# Specialized at it again...



## Charlie the Unicorn (Jan 8, 2013)

Not sure if anyone beat me to it-- Specialized going after Neilpryde because Alize is too close to Allez.

Allez, allez NAZARÉ - NeilPryde Bikes 2014

So much for this load of crap:

I Screwed up, and I own it

I would like to apologize and let everyone know I realize I handled this situation wrong from the start and I’m very sorry for that. As many of you have probably already seen by now, I went up to Café Roubaix to meet with Dan in person to apologize and make good with him. Café Roubaix will continue on with its name. The video is up on Café Roubaix’s Facebook page. Dan is the real deal, after meeting him I realize this and am embarrassed by how ridiculous this is. What happened was wrong. There are no excuses but I do feel like I owe it to you all to explain how we found ourselves in this situation, *the lessons we’ve learned from it and, most importantly, how it will change the way we do things moving forward.
*
Over the past few years we’ve seen a massive spike in counterfeit products, and most of the riders have no idea these products are fake, which is extremely dangerous because the risk of failure on these untested products is extremely high. In one instance, the entire head tube and fork sheared off a counterfeit Tarmac, causing the rider who had no idea he was not on a genuine Specialized product to faceplant and destroy his shoulder. To give you an idea of how much this issue has blown up, 10 Specialized employees hunt fake products across 30 major ecommerce platforms, we’ve identified over 5,000 listings, worth $11,000,000 USD in counterfeit goods since January 1st of this year alone. This is about double what it was last year. Due to this we have recently gone after IP and trademark issues more aggressively in the interest of protecting the safety of riders and the livelihood of our dealers and their hard-working employees. See the attached picture to understand how dangerous fake goods are.

In the deal with Café Roubaix, the wheels were the red flag that got the attention of our outside attorney’s who were already sort of on red alert for anything that pops up, although Café Roubaix wasn’t in the same camp as the counterfeiters, they still got caught in the crossfire. There is so much activity with infringers that it’s overwhelming and I don’t see them all. The first I heard of it was Saturday morning and by Monday the thing went huge. But still, that was my fault, which is why I’m so embarrassed. I should have called Dan immediately.

*I heard you and you can rest assured I took it to heart. I realize now that we went too far with this aggressive approach and as a result and in some cases we hurt the local bikes shops and small businesses we wanted to protect. As a result we’re going to take a much closer look at all pending and future intellectual property and trademark issues, making sure to only pursue those that present a clear and obvious danger.* The letter on Epix Gear was issued before the Café Roubaix story broke and has since been pulled.

I handled this very poorly and I own full responsibility. Dan at Café Roubaix and I have become friends and he’s happy with the solution. I hope you too accept my sincere apology. Like you all, I’m passionate about cycling and want to do everything possible to grow the activity we all love.

Sincerely,

-Mike Sinyard
Founder


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## SauronHimself (Nov 21, 2012)

Allez = French for "go" (you all)

Alize = French for "trade winds"

Two words with completely different pronunciations and definitions. :mad2:


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## wgscott (Jul 14, 2013)

Is Mike Sinyard really that illiterate?



> our outside attorney’s who


Why, yes, I guess he is.


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## tihsepa (Nov 27, 2008)

Specialized sucks. 
Sinyard is a turd, and a liar.


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## upstateSC-rider (Aug 21, 2004)

Specialized owns the rights to all words that start with "A", what's so hard to understand?
Use these words at your discretion but you've been warned.


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## SauronHimself (Nov 21, 2012)




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## tihsepa (Nov 27, 2008)

SauronHimself said:


>


Ohhhhhhhhhhhhhh, now you have done it.


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## Winn (Feb 15, 2013)

What do you guys care? Anyone here own an Alize? Anyway the bike company seemed to think it wasn't worth the effort to fight but what the heck lets have a fight here? Makes no sense does it. $11,000,000 seems like a good reason to be defensive and proactive.

and yes I ride a Specialized...


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## threebikes (Feb 1, 2009)

You just made their list.



SauronHimself said:


>


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## tihsepa (Nov 27, 2008)

.....


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## Jwiffle (Mar 18, 2005)

Thank you for bringing this to my attention...I'm digging that Nazare! May just look into NeilPryde bikes next time I want a new bike.


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## bvber (Apr 23, 2011)

SauronHimself said:


> Allez = French for "go" (you all)
> 
> Alize = French for "trade winds"
> 
> Two words with completely different pronunciations and definitions. :mad2:


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## vic bastige (Jan 22, 2004)

Kinda why a gravitated towards Volagi. Because Spesh picked a fight with the little guys. At least they won a dollar for their efforts to protect me and their proprietary rights.


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## mikerp (Jul 24, 2011)

Learning comes easier to some folks vs. others.
At least NeilPryde knows how to handle things graciously and with some humor.


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## Notvintage (May 19, 2013)

Winn said:


> and yes I ride a Specialized...


Nothing to brag about. hhahaha


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## aa.mclaren (Jun 25, 2008)

Specialites T.A. has made chainrings called "Alize" for several years now. Of course being a French company they know the difference between that word and "Allez".

Hey, maybe Specialized might be interested in that "Specialites" T.A. company, they've only been around since um, 1947...


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## tlg (May 11, 2011)

Winn said:


> What do you guys care? Anyone here own an Alize? Anyway the bike company seemed to think it wasn't worth the effort to fight but what the heck lets have a fight here? Makes no sense does it. $11,000,000 seems like a good reason to be defensive and proactive.
> 
> and yes I ride a Specialized...


Maybe because people don't like giant powerful bullies using their bank accounts and lawyers as leverage to threaten smaller companies.


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## jspharmd (May 24, 2006)

Winn said:


> What do you guys care? Anyone here own an Alize? Anyway the bike company seemed to think it wasn't worth the effort to fight but what the heck lets have a fight here? Makes no sense does it. $11,000,000 seems like a good reason to be defensive and proactive.
> 
> and yes I ride a Specialized...


There is a huge difference between going after companies that are trying to sell rip offs of Specialized bikes (the example of the tarmac that wasn't a tarmac), and companies naming their genuine product something that is spelled in a "similar" fashion as a Specialized product. I would argue that Neilpryde isn't trying to bolster their brand by "tricking" people into buying their bike instead of a Specialized Allez.


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## junior1210 (May 2, 2013)

"Dear Mr Sinyard,

Sir, I implore you to intervene behalf of all us innocent bicycle purchasers who have been had, hornswoggled, hoodwinked even, by those no-goodnicks at Neilpryde. I thought I was gonna buy an aluminum, entry level bike for tooling around my neighborhood, but instead I wound up on a carbon fiber bike with racing geometry, and it doesn't even say 'Specialized' on the down tube! It has Neilpryde on it, they spelled Allez wrong (says Nazare on the seat tube), and it has a different color scheme than all of the other Specialized bike lineup. If I didn't know better I'd swear it was made by another company all together! Please, something must be done to stop these monsters.

Sincerely,
Specialized Legal Dept."


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## Winn (Feb 15, 2013)

Notvintage said:


> Nothing to brag about. hhahaha


You guys are ridiculous. I wasn't bragging I was confessing. The point is the guys at Neilpryde were like well lets change it then fine. Who freakin cares seriously? So you guys don't like huge corporations I get that but on what planet is Specialized a huge corporation? I'm sure all you anti-corporate guys don't support any major oil companies, or buy things at WalMart, Target, Whole Foods, or any other national chain right. You all spend your time buying local. Definitely aren't driving around in a mass produced car made by one of these evil corporations right? If you guys don't like the company great but this is really just business it's the way things go, it has been only recently that Specialized was even big enough to do this anyway. Apparently they got there by making crap bikes and being jerks. If Neilpryde can't play with big boys they should stay out of the sandbox. BTW it looks like they did the smart thing the decided to not even argue the point you all should join them.


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## SauronHimself (Nov 21, 2012)

Winn said:


> You guys are ridiculous. I wasn't bragging I was confessing. The point is the guys at Neilpryde were like well lets change it then fine. Who freakin cares seriously? So you guys don't like huge corporations I get that but on what planet is Specialized a huge corporation? I'm sure all you anti-corporate guys don't support any major oil companies, or buy things at WalMart, Target, Whole Foods, or any other national chain right. You all spend your time buying local. Definitely aren't driving around in a mass produced car made by one of these evil corporations right? If you guys don't like the company great but this is really just business it's the way things go, it has been only recently that Specialized was even big enough to do this anyway. Apparently they got there by making crap bikes and being jerks. If Neilpryde can't play with big boys they should stay out of the sandbox. BTW it looks like they did the smart thing the decided to not even argue the point you all should join them.


Please do the following:

Settings > Edit Profile > Customer User Title > Type in "Captain Straw Man" > Save Changes


And please accept a complimentary tube of this stuff. I have a medicine cabinet full of it.


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## Winn (Feb 15, 2013)

I apparently am in the wrong thread. Sorry.

