# Finding a good LBS



## daletron3030 (Jan 27, 2014)

Hey everyone. After constant hours of researching it seems almost everyone's emphasis is to find a good LBS. I went to a few finding my fiances road bike 400 miles away.. but really couldn't find any, except one that went the extra mile to fit my fiance to the bike perfectly

1) first bike shop i went to for my own maybe a few months back.. i bought a simple single speed.. maybe because it wasn't a road bike (should it really matter though??), he basically asked how tall i was and sold me a bike that he said should fit me.

2) first bike shop with the fiance.. same thing. they asked how tall she was.. they looked at some sort of reference guide to see what height bikes would fit her and that's about it

3) 2nd bike shope with the fiance.. they went the whole mile.. put her on a trainer.. measured her everywhere.. even measured her butt bones to get her a good seat. (this is where we bought the bike from).. BUT after all this hard work.. they didn't even make sure the bike was installed properly as the chain fell off as i was just trying to switch from the smaller cog to the bigger cog.. i had to go to bike store #4 to fix it... AND when she actually rode the bike.. it felt too tall for her. i can't assume it's the employees fault as we weren't able to physically ride it outside of the trainer

4) got the chain fixed here.. they went over the bike pretty well im assuming and i'm hoping the bike works great now (had to fly back home.. the fiance's not the type to notice if it's acting funny or not). now when they refit the bike for her.. they just did a general look about.. asking her to put the pedal at the 6pm position.. and then parallel.. and that's it.. no real sort of measuring. but they did get it to a position that she was comfortable with and also raised the handlebars a bit


With all that being said.. 1 out of 4 bike shops actually had a trainer and went the extra mile to REALLY measure her out to get the perfect fit.. even though they failed to do that properly...

so i guess i'm asking you guys... since you guys emphasize on bike-fit so much, would you guys even buy a bike from a shop that didn't go the extra mile to really fit the bike to you? from what i'm getting.. most bike shops will just "eye it out" on you to see if it fits.. and i'm wondering where the heck do you guys find such good LBS shops lol. 

anyway planning to go bike shopping over the weekend and if i get the same thing in my area.. employees just "eyeing" the size on me.. just not sure if i should be purchasing from them... what do you guys think?

sorry for the essay!


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## eugenetsang (Jun 9, 2011)

If i am reading this correctly, did you say you went and purchased a bike 400 miles away? If so, WOW. That seems to be a little extreme.

As for purchasing from a LBS, its actually 3 folds:

1. Supporting your local small business community. And get to know your staff thats working on your bike.

2. Trying out all the different models/equipment

3. Usually they offer limited of time free service or life time free service on your purchase.


As for myself... I purchased my ride at my LBS. Price is about the same across the board. But they offer me life time free basic service. And subsidized pricing on their more "in depth" packages. Win Win for me.

But when it comes to "Fit", I wouldn't bother using my LBS. Other than a "general" fit when i had originally purchased my bike. Making sure my saddle height, seat, and handle bar reach, were all "within" reason.

When it comes to a more "thorough" fit, I went to a fit specialist. Thats where you get the best bang for your buck... Unlike most LBS', they dont really offer that kind of service... Unless its a higher end shop that caters to that kind of clientele... Otherwise, most shops and their staff will just offer a "general" fit.


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## daletron3030 (Jan 27, 2014)

eugenetsang said:


> If i am reading this correctly, did you say you went and purchased a bike 400 miles away? If so, WOW. That seems to be a little extreme.
> 
> As for purchasing from a LBS, its actually 3 folds:
> 
> ...


haha.. well my fiancé is living 400 mi away from me at the moment.. so we went bike shopping over there for her first road bike

thx for the reply... so I guess I gotta find a specialized fitter then. now I guess my only concern is that the general fitting they give me will actually friggin fit me! I have shortlegs for my hheight and just hoping their general sizing doesn't put me on a bike too big or something..


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## eugenetsang (Jun 9, 2011)

It seems like you had the case of the bad luck when it came to looking for a reputable LBS. Where do you live that there isnt a decent bike shop within 30-100 miles from home base?


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## headloss (Mar 3, 2013)

First adult bike I bought was the wrong size, but I returned it (thank goodness for REI policy). Second bike I bought, I had no feedback/input from the guys at the shop regarding fit... none at all. That was six years ago, every bike I've bought since then was second hand (in the mean time, I figured out how to fit myself).

I got to revisit the bike shopping experience a couple of years ago when a friend wanted a bike. I think we went to five or six shops. Only one of those shops offered to swap out a stem before a test ride... that's the shop I go back to when I'm in the right geographical area.

There's nothing wrong with "eye-balling it," so long as they take the time to help you get comfortable and have a discussion with you regarding the fit. Sitting on a trainer for a 45min fit is usually something you pay extra for. You aren't looking for the 45min fit, but you aren't looking for "sure, that looks OK" either. You want a shop that is vested in making sure you are going to be reasonable comfortable and have any necessary swaps (stems, handlebars, saddle, etc.).




daletron3030 said:


> 3) 2nd bike shope with the fiance.. they went the whole mile.. put her on a trainer.. measured her everywhere.. even measured her butt bones to get her a good seat. (this is where we bought the bike from).. BUT after all this hard work.. they didn't even make sure the bike was installed properly as the chain fell off as i was just trying to switch from the smaller cog to the bigger cog.. i had to go to bike store #4 to fix it... AND when she actually rode the bike.. it felt too tall for her. i can't assume it's the employees fault as we weren't able to physically ride it outside of the trainer



Derailleurs are set up at the factory, not the bike shop (unless they build the bike from scratch or swap out parts). I wouldn't hold it against the shop too much, I'm sure they would have adjusted it free of charge had you taken it back. Most shops wait until the customer comes back for a (usually free) tuneup to make adjustments and dial everything in. The assumption is that everything is dialed in right out of the box... and usually, it is.


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## eugenetsang (Jun 9, 2011)

daletron3030 said:


> haha.. well my fiancé is living 400 mi away from me at the moment.. so we went bike shopping over there for her first road bike
> 
> thx for the reply... so I guess I gotta find a specialized fitter then. now I guess my only concern is that the general fitting they give me will actually friggin fit me! I have shortlegs for my hheight and just hoping their general sizing doesn't put me on a bike too big or something..




Got it! it all makes sense now!

As for fitting, like i had said previously. Not all bike shops offer the most thorough fit. 

