# I think my bars are too far away!



## LastCall (Mar 28, 2012)

So after riding a bit on my new (to me) bike I've noticed im leaning a bit far forward. Is there a fix for this without getting a new frame? I dont think its very far, just enough that my elbows are nearly locking.


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## laffeaux (Dec 12, 2001)

You can fix this with an adjustment to your stem. It's possible that raising it slightly will help out. If not, replace it with a slightly shorter stem. Assuming you bought the bike at a local shop, stop by and ask them to look at your position. They should be able to adjust the stem to make the bike fit better.


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## tlg (May 11, 2011)

You recently posted the bike in the thread below. Is this the bike you're talking about?
About the only thing you can do is move the seat forward. And/or get a shorter stem.
Moving the seat could have other implications to your overall riding position/comfort (assuming it's currently adjusted properly)

https://forums.roadbikereview.com/b...st-post-my-new-road-bike-thoughts-276549.html


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## LastCall (Mar 28, 2012)

tlg said:


> You recently posted the bike in the thread below. Is this the bike you're talking about?
> About the only thing you can do is move the seat forward. And/or get a shorter stem.
> Moving the seat could have other implications to your overall riding position/comfort (assuming it's currently adjusted properly)
> 
> https://forums.roadbikereview.com/b...st-post-my-new-road-bike-thoughts-276549.html


Thats the one . Thanks, I figured the stem was the answer, I appreciate the advice!


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## bikerjulio (Jan 19, 2010)

I think most would say that a 90mm stem is about minimum. Not sure what you have there now- 100mm ? And you could move the saddle about 10mm. That would get you 2-3cm closer.

The other thing I would do is move the levers higher up the bars (don't rotate the bars), that would get the tops another cm or so closer.

If that doesn't do it - the frame's too big for you.


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## laffeaux (Dec 12, 2001)

bikerjulio said:


> I think most would say that a 90mm stem is about minimum. Not sure what you have there now- 100mm ? And you could move the saddle about 10mm. That would get you 2-3cm closer.


Moving the saddle forward to fix a reach problem is a bad solution. The saddle needs to be placed correctly in relation to the bottom bracket. Once the saddle is properly placed for pedaling, then "reach" is adjusted using changes to the stem.


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## tlg (May 11, 2011)

laffeaux said:


> Moving the saddle forward to fix a reach problem is a bad solution. The saddle needs to be placed correctly in relation to the bottom bracket. Once the saddle is properly placed for pedaling, then "reach" is adjusted using changes to the stem.


Correct, however the OP bought the bike used. And I don't believe he had it fitted, so there's a good chance the saddle isn't in the proper postion.


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## bikerjulio (Jan 19, 2010)

laffeaux said:


> Moving the saddle forward to fix a reach problem is a bad solution. The saddle needs to be placed correctly in relation to the bottom bracket. Once the saddle is properly placed for pedaling, then "reach" is adjusted using changes to the stem.



KOPS is just another cycling myth. I don't get too anal about it.


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## laffeaux (Dec 12, 2001)

bikerjulio said:


> KOPS is just another cycling myth. I don't get too anal about it.


KOPS isn't necessarily the correct position, but each rider should have a position where the saddle should be in relationship to the BB. Assuming that the saddle is positioned correctly (which it may not be in this case), moving the saddle forward may make the bars feel closer, but it's not going to help the pedaling motion.

Since this is a bike that's not been fit to the rider, the saddle should be adjust to the position that works for the rider and then the stem should be modified (if needed) for reach.


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## svard75 (Jun 10, 2011)

Moving the saddle forward to correct stem length will just ruin your knees. When doing a proper bike fit sit on your saddle with your padded shorts and shoes. 

-Begin by having someone drop a plumb line from the tip of your knee to the floor. The plumb should be hanging around the ball of your foot or where the pedal is with the cranks parallel to the floor. Move the seat forward or rear as needed.

-Drop your leg and crank to the maximum extension position. You need to have a slight bend in your leg. Adjust the height as needed.

-Hold the handlebars with your hands on the hoods of the shifters and look directly down. Do you see your front wheel hub? You're answer should be no if you have the correct length stem.

