# Tylenol to be added to banned substance list?



## Bill2 (Oct 14, 2007)

Il Paracetamolo tra etica e salute | Bdc-forum.it | Bici da corsa
If Tylenol is banned will everyone be a doper?


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## spdntrxi (Jul 25, 2013)

I know I would be… always taking something for anti-inflamation reasons.


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## Fireform (Dec 15, 2005)

**** is dangerous, period.


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## JohnStonebarger (Jan 22, 2004)

spdntrxi said:


> I know I would be… always taking something for anti-inflamation reasons.


Tylenol isn't much of an anti-inflammatory.


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## JohnStonebarger (Jan 22, 2004)

Bill2 said:


> Il Paracetamolo tra etica e salute | Bdc-forum.it | Bici da corsa
> If Tylenol is banned will everyone be a doper?


No, just people who take Tylenol.


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## jpick915 (May 7, 2006)

I am an Advil guy, so I should be good.


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## spade2you (May 12, 2009)

I confess to using Tylenol. I stopped in 2007.


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## Guest (Nov 8, 2013)

Tylenol is not on the list of NSAIDS but it does have a weak anti inflamatory effect, reduces temperature and helps with aches and pains. Commonly used alone or in many combination drugs such as Vicodin or cold tablets.


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## JohnStonebarger (Jan 22, 2004)

Personally, I don't like NSAIDs, because I suspect that the inflammatory response to stress may well be key to positive adaptions.

I don't often use Tylenol, either, but the one time I have used it regularly was before TTs: Tylenol blocks pain messages in the brain itself, it has been shown to make TTers faster. If that's not a PED, I don't know what is. I'm fine with putting Tylenol on the list.


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## headloss (Mar 3, 2013)

JohnStonebarger said:


> Tylenol isn't much of an anti-inflammatory.


Well, it's not an antihistamine... but,


> Acetaminophen belongs to a class of drugs called analgesics (pain relievers) and antipyretics (fever reducers). The exact mechanism of action of acetaminophen is not known. It may reduce the production of prostaglandins in the brain. Prostaglandins are chemicals that cause inflammation and swelling.


I'm personally a fan of the migraine meds that combine acetaminophen, aspirin, and caffeine. Low levels of the combination seems to work well for me. I'm headache prone.


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## Fireform (Dec 15, 2005)

Google acetaminophen and "liver failure" sometime when you have a few minutes to kill.


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## spade2you (May 12, 2009)

Fireform said:


> Google acetaminophen and "liver failure" sometime when you have a few minutes to kill.


It takes a lot of Tylenol to cause liver failure. A lot of that is intentional.


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## 88 rex (Mar 18, 2008)

I don't like to take pain meds all that often, but when I'm doing a 12+ hour race it is really helpful.


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## Fireform (Dec 15, 2005)

spade2you said:


> It takes a lot of Tylenol to cause liver failure. A lot of that is intentional.


Intentional liver failure? Come again?

There are numerous cases caused by only small overdoses (i.e., a few pills over the package dose in 48 hours). No thank you very much.


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## love4himies (Jun 12, 2012)

Fireform said:


> Intentional liver failure? Come again?
> 
> There are numerous cases caused by only small overdoses (i.e., a few pills over the package dose in 48 hours). No thank you very much.


Any medication can kill somebody if they are genetically predisposed to have an adverse reaction to a chemical in the meds. Tylenol is pretty safe for 99.9% of people who take it as directed.


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## spade2you (May 12, 2009)

Fireform said:


> Intentional liver failure? Come again?
> 
> There are numerous cases caused by only small overdoses (i.e., a few pills over the package dose in 48 hours). No thank you very much.


Yes, intentional. Probably the most commonly used drug for intentional overdoses. 

Numerous cases of liver failure in small doses? I'll need to see legit sources for that. They didn't tell me that when I took a few semesters of toxicology.


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## mpre53 (Oct 25, 2011)

love4himies said:


> Any medication can kill somebody if they are genetically predisposed to have an adverse reaction to a chemical in the meds. Tylenol is pretty safe for 99.9% of people who take it as directed.


Or if you've already pickled your liver with booze. Lots of the cases of liver failure---though not all--were in people whose livers already had been damaged by long term alcohol abuse.


