# Can you really use a snorkel at a tri?



## Racerrx-3 (Jun 27, 2004)

Curiosity got the best of me! 

Can you really use a snorkel and mask at USAT sanctioned triathlon? 

While at a pool I befriended a non-swimmer who said he was planning on using his snorkel and mask at his first triathlon. I read section IV of the USAT rulebook and see only flotation devices and the rules regarding temp and wetsuits! Am I missing something?


Confused


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## Bocephus Jones II (Oct 7, 2004)

Racerrx-3 said:


> Curiosity got the best of me!
> 
> Can you really use a snorkel and mask at USAT sanctioned triathlon?
> 
> ...


I'm not sure what benefit would be gained. Someone would probably kick off your mask and/or snorkel in the first couple of minutes anyway.


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## svend (Jul 18, 2003)

Racerrx-3 said:


> Curiosity got the best of me!
> 
> Can you really use a snorkel and mask at USAT sanctioned triathlon?
> 
> ...


No, cannot use a snorkle....a mask is fine if one was so inclined but it would really mess with your breathing


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## Tri_Rich (Aug 13, 2003)

*Actually you can*



svend said:


> No, cannot use a snorkle....a mask is fine if one was so inclined but it would really mess with your breathing


You can actually use a snorkel, as it neither aids floatation or propulsion (directly). Charlie Crawford who is the head of USAT officials said as much at least once.

Of course this may have changed since I last saw someone ask this question.


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## Redbird (Dec 9, 2004)

*Why?*

Why? Sure would be a good way to limit your breathing. The added resistance from breathing through the tube would decrease the amount of air you could move at an equivalent effort. Also, the volume in the tube would increase the volume of the respiratory "dead space" air , which is essentially wasted work. There would certainly be no rationale in preventing their use as the user is certainly putting himself under a large handicap.


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## cannibal (Dec 3, 2004)

*floatation arguement.*



Tri_Rich said:


> You can actually use a snorkel, as it neither aids floatation or propulsion (directly). Charlie Crawford who is the head of USAT officials said as much at least once.
> 
> Of course this may have changed since I last saw someone ask this question.


I can't conceive why any triathlete would want to use a snorkel/mask combination during a triathlon with the exception of extenuating circumstances; however, if you argue that a snorkel neither aids floatation nor propulsion, which I happen to agree with, then why are tri suits allowed in triathlons? Ok, to provide warmth and minimize hypothermia during cold swims would be one valid arguement, but don't you think tri suits have less drag and are just as bouyant as a pull buoy floatation device, which are illegal in triathlon. In other words, one could argue that a tri suit is a floatation device in itself, but it is legal and exploited to the max by triathletes due to the speed increase the suit provides as a result from the added buoyancy.


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## Bocephus Jones II (Oct 7, 2004)

cannibal said:


> In other words, one could argue that a tri suit is a floatation device in itself, but it is legal and exploited to the max by triathletes due to the speed increase the suit provides as a result from the added buoyancy.


Agree...wetsuits are a big advantage over not wearing one for the reasons you state. Triatholons are not for poor people. You basically are buying high end equipment for 3 sports rather than one.


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## kar (Feb 24, 2005)

Tri_Rich said:


> You can actually use a snorkel, as it neither aids floatation or propulsion (directly). Charlie Crawford who is the head of USAT officials said as much at least once.
> 
> Of course this may have changed since I last saw someone ask this question.


wow. i would never have guessed. 

has anyone ever seen this done? 
how about someone using one of those "front" snorkels that you see people sometimes use at the pool? 
i wonder if having constant access to air & not having to rotate as much would outweigh the increased resistance (mentioned in another post)?

i have to think that if it were really better, then everyone would be using one. but then again, the start of a tri does look a lot like a lemming migration...


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## NTM (Jul 20, 2004)

*Advantage*

Only advantage is that you would remain in a more streamlined position.


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## Tri_Rich (Aug 13, 2003)

kar said:


> wow. i would never have guessed.
> 
> has anyone ever seen this done?
> how about someone using one of those "front" snorkels that you see people sometimes use at the pool?
> ...


Yes I have seen it and yes they did use one of the "swimming" snorkels. It was a few years ago and I wondered at the time about the legality myself.


