# Question about non-machined sidewalls



## tree98 (Jan 30, 2011)

What would happen if I threw a front brake on Yellow non-machined Alex DA28's?
Would the only effect be scuffing the paint? Does anybody know of any vintage style wheels that I can ride fixed that are inexpensive but solid (cheap but good for the money) also machined? Thanks for the help.










or something like these (how much would they cost)


----------



## markaitch (Nov 3, 2010)

it does not hurt a thing other than leaving unsightly lines worn thru the coating by the pads
there's quite a few decent lower priced machined wheelsets around if you just search, several have been mentioned in this forum recently.
or...
heres a cute trick i learned from 1 of my son's hipster buddies:
just go ahead & use your brake on the non-machined rim. let it wear thru to the bare metal. then move the pads a little in the brakes a couple times so they wear different spots on the rim. when the worn line/s cover a lot of where the machining would be, carefully take a sanding block (or power sander) to it. ends up pretty much like a machined rim for a just a few bux & a lil elbow grease :thumbsup:


----------



## Special Eyes (Feb 2, 2011)

Consider the strength of the wall of the rim it was not designed to withstand the pressure from brakes. Some may collapse slightly inward. And, the paint will get ugly and may smell if the heat becomes too much. If you want to try something new and take a chance, tape some sandpaper to the pads and spin the wheels while lightly applying the brakes, thus abrasively creating your own paint free stripe around the rim.


----------



## tree98 (Jan 30, 2011)

I like these ideas... What are your thoughts on removing all of the paint off the rim and leaving it bare?


----------



## FatTireFred (Jan 31, 2005)

your color palette is right, so... sprout wood!


----------



## tree98 (Jan 30, 2011)

I love those wooden rims, however unfortunately that is not my bike. But where can I find those wheels... So cool


----------



## MADMAXB (Mar 1, 2010)

I bought a set of Weinmann from here http://www.bicyclewheels.com/merchant.mvc?Screen=CTGY&Store_Code=B&Category_Code=FGW

He also carries Mavic wheels at a good price too
http://www.bicyclewheels.com/merchant.mvc?Screen=CTGY&Store_Code=B&Category_Code=FGM
:thumbsup:


----------



## JustTooBig (Aug 11, 2005)

Special Eyes said:


> Consider the strength of the wall of the rim it was not designed to withstand the pressure from brakes. Some may collapse slightly inward. And, the paint will get ugly and may smell if the heat becomes too much. If you want to try something new and take a chance, tape some sandpaper to the pads and spin the wheels while lightly applying the brakes, thus abrasively creating your own paint free stripe around the rim.


The chance of a rim "collapsing inward because it was not designed to withstand pressure from brakes" is probably lower than being hit by lightning and winning the lottery .... simultaneously. Rims with no machined braking surface are not necessarily of some unique design -- they're just not machined. That does not infer that the rim cannot physically withstand braking. 

Achieving a "home made" braking surface with the described method will also yield less-than-ideal results. The paint removal will be far from uniform, and the further the wheel is from being perfectly true, the worse that result will be.


----------



## SilverStar (Jan 21, 2008)

tree98 said:


> I love those wooden rims, however unfortunately that is not my bike. But where can I find those wheels... So cool



Wood-grain Velocity Deep Vs are available from Niagara Cycle (via Amazon):

http://www.amazon.com/Velocity-Deep-Sides-700c-Grain/dp/B000YBAMOE


----------



## Special Eyes (Feb 2, 2011)

not infer that the rim cannot physically withstand braking.
Achieving a "home made" braking surface with the described method will also yield less-than-ideal results. The paint removal will be far from uniform said:


> Of course it's less than ideal. It's outright crude, but maybe better than braking on paint.


----------



## markaitch (Nov 3, 2010)

Special Eyes said:


> Of course it's less than ideal. It's outright crude, but maybe better than braking on paint.


dood...take a look at these rims & tell me that they are less than ideal? guess what...they did not come from the factory that way. 










how do you think they ended up like this? hint: it was not the method you proposed.
not that it is such a big deal but isn't it amazing what you can accomplish when you put a little effort into something? 
i am quite pleased with the results i got on these things using the process i mentioned earlier.
and i am not the least bit worried they might collapse inward from braking pressure :wink5:


----------



## tree98 (Jan 30, 2011)

markaitch said:


> dood...take a look at these rims & tell me that they are less than ideal? guess what...they did not come from the factory that way.


