# Difference between Ultegra 6700 and DuraAce 7900 shifters?



## roadworthy

Can anybody define the difference between subject shifters? Is there reason to believe the internals are not 'identical'? Reason I ask is because cable pull ratios is the same between the two...and reviews I have read state that shifting differences are imperceptible.

So...is the difference...purely aesthetic and is there a definable reason why to choose DuraAce shifters with ~$100 penalty? Is a handful of gram weight the only difference?...are hoods more comfortable aka boot material a softer durometer etc?...any reason?

thanks


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## eschummer

Roadworthy, I have both. An Ultegra set on my Spesh Roubaix Expert, and a DA set on my recently completed BH G5. I have about 2600 miles on the Roubaix and about 500 km on the G5. I'd say the differences are within the tolerances imposed by set-up variations, i.e. slightly more cable friction due to different cable runs on one vs. the other, in-line adjusters on one, not on the other, etc. If I tweak both of them for optimum shift performance I really can't tell the difference on any "normal" ride. 

I guess I just talked myself into believing that this is really more of an apples to oranges comparison, and the only real test would be to have two otherwise identical bikes. I'm getting ready to redo the cabling on the Roubaix this weekend, and will perhaps have a better comparison after that (eliminating funny double crosses, getting rid of in-line adjusters, new cable set-up in general, etc.). But if anything, this will make them seem even closer in performance. 

All very subjective at this point. Another (still subjective) data point is that my son's CAAD 10 has a 105 set-up that is smooth as butter....

Oh well, so much for "scientific" comparisons.....


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## eschummer

I guess I didn't address the last part of your question. I have the shifters on identical FSA Omega bars on both bikes and the "feel" of the hoods when riding is so close that I at least can not tell the difference. I almost always ride with gloves however, and that may limit my perception....


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## Squrkey

I have both, on different bikes, I prefer the feel of the Ultegra shifters, they just seem to provide a smoother and a more definitive shift. Perhaps when by giving up weight with the DuraAce it sacrifices a little feel. 

I do not notice any difference in the hoods.


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## roadworthy

Thanks so much you guys.
I did a bit of digging to try to determine if there were any technical difference. What I found on Competitive Cyclist's site...was the DA 7900 shifting was touted as NO trimming of the front derailleur. That is the only technical difference I could find. This to me matters if true. Somehow DA is configured such that you don't have to trim the front derailleur at all. Not sure how this is accomplished...if the DA front derailleur cage is wider...how the cable pull of the left shifter is configured such that you don't have trim with DA to prevent FD cage rattle. Apparently Ultegra 6700 requires trimming the front derailleur when you run cross chaining in the small front ring when traversing the entire cassette from biggest to smallest cog...as is the case with my Campy driveline.

Have you guys noticed any trimming difference between Ultegra and DA? Can you confirm this difference in trim?
thanks

PS: Edit...am adding a pic and description of the DA front derailleur. I have read conflicting accounts that the desciption of trim is a misnomer of sorts...that only the big ring is not trim-able...small ring requires trimming to prevent cage rattle when traversing the cassette in back. Don't know what to believe and maybe you guys could weigh in with your experience...any cage rattle without trimming on both small and big ring?


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## Squrkey

Yes there is that difference. I have found that the trim feature is something I have gotten used to so I do not really notice it. The DuraAce moves the derailluer far enough from the chain that it dos'nt make noise, but I preferred the distance that the trim feature provided. I don't think the trimless feature in the DuraAce moves the derairailuer far enough away.


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## roadworthy

Squrkey said:


> Yes there is that difference. I have found that the trim feature is something I have gotten used to so I do not really notice it. The DuraAce moves the derailluer far enough from the chain that it dos'nt make noise, but I preferred the distance that the trim feature provided. I don't think the trimless feature in the DuraAce moves the derairailuer far enough away.


Thanks for your comments. Examining your comments a bit...you state the derailleur moves far enough with DA to not make noise...but you don't believe the derailleur moves far enough. Isn't the objective with trim to move the cage far enough to not make noise? i.e. if the cage doesn't rattle then the cage has moved far enough when cross chaining? Could you please explain what you mean?
Many thanks.


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## Squrkey

After reading your post again I checked my bike and it seems that the DuraAce, when properly adjusted really does allow for silent extreme X chaining. Sometimes I think I can hear/feel a little drag but when I look at the chain it is clearing the cage.


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## roadworthy

Squrkey said:


> After reading your post again I checked my bike and it seems that the DuraAce, when properly adjusted really does allow for silent extreme X chaining. Sometimes I think I can hear/feel a little drag but when I look at the chain it is clearing the cage.


