# Previously a Runner



## Used2Run (Sep 5, 2012)

Hey all. As my name on here implies, I used to be a runner and am switching over to the bike. I was a 5k runner so I figured that this would be an easy transition. 2-3 weeks in, I realized that my quads are not up to par but my cardiovascular system is pretty good (I was running 70 mile weeks when I just switched to the bike). What do I need to know about training on a bike as a former runner in order to start in the right place? I have been riding 25-30 miles a day without much trouble with a long ride of 40 miles so far. I have been averaging around 17.5-18mph by myself if that means much. 

Thanks for the help!


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## vetboy (Oct 11, 2005)

Your question and the info you provide are too broad to answer succinctly. What are your goals on the bike? Do you plan to race, participate in fondos or just keep up on a local club ride? How much history do you have on the bike? My first thought when you mentioned the quads is maybe your cadence is too low - many newbs grind in a gear that's way too big. What cadence are you maintaining?

If you're a complete bike newb, then the easiest advise is to ride as much as possible for the first few months. Once you've identified some goals, you can start to focus the training as well.

If your not a bike newb, then some more info can help guide the advice.

Joe


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## bq_or_bust (Oct 27, 2007)

you're progressing exactly as a runner transitioning into cycling. running 70 mpw has made you into an aerobic monster and that pays off tons in cycling. it's easier on the body (no impact) to cycle so make sure you don't overtrain. you can get overuse injuries like iliotibial tibial band syndrome (itbs) just like in running. some follow the same maximum of 10% increase rule. i think your joints are good from the run miles. when i started cycling, everything i had was gone due to the time off, so i had to start @ the beginning.

it seems like you have enough base to understand if a position work or don't work. so i suggest you get a proper quality bike fit. the fit can give you dramatic results as well as prevent overuse injuries. a friend who just started cycling had 2 mph increase after raising his seat.

know your gearing. play around since a few gears overlap. i notice my "new to the sport" friends are sometimes in the wrong gear because they don't understand what the gears offer. for example, one was on the big ring & big cog going up a moderately steep hill. i got him to get into the smaller ring & smaller cog. the later allows for minor adjustments, while the earlier has none since you will probably need easier gears on a hill. 

i recommend playing with you gears so when you need to change a gear even in crisis mode, you can. i feel my gear change is better when i can unload the spin while quickly changing gears.

the 90 rpm theory is the same principle as the 180 footstrikes per minute in running. i try to follow this. in another thread, one person suggested going 60 rpm on a hill for the times you are trying to focus on strengthen. i could never get that low or at least i didn't want to. i saw my rpm @ 75-80 and i felt the effort. i usually try to be 90-100 rpm because i don't think i'm strong enough. i'm still working on this.


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## Used2Run (Sep 5, 2012)

*Thanks*

Vetboy-I want to kill it on the bike in some races this spring. I'm not sure about distance but I think it would be cool to do at least 1 century but that would be the extreme range of what I want to race. I'll stick to local stuff if I'm not that good but if I show some promise then it could be cool to get in a good race. I also have no experience on the bike. My cadence has averaged between 80-90 on the flats and I haven't counted it going uphills.

bq_or_bust-You ever post on letsrun? I recognize that name. Thanks for the more in depth answer and from your username, it sounds like you ran at least a few miles for a while  Getting my bike fitted is something I'm probably going to do. I have started riding some with an old team mate who apparently is a monster on the bike who works at a LBS who is helping me with things like bike fit and getting the right components and then a lighter bike after a while.


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## bq_or_bust (Oct 27, 2007)

Used2Run said:


> bq_or_bust-You ever post on letsrun? I recognize that name.


nope. i guess it's not such a unique name in the running forums, but, creative on the cycling forums.

good luck.


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## Doodlespeed (Aug 13, 2011)

These are all great tips for transitioning to biking. I noticed when I began riding that my running experience helped aerobically but not my strength. And you know that the key to getting better at any sport is training and practice. Finding the right cadence is like finding the right pace on a run. Get fit, its the best thing that helped me get faster and keep up with the guys on full carbon bikes.


