# The horror of admitting you bought something online to your LBS.



## jmio (Aug 19, 2008)

So I went to my new/old LBS(the slash is there because I just moved to a new town, tried to make it my new LBS, their attitudes toward me quickly made it my old LBS) and was inquiring about some saddles, water bottle cages, etc., just some accessories for my new Kilo. Well the employee at the time didn't know it was a kilo I was going to fit this stuff on. So when I told him that I bought the kilo and what I was going to use it for, his attitude did a 180. He even left the conversation to go help someone else, right in mid sentence. 20 minutes later I had to track him down to ask a few more questions, all I got from him were one word answers and a bunch of "i don't knows". the final straw was when I asked him if I could try a saddle out and he replied by saying"why don't you find an internet sight and buy a saddle if you get such good deals". If felonious assault didn't exist there would be one less bike salesmen in ohio right now. 

Does anyone else have any stories like this? or do I just live in the shallowest place ever?


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## FatTireFred (Jan 31, 2005)

first, not too many shops let you try out saddles. sure there are places like rei and perf that let you bring stuff back, but few have a saddle trial program. 

but you were in there before and they already demonstrated that they are d'bags and you went back? or was that the first time in? if the latter, why should they care where you got your bike if you are new to town? hope your town has another shop


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## Hollywood (Jan 16, 2003)

jmio said:


> Does anyone else have any stories like this? or do I just live in the shallowest place ever?


2 sides to the coin. What _should_ their reaction be? Were you planning on buying all the accessories right then and there, or just shopping?

I did that years ago to a shop, walked in with a frame and a box full of parts scored from ebay. Asked them to build the bike for me. I won't do that again.


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## Campag12 (Jul 31, 2008)

When I started cycling, I bought 99% of my stuff on the internet. I used the LBS exclusively for wrench jobs that I couldn't do. The only reason I'm on good terms with them is that I purchase a pair of bartape on EVERY visit. I don't have the heart to tell them that their Deda bartape is a good $6 more than PBK (not to mention sales tax) but they've accepted me as that bartape guy. I soon ingratiated myself with the rest of the sales staff, not just the cashier clerk, because they always see me paying for something before I leave.


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## Dave Hickey (Jan 27, 2002)

I make 90% of my purchases online.. My LBS purchases are limited to tubes, cables, bottle cages, some clothing and tools.. 

It adds up to about $100-150/mo.. 

That being said, I would never ask a favor of them since I don't feel like I spend enough money with them....I'd never ask them to try a saddle because in all likeliness, I'm going to continue to make most of my purchases online and in my mind, I'm not a "good" customer.....


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## David Loving (Jun 13, 2008)

I buy next to nothing from an lbs - everything on line including frames, campy components, wheels. I am interested in the best prices, period. I bought a specialized toupe gel saddle from them last year though. Good saddle, too!


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## roadfix (Jun 20, 2006)

Yeah, I make most all my purchases on-line too. 
Banks hate me too because I pay my credit card payments in full each month, therefore not making any interest off of me.....


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## kiwisimon (Oct 30, 2002)

if i use the lbs i make sure that all purchases for the job are done in shop. OP i would think that a non customer walking into a shop asking to demo a seat would get the same reaction in lots of places. Demo a seat? for how long? Maybe if you promised to buy one from them but keep looking IMHO.
" do I just live in the shallowest place ever?" maybe cheapest.


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## Oxtox (Aug 16, 2006)

yeah, it's poor form to try something on in a store to find your size and then buy it online.

but, it's equally poor form for the LBS to antagonize someone because they shop the web. They need to emphasize customer service if they can't compete on price.

stores don't have an entitlement to my disposable income, so they need to treat me nicely or I won't spend ANY of it in their establishment.

I go thru the same crap with scuba equipment and local dive shops...really gets old. Can't count the number of times some tank monkey has told me that the store doesn't stock some common item, but can ORDER it for me...yo doof, I can order it, give me some added value or I'm off to the computer.


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## jmio (Aug 19, 2008)

yeah it was my first trip there and my old shop had a program where you could exchange if unhappy with the seat. You could upgrade or even go down a model. they are an amazing little shop, mom and pop owned who really appreciated their customers. I was planning on buying a lot of stuff at this new one.. obviously not a bike because I can't afford that crap. But I had money in pocket ready to get a saddle, cage, bottle, and some tape, and maybe some other stuff, I was trying to establish a business relationship with them. I live in Toledo, Oh. this establishment was about 30 minutes outside the city, but I'm sure there are more here in the local area. I just moved here 2 months ago so I'm on the search now for sure!!!!


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## Axis (Sep 15, 2007)

I get some steep discounts from my LBS but... I always go in every once in awhile and buy something for full price in the 60 to 100 dollar range. 

The other thing that *might* be helping is that I am "that" guy who drank too much tequila at their year end sale and threw up on the couch that proudly displays a sign thanking me for puking on the couch... they took pictures and put it in my account on the pos system so every new employee gets to ring me out and go OH you are "that" guy!


