# Look 585 or 595?



## mojo1000 (Mar 7, 2007)

Just wondering if the price difference for moving up to the 595 is worth it? Also wondering whether to use dura-ace or ultegra? A little background: I'm very active (play soccer 6 days a week, run, etc.), but cycling is a new thing for me. My husband and I are looking to start triathlons. So we wanted a bike that would be good for that as well is riding around the San Francisco bay area.

I worry a bit about reaching for the brake and shifters. I was on a cervelo soloist and it made my hands uncomfortable when braking. Would going with Dura-ace or Ultegra avoid this issue? or is it more of a handlebar thing? I've only been able to test ride a 51cm 585, it felt nice, more comfortable than the cervelo. But my size is really a 49cm, can't find those anywhere, but wondering if the hand issue would be lessened with the appropriate sized frame.

Any info would really be appreciated!


----------



## ilan (Nov 27, 2006)

mojo1000 said:


> Just wondering if the price difference for moving up to the 595 is worth it? Also wondering whether to use dura-ace or ultegra? A little background: I'm very active (play soccer 6 days a week, run, etc.), but cycling is a new thing for me. My husband and I are looking to start triathlons. So we wanted a bike that would be good for that as well is riding around the San Francisco bay area.
> 
> I worry a bit about reaching for the brake and shifters. I was on a cervelo soloist and it made my hands uncomfortable when braking. Would going with Dura-ace or Ultegra avoid this issue? or is it more of a handlebar thing? I've only been able to test ride a 51cm 585, it felt nice, more comfortable than the cervelo. But my size is really a 49cm, can't find those anywhere, but wondering if the hand issue would be lessened with the appropriate sized frame.
> 
> Any info would really be appreciated!


Since you're just starting out in cycling, there is actually little point getting these extremely high end bicycles. In fact, there is little point getting these high end bicycles for almost everyone who actually gets them... On the other hand, the people who get them usually have been riding for years and know exactly what kind of bicycle they want and usually extremely pleased with their final choice. 

Since you're starting out, that is not clear, so there is absolutely no point spending over 5000 dollars for an exceptional bicycle that may not even be suited for you and which you won't enjoy. It would be best to start off with lower end models, which, by the way, are fairly comparable to the top end models. It is very difficult to find a bad road bike these days, independent of price. The most important criterion, by far, is bike fit and that includes getting the right size stem. If you were having problems with reaching the brakes on the Cervelo, it probably had nothing to do with the bike, just the stem length. If you are new to cycling, then you will probably have to adapt to the stretched out position that is required for these all out racing bikes (the bikes you are looking at are all currently used by professionals). In particular, you have to develop muscles in the lower back in order to lean forward correctly, which will allow you to support yourself with your lower back and not your hands and arms. That process takes quite a while. In the meantime, you might want to look into bicycles that are designed for people who want a more upright position, which is the case of many of the lower priced choices. There is no point getting a professional racing bike if you are going to set it up with a touring position. To actually answer one of your questions, the Look 595 is probably one of the worst choices for you because you need to have a fairly good idea of your ideal saddle height before getting it, due to having to cut the integrated seatpost, whereas this is not the case with you, as a beginner. 

The same principles hold for your components. Ultegra this year was Dura-Ace 2 years ago, so it is very good. In fact, the lower end 105 is almost as good. I bought my bike 10 years ago with Dura-Ace Ultegra 105 mix and the 105 parts (brakes and headset) are working perfectly after all those years and many miles. Dura-Ace will give you better shifting after 20,000 miles, but that implies that you will need to ride that much to really appreciate the difference. 

After a year or 10,000 km of riding, you will have a much more accurate idea of your riding style and needs, and you will be able to choose the perfect pro bike and use the other one as a spare. Oh, and most coaches say that the extra cash would be better spent by keeping the lower end bike and instead buying a power meter... 

If you are riding in the Bay Area, then you should take advantage of the many climbs. In order to do this, you will need appropriately low gearing. I suggest you get compact cranks (50-34) and cassette cogs of 12-25 or 12-27. 

Also, since you are going to do triathlons, make sure you get handlebars that will have enough space to fit aero bars. 

I think what I wrote is fairly sensible and I would not be surprised if sales people at bike shops told you the same thing, but I would be a bit wary if they didn't. There are many extremely good bike shops in the Bay Area, so I would advise you to be careful if a shop didn't actually state some of these things, and instead go to one of the many outstanding ones. 

-ilan


----------



## mojo1000 (Mar 7, 2007)

*Thanks for your feedback!*

I think you could be right that my lower back isn't as flexible as it should be. I'm 6 months pregnant right now so it may have impeded my hands reaching the bars at an appropriate length - although I really don't look 6 months pregnant, just a bit of a paunch. But saying that, I'm not the most flexible person anyway and am working on that.

The 585 was priced out with ultegra at my bike shop for $4,000. I tried a Giant TCR zero with ultegra and could definately tell a difference in the ride ($2,500). Giant didn't feel as steady, if that's a term that makes sense. I know most people don't jump right in, but I guess I just don't want to be wishing I had spent the extra for the bike that felt good to me right off the bat. And I'm sure you could say that in a few months with a Look I might be wishing for something else.

As for the seatpost issue: Does the seatpost require a lot of fiddling with once you have been professionally fitted? I know the 595 has some spacers you can add to it to alter it a couple of cm's, but I'm worried, like you've mentioned, that I will need to be tweaking it a ton.

Your points about ultegra being plenty good are well taken. I have read that the jump from 105's to ultegra is large, whereas from ultegra to dura-ace is less noticable. I only considered the dura-ace as to not have to upgrade later. But at this point I'm just going with ultegra (or a similar brand/level that is comfortable).

