# The Tour has become incredibly boring



## DaveW88 (Sep 3, 2006)

Breakaways always get caught. Sprint finishes; meh. Team Sky is obviously going to control thing until the end. The formula for winning has been established and any drama has been eliminated.


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## greatestalltime (Aug 20, 2012)

Sagan being out hasn't helped. That was as stupid, misguided, and incorrect single decision I've seen in sports. How could a decision making group be so wrong. 

Maybe Aru can make it interesting.


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## Marc (Jan 23, 2005)

DaveW88 said:


> Breakaways always get caught. Sprint finishes; meh. Team Sky is obviously going to control thing until the end. The formula for winning has been established and any drama has been eliminated.


Become? It has been that way for a long while.




greatestalltime said:


> Sagan being out hasn't helped. That was as stupid, misguided, and incorrect single decision I've seen in sports. How could a decision making group be so wrong.





greatestalltime said:


> Maybe Aru can make it interesting.




O really?

Sagan was basically a shoe-in automatic for the green jersey since before the tour. Him being in wouldn't have made for interest for anyone other than his fan-base.


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## KoroninK (Aug 9, 2010)

Marc said:


> O really?
> 
> Sagan was basically a shoe-in automatic for the green jersey since before the tour. Him being in wouldn't have made for interest for anyone other than his fan-base.
> [/FONT]


Agree with this. His being there was exciting for his fan base. Him being out thus his fan base looses interest. Not a surprise. Nothing to complain about either. There are plenty of us who are fans of Valverde that totally lost interest in the Tour when he got hurt with a season ending injury. His still being in this race may have made it more exciting on a few stages, but not a guarantee.


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## cda 455 (Aug 9, 2010)

I hoping the morrow's stage will provide some excitement.


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## Marc (Jan 23, 2005)

KoroninK said:


> Agree with this. His being there was exciting for his fan base. Him being out thus his fan base looses interest. Not a surprise. Nothing to complain about either. There are plenty of us who are fans of Valverde that totally lost interest in the Tour when he got hurt with a season ending injury. His still being in this race may have made it more exciting on a few stages, but not a guarantee.



Arguably the least predictable most interesting classification in grand tour racing today...is the Lanterne Rouge. You never know who will have it or how long they'll keep it from year to year.

Olivier Le Gac just lost it, today, to Luke Rowe by 30 seconds. Both about 2 hours down on GC.


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## den bakker (Nov 13, 2004)

DaveW88 said:


> Breakaways always get caught. Sprint finishes; meh. Team Sky is obviously going to control thing until the end. The formula for winning has been established and any drama has been eliminated.


bye
don't let the door hit you on the way out.


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## daddyjakes (Aug 13, 2011)

I was watching a recent stage and Quintana drifted back to his team car. Christian Vande Velde made a comment that none of his Movistar team mates were near him. He follows it with something like maybe they all have given up trying to win. I thought it was hysterical.


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## KoroninK (Aug 9, 2010)

daddyjakes said:


> I was watching a recent stage and Quintana drifted back to his team car. Christian Vande Velde made a comment that none of his Movistar team mates were near him. He follows it with something like maybe they all have given up trying to win. I thought it was hysterical.


Well I think there's more to his comment than what he said. After Valverde got hurt, buried in the press release the team put out they made a comment, we must put all our efforts into getting Alejandro healthy our season is over. Also if you've watched the team and/or read comments from team members they are totally lost and have no direction at all. We are basically watching the team fall apart which is not fully surprising. When Valverde was banned for doping in 2010 the team fell apparent and did not recover until he got back in 2012. This team is doing the same thing right now. Also remember Vande Velde knows Valverde and several other members of the team. He may not know them well depending on how good his Spanish is, but he does know a few of the guys on that team.


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## SNS1938 (Aug 9, 2013)

daddyjakes said:


> I was watching a recent stage and Quintana drifted back to his team car. Christian Vande Velde made a comment that none of his Movistar team mates were near him. He follows it with something like maybe they all have given up trying to win. I thought it was hysterical.


Similarly, Porte trying to hang with sprinters on I think stage 2's uphill sprint finish, seemed like he'd given up on winning the GC, and was trying for a stage that he wasn't going to win. And then another stage had two BMC riders off in a break or something doing their own thing. BMC didn't have the Sky/Postal commitment to all work for one person. 

Froom/Sky have had this race sewn up for months, they selected/bought better support riders, and have made/motivated them to work for Froome's GC win, and nothing else (yet).


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## cda 455 (Aug 9, 2010)

SNS1938 said:


> Similarly, Porte trying to hang with sprinters on I think stage 2's uphill sprint finish, seemed like he'd given up on winning the GC, and was trying for a stage that he wasn't going to win. And then another stage had two BMC riders off in a break or something doing their own thing. BMC didn't have the Sky/Postal commitment to all work for one person.
> 
> Froom/Sky have had this race sewn up for months, they selected/bought better support riders, and have made/motivated them to work for Froome's GC win, and nothing else (yet).


Yep; as well as perfecting doping doses/frequency, etc........


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## bvber (Apr 23, 2011)

DaveW88 said:


> Sprint finishes; meh.





greatestalltime said:


> Sagan being out hasn't helped.


Cav being out hasn't helped the sprint finishes either.


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## Mapei (Feb 3, 2004)

I continue to love the Tour de France. And all the grand tours. They're like novels. They're like long-form TV series where recurring characters battle it out in each episode. 

It's not the outcome that's so interesting. It's the process. The day-by-day struggle. It's watching young bucks make their presence felt, current stars doing their best to maintain their grip, and fading stars trying to prove they still matter. 

