# what wheels for my new gravel bike?



## Henry Chinaski (Feb 3, 2004)

Need 142x12 thru axle, disc brakes and tubeless. Would like to keep 'em under $500 but would consider spending more. What do you guys recommend?


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## cdhbrad (Feb 18, 2003)

These are $570 now: November Bicycles: Race smart. - FSW3 I don't have a disc brake bike but November has a good reputation for its wheels.


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## Srode (Aug 19, 2012)

cdhbrad said:


> These are $570 now: November Bicycles: Race smart. - FSW3 I don't have a disc brake bike but November has a good reputation for its wheels.


This ^^^^^^^


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## bikerector (Oct 31, 2012)

I've had very good experiences with velocity aileron rims built up by velocity or elsewhere. The specs would be pretty close to the November wheel above.


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## Henry Chinaski (Feb 3, 2004)

Ok, so how are these better than XT hubs built 3x with DT spokes and something like the Hed Belgium Plus rims? And if I went with Stans or Mavic rims I'd be under $400 for the set.

https://www.coloradocyclist.com/hed-belgium-plus-clincher-disc-rim


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## cdhbrad (Feb 18, 2003)

If you can build your own wheels.......build whatever suits your needs and budget. I assumed you wanted prebuilt wheels.


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## changingleaf (Aug 20, 2009)

Another nice option is a custom built wheelset with DT 350 hubs and DT Swiss R460 rims. Both are excellent and the set will come in under $500 with round spokes and a little over with bladed spokes.


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## November Dave (Dec 7, 2011)

Thanks for the endorsements. 

The XT-based wheels seem like a fairly good deal, actually, subject to a few things. First, if you have a 12mm front axle, you can't use XT hubs. They only come in 32h lacing, which may or may not be a thing for you. The standard build is with straight gauge spokes, and I'd 100% recommend that you get at least double butted spokes instead of those. 

Crests are good rims so long as you have no plans to use anything basically smaller than a cx tire on them. We do a fair number of builds with Crests for 40mm gravel tire type of stuff. If you plan to use road tires on the wheels, don't use Crests, though Grails are a great choice in that case. CC will do a set of Grails with DT350s, which are fine hubs, but again you're limited to 32/32 lacing and you should definitely get double butted spokes. We do a lot of Grail builds and they are very good rims.

As for pricing, I don't know what CC's costs are but they must be lower than ours. We simply can't make the point often enough that our prices are the minimum that work. Right now we have intro pricing on the FSWs and free shipping on wheels in December, and you know to be 100% frank I kind of hate having to do even that. It's just the lowest demand part of the year, and seemingly everyone else is doing bigger discounts (most have much more margin to give back in the first place) so we need to do something just to have any volume at this time of year. But we put a ton into every aspect of the build and customer experience, and that has costs which have to be covered. 

But while we have good solutions for everyone, and I'd say we very often have the best solution for specific things, we can't be and aren't the lowest cost solution every time. Yours may be such a case.


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## Henry Chinaski (Feb 3, 2004)

cdhbrad said:


> If you can build your own wheels.......build whatever suits your needs and budget. I assumed you wanted prebuilt wheels.


I've almost always built my own wheels but I'm getting lazier in my old age.  Colorado does a decent job. Maybe a little high on tension but...


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## Henry Chinaski (Feb 3, 2004)

November Dave said:


> Thanks for the endorsements.
> 
> The XT-based wheels seem like a fairly good deal, actually, subject to a few things. First, if you have a 12mm front axle, you can't use XT hubs. They only come in 32h lacing, which may or may not be a thing for you. The standard build is with straight gauge spokes, and I'd 100% recommend that you get at least double butted spokes instead of those.
> 
> ...


Thanks for the info! I need to go back and figure out what front hub. This is a custom steel Rock Lobster gravel frame with 142 x 12 thru axles so you may be right it's 12 in front. This disc stuff is new to me.

The rim weight on those seems a bit high at 485 when Mavics are around 460 (I don't care so much about hub weight). I'd likely be using Clement X'Plor MSO in 700 x 40. Should have clearance up to 43.

Thanks!

edit: oh and 14/15s for sure. Brass nipples cause AL nipples can start to creak in my experience


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## Lombard (May 8, 2014)

November Dave said:


> The XT-based wheels seem like a fairly good deal, actually, subject to a few things. First, if you have a 12mm front axle, you can't use XT hubs.



