# Alberto Contador's request: Sound reasonable to me.



## T-shirt (Aug 15, 2004)

I thought Contador's quote in this article summed things up pretty well.

"I need a team with guarantees - that is the most important thing," he said. "I missed the Tour de France in 2008, and I don't want that to repeat that again. I also need to know who will be running the team; there are many factors." 

With four Grand Tour wins, his support structure doesn't seem to have slowed him down much, but I feel for the guy. Alberto, the right team for you is out there some where.


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## Guest (Sep 20, 2009)

I'm not a big fan of some of what he's done lately but no one should be trapped at Astana, except for maybe Vino.


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## FondriestFan (May 19, 2005)

kytyree said:


> I'm not a big fan of some of what he's done lately but no one should be trapped at Astana, except for maybe Vino.


What exactly has he done lately that's irked you? Because the only thing that I've seen him do is win the Tour de France and keep his composure while some over-the-hill a-hole yapped at him on Twitter.

So, seriously, what's your beef with Contador?


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## ClassicSteel71 (Mar 5, 2009)

FondriestFan said:


> What exactly has he done lately that's irked you? Because the only thing that I've seen him do is win the Tour de France and keep his composure while some *over-the-hill a-hole* yapped at him on Twitter.
> 
> So, seriously, what's your beef with Contador?


How can you be over the hill and stand on the podium at the TdF???


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## FondriestFan (May 19, 2005)

ClassicSteel71 said:


> How can you be over the hill and stand on the podium at the TdF???


Is that a serious question? Because, I think you know the answer to that one.

This is in no way meant as an affront to the obvious talent Armstrong has, but if we're at the point of denying the obvious, then why bother asking that question?

In any case, let's focus on Contador on this thread.


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## ClassicSteel71 (Mar 5, 2009)

FondriestFan said:


> Is that a serious question? Because, I think you know the answer to that one.
> 
> This is in no way meant as an affront to the obvious talent Armstrong has, but if we're at the point of denying the obvious, then why bother asking that question?
> 
> In any case, let's focus on Contador on this thread.


I prefer to focus on your usual funny statements.:thumbsup: I do believe you dragged LA into this thread. As usual..


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## FondriestFan (May 19, 2005)

ClassicSteel71 said:


> I prefer to focus on your usual funny statements.:thumbsup: I do believe you dragged LA into this thread. As usual..


I apparently dragged his sycophants as well.


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## godot (Feb 3, 2004)

kytyree said:


> I'm not a big fan of some of what he's done lately but no one should be trapped at Astana, except for maybe Vino.


I'm with FF on this. What exactly has AC done lately to upset you?


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## Kevin_in_SB (Mar 7, 2009)

He is a baby great rider but a *****.


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## FondriestFan (May 19, 2005)

Kevin_in_SB said:


> He is a baby great rider but a *****.


Why? That's the question here, Kevin. I'm starting to see a pattern of obvious Lance fans coming here and taking shots at Contador and vanishing when called to defend their opinions.

Which, of course, is as funny as it is expected.


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## stevesbike (Jun 3, 2002)

back on subject, with Astana likely to lose their protour status, next year's funding still in question, no management structure I'd be shocked if he won't be able to get out of his contract. It's in the interest of everyone involved in cycling to see him on a good team at the Tour - everyone knows the Contador-Armstrong showdown is going to mean big $$ for all involved (just look at all the lance fans who chimed in on this thread...)


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## Alaska Mike (Sep 28, 2008)

The longer this drags out, the longer it hurts AC's chances for a good team for the Tour. ASO won't allow Vino back to the Tour, or any team related to him. They proved as much in 2008. The Astana "organization" has made it quite clear that they intend for AC to be racing for them in 2010. That either means a lengthy/expensive/distracting court case or an expensive buyout to fund the team next year. Most teams have allocated the majority of their personnel budgets already, making even fewer capable of stepping up with the kind of money AC is willing to settle for. Despite the claims of AC's strength, he still needs a strong team to win the Tour. That means a team that can not only finish, but pull the peleton and protect him from attacks. No man is an island.

If he pulls it off, despite the obstacles, my hat's off to him. However, I'm looking for next year to be SaxoBank's time in the sun.


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## DZfan14 (Jul 6, 2009)

F Contador. He doesn't even Twitter or heighten my awareness of cancer.


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## Kevin_in_SB (Mar 7, 2009)

FondriestFan said:


> Why? That's the question here, Kevin. I'm starting to see a pattern of obvious Lance fans coming here and taking shots at Contador and vanishing when called to defend their opinions.
> 
> Which, of course, is as funny as it is expected.



I just like to stir the pot. I think he is a great rider however I don't like how he handled dealing with Lance. Even if you don't like Lance you must respect what a great rider he has been as well as what he has done for the sport. Never mind that he should not have even beaten cancer.


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## Kevin_in_SB (Mar 7, 2009)

DZfan14 said:


> F Contador. He doesn't even Twitter or heighten my awareness of cancer.


He Twitters all the time.


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## DZfan14 (Jul 6, 2009)

Kevin_in_SB said:


> He Twitters all the time.


Does he have a sarcasm detector too?


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## Swish (Jul 31, 2004)

nah, he brings pistols instead!


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## Coolhand (Jul 28, 2002)

*Moderators note.*



FondriestFan said:


> Why? That's the question here, Kevin. I'm starting to see a pattern of obvious Lance fans coming here and taking shots at Contador and vanishing when called to defend their opinions.
> 
> Which, of course, is as funny as it is expected.


Stick to the point, not the usual ad hominum attacks on other posters. Lets see if we can get _one_ of these threads without a lock?


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## Bry03cobra (Oct 31, 2006)

FondriestFan said:


> Is that a serious question? Because, I think you know the answer to that one.
> 
> This is in no way meant as an affront to the obvious talent Armstrong has, but if we're at the point of denying the obvious, then why bother asking that question?
> 
> In any case, let's focus on Contador on this thread.


I don't think either is clean. Once AC is without Johan, he will go down like Heras, Landis and Hamilton. And yes, I'm a LA fan.


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## FondriestFan (May 19, 2005)

Coolhand said:


> Stick to the point, not the usual ad hominum attacks on other posters. Lets see if we can get _one_ of these threads without a lock?


Do you know what an AD HOMINEM attack is? Because if you did, you'd realize I did no such thing.  

Let me help you out here.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ad_hominem


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## Guest (Sep 20, 2009)

FondriestFan said:


> Why? That's the question here, Kevin. I'm starting to see a pattern of obvious Lance fans coming here and taking shots at Contador and vanishing when called to defend their opinions.
> 
> Which, of course, is as funny as it is expected.



If by vanishing you mean going to bed at night rather than staying up to respond to your rants.

Hey, as I stated I hope he gets out of Astana. And I don't see where I said I support either he or Lance, in fact I think everyone involved handled that situation poorly.

But I do think Contador, no matter how great his talent, has been a pri madonna lately. FF for someone who is quick to call out the Lance Fanboys the only Fanboy ranting I see here is yours.


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## jupiterrn (Sep 22, 2006)

Which team is still out there that has almost a guaranteed slot to the tour that does not really have a star and support that could afford to get AC out of his Astana contract? I can't think of any off the top of my head.


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## Guest (Sep 20, 2009)

jupiterrn said:


> Which team is still out there that has almost a guaranteed slot to the tour that does not really have a star and support that could afford to get AC out of his Astana contract? I can't think of any off the top of my head.