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## aclinjury (Sep 12, 2011)

I'm always amazed at the amount of medication an American could have access to and take them. And I have not even touch on the vitamin/supplment stuff. Just the other day, I saw a co-worker (a seemingly healthy male in his late 20s) pop 7 different vitamin pills right before lunch. Guy didn't even bother to take them 1 at a time, he just pop all 7 pills in his mouth and down them. We are really a culture conditioned to think that everything can be cured with pills.


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## Bluenote (Oct 28, 2012)

Heres a medical study, RE: acute liver failure and acetomenephan. (Sorry about my spelling, its a toughie). 

Anyhow, the study basically shows that quite a number of cases of liver failure are from acm. Further, about 50% of those were accidental. The people impacted weren't all drinkers, but many were meds for other health conditions. 

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2659888/pdf/cjg200319.pdf

I'm no Doctor or pharmacist. I'm just jumpy about acm as I've had a number of friends try to OD on it - one successfully. Its a pretty shitty way to die, liver failure over days. 

My general observation is the FDA is trying to deal with the issue by warning people of the dangers of mixing acm products. I think there are also suggestions to reduce the amount of acm in prescription pain meds, such as Vicodin.


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## spade2you (May 12, 2009)

mpre53 said:


> Or if you've already pickled your liver with booze. Lots of the cases of liver failure---though not all--were in people whose livers already had been damaged by long term alcohol abuse.


Technically, binge drinkers are more susceptible to liver failure when combined with too much Tylenol.


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## Local Hero (Jul 8, 2010)

If it's performance enhancing I need to stock up before they pull it from the shelves!


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## headloss (Mar 3, 2013)

Bluenote said:


> My general observation is the FDA is trying to deal with the issue by warning people of the dangers of mixing acm products. I think there are also suggestions to reduce the amount of acm in prescription pain meds, such as Vicodin.


That seems, to me, to be the biggest risk. I've never taken more than the directed amount in pill form... on the other hand, my NyQuil dosage is about as accurate as my calibrated hand + allen wrench, in that I just dump the crap in my mouth until it "feels" like the right dose. Add to that some theraflu which I might take on a particularly bad night of coughing... and I've likely exceeded the recommended dosage without even realizing it.


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## Alfonsina (Aug 26, 2012)

spade2you said:


> Yes, intentional. Probably the most commonly used drug for intentional overdoses.
> 
> Numerous cases of liver failure in small doses? I'll need to see legit sources for that. They didn't tell me that when I took a few semesters of toxicology.


 I think it is a good presentation for pts who need a liver transplant. Much easier for the doc to present the pt as an accidental OD vs a purposeful OD to the transplant team. I think this mythology of accidental overdose is due to creative background info. Pts will say anything if they regret a nasty death by liver failure.


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## Fireform (Dec 15, 2005)

================
"Education of patients, physicians, and pharmacists to limit high-risk [acetaminophen] use settings is recommended," wrote Anne M. Larson, M.D., of the University of Washington, and colleagues at 21 other U.S. centers, in the December issue of Hepatology.

Acetaminophen (Tylenol and generics) is widely available in over-the-counter preparations for headaches, colds, allergies, osteoarthritis, and other conditions.

The data suggest that consistent use of *as little as 7.5 g/day of acetaminophen could lead to severe hepatic injury*, Dr. Larson and colleagues wrote.
================

Maximum dosages of Extra Strength Tylenol and Midol were recently reduced from 4 grams/day to 3. Is double the daily dosage really a deliberate overdose scenario? What if someone is taking Tylenol and Nyquil at the same time, not realizing that both contain acetaminophen?

If you want a hard reference, you could start here: Khandelwal N, James LP, Sanders C, Larson AM, Lee WM; and the Acute Liver Failure Study Group. Unrecognized acetaminophen toxicity as a cause of indeterminate acute liver failure. HEPATOLOGY 2011; 53: 567-576.

I'm sticking with Motrin. If I overdose by a few pills, it's not going to kill me.


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## Alfonsina (Aug 26, 2012)

Motrin is not benign either, overdosing on either is dangerous, if people can't read or do basic math, then maybe they should not mix their meds. Dosage of these drugs is based on mg/kg/day with reference to underlying medical conditions. This info is all easy enough to come across. People kill themselves in all sorts of regrettable ways. Even in Utah I can walk to my local bottle shop and buy enough vodka for less than $50 to like as not kill me. Heck, I suspect that if I was famous enough and ****ed up my liver I could buy me a new one.


