# Is there a conspiracy in the bike world against Colnago??



## nicensleazy (Aug 3, 2008)

Maybe its just me, but is there a conspiracy in the bike world against Colnago. When I say bike world, I mean the jurno's. Why do I say this, well as most of us know, the EPS is a fantastic top of the range racing frame. Those of you who own one or have been on a demo will testify.....in fact, its bloody orgasmic! But, these seem to have been over looked by the jurno's. In fact, the latest test ride in Cycle.com was around 4 paragraphs on this bike. I just can't get my head around it. Quite frankly, its one of the best frames out there in its league. However, I must admit, I think Colnago could do more to promote this frame and get it out there more. Is it just me, or does anyone else feel the same. Perhpas I just need to increase my medication! :mad2:


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## deadlegs2 (Oct 3, 2009)

Everyone knows Treks are the only good bikes..


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## Bocephus Jones II (Oct 7, 2004)

Are Colnagos good bikes?


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## smokva (Jul 21, 2004)

What is Colnago?


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## Mapei (Feb 3, 2004)

Lately, Ernesto has been wandering around the shop, waving his old brazing torch at his carbon frames. This is the reason why the CX-1 rear stays aren't straight like they oughta be. Can you blame the journos for being concerned?


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## bigdeal (Jul 24, 2002)

Maybe it's that they remember what Colnago used to be, what it meant, and lament what has become.


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## Gnarly 928 (Nov 19, 2005)

My team rides CX-1s. Everyone loves em. We will be on them again next season..
Do they count as Colnagos?


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## fabsroman (Jul 14, 2006)

Gnarly 928 said:


> My team rides CX-1s. Everyone loves em. We will be on them again next season..
> Do they count as Colnagos?


Nope!!!!!!!!!!!!!! That should really get things hopping in this thread.


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## gibson00 (Aug 7, 2006)

I think Colnago gets a lot of criticism for the fact that they are in the upper end of bike prices, but do not follow the technological trends. To a lot of people, that means paying a lot for old technology.
For me, it means paying a lot for what is still some of the highest quality and dependable carbon frames, with smart geometry and plenty of sizes, and no gimmicks that do next to nothing in terms of performance and often hurt reliability.

My .02


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## mtbbmet (Apr 2, 2005)

I think there is as much technology, if not more, in an EPS than there is in any other frame on the market. Who else uses tapered, butted, interior ribbed tubes?
While Trek and Giant are working on answers to questions nobody asked (ISP's) and calling it "advanced technology", Colnago are making better frames with "dated technology" using much more advanced techniques.


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## Gnarly 928 (Nov 19, 2005)

*Long opinionated response.*



mtbbmet said:


> I think there is as much technology, if not more, in an EPS than there is in any other frame on the market. Who else uses tapered, butted, interior ribbed tubes?
> While Trek and Giant are working on answers to questions nobody asked (ISP's) and calling it "advanced technology", Colnago are making better frames with "dated technology" using much more advanced techniques.


"Tapered, butted, interior ribbed tubes"..."Much more advanced techniques" "There is as much technology, if not more, in an EPS than there is in any other frame.."

I'll give you the ISP as a 'question nobody asked'. The Ridley Noah I have with an ISP IS hell for stiff, but not having a seat post is, IMHO, limiting. Traveling with the bike is more difficult, re-selling it will be more difficult, adjusting your fore and aft saddle position is limited, as is 'fine-tuning' the ride height with shims or fancy brand-specific widgets. But it looks like the bike manufacturers are going to keep using the ISP to try to sell more frames. "advanced technology"...? 

Tapered, ____,___, Tubes. That is a problem for Colnago with the majority of it's line right now. Tubes. Why still tubes, however 'technologically advanced' you've tried to make those tubes? Carbon can and is be used more effectively when it's configured without having to think "Tube" or "Lug" or "Frame-jig" or "traditional look".

When carbon was a 'new' material for bike makers, tubes/lugs were how all bikes had always been made. It's understandable that they began using the stuff by making carbon tubes and lugs and then built the bikes from those...It's what they knew..It was proven and safe. As long as they made sure the tubes were at least as strong as the tubes made from steel or alloy and that they used good glue, the bikes came out lighter and got better and better. And Colnago has never just 'jumped on the bandwagon', changing his bikes just because. 