There's danger at every corner. At every pothole and piece of road furniture. There are the crazy fans. There's the battle against exhaustion and injury. Will your favorite stay upright and be able to fight again another day? Will the authorities descend on the peloton and capriciously toss somebody out? Will the King of the Peloton pompously assert his authority and order the race to stop so he can blow his nose? Yes, there's comedy, too. Venality and bravery ever exist side by side, cheek to jowl. It doesn't hurt that the action plays out against extraordinarily beautiful backdrops.

To me denigrating the grand tours because the outcome is less than in doubt is like denigrating a romantic novel because it ends with "And they lived happily ever after."


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## Oxtox (Aug 16, 2006)

Mapei said:


> I continue to love the Tour de France. And all the grand tours. They're like novels. They're like long-form TV series where recurring characters battle it out in each episode.
> 
> It's not the outcome that's so interesting. It's the process. The day-by-day struggle. It's watching young bucks make their presence felt, current stars doing their best to maintain their grip, and fading stars trying to prove they still matter.
> 
> ...


I'm with you...there's plenty to like even if your favorite rider or team isn't in the mix.

after watching a stage it's almost impossible for me to not grab the bike and go out for some miles...seeing the pros in action just inspires me to ride.


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## troutmd (Sep 7, 2007)

With all due respect to the forum, and perhaps but a few exceptions, Big Mig fabricated the formula for what the TDF has become.


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## DaveG (Feb 4, 2004)

troutmd said:


> With all due respect to the forum, and perhaps but a few exceptions, Big Mig fabricated the formula for what the TDF has become.


I hated the Mig years. Mig never took any chances, never showed any panache. He just marked the other favorites in the mountains and then destroyed everyone in the TTs. When Riis finally beat him (on dope) I was elated, although it was a little sad watching Mig's face knowing that it was all over


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## cda 455 (Aug 9, 2010)

troutmd said:


> With all due respect to the forum, and perhaps but a few exceptions, Big Mig fabricated the formula for what the TDF has become.


That's a very interesting take.


And it definitely seems like it.


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## Skewer (Sep 13, 2011)

Real riders don't think the TDF is ever boring. We get it, you miss Sagan's wheelies and jumping over curbs, his good looks, his goofy laugh, and his 2nd, 3d place finishes to real sprinters.


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## 32and3cross (Feb 28, 2005)

Skewer said:


> Real riders don't think the TDF is ever boring. We get it, you miss Sagan's wheelies and jumping over curbs, his good looks, his goofy laugh, and his 2nd, 3d place finishes to real sprinters.


Actually we do, this tour from the moment they announced the route promised to be on the more boring side and its surpassed those expectations, its really boring.


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## aclinjury (Sep 12, 2011)

Have you guys been following Lance Armstrong's podcast of the Tour? His podcasts are possibly more interesting. (Don't turn my opinion into a doping debate, aight)

And for those complaining the Tour is boring, well it has been like this for the last 5 years with Sky. The Giro has been more interesting because there Sky has no control.


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## coldash (May 7, 2012)

aclinjury said:


> Have you guys been following Lance Armstrong's podcast of the Tour? His podcasts are possibly more interesting. (Don't turn my opinion into a doping debate, aight)
> 
> And for those complaining the Tour is boring, well it has been like this for the last 5 years with Sky. The Giro has been more interesting because there Sky has no control.


Last 5 years? Odd, I always thought that Nibali rode for Astana when he won it in 2014.


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## Neolithic (Mar 24, 2015)

Mapei said:


> I continue to love the Tour de France. And all the grand tours. They're like novels. They're like long-form TV series where recurring characters battle it out in each episode.
> 
> It's not the outcome that's so interesting. It's the process. The day-by-day struggle. It's watching young bucks make their presence felt, current stars doing their best to maintain their grip, and fading stars trying to prove they still matter.
> 
> ...


I'm with you on this. When you pay attention to the subtleties of the moment you can find all sorts of excitement. I was rather into NASCAR a decade ago (go fast turn left!). I love me some defensive slogs in the NFL. With the TdF you can switch between GC, Sprint, or KoM. You can watch for stage hunting or hope for a successful breakaway. And you can change that focus from stage to stage.


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## bvber (Apr 23, 2011)

Mapei said:


> Yes, there's comedy, too.


Agreed. Not comedy for the one who's suffering but...






This is why I don't like the idea of bib shorts.


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## Rashadabd (Sep 17, 2011)

Skewer said:


> Real riders don't think the TDF is ever boring. We get it, you miss Sagan's wheelies and jumping over curbs, his good looks, his goofy laugh, and his 2nd, 3d place finishes to real sprinters.


Uh no.... don't try to prop yourself up as the only "real rider" simply because you love this stuff. There are plenty of "real riders" (whatever that means) that love other races, just not the TdF. Some serious cyclists/pro cycling fans love the Classics (like me), others love the Giro, for others, Cyclocross toots their whistle, etc. Falling in love with a particular race has nothing to do with your riding IMO.


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## BCSaltchucker (Jul 20, 2011)

aclinjury said:


> Have you guys been following Lance Armstrong's podcast of the Tour? His podcasts are possibly more interesting. (Don't turn my opinion into a doping debate, aight)
> 
> And for those complaining the Tour is boring, well it has been like this for the last 5 years with Sky. The Giro has been more interesting because there Sky has no control.


In yesterday's Vlog, Lance started out by pretending to be asleep .. cause the Tour became so boring, LOL

But hehe .. not so boring finish today! we have a race now


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## cda 455 (Aug 9, 2010)

bvber said:


> Agreed. Not comedy for the one who's suffering but...
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I gotta shiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiii..............:lol: :lol: !!


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## Red90 (Apr 2, 2013)

The tour is not boring to me. If you take the time to understand each team, rider, course and strategy, it is still a wonderful sport to watch. Add to it we all ride and can relate to the pain, suffering and magnitude of what they are doing.

