# Ultegra SL or SRAM Rival?



## guth_c (Dec 3, 2007)

I'm upgrading my 105 9-speed to either the Ultegra SL or the SRAM Rival. I was initially automatically going to go with the Ultegra, being accustomed to the feel of Shimano, but the Rival falls within my upgrade budget so I'm considering it. Been reading up on it as well and am intrigued with the double-tap. 

Which should I get?


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## velomonkey (Jul 8, 2003)

No question - Ultegra SL. The Rival group isn't really all that great and I know about three people that used it and immediately switched to Shimano. Now if you maybe wanted to do SRAM Force that might be a different story, but Rival is a no brainer, you will not see any upgrade from your 105.


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## Richard (Feb 17, 2006)

Find a Rival specced bike and test ride it.

I've only briefly ridden one, but, like going from Campy to Shimano, a few trips around the block should do the trick. Others that I've talked to say it takes a bit of getting used to, but once done, it works great.

As to the relative merits, I like the fact that Shimano has more competition in the American market (which Campy seems to have abandoned in the OEM). I like the all alloy look, the clean cable routing, the very competitive weight, etc.

And from our shop's experience, SRAM (including Avid, Rock Shock, and Truvative) backs up their products very well.


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## Jett (Mar 21, 2004)

velomonkey said:


> No question - Ultegra SL. The Rival group isn't really all that great and I know about three people that used it and immediately switched to Shimano. Now if you maybe wanted to do SRAM Force that might be a different story, but Rival is a no brainer, you will not see any upgrade from your 105.


Why is a different story with Force? Functionally, Force and Rival is exactly the same. The only really difference is the weight. Force uses lighter material like carbon, magnesium and titanium. And if weight is the issue, I think Rival is lighter the Ultegra. 

I agree with Richard, test ride a Rival (or even Force) bike and see how you like the Double Tap.


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## FTR (Sep 20, 2006)

velomonkey said:


> No question - Ultegra SL. The Rival group isn't really all that great and I know about three people that used it and immediately switched to Shimano. Now if you maybe wanted to do SRAM Force that might be a different story, but Rival is a no brainer, you will not see any upgrade from your 105.


Absolute funniest post I have read this month.
As Jett said, Rival and Force are functionally the same except that Force got some bling carbon and a couple of Ti bolts.
I have used both Ultegra and Rival and I will take the Rival every time.
You do realise that Rival was released as a direct competitor to Ultegra.


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## MarvinK (Feb 12, 2002)

velomonkey said:


> ..now if you maybe wanted to do SRAM Force that might be a different story, but Rival is a no brainer...


OK, so velomonkey seems a little out of it... but I really think the thing that sparks this type of comment is that people are put off by the look of Rival's cranks--especially in comparison to how pretty the Ultegra SL parts are. If you're looking at SL, you're probably in the budget of a VERY nice SRAM mixed package. 

Here's what I'd consider on an Ultegra SL budget:

GVHBikes KitBuilder Components:
Front Derailleur SRAM Rival 
Rear Derailleur SRAM Rival 
Shifter SRAM Red 
Cassette SRAM OG-1070 11-26 
Chain SRAM 1090 R 
Total: $545.00 

This doesn't include a crank or brakes. If you want a crank, BikeTiresDirect has the Leopard Carbon for $165.

This is a lighter configuration than Ultegra SL, gives you pro-quality shifting and some serious bling over UltegraSL or straight-Rival with the Red shifters.

In any case--definitely test it first. I found SRAM Double Tap to be great--and the SRAM brake hoods are WAY more comfortable than bulbous Shimano hoods (supposedly, Shimano will release DuraAce 2009 with revamped hoods similar to SRAM/Campy--no more bulb, and hides cables under tape).


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## Cheers! (Aug 20, 2006)

ultegra SL.


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## guth_c (Dec 3, 2007)

Thanks for the inputs. I asked an LBS today after my ride and the owner said that a lot of people that bought Rivals from them complained about the derailleurs malfunctioning. Have you guys heard anything like that from your ride buddies?


