# Winter jacket?



## aranesp (Jan 6, 2009)

looking for a winter jacket for riding around 20 degrees (f).

any suggestions?


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## zriggle (Apr 16, 2008)

What’s your price range? Does it need to be waterproof?


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## aranesp (Jan 6, 2009)

water proof is not a must. If there is a good chance of rain, I doubt I would ride outside at 20 degrees.

I was looking at the sugoi TI jacket. looks warm.


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## zriggle (Apr 16, 2008)

aranesp said:


> water proof is not a must. If there is a good chance of rain, I doubt I would ride outside at 20 degrees.
> 
> I was looking at the sugoi TI jacket. looks warm.


20 degrees, no rain requirement, and you’re looking at $200? I’m guessing that since you’re asking here, you don’t have any winterweight base layers, and don’t have a windblock softshell jacket.

First rule, it’s all about layering. Get a good baselayer. My suggestion would be IceBreaker, Ibex, or SmartWool (in that order) or a Craft ProWarm if you must have a synthetic. IceBreaker makes them in different weights, which is nice — not sure about the others. They’re all roughly the same price, about $60-80 for a top. 
_Your best bet is to find it cheap online, then have Moosejaw price-match it, because they [1] price match and [2] pay for return shipping if you decide you don’t like it and [3] have free shipping over $50 (IIRC)._

After the winter-weight baselayer, throw on a long sleeve jersey if you find that you need it. I’ve got a short sleeve wool jersey that I throw on for REALLY cold commutes.

Next, any windproof shell will do. I’m partial to GORE, and their Phantom jacket is truly nice. Removable sleeves, completely windproof, and provides some insulation of its own. If you’re looking for something with an extreme cut, their Xenon AS jacket isn’t much more. _You can get both cheap at Probikekit._

I have an assortment of the above. I can ride my older-model Phantom _jersey_ down to 40 all by its lonesome, and down to 30 with a light-weight long sleeve base layer. Haven’t had to throw on the wool yet.


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## Kolossal (Feb 12, 2007)

With baselayers, this is my best winter jacket: http://www.swrvestore.com/servlet/Detail?no=104 Actually I have the original, not the ES model. Sizes run a little large, I'm 6' and have a small.

But again, it will depend on your intensity, how you cope with cold, etc. I don't think there's any recipe to be confortable in cold weather. Still, this jacket is nice.


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## rmsmith (Feb 15, 2007)

aranesp said:


> looking for a winter jacket for riding around 20 degrees (f).
> 
> any suggestions?


Look no further than the Assos FuguJack, and shop eBay for a deal.


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## MB1 (Jan 27, 2004)

I agree on the layering; in the fall, winter and spring our outer layer is always the same (well when we aren't in Florida) and we adjust the inner layers for the various conditions we encounter.

BTW we love our Showers Pass jackets.

BTW2 at 20 degrees you are unlikely to encounter rain! Snow yes, rain not so much.


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## TiCruiser (Feb 21, 2009)

I've had a Gore Windstopper Jacket that is probably the predecessor of the phantom for 5-6 years now and it has worked great. Use it in the 20's with only a long sleeve wool jersey fairly regularly.


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## King Arthur (Nov 13, 2009)

*jackets*

Assos Fugujack is the king of the jacket world, but it is extremely expensive! Layering is the best way to go. I use the Giordana system and place a nice specialized heavy wieight jacket on top. Nice and toasty warm


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## E 12 (Jul 13, 2008)

Gore Bike Wear Tool jacket. I wear it into the teens easily with just an Icebreaker base layer. Plus, you don't have to take out a second mortgage like you do with the Assos gear.


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## zriggle (Apr 16, 2008)

E 12 said:


> Gore Bike Wear Tool jacket. I wear it into the teens easily with just an Icebreaker base layer. Plus, you don't have to take out a second mortgage like you do with the Assos gear.


agreed!


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## mjdwyer23 (Mar 18, 2009)

GBW Tool jacket or Phantom II. Both awesome pieces of gear.


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## Mr. Versatile (Nov 24, 2005)

I just wear an unlined windbreaker jacket. To do a wind proof test hole the fabric up to your mouth and try to forcefully breathe through it. 

As others have said, what you wear under the jacket is lots more important. My favorite under layer is from www.sahalie.com. They're called "Butterfleece." They're quite inexpensive, fit nicely, and zip up into a nice turtleneck. They're also extremely light. By that I mean they weigh very little, not that the material is thin.


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## Eclectus (Dec 27, 2009)

Assos airBlock 851 is rated by mfr 32-46 F. Depending on your metabolic rate and lengths of rides, it can go lower. On the other hand, some riders, like me, find that its strategically-placed windblocking panels, rather than full body coverage, limit is cold-weather utility. It's very stretchy, so it hugs your body without feeling constrictive in the slightest. 

Because Assos doesn't update its lines frequently, and it controls production to avoid overstocks, it's hard to find great deals. On the other hand, quality and durability are superb, so you should think in terms of long-term cost amortization.

Gore Bike Wear jackets are much easier to find on deep-discount, from time to time, if you are patient. 

