# Another tire thread (tubular)



## grodo (Aug 1, 2007)

Hi all-
So, as the season winds down for most, I'd love to read some late updated reviews/opinions on tubular setups. Yes, I'm already thinking about next year! I'm particularly interested in the PDX, but am afraid it might be 'too much' for drier conditions. Does it make a good all arounder? Also, why are they more expensive than FMBs or Dugasts? FMB Super Mud looks interesting too. Maybe as a front only? 

My tires 2010 and 2011 - all sew-ups: 
34 Fangos on old Zipp 303s. I rode these in 95% of my races. Fast tires and great all-arounders. At right pressure (28frt/30rr-175lbs), they do well in everything except sticky mud. Use caution on wet grass turns. 2.5 year on this tire, will likely replace next year.

Wife: 
Rode Gommaitalia Magnums 32 (Grifo treads) on Vuelta Superlight? AL rims. (25-27frt/27-28rr-130lbs) She loves these tires in all conditions but greasy mud. Had some trouble with front sliding out when slick. She likes to take corners fast (and does) so I'm thinking maybe a more aggressive tread in front. 

Muddy day/pit wheels:
Tufo Cubus (not flexus) on old GL330 wheels. Seems pretty good in mud, only a few uses. In sticky/peanut buttery mud, they definitely clogged up pretty good. Nowhere near as supple as the Challenge or Gommaitalias - noticeable ride quality difference. Much stiffer feel at same pressures. One thing I really liked - they were super easy to glue on straight!

Anyway, I just dig talking tires. We'd be perfectly fine keeping everything exactly the same for next year, but it's fun stuff to talk about on an otherwise boring day. Thanks-


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## Kram (Jan 28, 2004)

I'll be looking for all-rounders next year. My Fangos are on their 3rd year and are wearing a bit thin. I love them for all-rounders and have been getting braver with lower psi; rode about 27 rear and 24 front last race on a pretty varied course (deep mud to asphalt) and they were great. I also have a pr of Rhinos and Conti speed tubies; the conti's don't have a great feel but they have good side knobs and roll great. It's hard not to chose another set of Fangos again esp since the new ones are 320tpi.


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## Gripped (Nov 27, 2002)

Kram said:


> I'll be looking for all-rounders next year. My Fangos are on their 3rd year and are wearing a bit thin. I love them for all-rounders and have been getting braver with lower psi; rode about 27 rear and 24 front last race on a pretty varied course (deep mud to asphalt) and they were great. I also have a pr of Rhinos and Conti speed tubies; the conti's don't have a great feel but they have good side knobs and roll great. It's hard not to chose another set of Fangos again esp since the new ones are 320tpi.


I'm buying Challenge PDX tubulars. I absolutely love the clinchers. They rolled well during our mid-week workouts which were on grass -- dry to damp to wet. Plus, the dude who I was dueling with the most during the season ran PDX's tubeless and he was flying through the sloppy stuff.


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## Beltway_Bonked (Nov 5, 2004)

+1 on the PDX clinchers - will run the tubies next year. As good as they are on grass/mud, I also though the tread rolled better on asphalt than my Mud2s.


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## Kram (Jan 28, 2004)

But $120 for clinchers? RLY? I can get FMB or Dugast for less than that. Will they really make me that fast:idea:


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## wibly wobly (Apr 23, 2009)

A couple of guys around my neck of the woods were riding the Clement tubies and they seemed to be a little fragile. The casing is made (pretty sure) by Tufo but, they're not nearly as thick so they can get cut much easier. The clincher version for me has been great this year even though there was basically no mud.


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## simonaway427 (Jul 12, 2010)

on the subject of tires - I'm switching to tubular next year. Probably going Dugast Rhinos on psimet carbons- but getting PDX clinchers for my pit wheels.


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## grodo (Aug 1, 2007)

Kram said:


> But $120 for clinchers? RLY? I can get FMB or Dugast for less than that. Will they really make me that fast:idea:


I'm not sure that's right for the clincher version. I'm seeing @ $50 for those. The tubies are pretty high though @ $120-$130. But again, right there in FMB and Dugast range. Many seem to think they're worth it...


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## imba_pete (Oct 19, 2008)

*+1 Clement PDX*

Our team is sponsored by Clement and I've been using the PDX tubular all season. They are awesome. The tread is great, really hooks up well, and the center knobs roll pretty fast. Works in all conditions, but really shines when cornering traction is needed. Ben Berden has been winning races all season in all conditions on the PDX. Glues up straight, sidewall is weather-proofed, base tape is very high quality and straight, tread will never peel up, and is tubeless so resists pinch flats and sealant inside works well. No visable wear after over a dozen races. Highly recommend them. The quality compared to some other brands is not even close.