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## Tri_Rich (Aug 13, 2003)

cannibal said:


> I can't conceive why any triathlete would want to use a snorkel/mask combination during a triathlon with the exception of extenuating circumstances; however, if you argue that a snorkel neither aids floatation nor propulsion, which I happen to agree with, then why are tri suits allowed in triathlons? Ok, to provide warmth and minimize hypothermia during cold swims would be one valid arguement, but don't you think tri suits have less drag and are just as bouyant as a pull buoy floatation device, which are illegal in triathlon. In other words, one could argue that a tri suit is a floatation device in itself, but it is legal and exploited to the max by triathletes due to the speed increase the suit provides as a result from the added buoyancy.


First of all the things that float are wetsuits, trisuits are clothing and do not float. Wetsuit use falls under another section of the rules and their use is only allowed when the water temperature is below a certain limit.


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## cannibal (Dec 3, 2004)

*clarification noted*



Tri_Rich said:


> First of all the things that float are wetsuits, trisuits are clothing and do not float. Wetsuit use falls under another section of the rules and their use is only allowed when the water temperature is below a certain limit.


My error on the inaccuracy of identifying/associating a trisuit as a triathlon wetsuit. Before the creation of the clothing "trisuit", us regular triathlon folks use to refer to triathlon wetsuits as trisuits.


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## swimbikerun75 (Mar 25, 2002)

*Streamlined position*



NTM said:


> Only advantage is that you would remain in a more streamlined position.


Actually, you're at your most streamlined position when you're on your side, and much of your efficient propulsion, especially in a tri whe you're trying to save your legs for the rest of the race, comes from the twisting motion intiated from your core muscles. So, if one were inclined to use a snorkel and face forward, belly down the entire race, they would waste quite a bit of energy doing what would essentially be a doggy paddle.


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## swimbikerun75 (Mar 25, 2002)

*Streamlined position*



NTM said:


> Only advantage is that you would remain in a more streamlined position.


Actually, you're at your most streamlined position when you're on your side, and much of your efficient propulsion, especially in a tri whe you're trying to save your legs for the rest of the race, comes from the twisting motion intiated from your core muscles. So, if one were inclined to use a snorkel and face forward, belly down the entire race, they would waste quite a bit of energy doing what would essentially be a doggy paddle.


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## NTM (Jul 20, 2004)

*Um hmm*



swimbikerun75 said:


> Actually, you're at your most streamlined position when you're on your side, and much of your efficient propulsion, especially in a tri whe you're trying to save your legs for the rest of the race, comes from the twisting motion intiated from your core muscles. So, if one were inclined to use a snorkel and face forward, belly down the entire race, they would waste quite a bit of energy doing what would essentially be a doggy paddle.


I know that olympic swimming and open water long distance are different animals, but I would still use olypic swimmers especialy sprinters the model of efficient hydrodynamics, everytime that you have to turn your head to breath you create more drag. How many times do you think that they breathe per length, and how often do you see a swimmer sprinting head down into the wall to gain that slight speed. I can't speak from the physics of it as much as I can from the experience of swimming all my life. Just my perception of it.


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## bimini (Jul 2, 2003)

*Sure, I always use a snorkel*

It looks real cool!



Racerrx-3 said:


> Curiosity got the best of me!
> 
> Can you really use a snorkel and mask at USAT sanctioned triathlon?
> 
> ...


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## Tri_Rich (Aug 13, 2003)

NTM said:


> I know that olympic swimming and open water long distance are different animals, but I would still use olypic swimmers especialy sprinters the model of efficient hydrodynamics, everytime that you have to turn your head to breath you create more drag. How many times do you think that they breathe per length, and how often do you see a swimmer sprinting head down into the wall to gain that slight speed. I can't speak from the physics of it as much as I can from the experience of swimming all my life. Just my perception of it.


You're both right, you should be rolling side to side during the swim however your head need not (should not) turn with the body except when breathing.

The front snorkels are generally used as a toll to allow people to focus on stroking with either arm without the form break  frequently associated with breathing.


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## Tri_Rich (Aug 13, 2003)

cannibal said:


> My error on the inaccuracy of identifying/associating a trisuit as a triathlon wetsuit. Before the creation of the clothing "trisuit", us regular triathlon folks use to refer to triathlon wetsuits as trisuits.


It was my understanding that the tri-suit predates the first QR wetsuits (the first used for triathlon).

