# I am torn between a cyclocross or a genuine road bike.



## bourmb

I am torn between what new bike would work best for me so please help me decide. 

My former bike is a steel 1986 Fuji Sagres with Suntour components so any newer bike is an upgrade! I will probably only be riding on roads, too. I am 6'6" and about 235 pounds so I must have a sturdy bike. I DO NOT want to be beaten to death from road bumps. I am only into casual/non-competitve riding. Would a cyclocross with slightly larger tires make for a smoother ride than traditional road tires without increasing rolling resistance too much?

I will order a bikesdirect.com bike. I had a Motobecane Fantom Cross and a Windsor Cyclo as potential cyclocross bikes. I was looking at the Motobecane Vent Noir and Windsor Fens as road bike choices. I might even consider spending the extra $100 and consider the Windsor Knight or Falkirk also. 

I wish the better wheels were on the Windsors as it appears they have the better components compared to their Motobecane price twin. You are either forced to choose the better components on one bike or the better wheels and lesser components on the other (i.e. Windsor Fens or Motobecane Vent Noir).


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## sometimerider

bourmb said:


> Would a cyclocross with slightly larger tires make for a smoother ride than traditional road tires without increasing rolling resistance too much?)


Generally, yes. You might want to go to a somewhat smoother tire than a normal cross one.



> I wish the better wheels were on the Windsors as it appears they have the better components compared to their Motobecane price twin. You are either forced to choose the better components on one bike or the better wheels and lesser components on the other (i.e. Windsor Fens or Motobecane Vent Noir).


That's a problem with BD - substitutions are generally not allowed - although you can try asking for what you want via email.

If you do go for a road bike, be aware that you probably won't be able to put tires much larger than 23s on them. You can probably get to 25, but 28 is almost sure to interfere with the brakes, if not also the frame (but most BD frames are not as restrictive as some high end bikes).


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## bourmb

Does a cyclocross bike make little sense if I plan on only staying on pavement? I do not want to have a bike that fuzes the seat to my vertebrae, either. That is why I was thinking a cyclocross might be an easier ride.


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## sometimerider

bourmb said:


> Does a cyclocross bike make little sense if I plan on only staying on pavement?


In my mind, it does. The design of most current road bikes, for anything other than all out racing, is pretty stupid.

(But I've never had a cross bike - although my old retro bike comes pretty close.)


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## 20sMotoSpirit

sometimerider said:


> In my mind, it does. The design of most current road bikes, for anything other than all out racing, is pretty stupid.
> 
> (But I've never had a cross bike - although my old retro bike comes pretty close.)



If you are not going to race, but would like to get a road bike. I would recommend not holding yourself to any limitations on bikes direct. Let me explain my reasoning.

Most of the time - my friends who buy from BD, buy the mid-range bikes for around $8-900 these are usually the price point bikes. Good components and they are a great way to start cycling. But the mistake that they make is that they go out and the buy about $600 in upgrades for the bike. While this makes it custom, I have showed them what they could have gotten, if they had though about the purchase more, and planned ahead longer than a year of cycling.

From personal experience, I have two BD bikes... one Sprint, other Le Champ SL which moved to an SW frame. I had the sprint less than a year and wanted something that would last me longer and grow with my ability - The LSL

BUT!!! That is me..... For you, Since I can see that you are trying to stay withing the 750-$1000 range for a bike. I would get the Fantom Cross !!!PRO!!! 
Why? 

Good Wheels!!! (I have Ritchey WCS wheels)
GREAT shifting (Full Ultegra Kit)
All Ritchey PRO parts
Accepts larger tires
And good gearing for road climbing
radin
Plus, the commuter option is a bonus.

The extra money you will spend on a BD bike now will save you from buying or upgrading a year down the road. When I was working at my shop, people would come in an ask for a road bike "something under 800" Only Two! Base line Trek and Specialized (1.2 - Allez) They would buy the bike, and for the few people that kept riding them, they came back in a year later and bought another model of bike, this time spending $2400. 

