# defective supersix evo frame?



## hernluis (May 1, 2014)

I just bought a new 2014 supersix evo from dealer and found chain stay clearance issues and wheel centering issues. This was more evident going to 25mm tires. There is only 1mm clerance on drive side where tire comes near chain stay. On non drive side there are about 4mm clearance. The wheels is fully seated in dropouts. I thought it may be a wheel dish problem so i flipped the wheel around backward and same issue with clearance on same side. I figured if it was a wheel dish problem the clerance issue would be evident on the other side but it wasnt. Do you think this is a manufacturer defect on the frame? If i ride it this way it will surely rub and i dont want to use 23mm tires.


----------



## tvad (Aug 31, 2003)

hernluis said:


> I just bought a new 2014 supersix evo from dealer and found chain stay clearance issues and wheel centering issues. This was more evident going to 25mm tires. There is only 1mm clerance on drive side where tire comes near chain stay.


25mm tires do not work well on the EVO frame, as you have discovered. It's not a defect. It's intrinsic to the design of the frame. I know this from having owned a 2014 SuperSix EVO HiMod (great frame BTW).

Either use 23mm tires or buy a different frame.


----------



## bikerjulio (Jan 19, 2010)

I'd be taking it back. Have read of this problem before.

@tvad's response is correct in the sense that 25mm tires can be tight. I had to use Conti's rather than Mitch. But the clearance issue was at the seat tube. I'd still say that a wheel should be centered.


----------



## ph0enix (Aug 12, 2009)

tvad said:


> 25mm tires do not work well on the EVO frame, as you have discovered. It's not a defect. It's intrinsic to the design of the frame.
> 
> Either use 23mm tires or buy a different frame.


I believe this is the case. It's not a defect.


----------



## tlg (May 11, 2011)

Take it back to your dealer. It's a known defect on the EVO. I know two people who had the same problem on their '14 EVO's. Both got a new '15 EVO Hi-Mod as replacement. 
Cannondale knows of the problem and are good about taking care of it.


----------



## Jay Strongbow (May 8, 2010)

tvad said:


> 25mm tires do not work well on the EVO frame, as you have discovered. *It's not a defect. It's intrinsic to the design of the frame. *I know this from having owned a 2014 SuperSix EVO HiMod (great frame BTW).
> 
> Either use 23mm tires or buy a different frame.


Really?? That can't be, can it? Wheel not in the center by design?


----------



## tvad (Aug 31, 2003)

Jay Strongbow said:


> Really?? That can't be, can it? Wheel not in the center by design?


The wheel was always centered in my frame (verified where the seat stays meet the seat tube), but there's not enough clearance where the chain stays narrow toward the seat tube for a 25mm tire (especially on the drive side, as the OP stated).

BTW, it's pretty easy to mistakenly install a wheel so it's not centered. Loosen the skewer, center the wheel (check the centering at the seat stay/seat tube), and re-tighten the skewer.


----------



## duriel (Oct 10, 2013)

tvad said:


> The wheel was always centered in my frame (verified where the seat stays meet the seat tube), but there's not enough clearance where the chain stays narrow toward the seat tube for a 25mm tire (especially on the drive side, as the OP stated).
> 
> BTW, it's pretty easy to mistakenly install a wheel so it's not centered. Loosen the skewer, center the wheel (check the centering at the seat stay/seat tube), and re-tighten the skewer.


I don't think you can check the centering of the wheel using the seat stays. The wheel could be centered there and the front of the wheel not centered in the chainstays.

I discovered my wheel was not tracking and am currently using shims inside the dropouts to realign, my frame is out of warrenty.


----------



## tvad (Aug 31, 2003)

duriel said:


> I don't think you can check the centering of the wheel using the seat stays. The wheel could be centered there and the front of the wheel not centered in the chainstays.


I disagree, but it doesn't really help to further the discussion.

If the issue is a known problem, then the OP should definitely contact his dealer and file a warranty claim. 

I had no problems running 23mm tires on my EVO HiMod, and I loved every minute on that frame. Never missed having 25mm tires.


----------



## Peter P. (Dec 30, 2006)

There is no practical reason to have varying left/right chainstay clearance. Tire clearance between the chainstays should be equal on both sides. While it's true that the clearance variation SHOULD have nothing to do with frame alignment as the inside of the chainstays is not a reference point, in reality due to the expected symmetrical spacing of the wheel vs. the inside of the chainstays, the only explanation is a defective frame.


