# Help!!!!



## Martyk22 (Jan 4, 2011)

I'm hoping someone here can provide same answers to the following issues I'm having with my brand new bike:

I recently purchased my dream Bike, a Look 695 with Record gruppo with a compact, Campy specific, FSA 50/34 Chainrings and Campy 12-25 cassette. A K-edge chain catcher was also installed. The 695 comes with integrated cranks so the FSA/Campy combo is the only option unless I want to eliminate the Look cranks, which I do not. 

When initially set up at my LBS on the bike stand all was apparently well. Unfortunately the winter weather precluded me from trying the bike outside. When I got home and put the bike on my trainer it would not shift consistently from the small to the large chainring. I brought the bike back, they readjusted and again, it worked fine in the store but when I got home, same result. I went back for a third adjustment and this time I brought my trainer with me to check it at the shop before I left. This time everything seemed fine except there was some chainrub, that trimming would not help, when I was in the small chainring and the 3 smallest cogs in the back. The LBS felt this was normal and told me to avoid those combos. Yesterday, the weather finally warmed up enough for me to take the bike outside and once again shifting from the smaller chainring to the larger one was inconsistent at best. On top of that within a half hour of riding when shifting from large to small chainring the chain dropped off the inside 3 times, despite the chaincatcher, the last of which caused me to tumble. 

This is my first experience with Campy. My last bike was a triple/ultegra which shifted flawlessly and smoothly and I have never dropped a chain with it. I was anticipating the Campy/double would be even better, unfortunately so far it's been just the opposite. 

The guys at my LBS are beside themselves. They're good people with lots of experience and they're trying everything they know to solve the issues, but I'm now extremely frustrated and mildly bruised  from the experience. I realized this is a new bike with new technologies but was hoping someone out there might have some ideas about how to go about solving these issues.

Thanks in advance,


----------



## Chris Keller (May 19, 2008)

Wow Martyk22, 

Sounds like issues I'm going thru. I just got my 695 and it has 2009 SR11. My LBS tried the compact chainrings I originally purchased (Specialties TA) but they didn't work. The LBS installed FSA Campy 11 specific chainrings (they have ramps and pins to assist shifting) and the shifting is markedly improved but while riding the front shifting to the big ring was still hit or miss... 

To make a long story short, Look recommended installing a Shimano front derailleur rear plate (not sure of the terminology) instead of using the Campy one and to torque the bolt to 7 newton meters. My mechanic is a little apprehensive and did NOT want to crack/break the carbon deraileur hanger so he torqued to only 5 nm. The Shimano is significantly thicker and stiffer and keeps the front derailleur from flexing on its mount. The Campy one allowed the front derailleur to flex too much. My LBS seems to think that the chainline for the crankset is off by about 2mm to the right. He is discussing this with Look and trying it out as I type this. I just spoke with him on the phone and he said that the front shifting with the new plate is great now but he has not test ridden the bike...I'll keep you posted.

Good luck!


----------



## skleins (May 19, 2010)

Yet another issue indirectly linked to manufacturers forging ahead with weird BB standards so you have to use specific cranksets!

Just a whole sloppy poo-like mess!!! :mad2: 

Hope you get it sorted!


----------



## Martyk22 (Jan 4, 2011)

*Chris*

Well I'm glad at least I'm not the only one, I think. Seven years of research supposedly went into this bike and they didn't know this was going to be a problem? 

Would you be willing to give me the name and number of your LBS so maybe my LBS can talk with them and compare notes? 

Thanks,

Marty


----------



## David Loving (Jun 13, 2008)

Another mix and match situation, it seems. Hope you can work it out. It's a shame you can't go full campagnolo.


----------



## lanpope (Nov 16, 2002)

Ok let's take one problem at a time.

*Small chainring / small cog chainrub* - Not uncommon, happens on lots of bikes. Depends some on chainstay length. Also keep in mind, you should have some trim on the front der from the shifter (at least I do with Chorus 11)

*Chain dropping off inside* - This should not be hard to resolve. Set the position of the front der. inner cage with the limit screws and make sure the chain can't drop. Then shift the chain to the big ring and set the limit screws so the cage on the f.d. doesn't contact the crankarms or push the chain off the big ring. Some fine tuning will be required, but getting the chain to stay on the rings is not that complicated.

The only thing that I know of that can make the shifting change during a ride is cable stretch, but if you have been riding the bike on the trainer (and shifting) the cables should be settled.

These seem to be pretty basic adjustments. I hate to say this, but do you have faith in the mechanics at your shop? Might be worth having somewhere else have a look.

Good luck - keep us updated.

LP


----------



## lanpope (Nov 16, 2002)

Chris Keller said:


> The Shimano is significantly thicker and stiffer and keeps the front derailleur from flexing on its mount. The Campy one allowed the front derailleur to flex too much.


