# Comfortable road saddles?



## Tippedcam (Jan 15, 2017)

I'm ridding a Fizik Antares R5. I love the way it performes It is firm and I feel like it fits me well with the width 144mm. I'm just noticing that after 2.5-3hrs in saddle the under carriage is a little sore. So riding the next day I'm wiggling a bit more to get comfortable. Anybody have a good performance saddle they like for longer rides that's not too squishy and don't slide around on?


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## factory feel (Nov 27, 2009)

I know exactly what you mean and I went thru the same quest for the perfect saddle after spending 5 figures in my search.

Give me a few minutes (Gotta go help a friend) and I'll let you know what is the ultimate saddle.

BRB.


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## MMsRepBike (Apr 1, 2014)

Maybe try the new Antares VS?










The new VS line is catching on quite a bit in the pros. They're in the saddle for ages.


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## bvber (Apr 23, 2011)

Tippedcam said:


> Anybody have a good performance saddle they like for longer rides that's not too squishy and don't slide around on?


Selle SMP Dynamic. Buying saddle is like buying shoes, you gotta try em on, unfortunately.


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## Srode (Aug 19, 2012)

I use the Cobb Randee on both my bikes, works great for long rides for me. But works for me doesn't mean it will work for you too. The ones I have are plenty firm, the new version may be softer - which I personally would not like but again everyone has their preference. Selle Italia has lots of options - I like their SuperFlow SLR for rides under 100 miles.


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## otoman (Mar 8, 2004)

Meld. It's custom and about $350. They send you a crush box you sit on. You mail it back and in a few weeks you'll get your custom saddle. I LOVE mine. Very comfortable and very light. Like many, I had spent 5 figures as well trying to find the right saddle over the years. 
Meld3d.com


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## cdhbrad (Feb 18, 2003)

Selle Italia Flite Gel works for me. I have done 8+ hour rides and felt fine at the end. Not a current model, but they are on EBay all the time.


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## No Time Toulouse (Sep 7, 2016)

Brooks makes DOZENS that fit that bill....


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## Lombard (May 8, 2014)

No Time Toulouse said:


> Brooks makes DOZENS that fit that bill....


Are you familiar with Brooks saddles first hand? I'm thinking about going this way as the saddle that had worked for me for years (Serfas Rx Men's), is now giving me saddle rash. I've tried different shorts, tried changing tilt, but still have the problem. I'm wondering if a harder saddle would be better for this problem.

The problem with Brooks is that as you say, they make dozens of types of saddles. Which to choose from? Experimenting with these will be expensive.


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## Herbie (Nov 12, 2010)

I have a lot of experience with brooks going back to the mid 80's when I started riding ultra marathons. At that time I used the Pro. Very comfortable for me.

I have also used the B17 without any issues. I don't really have a preference. I would hesitate to call them "performance saddles" based on their weight 

Last year I put a swallow on my new Lynskey. I bought it at a swap meet for half price new in box. Obviously it did not work for someone.


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## bvber (Apr 23, 2011)

otoman said:


> Meld. It's custom and about $350. They send you a crush box you sit on. You mail it back and in a few weeks you'll get your custom saddle. I LOVE mine. Very comfortable and very light. Like many, I had spent 5 figures as well trying to find the right saddle over the years.
> Meld3d.com


How interesting! After I posted this back in 2013, I was hoping that someone would start such business. 

I wish I heard about this 3 weeks ago before I spent $120 on Specialized Power saddle for my second bike.  It works decently but I feel that it could be better.


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## Lombard (May 8, 2014)

Herbie said:


> I have also used the B17 without any issues. I don't really have a preference. I would hesitate to call them "performance saddles" based on their weight


I really don't care about weight within reason (no spring version for me). I just want a saddle that's comfortable on longer rides of 60-70 miles.

The B17 Imperial has a cutout which my current saddle has. In theory, this is supposed to keep my package from going numb.


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## Trek_5200 (Apr 21, 2013)

there is no such thing as a universally perfect saddle. its not about padding either. it's about buying a saddle that fits your own individual sit-bone. no two people will find the same saddle comfortable, you just have to try them out.


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## SwiftSolo (Jun 7, 2008)

I find the brooks saddles great for mtb where you're in and out of the saddle a lot. They are a one-position saddle and do not work for me on the road. 

The fizik arione is my preference as it offers different but workable pressure points by simply sliding for or aft.

You could do that on a brooks but would suffer serious discomfort.

As someone already pointed out, everybody has a different ass, so, what will work for you is anybody's guess.


Lombard said:


> Are you familiar with Brooks saddles first hand? I'm thinking about going this way as the saddle that had worked for me for years (Serfas Rx Men's), is now giving me saddle rash. I've tried different shorts, tried changing tilt, but still have the problem. I'm wondering if a harder saddle would be better for this problem.
> 
> The problem with Brooks is that as you say, they make dozens of types of saddles. Which to choose from? Experimenting with these will be expensive.


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## jpz (Jan 19, 2007)

The problem with asking opinions on saddles is one persons comfort saddle is somebody else's torture device.Fizik on their web page give a nice description of the shapes of saddles: bull, chameleon & snake and this can help point you toward the right shape based on your riding style(in any companies saddle) & then figuring out your width.


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## Trek_5200 (Apr 21, 2013)

when i got my c-59 the original saddle didn't work for me. r&a cycles noticed the saddle was curved from the center so on the next go-around we opted for something flatter. for me it worked. i bring this up not so you should get the same saddle i got but a suggestion that if a saddle isn't working analyze the saddle so you can opt for something that has a different shape. in this way at least you're not repeating the same mistake.


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## blackfrancois (Jul 6, 2016)

Trek_5200 said:


> no two people will find the same saddle comfortable.


?????


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## Herkwo (Nov 8, 2002)

Selle Italia Superflow has worked for me.
Selle Italia SLR Superflow 145 Saddle - Saddles - Ribble Cycles


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## factory feel (Nov 27, 2009)

it's not how it works it's how it looks.


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## MerlinAma (Oct 11, 2005)

Trek_5200 said:


> there is no such thing as a universally perfect saddle. its not about padding either. it's about buying a saddle that fits your own individual sit-bone. no two people will find the same saddle comfortable, you just have to try them out.


And that's the truth. When I try a saddle that "looks" comfortable, it's terrible. 

The saddle I ride most is a Specialized Toupe which is the last saddle I'd chose just by looking. But it works for me!!!


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## Tippedcam (Jan 15, 2017)

bvber said:


> Selle SMP Dynamic. Buying saddle is like buying shoes, you gotta try em on, unfortunately.


I've heard more than one positive review of the SMP 209 Lite, haven't looked at the Dynamic. Thanks


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## bradkay (Nov 5, 2013)

factory feel said:


> I know exactly what you mean and I went thru the same quest for the perfect saddle *after spending 5 figures in my search*.
> 
> Give me a few minutes (Gotta go help a friend) and I'll let you know what is the ultimate saddle.
> 
> BRB.


After spending five figures in your search???!! My god, I hope that you are talking Lire or Pesos... over $10,000 is a ridiculous amount to spend on saddles.


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## Tippedcam (Jan 15, 2017)

Bradkay / although Iam laughing at your response, I do want to hear what factory feel has gleaned from their research. That seems like a lot of saddles?


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## bvber (Apr 23, 2011)

factory feel said:


> it's not how it works it's how it looks.


It's not how it feels?


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## Bikephelps (Jan 23, 2012)

I'm a former randonneur (long distance) cyclist & many randonneurs use various Brooks. I started randonneuring with a Fizik Aliante but switched to a Brooks Swift. Still use both but much prefer the Swift. Tried a Brooks B-17 but it didn't work for me. I do use the B-17 Imperial (has a cut-out) on my tandem. Neither Swift or Aliante worked on the tandem. What works for me may or may not work for others. Brooks also can take a few hundred miles for the leather to conform to your butt. Bottom line (pun intended) if you don't mind the extra weight, a saddle that many randonneurs use might be something to try.


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## Chader09 (Jun 10, 2014)

bradkay said:


> After spending five figures in your search???!! My god, I hope that you are talking Lire or Pesos... over $10,000 is a ridiculous amount to spend on saddles.


50 to 100 saddles (based on $100-200 est. price each) seems a bit much. Depending on yeas riding, that could very 5 or more saddles each year. 

Color me skeptical as well.


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## BCSaltchucker (Jul 20, 2011)

sore butt

that's a bummer. maybe consider a Bummer
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VfBaibICuyc


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## Hiro11 (Dec 18, 2010)

Specialized Romin Evo Pro. For me.


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## otoman (Mar 8, 2004)

Chader09 said:


> 50 to 100 saddles (based on $100-200 est. price each) seems a bit much. Depending on yeas riding, that could very 5 or more saddles each year.
> 
> Color me skeptical as well.




sorry, sorry. Sheesh. I meant 4 figures. Yes, not >$10k. That would be a lot of saddles!


