# Eyeballing the six



## MRFIXALL4 (May 19, 2003)

I got my first live look at the System Six 1 today at my local shop. What a Cannondale failure in my opinion. The guy who owns it even said it feels like he's riding an elephant. I could easily pick out the assembly flaws in this piece of crap. I bought an 06 Scalpel 1000 last December and I've torn the heck out of it and replaced or repaired it to the point where the bike has a total cost of $3500 now. I just don't see quality coming from Cannondale anymore. I've been shopping for a new road bike the last few weeks and one guy who's very much in tune to the market and competition today said that Cannondale is way over priced. I have to aggree with that. I've been seeing better assembly and better paint jobs coming from the competition for a much lower price. I think, no I know, I'm done with Cannondale.


----------



## Speedy (Oct 30, 2005)

MRFIXALL4 said:


> I could easily pick out the assembly flaws in this piece of crap.


Like what?


----------



## toyota (Sep 4, 2006)

I think that a lot of their bikes lack quality fit and finish. I looked at several Cannondales last week and now am not sure if I even want one. The Synapse bikes I looked at all had a little gap around the bb shell where the paint was coming off. Some of the cadd8 and caad9 bikes had horrible looking headtubes that were not smooth at all.

A few years ago I had to return three custom Cannondale frames. The first one had not been fully painted and had burrs on the top of the headtube. The second one had a huge dent in it. The third one had been painted over another paint job so the components would barely go on the bike. Then the paint just starting chipping off because it was a crappy paint job to begin with. I guess nothing has really improved since then.


----------



## Mr_Snips2 (Jun 26, 2006)

WTF??? if you want fit and finish, pick up a 2006 CAAD 8 R5000(naked metal). Mine has perfect welds all around. The paint(or well clear) is perfect. And for over price? i got full DA for under 2000!!!


----------



## zosocane (Aug 29, 2004)

MRFIXALL4 said:


> I've been shopping for a new road bike the last few weeks and one guy who's very much in tune to the market and competition today [who???] said that Cannondale is way over priced [compared to what???]. I have to aggree with that. I've been seeing better assembly and better paint jobs coming from the competition [which manufacturers, please??!!] for a much lower price. I think, no I know, I'm done with Cannondale.


Your points are all conclusory -- comparisons, please! I've put 8,500 miles on my 2006 Six13 (which is basically a CAAD8 with some carbon) in just over a year and it radiates quality and workmanship even after a reasonable amount of riding. And price? I think Cannondale -- for the components you get, depending on what level of bike you purchase -- provides the buyer a lot of value, more so than, e.g., Trek with all of its Bontrager components or certain European-manufactured frames that charge close to $3K for a frameset (e.g., Wilier, Merckx, Pinarello). And quality? I don't see any frame recalls from Cannondale like, e.g., Cervelo is doing right now on its R2.5

So the SystemSix allegedly rides like an "Elephant"? I test rode it and thought it kicked ass. Funny, Gord Fraser was quoted saying it's the best racing bike he's ever ridden and that he's keeping it as his training bike after he retires.


----------



## MRFIXALL4 (May 19, 2003)

My points are all conclusoy? What's that mean in laymans terms? I'm just a guy with a medium income and knows a little more about bikes than some shop mechanics out there. And as for Gord F. he was probably paid to say that. I have to dissagree with Cannondale being a value. There were so many cheap parts, ( chainrings, chain, pedals, etc.) that came on my Scalpel, not to mention the paint job isn't holding up to the common damp cloth treatment and looks cheap too.At $2600 I feel like I got taken. I'm not just spurting out about the bikes. I've owned three Cannondales now and I've had trouble with the last two. My Super-V was the best one of the bunch. In 2002 I looked towards Cannondale for a road bike and in comparison they were kind of high for what you got then too. I ended up buying a Merlin frame and building it the way I wanted. That bike just got hit by a car so I've been looking again and it wasn't just my opinion when I stated Cannondales are over-priced. The thing realy gets me about the System Six is that fat Headtube, and the Toptube joins the aluminum then there is no tapering transition to the Seattube. There is just a big blob of weld to jion the tubes. And the raw metal supposidly gets an acid wash, the frame I saw was clearcoated and underneth didn't even look like metal, it looked like a runny paint job. I strattled the bike, placed my hands on the grips and started putting side to side pressure on it and it flexed just as easily as my bike. Cannondales supposid tests may say it's a stiffer bike, but that's compared to what? I'm glad you like Cannondale. You can keep on buying then. I won't be riding em anymore. Ventana Baby!


