# H Plus Son Hydra



## Enoch562

Anybody got thier hands on them yet?


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## dcgriz

Waiting for feedback on these as well. They appear to be the Archetype without brake tracks and with a tubeless well. Weight checks ok in my mind.


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## Jay Strongbow

dcgriz said:


> Waiting for feedback on these as well. They appear to be the *Archetype* without brake tracks and with a *tubeless* well. Weight checks ok in my mind.


I'm just glad they came out with a new rim for this instead of fcking up the Archetype for those of us who use tubes and think the archetype is perfect as is.


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## dcgriz

Jay Strongbow said:


> I'm just glad they came out with a new rim for this instead of fcking up the Archetype for those of us who use tubes and think the archetype is perfect as is.


Totally agree.


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## Lombard

Looking at dimensions, the Hydra is a bit wider and shallower than the Archetype. It also doesn't have that unique sharp point at the center that the Archetype does, but more of a round.

Products | H PLUS SON


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## dgaddis1

I'm really interested in this rim, but saw some chatter on Instagram of tubeless blow-offs. That was a while ago, not sure if later batches fixed it or not.


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## Enoch562

I'm just diggin the 25 wide part. It wouldn't bother me if they came in around 460+


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## oleritter

*I Do*



Enoch562 said:


> I'm just diggin the 25 wide part. It wouldn't bother me if they came in around 460+


They are 24.5mm wide and 460 ish. I have a pair built and in service. I ordered a couple more pair this morning.


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## Enoch562

oleritter said:


> They are 24.5mm wide and 460 ish. I have a pair built and in service. I ordered a couple more pair this morning.


Where di you get yours?


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## oleritter

Mine came from Italy.


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## oleritter

dgaddis1 said:


> I'm really interested in this rim, but saw some chatter on Instagram of tubeless blow-offs. That was a while ago, not sure if later batches fixed it or not.


Can you share more about this? Or where to find?


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## Enoch562

BHS has them in stock now.


https://www.bikehubstore.com/h-plus-son-hydra-p/hydra.htm


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## oleritter

Enoch562 said:


> BHS has them in stock now.
> 
> 
> https://www.bikehubstore.com/h-plus-son-hydra-p/hydra.htm


Cat's out of the bag.


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## Zurichman

oleritter said:


> They are 24.5mm wide and 460 ish. I have a pair built and in service. I ordered a couple more pair this morning.



So did you build them up or have somebody build them up for you. Did you build them as a road tire or gravel or off road tire? How where they built?

Thanks
Zman


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## oleritter

Hi Zman,

I think we have spoken in another forum.

Mill City Cycle built these for me, and I am Mill City Cycle. Mine are built with DT Swiss 350 Straight Pull Centerlock hubs and Wheelsmith Straight Pull DB15 spokes. I have 32mm Panaracer Gravel King SK's installed tubeless.

Wheels are working out great. I've done a few events on them, and a fair amount of training and riding miles. A small branch that rode up into my spokes knocked the rear wheel out of true once, but it straightened right out again. 

My build is 24/28h and I am 200 lbs. You should have me build you a pair.


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## MudSnow

I just built my first pair of Hydras. These are some really nice rims! They are round and true, the weld line is invisible, and the decals are permanently attached, like paint. Comparable to Belgium+ at half the price.

Bitex hubs and Sapim spokes.


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## Lombard

MudSnow said:


> I just built my first pair. These are some really nice rims! They are round and true, the weld line is invisible, and the decals are permanently attached, like paint. Comparable to Belgium+ at half the price.


H+ Son rims are quite nice looking (when new) and seem to have a good reputation for being robust. Their two downsides if you use rim brakes are:

1) Narrow brake track.

2) Finished brake track will look ugly for around 500-1000 miles until brakes wear through to bare aluminum.


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## Zurichman

Lombard said:


> H+ Son rims are quite nice looking (when new) and seem to have a good reputation for being robust. Their two downsides if you use rim brakes are:
> 
> 1) Narrow brake track.
> 
> 2) Finished brake track will look ugly for around 500-1000 miles until brakes wear through to bare aluminum.


I haven't been on this site very long Lombard but from what I have seen you are very knowledgeable. If you were to recommend a mid price wheel set built up for a gravel bike and a 200 lb. rider what rim/hubs/and spoke would you recommend. I guess 24/28

Thanks
Zman


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## Marc

Zurichman said:


> I haven't been on this site very long Lombard but from what I have seen you are very knowledgeable. If you were to recommend a mid price wheel set built up for a gravel bike and a 200 lb. rider what rim/hubs/and spoke would you recommend. I guess 24/28
> 
> Thanks
> Zman



There's "gravel" and then there's "gravel". There's hard pack MMR or flint roads all the way to conditions like 2" deep pea gravel hell.


