# Buy Local or Buy Online?



## TripleB (Dec 21, 2012)

I'm someone who has very little knowledge of quality bikes*. Would you advise me to buy locally or do you think it would be OK to purchase online (_max budget probably $900; not sure what type of bike yet, will be riding 90% road/10% packed dirt_)?

Thanks for the advice.

TripleB

*I really haven't ever treated bicycling as a sport...I rode to get places when I was little on my awesome 24" 10 speed orange bike and more recently I rode to enjoy time with my daughter (now 16) and son (now 5). Due to MicroFracture surgery on 11/26 the doc says no more tennis and no more running for me and suggested cycling as my new sport.


----------



## wassler (Oct 25, 2009)

I'd suggest to go to a local store. You might pay a bit more than an internet store, but you'll get advice, may be able to test ride a bike and you have someone to turn to for maintenance or repairs. And it's always a good thing to support your local economy.

Kind regards,

Wassler


----------



## SauronHimself (Nov 21, 2012)

If you have no clue as to what you're doing, it's advised that you at least visit your LBS (local bike shop) and test some bikes. If the shop offers lifetime free maintenance/adjustments (excluding the cost of replacement parts of course), it'd probably be worth buying from them. However, once you gain enough knowledge about what fits you and what you prefer, buying online is a great way to go since it saves you a lot of money.


----------



## RJP Diver (Jul 2, 2010)

SauronHimself said:


> If you have no clue as to what you're doing, it's advised that you at least visit your LBS (local bike shop) and test some bikes. If the shop offers lifetime free maintenance/adjustments (excluding the cost of replacement parts of course), it'd probably be worth buying from them. However, once you gain enough knowledge about what fits you and what you prefer, buying online is a great way to go since it saves you a lot of money.


So you're suggesting that OP should take advantage of the time and expertise of the LBS... and then buy the bike online? Sort of poor form, no?


----------



## Thanos (Jan 31, 2012)

Online of course, it is obviously the cheapest and most effective way...


----------



## SauronHimself (Nov 21, 2012)

RJP Diver said:


> So you're suggesting that OP should take advantage of the time and expertise of the LBS... and then buy the bike online? Sort of poor form, no?


That's extrapolating a false conclusion. I said he should buy from the LBS if he has no clue as to what he's doing and the LBS also offers good services. If he gains enough knowledge to feel comfortable about future purchases, then I do advocate online shopping. Whether or not it's poor form is irrelevant and entirely subjective. 

However, since we are somewhat on the subject of shop-here-buy-elsewhere, let's consider the following: How many times do people walk into a store and ask the employees questions about a product and then buy it online because it's a lot cheaper? How many times do people walk onto a car lot knowing that the sales people are 100% commission, take up hours of their time, and then buy somewhere else because it's a lot cheaper? Those situations occur constantly. I use my LBS for the services and to buy the occasional lube or grease, but at the end of the day they're a business that has to earn and continuously retain the privilege of having my business. Otherwise, I can always go elsewhere.


----------



## r1lee (Jul 22, 2012)

99% of my purchases are at my lbs. They try to match all the online pricing and in most cases they beat it, even the UK deals. My odd purchases online are usually products that are online only.


----------



## ABdan (Aug 10, 2012)

A good LBS is a great thing to have, and a great group of people to form a relationship with. In most cases. If you are not sure what you're looking for, which sounds like it is the case, you should certainly go talk with them. The good ones will give you a great starting point in looking for a bike, and hopefully great service after the fact. The online buy is a whole other discussion.


----------



## Campngolf (Nov 12, 2012)

I really like to support my LBS because if they go away, the opportunity to do "hands-on" testing, sizing, advice on local rides, etc. goes away with them. Good customer service is worth an extra buck or two. I'll occasionally order online but it's usually for the odd item that a LBS wouldn't carry.


----------



## PlatyPius (Feb 1, 2009)

SauronHimself said:


> That's extrapolating a false conclusion. I said he should buy from the LBS if he has no clue as to what he's doing and the LBS also offers good services. If he gains enough knowledge to feel comfortable about future purchases, then I do advocate online shopping. Whether or not it's poor form is irrelevant and entirely subjective.
> 
> However, since we are somewhat on the subject of shop-here-buy-elsewhere, let's consider the following: How many times do people walk into a store and ask the employees questions about a product and then buy it online because it's a lot cheaper? *How many times do people walk onto a car lot knowing that the sales people are 100% commission, take up hours of their time, and then buy somewhere else because it's a lot cheaper? Those situations occur constantly.* I use my LBS for the services and to buy the occasional lube or grease, but at the end of the day they're a business that has to earn and continuously retain the privilege of having my business. Otherwise, I can always go elsewhere.


Regarding the bold part:

1) I am also 100% commission. If I don't sell enough, I don't pay myself. For the first three years of owning my shop, I didn't pay myself (pretty normal when starting a new business).

2) You can't buy cars online.


----------



## danl1 (Jul 23, 2005)

Thanos said:


> Online of course, it is obviously the cheapest and most effective way...


Until you realize that you have to buy, and buy again because you took bad advice from someone online, or 'translated' the LBS advice into something totally other because it was 'on sale and only one size different.'


----------



## Jay Strongbow (May 8, 2010)

"Buy local" doesn't mean anything in terms of describing the service, price or product you will get not does saying "on-line".
There are some bike shops I wouldn't suggest to my worst enemy and would definitely select certain websites I'm comfortable with before buying there. By the same token there are other bike shops that are fantastic and I'd gladly pay much more to get a bike there. On-line is usually a bit cheaper (at least in the short run) but that's not a given either.

So without knowing anything about the particular shop(s) you are comparing to a web site(s) it's a question that can't be answered.

On average I'd choose a local bike shop especially for a bike. The test ride and fitting speak for itself but I'd much rather drive a few miles over putting a bike in a box and mailing it if there was ever a warranty issue.


----------



## SauronHimself (Nov 21, 2012)

PlatyPius said:


> 2) You can't buy cars online.


New & used cars, trucks, motorcycles, parts, accessories
Say again? Used and new right there.


----------



## vmaxx4 (Jul 19, 2011)

I like to support my local shops when I can. They are my friends and riding buds. 
I have purchased my Trek and my two Salsa bikes locally. I buy some of my clothing and parts locally but most (80%) on line. The bike prices I found to be very competitive but the clothing and parts are just too far apart in pricing, therefor the lure to purchase online is just too irresistible.


----------



## PlatyPius (Feb 1, 2009)

SauronHimself said:


> New & used cars, trucks, motorcycles, parts, accessories
> Say again? Used and new right there.


You can't buy a new car from 1000 miles away and have it arrive at your door via UPS. You can have it shipped on a car hauler, or you can fly out and drive it back. Either option will nullify any savings you might receive. The only way to buy a new car is from a dealer. In other words, they're all paying close to the same price for the vehicle, so you aren't going to find some internet guy selling below wholesale. Bike shops have to deal with grey market sellers online as well as companies from the UK selling below our wholesale.


----------



## perpetuum_mobile (Nov 30, 2012)

TripleB said:


> I'm someone who has very little knowledge of quality bikes*. Would you advise me to buy locally or do you think it would be OK to purchase online (_max budget probably $900; not sure what type of bike yet, will be riding 90% road/10% packed dirt_)?
> 
> Thanks for the advice.
> 
> ...


It depends how serious you are about cycling. I would suggest getting your first bike from the LBS and if it turns out that cycling really is your thing then it makes sense to invest money in tools and start buying bikes and parts online. You will always get better value for your money online. It is cheaper and faster to do everything yourself. A good tool-set is the best cycling related investment I have ever made.

From my experience: I will always do a better job fixing and maintaining my bike than any mechanic in the LBS. That's because I am working on my bike and I really care what the outcome is. Fixing a bike is not a rocket science. I will take my time to do the job properly. On the other hand, people at the LBS work on tens and hundreds of bikes and they just want to get the job done as easy and fast as possible. And they always try to sell you stuff that you don't really need and get upset when you refuse to buy.