So here goes. Down with corporations they are evil!! I am not spewing garbage I heard someone else saying. (like a strawman does right?) I hate big corporations they stink blah blah blah we are the 99% 

Will you guys be my friends now?


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## Mr Evil (Aug 12, 2011)

Winn said:


> ...So you guys don't like huge corporations...


It's not huge corporations I don't like, it's huge corporations _who abuse their power_. This is important for anyone who prefers capitalism to oligarchy. And yes, this means I have a very long list of corporations that I avoid buying from wherever possible, or if there are no alternatives then I will try to do without.


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## den bakker (Nov 13, 2004)

Winn said:


> I apparently am in the wrong thread. Sorry.
> 
> So here goes. Down with corporations they are evil!! I am not spewing garbage I heard someone else saying. (like a strawman does right?) I hate big corporations they stink blah blah blah we are the 99%
> 
> Will you guys be my friends now?


considered going for a ride?


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## Notvintage (May 19, 2013)

Holy crap that shizz was funny! I blew some Pepsi on my keyboard.


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## Winn (Feb 15, 2013)

Mr Evil said:


> It's not huge corporations I don't like, it's huge corporations _who abuse their power_. This is important for anyone who prefers capitalism to oligarchy. And yes, this means I have a very long list of corporations that I avoid buying from wherever possible, or if there are no alternatives then I will try to do without.


I agree but these guys just asked for a name change. Now if they were running sweatshops, destroying the Earth or spreading cancer causing agents all over the planet I would avoid them too. They asked someone to change the name of a bike, they may of asked in a way that no one wants to be asked but, it's not like they sent folks with baseball bats over there. There is so much actual abuse going on out there this is small potatoes really. That is my point. I would argue it if I was still riding my other bike not made by them. It's just a non issue. I do see they didn't sue anyone just had someone who argues well speak with them. Oh well I leave you guys to it now hopefully no one really needs the butt hurt cream for a simple discussion, if you do, use it and accept my apologies for your anxiety (really)


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## tlg (May 11, 2011)

Winn said:


> I agree but these guys just asked for a name change.


change the name... or what? 
Why would they need men with bats when they can threaten with lawsuits and large financial damage.


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## den bakker (Nov 13, 2004)

Winn said:


> I agree but these guys just asked for a name change.


how about specialized changed name of the baijks if they were so worried about confusion. after all it's just a name. Why didn't they? not like specialized figured out the word for themselves in the first place.


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## goodboyr (Apr 19, 2006)

Two parallel threads on same topic. The other is over in the spesh sub forum. This one so far is far more entertaining. Keep it up!


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## Jay Strongbow (May 8, 2010)

In light of counterfeit products being given as the excuse for the Cafe incident this is even more foolish.

Does the big bold Neil Pryde on the down tube really look like an attempt to knock off Specialized?

Specialized is probably doing them a favor though. First there's the free publicity. And if the buying public were to mix up Alize with Allez and/or think the Alize had anything to do with Specialized it's probably not a good choice for a company who's customers are probably people looking to dissassociate from big companies like Specialized. Not that I think many potential customers would see Alize and think of Specialized but if they did it would be a turn-off.


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## headloss (Mar 3, 2013)

Winn said:


> Will you guys be my friends now?


Maybe. Did you get a new bike yet? I won't ride with anyone on a Specialized for fear of being sued for impersonating a Specialized race team.


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## Slow Ride (Jul 10, 2008)

I will pass on replacing my Specialized road shoes with Specialized road shoes. Alize is not allez.


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## Tschai (Jun 19, 2003)

Lots of people raging on Specialized. It is murky as to whether this is copyright infringement. The words are not identical, but the similarities are far from de minimis. The fact that the spelling and meaning are different is not conclusive. I also find it very hard to believe that when NeilPryde was sitting around deciding to name the bike, Specialized's Allez never came up. Given Specialized reputation within the bike industry, you would think NeilPryde would have known better. In a business context, Alize is similar enough to Allez that the issue at NeilPryde should have been addressed. Where was the due diligence?


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## Winn (Feb 15, 2013)

headloss said:


> Maybe. Did you get a new bike yet? I won't ride with anyone on a Specialized for fear of being sued for impersonating a Specialized race team.


Do I have to get a new bike? Can I just feel shame when I ride it or maybe cover/remove the decals. Maybe I can just be sure not to enjoy riding it. I also have an early eighties Raleigh I can ride...


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## SauronHimself (Nov 21, 2012)

This is how a company protects its trademark without being a complete d1ck.


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## plag (Apr 30, 2007)

sounds like the whole Johnny Manziel fiasco with him copy writing anything that has John in it.


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## Winn (Feb 15, 2013)

The first letter is always nice...


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## LVbob (Mar 24, 2014)

Tschai said:


> Lots of people raging on Specialized. It is murky as to whether this is copyright infringement. The words are not identical, but the similarities are far from de minimis. The fact that the spelling and meaning are different is not conclusive. I also find it very hard to believe that when NeilPryde was sitting around deciding to name the bike, Specialized's Allez never came up. Given Specialized reputation within the bike industry, you would think NeilPryde would have known better. In a business context, Alize is similar enough to Allez that the issue at NeilPryde should have been addressed. Where was the due diligence?


Neil Pryde named 3 of their 4 bikes after winds (see Zephyr and Bayamo) which is consistent with the Alize name. I doubt very much anyone at Neil Pryde was trying to capitalize on the Allez trademark.

My own opinion is that trademarks are granted too freely for commonly used words. As much as I hate saying this, the pharmaceutical industry at least gets this right by _*creating*_ names like Cymbalta, Lopressor, Xanax, Fosamax, etc.


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## velodog (Sep 26, 2007)

Not to change the subject.


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## SauronHimself (Nov 21, 2012)

velodog said:


> Not to change the subject.


Are you saying bike manufacturers need to think outside the bun?


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## Cinelli 82220 (Dec 2, 2010)

Tschai said:


> Alize is similar enough to Allez


No.
Different spelling, different pronounciation, different meaning.
Except maybe to someone who thinks all French stuff sounds the same.


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## Cinelli 82220 (Dec 2, 2010)

Jay Strongbow said:


> Specialized is probably doing them a favor though


It likely drives customers away from Spec and to NP.

Frankly, I used to like some Spec bikes but now? No matter how many races they win I would never buy anything from such a bunch of jerks.


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## bradkay (Nov 5, 2013)

Cinelli 82220 said:


> No.
> Different spelling, different pronounciation, different meaning.
> Except maybe to someone who thinks all French stuff sounds the same.


The funny thing is that a lot of uneducated Americans pronounce Allez as Alize (ah-leez). I used to work with a mechanic who told me "that's how we pronounce it in America" when I tried to correct his pronunciation. The fact that I owned one and took nine years of French in school meant nothing to him... That, however, does not excuse the big S from their ridiculous action.


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## AvantDale (Dec 26, 2008)

Specialized had the same thing happen to them recently. They had to change the name on one of their mountain bikes from "Carve" to "Crave". Goes both ways.

People should boycott Apple and Microsoft products too...since they do the same thing.


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## headloss (Mar 3, 2013)

AvantDale said:


> People should boycott Apple and Microsoft products too...since they do the same thing.


MY grand-mother-in-law has the same way of thinking... when she does something wrong, she doesn't say "oh, I'm sorry, it was a mistake." Instead she points a finger at someone else and says, "well, so-and-so did this."

Smoke and mirrors. This is a bike forum, no one cares about Apple/Microsoft in the context of this conversation. I don't ride my computer. Besides, what are the alternatives to Apple/MS? Linux? Come on. In the bike world we have Pinarello, Bianchi, Colnago, Cervelo, Felt, Trek, S-Law, C'Dale, BMC, BH, Scott, Ridley, Merida, Canyon, Lapierre, Orbea, Look, Giant, Focus... and that's just the companies with a bike on the TdF... there are so many more quality frames beyond that. It's a crowded field and Sinyard and co. have no problem alienating potential customers. 

The only thing that S-Law has in common with Apple/Microsoft is the size of Sinyard's ego.


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## ph0enix (Aug 12, 2009)

Did they ever sue Fuji for naming their bikes Roubaix?


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## tlg (May 11, 2011)

ph0enix said:


> Did they ever sue Fuji for naming their bikes Roubaix?


Actually... Fuji (ASI) owns the worldwide rights to Roubaix and licenses it to Specialized . 
When Specialized tried to sue Canada bike shop Cafe Roubaix Bicycle Studio, ASI b!tch slapped Specialized and told them to knock it off. 

Specialized Roubaix Trademark Legal Threat May Backfire As Fuji Weighs In | Cyclingnews.com

"Specialized threatened legal action against Dan Richter, the owner of the Cafe Roubaix Bicycle Studio, for using the name "Roubaix", which Specialized had trademarked in Canada. Mr Richter, a retired war veteran, has said that he can't afford the legal fees of upwards of $150,000 to defend himself against the big red S. "


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## frdfandc (Nov 27, 2007)

This is funny how people take other peoples/companies issues so seriously.Sounds like a lot of people here need to go out and ride their bikes. 

