# MTBer, here...



## kragu (Aug 16, 2015)

Looking for a bike suitable for occasional road rides, commuting, and that plays nice with a trainer/rollers for those days that I don't quite have enough time for my trail bike. 

I'm unlikely, at this point, to use this bike for anything more than that, so I'm trying to keep costs down. Definitely open to a used bike, but really have no clue what models to even search for, or how quickly standards change on the road side of things. I'd prefer not to drop below the road equivalents of SLX or X9. That's 105/Rival territory as I understand it...

Thanks for any help you can provide!


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## tednugent (Apr 26, 2010)

On a new bike that's probably around $1500....

to keep costs down, there's nothing wrong with a Tiagra 4600. It's still a 10-speed, which gives you plenty of options for gearing. It won't shift as smooth as a 105, but never had issues with it on my cross bike.


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## jfaas (Jan 31, 2014)

Also the Tiagra 4700 is coming out next year. back in 2000, the Tiagra group was not all that wonderful, it has made big improvements and should work very well for what you want to do with it. If you are going used, you can probably find ultegra or 105 for reasonable cost. The fit on the bike will be most important, far more important than on a mountain bike because you tend to stay in one position for a long time.


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## PJ352 (Dec 5, 2007)

As was alluded to, even for casual/ trainer use, fit on a road bike is important, so take steps to make sure sizing (then fit) are right for you.

As to components, I agree with the above that Tiagra will do you fine. I've test ridden the 4600 iteration and it's as good as my 5600 105 groupset. 

Even the current Sora is perfectly acceptable, so (depending on your budget) you may be able to go new and get some LBS services and warranty.


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## Chader09 (Jun 10, 2014)

Just a couple of options:
Specialized Bicycle Components

CrossRip Comp - Trek Bicycle

Specialized Bicycle Components

CrossRip Elite - Trek Bicycle

You can also consider the Specialized Tricross. It is the older model that was replaced by the Diverge. But some shops may still have one (we have several). A solid bike for multi-use.

Check the sizing on the Trek Crossrip. It seems to run large (i.e. a person who rides a 56 normally will probably need a 54).


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## joeinchi (Sep 24, 2010)

Have you considered purchasing a slick tire to use with your mtb on a trainer? Get a pair (or second wheelset), lock out your suspension and you could definitely use your mtb for getting around town, as welll.

Just a thought.


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## kragu (Aug 16, 2015)

Thanks everyone. 

So fit is important...got it. Any tips for figuring this out without show-rooming my LBS? Even getting on a bike, I don't know what to look for - riding position is so vastly different from MTB, every road bike I've been on feels foreign to me. I know Comp Cyclist has a fit calculator...



joeinchi said:


> Have you considered purchasing a slick tire to use with your mtb on a trainer? Get a pair (or second wheelset), lock out your suspension and you could definitely use your mtb for getting around town, as welll.
> 
> Just a thought.
> 
> View attachment 308390


Definitely thought about that, but the cost of a new wheel, 11 speed cassette, and tire would put me a little too close to the cost of a decent used bike. Switching out a tire without buying anything else would be a pain, IMO.


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## PJ352 (Dec 5, 2007)

kragu said:


> Thanks everyone.
> 
> So fit is important...got it. Any tips for figuring this out without show-rooming my LBS? Even getting on a bike, I don't know what to look for - riding position is so vastly different from MTB, every road bike I've been on feels foreign to me. I know Comp Cyclist has a fit calculator...


My opinions....

Kudos to you for not wanting to showroom your LBS, but if you're straight with them on your intentions - hopefully to be a future customer - they may size you to a bike and from there you'll have a ballpark idea of what to look for. 

_Not_ frame size, but the geo _numbers_ of the test bike - primarily effective top tubes (reach). You'll still need to be fitted to a bike, so there's where the future customer comes in.

And if you have to pay ~$50 for a standard fitting, consider it an investment in your cycling future.

This (IMO) is a far better method than using a fit calculator that (at best) will get you in the ballpark, but more likely confuse you further.


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## joeinchi (Sep 24, 2010)

Good advice ^^^

Here are some of the challenges. On sizing, you'll have a range to choose from:










And in terms of finding the right top tube, your flexibility/posture has an impact, as well.


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## kragu (Aug 16, 2015)

PJ352 said:


> My opinions....
> 
> Kudos to you for not wanting to showroom your LBS, but if you're straight with them on your intentions - hopefully to be a future customer - they may size you to a bike and from there you'll have a ballpark idea of what to look for.
> 
> ...


Tad bit confused, so let me clarify my understanding...

There's frame size, and geo numbers. It's possible to be on the "right" frame size, given something like joeinchi's chart below (thanks Joe!), but if the geo numbers aren't right, it might not actually fit. Is that what you're saying?

