# Super Pro...



## 2ndGen (Oct 10, 2008)

I've been watching a lot of the races lately. 

I've noticed that the pros have their strengths which are taken advantage of in a team environment. 

Are there any riders that are "jack-of-all-trades" type riders?

Riders that can climb/sprint/etc...all in one package? 

Has there ever been a rider that could do all things greatly?


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## backinthesaddle (Nov 22, 2006)

Really? You're serious?


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## 2ndGen (Oct 10, 2008)

backinthesaddle said:


> Really? You're serious?


Is there a reason why this couldn't/wouldn't be a serious question?


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## Spin42 (Sep 8, 2004)

I recall Thor Husovd tearing it up a climb at the TdF last year to clinch the Green jersey.
Most sprinters can climb well enough when they need too. Look at how much climbing there is in Flanders and San Remo. Fact is, they don't get paid to blast up climbs in week long races or grand tours. I would consider Valverde a very well rounded rider.


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## roadboy (Apr 1, 2003)

Eddy Merckx!!!!


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## 2ndGen (Oct 10, 2008)

roadboy said:


> Eddy Merckx!!!!


I never saw him ride, but he who I was thinking about when I heard some commentators talking about guys who can "do it all".


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## 2ndGen (Oct 10, 2008)

Spin42 said:


> I recall Thor Husovd tearing it up a climb at the TdF last year to clinch the Green jersey.
> Most sprinters can climb well enough when they need too. Look at how much climbing there is in Flanders and San Remo. Fact is, they don't get paid to blast up climbs in week long races or grand tours. I would consider Valverde a very well rounded rider.


I can't imagine riding for 7 hours at full blast like those guys do. It boggles my mind.


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## mik (Jan 15, 2008)

Eddy Merckx, Sean Kelly, Gregg LeMond, Moreno Argentin, Maurizio Fondriest, and on and on and on..........There are plenty!!!


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## godot (Feb 3, 2004)

Pro cycling has become specialized. There are a number of "jack of all trade riders" that can sprint, climb and TT well. They just can't hang with guys that focus on one particular area. Generally speaking - sprinters can't climb, and pure climbers can't sprint or TT. GT contenders don't care about sprinting as the time gaps on flat stages are minimal unless something goes really wrong in the peloton, and even then they can make up tons of time during the next mtn stage.

Best name that comes to my mind as an all-arounder is Jens Voigt. 

Thinking of current riders only - Eddy was the man


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## mik (Jan 15, 2008)

Laurent Jalabert, Jan Ullrich, Abraham Olano.........


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## 2ndGen (Oct 10, 2008)

godot said:


> Pro cycling has become specialized. There are a number of "jack of all trade riders" that can sprint, climb and TT well. They just can't hang with guys that focus on one particular area. Generally speaking - sprinters can't climb, and pure climbers can't sprint or TT. GT contenders don't care about sprinting as the time gaps on flat stages are minimal unless something goes really wrong in the peloton, and even then they can make up tons of time during the next mtn stage.
> 
> Best name that comes to my mind as an all-arounder is Jens Voigt.
> 
> Thinking of current riders only - Eddy was the man


Thanks for the responses guys.

And Godot, that's how I'm learning about riders. 
I keep hearing the same names in certain stages of races.


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## mik (Jan 15, 2008)

Stephen Roche, Nicolas Roche........


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## 2ndGen (Oct 10, 2008)

mik said:


> Stephen Roche, Nicolas Roche........


Keep'em coming mik! 

And thanks. 

:thumbsup:


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## rocco (Apr 30, 2005)

mik said:


> Eddy Merckx, Sean Kelly, Gregg LeMond, Moreno Argentin, Maurizio Fondriest, and on and on and on..........There are plenty!!!



Hinault could win sprint once in a while.