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## spade2you (May 12, 2009)

Fireform said:


> ================
> 
> 
> The data suggest that consistent use of *as little as 7.5 g/day of acetaminophen could lead to severe hepatic injury*, Dr. Larson and colleagues wrote.
> =============


How many tablets are in 7.5g?


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## spade2you (May 12, 2009)

Alfonsina said:


> I think it is a good presentation for pts who need a liver transplant. Much easier for the doc to present the pt as an accidental OD vs a purposeful OD to the transplant team. I think this mythology of accidental overdose is due to creative background info. Pts will say anything if they regret a nasty death by liver failure.


It's almost completely reversible if caught early enough and treated with NAC. If treatment is too late and the liver is completely fried, they generally won't live long enough to be on a transplant list. Generally, they'd be extremely low on the transplant list where NASH and other hepatic disorders often don't get transplants due to the shortage.


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## Fireform (Dec 15, 2005)

spade2you said:


> How many tablets are in 7.5g?


15 in a day. You did take arithmetic in school, yes?

And maybe a lot less if you're taking other meds at the same time.


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## Alfonsina (Aug 26, 2012)

spade2you said:


> It's almost completely reversible if caught early enough and treated with NAC. If treatment is too late and the liver is completely fried, they generally won't live long enough to be on a transplant list. Generally, they'd be extremely low on the transplant list where NASH and other hepatic disorders often don't get transplants due to the shortage.


 Sure, but Lou Reed got a liver, Steve Jobs got a liver, and if you are lucky enough to be in the right place at the right time with the right match and a sorry story, you can be listed for a liver after an OD. Imagine this is your 16 yr old daughter who took some tylenol after a fight with her first boyfriend, out of stupidity and spite she takes tylenol. she sure lives long enough to regret it if she failed to let anyone know quickly enough. Most parents would fight tooth and nail to get such a kid listed.


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## Guest (Nov 9, 2013)

spade2you said:


> How many tablets are in 7.5g?


23 regular strength tablets which are 325mg each.


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## spade2you (May 12, 2009)

Fireform said:


> 15 in a day. You did take arithmetic in school, yes?
> 
> And maybe a lot less if you're taking other meds at the same time.


No, all that chemistry and no math whatsoever. Tylenol comes in a few strengths. Even if it only came in 500mg, isn't 15 tablets kinda a lot? 



lighthouse54.1 said:


> 23 regular strength tablets which are 325mg each.


Yup. That's a lot, too eh?


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## spade2you (May 12, 2009)

Alfonsina said:


> Sure, but Lou Reed got a liver, Steve Jobs got a liver, and if you are lucky enough to be in the right place at the right time with the right match and a sorry story, you can be listed for a liver after an OD. Imagine this is your 16 yr old daughter who took some tylenol after a fight with her first boyfriend, out of stupidity and spite she takes tylenol. she sure lives long enough to regret it if she failed to let anyone know quickly enough. Most parents would fight tooth and nail to get such a kid listed.


There are more than a few famous people who have had transplants. Still, the amount of time one would need to get listed and get a match is often longer than a patient with severe liver disease has to live. A lot of the common causes are progressive diseases. Complete liver failure from an APAP OD is often very rapid. Someone who is actively suicidal isn't generally considered a transplant candidate. 

We are very fortunate that the antidote works well if caught early enough.


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## Alex_Simmons/RST (Jan 12, 2008)

Bill2 said:


> Il Paracetamolo tra etica e salute | Bdc-forum.it | Bici da corsa
> If Tylenol is banned will everyone be a doper?


Paracetamol is not on WADA's current monitoring list.

WADA defines what is and isn't doping. Break the doping rules in a sport that adheres to the code and then yes, you would be a doper.


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## Fireform (Dec 15, 2005)

spade2you said:


> No, all that chemistry and no math whatsoever. Tylenol comes in a few strengths. Even if it only came in 500mg, isn't 15 tablets kinda a lot?


How many other medications found in multiple common OTC medicines will put you at risk of organ failure at 2x the recommended dosage?


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## spade2you (May 12, 2009)

Fireform said:


> How many other OTC medications will put you at risk of organ failure at 2x the recommended dosage?


Like Motrin and aspirin?


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## Fireform (Dec 15, 2005)

spade2you said:


> Like Motrin and aspirin?