Digging around the web the difference between 6700 and 7900 front derailleur trimming is subtle. Best I can surmise:

Ultegra 6700 left shifter has 4 clicks. It is designed to trim both the big and small front ring. Word is however the redesign of 6700 however doesn't require much trimming on either ring.

DuraAce 7900 left shifter has 3 clicks. Some controversy as to whether any trimming on either big or small ring is necessary. Some speculation suggests that the 2nd click is to trim for the small ring in the smallest cogs and other accounts suggest that the DA front derailleur with DA 7900 requires no trimming on either ring.

So the difference it seems is slight. 6700 doesn't require much trimming and DA7900 doesn't require any trimming or minor tuning when traversing the cassette in the small ring.

So above may explain why there isn't a definitive difference noted by owners of both.

I am trying to decide whether I should spend the extra dough for DA is the purpose of my inquiry.
thanks guys.


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## Squrkey

... looking at my bike again... the DuraAce does have trim for the small ring. 

It seems that when it is adjusted correctly no trim is needed for cross-chaining while on the large ring.

On the DuraAce there are 3 positions, only 2 clicks.

When the chain is dropped down on the small ring, the derailleur is in the far left position (Closest to the frame) 

One click moves the derailluer to the right, enough to clear the chain if you were on the small cog (cross-chaining).

One more click moves the derailluer to the right so that the chain is lifted onto the big chain-ring.

I can not confirm that the Ultegra has 4 positions (3 clicks). I can check when I get home. From memory I am quite sure this is true.


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## roadworthy

Squrkey said:


> ... looking at my bike again... the DuraAce does have trim for the small ring.
> 
> It seems that when it is adjusted correctly no trim is needed for cross-chaining while on the large ring.
> 
> On the DuraAce there are 3 positions, only 2 clicks.
> 
> When the chain is dropped down on the small ring, the derailleur is in the far left position (Closest to the frame)
> 
> One click moves the derailluer to the right, enough to clear the chain if you were on the small cog (cross-chaining).
> 
> One more click moves the derailluer to the right so that the chain is lifted onto the big chain-ring.
> 
> I can not confirm that the Ultegra has 4 positions (3 clicks). I can check when I get home. From memory I am quite sure this is true.


Thanks a lot Squrkey..
I may have mistaken clicks for no. of positions in my desciption. What you write makes more sense....2 clicks/3 positions for DA7900 and likely 3 clicks/4 positions for Ultegra6700 front derailleur.

Middle position for DA is to trim the small ring if needed...no need to trim the big ring.
(in general most groupps are more forgiving in the big ring in my experience)
Ultegra has two positions in the middle to trim either small or big ring....though word is, Ultegra doesn't need much of any trimming on the big ring and very little on the small ring. I wonder just how different the front derailleurs really are?...if the cages are basically the same dimensions?

A basic question all said, based upon your ridng experience of owning both...

Is DA7900 worth the extra cost?

Thanks


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## ukbloke

roadworthy said:


> Is DA7900 worth the extra cost?


Maybe DA7900 components will be significantly discounted when the new 11-speed DA becomes available.


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## roadworthy

ukbloke said:


> Maybe DA7900 components will be significantly discounted when the new 11-speed DA becomes available.


Not sure this will be the case as the 11 speed DA will be by comparison quite expensive toe begin with and Shimano's Di2 has changed the pricing landscape for mechanical DA and Ultegra...many are switching over to electric shifting lowering demand for higher price DA making DA pretty readily available on ebay. I also consider mixing and matching which I have done with Campy for years. Ultegra 6700 and DA7900 are pretty cross compatible...same derailleur pull ratios etc. I may do something like...DA 7900 shifters with 6700-A Ultegra rear derailleur...Ultegra brakes but...may opt for DA front derailleur to take advantage of limited trim feature...presuming there is a geometry difference in either the pull ratio of the DA front derailleur or cage width to work for reduced no. of clicks of the DA 7900 left shifter. This will likely be my winter project...replace Campy with Shimano...and likely go with 11-28t rear cassette.
Cheers.


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## stowellt

My new Motobecane Ti with DA is setup the same. My question and the reason I found this thread is it considered set up properly? Seems odd that for something that is supposed to be trim-less to have a trim position. 



Squrkey said:


> On the DuraAce there are 3 positions, only 2 clicks.
> 
> When the chain is dropped down on the small ring, the derailleur is in the far left position (Closest to the frame)
> 
> One click moves the derailluer to the right, enough to clear the chain if you were on the small cog (cross-chaining).
> 
> One more click moves the derailluer to the right so that the chain is lifted onto the big chain-ring.


