# Is it possible there is another positive???



## physasst (Oct 1, 2005)

Their is a belgian paper reporting a positive on stage 14....no names yet.

http://www.actu24.be/article/sports/cyclisme/un_nouveau_cas_positif_sur_le_tour_/25538.aspx

Courtesy of Babelfish

A rumour reports that a new positive control was noted on the Lathe of France. It would have been carried out after the 14e stage run Sunday between Mazamet and Plate-of-Beille and gained by Alberto Contador. 

The noise circulated within the room of press as of Wednesday evening whereas the yellow jersey Michael Rasmussen was excluded from the Turn by its Rabobank team. No confirmation was given until now. In all logic, Alberto Contador, victorious of the stage, and Michael Rasmussen, carrying the yellow jersey, form part of the runners which had to pass to control antidopage last Sunday. But, once again, it acts until now only of one rumour. One should know some more in the current of the afternoon. (Benoit DARDENNE with Didier MALEMPRE)


----------



## Einstruzende (Jun 1, 2004)

In a perfect world it would be Rassmussen so this episode can be closed properly (with a positive test and not just circumstantial evidence).


----------



## bikeboy389 (May 4, 2004)

Well, as I understand it, Vino tested positive for Stage 15 as well as the TT, so maybe he was one of the randoms on stage 14, and it's just him again.

It would tie things up neatly if it were the Chicken, but I'm not holding my breath. I mean, how many dozens of domestiques may have been out there trying to pull a fast one, hoping not to be one of the random controls, just like Moreni?


----------



## JohnHenry (Aug 9, 2006)

I hope it's Evans. Vino's antics (re:Kloden) and Rasmussen dropped my fantasy team to number 838 or some such. :mad2:


----------



## Barry Muzzin (Sep 18, 2006)

*Riders tested...*

Riders tested: Rasmussen (Rabo), Contador (Disco), Soler (Barloworld), Valverde (Caisse d'Epargne), Schleck (CSC), Verdugo (Euskaltel), Valjavec (Lampre), Le Mevel (Crédit Agricole), Scheirlinckx (Cofidis)


Lots of possibilities...


----------



## blackhat (Jan 2, 2003)

teh moreon said:


> I hope it's Evans.



that seems highly unlikely for a number of reasons.


----------



## bas (Jul 30, 2004)

Barry Muzzin said:


> Riders tested: Rasmussen (Rabo), Contador (Disco), Soler (Barloworld), Valverde (Caisse d'Epargne), Schleck (CSC), Verdugo (Euskaltel), Valjavec (Lampre), Le Mevel (Crédit Agricole), Scheirlinckx (Cofidis)
> 
> 
> Lots of possibilities...


bye bye contador.


----------



## Red Sox Junkie (Sep 15, 2005)

Do you actually know something? I just checked the discovery channel team website and nothing comes up. Wonder if something is up!


----------



## FondriestFan (May 19, 2005)

Nope no news so far. If there were news, L'Equipe would have had it by now.


----------



## Walt12 (Jan 4, 2007)

My pick is one of the lesser lights of that group ... ala Moreni ... Verdugo was standout in that stage 16 (although he faded) ... maybe he felt the effects a little later?


----------



## bas (Jul 30, 2004)

Red Sox Junkie said:


> Do you actually know something? I just checked the discovery channel team website and nothing comes up. Wonder if something is up!


No. But my "guessing" has been pretty spot on.

I just don't like seeing Contador and Valverde in the tour since they were linked to Op Puerto, but they had their names magically removed (it appears they cooperated with investigators to get their names off the list).

Valverde looks clean for this tour. 

Contador doesn't really look human, so I'm suspecting. "Pure climbers" sprinting up mountains?! come on...

And since his name was in the list of tested.. it's possible.

I honestly hope Contador is clean.. but I'm doubtful.


----------



## coinstar2k (Apr 17, 2007)

whoever goes, it will be the whole team. Evans may win by default.


----------



## ECXkid04 (Jul 21, 2004)

possibility of 4 teams out!?? how can this get any more crazy!???????????

gotta love cycling. :/ i'd love to know if there is anyone who made bets on tour winners this year.


----------



## Dwayne Barry (Feb 16, 2003)

bas said:


> bye bye contador.


IMO, in the interest of clean cycling, it would be best if it was Contador. Not so much from the perspective of getting rid of him, but Bruyneel gives every indication he still thinks the old way.


