# Which is a better buy



## Verticle (Jun 11, 2016)

Hello, getting back into the sport and looking for opinions on two bikes I'm considering off Craigslist. I plan to ride for for fun/health primarily but I tend to be an enthusiast when getting into things, so who knows where this might go. Also, my 5 yr is now riding so I'd like to join her on short rides. I thought of buying a cheap bike but the nicer ones talk to me. The two currently still available that I'm eyeing are a 2007 system six team 1 si compact and 2014 scott solace 20.

'07 Sys six: asking $1500, dura race components, Mavic kysirum es rims, black painted frame (no signs of corrosion apparently) never crashed, original owner. I like the look of this one the most! 

'14 Solace 20 compact: asking $1600 will accept $1400, ultegra 6800 components, one owner like new condition, under warranty with receipt. 

I know the Sys 6 is a well liked race bike but is the asking price reasonable given its age? The more comfort focused solace is newer which makes the asking price more understandable, I guess. I realize these are two totally different bikes designed for two different things, but if they both feel good, what would you recommend? 

Thanks


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## Lombard (May 8, 2014)

Which one fits better? That is the one you should buy.


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## Verticle (Jun 11, 2016)

Do you think $1500 is a fair price for the '07 system I mentioned, emotions aside?


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## Lombard (May 8, 2014)

Verticle said:


> Do you think $1500 is a fair price for the '07 system I mentioned, emotions aside?


Is this the bike:

2007 Cannondale SystemSix Team Si 1 Compact - BikePedia 

Original MSRP is $4,799. You probably can't go wrong for $1,500. I would say it all depends on the mileage on the bike and how much wear the components have on them. Did you test ride the bike? I'd say it's more like whether it's a fair price or a steal!

Is this the '14 Scott Solace 20:

2014 Scott Solace 20 - BikePedia 


Keep in mind these are two different types of bikes. The Cannondale has a more aggressive race type geometry which will have you down low in front. The Scott has a more relaxed upright geometry. It all depends what type of rider position you like better.

Did I mention fit? Yes, this is more important than anything. The best bike deal out there is no deal if the bike hurts when you ride it.


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## Verticle (Jun 11, 2016)

Yes, those are the bikes. I was worried about overpaying for the systemsix due to its age.

I've done a bit of test riding at local shops and no matter how aggressive a bike is, the only thing hurting afterwards is my butt. I'm fairly fit and have been riding sportbike motorcycles for years (not exactly the same as a road bike, I know). I understand these two bikes were designed for different purposes so I'll definitely keep that in mind. I'll be test riding both in a few days.

I guess I'm surprised the systemsix value on paper is so high after almost 10 years.


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## fast ferd (Jan 30, 2009)

I'm a Dura Ace guy, but that Ultegra 11sp impresses the hell out of me. It works equally well as the 7800 from '07. Unless my eyes deceive me, that big chainring looks worn. Sometimes the cassette, pulleys, and chain follow suit, if the owner did not routinely service. And if the Cannondale saw 50k miles - not a stretch - other stuff could require work or potentially wear out. Hard to imagine much mileage accumulated on the 6800 drivetrain. My vote is for the Scott.


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## Verticle (Jun 11, 2016)

fast ferd said:


> I'm a Dura Ace guy, but that Ultegra 11sp impresses the hell out of me. It works equally well as the 7800 from '07. Unless my eyes deceive me, that big chainring looks worn. Sometimes the cassette, pulleys, and chain follow suit, if the owner did not routinely service. And if the Cannondale saw 50k miles - not a stretch - other stuff could require work or potentially wear out. Hard to imagine much mileage accumulated on the 6800 drivetrain. My vote is for the Scott.


Thanks for the insight. Aesthetically speaking, I do gravitate to towards the Cannondale. The fact that parts can fail sooner than later does make the allure of a newer bike more appealing.


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## Oh My Sack! (Apr 11, 2016)

That Cannondale books at $1043-$633 from Excellent down to Fair, respectively. 

Personally, I prefer the Scott's geometry, it's age, and it's newer 6800 groupset. I'd factor in the typical craigslist discount and jump on that one if it's cherry.

The Scott books at $1860- $1129 from Excellent - Fair. Values based on Bicycle Blue Book


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## Lombard (May 8, 2014)

I would have to agree with Fast Ferd and Oh My Sack. I have the Ultegra 6800 groupset and the shifting is sublime! Shimano's Dua-Ace technology has trickled down to the Ultegra components in its latest generation. 

As much as I like Cannondale, that bike is 7 years older than the Scott. Scott is a very good brand too. While age doesn't concern me on a bike, mileage does. My other concern is the wheelset. Mavic's quality control can be spotty. Some of their rims have been known to crack around the spoke holes. In fairness, I know someone who got 40K miles out of a set of Ksyriums, but I have also heard plenty of stories of early failures. It's the luck of the draw.

At this point, my gut feeling tells me to go with the Scott. But as I said before, fit overrides everything. Ride both and buy the one that feels best. Neither one is a bad deal.