Reason 1: They do not have the proper equipment

Reason 2: They do not have the proper Staff

Reason 3: They do not have the experience.



Check out this out for reference:

B.G. Fit - Get a Custom Fit Today! - Kozy's Chicago Bike Shops | Chicago Bike Stores, Bicycles, Cycling, Bike Repair


But the more "advanced" fit is not required for recreational riding... its primarily catered towards the more serious riders. So if your fiance/yourself isn't interested in competing in any weekend Crits/races... a generic fit will be best.. Otherwise, you'll be wasting your money on the more advanced fit.


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## eugenetsang (Jun 9, 2011)

Also, when it comes to picking out a bike from your LBS, usually your 2 options that you get to pick out are: frame size and drive train... Everything else are pretty generic. bar stem, handle bars, seat, and seat post...

So usually when you go for a more advanced fitting, the first things they usually change out on your stock bike are: handle bar stem (longer/shorter) depending on your reach. Seat (wider/narrower) depending on your butt bone. If you go clipless... they will adjust your shoes/cleats as needed.

So usually when manufactures sells their bikes, its sold to the general public with a "one size fits all" mentality.. Thats why the season vets will piece their parts separately.. By purchasing a bare frame and build up their bikes from the ground up. It costs more, but you get what you want. Just like when you buy a custom tailored suit as opposed to going to your local Nordstrom and buying one off the rack.


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## headloss (Mar 3, 2013)

eugenetsang said:


> Just like when you buy a custom tailored suit as opposed to going to your local Nordstrom and buying one off the rack.


That seems a bad example, given that free-tailoring is one of the benefits of shopping at Nordstrom. 
Nordstrom, in fact, would be the shop that swaps out your seat and stem on an otherwise stock bike size.

What you suggest is more like going through a complete custom bike build (such as a Waterford) vs a stock-bike and a complete fitting. One size fits all would be most bikes in the world.


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## eugenetsang (Jun 9, 2011)

Really?! Nordstrom has free tailoring?!? I need to go there from now on! Lol


As for a custom build, I was just using that as an extreme example. Most bike shops will offer recommendations to "fit" your bike to your needs. But when it comes to novice riders, they don't usually opt for that route. After spending a pretty penny on he ride, the last thing they want to do is spend even MORE money on new seat, stem, and etc.

Most of the time, they just want to get a "basic" fit and to enjoy the ride ASAP. Usually its later on in the road, after many miles and pain is when they go back for a more thorough fitting... Which leads to changing out the cockpit, wheels, and or drivetrain.


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## tednugent (Apr 26, 2010)

daletron3030 said:


> 3) 2nd bike shope with the fiance.. they went the whole mile.. put her on a trainer.. measured her everywhere.. even measured her butt bones to get her a good seat. (this is where we bought the bike from).. BUT after all this hard work.. they didn't even make sure the bike was installed properly as the chain fell off as i was just trying to switch from the smaller cog to the bigger cog.. i had to go to bike store #4 to fix it... AND when she actually rode the bike.. it felt too tall for her. i can't assume it's the employees fault as we weren't able to physically ride it outside of the trainer
> 
> 4) got the chain fixed here.. they went over the bike pretty well im assuming and i'm hoping the bike works great now (had to fly back home.. the fiance's not the type to notice if it's acting funny or not). now when they refit the bike for her.. they just did a general look about.. asking her to put the pedal at the 6pm position.. and then parallel.. and that's it.. no real sort of measuring. but they did get it to a position that she was comfortable with and also raised the handlebars a bit


Chain drops happens. You can buy a $10,000 bike, installed by a world-class mechanic... and sometimes it still happens. That's why there is a market for chain catchers.

"Felt" tall..... without details, it's really hard to make any appreciable comments.

The 6' clock & 3 o'clock, they are probably "double checking" their initial plumb bob measurement, for proper seat hight (6 o'clock) and setback (iirc, wanting the knee to be over the pedal axle at the 3 o'clock)... for the KOPS methodology.

It may sound like your fiancee had different expectations of road cycling compared to experiences growing up as a kid & teenager. (Example: the expectation if being able to sit on the seat and still able to place both feet on the ground with the bike at a vertical or near vertical position)

It may take some riding to get used to. If the LBS has womens group rides... they may be able to give her advice that she'll accept.


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## headloss (Mar 3, 2013)

eugenetsang said:


> Really?! Nordstrom has free tailoring?!? I need to go there from now on! Lol


Yep! I thought that was the reason that we pay 3x as much as Macy's. I don't think the service is offered at Nordstrom Rack though (where clothing is actually affordable).


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## obed (Jan 12, 2014)

I live in an area that there are a lot of LBS...I have probably a dozen or more with in 10 minutes of my house...some of them are huge with a wide selection and great inventory...I have had good and bad experiences within the same store... most of the time it has more to do with the employee you are dealing with (in my experience)
I have bought 3 bikes for myself and a couple for the wife since last July, and 2 of them they just said you are this tall, so you should be ok with this bike...
the others they sat us on a trainer and did some basic angle checks and did seat adjustments... I went to a bike fitter after I found out what one was and what they did...for both myself and the wife...IMO the fit was well worth the money...
and as was mentioned on all the new bikes, after about 30 days of riding we got a free service on the bike to check things out and make any adjustments needed...
I now have one guy i deal with at the main store we use and one guy I deal with at the "backup" store...


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## Rashadabd (Sep 17, 2011)

Yeah man, bike shops can be hit and miss like anything else. Since I do a lot of my own research on the bikes that interest me including test riding as many as I can, I look for shops where they have a good fitter and/or a fit machine (retul, guru, serotta) and stress that on their website (even if there is an extra charge for some fit sessions) and those that have a solid-good mechanic and a cool and laid staff. Finding someone that truly understands physiology and fitting and that takes it seriously is really key and should be high on the favorite shop characteristics list.

This is one of the reasons I stress not over-relying on a shop. Working in a bike shop alone doesn't mean you are an expert or that you will take your time to take good care of me as a consumer. People in shops can easily fail to consider all of your options (some of which might be great for you) and/or have an incentive to just direct you toward one of the bikes they sell. Once they get you to buy, folks in some shops can become less interested in whether you are on the right size or comfortable on the bike. That's just the way it is. Find a shop where they take some pride in getting you fit right. Even if they don't have the best selection or brands, buy elsehwere, but pay them to do your fitting or help you identify bikes that will fit your body and riding interests. 