If you're still finding the ride uncomfortable with your arms then you're frame is too large.


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## kbwh (May 28, 2010)

KOPS is like the "seeing the front hub"-kindarule. Coarse at best.

I'd get som proper handlebar like an FSA compact instead of the atrocity that's on the bike now, and set it and the brake hoods up correctly on it.


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## LastCall (Mar 28, 2012)

kbwh said:


> KOPS is like the "seeing the front hub"-kindarule. Coarse at best.
> 
> I'd get som proper handlebar like an FSA compact instead of the atrocity that's on the bike now, and set it and the brake hoods up correctly on it.


Perfect . And my LBS will carry compact bars? Or is that something I need to order? And this KOPS thing is going right over my head lol.


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## tlg (May 11, 2011)

LastCall said:


> Perfect . And my LBS will carry compact bars? Or is that something I need to order? And this KOPS thing is going right over my head lol.


We don't know who your LBS is or what they stock. Every shop is different. Some barely stock anything. But they can order something for you, or you could order it yourself (cheaper) and have them install it.

KOPS (knee over pedal spindle) It's a good way to get a basic bike fit. It's not a be all end all though. 

The Myth of K.O.P.S. - Sheldon Brown  
Understanding Bike Fit – KOPS (knee over pedal spindle) « Hypercat Bike Works


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## LastCall (Mar 28, 2012)

tlg said:


> We don't know who your LBS is or what they stock. Every shop is different. Some barely stock anything. But they can order something for you, or you could order it yourself (cheaper) and have them install it.
> 
> KOPS (knee over pedal spindle) It's a good way to get a basic bike fit. It's not a be all end all though.
> 
> ...


Makes sense!


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## oldandtired (Aug 2, 2011)

*Pics*

Why don't you post a picture of you on your bike? Let's see what your position looks like


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## LastCall (Mar 28, 2012)

oldandtired said:


> Why don't you post a picture of you on your bike? Let's see what your position looks like


I will definitely do that later once I get home!


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## LastCall (Mar 28, 2012)

Actually here is a photo now. Is this good enough of a shot. Pajamas. Dont mind em!


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## Sixjours (Feb 24, 2012)

The saddle without horn, shelton brown has an article about them, I used to use one on my MTB , makes you slide forward, like you need to hold on the the bars, a regular saddle gets you centered and balanced better, that is a reach to get on the hoods and brake levers, definitly start with a shorter stem, maybe a regular saddle. That is a bad ass wine cup there...


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## Dresden (May 26, 2009)

Have you adjusted the saddle front to back since you got the bike? The photo of the bike on the other thread looks like it has the saddle shoved all the way back. And the photo of you on the bike in this thread looks like you're sitting pretty far back. You may have some room for adjustment even taking KOPS into account(even though KOPS isn't necessary, IMHO.)


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## LastCall (Mar 28, 2012)

Dresden said:


> Have you adjusted the saddle front to back since you got the bike? The photo of the bike on the other thread looks like it has the saddle shoved all the way back. And the photo of you on the bike in this thread looks like you're sitting pretty far back. You may have some room for adjustment even taking KOPS into account(even though KOPS isn't necessary, IMHO.)


I haven't made any adjustments yet, but im all ears for whatever needs to be taken care of.


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## oldandtired (Aug 2, 2011)

OK

1st: adjust your saddle using the knee over pedal spindle method. It'll get you close and you can make adjustments from there

2nd: You may want to try a different saddle per Sixjours suggestion. If your body is constantly trying to slide forward it'll put a lot of pressure on your arms

3rd: I would look into getting different handle bars. Get some with a shorter reach and drop. 

like:

Last: Just go ahead and bend your arms a little while you ride. There's lots of stuff online regarding good cycling position and posture

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SsTUij8N3cg


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## Dresden (May 26, 2009)

Part of it may be a flexibility issue if you're new to riding a road bike. That will improve with time spent on the bike. Still, it's important to have a good fit. The video posted by oldandtired boils it down to what you really need to know. Here's a link that elaborates on that: SEAT SET BACK: for road bikes » Bike Fit » Steve Hogg's Bike Fitting Website

Finding your fit by balance makes much more sense to me than just going by KOPS.


