# What was Farrar implying?



## dasho (Apr 8, 2002)

Does anyone know why Tyler Farrar seemed so peeved after losing to Cavendish today (other than losing)?

He mentioned something about Cavendish being 70 km behind the peleton yesterday etc.

Ligget made a comment but not sure what he meant.


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## thehook (Mar 14, 2006)

I'm watching it now. Holy Jezzz! Sounds like Tyler thinks something is fishy!


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## ohvrolla (Aug 2, 2009)

Didn't hear the comment, but he needs to position himself better. He was definitely gaining on Cavendish.


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## Poppadaddio (Apr 15, 2007)

He was accused of holding onto cars ....
http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/tour-de-france-organizers-downplay-sprinterss-spat


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## BicycleBastard (Mar 5, 2011)

Sprinters are notorious whiny babies. If Cav was holding onto cars then he should be punished accordingly but guys like Farrar are just being the tattle tale of the group. If he has issues with Cavendish then why say anything to a media you know will blow it out of proportion. Go to the guy and talk to him, go the race directors and talk to them. He losses and whines, what a surprise.


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## Kai Winters (Aug 23, 2009)

I don't think Farrar is that good a sprinter. His team does not seem to know how to do the train like the HTC team does and Tyler looks inexperienced when he positions himself in the last few hundred meters.

Hopefully he will improve but he will never be as fast or as good as Cavendish is...


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## penn_rider (Jul 11, 2009)

Totally agree with BB... 

I have seen holding on and drafting both with and without penalty. 

I think Farrar was just speaking out of frustration with his performance. A better jump and he would have won today.


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## spookyload (Jan 30, 2004)

They blame Cav of holding on to cars all the time. The cameras catching everyone holding on to cars, but the race officials can't penalize based on that. They have to witness the infraction in person. Sort of like calling a penalty in Football because the coach said it happened. If they don't see you, you are not going to get penalized. with a limited number of officials, do you really think they are going to put one 25 minutes behind the main group to watch folks who have no bearing on the stage?


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## atpjunkie (Mar 23, 2002)

*cry me a river*

Tyler if you wanna be upset why don't you ask why your team didn't help HTC pull back that break? How can you whine when the team that chased for 18o K plus today still had the firepower to control the sprint. You won your only sprint when your team Hijacked the lead out (great move). If Garmin Cervelo can't steal the reigns away from the only team that worked all friggin day your complaints would best be used @ home


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## peterk (Jun 28, 2008)

I thought that Tyler may have been referring to the fact that Cav finished just one and half minutes under the time cut. I figured he was pissed that Cav and some of his guys may have held back the day before. 

Even if they did, I think it is good strategy if your focus is the green jersey only. 

I agree with others though. Tyler did not seem to have support. He may have been upset over that as well. I have never seen him like that before.


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## 55x11 (Apr 24, 2006)

atpjunkie said:


> Tyler if you wanna be upset why don't you ask why your team didn't help HTC pull back that break? How can you whine when the team that chased for 18o K plus today still had the firepower to control the sprint. You won your only sprint when your team Hijacked the lead out (great move). If Garmin Cervelo can't steal the reigns away from the only team that worked all friggin day your complaints would best be used @ home


I agree with everything you guys have to say. Cav doesn't win sprint just because he "holds on to cars". This is silly and shows how childish sprinters are.

I suspect there is some "holding on to cars" going on, but it's not all that prevalent and goes all kind of ways. Cameras follow Cav all the time and yet there's never footage - all we hear is complaining. I really hope Rojas and Farrar now won't be caught on camera holding on to cars or their teammates - hypocrisy in this type of accusations is worse than "bending the rules".


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## atpjunkie (Mar 23, 2002)

*it was a mountain stage*



peterk said:


> I thought that Tyler may have been referring to the fact that Cav finished just one and half minutes under the time cut. I figured he was pissed that Cav and some of his guys may have held back the day before.
> 
> Even if they did, I think it is good strategy if your focus is the green jersey only.
> 
> I agree with others though. Tyler did not seem to have support. He may have been upset over that as well. I have never seen him like that before.


why wouldn't Cav and co save some energy. Hell they didn't today. Better question, where were the Garmin (and Moviestar, and Lampre, and Omega Pharma Lotto) riders to help Pate and Bak with the chase?