Depending on how much of what we read is true, it sounds to me like Garmin would pick up Bert if they could, and would help fund that while making room for him by selling Wiggins to Sky for a few million pounds sterling. There are others that I think could drum up the cash if they had the opportunity to sign him. I don't think I would include Valverde's team on my list if I was him, too much potential still for Puerto backlash that could impact the team and its invites, longshot maybe but not a chance I would take.


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## FondriestFan (May 19, 2005)

kytyree said:


> If by vanishing you mean going to bed at night rather than staying up to respond to your rants.
> 
> Hey, as I stated I hope he gets out of Astana. And I don't see where I said I support either he or Lance, in fact I think everyone involved handled that situation poorly.
> 
> But I do think Contador, no matter how great his talent, has been a pri madonna lately. FF for someone who is quick to call out the Lance Fanboys the only Fanboy ranting I see here is yours.


The term is "prima donna". All I was asking you to do is to explain your comments about Contador. Personally, I thought he handled the situation with maturity and aplomb. He left the Twittering to Lance. So far, I haven't seen people cite any concrete examples of where they thought Contador acted poorly.

And I didn't use the term Lance fanboy on this thread. You're the only person using it.


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## Coolhand (Jul 28, 2002)

FondriestFan said:


> Do you know what an AD HOMINEM attack is? Because if you did, you'd realize I did no such thing.
> 
> Let me help you out here.
> 
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ad_hominem


Let me help you remember:



> I apparently dragged his sycophants as well.


In other words, just stay on point. If you can't, I can help you.


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## muscleendurance (Jan 11, 2009)

I think Liquigas is his best bet: they're well established, sure of an invite, a strong team with great GC climbers (Basso et all), maybe only caveat is funding to snare him?


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## mpk1996 (May 11, 2007)

I hope he does not goto Garmin. I like that team and I lost a lot of respect for AC during this years tour. He proved to NOT be a team player. There was no need for the crap he pulled, other than to be self serving. He could of still won and if he was smart, maybe get his team the entire podium. F*** him. Lets see how he does next year. It should be good fun to watch. I can't wait to hear what the rest of the guys have to say when they are not on the same team any more


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## FondriestFan (May 19, 2005)

Coolhand said:


> Let me help you remember:
> 
> 
> 
> In other words, just stay on point. If you can't, I can help you.


You're hilarious when you get on your little self-important power-trips.  

Do you know what sycophant means? One context refers to someone who brings a lot of accusations without proof. WHICH WAS THE ENTIRE POINT OF MY COMMENT. I asked why several people complained about Contador's behavior and nobody could say why. Hence the term sycophant.

But anyway, back on point. Let's just talk about Contador, ok?


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## godot (Feb 3, 2004)

jupiterrn said:


> Which team is still out there that has almost a guaranteed slot to the tour that does not really have a star and support that could afford to get AC out of his Astana contract? I can't think of any off the top of my head.


Radio Shack? or is it "The Shack"


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## godot (Feb 3, 2004)

stevesbike said:


> It's in the interest of everyone involved in cycling to see him on a good team at the Tour - everyone knows the Contador-Armstrong showdown is going to mean big $$ for all involved


I actually agree with this conspiracy theory. 
Cyclingnews is reporting that Vino wants to be team manager and the UCI is a bit cool that that plan
http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/astana-faces-long-process-to-keep-protour-licence

I wouldn't be at all surprised to see the UCI deny or pull Astana's license in an effort to free AC.


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## FondriestFan (May 19, 2005)

mpk1996 said:


> I hope he does not goto Garmin. I like that team and I lost a lot of respect for AC during this years tour. He proved to NOT be a team player. There was no need for the crap he pulled, other than to be self serving. He could of still won and if he was smart, maybe get his team the entire podium. F*** him. Lets see how he does next year. It should be good fun to watch. I can't wait to hear what the rest of the guys have to say when they are not on the same team any more


Yep, all that crap like attacking his teammates on Twitter. Oops, that was Lance.

What about that time when he put his teammates on the front while leaving his team leader behind. Wait, no that was Lance again.

Oh, yeah, that time when he sent the team cars to pick up his family and left the yellow jersey at the hotel without a ride. Nope, that was Lance AGAIN.

Unfortunately for this horrendous post, Zubeldia directly refutes it. As he said, Contador was a strong team player and thanked his teammates every night for their work.

Once again, lots of accusations against Contador with ZERO support. Pretty much par for the course.

What Contador needs is a team like Caisse d'Epargne. They can control a race and give him all the support he needs in the mountains.


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## ClassicSteel71 (Mar 5, 2009)

FondriestFan said:


> Once again, lots of accusations against Contador with ZERO support. Pretty much par for the course.
> 
> What Contador needs is a team like Caisse d'Epargne. *They can control a race and give him all the support he needs in the mountains.*


They can "control a race" when everyone else's B team shows up. Please don't use this joke race with this joke field to prove any points in GC racing.


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## FondriestFan (May 19, 2005)

ClassicSteel71 said:


> They can "control a race" when everyone else's B team shows up. Please don't use this joke race with this joke field to prove any points in GC racing.


Well, you do have a point at this race, but remember CdE didn't bring LL Sanchez or Pereiro. They would be very valuable help for Contador at the Tour.


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## Coolhand (Jul 28, 2002)

*Moderators note.*



FondriestFan said:


> You're hilarious when you get on your little self-important power-trips.
> 
> Do you know what sycophant means? One context refers to someone who brings a lot of accusations without proof. WHICH WAS THE ENTIRE POINT OF MY COMMENT. I asked why several people complained about Contador's behavior and nobody could say why. Hence the term sycophant.
> 
> But anyway, back on point. Let's just talk about Contador, ok?


Actually, you manged to throw an _extra_ insult in there- kudos to you.

Seeing you remain confused:

http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/sycophant



> * Main Entry: sy·co·phant
> * Pronunciation: \-fənt also -ˌfant\
> * Function: noun
> * Etymology: Latin sycophanta slanderer, swindler, from Greek sykophantēs slanderer, from sykon fig + phainein to show — more at fancy
> ...


Seems pretty insulting to me. Discuss Conty all you want. Discuss Lance all you want. Keep going after those whose opinions differ from yours, and appropriate actions will be taken.


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## mpk1996 (May 11, 2007)

well obviously from your aviatar you are a little bias. so, you can go ahead and suckel up to AC all you want. 

Hope he does goto CdE. that will keep him of Garmin.


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## lancezneighbor (May 4, 2002)

Originally Posted by *mpk1996*
_I hope he does not goto Garmin. I like that team and I lost a lot of respect for AC during this years tour. He proved to NOT be a team player. There was no need for the crap he pulled, other than to be self serving. He could of still won and if he was smart, maybe get his team the entire podium. F*** him. Lets see how he does next year. It should be good fun to watch. I can't wait to hear what the rest of the guys have to say when they are not on the same team any more_



FondriestFan said:


> Yep, all that crap like attacking his teammates on Twitter. Oops, that was Lance.
> 
> What about that time when he put his teammates on the front while leaving his team leader behind. Wait, no that was Lance again.
> 
> ...


