# Fixed miles vs Free miles ?



## Sixty Fiver (Jul 7, 2007)

I stopped by one of the racing shops today to pick up a new 16 tooth cog for my fixed mtb and got into a discussion on fixed gear bikes and how the mileage on a fixed gear relates to miles on a gearie... they really don't deal much with fixed gears although they do have a gorgeous Felt track bike in stock that I'm drooling over.

To start...I think the fellow there thinks I'm a freak as I mentioned that I've ridden my fixed gear commuter more than 4000 km since May and have logged another 3000 km on my other bikes of which, 5 are either fixed gears or single speeds.

I even ride a fixed gear mtb on the trails althouhg I prefer my geared mtbs for rhe singeltrack.

Anyways...he figures that riding 60 miles on a fixed gear has to be equal to riding 100 miles on a comparable geared bike and I don't think it's really that much harder... it's not like I get passed by folks on geared bikes and usually lead a good deal on group rides and have a tendency to drop some fairly fit folks on climbs.


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## MisterC (May 26, 2007)

I just recently switched from a freewheel single speed to fixed gear. I have a twenty mile loop around town that I get in pretty much every day unless the weather is bad. The first day that I went out with the fixie I didn't think the ride was all that much more difficult than the free wheel but now it's hard to remember.

So the difference between freewheel and fixie doesn't seem much to me. I've never riden single speed on the trails before but I know there are some climbs that I would not be able to get up were it not for my gear choices unless I didn't want to carry any speed along the flat trail sections.

From a fitness standpoint I think fixies really shine in urban riding environments where you are constantly slowing down using your legs rather than a brake lever. If you are riding on open road then fixie isn't too tough. Sure your legs are spinning like mad on a good sized downhill but it doesn't seem to tire me out.


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## Dave Hickey (Jan 27, 2002)

Sixty Fiver said:


> I stopped by one of the racing shops today to pick up a new 16 tooth cog for my fixed mtb and got into a discussion on fixed gear bikes and how the mileage on a fixed gear relates to miles on a gearie... they really don't deal much with fixed gears although they do have a gorgeous Felt track bike in stock that I'm drooling over.
> 
> To start...I think the fellow there thinks I'm a freak as I mentioned that I've ridden my fixed gear commuter more than 4000 km since May and have logged another 3000 km on my other bikes of which, 5 are either fixed gears or single speeds.
> 
> ...



Good question.. I think rides longer than an hour or so, fixed is harder than geared. I reguarly ride fixed 60 miles and I'm much more tired than when I ride 60 geared...I think it's stretching it a bit to compare it to 100.... 75 or 80 maybe,,, A lot depends on the terrain. A lot of descending can get very tiring on a fixed


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## Pablo (Jul 7, 2004)

For me, the terrain and the effort are far more significant factors than geared v. fixed. 

We can ride the hills anround a dam in the foothills of the Rockies and your legs will feel like you've gone through a pasta machine or we can ride along the flat irrigated cornfields and you'll narry notice a difference. 

Not to turn this into a racing/training thread, but you can ride within yourself (say zone 3 heartrate) on a fixie or a geared bike for hours and hours on end. By comparison, we can go do some intervals in an hour or so that will crush your soul and your legs. 

All in all, the main difference I notice between fixed and geared is the inability maintain the same pedalling cadence with rolling terrain on a fixied.


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## Sixty Fiver (Jul 7, 2007)

_From a fitness standpoint I think fixies really shine in urban riding environments where you are constantly slowing down using your legs rather than a brake lever. If you are riding on open road then fixie isn't too tough. Sure your legs are spinning like mad on a good sized downhill but it doesn't seem to tire me out._

I started riding fixed this year and figure the miles I have logged on a number of my fixies (mostly urban) has put me in the best riding shape I have been since I was in my early twenties.

I don't think I'll ever regain the form I had when I was 20 as I could have competed at an elite level but might take the advice of a few riding buddies who think I should enter some master's class races so I can find people who can kick my ass.

I think I'll be spending a good deal of time on the indoor track this winter so I can ride my fixed gears at the speeds I have grown accustomed to and keep my conditioning level up... 