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## claudio_vernight (Mar 3, 2010)

cdhbrad said:


> Selle Italia Flite Gel works for me. I have done 8+ hour rides and felt fine at the end. Not a current model, but they are on EBay all the time.


Ditto. I've been using the older models for years and years. I buy them on ebay when I see them. I have them on 3 bikes and have another 3 in inventory. I've found they only last a couple of years and then I wear through the cover.


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## HyperCycle (Sep 5, 2012)

I was about to say $10K to find the right bike saddle is insane. I could buy 3 nice carbon bikes with 105/Ultegra for that amount.

I guess I'm lucky and blessed with a cooperative tailbone as long as I'm wearing a padded chamois. Usually the saddle that comes standard on the bikes I purchase is adequate. I did replace the saddle on my Trek 1.1 with a Nashbar FR1 which was a noteable improvement over the stock Bontrager saddle.


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## CharlieRN (Jul 9, 2016)

Since I'm hoping to ride RABRAI this July, I recently went looking for a more comfortable saddle. The general consensus was that the most comfortable saddle for long rides was likely to be leather and after considerable research, I settled on a Selle Anatomica X. This model generates overwhelmingly positive reviews and after putting about 100 miles on mine, I can see why. 

The company says no break-in is needed and I'd have to largely agree: Whlle the Anatomica X was reasonably comfortable right out of the box, after some minor tweaking the comfort level got to extraordinary. As far as cons, the only major negative is its weight which is in the 400 - 500 gram range. There were some reports of frame distortion (the rails are longer than found on most saddles), but that appears to have been successfully addressed in the newer X models. Another small con is that the leather is not waterproof, so care has to be taken in wet conditions. 

The list price is reasonable for a quality leather saddle but I purchased a "B stock" model that had a cosmetic blemish for roughly 50% of list. The blemish is all but unnoticeable - the leather is trimmed incorrectly at the nose of the saddle - and does not affect performance (or warranty). 

It's the most comfortable saddle I've ever ridden however, my derriere is unique to me, and your experience may be different. Selle Anatomica (which by the way is an American company making their saddles in the US) has a 30 day return policy, so it's a low-risk proposition if you want to try one. Not in any way affiliated with the company but as you can see, am a very satisfied customer.


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## Cinelli 82220 (Dec 2, 2010)

Tippedcam said:


> I'm ridding a Fizik Antares R5.


As posted already, try the VS version with a channel in the middle.
I use Aliante most of the time, for longer rides an Aliante VS.


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## Lombard (May 8, 2014)

CharlieRN said:


> Since I'm hoping to ride RABRAI this July, I recently went looking for a more comfortable saddle. The general consensus was that the most comfortable saddle for long rides was likely to be leather and after considerable research, I settled on a Selle Anatomica X. This model generates overwhelmingly positive reviews and after putting about 100 miles on mine, I can see why.
> 
> The company says no break-in is needed and I'd have to largely agree: Whlle the Anatomica X was reasonably comfortable right out of the box, after some minor tweaking the comfort level got to extraordinary. As far as cons, the only major negative is its weight which is in the 400 - 500 gram range. There were some reports of frame distortion (the rails are longer than found on most saddles), but that appears to have been successfully addressed in the newer X models. Another small con is that the leather is not waterproof, so care has to be taken in wet conditions.
> 
> ...


Sounds promising. I think I will look into this one. Thanks!

Edit: Looking at reviews, bent rails are the only legitimate complaint on a few. Never heard of this happening.


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## dirtiClydesdale (Jun 20, 2014)

Lombard said:


> Sounds promising. I think I will look into this one. Thanks!
> 
> Edit: Looking at reviews, bent rails are the only legitimate complaint on a few. Never heard of this happening.


As being a "bigger rider" I can easily confirm the "bent rail" issue for the Selle Anatomica. It occurred during normal riding... not an accident or anything else but just regular riding. 

After that saddle, I purchased a Brooks B17 Imperial and I was sincerely satisfied to be in the saddle for more than 7+ hours. With the B17... I have put over 8k+ miles on it.

On my next bike, I am sticking with Brooks and going with their Cambium C17 Carved line... I can give an update once I get a 1000 miles on that saddle.


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## Scar (Sep 13, 2014)

Picking a saddle for someone else is about as successful as trying to pick a pair of shoes for them. As in Not Very.

My personal favorite is the Selle SMP Pro. Kind of expensive but worth it for me. 

Will the OP like it? Maybe or maybe not.


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## factory feel (Nov 27, 2009)

perceived value.

I have 20 dollar ebay takeoffs that are as good or better than some 200 dollar plus saddles.


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## PoorInRichfield (Nov 30, 2013)

My very expensive journey to try and find a saddle that didn't leave me sore after 2 hours of riding taught me one thing: It was my butt that was the problem, not the seat. After getting in better shape, the stock saddle I started with seemed just fine :mad2: I bought multiple saddles, typically on eBay, and was never happy with any of them and usually took a loss when trying to sell them again.

Also, if you're like me and you typically sit even when climbing, be sure to stand on occasion to get the blood flowing on your posterior on occasion.

I always wondered how the pros ride with saddles that often have little or no padding... apparently it's because they're butts are so rock-hard that it doesn't matter if their saddle is padded or not!


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## Lombard (May 8, 2014)

PoorInRichfield said:


> My very expensive journey to try and find a saddle that didn't leave me sore after 2 hours of riding taught me one thing: It was my butt that was the problem, not the seat. After getting in better shape, the stock saddle I started with seemed just fine :mad2: I bought multiple saddles, typically on eBay, and was never happy with any of them and usually took a loss when trying to sell them again.
> 
> Also, if you're like me and you typically sit even when climbing, be sure to stand on occasion to get the blood flowing on your posterior on occasion.
> 
> I always wondered how the pros ride with saddles that often have little or no padding... apparently it's because they're butts are so rock-hard that it doesn't matter if their saddle is padded or not!


Hmmm. So maybe this is what I need:

Official Site of Original Buns Of Steel DVD - Greg Smithey - Fitness Video - Best Workout Videos - Butt Exercises


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## bvber (Apr 23, 2011)

Lombard said:


> Hmmm. So maybe this is what I need:
> 
> Official Site of Original Buns Of Steel DVD - Greg Smithey - Fitness Video - Best Workout Videos - Butt Exercises


Weight weenies won't buy. They should do one for "Buns of Aluminum" and a few years later "Buns of Carbon" for double dipping.


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## Mr. Versatile (Nov 24, 2005)

Almost all cyclists I've met have had a problem choosing a seat. I had a chronic saddle sore that lasted 3 years. During that time I tried all kinds of seats. I prefer curved/banana type seats. Finally I gave up & said, "I don't care how much it weighs, I'm getting a Brooks. I used them when I 1st started riding in the early 60s, then I got caught up in the weight weenie syndrome. I got a B17, their most popular model & rode across the U.S. with it. No, I'm not a tourist, but it was a supported trip & I got to go free. My chronic saddle sore actually healed itself on that 3900 mile trip.

Two important warnings:
1. Brooks seats are pretty darn uncomfortable when you 1st ride them. They break in like a baseball glove or a new pair of shoes. They actually mold themselves to your bottom. Be patient & you'll see they're like sitting in a hammock after awhile.
2. Shop around a lot. I've seen Brooks B17 for as much as $150+ & as low as $70 for exactly the same seat.


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## FeltF75rider (Feb 10, 2012)

I've been lucky in that I have tried both the Fizik Kure snake and the Arione saddles with great results. Some have found the Arione to be an a**hatchet but it's been my go to. It's also been great that I tried these two relatively quickly in my search. I tried a Specialized saddle that was horrible. Sounds like your close. I have found that less padding is actually better for me and have heard that from others. Saddles are very personal and not an item you can expect the same results as another rider. Look into loaner saddles, might be a good way to go with very little monetary outlay.


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## MR_GRUMPY (Aug 21, 2002)

Comfort is in the eye of the beholder.


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## bvber (Apr 23, 2011)

MR_GRUMPY said:


> Comfort is in the eye of the beholder.


Comfort is in the a$$ of the beholder. Fixed it for you.


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## blackfrancois (Jul 6, 2016)

Mr. Versatile said:


> Brooks seats are pretty darn uncomfortable when you 1st ride them. They break in like a baseball glove or a new pair of shoes. They actually mold themselves to your bottom. Be patient & you'll see they're like sitting in a hammock after awhile.


disagree. i find brooks leather saddles more comfortable new than a year old. (a "hammock" like saddle sounds really uncomfortable.) maybe i'm in the minority. though i still have two on bikes, i no longer buy them and now prefer gyes saddles for their greater thickness, laced skirts, and lower price.


