# On 23mm wide rims, which width tires?



## miataeric

I'm looking to upgrade to a new set of wheels over the winter, and along with it, new tires. I'm currently looking at the multitude of wheelsets out there that come with the newly popular 23mm wide rims, as the benefits they seem to offer over traditional width rims seem like something that would be good for me.
Many of the different wheel builder sites tout how much more efficient and smoother a 23c tire rides on the wider rims, but I haven't seen much on 25c tires. I've heard and read lots on 25c tires becoming more popular on traditional width rims, even amongst pro peletons. 
As I do my research for the right wheel/tire combo for me and my budget, I'm just trying to see if the 25c tires offer any sort of advantage over a 23c on the wider rims compared to how they reportedly do on skinnier rims. For the record, I'm currently ~195 lbs and ride on mostly smooth roads with the usual road FOD, and I tend to ride at a faster recreational pace, not racing at the moment.
I'm still a noob to the sport, so I hope this doesn't come as too naive a question. I appreciate any advice and input. Thanks!


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## bikerjulio

We are exactly the same weight.

I'm riding a set of Pacentis on one of my bikes. Installed 25mm PR4's which then measure very close to 28mm.

I can safely run 75# and 90# for a very nice & fast ride.


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## miataeric

Are you running traditional width (19mm?) rims, or 23mm ones?


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## bikerjulio

miataeric said:


> Are you running traditional width (19mm?) rims, or 23mm ones?


Pacentis are 24mm outside. Called SL23 though.


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## NealH

The advantage of a 25 tire is that you can run lower pressures, which will provide a better (smoother) ride. A 25 tire on a 20 rim will ride better than a 23 tire on a 23 rim - assuming the 23 tire is pumped higher in pressure. If they are pumped to the same pressure, they will likely ride very similar - although the 25 tire will be less prone to pinch flats since it has a greater volume of air. 

So tire pressure tends to be the dominating factor, not so much rim width. A wider rim does offer a slight advantage as it increases the contact area especially at lower pressures - and perhaps adds just a touch of stability since there is less of the "light bulb" effect....but I am only speculating on this. I'm not an expert. 

Its tire pressure that really makes the difference. 

I run 25 tires (Conti 4000) on Shimano DA C24 clinchers and its very nice. Veloflex tires in 25 provide an even nicer feel on the road, as do the Vittoria evo CX in 25, but they don't have the robust durance of the Conti tires. And yet the Conti offer very good performance too. 

The Shimano wheels have a lively feel and are plenty stiff enough, and have no weight limit. I have other wheels but these are my favorites. 

I would not over do the rim width. I do thing\k wider might be slightly better due to improved stability (perhaps) and slightly more aero since there is less light bulb effect. But make no mistake, nothing trumps tire pressure. I never put over 80# in the tires, and usually put 75 in the front. You need 25's for this as there is too much risk with pinch flats on 23's. Also, a 23 might not be stable enough on fast descents with less than 80 or 85#. If I was running 23's, I think they would be pumped to 90#.


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## miataeric

NealH, thanks for the reply. It makes sense to not put so much emphasis on the width of the rim compared to proper tire inflation, which is something I really plan to experiment more with. I currently have mounted up to my trainer for mostly indoor riding over the winter, but was previously riding a 25c Gatorskin on the front at 100 psi and a 23c Conti UltraRace (came on the bike) at 110 psi.
I'm thinking I will end up upgrading to 23mm wide rims and run 25c tires on them at slightly lower pressures, which will have to be determined on the road


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## Typetwelve

I'm running 23mm pro4 tires on my 23mm wide ROL wheels...depending on if I wanted to roll fast and hard or long distance, at 6' tall, 170lbs I would run 90 for longer rides and 110 for faster rides. It really made for a great ride. Cornering was improved ad was ride quality.


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## Guest

Probably road shock would be reduced a bit with 25mm tires on your new rims. A little more air volume and moderate pressure levels. Also a little more weight. If it does not jell for you then next set of tires go back to 23's.


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## Lookbiker

Just make sure that you can fit 25mm tires when running 23-24mm rims. I have some friends who ran into clearance problems with that combination so they went back to 23mm tires on those new wider rims.


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## Social Climber

Lookbiker said:


> Just make sure that you can fit 25mm tires when running 23-24mm rims. I have some friends who ran into clearance problems with that combination so they went back to 23mm tires on those new wider rims.


This. The tire is going to sit wider on the wider rim so you need to make sure you have clearance. 

FWIW I have 23mm rims (HED Ardennes) with 23mm tires (Conti GP4000s). The advantage of the wider rim in the first place is that it allows you to run lower pressure than you would with a narrower rim. HED recommends about 10% lower than what you would normally run with a 19mm rim. Also, the tire doesn't take on that light bulb shape that it would if it is wider than the rim. Supposedly this is more aero, whether it makes a real difference is questionable.


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## looigi

Not sure anybody mentioned this, but tires measure wider on wider rims. Tires that measure 23mm on 19mm rims measure ~25mm on 23mm rims (assuming commensurate increase in inner bead width). 25mm tires measure more like 27.5mm. It's mainly the fact that the tire is actually wider on wider rims that allows running lower pressures.