I agree with Fondriest Fan, Lance was the non team player. See my username? I am(was? sorta still am on occasion, maybe) A Lance fan, but everything Lance did this year was for Lance and only Lance. Alberto did nothing wrong in the tour against the team. Was Alberto supposed to be a team player and just let Lance win? What kind of team is that? The tweetewr posts by Lance smacked of a 1st grader calling somebody out on his OWN faults.


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## FondriestFan (May 19, 2005)

Coolhand said:


> Actually, you manged to throw an _extra_ insult in there- kudos to you.
> 
> Seeing you remain confused:
> 
> ...


Look, I'm glad you know how to use a dictionary. But the word itself is Greek and has a different meaning than the one ascribed to it in the 16th century English translation. If ClassicSteel took it as an insult, my apologies to him/her.

Look, if I'm confusing you, I promise to stop using Latin or Greek words, as long as you promise to stop butchering them,

Now, that's my last response on this particular topic so feel free to have the last word. I'd much rather talk about Contador and his chances at trashing your little Texan hero next summer.


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## DZfan14 (Jul 6, 2009)

If Garmin can sign a couple other spanish climbers then it might work. Garmin is pretty good at the TTT so he should not have to worry about losing too much time to Shacknasty and Saxo Bank.


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## FondriestFan (May 19, 2005)

DZfan14 said:


> If Garmin can sign a couple other spanish climbers then it might work. Garmin is pretty good at the TTT so he should not have to worry about losing too much time to Shacknasty and Saxo Bank.


Who would they sign? I think most of them are under contract already. I think he's clearly focusing on CdE as his first choice, which is natural. It's a perfect fit. I'd love to see Garmin stick with Wiggins and VdV as their top contenders. 

I don't think Astana gets an invite without Contador, which is why they're enforcing the contract. I imagine they will enforce Zubeldia's as well.

I think Astana with Vino and maybe Kash will ride the Giro next year. If all works out well, Contador will be on CdE. I do wish Zubeldia would go with Contador as well.


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## Undecided (Apr 2, 2007)

FondriestFan said:


> So far, I haven't seen people cite any concrete examples of where they thought Contador acted poorly.


Without claiming to know what the "plan" was within Astana or how clearly it was articulated to Contador, if Armstrong's version of what happened on the stage into Andorra was correct (or fair, if that's a better term), then Contador's attack at the end of that stage is one example. But in terms of off-the-bike behavior, I can't really think of anything all that bad.


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## FondriestFan (May 19, 2005)

Undecided said:


> Without claiming to know what the "plan" was within Astana or how clearly it was articulated to Contador, if Armstrong's version of what happened on the stage into Andorra was correct (or fair, if that's a better term), then Contador's attack at the end of that stage is one example. But in terms of off-the-bike behavior, I can't really think of anything all that bad.


Ok, fair enough. But Contador absolutely had to attack on the Andorra stage. There were 3 mountaintop finishes in the Tour, and he's a climbing specialist. It was his chance to take time on all his rivals. Why would he ride wheels? He knew at that point that Lance's plan was to take the yellow jersey early in the race and thereby forcing Contador to work for him. Contador knew that Bruyneel is Lance's man. Everyone knows that. I thought that Contador's move on that stage was absolutely necessary if he wanted to stamp his authority on the race.


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## Coolhand (Jul 28, 2002)

FondriestFan said:


> Look, I'm glad you know how to use a dictionary. But the word itself is Greek and has a different meaning than the one ascribed to it in the 16th century English translation. If ClassicSteel took it as an insult, my apologies to him/her.
> 
> Look, if I'm confusing you, I promise to stop using Latin or Greek words, as long as you promise to stop butchering them,
> 
> Now, that's my last response on this particular topic so feel free to have the last word. I'd much rather talk about Contador and his chances at trashing your little Texan hero next summer.


Webster vs you- I will take Webster.

If by butchering you mean the spelling- then um, er, I got nothing.

Jens Voigt isn't American, nevermind Texan. Let me help you with _that_ too: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jens_Voigt

My favorite section:



> For the Giro d'Italia, Voigt rode in support of Basso. Following Team CSC's team time trial win on stage 5, Voigt found himself second, trailing race leader Serhiy Honchar by six seconds. During the first mountains, Voigt helped Basso take the overall lead, while he slid down the board and finished 37th. On mountainous stage 19, Voigt and Julich were in a 20-man break, but as Team CSC was leading the peloton to defend Basso's first place, Voigt and Julich did not work. Up the last climb, Voigt was alone with Spanish rider Juan Manuel Gárate, *but as Voigt did not think he had done enough to deserve the victory, he let Garate take the win*.[7]


Bold added by me.


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## gegarrenton (Jul 10, 2009)

FondriestFan said:


> Why? That's the question here, Kevin. I'm starting to see a pattern of obvious Lance fans coming here and taking shots at Contador and vanishing when called to defend their opinions.
> 
> Which, of course, is as funny as it is expected.


Jeebus H Christ dude, every time some one says they don't like Contador, you assign them "Lance Fan" status. I deplore Lance Armstrong and have for years. Contador is still a whiney little ***** with a constant state of entitlement feelings. To say that he handled the situation with 'aplomb' is the silliest thing I have heard since John Cleese eulogized Graham Chapman.


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## spoonhead (Apr 6, 2009)

As a sports fan, if he signed a contract, then if Astana wants him to ride in the Oscar Myer wiener mobile, then he does it.
I am tired with athletes not honouring the contracts they agree to. If he doesn’t have an agreement that he can leave the team if they don’t make the TDF then he doesn’t have a leg to stand on. If he wanted a team that was guaranteed to qualify for the TDF then he should have made that his priority, not the money.
It’s just like the NFL, players wanting out of contracts a year after signing for millions of dollars because they know they will not win a Superbowl with the crummy team they signed with.

Does that make him a sycophant? I am not sure but it makes him a spoonhead in my books.


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## Coolhand (Jul 28, 2002)

Clearly I think Contador would be better off at Garmin or Caisse. If the Tour is going to have a TTT, than Garmin is the better choice. In any event, Astana is the worse possible place for him due to the impending Vino disaster (its a safe bet Astana gets no invites to _any_ ASO run event next year, after Vino's last TdF and his inflammatory comments about ASO). And given his history of attacking his team leaders for his own personal goals, in the races he does enter Vino will be riding for himself- no matter what he says.

Unfortunately, both Wiggins and Contador are most likely going to finish out their contracts before they can ride elsewhere. I wonder if CVV will jump to another squad like BMC seeing Garmin management seems to prefer other riders?


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## Guest (Sep 21, 2009)

lancezneighbor said:


> Originally Posted by *mpk1996*
> _I hope he does not goto Garmin. I like that team and I lost a lot of respect for AC during this years tour. He proved to NOT be a team player. There was no need for the crap he pulled, other than to be self serving. He could of still won and if he was smart, maybe get his team the entire podium. F*** him. Lets see how he does next year. It should be good fun to watch. I can't wait to hear what the rest of the guys have to say when they are not on the same team any more_
> 
> 
> ...


How about following instructions for the stage. How about sticking with the team plans for the stage instead of going out on your own without your team. Non of this involves lance. It was the team's manager direction that was ignored by Alberto.
If the teams plan were to let any member on the team win then yes, you are suppose to support the team and help the teams chosen member win. Otherwise if you just do your own thing regardless if it's the teams goal/plan, then you are not a team player and one would need to ride the tour as an individual and regardless of whatever team Alberto signs on, he will always have a problem if he continues to be a non-team player and only ride for himself. 

