# Leipheimer gets 5th overall!



## izibo (Jul 2, 2004)

Yay! Levi just beat out Vino by 2 seconds to get 5th overall... I am sure he is going to be incredibly happy!

Congrats Levi


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## Alpedhuez55 (Jun 29, 2005)

The difference between 5th and 7th are only 8 seconds and 30 to 8th. I would not be suprised if Vino goes after time bonuses in intermediate sprints. Look for a break a couple of KMs before the sprints to try to catch the big sprinters of guard.


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## Mosovich (Feb 3, 2004)

*Don't get to happy yet...*

Vino is a cagy rider. Levi better stick to him like the shorts on his arse! This to me would be crushing if Levi didn't get 5th. He said in his diary he was getting tired. I think the TT showed today that he is. I though for sure he'd really stick it to Mancebo. Maybe if it'd been a flat one, then maybe that would've suited him better. I was disappointed they didn't show or speak of him until he crossed the line.


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## Alpedhuez55 (Jun 29, 2005)

Mosovich said:


> Vino is a cagy rider. Levi better stick to him like the shorts on his arse! This to me would be crushing if Levi didn't get 5th. He said in his diary he was getting tired. I think the TT showed today that he is. I though for sure he'd really stick it to Mancebo. Maybe if it'd been a flat one, then maybe that would've suited him better. I was disappointed they didn't show or speak of him until he crossed the line.


He took the first time bonus. Levi cannot let him get another. The gap is 0.77 of a second. Vino looked pretty spent after the last one. I doubt he can hold off the sprinters in the last two, but you never know

How about a dark horse. Maybe Rasmussen can take the final field sprint and jump from 7th to 5th overall with the time bonus.


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## Alpedhuez55 (Jun 29, 2005)

*Vino was robbed*

They cancelled the time bonus for the rest of the stage. I am glad Levi is going to end up 5th.

Way to take the last bit of excitement in the GC away though.


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## Tig (Feb 9, 2004)

Vino robbed? LOL 

I respect Vino except for one major character flaw, which shows up during these situations. A nice label would be to call him "crafty", but a "cheesy opportunist" is more accurate. We've seen it every year he's ridden the TdF. 

Yes, racing is racing, and he doesn't cheat. But he shows absolutely no class when he tries to gain 1 GC spot on the last day in a non-time trial stage. Professional riders with class and honor never pull this kind of [email protected] (except for when Mancebo would try to sprint in front of Rasmussen for KOM points even though he or one of his teammates weren't a contender for the KOM jersey). Those that do, lose all respect from their fellow racers.

Vino has obviously been posturing for his next contract. By doing so, he shows that he isn't a very dedicated team rider. It was either Phil or Paul that said about his attacks in the mountains, "The only person chasing down Vinocourov has been Jan Ullrich."


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## ajoc_prez (Jul 14, 2004)

izibo said:


> Yay! Levi just beat out Vino by 2 seconds to get 5th overall... I am sure he is going to be incredibly happy!
> 
> Congrats Levi


Not so fast, they just said that Vino gets the time bonus for the stage win... so that should put him ahead of Levi. This could be interesting...


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## MaRider (Mar 21, 2002)

Tig said:


> Vino robbed? LOL
> 
> I respect Vino except for one major character flaw, which shows up during these situations. A nice label would be to call him "crafty", but a "cheesy opportunist" is more accurate. We've seen it every year he's ridden the TdF.
> 
> ...


There's no rule against getting time bonuses on the last day. Why would the organizers put time bonuses on the course then, huh, Einstein?

Vino is the most exciting rider in this year's Tour. Maybe he wasn't the strongest GC contender, not even among top 3, but he has the desire and the spirit of competitor.

As to his team - it's not his problem that every time he would attack, his own team would chase him down. If Ulle and Kloden have some axes to grind with Vino, it's their problem. They could have used Vino's attacks to their own advantage, by making others chase him and expand energy, but instead they decided to settle their score against Vino. 

I feel that a lot of bad blood in Telekom was when the team continued to support Ulle instead of Vino in early parts of the Tour, despite Ulle's lack of top form.

I hope Vino finds a better situation for himself elsewhere. It is a pleasure to watch him race.


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## Alpedhuez55 (Jun 29, 2005)

Tig said:


> I respect Vino except for one major character flaw, which shows up during these situations. A nice label would be to call him "crafty", but a "cheesy opportunist" is more accurate. We've seen it every year he's ridden the TdF.
> 
> Yes, racing is racing, and he doesn't cheat. But he shows absolutely no class when he tries to gain 1 GC spot on the last day in a non-time trial stage. Professional riders with class and honor never pull this kind of [email protected] (except for when Mancebo would try to sprint in front of Rasmussen for KOM points even though he or one of his teammates weren't a contender for the KOM jersey). Those that do, lose all respect from their fellow racers.


