# "Dork Disk" question



## Opus51569 (Jul 21, 2009)

I realize most folks here remove the "dork disk" separating the cassette from the spokes. I'm just curious if anyone has experienced a subsequent over-shifting incident where the chain did, in fact, go into the spokes?


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## Mel Erickson (Feb 3, 2004)

This has happened to many people. Hence the CPSC dork disk requirement. Almost always because of poor maintenance and poorly adjusted RD. In other words, operator error.


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## logbiter (Sep 14, 2005)

Mel's right, if you adjust the limit screws, it shouldn't go into the spokes if something goes wrong.
I have shifted into my spokes on my mtn bike... totally operator error. Had to replace a couple of spokes to be safe.
On the other hand, if you get one with some cool LED's or reflective tape, by all means, keep it on (;


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## Opus51569 (Jul 21, 2009)

I don't doubt there is precedent for it. I'm just trying to get a sense of how often it happens for folks around here.


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## Oldteen (Sep 7, 2005)

Always taken off my dork discs, inc on my MTBs. Only had chain skip onto spokes once about 3 yrs ago- and that was when a stick got into the drivetrain. No way to know if a DD might have stopped that or not.


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## Mel Erickson (Feb 3, 2004)

I'm sure not often to folks who venture into Components, Wrenching. If you posted in General you'd probably get more hits. However, there's probably a fair number of people who would never admit to it.


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## bas (Jul 30, 2004)

Oldteen said:


> Always taken off my dork discs, inc on my MTBs. Only had chain skip onto spokes once about 3 yrs ago- and that was when a stick got into the drivetrain. No way to know if a DD might have stopped that or not.


something odd happened with out my DD once, but I was waiting at a light and it was in the top sprocket and I might have backed up slightly or did something and/or it was out of slight adjustment, but I ended in the spoke. so no damage done.


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## danl1 (Jul 23, 2005)

Opus51569 said:


> I realize most folks here remove the "dork disk" separating the cassette from the spokes. I'm just curious if anyone has experienced a subsequent over-shifting incident where the chain did, in fact, go into the spokes?


I've shifted into the spokes once on a hard uphill slog. Not my wrenching, but at least partly my fault as I was being silly with the super-granny on the bike. Chain was irretreivably wedged between cassette and spoke heads/elbows - couldn't get it out without removing the cassette. Luckily, not too far from civilization at the time. 

But here's the thing. Dork disc was still there, at least until the event destroyed it. I'm not sure that it didn't _help _the chain slide in there.


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## brblue (Jan 28, 2003)

ditto , but with my own wrenching 
and friction shifters.
back in the day with a 13x21 7 spd cassette and 52 42 chainwheels (i just couldn't afford to buy another cassette), that 21 cog obviously got used a lot. Once the chain got over the 21 while on the 52. big no-no but I was on a road with heavy traffic +short steep climb, therefore emergency shift. I think the chain actually got on top of the cog, then fell over.

I think the dork disk is only efficient if it's rigid enough and close enough to the large cog, to not let anything thicker than a chain plate, between it and the cog. A lot of the plastic thingies don;t leave that impression though, so probably in my case, a dork disk wouldn't have helped...


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## Ventruck (Mar 9, 2009)

When I was a total n00b giving my RD an adjustment, dork disk was pretty handy.
200miles later towards new derailleur, self-installed and adjusted, and then riding ~1,600mi, dork disk wasn't necessary.

I'm not trying to boast at all, but the dork disk is fair game for someone new to RD adjustments. Early mistakes are inevitable for some poeple. I kinda wish there was a way to have a dork disk, without it looking so dorky. Pretty legit item imo.


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## old_fuji (Mar 16, 2009)

is there any kind of disadvantage to leaving the dork disk on a set of wheels?

or better yet, has anyone designed a CF dork disk to be less dorky?


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## roadfix (Jun 20, 2006)

I've saved a couple of people before so they can continue on with their rides by turning their bikes into singlespeeds.


