# CX bike - Felt, Specialized, Jamis, Raleigh, Lemond, Fuji?



## eman2 (Apr 3, 2006)

Looking at CX bikes. I have briefly test rode a Spec. Tri-cross sport (on the singletrack and double track) and a Felt F1X parking lot test. I plan to use the bike for road, dirt road, double track and maybe a litte singletrack. The more I look there seem to be a lot of choices and a variety of frame materials being used. Felt and Specialized are Aluminum, lemond is steel, jamis has a steel model, raleigh is aluminum. 

I would like a bike that is not going to beat me up in the rear. The Specialized tri-cross comp has carbon rear stays with zertz inserts and I am wondering if that helps to reduce the impact harshness. 

I guess I am stuggling with the frame/components for the price. I can score a 06' Felt F1x for about $1150 out the door and I am concerned about the compliancy of the frame. The rest of the bike spec is great - full Ultegra. A Tri-cross Comp with the carbon rear end goes for $1800 and has a lesser spec than the Felt. Would a carbon seat post help at all with reducing impact harshness and vibrations?

If anyone has ridden the felt, spec. with carbon rear, lemond steel, cannondale etc, could you comment on the frame ride.

Thanks for any help.
Ed


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## CrossWorkOrange (Oct 16, 2006)

I picked up an 06 Felt F1X for $1100 a couple of weeks ago. So far so good. I've been riding around on makeshift cross courses and an apple orchard where i mountain bike. No complaints, it's a pretty good deal for the Ultegra IMO. Similarly priced cross bikes usually were a 105 in my experiences.


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## The Wrench (Oct 20, 2006)

I'm partial to aluminum. I'm also partial to the Felt. That's a great price for the F1X. I have been trying to ride the Raleigh, but none of my local dealers has one in stock. If you are considering steel, also give Surly's Cross Check a look. Otherwise, if you've ridden the Felt vs. the TriCross, did the TriCross feel $650 better?


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## johnmyster (Mar 13, 2003)

I have a 2006 Felt CX1. I spend 5 hours a week on it currently. I also have a Specialized Roubaix with the carbo-zertz rear end. Average of 200 miles a week thus far this year.

This is my short take on the situation: 32mm cross tires at 55 psi take out way more of the bumps than the carbo-zertz nonsense could ever hope to.

Unless you're planning on using it as a long-mileage road bike with 23 or 25mm road tires, don't worry about frame hizzy-harshness. Get the Felt. It's a rockin deal for ultegra 10, carbon fork, decent stem, bars, post, etc. However, you may want to think about the fact that the wheels probably won't last forever, and you may not like the brakes or the seat - but the same would apply to the specialized anyhow. Otherwise, pretty good parts with the truvativ cranks and whatnot.


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## cblic (Aug 25, 2006)

Check out the New Jamis SuperNova. It's the best bike for the price; Ultegra, Aluminum with carbon stays and fork $1200.


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## crossdude (Jan 28, 2005)

Hey Ed 
I got a Specialized Tricross expert double this year and it just ROCKS! 
I was on an all Alum and really trashing me (I’m 48) so I was looking for a bike with a carbon fork and seat stays and the tricross expert really fit the bill. I have raced it 4 times and it’s a fantastic bike I love it. 
The carbon fork and seat stays do a fantastic job and the Zert’s really do work. 
With my American Classic race wheel my bike came in about 19-19 ½ lbs’s and that’s for a 58cm frame. 
I can highly recommend the Tricross expert double, it’s $2200 but well worth is for the parts package. 
Dan…
Here it is in action last weekend, Cross Crusade #3 
http://oregonvelo.exposuremanager.com/p/cchh0603/img_7559114


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## eman2 (Apr 3, 2006)

Thanks for all the replies so far. 

I rode an 07' Lemond Poprad last night and I really liked the ride of the steel frame - unfortunately I don't care for the disk brake only option on the bike. Bike was priced at $1500. I dig the red metallic paint for 07'. I am going to try to search out an 06' -- only problem is that it came with an aluminum fork that I would want to swap out for carbon.

The specialized dealer has a tricross comp coming in -- I hope to try that out and see how it rides. I just really don't want to spend $1800 and get a lesser parts spec than the Felt.

I would like to ride a Jamis, but will have to search out a dealer. The supernova spoke of above goes for around $1900 -- now if it was $1300 as mentioned about I would be all over it, the regular Nova with a lesser spec. goes for around $1300.

I plan to ride the Felt again this week -- a more extended ride than just parking lot test. I hope to get a better feel for the frame comfort. I wonder how much a carbon seatpost will help with the harshness of the alumium. Its just tough to beat the parts spec on this bike!

