# M10 vs. c59



## j.knight

Really want one of these. can't afford both (or either for that matter) Any ideas what the difference is in ride or stiffness?


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## Salsa_Lover

no idea, but usually the Monocoque will be stiffer and better for climbing and sprinting.
the lugged one is much better for overall riding, and on traditional even better.

If most of your riding is climbing high gradients or sprinting to a line, then get the M10 otherwise the C59 is the best for everything else.

this is a nice example, but I would prefer it more colorful


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## Gatorback

Well hopefully more knowledgeable folks will correct me if I'm wrong, but...

The M10 is similar to many other bikes out there, built in factory in Taiwan or China. You could get bikes from more than half a dozen companies which are very, very comparable. You just get the Colnago name.

The C59 is hand made in Italy, the only outsourcing being Colnago's purchase of high quality carbon tubes manufactured in Japan by one of the best carbon manufacturers in the business. It is quite simply one of those bikes with attributes that has made Colnago famous. 

I would not knock the M10, I'm sure it is a great bike, but there are many great monocoque bikes out there if that is what you are looking for. However, there are not very many carbon tube lugged bikes hand made in a smaller factory in Italy by a group of folks who dedicate their lives and careers to cycling.

But I'm biased. I ride a C59. There is a reason I chose it, however, and I absolutely love the bike.

Time to go ride...


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## majorbanjo

I live in Germany........just ordered a Master X Light from a shop in the states....I will buy a C59 directly from Colnago since it's only a 6 hour drive from where I live...before I depart Germany.....then I'l be done buying bicycles..........I really hope to meet Earnesto in person while in Italy......


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## Streetking




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## Ride-Fly

majorbanjo said:


> I live in Germany........just ordered a Master X Light from a shop in the states....I will buy a C59 directly from Colnago since it's only a 6 hour drive from where I live...before I depart Germany.....then I'l be done buying bicycles..........I really hope to meet Earnesto in person while in Italy......


Hey majorbanjo! You are lucky guy living in Germany! My wife and I are considering going there for a few years. I'd prefer Italy or France, but then Germany. 

I want a Molteni, Saronni, or the classic white (PR99). I saw that you are getting a PR99! Please post tons of pictures when you get her done. I think that is my all-time favorite Colnago paint scheme. But my Master XL will have to wait until after I get the number one frame on my wishlist- a De Rosa Neo Primato in Faema! 

Ride On!


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## mlin

*EPS vs M10*

Would you build up a new 2010 EPS frame or a 2012 M10 frame?

That is my current dilemma because they are around the same price...


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## carbonLORD

mlin said:


> Would you build up a new 2010 EPS frame or a 2012 M10 frame?
> 
> That is my current dilemma because they are around the same price...


Depends on what you will be doing with it.

Centuries and Fondos get the EPS.

Crits and shorter rides, do the M10.

EPS Made in Italy. External cabling. Lugged construction.

M10 Made in Taiwan. Internal Cables. Monocoque construction.

Originally I wanted a EPS, then a M10 but decided against it in favor of a made in Italy Colnago. The EPS didnt have any internal cabling.

I had a EPQ on order but changed it to a C59.

EPQ didnt have an internal routed top tube and was all round tubes. C59 has master tubing which is all internal routed.

I don't think you will be unhappy in either event but I do think the EPS would be more comfortable and is made in Italy, if that matters to you.


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## Gnarly 928

Gatorback said:


> Well hopefully more knowledgeable folks will correct me if I'm wrong, but...
> 
> The M10 is similar to many other bikes out there, built in factory in Taiwan or China. You could get bikes from more than half a dozen companies which are very, very comparable. You just get the Colnago name.
> 
> I think you're wrong here...I ride an eastern Colnago...CX-1. It's a Colnago and superior to anything else I've ridden... I rode all kinds of other made in the east bikes, very high enders and also a few high end lugged carbon frames from other European-badged builders. The monoque frame from Colnago has Colnago quality and engineering and depth of experience in spades, and it rides and races exceptionally well. It is not a Giant with a Colnago label, it's a modern Colnago made in the Global world, but speced and engineered by Colnago and it's quality comes through.
> 
> 
> I would not knock the M10, I'm sure it is a great bike, but there are many great monocoque bikes out there if that is what you are looking for.
> 
> Wrong again....You should ride one of the "other" Colnagos before you lump them in with all the bikes built in the east. Yes, there are plenty of 'adequate' bikes available made in the East. There are some that are even very good...but the Colnago eastern bikes are outstanding, just like the Italian ones. And they are designed and built, from the ground up, making Carbon fiber's engineering strengths come out to the best performance levels. Copying steel's shapes and following the build practices used to weld that material together in carbon....that seems a bit silly, seems to leave a lot...'on the table'... Like building a stealth fighter from carbon fiber 'replica' aluminum sheets and riveting it together...
> 
> Anyway, all Colnagos seem superior to most others. In my humble opinion.