Winter commuting (and we have real winters) is strenuous work and I'll be doing that on a fixed gear too.


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## roadfix (Jun 20, 2006)

Currently I've been riding about 50% fixed and 50% SS/geared.


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## wim (Feb 28, 2005)

For me, a large difference between fixed and freewheel is that I'm pretty much locked into two positions on a fixed: pedaling seated and pedaling standing up. With a freewheel, I often stop pedaling and stretch various parts of my body by doing all sorts of silly-looking, but effective "coasting calisthenics." Not being able to do that on a fixed gear is what really tires me out on long fixed rides.


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## PltJett (Nov 23, 2006)

As a side note: Buy the felt.


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## Christine (Jul 23, 2005)

I was just about to post this question in another thread: Does riding fixed make for a harder workout? Because after 25 miles on the fixed yesterday, I'm feeling it. And I'm hoping it's b/c fixie is that much harder, and not b/c I'm *this* out-of-shape!!


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## Sixty Fiver (Jul 7, 2007)

_


PltJett said:



As a side note: Buy the felt.

Click to expand...

_You're not helping... 

The object of my bike lust...










Christine - Riding fixed is much like riding ss...it takes some time to get your legs used to the different and continuous workout but once you do that 25 miles will feel like a warm-up.

I know folks who were in great shape that still took some time to get their fixed and ss legs under them.


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## PltJett (Nov 23, 2006)

Lol, oh, I know the bike well. It was my 1st track bike, and it is taking me all the way to nationals....

Just tell me if you want some more.......ehh..."helpful advice" 



And to actually add to this thread, I've always been WAY faster on a fixie than a SS or geared. Hence why I dont own anything but fixies anymore. And because of that, I find that fixed miles are easer for me. I have never been able to get into that deadbeat rythem on a freewheel like I can with a fixie.


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## BianchiJoe (Jul 22, 2005)

Christine said:


> fixed make for a harder workout?


I'm not sure how much a person coasts on an "average" ride (whatever that is), but I do know that pedaling certainly burns more calories than coasting does, even if you aren't pedaling under load. So if you coast, say, 15% of the time on a freewheel bike, then you must be getting a better workout when you coast 0% on the fixie. Add to the fact that when climbing, you're probably pushing a harder gear -- at least some of the time -- than you would on a gearie, and that makes a difference as well. So, IMO, yes - fixed makes for a harder workout. How _much_ harder I couldn't say.


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## Christine (Jul 23, 2005)

Did some shopping this afternoon and man, am I ever feeling an ache in my quads unlike the usual pain! jeeez louise. So if it's not burning more calories, it's at least waking up the other side of my legs!


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## Sixty Fiver (Jul 7, 2007)

Jett... Kudos on going to the nationals.

My much younger riding mates have been telling me I should really think about racing, albeit in the masters classes, since I'm nearly 42 and they think I'm an animal.

They also think I should ride a fixed gear.


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## threesportsinone (Mar 27, 2007)

> My much younger riding mates have been telling me I should really think about racing, albeit in the masters classes, since I'm nearly 42 and they think I'm an animal.


If you race would it be on the velodrome or a special road race or just a normal race which you would do on a fixed gear? The reason I'm asking is that there is a citizen series here called Wisport and I've thought about doing some races SS, and maybe fixed depending on how it turns out. If fixed miles are really much more than free miles how much of disadvantage would I be at for a 40mi race? What about for SS?


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## Touch0Gray (May 29, 2003)

I just thought about this thread for the past 2 1/4 hours as I banged my head into a 15 to 22 mph head wind without the ability to SHIFT....or COAST.......and in my opinion, on still, fairly flat terrain day, there is very little difference. BUT on the regular day, you know the one....with 15 or 20 miles into the 15 mph headwind and a couple of thousand feet of climb over 30 or 40 miles......a fixed workout is a good bit harder, at least for me.
As far as a mile to mile comparison.......That is really impossible.

As far as WAKING up the other side of my legs........they are looking forward to going BACK to sleep.

36 miles on a geared bike, in any conditions, is just a warmup as far as I am concerned, THIS was a real workout!



