# Recommended ratio on rear cassette.



## 1bamafan14 (Jan 24, 2012)

I am still new to biking so I do know a lot about the finer details on things and ratios on rear cassettes are one that need some advice on. What ratio do you guys reccommend? I ride for fitness so usually 40 miles is my longest trip but I plan on doing a century this summer. I ride hills and flats some hills being pretty steep. I try to maintain 16 mph avg. for all of my rides. I really like my nine speed triple so I don't want to change that. Any help would be appreciated.


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## looigi (Nov 24, 2010)

1bamafan14 said:


> ...I really like my nine speed triple so I don't want to change that...


Welllll, what is it you don't like or hope to improve then? Is the high high enough, the low low enough, are there bothersome gaps between adjacent cogs? I aint rocket science.


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## AlanE (Jan 22, 2002)

What do you have now? Specifically, what chainrings do yo have on the triple, and what are the smallest and largest cogs on your cassette?


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## 1bamafan14 (Jan 24, 2012)

looigi said:


> Welllll, what is it you don't like or hope to improve then? Is the high high enough, the low low enough, are there bothersome gaps between adjacent cogs? I aint rocket science.


Show off! My cassette is worn and the shifting is jerky.


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## 1bamafan14 (Jan 24, 2012)

Just looking to see what you guys like.


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## Guod (Jun 9, 2011)

It depends... On the bike with the standard crank I have a 12-27, on my compact setup I have a 12-25. The ratio for the lightest gear is the same for both (39X27 and 34X25). If I don't plan on climbing anything serious I'll run the 12-25 on the standard. If you're not the best climber I'd say a compact crank or triple with a 12-27 or 28 would allow you to climb pretty much anything. I wouldn't worry about spinning out, an 11t small cog in the rear is probably unnecessary.


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## dougclaysmith (Oct 17, 2009)

1bamafan14 said:


> I am still new to biking so I do know a lot about the finer details on things and ratios on rear cassettes.


Don't feel bad, I've been riding for years, and I still don't understand all that ratio cassette stuff. (I have Campy Chorus 11 on my Colnago, but gears, etc, I don't know)



But, hey, shhhhh, call it cycling, not biking. They'll kill you in some circles for that.


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## OldZaskar (Jul 1, 2009)

Think of it like this... If you rarely or never use your highest / biggest gear (large chainring + smallest cog) and/or you rarely or never use your lowest / smallest gear (small chainring + biggest cog), then consider tightening the ratio of the cassette, e.g. if you're currently running an 12-27, consider an 11-25. But first pay attention to which end of your current spectrum you're currently leaning toward - and tighten the ratio accordingly. 

A tighter ratio (cassette) makes for nicer shifting. Just smoother, quicker, quieter... nicer.


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## mmoose (Apr 2, 2004)

Well, what I like is different. I wanted an 11-23 on the new bike. Not that I'll used the 11, but want to cruise in 39/12 without the cross chaining. And I only used the 25 for about 50 meters in Colorado last summer. But that's probably not you.

I trust my lbs, so if I thought that I needed some work done, I'd drop it off, describe what I'm concerned about and let them have at it. But not everyone likes/trusts their lbs...

So maybe count each gear and look at what is currently there. If you really like what you have now, just replace what's there with the same. If you want more hill gears and are willing to sacrifice a little top end, that doesn't sound horrible either.
(Comprimise, show up at your local group ride and ask some friends some questions. They'll know you better than we will. I know I have a lot to learn about riding cross bikes in the snow and the art of tire pressure, So I'm working on making friends there)


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## brucew (Jun 3, 2006)

1bamafan14 said:


> Show off! My cassette is worn and the shifting is jerky.


He's not showing off. Those are legitimate questions.

Gearing is very dependent on rider strength, cycling style, and local terrain. 

To answer your question, I prefer 12-23 cassettes, on both my triples and standard doubles. But is my leg strength, preferred cadence, and local terrain the same as yours or different?

So... 


What cassette do you have now?
Other than it being worn and shifting poorly, are there things you dislike about it?
Do you run out of gears when climbing steep hills?
Do you run out of gears on fast descents?
On the flatlands, can you find a comfortable gear or are you hunting between two or three of them?
Are the gaps between your gears workable? Or could they be closer?
What's your typical terrain like? (How steep is steep? Are the hills rolling or miles long? Are the flatlands open to the winds or protected? City, suburban, or rural?)
Are you a spinner or a masher?

You can get by with just about any cassette--especially since you have a triple. Those are all things we need to know in order to fine-tune things and help you choose the "right" cassette. 

And without knowing those things about why we chose our preferred cassettes, you can't really compare our choices to yourself, can you?

For the sake of completeness, on my 8-speed, I run a 13-23. I'm willing to give up the 12 to get the 16, so I don't have that gap in my sweet spot.. 

