# Recommendation: '05 Carbon Bikes



## velo-blue

Hey all. 

I'm planning on getting a new bike within the next few months and was looking for help with recommendations. I know I need to do the test rides. And, I plan to. Problem is, the dealers in my area basically carry only Trek, Lemond, Klein and Giant. So the test rides will require a trip; I want to keep the list narrow enough to avoid undue travel, etc.

In no particular order, here are my criteria. 

I've ridden steel, aluminum and alumunim with carbon stays. I'd like to give full carbon a shot. I've got about $3,500 to spend - I'm planning on an Ultegra or Centaur build (maybe Chorus). Weight, while not super important, is pretty important to me. Finish quality is also pretty important. Lastly, I want to avoid going with a bike that everyone else owns. Clearly, ride quality is important. But, there are enough bikes out there that I should be able to get a good-riding yet unique bike.

All said, I've been looking at the following: Orbea Onix, Bianchi 928 Lugged, Marin Stelvio, Jamis Xenith, Cervelo R2.5. Any of these stand out as clear winners or losers? Anything else I've missed?

Thanks a ton in advance.



Peter


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## Lifelover

*Aegis*

http://www.aegisbicycles.com/

I don't own one buy I know 3 friends that do and they all love them.

USA made, Lifetime Warranty, blah, blah, blah.

Test ride maybe a problem.


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## Max-Q

velo-blue said:


> Hey all.
> 
> I'm planning on getting a new bike within the next few months and was looking for help with recommendations. I know I need to do the test rides. And, I plan to. Problem is, the dealers in my area basically carry only Trek, Lemond, Klein and Giant. So the test rides will require a trip; I want to keep the list narrow enough to avoid undue travel, etc.
> 
> In no particular order, here are my criteria.
> 
> I've ridden steel, aluminum and alumunim with carbon stays. I'd like to give full carbon a shot. I've got about $3,500 to spend - I'm planning on an Ultegra or Centaur build (maybe Chorus). Weight, while not super important, is pretty important to me. Finish quality is also pretty important. Lastly, I want to avoid going with a bike that everyone else owns. Clearly, ride quality is important. But, there are enough bikes out there that I should be able to get a good-riding yet unique bike.
> 
> All said, I've been looking at the following: Orbea Onix, Bianchi 928 Lugged, Marin Stelvio, Jamis Xenith, Cervelo R2.5. Any of these stand out as clear winners or losers? Anything else I've missed?
> 
> Thanks a ton in advance.
> 
> 
> 
> Peter


Why don't you look at Giant? I know that there are lots of them out there but who cares? They are darn good bikes. I have a Colnago C-50 and a Giant TCR carbon. The build quality on the Giant is every bit as good as the Colnago. The ride is excellent and outfitted with Centaur the bike is extremely light. I think it would give you everything you are looking for and it's in your price range. The only drawback is that it is a common bike and it lacks the prestige you may be looking for. 

Odds are that you will run into someone with the exact bike anyway. I bought a C-50 with the "spiderman" paint scheme and I was sure that my bike was unique. I figured that I would never see another one on the road. The very first group ride I went to I pulled out my bike and waited for others to arrive. The next guy that showed up pulled out the exact bike! I couldn't freaking believe it. Here we were, the only two guys there and we had the exact same bike.  

On the other hand, I bought the T-Mobile Giant TCR with the flame scheme. I have never seen anyone on that frame. So buy the bike that suits you best and don't worry what others have.


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## Mike Prince

*$3,500*

That buys a whole lot of frame, especially if you hang Centaur on it. I'd also check Calfee and Parlee out if you want something that stands out in a crowd. I believe they both have frames around the $2k price point, leaving about $1,500 for a build kit. Test rides could be a problem, tho...

Still it's probably worth an inquiry to both of them.


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## C-40

*forgot LOOK..*

LOOK has a lot of nice models and they're certainly less common than most. There always seems to be good discounts on last year's frames. For example, the 2003 KG 381 was often discounted from $2400 to $1600 and I found one for $1300 on E-bay with the special edition Jalabert paint. Couldn't pass that up. It's been a great ride. Every bit as nice as the Colnago C-40 that it replaced, with more suitable geometry.