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## Dwaynebarry (Mar 16, 2004)

Seems like a lot of the riders folks are naming, while maybe fast finishers out of a small group, would not stand much of chance at all against the best sprinters. Same with climbing, some of them while they can climb respectably in certain situations wouldn't stand much of chance at all against pure climbers.

Hard to think of a rider who can win a TT, mountain top finish and a bunch sprint when the best riders in those disciplines are also in the race.

I would say Valverde probably comes the closest.


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## ultimobici (Jul 16, 2005)

Dwaynebarry said:


> Seems like a lot of the riders folks are naming, while maybe fast finishers out of a small group, would not stand much of chance at all against the best sprinters. Same with climbing, some of them while they can climb respectably in certain situations wouldn't stand much of chance at all against pure climbers.
> 
> Hard to think of a rider who can win a TT, mountain top finish and a bunch sprint when the best riders in those disciplines are also in the race.
> 
> I would say Valverde probably comes the closest.


But, dare I say, that opens a very big can of worms!

I don't think that kind of rider has existed at all for a very long time. Merckx was the greatest but rarely mixed it in field sprints as they didn't work out i the same way as they do now since the Saeco Red Train was born.


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## iliveonnitro (Feb 19, 2006)

Currently it is Valverde, and that's probably it.


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## gamara (May 20, 2002)

Nobody has mentioned Jens Voight. Mr Jack of all trades.


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## waldo425 (Sep 22, 2008)

gamara said:


> Nobody has mentioned Jens Voight. Mr Jack of all trades.


Oh he has been mentioned 



godot said:


> Best name that comes to my mind as an all-arounder is Jens Voigt.


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## spade2you (May 12, 2009)

iliveonnitro said:


> Currently it is Valverde, and that's probably it.


No Boasson Hagen? 

No doubt that Merckx is probably the greatest cyclist of all time, but it would be interesting to see how he'd do against the specialists of today. 

Given the understanding of training and tactics, I think all arounders is probably more limiting than specializing in area or two. Even the pros have finite abilities, so it might be nice for a sprinter to work on time trialing, but it's all about winning, not the various principles of training weaknesses, etc.


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## Timbuctoo (Apr 23, 2009)

Peter Sagan is looking like he might be a good jack of all trades in the future. I'll be following his career with interest.


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## tommyrhodes (Aug 19, 2009)

Tommy Rhodes is a phenomonal all arounder.


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## iliveonnitro (Feb 19, 2006)

spade2you said:


> No Boasson Hagen?
> 
> No doubt that Merckx is probably the greatest cyclist of all time, but it would be interesting to see how he'd do against the specialists of today.
> 
> Given the understanding of training and tactics, I think all arounders is probably more limiting than specializing in area or two. Even the pros have finite abilities, so it might be nice for a sprinter to work on time trialing, but it's all about winning, not the various principles of training weaknesses, etc.


EBH is still too young and unproven. A lot of people may compare him to Merckx, but he has yet to win anything that would allow him to be remembered in 10 years.


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## pretender (Sep 18, 2007)

Fabian Cancellara
http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/could-cancellara-win-the-tour-de-france


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## stevesbike (Jun 3, 2002)

Lemond trained his sprint year round (Tuesdays were sprint days for those old enough to train using his book) and could sprint with the best, beating Kelly in the 89 worlds. 

L. Jalabert, a sprinter who became an all-rounder.

Sean Kelly - lots of top 5 grand tour finishes. 1985 4th in the Tour and winner of green jersey.


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## PhatTalc (Jul 21, 2004)

stevesbike said:


> Lemond trained his sprint year round (Tuesdays were sprint days for those old enough to train using his book) and could sprint with the best, beating Kelly in the 89 worlds.
> 
> L. Jalabert, a sprinter who became an all-rounder.
> 
> Sean Kelly - lots of top 5 grand tour finishes. 1985 4th in the Tour and winner of green jersey.


Kelly won the Vuelta one year ('88), Paris Nice 7 times, won 4 of the monuments at least once (for a total of 9). He was awesome.