----------



## hernluis (May 1, 2014)

I called my dealer and man i am regretting buying the bike there. They tried to convince me that the frame is made that way and that it might be a wheel dish problem. They offered to look at the frame and "redish" the wheel. I asked if they would replace my carbon rear wheel when it failed due to improper dish and they said nothing and to just bring the bike in. Sucks because they are four hours away.


----------



## tvad (Aug 31, 2003)

hernluis said:


> I called my dealer and man i am regretting buying the bike there. They tried to convince me that the frame is made that way and that it might be a wheel dish problem. They offered to look at the frame and "redish" the wheel. I asked if they would replace my carbon rear wheel when it failed due to improper dish and they said nothing and to just bring the bike in. Sucks because they are four hours away.


Seems to me that if this is a known problem that Cannondale is dealing with by exchanging for new frames, then the dealer would be able to contact Cannondale to get the official policy.

On the other hand, you could contact Cannondale yourself and explain the situation.

Either way, if this indeed a known issue, then there's a policy in place, and it's simply a matter of speaking to the right person to address it.


----------



## ddave12000 (Aug 16, 2013)

Interesting. I don't have any problems running 25s on my 2014 Evo with one exception: earlier this year I must have hit some potholes too hard on a ride and the wheel went severely out of true and because of that I got a slight amount of rubbing on the drive side chain stay. Once the wheel was trued, no issues. I've never measured but the wheel appears to be perfectly centered.


----------



## deviousalex (Aug 18, 2010)

I just built up a 2013 SuperSix EVO Hi-Mod Di2 50cm. I have a Ritchey "25mm" tire on a BHS C22t rim that's 24mm wide. The tire measured to be 27mm using digital calipers. I tried to measure the space between the stays, but it's kinda hard to get in there. Eye-balling it I'm guessing about 1.5mm. The right and left do look slightly different but I think my rear might be dished just a smidge incorrectly. I saw that the shop I had built it use the Park Tool WAG-5 which I've found to be inaccurate before. It's also pretty hard to eye-ball this stuff because the gears create some optical illusions that make things look not symmetric. If I have time tomorrow I'll check the dish and report back.

But there should be no real issue running 25mm tires on this frame. What rims do you have.


----------



## Srode (Aug 19, 2012)

Trek Crockett chain stays are tighter on the DS than NDS too, and from looking at it and pictures of others, I believe that is by design. Of course it's got a lot more tire clearance, I have a 40mm rear on it now and it's tighter than I would want in muddy terrain on the DS, but fine for hard pack / gravel etc.


----------



## tlg (May 11, 2011)

hernluis said:


> I called my dealer and man i am regretting buying the bike there. They tried to convince me that the frame is made that way and that it might be a wheel dish problem. They offered to look at the frame and "redish" the wheel. I asked if they would replace my carbon rear wheel when it failed due to improper dish and they said nothing and to just bring the bike in. Sucks because they are four hours away.


Insist that the dealer talks to the Cannondale Rep. Or find another dealer. Or contact Cannondale yourself. 

The Cannondale Rep didn't even blink an eye at replacing my friends EVO.


----------



## deviousalex (Aug 18, 2010)

tlg said:


> Insist that the dealer talks to the Cannondale Rep. Or find another dealer. Or contact Cannondale yourself.
> 
> The Cannondale Rep didn't even blink an eye at replacing my friends EVO.


Do you know how much it was off by?


----------



## tlg (May 11, 2011)

deviousalex said:


> Do you know how much it was off by?


No. Just that they both had rubbing with 25's and 23's. According to the rep the issue was the dropouts and not the chainstays.


----------



## deviousalex (Aug 18, 2010)

I checked the dish of the wheel by using another wheel and it seems fine (brakes don't need adjustment and are centered properly), although it does appear the wheels is slightly more to the drive side. Maybe 0.5mm or so.


----------



## hernluis (May 1, 2014)

Here is a picture. Really hard to get a good photo and even harder to get calipers in there. Ill try to get a better pic tonight.


----------



## duriel (Oct 10, 2013)

What I used to determine centering is the drill end of a wood bit. They have hex heads and one can visually judge the extent of depth the flat part can be extended up between the brake track and the chainstay. You can also keep your hand out of the way if you want to spin the wheel.


----------



## ColaJacket (Apr 13, 2015)

hernluis said:


> Here is a picture. Really hard to get a good photo and even harder to get calipers in there. Ill try to get a better pic tonight.


