# Best Value Wheels!



## thebikingcello (Feb 3, 2011)

What is the best Value wheels? I mean a perfect balance of weight, stiffness, bomb-proofness, customer service, ect. Wheels that you would put on a good Al bike with carbon fork. a good upgrade wheel. I first think of the Mavic Elites, any others that are better?:idea:


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## Mike T. (Feb 3, 2004)

thebikingcello said:


> What is the best Value wheels? I mean a perfect balance of weight, stiffness, bomb-proofness, customer service, ect. Wheels that you would put on a good Al bike with carbon fork. a good upgrade wheel. I first think of the Mavic Elites, any others that are better?:idea:


Give us more info - (this should be a Sticky) - what do you weigh, what road conditions, type of riding and price range. Yeah the mavic wheels might be ok if you like expensive wheels for the weight with proprietary spokes (meaning - expensive and hard to get).

What's more important - aero-ish or lighter weight?


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## penn_rider (Jul 11, 2009)

Value, less bling, trusted = an Open Pro, Ultegra traditional spoke wheel. The boutique wheels like the Elites are fine, but they are expensive fr what you get and use proprietary spokes which can be a pain when sourcing when/if one breaks.


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## thebikingcello (Feb 3, 2011)

I am 6'3" and 190 pounds about(plan on losing about 10+ this season ). I live in IL so semi aero and light enough for climbing. I want like, a do it all wheel. I just heard about mavic elites that they are good, never really tried them. So, a middle weight wheel?


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## Zen Cyclery (Mar 10, 2009)

At 190 lbs, you will definitely need something rigid as well as fairly light. However, the Elite does seem a bit heavy at 1550 grams to be considered a worthwhile upgrade. It would be fairly easy to shave at least 100 grams from that weight. You could always go with something like a Velocity Fusion or Kinlin XR270 rim. If you were to lace either of these to something like a White Industries hub you would be looking right around the 1450 gram range. Additionally, either of these options would more than likely exceed the Elite in quality, rider specificity, and versatility.


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## Mike T. (Feb 3, 2004)

thebikingcello said:


> I am 6'3" and 190 pounds about(plan on losing about 10+ this season ). I live in IL so semi aero and light enough for climbing. I want like, a do it all wheel. I just heard about mavic elites that they are good, never really tried them. So, a middle weight wheel?


You didn't give a price range so I'm going to give you what I consider better than the Mavic Elites you mentioned. Those wheels, and many like them, are expensive (for their weight and quality) due partly to massive advertising budgets. They're nothing special in quality (unlike many hand-built custom wheelsets at $600 - <<$1600>>) and certainly no better than many housebrand wheelsets with parts sourced in Asia. Wheelsets with Asian sourced parts tend to be less money and (at least) equal quality.

The finest ones I know of are marketed by this forum's sponsor (BWW.....their ad is top right of this page) and they assemble all their wheels in sunny CA USA. I'll mention three choices for you and their attributes.

Blackset Race - 1495 grams, 24mm depth rims, 24/28 DT Comp spokes, $330. Probably the best bang for the dollar on the market. Great all-round wheels for sub-200lb people.
http://www.bicyclewheelwarehouse.co...lackset-race-11-wheel-set-1495g-/prod_34.html

Blackset Race "Podium Build" - same as the BSR but with Sapim CX-ray spokes (ovalized aero), 1405g, $499. I have a set of these and they are excellent. Compare them to other Asian sourced wheels at $650 and heavier.

Pure Aero - 30mm deep aero-ish rims, 1615g, Equip build with DT Comp spokes, $330.
Pure Aero "Podium Build" - same wheels but with CX-Ray spokes, 1525g, $499.
Compare those to other Asian sourced wheelsets a $650.
Both use the same link -
http://www.bicyclewheelwarehouse.com/road/700c/riders-220-or-less/pure-aero-700c/prod_184.html

They're built by people who give out advice on this forum (Chris & Pat) warrantied and are just about impossible to beat for quality, weight & price.


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## KMan (Feb 3, 2004)

Mike T. said:


> Pure Aero "Podium Build" - same wheels but with CX-Ray spokes, 1525g, $499.


