# So what's all this about FMB tires??!!



## wunlap togo (Oct 1, 2004)

I saw the website, those sure look a lot like Dugast! The sprint file-tread looks really great with full sized side knobs. Zank, have you seen these in person? Anyone? I can only imagine that the guy that builds the Dugast tires must be PISSED about this. The price seems like it's about like Dugast, another option is good news since Dugasts are sometimes very scarce.


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## allons-y (Nov 15, 2006)

wunlap togo said:


> I saw the website, those sure look a lot like Dugast! The sprint file-tread looks really great with full sized side knobs. Zank, have you seen these in person? Anyone? I can only imagine that the guy that builds the Dugast tires must be PISSED about this. The price seems like it's about like Dugast, another option is good news since Dugasts are sometimes very scarce.


iirc.....fm-b, is some variation of the initials of a former dugast employee who left to start his own company. i think the employee was a pre-whoever owns dugast now employee. hence, the fact they look extremely similar is not that suprising.....

thats what i think i know, i have no idea in reality though.


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## kajukembo (Jan 20, 2003)

*some other interweb discussion on the topic*

http://weightweenies.starbike.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=27563&highlight=fmb


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## wunlap togo (Oct 1, 2004)

Awesome! I look forward to trying these out, particularly the semi slick. I wish the pictures were better of the treads on their website.


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## allons-y (Nov 15, 2006)

yea....now its just a matter of which ones to get.....so my story was somewhat accurate


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## Kram (Jan 28, 2004)

I'm too lazy to check, but do they only sell tubies or clinchers as well?


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## Phat&SlowVelo (Nov 27, 2004)

*So K?*



kajukembo said:


> http://weightweenies.starbike.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=27563&highlight=fmb


Are you gonna sport a pair on your Sachs? or the Zank? Maybe give us some real world impressions?


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## allons-y (Nov 15, 2006)

Kram59 said:


> I'm too lazy to check, but do they only sell tubies or clinchers as well?


i dont know, but i would guess only tubies.....i mean, ive never seen/heard of a dugast clincher (but then again i am not at all in the know)


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## danwerle (Oct 11, 2005)

I've been in contact with Francois a lot over the past couple of weeks. 

I've ordered the tires. He's shipping them early next week. Once I get them, I'll try and get some photos posted. I've ordered a pair of the SSC (32) and the SSC Sprint (34). 

I've got to say, the guy has been wonderful to work with. He's very prompt, very honest. He speaks English, but does better with French; hence, you might do well to use the Google language tool for translation help, in case you contact him and don't read French. 

He only builds tubulars. He's got a track model, a road model, two cyclo-cross models, and is building some tubular MTB tires soon. 

The one caveat to working with him is that he does not have a U.S. distributor; hence, sending him money is a little more labor-intensive (and expensive, depending on what your bank fees are) than what many are used to (i.e. calling someone and offering up a credit card number, using PayPal, etc.). I've got to be honest, although I'm not nuts about paying my bank a silly transaction fee, I'm pretty happy working directly with him. 

Again, they should be here in a couple of weeks. Once they do, I'll throw them on the scale, take some photos, update this thread. Also, Zank has been working with him and may have a few extra tires available - he ordered a bolus of them, anticipating others on this side of The Pond would want to use them. 

For the record, prior to being introduced to the FMBs, I had been in contact with Richard and the Dugast folks and had great experiences with them. Wunlap, it'd be great to have you try out a pair or two of the FMBs, then offer up a comparison between the FMBs and the Dugasts, for those of us who are really gung-ho about this stuff. 

Also, here's a link to another thread I started that is similar to this one in nature:

http://forums.roadbikereview.com/showthread.php?t=91200


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## kajukembo (Jan 20, 2003)

Phat&SlowVelo said:


> Are you gonna sport a pair on your Sachs? or the Zank? Maybe give us some real world impressions?


I've got my order in. I'm in a state of hopeful anticipation, but at the same time, we shall see if these are are the real deal. My issue with the Dugasts that I've inspected is the quality of construction has been suspect. Frankly, it's kept me from buying them. Maybe it's not a fair comparison, but when I first started riding 25 years ago, we only raced tubulars. Cotton and silk were readily available and the quality was top notch. The Dutch made Dugasts I've held in my hand didn't have a particularly straight tread nor were they completely round. They in no way compare to the road and track tires made by the old French guy a few years ago. I think a little competition in this space is much needed. If Dugast sees folks gravitating to a competing tire, the quality may re surface.

Separately, the new Griffo tread pattern is my very favorite. I can use that tread pattern in all but the most dry conditons. The problem is. The last two sets I purchased the tread peeled right off the casing. 