That is awesome....Have you tried taking all the paint off your wheel using your method or do you have any idea how to do so?


----------



## markaitch (Nov 3, 2010)

i did it by sanding...who the hell wants to sand around all those spokes?
maybe if your wheels aren't built yet or if you can tear down & rebuild them.
or...
i have seen that you can remove anodizing & some other paints & coatings with oven cleaner but that also works better on rims that have not been built up yet, not recommended on completed wheels. 
but whats to lose if you want to try, besides yellow wheels :rolleyes5: 
good luck & have fun...


----------



## Special Eyes (Feb 2, 2011)

Not sure exactly what you are trying to show me in those tiny pics. So you sanded a braking surface on the rims? Yeah, dood, I mentioned that earlier in this thread. Glad to see it worked for you.


----------



## waldo425 (Sep 22, 2008)

I have a non machined rim that I just put a brake on and it does just fine. It takes a while for the track to wear enough for good braking but it will happen and then it is a machined rim essentially. As stated before, it is the same design and nothing unique so there is nothing to worry about.


----------



## Richard (Feb 17, 2006)

waldo425 said:


> I have a non machined rim that I just put a brake on and it does just fine. It takes a while for the track to wear enough for good braking but it will happen and then it is a machined rim essentially. As stated before, it is the same design and nothing unique so there is nothing to worry about.


Yep, they just get "kinda ugly in the meanwhile." But if you want to run a brake on a fixie (like I do) get an "msw" as opposed to a "nmsw" (which is how our suppliers list them in the catalogs) in the first place.


----------



## Dave Hickey (Jan 27, 2002)

I've got to ask a serious question for those the have sanded non-machined rims. why?

Just about every wheelset sold usually offers both machined and non-machined options. and it's usually the same price. I've even seen combination wheelsets where the front is machined and rear isn't

I'm not criticizing rather I'm just asking why..


----------



## markaitch (Nov 3, 2010)

Dave Hickey said:


> I've got to ask a serious question for those the have sanded non-machined rims. why?
> 
> Just about every wheelset sold usually offers both machined and non-machined options. and it's usually the same price. I've even seen combination wheelsets where the front is machined and rear isn't
> 
> I'm not criticizing rather I'm just asking why..


in my case it is very simple...
had the non-machined set on hand, wanted brake/s & was not into buying another wheelset at the time. but i did feel a lil creative & was curious to see how it would turn out. 
it worked pretty well, is an inexpensive answer to the ops problem, sure looks nicer than how braking on a nmsw (as Richard put it) ends up after awhile & not everybody is in a position to buy new stuff anytime they want. 
not a biggie...


----------



## tree98 (Jan 30, 2011)

markaitch said:


> in my case it is very simple...
> had the non-machined set on hand, wanted brake/s & was not into buying another wheelset at the time. but i did feel a lil creative & was curious to see how it would turn out.
> it worked pretty well, is an inexpensive answer to the ops problem, sure looks nicer than how braking on a nmsw (as Richard put it) ends up after awhile & not everybody is in a position to buy new stuff anytime they want.
> not a biggie...


Same exact answer....


----------



## johnsocj (Aug 5, 2002)

Once upon a time, long long ago (actually not that long ago) rims were not machined, ever. I rode a set of box Mavics, and they were fine- just takes some time for the pads to break in. 

There is actually a small collection of retro-grouchy folk that don't like machined rims, because it removes metal from the outside of a rim, and -perhaps- if the rim being machined is slightly out of true, removes more metal from one part of the sidewall than another, leaving the rim prone to weirdness. Whatever. I think machined sidewalls are the second most important development for road braking- right after the double pivot brakeset. 

I'll take my machined rims thank you very much, but, point is, non machined is fine, you probably have MORE sidewall, and hand-sanding the paint of the side- do it.


----------



## Dave Hickey (Jan 27, 2002)

johnsocj said:


> Once upon a time, long long ago (actually not that long ago) rims were not machined, ever. I rode a set of box Mavics, and they were fine- just takes some time for the pads to break in.
> 
> There is actually a small collection of retro-grouchy folk that don't like machined rims, because it removes metal from the outside of a rim, and -perhaps- if the rim being machined is slightly out of true, removes more metal from one part of the sidewall than another, leaving the rim prone to weirdness. Whatever. I think machined sidewalls are the second most important development for road braking- right after the double pivot brakeset.
> 
> I'll take my machined rims thank you very much, but, point is, non machined is fine, you probably have MORE sidewall, and hand-sanding the paint of the side- do it.



