# Pr82 Eps



## The_Kraken (Jul 28, 2009)

Wrench Science has wisely picked up the PR82 EPS color that was once exclusive to the palace. Cliff, if you need some better photos of the frameset, please look at:

http://www.pistapalace.com/campione.html

I forwarded all the other old photos I had to PBK upon their request.


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## fabsroman (Jul 14, 2006)

The_Kraken said:


> Wrench Science has wisely picked up the PR82 EPS color that was once exclusive to the palace. Cliff, if you need some better photos of the frameset, please look at:
> 
> http://www.pistapalace.com/campione.html
> 
> I forwarded all the other old photos I had to PBK upon their request.


Exclusive doesn't mean what it used to, or at least it doesn't translate well from English to Italian.

Nice of you to share the pics with your competitors.

I got the green light for the Master PR82 purchase as a 40th birthday present in a year and a half, but I can make the purchase this summer. Don't think I'd get the green light on the EPS because that is what the bathroom bump out would cost on the new house we are looking at.

Even though I already saw those pics of your EPS, I still think they are awesome.


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## ComesAtime (Dec 27, 2009)

fabsroman said:


> Exclusive doesn't mean what it used to, or at least it doesn't translate well from English to Italian.


That or the kraken needs to find out what exclusive means. Seems to be a trend.


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## fabsroman (Jul 14, 2006)

ComesAtime said:


> That or the kraken needs to find out what exclusive means. Seems to be a trend.


As far as I am concerned, I think it is just a buzz word that Colnago dealers use to make us think that we cannot get the frame, or the frame in that color, from any other dealer. There has been so much "exclusive" BS about frame colors that it makes me sick. Colnago should make every frame color available on his frames, with the older ones carrying an upcharge. The exclusivity BS is killing me. People want these frames to be as expensive as possible so they can be in the "exclusive club". My Lord.

Don't get me wrong, I like being in the "exclusive" club to a degree, but I think there is a line where it is just ridiculous and $5,500 for a frame is definitely that line. I don't want a Colnago to be the same price as a Giant, but it looks like Colnago has already gone there with the CLX, CX-1, and Arte, so what does it matter at this point. I've had guys at races ask me if I was racing on a CT-1 when I show up with my bare aluminum Colnago Arte that cost me $650 for the frame.

Last I checked, Ferrari wasn't building an affordable family sedan. It seems as though Colnago wants it both ways. It wants to charge an "exclusive" price for the higher end frames, but it wants to make it frames affordable for everybody in the lower range. It just doesn't work like that.


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## iyeoh (Jan 6, 2005)

fabsroman said:


> I don't want a Colnago to be the same price as a Giant,


I do. And if they keep raising their prices the way they do, and keep diluting the brand, and using silly business tactics, my next bike may well indeed be a Giant.


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## fabsroman (Jul 14, 2006)

iyeoh said:


> I do. And if they keep raising their prices the way they do, and keep diluting the brand, and using silly business tactics, my next bike may well indeed be a Giant.


I can live with it being close. FYI - there are Colnagos out there that are the same price as a Giant. I think the CX-1 and the CLX are going to come in close on that price point. I completely understand that actually Made in Italy will cost more than Made in Taiwan right now, and I am willing to pay for that history. Just like made in the US usually costs more than Made in Taiwan or Made in Vietnam.

I'm going to get my Master and then figure out what the next frame purchase will be. Probably a C60 a couple of years down the road when they are half way through the model year's life and I can justify it over my C50. Then again, they might just put out a paint scheme that I gotta have, or they might completely piss me off with their business practices which ruffle my feathers right now.

Kind of ironic how Kraken was making fun of Koyaa's thread about Colnago's business practices when Koyaa decided to go with a Dogma from Wrench Science over all this "exclusive" paint job BS when he wanted an EPS in PRZA. Now, look who is pissed off at Colnago a couple of months later. Now the shoe is on the other foot.


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## iyeoh (Jan 6, 2005)

fabsroman said:


> Made in Italy will cost more than Made in Taiwan right now, and I am willing to pay for that history.


