# BB30 vs PressFit30 on a BB30 frame?



## NumLock

I have no idea what all this is and I'm trying to decide what to buy and if there is a difference. I could be completely wrong and they're all the same. I have seen options for the Force crank as BB30 and for Pressfit, which I assume is Pressfit30 that is listed on Sram's website along with BB30. So BB30 normally is a threaded BB and the Pressfit30 is a pressfit cups?


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## PJ352

NumLock said:


> I have no idea what all this is and I'm trying to decide what to buy and if there is a difference. I could be completely wrong and they're all the same. I have seen options for the Force crank as BB30 and for Pressfit, which I assume is Pressfit30 that is listed on Sram's website along with BB30. So BB30 normally is a threaded BB and the Pressfit30 is a pressfit cups?


Here's a link to some info on the topic. Scroll to the bottom for an explanation of Press Fit 30.
http://www.parktool.com/blog/calvins-corner/the-new-world-of-bottom-brackets


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## rx-79g

BB30 and PF30 are both pressed into an unthreaded BB shell. The shells are different and not interchangeable.

As of right now I don't think there are any PF30 frames, so you don't really need to worry about PF30.


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## ziscwg

rx-79g said:


> BB30 and PF30 are both pressed into an unthreaded BB shell. The shells are different and not interchangeable.
> 
> As of right now I don't think there are any PF30 frames, so you don't really need to worry about PF30.


PF30 is something SRAM is pushing. SRAM is so in bed with Cannondale that they have to make BB30 too. From what I have seen of both designs, the BB30 cranks should work on a PF30 BB. I'm open to correction here as I have just looked at drawings.


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## rx-79g

ziscwg said:


> PF30 is something SRAM is pushing. SRAM is so in bed with Cannondale that they have to make BB30 too. From what I have seen of both designs, the BB30 cranks should work on a PF30 BB. I'm open to correction here as I have just looked at drawings.


That's correct - BB30 and PF30 both use the same 30mm (see the 30, there) spindles. But you can't stick a PF30 BB in a BB30 frame, or vice versa. It's not different than having a crank that works with both English and Italian bottom brackets.

BB30 was developed by Cannondale as an open source standard, kind of like how ISIS spindles were. Lots of frame companies are now using BB30, including Specialized (but they call it something else).

PF30 was developed to work in carbon fiber BB shells better than BB30, but use the same oversized, lightweight spindled cranks. It's some BB30 size bearing housed in a protective nylon sleave that decreases the amount of force needed to press and hold the BB.


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## poff

Moots is using PF30.


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## danl1

poff said:


> Moots is using PF30.


So is Lynskey.


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## rx-79g

danl1 said:


> So is Lynskey.


Interesting. Lynskey dumped all their BB30 for PF30, which might make sense from a machining standpoint, but Paragon isn't charging any less for them.

This article is pretty interesting:
http://waltworks.blogspot.com/2010/01/sram-pressfit30-initial-thoughts.html
According to him BB30 and PF30 are a net loss.


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## danl1

rx-79g said:


> Interesting. Lynskey dumped all their BB30 for PF30, which might make sense from a machining standpoint, but Paragon isn't charging any less for them.
> 
> This article is pretty interesting:
> http://waltworks.blogspot.com/2010/01/sram-pressfit30-initial-thoughts.html
> According to him BB30 and PF30 are a net loss.


I tend to be a late adopter for these sorts of things - I'm still not sold on the need for 11s, and while Di2 was neat, I dis-preferred it functionally for my uses, neverminding the usual arguments against. So I'm not sure if I'm just in retro-grouch mode or not, but BB30 seems a solution in search of a problem - and one that brings on a few problems of it's own. PF30 seems a tiny bit better in some practical ways, from the little that I've read, but I've no complaints with regular externals. 

Either probably makes more sense with plastic bikes, but that's not my market anyway. BTDT, back to what works.


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## rx-79g

danl1 said:


> I tend to be a late adopter for these sorts of things - I'm still not sold on the need for 11s, and while Di2 was neat, I dis-preferred it functionally for my uses, neverminding the usual arguments against. So I'm not sure if I'm just in retro-grouch mode or not, but BB30 seems a solution in search of a problem - and one that brings on a few problems of it's own. PF30 seems a tiny bit better in some practical ways, from the little that I've read, but I've no complaints with regular externals.
> 
> Either probably makes more sense with plastic bikes, but that's not my market anyway. BTDT, back to what works.


