# Clean drivetrain how often?



## Ping279 (Apr 11, 2012)

I have been coming to wonder if I have been a little too careful with my bike and have been cleaning it too often. I normally will clean and re lube the chain/gears/cassette every 3 ish rides which comes out to 100 miles or so. Every other time I clean it I will actually take the chain off and clean it separately to make sure I get all the grease out. Is that too often? I don't ride in wet conditions normally, with the exception of some wet roads from morning sprinklers. How often should I be cleaning the bike? I don't want to go overkill and waste degreaser and lube that I don't need to be using.


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## Daren (Jul 25, 2008)

Definitely right after a rain ride
Just before a race or big organized ride
When the chain no longer looks silver


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## JimP (Dec 18, 2001)

A drop of lube on each link of the chain every 100 miles makes my chain and cassette last a lot longer. If I have ridden in the rain I will clean and relube the bike no mater what the mileage is.


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## pmf (Feb 23, 2004)

New bike? Kinda like new car syndrome where you wax it every weekend, at least in the beginning ...

What you're doing sure can't hurt, but probably isn't necessary. I definitely wash my bike after getting caught in the rain. Mostly to get the goop off the braking surfaces of the wheels and brake pads. When the chain starts looking a little gummed up I'll clean it -- maybe every 300 miles. But hey, if you've got nothing else to do, it's cheap entertainment and you'll have the cleanest bike on the road.


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## brucew (Jun 3, 2006)

Part of it is what sort of conditions you ride in and what sort of lube you use. Some lubes are messier than others, and some lubes last longer before needing re-application.

That said, I wipe down and re-lube the chain every hundred miles or so in the wet and go twice or three times that long in the dry. I'll pull the chain and cassette twice a year, and pull the crankset every spring. Each of the four bikes get about 1,500 miles a year, or about two years on a chain, four years on a cassette and six years on an aluminum 39t ring.

I don't baby my bikes. They all commute, and none of them mind the rain, snow or salt. I don't obsess over the drivetrain since I discovered that, given my riding conditions, things last about as long whether I obsess over them or not.


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## ph0enix (Aug 12, 2009)

Every 200-300 miles for me usually. I would probably clean it more if I had the time but given the choice between cleaning and riding, I'd rather ride.


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## easyridernyc (Jan 10, 2008)

good question 

also depends sometimes, i think, on the quality of the lube. i used to be on the chain and cassette every hundred miles or so, that maintenance regime lasted a good ten thousand miles without any problems or undue wear. probably a lot more than needed. now i wait for the chain to lose lubrication, if its dry i take the time to clean up the chain cassette and rings and lube it all well, about every 6, 7 hundred miles now i think, no worries


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## Ping279 (Apr 11, 2012)

Thanks everyone for the input. Pmf, yes it is a pretty new bike. I got it about 2 months ago but cleaned the old one much the same way. As I said before for type of riding, the only wet conditions, for the most part, I ever encounter are short lengths of wet road from sprinklers. I don't think that's enough to have much affect.

Some of you mentioned type of lube... I have only ever used one kind but have been thinking about trying something else out. I have always bought the white lightning "clean ride". It seems to get black fairly quick and didn't know if there was something better out there that I should be using. I tried looking into finding out what kind of lube the manufacturers use on chains when you first buy the bike (sticky gel like lube). That stuff was awesome but haven't been able to find an easy way to apply or locate it. Does anyone have another suggestions for lube?


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## Jay Strongbow (May 8, 2010)

It's never too often for a wipe down with lube but using a degreaser like you do it way to often. the key to a well lubed chain is that the lube works its way into the chain. If you're always degreasing your probably not giving the lube a chance to really settle in to the chain and doing more harm than good.
If you must clean so often use lube that's also a cleaner (like pro link) and skip the degreaser.


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## trip221 (Oct 22, 2003)

I lube the chain and wipe it down about every two weeks. Only do the full drivetrain disassemble and clean once per year. If I go any longer between lubing the chain gets noisy.


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## Oxtox (Aug 16, 2006)

you're totally overdoing it...relax.

since you not riding in slop (rain, mud) conditions, just wipe the chain with an old t-shirt every few rides and relube every 200-300 miles.

forget all that degreasing nonsense.


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## Kerry Irons (Feb 25, 2002)

*Overkill*



Ping279 said:


> I have been coming to wonder if I have been a little too careful with my bike and have been cleaning it too often. I normally will clean and re lube the chain/gears/cassette every 3 ish rides which comes out to 100 miles or so. Every other time I clean it I will actually take the chain off and clean it separately to make sure I get all the grease out. Is that too often? I don't ride in wet conditions normally, with the exception of some wet roads from morning sprinklers. How often should I be cleaning the bike? I don't want to go overkill and waste degreaser and lube that I don't need to be using.