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## Campag12 (Jul 31, 2008)

To be honest, the only reason I feel bad sometimes is that I try to put myself in their place, "walk in another man's shoes" according to Atticus Finch. However, the more I try to apply ethics to my position as a customer, the more I realize that I get the short end of the draw. I think it is a customer's expectation to always get decent customer service, regardless of amount spent. And in this regard, this has never been the case at any LBS I visited, so buying on the internet and go seek LBS service has never an issue for me--they do get paid for their service after all. However, humans are no different than dogs, and understandably people are generally more congenial to the hands that feed them.



Dave Hickey said:


> I make 90% of my purchases online.. My LBS purchases are limited to tubes, cables, bottle cages, some clothing and tools..
> 
> It adds up to about $100-150/mo..
> 
> That being said, I would never ask a favor of them since I don't feel like I spend enough money with them....I'd never ask them to try a saddle because in all likeliness, I'm going to continue to make most of my purchases online and in my mind, *I'm not a "good" customer.....*


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## Campag12 (Jul 31, 2008)

Makes me laugh really hard. I have always thought the same thing. I hate banks and financial services too--poor customer service and always out to "get you" on those tiny mistakes. Makes me chuckle whenever I "outplay" them suckers. 



roadfix said:


> Yeah, I make most all my purchases on-line too.
> *Banks hate me too because I pay my credit card payments in full each month, therefore not making any interest off of me.....:*D


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## wankski (Jul 24, 2005)

IMHO it goes either way - dont EXPECT advice if they know full well u will buy from the web - that is fair enough, since if you buy from teh interwebs, get advice from the interwebs....

OTOH, no need to be a prick about it... the shops that are nice about it in spite of are more likely to get by bidness. That's what impresses me about an LBS (plus good stock and competent wrenches)

also, don't forget, a fair few LBSs sponsor riders - shops are often the port of first call in making a cycling career.... the interwebs won't do that.


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## Dave Hickey (Jan 27, 2002)

Campag12 said:


> To be honest, the only reason I feel bad sometimes is that I try to put myself in their place, "walk in another man's shoes" according to Atticus Finch. However, the more I try to apply ethics to my position as a customer, the more I realize that I get the short end of the draw. I think it is a customer's expectation to always get decent customer service, regardless of amount spent. And in this regard, this has never been the case at any LBS I visited, so buying on the internet and go seek LBS service has never an issue for me--they do get paid for their service after all. However, humans are no different than dogs, and understandably people are generally more congenial to the hands that feed them.


Bad customer service is something I won't tolerate...crappy service and I go elsewhere..My point is I wouldn't ask for favors like borrowing a saddle


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## tricycletalent (Apr 2, 2005)

Hollywood said:


> 2 sides to the coin. What _should_ their reaction be? Were you planning on buying all the accessories right then and there, or just shopping?
> 
> I did that years ago to a shop, walked in with a frame and a box full of parts scored from ebay. Asked them to build the bike for me. I won't do that again.


It depends on what they want to acheive. The LBS reaction didn't acheive anything but venting. When you let your frustration of online competition lead to attitudes such as the customer being morally obliged to buy everything from the LBS, or he can **** himself, then these shops deserve to die out. 

As for the OP, full sympathy, I understand that you aren't one of those who thrive on conflicts and feel good inside when people are yelling at you unrightfully (to exaggerate a bit.) If you need to, get a book on growing a backbone. Treat your LBS manager friendly, but firmly.


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## tricycletalent (Apr 2, 2005)

This is all just an issue of YOUR OWN comfort zone. Go in, try on their gear, buy nothing, leave, buy online, buy their services, but nothing more.


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## CleavesF (Dec 31, 2007)

The Nashbar logos dont' help.


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## DIRT BOY (Aug 22, 2002)

First off, that employee at the LBS is an a-hole and should be fired.
And soem LBS onwers wonder why they are slow or failing.

First off you did nothing wrong. I buy 99.9% on line or use a line/parts that I sell carry. It's the cheapest and best way.

I have NEVER had a LBS give me any attitude about any part that I bought online and asked them to install. I use to use 3-5 LBS to share my business. Now it's one.

I have had them ount tubulars wich I sold (wheels and tires), adjust disk brakes, HS, etc. NEVER once I was given an attitude about it. Most parts I use/buy they shops don't carry. I even get freebies at time form the owner who knows me for years. I assume he knows I am ithe business as well. He always tells his guys to treat me right.

Now I do buy from them occasionally. I bought my kids helmets there, the wife's Specilaized bike as she wanted to get fitted and set-up by him as she never rode a real road bike.

I use their fitting services as well. I get some clothes there when it's a new brand or sizing. Many times they don't have a size I need. 

Now I send them a TON of business. I teach Spinning and send them clients all the time for shoes, HRM and when they want to buy a bike.

What you should have asked is do they have a saddle demo program. Many shops do. I would have bought some small stuff if that was my first time there, then ask about trying a saddle.

LBS need to wake up! How many times you go to buy something and they don't have your size, but will order it? I can do that online for cheaper and faster!

MY shops carry VERY little Campagnolo stuff. So that rules out them. Shimano stuff is so over-priced that I would never buy it there unless I needed something now.

I hear this support your LBS stuff all the time. Sure. Except for one shop here, ask about fixed gear stuff or BROOKS saddles and watch their look.
They just don't carry it.

