# how much better is s works frame than elite/comp



## carrock (Aug 10, 2009)

I have a roubaix elite which has been upgraded with Roval wheels and ultegra brakes, although it has 105 groupset

I now have the opportunity to buy an s works roubaix frameset at a good price (£1500)

I can buy an Ultegra groupset for £700, swap my Roval wheels over and basically have an S works roubaix for £2500 rather then the £5500 they cost in the UK

Is there _really_ much difference between a Elite/105 and an S works/Ultegra

I could put the stock wheels back on the elite and sell it for about £1000 so the net spend would be £1500


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## RkFast (Dec 11, 2004)

I dont know how much "better" the S-Works frame is over the other Spesh offerings. 

But having an S-Works Tarmac I can tell you its the sweetest ride I ever threw a leg over. Worth the price and if you consider what other top/pro-level frames go for, quite a steal.


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## carrock (Aug 10, 2009)

Thanks for reply- I'm sure the S works is better than the base model in every measurable way

I guess where I'm coming from , is how much can be attributed to the frame, and how much is due to the better groupset and wheels


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## xjbaylor (Dec 28, 2006)

carrock said:


> Thanks for reply- I'm sure the S works is better than the base model in every measurable way
> 
> I guess where I'm coming from , is how much can be attributed to the frame, and how much is due to the better groupset and wheels


If you decide to buy the S-works frame don't bother switching to Ultegra right away. 105 is a great component group, just a little on the heavy side. Get a good set of wheels. I am sure you will notice more of a change from a good wheelset than a frame, and definitely more than a new component group.

Good luck with whatever you decide to do.


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## RkFast (Dec 11, 2004)

Agreed. I always find, and this goes for MTB, too...it works like this: 

Frame -->Wheels -->Components.


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## serious (May 2, 2006)

Wheels and components are much higher on my list than a frame!


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## ukbloke (Sep 1, 2007)

serious said:


> Wheels and components are much higher on my list than a frame!


But you still have an S-Works Roubaix frame! I guess you must have Di2 components and Lightweight wheels too? 

I think the quantitative difference between an Elite/105 bike and an S-Works/Ultegra is not that much (i.e. expressed in numbers like time on a hill climb or time-trial). However, the qualitative difference can be very substantial - certainly given the number of words that people have used in this forum to describe the qualities of their very expensive bikes!

Personally, given a budget I look for a balance when spreading my money across frame, wheels and components. I built my bike up in late 2008 (Tarmac Pro SL frame, DA 7800 components, DA 7850SL wheels), and it's still not at all clear to me these days as to which part of it would be up for replacement first.


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## serious (May 2, 2006)

ukbloke: *But you still have an S-Works Roubaix frame*

Touché!  The reality is that I have the S-Works because it was on sale at 50% off as a complete bike, so I went for it. My single speed, rigid mountain bike (which is my race bike) is built around an inexpensive Aluminium frame, but al the components and wheels are top notch. Same cost as the S-Works road bike, in fact!


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## cyclequip (Oct 20, 2004)

There is an analogy about bicycles being likened to a tree .......
The roots equate to the wheels, the branches to the componentry, the leaves to the groupset and the trunk to the frameset. Draw your own conclusions as to the relative value of the frameset.


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## xjbaylor (Dec 28, 2006)

RkFast said:


> Agreed. I always find, and this goes for MTB, too...it works like this:
> 
> Frame -->Wheels -->Components.


I didn't say that. IMO:

1. Wheels
2. Frame
3. Drivetrain
4. Components


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## aaric (Mar 10, 2011)

ukbloke said:


> I built my bike up in late 2008 (Tarmac Pro SL frame, DA 7800 components, DA 7850SL wheels), and it's still not at all clear to me these days as to which part of it would be up for replacement first.


I'll just derail the thread a little because your build seems very similar to my old build, and I'd share my experience:

Frame, by far. I just upgraded my '08 S-Works Tarmac SL to an '11 S-Works SL3. The '11 is stiffer, more comfortable, and significantly lighter. Night and day difference, that I didn't expect.

My old bike was 7800, and I went to red. Wife rides 7900. Newer groupsets are lighter, and a bit more ergonomic. Pretty decent upgrade, but nothing like the frame.

I've got the 7850 SLs (wife rides them now) and some 7900 C24's as well. The 7900 C24s are an incremental improvement.


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## ukbloke (Sep 1, 2007)

aaric said:


> Frame, by far. I just upgraded my '08 S-Works Tarmac SL to an '11 S-Works SL3. The '11 is stiffer, more comfortable, and significantly lighter. Night and day difference, that I didn't expect.


Very interesting to hear your experience! Your 08 S-Works Tarmac SL is fairly comparable to my 2009 Pro SL frame - yours would have been the higher spec model if anything.

Did you change to the OSBB too? If so, do you attribute any of the improvement to that change? I do think I'd drop ~200g off the frame if I did the upgrade (not that I am thinking about it).


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## aaric (Mar 10, 2011)

ukbloke said:


> Very interesting to hear your experience! Your 08 S-Works Tarmac SL is fairly comparable to my 2009 Pro SL frame - yours would have been the higher spec model if anything.
> 
> Did you change to the OSBB too? If so, do you attribute any of the improvement to that change? I do think I'd drop ~200g off the frame if I did the upgrade (not that I am thinking about it).



I went OSBB with a SRAM Red crankset. Its possible some of the stiffness is from the OSBB. However, just looking at the bikes while standing on the pedals, there was a lot more flex in the older frame around the bottom bracket area. Looking at the area around the bottom bracket between the bikes with them side by side, there's significantly more material on the newer frame - the area between the seat tube and down tube had been reinforced drastically, in addition to a much larger down tube. Also, the steerer tube/fork has been put on steroids and reworked. FWIW, if my memory serves, I dropped over 250g on the frameset/fork in a 58cm size.

I really expected the ride on the new frame to be a bit harsher, but was amazed that it seemed to suck up the road chatter a little bit better, even while transferring power better.


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## aaric (Mar 10, 2011)

pic of the newer bb area:


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