# Bye Bye BARLOWORLD



## bas (Jul 30, 2004)

See YOU IN doping forum

http://www.hln.be/hlns/cache/det/art_537132.html?wt.bron=homeArt1


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## Big Bad Wolf (Jun 17, 2007)

Yes, it seems it's Soler, to be confirmed tomorrow morning.

Translation of the last paragraph:

At the moment the French Police has entered the Barloworld Hotel, according to our Danish collegues at BT. But this could not be confirmed. 
Tomorrow at 11am (GMT-1) there will be a press conference.


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## StormShadow (Feb 27, 2005)

If this is true I think Contador just wet himself thinking of wearing three jerseys.


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## Dan Gerous (Mar 28, 2005)

StormShadow said:


> If this is true I think Contador just wet himself thinking of wearing three jerseys.


...And thinking how nice it is to have the most efficient dope program of any team...


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## Len J (Jan 28, 2004)

Now maybe Phil........

will stop picking Robbie Hunter!

Sometimes when something is too good to be true.......it is.

Len


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## jhamlin38 (Oct 29, 2005)

man does that suck. I'm not suprised, for another evil revelation. but it still sucks nonetheless.
perhaps a noname on a wildcard team winning and dominating the highest, hardest mountainstages of the Tour De France should have raised a red flag for all of us...
I hope the police found nothing, but I doubt it.


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## stevesbike (Jun 3, 2002)

incredible-another jersey gone. Amazing that the forums pick up this news faster than mainstream cycling sites (not on cyclingnews, cycling4all etc yet)

I guess when Phil pointed out he was actually climbing the aubisque faster than the yellow jersey group (caught Sastre etc) that should have been enough to know


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## gebbyfish (Apr 26, 2002)

*Courtesy of Babelfish translator*

There a new doping matter in gestation in the tour seems the France. After the fourteenth stage with arrival on plateau the Beille were decreased according to several sources a positive urine test. That then after Vinokourov and Moreni the third positive case in the tour would be. It would concern Mauricio Soler, the drager of the bolletjestrui. At this moment there is an irruption of the French police force in the hotel of Barloworld to pace communicates our Danish colleagues of BT. But we could not get that confirmed. Tomorrow at 11 o'clock there is anyway a press conference. The rumour which Soler positively would be has already looked after that bookmakers in United Kingdom and Italy have crossed out him.


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## gizzard (Oct 5, 2005)

I'm gutted for the rest of the team, especially Hunter. I had a feeling the Tour wasn't over (from a doping perspective). In fact I still think there's more to come. Contador...nudge, nudge, wink, wink. Know what I mean?


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## Pablo (Jul 7, 2004)

!Hijo de puta!


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## Henry Porter (Jul 25, 2006)

argggg.


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## T-shirt (Aug 15, 2004)

*In light of recent events...*

...I just put money on Vansevenant to take the yellow jersey.


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## Big Bad Wolf (Jun 17, 2007)

http://www1.vg.no/sport/sykkel/tour-de-france-2007/artikkel.php?artid=154076


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## Pablo (Jul 7, 2004)

What is that, some kind of porn avatar?


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## Jaji (Nov 26, 2001)

It's funny to me how certain riders who aren't even top GC contenders will try to dope, knowing they won't podium, win a stage, or win a jersey of any type. Eg. Moreni and the first guy who got busted before Vino (I can't even remember his name). Why do they even bother when the penalty for getting caught is a two-year suspension, which is enough time for some riders to call it quits because of their age. It just doesn't seem that the reward, or lack thereof, overshadows the risk factor.


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## wipeout (Jun 6, 2005)

Dan Gerous said:


> ...And thinking how nice it is to have the most efficient dope program of any team...


No one on DC dopes.


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## MikeBiker (Mar 9, 2003)

Dang it. I thought that Soler was an up and coming clean rider.