References?


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## spade2you (May 12, 2009)

Fireform said:


> References?


I do this for a living. As y'all might say, Google is your friend. Better yet, you can also tell us some side effects that often occur at normal doses.


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## Local Hero (Jul 8, 2010)

spade2you said:


> I do this for a living. As y'all might say, Google is your friend. Better yet, you can also tell us some side effects that often occur at normal doses.


The regular: Seizure, coma, death.


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## spade2you (May 12, 2009)

Local Hero said:


> The regular: Seizure, coma, death.


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## Bluenote (Oct 28, 2012)

spade2you said:


> Like Motrin and aspirin?


I'm coming up that Motrin (active ingredient is ibuprofen) is rarely fatal. When it is fatal, we're talking really high levels - 150 tablets for a man. 

Ibuprofen - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Tylenol, you can see how someone can accidentally OD. 

They have chronic pain - arthritis, bum shoulder from football and take tylenol.
They catch a cold and take cold meds with acm in it.

Boom. After a few days they've been at 2x acm for days. 

I can't come up with a scenario where someone accidentally takes 150 Motrin!


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## spade2you (May 12, 2009)

7.5g is a heck of an accident. It's rare to see accidental overdoses at my hospital.

Motrin and aspirin can cause GI bleeds at normal doses.


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## Bluenote (Oct 28, 2012)

spade2you said:


> Like Motrin and aspirin?


I'm coming up similar with aspirin. 

Asprin overdose is rarely fatal. It takes like 300 mg / kg of weight. 
Aspirin poisoning - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

For an +\- 125 pound man (= 55kg) that'd be 16,500 mg of the stuff. Or 33 extra strength aspirin (500 mg dose).


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## spade2you (May 12, 2009)

Bluenote said:


> I'm coming up similar with aspirin.
> 
> Asprin overdose is rarely fatal. It takes like 300 mg / kg of weight.
> Aspirin poisoning - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
> ...


Apparently my teacher was a moron and should have been replaced with Dr. Wiki. Aspirin overdose is bad. It's fortunate that most people these days just use it for for cardio protection and not considered a pain med by the general public.


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## Bluenote (Oct 28, 2012)

spade2you said:


> Apparently my teacher was a moron and should have been replaced with Dr. Wiki. Aspirin overdose is bad. It's fortunate that most people these days just use it for for cardio protection and not considered a pain med by the general public.


Are you also a French Model?

Bluntly, I don't believe carte blanche anything that an anonymous person on the internet says. Trust, but verify. Its nothing personal on you, its just good common sense. _Don't blindly trust people on the internet. _

So, sadly, you - anonymous internet guy - is an even less reputable source than wikipedia. Besides, you told me to go a googleing. How can you know be upset that I ran across sources with less than your awesome credentials? 

Like I said, its nothing personal on you. You're a good dad and thats what matters most. 

But I want to see a link to back up your statements.


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## Bluenote (Oct 28, 2012)

Fireform said:


> How many other medications found in multiple common OTC medicines will put you at risk of organ failure at 2x the recommended dosage?


Heres an interesting article. It talks about the safety index of drugs. The amount needed to get the effects, versus the amount to OD. 

Heroin is the least 'safe' at 6. 
Marijuana Is Far Less Toxic Than Alcohol or Cocaine - Room for Debate - NYTimes.com

Now, I'm not saying acm is more dangerous than heroin. Obviously, it doesn't carry the global risks of addiction, infections from IV injections, etc...


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## spade2you (May 12, 2009)

Bluenote said:


> Are you also a French Model?
> 
> Bluntly, I don't believe carte blanche anything that an anonymous person on the internet says. Trust, but verify. Its nothing personal on you, its just good common sense. _Don't blindly trust people on the internet. _
> 
> ...


I'm not quite skinny enough to be French Model and I don't smoke. 

So I suppose Local Hero should also make citations whenever he states something he knows about practicing law? Y'all can argue with me all ya want. I get that people want to win all arguments, especially MAMILs. Choosing to argue with a pharmacist about medications says a "little".


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## Bluenote (Oct 28, 2012)

spade2you said:


> I'm not quite skinny enough to be French Model and I don't smoke.
> 
> So I suppose Local Hero should also make citations whenever he states something he knows about practicing law? Y'all can argue with me all ya want. I get that people want to win all arguments, especially MAMILs. Choosing to argue with a pharmacist about medications says a "little".