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## Lombard (May 8, 2014)

bvber said:


> Weight weenies won't buy. They should do one for "Buns of Aluminum" and a few years later "Buns of Carbon" for double dipping.





bvber said:


> Comfort is in the a$$ of the beholder. Fixed it for you.


Are you butter? Maybe not, but you're definitely on a roll today. :thumbsup:


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## Mapei (Feb 3, 2004)

An enjoyable thread. A pitched battle between those who know for certain and those who know for certain that nobody knows. My current saddles are a 20 year old Fizik Vitesse and a Specialized Jett. Both are the most comfortable I have found but, of course, they'll never actually _be_ comfortable. 

Because I'm extremely gullible, I've followed expert advice and purchased several Brooks saddles over the years. B17's and other model's whose names I can't remember. I've bought them new and dutifully just rode them until they broke in. I've slathered them with various elixirs. I've bought a couple at swap meets that were, how shall I say, more than thoroughly broken in. Back in the 1970's I even had an Ideale, the French Brooks. Every single one started off as a torture rack and never got much better. Sore sit bones. Redness. Irritation. Numbness in the proverbial private parts. They sure were pretty, though (and I'm not talking about my private parts).


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## blackfrancois (Jul 6, 2016)

Mapei said:


> Because I'm extremely gullible, I've ... purchased several Brooks saddles ... Every single one started off as a torture rack and never got much better.


that's really sad you continued riding a saddle that always felt like "a torture rack."


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## jta (Jun 27, 2012)

MMsRepBike said:


> Maybe try the new Antares VS?
> 
> The new VS line is catching on quite a bit in the pros. They're in the saddle for ages.


Looks like Fizik has released a full cut-out saddle for women called the Luce (as opposed to the center channel in the VS and VSX models for men). I know they've been resistant to offering a full cut-out, but wondering if they'll finally give in and offer a men's saddle with a full cut-out as well. I like both the Antares and Antares VS, but I think a cut out would be an improvement. For now, I favor Specialized Romins slightly over Antares.


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## aclinjury (Sep 12, 2011)

Can someone explain to me why does the nose of almost all these saddles need to be so looong? I mean nobody can possibly sits on the front 1/2 section of the nose without bruising their nuts. Why don't they make saddles shorter then? A shorter saddle will not only save you some weight, but its shorter nose won't also snag on your bib when you get back on it after being out of the saddle.


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## MMsRepBike (Apr 1, 2014)

They do make shorter saddles, I use one.

Usually the short saddles are labeled as TT saddles, or rather any saddle with a short or removed nose is usually labeled TT.

So if you're into shorter saddles, like I am, you'll likely spend most of the time looking at TT saddles. The one I use is labeled for TT, but I don't care.


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## bvber (Apr 23, 2011)

aclinjury said:


> Why don't they make saddles shorter then?


Specialized does and it's marketed for road & MTB. Look up their _Power_ saddle.


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## Srode (Aug 19, 2012)

Most saddles are going to be 240mm long or longer up to 300 because that's what UCI requires I believe. I use a nose-less saddle but it has extra length on the back as do most TT saddles to meet the requirements. Adamo / ISM is an example of this as is the Cobb Randee (which I use)


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## Sojodave (Apr 7, 2015)

I tried 6 saddles and I found the Specialize Pro Expert to be the most comfortable for me. Everyone is different, but I went 75 miles with no bum pain.


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## aclinjury (Sep 12, 2011)

MMsRepBike said:


> They do make shorter saddles, I use one.
> 
> Usually the short saddles are labeled as TT saddles, or rather any saddle with a short or removed nose is usually labeled TT.
> 
> So if you're into shorter saddles, like I am, you'll likely spend most of the time looking at TT saddles. The one I use is labeled for TT, but I don't care.


last TT saddle I tried was the ISM Adamo, and didn't like it due to its wide nose rubbing my thighs. And not only me, I see a lot of ISM Adamo's have the sides of its nose rubbed off, aparently by rubbing thighs too much. And I could never feel comfortable sitting on the rails of the nose. Felt like i'm going potty in a 3rd world toilet.


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## aclinjury (Sep 12, 2011)

Srode said:


> Most saddles are going to be 240mm long or longer up to 300 because that's what UCI requires I believe. I use a nose-less saddle but it has extra length on the back as do most TT saddles to meet the requirements. Adamo / ISM is an example of this as is the Cobb Randee (which I use)


saddles with wide nose don't go well with my narrow hip! Adamo ISM didn't work out for me


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## MMsRepBike (Apr 1, 2014)

A lot of Adamo saddles are too wide for me too. Like the Time Trial version or Road version for example. Their longer ones like the Breakaway or I guess now the the PL whatever it is are more narrow and okay for me. But I'm not talking those ISM saddles, I mean ones like this:

Pro Aerofuel:









Prologo Zero:









That sort of thing. Normal type of saddles with short noses.


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## aclinjury (Sep 12, 2011)

MMsRepBike said:


> A lot of Adamo saddles are too wide for me too. Like the Time Trial version or Road version for example. Their longer ones like the Breakaway or I guess now the the PL whatever it is are more narrow and okay for me. But I'm not talking those ISM saddles, I mean ones like this:
> 
> Pro Aerofuel:
> 
> ...


do you know the width of the nose of the Prologo ?


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## MMsRepBike (Apr 1, 2014)

aclinjury said:


> do you know the width of the nose of the Prologo ?


I do not.

For reference though, the Aerofuel II above it is 45mm wide at the nose.

Adamo Time Trial is 63mm wide by my measurement.

Adamo Breakaway is about 52mm wide by my measurement.

I would guess the Prologo Zero II TT is about 45 to 50mm wide at the nose.


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## dlb1918 (Jun 4, 2016)

For an interesting POV on seat choice, see: https://www.cervelo.com/en/engineering-field-notes/the-four-and-a-half-rules-of-road-saddles.

If you treat the 2 horns(?) of an ISM Adamo as the nose, you're misusing the saddle. By design, they're meant to support your pubic rami; your ...um... soft bits ride in front of the horns. I suggest checking the documentation on their website - start with FAQ #4.

If numb soft bits is your problem, the ISM and Selle SMP saddles are good solutions (though there are others), if you use them right (soft bits off the saddle). There's essentially no pressure on the pubic nerve with these saddles, so the likelihood of getting numb is low. The Selle SMP patent application has pictures of how the saddle should be used - https://www.google.com/patents/US7699391.


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## bvber (Apr 23, 2011)

bvber said:


> How interesting! After I posted this back in 2013, I was hoping that someone would start such business.
> 
> I wish I heard about this 3 weeks ago before I spent $120 on Specialized Power saddle for my second bike.  It works decently but I feel that it could be better.


I ended up going for it. I rode over 100 miles on it last few weeks and the verdict is, it's worth $250 I paid.









It's little more comfortable than the next best fitting store bought saddle for me (Selle SMP Dynamic) and it's actually little cheaper. Sure it takes time to go through the process but that's what custom fitted stuff requires. 
I'm a happy customer.


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## stevoo (Oct 26, 2011)

Riding ISM Adamo for a number of years now. As already mentioned setup is critical. Both fore and aft and even more is the tilt. I find the proper tilt angle varies according to your aero position on the bike. With aero bars or riding in the drops a lot I prefer a few degrees more down angle. 

Had to ride some traditional saddles while demoing bikes at Outerbike and local demo days. It was torture. 

For me I cannot go back to a traditional saddle.

Of course what works for one person may not work for others.

Good luck


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## vagabondcyclist (Apr 2, 2011)

bvber said:


> Specialized does and it's marketed for road & MTB. Look up their _Power_ saddle.


Just switched to the Specialized Power saddle. So far I like it. It looks weird, but is comfortable, especially in the drops. It has one position...or maybe 1.5, but it's comfortable enough that so far I haven't found the need to move around much to get comfortable. 

Glad you found a saddle you like.


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## woodys737 (Dec 31, 2005)

I have been super stoked with the Pro Carbon Stealth saddle. Info HERE. I was a long time user of the Specialized Romin but, they no longer make it so it forced me to search out something new.


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## Notvintage (May 19, 2013)

Scratch 2 CPC PAS 134/143 NACK - Prologo


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## coresare (Aug 20, 2013)

woodys737 said:


> I have been super stoked with the Pro Carbon Stealth saddle. Info HERE. I was a long time user of the Specialized Romin but, they no longer make it so it forced me to search out something new.


I tried the Meld saddle. It wasn't for me. Luckily they give a refund minus the cost of the imprint kit. I felt I couldn't get low without perineal pressure. I felt you couldn't move front or back or else you lost the sweet spot. They insist my bike is too big and that I'm sitting too far forward on the saddle.

