# Wiggo kinda rubs off as a condescending guy in this article.



## Ventruck (Mar 9, 2009)

Must Reads: Wiggo better than LA? O’Grady aims for history



> *Wiggo’ on Armstrong: ‘My victories aren’t built on sand’ — GQ*
> 
> Bradley Wiggins tells the British magazine GQ he believes he could have won against a showdown versus disgraced cyclist Lance Armstrong.
> 
> ...


I'm all for a clean winner, but this guy won one TDF - a seemingly lopsided TDF at that because his competition was really what? Froome? Looks a bit silly with him playing that hypothetical comparison card and attributing it to elevating his one-time (atm) feat. Some real champion stuff, putting insight on someone who should be irrelevant.

Maybe he could beat clean Lance - even in his prime - but was that so necessary to bring up? I don't recall Contador looking to comparisons when he stomped the guy sabotaging his TDF run, or Evans when the news broke out. Stay classy Wiggo.


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## Cableguy (Jun 6, 2010)

IMO interesting statements to make while standing on the balcony of your own sand castle...


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## spade2you (May 12, 2009)

So, does this mean that Contador has more class than Wiggo?


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## Ventruck (Mar 9, 2009)

spade2you said:


> So, does this mean that Contador has more class than Wiggo?


Pretty sure according to this board Contador is the scum of the Earth next to Lance.


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## Mike T. (Feb 3, 2004)

I don't see anything wrong with Wiggo's comments. It's his opinion to the questions posed at the time. Does he have to temper all his remarks as to whether someone in the world might get their panties in a knot over everything he says? Somehow, I'll bet he doesn't give a rat's buttocks.


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## albert owen (Jul 7, 2008)

There is something about Wiggins' personality that grates with me BUT - He IS a class act:
He dominated 2012stage racing even without adding his TdF win and Olympic Gold to go with all his other World and Olympic Golds.

If anyone has the right to voice an opinion Wiggins has!


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## RRRoubaix (Aug 27, 2008)

albert owen said:


> There is something about Wiggins' personality that grates with me BUT - He IS a class act


I'm not convinced he can be both grating and a class act.


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## turbogrover (Jan 1, 2006)

It's not bragging if you can back it up!
I didn't see anything in that article that was annoying to me. Seemed like a boring read IMO.


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## robdamanii (Feb 13, 2006)

Wiggins must be bipolar: one minute he does something that makes him seem endearing, the next he's the biggest sausage jock on the planet.


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## Doctor Falsetti (Sep 24, 2010)

The guy is a head case. After Froome attacked last year Wigan when to Yates and said he wanted to drop out of the Tour. Waaaaaa


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## aclinjury (Sep 12, 2011)

soo.... is Wiggo gonna go head-to-head with Contador in TdF 2013? or is planning to "support" Froome in the 2013 TdF?

Now that Lance has retired, trashing the man is just not fun. But I've love to see Wiggo trash Contador though, but it won't happen, because Wiggo knows Conti is gonna own him?

At any rate, I think he does have a valid point concerning his victories and Lance.


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## Cableguy (Jun 6, 2010)

aclinjury said:


> At any rate, I think he does have a valid point concerning his victories and Lance.


I'd be surprised if Wiggins isn't cheating in his own way. A way that he thinks he can get away with. Maybe we'll read about it eventually, and a current TdF champ will say the same thing about Wiggins.


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## DrSmile (Jul 22, 2006)

I think Tyler's description of Lance in his book shows the kind of personality and drive you have to possess to create the "alternate reality" necessary to be a TDF champion cyclist. I see many of Lance's described character traits in Wiggo. When the roof caves in I suspect there will also be similar douchbaggery. The only question I have is who is funding this operation, in the case of Lance there was a very organized corporate backbone.


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## spade2you (May 12, 2009)

turbogrover said:


> It's not bragging if you can back it up!
> I didn't see anything in that article that was annoying to me. Seemed like a boring read IMO.


He's not boring. He's just British.


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## moskowe (Mar 14, 2011)

Except Lance had extraordinary self-confidence, at least in public, whereas Wiggins is mentally pretty fragile, seeing from his numerous ****-ups during interviews.