As far as your butt hurting after rides, that's a rite of passage! I went through about a dozen saddles before I found the one that works for me - the Serfas Rx Men's specific.


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## PJ352 (Dec 5, 2007)

My input on this.... 



Verticle said:


> *'14 Solace 20 compact:* asking $1600 will accept $1400, ultegra 6800 components, one owner like new condition, *under warranty with receipt. *


Don't count on this. To my knowledge, *no* bike manufacturer offers transferable warranties, and most require the original owner to register their bike. Some require follow-up inspections. I think you'd be hard pressed to get a claim processed. 

Bottom line, don't let this 'promise' sway you in the purchase. Rather, follow the advice of some here... test ride a bunch of bikes, buy the one that fits and feels best. THAT one is the best deal, because you'll actually ride it.


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## Verticle (Jun 11, 2016)

I really appreciate the feedback. I'll try to ride both and go with the one that feels best. Being more concerned with a bikes mileage vs age is understandable. 

Is it possible to repair the Mavic rims if damaged around the spoke holes? If so, hopefully I can spot such a repair. How much do you think I would cost to replace the Cannondale component's once worn out, roughly?


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## PJ352 (Dec 5, 2007)

Verticle said:


> I really appreciate the feedback. I'll try to ride both and go with the one that feels best. Being more concerned with a bikes mileage vs age is understandable.
> 
> Is it possible to repair the Mavic rims if damaged around the spoke holes? If so, hopefully I can spot such a repair. How much do you think I would cost to replace the Cannondale component's once worn out, roughly?


Once rims show signs of damage, think replace versus repair. You can save the hubs, buy a new rim (or rims) and have them re-laced. 

Components don't wear out all at once. You can poke around on a website (ex: Nashbar) and tally up the cost of some replacement parts. But what I suggest is that once you decide on the bike, ask the seller to bring it to a reputable shop for both fit/ mechanical assessment. They may also offer a ballpark street price for the bike. If they charge a fee for the services, chalk it up to getting some peace of mind that you bought a solid bike.


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## Migen21 (Oct 28, 2014)

"Value" is a judgement thing. What is more important to you ? Newer, better quality? Aestetics? 

For me and my money, I would consider the Scott strongly over the Cannondale just because I tend to like my toys to be newer and shinier.


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## PJ352 (Dec 5, 2007)

Migen21 said:


> I tend to like my toys to be newer and shinier.


Speaking of which, given the OP's budget he could buy new from a reputable shop. There, he'll get sizing/ fit assistance and a warranty - and won't have to fret over aging framesets/ components. That's the way I'd go.


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## Lombard (May 8, 2014)

Verticle said:


> Is it possible to repair the Mavic rims if damaged around the spoke holes? If so, hopefully I can spot such a repair. How much do you think I would cost to replace the Cannondale component's once worn out, roughly?


You cannot repair cracks. A cracked rim is a JUNK rim. With a magnifying glass in plenty of light, you should be able to see spoke hole cracks. Inspect carefully. The other problem with these rims is that the rear hub is only compatible with 8, 8 and 10 speed cassettes. If you decide to go to 11-speed, you need a new wheel. And since they have proprietary parts, you cannot take it apart and replace only the hub.

Cost of new componentry? Depends on what you replace with. Google Dura-Ace and Ultegra chain, cassette and crankset.


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## Verticle (Jun 11, 2016)

Just returned from test riding the Scott and it is a very nice bike, excellent physical condition. While the bike was comfortable, I could not get the gears to change to the smallest sprocket. The owner then confirmed this after jumping on. Is this a matter of adjustment?

The front brake felt good but the chain stay mounted rear was kind of...mushy! I read about this in an online review somewhere so I guess it's true. 

I've been to three bike shops so far and when I ask about sizing they simply ask how tall I am (6' - 6'1) and say, a 58cm should be good. I've watched videos of how detailed a real fitting is but I highly doubt my local shops will offer that. I'll stop by a shop tomorrow for more test riding in the mean time.


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## Oh My Sack! (Apr 11, 2016)

Verticle said:


> Just returned from test riding the Scott and it is a very nice bike, excellent physical condition. While the bike was comfortable, I could not get the gears to change to the smallest sprocket. The owner then confirmed this after jumping on. Is this a matter of adjustment?
> 
> The front brake felt good but the chain stay mounted rear was kind of...mushy! I read about this in an online review somewhere so I guess it's true.
> 
> I've been to three bike shops so far and when I ask about sizing they simply ask how tall I am (6' - 6'1) and say, a 58cm should be good. I've watched videos of how detailed a real fitting is but I highly doubt my local shops will offer that. I'll stop by a shop tomorrow for more test riding in the mean time.


I'm a wrench and do all my own builds/adjustments/etc. A tune up of the front and rear derailleur is a 15 minute deal. It sounds like the gear change issue is probably just a limit screw adjustment. Use it as leverage in your negotiation. Your going to have to spend more money on it to get it right at a shop. Then fix it yourself.