See here for a brief history from the inventor of the triathlon wetsuit..

http://www.slowtwitch.com/mainheadings/techctr/apparel.html


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## CARBON110 (Apr 17, 2002)

*Hey Rich*

One question for you. On another forum some blockheads told me they didn't think Tri racing was cycling at all. I said it was as much cycling as cross is and cross is a form of cycling. They went on to tell me Mtn bikes was closer to Road bikes than both cross or TT bikes but that is another story. Just because you get off a bike to run doesn't mean it isn't cycling. If you ONLY raced tris would you consider them under the homage of cycling? I do but what do you think Rich since your a tri guy

I also said that the big Iron Man races are as hard as a TDF stage just not 3 weeks long. They didn't believe that either.......and they didn't consider people on tri bikes cyclists at all! LOL


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## swimbikerun75 (Mar 25, 2002)

*My 2 cents*



CARBON110 said:


> One question for you. On another forum some blockheads told me they didn't think Tri racing was cycling at all. I said it was as much cycling as cross is and cross is a form of cycling. They went on to tell me Mtn bikes was closer to Road bikes than both cross or TT bikes but that is another story. Just because you get off a bike to run doesn't mean it isn't cycling. If you ONLY raced tris would you consider them under the homage of cycling? I do but what do you think Rich since your a tri guy
> 
> I also said that the big Iron Man races are as hard as a TDF stage just not 3 weeks long. They didn't believe that either.......and they didn't consider people on tri bikes cyclists at all! LOL


I know you addressed Rich, but I thought I'd weigh in too. I am primarily a cyclist, but I do not do road cycling races, rarely do mountain bike races, and do a few road bike rides/tours. I do triathlons for the challenge and the training variety, though it's evident that cycling is my strength and coincidentally (or not) the part of the tri that I enjoy training for the most. However, I would say that I meet more triathletes with an initial swimming or running background than those with an initial cycling bacground or passion.

To do well in a triathlon, you have to be a strong cyclist, especially in the ironman events, but to say that all triathletes are cyclists, or that triathlon is a form of cycling, is very debateable.


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## Tri_Rich (Aug 13, 2003)

CARBON110 said:


> One question for you. On another forum some blockheads told me they didn't think Tri racing was cycling at all. I said it was as much cycling as cross is and cross is a form of cycling. They went on to tell me Mtn bikes was closer to Road bikes than both cross or TT bikes but that is another story. Just because you get off a bike to run doesn't mean it isn't cycling. If you ONLY raced tris would you consider them under the homage of cycling? I do but what do you think Rich since your a tri guy
> 
> I also said that the big Iron Man races are as hard as a TDF stage just not 3 weeks long. They didn't believe that either.......and they didn't consider people on tri bikes cyclists at all! LOL


Well, that's a tough question. Personally I would probably agree with you, but I would say that any form of transport with two wheels and pedals is cycling. FWIW I have outright won more bicycle races (1) than triathlons (0).

Triathlon cycling is unlike other form of racing though in a few ways. It is, with the exception of draft-legal olympic style racing, a strange cross of time trialling and road racing. While superficially similar to a TT, there is a different dynamic as there is the run still to come. Strong runners need only stay with the competition, without blowing up. Meanwhile, the stronger riders are attempting to either gain enough time to hold on or take enough out of the the legs of the runners. Kind of like a break away rouleur versus sprinter battle in a road race.

I have heard reports of tour riders doing stages with average power of less than 150-200watts, so an IM would be harder than that! I have done IM but not a tour stage so I don't really know, but it seems there would be more places to hide in the Tour peleton. Racing a tour stage or an IM, lets just say both are pretty tough.

I hope that somewhat addresses your question. Someone with that narrow a definition of cycling is IMHO missing out on a great amount of opportunities.


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## Chris T (Jul 19, 2002)

A couple of comments/observations from reading this. First, on wetsuits being buoyancy devices. I seem to remember reading an article looking at the history of tri wetsuits and their design, and the fact that many wetsuit makers, in the beginning, were indeed looking to make the suits (or more importantly, the athlete) as buoyant as possible. Then USAT came down with specifications as to material thickness, design, and so forth. So there are restrictions on the wetsuits. Not sure if there's a link to a website talking about this, though I'm sure it's exciting stuff!

On triathletes not being cyclists. First of all, we have enough problems with other non-cyclists (drivers, pedestrians, hikers, etc.), yet we always seem to squabble amongst ourselves instead of taking comfort in the fact that we all enjoy two-wheeled human-powered propulsion contraptions, and spend exhorbitant amounts of money on them! In that vein, I'd say triathlon is a multi-sport that includes cycling.

I agree with swimbikerun75 that most people in triathlon seem to come from a swim or run background (yes, there's been a change in that, but still 'cyclists' make up a small proportion). In our local tri club, I hear all the time how cycling is the person's weak leg. I think I'm the only one that despises running, everyone else seems to be part of the local running club as well!


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