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## AJL (Jul 9, 2009)

moskowe said:


> Except Lance had extraordinary self-confidence, at least in public, whereas Wiggins is mentally pretty fragile, seeing from his numerous ****-ups during interviews.


Disregarding how he won, Lance was a champion - Wiggo is just a guy who won the 2012 TdF.


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## Fireform (Dec 15, 2005)

AJL said:


> Disregarding how he won, Lance was a champion - Wiggo is just a guy who won the 2012 TdF.


Nonsense. Wiggins has more pro wins than Armstrong, to say nothing of Olympic gold medals.


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## bayAreaDude (Apr 13, 2012)

If he won the Tour clean, he IS superior to a doper who won it dirty, so he's not condescending, just accurate.

That thing LA has isn't self-confidence, it's arrogance - there's a difference.


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## spade2you (May 12, 2009)

bayAreaDude said:


> If he won the Tour clean, he IS superior to a doper who won it dirty, so he's not condescending, just accurate.
> 
> That thing LA has isn't self-confidence, it's arrogance - there's a difference.


If you like the guy, it's confidence. If not, it's arrogance.


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## bayAreaDude (Apr 13, 2012)

spade2you said:


> If you like the guy, it's confidence. If not, it's arrogance.


I see it more like, if the 'thing' a person is confident about is based on something real, it's self-confidence, if the 'thing' is some fantasy they concocted and they're pretending it's real, it's arrogance.


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## Local Hero (Jul 8, 2010)

If Wiggo is clean he can be rightfully proud of his accomplishments. 

Winning the TdF and some Olympic medals is badass. Doing it clean is even more awesome.


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## AJL (Jul 9, 2009)

Fireform said:


> Nonsense. Wiggins has more pro wins than Armstrong, to say nothing of Olympic gold medals.


He had the attitude of a champion. Some of it was self-confidence, some arrogance. He just had that will to win like the Badger. But like many, he was willing to win at all costs, and it cost him all (in sport anyway).


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## bayAreaDude (Apr 13, 2012)

AJL said:


> He had the attitude of a champion. Some of it was self-confidence, some arrogance. He just had that will to win like the Badger. But like many, he was willing to win at all costs, and it cost him all (in sport anyway).


If he were confident in his own abilities, he would have raced clean. However, he was insecure and scared that without dope he didn't have the talent and skills to win and was afraid to even give himself the chance to try, so like a coward he doped. I don't see that as the attitude of a champion. He didn't have a will to win because he knew even at the time he wasn't winning. What he did have was the will to be admired by others for something, even if it was a lie, so he could like himself. All about needing attention.


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## spade2you (May 12, 2009)

bayAreaDude said:


> I see it more like, if the 'thing' a person is confident about is based on something real, it's self-confidence, if the 'thing' is some fantasy they concocted and they're pretending it's real, it's arrogance.


I've been a musician a while. Also depends on the other person's level of insecurity. Regardless of Wiggo, Cav, or Lance's arrogance/confidence, I don't give a crap. 

This is the part where someone accuses me of industrial park crits.


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## Cableguy (Jun 6, 2010)

bayAreaDude said:


> If he were confident in his own abilities, he would have raced clean.


There's a line between confidence and stupidity. Specifically the realization that most of the top cyclists were already cheating at great lengths, and unless you played the game you had little to no chance especially at the Tour.

Edit: Also, it's not black and white. Wiggins is at the very least involved in some form of under the table performance enhancing system that would qualify as being against the rules. At the top level they all are. If you can certainly get away with it... and there's a good chance others are also doing it... what are you waiting for?


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## bayAreaDude (Apr 13, 2012)

Cableguy said:


> There's a line between confidence and stupidity. Specifically the realization that most of the top cyclists were already cheating at great lengths, and unless you played the game you had little to no chance especially at the Tour.


Are you saying riders who didn't dope were stupid? The guys who rode clean were aware they'd be more competitive if they doped and I think it's more likely they chose not to dope either for moral reasons or simply from the knowledge that getting caught would invalidate any wins. I think it takes a more confident person and displays far more will to win to choose to compete honestly even if that means not winning races against dopers.