----------



## Mr_Snips2 (Jun 26, 2006)

Heres the thing...scalpel, last time i checked, wasn't a road bike. These forums at ROAD BIKE review are for road bike related issues. And if you think the paint is crap on your scalpel, tell cannondale and maybe they will replace your frame. Also, say the paint on the System six in your LBS is bad, theres 1 in 5000 produced that is bad. All the others are fine. Don't judge an entire company from two bikes. Also, don't start out posting with Cannondales sucks. If you think there crap, live with it, us riding them know they aren't. Its really your loss.


----------



## MRFIXALL4 (May 19, 2003)

It isn't my loss because I'm going with a company that builds better bikes. And, when I see a Crank'n'fail going down the road I'll think of the spew that just came out of your mouth and laugh.


----------



## zosocane (Aug 29, 2004)

MRFIXALL4 said:


> I strattled the [SystemSix], placed my hands on the grips and started putting side to side pressure on it and it flexed just as easily as my bike.
> 
> 
> > Dude, are you telling us that you didn't actually test ride the SystemSix on the road, but, instead, you just straddled it at the bike shop to notice whether there was flex???


----------



## sako (Dec 28, 2005)

MRFIXALL4 said:


> It isn't my loss because I'm going with a company that builds better bikes. And, when I see a Crank'n'fail going down the road I'll think of the spew that just came out of your mouth and laugh.


Well, you're entitled to your opinions and criticisms of course. However when you can't back them up with an ounce of intelligence then you're just making yourself look stupid; or at the least very juvenile.


----------



## zosocane (Aug 29, 2004)

sako said:


> Well, you're entitled to your opinions and criticisms of course. However when you can't back them up with an ounce of intelligence then you're just making yourself look stupid; or at the least very juvenile.


Well put. He apparently didn't even test ride the SystemSix; according to him, he just "strattled the bike, placed [his] hands on the grips and started putting side to side pressure on it and it flexed just as easily as [his] bike." Oh. Okay. :idea:


----------



## Mr_Snips2 (Jun 26, 2006)

I just got into the car and turned the wheel side to side, it didn't handle very well...Yay for conclusive testing


----------



## MRFIXALL4 (May 19, 2003)

The whole point behind that simple test was because of Cannondale's claim about the stiffness of that ugly big-ass headtube. My Zipp stem and bar and Reynolds fork is more stiff in my opinion. You want to build a stiff bike for climbing you beef up the downtube and seattube not the toptube and headtube, You all sound like you fall right into the sales hype that these bike manufactures throw out there. By the way, the guy who owns the bike (System Six) is also the dealer and a good freind. I tend to trust his opinion more than you internet bozo's. He is a little dissapointed that I didn't want to buy a bike from him but totally understanding about it. And for those of you who have the Six/13, I wasn't including that bike in my rant, but like Eddy Merckx I'm not a big fan of blending materials, ie carbon with aluminum and other metals.


----------



## ctracer01 (Jan 5, 2006)

ok, well, first off, that still does not hold a candle to any kind of logical testing, b/c you're components were not the components used during you're test straddle. So, for all you know, ur zipp bar and stem do not flex, while you're frame does...meanwhile, during your test straddle, the systemsix didn't flex, while the stock bar and stem did.

come on man, give everyone a break...take one for a test ride, literally step on the pedals, and then come back and tell me that you don't think that thing transfers power well.

until then, don't waste your time on us "internet bozo's"


----------



## Mr_Snips2 (Jun 26, 2006)

Thankyou ctracer01.


----------



## Speedy (Oct 30, 2005)

MRFIXALL4 said:


> By the way, the guy who owns the bike (System Six) is also the dealer and a good freind. I tend to trust his opinion more than you internet bozo's.


This guy, that guy... WTF?  

How about trying things for yourself, and NOT coming here just to spew second hand remarks of some guy. :nono:


----------



## MRFIXALL4 (May 19, 2003)

Morons.

Go figure.

I'm done here.


----------



## zosocane (Aug 29, 2004)

"of that ugly big-ass headtube."

I think he's more bothered by the aesthetics of the SystemSix than its purported lack of stiffness.


----------



## cbuchanan (Mar 6, 2006)

MRFIXALL4 said:


> Morons.
> 
> Go figure.
> 
> I'm done here.


:cryin: :cryin:


I had abput a 30 mimute test ride on SysteSix and was very impressed with how smooth the ride was and how stiff the bike is overall. I'd buy it hands down if I was in the market.


----------



## cbart330 (Mar 2, 2006)

Hey,
I think he obviously had a bad experience with his scalpel...he's bitter at cannondale as a whole. Unfortunately we all have bad experiences with different products at one time or another...that's life. We each choose to show our frustrations in unique ways. This guy is venting here on the forum...hopefully he feels better. Really bad experiences destroy brand loyalty, quite clearly the case here. His opinion of the system six was decided long before he had ever laid eyes on the bike (or performed his highly respected/recognized stiffness test). So...let's let Mrfixall4 take his ball and go home. Meanwhile I'm going to hop on my six13 and enjoy every last second of its unbelievable performance.


