# Why no jerseys for normies??



## n2deep (Mar 23, 2014)

Why is there a lack of great road jerseys for normal size people available at LBSs? Attention store owners, most of us are not a 120 or 150 lbs. I consider myself a normal sized guy (185/5’10”) and hate that most of the Jerseys available in bike stores today are all race fit, even at the larger better stocked stores.. For normal people even the race-fit XXLs look like someone shrink wrapped the stay-puff marshmallow man.  Great jerseys are available on-line from companies like Voler and others but why we are not considered part of the market for LBSs.  Do bike shops just not make enough money off of jerseys?


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## Oxtox (Aug 16, 2006)

fwiw, most BMI charts put you in the 'overweight' not 'normal' category...


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## Jay Strongbow (May 8, 2010)

Seems just the opposite here. For me anyway. Most jerseys I see in shops fit like I'd fit a t-shirt. Not tapered and lose in all the wrong places for cycling.

I think France and Italy being ground zero for bike clothing fashion/fit might have something to do with tight sizing of particular brands. They're a few years behind the US in accepting the new normal for typical body weight.


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## tlg (May 11, 2011)

n2deep said:


> I consider myself a normal sized guy (185/5’10”)


That's the problem.
26.5 BMI isn't normies.
https://www.nhlbi.nih.gov/health/educational/lose_wt/BMI/bmicalc.htm
Overweight = 25–29.9


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## n2deep (Mar 23, 2014)

tlg said:


> That's the problem.
> 26.5 BMI isn't normies.
> https://www.nhlbi.nih.gov/health/educational/lose_wt/BMI/bmicalc.htm
> Overweight = 25–29.9


Yep, a BMI calculator for a stick man, if you meet normal on that scale you may have to jump around in the shower to get wet!!! , No doubt I could loose a few and I might if we ever experience a beer drought..

BTW, I wonder what percentage of customers would be considered "fat" by that scale..


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## CTMike (Dec 16, 2014)

I'm your size and have found Pearl Izumi large jerseys to be roomier and available locally. I have one but rarely wear it as I prefer an Assos medium.


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## Wesquire (May 27, 2015)

tlg said:


> That's the problem.
> 26.5 BMI isn't normies.
> https://www.nhlbi.nih.gov/health/educational/lose_wt/BMI/bmicalc.htm
> Overweight = 25–29.9


Lol. BMI. BMI says I'm obese, but I'm sub 12% bodyfat


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## duriel (Oct 10, 2013)

I would venture to say that at most LBS, most of the jersey's are club fit, not race fit, unless you are at a topend shop.


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## OldChipper (May 15, 2011)

duriel said:


> I would venture to say that at most LBS, most of the jersey's are club fit, not race fit, unless you are at a topend shop.


That's been my experience too and I live in the Denver/Boulder area which is ground zero in the U.S. for elite endurance athletes. I generally have a harder time finding jerseys that fit as tight as I like and I'm 6'1" and 190ish (also "overweight" but also around 12% bodyfat). 

You will definitely have better luck with brands like Pearl Izumi, Specialized, Primal, vs. Euro brands like Castelli, Assos, Sportful though the Assos Mille jerseys have more of a "club" fit. Just for comparison, I wear M in Pearl, Large in Assos, and XL in Castelli and Sportful (one size up in each for bibs - I've got yuge thighs).


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## No Time Toulouse (Sep 7, 2016)

I'm 6'2.5" tall, 165 lbs. In 'regular' t-shirt sizing, I would be an "MT" size, which seems to be as rare as hen's teeth to find anymore. I'm long in the torso, so while I need uncommonly long and thin tops, I can wear regular 34"x34" pants.

finding a jersey with enough length but not too much circumference is difficult. Trying to find a pair of bib shorts that doesn't strangle my _cojones_​ is even more difficult; finding a pair of bib-tights is nearly impossible.


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## duriel (Oct 10, 2013)

No Time Toulouse said:


> Trying to find a pair of bib shorts that doesn't strangle my _cojones_​ is even more difficult; finding a pair of bib-tights is nearly impossible.


Get a sewing machine or have a seamstress extend the straps, it is not that difficult. The jersey... u have problem.


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## ghettocop (Apr 19, 2014)

I used to feel the same way as you, until I put in a whole lot of work, got fit, and lost weight. Now I am proud that I can wear Giordana FRC race-cut stuff proudly. Wouldn't have it any other way. If anything, Jerseys and bibs have gotten bigger over the years to compensate for our American middles. 5'10" 185 might be considered the new American "normal", but it isn't. Keep in mind this is coming from a guy that was resentful of the tight jerseys, and was a frequent wearer of PI/Performance?/LG and other club fit type brands.