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## BostonG (Apr 13, 2010)

You should know that that speed at that distance for a total newb on a solo ride is pretty friggin good. Then again, running 70 miles/week is pretty friggin good too so taking that into account, you're doing OK.

Jeez...lots of words that add up to nothin'. Maybe I should have left out the second sentence.


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## Duane Gran (Feb 3, 2004)

Since you mentioned that you want to race, there are two big things to anticipate coming from a running background:

1) The strongest person nearly always wins a foot race, but on a bike it is a combination of strength, luck and smarts. 

2) Some forms of adaptation can take up to five years to occur. You can train as hard as the next person, but years of experience manifest in a hundred small ways that may make them faster. I've seen podium finishing runners get frustrated at the long path of growth in upper-end cycling fitness.

Don't let that discourage you though. It is a blast. You'll also notice that people don't talk about posting PRs or stuff like that because the conditions are so rarely repeatable in any meaningful way. It is a social sport.


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## Used2Run (Sep 5, 2012)

*Woohoo*

I'm glad that I'm riding at a pretty good pace so far. That's reassuring. I've started riding with someone I ran with in high school and he's kicking my butt but, teaching me a lot. Hopefully after the winter is over and I upgrade from my heavy steel bike, I'll really start rolling.

Duane-I've noticed everybody I have ridden with is really nice and have read like 5 different times that beer is considered a currency among cyclists. Sadly I have celiacs and have given that up but I can make do with other drinks once in a while.


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## Crack Monkey (Apr 19, 2007)

Get out on some group rides. Solo rides are fine for training, but for bike racing, you need to comfortable riding in a tight group, drafting, etc. It will also get your body used to the quick changes in pace that occur within a bike race. Because of the aerodynamics in a peleton, bike racing is not a constant pace. As people try to make breaks, the peleton will speed up to reel them in, then settle, then chase another attack, etc. Then the last few laps (for a crit), the pace will generally ramp up significantly, as teams try to position their best riders for the final sprint.


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## Lazy Spinner (Aug 30, 2009)

I transitioned from running to cycling and it took about 2-3 years to actually get good on the bike. Here's what I learned:

I could climb and TT better than a lot of long time riders because running puts you at the very high end of your aerobic capacity often. Also, running being a solo sport made me mentally tougher in these more individually focused pursuits.

Attacks in cycling are far more brutal than anything that you experience in running. If a 10,000 meter race on the track were like a road race in cycling, then you better be able to drop a 55-57 second 400 every third lap or you will not place. A field sprint? That's like trying to race ten Usain Bolt's when you're already turned inside out.

Team tactics were a whole new world. Unlike cross country where team racing still boils down to a race of attrition between individuals, a well organized team in cycling can beat you by delivering a "weaker" rider with sprint ability to a spot 200 meters from the finish to jump you or they can screw your best laid plans by keeping you marked and harrassed all day.

It will take a long time to convert your legs. Be patient. All the aerobic capacity in the world means squat if you cannot generate enough power to the pedals. Getting powerful cycling legs will screw your ability to run big time.

You will have to learn how to cooperate with your adversaries on the road. A strong runner can take off into wind, rain, rolling terrain, etc. without paying a huge penalty because it boils down to who is the strongest. On the bike, doing such things is almost suicidal. Very few solo breakaways succeed. You need to make deals and alliances on the road, take your turns on the front, and be patient while waiting for your chance. Running is simple and brutish, cycling is much more cerebral.

If you start riding with a team, politics and pecking order come into play. Wrap your head around sacrificing personal glory right away because cycling is very much an apprentice system, even in the lower categories. You have to earn shots at glory by working for others along the way.

Get involved in cyclocross. Of all the disciplines, this is the easiest for a runner to master because of its short intense events and a racer's ability to fight pain. The racing is individual in nature and it is redline from the gun. If you are good at cross country, then I imagine that you will like and excel at CX. It's also a great way to learn better bike handling and that will lead to better and more confident road riding.

Cycling is a beautiful sport. Welcome!