200# and offroad. Disc brake? If so I'd get Shimano M8000 XT hubs, say Hydra (or your favorite rims in your budget), 32/32 spoking 3X of your favorite spokes. $300USD in parts for wheels you'd need to hit with a hammer or car to harm.


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## Zurichman

Marc said:


> There's "gravel" and then there's "gravel". There's hard pack MMR or flint roads all the way to conditions like 2" deep pea gravel hell.
> 
> 
> 200# and offroad. Disc brake? If so I'd get Shimano M8000 XT hubs, say Hydra (or your favorite rims in your budget), 32/32 spoking 3X of your favorite spokes. $300USD in parts for wheels you'd need to hit with a hammer or car to harm.



Thanks Marc I guess if you are building bulletproof wheels weight isn't an issue. I guess they would still be lighter than my stock wheels though that came with my 2016 Raleigh Tamland 1. I see lots of discussion though on wheel build up weight. Any guesses or estimates on how much these would weigh?

Zman


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## Lombard

I would agree with Marc except that the Shimano M8000 XT hubs, while great hubs, will only work if your bike is either a QR or 15mm thru-axle. If you have 12mm thru-axles as some gravel bikes do, you will have to choose something else. The White Industries CLD (for centerlock) or XMR (for 6-bolt) are the next best I would go with. Personally, I would avoid anything with an alloy freehub, which includes just about any brand of hub not mentioned in this paragraph. At 200lbs., if you have any strength, your cassette will eventually gouge your freehub and cause shifting problems. If severe enough, you may even have great difficulty separating the two.


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## Zurichman

Lombard said:


> I would agree with Marc except that the Shimano M8000 XT hubs, while great hubs, will only work if your bike is either a QR or 15mm thru-axle. If you have 12mm thru-axles as some gravel bikes do, you will have to choose something else. The White Industries CLD (for centerlock) or XMR (for 6-bolt) are the next best I would go with. Personally, I would avoid anything with an alloy freehub, which includes just about any brand of hub not mentioned in this paragraph. At 200lbs., if you have any strength, your cassette will eventually gouge your freehub and cause shifting problems. If severe enough, you may even have great difficulty separating the two.


Well right now my 2016 Raleigh Tamland 1 does have the quick release wheels. They also have the 6 bolt Spyre mechanical disk brake system on them. I guess if I am getting a set of wheels built up I may as go with the centerlock set up as that seems to be what everyone is going to that. How much better is the White Industries CLD hub over the Shimano and would they work on my bike then since I have Quick Release? Thanks

Zman


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## Lombard

Zurichman said:


> Well right now my 2016 Raleigh Tamland 1 does have the quick release wheels. They also have the 6 bolt Spyre mechanical disk brake system on them. I guess if I am getting a set of wheels built up I may as go with the centerlock set up as that seems to be what everyone is going to that. How much better is the White Industries CLD hub over the Shimano and would they work on my bike then since I have Quick Release? Thanks
> 
> Zman


I would not say the WI is better than Shimano. They are probably equally good. WI are definitely more expensive. I was just mentioning WI as a good alternative if you couldn't use Shimano due to 12mm thru-axles. WI works with all three - QR, 12mm TA and 15mm TA.


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## Lombard

Shimano XT does have a QR version.


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## MudSnow

Brake track? Hydra has no brake track!

The Hydra | H PLUS SON

The Hydra
Weight: 455 grams
Material: G609 Alloy
Height: 23 mm
Width: 25 mm
Size: 700c
Joint: Welded
Tubeless Compatible
For Disc Brakes
ERD: 592 (actual)


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## MudSnow

Lombard said:


> Personally, I would avoid anything with an alloy freehub, which includes just about any brand of hub not mentioned in this paragraph. At 200lbs., if you have any strength, your cassette will eventually gouge your freehub and cause shifting problems. If severe enough, you may even have great difficulty separating the two.


Bitex is now installing stainless steel splines on the hubs from BHS to prevent that gouging, and they also have available solid steel freehubs, great for heavier riders.


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## Lombard

MudSnow said:


> Brake track? Hydra has no brake track!
> 
> The Hydra | H PLUS SON
> 
> The Hydra
> Weight: 455 grams
> Material: G609 Alloy
> Height: 23 mm
> Width: 25 mm
> Size: 700c
> Joint: Welded
> Tubeless Compatible
> For Disc Brakes
> ERD: 589


I stand CORRECTED!  It is the Archetypes that have a brake track.