Now... if you ask me if it can be more exciting, I'd agree there can be changes to increase the dynamics of the competition. With the amount of money and effort put into the science of training, nutrition, communications etc... the competition has become more surgical and precise. I think it takes away from the more instinctive organic racing that once was more dominant in the tour. Don't get me wrong, the racing is still unpredictable with crashes, sickness and other factors that can't always be controlled. However I think if you leave the racing more to the group of guys riding on the road, making their own decisions without as much input from team managers telling each rider when to hammer, attack or fall back, you'll get a much more dynamic race.

Changes can also be made in how Teams get their funding to try to even out how lob sided they are.

It's still very entertaining though.


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## aclinjury (Sep 12, 2011)

coldash said:


> Last 5 years? Odd, I always thought that Nibali rode for Astana when he won it in 2014.


exciting due to Froome and Conti crashing out. Pretty damn sad if you need injuries to other dominant players to crash out to make things exciting


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## troutmd (Sep 7, 2007)

cda 455 said:


> That's a very interesting take.
> 
> 
> And it definitely seems like it.


Today was an exciting stage that resulted in about a 20 second shift amongst the top protagonists.

Last year the TDF winner took 3 minute out of his chief rivals in one stage --- the ITT.


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## love4himies (Jun 12, 2012)

aclinjury said:


> Have you guys been following Lance Armstrong's podcast of the Tour? His podcasts are possibly more interesting. (Don't turn my opinion into a doping debate, aight)
> 
> And for those complaining the Tour is boring, well it has been like this for the last 5 years with Sky. The Giro has been more interesting because there Sky has no control.


Absolutely. I'm loving the Giro much more than le Tour.


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## KoroninK (Aug 9, 2010)

Rashadabd said:


> Uh no.... don't try to prop yourself up as the only "real rider" simply because you love this stuff. There are plenty of "real riders" (whatever that means) that love other races, just not the TdF. Some serious cyclists/pro cycling fans love the Classics (like me), others love the Giro, for others, Cyclocross toots their whistle, etc. Falling in love with a particular race has nothing to do with your riding IMO.


This. The Tour is not everyone favorite race to start with. It's one of my least favorite races of the season. Now add in that Valverde is out with a nasty crash (thankfully now appears to only be season ending and not career ending) it makes it even less worth watching. Like Rashadabd my favorite races are the classics. Paris-Roubiax is my favorite race of the season. (Yep I do watch races that Valverde is not part of).


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## DaveW88 (Sep 3, 2006)

Greg Lemond just **** himself while riding.


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## hfc (Jan 24, 2003)

troutmd said:


> Today was an exciting stage that resulted in about a 20 second shift amongst the top protagonists.
> 
> Last year the TDF winner took 3 minute out of his chief rivals in one stage --- the ITT.


Today was not an exciting stage (until it was, ha ha, for the last 3 minutes). The only drama disappeared when Cummings lead dropped below 2-3 minutes. My son and I spent most of the stage "marveling" at how Kariyenko dropped over half the peloton on the HC climb and how Kwiatkowski dropped everyone else except for the final 10 or so on the last climb, including pulling Froome back after that mistake on the descent. It was truly shocking, however, that Froome couldn't answer the bell at the finale.


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## troutmd (Sep 7, 2007)

hfc said:


> Today was not an exciting stage (until it was, ha ha, for the last 3 minutes).


My bad --- I only watched the last 3 minutes.


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## SNS1938 (Aug 9, 2013)

Unless Froome crashes out, or a new rider appears, Froome will just keep winning, so there is no excitement about who will win. Until Sagan was kicked out, he was all but guaranteed the green. Is there anyone challenging Yates for white?


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## bvber (Apr 23, 2011)

Obnoxious fans are the reason why I lose interest in watching the mountain stages. Here's an example today (stage 15) where little kids are watching among the spectators and a supposedly a grown man does this.


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## PBL450 (Apr 12, 2014)

bvber said:


> Obnoxious fans are the reason why I lose interest in watching the mountain stages. Here's an example today (stage 15) where little kids are watching among the spectators and a supposedly a grown man does this.
> 
> View attachment 319807


Yeah? So? This has always gone on, notice the giant penis' in chalk on previous stages? Consider that many developed, northern cultures place very little concern on nudity. It's people, with bodies. Oh NOOOO! Sure it's stupid stuff but who cares. I'm not chastising you, go leave and don't watch if human nudity bothers you so much. In the immortal words of denbakker, "don't let the door hit you in the azz on the way out."


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## Oxtox (Aug 16, 2006)

bvber said:


> Obnoxious fans are the reason why I lose interest in watching the mountain stages. Here's an example today (stage 15) where little kids are watching among the spectators and a supposedly a grown man does this.


playing the 'kids' card...? 

as long as the naked guy didn't impede anyone's line, who cares...


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## bvber (Apr 23, 2011)

PBL450 said:


> notice the giant penis' in chalk on previous stages?


Way ahead of you --> http://forums.roadbikereview.com/pr...ussn-tread-spoilers-327397-2.html#post4667989 



> Consider that many developed, northern cultures place very little concern on nudity. It's people, with bodies. Oh NOOOO! Sure it's stupid stuff but who cares. I'm not chastising you, go leave and don't watch if human nudity bothers you so much.


Like I already stated, "_Obnoxious fans are the reason why I lose interest in watching the mountain stages_".
BTW, I wouldn't mind if it was an attractive young woman doing that but for some reason that never happens, at least the stages I've watched.


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## den bakker (Nov 13, 2004)

bvber said:


> Way ahead of you --> http://forums.roadbikereview.com/pr...ussn-tread-spoilers-327397-2.html#post4667989
> 
> 
> Like I already stated, "_Obnoxious fans are the reason why I lose interest in watching the mountain stages_".
> BTW, I wouldn't mind if it was an attractive young woman doing that but for some reason that never happens, at least the stages I've watched.


well at least we got sorted out that the children defense was horse shite. Sorry your day got ruined by seen a naked male ass.