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## JCavilia (Sep 12, 2005)

duriel said:


> Get a sewing machine or have a seamstress extend the straps, it is not that difficult. The jersey... u have problem.


For the jersey, you get a large so it's long enough, and have the same seamstress narrow it as needed. Trivial problem.


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## Lombard (May 8, 2014)

Wesquire said:


> Lol. BMI. BMI says I'm obese, but I'm sub 12% bodyfat


Well that's just it. BMI charts don't take in that someone who is muscular should weigh more than someone else of the same height who isn't muscular. I am 5' 10" and weigh around 170lbs. On the BMI charts, this puts me only within 4lbs. of being in the overweight category. I wear bike shorts that are a medium, but usually wear XL jerseys as I like a loose fitting jersey. I also have wider shoulders, so smaller jerseys bind in the armpits.


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## PBL450 (Apr 12, 2014)

You are dealing with an eating disordered sport. Sure, you can be a cyclist and have a healthy relationship with eating and food and the vast majority of cyclists do. But let's face it, getting better means increasing power to weight ratios. Period. When I was an active speed skater I'd spend 6 months lifting like crazy, squat cage primary and a calorie surplus. I'd get to low 190s and 13-14% BF pre-season. In season I'd quickly drop weight and skate at around 175-180. Since I started cycling my weight is 165 and I don't have a season anymore. I'm around 12% BF. Lowest in August after hardest work through summer, but add mtb and trainer. I don't lift any more I just focus on cycling. If I had more time I would add lifting for general health, as it won't help your cycling much, if at all. I have a freakishly long torso and little short legs. Still, I have had no problem getting kit that fits well. Ask on the forum, you'll get a lot of great info, I have... my Assos bibs fit like they were customs. I have jerseys that are just perfect. I just bought a size L wind shell from Canari and it fits perfectly. You might need to do a little homework but what you want is available, it's just a weight weenie sport. Get down to like 155-160 and stuff will start to fit.


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## Lombard (May 8, 2014)

Jay Strongbow said:


> Seems just the opposite here. For me anyway. Most jerseys I see in shops fit like I'd fit a t-shirt. Not tapered and lose in all the wrong places for cycling.
> 
> I think France and Italy being ground zero for bike clothing fashion/fit might have something to do with tight sizing of particular brands. They're a few years behind the US in accepting the new normal for typical body weight.


New normal? The USA is the obesity capital of the world and has been for awhile.


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## Migen21 (Oct 28, 2014)

I feel your pain. I'm 6'5" and weigh 235lbs. 

I'm slim in the shoulders, wide at the hips, and have a long torso.

None of the euro brands make anything that fits. For example, Castelli 3xl is too short in length, and too loose in the shoulders.

I've found a few brands that seem to fit better than others. Pearl Izumi, Endura, Primal, and Pactimo come to mind. Unfortunately, other than PI, these are not available in most stores. 

And BMI is utterly ridiculous. My own family physician dismisses it as outdated and irrelevant. It doesn't even make a good guideline unless you are of a specific body type.


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## Mahatma Kane (Oct 25, 2005)

Every time BMI comes up people start posting about how stupid and irrelevant it is. But you are fighting a straw man. The BMI scale was never meant to be applied to individuals. It was meant to assess populations. It only became popular because it is a very easy calculation to make. 
Just to clarify, I will give an example of how the BMI scale is used. During the 2009 H1N1 influenza "pandemic," it was found that that a large number of the hospitalizations with H1NI flu were people with a BMI of 30 and above. This then led to studies that explored the relationship between obesity and seasonal influenza. So those relatively rare people (compared to the general population) with low body fat, yet in the BMI obese category, do not affect statistics such as these.


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## Migen21 (Oct 28, 2014)

Mahatma Kane said:


> Every time BMI comes up people start posting about how stupid and irrelevant it is. But you are fighting a straw man. The BMI scale was never meant to be applied to individuals. It was meant to assess populations. It only became popular because it is a very easy calculation to make.
> Just to clarify, I will give an example of how the BMI scale is used. During the 2009 H1N1 influenza "pandemic," it was found that that a large number of the hospitalizations with H1NI flu were people with a BMI of 30 and above. This then led to studies that explored the relationship between obesity and seasonal influenza. So those relatively rare people (compared to the general population) with low body fat, yet in the BMI obese category, do not affect statistics such as these.