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## MudSnow

ERD is advertised 589, but that results in spokes about 2mm short.
I am using 592 for calculations to get the correct spoke length now.

Weight is also closer to 480g. They must have increased the thickness of the spoke bed.


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## oleritter

*Hydra ERD*



MudSnow said:


> ERD is advertised 589, but that results in spokes about 2mm short.
> I am using 592 for calculations to get the correct spoke length now.
> 
> Weight is also closer to 480g. They must have increased the thickness of the spoke bed.


I'm glad you posted this.

I wound up with too short spokes on the last Hydras I built also. I made a note, but it's kind of slipped my mind and I probably wouldn't have remembered the next time I built a pair. 

I just checked my calculations, and using 591mm ERD results in the length spokes I wound up using. I also noticed the weight had changed a little.

Did you buy from BHS? We should ask them to re-check the Hydra ERD, and update it if needed. 

They are nice rims. I'm a little disappointed they weigh a little more now, though.


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## Lombard

MudSnow said:


> ERD is advertised 589, but that results in spokes about 2mm short.
> I am using 592 for calculations to get the correct spoke length now.


Just another reminder to trust nobody and ALWAYS DO YOU OWN MEASUREMENTS!!!



MudSnow said:


> Weight is also closer to 480g. They must have increased the thickness of the spoke bed.


Not a bad thing.


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## Mike T.

Lombard said:


> Just another reminder to trust nobody and ALWAYS DO YOU OWN MEASUREMENTS!!!


Why would *anyone ever* believe an important number that they didn't measure themselves? And I wouldn't care if the source was the factory engineer who made the extrusion die for the rim. If he wrote down the wrong number, he's not the one holding a fistfull of used spokes of the wrong length.

Then after the number leaves his hands, there are many more places where the number can be changed again. Even a correctly measured number can change if the extrusion die gets a running modification.

I do *my* best. If people don't read my ERD rant on my site or choose to ignore it then what the heck eh?


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## MudSnow

Instead of going on a rant about how the numbers can't be trusted, what I did was email to BHS, H Plus Son, and the spoke calculator site, informed them of my findings, and asked them to verify and update the website info. Because publishing incorrect ERD is worse than none.


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## Mike T.

MudSnow said:


> Instead of going on a rant about how the numbers can't be trusted, what I did was email to BHS, H Plus Son, and the spoke calculator site, informed them of my findings, and asked them to verify and update the website info. Because publishing incorrect ERD is worse than none.


Yeah I got a pair of rims a couple of years ago and the ERD was way off - 4~5mm. I e-mailed the company and they agreed they had made a mistake and that they would change their info. They did, partially, as they changed the numbers on their website rim spec sheet BUT they didn't change the .pdf that went out to their dealers. This .pdf was available to consumers from the retailer's sites.

One well known rim retailer didn't have the updated info on their site and it was still incorrect months later when I stopped checking.

So, I give my findings to companies, if needed *and* I go on a rant occasionally. I gots the bases covered.


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## Lombard

Mike T. said:


> Why would *anyone ever* believe an important number that they didn't measure themselves?


I don't know. Why WOULD anyone ever believe a number they didn't measure??? 



Mike T. said:


> So, I give my findings to companies, if needed *and* I go on a rant occasionally. I gots the bases covered.


And that's about all you can do. Nobody who reads what you have written can say they weren't warned.


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## MudSnow

That's a nice plan if what you do is order the rims, wait a week, measure, then order the spokes.
I order the spokes and rims on the same day.
I build mostly HED, Pacenti, and Stan's and they have been 100% accurate so far.
The weirdest thing I have seen is Spank's ERD++, which basically means add 2mm to spoke length.


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## Mike T.

MudSnow said:


> That's a nice plan if what you do is order the rims, wait a week, measure, then order the spokes.


That's how I do it. To do otherwise is to trust others. You get to measure the hubs too - and the way that the calculator you use suggests measuring them.



> I order the spokes and rims on the same day.............they have been 100% accurate so far.


And so far you have gotten away with it.


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## Lombard

MudSnow said:


> That's a nice plan if what you do is order the rims, wait a week, measure, then order the spokes.
> I order the spokes and rims on the same day.