----------



## LarsM (Jul 26, 2007)

bas said:


> No. But my "guessing" has been pretty spot on.
> 
> I just don't like seeing Contador and Valverde in the tour since they were linked to Op Puerto, but they had their names magically removed (it appears they cooperated with investigators to get their names off the list).
> 
> ...


Did you see the story on VeloNews discussing Contador and Puerto? They say


> After a thorough review of the document, VeloNews found only two mentions of Contador. Neither of those two references could be linked to illicit doping products or doping practices, officials later decided.


Not saying he is or isn't clean, but he wasn't just magically removed from the list.


----------



## Dwayne Barry (Feb 16, 2003)

LarsM said:


> Not saying he is or isn't clean, but he wasn't just magically removed from the list.


It's not entirely clear what went on. There seems to be some indications that when the UCI established their official list (not this pre-Tour summary "rush to exclude" list based on a summary document), the documents containing Contador's name were not there.

The velonews article appears to be a bit of fluff piece. It refers to his name in "training plans" but others seem to think they are doping plans with codes for the various drugs. I don't know if any of these are linked to Contador other than on document #31 which has the "nothing or same as JJ" written on it. And we know JJ was being doped by Fuentes because he's confessed.

Finally, the evidence seems to be much stronger against Valv.(Piti) and yet he has not been excluded either, this include calenders with code words suggestive of doping schedules. This at least strongly suggests the notion that some deals were cut is in fact true.


----------



## gebbyfish (Apr 26, 2002)

How come we haven't heard anymore on this?? Just a nasty rumor??


----------



## Dwayne Barry (Feb 16, 2003)

gebbyfish said:


> How come we haven't heard anymore on this?? Just a nasty rumor??


If true, you'd expect Ressiot in L'Equipe to be reporting it? I don't know if it is there or not.

Saw another forum that the French press is saying it will be reported this afternoon and the rumor is that it is one of the "distinctive jerseys". So I'd assume that means Contador, Rasmussen, Soler or even Valjevic.


----------



## gebbyfish (Apr 26, 2002)

I'm betting Rasmussen and hoping it's not Contador, since he's gone on record, just like Rasmussen did, that we have nothing to worry about with him(paraphrasing).


----------



## FondriestFan (May 19, 2005)

I'm betting it's just a rumor.


----------



## MarkS (Feb 3, 2004)

FondriestFan said:


> I'm betting it's just a rumor.


I'm betting on Contador. When Tom Boonen was interviewed on Versus last night (or was it Wednesday) and said that he hoped that Evans would win the Tour, I had the distinct impression that Boonen was trying to make a statement about Contador. I would expect that the peloton knows a lot more than the rest of us do about who is doping, what is going on with the tests, etc. Maybe I read too much into Boonen's comments, but I wonder if he knows something that we do not know (yet). Also, I thought that Johan Bruyneel was overly subdued in his interview about Contador's being the yellow jersey. I almost had the feeling that he did not want to gloat too much about the Rasmussen pullout because he might not want to eat his words a few days later.


----------



## bas (Jul 30, 2004)

Dwayne Barry said:


> If true, you'd expect Ressiot in L'Equipe to be reporting it? I don't know if it is there or not.
> 
> Saw another forum that the French press is saying it will be reported this afternoon and the rumor is that it is one of the "distinctive jerseys". So I'd assume that means Contador, Rasmussen, Soler or even Valjevic.



*gulp* that's narrowing it down closer...

damn if they boot Disco, levi will be a man on a rampage. I bet he *kills* contador. :mad2: 

You know levi seems like a nice guy, but if you ruin his podium chances, he's not going to take it too lightly.


----------



## gebbyfish (Apr 26, 2002)

bas said:


> *gulp* that's narrowing it down closer...
> 
> damn if they boot Disco, levi will be a man on a rampage. I bet he *kills* contador. :mad2:
> 
> You know levi seems like a nice guy, but if you ruin his podium chances, he's not going to take it too lightly.


Got to agree with you on that one, because if it was Contador, the whole team is gone, based on precedent earlier with Astana and Cofidis. Couldn't blame Levi if he literally threw Contador under the Discovery bus if this turns out to be true!!!!!


----------



## I3erto (Jul 23, 2007)

anyone got a link to any of these articles??