Can you get a picture of both the chain stay and the seat stay? If the wheel is on the same place on both, it might just be a matter of how the wheel is put on. If the wheel is in different places on both, then it's more likely a manufacturing defect.

GH


----------



## hernluis (May 1, 2014)

new update.

I as able to take the bike to the shop I bought it at for them to take a look. I spoke to the guy who initially sold it to me and he had the hardest time seeing what the problem was. Totally denied any issue with the bike. Looked at it and was like "yep its the wheel, I can tell totally by looking at it that its not the frame" took the wheel off which was perfectly dished and said it was a little off. He "redished" it and the problem was worse. Completely denied any issue. By this time we were arguing and he was throwing his arms up and was getting really upset. I practically made him take photos and call cannondale. He even said "we are not going to warranty this". He was a total d bag. Every other supersix in the store has perfectly centered rear wheels. he would not even look at another bike. one week later cannondale wants to warranty the frame!!! Eat you words crappy mechanix!!!

I initially bought a 2014 supersix evo racing edition, ultegra
option 1: replace with a new whole bike 2015 model in red ultegra (does not exist on website)
option 2: supersix evo frame, team replica color. Year not known and i would pay to switch components over. honesty I would switch components over myself.

what do I do?


----------



## deviousalex (Aug 18, 2010)

I'd go with option 1. Did you manage to get better pics? I want to see how off the wheel is.


----------



## tlg (May 11, 2011)

hernluis said:


> new update.
> 
> I as able to take the bike to the shop I bought it at for them to take a look. I spoke to the guy who initially sold it to me and he had the hardest time seeing what the problem was. Totally denied any issue with the bike. Looked at it and was like "yep its the wheel, I can tell totally by looking at it that its not the frame" took the wheel off which was perfectly dished and said it was a little off. He "redished" it and the problem was worse. Completely denied any issue. By this time we were arguing and he was throwing his arms up and was getting really upset. I practically made him take photos and call cannondale. He even said "we are not going to warranty this". He was a total d bag. Every other supersix in the store has perfectly centered rear wheels. he would not even look at another bike.


Wow what a d!ck. I can't fathom why he'd care to fight so hard. The new frame is paid for by Cannondale and the customer pays to swap components. Yet he'd spend the time to redish a wheel.




> one week later cannondale wants to warranty the frame!!! Eat you words crappy mechanix!!!


Told you that's what would happen once Cannondale got involved. I would contact Cannondale and explain how terrible the LBS treated you. And I would look for a new LBS.



> I initially bought a 2014 supersix evo racing edition, ultegra
> option 1: replace with a new whole bike 2015 model in red ultegra (does not exist on website)
> option 2: supersix evo frame, team replica color. Year not known and i would pay to switch components over. honesty I would switch components over myself.
> 
> what do I do?


That's a tough one. Not sure which I'd choose. I'd really want to know what year frame option 2 was. 
I don't think they'll let you swap the components, nor would you want to as then you'd potentially be to blame for future warranty issues.


----------



## ColaJacket (Apr 13, 2015)

hernluis said:


> new update.
> 
> I as able to take the bike to the shop I bought it at for them to take a look. I spoke to the guy who initially sold it to me and he had the hardest time seeing what the problem was. Totally denied any issue with the bike. Looked at it and was like "yep its the wheel, I can tell totally by looking at it that its not the frame" took the wheel off which was perfectly dished and said it was a little off. He "redished" it and the problem was worse. Completely denied any issue. By this time we were arguing and he was throwing his arms up and was getting really upset. I practically made him take photos and call cannondale. He even said "we are not going to warranty this". He was a total d bag. Every other supersix in the store has perfectly centered rear wheels. he would not even look at another bike. one week later cannondale wants to warranty the frame!!! Eat you words crappy mechanix!!!
> 
> ...


Your problem was arguing with an idiot. After giving him a chance to fix your problem, and he doesn't want to do it, you ask to see his manager. If he is the manager, you ask to see the owner. If he is the owner, you find a new LBS.

GH


----------



## 92gli (Aug 27, 2009)

Cannondale probably isn't going to let you pick up the frame and take it home. Not to mention, what if you get into the process of building it and find the same issue? 

I'd go with the new complete bike. Then if it's not right when you go to pick it up there won't be any blame placed on you.