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## pretender (Sep 18, 2007)

We all have bad days where we say things we later regret.


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## foto (Feb 7, 2005)

I am really following the tour for the first time this year, and I don't really get what this thread is about.

I watched that interview, and to me it seemed as though Tyler was just saying how frustrated he was for having lost to someone who was so far back yesterday. I mean, that interview is mere minutes after the finish, Tyler was still breathing hard. Is he supposed to be without emotion, just philosophical and circumspect? It must be hugely demoralizing to lose by half a wheel on the last sprint stage before Paris, and then to be asked to give a response about your obvious emotions by reporters before you even have a chance to change out of your sweaty clothes. 

Yeah it must suck to lose to someone by so little who was so far off the back yesterday.


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## robdamanii (Feb 13, 2006)

BicycleBastard said:


> Sprinters are notorious whiny babies. If Cav was holding onto cars then he should be punished accordingly but guys like Farrar are just being the tattle tale of the group. If he has issues with Cavendish then why say anything to a media you know will blow it out of proportion. Go to the guy and talk to him, go the race directors and talk to them. He losses and whines, what a surprise.


So Gilbert and Rojas complaining about Cavendoosh holding on to cars is a bunch of guys being whiny crybabies?

Get real.

This is the second time we've heard of Cavendoosh hanging onto a car to get a tow up a climb (Mt. Etna in the Giro was the first accusation of such an infraction.) Interesting that it keeps coming up from multiple sources...

Edited to add: The report on Cyclingnews that I read stated that Rojas had asked the commissaries to put a camera on him, since he'd been spit out the back of the autobus. Apparently they declined to do so.


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## moabbiker (Sep 11, 2002)

It's clear the reference was made to the allegations of automotive-assist-doping of Cavendish. If he got dropped by the autobus (on purpose, perhaps) and solo'd in much of the distance, then a team car could conceivably drop back and provide the nourishment of overcoming gravity. Doesn't necessarily need to be long periods of time, a few seconds here and there with the speedo at 50 will do you wonders on a vertical incline.


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## ric11 (Oct 17, 2010)

Id be pissed to if I worked my way up the mountain while my rival hitched a ride...


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## foto (Feb 7, 2005)

Really, you are able to get all that from that one comment? Are you sure you guys aren't reading in to this a little too much?


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## superbad (Aug 18, 2008)

Cav looks poised to break some records, if he is able to do that because he was getting motorized assistance over the climbs, then why not just bring back doping??


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## gaspi101 (May 12, 2011)

He said something like, "I can't believe he would do something like that, it's so dangerous, and in the Tour of France...". I thought he was saying Cav did something improper at the finish.


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## stevesbike (Jun 3, 2002)

Kai Winters said:


> I don't think Farrar is that good a sprinter. His team does not seem to know how to do the train like the HTC team does and Tyler looks inexperienced when he positions himself in the last few hundred meters.
> 
> Hopefully he will improve but he will never be as fast or as good as Cavendish is...


really? He beat Cav in a sprint this year at the Tour - make a list of American sprinters who have won sprint finishes at the tour (I can think of only one other)


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## Cinelli 82220 (Dec 2, 2010)

atpjunkie said:


> Tyler if you wanna be upset why don't you ask why your team didn't help HTC pull back that break? How can you whine when the team that chased for 18o K plus today still had the firepower to control the sprint. You won your only sprint when your team Hijacked the lead out (great move). If Garmin Cervelo can't steal the reigns away from the only team that worked all friggin day your complaints would best be used @ home


HTC were riding in perfect formation on the right hand side for ages...and where was Garmin? I don't care what happened yesterday, where was Garmin today?
HTC worked bloody hard today and deserve the win.


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## AdamM (Jul 9, 2008)

Cav situation aside, IMO the tows given from all the team cars have gotten way out of hand.


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## Cinelli 82220 (Dec 2, 2010)

55x11 said:


> I suspect there is some "holding on to cars" going on, but it's not all that prevalent and goes all kind of ways.


Indeed it does...there are LOTS of sticky bottles being handed up to riders, including Farrar's teammates. 


> Cameras follow Cav all the time and yet there's never footage - all we hear is complaining.