You Contador "saddle sniffers" will never understand this.....


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## Maximus_XXIV (Nov 10, 2008)

If Contador had followed team plans, the Schlecks would be living in yellow right now. JBs plan was a LA win with AC in a support role. 

No way does Astana finish 1,2,3 and that plan was concocted so AC would not put too much time into LA as he tried to race himself into shape.

How many riders finished on the podium during Lance's 7 wins? How many won stages? Why the change in an incredibly successful game plan? Do you believe everything you are told without comparing it to the surrounding facts?


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## Guest (Sep 21, 2009)

Maximus_XXIV said:


> If Contador had followed team plans, the Schlecks would be living in yellow right now. JBs plan was a LA win with AC in a support role.


As I said, regardless of who was chosen by the team/manager to go for the win, If you 
were told to support, then that is what you do. That is what you are being paid to do.



Maximus_XXIV said:


> No way does Astana finish 1,2,3 and that plan was concocted so AC would not put too much time into LA as he tried to race himself into shape.?


It may could have happened, but the team was so divided after Mr. Alberto decided to go solo that you are right, a 1-2-3 finshed was no longer possible.



Maximus_XXIV said:


> How many riders finished on the podium during Lance's 7 wins? How many won stages? Why the change in an incredibly successful game plan? Do you believe everything you are told without comparing it to the surrounding facts?


Again, Lance's past has absolutely nothing to do with Alberto following *management* instructions. Its all about following instructions at that time which is the most important *"fact" *of them all that was not done by Alberto.


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## MG537 (Jul 25, 2006)

*Being the devil's advocate*



Coolhand said:


> Webster vs you- I will take Webster.
> 
> If by butchering you mean the spelling- then um, er, I got nothing.
> 
> ...


Are you comparing Voigt's place in the 2006 Giro for CSC to Contador's place in the 2009 TdF Astana team? Not exactly the same thing.


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## Maximus_XXIV (Nov 10, 2008)

slyjackson said:


> As I said, regardless of who was chosen by the team/manager to go for the win, If you
> were told to support, then that is what you do. That is what you are being paid to do.
> 
> 
> ...


This is the same management team that told him that he was team leader and would have 100% support for a tour win.

Glad to know you would give away millions in endorsements and a ton of prestige to people that are lying to you and backstabbing you in a very public way. Next time I need someone on my work team, you have a job!!!


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## Undecided (Apr 2, 2007)

FondriestFan said:


> Ok, fair enough. But Contador absolutely had to attack on the Andorra stage. There were 3 mountaintop finishes in the Tour, and he's a climbing specialist. It was his chance to take time on all his rivals. Why would he ride wheels? He knew at that point that Lance's plan was to take the yellow jersey early in the race and thereby forcing Contador to work for him. Contador knew that Bruyneel is Lance's man. Everyone knows that. I thought that Contador's move on that stage was absolutely necessary if he wanted to stamp his authority on the race.


Yes, it is often the case that bad behavior is motivated by selfishness or self-interest, whether in politics, traffic or other facets of life. Again, I don't claim to have been a fly on the wall of the team bus, but if the DS decides to pursue some plan on the grounds that it gives the team the best chance of wining, a rider who intentionally does otherwise to improve his individual chance of winning may be perceived as having acted poorly.


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## Maximus_XXIV (Nov 10, 2008)

I am not sure the DS had plans that were aligned with the owners of the team. AC was their best shot at a win hands down before the tour, during the tour and in retrospect. The DS was playing to his own self interest by not allowing AC to consolidate a win. I think there were a lot of parties that had a lot of self interest going on. Ultimately, it is the fault of the DS for allowing the garbage to happen through the entire tour.

JB failed to lead his team as a unit. He encouraged a divide in the team and then sat back and moaned about the damage that ensued.


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## JSR (Feb 27, 2006)

Coolhand said:


> Unfortunately, both Wiggins and Contador are most likely going to finish out their contracts before they can ride elsewhere. I wonder if CVV will jump to another squad like BMC seeing Garmin management seems to prefer other riders?


You may be right aobut Wiggins and Contador, but I am reading the tea leaves a bit differently.

I think Wiggins wants to be on Sky in a big way. I think JV wants Contador in a big way. I think Astana's PT license renewal is on the ropes, providing Contador with an arguable case for contract violation (to be argued at CAS). If these assumptions are valid then Astana would be wise to cut a deal with JV.

You idea about CVV is interesting. If the three-way Astana/Garmin/Sky deal makes sense, then so does the fourth move of CVV elswewhere. Maybe to the Shack? LA doesn't have an heir apparent/super domestique yet. A move like that could free up some salary space on Garmin for Contador, who has to be a 4M euro rider at this point.

All of this presumes that Cd'E fail to get Contador. All things being equal, I think Contador would want to be among as many Spaniards as possilbe, but that doesn't seem to be more important to him than it is to a big-time soccer pro. If Beckham can play in Spain or Italy, then Contador can ride for a "foreign" team. Cd'E don't really have a track record of big signings (correct me if I'm wrong here), and seem to be stretching the budget at this point.

Logic in support of Astana's license revocation:

UCI does not want to issue licenses to 20 PT teams, The World Calendar agreement with ASO basically guarantees that something less than 20 PT teams get invitations to ASO events (I'm not sure exactly what that number is - 17 or so.) Having PT teams left out of big races is emabarassing to the UCI and difficult to explain to sponsors. Astana and possibly one of the new applicants will be "relegated".
Astana management to be found to have insufficient "gravitas" for the job at hand. JB's departure leaves a vacuum in this regard. Manolo Saiz is available, but he won't solve this problem. Neither will Vino the player/coach. Ekimov might have been a workable choice, but he's going the The Shack.
This year's funding problems at Astana provide grist for the mill.
UCI holds a grudge against Vino and the Kazakh federation for the blatantly lenient suspension of Vino. Revocation of the license is the cycling equivalent of Moe slapping Curly and Larry both with one swing. Nyuk, nyuk, nyuk.


----------



## Guest (Sep 21, 2009)

Maximus_XXIV said:


> I am not sure the DS had plans that were aligned with the owners of the team. AC was their best shot at a win hands down before the tour, during the tour and in retrospect. The DS was playing to his own self interest by not allowing AC to consolidate a win. I think there were a lot of parties that had a lot of self interest going on. Ultimately, it is the fault of the DS for allowing the garbage to happen through the entire tour.
> 
> JB failed to lead his team as a unit. He encouraged a divide in the team and then sat back and moaned about the damage that ensued.


I agree with you max, alberto was not the only one who did not do what was required. My post to others especially to the " Contador Saddle Sniffers" was that Alberto was not the "Innocent Angel" on the team and got the short end of the stick. Everyone on the Astana team did their share of dirt including alberto.


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## Coolhand (Jul 28, 2002)

MG537 said:


> Are you comparing Voigt's place in the 2006 Giro for CSC to Contador's place in the 2009 TdF Astana team? Not exactly the same thing.


Not at all, was another point I was correcting. Not sure how you got that. Plus every time someone posts that I think of the pinball machine gag from The Simpsons. Which is good I guess. . .


----------



## Coolhand (Jul 28, 2002)

*Moderators Note*



slyjackson said:


> You Contador "saddle sniffers" will never understand this.....