----------



## Barry Muzzin (Sep 18, 2006)

I agree regarding Boonen's comments. I know he never rode with Contador under Bruyneel but I found it odd that he didn't say anything positive about JB's riders-- either AC or LL. You would think that having ridden under JB, if they were running a clean program, he would have spoken about how he was sure the Disco riders were clean

The rider's do know best and from what I have picked up, no one in the peloton / caravan is very excited about Contador in yellow


----------



## James OCLV (Jun 4, 2002)

Barry Muzzin said:


> I agree regarding Boonen's comments. I know he never rode with Contador under Bruyneel but I found it odd that he didn't say anything positive about JB's riders-- either AC or LL. You would think that having ridden under JB, if they were running a clean program, he would have spoken about how he was sure the Disco riders were clean
> 
> The rider's do know best and from what I have picked up, no one in the peloton / caravan is very excited about Contador in yellow


Could just be that the majority of them are fed-up at this point. Can't read too much into Boonen's comments; no one knows on what terms he left Disco/Postal.

The again:

"Contador's performance is suspicious — very suspicious," AG2R manager Vincent Lavenu said. "But we can't say anything unless he's caught in a doping check. I don't trust this team. Maybe one day we'll know."


----------



## bas (Jul 30, 2004)

I3erto said:


> anyone got a link to any of these articles??


Lemond is calling for Contador's head too.

http://www.foxsports.com.au/story/0,8659,22143376-23210,00.html


----------



## Bocephus Jones II (Oct 7, 2004)

bas said:


> Lemond is calling for Contador's head too.
> 
> http://www.foxsports.com.au/story/0,8659,22143376-23210,00.html


Is Lemond the doping psychic now? Jeeze...Greg ought to shut up till the evidence comes in.


----------



## blackhat (Jan 2, 2003)

Bocephus Jones II said:


> Is Lemond the doping psychic now? Jeeze...Greg ought to shut up till the evidence comes in.



he did say in the linked piece that he's "not pointing fingers" at contador. no shortage of people who are willing to do so though.


----------



## James OCLV (Jun 4, 2002)

Bocephus Jones II said:


> Is Lemond the doping psychic now? Jeeze...Greg ought to shut up till the evidence comes in.


Well, I think that his history in the sport lends credibility to his statments. Did you actually _read_ the article? He's not accusing Contador... he's simply saying that given the circumstances surrounding him, they should be taking a closer look.


----------



## gebbyfish (Apr 26, 2002)

Boy, Lemond sure is a s*&t-stirrer. Doesn't that guy have a day job he can go to!


----------



## LarsM (Jul 26, 2007)

Dwayne Barry said:


> The velonews article appears to be a bit of fluff piece.


Riiight--like the fluff piece they did breaking the news about Rasmussen and the shoebox full of blood substitute. Thanks for clearing that up--I'd forgotten how easy they go on cyclists.


----------



## physasst (Oct 1, 2005)

gebbyfish said:


> Boy, Lemond sure is a s*&t-stirrer. Doesn't that guy have a day job he can go to!



That is his day job..and yeah I was surprised we haven't heard anymore either. Maybe that belgian paper I referenced was wrong?? Dunno.


----------



## pedalruns (Dec 18, 2002)

Bocephus Jones II said:


> Is Lemond the doping psychic now? Jeeze...Greg ought to shut up till the evidence comes in.



You know I'm sick of people talking crap about Lemond... I'm glad he is talking now and has been and not been intimadated by the LA propoganda machine thru the years..... and btw if you really read the article your statement about GL is totally wrong.... he is actually only saying what many have been saying. 

Go Greg Lemond!! One of the last clean riders before the EPO era took over!!


----------



## Bocephus Jones II (Oct 7, 2004)

pedalruns said:


> Go Greg Lemond!! One of the last clean riders before the EPO era took over!!


Sez You...as if there wasn't doping before EPO.


----------



## Bocephus Jones II (Oct 7, 2004)

James OCLV said:


> Well, I think that his history in the sport lends credibility to his statments. Did you actually _read_ the article? He's not accusing Contador... he's simply saying that given the circumstances surrounding him, they should be taking a closer look.


Lemond seems to have to pipe up each time there is even a hint of a doping allegation. He may not be accusing him, but he is casting doubt on Contador by association. Really...do we need to speculate on these kinds of things before anything is proven? What good does it do other than feed the rumor mill.


----------



## pedalruns (Dec 18, 2002)

Bocephus Jones II said:


> Sez You...as if there wasn't doping before EPO.



Absolutley there was doping... lots of it.. but EPO has been the first drug to make a huge difference... to turn donkey's into race horses... so much so that if you weren't on it you weren't in the race...


----------



## pedalruns (Dec 18, 2002)

Bocephus Jones II said:


> Lemond seems to have to pipe up each time there is even a hint of a doping allegation. He may not be accusing him, but he is casting doubt on Contador by association. Really...do we need to speculate on these kinds of things before anything is proven? What good does it do other than feed the rumor mill.