----------



## haz a tcr (Sep 29, 2005)

MRFIXALL4 said:


> Morons.
> 
> Go figure.
> 
> I'm done here.


Theres only one moron here... if you didn't expect people to respond in this way to your unfounded ramble then why did you bother posting in the first place.

For your information the Cannondale is one of the stiffest bikes ever tested by Tour magazine (google if you want to find some comparisons):

weights: 1281g frame / 332g fork (8pts) 
lateral stiffness: 101Nm/° (15pts) 
BB stiffness: 107Nm/° (14pts) 
(lateral) fork stiffness: 41N/mm (9pts) 
comfort: 2pts 
Paint/Finish/manual/warranty: 5/4/2/3pts 
overall: 62pts 

Our shop has sold at least 5 System 6's so far and every person who has had a ride one will attest to this. I have closely examined the bikes whilst I have built them and found the finish quality to be high.

The only thing that lets the overall stiffness of the bike down is the FSA carbon bar that is specced on most of them. Definately a total noodle compared to a Zipp bar.

Btw, I am not a Cannondale owner and probably never will be, but lets just get our facts straight.


----------



## zamboni (Sep 11, 2003)

The guy is an idiot if he thinks Merlin is so good why looking at Cannondale bike ? I think he is bitter because of his repair bill on the Scalpel and this is the only place he can rant it to every one.BTW I don't think Systems six is his level of bike more like a R600.


----------



## merckxman (Jan 23, 2002)

*Merckx Blends*

The 2005 RACE model was aluminum with a carbon rear traingle.



MRFIXALL4 said:


> The whole point behind that simple test was because of Cannondale's claim about the stiffness of that ugly big-ass headtube. My Zipp stem and bar and Reynolds fork is more stiff in my opinion. You want to build a stiff bike for climbing you beef up the downtube and seattube not the toptube and headtube, You all sound like you fall right into the sales hype that these bike manufactures throw out there. By the way, the guy who owns the bike (System Six) is also the dealer and a good freind. I tend to trust his opinion more than you internet bozo's. He is a little dissapointed that I didn't want to buy a bike from him but totally understanding about it. And for those of you who have the Six/13, I wasn't including that bike in my rant, but like Eddy Merckx I'm not a big fan of blending materials, ie carbon with aluminum and other metals.


----------



## MRFIXALL4 (May 19, 2003)

Hey now, this is strange. I just bought one of these last week in the red, white, and black colors. I can't pick it up until next week but I'm excited. I was shooting for the Colnago Strada but it got to be a little over budget. Anyway, I'm tricking it out with full Campy and keeping it Italian as much as posible.


----------



## MRFIXALL4 (May 19, 2003)

Some of you are thinking too much about me and not enough about the bike. It seems to me Cannondale copied Ridley's headtube design but decided to take it one step farther because for some reason they have to have the fattest headtubes. The Six may just be the stiffest bike out there now but that doesn't mean it wins in the looks department, which is what alot of people factor in when buying a new bike. I didn't really cut down the model I just said I didn't like it and since I've been loyal to not only Cannondale's bikes but their clothing for several years now I felt I had a right to have a negative opinion about something they produced. I also think my Scalpel was a bad choice because I'm finding out that it isn't really a mountain bike. In my opinion it's more just a lite trail bike because it really can't take the abuse of real trails. When I put it through it's paces it always comes up broke. I'm actually getting slammed by my riding buds who think I'm turning into a puss because I have to go around alot of hucks and logs. As for the road, I sold my Merlin and decided to go with a Eddy Merckx Race for several reasons but overall better value for what I was getting and I liked the look better.


----------



## ctracer01 (Jan 5, 2006)

ok.

1) c-dale isn't the first to copy others. that said, i've never heard of ridley's oversized head tube before this year but that's not the point. don't bash them specifically when it's an industry-wide occurence.

2) if you are seriously considering form over function, i think you are seriously mis-guided in your bike selection priorities. but that's just my opinion. as for the bike's function, it is living up to what they say it does. it's stiff as hell.

3) yes, you did cut down the model. you called it a piece of sh%$

4) yes, you made a bad purchase. you are not supposed to huck things with a scalpel. that's not what it's designed for and before you bought the thing, you should have known [/U]that. that's not Cannondale's fault.

i'm not saying that cannondale is the end all be all company, but god man, give us a real reason to agree with you, other than "i just don't like it, it's not as pretty as that one over there"


----------



## zamboni (Sep 11, 2003)

Well said Ctracer01, Scalpel is a cross country bike and not for off road to begin with and obviously he made a wrong choice for the wrong bike and he still could not get it right. As I mentioned earlier Systems Six was not his choice and his budget, is his money and how he wants to spend it that is his decision but I don't appreciated his comments and bashing Cannondale product without a test ride on System Six that is just insane.