I guess I'm just amazed the an unthreaded shell and a cupless pressed in bearing system for an oversized alumium spindle isn't obviously lighter than an external cup/steel spindle system. Those numbers would have been obvious when they CAD designs were half finished.

Of course, I have an Octalink BB'd Ritchey crank that together are lighter than a Rival or Ultegra external set up. Maybe the 30 stuff is still in development, or maybe we've hit the point of vanishing returns with oversized stuff. But I'm not going to be feeling poorly about me English BB shells anytime soon.


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## ziscwg

rx-79g said:


> I guess I'm just amazed the an unthreaded shell and a cupless pressed in bearing system for an oversized alumium spindle isn't obviously lighter than an external cup/steel spindle system. Those numbers would have been obvious when they CAD designs were half finished.
> 
> Of course, I have an Octalink BB'd Ritchey crank that together are lighter than a Rival or Ultegra external set up. Maybe the 30 stuff is still in development, or maybe we've hit the point of vanishing returns with oversized stuff. But I'm not going to be feeling poorly about me English BB shells anytime soon.


They are lighter. Even SRAM has them around 150 gr lighter. Unfortunately, they charge a bit more too. 
http://www.sram.com/sram/road/products/sram-force-crankset#fragment-2

There are bb30 issues, but there are for any set up it seems. The ride difference with a BB30 set up vs an English set up is not huge. It is slightly noticeable in stiffness and snappiness of the cranks and BB shell. It's certainly isn't something you go dump your current frame for. It's a nice perk.


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## rx-79g

ziscwg said:


> They are lighter. Even SRAM has them around 150 gr lighter. Unfortunately, they charge a bit more too.
> http://www.sram.com/sram/road/products/sram-force-crankset#fragment-2
> 
> There are bb30 issues, but there are for any set up it seems. The ride difference with a BB30 set up vs an English set up is not huge. It is slightly noticeable in stiffness and snappiness of the cranks and BB shell. It's certainly isn't something you go dump your current frame for. It's a nice perk.


I think the author of the article either read something that minimized the difference in spindle weights. 791 vs. 645g is signicant, even if the rest is a wash.

Thanks.


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## .40AET

Maybe someone can offer me some suggestions. 

The good: I broke my frame and received a sweet upgrade as a replacement. 
The bad, sortof: It has a BB30 shell and I have a relatively new crank with outboard bearings. 

I could buy a new crank, the best that I've seen is the Sram s900 for $295. I can't find any BB30 cranks that have a 180mm arms and I'd like to stick with that. 

I just started reading about the BB30 last night and have a lot of research to do. Looks like I need a new tool at the minimum. 

Thanks,


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## rx-79g

.40AET said:


> Maybe someone can offer me some suggestions.
> 
> The good: I broke my frame and received a sweet upgrade as a replacement.
> The bad, sortof: It has a BB30 shell and I have a relatively new crank with outboard bearings.
> 
> I could buy a new crank, the best that I've seen is the Sram s900 for $295. I can't find any BB30 cranks that have a 180mm arms and I'd like to stick with that.
> 
> I just started reading about the BB30 last night and have a lot of research to do. Looks like I need a new tool at the minimum.
> 
> Thanks,


There are adapters that allow you to use your outboard bearing crank with the BB30 bearings. Look for "Shimano to BB30 adapter", or whatever brand you have. The kind you want are step down rings that go between the spindle and bearings, not the kind that make the BB30 into English.

You don't need speciality tools to insert. You can press the bearings with a bench vice, or some very simple home made stuff. Take a look at youtube.


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## bikerjulio

If your cranks are campy, then you just buy the campy BB30 adapter cups. no problem.


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## .40AET

Thanks, cranks are SRAM and so far, it doesn't look like there is an adapter for them. Only Shimano. I may just order a new crank to take advantage of the BB30 and move the current crank over to another bike that came with shorter arm.


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## rx-79g

.40AET said:


> Thanks, cranks are SRAM and so far, it doesn't look like there is an adapter for them. Only Shimano. I may just order a new crank to take advantage of the BB30 and move the current crank over to another bike that came with shorter arm.


Here they are:
http://wheelsmfg.com/content/view/892/67/


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## cs1

danl1 said:


> So is Lynskey.


It looks like Raleigh is replacing BB30 with PF30 on their cyclocross bikes for 2013.