Pay attention to the frame's geometry. I look at the geometry charts first. If the head tube length isn't listed, I find a supplier who can measure the frame size I'm interested in. Researching the geoemetry can save you the trouble of test riding a frame that won't fit very well, regardless of size, and/or has undesirable steering geometry.

FWIW, the LOOK steering geometry is one of the best I've owned. Plenty quick, but stable in high winds and on high speed mountain descents.

I haven't test ridden any of the bikes I've owned in the last 10 years. All were bare frames, built up from scratch. Only got one loser, the Litespeed Ultimate. Too stiff for me.


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## Cejay

velo-blue said:


> Hey all.
> 
> I'm planning on getting a new bike within the next few months and was looking for help with recommendations. I know I need to do the test rides. And, I plan to. Problem is, the dealers in my area basically carry only Trek, Lemond, Klein and Giant. So the test rides will require a trip; I want to keep the list narrow enough to avoid undue travel, etc.
> 
> In no particular order, here are my criteria.
> 
> I've ridden steel, aluminum and alumunim with carbon stays. I'd like to give full carbon a shot. I've got about $3,500 to spend - I'm planning on an Ultegra or Centaur build (maybe Chorus). Weight, while not super important, is pretty important to me. Finish quality is also pretty important. Lastly, I want to avoid going with a bike that everyone else owns. Clearly, ride quality is important. But, there are enough bikes out there that I should be able to get a good-riding yet unique bike.
> 
> All said, I've been looking at the following: Orbea Onix, Bianchi 928 Lugged, Marin Stelvio, Jamis Xenith, Cervelo R2.5. Any of these stand out as clear winners or losers? Anything else I've missed?
> 
> Thanks a ton in advance.
> 
> 
> 
> Peter



Check out this bike.

2004 Scattante CFR Limited Edition for just $1900 (they claim 16.4 lbs). I have never ridden it but for a full carbon frame at that weight it looks like a good deal. 

http://www.supergo.com/profile.cfm?LPROD_ID=24733&lsubcat_id=7618&lcat_id=&referpage=


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## KATZRKOL

*Max-Q's right on. .*

I've got a good amount of disposable income, and I bought the Giant TCR composite (built up full Record)  . It's a fantastic bike. It only lacks a label with a known good breed. I simply can not justify the C50's price tag for what you get. For a little less than the c50, you could get a Scott CR1, which is better (stiffness/weight) than a C50.


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## sbindra

*Giant's It*

If the Giant fits, think it is the best buy in Carbon frames. I spent less than $2K for the TCR 2. For the money you are spending, you could probably get full Dura-Ace 10 and Mavic SSL wheels.


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## velo-blue

*Thanks. More details I should have added.*

Thanks everyone. 

I suppose I should be upset that I haven't gotten any help in narrowing my list, but I appreciate the suggestions. Keep them coming! 

In terms of some suggestions, here's a few things I can add. (1) I like compact geometry. It's personal, but I like the way it feels and looks. This counts out Felt, Aegis, Calfee, etc. (2) I'd like to do a nice built with decent stem, bar, post, etc. So, I'm not sure I could afford anything but the bottom-tier Time, Look, Parlee. What does this do for weight, quality, etc.?

I find the suggestions steering me towards Kestrel and Giant tempting. But, if anyone knows about the other bikes I've noted, let me know - other than the Onix, info has been pretty scant.



Peter


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## C-40

*examples...*

For $3500 you should easily be able to put together a chorus level bike, particularly if you stick with wheels that don't cost more than $400. The LOOK KG 461 with Chorus should be about $3300. Just add $1700 to the frame price for a decent chorus kit.

Here's an example of the bargains that can be found on LOOK frames:

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=22681&item=7111103063&rd=1


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## Sherpa23

velo-blue said:


> Thanks everyone.
> 
> I suppose I should be upset that I haven't gotten any help in narrowing my list, but I appreciate the suggestions. Keep them coming!
> 
> In terms of some suggestions, here's a few things I can add. (1) I like compact geometry. It's personal, but I like the way it feels and looks. This counts out Felt, Aegis, Calfee, etc. (2) I'd like to do a nice built with decent stem, bar, post, etc. So, I'm not sure I could afford anything but the bottom-tier Time, Look, Parlee. What does this do for weight, quality, etc.?
> 
> I find the suggestions steering me towards Kestrel and Giant tempting. But, if anyone knows about the other bikes I've noted, let me know - other than the Onix, info has been pretty scant.
> 
> 
> 
> Peter



Peter.
The only material difference between the Parlee Z3 and the top of the line Z1 is the use of the wishbone rear seat stay and lack of custom geometry. This cuts down on the time it takes to build a bike. There is an advantage to the traditional seatstays but the materials, workmanship, construction methods, etc. of hte two models are the same. Of all the bikes that you mentioned, I find this one to be the best option.