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## epicxt (Apr 26, 2005)

I've only had positive experiences with the new SRAM. I've read online of early derailleur problems but never witnessed any. I've got about 2500 miles on a Rival drivetrain (minus the cranks) without any problems and I just built up my new ride with Red shifters and a Force rear derailleur. These replaced the Dura-Ace that it came stock with.

I *did* see a lot of cyclocrossers running Rival on their rigs, and if you want to see some equipment that gets abused...


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## manhattanproj (Jul 13, 2006)

i'll go with ultegra sl for the looks alone. 

but i've never ridden any sram stuff, so can't really comment on that.


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## MarvinK (Feb 12, 2002)

Rival is gaining popularity in Cyclecross faster than anywhere else--which is a good testament to being tough.

I was an early adopter of SRAM Force, and I do recall some dealers having difficulty tuning it right. I hadn't heard of a trend of actual failures. Everyone else I talk to with SRAM is happy with it. If your shop has a rough time with getting it working right, they do have a hotline for mechanics.

Ultegra SL certainly does look nice--but Shimano is now playing catch up. If you look at what they're working on for 2009, they are focused on features already offered by SRAM and Campy: comfortable hoods, clean internal cable routing, adding carbon parts, lighter weight, etc...

For me, it would be hard to pass up on Rival's near-DuraAce weight, with a much lower cost than Ultegra SL. Personally, I'd swap the Rival shifters for Red.


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## ghostzapper2007 (May 22, 2007)

MarvinK said:


> Rival is gaining popularity in Cyclecross faster than anywhere else--which is a good testament to being tough.
> 
> I was an early adopter of SRAM Force, and I do recall some dealers having difficulty tuning it right. I hadn't heard of a trend of actual failures. Everyone else I talk to with SRAM is happy with it. If your shop has a rough time with getting it working right, they do have a hotline for mechanics.
> 
> ...


Shimanos changing of their hood profile for 2009 probably has more to do with running the cables under the bar tape and making an overall lower profile shifter than it does with trying to make them more comfortable. I know loads of riders who feel the Shimano hoods are more comfortable than the flattened style hoods of Campy or SRAM. A perfectly flat or near flat hood may feel ergonomically superior to some, and to others it won't. I am one of those riders who never liked the flattened profile of Campy levers just like I don't want to be holding a steering wheel which is near flat in profile shape. I rode Campy Chorus hoods for a season and thought they were no where near as comfortable as Shimano hoods.


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## _velodoc_ (Dec 26, 2007)

Two completely different shifting mechanisms altogether! It's totally up to personal preference!
Your going to get people that love shimano and hate SRAM and people that love SRAM and hate shimano...take that into account as you read through these posts, this thread is kerosine for a personal bias...

The only difference between Rival and Force is weight, shifting mechanics are identical.
Rival is lighter than Ultegra by a mile (except cranks)! not sure about comparison to SL tho'

Best bet is to ride SRAM and see if you like the shifting. I personally prefer the double tap, albeit, I came from mountain biking and have always used SRAM gripshift and the double tap mechanism feels really good to me...just my personal opinion though


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## ghostzapper2007 (May 22, 2007)

Get whichever shift mechanism, ergonomics, aesthetics you prefer. Things like shifting, braking, durability and functionailty are worlds more important than inconsequential weight differences. The weight of half a medium sized water bottle vwould cover the entire spectrum of weight differences between Ultegra and SRAM Red. It's silly to the nth degree to believe that these weight differences mean a hil of beans to a rider unless he's riding at the TDF level.


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## Jett (Mar 21, 2004)

_velodoc_ said:


> The only difference between Rival and Force is weight, shifting mechanics are identical.
> Rival is lighter than Ultegra by a mile (except cranks)! not sure about comparison to SL tho'


Check out the following site, it has a weight and prices comparison of SL vs Rival. I believe they've listed the OCT version of the Rival cranks.

http://my.opera.com/badmadcyclist/blog/ultegra-sl-vs-sram-rival


For those who don't want to pull out the calculator, here are the weights totaled:

SL: 1844 g
Rival: 1716 g


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## Jett (Mar 21, 2004)

MarvinK said:


> Here's what I'd consider on an Ultegra SL budget:
> 
> GVHBikes KitBuilder Components:
> Front Derailleur SRAM Rival
> ...