As noted elsewhere in the thread, please keep the posts out of the insulting the other posters area.


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## Coolhand (Jul 28, 2002)

JSR said:


> You may be right aobut Wiggins and Contador, but I am reading the tea leaves a bit differently.
> 
> I think Wiggins wants to be on Sky in a big way. I think JV wants Contador in a big way. I think Astana's PT license renewal is on the ropes, providing Contador with an arguable case for contract violation (to be argued at CAS). If these assumptions are valid then Astana would be wise to cut a deal with JV.
> 
> ...


Good post- the only thing I can think to add is if this gets tied up in litigation it may take a long time to resolve, and by then the extra sponsorship funds to sign Conty may be harder to come by if it is mid-season or later. Astana likely views Conty as their only hope of getting into either the Giro or the Tour and may fight hard to keep him. Still, likely to be an interesting offseason.

Another factor is the rumored new Spanish team for 2011. If any of that were true, he would be the centerpiece and could dictate his teammates (and not have the possible buy-out impact on his salary).


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## stevesbike (Jun 3, 2002)

another x factor is Rasmussen - there are rumors linking him to Astana.


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## FondriestFan (May 19, 2005)

slyjackson said:


> I agree with you max, alberto was not the only one who did not do what was required. My post to others especially to the " Contador Saddle Sniffers" was that Alberto was not the "Innocent Angel" on the team and got the short end of the stick. Everyone on the Astana team did their share of dirt including alberto.


First, Contador was not being paid to support. He was paid to win. He was designated team leader and hence should have the green light. You have your facts wrong. Nobody here is a Contador saddle sniffer. Contador has been treated poorly by the US media and this has resulted in poorly informed or misinformed cycling fans here in the US.

I'm not exactly sure what you're referring to when you say everyone on Astana did their share of dirt. Do you have any shred of evidence to back up your claims?


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## ClassicSteel71 (Mar 5, 2009)

FondriestFan said:


> Contador has been treated poorly by the US media
> 
> *When did the US media start covering him, forget treat him poorly? *
> 
> and this has resulted in poorly informed or misinformed cycling fans here in the US.


You are poof of this statement.:thumbsup:


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## FondriestFan (May 19, 2005)

ClassicSteel71 said:


> You are poof of this statement.:thumbsup:


"poof" indeed.


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## gh1 (Jun 7, 2008)

slyjackson said:


> How about following instructions for the stage. How about sticking with the team plans for the stage instead of going out on your own without your team. Non of this involves lance. It was the team's manager direction that was ignored by Alberto.
> If the teams plan were to let any member on the team win then yes, you are suppose to support the team and help the teams chosen member win. Otherwise if you just do your own thing regardless if it's the teams goal/plan, then you are not a team player and one would need to ride the tour as an individual and regardless of whatever team Alberto signs on, he will always have a problem if he continues to be a non-team player and only ride for himself.
> 
> You Contador "saddle sniffers" will never understand this.....


I gotta say you guys are consistent with your LA support. You do realize that bruyneel who developed the "plan" had probably already inked a deal with Lance for the shack, right? So, whom do you think was really calling the shots at that point? Holding Contador back so that they could keep LA on the podium was lame but good marketing for Trek. If you were a racer in your prime and the worlds best climber, would you wait or would you go on one of the 3 uphill finishes of the tour that you had missed the year before due to politics? The only whiner I saw was LA and what Conty is asking for is no different than what LA had for all his tour wins. Where was the discovery strategy to get 3 on the podium, did LA hold back to help his teammates? No.


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## ClassicSteel71 (Mar 5, 2009)

FondriestFan said:


> "poof" indeed.


Poof or proof, it's 100% accurate. Clueless....


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## goloso (Feb 4, 2004)

*but you forgot..*



FondriestFan said:


> Yep, all that crap like attacking his teammates on Twitter. Oops, that was Lance.
> 
> What about that time when he put his teammates on the front while leaving his team leader behind. Wait, no that was Lance again.
> 
> ...


Don't forget the time he took all the team cars to take his entourage to the start line and made his team leader hitch a ride... Oh wait, that wasn't him either...

OK, well how about the times he made sure that a soigneur wasn't sent to the finish with a towel and fluids...Dang! wrong again...

For what its worth, the ProCycling reporters following the Tour described Astana's treatment of 'Berto as "unconscionable."

-G


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## gh1 (Jun 7, 2008)

Talk about people name calling, he asked for proof. Whats the problem? You obviously have access to the internet so back up your statements and do some research.


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## lancezneighbor (May 4, 2002)

slyjackson said:


> How about following instructions for the stage. How about sticking with the team plans for the stage instead of going out on your own without your team. Non of this involves lance. It was the team's manager direction that was ignored by Alberto.
> If the teams plan were to let any member on the team win then yes, _*you are suppose to support the team and help the teams chosen member win. *_Otherwise if you just do your own thing regardless if it's the teams goal/plan, then you are not a team player and one would need to ride the tour as an individual and regardless of whatever team Alberto signs on, he will always have a problem if he continues to be a non-team player and only ride for himself.
> 
> You Contador "saddle sniffers" will never understand this.....


Again check my user name how can I be called a Contador lover? The thing is that Astana kept saying there was no chosen team leader. AC BECAME the team leader by proving his worth. According to everything Astana and LANCE and JB were saying there was no "chosen team member".


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## Sasquatch (Feb 3, 2004)

guys guys, no need to fight aight?

Lance said "The road will decide who leads the team"

Lance tried to make the road decide when he ordered 2 Astana LTs. to pull the break away from the Contador main group. 

Alberto tried to make the road decide when he attacked the selection of climbers to gain more than a handful of seconds. Then he did it again, and again. 

The road has decided my friends. Just look at the top step of the 2009 TdF podium. 

Discussion OVER.


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## FondriestFan (May 19, 2005)

Sasquatch said:


> guys guys, no need to fight aight?
> 
> Lance said "The road will decide who leads the team"
> 
> ...


Yep. Well said.


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## lancezneighbor (May 4, 2002)

Maximus_XXIV said:


> I am not sure the DS had plans that were aligned with the owners of the team. AC was their best shot at a win hands down before the tour, during the tour and in retrospect. The DS was playing to his own self interest by not allowing AC to consolidate a win. I think there were a lot of parties that had a lot of self interest going on. Ultimately, it is the fault of the DS for allowing the garbage to happen through the entire tour.
> 
> JB failed to lead his team as a unit. He encouraged a divide in the team and then sat back and moaned about the damage that ensued.


I concur.


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## lancezneighbor (May 4, 2002)

Sasquatch said:


> guys guys, no need to fight aight?
> 
> Lance said "The road will decide who leads the team"
> 
> ...


*Absolutely.*


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## st3v3 (Jul 25, 2009)

FF, try to stay remotely on topic. And you definitely don't know what sycophant means.


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## weltyed (Feb 6, 2004)

i would be very interested to see how contador would do under garmin, if you know what i mean.

also, some people seem to think conti can win le tour all by himself (which he just about had to do this year). so maybe silence/predictor/lotto would pick him up.


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## Coolhand (Jul 28, 2002)

stevesbike said:


> another x factor is Rasmussen - there are rumors linking him to Astana.


Wow, talk about ensuring no invites to ASO events . . .