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## AJL (Jul 9, 2009)

bayAreaDude said:


> If he were confident in his own abilities, he would have raced clean. However, he was insecure and scared that without dope he didn't have the talent and skills to win and was afraid to even give himself the chance to try, so like a coward he doped. I don't see that as the attitude of a champion. He didn't have a will to win because he knew even at the time he wasn't winning. What he did have was the will to be admired by others for something, even if it was a lie, so he could like himself. All about needing attention.


I'm sorry you just don't get it an apparently I can't explain it to you. You just don't understand the drive to win that is at the heart of a champion. Mind you, I'm no LA apologist - I'm just saying what I saw.(and have seen before in others). It's like Tom Brady's game face, when he is really looking for a win, you just know it when you see it.


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## sir duke (Mar 24, 2006)

spade2you said:


> He's not boring. He's just British.


Meaning what exactly? Slam the guy for being a prat but please, let's try to be a little less parochial.


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## Mike T. (Feb 3, 2004)

spade2you said:


> He's not boring. He's just British.


Way to go offending a whole race of people; me included.


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## Fireform (Dec 15, 2005)

Mike T. said:


> Way to go offending a whole race of people; me included.


Wait, the British are a race?


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## spade2you (May 12, 2009)

Mike T. said:


> Way to go offending a whole race of people; me included.


Lighten up, Francis. It's a joke. Y'all take yourselves entirely too serious in this forum. I am also part British and have won awards for my British beers that I've brewed.


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## ratherBclimbing (Apr 2, 2007)

Mike T. said:


> Way to go offending a whole race of people; me included.


That's amusing on multiple levels.


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## 32and3cross (Feb 28, 2005)

AJL said:


> Disregarding how he won, Lance was a champion - Wiggo is just a guy who won the 2012 TdF.


But as Lance has not won one grand tour or any olympic golds (soon to be not medals at all) I think (for the moment at least) Wiggans is a far greater champion. Lance, as it stands, was a gifted rider that doped the hell out himself to win races that he would never have won clean.


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## Cableguy (Jun 6, 2010)

bayAreaDude said:


> Are you saying riders who didn't dope were stupid?


No, but if you were truly aiming to win the Tour - not just finish or maybe win a stage but actually win overall - and you refused to do anything against the rules... during that era particularly, I'd say you were painfully oblivious, stupid, or both.



bayAreaDude said:


> I think it takes a more confident person and displays far more will to win to choose to compete honestly even if that means not winning races against dopers.


Doesn't really make sense to me, if anything it should be the other way around. I think you're confusing confidence (will to win) and morals.


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## pigpen (Sep 28, 2005)

Mike T. said:


> Way to go offending a whole race of people; me included.


Never knew that Brits were their own race of people.


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## ratherBclimbing (Apr 2, 2007)

Cableguy said:


> No, but if you were truly aiming to win the Tour - not just finish or maybe win a stage but actually win overall - and you refused to do anything against the rules... during that era particularly, I'd say you were painfully oblivious, stupid, or both.


Or, you just stuck to your morals, and that outweighed your will to win.


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## spade2you (May 12, 2009)

ratherBclimbing said:


> Or, you just stuck to your morals, and that outweighed your will to win.


Not many were willing to do that during the era.


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## roddjbrown (Jan 19, 2012)

sir duke said:


> Meaning what exactly? Slam the guy for being a prat but please, let's try to be a little less parochial.


And me. What an idiotic childish comment


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## ratherBclimbing (Apr 2, 2007)

roddjbrown said:


> And me. What an idiotic childish comment


You guys, sorry blokes, really need to lighten up.


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## roddjbrown (Jan 19, 2012)

ratherBclimbing said:


> You guys, sorry blokes, really need to lighten up.


Perhaps - except he's used exactly that same comment before about a Wiggins interview. Nobody laughed the first time, trying again is just insulting.


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## AJL (Jul 9, 2009)

32and3cross said:


> But as Lance has not won one grand tour or any olympic golds (soon to be not medals at all) I think (for the moment at least) Wiggans is a far greater champion. Lance, as it stands, was a gifted rider that doped the hell out himself to win races that he would never have won clean.