Quick question, I thought I read somewhere that you need the Red front derailleur to get the new trim feature. Am I wrong? Do you need just the shifters?


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## epicxt (Apr 26, 2005)

*Just the shifters...*



Jett said:


> Quick question, I thought I read somewhere that you need the Red front derailleur to get the new trim feature. Am I wrong? Do you need just the shifters?


The trim feature is always in the shifter (it controls cable tension which in turn controls where the ft. derailleur is positioned). I'm actually running a DA ft. derailleur with my Red shifters and it works fine with the exception of a bit of rubbing in my small ring in the front and my higher gears in the back. This isn't much of an issue for me because I'm normally in the big chainring by that time. I still may change to a Force or Red ft. derailleur because I believe the gate is a bit wider and would do away with the rub.


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## danl1 (Jul 23, 2005)

ghostzapper2007 said:


> It's silly to the nth degree to believe that these weight differences mean a hil of beans to a rider unless he's riding at the TDF level.


That's the only place where it doesn't matter, since the UCI has minimum weight standards that today's bikes easily blow past. 

But I agree with your point, the weight simply doesn't matter. Divide the weight delta by the total of bike, rider, and kit, count the number of left-hand zeros, and relax.


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## ghostzapper2007 (May 22, 2007)

danl1 said:


> That's the only place where it doesn't matter, since the UCI has minimum weight standards that today's bikes easily blow past.
> 
> But I agree with your point, the weight simply doesn't matter. Divide the weight delta by the total of bike, rider, and kit, count the number of left-hand zeros, and relax.


Exactly, perhaps my point could have been better worded. Believing that RED or Record weight differences are going to improve your cycling performance in any meaningful way over say Rival, Ultegra, Centaur weights would be comparable to believing that by changing out your gym shoes to a more expensive pair you'll go from last guy selected to first choice in the weekly pick up games. It's all nonsense and marketing driven schemes which sell these essentially meaningless weight differences between groups to rec. consumers. Watch a guy fall off the back of the pack on Centaur and he'll fall off just the same if he changes to Red or Record.


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## superjohnny (May 16, 2006)

You guys are full of it. In my riding group one guy went from being the caboose to taking the longest pulls up front, just by switching from Tiagra to a Rival group. His shifting was so clean and fast we had to kick him out of the club.


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## MarvinK (Feb 12, 2002)

superjohnny said:


> You guys are full of it. In my riding group one guy went from being the caboose to taking the longest pulls up front, just by switching from Tiagra to a Rival group. His shifting was so clean and fast we had to kick him out of the club.


whoa... are you sure he didn't add some carbon bars & post at the same time? Seems like Rival couldn't do that by itself...


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## Troy16 (Jan 2, 2003)

MarvinK said:


> whoa... are you sure he didn't add some carbon bars & post at the same time? Seems like Rival couldn't do that by itself...


It would be hard to imagine that Rival alone did that without at a minimum adding a rear derailleur with some carbon fiber in it. You would also probably need a front derailleur paddle made of CF too. Thrown in some Nokon cables and a cute CF handlebar and you're Lance Armstrong. Yahooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo


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## Fixed (May 12, 2005)

*What are you guys talking about?*



Troy16 said:


> It would be hard to imagine that Rival alone did that without at a minimum adding a rear derailleur with some carbon fiber in it. You would also probably need a front derailleur paddle made of CF too. Thrown in some Nokon cables and a cute CF handlebar and you're Lance Armstrong. Yahooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo


Hey, as soon as I switched from Shimano to Campy Record all the guys around here started letting me pull all the time. They recognized the superiority and duly fell in line behind me.


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## guth_c (Dec 3, 2007)

I ended up with the Ultegra SL. Just bought it this morning and can't wait to stick it on my bike. Thanks for all the inputs. It boiled down to price. I got a really good deal on the SL.