I think this is exactly what needs to happen... question, question and more questions... just like Boonen, Miller, Sastre even, the AG2r team manager, Wiggins... and Lemond are doing...... It is the silence that needs to stop... IMO there is a HUGE doubt in Contador.


----------



## FondriestFan (May 19, 2005)

Bocephus Jones II said:


> Lemond seems to have to pipe up each time there is even a hint of a doping allegation. He may not be accusing him, but he is casting doubt on Contador by association. Really...do we need to speculate on these kinds of things before anything is proven? What good does it do other than feed the rumor mill.


LeMond has a pretty good track record with these things. He and Manzano have been on the money.


----------



## Bocephus Jones II (Oct 7, 2004)

pedalruns said:


> I think this is exactly what needs to happen... question, question and more questions... just like Boonen, Miller, Sastre even, the AG2r team manager, Wiggins... and Lemond are doing...... It is the silence that needs to stop... IMO there is a HUGE doubt in Contador.


There's a huge doubt for anyone at this point. Maybe Phil and Paul are doping?


----------



## Bocephus Jones II (Oct 7, 2004)

FondriestFan said:


> LeMond has a pretty good track record with these things. He and Manzano have been on the money.


Good track record or is doping just so rampant that he can pretty much name anyone and be correct?


----------



## FondriestFan (May 19, 2005)

Bocephus Jones II said:


> Good track record or is doping just so rampant that he can pretty much name anyone and be correct?


So why are you getting on his case for being correct, then?


----------



## James OCLV (Jun 4, 2002)

Bocephus Jones II said:


> Lemond seems to have to pipe up each time there is even a hint of a doping allegation. He may not be accusing him, but he is casting doubt on Contador by association. Really...do we need to speculate on these kinds of things before anything is proven? What good does it do other than feed the rumor mill.


Contador doesn't need any help from Lemond. The doubt is already there.


----------



## FTF (Aug 5, 2003)

bas said:


> No. But my "guessing" has been pretty spot on.
> 
> I just don't like seeing Contador and Valverde in the tour since they were linked to Op Puerto, but they had their names magically removed (it appears they cooperated with investigators to get their names off the list).
> 
> ...


He's on disco, no way will he get caught, it's not like they don't know how to run a tight ship. notice how once you leave disco, bam they get caught..... 

7 tested clean tour victories, about to be 8 with Contador. 

But I'm sure you think Levi is clean right, right?


----------



## James OCLV (Jun 4, 2002)

pedalruns said:


> I think this is exactly what needs to happen... question, question and more questions... just like Boonen, Miller, Sastre even, the AG2r team manager, Wiggins... and Lemond are doing...... It is the silence that needs to stop... IMO there is a HUGE doubt in Contador.


Right... the impact of Lemond's comments is miniscule. There's plenty of doubt without him.


----------



## FTF (Aug 5, 2003)

Bocephus Jones II said:


> There's a huge doubt for anyone at this point. Maybe Phil and Paul are doping?


Are you doping? What kind of THC testing do they do where you work..... :blush2:

"I'm high on PCP!!!!"


----------



## wipeout (Jun 6, 2005)

pedalruns said:


> You know I'm sick of people talking crap about Lemond... I'm glad he is talking now and has been and not been intimadated by the LA propoganda machine thru the years..... and btw if you really read the article your statement about GL is totally wrong.... he is actually only saying what many have been saying.
> 
> Go Greg Lemond!! One of the last clean riders before the EPO era took over!!


+1 ... Who's opinion am I going to believe more? Some random CAT 4 RBR poster or Greg Lemond?


----------



## Dwayne Barry (Feb 16, 2003)

FondriestFan said:


> I'm betting it's just a rumor.


Seems increasingly likely.


----------



## coinstar2k (Apr 17, 2007)

Lemond is a jackass. I can't believe that anyone even talks about him anymore. I think that is why he runs to any reporter that will listen. He must be lonely or something.


----------



## philippec (Jun 16, 2002)

LeMond has waaay more credibility than anyone, repeat a.n.y.o.n.e. on this forum. What a bunch of whiny lilluputs!!


----------



## bas (Jul 30, 2004)

wipeout said:


> +1 ... Who's opinion am I going to believe more? Some random CAT 4 RBR poster or Greg Lemond?