I don't have a problem with a different definition of a champion. Obviously, Wiggo isn't lacking in drive or desire, he could not have won so many races being a wall flower.


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## roddjbrown (Jan 19, 2012)

AJL said:


> I don't have a problem with a different definition of a champion. Obviously, Wiggo isn't lacking in drive or desire, he could not have won so many races being a wall flower.


Definite agree with this. I think though that Wiggins doesn't openly show the ruthlessness that people tend to associate with champions


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## Cableguy (Jun 6, 2010)

ratherBclimbing said:


> Or, you just stuck to your morals, and that outweighed your will to win.


And in that case you truly would not have been aiming to win the Tour. You would have accepted the fact there was no realistic way you could overcome the huge advantage PEDs provided your competition. So it's pretty unlikely your will to win would have been higher than the cheaters who were desperate enough to stoop to that level. I'm not really sure why making this point is important but I'm kind of bored and decided to bite. 

Also be careful about who you think "stuck to their morals", because more than likely the majority of everyone hanging up towards the front was (and still is) doing something against the rules to help level the playing field... it's pretty easy to label the guy with little natural talent who is loaded up on EPO a saint because he barely hung on each year and had crappy results.


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## MagClyde_II (Nov 27, 2012)

moskowe said:


> Except Lance had extraordinary self-confidence, at least in public, whereas *Wiggins is mentally pretty fragile*, seeing from his numerous ****-ups during interviews.



That's what I get from Wiggins too.


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## Local Hero (Jul 8, 2010)

moskowe said:


> Except Lance had extraordinary self-confidence, at least in public, whereas Wiggins is mentally pretty fragile, seeing from his numerous ****-ups during interviews.


Public speaking is hard. It's listed as a top fear by countless individuals. When someone is a poor public speaker they come off as different people in interviews and the public's eye. So many athletes would benefit from clubs like Toastmasters http://www.toastmasters.org/

...if they could just imagine a life _after_ sport.


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## bayAreaDude (Apr 13, 2012)

Cableguy said:


> No, but if you were truly aiming to win the Tour - not just finish or maybe win a stage but actually win overall - and you refused to do anything against the rules... during that era particularly, I'd say you were painfully oblivious, stupid, or both.
> 
> 
> 
> Doesn't really make sense to me, if anything it should be the other way around. I think you're confusing confidence (will to win) and morals.


Confidence does not mean the will to win and has nothing to do with winning. 

con·fi·dence/ˈkänfidəns/
Noun:	
The feeling or belief that one can rely on someone or something; firm trust: "we had every confidence in the staff".
The state of feeling certain about the truth of something.

If LA felt he could rely on his abilities to win a race, you could say he was confident. However, because he felt uncertain (lack of confidence) about his ability to win, he took PED's.


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## Fireform (Dec 15, 2005)

I'm sorry, but I'll take Wiggo over LA any day. How many times did LA lead out his sprinter for a stage win? That was very classy.


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## bayAreaDude (Apr 13, 2012)

AJL said:


> I'm sorry you just don't get it an apparently I can't explain it to you. You just don't understand the drive to win that is at the heart of a champion. Mind you, I'm no LA apologist - I'm just saying what I saw.(and have seen before in others). It's like Tom Brady's game face, when he is really looking for a win, you just know it when you see it.


LA didn't win the TDF and isn't the champion of that event. I understand a will to win, but having that will alone doesn't make someone a champion - winning something does and LA hasn't done that.


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## spade2you (May 12, 2009)

bayAreaDude said:


> LA didn't win the TDF and isn't the champion of that event. I understand a will to win, but having that will alone doesn't make someone a champion - winning something does and LA hasn't done that.


They have not stripped LA of all of his results. He's currently still a former WC.


