# 2007 Lemond frames with heavy forks....why?



## skygodmatt (May 24, 2005)

I think the line-up for Lemond 2007 frames are great. They are all 850-950 grams. 

However, on the *Versailles* the fork weighs a whopping *610 grams*! The* Buenos Aires* fork is* 610 grams*! On the *Zurich*, the fork is* 580 grams*-- no means light weight. They are painted nice to match the frame, so changing it destroys the aesthetics. 

You're paying big money for a great light frame but then it comes with a lead fork? I don't get it. Just about every other light carbon frame out today comes with forks that are 300-400 grams.

Come on Bontrager, give Lemond the xxx lite fork to match their frames. You're so close, don't drop the ball now.


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## cerveloguy (Jul 26, 2005)

The steel/carbon spine bikes also came with heavy steel steerer Bontrager forks. I immediately replaced mine with a 1/2 lb lighter Reynolds Ouzo Pro.


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## skygodmatt (May 24, 2005)

*yes...but....*



cerveloguy said:


> The steel/carbon spine bikes also came with heavy steel steerer Bontrager forks. I immediately replaced mine with a 1/2 lb lighter Reynolds Ouzo Pro.



...you are spending $3000 for a nice bike with a matching fork. It seems dumb to have to go out a spend another $300 to replace a perfectly new one. Why not just pay Lemond a little extra and do it right from the factory?
850 gram frame with a 600 gram fork? 

On a side note---the Reynolds Ouzo Pro fork is a 12 year old product and they are still half a pound lighter than the Bontrager.


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## cerveloguy (Jul 26, 2005)

Actually I bought my steel/carbon B.A. as a frame/fork on ebay. It was about 1/3 of list so upgrading the fork wasn't so painful. I also sold the Bontrager boat anchor on ebay.


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## skygodmatt (May 24, 2005)

*Must be a reason...*



cerveloguy said:


> Actually I bought my steel/carbon B.A. as a frame/fork on ebay. It was about 1/3 of list so upgrading the fork wasn't so painful. I also sold the Bontrager boat anchor on ebay.



....why their fork is so heavy. To be about 1/2 pound heavier than everyone else's ballpark weight, they must be going for ride quality or feel ?? The only thing I know is the Race Lite fork is a long climb away from a Race " light" one. It's hard to make up for an 8 ounce weight penality in just one bike part. I am NOT posting this to bash it. I just want to know why they make it that way in such a competitive industry. 
Any thoughts?


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## WhiskeyNovember (May 31, 2003)

skygodmatt said:


> I just want to know why they make it that way in such a competitive industry.


Do any other fork companies offer a five-year warranty (or better) with no user weight limit whatsoever? There might be one or two out there, but I have yet to encounter any...


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## skygodmatt (May 24, 2005)

*That's good news that...*



WhiskeyNovember said:


> Do any other fork companies offer a five-year warranty (or better) with no user weight limit whatsoever? There might be one or two out there, but I have yet to encounter any...



...a 5 year warranty is good as is no weight limit. 

There are many other manufacturers that offer even better however. 

An example is Specialized. On their Tarmac, the frame/fork has a LIFETIME warranty for the original owner and the fork is 295 grams. How can anyone beat that?

another one: 

Easton EC90 SL ( 350grams ) does not have a weight limit and offers the same 5 year warranty as Bontrager forks. There are more manufacturers too. 


So what is the Bontrager advantage of having a 600gram fork again?? The advantage of a heavy aluminum crown and steerer that is bonded to carbon blades?? I can't find one other than over-torqueing bolts if the mechanic is an idiot. I'd sure like to find advantages as I think the new Lemond frames are really rockin'.


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## skygodmatt (May 24, 2005)

*Giant...Cannondale...also lifetime fork warranty*

...Lifetime fork Warranty seems to be the norm for the original owner when you purchase a bike or frameset. 

Only a few companies have a few years warranty.