I bet Cavendish pretty much has a camera on him all the time. No need for Rojas to assign one.


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## penn_rider (Jul 11, 2009)

foto said:


> I am really following the tour for the first time this year, and I don't really get what this thread is about.
> 
> I watched that interview, and to me it seemed as though Tyler was just saying how frustrated he was for having lost to someone who was so far back yesterday. I mean, that interview is mere minutes after the finish, Tyler was still breathing hard. Is he supposed to be without emotion, just philosophical and circumspect? It must be hugely demoralizing to lose by half a wheel on the last sprint stage before Paris, and then to be asked to give a response about your obvious emotions by reporters before you even have a chance to change out of your sweaty clothes.
> 
> Yeah it must suck to lose to someone by so little who was so far off the back yesterday.


Farrar should have his post race interview memorized by now which should eliminate any accidental frustrating whine.. It s easy to say "He is just faster than I am"..


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## makeitso (Sep 20, 2008)

Was that one rider relegated for the obvious motorpacing? I never saw any news about that and the cameras were on him while he was doing it for quite a while.


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## Matt1986 (Mar 19, 2010)

robdamanii said:


> So Gilbert and Rojas complaining about Cavendoosh holding on to cars is a bunch of guys being whiny crybabies?
> 
> Get real.


Actually, it was just Rojas. If you read the link posted earlier it clearly states that Gilbert and his team denied there was any complaints made re: Cavendish and said that 'Rojas is always looking for excuses'.

As regards Farrar, just because he's won a sprint in the tour doesn't place him in the same league as Cavendish - when you average roughly 5 stage wins per tour you're clearly doing something above and beyond your competitors.


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## robdamanii (Feb 13, 2006)

Matt1986 said:


> Actually, it was just Rojas. If you read the link posted earlier it clearly states that Gilbert and his team denied there was any complaints made re: Cavendish and said that 'Rojas is always looking for excuses'.
> 
> As regards Farrar, just because he's won a sprint in the tour doesn't place him in the same league as Cavendish - when you average roughly 5 stage wins per tour you're clearly doing something above and beyond your competitors.


Ah, I misread the article. Good catch.


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## dougydee (Feb 15, 2005)

Cinelli 82220 said:


> I bet Cavendish pretty much has a camera on him all the time. No need for Rojas to assign one.


I doubt cav would have a camera on him all the time. Why waste a camera on a one rider who's way out the back on a mountain stage?


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## mtrider05 (Aug 8, 2009)

Matt1986 said:


> Actually, it was just Rojas. If you read the link posted earlier it clearly states that Gilbert and his team denied there was any complaints made re: Cavendish and said that 'Rojas is always looking for excuses'.
> 
> As regards Farrar, just because he's won a sprint in the tour doesn't place him in the same league as Cavendish - when you average roughly 5 stage wins per tour you're clearly doing something above and beyond your competitors.


I think his success is mostly attributed to the lead out train, when Tyler won Cav didn't have his lead out train. Tyler would have won if given another 5 yards today, whole buncha "ifs" of course. Regardless, the man is fast.


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## OldEndicottHiway (Jul 16, 2007)

gawd.

A few posts on this thread that are downright...laughable.


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## nims (Jul 7, 2009)

dougydee said:


> I doubt cav would have a camera on him all the time. Why waste a camera on a one rider who's way out the back on a mountain stage?


I dunno but since he was at risk of not finishing at the time limit, I think it would have been nice to see camera follow him a little.


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## jtimmer1 (Mar 28, 2009)

Supposedly a few members of his team fell back to pace him back to the groupetto. Who knows what really happened. Farrar just needs to position himself better. He was gaining on Cavendish at the end, just needed a few more meters.


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## JoelS (Aug 25, 2008)

Tyler needs to get mad and pissed off instead of whining and complaining. If he sprints mad, he'll have a better chance.


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## ocean-ro (Nov 23, 2009)

Tyler can win tomorrow the"Rest Day Sprint Prize"
With a lead-out from his team bus.
Good job,Tyler(Crybaby)Farrar


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## Gatorback (Jul 11, 2009)

I'd like to know whether he was in fact holding on to cars to get up the climbs. If he was doing so, I'd be pissed too. Is it fair to lose by half a wheel to a guy when you worked your ass off the day before to get over mountains and beat the cut-off and a "sprinter only" who can't get over the climbs in time to stay in the race does so only by hitching a ride each time he is getting dropped from the grupetto? No, if that happened it is bullshit. 