Agreed but those rims were usually hard anodized.. Harder than what is used today...and a lot of the rims today are powder coated...


----------



## waldo425 (Sep 22, 2008)

Dave Hickey said:


> I've got to ask a serious question for those the have sanded non-machined rims. why?
> 
> Just about every wheelset sold usually offers both machined and non-machined options. and it's usually the same price. I've even seen combination wheelsets where the front is machined and rear isn't
> 
> I'm not criticizing rather I'm just asking why..


I thought that I had ordered a machined front wheel but it turned out that I had not.


----------



## Dave Hickey (Jan 27, 2002)

waldo425 said:


> I thought that I had order a machined front wheel but it turned out that I had not.


I really like to look of solid color rims...if someone wants to develop a solid rim that allows good braking, I think it would do quite well


----------



## Special Eyes (Feb 2, 2011)

Solid colored rims are cool, I guess, but they should be anodized, not painted. Then, sanding braking surfaces is a non issue. When exactly, did manufacturers start painting rims? A stupid idea. Especially with modern finishing technology offering many colors.


----------



## waldo425 (Sep 22, 2008)

Dave Hickey said:


> I really like to look of solid color rims...if someone wants to develop a solid rim that allows good braking, I think it would do quite well


Yeah they look great. They look very clean and sleek


----------



## Dave Hickey (Jan 27, 2002)

Special Eyes said:


> Solid colored rims are cool, I guess, but they should be anodized, not painted. Then, sanding braking surfaces is a non issue. When exactly, did manufacturers start painting rims? A stupid idea. Especially with modern finishing technology offering many colors.



Personally I don't like a lot of the anodized colors. Anodized red is not the same as powdercoated red...Anodized red is almost maroon in color..

From a pure aesthetics point of view, I'll take powdercoated components vs anodized


----------



## FatTireFred (Jan 31, 2005)

anodizing sometimes/used to fade... remember mavic heliums?


----------



## waldo425 (Sep 22, 2008)

Dave Hickey said:


> Personally I don't like a lot of the anodized colors. Anodized red is not the same as powdercoated red...Anodized red is almost maroon in color..
> 
> From a pure aesthetics point of view, I'll take powdercoated components vs anodized


+1 

It just doesn't look the same. My track frame is anodized blue and I think that I would like the bike a whole lot more if it were just powder coated.


----------



## tree98 (Jan 30, 2011)

Dave Hickey said:


> I really like to look of solid color rims...if someone wants to develop a solid rim that allows good braking, I think it would do quite well


How about disc brakes...I can only imagine that going badly. haha


----------



## Dave Hickey (Jan 27, 2002)

tree98 said:


> How about disc brakes...I can only imagine that going badly. haha


I have a friend that runs a front disc on his fixie


----------



## tree98 (Jan 30, 2011)

Dave Hickey said:


> I have a friend that runs a front disc on his fixie


Thats crazy! Does he like/recomend it? What does he use his bike for?


----------



## Hollywood (Jan 16, 2003)

tree98 said:


> How about disc brakes...I can only imagine that going badly. haha


non-machined rims + fixed + front disc works out beautifully for some of us.


----------



## krustyone (Apr 13, 2010)

Hollywood said:


> non-machined rims + fixed + front disc works out beautifully for some of us.


That is beautiful! :thumbsup:


----------



## Special Eyes (Feb 2, 2011)

Paint is always rich toned and bright and solid. However, anodizing can be that way, too, if done right. I've been having aluminum parts anodized for 35 years and If you use a quality, knowledgeable plater, you can get the bright red you want and not the maroon color by someone who is not doing the red correctly.


----------



## cole91 (May 13, 2009)

I didn't read the entire thread so idk if anyone mentioned it, but I have the Velocity Deep V's with stars all over the rims, non machined, run a front brake and they look great. How? Put Kool Stop Ceramic brake pads in the shoes. They work great and don't jack with your paint. You can have any shop order them for you because chances are they aren't in stock. Carbon pads may work as well, but I just went with ceramics and they're great. 

Because machined tracks ain't cool, yo.


----------