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## skygodmatt (May 24, 2005)

*Lemond changed waranty from 2006 to 2007*

It appears that Lemond changed their warranty on their forks from a lifetime warranty in 2006 to a 5 year in 2007. See below:

From 2006:

LeMond Bicycles provides each original retail purchaser of the bicycle a* lifetime warranty *against defects in materials and workmanship in the *bicycle frame and rigid fork *when purchased from an authorized LeMond dealer. LeMond Bicycles likewise warrants all original parts on the bicycle for a period of one year from the date of purchase. Paint and decals are warranted for one year.

In 2007 : 

For the lifetime of the original owner:
The bicycle frame, *except the fork *
For five years:
Rigid forks 
All Bontrager components and accessories, except consumables such as tires and inner tubes. 


_So, basically if Lemond makes it, you've covered for life. But, if Bontrager makes it, you only get 1 to 5 years. _Bummer.


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## WhiskeyNovember (May 31, 2003)

skygodmatt said:


> There are many other manufacturers that offer even better however.
> 
> An example is Specialized. On their Tarmac, the frame/fork has a LIFETIME warranty for the original owner and the fork is 295 grams. How can anyone beat that?


That contradicts what I'm seeing from Specialized:










Additionally (as previously mentioned), Specialized places a 250 lb (ie: 240 lb, etc) rider weight limit on their carbon components, and recommends that they be replaced every THREE years.

How can anyone beat that? The answer is: easily.




skygodmatt said:


> Easton EC90 SL ( 350grams ) does not have a weight limit and offers the same 5 year warranty as Bontrager forks. There are more manufacturers too.


Interesting. What other manufacturers?




skygodmatt said:


> So what is the Bontrager advantage of having a 600gram fork again??


The advantage is that the fork has a five-year warranty, no user weight limit, no 3-year lifespan, and an affordable price.


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## skygodmatt (May 24, 2005)

*Wow...interesting*

The shops that are AUTHORIZED Specialized dealers are telling me that the Frame/Fork has a lifetime warranty.

According to the label above, how can a rider make a claim in one year on a lifetime warranty product? It may not develop a problem untill after a few years of use.

Here is text from Specialized:

Warranty 

Question 
What is the warranty on my new Specialized bike? 

Answer 
Thanks for question! The frame has a limited lifetime warranty on the frame (manufacturers defect) and one year for the components-to the original owner. 

Tailwinds,

Specialized 

I could not find any Warranty information on the fork. They just addressed the frame and componets. So, now I am confused. What does Specialized have to say?

It still stands that Cannondale have a lifetime warranty on their fork. 

:idea:


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## WhiskeyNovember (May 31, 2003)

skygodmatt said:


> I could not find any Warranty information on the fork. They just addressed the frame and componets. So, now I am confused. What does Specialized have to say?


One year.


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## skygodmatt (May 24, 2005)

*Good point Whiskey....*

...that you pointed out the 1 year thing with Specialized. That was a good reason that I was looking for as to why the Bontrager fork was so much heavier.

The 3 dealers I spoke to better get that straight about Specialized. 

:thumbsup:


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## WhiskeyNovember (May 31, 2003)

skygodmatt said:


> ...that you pointed out the 1 year thing with Specialized. That was a good reason that I was looking for as to why the Bontrager fork was so much heavier.
> 
> The 3 dealers I spoke to better get that straight about Specialized.


Now, whether the Bontrager's benefits are worth the extra weight can be argued endlessly, but I think Specialized's warranty (and ESPECIALLY their user weight limit) speak volumes about their confidence (or lack thereof) in their products.


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## skygodmatt (May 24, 2005)

*I believe that....*

..If manufacturers put weight limts on their stuff, I don't want anything to do with it even though I am under 180 pounds.


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## WhiskeyNovember (May 31, 2003)

skygodmatt said:


> ..If manufacturers put weight limts on their stuff, I don't want anything to do with it even though I am under 180 pounds.