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## Cejay

velo-blue said:


> Hey all.
> 
> I'm planning on getting a new bike within the next few months and was looking for help with recommendations. I know I need to do the test rides. And, I plan to. Problem is, the dealers in my area basically carry only Trek, Lemond, Klein and Giant. So the test rides will require a trip; I want to keep the list narrow enough to avoid undue travel, etc.
> 
> In no particular order, here are my criteria.
> 
> I've ridden steel, aluminum and alumunim with carbon stays. I'd like to give full carbon a shot. I've got about $3,500 to spend - I'm planning on an Ultegra or Centaur build (maybe Chorus). Weight, while not super important, is pretty important to me. Finish quality is also pretty important. Lastly, I want to avoid going with a bike that everyone else owns. Clearly, ride quality is important. But, there are enough bikes out there that I should be able to get a good-riding yet unique bike.
> 
> All said, I've been looking at the following: Orbea Onix, Bianchi 928 Lugged, Marin Stelvio, Jamis Xenith, Cervelo R2.5. Any of these stand out as clear winners or losers? Anything else I've missed?
> 
> Thanks a ton in advance.
> 
> 
> 
> Peter


I am a Parlee fan. I have a Z3 (compact frame) in my sights as soon as I get an Idea what my insurance settlement will be. Unfortunately for you they have raised their prices to 2950 for the Z3 (frame headset and fork). That would make your 3500 budget tough to stay under.


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## atpjunkie

*well if I was a Carbon Guy*

I'd gert the Merckx or the Look. and don't forget the Scotts and Nags. all 4 have huge euro Pro pedigrees and while the Giants are very nice, if ya got the loose cash why not? I'm not going to say anything negative about the Giants, it's a great bang for the buck but I just tend to like Eurp mfr's vs Asian.


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## Coolhand

Honestly, with all of the information you have given, it sure seems like Giant fits the bill, especially with your preference for compact geometry.


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## Sablotny

*Fully unqualified opinion...*

I've been shopping for carbon and have a lot of the same desires- some prestige, compact geometry, "good" weight though not extreme light weight, and at the top of the list: ride quality- a stiff, energetic feel. I've seen & ridden Kestrel Talons & 200SCi's. My Kestrel friends love their bikes, but they seem too flexy for me. Not sure how the Evokes ride- seen but not ridden them. Strange that most fork mfr's are on their second generation of carbon steerers, but Kestrel, a carbon specialist, still uses steel. Not sure what that means. I've heard that the 2005 Cervelo R2.5's have taken a large step up in build quality. That, and the fact that its the prettiest lookin' carbon bike to my eyes has me hankerin' for a test ride. My LBS is building up a 56cm (yessss!) R2.5 with DA10 that I'm hoping to test ride. First one I've seen around the northen SF Bay Area, and we've got something of a bike Mecca here.


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## 271828

I read a post in bikefanclub.com saying that Z3c will be available in custom geometry soon. I wonder if the price will be the same as stock geometry...


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## Sherpa23

271828 said:


> I read a post in bikefanclub.com saying that Z3c will be available in custom geometry soon. I wonder if the price will be the same as stock geometry...



Nope, $400 more.


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## Akirasho

*Kuota Ksano...*

... I've not logged a lot of miles on this rig (it's currently partially disassembled) cuz of health issues (this is an '04)... but it appears to be decent ride with a relatively unique look when compared to ubiquitous Treks and Giants...










... of course, these days, carbon is on the rise... with lots of alternatives.

https://www.kuota.it


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## Cejay

How about the Felt F2C. Has anyone ridden one?