----------



## ph0enix (Aug 12, 2009)

If the replacement frame is a HiMod and brand new, I would go with that option and swap out the components.


----------



## deviousalex (Aug 18, 2010)

ph0enix said:


> If the replacement frame is a HiMod and brand new, I would go with that option and swap out the components.


I don't get it. Why swap out components for something that is exactly the same? Seems like extra work.


----------



## Sundog (Sep 25, 2013)

I had the exact same issue - and discovered it the same way as the OP (going from 23mm tire to 25mm tire) - on an Orbea Onix frame last year. Couple of calls and emails to Orbea USA - and they told me that Orbea (Spain) authorized them to replace my Onix with an Orca B.

I was shocked that they didn't make me go through a dealer.


----------



## Joe N (Dec 11, 2018)

Happy trails and Happy Holidays [/QUOTE]


----------



## Joe N (Dec 11, 2018)

i will give them more time


----------



## Joe N (Dec 11, 2018)

i will wait and see


----------



## Joe N (Dec 11, 2018)

I feel ur pain , goin thru the same bs


----------



## cxwrench (Nov 9, 2004)

Joe N said:


> Contact me to get on a Class Action Suit against Cannondale and there Faulty Carbon Evo pre- 2016 frames.


Brand new member, 4 posts in a 3.5 yr old thread and zero evidence of your claim. You're gonna be popular here, but not for the reasons you want to be popular.


----------



## Joe N (Dec 11, 2018)

Not looking to win a popularity contest . I am in the middle of the claim ,and will keep that claim # private . This is a defect ,and should be warrantied ,what does that have to do with popular ?


----------



## cxwrench (Nov 9, 2004)

Joe N said:


> Not looking to win a popularity contest . I am in the middle of the claim ,and will keep that claim # private . This is a defect ,and should be warrantied ,what does that have to do with popular ?


Then post once stating what you're doing and be done w/ it.


----------



## Joe N (Dec 11, 2018)

I will post as many times as i like and what i feel needs to be posted . Thanks for your concern.


cxwrench said:


> Then post once stating what you're doing and be done w/ it.


----------



## tlg (May 11, 2011)

Joe N said:


> I will post as many times as i like and what i feel needs to be posted . Thanks for your concern.


Spamming will get you banned. Don't do it.


----------



## cxwrench (Nov 9, 2004)

Joe N said:


> I will post as many times as i like and what i feel needs to be posted . Thanks for your concern.


Normally I don't report this kind of thing but seeing as you probably joined w/ the sole intent of spamming I'm gonna do it.


----------



## Joe N (Dec 11, 2018)

your a funny guy


----------



## cxwrench (Nov 9, 2004)

Joe N said:


> your a funny guy


*You're*

Smart too.


----------



## Lombard (May 8, 2014)

Joe N said:


> Not looking to win a popularity contest . I am in the middle of the claim ,and will keep that claim # private . This is a defect ,and should be warrantied ,what does that have to do with popular ?


Before you get your panties in a wad, you should read through the entire thread. You will see that Cannondale is good about warranty claims. They want to keep customers. If your shop gives you a hard time, go to a different shop.

Why the 'tude?


----------



## cxwrench (Nov 9, 2004)

Lombard said:


> Before you get your panties in a wad, you should read through the entire thread. You will see that Cannondale is good about warranty claims. They want to keep customers. If your shop gives you a hard time, go to a different shop.
> 
> Why the 'tude?


I get the feeling he may be on a vacation for a bit.


----------



## QuiQuaeQuod (Jan 24, 2003)

cxwrench said:


> Normally I don't report this kind of thing but seeing as you probably joined w/ the sole intent of spamming I'm gonna do it.


PM Coolhand if you want a response in a timely manner. The bad post button sends an e-mail, and most don't use their main e-mail for that purpose.


----------



## cxwrench (Nov 9, 2004)

QuiQuaeQuod said:


> PM Coolhand if you want a response in a timely manner. The bad post button sends an e-mail, and most don't use their main e-mail for that purpose.


Joe has been gone for 5 days, I think in this case a mod took care of him. Or he just gave up. The PM is probably the best solution, I agree.


----------



## Lombard (May 8, 2014)

cxwrench said:


> Joe has been gone for 5 days, I think in this case a mod took care of him. Or he just gave up. The PM is probably the best solution, I agree.


I don't see "banned" under his name, so I'm guessing Joe moved on.

PM idea noted. :thumbsup:


----------

