# First Road Bike: New vs Used???



## pnmgroup (Dec 10, 2011)

I am shopping for road bike for commuting and also weekend riding. I've never bought road bike before and I am looking to spend about $1000. My friend is selling his $2000 bike that he bought a year ago for half, $1000. Should I get new or used? Although he does good maintenance, he is a heavy rider. (rides couple hundred miles a week)
What are your suggestions?


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## tihsepa (Nov 27, 2008)

If your buddys bike fits and is in good shape its worth it. New or used dosent matter if its the wrong bike for you.


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## TWB8s (Sep 18, 2003)

tihsepa said:


> If your buddys bike fits and is in good shape its worth it. New or used dosent matter if its the wrong bike for you.



By "wrong" I suspect he means "it's wrong if it doesn't fit you." If it's a road bike and you're wanting to ride on the road then you've got the right tool for the job. There are finer points of the bike that can only be answered by talking to a person in an LBS. Do you live in a hilly area? Do you intend to do group rides for training? What, if anything, are you training for? Do you wnat to get fit? Do you wnat to race? Do you intend to do triathlons? I could go on and on but you'd be better served by an in person salesman at a shop. You may even buy from them. 

Once you know what you want in size and style, you can look at the LBS offerings or you can patiently hunt ebay and craigslist for one that is in your budget.


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## NJBiker72 (Jul 9, 2011)

pnmgroup said:


> I am shopping for road bike for commuting and also weekend riding. I've never bought road bike before and I am looking to spend about $1000. My friend is selling his $2000 bike that he bought a year ago for half, $1000. Should I get new or used? Although he does good maintenance, he is a heavy rider. (rides couple hundred miles a week)
> What are your suggestions?


Sounds like a steal if it fits and is in good shape. But make sure it fits.

For that reason, I would normally suggest a new bike, so you get the benefit of the LBS to help you out.


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## ecub (Sep 2, 2011)

I also agree to make sure it fits. FYI, just because you can adjust the seat doesn't mean it's going to be a perfect fit. Since the bike belongs to your friend, they will probably allow you to bring the bike into an LBS to check for fitting. The LBS may or may not charge you for the fitting,

Also, be sure to post the bike manufacturer and model of the bike as well as pictures. Just becuase it can be ridden on the road, doesn't classify the bike as a road bike.


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## pnmgroup (Dec 10, 2011)

we are both same height/weight and that is why he is recommeding to buy his..Bike is clean and in good shape,, But does mileage matter?? this is the only concern..


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## RJP Diver (Jul 2, 2010)

what kind of bike is it?


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## NJBiker72 (Jul 9, 2011)

pnmgroup said:


> we are both same height/weight and that is why he is recommeding to buy his..Bike is clean and in good shape,, But does mileage matter?? this is the only concern..


Your probably good then. Question, do you have the same inseam/size pants? That could effect it if one of you has long legs/torso, compared to the other but you are probably good.

If the bike is cared for and a year old, I doubt he wore anything out other than maybe tires.


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## ecub (Sep 2, 2011)

pnmgroup said:


> we are both same height/weight and that is why he is recommeding to buy his..Bike is clean and in good shape,, But does mileage matter?? this is the only concern..


What matters is the arm length and inseem length. You want enough standover room, meaning, when you stand up with the bike, you don't want to stand on your toes so your jewels to hit the top tube. Arm length as well, since you don't want to make sure you're not too stretched when riding.


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## bwwROADBIKE (Sep 10, 2011)

I'll get some grief for this from the LBS owners, but ...

For a big big shop that carries multiple bike lines, there's a great advantage to comparing fit on different models. With that said, more and more LBS carry only a single manuf. So, when you go in, you often have a price point/component mix you want (Say, $1000'ish and Shimano 105). When you know that, you'll be narrowed down to 1-2 bikes. One slightly below your target and one slightly more than your target ... never seems to be one that hits your price point exactly. Size wise, there's a pretty big difference between three sizes (in my case, 52, 54, and 56). You'll usually feel what's right. And, at this price point, you won't be picking crank lengths. Where a bike shop really helps out is the fitting ($50-100 value), seat position and stem length/angle. There's a good chance you should swap out the stem ($40'ish) on a new bike or used bike. You can pay for this fitting if you choose a used bike from friend. As a new rider, it's a good investment.