If I wasn't stuck at work that's where I would be instead of worrying about a company's trademark sue practices.


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## ph0enix (Aug 12, 2009)

tlg said:


> Actually... Fuji (ASI) owns the worldwide rights to Roubaix and licenses it to Specialized .
> When Specialized tried to sue Canada bike shop Cafe Roubaix Bicycle Studio, ASI b!tch slapped Specialized and told them to knock it off.
> 
> Specialized Roubaix Trademark Legal Threat May Backfire As Fuji Weighs In | Cyclingnews.com
> ...


I see. Thanks for the info!


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## AvantDale (Dec 26, 2008)

headloss said:


> MY grand-mother-in-law has the same way of thinking... when she does something wrong, she doesn't say "oh, I'm sorry, it was a mistake." Instead she points a finger at someone else and says, "well, so-and-so did this."
> 
> Smoke and mirrors. This is a bike forum, no one cares about Apple/Microsoft in the context of this conversation. *I don't ride my computer.* Besides, what are the alternatives to Apple/MS? Linux? Come on. In the bike world we have Pinarello, Bianchi, Colnago, Cervelo, Felt, Trek, S-Law, C'Dale, BMC, BH, Scott, Ridley, Merida, Canyon, Lapierre, Orbea, Look, Giant, Focus... and that's just the companies with a bike on the TdF... there are so many more quality frames beyond that. It's a crowded field and Sinyard and co. have no problem alienating potential customers.
> 
> The only thing that S-Law has in common with Apple/Microsoft is the size of Sinyard's ego.


I bet you use your computer, phone, or whatever else these companies make more than you ride your bike.

Companies are the different...but the principles are the same.


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## SpeedNeeder (Aug 19, 2013)

frdfandc said:


> This is funny how people take other peoples/companies issues so seriously.Sounds like a lot of people here need to go out and ride their bikes.
> 
> If I wasn't stuck at work that's where I would be instead of worrying about a company's trademark sue practices.


I agree!


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## SpeedNeeder (Aug 19, 2013)

Winn said:


> Will you guys be my friends now?


I will!


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## SpeedNeeder (Aug 19, 2013)

Charlie the Unicorn said:


> Not sure if anyone beat me to it-- Specialized going after Neilpryde because Alize is too close to Allez.
> 
> Allez, allez NAZARÉ - NeilPryde Bikes 2014


Just curious, is this the only documentation of this corporate bullying incident?


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## LVbob (Mar 24, 2014)

SpeedNeeder said:


> Just curious, is this the only documentation of this corporate bullying incident?


Why would you need more? Do you think Neil Pryde just changed the name arbitrarily?


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## azpeterb (Jun 1, 2006)

plag said:


> sounds like the whole Johnny Manziel fiasco with him copy writing anything that has John in it.


Haven't you heard? Specialized has trademarked the name Johnny Manziel too! They did it when he was a 9-month old baby and he threw a 50-yard pass to his dad, and that was while he was sucking on a bottle of milk at the same time. Just wait until Johnny tries to cash in on his name....Specialized is gonna sue him 'til the cows come home.


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## Tschai (Jun 19, 2003)

Cinelli 82220 said:


> No.
> Different spelling, different pronounciation, different meaning.
> Except maybe to someone who thinks all French stuff sounds the same.


As I said in my prior post, you don't need them to be the same. Also, as bradkay says below, many people do pronounce it the same. It may be different in France, but in ******* America these words may have no distinction. It just seems that there is way too much anti-Specialized rage and too little objectivity on this issue.


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## Cinelli 82220 (Dec 2, 2010)

tlg said:


> When Specialized tried to sue Canada bike shop Cafe Roubaix Bicycle Studio, ASI b!tch slapped Specialized and told them to knock it off


That's the real reason Spec backed off.
Yet Chairman Mike made it look like it was his own kindness and humility that made him do it.
See...it's that kind off BS that makes me not like him.


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## SpeedNeeder (Aug 19, 2013)

LVbob said:


> Why would you need more? Do you think Neil Pryde just changed the name arbitrarily?


Of course you are correct, there is no point to hearing both sides of a disagreement before passing judgement...


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## LVbob (Mar 24, 2014)

SpeedNeeder said:


> Of course you are correct, there is no point to hearing both sides of a disagreement before passing judgement...


I'm not passing any judgement. I am still considering a Roubaix as my first bike but can honestly say that I don't like this.

I was looking for a bike last year when the Cafe Roubaix incident surfaced and in follwing that found that they sued a bike shop in Portland, OR called Stump Town (imagine that…a business in Portland naming itself Stump Town). I just don't like all the suing and I do understand the need to protect trademarks which is why I previously said they are granted too freely for common words. 

I confess to being a user of Apple products and the one thing I can't stand about the company is their overly-litigious nature.


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## Tschai (Jun 19, 2003)

LVbob said:


> I'm not passing any judgement. I am still considering a Roubaix as my first bike but can honestly say that I don't like this.
> 
> I was looking for a bike last year when the Cafe Roubaix incident surfaced and in follwing that found that they sued a bike shop in Portland, OR called Stump Town (imagine that…a business in Portland naming itself Stump Town). I just don't like all the suing and I do understand the need to protect trademarks which is why I previously said they are granted too freely for common words.
> 
> I confess to being a user of Apple products and the one thing I can't stand about the company is their overly-litigious nature.


The issue is a copyright issue, not a trademark one. Copyrights are generally not granted, they are registered. In fact, you don't even need to do that to own a copyright. It exists when created. Then, should a dispute arise, it is resolved in civil court. Copyrights are not just about common words. It is how the words are used. For example, Honda's Accord. Accord is quite a common word. Name a car after it and then you have problems.


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## LVbob (Mar 24, 2014)

Tschai said:


> The issue is a copyright issue, not a trademark one. Copyrights are generally not granted, they are registered. In fact, you don't even need to do that to own a copyright. It exists when created. Then, should a dispute arise, it is resolved in civil court. Copyrights are not just about common words. It is how the words are used. For example, Honda's Accord. Accord is quite a common word. Name a car after it and then you have problems.


You got some of that right except that this is a trademark (™) issue and it is trademarks which are registered (®).

I understand your example with Honda's Accord but that trademark is most likely granted for a broad class(es) including automotive accessories and, perhaps, anything related to transportation. That's the reason I think trademarks for common words should not be granted so easily. As I said earlier in this thread, drug companies (and many technology companies) get this right by creating words for their products for which they should be granted a trademark.


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## den bakker (Nov 13, 2004)

Tschai said:


> As I said in my prior post, you don't need them to be the same. Also, as bradkay says below, many people do pronounce it the same. It may be different in France, but in ******* America these words may have no distinction. It just seems that there is way too much anti-Specialized rage and too little objectivity on this issue.


makes you wunder why special ed wuld take one of thos fancy furing words in the furst place.


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## headloss (Mar 3, 2013)

AvantDale said:


> I bet you use your computer, phone, or whatever else these companies make more than you ride your bike.
> 
> Companies are the different...but the principles are the same.


Sure... I'm guilty of using Mac OSX, an Iphone, Win 7, excel and word. 

You miss my primary point, however, that in the smartphone market it's really Apple vs Android and in the PC market it's Win vs Mac and maybe Linux. In the bike world, it's Specialized vs. 30 other manufacturers making equally good products for the same price and without the questionable legal department. 

It's easy for me to avoid Specialized, and given the type of publicity that they continue to grab, I will avoid them. Even if other bicycle companies have blood on their hands as well, Specialized seems to be running one controversial legal move for every every one controversial move by the competition. The dust hasn't even settled on the Roubaix thing and we've had two examples since that was concluded. It's clear that Sinyard and co. haven't changed their policies in response to the social media response a couple of months ago. 

I think it is sad, and I will not hesitate to bash the company's business practices if they keep doing this. Of course, that isn't a negative reflection on the end product... just a stain on the brand. They will lose more than they gain by going after the wrong targets in order to "protect" their brand. I know this with certainty, because in all the controversial cases, there was absolutely nothing to be gained.


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## LVbob (Mar 24, 2014)

headloss said:


> I think it is sad, and I will not hesitate to bash the company's business practices if they keep doing this. Of course, that isn't a negative reflection on the end product... just a stain on the brand. *They will lose more than they gain by going after the wrong targets in order to "protect" their brand. I know this with certainty, because in all the controversial cases, there was absolutely nothing to be gained.*


And I am a case in point. I was leaning towards the Roubaix because I thought the LBS was a better fit for me. Now I am remembering just how great that Synapse felt.


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## Old Man (Apr 8, 2012)

headloss said:


> Sure... I'm guilty of using Mac OSX, an Iphone, Win 7, excel and word.
> 
> You miss my primary point, however, that in the smartphone market it's really Apple vs Android and in the PC market it's Win vs Mac and maybe Linux. In the bike world, it's Specialized vs. 30 other manufacturers making equally good products for the same price and without the questionable legal department.
> 
> ...