I'd be a fool to say 'oh this guy on the internet says he's a pharmacist. He says people pretty much don't OD on tylenol. So I'm not gonna sweat it, mixing acm products is no big deal.'

I don't believe, carte blanche, that anyone in the internet is who they say they are. LH included. If LH makes a good point (as he often does) he makes a good point. But sometimes I check his statements. (Is that really a legal term, is that really how its applied / defined). 

The MAMILs talking point is nice, but silly. Its not just MAMILs who should be skeptical of anonymous guy on the internet - its everyone. 

So you're a pharmacist. And a French Model. And Manti Te'o's girlfriend. 

How could I possible dare doubt your posts? My skepticism is clearly a sign that I have a severe inferiority complex brought on by being "little", "middle aged" and "wearing lycra."

Yes, you've won. And if you ask, I will send you money, naked pics and my personal info. I will also travel to meet you in a remote location.


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## spade2you (May 12, 2009)

Bluenote said:


> I'd be a fool to say 'oh this guy on the internet says he's a pharmacist. He says people pretty much don't OD on tylenol. So I'm not gonna sweat it, mixing acm products is no big deal.'
> 
> I don't believe, carte blanche, that anyone in the internet is who they say they are. LH included. If LH makes a good point (as he often does) he makes a good point. But sometimes I check his statements. (Is that really a legal term, is that really how its applied / defined).
> 
> ...


There's another RBR memeber who is a pharmacist. Acutally, he's an imposter. 

The interw3b machine has a lot info, but it's hard to say how much of it is credible. Furthermore, most people don't necessarily have much of a background to interpret "studies" unless it suits their agenda.


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## Bluenote (Oct 28, 2012)

spade2you said:


> There's another RBR memeber who is a pharmacist. Acutally, he's an imposter.
> 
> The interw3b machine has a lot info, but it's hard to say how much of it is credible. Furthermore, most people don't necessarily have much of a background to interpret "studies" unless it suits their agenda.


So why'd you send us googling? 

You should have the access to find a solid study, along with a nice summary interpretation in the abstract.

All I'm asking for is a link to back up your statements. Is that so hard?


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## bradkay (Nov 5, 2013)

For others who suffer from frequent headaches, especially migraines, I have been following the advice of my natureopathic doctor who was worried about my reliance on those acetaminophen/aspirin/caffeine pills to control it: she has me taking 500mg of Magnesium daily and it has made a huge difference. I used to suffer from 4-6 migraines a week, now it is maybe one a week. 

BTW: she was concerned about my reliance on those pills even though I found that only one of the pills (250mg acetaminophen/250mg aspirin/60mg caffeine) would last me all day. Maybe she didn't believe me when I said that I only used one a day...


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## spade2you (May 12, 2009)

Bluenote said:


> So why'd you send us googling?
> 
> You should have the access to find a solid study, along with a nice summary interpretation in the abstract.
> 
> All I'm asking for is a link to back up your statements. Is that so hard?


I'm not obligated to provide links at work. Sure as hell not going to do it here. I really don't give to craps if people dismiss everything I post (which they do). I'm not here to impress you guys. Besides, there's enough junk that you can find a counter argument to dang near everything.


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## Bluenote (Oct 28, 2012)

spade2you said:


> I'm not obligated to provide links at work. Sure as hell not going to do it here. I really don't give to craps if people dismiss everything I post (which they do). I'm not here to impress you guys. Besides, there's enough junk that you can find a counter argument to dang near everything.


OK, just post your real name, pic and license number. I'll verify you that way.


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## spade2you (May 12, 2009)

Bluenote said:


> OK, just post your real name, pic and license number. I'll verify you that way.


LOL, I'll get right on top of that.


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## mpre53 (Oct 25, 2011)

Can we get your social security number and banking information, while you're at it? :lol:


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## spade2you (May 12, 2009)

mpre53 said:


> Can we get your social security number and banking information, while you're at it? :lol:


You'll get nude pix of me and YOU'LL LIKE IT!


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## Fireform (Dec 15, 2005)

spade2you said:


> 7.5g is a heck of an accident. It's rare to see accidental overdoses at my hospital.
> 
> Motrin and aspirin can cause GI bleeds at normal doses.


