speed shifters. Am I correct in saying that the M771 9-speed derailleurs will work with the 11-36 10-speed cassette? The part that confuses me is the M771 10-speed cassette with the M771 9-speed derailleur (Shimano XT Rear Mech 9sp M77, also from CRC).

Thanks,


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## mudge

Silvestri said:


> I sorta get it, sorta don't get it.
> 
> I picked up a 11-36 XT 10-speed cassette from CRC:
> Shimano XT Cassette 10 Speed M771
> 
> I have Shimano 105 5600 10-speed shifters. Am I correct in saying that the M771 9-speed derailleurs will work with the 11-36 10-speed cassette? The part that confuses me is the M771 10-speed cassette with the M771 9-speed derailleur (Shimano XT Rear Mech 9sp M77, also from CRC).
> 
> Thanks,


Before the advent of the 10sp DynaSys rear derailleurs, there was compatibility of shifters/derailleurs across the Shimano line. The number of "speeds" was determined by the shifters, not the derailleurs. 

I have a late model, pre-DynaSys XT (aka 9 speed) derailleur mated to a 10 sp 7800 DuraAce shifter on my monstercross bike. It works perfectly. Your set-up should, too.


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## Silvestri

I see, thanks for clearing that up mudge.


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## multirider

Okay, well, I put an XT Shadow SGS on. All 10 gears are there and it is compatible with the 105 road shifters, but the Shadow is probably not the best choice. The design of the derailleur is such that the chain whacks the parallogram on downshifts on occasion. It happened several times on the workstand. The chain jams against the derailleur and no more turning, no more shifting, all jammed up. 

So I took a file to my brand new $80 derailleur and took off a couple millimeters of aluminum. 

I only rode it around the block, but it seems to work great now! Planning to ride it for a couple hours tomorrow. Better take some tools with me . . . 

It appears that it would work well with smaller cassettes. I'm running a 11-36t. There's probably enough clearance if the biggest cog was a 34t.

A "standard" XT (not Shadow) would probably work fine, too.


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## velocanman

I'm more of a Sram mtb guy, but that doesn't sound right. I guess you adjusted the b-screw and still got chain contact?

What is the difference between the shadow and std Der?

A picture would be cool so I can pass it on to the bike shop. Our wench would want to know about this.


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## multirider

I got it all installed and tuned and somehow the chain doesn't come particularly close to the rear der. I'm not sure what was going on. There was contact when shifting in the big gears, I filed the der a bit to try to give it just enough room, and now there is plenty of room. It is bizarre. From the looks of things now, the chain couldn't have hit. I dunno how it did in the first place or what fixed it, but there are no problems with the XT long cage and the 11-36t cassette. Shifts great, works well, very happy to have the big gears in some situations.


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## Gilarider

multirider said:


> I got it all installed and tuned and somehow the chain doesn't come particularly close to the rear der. I'm not sure what was going on. There was contact when shifting in the big gears, I filed the der a bit to try to give it just enough room, and now there is plenty of room. It is bizarre. From the looks of things now, the chain couldn't have hit. I dunno how it did in the first place or what fixed it, but there are no problems with the XT long cage and the 11-36t cassette. Shifts great, works well, very happy to have the big gears in some situations.


My guess is you had it installed on the hanger wrong, I did that with a shadow der once too. I am not sure how to put it into words, but the Nubbin on the der was forward of the hanger stop on the frame, or pushing on the outside of the hanger. Make sure it is in the right spot and tight, it may have moved around and started working, but could be loose now.


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## kata

Multirider, I'm not sure how you installed either, but I've been running shadow RD for 2 seasons now without any issues. Last year was running 9 speed on a 11-34. This year, I'm using 10speed shifters, 9-speed shadow, and 11-36 10spd cassette. Again, no problems, no issues.


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## GRAVELBIKE

Maybe post a couple of pics of the derailleur/cogs/chain?


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