I'm not saying you shouldn't buy a new bike from your LBS, but I feel the "fitting" argument is slightly over done since there going to try to sell you a bike that they carry. I'm not saying they're selling you the wrong bike because through stem and seat position, they'll make it fit. In many cases that's a single line of bike (ie, Trek) with the same geometries for a given price point. Plus, new riders don't know what it should feel like. And, by the time you drive 10 miles to the specialized bike shop, you won't remember the fit of Trek to compare it to.

Might be more important for experienced riders to shop multiple shops since they know what fit / feel they're looking for. They can actually feel the difference.

With that said, I've done both:
>> new Trek Lexa SLx for my wife ... she felt more comfortable having a pro help and she wanted it "today". She did replace the stem w/ her fitting.
>> Craigslist Cannondale CAAD8 for me ... I'm frugal and feel i have as good a bike as heres for ~1/2 price. I did wait for 30 days until a good bike/value showed up on CL. I figure if I need to replace some components/parts, my price may creep higher, but I'll have a better bike due to higher end after market parts. ie, i need to replace my tires. I'll drop $100 on conti grand prix, but i'll have much better tires than my wife's bontarager. Same thing could be said for other components. I figure worse case, I have $600 to replace/upgrade.

My other comment on used. If you screw up, you should be able to resell and lose very little money. If/when I decide to go carbon fiber, I'll get my $700 out of my CAAD8. We'll "lose" money on my wife's if she decides she wants a nicer ride.

Buy New: Fit, Warrantee, Immediate, it's tuned up and ready to go, no goofing around w/ replacing parts for quite a while. Feel good/comfortable something won't go wrong.
Buy Used: Better bike for the same price.
Why not buy used: warrantee, fitting, takes time, you think you're getting better components that you actually are, ie, older ultegra 6600 is similar to today's 105-5700.

I wouldn't buy used to save 20%, but if you can save 50% and from a trusted source, it's worth considering.

Good luck,

- bww


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## AndrwSwitch (May 28, 2009)

Depending on your commute and weekend rides, they can be very different ways of using a road bike, or they can be very similar.

For me, it's a different bike. I ride my commuter five days a week, but only about 2.5 miles each way at the moment, and in general never more than 40 minutes at a time (longer commutes, or running errands.) When I get to my destination, I lock it to something convenient, go about my business, and then move on to the next thing. I'm in Seattle, where it's pretty rainy eight months out of the year. My old commuter was a mid-80s Raleigh that I installed a rack and fenders on, and used with toe clips.

By contrast if I'm riding for fun or training, I have a '99 LeMond I bought new. Every component on it is fancier than what's on the Raleigh, and while it's got fenders at the moment, they're clip-ons and will come off again in May or so. It has no rack, I almost never lock it outside, and it has clipless pedals. It's not the most practical bike for doing practical stuff, but it's excellent for the way I do use it.

Some of my teammates have commutes they do that run twenty miles and over, and much safer places than me to keep their stuff. They ride to work on the same bikes they train and sometimes race on, and then dress up as adults when they get there.

Some people I rode with for a while have weekend rides in which they ride for a few miles, stop and drink or eat pastries or something, repeat. Their bikes look like my commuter. And then there's Randonneur cyclists, who are nuts...

So when you decide what you're going to ride for a commute, you need to ask yourself some things - how far am I riding? Do I care if I have to wear funny shoes to do it? Do I have a safe place to keep my bike? How much stuff am I taking with me? Will I be riding in the rain, or on wet roads?