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## Mr. Versatile (Nov 24, 2005)

It's happened to me, but not for many years. That might be just luck, but I keep things adjusted to perfection on my bikes. Fortunately, when it's over shifted into the spokes I've never experienced any damage. I just keep pedaling to a stop, then get off & fix it. If you coast - you're toast.


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## FatTireFred (Jan 31, 2005)

I'm pretty certain it's happened to many... many n00b mechanics


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## wim (Feb 28, 2005)

old_fuji said:


> is there any kind of disadvantage to leaving the dork disk on a set of wheels?


Doesn't happen much anymore with everyone taking the disk off, but sometimes a section of broken, warped or loose dork disk would wedge itself between the spokes and largest sprocket. If that happens at speed, bad things can happen the instant the rider stops pedaling.


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## laffeaux (Dec 12, 2001)

I do my own wrenching and have never had i happen on a road bike. On the other hand I've had it happen several times on a mountain bike - not normally because of bad wrenching - normally because of bent derailler hangers or arms.

If you know how to adjust your bike, it's unlikely to happen under "normal" conditions.


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## brblue (Jan 28, 2003)

Mr. Versatile said:


> It's happened to me, but not for many years. That might be just luck, but I keep things adjusted to perfection on my bikes. Fortunately, when it's over shifted into the spokes I've never experienced any damage. I just keep pedaling to a stop, then get off & fix it. If you coast - you're toast.


When it happened to me, I was cranking it, so the chain got stuck between spokes and large cog. I just couldn't pedal any further and rear wheel locked, so I slid to a stop. 
All the drive side spoked got a second bent  but didn't break. It was a hard task to disengage the chain from between the spokes and sprocket.It could have ended a lot worse though..


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## Ventruck (Mar 9, 2009)

Mr. Versatile said:


> It's happened to me, but not for many years. That might be just luck, but I keep things adjusted to perfection on my bikes. Fortunately, when it's over shifted into the spokes I've never experienced any damage. I just keep pedaling to a stop, then get off & fix it. If you coast - you're toast.



Same here. Maybe because all my "lock-up"s are on inclines (figures, that's when I'd shift to such gears), but happening several times, I can't remark on what substantial damage has been done to the wheel despite the LBS mechanics saying (non-jokingly) "you better be careful, you may need a new wheel" when they take a close glance at the rear wheel. Nearly 2000miles later all that wheel needed was some truing after riding over some ball-breaking roads.

Feel the lock-up, pull the brakes right away - it's not as if I try to force it free by grinding it and continuing to pedal. I really can't imagine how so much damage would be expected to happen unless I was approaching the issue carelessly.


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## Opus51569 (Jul 21, 2009)

Thanks, everyone, for sharing your thoughts and experience. I think I'm going to try to make peace with being a "dork" and keep the disks on my bikes where they are...at least for now.


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## PlatyPius (Feb 1, 2009)

old_fuji said:


> is there any kind of disadvantage to leaving the dork disk on a set of wheels?
> 
> or better yet, has anyone designed a CF dork disk to be less dorky?


Mavic has a dork disc that is smaller than the large cog, so it's essentially invisible.

I've had incidents where the chain went off; almost always while mountain biking. Figured out that I was whacking things with my bike and just slightly bending the derailleur hanger, changing the angle, and then the chain would go into the spokes when I shifted to the 32.

Only other time was on a carbon bike I had. I was cranking up a hill, trying to not die (uber-clyde here...), and I apparently flexed the rear end of the bike enough that the chain dropped off of the cog and into the spokes. Hadn't happened before, and didn't happen again.


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## asad137 (Jul 29, 2009)

PlatyPius said:


> Mavic has a dork disc that is smaller than the large cog, so it's essentially invisible.


Seems that it wouldn't be very effective, no? If the derailleur was poorly adjusted presumably the chain could fall off the inside edge of the large cog and then fall onto the inside edge of such a disc...