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## DrSmile

ziscwg said:


> They are lighter. Even SRAM has them around 150 gr lighter. Unfortunately, they charge a bit more too.
> SRAM Force Crankset | SRAM
> 
> There are bb30 issues, but there are for any set up it seems. The ride difference with a BB30 set up vs an English set up is not huge. It is slightly noticeable in stiffness and snappiness of the cranks and BB shell. It's certainly isn't something you go dump your current frame for. It's a nice perk.


I just wanted to point out that a good old English bottom bracket Super Record crankset and cups setup weighs 585+45=630 grams and even the steel axle Record crankset weighs only 43 grams more. The weight savings seem like a marginal gain for the huge con of giving up a long standing BB standard.


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## atpjunkie

from over in the cx forum I have heard nothing great about BB30s


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## Horze

Hi,

I used to be Pro-BB30.

But not any more. BB30 sounded good in theory but the "Shimano design" is ultimately better due to its simplicity, durability and stability. Thereby I consider the threaded BB standard to be more appealing. It may not be the best or most optimised, but until BB standards make some monumental shift, based on what's out there (BSA/BB30/PF30) conventional BSA is preferable.

There are a number of performance oriented, technical considerations too between these standards but now view the Shimano design as preferable. I will return to this discussion at another time.

Believe me I was a tremendous proponent of integrated OS-BB (BB30) but have since altered my view. Based on experience and technical considerations since that time. The industry has obviously since moved on to BB30 and PF30 standards but I no longer believe these standards to be sound.


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## Jamie McGowan

Both are press fit and are made in width (s) of 68mm and 73mm. However the BB30 is 42mm in diameter whereas the PF30 is 46mm. measure the diameter of your shell to see which one you need ( almost certainly BB30). You actually have the choice of many cranks with a BB30 frame because sram make an adaptor to British and Italian threads which is cheap and light. I am using the adaptor to put an Octalink dura ace crank on a BB30 frame. i have read there can be creaking but hopefully with very firm installation i will me able to minimise this. hope this helps


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## Zachariah

Here is a visual of the Wheels Mfg BB30 adapters. A precision, 24-gram part that works well, with either SRAM, FSA or Shimano:


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## NoahD

I'm running a Bb30 on my cross bike with Sram XX cranks and Wheels mnfc adapters. Works great without creaking. Very stiff. Get the Park Bb30 tool if youre going to DIY. Tried installing first set of bearings with homemade hs press. Worked ok but so much easier with proper tools.


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## Bridgey

I'm done with BB30. Not only do they eventually creak, but often the BB30 steel bottom bracket comes loose from the carbon. Not sure why, perhaps they don't put enough carbon around them. But I've had 2 frames from separate manufacturers where it did the same thing. I'm sticking with BSA.


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## Zachariah

Bridgey said:


> I'm done with BB30. Not only do they eventually creak, but often the BB30 steel bottom bracket comes loose from the carbon. Not sure why, perhaps they don't put enough carbon around them. But I've had 2 frames from separate manufacturers where it did the same thing. I'm sticking with BSA.


Wow.....how odd. My creaking comes mostly from the crank bolts loosening. Torque them back down again, and the bike _*quietly*_ shoots forward at every crank rotation!


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## Horze

Zachariah said:


> Wow.....how odd. My creaking comes mostly from the crank bolts loosening. Torque them back down again, and the bike _*quietly*_ shoots forward at every crank rotation!


Ya, that's probably due to the chainstay over BB design. Not the BB spindle.
Even the comparatively undersized Octalink BB had a pretty stiff, acceleration boosting BB spindle. So more to do with frame in my view.
The other point raised was problems with BB in carbon frames. PF30 exists because it makes the solution of putting an alloy piece in the middle of it all easier (but it still doesn't solve a gaping problem!). It makes frame building easier. The alternative as manufacturers have been doing for some time is epoxying a threaded sleeve directly in the frame for the BB and using a conventional threaded BB.
I'm no longer too keen on BB30 in alloy frames either.

These issues haven't quite been addressed properly, certainly without any long-term view on testing nor any emphasis on durability, because the intended use and market for such products is very limited. If you buy a carbon frame, you essentially buy a new bike/frame every year and discard the old. Pro-bikes are use for the season and discard.


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## ultimobici

pudntane said:


> awesome! you guys really know your bottom brackets! what about BBright? how do you rate it? i'm not a wrench by no stretch of the imagination. but still, the _idea_ of it sounds impressive to me. your thoughts?