$2500 for a 17 lb bike.

http://www.feltracing.com/2005_bikes/2005_f2c.html

Hey Sherpa23 when are you going to test ride the F1C.


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## taterbug

Cejay said:


> How about the Felt F2C. Has anyone ridden one?
> 
> $2500 for a 17 lb bike.
> 
> http://www.feltracing.com/2005_bikes/2005_f2c.html
> 
> Hey Sherpa23 when are you going to test ride the F1C.


I WISH I could find a Felt F2C to test. Checked around the Dallas area at supposed Felt dealers & not only does nobody have them, no one seems too keen on trying to get one in.
Very frustrating as it looks like a killer deal - full carbon with DA10 at around $2500.
Shokhead warned me about the rear der. hanger possibly not being replaceable and hence
could cause frame breakage in a wreck situation. Contacted Felt and they assured me the
hanger was aluminum & fully replaceable.


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## velo-blue

*So, a little more narrow...*

Looking at all the suggestions, I've got a new list. Here goes.

Cervelo R2.5
Bianchi 928 Carbon Lugged
Orbea Onix
Giant TCR Composite
Look 461 or 555

I think this is a pretty solid list and meets my needs for compact geometry with decent decor (more than just nude carbon and some logos - sorry to Kuota, Felt, Scott). 

The Looks are outsiders right now. I love the new colors, but they seem a little on the heavy (and pricey) side. I suppose a ride will reveal the whole story. Anyone want to chime in?



Peter


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## Oneheart

*LOOK kg 481SL*

Lots of good bikes mentioned. I've ridden many and now own a Look 481 SL. It will be hard if not impossible to find a better frame: sweet ride, excellent handling, light, uncommon (except in the pro peleton). I just returned from 2 weeks in France with mine and can't imagine finding a better bicycle.


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## BugMan

velo-blue said:


> The Looks are outsiders right now. I love the new colors, but they seem a little on the heavy (and pricey) side...


The claimed weight of the LOOK 555 frame w/ HSC5 carbon fork is only 1595 g - that ain't heavy at all in my book! Also, $2,200 retail seems pretty reasonable considering the reputation, performance, and style you get w/ any LOOK frame.


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## Akirasho

velo-blue0 said:


> I think this is a pretty solid list and meets my needs for compact geometry with decent decor (more than just nude carbon and some logos - sorry to Kuota, Felt, Scott).
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Peter


... FYI, Kuota hasn't really updated their website... they offer compact designs and a bit more flash in finish (though I'll admit... I love the look of nude fiber...)


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## Sherpa23

Cejay said:


> How about the Felt F2C. Has anyone ridden one?
> 
> $2500 for a 17 lb bike.
> 
> http://www.feltracing.com/2005_bikes/2005_f2c.html
> 
> Hey Sherpa23 when are you going to test ride the F1C.


I only got to ride one very briefly. I am supposed to get one for two weeks but they keep backing it up on me. I hope before Christmas for sure. It's either going to be the F1c or F2c but I was told that it's the same frame other than the type of carbon so I will have to ride both..

I did ride the F15 for a test and I was really impressed. What a great riding bike.


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## Cejay

Sherpa23 said:


> I only got to ride one very briefly. I am supposed to get one for two weeks but they keep backing it up on me. I hope before Christmas for sure. It's either going to be the F1c or F2c but I was told that it's the same frame other than the type of carbon so I will have to ride both..
> 
> I did ride the F15 for a test and I was really impressed. What a great riding bike.



I eagerly await your review.


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## Traveller

How about Argon 18. They have very good bikes for competitive prices.
--utpal


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## Cejay

I forgot about Argon 18. We considered them for our race team bike this and last year. We were considering their Mercury frame but had trouble negotiating the pricing we needed for only 10 or so frames. We went with Fort. 

I did like their high end carbon frames though. They opened up my eyes.


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## shokhead1

Cejay said:


> Check out this bike.
> 
> 2004 Scattante CFR Limited Edition for just $1900 (they claim 16.4 lbs). I have never ridden it but for a full carbon frame at that weight it looks like a good deal.
> 
> http://www.supergo.com/profile.cfm?LPROD_ID=24733&lsubcat_id=7618&lcat_id=&referpage=


I belive they only have a 5 year warr if thats a drawback.