So what is he supposed to do? Not bother to race for a win in the final stage win because there is a chance he could gain a position in the GC on the final day? I do not think any of his tactics are "cheesey". He is an agressive rider who finds ways to win races. Though he needs to tone down that agressiveness if he ever wants to win the TDF. Maybe if he has a team riding for him he can afford to do that. 

Sure he is not much of a team rider. But T-Mobile is a trainwreck of a team with too many heads. 

He won the stage with a great attack. Though I wanted Leipheimer to hold onto his position, if his time bonus does stand, Vino deserves fifth place.


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## Tig (Feb 9, 2004)

MaRider said:


> Why would the organizers put time bonuses on the course then, huh, Einstein?


No need to try insulting me just because you don't have enough of an open mind to see past your own beliefs. Besides, you wouldn't do very well in IQ comparisons!


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## carlos (May 26, 2004)

no class? ask hincapie about class, not vinokourov.  

Overall - (Finalized) 
1. Lance Armstrong (USA), Discovery Channel 
2. Ivan Basso (I), CSC, at 4:40 
3. Jan Ullrich (G), T-Mobile, at 6:21 
4. Francisco Mancebo (Sp), Illes Balears, at 9:59 
5. Alexandre Vinokourov (Kaz), T-Mobile, at 11:01 
6. Levi Leipheimer (USA), Gerolsteiner, at 11:21 
7. Mickael Rasmussen (Dk), Rabobank, at 11:33 
8. Cadel Evans (Aus), Davitamon-Lotto, at 11:55 
9. Floyd Landis (USA), Phonak, at 12:44 
10. Oscar Pereiro Sio (Sp), Phonak, at 16:


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## Iwannapodiumgirl (Jun 26, 2002)

*you said it...*



Tig said:


> Yes, racing is racing, and he doesn't cheat.


its all part of professional racing... if Levi had jumped would you still say it was the "wrong" thing to do?


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## moschika (Feb 1, 2004)

if they had decided to keep the time bonuses, i would bet levi would have done whatever he could to keep his fifth place. but if you're under the impression your placing is secure why follow anyone?

i think the refs are wrong to change the rules after the fact.


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## Mosovich (Feb 3, 2004)

*Levi got shaft..*

you can't say there is no time bonus then after the finish, say there is. That's BS! They said once they passed the line game over, then change it? Come on! Now I'll admit, Levi should've been more attentive earlier and sent some guys to take the sprint, but after that, I call total BS.

I just hope his team doesn't criticize him for this. In my book, Levi is 5th. BUT, I guess if I was to lose to anyone, I'd rather it be a rider with passion and tanicity like Vino. I wonder what Levi's thoughts are?


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## mtbykr (Feb 16, 2004)

*Well*

Levi did send his "sprinter" guys to the front at the begining to make sure vino didn't get any more time. Then they announced that everything was set in stone for GC, and levi and his team backed off and let the sprinters have the day. now after it's all over the judges change their mind AFTER the race is complete----------that's BS anyway you cut it!


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## rmp (Aug 25, 2004)

could he (Levi) have done anything about it anyway?

Hell, the Gerolsteiner boys knew that he was at risk going into the first intermediate sprint, and even 4 of them teamed up couldn't do anything with Vino. At that point, all he (Vino) needed was one more sprint bonus ahead of Levi, who obviously had no answer for him.

Things MAY have been different had the bonuses been knowingly intact at the end, but Vino was so damn aggressive - I kinda think he would've pipped Levi anyway. Those sprinters didn't give a crap about time bonuses at the finish - they wanted the win. Vino got them all. Levi would have had no chance.

That being said, I do completely 100% agree that it is pretty stupid for the Tour Organizers to pull the bonuses off the table, and then reinstate them. No excuse for that.

rmp


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## artnshel (Jun 29, 2004)

Definitly BS when the organizers flip flop. It was a nice win for Vino but Levi got screwed.


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## botto (Jul 22, 2005)

*were you watching the stage or reading it?*



mtbykr said:


> levi and his team backed off and let the sprinters have the day.


actually, if you were watching the stage, then you would have noticed that Levi was glued to Vino's wheel on the Champs-Elysees.


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## wipeout (Jun 6, 2005)

artnshel said:


> Definitly BS when the organizers flip flop. It was a nice win for Vino but Levi got screwed.


Duh, remember this is the French we are talking about, lest ye forget.


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## Utah CragHopper (May 9, 2003)

wipeout said:


> Duh, remember this is the French we are talking about, lest ye forget.


