# Define "Junk Miles"



## jlandry (Jan 12, 2007)

Are they only WRT training? IE: When you're training, you don't want to be "just riding along".

Junk miles have to be good for something, like keeping the weight down or staying fit.


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## BeeCharmer (Apr 30, 2003)

Junk miles only exist in the 'time crunched cyclist' world. If you'd ride along with euro pros in the off season, you'd realize that most of the miles they do would be considered junk miles by folks here. They provide a base of fitness, keep your cycling enjoyable and keep winter weight off.


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## perttime (Jun 27, 2005)

Junk miles is when your riding is not following a training program defined using one of the existing doctrines.

(e.g. any riding that I do)


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## Daren (Jul 25, 2008)

If you are riding and its fun, those are probably junk miles


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## jimhodges (Aug 23, 2010)

If it wasn't fun I wouldn't be riding. So I guess all my miles are "junk" miles. I guess ignorance
is bliss.


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## Daren (Jul 25, 2008)

jimhodges said:


> .... I guess ignorance
> is bliss.


It is :thumbsup:


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## Gnarly 928 (Nov 19, 2005)

How bout this for Junk Miles?

When you go to a race that you don't want to be at, just because 'you trained, you may as well use the fittness?'

When you skip a fun group ride or an adventure or a 'throw down Saturday club challenge' so that you can 'taper' for an event, and then flat out during the race? Junk! 

trainer 'miles'? They are pretty junky in my estimation...

Any miles you do out of 'sense of duty' (unless you are a paid pro) rather than because you actually want to ride= Junk Miles..in my book.


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## Wookiebiker (Sep 5, 2005)

I lifted this off of this web site and feel it gives a pretty good definition of what "Junk Miles" are...at least in the context of training.

*What Are “Junk Miles?”*


Junk miles: _Miles added into your training plan with no purpose other than to increase your mileage count._

The time spent on junk miles is usually some moderate pace riding, typically too hard to serve as a recovery ride, but not hard enough to really spark increased fitness.

It might seem like a good idea, but you really don’t gain anything from junk miles. They do nothing but waste your energy.

*Exceptions To The “Junk”*

Before you get too worked up, don’t confuse junk miles with endurance training and long rides. If you have a purpose for a particular long ride, then the extra miles would not be considered “junk miles.”

Here are a few exceptions to the rule:


*Base training.* Base training is a vital part of the periodized training plan where you do rather long rides on a consistent basis to condition your legs to the bike.

*The endurance ride.* Even during intense training, it’s useful to do a long ride once every week or two to maintain the endurance your built during base training.

*Getting your butt ready.* As well as building endurance, sometimes you need to put in some long rides to get your butt conditioned to sitting on a saddle.

*Fun.* If you want to go out on a long joy ride, it’s perfectly acceptable to make “have fun” the purpose of your ride!

I should also point out mileage is relative. A cyclo-cross racer who competes in 60 minute races on weekends may have some junk miles in their program if they are doing six hour rides every day. On the other hand, a stage racer needs to get used to riding six hours a day for weeks on end, so they would have a purpose behind each of their six hour rides.


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## jlandry (Jan 12, 2007)

Good one wookiebiker.

So... group rides are junk miles?


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## spade2you (May 12, 2009)

Another benefit of the junk miles is to make damn sure your bike is dialed in and fitted correctly. You don't want to find out that something is wrong 50 some miles into your road race.


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## Hank Stamper (Sep 9, 2009)

*Fun. If you want to go out on a long joy ride, it’s perfectly acceptable to make “have fun” the purpose of your ride!*

oh, great. I'm so happy I have been granted permission to ride for fun.


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## Wookiebiker (Sep 5, 2005)

jlandry said:


> So... group rides are junk miles?


It all depends...

Are group rides part of your training program? If not, then maybe...depends on what you do in the group ride.

Are group rides fun for you? Then maybe not.

Do you follow a specific training plan? If not...does it matter?

I personally use group rides as part of my training plan. Most of our rides have sections in them where we are going very hard, sometimes they are much harder than races. So I use them for intervals as well as longer endurance paced rides since they are usually the longest ride of the week for me.


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## Daren (Jul 25, 2008)

jlandry,

Do you race? Are you planning too in the future? Are you following a training plan to get stronger for your local group rides? If all three answers are "no", then junk miles really don't exist for you. If that's the case, I'd put all this out of my mind and go ride and enjoy it.