Which is exactly why it shouldn't be used to tell someone who thinks they should be able to wear 'normal' cycling jerseys that they aren't 'normal.


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## Mahatma Kane (Oct 25, 2005)

Migen21 said:


> Which is exactly why it shouldn't be used to tell someone who thinks they should be able to wear 'normal' cycling jerseys that they aren't 'normal.


Agreed


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## jetdog9 (Jul 12, 2007)

I'm 5'10" and my weight varies between 175-185, up until the last six months I spent a year plus in the mid-to-high 180s. Almost every single brand's L fits me perfect (including that period where I weighed a bit more), especially Pearl Izumi and Craft. Maybe Castelli usually feels a little tighter than I'd like but it still works. REI Novarra jerseys fit okay. 

Maybe you just need to get a little more used to the feel of a road jersey, they are supposed to be a little tight...

Check out Craft.


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## ddave12000 (Aug 16, 2013)

jetdog9 said:


> I'm 5'10" and my weight varies between 175-185, up until the last six months I spent a year plus in the mid-to-high 180s. Almost every single brand's L fits me perfect (including that period where I weighed a bit more), especially Pearl Izumi and Craft. Maybe Castelli usually feels a little tighter than I'd like but it still works. REI Novarra jerseys fit okay.
> 
> Maybe you just need to get a little more used to the feel of a road jersey, they are supposed to be a little tight...
> 
> Check out Craft.


I agree. It really all depends on what you're looking for. I'm 6'3" and weigh 185. I wear large in race cut and yeah, they're tight, but they're supposed to be. Don't want any parts flapping or moving around when they're not supposed to be. If you want something more loose, get club fit stuff or size up.


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## dcorn (Sep 1, 2011)

Jerseys are meant to be fairly tight to be aero. I don't fit the super slender body type of a cyclist either (5'11", 205), but I hate a flappy jersey. I'd say I'm a normal person and I fit into 'race fit' or 'club fit' Larges and X-larges perfectly. Some jerseys stretch and look better than others. XL Castelli jerseys are a perfect fit for me, I have a few older L's from when I rode more and they are basically race fit haha. 

If you want your jersey's to fit like a T-shirt, buy Primal or the low end brands at Performance Bike and the like. But that's not how 'normal' cyclists wear their clothes. 


And yeah, BMI is especially ridiculous when talking about athletes . I'm borderline obese by the BMI chart.


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## PBL450 (Apr 12, 2014)

BMI is just a data point. It isn't good or bad, it's data. Assigning value to higher or lower is going to have outliers. All (most) data has outliers. Is it a useful data point in aggregate or for the standard deviations nearest the mean? Sure. Should PhDs in public health be going, "ya know, Mike Finch in Springfield lifts weights and has low BF but a high BMI. Let's throw this kind of data out." Obesity kills in a brutal slow and crushing manner. It's awful. It makes smoking look like like an easy out. You can just watch the body slowly collapsing in on itself joint after joint, and the eventual diabetes related complications, congestive heart failure... I don't know the data well enough yet, but perhaps the low BF hi BMI folks are headed toward similar kinds of deterioration? It's a good question at the very least...


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## arai_speed (Aug 19, 2003)

The jerseys that I see when I visit Performance Bike all appear to be for "normies".

Boutique/small bike shops seem to carry very little inventory or what they do carry is race-fit etc.

I imagine they make little on them or people use them simply to try on clothing and order online.


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## smokersteve (May 22, 2016)

I would have to agree with others that 20-25 lbs overweight is not normal. It might be considered normal in America but it's not


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## Oxtox (Aug 16, 2006)

smokersteve said:


> I would have to agree with others that 20-25 lbs overweight is not normal. It might be considered normal in America but it's not


yep, no matter how much they want to think being chunky is 'normal,' they're still overweight.

just own it...


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## Migen21 (Oct 28, 2014)

smokersteve said:


> I would have to agree with others that 20-25 lbs overweight is not normal. It might be considered normal in America but it's not


Is the OP in America? Who gets to decide what is 'normal' ? 

We've already discussed that BMI is only applicable to certain body types, but even considering that, the OP is at the top end of the 'normal' range for his height on some BMI scales. 

I think the OP's point is, at 5' 10" and 185lbs he is a* fairly average sized person for his weight *(even if it's not ideal), so why is it so hard to find jerseys that fit?

This Robert Forstemann. He is 5' 9" and weighs 200lbs. I wonder what his BMI is? I'm guessing the german cycling team gets him his jerseys custom made...