In the winter, when the studded snow tires go on my commuter, I switch to a 12-27 (although I'm considering a 14-25) because the tires are over three times the weight of my three-season tires, and have considerably more rolling resistance. They make the bike just plain tougher to pedal. And that's before factoring in pushing through the snow and slop.


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## JCavilia (Sep 12, 2005)

1bamafan14 said:


> Just looking to see what you guys like.


People could answer that, but it would be completely useless information for you. Different riders "like" different cassette ranges ("ratio" isn't really the right word) depending on their terrain, fitness, riding style, etc. What some guy uses tells you nothing about what will work for you. 

To get some meaningful advice here, give us the information brucew asked about.


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## LC (Jan 28, 2004)

On a triple with a 30T small ring I like a 12-25 or 12-26. I ride on very steep and long hills.


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## nightfend (Mar 15, 2009)

1bamafan14 said:


> Just looking to see what you guys like.


I like a 53/39 and a 12-27 if I am doing steep hills/climbs.


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## Drew Eckhardt (Nov 11, 2009)

1bamafan14 said:


> I am still new to biking so I do know a lot about the finer details on things and ratios on rear cassettes are one that need some advice on. What ratio do you guys reccommend? I ride for fitness so usually 40 miles is my longest trip but I plan on doing a century this summer. I ride hills and flats some hills being pretty steep. I try to maintain 16 mph avg. for all of my rides. I really like my nine speed triple so I don't want to change that. Any help would be appreciated.


13-14-15-16-17-18-19-21-23. Nice tight spacing between cogs, plenty low with a triple 30 tooth ring or 34 compact double small ring to get a fit rider over everything in the Colorado Rockies, and with more than enough high gear - you don't need to sprint over 39-41 MPH as a recreational rider (assuming 50 and 53 rings) and past 32-33 MPH down hill you can just tuck. Throw a smaller granny ring on if you've picked up some middle aged spread - where your legs are built for 145 pounds in racing form and your belly bump has you at 180 pounds a 28 or 26 will still let you spin up the common grades at 6% and under.

As a frame of reference, 30x23 is like 34x26 on a compact crank, 39x30 on a modern double, or 42x32 with a classic crankset. 30x21 is like 34x23, 39x27, or 42x29. Lots of people were happy with 42x28 when 10 speeds meant 2 rings with 5 cogs and do fine with 39x25 or 26 as a low gear.

Over a decade in Boulder, CO I started with a 50-40-30 x 13-14-15-16-17-18-19-21 so I wouldn't want to change cassettes depending on whether I was riding east or west until Campagnolo discontinued my favorite 8 speed cassette, added a 23 on the end with the move to 9 cogs, and swapped the crankset for 50-34 after wearing out my big ring (that was a mistake - there's a lot more double shifting and I'll ride 50x21 or 34x14 instead of 40x17 in the middle of the cassette which is quieter).

Of course you probably have a much better idea about how steep and long your hills are, what sort of power you can produce, how much you weigh, what your preferred cadence range is, what happens to fatigue outside that range, and are otherwise in a much better position to decide your own gearing.

Some experimentation on cadence range could be useful though - I noticed that I could ride threshold intervals on consecutive days at 90-105 RPM but not either side of the 85 RPM I rode before noticing that.


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## Max09 (May 3, 2011)

*Gears*

Flat days with less than 2000 feet of climbing 12/25 cassette, climbing days 11/28 cassette, compact crarkset for both, TT bike 53/39 crankset with 12/25 cassette...


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## kbwh (May 28, 2010)

In Mallorca last year I was on a 50/40/30 triple and a 12-21 9 speed cassette. Nice and tight gearing and the range was pretty close to my normal 11 speed 50/34 and 11-23 (I didn't need that top speed 50x11 down there).


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## 1bamafan14 (Jan 24, 2012)

Thanks guys! It really helps us newbies to have so many folks willing to put up with our stupid questions.


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## Blue CheeseHead (Jul 14, 2008)

1bamafan14 said:


> Just looking to see what you guys like.


There are too many variables. I have a 10 speed and like my 12-23 for flat and moderate hills and then install a 12-27 for hilly rides. I have not found a use for a 12-25.

If you don't want to change gears, get the gears that will get you up your steepest climbs.


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## JCavilia (Sep 12, 2005)

Guod said:


> It depends... On the bike with the standard crank I have a 12-27, on my compact setup I have a 12-25. *The ratio for the lightest gear is the same for both (39X27 and 34X25)*.


ummm, no it ain't . . . Not the way I do the math.


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## cs101 (Jan 12, 2012)

I ride 53/39 and 12-25 in the Colo. Rockies.


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## buttonweld (Feb 1, 2012)

*ratio smashio*

Hello

I used to race in the US and UCI races in Belgium and France.
All I really cared about was cadence.

If you are a rec rider, just go have fun. 

I remember being in Belgium and some monster passing me at like 30-35 with Shimano 105. Sometimes there is just too much emphasis on science and gear. 