A 100% price premium was always pretty steep, but I agree with you. I employ the same philosophy with cars as well. However, it starts to get irritating when the company pulls all that BS. {I'm saving up my pennies for this beautiful modena spyder... will show you after it arrives}



fabsroman said:


> Now the shoe is on the other foot.


That's why there is a whole legal industry dealing with international law. International commercial contracts are rarely enforceable, and there are few rights and remedies as long as both counterparties are domiciled in separate jurisdictions.


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## fabsroman (Jul 14, 2006)

iyeoh said:


> A 100% price premium was always pretty steep, but I agree with you. I employ the same philosophy with cars as well. However, it starts to get irritating when the company pulls all that BS. {I'm saving up my pennies for this beautiful modena spyder... will show you after it arrives}
> 
> 
> 
> That's why there is a whole legal industry dealing with international law. International commercial contracts are rarely enforceable, and there are few rights and remedies as long as both counterparties are domiciled in separate jurisdictions.


I took international law in law school, and it pretty much boils down to what treaties/agreements countries have amongst themselves. I would think that a contract between a US business and Italian business would be enforceable. Problem is it would probably cost Kraken a bunch of money to enforce the contract and then he would end up pissing off Colnago who would never sell to him again. Kind of like sub-contractors to Whiting-Turner or Clark Construction. They really do not want to piss off the hand that feeds them. Kind of like I don't want to piss off my larger clients, the clients that have been with me forever, and the clients that always pay on time. Not only is it whether or not the contract is enforceable, but whether or not the business actually wants to enforce it and ruin business relationships.

I think you need to save a lot more than pennies if you want a Modena Spyder. Right now, my wife and I are saving tons of money to buy our dream home. After that we will be saving for rental property and somewhere down the line I might finally get a Ferrari. I'm somewhat envious that you are saving for a Ferrari. There is a Mustang GT500KR for sale at the local Ford dealership and I want one pretty bad. Luckily, it isn't my favorite color.


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## iyeoh (Jan 6, 2005)

Not all is rosy. My equity portfolio YTD is stll 4.8% off. And like a woman for a wife, bringing the car home is only the beginning. I driopped 8K over the past year on work for the 355F1.


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## JeremyP (Apr 30, 2006)

consider yourself lucky that a ferrari sells at less than half the retail price as in many other countries. and you guys are complaining at an extra 1-2k in price of a bike... view it as a donation to ernesto


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## fabsroman (Jul 14, 2006)

JeremyP said:


> consider yourself lucky that a ferrari sells at less than half the retail price as in many other countries. and you guys are complaining at an extra 1-2k in price of a bike... view it as a donation to ernesto


I'd rather make the donation to our retirement accounts, our children's college funds, or a charity of my choice. I doubt Ernesto needs any donations.

Where does a Ferrari sell for half the retail price? Would that be in the US? If so, I might be able to afford one sooner rather than much, much later.


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## rogger (Aug 19, 2005)

Your idea of exclusive is as up to date as your understanding of website design.


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## iyeoh (Jan 6, 2005)

never mind


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## chuckice (Aug 25, 2004)

rogger said:


> Your idea of exclusive is as up to date as your understanding of website design.


lolz.


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## The_Kraken (Jul 28, 2009)

If web design was a measure of BB posts, you would be quite a candidate. I'd rather spend the time riding my bikes. Please forward your resume..


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## JeremyP (Apr 30, 2006)

i actually prefer kraken's old school web site. easy to read, easy to look at the bikes. keep it as is. the nicer the looking the website, the more complicated it is and the smaller the photos, or you need to click on it to open a separate window, or wait for an overlay, like wtf.

keep it as is kraken,

fabsroman, it's you guys in the U.S. who are lucky with the price of luxury/prestige/supercars.