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## PJ352 (Dec 5, 2007)

Verticle said:


> Just returned from test riding the Scott and it is a very nice bike, excellent physical condition. While the bike was comfortable, I could not get the gears to change to the smallest sprocket. The owner then confirmed this after jumping on. Is this a matter of adjustment?
> 
> The front brake felt good but the chain stay mounted rear was kind of...mushy! I read about this in an online review somewhere so I guess it's true.


The problem not dropping to the smallest cog is most likely a RD adjustment. But if it's due to a shifter problem, a not so simple (or inexpensive) fix. This is why it's a good idea to bring used bikes to a reputable LBS for assessment prior to purchasing. If the seller balks, there may be good reason.

I put rear brakes located at the chainstays in the same category as internal cable routing, integrated seat posts and OSBB's - bad designs solving a problem no one had. 

That said, it's quite possibly a relatively easy (and minor) fix, but another reason to bring the bike to your LBS for assessment. 



Verticle said:


> I've been to three bike shops so far and when I ask about sizing they simply ask how tall I am (6' - 6'1) and say, a 58cm should be good. I've watched videos of how detailed a real fitting is but I highly doubt my local shops will offer that. I'll stop by a shop tomorrow for more test riding in the mean time.


I don't know what vids you're referring to, but don't confuse pro fits with a standard LBS fitting which would be included in a bike purchase. They're very different fittings.

That said, it's unfortunate, but a lot of shops don't provide their customers with proper fitting. That's why it's important to shop for shops along with bikes when buying new. A shop that promotes test rides - out on the roads and for some duration - and sets you up on the bikes prior to those test rides is a reputable shop. 

When you visit these shops, ask what a fitting consists of and how long they typically take. If they tell you a few minutes to adjust the saddle, leave and go to another... till you find a shop that talks about watching you on a stationary bike, setting saddle adjustments, then reach and drop (stem/ spacer adjustments). Then sending you off on a test ride, getting your input for tweaks to fit when you return.

Those tweaks are common, and may be needed post-purchase until you acclimate to road riding. All included at the 'better' shops.


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## Mr645 (Jun 14, 2013)

For that kind of money you can probably find a new bike at a LBS that will come with a lot of support, free adjustments, warranty and advice which will be valuable as you begin road riding. 
I too come from a sport bike background and found that the race geometry frames are fine for even long distance rides. Sport bike riding develops a solid core as you support yourself on the motorcycle.


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## Verticle (Jun 11, 2016)

I just revisited one of the LBS and I felt I knew more about some of the bikes than the rep helping me. And I've been researching bikes for less than two weeks. For instance, I wanted to test ride one of the Synapse models to compare to the solace, and he didn't think the synapse was any different than a race bike. 

I rode a 2015 CAAD10 with disc brakes and Sram Rival listed for $2170 (deal possible). I really liked the double tap gear levers compared to the other style I've tried (not sure what there called) and the front disc brake. A tap of the front disc and I really felt the bite, the back not so much. I couldn't get the rear brake to lock up when completely squeezing the lever, I guess an adjustment would change this.

I then rode the matte black 2016 CAAD12 in the only size available (56) and I really enjoyed it. $1680 and no deal. I think I could be happy with this bike in the correct frame size (58), but the shop told me the matte black is sold out from Cannondale and they doubt more will be produced, due to the new year approaching. The manager told me this. They said they could order the glossy black/green scheme in my size and only 4 were available. The glossy black/green is nice but the matte black resonates with me.

I'm going to call around to see if anyone has the matte black in my size.


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## Lombard (May 8, 2014)

Verticle said:


> I just revisited one of the LBS and I felt I knew more about some of the bikes than the rep helping me. And I've been researching bikes for less than two weeks. For instance, I wanted to test ride one of the Synapse models to compare to the solace, and he didn't think the synapse was any different than a race bike.


Sounds like you need to move on to a different bike shop if this is the case. Any bike sales person worth their weight should know that the Synapse is an endurance bike, not a race bike.



Verticle said:


> I think I could be happy with this bike in the correct frame size (58), but the shop told me the matte black is sold out from Cannondale and they doubt more will be produced, due to the new year approaching.


This is correct. Cannondale will come out with their 2017s in July-August. At this point, you may as well wait.


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## PJ352 (Dec 5, 2007)

Verticle said:


> I just revisited one of the LBS and I felt I knew more about some of the bikes than the rep helping me. And I've been researching bikes for less than two weeks. For instance, I wanted to test ride one of the Synapse models to compare to the solace, and he didn't think the synapse was any different than a race bike.


It's very possible that you do know more than the "rep" (aka, a person working a part time retail job). But it's also possible that he thought the difference between race and endurance geo is subtle, so no tangible difference.

The Specialized Roubaix wins its share of pro circuit races. 