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## guth_c (Dec 3, 2007)

I ended up with the Ultegra SL. Just bought it this morning and can't wait to stick it on my bike. Thanks for all the inputs. It boiled down to price. I got a really good deal on the SL.


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## drewmcg (Sep 19, 2005)

MarvinK said:


> ...
> 
> Here's what I'd consider on an Ultegra SL budget:
> 
> ...


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## ghostzapper2007 (May 22, 2007)

drewmcg said:


> MarvinK said:
> 
> 
> > ...
> ...


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## btinder (Aug 25, 2007)

You've got to go with what you feel most comfortable with. I really like Rival (its by far the most innovative drivetrain) but I appreciate the number of positions I get with Shimano. 

Shimano is also known for buttery smooth shifting, whereas SRAM gives you more feedback.

I know this answer is boring, but just try them both out! If you can't, my vote is for the SL.


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## barbedwire (Dec 3, 2005)

ghostzapper2007 said:


> Shimanos changing of their hood profile for 2009 probably has more to do with running the cables under the bar tape and making an overall lower profile shifter than it does with trying to make them more comfortable. I know loads of riders who feel the Shimano hoods are more comfortable than the flattened style hoods of Campy or SRAM. A perfectly flat or near flat hood may feel ergonomically superior to some, and to others it won't. I am one of those riders who never liked the flattened profile of Campy levers just like I don't want to be holding a steering wheel which is near flat in profile shape. I rode Campy Chorus hoods for a season and thought they were no where near as comfortable as Shimano hoods.




Do we actually know that Shimano is changing the hood shape in 2009 to run the cables under the bar tape? The der cables outside the bar tape is distinctively Shimano and there are less bends when the der cables are outside the bar tape. Less bends = crisper shifting.


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## DIRT BOY (Aug 22, 2002)

barbedwire said:


> Do we actually know that Shimano is changing the hood shape in 2009 to run the cables under the bar tape? The der cables outside the bar tape is distinctively Shimano and there are less bends when the der cables are outside the bar tape. Less bends = crisper shifting.


Yes, 2009 Dura-Ace and eDura-Ace ONLY!!

Maybe tricke down in 2010-11 for Ultergra and 105 in 20012


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## barbedwire (Dec 3, 2005)

DIRT BOY said:


> Yes, 2009 Dura-Ace and eDura-Ace ONLY!!
> 
> Maybe tricke down in 2010-11 for Ultergra and 105 in 20012




So, I guess this was another rumor gone wrong. Shimano actually isn't changing the shape of the brake hoods to run the shifter cables under the bar tape. Shimano is doing a electronic Dura Ace, ie. no cables at all, at least not under the bar tape. I like the idea of having the shifter cables hidden under bar tape. I don't like the idea of electric shifting. It just isn't necessary for saving minimal grams, if that. So, thumbs down on that.


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## CXe (Sep 23, 2005)

Anyone know if I can run my Shimano R700 compact crankset with a full SRAM Rival kit?

Thanks,
Ryan


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## DIRT BOY (Aug 22, 2002)

barbedwire said:


> So, I guess this was another rumor gone wrong. Shimano actually isn't changing the shape of the brake hoods to run the shifter cables under the bar tape. Shimano is doing a electronic Dura Ace, ie. no cables at all, at least not under the bar tape. I like the idea of having the shifter cables hidden under bar tape. I don't like the idea of electric shifting. It just isn't necessary for saving minimal grams, if that. So, thumbs down on that.


Oh, yes they are!! There is DA 7900 with new hoods shape, cables under the tape, new FD, RD and cranks. THEN there is the new eDura-Ace Eclcetronic group. Those shifters appear to be slighty differnt than 7800 and 7900. Pictures are on the net and my blog.


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## epicxt (Apr 26, 2005)

CXe said:


> Anyone know if I can run my Shimano R700 compact crankset with a full SRAM Rival kit?
> 
> Thanks,
> Ryan


shouldn't be a problem. You can run pretty much any modern double crank. Enjoy!