I never knew this. I went to Shimano's site and sure enough, all their thru-axle hubs are either 14 or 15mm. So if I get the gravel bike I'm looking at right now (12mm thru), that means I can't build a wheelset with Shimano hubs. You would think Shimano would want a piece of this market.

What's interesting though, is that Shimano sells 12mm thru-axles by themselves.


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## Henry Chinaski (Feb 3, 2004)

ok Paul just told me steel fork with 15 mm front


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## Lombard (May 8, 2014)

Henry Chinaski said:


> The rim weight on those seems a bit high at 485 when Mavics are around 460 (I don't care so much about hub weight). I'd likely be using Clement X'Plor MSO in 700 x 40. Should have clearance up to 43.



The HED Pluses are better rims (albeit more expensive) than Mavics. And the difference in weight is insignificant, especially with the tires you will be using.


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## changingleaf (Aug 20, 2009)

Note, DT 350 6-bolt hubs do come in 28h Front and rear. Now there's also DT 350 Centerlock hubs in 24h or 28h front and rear. I'm building up a set of 24 hole soon with Boyd Altamont rims, but the price is in the $700 range with the more expensive rims and after converting the hubs to QR.


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## November Dave (Dec 7, 2011)

Henry Chinaski said:


> The rim weight on those seems a bit high at 485 when Mavics are around 460 (I don't care so much about hub weight). I'd likely be using Clement X'Plor MSO in 700 x 40. Should have clearance up to 43.


I'd say the opposite, given that the Mavic is both narrower and significantly shallower, and will be less stiff. And claimed weight is... well... if it matters, check it. But in any case 25g is pretty small potatoes. You'd never ever notice it.



changingleaf said:


> Note, DT 350 6-bolt hubs do come in 28h Front and rear. Now there's also DT 350 Centerlock hubs in 24h or 28h front and rear.


But they aren't options at Colorado Cyclist in the builds OP is looking at.


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## Lombard (May 8, 2014)

Deleted.


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## Mike T. (Feb 3, 2004)

November Dave said:


> Thanks for the endorsements.
> 
> The XT-based wheels seem like a fairly good deal, actually, subject to a few things. First, if you have a 12mm front axle, you can't use XT hubs. They only come in 32h lacing, which may or may not be a thing for you. The standard build is with straight gauge spokes, and I'd 100% recommend that you get at least double butted spokes instead of those.
> 
> ...


What a guy. You admit to Henry that you can't compete with CC on price and that it's probable that you won't sell him a set of wheels but *STILL* you stay around and give Henry some good advice. Take a bow November Dave. I hope you're blushing.


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## Henry Chinaski (Feb 3, 2004)

Mike T. said:


> What a guy. You admit to Henry that you can't compete with CC on price and that it's probable that you won't sell him a set of wheels but *STILL* you stay around and give Henry some good advice. Take a bow November Dave. I hope you're blushing.


LOL I don't even know what happened there. Glad to see Mike T is still around. RBR has been seeming like more of a ghost town lately.


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## Enoch562 (May 13, 2010)

If it is a true Gravel bike look for the widest rim you can find, especially if you plan on running 40s. My rims are SL25, 25 external and 20 internal. My next set will be even wider.


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## Henry Chinaski (Feb 3, 2004)

Enoch562 said:


> If it is a true Gravel bike look for the widest rim you can find, especially if you plan on running 40s. My rims are SL25, 25 external and 20 internal. My next set will be even wider.


Frame can fit up to about 43s










Thoughts on Mavic XM 819s?


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## Roland44 (Mar 21, 2013)

cdhbrad said:


> These are $570 now: November Bicycles: Race smart. - FSW3 I don't have a disc brake bike but November has a good reputation for its wheels.


+1 on this, definitely worth the money!


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## Mike T. (Feb 3, 2004)

Henry Chinaski said:


> LOL I don't even know what happened there. Glad to see Mike T is still around. RBR has been seeming like more of a ghost town lately.


Oh I'm still here (50x daily for the past 18 years) and unless I get kicked out or kick the bucket, I'll be staying.


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## Enoch562 (May 13, 2010)

Henry Chinaski said:


> Frame can fit up to about 43s
> 
> 
> Thoughts on Mavic XM 819s?