Verticle said:


> I rode a 2015 CAAD10 with disc brakes and Sram Rival listed for $2170 (deal possible). I really liked the double tap gear levers compared to the other style I've tried (not sure what there called) and the front disc brake. A tap of the front disc and I really felt the bite, the back not so much. I couldn't get the rear brake to lock up when completely squeezing the lever, I guess an adjustment would change this.


JMO, but I'm not a fan of disc brakes on road bikes. Increased weight, higher cost and (generally) more maintenance/ adjustments needed. 



Verticle said:


> I then rode the matte black 2016 CAAD12 in the only size available (56) and I really enjoyed it. $1680 and no deal. I think I could be happy with this bike in the correct frame size (58), but the shop told me the matte black is sold out from Cannondale and they doubt more will be produced, due to the new year approaching. The manager told me this. They said they could order the glossy black/green scheme in my size and only 4 were available. The glossy black/green is nice but the matte black resonates with me.
> 
> I'm going to call around to see if anyone has the matte black in my size.


If you *know* a 56 is the right frame size for you in this make/ model, I think your plan is a good one. If the LBS isn't capable of dialing in your fit if/ when you make the purchase, you could always seek out a reputable fitter in your area. 

Things shouldn't be this way, but still, buying from a LBS gets you a substantially better bike than buying used, and you'll get a warranty.


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## Verticle (Jun 11, 2016)

There's a shop an 1.5 hrs away with my size and color choice in stock, and their $130 cheaper with no tax. This doesn't give me all the benefits of buying locally but at least the bike would be new. 

The seller of the systemsix hasn't responded to my email/text so I'm disregarding that idea.


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## PJ352 (Dec 5, 2007)

Verticle said:


> There's a shop an 1.5 hrs away with my size and color choice in stock, and their $130 cheaper with no tax. This doesn't give me all the benefits of buying locally but at least the bike would be new.
> 
> The seller of the systemsix hasn't responded to my email/text so I'm disregarding that idea.


Buying from a shop 1.5 hrs away still gets you a warranty (*any* C'dale dealer has to honor it), so you really aren't losing much - and you're gaining $130 and maybe a better fit process. 

I've driven further to test ride bikes, so I'd strongly consider making the drive.


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## Oh My Sack! (Apr 11, 2016)

Curious, what frame geo is it that you're going for...have you decided? That Synapse, even with a 105 build, is a real nice bike if the more comfortable endurance frame is an option. And if your looking at new now, you should check the Specialized Roubaix, as well. I have the Roubaix but when shopping the new bikes at one point, it was a tough call between those 2 models of equivalent builds (105) as both were priced at about $2100 retail. That green/black Synapse would likely be my choice today if I hadn't stumbled onto a sweet Roubaix deal. It's easy on the eyes, but that's just me.


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## Verticle (Jun 11, 2016)

PJ352 said:


> Buying from a shop 1.5 hrs away still gets you a warranty (*any* C'dale dealer has to honor it), so you really aren't losing much - and you're gaining $130 and maybe a better fit process.
> 
> I've driven further to test ride bikes, so I'd strongly consider making the drive.


True regarding warranty, I'd just loose out on small things like free adjustments etc. which aren't a huge deal. I'm up for the drive, still trying to see if one could be found closer though. I called one shop and the guy told me he could set me up on a trainer to get me started. I'll be heading there today or tomorrow to see if the 58 is indeed my size. They do more thorough sizing as well. 



Oh My Sack! said:


> Curious, what frame geo is it that you're going for...have you decided? That Synapse, even with a 105 build, is a real nice bike if the more comfortable endurance frame is an option. And if your looking at new now, you should check the Specialized Roubaix, as well. I have the Roubaix but when shopping the new bikes at one point, it was a tough call between those 2 models of equivalent builds (105) as both were priced at about $2100 retail. That green/black Synapse would likely be my choice today if I hadn't stumbled onto a sweet Roubaix deal. It's easy on the eyes, but that's just me.


I started off considering cyclocross because its more versatile, thinking I'd get more bang for my buck. In reality, I'll be on pavement mostly. During test rides I feel just as comfy on race bikes as I do endurance. At this point, I'm trying to consider things other than just comfort, like price, components, appeal etc. So far I've been on the following:

Specialized diverge
Solace 20
2014 Supersix Evo
2013 Jamis Icon Pro
2015 CAAD10 Rival
2016 CAAD12 105
A few others I can't recall

I haven't found a shop with my size Synapse or Roubaix but I'm open to endurance bikes. Hopefully the shop fitting me has some in my size.


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## jetdog9 (Jul 12, 2007)

Going back to the original 2 bikes, I think the Cannondale is a bit overpriced for its age. The Scott's price seems good, shifting issue is *probably* minor adjustment thing.

Note that if you want an endurance frame for new bike (such as a 2016 Solace 20), for some brands you're forced onto disc brakes now. So if you want an endurance frame and you're anti-disc, that Solace 20 might be the ticket.

