# Chas...Help...Look - Frame Comparison???



## uscsig51 (May 7, 2006)

Chas-

I found the following information (www.cyclesuperstore.ie website under the Look frames) regarding the frame stiffness for each frame and was wondering were the 586 fits in? The "stiffness" (N/mm) from low range to high range appears to be as follows: 585 Origin, 595 Origin, 585 Ultra, 595 Ultra.

Frame Bottom Bracket Rear Triangle Head Tube

585 165 65 95

595 170 70 100

585 Ultra 180 75 115

595 Ultra 185 80 120

So far everything I've read makes the 586 out to be a climbing bike while the 595 is a sprinter's bike? If one already has a 585, how do you decide which one to add between the 586 and 595 without buying both?:thumbsup:


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## toonraid (Sep 19, 2006)

While you wait for a reply from chas here is my 2cents;

586 is a bit of an odd frame in the look range in the way that it doesn't fall within their ladder of frames - When it was first released I read somewhere that Look represented it as a cross between 585 & 595 offering 585 comfort with 595's performance, but the design points towards a road/TT cross or a Tri frame as it has a shorter top tube & head tube and also boasts a special headset that locks from the top of HT therefore enabling you to change handlebars for TT bars without worrying about adjusting headset bearings. One of the guys on this forum has had both was of the opinion that 586 is not as stiff as 595's BB I would also be inclined to think that the shortened head tube would also take some of the stiffness out of that area too.

Based on the above I find it hard to place the 586 at any specific sector - Its light weight should point it towards being a good climber and the HSC6forks (same as 595) should help coming down on the other side but the Geometry is rather odd for a road frame - the special headset and shortened HT & TT would suggest its a good dual purpose Road / TT or Tri frame but the BB is not as stiff as 595's .......... so what is it?


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## chas (Aug 10, 2006)

uscsig51 said:


> Chas-
> 
> I found the following information (www.cyclesuperstore.ie website under the Look frames) regarding the frame stiffness for each frame and was wondering were the 586 fits in? The "stiffness" (N/mm) from low range to high range appears to be as follows: 585 Origin, 595 Origin, 585 Ultra, 595 Ultra.
> 
> ...


The 586 falls between the 585 and 595 in terms of stiffness. The BB stiffness is similar to the 585, while the front end feels very similar to the 595. Some of that is due to the headtube area being slightly stiffer, and some of it is due to the HSC6 fork which uses an oversized 1 1/4" lower headset bearing. Comfort-wise, I think the 586 is on par with the 585 - perhaps even a little bit smoother. 

If you're trying to decide between a 586 and a 595, it would help to know a little more about you - riding style, height/weight, frame size, what you like/don't like about your 585. 

*[email protected]*


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## uscsig51 (May 7, 2006)

Chas-

I'm 6'-1 1/2" and 205lbs. I use my 585 primarily for mid to long (50-100 miles) training type rides as training to my triathlon racing.

I like the 585 for it's smoothness and confidence descending. When I purchased it in 2006 I compared it to the Orbea Orca, Specialized S-Works Roubaix and Tarmac, Scott CR1, Trek Madone; and nothing else felt as good. I kept going back to the 585 and enjoyed it each time. 

Now that I have been on it for a while, I wish it was a little stiffer in the bottom bracket for acceleration and climbing. A few questions, how much stiffer is the 595 Origin to the 585 Origin (from the numbers it appears very little)? Should I look at the 585 Ultra or 595 Ultra, how much "smoothness"/comfort do you sacrifice in either of these frames for stiffness?

Thanks!!!


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## uscsig51 (May 7, 2006)

Chas-

Any thoughts? I was able to test ride a Super Six, while not maybe as "smooth" as the 585, the S6 felt like it had better power transfer and went up the hills easier. This may be a replacement for the 585, unless I can test out a 595 or 585/595 Ultra. 

Any thoughts on Tour Magazine's Frame Test Review from last spring which included both of the mentioned frames? Seems like the Super Six scored higher than the 595 Ultra?