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## Cableguy (Jun 6, 2010)

bayAreaDude said:


> Confidence does not mean the will to win and has nothing to do with winning.





bayAreaDude said:


> If he were confident in his own abilities, he would have raced clean. However, he was insecure and scared that without dope he didn't have the talent and skills to win and was afraid to even give himself the chance to try, so like a coward he doped. I don't see that as the attitude of a champion. He didn't have a will to win because he knew even at the time he wasn't winning.





bayAreaDude said:


> If LA felt he could rely on his abilities to win a race, you could say he was confident. However, because he felt uncertain (lack of confidence) about his ability to win, he took PED's.





Cableguy said:


> ...if you were truly aiming to win the Tour - not just finish or maybe win a stage but actually win overall - and you refused to do anything against the rules... during that era particularly, I'd say you were painfully oblivious, stupid, or both.


^ What say you?


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## bayAreaDude (Apr 13, 2012)

Cableguy said:


> ^ What say you?


Excellent posts - spot on.


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## MagClyde_II (Nov 27, 2012)

bayAreaDude said:


> Confidence does not mean the will to win and has nothing to do with winning.
> 
> con·fi·dence/ˈkänfidəns/
> Noun:
> ...



Where did he admit this  ?


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## spade2you (May 12, 2009)

Let me ask this. If Wiggo is arrogant, condescending, humble, confident, or fragile, what does it matter?


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## bayAreaDude (Apr 13, 2012)

MagClyde_II said:


> Where did he admit this  ?


He hasn't admitted taking PED's either, though that doesn't mean he didn't take them. You have to draw your own conclusions based on available evidence. I believe he was doping based on the USADA report. The conclusion I draw about someone who cheats is that they do it because they think it's the only way they can win, which means they have little faith in their own abilities without cheating, which is the definition of no self-confidence.


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## Fireform (Dec 15, 2005)

spade2you said:


> Let me ask this. If Wiggo is arrogant, condescending, humble, confident, or fragile, what does it matter?


What should we think is important about him? Clearly, we have no idea how we should judge a star athlete, so please guide us.


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## spade2you (May 12, 2009)

Fireform said:


> What should we think is important about him? Clearly, we have no idea how we should judge a star athlete, so please guide us.


Why should we be judging an athlete? Is a win not enough?


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## Fireform (Dec 15, 2005)

spade2you said:


> Why should we be judging an athlete? Is a win not enough?


Obviously, that's why Sports Illustrated is just a list of scores and ESPN is just a scroll of results with no commentary, and coverage of the Olympic Games is limited to the events and the medal counts. Nobody cares, or has ever cared, about the human dimensions of sport, the motives and personalities and struggles of the athletes.


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## spade2you (May 12, 2009)

Fireform said:


> Obviously, that's why Sports Illustrated is just a list of scores and ESPN is just a scroll of results with no commentary, and coverage of the Olympic Games is limited to the events and the medal counts. Nobody cares, or has ever cared, about the human dimensions of sport, the motives and personalities and struggles of the athletes.


You forgot how good or bad their jerseys looked this year. I know, I know. REPORTED.


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## sir duke (Mar 24, 2006)

spade2you said:


> Lighten up, Francis. It's a joke. Y'all take yourselves entirely too serious in this forum. I am also part British and have won awards for my British beers that I've brewed.


It's a joke if it's funny.


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## Local Hero (Jul 8, 2010)

lol @ REPORTED


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## AJL (Jul 9, 2009)

bayAreaDude said:


> LA didn't win the TDF and isn't the champion of that event. I understand a will to win, but having that will alone doesn't make someone a champion - winning something does and LA hasn't done that.


Oh he won them alright, they were just stripped later. He doped because his competition doped. He could not win the TdF during those times without doping. EPO was a very power drug for those who could tolerate it. He didn't lack talent, drive or desire. He was advised that to win, he needed to dope, because his competition was. Seriously, look at how many from the Armstrong era were bagged for doping.

The thing is that Armstrong did it better than everyone else, and started a doping arms-race. That, perhaps more than anything, was his real contribution to giving cycling a black eye. But black eyes heal.

Sport, in general, is rife with dopers, taking all our fury out on Armstrong really misses the point. It is all very sad, but in America we tend to either exalt or demonize our star sports figures.


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## spade2you (May 12, 2009)

sir duke said:


> It's a joke if it's funny.


