# Generic Training for a Cat 5 Racer



## desertdude70 (Mar 5, 2010)

I am a fairly lightweight (135 lb) 40 year old wanna-be racer who is fairly fit with decent bike handling skills. I used to race long ago and was a fairly consistent top ten finisher in crits and road races. I never really had too much structure in my training then, I rode ~ 150 miles a week, hit alot of hills, and did group rides and races on the weekends. It worked to keep me in the front of the pack but did not give me the power to ride effectively in a break or win field sprints, thus, top ten's but no real wins. 

Jump to now; I'm back as a cat 5 racer and have done 4 local events... all top ten finishes. Not bad, but I feel I am capable of more as I'm not getting beat by much. I currently train only about 8 - 10 hours a week, which consists mainly of the Carmichael "time crunched" program. This was a good system for me in the beginning and I know that the masses of intervals did me a wealth of good. However, I've completed the first 11 week training cycle and now am wanting more than 8 hours a week on the bike.

I've talked to several local racers ranging from cat's 1 - 4 about what my training strategy should become, with very mixed results: Some said "just ride for fun for awhile then hit the intervals again, Some said "don't take a rest or lay off the intervals, just keep at it". Other said, hit every fast group ride throughout the week (~ 3 or 4 including a crit) and you'll be fine. All good advice I am sure, but none of it works out very well for me. I currently have a bit of time to ride, but on a different schedule than most. Most of the group rides are out, I can only do them on the weekends and an occasional TNW crit.

I just ordered the Freil "bible" as that has seemed to be highly recommended on this site and see what I can find that can help me out. I personally feel that I want to hit 12 - 15 hours a week on the bike (all that I have time for); high intensity/ intervals at least 2 x a week, a couple longer group type rides in the 3 - 4 hour each range (50 - 75 miles), a couple recovery days of tempo paced and easier spinning thrown in to recover. I am also heavily considering a speed work out day which will consist of mainly acceleration and sprints in the hopes of improving my field sprint results. Most of my upcoming races this season will be short 30 minute crits so I know I will need the intervals but I am planning some road races that are ~ 50 miles. Am I on the right track or out in left field?

Sorry for the long read, thanks in advance for the tips.


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## Undecided (Apr 2, 2007)

I think you're very much on the right track, but consider that not every week needs to have the same focus and that you can look several weeks ahead. I'm one who thinks it does help to have an advance idea of what the plan is. So you could sketch out that you'll spend a few weeks, where, for example, one area is the number one priority, but you do some conscious effort on one or two other areas, too, then maybe you take a less focused week and see how you feel before moving on to the next block where maybe you reverse or reorder the emphasis. I try to remember that the specific elements of my workouts are what's most important, and if they alone are crushing me, I might not do a lot of other stressful riding, but if I'm doing what I'm concentrating on and not feeling overly fatigued, I tend to increase the intensity of the steady endurance/temp efforts (which often end up as a good portion of my riding week). Group rides are fun and offer benefits, but they may not match up with the plan for any particular week, so don't worry about not getting to so many of them.


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## CHT (Mar 1, 2001)

FWIW, I'm in a similar situation. Just a few years older and coming back to racing. My few outings this season have also been similar in placement. If it helps, I'm taking the same approach as you. I can't always do the group/team rides, but get my training in during the morning and on the weekends. I shoot for intervals 2x a week, but include race day as one interval session (which it very often is). Very often my long ride will be after the race for a few hours. The comment about looking ahead is spot on. Currently I'm in the middle of a 6 week crit/training series, so my focus is more on building strength in my sprint and keeping near the front to contest (intervals and tempo). That and recovery are my priorities so I can contest every Sun for the win or a top placement. Looking ahead, I have some road races coming up, so my focus will shift to more tempo, climbing, and endurance. For me and my age (44), recovery is just as important as the other aspects of training, even if I may not log the same hours as others. I'm focused more on the quality of the miles vs. quantity but not to the exclusion of endurance. Until you get into the higher categories (cat 3 and better) where the race distances really increase, I don't think logging mileage is as much of an issue as quality miles if you are time crunched.