My mentality is this, if you are into the sport and see yourself really getting into that. "pay up". Buy a generation or component kits that will grow with you as a rider rather than fail later. (ie. 9 speed Dura-Ace and Ultegra is still being used by riders!)


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## bourmb

I guess the critical question is what benefit am I getting with a cyclocross bike over a traditional road bike if I plan on only staying on roads and not swapping out rims? Therefore, will a Cyclocross Pro be a better fit over a Knight, etc?


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## 20sMotoSpirit

bourmb said:


> I guess the critical question is what benefit am I getting with a cyclocross bike over a traditional road bike if I plan on only staying on roads and not swapping out rims? Therefore, will a Cyclocross Pro be a better fit over a Knight, etc?



That is the central question, but it relates back to the key things you are looking for.

Triple Vs. Double. 
Comfort Vs. fit. ( we'll talk later)
High end Vs. Low end

As far as a triple... Not a good idea if you go with a low end shifter. Ultegra shifters have a 4th shift in the triple for trimming the chain rings. the lower Tiagra shifters do not have them. just a thought....


Comfort Vs. Fit - You DO NOT want to measure your steel bike .Bikes had a higher seat tube and a shorter top tube. You want to measure your body. At comp. cyclist, you can get sized. BE MODEST. if you are not flexible tell them that. Tell them the truth. This could mean the difference between a frame that feels good and one that make you feel like superman ready for retirement! This will give you a good size and then you can play with the feel of the bars and stems.

In Short - the Knight is a great value. the Falkirk is a GREAT set of parts - and the crosspro is the best all around value - But it depends on the triple, the longevity of the parts and the overall look of the bike. I run a conpact crank and Love it... Light/stiff and fast. I can add an 11/28 to the bike and get more range than a triple crank. 

If you were looking outside BD for a bike, I would say take a look at a Trek Pilot, Or a Specialized Roubaix, Both are endurance road bikes design for long distance. The Cross Pro is the closest i can see to this in the price range you want. But the "Century" series from Motobecane is in that class (taller head tube - wider wheel base)


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## bourmb

Please help a newbie, what is a 4th shift in a triple?

Wouldn't Ultegra be overkill for the casual rider? I mean, I would be coming from friction shifting a Suntour derailler on an ancient Fuji!

I haven't gotten a really good answer on the comfort... Am I correct in assuming a CX will absorb road irregularities (i.e. cracks, small, holes, etc) better than a road bike on thinner tires? How much rolling resistance would I gain on a CX for the comfort increase? The last thing I want is the feeling I am pedaling on a MTB.


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## sometimerider

bourmb said:


> Please help a newbie, what is a 4th shift in a triple?


It's the _trim_ shift - which allows you to tweak the der. to eliminate chain rub. On my 52-39-30, chain rub almost never happens; it only happens when the rear der. is on the inside or outside cog - and even that rarely causes it. To be honest, a friction front shifter probably makes more sense.



> Wouldn't Ultegra be overkill for the casual rider?


105 is probably almost as good, but I'm happy with Ultegra (also coming from a friction setup).



> I haven't gotten a really good answer on the comfort... Am I correct in assuming a CX will absorb road irregularities (i.e. cracks, small, holes, etc) better than a road bike on thinner tires? How much rolling resistance would I gain on a CX for the comfort increase? The last thing I want is the feeling I am pedaling on a MTB.


IMO, the biggest comfort factor on an unsuspended bike is the tires. Lots of variability there, but generally the fatter the better, and you can get much fatter tires on a cross bike. Rolling resistance shouldn't be an issue (but watch your tire pressure).


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## endeavorc

If I was looking for an all around bike, I would look into a cyclocross bike. I was looking for a commuter bike last year for not a great deal of money but also wanted some versatility in that it would be nice to hit the local bike paths as well. My budget was to find the best I could for around $1000. After looking at various options, I decided on getting a cross bike. 