Oh, BURN. You should have neg repped me to make you feel better and send me a PM saying, "I hope you feel good about yourself!" And maybe throw in 2-3 of these: 

I take it all back. Wiggo is delightful and dreamy.


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## sir duke (Mar 24, 2006)

ratherBclimbing said:


> You guys, sorry blokes, really need to lighten up.[/QUOTE
> 
> And you, sunshine, need to understand that there are ways on internet forums to let people know when you are joking, lest they get the wrong idea and assume you are just being a tosser. We call them emoticons. Spade2you didn't use any with his comment so he can't really complain that people are jumping on him because they lack a sense of humour. Unless of course, he was really being serious and thinks Brits are boring. In which case he can go and play with that idea in The Lounge and we can all have a good laugh at him.


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## spade2you (May 12, 2009)

sir duke said:


> And you, sunshine, need to understand that there are ways on internet forums to let people know when you are joking, lest they get the wrong idea and assume you are just being a tosser. We call them emoticons. Spade2you didn't use any with his comment so he can't really complain that people are jumping on him because they lack a sense of humour. Unless of course, he was really being serious and thinks Brits are boring. In which case he can go and play with that idea in The Lounge and we can all have a good laugh at him.


Sorry, you don't have permission to have a laugh at me in the lownje. You need to first have a corgi. Beets.


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## sir duke (Mar 24, 2006)

spade2you said:


> Oh, BURN. You should have neg repped me to make you feel better and send me a PM saying, "I hope you feel good about yourself!" And maybe throw in 2-3 of these:
> 
> I take it all back. Wiggo is delightful and dreamy.


Lighten up, I was only kidding.....


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## sir duke (Mar 24, 2006)

AJL said:


> Disregarding how he won, Lance was a champion - Wiggo is just a guy who won the 2012 TdF.


Now that is funny...


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## Doctor Falsetti (Sep 24, 2010)

spade2you said:


> Why should we be judging an athlete? Is a win not enough?


People who can pedal a bike fast are above judgement?


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## sir duke (Mar 24, 2006)

spade2you said:


> You forgot how good or bad their jerseys looked this year. I know, I know. REPORTED.









why don't you just report them back?


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## ratherBclimbing (Apr 2, 2007)

sir duke said:


> And you, sunshine, need to understand that there are ways on internet forums to let people know when you are joking, lest they get the wrong idea and assume you are just being a tosser. We call them emoticons. Spade2you didn't use any with his comment so he can't really complain that people are jumping on him because they lack a sense of humour. Unless of course, he was really being serious and thinks Brits are boring. In which case he can go and play with that idea in The Lounge and we can all have a good laugh at him.


I didn't realize there is a rulebook to internet posting. I will be sure to properly utilize emoticons in the future. I guess I was wrong about you guys needing to lighten up.


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## ratherBclimbing (Apr 2, 2007)

sir duke said:


> Lighten up, I was only kidding.....


I saw no emoticons. Jest invalid.


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## spade2you (May 12, 2009)

Doctor Falsetti said:


> People who can pedal a bike fast are above judgement?


I suppose this forum is 100% worthy of judging athletes, considering a doping forum membe has already condemned Lance to eternal damnation in Hades.


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## roddjbrown (Jan 19, 2012)

spade2you said:


> I suppose this forum is 100% worthy of judging athletes, considering a doping forum membe has already condemned Lance to eternal damnation in Hades.


In Hades?! Lance is going to live forever inside an Ancient Greek god?! Well I'm furious.


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## Local Hero (Jul 8, 2010)

Doctor Falsetti said:


> People who can pedal a bike fast are above judgement?


Why do we even care about pro cyclists? It's because they can pedal a bike fast. If they couldn't do this--if the worked as a butcher--nobody would care if the guy were arrogant, fragile, condescending or cocky.


Even so, I think that misses the point. 

Fans are often caught up with the personal lives and personalities of celebrities. The celebrities can be famous actors, politicians, athletes, or even billionaire business men. The only problem is that without direct contact with the celebrities, fans pass judgment based on what they see through kaleidoscopic media. So a personality who can work the media the way Armstrong did in his early years can fool fans into thinking that he's a nice guy, while an awkward brit may seem snooty and standoffish. 