If this was the issue, it seems like anyone with a campy front der would be having the problem. Fishy...

Hope it works out.

LP


----------



## Martyk22 (Jan 4, 2011)

*Ianpope*

Small chainring/small cog chainrub:

The chainrub starts once I get about halfway down the cogs. The trim corrects it until I get to the last three cogs at which point trimming no longer helps. The chain appears to be hitting the bottom of the front derailleur not the chainring itself. 

Chain Dropping off inside:

When on the bike stand the chain does not drop off, only when under the load of riding the bike.

Believe me I was starting to doubt my LBS but now that I see others are having similar issues and the Look has acknowledged the issue I'm less concerned about my LBS's abilities. I just hope there's a reasonable fix.


----------



## Martyk22 (Jan 4, 2011)

*from Look USA*

As far as Campy compatibility, there may be some issues with the front derailleur compatibility. The Campy washers are too small for the front derailleur hanger and the front derailleur may move out of place while in use. I recently had this brought to my attention from another guy who was setting up Campy SR on his 695

and......

If indeed this is what is going on you can try what I will outline below before using another gruppo. Please keep in mind, if you tries this, it will be at your own risk. (Disclaimer)
THIS PROCEDURE WILL BE MADE UNDER THE RESPONSIBILITY OF THE SHOP MECHANIC.
Swap the Campy mounting hardware with Shimano Dura-Ace hardware, as the washer is larger. Then put a small piece of sand paper between front derailleur and the carbon hanger. It is not very academic but it’s worth a try. Some Look guys in France did this with success.
Let me know what you decide to do.
Good luck!


My LBS tried this................it didn't work.


----------



## Chris Keller (May 19, 2008)

Mine is having issues shift up to the large chainring and with severe front derailleur rub at the ends of the spectrum...this grouppo was working perfectly on a 595 Ultra....i never had issues with the chain dropping off on the inside. Just to be safe, I added a Far and Near Chain deflector http://fairwheelbikes.com/far-and-near-chain-deflector-p-2310.html

Martyk22, check them out at this link http://procyclingwarehouse.com/


----------



## orange_julius (Jan 24, 2003)

lanpope said:


> Ok let's take one problem at a time.
> 
> *Small chainring / small cog chainrub* - Not uncommon, happens on lots of bikes. Depends some on chainstay length. Also keep in mind, you should have some trim on the front der from the shifter (at least I do with Chorus 11)
> 
> ...


A few other things to check, in relation to issue #2:

1. Was the FD cable routed onto the FD through the correct way? For 11sp this is different than how it was for 10sp.

2. How were the derailleur cables routed on the handlebar? The 11sp cables are a touch more sensitive to having to make sharp turns. So if your handlebar is very compact, this may be a problem.

3. Was the insertion of the cable housing onto the shifters done cleanly? If this wasn't done properly, then the cable housing may not have been set properly. 

Also to the OP: So far what you have shared are very avoidable issues, and I don't think blaming the FSA parts is justified yet. By the way, I don't understand the original post. Is it a full-on Campag groupset, including crankset, but with FSA chainrings? Or is it an FSA crankset? 



> These seem to be pretty basic adjustments. I hate to say this, but do you have faith in the mechanics at your shop? Might be worth having somewhere else have a look.


+1.

Going back to issue #1: You should fairly expect a bike shop to warn you about chain rub issues, especially if they sold you your frame. The dimensions of cranksets are standard, and hub widths are standard, so this is a matter of reading your chainstay length and warning you that you were likely to get chain rub.


----------



## Martyk22 (Jan 4, 2011)

*Oj*

The Look 695 comes with an integrated crankset that is not compatible with Campy chainrings, so you have to use the Campy specific FSA chainrings. Everthing else in the gruppo is Campy other than the crankset.


----------



## orange_julius (Jan 24, 2003)

Martyk22 said:


> The Look 695 comes with an integrated crankset that is not compatible with Campy chainrings, so you have to use the Campy specific FSA chainrings. Everthing else in the gruppo is Campy other than the crankset.


Ah ... you have that very clever-looking crankset system! I hope you'll be able to figure things out and truly enjoy your bike.


----------



## Chris Keller (May 19, 2008)

Martyk22, 
Have your bike shop check the chainline. Campagnolo recommends a chainline of 43.5mm. That means that measuring from the centerline of the bike to right between the small and large chainring should equal close to 43.5 mm (for a double chainring). 

I'm suspecting that the FSA chainrings with the Zed crankset move the chainline too far to the right (when viewed while seated on the bike). You may need some longer chainring bolts and some spacers to adjust/correct the mis-alignment. Once set up properly, your front shifting should be easy to adjust and once done should be perfect!


