# BG Fit



## RobertBGfitter (Jan 10, 2008)

For those of you out there not familiar with Specialized BG DATA fit there is a great article posted on cyclingnews.com about the fitting of the Saxo Bank team. Very exciting stuff. Being an Advanced BG Fitter myself its wonderful seeing the affects it makes. If your local Specialized dealer doesn't do this, trust me its worth it,find one get fit.


----------



## PaulRivers (Sep 11, 2006)

Do you have a link?

I've read about all these pro fits, but I don't know that the best fit for a serious racer is the best fit for me. I got fitted at a specialized dealer when I got my bike, but now I'm all hunched over and I feel like I can't breathe as well. My back always hurt after riding, though eventually it went away like the guy said it would. Still, riding my bike is a matter of acclimating my body to be in an unnatural position.

I wish I could get a fit that was like "the fastest you can be while still being comfortable".


----------



## ukbloke (Sep 1, 2007)

Here is the link. I thought it was pretty interesting, especially the details on how biomechanical strengths and weaknesses translate to bike fit. It isn't just about body dimensions.


----------



## capt_phun (Jun 14, 2004)

Its just another specialized marketing tool. It is not like Saxo-bank went out on their own & hunted down a fitter, & chose Pruitt. Pruitt & specialized are partners, hence send Saxo-bank to pruitt, take a lot of pictures, but them all over the internet & specialized will make sales. 
Also the level of fit varies significantly from one BG fitter to the next. Just because a fitter is "certified" does not make them a "good" fitter.


----------



## PJ352 (Dec 5, 2007)

capt_phun said:


> Its just another specialized marketing tool. It is not like Saxo-bank went out on their own & hunted down a fitter, & chose Pruitt. Pruitt & specialized are partners, hence send Saxo-bank to pruitt, take a lot of pictures, but them all over the internet & specialized will make sales.


Of course, like any other company there's a facet of marketing to it, but Specialized should be credited with formulating the BG FIT system. Yes, it incorporates some widely accepted/ established (pro fit) practices, but also incorporates its own. And when comparing their system to almost anyone elses (most nonexistent), Spec shines.

If you haven't already seen it:
http://www.specialized.com/bc/microsite/bgfit/bgfit.html 



capt_phun said:


> Also the level of fit varies significantly from one BG fitter to the next. Just because a fitter is "certified" does not make them a "good" fitter.


I don't see the relevance. The fact that some people are better on their jobs than others has nothing to so with Specialized or BG technology. Serotta has certified fitters as well, and I've seen some instances where the fitter applied his opinions to a cyclist, quite possibly not serving that cyclists best interests. It doesn't mean Serotta's fit system is inherently bad.


----------



## RobertBGfitter (Jan 10, 2008)

True on one part there.Fitters are different, due to the fact that no matter how fancy the tools you have to assist in the fit of a rider, the person performing the fit is the Tool. It does take years of performing fits to understand what works. Myself I have 17 years of fitting experience and perform fits on a regular basis.Saxo Bank team getting fitted by Andy was not a requirement of riding with Specialized, I'm sure if you ask the ever growing number of great cyclists that Dr.Pruitt has fitted or that has had a BG Fit its a blessing.


----------



## DS1239622 (Mar 21, 2007)

RobertBGFitter: Where are you located? Im in need of a good fit.


----------



## RobertBGfitter (Jan 10, 2008)

We are located at Competition Sports in Gulfport MS.


----------



## Catapult (Nov 5, 2004)

*not to rain on the parade*

I've been riding and/or racing for 25+ years so I thought I'd get my history out of the way.

Back in the day of toe-clips and friction shifting, if you went to a decent, serious bike shop that emphasized quality, the management or owner would personally take charge of making sure the bike you rode suited your needs and fit properly. I worked in one of these shops for some time and there were a few things that distinguished a good shop from a poor shop.

1) The people who worked there cared about your riding experience and made sure that even after you rolled away on you bike, if there was a comfort problem, they would help you by swapping out stems/seats, etc until things were right.

2) Fit evolves over time. The riding position of an inexperienced rider is different from an experienced rider. There are also other factors (physiological, psychological, biomechanical) that go into fitting a bike that cannot be summed up in some algorithm. You need to try something, see if it works or not, and adjust as needed. Heck things can change over a season so to think that one fitting will be the be all and end all for you is ridiculous and absurd. From my experience things such as the materials used in a bike and the parts spec can alter subtle characteristics in fit (bar and seat selection have a huge effect), so jumping on that Serotta fitting bike is a waste of time in my opinion unless you plan on riding the stupid thing. You need to be fitted on the bike you intend to ride!