As others have noted it does depend on your riding conditions, but generally what you describe is overkill for the purposes of having a long lasting and smooth shifting drive train.

Assuming we're talking road riding, use the following technique for successful ProLink or homebrew lube (1 part motor oil to 3-4 parts odorless mineral spirits) application and use:

1 - wipe the chain, cogs, pulleys, and chain rings clean with a rag. If there is gunk on the cogs, floss between them with a rag wet with OMS. 
2 – shift to the big ring and the smallest cog and drip on lube while pedaling slowly so that the chain just starts to drip lube. Aim the lube between the side plates and between the bushings and the side plates. 
3 - keep pedaling the cranks for a minute or so to loosen all the dirt on the chain and to get full penetration of the lube. 
4 - thoroughly wipe the chain, cogs, pulleys, and chain rings clean with a rag. 
5 - repeat steps 2-4 if the chain was really dirty 

Do this AFTER a ride, as you want to allow time for the solvent to evaporate before you head out on the road. If you do this every 300 miles or so (or when you get caught in the rain or other dirty conditions), you will not get any significant gunky buildup, and you won't have to remove the chain or the cassette to clean it. This leaves lube on the inside parts, and wipes it off the outside parts, minimizing dirt pickup.

No lube is "perfect." A bright shiny chain that is clean to the touch but is well lubed and gives long mileage is still not possible. IMO, ProLink is the best compromise among commercial lubes. Other people have different opinions.


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## Ping279 (Apr 11, 2012)

Thanks for everyone's input. Looks like I'm probably over doing the cleaning. I have been cleaning the chain once I notice that the lube has turned black when running my fingers over it, which takes about 100 miles. I went on a ride today and it just happened to be a wet ride so I did clean and lube it after that. I will let it go for 200 miles or so and see how it goes. If it starts getting squeaky I'll just add some lube.

As for other kinds of lube... maybe I will try the prolink after my current bottle runs out. That will still be a while since it's half full.


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## JimP (Dec 18, 2001)

Today I will clean and relube the chain after only 47 miles. It was dry today but we rode over 1.5 miles of caliche (dirt & gravel). Even though the chain was clean and lubed with Prolink at the start, the dust from the caliche will act like grinding compound on the links so it is best to relube and flush as much dirt as possible from the chain.


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## willieboy (Nov 27, 2010)

I wipe down my chain after every ride and also floss my cassette. Takes all of ten minutes. Apply lube every 100 miles or so. I like my stuff clean and quiet. I have always believed in taking care on my drivetrain. I think it extends the life of the parts for sure.


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## AndreyT (Dec 1, 2011)

Daren said:


> When the chain no longer looks silver


That's probably supposed to be a tongue-in-cheek comment. 

A freshly cleaned and lubed chain that looks silver at the start will become black in about 30-60 minutes into the ride. Black is the normal color of the chain. Black color of the chain is not an indication of it being dirty. Black is the color that the chain lubricant acquires when it combines with the contaminants produced by the interacting metal parts of the chain. The lubricant is purposely designed to operate in such conditions.

If your chain doesn't turn black during the first ride, it means that someone simply forgot to lube it. Stop riding and lube it immediately.

It is not possible to determine whether the chain is clean or dirty by the color of it, since it will always have the same black color. The best indication of the chain becoming exceedingly dirty is the accumulation of compact pieces of dirt+lube mixture on the various gears in the drive train: cogs, chainrings and the derailleur pulleys. For some unexplainable reason, derailleur pulleys specifically work as a very good place to check for dirt accumulation.


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## JohnHenry (Aug 9, 2006)

willieboy said:


> I wipe down my chain after every ride and also floss my cassette. Takes all of ten minutes. Apply lube every 100 miles or so. I like my stuff clean and quiet. I have always believed in taking care on my drivetrain. I think it extends the life of the parts for sure.


This. Though i might apply alittle lube earlier.


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## D. W. Davis (Feb 21, 2007)

I have the luxury of totally avoiding wet roads.

I do a quick wet lube of the chain (not link-by-link) about every 150 miles and then wipe it down with a clean rag. After every ride, I do an easy wipe down of the tires and the chain with a wet paper towel and a little dishwashing detergent. 

I am a lazy person, but this has served me well.


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## Ping279 (Apr 11, 2012)

AndreyT said:


> That's probably supposed to be a tongue-in-cheek comment.
> 
> A freshly cleaned and lubed chain that looks silver at the start will become black in about 30-60 minutes into the ride. Black is the normal color of the chain. Black color of the chain is not an indication of it being dirty. Black is the color that the chain lubricant acquires when it combines with the contaminants produced by the interacting metal parts of the chain. The lubricant is purposely designed to operate in such conditions.
> 
> ...