----------



## JimmyORCA (Mar 18, 2008)

Reading this is getting me a little worried, I am getting my 695sr next week and I am going to run 2011 SR11 with Rotor chainring(hope it fits). Maybe I should just use 7900 instead?
Please keep us updated on this matter and how it can be solved.


----------



## Chris Keller (May 19, 2008)

Jimmy, 
Don't be worried and don't cross over to the "dark side"...lol. My LBS mechanic is working with Look to correct this minor issue so I will keep you posted. This is a fantastic bike...with Campy, it will be awesome. With new technology there is always a bit of a learning curve...


----------



## JimmyORCA (Mar 18, 2008)

I will let you guys know how it goes next week when the frame arrives in the mail.


----------



## Martyk22 (Jan 4, 2011)

Chris,

I hope the fix is that simple. Have they done that with your bike and confirmed that it worked? My LBS has been speaking with Look and Campy and now they're talking about placing an adaptor in the crank that would allow replacing the Look Crank set with a Campy. The saga continues.............


----------



## orange_julius (Jan 24, 2003)

Martyk22 said:


> Chris,
> 
> I hope the fix is that simple. Have they done that with your bike and confirmed that it worked? My LBS has been speaking with Look and Campy and now they're talking about placing an adaptor in the crank that would allow replacing the Look Crank set with a Campy. The saga continues.............


Is the use of the FSA chainring really necessary? I'm not familiar with FSA's crankset chainrings dimensions, are they so different that a Campy FD can't run on them? Plenty of people run FSA's Shimano-dimensioned cranksets, with success. 

A flexy chainring/bolt should be avoided in the first place, in my opinion.


----------



## Martyk22 (Jan 4, 2011)

Chris,

I passed this info on to my LBS and this was his relpy:

Yes, that is a major part of the issue for sure some thing I am certainly aware of , that coupled with the fact that the FSA 11s rings are not designed for 2011 Campy come to find out. All 2011 Campy 11s stuff has seen a massive refinement from 2010 and that is not helping us in any way, especially with how critical the chain line is for there shifting performance.

All of these little discrepancies are adding up to create major shifting issues.


----------



## Martyk22 (Jan 4, 2011)

Ok... I'd enjoy your opinions

If it comes down to placing an adaptor and eliminating the Look cranks or switching to Shimano or SRAM which would you choose and why?


----------



## kbwh (May 28, 2010)

My personal pecking order
Di2 > Red > DuraAce

Your case is another +1 for the Campagnolo integrated drive train.


----------



## orange_julius (Jan 24, 2003)

Martyk22 said:


> Ok... I'd enjoy your opinions
> 
> If it comes down to placing an adaptor and eliminating the Look cranks or switching to Shimano or SRAM which would you choose and why?


Which post are you replying to?

And did you check the things that I suggested?

1. Was the FD cable routed onto the FD through the correct way? For 11sp this is different than how it was for 10sp.

2. How were the derailleur cables routed on the handlebar? The 11sp cables are a touch more sensitive to having to make sharp turns. So if your handlebar is very compact, this may be a problem.

3. Was the insertion of the cable housing onto the shifters done cleanly? If this wasn't done properly, then the cable housing may not have been set properly


----------



## Martyk22 (Jan 4, 2011)

OJ,

I appreciate your input, but we're pretty sure this is not an installation issue but rather a compatibility issue.


----------



## Chris Keller (May 19, 2008)

Martyk22, 
Personally, I wouldn't switch. I think you should be able to resolve this problem...If you find that you want to use a different crank, why not stick with the Campy crank? That should make everything work perfectly. 

I have no doubt that with the small spacers to set the chainrings to the correct chainline, all will be well. Mine should be done late next week. My mechanic did a test by installing a small (1mm) shim on the chainring bolts to move the chainrings 1mm inboard. He said there was better shifting. It shoud be perfect once he gets the chainline set correctly.


----------



## Tumppi (Sep 26, 2005)

My team use Stronglight 11/10 specific CT2 chainrings in our 695SR bikes. No issues at all. I first thought that team Cofidis is using FSA/LOOk chainrings, but in fact they are TA specialites/Look rings. Maybe the promlem is on FSA rings???

Tumppi


----------



## Chris Keller (May 19, 2008)

Good point Tumppi! My LBS tried the Specialties TA chainrings that I bought for the 695 (I like those rings) but my mechanic could not get even mediocre shifting to the big ring. He recommended the FSAs because he thought they were stiffer and had better ramping to assist the shifting. He has discovered that the chainline is off by nearly 5mm from what is recommended by Campy. All other dimensions look fine and match the specs required for Campy. I'm beginning to wonder if I should have kept the Specialties TA rings. The situation is frustrating...it is even more so because I have to work out of town and my only contact with my LBS is via phone calls...  