This means you choose who you hate and or accept solely because of convenience. 

Big corps do this all the time, nothing new, you are just seeing it more in an industry that has big boys and little boys playing on the same diamond.


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## SNS1938 (Aug 9, 2013)

Classic specialized. Trademark common cycling associated words that predated specialized, then break out the lawyers. 

The PR department should talk more to legal, as most people that hear about these cases, end up having a lesser opinion of specialized afterwards. 

Trek had the whole Lemond-gate ... Has Cannondale done any thing majorly wrong this millennium?


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## headloss (Mar 3, 2013)

Old Man said:


> This means you choose who you hate and or accept solely because of convenience.
> 
> Big corps do this all the time, nothing new, you are just seeing it more in an industry that has big boys and little boys playing on the same diamond.


Look up! It's a bird! It's a plane? Whatever it is, it's over your head? (my point, that is)



> A Red Herring is a fallacy in which an irrelevant topic is presented in order to divert attention from the original issue. The basic idea is to "win" an argument by leading attention away from the argument and to another topic. This sort of "reasoning" has the following form:
> 
> Topic A is under discussion.
> Topic B is introduced under the guise of being relevant to topic A (when topic B is actually not relevant to topic A).
> ...


No, it's not a matter of convenience. Specialized sticks out among its peers because of it's corporate policies. Apple/Google/Microsoft are all playing the same game. I have no reason to boycott the computer companies while I have every reason to boycott a bicycle company that frequently sticks its neck out for stupid reasons. 

If you can't see that, or appreciate my reason to avoid a specific brand then you are either willfully ignorant or insincere (i.e. trolling).

If it's "hate" it is solely due to the number of lawsuits in the last few months. I never had a problem with S-Law prior to the Roubaix thing. If it's hate, it is deserved hate based on a pattern of misbehavior. They may have a legal right to do as they do, but that doesn't make it good PR.


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## scott967 (Apr 26, 2012)

In the US we have common law trademarks, and registered (Lanham Act) trademarks and it makes a difference for certain types of infringements or dilution cases. Trade (service) marks are by definition associated with goods (or services) for sale in commerce. I don't think in general using a word (with or without typographical elements) would be considered an original work of authorship.

scott s.
.


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## CalypsoArt (Dec 28, 2007)

headloss said:


> Sure... I'm guilty of using Mac OSX, an Iphone, Win 7, excel and word.
> 
> You miss my primary point, however, that in the smartphone market it's really Apple vs Android and in the PC market it's Win vs Mac and maybe Linux. In the bike world, it's Specialized vs. 30 other manufacturers making equally good products for the same price and without the questionable legal department.
> 
> ...


I thoroughly agree with you. But you are shaking the tree here. How dare you respond with clear, careful and nuanced arguments. You should know that has no place on and internet forum.


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## CalypsoArt (Dec 28, 2007)

junior1210 said:


> "Dear Mr Sinyard,
> 
> Sir, I implore you to intervene behalf of all us innocent bicycle purchasers who have been had, hornswoggled, hoodwinked even, by those no-goodnicks at Neilpryde. I thought I was gonna buy an aluminum, entry level bike for tooling around my neighborhood, but instead I wound up on a carbon fiber bike with racing geometry, and it doesn't even say 'Specialized' on the down tube! It has Neilpryde on it, they spelled Allez wrong (says Nazare on the seat tube), and it has a different color scheme than all of the other Specialized bike lineup. If I didn't know better I'd swear it was made by another company all together! Please, something must be done to stop these monsters.
> 
> ...


Or maybe this,

Dear Mr Sinyard,
Thank you for bringing my attention the NeilPryde cycles. I had never even heard of them before. Them's some nice cycles. When I saw the Alize (I understand the they changed the name to Nazare) I fell in love. I promptly purchased one and it rides like a dream. Best part, it's a different brand with different colors than the ubiquitous bikes from the major manufacturers. Because of that, It's become a real conversation starter with a lot of beautiful people. Better than having a puppy! Mike, thanks dude, you introduced me to a whole new world.


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## Winn (Feb 15, 2013)

CalypsoArt said:


> Or maybe this,
> 
> Dear Mr Sinyard,
> Thank you for bringing my attention the NeilPryde cycles. I had never even heard of them before. Them's some nice cycles. When I saw the Alize (I understand the they changed the name to Nazare) I fell in love. I promptly purchased one and it rides like a dream. Best part, it's a different brand with different colors than the ubiquitous bikes from the major manufacturers. Because of that, It's become a real conversation starter with a lot of beautiful people. Better than having a puppy! Mike, thanks dude, you introduced me to a whole new world.


That would be kind of neat except no one here owns one do they. I looked at the dealers it seems many of them have either gone out of business or they aren't actual shops at least in my neck of the woods, if a 400 mile round trip is your local store.


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## mikerp (Jul 24, 2011)

frdfandc said:


> This is funny how people take other peoples/companies issues so seriously.Sounds like a lot of people here need to go out and ride their bikes.
> 
> If I wasn't stuck at work that's where I would be instead of worrying about a company's trademark sue practices.


My guess would be we are all in the same boat and should actually get back to work.


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## tlg (May 11, 2011)

frdfandc said:


> This is funny how people take other peoples/companies issues so seriously.Sounds like a lot of people here need to go out and ride their bikes.
> 
> If I wasn't stuck at work that's where I would be instead of worrying about a company's trademark sue practices.


RBR is a bicycle forum. This is the "general cycling discussion" sub forum. Specialized is a bicycle company. And people are discussing their practices. Oh the horror!

Funny you lecture people about getting out to ride their bikes...yet you're here posting too.


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## den bakker (Nov 13, 2004)

Winn said:


> That would be kind of neat except no one here owns one do they.


did you check all users? 
which bikes do I own?


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## frdfandc (Nov 27, 2007)

tlg said:


> RBR is a bicycle forum. This is the "general cycling discussion" sub forum. Specialized is a bicycle company. And people are discussing their practices. Oh the horror!
> 
> Funny you lecture people about getting out to ride their bikes...yet you're here posting too.




I guess you missed the 2nd sentence.

So let me say again. If I wasn't stuck at work, I would be out riding my bike. 

And let me add that browsing the forums allows time to pass by much more quickly when work is slow.


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## frdfandc (Nov 27, 2007)

mikerp said:


> My guess would be we are all in the same boat and should actually get back to work.


You are correct.


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## Winn (Feb 15, 2013)

den bakker said:


> did you check all users?
> which bikes do I own?


Obviously I didn't. Do you own one? If you do why be all mysterious about it? My point was that what he wrote would be a letter that would help the situation. Of course taking the "moral high ground" in a letter that is a lie is bad karma. When I said "here" I meant this thread. I love being wrong so if someone actually ponied up the cash for one of those Nielprydes because Specialized did this by all means correct me. I think someone should put their money were there mouth is buy the Neilpryde just to spite some lawyer. Me personally I make decisions based on what I like not on the actions of slime ball lawyers. Expecting lawyers to do things we like all the time is silly.


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## den bakker (Nov 13, 2004)

Winn said:


> Obviously I didn't. Do you own one? If you do why be all mysterious about it? My point was that what he wrote would be a letter that would help the situation. Of course taking the "moral high ground" in a letter that is a lie is bad karma. When I said "here" I meant this thread. I love being wrong so if someone actually ponied up the cash for one of those Nielprydes because Specialized did this by all means correct me. I think someone should put their money were there mouth is buy the Neilpryde just to spite some lawyer. Me personally I make decisions based on what I like not on the actions of slime ball lawyers. Expecting lawyers to do things we like all the time is silly.


have neither brands? Am I supposed to go out and buy a bike just because of this? 
but the point was you really had no idea what people ride. 
as for putting my money. been many years since specialized have seen any of mine.


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## Winn (Feb 15, 2013)

den bakker said:


> but the point was you really had no idea what people ride.


Again I think that's fairly obvious and I freely admit it I am not clairvoyant. I do know no one has commented on this thread indicating that they did. Which is my point.



den bakker said:


> Am I supposed to go out and buy a bike just because of this?


No which is what I was saying. I don't think generally most people even know anything about the issue


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## junior1210 (May 2, 2013)

CalypsoArt said:


> Or maybe this,
> 
> Dear Mr Sinyard,
> Thank you for bringing my attention the NeilPryde cycles. I had never even heard of them before. Them's some nice cycles. When I saw the Alize (I understand the they changed the name to Nazare) I fell in love. I promptly purchased one and it rides like a dream. Best part, it's a different brand with different colors than the ubiquitous bikes from the major manufacturers. Because of that, It's become a real conversation starter with a lot of beautiful people. Better than having a puppy! Mike, thanks dude, you introduced me to a whole new world.


I wish that were the case, but I doubt they'd start legal action based on that reasoning. My faux letter was meant to be tongue-in-cheek/sarcasm, but the cynicism in it stands (IMO).