I have multiple friends/family on CAAD10/CAAD12 now that are very happy with their rides. I love my Scott, but it's an Addict, not a Solace. Good luck in your search... during right part of the season you should be able to get a new bike at a dealer with full Ultegra for under $2000. For instance, a friend got a 2015 CAAD10 Ultegra for ~$1700 around last October.


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## Verticle (Jun 11, 2016)

The Scott is now gone so scratch that. I just test rode a 2015 Synapse with rim brakes and it felt good. The handlebars seemed larger than the Diverge and others, not sure how I feel about that. Maybe I should hold off on a new bike until newer models come out and keep an eye out for a great deal used. 

I would still like to ride the '16 CAAD12 in a 58 to see how it feels.


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## PJ352 (Dec 5, 2007)

Verticle said:


> I called one shop and the guy told me he could set me up on a trainer to get me started. I'll be heading there today or tomorrow to see if the 58 is indeed my size. They do more thorough sizing as well.


This sounds promising. If the shop is indeed reputable, I think you'll be surprised at just how seamless the bike buying process can be. You won't feel like you're doing all the work, because you'll trust them to do their job and size/ fit you correctly.

Good luck. Let us know how it goes.


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## Verticle (Jun 11, 2016)

PJ352 said:


> This sounds promising. If the shop is indeed reputable, I think you'll be surprised at just how seamless the bike buying process can be. You won't feel like you're doing all the work, because you'll trust them to do their job and size/ fit you correctly.
> 
> Good luck. Let us know how it goes.


The guy at this shop had me stand over a couple bikes and lift up on the handlebars to check clearance. He then took hold of the bars and had me peddle backwards before concluding that a 58 would be best. 

I now see a grn/black 2015 Synapse carbon 105 being sold for $1900. States "brand new, only touched the road a handful of times". I told the seller bicycle blue book says $1292-$1329 for like new condition and they said they might budge a little. Would $1400 be a fair offer?


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## Oh My Sack! (Apr 11, 2016)

SWEET Bike! I think your offer is a fair start if it's apparent that mileage is low. I know my local shop (Art's Cyclery) has the 2016's left and at $2100, those will be getting discounted locally so I think his $1900 is high. Worst he can say is no and you can possibly scoop a discounted 2016.


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## PJ352 (Dec 5, 2007)

Verticle said:


> The guy at this shop had me stand over a couple bikes and lift up on the handlebars to check clearance. He then took hold of the bars and had me peddle backwards before concluding that a 58 would be best.


Standover is pretty much meaningless in regards to assessing fit requirements.. as is the pedaling backwards. 

A shop worth it's salt is going to put you on a trainer and do an initial fit (probably about 45 minutes, total), send you off on a test ride, get your input on fit and feel and tweak from there. 

I really don't think you've found a decent shop, yet. 



Verticle said:


> I now see a grn/black 2015 Synapse carbon 105 being sold for $1900. States "brand new, only touched the road a handful of times". I told the seller bicycle blue book says $1292-$1329 for like new condition and they said they might budge a little. Would $1400 be a fair offer?


I'm assuming this is a 58 CM. I'd feel a lot better advising you on the bike if your sizing requirements were pinned down, but I don't think they are. 

How much would the current model cost new? Once you determine that, guesstimate what the loss of a warranty and other LBS services are worth and see if it gets you in the $1300-$1400 ballpark.


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## Verticle (Jun 11, 2016)

Oh My Sack! said:


> SWEET Bike! I think your offer is a fair start if it's apparent that mileage is low. I know my local shop (Art's Cyclery) has the 2016's left and at $2100, those will be getting discounted locally so I think his $1900 is high. Worst he can say is no and you can possibly scoop a discounted 2016.


Learning that new models will be out soon, I am tempted to wait for a better deal. I have to control the excitement of getting out there. I'll see how far this person is willing to stray from $1900.



PJ352 said:


> Standover is pretty much meaningless in regards to assessing fit requirements.. as is the pedaling backwards.
> 
> A shop worth it's salt is going to put you on a trainer and do an initial fit (probably about 45 minutes, total), send you off on a test ride, get your input on fit and feel and tweak from there.
> 
> I really don't think you've found a decent shop, yet.


I'm willing to pay for a proper fit if I can find the right place, I see I have more work to do in this regard.

How much do you think a 2016 model might be discounted once 2017's roll out?


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## Lombard (May 8, 2014)

Verticle said:


> I called one shop and the guy told me he could set me up on a trainer to get me started. I'll be heading there today or tomorrow to see if the 58 is indeed my size. They do more thorough sizing as well.


Sounds good! I think you may have found your shop!



PJ352 said:


> Standover is pretty much meaningless in regards to assessing fit requirements.. as is the pedaling backwards.
> 
> A shop worth it's salt is going to put you on a trainer and do an initial fit (probably about 45 minutes, total), send you off on a test ride, get your input on fit and feel and tweak from there.
> 
> I really don't think you've found a decent shop, yet.


Or maybe not.