I will get to see them this weekend to discuss the matter in person.


----------



## ohbob (Feb 24, 2011)

I built 695 with Di2 and it worked flawlessly. But it was standard rings. I have another to build w Sram Red standard and another w SR. Compact. Why were FSA rings used when Campy makes compact? Or is it just a compact problem. Hmm


----------



## Chris Keller (May 19, 2008)

Ohbob,

Thanks for your input but...do you work as a mechanic in a bike shop or do you just do your own installs because it sounds like you must not deal with Campagnolo much. 

Their rings will not mount on a standard crankset with w 110 or 130 BCD. The compact rings are not the issue. (I live in a mountainous area called Colorado!) It appears to be a chainline issue which means the chainrings, when properly mounted, sit too far outboard to allow solid, precise shifting to the big ring. This MAY be related to using FSA rings but maybe not...we (my LBS mechanic and I) tried Specialties TA rings first with poor results too.


----------



## ohbob (Feb 24, 2011)

The 110 BCD Campy won't mount on the Look cranks? Even though they are molded for it. I was not aware of that.


----------



## orange_julius (Jan 24, 2003)

Chris Keller said:


> Ohbob,
> 
> Thanks for your input but...do you work as a mechanic in a bike shop or do you just do your own installs because it sounds like you must not deal with Campagnolo much.
> 
> Their rings will not mount on a standard crankset with w 110 or 130 BCD. The compact rings are not the issue. (I live in a mountainous area called Colorado!) It appears to be a chainline issue which means the chainrings, when properly mounted, sit too far outboard to allow solid, precise shifting to the big ring. This MAY be related to using FSA rings but maybe not...we (my LBS mechanic and I) tried Specialties TA rings first with poor results too.


This may be sacrilege but I have one bike with a Campag 10-sp Centaur drivetrain except for a Dura Ace FD. It works fine. Now, I know that my chainline is different from your chainline, but as far as I can tell the Centaur shifter can actuate the Dura Ace FD to its full range.


----------



## ohbob (Feb 24, 2011)

Chris Keller said:


> Ohbob,
> 
> Thanks for your input but...do you work as a mechanic in a bike shop or do you just do your own installs because it sounds like you must not deal with Campagnolo much.
> 
> Their rings will not mount on a standard crankset with w 110 or 130 BCD. The compact rings are not the issue. (I live in a mountainous area called Colorado!) It appears to be a chainline issue which means the chainrings, when properly mounted, sit too far outboard to allow solid, precise shifting to the big ring. This MAY be related to using FSA rings but maybe not...we (my LBS mechanic and I) tried Specialties TA rings first with poor results too.


Also, why if the chainline is too far outboard was previous person having trouble with rubbing in 3 highest gears and small chainring? That is contrary.


----------



## ohbob (Feb 24, 2011)

orange_julius said:


> This may be sacrilege but I have one bike with a Campag 10-sp Centaur drivetrain except for a Dura Ace FD. It works fine. Now, I know that my chainline is different from your chainline, but as far as I can tell the Centaur shifter can actuate the Dura Ace FD to its full range.


 It is sacrilege, but it does work fine. I have had to use a DA fd on Look 496 with Campy before because cranks were too far out.


----------



## goud (Jul 30, 2007)

*Just ordered a Look 695 with Campy SR*

I am glad I found this thread, I have put a hold on the bike pending a resolution.
Has anyone found any additional information regarding this issue anywhere please?


----------



## Martyk22 (Jan 4, 2011)

Update:

Look USA is working with a local chainring manufacturer in CA to forge chainrings that will work with Campy. They are in the process of testing them now. Otherwise Look France will have compatible rings to send state wise in 3 months or so. I'll keep you posted.


----------



## Martyk22 (Jan 4, 2011)

that's stateside ;(


----------



## RussellS (Feb 1, 2010)

ohbob said:


> The 110 BCD Campy won't mount on the Look cranks? Even though they are molded for it. I was not aware of that.


The Look cranks have both 110mm and 130mm bolt circles on them. All five bolt holes are either 110 or 130. Cmpagnolo makes its compact chainrings with four holes at 110mm and one hole at 112mm. So Campagnolo rings will not fit on a normal compact crankset. So the substitute chainrings need to be 110mm bcd for all holes and designed for 11 speed. An odd combination since only Campagnolo is 11 speed and Campagnolo compact cranks are 110/112mm bcd.


----------



## flatlander_48 (Nov 16, 2005)

Martyk22 said:


> Small chainring/small cog chainrub:
> 
> The chainrub starts once I get about halfway down the cogs. The trim corrects it until I get to the last three cogs at which point trimming no longer helps. *The chain appears to be hitting the bottom of the front derailleur not the chainring itself.*


One point that I haven't seen specifically mentioned:

Is the Front Derailleur the compact-specific one the Campagnolo makes? Evidently they felt that a slightly different deraileur configuration was needed to match the difference in diameter of the 50t from the 53t, but I don't think that the other guys do that.


