# Help - First roadbike - Carbon frame or better components?



## dcprez (Aug 24, 2011)

Help please!

For the same price, Carbon frame with 105 components? Or just a aluminum frame with carbon fork with Ultegra components? What would you do?

(likelihood that I would be upgrading components down the road is pretty slim)

Thanks in advance!


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## jpaschal01 (Jul 20, 2011)

Go with the one that you like the best.


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## jsidney (Aug 24, 2011)

Some of us don't know enough to make an informed decision.


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## terbennett (Apr 1, 2006)

jpaschal01 said:


> Go with the one that you like the best.


Exactly but don't feel that you have to have a carbon bike or better components. A 105 equipped aluminum bike might be the bike you end up liking. I would take a 105 equipped CAAD10 over most $2,000 carbon bikes. I would take the difference and buy accessories with it...... Maybe even better wheels. However, if you were to consider a carbon bike around $2,000, a Felt F5 will offer you the best frame for the money. However that will be based on whether or not it fits.


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## AndrwSwitch (May 28, 2009)

Whether you want to or not, sooner or later you're going to replace components. They wear out. You don't need to do stupid upgrades, and you'll probably be very happy with 1:1 replacements, almost exclusively of wear components, if you go 105.

I'd ride them both a few times and buy my favorite. I'd be somewhat inclined toward the better frame. Barring accident or a very powerful rider riding very hard, bike frames have a service life in the decades. Nothing that moves can match that. The road bike I've owned the longest is a '99 model, bought new in 2000. I've had to replace the shifters, several chains, cassettes and tires, the rims, countless brake pads, finally the rear derailleur... The frame itself could use some touch-up paint but it's otherwise fine. Granted it's steel, but with the oldest carbon frames on the road being models made in the '80s, I wouldn't be too worried about it as a long-lasting material. The big caveat, with all materials, is that the frame needs to have been designed well in the first place.


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## PJ352 (Dec 5, 2007)

The frameset is the heart of a bike, dictating fit, handling and (to some extent) ride, with everything else bolting to it (and eventually being replaced/ upgraded), so my advice is to place the priority on *it*. 

Have the LBS(s) tweak fit on the bikes of interest, equalize tire pressures, then head out on the roads for test rides focusing on fit, feel, ride and handling. Ride them as close to 'back to back' as possible. 

The bike that you don't want to bring back to the shop 'just yet', wins.


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## ddimick (Aug 9, 2011)

I rode an aluminum frame bike with a carbon fork for a year and just switched to an all-carbon bike a couple weeks ago.

Carbon soaks up bumps in the road far better than aluminum. I can ride longer in greater comfort and feel less fatigued.

If I had to choose aluminum with Ultegra or carbon with 105, I would take the carbon.


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## dcprez (Aug 24, 2011)

Thanks for the advice. I can hardly tell the difference between the two so far (besides the weight difference of the carbon framed bike). One person told me they'd take the Aluminum+Ultegra over the carbon frame+105, but I'm thinking I could upgrade components later if I really wanted. But at this price, the likelihood upgrading bikes in the next few years is VERY slim. Again, very new to this. Thanks!


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## Akez (Aug 13, 2011)

What bikes?


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## dcprez (Aug 24, 2011)

Scattante r670 versus Scattante comp shimano 5700 is my latest comparison.


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## psycleridr (Jul 21, 2005)

ddimick said:


> I rode an aluminum frame bike with a carbon fork for a year and just switched to an all-carbon bike a couple weeks ago.
> 
> Carbon soaks up bumps in the road far better than aluminum. I can ride longer in greater comfort and feel less fatigued.
> 
> If I had to choose aluminum with Ultegra or carbon with 105, I would take the carbon.


Ride quality can be largely influenced by bike geometry as well as material. Aluminum bike can be made to ride just as smooth as carbon, plus wheels, tires, bar tape play a huge part in this.