PJ352 said:


> How much would the current model cost new? Once you determine that, guesstimate what the loss of a warranty and other LBS services are worth and see if it gets you in the $1300-$1400 ballpark.


My opinion is there would have to be a substantial discount in order to buy private. At a bike shop, you will not only get a warranty, but usually you will get free adjustments for life. With a private sale, it is assumed an as-is sale, no revolving door, never look back.


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## PJ352 (Dec 5, 2007)

Verticle said:


> I'm willing to pay for a proper fit if I can find the right place, I see I have more work to do in this regard.


Finding the right shop, yes, sizing yourself, no.

Reputable shops do their job and size/ fit you to a bike, then send you off on a test ride - out on the roads. Your part is to provide feedback on fit/ feel, leaving it to them to know how to dial fit in. 



Verticle said:


> How much do you think a 2016 model might be discounted once 2017's roll out?


Highly dependent on the shop, their profit margins/ overhead. From what you've offered, shops in your area are willing to deal "some". 

My guess is you'd be looking at between a low of 10% discount to a high of 25% (usually clearance).

On the waiting or buying now quandary, I think you have to decide what it's worth to get out on the road sooner versus later. 

Businesses need to make a profit on their products, so the cost difference may not be great. And (as you've seen) you run the risk of limited model/ size availability.


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## jetdog9 (Jul 12, 2007)

Real clearance sales due to next model year coming out may not start for a while, at least not the *really* good deals. Somebody that knows the retail calendars better than me can correct me if wrong.

That said, if you wait too long, prime riding season has come and gone so you may want to figure that in as well. Is it worth a couple hundred bucks to have the bike all summer long?


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## Lombard (May 8, 2014)

jetdog9 said:


> That said, if you wait too long, prime riding season has come and gone so you may want to figure that in as well. Is it worth a couple hundred bucks to have the bike all summer long?


I think the more important question is: Is it worth losing a couple months of riding in order to get the bike that is right for you?

I would say the answer to that is: Yes.


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## Verticle (Jun 11, 2016)

I called numerous shops today and only a couple talked about an in depth fitting, taking around an hour. They seem to separate sizing and fittings which I wasn't aware of. They ask your height or maybe take measurement themselves, then determine frame size. After purchasing a bike, they then begin the fitting process. If you already own a bike you can pay for a fitting assuming one owns the correct size bike. I'm in the NYC area so if anyone knows of a good place to go, please share. 

The Solace 20 I rode and really liked is still available, the guys ad expired and was just put back up. The bike was so light, under 17lbs if I remember correctly. He was asking $1600 but would take $1400. I'm thinking of offering $1300 since he'll probably know I'm serious and there was that issue with the little cog not engaging (hopefully just an adjustment).

I feel the internet is a blessing and a curse at times, because I could research bikes all day and wind up never getting one. I'd like to test the 2016 Synapse carbon 105 but I can't find one. Does anyone spend most of their time in the saddle of a race bike, when not actually racing? I'm thinking either Solace or CAAD12 at this point.


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## Verticle (Jun 11, 2016)

I may be jumping ahead of myself here, but how upgradeable is the Solace?


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## jetdog9 (Jul 12, 2007)

Perfectly upgradeable. Nothing really special about it component-wise, even that rear brake has Ultegra/Dura-Ace versions I believe.

If it already has 105 that's plenty good, and upping to Ultegra and/or Dura-Ace will look cool but not necessarily increase performance a ton.

You may want to get new wheels as a first upgrade, but the ones it has are probably not bad.

Edit: Looks like that model year the Solace 20 is Ultegra, you're getting a good deal already at $1400 IMO. Maybe the back brake is 105 but shouldn't be a big deal. And if the wheels are Syncros-branded, they are actually pretty decent OEM wheels that are really DT Swiss. They should be fine for quite some time before you go crazy and want better...


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## Verticle (Jun 11, 2016)

jetdog9 said:


> Perfectly upgradeable. Nothing really special about it component-wise, even that rear brake has Ultegra/Dura-Ace versions I believe.
> 
> If it already has 105 that's plenty good, and upping to Ultegra and/or Dura-Ace will look cool but not necessarily increase performance a ton.
> 
> ...


Yup, it has the Ultegra groupset. I'm going to move forward on it and take things from there, he said that rear cog just needed adjustment and is now working fine, he's staying firm at $1400. 

Much appreciated.


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## PJ352 (Dec 5, 2007)

Verticle said:


> I called numerous shops today and only a couple talked about an in depth fitting, taking around an hour. They seem to separate sizing and fittings which I wasn't aware of. They ask your height or maybe take measurement themselves, then determine frame size. After purchasing a bike, they then begin the fitting process. If you already own a bike you can pay for a fitting assuming one owns the correct size bike. I'm in the NYC area so if anyone knows of a good place to go, please share.


A standard fitting (that I detailed earlier) is what most reputable shops include with a bike purchase and it takes about 45 minutes. 