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## ultimobici (Jul 16, 2005)

stevesbike said:


> Lemond trained his sprint year round (Tuesdays were sprint days for those old enough to train using his book) and could sprint with the best, beating Kelly in the 89 worlds.


Looking at their respective bikes that day Lemond had the advantage as Kelly rued the choice of a 13 up freewheel. 

That said Lemond's results in the mid 80's was impressive as he was placed consistently in the top 5 of many of the monuments as well as winning stage races and getting on the podium in two Grand Tours not to mention his record at the Worlds.

But I think that the day of the allrounder of the likes of Kelly, Hinault, Lemond etc died in the late 80's as riders specialized more and more, ironically something that Lemond was in the vanguard of.


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## bigmig19 (Jun 27, 2008)

George Hincapie! He is/was a far better sprinter than some of the people mentioned (some of them just had a "little kick" in them.. like Jan. Jalabert, Valverde), He was a very very good climber for several years, good one day guy. Just doesnt compare on the palmares end of things. Not comparing him to merx, Kelley etc... but cetainly Jalabert. George can/could TT with the best as well.
I wonder if lance could sprint well if he wanted to (working on it on tuesdays). He certainly is/was near the best at everything else.


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## den bakker (Nov 13, 2004)

bigmig19 said:


> George Hincapie! He is/was a far better sprinter than some of the people mentioned (some of them just had a "little kick" in them.. like Jan. Jalabert, Valverde), He was a very very good climber for several years, good one day guy. Just doesnt compare on the palmares end of things. Not comparing him to merx, Kelley etc... but cetainly Jalabert. George can/could TT with the best as well.
> I wonder if lance could sprint well if he wanted to (working on it on tuesdays). He certainly is/was near the best at everything else.


sure. Jalabert was TT world champion,winner of a couple of classics, numerous one week stage races and a total of 25 GT stage wins. You are absolutely right Hincapies palmeres don't compare :thumbsup: Neither does his sprint for that matter. Jalabert was a sprinter first and foremost and evolved into a one week stage racer.


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## stevesbike (Jun 3, 2002)

Jalabert is only one of two riders to have won both the points competition (green jersey) and climber's jersey at the Tour, plus world champion in the time trial - pretty well-rounded. Anyone who could come back from his 1994 Tour crash (youtube it) deserves a lot of respect as well. Plus, in retirement he's become a decent ironman distance triathelete (9:19 at Kona).

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pya6...41CA5412&playnext_from=PL&playnext=1&index=11 Jalabert is the rider in the pink Once jersey spitting out his teeth...


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## PhatTalc (Jul 21, 2004)

den bakker said:


> sure. Jalabert was TT world champion,winner of a couple of classics, numerous one week stage races and a total of 25 GT stage wins. You are absolutely right Hincapies palmeres don't compare :thumbsup: Neither does his sprint for that matter. Jalabert was a sprinter first and foremost and evolved into a one week stage racer.


Didn't Jalabert also win the Vuelta, and all three Jersey's at that Vuelta?


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## bigmig19 (Jun 27, 2008)

Requisite George defense:

Do you remember George waaaay back at the beginning? He probably could have concentrated on sprinting and been a regular guy in the mix. Jerseys, ESPECIALLY green and polka dot ones, are frequently given to the guy who specifically goes for them (nothin wrong with that, just sayin). I dont want to beat that horse again, but if George as a member of Postal had the freedom to run for every polka dot sign he saw he could easily get that jersey. See it doesnt always go to the pantanis (dots) and Cavendishs (Green) of the world, just the guy who has nothing to lose. Long story short, George could have climbed with JAJA in my opinion, probably sprinted with him, dam close to the same TT ability, but woefully behind in Palmares for sure. I'll argue those points with anyone. Careers are a funny thing. George probably gave away some of his for others thats for sure.
My only point i guess is to the op, I think george is one guy who _currently rides _who can/could do a lot of things pretty well. Not too many 4-way guys these days. Valverde?


