# Splitting up workout twice in one day?



## 2ndPlace (Sep 17, 2008)

ok so i am talking about doing 3x20mins LT interval training with recovery in between.

if i do 2x20mins, do a cool down, go to work for six hours(level 1-2) then do the other 1x20mins LT.
am i getting enough "LT" benifit from the last interval that much latter from the first two? or should i just keep them all together?


----------



## iliveonnitro (Feb 19, 2006)

Why not do 2x20 and 2x20? You have a lot of recovery time while at work, assuming your job isn't physically laborious. You could probably get away with it 2-3x/wk if you are smart and good at recovering.


----------



## 2ndPlace (Sep 17, 2008)

yes i could do two workouts a day. 
but my question was will doing all three 20 minute intervals at the same time or split up with the six hours in between have the same effect?


----------



## iliveonnitro (Feb 19, 2006)

If you are going to do 3x20min you may as well just do a 1hr TT. The idea of splitting it up into shorter chunks is to work above your threshold power. Doing >100% of your FTP (60min threshold power) at one time is extremely, extremely difficult -- especially on a trainer.

Basically, it would be difficult, at best, to do 3x20's with each one above FTP. Splitting it up into 2 sessions could get you more time above threshold.

Longer rides in one session is typically better because it follows the specificity principle. Most races and outdoor riding is longer than 20min, and often longer than 45min. It depends what your goals of the workout are.


----------



## allison (Apr 19, 2006)

I asked a friend the same thing recently (re: splitting up workouts). Take it with a grain of salt as he isn't a certified coach, etc., but his advice to me was to do one workout as a spin and do the intervals all at once. e.g. don't spread out the actual workout. Do the workout, and if you need additional ride time for the day do it the morning or evening before/after.

If you've only got an hour doing 3x20's with recovery in between all at once obviously isn't feasible, but nitro's suggestion might be a good option.


----------



## 2ndPlace (Sep 17, 2008)

ok i will be more specific then.


i do 3x20 mins to raise my LT all thru january, then one hour TT's after that to maintain. my LT number at that time of the year seems have come down a bit from a less intense winter base training period. 

i use 20min intervals as my area is very hilly and constant grade is hard to find without just riding around the block. keeping a constant watt or HR is a challange.
riding in doors on a trainer, is only when there is no other way to train.





building slowly to get back my original LT and hopefully to add a few more beats on to it every year.


i start off doing these at 170 HR and slowly build them up to 185(or 187 goal this year). my body likes the high reving kind of racing and my max HR and LT are fairly high. 


i have no problem sustaining that high of HR for 3x20 min or one hour. recover for 10-15 mins in between and i am good to go again. so recovery is not a problem as long as i stay on my nutrition.



my question is "am i still working my LT number if i split up the workout doing the 2x20 mins, then working(lets say lifting/walking 10-20 pound boxes) for six hours and then doing another 1x20 also redoing a warm-up and cool-down?


----------



## iliveonnitro (Feb 19, 2006)

Judging your performance of "LT" by checking for a high HR is poor, at best. Typically, LTHR's will go up as you learn how to suffer, and go down with increasing fitness. Sometimes overtraining can cause extremely high or extremely low HRs.

You need a power meter, honestly.


----------



## 2ndPlace (Sep 17, 2008)

i guess there is no answer to my question?


i get my LT check professionally every 2-3 years and its within 2-3 beats of what i estimate it to be by how hard i can go for a steady 1 hour TT.



but maybe you could explain to me how a LT goes down with increased fitness?



what will a power meter do for me?


----------



## iliveonnitro (Feb 19, 2006)

2ndPlace said:


> i guess there is no answer to my question?
> 
> i get my LT check professionally every 2-3 years and its within 2-3 beats of what i estimate it to be by how hard i can go for a steady 1 hour TT.
> 
> ...


Heart rate is not a measure of performance. It is a reaction to the work your body does. On any given day, on any given ride, it can change dramatically. Try doing a 20min test after taking 1 full week off with no exercise and compare it to your 20min test when you are at your peak fitness in the summer. Your HR after the break will be much, much higher than in summer. Or, a 20min test after a 25hr training week and another one after only 6hrs. Or when its 90 degrees outside vs 40 degrees. Your HR will change, and your power will change even more dramatically.

Your performance can be reasonably assessed using a power meter, unlike a HR monitor. You can perform your own testing, and although it will not give you a blood lactate number, it will give you even better numbers -- how much work your body can produce at certain efforts/intensities. A Watt is a Watt. A kilojoule is a kilojoule. If you can put out 250 watts for an hour, it will be at different intensities and a different HR each time depending on the year/season/weather/training.

Read over cyclingpeaks.com/power411. It has a lot of good information.


----------



## 2ndPlace (Sep 17, 2008)

your pretty good at not answering questions. are you a politician?


so i've been doing it wrong all this time. i am training to win races when i should be trying to show a high watts number.

high watts doesn't make sense if your heart cannot sustain it. being in tune and training by HR gives me the ability to control and decide what i can or cannot do in a race.


conserving energy at different levels below my LT or going right up to it gives me the flexability and information to be more efficient. as opposed to using watts and blowing up too soon or knowing if i can sustain an atttack and for how long. run past your LT for too long and recovery can take a long time in a race.


heart rate is no a measure of perfomance. winning is. i do the best my body can do regardless of how many watts. thats how i train and how i race. raising my LT gives me a higher headroom to conserve energy and ride faster.

i am guilty of using time and MPH instead of watts. keeping a certain HR at a certain speed for a set time is much the same as reading watts. it is a gauge of performance, but who cares. its a number that is specific to yourself only. 

one day you can have a good TT time and the next week not. doing the best you can is really all one can do. push too far and recovery(if not injury) will be greatly increased. luckly i recover very fast.





so how does a LT goes down with increased fitness?


----------



## Shaggybx (Feb 2, 2008)

I thought he answered your question of what a power meter would do, to the T.
He's helped me a lot! 
I think you were a little too hard on him.


----------



## 2ndPlace (Sep 17, 2008)

just being sarcastic cause this thread turned into "power meters" instead of answering my original question.


----------



## shawndoggy (Feb 3, 2004)

iliveonnitro said:


> If you are going to do 3x20min you may as well just do a 1hr TT. The idea of splitting it up into shorter chunks is to work above your threshold power. Doing >100% of your FTP (60min threshold power) at one time is extremely, extremely difficult -- especially on a trainer.
> 
> Basically, it would be difficult, at best, to do 3x20's with each one above FTP. Splitting it up into 2 sessions could get you more time above threshold.
> 
> Longer rides in one session is typically better because it follows the specificity principle. Most races and outdoor riding is longer than 20min, and often longer than 45min. It depends what your goals of the workout are.


Why do each of the 20s need to be above FTP? I do 3x20s all winter long at sub-threshold (i.e. SST) levels. There's no reason that you MUST exceed your FTP every time you do a 20 minute interval.

To the OP, my gut tells me you'd get a hair more doing the third interval at the same time but that doing it later is better than not doing it at all.


----------



## function (Jun 20, 2008)

If you can maintain the same intensity in the second session then it should be fine. I actually enjoy 2 session workouts during summer, steady state intervals (2x20) in the morning with high tempo and anaerobic intervals in the evening (total of about 3hours a day). It has done wonders for my ability to recover day to day, your mileage may vary etc etc.


----------



## iliveonnitro (Feb 19, 2006)

.....


----------



## adimiro (Jun 28, 2007)

2ndPlace said:


> i get my LT check professionally every 2-3 years... maybe you could explain to me how a LT goes down with increased fitness?



Aging


----------

