# Best Chain for Sram??



## Tomb2100

Just installed Sram Rival on my girlfriends bike, have noticed the chain is a bit on the noisy side in the middle rear cogs, kind of a grinding feeling through the pedals, but set up of the rear mech is spot on and it all shifts well :thumbsup: 

Before I put Sram Force on my bike (she is my Beta Tester  ) can you recommend which is the best chain to use with the Sram Cassettes?

Thanks Sram Folks!


----------



## stwok

I'm using a Dura Ace chain and 12-25 rear cog with Force fd and rd. Every bit as quiet as my other bike which is full 10 spd. DA !! I prefer the function and feel of the SRAM shifters over DA.


----------



## epicxt

I am running a bike with Rival brifters and shifters and a SRAM cassette. My cranks are campy and I've had great luck with the Record chain (quiet and durable).


----------



## Tamu8104

*Chain*

I used several different SRAM chains most of last season but wasn't completely satisfied with them so I switched to a DA chain and have seen a difference. (quieter and seems to shift better). FYI, I'm running full SRAM except for the chain.


----------



## The Flash

I am real happy with the KMC chains...quiet, last a long time and have a removeable link....

The SRAM chain has really disappointed me....

Flash


----------



## jhamlin38

I have Sram 1090r chain on campy drivetrain, and plan on switching to kmc chain. people really seem to like the kmc chains. the quick link thingy only goes on, and doesnt come off! how dumb is that? i know people have been able to re-use the black link, but i started to butcher mine up with needlenose. I think duraace chains are the quietest. but I'm not a big fan of breaking off the pins.


----------



## stevesbike

I was disappointed with the sram chain as well (particularly considering the price). I switched to a dura-ace chain after reading Saunier Duval runs these on their SRAM setup. Noticed an immediate improvement.


----------



## jimy

I just removed a mavic/wipperman (IT WAS HORRIBLE)chain from my rival group and replaced it with the sram 1090r chain with the powerlock link and it performs smooth and shifts flawlessly. I guess i will find out about the not reusable link when i go to remove it and hopefully reinstall it.


----------



## ghammer

campy chain, but with the sram connecting link. the set shifts the same but is substantially quieter. besides, campy chains last longer than shimano. for the record (no pun intended), i had sram chain on my bike for 6,000kms and had no trouble. the chain stretches very little and i may go back once my chain wears out.


----------



## kneejerk

Dura Ace! 
and don't forget to align the rear derailer hanger!


----------



## Tschai

I had the same issue. The DA chains are better, but they don't last long. I will be trying a KMC next.


----------



## kneejerk

I'm in for trying a new chain. My Park wear tool is telling me I have 0.75mm wear on my Dura-Ace chain after some 2,200 miles. I lube my chain almost religiously. I am likely going to wait for the 1.0mm wear side on the Park tool to drop in before changing it. Any suggestions? I was thinking of trying the Ultegra next? or a KMC (although I don't care for the quick disconnect links, seem to be a weakness, I prefer a press in pin ala Shimano)


----------



## Tschai

My pal Doug's thoughts are as follows:

"Here's my thoughts on Shimano Dura-Ace chains -- they work great, but they are the *weakest* pieces of **** going. I've gone through 4 on my road bike, never getting more than 1500 miles on one before it stretches out. I've heard this complaint by a lot of other people as well, from lightweight racer-boys to heavy clydesdales.

The reason the SRAM chain is noisier is because it has less side-to-side flex than the DA chain. This side-to-side flex of the DA chain makes it quieter, so it's happer crossing over gears. But it's this side-to-side flex that makes the DA chain wear so damn fast.

Bottom line - don't worry about getting more rivets. You won't need them because your chain will be a pile of goo before too long. I'm also very leery of removing Shimano chains at all. I had one break on my mountain bike at the point where I removed and reinstalled it (thankfully SRAM power links fit Shimano chains or I would have been screwed)...and ever since then I've never removed a Shimano chain from a bike unless it is going to be replaced.

