# "Track" frame + road fork. Thoughts on geometry?



## PeanutButterBreath (Dec 4, 2005)

I am looking to build up a fixie for commuting and running very short errands around town. Cost constraints plus the desire to have something I can leave locked up in public have me looking at the Pake. I already have a nearly new Nitto quill stem and 1" threadless headset, which I would like to use as well, so I am looking for fork options.

I found a road fork (Tange) which has a 374mm A-C and 50mm of rake. The Pake fork has a 365mm A-C and 38mm of rake. Steering geometry is something I can never quite get my head wrapped around. What influence would the Tange have on the Pake frame, vs. the stock fork?


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## MIN in PDX (Nov 29, 2007)

My fixed gear is classic track geometry (Pista) with a Nashbar 43mm rake carbon fork. Handling improved for me and the ride was better but that could be the carbon vs steel issue rather than the rake differences. 

Axel to crown length needs to remain the same.

Choices for 1" threadless is limited but they include: 
Forte Axis
Nashbar Carbon
Gios
Colnago
Reynolds Ouzo Pro
Cervelo NOS (but they were recalled.)


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## roadfix (Jun 20, 2006)

I run a classic Cinelli road fork (for purpose of running a front brake) on my Cinelli Olympic track frame. Handles fine and is very stable at slow speeds, no handed, for instance.


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## FatTireFred (Jan 31, 2005)

longer fork would also raise the front end & BB slightly, and slacken the angles a bit


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## MIN in PDX (Nov 29, 2007)

FatTireFred said:


> longer fork would also raise the front end & BB slightly, and slacken the angles a bit


Which would defeat the purpose of a track frame.

BTW, PB breath, 50mm rake? Are you sure? They don't make it that long anymore.


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## asterisk (Oct 21, 2003)

This is largely an individual thing. I've ridden frames with road forks swapped in that I felt handled strange while the owner didn't give a second thought to so the best thing you can do is just give it a try. If you hate how it handles, wait till the summer buying rush and sell the road fork and buy a Pake fork.


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## FatTireFred (Jan 31, 2005)

asterisk said:


> This is largely an individual thing. I've ridden frames with road forks swapped in that I felt handled strange while the owner didn't give a second thought to so the best thing you can do is just give it a try. If you hate how it handles, wait till the summer buying rush and sell the road fork and buy a Pake fork.



if he never builds or rides the pake w/original fork, will he notice? I kinda don't think so but I guess you never know


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## PeanutButterBreath (Dec 4, 2005)

MIN in PDX said:


> Which would defeat the purpose of a track frame.
> 
> BTW, PB breath, 50mm rake? Are you sure? They don't make it that long anymore.


The only real purpose is a cheap frame with track ends. If it slackens the angles a bit, I can live with it.

This is the fork: http://aebike.com/page.cfm?PageID=30&action=list&Category=601&Brand=416&type=T. My full specification is 1", threaded, steel, cheap, reasonably compatible with the Pake frame & available from QBP or BTI. That narrows it down to 1 real choice, so I am just trying to see if the result will handle reasonably well for short trips around town.

From what I am hearing, it will work well enough for my purposes.

Thanks all.


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## PeanutButterBreath (Dec 4, 2005)

FatTireFred said:


> if he never builds or rides the pake w/original fork, will he notice? I kinda don't think so but I guess you never know


This is a good point. In fact, I have never ridden true track geometry for more than a couple minutes. It would take something on the far ends of twitchy or choppered for me to notice.


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## asterisk (Oct 21, 2003)

FatTireFred said:


> if he never builds or rides the pake w/original fork, will he notice?


Like I said, depends on personal preference. Maybe not but if someone has lots of prior experience riding a certain frame they may find another to not handle like they expect. I think PBB posts alot in the CX forum so if he's used to a CX bike maybe he'll like the added rake.

Just on a few bikes I've ridden where the chain stays are super short but the fork is kicked way out, it felt different in a bad way but again... personal preference.


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## PeanutButterBreath (Dec 4, 2005)

asterisk said:


> I think PBB posts alot in the CX forum so if he's used to a CX bike maybe he'll like the added rake.


You are probably right. I might want something to tame the 75 degree HTA on the 59.


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## Dave Hickey (Jan 27, 2002)

FatTireFred said:


> if he never builds or rides the pake w/original fork, will he notice? I kinda don't think so but I guess you never know



Bingo.... I have many different bikes and each handles differently... It only takes a few minutes to adjust to each. My guess is PBB won't notice any difference at all since he hasn't ridden a Pake with the Pake fork


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## Dave Hickey (Jan 27, 2002)

MIN in PDX said:


> Axel to crown length needs to remain the same.
> 
> )


This could be difficult if going from a pure track fork to the road fork. The road forks almost always have a longer axle to crown because they need a accomodate a short reach 39mm brake. That distance requires a minimum axle to crown that is usually longer than a track fork. It's my experience that an increase in axle to crown isn't noticable


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## tobu (Dec 19, 2004)

Adding 9mm to AC distance should slightly slacken the steep 75 degree head tube angle. However, a fork rake of 50mm is a lot of rake for a 59cm bike. I'm guessing the trail is going to go down to the point that the bike is on the very twitchy / nervous side.


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## Richard (Feb 17, 2006)

*Agree!*



tobu said:


> Adding 9mm to AC distance should slightly slacken the steep 75 degree head tube angle. However, a fork rake of 50mm is a lot of rake for a 59cm bike. I'm guessing the trail is going to go down to the point that the bike is on the very twitchy / nervous side.


Even with the longer AC distance, you'd still have somewhere near a 74 degree head angle. A 50mm rake fork on that would result in very little trail. I bet you couldn't ride it "no hands!"


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## PeanutButterBreath (Dec 4, 2005)

Richard said:


> Even with the longer AC distance, you'd still have somewhere near a 74 degree head angle. A 50mm rake fork on that would result in very little trail. I bet you couldn't ride it "no hands!"


Well, I will report back next week. My first fixed gear was a frame built for 27" wheels with a 370/43 fork. That must have handled screwy but I never noticed.


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## al415 (Aug 30, 2007)

I had a very similar set up a couple of years ago. My Pake was built up by Trackstar in nyc. It was a perfect bike for noodling around town on, not as twitchy as my panasonic full on track bike. I think you'd be quite happy on it.


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## Applesauce (Aug 4, 2007)

Plug all the numbers into BikeCAD. I definitely wouldn't do it. You're going to reduce your trail by more than a centimeter, and that's a whole lot, in my opinion.

1 cm of axle to crown change, by the way, equals about 1/2° head angle change - not a whole lot, in other words, and certainly not enough to offset your fairly drastic increase in rake.

I've mulled this over a number of times, because I need a cheap track-ish frame, but I'm of the opinion that, at least for my size, which has a 75° HA, the Pake fork has _too much_ rake. I would argue that a 75° HA should beget about a 30 mm rake fork, maybe a little more.

Having said all that, there seems to be a lot of tolerance in the fixed-gear scene for bikes that handle like crap, so maybe your creation would just fit right in. I'm seeing a ton of front ends with slack head angles and low-rake forks so trendsters can spin their bars, but that combination does NOT equal a nice-handling bike - let alone something I would want to ride on bad pavement among cars...


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## PeanutButterBreath (Dec 4, 2005)

Applesauce, I had a feeling that you would dissaprove. The order is in. Fortunately, if it is a mistake it won't be a costly one.


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## ukiahb (Jan 26, 2003)

works OK for me, am using a Tommasini road fork on a Soma Rush and it handles fine....


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