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## den bakker (Nov 13, 2004)

bigmig19 said:


> Requisite George defense:
> 
> Do you remember George waaaay back at the beginning? He probably could have concentrated on sprinting and been a regular guy in the mix. Jerseys, ESPECIALLY green and polka dot ones, are frequently given to the guy who specifically goes for them (nothin wrong with that, just sayin). I dont want to beat that horse again, but if George as a member of Postal had the freedom to run for every polka dot sign he saw he could easily get that jersey. See it doesnt always go to the pantanis (dots) and Cavendishs (Green) of the world, just the guy who has nothing to lose. Long story short, George could have climbed with JAJA in my opinion, probably sprinted with him, dam close to the same TT ability, but woefully behind in Palmares for sure. I'll argue those points with anyone. Careers are a funny thing. George probably gave away some of his for others thats for sure.
> My only point i guess is to the op, I think george is one guy who _currently rides _who can/could do a lot of things pretty well. Not too many 4-way guys these days. Valverde?


Well hypothetical Universes are nice in that one can just make reality as one would like. 
I'm sure if I had chosen differently I could easily have been banging Scarlet Johanson between posts here. 
"but if George as a member of Postal had the freedom to run for every polka dot sign he saw he could easily get that jersey." That's some Cavendish worthy trash talk


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## AJL (Jul 9, 2009)

bigmig19 said:


> Requisite George defense:
> Do you remember George waaaay back at the beginning?


No but I've read about GH's past and he definitely had a good sprint - he's still above average. He's a good 'tour' all rounder, but he just doesn't come close enough to the bar set by others already mentioned. That said, as a rider I like George anyway - he's had a great career.


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## uzziefly (Jul 15, 2006)

Alejandro Valverde Belmonte and Edvald Boasson Hagen (will be that way perhaps in a few years) are 2 I can think of straightaway.

If only Alberto Contador can sprint. Or if only FC can climb much better than now. Other than that, nope no one else in a way. 

George Hincapie was sorta that way before but he's lost some engine.


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## ultimobici (Jul 16, 2005)

bigmig19 said:


> Requisite George defense:
> 
> Do you remember George waaaay back at the beginning? He probably could have concentrated on sprinting and been a regular guy in the mix. Jerseys, ESPECIALLY green and polka dot ones, are frequently given to the guy who specifically goes for them (nothin wrong with that, just sayin). I dont want to beat that horse again, but if George as a member of Postal had the freedom to run for every polka dot sign he saw he could easily get that jersey. See it doesnt always go to the pantanis (dots) and Cavendishs (Green) of the world, just the guy who has nothing to lose. Long story short, George could have climbed with JAJA in my opinion, probably sprinted with him, dam close to the same TT ability, but woefully behind in Palmares for sure. I'll argue those points with anyone. Careers are a funny thing. George probably gave away some of his for others thats for sure.
> My only point i guess is to the op, I think george is one guy who _currently rides _who can/could do a lot of things pretty well. Not too many 4-way guys these days. Valverde?


Look up GH's palmares. They are very thin on wins or podiums of any note as a sprinter. Then look at the other riders mentioned - Jalabert, Kelly, Lemond etc. Their palmares have races that are actually of note.


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## uzziefly (Jul 15, 2006)

ultimobici said:


> Look up GH's palmares. They are very thin on wins or podiums of any note as a sprinter. Then look at the other riders mentioned - Jalabert, Kelly, Lemond etc. Their palmares have races that are actually of note.


Still, it doesn't say that he couldn't sprint, climb and TT pretty alright as well as ride those classics races and always be there or so.

Basically, I'd list him as one of those riders who could do it all - not necessarily very well and win all the time, but he was pretty good nonetheless.


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## Creakyknees (Sep 21, 2003)

wow, the GH fans are out. 

hey, I'm also one of those guys who can do it all, and I also have a thin palmares, so I should be in consideration also.


