# I think Fabian is intimidated by a certain young Slovak....



## thechriswebb (Nov 21, 2008)

Sagan Unperturbed By Cancellara Comments Ahead Of Milan-San Remo | Cyclingnews.com


----------



## LostViking (Jul 18, 2008)

thechriswebb said:


> Sagan Unperturbed By Cancellara Comments Ahead Of Milan-San Remo | Cyclingnews.com


And why wouldn't he be? Sagan is the infant terribel (French sp?) of the peloton these days. You would be a fool not to be aware of the threat posed by that certain young Slovak - especially if you have been injured and have had less than stellar results lately.
Spartacus will rally - but he is not alone in feeling a certain amount of angst when a kid comes along and shows every sign of being the next great champion of our time - hell if I were in Fabu's cycling shoes right now I'd be less than happy about facing Sagan in a one-day event. Boonen's is hurting - Sagan is just warming up. Intimidating indeed.


----------



## spookyload (Jan 30, 2004)

Everyone is speaking of him like he is a classics god. Just looked at his palamares, and I don't see a single win in a classic. Lots of placings but no wins. What does that tell me? He has no team to win. You can scrap to get placings, but it takes a team to get the wins. In his wins have you ever seen Cannondale deliver him to the line? If he can get a solid team, he will be unstoppable.


----------



## Salsa_Lover (Jul 6, 2008)

Had not had to protect Nibali in the past, he would probably had more wins and less placings.

But this year there's no Nibali to protect on his team...


----------



## weltyed (Feb 6, 2004)

Wrong read. 

Spartacus is angry that his move has been identified and kept him off the top block. This is more him airing his grievance that nobody works with him, they just hitch a ride on his locomotive. 

It's also a heads-up to all other riders. Basically, if you get in a break with me, expect to work. If you get in a break with Sagan and me, expect to work and be beaten by my motoring skills or sagans sprint. 

It's also setting fanspectations, as well as going on the excuse offensive.


----------



## LostViking (Jul 18, 2008)

I don't think Sagan was held back by his team last year - seems he attacked a lot and featured well in most races - I suspect it"s more about maturity and just increasing strength and endurance.

Also, I suspect we are in a transitional stage - a generational shift with a new crop of younger stronger riders emerging and eclipsing the veterans. Spartacus has been covered and his wheel stuck to like crazy glue since he went on his classics rampage - it's to be expected - always happens to the most feared riders.

Sagan may not have the long list of wins of a veteran, but he has all the hallmarks of becoming one of the top riders of his generation. People would clamp on to his wheel as well - if only they could keep up!


----------



## weltyed (Feb 6, 2004)

LostViking said:


> Also, I suspect we are in a transitional stage - a generational shift with a new crop of younger stronger riders emerging and eclipsing the veterans. Spartacus has been covered and his wheel stuck to like crazy glue since he went on his classics rampage - it's to be expected - always happens to the most feared riders.
> 
> Sagan may not have the long list of wins of a veteran, but he has all the hallmarks of becoming one of the top riders of his generation. People would clamp on to his wheel as well - if only they could keep up!


/\this.

just like the new qb and offensive schemes in the nfl.


----------



## davidka (Dec 12, 2001)

Fabian's comments worked. Sagan did a lot of work in the finale. Fabian himself was not quite able to take advantage but I bet Gerald Coileck is pretty happy about it.


----------



## dnice (Jul 12, 2012)

davidka said:


> Fabian's comments worked. Sagan did a lot of work in the finale. Fabian himself was not quite able to take advantage but I bet Gerald Coileck is pretty happy about it.


exactly right! fabian played the card that gave him the best possibility of defeating sagan...and it almost worked.


----------



## Local Hero (Jul 8, 2010)

Looks like Spartacus tried his hand as a wheelsucker and still couldn't beat Sagan.


----------



## davidka (Dec 12, 2001)

Local Hero said:


> Looks like Spartacus tried his hand as a wheelsucker and still couldn't beat Sagan.


He made a move on the Poggio and Sagan covered it. Sagan made a move and Fabian covered it. Hardly wheel sucker stuff. Fabian going 2nd and 3rd on a day like this is hardly a failure.


----------



## T0mi (Mar 2, 2011)

LostViking said:


> Sagan is the infant terribel (French sp?) of the peloton these days.


enfant terrible


----------



## new2rd (Aug 8, 2010)

It almost always sucks being first loser, but in those conditions after a long day that must suck. Being a marked rider makes it almost impossible to win in yesterdays senario, no one is going to give Sagan a chance to rest behind a wheel. As far as Cannondale not having a team to get him up there, I'm not sure I agree. Besides Sky showing superhuman strength, Cannondale has been working for the start of the gun when Sagan is favored. A few hours of work keeping him safe before they leave him near the front. Not bad if you ask me.