They've kept building great bikes, and let the other manufacturers do the majority of the experimentation. Oh, they tried a few special bikes from carbon, selling them as 'special editions'. And some of the experiments from other makers have been big embarrassing mistakes...Look at some of DeRosa's recent flops...but it seems that the tube and lug building configuration has been 'smooshed' by newer methods now. Bypassed. Overtaken.

Yes, Colnago's made from tube and lugs are great bikes, outstanding bikes. They've been "spun" every which way here on the RBR forum, to justify the method. But just yesterday on this very forum , above the content in the site Net Ads, there was a shop with listings of 'special deals' on high end frames..."Race-something.." the ad is not up today...anyhow, there were a few sizes available from many of the various maker's frames.....but Colnago...there were dozens of listings for almost every size at substantial discounts--like a $grand off retail price--...The lug and tube Colnagos aren't selling anymore. For a reason? Has everyone in the world made a big mistake by now liking carbon bikes built in more modern ways? Have we all been fooled, except for a few "real" Colnago fans? Are all those Pro racers wrong by riding monocoque frames instead of EPs and ECs or Look lugged frames? Would they all rather ride traditional Colnagos if they had a choice?
Prolly not.


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## deadlegs2 (Oct 3, 2009)

"""Are all those Pro racers wrong by riding monocoque frames instead of EPs and ECs or Look lugged frames? Would they all rather ride traditional Colnagos if they had a choice?"""

Would they ride a Canyon? Pro racers ride what is provided to them.


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## mtbbmet (Apr 2, 2005)

Gnarly 928 said:


> ....anyhow, there were a few sizes available from many of the various maker's frames.....but Colnago...there were dozens of listings for almost every size at substantial discounts--like a $grand off retail price--


So, what you are saying is that because manufacturers/distributors/shops are willing to punt out high end frames at massive discounts, but Colnago isn't, that Colnago must be struggling?
What that says to me is that the industry is currently flooded with carbon bikes that no one wants to pay top dollar for. But that people are willing to pay silly amounts for a tube and lug frame.
Maybe I'm missing what you are trying to say.
My point in my previous post was less about how Colnago's are using advanced tech, and more about how the rest of the industry spins small changes in design as "high-tech".

Just so no one thinks I'm a complete tool, I did stop typing for 90sec for a moment of silence.
In Flanders Fields the poppies grow.


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## Gnarly 928 (Nov 19, 2005)

deadlegs2 said:


> """Are all those Pro racers wrong by riding monocle frames instead of EPs and ECs or Look lugged frames? Would they all rather ride traditional Colnagos if they had a choice?"""
> 
> Would they ride a Canyon? Pro racers ride what is provided to them.


 "If they had a choice" means if they could choose to ride any bike at all, not just what is provided to them. Sure, they'll ride what they are told to ride. But being pros who use bikes as a tool, ya think they would, given the choice, ride a steel tube bike? Or a carbon tube bike? Maybe a few would, but most would grab the best thing available and use that.

My point is/was...are there very few people buying lugged and carbon tube frames anymore because of some reason I am not seeing or is it because the method is not up to date? If the other methods of making a frame from carbon and other fabric/fiber resin matrix materials result in a "better" frame, the carbon tube and lug method is now a bit dated. Sales seem to show that is the perception of most riders lately.

Would you first build a plank from carbon fiber and fiberglass and then rivet and bend it into shape to build a "High Tech" race boat the same way as they always built a viking longship out of wood? No, they built em like that because they had to, given the limitations of wood, which was all they had .. You can do much more with molds and configure the hypothetical boat to work much better... So building a bike from tubes, because bikes used to be made from metal and that limited you to tubes.... not so modern, not the most effective use of the material...


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## Gnarly 928 (Nov 19, 2005)

mtbbmet said:


> So, what you are saying is that because manufacturers/distributors/shops are willing to punt out high end frames at massive discounts, but Colnago isn't, that Colnago must be struggling?
> 
> No, what I said was that there were many MORE Colnagos discounted on that website than any other brand.
> 
> So it's Colnago who is punting out unwanted frames, or at least that dealer of Colnagos is offering dozens of EPs, ECs, C-50s etc etc in an almost full range of sizes.