If he was doing the normal hold on for 10 seconds while getting water bottles, or while a mechanic legitimately addressed a problem, that is one thing--they let all the riders get away with that (although probably not on climbs where they would watch close). If he was hitching rides because he was getting dropped and he isn't good enough to get over the mountains and beat the cut-off without help, he should no longer be in the race. That is the way the grand tours work. How about we just go get all the best track racers in the world, let them train for sprints only, and have them hitch rides when they need help? Farrar and Rojas and Petacchi have to train to get over the climbs, and that hurts their sprinting power, so why shouldn't Cavendish have to do so? 

I wasn't there and don't know if he was hitching rides, but I'd like to know. If it is a guy or two just looking for a reason to complain and are jealous, that is different. But if Cavendish was in fact doing what Rojas and Farrar seem to think (and quite probably Gilbert although his team doesn't want him to look like he is complaining so denied it), then Cavendish shouldn't be in the race.

I think it is kind of funny people are calling other sprinters crybabies. To me Cavendish seems like the biggest crybaby of them all. He usually is whining to reporters whenever he doesn't win, but you don't even need to wait for the post-race quotes. Just watch him. He is throwing up his hand and making gestures virtually every time he gets something other than first in a bunch sprint. 

Has Cavendish ever even finished a grand tour? Usually he grabs his wins and leaves. Maybe we are now learning why (i.e. he can't get over the climbs with other pro sprinters).


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## dougydee (Feb 15, 2005)

Gatorback said:


> Has Cavendish ever even finished a grand tour? Usually he grabs his wins and leaves. Maybe we are now learning why (i.e. he can't get over the climbs with other pro sprinters).


Pretty sure he finished last year. He won on the Champs-Élysées.


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## 88 rex (Mar 18, 2008)

Gatorback said:


> Has Cavendish ever even finished a grand tour?


Yes. Last Year's TdF.


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## OnTheRivet (Sep 3, 2004)

The reason he gets accused of getting towed is he gets dropped from the bunch so early in the stage, at a point where a grupetto hasn't even formed up. On stage 14 he was dropped 100k from the finish on the Col de la Core, all the other sprinters made it over that climb in the group. 
_
1.08pm: Crikey, Mark Cavendish is struggling badly at the back of the peloton - dropping back behind the pack on his own and overheating to the point where his team-mate Bernard Eisel dropped back to throw a bottle of water over him. He really looks to be struggling._

There is no way in hell he is getting over a 1,2,3 and HC climb in the time limit without (car) help if he is groveling that early in the stage.


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## foto (Feb 7, 2005)

What exactly is Tyler whining about? I just heard him say it is frustrating to lose to a person who had such a hard time yesterday.

Should he complain about being forced to sprint from a lousey position? About having to contend against the HTC train? About not getting any team support?

This thread is like a HS locker room...I am getting the sense the drama is here, not at the race.


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## AJL (Jul 9, 2009)

Tyler should be pissed off at his team. He had a hell of a turn of speed today, but he was too far back. His team can't put him close of enough to Cav to get a real mano-on-mano sprint going. Kinda sucks because it'd make the sprint finishes more interesting.

As far as his rambling, sprinters are notorious for saying all kinds of sh*t at the end of stage, lack of oxygen to the brain after extreme anaerobic efforts, IMHO.


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## Sharknose (Aug 9, 2010)

stevesbike said:


> really? He beat Cav in a sprint this year at the Tour - make a list of American sprinters who have won sprint finishes at the tour (I can think of only one other)


Davis Phinney in 1986 and 1987, Jeff Pierce in 1987 on the Champs-Élysées. Team 7-Eleven had its moments.


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## 55x11 (Apr 24, 2006)

OnTheRivet said:


> The reason he gets accused of getting towed is he gets dropped from the bunch so early in the stage, at a point where a grupetto hasn't even formed up. On stage 14 he was dropped 100k from the finish on the Col de la Core, all the other sprinters made it over that climb in the group.
> _
> 1.08pm: Crikey, Mark Cavendish is struggling badly at the back of the peloton - dropping back behind the pack on his own and overheating to the point where his team-mate Bernard Eisel dropped back to throw a bottle of water over him. He really looks to be struggling._
> 
> There is no way in hell he is getting over a 1,2,3 and HC climb in the time limit without (car) help if he is groveling that early in the stage.