Next time you are in the market for a chain, try KMC. I just got a KMC DXC-18 (or something like that). It was actually branded at Performance Bike as a "Forte by KMC" 10-spd chain. $25 cheap. 210g light. And it's actually quieter than the DA chain it replaced. Plus it has a removeable link similar to SRAM. Tastes great. Less filling. How can you beat that??"


----------



## kneejerk

Tschai said:


> My pal Doug's thoughts are as follows:
> 
> 
> The reason the SRAM chain is noisier is because it has less side-to-side flex than the DA chain. This side-to-side flex of the DA chain makes it quieter, so it's happer crossing over gears. But it's this side-to-side flex that makes the DA chain wear so damn fast.


From what I have seen in the hollow pin SRAM chains, they have more side flex (bend) than the Shimano resulting in poorer shift performance with the SRAM chain. The stiffer Shimano (less bend) makes the chain move from cog to cog, gear to gear better. 

Shimano link pins work well if you install them very carefully, using grease in the process and making sure you are not reinstalling into a link that had a previous link pin.

How about Wipperman chains?


----------



## Tschai

kneejerk said:


> From what I have seen in the hollow pin SRAM chains, they have more side flex (bend) than the Shimano resulting in poorer shift performance with the SRAM chain. The stiffer Shimano (less bend) makes the chain move from cog to cog, gear to gear better.
> 
> Shimano link pins work well if you install them very carefully, using grease in the process and making sure you are not reinstalling into a link that had a previous link pin.
> 
> How about Wipperman chains?


Interesting. The opposite of what my pal said. Anyway, all I know is that I will not be using the Sram chain again either because they have more flex or less flex. It is all about the flex. 

Wipperman chains are expensive, no?


----------



## kneejerk

I've read some bad things about the Wipperman chains recently. I don't think I will be going there. I don't like the "link" system of the KMC or Sram setups all that much either. I will likely be trying an Ultegra chain next, although all the Shimano chains looks very similar for 10 speed. The Dura Ace seems a little smoother, but I wonder if it suffers longevity because of it.


----------



## ejprez

I've used Dura ace, 1090r, and KMC DX-10 on my force drivetrain. They all worked great to me. I think the KMC is the best bang for the buck. Their top of the line X10 SL is a few buck more than the 1090r, is lighter and comes in a ti-nitride coating. I used ultegra 10 as well on my drivetrain, it worked good up until about 1500 miles, put a new KMC on and it was nice and quiet. Riding in rain a few times really makes a chain not quiet no matter what brand, you can never get it the same again. You have to really lube it, but then clean it more since more road dirt is attracted to the lube.
I upgraded to red and use the KMC and shifts just fine to me, but some people are more picky than others. The DX 10 chains are dirt cheap, 5.88mm wide, Dura ace are cheap too when compared to the top Sram chains, Costs a bit less than a 1070 chain. Go figure it's cheaper to train on a Dura ace chain.


----------



## kneejerk

good points ejprez!......... 
I hear the KMC works well on Campy too.
The thing that drifts me away from them is the connecting link. They seem to wear quicker than the chain. But, then I guess I could just change it from time to time!

Some of the Shimano chains are made by KMC, not sure of the higher end one's.


----------



## epicxt

*Just put on a new SRAM chain this weekend...*

I can't remember if it was the 1090, 1091, or the 1092, but I've been pleasantly surprised. After last weekend's race on wet roads it is still surprisingly quiet and smooth. I've always been a fan of campy chains, but managed to destroy my last one a few weekends ago while riding in terrible conditions for 2 days (it only had 1800 miles on it). 

I had this chain sitting in my spare parts que, so I cleaned up the cassette and chainrings and installed it. Hopefully it will prove to be plenty durable as well as being quiet.