Hearing this it definitely looks like I'm cleaning way too often. I always thought the black was from dirt combining with the lube which meant the lube and chain were dirty and needed to be cleaned. I'll stop babying it so much and simply apply lube instead of degreaser next time.


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## satanas (Nov 8, 2002)

Clean the chain?!? Why bother doing that????? IMHO the best solution is to use a relatvely non-dirt-attractant lube, apply it sparingly, let it soak in, then wipe off the excess. Reapply *only* if/when the chain starts to squeak, gets rusty or feels less efficient. If it doesn't rain that can be quite a while, and I'd rather spend my time sleeping/reading/riding the bike, etc, etc, than cleaning things for no real gain. Of course, neat freaks and OCD types won't agree, but this policy has worked for me over many years.

FWIW, I've worked in bike shops and had to degrease chains for customers but have seen no sign that this achieves anything except (briefly) a cleaner cosmetic appearance. Some sad types might actually like getting covered with degreaser and chain lube, but not me...


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## Kerry Irons (Feb 25, 2002)

*Chain life*



satanas said:


> Clean the chain?!? Why bother doing that????? IMHO the best solution is to use a relatvely non-dirt-attractant lube, apply it sparingly, let it soak in, then wipe off the excess. Reapply *only* if/when the chain starts to squeak, gets rusty or feels less efficient. If it doesn't rain that can be quite a while, and I'd rather spend my time sleeping/reading/riding the bike, etc, etc, than cleaning things for no real gain.


The consensus in which you obviously do not share is that chains wear due to the "grinding paste" that is lube, dirt, grit, and metal flakes from chain wear. Removing the grinding paste is presumed to make chains last longer. Nobody can provide conclusive evidence for this though it makes emminent sense. It would be hard to do a chain life study since there are so many variables. It seems to me that waiting until the chain starts to squeak is way past reasonable, but if you're happy with it . . .


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## captain stubbing (Mar 30, 2011)

for me, i clean the chain about once a month so that's about every 500 miles. maybe a bit more in winter if the pulleys start accumulating crud. 

i haven't noticed any excessive wear, i replace the chain about every 6 months ($30) and i'm still running the original cassette which has about 12,000 miles on it.

and my cleaning consists of a quick wipe of the chain with some kerosene, have a cup of tea whilst the residue evaporates, then apply the lube.....have another cup of tea whilst it sinks in, and then go back and wipe off the excess.....about 5 minutes (not including the tea breaks).

occasionally I'll substitute tea with beer if its hot!

you'll get a million opinions on this......excessive cleaning *may *give u a little more mileage but it really comes down to whether u like doing it or whether you'd prefer to be doing something else.


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## satanas (Nov 8, 2002)

^^ I usually lube the chain when it gets to the "feels less efficient" stage, but squeaking or rust are sure signs that lubricaton is required (or slightly overdue). IMHO it's better to errr on the side of a bit less lube than to end up with vast amounts of black sludge caked everywhere, as is not infrequently seen.

I'm not at all convinced that "cleaning" chains by flushing them with solvents achieves anything other than contaminating sewers and wasting time, effort and money. I suppose chains *might* last a bit longer if always perfectly clean, but chains are cheap enough that a few hundred km more or less is much less hassle than hours spent degreasing chains, cleaning floors and clothes, etc, etc. Once I reliably get several thousand km out of chains then less aggro is of more value to me than is maintenance. YMMV. As I said, I have other things I'd rather do than maintenance that can be easily avoided - I did that for years at work and it's no more fun at home...


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## B2 (Mar 12, 2002)

willieboy said:


> I wipe down my chain after every ride and also floss my cassette. Takes all of ten minutes. Apply lube every 100 miles or so. I like my stuff clean and quiet. I have always believed in taking care on my drivetrain. I think it extends the life of the parts for sure.


^^^ This is basically my approach also. I use a pretty light lube that attracts dirt less (Boeshield T9) so I reapply lube after wiping the chain most every time also. It's really quite easy and doesn't take hardly take but a moment. About once a year or so I remove chain and cassette from the bike and thoroughly clean with degreaser.


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## Ping279 (Apr 11, 2012)

captain stubbing said:


> you'll get a million opinions on this......excessive cleaning *may *give u a little more mileage but it really comes down to whether u like doing it or whether you'd prefer to be doing something else.


I do kind of enjoy cleaning the bike, as I like taking care of it but I'm definitely going to ease up on the cleaning. Like I said before, I'm going to try and only degrease the chain after wet conditions and after it really gets gunky. For now I will stick with applying lube every 100 miles or so.


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## locustfist (Feb 21, 2009)

AndreyT said:


> A freshly cleaned and lubed chain that looks silver at the start will become black in about 30-60 minutes into the ride. Black is the normal color of the chain. Black color of the chain is not an indication of it being dirty. Black is the color that the chain lubricant acquires when it combines with the contaminants produced by the interacting metal parts of the chain.