I don't care about this whole "support your local LBS/economy" nonsense. It is free market and online stores are also a part of economy. LBS should offer something that is not available online. If they can't then they might as well disappear. 

The last time I visited a LBS they charged me $15 for truing a wheel that was only slightly out of true. $15 for a 3 minute job? Really? I hope they go bankrupt.


----------



## imschur (Jan 19, 2013)

I mostly buy from my LBS. I started using them in 2002 and they have adapted well to the times. Pricing is fair and service is outstanding. They were super helpful helping me select my first road bike in decades. I have seen them battle factories for busted customer mtb's.
In a few months when I get a new mtb I will buy something they offer even though I may yearn for a Yeti 

When I was heavily into mtb'ing i would buy a lot of closeout type stuff online. I used to buy components as well but the industry seems to have killed the massive price differential that once existed. jmho


----------



## PlatyPius (Feb 1, 2009)

perpetuum_mobile said:


> From my experience: I will always do a better job fixing and maintaining my bike than any mechanic in the LBS. That's because I am working on my bike and I really care what the outcome is. Fixing a bike is not a rocket science. I will take my time to do the job properly. On the other hand, people at the *LBS work on tens and hundreds of bikes and they just want to get the job done as easy and fast as possible. And they always try to sell you stuff that you don't really need and get upset when you refuse to buy.*
> 
> I don't care about this whole "support your local LBS/economy" nonsense. It is free market and online stores are also a part of economy. LBS should offer something that is not available online. If they can't then they might as well disappear.
> 
> The last time I visited a LBS they charged me $15 for truing a wheel that was only slightly out of true. $15 for a 3 minute job? Really? I hope they go bankrupt.


I have worked in several shops and have only met a very few mechanics who want to slam the bike out and not have it perfect. Any bike that goes through my service department leaves better than it came in, and usually with more work performed than the customer asked for. (ie: most are cleaned and lubed, even if in for just a new tube.) Nor has any shop I've ever worked for tried to sell a customer parts for a repair that weren't needed. I'm sure some do, but I've never dealt with them.

Supporting your local economy is not nonsense. Spending money locally keeps the money local. Bike shops donate money to all kinds of things such as the United Way, high school sports, little league, bowling teams, nature and rails-to-trails projects, etc. If all of a town's money goes outside of town, there won't be much of a town left eventually. 

Lastly - I don't know where you are, but $15 for a 3 minute wheel true IS a lot. 3 minutes spent on a wheel here is $0-$5. One shop charging too much isn't a reason to hate them all, though.


----------



## froze (Sep 15, 2002)

If your not confident about how to select the proper bike for your size then go to an LBS so you don't order a wrong bike and have to send it back for a different size. But if your confident of what size you need then you for the $900 online you would spend you would have to spend around $1300 at an LBS to get a similar equipped bike. Bikes Direct has the best prices of any place online.

As far as the kind of bike you should consider, you should consider a cross bikes or even touring bikes if you like drop style bars (which give you more places to move your hands about then straight bars). Here is a list of Bikes Direct cross bike offerings: Save Up To 60% Off New Cyclocross Bicycles from bikesdirect.com. Great for commuting, racing or just having fun riding most anywhere.

Hybrid bikes have straight bars; see: Save up to 60% off new Hybrid Bikes | Hybrid | Cafe Bikes - MTB - ATB Any of these can be converted to drop bars if you wanted to later.

To find Bikes Direct's touring road bike offerings just click on the touring bike tab in the yellow bar.

All the Cross, Touring, and Hybrid's will come with wider 28 to 32 size tires that are more then adequate for road use, in fact even road bikers are slowly go to 25 from 23 so a 28 is more then adequate, and the 28 to 32 will travel on packed dirt with ease; heck I've ridden on pack dirt with 23's with no problems, but the larger 28 to 32 will be more comfortable on packed dirt as well as on rough pavement.

I'm only showing you the Bikes Direct line as an example, if you have another source your considering then do it, or list it here so we can advise you on the quality of the bike.

Yes you can buy cars online, you can order any car you want, or buy it on E-bay and make arrangements to have it shipped to your home or to a dealer for pickup locally. You can buy almost anything online today if not everything!

By the way, about 98% of all custom built bikes, these are expensive bikes, are purchased on line, don't let people scare you with their nonsense.


----------



## fatoni (Jan 8, 2013)

i was in the same exact situation a week ago. i walked into a shop (a road bike 4 u in socal) and they did a floor fit to make sure i was getting the right size frame, offered advice and opinions based on experience and reasoning and then said "but money is money." they were willing to work with the price and the fact that they seemed more interested in getting me into riding than making some money is invaluable to me. no regrets here.


----------



## cabsav214 (Jul 31, 2012)

I would recommend buying a bike at an LBS as well, I have purchased a few online as well as a few from my LBS. When I take my bike in, if it's one I purchashed there, more often than not the adjustment or truing etc. is free. They are also more willing to go for bat for you if you need any warranty issues.


----------



## 768Q (Jun 23, 2012)

Why not decide what type of bike and size through research on the web and then go search out your local CL? You will end up with 2 or 3 times the bike for the money. I decided I wanted a hybrid for my 1st bike and found a absolutely like new Diamondback Insight for $150, then 4 months later wanted a carbon road race type bike, so I found a '04 Trek 5200 (all Ultegra) this one had at best 250 miles on it from the original owner and came with all documents for $800 it is in absolutely like new condition and I could not be happier! I am now lusting for a Pinarello so the search begins. To me it makes it that much more fun! What ever you decide good luck and have FUN! BTW here is a post I just did on my wife's new bike found on CL :

http://forums.roadbikereview.com/general-cycling-discussion/wifes-new-whip-299394.html


----------



## dcvlehr (Jan 20, 2013)

This was something I was wondering as well. Might have to check back with this thread.


----------



## eddubb (Sep 28, 2012)

I like to do some of both. If I can find the item at local shop and the price is reasonably close, I by it locally. If there is a huge price difference then I will buy online. I will also by replacement items online like jerseys, shorts, etc. after I have bought the first one locally. 

One hand washes the other right?


----------



## sunawang (Oct 10, 2012)

Online or offline please ensure to choose the right bike based on your need. If it's required to choose. I honestly tend to buy online. Save energy and money )


----------



## velodog (Sep 26, 2007)

If you need to ask you really should go to the LBS. Find a good shop with a good mechanic and get you're bike there.

An honest mechanic really makes the LBS worth the extra money that you may spend there. As your skill level grows you may or may not want to do your own maintenance, either way you learn from someone who knows what is what.

Shopping on line is kinda like shopping at a department store, bought cheaper but nowhere to go with issues. And if you can't do it yourself you're gonna pay to have it done at the LBS anyway.


----------



## woodys737 (Dec 31, 2005)

TripleB said:


> I'm someone who has very little knowledge of quality bikes*. Would you advise me to buy locally or do you think it would be OK to purchase online (_max budget probably $900; not sure what type of bike yet, will be riding 90% road/10% packed dirt_)?
> 
> Thanks for the advice.
> 
> ...


Knowing little about bikes or even what you want is a recipe for disaster buying on line imo. Look for a LBS that comes with recommendations, has been around for a long time, in general someplace you feel comfortable spending time and money at. Buy online only if you know exactly what you want down to the last nut and bolt and understand the implications of the possibility you may buy the completely wrong size/kind of bike and hate the sport before you give it a good go.

Even if you know exactly what you want I still tend to say LBS simply because you'll need help tuning/maintaining the bike and developing a relationship with a local store is worth more than you can put a price on. Best regards!