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## MontyCrisco (Sep 21, 2008)

You might find it hard to hop into a full year Friel-style training plan at this stage, since it sounds like you want to get racing sometime soon. He really lays it out so you're working out your racing calendar for the spring/summer all the way back in December, and planning when to peak based on a slow progression of prep, base, build, peak. That said the book is chock full of information that you can use to inform whatever training program you end up putting together. 

Note that if you find the TCCS is not enough intensity (or is too "short") you'll go crazy with a Friel-style program, which involves long weeks of minimal intensity, and then adds the LT/VO2Max intervals very slowly. The rest of the time you're doing lots and lots of moderate-intensity miles, hills and drills. 

One thing Friel he talks about is sprint intervals, where you work on sprinting form, or holding a sprint for 30s then rest 6m, repeat multiple times. Seems like that should help with developing better power at the top end. The TCCS really doesn't do as much of this - really just the peak-fade power intervals, which are kind of similar but with much less recovery time and fewer repetitions. So, if you stuck with the TCCS, you could always tack on some more focused sprint work, either replacing the peak-fade intervals, or tacking some of these onto your weekend interval or recovery ride.


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## rocco (Apr 30, 2005)

Generic Training = generic results jumps out at me.


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## rocco (Apr 30, 2005)

This approach for the time crunched is growing in prevalence but I find there's no real substitute for more miles (and all miles can be quality miles... they just have different qualities). 

"Ride lots." -- Eddy Merckx


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## pretender (Sep 18, 2007)

I think there is a lot of good information in the Friel books, but I think the degree of periodization he recommends is too extreme, especially for amateurs.


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## PhysioJoe (May 6, 2008)

Feel free to train 12-15 hours a week, but you will either get burned out or the majority of those will be junk miles. Or worse, both. If your races are 30-90 minutes, theres no reason to be riding that distance a total of 15 times per week. Most likely, the guys beating you in cat 4/5 races are averaging 4-8 hours per week, even though you might only hear about their 5 hour mega rides (that happen 2x per year...)

I went from 10-14 hours as a better than most cat 3, to 7-9 hours and I am way faster now. I emphasized tempo over the winter, and everything else pretty much improved. Without even doing any intensity yet. A power meter helps too, obviously.
-Physiojoe


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## desertdude70 (Mar 5, 2010)

CHT said:


> FWIW, I'm in a similar situation. Just a few years older and coming back to racing. My few outings this season have also been similar in placement. If it helps, I'm taking the same approach as you. I can't always do the group/team rides, but get my training in during the morning and on the weekends. I shoot for intervals 2x a week, but include race day as one interval session (which it very often is). Very often my long ride will be after the race for a few hours. The comment about looking ahead is spot on. Currently I'm in the middle of a 6 week crit/training series, so my focus is more on building strength in my sprint and keeping near the front to contest (intervals and tempo). That and recovery are my priorities so I can contest every Sun for the win or a top placement. Looking ahead, I have some road races coming up, so my focus will shift to more tempo, climbing, and endurance. For me and my age (44), recovery is just as important as the other aspects of training, even if I may not log the same hours as others. I'm focused more on the quality of the miles vs. quantity but not to the exclusion of endurance. Until you get into the higher categories (cat 3 and better) where the race distances really increase, I don't think logging mileage is as much of an issue as quality miles if you are time crunched.


 I tend to agree with you in that lots of guys in higher Cat's are wanting to do longish / hard road rides (80 miles with climbs for example) and I just can't see that benefiting me much even with a 50 mile, rolling RR coming up next week. For most of my remaining season its going to be 30 minute crits. so while I'd like to have some endurance so I can do a 40 - 50 mile Cat 5 road race, my bread and butter event is going to be high intensity crit racing with a field sprint finish.


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## desertdude70 (Mar 5, 2010)

pretender said:


> I think there is a lot of good information in the Friel books, but I think the degree of periodization he recommends is too extreme, especially for amateurs.