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## AnthonyL88

Gatorback said:


> Well hopefully more knowledgeable folks will correct me if I'm wrong, but...
> 
> The M10 is similar to many other bikes out there, built in factory in Taiwan or China. You could get bikes from more than half a dozen companies which are very, very comparable. You just get the Colnago name.
> 
> The C59 is hand made in Italy, the only outsourcing being Colnago's purchase of high quality carbon tubes manufactured in Japan by one of the best carbon manufacturers in the business. It is quite simply one of those bikes with attributes that has made Colnago famous.
> 
> I would not knock the M10, I'm sure it is a great bike, but there are many great monocoque bikes out there if that is what you are looking for. However, there are not very many carbon tube lugged bikes hand made in a smaller factory in Italy by a group of folks who dedicate their lives and careers to cycling.
> 
> But I'm biased. I ride a C59. There is a reason I chose it, however, and I absolutely love the bike.
> 
> Time to go ride...


My friend got the Colnago M10 and loves the overall ride. The Colnago M10 is Made in Taiwan, there's nothing wrong with bikes Made in Taiwan. I just wouldn't buy a bike Made in Mainland China.


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## Ride-Fly

Hey Gnarly, always good to hear your opinion on the eastern Colnagos. I respect your opinion because of your racing experience and also your saddle time on lots of other high-end bikes. What are your impressions between lugged and monocoque? I think I remember that you had a Time or Look? 

Anyways, I'm a huge colnago fan. Wouldn't mind a CX-1 or an M10!!!


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## Gnarly 928

Ride-Fly said:


> Hey Gnarly, always good to hear your opinion on the eastern Colnagos. I respect your opinion because of your racing experience and also your saddle time on lots of other high-end bikes. What are your impressions between lugged and monocoque? I think I remember that you had a Time or Look?
> 
> Anyways, I'm a huge colnago fan. Wouldn't mind a CX-1 or an M10!!!


 I had a Look and a Time. Scott and Orbea. Ridleys.. Trek and C-dale. Steel and Ti...more that I don't recall right now. I was entertaining myself buying frames and swapping on my components and riding them for a bit till the next one appealed to me. Until I settled pretty much on the CX-1 that our team was riding a few years back....I pretty much tried all the bikes, and the CX-1 is my keeper. If I could afford it, I'd like to try an M-10 for a bit sometime.

I dunno, I guess maybe there isn't a huge difference in the performance of a lugged Colnago vs a molded one, though many of the pros seem to think there is. I am certainly not strong or competative enough to be able to say..."Oh ****, this C-59 is not taking all the power I can put into it..." or anything close to that. But I can, or so I imagine, feel very connected to the earth with my molded Colnago, no matter what the situation, the pavement condition, the steepness of the climb or descent, etc etc....so I like it as the best frame I have found....and I kinda stopped looking now, for anything better....

It just makes no sense to me, as someone who's worked with carbon and makes lottsa weight-critical stuff....sailboats, boards, racecar parts, etc....it makes no sense to make a replica of a metal tube and stick it into a replica of a metal frame lug, thereby adding an joint that isn't really needed (and a concentration of the forces involved) and overlapping these metal-duplicate parts to insure the parts don't seperate and that the forces don't break either the replica metal parts or the bonded joint... And then charge a rather large Premium for the bike, this 'old timey" assembly of the many various parts you've copied, in carbon, from the parts you "used to always use" when metal was the best building material available for bikes.