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## ogre (Dec 16, 2005)

To the streaker's credit, he does seem to be trying to cover his junk with his left hand as he runs. He must have been thinking of the kidz.


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## bvber (Apr 23, 2011)

den bakker said:


> well at least we got sorted out that the children defense was horse shite. Sorry your day got ruined by seen a naked male ass.


I'll repeat, it's the obnoxiousness, more than anything else. If an attractive young woman shows off her skin but acts in obnoxious manner, I would have minded.


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## bvber (Apr 23, 2011)

ogre said:


> To the streaker's credit, he does seem to be trying to cover his junk with his left hand as he runs. He must have been thinking of the kidz.


So far, all the posters responded after my post focused on nudity. This confirms once again that sex sells. :lol:


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## den bakker (Nov 13, 2004)

bvber said:


> I'll repeat, it's the obnoxiousness, more than anything else. If an attractive young woman shows off her skin but acts in obnoxious manner, I would have minded.


" BTW, I wouldn't mind if it was an attractive young woman doing that but for some reason that never happens, at least the stages I've watched. " 
you'd mind her "doing that" or not?


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## bvber (Apr 23, 2011)

den bakker said:


> " BTW, I wouldn't mind if it was an attractive young woman doing that but for some reason that never happens, at least the stages I've watched. "
> you'd mind her "doing that" or not?


If you interpreted my "that" as in showing her skin, then no. If you interpreted my "that" as in acting obnoxiously, then yes.


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## Neolithic (Mar 24, 2015)

On the subject of the streaker, kudos to the camera for quickly moving him out of the framing and the commentators for completely ignoring it. That way it gets relegated to exactly what it is, an idiot doing a dumb thing for a moment and nothing more.


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## den bakker (Nov 13, 2004)

bvber said:


> If you interpreted my "that" as in showing her skin, then no. If you interpreted my "that" as in acting obnoxiously, then yes.


fully dressed male runs next to a cyclist. think of the children


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## fast ferd (Jan 30, 2009)

Neolithic said:


> On the subject of the streaker, kudos to the camera for quickly moving him out of the framing and the commentators for completely ignoring it. That way it gets relegated to exactly what it is, an idiot doing a dumb thing for a moment and nothing more.


The male streaker just wanted his 15 millimeters of fame!


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## bvber (Apr 23, 2011)

den bakker said:


> fully dressed male runs next to a cyclist. think of the children


Did you mean _acting obnoxiously next to a cyclist_? If so, then yes, think of the children and the nudity compounds the issue. I happened to pick one of the boldest examples seen on TV to post.

BTW, are you still fixated on the nudity aspect? Perhaps the phenomena known as "sex sells" is much stronger than I thought. :shocked:


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## den bakker (Nov 13, 2004)

bvber said:


> Did you mean _acting obnoxiously next to a cyclist_? If so, then yes, think of the children and the nudity compounds the issue. I happened to pick one of the boldest examples seen on TV to post.
> 
> BTW, are you still fixated on the nudity aspect? Perhaps the phenomena known as "sex sells" is much stronger than I thought. :shocked:


no i meant what i wrote. what else would I take from that still picture?


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## bvber (Apr 23, 2011)

den bakker said:


> no i meant what i wrote. what else would I take from that still picture?


You could have asked for clarification...
The internet forum posting isn't a very efficient method of communication.


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## den bakker (Nov 13, 2004)

bvber said:


> You could have asked for clarification...
> The internet forum posting isn't a very efficient method of communication.


given quite a few "got it wrong" maybe it's the original post that's the problem and not the responses. 
Poorly written posts. Think of the children.


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## tlg (May 11, 2011)

bvber said:


> You could have asked for clarification...
> The internet forum posting isn't a very efficient method of communication.


Sure it is. You can't blame the forum for inefficient communication. The forum doesn't change or alter what you post. The only thing to blame on inefficient communication is the inefficient communicator.

It's 100% clear what you mean when you post a picture of a mans butt and say "little kids are watching".


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## bike981 (Sep 14, 2010)

I continue to believe that the TdF should alter its rules for the yellow jersey to include the requirement that the wearer must have won at least one stage. That is, first winnow the riders to those that have won at least one stage and then award yellow to the rider among the stage winners group with the lowest total elapsed time.


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## bvber (Apr 23, 2011)

den bakker said:


> given quite a few "got it wrong" maybe it's the original post that's the problem and not the responses.
> Poorly written posts. Think of the children.


If you or other observers can see the poster's facial expression as in face to face conversation, then perhaps the messages get delivered more accurately. Misinterpretation is so common on internet forums that it's basically a norm.


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## bvber (Apr 23, 2011)

tlg said:


> It's 100% clear what you mean when you post a picture of a mans butt and say "little kids are watching".


Back then I didn't realize how strongly "sex sells". Hmm..., maybe I can capitalize on this...:idea:


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## den bakker (Nov 13, 2004)

bike981 said:


> I continue to believe that the TdF should alter its rules for the yellow jersey to include the requirement that the wearer must have won at least one stage. That is, first winnow the riders to those that have won at least one stage and then award yellow to the rider among the stage winners group with the lowest total elapsed time.


what really would that change? there has been 6 cases of the final winner not winning a stage. last one in 2006. 
Why putting down Lemonds win in 1990?


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## den bakker (Nov 13, 2004)

bvber said:


> If you or other observers can see the poster's facial expression as in face to face conversation, then perhaps the messages get delivered more accurately. Misinterpretation is so common on internet forums that it's basically a norm.


sure. it's the fault of everyone else. 
have a nice one.


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## bvber (Apr 23, 2011)

den bakker said:


> sure. it's the fault of everyone else.


Did you mean it's the fault of the format? If so, then yes. I mean, you can't equate this (internet forum) with face to face communication. Or are you trying to?