----------



## orange_julius (Jan 24, 2003)

flatlander_48 said:


> One point that I haven't seen specifically mentioned:
> 
> Is the Front Derailleur the compact-specific one the Campagnolo makes? Evidently they felt that a slightly different deraileur configuration was needed to match the difference in diameter of the 50t from the 53t, but I don't think that the other guys do that.


Campagnolo doesn't make compact-specific ones anymore. They did that only for a short period of time.


----------



## [email protected] (Aug 11, 2008)

Keep the HED 2 cranks and put Di2 on. I cancelled my order fur my Look 695 SR Di2 specific bike. BL: got tired of the lack of accurate information regarding the wait.


----------



## ultimobici (Jul 16, 2005)

Sounds like this has nothing to do with Campag and everything to do with Look.

As for the specific problems encountered, has the chainline been properly checked? If it is off with the rings too far outboard the front mech will be at its extreme and may tend to shoot the chain inward on downshifts. Also check that the orientation of the front mech in relation to the seattube is as one would expect. By this I mean as you look from the side. If the brake-on is just slightly too far forward or backward the wrong part of the cage will be shifting the chain and making the mech mis-shift.


----------



## Chris Keller (May 19, 2008)

This is specualtion on my part but it appears that this issue is only on a few 695s. Maybe one of the crank molds is bad and these few cranks made it out to the public causing a few bikes to have a bad chainline. I suppose Shimano and SRAM are more tolerant of bad chainlines than Campagnolo. I was able to measure another 695 frameset and the chainline was correct so this issue is NOT with all 695s. And it may be easily corrected with a good crankset. 

Ultimobici, Thanks for your input. I checked out my bike at tmy LBS yesterday and the braze-on looks as if it is mounted correctly and it places the derailleur in the proper location to get proper shifting.


----------



## Martyk22 (Jan 4, 2011)

Chris,

What color frame do you have. Maybe we can nail this down to cranks on a specific color scheme.
I have black light gloss (non SR)


----------



## Martyk22 (Jan 4, 2011)

and what was the color of the one you measured?


----------



## Chris Keller (May 19, 2008)

All three (mine, yours and the one I measured) are the same...Black Light SL versions.


----------



## goud (Jul 30, 2007)

*any updates*



Chris Keller said:


> All three (mine, yours and the one I measured) are the same...Black Light SL versions.


Hi Guys,
I have my bike on hold pending an answer, anyone hear anything please?
Thanks


----------



## Martyk22 (Jan 4, 2011)

Both Chris' and my LBS are still trying to work on a fix. Should have more info tomorrow......hopefully.


----------



## Chris Keller (May 19, 2008)

goud, 

I don't think I would hold up an order due to what Marty and I are experiencing. There are quite a few other 695s built with Campy that work fine. Tumppi and Mtnvn2 are just a few.


----------



## Martyk22 (Jan 4, 2011)

Chris,

Are you aware of anyone else who has the 695 with Campy and Compact Chainrings?


----------



## Martyk22 (Jan 4, 2011)

update:

Sorry guys, I bailed, am switching to DuraAce. It's been two months of constant aggravation trying, unsuccessfully to solve this issue. Look has acknowledged there is a problem with this bike and Campy/compact combos and even offered me a full refund if I wanted to return the bike, but I love it and don't want to go that route. They're working on a fix which I'm sure in time will solve the problems but the weather is starting to get nice and I need a bike that works properly to ride. I suspect most people who already have this bike are using standard rings and it appears the issue is only with compacts. It will be interesting to see how JimmyOrca makes out with his Roto compacts. My DuraAce build should be done by early next week, I'm praying all goes smoothly.


----------



## ultraman6970 (Aug 1, 2010)

Martk22, as somebody said maybe was just hing of using a shimano FD, campagnolo record can use any FD u want to use.

From what u mentioned clearly the FD was set wrongly, since the moment the chain falls off the chainring is because it was set wrong, even is possible it was set too high. What FD wereu using a record one? those ones can ramp any chainring, compact and regulars. There are so many reasons to have that problem that at this point it surprise me that the LBS could not figure it out.

I have use shimano, sram and mix match cranksets and FD using record FDs and everything had worked fine all the time, this take me to think that maybe the cable was getting lose or getting trapp somewhere? Friction problems are headaches, maybe u god a friction problem...

Well good luck with shimano tho


----------



## Martyk22 (Jan 4, 2011)

ultraman

please read post. Look acknowledges the problem. It's not a setup issue.