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## shokhead1

Giant,lifetime warr and they are spec with top notch stuff,FSA,Easton,ect.


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## RivMac

Sablotny said:


> I've been shopping for carbon and have a lot of the same desires- some prestige, compact geometry, "good" weight though not extreme light weight, and at the top of the list: ride quality- a stiff, energetic feel. I've seen & ridden Kestrel Talons & 200SCi's. My Kestrel friends love their bikes, but they seem too flexy for me. Not sure how the Evokes ride- seen but not ridden them. Strange that most fork mfr's are on their second generation of carbon steerers, but Kestrel, a carbon specialist, still uses steel. Not sure what that means. I've heard that the 2005 Cervelo R2.5's have taken a large step up in build quality. That, and the fact that its the prettiest lookin' carbon bike to my eyes has me hankerin' for a test ride. My LBS is building up a 56cm (yessss!) R2.5 with DA10 that I'm hoping to test ride. First one I've seen around the northen SF Bay Area, and we've got something of a bike Mecca here.



Hey come East a bit to Davis, We've been drooling over one for weeks (54cm Dura-Ace/Zipp....sweet) and the 3-4 Framesets haning on the wall. But the Shop Guys say that bike outrght rocks, its super-light and durrable as hell, I mean Tyler crashed on it and rode the same bike though the tour.


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## BenR

*how'd your litespeed handle?*



C-40 said:


> LOOK has a lot of nice models and they're certainly less common than most. There always seems to be good discounts on last year's frames. For example, the 2003 KG 381 was often discounted from $2400 to $1600 and I found one for $1300 on E-bay with the special edition Jalabert paint. Couldn't pass that up. It's been a great ride. Every bit as nice as the Colnago C-40 that it replaced, with more suitable geometry.
> 
> Pay attention to the frame's geometry. I look at the geometry charts first. If the head tube length isn't listed, I find a supplier who can measure the frame size I'm interested in. Researching the geoemetry can save you the trouble of test riding a frame that won't fit very well, regardless of size, and/or has undesirable steering geometry.
> 
> FWIW, the LOOK steering geometry is one of the best I've owned. Plenty quick, but stable in high winds and on high speed mountain descents.
> 
> I haven't test ridden any of the bikes I've owned in the last 10 years. All were bare frames, built up from scratch. Only got one loser, the Litespeed Ultimate. Too stiff for me.


If I remeber right, they have short wheelbases but geometry that is otherwise middle of the road, especially with the stock fork rake. I was just curious. I know one guy with a '99 ultimate with the curved seat tube and he loves the thing even though he isn't a crit specialist. Says it has zero flex but rides nicely. His frame is too big for me to really get a good impression.

I'm assuming by "too stiff" you mean "too harsh riding?" Or, do you mean it had decent ride qualities (considering it is an overbuilt frame) and was just overkill for your stiffness needs i.e. you would have rather had a lighter frame. From what I understand, the vortex is a better all around stage racing bike but it sounds like the ultimate would be an awsome crit bike that can handle a few crashes and still be okay for long training rides. I realize this isn't your field of interest but would still like to get comments. 

I have a 99 Klein quantum that I love but I'm long overdue for a good crash and don't feel like paying lots of money for the increasingly fragile aluminum frames out there that can fold if you tap them in the wrong spot. Rule of thumb is to race what you can afford to replace, but cheap aluminum frames just don't offer the feedback, performance, or fit that I've become accustomed to. Good steel ain't cheap and carbon is way out of the price range, so buying used titanium is looking like a decent option if/when the Klein is totaled.


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## BenR

*agree on the giants*



sbindra said:


> If the Giant fits, think it is the best buy in Carbon frames. I spent less than $2K for the TCR 2. For the money you are spending, you could probably get full Dura-Ace 10 and Mavic SSL wheels.


IF you happen to fit one of their 3 sizes decently, they are really nice bikes. I've ridden one for a few miles and it was impressive. Handled crisply with no bb flex. I got some handlebar flex but suspect it was the wimpy newton stem that was on there. A Thompson or Forgie would take care of that. I admit, I have crappy sprinting technique but most people do at the end of a race.


