# Motobecane Le Champion CF LTD



## mopartodd

Just ordered a new Blue/White, 54cm. This will be my first serious road bike in nearly 20 years. I've been riding MTB and a rigid, re-geared MTB on pavement...plus used a CX bike as well. I'm really looking forward to this bike as it will be my first carbon bike.

I'd be interested in hearing from other owners of this bike on how well, or maybe not, they like the bike.


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## R1000

Cool man... Make sure to post pics, I'm a 54 and I took a long lookn at this bike. Decided to get a kestrel instead.


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## mopartodd

Okay, so here it is. I have one short ride on the bike thus far and it really is what I had hoped for...A better riding bike for the street. The bike handles predictably and feels good out of the saddle.

I can't find anything I don't like about this bike. The sizing from the website was right-on, the specs. were exactly as advertised and the finish and assembly were good. The only parts I'm changing for personal reasons are the saddle and the handlebars/stem. The 40cm bar is way too narrow for me.


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## R1000

nice... doesn't look like a 54 from that picture perspective... Could be the spacers... are you planning on removing some of them?


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## mopartodd

R1000 said:


> nice... doesn't look like a 54 from that picture perspective... Could be the spacers... are you planning on removing some of them?


Yeah, I could probably take a few spacers out of there now that the bar position is correct. I don't run a lot of drop off the seat, maybe 2 inches.


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## skilon

Sweet bike. Actually this post made me take the jump - i just ordered the Le Champion CF LTD, 56cm, white/blue. Love the colorscheme on it and love the price of the bike. (was considering the Cannondale Synapse 4 Carbon - but just couldn't justify the price - now i end up with a bike that has specs like Synapse 3!). 

Upgrading my 12 year old alu bike w. Shimano 105. Needed to get a different gearing as my current 52/42 with 14-24 just is too brutal here in the sourthern California hills .

Can't wait..... Thanks to all posters here on RBR!


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## mopartodd

skilon said:


> Sweet bike. Actually this post made me take the jump - i just ordered the Le Champion CF LTD, 56cm, white/blue. Love the colorscheme on it and love the price of the bike. (was considering the Cannondale Synapse 4 Carbon - but just couldn't justify the price - now i end up with a bike that has specs like Synapse 3!).
> 
> Upgrading my 12 year old alu bike w. Shimano 105. Needed to get a different gearing as my current 52/42 with 14-24 just is too brutal here in the sourthern California hills .
> 
> Can't wait..... Thanks to all posters here on RBR!


I'd be interested in hearing your impressions when you get your bike built.


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## Mike.Orbon

Hey All,

I just bought one of these and love the fit! I am 6'3" with a 34" inseam. I used a Competitive Cyclist fit system and this bike is about the Eddy Fit.

Unfortunately I have found that the shipper damaged the chainstay. There is a spider crack that at first I thought was a scratch in the gelcoat, but in the sun I could see the spreading shape of it! I have sent a set of pictures including one of the damaged box where the shipper failed to follow directions.

Has anyone worked through a problem like this?

Mike


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## mopartodd

Mike.Orbon said:


> Hey All,
> 
> I just bought one of these and love the fit! I am 6'3" with a 34" inseam. I used a Competitive Cyclist fit system and this bike is about the Eddy Fit.
> 
> Unfortunately I have found that the shipper damaged the chainstay. There is a spider crack that at first I thought was a scratch in the gelcoat, but in the sun I could see the spreading shape of it! I have sent a set of pictures including one of the damaged box where the shipper failed to follow directions.
> 
> Has anyone worked through a problem like this?
> 
> Mike


Any chance you took pictures? Could you post them?


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## Geoff9399

Mike.Orbon said:


> Hey All,
> 
> I just bought one of these and love the fit! I am 6'3" with a 34" inseam. I used a Competitive Cyclist fit system and this bike is about the Eddy Fit.
> 
> Mike


I am just about the same size as you. What size did you order? Thanks!


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## robc in wi

I'm interested in the Champion Fire with SRAM Force vs Moto Ti. How does the Champion frame climb? I.E noticable flex when hammering. Thanks for any input.