GBW has copycatted (shrewdly) Assos in a couple regards. They make "bike fit" clothes, and their bottoms use Assos' proprietary Elastic Interface Technology pads (joint Assos-Cytech partnership). I have found the EIT pads on GBW, Craft and DeMarchi bibshorts and tights to be as comfy as Assos home-brand S2 and S5s: all are smooth enough not to need any lubing except for very long rides. 

I wear mostly Windstopper (not all GBW), and some GTX. Great stuff.

I've been using a Showers Pass Elite 2.0 for the past month. So far, it's been terrific in dry and wet conditions ranging from 25 F to 50F. At the lower range, I had the pitzips open, the front zips partially open, and had space for more layering, so I could see this being usable to 0F or below. On the warm end of the spectrum, lots of people have used theirs in the 60s and 70s for warm rainy conditions and raved.

The 2.0 uses eVent, a GTX-lineage membrane. eVent uses Robert Gore's "expanded (porous) PolyTetraFluoroEthylene", out-of-patent. Other cos use this amazing membrane too. 

ePTFE in pure form gets clogged with sweat oils and salts rapidly. Various methods of coating it have been tried. GE's method may be better than GTX's. It's not clear because the last test (publicly viewable results) was in 2000, at which time eVent was more breathable than GTX XCR, but Gore responded with new reportedly more breathable versions, e.g. Paclite, Pro and Performance.

Also GTX is now being made in stretchable form, which is really cool. eVent not, yet.

I have used GTX Pro, and it is very breathable.

However, the Showers Pass Elite 2.0 (eVent) is worth considering. Mainly because, even if eVent and GTX are now equivalently breathable, the 2.0 jacket per se has unsurpassed bulk-air-moisture removal, which is even more important than fabric/membrane breathability: two-way front zipper allows top-down AND bottom-up unzipping, velcro cuffs can be cinched tight or progressively loosened to give you airflow scoops, pitzips, and a back vent. In GTX, I think the Taiga is the only shell that has all these features ($349 Cdn).

Secondly, REI now carries it. At 10% membership dividend, it's effective price is just over $200. On members' 20% sale, you can get it for $184. To top it off, REI has a complete customer satisfaction return policy. No 12-month mfr-warrantee deadline. This doesn't mean you can crash and get a refund for a pavement-shredded shell, but as a member-owned co-op REI will do their best to uphold your interests.

The Elite has been in production for several years. An attempted product "improvement", neoprene cuffs, was panned universally for water-sogging, and the original velcro cuff was put back on. Some people--not many-- complained about split seams and difficulty getting response from SP. With REI, you get immediate help on any product defects. This being said, SP appears to have the bugs worked out.

I went out last week at 30 F, it was raining, then as the temp dropped, the rain turned to sleet, and then to snow. It was 25 when I got back. I had a polypro baselayer and a wool jersey. And Craft bibtights, Columbia Omnitech (another Gore ePTFE membrane product) rain pants, GTX gloves, Winstopper bala). 

I had the pitzips open, and the front zip partiallhy open top and bottom for the whole ride. After 2 1/2 hours, I was coated in hoarfrost, snowflakes and ice "pebbles".

I was mildly damp (not dry-dry, but nowhere near wet-and-clammy) and toasty warm inside. I would have stayed out longer, but I was starting to get rear-tire slippage climbing some wet wood-board MUP bridges that were freezing up, and didn't want to push my luck. Also my RD was refusing to shift to the smaller cogs, then the FD locked up, due to road slush that flew up and froze solid, and I didn't have any de-icer fluid.

For $200ish, the 2.0 is an extremely versatile shell. You don't have to save it for rainy days, it's a superb cool/cold-dry-air windbreaker. 

It is generously cut to allow as much layering as you need. You can wear it in summer thunderstorms and winter blizzards. It can be packed into a jersey pocket. It has a huge rear waterproof pocket, and a waterproof MP3 pocket with internal cord port. 

What the 2.0 isn't: 1) It is not a body-hugging aerodynamic racing/high-speed training jacket. 2) Its long tail doesn't make it a stylin town jacket. Although, you could use it for both. It may be the best commuter/utility all-around riding shell on the market.


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## zriggle (Apr 16, 2008)

Eclectus said:


> What the 2.0 isn't: 1) It is not a body-hugging aerodynamic racing/high-speed training jacket. 2) Its long tail doesn't make it a stylin town jacket. Although, you could use it for both. It may be the best commuter/utility all-around riding shell on the market.



Chiming in— the 2.0 is badass. I own it, and the eVent pants. I’m planning on doing most of the winter in the eVent with a thick wool base layer and maybe a fleece midlayer. I live in Michigan.


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## Eclectus (Dec 27, 2009)

The jury is out on durability. That's why I didn't pull the trigger earlier, but when REI decided to offer it, it became no-risk.

I just went out today at 39 F, with a polypro baselayer jersey, half unzipped the 2.0 from the bottom. It was a short relaxed ride, 15 mi. Nice. I could have easily gone longer but the wife and son had mid-afternoon tickets for us all to see Sherlock Holmes (worth seeing, BTW.)