The CX-1, by the way, is actually stuck together with two main parts and I guess it is a 'semi-lug' frame with the lugs for the rear triangle being molded right into the front main monoque structure...


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## AnthonyL88

Gatorback said:


> Well hopefully more knowledgeable folks will correct me if I'm wrong, but...
> 
> The M10 is similar to many other bikes out there, built in factory in Taiwan or China. You could get bikes from more than half a dozen companies which are very, very comparable. You just get the Colnago name.
> 
> The C59 is hand made in Italy, the only outsourcing being Colnago's purchase of high quality carbon tubes manufactured in Japan by one of the best carbon manufacturers in the business. It is quite simply one of those bikes with attributes that has made Colnago famous.
> 
> I would not knock the M10, I'm sure it is a great bike, but there are many great monocoque bikes out there if that is what you are looking for. However, there are not very many carbon tube lugged bikes hand made in a smaller factory in Italy by a group of folks who dedicate their lives and careers to cycling.
> 
> But I'm biased. I ride a C59. There is a reason I chose it, however, and I absolutely love the bike.
> 
> Time to go ride...



Colnago M10 is Made in Taiwan and Colnago C59 is Made in Italy.


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## cyclingvet

You may get an M10 much quicker than a C59. I ordered a C59 traditional at the end of July from Maestro. Just got an email from Mike today saying that there has been a delay due to supply problems with the carbon lugsets and tubes from Japan. He has delays on both sloping and traditional frames (they sell 2:1 sloping:traditional) and he has no idea when I'll receive the frame- all he can say is the distributor he uses is pressing for Colnago to clear the backlog.


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## carbonLORD

cyclingvet said:


> You may get an M10 much quicker than a C59. I ordered a C59 traditional at the end of July from Maestro. Just got an email from Mike today saying that there has been a delay due to supply problems with the carbon lugsets and tubes from Japan. He has delays on both sloping and traditional frames (they sell 2:1 sloping:traditional) and he has no idea when I'll receive the frame- all he can say is the distributor he uses is pressing for Colnago to clear the backlog.


First I've heard of this. I ordered my C59 in November and it was on schedule and being painted, should be here any day now. I'll have to contact my rep tomorrow and see whats going on. Inventory list shows plenty of slopers available in all sizes currently. Hoping to get mine before the end of month.


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## j.knight

> You may get an M10 much quicker than a C59. I ordered a C59 traditional at the end of July from Maestro. Just got an email from Mike today saying that there has been a delay due to supply problems with the carbon lugsets and tubes from Japan. He has delays on both sloping and traditional frames (they sell 2:1 sloping:traditional) and he has no idea when I'll receive the frame- all he can say is the distributor he uses is pressing for Colnago to clear the backlog.





carbonLORD said:


> First I've heard of this. I ordered my C59 in November and it was on schedule and being painted, should be here any day now. I'll have to contact my rep tomorrow and see whats going on. Inventory list shows plenty of slopers available in all sizes currently. Hoping to get mine before the end of month.


What are you guys ordering? I decided to go with the c59 GDBL and got it in two days. Are you going with custom geometry or something?


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## carbonLORD

j.knight said:


> What are you guys ordering? I decided to go with the c59 GDBL and got it in two days. Are you going with custom geometry or something?


It was probably in stock.

I changed my order from a 56s EPQ to a 60 traditional C59 in MTBK.

There is a 61 MTBK in stock, but I'm holding out for what I originally ordered.

There is also a NERO 56 sloper in stock and boy is it tempting, but, I've waited this long and the season is still far enough that I can wait some more, (besides I do have my existing BMC Team Machine for that sudden day anyway).


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## cyclingvet

I ordered a 57 Traditional Europcar colour. I do know that Maestro never makes promises on delivery but it would appear his distributor in Belgium is not getting as good a deal from Colnago as others?


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## carbonLORD

cyclingvet said:


> You may get an M10 much quicker than a C59. I ordered a C59 traditional at the end of July from Maestro. Just got an email from Mike today saying that there has been a delay due to supply problems with the carbon lugsets and tubes from Japan. He has delays on both sloping and traditional frames (they sell 2:1 sloping:traditional) and he has no idea when I'll receive the frame- all he can say is the distributor he uses is pressing for Colnago to clear the backlog.