I switched to the PRO Stealth and couldn't be happier also. You can get low and the pubic rami is properly supported when you rotate hips forward. The short and wide nose allows your nuts to actually not be smashed into your abdomen. You can also sit more upright for climbing and get good support still. It's like a Specialized power saddle, but with a nose you can actually use.


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## jimb100 (Jul 11, 2016)

Tippedcam said:


> I've heard more than one positive review of the SMP 209 Lite, haven't looked at the Dynamic. Thanks


I have the Lite 209 and I like it a lot. It replaced my Brooks B17, which I also liked. 

The SMP and the Brooks have more in common than what you might think. With both saddles you more sit in them as the SMP has a pronounced curve and the Brooks does mold to your bottom, somewhat. With the Brooks you can tighten the leather and control how much you sit in.

With the SMP, you have the sloping front and the cutout which is good if you want to move up and back a bit.

Of course the SMP is expensive, at least to me. The Brooks can be had for around $100.


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## robm90 (Aug 5, 2010)

With the caveat of everyone's rear end is different, my favorite saddle is the Specialized Phenom in 143 width. Some that were tolerable were Fizil Arione and Selle Italia Gel Flow. Selle san marco was intolerable. When I found one that really worked it was amazing. No more pain in the rear at all.


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## ROAD&DIRT (Mar 27, 2009)

Saddles are very personal and what works for me may not work for you... with that being said, I'm riding the SMP Dynamic


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## BCSaltchucker (Jul 20, 2011)

good looking SMP saddle.

I use SMP HeIl saddle on a couple bikes. after trying many saddles, prev being a Selle Italia SLR, some Adamo saddle, variosu turbos .. ended up with a Specific model of Specialized Romin wide with like 10 deg downtilt, weirdly. It was convenient having the Specialized dealer allowing me to try and return multiple Specialized saddles till I found the right one.


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## Oxtox (Aug 16, 2006)

I've never had a saddle that caused me much discomfort.

Turbomatic II, Ti Flite, Selle Italia SLR Team Edition...all have worked fine.

I just bolt em on and ride em.


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## ROAD&DIRT (Mar 27, 2009)

The SMP Dynamic was the best dam upgrade / money I ever spent, saved my a$$ on my latest trek of 75 miles... not discomfort at all :thumbsup:


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## meldsolutions (Nov 25, 2017)

coresare said:


> I tried the Meld saddle. It wasn't for me. Luckily they give a refund minus the cost of the imprint kit. I felt I couldn't get low without perineal pressure. I felt you couldn't move front or back or else you lost the sweet spot. They insist my bike is too big and that I'm sitting too far forward on the saddle.


As per our Facebook discussion, your current bike frame size of 54 is too big, it should be 52, or even 51.

The symptoms you describe are consistent with other folks' with frames that are too big: you can't push the saddle far enough to the front, and end up sitting too far in front on the saddle. When upright, your perineum and not your sitbones is supporting your weight, leading to the first cause of excessive perineum pressure. Furthermore, the cutout dimensions for our saddles are designed assuming you're sitting at the right spot when upright. When you sit too far in front, the cutout tapers and won't be wide enough, resulting in the second cause of excessive perineum pressure. That's why you felt you needed the cutout to be wider.

Unfortunately Meld does not design saddles to fit bikes that are incorrectly sized, the rails will have to be really, sometimes absurdly long, and at the end of the day the root cause is still an ill-fitting bike frame.


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## Kontact (Apr 1, 2011)

meldsolutions said:


> As per our Facebook discussion, your current bike frame size of 54 is too big, it should be 52, or even 51.
> 
> The symptoms you describe are consistent with other folks' with frames that are too big: you can't push the saddle far enough to the front, and end up sitting too far in front on the saddle. When upright, your perineum and not your sitbones is supporting your weight, leading to the first cause of excessive perineum pressure. Furthermore, the cutout dimensions for our saddles are designed assuming you're sitting at the right spot when upright. When you sit too far in front, the cutout tapers and won't be wide enough, resulting in the second cause of excessive perineum pressure. That's why you felt you needed the cutout to be wider.
> 
> Unfortunately Meld does not design saddles to fit bikes that are incorrectly sized, the rails will have to be really, sometimes absurdly long, and at the end of the day the root cause is still an ill-fitting bike frame.


Your post doesn't make much sense from a Fit perspective. One doesn't "push the saddle forward" to deal with a long top tube. Saddle position is independent of the handlebar position. Handlebar position/stem length is dependent entirely on the location of the saddle, which is dependent on the crank.

The difference between a size 52 and a 54 in top tube length is 1 to 2cm, which you can address with a change in stem. If 52 is the correct size, 54 could certainly be made to work.




Addressing the OP, I like the Kontact saddle design so much I started the company to put it back into production.


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## meldsolutions (Nov 25, 2017)

Kontact said:


> Your post doesn't make much sense from a Fit perspective. One doesn't "push the saddle forward" to deal with a long top tube. Saddle position is independent of the handlebar position. Handlebar position/stem length is dependent entirely on the location of the saddle, which is dependent on the crank.
> 
> The difference between a size 52 and a 54 in top tube length is 1 to 2cm, which you can address with a change in stem. If 52 is the correct size, 54 could certainly be made to work.


You are correct in saying that overall fit involves more than just pushing the saddle forward. However, we are not suggesting a change to the relative positions of hands, feet and pelvis. The point we are making is that *in the position coresare is already comfortable with*,* the saddle really needs to be further forward to be effective*. A bike with a smaller frame can certainly help with that. It is possible that 52 is still too big and an even smaller size is needed. A shorter stem might also work, but it will mean a change in fit, which will really depend on whether coresare is fine with that change.


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## Lombard (May 8, 2014)

Kontact said:


> The difference between a size 52 and a 54 in top tube length is 1 to 2cm, which you can address with a change in stem. *If 52 is the correct size, 54 could certainly be made to work.*


This may be true, but it certainly wouldn't be ideal.


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## Kontact (Apr 1, 2011)

meldsolutions said:


> You are correct in saying that overall fit involves more than just pushing the saddle forward. However, we are not suggesting a change to the relative positions of hands, feet and pelvis. The point we are making is that *in the position coresare is already comfortable with*,* the saddle really needs to be further forward to be effective*. A bike with a smaller frame can certainly help with that. It is possible that 52 is still too big and an even smaller size is needed. A shorter stem might also work, but it will mean a change in fit, which will really depend on whether coresare is fine with that change.


No, a smaller frame can't help move a saddle any further forward. The way a frame locates a saddle fore and aft has nothing to do with the size because the difference between different frame sizes occurs forward of the seat tube. Regardless of frame size, if you need to sit further forward over the pedals and can't, only a change of seatpost is going to fix that problem.



Lombard said:


> This may be true, but it certainly wouldn't be ideal.


I didn't say it was ideal, I said that the same fit could be had one size up without much effort because the only important difference between a 52 and 54 is a small amount of TT length and some stack. Blaming the frame size for a saddle location problem is misunderstanding frame geometry.


If you have a typical fit on a size 52 with a 110mm stem, you can duplicate that exact fit on a 54 with 100mm stem or a 56 with an 85mm stem. There are good reasons not to do this, but no one should claim that the 54 or even the 56 is preventing the saddle from being located properly if it can be on the 52.


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## Lombard (May 8, 2014)

dirtiClydesdale said:


> As being a "bigger rider" I can easily confirm the "bent rail" issue for the Selle Anatomica. It occurred during normal riding... not an accident or anything else but just regular riding.
> 
> After that saddle, I purchased a Brooks B17 Imperial and I was sincerely satisfied to be in the saddle for more than 7+ hours. With the B17... I have put over 8k+ miles on it.
> 
> On my next bike, I am sticking with Brooks and going with their Cambium C17 Carved line... I can give an update once I get a 1000 miles on that saddle.


I did try the Selle Anatomica this summer and will never go back to anything else. All my saddle irritations went away!

They do warn about bent rails due to the rails being very long. They recommend not slamming the saddle all the way back on its rails, but to leave at least 1cm.


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## coresare (Aug 20, 2013)

Hi, I've been using the Pro Stealth saddle for quite some time now and it's great. No change in my bike setup. I still have some room to push the saddle foeward more even.

The Meld saddle I just felt so limited on moving forward or back.


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## Kontact (Apr 1, 2011)

coresare said:


> The Meld saddle I just felt so limited on moving forward or back.


Just for clarity, are you talking about moving forward and back while riding, or the ability to adjust the saddle rails on the seat post?

Some saddles require picking a spot and staying there, while others act like a plank you can slide around on. The latter are good if you 'fidget' on the bike, but will never be as comfortable as a saddle designed to match anatomy more closely.


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## coresare (Aug 20, 2013)

Kontact said:


> Just for clarity, are you talking about moving forward and back while riding, or the ability to adjust the saddle rails on the seat post?
> 
> Some saddles require picking a spot and staying there, while others act like a plank you can slide around on. The latter are good if you 'fidget' on the bike, but will never be as comfortable as a saddle designed to match anatomy more closely.