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## ultimobici (Jul 16, 2005)

uzziefly said:


> Still, it doesn't say that he couldn't sprint, climb and TT pretty alright as well as ride those classics races and always be there or so.
> 
> Basically, I'd list him as one of those riders who could do it all - not necessarily very well and win all the time, but he was pretty good nonetheless.


An allrounder is by definition a rider who wins on all terrains. Valverde is such a rider, so was Kelly, so was Jalabert. Hincapie does not fulfil the criteria as he has not got the record of wins to support a claim. 
I agree he has been knocking on the door for a decade and a half but his wins are not anywhere near regular enough nor prestigious enough to warrant the term allrounder.
That's not to say he's merely pack filler either. I would love to have seen what he really was capable of but, as many riders before him found, he was better rewarded riding in the service of others than for himself most of the time. Consequently, he either had to reign in his ambition or was spent when the opportunity came along.
If we were discussing ultimate Domestiques Deluxes, then GH has to be in the top 5, no question.


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## PhatTalc (Jul 21, 2004)

ultimobici said:


> An allrounder is by definition a rider who wins on all terrains. Valverde is such a rider, so was Kelly, so was Jalabert. Hincapie does not fulfil the criteria as he has not got the record of wins to support a claim.
> I agree he has been knocking on the door for a decade and a half but his wins are not anywhere near regular enough nor prestigious enough to warrant the term allrounder.
> That's not to say he's merely pack filler either. I would love to have seen what he really was capable of but, as many riders before him found, he was better rewarded riding in the service of others than for himself most of the time. Consequently, he either had to reign in his ambition or was spent when the opportunity came along.
> If we were discussing ultimate Domestiques Deluxes, then GH has to be in the top 5, no question.


The definition of an all rounder is someone who does not specialise - a guy who is good at climbing, sprinting, stage racing and one-day racing. A great all rounder is someone who could win big races in all disciplines. But I agree with you other than that.

To Bigmig19 and the rest, Hincapie is not in Jaja's league. Jaja was a world TT champ, a grand tour winner, winner of some of the monuments, won many GT jerseys, one day races etc.


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## ultimobici (Jul 16, 2005)

PhatTalc said:


> The definition of an all rounder is someone who does not specialise - a guy who is good at climbing, sprinting, stage racing and one-day racing. A great all rounder is someone who could win big races in all disciplines. But I agree with you other than that.


Isn't that what I was saying? :wink5:


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## uzziefly (Jul 15, 2006)

Creakyknees said:


> wow, the GH fans are out.
> 
> hey, I'm also one of those guys who can do it all, and I also have a thin palmares, so I should be in consideration also.


Only if your knees don't creak.


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## uzziefly (Jul 15, 2006)

ultimobici said:


> An allrounder is by definition a rider who wins on all terrains. Valverde is such a rider, so was Kelly, so was Jalabert. Hincapie does not fulfil the criteria as he has not got the record of wins to support a claim.
> I agree he has been knocking on the door for a decade and a half but his wins are not anywhere near regular enough nor prestigious enough to warrant the term allrounder.
> That's not to say he's merely pack filler either. I would love to have seen what he really was capable of but, as many riders before him found, he was better rewarded riding in the service of others than for himself most of the time. Consequently, he either had to reign in his ambition or was spent when the opportunity came along.
> If we were discussing ultimate Domestiques Deluxes, then GH has to be in the top 5, no question.


Oh I'm not actually saying he's in the same league, I'm just saying he can do it all (or could perhaps) pretty well and not many can even say that. That's all. :thumbsup:


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## Mike T. (Feb 3, 2004)

PhatTalc said:


> Kelly won the Vuelta one year ('88), Paris Nice 7 times, won 4 of the monuments at least once (for a total of 9). He was awesome.


He was arguably the best rider who was never a world champion.


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