Is using a smiley face supposed to make you less of a bigot?


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## rePhil (Jun 20, 2002)

*1st sprint*

Was it at the first sprint where Vino went for it dragging 4 Gerolsteiners? It was interesting that TM didn't give him a leadout to try to get the bonus...the one he got on his own.Payback time I guess.


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## wipeout (Jun 6, 2005)

Utah CragHopper said:


> Is using a smiley face supposed to make you less of a bigot?


CrapHopper, you need to get a life.


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## ClimbElYunque (Jun 21, 2005)

*5th or 6th whocares!*

It really does not matter that much. Better is a podium position
and Best is to win of course, specially for GC Guys like
Levi and Vino. Nobody remembers who got
5th or 6th. For Vino I think Winning the stage was 1000 times
more important than the time bonus. And I don't think
that Levi would have risk himself to save 5th by getting
aggresive up front and get into a crash for almost no
reward. If was that important the organizer would have
not attempted to eliminate the time bonuses in the 
first place.

Quiz: Who got 5th last year?
(Answer bellow)









Ans: Azevedo.


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## Utah CragHopper (May 9, 2003)

wipeout said:


> CrapHopper, you need to get a life.


I noticed you didn't answer the question. So here it is again. When you make bigotted comments do you think you somehow make yourself look less prejudiced by putting a smiley afterward? Does the emoticon make it all okay?

Maybe next you can make some choice postings about jews and african americans. Be sure to include a smiley face. That will make it alright.


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## al0 (Jan 24, 2003)

Alpedhuez55 said:


> They cancelled the time bonus for the rest of the stage. I am glad Levi is going to end up 5th.
> 
> Way to take the last bit of excitement in the GC away though.


Sorry, but you have misundestood, bonuses have been cancelled only for second intermediate sprint, not got final sprint (and timegaps were taken on first crossibg of final line)see my post in another thread:
_If you woud look into the..._


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## Lifelover (Jul 8, 2004)

*The French...*



Utah CragHopper said:


> I noticed you didn't answer the question. So here it is again. When you make bigotted comments do you think you somehow make yourself look less prejudiced by putting a smiley afterward? Does the emoticon make it all okay?
> 
> Maybe next you can make some choice postings about jews and african americans. Be sure to include a smiley face. That will make it alright.


...Aint worth Sh!t

Always have and always will be a bunch of dumb A$$es.

Smiley face intentionally left out

On a more serious note it has just been reported that the French government announced yesterday that it has raised its terror alert level from "Run" to "Hide".

The only two higher levels in France are "Surrender" and "Collaborate".

The rise was precipitated by a recent fire which destroyed France's
white flag factory, effectively paralysing their military.


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## grampy bone (Feb 9, 2005)

I think Vino deserved it. He put in a super effort today and no one could stop him. We're not talking about the yellow jersey here anyway. Maybe it is "old school" to not disrupt the GC on the last day, but this IS racing, isn't it? I'd prefer to see some action all the way to the finish rather than watch a peleton coast around the course. This has nothing to do with class. 

Also, I thought the comment about the French was just a joke. He was not about someone's skin color, or race, or sexual preference. Lighten up. If I got offended by every joke about Americans or G. Bush, I would walk around mad all day. 

      .....Here are some smiley's.....all better now?


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## botto (Jul 22, 2005)

*go eat some 'freedom fries' you ignorant schmuck.*

.....



Lifelover said:


> ...Aint worth Sh!t
> 
> Always have and always will be a bunch of dumb A$$es.
> 
> Smiley face intentionally left out


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## MikeMo (Jul 3, 2005)

ClimbElYunque said:


> It really does not matter that much. Better is a podium position
> and Best is to win of course, specially for GC Guys like
> Levi and Vino.


I think I heard the difference between 5th a 6th is $28000, I know I'd be pretty upset if I got flip flopped outta' that amount of money


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## Utah CragHopper (May 9, 2003)

Lifelover said:


> ...Aint worth Sh!t
> 
> Always have and always will be a bunch of dumb A$$es.


Shouldn't you be at a cross burning.


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## botto (Jul 22, 2005)

grampy bone said:


> If I got offended by every joke about G. Bush, I would walk around mad all day.


why? don't you have a sense of humor?


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## wipeout (Jun 6, 2005)

Utah CragHopper said:


> I noticed you didn't answer the question. So here it is again. When you make bigotted comments do you think you somehow make yourself look less prejudiced by putting a smiley afterward? Does the emoticon make it all okay?
> 
> Maybe next you can make some choice postings about jews and african americans. Be sure to include a smiley face. That will make it alright.


Why? Don't you have a sense of humor?


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## Utah CragHopper (May 9, 2003)

wipeout said:


> Why? Don't you have a sense of humor?