----------



## Fireform (Dec 15, 2005)

Sagan made a simple mistake in jumping for the line too early--that's on him, not his team. Too bad for him, but he will learn from it. Everyone in that front bunch rode a heroic race.


----------



## atpjunkie (Mar 23, 2002)

he's young. these errors in judgement (jumping to early) will decrease over time


----------



## Bill2 (Oct 14, 2007)

Fireform said:


> Sagan made a simple mistake in jumping for the line too early--that's on him, not his team. Too bad for him, but he will learn from it. Everyone in that front bunch rode a heroic race.


Absolutely


----------



## Chainstay (Mar 13, 2004)

Fireform said:


> Sagan made a simple mistake in jumping for the line too early--that's on him, not his team. Too bad for him, but he will learn from it. Everyone in that front bunch rode a heroic race.


I wonder if Sagan and Spartacus knew that that was Ciolek and that Ciolek is one of the fastest guys inside 250m. Were they hoping to shake Ciolek? It didn't work. Ciolek played this one to perfection, holding wheels while Sagan and Cancellera exchanged attacks. Good on him

MSR is always a great race.


----------



## aclinjury (Sep 12, 2011)

Local Hero said:


> Looks like Spartacus tried his hand as a wheelsucker and still couldn't beat Sagan.


Looks like Coileck sucked both Sagan's and Spartacus' wheels and it worked.


----------



## aclinjury (Sep 12, 2011)

new2rd said:


> It almost always sucks being first loser, but in those conditions after a long day that must suck. Being a marked rider makes it almost impossible to win in yesterdays senario, no one is going to give Sagan a chance to rest behind a wheel. As far as Cannondale not having a team to get him up there, I'm not sure I agree. Besides Sky showing superhuman strength, Cannondale has been working for the start of the gun when Sagan is favored. A few hours of work keeping him safe before they leave him near the front. Not bad if you ask me.


yeah Sagan is a marked man. Guys ain't gonna let him suck wheels anymore. And no doubt the fact that he didn't win might have had something to do with him not being able to suck wheel and actually had to work.

I wonder had Sagan been more friendly and behaved nicely and be amicable, I wonder if Cancellara might have let him sucked his wheels. I tend to think so.


----------



## Salsa_Lover (Jul 6, 2008)

Chainstay said:


> I wonder if Sagan and Spartacus knew that that was Ciolek and that Ciolek is one of the fastest guys inside 250m. Were they hoping to shake Ciolek? It didn't work. Ciolek played this one to perfection, holding wheels while Sagan and Cancellera exchanged attacks. Good on him
> 
> MSR is always a great race.


Exactly, like on the old days,your worst nightmare would be if you let Oscarito or Zabel to get into de head group over the Poggio


----------



## Fignon's Barber (Mar 2, 2004)

Fireform said:


> Sagan made a simple mistake in jumping for the line too early--that's on him, not his team. Too bad for him, but he will learn from it. Everyone in that front bunch rode a heroic race.


I think sagan's error came with about 1k to go, when he put in that half-hearted attack that got him a 15m lead. He paid for that in the final sprint. He was the best sprinter in the group, and should have marked wheels to ensure a sprint.


----------



## foto (Feb 7, 2005)

aclinjury said:


> Looks like Coileck sucked both Sagan's and Spartacus' wheels and it worked.


Stupid tactics. Ciolek should have attacked over and over from 4k to go like a real man.


----------



## foto (Feb 7, 2005)

Fignon's Barber said:


> I think sagan's error came with about 1k to go, when he put in that half-hearted attack that got him a 15m lead. He paid for that in the final sprint. He was the best sprinter in the group, and should have marked wheels to ensure a sprint.



Pretty much. He probably could have won out of the bunch anyway if they had gotten caught. There wasn't really a need to attack the little group, all he really had to do was just mark Cancellara and Stannard.


----------



## davidka (Dec 12, 2001)

foto said:


> There wasn't really a need to attack the little group, all he really had to do was just mark Cancellara and Stannard.


I think he saw a gap behind him when he closed to Stannard and judged the group to be cooked. Probably also figured that any work he did had to be matched by the others. He's had success outside of 300m before so it wasn't really a bad move. We would be talking about it in a different light if he had won.


----------



## 32and3cross (Feb 28, 2005)

aclinjury said:


> Looks like Coileck sucked both Sagan's and Spartacus' wheels and it worked.


You really don't get bike racing do you?


----------



## foto (Feb 7, 2005)

davidka said:


> I think he saw a gap behind him when he closed to Stannard and judged the group to be cooked. Probably also figured that any work he did had to be matched by the others. He's had success outside of 300m before so it wasn't really a bad move. We would be talking about it in a different light if he had won.


It was a mistake, and he wouldn't have done it if he hadn't underestimated his opponents.


