# Pain in front of ankle. Cleat position?



## savagemann

So im new to road biking, and clipless pedals.
Not new to bikes though.
Never had any ankle pain before.
I've always positioned my feet straight on the pedals.
So when i got my first set of clipless, ultegra 6700 and shoes shimano ro87 i positioned the cleats in a neutral position.
Heel/toe straight with the cleat in the middle of the fore/aft range.
Went for a short 15 miles ride.
Everything felt great.
Next day i head out for a 30 mile ride.
Literally the second i clip in i feel pain in the front of my ankle on my left foot.
I loosened my shoe a tad and went on my way.
After about 10 minutes the pain went away.
The next day my ankle hurt in the same spot and at the same level of pain as the day before.
Talked with a coworker about it and he suggested moving my cleat slightly further back and lowering my seat a couple mm to compensate for the cleat adjustment.
I did this and rode a couple days later.
My ankle hurt up until that day and wasn't getting any better.
When i started my ride it was a bit tender and went away after about 10 minutes.
Since then it hast hurt at all.
Weird huh?
I've only ridden a couple times since then and the pain is completely gone.
The bike fit is good.
I do have a weird step when i walk.
If you look at the soles of my shoes they get worn on the outside edge.
Im thinking i may need to get some shims for my cleats to completely dial my fit in.
Im wondering if i should do so.
Any leads on shims for shimano spd sl cleats?
Does it seem like if the cleats are too far forward it could cause the pain i was having?


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## Cervelo S-5

savagemann said:


> So im new to road biking, and clipless pedals.
> Not new to bikes though.
> Never had any ankle pain before.
> I've always positioned my feet straight on the pedals.
> So when i got my first set of clipless, ultegra 6700 and shoes shimano ro87 i positioned the cleats in a neutral position.
> Heel/toe straight with the cleat in the middle of the fore/aft range.
> Went for a short 15 miles ride.
> Everything felt great.
> Next day i head out for a 30 mile ride.
> Literally the second i clip in i feel pain in the front of my ankle on my left foot.
> I loosened my shoe a tad and went on my way.
> After about 10 minutes the pain went away.
> The next day my ankle hurt in the same spot and at the same level of pain as the day before.
> Talked with a coworker about it and he suggested moving my cleat slightly further back and lowering my seat a couple mm to compensate for the cleat adjustment.
> I did this and rode a couple days later.
> My ankle hurt up until that day and wasn't getting any better.
> When i started my ride it was a bit tender and went away after about 10 minutes.
> Since then it hast hurt at all.
> Weird huh?
> I've only ridden a couple times since then and the pain is completely gone.
> The bike fit is good.
> I do have a weird step when i walk.
> If you look at the soles of my shoes they get worn on the outside edge.
> Im thinking i may need to get some shims for my cleats to completely dial my fit in.
> Im wondering if i should do so.
> Any leads on shims for shimano spd sl cleats?
> Does it seem like if the cleats are too far forward it could cause the pain i was having?


Hi Savagemann!


I do not know if I can help you, but perhaps I may offer some suggestions of things that you may investigate. You are likely aggravating some tissue known as synovium in the subtalar joint of your ankle. Outside edge wear on you shoes suggest that you are an "everter" or "supinator" of your foot and ankle when you walk; rather that an "inverter" or "pronator" what I have seen more commonly in practice as a Chiropractotor. My firrst question is do you have a high arch? This a more common in supinators as a rule vs.a fallen arch or a flatter foot which in more common in pronators (which is my issue).If yoy are a supinator walking, this may well be being translated on the bike as you push the pedals begging another question, is your ankle pain on the outside (more likely) or the inside? I am currently using the same cleats as you are and have taken to using the orthotics that I have had made in my cycling shoes. I did not have alot of ankle pain in the past even without them, but this may be related to pedaling style. I also play goal in hockey and have found that having them in my skates has helped immensely as in skates you are usually in a pronated or inside edge position which would aggravate me no end. If I kept my knees in close to my top tube, then I would be in a natural pronation position and over time I am sure that I would experience medial (inside) ankle pain. I would suggest that you examine your knee to top tube position and if it is wide out away from the top tube (indicating that your hips are externally or outwardly rotated) to train yourself to bring it closer to the center. If this is not the case make sure that you are not pushing down hard with the outside of your foot as this will put more pressure on the lateral or outside of your ankle possibly causing pain on a longer ride. 
The other suggestion I would have would be to have your foot casted in it's neutral position and the appropriate orthotic made for you cycling shoes and regular walking shoes as to improve the biomechanics of your foot and ankle. This is of course subject to your bike truly being fit properly for your body type! Custom orthotics can be made or ordered by a chiropractor, podiatrist or even a physiotherapist depending on where you are and what is available to you. Be warry of of the counter quick fixes if you have a more complicated foot issue as they may cause more problems over time than they can help!

I hpe that that this provides some insight & best of luck with this!