Just got a call that mine is ready for pick-up! Going to get it tomorrow!

My contact said Maestro is selling gray market frames. might be why they have delayed your order. Just what I heard but the source is as reliable as they come.

I'll be sure to post pictures as she progresses.


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## Karbon Kev

j.knight said:


> Really want one of these. can't afford both (or either for that matter) Any ideas what the difference is in ride or stiffness?


I have no experience of the M10, but I can tell you the C59 is THE stiffest frame I have ever ridden, THE bike of choice right now imo .....


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## AnthonyL88

Why don't you try Wrench Science and ask for Brian. You can also try RA Cycles and I know they got a lot of Colnago C59 in stock.


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## varian72

Maestro seems to have the best prices for a US based person. Where else are people buying that are NOT gray market (If maestro is at all)?


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## 2ndrep

Regarding the M10. I think its one of the most uninspiring Colnago frames to date. A far east made frame with no Italian flair. Isn't it made by Giant? To be honest, if it didn't have the words COLNAGO on the frame, most wouldn't give it a second glance. 

However the C59..........that's a different game all together!


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## carbonLORD

varian72 said:


> Maestro seems to have the best prices for a US based person. Where else are people buying that are NOT gray market (If maestro is at all)?


Colnago America...

In Chicago we have 3 colnago dealers, plus the fact that Colnago America is also located in Chicago helps.

Gray market is gray market, caveat emptor.


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## varian72

carbonLORD said:


> Colnago America...
> 
> In Chicago we have 3 colnago dealers, plus the fact that Colnago America is also located in Chicago helps.
> 
> Gray market is gray market, caveat emptor.


So....with a $2000 premium in the US you get what vs ordering from overseas?

Warranty?


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## carbonLORD

varian72 said:


> So....with a $2000 premium in the US you get what vs ordering from overseas?
> 
> Warranty?


That and piece of mind that I am not getting some knock-off, second, blem, refurbished garbage from a non-authorised dealer pushing gray market frames out of a back door and if anything should happen, I walk up the street, not ship my frame back to wherever land, pay for it and hope I get some resolve, if ever.


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## one80

carbonLORD said:


> That and piece of mind that I am not getting some knock-off, second, blem, refurbished garbage from a non-authorised dealer pushing gray market frames out of a back door and if anything should happen, I walk up the street, not ship my frame back to wherever land, pay for it and hope I get some resolve, if ever.


Maestro gets his frames from the authorised Benelux distributor (Cogadex I believe), which is in no way "grey market".

Mike has been in the business of selling Colnago's for over 30 years. No doubt Colnago are well aware of him and his business, and it obviously benefits them both.

Ironically, you're happy to bash another retailer based on nothing more than your "reliable source", however when the shoe's on the other foot you feel quite differently...



carbonLORD said:


> I'ts always interesting to see how rumor spreads. How each individual contributes to a variety of misinformation and judge of character.


Original thread HERE.


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## carbonLORD

one80 said:


> Maestro gets his frames from the authorised Benelux distributor (Cogadex I believe), which is in no way "grey market".
> 
> Mike has been in the business of selling Colnago's for over 30 years. No doubt Colnago are well aware of him and his business, and it obviously benefits them both.


It does? and you know this how?



one80 said:


> Ironically, you're happy to bash another retailer based on nothing more than your "reliable source", however when the shoe's on the other foot you feel quite differently...


I didn't realize I was bashing anyone but before you dig an even deeper hole, let me tell you about what I do know.

1: I am the manager of an authorized Colnago dealership in Chicago.

2: The Colnago I own, a C59 I bought directly on my EP from Colnago America.... and yes, I followed along the 4 month build process from start to finish as I anxiously awaited my legitimate frame.

3 When I took delivery of my frame from Colnago America direct and mentioned Maestro take a wild guess at what the folks at Colnago America had to say about them...

Perhaps they were at one point legit, but that time has passed.

Don't question me with forum banter, I know exactly what I am talking about.


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## carbonLORD

one80 said:


> Original thread HERE.


And I have no idea why you thought more forum banter from 2004 (almost 10 years ago) has anything to do with the subject at hand other then the fact you are quite handy with a shovel.