Hey, I'm Cat 5 RBR poster... buhahaha :ihih:


----------



## barbedwire (Dec 3, 2005)

*Wasn't Contraban involved in Puerto?*

Wasn't Contrador involved in the Puerto drug bust? How did he get off of that one?


----------



## FondriestFan (May 19, 2005)

philippec said:


> LeMond has waaay more credibility than anyone, repeat a.n.y.o.n.e. on this forum. What a bunch of whiny lilluputs!!


Amen. The douches who bash LeMond are likely the same ones who worship at the LA shrine.


----------



## serbski (Dec 2, 2002)

Bocephus Jones II said:


> Lemond seems to have to pipe up each time there is even a hint of a doping allegation. He may not be accusing him, but he is casting doubt on Contador by association. Really...do we need to speculate on these kinds of things before anything is proven? What good does it do other than feed the rumor mill.


I agree with "innocent until proven guilty" however it is not cynical to be suspicious of a rider who was originally mentioned in the Puerto dossier and who, most recently, was giving Rasumussen trouble on the climbs. Additionally, Bruyneel is absolutely a member of the 90's EPO generation and rode for Manolo Saiz on ONCE. Personally, I am absolutely suspicious of *any* former Manolo riders, Vino and Contador being names that come to mind. Why has little mention been made of Contador's brain anuerysm (sp?) a few years back? I am not a doctor (and don't play one on TV) but aren't strokes one of the dangers of EPO use/blood manipulation? Honestly, Lemond has been pretty astute with his comments regarding doping and has been forthright and accurate while Bruyneel has been vague and non-commital to put it mildly. The more I have to watch Bruyneel and riders look down/look uncomfortable when discussing doping ("Oh, it's very unfortunate but you have to focus....blah, blah, blah. It makes cycling look bad. It's very confusing") I wonder why not one of them has ever taken a public speaking course. Body language says a lot and have a look at these guys in interviews. Pathetic.


----------



## serbski (Dec 2, 2002)

coinstar2k said:


> Lemond is a jackass. I can't believe that anyone even talks about him anymore. I think that is why he runs to any reporter that will listen. He must be lonely or something.


No lonlier than the rest of us nerds typing away on a cycling forum on a beautiful summer's day! Lemond has been *on the money* regarding the current doping situation. Given all that has transpired of late, what exactly about Lemond's *words* riles you so?


----------



## Bocephus Jones II (Oct 7, 2004)

serbski said:


> No lonlier than the rest of us nerds typing away on a cycling forum on a beautiful summer's day! Lemond has been *on the money* regarding the current doping situation. Given all that has transpired of late, what exactly about Lemond's *words* riles you so?


I see him as an opportunist.


----------



## blackhat (Jan 2, 2003)

Bocephus Jones II said:


> I see him as an opportunist.


and just what opportunity is he exploiting? I don't think he's getting much positive return from the exposure.


----------



## serbski (Dec 2, 2002)

Bocephus Jones II said:


> I see him as an opportunist.


I agree that he sees an opportunity to speak out on doping in pro cycling and grabs it! If he is indeed motivated by a need for public attention he is receiving it at a very high price. His comments about Armstrong have cost him dearly in the US with regard to his bicycle line. Also, the average Lance-fan American thinks Lemond is a crackpot. I just don't see it like you do I guess.


----------



## Bocephus Jones II (Oct 7, 2004)

blackhat said:


> and just what opportunity is he exploiting? I don't think he's getting much positive return from the exposure.


he gets his name in the papers. no publicity is bad publicity.


----------



## blackhat (Jan 2, 2003)

Bocephus Jones II said:


> he gets his name in the papers. no publicity is bad publicity.



I think he, you and I all know better than that. the publicity he's getting isn't doing him or his brand any favors.


----------



## rodster (Jun 29, 2006)

serbski said:


> . . . while Bruyneel has been vague and non-commital to put it mildly. The more I have to watch Bruyneel and riders look down/look uncomfortable when discussing doping ("Oh, it's very unfortunate but you have to focus....blah, blah, blah. It makes cycling look bad. It's very confusing") I wonder why not one of them has ever taken a public speaking course. Body language says a lot and have a look at these guys in interviews. Pathetic.


Bingo. I saw an interview with Bruyneel yesterday where a reporter asked him if Contador was clean and Bruynel completely avoided answering the question by saying how he'd been a fan of Contador's for years and thinks he'll be a great champion for the future. 

The George and Levi interviews and their responses to Razzy getting booted contrasted sharply with the attitudes of all of the other rider interviews I've seen. Very much so the "I'm just concentrating on getting to Paris" party line, without so much as a hint of sentiment that there's a credibility gap in cycling that needs to go away.

