# What if Lance had stayed retired?



## CBus660R (Sep 9, 2011)

If Lance had stayed in the retired champ mode he entered in '05 and not attempted his comeback in '09, do you think USADA, et al would have let the secrets stay secret? Was his ego and his thought that he could make a comeback too much for the powers that be? I wonder if there was a deal in '05 similar to Michael Jordan's "retirement" for his issues with gambling, the difference being that the NBA was OK with it being a 2 year suspension whereas the cycling powers wanted Lance gone for good?


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## 3rensho (Aug 26, 2003)

What about if LA had just helped out Landis, post-suspension? What if he'd just thrown him a bone and gotten his team added to the ToC roster? Or even gotten him a domestic-only ride on his team?

Seems like a lot of dominoes fell after Floyd got really p!ssed about not getting in the ToC.


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## 32and3cross (Feb 28, 2005)

I think is Lance had not been greedy (i.e. stay retired not come back and start messing with people) and not been a dick (taken care of Floyd et all) then none of this would have happened.


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## LostViking (Jul 18, 2008)

I don't believe the USADA would have willingfully let things go - due to the time passed they might have had no choice - Dopestrong's return to racing opened the door and the investigators now had a "live" one to pursue.


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## Coolhand (Jul 28, 2002)

It would have happened, but later as people ran out of money.


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## burgrat (Nov 18, 2005)

He would have ridden off into the future, still with the same old questions, but records intact. There would have been no USADA case, etc. 
Too bad his ego is so massive. It turned out to be his downfall and is the reason he's such an *******.


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## MarkS (Feb 3, 2004)

CBus660R said:


> If Lance had stayed in the retired champ mode he entered in '05 and not attempted his comeback in '09, do you think USADA, et al would have let the secrets stay secret? Was his ego and his thought that he could make a comeback too much for the powers that be? *I wonder if there was a deal in '05 similar to Michael Jordan's "retirement" for his issues with gambling, the difference being that the NBA was OK with it being a 2 year suspension whereas the cycling powers wanted Lance gone for good*?


I heard some third-hand or fourth-hand rumor while I was at the Tour de France in 2005 or 2006 that Lance had retired as a condition for ending investigations by French and/or Italian authorities. But, this was just talk among people who were just like the rest of us -- armchair speculators without any real knowledge.


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## Big-foot (Dec 14, 2002)

Coolhand said:


> It would have happened, but later as people ran out of money.


Care to elaborate on that counselor?


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## Coolhand (Jul 28, 2002)

*IMHO of course*



Big-foot said:


> Care to elaborate on that counselor?


My hypothesis: Absent current events, I think the truth was coming out from a Postal rider(s) in a book. That would be most likely when they "had nothing to lose" aka out of the sport and looking to make some money or change careers. Maybe someone like Barry who had already authored one book and had very good credibility and reputation.

Something this big was always going to come out. When you have that many people involved it always does. Take the Hinault Era- most of the big dopers have fessed up at this point, usually in relation to a book.


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## rydbyk (Feb 17, 2010)

*this would not have happened*

is that tyler hamilton in the yellow diablo outfit


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## Big-foot (Dec 14, 2002)

Or what if....


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## rockstar2083 (Aug 30, 2005)

rydbyk said:


> is that tyler hamilton in the yellow diablo outfit


Funny that incident wasn't listed among the intimidation incidents.


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## brentley (Jul 20, 2008)

3rensho said:


> What about if LA had just helped out Landis, post-suspension? What if he'd just thrown him a bone and gotten his team added to the ToC roster? Or even gotten him a domestic-only ride on his team?
> 
> Seems like a lot of dominoes fell after Floyd got really p!ssed about not getting in the ToC.


Didn't Lance also laugh at him at the Tour De Gila at one point, saying he had been drinking too much beer? Turns out being a dick can sometimes piss people off and apparently hell hath no fury like a mennonite scorned and then popped for doping.