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## fabsroman (Jul 14, 2006)

JeremyP said:


> i actually prefer kraken's old school web site. easy to read, easy to look at the bikes. keep it as is. the nicer the looking the website, the more complicated it is and the smaller the photos, or you need to click on it to open a separate window, or wait for an overlay, like wtf.
> 
> keep it as is kraken,
> 
> fabsroman, it's you guys in the U.S. who are lucky with the price of luxury/prestige/supercars.


That isn't how my second cousin felt in Italy back in 2001 when we told her that my sister had just paid $42,000 for a BMW 330i. My cousin thought my sister was out of her mind.


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## JeremyP (Apr 30, 2006)

I would have to pay double that here


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## fabsroman (Jul 14, 2006)

JeremyP said:


> I would have to pay double that here


Where the heck do you live, because I want to make sure I never live there.


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## JeremyP (Apr 30, 2006)

3rd most livable city in the world. Great place to ride and live.


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## fabsroman (Jul 14, 2006)

JeremyP said:


> 3rd most livable city in the world. Great place to ride and live.


3rd most liveable city unless you want to buy a sports car. Then it ends up being the 20,000th most liveable city in the world.


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## koyaanisqatsi (Aug 5, 2009)

*Well fabs...*

You can skip the whole Colnago/Pista Palace "song and dance" and just buy a non-Colnago-branded frame. My 2010 Pinarello Dogma 60.1 has arrived and I just have to complete assembly---not a problem. Mine is the same color scheme as the frames used by the Caisse d'Epargne team. Looks nice. There's the Team Sky paint scheme, but it's probably not widely available---Pinarello said, with remarkable honesty, that that frame/paint scheme would only be available in limited quantities. "She who must be obeyed" (Rumpole Of The Bailey as you probably know) wouldn't want you to spend that much money. Let's face it...she's being practical and we all know it. I should have someone restraining my profligate ways.

But take a look at the new Eddy Merckx frames @http://www.eddymerckx.be/. Sure, at least some Merckx frames are made by Pinarello (I'm told) but there is no one-to-one correspondence between the Merckx frames and Pinarello frames--they are different frames. Carbon and alloy frames. Limited lifetime warranty...you can't beat that with a stick. Made in China? Yeah, if you're lucky! Ernesto will be having more of his Colnago frames made there soon. Tradition? What's traditional about a carbon fiber frame anyway? I'd buy the Merckx EMX-5 or an older scandium frame if I needed another new bike, but I'm pretty much set for bikes. The Merckx frames are less expensive than the top end Pinarello and Colnago frames. So buy a Merckx EMX-5, head west, and kick some Team Pista Palace butt.




fabsroman said:


> As far as I am concerned, I think it is just a buzz word that Colnago dealers use to make us think that we cannot get the frame, or the frame in that color, from any other dealer. There has been so much "exclusive" BS about frame colors that it makes me sick. Colnago should make every frame color available on his frames, with the older ones carrying an upcharge. The exclusivity BS is killing me. People want these frames to be as expensive as possible so they can be in the "exclusive club". My Lord.
> 
> Don't get me wrong, I like being in the "exclusive" club to a degree, but I think there is a line where it is just ridiculous and $5,500 for a frame is definitely that line. I don't want a Colnago to be the same price as a Giant, but it looks like Colnago has already gone there with the CLX, CX-1, and Arte, so what does it matter at this point. I've had guys at races ask me if I was racing on a CT-1 when I show up with my bare aluminum Colnago Arte that cost me $650 for the frame.
> 
> Last I checked, Ferrari wasn't building an affordable family sedan. It seems as though Colnago wants it both ways. It wants to charge an "exclusive" price for the higher end frames, but it wants to make it frames affordable for everybody in the lower range. It just doesn't work like that.