----------



## wv_rider (May 19, 2006)

MRFIXALL4 said:


> The whole point behind that simple test was because of Cannondale's claim about the stiffness of that ugly big-ass headtube. My Zipp stem and bar and Reynolds fork is more stiff in my opinion. You want to build a stiff bike for climbing you beef up the downtube and seattube not the toptube and headtube, You all sound like you fall right into the sales hype that these bike manufactures throw out there. By the way, the guy who owns the bike (System Six) is also the dealer and a good freind. I tend to trust his opinion more than you internet bozo's. He is a little dissapointed that I didn't want to buy a bike from him but totally understanding about it. And for those of you who have the Six/13, I wasn't including that bike in my rant, but like Eddy Merckx I'm not a big fan of blending materials, ie carbon with aluminum and other metals.


You say " You want to build a stiff bike for climbing you beef up the downtube and seat tube..." Did you look at the bike before you straddled it? The downtube is key to it all. The downtube is the biggest downtube that Cannondale has ever made. The only reason he headtube had to get bigger is that it had to connect to that massive downtube. By the way the seat tube did get bigger as well.

As for your love of Merlin, they were the ones that specifically made frames that would accept Cannondale's Headshok. Were those ugly too?


----------



## Cannon Ball (Dec 29, 2005)

The true stiffness test is not twist the handle bars, but grabbing the seat and top of head tube stem junction and twisting back and forth. Try this comparison between models and you will see a difference. Their is definitely a difference between my Six13 and the Sytem Six (albiet not much). Personally there is only one or two manufacturers that I would consider past my Dale. Look or Pinarello. And those are definitely more expensive. BTW isn't Merckx owned by some other manuf. or am I confused?


----------



## Hammerli (Jul 27, 2006)

MRFIXALL4 said:


> ...I tend to trust his opinion more than you internet bozo's.


Oh, the irony.


----------



## MRFIXALL4 (May 19, 2003)

Here's what I ended up buying. bye bye Crack'n'fail


----------



## jafran456 (Jul 8, 2005)

*Correct me if I'm wrong, but ....*

Correct me if I'm wrong, but wouldn't a bicycle with an aluminum rear end (such as the System6) be stiffer than one with a carbon rear end (such as the Merckx pictured)??? Doesn't the flexing of frame occur moreso in the rear half of the bicycle? Aluminum is stiffer than carbon, right? If I'm looking for a stiff bike, I would have chosen the System6 over the Merckx.


----------



## MRFIXALL4 (May 19, 2003)

Who says carbon flexes more than aluminum. No it doesn't. It dampens the sharp vibrations from the road surfaces but has no suspension properties. You can design flex into the frame by the shape of the tubes or you can make it as stiff as hard dick. I've already purchased the bike of choice so this thread should die now.


----------



## omniviper (Sep 18, 2004)

aluminum by itself isnt stiffer than carbon. the reason aluminum is stiff is because of the overall diameter of the tube (fat) which is why it's freaking stiff. 

and oh yeah, watch out for galvanic corrosion that merckx of yours if that indeed is alu


----------



## MRFIXALL4 (May 19, 2003)

I know about the corrosin thing. I own a 94 Specialized Epic with carbon tubes and aluminum luges. The frame is stiil in very rideable shape.


----------



## zamboni (Sep 11, 2003)

Let's not waste any time on this looser he made his choice by going with other brand and only time will tell.


----------



## MRFIXALL4 (May 19, 2003)

Before you go name calling why don't you take a good look at the new Cannondales. They definately have some quality control issues. I mean, they are skimping somewhere in the build process. My bud has a Team Scalpel and the joint where the headtube meets the seat tube is way off center. I have the 06 Scalpel 1000 and there is something off with my seat tube also. My back wheel won't sit center in between the stays and when you look at the bike from behind the seat tube doesn't look lined up straight. It ain't just me because other people have seen it. I can't use a tire larger than a 2.0 because it will rub the seat stay. Some lucky bastard on ebay will end up with mine because that's where it's going. I'll choose a frame builder like Ventana that isn't trying to work their way out of bankruptcy and cut corners next time. If you want to call that losing go ahead but every time I see someone riding a Cracknfail I be calling them losers too.


----------



## zamboni (Sep 11, 2003)

Perhaps you are the unlucky one from Cannondale list so far I had several road bikes from Cannondale and have no problems what so ever, you just don't go out and blast a MFG for their quality without going through your local rep to resolve your problems. Look around many members in this forum don't act like you we all share the comments because we all love and appreciated Cannondale products, BTW Scalpal is not for off road mountain bike just for cross country and how many championships had Cannondale mountain bike earn in the last few years.


----------