That aside, what you've outlined above doesn't really stray from what we've been discussing. First comes sizing, then comes the fitting. If sizing is off (depending on by how much) the fitting involves compromises (versus tweaks - small adjustments to dial in fit). 

No shop is going to spend 45 +/- minutes doing a fitting for you to test ride a bike, then (maybe) walk away from a purchase. They'll take some time to adjust the saddle, see that you're relatively comfortable, and send you on your way. At that point, you've been sized for that model bike. 



Verticle said:


> The Solace 20 I rode and really liked is still available, the guys ad expired and was just put back up. The bike was so light, under 17lbs if I remember correctly. He was asking $1600 but would take $1400. I'm thinking of offering $1300 since he'll probably know I'm serious and there was that issue with the little cog not engaging (hopefully just an adjustment).


This may well be the bike for you, but I'd still ask that a LBS check it over and provide a fit assessment. I believe the frame is carbon, and you'll have no warranty. 



Verticle said:


> I feel the internet is a blessing and a curse at times, because I could research bikes all day and wind up never getting one. I'd like to test the 2016 Synapse carbon 105 but I can't find one. Does anyone spend most of their time in the saddle of a race bike, when not actually racing? I'm thinking either Solace or CAAD12 at this point.


I spent the better part of 2 years (re)searching for my 'next' bike, so I feel your pain. But what helped most was stepping away from the computer and actually getting out test riding bikes. From there, it was quite easy to whittle the field. 

I honestly think folks take the wrong approach to bike buying. When I'm out riding, I don't care about what level components I have, frame material, etc. What I care about is that I'm comfortable on the bike, it shifts, stops and steers without issue. We all want value for our money, but there's value in something that just works... at all levels.

Re: your "who rides race bike" question, for one, I do. Have for all of the past 30+ years of road riding. I don't race and never did, but I like the way slightly more aggressive geo handles out on the road. Some call it twitchy, I call it lively. I've ridden the so called endurance bikes, but they felt plain vanilla to me. 

That said, we're all different. So far be it from me to tell you what you're going to like. The only way you're going to know that is to test ride a bunch of bikes... both race and endurance.


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## jetdog9 (Jul 12, 2007)

If you get it, post pictures! If you get anything, post pictures!


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## Verticle (Jun 11, 2016)

Ok guys, I picked up the Solace 20 a couple days ago and so far I'm very happy with my decision. The rear derailleur wasn't changing to the little cog so I watched a few videos and now the shifts are buttery smooth. I adjusted the front as well due a bit of noise when on the big ring. Me and my 5yr old daughter have been out twice so far and the amount of fun we had was incredible, I almost forgot how much you get to see when not traveling by car. 

So far I've purchased a floor pump with gauge, water bottle cage, rear seat post light and spare tubes. I'm looking for a helmet and saddle bag but I'm not sure about ordering these online. 

I'll take some photos after work today.


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## Lombard (May 8, 2014)

Verticle said:


> So far I've purchased a floor pump with gauge, water bottle cage........


For rides of any length, you will want at least two bottle cages.



Verticle said:


> , rear seat post light and spare tubes. I'm looking for a helmet........


Please do not tell me that you and your daughter have been riding without a helmet. :nono: Please do not ride again until you both get a helmet!
[/QUOTE]


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## Migen21 (Oct 28, 2014)

Congratulations on the purchase. Have a good ride.

Since it sounds like you are doing you own adjustments, be *very* sure the front and rear derailleur limit screws are set properly (there are tons of tutorials online for this). Dropping a chain into the spokes can trash a wheel, and dropping a chain in between the crank and the frame can trash your frame too. 

If the bike doesn't have one integrated, you might consider an after market chain catcher solution like a k-Edge or similar, just as some inexpensive insurance.


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## PJ352 (Dec 5, 2007)

Congrats on the new (to you) bike! Wishing you many happy (and safe) miles...

On that note, I agree with Lombard. No helmet, no ride. It's best to try before you buy with these type of accessories, but it's pretty easy to measure for fit. 

From the REI website:
"To find your size, wrap a flexible tape measure around the largest portion of your head—about 1 in. above your eyebrows. Or, wrap a string or ribbon around your head, then measure the length of string with a straight-edge ruler or yardstick..."

All helmets meet the same safety standards, so buy based on fit, comfort, retention system, ventilation...

RE: saddle bags, type and size depend on what you consider essentials for the rides you'll be doing. Generally speaking, the further you ride, the more you'll need.

My essentials list:
Wedge saddle bag - medium (Topeak/ Specialized are two good brands)
Tire levers
Spare tube
Patch kit
Piece of old tube or 1$ bill to use as a 'boot'
Innovations Ultraflate Plus CO2 inflator
2-3 12-16g unthreaded carts (I get the 12g's by the box at Walmart)
Multitool w/ chain breaker
Mini-pump (if you don't trust CO2 alone)

Not essential, but nice to have:
Road ID
Rag/ paper towels
Latex gloves
Waterless soap (Gojo, or similar)
A second tube, if it'll fit

Optional:
Mini-pump
Lights

I would strongly recommend a Road ID bracelet. Their basic model (Wrist ID Sport) will do. Also, a floor pump, but keep that home. ; )

EDIT: Two more things. 1) A computer with cadence function. Wired or wireless, depending on preferences/ budget. FWIW, I like Cateyes. 2) Camelbak Podium insulated bottles. I think there's both a chill and big version.