Anyway, I'm hoping this French guy is my saviour.


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## wunlap togo (Oct 1, 2004)

Well, of course I'd love to give them a try but I've got a pretty good stock of lightly used dugasts for this coming season. Depending on their availability, I'll probably try them out. I'd especially like to get some of those semi slicks, that's a type of tire that's not been addressed by Dugast and the Challenge ones are too small and the tread design sucks.


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## zank (Aug 4, 2005)

Guys, sorry for being a little late on this. I have been in PA for work the past few days.

I have not put my order in yet as I am still waiting for a couple of people to firm up what they want. After I posted that I was going to order some, a few people PM'd me about getting in on it. Again, since I can not become a distributor, I am paying the price on the website. I am simply passing them on at that cost plus shipping, duties, and bank fees. Once I figure out what the shipping and fees are, I will divide it up per tire and tack it onto the price of each tire along with the shipping charge from me to you. I am doing this more as a convenience to the cross gang who want some tires but don't really want the hassle of ordering them.

If anyone else wants in, please PM me. Let's set the deadline as April 27. I will require payment up front since it will be a big bill.

Josh, I have not seen them in person. It will be a leap of faith I guess. But Francois's reputation is very high with those who I have talked to who have ridden them. I will surely post pictures as soon as I get them and do a ride report as soon as I get some miles on them.


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## atpjunkie (Mar 23, 2002)

*is that*

69 Euros a tire for the cheap ones?

thx


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## zank (Aug 4, 2005)

yes, plus shipping, bank fees, and potentially customs duties. :mad2:


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## myette10 (Jul 20, 2003)

atpjunkie said:


> 69 Euros a tire for the cheap ones?
> 
> thx


I'd love to try them... but $200+ in tires can't make that much difference, can they? That's 6 races and the gas to get there and back. That's money well spent on a bike, but on tires? Maybe someone will let me borrow a set. If I win $200 because of the extra speed they give me, I'll buy some. 

Until then, I'll live vicariously.


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## atpjunkie (Mar 23, 2002)

*I'm not that fast nor rich*



myette10 said:


> I'd love to try them... but $200+ in tires can't make that much difference, can they? That's 6 races and the gas to get there and back. That's money well spent on a bike, but on tires? Maybe someone will let me borrow a set. If I win $200 because of the extra speed they give me, I'll buy some.
> 
> Until then, I'll live vicariously.


I tend to get Grifos for around 60 a pair. good enough fer my slow self
plus our terrain would destroy those tires


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## danwerle (Oct 11, 2005)

Zank, I'm sorry for speaking too soon. The ordering process was a little challenging, but I think my money transfer finally went through. 

Myette10 & atpjunkie, I understand where you're coming from. I'm really excited about buying these tires and running them this year; however, next year may be a different story. My wife has given me the green light to spend a little extra on a bike and Francois is someone I'd really like to support. At the end of the race day, at the level most of us are at, I can't say for certain that more expensive tires are going to markedly increase how fast I race, or, more importantly, how much fun I have racing.


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## atpjunkie (Mar 23, 2002)

*oh don't get me wrong*

I'd do it if I had that kinda mad money. heck I've been saving some green michelin muds to do a Dugast Tubie conversion but I doubt it will ever happen. If I get back to fighting form and find myself ever back in the podium hunt, then I'd break down. But to be pack fodder on real expensive gear would just be too fred-like for my personal tastes. But again, if I ever return to form I'll think again


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## myette10 (Jul 20, 2003)

danwerle said:


> Myette10 & atpjunkie, I understand where you're coming from.


I thought about this later, and I spend $50 on each MM2 so it ain't like tires are free over here. So the issues is the extra $100, not and extra $200. I've also got a full compliment of clincher wheels, no tubbies, and three pairs of MM2s, one pair still in the wrapper. That being where I am with the whole thing, even the extra $100 is unnecessary.


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## allons-y (Nov 15, 2006)

i hear you guys

for me its 60 bucks a tire (even with a team discount) vs. ~ 100. so its 80 bucks......then again, i dont "need" them.....but they would be sweet. and i may convince my parents to cover the difference for my bday.....maybe. i already have the wheels, its just the tires.....


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## wunlap togo (Oct 1, 2004)

Well, as I'm sure you've heard, tubulars are a big advantage and worth the extra "hassle" and coin for cross. The Challenge tires are really good and if you're on a budget those are probably the best bet. But the Dugast (and presumably FMB) tire's really are a step above and they DO make you faster. Do you need them as a mid-packer in a beginner level race? No, probably not. But if you're spending money on your race bike and you have aspirations of contesting some races and progressing, there's no better place to splurge than on tires. For cross, tires are the most important piece of componentry that you have after you've got a bike that fits.