----------



## kingpin26 (Jan 20, 2013)

Buy local better price no damage risk and builds relationship with your local shop


----------



## carlislegeorge (Mar 28, 2004)

I don't really have too much to add....it makes sense to start out buying from a LBS if you're truly starting out. 

However...I'd suggest you do some comparison "just shopping around" across at least 2-3 LBS (not including REI or HTO or Performance), unless you live so far out in the boonies that isn't possible. Get a feel for the what the sales folks may be saying, e.g., do they really know what they're talking about, whether they are just pushing product, are they seriously interested in making you a long term customer by treating you with respect, irrespective of how much or little you're spending.


----------



## Monk (Jan 28, 2012)

I'm with many here, I buy from both: 

I shop several shops in my area and buy items of usually modest costs (tubes, bar tape, etc...), but for services I can't do myself, I happily use my LBS of choice. 

As an experienced cyclist with good product knowledge, I purchase higher priced items online due to big savings. Their staff are knowledgeable IMO and easy to work with. No hassle return policies, usually free shipping, low prices and great selection do it for me.

Attitude can lose my business (LBS or online) quite easily-I can always go elsewhere...


----------



## froze (Sep 15, 2002)

Buying a bike from an LBS has it's advantages like some have mentioned, but is that advantage worth the extra $500 or so? Maybe not, free tuneups for the most part are a joke. As soon as you take the bike in for your "free" tune up you get a phone call later in the day saying this and that has to be replace and will cost you at least $100 including parts and labor. Hopefully if you buy from an LBS they will be honest, but a lot are not.

If you learn how to do at least simple repairs yourself then the free tune up is valueless. If you can't do simple mechanical repairs and can't even learn the concept of it then by all means take it in and get it worked on and expect a bill.

When you buy online you do have to put some parts together, if you're not familiar with that sort of thing then take the bike to an LBS and they will put it together for you for a small charge of about $75 to $100. A lot of people take internet purchased bikes to a LBS for this exact thing and they don't get thrown out of the LBS like drunken bums in a bar. The LBS will treat you nice because they want you to buy parts and accessories from them, they make more money on the sale of parts and accessories then they do selling you a bike! This stuff about an LBS treating you better if you buy a bike from them is just pure nonsense, most repairs done at LBS's are bikes that were never purchased from them! Either the LBS you're going to deal with is staffed by jerks or their not, and that will determine the level of service you'll get.

If you decide to go on line for your bike repost here because there are some things you need to check out or have checked out before you ride the bike.


----------



## froze (Sep 15, 2002)

Also the illusion of having a LBS go to bat for you in case of a warranty issue is just that...mostly an illusion. I don't how many times I've read here and on other forums of members having a warranty issue and not getting any satisfaction from their LBS to help them. Also, and again, 99% of all expensive custom made bikes are handled by internet and mail, and you never hear of a custom manufacture hassling a customer over a warranty issue, in fact the vast majority of warranty issues come from factory made bikes.


----------



## BoostTed (Jan 14, 2013)

I thought about this too when buying my bike and after going to a LBS, I made my mind and when with the LBS. Not because of the service or anything, but because I was able to ride a few different models and feel which one fits my riding style and preference. Each bike feels different and I wouldnt have known that if buying online.


----------



## SlicedUpBeef (Dec 16, 2012)

Online and educate yourself with threads like these.


----------



## SirVelo' (Aug 16, 2012)

I prefer online....you wont get ripped off...and no BS with attitudes.


----------



## PlatyPius (Feb 1, 2009)

SirVelo' said:


> I prefer online....you wont get ripped off...and no BS with attitudes.


I'm getting really tired of people saying that paying MSRP or slightly below is being "ripped off".... Paying OVER MSRP is being ripped off.


----------



## carlislegeorge (Mar 28, 2004)

SirVelo' said:


> I prefer online....you wont get ripped off...and no BS with attitudes.


he ^^^^ must have just read "how to win friends and influence people"....


----------



## cxwrench (Nov 9, 2004)

perpetuum_mobile said:


> It depends how serious you are about cycling. I would suggest getting your first bike from the LBS and if it turns out that cycling really is your thing then it makes sense to invest money in tools and start buying bikes and parts online. You will always get better value for your money online. It is cheaper and faster to do everything yourself. A good tool-set is the best cycling related investment I have ever made.
> 
> From my experience: I will always do a better job fixing and maintaining my bike than any mechanic in the LBS. That's because I am working on my bike and I really care what the outcome is. Fixing a bike is not a rocket science. I will take my time to do the job properly. On the other hand, people at the LBS work on tens and hundreds of bikes and they just want to get the job done as easy and fast as possible. And they always try to sell you stuff that you don't really need and get upset when you refuse to buy.
> 
> ...


$15.00 is too much? really? do you own a truing stand? they cost $260.00 and we have 3 of them. do you know how to true a wheel...correctly? every mechanic in our shop is an accomplished wheel builder and will do a great job truing your wheel. our minimum wheel truing charge is $20.00. we do provide free truing for the life of the wheel if we built it, but if you're too cheap to pay $20.00 for 15-20 minutes minimum work, then learn how to do it yourself. if should only take a couple of years.

i'll apologize for this sounding pissy, but i get so tired of people comparing working on their bike to tying their shoes. no, it's not rocket science but it does require some specialized tools and some experience. if it were that easy, then no one would need people like me. and believe me...some of you definitely have the need.

and if you can't see that local shops offer something that online shops can't just by actually being someplace you can bring your bike and your needs, you won't ever get it.


----------



## PlatyPius (Feb 1, 2009)

cxwrench said:


> $15.00 is too much? really? do you own a truing stand? they cost $260.00 and we have 3 of them. do you know how to true a wheel...correctly? every mechanic in our shop is an accomplished wheel builder and will do a great job truing your wheel. our minimum wheel truing charge is $20.00. we do provide free truing for the life of the wheel if we built it, but if you're too cheap to pay $20.00 for 15-20 minutes minimum work, then learn how to do it yourself. if should only take a couple of years.
> 
> i'll apologize for this sounding pissy, but i get so tired of people comparing working on their bike to tying their shoes. no, it's not rocket science but it does require some specialized tools and some experience. if it were that easy, then no one would need people like me. and believe me...some of you definitely have the need.
> 
> and if you can't see that local shops offer something that online shops can't just by actually being someplace you can bring your bike and your needs, you won't ever get it.


...and then these people wonder why so many bike shop people have "attitudes". I've been nurturing my surly attitude over the past 3+ years of shop ownership. It's developing nicely.


----------



## JasperL (Aug 21, 2011)

BoostTed said:


> I was able to ride a few different models and feel which one fits my riding style and preference. Each bike feels different and I wouldnt have known that if buying online.


This was easily worth any money we might have saved online. My wife tried at least a half dozen models at several shops and finally found one that actually fit. She knew within a few hundred yards of the shop that it was the right bike for her at that time. I'm sure she would have been OK with any of them, but this one actually FITS her, and she has ridden 1,000 miles or so as a true beginner with no issues. 

Everyone is different, but I'd feel like I'm stealing to use the inventory and staff of a local bike shop, that required a pretty significant investment on their part, and then buy online. We also got excellent service at three of the four local shops, though, so it was an easy decision to buy from any one of them. 

There WAS one (Trek) shop staffed by a bunch of punk racer kids..... they weren't getting a dime of our money.


----------



## Dave Cutter (Sep 26, 2012)

TripleB said:


> I'm someone who has very little knowledge of quality bikes*. Would you advise me to buy locally or do you think it would be OK to purchase online (_max budget probably $900; not sure what type of bike yet, will be riding 90% road/10% packed dirt_)?


Last question 1st. Many of the posts here at this forum are titled towards road bikes. The packed dirt.... could mean some other kind of bike... and/or the mountain bike sport... which is a little different from road cycling. Take your time and learn more about cycling before you jump in with your wallet wide open.