And... I'm still here, selling those parts too. Not bad for a guy that sells, what was it, junk?


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## PaxRomana

Maestro is basically one person, Mike. He's forgotten more about cycling than your average distributor will every learn. He is absolutely up front and legit. I have had numerous email and phone conversations with him.

The fact that Colnago America bashes him is quite expected, since he is taking money away from them. That part doesn't interest me at all. I have absolutely no problem buying from Mike. I have done so in the past and will continue to do so. 

Mike has been in business for decades. His excellent reputation precedes him, whatever detractors who lose business to him may say. The products he sells are absolutely legitimate, and people who suggest otherwise should be ashamed of themselves.


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## PaxRomana

varian72 said:


> So....with a $2000 premium in the US you get what vs ordering from overseas?
> 
> Warranty?


You get a warranty ordering from overseas as well. It's EU law.


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## carbonLORD

PaxRomana said:


> Maestro is basically one person, Mike. He's forgotten more about cycling than your average distributor will every learn. He is absolutely up front and legit. I have had numerous email and phone conversations with him.
> 
> The fact that Colnago America bashes him is quite expected, since he is taking money away from them. That part doesn't interest me at all. I have absolutely no problem buying from Mike. I have done so in the past and will continue to do so.
> 
> Mike has been in business for decades. His excellent reputation precedes him, whatever detractors who lose business to him may say. The products he sells are absolutely legitimate, and people who suggest otherwise should be ashamed of themselves.


I'm certainly not the first person to discuss Maestro with regards to gray market Colnagos, a simple Google search will pull up that information as others have asked the question long before I was ever interested in the brand.

The way I hard it...

Mike/Maestro were indeed once a fully legit Colnago dealer for many, many years.

The impression I got was that currently, Maestro has been selling factory seconds and handling repairs for out of warranty claims including some that were denied by Colnago America.

I can see where this might cause a problem for both Colnago and Colnago America as a denied warranty repair would be unsanctioned by Colnago and I'm not sure why anyone would validate gray market sales.

Perhaps Mike still has connections for both authorized and gray market frames and is also handling warranty issues directly.

This is fine if it works for him and his customers and they are informed on exactly what they are receiving.

I guess we'll never really know the true story as we have the word of Mike/Maestro's customers versus what I heard from the representatives at Colnago America.

I'm just the messenger, in this case by side of Colnago America who supplies our shop and delivered my frame. I can't say for sure what reason Colnago America would have for telling me Mike/Maestro is dealing in gray market frames but that is what they said when I brought up his name.

I doubt Colnago America considers Mike a threat as Colnago America does not deal to the public or his customer base. Colnago America are the supply chain to US shops directly and handle warranty issues for their region.

Something doesn't make sense but without all of the details, I can only share what I've heard regarding it.

At the end of the day, I know where I got my C59 from and thats all that really matters to me.


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## PaxRomana

carbonLORD said:


> I'm certainly not the first person to discuss Maestro with regards to gray market Colnagos, a simple Google search will pull up that information as others have asked the question long before I was ever interested in the brand.
> 
> The way I hard it...
> 
> Mike/Maestro were indeed once a fully legit Colnago dealer for many, many years.
> 
> The impression I got was that currently, Maestro has been selling factory seconds and handling repairs for out of warranty claims including some that were denied by Colnago America.
> 
> I can see where this might cause a problem for both Colnago and Colnago America as a denied warranty repair would be unsanctioned by Colnago and I'm not sure why anyone would validate gray market sales.
> 
> Perhaps Mike still has connections for both authorized and gray market frames and is also handling warranty issues directly.
> 
> This is fine if it works for him and his customers and they are informed on exactly what they are receiving.
> 
> I guess we'll never really know the true story as we have the word of Mike/Maestro's customers versus what I heard from the representatives at Colnago America.
> 
> I'm just the messenger, in this case by side of Colnago America who supplies our shop and delivered my frame. I can't say for sure what reason Colnago America would have for telling me Mike/Maestro is dealing in gray market frames but that is what they said when I brought up his name.
> 
> I doubt Colnago America considers Mike a threat as Colnago America does not deal to the public or his customer base. Colnago America are the supply chain to US shops directly and handle warranty issues for their region.
> 
> Something doesn't make sense but without all of the details, I can only share what I've heard regarding it.
> 
> At the end of the day, I know where I got my C59 from and thats all that really matters to me.