I'm just a hair under 5'10". If I find a good deal on a 52-53cm bike, is a $50 LBS fitting likely to help make that bike work? Or is the purpose of a fitting in order to determine sizing from the get-go? How much can you compensate for via tweaking saddle position (height, fore/aft)? Does stem length and bar width play as much of a role as it does in MTB? My new mtb's TT is almost two inches longer than my last (a somewhat progressive thing for those unfamiliar), and I'm able to make up for the longer reach by using a 35mm stem, which is 15mm shorter than my previous bike.

Also, how low can one go on the groups hierarchy before it becomes a waste of money? If Tiagra is ok, is it safe to say Apex is all right, too? Stay away from Sora/Claris? I'm no component snob... my X7 on one bike works every bit as good as my X01 on another, but things get a little rough for me when it gets down to Alivio/X5.


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## PJ352 (Dec 5, 2007)

Your questions are good ones, so entail involved responses, so I'll break this into segments. 



kragu said:


> Tad bit confused, so let me clarify my understanding...
> 
> There's frame size, and geo numbers. It's possible to be on the "right" frame size, given something like joeinchi's chart below (thanks Joe!), but if the geo numbers aren't right, it might not actually fit. Is that what you're saying?


There are no industry standards for determining frame size, so you can have two (or more) frames of the same size, but with different geo numbers. If the frame size fits you, it's because the geo numbers are right for you. If the bike doesn't fit, the geo numbers are wrong for you, no matter the frame size.

FWIW, Joe's chart doesn't meet my sizing requirements. All charts are general guides, not meant to be followed verbatim.



kragu said:


> I'm just a hair under 5'10". If I find a good deal on a 52-53cm bike, is a $50 LBS fitting likely to help make that bike work? Or is the purpose of a fitting in order to determine sizing from the get-go? How much can you compensate for via tweaking saddle position (height, fore/aft)? Does stem length and bar width play as much of a role as it does in MTB? My new mtb's TT is almost two inches longer than my last (a somewhat progressive thing for those unfamiliar), and I'm able to make up for the longer reach by using a 35mm stem, which is 15mm shorter than my previous bike.


Sizing comes first, then a fitting. If sizing is right it'll make the fitters job much easier because all you'll need is tweaks to fit.

Conversely, if sizing is off, the amount it's off will dictate how the fitting will go. Saddle position is set first, so using it to compensate for other deficiencies (namely reach) means an unnecessary compromise that'll result in a less than optimal fit. 

Same goes for proportionally short or long stems. Keep in mind that f/r weight distribution is important on road bikes, so maintaining the proper rider position is important. 



kragu said:


> Also, how low can one go on the groups hierarchy before it becomes a waste of money? If Tiagra is ok, is it safe to say Apex is all right, too? Stay away from Sora/Claris? I'm no component snob... my X7 on one bike works every bit as good as my X01 on another, but things get a little rough for me when it gets down to Alivio/X5.


Because shifting methods differ between Shimano and SRAM, I think comparing Apex to Tiagra is apples to oranges, but to answer your question, I think people fret too much over this. 

For recreational riding, I think anything from Sora and above will serve most well. More importantly is how the groupset is installed and tuned. And gearing should match a riders terrain and fitness.


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## ziscwg (Apr 19, 2010)

PJ352 said:


> Your questions are good ones, so entail involved responses, so I'll break this into segments.
> 
> 
> There are no industry standards for determining frame size, so you can have two (or more) frames of the same size, but with different geo numbers. If the frame size fits you, it's because the geo numbers are right for you. If the bike doesn't fit, the geo numbers are wrong for you, no matter the frame size.
> ...


One bonus of the Apex group is that it comes std with WiFli. So, an 11-32 is available if you wish to put one on.


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## tednugent (Apr 26, 2010)

ziscwg said:


> One bonus of the Apex group is that it comes std with WiFli. So, an 11-32 is available if you wish to put one on.


No it's not. Apex has both 28T cage and 32T varieties, ever since it was introduced


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## kragu (Aug 16, 2015)

Thanks, everyone, PJ in particular.

I had a chance to ride two bikes on my way home from work today. Sat on a 56cm Secteur and felt a tiny bit stretched out. Sat on a 54cm Secteur and felt a bit cramped. Forced to choose, I think the 56 was the ticket, though I'll certainly be testing more. The geo felt good, more relaxed than the Trek I took out on my first road ride this summer (a 60mi, 5500ft jaunt around West Maui, dragged for 4 hours by a 65 y/o Ironman champion). 

After fiddling around with a Claris drivetrain and a Tiagra, the difference is staggering. I wouldn't dare go any lower than Tiagra. 105 felt really good, too.