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## a_avery007 (Jul 1, 2008)

yeah, no invite; did not AC ride for liberty S before Astana..oops

Ras even was tested 2 weeks before tour and came up clean...
but missed 2 out of season tests when the rules clearly say 3 to be suspended..

want to see him dust AC on the climbs again..lol

And if AC keeps it up, Garmin and or the C team are going to get slapped with tampering charges... he has a contract, just becuase his brother cant read proprely it is not Astana's problem. AC is playing out this whole situation out if public, and according to contracts, yes he actuatually has one, that is not such a good idea...


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## Jesse D Smith (Jun 11, 2005)

*Lance's heir*

"LA doesn't have an heir apparent/super domestique yet."

I think they do. Janez Brajkovič. They taken great care to bring him along slowly since winning the Tour of Georgia in '07. He has the combination of being a great climber and a great time trialist.


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## robdamanii (Feb 13, 2006)

a_avery007 said:


> yeah, no invite; did not AC ride for liberty S before Astana..oops
> 
> Ras even was tested 2 weeks before tour and came up clean...
> but missed 2 out of season tests when the rules clearly say 3 to be suspended..
> ...


Really?

What about Patrick LeFevre coming out today and claiming to be in negotiations with Alberto's manager? Doesn't sound like QS is any less guilty of pursuing him than any other team.


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## JSR (Feb 27, 2006)

Jesse D Smith said:


> "LA doesn't have an heir apparent/super domestique yet."
> 
> I think they do. Janez Brajkovič. They taken great care to bring him along slowly since winning the Tour of Georgia in '07. He has the combination of being a great climber and a great time trialist.


I agree the kid looks good, but I hope The Shack is not going to rest their stage-race hopes entirely on LL, LA, Yani and pack fill! 

They still have about a dozen slots to fill, so it can be presumed that there is some room to move on one or two high-salary riders.

JSR


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## gh1 (Jun 7, 2008)

Sasquatch said:


> guys guys, no need to fight aight?
> 
> Lance said "The road will decide who leads the team"
> 
> ...


That was well said.


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## Jesse D Smith (Jun 11, 2005)

JSR said:


> I agree the kid looks good, but I hope The Shack is not going to rest their stage-race hopes entirely on LL, LA, Yani and pack fill!
> 
> They still have about a dozen slots to fill, so it can be presumed that there is some room to move on one or two high-salary riders.
> 
> JSR


I'm guessing they will. With them, they have their three stage race riders, and need to spend money filling out tour support riders and acquire some classics guys for a well-rounded season. 
Johan seems to do well building a team around a single leader for a stage race. Levi can have another crack at the early season short tours. Yani might be the guy for the Giro. The Giro won't hold priority over the Tour, so they are free to give him the experience and chance to play the roll of team leader in a grand tour, aiming for a podium, without gambling their entire season on it. And the highest priority will be Lance's Tour. Seems like a pretty straightforward plan.

Edit: It seems to Tour of California and the Giro dates conflict, so my analysis is flawed.


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## orangeclymer (Aug 18, 2009)

FondriestFan said:


> First, Contador was not being paid to support. He was paid to win. He was designated team leader and hence should have the green light. You have your facts wrong. Nobody here is a Contador saddle sniffer. Contador has been treated poorly by the US media and this has resulted in poorly informed or misinformed cycling fans here in the US.
> 
> I'm not exactly sure what you're referring to when you say everyone on Astana did their share of dirt. Do you have any shred of evidence to back up your claims?


go take a very loooooooooooooong nap and when you awaken from this nightmare you've concocted the world will be right yet again. :thumbsup:


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## yater (Nov 30, 2006)

Bry03cobra said:


> Once AC is without Johan, he will go down like Heras, Landis and Hamilton.


I can see this happening.


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## ClassicSteel71 (Mar 5, 2009)

Sasquatch said:


> guys guys, no need to fight aight?
> 
> Lance said "The road will decide who leads the team"
> 
> ...


This discussion was about the future of AC and how he wants to be or should be treated by the team he is on now and in the future. Not what happened in the 09 TdF. So how is the discussion over?

Good to see the list of nuts is endless on RBR. Thank God for that..


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## shabbasuraj (May 14, 2005)

conty pwned la in the final tt .... that was the tour.... ( he really crushed everyone) johan was stunned.


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## albert owen (Jul 7, 2008)

Contador in talks with Quick Step. Report in today's London Times.


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## uberalles (Aug 13, 2009)

clear one thing up for me..... who attacked their own team.....? twice.... not a team player

and who cares where he goes? AC doesn't need teammates to win....... he'll stick behind the shack next yr not mater what team he's with .... and then run up the mountain no matter who's leading him out...

i am a lance fan... the only way AC will loose next yrs tdf is if they keep the ttt 

the man is at the top of his game... ras can beat him up the mountain ..oh well... ras won't beat him anywhere else... lance can beat him in the ttt (if they have it) but will lose going up the mountain and in the tt.......

where and how will ac get beat? 

again i am a lance fan... and think he's the greatest of all time...
but AC is the next coming.....regardless of what team he's on..... 

still hope lance wins


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## kiwisimon (Oct 30, 2002)

uberalles said:


> clear one thing up for me..... who attacked their own team.....? twice.... not a team player


Surely the team goal is to put the strongest rider on the top step of the podium? Team goal accomplished! A C is most definitely a team player cause without him the team would be looking at Andy Schleck wearing yellow.
I hope he goes to Quickstep, a team made up of predominantly Euro riders and this would surely set the stage for a Old World Vs New World battle. I just hope L A can defy his age.


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## spade2you (May 12, 2009)

With Valverde leaving his squad, I can't see why AC wouldn't jump at that spot.


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## sgroll (Jul 15, 2009)

*AC is a freak of nature, but come on...*

...his team had a chance to sweep the podium, but he had to make his childish point. 

Also, on those two attacks, AC pulled out his earpiece. Hmmm, I would venture to say that if any one of us blatantly disregarded our bosses' orders in such a way, we would be looking for a job.

AC is the best rider out there and everyone riding knew it. He wasn't in ANY danger of losing the Tour, so why the attack on Kloden? Another thing, how lame is that hat with the finger pistol?! It looks like one of those "killer" flea market finds...;-)


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## grrrah (Jul 22, 2005)

uberalles said:


> clear one thing up for me..... who attacked their own team.....? twice.... not a team player


Pretty sure Lance tried to put time in on Contador early in the race when that gap opened. 

They both tried to attack eachother, wether they want to admit it or find some other half-arsed explanation.


sgroll said:


> ...his team had a chance to sweep the podium, but he had to make his childish point.


In any of lance's seven wins, he would have been waaaaay more into securing his 1st position over trying to get a teamate on the podium. This year, that was just propaganda.


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## uberalles (Aug 13, 2009)

team orders were disregarded..... 
lance was told to ride wiggens ..and he did...
mean while ...ac takes off on kloden...which was a clear attack
the schleck's were going no where....

as far as when lance made time on the roadway.... ac just got caught in a bad position when the pelaton broke.....lance was in the front half and ac the back half.

lance just moved with the split pelaton..... he didn't push it or lead it out to make the pace and get time on AC....AC got caught with his pants down..Crosswinds suck

until AC can truely conduct a team... he won't be great... just being a gc contender doesn't make you a leader....
he rides for himself......he just needs a team to drag him through a ttt, he'll manage the rest on his own...