-epicxt


----------



## jimy

I am now using a 1090R sram chain and it is a great chain. I had a wipperman chain on that the shop equipped my new bike at the buildup and it was a piece of crap.It was extremely noisy and was loaded with metal film after every ride. Appx. 25 to 50 mi.The 1090R is the only chain I would ever use ona sram gruppo again.
jimbo


----------



## jimy

I am now using a 1090R sram chain and it is a great chain. I had a wipperman chain on that the shop equipped my new bike at the buildup and it was a piece of crap.It was extremely noisy and was loaded with metal film after every ride. Appx. 25 to 50 mi.The 1090R is the only chain I would ever use ona sram gruppo again.
jimbo


----------



## orlin03

I just broke my 1090R chain today on an out of the saddle climb. It was very frustrating. I expected the master link gave way (since I reused it once), but it was not the case; on of the links just came apart while I was hammering it down, and I nearly wrecked (got a nasty ball tap). The chain only had about 400 road miles on it (plus a few miles on the trainer, but not many and not hard), and I kept it well oiled and clean. I know my power went up with my winter cross-bike riding, but I don't think it should have snapped like that! It was a good ride too...


----------



## TedH

+1 on KMC. Very quiet, very functional on both my road and CX bikes with no issues. Will have to look into the Performance ones; had no idea KMC was their private label. FWIW, Katie Compton switched to them b/c the other chains she had were giving her trouble in CX. I'm of the opinion that if it works for CX, it's probably extra-safe for road use.


----------



## prschatt

What is the difference betweent the performane "Forte" KMC chain ($19.99) at 228 grams and the KMC X10SL, which I guess SL=Super Light at 240 grams and ~$60.00?


----------



## BunnV

*Wax type lube not recommended on 1090R*



Tomb2100 said:


> the chain is a bit on the noisy side in the middle rear cogs, kind of a grinding feeling through the pedals, but set up of the rear mech is spot on and it all shifts well :thumbsup:


I know this tread is old but I had the same experience with my FORCE group using the 1090R chain. It was noisy, with a grinding feeling that was simply not acceptable. I readjusted my derailleurs and cleaned and re-lubed the chain. The noise did not go away and in fact got worse. 

Recently I was out on a Sunday ride lamenting my embarrassingly loud drivetrain when I rode through some water on the road. All of a sudden, my chain got quiet and stayed that way for a couple of miles before the grinding sound came back. 

That was when I realized that I probably should try a different lube before I give up on the chain like I was contemplating. 

I cleaned off the wax type lube I was using (White Lightning) with Simple Green and hot water. Then I dried the chain and lubed it with Boeshield T-9. OMG! Problem solved. 
Now the chain is smooth and quiet running like I expected from the start. It shifts perfectly too. I had switched from Dura Ace to SRAM Force and the noisy chain was the only thing I regretted about the change. Now I'm completely happy with the whole package...performance, looks, weight and the fact that I see far fewer SRAM equipped bikes out on the road. 

Double Tap rules! :thumbsup:


----------



## mtpisgah

*I get noise with a KMC*

I switched from a DA drivetrain to Red and love it except for the noise. I am using the X-SL KMC chain. When in the 53 and any where on the cassette, it is silent. When I am in the 39 and anywhere on the cassette, it makes a lot of noise. The front derailleur is not rubbing, the rear derailleur is aligned. Any thoughts?


----------



## ejprez

I think the rings in general are a tad on the loud side. I used a KMC DX10 on it and now am using the 1090R. Unless it's my imagination it seems the 1090R is a little more quiet. Like I just said though, the rings are a source of the noise too. I had sram force with the force rings and used the 1070, ultegra and DX10 chain and they ran quiet. Plus I noticed my red rings flex more on the down stroke, I think due to the lightweight and thiness. I may be wrong about all this, but I'm not imagining it at the same time, something is going on.


----------



## Campbelllevy

I just read a review in Bicycle Magazine saying that the best chain they found for Sram Red is a wipperman connex...Might give it a go...