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## synnevs (Jan 9, 2006)

I agree with 1 lap...once you have tried them there is no turning back. There is a good reason ALLLL the guys in Europe and the top guys in the states use them - they are the best. Period. And just about every one of these guys is paying for them. Challenge is a good second choice. Make the investment and you will not be sorry. You will, as 1 lap says, be a bit faster.


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## surfamtn (Aug 28, 2006)

For cross said:


> Couldn't agree more, nuts to DA and Carbon bits that just break! Gimme my ultegra 9 speed and regular parts to save coin to divert to my tubular quiver.


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## danwerle (Oct 11, 2005)

*FMB photos*

I just got a couple pairs of the FMB SSC 32s and SSC Sprint 34s. I'm "challenged", when it comes to uploading photos. I've struggled with this time and again. I'd love to post them. Any chance someone more competent in this department could e-mail me? I'll be happy to send the e-mailed photos along to you, then perhaps you could post them? 

Thanks. 
[email protected]


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## kajukembo (Jan 20, 2003)

danwerle said:


> I just got a couple pairs of the FMB SSC 32s and SSC Sprint 34s. I'm "challenged", when it comes to uploading photos. I've struggled with this time and again. I'd love to post them. Any chance someone more competent in this department could e-mail me? I'll be happy to send the e-mailed photos along to you, then perhaps you could post them?
> 
> Thanks.
> [email protected]



In the mean time, you've got em in your hands, how's the quality?


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## danwerle (Oct 11, 2005)

I haven't had Dugasts, Tufos, Clements, or Challenge tires before; hence, I don't have much to compare them to. They seem like they have great casings, and the tread patterns are ideal. Thumbs up to Francois. I think they are awesome. 

I've got three dogs. Tonight, I'll leave the tires out among the dog toys. The two youngest love tug-of-war games. That should help me better assess their durability. 

Pictures will be up soon.


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## euro-trash (May 1, 2004)

I had to compress the pics, they were big. Hopefully they'll load. Dan or myself can send you the full size pics if you want.


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## euro-trash (May 1, 2004)

Here are a few more. The file tread tire is quite interesting.


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## Ronsonic (Nov 11, 2004)

Interesting looking tires. Maybe there'll be more tires available this season, everybody runs out of the good stuff before the season's over.


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## buenavista (Jan 10, 2006)

Why are you running the tread backwards on the rear full knobbie?


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## danwerle (Oct 11, 2005)

It's on a clincher rim. I've just got the tires on those wheels to get them stretched.


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## dyg2001 (Sep 23, 2004)

The 34mm dot tread looks like it would be sweet as a rear for bumpy dry courses. I like a knobby front like the Rhino. For me the increased cornering traction trumps the loss in rolling resistance.


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## aljames (Jan 18, 2006)

*FMB vs Dugast*

I am in a position to shed some light on the FMB tires compared to Dugast having used Dugast for a while and now am using FMB.

THe FMB are superb quality - how Dugast used to be a while back? I have a pair of SSC 32 and a pair of SP sprint 32 (latex walls). Well constructed, round and very well finished indeed. Quite fat for a 32 too. My supplier feels like I do, that they will last better, particularly the SP latex version as this protects sidewall and basetape/sidewall interface alike.

Ride is awesome, particularly on the SP which is so comfortable and cushioning as a result of the latex. The grip from the sprint tread is surprisingly good, even in mud and greasy grass tracks. A great tyre for all but the muddier courses?

I though Dugast Rhinos were the ulitmate mud tyre but had some real quality issues with mine. Unfortunately they were coming apart after a season. Thus I have sent the treads off to Francois for putting onto an SP carcass. Should be even more ultimate than the Rhino?

They are a real rival to Dugast which do still retain that mythical air about them. Perhaps Dugast will up their game and retain their pole postion once more? Can only be good for us obsessives .....


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## cbass (Nov 14, 2001)

I've got some FMB's on the way. I'm looking forward to checking them out.
Francois is a pleasure to deal with.


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## dyg2001 (Sep 23, 2004)

aljames said:


> I am in a position to shed some light on the FMB tires compared to Dugast having used Dugast for a while and now am using FMB.
> 
> THe FMB are superb quality - how Dugast used to be a while back? I have a pair of SSC 32 and a pair of SP sprint 32 (latex walls). Well constructed, round and very well finished indeed. Quite fat for a 32 too. My supplier feels like I do, that they will last better, particularly the SP latex version as this protects sidewall and basetape/sidewall interface alike.
> 
> ...