Here's some general guidelines though:

Bicycle Buying Guide: Bike Shopping | Bicycling Magazine

Buying First Road Bike: Beginning Cycling | Bicycling Magazine


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## expatbrit (Oct 16, 2013)

I did this dance for myself just recently. It was really important /for me/ to get the good bike shop. I suspect that for most newer riders, it's equally as important.


I didn't know my fit, and the shop that didn't just put me in a trainer but swapped stems, checked position, and sent me out on long test rides won my trust and so my business.

I got a bike I never would have thought I'd fit; the shop that just measured me suggested I'd need at least a 620mm top tube, based on height and legs. Long arms have me on considerably smaller bikes, with long seat to bar distance.

The key was the skill of the fitter. They also set the bike up well, and I like he guys there. They didn't carry the brands I thought I wanted, but I'm very happy and glad I did go the extra miles.


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## junior1210 (May 2, 2013)

Keep in mind that the initial fit can/may/will change, especially if you're just getting started. Flexibility, core strength, and possible physical 'oddities' (like one leg shorter than the other) will change or become relevant. Many shops know this, and instead of explaining, will just get you close and tell you to come back in 500 miles and they'll dial you in better then.


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## AndrwSwitch (May 28, 2009)

When I finally bought my first well-fitting road bike, I'd already been riding the road on and off for about ten years, and off-road and commuting for a little longer. I'd also had a pro fit on the previous, too-big road bike, and knew it was too big and that I was looking for something different. That bike could be made to fit my body, but it would handle badly, or it could be set up to handle well, but that made it a little long.

I ended up visiting a few shops and riding a few bikes, basically the advice I give everyone. They pretty much all did saddle height and sent me out for a test ride. I don't feel particularly ill-served by that, actually, because I didn't want to spend a ton of time and it did give me a sense of the handling. While handlebar height is certainly important too, I think reach is the really big variable, assuming saddle height's already about right.

I actually got some pushback on sizing at the shop where I eventually bought the bike. The hipster on the sales floor wanted me to buy a 54. I couldn't quite put my finger on what I didn't like about it, but I had them build up a 52 for me. When I test-rode that, it felt a lot better and I bought it. There were some bikes I liked better, but this one was $900 and I raced it that weekend. Other brands' 'cross bikes had Sora - old Sora - shifters by that pricepoint, and I didn't want that.

Later, I helped a friend of mine get into road cycling. I'd actually never tried riding my 'cross bike on slick tires at that point, and lent it to her for a while. She loved it, but felt it was too small. I thought she was probably wrong.  When she was ready to buy, I knew the city's shops a little better so we went to another one carrying the same brand. The floor sales guy there watched her ride it up and down the street and thought it was a little big. He got her to ride a smaller one, which was a bit of a revelation for her and she bought it. So that shop managed to get her on the right size.

The shop that sponsored my team a year and a half ago appeared to include fittings with new bikes. I never bought a bike from them, so I'm not really sure. Certainly seems like it's a bit of a rarity, and maybe only a high-end thing, in my city.

Last bike I bought new, I actually demoed another of that model for about a week before buying. That was really useful because I found I'd chosen my size wrong from the geometry charts. I moved up one size and it's been better. That was a pretty expensive bike that I bought through my team deal, from the shop that sponsors us. So I'm not sure if that level of test-riding is accessible outside the competition scene.

Point being, shops are pretty variable. I think ultimately it's about getting a bike that both handles well and fits one's body well, so I think riding a lot of bikes can give really good insight even if not many shops will drag out a trainer for test-rides or even when they sell a bike.

Paying for a fit several years ago is some of the best money I've spent on cycling. So if it's included, I think it's a real value-added.

I also think I can tell if a bike fits a person just seeing them ride down the street. Getting it really dialed is more involved, but I wouldn't feel ill-served by a sales guy eyeball-guessing my size for initial test rides. My time is worth something and I don't really want to invest it in getting close fits on half a dozen bikes I'm not buying. I'd rather only do that for those in the short list. And ultimately, I end up buying the bike, and going to whatever shop I like for service. Not necessarily the same businesses for each.


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## Social Climber (Jan 16, 2013)

tednugent said:


> Chain drops happens. You can buy a $10,000 bike, installed by a world-class mechanic... and sometimes it still happens. That's why there is a market for chain catchers.


This. I'm surprised you would hold it against the shop, particularly when you didn't even take it back to them to fix in the first place. 

New bikes are going to experience shifting issues as the cables stretch and wear in. That's why a good LBS will tell you to bring the bike back in for service (free) after thirty days or so.


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## daletron3030 (Jan 27, 2014)

just wanted to say thank you to everyone that took the time to reply to this post of mine..some of you went into great detail some of the experiences you guys went through and i really appreciate it! now i feel like i got a good sense of what to look for and will keep you guys updated once i finally find some time to go bike shopping, hopefully the weekend after this!





Social Climber said:


> This. I'm surprised you would hold it against the shop, particularly when you didn't even take it back to them to fix in the first place.
> 
> New bikes are going to experience shifting issues as the cables stretch and wear in. That's why a good LBS will tell you to bring the bike back in for service (free) after thirty days or so.


we bought the bike at a shop 50 miles away (she lives in a super small city, so we ventured to a bigger city for more options).

and well.. i'm posting in the beginners corner because i'm absolutely new to the sport of bikes! i don't know these things.. i'm here just trying to do research so that i can know as much as i can before i actually go out there and get to test any bikes!


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## AndrwSwitch (May 28, 2009)

So your fiancee is your guinea pig?


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## daletron3030 (Jan 27, 2014)

AndrwSwitch said:


> So your fiancee is your guinea pig?


HAHAHAHAHAH.. well her car broke down and will be using her bike as form of transportation for the next few months.. so yes.. i convinced her to get into road biking with me and can't lie.. i did kinda observe what she went through.. posted here to learn more.. so i can be even more prepared for my bike =)


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## AndrwSwitch (May 28, 2009)

I'd forgotten you also posted the thread about different endurance bikes.

Don't overthink this - really. People have all sorts of expectations of what cycling will be for them before they get their first bikes. And by the end of their first year, a huge proportion of people are doing something pretty different with it. Actually that's something I think was pretty great about the old sport-touring bikes. You're going to ride a bike that grabs you. Get that one, and see where it takes you.

