# 853 steel or True Temper OX platinum?



## thrmaln (Feb 16, 2004)

Hello All,

I have an odd question. I just received my 2004 Lemond Buenos Aires this afternoon and I noticed something odd. It seems as though Lemond has switched its tubeset fairly recently from Reynolds 853 to the True Temper OX Platinum. The bike I test rode last week, was Reynolds 853 tubing but the one I got has the True Temper Tubing. Was this a cost cutting method or an improvement? Is one tubeset better than the other, ie. pros and cons between each? Since this is my first modern roadbike in a long time, I am sure I will never know or appreciate the difference between either anyway. I am just more interested in why the change may have been made. I plan to contact Lemond tomorrow.

Best regards,

Marc Webster


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## rollinrob (Dec 8, 2002)

thrmaln said:


> Hello All,
> 
> I have an odd question. I just received my 2004 Lemond Buenos Aires this afternoon and I noticed something odd. It seems as though Lemond has switched its tubeset fairly recently from Reynolds 853 to the True Temper OX Platinum. The bike I test rode last week, was Reynolds 853 tubing but the one I got has the True Temper Tubing. Was this a cost cutting method or an improvement? Is one tubeset better than the other, ie. pros and cons between each? Since this is my first modern roadbike in a long time, I am sure I will never know or appreciate the difference between either anyway. I am just more interested in why the change may have been made. I plan to contact Lemond tomorrow.
> 
> ...


I was in Cambria Bike Auburn a couple of weeks ago and asked the same question to the Trek rep who was in the the shop at the time. He basically told me that the availabilty of the True Temper tubing was more consistent and that they were having troubles getting enough of the Reynolds to supply the demand for their bikes. I have a feeling that it was a matter of pricing, I think that the True Temper OX may be cheaper for trek to buy large quantitys....For what its worth my Waterford is partially made of True Temper OX. It is good stuff and I doubt you would be able to notice a difference.


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## scrublover (Oct 1, 2002)

pretty much the same take on an air hardened steel, just from two different companies. from what i understand, they should ride/feel about the same. i have two mtbs, one with ox, one with 853. ride/feel the same. granted, big fat tires are likely masking any small differences. 

it's good stuff.


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## MR_GRUMPY (Aug 21, 2002)

True Temper OX Plat is offered in more tube sizes, but if you had two 1 1/8 top tubes side by side, there would be little difference.


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## EMR (Apr 5, 2002)

*04 Buenos Aires*

From what I understand both are great tubesets with similar 'air hardening qualities'.

Post a short review after you take that bike for a spin. I saw one at the LBS and was totally amazed at Trek/Lemond's design and combination of materials on this frame.


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## thrmaln (Feb 16, 2004)

Hey Guys,

Thanks for the replies. I called a tech at Lemond and he said that they switched over to True Temper because true temper has made some great strides in their tubing over the last few years and it is just as good as the 853. He also said that another factor in their decision is that the True temper tubing withstands rust much more than the 853. I am a design engineer and looked up the specs of both tubes. I was amazed just how strong these tubes are. The TT tubing has a ultimate yield strength (amount of pressure required to induce fatigue) of 217ksi (217,000 psi). That is amazing. I use high tech alloy stainless steels in hydraulic fittings that have a yield around 230 to 280ksi and it is insanely expensive. It is amazing to see that the steel tubing we use is just as high tech and is affordable enough to build bikes from.

Thanks again,

Marc Webster


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## froze (Sep 15, 2002)

Good job you answered your own question. My understanding is that the two tube sets are very similar in the fatigue area you quoted with the 853 around 200ksi and the OX around 215 (or 217)ksi...one would never notice the difference. The True Temper is a seamed tube whereas the Reynolds is seamless...again nothing of any concern of one vs the other. I have not heard about the rust issue, but my understanding is both are treated with zinc that prevents rust anyway, if you were real concern and going to lose sleep over the rust issue you could treat the inside of the tubing with Frame Savor to enhance rust prevention. Both are excellent frames, but anyone's top line frame today is going to be a superior product than what it was just 5 years ago. If my 531 steel frame that was never rust treated, is 20 years old with over 140,000 miles on it is still going strong today with no signs of rust, then these new modern frames should outperform mine!


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## al0 (Jan 24, 2003)

froze said:


> Good job you answered your own question. My understanding is that the two tube sets are very similar in the fatigue area you quoted with the 853 around 200ksi and the OX around 215 (or 217)ksi...one would never notice the difference.


Few monthes ago I have seen somewhere (maz be it was even link form this board) test results for several tzpes of tubests, including 853 and TT. (53 had somewhat higher mechanical properties. I don't remeber results to the point, but it was something around 230ksi for 853 and 215 for TT. Other charactestics have roughly the same ration.

But anyway both are very good.


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