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## PJ352 (Dec 5, 2007)

kragu said:


> Thanks, everyone, PJ in particular.
> 
> I had a chance to ride two bikes on my way home from work today. Sat on a 56cm Secteur and felt a tiny bit stretched out. Sat on a 54cm Secteur and felt a bit cramped. Forced to choose, I think the 56 was the ticket, though I'll certainly be testing more. The geo felt good, more relaxed than the Trek I took out on my first road ride this summer (a 60mi, 5500ft jaunt around West Maui, dragged for 4 hours by a 65 y/o Ironman champion).
> 
> After fiddling around with a Claris drivetrain and a Tiagra, the difference is staggering. I wouldn't dare go any lower than Tiagra. 105 felt really good, too.


As you mentioned in an earlier post, every road bike you've been on felt foreign to you. Not surprising given your MTN biking background.

From what you've offered, I'd recommend you go back to the Spec dealer and take the 56CM Secteur out (on the roads) for a test ride. It's better to feel a bit stretched out than cramped, and as you acclimate to road riding odds are it'll feel more natural. Just takes some time. 

And remember, you can always have a slightly shorter stem installed at the initial fitting. You can always go longer as your fit evolves.

Re: the groupsets, the current Tiagra is a very good groupset. I think it offers a good balance of price/ performance and durability.


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## kragu (Aug 16, 2015)

PJ352 said:


> As you mentioned in an earlier post, every road bike you've been on felt foreign to you. Not surprising given your MTN biking background.
> 
> From what you've offered, I'd recommend you go back to the Spec dealer and take the 56CM Secteur out (on the roads) for a test ride. It's better to feel a bit stretched out than cramped, and as you acclimate to road riding odds are it'll feel more natural. Just takes some time.
> 
> ...


Oh for sure. I've never really liked MTB demos - so many variables makes it hard to determine how much of your experience is due to the bike, the trails, what you ate the night before, current fitness level, etc. It seems that there are fewer variables to worry about, at least at my level. I'll be seeking out demo days for sure.


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## PJ352 (Dec 5, 2007)

kragu said:


> Oh for sure. I've never really liked MTB demos - so many variables makes it hard to determine how much of your experience is due to the bike, the trails, what you ate the night before, current fitness level, etc. It seems that there are fewer variables to worry about, at least at my level. I'll be seeking out demo days for sure.


You're right. There are a number of variables that make test riding bikes (then picking one) quite confusing. 

At some point, you may *know*, or you'll just have to go with what feels right to you at the time.

But you have the right idea... ride a bunch, then whittle the field from there.

Keep us posted on your progress.


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## ziscwg (Apr 19, 2010)

ziscwg said:


> One bonus of the Apex group is that it comes std with WiFli. So, an 11-32 is available if you wish to put one on.





tednugent said:


> No it's not. Apex has both 28T cage and 32T varieties, ever since it was introduced


Well, then I should not believe the market hype by SRAM. The std RD is avail, but they push that WiFli drug on those poor, unsuspecting n00bs


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## kragu (Aug 16, 2015)

Not super concerned with having such a low gear. I'm reasonably fit, usually 75th percentile or so on any given MTB climb.


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## kragu (Aug 16, 2015)

A couple of good deals in my area right now...

2010 Fuji Roubaix, alu, Tiagra/105 $650
2010 Scott CR1 Elite, full carbon, Rival, Reynolds Solitude $800

Any thoughts?


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## jfaas (Jan 31, 2014)

If they fit you correctly, they both should be great rides. Are they used?


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## PJ352 (Dec 5, 2007)

kragu said:


> A couple of good deals in my area right now...
> 
> 2010 Fuji Roubaix, alu, Tiagra/105 $650
> 2010 Scott CR1 Elite, full carbon, Rival, Reynolds Solitude $800
> ...


I would recommend against buying used carbon (no warranty, chance of hidden damage) and IIRC Solitudes don't get great reviews. 

The Fuji may look a bit more mundane on paper, but is a better than fine choice for a first bike... and (assuming very good or better condition) will save you some coin. 

Note, however, according to bicycle blue book the bike is overpriced, but may be worth a look. 

2010 Fuji Roubaix 2.0 - New and Used Bike Value 

Just make sure sizing is right, and bring any used bike of interest to your LBS for assessment.


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## kragu (Aug 16, 2015)

Yeah, both used. One brand better than the other?

Edit: The Fuji is actually $500 with full 105. Hard to keep straight all the bikes I've been looking at. 

Don't know about fit yet. Only have so much time and have to be selective about how many places I go to try things out.


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## PJ352 (Dec 5, 2007)

kragu said:


> Yeah, both used. One brand better than the other?
> 
> Edit: The Fuji is actually $500 with full 105. Hard to keep straight all the bikes I've been looking at.
> 
> Don't know about fit yet. Only have so much time and have to be selective about how many places I go to try things out.