----------



## JimmyORCA (Mar 18, 2008)

Give me a little more time, as I will be taking the bike apart to change out my handle bar. The bike has been sitting at the shop waiting for the new part to arrive and also have been busy with work. Will let you know next week.


----------



## Tumppi (Sep 26, 2005)

I measured all our bikes chainline and even i put compact rings (strongligt) to one bike. Chainline was inside a tolerance on each bike.

Are you really sure that your FD and chainrings have installed correctly? We have heard nothing about this problem from LOOK or Cofidis team, you are the only ones with this issue? 

Here is one setup with Campa and compacts with LOOK/TA rings. Sorry for the big picture.










Marty, I really hope that you can solve the problem with D-A, but I don't think so...

Tumppi


----------



## Martyk22 (Jan 4, 2011)

Tumppi,

It's not just a chainline issue. It's also an issue with an overly flexible derailleur hanger. We were told by Look that the Cofidis team replaced the carbon hangers with aluminum ones to deal with this issue. As the hangers are riveted to the frame, it's not something my LBS can address. 
My bike worked fine in the shop, it was only under the load of real riding that the issue surfaced. Have you tried riding that bike in the photo. I'd be curious of the result.


----------



## ultraman6970 (Aug 1, 2010)

This is so odd, 1st time I heard of a campagnolo cage being too weak, And I have used basically all the campy line of stuff even mixing it with other brands and I never gotten this problem ever. I can't even reproduce the problem at purpose  The only i can think of as a causes is friction, worm chain or maybe the FD frame tab in the wrong place.

Well good luck tho


----------



## Chris Keller (May 19, 2008)

ultraman,

The cage is not weak. The front derailleur hanger on the bike is a little weak tho. It was suggested by Look USA to use Shimano mounting hardware to mount the Campy front derailleur to the bike. The Shimano mounting hardware is a little thicker and stiffens up and provides some support for the carbon derailleur hanger. 

I still believe it is a chainline issue. Tumppi, thanks for the pic. It actually shows what appears to be a correct chainline. No wonder you are not having issues. When I look at my bike, the big ring (50 tooth) is about 5 mm further away from the chainstay. We have been telling Look USA that it is a chainline problem but they don't seem to believe it. They think it is because we are running compact rings. Well, if the chainline was correct, you could get great shifting regardless of what rings you were using. 

I have other bikes to ride so my 695 is staying at the bike shop and will not be paid for until it is fixed and works properly. It's sad but I need this bike to be perfect....a bike of this caliber should be perfect!!!...especially when the frameset costs $5,500!!!


----------



## Martyk22 (Jan 4, 2011)

It's not a Campy issue, it's a Look issue.


----------



## ultimobici (Jul 16, 2005)

Martyk22 said:


> It's not a Campy issue, it's a Look issue.


Not good at all. So why have they not just amended the frame design to the one Cofidis are presumably using? Look seem to have gone the same way as Cervelo designing product that is outside of industry standards. Genius! Glad my Time that predates 11 speed works perfectly. But then it's French not Tunisian:wink5:


----------



## ultraman6970 (Aug 1, 2010)

lol


----------



## Martyk22 (Jan 4, 2011)

Update:

So my LBS switched out the Campy Record for Shimano DuraAce, (at Look's expense I might add which I don't think they would have done if they didn't think there was a problem).
Front Derailleur now shifts fine, has not skipped a beat in 200 miles. The only issue, if in fact it is one, is that I'm getting some chainrub in the 3 largest cogs when in the large chainring. Interestingly, with the Campy I was getting chainrub with the 3 smallest cogs and the small chainring but none in the large chainring. Could be the lack of trimming in the large chainring in the new DuraAce.


----------



## orange_julius (Jan 24, 2003)

Martyk22 said:


> Update:
> 
> So my LBS switched out the Campy Record for Shimano DuraAce, (at Look's expense I might add which I don't think they would have done if they didn't think there was a problem).
> Front Derailleur now shifts fine, has not skipped a beat in 200 miles. The only issue, if in fact it is one, is that I'm getting some chainrub in the 3 largest cogs when in the large chainring. Interestingly, with the Campy I was getting chainrub with the 3 smallest cogs and the small chainring but none in the large chainring. Could be the lack of trimming in the large chainring in the new DuraAce.


Sorry to hear about your continuing problems. Doesn't LOOK owe you a new frame/crank combo? As you say, it's a LOOK issue, not a Campag nor Shimano issue. 

You certainly have a lot more patience and brand loyalty (to LOOK) than I do ...


----------



## Martyk22 (Jan 4, 2011)

They were willing to take back the bike for a full refund, but not willing to give me a new bike/frame. I honestly don't think they've figured out a solution yet and like I said, it's shifting fine other than a bit of chainrub that I can work around anyway. My hopes are that the solution will involve new chainrings that I can switch out easily enough if I still want to switch back to Campy.