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## shokhead1

BenR said:


> IF you happen to fit one of their 3 sizes decently, they are really nice bikes. I've ridden one for a few miles and it was impressive. Handled crisply with no bb flex. I got some handlebar flex but suspect it was the wimpy newton stem that was on there. A Thompson or Forgie would take care of that. I admit, I have crappy sprinting technique but most people do at the end of a race.


I belive 05's have 5 sizes.


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## C-40

*harsh riding...*

The Ultimate has changed since the '98 model. The short chainstays and bladed downtube made this 55cm frame too stiff for me, BUT I only weigh 135, so I get the harshest treatment. Heavier riders usually report better results.

The handling was fine. Litespeed's middle of the road 73 degree HTA allows you to select a 40, 43 or 45mm rake depending on how fast you want it to steer. I had a 40mm rake and 58mm of trail.

Actually, I think it would be hard to find a modern bike that didn't handle reasonably well. The range of HTA and fork rake offered by most manufactuers is quite narrow. If you have specific desires for quickness or increased stability, then a few brands can be singled out.


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## velo-blue

*A Decision Has Been Made - Thanks*

First off, thanks to everyone for all of your help, insights and advice. I couldn't believe all of the great suggestions - I only wish I could have taken every suggestion out for a test spin.

In the end - after many rides and deliberations - I went with the Orbea Onix. 

Details...
Frame: Onix (silver)
Group: Centaur
Cranks: SK-K Mega Exo Compact
Stem: FSA OS 115
Bar: FSA K Wing
Wheels: American Classic Sprint 350
Saddle: Aspide Arrowhead

We had a cold snap here in SW VA when I first took delivery. Then, I headed into the even colder Midwest for the Holidays. But, now that I've had the chance to put in a few hundred miles on it, I can give some first impressions. 

Ride: Comfortable/smooth and responsive/stiff. I know this sounds like marketing speak, so here are some disclaimers. The responsiveness and sitffness really took me by surprise at first. I suppose, looking at the bottom bracket area, it shouldn't have. Yet, coming from aluminum and aluminum-carbon hybrids, I really did notice the smoothness of the ride. Contrary to what I've seen some people say, I still feel every pothole (duh). But, the buzz is deadened without impacting my ability to "feel" the road. And, I think this prevents it from feeling "twitchy." This is subjective, sure. But, there are spots on my regular rides where you get speed bumps at the side of the road, leaving maybe a few inches of clear road before a drop off. I feel more cofident in shooting for these now - epecially on descents. I know this isn't conclusive, but it's something and I hope to have more insights as time goes by.

Looks / Construction: If you like the looks of a carbon monocoque (and I do) and you're not into airbrushing or fades (I'm not), then it's really a great option. The beefy headtube and BB area may be a little off-putting to fans of lugged frames, but I like them. Plus, the paint job is great. I replaced the stock cinelli cork tape with red/black Stella Azzurra Eleganza to play off the red FSA logos - combined with carbon components (seatpost, bar, cranks) it's a pretty set-up.

Anyway, thanks again for all your help. I really appreciate the time and in the end I think it resulted in the right decision for me. 



Peter


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## MikeBiker

velo-blue said:


> First off, thanks to everyone for all of your help, insights and advice. I couldn't believe all of the great suggestions - I only wish I could have taken every suggestion out for a test spin.
> 
> In the end - after many rides and deliberations - I went with the Orbea Onix.


 Peter,

Where is the picture?


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## velo-blue

*PIctures on the way...*

I'm on the road (again) but will get the pix up ASAP this weekend. 

Any requests? 

Cranks? Post? BB? Bar / Stem? My wife posed over it provocatively (trying to get some socks from Pez)? Just name it!



Peter


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## Zac Fisher

Was there anything about the others on your short list that eliminated them? Or was it a matter of just getting the one that felt right to you? I'm going through the same selection process, with mostly the same bikes, and would like to hear what you thought of them all, if you remember. My short list includes the Onix, Kharma, R2.5, Giant TCR comp 1, but I'm leaning mostly towards the Kharma and the R2.5 Chorus. I like the nude carbon look, but the new Kharmas are painted from what I can see (and more $$$), the Cervelo is decal/paint over nude carbon. I think the old Kharma is still available at my LBS if I want nude.