The first bike I ever bought parts to put together myself was built by my LBS. I brought them a frame and boxes of aprts. $80 later we were both ahppy. Hell I brought my own tape in to have them rerwrap my bars. $12 and an hr later we are both happy.

THAT"S why my main LBS has been in business for a LONG time and is one of the best!!

Find a new shop and tell the owner that you will due to that crappy employee. Then see how he treats you. Be nice and friendly.


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## jmio (Aug 19, 2008)

Yeah I told him about my old shops demo program, asked if they did that sort of stuff. that's when he gave that b.s. remark. He should be fired!


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## jmio (Aug 19, 2008)

wouldn't you think they would try to be nice to their customers to win over their competitions? works for car salesmen! lol ummmm maybe not!


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## Hollywood (Jan 16, 2003)

*makin' friends on the webnet*



tricycletalent said:


> This is all just an issue of YOUR OWN comfort zone. Go in, try on their gear, buy nothing, leave, buy online, buy their services, but nothing more.


wow. Between you "downloading" music when you can "afford to buy it" and "buy nothing" at your LBS, you're the kind of person thats going to guarantee small business continue to fail. Thanks helper!!! :thumbsup: 

If I have a good relationship with a shop, I can't rightfully walk out empty-handed. Buy a ****ing Clif bar. Something. Beer/coffee/sweets are also appreciated by mechanics and have gained me lots of comp'd wrench time as a result.

if you need to, get a book on Karma.


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## yakky (May 7, 2008)

I try stuff on all the time at my local LBS and then go buy online. I buy online and take stuff back to the LBS if it doesn't fit. I get free parts from my LBS, like screws and misc odds and ends. I ask them for advice. Most I ever really buy is gels or stuff I need that day. Somehow they manage to stay in business. Oh wait, my LBS is Performance. Its a wonder how they stay in business...


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## roadfix (Jun 20, 2006)

I think I walk into my LBS about once or twice a year at most on average. I have to put my head down in shame every time as they greet me and remember me by my first name. Then they ask me if I'm still riding? I'll walk out of there with a $2 headset spacer which I came in for and since I feel so bad I'll purchase a couple of tubes although I don't really need them as I buy them in bulk on-line.
Do any of you feel this way sometimes?


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## Bocephus Jones II (Oct 7, 2004)

Hollywood said:


> wow. Between you "downloading" music when you can "afford to buy it" and "buy nothing" at your LBS, you're the kind of person thats going to guarantee small business continue to fail. Thanks helper!!! :thumbsup:
> 
> If I have a good relationship with a shop, I can't rightfully walk out empty-handed. Buy a ****ing Clif bar. Something. Beer/coffee/sweets are also appreciated by mechanics and have gained me lots of comp'd wrench time as a result.
> 
> if you need to, get a book on Karma.


LOL! Probably the same guy who complains that he got charged $100 for a headset install.


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## OneGear (Aug 19, 2005)

First off, he's the total douchebag. Unless you gave him a brief history and yourself, I would think he was hoping for a Kilo sale. He probably just assumed you lived in the area and didn't buy it from them. The fact that you just moved there makes no difference to him because he didn't even consider it. 

Like other people here, I buy 90% of my stuff from online sources. PBK is just unbeatable. I have a good relationship with the LBS owner and he lets me and my friends use his tools when we need to. Sorta like the bartape guy who posted above. I always make a point to buy SOMETHING when I go. Whether it is Gels, bartape, small parts etc. I bought my Fuji Track off him, not cause it was cheap, but because you do what you can to support someone who gives you a good service. His shop is mostly mtb and rarely carries anything of interest to me, but still, I appreciate his customer service, and he can order things for me if I need them. Thats probably the only reason I ever step in that store. I'm worried about stores like his, especially when I recently brought my bike in for work and decided to change my chain... he sold me a Deore 9speed chain for 40$, with discount, you can get a Duraace chain off PBK for that kinda money. But still, you don't complain too much cause you know the benefits you get will pay off in the long run.


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## benwitt11 (May 31, 2006)

> I did that years ago to a shop, walked in with a frame and a box full of parts scored from ebay. Asked them to build the bike for me. I won't do that again.


I'd just take your money and do it smiling! 

I have worked in small LBS's for a decade now. I know that many shops give local guys a bad rap, and frankly many of them deserve it. It is nonsense to think that someone would have to pay 40% more in a shop for the same product than online. I do not extend that to include used parts. You're on your own there. That said, especially if a shop is small, it's asinine to assume that they should stock everything you want in the shop at internet prices. I've always kept the policy that I'll try and match online prices plus shippin from reputable online stores. This seems to work out quite well. Usually I don't have the item in stock, but can get it in less time then the customer alone. Usually I am able to beat the online price and still make an acceptable margin. It does make me mad when people expect to talk to me for hours and get my recommendations on things, and then buy them online without giving me the chance to compete for their business. Usually it ends up costing them more, and wasting my time. That sucks. 

As for Hollywood's example, that is service work. I would not complain about it at all. It takes me no time to try and sell anything, and the margin on labor is always going to be better than selling parts. They should have been happy to have the work and not given you guff. That said, if you talked to them forever about the parts, demanded attention and advice, and then bought it all on Ebay... Yup you'd be on my s*** list.