Point of this is you should get the white one cause everyone knows it's the fastest color


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## misterha (Aug 17, 2011)

If you're working on a budget remember to think about pedals, shoes, water bottle cages, etc if money isnt an issue which ever bike feels it its most comfortable is the one to go with


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## rraymonddd (Aug 26, 2011)

carbon frame


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## dcprez (Aug 24, 2011)

Definitely on a budget, expecting to pay at least 600, seems like I have to jump to 900 to get 105 components, but I stretch it a little more (I know, this doesn't sound like I'm definitely on a budget) may be able to could get a carbon frame or Ultegra.

Don't know if enough about self repairs to go used.
Understand that fit and liking the bike (and getting a white bike) is important.
Pseudo-budget doesn't need to cover the extras - I'll be salvaging that from another bike for now.

Thanks again for the advice and opinions.


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## ddimick (Aug 9, 2011)

Re: used and repairs, you can always take a used bike into a shop for repair. They'll charge you for it just like everyone else.


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## dcprez (Aug 24, 2011)

I'm not against used - I just don't know enough about bikes to know if it's a good deal or spot a significant flaw.


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## PJ352 (Dec 5, 2007)

dcprez said:


> I'm not against used - I just don't know enough about bikes to know if it's a good deal or spot a significant flaw.


I'm of the mind that used bikes _can_ be a good deal, but yours is a valid concern. If someone isn't knowledgeable of sizing/ fit issues or the mechanics of bikes, IMO/E when budget/ price range allow, it's best to depend on those that are - usually LBS's. 

There are ways to minimize the risks, but unless the buyer has a friend/ acquaintance as a resource, they just add the step of bringing bikes of interest to shops to assess their overall condition. The better shops will also offer an opinion on size as well. Some charge for these services, and that has to be factored into total cost as well.


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## AndrwSwitch (May 28, 2009)

If you do your own maintenance, you probably already know enough.

The most likely problem a used bike will have is that the person who owns it, while they only rode it occasionally, didn't maintain it. Look for stretched chains. If the bike shifts fine and the chain is fine, the drivetrain's okay. If the bike doesn't shift fine or the chain is stretched, there could be some expensive problems for you to fix. And, it's hard to identify what they are without putting on a new chain. (Well, with an old bike and new chain, it's easier to identify.)

Give the wheels a spin. If they appear true, they're sufficiently true. Squeeze the front brake lever and rock the bike. Almost all bikes have a little flex, but there shouldn't be any play - this would be a knocking sensation. Try to move the wheels laterally. A little flex is common, play may mean the hub is toast. Turn the crank with your fingers, and try to move the crank laterally in two positions. It should be smooth and there should be no play. There may be a little seal drag; that's no biggie. Twist the fork. It should be smooth. If you tilt the bike, the headset should be free enough to let the front wheel flop. There should be no play in the derailleurs. Look for cracking near the dropouts and welds.

If you find any of this stuff, evaluating the condition of the bike does begin to require more knowledge, so if you're not confident, just walk away at this point. I've always thought the best deal going, for someone who wants to buy a functioning bike to ride, is used from a shop that specializes in that and stands behind its sales for at least a month. While you don't get to start from zero wear, you do at least start with zero mechanical problems.

What are you riding now?


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## ezrida (Aug 20, 2011)

I would probably go with the better frame as it will last you much longer than the components. Cheaper to replace the worn out piece than to buy a new frame (sometimes)


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## dcprez (Aug 24, 2011)

For now, not doing my own maintenance beyond flat repairs, pedals, and anything with a quick release on the mountain bike -- for now. So most likely sticking with something new.

Folks around me are good for helping with golf clubs, a good steakhouse, wine, or cigars. But as far as road bikes go, not much help


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## psycleridr (Jul 21, 2005)

I would really be hesitant to say that the carbon frame here is necessarily the better one. I would honestly just try to ride both and get the one that feels better. I do think the ultegra components are going to feel better, smoother, quicker than the 105 but I doubt many people could if you debadged the stuff. Also, at this level not sure about the frames being too different. I have ridden some lower end carbon frames and they did not feel as good as my aluminum bike at the time. 
I guess I just do not get why many people automatically say the carbon over the Alu without knowing which bikes they actually are.
Long story short. Ride both and get one that you like more. Don't get hung up on materials or components cause it really is all good stuff


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## vontress (Jul 19, 2009)

I'm assuming this is through Performance bikes. If it is, they almost always have great sales. You can shave 20% off off their bikes fairly regularly. You might ask when the next sale is popping up. Just my thoughts on your budget.