The R2.5 Chorus comes with, what else, a Chorus groupset, which is very appealing and I thought would price a bike out of my range, although I think a Kharma w/Chorus would be about the same. Maybe my limit keeps getting higher


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## euro-trash

velo-blue said:


> Thanks everyone.
> 
> I suppose I should be upset that I haven't gotten any help in narrowing my list, but I appreciate the suggestions. Keep them coming!
> 
> In terms of some suggestions, here's a few things I can add. (1) I like compact geometry. It's personal, but I like the way it feels and looks. This counts out Felt, Aegis, Calfee, etc. (2) I'd like to do a nice built with decent stem, bar, post, etc. So, I'm not sure I could afford anything but the bottom-tier Time, Look, Parlee. What does this do for weight, quality, etc.?
> 
> I find the suggestions steering me towards Kestrel and Giant tempting. But, if anyone knows about the other bikes I've noted, let me know - other than the Onix, info has been pretty scant.
> 
> 
> 
> Peter



I'm real happy with last year's all carbon Bianchi with Chorus. I'm a bike snob, and I can't find a thing wrong with it other than now I have no excuses. It's a semi-compact which works well. It cuts a little weight, but it doesn't look ugly (sorry, compacts are hideous) and I can still pinch my tt with my knees when it really fast on descents.


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## pavedroad

This thread is kind of dead, but I just wanted to point out that nobody mentioned the Giant TCR Advanced!


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## BNA_roadie

*Onix....*

I just got a Orbea Onix a few weeks ago. I'm a clydesdale, 5'11" 230 and CANNOT flex it. 
Its stiff as a board and climbs like a mother. The only difference is I tied & soldered my spokes. Best ride in my stable, comparing it to Merlin Ti, Casati steel w/carbon rear and Tommasini lugged steel. 
Orbea also has lifetime warranty on frame.


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## elviento

*Might consider Chorus*

If you are getting a $3500 bike, you oughta get at least Chorus. As for the exclusivity factor, a $3500 budget is a bit low for that anyways. In Max-Q's case, even a $6K budget wasn't enough, so what the hell. 



Max-Q said:


> Why don't you look at Giant? I know that there are lots of them out there but who cares? They are darn good bikes. I have a Colnago C-50 and a Giant TCR carbon. The build quality on the Giant is every bit as good as the Colnago. The ride is excellent and outfitted with Centaur the bike is extremely light. I think it would give you everything you are looking for and it's in your price range. The only drawback is that it is a common bike and it lacks the prestige you may be looking for.
> 
> Odds are that you will run into someone with the exact bike anyway. I bought a C-50 with the "spiderman" paint scheme and I was sure that my bike was unique. I figured that I would never see another one on the road. The very first group ride I went to I pulled out my bike and waited for others to arrive. The next guy that showed up pulled out the exact bike! I couldn't freaking believe it. Here we were, the only two guys there and we had the exact same bike.
> 
> On the other hand, I bought the T-Mobile Giant TCR with the flame scheme. I have never seen anyone on that frame. So buy the bike that suits you best and don't worry what others have.


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## velo-blue

*As promised...Onix Pix*

Well, I finally managed to carve out some time this weekend to take a few pictures of the new bike. My wife was too busy to model, but my dog is easier to bribe - hope this doesn't disappoint anyone.

As to my selection process, there really wasn't anything magical or mysterious about it. I ended up taking the Cervelo, Giant and Orbea out for rides. Wanted to take a Look 555 or Bianchi Lugged Carbon out, but didn't have much luck. Over the course of a test ride, all three felt good. The Giant felt a little twitchy. But other than that, all fit well and felt responsive/supple enough to get what I wanted out of carbon. 

That said, I also went into this realizing that there's only so much you can figure out from a test ride. Perfect fit will require component tweaks that may only make sense when it's Summer and I'm in better shape. The feel of bikes I rode was also (doubtless) impacted by tires, wheels, saddles, etc. 

So, in the end, I wasn't expecting any one bike to jump out as head-and-shoulders above the rest. I can't say enough about my Onix, but looks/finish and cost probably ended up tipping the scales. Maybe I just haven't ridden the right bike yet. Maybe I'm just not sophisticated enough to know the difference between a good bike and a great bike. Who knows? But, I think I make a great decision in the end.