----------



## Local Hero (Jul 8, 2010)

aclinjury said:


> Looks like Coileck sucked both Sagan's and Spartacus' wheels and it worked.


Who is Coileck?


----------



## Local Hero (Jul 8, 2010)

davidka said:


> He made a move on the Poggio and Sagan covered it. Sagan made a move and Fabian covered it. Hardly wheel sucker stuff. Fabian going 2nd and 3rd on a day like this is hardly a failure.


Yes I saw the attacks and yes I agree that it's no flop. 

The subtext to my comment was Fabio's public statement about Sagan being a wheelsucker during the buildup to the race. Yet as the racers closed in on the line it looked to me that Spartacus could have pulled through and thrown down another attack. I was on the edge of my seat waiting for his attack! But he didn't; he sat in and waited for the sprint. 

If Fabio's tactic had worked we would be calling him brilliant. 

Since the tactic didn't work--since Sagan ended up doing the lion's share of the work over the final few kilomters and still beat the swiss hair model--I think my comment is fair.


----------



## foto (Feb 7, 2005)




----------



## Fireform (Dec 15, 2005)

foto said:


>


Now that's the kind of commentary we could use more of.


----------



## LostViking (Jul 18, 2008)

*Fabu on the market again?*

Sounded like he was considering jumping back to Riis and Saxo-Tink last year - this might help his thought process along:

Report: RadioShack To End Team Sponsorship | Cyclingnews.com


----------



## bruin11 (May 21, 2004)

Thanks. I had to look him up on Youtube.

https://www.youtube.com/user/cosmocatalano?feature=watch


----------



## 88 rex (Mar 18, 2008)

foto said:


>


Awesome!


----------



## JSR (Feb 27, 2006)

foto said:


> video


"rank freddery"

Gotta love it.

JSR


----------



## foto (Feb 7, 2005)

bruin11 said:


> Thanks. I had to look him up on Youtube.
> 
> https://www.youtube.com/user/cosmocatalano?feature=watch


Yup, Cosmo has got some excellent race analyses.


----------



## JackDaniels (Oct 4, 2011)

One of the better Cancellara analyses:

Analysis: Can classics Cancellara rise again?


----------



## davidka (Dec 12, 2001)

foto said:


> It was a mistake, and he wouldn't have done it if he hadn't underestimated his opponents.


Still disagree. For all we know, Sagan's pull and Fabian's subsequent chase might have been the dig that prevented Fabian from attacking again. Option 2 would've been to wait for Fabian to go. Sagan (and everyone else) knew that he _had_ to attack before the sprint to win and being forced to shut him down would've made Sagan's loss a sure thing.

He believed he could have beaten Coilek and got surprised. Based on his win percentage against him it was a safe bet that he'd probably make again tomorrow. Nobody wins 100% of the time.


----------



## foto (Feb 7, 2005)

davidka said:


> Still disagree. For all we know, Sagan's pull and Fabian's subsequent chase might have been the dig that prevented Fabian from attacking again. Option 2 would've been to wait for Fabian to go. Sagan (and everyone else) knew that he _had_ to attack before the sprint to win and being forced to shut him down would've made Sagan's loss a sure thing.
> 
> He believed he could have beaten Coilek and got surprised. Based on his win percentage against him it was a safe bet that he'd probably make again tomorrow. Nobody wins 100% of the time.


Sagan closed all the gaps. When Cancellara attacked and when Stannard attacked. I disagree that chasing Canellara one more time would have sealed the deal for Sagan. In fact, Cancellara hasn't won a race with a late attack in like 3 years. However Sagan has hung with him and outsprinted him in the past.

In my opinion, Sagan was mentally vexed with being the heavy favorite and I would guess it was one of the most physically intense and tactically challenging races he is been in. He clearly spent a bunch of energy heading into the finale that gained him nothing.


----------



## Gnarly 928 (Nov 19, 2005)

weltyed said:


> well as going on the excuse offensive.


 That's a great term... "The Excuse offensive"....and not just for Canc... but for how many other guys? How often have you heard (or launched your own) Excuse Offensive? maybe a million times during my own time doing races have I heard or lead out with..."....Oh I feel OK, but for the past ______________, I've been_______________, so...." fill in your own terms....


----------



## JackDaniels (Oct 4, 2011)

I'm so intimidated by Peter Sagan that I will just have to ride him off my wheel.


----------



## atpjunkie (Mar 23, 2002)

looks like Fabian wasn't too skeered this AM


----------



## spookyload (Jan 30, 2004)

atpjunkie said:


> looks like Fabian wasn't too skeered this AM


Very true. He did what only he can do and that is ride away from the best pro's in the world chasing as a group.


----------



## YZ 343 (Oct 4, 2011)

Sagan was there...and then he wasn't. Impressive ride. Boonen starting to look good also.


----------