Given that it was very surprising to me to read on Velonews's daily coverage that the rumor is that George is heading to T-Mobile next year (if there's even a team, that is).


----------



## bas (Jul 30, 2004)

http://forums.roadbikereview.com/showthread.php?t=102272





physasst said:


> Their is a belgian paper reporting a positive on stage 14....no names yet.
> 
> http://www.actu24.be/article/sports/cyclisme/un_nouveau_cas_positif_sur_le_tour_/25538.aspx
> 
> ...


----------



## wipeout (Jun 6, 2005)

bas said:


> bye bye contador.


Contador is still there... Still stand by your prediction?


----------



## Bocephus Jones II (Oct 7, 2004)

wipeout said:


> Contador is still there... Still stand by your prediction?


Wait...you just never know in this tour. My flip comment about the Lanterne Rouge winning might prove to be prophetic yet.


----------



## bas (Jul 30, 2004)

wipeout said:


> Contador is still there... Still stand by your prediction?



Still 2 more days. haha

I'll stick by my Soler ;-)


http://forums.roadbikereview.com/showthread.php?t=101739&highlight=soler


----------



## 32and3cross (Feb 28, 2005)

bas said:


> Still 2 more days. haha
> 
> I'll stick by my Soler ;-)
> 
> ...


As far as Solar I will wait for some real news outlets to report on this the ones yoru siting are basicly Belgian scandle rags.

When you see it in Eurosport or Cyclingnews or even LE Equipe its been varified.


----------



## Einstruzende (Jun 1, 2004)

I hope it's Contador in the worst way. Love to see the Disco fanboys explain that one.

As has been mentioned before, the guy rode for what appears to be the dirtiest DS out there (Saiz).

Even though the news about Soler hasn't hit a "real news outlet", it just has the ring of truth to it. It's the most illogical performance after Rasmussens thus far. (And with Ras, really it was just his TT all of a sudden)


----------



## Red Sox Junkie (Sep 15, 2005)

32and3cross said:


> As far as Solar I will wait for some real news outlets to report on this the ones yoru siting are basicly Belgian scandle rags.
> 
> When you see it in Eurosport or Cyclingnews or even LE Equipe its been varified.


http://www.cyclingnews.com/road/2007/tour07/news/?id=/news/2007/jul07/jul28news

I know they are still listing it as a rumor, but cyclingnews.com has mention of the story and reports a news conference at 11:00 tomorrow that is scheduled by the tour organizers.


----------



## 32and3cross (Feb 28, 2005)

Red Sox Junkie said:


> http://www.cyclingnews.com/road/2007/tour07/news/?id=/news/2007/jul07/jul28news
> 
> I know they are still listing it as a rumor, but cyclingnews.com has mention of the story and reports a news conference at 11:00 tomorrow that is scheduled by the tour organizers.


True, but the confrence is reported to be for something much larger than Solar. CN is just reporting that the scandle mags are reporting unconfirmed stuff at the moment.


----------



## wim (Feb 28, 2005)

Well, the Belgian "Het Laatste Nieuws" thinks it's Soler.

http://www.hln.be/


...and now the German Press Agency dpa and DER SPIEGEL picked it up, but are careful to say "it's not official."

http://www.spiegel.de/sport/sonst/0,1518,496995,00.html


----------



## Guest (Jul 28, 2007)

What is this about Contator??

http://www.hln.be/hlns/cache/det/art_537033.html?wt.bron=homeArt4


----------



## FondriestFan (May 19, 2005)

AJL said:


> What is this about Contator??
> 
> http://www.hln.be/hlns/cache/det/art_537033.html?wt.bron=homeArt4


Per Babelfish:

Tour director Christian Prudhomme picked his nose and was surprised to extract Alberto Contandor covered in a powdery white substance. Then he remembered the coke party he attended last night with Johan Bruyneel. The Chicken did a keg stand there. Fun was had by all. Long live the Lathe of France.


----------



## 32and3cross (Feb 28, 2005)

wim said:


> Well, the Belgian "Het Laatste Nieuws" thinks it's Soler.
> 
> http://www.hln.be/
> 
> ...


Bingo, scandle rags are repoting it as truth which its not, everyone else is waiting for confirmation.


----------



## Guest (Jul 28, 2007)

FondriestFan said:


> Per Babelfish:
> 
> Tour director Christian Prudhomme picked his nose and was surprised to extract Alberto Contandor covered in a powdery white substance. Then he remembered the coke party he attended last night with Johan Bruyneel. The Chicken did a keg stand there. Fun was had by all. Long live the Lathe of France.