What is the difference between "SP" and "Pro"? The latter is very expensive. Silk casing? 

Is the latex layer of the SP just a coating like you would get from brushing on some Jevelot Tire Life, or an extra layer of the casing, or what?

How would you rate the front tire cornering traction of the SSC tread vs. Dugast Rhino?

Thanks!


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## aljames (Jan 18, 2006)

I am not entirely sure exactly how the Pro is constructed but am told that it is akin to the pink walled Dugast from a few years ago - puncture resistant and silk based with the latex wall?

The SP latex however is a proper layer - not brushed on at all. The website now has a picture of it. It basically seals in the cotton wall and makes the overall construction much more weather proof, as well as stopping sidewall damage. I believe there is also a layer to help with puncture protection.

Though I look at weight weanie stuff I have no weights for them - they may be slightly heavier?

I have'nt used my SSC tread tubs much yet but talking to people who have, they suggest that it corners nearly as well as a rhino. The superiority of the rhino tread is due to the fact that the outside knobs are quite a bit further out/down toward the sidewall than on the SSC which in is turn better than a typhoon tread (?). I am no Bart or Sven so perhaps not really qualified to comment. All I know is they are well made, and well up to the job for keen 'amateurs' like me! Equally Francois is a pleasure to deal with.


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## aljames (Jan 18, 2006)

I am not entirely sure exactly how the Pro is constructed but am told that it is akin to the pink walled Dugast from a few years ago - puncture resistant and silk based with the latex wall?

The SP latex however is a proper layer - not brushed on at all. The website now has a picture of it. It basically seals in the cotton wall and makes the overall construction much more weather proof, as well as stopping sidewall damage. I believe there is also a layer to help with puncture protection.

Though I look at weight weanie stuff I have no weights for them - they may be slightly heavier?

I have'nt used my SSC tread tubs much yet but talking to people who have, they suggest that it corners nearly as well as a rhino. The superiority of the rhino tread is due to the fact that the outside knobs are quite a bit further out/down toward the sidewall than on the SSC which in is turn better than a typhoon tread (?). I am no Bart or Sven so perhaps not really qualified to comment. All I know is they are well made, and well up to the job for keen 'amateurs' like me! Equally Francois is a pleasure to deal with.


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## aljames (Jan 18, 2006)

I am not entirely sure exactly how the Pro is constructed but am told that it is akin to the pink walled Dugast from a few years ago - puncture resistant and silk based with the latex wall?

The SP latex however is a proper layer - not brushed on at all. The website now has a picture of it. It basically seals in the cotton wall and makes the overall construction much more weather proof, as well as stopping sidewall damage. I believe there is also a layer to help with puncture protection.

Though I look at weight weanie stuff I have no weights for them - they may be slightly heavier?

I have'nt used my SSC tread tubs much yet but talking to people who have, they suggest that it corners nearly as well as a rhino. The superiority of the rhino tread is due to the fact that the outside knobs are quite a bit further out/down toward the sidewall than on the SSC which in is turn better than a typhoon tread (?). I am no Bart or Sven so perhaps not really qualified to comment. All I know is they are well made, and well up to the job for keen 'amateurs' like me! Equally Francois is a pleasure to deal with. :thumbsup:


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## cbass (Nov 14, 2001)

I received my FMB's yesterday, a pair each of SSC's and SSC Sprint's.

They are stretching on rims right now.

The quality of the construction looks fantastic. These are tires made by a true artisan.

The SSC tread looks like a good proxy for my Rhino's and should be excellent for the mud.

The SSC Sprint tread looks really cool with a file-like pattern of little bumps down the middle and good-sized knobs on the sides. They look like they will be fast AND corner well on grass/dirt.

I'm looking forward to getting them mounted and out for some test rides.

As everyone else has mentioned Francois is a great guy and easy to work with, especially if you can communicate in French (if not, then use an online translator).


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## zank (Aug 4, 2005)

Hypothetical questions:

1. If these were available in the US from a fella willing to bring in a large number, would people in the US be more inclined to buy them since they would not have to do international business (wire tansfers, dealing with Customs issues, etc)?

2. And if said fella was to bring in a bunch of the more common treads and sizes (let's say SSC in 32 and 34 and SSC Sprint in 32 and 34), would people be willing to wait for special orders of the less common combos (say an SSC 28 or an SP SSC 34)?

I'm curious what you guys would think of this arrangement.