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## miataeric

Thank you all for the good inputs. I think I will look at 23c tires to start as my current frame is an older racing frame, so I think fitting a 25c tire that presents an even wider profile may cause me issues.


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## dcb

That's probably a good decision if you think clearance is an issue. Once you've seen how the 23's fit you can decide if you can/want to run 25's in the future. I also think this is so dependent on the exact rims and tires someone uses as the inner bead width and tire size varies so much from brand to brand.


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## Clipped_in

I'm 195# riding Pacenti SL23 and I run 23mm Michelin P4 Endurance. I really like this setup, and I run 85psi front and 90 psi rear. And, I put some good mileage with lot of rides in the 75-100 mile range on these with a stiff frame bike, and I don't find comfort to be an issue.


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## skinewmexico

HED and FLO recommended I run 23, Neuvation recommended 25. So that's what I did.


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## GRAVELBIKE

The narrowest I run are 25mm, with preferred width being 28mm. I weigh 195#, and regularly ride on dirt roads/trails.


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## RedViola

skinewmexico said:


> HED and FLO recommended I run 23, Neuvation recommended 25. So that's what I did.


I see what you did there.


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## Merckx Ti

Lookbiker said:


> Just make sure that you can fit 25mm tires when running 23-24mm rims. I have some friends who ran into clearance problems with that combination so they went back to 23mm tires on those new wider rims.


One other thing no one else has mentioned about wider rims. While others have correctly pointed out that a 25mm tire will be wider on a wide rim. (Example of the mentioned 25mm tire now measuring 28mm wide)
However, no onre has pointed that same 28mm wide tire will also be about 28mm "TALL". 

This was a recent problem for me when I switched my 6.2 Domane to an RXL wheel and 25mm Michelin Pro 4's. I went from having 6mm of tire clearance to my 2012 Red Black brakes down to 2mm of clearance. Now riding in wet conditions with the tires picking up small gravel, dirt and stuff the bottom of my black brakes are now silver. Now I'm gonna need to switch to other tires.


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## ls1togo

I run Hed Belgium C2's with Dt-Swiss 240S hubs mounted with 25mm Vittoria Cx's which measure 27.45mm...the a/p is 85psi frt and 90psi rear, I could probably drop them another 5 psi....I've also used Mavic Yskion 25mm front and rear (measure 26.18mm) 

I've also run Shimano RS-80's with a variety of 23mm and 25mm tires....the RS-80's have the same carbon/scandium rim as NealH's CL24's...(the hub is Ultegra)...the RS-80's were fabulous wheels, light, spun up fast and never needed truing or spoke tightening even though I at times weighed as much as 235lbs......these were 16/20 spoke bomb proof wheels!!..but I was interested in all the hype about 23mm wheels and I wanted better handling and a improved ride.

The Hed Belgium C2's / and Vittoria's have far exceeded my expectations!!!....they are the most comfortable wheels and tires I've ever used (Mavics not as good),...and the handling, particularly on 35-40mph twisty descents is confidence inspiring!!!....

All of this is exactly what I was looking for...my old bike was a 2008 Lemond Buenos Aires (carbon) with no consistent clearance for a 25mm tire,...my current ride, 2012 Ridley Helium has plenty of room and there is just comparison in performance quality....best equipment decision I've made (but now has me wondering about HED 25mm wheels?..maybe tubeless?  

btw, I currently weigh 195


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## rruff

miataeric said:


> Many of the different wheel builder sites tout how much more efficient and smoother a 23c tire rides on the wider rims, but I haven't seen much on 25c tires. I've heard and read lots on 25c tires becoming more popular on traditional width rims, even amongst pro peletons.


It's marketing and placebo... ie mostly BS. 

Wider rims won't give you a smoother ride (slightly the opposite), *unless* you reduce pressure or run bigger tires. 

Cornering might be a hair better particularly if you are running fat tires or reduce pressure. 

The biggest thing on the plus side is better aero performance and less susceptibility to crosswinds... but that only happens if the rims is deep enough and rounded, like the Pacenti SL23 or Kinlin XC279. The Hed and H+Son rims are probably decent. The A23 definitely not. 

*Plus, you lose that aero advantage if you put on a wider tire.* Pros run tubulars, not clinchers. Tubular tires do not become wider on wide rims, unlike clinchers. So when a pro puts a 25mm tubular on a wide rim, it is like putting a 23mm tire on a wide clincher. 

Since you aren't racing, aero probably won't matter too much to you unless you ride in winds that are super high. And your roads are smooth (sounds nice!) so ride comfort isn't a problem either. As you said clearance might be tight, so that is the deciding factor.


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## Jay Strongbow

bikerjulio said:


> Pacentis are 24mm outside. Called SL23 though.
> 
> View attachment 288658


Good graphic. Thanks for posting it.

I know it's not actual pictures so perhaps not perfectly to scale but it probably explains why people are having problems getting tires on those Pancetis. It also shows where they cut material to make them bigger without gaining weight compared to similar rims. Wonder if the spoke bed area will hold up to cracks over long term abuse? Looks pretty thin compared to the others.


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