# New chain, new cassette- still slipping. Help!



## Lkdog (Oct 6, 2004)

Ok, I admit I am a newbie. If there is a website you can point me to to try some basic adjustments to fix my problem, I would appreciate it.

Got a new chain and cassette installed at my LBS on my 2002 LeMond Zurich all ultegra bike.
They were installed at different times so the bike was not adjusted when they both were put on. The cassette got put on later as I just brought the wheel in -not the whole bike.

I figure it is time I learn to do some basic things on the bike after all of these years. 

When I stand up going hard up hills it still slips gears.

I am pretty good at following directions if you can point me in the right direction.

Thanks!


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## Doolab (Feb 13, 2008)

Park Tool has lots of good instructional information. Check their website.
Also, go to Shimano's website, and locate the instructions for adjusting your derailleur.
You may also want to determine the condition of your shifting cables, whether they need to be changed or not...


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## Lkdog (Oct 6, 2004)

Thank you. Will check those sites out.


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## FBinNY (Jan 24, 2009)

It's possible that the chain is actually slipping on the chainrings, and you wouldn't be the first person to have this problem and think it's coming from the rear.

However you should start by covering the basics in the back.

1- could be stiff links or sections of chain. Back pedal while holding the RD idler cage so the chain's lower loop is a bit slack. Feel for any tug as a stiff link comes through and watch the chain coming out of the RD for any links that don't straighten immediately. If so, relube your chain until it runs perfectly smoothly during this test.

2- bent hanger. Stand directly behind your bike and eyeball to see if the idler cage seems perfectly vertical and square to the plane of the rear wheel. There's a tool made for this job, but you're just doing a coarse check for now. If there's any doubt bring the bike in and have this checked properly.

3- RD trim, It's possible your RD is trying to shift under load leading to your problems. Use the cable adjuster to perfectly center the RD, so it shifts equally well in both directions.

4- Frame flex/ cable movement . Wrap 2 pieces of masking tape around your gear wire over the chain stay. Make sure they can slide, but not easily. Shift into a mid-range gear, then slide one piece back against the read cable stop, and the other up to the forward stop or guide. Go out and pound on the bike until you get the system to slip. Now look at the two pieces of tape. If either have pushed off the end stop, your cable is moving, either from frame flex, handlebar movement, or another cause, which you'll need to track down.

5- even though both chain and cassette new, it pays to check. Put your bike in a corner with the front wheel against one wall. Shift to the problem gear combination and get on the bike and try to ride through the wall while a friend watches the chain on the cassette carefully, for signs that it's climbing higher on the sprockets. Do the same test but have him watch the chain on the chainrings.


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## Peanya (Jun 12, 2008)

Can you describe what the skipping is like more please? I'm thinking you might either need to adjust your rear deraulleur (as mentioned above too), or that your pawls are skipping, and not the chain. But, without more detail, it's hard to pin down.


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## Lkdog (Oct 6, 2004)

FBinNY said:


> It's possible that the chain is actually slipping on the chainrings, and you wouldn't be the first person to have this problem and think it's coming from the rear.
> 
> However you should start by covering the basics in the back.
> 
> ...



Thank you. Very detailed and informative. I have a lot to learn!
Will try and move through those steps of diagnosis.


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## Lkdog (Oct 6, 2004)

Peanya said:


> Can you describe what the skipping is like more please? I'm thinking you might either need to adjust your rear deraulleur (as mentioned above too), or that your pawls are skipping, and not the chain. But, without more detail, it's hard to pin down.


Sure- It only happens when going up a steeper incline and I am out of the saddle with my full weight on the bike/drivetrain.

After about six or seven revolutions it can happen. It feels like the chain just slips down to another gear from where it was.
Always in the middle ring of the triple.Never on the big ring, but I do not climb in that one. I rarely use the small ring so have no idea whether that is a problem also.
Not exactly sure, but seems to be in the middle of the cassette or higher up when it does happen. Never on lower teeth.
The gear slips and my knees shoot toward the handlebar ends...Ouch!


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## Peanya (Jun 12, 2008)

That sounds like frame flex causing it to me. See if it's going up a gear or down a gear when it happens. You might be able to adjust the trim on your rear derailleur to fix it.


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## frdfandc (Nov 27, 2007)

Lkdog said:


> Always in the middle ring of the triple.Never on the big ring, but I do not climb in that one. I rarely use the small ring so have no idea whether that is a problem also.



There is your answer. If it only happens in one chainring - TADA!!!!!!!!


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## Lkdog (Oct 6, 2004)

Peanya said:


> That sounds like frame flex causing it to me. See if it's going up a gear or down a gear when it happens. You might be able to adjust the trim on your rear derailleur to fix it.


I will pay closer attention next time it happens.
It is no fun inducing it....  

I have bruises on my left thigh above the knee where it hits the handlebar end.:cryin:


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## andulong (Nov 23, 2006)

At first you said that you have a new chain and cassette...then you say they were installed at different times. Sounds like maybe your chain is actually more worn than the cassette??? Did you use it with a different cassette before installing the new cassette and if so how much? A chain can wear fairly quickly on a worn cassette and then if a new cassette is installed it can slip like you are describing. If the new chain is brand new with no or very little use before the new cassette was installed then disregard this entire post.