----------



## orange_julius (Jan 24, 2003)

If I were you I would take the full refund and wait a year for them to figure things out, or switch to a different brand altogether. But I am not you . 

I don't understand why they are willing to give you a refund but not willing to give you a new frameset. Don't both options come out to the same thing financially? You can easily take the refund and put money down for another frameset, right?


----------



## Chris Keller (May 19, 2008)

Ok Gang...yes, I'm still dealing with this issue of very poor shifting to the big ring and lots of chain rubbing towards the ends (starting 3 cogs from the end of either side of the cogset). This is what has happened so far. 

According to a LookUSA "tech", I should use "big boy rings" because he said the problem is with the Campagnolo compact. LookUSA did rush out some prototype standard rings made by a company in California (PraxisWorks www.praxiscycles.com). These are supposed to be Campy specific and looked quite nice...just like the photos. My LBS mechanic installed them and NO JOY!! They did not work...it took nearly half a parking lot to get the chain into the big ring most of the time. (Yes, the derailleur is correctly adjusted...my mechanic is outstanding and knows his job VERY WELL...besides, installing and adjusting a Campy front derailleur is one of the easiest things to do, I personally built up another bike with Chorus 11...no issues).

My mechanic then installed longer chainring bolts with spacers (3-4mm worth) to adjust the FSA 11spd compact rings to the CORRECT chainline (43.5mm) for Campy (Shimano is the same, and SRAM is 44.5mm) and lo and behold!!! IT SHIFTS PERFECTLY WITH NO RUBBING AT ALL!!! We (me and my LBS) knew it would shift great with the correct chainline. I tried it today but left the bike at the shop because I cannot pay for and accept this bike with these spacers. 

The next step is for my LBS to talk to LookUSA and try to get another frameset to compare it to mine...I'm hoping this issue is only with my frameset and possibly a few others since Tumppi and many others ARE NOT having issues. The LookUSA "tech" has been slightly helpful but doesn't seem to be willing to do what he needs to do to make things right. I believe it was the same person Marty delt with...the person that did NOT want to replace the bike but was going to give him a refund. 

I think I am being more than patient with LookUSA on this issue...a $5,500 frameset should NOT NEED spacers to get proper shifting!!!! I am not using any weird setup or strange components...I'm using components from one of 3 major manufacturers! Having to use spacers is 100% unacceptable!!!! I DO NOT WANT A REFUND, I want this bike to work properly without spacers for the chanrings!! I really like the 695...I have only ridden it in the parking lot and down the street for about 1/2 mile but it is fantastic. I just need some help from LookUSA to get it corrected. 

I'm so sorry for venting...I'm just frustrated with the whole situation and I would like it resolved soon so I can get out and ride my 695. I hope to hear something early this week....


----------



## ultimobici (Jul 16, 2005)

Chris Keller said:


> Ok Gang...yes, I'm still dealing with this issue of very poor shifting to the big ring and lots of chain rubbing towards the ends (starting 3 cogs from the end of either side of the cogset). This is what has happened so far.
> 
> According to a LookUSA "tech", I should use "big boy rings" because he said the problem is with the Campagnolo compact. LookUSA did rush out some prototype standard rings made by a company in California. These are supposed to be Campy specific and looked quite nice...just like the photos. My LBS mechanic installed them and NO JOY!! They did not work...it took nearly half a parking lot to get the chain into the big ring most of the time. (Yes, the derailleur is correctly adjusted...my mechanic is outstanding and knows his job VERY WELL...besides, installing and adjusting a Campy front derailleur is one of the easiest things to do, I personally built up another bike with Chorus 11...no issues).
> 
> ...


Sounds like the 695 has a similar problem to the Cervelo S3. It has been "cleverly" designed but the end result is it won't work properly with 11 speed. If this is how Look operate when there is a set-up issue, how are they going to be with a major warranty issue? Good Luck!


----------



## Martyk22 (Jan 4, 2011)

Chirs,

I really hope you continue to pursue this issue with Look. I went through so many months of aggravation, not only with this issue, but they also sent the wrong sized stem with the bike originally, and after waiting two months with promise after promise that the new stem was coming from France, they told me they decided that they weren't going to carry that sized stem because the stem lengths could be satisfied with every other size. So while I was supposed to get a 90/100 stem, they sent me an 80/90 and told me to just use the 90 configuration of the 80/90. They then hung up the phone without letting me respond. WTF! 
Their "head in the sand" technique of dealing with issues is quite unbelievable to me and in the end their down right rudeness was shocking. I've seen others frustrated with LookUSA and it seems many bike shops have dropped the Look line for this reason alone. It's a shame. Maybe Look France is listening. 

Please keep us posted.