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## Herbie (Nov 12, 2010)

I'm with Dresden. Flexability may be the issue. You look pretty upright to me. As you ride more, I expect you will lean forward more, and solve the problem.


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## Matador-IV (Aug 2, 2010)

Don't buy anything yet!

Slide your saddle forward about 1cm and level it.
You might consider lowering your saddle ( hard to tell from the pedal position in the photo)
Rotate your bars up until level or possibly parallel to the top tube.


Ride for 1week and re-evaluate.


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## tober1 (Feb 6, 2009)

Matador-IV said:


> Don't buy anything yet!
> 
> Slide your saddle forward about 1cm and level it.
> You might consider lowering your saddle ( hard to tell from the pedal position in the photo)
> ...


I'm with this advice. Don't buy anything just yet. If it's your first road bike it's going to take some getting used to. It's a different riding position than hybrid or mountain. 

Focus on position and flexibility at this point.


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## Crusty (Nov 25, 2009)

Your butt looks pretty far back. That might be a good place to start.


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## vladvm (May 4, 2010)

from the photo, you have flexibility issues. look at your shoulder, it looks as if you are reaching for the handlebars.

looks like you have to move the saddle further forward but who knows. if this is the way you ride get a shorter stem with a high rise. relax those shoulders, have a bend on the elbow to take on the road vibrations. 

don't listen to internet guys, spend the $ and get a proper bike fit.


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## ctkeebler (Feb 28, 2012)

I'm having a similar issue where my elbows are sore from riding. I'm thinking its the stem length or just not riding relaxed. I was between a 58 and 61,size Felt Z6 and went with the larger, it just felt better and I was looking for a comfortable recreational riding bike. I think the stems were the same length on both sizes, the the tube tube is longer on the 61, I don't remember how much longer.I'm going to ride it a bit longer trying to relax while I wait for an opening to yet professionally fit


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## Zman099 (Mar 9, 2012)

Your reach appears to be long. Adjust the stem length until you have slight bend in your elbows with your back at 35-45 degrees (upper arm should be 75-90 degrees to your torso. Ideal stem length is 90 - 110 mm.


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## Peanya (Jun 12, 2008)

I see nothing wrong with tilting the bars up a little more. The tops of mine are level to the ground. 
I think gettng a saddle would help too. It's hard to tell if the bike is too big for you, but from the angle of your back, I'm guessing that you're either not that flexible, or you should lean more forward.
If you can post another pic, with your cycling shorts and shoes on, from a 90 degree angle, and with the cranks horizontal and also even with the seat tube. Reason: in the pic, it does look like you're too far back on the "saddle", but I could be wrong here. The pic of the cranks even with the seat tube also will let me know if the heigth is ok.


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## ctkeebler (Feb 28, 2012)

According to Felt the 58CM Z6 and 61cm both have a 110mm stem. He 58cm has a reach of 392 and he 61cm has a reach of 406. The top tube is 552 on the 58cm and 406 on the 61cm. I know there are no industry standards in geometry measurements. I could have ridden the 58cm but the 61cm seemed to me to be a more comfortable ride. That maybe because I'm new to bike and not really sure what a correct fit should feel like


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## AlexCad5 (Jan 2, 2005)

I'm assuming first that you have already leveled your saddle and moved it forward.
If so:
When you sit on the saddle, rotate your pelvis forward and flatten your back, this is a proper road position, and should give you some bend to your arms. That doesn't mean the bike will fit, but it will give you a better indication if it might. If your hands are getting numb, your reach is too long.
Next:
Shorter stem 80 or 90mm, and short reach/drop bars. The best by far in terms of getting a shorter reach is the Easton SLX3, but they are carbon and expensive. 

I've found if the bars are rotated too high, it can cause hand numbness because of an unnatural wrist position. I found a very slight downward slope to the top of the bars eliminated a bit of stress on my wrists/hands by straitening the line from the forearm across the wrist to the hand, and eliminated resulting hand numbness.

YMMV

Good Luck.
Getting the right fit can be difficult if you proportions aren't average.