----------



## BunnV

Campbelllevy said:


> I just read a review in Bicycle Magazine saying that the best chain they found for Sram Red is a wipperman connex...Might give it a go...


I saw the same thing in Road Bike Action magazine (Sep/Oct 2008 page 87), but I think the giant Wippermann ad on page 121 may have something to do with that....:skep:


----------



## Campbelllevy

Yeah, you may be correct, I'm a public relations guy, so I know all about piggy-backing advertorial copy with PR...But, Wipperman does make a fine chain...


----------



## Moon

For my bike (I run Red), the Wipperman 10S1 snagged a thumbs down due to poor shifting performance -> noisy, no good balance between going up and down the cassette quickly. Swapped out for a 1090R and got skip-free shifting and reduced noise.

However, after less than 350 miles on the 1090R, I was on a ride, and the chain kept falling off my big chainring. A few miles later, I blew a pin while climbing out of the saddle (it was not near the Powerlock). I put the chain back together using a Connex link, and it seems to be back to normal. Rattles my confidence somewhat, though - at 135 lb, it's not like I lay down mega wattage...

On a plus note, I can finally justify carrying a chain tool.


----------



## jmlapoint

I've had very good performance from Shimano Dura-Ace.
Need to keep clean and lubed.


----------



## lalahsghost

So weird. I wasn't even looking for a thread about this, and here it is. I have been using Epic-Ride White Lightning, and it seems I cannot keep my pc-1090 chain clean, even after every ride doing a wipe lube wipe method. I thought I was crazy that my 7-speed bike sounds smoother than brand new '09 SRAM Rival. I might just have to clean up the chain and go to a thinner, wet lube again.


----------



## twain

*7800 vs 7900 vs SRAM 1090 chain?*

You have to hand it to Shimano for making drivetrains work so smoothly while being so easy to dial in.

SRAM Red is definitely harder to dial in.
Regarding chains--I have "all red" on my road bike; 1090 chain with the powerdome 11-26 cassette. 
Definitely noisy.
On my tri bike, I have D/A bar end shifters, D/A 7800 rear d, and FSA front d with Shimano 7800 chain. It is much more quiet; "shimano-like".
Has any one tried the new Shimano 7900 chain with SRAM?

I'm thinking about switching to either the 7800 or that. 

BTW, my LBS, the awesome Calmar Cycles, says that SRAM doesn't make their chain directional; Shimano does (installed the correct way, they last longer). I also read a blurb in cyclingnews that indicated that "2009" SRAM chains are better than 2008. Is that so--and if so, how the heck could you tell the difference?

thanks


----------



## BunnV

twain said:
 

> .....BTW, my LBS, the awesome Calmar Cycles, says that SRAM doesn't make their chain directional; Shimano does (installed the correct way, they last longer)...


Really?

The chain is directional?

I just installed a DA chain on my SRAM Force equipped bike. Like you said, it's much quieter than the 1090R chain I replaced. 

I don't remember anything in the paperwork for the DA Chain that indicated it is directional. I just looked at it again...there are no directional arrows. 

The links are stamped with "VIA", "Dura Ace", "HG", etc in a random fashion i.e.: some are right side up and some are upside down depending on where the link happens to be (above the stay or below the stay). How can you tell if it's on in the correct direction?


----------



## twain

From Park Tool website
"The design of the Shimano ® chain requires that the connecting rivet leads the chain plate as it engages the sprockets. For Shimano ®, feed the outer plate end of the chain onto the pulleys."
In other words, the "male" end should face forward with the "female" end pulling as you pedal.
http://www.parktool.com/repair/readhowto.asp?id=25

So what DA chain did you use; 7800 or 7900 (new) series?