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## Dinosaur (Jan 29, 2004)

It sounds like your small chain ring is toast...


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## cxwrench (Nov 9, 2004)

"It sounds like your small chain ring is toast..."

no...he said he uses the middle chainring alot...

that is most likely your problem, it's the most used according to you, so that makes sense. i really doubt that frame flex is causing this too happen. take a look at the teeth on the middle ring and see if they look 'sharper' and more shark fin shaped than the teeth on the big ring.


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## Kristatos (Jan 10, 2008)

my vote is on bent rear derailleur hanger


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## Lkdog (Oct 6, 2004)

andulong said:


> At first you said that you have a new chain and cassette...hen you say they were installed at different times. Sounds like maybe your chain is actually more worn than the cassette??? Did you use it with a different cassette before installing the new cassette and if so how much? A chain can wear fairly quickly on a worn cassette and then if a new cassette is installed it can slip like you are describing. If the new chain is brand new with no or very little use before the new cassette was installed then disregard this entire post.



Sorry if I was a little unclear. I replaced the cassette about three weeks after the new chain. The old chain was stretched and we thought that was the likely culprit of slipping that was happening.
The LBS said to watch how the new chain performed and if the chain still slipped that I likely needed a new cassette.

The cassette was then replaced on the rear hub off the bike as it was still slipping.

It seemed fine with no issues for a couple weeks, but started again.

Now about 5 weeks later it still slips (rarely only when standing on steep inclines), but it is a PITA nonetheless.


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## Lkdog (Oct 6, 2004)

cxwrench said:


> "It sounds like your small chain ring is toast..."
> 
> no...he said he uses the middle chainring alot...
> 
> that is most likely your problem, it's the most used according to you, so that makes sense. i really doubt that frame flex is causing this too happen. take a look at the teeth on the middle ring and see if they look 'sharper' and more shark fin shaped than the teeth on the big ring.



Well, to say that I use the middle ring most is an understatement.............
I spend 80% of my time there. Use the big rings on longer flat stretches mostly..
Big ring gets more use when on my trainer in winter.....

*A visual check of the middle ring and there are more than a few teeth that are getting pointy as opposed to the relative virgin small ring teeth. Could be time for new crankset?*

*It is the original crankset. Probably about 14,000 miles on it.*
This is my third chain.
Second cassette.

I did do the inspection suggested above for frozen links in the new chain. Seems OK.
I just did a pretty through cleaning and lube of the parts last week.

Will do some other testing this week-I have to go out of town for a couple days and will not be around.


Thanks for the input.


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## Peanya (Jun 12, 2008)

14000 miles is still fairly young for a chainring. The rounded teeth are usually design features to aid in shifting. Not needed on the small ring of a triple.


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## Lkdog (Oct 6, 2004)

Peanya said:


> 14000 miles is still fairly young for a chainring. The rounded teeth are usually design features to aid in shifting. Not needed on the small ring of a triple.


The small ring looks like new and has rounded/squarish teeth.
The middle ring has several pointy teeth FWIW.

Not saying that is the problem, but they sure look more worn.


Will report back...............


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## Dinosaur (Jan 29, 2004)

*Sorry*



cxwrench said:


> "It sounds like your small chain ring is toast..."
> 
> no...he said he uses the middle chainring alot...
> 
> that is most likely your problem, it's the most used according to you, so that makes sense. i really doubt that frame flex is causing this too happen. take a look at the teeth on the middle ring and see if they look 'sharper' and more shark fin shaped than the teeth on the big ring.



Sorry, I misread the post. Most likely the middle ring. I've gone through the same thing. Slips when climbing under load on a steep grade. I use Campy (double), but I've experienced different mileage with my chainrings. No clue why. The original poster could try a new middle ring and if that doesn't solve the problem, pull it off. No money lost, you will need it sooner or later.


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## Lkdog (Oct 6, 2004)

Dinosaur said:


> Sorry, I misread the post. Most likely the middle ring. I've gone through the same thing. Slips when climbing under load on a steep grade. I use Campy (double), but I've experienced different mileage with my chainrings. No clue why. The original poster could try a new middle ring and if that doesn't solve the problem, pull it off. No money lost, you will need it sooner or later.


I really appreciate yours and others help and ideas.
Will report back later this week when I do more troubleshooting.

Thanks everyone. This is a really helpful forum.


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## blkwtr (Aug 5, 2010)

Here's and idea I haven't seen mentioned yet - perhaps your chain is too long. I had a problem similar to your's. I checked the length of the chain and compared it to various formulas for determining chain length. This indicated the chain was a bit too long. I removed one link and problem solved.

Of course if the chain is too long, running in the smaller chain ring will make the problem worse.

Dennis


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## Lkdog (Oct 6, 2004)

*UPDATE for those interested:*

Took it in to my LBS.

They replaced my cables which they felt were getting sluggish.
Adjusted RD.

Still slipping under heavy stand up load when they did some road testing.

They think the middle ring needs to be replaced due to some worn teeth.
They are ordering one and should have it in this week.

Thanks everybody for your input. You were correct on several things that needed work.
Let's hope this does the trick.


Oh-for the poster who asked what direction the chain slipped on the cassette-it goes down the cassette when it slips whatever that means.........


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