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## krisdrum (Oct 29, 2007)

Trebon (despite being injured currently) is also on the PDX this season and has had a really good season.


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## MShaw (Jun 7, 2003)

I've been running a Grifo seta front and an FMB somethingoranother back. Both were inherited.

The FMB is OK for everything that's not slick. Gets decent traction in the grass. Does well on the harder stuff. Sucks eggs once it gets the least bit slippy.

I just bought a Conti 'mud' tire. Haven't even mounted it yet. Looks like a small 32... Small knobs rather than the big scoop-like things on the other mud tires I've seen. Should do OK in pretty much any situation other than mud. (go figger!)

I'd like to have some Fangos for next season. Seem to be a good Mid-Atlantic compromise tire.

M


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## scrub (May 19, 2010)

I'm also going tubular for next year, I ran the Michelin Muds all season here in the Seattle area and absolutely loved them. I'm going to practice on that set of Tufo T34s I inherited and get something else for the actual season. What is the tubular equivalent of Mud IIs?


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## grodo (Aug 1, 2007)

imba_pete said:


> Our team is sponsored by Clement and I've been using the PDX tubular all season. They are awesome. The tread is great, really hooks up well, and the center knobs roll pretty fast. Works in all conditions, but really shines when cornering traction is needed. Ben Berden has been winning races all season in all conditions on the PDX. Glues up straight, sidewall is weather-proofed, base tape is very high quality and straight, tread will never peel up, and is tubeless so resists pinch flats and sealant inside works well. No visable wear after over a dozen races. Highly recommend them. The quality compared to some other brands is not even close.


Thanks Pete! Exactly the kind of feedback on the PDX I was looking for. Since you're sponsored by Clement...what about the LAS? Any experience with it? I've also heard they're coming out with a 'medium tread', but haven't been able to find any photos of those yet.


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## Beltway_Bonked (Nov 5, 2004)

I would add that the PDX tread sheds mud very well. We had our state championship on a course with alternating soft dirt / mud pits. My PDXs cleared the mud from the tread much better than a team mates' Rhinos.


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## clydeone (Oct 25, 2011)

I've heard many peeps call the PDX the new Mud 2 = excellent all rounder -- If I take the plunge next year will be my choice - still trying to decide between Tubular and tubeless -- But have lots of time now


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## Kram (Jan 28, 2004)

IMO I would NOT use Rhinos as your "main" tire. Great in mud but do not roll fast at all. I have a pr and they're awesome for their intended use, but not so much as an all-rounder.


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## Kram (Jan 28, 2004)

Mebbe that was for 2? I'll have to wait and see. They're sounding pretty good right now. (Since I only need 1 set of tires next year, I can afford to "splurge")


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## simonaway427 (Jul 12, 2010)

interesting discussion....

Sounds like maybe a good "all-round" combo are PDX tubs for my race wheels and PDX clinchers for pit wheels?

Also, do you need to aquaseal PDX tubs?


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## krisdrum (Oct 29, 2007)

No aquaseal needed on the PDXs.


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## Kram (Jan 28, 2004)

Really AFAIK Dugast are the only ones that really need sealer.


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## imba_pete (Oct 19, 2008)

*Clement LAS*



grodo said:


> Thanks Pete! Exactly the kind of feedback on the PDX I was looking for. Since you're sponsored by Clement...what about the LAS? Any experience with it? I've also heard they're coming out with a 'medium tread', but haven't been able to find any photos of those yet.


I have also been using the LAS and they are great. It is a file tread with aggressive side knobs. The diamond-pattern file tread is progressive, the diamonds get bigger as you go away from the center of the tread. They obviously roll very fast, but the knobs hook up too. In some ways it replaces an intermediate tread like a grifo or typhoon because it works so well. I've been using it on grassy and dirt courses when there is no mud. It is really fast. If you live in an area with fast and dry courses, you would love it. Plus it is tubeless and very well-built, and lighter than Challenge or Dugast. They currently make a clincher LAS that is great for training. Clement is also developing an intermediate tread for next season, an improved grifo-type pattern. Not sure when it will be ready, but probally mid-2012. Clement created the original Grifo, but later the pattern was licensed by Challenge. This new tread will take the decades-old grifo style and evolve it.