So are these wheels pretty much the same as the Boyd Vitesse wheels?
http://boydcycling.com/alloy/Vitesse.html

Rim depth - 30mm
Rim weight - 455g
Spokes - Black Sapim CX Ray
20 spokes front radial laced
24 spokes rear 2X laced both sides
Black Self-Locking Brass Nipples
Hubs - 68g front - 255 g rear
Skewers included

2 year warranty

Will building a wheelset same as the two above using either a DA hub or WI hub greatly increase the total wheelset cost?

Michael


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## dogtorlam (Nov 14, 2010)

I'm going to throw up a vote in the same $300-400 price range for Easton EA50's or EA50Aeros. Handmade, great bladed spokes, light weight for the money, and well built.


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## Bridgey (Mar 26, 2003)

Yishun Carbon's 50mm or 38mm. About $550 and about 1300gms.


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## thebikingcello (Feb 3, 2011)

I don't feel mentally safe on carbon rims just yet. The Eastons sound AMAZING


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## Mike T. (Feb 3, 2004)

KMan said:


> So are these wheels pretty much the same as the Boyd Vitesse wheels?


Similar. The Boyd have a narrow rear hub and just 20/24 spokes which wouldn't be my choice for general purpose wheels. I hate carrying my bike.



> Will building a wheelset same as the two above using either a DA hub or WI hub greatly increase the total wheelset cost?


Yes, to $900 -

http://www.bicyclewheelwarehouse.co...e-race-superlight-700c-dura-ace/prod_150.html


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## KMan (Feb 3, 2004)

Mike T. said:


> Similar. The Boyd have a narrow rear hub and just 20/24 spokes which wouldn't be my choice for general purpose wheels. I hate carrying my bike.
> 
> 
> Yes, to $900 -
> ...


WOW! I thought the retail price on the 7900 DA hubs was just under $400. So I guess the hubs they use on the stock build priced at $500 are considered free to charge $400 extra using the DA hubs.


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## Mike T. (Feb 3, 2004)

KMan said:


> WOW! I thought the retail price on the 7900 DA hubs was just under $400..


$540/set at Colorado Cyclist and Competitive Cyclist.


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## KMan (Feb 3, 2004)

Mike T. said:


> $540/set at Colorado Cyclist and Competitive Cyclist.


1st website I went looking at last night for pricing was Excel $145 for the front and $252 for the rear = $397 for the set DA7900

.....so RETAIL price on parts to build are about $397 for the hubs, $140 for rims (Kinlin XR-)and $175 for spokes/nipples (Sapim CX-Rays) = $712 total

Michael


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## Mike T. (Feb 3, 2004)

KMan said:


> 1st website I went looking at last night for pricing was Excel $145 for the front and $252 for the rear = $397 for the set DA7900
> Michael


Great price! I wish I needed some.


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## clayton.cole23 (Feb 25, 2011)

williamscycling.com I have the 30s for over 2 years. Still true and race on them. $500 and 1580grams. About to buy the 19s


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## bhyman2 (Apr 12, 2009)

Mike T. said:


> Similar. The Boyd have a narrow rear hub and just 20/24 spokes which wouldn't be my choice for general purpose wheels. I hate carrying my bike.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


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## coachboyd (Jan 13, 2008)

Well, we haven't had any issues with the hubs, although all new orders are using a new hub. The flanges are spaced further apart, and the weight has dropped by about 40 grams. Still, the old hubs have performed wonderfully and I wouldn't hesitate to use them at all.

I have never had a customer tell me they have had to carry their bike (except all the people racing cyclocross when they're going over the barriers)


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## Mike T. (Feb 3, 2004)

bhyman2 said:


> Whats wrong with their 20/24 hubs? Inferior to BicycleWheelWarehouse's? Opinion on these hubs? http://cgi.ebay.com/Super-light-6-P...ccessories&hash=item2eb427f016#ht_1816wt_1139


AFAIK the Boyd hubs are not like the ones you linked. The Boyd appear to be equal flange size/narrow flange spacing for the rear hub - and I prefer wider flange spacing for wheel lateral stiffness. Plus, I personally would not entertain 20/24 spoke wheels. The penalty for there not being enough spokes far outweighs any benefit. 