----------



## Rick from Lafayette

I've racked up about 2,000 miles on my Wipperman chain (SRAM Red gruppo) without any shifting issues. I can't imagine being able to improve the shifting on my bike any better. Also, no chain wear as of yet. When the time comes I'll probably replace the chain with another Wipperman and not even give it a second thought.
I don't know how the Wipperman issue got started but I've seen a lot more issues with other brands (just on this post alone).
All said, if it works on your bike, don't fix it.


----------



## BunnV

*You are correct!*



twain said:


> From Park Tool website
> "The design of the Shimano ® chain requires that the connecting rivet leads the chain plate as it engages the sprockets. For Shimano ®, feed the outer plate end of the chain onto the pulleys."
> In other words, the "male" end should face forward with the "female" end pulling as you pedal.
> http://www.parktool.com/repair/readhowto.asp?id=25
> 
> So what DA chain did you use; 7800 or 7900 (new) series?


OK, so you really had me curious now! I got out the paper work for the DA chain
(it's a CN-7801) and it says "...As illustrated in Fig. A, we strongly recommend to set the connecting pin in the hole of the outer link on the front side in the direction of travel. The chain's level of strength is enhanced compared to the method in Fig B" 

You are right. :thumbsup: 

I compared the Fig A to how I did it and It appears that I installed it correctly. Thanks!


----------



## kourou

kneejerk said:


> I'm in for trying a new chain. My Park wear tool is telling me I have 0.75mm wear on my Dura-Ace chain after some 2,200 miles. I lube my chain almost religiously. I am likely going to wait for the 1.0mm wear side on the Park tool to drop in before changing it. Any suggestions? I was thinking of trying the Ultegra next? or a KMC (although I don't care for the quick disconnect links, seem to be a weakness, I prefer a press in pin ala Shimano)


My understanding is that the tool is supposed to indicate 0.75mm wear as the best time to replace the chain. If you do it then you should get 3 chains top every cassette. No idea who came up with that though.

If you wait till you have 1.0mm wear, in theory you need to change the cassette too, though god only knows how they work that out.

If you use expensive chains and cheap cassettes, the logic above may not apply of course!

Check quite a few different links - my SRAM Red drivetrain with a 1090 chain has less than 0.75 in some places, more than 0.75 in others and more than 1.0mm in others. Only just realised as previously had only checked one link at a time. I may now need to change cassette too which is annoying and weird - you'd think the chain would wear evenly given how many times it goes around...


----------



## twain

*Consensus: Dura Ace is best?*

Looks like there are:
7 postitive reco's for Dura Ace
4 positive for KMC
3 positive for SRAM
2 positive for Campy

And
6 negatives for SRAM
Wipperman is a wash

Dura Ace seems to wear out faster though.


----------



## rhauft

twain said:


> Looks like there are:
> 7 postitive reco's for Dura Ace
> 4 positive for KMC
> 3 positive for SRAM
> 2 positive for Campy
> 
> And
> 6 negatives for SRAM
> Wipperman is a wash
> 
> Dura Ace seems to wear out faster though.


Add one more :thumbsup: for the 1090R (Sram)
In my 30+ years of competitive road racing, I've had countless Campy & Shimano equipped bikes. Adjusted properly my current Sram Red equipped road & tt bikes are the smoothest & best shifting bikes I've experienced. IMHO YMMV


----------



## nHurD

I just switched to a DA 7900 chain a few days ago. It's much quieter than the old SRAM chain I had on it, but when I'm in either my 17,19. or 21, it makes a clicking noise for a couple of revolutions, then the noise disappears. My LBS recommended that I replace my cassette with the new DA cassette, but I'm not that convinced....


----------



## -dustin

I've had mixed luck running D/A chains with SRAM drivetrains...to the point that if someone's running a SRAM D/T, they get a SRAM chain. For people that trust what I say and want flawless performance, I recommend Shimano cassettes and chains, regardless of shifter/ derailleur setup. 

Another note, 7800 chains aren't directional. This comes from a former Shimano employee. The 7900 chains are directional, though.