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## fabsroman (Jul 14, 2006)

koyaanisqatsi said:


> You can skip the whole Colnago/Pista Palace "song and dance" and just buy a non-Colnago-branded frame. My 2010 Pinarello Dogma 60.1 has arrived and I just have to complete assembly---not a problem. Mine is the same color scheme as the frames used by the Caisse d'Epargne team. Looks nice. There's the Team Sky paint scheme, but it's probably not widely available---Pinarello said, with remarkable honesty, that that frame/paint scheme would only be available in limited quantities. "She who must be obeyed" (Rumpole Of The Bailey as you probably know) wouldn't want you to spend that much money. Let's face it...she's being practical and we all know it. I should have someone restraining my profligate ways.
> 
> But take a look at the new Eddy Merckx frames @http://www.eddymerckx.be/. Sure, at least some Merckx frames are made by Pinarello (I'm told) but there is no one-to-one correspondence between the Merckx frames and Pinarello frames--they are different frames. Carbon and alloy frames. Limited lifetime warranty...you can't beat that with a stick. Made in China? Yeah, if you're lucky! Ernesto will be having more of his Colnago frames made there soon. Tradition? What's traditional about a carbon fiber frame anyway? I'd buy the Merckx EMX-5 or an older scandium frame if I needed another new bike, but I'm pretty much set for bikes. The Merckx frames are less expensive than the top end Pinarello and Colnago frames. So buy a Merckx EMX-5, head west, and kick some Team Pista Palace butt.


This isn't from the horses mouth (i.e., Pista Palace), but from what I have seen and heard, I think Pista Palace is getting out of the Colnago line. Good for them. As you know, I have been debating between the Master in PR82 and a Tomassini in Italian colors. However, I have wanted the Colnago in PR82 since 1985 when I had to settle on the Mino Denti because neither me nor my parents were made of money back then. That was back in the day when ALL Colnagos were made of steel and ALL Colnagos were made in Italy. So, I'll probably buy the Master X-Light in PR82, ruin it by putting Super Record on it and carbon wheels, and then hardly ride it anyway because I'll ride the Cristallo and C50 instead. Ultimately, it just comes down to wanting one, not needing one.

Glad to hear you like your Pinarello. That is another classic that I want. I have been checking e-bay for vintage Pinarello Montellos, but have had hardly any luck. I would love one painted like the one Grewal rode in the 1984 Olympic Games, but that is about as rare as they get. I think I would end up hanging that frame on the wall.


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## koyaanisqatsi (Aug 5, 2009)

*You're a bike collector?!?!*



fabsroman said:


> This isn't from the horses mouth (i.e., Pista Palace), but from what I have seen and heard, I think Pista Palace is getting out of the Colnago line. Good for them. As you know, I have been debating between the Master in PR82 and a Tomassini in Italian colors. However, I have wanted the Colnago in PR82 since 1985 when I had to settle on the Mino Denti because neither me nor my parents were made of money back then. That was back in the day when ALL Colnagos were made of steel and ALL Colnagos were made in Italy. So, I'll probably buy the Master X-Light in PR82, ruin it by putting Super Record on it and carbon wheels, and then hardly ride it anyway because I'll ride the Cristallo and C50 instead. Ultimately, it just comes down to wanting one, not needing one.
> 
> Glad to hear you like your Pinarello. That is another classic that I want. I have been checking e-bay for vintage Pinarello Montellos, but have had hardly any luck. I would love one painted like the one Grewal rode in the 1984 Olympic Games, but that is about as rare as they get. I think I would end up hanging that frame on the wall.


Just kidding. I know you ride a lot. But, it looks like you also collect. Some people collect and never ride. Seems odd, but a bicycle is a marvelous machine--works of art--when you think about it. Regarding bikes you may want, you might try estate sales and/or police auctions if you have the time. I have absolutely no doubt that are many old classics sitting in people's garages or attics that may never see the light of day and possibly end up in the trash.

I'm a little surprised PP is getting out of the Colnago line---maybe P-P is unhappy with Colnago as so many people are. I followed Team P-P in the Tour Of The Gila. If I understood the final GC, only one of the three riders who started for Team P-P actually finished. That's a bit of a knock I guess, but I know I couldn't have completed the race. And riding against people like Levi and Lance can't be easy. Several other recognizable names in that race. Of course, the A Team from Radio Shack will also be riding in the Tour of California (starts this weekend I think)...ramping up for the Tour de France I guess.

Cheers,
k.


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