In regards to frame sizing and fit -- the felt and lemond seem much more traditional than the Specialized. The lemond and felt needed little seatpost exposed with more of horizantal top tube. The specialized was more of the sloping top tube.

more comments are welcome.


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## g-Bike (Jan 25, 2006)

Remember sometimes sloping top tubes are harder to shoulder the bike than traditional. Also with a cross bike you would not be running too high of tire pressure so the "beating you up" sensation should be be there. I have a ti cross frame and love it, at first many people (Al riders) dogged it but now they think a little different after hard bumpy races. Enjoy and with any bike this most likely will not be your last. The important thing is fit and get out there riding ASAP. So many people spend day after day searching for the "right bike" and they waste so much time that could be spent enjoying riding. Be well and good luck.


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## CC09 (Mar 11, 2006)

i cant speak for a stock fuji, but i just built up an 03 fuji cross from my road bike and other scavanged parts and it is a really sweet bike. i really like the handling and it fits me well. i dont know what fuji specs them out with, but i put mine together with mostly ritchey wcs and 105 stuff (see cross gallery for full spec). if you can id reccomend giving one a shot.

as for comfort, im riding it around on 40psi......getting beat up....no way. its alu w/ carbon fork and i currently have an alu seatpost on it.


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## xccx (Aug 5, 2005)

i have a pair of felt F1X'z and love 'em. i even love the saddle. i hate the brakes but they work fine and are easy to maintain. (i just hate-em cuz they are a bit corny).


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## bikebob (Jul 16, 2004)

I have a 2003 Fuji Cross. Other than upgrading to 9 speed Ultegra and a Ritchey WCS Classic bar, it's stock. I've been pretty happy with it other than it being a little harsh. this is only an issue when riding rough paved roads, though.
You will probably get a better deal if you can wait 'til late winter/spring
Good luck


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## eman2 (Apr 3, 2006)

*An update to cx bike progress*

Well I have done a few more test rides. Rode the Felt F1X again, this time the 57 cm felt more comfortable -- I was too stretched out on the 59cm. Then I found a Specialized dealer -- they had a Specialized Tricross Expert -- size 54cm -- I know it is too small but I gave it a ride to feel out the carbon rear and carbon fork. Damn that specialized rides smooth -- I rode it over some broken pavement and is just smooths out the road and kills road vibration. I was really impressed. 

So at this point I have to cross the Felt off the list -- the aluminum frame just transmitts too much back to my rear backside -- its a shame because the bang for buck just can't be beat. So now it is between the Lemond Poprad and the Specialized Tricross Comp. I was able to locate an 06 57cm poprad but am unsure of the fit - I will have to have the bike shipped to me. The 55cm poprad I test road was too small but I am afraid that the 57 might be a tad too big (I am 6'1" with a 34 or 35" true inseam). I plan to test ride a Comp58cm tricross this weekend. I also want to take the lemond out again to see how it rides again and also check sizing.

Comparing the lemond spec to the Specialized there is a big difference in price and some of the componentry. I think I can be the lemond for about $900 but it only comes with 9speed rear and has an aluminum fork that I would probably like to upgrade to carbon (ritchey comp carbon cyclocross for around $200) or a steel fork. Components are pretty much 105 stuff.

The Specialized Comp on the other had already has a carbon front fork, ultegra rear derailleur -- the rest of the bike is 105. The bike also has a triple crankset -- which coming from MTB might help me more than the double on the Lemond. Price -- I am hoping to get it for about $1500-1600 out the door -- I have not talked price with the dealer yet. I am not sure how the wheelsets stack up -- the Specialized has Roval Pave compared to Bonatrager Select on the Poprad.

Just to tell you what the purpose of the bike is - roads, dirt roads, doubletrack and some single track -- I really don't plan to race.

Any comments on sizing, components, etc are welcome.

thanks


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## crossdude (Jan 28, 2005)

hey eman2 sounds like your having fun test riding. 
again i'm on the 07 Specialized i'm also 6'1" but have a 36" inseam so i'm mostly legs and i'm on a 58cm tricross and it's a very good fit. 
i'll say it again the tricross with the cabon stays and Zert fitting is just the ticket for smoothing out the ride and the handling is just sweet. i think you would be better served by the tricross and not having to upgrade parts right out of the box
have fun.
Dan...


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## RHRoop (Nov 1, 2006)

*Raleigh*

I just got a Raleigh X 1.0. Its a great value. Skimps a bit on the mechs in that they are not Ultegra but this is not a good place to spend money.