I grew up doing mixed martial arts. I'm a big MMA fan. One of my favorite fighters is a "heel" -- he's a trash talker and plays a bad guy in interviews. But those who know him say he's got a big heart and that he does everything he can for others, despite his personna. Some people are turned off by his brovado and hate the guy. I like him because he's a solid fighter. 
Chael Sonnen 1 Hour Of Epicness - Anderson Silva Bandwagoner`s rejoice - YouTube


If you follow sports and a pro is able to upset you, then you are doing it wrong. You're supposed to enjoy the entertainment.


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## Fireform (Dec 15, 2005)

spade2you said:


> I suppose this forum is 100% worthy of judging athletes, considering a doping forum membe has already condemned Lance to eternal damnation in Hades.


I hope you don't REPORT me for this, but the amount of righteous indignation you can generate on behalf of pro athletes you don't know and will probably never meet is genuinely impressive. How do you do it? And more importantly, why?


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## spade2you (May 12, 2009)

Fireform said:


> I hope you don't REPORT me for this, but the amount of righteous indignation you can generate on behalf of pro athletes you don't know and will probably never meet is genuinely impressive. How do you do it? And more importantly, why?


It's a bike race, not a man date. It's not good vs. evil. They're not heroes. Spiderman is a hero.


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## spade2you (May 12, 2009)

roddjbrown said:


> In Hades?! Lance is going to live forever inside an Ancient Greek god?! Well I'm furious.


Damn autocorrect. I will now proceed pull a Chris-X and do bad things to your profile.


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## ratherBclimbing (Apr 2, 2007)

spade2you said:


> Damn autocorrect. I will now proceed pull a Chris-X and do bad things to your profile.


I don't see the problem, Hades is also used as a synonym for Hell or the Greek underworld, aka the Rivers of Hades. I think it's referenced in the Christian bible somewhere.


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## roddjbrown (Jan 19, 2012)

ratherBclimbing said:


> I don't see the problem, Hades is also used as a synonym for Hell or the Greek underworld, aka the Rivers of Hades. I think it's referenced in the Christian bible somewhere.


Quite possibly - being pedantic has a great risk of backfire.

Now you leave my profile alone spade, I've nearly got enough credits for a "winningtheinternet" cap


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## Local Hero (Jul 8, 2010)

RIP Chris X.


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## Fireform (Dec 15, 2005)

spade2you said:


> It's a bike race, not a man date. It's not good vs. evil. They're not heroes. Spiderman is a hero.


So if one of these not-heros is shown to be a lying, cheating, backstabbing jerk, it's bad to point that out because....?


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## spade2you (May 12, 2009)

Fireform said:


> So if one of these not-heros is shown to be a lying, cheating, backstabbing jerk, it's bad to point that out because....?


What does my boss have to do with this?


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## spade2you (May 12, 2009)

Local Hero said:


> RIP Chris X.


May he forever lurk and be angry the rest of his life and afterlife.


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## Doctor Falsetti (Sep 24, 2010)

spade2you said:


> It's a bike race, not a man date. It's not good vs. evil. They're not heroes. Spiderman is a hero.


You have no problem going after Lemond and others who told the truth........very selective with your standards :thumbsup:


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## Doctor Falsetti (Sep 24, 2010)

spade2you said:


> I suppose this forum is 100% worthy of judging athletes, considering a doping forum membe has already condemned Lance to eternal damnation in Hades.


You are making the same mistake again, applying the words of one person to the entire forum.

I look forward to you no longer judging LeMond, Frankie, Betsy, and all the others who chose not to lie.


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## spade2you (May 12, 2009)

Doctor Falsetti said:


> You have no problem going after Lemond and others who told the truth........very selective with your standards :thumbsup:


We who race industrial park criteriums tend to be that way.


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## Doctor Falsetti (Sep 24, 2010)

spade2you said:


> We who race industrial park criteriums tend to be that way.


Perhaps you should make a list of who we are allowed to discuss as it is hard to keep up with your shifting standards. 