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## mopartodd

robc in wi said:


> I'm interested in the Champion Fire wit SRAM Force vs Moto Ti. How doe the Champion frame climb? I.E noticable flex when hammering. Thanks for any input.


I don't notice any flex when hammering/sprinting out of the saddle. The bike is solid, maybe even gives up a bit of ride quality for it too.


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## Local Hero

Try a fast descent and you'll understand why I don't ride mine.


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## mopartodd

Local Hero said:


> Try a fast descent and you'll understand why I don't ride mine.


What happens? How fast were you going?


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## Local Hero

I personally prefer something with a front end that feels stiff and stable above 40mph.


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## mopartodd

Local Hero said:


> I personally prefer something with a front end that feels stiff and stable above 40mph.


Curious. Does it wander or can you see the fork flexing? Is this your track bike?


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## Local Hero

The track bike is stiff on the velodrome and the roads. No complaints there. 

I'm talking about the exact same frame as you. I own the motobecane Le Champ CF w/ sram red. I don't really look down at the fork while descending so I can't say if the flexing is visible. 
From Bike Test:


> [T]he fork ended up being the bike’s weakest link when it came to lateral rigidity. When laying down the power out of the saddle, or trying to carve a tight line, the fork was overmatched. Although the fork didn’t deliver the stiffness we were expecting when being pushed hard, it did provide a smooth ride.
> ...
> a fork that is slightly below other bike companies. It’s a comfortable riding bike that will perform excellently for the vast majority of riders. But, racers or aggressive riders will notice the limits in the fork’s abilities.


BIKE TESTS: MOTOBECANE LE CHAMPION CF INFERNO




I have no trouble descending. Click this sentence and see me at 45mph+ on my s-works.


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## Local Hero

Don't let me psych you out though. It's a fine bike. It's just not as stiff as I like.


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## mopartodd

Local Hero said:


> Don't let me psych you out though. It's a fine bike. It's just not as stiff as I like.


Oh no. It's easily posssible that I haven't had the bike to that point either since there are no real decents to speak of here. Maybe I'll have to take it to the mountains next month when we go and see if I notice the fork flexing.

Thanks for the link BTW.


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## Rob_P

Mike.Orbon said:


> Hey All,
> 
> I just bought one of these and love the fit! I am 6'3" with a 34" inseam. I used a Competitive Cyclist fit system and this bike is about the Eddy Fit.
> 
> Unfortunately I have found that the shipper damaged the chainstay. There is a spider crack that at first I thought was a scratch in the gelcoat, but in the sun I could see the spreading shape of it! I have sent a set of pictures including one of the damaged box where the shipper failed to follow directions.
> 
> Has anyone worked through a problem like this?
> 
> Mike


Hi Mike,

I had exactly the same problem. My damage was on the non-drive side chain stay. I might have had a fairly unique situation in the fact that I was returning to the UK that week, but Bikes Direct sent me a new frame (in the white/blue colour scheme) and I transferred all the components from the broken frame to the new one. Check out my posts here http://forums.roadbikereview.com/motobecane-mercier/le-champion-cf-ltd-227503.html.

Absolutely love the bike, wouldn't have gone down any other route. I'm 6'2" with a 33" inseam and I ride the 61cm frame.

Good luck,

Rob


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## skimad

*good luck, look for cracks*

Best of luck with your Le Champion CF. I enjoyed mine for about a year and a half before it started creaking like crazy while pedaling. I swapped out the pedals and even the BB before I noticed cracks around the bottom bracket. One place I would not have believed would crack on a carbon frame is around the bottom bracket. Since Motobecane only warranties their carbon frames for one year I am out of luck (unless you consider paying $400 for a replacement frame a good deal, I don't). 

Wish I would have paid more attention to the fine print (1 year frame warranty) before purchasing.


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## Local Hero

Thanks a lot, skimad! I'm about to list mine on ebay. Now how am I supposed to sell it


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## skimad

too funny. Maybe I"ll list mine first! 58cm, hardly ridden, creaks a little when climbing and sprinting, but otherwise perfect.