Instead it has a great Easton Fork that probably retails for $400 by itself and it came with decent wheels, bars, seat and cranks.

It corners like it is on rails (great fork) and accelarates like a rocket (alu frame).


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## The Wrench (Oct 20, 2006)

Have you looked at Kona's Major Jake? It's got a carbon rear, one of the sweetest forks out there, and a pretty nice spec for not much more than the Specialized you're looking at.


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## vanjr (Sep 15, 2005)

I know this is a stupid question by me, but I thought the frame material wouldn't really matter in terms of the ride if you are riding on mud, grass, etc. and with the larger tires with lower pressure on a cross frame. Does AL really ride rougher than others?
tia


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## eman2 (Apr 3, 2006)

I have seen the Kona's on the website -- none in person. I am going to test ride a Tricross in my size tomorrow and that shop also deals with Kona. What I have seen from the spec on the Kona is that it is basically a 105 bike with carbon stay rear and a nice carbon fork and the bike retails for $2000. From what I see on the Tricross comp spec, the tri-cross seems nicer and a lbs was selling them for $1670 -- the comp also has ultegra rear. But I still want to check it out.


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## Redline Bicycles (Oct 26, 2005)

*Redline??*

Hey Eman2,
You have me curious here... why are we not considered for your test selection?? I ask this honestly and not as a plug for our company. As a product manager, I value all comments, either positive or negative, on how we're doing in the market place. I appreciate any comments you (or any one visiting this forum) may have.....

Thank you,
Craig- Redline


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## argylesocks (Aug 2, 2004)

vanjr said:


> I know this is a stupid question by me, but I thought the frame material wouldn't really matter in terms of the ride if you are riding on mud, grass, etc. and with the larger tires with lower pressure on a cross frame. Does AL really ride rougher than others?
> tia


not in my opinion.


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## RHRoop (Nov 1, 2006)

*Redline*

I heard some great feedback at the Cross race in Milwaukee last week. One rider said he was thinking of a Redline only because of the effort you make to outfit young riders. People riding Redlines praise the frames and mud clearance.

I went with a Raleigh pretty much based on price. Our sponsor shop has Scott, Raleigh, Redline and Kona. With my discount the Raleigh was a better value to me.


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## Redline Bicycles (Oct 26, 2005)

RHRoop,
If you were to put the discount aside, which bike would would you chose and why?? Just curious as I very much like to guage public opinion in this type of forum..... Also, if anyone will be at the USGP in Longmont and Boulder this weekend, stop buy our booth and let us know how we're doing....

Thanks,
Craig- Redline




RHRoop said:


> I heard some great feedback at the Cross race in Milwaukee last week. One rider said he was thinking of a Redline only because of the effort you make to outfit young riders. People riding Redlines praise the frames and mud clearance.
> 
> I went with a Raleigh pretty much based on price. Our sponsor shop has Scott, Raleigh, Redline and Kona. With my discount the Raleigh was a better value to me.


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## RHRoop (Nov 1, 2006)

Besides price for the things I value I think I would still fall on the side of Raleigh. The frame geometry suited me better and the Easton fork is top shelf. Drawbacks are the 9 speed shifters but the rear mech is actually 10 spd so it makes the upgrade pretty affordable.

I was looking for a way to get into cross racing with a quality bike and an easy upgrade path. Raliegh seemed to make that easier for me.


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## eman2 (Apr 3, 2006)

*Redline and Raliegh*

Well, I guess I have kinda of written off the Redline as well as the Raleigh because of the aluminum frames and since I rode the Felt aluminum frame and it felt harsh to me with larger wider cross tires on it -- I assumed that I would get a similar feeling with the other aluminum bikes. Thats also the reason for no cannondale consideration. I shop I am going to head off to in a bit also carries Raleigh so I will have to check that out as well.

Now you must remember that my primary use for this bike will not be cx racing, the bike will be for road, dirt road, double track and some singletrack -- so for me comfort while on the bike it a top consideration. When on the road I plan to put some road tires on, so if the bike is riding harsh in my opinon on cx tires at 85psi then I think it is going to be even more firm with a more narrow road tire. So a somewhat compliant rear frame and a carbon/compliant front fork are two important considerations for me.