Yes, inside the chain maybe. But the outer plates should not be black on the outside, that just means there is too much lube. Then the cogs get messy and attract junk that then gets into the rollers.

If the outside of the outside plates is gunky...clean the drivetrain.


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## Bill Silverman (Apr 2, 2007)

Willieboy: 

Same here, except I do it every time I get ready to ride one of my bikes. I wipe down the chain, remove the rear wheel, floss out the cassette (or freewheel), put a drop of lube on each chainlink & then backpedal the cranks about 30 turns, wipe that down, floss and clean off the the crank chainrings, and finish off with a quick wipe-down of the frame with a damp paper towel.

Takes me all of 10 minutes and makes it a joy to ride the bike, listening to it purr like a well-kept watch.

Bill in Pasadena


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## Oxtox (Aug 16, 2006)

Bill Silverman said:


> Same here, except I do it every time I get ready to ride one of my bikes. I wipe down the chain, remove the rear wheel, floss out the cassette (or freewheel), put a drop of lube on each chainlink & then backpedal the cranks about 30 turns, wipe that down, floss and clean off the the crank chainrings, and finish off with a quick wipe-down of the frame with a damp paper towel.
> 
> Takes me all of 10 minutes and makes it a joy to ride the bike, listening to it purr like a well-kept watch.


while I wipe the chain down often, my re-lube interval is about currently about 750 mi. the drivetrain remains silky smooth during that period. 

unless you're riding in absolutely slop conditions, the process you describe sounds more like an OCD condition than a maintenance requirement.

I rode 274 times so far this year, spending 10 min prepping the drivetrain for each ride would have wasted almost 46 hours of time. in 46 hrs, I could have ridden another 650 miles...

but, if it makes you happy, carry on.


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## Bill Silverman (Apr 2, 2007)

OCD, hmm...

I prefer to think of it as 46 hours of "happy" time.

; ^ )


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## demonrider (Jul 18, 2012)

Winter: After almost every ride I rinse the whole bike with water and run the chain through the chain cleaner with brush pulleys + biodegradable chain cleaner fluid. Pat dry and wait an hour before applying some extreme purple. Way too much salt around in the winter, if I don't do this my drivetrain turns orange within 45 minutes. First time it happened I nearly had a heart attack.

Summer: In the dry days of summer, I clean and re-lube the chain about every 250km, usually it will start to squeak mildly by this point anyway. Rest of the bike just needs a damp wipe in the summer to stay presentable.


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## MercRidnMike (Dec 19, 2006)

Ping, I may be as OCD as you (or I learned to clean my driveline as a mountain biker riding in dirty / dusty conditions) but my cleaning interval is about the same as your current interval. I usually clean / lube before I can hear the chain....typically every few rides or so and after any wet ride. 

Is it necessary? Probably not that often (except for after the wet rides). Can it be helpful? Sure...gets you in there looking at your bike and finding the little things before they become big things.


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## lindsaywollin (Dec 26, 2013)

I found it depends what sort of lube you use. personally I love Morgan Blue, you can't go past that stuff. My only problem with it, the same as people who use tri-flow as chain lube is it's really thin and flushes out while you ride, so you're always wiping the chain off after a ride. Now I stick to Muc-Off ceramic lube for everyday riding, it's thicker so it doesn't flush out all over your chain turning it and your cassette black, and it runs dead silent just like the Morgan blue. I'll still run Morgan blue for racing though


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## tihsepa (Nov 27, 2008)

lindsaywollin said:


> I found it depends what sort of lube you use. personally I love Morgan Blue, you can't go past that stuff. My only problem with it, the same as people who use tri-flow as chain lube is it's really thin and flushes out while you ride, so you're always wiping the chain off after a ride. Now I stick to Muc-Off ceramic lube for everyday riding, it's thicker so it doesn't flush out all over your chain turning it and your cassette black, and it runs dead silent just like the Morgan blue. I'll still run Morgan blue for racing though


We got a bunch of that Morgan Blue at the shop. A few samples of most or all of their products. It didnt move. We gave it away.


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## lindsaywollin (Dec 26, 2013)

tihsepa said:


> We got a bunch of that Morgan Blue at the shop. A few samples of most or all of their products. It didnt move. We gave it away.


Mostly for the flushing reason I've mostly stayed away, although the guys at work love to cram it down my throat how good it is because they sponsor all these pro teams. I could care less if they used it on a space shuttle... If I'm having to wipe black crap off my chain all the time I'm not going to use it for every day riding. I think it's mostly the price tag that's a killer with Morgan blue products, why spend double when you can get a product from another brand that does the exact same thing for less. I'll see this bottle of Morgan blue out, but I'm not buying another one, its great stuff other than the flushing and the price tag but it's not worth it


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