The idea is a perfect example of a solution to a problem that doesn't exist. BBWrong would be more apt.


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## ipaul

.40AET said:


> Maybe someone can offer me some suggestions.
> 
> The good: I broke my frame and received a sweet upgrade as a replacement.
> The bad, sortof: It has a BB30 shell and I have a relatively new crank with outboard bearings.
> 
> 
> 
> I could buy a new crank, the best that I've seen is the Sram s900 for $295. I can't find any BB30 cranks that have a 180mm arms and I'd like to stick with that.
> 
> I just started reading about the BB30 last night and have a lot of research to do. Looks like I need a new tool at the minimum.
> 
> Thanks,


I'm in market for a new frame and the ones I like are all BB30. Here's what I'll be going with for my GXP Red cranks, if I don't end up just getting a BB30 crank. There's options for other cranks as well.

KCNC/RWC BB30 to GXP BB Adapter with Enduro Bearings


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## deviousalex

I hate to bring up a dead thread, but....

Do BB30 cranks work with FP30 frames? Do you just need a FP30 BB?


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## PJ352

deviousalex said:


> I hate to bring up a dead thread, but....
> 
> Do BB30 cranks work with FP30 frames? Do you just need a FP30 BB?


I think you mean PF30 (Press fit).

Here's an article on the topic, below it, info that I think will answer your question.

FEATURES: THE BOTTOM BRACKET BREAKDOWN

BB30/PF30:
• Shell width: 68mm
• Spindle diameter: 30mm
• Notes: Press Fit 30 (PF30) is a variant of BB30 and, while it uses the same shell width and crank compatibility, the shell diameter is slightly larger. Rather than bearings pressing directly into the frame like BB30, they press into nylon cups, which are then pressed into the frame. This gives more tolerance during manufacturing and allows the use of full carbon bottom bracket shells without any alloy inserts. A BB30 crank is only compatible with a BB30/PF30 shell. FSA and SRAM make BB30 cranks; Shimano does not, but FSA and Wheels Manufacturing make adapters that allow a 24mm spindle to be used in a BB30 shell. Campagnolo make adapters for their Ultra-Torque crank to work.


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## screem3r

I also hate to hijack this but it's the closest thread to the question I have. I'm in the planning process of building a new bike. I just bought a full SRAM Kit-in-a-box online that is PF30. I haven't decided on what frame I want to go with at this point in time (except that it will be carbon). Do I need to look for a frame that's specifically meant for PF 30 or will it fit on any frame? Thanks!


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## PJ352

screem3r said:


> I also hate to hijack this but it's the closest thread to the question I have. I'm in the planning process of building a new bike. I just bought a full SRAM Kit-in-a-box online that is PF30. I haven't decided on what frame I want to go with at this point in time (except that it will be carbon). Do I need to look for a frame that's specifically meant for PF 30 or will it fit on any frame? Thanks!


I think it would be best to write SRAM customer service and ask that question, but if the kit specifically states that it's for PF30, then yes, you need to get a frame that's PF30. 

See my previous post - "notes" states the reason why.


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## carbonLORD

Spoken like a person with ZERO experience.


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## msrothwe

screem3r said:


> I also hate to hijack this but it's the closest thread to the question I have. I'm in the planning process of building a new bike. I just bought a full SRAM Kit-in-a-box online that is PF30. I haven't decided on what frame I want to go with at this point in time (except that it will be carbon). Do I need to look for a frame that's specifically meant for PF 30 or will it fit on any frame? Thanks!


If you get a bb30 frame, you just need the bb30 bottom bracket, everything else will be fine. If go for a pf30 frame though, the install of the BB is way easier.


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## kiwisimon

PJ352 said:


> Here's a link to some info on the topic. Scroll to the bottom for an explanation of Press Fit 30.
> http://www.parktool.com/blog/calvins-corner/the-new-world-of-bottom-brackets


here is the new link for that BB primer
Park Tool Co. » ParkTool Blog » Bottom Bracket Standards

this one is pretty simple, I could understand it.
http://problemsolversbike.com/files/tech/Bottom_Bracket_Standards_Reference.pdf


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## kiwisimon

carbonLORD said:


> Spoken like a person with ZERO experience.


So point out where he is mistaken rather than offering nothing constructive. WTF what the point of those 7 words?


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