For the Redline, I took a look, a brief look at your bikes. Last year I inquired about a Monocog aluminum bike and how the ride compared to a cannondale -- the dealer told me that the monocog would be even stiffer than the cannondale in the rear --- well I already have a cannondale hardtail and it is plenty stiff and I did not want anything stiffer. So I carried the monocog assumption over to your cross bikes. But in the end I have not ridden a redline. Perhaps I need to take a test ride and see for myself.

thanks
Ed


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## Redline Bicycles (Oct 26, 2005)

eman2 said:


> Well, I guess I have kinda of written off the Redline as well as the Raleigh because of the aluminum frames and since I rode the Felt aluminum frame and it felt harsh to me with larger wider cross tires on it -- I assumed that I would get a similar feeling with the other aluminum bikes. Thats also the reason for no cannondale consideration. I shop I am going to head off to in a bit also carries Raleigh so I will have to check that out as well.
> 
> Now you must remember that my primary use for this bike will not be cx racing, the bike will be for road, dirt road, double track and some singletrack -- so for me comfort while on the bike it a top consideration. When on the road I plan to put some road tires on, so if the bike is riding harsh in my opinon on cx tires at 85psi then I think it is going to be even more firm with a more narrow road tire. So a somewhat compliant rear frame and a carbon/compliant front fork are two important considerations for me.
> 
> ...


Ed,
I think your thought process is good for what you are trying to achieve. For me, I'd probably break it down to the percentage that you might be on the road with some 23's or the amount of time you’ll be riding on any type of offroad terrain. If over 50% of the time on the road, I’d say your thinking is very safe. If you think that you might be riding more offroad, then I think you can look at a solid aluminum frame as a valid choice. 

Aluminum tubing has come along way over the years, and there are many advances that allow us (or any manufacture) to create tubing types/ shapes that absorb vibration (harshness) better than ever. IMO, I think tire type/size/ pressure, saddle types, carbon seatposts, traditional frame shape versus semi compact or compact, have a larger measurable difference versus what material is used for the rear stays. 

I’d say also take a look at geometry’s including BB heights. In this category (Cross) there is about a 1” variance sometimes between manufactures…. Good luck and have fun!

Craig- Redline


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## The Wrench (Oct 20, 2006)

*This is refreshing...*

Craig, 

Props to you for taking an interest in making your company better and more competitive. 

I recently ordered the Felt. My short list included: 
Raleigh (LBS had none in stock)
Kona (nearest dealer was 2+ hours away, but the shop has a great reputation and treated me great over the phone)
Scott (LBS never returned my calls)
Felt
Redline 

I bought the Felt for a few reason, most of them probably trivial, but all of them based on the service I received at the LBS. The Felt dealer simply seemed like they were more interested in helping me, which came as a shock because my "usual" shop stocks Redline. They had a bike in stock for me to look at, even though it wasn't my size. The Redline dealer did not. To be fair, the Felt dealer "knows" cross. The Redline dealer does not, as there is apparently not much of a market for it here.

Product-wise, the Redline spec is very competetive for the price. And it's freaking gorgeous. LBS service made the difference for me.

Thanks!


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## Redline Bicycles (Oct 26, 2005)

The Wrench said:


> Craig,
> 
> Props to you for taking an interest in making your company better and more competitive.
> 
> ...


Wrench,
Thanks for the info.... My hope is that many shops could read your post. One of the greatest things about owning a shop, is the amount of flexability one has to run their own business. One of the worst about owning a shop, is the amount of flexability one has to run their own business...... 

I've been in this industry myself now for 20 years now (Yikes) but have seen many shops come and go. The shops that have a good pulse of the industry, keen in the business numbers, maintain (consistant) good customer service and are educated in sales training, will prosper for as long as they want to...... 

That was the coolest things for me when I worked in the shops. It was helping someone get turned onto the sport that loved so much... Listening to their needs then matching it with a product. Then seeing them come back week after week with the biggest grins they have had in a long time..... way cool. 

Congrats on your new rig....
Craig- Redline


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## conamethyst (Nov 6, 2006)

*So many options, why not one more?*

Not to throw another option into the mix, but i see some repeated discussion about the characteristics of AL and its weight, rigidity, blah blah blah. Why not go steel? You had previously mentioned the Jamis bike, and that may be a good beginner option. In my own arsenal is the Surly cross check frame with an upgraded carbon fork. Steel is great! You can easily build a lightweight steel machine. It's compliant and most importantly supremely durable. As a roadie myself, carbon is great. But, one wrong move, one minor crack, and bam! no more bike.  For Off-roading and commuting (which I do as well) I say durability is your number 1 investment. Next, your component group should be your main attraction. That's where you really should know what you want and why (i.e. a Thomson stem vs. some carbon contraption, or 3-cross-laced wheels instead of some radial crap). Anyway, there are a number of great CX bikes out there. But if racing really won't be your main focus, I suggest the time-tested and true steel.