 Thanks for the help


----------



## Pilas (Jun 12, 2007)

bas said:


> No. But my "guessing" has been pretty spot on.
> 
> I just don't like seeing Contador and Valverde in the tour since they were linked to Op Puerto, but they had their names magically removed (it appears they cooperated with investigators to get their names off the list).
> 
> ...


I already posted this in another discussion, but I'll do it again. 
Contador was not linked to Operacion Puerto. His name was in the list of one of the team directors about race results. His name was not in the list that was confiscated from Doctor Fuentes. In fact, Fuentes himself, admitted that he didn't even know who Contador was.
He didn't deny having worked with some of the other riders in the list.
The Spanish authorities, and the UCI cleared him of any wrongdoing. That is why he was allowed to sign for Discovery Channel.


----------



## bas (Jul 30, 2004)

Pilas said:


> I already posted this in another discussion, but I'll do it again.
> Contador was not linked to Operacion Puerto. His name was in the list of one of the team directors about race results. His name was not in the list that was confiscated from Doctor Fuentes. In fact, Fuentes himself, admitted that he didn't even know who Contador was.
> He didn't deny having worked with some of the other riders in the list.
> The Spanish authorities, and the UCI cleared him of any wrongdoing. That is why he was allowed to sign for Discovery Channel.



Well, at least this explains it better than what has been reported.

So how'd valverdere get a free pass?


----------



## DMFT (Feb 3, 2005)

*Hey Pilas!*

- We'll have NONE of that sensical nonsense around here! He (Contador) is a guilty cheat like the rest of them without a dirty test don't ya know!!??!!

* Read :  into this post.


----------



## gebbyfish (Apr 26, 2002)

serbski said:


> Why has little mention been made of Contador's brain anuerysm (sp?) a few years back? I am not a doctor (and don't play one on TV) but aren't strokes one of the dangers of EPO use/blood manipulation?



I don't think you have your facts straight on the "brain aneurysm". The reports I get on the internet from some cycling sources and espn.com are that he had a blood clot removed(probably a subdural hematoma), that was suffered as the result of a bicycle crash. Subdural hematomas are usually the result of trauma, like a bicycle crash. Even if it was an aneurysm and I found nothing on the net that states that it was, epo does not cause aneurysms. Epo can contribute to thickening of the blood, just like an unneeded blood transfusion, and a higher hematocrit(i.e. more red cells) makes the blood "stickier" and can cause clots that could cause deep vein thrombosis(i.e. blood clot in an arm or more likely a leg), or a pulmonary emoblism(blood clot in the lungs) or a stroke. 

I think the ASO, Prudhomme and the Contador naysayers at this point are laughable. All of this was known well prior to this year's race. If there was an issue, Prudhomme should not have let him start the race. That's what they did last year! If they had no qualms about not letting him start last year, then they should have made damn sure they had no issues this year! 

This is getting laughable. Anyone for Contador or against Lemond is a Discovery lover and "worships at the LA shrine". The simple fact of the matter is that Discovery is a high profile team, with an American sponsor and this is a web site based in America. Thus, most of us on the site are probably American and more likely to be aware of this team and its members. Add to the fact that the kid put in some tremendous rides in the mountains and it makes for a great story. Too bad it has to be ruined by all the rumor and innuendo. I hope he kicks ass today!


----------



## DMFT (Feb 3, 2005)

*Iwould add this to your post.........*



gebbyfish said:


> I think the ASO, Prudhomme and the Contador naysayers at this point are laughable. All of this was known well prior to this year's race. If there was an issue, Prudhomme should not have let him start the race. That's what they did last year! If they had no qualms about not letting him start last year, then they should have made damn sure they had no issues this year!



- They didn't let his TEAM start last year....not "Him".
Good post!


----------



## uzziefly (Jul 15, 2006)

Pilas said:


> I already posted this in another discussion, but I'll do it again.
> Contador was not linked to Operacion Puerto. His name was in the list of one of the team directors about race results. His name was not in the list that was confiscated from Doctor Fuentes. In fact, Fuentes himself, admitted that he didn't even know who Contador was.
> He didn't deny having worked with some of the other riders in the list.
> The Spanish authorities, and the UCI cleared him of any wrongdoing. That is why he was allowed to sign for Discovery Channel.


Exactly dude. I saw this in an article somewhere but forgot the link. Thanks for posting it as it clears several things up.