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## trailrunner68 (Apr 23, 2011)

brentley said:


> Didn't Lance also laugh at him at the Tour De Gila at one point, saying he had been drinking too much beer? Turns out being a dick can sometimes piss people off and apparently hell hath no fury like a mennonite scorned and then popped for doping.


This! Armstrong is just flat out stupid. So is Pat McQuaid and Hein Verbruggen. Omerta is a two way street. You cannot crap on people then expect them to keep quiet. Hamilton was blackballed from the ProTour teams by the UCI. Rasmussen was blackballed, and he never even tested positive. It was only a matter of time before they screwed someone over who had the cojones to fight back. That turned out to be Landis.

Armstrong has spent millions over the last couple years on legal fees. He will lose millions in future revenue. Bruyneel just lost out on 150K a month. Half a million a year to hire Landis would have been peanuts, especially since they could have used Radio Shack's money instead of their own. 

The truth would have eventually come out. People talk after they retire. Anyone with a brain could figure out years ago that Armstrong was doping. The evidence was overwhelming. But it would have taken years more for reality to become apparent to the average Joe. By that time Armstrong would have been fifty and most of this would have taken place twenty years earlier.

Armstrong's brain is about the size of Ricco's.


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## mpre53 (Oct 25, 2011)

Chris-X said:


> The guy is a lot of things but stupid isn't one of them.. Screwing Floyd and making everyone his b!tch was his next big challenge.
> 
> LeMond had it right with the "he has no conscience" comment. Daniel Coyle touched on it at the end of his "War" book. Floyd knew it. He made a comment about Armstrong wanting to dominate and it made no sense, like people wanting to be President.
> 
> ...


I agree. He's anything but stupid. What he displays, however, is the arrogance of a classic pathological narcissist, who honestly believes that he's untouchable.

One of the kind of sad things to read was the end of Hincapie's affidavit. Poor George honestly values Armstrong's perceived friendship and believes that Lance values his.:lol:


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## Dwayne Barry (Feb 16, 2003)

3rensho said:


> Seems like a lot of dominoes fell after Floyd got really p!ssed about not getting in the ToC.


When you think about it, as poorly as Armstrong treated so many people over his career it's really amazing no one decided to get their revenge on him sooner. Probably why he figured it was alright to **** with Floyd too.


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## Doctor Falsetti (Sep 24, 2010)

Comeback or not they would have got him. Even if they did not have Floyd they would have got him.


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## mpre53 (Oct 25, 2011)

Dwayne Barry said:


> When you think about it, as poorly as Armstrong treated so many people over his career it's really amazing no one decided to get their revenge on him sooner. Probably why he figured it was alright to **** with Floyd too.


The guy that you have to fear the most is the guy with little or nothing left to lose.


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## EuroSVT (Sep 15, 2011)

I'm thinking Armstrong would have had a much better chance of pulling it off, had he stayed retired. I don't know how reliable the attched link is regarding Kayle Leogrande, but it indicates that USADA started to look into Armstrong in 2008.

http://www.nytimes.com/2012/10/18/sports/cycling/inquiry-into-kayle-leogrande-led-to-lance-armstrongs-eventual-fall.html?pagewanted=1&_r=3&ref=sports&


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## Bluenote (Oct 28, 2012)

I think if he had stayed retired, he would have gotten away with it. I say this because of timing - Floyd losing his title, the cases (or non-cases, really) against Barry Bonds and Roger Clemens, plus the bad economy and fiscal austerity.

Floyd got stripped, lost - well, just about everything, after Armstrong retired. It likely was frustrating to him to loose everything, then Armstrong, the king if dopers, comes back and everyone fawns over him. I mean, Armstrong and Landis were like a study in the haves and have nots in doping.

Had Armstrong staid retired, someone eventually would have spilled the beans. But, I think after the non-cases against Bonds and Clemens, I doubt there would have been the stomach (or budget) for the criminal investigation into Armstrong. Without that, I don't think the USADA would have gotten enough evidence - the blood tests from 2009, the number of witnesses.


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