And when you decide what you're going to ride for weekend rides, you need to ask yourself some things - how far am I riding? Will I be content wearing something other than cycling shoes? Will I be stopping and starting and leaving my bike? Will I accumulate stuff during my rides? Will I be riding in the rain, or on wet roads? Will I be pushing my athletic abilities and riding with groups of cyclists interested in doing the same?

I don't want to overcomplicate this for you - a lot of people find it to be a pretty simple decision, one way or the other. And the basic road bike is pretty versatile, although you're likely to be somewhat frustrated if you buy something meant as a racing bike and try to equip it in a laden touring style or vice versa.

In answer to your other question - yes, road bikes wear out. Pretty much everything on a road bike will wear out sooner or later, one way or another. Parts that wear quickly and that you should keep an eye on are the gears and chain, tires, and brake pads. Prices on those things vary, from a little under $10 for a single set of brake pads to over $50 for nicer tires and chain rings, with the sky as the limit on those. High-mileage bikes ridden through wet weather sometimes also suffer from rim wear in as little as a year. That's a more expensive problem, any way you approach it.

If you can, borrow your friend's bike and ride it a couple times. Get it as close to a good fit for you as you and he can. Then test ride some bikes at a shop. If nothing seems enough better to justify spending more, buy the bike from your friend. A lot of people on this forum seem not to have friends, or at least no cycling friends, which is too bad because I think buying a first bike is actually pretty difficult to get right without some prior saddle time.


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## pnmgroup (Dec 10, 2011)

The model is Litespeed M1, sram, full carbon. Thats all i know about the bike. Would you buy this or new Bianchi road bike in around ~$1000 range?


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## AndrwSwitch (May 28, 2009)

Dunno. If the Litespeed fit me well and was in good mechanical shape, I'd probably go for it. SRAM mskes components ranging from complete garbage to stuff above the level of what's on some pro bikes. (Same with Shimano.) Bianchi makes everything from recreational to "halo" bikes. Usually $1000 to $2000 is a big jump with retail bikes.


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## PJ352 (Dec 5, 2007)

pnmgroup said:


> *The model is* Litespeed M1, sram, *full carbon*. Thats all i know about the bike. Would you buy this or new Bianchi road bike in around ~$1000 range?


Because CF can have defects unseen by the naked eye and warranties aren't transferable, I wouldn't consider a used CF frameset. 

FWIW, I did a search on that make/ model (new) and came across listings in the $1,470 range, so something else to consider. 

To answer your question, I'd buy new in this price range. IMO/E fit matters more than brand, but the bike also has to suite a riders intended uses. A reputable LBS can assist with both.


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## SolitaryRider (Oct 20, 2011)

Check out Bikesdirect.com- or read some of the threads about their bikes in the appropriate section of this forum. You get a lot of bang for the buck with their bikes- They are essentially bikes that have frames made in the same factories as name-brand bikes, with good components- sold direct off the internet, so you cut out the LBS and it's mark-up.

In my opinion, you get a heck of a lot of bike for your money there. 

Use their sizing guideleines- and also use a few of the various websites that tell you how to measure yourself for a good fit (Which is what I did when I bought my BD bike) and you can basically get a brand new bike for the price of a used one. 

(NOTE: I am in no way connected with Bikesdirect- I am just a happy customer)


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## AndrwSwitch (May 28, 2009)

The "measure yourself" sizing guidelines are one of my pet peeves. It's not just about dimensions. It's also about the way you ride the bike and how the muscles in your body are balanced. Here's an article about it from one of my favorite sources, the late Sheldon Brown.

Revisionist Theory of Bicycle Sizing

The part I think is particularly important in refuting the idea that measurements and charts are enough is in his section on saddle fore/aft positioning. It's easy to see that the fore-aft position of the saddle effects the handlebar positions that will work for a given rider. Since the range of stem lengths that yield good bike handling is relatively narrow, this means that the reach of the frame had better be pretty close to begin with.