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## den bakker (Nov 13, 2004)

Winn said:


> No which is what I was saying. I don't think generally most people even know anything about the issue


which is why others inform them.


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## RkFast (Dec 11, 2004)

If this stuff leaves a bad taste in your mouth, fine. But I wish people would at least realize that this is commonplace and would stop with the righteous indignation. I believe its been mentioned before, but many of the biggest brands are super aggressive in this arena like Specialized are. Apple, Sony, Disney, ALL Pro Sports Leagues. On and on. 

So it appears to be a shitty thing to do, but hardly unique.


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## tlg (May 11, 2011)

den bakker said:


> which is why others inform them.


What a concept huh? People coming to a bicycle forum to discuss bicycle related issues.

I learned about the Cafe Roubaix Bicycle Studio debacle here. Not from the local or national news.


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## dnice (Jul 12, 2012)

RkFast said:


> If this stuff leaves a bad taste in your mouth, fine. But I wish people would at least realize that this is commonplace and would stop with the righteous indignation. I believe its been mentioned before, but many of the biggest brands are super aggressive in this arena like Specialized are. Apple, Sony, Disney, ALL Pro Sports Leagues. On and on.
> 
> So it appears to be a shitty thing to do, but hardly unique.


it's a cycle forum, kinda the place to discuss the bike company's specific brand of *dickish-ness*, no? 

anyway, i like my righteous indignation when it comes to specialized just as someone love their's re: apple. horses for courses, i guess.


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## Crispyraisin (Nov 19, 2013)

Sinyard is an amateur compared to Noel Lee.


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## den bakker (Nov 13, 2004)

Crispyraisin said:


> Sinyard is an amateur compared to Noel Lee.


Well I'm never going to use his cables for my bike then!


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## ruckus (Apr 1, 2014)

Not really sure how a Cafe has anything to do with counterfeit bikes. Not sure how a Neil Pryde Alize is a counterfeit Specialized Allez. I must be really dumb to not see the connection.


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## LVbob (Mar 24, 2014)

ruckus said:


> Not really sure how a Cafe has anything to do with counterfeit bikes. Not sure how a Neil Pryde Alize is a counterfeit Specialized Allez. I must be really dumb to not see the connection.


At least the Neil Pryde issue comes a bit closer to a legitimate trademark issue but…naw.


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## den bakker (Nov 13, 2004)

ruckus said:


> Not really sure how a Cafe has anything to do with counterfeit bikes. Not sure how a Neil Pryde Alize is a counterfeit Specialized Allez. I must be really dumb to not see the connection.


well both names have letters in them. and if you have two teeth or less the pronunciation might be somewhat similar. 
I think that is the argument presented.


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## headloss (Mar 3, 2013)

RkFast said:


> If this stuff leaves a bad taste in your mouth, fine. But I wish people would at least realize that this is commonplace and would stop with the righteous indignation. I believe its been mentioned before, but many of the biggest brands are super aggressive in this arena like Specialized are. Apple, Sony, Disney, ALL Pro Sports Leagues. On and on.
> 
> So it appears to be a shitty thing to do, but hardly unique.


Perhaps Specialized should go into the computer or entertainment industry then? Industries where products actually need to be protected? This isn't a discussion about the need to protect trademarks, it's a discussion about Specialized going after names that clearly are not an infringement (and doing so over and over again). S-Law's lawsuits aren't protecting jack. They are quite unnecessary and that is the problem. I am judging Specialized by how it compares to its peers and competitors, not completely unrelated industries that sell a completely different product.

I could break down further why Apple, MS, etc. aren't good examples, but that would only help you succeed in your attempt to change the subject all together (i.e. red herring).

I agree, it's hardly unique. Happy? I also think it's unnecessary and a valid reason to not buy the brand. My point, all along, is that fortunately Specialized has lots of competitors so it's no problem finding an alternative of the same quality.


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## ruckus (Apr 1, 2014)

den bakker said:


> well both names have letters in them. and if you have two teeth or less the pronunciation might be somewhat similar.
> I think that is the argument presented.


I read the excuse for being a dick was worry about counterfeit bike that a supposed rider bought and it broke on him. Based on that, going after a Cafe and a bike made by another brand seems ludicrious if counterfeit is the worry.

I also find it odd they would do this. Can't think of any positive outcomes for doing this. No one is going to mistake a Cafe for a Specialized or a Neil Pryde for a Specialized. Only outcomes I see are negatives.


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## bradkay (Nov 5, 2013)

Maybe because Specialized has an in-house legal department and they have to find a reason for their existence?


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## tednugent (Apr 26, 2010)

I hope none of you have a Nissan.


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## junior1210 (May 2, 2013)

ruckus said:


> I read the excuse for being a dick was worry about counterfeit bike that a supposed rider bought and it broke on him. Based on that, going after a Cafe and a bike made by another brand seems ludicrious if counterfeit is the worry.
> 
> I also find it odd they would do this. Can't think of any positive outcomes for doing this. No one is going to mistake a Cafe for a Specialized or a Neil Pryde for a Specialized. Only outcomes I see are negatives.


A blind spot is, by definition, an area one can't see. All too often these things get started almost by accident. Odds are some young, junior lawyer who was probably given the job of looking for cycling related products with the same names (make work) came across Neilpryde's site and thought 'close enough', submitted some paperwork, and started the process before somebody with a brain got involved. Then instead of admitting their mistake, they bull forward ('cause winning means never having to say I'm sorry).
The real tragedy of this thing is that they (Specialized) don't seem to learn from their mistakes. After the whole Cafe debacle, you'd think they'd be a little more circumspect on things like this. Apparently not.:frown2:


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## den bakker (Nov 13, 2004)

junior1210 said:


> The real tragedy of this thing is that they (Specialized) don't seem to learn from their mistakes. After the whole Cafe debacle, you'd think they'd be a little more circumspect on things like this. Apparently not.:frown2:


not sure incompetence is a better story to sell.


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## pone (Sep 19, 2012)

headloss said:


> No, it's not a matter of convenience.


i certainly appreciate that point. i've have been on the wrong end of Sony corporate policy on more than one occasion. in one instance i brought to their attention the fact that one of their products was effectively "unfit for purpose." officially they stonewalled. unofficially, a senior rep said, "what do you expect from an $8000 camera?" but it's a little difficult to say you're never going to buy Sony products in my biz. it pisses me off, but there's no point stewing over it.

Specialized makes consumer products. there's just no reason to overlook their sins. there's nothing they sell that can't be bought from someone else at a comparable price except their logo.


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## gio957 (Oct 6, 2012)

Anyone would like to either sell or donate me an swork tarmac sl4? I understand due to this recent event, no one wants to ride their bike anymore.


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## SpeedNeeder (Aug 19, 2013)

gio957 said:


> Anyone would like to either sell or donate me an swork tarmac sl4? I understand due to this recent event, no one wants to ride their bike anymore.


I will accept the second discarded SL4! I'm sorry anyone has to ride such garbage.


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## LVbob (Mar 24, 2014)

SpeedNeeder said:


> I will accept the second discarded SL4! I'm sorry anyone has to ride such garbage.


Why do say this? Most people are commenting on the company's behavior not the quality of their bikes.


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## Winn (Feb 15, 2013)

I think that's the point. I don't think they care about the company's behavior. Of course I'm just guessing. The focus should be on the quality of the bikes let the lawyers worry about the lawyers. I like riding bikes not legal garbage that in the end has nothing to do with how I ride. Now if they start beating children or eating puppies I'll buy a different brand next time.


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## JFR (Apr 18, 2003)

Coincidentally, I'm looking at an Alize to possibly purchase. I already thought it was kind of crazy how it was pretty much named the same thing as the Allez, at least as far as how the average English speaking person pronounces Allez (including the sales staff at the average LBS).

I've posted a separate thread in the Bikes forum looking for input about the Alize (er, Nazare). Please contribute there if you have any, I would really appreciate it. Thanks


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## LVbob (Mar 24, 2014)

JFR said:


> Coincidentally, I'm looking at an Alize to possibly purchase. I already thought it was kind of crazy how it was pretty much named the same thing as the Allez, at least as far as how the average English speaking person pronounces Allez (including the sales staff at the average LBS).


At least now we have one example of Specialized's concern for potential confusion in the marketplace although you were able to make the distinction between the two words including the pronunciation. It's a shame that LBS employees don't even know how to pronounce the name of a bike including common English words (Synapse).


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## SNS1938 (Aug 9, 2013)

LVbob said:


> At least now we have one example of Specialized's concern for potential confusion in the marketplace although you were able to make the distinction between the two words including the pronunciation. It's a shame that LBS employees don't even know how to pronounce the name of a bike including common English words (Synapse).


You'd think if Specialized was so worried about others using the names of their bikes or similar words, then they'd stop picking words which have been associated with cycling for decades before Specialized was around?

Specialized have great bikes, I like their range and spread, by boy do they need to work on their PR.