Could be in a year you'll be buying a laden touring rig and wondering what you were thinking getting a light road bike. Or, maybe you'll be getting a carbon feather wonderbike and starting a hard core training plan, and wondering how you could have wanted something so slack. Or maybe you'll have a twelve year love affair with it before some fat-tired hussy shows you what size you should really have ridden.

Heck, horror of horrors, you might want a tri bike.


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## eugenetsang (Jun 9, 2011)

Since you're just starting out, you won't really know what your riding goals/objectives are. until you click off your first 1000 miles or so.

As with everyone that had started out fresh in this hobby, you'll be the typical noob.. Buying a $400-$600 bike.. Thinking its the greatest investment ever (later realizing you had outgrown the bike)! You'll probably wear bball shorts over padded cycling shorts. BC you're too embarrassed to show off your moose knuckle to the public. Ride your bike with a fully packed backpack, when everyone around you is in lycra. 

Then BAM! Somewhere during the first 1000 miles of getting into the hobby, you meet some really cool ppl in this sport. They partake in weekend group rides... ask you to tag along... THEN you realize to yourself that you're not like the others in the group. Its time to upgrade those bball shorts into bibs and convert into some clipless pedals and shoes and lose the backpack! Fall a few times during the process.. Eventually mastering the art of clipping in and out..

Thats when everything clicks! The $400-$600 "investment" isn't really meant for you. You decide to go buy another bike. Maybe full carbon.. Or even a higher end aluminum... Eventually you'll become like the rest of the cycling world.... Spending lots of money into the sport... Riding every weekend if possible... Looking online for the latest and greatest.....

My point... What you buy/ride now may not be the same bike you will have 1000 miles from now. It all depends on how deep and hooked you are with the hobby. Once you get bit by the cycling bug, its no joke!


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## Nubster (Jul 8, 2009)

Sadly shops around me are terribly lacking. So that makes my criteria for a bike shop...

1. Who gives me the best deal
2. Who has the coolest guys to hang out with a chat bikes/whatever

Otherwise...I'm kinda left to my own as far as figuring out what's what. Third option is to drive 3 hours to an actual good bike shop.


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## daletron3030 (Jan 27, 2014)

eugenetsang said:


> Since you're just starting out, you won't really know what your riding goals/objectives are. until you click off your first 1000 miles or so.
> 
> As with everyone that had started out fresh in this hobby, you'll be the typical noob.. Buying a $400-$600 bike.. Thinking its the greatest investment ever (later realizing you had outgrown the bike)! You'll probably wear bball shorts over padded cycling shorts. BC you're too embarrassed to show off your moose knuckle to the public. Ride your bike with a fully packed backpack, when everyone around you is in lycra.
> 
> ...


hahahha that does sound like my personality.. but i guess we'll c


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## daletron3030 (Jan 27, 2014)

so i finally had some time to go bike shopping today now that i have some money.. 

first bike shop didn't really have anything in my size that was in my budget which is a shame.. he seemed friendly but estimated i was '52 when i'm only 5'6 and didn't really give me input on fit whatsoever.. he seemed knowledgeable about the bike parts.. just nothing at all about how it felt to me... no sizing or nothing really which was really disappointing.. guess it didn't matter cus they had nothing in my size

second bike shop .. same thing. the guy was really friendly.. even emphasized that yes.. how the bike fits me is the most important but didn't really make an effort to lower the seat post or anything when i size that fit me felt too tall.. when i kept emphasizing that the seat post was pressuring my goodies just way too hard..

i'll probably hit up a bike shop once a day in search for that perfect shop =T

as of now.. i really dont know what comfortable is supposed to feel like.. as i've never had a road bike before and really wanted the workers input.. sadly didn't find much of that from these two shops


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## PJ352 (Dec 5, 2007)

daletron3030 said:


> so i finally had some time to go bike shopping today now that i have some money..
> 
> first bike shop didn't really have anything in my size that was in my budget which is a shame.. he seemed friendly but estimated i was '52 when i'm only 5'6 and didn't really give me input on fit whatsoever.. he seemed knowledgeable about the bike parts.. just nothing at all about how it felt to me... no sizing or nothing really which was really disappointing.. guess it didn't matter cus they had nothing in my size
> 
> ...


Especially at the first shop, I think your expectations were a bit high. If they have nothing in your price range, there's little else to do other than ask that a standard fitting be done (for a nominal fee), which can be used as a baseline wherever you decide to buy. 

As far as the comment re: estimating a 52 when you're only 5'6", generally speaking and depending on make/ model, that's a very common size range for someone of your stature and of (more or less) normal proportions. I doubt there'd be many road bikes out there where you'd be outside of a 50-53cm range, so his 'ball parking' IMO was pretty good. 

Re: the second shop, you don't say whether they were setting the bike up for a test ride or you were just straddling the bike on the shop floor. Most don't do even a basic fitting till you're focused on a couple of bikes and are ready to test ride them.

Lastly, don't be afraid to take a proactive role in bike shopping. Meaning, if you want something, ask for it. Many shop owners have a somewhat laid back attitude because folks just want to go in, ask some questions and shop around.

Knowing what to ask is key to finding a good shop. Primarily, what a standard fitting consists of, do the shops promote test rides, if a size has to be ordered, what are store policies, what's included post-purchase...


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## tednugent (Apr 26, 2010)

daletron3030 said:


> so i finally had some time to go bike shopping today now that i have some money..
> 
> first bike shop didn't really have anything in my size that was in my budget which is a shame.. he seemed friendly but estimated i was '52 when i'm only 5'6 and didn't really give me input on fit whatsoever.. he seemed knowledgeable about the bike parts.. just nothing at all about how it felt to me... no sizing or nothing really which was really disappointing.. guess it didn't matter cus they had nothing in my size
> 
> ...


First... do you really want a road bike?

Is there some allure to gravel paths (as well as fire roads, smooth singletrack, etc)?.... if so... maybe consider a cyclocross bike as an option.....

comfort is a relative term. Frame geometry plays into how you intend to ride as well as say... flexibility in your hips, etc.... (your butt will hurt anyway... so, take most of the butt pain out of the comfort equation...)

If you want another opinion, see:
Bike Fit Calculator | Find Your Bike Size | Competitive Cyclist

Read their extra info at the bottom of the page.... the more you're aware of things... hopefully the better decisions you can make so that your 1st purchase can be more gratifying.