*Can't Question*

Lance
Wiggins

*Can Smear*
Greg
Frankie
Betsy
Floyd
VDV
JV
Levi
George


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## AJL (Jul 9, 2009)

Wow, it feels a bit like I'm in the PO forum!


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## spade2you (May 12, 2009)

Doctor Falsetti said:


> Perhaps you should make a list of who we are allowed to discuss as it is hard to keep up with your shifting standards.
> 
> *Can't Question*
> 
> ...


I never said you cant question Wiggo. I just don't care much about their personality or personal life. The world can be as offended as they want about Cav, but all of that has little relevance in a bunch sprint. 

I'm just a racer and simply care about the bike race. I don't need a virtual tour of Cippo's closets, how to pick fashionable scarves with Pozzato, or Moncoutie's stamp collection. I suppose this makes me an ignorant fan.


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## Fireform (Dec 15, 2005)

Sorry. Doping is not part of their "personal life." This is a doping forum and that's what is discussed here. If you truly don't care about it, you spend an aweful lot of time posting here.


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## Doctor Falsetti (Sep 24, 2010)

spade2you said:


> I never said you cant question Wiggo. I just don't care much about their personality or personal life.


Riiight:thumbsup:.......which is why you call LeMond bitter, egocentric, douchebag and invent stories of Betsy throwing dishes.


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## Local Hero (Jul 8, 2010)

Betsy throws dishes?!


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## DrSmile (Jul 22, 2006)

Doesn't taking testosterone make you more aggressive? I think there are a bunch of dopers right here in this forum!


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## spade2you (May 12, 2009)

Doctor Falsetti said:


> Riiight:thumbsup:.......which is why you call LeMond bitter, egocentric, douchebag and invent stories of Betsy throwing dishes.


You forgot your standard jab against American cyclists and industrial park crits. 

The dramatization of Betsy throwing a dish when she found out her husband was doping was only speculation. However, knowing a few people like her growing up, I'd advise you to duck if you ever angered one and to be advised that a grudge would last a lifetime and beyond. I know you'll defend her to the hilt simply because she attacks LA. I know a vengeful and crazy lady when I see one. 

As for LeMond. I'll agree with bitter and egocentric. I consider him more of a jerk than a douche. It would have been more fruitful to attack his competition than his successors. However, it is my driving point that I don't give a flying fornication about a rider's personality beyond the wins.


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## spade2you (May 12, 2009)

Fireform said:


> Sorry. Doping is not part of their "personal life." This is a doping forum and that's what is discussed here. If you truly don't care about it, you spend an aweful lot of time posting here.


Why, if I didn't know any better, it would seem tat you are implying that I condone doping. I say again, I don't care about how nice or dreamy riders are. Cheating is cheating. When everyone is cheating is a little nebulous, but the officials made their decision. Lance loses his titles. Vino keeps his. Justice was obviously served. (That's sarcasm, which I clearly need to point out in this forum.) I know, REPORTED.


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## Fireform (Dec 15, 2005)

spade2you said:


> Why, if I didn't know any better, it would seem tat you are implying that I condone doping. I say again, I don't care about how nice or dreamy riders are. Cheating is cheating. When everyone is cheating is a little nebulous, but the officials made their decision. Lance loses his titles. Vino keeps his. Justice was obviously served. (That's sarcasm, which I clearly need to point out in this forum.) I know, REPORTED.


I give up. If you can't understand that Lance was subject to one governing body that enforced its rules and others are subject to other governing bodies that may or may not be so effective, and behave as we are fine with that, as if we LIKE seeing Vino or Conti or whoever get off easy while Lance gets hammered because we have some unnatural personal hatred of Lance, it's just impossible. 

The situation is not complicated--Lance got what was coming to him, and other cheaters should as well. You can invent all the strawmen you like, but I'm out.


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## sir duke (Mar 24, 2006)

ratherBclimbing said:


> I didn't realize there is a rulebook to internet posting. I will be sure to properly utilize emoticons in the future. I guess I was wrong about you guys needing to lighten up.


So now you know,  btw, it's OK to be wrong in the doping forum.


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