That said, I am a big Disco fan and really hopes Alberto is truly clean for his sake as well as the sake of the Tour and the credibility of it and the restoration of the decency of the _maillot jaune_


----------



## Len J (Jan 28, 2004)

*I don't think that is true.......*



DMFT said:


> - They didn't let his TEAM start last year....not "Him".
> Good post!


The team was unable to start because they didn't have 5 clean riders......because 5 riders, including Contador, were included in the original Puerto translation lists of implicated riders. Later, the UCI, & WADA indicated that including Contador was a mistake.

But Contador was on the original list and was excluded from starting......his expuslsion was one of the reasons the team could not start.

len


----------



## bas (Jul 30, 2004)

gebbyfish said:


> I don't think you have your facts straight on the "brain aneurysm". The reports I get on the internet from some cycling sources and espn.com are that he had a blood clot removed(probably a subdural hematoma), that was suffered as the result of a bicycle crash. Subdural hematomas are usually the result of trauma, like a bicycle crash. Even if it was an aneurysm and I found nothing on the net that states that it was, epo does not cause aneurysms. Epo can contribute to thickening of the blood, just like an unneeded blood transfusion, and a higher hematocrit(i.e. more red cells) makes the blood "stickier" and can cause clots that could cause deep vein thrombosis(i.e. blood clot in an arm or more likely a leg), or a pulmonary emoblism(blood clot in the lungs) or a stroke.
> 
> I think the ASO, Prudhomme and the Contador naysayers at this point are laughable. All of this was known well prior to this year's race. If there was an issue, Prudhomme should not have let him start the race. That's what they did last year! If they had no qualms about not letting him start last year, then they should have made damn sure they had no issues this year!
> 
> This is getting laughable. Anyone for Contador or against Lemond is a Discovery lover and "worships at the LA shrine". The simple fact of the matter is that Discovery is a high profile team, with an American sponsor and this is a web site based in America. Thus, most of us on the site are probably American and more likely to be aware of this team and its members. Add to the fact that the kid put in some tremendous rides in the mountains and it makes for a great story. Too bad it has to be ruined by all the rumor and innuendo. I hope he kicks ass today!



Maybe he had his problem BEFORE the crash ...


----------



## gebbyfish (Apr 26, 2002)

bas said:


> Maybe he had his problem BEFORE the crash ...



The kind of clot that he more likely had was traumatic in origin. I'm basing all this on my clinical experience, not possession of information. I don't have any of his medical information for review, but a clot that forms INSIDE a blood vessel, would cause a stroke and would not be treatable with an operation. You would use thrombolytic drugs, clot-busting agents that are used to treat heart attacks and strokes and you would hope for the best. A full recovery would not be a guarantee, but recovery is enhanced the earlier the thrombolytics are used. There are generally two ways that blood that would need to be surgically removed would gather inside your skull: a ruptured and bleeding aneurysm or from trauma(causing a subdural hematoma as I mentioned in my previous post). In both cases, if surgery were performed, you could wind up with a titanium plate in your head, as Phil and Paul are frequently pointing out in Contador's situation. In the case of a ruptured aneurysm, especially one that required surgery, the patient would most likely be left with deficits, perhaps profound, and it would be EXTREMELY UNLIKELY that they could return to performing at the level of a professional cyclist. On the other hand, if a subdural hematoma is discovered early enough and surgery performed, a full recovery can be attained and it would be much more likely that the patient could return to their previous level of functioning.

It's a shame that dislike, or outright hatred of Discovery and Lance, has Contador taking these hits, on what should be a great story. It's really a shame. I don't know Contador, just like probably everyone here on this board, so I don't know if he's clean or not; but just because he is on Discovery or any other team for that matter, doesn't mean he is guilty or innocent of anything.


----------



## Len J (Jan 28, 2004)

gebbyfish said:


> It's a shame that dislike, or outright hatred of Discovery and Lance, has Contador taking these hits, on what should be a great story. It's really a shame. I don't know Contador, just like probably everyone here on this board, so I don't know if he's clean or not; but just because he is on Discovery or any other team for that matter, doesn't mean he is guilty or innocent of anything.


It comes from the history. Disco is either the team with the secret incredibly effective training program that people can't duplicate when they leave, or it's totally coincedental that every key rider (except Boonen) that left has either tested positive, been seriously implicated in doping or confessed. While I think some of what you read is Disco/Lance hating, more of it is a "where there is smoke, there is fire" attitude. 

Len


----------