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## Dr. Placebo (May 8, 2007)

At my old LBS (I moved so I don't have one now) the wrench/rep that helped me out and eventually sold me my bike basically said about certain parts "you can find that online." I made it known that I did my research online so he figured as much. I always bought stuff when I came in though. When something broke (READ: whenever I broke something) and I had to take it in I'd leave with another tool, tubes, pump, cage, whatever. If i didn't buy crap online I wouldn't have been able to afford getting the bike from them to begin with.


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## Touch0Gray (May 29, 2003)

One of the LBS around here has made more money on me than if they had actually sold me the bikes (which I got at a different LBS) just on bits and pieces and upgrades....

edit: fact is I but mostly at local shops, by the time I pay shipping and handling it is usually a wash as to price. I buy online when they can't give me what I want.....


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## Normbilt (Jan 26, 2005)

I've worked in a Bike Shop for almost 2 Decades 19 years to be exact.

The guy at that LBS was an idiot. If any of my fellow employs did that I tell them a Story.
Hell 19 years there was no internet sales. Disc brakes,Suspension, was a theory. We all rode at the local trails on rigid bikes with cantilevers unless you were riding a GT they were still running U brakes on the rear. **** lasted alot longer back then and **** was cheaper. 

My Story?
About 1996 or 7 this guy came in with a gt avalache with a bunch of aftermarket on parts.
His XTR shifter broke. We were a Highend shop that SPONSERED a Road/MTB and a Kick ass BMX team. I had that part in stock.I sold it and installed it on his bike. While he waited. The owner at that time Freaked out cause he thought the customer was a MAIL Order Basturd. I told the owner maybe so, but I had the new shifterset in stock and made money on labor. The Custmer was very happy that A-He could ride that weekend and B-That I knew what he wanted and how to talk to him. He turned out to be one of my best customers. He bought a lot of aftermarket parts and 2 very Highend Bikes. 
WHY CUSTOMER SERVICE.

I will let people try saddles. If they buy a saddle I tell them ride it for a week, within a week you don't like it bring it back and we'll find one that works. the three companys that I carry their saddles have a Guaranty. I also ride myself different stuff. If I like it or don't if you want it I'll sell it. It's your money. Most every bike I Own has a different set up. I commute to work everyday and usually ride three different bikes aweek. Last week I rode
six different bikes. I don't buy stuff cause Bob from Denver thinks it the best thing he ever riden. (NO offence BOB) I'm not Bob I don't live in denver and Bob's probly younger than I am

So F-that idiot at the LBS. Were not all Him. Buy were ever you want. 
When all the Banks are belly up, All credit card limits will be lowered. 
*And we are all out of jobs, then we can ride every F-in Day.*


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## roadfix (Jun 20, 2006)

Another reason I order on-line is convenience. I work 60+ hours a week and I can have most items, and I'm not talking just bike parts, but practically everything delivered right to my business address.

And since I do 100% of mechanical work I really have no reason to visit my LBS......except for those occasional $2 headset spacer I might need right away which I may not have in my parts bin.


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## DannyBoy (Feb 19, 2004)

*He's what we from the UK call a.....*

****.

The new fangled interweb is there, we all buy from it, but a smart LBS knows you'll always need 'em and should treat you right no matter what.

I buy all my frames/groupo's etc online or from custom builders but am happy to pay for wrenching and all other stuff from shops. My LBS does fairly well helping me service 7 odd bikes and in selling me shoes, helmets, tires, gels etc. I also point colleagues new to the sport to 'em and as a result they've had 5 bike sales in 18 mnths.

In fact the LBS has been so good to me from the off I make a point of buying shoes etc from them instead of online. I never would have done that if they'd got off on the wrong foot with me like yours did with you!

Tell the **** to **** off. Err, or maybe just don't go back!:thumbsup:


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## Alx (Mar 22, 2007)

Same thing happened to me today. I have an LBS that is a TREK/Specialized dealer and they don't take too kindly to someone going to their shop on a bike other than what they carry. Its pretty evident cause I can wonder around the store looking for something and not a single employee will come to help me out. 

Today I went in looking for gloves, bar tape, tubes and a new rear light. I asked for help with a specific kind of bar tape I wanted and all I got was "If its not there we don't sell it" or "Why don't you just get this instead". Mind you the people getting help are people riding those 2 brands I mentioned and the rest of us who ride an actually good fixed frame (Sorry langster owners) get the shaft!

I walked in ready to spend a fair amount of money and walked out not buying a single thing! My favorite shop is a long drive from my house but I will gladly make the trip simply cause although their prices are almost the same, they don't ignore me whenever I walk into the shop and they treat me like a customer not an annoyance.


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## slowrider (Mar 12, 2004)

I understand that it's a business, but the prices at my LBS are crazy. I brought the last model of Trek 1000 that did not come with a carbon fork. I ask my LBS how much for the cheapest carbon fork, they said it would cost me 250 dollars total. I order one from nashbar for 50 dollars, and took it to a bike shop that sell used bikes, and had it installed for 50 dollars. 