Speak it, brother. :thumbsup:


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## skygodmatt (May 24, 2005)

*I still think....*

...that's it is lame to put a 600g fork on a 950g frame. I know Bontrager has durability but so do many other forks which are way lighter. Look at just about any bike between $2500-$3000. Any one. Their forks are over 100 grams lighter if not way more and carry the same or better warranty as Bontrager. It's only the sub 300g forks that don't. With an 07 LEMOND ZURICH, they DOWNGRADED the FORK AND WHEELS from last year's 06 ZURICH. You don't get the Race X-Lite ( 440g) . You get the Race Lite ( 580g ).
$2800 for a bike with that fork and only Bontrager Race ( no lite ) wheels and Ultegra? Other bike companies and going to give you more for $500 less. 

Someone made an error with the whole Bontrager Fork build with the TREK AND LEMOND.
I'm going to go test ride a Lemond 07 tomorrow. If I like it, I'll get a Reynolds Ouzo Pro with a 45mm rake and 272mm blade length. It's 390g. It will save 1/2 pound! 

I hope the fork info on Lemond's site is wrong and they give you the Race X-Lite like they did last year. 


:idea:


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## hclignett (Dec 18, 2006)

Yes the fork is pretty heavy. But when you look at the design of the bike the front end is super beefy and it tappers off to the back of the bike being really thin. I don't know it will proably be my first upgrade. But then the bike weights in at 16.2 lbs as it is and thats with everything on it including pedals one cage and computer stuff. I've had the bike up to 47 mph and it felt so stable I want to go faster to see how it feels.

Henri


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## skygodmatt (May 24, 2005)

*Thanks Henri*

I appreciate the ride report contrasting the differences between the 06 Spine frames and the new 07 frames that you sent me. You should post a review of the differences in the Review section. 

It sounds like Lemod nailed it-- Stiffness, Comfort and Light are a hard trio to put together. 

Matt P.


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## Tower (Mar 17, 2003)

LeMond is no different than any other company out there. Their top of the line models have the best components, and their lower end bikes have the heavier parts. If you want the X Lite fork, get the Tête De Course. All of the bikes in Triomphe Series seem to have the same frame (though different paint schemes); it's the components that make up the rest of the price.

One thing is for sure, their paint schemes are very disappointing.


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## WhiskeyNovember (May 31, 2003)

Tower said:


> All of the bikes in Triomphe Series seem to have the same frame (though different paint schemes); it's the components that make up the rest of the price.


Almost. The Tete de Course uses (true) high-modulus carbon, making it lighter than the rest, and the Versailles uses less-expensive (heavier) carbon fabric to keep the cost down.


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## Tower (Mar 17, 2003)

WhiskeyNovember said:


> Almost. The Tete de Course uses (true) high-modulus carbon, making it lighter than the rest, and the Versailles uses less-expensive (heavier) carbon fabric to keep the cost down.


Cool, thanks for clearing that up. Do you happen to know how these frames stack up weight wise against the Trek Madones?


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## WhiskeyNovember (May 31, 2003)

Tower said:


> Do you happen to know how these frames stack up weight wise against the Trek Madones?


The Tete de Course is an 850 gram frame.

The BA, Zurich, and Victoire are 950 gram frames.

The Versailles is a 1050 gram frame.


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## cerveloguy (Jul 26, 2005)

100-200 gms means SFA in terms of performance.

There's a lot cheaper ways to save 100-200 gms than spending extra $$$ for the frame.


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## WhiskeyNovember (May 31, 2003)

cerveloguy said:


> There's a lot cheaper ways to save 100-200 gms than spending extra $$$ for the frame.


When you spend extra for a higher-end model, the frame isn't the only upgrade you're paying for...


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## ilmaestro (May 3, 2008)

This is an old thread, but I thought I'd bump it.

Does anyone know if the 2008 Lemonds still have "heavy" forks?


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## rkb (Apr 4, 2007)

Hold on I'll give it a weigh............