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## sgroll (Jul 15, 2009)

*I respectfully disagree...*

In any of lance's seven wins, he would have been waaaaay more into securing his 1st position over trying to get a teamate on the podium. This year, that was just propaganda.[/QUOTE]

If Armstrong was clearly in the lead with no real threat to lose, he would have wanted either U.S. Postal or Discovery to have swept. Unfortunately, they were never in that position. Astana HAD that chance. AC could have easily responded to an attack by anyone in the group, so he had no reason to attack...except to prove that he was the alpha dog.


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## ClassicSteel71 (Mar 5, 2009)

uberalles said:


> team orders were disregarded.....
> lance was told to ride wiggens ..and he did...
> mean while ...ac takes off on kloden...which was a clear attack
> the schleck's were going no where....
> ...


Don't discuss what actually happened in the race. It will only confuse people.:thumbsup:


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## goloso (Feb 4, 2004)

*you need a clue*



uberalles said:


> clear one thing up for me..... who attacked their own team.....? twice.... not a team player


Do you even know what attacking your team means? 

There were no teammates up the road. He dropped a domestique that couldn't hang. Since when is that "attacking the team?"

Did your man-crush LA attack the team when he hitched a ride on the Columbia train in the first week? By your definition he did.


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## uberalles (Aug 13, 2009)

consider that ac didn't take off and drag the schlecks with him.... and kloden would have stayed with them...... lance could have bridged ... when he broke wiggens ...or at best not lost the time he had to andy....
stage 17 is where ac attacked...lance was 2.16 a head of andy at the beginning of that stage
andy cross the line 2.18 a head of lance on that... 
if ac would have stayed ..the schlecks would have just riden up on his wheel...
andy only beat lance by 1.13....in the gc 

it is very possible had ac been a team player and not attacked his own team... that astana could have had a 1, 2, 3


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## ClassicSteel71 (Mar 5, 2009)

College said:


> Don't any of you people realize that as a DS, JB owes his past, present, and future to LA?


Another spinner. Welcome to the board. You will fit right in.

You're right, he can't win without LA. 07 was a dream I guess.


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## stevesbike (Jun 3, 2002)

goloso said:


> Do you even know what attacking your team means?
> 
> There were no teammates up the road. He dropped a domestique that couldn't hang. Since when is that "attacking the team?"
> 
> Did your man-crush LA attack the team when he hitched a ride on the Columbia train in the first week? By your definition he did.


If you want to give your 'expert' analysis at least don't call Kloden a 'domestique' - he's been 2nd overall at the Tour twice, medaled in the Olympics, etc. Fact is, Kloden was in a position to podium again - until Contador attacked for no reason. There was nothing to gain by attacking when he did and he almost certainly wouldn't have stayed away until the end considering the long descent to come. His intention was to hurt Astana's team standing with that attack.


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## jptaylorsg (Apr 24, 2003)

stevesbike said:


> If you want to give your 'expert' analysis at least don't call Kloden a 'domestique' - he's been 2nd overall at the Tour twice, medaled in the Olympics, etc. Fact is, Kloden was in a position to podium again - until Contador attacked for no reason. There was nothing to gain by attacking when he did and he almost certainly wouldn't have stayed away until the end considering the long descent to come. His intention was to hurt Astana's team standing with that attack.


I'll grant that the attack was a mistake. Hell, Contador said as much, and his actions indicate it was because he pulled up almost immediately when he saw Kloden couldn't follow.

Please tell us, though, where you obtained your mind-reading powers that have given you knowledge of Contador's devious intentions. I'm especially interested, because I honestly can't imagine what the thought process could be. 

"I'll attack for four seconds, then stand up and try to slow the pace almost immediately. That way I'll drop Kloden and destroy Astana's chances of filling the podium, but it'll look like I was surprised he couldn't go. The upshot is this way we can cancel the hit on Andy Schleck - who Lance and especially Kloden have shown they can't hang with - and nobody has to go to jail."


----------



## SilasCL (Jun 14, 2004)

Hey guys,

We did this thread at least twice in July, and once in August too. Now September is covered, let's not do another in October...

Silas


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## ClassicSteel71 (Mar 5, 2009)

SilasCL said:


> Hey guys,
> 
> We did this thread at least twice in July, and once in August too. Now September is covered, let's not do another in October...
> 
> Silas


Maybe you should have stopped reading these threads after July. Not to mention your useless contribution in this one.


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## SilasCL (Jun 14, 2004)

ClassicSteel71 said:


> Maybe you should have stopped reading these threads after July. Not to mention your useless contribution in this one.


Don't worry, I stopped reading about 80 posts ago.


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## godot (Feb 3, 2004)

SilasCL said:


> Hey guys,
> 
> We did this thread at least twice in July, and once in August too. Now September is covered, let's not do another in October...
> 
> Silas


Can we get one going for Christmas at least? It just wouldn't be the holidays without it.


----------



## AJL (Jul 9, 2009)

We need a popcorn "smiley"!


----------



## goloso (Feb 4, 2004)

*wait a sec...*



stevesbike said:


> If you want to give your 'expert' analysis at least don't call Kloden a 'domestique' - he's been 2nd overall at the Tour twice, medaled in the Olympics, etc. Fact is, Kloden was in a position to podium again - until Contador attacked for no reason. There was nothing to gain by attacking when he did and he almost certainly wouldn't have stayed away until the end considering the long descent to come. His intention was to hurt Astana's team standing with that attack.


So you are saying that Kloden was not riding a support role? I am well aware of his record (and some of his brushes with the law regarding doping) and I assure he knew what he was there for and it wasn't to podium.

You really think that Contador did this to hurt his team? Man, I'm no "expert" but you are paranoid. As I recall, Contador had a chat with Kloden before he attacked and he said he was OK and acknowledged this after the race. 

"Nothing to gain?" 'berto put 21sec into his main rivals the Schlecks, Sastre, CvV, Evans and Menchov. LA and Levi both appearently attacked Kloden as well since he finished 23sec behind them. If Klodi was the key to the hog's master plan you think they would have sat up and given him a wheel...

Dude, you should totally start your own team!


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## Andrea138 (Mar 10, 2008)

Here's a link to LA's response: [email protected]


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## stevesbike (Jun 3, 2002)

goloso said:


> So you are saying that Kloden was not riding a support role? I am well aware of his record (and some of his brushes with the law regarding doping) and I assure he knew what he was there for and it wasn't to podium.
> 
> You really think that Contador did this to hurt his team? Man, I'm no "expert" but you are paranoid. As I recall, Contador had a chat with Kloden before he attacked and he said he was OK and acknowledged this after the race.
> 
> ...


there's a big difference between a domestique and a rider like Kloden or Leipheimer playing a support role. Keeping them high on GC is a good strategic move - and it was in Astana's interests to do so. As far as putting time into anyone, the only person at that point who was any threat to Contador was Andy Schleck - and he did not put any time into him - in fact, he helped him move up in the overall standings. Don't tell me he attacked to put time into Sastre or Evans, who at that point had given up any ambitions for a high finish. 

As far as why Contador attacked Kloden - if you were being played the way Contador apparently was by Bruyneel and the team you might be tempted to screw them on the road too.