I live in a city.... and just about every type and most common brands of bicycles are readily available. This time of year I think I can even beat many of the on-line prices. As bicycle shops are just a bit slow. 

I looked around at all the local shops before I chose what I wanted... and decided where to get it. I'd start with hitting all the local bicycle shops.... NOT big box stores that also sell toys and grocery's... just bicycle shops. 

As you look and learn about bicycles and cycling... you may find a bicycle style, model, and even paint theme that just sort of calls to you.... the decision makes itself. 

Cycling is a great no impact (not counting crashes and wrecks) sport. Welcome to the sport... and the forum.


----------



## carlislegeorge (Mar 28, 2004)

I think this other thread best answers this question for the first time buyer: http://forums.roadbikereview.com/bikes-frames-forks/first-bike-finally-purchased-299725.html


----------



## froze (Sep 15, 2002)

Dave Cutter said:


> I live in a city.... and just about every type and most common brands of bicycles are readily available. This time of year I think I can even beat many of the on-line prices. As bicycle shops are just a bit slow.
> 
> I looked around at all the local shops before I chose what I wanted... and decided where to get it. I'd start with hitting all the local bicycle shops.... NOT big box stores that also sell toys and grocery's... just bicycle shops.
> 
> Cycling is a great no impact (not counting crashes and wrecks) sport. Welcome to the sport... and the forum.


I think it depends on where you live, where I live now in Fort Wayne Indiana the local bike shops sale prices this time of the year are a joke compared to on line prices even with their off season sales. Keep in mind too that off season sales also means better prices on line because they too are slow and having year end sales. While I do shop locally, most of the time they either don't have what I'm looking for or I can save at least 30% going online, but occasionally I do find a good deal at an LBS. Of course small inexpensive items it doesn't really pay to go online unless the LBS's in town can't get it. I do prefer to buy locally and weigh out the savings vs convenience of getting the item from an LBS, but I probably buy roughly 66% of my stuff online.

For some reason tire prices at any of my LBS's in town suck big time, I can save at least 50% going online!

And yes, welcome to the sport, and if you ever have a question, no matter how stupid it may sound (remember, no question is a stupid question...ok fine, some questions could be really stupid), but seriously if you don't know ask, maybe some of us don't always get a long with one another all the time or agree on all things here, but what we all have in common here is to help our fellow cyclists no matter the experience level. Cycling does have a lot of opinions that vary from one cyclist to the next, neither may be wrong, you have to decide which fits your personality/need the best.


----------



## carlislegeorge (Mar 28, 2004)

I always compare on-line prices. Then I give my favorite LBS the opportunity to match or beat on-line. Sometimes, most often, they do. I believe this is called something like "earning your return business" and they don't exhibit any hard feelings when they can't deliver the lowest price.


----------



## joeyrentrunwrite (Jan 17, 2013)

I totally agree. On top of all those things, supporting your local small business is huge these days. Also-some places even have a service where they'll come help you if you get a flat. You can't get that online!


----------



## froze (Sep 15, 2002)

joeyrentrunwrite said:


> I totally agree. On top of all those things, supporting your local small business is huge these days. Also-some places even have a service where they'll come help you if you get a flat. You can't get that online!


Come to help you if you have flat? You're kidding right? You have to call "road service" to help you? What is the younger generation coming to? In reality very few LBS's will come out to you for a flat, and this is a new thing because I know that just 5 years ago and more NO ONE would EVER come out to help you. That's right, we old timers had to know how to fix our own flats, what a concept, nor did we call our mommies...err I mean wives to come get us when we flatted, heck for about 36 years of my 40 years of riding I never had a phone with me, and I stopped carrying it last season because I didn't like the calls I was getting and feeling like I had to answer it because it might be important.

In regards to an LBS beating on line prices, where I live they refuse to that stating they give service after the sale...funny, so do on line stores. I've never had a problem returning a product I bought on line due to not being what I thought it was, didn't fit, or a warranty issue, or some such problem. I can't believe that in this modern age that some of you are scared to buy on line, but your too scared to fix a flat! I buy all sorts of stuff on line not even related to cycling and never had a problem. Lucky? Perhaps, but I don't think I'm unusually lucky, I think most people have had my kind of success otherwise buying stuff on line would not be a thing a lot of people would be willing to do.


----------



## angelo1100 (Aug 24, 2012)

Been riding mountainbikes for about 18 years, decided I wanted to add riding on the road. Glad I went to a local shop for advice. 
I could buy anything MTB on line cause I know exactly what I need and how I intend to use it, the road biking stuff is different and an experienced shop can really help a beginner. Good luck


----------



## kjdhawkhill (Jan 29, 2011)

froze said:


> I stopped carrying it last season because I didn't like the calls I was getting and feeling like I had to answer it because it might be important.


Not to be an A-hole, but your phone does have an off button, right? You wouldn't know the voicemail is there any sooner than had you left the phone at home. 

And - 

You can still have the mommy/wife bail-out option if a hub freezes up, you wreck and break a fork or tibia, or you ham-fist your front wheel into the shape of a potato chip.


----------



## kjdhawkhill (Jan 29, 2011)

perpetuum_mobile said:


> The last time I visited a LBS they charged me $15 for truing a wheel that was only slightly out of true. $15 for a 3 minute job? Really? I hope they go bankrupt.


The last time I took a wheel in to be trued they charged me $8 for a complete rebuild of the wheel (no re-lacing or broken parts). I'm happy with my LBS, so much so that even though its three miles further than the most LOCAL shop, I'll gladly take my bike in for repairs there. 

Maybe buying a bike, a trailer, a trainer, a computer, some lights, a helmet, several pairs of gloves, two pairs of shoes, a shop jersey, four tires and so on.... has earned the under-priced wheel re-build. That applies even though they know I mostly ride in bibshorts I bought online. 

If you had mastered the skill to true your own wheel in three minutes would you have even taken the wheel in?


----------



## AndrwSwitch (May 28, 2009)

Looks like the OP hasn't been back to this thread since he started it. :wink5:

I gotta say, if someone asked me to do a job for them that was very easy but required me to own a piece of capital equipment that I bought to do the job, I'd charge. Otherwise, wtf am I doing spending money on the piece of equipment?? Let alone on a job that took a little skill development to do well...

I do most of my own work but I appreciate shops as a resource I can go to when something is bigger than I want to take on, or I'm too busy to realistically get to it or whatever. I'm not offended that they charge me to do something that I decided I didn't want to do or wouldn't get to. I still value that I'm getting it done; it's only reasonable that I have to pay for the service.

I'm also a member (paid) of a coop so I can use their truing stands, and I sometimes spend money on parts there too. I have some kickass green crank arms on my 'cross bike that came out of a sale bin on their counter about a year ago. 

I also have shops I don't go to, or only go to in a bind. I have a bit of an embarrassment of riches in living in Seattle, but it's not like I think all bike shop owners and mechanics are saints or something. 

I have a couple bikes I bought without looking at alternatives, mostly a price-driven choice. I got them used, not online, but in terms of giving up the value-added of trying a bunch of different bikes, I think it's not that different in this context. I'm actually pretty happy with both. I also have a bike that I bought after promising myself I'd "do it right," in terms of trying a bunch of bikes and buying my favorite. Maybe I didn't stretch a buck as far, but I learned a lot doing that process and it's the first time I really nailed my size in a road bike. So I can see both approaches to buying a bike, and I'm hesitant to call one "better," although I certainly would make different recommendations to different people.


----------



## demonrider (Jul 18, 2012)

From my experience, it takes time to find a good LBS, but it is totally worth it both to do business locally and have actual humans in the flesh you can rely on and deal with.