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## snowman3 (Jul 20, 2002)

Are you kidding me!!!! The jerseys are getting passed around like musical chairs!!! The guy who wins hot potato gets the podium. Sheesh.

Contador (if he makes it to Paris w/o getting fired) will be viewed as the goat during trivia questions. Q: Name the 2007 tour rider that finished w/ 3 jerseys because everyone else got tossed out? A: Oh I remember that fiasco.. Conti.


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## Big Bad Wolf (Jun 17, 2007)

Pablo said:


> What is that, some kind of porn avatar?


Have a lolly and shut up, skinny bones


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## T-shirt (Aug 15, 2004)

StormShadow said:


> If this is true I think Contador just wet himself thinking of wearing three jerseys.


That is freeky

Good for him, or I guess, good luck to him. I wonder if that has been accomplished previously?


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## Pablo (Jul 7, 2004)

Big Bad Wolf said:


> Have a lolly and shut up, skinny bones


Dang! I wasn’t complaining.


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## Pablo (Jul 7, 2004)

T-shirt said:


> That is freeky
> 
> Good for him, or I guess, good luck to him. I wonder if that has been accomplished previously?


Merckx won the climber's, sprinter's, and yellow jersey in 1969. The white jersey was only invented in the 1980s.


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## Big Bad Wolf (Jun 17, 2007)

Jaji said:


> It's funny to me how certain riders who aren't even top GC contenders will try to dope, knowing they won't podium, win a stage, or win a jersey of any type. Eg. Moreni and the first guy who got busted before Vino (I can't even remember his name). Why do they even bother when the penalty for getting caught is a two-year suspension, which is enough time for some riders to call it quits because of their age. It just doesn't seem that the reward, or lack thereof, overshadows the risk factor.


Lack of brains and arrogance ?:idea: 
In the case of Vino for sure.


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## Big Bad Wolf (Jun 17, 2007)

Pablo said:


> Dang! I wasn’t complaining.


Oh well, too late now, she's gone:aureola:


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## Pablo (Jul 7, 2004)

Not from my memories. Ahhh.


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## T-shirt (Aug 15, 2004)

Pablo said:


> Merckx won the climber's, sprinter's, and yellow jersey in 1969. The white jersey was only invented in the 1980s.


Ahhhh, I should have known. Thanks.


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## snowman3 (Jul 20, 2002)

Jaji said:


> It's funny to me how certain riders who aren't even top GC contenders will try to dope, knowing they won't podium, win a stage, or win a jersey of any type. Eg. .


Not really. You'll always have someone trying to bump to that next level. Whether it is top tier guys trying to go superhuman and win GC, or mid-tier guys tring to get to top-tier, or bottom-tier guys trying to get to mid-tier. Same motivation, just different "size of reward". 

The fact that peloton riders get caught lends credence to those w/ the opinion, "everyone is on dope".


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## Len J (Jan 28, 2004)

*Take a 24 year old.........*



Jaji said:


> It's funny to me how certain riders who aren't even top GC contenders will try to dope, knowing they won't podium, win a stage, or win a jersey of any type. Eg. Moreni and the first guy who got busted before Vino (I can't even remember his name). Why do they even bother when the penalty for getting caught is a two-year suspension, which is enough time for some riders to call it quits because of their age. It just doesn't seem that the reward, or lack thereof, overshadows the risk factor.


and put him in a position where he knows that if he can't compete his contract will not be renewed and he will have to go home and work in the local matress factory (Since he has no other skills, he's been riding 6 hours a day since he was 16). He also knows that the only way to keep his job is to dope. He also knows that it's expected. What do you think he does?

Len


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## bonkmiester (Sep 23, 2005)

Len J said:


> and put him in a position where he knows that if he can't compete his contract will not be renewed and he will have to go home and work in the local matress factory (Since he has no other skills, he's been riding 6 hours a day since he was 16). He also knows that the only way to keep his job is to dope. He also knows that it's expected. What do you think he does?
> 
> Len


...so he calls up Lance and asks to borrow $300K so he can work w/ Dr Ferarri...???...