If you have questions about outputs of the fit calculator....and how does that translate to buying the bike... ask away... sure someone will answer it.


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## AndrwSwitch (May 28, 2009)

52 is often the smallest "real" size that adult road bikes come in. If you look at the geometry charts, if a company even offers a 49 or 50, a lot of the time, it actually has a longer reach than the 52 and weird angles.

And I gotta say, if I ran a shop, I'd guesstimate people's sizes by eye for initial test rides. Try to ride the same bike in a couple sizes so you can get a sense of what those feel like.


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## daletron3030 (Jan 27, 2014)

PJ352 said:


> Especially at the first shop, I think your expectations were a bit high. If they have nothing in your price range, there's little else to do other than ask that a standard fitting be done (for a nominal fee), which can be used as a baseline wherever you decide to buy.
> 
> As far as the comment re: estimating a 52 when you're only 5'6", generally speaking and depending on make/ model, that's a very common size range for someone of your stature and of (more or less) normal proportions. I doubt there'd be many road bikes out there where you'd be outside of a 50-53cm range, so his 'ball parking' IMO was pretty good.
> 
> ...


thanks for the input.. ya i should probably stop being a diva lol. but honestly.. #3 on my original post.._that's_ what i want from a bike shop. i'm new to the sport. i'm willing to put down a thousand dollars.. maybe that's little in the bike world.. but that's a damn lot to me.

everywhere i read.. "how it fits" is the most important thing.. so ya i do kinda expect the workers to help me find something that actually fits.

i'm 5'6.. ive been told i have short legs.. which i stated.. i actually think the fiance's bike feels great on me.. just a tad small.. it's a '48 woman's bike though.. but just would like input from the workers when test riding their bikes..

and both shops i talked about i test road all the bikes and was actually about to go with the Giant Defy 2 small size in the second shop.. i felt kinda more confident just because Giant goes by the small/medium/large frames... and i know for sure i'd fall into the small.. but when i mentioned that the seat post is pressuring my goodies way too hard and that my arms felt locked instead of slightly bent.. he didn't feel the need to do anything for me.. so i decided i didn't want to purchase a bike from a shop like that.

just my two cents, but i appreciate and understand what all you guys are trying to say.


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## daletron3030 (Jan 27, 2014)

tednugent said:


> First... do you really want a road bike?
> 
> Is there some allure to gravel paths (as well as fire roads, smooth singletrack, etc)?.... if so... maybe consider a cyclocross bike as an option.....
> 
> ...


ya pretty sure i want the road bike route.. nothing but roads where i live really.. just a lot of small hills and beautiful scenery and would really like to get out there and enjoy it

thanks for that link, that's awesome. gonna do the whole measurement thing tonight and see where i'm at!



also i'm wondering if i'm feeling like bikes are too tall because i grew up on BMX bikes which is obviously completely different in the size proportions.. but as stated in the previous post.. my fiances bike felt really good even though technically it's supposed to be way too small for me??


gonna go to a few bike shops after work around my work area here in Burbank .. which will give me more time and i wont' catch workers when the shop is about to close.. maybe a reason why they're not putting more effort into trying to make a sale


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## expatbrit (Oct 16, 2013)

Shop the shops, find one you like and trust. You'll probably know it when you find it.


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## AndrwSwitch (May 28, 2009)

It's funny - one of the higher-end experiences I've had was looking at a $650 bike. This is pretty much rock-bottom in retail road bikes. Probably a lot of it was timing. There was nobody there when I came in. Though buying an expensive mountain bike recently was a very different experience from previous sales - not sure what the shop's piece still was since I ordered from a team form, but they were sure nice to me. Come to think of it, the shop where I bought my older mountain bike, a $600 Hardrock, was pretty good too. They had to build one for me, since the model on the floor, that I sized from, wasn't the spec I was buying, but I was mountain biking for the first time in a few years that same afternoon. NYC is good at that stuff, though.

Look for little owner-operator shops. I think they're usually better at service than some kid making minimum wage. You might also look for a shop that employs people over 30. I don't think anyone at Gotham Bikes that day owned a piece of the shop, but they weren't teenagers either.

Don't be afraid to be assertive. That's something that drives me nuts about the state I live in, WA. I moved here from NYC and accidentally cut in line a lot for about two years because the volume on people's body language is so low. If I had a shop and you walked in and didn't make eye contact, I'd probably leave you alone for a while. I don't want to pester a sale out of my door. Wouldn't mean I didn't want to help you. Tell the sales guy you'd like to ride a couple road bikes. Tell him anything else that you think is pertinent - you liked a 48 you rode recently, you want some help with setting up the bike to give it its best shot to grab you, whatever. I think I've always found sales people to be ready to adjust a seat post, so I'm surprised you had trouble with that.

As an aside, 52 and "small" are basically the same in bikes in much the same way as 36 and "small" in T-shirts.


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## PJ352 (Dec 5, 2007)

daletron3030 said:


> thanks for the input.. ya i should probably stop being a diva lol. but honestly.. #3 on my original post.._that's_ what i want from a bike shop. i'm new to the sport. i'm willing to put down a thousand dollars.. maybe that's little in the bike world.. but that's a damn lot to me.
> 
> everywhere i read.. "how it fits" is the most important thing.. so ya i do kinda expect the workers to help me find something that actually fits.
> 
> ...


Uh, you might want to go back and reread #3 of your OP. You were somewhat critical of that shop as well, till someone posted that drivetrain adjustments are oftentimes needed.

Re: sizing/ fit, aside from getting a bike that suites your intended uses, nothing else trumps it. The one shop you visited had nothing in your price range, but ballparked your size. Given the situation, I don't see a problem with that level of assistance.

Re: the online fit calculators, I'd be wary of them. The _best_ any will do is get you in a sizing _range_, and you're already there. I would recommend measuring for your _cycling_ inseam, only because it's easy to do and I'm curious if you really are short legged.

All that aside, there's no question LBS's are not all equal, but it's partly up to you to ask questions, seek advice and be straightforward about the level of assistance you're looking for. From there, you assess and decide where to buy.