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## ddimick (Aug 9, 2011)

psycleridr said:


> I would really be hesitant to say that the carbon frame here is necessarily the better one. I would honestly just try to ride both and get the one that feels better. I do think the ultegra components are going to feel better, smoother, quicker than the 105 but I doubt many people could if you debadged the stuff. Also, at this level not sure about the frames being too different. I have ridden some lower end carbon frames and they did not feel as good as my aluminum bike at the time.
> I guess I just do not get why many people automatically say the carbon over the Alu without knowing which bikes they actually are.
> Long story short. Ride both and get one that you like more. Don't get hung up on materials or components cause it really is all good stuff


I said carbon is more comfortable than alum because I've ridden a Sirrus alum frame/carbon fork and a Sirrus alum frame/carbon fork/carbon stays. Very clear difference in ride quality with the same wheels and tires. Not subtle at all. More to your point, I think, my full carbon bike feels about the same as that second Sirrus.

But, that's just my experience and as you said, ride everything you can. Nothing like direct knowledge vs. a bunch of Internet armchair quarterbacks.


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## NJBiker72 (Jul 9, 2011)

I'd go Carbon. 105's are ok. I would not go less in the Shimano line. 

My first real road bike was a Specialized Secteur Sport. Aluminum with Sora but plenty smooth. 

Recently upgraded to Tarmac w/ Red. 

If I had gone with a Tarmac originally I would have just switched the groupset. 

That said I probably would have bought the Roubaix because I really didn't know what was right for me. As you probably don't either. 

So maybe the answer is to go a little cheaper in case your opinion changes after a year or two of riding.


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## dcprez (Aug 24, 2011)

Yes, through Performance. The sale is bringing the carbon bike with 105 components into my price range, otherwise I'd be priced out.

I can feel a difference going from the aluminum to carbon. I can't really feel the difference between the 105 and Ultegra (I know I don't like Tiagra design). 

So leaning towards carbon+105, trying others bikers/brands out, appreciating the opinions. As I mentioned before, first road bike purchase, trying to get it as right as I can the first time, so looking for the big gotchas. From what I'm hearing, fit fit fit, and try to get at least 105 components.


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## psycleridr (Jul 21, 2005)

There is no wrong choice. Just the choice right now. Regardless of how much you like whichever bike you get you are going to want something lighter, smoother, faster in a year or two. We all do. So get what feels right now and let us know


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## dcprez (Aug 24, 2011)

Favorite so far has been the Scattante CFR (feels good, gets me 105 components, responsive I'm guessing because of the reduced weight from carbon frame). Got a little Scattante bashing from the other bike shops. If I want this bike to last, should I try to avoid Scattante?

2010 Scattante CFR Comp Shimano 5700 Road Bike - Great Savings on Tour Specials

Others, 
Felt z85 same price (gets me 105, feels as good but not quite as responsive)
Giant defy (feels about the same - but might not be able to get 105 for same price)


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## psycleridr (Jul 21, 2005)

dcprez said:


> Favorite so far has been the Scattante CFR (feels good, gets me 105 components, responsive I'm guessing because of the reduced weight from carbon frame). Got a little Scattante bashing from the other bike shops. If I want this bike to last, should I try to avoid Scattante?
> 
> 2010 Scattante CFR Comp Shimano 5700 Road Bike - Great Savings on Tour Specials
> 
> ...