I looked for several months at my lbs' at the various bikes and could not find what I was looking for in my price range. I will say that Redline, Specialized, Felt, etc are great bikes but a little out of what I wanted to spend.

I am not sure what area you live in but if you have a Performance Bike store I would go look at the Fuji Cross bikes. They have a Cross Comp and a Cross Pro. The Cross Pro normally is $1750 and has a great component setup, full Ultegra with a Dura Ace RD.

To make a long story short, I waited until they had a big sale with an additional 15% off and bought the Cross Pro for $1000. This was a huge deal in my eyes. 

I put on different tires for mostly street and commuter duty, the bike is absolutely fantastic. I went with the compact crank setup with a 50/36 option. A couple weeks ago I changed the tires out for slicks so I can train on the rollers (first time on rollers) this winter, when spring hits I will put the other tires back on for my normal outside riding. It would be very easy to put on 25c tires and use it like a road bike. 

The bike rides great, has good comfort, and versatility. For me, the Cross Bike was the best choice between a low end commuter/road bike because of the flexibility. 

I now use my race and tt bikes for strictly training and racing while the Fuji is used for everything else except for MTB riding. 

Hope this helps, 
E


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## bourmb

Does the 105 have the 4th trim shift option for chain rub reduction?


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## 20sMotoSpirit

The 105 is universal shifter like the Tiagra, which can be used with both double and triple shifting. It makes it nice to switch later on to a triple OR a double. 

https://secure.actionbicycle.com/sagro/storefront/store.php?mode=showproductdetail&product=5394

As you may have noticed, the price point for an Ultegra bike is much better than a 105. I would go with Ultegra. the Gentleman who purchased the Fuji Cross Pro, basically purchased the Moto Cross Pro. the Fuji and the Moto have the same specs, feel and handling.


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## jorgy

sometimerider said:


> In my mind, it does. The design of most current road bikes, for anything other than all out racing, is pretty stupid.
> 
> (But I've never had a cross bike - although my old retro bike comes pretty close.)


For regular road riding, I much prefer my real road bike to my 'cross bike. No contest. Part of it is the material (Ti vs. steel), but mostly it's the geometry (bottom bracket height in particular).

I can't imagine doing a long ride on my 'cross bike.


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## Bike4Obama

fuji cross pro with fenders and road tires make the ideal commuter. it's geometry is like a cross between the fuji roubaix and a fuji touring!!!


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## sokudo

Windsor the hour plus brakes makes an ideal commuter.


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## rogerstg

20sMotoSpirit said:


> As far as a triple... Not a good idea if you go with a low end shifter. Ultegra shifters have a 4th shift in the triple for trimming the chain rings. the lower Tiagra shifters do not have them. just a thought....


Totally untrue. I've set up a number of bikes with Sora and Tiagra triples and there is no problem shifting. 

Re the OP's issues: it would help to know the type of terrain. Cross bikes generally come with compact cranks. Really hilly areas may warrant a triple. But BD cross bikes are generally sturdier and come with sturdier components (wheels) than road bikes. That may suit the OP well based on his intended riding and size.

FWIW, the BB height difference between between my cross bike and my road bike is about 1/2 inch (1.4cm) which is partially due to larger tires


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## bourmb

I will be primarily be riding on flat, country roads. I think I am leaning towards a Windsor Fens. Is there anything I can do to minimize flats since the tires would be 23mm width?


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## Lifelover

jorgy said:


> For regular road riding, I much prefer my real road bike to my 'cross bike. No contest. Part of it is the material (Ti vs. steel), but mostly it's the geometry (bottom bracket height in particular).
> 
> I can't imagine doing a long ride on my 'cross bike.



+1

Do not think a cross bike is better for road riding because you can use fatter tires. On all but the worst roads, handling trumps tires. A cross bike (assuming it truly is a cross bike) will not handle the same a as road bike. They tend to be more twitcy.

If you are set on BD, than consider the Touring bike. It allows for fat tires and should have a more stable ride.


