# lance?



## go do it

I saw that lance was around showing us all that he was not dead

and I got to wondering what ever happened to that guy. Anyone know if he is going to jail?

Then I remembered this bit. I don't like lance and I hope he goes to jail.

It's just funny


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## Opus51569

I turned in my yacht.


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## velodog

don't care


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## MerlinAma

go do it said:


> ....Anyone know if he is going to jail?


I never remember reading an article or hearing any conversation regarding jail.

The lawsuits are all about $$$.

Why would you think he may go to jail?


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## jspharmd

The fact that many people believe that Lance raised money for cancer research is enough of a reason to vilify him. Raising money for cancer awareness is the same as saying, please send us money to advertise about cancer. 

We aren't going to spend the majority of the money to help find treatments or cures, we're just going to spend it on more ads and fundraising. We will purposely allow you to think we are spending it on research, so you will continue to give money. 

Thanks Bill Burr for unknowingly helping to illustrate this point.


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## No Time Toulouse

With all these recent stories about famous atheletes and cyclists being hit by drivders makes me wonder....if L*nc* *rmstr*ng were to ride wearing a jersey with just his name on the back......how long would he survive?


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## bmach

He just got engaged. I wonder if he needs performance enhancing drugs in bed in order to be good?


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## Ryder's

The false death story actually brought a smile to the face of Betsy the Witch. Poor Frankie was sent out in the dead of night in his Hincapie limited edition house slippers looking for an open liquor store to buy champagne. Betsy was so pissed the next day when the liquor store refused to refund HER money for the returned bubbly that she made Frankie wash and wax her broom.


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## Alaska Mike

I'm sure you intended that to be funny and I can only hope I'll be able to understand the artful and nuanced humor one day.


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## mackgoo

I like Lance and always enjoyed watching the races during that era. Lance, Ulrich, Rees, Bolaki, Zabel, Cipo etc. Yeah I may have miss spelled a few.


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## MR_GRUMPY

Armstrong was the best cheater.....Ever. (and a professional jerk). His case comes up on 11/6/17.......The idea of him "cheating" the Postal Service is Hilarious.


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## No Time Toulouse

MR_GRUMPY said:


> Armstrong was the best cheater.....Ever. (and a professional jerk)....s.


That's a bit mild, even for Mr. Grumpy. I'd start at calling him a "professional dooshbag", then go from there. Maybe a national disgrace? But then, we've become complacent about 'national disgraces' lately.....


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## MR_GRUMPY

How many other cheating Athletes have been asked to pay back sponsorship money? Are any of the other riders who didn't cheat as well as him in this situation????


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## No Time Toulouse

Were there any others who ACTIVELY sought out lawsuits against those who pointed out the obvious (that there was no other way on earth to get those kinds of bloodwork numbers)? Then collected multi-million dollar settlements, all the while doubling-down on the fiction that they had NEVER doped?


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## CoffeeBean2

No Time Toulouse said:


> Were there any others who ACTIVELY sought out lawsuits against those who pointed out the obvious (that there was no other way on earth to get those kinds of bloodwork numbers)? Then collected multi-million dollar settlements, all the while doubling-down on the fiction that they had NEVER doped?


How does that apply to the Landis'/the US Government case? Prior behavior should not be a factor in that case. It's whether or not the US Postal Service as defrauded or not.


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## Einstruzende

I did not like Lance during his heyday. I'm sure in these very forums I have vilified him in the past.

However, since his coming out party, I have listened to various interviews he's given (Joe Rogan, Howard Stern), and I also now listen to his weekly podcast. To me, he seems to be humbled, though I would not say so much repentant to the doping.

It actually makes some bit of sense, because one thing I have always thought is that while he may have doped, so was everyone else, and it was a level, if elevated, playing field.

It's pretty clear from his podcast that he is still in demand and has quite a following.


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## Lallement

Einstruzende said:


> It actually makes some bit of sense, because one thing I have always thought is that while he may have doped, so was everyone else, and it was a level, if elevated, playing field.