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## Guymk (Mar 27, 2009)

Another +1 to the clement PDX tubular. For mud and loose conditions it can't be beat. I figure that maybe it rolls a little bit slower (not much though) than other tires but the cornering traction is amazing and if i wipe out in a corner i will lose more time there than in rolling resistance.


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## Andy STi (Sep 13, 2009)

I used 34c Challenge Grifos and the new 32c Vittoria XM for mud. Love the Grifos and I was pleased with the Vittorias. Probikekit had the Vittorias for $35 each so I "had" to try them. I also bought a pair of 34c XGs and have a pair of 34c Fangos waiting to be glued. I think a may try the Fangos for all around as the Grifos are getting pretty worn.


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## Corndog (Jan 18, 2006)

FMB Grippo XL, 32mm are the best all around tire I've ever used. 

The Super Muds are as good as a Rhino, but have a better casing. They roll surprisingly well too.


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## cmdrpiffle (Mar 28, 2006)

Perhaps it's been covered, but does Michelin make the Mud 2 in a sew up?


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## pretender (Sep 18, 2007)

cmdrpiffle said:


> Perhaps it's been covered, but does Michelin make the Mud 2 in a sew up?


AFAIK no.
Adam Craig (Rabobank-Giant) Normally Rides On Michelin Tyres But This Is The Next Best Thing Since The Company Doesn't Make Tubulars: Mud 2 Tread On A Supple 32mm-wide Dugast Tubular Casing. Craig Calls The Combination, "super Awesome." Photos | Cycl


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## cmdrpiffle (Mar 28, 2006)

pretender said:


> AFAIK no.
> Adam Craig (Rabobank-Giant) Normally Rides On Michelin Tyres But This Is The Next Best Thing Since The Company Doesn't Make Tubulars: Mud 2 Tread On A Supple 32mm-wide Dugast Tubular Casing. Craig Calls The Combination, "super Awesome." Photos | Cycl


Yeah, pretty much what I figured after multiple GIS.
Much appreciated!

Cheers


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## atpjunkie (Mar 23, 2002)

*buy the clinchers*



cmdrpiffle said:


> Yeah, pretty much what I figured after multiple GIS.
> Much appreciated!
> 
> Cheers


and send them to FMB or Dugast and they will make them for you
you can save money if you remove the tread yourself


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## beaker (Feb 2, 2005)

atpjunkie said:


> you can save money if you remove the tread yourself


What is involved with removing the tread? Is it just cutting off the bead?

I've got a Grifo that's tread is pretty worn and is peeling in a number of places. The sidewalls are still in decent shape and I was wondering how hard a "tread transplant" would be. I figure the tire is almost shot, so even if it ends up a total failure it was going to be pitched soon anyway. 

Anyone try this?


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## BeerDrinkingDad (Oct 19, 2008)

Corndog said:


> FMB Grippo XL, 32mm are the best all around tire I've ever used.
> 
> The Super Muds are as good as a Rhino, but have a better casing. They roll surprisingly well too.


I've been running the Grippo up front with a Rhino in the back and am in love. Would like to try out the 34mm at some point but wonder if it's just the same tread on a bigger casing or if they use a wider tread.


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## Kram (Jan 28, 2004)

I've been toying with the idea of sending off a pr of Kenda small block 8's and having this done....


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## pretender (Sep 18, 2007)

Kram said:


> I've been toying with the idea of sending off a pr of Kenda small block 8's and having this done....


IMO that'd be a great dry/hardpack tire, better than file tread.


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## Kram (Jan 28, 2004)

Any one know how much Francois charges to do this? (FMB)


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## macdonc (Jul 7, 2006)

grodo said:


> Hi all-
> So, as the season winds down for most, I'd love to read some late updated reviews/opinions on tubular setups. Yes, I'm already thinking about next year! I'm particularly interested in the PDX, but am afraid it might be 'too much' for drier conditions. Does it make a good all arounder? Also, why are they more expensive than FMBs or Dugasts? FMB Super Mud looks interesting too. Maybe as a front only?
> 
> My tires 2010 and 2011 - all sew-ups:
> ...


PDX tubular makes an excellent all rounder. Heaps of traction in all conditions, clears well, corners really well, built straight, light... I suppose there are faster rolling tires but they by no means feel slow. Racing on mixed surfaces with variable conditions I wouldn't want anything else.


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