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## ctkeebler (Feb 28, 2012)

Thanks for all information AlexCad5 lots of good information for me to research and absorb. I didnt realize there were also short reach bars. Do they change the overall reach from the saddle or just the reachfrom the hoods to the drops?
Regarding stems what makes one stem better than another? Just weight and material?


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## AlexCad5 (Jan 2, 2005)

Hi,
Yes, they alter the reach and drop. Most bars have measurements, though how a bar is measured can differ. Shape is a big factor too, and two bars with identical numbers can fit differently based on shape. 

See this website for some good info.
http://ruedatropical.com/2009/03/road-drop-bar-geometry/

Oh, make sure your seat is not too high. Others have mentioned this as well. If you start to have hamstring issues, your seat is probably too high. A high seat will increase reach. Too low will give you knee pain, and you will lose power.


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## JaeP (Mar 12, 2002)

LastCall said:


> Actually here is a photo now. Is this good enough of a shot. Pajamas. Dont mind em!


From this pic your bike looks too big for you.


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## icaruswings (Apr 27, 2010)

Just be careful with getting too short a stem, it can make your bike overly twitchy


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## Peanya (Jun 12, 2008)

icaruswings said:


> Just be careful with getting too short a stem, it can make your bike overly twitchy


I didn't notice that when I went to a 65mm stem a few years back. I can see this if the bike is too small, but if the frame is too big, going to a 30mm stem shouldn't make a bike twitchy.


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## dcgriz (Feb 13, 2011)

LastCall said:


> Actually here is a photo now. Is this good enough of a shot. Pajamas. Dont mind em!


Your saddle is too high. The pedal is not inline with the seat tube and your right leg appears to be almost straight. Lower the seat until either of your heels barely touches the pedals w/o dropping your hips; check both legs.
I looks like the bike might be a tad too big for you.


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## alexb618 (Aug 24, 2006)

saddle too high
bars too high


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## OldZaskar (Jul 1, 2009)

New bar?
New stem?
Move the saddle?
Not flexible?

All that from a photo? When he's wearing pajamas? Barefoot? Okay guys, go get on your bike (in a trainer or being held) in pajamas (or boxers, etc.)...barefoot. Now, how much are you rotating your pelvis? What happens to your "boys" when you rotate your pelvis in loose shorts? Barefoot... how much weight are you putting on the pedals? So... you're upright? Reaching for the bar?

I'll grant you this - the seat and bar should be leveled. But beyond that? Come on. We're better than this.


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## SlurpeeKing (Jul 23, 2010)

go get a fitting from your LBS. this is where a lot of people go wrong and end up with a coat rack because of the discomfort. You should be able to ride (within reason) for hours with minimal discomfort.


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## weltyed (Feb 6, 2004)

this is a fun thread to read. it got so much better when he added the picture of him on the bike.


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## svard75 (Jun 10, 2011)

LastCall said:


> Actually here is a photo now. Is this good enough of a shot. Pajamas. Dont mind em!


Based on this photo here is what I noticed you need to correct:

-I believe your saddle is too high (Look at your extension your knee looks locked)
-The frame is too large. Straddle the bike and stand on the ground with both feet. Are your nuts comfy?
-You're reaching too far (your hands aren't even on the hoods and you look stretched). Moving the saddle forward will only cause other knee related issues. If that stems 120mm I would try a 90mm stem or smaller.
-It also appears like your crankarms are too large.

MO bottom line the bike frame, cranks and stem are too large for you.


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## svard75 (Jun 10, 2011)

OldZaskar said:


> New bar?
> New stem?
> Move the saddle?
> Not flexible?
> ...


What's he missing? Padded shorts won't make him taller, shoes (Maybe 1-2CM). Look at his body position then imagine if he was on the hoods with his hands! :eek6:


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## LastCall (Mar 28, 2012)

svard75 said:


> What's he missing? Padded shorts won't make him taller, shoes (Maybe 1-2CM). Look at his body position then imagine if he was on the hoods with his hands! :eek6:


Haha. I'll take a much better picture once I'm back from my barbershop contest.


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