All the talk about "fun" is kinda misleading too. Intervals are fun for some, not for others. A nice, conversational pace ride is boring to some people. The real question comes down to, do you feel your time on the bike is leading to your goals as a cyclist?


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## JohnStonebarger (Jan 22, 2004)

Maybe the term "junk miles" (or my preference, "garbage miles") is inflamatory. Maybe some other phrase would better lend itself to illustrating the larger issue: cyclists tend to fixate on mileage, which is not a good thing. Most of us have jobs, families, and other interests; purposeful training bears much more fruit than just clocking miles. Once you're done training, don't fall in the habit of piling on garbage miles. Instead, get some rest and get a life.


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## rydbyk (Feb 17, 2010)

BeeCharmer said:


> Junk miles only exist in the 'time crunched cyclist' world. If you'd ride along with euro pros in the off season, you'd realize that most of the miles they do would be considered junk miles by folks here. They provide a base of fitness, keep your cycling enjoyable and keep winter weight off.



Yep...in other words, junk miles are sort of like "base miles" when you should NOT be doing base miles If you are looking to be competitive during the race season, you should not be doing "base miles". Recovery rides can be similar base miles though...


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## iliveonnitro (Feb 19, 2006)

BeeCharmer said:


> Junk miles only exist in the 'time crunched cyclist' world. If you'd ride along with euro pros in the off season, you'd realize that most of the miles they do would be considered junk miles by folks here.


Actually, for how much volume they actually do, this isn't quite right.

Sure, L2 for 2hrs is "junk;" but, L2 for 6hrs day-after-day is quality training.


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## mimason (Oct 7, 2006)

Since when is junk bad? I kinda like my junk. What's wrong with putting miles on your junk?


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## Kerry Irons (Feb 25, 2002)

*Junking it*



perttime said:


> Junk miles is when your riding is not following a training program defined using one of the existing doctrines.
> 
> (e.g. any riding that I do)


I'm with you!!!!


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## Gatorback (Jul 11, 2009)

I think the phrase "junk miles" becomes much more important in situations in which your time to train is limited. 

For runners, most people can only handle a certain amount of mileage. If your body can only handle 50 miles a week you are much better off making sure every mile you run has a specific purpose (including recovery). The junk miles are those that are run too hard to be recovery but too easy to have the effects of tempo runs, VO2 max workouts, etc.

For cyclists, I think the bigger limitation is simply time to train because the bike doesn't beat us up like running. If we've only got 8 hours a week to ride, you have to make the most of them. You won't be getting as much training benefit with the "not hard but not easy" time on the bike than if you really focus on recovering on days you need to recover and getting in quality workouts with your limited time. 

Now if you've got 25 hours a week to ride, and can spend your time off the bike resting and doing other things to recover (like a pro cyclist), then you might spend a lot of time increasing volume and riding in that no-man's land of lots of upper zone 2/lower zone 3 riding.


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## jlandry (Jan 12, 2007)

"I think the phrase "junk miles" becomes much more important in situations in which your time to train is limited."

This sums it all up right here.
Great feedback from everyone, but this quote makes it all clearer now. :thumbsup:

BTW, there's some sweet training nuggets throughout this whole thread.


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## waldo425 (Sep 22, 2008)

They don't exist to me. Miles are miles in my mind.


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## Sojourneyman (Jun 22, 2007)

if you're still relatively new to cycling, there aren't any junk miles.


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## Alex_Simmons/RST (Jan 12, 2008)

Junk miles is any riding not relevant to achieving your particular goals. Be it a fitness goal, weight loss goal, an upgrade goal, a racing goal, completing first sportive, riding for fun goal, pro/national team selection, winning a Grand Tour, whatever.

If it ain't contributing to the primary reason for being on the bike, then it's junk.

e.g. a light fun easy spin would not be junk for a pro racer if that's a way of keeping motivated (e.g. a spin with some mates/kids), keeping a key sponsor happy, or generating goodwill which will benefit them in the long run in their career.


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## perttime (Jun 27, 2005)

Alex_Simmons/RST said:


> If it ain't contributing to the primary reason for being on the bike, then it's junk.


Excellent.

My primary reason for being on a bike is to enjoy being on a bike. So, it only becomes junk if I am bored, or really uncomfortable for some reason.


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