# what is the definition of Retro-Classic?



## Touch0Gray (May 29, 2003)

What are we talking here?....15 years old?....20?......25....?

I tried searching but came up empty handed..


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## locustfist (Feb 21, 2009)

retro is one thing, classic is another

Retro would be a bike that is essentially new but styled in a classic manner

classic on the other hand is up for debate as to how old a bike has to be to be classic...as 10 people and you'll get 11 answers on how old a bike has to be to be classic


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## Mapei (Feb 3, 2004)

The traditional definition of a classic is a racing or touring bicycle with steel frame, downtube friction shifters and quill stem, where the frame at least was made before 1985. Of course, I'm a weenie about this stuff, and to me a true classic must not only have a lugged frame with high zoot tubing, it must have traditional toe clips & straps and sew up tires, as well. No gas pipe, clinchered, stem-shiftered entry level bike may apply.

Then again, any Trek from 2005 or before, with Ultegra or better, ought to be considered a classic, too.


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## veloron (Jul 3, 2011)

Mapei said:


> a true classic must not only have a lugged frame with high zoot tubing, it must have traditional toe clips & straps and sew up tires, as well. No gas pipe, clinchered, stem-shiftered entry level bike may apply.


Don't you just love all the fleabay sales of "classic/vintage" Schwinn Varsitys selling for 2-3 times original price?
To the OP; I think a person's age might have something to do with the perception of "classic".


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## latman (Apr 24, 2004)

Mapei said:


> The traditional definition of a classic is a racing or touring bicycle with steel frame, downtube friction shifters and quill stem, where the frame at least was made before 1985. Of course, I'm a weenie about this stuff, and to me a true classic must not only have a lugged frame with high zoot tubing, it must have traditional toe clips & straps and sew up tires, as well. No gas pipe, clinchered, stem-shiftered entry level bike may apply.
> 
> Then again, any Trek from 2005 or before, with Ultegra or better, ought to be considered a classic, too.


Surely you could buy a Brand new bike built to those specs today as Shimano at least makes 10spd DT shifters now , so that needs more detail 

I personally would call Hinaults first gen look *click* pedals (84?) classics as I would lance's 8spd *STI* steel Merckx and some early *Carbon* frames eg TVT ,Colnago C35 , Kestrel 4000 and others classics.


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## kbwh (May 28, 2010)

I like the L'Eroica rules, which they translate so wonderfully:


> “Bici eroiche”‐*Historical bikes means all road race bikes built before 1987, with switch lever on the oblique loom tube, toe clips and belts, external brake wires.


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## Touch0Gray (May 29, 2003)

well if i just photograph them in black and white does that make them vintage?..lol

I was just curious, I have a 1984 steel lugged (mangaloy), a 1985 alloy w/cromo fork and a 1997 lugged steel (531).

I am restoring the 97 Waterford now and was wondering how to explain a 14 year old bike to non believers.....old raises eyebrows whereas vintage or classic would bring ooooh's and ahhhh's.

I would drop the color in the pic's but I am too tired/lazy/busy....hehehehehe


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## Dave Hickey (Jan 27, 2002)

I'd say it's a moving target... 

Obviously 70's-80's steel seems to dominate but I'd consider the first US Postal carbon Treks to be classics too,.,,,


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## Touch0Gray (May 29, 2003)

sigh.......so my new/old bikes is just a new/old bike.......lol

I thought I could pigeon-hole her with a title......


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## Touch0Gray (May 29, 2003)

no matter, she still has her own bedroom for now!


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## onespeedbiker (May 28, 2007)

kbwh said:


> I like the , which they translate so wonderfully:_“Bici eroiche”‐*Historical bikes means all road race bikes built before 1987, with switch lever on the oblique loom tube, toe clips and belts, external brake wires_


 Your L'Eroica rules seem to have lost something in the translation. Here is a more accurate translation: 

_By 'bikes for the Eroica' we mean all the road race bikes built before 1987, with downtube shift levers, pedal cages and toe straps, brake cables routed outside the frame tubes. Bikes with more recent built frames can be used, but features like handlebars, shifters, pedals, etc. must be vintage.
_

This should cover latman's wants.


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## minutemaidman (Jun 14, 2010)

I consider my "old" bike to be a retro/classic. My perception is my reality.


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## velodog (Sep 26, 2007)

I'd say that if the bicycle is "Period Correct" it's a Classic but if it's a vintage frame that's been updated with newer components, wheels or group it's Retro-Classic.
As far as time line it'd have to be mostly pre carbon to qualify for either. I say mostly because the earliest round tubed bonded into aluminum lugged carbon bikes are surely classics.


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## frpax (Feb 13, 2010)

As mentioned, it is different things to different people. 
Also, as mentioned, classic & retro are 2 different breeds of cat.

For me, Classic is "upper end" bikes made before 1990. 
I've got a 1985 Raleigh USA Team Professional / 555 that I consider a true classic, as it was one of their upper end framesets for that year. But in 1985, Raleigh also made some pretty junky stuff, that I would not consider to be "classic", even if it was in pristine condition.


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## velodog (Sep 26, 2007)

frpax said:


> For me, Classic is "upper end"


Agree.