3) Fitting was part of the buying experience and was not an additional cost...it was part of the purchasing experience. These ridiculous fees (I've been quoted upwards of $300) disgust me and suggest that the shops that push this sort of stuff don't care about the rider, they care about recouping the cost or their fancy (and largely useless) fitcycle.

4) Riders were riding long before all this crap came about and as far as I can tell got by just fine using common sense and some help with experienced individuals who understand how a bike works and how it should fit. Computers were unnecessary and aside from the occasional standouts (e.g. Sean Kelly and his awkward position), most people who spent some real time on a bike figured it out. Give me about 5 minutes and I will get you within about 90% of your ideal position using nothing more than a plumb bob and my eyes...it ain't rocket science.

Through my time on bikes I can tell if my position is off by about +/- 2mm in any direction and I suspect most other experienced riders are the same (heck I just bought a new bike, sans stupid fitting assistance since I know what I need, and got dialed in on one ride with just myself and my 4mm allen in about 15 minutes). Aside from those needing specialized assistance with aerodynamics (time trialists needing wind tunnel data) I really think that this obsession with "fit" is enormously overrated and people are being fooled and wasting their money.

Just my opinion but feel free to flame away.


----------



## DG123 (Dec 18, 2008)

What you say makes excellent sense. 
Golf is my area of expertise, not cycling. Advancements in computer technology have created a new money making business in the area of "fitting" a player to new golf equipment.. It's unnecessary and often times counterproductive. 




Catapult said:


> I've been riding and/or racing for 25+ years so I thought I'd get my history out of the way.
> 
> Back in the day of toe-clips and friction shifting, if you went to a decent, serious bike shop that emphasized quality, the management or owner would personally take charge of making sure the bike you rode suited your needs and fit properly. I worked in one of these shops for some time and there were a few things that distinguished a good shop from a poor shop.
> 
> ...


----------



## RobertBGfitter (Jan 10, 2008)

*Fitting machines or Fitters?*

While yes since the addition of items like Dartfish,Retul and Specialized DATA, these items do make it easier for fitters to fine tune adjustments,but the key item is they are only tools. The major thing is it does boil down to the fitter themselves.Just from my experience I found I have a leg length discrepancy whereas my left tibia is shorter than my right. While yes I have been cycling for over 30 years and always carried a allen wrench with me when I rode.While at SBCU last April, Dr Pruitt and Andrew Hammond discovered the discrepancy. This is something I would have never looked for before. Say what you want, but I started this post under the Specialized section informing those interested in what Specialized is offering not for marketing purposes but for education.


----------



## jsellers (Feb 14, 2008)

> Back in the day of toe-clips and friction shifting, if you went to a decent, serious bike shop that emphasized quality, the management or owner would personally take charge of making sure the bike you rode suited your needs and fit properly. I worked in one of these shops for some time and there were a few things that distinguished a good shop from a poor shop.
> 
> 1) The people who worked there cared about your riding experience and made sure that even after you rolled away on you bike, if there was a comfort problem, they would help you by swapping out stems/seats, etc until things were right.


That is the same as today if the shop pushes you out after buying, you just went into the wrong place, service is important. The shop should cater to the customer.

2


> ) Fit evolves over time. The riding position of an inexperienced rider is different from an experienced rider. There are also other factors (physiological, psychological, biomechanical) that go into fitting a bike that cannot be summed up in some algorithm. You need to try something, see if it works or not, and adjust as needed. Heck things can change over a season so to think that one fitting will be the be all and end all for you is ridiculous and absurd. From my experience things such as the materials used in a bike and the parts spec can alter subtle characteristics in fit (bar and seat selection have a huge effect), so jumping on that Serotta fitting bike is a waste of time in my opinion unless you plan on riding the stupid thing. You need to be fitted on the bike you intend to ride!


You do have some truth to what you say in here that is why most good fitters will have you come back in for a follow up after a couple of months. This is because your body does change but most of the changes are just minor tweaks. Plus the fit bike gives base lines final work should be on your bike. Also how do you know you are right with out any background of the rider that is another part of the fit.