If you plan to do some important time trials, then sure, work out some gear ratios.
But, then you'd also have to have a power meter so you could identify what is best considering power transfer, speeds etc.

As a rec rider, all that should matter is having a gear easy enough for your toughest climbs. maybe a 39 in front and a 25 in back, for example. Depends on your weight and your power. You'll quickly learn if your gearing isn't providing you with the range you'd like. 

The only guys I ever raced against who needed a bigger gear were the McCormack brothers. If you are spinning out your biggest gear then you are a monster, cruising at like 35 on the flats. Then you are also a pro and have a mechanic to deal with this stuff. Since there are now 20+ gear choices (yes, obs theres overlap) you should never really have any problem finding a gear that is comfortable and functional for your needs.


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## tuck (Oct 4, 2011)

dougclaysmith said:


> Don't feel bad, I've been riding for years, and I still don't understand all that ratio cassette stuff.


I don't really understand it now...I won't tomorrow...and I won't ever. My mind just isn't geared (pun intended  ) toward numbery thingies. Glad to know I'm not the only one.


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## buttonweld (Feb 1, 2012)

*gear ratio vs gearing*

Also, there seems to be some confusion. 

Gear ratio is a calculation based on wheel size and gearing, etc. 
So its not correct to say: "my ratio is 53x12"
I can't post links, but check out Sheldon Browns site. He was a calculator there. 
That's why I was saying gear ratio is irrelevant for a rec rider. 

I think the question is really: "what gearing do you use"


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## 55x11 (Apr 24, 2006)

buttonweld said:


> Also, there seems to be some confusion.
> 
> Gear ratio is a calculation based on wheel size and gearing, etc.
> So its not correct to say: "my ratio is 53x12"
> ...


We can probably safely assume standard road wheel size of 700mm. Then it is as simple as saying 53x12.

A good way to figure out gear ratios you need is try to estimate the speed (or at least gradient and length of the climb) you will be riding at, and get gear ratio that lets you maintain a reasonable (say 60-70 rpm) pedaling rate.

With triple you probably already have a pretty reasonable range, similar to that of a compact. Still, for very steep long climbs (>8% for an hour), I find that even very good climbers could use 50x34 compact at the front and 11-28 cassette in the back - those cassettes work with most derailleurs and will allow you to go as slow as 5.7mph at 60 rpm pedaling rate in 34x28 on steep climbs, and spin at 120rpm in 50x11 on downhills to get up to 42.6mph before spinning out. That's pretty much all the range I need on the road.

When I lived in flatlands (Chicago) with no mountains or even hills to speak of, I rode 52x39 at the front and 11x23 or 11x25 in the back - those cassettes are pretty much useless to me now in SoCal.

Sheldon Brown's Bicycle Gear Calculator


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## kbwh (May 28, 2010)

Best online gear calculator ever:
http://www.gear-calculator.com/


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## buttonweld (Feb 1, 2012)

I just mean that the statement should be: my gear ratio is 8.5 while the gearing is 53x12.
Just being particular since the thread was started by a newbie. 
Its relevant because different gearings can yield the same ratio, a concept anyone should be made aware of.


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## DonDenver (May 30, 2007)

buttonweld said:


> If you are a rec rider, just go have fun.
> 
> I remember being in Belgium and some monster passing me at like 30-35 with Shimano 105. Sometimes there is just too much emphasis on science and gear.
> .


^ Great introduction post buttonweld. So true...as often exampled in this forum :thumbsup:


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## MerlinAma (Oct 11, 2005)

cs101 said:


> I ride 53/39 and 12-25 in the Colo. Rockies.


Yet I need 50/34 and 11-28 in the Colo. Rockies. 

But I'm old too. Like mid-60's.


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## TomH (Oct 6, 2008)

I had a 12-25 10s cassette before. I hated it, id have to shift 3 or 4 times to really be in a different gear. Rolling hills were the worst, it was an exercise in paddling through tons of gears over and over.

Im on 11-28 8s now, and its great. Each gear change is effective and significant. Talk to some fast single speed riders about specific cadence  Id much rather pedal a little harder to keep cadence than row through tons of gears.


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## Kerry Irons (Feb 25, 2002)

*Alternatives*



mmoose said:


> I wanted an 11-23 on the new bike. Not that I'll used the 11, but want to cruise in 39/12 without the cross chaining.


Please note that the 39/12 is close to or actually is cross chaining and you would get the same ratio in a 53/16 with lower friction, less chain wear, and less chain ring and cassette cog wear.

I'm impressed that you can cruise at nearly 23 mph (39/12 at 90 rpm).


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## 55x11 (Apr 24, 2006)

cs101 said:


> I ride 53/39 and 12-25 in the Colo. Rockies.


really? can you spin up Magnolia road in 39x25? Impressive!

Magnolia Road (Paved segment)


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