I have 4 bike shops within 20 miles from my house. One started a policy that if you brought parts in to be installed, they charge 25 dollars and hour for service. I think that is fair.


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## jmio (Aug 19, 2008)

funny, this place specializes in Trek/Giant, hmmm maybe it's a trek snobbish conspiracy? either way I despise trek bikes. maybe i'm a little biased cause my mom and pop LBS back home hates them and never carried em.


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## Alx (Mar 22, 2007)

slowrider said:


> I understand that it's a business, but the prices at my LBS are crazy. I brought the last model of Trek 1000 that did not come with a carbon fork. I ask my LBS how much for the cheapest carbon fork, they said it would cost me 250 dollars total. I order one from nashbar for 50 dollars, and took it to a bike shop that sell used bikes, and had it installed for 50 dollars.


That is exactly what happened to me at that same bike shop i mentioned previously with the exact same bike you're talking about. The tech was like "We can order you a kinesis CF fork for $175" Yeah I can order the same cheap fork for half that! Then he proceeded to tell me that upgrading that bike wasn't worth it and that I should invest in buying an upgrade from them . . . lowest priced trek bike they had was $850. Sorry I paid $300 for the bike for a reason.

Someone needs to just tell these shops to take their heads out of their @sses!


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## Hollywood (Jan 16, 2003)

Alx said:


> Someone needs to just tell these shops to take their heads out of their @sses!


Right?? Then the shops can in turn tell their landlords, the workers comp insurance companies and the employees waiting to get paid to take their heads out of _their_ @sses!

since when was trying to earn a profit the good ol fashioned way so personally insulting?



slowrider: I think its interesting that you complained about the cost of a fork, then paid FIFTY DOLLARS to have it installed.


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## slowrider (Mar 12, 2004)

I had no problem paying 50 dollars to have the fork installed. In fact, I thought that was a good deal. I save $150 dollars. I added a carbon fork to a brand new bike at that time. The bike shop charged me for 2 hours service. That's fair.

I like that policy of them charging 25 dollars and hour, to install parts you bring in to their bike shop. Why not make money installing the parts without that "Why are you bringing those parts in my shop" attitude.


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## VaughnA (Jun 3, 2003)

We have two good LBS where I live. I buy from both of them. Both of them understand that I'll shop online for a good deal, they both also understand that I'll usually check with them first and see how they can do compared to online. Most of the time they can get close enough that I'll buy from them to keep the money in town. If not, I'll get it online. They are smart enough to know that the little things add up, and that no little things mean no business.


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## yakky (May 7, 2008)

The sad thing is, the guys that get into the business for the love of it, the ones that end up helping people for free, or next to it, always end up out of business. The bigger shops with the attitudes always manage. Almost everyone that posts on this forum is probably a burden on EITHER type. We know our stuff, we know the prices, and want deals. The little guy is too honest to empty a newbie's wallet, but the big shop, with the sales guy on commision, man they'll swindle their own mother for a few more dollars.


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## tomk96 (Sep 24, 2007)

my LBS rules. i never pay full price, if they know they have a hard timing getting something and it's cheaper for me to buy online, they tell me. they know if they save me money now, i just spend it on something else later.

just yesterday, my wife brought in her cross bike. she bent her hanger in a crash. it's a new bike that we got from a different shop that we race for (we live in IL, race for a shop in WI). they straightened it no charge. i've been in there for parts they have and if they are busy, they'll let me just take it a pay later. they've let me use tools when i bought a new BB and didn't have that tool too.


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## jmio (Aug 19, 2008)

oh my god, "wal-mart effect" awesome slogan, that is of course unless the person reading it is the fat, poor, ugly and stupid!

I'll have to remember that for when I go there tonight!


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## jmio (Aug 19, 2008)

but seriously I'm going to buy online all the stuff I was gonna get there, put it on myself, ride it up there and ask THAT guy to, please top me off with some fresh air in my NEW tires!!!!!


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## Alx (Mar 22, 2007)

Hollywood said:


> Right?? Then the shops can in turn tell their landlords, the workers comp insurance companies and the employees waiting to get paid to take their heads out of _their_ @sses!
> 
> since when was trying to earn a profit the good ol fashioned way so personally insulting?


It's not about them making money, its about treating someone who didn't buy their store brand bike like they don't deserve any attention or help and should just be ignored. I can't even understand how you got that from what I wrote, the guy tried to tell me that my bike wasn't worth upgrading and that's insulting cause he questioned my own judgement. I know what I want so help me get it and make a sale, don't tell me what is better cause If I wanted a new bike I would have gone there with that purpose in mind

You're free to think however you want but I for one will not support a shop that lacks the common sense to know that every sale, even a small nickel and dime one, is important to making a profit the "Good ol fashioned way." I guess you buy a whole bike every time you go to your LBS looking for a small part.


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## PegLeg (Jun 28, 2008)

I buy most of my stuff on-line. If I need something in a hurry it is off the LBS.

This year has been kind of an exception. I have been to the LBS more times and bought more stuff there than I imaged.