I'd give the nod to Fuji on brand. JMO, but Scott's into a lot of sporting equipment, so isn't so focused on cycling. 

At $500, the Fuji is still a bit overpriced, but used bike prices vary by region. I think there's room to negotiate. 

BUT.. _it has to fit _to be worth most any price paid.


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## kragu (Aug 16, 2015)

PJ352 said:


> I'd give the nod to Fuji on brand. JMO, but Scott's into a lot of sporting equipment, so isn't so focused on cycling.
> 
> At $500, the Fuji is still a bit overpriced, but used bike prices vary by region. I think there's room to negotiate.
> 
> BUT.. _it has to fit _to be worth most any price paid.


Funny, Scott is making some absolutely killer mountain bikes these days. Wondered how their road division is doing. 

Thanks again.


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## PJ352 (Dec 5, 2007)

kragu said:


> Funny, Scott is making some absolutely killer mountain bikes these days. Wondered how their road division is doing.
> 
> Thanks again.


Two points:

1) Admittedly, I'm a dedicated roadie, so have zero interest in MTN bikes/ biking.

2) JMO. But there have been reports of Scott weaseling out of warranty claims. As always, there are at least two sides to every story.


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## ColaJacket (Apr 13, 2015)

kragu said:


> Thanks, everyone, PJ in particular.
> 
> I had a chance to ride two bikes on my way home from work today. Sat on a 56cm Secteur and felt a tiny bit stretched out. Sat on a 54cm Secteur and felt a bit cramped. Forced to choose, I think the 56 was the ticket, though I'll certainly be testing more. The geo felt good, more relaxed than the Trek I took out on my first road ride this summer (a 60mi, 5500ft jaunt around West Maui, dragged for 4 hours by a 65 y/o Ironman champion).
> 
> After fiddling around with a Claris drivetrain and a Tiagra, the difference is staggering. I wouldn't dare go any lower than Tiagra. 105 felt really good, too.


Yes, road test several different brands. It sounds like you're between sizes on the Secteurs. Also, the Secteurs are the endurance geometry for Specialized. You might want to try the Allez, as it is a little more aggressive. 

In addition to the Specialized and Trek, try some of the other major brands (e.g. Giant, Cannondale, Felt, Fuji, Jamis, Raleigh, etc.). Each one has a slightly different geometry, so each one may feel slightly different. The idea is that if you try enough bikes, one will really speak to you more than the others. At worst, you'll have different levels of bikes that fit you, and you go back to the top group, and buy the one that you like the best or has the best bang for the buck. 

GH


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## kragu (Aug 16, 2015)

So after riding a Secteur, Roubaix, Allez, Defy, TCR, Madone, Domane, Synapse, CAAD 8, Fenix, Fuji Roubaix, and Sportif, I went for the 2010 Fuji Roubaix 1.0. Went to see it in person today and it was so clean. Couple of nicks on the frame, but other than that it was hard to walk away from at $450. There were better bikes that I rode, for sure, but at that price, and for my purposes, I think it was the right choice. 

Really happy with the purchase. Thanks, all, for your help!


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## kragu (Aug 16, 2015)

Currently the bike has some aging Thick Slick tires on. I know nothing about road tires - can anyone suggest a tire that's going to work well on road and a set of rollers/trainer?


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## PJ352 (Dec 5, 2007)

kragu said:


> So after riding a Secteur, Roubaix, Allez, Defy, TCR, Madone, Domane, Synapse, CAAD 8, Fenix, Fuji Roubaix, and Sportif, I went for the 2010 Fuji Roubaix 1.0. Went to see it in person today and it was so clean. Couple of nicks on the frame, but other than that it was hard to walk away from at $450. There were better bikes that I rode, for sure, but at that price, and for my purposes, I think it was the right choice.
> 
> Really happy with the purchase. Thanks, all, for your help!


That's the way to do it. Ride a bunch and pick the one that fits and feels the best, within budget. 

That's an excellent price for 2010 Roubaix 1.0 in anything better than good condition. 

Congrats!


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## PJ352 (Dec 5, 2007)

kragu said:


> Currently the bike has some aging Thick Slick tires on. I know nothing about road tires - can anyone suggest a tire that's going to work well on road and a set of rollers/trainer?


Most any slick (or minimal tread) tire will work on a trainer, albeit, with increased wear.

I wouldn't spend money to replace what's installed now. When it shows wear, replace it with something moderately priced. Ironically, the harder rubber compounds tend to last a bit longer, but have less grip on the road. 

If you find that you're on the trainer one day, road the next, one option would be to pick up a cheap rear wheel and tire (or use the Thick Slick) and use that for trainer use.


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