IME, frames that are the wrong size for me feel weird, and by the end of a ride they hurt me. I don't think a person needs to be an experienced cyclist to dislike being in pain. Obviously a right-sized bike fit wrong can hurt me too. OP, can you borrow your friend's bike for a while? Or does he need to make a sale? Maybe a professional tuneup if you don't decide to buy it would be a good way to say "thanks."


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## SolitaryRider (Oct 20, 2011)

You definitely know more about this than I, Andrw- but I'm wondering: Since all bikes basically come in a somewhat limited number of frame sizes, wouldn't it work out as long as you got the right frame size, and then just adjusted and/or changed a few variables (like seat position and stem length)? I mean, with any bike, even purchased at an LBS, isn't that all they can do? Get in the ballpark as for frame size, and then customize from there? 

I know I got lucky- as my bike seems to fit like a glove (Whether it does technically or not, I haven't a clue...but as far as comfort; and feeling like it's a part of me/being virtually unnoticeable ....it just woks)

Of course, the more you're paying for a bike, the more critical this becomes..... But when I bought my BD bike, I went into with the idea that if it didn't fit, i could always sell it and get a different size (These things are like Chinese scooters/ATVs...you can sell them if very lightly used for pretty much what they go for new. No LBS mark-up...so no big depreciation)- But luckily I didn't have to do that. In my estimation, it's worth the posible trouble, for the money you save.


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## AndrwSwitch (May 28, 2009)

SolitaryRider said:


> You definitely know more about this than I, Andrw- but I'm wondering: Since all bikes basically come in a somewhat limited number of frame sizes, wouldn't it work out as long as you got the right frame size, and then just adjusted and/or changed a few variables (like seat position and stem length)? I mean, with any bike, even purchased at an LBS, isn't that all they can do? Get in the ballpark as for frame size, and then customize from there?


Not necessarily.

The range of stem sizes that handle well is relatively narrow. The range of heights above the top of the headset at which the handlebar can be positioned safely is a lot broader, but still limited.

EDIT: Oops - yeah, if you get the right frame size, in a bike with a full size run, you can usually get it to fit pretty well. Not always, sometimes the head tube length or seat tube angle still messes things up. There's also no guaranty that the right size exists in that size run, and getting the right frame size in the first place is surprisingly hard.

If a frame doesn't have the right reach, it's impossible to put the handlebars the right place. Sometimes completely impossible, sometimes just impossible without ruining the handling.

Here's an article on a different way to quantify bike sizes...

Stack & Reach Primer: Chapter One - Slowtwitch.com

I have to confess to a little intellectual laziness here - while I think reach is a superior metric to effective top tube length, and nominal size is near-useless (I ride a nominal 48cm in the Torker Interurban, a 52cm in a lot of bikes, and a 54 according to a lot of charts) I haven't figured out the reaches on any of my bikes. I'll do that if/when I want to buy a bike online. I do know my preferred top tube length, however - right around 535mm. I'm a little short for an American, at 5'8". In many size runs, 535mm is the shortest top tube. Sometimes there's one shorter, but the reach is the same - the seat tube is just steeper. Which is a crappy way to address shorter riders' needs. Anyway, if I have a bike with my preferred reach, I use a 90mm stem and am happy. Stick me on the next size up and even if I only need to shorten the total reach by 10mm, I have a problem - 80mm stems handle funny. Some other posters think it's actually a matter of my weight distribution between wheels. That seems very plausible to me too. Regardless, what it shows is that my ballpark, in a lot of brands, is only one size.

So lets say some money falls in my lap and I decide to get a new road bike. For whatever reason, I get fixed on the Felt F6. The 51cm has a little shorter top tube than "my" number. Fine, I'll get a longer stem, and be happy. The 48 has an even shorter top tube and steeper seat tube. My saddles are often pretty far back on the rails on my bikes (probably why I also like a smaller road bike than charts predict for me) so that makes me nervous - will I be able to put the saddle in "my" position? I don't know... The 54cm has a 545mm top tube, and we're back to maybe I won't like the bike's handling with the stem that makes it fit me right.