I went to the LBS to look at new helmets in the spring. I tried some on and decided on a helmet and the size. I think the woman detected that I was not really not going to buy it so she offered a pretty good discount off of the market price without me asking. I decided to buy it.

I wanted to get my grand daughter a bike for her birthday. Rather than order on-line I wanted her to have some fun. I went to the LBS and bought the bike ahead of time and added all the bells and whistles. Horn, water bottle, etc. I then took her to the LBS and she was so surprised when the bike was there on the floor with a happy birthday sign and her name on it. It was worth the $200 odd dollars I spent just to see her face when she saw the bike.

I buy a lot of stuff on-line but I try to keep it low profile if I am in the LBS. I am not trying to hide anything but I figure why rub it in their face.


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## Hoffman (Jul 29, 2008)

Didn't read whole thread.

Just want to say that at my shop we'll take back a saddle within a month w/ receipt/packaging. It just has to look new still.

Otherwise, how do you know? Looks? No way. You need to get in a decent ride to know if it fits yer arse. We just tell ppl keep it out of the rain and keep it clean.

Hoffman


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## axcxnj (Sep 8, 2008)

its funny..i was at the lbs last night building up my new bike with the guys and we were all discussing this. 

they see me as a good customer, I dont buy EVERYTHING from them, but i do buy MOST stuff from them. when it came time for me to look for a SS CX bike, i talked to them about it, the cheapest i could have gotten into the saddle for was about 800, a bit pricy for my budget...i ended up going with a motobecane, and theyre cool with that, i did however buy my mountainbike there. 

but a few weeks ago i walked into the shop with a frame and fork bought online, and told them i wanted them to build it up for me, so other than the frame and fork, everything came from the lbs, and most of the parts were actually used from the parts bin stuff that i was able to get for cheaper.

I am usually in there at least once a week buying a tube or water bottle or something, and i go on the group rides with them. 

also, if you bring them beer, youre automatically in..its a fact.

on the contrary they have another "customer" who is often in the shop and uses alot of their time asking questions, just to go and buy the part online..they know and dont appreciate it...and guess what, when its busy and someone needs their bike tuned, guess who is not gettting the priority.

its about building a relationship with the people who work there. go in when its not busy to buy something and talk for a bit. when they get to know you it will go alot smoother.


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## jmio (Aug 19, 2008)

No, it was slow, I was trying to get to know them. I was trying to establish a business relationship with them. It was the store who stepped off on the bad foot. I had a whole basket full of crap, ready to buy. but that a$$ hole ruined that one for them. I found another shop, closer to my house and a heck of a lot nicer. took my Mercier kilo that I just bought offline there and they pretty much tuned it up for free. all I asked was for them to show me how to tighten the lockring/cog and next thing you know, the dude had a spoke wrench out, grease, the whole nine yards. so I blew about a hundred dollars on some shorts, jersey wedge bag and some clif bars. it all evens out in the end.


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## pretender (Sep 18, 2007)

It all comes down to this: if you want your LBS to still be around a year from now, then patronize them.

(And just because a bike shop is local, doesn't mean it's worth patronizing.) 

My LBS sponsors group rides six days a week, puts on bike races, has friendly, knowledgeable staff (they have at least four guys whom I consider go-to guys in terms of bike repair/wrenching, including fixed gear and SS), and is a hub of cycling activity. I would be super-bummed if they weren't around a year from now, so if it means paying 10% more (just for example) than I could get for googling around, I have absolutely no issue with spending my money locally. It's not about charity, it's about enlightened self-interest.

Penny wise, pound foolish.


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## David Loving (Jun 13, 2008)

It's no big deal for me. I buy next to nothing from them. I buy virtually all my gear on line, and I get along great with everybody at Excel Sports and Harris Cyclery! But I usually always have a little building or modifying project going and so I drop in when I need something - a park tool, tape, etc. I spent $40-50 last week at the store. If they have it and I need it I'll buy it there. They don't care, I don't ever bring it up, they're real friendly. I like them too - they just aren't competitive on some prices and inventory. I do not ask to test drive saddles - but I did buy one from them on recommendation and it's a great one. I never ask for favors. I think people in business always ought to get paid.


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## jmio (Aug 19, 2008)

my final opinion, bike shops in north west Ohio = fail. my family keeps bugging me about a christmas list, performance bike, nashbar, and total cycling is what it consists of. Oh I even put some wool socks from dicks sporting goods on there JUST so my family can save their 10% of hard earned money. So no I don't want the local bike shops to be around in a year.


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## lancezneighbor (May 4, 2002)

roadfix said:


> Yeah, I make most all my purchases on-line too.
> Banks hate me too because I pay my credit card payments in full each month, therefore not making any interest off of me.....


Banks call you a "deadbeat" in their jargon.


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## roadfix (Jun 20, 2006)

lancezneighbor said:


> Banks call you a "deadbeat" in their jargon.


This is correct.


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## waldo425 (Sep 22, 2008)

My LBS(s) are all very nice. They don't mind if I'm just shopping around since they all know what its like to be poor and they actually care more about biking then they do about another sale. I just allow them to help the actual paying customers when they come in; but they always come back --- perhaps because they're nice. Find a new shop.