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## antonlove (Sep 30, 2009)

When I was a noob, I went shopping for my bike without much knowledge of road bikes. My neighbor was kind enough to take me to bike shops in the area so that I could demo bikes, see what was important to me, etc. I decided that I wanted a Trek Madone, and went to the different shops that sold them in my area. One shop, which is in a great location, and the closest one to my home and job, was *TERRIBLE*! I was shopping in the winter time, I was the only one in the shop, and they couldn't be bothered with me. I walked out and took my money to other shops, and ultimately decided to purchase at a shop which is 35 miles away from my home. At this shop, the sales person took his time to explain to me all the little differences in SRAM v Shimano, compact v standard crank, different cassettes, etc. They ordered my bike and I bought the Red Shield protection. (More on Red Shield in a moment.) When my bike came in, they put me on a trainer and gave me a basic fitting. Then told me to come back after about 200 miles and get any adjustments that may be needed. After a while, I started riding on the Wednesday night hammer sessions. They then gave me a free thorough tuneup since they figured I would start racing soon.

(Now back to Red Shield.) Since I purchased my bike, I have gotten 6 chains, a rear derailleur, and a cassette replaced with no charge. I've gotten numerous tuneups for free. Because I've gotten such good service there, I go out of my way to purchase all of my tires, inner tubes, etc. there. Also, I bring my friends there to their sales events, so that my friends can get good deals there as well. I've had 2 friends buy bikes there since I bought mine there. I am now a ride leader with my cycling club, and I will lead rides that stop at that shop for no other reason than they've treated me well, and I'm paying it forward. 

A friend of mine bought a bike from the convenient bike shop that I mentioned was terrible. I won't go into detail, but he hates that shop and goes out of his way to buy stuff at other shops now. 

For me, it was all in the customer service. Now, I am going to buy a much more expensive bike, and I will buy it from the same shop. I haven't even given a thought to spending that money anywhere else.


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## daletron3030 (Jan 27, 2014)

expatbrit said:


> Shop the shops, find one you like and trust. You'll probably know it when you find it.


ya that's what i'm trying to do!



AndrwSwitch said:


> Look for little owner-operator shops. I think they're usually better at service than some kid making minimum wage. You might also look for a shop that employs people over 30. I don't think anyone at Gotham Bikes that day owned a piece of the shop, but they weren't teenagers either.
> 
> Don't be afraid to be assertive. That's something that drives me nuts about the state I live in, WA. I moved here from NYC and accidentally cut in line a lot for about two years because the volume on people's body language is so low. If I had a shop and you walked in and didn't make eye contact, I'd probably leave you alone for a while. I don't want to pester a sale out of my door. Wouldn't mean I didn't want to help you. Tell the sales guy you'd like to ride a couple road bikes. Tell him anything else that you think is pertinent - you liked a 48 you rode recently, you want some help with setting up the bike to give it its best shot to grab you, whatever. I think I've always found sales people to be ready to adjust a seat post, so I'm surprised you had trouble with that.
> 
> As an aside, 52 and "small" are basically the same in bikes in much the same way as 36 and "small" in T-shirts.


ya one of the shops i went to were full of hipster teenagers.. not trying to stereotype because i'm only 30, but it was hard to take them a little seriously.. and you're right i need to be assertive.. it's just a little hard when you're still naive to the whole thing.. but i'm starting to understand things alot more now



antonlove said:


> When I was a noob, I went shopping for my bike without much knowledge of road bikes. My neighbor was kind enough to take me to bike shops in the area so that I could demo bikes, see what was important to me, etc. I decided that I wanted a Trek Madone, and went to the different shops that sold them in my area. One shop, which is in a great location, and the closest one to my home and job, was *TERRIBLE*! I was shopping in the winter time, I was the only one in the shop, and they couldn't be bothered with me. I walked out and took my money to other shops, and ultimately decided to purchase at a shop which is 35 miles away from my home. At this shop, the sales person took his time to explain to me all the little differences in SRAM v Shimano, compact v standard crank, different cassettes, etc. They ordered my bike and I bought the Red Shield protection. (More on Red Shield in a moment.) When my bike came in, they put me on a trainer and gave me a basic fitting. Then told me to come back after about 200 miles and get any adjustments that may be needed. After a while, I started riding on the Wednesday night hammer sessions. They then gave me a free thorough tuneup since they figured I would start racing soon.
> 
> (Now back to Red Shield.) Since I purchased my bike, I have gotten 6 chains, a rear derailleur, and a cassette replaced with no charge. I've gotten numerous tuneups for free. Because I've gotten such good service there, I go out of my way to purchase all of my tires, inner tubes, etc. there. Also, I bring my friends there to their sales events, so that my friends can get good deals there as well. I've had 2 friends buy bikes there since I bought mine there. I am now a ride leader with my cycling club, and I will lead rides that stop at that shop for no other reason than they've treated me well, and I'm paying it forward.
> 
> ...


thanks for sharing! that's what i'm hoping to find!


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## daletron3030 (Jan 27, 2014)

it reallllllyyyyyy sucks that bike shops tend to close at 6 to 7pm... i'm working near Los Angeles so traffic is horrible and by the time i make it to any shop, they're about to close which maybe effects the sort of service i'm getting..

anyway i found 2 great shops yesterday.. the first shop was in the middle of moving and there just wasn't much selection.. but he was very accommodating and very friendly.. he has a sister store that's supposed to be huge.. i called them to see if they have stuff in my size and the groupset that i was looking for and they do.. so i'm hoping to find what i'm looking for over there today/tomorrow if everything goes well!

the second store was closing at 6pm.. i got there at 5:45.. but they still let me test ride their bikes and i think i FINALLY found my size! even though they didn't have the groupset i was looking for (tiagra's) in stock.. they let me try the 49 cm in the Specialized Allez and Specialized Secteur and they felt great.

i was hardly able to ride it just because of the fact they were closing.. but i really couldn't even tell a difference in the geometry  kinda wish i could order from them just because they were so helpful but i dont know if i can pull the trigger on something i can't physically test..

anyway thanks again for everyone's input and sharing their personal experiences and stories


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## PlatyPius (Feb 1, 2009)

junior1210 said:


> Keep in mind that the initial fit can/may/will change, especially if you're just getting started. Flexibility, core strength, and possible physical 'oddities' (like one leg shorter than the other) will change or become relevant. Many shops know this, and instead of explaining, will just get you close and tell you to come back in 500 miles and they'll dial you in better then.


Bingo.

This is why I tell people that I'm going to do a "rough" fit and then send them out to get at least 200 miles in before they come in for a better fit (I don't actually do fits - although I can - I send them to a fitter if they want more than I can give them in my small shop with no fitting tools aside from a tape measure, a Goniometer, a plumb bob, and my questions, eye, and experience.