Riding fixed and ss and multi geared has dramatically changed my riding style...one thing I NEVER do any more is just stop pedalling.....at least without slowing it a bit and feeling for return pressure from the pedals.


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## Sixty Fiver (Jul 7, 2007)

threesportsinone said:


> If you race would it be on the velodrome or a special road race or just a normal race which you would do on a fixed gear? The reason I'm asking is that there is a citizen series here called Wisport and I've thought about doing some races SS, and maybe fixed depending on how it turns out. If fixed miles are really much more than free miles how much of disadvantage would I be at for a 40mi race? What about for SS?


Like TouchOGray pointed out... riding 36 miles, climbing, and doing much of this into a nasty headwind will make you wish you had some gears to fall back on.

I don't think I would enjoy riding laps in a velodrome (but who knows) and would think that racing on the open road is where I'd be happiest... I have not ruled out endurance racing as that's where I have a great deal of riding strength

I managed to pull off a sub hour 35 this year while riding my fixed gear touring bike ( I amazed myself)) and was carrying a decent amount of gear...this makes me think that pulling off a sub hour 40 on a fixed gear that probably weighs a third as much is more than possible.

The sub hour 35 was preceded by a 50 km ride that was taken at a much more leisurely pace where I averaged 25 kmh on a hillier route and I had several hours break between the two sections of what totalled up as a 50/50 metric century.

I suppose that for racing a guy should have two bikes and having a ligtweight gearie to fall back on would be a good idea as sometimes gears can be a good thing.


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## Touch0Gray (May 29, 2003)

Sixty Fiver said:


> Like TouchOGray pointed out... riding 36 miles, climbing, and doing much of this into a nasty headwind will make you wish you had some gears to fall back on.
> 
> I don't think I would enjoy riding laps in a velodrome (but who knows) and would think that racing on the open road is where I'd be happiest... I have not ruled out endurance racing as that's where I have a great deal of riding strength
> 
> ...



HOLY CRAP.....when I read that I read it as a sub-hour 35 MILES.......35K......that is WAY different....lol unless you got a flat to down hill grade with a mighty stiff tailwind and are pushing like 80 gear inches so you ain't spinning at a billion rpm for an hour....Still in all.....35 kph is respectable as hell for fixed on the road in my book

I get a bit spooked spinning at 137....but I can pretty regularly average 15.5 to 16.5 on a 30 mile run....and we got nothin' but rolling hills and headwinds....all in all it is still harder than riding my Bianchi....


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## Xray_ed (Mar 17, 2005)

Christine said:


> Did some shopping this afternoon and man, am I ever feeling an ache in my quads unlike the usual pain! jeeez louise. So if it's not burning more calories, it's at least waking up the other side of my legs!


Is this the same Christine from MTBR? If so, I'll tell you this; The fixie improved my MTBing as much or more than an SS MTB did. First, while the SS/MTB improves power (it will make you STRONG!, but you knew that:thumbsup: ), the fixie improved muscular endurance. The legs just don't get nearly a tired. Second, I don't coast over roots or rocks or around corners nearly as much. You would really be surprised how much speed you can carry over bumps or around corners if you don't coast!


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## PltJett (Nov 23, 2006)

Sixty Fiver said:


> I don't think I would enjoy riding laps in a velodrome (but who knows) and would think that racing on the open road is where I'd be happiest... I have not ruled out endurance racing as that's where I have a great deal of riding strength


If you like the road aspect of racing, then just to mass start stuff on the track. It's all the excitement of a road race......just..................compacted. My track does anywhere from 10 laps (1.6 miles) to 150 lap (25 miles) point races.

But even if you dont like the drome, there should be some fixie races around ya. We have a hill climb series that has a geared group and a fixed group. Same with cross. And even if there aint some, then make some!


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## Sixty Fiver (Jul 7, 2007)

Fixed gear bikes are getting more and mor popular here every day and I expect that we might see some fixed gear races that aren't alley cat races.

In other news...I just picked up a Phillips twenty folder and saw that Sheldon brown had converted one into a fixed gear... 

Hmmm.