Asad


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## PlatyPius (Feb 1, 2009)

asad137 said:


> Seems that it wouldn't be very effective, no? If the derailleur was poorly adjusted presumably the chain could fall off the inside edge of the large cog and then fall onto the inside edge of such a disc...
> 
> Asad


The disk has a wide flat area with a small lip at the back. The chain doesn't go into the spokes.


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## dave699 (Oct 21, 2009)

If the low limit screw is adjusted properly, the dork disk shouldn't be necessary.

Leaving it on "just in case" is fine, but I've never seen a special device on the HIGH end "just in case" the chain drops off the small cog and into the frame, and that would be the equivalent on the other side.

Methinks it's just the manufacturer, CPSC, and nanny-state mentality looking out for all of us. When I build a bike for a customer, I always remove the dork disk. If they diddle with the limit screws, well, that's a possibility, but they might diddle with all the other bolts and screws on the bike, too, and I don't take precautions against THAT.


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## Kerry Irons (Feb 25, 2002)

*No nanny*



dave699 said:


> I've never seen a special device on the HIGH end "just in case" the chain drops off the small cog and into the frame, and that would be the equivalent on the other side.
> 
> Methinks it's just the manufacturer, CPSC, and nanny-state mentality looking out for all of us.


Wrong on both counts. Years ago there were freewheels (and maybe cassettes) built with a mini dork disc between the smallest cog and the frame. We do a "recycle a bicycle" event a couple of times a year to provide bikes for charity, and you see these occasionally.

As to either the CPSC or the nanny state, Schwinn was putting massive chrome steel dork discs on back in the mid-60s. It was strictly a device to reduce maintenance and keep people from coming back to the shop to have their derailleur adjusted after they bent it by throwing the bike on the ground.


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## dave699 (Oct 21, 2009)

Kerry Irons said:


> Wrong on both counts. Years ago there were freewheels (and maybe cassettes) built with a mini dork disc between the smallest cog and the frame. We do a "recycle a bicycle" event a couple of times a year to provide bikes for charity, and you see these occasionally.
> 
> As to either the CPSC or the nanny state, Schwinn was putting massive chrome steel dork discs on back in the mid-60s. It was strictly a device to reduce maintenance and keep people from coming back to the shop to have their derailleur adjusted after they bent it by throwing the bike on the ground.


Makes sense.


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## bas (Jul 30, 2004)

dave699 said:


> Makes sense.


+2
:thumbsup: :thumbsup:


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## tom_h (May 6, 2008)

Kerry Irons said:


> ... Schwinn was putting massive chrome steel dork discs on back in the mid-60s. It was strictly a device to reduce maintenance and keep people from coming back to the shop to have their derailleur adjusted after they bent it by throwing the bike on the ground.


Hah-hah, those were _funny_ looking by today's standards. Even many 80s (?) bikes seemed to have those humongous oversized disks. They seem at least 2x the diameter of the largest cog.


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## czuber (Apr 9, 2013)

I have been told by some to remove my Yellowing "Dork Disc" but I know Zero when it comes to adjusting this bike. I'm not even sure if I can get it off. I would hate to remove it to be cool and then something go awry because I missed a chain issue.


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## AndreyT (Dec 1, 2011)

Opus51569 said:


> Thanks, everyone, for sharing your thoughts and experience. I think I'm going to try to make peace with being a "dork" and keep the disks on my bikes where they are...at least for now.


Keeping the spoke protector disc is perceived on the road as a universally recognizable statement agains poseurs. Cyclists that keep their disks are very respected and receive lots of kudos from other cyclists on the road. 

However, in spite of all that useless theoretizing, the main reason for spoke protector disc removal is the simple fact they get hideously dirty very quickly. It requires a huge amount of determination to keep a spoke protector disc clean. That's the moment most people usually cut it off.