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## Local Hero

Can you post a picture of the crack? 

How did you miss the crack when you replaced the BB? 

(I might sell mine WITH the GXP BB)


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## cda 455

mopartodd said:


> Okay, so here it is. I have one short ride on the bike thus far and it really is what I had hoped for...A better riding bike for the street. The bike handles predictably and feels good out of the saddle.
> 
> I can't find anything I don't like about this bike. The sizing from the website was right-on, the specs. were exactly as advertised and the finish and assembly were good. The only parts I'm changing for personal reasons are the saddle and the handlebars/stem. The 40cm bar is way too narrow for me.


Good looking bike!

Keep us posted with pics as you do your swap.


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## skimad

*Le Champion CF crack*

Found a pic on my email to Motobecane. You know, the email where they responded that their warranty on a Carbon bike that does not have a scratch is 1 year. Here it is. As far how how I didn't notice it, it's not huge, and I think it was been growing as I rode the bike. Just to clarify since the bike was upside down for the pic, it's the BB from the top and around the drive side chainstay.


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## Local Hero

I don't really see it. Is it the line closest to the edge, only on white? Or is it the lines further from the edge, on both the white and green? Both? 

This is too bad. It would cost them (and me) less to have just replaced your frame.


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## skimad

the two hairline cracks very close together from the white to the gray that follow the circumference of the BB. They look like cracks in the paint, but unfortunately, they are not superficial. The bike creaks twice with every pedal stroke. That 160 creaks per minute, ouch. 

I year was a disappointment. Lesson learned.


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## LongIslandTom

Skimad: That's an interesting photo.

The jagged edges looks like the carbon BB area of your LeChamp CF frame has been cut with a BB shell facing tool.

Most of the major brands I've seen like Trek, Specialized, etc. specifically warn against facing the BB shell on their carbon frames (they say chasing the BB shell is OK, but not facing). Maybe this is the kind of damage that results when a carbon frame is BB faced?

Did yours come like that from the factory?

The original finish of the BB area on the LeChamp CF frame is supposed to look like the photo in my attachment below.

If BD actually cuts their CF frames with a shell facing tool, I'm glad the LeChamp I bought from them is the Titanium version!


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## skimad

Here are pictures that might clarify a little, I circled the cracks and labeled the chainstay. The area with the cracks (at least the longest cracks) are recessed from the BB shell, so facing was does not appear to have been an issue. The bike was delivered assembled, so the way it looks is the way is arrived (expect the frame failure). Also, the creaking didn't start until just over a year from when I received the bike. The sad thing is I mostly mountain bike, so the bike is only ridden a couple of months a year. 

The area around the BB shell on carbon bikes appears so burly, like I said earlier, this is the last place I would expect to have a failure. Also, it's obvious when you see the bike that there was no crash or abuse. I expected my Motobecane Le Champion CF to last for many years, or at least assumed they would stand behind their product in a case where the frame was relatively new and showed no signs of abuse.


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## LongIslandTom

Remember carbon fiber can propagate cracks in areas far from the original damage site. It is very possible that your crack resulted from the facing cuts on your frame's carbon BB area.

Come to think of it, the past three CF bikes I owned (Trek 5000, Specialized Roubaix comp, Giant TCR C3) when I had to take off the BB bearing cups for servicing, the CF frame's BB shell area has never been cut up like that.


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## stephen9666

skimad said:


> the two hairline cracks very close together from the white to the gray that follow the circumference of the BB. They look like cracks in the paint, but unfortunately, they are not superficial. The bike creaks twice with every pedal stroke. That 160 creaks per minute, ouch.


They don't really look like cracks in the picture, just marks or scratches in the paint. Obviously, it's hard to tell from a picture.


When swapping the bottom bracket, I assume you greased the threads? Can't insufficient grease on the BB threads cause a creak?

I will say, the carbon around the bottom bracket shell doesn't look too good.


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## skimad

stephen9666, thanks for the feedback regarding grease the threads. I've been wrenching bikes for 20 years, which is why I was comfortable buying online. The parts from this frame (BB, cranks, wheels, etc.) are all running perfect on my Klein frameset. 

