# A new set of Enve 45/Elf Orc...awaiting delivery



## wingnut000 (Dec 22, 2010)

I recently ordered a set of Enve 45 clinchers paired with Alchemy Elf/Orc hubset and sapim cx-rays from Roland at Zen Cyclery based on a recent positive wheel test review provided by fellow forum member MikeT. https://forums.roadbikereview.com/showthread.php?p=2918146&mode=linear#post2918146

I went with Alchemy hubs since they were relatively lightweight, have wide flange spacing for higher stiffness, but more importantly, _I like the fact they use a titanium cassette body which should be more resistant to cogs digging in when compared to an aluminum cassette body_ **correction, cassette body is aluminum, not titanium**. I'm told they are also quieter than the bread and butter chris king hubs, which is good since I don't like noisy hubs.

Ordered Nov. 23, and was hoping to receive before christmas, as I was promised a three week turn around, but now it seems unlikely as I was advised that the hubs were expected to arrive only yesterday (Dec. 20). Will post pictures and reviews upon receipt. I hope the delay with the hubs is based on high demand and limited supply, rather than parts supply problems with wheels manufacturing.

What are my plans for these wheels? A 2011 Parlee Z5 Limited SL of course. It makes sense to complete the Enve tubeset/handlebar/seatpost with a set of Enve wheels! For now, I have a set of Easton EC90SL 38mm clinchers which I have been very happy with.


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## KMan (Feb 3, 2004)

*Perfect Wheelset......*



wingnut000 said:


> I recently ordered a set of Enve 45 clinchers paired with Alchemy Elf/Orc hubset and sapim cx-rays


Truthfully, that soulds like the perfect wheelset....almost. Personally I would prefer a 55mm wheel over a 45, but I guess that just splitting hairs and since they only offer a 45 or 65......
Wish I had the $$ to get a set so until then I'll have to ride my Tokens for a while longer.

Michael


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## jwp3476 (Jun 22, 2010)

You will be very happy with your choice. I had a 2.45 tubular set built with Alchemy hubs, DT Aerolite radial front, DT Comp rear earlier this year and couldn't be happier.


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## Mike T. (Feb 3, 2004)

Nice wheels Wingnut. Don't forget to report back when you have some miles on them. Oh yeah nice bike too but it cries out for two sets of red anodized bottle cage bolts.


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## goneskiian (Jan 13, 2005)

wingnut000 said:


> I went with Alchemy hubs since they were relatively lightweight, have wide flange spacing for higher stiffness, but more importantly, I like the fact they use a titanium cassette body which should be more resistant to cogs digging in when compared to an aluminum cassette body.


Are you sure the Orc hub has a Ti cassette body? I just read the hub review at Fair Wheel Bikes and they say it's got an aluminum cassette body.

I'm just looking for some clarification as I'm very interested in these hubs and will likely use them for my build. I'll get them with an aluminum cassette body but would very much prefer Ti. 

Cheers!


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## wingnut000 (Dec 22, 2010)

goneskiian said:


> Are you sure the Orc hub has a Ti cassette body? I just read the hub review at Fair Wheel Bikes and they say it's got an aluminum cassette body.
> 
> I'm just looking for some clarification as I'm very interested in these hubs and will likely use them for my build. I'll get them with an aluminum cassette body but would very much prefer Ti.
> 
> Cheers!


i originally thought they were titanium when i read the reviews on fairwheel, but upon closer reading, titanium was *planned*, but did not materialize in the final version for weight and cost savings.

nevertheless, the fit and finish of the hubset is very nice and i wouldn't worry about the cassette body being aluminum. ti is nice, but not a necessity. if it does wear out to require replacement, i'm sure jeremy at alchemy can supply replacement bodies like chris king does.

i'll post more pictures and reviews when i have a chance but roland of zen cyclery builds very nice wheels and i would not hesitate to have him build another set for me.