When I first got into cycling, I bought a bike that was alien to me from a shop that mainly wanted to sell things but not necessarily provide "service". Last straw was when a friend of mine came over and instantly fixed a problem I'd had since I bought the bike; before it got fixed by my buddy, I had taken it back a dozen times for "a quarter turn" of the barrel adjuster on the RD. The actual problem was with a broken cable housing that was stretching the shift-cable and causing the chain to bounce around in certain gears. They also had a tendency to suggest "upgrades" mere weeks after selling me the bike. Needless to say, I decided to stop bleeding money in the wrong place and take my business elsewhere.

My current LBS is great, they trust me and I them... Nobody is stubborn about delays or prices. When I go in for a quick fix of something that is beyond my (still newbie) self, they don't schedule me in, instead the next available mechanic fixes whatever is wrong with my bike and charges nothing for it; Of course these are bikes I got from this very shop but since I buy most of my bikes from these guys, they fix my other bikes for free as well. 

Having said all that, if the price difference between what I want is too great between LBS and online (hundreds of dollars *after* tax) then I get it online, for example a groupset for a frame that I'm buying from the LBS.


----------



## peterbotwin (Jan 30, 2013)

In general, I think buyingonline is better - because you spend less time and have bogger variety of goods. But concerning bikes and it's parts i prefer offline


----------



## matty1 (Feb 18, 2013)

Local bike shops help where internet can't. I love my LBS.


----------



## zantaff (Feb 18, 2013)

I was going thru my neighborhood and found a bike in my neighbor's yard that looked unused. I got up the courage to ask them about it, and wound up with a free mtn bike. So, I'd go for local.


----------



## froze (Sep 15, 2002)

matty1 said:


> Local bike shops help where internet can't. I love my LBS.


Nonsense. Most internet sites will answer any problem you might have via e-mail or the phone. The people they hire for the most part are not village idiots who sold shoes at Walmart and wouldn't know a bicycle from a skate board. If internet stores hired morons like that they wouldn't be in business. I've gotten BETTER more knowledgeable help from internet stores than I have from a lot of LBS's!!!


----------



## crowlett (Mar 12, 2013)

Research at local shop and if they are way out of line on price then I buy online, local shops do not make a lot on bikes so I do go in and buy odds and ends and have them work on all of my bike tune ups to give them my support.


----------



## CheapTrek (Dec 23, 2011)

Let me know when the next Bikes Direct group ride in the Warren County, NJ area is. I'll be there. 

I guess if you're geared that way and fiscal pragmatism is your priority, it makes perfect sense. 

I'm not.


----------



## PJ352 (Dec 5, 2007)

crowlett said:


> Research at local shop and if they are way out of line on price then I buy online, local shops do not make a lot on bikes so I do go in and buy odds and ends and have them work on all of my bike tune ups to give them my support.


Kudos to you for supporting your LBS, but 'researching' (using the LBS's time/ resources), then buying online is just not cool (IMHO). 

Plus, by opting to buy online, you're essentially rewarding the guys you CAN'T tap as resources for your research (thus the lower overhead/ cost). Many don't even publish phone numbers.


----------



## y2kota (Feb 25, 2013)

Love your LBS and they'll love you! 

After reading some of the threads here about buying bikes, frames, wheels and nightmares with the customer service. LBS gets my vote!


----------



## froze (Sep 15, 2002)

PJ352 said:


> Kudos to you for supporting your LBS, but 'researching' (using the LBS's time/ resources), then buying online is just not cool (IMHO).
> 
> Plus, by opting to buy online, you're essentially rewarding the guys you CAN'T tap as resources for your research (thus the lower overhead/ cost). Many don't even publish phone numbers.


More nonsense. 

A lot of people go into auto retailers, furniture stores, electronic stores, etc, ask questions, go to a different store, ask more questions, and buy from whomever gave them the best deal. It's called competition. If the LBS can't handle it then they need to either lower their prices or leave town. Truth is that LBS's still count for about 78% of all the bike business in the USA while the internet is only 4% so I doubt their hurting because of the internet, in fact retail box stores hurt the LBS a lot more then the internet does. BUT, internet sales is growing and it effects ALL types of retail store businesses, not just bike stores. It's the wave of the future as the computer and internet world takes over. People pissed and moaned when Walmart came into being, but it's competition, fact of life, and eventually Walmart will either decrease in size or be gone because internet sales could run them out of town, but we're looking at least 20 years into the future. Internet helped run Circuit City out of business and Best Buys is next. This is how business evolves. But LBS's will always have a place in your town.


----------



## PJ352 (Dec 5, 2007)

froze said:


> More nonsense.
> 
> *A lot of people go into auto retailers, furniture stores, electronic stores, etc, ask questions, go to a different store, ask more questions, and buy from whomever gave them the best deal. It's called competition.* If the LBS can't handle it then they need to either lower their prices or leave town. Truth is that LBS's still count for about 78% of all the bike business in the USA while the internet is only 4% so I doubt their hurting because of the internet, in fact retail box stores hurt the LBS a lot more then the internet does. BUT, internet sales is growing and it effects ALL types of retail store businesses, not just bike stores. It's the wave of the future as the computer and internet world takes over. People pissed and moaned when Walmart came into being, but it's competition, fact of life, and eventually Walmart will either decrease in size or be gone because internet sales could run them out of town, but we're looking at least 20 years into the future. Internet helped run Circuit City out of business and Best Buys is next. This is how business evolves. But LBS's will always have a place in your town.


Two key differences you're overlooking. 1) The way I read it, your example pits brick and mortar retailers against like retailers, so (IMO) fair play. 2) Intent matters. If someone starts off their bike search visiting LBS's, asking questions and doing test rides knowing they'll likely buy online, they aren't playing fair and rewarding the guys that do nothing beyond shipping a bike in a box - no LBS pre/ post services offered or provided. It's a no brainer why they got that "better deal". But sans the services, is it _really_?

This is a long standing argument here and really comes down to little more than someone seeing a bike purchase as being similar to buying a microwave or fridge. Since we _ride_ bikes and have to fit on them, it's important to get ALL aspects of the purchase right, including other support services like setup/ tuning, subsequent adjustments, warranty assistance (if needed). 

If you doubt the value of LBS services, you haven't read the numerous threads/ posts from members who purchased online literally at a loss as to how to remedy any number of issues, from simple drivetrain adjustments to fit issues.

So, not nonsense at all. Rather, real world problems/ pitfalls for noobs buying online.


----------



## froze (Sep 15, 2002)

PJ352 said:


> Two key differences you're overlooking. 1) The way I read it, your example pits brick and mortar retailers against like retailers, so (IMO) fair play. 2) Intent matters. If someone starts off their bike search visiting LBS's, asking questions and doing test rides knowing they'll likely buy online, they aren't playing fair and rewarding the guys that do nothing beyond shipping a bike in a box - no LBS pre/ post services offered or provided. It's a no brainer why they got that "better deal". But sans the services, is it _really_?
> 
> This is a long standing argument here and really comes down to little more than someone seeing a bike purchase as being similar to buying a microwave or fridge. Since we _ride_ bikes and have to fit on them, it's important to get ALL aspects of the purchase right, including other support services like setup/ tuning, subsequent adjustments, warranty assistance (if needed).
> 
> ...


You're one sided, is that because your a LBS owner? Because it sounds like you have a horse in the race. 

What you're saying is that it's ok to go into car lots test drive a car, dig for information and leave and go to a different car lot and buy a car there as long as your not doing that to an LBS? Next please.

I never doubted the value of some LBS, but be honest now, not all LBS's have value! And if your the kind of person who needs free tuneups then go get your bike at an LBS, I do my own, I don't need to take my bike if for a "free" tuneup because nothing is really free, they will get you on parts you may or may not have needed to cover the loss of the time it took to do the free tuneup, and the first tune up is generally a no brainer, it takes them 5 minutes to go through the bike and your on your way, but lifetime free tuneups is where they'll get you. I don't know of any online store that won't assist you with a warranty issue, again nonsense.