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## Neolithic (Mar 24, 2015)

To add to the excitement I would love to see the elimination of radios. You get time splits from the bikes and if you want coaching you go back to the team car and fight your way back. Directors can come up with plans and teams can rehearse them but let those with boots on the ground be responsible for their own decisions when things change.


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## Oxtox (Aug 16, 2006)

Neolithic said:


> To add to the excitement I would love to see the elimination of radios. You get time splits from the bikes and if you want coaching you go back to the team car and fight your way back. Directors can come up with plans and teams can rehearse them but let those with boots on the ground be responsible for their own decisions when things change.


amen to killing radios...

Jens had a good comment regarding them...he said they reduced riders to just being 'muscles'...no thought required to be a racer.


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## Migen21 (Oct 28, 2014)

*​*The way things have gone down so far, I can't help but wonder what might be different if Richie Porte were still in contention. Considering how strong he is at ITT, if he were close at all to Froome at this point, I think Sky's hand would be forced to attack to keep Froome in Yellow.

As it stands now, I'm not sure any of the remaining contenders can take enough time in TT to beat him.

It will be interesting to see what happens.


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## bvber (Apr 23, 2011)

*Not too boring today*

Good to see some balance. One of these obnoxious fans gets some discipline today.








That motorcycle security must be a strong dude. When he pushed with one arm, that chubby fan just flew into the ditch on the side of the road. Then the guy in dark blue cap was recording the chubby guy falling with his cellphone. :lol: Apparently, the chubby wasn't hurt. He emerged back in the screen right away.


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## Rashadabd (Sep 17, 2011)

Well, Sky will likely win again this year. At least it was more interesting this time. You had 3-4 guys within 30 seconds of each other for most of the last week of racing. I still prefer one day races and the Giro by a long shot, but this was the most exciting Tour of the last five or so. Like others have said, it could have been really interesting if a number of the top GC and sprint contenders weren't DQ'd or forced to abandon.


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## robm90 (Aug 5, 2010)

I think the major problem making the race boring and predictable is the lack of parity of the teams. No one has as deep a budget or team as SKY. In fact the drop off is massive after them. They can hold yellow through the whole tour and still crush all the other teams on the climbing days. It has become a boring and predictable scenario. None of the drama like from the days before they took over. The sport could learn a lot from the NFL about making the competition more interesting. Salary and budget caps could make the teams much more competitive with each other.


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## PJay (May 28, 2004)

robm90 said:


> I think the major problem making the race boring and predictable is the lack of parity of the teams. No one has as deep a budget or team as SKY. In fact the drop off is massive after them. They can hold yellow through the whole tour and still crush all the other teams on the climbing days. It has become a boring and predictable scenario. None of the drama like from the days before they took over. The sport could learn a lot from the NFL about making the competition more interesting. Salary and budget caps could make the teams much more competitive with each other.


I agree about the teams. Beyond the funding, another issue is that Sky decides to focus largely on TdF, while most other teams seek palmares in a range of events. This is how LA / Postal / Disco did it - and probably did it better: This targeting strategy had not been done previously, as far as I know, and well before the event Postal would reconnoiter entire stages in order to find likely places for attacking, and would review the final couple of miles of each stage.

To counter this, sure, there could be salary caps, but another idea would be for a team to achieve certain performances in other races within the recent year in order to be eligible. You have to qualify for the Boston marathon by having achieved a certain performance in another marathon recently, and in competitive ultimate frisbee your team has to have played a certain amount of sanctioned tournaments in order to get into sectionals, and so get into the annual competitive series; Ultimate Worlds is similar.

This would push Sky to diversify, and would favor a team like Movistar with 2 or 3 movie stars doing really well here and there through the year.


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## Rashadabd (Sep 17, 2011)

robm90 said:


> I think the major problem making the race boring and predictable is the lack of parity of the teams. No one has as deep a budget or team as SKY. In fact the drop off is massive after them. They can hold yellow through the whole tour and still crush all the other teams on the climbing days. It has become a boring and predictable scenario. None of the drama like from the days before they took over. The sport could learn a lot from the NFL about making the competition more interesting. Salary and budget caps could make the teams much more competitive with each other.


That's definitely a big part of it, no GC team is as deep as Sky. I don't think it has to be a super restrictive cap number or revenue sharing plan either. It's just needs to provide teams with enough to become a little bit deeper. A few teams actually have the talent to run with Sky head-to-head, but they have to split that talent over the Giro and TdF, trying to send winning teams to both so that their sponsors can get decent coverage all season long. Sky, on the other hand, has the resources to send a relatively strong/competitive "B" Team to the Giro each year while focusing on winning the TdF. Yes, they sent Thomas and Landa to the Giro, but they honestly/clearly could win without Thomas had he finished the Giro. Landa finished the Giro and still was valuable to Froome. If teams can get enough money to send a solid team to the Giro and still be able to bring 2-4 strong guys to the TdF to challenge Sky, I think the TdF becomes a much tougher battle. 

For instance, imagine how much closer/interesting the race might be if BMC showed up with Porte, Dennis, TVG, Oss, De Marchi, Kung, etc. or if Sunweb showed up with Dumoulin AND Barguil, Kelderman, Matthews, and Getche, etc. I personally think Dumoulin is the guy best suited to beat Froome if the course is right for him. Even Uran and Bardet could have brought stronger teams IF they made the TdF their primary/only focus. Bardet could have brought Pozzovivo and Montaguti and Uran could have been assisted by Formolo, Dombrowski, Viella, Slagter, a fresh Rolland, and Woods. It could be a completely different race if that happens.

They just need to be able to send a squad of this quality to the Giro and reserve everything else for the TdF if they want to win. Two teams still have a chance to win without it even....