When your bike starts creaking at 160 to 180 times per minute, you don't ignore it. I've had creaky BB before on other bikes, which is why I swapped that first. I also didn't think the worse. I swapped out BB, cranks, wheels, and checked tightness on the post, stem, and bars. 

Also, consider the location. Perfect circular cracks on the paint on a protected part of the frame. Exactly the part of the frame in which stress is applied during climbing and sprinting. 

You think paint cracks with the underlying material intact?


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## mopartodd

That looks too uneven for a facing tool...looks more like a hand file to me.

UPDATE:
I have over 1000 miles on the bike now and have had no problems other than some spoke creak/ping from the rear wheel. I have noticed the fork flex during some hard cornering though. I had plans to replace the bike within 2 years anyway if I decided to continue road cycling, so this bike has done okay overall.


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## motobecane69

skimad said:


> Best of luck with your Le Champion CF. I enjoyed mine for about a year and a half before it started creaking like crazy while pedaling. I swapped out the pedals and even the BB before I noticed cracks around the bottom bracket. One place I would not have believed would crack on a carbon frame is around the bottom bracket. Since Motobecane only warranties their carbon frames for one year I am out of luck (unless you consider paying $400 for a replacement frame a good deal, I don't).
> 
> Wish I would have paid more attention to the fine print (1 year frame warranty) before purchasing.


What planet are you from that you think $400 is a bad deal for a carbon fiber frame? This is part of why BD bikes are such a good value. You could have bought a Trek for $2000 more and MAYBE gotten your frame replaced free but you probably still would have had to pay something depending on if they deemed it to have been in a crash or not. You can replace your frame 5 times over with the $2000 you saved. Too many people don't understand the BD business model and have unrealistic expectations. It is totally possible that you got 1 bad frame and it's going to leave a bad taste in your mouth, i get that but I agreee, somethhng looks of about the face of that bottom bracket


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## skimad

*what planet am I from?*

Ask me to buy a $400 carbon frame, and I think good deal.

Ask me to pay $400 to replace a carbon frame with a one year warranty knowing that last one lasted 1 1/2 years and cracked through no fault of my own. Thanks but no thanks.

If you dig Moto so much that you'd accept a revolving door of broken frames, great for you. I liked the bike, It's my second Moto and friends of mine have bought them. 

I'm not done with Motobecane, I just choose not to buy one with a one year warranty.

If I deserve to be insulted for that, I can take it.


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## Local Hero

Funny, I just put my le champion on ebay 2 minutes ago.


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## LongIslandTom

Is it possible to request BD to NOT face the BB shell on the frame if you are going to buy a carbon bike from them?

Not that I would be buying a carbon bike from them anytime soon, since I already bought my Moto LeChamp Ti bike (which should last well into the 22nd Century).


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## motobecane69

skimad said:


> Ask me to buy a $400 carbon frame, and I think good deal.
> 
> Ask me to pay $400 to replace a carbon frame with a one year warranty knowing that last one lasted 1 1/2 years and cracked through no fault of my own. Thanks but no thanks.
> 
> If you dig Moto so much that you'd accept a revolving door of broken frames, great for you. I liked the bike, It's my second Moto and friends of mine have bought them.
> 
> I'm not done with Motobecane, I just choose not to buy one with a one year warranty.
> 
> If I deserve to be insulted for that, I can take it.


You don't understand business. The reason why a company can offer longer warranties on products is because you are paying for it!!!!!!! That $2000 Trek frame doesn't cost them any more to make than a $400 Motobecane. your paying for the warranty up front with these name brand bikes. Some people want that piece of mind. I'm not willing to pay that much for it. I'd rather save my money and buy a 2nd complete backup bike and purchase another frame if mine should break and ride my backup bike while i get parts swapped. And again, I suspect you did something to that bottom bracket or the person you may have had assemble the bike and they could be responsible for it breaking.


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## skimad

At least now I know that you don't represent Motobecane, because I"m pretty sure their business model is based on straight to consumer savings, not based on substandard warranties. Their carbon bike frames are the only ones with a substandard warranty.