I think that has been pretty much the idea in many sports. I think that many of the people running and promoting the sports were aware but, hey it is good for fans and the ratings. Reminds me of:


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## Alaska Mike

Einstruzende said:


> It actually makes some bit of sense, because one thing I have always thought is that while he may have doped, so was everyone else, and it was a level, if elevated, playing field.


We've been over and over this here, but to recap:

The level playing field doesn't exist, even in a "clean" world.

If everyone is completely clean, some people will have certain advantages based on training, genetics, and other factors.

Add in doping, and some people respond better to the methods than others, gaining an advantage over their natural genetic superiors. Some people have better doctors than others. Some have different levels they're willing to go to improve performance through doping. Some are protected by systems, teams, or agencies. Read Tyler Hamilton's book. "The Secret Race" for an idea of how it worked in the "Lance Era".

In other words, doping is not a uniform concept that results in the same improvement for everyone. It doesn't level the playing field, it skews it even worse. 

The general consensus is Lance would have never won a single Tour without doping. As it turns out, he didn't win one with doping. As for what he could have achieved clean, we'll never know, because the whole era was skewed. He wasn't a victim of the system and circumstances, he was the apex of the culture- the right physiology, the right determination to succeed, the right ruthlessness, and the right back story at the perfect time for it all to come together.

Lance is courting public opinion before his case comes up, trying to manipulate the narrative like he always did.


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## spookyload

No Time Toulouse said:


> With all these recent stories about famous atheletes and cyclists being hit by drivders makes me wonder....if L*nc* *rmstr*ng were to ride wearing a jersey with just his name on the back......how long would he survive?


WTF are you babbling about? Much like Kathy Griffin found out, there is a line that separates humor from not appropriate. You seem to be very bitter about something that did not affect you in any way. Unfortunately, you joined the forum a little too late. Six years ago you would have had lots of people dog pile on with you here. Now it is just tired and played out. Please see post below to catch up on the end state of over a decade of this hate.


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## Charlie the Unicorn

Since they're all ( or at least the consistent winners ) still cheating - reference team SKY, or the entire GB cycling federation (probably their triathletes as well), I could care less. I don't even watch the tour anymore, it's a freaking joke.


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## Alaska Mike

Compared to where things once were, I'd say things are _*better*_. Not clean, but significantly better than when Riis won. People will still cheat, and some will get away with it. That happens across all sports.

Team Sky? For all of their marginal gains talk, they have a huge budget and buy the very best riders available to support their designated GC rider. They have the staff and support structures that few teams can match. Are they clean? I have no idea. I like the fact that they are constantly getting probed and questioned by the press, because obviously they don't run as tight a ship as they claim. If they're dirty, I won't lose any sleep.

I'd love to see a salary cap for teams that would distribute the talent more evenly, but the powerful teams will fight that every step of the way and all we'll be left with is a whining guy with sideburns to champion the cause.


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## GammaDriver

Einstruzende said:


> I did not like Lance during his heyday. I'm sure in these very forums I have vilified him in the past.
> 
> However, since his coming out party, I have listened to various interviews he's given (Joe Rogan, Howard Stern), and I also now listen to his weekly podcast. To me, he seems to be humbled, though I would not say so much repentant to the doping.
> 
> It actually makes some bit of sense, because one thing I have always thought is that while he may have doped, so was everyone else, and it was a level, if elevated, playing field.
> 
> It's pretty clear from his podcast that he is still in demand and has quite a following.



+1

I followed most of the YouTube vids of him covering the TDF with his radio-host helper in the trailer. Enjoyed it, and was glad to see him back on the tube. Also glad to hear his perspectives after each stage, as well as predictions on the next-day's stage. 

Lance didn't hurt me at all, didn't touch me in inappropriate places, and I'm not a European ... so I have nothing against him considering everyone who mattered - then, and even the heroes of cycling before then - were doping.


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## ms6073

I got no bones that he cheated, but I cannot forgive how many regular, working class people lost everything. Ask yourself how happy would you be if your family had to fork over all of its retirement savings and sell off the family home because they lost in court against a sociopath that was able to afford a multi-million dollar legal team!