Inside width is 19mm. I THINK that rim uses Anchors to hold the nipples. I think there are better choices. 

Your springing for a custom built frame with a ton of tire clearance, dont skimp on wheels. Get you a nice custom built wheels. THe SL25 rim has proven to be super solid for gravel and it handles 28+ road tires easily. Sets up tubeless very well.

I'm prolly going to try the DT XM 421 on my next build. I thought about even going with a Flow Mk's, but these woud be strickly for gravel tires only.

FWIW, the wheels that November Dave posted have some solid rims on them ( I've had 2 sets) and it looks to be good price.


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## masont (Feb 6, 2010)

Henry Chinaski said:


> ok Paul just told me steel fork with 15 mm front


steel fork and you're worried about 25g in rim weight?


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## November Dave (Dec 7, 2011)

Mike T. said:


> I hope you're blushing.


I am now, thanks. But without being disingenuous, isn't what I did what people like me are supposed to do here (and elsewhere)? One of the things I try to do is to answer all the "why" of any recommendation I make - I can't stand "you should use this" recommends without a full "why" backup. CXWrench, though often unvarnished in a way I might sometimes like to be but with 0% anonymity I can't be, usually does a particularly good job of this as well. Be the change you wish to see and all that. 

Scheldecross is on this morning.


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## Mike T. (Feb 3, 2004)

November Dave said:


> Scheldecross is on this morning.


I'll be watching!


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## Lombard (May 8, 2014)

Enoch562 said:


> If it is a true Gravel bike look for the widest rim you can find, especially if you plan on running 40s. My rims are SL25, 25 external and 20 internal. My next set will be even wider.


WTB ST's are available in both 23mm and 25mm INTERNAL width: ST | WTB The 23mm version comes standard on the Jamis Renegade Exploit: renegadeexploit


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## Henry Chinaski (Feb 3, 2004)

masont said:


> steel fork and you're worried about 25g in rim weight?


I'm trying to figure out why I'm being told to spend more on wheels with rims that weigh more. 

"FSW3 wheels are built with 31mm deep, 24mm wide, 19mm internal width tubeless ready alloy rims with a matte black finish. 9.75mm brake track height. 485g per rim. Manufactured by Kinlin."

These rims seem to be heavier and also less wide on the internal measurement than the HED for example. So why are they so great? I've been building wheels for 30 years so I don't buy most of the wheel hype. But discs and tubeless are totally new to me, which is why I came here for help.

Competitive cyclist is blowing these out but looks like I'd need convert the front hub, which doesn't seem so hard. So maybe that is a solid choice for the $$$? 20 internal rim width

Stan's NoTubes Iron Cross Pro Disc Wheelset - 3.30Ti Hubs | Competitive Cyclist


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## Enoch562 (May 13, 2010)

If you can get some Hed rims you should be golden.


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## Srode (Aug 19, 2012)

Henry Chinaski said:


> Competitive cyclist is blowing these out but looks like I'd need convert the front hub, which doesn't seem so hard. So maybe that is a solid choice for the $$$? 20 internal rim width
> 
> Stan's NoTubes Iron Cross Pro Disc Wheelset - 3.30Ti Hubs | Competitive Cyclist


Stans wheels don't play well with all tires when trying to set up tubeless from what I hear. I believe you are likely more limited on tire pressure too.


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## Henry Chinaski (Feb 3, 2004)

Enoch562 said:


> If you can get some Hed rims you should be golden.


Belgium Plus seem good but a bit pricey, plus not a huge fan of no eyelets.


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## Henry Chinaski (Feb 3, 2004)

Lombard said:


> WTB ST's are available in both 23mm and 25mm INTERNAL width: ST | WTB The 23mm version comes standard on the Jamis Renegade Exploit: renegadeexploit


Checking out the WTB options now. Looks like Santa Cruz specs the WTB Asym i19 on the Stigmata, but that is pretty narrow.


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## Lombard (May 8, 2014)

Henry Chinaski said:


> Belgium Plus seem good but a bit pricey, plus not a huge fan of no eyelets.


There is a good reason those don't have eyelets. They don't need them. You usually only see eyelets on shallow rims.


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## masont (Feb 6, 2010)

I've built a lot of wheels with Belgiums and have never seen a spoke pull through. 

I put grails on my latest bike and was very impressed with them building them up. I'd happily ride either, went with grails because of price.


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