As far as me or someone "I" had assemble the bike causing the damage, that's a red herring that someone on this thread started. Unless you can explain how carbon recessed in from the BB is somehow cracked by a force other than a defective frame is beyond me. 

And the bike arrived to me from bikes direct fully assembled. I had to attach the front wheel, stem, and seatpost. And was perfect for just over a year before the creaking started this past season.


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## LongIslandTom

> As far as me or someone "I" had assemble the bike causing the damage, that's a red herring that someone on this thread started. Unless you can explain how carbon recessed in from the BB is somehow cracked by a force other than a defective frame is beyond me.


Not saying that anything you did damaged the frame, but facing the BB shell on a carbon fiber frame WILL damage it. That is why well-known manufacturers like Specialized, Felt, etc. specifically have warnings in their CF frame manuals to NOT face the BB shell on their carbon frames.
http://service.specialized.com/coll...ame---Carbon-Road-Frame-Instruction-Guide.pdf
http://www.feltbicycles.com/Resources/Manuals/FELT_CARBON_CARE_GUIDE(2).pdf

Any time you cut or deeply scuff a carbon fiber bike frame, it is damaged and can cause cracks to propagate in areas near where the carbon fiber is cut. That is NOT a "red herring."

If your bike came from the vendor like that, then that is exactly where the blame should be laid.

Learn from this experience. The next carbon fiber bike you buy, make sure the bike shop or online vendor you buy from has not already damaged your frame by facing the CF BB shell.


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## BacDoc

Exactly what is "facing" the bottom bracket and why would anyone do that?

Also at the price BD is selling their bikes at I think $400 is not bad for an outside warranty claim. There are lots of threads about consumers complaining about warranties and frame failures from the big companies and some of those customers got nothing and paid 3-4 times the price of BD.

Just sayin..


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## LongIslandTom

Facing a bike frame's bottom bracket shell ensures that both the left-side and right-side rims of the BB shell are parallel. It ensures an external bottom bracket's bearing cups will screw in perfectly parallel on both sides. If an external BB's cups aren't parallel, it will shorten the bearings' service life. Park Tool Co. » ParkTool Blog » Bottom Bracket Tapping, Threading, Chasing and Facing

Obviously facing the BB shell on an aluminum or steel frame will not hurt the frames at all. Titanium frames can be faced, but titanium by nature is difficult to machine and it's very hard on the facing tools. Carbon fiber frames on the other hand usually are not supposed to have their BB shells faced-- if you cut into the carbon fiber, you are damaging the frame by compromising the structural integrity of the composite frame member.

I've owned three carbon fiber bikes (a Trek, a Specialized and a Giant) with external English-thread BBs, and none of them had their BB shells faced when I bought them.


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## linded

Rather then wrongly facing the BB, might the damage have occured from a loose external bearing cup, working back and forth, grinding away the carbon face, leading to crack propagation? Just a thought.


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## mopartodd

linded said:


> Rather then wrongly facing the BB, might the damage have occured from a loose external bearing cup, working back and forth, grinding away the carbon face, leading to crack propagation? Just a thought.


The removed material is outside of the BB mating surface. Good idea though.


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## igotyofire

i have a question. Does everyone else who have this bike have a faced BB ? that Di2 equipped one looks like awesome deal. I might look into a carbon bike in the next couple of months, I just wonder how long carbon is supposed to last...


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## cyclesport45

My wife's Ultegra bike looks NOT faced. 4000 miles and no problems.


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## vautrain

Well then, who faced the BB shell on skimad's bike, and why? Very strange.


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## denommep

*Sizing LeChampion CF LTD*

I am about to order a LeChampion CF LTD and I was looking for confirmation of the size to pick with actual owners of LeChampion CF

I am 5'9" with 31.8" inseam and i do hesitate between a 51 and a 54. So if anybody who have those sizes can post their height an inseam and their satisfaction of the frame size it wil be helpfull for me.

Thank's


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## gbiking

denommep,
Did anyone reply to you size question? I'm the same sizes and want to buy this buy. I was looking at the 54 but not sure yet.

let me know. thanks.


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