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## tednugent (Apr 26, 2010)

I have been black dork disks (molded with black pigment). I forgot who makes it/which wheels come with them


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## ph0enix (Aug 12, 2009)

czuber said:


> I have been told by some to remove my Yellowing "Dork Disc" but I know Zero when it comes to adjusting this bike. I'm not even sure if I can get it off. I would hate to remove it to be cool and then something go awry because I missed a chain issue.


Use a wire cutter to remove the disk while destroying it at the same time. No need to adjust anything.


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## Creakyknees (Sep 21, 2003)

I've been riding and racing on this bike all year and have had zero shifting problems. 










https://forums.roadbikereview.com/c...annondale-pics-here-27038-22.html#post4236087


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## wim (Feb 28, 2005)

Kerry Irons said:


> As to either the CPSC or the nanny state, Schwinn was putting massive chrome steel dork discs on back in the mid-60s. It was strictly a device to reduce maintenance and keep people from coming back to the shop to have their derailleur adjusted after they bent it by throwing the bike on the ground.


Be that as it may, the spoke protector ("dork") disc is now a Federal Safety Standard enforced by the CPSC. New bicycles without them are subject to recall. See third toy from the top.

Toy Recalls


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## looigi (Nov 24, 2010)

I'll let you in on a little secret, strictly on a nerd-to-know basis. 

Running a dork disk connotes social obliviousness that opens you to deserved ridicule. I'll take the occasional ripped off RD, or even a crash, over the continued humiliating social ostracism.


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## mpre53 (Oct 25, 2011)

czuber said:


> I have been told by some to remove my Yellowing "Dork Disc" but I know Zero when it comes to adjusting this bike. I'm not even sure if I can get it off. I would hate to remove it to be cool and then something go awry because I missed a chain issue.


Before too long, it's gonna crack, and the choice will be keeping half of it on the hub, or pulling off the other half.


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## DonDenver (May 30, 2007)

czuber said:


> I have been told by some to remove my Yellowing "Dork Disc" *but I know Zero when it comes to adjusting this bike. I'm not even sure if I can get it off. I would hate to remove it to be cool *and then something go awry because I missed a chain issue.


And there you have it!

Not to pick on you individually czuber, but in my mind you have highlighted the "dork" factor largely represented by the disk. The disk represents not taking the time to hone basic skills of maintaining a bicycle. And that's not cool. One look at the disk and I factor the rider. "Fred" comes to mind.

Practically anyone can straddling a saddle, pedal, balance and shift. But does that alone represent a cyclist? Knowing what that disk actually represents from the OEM and LBS perspective alone should be inspiration enough to remove it... 

Just say no to disks. Learning how to remove it will be a quantum jump in cycling wellness


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## nOOky (Mar 20, 2009)

I prefer to leave mine on. I enjoy being called a Fred by the internet experts. My derailleur is also properly adjusted.


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## JCavilia (Sep 12, 2005)

nOOky said:


> I prefer to leave mine on. I enjoy being called a Fred by the internet experts. My derailleur is also properly adjusted.


You're a Fred.

And I'm not even an internet expert.


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## nOOky (Mar 20, 2009)

No I'm not, I have never done a Grand Fondo, with or without dork disk. I should put all my reflectors back on, maybe even two sets on the wheels to balance it out.


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## Len J (Jan 28, 2004)

40 years of riding and never had a problem & never had a dork disk. Only problems I have seen were a.) improperly set limit screw and bent der. hanger.


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## JCavilia (Sep 12, 2005)

nOOky said:


> No I'm not, I have never done a Grand Fondo, with or without dork disk. I should put all my reflectors back on, maybe even two sets on the wheels to balance it out.


It's Gran Fondo. You're such a Fred, you can't even spell in Eye-talian. 

Is a Fred in Italy a "Federico"?


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## nOOky (Mar 20, 2009)

I won't even reply, I don't want to make any more miss-sppelllinggs.


