# Firecrest 202/303 opinions/experience



## FasterStronger (Jun 6, 2014)

I ride a giant defy advanced with 105 - all stock. I like my bike and have been thinking about buying some wheels - my area is a mix of flat with some rollers and smallish climbs on average about 300-500 meters per ride - other rides can be relatively flat. I weigh +/- 200 lbs. 
a local shop has a really good deal on all the firecrest wheels and I am looking for feedback on the 202 or 303. 
Mi am not a fast rider - average speed forms on a metric with minimal climbing is 27 kph depending on the wind. I can wind up to 35-37 for bursts of a few minutes - not sure if I qualify to benefit from aero wheels but am still interested to hear about people's experiences with these wheels. Thx


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## ericm979 (Jun 26, 2005)

Unless you're racing (where small advantages can sometimes make a difference) or just want to spend money there's not much reason to get CF rims.

With that little elevation gain per ride you'd get more benefit from deeper more aero rims like 404s.


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## FasterStronger (Jun 6, 2014)

Thanks Eric.
They have all the firecrest on sale - I am guessing with the release of the fire strike series - they are clearing these out?


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## tvad (Aug 31, 2003)

ericm979 said:


> With that little elevation gain per ride you'd get more benefit from deeper more aero rims like 404s.


+1.

Based on your present physical condition, riding distances, speeds, and components, I think Zipp Firecrest wheels are overkill.

That said, they're _bling_, and very nice wheels (IMO), and if it's a deal that's too good to pass up (have you done your online research to see the prices available elsewhere...like PBK or Texascyclesport.com?), and you just plain want them, then it's your call.

Honestly, I think the better way to go with Zipps is to buy the rims and have custom wheels built with hubs from DT Swiss, White Industries, or Chris King. Perhaps the Firecrest rims are being discounted as well as complete factory wheels. I recommend calling Wheelbuilder.com and asking them (call...don't send an email...you'll get a better deal).


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## Notvintage (May 19, 2013)

ericm979 said:


> Unless you're racing (where small advantages can sometimes make a difference) or just want to spend money there's not much reason to get CF . .


I would more accurately say "pro racing," as in paid to ride. Amateur racing? Who gives a crap. But buying for bling is fine too. I do it frequently. If no one did, all this stuff would be insanely expensive. Get them for a good price? Hell yea, enjoy.


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## frisbie17 (Jan 17, 2012)

I had a set of 2014 303/404 Zipp Firecrest. I loved them. Great set of wheels. This year I am running Enve 6.7. So far they are amazing. I only run Chris King R45 hubs.


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## looigi (Nov 24, 2010)

Notvintage said:


> ... If no one did, all this stuff would be insanely expensive...


Yes. $2700+ for a set of bicycle wheels is totally sane.


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## Jay Strongbow (May 8, 2010)

I don't really 'get' the 202's. They're not real aero (an assumption on my part based on the depth) or real light so as compared to a high quality alloy wheel set the best I can tell is what you get for the extra $1700 is an insignificant improvement in aero, inferior hubs and braking concerns.

It sounds like at your stage of development as a cyclist you don't stand to gain anything from the 303s (or any deep rim). 

By all means get some nice wheels if that's what you want but if you want to be practical about it and not just base it on looks and trends I'd suggest something like Hed Rims and White Industry hubs with Cx Ray spokes. Not that those will make you faster but you might appreciate the wide rim and they'll last for ever and be good for all sorts of riding.

If you haven't gotten high end tires yet that's the best way to get some real improvement (I'm assuming the stock tires on you bike suck because they almost always do on any bike)


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## frisbie17 (Jan 17, 2012)

looigi said:


> Yes. $2700+ for a set of bicycle wheels is totally sane.


Sanity when it comes to cost is all relative to an individuals income and wealth. For some people it is absolutely insane to spend $2700 on a set of wheels. I understand that. For others it is not that much. It all has to do with the opportunity cost of buying the wheels. If a person makes enough that it does not impact other purchases... It is not at all insane to spend that much on bike wheels.


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## Jay Strongbow (May 8, 2010)

frisbie17 said:


> Sanity when it comes to cost is all relative to an individuals income and wealth. For some people it is absolutely insane to spend $2700 on a set of wheels. I understand that. For others it is not that much. It all has to do with the opportunity cost of buying the wheels. *If a person makes enough that it does not impact other purchases.*.. It is not at all insane to spend that much on bike wheels.



Sorry but that cracked me up. Protecting 'other purchases' isn't really what people have in mind when they critisize spending habits.

And I think you're being overly defensive. I don't want to speak for loogi but I'm pretty sure he said the price was insane not that the person paying it was.


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## Notvintage (May 19, 2013)

Jay Strongbow said:


> I don't want to speak for loogi but I'm pretty sure he said the price was insane not that the person paying it was.


Regardless, he (frisbie 17) points out the "working class hero" mentality that many have on these these forums. To some, a $30K car is a lot and others maybe $180K. Depends on your cash flow.