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## savagemann

Cervelo S-5 said:


> Hi Savagemann!
> 
> 
> I do not know if I can help you, but perhaps I may offer some suggestions of things that you may investigate. You are likely aggravating some tissue known as synovium in the subtalar joint of your ankle. Outside edge wear on you shoes suggest that you are an "everter" or "supinator" of your foot and ankle when you walk; rather that an "inverter" or "pronator" what I have seen more commonly in practice as a Chiropractotor. My firrst question is do you have a high arch? This a more common in supinators as a rule vs.a fallen arch or a flatter foot which in more common in pronators (which is my issue).If yoy are a supinator walking, this may well be being translated on the bike as you push the pedals begging another question, is your ankle pain on the outside (more likely) or the inside? I am currently using the same cleats as you are and have taken to using the orthotics that I have had made in my cycling shoes. I did not have alot of ankle pain in the past even without them, but this may be related to pedaling style. I also play goal in hockey and have found that having them in my skates has helped immensely as in skates you are usually in a pronated or inside edge position which would aggravate me no end. If I kept my knees in close to my top tube, then I would be in a natural pronation position and over time I am sure that I would experience medial (inside) ankle pain. I would suggest that you examine your knee to top tube position and if it is wide out away from the top tube (indicating that your hips are externally or outwardly rotated) to train yourself to bring it closer to the center. If this is not the case make sure that you are not pushing down hard with the outside of your foot as this will put more pressure on the lateral or outside of your ankle possibly causing pain on a longer ride.
> The other suggestion I would have would be to have your foot casted in it's neutral position and the appropriate orthotic made for you cycling shoes and regular walking shoes as to improve the biomechanics of your foot and ankle. This is of course subject to your bike truly being fit properly for your body type! Custom orthotics can be made or ordered by a chiropractor, podiatrist or even a physiotherapist depending on where you are and what is available to you. Be warry of of the counter quick fixes if you have a more complicated foot issue as they may cause more problems over time than they can help!
> 
> I hpe that that this provides some insight & best of luck with this!


First off, thanks for taking the time replying with such insightful information!

I would say my arch is fairly normal....maybe leaning towards being on the flatter side if anything.
Could be due to me being overweight for so many years.

The pain is more on the outside, towards the front of my ankle.

I've always forced myself to keep my knees in a fairly neutral position relative to the top tube.

Funny you mention that as i went for a 30+ mile ride today, and was paying close attention to how pressure on my feet changed as i brought my knees closer towards the top tube.
I made a serious effort to keep my knees slightly closer than i normally would.

This seemed to make my feet and ankle feel a little better.

Over the years, if i didn't pay attention to my knee position, i would naturally pedal with my knees pretty far from the top tube.
I have always payed attention to this and try to keep things fairly neutral and in line.

Since i have been, and plan to continue to spend alot of time on my bike i should look into getting fit for some orthodics.
I guess not just for riding, but for everyday use as well.

Thanks again.
You've given me alot to think about.
:thumbup:


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## Cervelo S-5

Hey Savagemann!

I am glad to pass on what i can if it helps you! You mentioned that you have been overwieght for some years and yes this would contribute to a more pronated or flattened foot. I would consider orthotics or at least an assessment a must. In my short experience on the bike, those who are somewhat overweight, or just plain bigger in general seem to unconsciously have their knees in a more outward position and this will definately affect the amount of lateral or outside pressure that is placed on your ankle. Continue to work on keeping your kness into your top tube as it will ease the lateral pressure as well as make you more aerodynamic in the saddle. Remember that unlike platform pedals, with clipless pedals, you are fairly "locked" into a position + or - 5 degrees or so and it is likely more important to be aware of your positioning. Your feet do not have the same freedom of movement as on a platform pedal and thus if yout knees are out and your foot more anchored, you will definately have more stress on the outside of your foot and ankle!. Ride with a friend behind you and have them hound you about your knees if they drift outward. I have done that for newer riders with similar riding habits and it has helped them become more aware of their positioning! 

Cheers and ride safely!


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## kbwh

Hi savageman, you seem to be on the right track. I suggest to read these two blog entries by fit maestro Steve Hogg for your further education:
POWER TO THE PEDAL – CLEAT POSITION » Bike Fit » Feet » Steve Hogg's Bike Fitting Website 
FOOT CORRECTION part 1: ARCH SUPPORT » Bike Fit » Feet » Steve Hogg's Bike Fitting Website

Good luck!


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## savagemann

kbwh said:


> Hi savageman, you seem to be on the right track. I suggest to read these two blog entries by fit maestro Steve Hogg for your further education:
> POWER TO THE PEDAL – CLEAT POSITION » Bike Fit » Feet » Steve Hogg's Bike Fitting Website
> FOOT CORRECTION part 1: ARCH SUPPORT » Bike Fit » Feet » Steve Hogg's Bike Fitting Website
> 
> Good luck!


Great links.
Just finished reading through the Power to the Pedal article. Gonna take some measurements and see how close I have my cleats set.

Gonna read the Foot Correction article after I get home this evening.

I did a ride on sunday. Only about 30 miles, but with around 2500' of climbing.
I tried to pay special attention to my knee positions relative to the top tube and make sure I was never getting "bow legged". Especially around when I was feeling fatigued.

Finished up the ride with no pain (besides in my muscles) and have felt good since.

Thanks for all your help guys.


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## Cervelo S-5

Glad to hear that Savagemann!:thumbsup:
Now I'm off to beat myself with simulated hill climbing on the trainer :cryin: Ah winter in the Canadian kootenays :mad2:

Cheers


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## savagemann

Cervelo S-5 said:


> Glad to hear that Savagemann!:thumbsup:
> Now I'm off to beat myself with simulated hill climbing on the trainer :cryin: Ah winter in the Canadian kootenays :mad2:
> 
> Cheers


I'll climb some footies for you this weekend......

Planning on a 40 mile ride with about 4500'!!!! eek

Wish me luck!


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