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## metropolis (Mar 23, 2004)

I try to patronize my LBS when possible, but I get a decent amount of stuff online. I'm discreet about it, but I think they know, however I've got a good enough relationship with them that I guess they know I'll never ditch them completely. I wouldn't do something obvious like take a fork and say I bought it from them online and ask them to install it. 

I think they know that in some areas they can't compete. I kept asking them about ordering some Sidis once, and I think they were having some trouble with their supplier, and after a few weeks they finally told me they wouldn't blame me if I ordered them from a catalog, which I did. 

I get more nervous taking my eBay/craigslist stuff to them. I got a good deal on a used (but apparently never built) frame, and even though I bought the fork/headset/bottom bracket from the shop, I got the feeling that they felt I was untoward by asking them to swap all the other parts from my old bike (even though they I paid them for labor).


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## lalahsghost (Aug 27, 2007)

I hate to grave dig, but it is nearly 6am, and I cannot sleep.

My LBS and I have a great relationship. Not only in sales, but spin class and bible study, etc. Very much a mom and pop shop.

I purchased my entire new bike, 'cept stem, seatpost and spacers/expander plug online. I could have saved another $25 or so by buying those items online too, but like I said, I have a good relationship, and I didn't feel proud already. The owner completely understood, and took it up as "you're a college student, and I know you're on a budget etc..." "... but next time, even if trying to buy online, see if I can make deals on stuff you want that can be competative, that way at least I'm making a little profit." He said it in a very understanding manner, and it was not snarky at all. Basically he was letting me know that he was willing to lower his margins, just for sales. 

As I stated, I was intending on having the bike built at the shop, seeing how I am capable, but wanted to really get things done well the first time around. Owner knew it too. He told me to come in on a slow day, and he would go over everything with me, and we would build it together. That we did. I came in a few days later... from 11 - 2:30 (we took time off and went to lunch for a while). The learning experience was phenomenal, and it was a little bit of friendship bonding too, since this is an extremely small riding community. For the two hours and some odd minutes of building (only his second time with sram road gruppo, so a learning experience for him too.) I was only charged $25... His standard hourly labor rate. I was like "what?" I was expecting fifty or so. It was a good day indeed.

This is the best kind of service I've seen from any kind of local store. He knows online prices are hard to beat, but for his good customers, he is willing to cut some deals instead of totally lose out on a sale. On average, (with standard college student discount) I may get 15-30% off of everything. I still usually end up paying 10% more than online before shipping.... but the service makes it worth it.


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## Henri65 (Nov 24, 2008)

I hope you bought him lunch.
Maybe you should take that extra $25 you thought you were going to spend and buy a tire or something from him...and a sandwich.


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## tarwheel2 (Jul 7, 2005)

I try to patronize the local bike shops as much as possible, but ...
-- They usually don't have any cycling clothes in my size. Why do they only stock clothes in a few sizes (usually too small)?
-- They usually don't have the parts I am looking for, so they would have to special order them, which takes a 1-2 weeks or more, and the part ends up costing much more than it would on-line plus sales tax.

Bottom line, I can get a much wider selection of parts/clothes on line, for much less money and receive the items much quicker than I could through a LBS. I have not bought a frame or complete bike from a LBS in years because the shops in my area only stock Trek, Giant, Specialized and a few other big name brands. None of these brands have geometries (or models) that suit my particular needs. So why should I be forced to buy an ill-fitting frame just because that's all that I can find locally?


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## Richard (Feb 17, 2006)

Even without the internet/mail order competition, there is likely to be a big shakeout in the bike biz this coming year. It's a good bet that undercapitalized (and there are a lot of small businesses in this category) shops are going under this coming year.

And as competition from "brick and mortar" stores diminishes, the online marketers will be free to charge whatever the market will bear. They can invariably operate at lower margins than we can but that doesn't mean they always will.


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## CleavesF (Dec 31, 2007)

I'd like to say I love browsing through the LBS, but man... many of them (esp. with the elitist pricks in madison) assume you know nothing. Even when you tell them specifically what is the problem you have and you tell them you "tried that already". 

But as for buying online, nobody has a problem with it. Well except for Yellow Jersey, omg, they hate Shimano but love Japanese frames... I don't get it.


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## Alx (Mar 22, 2007)

One of the reasons I don't ride my bike to the LBS anymore is cause they got rid of their usual bike rack outside so I can't lock my bike there anymore. Instead I bring it inside the store which I see everyone do cause its ok to do . . . except when they see the bike I ride is not something they carry and all of a sudden I'm the plague! They hate me so much they pretend to look for parts I know for a fact they have in stock only to tell me they don't carry them any longer. Total pricks and they lose a sale because of simplistic childish BS!


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## agm2 (Sep 18, 2008)

I'm glad that my LBS and my chain bike store, both are very cool. They also know their place in my shopping habits. The one carries the bikes I like for mtbing and the other carries my line of road bike. They both know that it comes down to my fit on the bike. They also will never scold me for buying the best deal.