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## fabsroman (Jul 14, 2006)

Gnarly 928 said:


> "Tapered, butted, interior ribbed tubes"..."Much more advanced techniques" "There is as much technology, if not more, in an EPS than there is in any other frame.."
> 
> I'll give you the ISP as a 'question nobody asked'. The Ridley Noah I have with an ISP IS hell for stiff, but not having a seat post is, IMHO, limiting. Traveling with the bike is more difficult, re-selling it will be more difficult, adjusting your fore and aft saddle position is limited, as is 'fine-tuning' the ride height with shims or fancy brand-specific widgets. But it looks like the bike manufacturers are going to keep using the ISP to try to sell more frames. "advanced technology"...?
> 
> ...


I think you are overlooking price point here. For those that want a Colnago, but cannot afford $4,500 for a lugged carbon fiber frame like the EPS or the C50, they have the monocoque Taiwan Colnagos to choose from at a substantially lower price point. What does the CLX sell for? About the same that a Dream HX was selling for a couple of years ago. Even the CX-1 is well below the price of the EPS.

So, is it that people believe lugged bikes are outdated and the monocoque designs are so technologically better, or is it that the lugged Colnagos, made in Italy, cost a decent amount more than the Colnago monocoque frames, made in Taiwan?

Or, is it just that manufacturers are trying to sell the monocoque designs as the newest and greatest thing out there, so they can sell more frames and possibly frames that are cheaper to build? A lot of the sheeple perception has to do with marketing, not really what is the best out there.

There are so many what ifs to this entire thing, that I don't think you can come up with a single reason for all the discounted frames. It could very well be that a shop or two was going under that had Colnagos. It could be stuff still left over from Veltec. It could be a shop or twos Colnagos that will no longer be carrying Colnagos under Colnago America and they are blowing out their stock. Who really knows. Just don't let me see a deeply discounted EPS in WXIN, if they even made it in that paint scheme. Or an EP for that matter. Heck, don't let me see either of those frames at a discounted price for a Saronni paint scheme either.


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## mtbbmet (Apr 2, 2005)

my guess is that these frames in question were Veltec blowouts. They were giving frames away months ago when they lost the line. I know, I work in a shop and got one myself. The only way I'd ever be able to afford one. I got a 09 CX-1 for about 1/2 of the 10 wholesale price through Colnago America.


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## Professor funk (Sep 28, 2008)

deadlegs2 said:


> Everyone knows Treks are the only good bikes..


Obviously, everyone doesn't.


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## Jbartmc (Sep 14, 2007)

*Lugged Frames Are Still Popular*



Gnarly 928 said:


> "If they had a choice" means if they could choose to ride any bike at all, not just what is provided to them. Sure, they'll ride what they are told to ride. But being pros who use bikes as a tool, ya think they would, given the choice, ride a steel tube bike? Or a carbon tube bike? Maybe a few would, but most would grab the best thing available and use that.
> 
> My point is/was...are there very few people buying lugged and carbon tube frames anymore because of some reason I am not seeing or is it because the method is not up to date? If the other methods of making a frame from carbon and other fabric/fiber resin matrix materials result in a "better" frame, the carbon tube and lug method is now a bit dated. Sales seem to show that is the perception of most riders lately.
> 
> Would you first build a plank from carbon fiber and fiberglass and then rivet and bend it into shape to build a "High Tech" race boat the same way as they always built a viking longship out of wood? No, they built em like that because they had to, given the limitations of wood, which was all they had .. You can do much more with molds and configure the hypothetical boat to work much better... So building a bike from tubes, because bikes used to be made from metal and that limited you to tubes.... not so modern, not the most effective use of the material...


Don't be fooled by appearances. The all-new Trek Madone (that carried Alberto and Lance to the podium this year) is a lugged frame, and it is one of the best sellers of carbon race bikes. Take a look at the stepjoint technology of Trek (http://www.trekbikes.com/us/en/bikes/road/madone/6_series/technology/) and you'll see that it is still making bikes with tubes. 

If winning the best races is the measure of the best technology, Trek has dominated the Tour de France with Lance and Alberto. So, the tubed frames still are relevant, and my choice.


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