Well, OK. I can understand if you're in the business of building custom wheels in a world where everybody wants their stuff yesterday. However, even if you order all the pieces together, I'm thinking it would still be prudent to do all your own measurements before building, so you don't have to re-build the wheel. If your spoke lengths are wrong and you find out before you build, then you have nothing worse than some extra spokes in your inventory.

Don't you think measuring takes less time than building a wheel over again?


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## Enoch562

I recently got a set from BikeHubStore.com Mine measured 592. I was pleased with the weight coming in at 470.

I was hoping to be able to remove the writing on the rim. I used spray carb cleaner on the Archetypes and it would wipe rite off. I'm Not having any luck on these???


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## MudSnow

Acetone (finger nail polish remover) should take it off. Test on the inside of the rim first to make sure it doesn't damage the black.


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## November Dave

Acetone won’t harm anodizing, although carb cleaner might (and oven cleaner WILL). I unintentionally found that mineral oil will lift the decals on a HED rim. Probably works on H+ too. You have to let it sit. 

Hydras are nice rims. Built a set yesterday. For road-ish disc I think it’s very hard to do better.


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## Enoch562

November Dave said:


> Acetone won’t harm anodizing, although carb cleaner might (and oven cleaner WILL). I unintentionally found that mineral oil will lift the decals on a HED rim. Probably works on H+ too. You have to let it sit.
> 
> Hydras are nice rims. Built a set yesterday. For road-ish disc I think it’s very hard to do better.


I've got a gallon of Shimano Brake fluid (Mineral Oil). I'll have to give it a shot. Did it take off the decals on a Hed C2/Belgium rim?


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## Lombard

What is the objection to these decals? It's not like either H+ Son or HED uses anything terribly obnoxious. I've seen much worse.


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## Marc

Lombard said:


> What is the objection to these decals? It's not like either H+ Son or HED uses anything terribly obnoxious. I've seen much worse.


Yea...just about everyone else is worse...


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## November Dave

A lot of people like no decals at all. I find HED’s graphics to be particularly nice (as I said, unintentionally figured out the mineral oil trick) and my personal set of Hydra-based wheels has the logos on them. I like them.


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## Lombard

November Dave said:


> A lot of people like no decals at all.* I find HED’s graphics to be particularly nice *(as I said, unintentionally figured out the mineral oil trick) and my personal set of *Hydra-based wheels has the logos on them. I like them*.


I agree on both. I think the Belgium flag is a nice touch. And I like H+ Son's graphics in general.


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## Jay Strongbow

Lombard said:


> I think the Belgium flag is a nice touch.


I think it's pretty cheesy thing for a Minnesota company to put on rims they had made in Taiwan.


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## November Dave

I’ll give them a pass on that since InBev has (or had) a beer named America. It cancels out. HED alloy rims are actually made in China. Distinctions blur...


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## Lombard

Jay Strongbow said:


> I think it's pretty cheesy thing for a Minnesota company to put on rims they had made in Taiwan.


But if you name your product the Belgium, a Belgium flag is appropriate.


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## Clipped_in

Lombard said:


> But if you name your product the Belgium, a Belgium flag is appropriate.


That's what I was thinking... I like them--and the H+ Son graphics as well.


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## HHHaro

Ordered h plus son hydra 32h to put on 240 hubs. I cant return them or I would. found boyd altamont rims are fully designed and made in the USA and actually about same weight and strength about same inner width but have a nicer design, for about some price. Check them out on boyd site


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## Lombard

HHHaro said:


> Ordered h plus son hydra 32h to put on 240 hubs. I cant return them or I would. found boyd altamont rims are fully designed and made in the USA and actually about same weight and strength about same inner width but have a nicer design, for about some price. Check them out on boyd site


Where can you buy just the Boyd Altamont rims? I thought they only sold whole wheel sets.

I recently built up a pair of H+Son Hydras with Shimano RS770 hubs for my gravel bike. They built up quite easy and I'm happy with them so far. They look really sharp too. The black contrasts nicely with the silver spokes I chose


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## MudSnow

HHHaro said:


> Ordered h plus son hydra 32h to put on 240 hubs. I cant return them or I would. found boyd altamont rims are fully designed and made in the USA and actually about same weight and strength about same inner width but have a nicer design, for about some price. Check them out on boyd site


Nope. There isn't anything wrong with them, but they have a pinned joint instead of welded. But I wouldn't trade Hydra, Pacenti Forza, or HED Belgium+ for them.


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## HHHaro

Thank you for your input...


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## HHHaro

Boyd website has the rims sold separately you have to go to bottom of site and click keyword altamont or flip thru every page until you see them.


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