TEAM SKY - Giro d'Italia 2017: Official Site


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## aclinjury (Sep 12, 2011)

As a "superbowl" of cycling, the TdF has been pretty damn uneventful ever since Wiggins won it. It's pathetic when a mechanical can inject more excitement in the race more then the athletes can. I look at any other big name sport, like the top soccer matches, the NFL, NBA, the marquee Olympics events, whenever big athletes come, there's guarantee to be excitement. Even the dominant Usain Bolt brings excitement even though we know he's gonna win. Even the dominant New England Patriots bring excitment to the Superbowl even though we know what they're going to do.

The way the TdF is right now, it's sort of similar to Formula1, that is, all the excitement is really happening in the pits and/or strategy if there's an accident bring out a yellow and/or some rain. But this is not to say it's the fault of Sky. Sky is merely a player in this game, and they're responding to what they think is a prestigous event in the eyes of the fans and thus the sponsor. As it is in pro cycling, the money discrepancy is just too much. You have 2-3 top teams and the rest are fodders. And it sure doesn't help when 1 of those top teams only focuses on the TdF and nothing else.

It's pretty ridiculous that domestique riders who quit Sky become GC contenders on other teams. Goes to show how deep pocketed Sky is. They are so well financed that they get first dips on all the good prospects, and when the prospects move on to other ambiitons, Sky will go out and get new good ones. Rinse and repeat.

Like someone mentioned above, there should be "qualifier" event. Teams need to win qualifying races to get a chance to compete at the "superbowl" of sport. Make the athletes compete, not just train secretly for a whole year and how up for the the superbowl. I don't know who this system would work, but there needs to be qualifiers.


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## BCSaltchucker (Jul 20, 2011)

so I guess it sucks when riders don't have the gas (ie hematocrit, ir EPO concentration) to light up the mtn stages.

albeit the IndurainEPO era was yet more boring then the Froome era - BY FAR. 5 years straight of winning it in TT. I don't even watch the TTs and never have.

I enjoyed this Tour, but like most woke up daily looking for a big explosion on mtns that never materialized. Hey it is a sport determined by GC and this is what happens many years by nature of being GC-won. Froome did not have the big attack he always had before, but it was still enough to control the race against so many lesser riders.


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## nenesse (Jun 3, 2017)

Get à Life, Man.
it was one of the tightest tours ever considering the shortage of moutain top finishes


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## Rashadabd (Sep 17, 2011)

nenesse said:


> Get à Life, Man.
> it was one of the tightest tours ever considering the shortage of moutain top finishes


I think what they are saying is, yes it was close, but it was still boring. Sky still controlled the whole way and won again....


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## Migen21 (Oct 28, 2014)

The announcers were even talking about it today. Unless something like a mechanical or a crash happens, there isn't much chance for Sky/Froome to be beaten, despite the closeness of the top few.

At this point, the only reason to watch is to see the pretty scenery, and wait for some kind of cray cray to happen.

I have better things to do with my mornings (ride my bike).


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## aclinjury (Sep 12, 2011)

Migen21 said:


> The announcers were even talking about it today. Unless something like a mechanical or a crash happens, there isn't much chance for Sky/Froome to be beaten, despite the closeness of the top few.
> 
> At this point, the only reason to watch is to see the pretty scenery, and wait for some kind of cray cray to happen.
> 
> I have better things to do with my mornings (ride my bike).


people would need to be crazy to sit watch a whole bicycle race, thank you Youtube for "Last Kilometers" videos. The Lance Armstrong post-race 40min podcast is more informative and entertaining.


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## Rashadabd (Sep 17, 2011)

Actually, people just need to be fanatics/addicted to watch a full bike race and some of us clearly are, lol.  I can't do it with grand tours or stage races, but I come dang close sometimes with some of the Classics. It's no different/worse than people that watch entire baseball games, golf or tennis matches, or NASCAR and F1 races IMO. Different strokes for different folks.


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## PBL450 (Apr 12, 2014)

Rashadabd said:


> That's definitely a big part of it, no GC team is as deep as Sky. I don't think it has to be a super restrictive cap number or revenue sharing plan either. It's just needs to provide teams with enough to become a little bit deeper. A few teams actually have the talent to run with Sky head-to-head, but they have to split that talent over the Giro and TdF, trying to send winning teams to both so that their sponsors can get decent coverage all season long. Sky, on the other hand, has the resources to send a relatively strong/competitive "B" Team to the Giro each year while focusing on winning the TdF. Yes, they sent Thomas and Landa to the Giro, but they honestly/clearly could win without Thomas had he finished the Giro. Landa finished the Giro and still was valuable to Froome. If teams can get enough money to send a solid team to the Giro and still be able to bring 2-4 strong guys to the TdF to challenge Sky, I think the TdF becomes a much tougher battle.
> 
> For instance, imagine how much closer/interesting the race might be if BMC showed up with Porte, Dennis, TVG, Oss, De Marchi, Kung, etc. or if Sunweb showed up with Dumoulin AND Barguil, Kelderman, Matthews, and Getche, etc. I personally think Dumoulin is the guy best suited to beat Froome if the course is right for him. Even Uran and Bardet could have brought stronger teams IF they made the TdF their primary/only focus. Bardet could have brought Pozzovivo and Montaguti and Uran could have been assisted by Formolo, Dombrowski, Viella, Slagter, a fresh Rolland, and Woods. It could be a completely different race if that happens.
> 
> ...


Ummm. This! ^^^^^


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## PBL450 (Apr 12, 2014)

A "Pro Cycling, TDF" sub forum with people saying it's crazy to watch the best cyclists in the world race bicycles... The irony is just amazing.


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## troutmd (Sep 7, 2007)

*Eddie avoid calling Froome a wheel sucker*

"This Tour lacks prestige," Merckx said. "I'd have liked to have seen Froome win a stage in the mountains. If he doesn't win a stage, that will leave a bitter taste."