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## brucew (Jun 3, 2006)

I decided to live dangerously today. I wore my Red Kite Prayer Roubaix t-shirt to the Specialized dealer across the street.










I only needed some patches, zip ties, brake pads, and rim tape. And I left off a 5600 lever in hopes it can be resurrected. It's that time of year, after all.

In any event, no lawyers accosted me. Even when I went back a second time because I forgot the rim tape.


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## Winn (Feb 15, 2013)

I'm sure you're on a watchlist now...


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## Fireform (Dec 15, 2005)

This thread is full of so many kinds of win. 

Hearing how spesh would argue that a bike with NEILPRYDE in giant block letters on its frame is somehow trying to pass itself off as a SPECIALIZED would be entertaining. Too bad they didn't wind up in court.


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## SpeedNeeder (Aug 19, 2013)

I totally support any company protecting their brand - this is key to good business. 
In this case there is only one indirect reference to the incident, that seems to imply specialized is doing business in an unfriendly/disrespectful way. Not cool if this is true, but I remain unconvinced without more info. What does stick with me - the CEO basically said about the Canadian roubaix store 'I didn't know what was happening but we fixed it'. I don't know if the CEO can be involved in every case like this, but how many cases like this are there? Maybe a CEO would be involved in any case where the lawyers are? This is how it goes where I work.


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## aclinjury (Sep 12, 2011)

I wonder how the French cyclists are reacting to this?
Are they thinking:

"why does an American company like to use French names?"

...

"and then the same said company goes after other companies for using French names"

...

"this wouldn't be much of a problem if the English folks learn to speak French, then there woldn't be any ambiguity between allez and alize"


Anyway, I wouldn't be caught dead riding anything with the name Specialized on it.


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## headloss (Mar 3, 2013)

SpeedNeeder said:


> I don't know if the CEO can be involved in every case like this, *but how many cases like this are there? * Maybe a CEO would be involved in any case where the lawyers are? This is how it goes where I work.


Epic Designs (someone might mistake a bag for a bike)
Epic Wheel Works (because, Epic is clearly a word that Specialized owns?)
Stumptown bikes (because, despite Portland's nickname, someone might confuse it with a Stumpjumper???)
Cafe Roubaix (because, well, who cares if it is the name of a city in France... never mind that the trademark is actually owned by FUJI)
Epix Design (really?)
NeilPryde (because all French words look the same in Merica)

So, we are up to what now... six? Did I miss any???
and who knows how many we don't know about... and let's not forget the Volagi lawsuit. Does that count for number 7 or was that a different category of lawsuit?

If Sinyard isn't paying attention, it's well past time that he starts to.

The issue, in my eyes, is that none of the above protect the brand. They just make a bicycle company good fodder for a web forum instead of something you ride.


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## ruckus (Apr 1, 2014)

Specialized is the Monster of audio cables. Local mini golf here was sued by Monster because it was called Monster Mini Golf. I get why maybe someone would be upset in same industry for trademark violation, Alize and Allez is not it, but going after something completely unrelated? Specialized suing a coffee shop? Who is going to mistake a cup of coffee for a Specialized bike?

What really doesn't make sense is that it doesn't do anything positive for the company. NeilPryde didn't violate trademark. All this did was bring more bad publicity and dislike for the company. Maybe among avid cyclists who pay attention to cycling news or read forums will boycott, but the average cyclists probably not. I doubt this will impact Specialized's sales.


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## velodog (Sep 26, 2007)

ruckus said:


> Specialized suing a coffee shop? Who is going to mistake a cup of coffee for a Specialized bike?


Dude, I ain't siding with Specialized, but don't be a knucklehead.
Look at the link.

Road Bicycles, Café Roubaix Bicycle Studio, Cochrane, Alberta


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## ruckus (Apr 1, 2014)

velodog said:


> Dude, I ain't siding with Specialized, but don't be a knucklehead.
> Look at the link.
> 
> Road Bicycles, Café Roubaix Bicycle Studio, Cochrane, Alberta


Yup am a knucklehead. But still who is going to mistake a bike shop for a Specialized bike? It's a shop, not a bike!

I'd like a Roubaix please. Ugh this sucks, I didn't want a bike shop, I wanted the Specialized Roubaix!

I hope Specialized sues Roubaix, France soon. That will be epic.

Wouldn't surprise me if they try to trademark Road Bike.


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## headloss (Mar 3, 2013)

ruckus said:


> I hope Specialized sues Roubaix, France soon. That will be epic.
> 
> Wouldn't surprise me if they try to trademark Road Bike.


The whole matter was settled when Fuji, who owns the Roubaix trademark told Specialized to knock it off. Specialized owns the trademark in Canada, but it was hinted that this ownership in of itself was in violation of the agreement between Fuji and Specialized. 

In that case, S-Law was essentially trying to protect/enforce a trademark that (questionably) they didn't even own! 

Just further evidence that there are too many lawyers in the world. Sadly, it's an over-saturated field made up of liberal arts students who couldn't find a job and went back to school to put off paying back student loans... generally speaking.


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## LVbob (Mar 24, 2014)

SNS1938 said:


> You'd think if Specialized was so worried about others using the names of their bikes or similar words, then they'd stop picking words which have been associated with cycling for decades before Specialized was around?
> 
> Specialized have great bikes, I like their range and spread, by boy do they need to work on their PR.


Only the fallout is a problem for the PR department. They could avoid this if they would just rein in the legal department and/or outside legal team


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## LVbob (Mar 24, 2014)

headloss said:


> The issue, in my eyes, is that none of the above protect the brand. They just make a bicycle company good fodder for a web forum instead of something you ride.


After riding a number of bikes I've come down to choosing between a Synapse and a Roubaix. For some reason, I keep thinking I might feel "dirty" or morally suspect if I choose the Roubaix.


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## tvad (Aug 31, 2003)

ruckus said:


> Local mini golf here was sued by Monster because it was called Monster Mini Golf.


Local mini golf should have been sued just for existing.


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## SNS1938 (Aug 9, 2013)

Saw a bike race yesterday that used the specialized trademarked term "Roubaix" in the name ... Sinyard better fire up the lawyers!


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## aa.mclaren (Jun 25, 2008)

SNS1938 said:


> Saw a bike race yesterday that used the specialized trademarked term "Roubaix" in the name ... Sinyard better fire up the lawyers!


True dat, although it was also won by a rider using a Specialized bike... oh the irony


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## Winn (Feb 15, 2013)

Interesting. Does Trek make good exercise machines? 

Ninth Circuit Revives Suit Over Use of Bicycle Trademark

Also apparently the Roubaix Café has since entered a license agreement with ASI. It's amazing what a little misinformation, a keyboard, the internet, and ignorance can do to make mountains out of molehills.


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## CalypsoArt (Dec 28, 2007)

headloss said:


> The whole matter was settled when Fuji, who owns the Roubaix trademark told Specialized to knock it off. Specialized owns the trademark in Canada, but it was hinted that this ownership in of itself was in violation of the agreement between Fuji and Specialized.
> 
> In that case, S-Law was essentially trying to protect/enforce a trademark that (questionably) they didn't even own!
> 
> Just further evidence that there are too many lawyers in the world. Sadly, it's an over-saturated field made up of liberal arts students who couldn't find a job and went back to school to put off paying back student loans... generally speaking.



Ok, I was with you until you insulted us liberal arts students. First of all we do find jobs. We're the English speakers on the landscaping crew. We may not know how to run that mower, but we are essential for communicating to the client, that they need to move their car so it doesn't get leaf blower debris on it. 

Further, those who do go back to law school, always end up working for environmental groups, saving whales, or on state bicycle transportation policy. So yeah, they'll never pay off those student loans. "Poor Professionals" in every sense of the word. Ha!:17:

Sinyard hires a different kind of lawyer. The kind that moonlights as executioners in the Texas prison system.


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## headloss (Mar 3, 2013)

CalypsoArt said:


> Ok, I was with you until you insulted us liberal arts students. First of all we do find jobs. We're the English speakers on the landscaping crew. We may not know how to run that mower, but we are essential for communicating to the client, that they need to move their car so it doesn't get leaf blower debris on it.
> 
> Further, those who do go back to law school, always end up working for environmental groups, saving whales, or on state bicycle transportation policy. So yeah, they'll never pay off those student loans. "Poor Professionals" in every sense of the word. Ha!:17:
> 
> Sinyard hires a different kind of lawyer. The kind that moonlights as executioners in the Texas prison system.


"You must spread some Reputation around before giving it to CalypsoArt again."

I just have a chip on my shoulder... at one point I wanted to be a lawyer but I went in a different direction due to the combination of a weak economy and law being an over saturated field.


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## BikeLayne (Apr 4, 2014)

......


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## Charlie the Unicorn (Jan 8, 2013)

I was reading Sammy Hagar's book and found this excerpt interesting. Looks like Sinyard learned early -


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## LVbob (Mar 24, 2014)

I bought a Roubaix Expert on Wednesday because both the bike and the LBS were the best fit for me. However, I now use products from two companies (the other being Apple) whose overly-litigious practices annoy the hell out of me. I plan on self-flagellation after every ride.