Hi, I mean sliding my bottom fore or aft on the saddle. Even if I purposefully sat further back on the saddle I didn't feel comfortable.

The nose was just too narrow. Even if I had a smaller frame such as a 52, and I sat 1 cm further back.. that narrow nose will still be uncomfortable up the front. The Pro Stealth nose is wider and short enough not to be too uncomfortable on the soft tissue / balls.


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## meldsolutions (Nov 25, 2017)

coresare said:


> Hi, I've been using the Pro Stealth saddle for quite some time now and it's great. No change in my bike setup. I still have some room to push the saddle foeward more even.
> 
> The Meld saddle I just felt so limited on moving forward or back.


You have a sitbone width of around 108mm, which means your sitbones are located further in front on the Stealth than where they are designed to be. It happens to work because the Stealth is wider and the tapering part of the saddle supports your sitbones.

The other issue in your case is what you mentioned earlier: when your hips are rotated forward, your gentleman parts are pushed into your body if you're using a nosed saddle. You need a noseless saddle, which Meld does not make at the moment.

Because you were not able to rotate your hips on the Meld saddle, you were sitting further in front on the nose while your hips were upright. This meant your perineum was supporting your weight and not your rami. Increasing nose width will not help, since what you really needed was have the saddle pushed further in front so that your sitbones are supported.

This is why the primary reason behind why the Meld saddle didn't work out was that it could not be moved far enough in front. The secondary issue was that a noseless saddle is necessary.


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## Kontact (Apr 1, 2011)

coresare said:


> Hi, I mean sliding my bottom fore or aft on the saddle. Even if I purposefully sat further back on the saddle I didn't feel comfortable.
> 
> The nose was just too narrow. Even if I had a smaller frame such as a 52, and I sat 1 cm further back.. that narrow nose will still be uncomfortable up the front. The Pro Stealth nose is wider and short enough not to be too uncomfortable on the soft tissue / balls.


You have to use equipment like it was designed to be used. The nose on most saddles really isn't there for sitting.


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## coresare (Aug 20, 2013)

Meld. Even when I sat where the proper position is, it wasn't comfortable still for me. Like they say, saddles are personal choices.


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## bvber (Apr 23, 2011)

coresare said:


> Meld. Even when I sat where the proper position is, it wasn't comfortable still for me. Like they say, saddles are personal choices.


That's why Meld does custom measurement (foam) to make it personal for each buyer. I'm wondering if your fitting process was done right or perhaps you are very different physically.


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## coresare (Aug 20, 2013)

bvber said:


> That's why Meld does custom measurement (foam) to make it personal for each buyer. I'm wondering if your fitting process was done right or perhaps you are very different physically.
> View attachment 321216


It's fine when I'm sitting more upright, but as soon as I get real low it just didn't work for me. And yes ...even if I scooted my butt back..as much as until my thighs hit the wings. The foam measures the sit bones as you sit straight down on the foam block. This is per their instructions. Not leaned forward in a riding position. Meld, correct me if I'm wrong, but from there you use an algorithm to shape the saddle forward of the sit bone width, not any data from the foam block.


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## meldsolutions (Nov 25, 2017)

coresare said:


> Meld. Even when I sat where the proper position is, it wasn't comfortable still for me. Like they say, saddles are personal choices.


 
We've had a lot of folks on our saddles at this time, we definitely do not think that saddles are personal choices. When the saddle dimensions are correct, it becomes an issue of fore/aft and tilt adjustments.

From your earlier email with regards to sitting on the right spot: 

"When I'm sitting upright with hands on the hoods it feels great. It feels like the saddle is supporting the sit bones directly underneath instead of slightly on the inside like almost all other saddles. I feel I usually have to scoot back until I feel the wings just hit my thighs and then sit down to get into that sweet spot."

We are fine with you returning your saddle because you're unable to rotate your hips, and that is your preferred position. We just want to analyze every case where the saddle doesn't work out, and figure out exactly why. That's also why we decided to participated in this thread.


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## meldsolutions (Nov 25, 2017)

bvber said:


> That's why Meld does custom measurement (foam) to make it personal for each buyer. I'm wondering if your fitting process was done right or perhaps you are very different physically.
> View attachment 321216


Since the upright, on-the-hoods position appears to be working for coresare, it's usually the case that the aggressive, rotated-hips position will work out (and typically better). We definitely do not capture any info with regards to users' privates, so we can't tell if a noseless saddle is necessary.

If say Meld does make noseless saddles, will it solve the problem? The answer seems to be no, because we still design the saddle to be sat around a certain spot, which still seems to be too far behind.

Kontact's post a short while ago is leading us to think about coresare's fit: if the bike sizing doesn't help (much?), does that mean he is just too far forward, compared to everyone else? Or perhaps a bike with a TT/triathlon geometry is a better fit?


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## Kontact (Apr 1, 2011)

meldsolutions said:


> Since the upright, on-the-hoods position appears to be working for coresare, it's usually the case that the aggressive, rotated-hips position will work out (and typically better). We definitely do not capture any info with regards to users' privates, so we can't tell if a noseless saddle is necessary.
> 
> If say Meld does make noseless saddles, will it solve the problem? The answer seems to be no, because we still design the saddle to be sat around a certain spot, which still seems to be too far behind.
> 
> Kontact's post a short while ago is leading us to think about coresare's fit: if the bike sizing doesn't help (much?), does that mean he is just too far forward, compared to everyone else? Or perhaps a bike with a TT/triathlon geometry is a better fit?


If I may, the "problem" with pelvic angles (which vary naturally) and leaning forward is that the saddle can rotate with the rider's pelvic angle, but it can't change the vector of gravity. Generally, position on saddles is maintained by the ischial ramus "digging in" to the the leather and padding (and on traditional saddles, the nose). 

When the rider bends considerably or moves the saddle over the BB (tri bike), the pelvis rotates forward to the point that the ischial ramus lifts off the saddle and onto the pubic ramus where the perineum is. At that point the only thing you can do is lower the saddle nose to match, but now the ischial ramus is up against a sloped saddle. The slope is too much for the ramus to get traction on, and you're sliding.


The only ways around this is to get rid of the nose or find a way to get traction on the ramus or somewhere else.


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## 11spd (Sep 3, 2015)

Kontact said:


> No, a smaller frame can't help move a saddle any further forward. The way a frame locates a saddle fore and aft has nothing to do with the size because the difference between different frame sizes occurs forward of the seat tube. Regardless of frame size, if you need to sit further forward over the pedals and can't, only a change of seatpost is going to fix that problem.


Jesus Kontact, did you really work at a bike shop? The advice you give on this forum is so misguided.
Frame size 'can' affect horizontal saddle position relative to crank center by virtue of 'seat tube angle' Most manufacturers increase sta relative to smaller frame sizes. Not all, but vast majority. So frame size can affect rider position relative to the BB.

General example:


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## meldsolutions (Nov 25, 2017)

Kontact said:


> If I may, the "problem" with pelvic angles (which vary naturally) and leaning forward is that the saddle can rotate with the rider's pelvic angle, but it can't change the vector of gravity. Generally, position on saddles is maintained by the ischial ramus "digging in" to the the leather and padding (and on traditional saddles, the nose).
> 
> When the rider bends considerably or moves the saddle over the BB (tri bike), the pelvis rotates forward to the point that the ischial ramus lifts off the saddle and onto the pubic ramus where the perineum is. At that point the only thing you can do is lower the saddle nose to match, but now the ischial ramus is up against a sloped saddle. The slope is too much for the ramus to get traction on, and you're sliding.
> 
> ...


I think I understand what you're saying, but it does not sound like coresare is slipping forward. If so, there will be additional pressure on his hands, which will manifest as numbness/tingling over time. And when he's on a Meld saddle, he could not rotate his hips to any significant degree (verified via photo).

It appears that Cervelo S3 frames of different sizes all have the same seat tube angle, whereas those of say Cannondale SuperSix Evo increases with smaller sizes. It may just be that the S3's geometry just does not fit him regardless of size, at least with regards to appropriately sized saddles. We have encountered folks in a similar situation who ended up riding on their perineums because they know of no other way to sit on their saddles.


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## Kontact (Apr 1, 2011)

11spd said:


> Jesus Kontact, did you really work at a bike shop? The advice you give on this forum is so misguided.
> Frame size 'can' affect horizontal saddle position relative to crank center by virtue of 'seat tube angle' Most manufacturers increase sta relative to smaller frame sizes. Not all, but vast majority. So frame size can affect rider position relative to the BB.
> 
> General example:


Yup, I worked with the best fitter in the midwest at Cronometro.