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## Jay Strongbow (May 8, 2010)

Notvintage said:


> Regardless, he (frisbie 17) points out the "working class hero" mentality that many have on these these forums. To some, a $30K car is a lot and others maybe $180K. Depends on your cash flow.


I know what you mean about the working class hero business and I'm not a fan of that either.

But the price of something is the price of something and commenting on it doesn't necessarily mean it's a comment on the person paying it and could very well be directed at the company(s) charging it alone.


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## FasterStronger (Jun 6, 2014)

I take no offense at any of the posts - to be clear - I am genuinely curious about other opinions and experience on any of these wheels.
I am not looking for a magic pill here - I realize that I am what I am as a order and do it for fun and fitness. The wheels are indeed a lot of coin but if I thought they were worthwhile I could swing it - what i am trying to determine is value and if I am chasing something worthwhile - I know the real way to find out is to dive in ...


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## frisbie17 (Jan 17, 2012)

I just do not think it is right to critize others people spending habits. Thats all I was getting at. No need to judge others on here for what they spend on bike parts. Spend what you want to spend. Let others do the same. No need to knock anybody for buying cool bike stuff. Happy cycling.


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## tvad (Aug 31, 2003)

Jay Strongbow said:


> I don't really 'get' the 202's. They're not real aero (an assumption on my part based on the depth) or real light so as compared to a high quality alloy wheel set the best I can tell is what you get for the extra $1700 is an insignificant improvement in aero, inferior hubs and braking concerns.


Valid questions. The only info I've found re:202 Firecrest wheels compares them to traditional box section climbing wheels, and in this test the 202 Firecrest have less drag. How they would compare to, say, HED Belgium C2 rims is unknown to me as I have not found any tests reflecting this.

The 202 rims are 48 grams lighter (per rim) than HED Belgium C2 rims. Not much, but lighter.

I own both: 202 Firecrest and HED Belgium C2. I love them equally.


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## tvad (Aug 31, 2003)

frisbie17 said:


> I just do not think it is right to critize others people spending habits. Thats all I was getting at. No need to judge others on here for what they spend on bike parts. Spend what you want to spend. Let others do the same. No need to knock anybody for buying cool bike stuff. Happy cycling.


Amen to that. Less judgment. More helpful information, and more riding.


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## Jay Strongbow (May 8, 2010)

tvad said:


> Valid questions. The only info I've found re:202 Firecrest wheels compares them to traditional box section climbing wheels, and in this test the 202 Firecrest have less drag. How they would compare to, say, HED Belgium C2 rims is unknown to me as I have not found any tests reflecting this.
> 
> The 202 rims are 48 grams lighter (per rim) than HED Belgium C2 rims. Not much, but lighter.
> 
> I own both: 202 Firecrest and HED Belgium C2. I love them equally.


Thanks for the info. I only browsed quickly, do you happend to know what 324gm vs 131gm (box rim drag vs 202) drag means in terms of speed, watts or something that a non-scientific cyclist could get some meaning from?


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## tvad (Aug 31, 2003)

Jay Strongbow said:


> Thanks for the info. I only browsed quickly, do you happend to know what 324gm vs 131gm (box rim drag vs 202) drag means in terms of speed, watts or something that a non-scientific cyclist could get some meaning from?


No.

From a subjective perspective (mine) I can say without question that I descend mountains more quickly and with more stability on 202 Firecrest wheels than I did on Mavic R-SYS SLR _and_ Enve SES 3.4 wheels. Hard to believe regarding the Enve SES 3.4 wheels since they're touted for their exceptional handling in windy conditions, but I found the Zipp 202 Firecrest to be superior in this regard.

Again, it's my subjective observation only.


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## Jay Strongbow (May 8, 2010)

tvad said:


> No.
> 
> From a subjective perspective (mine) I can say without question that I descend mountains more quickly and with more stability on 202 Firecrest wheels than I did on Mavic R-SYS SLR _and_ Enve SES 3.4 wheels. Hard to believe regarding the Enve SES 3.4 wheels since they're touted for their exceptional handling in windy conditions, but I found the Zipp 202 Firecrest to be superior in this regard.
> 
> Again, it's my subjective observation only.


Interesting.

Subjective improvements are improvements, for sure. Until I'm seconds away from the world hour record subjective improvments are the ones I enjoy and find worth paying for.


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## chudak (Jul 28, 2012)

looigi said:


> Yes. $2700+ for a set of bicycle wheels is totally sane.


Even at half off they are more than a custom set of wheels I had built from DT-240s and HED Belgium C2s, that are bullet proof. Seems like a waste of cash to me, bling or not.


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## veloduffer (Aug 26, 2004)

FasterStronger said:


> I take no offense at any of the posts - to be clear - I am genuinely curious about other opinions and experience on any of these wheels.
> I am not looking for a magic pill here - I realize that I am what I am as a order and do it for fun and fitness. The wheels are indeed a lot of coin but if I thought they were worthwhile I could swing it - what i am trying to determine is value and if I am chasing something worthwhile - I know the real way to find out is to dive in ...