Last note, I hate KMC chains and will not recommend them. Bugs the crap out of me that Cannondales are now coming with KMC chains OEM.


----------



## lucer0

I run Ultegra chain and cassette with Rival derailleurs and Force shifters on a DA crankset. Works great, completely quiet and good shifting.


----------



## twain

My SRAM 1090R with Red set up seemed to be getting noiser.
And after reading this article 
_"Saxo Bank started out the year on Shimano Dura-Ace components but recently made a switch to SRAM's top-end Red package including their quick-action DoubleTap shift/brake levers, ceramic bearing-equipped rear derailleur, ultralight PowerDome cassette and PC-1090 chain. Cancellara apparently prefers the front derailleur from the second-tier Force group for its stiffer steel cage, however, and after that unfortunate - and very public - mishap on the Koppenberg, Saxo Bank mechanics were seen swapping the team bikes to Dura-Ace 7900 chains the following Monday."_

I threw down for a 7900 chain today. Installation was easy; the shimano quick link is very easy to install. Way easier than SRAM, Wipperman, or KNC chains. Quick ride around the block and it's silent. We'll see how it goes on "bike to work day" tomorrow.


----------



## BunnV

twain said:


> My SRAM 1090R with Red set up seemed to be getting noiser.
> And after reading this article
> _"Saxo Bank started out the year on Shimano Dura-Ace components but recently made a switch to SRAM's top-end Red package including their quick-action DoubleTap shift/brake levers, ceramic bearing-equipped rear derailleur, ultralight PowerDome cassette and PC-1090 chain. Cancellara apparently prefers the front derailleur from the second-tier Force group for its stiffer steel cage, however, and after that unfortunate - and very public - mishap on the Koppenberg, Saxo Bank mechanics were seen swapping the team bikes to Dura-Ace 7900 chains the following Monday."_
> 
> I threw down for a 7900 chain today. Installation was easy; the shimano quick link is very easy to install. Way easier than SRAM, Wipperman, or KNC chains. Quick ride around the block and it's silent. We'll see how it goes on "bike to work day" tomorrow.


I have a full Force group with a DA 7900 chain for the same reasons. Perfection. :thumbsup:


----------



## mimason

I just replaced my SRAM 1090 chain with the 7801 DA model on my bike equipped with SRAM RED. I am pleased with the decision after a 60 mile hard group ride today.

I notice NO shifting performance issues and the drivetrains is marginally quieter even though that really does not matter to me.


----------



## twain

Lance is using SRAM Red on his TT bike with...7900 Dura Ace chain as well
http://cyclingnews.com/tech/2009/probikes/?id=lance_armstrong_trek_equinox_giro09


----------



## alias33

I've got a ultegra chain on my force groupo and it works grrreaat!


----------



## rhauft

*KMC X10SL Gold*

Installed a X10SL Gold last week and I've put a couple hundred K on it. First impressions are very good, quieter than PC10R and excellent shifting action. Wondering about the durability since this chain is very highly machined. The gold titanium nitride coating is very bling.


----------



## treehugger

rhauft said:


> Installed a X10SL Gold last week and I've put a couple hundred K on it. First impressions are very good, quieter than PC10R and excellent shifting action. Wondering about the durability since this chain is very highly machined. The gold titanium nitride coating is very bling.


Same here. Have over 600 miles on my X10SL Gold and no problems. Smooth and major bling


----------



## 007david

Another vote for the X10SL. 1500 miles and feels and looks like new.


----------



## alias33

rhauft said:


> Installed a X10SL Gold last week and I've put a couple hundred K on it. First impressions are very good, quieter than PC10R and excellent shifting action. Wondering about the durability since this chain is very highly machined. The gold titanium nitride coating is very bling.


better shifiting then a shimano?


----------



## rhauft

alias33 said:


> better shifiting then a shimano?


500K - so far, so good, still very smooth and quiet... and it gets a lot of attention due to the 'bling'.


----------