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## spookyload

ms6073 said:


> I got no bones that he cheated, but I cannot forgive how many regular, working class people lost everything. Ask yourself how happy would you be if your family had to fork over all of its retirement savings and sell off the family home because they lost in court against a sociopath that was able to afford a multi-million dollar legal team!


Are you implying Lance is responsible for US Postal failing? That is the biggest joke I have read yet. If anything, they thrived while he was winning. They are failing, and have been for years. They should blame Al Gore, since he invented the internet, and that is what is killing the postal service.


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## Rashadabd

spookyload said:


> Are you implying Lance is responsible for US Postal failing? That is the biggest joke I have read yet. If anything, they thrived while he was winning. They are failing, and have been for years. They should blame Al Gore, since he invented the internet, and that is what is killing the postal service.


I think he is referring to the people Lance sued and blacklisted over the years, etc.


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## Rashadabd

MR_GRUMPY said:


> How many other cheating Athletes have been asked to pay back sponsorship money? Are any of the other riders who didn't cheat as well as him in this situation????


His problem is that he had the U.S. government sponsoring his team. Not a smart move if you plan to dope your way to wins. That's really the key fact here. It's like stealing from the local small town prosecutor, it's just not smart.


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## Rashadabd

One for the Lance lovers and the Lance haters:

https://rouleur.cc/editorial/lance-armstrong-the-history-man-part-one/


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## Alaska Mike

Looks like Lance wins after all. 

All of those years, all of that noise about justice and everything, and this weak settlement is all that comes of it. Sad.

I just wanted him to go away, and yet he'll likely experience a rebirth of sorts and regain much of his "legitimacy". Sad.

I was actually surprised by the number of fan boys coming out of the woodwork to comment on the various articles. I didn't think there were that many left. Sad.

So, we're stuck with him. Sad.


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## velodog

Alaska Mike said:


> Looks like Lance wins after all.
> 
> All of those years, all of that noise about justice and everything, and this weak settlement is all that comes of it. Sad.
> 
> I just wanted him to go away, and yet he'll likely experience a rebirth of sorts and regain much of his "legitimacy". Sad.
> 
> *I was actually surprised by the number of fan boys coming out of the woodwork to comment on the various articles. I didn't think there were that many left. Sad.
> *
> So, we're stuck with him. Sad.


The support that he still gets is what bothers me the most. A settlement out of court is almost to be expected with a case such as this, but the numbers of people who are okay with his dealings is truly sad.

I hear talk of a "Civilized Society" but fail to see it when so much of the Society shares the notion of winning at any cost, be it cheating or abuse of others. Unsportsmanslike behavior seems to be acceptable behavior as long as you're a winner.

And his weak settlement, the "rebirth of legitimacy" that you mentioned, just has his supporters cheering another victory. 

Not to be overdramatic, but we're doomed.


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## MerlinAma

Here we go again. I’m glad Lance “won” primarily so Landis gets relatively little. He can just stay doped up in Leadville.

We were all thoroughly entertained during the Lance era. At least I watched every stage intensely and it was always discussed at length on every ride. 

Let it go!!!


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## pmf

$5 million to settle. I think he probably spent more than that on lawyers. What a slap on the wrist. Floyd gets $1.1 million. Big money for him.


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## DrSmile

Travesty


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## Doctor Falsetti

After spending $15 million on lawyers Lance wrote a check for $ 2.75 million to Floyd and his lawyers and another $4 Million to the Feds. 

Winning?


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## Alaska Mike

Compared to what he made 'being Lance" and the message that it sends... yeah, he won.

It won't be long before all is forgiven and history is forgotten, because every cyclist ever, top to bottom, has been doped to the gills. Lance was just leveling the playing field, and he was so naturally talented that he didn't need to dope. 'Murica. Think about all he selflessly did for cancer awareness and stuff. I'm sorry you don't believe in miracles. Lance was robbed.

Yeah, he won.


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## Ryder's

Poor Betsy still can't let it go.


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## No Time Toulouse

velodog said:


> ...
> 
> I hear talk of a "Civilized Society" but fail to see it when so much of the Society shares the notion of winning at any cost, be it cheating or abuse of others. Unsportsmanslike behavior seems to be acceptable behavior as long as you're a winner.
> 
> ...