Personally, I don't care what Colnago America tells you. I know first hand that what you heard is a lie. Mike does not sell factory seconds. Mike is taking business from Colnago America, hence they have a very good reason to spread false rumors about him. If people buy Colnago from Mike, the shops, and therefore Colnago America are losing business. That should be very obvious.

Mike buys his frames directly from the Benelux distributor and sells them. His prices are $2200 lower than a US price for a C59. As for warranty, you ship the bike to him, and he handles it. Simple. His customers know exactly where the frame originated as well: the Benelux distributor.


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## carbonLORD

PaxRomana said:


> Personally, I don't care what Colnago America tells you. I know first hand that what you heard is a lie. Mike does not sell factory seconds. Mike is taking business from Colnago America, hence they have a very good reason to spread false rumors about him. If people buy Colnago from Mike, the shops, and therefore Colnago America are losing business. That should be very obvious.
> 
> Mike buys his frames directly from the Benelux distributor and sells them. His prices are $2200 lower than a US price for a C59. As for warranty, you ship the bike to him, and he handles it. Simple. His customers know exactly where the frame originated as well: the Benelux distributor.


Whatever makes you sleep better at night. Again, I have read elsewhere, here and on other forums that Maestro is questionable, whereas I've not heard the same regarding Colnago America.

So Mike the one man show is able to sell thousands below MSRP (below cost even) and that still sounds on the up and up to you? I guess Mike is a saint and doesn't want to make any money, in fact, he is loosing money to give you a brand new C59 

I don't know where you are from but the old saying "If is sounds too good to be true"... Well, you _should_ know the rest.

Again, if you want to convince yourself that Colnago America are a bunch of liars and Mike the one man show can sell frames below cost then go right ahead, I'm not stopping you, I could honestly care less but Ive yet to read anywhere about Colnago America selling gray market anything, just sayin'


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## PaxRomana

carbonLORD said:


> Whatever makes you sleep better at night. Again, I have read elsewhere, here and on other forums that Maestro is questionable, whereas I've not heard the same regarding Colnago America.
> 
> So Mike the one man show is able to sell thousands below MSRP (below cost even) and that still sounds on the up and up to you? I guess Mike is a saint and doesn't want to make any money, in fact, he is loosing money to give you a brand new C59
> 
> I don't know where you are from but the old saying "If is sounds too good to be true"... Well, you _should_ know the rest.
> 
> Again, if you want to convince yourself that Colnago America are a bunch of liars and Mike the one man show can sell frames below cost then go right ahead, I'm not stopping you, I could honestly care less but Ive yet to read anywhere about Colnago America selling gray market anything, just sayin'


What are you talking about? He's not selling the frames below HIS cost. He's selling the frame below YOUR cost. Which is YOUR problem. Not his. Not mine, either. European prices are not the same as US prices. Mike's cost is lower than yours for Colnago. Same for Campagnolo. I'm surprised that I have to explain this to you.

I'm curious as to where you read that Mike is "questionable". Care to provide any links, or is it just something you sort of "ran across"? 

I have nothing bad to say about Soren Krebs or Colnago America. I don't need to deal with them, since I'm not going to spend 6k for a frame I can get for less than $4k. You can make whatever decision you wish.


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## carbonLORD

PaxRomana said:


> What are you talking about? He's not selling the frames below HIS cost. He's selling the frame below YOUR cost. Which is YOUR problem. Not his. Not mine, either. European prices are not the same as US prices. Mike's cost is lower than yours for Colnago. Same for Campagnolo. I'm surprised that I have to explain this to you.
> 
> I'm curious as to where you read that Mike is "questionable". Care to provide any links, or is it just something you sort of "ran across"?
> 
> I have nothing bad to say about Soren Krebs or Colnago America. I don't need to deal with them, since I'm not going to spend 6k for a frame I can get for less than $4k. You can make whatever decision you wish.