Merckx tempered his words slightly when he met Froome, though the sentiment remained. "I hope he wins the time trial, it would bring more prestige to the Tour," he said.


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## Marc (Jan 23, 2005)

PBL450 said:


> A "Pro Cycling, TDF" sub forum with people saying it's crazy to watch the best cyclists in the world *race bicycles*... The irony is just amazing.


Of the 3,000km or so TdF traveled this year...how much was racing and how much was group parade-wheelsucking? 10%? Perhaps 20%?


Grand Tours and TdF in particular tend to have a problem getting racers to actually race.


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## cda 455 (Aug 9, 2010)

Marc said:


> Of the 3,000km or so TdF traveled this year...how much was racing and how much was group parade-wheelsucking? 10%? Perhaps 20%?
> 
> 
> Grand Tours and TdF in particular tend to have a problem getting racers to actually race.


That problem has persisted since The Tour's inception.


With the exception of the yellow jersey; all of the different jerseys didn't come along until, I believe, after WWII.


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## Marc (Jan 23, 2005)

cda 455 said:


> That problem has persisted since The Tour's inception.
> 
> 
> With the exception of the yellow jersey; all of the different jerseys didn't come along until, I believe, after WWII.


Not really....near as I can tell, given the scattered state of journalism and people tracking it...it was fairly well a zany free-for-all. Most reminiscent of the modern Dirty Kanza....although early TdF cheating was rampant, and on occasion spectators who were fans of one rider would gang up and assault a rival LOL...

It wasn't until 1930 there were teams (not really as such, just riders grouped by nationalities and a national classification)...and it wasn't until 1960 that there were corporate teams (read teams actually unified in the modern sense of "teams"). Indeed the organizers were well adamant until the 1930s that the TdF was an individual effort raced individually.


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## nenesse (Jun 3, 2017)

Rashadabd said:


> I think what they are saying is, yes it was close, but it was still boring. Sky still controlled the whole way and won again....


lots if people are becoming 'blasés' about the tour over the years.

of course Sky controlled, they have the best team ever with lots of top rideras who would be patrons in a lot of other teams (landa....), their whole season is only targeted towards the tdf. 

it had been the case for the last 20 years And that is the price the tdf had to pay for its value : it pulls in More And more people & fervor on the sides of the Road to watch the etapes (look at the british stages for god sake), more sponsors, TV coverage, the cream of the cream teams And riders And at the end of the day pressure to win.

it Will be the same untel the next froomey, why would it change ?

this years was the first year where froome was seriously in a real Risk of losing the race, first from ag2r team who geared up but are just a level below and with bardet becoming a real Mc Coy and second from a lonesome cowboy (uran) 

aru, martin were never real contenders 

would froome have had a serious crash like last year, he would have lost it, same for bardet And uran.

everyday they all fought tooth and nails to gain seconds 

suspense was was real until the Izoard stages, what more do people want : Santa Claus winning ? Get real, guys 

And don't forget the by sides : the fight and dramas for the green jerseys, the attacks and coming of age of barguil, calmejane cramps 3k before the finish, the dog spirit of van avermaert attacking almost everyday.

and most importantly the riders are cooked, hopefully gone are the days of the sprinters climbing mountains like goats.

only thing Is I found the profiles of the stages a bit bland. Not enough mountain top stages and mountain stages although the Chambéry stage will stay in history.

what I see in bike forums is a herd spirit over the years, tdf is bland isn't it ? Yeah yeah meh, meh meh....


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## troutmd (Sep 7, 2007)

nenesse said:


> lots if people are becoming 'blasés' about the tour over the years.
> 
> of course Sky controlled, they have the best team ever with lots of top rideras who would be patrons in a lot of other teams (landa....), their whole season is only targeted towards the tdf.
> 
> ...


Even thought the overall strategy has become a bit scripted since Miguel Indurain's reign, no doubt the TdF remains terrific. However, this year as a case in point, a "race of truth" 50K time trial into Paris on the last stage would be of worthy consideration if the event wished to maximize drama up to the very end. I also agree the MTF at venues such as alpe d'huez add to the event, sans the "mother didn't pay enough attention to me" idiots along the road.

Many will disagree for exceptionally good reasons.


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## nenesse (Jun 3, 2017)

troutmd said:


> Even thought the overall strategy has become a bit scripted since Miguel Indurain's reign, no doubt the TdF remains terrific. However, this year as a case in point, a "race of truth" 50K time trial into Paris on the last stage would be of worthy consideration if the event wished to maximize drama up to the very end. I also agree the MTF at venues such as alpe d'huez add to the event, sans the "mother didn't pay enough attention to me" idiots along the road.
> 
> Many will disagree for exceptionally good reasons.


50 Kms TT : like in the good old days ? why not. But not the last day, I think it is a good idea that the last day remains a celebration parade.

an other option like 20 some years ago : two half stages in the same day, a 20 to 30 kms TT in the morning and a short but punchy stage in the pm.

Did you see the collapse of bardet today ? 1 sec ahead of Landa in the GC at the end of the day !!!! Who said it was boring ? BS


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## bike981 (Sep 14, 2010)

den bakker said:


> what really would that change? there has been 6 cases of the final winner not winning a stage. last one in 2006.
> Why putting down Lemonds win in 1990?


And make that 7 cases...


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## Neolithic (Mar 24, 2015)

As I (and many others and well before me) have said, get rid of the radios. Build plans beforehand and drop back to the team car on occasion but put the final decision making in the hands of those spinning. I can't think of any other sport with a constant stream of up-to-date, comprehensive information from coach to players. Part of the drama is making decisions while exhausted and with incomplete information.

To quote Mike Tyson, "Everyone has a plan until they get punched in the mouth."