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## godot (Feb 3, 2004)

ClassicSteel71 said:


> This discussion was about the future of AC


Then why do you continually post inflammatory/argumentative stances regarding what happened between AC and LA during the 2009 TdF rather that what team AC will be headed to and how 2010 will work out?


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## ClassicSteel71 (Mar 5, 2009)

College said:


> Do you want to argue that point?


You throw out some nonsense that has nothing to do with the thread and ask if I wanna argue the point? Pass.


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## goloso (Feb 4, 2004)

*Awesone jorb Uberalles!*



uberalles said:


> team orders were disregarded.....
> lance was told to ride wiggens ..and he did...
> mean while ...ac takes off on kloden...which was a clear attack
> the schleck's were going no where....
> ...


You almost got me! You had me right up the "wont be great" part. You pushed it a bit too far there. Fantastic troll!

-G


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## stevesbike (Jun 3, 2002)

1. there's over 100 posts in this thread - have you ever seen a thread that does not go off on tangents after a few posts?

2. what happened at the Tour is relevant to Contador's future - a good DS would want to know those details - is Contador controllable, whose agenda would he follow, etc. I think it shows the guy can not only handle incredible pressure but actually excel in the face of it - a lot of riders would have cracked under the pressure he faced internally from Astana. 

3. At this point, it is all speculation about his future anyway. The reality is there's likely a lot of back room dealing going on among all the stakeholders, some secret deals, that the public will never learn about.


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## DZfan14 (Jul 6, 2009)

According to the Lance apologists, and they'll never say it; Contador behaved badly because he didn't let Lance win.

I don't blame Contador one bit for dropping Kloden. Kloden is another guy who was probably working to screw Alberto over. Given that his own team was actively waging psychological warfare on him I don't blame him for attacking his own team. It was sound tactics for Alberto's interests. Alberto was the strongest both mentally and physically.


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## Guest (Sep 24, 2009)

ClassicSteel71 said:


> Don't discuss what actually happened in the race. It will only confuse people.:thumbsup:


and also make the "Contador saddle sniffers" angry.....


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## Coolhand (Jul 28, 2002)

godot said:


> Then why do you continually post inflammatory/argumentative stances regarding what happened between AC and LA during the 2009 TdF rather that what team AC will be headed to and how 2010 will work out?


In fairness, there is _a lot_ of that going around. Just ignore it if it doesn't interest you.

My predictions:
/ 2010 Astana (won't be able to get out of contract, learns why you don't use your brother as your agent the hard way).
// 2011 the new Spanish team built around him. Don't think CdP will have the cash for him and Valverde either. Garmins a player only if they lose Wiggo.


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## ClassicSteel71 (Mar 5, 2009)

godot said:


> Then why do you continually post inflammatory/argumentative stances regarding what happened between AC and LA during the 2009 TdF rather that what team AC will be headed to and how 2010 will work out?


You have obviously not read the thread. I'm not shocked.


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## JSR (Feb 27, 2006)

College said:


> Unless of course, you think a scheming


probably true 



> petty


 in the eye of the beholder 



> also ran


well, he was literaly a "show" finisher, not an also ran



> LA could bring you more publicity


 undoubtedly true. More publicity power than a Hollywood starlet.


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## ClassicSteel71 (Mar 5, 2009)

College said:


> LA has to rely on those attributes because it's abundantly clear that Contador is the stronger rider in every respect.


Work on your reading comp in college. I never said in this or any thread that AC wasn't a stronger (not by nearly as much in your delusional world) rider then the 37 yo LA...


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## Coolhand (Jul 28, 2002)

*Moderators Note*



ClassicSteel71 said:


> Work on your reading comp in college. I never said in this or any thread that AC wasn't a stronger (not by nearly as much in your delusional world) rider then the 37 yo LA...


Tone it down please. Let's keep the posts on topic rather than the perceived shortcomings of the other posters.


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## ClassicSteel71 (Mar 5, 2009)

Coolhand said:


> Tone it down please. Let's keep the posts on topic rather than the perceived shortcomings of the other posters.



Perceived?


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## kef3844 (May 30, 2008)

This is hilarious...you all still friggin going at it. :thumbsup:


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## Coolhand (Jul 28, 2002)

kef3844 said:


> This is hilarious...you all still friggin going at it. :thumbsup:


We were trying for "charming". Oh well . . .


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## stevesbike (Jun 3, 2002)

College said:


> Yes he *was.* He will not *be* one in 2010.
> 
> *If* JB was a cycling purist and wanted to win Grand Tours, and *if* he could make a decision without Armstrong's approval he would no doubt hire Contador for his team.
> 
> The problem is that JB is more interested in lining his pockets and being LA's lackey than winning bike races.


That's a seriously simplistic take on it (it's not like Bruyneel hasn't had any success as a DS). The reality is it's a sponsorship driven sport, times are tough in sponsorship/advertising, and cycling isn't exactly the golden sport of the moment (look at how hard Riis has had to work to keep his team afloat despite being #1 or close to it). Who can blame Bruyneel for going with the biggest name in the sport - in terms of $ the biggest name in the history of the sport by a lot...


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## barhopper (Aug 10, 2009)

FondriestFan said:


> Yep, all that crap like attacking his teammates on Twitter. Oops, that was Lance.
> 
> What about that time when he put his teammates on the front while leaving his team leader behind. Wait, no that was Lance again.
> 
> ...





AC sucked as a team player ... just sayin


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## Mr. Scary (Dec 7, 2005)

FondriestFan said:


> The term is "prima donna". All I was asking you to do is to explain your comments about Contador. Personally, I thought he handled the situation with maturity and aplomb. He left the Twittering to Lance. So far, I haven't seen people cite any concrete examples of where they thought Contador acted poorly.
> 
> And I didn't use the term Lance fanboy on this thread. You're the only person using it.


Wow, get a room with the dude. He is nearly as whiny as Evans except he can't speak English. He openly disobeyed team orders, and dropped his own teammate (Kloden). His cavalier attitude regarding the questions about his VO2 Max was the icing on the cake. Why the secret? He dropped everybody on the major climbs and the question was posed to justify his VAM of 1876 or whatever it was. And that stupid pistol act when he wins a stage, LOL...


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## Mr. Scary (Dec 7, 2005)

College said:


> What are these concerns related to?


They are related to his hiding of something that he doesn't want known, read between the lines.


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## DZfan14 (Jul 6, 2009)

Sasquatch said:


> guys guys, no need to fight aight?
> 
> Lance said "The road will decide who leads the team"
> 
> ...



Great post. The discussion should be over, but evidently there are still some delusional yellow wristbanded teabaggers who think that Lance can still hold a candle to Contador.


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## Coolhand (Jul 28, 2002)

Ekimov said:


> edited original......


Thanks. Here's a LOLCat as a reward.


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## ultimobici (Jul 16, 2005)

Seems Vino is intent on keeping Contador on board the sinking ship Astana. Fingers crossed that the UCI withdraws the ProTour Licence.

http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/contador-to-remain-with-astana-says-vinokourov


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## den bakker (Nov 13, 2004)

ultimobici said:


> Seems Vino is intent on keeping Contador on board the sinking ship Astana. Fingers crossed that the UCI withdraws the ProTour Licence.
> 
> http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/contador-to-remain-with-astana-says-vinokourov


"It is clear that we will aim for Alberto Contador at the Tour," continued Vinokourov. "I will be at his call. He doesn't have to worry."
I'm sure that made Contadors day


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