...geesh...

...Len, I am not buying your arguement...AND I am surprised you are so cynical...

AC could be gainfully employed for the next 10 to 12 years as a domestique on various teams without having to dope or ever win a stage...no need to go back to the "mattress factory"...


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## north_of_us (May 10, 2006)

Yeah its a fiasco but the kid rode a great race even with Levi as his leader. Those battles in the mountains were brilliant, I just hope hes clean. Someone please stay clean.


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## Einstruzende (Jun 1, 2004)

This is getting freaking ridiculous. Just when I'm on the fence of really wanting to root for the guy ...

What a blow to Barloworld too. They were looking like they might be able to take the next step should a Protour spot ever open up.


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## kcd (Feb 4, 2002)

I was hoping the darkest hour had passed but it seems to be getting darker still....


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## 514Climber (Oct 19, 2005)

*Schadenfreude*



Big Bad Wolf said:


> Yes, it seems it's Soler, to be confirmed tomorrow morning.


which is something I'm guilty of right now. 

Regardless, I won't be sad if this is confirmed. Great climbers had a certain grace or souplesse - especially climbing out of the saddle. Soler reminds me of a hybrid between an aardvark and a constipated giraffe.


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## Wookiebiker (Sep 5, 2005)

Len J said:


> and put him in a position where he knows that if he can't compete his contract will not be renewed and he will have to go home and work in the local matress factory (Since he has no other skills, he's been riding 6 hours a day since he was 16). He also knows that the only way to keep his job is to dope. He also knows that it's expected. What do you think he does?
> 
> Len



Len J.

I agree, that's how it all gets started. People in the U.S. tend to think in terms of what happens here. Cyclists get at least a high school education, many go onto college and ride for college teams as they get better then move into the pro ranks.

In Europe many of the riders may not even have the equivalent of a high school education (though a lot do). Most don't have any college education, they ride their way up through the ranks. When the time comes that they peak naturally and it's either dope and move up or not dope and stay the same, which means no big contract and minimal amounts of money at best....It's an easy choice for many of them, especially when it's funded/ran by the team you are riding on.

As with most sports when you talk "Off the Record" to players and coaches: *if you ain't cheating you ain't trying.*


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## Len J (Jan 28, 2004)

*He specificially wondered........*



bonkmiester said:


> ...so he calls up Lance and asks to borrow $300K so he can work w/ Dr Ferarri...???...
> 
> ...geesh...
> 
> ...


why mid-tier guys would dope......I answered him. I wasn't talking about GC probables. Forthem it's the difference between not winning & winning.

As to cynical, it's not cynical, it's reality based. It's from listening to the stories that pros tell when they return from Europe burnt out.

And who was talking about AC?

Len


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## Slartibartfast (Jul 22, 2007)

snowman3 said:


> Contador (if he makes it to Paris w/o getting fired) will be viewed as the goat during trivia questions. Q: Name the 2007 tour rider that finished w/ 3 jerseys because everyone else got tossed out? A: Oh I remember that fiasco.. Conti.


LeMond as much as accuses Contador in today's Cyclingnews. He compares AC's and the Chicken's speed to Pantani, the standard by which small doping climbers must be judged. I've been thinking the same. :cryin:


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## bas (Jul 30, 2004)

514Climber said:


> which is something I'm guilty of right now.
> 
> Regardless, I won't be sad if this is confirmed. Great climbers had a certain grace or souplesse - especially climbing out of the saddle. Soler reminds me of a hybrid between an aardvark and a constipated giraffe.



LOL - good one.

I was laughing at Phil or Paul saying he was "gangly on the bike".. 

Mancebo was another strange columbian climber with his head cocked to the side.


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## kcd (Feb 4, 2002)

bas said:


> Mancebo was another strange columbian climber with his head cocked to the side.