Smaller size bikes often have slightly steeper seat tube angles, which is normally done to make it appear that the reach is smaller on smaller bikes.

1 degree of additional STA brings the seat about 1cm closer to the stem. When I was talking about the difference between frame sizes I was accounting for this, and that difference is usually between 0 and .5cm of saddle fore/aft.

But that doesn't change the fact that you can get any two adjacent size frames to fit the saddle properly, because there are no bikes designed to use the back end of the saddle rails to position the saddle. If you do that, even with a setback seatpost, the rider is slid so far forward that the cranks are effectively straight down, rotating the pelvis forward and the pubis down.


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## Kontact (Apr 1, 2011)

meldsolutions said:


> I think I understand what you're saying, but it does not sound like coresare is slipping forward. If so, there will be additional pressure on his hands, which will manifest as numbness/tingling over time. And when he's on a Meld saddle, he could not rotate his hips to any significant degree (verified via photo).
> 
> It appears that Cervelo S3 frames of different sizes all have the same seat tube angle, whereas those of say Cannondale SuperSix Evo increases with smaller sizes. It may just be that the S3's geometry just does not fit him regardless of size, at least with regards to appropriately sized saddles. We have encountered folks in a similar situation who ended up riding on their perineums because they know of no other way to sit on their saddles.


He wasn't sliding forward because he was digging into the saddle nose with his groin instead.


Cervelo affirmatively uses one STA because all bikes of a given model should use the same STA - riders of all heights have the same leg proportions. These small bikes you see with 75° STAs just create set back problems when you fit them to most people.


Overall, it sounds like Coresare is trying to use a road bike as a tri bike and is running into exactly the same saddle problem that every triathlete runs into - you end up on your pubis. Which is why crazy looking seats like the Adamo exist in the first place, even though you'll almost never see them on a standard road bike.



The reason KOPS came about is not that it describes some critically important relationship between knee and pedal, but it is a fairly reliable way of locating the pelvis behind the BB so the rider's weight distribution for posture and pelvic angle works with the way seats are designed.


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## GlobalGuy (Jun 9, 2015)

As you know no saddle will be comfortable unless properly mounted and positioned along with a proper personalized bike fit. 

The saddle linked below for road bikes tossed in with the above will on a percentage basis likely give you the greatest chance for the "best" saddle for most riders. 

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## 11spd (Sep 3, 2015)

Kontact said:


> Yup, I worked with the best fitter in the midwest at Cronometro.
> 
> Smaller size bikes often have slightly steeper seat tube angles, which is normally done to make it appear that the reach is smaller on smaller bikes.
> 
> ...


The larger question is, why do you continue to post bogus information on this forum? Did you flunk geometry class in junior high school? This is the third thing you have written wrong in this thread. Sliding the rider forward making the crank effectively straight down, does NOT rotate the pelvis forward and pubis down. It does exactly the opposite. It opens the hip angle and rotates the pubis up. This is the premise of a TT bike with upright seat tube angle....to open the hip angle. A more forward rider allows the torso to ride flatter which promotes a more aero torso position thereby closing the hip angle. Hip angle between a race fit on a road bike is not much different than hip angle on a TT bike. This is because a rider's torso on a TT bike is more horizontal which can only be the result of rider 'slid more forward' which opens the hip angle the same amount the torso can be flattened angularly to get more aero on a TT. Its the same reason a pro or good amateur will 'ride the rivet' which allows the rider to rotate his pelvis forward the same amount as the rider's torso can be lowered.

You should really stop posting Kontact. You have no idea what you are talking about.


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## MMsRepBike (Apr 1, 2014)

I have found most saddle makers to be full of **** and thinking they know it all at the same time.

I've had custom saddle makers tell me they wouldn't make what I wanted and that there must be something wrong with me or my bike or my position or whatever.

I ride in a very aggressive position, it's what's comfortable for me, looks much like any professional's fit. That means that most traditional saddles are not for me, sounds like it might be the case for Coresare as well.

Funny enough I'm on the PRO Stealth saddle as well and I love it as well. Want to know how that saddle was designed? 

It was made with a professional cycling team, Team Sunweb, might have heard of them. They were very involved in all stages of it's prototype and production. And before this saddle, PRO, like most saddle companies, didn't have a clue or make anything that worked well for riders like us.

So kudos to PRO for asking the professionals what they want and making it for them. And a big middle finger to the rest of the saddle makers and custom saddle makers out there telling us that we're the problem with your antiquated product.


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## Kontact (Apr 1, 2011)

11spd said:


> The larger question is, why do you continue to post bogus information on this forum? Did you flunk geometry class in junior high school? This is the third thing you have written wrong in this thread. Sliding the rider forward making the crank effectively straight down, does NOT rotate the pelvis forward and pubis down. It does exactly the opposite. It opens the hip angle and rotates the pubis up. This is the premise of a TT bike with upright seat tube angle....to open the hip angle. A more forward rider allows the torso to ride flatter which promotes a more aero torso position thereby closing the hip angle. Hip angle between a race fit on a road bike is not much different than hip angle on a TT bike. This is because a rider's torso on a TT bike is more horizontal which can only be the result of rider 'slid more forward' which opens the hip angle the same amount the torso can be flattened angularly to get more aero on a TT. Its the same reason a pro or good amateur will 'ride the rivet' which allows the rider to rotate his pelvis forward the same amount as the rider's torso can be lowered.
> 
> You should really stop posting Kontact. You have no idea what you are talking about.


I sincerely doubt you know what "open the hip angle" means. It is just something you are repeating.


The pelvis is going to assume roughly the same natural angle in relation to the back and the legs. That's true if you are sitting on the floor bent 90° or standing and bending forward.

From KOPS, you can move the saddle to the rear, as is popular on rando bikes, and the handlebar will generally come up and back because the rider isn't bent forward as much - the nose of the saddle generally comes up with this position because the pelvis tilts up as the legs and torso tilt up and back:










At KOPS, the bar is lower and further forward and the saddle level:










And a TT bike rotates the legs forward, the torso forward and down, and the pelvis down, causing a normal saddle to have the nose to be lowered.










In all three cases the amount of bend at the waist isn't really significantly different - the three positions are simply rotations around the BB. But they feel radically different because of gravity. Ride a TT bike up a steep enough hill and it will fill like the rando bike posture on level ground.

In all three cases you can bend more or sit up more, and in all three cases the pelvic tilt will average the tilt between legs and back. Even leaning further forward to move to the drops generally tilts the pelvis down in front.

Riding hard causes the muscles of the legs and back to try and straighten, which is why we tend to "ride the rivet" as we lose the waist bend and creep forward.

Of note, women are often referred to as having long legs and short torsos, which isn't true, but their bikes look like it is true. What is actually happening is that when women bend at the waist, the actually bend more at the hips then men and less with the lower back. This produces more corresponding pelvic tilt and even more saddle nose issues.


Back to your post - go to any fitter and ask them if triathletes end up with their saddles nose up (pelvis rotated back) or nose down (pelvis rotated forward). Generally it is so far forward they don't even use a normal saddle and get rid of the nose completely to compensate (Adamo).


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## meldsolutions (Nov 25, 2017)

Meld has worked with a range of riders, from professional to randonneurs in the development of our saddles. We worked with folks with severe perineum issues when designing our cutouts. Our saddles have been on hyrids, road bikes, triathlon bikes and mountain bikes (though putting our saddles on MTBs will void warranty). Both men and women have used our saddles. We have riders with handlebars on the same level as the saddle, and also riders with amazing saddle-to-handlebar drops. We've covered all of this, with the same saddle model-creation service at our web site.

We rely heavily on anatomy information because it is the ground truth. Many riders do not know what their actual sitbone widths are. A non-trivial number sit on the nose in the upright position even though it's now widely acknowledged that that's not a good thing since it places excessive pressure on our perineums. It isn't that folks are doing that deliberately, it's usually because they don't know.

And that's the problem with folks not knowing the complete picture: they cannot themselves decide what the ideal, or at least better, saddle should be like. They are limited by their prior experiences, they do not know what they don't know. If we ask someone who always rides upright on the nose what they want from a better saddle, they'll say they want one with a wider/more padded nose. This results in the least uncomfortable, and still medically unhealthy saddle, not the most comfortable.

Getting the saddle right isn't just about the saddle itself, fore/aft and tilt adjustments can still make or break the experience. When troubleshooting issues, we've encountered folks who tilt their Meld saddle noses up, which should never happen. Roughly 3 percent of our users have frame geometries that do not work, but fortunately almost all of such cases can be resolved with a change of seatpost (setback to non-setback), or perhaps even with a rotation of their seatpost so that the setback points to the front (if possible). In other words, a comfortable saddle experience isn't just about the saddle itself, it is also a great deal about the installation.