The selling below cost was somewhat sarcasm, thought at $2000 less US MSRP that is cutting pretty close and I wonder how Mike stays in business with margins so low.

I dont have a problem, I purchased my C59 for far less then what Maestro sells them for. It would be a problem for other retail consumers though. You do know what EP is correct?

Links... Google it. Here's one:

Weight Weenies • View topic - Maestro - Colnago

Doesn't sound like the same process to me. I don't need to show you how to use Google do I?

I have nothing more to add to the discussion. You can continue to justify your purchase. I don't need to justify mine.


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## PaxRomana

carbonLORD said:


> The selling below cost was somewhat sarcasm, thought at $2000 less US MSRP that is cutting pretty close and I wonder how Mike stays in business with margins so low.
> 
> I dont have a problem, I purchased my C59 for far less then what Maestro sells them for. It would be a problem for other retail consumers though. You do know what EP is correct?
> 
> Links... Google it. Here's one:
> 
> Weight Weenies • View topic - Maestro - Colnago
> 
> Doesn't sound like the same process to me. I don't need to show you how to use Google do I?
> 
> I have nothing more to add to the discussion. You can continue to justify your purchase. I don't need to justify mine.


I have no need to justify mine either. I'm quite happy with my purchases from Mike, as are many customers on those threads. 

It's no problem for a retail customer unless they don't know better than to buy a Colnago for US retail. You have to go EP to get a better deal than what Mike offers to everyone. I can understand why you seem so defensive about Mike. 

Anyone clicking those links will quickly see that the people posting the anti-Mike stuff are dealers or parties like Pez, who are interested in staying in the good graces of the US dealers.

Grey market? The guy's been in business for decades, pal. You think he'd last like that if he was annoying Colnago or Campy? 

He's not the only one offering good deals. Lots of other UK distributors do too: Slane, Shiny, etc.

Anyway, hope you enjoy your bike. I'm enjoying mine.


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## carbonLORD

PaxRomana said:


> I have no need to justify mine either. I'm quite happy with my purchases from Mike, as are many customers on those threads.
> 
> It's no problem for a retail customer unless they don't know better than to buy a Colnago for US retail. You have to go EP to get a better deal than what Mike offers to everyone. I can understand why you seem so defensive about Mike.
> 
> Anyone clicking those links will quickly see that the people posting the anti-Mike stuff are dealers or parties like Pez, who are interested in staying in the good graces of the US dealers.
> 
> Grey market? The guy's been in business for decades, pal. You think he'd last like that if he was annoying Colnago or Campy?
> 
> He's not the only one offering good deals. Lots of other UK distributors do too: Slane, Shiny, etc.
> 
> Anyway, hope you enjoy your bike. I'm enjoying mine.


Cheers.

It was never my intention to point the finger or judge. I was just repeating what I heard and read.

Believe me, after being online for over 10 years myself I know what it's like to defend ones products. As long as the customer is happy in the end and no one feels cheated, that's all that really counts.


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## Salsa_Lover

I think it is a shame they libelled him so much and that led him to stop offering classic paintjobs on modern frames

I would totally buy a C59 traditional on AD10 from him.


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## Evil Laugh

carbonLORD said:


> Cheers.
> 
> It was never my intention to point the finger or judge. I was just repeating what I heard and read.
> 
> Believe me, after being online for over 10 years myself I know what it's like to defend ones products. As long as the customer is happy in the end and no one feels cheated, that's all that really counts.


No you're not repeating what you heard, you are taking a bit of gossip, making stuff up, speculating and scaremongering and trying to devalue someone elses business on a forum full of their potential customers and in turn making yourself look a complete tool.

The fact you can't comprehend that maybe Maestro pays less trade for a c59 through the Euro distributor than what the US distributor charges it's retailers and also can't see that Colnago USA may just be a little threatened by someone who sells over 10% of all c59s made each year (mainly to USA) for a price they cannot match also suggests you are more than a little stupid. 

So far you've suggested without any founding Maestro loses money selling Colnagos, sells fake or damaged Colnagos (so what is is are they fakes or not?) and in a pretty aggressive manner. 

"some knock-off, second, blem, refurbished garbage from a non-authorised dealer pushing gray market frames out of a back door"

FWIW I ordered my GLBK trad 56 di2 C59 from Mike in August and picked it up from his house at the beginning of the year. 