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## Johnnysmooth (Jun 10, 2004)

Go with the 595, noticeably stiffer than the 586


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## Lance#8in09 (Sep 13, 2008)

uscsig51 said:


> Chas-
> 
> I found the following information (www.cyclesuperstore.ie website under the Look frames) regarding the frame stiffness for each frame and was wondering were the 586 fits in? The "stiffness" (N/mm) from low range to high range appears to be as follows: 585 Origin, 595 Origin, 585 Ultra, 595 Ultra.
> 
> ...


Regarding the 595 versus the 595 Ultra, the extra stiffness of the Ultra would likely make zero difference for any non sponsored rider. Thor Hushovd won the final stage of the 2006 TDF riding a Large size 595 Origin frame and he had no complaints about riding that frame. I'm not even sure he rides the Ultra version now, that version was not available yet at the 2006 TDF. If a guy with that much power (think insane power compared to us mortals) could get by with a 595 Origin in the TDF, its hard to imagine recreational riders finding it or any of the other Look frames in the lineup "flexy" which have stiffness numbers anywhere near the 595. The chart indicates that all the stiffness numbers are fairly similiar. They are different, but not by much and in fact both the 585 and 595 Ultra numbers are stiffer than Thor 06' TDF frame. 

I think a lot of "felt" flex by recreational riders is more imagination than anything else, and if an Origin was adequate for Thor to take the final stage of the 06' Tour on, well, it is what it is.


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## uscsig51 (May 7, 2006)

If that's the case, than it seems like the 586 offers the best of the 585 and 595; and would be a better choice than the 595?

I've heard/read that the 586 is smoother than a 585 and a little stiffer in the bottom bracket area, but maybe not as stiff as the 595 Origin? I would assume this is where the difference in chainstays comes into play? Seems like the 586 would be a better training type bike for long rides and climbing, while the 595 may be better suited for racing crits and sprints?


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## greybicycle (Nov 20, 2008)

*595 versa 586*

i have a 595 and best riding pas has a 586.
both in XS size, both on super record 11 and mavic ultimate wheelset.
586 is much smoother but 595 is just really sweet and the graphics look way better on the 595.
now besides the frame difference, wheelset and even tire/tubular air pressure can make a big difference. for ex: i weight a mere 115 pounds and ride with 9 bars rear/8 bars front on my victoria 21 mm. than 595 is pretty smooth even on long rides. yet riding the same set up with 9 front and 10 rear make a reasonnably smooth to a harsh ride...
now 595 has no equivalent going down hill, man you may ride hands in the air at 40 mph...
also the more you power the better. to me, at nearly 50 and 30 years of riding, 595 is the best bike i ever owned, to certain aspect i rediscover this sport again.
595 is a real blast and a true challenge.
try.


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## SUB160 (Feb 19, 2006)

*586 -- The comfortable racing bike?*

Hmm ... I raced a Tarmac last year ... good bike, no major flaws, a little boring. I wanted something that handled a little quicker and was a more unique.

I picked up a 585 Ultra for a great price and have ridden it for about 1000 miles in the last 5 weeks. Very firm. Loves smooth roads. Quick. Tight. A fantastic crit bike ... no fluff ... put the hammer down and go! It can be a little rough on the chip-seal we have so much of here in Virginia at the end of a long ride.

I'm 5' 9" and 152 lbs ... I always do best in longer, more selective races with some climbing in them ... sounds like the 586, right? So being the nut case that I am, I picked up a used 586 frame and got it built up last night and rode it hard for a bit today.

OK ... well, this is different! The bike handles much like the 585 Ultra but it is really, really comfortable. The rear end of the bike soaks up the road chatter. It is going to take some getting used to ... it feels like you are much better off turning circles rather than mashing on the pedals ... at least during a smooth steady effort. It's not at all what I am used to feeling.

So after just cruising along for a little while, I did a brief workout ... 4 x 1 minute intervals, 1 x 5 minute interval, 15 short sprints ... nothing too crazy, it's November!!! It felt fine ... like a race bike should. Whew! The bike felt good under power. 

Honestly, It's going to take a while to sort this one out! My first ride on the 586 seems to explain why this bike is hard to describe ... it's a bit different than the standard super firm riding racing bike.

-John


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