Those hubs you linked to are too much money and you would have a devil of a job getting warranty from a direct Taiwan e-bay purchase. Forum poster *SBH1973* who operates this site and is a *RBR site sponsor* sells Taiwan hubs for a better price and offers warranty, parts and service, not to mention free shipping *and* he's in NC USA -

http://www.bikehubstore.com/default.asp

Here he is sponsoring the site -

http://www.roadbikereview.com/cat/wheels/hubs/PLS_2500crx.aspx


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## bhyman2 (Apr 12, 2009)

Mike T-You the man finding better supplier, especially one here in the States (NC!)
http://www.bikehubstore.com/, and a supporter of the website

So I guess I'd get the following:

-2 Kinlin 30mm rims, 24/28
-hubs 24/28
http://www.bikehubstore.com/category-s/121.htm

-CX RAY spokes
-Nipples (whatever goes with CX Ray)
-QR
http://www.bikehubstore.com/Titanium-Quick-Release-Skewer-Black-43-5-grams-p/qr43black.htm

What would be best way to get this done?
1. Contact local builder and have him order the stuff/build it
2. Get supplies myself and have builder construct wheels? Only issue I could see is not knowing what length spokes and specific nipple selection.


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## Zen Cyclery (Mar 10, 2009)

Bhyman2- Alot of people like to find a mechanic that they trust at the LBS to do most of their wheels for them. That is how I got started and it is great because you have a name and a face to hold accountable for issues down the road. They key is though, to find that one mechanic. Chances are, if you walk into a random LBS and give you parts to the shop, they are going to let some 16 y.o. kid with no experience try his first wheelbuild on your setup (believe me, I was that kid not too long ago). When thinking about that from the customers perspective, it is pretty scary. So if you do build local, take the time to find someone who knows what their doing.


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## Mike T. (Feb 3, 2004)

bhyman2 said:


> Mike T-You the man finding better supplier, especially one here in the States (NC!)
> http://www.bikehubstore.com/, and a supporter of the website


Brandon isn't hard to find as he's a poster here and he wanted to support this site with his advertising dollars. Those people deserve a mention.



> So I guess I'd get the following:
> -2 Kinlin 30mm rims, 24/28


Again, check with Brandon at the BikeHubStore as last time I spoke with him he was getting a big supply of Kinlin rims and CX-Ray spokes. I'm not sure what stage he's at.

As for getting them built, check the info in my sig and see if you're up to building them yourself. I've helped hundreds of people to build their first wheels. Or, for some reason, if you're not up to it, find a *competent* local builder to do it for you. Probably $40-50 per wheel would do it.

If you have questions after you have read my site (and hopefully Roger's e-book that's linked from my site) just ask here or PM me.


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## bhyman2 (Apr 12, 2009)

Zen-I just sent an email to a mechanic who I know will build quality. Only problem is I'm moving to Houston in 2 months...local mechanic in Knoxville offers free truing for life also 

Ultimate "best" verdict-wait until I move to Houston, develop a relationship with people at whatever shop I ride with. Get someone there to ultimately build the ideal wheel set, and have free truing?

Or be selfish and give business to Luke who I've known for going on 3 years. Maybe he will do such a great job I won't need truing in foreseeable future!


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## Zen Cyclery (Mar 10, 2009)

Bhyman2- 

Well, I think that if you like the guy who your going to now, definitely have him build the wheels. If there is going to be truing issues, hopefully they should be within the first few weeks of riding. Usually when a wheel comes out of true (if its not crash related) it is because of improper stress relieving. So go out, romp the wheels hard, get them inspected before you move, and hope they last!


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## terbennett (Apr 1, 2006)

penn_rider said:


> Value, less bling, trusted = an Open Pro, Ultegra traditional spoke wheel. The boutique wheels like the Elites are fine, but they are expensive fr what you get and use proprietary spokes which can be a pain when sourcing when/if one breaks.


+1....Inexpesive, moderate weight and reliable. Can't offer anymore value than that


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## KMan (Feb 3, 2004)

No love here for the American Classic 420's?
I know AC hubs haven't the "Best" reputation, but they can't be any worse than the Chineese hubs being sold on all these generic wheel builds. laced to 420gram 34mm?? rims with Sapim CX-Ray spokes? Granted new these are +$1,000, but I see these all the time for sale around $500.