I have Assos, GBW, PI and Bellwether shells/soft-shell cycling jackets, plus a range of alpine-sports ones, Arc'Teryx, Marmot, Mtn Hardwear, Swix, REI. Also a really nice Castelli Transparante stretchy Windstopper long sleeve jersey. 

I've done multilayer fleece sans hardshell in the 20s and 30s, and for single-digits and below-zero F, down vest. down jacket, and GTX Pro shell over multiple fleece/wool layers. Down may be best carried in a pack, and donned for flat-fixing or waiting for a ride home after an unfixable breakdown, or the latter stages of really long rides. Maybe over a waterproof hardshell in the last circumstance. Otherwise down can get soaked.

Most of my jackets have ventable velcro cuffs. Some of them have pitzips or removable sleeves, which partially unzipped give some underarm ventilation. A couple have bottom-up front zipping. A couple have back vents. My only shell with every one of these features is the 2.0. 

The 2.o is a widely-varying-conditions-range winner. If temps are warmer, wear a short sleeve jersey, or even nothing underneath. If it gets really cold, layer up. 

You can start out warm at the start zipped up, then unzip as you generate body heat to let the sweat out. 

That's a really nice feature, because some people who try the "start out chilly, then warm up" routine get cold hands and/or feet, which is the body's way of protecting core temp, and for some of us, this can sometimes be aggravating to experience and to recover from. 

It's a personal preference, but I'd rather start out feeling warm, having good circulation to my extremities from the get-go, and then open up venting as I ride to maintain thermo-homeostasis. The 2.0 fills the bill for this.


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## tarwheel2 (Jul 7, 2005)

I got by without a winter cycling jacket for years by layering base gear, long-sleeve jerseys and a vest. However, I bought a winter jacket a couple of years ago, and now I am sold on them. The key is to find one that fits well and is breathable. Nothing worse than a jacket that traps sweat, which will just make you colder in the long run.

The Craft Thermal Windstopper jacket is excellent in that regard. Another excellent jacket is the Pearl Izumi Gavia, which they have renamed in typical PI fashion, so I don't know what it's called now. The problem with PI is their sizing is very inconsistent. Some of their gear fits me perfect in Large, others are way too small. 

I also have a Gore Phantom, but I have been disappointed with it. Although warm, it is not very breathable, which surprised me because I thought Gore was supposed to be the experts in that regard. I finally have found out how to make it usable, however, by unzipping the sleeps part way (so they function as pit zips) and opening it up some at the collar.


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## Eclectus (Dec 27, 2009)

If you have a jacket you like, but want to improve its venting versatility, you can probably find a seamstress who can sew in a dual-action front zip pretty cheaply. It's a great feature, I don't know why it isn't used more. 

Craft of Sweden started out with Nordic skiing apparel. They do cold-weather stuff really well. I have their Storm tights, $85 on closeout last June from Brand's (with an uber-comfy EIT pad, this was a steal. Should have gotten two!) I'd like to try their coldest-performance Elites at some point, if they go on end-of-season clearance.


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## JP (Feb 8, 2005)

Pretty much all you need to know is Showers Pass 2.0 plus wool layers underneath. That's as comfortable as it gets.


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## Jesse D Smith (Jun 11, 2005)

*+1*



Kolossal said:


> With baselayers, this is my best winter jacket: http://www.swrvestore.com/servlet/Detail?no=104 Actually I have the original, not the ES model. Sizes run a little large, I'm 6' and have a small.
> 
> But again, it will depend on your intensity, how you cope with cold, etc. I don't think there's any recipe to be confortable in cold weather. Still, this jacket is nice.


This looks like a winner. It's got the important features, windproof, venting zippers, the bottom is cut high in front and low in back the way you want it while in a riding position, the best quality zippers, it's not obscenely expensive, and if it matters to you it's made in USA.


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## Fignon's Barber (Mar 2, 2004)

[ 

I also have a Gore Phantom, but I have been disappointed with it. Although warm, it is not very breathable, which surprised me because I thought Gore was supposed to be the experts in that regard. I finally have found out how to make it usable, however, by unzipping the sleeps part way (so they function as pit zips) and opening it up some at the collar.[/QUOTE]

How have you found the Gore sizing? I've been looking at a couple of their thermo jerseys and jackets, but have read conflicting reports on sizing. It seems like the least expensive sites to order from are in the UK, and I don't want to ship back and forth across the atlantic. I'm 5'11'', 40 chest, 32 waist. thanks


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## mjdwyer23 (Mar 18, 2009)

GBW stuff runs a size small for top in the US. I wear a M in normal clothes but a L in GBW.


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## thegock (May 16, 2006)

*Fugu*

Great posts above, Eclectus-good info.

I have had the Fugujack for a few years and it is one of the pieces of cycling gear that I like the best.   

It goes down to 30 degrees with just a heavy (Under Armour cold gear) base layer underneath. The design engineering is superb. Quality is excellent. Fit in the riding position is perfect. I got it 78% off retail which made it more attainable, even a must-buy. At full boat, I would have a tough time convincing s.o. that it was a necessity.


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