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## rkb (Apr 4, 2007)

When I purchased my 08 Tete frameset it came with a Bontrager X Lite fork. I had the shop build up the bike and they incorrectly cut the steer tube. As a result the shop replaced the fork with a XXX Lite. I remember weighing both forks and the difference in weight was only a few grams. Since it has been a while and I can't remember what the weight was I just weighed the XXX Lite again. I would call this heavy, it weighs 419 grams, making XXX Lite a misnomer (jumbo shrimp). Granted it has an aluminum steer tube, and is very strong and stiff. 

I like the way the bike handles w/the XXX. It would be interesting to replace the Bonty with a ultra light fork and see if the lighter font end changes the handling.

Reynolds Ouzo...................380grams
Reynolds UL.......................315grams

Richey WCS.......................298grams

Easton EC90 SLX................295grams
Easton EC90 SL..................340grams

Bontrager XXX Lite................419grams


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## ilmaestro (May 3, 2008)

rkb said:


> When I purchased my 08 Tete frameset it came with a Bontrager X Lite fork. I had the shop build up the bike and they incorrectly cut the steer tube. As a result the shop replaced the fork with a XXX Lite. I remember weighing both forks and the difference in weight was only a few grams. Since it has been a while and I can't remember what the weight was I just weighed the XXX Lite again. I would call this heavy, it weighs 419 grams, making XXX Lite a misnomer (jumbo shrimp). Granted it has an aluminum steer tube, and is very strong and stiff.
> 
> I like the way the bike handles w/the XXX. It would be interesting to replace the Bonty with a ultra light fork and see if the lighter font end changes the handling.
> 
> ...


Interesting. I guess it's safe to assume then that the forks on most lemonds are indeed still "heavy", particularly on the lesser models.

Thanks for the info.


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## blbike (May 12, 2006)

I just got the 2008 Victoire, a $5300 (list) bicycle. I had assume it would come with a top of the line fork to match the 850g frame. It came with the Bontrager Race X Lite fork not the XXX, I was a bit disappointed. While its a nice riding 450g fork, I thought even that was a bit of a mismatch. I already have a LOOK HSC5 SL fork, and had it painted to match, 295g uncut continues to ride beautiful at a considerable weight savings.


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## trener1 (Jan 22, 2004)

Nice timing on the fork upgrade question.
I am about to get a new 07 Zurich, I plan on upgrading the fork before I ever ride it.
I have it narrowed down to either the Reynolds Ouzo Pro, or the Alpha Q GS10.
Here is where I am not sure what direction to go.
The Ouzo Pro comes in a 45 mm rake, but is a curved blade, while the Bontrager is a straight blade.

The Alpha Q is a straight blade however is only available in 44 mm rake, any idea which would "match" the ride better?


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## rkb (Apr 4, 2007)

trener1 said:


> Nice timing on the fork upgrade question.
> I am about to get a new 07 Zurich, I plan on upgrading the fork before I ever ride it.
> I have it narrowed down to either the Reynolds Ouzo Pro, or the Alpha Q GS10.
> Here is where I am not sure what direction to go.
> ...


FWIW- The fork rake on the Zurich is a 45mm, not sure if the 1mm would make a difference. I may also move from my heavy Bonty XXX Lite to a lighter fork. From a pure aesthetics's point of view I like a straight blade fork.


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## rkb (Apr 4, 2007)

trener1 said:


> Nice timing on the fork upgrade question.
> I am about to get a new 07 Zurich, I plan on upgrading the fork before I ever ride it.
> I have it narrowed down to either the Reynolds Ouzo Pro, or the Alpha Q GS10.
> Here is where I am not sure what direction to go.
> ...


Just a thought- The Alpha Q will drop only about 60 grams and the Reynolds only about 40 grams. If you are looking to shed weight there are other areas on the Zurich that might give more bang for your buck- such as the wheels.


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## trener1 (Jan 22, 2004)

The Zurich comes with the race lite fork, which weighs about 540 grams, so depending on which of those two I go with the I am looking at about shaving 200 grams.