But there are also these reports:
13: 10: 19 BST
The team cars are moving past Cavendish. He is losing more time. 

13: 17: 43 BST
The peloton is now over the top of the climb and Cavendish has quickly recaught them.

And then in the end Cav finishes with a huge autobus group, with time of 26:45 for Farrar, 26:54 for Cavendish (a split in the group) behind stage winner.

He must have done the final 3 hours with the same group as Farrar, and they were all within the time limits. Just because he dropped off with 80K to go, and then rejoined 10 min later over the hill doesn't mean he did 80K all alone! 

I think this is all too silly.


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## Sharknose (Aug 9, 2010)

Gatorback said:


> I think it is kind of funny people are calling other sprinters crybabies. To me Cavendish seems like the biggest crybaby of them all. He usually is whining to reporters whenever he doesn't win, but you don't even need to wait for the post-race quotes. Just watch him.


According to Velonews, "Cavendish, who’s won two stages so far in this Tour, was gracious in defeat and refused to raise to the bait when journalists asked him about his sometimes contentious relationship with Greipel."

That jibes with the post race interviews I saw of Cavendish. He was smiling, congratulated Greipel, and blamed his loss on his own mistake judging the sprint.


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## sir duke (Mar 24, 2006)

OldEndicottHiway said:


> gawd.
> 
> A few posts on this thread that are downright...laughable.


Couldn't agree more. I can't stand to hear the sound of barrel bottoms being scraped. Seems like Cav has got inside Farrar's head.


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## OnTheRivet (Sep 3, 2004)

AJL said:


> Tyler should be pissed off at his team. He had a hell of a turn of speed today, but he was too far back. His team can't put him close of enough to Cav to get a real mano-on-mano sprint going. Kinda sucks because it'd make the sprint finishes more interesting.
> 
> As far as his rambling, sprinters are notorious for saying all kinds of sh*t at the end of stage, lack of oxygen to the brain after extreme anaerobic efforts, IMHO.


It'll be interesting to see if Cavendish is able to find a team that will be built around him when HTC folds. I think a huge part of his success is his leadout, we'll see.


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## Salsa_Lover (Jul 6, 2008)

Gatorback said:


> I'd like to know whether he was in fact holding on to cars to get up the climbs. If he was doing so, I'd be pissed too. Is it fair to lose by half a wheel to a guy when you worked your ass off the day before to get over mountains and beat the cut-off and a "sprinter only" who can't get over the climbs in time to stay in the race does so only by hitching a ride each time he is getting dropped from the grupetto? No, if that happened it is bullshit.
> 
> If he was doing the normal hold on for 10 seconds while getting water bottles, or while a mechanic legitimately addressed a problem, that is one thing--they let all the riders get away with that (although probably not on climbs where they would watch close). If he was hitching rides because he was getting dropped and he isn't good enough to get over the mountains and beat the cut-off without help, he should no longer be in the race. That is the way the grand tours work. How about we just go get all the best track racers in the world, let them train for sprints only, and have them hitch rides when they need help? Farrar and Rojas and Petacchi have to train to get over the climbs, and that hurts their sprinting power, so why shouldn't Cavendish have to do so?
> 
> ...



Gatorback sayeth the truth


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## DZfan14 (Jul 6, 2009)

Cav got accused of getting towed in the Giro this year as well. I don't know what the truth is, but even for a sprinter, Cav is a terrible climber.

Didn't Cav get DQd for motorpacing/getting towed during the ToC in 2009?

That being said, when Tyler and the other sprinters ***** about Cav like this, they just look like sore losers.


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## Dr_John (Oct 11, 2005)

You stay classy, Tyler. :thumbsup:


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## cq20 (Mar 24, 2007)

Gatorback said:


> Has Cavendish ever even finished a grand tour? Usually he grabs his wins and leaves. Maybe we are now learning why (i.e. he can't get over the climbs with other pro sprinters).