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## dgeesaman (Jun 9, 2010)

Duane Gran said:


> 1) The strongest person nearly always wins a foot race, but on a bike it is a combination of strength, luck and smarts.


Unless you were a really dumpy charity 5k runner, you're familiar with racing tactics. Due to the effort differences of drafting, it's like a running race into a steep headwind the whole way. So yes, aside from time trialing, every race is a tactical race. You can't just grind out negative splits and outpace everyone else (unless your name is Merckx).



> 2) Some forms of adaptation can take up to five years to occur. You can train as hard as the next person, but years of experience manifest in a hundred small ways that may make them faster. I've seen podium finishing runners get frustrated at the long path of growth in upper-end cycling fitness.


I'm a past runner as well however my 70mpw training is over 10 years ago. So I have added weight tossed into my mix, but that's another thread.

You will have another very key asset as a higher mileage runner - good BMI. What you do in training will add mass where you need it rather than slowly wait for unneeded mass to melt away. Your quad and hip flexor strength is probably your biggest liability at the moment, I know mine was. I found that doing spin classes or trainer work that included standing spins was very challenging for me and due to the constant torque of the spin bike, very developmental. (It saves you from the vertical pumping of your body weight that you can get away with while climbing a steep hill). Plain old weight training for quad and hip strength is good too if your knees can handle it. In the beginning your quads will be working anaerobic and basically you've got to develop them to do serious work without constantly blowing through the lactic threshold.

Just as it's been mentioned already, development takes time and hurrying it can stop you cold - IT band and patellar tendon issues suck and are a very real risk if you train to go from zero to hero. Coaching would make a lot of sense, and if your running PRs are any good I'm sure you'll get interest from any teams at the appropriate level.

Enjoy the fact that cycling is a relatively social sport (although I spent a lot of time on distance runs talking with teammates), plus you can cover a lot more ground, carry food and drink, and even a cell phone in case you get in a pinch. You will want good quality equipment however be warned many very expensive items purchased by cyclists will offer very limited rewards (given how they are used) aside from looking elite.

Dave


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## Used2Run (Sep 5, 2012)

dgeesaman

I never saw the point in paying money to run a race unless it was going to get me into other races for free later on. I definitely wasn't a charity 5k guy. Never ran with a fuel belt. I would take a Gu with me on runs longer than 15 miles and just run away from my house until I could loop back. My family saw me 7-8 miles from my house a few times and tried to talk me into not running so far (wait until they hear where I can go on the bike!). I've run 15:44 (in a really tactical conference championship) and then 4:11 (1500m off of 5k training) and 27:10 for 8k cross country. I wasn't great but, I could beat more people than I lost to.

I've really been considering some squats and dead lifts 2xweek. They would definitely build up my quads faster than riding and I do have a background in exercise physiology so I know the weight:rep ratios I would need to do to first build quads then endurance in them. 

What did you do to help with quad fatigue when getting out of the saddle? I can't pedal up hills as fast as the guy I ride with when he lets me so I have to stand up but can only do that for 30-45 seconds.


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## dgeesaman (Jun 9, 2010)

I know, 70mpw is relatively serious training plan for someone doing 5k quality speedwork. I was a 5k/10k guy too, a 5k training plan with 70mpw usually included 3-4 high intensity workouts and a race. I'm a charity ride/run guy now, I don't have that kind of time to dedicate to training, and being 35 now I know PRs are completely out of the question even if I had unlimited time. I always found PRs to be motivating for me as a runner. I mostly ride with the Leukemia and Lymphoma Society's Team In Training program.

I'm not sure whether squats are better than cycling strength exercises. They're certainly harder on your joints with greater risk of injury. I'm not saying you should avoid them, but for me that would be a major consideration.

I found that wall sits and standing climbing drills will really build strength. The right spin class with standing climb drills will kick your ass, even if most velominati shudder at the thought. On the bike you shouldn't need to stand for 30-45 seconds straight very often, but as an exercise it's really good. When climbing a hill for speed you should vary standing with seating pedaling to help avoid overworking any one source of power. **

** I say this in great generality, as climbing technique is personal and unique. However by following this approach you will develop both kinds of climbing so that you can uncover your best potential.