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## VaughnA (Jun 3, 2003)

Because of the very hilly terrain around here (Blue Ridge Mountains, VA) I can only handle about 60 miles fixed before I'm toast, 100 singlespeed is usually not a big problem if I pace myself. The downhills are what kill me. A big mistake is trying to keep up with the geared guys, I tend to blow up attempting to stay with the group. When I do longer organized rides on the fixie or SS, I usually ride alone. I'm a lot fresher in the end. I tried to get a fixed century in about a month ago, but attempted to stay with the group which was moving pretty fast. I ended up flipping the wheel at around 50 miles, I was killiing myself on the downhills trying to keep up.


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## MB1 (Jan 27, 2004)

The Mrs thinks that riding fixed is easier than free on the road. Generally for 100+ miles our average speed ends up being a mile or 2 an hour faster fixed as compared to the riding same routes free (and no, we don't avoid hills. We search them out.). 

OTOH we rarely go longer than 200k fixed, I suspect that anything much longer than 150 miles would be pretty tough fixed unless you work your way up to it.


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## MisterC (May 26, 2007)

Did I just hear someone claim 15.5 to 16.5 mph avg. on a 30 mile run?


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## Touch0Gray (May 29, 2003)

yeah you did....I have the .gpx files too. 

I did not say I averaged 15.5 to 16.5 I said :


> ....but I can pretty regularly average 15.5 to 16.5 on a 30 mile run.


there is a difference..there are the 13 mph days too.....overall, more like 14....to 15


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## MisterC (May 26, 2007)

I didn't mean to come off rude. I was just musing. I assume you are talking about a ride not a "run". Running 30 miles in 2 hours would be quite the accomplishment.

I have a speed sign near my house that I go past on level ground. On my fixie at my normal pace and cadence I pass it at 17 mph. I figure (without taking traffic relating stopping into account) I average a little below that. I get out of the saddle and pound out every climb and do my best to accelerate down every hill. On a windy day, as we have had a lot of lately, I'm sure I am considerably slower.

I need to find an area free of traffic where I can put 30 or 40 miles down unabated but I haven't really tried to quatify my riding until now so around town has been my workout area and getting repeatable numbers can be difficult.

Some days I'd just rather be trackstanding. :thumbsup:


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## Touch0Gray (May 29, 2003)

MisterC said:


> I didn't mean to come off rude. I was just musing. I assume you are talking about a ride not a "run". Running 30 miles in 2 hours would be quite the accomplishment.
> 
> I have a speed sign near my house that I go past on level ground. On my fixie at my normal pace and cadence I pass it at 17 mph. I figure (without taking traffic relating stopping into account) I average a little below that. I get out of the saddle and pound out every climb and do my best to accelerate down every hill. On a windy day, as we have had a lot of lately, I'm sure I am considerably slower.
> 
> ...



Sorry I did misinterperet your comment, so thanks for clearing that up....lol
Frankly, I see no reason to RUN as long as I have 3 good bikes! 
I have been logging all my rides with gps for a couple of years now so numbers aren't hard to come by. I am real lucky, where I live, on a good day I can ride 20 or 30 miles without seeing a car. Wind and hills on the other hand......


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## Christine (Jul 23, 2005)

Xray_ed said:


> Is this the same Christine from MTBR?


One and the same  



Xray_ed said:


> If so, I'll tell you this; The fixie improved my MTBing as much or more than an SS MTB did. First, while the SS/MTB improves power (it will make you STRONG!, but you knew that:thumbsup: ), the fixie improved muscular endurance. The legs just don't get nearly a tired. Second, I don't coast over roots or rocks or around corners nearly as much. You would really be surprised how much speed you can carry over bumps or around corners if you don't coast!


What's odd is that I never really had the craving for a SS on the trails (except to try it to see what all the fuss is about.....and hey, would be nice to have at least one of every type of bike!) But the fixie has me hooked for some reason.....maybe the extreme simplicity of it, and the way it feels (noticeably different from all the other bikes.)

It's nice to know that maybe it'll help w/MTB. It's definitely forcing me to pick lines _FAST _  when I'm normally inclined to brake. I'm still trying to break the habit of coasting over bumps and into turns, that's a tough one.


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