Thanks again to everyone. If you're ever down in SW VA drop me a line and you can see what you think for yourself.



Peter


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## blurry

very nice....i like the hardwood too


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## Zac Fisher

Very nice. 

As for the testing process, your answer is what I expected. At this price there aren't really any bad bikes. I'll probably end up taking the same 3 bikes as you for test rides.


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## Samuel Garcia Galante

*Have you seen this one yet?*

I bought my 2005 all carbon triple monocoque frame, all carbon fork, Dura Ace, Ksyriun Elite, carbon everywhere, Specialized Tarmac Pro over the weekend, under $3,000 (let me know if you need details of the LBS I bought it from, these guys are the best). This seems to be a pretty good option, specially if you check out the frame stiffness specs on the chart included on the document contained at the following address: http://www.specialized.com/OA_MEDIA/pdf/Witchcraft.pdf 
This is definitely a bike you would not see often out there, and if you are riding it, other will see it shrinking ahead!


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## JBull_64

*Wow...*

That is one sweet ride. I'm sort of in the same boat (seeking carbon frame) and this thread has been a huge help. I've been keeping my eye out for a used Fondriest P4. Congrats on a fantastic bike. I hope it brings you many miles of riding pleasure...

JoBu


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## cyclist210

Here is my new ride. It weighs 16.5 when I added my saddle. I like riding less known frames, everyone turns their head to see it.


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## nkrax

Samuel Garcia Galante said:


> I bought my 2005 all carbon triple monocoque frame, all carbon fork, Dura Ace, Ksyriun Elite, carbon everywhere, Specialized Tarmac Pro over the weekend, under $3,000 (let me know if you need details of the LBS I bought it from, these guys are the best). This seems to be a pretty good option, specially if you check out the frame stiffness specs on the chart included on the document contained at the following address: http://www.specialized.com/OA_MEDIA/pdf/Witchcraft.pdf
> This is definitely a bike you would not see often out there, and if you are riding it, other will see it shrinking ahead!



Ride wise, how does this bike differ from the Roubaix line? It obviously looks different. I have yet to take either of these bikes for a spin, but might do so this weekend. Also, what is the Tarmac's intended use? I assume that it is more race oriented than the Roubaix.

Thanks,
nkrax


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## Jamieshankland

I know its a name not normaly associated with road bikes but check out the new Norco CCR Team. all carbon, sooooooooooooooooo nice!


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## Angelracer

I went to my LBS today and I saw the Onix the first time ever. I have obsessed over this bike since Octorber, I cant wait till I am can get it. I personally think its the most beautyful bike Ive ever seen, good luck with yours, by the way, how much does does your Onix weigh?


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## Long Live Long Rides

*Tcr*



velo-blue said:


> Hey all.
> 
> I'm planning on getting a new bike within the next few months and was looking for help with recommendations. I know I need to do the test rides. And, I plan to. Problem is, the dealers in my area basically carry only Trek, Lemond, Klein and Giant. So the test rides will require a trip; I want to keep the list narrow enough to avoid undue travel, etc.
> 
> In no particular order, here are my criteria.
> 
> I've ridden steel, aluminum and alumunim with carbon stays. I'd like to give full carbon a shot. I've got about $3,500 to spend - I'm planning on an Ultegra or Centaur build (maybe Chorus). Weight, while not super important, is pretty important to me. Finish quality is also pretty important. Lastly, I want to avoid going with a bike that everyone else owns. Clearly, ride quality is important. But, there are enough bikes out there that I should be able to get a good-riding yet unique bike.
> 
> All said, I've been looking at the following: Orbea Onix, Bianchi 928 Lugged, Marin Stelvio, Jamis Xenith, Cervelo R2.5. Any of these stand out as clear winners or losers? Anything else I've missed?
> 
> Thanks a ton in advance.
> 
> 
> 
> Peter



Giant TCR Comp 1. Try out the geometry and, if you like it, go this route. It's a real sharp looking bike and is super fast.The geometry makes for a great hill-climbing and sprinting bike (with a stiff rear triangle) and the components are slightly better than what you mentioned. I know a guy who rode a 5900, then a TCR, and finally an Orbea Orca and has ended up sticking with the TCR. He seems to think it's the best balance of comfort and performance. I'd say check it out.


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