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## poppi (Oct 14, 2009)

*wingnut000*

that's going to be my next wheelset this spring. of course the good folks @ Zen will do the build . good luck & let us know the results:thumbsup:


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## Trevor! (Feb 28, 2004)

KMan said:


> Truthfully, that soulds like the perfect wheelset....almost. Personally I would prefer a 55mm wheel over a 45, but I guess that just splitting hairs and since they only offer a 45 or 65......
> Wish I had the $$ to get a set so until then I'll have to ride my Tokens for a while longer.
> 
> Michael


Or if 65mm is too much you could go for a 65.45 combination as I did. Built by Roland and a kick a$$ set of wheels. Best I've ever ridden.


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## KMan (Feb 3, 2004)

Trevor! said:


> Built by Roland and a kick a$$ set of wheels. Best I've ever ridden.


Mind if I ask how much? That's a pretty good idea! Thanks.

Also, can you fix your photo (red X), as I love to see that wheelset.

Michael


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## DIRT BOY (Aug 22, 2002)

Trevor! said:


> Or if 65mm is too much you could go for a 65.45 combination as I did. Built by Roland and a kick a$$ set of wheels. Best I've ever ridden.


Looks Nice Trevor. I am planning on the same 65/45 build this summer for myself. We have had requests for combos like that lately.

Personally I would like something a bit more shallower for myself. I would love a 38/50. better in the heavy crosswinds here without blowing around.


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## tyjacks (Oct 21, 2006)

Trevor! said:


> Or if 65mm is too much you could go for a 65.45 combination as I did. Built by Roland and a kick a$$ set of wheels. Best I've ever ridden.



Man.. that is a great setup.. I'll be ordering the Alchemy Elf/Orc hubset and sapim cx-rays with ENVE 65's within the next couple of weeks from Ron Ruff.

Question: Is there any aero benfit from going with a set of 65's (front/rear) over the 45/65 combo? Obviously there's a few grams of weight difference between the 45 and 65 rims.


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## KMan (Feb 3, 2004)

tyjacks said:


> Man.. that is a great setup.. I'll be ordering the Alchemy Elf/Orc hubset and sapim cx-rays with ENVE 65's within the next couple of weeks from Ron Ruff.
> 
> Question: Is there any aero benfit from going with a set of 65's (front/rear) over the 45/65 combo? Obviously there's a few grams of weight difference between the 45 and 65 rims.


Of course...the deeper the rim the more Aero benefits you'll get, but at the expence of added weight and harder stability due to winds. This is where you need to weigh the pros and cons of rim depth vs your needs and conditions to pick the correct wheels.

Michael


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## cdhbrad (Feb 18, 2003)

Agreed. I have used a Zipp 303/404 clincher combination on one of my bikes for several years. Much more stable in cross winds than when I put a 404 on the front and I don't notice any difference in aero effects. The Enve 65/45 combo looks really good to me too.


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## wingnut000 (Dec 22, 2010)

some close up shots of the elf/orc enve 45mm carbon clinchers

close up of brake track on enve clincher:









molded valve hole:









rear cassette body:









rear hub:









front hub:









bearing preload adjustment by 5mm allen key:









front wheel:


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## alexp247365 (Dec 29, 2009)

By doing the research and looking at all the glowing customer reviews, this build seems to be THE wheelset to get for the new year.


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## Trevor! (Feb 28, 2004)

tyjacks said:


> Question: Is there any aero benfit from going with a set of 65's (front/rear) over the 45/65 combo? Obviously there's a few grams of weight difference between the 45 and 65 rims.


65 over a 45 up front is going to be more aero. The deeper the more aero. The reason why I went 45/65 is simply to have the best of both worlds. The wheelset weighs in at 1160 grams and is suited to so many situations. I've ridden it in horrible cross winds and haven't been too phased by the conditions.