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## bourmb

So are you saying I would have a more comfortable ride on a Motobecane Cafe Noir touring bike over a Windsor Cyclo cyclocross? Both have larger tires, too. I would want to get some aftermarket handlebar extenders for the Cafe Noir or a handlebar moustache. Steel definately would be more forgiving with the Cafe Noir, but I worry about the weight as I don't want a tank of a bike, either. I would like some speed, too.


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## Lifelover

bourmb said:


> So are you saying I would have a more comfortable ride on a Motobecane Cafe Noir touring bike over a Windsor Cyclo cyclocross? Both have larger tires, too. I would want to get some aftermarket handlebar extenders for the Cafe Noir or a handlebar moustache. Steel definately would be more forgiving with the Cafe Noir, but I worry about the weight as I don't want a tank of a bike, either. I would like some speed, too.



There is more to "Comfort" than just compliancy. Cushy tires trump frame material and I highly recommend them.

However, a cushy ride won't really be comfortable unless you like the handling. In my somewhat limited experience, cyclocross bikes tend to be very quick handling and often on the verge of "twitchy". Not a bad characteristic for a race bike.

Touring bikes are made to handle more slowly and provide maximum stability. For casual riders it think a touring bike makes more sense. 

If you wanted flatbars that would be fine, but I was thinking more along the lines of the Windsor Tourist.


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## bourmb

When I got into shape, I used to ride my steel Fuji Sagres like a raped ape. I pushed that bike to it's extreme in terms of speed, etc. I would expect I would do the same with this bike at some point when my fitness level dramatically increases. I am a little hesitant on a touring bike as I envision it as a comfortable bike, but a tradeoff for speed. I think a cyclocross bike would give me more comfort than a straight road bike, and still give me enough speed potential to satisfy me.


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## rogerstg

The BD Cross bikes have a longer wheelbase than road bikes which generally makes them more stable than road bikes. That's consistent with what I've found with my BD Fantom cross. I don't think you would find much difference in straight away speed between a BD cross and the Windsor touring, given similar tires, however the tourist is lower to the ground which could affect turning at higher than touring speeds (pedal strike).

Both are pretty rugged, and while the Tourist has a steel frame, that fact is irrelevant to comfort given the large tires on both bikes. Also, it seems that you don't need the low gearing of the Windsor. The only thing you'll probably want to change on the Cross is the tires. The Kwick cross are pretty aggressive for the road.


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## ummer

*cylco on way*

I pulled the trigger on a Windsor Cyclo yesterday. I was pretty much convinced that I was going to get the Fantom Cross Pro after BD dropped its price to 999. 

I will probably regret the setup of 105 vs. ultegra, but I'm just planning to use it as my weekend ride at the cottage on a mix of dirt roads and bad highways as well as on the converted rail bed. I can certainly find use the $200 I saved.

I chose the Cyclo over the similarly-priced Fantom Cross because of the 105 shifters and the bad reviews on the Fantoms' seat.

I have bought from BD before and have nothing bad to say about them. 

I will post some comments upon delivery.


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## Satanpez

Any updates?


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## ummer

Windsor Cyclo Mini-Review:

My cyclo was delivered 3 days after ordering. It arrived in good shape and 99% assembled. I just had to put on the front wheel, stem, bars and front brakes. Also had to inflate the tires. Probably 15-20 minutes work.

It weighed in at just a touch under 22 lbs without pedals and a touch over with eggbeaters (not included). I'm considering the extra lbs as "strength".

The bike is responsive and a perfect bike for smooth trails, fire-roads or a daily commute. Looks sharp and have had lots of interested parties when I ride. Ride is very road-like with the cross tires swapped out for road tires.

This bike was purchased for $795. Last season's Major Jakes run double that locally.

The negative are: 1) the braking strength -- cantilvers haven't improved all that much since I was riding MTB with them in the 80s, 2) The front shifter is a triple and the cranks are double.