The last refuge of a bigot: Claiming it was a joke.

I must be a little thick. Why don't you explain the joke.


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## mtbykr (Feb 16, 2004)

*Ok*



Utah CragHopper said:


> Is using a smiley face supposed to make you less of a bigot?


Well i took his comment as a joke, and then i saw the smiley face and that only added to it that it was intented as a joke. and if you look up the meaning of the word bigot it is: 

a prejudiced person who is intolerant of any opinions differing from his own.



So by his original comments, he doesn't qualify.


Oh, an botto i did watch the stage. however my daughter was watching tv first so i didn't come in this am until they were about in paris. phil ligget statet that levi had sent his guys to the front to make sure that vino didn't get any time bonuses. then he said that the gc had been settled becuase of the weather and all of the gc contenders had dropped to the back of the peleton to stay out of the sprinters way. having heard this is the reason for my earlier comment!


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## MaRider (Mar 21, 2002)

Tig said:


> No need to try insulting me just because you don't have enough of an open mind to see past your own beliefs. Besides, you wouldn't do very well in IQ comparisons!


Sorry, was meant to be in jest.

Hey, what do you mean - my IQ?! What's wrong with IQ of 37? Or was it my SAT? 

Oh yeah, it's my resting heart rate!


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## Frank Tuesday (Jun 1, 2002)

I was confused at the time bonus situation as well, but of course my only source of info was from the OLN team. It could be that THEY misunderstood and told us the wrong thing. Does anyone have an official statement from the Tour Organizers about the time bonuses? Here it is from the official tour website live updates, letour.fr 

_16:29 - No Time Bonuses For 2nd Sprint

The race jury has just announced that there will not be any time bonuses awarded for the 2nd intermediate sprint; only points.
This is a modification to the normal rule._ 

Phil and Paul got it wrong. Maybe Gerolsteiner misunderstood as well.


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## Tig (Feb 9, 2004)

You mean that IQ is supposed to be high? Damn, I always thought it was like golf scores or resting heart rates where *lower is better*!


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## grampy bone (Feb 9, 2005)

botto said:


> why? don't you have a sense of humor?


Yes, I do, that's why I don't go walking around mad all the time. Did you not see the IF at the beginning of my sentence?


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## Guest (Jul 25, 2005)

wipeout said:


> CrapHopper, you need to get a life.


Actually, he is right.

Your comment was off base.


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## Spunout (Aug 12, 2002)

Vino earned it, attacking all day. It is a race. You don't attack the MJ, but the other spots, sprints, are up for grabs. It is a race.
.


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## Tig (Feb 9, 2004)

carlos said:


> no class? ask hincapie about class, not vinokourov.


Hincapie was under team orders to sit on the break... nothing abnormal about that. But remember, once he and Pereiro dropped the rest at 5K to go, Hincapie worked with him and took turns for them to stay away. Yes, he played the cat and mouse game, but that is also quite typical, in not exactly honorable, with a breakaway group during the last 1 or 2 kilo's.

I can understand Pereiro's anger after driving the break the whole time. None of this is in the same league as Vino's, though!


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## Live Steam (Feb 4, 2004)

I'm saving this post. Gotta love it! Some people have no sense of humor!


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## tricycletalent (Apr 2, 2005)

Utah CragHopper said:


> Is using a smiley face supposed to make you less of a bigot?


Sure it does. It is called "playing with prejudice" You, however, could just go to utah's board for grumpy mormons and start a thread on ethics there. Quarreling fool.


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## Wiaruz (Jan 2, 2003)

I think Vino deserved it too. He made the tour with his aggressive style, won stages and attacked in the mountains, Levi just followed the wheels. I don't recall him attacking at all.


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## Frank Tuesday (Jun 1, 2002)

Tig said:


> Hincapie was under team orders to sit on the break... nothing abnormal about that. But remember, once he and Pereiro dropped the rest at 5K to go, Hincapie worked with him and took turns for them to stay away. Yes, he played the cat and mouse game, but that is also quite typical, in not exactly honorable, with a breakaway group during the last 1 or 2 kilo's.
> 
> I can understand Pereiro's anger after driving the break the whole time. None of this is in the same league as Vino's, though!


Take off the Disco glasses. Hincapie worked him alright. Sat on his wheel and let Pereiro do the work and took the win. The only time I remember seeing Hincapie in front of Pereiro is in the last km.


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## shabbasuraj (May 14, 2005)

Levi, got punked by Vino.... Live with it people...

The way I see it....it was 1 on 1 as they approached that time bonus, and Vino beat him to the line plain and simple....Levi also had 3 teamates approaching that time bonus, and Vino held them all down...


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