I was hoping to be able to "blend" Carmichaels Time Crunched intervals in with some of Friels stuff and create a regimine that works well for me... hoping. I will have to read the Friel book and see what can be done. The Carmichael book is not bad, it just has areas that leave me wanting.


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## desertdude70 (Mar 5, 2010)

PhysioJoe said:


> Feel free to train 12-15 hours a week, but you will either get burned out or the majority of those will be junk miles. Or worse, both. If your races are 30-90 minutes, theres no reason to be riding that distance a total of 15 times per week. Most likely, the guys beating you in cat 4/5 races are averaging 4-8 hours per week, even though you might only hear about their 5 hour mega rides (that happen 2x per year...)
> 
> I went from 10-14 hours as a better than most cat 3, to 7-9 hours and I am way faster now. I emphasized tempo over the winter, and everything else pretty much improved. Without even doing any intensity yet. A power meter helps too, obviously.
> -Physiojoe


I totally agree that more hours/ miles is not always better or beneficial. If one is just cruising around and logging time on the bike that won't necessarily make you a better racer IMO, or am I wrong? I believe that one must ride with a purpose, or a plan. I usually have a workout plan for each day I ride and do my best to stick to it. Group rides are the exception, there is no plan there, just hammer. My intent is to get more hours of purposefull training that will help me to become a faster Cat 5 bicycle racer. All I have access to now is a HR moniter... no power meter for me


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## Dopamine (Jun 2, 2009)

PhysioJoe said:


> Feel free to train 12-15 hours a week, but you will either get burned out or the majority of those will be junk miles. Or worse, both. If your races are 30-90 minutes, theres no reason to be riding that distance a total of 15 times per week. Most likely, the guys beating you in cat 4/5 races are averaging 4-8 hours per week, even though you might only hear about their 5 hour mega rides (that happen 2x per year...)
> 
> I went from 10-14 hours as a better than most cat 3, to 7-9 hours and I am way faster now. I emphasized tempo over the winter, and everything else pretty much improved. Without even doing any intensity yet. A power meter helps too, obviously.
> -Physiojoe


I did pretty much the same thing as you, got a power meter and started riding a bunch of tempo at 8-10 hours per week since last fall and am riding better than ever without doing any intensity yet; just started TT 2x20's last week and am crushing personal best Power/Weight ratios.

Remember all the idiot USA Cycling coaches who used to tell us that riding Zone 3 / tempo was the "dead zone" effort that should be avoided at all costs? :mad2:


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## Dopamine (Jun 2, 2009)

To the OP: I'd recommend making aerobic tempo (zone 3) riding and time trial (zone 4) intervals the main focus of your training to really develop that aerobic system, even for short crits. You will get your anaerobic work in the races and at group rides now and then; maybe throw in an anaerobic interval day no more than once per week. 

A lot of people think they need to work on their anaerobic power when they are having trouble in races when the hammer goes down when in reality it's their threshold (sustainable aerobic) power that's the real problem.

But this is what's nice about a power meter, it will tell you exactly what your strengths and weaknesses are as well as quantify objectively what you are doing in your training.


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## desertdude70 (Mar 5, 2010)

Funny thing is I too have been trying to avoid tempo pace, which is where I most often like to ride. I like to ride "as fast as I can sustain without going into debt" / tempo, but have read that one should do either hard efforts like intervals or easier recovery spinning. I really don't like to just cruise around unless its a dedicated recovery day and I'm really tired and hurting, otherwise I much prefer to push the pace. Maybe thats been the secret to my limited success, my desire to ride lots of tempo even if it is only 10 hours a week?


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## Alex_Simmons/RST (Jan 12, 2008)

desertdude70 said:


> Sorry for the long read, thanks in advance for the tips.


Maybe go for a custom training plan suitable for you and you goals, riding history, fitness level and availability to train?
Training Plans


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## Jesse D Smith (Jun 11, 2005)

*This*

"...hit every fast group ride throughout the week (~ 3 or 4 including a crit)"
You'll get the interval training, polish your group riding skills, and gain what I think is the missing links between a top-ten and a win- the confidence and courage to try. Someone's gotta win, it might as well be you.


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