I've had a great deal a satisfaction with the chain recently, I have spent a good deal of money building my first road bike there so they treat me kindly. When the frame arrived they told me it came in damaged from shipping and I would have to come down and ok it for them to install the fork, or see if I wanted to send it back. They kept me going for the ride their and for about ten minutes, every employee was in on it. When the finally brought it out, they had already done the fork installation and then some. Didn't charge for the install and gave me their managers discount on the remaining parts I needed. Gotta say I was extremely happy afterwards. 

Like I have said if you give back to the shop and treat them kindly, they will hook you up. Come to think about it, I didn't pay full price for anything on the bike.


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## jmio (Aug 19, 2008)

haaa haaa, I just googled "bike shops in toledo ohio" and sure enough that shop is there(the original shop I went to) with other very dissatisfied customers as well with similar stories as mine. When will people learn! I hope he goes under for sure.


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## M__E (Apr 21, 2006)

I went into the LBS with a frameset (which they didnt carry) and a headset, and just wanted them to face it and put the crown race on and chase the bb threads. gave me some bullsh*t about them not being covered by their insurance (if not bought there!) and thats why they wouldnt put it together!!

In the boom times the LBS wouldnt have time for you, so I took my money online instead, no attitude, no "we can order it" crap, FAR cheaper prices, no snotty kids with attitude, faster, less hassle, door to door delivery, quicker period, no cash, no travel!

Im pretty sure their attitude will soon be changing as the economy sinks and more people decide that actually no, aero wheels dont make a speed dif, 100g on a group isn't worth 40% more, and 1 cog they can live without ect, despite what they believed in the boom times.

Soon they will be lookin for buisness and enoying us in the stores (rather than the other way round...according to them) and looking to get the buisness, and just when they need us, Ill have an even clearer conscience about buying online then and they can F*ck Off.


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## jmio (Aug 19, 2008)

amen i second that thought


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## Nickel II (Jul 18, 2003)

M__E said:


> Soon they will be lookin for buisness and enoying us in the stores (rather than the other way round...according to them) and looking to get the buisness, and just when they need us, Ill have an even clearer conscience about buying online then and they can F*ck Off.


I mainly feel bad for a few local independent LBS in San Diego that give great service (Leucadia Cyclery anyone!!!). THey have to deal with the online delaers, and the big boxers like Performance.

I recently bouhgt a SS online and didn't have the greatest experience. Live and learn. In hindsight I wished I had teken my business to the LBS.


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## spastook (Nov 30, 2007)

I believe in supporting your LBS especially if they sponsor local rides and racing. Granted , internet deals can be inticing and I can't blame people from using them from time to time. Especially if you do 100% of your mechanical work yourself. But I don't blame shops for copping an attitude when you show up out of the blue with some internet parts you want installed. Many years ago an LBS I frequented threw a guy out because he'd come into their shop, try on their cycling shoes then go ahead and order them mail order (pre-internet days) once he figured out what size he needed. If my local LBS is in the ballpark pricewise I will always support them but if the internet represents a substancial savings I'll give them a portion of my business.


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## Alx (Mar 22, 2007)

what I'm starting to learn is this bad service and lack of enthusiasm to help someone who purchased a part online isn't so much because the LBS didn't make the original sale. I figure they assume that if you bought it online then you did some kind of research on it which makes you an educated buyer that they can't sell unnecessary crap to.

For instance I bought yet another bike online and needed a simple part every bike shop should have IMO, a stem shim. Well I called the little bike shop of horrors I mentioned previously to give them yet another chance, sure its a cheap part but still a sale. Well after being put on hold while the tech "Searched" for one he comes to tell me they only carry 2 at a time and they're all out. 

So I go to their shop a few days later and go to where they keep the stems in the showroom floor and find close to a dozen of these things. So I ask the same tech I talked to on the phone for a shim and he goes in the back and moves some stuff around and comes back empty handed and tells me he can order one for me. At that point I put one of the many stem shims I found in their showroom on his work bench and proceed to walk out fuming and pissed off. NEVER AGAIN!


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## FatTireFred (Jan 31, 2005)

I'll play... I needed a fw remover with a deeper cup, cuz on my san jose wheel they have a big nut that prevents a standard park tool's teeth from getting down far enough and engaging the fw (and I don't want to remove the axle to change gearing). so I call around to shops, including ones a little farther that I normally don't frequent, each time explaining what I need and that I already have a park tool and it won't work and have tried a pedros and it won't work either. at one shop, I explain all this, and shopguy sez they don't have anything like that, no problem... but a few minutes later shopguy calls me back (huh, weird, I didn't give him my number, ok) and sez they might have something that would work. so I make a special trip and drive there and shopguy shows me... a friggin' park tool. WTF??? :mad2:


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## bwhite_4 (Aug 29, 2006)

A guy I be-friended at an older LBS went on to open his own shop. He gives me a pretty good discount and promises to beat and US online price (too bad he can't match PBK).

He is a little out of the way though, but I try to go through him when I can. I've purchased my Campy Record group, helmet, saddle and tires (once) from him and I'll get all maintenance done there because he has a pretty good mechanic on staff. I'll only buy clothing there when I see a really good deal because he doesn't carry the stuff I like.

He'll even go out of his way to warranty items that weren't purchased from him so he tries to run a stand-up operation and I applaud him for the leaps and bounds he goes through to make his customers happy.


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