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## bvber (Apr 23, 2011)

It may increase the popularity of this tour if Hollywood decides to make a movie about TdF starring Christian Bale. At least there is a perfect candidate for his stunt double.


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## Rashadabd (Sep 17, 2011)

Velonews has some concerns and some potential solutions as well:

Tour de meh: Three ways to make the TDF fun again | VeloNews.com


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## troutmd (Sep 7, 2007)

Eliminate the Race of Truth is a way to improve the TdF?

Gosh I must have missed the memo.


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## Rashadabd (Sep 17, 2011)

To cap or not to cap, that is the question:

Roundtable: How good was 2017 Tour? Should cycling cap budgets? | VeloNews.com


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## tlg (May 11, 2011)

Rashadabd said:


> To cap or not to cap, that is the question:


 I think there needs to be some limitations.
I was reading the other day, Sky's budget is 3x the size of Cannondale's


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## Rashadabd (Sep 17, 2011)

tlg said:


> I think there needs to be some limitations.
> I was reading the other day, Sky's budget is 3x the size of Cannondale's


At least 3X... It should be better this year with the new sponsor, but they have a lot more at their disposal than everyone else. I get what one of the commenters in the article is saying though, maybe the solution is more money in cycling and not less. Maybe the sport needs to realize that it can only go so far as its teams can carry it and figure out a way to help the other teams increase and stabilize their budgets without "penalizing" Sky. ASO and the UCI need to make their product more marketable by becoming heavier handed about doping and leverage their standing to help connect some these teams with bigger sponsors. It helps everyone. Why fight over scraps when you all could be eating steak if you work together?


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## tlg (May 11, 2011)

Rashadabd said:


> At least 3X... It should be better this year with the new sponsor, but they have a lot more at their disposal than everyone else.


Nope, 3x. Actually a little less. Cannondale is $15mil. Sky is $40mil.
Other teams might be more of a disparity. 




> I get what one of the commenters in the article is saying though, maybe the solution is more money in cycling and not less. Maybe the sport needs to realize that it can only go so far as its teams can carry it and figure out a way to help the other teams increase and stabilize their budgets without "penalizing" Sky.


That would be an option too. However it's done, there should be somewhat of a level playing field.


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## Rashadabd (Sep 17, 2011)

tlg said:


> Nope, 3x. Actually a little less. Cannondale is $15mil. Sky is $40mil.
> Other teams might be more of a disparity.
> 
> 
> That would be an option too. However it's done, there should be somewhat of a level playing field.


Got it, but there are probably some other "benefits" and "advantages" that don't go into that budget number that Sky has that other teams don't too. It might be use of facilities, free office space, better cars, buses, and equipment, etc. that all helps them recruit and keep better talent and, in turn, win more races.


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## LostViking (Jul 18, 2008)

Mapei said:


> I continue to love the Tour de France. And all the grand tours. They're like novels. They're like long-form TV series where recurring characters battle it out in each episode.
> 
> It's not the outcome that's so interesting. It's the process. The day-by-day struggle. It's watching young bucks make their presence felt, current stars doing their best to maintain their grip, and fading stars trying to prove they still matter.
> 
> ...


I'm convinced. At first I would have said that the Sky dominated Tour was just as boring as when HE Who Shall Not Be Named "won" seven Tours. But, after some reflection, I find I must agree with Mapei. A Tour is more than the headlines, who wins what - it's more about the drama of individual efforts and perserverance. In a Grand Tour, there are thousands of sub-plots - individual efforts - including those insane breakaways that always seem doomed to be caught a few kms before the flamme rouge - that deserve our attention as true fans of the sport. I will always love the Giro best, but all three GTs are grand spectacles which deserve more respect.


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## Rashadabd (Sep 17, 2011)

LostViking said:


> I'm convinced. At first I would have said that the Sky dominated Tour was just as boring as when HE Who Shall Not Be Named "won" seven Tours. But, after some reflection, I find I must agree with Mapei. A Tour is more than the headlines, who wins what - it's more about the drama of individual efforts and perserverance. In a Grand Tour, there are thousands of sub-plots - individual efforts - including those insane breakaways that always seem doomed to be caught a few kms before the flamme rouge - that deserve our attention as true fans of the sport. I will always love the Giro best, but all three GTs are grand spectacles which deserve more respect.


I can agree with most of what you two are saying, but I think what the rest of us are arguing is that this particular novel is far more interesting and gripping when the outcome at the end is in doubt. I guess we aren't the type of readers that want to know what the ending is when we're still in chapter three. Different folks for different strokes though....


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## troutmd (Sep 7, 2007)

Rashadabd said:


> I can agree with most of what you two are saying, but I think what the rest of us are arguing is that this particular novel is far more interesting and gripping when the outcome at the end is in doubt. I guess we aren't the type of readers that want to know what the ending is when we're still in chapter three. Different folks for different strokes though....


I'd also add there seems to be a certain sentiment amongst some posters here rewarding winning instead of strategy has merit.


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## Neolithic (Mar 24, 2015)

To piggy-back on the "Happily Ever After" nature of finding moments to enjoy the TdF, I would like to bring up an example that's come up in my house recently.

Beauty and the Beast. Specifically, by Disney. The new live-action version is almost a complete retelling of the previous animated version. It's reasonably well done from set design, costumes, and acting and the new songs fit well. It was not unejoyable, but in my opinion I feel it is a waste. Too much of too many scenes are too predictable.

Now, I must say I enjoyed this year's TdF more than last year. Bodnar's epic breakaway. Uran's single-speed stage win. <30s gap to Yellow within the final days.

But if you have smaller teams that must spread their efforts across the whole season up against Sky focusing on the TdF wheel sucking to an uninspiring GC win year after year there may eventually be insurmountable problems for the sport.

I'd like to hope they're keeping an eye on making small, incremental changes that can keep it feeling fresh but still comfortable with the history and tradition of le Tour.


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