I must have been very lucky to get a made to order size, di2, ltd ed colour frame come up as a second from the factory within a normal build window. Or maybe maestro are selling so many di2 traditional frames they bother to fake them. Or maybe I just bought a C59 made in the same factory as all the other frames, the same quality as all the other Colnagos I own and have owned for a very reasonable price.

Throughout the buying process of my c59 i did a lot of research into Maestro and whether it was worth buying through a UK retailer who uses Windwave. It seemed to me all Mike's detractors were in fact his competitors. Mike was honest enough to tell me what he makes on these frames and for a one man band it is a tidy profit, especially considering how many he sells. Merlin occasionally sell C59s for around the same price so he is not the only one who can do so in the UK at least.


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## 2ndrep

How strange.


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## icsloppl

2ndrep said:


> How strange.


Which part(s)? :idea:


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## carbonLORD

Evil Laugh said:


> No you're not repeating what you heard, you are taking a bit of gossip, making stuff up, speculating and scaremongering and trying to devalue someone elses business on a forum full of their potential customers and in turn making yourself look a complete tool.
> 
> The fact you can't comprehend that maybe Maestro pays less trade for a c59 through the Euro distributor than what the US distributor charges it's retailers and also can't see that Colnago USA may just be a little threatened by someone who sells over 10% of all c59s made each year (mainly to USA) for a price they cannot match also suggests you are more than a little stupid.
> 
> So far you've suggested without any founding Maestro loses money selling Colnagos, sells fake or damaged Colnagos (so what is is are they fakes or not?) and in a pretty aggressive manner.
> 
> "some knock-off, second, blem, refurbished garbage from a non-authorised dealer pushing gray market frames out of a back door"
> 
> FWIW I ordered my GLBK trad 56 di2 C59 from Mike in August and picked it up from his house at the beginning of the year.
> 
> I must have been very lucky to get a made to order size, di2, ltd ed colour frame come up as a second from the factory within a normal build window. Or maybe maestro are selling so many di2 traditional frames they bother to fake them. Or maybe I just bought a C59 made in the same factory as all the other frames, the same quality as all the other Colnagos I own and have owned for a very reasonable price.
> 
> Throughout the buying process of my c59 i did a lot of research into Maestro and whether it was worth buying through a UK retailer who uses Windwave. It seemed to me all Mike's detractors were in fact his competitors. Mike was honest enough to tell me what he makes on these frames and for a one man band it is a tidy profit, especially considering how many he sells. Merlin occasionally sell C59s for around the same price so he is not the only one who can do so in the UK at least.


I didn't make it past the part where you call me stupid honestly.

I never mentioned Maestro when I originally refereed to second hand etc, that was another poster to which I replied on what I heard when his name was brought up by another poster, like you, attempting to validate their purchase.

What I did say is what I heard from our supplier who I'm sure knows more then both you or I. I don't have time to make up stories or spread gossip. I could care less if Maestro sells a million bikes a year, it doesn't take any money away from me personally.

I think you are trying to justify your purchase, which is fine but know that I paid less then any of you did and Colnago is one of 13 brands the shop I work with carries so why would I care?

The reality, in 5 months Ive yet to sell a single Colnago, while I sell a dozen Tarmac's, CAAD 10's and Quintana Roo's a week so again, I really do not care, but it sounds like you should look into what it is you purchased.

Justify it however you want. I don't hear the same rumor or gossip about Colnago America. Whats next you going to call everyone that has ever pulled up the same topic stupid and try and convince them?

Go enjoy your questionably legitimate Colnago frame and continue to try and impress total strangers on an obscure internet forum that you know anything. The fact that you consider RBR a viable outlet tells me enough considering its the same 12 lurkers on here daily, hardly a customer base worth Colnago America and Maestro fighting over which is why I suspect neither of them ever visit here for a reason.

...oh and I gotta say "Scaremongering" really? I think the only people scared on here are the people who are just learning how gray market works but from what I gather in your post I imagine you wear a fake Rolex and bought your wife a knock off Louis Vuitton bag since "so what if is are they fakes or not" is how you really feel.


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