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## SolitaryRider (Oct 20, 2011)

I guess it gets even more complicated with all the radically different frame geometries that are around these days, too! 

I'll have to read the article you linked to- My BD bike came with a very long stem- I'm wondering if I were to shorten it, how short I could go without affecting the handling. (Does it really make that big a difference, since we rarely turn the bars- but most of our turning is done by leaning?)

I thought that if there was one aspect of my bike that might be a little mis-sized, it was the reach- as it seemed a little long to me- but as i ride the bike more, I've gotten used to it, and am beginning to think it's not an issue- but I'll explore my options just in case.

I still can't believe how long my stem is! I'm wondering if that was intended due to the geometry of the frame...or if they just got a deal on a bunch of long stems that someone had laying around!  My bike is a 54cm, and other than adjusting the seat height, I haven't really had to do a thing to it. (But being a noob and rather ignorant in this department, I could be WAY off!- but it sure feels good!)


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## AndrwSwitch (May 28, 2009)

They probably got a deal on a crate of some particular stem.

How long is yours? IME, 80mm is a little funny, 90mm is fine. I don't know what the upper limit is - I don't have a problem finding large enough frames. 

And yeah, it really makes a difference. Whether it's to do with weight distribution or leverage or something else, I don't know. Anyway, it's worth some experimentation if you're trying to teach yourself to fit your bike. (And, this is why people recommend getting bikes at retail - if you try to do this by trial and error, and buy retail stems, it gets expensive fast. If you use $10 or $15 stems, it's not so bad - it shouldn't take many to get it dialed.)


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## SolitaryRider (Oct 20, 2011)

My stem is 120mm!- I'll bet that's the biggest they come! Handles fine though- and seems comfortable now. I had worried at first, because I was comfortable with my hands on the top of the bars, it seemed like a stretch when riding on the hoods- but I noticed today, i did my whole ride on the hoods without even giving a thought to it- and I was just as comfortable as could be. But down the road, if I do end up having a problem, that will likely be it. Shouldn't be too hard to guestimate how much shorter I'd need to go. (Thank goodness i didn't need to move the seat back from stock position!)

As a noob though- my opinion as to the adequacy of the fit may change in time.... but so far, so good! When you get to the end of your ride and still want to continue on, even though you're horribly out of shpae, but just feel so comfortable, and like the bike isn't even there....I'd say it's pretty close(if not perfect)


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## PJ352 (Dec 5, 2007)

AndrwSwitch said:


> Not necessarily.
> 
> The range of stem sizes that handle well is relatively narrow. The range of heights above the top of the headset at which the handlebar can be positioned safely is a lot broader, but still limited.
> 
> ...


Interesting convo on fit and some good points made here, I think.

FWIW, I agree that reach is a superior metric to ETT. Trouble is, you need the bike and (at least the initial setup) to dial in the ideal. If that's not an option, and (as an example) someone is attempting to compare frame geo online, the next best method is to compare reach. 

To do this, not only the ETT needs to be known, but also the STA and HTA, because for every degree of change to STA, reach changes by about 1cm (a little less for smaller sizes) and about 3mm's for HTA. This is an important point for riders that have a current bike to use as a baseline and are trying to match reach/ drop on a new bike. If (as Andrew states) the saddle is positioned rearward on the rails, it's a good idea to consider a slacker STA on the next bike, keeping in mind the importance of how that plays into ETT numbers. This assumes the saddle is positioned correctly fore/ aft for a given rider.

Solitary Rider - If you're interested in learning more about bike fit in pretty general terms, the Sheldon Brown link is probably the best place to start. It's thorough without being 'too intense' for beginners. 

Re: your 120mm stem. My advice is to stay with it for the time being. If you're now able to do short rides in relative comfort, chances are as you build some saddle time it'll feel more natural. It's all a part of the acclimation process.