----------



## Cinelli 82220 (Dec 2, 2010)

ultimobici said:


> So why have they not just amended the frame design to the one Cofidis are presumably using?


Well it looks like Cofidis isn't even using the goofy 695 crank. 

http://www.cyclingnews.com/features/photos/race-tech-more-from-scheldeprijs/167688

If Look is willing to give you a refund, take it!


----------



## Martyk22 (Jan 4, 2011)

Very interesting................could a recall be in Look's future? :frown2:


----------



## Chris Keller (May 19, 2008)

*Chainline measurement on 695?*

Tumppi, 

Could you please give me the measurement of the chainline on your bikes? You said it was "inside tolerance" but I don't know what that actually means. An exact measurement would be incredibly helpful. See Sheldon Brown's link: All About Bicycle Chainline 

Could you also measure the distance from the outer chainring to the right chainstay? These measurements can give me some insight into the possible issues with my 695. 

I sent my bike to Look USA for evaluation. They said it was fine. We tried another Look crankset with no improvement on shifting. Look USA did replace the front deraileur hanger with a newer, much stiffer carbon hanger. Look USA admitted that there is a problem with the chainline however, they said that there are only issues when using Campy 11 spd. 

I don't really buy that...I believe there are perfectly fine cranksets with proper chainlines (43.5mm +1mm)...you and your team and well as Cofidis are prime examples...

thanks for all of your help!!

Chris Keller 





Tumppi said:


> I measured all our bikes chainline and even i put compact rings (strongligt) to one bike. Chainline was inside a tolerance on each bike.
> 
> Are you really sure that your FD and chainrings have installed correctly? We have heard nothing about this problem from LOOK or Cofidis team, you are the only ones with this issue?
> 
> ...


----------



## dstel61 (Nov 22, 2011)

*look 695*

I recently purchased a Look 695 w Campy super record 11.
We used the Praxis chain rings that were recomended by Look .
I had 5 or 6 chain derailments . Any incline caused the chain to come off.
My local bike shop swapped the Praxis rings for FSA .
No problems since the swap . The bike shifts flawlessly


----------



## viendo (Jul 20, 2009)

*2012 Look 695 Mondrian*

I just started riding a 2012 695 with 2010 Super Record shifters and derailleurs, a KMC 11spd chain and the new Praxis rings in 50/34. The bike has the redesigned front derailleur hanger. I have put about 150 miles on the bike, and front shifting has been absolutely flawless in variable terrain. Even better than on my 586 R-Light with Zipp Vumaquad cranks. I admit I did not buy the frame when it originally came out in 2011 because of the problems I read about on this site, but I think the redesign did the trick and the Praxis rings have worked better than I expected. With the Zipp crank shifting was never problematic, but was never smooth either,


----------



## Praxis Works (Dec 21, 2011)

Hi dstel61, 
Very very curious about your LOOK rings (made by Praxis) having issues and I'd like to help you out as those rings should be snappy and quick shifting. We stand behind our forged ring sets and will help you out...just want to find out what's happening.

-What ring set was it and what shop? 
-Was it the 53/39 or the 50/34?

Ping me back here or on our website and we'll help you out for sure!
-Praxis Works


----------



## dstel61 (Nov 22, 2011)

*look 695*

Thanks for the reply.
The bike was purchased at ATA cycles 
The problem was derailment on the front chain rings (53/39) under a heavy load. 
Husan at ATA cycles swapped the chain rings to FSA for Campy 11
He told me the chain rings from Praxis were cut backwards .
The FSA works really well.


----------



## OffRoadRoadie (May 15, 2006)

*Any update on Look 695 chain ring issue?*

I'm having an issue with chain ring suck (2013 Look 695, Campy 11 SP Record, ZED2 crank with Look supplied Praxis Works 34x50 rings). Less than 500 miles on frame (2011 Record). Huge issue! 
LBS replaced FD (Record), installed replacement Praxis rings, installed a new Record 11sp chain and the chain still sucks into the chainstay and or the FD when shifting down from 50 to 34.


----------



## Praxis Works (Dec 21, 2011)

Hi OffRoadRoadi - 
I sent you an email and want to make sure you received it. 
We're stepping in to see what is going on.
[email protected]


----------



## bikingmeditation (Apr 23, 2013)

I have the same issue as Chris Keller. It won't shift from the small front chainring into the big chainring. It appears as though there is some flex in the derailleur and the carbon brazeon. it might also be the chainring and a bad chain line, but it seems like the flex is the main issue. I have the new sram red with yaw and the lbs can get it to shift on the stand but on the trainer with even the slightest resistance, it doesn't want to go into the big ring! 

Is this a Look issue? How can an $8000 bike shift worse and have more shifting issues than my $1200 bike?!


----------