Your over stating stuff too, the posters here and at other forums by and large have positive things to say about online dealers, in fact Bikes Direct has the best complaint ratio of any online bike dealer with virtually none! All LBS's have more complaints then most online dealers!!! I've never had an issue with an online purchase except once with some rotten tubes I bought so I will never do business with them again. But hundreds of dollars spent online and one little issue with tubes is nothing, I've had far greater problems with LBS's.

I will AGREE with you that a noob should not buy online the first time buying a bike, but that's not to say they can't. But there has been plenty of first time buyers who have bought a bike online and were very happy with the purchase. The biggest problem buying a bike online for the noob is the fit, there are fit guidelines on the internet that can help a person find the right size bike, it's the same sort of fitting measurements that an LBS would do. LBS's sell stock size bikes, and the range of sizes offered by Trek (for example) is the only sizes they can get, they can't get a custom sized bike they have to deal with the factory set sizes offered...the same is true with Bikes Direct. So if you know what size bike you should be on then buying online takes all the scare out of it.

Like you, I believe in my opinion and I believe yours is nonsense, just as you think my opinion is nonsense. I don't have a problem with that, it's just voicing an opinion by the both of us for the poster to decide which way to go that suits them best.


----------



## SauronHimself (Nov 21, 2012)

PJ352 said:


> Two key differences you're overlooking. 1) The way I read it, your example pits brick and mortar retailers against like retailers, so (IMO) fair play. 2) Intent matters. If someone starts off their bike search visiting LBS's, asking questions and doing test rides knowing they'll likely buy online, they aren't playing fair and rewarding the guys that do nothing beyond shipping a bike in a box - no LBS pre/ post services offered or provided. It's a no brainer why they got that "better deal". But sans the services, is it _really_?
> 
> This is a long standing argument here and really comes down to little more than someone seeing a bike purchase as being similar to buying a microwave or fridge. Since we _ride_ bikes and have to fit on them, it's important to get ALL aspects of the purchase right, including other support services like setup/ tuning, subsequent adjustments, warranty assistance (if needed).
> 
> ...



My friend Mike has been in the car business for eight years now, and only about a year ago did he transition to being a finance manager instead of a salesman. Before the upgrade I would often hear anecdotes about customers he had who would use several hours of his time driving different vehicles. Of course, most of them never bought the first day, so he followed up with them diligently through phone calls, text messages, and emails. Despite his honest efforts, they still bought the same brand from another dealer because it was a "better deal". Unlike LBS employees, Mike was working 100% commission. If he sold a car, he'd take 30% of the front-side gross (which is the profit on just the car) or $200, whichever was greater. Most vehicles didn't have more than 6% markup in them, and with gas prices so high he'd been selling mostly $20k compact cars which have only $900-1000 markup in them, so you can imagine how difficult it was for him to hold gross and make a decent paycheck while working 50-60 hours per week. I can only imagine how frustrating that is. 

While I was shopping for my most recent bike, I'd been really interested in the Ridley Noah Di2 which was on sale for $3699 at several online retailers. The problem is that none of them carried the frame size I needed, so I called several shops that did carry it, but they wouldn't match the price. All of them said they paid $3600 for it. Okay, I can understand that, because the LBS's need to pay the bills, but then again so do car dealers and car sales people, so to me it would seem principally hypocritical to beat them up over 6% markup when you see it as a faux pas to beat up a bike shop over the same thing. However, it's not quite the same thing. The 2012 Ridley Noah Di2, for example, had an original MSRP of $5700. That's 58.3% markup from what the LBS's paid, which I find absolutely insane, and that markup is higher in absolute numbers than most new cars have. Moreover, while LBS's have to insure several tens of thousands of dollars in inventory, car dealers have to insure several million dollars in inventory and have bigger facilities for which they pay exponentially higher utility bills. 

When I bought my Focus last June, my salesman followed up with me after the sale several times. He even remembered that I loved cycling and asked me questions about that. Now, I'm sure he personally didn't care about cycling, but the fact that he remembered (or bothered to write it down in his notes) I like it showed me that he cared about his customers. Not once have I received a follow-up call from an LBS thanking me for my bike purchase or asking me how my bike was doing after a certain repair, and it's not like they didn't know how to contact me. They've all gotten my phone number and email. But guess which cycling-related entity followed up with me after my purchase to say thanks? Sean Lambert from ROL Wheels. He called me about three weeks after I bought my wheels ONLINE to say thank you and ask me how I liked them.

At the end of the day, it's either okay to proverbially beat up retailers for better deals or it's not, and we can't sit here giving exceptions to one group because we say it's different when in reality it isn't.


----------



## PJ352 (Dec 5, 2007)

froze said:


> You're one sided, is that because your a LBS owner? Because it sounds like you have a horse in the race.
> 
> What you're saying is that it's ok to go into car lots test drive a car, dig for information and leave and go to a different car lot and buy a car there as long as your not doing that to an LBS? Next please.
> 
> ...


I think anyone who falls on one side or the other of an issue is one sided, so we both are. However, I don't really think I am. If you care to trudge through my 10k plus posts, you'll see that I routinely offer advice to those contemplating an online purchase. 

Depending on the posters experience, I may (or may not) advise them to go that route. For experienced cyclists like you or I, I think it's a perfectly viable option, but to the uninitiated, IMO it's not the best option. 

To clarify my reference to shopping around (be it cars, sofas or refrigerators), I think as long as I do so with the intent that I _may _purchase from one of these places, taking someone's time and perusing their inventory is fair. If I go in knowing I won't, it isn't. So, intent matters. 

Same goes for online shopping. But when someone uses a LBS, then buys online (knowing full well that was what they were going to do in the first place), again, not fair. 

Re: your comment that not all LBS's have value, that was a predictable response. Everyone that promotes shopping online extolls the virtues of doing so and pans the LBS as pretty near useless. Fact is, some businesses are reputable and well managed, others are not. LBS's (and online retailers) are no different. But IMO when someone decides to buy online, they're essentially rewarding the guys that do _less_. 

The ONLY thing an online retailer can offer a buyer is a cheaper product (albeit with hidden costs) in a box, nearly no services included. And that warranty assistance you spoke of... take pics and email them, then _maybe_ ship the bike back at your cost and they'll decide what (if any) remedy will be provided. Even simple stem swaps done at LBS's in minutes take several emails (and days) to accomplish online. 

We do agree that noobs should not buy a first bike online, and this being a beginner's corner makes it a key point.

Please sight your sources where BD has near zero complaints. I think you've been talking to BD Mike too much. :wink5:

And, I never said what you posted was nonsense. You said mine was. But as you say, members can read through all that's been offered and decide for themselves what's best for them.


----------



## froze (Sep 15, 2002)

SauronHimself said:


> Sean Lambert from ROL Wheels. He called me about three weeks after I bought my wheels ONLINE to say thank you and ask me how I liked them.
> 
> At the end of the day, it's either okay to proverbially beat up retailers for better deals or it's not, and we can't sit here giving exceptions to one group because we say it's different when in reality it isn't.


Glad you mentioned that wheel thing because Peter White made a set of wheels for me and did the same thing, all online. Peter may be bit rough towards certain people who I call dummies, but he is good at what he does and was courteous enough to follow up. I bought a helmet from Niagara Bicycle and had it shipped ground, and the helmet arrived broken, I called them, they immediately next day air'd me a replacement helmet with a return label to send the damaged one back. So from the time I got the first helmet to the time I got the second 2 days elapsed.

There are companies that will go out of their way to make customers happy. The computer internet world is interesting, today you can review any company you do business with, and companies know this, if they give people crappy service then they'll get a crappy review which will be seen by other potential customers.


----------



## froze (Sep 15, 2002)

PJ352 said:


> I think anyone who falls on one side or the other of an issue is one sided, so we both are. However, I don't really think I am. If you care to trudge through my 10k plus posts, you'll see that I routinely offer advice to those contemplating an online purchase.
> 
> Depending on the posters experience, I may (or may not) advise them to go that route. For experienced cyclists like you or I, I think it's a perfectly viable option, but to the uninitiated, IMO it's not the best option.
> 
> ...