Damn, damn, damn. I saw Cav win on the TdF stage on the Champs-Élysées in 2009 and then again in 2010. As a result of this thread I now realise that either the TdF is not a grand tour or that they hold stages after what I thought whas the final stage and that during these extra stages Cav must have retired.

I have learned so much from the experts who have clearly studied this topic so carefully.


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## erj549 (Jul 26, 2008)

OnTheRivet said:


> It'll be interesting to see if Cavendish is able to find a team that will be built around him when HTC folds. I think a huge part of his success is his leadout, we'll see.


I don't think he'll know what to do with himself when he doesn't have Tony Martin anymore. That guy is just a leadout monster who neutralizes all tomfoolery in the last 2-3k of any sprint stage. I am looking forward to the time where Cavendish has to freelance his own sprints because I think we will see that Cavendish and Farrar have more similar sprinting abilities than we realize now.


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## Sharknose (Aug 9, 2010)

OnTheRivet said:


> It'll be interesting to see if Cavendish is able to find a team that will be built around him when HTC folds. I think a huge part of his success is his leadout, we'll see.


Cav readily acknowledges the importance of his team leadouts in the sprints. He says so frequently, and wants the win as a payoff on the team's efforts to get him to the front of the sprint. 

Same idea as the US Postal/Discovery teams built around Armstrong - dedicate the rest of the team to help one rider. HTC just have stage wins as their goal, not the GC. And they have been spectacularly successful at it, perfecting the art of the leadout train.


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## ZoSoSwiM (Mar 7, 2008)

Lets see... HTC does the majority of the work... They somehow manage to have enough energy left to perform a decent leadout.. Cav is launched and wins.. Tyler tries coming from behind and fails to close the distance because his team can't launch him. Tyler cries like a baby. I'd hate to say it but his win on July 4th was luck.


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## atpjunkie (Mar 23, 2002)

*his win on the 4th*



ZoSoSwiM said:


> Lets see... HTC does the majority of the work... They somehow manage to have enough energy left to perform a decent leadout.. Cav is launched and wins.. Tyler tries coming from behind and fails to close the distance because his team can't launch him. Tyler cries like a baby. I'd hate to say it but his win on July 4th was luck.


was because Garmin had a train that stole the lead from HTC
yesterday he lost the wheel of his lead out (Dean) and had to come from too far back


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## Bullvine (Sep 9, 2009)

I believe it's just a case of heated after the race :cryin:


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## 55x11 (Apr 24, 2006)

erj549 said:


> I don't think he'll know what to do with himself when he doesn't have Tony Martin anymore. That guy is just a leadout monster who neutralizes all tomfoolery in the last 2-3k of any sprint stage. I am looking forward to the time where Cavendish has to freelance his own sprints because I think we will see that Cavendish and Farrar have more similar sprinting abilities than we realize now.


I disagree. I think most of you guys are looking for ways to make Tyler as fast as Cav, but he is clearly not - and to make contorted arguments that would make Tyler or anyone else faster than Cav is a bit delusional. The leadout and the strong team is an important component of the sprint, but on top of that, Cav is just much faster than anyone else right now. It's not like Garmin, with Hushovd, world champion and former green jersey winner, and guys like Millar can't put together a solid leadout - and they try, but Farrar always comes up short.

There are plenty of race that Cavendish won from behind, when someone else jumped and he had to respond quickly. In comparison, Tyler, Greipel, Rojas and Petacchi are not even consistent at participating in the final sprints - some days they are there, some days not. In Stages 7 and 10 Farrar wasn't even in the bunch - he was 3 and 5 minutes behind, respectively.


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## biobanker (Jun 11, 2009)

If HTC does the perfect leadout, as even Cav says that they often do, Cav is going to win 99% of the time. If Cav is on his own and has to fend for himself, he is probably still going to win, it just isnt the almost foregone conclusion that it is now.

I think that Cav has matured a great deal in the last year and after getting their ass reamed by him and HTC on a regular basis, I understand why others whine so much. Take Cav out of the equation and there's a whole lot of stage wins in all of those other guys. They know that they're screwed for many years to come.


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## 196nautique (Sep 23, 2005)

Things I am 99% sure of-
1. Tyler wishes he hadn't said what he did, but was caught up in the moment.
2. If different riders on different teams are saying the same thing, something is fishy.
3. The other sprint teams will make sure that no one extra help climbing hills in the Alps.