I do, however, believe that the whole "fit" thing is considered to be more important than it really is. Most people are capable of tuning the bike fit themselves, and usually do a better job than a fitter.


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## eugenetsang (Jun 9, 2011)

Kinda shocked to hear that the LA area doesn't have any reputable shops by you! SoCals cycling community is one of the best in the country!

But glad to hear that you were able to finally find a lbs that you feel comfortable with.

The Allez is a great bike, little brother to the Tarmac. If you feel that you're going to take road cycling seriously, I'd spend a little more money on Spesh's higher end model of the Allez. If not, splurge a little and get the Tarmac! Either way, you'll be happy!


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## daletron3030 (Jan 27, 2014)

eugenetsang said:


> Kinda shocked to hear that the LA area doesn't have any reputable shops by you! SoCals cycling community is one of the best in the country!
> 
> But glad to hear that you were able to finally find a lbs that you feel comfortable with.
> 
> The Allez is a great bike, little brother to the Tarmac. If you feel that you're going to take road cycling seriously, I'd spend a little more money on Spesh's higher end model of the Allez. If not, splurge a little and get the Tarmac! Either way, you'll be happy!


i live more in a suberb of LA (torrance).. and commute past LA.. in burbank. i'd love to check out the LA shops but man.. traffic after work doesn't make that possible to be honest.. 

ah man my budget was already pushed up to around $1k.. (i originally wanted to only spend $600 to 800)... i really don't want to spend more.. and i haven't even thought about all the accessories i haven't accounted for........=\

thank you for the suggestion though, i will def check it out! hopefully can pull the trigger today or tomorrow


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## tednugent (Apr 26, 2010)

daletron3030 said:


> i live more in a suberb of LA (torrance).. and commute past LA.. in burbank. i'd love to check out the LA shops but man.. traffic after work doesn't make that possible to be honest..
> 
> ah man my budget was already pushed up to around $1k.. (i originally wanted to only spend $600 to 800)... i really don't want to spend more.. and i haven't even thought about all the accessories i haven't accounted for........=\
> 
> thank you for the suggestion though, i will def check it out! hopefully can pull the trigger today or tomorrow


There's a Surf City Cyclery in Huntington Beach is good, but that's probably too far for you.


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## daletron3030 (Jan 27, 2014)

tednugent said:


> There's a Surf City Cyclery in Huntington Beach is good, but that's probably too far for you.


thanks for the suggestion. won't be here for the weekend.. if i dont pull the trigger today or tomorrow. i will definitely check it out and let u know. i'm willing to go anywhere in the LA area .. it just really sucks driving somewhere just to find out they have nothing in your size or their inventory is really small... and i feel kinda rude calling to ask their inventory before hand.. but maybe i should -.-


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## eugenetsang (Jun 9, 2011)

That's something you'll eventually learn when it comes to cycling. Setting up a realistic budget won't get you too far... Once you catch the cycling bug, all that goes out the window.

Next phase you'll learn will be, buying things within your means... Bc this damn "hobby" can literally cost you a small fortune! 

My suggestion:

1. Bibs and jersey

2. Shoes and pedals

3. Decent helmet

4. Cages and water bottles that are on sale

5. Multi tool and tire levers.

6. Pump/hand pump

All that shouldn't cost you more than $500.. And that should last you for the first cycling season.


In year 2, maybe upgrade you a computer with cadence... New tires and maybe new wheels if you feel like pampering yourself...


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## daletron3030 (Jan 27, 2014)

eugenetsang said:


> That's something you'll eventually learn when it comes to cycling. Setting up a realistic budget won't get you too far... Once you catch the cycling bug, all that goes out the window.
> 
> Next phase you'll learn will be, buying things within your means... Bc this damn "hobby" can literally cost you a small fortune!
> 
> ...


.................................... lol fml......


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## tednugent (Apr 26, 2010)

daletron3030 said:


> thanks for the suggestion. won't be here for the weekend.. if i dont pull the trigger today or tomorrow. i will definitely check it out and let u know. i'm willing to go anywhere in the LA area .. it just really sucks driving somewhere just to find out they have nothing in your size or their inventory is really small... and i feel kinda rude calling to ask their inventory before hand.. but maybe i should -.-


Surf City Cyclery, Specialized Bicycles Huntington Beach & Costa Mesa, Best Bike Shops in Orange County, California

The last time I was there (over the summer), they (in HB), had a huge inventory in their showroom... it is a big store.

It doesn't hurt to call them ahead of time...

there is another big Specialized store, I think in Santa Monica.

...anyway... my LBS (I'm on the other side of the country)... if they don't have the right size in the store... and if their warehouse has it (or another location), they'll get it for their potential customers, and arrange a time for when the customer can stop by.

P.S. 
SoCalCycling.com – Southern California, Cycling, Cycling News, Bicycle Racing, Fun Rides, Cycling Event Calendars, Mountain Biking, Cyclocross, Cycling Photos, Cycling Videos, Amgen Tour of California, Interviews, Product Reviews. Cycling Clubs and

Maybe there is a club near you, that you can join, and they can assist you with finding the right bike and the right shop


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## daletron3030 (Jan 27, 2014)

tednugent said:


> Surf City Cyclery, Specialized Bicycles Huntington Beach & Costa Mesa, Best Bike Shops in Orange County, California
> 
> The last time I was there (over the summer), they (in HB), had a huge inventory in their showroom... it is a big store.
> 
> ...


thanks for the links!!! ya ive been trying to find shops with good inventory as finding my size seems to be rather difficult


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## PJ352 (Dec 5, 2007)

daletron3030 said:


> .. they let me try the 49 cm in the Specialized Allez and Specialized Secteur and they felt great.
> 
> i was hardly able to ride it just because of the fact they were closing.. but *i really couldn't even tell a difference in the geometry*..


I'm not really surprised. The difference between race (Allez) and relaxed (Secteur) geo is pretty subtle. And both can generally be set up about the same, so don't agonize over that part. More important to get what fits and feels right. 

You're right, though. Don't open your wallet till you're sure of what you want... _after_ test rides.. out on the roads.