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## velodog (Sep 26, 2007)

The "norm" is a variable.


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## Oxtox (Aug 16, 2006)

Migen21 said:


> This Robert Forstemann. He is 5' 9" and weighs 200lbs.


there's nothing 'normal' about that dude...


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## BCSaltchucker (Jul 20, 2011)

smokersteve said:


> I would have to agree with others that 20-25 lbs overweight is not normal. It might be considered normal in America but it's not


but still a trivial amount overweight


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## Migen21 (Oct 28, 2014)

Oxtox said:


> there's nothing 'normal' about that dude...


Other than the size of his freakish thighs, which has nothing to do with jersey fit, he doesn't seem terribly disproportionate to me....


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## dcorn (Sep 1, 2011)

Migen21 said:


> Other than the size of his freakish thighs, which has nothing to do with jersey fit, he doesn't seem terribly disproportionate to me....


I'd say he's quite an abnormal body shape for cycling. 

But again, you can see how the stretch of the jersey comes into play. His jersey is super stretched around his shoulders and arms, but loose around the waist. So even he doesn't get the perfect fit. I find tighter jerseys to be better than looser. If you like your cycling clothes loose, you need to buy much lower end brands that cater to that style. If you are looking for high end brands, just buy a bigger size because they don't make anything but race/team fit.


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## pmf (Feb 23, 2004)

No Time Toulouse said:


> finding a jersey with enough length but not too much circumference is difficult. Trying to find a pair of bib shorts that doesn't strangle my _cojones_​ is even more difficult; finding a pair of bib-tights is nearly impossible.


I've got the opposite problem -- I'm shorter, but have large shoulders, chest and thighs from weight lifting. 

Boure clothing will do custom clothes for 25% extra. It's owned by Ned Overend in Durango CO. They make nice stuff and its reasonably priced. I recently had them make me a custom jacket and it was perfect. They're nice people to deal with. Other than being a satisfied customer, I have no stake in them. 

Custom Sizing Information - Bouré Bicycle Clothing


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## David Loving (Jun 13, 2008)

Boure is the best. All my stuff comes from Boure.


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## Terrasmak (Jan 8, 2015)

Oversized is defiantly normal for the US, finding gear at 6'1 170 is not easy. Even just a pair or 32x34 jeans is extremely hit or miss. Reverse that , 34x32 , plenty and everywhere.


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## BikeLayne (Apr 4, 2014)

I just buy stuff from Nashbar. I do not want a team poser jersey so I just wear stuff without all that. However I have had to return more jerseys then I have kept as you never know whats up with fit. I have 2 new jerseys that fit nice that I recently purchased and I just bought a wind breaker that fits not quite optimum but another size would not fix it. I wore it today as it was raining a bit and I like it.


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## RobotGuy (Mar 15, 2017)

I have he same problem with modern jerseys. I'm not over weight (see below), but i just don't want to dress like a sausage wrapped in a billboard. So I've taken to just wearing my running shirts, which are fitted just not skin tight. I just wish they had the pouch that cycling jerseys have.

And for all of you incorrectly using BMI, you do realize that BMI is not intended to determine an individual's level of fatness. True, it does seem like the average person does use it this way, but remember half of all people have below average intelligence.

BMI was designed solely for comparing populations (such as city to city or region to region). It works because it eliminates the problem of people with above average musculature, etc by simply averaging them out across a population.

For instance, I'm 6', 190lbs and 15% body fat, but come in as 'over weight', which is silly.


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## bradkay (Nov 5, 2013)

A friend of mine lives in Richmond, VA and after the 2015 World's he found a tent where some of the teams were selling off that year's kits. As he was digging through the choices and "normal" sized American guy who was next to him said "Why don't they have stuff to fit regular people? All these are sized to fit little Spanish climbing monkeys.."


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## ziscwg (Apr 19, 2010)

RobotGuy said:


> I have he same problem with modern jerseys. I'm not over weight (see below), but i just don't want to dress like a sausage wrapped in a billboard. So I've taken to just wearing my running shirts, which are fitted just not skin tight. I just wish they had the pouch that cycling jerseys have.
> 
> And for all of you incorrectly using BMI, you do realize that BMI is not intended to determine an individual's level of fatness. True, it does seem like the average person does use it this way, but remember half of all people have below average intelligence.
> 
> ...


Dude, yuz fat, just admit it.


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## kbwh (May 28, 2010)

This thread is really ballooning.


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