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## Satanpez

Thanks for the update! I'm very serious about possibly ordering this bike. (Actually...I probably will tonight) 

Does it not shift well with the triple front shifter?

-Steve in NJ


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## ummer

Having the triple took some getting used to, but it shifts fine. Just sometimes I have to shift twice to get it on the 46 ring. This happens fewer and fewer times each time out.

I'd consider the Outlaw for the disc brakes (not legal for racing), but I'm glad I chose the Cyclo over the Fantom Crosses.


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## Satanpez

Well, I ordered it this morning, it should be here Thursday or Friday according to a confirmation email I got. Thanks for the info!

-Steve in NJ


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## M1sterM

*Any updates?*

How do you guys like your Windsor Cyclos after riding them for a while? I'm thinking of getting one.


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## Satanpez

I like mine. I *should* have bought a road bike instead of cyclocross so it may sway my opinion.

Likes:
1) Cheap. Exact same Fuji (Same frame) is $1200. Others are much more.
2) 10 speed. Easy to upgrade, etc etc.
3) Top mount cyclocross brake levers. Really nice to use when I'm "relaxing" in a more upright position. I'm a mountain bike rider who's not used to being in too low of a position.
4) Sexy. All black, etc. I could care less tho. 

Dislikes:
1) Wheels needing truing when I got the bike as expected. I only put a few miles on them before a friend gave me a set of Mavics with road wheels. The front hub seems gritty. Not HORRIBLE but it could probably use maintenance. Not noticable while riding whatsoever.
2) Stock seat was uncomfortable. All that means is it didn't fit my ass. It seemed like your typical inexpensive seat that could probably last the lifetime of the bike. 
3) I didn't like the gearing. Most likely good for a cyclocross bike. For $20 I bought a brand new 50T front ring to replace the stock 46T. Much better on the road, I can now pedal downhills fast and there's less overlap between the two front gears. Very happy now.
4) No-name components on stem/handlebar/seatpost. Not an issue for me as they all seem to be fine.
5) Front shifter is a "triple" shifter. It's not a big deal to me, I never notice it. It was a little tricky to setup as most front derailleurs are. 
6) I would have trimmed the cable housings differently. There's nothing *wrong* and it would have been done most likely that way on any bike. Just if I re-do the cables one day I can shorten the cable housings near the seatpost and whatnot and it'll look a bit nicer and probably rub the frame less.

If I was to do it over again I would have bought a similar priced road bike from Bikesdirect.com as I never expect it to really see the offroad. One major reason I bought the bike is just plain durability. I figured I'd rather have a stronger cyclocross frame/fork from an online vendor than a regular road bike. Well....that was stupid. But I'm still happy with the purchase. 

I assumed if I got into road biking I could just buy a frame but it's just not worth it. Frame+Fork+seatpost+headset, blah I'm happy with what I have.

When delivered the bike was assembled pretty well. Attached seatpost, wheels, fork/stem. I had to adjust the shifting but it did shift semi-properly out of the box. 

I'd say I've got 200-300 miles so far? Maybe 400? Kind of hard to say as I just put the computer on. My rides have been averaging 15mph through hilly areas. I'm new at road riding, I have trouble keeping an 18mph pace on straight roads.

-Steve in NJ


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## ummer

*windsor cyclo update*

I have been riding for about a year and a half on my 54cm Windsor Cyclo and have no mechanical issues. only a few times have I needed to adjust the derailleurs to get the shifting precise. 

I had one significant crash when my front wheel became entangled in some tree roots. The bike fared much better than I did only requiring me to straighten a twisted shifter and the handlebars.

I rode a century in a group over the summer and took a lot of level train crossings at near-full speed while my partners on road bikes gingerly crossed them. 

My Alex rims are still true after some hard riding. I am close to 200lbs.

For a while this past summer, I owned an 85 Bianchi Quattro and found it quite a bit quicker than my cyclo both on the flats (3%) and cllimbing (5%). 

I am extremely happy with this versatile bike.


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