I would not go less than 105/rival/centaur or daytona (I think? Not a campy guy) so I would say the Giant is out IMO.
As to the felt or Scattante what do you want out of the bike? If you plan on racing maybe you want the more responsive bike like the Scattante. Maybe you just want to ride long and do gran fondos and tours on which case the Felt maybe better. This is not to say that you can't do both on either bike. 
Since this is your first road bike you may think you know but end up getting into other stuff as many of us do once we start riding a lot. I still think w/e you get you will likely want something else in a few years as you will have a better understanding of bikes, your mad skillz, your aspirations etc. Totally normal so get what feels best right now and tell the snobs who say anything about Scattante to shove it up their arse ;-)


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## NJBiker72 (Jul 9, 2011)

psycleridr said:


> I would not go less than 105/rival/centaur or daytona (I think? Not a campy guy) so I would say the Giant is out IMO.
> As to the felt or Scattante what do you want out of the bike? If you plan on racing maybe you want the more responsive bike like the Scattante. Maybe you just want to ride long and do gran fondos and tours on which case the Felt maybe better. This is not to say that you can't do both on either bike.
> Since this is your first road bike you may think you know but end up getting into other stuff as many of us do once we start riding a lot. I still think w/e you get you will likely want something else in a few years as you will have a better understanding of bikes, your mad skillz, your aspirations etc. Totally normal so get what feels best right now and tell the snobs who say anything about Scattante to shove it up their arse ;-)


Good advice. Just upgraded from a Secteur to a Tarmac. Not a racer so I always thought plush but after riding for a couple of years that's not what suited me. 

To the OP, I have a friend with the Felt and have done some charity rides with him. It's a real nice bike. I used to be a bit jealous.


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## mvallejo (Aug 31, 2011)

NJBiker72 said:


> Good advice. Just upgraded from a Secteur to a Tarmac. Not a racer so I always thought plush but after riding for a couple of years that's not what suited me.
> 
> To the OP, I have a friend with the Felt and have done some charity rides with him. It's a real nice bike. I used to be a bit jealous.


Yes, definitely some good info there.


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## tasdevl (Aug 21, 2011)

FWIW, I bought the same bike (the 2010 5700 Cfr Comp) as my first road bike a few weeks ago, and have been pretty happy with it so far - just switch the pads out to koolstops if you get it, those tektro stock pads are surprisingly bad. :thumbsup:


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## dcprez (Aug 24, 2011)

Thanks for the first hand review. Not sure where you are and what price you got, but in the past two weeks here they dropped $100 so you may be able to get that back with their price policy. Online and local shops have it at $1149 I think. 

Thanks, probably pullimg the Trigger this weekend after one more comparison


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## tasdevl (Aug 21, 2011)

I'm in the DC area - I bought it 3 weeks ago at 1249, pricematched at 1149 two weeks ago, now this week they have it for 1149 minus 15% - tried to pricematch it again since their policy says explicitly any time in 90 days, but got a startling amount of attitude from the store manager for even walking in the door to ask, his delightful attitude made me remember why I really dislike dealing with performance  The online folks said stores can set whatever policy they want, as they are somewhat of a separate entity.


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## dcprez (Aug 24, 2011)

Where did you see the extra 15%? I've had better luck with Gaithersburg than Rockville. You could return and rebuy if you really wanted right? Not trying to nickle and dime them too much, but I've bought 4 bikes from them.

Point me to an extra 15% off and I'll pass a bit your way, need some co2 cartridges or anything


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## tasdevl (Aug 21, 2011)

Extra 15% is right on their website (add the bike to your cart and go to check out, you'll see the final amount), also when I went to the Rockville store yesterday it was plastered all over the store. 

I actually had less luck at Gaithersburg in terms of being sold on a 2011 for $1499, and not being told that they had a 2010 in stock at Rockville, even after they called them. I go to the Gaithersburg one more often though since it's been good for service, and it's only 5 minutes from my house.

I considered doing the return and rebuy, but the guy with the attitude appears to be the manager, and apparently they can assess a "wear and tear" fee on returns, and I have no doubt I'd get screwed in the end. I have to return it to Rockville since I did the 6 months interest free through there. I decided to move on and enjoy the bike  If you buy from them though, ask them how many times you can pricematch! :thumbsup:


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## dcprez (Aug 24, 2011)

Couldn't get the extra 15% at gaithersburg. Now it says clearance (the scattante comp) is excluded. One guy there said a couple of days ago it didn't exclude clearance but the manager (same guy that helped me on a prior purchase that rockville wouldn't budge on) denied it and said it wouldn't have happened on that bike. Oh well, almost pulled the trigger, back to one more comparison. Thanks though. Sounds like you got it for as low as it's going to get.