Oh, oh, this thread is gonna turn political next!


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## Alaska Mike

Ryder's said:


> Poor Betsy still can't let it go.


If you were in her place, would you?


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## Doctor Falsetti

Ryder's said:


> Poor Betsy still can't let it go.


Understandable. While Lance has been pushing his faux rehab campaign he has been smearing Betsy every chance he can get. 

He has not changed. He will never change.


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## mapeiboy

The government knew right from the beginning that it has a weak case against Lance that is why they settled for $5 millions . USPS has monopoly on first class mail and there is no way they can prove business suffered because of Lance .


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## 80turbota

Alaska Mike said:


> If you were in her place, would you?


Yeah Poor Betsy. Vilifying lance when she is married to a drug cheat. Yes he did it too. He did it for Lance. Betsy wants Lance to admit to what was said in the hospital room. He is not going to do it. Just like he is not ever going to throw Johan under the bus or His fellow owners of Tailwind sports under the bus. 
Betsy is just going to have to pull up her big girls panties and move on. Like the rest of us. She is never going to get what she wants from him. She better just settle for the half hearted apology that she got and move on. Because I am sure that Lance has moved on from her.


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## MerlinAma

Unless Betsy “lets it go” she essentially lets him continue to hurt her. At some point she has to decide to live in the sun or stay under a cloud. 
I still find it interesting that the Lance era (and Lance) made Trek, the OLN Network (now NBC Sports) and to some extent Giro and Oakley although Lemond wore the Oakley Pilot which I ended up buying, of course. 
And by the way, TUE’s are ridiculous. If you have asthma, maybe you should compete at chess, not cycling. 
My random thoughts for today.........


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## Alaska Mike

I think Frankie is a weakling who lets his wife be his conscience, but that's just my uninformed view.

Lance isn't going to change.

What I want is for Lance to be out of the public view, far away from anything remotely related to cycling. He's a toxic presence. I was hoping the case would knock him back far enough that he wouldn't be able to return, but apparently not.

Wanky's Take


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## KoroninK

Truthfully I don't think anyone should be that surprised this case was settled out of court. What surprises me the most with the Lance fan boys is that they don't seem able to comprehend that most people don't like Lance because of all the bullying and throwing people under the bus and ruining careers and lives of people and well just being a jerk and not the actual doping it's self. This seems to be beyond their capabilities to understand.

Personally I'd prefer that both Lance and Landis would go away, but that doesn't appear likely.


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## Alaska Mike

Actually, I think Floyd would be happy to go away now. He believes (with some justification) that nothing has changed since he blew the whistle (or turned rat, depending on your point of view), and this settlement will only confirm to him that the system is rigged. He'll peddle his CBD recovery brownies or whatever and be more of a local thing, content to fade into a historical footnote.

Lance? He won't settle for that, and now he'll likely do most anything to stay in the cycling world to some extent. You don't fly to Europe solely to cover Grand Tours for a freaking podcast. He has bigger plans. I simply can't wish him well.


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## gegarrenton

I find it amusing the people that cheered for him when he was winning, and now villify him. 

I despised him when he was riding for all the sanctimony and hypocrisy. I'm alright now that he is an admitted *******. Don't like him or anything, but I'll listen to his podcast because they are entertaining.

Betsy Andreu is ****ing psychotic, completely unrelated to any of Lance's bullshit.


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## BCSaltchucker

gegarrenton said:


> I find it amusing the people that cheered for him when he was winning, and now villify him.
> 
> I despised him when he was riding for all the sanctimony and hypocrisy. I'm alright now that he is an admitted *******. Don't like him or anything, but I'll listen to his podcast because they are entertaining.
> 
> Betsy Andreu is ****ing psychotic, completely unrelated to any of Lance's bullshit.


mostly how I feel about it too. I didn't like him as a person when he was racing, but enjoy his commentary and his mellowed personality.

However I give Betsy a wider berth. She is a legit whistleblower and played a valid and important role in outing Lance. I just would not want to be married to her! Maybe Frankie enjoys being the sub


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