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## PJ352 (Dec 5, 2007)

SolitaryRider said:


> My BD bike came with a very long stem- I'm wondering if I were to shorten it, how short I could go without affecting the handling. (Does it really make that big a difference, since we rarely turn the bars- but *most of our turning is done by leaning*?)


Very perceptive of you. This is precisely why (IMO/E) stem length alone isn't what makes a bike's steering twitchy. Rather, it's due to the fact that short stems are routinely used on bikes sized too large for a given rider (to adjust for excessive reach). The result is lower that optimal frontal weight (40-45%), which in turn causes sketchy steering. The stem holds the bars and dictates reach and drop (together with spacers). It's not a road bikes version of a steering wheel. 

FYI.. I answered your comments/ concerns about your reach and the 120mm stem in my earlier post.


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## SolitaryRider (Oct 20, 2011)

PJ352 said:


> Re: your 120mm stem. My advice is to stay with it for the time being. If you're now able to do short rides in relative comfort, chances are as you build some saddle time it'll feel more natural. It's all a part of the acclimation process.


Thanks- and I agree- if it ain't broke...don't fix it. The first time getting on the bike after not having ridden in decades, it seemed too long- but just with the little riding I've been doing to try and get in shape for some more serious riding, I've already acclimated to it- and now it feels natural and comfortable- and I love the way the bike handles, so I see no reason to change it unless it becomes a problem ewhen I start putting miles on- but which is unlikely, beause as you say, if it feels good now, it should be O-K.

And this is the most comfortable bike I have ever ridden- if anything, in the future, it may leave me wanting a more aggressive frame...but for a noob, I think I picked the perfect bike for me, and got very lucky with the sizing. (These bottom-tier BD bikes have wide gaps of 4cm between the different sizes....so one doesn't have too much choice anyway...unless they're right on the cusp between sizes). 

Sometimes ya just get lucky...and I'm glad that this was the time! My only real knowledge of good-fitting vs. bad-fitting, goes back to when I was about 11 years old. I was very comfortable on my 20" tire banana-seat single-speed Ross.....then one day a friend got a new "English racer"- a big 10 speed with drop bars, which was even quite big for him, and he was twice my size! He let me try it once, and despite the fact that it was "a good bike" I was miserable on it- it just felt so good to get back on good old Ross, with the D-shaped loop handlebars! Funny how I've always remembered that. (Probably because I came close to crashing the kid's bike! I had to lean it over about 45 degrees just to get my feet on the ground! Heck, I had already crashed his sled- and while the sled fared pretty well, he had his gloves propped up against the tree I crashed into, and they got almost chopped in half!)


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## PJ352 (Dec 5, 2007)

SolitaryRider said:


> ... got very lucky with the sizing. (These bottom-tier BD bikes have wide gaps of 4cm between the different sizes....so one doesn't have too much choice anyway...unless they're right on the cusp between sizes).
> 
> Sometimes ya just get lucky...


Yes, 4cm gaps in frame sizes is far from ideal. That's why when members on a budget mention similar bikes I offer pretty much what you've said. They'll either fit or they won't, and unless the buyer is close to one of the sizes offered, the compromises that have to be made to fit when going to 'the next' size is too great.


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## tystevens (Jul 10, 2008)

Regarding the "new vs used" argument, the last 2 bikes I've purchased have been "sorta-new" from an LBS. My Jamis road bike was a left-over from the prior year that they had kicking around the shop. As I recall, sticker was about $1100, I paid about $900. My mtb was even a better deal -- it is a Specialized factory "test bike" which the LBS used and loaned out for the year, tuned up and serviced, and sold to me for about 40% off new MSRP. Looks brand new. With both bikes, I've had full LBS support (free tunes, adjustments, frame/component warranties, discounts on other gear, etc), which is nice for someone like me w/o a lot of wrenching experience or capabilities. 

Takes a little bit of legwork to find the deals, but they are out there, especially this time of year, it seems.


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## onelink360 (Nov 27, 2011)

I just got a used and a great deal sometimes it don't hurt to shop around


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