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## Winn (Feb 15, 2013)

LVbob said:


> I bought a Roubaix Expert on Wednesday because both the bike and the LBS were the best fit for me. However, I now use products from two companies (the other being Apple) whose overly-litigious practices annoy the hell out of me. I plan on self-flagellation after every ride.


if you do it right you'll get all the punishment you need on the road.


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## SpeedNeeder (Aug 19, 2013)

Winn said:


> if you do it right you'll get all the punishment you need on the road.


I like this idea!


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## LVbob (Mar 24, 2014)

Winn said:


> if you do it right you'll get all the punishment you need on the road.


Yeah, but on the ride I will still get some kind of rush. I need torture to atone my ethical lapse.


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## Winn (Feb 15, 2013)

Just watch the first video here
http://forums.roadbikereview.com/ge...ion/chain-lubricant-lonely-surfer-322301.html

Once a day should be enough for your atonement.


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## LVbob (Mar 24, 2014)

Winn said:


> Just watch the first video here
> http://forums.roadbikereview.com/ge...ion/chain-lubricant-lonely-surfer-322301.html
> 
> Once a day should be enough for your atonement.


I already watched and critiqued in the thread. I'm still upset at those who suggested I watch the two vids; they owe me three minutes.

IOW, I'm not feeling *that* guilty.


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## mambo (Jul 29, 2012)

I refuse to buy anything Specialized or Trek and respective affiliates. Whilst Trek are less aggressive on protecting TM's, what many cyclists don't realize is the way both these companies limit the choices in your LBS. They will pressure the owners to not stock certain brands if they wish to continue stocking Spesh or Trek. What made me laugh at Sinyard was his comment that he was so shocked that a Specialized frame should fail until they realized it was a fake. I was at a factory recently that had at least a dozen Specialized frames in for repair, though to be honest a couple were obviously crash damage...


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## TreeKiller (Sep 3, 2007)

I recently steered my wife away from a Ruby to another bike due to their business practices. 

Maybe they should change their slogan to "Litigate or Die!"


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## ziscwg (Apr 19, 2010)

LVbob said:


> I bought a Roubaix Expert on Wednesday because both the bike and the LBS were the best fit for me. However, I now use products from two companies (the other being Apple) whose overly-litigious practices annoy the hell out of me. I plan on self-flagellation after every ride.





Winn said:


> if you do it right you'll get all the punishment you need on the road.


Make sure to wear Cannondale clothes and Trek/Bonti shoes. With competing brands that close together, you get this periodic shock as punishment.


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## mambo (Jul 29, 2012)

TreeKiller said:


> I recently steered my wife away from a Ruby to another bike due to their business practices.
> 
> Maybe they should change their slogan to "Litigate or Die!"


Well done! I recently tried a friends Toupe saddle as I wanted to try out the shape. It was a perfect fit for me, but I have found an alternative.

There are better bikes out there than Specialized for equal or less money


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## Lumia_Black (Apr 30, 2014)

Winn said:


> I apparently am in the wrong thread. Sorry.
> 
> So here goes. Down with corporations they are evil!! I am not spewing garbage I heard someone else saying. (like a strawman does right?) I hate big corporations they stink blah blah blah we are the 99%
> 
> Will you guys be my friends now?


 Who cares what they think, Specialized is a big company who makes basically the best bikes on the planet for EVERYONE's budget. Some just get pissed about the truth and opt to feel more special(ha-ha) and buy there "superior" boutique" bikes so they feel better about not supporting a monster, big bad corporation like Specialized. And yes I ride a Specialized and I AM bragging... My Stump jumper....most awesome riding and feeling bike I've ever ridden in my 8 years of MT biking and I could actualy afford it.


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## Lumia_Black (Apr 30, 2014)

I'm gad they go after these look-a-likes. I sometimes wonder if the offer od my next ebay Deore XT crank for cheap, is to good to be true. They could be copy re-pops.


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## SauronHimself (Nov 21, 2012)

Lumia_Black said:


> Who cares what they think, Specialized is a big company who makes basically the best bikes on the planet for EVERYONE's budget. Some just get pissed about the truth and opt to feel more special(ha-ha) and buy there "superior" boutique" bikes so they feel better about not supporting a monster, big bad corporation like Specialized. And yes I ride a Specialized and I AM bragging... My Stump jumper....most awesome riding and feeling bike I've ever ridden in my 8 years of MT biking and I could actualy afford it.


But Specialized doesn't make the best bikes on the planet. They're just as good as every other big name but no better.


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## mambo (Jul 29, 2012)

Lumia_Black said:


> Who cares what they think, Specialized is a big company who makes basically the best bikes on the planet for EVERYONE's budget. Some just get pissed about the truth and opt to feel more special(ha-ha) and buy there "superior" boutique" bikes so they feel better about not supporting a monster, big bad corporation like Specialized. And yes I ride a Specialized and I AM bragging... My Stump jumper....most awesome riding and feeling bike I've ever ridden in my 8 years of MT biking and I could actualy afford it.


So riding bikes for only 8 years qualifies you as expert enough to pass judgement on who makes the best bikes on the planet....You are a clever chappie!
I bow to your vast experience.


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## SundayNiagara (Apr 17, 2014)

There are many "great" bikes out there. It all depends on what flavor ya like.


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## LVbob (Mar 24, 2014)

ziscwg said:


> Make sure to wear Cannondale clothes and Trek/Bonti shoes. With competing brands that close together, you get this periodic shock as punishment.


Too late. I've been #Specialized.

But the shop has been great so I really do feel vindicated to a degree for my purchase choice. I was really not comfortable with the Cannondale dealer who seemed to always dodge questions, especially regarding their fitting procedure.


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## LVbob (Mar 24, 2014)

Lumia_Black said:


> I'm gad they go after these look-a-likes. I sometimes wonder if the offer od my next ebay Deore XT crank for cheap, is to good to be true. They could be copy re-pops.


I don't think anyone has problems with them going after counterfeiters but they do, like me, have a problem with them pursuing trademark litigation so freely. Suing a bike shop called Stumptown Bikes in a city whose nickname is "Stumptown." Really?

And I just bought a Roubaix and still dislike their aggressive legal tactics.


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## LVbob (Mar 24, 2014)

SauronHimself said:


> But Specialized doesn't make the best bikes on the planet. They're just as good as every other big name but no better.


+1

The Roubaix and the Synapse fit me better than the Domane but, in the end, it came down to the shop I was most comfortable with.


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## Cinelli 82220 (Dec 2, 2010)

Lumia_Black said:


> Specialized is a big company who makes basically the best bikes on the planet for EVERYONE's budget.


Specialized doesn't actually MAKE anything.


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## headloss (Mar 3, 2013)

Cinelli 82220 said:


> Specialized doesn't actually MAKE anything.


You mean, besides an ass of themselves with all this legal nonsense.


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## spdntrxi (Jul 25, 2013)

Cinelli 82220 said:


> Specialized doesn't actually MAKE anything.


not even Money ?


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## ruckus (Apr 1, 2014)

Cinelli 82220 said:


> Specialized doesn't actually MAKE anything.


Specialized isn't even Specialized anymore. They are pretty much Merida. Merida owns 49% of Specialized and is their manufacturer. Merida also uses a lot of Specialized designs on their own bikes, would seem Merida also shares ownership of Specialized designs.

Their is a reason why Merida doesn't market to USA. it's part of their agreement with Specialized. You can buy Merida bikes in Europe which are nearly Specialized clones.


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## mambo (Jul 29, 2012)

ruckus said:


> Specialized isn't even Specialized anymore. They are pretty much Merida. Merida owns 49% of Specialized and is their manufacturer. Merida also uses a lot of Specialized designs on their own bikes, would seem Merida also shares ownership of Specialized designs.
> 
> Their is a reason why Merida doesn't market to USA. it's part of their agreement with Specialized. You can buy Merida bikes in Europe which are nearly Specialized clones.


Ha ha.....

And yes I ride a Specialized (or should I say Merida). God I don't even know what I am riding these days! BUT I AM bragging... My Stump jumper or is it Rock hopper?....most awesome riding and feeling bike I've ever ridden in my 8 years of MT biking. I just wish I knew what the hell I was talking about...............

Perhaps Spesh should change their advertising strapline to - Specialized - MORE BIKE!!!


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## LVbob (Mar 24, 2014)

ruckus said:


> Specialized isn't even Specialized anymore. They are pretty much Merida. Merida owns 49% of Specialized and is their manufacturer. Merida also uses a lot of Specialized designs on their own bikes, would seem Merida also shares ownership of Specialized designs.
> 
> Their is a reason why Merida doesn't market to USA. it's part of their agreement with Specialized. *You can buy Merida bikes in Europe which are nearly Specialized clones.*


Sounds to me more like Merida has been Specialized than the other way around.