Santiago Botero, a columbian, used to ride like a pugilist w/ head cocked to one side. He was kicked off his team last year for -- what else -- doping.


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## 867-5309 (Oct 7, 2005)

*Death Penalty*

Does this mean his entire team will be sent packing?


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## FondriestFan (May 19, 2005)

When Contador is busted, some of you will owe Lemond yet another apology.

Lemond is the Cassandra of the cycling world.


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## Slartibartfast (Jul 22, 2007)

FondriestFan said:


> Lemond is the Cassandra of the cycling world.


Okay. I looked it up. I agree. He may also be the greatest natural talent the sport has ever seen. :thumbsup:


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## Einstruzende (Jun 1, 2004)

bas said:


> LOL - good one.
> 
> I was laughing at Phil or Paul saying he was "gangly on the bike"..
> 
> Mancebo was another strange columbian climber with his head cocked to the side.


My good friend would be very upset that you don't know Mancebo is Spanish. My friend is of course Spanish, and he used to hold Mancebo in high regard.


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## FondriestFan (May 19, 2005)

fougasg said:


> He may also be the greatest natural talent the sport has ever seen. :thumbsup:


I have a world of respect for Lemond. He was a tremendous talent. I admire him for speaking out when it was unpopular. It takes a lot of guts to speak out against the crap that's going on in cycling right now.


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## physasst (Oct 1, 2005)

*Yeah*



FondriestFan said:


> I have a world of respect for Lemond. He was a tremendous talent. I admire him for speaking out when it was unpopular. It takes a lot of guts to speak out against the crap that's going on in cycling right now.



as if Lemond never doped....don't believe that for a second. EPO and transfusions may not have been the rage, but roids and uppers were all over the place at that time. I think sometimes the reason he so vehemently speaks out against doping is so that no one looks into his closet......there are probably skeletons there.


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## OldEndicottHiway (Jul 16, 2007)

gizzard said:


> I'm gutted for the rest of the team, especially Hunter. I had a feeling the Tour wasn't over (from a doping perspective). In fact I still think there's more to come. Contador...nudge, nudge, wink, wink. Know what I mean?



Lord I hope not. His is such a neat story (although I'm rooting more for Levi). But didn't Contador just come from two years' off the bike due to his head injury...? And now to be so good so soon? Ahhhhk. I'm not even going to go there.


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## stevesbike (Jun 3, 2002)

So, the tour has some huge news--another positive--and the organizers decide to hold off until a press conference at 11am on Saturday--WTF? Is this part of the 35 hour French work week? Nothing like waiting until as close to the start of the final stage to decide the placings to announce it...can't help but feel some of the hysteria around doping is due to the Euro love of drama combined with genetic inability to organize..


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## 867-5309 (Oct 7, 2005)

*Lets listen to Lemond*

He says that we should look at the riders around Rass because they are putting in such amazing times. As if the technology hasn't changed one bit since Pantani. Didn't Lemond crush Delgado who was wired to the gills on roids? Did he just implicate himself?


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## FondriestFan (May 19, 2005)

physasst said:


> as if Lemond never doped....don't believe that for a second. EPO and transfusions may not have been the rage, but roids and uppers were all over the place at that time. I think sometimes the reason he so vehemently speaks out against doping is so that no one looks into his closet......there are probably skeletons there.


What do you have to support your theory?


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## Henry Porter (Jul 25, 2006)

OldEndicottHiway said:


> Lord I hope not. His is such a neat story (although I'm rooting more for Levi). But didn't Contador just come from two years' off the bike due to his head injury...? And now to be so good so soon? Ahhhhk. I'm not even going to go there.


It appears that his head injury is similar to issues some people have to EPO.


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## Wookiebiker (Sep 5, 2005)

physasst said:


> as if Lemond never doped....don't believe that for a second. EPO and transfusions may not have been the rage, but roids and uppers were all over the place at that time. I think sometimes the reason he so vehemently speaks out against doping is so that no one looks into his closet......there are probably skeletons there.