Also-
I root for Tyler every time.
Cav is faster than Tyler.
There is currently one person in the world who can say that Tyler isn't a fast sprinter, and I am guessing he doesn't post on RBR forums.


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## QQUIKM3 (Apr 20, 2008)

*Farrar. .*

Is a whining baby. I hope he crashes out.


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## stevesbike (Jun 3, 2002)

QQUIKM3 said:


> Is a whining baby. I hope he crashes out.


it's fine not to like a rider but is it really necessary to hope someone crashes out?


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## penn_rider (Jul 11, 2009)

QQUIKM3 said:


> Is a whining baby. I hope he crashes out.


negative rep point for that...


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## PaleAleYum (Jan 12, 2006)

QQUIKM3 said:


> Is a whining baby. I hope he crashes out.


weaksauce


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## Gnarly 928 (Nov 19, 2005)

I didn't see the interview so I don't know what TF actually said, but Cavendouche does seem to be a little too slow, when he is actually riding all the way through mountain/hill road stages to be where he is in the public eye......a Big Stage Race Sprinting Star!...If he can't make it TO the sprint (without being pushed by people on his team), he should maybe go back to the track and race there. A few stages ago, he worked pretty hard to get to the sprint... and he was beaten fair and square...because he was tired....like everyone else...He even made a rude gesture at the line.....and then thought better of it and just rolled to a stop...

If he just missed the time cut, including all his 'long duration sticky bottle hand-ups'....if he only squeeked past with a minute and a half after a whole day.....think where he would have been without the possible cheating....He'd be headed across the channel to home, tail between his legs.

Sprinters should actually ride to get to the sprint....getting motive help from team cars, especially when you later win the whole stage...that sucks...Maybe he should just get in the car and rest till a few kilometers from the line. "Everybody does it" is not valid...


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## velodog (Sep 26, 2007)

This was posted on another thread. I think that it says a bunch.


http://www.amgentourofcalifornia.com/Archives/2008-archive/stages/stage6.html


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## penn_rider (Jul 11, 2009)

Gnarly, he is just not a stage race sprinter.

Classics and single day wins as well.
Milan – San Remo (2009)
Grote Scheldeprijs (2007, 2008, 2011)

His specialty my be sprinting but the guy can race a bike for more than 100m.

He made it in with the aid and cost of some teammates energy. This is how much they have invested in him, and I would imagine that this is why they are at the tour. 

Of course nobody likes a cheater, but unless it is proved that he held on to a car in this race, all other rider/whiners need to keep their cake holes shut. Farrar apologized for is statement/allegation and is moving on. I respect him for that. For the rest they need to pour that frustration into their legs and make something happen...


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## dlhillius (Mar 21, 2011)

QQUIKM3 said:


> Is a whining baby. I hope he crashes out.


Hope he gets his a$$ handed to him in a sprint or has to abandon the race cuz of a flared up hemorrhoid but _crash_? 

Uncool man.....don't wish that on anyone.


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## albert owen (Jul 7, 2008)

Maybe if Farrar's Garmin Girls spent a bit more time competing with HTC rather than looking for ways to lean (literally - watch the finishes) on the HTC Train he might have more of a chance.

I am hoping that Cav can keep the nucleus of his team around him for a while yet. Martin, Goss, Renshaw et al, are simple brilliant in the way they chase down breaks with virtually no help from other teams. 
If Cav joins Sky it will be a big mistake, He'll definitely win less often, though even then he'll almost always beat Farrar when they meet up. Imagine! Sky v Garmin = girlo, girlo.


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## Gatorback (Jul 11, 2009)

cq20 said:


> Damn, damn, damn. I saw Cav win on the TdF stage on the Champs-Élysées in 2009 and then again in 2010. As a result of this thread I now realise that either the TdF is not a grand tour or that they hold stages after what I thought whas the final stage and that during these extra stages Cav must have retired.
> 
> I have learned so much from the experts who have clearly studied this topic so carefully.


I asked a question. Why don't you just answer it instead of being a ********?

My statement that he usually collects his wins and leaves is true I believe. 