I've been to a bunch of bike shops in the bay area and most showed me the giants or similar brands off the bat, but having had test rides on them I ruled a lot out. Scott felt really hard, as did cervelo soloist. Although the cervelo took off! 

As far as power meters, I was definately considering one of those. I saw that there is only one that is compatible with mac's. Is that right, and if so, do you download the info onto the computer a lot or is it more of a just look during the ride and at the end to see how you did? Are some meters only compatible with shimano, campy or SRAM?


----------



## ilan (Nov 27, 2006)

mojo1000 said:


> I think you could be right that my lower back isn't as flexible as it should be. I'm 6 months pregnant right now so it may have impeded my hands reaching the bars at an appropriate length - although I really don't look 6 months pregnant, just a bit of a paunch. But saying that, I'm not the most flexible person anyway and am working on that.
> 
> The 585 was priced out with ultegra at my bike shop for $4,000. I tried a Giant TCR zero with ultegra and could definately tell a difference in the ride ($2,500). Giant didn't feel as steady, if that's a term that makes sense. I know most people don't jump right in, but I guess I just don't want to be wishing I had spent the extra for the bike that felt good to me right off the bat. And I'm sure you could say that in a few months with a Look I might be wishing for something else.
> 
> ...


Congratulations! Well, I don't know if getting into cycling when pregnant is the best time, though I do know that pregnancy improves performance in early stages (would you believe that East Germany tried to use this for their athletes in the Olympics?). 

Anyway, it seems that you would prefer a bike whose ride is not very harsh. I believe that the Look 585 is quite good in this respect, as you point out. $4000 is a good price. You can also consider titanium frames like Merlin, which also have very smooth rides, though they will probably be more expensive. 

As I said before, the racing position is not just a question of flexibility, but of developing strength in the lower back, so you will need a bit of time to develop your position. However, your body type, that is, whether you have short legs compared to the upper body is a good indicator of what position you will be able to obtain. The bike shop will be able to tell you if the frame is in the right ball park. Remember that you should insist on changing the stem if another length will fit you better. You can get another stem later if you are adapting to the more stretched out position. Also, you should cut the fork fairly high at first and put spac 
A professional fitting now may not be valid once you have a lot of miles, so you will probably want to get another one after about 10,000km. The fitting will depend on numerous factors, such as choice of saddle, pedals, and shoes, and of pedaling style, all of which can change. Since the process is a little more involved on the 595, it is not a good idea to get it as a first bike, in particular, every saddle adjustment must be made in increments of about 2mm, so if you are going to make large changes, e.g., 2 cm then continually dealing with 2mm spacers is inefficient, as opposed to simply marking up a seatpost and sliding it up or down a little. 

Ultegra is just fine as you state. Shimano 105 is also just fine, except everyone agrees that their chainrings are ugly. 

If you are planning on doing triathlons then a power meter is an even more important choice, because it helps you figure out your pace in a time trial. You definitely need to download the data to your computer to understand what is going on. I believe the best models, SRM, PowerTap, and Ergomo, are all compatible with all the current drive trains. There is actually a lot written on power meters online, which is where I got my information. Getting one now is a good idea, as you will be able to track your progression from the very start. Since you are training with your husband, I might suggest the PowerTap, as it is easiest to switch between bikes, and so you can share your equipment. 

Good luck!

-ilan


----------



## mojo1000 (Mar 7, 2007)

*Thanks!*



ilan said:


> Congratulations! Well, I don't know if getting into cycling when pregnant is the best time, though I do know that pregnancy improves performance in early stages (would you believe that East Germany tried to use this for their athletes in the Olympics?).
> 
> Anyway, it seems that you would prefer a bike whose ride is not very harsh. I believe that the Look 585 is quite good in this respect, as you point out. $4000 is a good price. You can also consider titanium frames like Merlin, which also have very smooth rides, though they will probably be more expensive.
> 
> ...


I can't believe that about the East Germans! I would think the morning sickness would make things worse, but maybe it calms you. Pretty crazy. I'm actually just mainly going to use it on a trainer until after the baby is here. Might go on some quiet road trails if I feel comfortable every once in awhile right now. I've decided to go with the Look 585 and am getting a pretty good deal since we shopped around quite a bit. We took all my measurements and the 49 is what the shops keep coming up with. 

Anyway, thanks for all of your help and advice! We are definately looking into the powertap now.


----------



## ilan (Nov 27, 2006)

mojo1000 said:


> I can't believe that about the East Germans! I would think the morning sickness would make things worse, but maybe it calms you. Pretty crazy. I'm actually just mainly going to use it on a trainer until after the baby is here. Might go on some quiet road trails if I feel comfortable every once in awhile right now. I've decided to go with the Look 585 and am getting a pretty good deal since we shopped around quite a bit. We took all my measurements and the 49 is what the shops keep coming up with.
> 
> Anyway, thanks for all of your help and advice! We are definately looking into the powertap now.


OK, great! By the way, I was at the prologue of Paris-Nice this afternoon and I observed at least one Credit Agricole rider using a 585 for that time trial. The conclusion is that the 585 is also a good time trial bike.

Here is a good article about power monitors which addresses some of your questions: http://www.competitivecyclist.com/pdf/power_v1.pdf

-ilan


----------



## Dick Rhee (Jun 15, 2005)

I agree with Ilan, a Ti bike would be more suitable in terms of comfort. That being said,

Why not buy a more mid level bike (such as the Look 555, Cannondale, etc) and ride it for a season? Log a couple of thousand miles to get used to riding on the road and then decide what you did and did not like about the bike, sell it used on Craigslist (the resale value of road bikes is pretty decent) and THEN start thinking about these higher end bicycles.

Sure, upgrading later may be a pain but buyer's remorse for a $6500 bike that you don't even like is probably a lot worse.


----------