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## Don4 (Jul 29, 2010)

To me, classic would apply even to bikes of some age, preferably lugged steel, built by craftsmen.

In addition to my carbon fiber wonderFelt, which is not a classic, but may be someday (under a different definition) if it doesn't asplode in the sunlight...I have under my roof:

A 1982 Trek 715 (full Reynolds 531), sport geometry, Campy hubs, Suntour Cyclone Mark II Microlite GT deraillers, Grand Compe brakes, and Christophe toe clips. Classic.

View attachment 245605


A 1983 Trek 400 (Tange Mangalloy - main tubes only), the frame made in Japan, imported here, and then finished and assembled here -- the first of the International Series, and the beginning of a slippery slope. Not classic, but not a bad bike, and my trusty steed for many years. Also my first non-department store bike.

View attachment 245606


A 1983 Trek 560. Lowly Reynolds 501 main triangle only. Manganese alloy fork and stays. Entry level racing bike, but racing geometry quite similar to higher end Trek 660's, 760's, and 970. Suntour BlueLine derailleurs. DiaCompe Aero AC500Q brakes. Interesting in that it was the only bike in Trek's lineup in 1983 where the brake cables actually disappeared under the handlebar tape. Oh, and don't forget the standard Blackburn water bottle cage. Surely any bike that came with one of these as original equipment must qualify as a _Classic!_

View attachment 245607


Sure, I'm romanticizing the Trek 560. And why not?! It was a great bike back in 1983, when in spite of trying very hard, and wishing with all my might, I could not come up with $400 it commanded. At the time, I remember test riding I believe, a Miyata 310 (okay, but not as responsive as the 560), a Fuji (Team Fuji?) which I found twitchy, and maybe a Schwinn Supersport. I loved the way that Trek 560 responded, the way it fit me, and the way it looked. Today, thru the magic of eBay, I finally have it. Original down to the bar tape, although it is missing the Blackburn cage. 

To me, it's a classic. Partially because of the hand-built lugged steel construction, partially because of the design (which is amazingly similar in geometry to my carbon fiber 2011 Felt F3), but mostly because of the joy I feel when it is underneath me, rolling on the miles.

-- Don4

P.S. Touch0Gray, I now pronounce both you, and your beautiful, yellow Waterford, a classic. You may now ride your bike! :thumbsup:


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## kbwh (May 28, 2010)

onespeedbiker said:


> Your L'Eroica rules seem to have lost something in the translation.


Indeed. They came off an English language PDF on the L'Eroica web site.


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## Touch0Gray (May 29, 2003)

Don4 said:


> P.S. Touch0Gray, I now pronounce both you, and your beautiful, yellow Waterford, a classic. You may now ride your bike! :thumbsup:


about that...I need to turn it back into a bike again....we are looking at a raw frame and fork with only the bb cable race, 4 stainless bottle boss screws and a seatpost screw and seatpost. I will press in a headest this week if I have the time, throw a stem and bars and wheels on it so it at least looks the part till i get my decals.


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## raymonda (Jan 31, 2007)

Touch0Gray said:


> about that...I need to turn it back into a bike again....we are looking at a raw frame and fork with only the bb cable race, 4 stainless bottle boss screws and a seatpost screw and seatpost. I will press in a headest this week if I have the time, throw a stem and bars and wheels on it so it at least looks the part till i get my decals.


You might want to face the headtube and fork crown before pressing the cup and race on. I see there is some paint there, which may throw somethings off.


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## Touch0Gray (May 29, 2003)

raymonda said:


> You might want to face the headtube and fork crown before pressing the cup and race on. I see there is some paint there, which may throw somethings off.


that's a given


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## Don4 (Jul 29, 2010)

Touch0Gray said:


> about that...I need to turn it back into a bike again....we are looking at a raw frame and fork with only the bb cable race, 4 stainless bottle boss screws and a seatpost screw and seatpost. I will press in a headest this week if I have the time, throw a stem and bars and wheels on it so it at least looks the part till i get my decals.


So you did decide to *pull the trigger* on getting the decals. Good! I knew you were considering it but missed the final decision. My wife commented last night that she's glad I'm "restoring" my Trek 560 vs a car, because then she doesn't have to deal with a car under a tarp in the garage. Maybe I can turn this relief on her part into getting it repaired without too much protest. No rust, but plenty of chips, and a fresh Joe Bell finish in the original Slate Gray metallic will set off my first Campy equipped bike nicely. This could end up being one helluva of expensive mid-life crisis. But you did warn her, T0G.


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## Touch0Gray (May 29, 2003)

I didn't really warn her....but I did apologize!

btw Don, pm me your e-mail add......sometimes I just don't care to say stuff out loud on a public forum....if ya catch my drift!


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## Don4 (Jul 29, 2010)

Touch0Gray said:


> I didn't really warn her....but I did apologize!


"I'm soooooooo sorry!" can be read _both_ ways! 



Touch0Gray said:


> btw Don, pm me your e-mail add......sometimes I just don't care to say stuff out loud on a public forum....if ya catch my drift!


_Done!_


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## Touch0Gray (May 29, 2003)

Don4 said:


> "I'm soooooooo sorry!" can be read _both_ ways!


I was apologizing on YOUR behalf.....not mine....ain't my wife...LOL


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