More importantly, I have never suggested I'm an expert on the Tour de France or any other bike race. However, you don't have to be an expert to understand the basics. And cheating is something most of us learn about in kindergarten. If he is cheating by holding on to cars to get over climbs, he shouldn't be in the race. I don't care who it is--if they cheat that way they should not be in the race.

Was he hitching rides or not? Do Farrar and Rojas and other sprinters have legitimate complaints? Or are they just whining? 

How about sticking to the issue.


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## _LCW_ (Jul 17, 2011)

stevesbike said:


> it's fine not to like a rider but is it really necessary to hope someone crashes out?


Only if it's Contador lol


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## 55x11 (Apr 24, 2006)

dlhillius said:


> Hope he gets his a$$ handed to him in a sprint or has to abandon the race cuz of a flared up hemorrhoid but _crash_?
> 
> Uncool man.....don't wish that on anyone.


don't wish a crash to my worst enemy. Tyler needs to shut up and win the final stage in Paris.


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## cq20 (Mar 24, 2007)

Gatorback said:


> I asked a question. Why don't you just answer it instead of being a ********?
> 
> My statement that he usually collects his wins and leaves is true I believe.
> 
> ...


So, you feel you have sufficient knowledge to state that


> he usually collects his wins and leaves


yet your knowledge does not extend to the fact that the TdF is a grand tour and that Cav has finished it twice (and others as mentioned above)

Hmmm.


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## Gatorback (Jul 11, 2009)

cq20 said:


> So, you feel you have sufficient knowledge to state that
> yet your knowledge does not extend to the fact that the TdF is a grand tour and that Cav has finished it twice (and others as mentioned above)
> 
> Hmmm.


You tell me--how many grand tours has he competed in and how many has he completed?

If he has competed in more than he has completed, my statement is correct. Am I right? You tell me. 

Back to the real issue. Did he cheat by holding on to cars or not? That is the key question that people ought to be addressing. He is a great sprinter. But if he can't meet the time deadlines without hitching rides, he doesn't belong in the race with the sprinters who can meet them without cheating.


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## Smallfurry (Mar 7, 2008)

Cycling is a team sport. HTC spend most of the stage doing all of the work, Set a blistering pace over the last 5km to secure the bunch finish. Execute a faultless lead out train up to last few hundred meters. Then send their fastest accelerator off the back for the win.

Garmin, Sky, Lampre etc. Sit in the bunch all day, and send a man or two out with a sprinter, a km or so from the finish, and lose.

I fail to see any injustice here.


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## Smallfurry (Mar 7, 2008)

If anyone should be moaning it should be Gilbert. He went on a nicely timed mini break. Only to be left with two riders whom refuse to help him escape HTC clutches.


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## cq20 (Mar 24, 2007)

Gatorback said:


> You tell me--how many grand tours has he competed in and how many has he completed?
> 
> If he has competed in more than he has completed, my statement is correct. Am I right? You tell me.


So... you made your statement/assertion without any data to support it i.e. it was, by your own admission, a completely baseless accusation.

Others may have data that supports or counters your accusation and I am keen to hear their views based on verifiable data. That is how this topic could progress rather than spouting unsupported assertions based on what can only be prejudice.


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## AJL (Jul 9, 2009)

albert owen said:


> I am hoping that Cav can keep the nucleus of his team around him for a while yet. Martin, Goss, Renshaw et al, are simple brilliant in the way they chase down breaks with virtually no help from other teams.


Plus Pate and Bak who drive at the front of the peloton like machines...



> If Cav joins Sky it will be a big mistake, He'll definitely win less often, though even then he'll almost always beat Farrar when they meet up. Imagine! Sky v Garmin = girlo, girlo.


Unless Sky re-constitutes the teams to lead out Cav, he win ratio will drop and Tyler (who is just as fast as Cav on his good days) will see more wins. But I think Highroad will have a sponsor by the end of the Tour, or shortly after, and will continue on.


As far as the bad blood with Tyler and Cav the other day - it's over. They were both interviewed today and both are cool about it.

Fini.


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## dlhillius (Mar 21, 2011)

55x11 said:


> don't wish a crash to my worst enemy. Tyler needs to shut up and win the final stage in Paris.


Hope you aren't thinking I wished Cav ill..... I hate seeing crashes regardless of who's in them.


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