I found Zipps to be overpriced for what they are: excellent rims but crap hubs. There are better value wheels like Boyd, November and Reynolds. They can be bought for $1600 or less. I think a medium deep wheel like a 40-50mm depth would give you some aero benefit and bling at a reasonable price. Any wheel with a lower profile should be alloy, as you would derive no weight benefit from carbon and worse braking. For under $1000, you could get a pair of Fulcrum Zeros - fairly light 1430g, a bit aero, strong with some of the best hubs, and cool looking.


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## tvad (Aug 31, 2003)

chudak said:


> DT-240s and HED Belgium C2s...are bullet proof.


Those are excellent wheels, and would be a good choice for the OP, IMO.


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## Donn12 (Apr 10, 2012)

veloduffer said:


> I found Zipps to be overpriced for what they are: excellent rims but crap hubs. There are better value wheels like Boyd, November and Reynolds. They can be bought for $1600 or less. I think a medium deep wheel like a 40-50mm depth would give you some aero benefit and bling at a reasonable price. Any wheel with a lower profile should be alloy, as you would derive no weight benefit from carbon and worse braking. For under $1000, you could get a pair of Fulcrum Zeros - fairly light 1430g, a bit aero, strong with some of the best hubs, and cool looking.


This is right on....although I like zipp hubs just fine. There is not much advantage until you get over 20 mph. Zipps are a want not a need. Zipp wheels are for people looking for wheels that are the best, not the best for the $. I have zipp 303s with a power tap hub on my main bike but I don't think it would be worth the cash for a winter/gravel bike etc. 

If you really want carbon wheels though you won't save a lot unless you go Chinese. I would rather spend the money on zipp or enve vs saving $500 and get vision etc that have lower resale value.


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## Keoki (Feb 13, 2012)

veloduffer said:


> I found Zipps to be overpriced for what they are: excellent rims but crap hubs.


What's the average price of FC Zipps? $2,700 - $2,900? Now, what's the price of these wheels if it included Chris Kings or DT Swiss hubs?


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## tvad (Aug 31, 2003)

Keoki said:


> What's the average price of FC Zipps? $2,700 - $2,900? Now, what's the price of these wheels if it included Chris Kings or DT Swiss hubs?


Zipp 303 Firecrest/DT Swiss 240 hubs = $2160/pair at Wheelbuilder.com.

Zipp 202 Firecrest/DT Swiss 240 hubs = $2370/pair.


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## frisbie17 (Jan 17, 2012)

I paid about 2900 for my wheelbuilder.com Zipp 303/404 combo set with Chris King R45 hubs with ceremic bearings. About the same for my Enve 6.7 with same hub combo custom built by my LBS.


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## Keoki (Feb 13, 2012)

tvad said:


> Zipp 303 Firecrest/DT Swiss 240 hubs = $2160/pair at Wheelbuilder.com.
> 
> Zipp 202 Firecrest/DT Swiss 240 hubs = $2370/pair.


Words cannot describe what I'm feeling right now. Why oh why wasn't I informed about this website before when I've bought my wheels..... *sigh*


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## Notvintage (May 19, 2013)

Donn12 said:


> Zipps are a want not a need.


This of course in a First World Country describes almost everything. You don't need a car; take the bus, you don't need a smartphone; you can write letters and annotate your desk calendar, you don't need a clock or watch; you can build a sun-dial, you don't need a washer and dryer; clean on a rack and air dry. None of us need carbon frames, lightweight wheels, sunglasses. . . But it drives the economy and gives some a reason to work, as to enjoy nice things.


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## cnardone (Jun 28, 2014)

I am cool with building my own sun dial, but washing clothes!!!???? That is where I draw the line!


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## Dunbar (Aug 8, 2010)

tvad said:


> Zipp 303 Firecrest/DT Swiss 240 hubs = $2160/pair at Wheelbuilder.com.
> 
> Zipp 202 Firecrest/DT Swiss 240 hubs = $2370/pair.


That 303 price is for tubular rims though. Add $240/pair for clinchers.


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## tvad (Aug 31, 2003)

Dunbar said:


> That 303 price is for tubular rims though. Add $240/pair for clinchers.


I stand corrected on the Zipp 303 Firecrest/DT Swiss 240 price, which was for tubular rims. The price for clincher rims is $2400/pair.

The $2370/pair I quoted for the 202 Firecrest/DT Swiss 240 was for clinchers, and is accurate.

(Previously posted PBK info deleted...price was for one wheel only.)


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## stevesbike (Jun 3, 2002)

Get the 303s - just make sure they fit your frame (they are wide). The 45 depth is a good general purpose set and they have a 250 lb weight limit, so you'd be fine. 

Carbon wheels are just about aerodynamics (but slower riders get more advantage in absolute time savings than faster riders) - carbon also helps to smooth out the ride due to its damping characteristics especially over alloy and bike stuff is about enjoyment as much as performance.


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