Agree....Those that yell the loudest generally have the most to hide. How many political, religious, sports, etc. figures have been loud opponents of something only to turn out to be doing that very same thing in secret?

As has been mentioned, he does still hold the fastest ITT of all time in the Tour. That was with archaic aerodynamics, heavier bikes, less gearing ability (to stay in the power range) and worse components. Just one of those things that makes you go Hummmm.....:idea:


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## Guest (Jul 28, 2007)

physasst said:


> as if Lemond never doped....don't believe that for a second. EPO and transfusions may not have been the rage, but roids and uppers were all over the place at that time. I think sometimes the reason he so vehemently speaks out against doping is so that no one looks into his closet......there are probably skeletons there.


Well, not that I like to defend Lemond - but look how long it took him to recover compared to Lance (and Lance recovered to a *new* level). Just a thought.


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## OldEndicottHiway (Jul 16, 2007)

physasst said:


> as if Lemond never doped....don't believe that for a second. EPO and transfusions may not have been the rage, but roids and uppers were all over the place at that time. I think sometimes the reason he so vehemently speaks out against doping is so that no one looks into his closet......there are probably skeletons there.



The guy is a true cycling purist. I'm a cynic by nature, but he is one man I would be highly surprised if this were the case. Aside from the fact he has a big mouth, I've never understood the lack of respect from the general cycling world he has received in the years following his career. Perhaps it has been because he ratted them out, and pointed the finger (perhaps he should have used the middle one). 

I'm hoping the Pro scene cleans up, riders shun doping and rediscover the glory in the power of their own two legs unassisted by a lie. Something like it felt like when they were sixteen and full of the hope and the thrill of it all.

In those days, should they occur, Lemond will be given credit for being an outspoken catalyst to clean up the the most beautiful sport in the world. His sport.


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## BuenosAires (Apr 3, 2004)

Lemond is the reason i ride today. If it weren't for him, i probably would've played football or baseball. i think i'll take my Lemond out for a ride tomorrow and skip the time trial. I'm sure whoever wins will probably get tossed anyway.


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## Jesse D Smith (Jun 11, 2005)

*Stupid thread of the day*

This thread should be moved to the doping dungeon where the witch hunters can play with themselves. The thread of full of completely blind accusation against Lemond, Contador, and others. We have posters accusing current and former riders of doping based SOLELY on the fact they beat other riders. Then we have posters accusing one rider of doping, yet defending another rider, knowing they have no proof of either way I'm glad these clowns aren't on any jury. They lack the ability to logically assess evidence.
People can't get it through their head that a clean or doped race must end with one rider who has his name besides the #1. So accusing #1 just because he's #1 is moronic. 
Wish these people would follow through on their self-righteous claims that they no longer are interested in the sport. A forum search would "out" those who claimed a couple day go they won't watch or follow the race, yet returned to post more of their foolishness. 
Just like cycling has to weed out the cheats, I hope this helps weed out the fair weather fans.


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## wipeout (Jun 6, 2005)

physasst said:


> as if Lemond never doped....don't believe that for a second.


I firmly believe Lemond never doped. He was a huge talent as a teenager - I remember him lapping the Cat 1/PRO's in criteriums quite a few times. Nah, his talent was natural.


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## Phantomphan (Oct 17, 2005)

*Back on topic*

If this is true re Soler, does that mean Cadel gets the extra 4 seconds (?) time bonuses for finishing second and not third on the stage into Briancon?

They might be very handy.

But gee, Agritubel might win the teams classification the way this is going - no-one else will be left...