You read a lot into my post that wasn't there young man. All I said about LBS that not all of them are valued that means that some are worthless. I've been to worthless LBS's and all the LBS's in the town where I live now are worthless. I had a fantastic LBS when I lived in Bakersfield California and in the 70's and 80's had a couple of real nice ones in Santa Barbara, so no, not all are bad, but some are.

Intent? hmmm, ok, I would never go into an LBS looking for a some part knowing that I'm going to pick their brain then leave and get it cheaper on the internet. And like you if you read enough of my posts you would know I've said that before because I know a lot of these sales people are paid commission and because they gave the advice I was seeking they get my business. But since the post wasn't that carefully worded it sounded like you were against people going into an LBS or two or three and not finding what they were looking for and instead got a bike off the internet was somehow scamming the LBS's. HOWEVER, people do do that with cars, they will go to a dealer test drive some cars then get it the car cheaper on line, either by finding another retailer that has the model for less or order it directly and have it shipped to a local dealer.

We live in the computer world, this sort of thing is bound to happen, and it's going to happen more not less as time goes by. Not saying it's nice, but there's no law against it and so it's legal. But again, the internet is not hurting LBS's

I can assume from your very negative opinion against on line retailers that you would never ever buy anything off the internet?

And what hidden costs are you talking about from internet retailers? YOU ARE MOST DEFINITELY an owner of an LBS, only an owner would ever say such things to intentionally mislead potential buyers away from the internet retailers. There are no hidden costs online, I've ordered plenty of stuff not to be fooled by such a comment. Sure if there is a warranty issue with a part it could take 3 to 5 days to get a new part back. But who buys off the internet thinking that a warrantied part will be beamed back to them instantly? We're not living in the Star Trek era yet! So a week delay is part of the territory. If you don't want a delay and want to pay at least 30% more plus tax for the part then go to an LBS and get the part. I had a problem with a cycling computer I bought from an LBS, I took it back, their response was...call the manufacture they'll take care of it! I had to call the manufacture, I had to send it back, I had to wait for the new part to come...why do I have to go to an LBS to get that kind of service when I can get that on line and pay less?

And you're right, you didn't say my posts were nonsense...you implied it quiet heavily though, I happen to be more direct which sometimes gets me into trouble from the mods here, but sometimes the trouble is worth it. Weird aren't I?


----------



## PJ352 (Dec 5, 2007)

froze said:


> You read a lot into my post that wasn't there *young man*.


Thanks. If only that were true... 



froze said:


> I can assume from your very negative opinion against on line retailers that you would never ever buy anything off the internet?


Not at all. I buy most of my wearable items, some components, wheelsets, maintenance items online. But I've been at this a long time and know full well the possible repercussions of buying online. 

My fundamental point was that people should play fair and not use someone's time/ resources knowing they aren't going to patronize an establishment. It's really as simple as that.

And no, I have no links to LBS's, no horse in this race (as you say) and fully acknowledge that some LBS's aren't stellar in their services. Still, the fact remains that buying online has a number of pitfalls, especially when it comes to the uninitiated purchasing complete bikes. More on that below... 



froze said:


> And what hidden costs are you talking about from internet retailers? YOU ARE MOST DEFINITELY an owner of an LBS, only an owner would ever say such things to intentionally mislead potential buyers away from the internet retailers. There are no hidden costs online, I've ordered plenty of stuff not to be fooled by such a comment. Sure if there is a warranty issue with a part it could take 3 to 5 days to get a new part back. But who buys off the internet thinking that a warrantied part will be beamed back to them instantly? We're not living in the Star Trek era yet! So a week delay is part of the territory. If you don't want a delay and want to pay at least 30% more plus tax for the part then go to an LBS and get the part. I had a problem with a cycling computer I bought from an LBS, I took it back, their response was...call the manufacture they'll take care of it! I had to call the manufacture, I had to send it back, I had to wait for the new part to come...why do I have to go to an LBS to get that kind of service when I can get that on line and pay less?


I already addressed part of this post by saying I have no links to LBS's and purchase some items online. I've been clear in my viewpoints re: online versus LBS's, so there's no misleading anyone. 

The hidden costs of buying online are numerous. Final assembly, tuning, tweaks to fit - all can eat into that online cost savings - and this assumes sizing is right. If not, the buyer decides whether to "make the bike fit" or return it, at his/ her cost. Because there's a distance involved, any problems with the product take days (or more) to remedy. 

And speaking of experiences, my SO had a problem with a rear wheel (freehub). Called the LBS, they said to bring the wheelset in and when I did they swapped them for a new set hanging on the wall. Done deal in less than 1/2 a day downtime. How long do you estimate that taking with an online retailer??

I know, you've already addressed this with a comment that basically says you expect inconveniences from buying online, because you paid less. Goes back to what I said about the ONLY advantage to buying online is price.

Finding a reputable LBS isn't difficult, especially with some guidance on forum such as this. And when noobs are looking to purchase a first road bike, I think the services offered are invaluable and justify the added cost (which in some cases, long term, is minimal). 

We could argue pros and cons forever, but (as we both mentioned),we throw our thoughts/ opinions out there and members can decide for themselves which way to go.


----------



## froze (Sep 15, 2002)

PJ352 said:


> Thanks. If only that were true...
> 
> 
> Not at all. I buy most of my wearable items, some components, wheelsets, maintenance items online.
> ...


Well at least the young man comment made your day!!!

So you do buy on line, why? I can only assume price. You probably shopped the internet and LBS's looking for a wheel that you felt would fit your needs and picking the brains of those where you went. Yet you bought online...interesting, there's a word for that and it escapes my mind....hmmmm.

Anywho, the pitfalls of buying online have actually been LESS then I've had buying in an LBS!! Sure there is the potential for down time but I own more then one bike so it's not issue for me. As far as buying a bike online 99% of all very expensive custom built bikes are done online, you don't hear a quip about problems doing so. When I get employed again I will be buying a Motobecane Titanium Ultegra equipped bike from Bikes Direct for $2400 range. If by some slim chance I error on the size, I send it back pay $150 and get a another one sent...there is no titanium bike on the market equipped with Ultegra that even after paying the additional $150 for shipping that will come within $2,000 of that price!!! So even spending $150 to send it back I'm still way ahead.

Again, I've had better service from online stores then I've had from most LBS's. And finding a reputable LBS can be troublesome, like I mentioned before there are no good LBS's in my city; there was a great one in Bakersfield Ca, the only good one, when I lived there; there were no good LBS's in Palmdale/Lancaster/Mojave area when I use to live there though that may have changed after all the years since I've been there. So depending on where you live you may not have a good LBS, you may have to travel 110 miles like I would have to to get to one and spend all that gas when you could just order it online and not deal with idiots and very high prices like those in my city.


----------



## PJ352 (Dec 5, 2007)

froze said:


> Well at least the young man comment made your day!!!


Not quite, but it was a nice thought. 



froze said:


> So you do buy on line, why? I can only assume price. *You probably shopped *the internet and* LBS's looking for a wheel that you felt would fit your needs and picking the brains of those where you went. * Yet you bought online...interesting, there's a word for that and it escapes my mind....hmmmm.


Yes, I (selectively) shop online - for both price and selection. The bold statement is incorrect. I don't pick anyone's brains or take any of their time. My research is done on my own. 



froze said:


> Anywho, the pitfalls of buying online have actually been LESS then I've had buying in an LBS!! Sure there is the potential for down time but I own more then one bike so it's not issue for me. As far as buying a bike online 99% of all very expensive custom built bikes are done online, you don't hear a quip about problems doing so. When I get employed again I will be buying a Motobecane Titanium Ultegra equipped bike from Bikes Direct for $2400 range. If by some slim chance I error on the size, I send it back pay $150 and get a another one sent...there is no titanium bike on the market equipped with Ultegra that even after paying the additional $150 for shipping that will come within $2,000 of that price!!! So even spending $150 to send it back I'm still way ahead.