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## Kontact (Apr 1, 2011)

MMsRepBike said:


> I have found most saddle makers to be full of **** and thinking they know it all at the same time.
> 
> I've had custom saddle makers tell me they wouldn't make what I wanted and that there must be something wrong with me or my bike or my position or whatever.
> 
> ...


I'm not sure I understand your post. Pro riders often do ride very traditional saddles, like the Concur-like Aliante, or more recent designs that are still pretty standard in their approach.

"Aggressive" isn't a fit or a posture. It's what people refer to getting low, and there are two ways to get your bars down. The first is to have a lot of back flexibility and to bend from the waist while keeping a fairly "standard" pelvic tilt and saddle set back. Others get into something more like a TT position, rotate the pelvis well forward and make do sitting on the soft tissues.


Most companies attempting to design truly "anatomic" saddles are trying very hard to protect against nerve damage in either the classic saddle set back position or for the TT position. Positions somewhere in between present a challenge if the rider doesn't care if they hurt themselves but the saddle company does. Certainly some saddle companies do a lot of testing before they finalize a design. Our design came from direct measurements of blood flow, for instance.

ED is cumulative over years of riding. What people are willing to put up with to get aggressive when they're younger is not going to just go away when you sit up more later in life.


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## ScottChapman (May 3, 2009)

In my case, I got my custom saddle from Meld and had some issues after a long ride and was looking for guidance/advice on dialing in my installation. 

I gave some rough estimates of where the issues were (since it wasn't immediately after a ride) and sent in some photos of my installation.

The response I got was "equipment incompatibility" because they thought the saddle couldn't be moved forward. 

While I explained that I actually can move the saddle forward (because of how the seatpost on the Look 595 works), they dismissed my case as "equipment incompatibility".

The idea of a custom saddle is a really good one, and, as they have said above, getting the installation right is really important.

I guess I would have hoped for a better customer experience getting my investment to perform as designed.

There are lots of saddle manufacturers that will help you get the right saddle and will let you try different ones and help you get them dialed in. You'll end up save a bunch of money getting the right saddle.


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## meldsolutions (Nov 25, 2017)

ScottChapman said:


> I gave some rough estimates of where the issues were (since it wasn't immediately after a ride) and sent in some photos of my installation.
> 
> The response I got was "equipment incompatibility" because they thought the saddle couldn't be moved forward.


As we mentioned, we provide feedback based on the description of issues experienced. It will help greatly if the description provided is accurate, otherwise the troubleshooting will not go as intended.

Also, it seems you omitted an important part of our feedback. You provided a photo showing your saddle was installed level across the entire surface:









As part of our feedback, we referred to our installation instructions, which says that only the middle portion of our saddles, not the entire length, should be considered when leveling. In the instructions we also mention specifically that our saddles should not be tilted nose up. Since your saddle has a rear slope, leveling across the entire saddle will result in the nose tilting up. We have not heard back from you regarding this aspect of our feedback.

We want to use this opportunity to also say:

1. We have had perhaps a couple of users who say that they have had bike fitting done and hence they must be sitting at the right location/the saddle is installed correctly. Since we design and manufacture our saddles ourselves, we have very specific instructions on where to sit and how to install our saddles. These are not dependent on any third party, nor on any saddle made by other manufacturers.

2. To move the troubleshooting in the right direction, it will really help to be precise in the description of issues. Not being precise will result in us going in the wrong direction, the user having to backtrack, and the overall experience deteriorates rapidly for all involved.
Precision will also involve knowing the difference say between the rami, sitbones and perineum. We have encountered a small number of users who are very convinced their sitbones have been supporting their weight for the past few decades, only for us to figure out that they were instead sitting on their perineum. It takes humongous effort to correct this misconception.


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## AndreSF (Sep 23, 2013)

Most decent LBS's will have a brand or two that have a trial saddle program where you can try different ones over time and see what you like without getting stuck with the wrong one.

That being said, I like my Fabric, and it was sub $100.


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## ScottChapman (May 3, 2009)

meldsolutions said:


> As we mentioned, we provide feedback based on the description of issues experienced. It will help greatly if the description provided is accurate, otherwise the troubleshooting will not go as intended.
> 
> Also, it seems you omitted an important part of our feedback. You provided a photo showing your saddle was installed level across the entire surface:
> 
> ...


I did respond to your diagnosis and explained that I could could nose the saddle down and move it forward, as well as get a more a more accurate location of discomfort after a long ride. Your response was that you still classified it as "incompatible". You have been very dismissive and not offering any assistance to me so far. Feel free to reach out to me if you're now willing to help me out...

If you are able to determine compatibility from photos you might want to request them from customers beforehand to avoid this.


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## meldsolutions (Nov 25, 2017)

Scott Chapman:

As we demonstrated, we did continue to help in your case, which we think is equipment incompatible, by pointing out the installation issue you had regarding saddle tilt. As we state as part of our policy which we make everyone confirm they've read before an order can be placed, equipment incompatibility means the case will be handled at our discretion. It does not mean that we stop helping you.

This policy was added a while ago to align users' expectations to the service we provide. For instance, folks with bikes that are too big for them will require an extra long saddle to get it to work, which we don't make. We only make saddles to fit the body, not the rest of the bike. There are bikes with side-loading saddle rail clamps that fit 7x10 rails only. We don't make 7x10 carbon rails, just 7x9 ones. We need to make clear that we don't make saddles to fit the rest of the bike so that it can be installed and used per our instructions.


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## ScottChapman (May 3, 2009)

meldsolutions said:


> Scott Chapman:
> 
> As we demonstrated, we did continue to help in your case, which we think is equipment incompatible, by pointing out the installation issue you had regarding saddle tilt. As we state as part of our policy which we make everyone confirm they've read before an order can be placed, equipment incompatibility means the case will be handled at our discretion. It does not mean that we stop helping you.
> 
> This policy was added a while ago to align users' expectations to the service we provide. For instance, folks with bikes that are too big for them will require an extra long saddle to get it to work, which we don't make. We only make saddles to fit the body, not the rest of the bike. There are bikes with side-loading saddle rail clamps that fit 7x10 rails only. We don't make 7x10 carbon rails, just 7x9 ones. We need to make clear that we don't make saddles to fit the rest of the bike so that it can be installed and used per our instructions.


You did stop helping me when you reinforced your incompatible equipment classification when I offered make some adjustments based on your feedback. Incompatible means that it is not capable of working together. That seems like a pretty strong classification based on saddle tilt to me. The saddle can be tilted differently and I offered to do that. What I was hoping for was some specific guidance on what specifically you would like me to adjust and then how I should go about measuring the results. But instead you are telling me that I should just discard the saddle because it can't be made to work.

Perhaps you meant a different word?

(I apologize to others on the forum, I did ask they reach out to me if they are willing to help me out.)


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## meldsolutions (Nov 25, 2017)

Scott Chapman,

1. Again, equipment incompatibility does not imply we stop working with you. That is not what is written in our policy, that is not what we did. We did not tell you that you should just discard the saddle, at all. We neither said that directly, nor implied that in any way.

2. We worked through the inputs you gave and provided corresponding feedback. Equipment incompatibility is the result of your saddle not being able to be moved forward based on the photo you sent. Saddle tilt feedback is based on your photo showing the leveler on top of your saddle. That is the photo we posted earlier. These are two separate feedback based on separate inputs. We are not sure how you came to the conclusion that the incompatibility is based on saddle tilt, but that is incorrect.

At this time, it appears that we have no further input on the matter.


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## ScottChapman (May 3, 2009)

AndreSF said:


> Most decent LBS's will have a brand or two that have a trial saddle program where you can try different ones over time and see what you like without getting stuck with the wrong one.
> 
> That being said, I like my Fabric, and it was sub $100.


Zactlee. I've been pretty impressed with Fabric build and comfort (i've tried nearly a dozen different saddles this year). Really a good value...


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## ScottChapman (May 3, 2009)

...Just going to take this off-forum. Again, apologies to the audience...


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## bvber (Apr 23, 2011)

ScottChapman said:


> I did respond to your diagnosis and explained that I could could nose the saddle down and move it forward, as well as get a more a more accurate location of discomfort after a long ride. Your response was that you still classified it as "incompatible". You have been very dismissive and not offering any assistance to me so far. Feel free to reach out to me if you're now willing to help me out...
> 
> If you are able to determine compatibility from photos you might want to request them from customers beforehand to avoid this.


As an owner of Meld saddle, I am curious if you have photos from different angle that you can share, i.e. side view. Mine has been working fine for over a year.


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## 9W9W (Apr 5, 2012)

ScottChapman said:


> ...Just going to take this off-forum. Again, apologies to the audience...


Get your nets out cause i'm about to make a lot of opinions fly. 