I know about Merida's stake in Specialized but can you back up your other assertions or are they just conjecture.


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## ruckus (Apr 1, 2014)

LVbob said:


> I know about Merida's stake in Specialized but can you back up your other assertions or are they just conjecture.


You can talk to a knowledgable Specialized dealer. I had spare time in Boston and there is shop on Tremont near Chinatown, who has had a lot experience dealing with Specialized. He was telling me that one of his customers had bought a bike in Greece and brought it back with him. He brought the bike for service. I don't remember the name of either the Merida or Specialized model, but he did show me the Specialized bike they had in stock that was identical to the Merida. It's anecdotal story, but he did have both bikes to compare. He said it wasn't similar, it was identical.


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## LVbob (Mar 24, 2014)

ruckus said:


> You can talk to a knowledgable Specialized dealer. I had spare time in Boston and there is shop on Tremont near Chinatown, who has had a lot experience dealing with Specialized. He was telling me that one of his customers had bought a bike in Greece and brought it back with him. He brought the bike for service. I don't remember the name of either the Merida or Specialized model, but he did show me the Specialized bike they had in stock that was identical to the Merida. It's anecdotal story, but he did have both bikes to compare. He said it wasn't similar, it was identical.


As you said above:


> Merida also uses a lot of Specialized designs on their own bikes


This suggests that Specialized indeed provides their own designs. Whether or not the two companies have a licensing agreement for sharing designs is unproven and I'm not sure that I would take the word of a dealer who did nothing more than make an observation on the design. What I would like is a formal business announcement stating that the companies are sharing their designs which you have thus far not provided. As is the case with any contract manufacturer, Merida could just as easily lifted design based on production specs and then "designed" a similar component.

As for any agreement regarding Merida distributing in the US, it's just as plausible that, with the stake in Specialized, they see no real business advantage in doing so.

Mind you that I will openly state that all of this is conjecture on my part. I do plan to ask the local Specialized dealer what his take on this is - they are a Specialized Elite dealer and might have more information than the average Specialized dealer.


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## ruckus (Apr 1, 2014)

“It has been a commitment from Merida since we started our own business 40 years ago. In that time we committed to our US buyer that we would never compete with them in their home market. The commitment has been there for years and we follow it. It shows we are a reliable, trusted company.”

Seems this agreement existed with Specialized was there from the beginning when Merida began to manufacture Specialized bikes. I do wonder if the two companies share R&D.


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## LVbob (Mar 24, 2014)

ruckus said:


> “It has been a commitment from Merida since we started our own business 40 years ago. In that time we committed to our US buyer that we would never compete with them in their home market. The commitment has been there for years and we follow it. It shows we are a reliable, trusted company.”
> 
> Seems this agreement existed with Specialized was there from the beginning when Merida began to manufacture Specialized bikes. I do wonder if the two companies share R&D.


Thanks for that. Do you have a link to?

The R&D issue is really the more interesting question. Were there an agreement, I would expect that both companies would have been hailing the combination of resources to revolutionize the industry.


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## LVbob (Mar 24, 2014)

Found this which may answer some questions regarding the relationship between Specialized and Merida:


> *This marriage of one of the world's top brands with one of the world's top manufacturers will create synergy at all levels of business, from R&D to finance to sales and distribution*, said Cash Yang. In a prepared statement, Specialized emphasized that its founder and president, Mike Sinyard, would remain firmly at the Specialized helm after the deal, as Merida was only a minority shareholder. For it's 49% stake in Specialized, Merida paid around US$30 million in cash. Sinyard also devoted an undisclosed amount of personal funds to bolster his company. When asked whether Specialized was strapped for funds, however, Merida officials offered no comment. Practically, the arrangement should bring short term benefits to both companies. Merida will gain near immediate exclusivity for Specialized's orders to Taiwan, as Specialized will no longer use competitors Giant and Ideal. Specialized, meanwhile, receives a quick cash influx to support its current marketing, sales and merchandising programs. Over the long term, Yang said that Merida hopes to win out through a close working allegiance with one of the world's top brands. *In the past, Merida has experienced some difficulty in establishing its own international brand, despite years and millions of dollars spent in the effort.* Specialized announced several far reaching goals for the new cooperation. The first is the continued support of the independent bicycle dealer, a goal in accord with Specialized's focus on products for cycling enthusiasts. Another goal was future expansion and investment in Europe.


Bike Europe - Correction: Merida Buys 49% of Specialized

So it appears that the companies share R&D. The reason that Merida does not pursue US sales may have more to do with their difficulty establishing their brand. Granted this article is from 2001 and Merida's sales could have significantly improved but adding marketing and distribution for the US market would be an expensive proposition especially considering they already have the benefit of Specialized's sales.

Merida is currently distributed in 77 countries but I can find no breakout of their sales by country or region.


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## Marc (Jan 23, 2005)

LVbob said:


> Found this which may answer some questions regarding the relationship between Specialized and Merida:
> 
> Bike Europe - Correction: Merida Buys 49% of Specialized
> 
> ...


Come to think of it I've seen Merida commercials on British Eurosport


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## carbonLORD (Aug 2, 2004)

:rolleyes5:


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## ruckus (Apr 1, 2014)

LVbob said:


> Found this which may answer some questions regarding the relationship between Specialized and Merida:
> 
> Bike Europe - Correction: Merida Buys 49% of Specialized
> 
> ...


Merida doesn't sell in NA because of their agreement not to when they began to manufacture NA brands. This is confirmed by Merida's VP of marketing and relations, Jeng.

Merida?s Tour de France ambition |

Merida has difficulty selling their road bikes, which is why it was important for them to find a UCI team to sponsor. Their MTB bikes are well known since they have won multiple world championships with them. On MTB forum, Merida is well respected. The other issue Jeng says is that Merida doesn't compete with Giant and others in the affordable market. And their website confirms that for me, all their bikes look like $900 or more. And according Jeng their road bike technologies are from their MTB bikes.

Maybe EU cyclists can confirm how prevalent Merida road bikes are?


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## dot (Mar 4, 2004)

ruckus said:


> You can buy Merida bikes in Europe which are nearly Specialized clones.


That's bollaux. Both Merida and Specialized are quite strong in my country and their bikes are totally different.


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## ruckus (Apr 1, 2014)

dot said:


> That's bollaux. Both Merida and Specialized are quite strong in my country and their bikes are totally different.


Well the Specialized dealer said the Merida MTB was a identical to the bike he sells. /shrug.


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## BikeLayne (Apr 4, 2014)

.....


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## headloss (Mar 3, 2013)

BikeLayne said:


> Well around here Specialized is KOM. The bike shops are all Specialized, Most of the roadies I come across out there are riding Specialized.


Glad I don't live there. Even if I wanted a Specialized, I really dig having multiple options. Variety is the spice of life.


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## BikeLayne (Apr 4, 2014)

headloss said:


> Glad I don't live there. Even if I wanted a Specialized, I really dig having multiple options. Variety is the spice of life.


.....


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## middriveebike (Jul 9, 2014)

I have a specialized bike too. I feel bad for myself now...


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## mambo (Jul 29, 2012)

Marc said:


> Come to think of it I've seen Merida commercials on British Eurosport


"Merida - more bike!"


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## mambo (Jul 29, 2012)

I am in Italy next week. I was thinking of making an appointment with the Pope to ask if he would be willing to perform a mass absolution and confession for all Specialized owners... If any Specialized owners would like to take advantage of this once only offer, just let me know on this thread. The alternative is eternal roasting in hell with permanent saddle sores!


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## ziscwg (Apr 19, 2010)

mambo said:


> I am in Italy next week. I was thinking of making an appointment with the Pope to ask if he would be willing to perform a mass absolution and confession for all Specialized owners... If any Specialized owners would like to take advantage of this once only offer, just let me know on this thread. The alternative is eternal roasting in hell with permanent saddle sores!


Any you will get to hell faster now that their top of the line pro frames from the TDF collapse on a fairly normal descent taking out a top contender


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## crit_boy (Aug 6, 2013)

ziscwg said:


> Any you will get to hell faster now that their top of the line pro frames from the TDF collapse on a fairly normal descent taking out a top contender


Not what happened. Been well documented that the broken frame was damaged in an accident between two team cars - not while riding.


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## Winn (Feb 15, 2013)

middriveebike said:


> I have a specialized bike too. I feel bad for myself now...


I ride a Specialized (second one I've had, there was a decade of Colnago in between the 2) and I enjoy every second of it with out guilt I have never cared much about what lawyers do...

and yes the bike broke due to tangling there are 2 ridiculous threads on it hanging around check them out and be edified ziscwg


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## den bakker (Nov 13, 2004)

ziscwg said:


> Any you will get to hell faster now that their top of the line pro frames from the TDF collapse on a fairly normal descent taking out a top contender


well it's good to see some of you trying to keep the specialezed lawyers in business. 
Since you're just spreading BS.


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