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## Golgol23 (Dec 30, 2010)

Hi Wingnut 
Do you have your set of wheels delivered?
I'm planning to order some from Zen too, some Enve 65 with Alchemy's. Post a review of the buying process and the wheels once you have them.
Cheers


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## jwp3476 (Jun 22, 2010)

wingnut000 said:


> front hub:


I am curious as to why the spoke heads are "in" on the front hub when Jeremy of Alchemy specifies the heads to be "out".


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## wingnut000 (Dec 22, 2010)

Golgol23 said:


> Hi Wingnut
> Do you have your set of wheels delivered?
> I'm planning to order some from Zen too, some Enve 65 with Alchemy's. Post a review of the buying process and the wheels once you have them.
> Cheers


the wheels were delivered the week after christmas. the front hub was apparently damaged during shipping or in the shop so another one had to be ordered. roland built them on christmas and sent them out rush so i got them a couple of days later. to make up for the delay, two pairs of high end titanium skewers were included free of charge, which was nice!

the front hub had a bit of play with the skewers fully tightened, which was easily fixed by tightening the preload on the axle bearings with a couple of 5mm allen keys. i noticed some tiny voids pockets in the brake track of the rear enve rim, and being the perfectionist i am, i am sending them back for warranty. overall, it was not as smooth as i anticipated, since i have to send a wheel back, but other than the minor quirks noted above, the build is first class (very even and very high spoke tension). there is residue of spoke prep on most of the spoke holes, so at least i know the spokes won't be loosening easily on their own. i just need to get a toothbrush to brush it off.

as indicated in my previous post, i would have no hesitation in ordering another set from roland. my next set will be elf/orc with stans alpha 340 rims for rainy weather rides. you just need to be patient as they are custom built and not off the shelf that can be shipped immediately. i admit i was impatient and wanted them before christmas, so i may have pressured roland in delivering the goods without ample time for his usual quality checks prior to shipping them out. 




jwp3476 said:


> I am curious as to why the spoke heads are "in" on the front hub when Jeremy of Alchemy specifies the heads to be "out".


in order to get additional clearance between the fork and spokes, i suspect jeremy specs heads out because the flange width of the front hub is wider than average. roland uses head in to further widen the flange width spacing, resulting in an improved bracing angle, and hence a stiffer wheel. on an easton ec90sl fork, the spokes barely clear with heads in, but with an enve fork, there is lots of clearance. its a trade off between clearance and a stronger wheel, but i'll let the wheel buiding experts chime in.


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## wingnut000 (Dec 22, 2010)

to give an idea of clearance issues with a wide front hub flange width, here is a photo of a rolf front hub which has one of the widest widths on the market at 86mm outside to outside of flange. as you can see, if laced heads in, the spokes would be rubbing on the fork.









the elf flange spacing is 82.2mm outside to outside, so there is a bit more clearance for a heads in lacing pattern without spoke rubbing the fork, but it is tight on an easton ec90 sl fork compared to an enve one.


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## carveitup (Oct 25, 2008)

I have an ELF front hub from Zen laced radially with heads in. The clearance is tight with the wide flanged hub but has a few mm clearance on both my Kuota Kharma stock fork and my wife's EC90SL fork. As I understand it, the main reason to lace it heads out is to ensure that the spokes don't hit the fork.


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## wingnut000 (Dec 22, 2010)

for comparison purposes, clearance with an easton ec90sl (straight) fork vs. enve road 1.0 fork. the clearance with heads in and elf front hub is very dependant on the fork type. no problems with clearance with the enve fork.

Easton EC90 SL Straight (not curved version) fork:









Enve Road 1.0 fork:


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## jwp3476 (Jun 22, 2010)

According to Jeremy at Alchemy: 

"The flange placement on the ELF is wider than any other hub. So, building with elbows out is not necessary to produce a very stiff wheel (good flange placement already accomplishes that).

Elbows out lacing produces more stress on the flange and slightly more aerodynamic drag. For all of these reasons, I recommend heads-out (elbows-in) lacing. That being said, you can use a standard cross pattern or elbows-out lacing without causing spoke interference."


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