Cheers!


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## eman2 (Apr 3, 2006)

*alright -- I have narrowed it down*

Of all the bikes I rode -- I like the Lemond poprad 06' model and the 07' Specialized Tri-cross Comp the best. Steel is real on the Poprad and the carbon rear stays on the tri-cross feel nice -- perhaps a little nicer than the steel.

So some of the final decision making issues come down to price and componentry.

-- Poprad is 9-speed 105 compared to tri-cross 10-speed 105 with ultegra rear derailleur
not sure if I really need 10 speed -- I have not ridden road in the past but to upgrade in the future will be pricey - new shifters and new cassette and chain
-- Poprad has an aluminum fork compared to the fact carbon on the tri-cross
I might want to add a carbon fork on the Poprad or maybe a steel for in the future -- probably costing around $150 to $250 (ritchey comp cross and winwood carbon forks)
-- Poprad double crankset compared to tricross triple with external bearings
-- Wheelset wise I am not sure how the Bonty selects compare to the Pave on the tri-cross - does anyone know if either of these hubs have sealed cartridge bearings? Which is a better wheelset?
-- I think the brake set is the same for both Avid Shorty 4's
-- Price -- I think I can get the Poprad for about $1k out the door with tax (add a carbon fork and or steel and that goes up to about $1200) and the tri-cross is probably going to run me around $1600 to $1700 with tax.

Just a note -- weight wise the 57cm Poprad came in at 22 lbs and the 58cm Tri-cross was 23.25 lbs - both measured on topeak bike stand scales.

Just for clarity -- the riding will be Michigan, with road, dirt road, two-track, single-track terrain and in order of most likely ridden. Most likely no cx racing.

So anyone have any thoughts and or comments?


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## conamethyst (Nov 6, 2006)

eman2 said:


> Of all the bikes I rode -- I like the Lemond poprad 06' model and the 07' Specialized Tri-cross Comp the best. Steel is real on the Poprad and the carbon rear stays on the tri-cross feel nice -- perhaps a little nicer than the steel.
> 
> Just for clarity -- the riding will be Michigan, with road, dirt road, two-track, single-track terrain and in order of most likely ridden. Most likely no cx racing.
> 
> ...


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## crossdude (Jan 28, 2005)

Hey eman2
I’ll chime in one more time here, looks like you have it down to two very good bikes. 
One more thing to ad, you’re in Michigan right, do they salt the roads? If they do and you’re on a steel bike you must be very attentive to cleaning your bike off! Steel rusts and salt well take its toll on a steel frame fast if you don’t stay on it. 
Just one more thing to conceder.
Dan…


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## myette10 (Jul 20, 2003)

Craig - Thanks for spending time with the group to discuss these things from the perspective on an industry insider. I've ridden a slightly undersized RL for 3 seasons but now that it has suffered a fatal crack, I'll probably look for a frame that fits better. If you guys made a size in between the 54 & 56 I'd still be riding your bikes. Have you ever considered this additional size?


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## Redline Bicycles (Oct 26, 2005)

myette10 said:


> Craig - Thanks for spending time with the group to discuss these things from the perspective on an industry insider. I've ridden a slightly undersized RL for 3 seasons but now that it has suffered a fatal crack, I'll probably look for a frame that fits better. If you guys made a size in between the 54 & 56 I'd still be riding your bikes. Have you ever considered this additional size?


Myette10,
Is it the standover or top tube length you wish to different between our 54cm and 56cm?? Have you seen the slight changes we have made to the 07 geometry?? Just curoius... 

Craig-Redline


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## myette10 (Jul 20, 2003)

Redline Bicycles said:


> Myette10,
> Is it the standover or top tube length you wish to different between our 54cm and 56cm?? Have you seen the slight changes we have made to the 07 geometry??


Craig - The top tube length is the issue for me. I've seen the changes and they are a big plus in my opinion. I can make both the 56 & 54 fit enough to use (and in fact I have both sizes right now, non sloping), but 55.5 is the magic number for me top tube wise. Like Goldilocks... not too long, not to short, just right. I was just wondering if you guys had ever considered offering that size. 

If rider sizes are normally distributed, then it woud seem to make sense to offer smaller increments between sizes towards the middle of the curve than towards the ends. That would likely be true for all manufacturers but I'm not sure why it isn't done more often. 
I'll make an assumption here that 54 & 56 are your most popular sizes (please correct me if I'm wrong). Wouldn't a size inbetween make sense as the majority of consumers of your product fall within a few points of the the average? Just a thought. 

Thanks again for the attention you give this stuff!


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