> 3) Fitting was part of the buying experience and was not an additional cost...it was part of the purchasing experience. These ridiculous fees (I've been quoted upwards of $300) disgust me and suggest that the shops that push this sort of stuff don't care about the rider, they care about recouping the cost or their fancy (and largely useless) fitcycle.


Yeah the fit you are talking about of you look good on the bike is part of the experience but not all of it. Yes you do have to charge for your services not just the cost of equipment but schooling and time, so what you are saying is if I go to doctor for office visit and need surgery it should be part of price I paid( over exaggeration but example ) You have to value your knowledge. So that means you do your work and give away knowledge of your job and time for free also?



> 4) Riders were riding long before all this crap came about and as far as I can tell got by just fine using common sense and some help with experienced individuals who understand how a bike works and how it should fit. Computers were unnecessary and aside from the occasional standouts (e.g. Sean Kelly and his awkward position), most people who spent some real time on a bike figured it out. Give me about 5 minutes and I will get you within about 90% of your ideal position using nothing more than a plumb bob and my eyes...it ain't rocket science.


So when Andy Pruitt fitted Eddy Merckx and found the problems he had been riding with and won the tour and all the titles he has. That is why Eddy rode with a wrench so he could change things during the ride. But then I guess Eddy and all the champions fitted are not as experienced as you are. Plus the computer is a tool just like the plumb bob. The fitter uses his knowledge not the computer it is just there to help you see other things.

And just for experience I have been riding 20+ years and my fit was only off by a few mm but that made a difference.


----------



## Catapult (Nov 5, 2004)

*you make some valid points*

As I pointed out, with the right person with the right knowledge, you can get to about 90% of a good fit, but it doesn't require a host of machines to figure this out nor does it involve high costs ($200-300 dollars) IMHO.

Comparing bike fitters to Doctors is hilarious...sure, a few of hours at a fit course is equivalent to years of high pressure education and should be priced accordingly.....HA!

I am a board certified Ph.D. level consultant and I charge less per hour than a lot of these fit consultants! I'm all for a shop recouping their costs and make a point of patronizing my LBS, but $200-300 for a fit? You have got to be joking. Maybe $50-75 might be reasonable if there is real benefit, but how about throwing in a guarantee (which I've never seen offered by a fitter) that you will achieve a legitimate benefit, otherwise its the equivalent of homeopathy and a strong placebo effect for a lot of folks

I run during the week due to time constraints (ugh) and when I went to the running shoe store they had me run on a treadmill and analyzed my gait...for no cost, and I bought shoes based on their recommendation and have been happy with the choice. Guess what, they will be getting repeat business from me. I expect similar service from my LBS.


----------



## RobertBGfitter (Jan 10, 2008)

First of all, I'm not referring myself to a Ph.D. That would be my mentor Dr Andy Pruitt Ph.D.
whom as an Advanced BG Fitter I spent 2 weeks at a school with. Yes bicycle fitting is a business and we are educated as such. If a LBS has a trained,certified fitter they will not give away a fitting. We do have a good fit at a $75.00 price and is a very good fit for the majority of riders. I get referrals from Physicians and PT's for setups of their rides. Can the guys at the corner LBS do a good fit? Possibly yes. If you look at the LBS's around the country specializing in fits $200-300 is about the norm. I have been in the bicycle industry now since 1979 and compared to my early days yes it has changed. Heck a tune up use to be only $25.00. We average around 3-4 advanced fits a week and 2-4 regular 2D fits with customers driving sometimes 3-4 hours. We do make it an experience for our clients. If your curious why not call the Boulder Center for Sports Medicine and ask the cost for a fitting with Dr.Pruitt. By no means am I comparing myself to Andy but this is what his dream was to have the common LBS taking up the slack.


----------



## jsellers (Feb 14, 2008)

Just used the doctor analogy because the way you sound is that if you walk in that every thing else should be added in. We still have building to pay for and then you have people that come in a milk information and go some where else, so you think just because we are not "rocket scientist" or information is not valuable enough to charge for. Plus as a question, as a board certified Ph. D. level consultant do you offer a guarantee?