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## tasdevl (Aug 21, 2011)

Oh man, sorry to hear that. When I add it to my cart online now it does not show the discount, but it did on Friday, because I printed it out and took it into the store. I'm surprised they don't just want to clear out old stock at this point. Of course with it being performance, who knows what price it will be next week.


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## Hawkyyz (Aug 13, 2011)

I bought the same bike (2010 Scattante CFR Comp 5700) about 3 weeks ago for $1,150. I saw it listed two days ago on their website for the same price with an extra 15% off and took my receipt to the local store in LA and they gladly refunded the 15% with no questions asked. Still, $1,150 is a steel for this bike! I upgraded from a 12 year old aluminum road bike with Ultegra components and this new bike is sooo much smoother and responsive. I have put about 200 miles on it in a couple of weeks and love every mile. For me, this bike was the right choice for the right price!


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## dcprez (Aug 24, 2011)

Thanks, I was there friday and didn't see the sale. Oh well, still seems like a good bike at $1150. Thanks for the feedback!


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## ecub (Sep 2, 2011)

Pick the frame, which gives you the best ride/feel. You can always change components around.


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## tasdevl (Aug 21, 2011)

dcprez, now it's $999 online for the cfr comp with the 105 5600 components, although only in size 58.


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## dcprez (Aug 24, 2011)

Looks like that may be the Tiagra version (5600). The 5700 still shows $1149 for me. 

I pulled the trigger anyway. Basic fit seemed inadequate - eyeballed the seat height, set it, sent me on my way. On my first ride, seat was twisting out of place and I'm pretty sure lowered (probably going to get a more comprehensive fit somewhere else later). Oh well, otherwise happy with the bike and price - especially after using their club points from the purchase cover the cost of some extra gear.

Thanks though! Maybe see you out there on Great Seneca


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## ezrida (Aug 20, 2011)

Agreed, i think they should've made sure the bike was shifting properly, and everything in the correct position. That's the disadvantage with going with a big mega store vs a lbs (more personal attention) But not to worry you still have your 30 day post purchased tune up, they can do it at that time. Prob. shoud get a torque wrench for the carbon frame. Happy riding. PICS please.


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## tasdevl (Aug 21, 2011)

Congrats! The fit for me was a joke too, they had a trainer set up in the store they could have used but never even suggested going anywhere near it, just took my money and sent me on my way, I guess that's what you can expect from a national chain. I'm looking at Proteus over here in College Park to do a fit, since I know I'm in all kinds of wrong position - I'm not sure where else would do a great job of it locally. 

The 5600 is the previous 105 group from 2010 as I understand it - they upgraded the cassette and the derailleurs for our model to the 2011 5700 but left the brifters as 5600 (kind of annoying, I would have preferred it to be all 5700).


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## ezrida (Aug 20, 2011)

they will not use/put you on it unless you asked or they need to convince you to buy the bike. You can bring the bike back there and ask them for a fit, which they most likely will do it. (for free) If you haven't bought it a long time (within 30 days) then bring it back and tell them that it's not fitting properly (ie. what's not right) and they will adjust for you
The trade off in service is for the great price (sometimes) 
Pics please!!! Happy riding


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## psycleridr (Jul 21, 2005)

Congrats on the ride! Now post some pics as required and let us know what you are looking for for the next one ;-)


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## dcprez (Aug 24, 2011)

Thanks for all the help!


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## tasdevl (Aug 21, 2011)

You might want to check the rear dropout on the right side - I just dropped my rear wheel out because the rear derailleur looked out of line, and discovered where the derailleur hanger meets the frame is a bit of a mess, and looks to have been manufactured that way. The screws are not flush at all, I think I might be taking mine back to PB tomorrow morning for a chat about this.


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