Just asking
Michael


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## TomH (Oct 6, 2008)

bhyman2 said:


> Mike T-You the man finding better supplier, especially one here in the States (NC!)
> http://www.bikehubstore.com/, and a supporter of the website
> So I guess I'd get the following:
> -2 Kinlin 30mm rims, 24/28
> ...


I will have these wheels built up and for sale by the end of April (kinlin xr300's and bitex hubs)  Same rear hub but a much (much much) stronger front. Adds 37 grams. The price will be surprising.


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## Blue CheeseHead (Jul 14, 2008)

thebikingcello said:


> I don't feel mentally safe on carbon rims just yet. The Eastons sound AMAZING


You can find EA70's for $399 all day long. Great wheels. I have the EA90sl's (found them last year for $499 on clearance) and they suit me at 195-205 lbs.

Best "value" wheels I ever had was a set of Open Pro 32 spokes laced to Dura-Ace hubs. Found them in near new condition of Craig'sList for $120!


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## Drew Eckhardt (Nov 11, 2009)

penn_rider said:


> Value, less bling, trusted = an Open Pro, Ultegra traditional spoke wheel.


I've been riding Mavic Reflex Clincher/Open Pro rims for the last 15 years and while they work great the price to replace a rim has gone up steadily and people have begun complaining about cracking around the spoke holes.

Less expensive alternatives exist which are better (at least one of more aerodynamic/lighter/with offset spoke beds for higher non-drive side tension), available in more interesting color combinations (I like the Kinlin polished silver look, but blue, gold, pink, red, white, and the ubiquitous black are available too), and drillings for fewer spokes (I haven't crossed the 28 F / 32 R spoke psychological hurdle, although 24 and 20 hole options are available).

The 27mm deep Kinlin XR-270 is an obvious choice for a more aero profile at the same weight as an Open Pro. I'm trying a set of the XR-300 30mm 465g flavor since I needed to rebuild my Powertap wheel, have a matching front hub to go with it, and didn't want to wait for silver 32 hole XR-270s.

The Velocity Aerohead and IRD Cadence have offset rear variants (OCR/VSR) which people like. The IRDs have eyelets and weigh in at 390g.


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## the mayor (Jul 8, 2004)

What ever happened to Mike at Odds and Endos?
I was going to mention him...but it looks like his web site is gone?
I have 2 sets of his Speedcific/Nobium wheels that I have put 10s of thousands of miles on....the 2 rears are getting a little thin in the braking area. 
Is he still around?


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## BarryG (Jul 5, 2004)

the mayor said:


> What ever happened to Mike at Odds and Endos?


Ditto on wondering what happened to Mike Garcia's wheel building business???


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## Elmer12 (Sep 11, 2009)

Best value - Neuvation.


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## cipherap15 (Nov 16, 2012)

How bout getting Used wheel sets. Is that ever a good idea or always better to go new? Always curious and wondered what the miles a wheelset can go without any real wear on it.


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## Drew Eckhardt (Nov 11, 2009)

cipherap15 said:


> How bout getting Used wheel sets. Is that ever a good idea or always better to go new? Always curious and wondered what the miles a wheelset can go without any real wear on it.


Spoke life depends on how well built the wheels are. Properly tensioned and stress relieved quality spokes are good for 300,000 miles. Combine no stress relieving, tension uniformity problems, lower grade spokes, and a heavy rider and they might get 2,000 miles before the first start breaking after which the rest will soon follow like popcorn.

When alloy nipples are properly lubricated they're reusable a decade later. If not they'll seize in a few years (if not sooner). Brass is more tolerant of abuse.

If a know reputable individual built those wheels you're in good shape. If they were hand-built or finished in a shop you might have gotten the new guy on his first and last week (after which he gets fired for bad wheels). If they were machine built I wouldn't count on it.

Bearing life depends on adjustment, lubrication, and contamination from wet and/or dirty conditions.

Personally I'd start with a set of nice Shimano or Campagno hubs (you can get lighter, but you probably won't get better built. For instance, boutique hubs usually don't get their spoke holes coined) and lace them to the commodity rim of my choice.

The next time you wear out your break tracks or bend a rim with an obstacle or crash it's about $50 to be back in business which doesn't buy much out of the QBP catalog.


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