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## Lombard (May 8, 2014)

Migen21 said:


> Dropping a chain into the spokes can trash a wheel, and dropping a chain in between the crank and the frame can trash your frame too.


It can also cause an accident and trash YOU.


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## Lombard (May 8, 2014)

PJ352 said:


> Congrats on the new (to you) bike! Wishing you many happy (and safe) miles...
> 
> On that note, I agree with Lombard. No helmet, no ride. It's best to try before you buy with these type of accessories, but it's pretty easy to measure for fit.
> 
> ...


Good list PJ352!



> You must spread some Reputation around before giving it to PJ352 again.


And congrats Verticle! Enjoy your new bike and ride safe!


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## Verticle (Jun 11, 2016)

I really appreciate the kind words and advice guys, thanks.


PJ352 said:


> RE: saddle bags, type and size depend on what you consider essentials for the rides you'll be doing. Generally speaking, the further you ride, the more you'll need. My essentials list: Wedge saddle bag - medium (Topeak/ Specialized are two good brands) Tire levers Spare tube Patch kit Piece of old tube or 1$ bill to use as a 'boot' Innovations Ultraflate Plus CO2 inflator 2-3 12-16g unthreaded carts (I get the 12g's by the box at Walmart) Multitool w/ chain breaker Mini-pump (if you don't trust CO2 alone) Not essential, but nice to have: Road ID Rag/ paper towels Latex gloves Waterless soap (Gojo, or similar) A second tube, if it'll fit Optional: Mini-pump Lights I would strongly recommend a Road ID bracelet. Their basic model (Wrist ID Sport) will do. Also, a floor pump, but keep that home. ; ) EDIT: Two more things. 1) A computer with cadence function. Wired or wireless, depending on preferences/ budget. FWIW, I like Cateyes. 2) Camelbak Podium insulated bottles. I think there's both a chill and big version.


 I was actually considering the Topeak wedge saddle bag but was unsure of which size to get, micro or med. Are you able to fit most of your list in the bag, including mini pump?


Lombard said:


> Please do not tell me that you and your daughter have been riding without a helmet. :nono: Please do not ride again until you both get a helmet!


Only I have gone out without a helmet, my daughter has a helmet etc. I plan to try some in stores rather than just buying online.


Migen21 said:


> Congratulations on the purchase. Have a good ride. Since it sounds like you are doing you own adjustments, be *very* sure the front and rear derailleur limit screws are set properly (there are tons of tutorials online for this). Dropping a chain into the spokes can trash a wheel, and dropping a chain in between the crank and the frame can trash your frame too. If the bike doesn't have one integrated, you might consider an after market chain catcher solution like a k-Edge or similar, just as some inexpensive insurance.


 My bike has no chain catcher so I'll look into one for sure, looks like they can really save the day.


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## Lombard (May 8, 2014)

Verticle said:


> Only I have gone out without a helmet, my daughter has a helmet etc. I plan to try some in stores rather than just buying online.


Good idea. While all helmets will protect you equally, they won't all fit you equally. Many are sized either Small/Med or Med/Large, but are not consistent from brand to brand. Comfort within your own size also varies. Bottom line, try them on.



Verticle said:


> My bike has no chain catcher so I'll look into one for sure, looks like they can really save the day.


I think you may be confusing the issue Migen21 is talking about with a dropped chain in the front. This will not help the issue of shifting over into the spokes or the dropouts on the cassette. This will only help the occasional chain drop in the front as you shift to a smaller ring - an inconvenience for sure, but not a catastrophic situation unless you are downshifting while mashing the pedals out of the saddle.


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## PJ352 (Dec 5, 2007)

Verticle said:


> I was actually considering the Topeak wedge saddle bag but was unsure of which size to get, micro or med. Are you able to fit most of your list in the bag, including mini pump?


If you want to include most of my essentials list, you'll need a medium sized saddle bag. Mini-pumps generally attach to bottle cages (or similar). Some riders put them in jersey pockets, but I would not advise doing so. 

This is my current bag. Marketed as a large, but fits neatly under my Spec Toupe saddle. 

Nashbar Large Wedge Saddle Bag



Verticle said:


> Only I have gone out without a helmet, my daughter has a helmet etc. I plan to try some in stores rather than just buying online.


Good plan. Please do so ASAP. 



Verticle said:


> My bike has no chain catcher so I'll look into one for sure, looks like they can really save the day.


I agree with Lombard on this. Keep your front and rear derailleurs in tune and you'll do fine.


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