For those guys "trying" saddles and spending "five figures" (really?) you are not fit to your frame. Period. Scott Champan, you need to get yourself fit and trust the fitters recommendations and not go home and move everything back to what feels familiar. Also, your seat is installed incorrectly. I don't mean to sound like a d!ck, but if you can't get this part right, you can't really grasp the many facets of a proper bike fit. Nice LOOK BTW. I will agree with Meld in that for the most part, saddle comfort is not subjective, it is an objective measurement. I said it before and will repeat again, you could be easily comfortable on more than one seat provided that you are correctly fit to your bike. Not impossible given than most here will agree that you can be fit to a bike correctly given two adjacent sized frames. 

To all you guys riding with level bars and seats so far back that your arsehole is over the rear hub, looking for that magical seat, sitting bolt upright on that pelvis, or sitting on the front part of your seat: you're doing it wrong. You could be riding faster, more comfortable and infinitely more efficient if you just went and got a proper bike fit. You'd open up your hips, increase your cadence, lower your bars, and just plain feel better on the bike instead of mashing with that seat slammed back on its rails. 

Finally, 11speed, ease up a bit on Kontakt. Both of you are very well informed and know more about bike fitting than 97.37% of the general cycling pop. I think you're both getting caught up in the syntax of pivoting around the crank and opening up hips.


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## ScottChapman (May 3, 2009)

bvber said:


> As an owner of Meld saddle, I am curious if you have photos from different angle that you can share, i.e. side view. Mine has been working fine for over a year.


Sure.








I've had a number of saddles with curved profiles, and generally I've had more luck with them when leveled end-to-end. Manufacturers are mixed on recommendations, and I realize Meld recommends leveling from middle not end-to-end. But that's where I started.

Still hoping to get it dialed in.


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## ScottChapman (May 3, 2009)

9W9W said:


> Get your nets out cause i'm about to make a lot of opinions fly.
> 
> For those guys "trying" saddles and spending "five figures" (really?) you are not fit to your frame. Period. Scott Champan, you need to get yourself fit and trust the fitters recommendations and not go home and move everything back to what feels familiar. Also, your seat is installed incorrectly. I don't mean to sound like a d!ck, but if you can't get this part right, you can't really grasp the many facets of a proper bike fit. Nice LOOK BTW. I will agree with Meld in that for the most part, saddle comfort is not subjective, it is an objective measurement. I said it before and will repeat again, you could be easily comfortable on more than one seat provided that you are correctly fit to your bike. Not impossible given than most here will agree that you can be fit to a bike correctly given two adjacent sized frames.
> 
> ...


Yip totally agree on getting fit; I did that when I got the bike (since it has an integrated seatpost and frame needs to be cut) and I had it done by a real pro (someone who does this for pro/semi-pro riders in the area) since I was dropping serious coin on the frame.

That was a while ago.

That all being said, there is some art mixed in with the science and there is some variation between fitting recommendations. So it is perfectly reasonable to propose "tweaks" to help dial in the fit especially when equipment (say saddles) is changed. Which is Meld's point.


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## 9W9W (Apr 5, 2012)

ScottChapman said:


> Yip totally agree on getting fit; I did that when I got the bike (since it has an integrated seatpost and frame needs to be cut) and I had it done by a real pro (someone who does this for pro/semi-pro riders in the area) since I was dropping serious coin on the frame.
> 
> That was a while ago.
> 
> That all being said, there is some art mixed in with the science and there is some variation between fitting recommendations. So it is perfectly reasonable to propose "tweaks" to help dial in the fit especially when equipment (say saddles) is changed. Which is Meld's point.


Looks like you got that fit alright. And, you're right about tweaks, I had a year off due to baby came back and had to tweak what felt great before. Four months in, I moved it back to where it was (mostly bar drop) now that my body got used and loosened up a bit.


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## bvber (Apr 23, 2011)

ScottChapman said:


> That all being said, there is some art mixed in with the science and there is some variation between fitting recommendations. So it is perfectly reasonable to propose "tweaks" to help dial in the fit especially when equipment (say saddles) is changed. Which is Meld's point.


If you were able to slide & tilt the saddle for dialing-in, what was the problem?


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## ScottChapman (May 3, 2009)

bvber said:


> If you were able to slide & tilt the saddle for dialing-in, what was the problem?


Basically this:


> Equipment incompatibility is the result of your saddle not being able to be moved forward based on the photo you sent


To me that means the equipment cannot work together because they believe the saddle can't be moved forward. Which it can.

So I'm just really unclear if I should move forward with the adjustments, and invest more in getting it dialed in. I can't reconcile that with:


> equipment incompatibility does not imply we stop working with you


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## bvber (Apr 23, 2011)

ScottChapman said:


> Basically this:
> 
> 
> To me that means the equipment cannot work together because they believe the saddle can't be moved forward. Which it can.
> ...


Since you have the actual thing and able to view the saddle and seatpost close ups, you can decide better where the slide limits are on the saddle rail (straight portion). If you have tried other saddles in the past, it's easy to tell. I found my Meld saddle to have longer straight portion of rail than many other saddles I've tried (Specialized, Selle Italia, Fizik, Selle San Marco, ...etc.) except Selle SMP (the longest).

Go ahead and test it.


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## Lombard (May 8, 2014)

9W9W said:


> Get your nets out cause i'm about to make a lot of opinions fly.
> 
> For those guys "trying" saddles and spending "five figures" (really?) you are not fit to your frame. Period. Scott Champan, you need to get yourself fit and trust the fitters recommendations and not go home and move everything back to what feels familiar. Also, your seat is installed incorrectly. I don't mean to sound like a d!ck, but if you can't get this part right, you can't really grasp the many facets of a proper bike fit. Nice LOOK BTW. I will agree with Meld in that for the most part, saddle comfort is not subjective, it is an objective measurement. I said it before and will repeat again, you could be easily comfortable on more than one seat provided that you are correctly fit to your bike. Not impossible given than most here will agree that you can be fit to a bike correctly given two adjacent sized frames.
> 
> ...


Kontact has been dormant from RBR since February. And 11spd is too busy stirring the pot on another rim vs disc brake thread.


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## ScottChapman (May 3, 2009)

bvber said:


> Since you have the actual thing and able to view the saddle and seatpost close ups, you can decide better where the slide limits are on the saddle rail (straight portion). If you have tried other saddles in the past, it's easy to tell. I found my Meld saddle to have longer straight portion of rail than many other saddles I've tried (Specialized, Selle Italia, Fizik, Selle San Marco, ...etc.) except Selle SMP (the longest).
> 
> Go ahead and test it.


Yea, I'm inclined to do that since I have made the investment already.

Out of curiosity how did you determine where you should be sitting on the saddle?

What I noticed when I first rode it (and I thought it was really interesting on my first couple of 20-milers) was that it felt like I "nestled" into a specific portion of the saddle. Sort of like sitting on someone cupped hands (stop laughing). That may have contributed to me sitting improperly while riding.


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## 9W9W (Apr 5, 2012)

bvber said:


> Since you have the actual thing and able to view the saddle and seatpost close ups, you can decide better where the slide limits are on the saddle rail (straight portion). If you have tried other saddles in the past, it's easy to tell. I found my Meld saddle to have longer straight portion of rail than many other saddles I've tried (Specialized, Selle Italia, Fizik, Selle San Marco, ...etc.) except Selle SMP (the longest).
> 
> Go ahead and test it.


I just throw some tools in my back pocket and go out to ride on a new seat. I made adjustments and revisit every X miles. Adjustments for the worse will become apparent in mere yards. Play with it and see what has you spinning more effortlessly with a better weight distribution.


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## bvber (Apr 23, 2011)

ScottChapman said:


> Yea, I'm inclined to do that since I have made the investment already.
> 
> Out of curiosity how did you determine where you should be sitting on the saddle?


By going out for rides. It's one of those things that you just have to try to find out.


> Sort of like sitting on someone cupped hands (stop laughing).


I'm not laughing. I remember (or not) those days when I weighed around 9 pounds.










> That may have contributed to me sitting improperly while riding.


The distance of ride can sort things out whether something is working or not. When I've tried saddle that just doesn't work for me, it became apparent within 5 miles of ride. The one that's kind of OK but not, became apparent in 30 miles. The one I thought was working well but not totally, was determined at the end of a century ride.

You just gotta try it.


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## ScottChapman (May 3, 2009)

bvber said:


> By going out for rides. It's one of those things that you just have to try to find out.
> 
> I'm not laughing. I remember (or not) those days when I weighed around 9 pounds.
> View attachment 323218
> ...


Yea, that's where I started. I did a few of our [email protected] lunch rides, and it was interesting but wouldn't describe it as uncomfortable. So I went on a longer 70 miler, and at around mile 40 I was pretty unhappy. I think I'll start with shorter distances and work my way up. But it is kind of a pain swapping saddles all the time. I do hope there is a good payoff at the end! ;-)


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