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## Rashadabd (Sep 17, 2011)

daletron3030 said:


> so i finally had some time to go bike shopping today now that i have some money..
> 
> first bike shop didn't really have anything in my size that was in my budget which is a shame.. he seemed friendly but estimated i was '52 when i'm only 5'6 and didn't really give me input on fit whatsoever.. he seemed knowledgeable about the bike parts.. just nothing at all about how it felt to me... no sizing or nothing really which was really disappointing.. guess it didn't matter cus they had nothing in my size
> 
> ...


I am around the same height (maybe .5-1.0 inch taller) and I generally end up on a 52cm (Trek, Specialized, Cannondale) or 51cm for some manufacturers (Cervelo, Felt, BMC) or Small (European brands). The fit session and test rides should help you sort out if it's right or not.


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## eugenetsang (Jun 9, 2011)

FML is right.... Lets just say for me, I've gone through 3 bikes before settling with my current ride/setup. Hopefully it will be my last!

I never expected myself to get hooked and then to outgrow my old bikes. But I eventually did. Fortunately I was able to sell them at a loss to offset the original costs of my purchases... Now you know why this hobby can be a money pit?!

I guess if i could go back in time and could learn from all my rookie mistakes, I wouldn't have purchased my first 3 bikes. They were essentially was a waste of money. I would have set my money aside and put that towards my current bike. But I didn't know any better.. Only time will tell and will tell you how badly you will be bitten by the bug.

Once you do, its an addiction! There's no feeling like it! As cliche as it may be, Just go out and literally, ENJOY the ride!


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## AndrwSwitch (May 28, 2009)

How could you test ride the Allez and Secteur but not test ride them? Do you mean on a trainer? Or just with the wrong group?

Can you go back during your lunch break? It's maybe not as great a time as 2pm on a Wednesday, but better than 15 minutes before close or on the weekend at least.


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## AndrwSwitch (May 28, 2009)

Oops, and another thought - you don't need to buy shoes and pedals right away, and you don't even really need cycling shorts right away, let alone a jersey. So you can at least wait a paycheck, or a few paychecks, for these things.


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## daletron3030 (Jan 27, 2014)

hey everyone, jus wanted to update and mention that I got my new bike! ended up with a felt z95 51cm.

I cant really say that this bike shop was that much better than the others but I think I was losing my patience as I just wanted my friggin bike already.. lol

I was bummed because as mentioned in my last post.. I tried a 49 cm allez elite and secteur at a previous shop and it felt great but they had claris components so I didnt want to pull the trigger..

so this shop actually had a good deal for me.. an allez with 105s 2013 for 1100.. but after test ridingthis one it just felt too uncomfortable. . which is disappointing considering the same frame at the other shop felt so good (wth?).. I felt too hunched and I guess im not used to that low position road bike feel yet...

the felt has soras.. which im a little disappointed in because I rly wanted tiagras... maybe it was just sales talk but he mentioned that just because the tiagras has another gear.. unless im riding some super steep hills (which I wont be), I wont even be using those other gears.. im not sure if the tiagras quality are better or not but from what I can tell so far.. the soras shift real smoothly and im happy so far

the one thing I just dont know is if the bike truly fits me... ill save it for a new post as I have some questions

just wanted to say thank you to everyone who responded to this thread and shared their stories. it helped very much!


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## AndrwSwitch (May 28, 2009)

Does the shop offer fits? If you have friends who ride, you can also ask around. This is something you can do yourself, but someone good at it can get you pretty close much, much faster.


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## daletron3030 (Jan 27, 2014)

the guy told me to get pedals and shoes and come back and they'll get me mkre dialed in.. but I just dont know if I trust them just because what they eyeballed was super high compared to the 109 method/inseam measurement that I did...

but mostly because the shop is ridiculously far and not convenient for me.. as bike shops tend to close early I really only have the weekends


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## Rashadabd (Sep 17, 2011)

daletron3030 said:


> the guy told me to get pedals and shoes and come back and they'll get me mkre dialed in.. but I just dont know if I trust them just because what they eyeballed was super high compared to the 109 method/inseam measurement that I did...
> 
> but mostly because the shop is ridiculously far and not convenient for me.. as bike shops tend to close early I really only have the weekends


There is no shame in going to another shop for fit if you trust them better or just want to feel them out, etc. They may charge you though, whereas these guys will probably do it for free. I would spend the $100 or so and get fit at someone that is closer and/or has a fit machine (Guru, Retul, Serotta, etc.).


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## AndrwSwitch (May 28, 2009)

Do you expect them to have laser eyes?

Last time I paid for a fit, it was right around $100, and I ended up buying some insoles and a different stem, and paying for a little work. That was me, the shop manager, and a trainer. I'd asked around a bit beforehand, and the fit ended up being a bit of a revelation. I'd been doing it pretty wrong for a long time. I do my own fits now, but I think that's some of the best money I've spent on cycling. Now that I know what good feels like, I think I can repeat it pretty well.

I'm sorry you live in SoCal because I don't like that level of population density, and I always hear that shops actually mark their bikes up over MSRP around there. I'd rather live someplace with dense population centers and more rural areas and wild areas. I miss being able to walk to the grocery store and ride to work or school.

I'm lucky enough to live two miles from a working forest and while my commute blows, I do pass through farmland. I really can't get into the suburb thing.


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## daletron3030 (Jan 27, 2014)

Rashadabd said:


> There is no shame in going to another shop for fit if you trust them better or just want to feel them out, etc. They may charge you though, whereas these guys will probably do it for free. I would spend the $100 or so and get fit at someone that is closer and/or has a fit machine (Guru, Retul, Serotta, etc.).


dumb question but how would I go about finding out what stores offer this? what would I specifically say? it seems if I ask for a pro fit.. those are the ones that are for pros ranging from 200 to 400 bucks.. from what google is telling me anyway


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## PJ352 (Dec 5, 2007)

daletron3030 said:


> the guy told me to get pedals and shoes and come back and they'll get me mkre dialed in.. but I just dont know if I trust them just because what they eyeballed was super high compared to the 109 method/inseam measurement that I did...
> 
> but mostly because the shop is ridiculously far and not convenient for me.. as bike shops tend to close early I really only have the weekends


At this stage I wouldn't second guess the fitter. Let him do the initial fitting (with shoes/ pedals), go through the acclimation process (getting tweaks to fit, if needed) and reassess as you build saddle time, fitness and flexibility.

I wouldn't recommend a pro level fit unless you have some experience and/ or are experiencing problems.


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