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## JCavilia (Sep 12, 2005)

nOOky said:


> I won't even reply, I don't want to make any more miss-sppelllinggs.


Fa niente, amico.


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## wim (Feb 28, 2005)

looigi said:


> Running a dork disk connotes social obliviousness that opens you to deserved ridicule.


But there's the obvious corollary: if you know that and run a dork disc anyway, you clearly understand irony. And that marks you as very cool indeed.


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## Love Commander (Aug 20, 2009)

wim said:


> But there's the obvious corollary: if you know that and run a dork disc anyway, you clearly understand irony. And that marks you as very cool indeed.


Does this apply to wearing socks with sandals?


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## wim (Feb 28, 2005)

Love Commander said:


> Does this apply to wearing socks with sandals?


Absolutely! I wear socks with sandals. Always have, always will.


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## AndreyT (Dec 1, 2011)

Love Commander said:


> Does this apply to wearing socks with sandals?


There's has never been any rule or guideline that would involve socks and sandals. It has always been considered inappropriate to wear dress socks with short pants. Later, some ignoramuses managed to mis-reinterpret it, giving birth to the whole socks & sandals disaster. In the fertile environment of US cultural void it began to bloom, eventually becoming one of the most recognizable (and universally ridiculed) chiefly American phenomena.


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## wim (Feb 28, 2005)

AndreyT said:


> In the fertile environment of US cultural void it began to bloom, eventually becoming one of the most recognizable (and universally ridiculed) chiefly American phenomena.


Don't quite understand this—is the chiefly American phenomenon *not* wearing socks with sandals?

When I grew up in Central Europe, sandals were worn in the warmer months with both short and long pants. Either way, one wore socks with sandals. The logic was that one should always put a layer of easily washable fabric between a body part that exuded malodorous substances and something you wore that was not easily washed. The idea of putting one's freshly washed feet back on a bed of sweat-soaked and filthy leather or leather imitation was distasteful. I'm sure all this is ancient history now. People happily all over the world wear sandals without socks and are not considered bums.


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## LAW.S.T (May 15, 2012)

i came here for amusement. I was not disappointed


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## looigi (Nov 24, 2010)

wim said:


> Absolutely! I wear socks with sandals. Always have, always will.


Only counts if you're doing it ironically, which I kinda doubt if you've always done it.


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## wim (Feb 28, 2005)

looigi said:


> Only counts if you're doing it ironically, which I kinda doubt if you've always done it.


Your doubts are well-founded. I grew up in a place where _not_ wearing socks with any kind of shoe was considered low-life. So my parents insisted on me wearing socks, even with sandals. But now I live in the U.S. and I am aware of the irony.


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## nOOky (Mar 20, 2009)

I read in a woman's magazine that socks with sandals are only acceptable if you are wearing pants. Sandals with shorts requires no socks. I think it was SELF magazine, so it must be gossipole, and everyone must comply.


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## Love Commander (Aug 20, 2009)

nOOky said:


> I read in a woman's magazine that socks with sandals are only acceptable if you are wearing pants. Sandals with shorts requires no socks. I think it was SELF magazine, so it must be gossipole, and everyone must comply.


What if those pants are pleated/cuffed khakis? Does the dorkiness* circle back to cool or does it implode under its own dorkmass and create a dorksingularity?



*Irony cannot save pleated and cuffed khaki pants**
**However, if the wearer is 70+ years old, pleated/cuffed khaki pants are acceptable, as they're a required part of the uniform at that point.


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## Love Commander (Aug 20, 2009)

wim said:


> Your doubts are well-founded. I grew up in a place where _not_ wearing socks with any kind of shoe was considered low-life. So my parents insisted on me wearing socks, even with sandals. But now I live in the U.S. and I am aware of the irony.


Does this still apply to going sockless when wearing clipless sandals while riding ones recumbent? I mean, we all know recumbent riders are low-lifes (literally), but that doesn't mean they shouldn't recognize well-established social conventions.


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