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## RonnyTCR

*Using 7900 groupset with 6700 shifter?*

I was looking to upgrade my DA 7800 groupset cause my rear derailleur cable bolt stripped the hole. I already have 7900 crank,cassette and needed to change rear derailleur,front derailleur and shifter. I didnt want to spend $350 for DA shifter and wanted to go with less cheaper Ultegra 6700 but didnt know it its going to work with my DA 7900 groupset. Look everywhere and Ultegra 6700 is about 50 dollar less then DA so I just got the DA instead. If I know that DA 7900 wasnt that much different in performance then my DA 7800, I would just replace 7800 derailleur. The only thing I didnt like about the DA 7800 shifter was that the shift cable come out from the side instead hided like the newer model. Sorry to be off topic but after reading your post here it help me a lot about which shifter to buy and answered my question if 6700 shift can be use with DA 7900 groupset.


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## roadworthy

RonnyTCR said:


> I was looking to upgrade my DA 7800 groupset cause my rear derailleur cable bolt stripped the hole. I already have 7900 crank,cassette and needed to change rear derailleur,front derailleur and shifter. I didnt want to spend $350 for DA shifter and wanted to go with less cheaper Ultegra 6700 but didnt know it its going to work with my DA 7900 groupset. Look everywhere and Ultegra 6700 is about 50 dollar less then DA so I just got the DA instead. If I know that DA 7900 wasnt that much different in performance then my DA 7800, I would just replace 7800 derailleur. The only thing I didnt like about the DA 7800 shifter was that the shift cable come out from the side instead hided like the newer model. Sorry to be off topic but after reading your post here it help me a lot about which shifter to buy and answered my question if 6700 shift can be use with DA 7900 groupset.


Ronny, a 6700 Ultegra shifter will shift a DA 7900 groupset....same shifter pull ratio.
But here is the thing. There is no reason to get rid of a 7800 rear derailleur because of a stripped hole. A simple redrill of that hole, and retap, one size up allen screw and you are good. Truth is, 7800 shifts better than either 6700 or 7900which was Shimano's first effort to route the cable under the handlebar tape.
I will tell you that many prefer 7800 to either 6700 or 7900.
That said, if you feel the itch for a change...and I mean a very worthwhile change, then go with new Ultegra 6800. New 6800 and DA9000 are two of the best groupsets available. Only issue if you go to the new Shimano 11s groupsets is...you will need to change your rear wheel because you need a new wider freehub for 11 speeds.

I say, fix your 7800 or go with new 6800. I personally believe 6700/7900 have poor shift quality and poor ergonomics.


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## RonnyTCR

A lot of people told me that too. thank you. I will try to retap the hole. I had my 7800 for 5 years now and NEVER gave me problem and the shifting is so good and quite. I will look in to the new 6800/9000. How about the 6700 Di2? I saw a groupset on sale for $500 shifter,rear and front derailleur,cable? And then thinking about it again. Im not a pro so that 7800 groupset were still good for me. Hope I can fix it.


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## roadworthy

RonnyTCR said:


> A lot of people told me that too. thank you. I will try to retap the hole. I had my 7800 for 5 years now and NEVER gave me problem and the shifting is so good and quite. I will look in to the new 6800/9000. How about the 6700 Di2? I saw a groupset on sale for $500 shifter,rear and front derailleur,cable? And then thinking about it again. Im not a pro so that 7800 groupset were still good for me. Hope I can fix it.


If you opt for a completely new groupset like Di2, I suggest you go with the latest version and go 11s.

Many absolutely love Di2 but the economics are more expensive than mechanical groupsets...for the same level of components.

Most of us ride our bikes with a budget in mind. I say if your DA7800 is in overall good condition, then for 5 bucks fix the rear derailleur and enjoy it. DA 7800 shifts very sweetly and why so many were disappointed with DA7900 including me.


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## RonnyTCR

roadworthy said:


> If you opt for a completely new groupset like Di2, I suggest you go with the latest version and go 11s.
> 
> Many absolutely love Di2 but the economics are more expensive than mechanical groupsets...for the same level of components.
> 
> Most of us ride our bikes with a budget in mind. I say if your DA7800 is in overall good condition, then for 5 bucks fix the rear derailleur and enjoy it. DA 7800 shifts very sweetly and why so many were disappointed with DA7900 including me.


In that case, can I use the DA 7800 shifter with the DA 7900 groupset? I know according to Shimano they said it cant be use but I havent try it. Im just curious.  I dont know if anyone have try it.


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## roadworthy

RonnyTCR said:


> In that case, can I use the DA 7800 shifter with the DA 7900 groupset? I know according to Shimano they said it cant be use but I havent try it. Im just curious.  I dont know if anyone have try it.


Yes, DA7800 will shift DA7900 front and back derailleurs just fine.


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## RonnyTCR

roadworthy said:


> Yes, DA7800 will shift DA7900 front and back derailleurs just fine.


alright THANK YOU THANK YOU. I will install it tonight. I'll let you know how its goes.


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