I found that I had to take care to not burn out my relatively weak quads early in the ride. I never maxed my aerobic but two good climbs or strong runs into a headwind would leave my quads toasted. That's getting better, finally. You'll want to train on that weakness and manage it as you compete. It helped me to get to know appropriate cadence and judge speed on my quads, not the speedo.


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## Used2Run (Sep 5, 2012)

Many good points. I'll look into some climbing specific exercises and then find some cycling specific exercises in general. Once I get through the winter and get a better base, I'll look into getting a coach or joining a club. It would be awesome if I could find a team to ride with after a few months. I at least have a good training partner that I ride with a day or two a week that's teaching me technical stuff for cross now letting me tag a long on a few workouts to see how they are structured on the bike.


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## tom_h (May 6, 2008)

Used2Run said:


> ...
> I've really been considering some squats and dead lifts 2xweek. They would definitely build up my quads faster than riding and I do have a background in exercise physiology so I know the weight:rep ratios I would need to do to first build quads then endurance in them. ...


IMO, counter-productive. Ability to do low-rep, high force resistance training won't help much, except to "jump" during a track match sprint or 500m TT.

A trained amateur cyclist at threshhold power might be only be averaging 40 lbs or so force per leg per pedal stroke -- but doing over 5000 reps per hr @ 90 cadence.

You're pushing off your entire body weight with each stride when running, so it's not bulging leg muscles, per se, that will improve your cycling performance. Different muscles are used in running vs cycling, so as your muscles adapt to cycling you'll get faster (but it won't feel any easier!).

Hard uphill cycling can also put a surprisingly large strain on your back and "core" muscles. Some basic "core" work will help most cyclists develop more power and minimize injuries. 

This guy (former domestic pro) outlines some simple core strength routines:
http://www.ccbracing.com/content/mt-washington-hillclimb-case-study
The dude is about 150 lbs and can output a phenomenal 380 watts during a 52 minute, steep hill climb.


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## Used2Run (Sep 5, 2012)

That guy is pretty intense. I can definitely respect his training and the training of many cyclists. Most seem much more hardcore than many runners and most hobby joggers you see at races each weekend! His core workout is pretty easy. We did way more than 7 minutes/day at school. I expected him to have more hip flexor work in there.

I'll think twice about some power leg work before I do it and I'm definitely going to start reading up on training. Right now, I'm doing some cx races so I'm just really working on technique and some shorter intervals on the cross bike. I'm starting some longer and harder stuff that resembles training for a 10k or cross country race (stuff like 5-6x5min, 30-40min threshold stuff, and some sprints to work on turnover).


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## DCash (Jun 20, 2012)

Most the physical stuff has been covered. So:

Join a team now. Most shops have teams so ask your buddy about his. Teams get discounts. Discounts on bikes, discounts on clothes, discounts on labor. If you're going to take this seriously you're going to need all three. Most teams start training and order their kits pretty early in the year(mine in November).

Not all teams are created equal. You will be starting as a CAT 5 so you want a team that has several riders in your class. How many races does the team do? Will you have teammates and support in the races you want do? Does team practice fit your scedule? How much are dues? How much discount and what shop do they use? Do they split winnings? Race entry reimbursement? And most importantly: Do I want to ride with these people for the next year?

Ride with every team you can find. It will help you find one that fits and it will make you faster.

Regarding the celiac: Lakefront New Grist has a nice spiced flavor to it and is gluten free. New Planet Brewing is owned by a guy who is celiac so they have many offerings, but currently limited distribution. Most ciders are gluten free.


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## Used2Run (Sep 5, 2012)

DCAsh,

Thanks for the heads up on looking for a team. Riding with a team would be awesome as it's not super exciting riding by myself most days. I'm either sticking around town and looking for a decent job or heading off to grad school in the spring (they have a club team and a lot of riders where I would go) so I'll look into clubs here and there. 

New Grist is awesome! They make my favorite gluten free beer and I'll look into finding the spiced flavor. Fox Barrel Blackberry Pear cider is really good and so is Magners.


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