Without responding to any of the rest of your irrelevant silliness, I'll just point out that GI bleeding <<< liver failure. 

And up until late 2011, 7.5 grams was less than double the recommended dose of extra strength Tylenol or Midol.


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## spade2you (May 12, 2009)

Fireform said:


> Without responding to any of the rest of your irrelevant silliness, I'll just point out that GI bleeding <<< liver failure.


Source needed.


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## Fireform (Dec 15, 2005)

spade2you said:


> Source needed.


http://www.m.webmd.com/pain-management/news/20110728/new-dosing-labels-for-extra-strength-tylenol

It's really not that hard, once you get the hang of it.


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## spade2you (May 12, 2009)

Fireform said:


> New Dosing Labels for Extra Strength Tylenol
> 
> It's really not that hard, once you get the hang of it.


Your source does not address if liver failure is worse than a GI bleed.


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## Fireform (Dec 15, 2005)

I know which I would choose.


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## spade2you (May 12, 2009)

Fireform said:


> I know which I would choose.


So you would choose a GI bleed, which has been known to occur with common doses vs. liver failure that generally only occurs when you take a boatload of it?


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## Fireform (Dec 15, 2005)

spade2you said:


> So you would choose a GI bleed, which has been known to occur with common doses vs. liver failure that generally only occurs when you take a boatload of it?


If I have GI bleeding from aspirin, I can stop taking the aspirin and the GI bleeding goes away. If I have liver failure, I can stop taking Tylenol and I still need a liver transplant. You are trying to create a false equivalency here, for reasons known only to yourself.

A friend of mine received the first successful liver transplant in the US. It was not a great deal of fun for him. I'm sure the process has come a long way since then but I still doubt anyone would undergo it for kicks.

I've taken aspirin my whole life an never had a trace of bleeding, FWIW.


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## spade2you (May 12, 2009)

Fireform said:


> I've taken aspirin my whole life an never had a trace of bleeding, FWIW.


Good for you.


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## Bluenote (Oct 28, 2012)

spade2you said:


> You'll get nude pix of me and YOU'LL LIKE IT!


Anthony Weiner, quit trying to sext people. Man, no one is impressed by a pharmacist. Skip the foreplay and just broadcast pictures of your junk. Lol.


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## spade2you (May 12, 2009)

Bluenote said:


> Anthony Weiner, quit trying to sext people. Man, no one is impressed by a pharmacist. Skip the foreplay and just broadcast pictures of your junk. Lol.












Dang it, how come everyone wants to see my unit?!


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## love4himies (Jun 12, 2012)

spade2you said:


> Motrin and aspirin can cause GI bleeds at normal doses.


Yes it does, and anybody who has IBD and doesn't know the risks of Ibuprofen can have serious side effects from it, especially if their IBD is severe.


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## spade2you (May 12, 2009)

Source? (I keed, I keed) 

My main stomping grounds are on a GI surgery floor these days.


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## bbrrxx (Jul 17, 2013)

aclinjury said:


> I'm always amazed at the amount of medication an American could have access to and take them. And I have not even touch on the vitamin/supplment stuff. Just the other day, I saw a co-worker (a seemingly healthy male in his late 20s) pop 7 different vitamin pills right before lunch. Guy didn't even bother to take them 1 at a time, he just pop all 7 pills in his mouth and down them. We are really a culture conditioned to think that everything can be cured with pills.


whats wrong with taking vitamins?


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## nate (Jun 20, 2004)

bbrrxx said:


> whats wrong with taking vitamins?


Most people don't need vitamin supplements outside of what they get through the food they eat. Unless they are recommended based on a specific health problem, people don't generally need them. Vitamins are regulated the same way as herbal supplements, meaning they are allowed to make a lot of claims about their products that aren't proven and overall regulation of the supplement industry is fairly lax.

Here is an example of problems with herbal supplements though I hope we can assume vitamins aren't as bad about including the correct ingredients. It may be hard to know since, like I said, vitamins are regulated as supplements. Are Herbal Supplements A Scam? Study Finds Many Contain 'Contamination And Fillers? Like Powdered Rice And Weeds


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## spade2you (May 12, 2009)

The herbal market is largely unregulated. I'd agree the need for supplements is probably a lot less than most athletes think.


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## Local Hero (Jul 8, 2010)

Is there any evidence that taking a multivitamin (or other supplements) increases life expectancy?


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