And yes the wheels will be going as well, don't worry about that .


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## rkb (Apr 4, 2007)

trener1 said:


> The Zurich comes with the race lite fork, which weighs about 540 grams, so depending on which of those two I go with the I am looking at about shaving 200 grams.
> 
> And yes the wheels will be going as well, don't worry about that .


Sorry- my bad, I was thinking it had the Race "X" Lite.


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## ilmaestro (May 3, 2008)

I just wanted to point out, this whole thread shouldn't be just about Lemond frames having heavy forks, but Trek as well, being that they use the same forks... I think the criticism is valid though.


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## vanjr (Sep 15, 2005)

Isn't the victoire an 950 g bike and the tete the only 850 g frame? That said even though i'd go ritchey wcs, i can't see gaining anything significant by switching the fork.

What is the size and weight of your victoire? I have a 53 cm on order-can't wait!


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## rkb (Apr 4, 2007)

vanjr said:


> Isn't the victoire an 950 g bike and the tete the only 850 g frame? That said even though i'd go ritchey wcs, i can't see gaining anything significant by switching the fork.
> 
> What is the size and weight of your victoire? I have a 53 cm on order-can't wait!


Frames on the 08 models are the same- both 850 grams in a size 55cm. The only difference is the headset.


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## deburn (May 1, 2008)

Since this thread has been resurrected, does anyone know if the lifetime warranty would apply to an 05 Buenos Aires that was bought new from an LBS in 08? Last week as a matter of fact!



skygodmatt said:


> It appears that Lemond changed their warranty on their forks from a lifetime warranty in 2006 to a 5 year in 2007. See below:
> 
> From 2006:
> 
> ...


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## freeb (Aug 12, 2009)

I always get a kick out of the weight issue when for 95% of most riders merely need to look in the mirror to see where weight is best shaved, free of charge, and you get an increase in V02 Max as a bonus. I say complain about bike weight once you're at 3% body fat.


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## cyclust (Sep 8, 2004)

One thing is for sure, their paint schemes are very disappointing.[/QUOTE]

While everybody has their opinion, I thought the min max series of frames had some of the classiest paint schemes around. The 2 colors with the chevron design looked great, but the "Lemond" graphics were what really set it apart. No huge logos in 25 different places, no pro team decals, just a simple, classic script that was very tastefully done. I actually have both a Victorie and a B/A, but I think the B/A, with the red/white scheme, was by far the best looking in the whole lineup. I was willing to settle with having the boat anchor of a fork for the great looking colors.


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## terbennett (Apr 1, 2006)

skygodmatt said:


> ....why their fork is so heavy. To be about 1/2 pound heavier than everyone else's ballpark weight, they must be going for ride quality or feel ?? The only thing I know is the Race Lite fork is a long climb away from a Race " light" one. It's hard to make up for an 8 ounce weight penality in just one bike part. I am NOT posting this to bash it. I just want to know why they make it that way in such a competitive industry.
> Any thoughts?


Funny that you said that. A riding buddy of mine was building up a 2004 Trek 5200 frameset a few years back. He was trying to lighten the bike and ended up buying a Forte full carbon fork from Performance. Blasphemy? Maybe, but the fork was half a pound lighter than the OEM Trek 5200 fork that the frame came with bike. Heck, he said it was actually around the weight of the fork he has on his 5900 Superlight. Anyway, why Trek does that baffles me too, but it is a plus for Clydesdales due to it's strength. Even the 2009 Madone 5.2 is sporting a rather heavy aluminum steerer carbon fork and it retails around $4,000. My take is that it will appeal to a broader group of riders. Not every rider that will buy a higher end bike weigh under 200 lbs. Heck even I had to spend extra loot to get stronger (and heavier carbon aluminum fork and aluminum seatpost) added to my Felt F1 Sprint to handle the added power I dish out at 215 lbs.


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