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## Unoveloce (Apr 13, 2005)

*I would think so.*

CyclocrossWorld has already shown that people will be willing to wait to get Dugasts. I think it could work, but you'd have to have a high level of customer service to make paying a higher price worth not having to deal with VAT and customs. I'd hate to think that I was on the list for a set of FMB's and come September not have them materialize and then be told there should be more in April. I'm not saying this would happen or that it already does, just that it would be a real deal breaker for me. That said, I'd pony up for a set form a company willing to bring them in.


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## spacemanrides (Aug 11, 2006)

zank said:


> Hypothetical questions:
> 
> 1. If these were available in the US from a fella willing to bring in a large number, would people in the US be more inclined to buy them since they would not have to do international business (wire tansfers, dealing with Customs issues, etc)?
> 
> ...


would the prices be comprable to buying them direct ( with Vat and duty etc ), if so I would say yes that people would be inclined to do it. If there is a big premium over buying from Francios then probably not as people are willing to avoid some hassle, but too much.
I would pay a bit of a primium to get them fast. 
I hope you do it!!!
How would you get the word out there? Use the forum and word of mouth?


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## jmeerse (Nov 12, 2004)

*Absolutely!*

I'd love to get a pair of the SSC Sprints from said fella, whenever/if they were to materialize. Those tires look like the shiznit (I just need to figure out what to sell to afford them...)





zank said:


> Hypothetical questions:
> 
> 1. If these were available in the US from a fella willing to bring in a large number, would people in the US be more inclined to buy them since they would not have to do international business (wire tansfers, dealing with Customs issues, etc)?
> 
> ...


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## VHR2518 (Jun 21, 2007)

*Willing to buy some FMB tyres*

Sounds like they are great tires and I would be willing get some from a US supplier.


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## thermos (Jun 19, 2007)

*Not a hypothetical answer.*

I would buy a pair or two (I've already ordered two pair anyway) to save a few bucks. Considering Citibank charged me 30 bucks for the bank transfer on 4 tires, if that got spread over 30 tires...viola!

Might I suggest you test the waters by doing a pre-paid order. Use paypal or the like.
Maybe guarantee a refund if tires dont' arrive by the promised date. That's also easy to do via paypal. (be sure to figure in the stupid paypal fees, which might swamp the savings...grrr) 
Set a date for orders which gives a reasonable turn around time. 

advertise here.....race.cx....a few other popular boards. 

As a business model, the above would sink you in a hurry. As a gesture to your cross brothren, it would raise you to "god" status.


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## danwerle (Oct 11, 2005)

*I agree with thermos*

Mike, 

The other benefit to this is that it will likely save Francois on the receiving end. I think he gets charged a fair bit by his bank when a money transfer occurs; hence, reducing the frequency of those transfers may save him. Plus, as we all know, shipping and labor (for time running back and forth from the post) can be costly, too. I'm with thermos, though, in the sense that I don't want you getting stuck with thirty very expensive tires and nothing to do with them. The pre-pay model might work really well in these circumstances. It would be great to see more of Francois' work over here on this side of the pond.


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## zank (Aug 4, 2005)

Gang, thanks for the feedback. I put up a post on my blog with some info for those who are interested. I also see it as being a win-win for Francois, as he will have fewer international shipments to deal with and he will have more tubulars being run over here.

I have always been fascinated with finding obscure cross-specific material. I hope this turns out to be a good thing for all.


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## zank (Aug 4, 2005)

spacemanrides said:


> would the prices be comprable to buying them direct ( with Vat and duty etc ), if so I would say yes that people would be inclined to do it. If there is a big premium over buying from Francios then probably not as people are willing to avoid some hassle, but too much.
> I would pay a bit of a primium to get them fast.
> I hope you do it!!!
> How would you get the word out there? Use the forum and word of mouth?


My goal would be to keep prices as close to direct as possible and provide excellent service. Aside from this thread, where I already feel like I am treading the line as far as promoting myself, I will not use the forum as a vehicle to advertise. I don't think that is the right thing to do. But I can't stop you guys from giving me a plug here and there if I serve you well, if you know what I mean.


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## Gripped (Nov 27, 2002)

zank said:


> Gang, thanks for the feedback. I put up a post on my blog with some info for those who are interested. I also see it as being a win-win for Francois, as he will have fewer international shipments to deal with and he will have more tubulars being run over here.
> 
> I have always been fascinated with finding obscure cross-specific material. I hope this turns out to be a good thing for all.


I don't want to take business away from Mike, but if you're on the left coast, I know a guy over here doing the same sort of thing with Francois. This guy's in Portland so if you're local and want FMBs, I can give you his name. PM me.


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