I completely agree with you, but you're missing what I see as a fundamental point here. We aren't noobs and don't need to discuss our use/ fit requirements with anyone. Odds are, we know going into the purchase what we want and need. That's almost never the case with noobs, so this being beginner's corner, I tailor my advice accordingly. 



froze said:


> Again, I've had better service from online stores then I've had from most LBS's. And finding a reputable LBS can be troublesome, like I mentioned before there are no good LBS's in my city; there was a great one in Bakersfield Ca, the only good one, when I lived there; there were no good LBS's in Palmdale/Lancaster/Mojave area when I use to live there though that may have changed after all the years since I've been there. So depending on where you live you may not have a good LBS, you may have to travel 110 miles like I would have to to get to one and spend all that gas when you could just order it online and not deal with idiots and very high prices like those in my city.


I think it's a given that we choose the best option among those available, so if someone lives in the boonies or an area where there are no decent shops, there's little choice but to go the online route. We've strayed quite a bit off the OP's topic, but I'd hazard a guess that they have shops in their area, hence their OP.

Even when there are no other options available, I think a noob needs to take some steps to ensure they'll get sizing/ fit right. And while there are online resources, IMO they aren't good resources and are more apt to confuse. So _maybe_ that 110 mile trek to the LBS is worth considering.


----------



## froze (Sep 15, 2002)

PJ352 said:


> Not quite, but it was a nice thought.
> 
> 
> Yes, I (selectively) shop online - for both price and selection. The bold statement is incorrect. I don't pick anyone's brains or take any of their time. My research is done on my own.
> ...


I haven't disagreed with your sentiments about a noob, in fact I stated earlier that if a noob felt uncertain as to whether or not he could get sizing right either by looking up how on the internet or posting here how, then they should go into an LBS. But fitting is not rocket science, if a noob spends enough time researching they can get an accurate picture of what size bike would best work for them. I understand for some doing research like that is intimating, and for those to fearful of such studying then they need to go to an LBS.

Information like fitting, or even repairing/replacing something on a bike is all over the internet, something we didn't have when I was starting up, I had to go to the library, but books are not the same as a video, but books do work I happen to like videos better. But I knew people who just wouldn't study a book on how to do something to save their lives, and like books the internet could be intimating to a few. Also the internet sites and forums like this offer a wealth of information and opinions about what others think of certain bikes and components etc. 

I offered that same information to the noob so he could, if he chose to, figure out how to fit himself to either buy online and save a boat load of money or get a far better bike for the same money, or be armed with useful information when he goes into an LBS to look for a bike. Not all LBS are real good about fitting, I bought a used bike from and older gentleman who walked into a local LBS back in 1984 to get a deal on closeout bikes, the sales jerk sold him an 84 Fuji Club that was two sizes to big and told him that's how road bikes are suppose to fit, when in reality it was the last model year left and the sales jerk wanted it off the floor. He rode the bike for about 5 miles and gave up thinking riding was not for him due to the fact he couldn't get use to the to tall bike and it became garage art for 28 years before I bought it. So I highly recommend to a noob to try to figure out what size range of bike would be idea, then the LBS should double check to make sure that size is correct. I don't think some size sites are all that confusing at all, here is one such easy to use site with pictures and reading to guide a person: Fit Calculator - Competitive Cyclist

Again, if a noob is too intimated by doing the fitting process given above then certainly go see an LBS.

Anyway, you're as young as you think you are.


----------



## Carverbiker (Mar 6, 2013)

If you do not know anything about bikes then I would suggest you go to the best bike shop in your area. They can help you get started in the right direction. I know that online can be a bit less expensive but if you go to a good shop their advice will be worth the difference (avoiding mistakes, rides, learning the sport) as you learn about cycling.

Having said that, as I have have grown in the sport and since I do all of my own repair work, and the extensive info available on the forums and internet, I do not need the expertise offered by the many excellent bike shops in the area nearly as often. So while I still patronize those shops for the convenience of having it now ( mostly nutrition, tubes, and lube) and the very seldom second opinion, the majority of my dollars are spent online. IMO I do not perceive there to be any economic value added offered by the LBS when I walk in and ask them for Product XYZ which they have not helped me determine I need/want in any way, only to have them tell me they will have to order it and come back in .....days. Typically they will also try to tell me that some new XYZ is better and that is what I should be buying (almost always is the newewst thing they got in and is it ever cool!) I now need to come back make another trip, spend my time and gas to pick up an item when the store is open and pay extra due to sales tax. What incentive is there for me to do this, when I could just have the product delivered to my door potentially faster and maybe even cheaper as well?

I do have a serious problem with people who buy online, experience some type of difficulty with installation, need a bike fit, wrong product etc. and want the LBS to make it work and do it for free/reduced cost. If you can not carry it through all the way then be prepared to pay the going rate to have it made right. But if you are not using their services in anyway why is it required to buy from LBS?

Increasingly, I have seen the customers at the LBS 's I frequent are either new riders/very casual cyclists needing the advice/services or to a much lesser degree cycling enthusiasts that are wealthier/extremely busy/not mechanically inclined/desire to do repairs. The large gap in between is increasingly going online. I am sure it would be highly frustrating for LBS's (the really good ones) to see customers they have properly educated in the sport "graduate" to online/DIY but it seems to be the natural progression of many consumers. I wish it where different, as I value the social, diversity, and cultural elements offered by the varied LBS's but any business that requires "support" is not long for this world. The toothpaste is out of he tube IMO.


----------



## froze (Sep 15, 2002)

Carverbiker said:


> If you do not know anything about bikes then I would suggest you go to the best bike shop in your area. They can help you get started in the right direction.
> 
> I do have a serious problem with people who buy online, experience some type of difficulty with installation, need a bike fit, wrong product etc. and want the LBS to make it work and do it for free/reduced cost. If you can not carry it through all the way then be prepared to pay the going rate to have it made right. But if you are not using their services in anyway why is it required to buy from LBS?
> 
> The large gap in between is increasingly going online. I am sure it would be highly frustrating for LBS's (the really good ones) to see customers they have properly educated in the sport "graduate" to online/DIY but it seems to be the natural progression of many consumers. I wish it where different, as I value the social, diversity, and cultural elements offered by the varied LBS's but any business that requires "support" is not long for this world. The toothpaste is out of he tube IMO.


I agree with this entirely.

We live in a rapidly changing world where technology is slowly taking us at least some of the way out of stores and I happen to like the interpersonal relationships, but at the same time inflation goes up and the incomes stay down or go lower and we can't keep up. This is why Walmart flourshes, though I hate their quality. Cycling can be an expensive hobby, and in order to save money we have to do what we can. The internet some day may take at least 50% of the business away from retailers, but more and more people are being raised up on text messaging and don't want a face to face encounter with people, and those will be much more inclined to buy on line. So unless something happens to our technology and our youth can no longer stare into their phones texting as if the rest of the world is not around them, internet sales will skyrocket. It's a new world, not one I much care for, but I have to change with the times and accept it for what it is.


----------



## chudson0616 (Mar 8, 2013)

I was at my LBS yesterday and had a long talk with the owner about this very topic. He has been in business for 39 years and has seen first hand what the online market is doing to local guy like himself. He has gotten to the point where he has to question even fitting someone for a helmet or saddle because he is afraid that they are going to get fitted, say something along the lines of "Ill think about it", Then a week later see that same person riding by with the helmet that was purchased online for cheaper.

Granted, buying online is usually cheaper but you wont get the knowledge and personal experience like you will at a LBS. Just my .02


----------