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## fab4 (Jan 8, 2003)

*2009 SRAM Rival*

If you can wait 'till the end of summer you might be able to get the new 2009 SRAM Rival group. More carbon, lighter crankset, and front derailleur trim like the RED for the same price. Check it out at http://www.velonews.com/article/75150.


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## Midwest Playa (Sep 12, 2008)

Ok Guys

I can get a brand new set Sram Rival for the FF:

Shifters
Chain
Brakes
Front D
Rear D
Cassette

$475.00

I am in process of building my 2nd Bike and was just planning on transfering my current Ice Grey Sl Ultegra components.

I have never used anything other than Shimanos

Can I get an opinion if I should jump on this deal or stick with my components which are in excellent shape and get some new wheels instead??

HELP

I HAVE TIL TEUSDAY TO MAKE UP MY MIND

Its How I roll

Midwest Playa


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## MarvinK (Feb 12, 2002)

What don't you like about you Shimano stuff? What parts will you put on the existing bike? I wouldn't pay $475 to SWAP parts... I mean, you can get that stuff for close to that price without giving up your Ultegra.

If you're going to be buying a set of parts for one of the bikes, Rival is great. You should actually test ride a bike with SRAM first, though.


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## Midwest Playa (Sep 12, 2008)

Sup Marvin

I was going to give the Frame to my son and he will put his 105's on the frame and I was going to transfer my ultegras to the new bike build.

As I said this deal just cam about 2 days ago and I just wnat to know if I should get it or just use the ultegras and save the bucks for the wheels

Thanks Again

I have no clue about Sram but I was told if I was going to get sram get the Red of Force

Now this set that I am being offered is the 09 which is supposed to be better than the 08 model it has the carbon shifter double tap.

Thanks Again

Its how I roll

Midwestplaya


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## MarvinK (Feb 12, 2002)

I wouldn't for that $$... I'd spend it on wheels. That price isn't anything too special. You can get the whole groupset (including crank & bb) for around $600 normally. You'll get more performance out of wheels and since you haven't tried it, you may find you don't like it as well as Shimano.


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## Midwest Playa (Sep 12, 2008)

Thanks Marvin

After doing some research tonight I have also come to a conclusion that the deal is not that great. Even my friend said if you go Sram dont go below the 09 Force or the Top of the line Reds. I think I will wait and pass on the deal, he was also selling the cranks but the crank I need for my new bike build is BB30 .

Anyways as I told him I never had any problems with my Ultegra Sl, I actually love the smooth shifting. an absolute no problems at all. and I already logged in 2000 miles this year.

Dam Marvin when I took on this hobby last year no one told me it can be addicting.lol

Now my Dilema is wheels 

I am leaning towards the Reynolds Assault I have a nice set of Mavics sl retrofitted with ceramic speed bearings. But I want some nice bling wheels to go with my new bike build Also I want to experience the Aero wheels in a carbon clincher.

Its How I Roll

Midwest Playa


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## Wheelman55 (Jul 10, 2009)

Midwest Playa said:


> Now my Dilema is wheels
> 
> I am leaning towards the Reynolds Assault I have a nice set of Mavics sl retrofitted with ceramic speed bearings. But I want some nice bling wheels to go with my new bike build Also I want to experience the Aero wheels in a carbon clincher.


Consider some test rides on a few wheel sets. Remember that the Aero wheels look good but are for limited conditions. If you ride on your own most of the time stick with 24mm rims.


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## LazyClimber (Jun 23, 2009)

I have a really low-end Shimano setup that came stock on my cross frame (1500 mi). I can't stand the shifts and was thinking SRAM or Ultegra. Looks like I can get an Ultegra that'll work with my triple and just swap out my:

FD, RD, cassette (going to 10 sp), chain (mine's about shot), and shifters.

going Ultegra at LBS will cost $550. I might be interested in the Rival (and its cheaper), but don't want to pay for a new double crank set.

Am I right that Rival requires a double?

What's a good place to buy Ultegra or Rival drivetrain?


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