----------



## Catapult (Nov 5, 2004)

*I'm gonna lose this one*

To reply to RobertBGfitter:

I wish you luck and I realize you are trying to help people, not rip them off. I just have had too many instances where a bike shop employee has tried to push a fitting on me when I don't need it and give me derisive looks when I tell them it is something I don't need (maybe its just that I don't like some 20 year old guy giving me a dismissive look when I tell them that I know what I do and do not need). If you are really providing a demonstrable benefit to people and improve their experience in a measurable way, then $300 is a small price to pay in these days of $450 bike shorts.

To reply to JSellers:

there are no guarantees in the consulting business, just results. There are about 1000 people on the planet who can provide the services I provide and I rely on my reputation, honesty, and proven track record to get my clients results. It is a highly scientific area with very high risk/reward and a need for extremely specialized knowledge that is only picked up after years in my industry and a whole lot of scientific training. The key factor that keeps my clients coming back is proven results provided in a highly ethical setting. I work in a regulated industry where life and death decisions are made and the highest ethical standards need to be followed otherwise people can be placed at serious risk. Knowledge, experience and honesty are the key factors in succeeding and those who don't work within this framework are rapidly eliminated. Hence the reason why I take a skeptical stance on many things that I feel do not bring value and only add cost and waste.

Now I'll get of my high horse....


----------



## jsellers (Feb 14, 2008)

Thanks and I do understand but I do work in a shop that offers services that we believe are needed, so we inform the public of but try not to push because that is not our style. I get defensive when people look down on us in the shops but there are alot of us that made the decision to be here even after having other careers. It has been fun.


----------



## STARNUT (Jun 19, 2005)

Dr. Pruitt is Ed.D. not a PhD. 

You're using the term "Dr." like he was a PhD biomechanist or something. His Ed.D came in handy when _teaching_ the Specalizied guys how to sell the BG hoooha.

Being a BG Fitter myself (along with about 6 different other "fit systems") I can wholehearted say the BG fit is a good place to start but it is _far_ from ideal. Due dilligence here, I don't sell Specalized and do not offer a "BG Fit" but to offer 3 different fits with 3 very different results and different prices.

Rather than tell people to find a BG fitter, tell them to find a _good_ fitter. The can be but are not necessarily mutally exclusive. I, literally, have a BG Shop across the street from me. I mean I can hit them with a tennis ball they are so close. We can call them and watch the pick up the phone. I do more of their fits than they do, and people will come over and pay us to do it.............

Find a good, experienced, knowledgable fitter.................... that may or may not be BG certified. Finding a BG fitter does not mean you'll get a good fit.

Pruitt charges $400-$500 last I checked.

Starnut


----------



## Catapult (Nov 5, 2004)

STARNUT said:


> Dr. Pruitt is Ed.D. not a PhD.
> 
> You're using the term "Dr." like he was a PhD biomechanist or something. His Ed.D came in handy when _teaching_ the Specalizied guys how to sell the BG hoooha.
> 
> ...


Yeah, an ED.D. ain't a Ph.D. and I know the difference here believe me (ahhh thesis research flashbacks!!!)

I have to give a big +1 to Starnut because I wholeheartedly agree that it is the person (training, skills, experience and intuition), not the "system" that produces a quality fitting. I learned from a really good mentor but I'm about 1/3 as skilled as he was so I don't offer fitting help to friends anymore, but I do make suggestions when I see something really out of whack (stupid, lower your saddle your hips are rocking!)...keep up the good work Starnut.:thumbsup: 

Oh, and BGfitter and JSellers, keep at it and I hope it all works out well for you...remember that honest appraisal is always the best appraoch (e.g. "your fit is fine, you don't need my help" is sometimes the way it works out).


----------



## jsellers (Feb 14, 2008)

Well Starnut I don't think it was to say go to BG fitter post started out with the importance of fit and the Saxo Bank article was highlighted. I agree that a good fitter is the best thing the only thing is that specialized just started offering a standard for their dealers that want to offer the services. I truth most fitting systems offer alot of the same stuff just some of the steps are different. some are more number based and others are more rider input. It just comes down to the person doing the fit, because as in earlier post everything else is just an aid for the fitter.


----------



## capt_phun (Jun 14, 2004)

Catapult said:


> Yeah, an ED.D. ain't a Ph.D. and I know the difference here believe me (ahhh thesis research flashbacks!!!)


Thank you. Pruitt has an ED.D. He is NOT a medical doctor. Another specialized marketing tool "Dr. Pruitt". While technically true, he is not a medical doctor and there is a HUGE difference from an Ed.D to a Ph.D. to a Md.D.


----------