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## Wookiebiker (Sep 5, 2005)

Jesse D Smith said:


> This thread should be moved to the doping dungeon where the witch hunters can play with themselves. The thread of full of completely blind accusation against Lemond, Contador, and others. We have posters accusing current and former riders of doping based SOLELY on the fact they beat other riders. Then we have posters accusing one rider of doping, yet defending another rider, knowing they have no proof of either way I'm glad these clowns aren't on any jury. They lack the ability to logically assess evidence.
> People can't get it through their head that a clean or doped race must end with one rider who has his name besides the #1. So accusing #1 just because he's #1 is moronic.
> Wish these people would follow through on their self-righteous claims that they no longer are interested in the sport. A forum search would "out" those who claimed a couple day go they won't watch or follow the race, yet returned to post more of their foolishness.
> Just like cycling has to weed out the cheats, I hope this helps weed out the fair weather fans.


Here is the problem with your argument.....It's that line of thinking that has landed cycling in it's current state of disrepair.

Lets turn a blind eye to all the circumstantial evidence. Lets turn a blind eye to every super human performance. Lets turn a blind eye because somebody "Claims" to be clean even though they whooped the crap out of a bunch of "doping" riders. Lets turn a blind eye to riders who dissapear for 22 days before the largest race of the year.

If it looks like a cheater, rides like a cheater, beats other cheaters.....It's likely a cheater.

You are correct in that somebody has to be #1, the question is whether that person is really clean or not. In any day and age of cycling that's questionable, pick a generation, there is cheating as far back as you can research the Tour and cycling in general. So all the sudden the 80's were clean and the winners were clean, while every other decade was wroght with cheaters? Makes sense to me.

Are there clean riders in the Peloton? Probably, but it depends on what you call clean. My guess is they are all doing something to enhance their performance, things that you or I would never do, though might be legal by the letter of the law when it comes to cycling.


BTW....I've never been self rightious about the Tour and it's cleanliness. I went into this tour, just as I have every other Tour thinking riders were doping. Heck there were alegations flying around Astana, Rasmussen and several other teams before the tour even started. Anybody that expected this Tour to be clean or any tour in the past to be clean has/had their heads in the sand.


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## Jesse D Smith (Jun 11, 2005)

Wookiebiker said:


> Here is the problem with your argument.....It's that line of thinking that has landed cycling in it's current state of disrepair.
> 
> Lets turn a blind eye to all the circumstantial evidence. Lets turn a blind eye to every super human performance. Lets turn a blind eye because somebody "Claims" to be clean even though they whooped the crap out of a bunch of "doping" riders. Lets turn a blind eye to riders who dissapear for 22 days before the largest race of the year.
> 
> ...


I haven't seen any evidence that anyone in here including myself are turning a blind eye to the problem. What's going on in here is lazy people thinking it's a black and white world. If one is doped or many are doped, ALL must be doped. There's over a hundred riders in the Tour and we have evidence on how many? People in here take any and all positive tests as immediate truth. They have faith in that test. But any negative test is either ignored or spun into "he fooled the test". 
People use irrational reasons to damn one rider while praising another as the "clean" , when we have the exact same evidence on both. 
We don't even have an official work that the KOM has been named in anything, yet we skip right to the speculation and feelings of betrayal. 

I agree with you in that anyone who believed or claimed this will be a totally clean Tour and the Tour managed to completely wipe out drugs in one season, is a fool.
I expected about what we got, a few positive tests. Now if half the riders had tested positive, we've have some reason to claim all riders are doped. Truthfully, I expected the few positive test to be lesser riders, those fools who didn't feel they were under intense scrutiny. I didn't think a race contender would be that stupid.


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## Big Bad Wolf (Jun 17, 2007)

No talk of any positif case so far at the Press Conference.

Only that ASO will break with UCI

http://www.lequipe.fr/Cyclisme/breves2007/20070728_120034Dev.html


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## zosocane (Aug 29, 2004)

I just did a Google news search and got one short blurb about the Danish press reporting Soler testing positive for doping after stage 14 -- without further elaboration. Nothing else out there, and it's 12:50 P.M. Paris time on Saturday as I write this. Is this Soler stuff all an unsubstantiated rumor?


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## LarsM (Jul 26, 2007)

bas said:


> See YOU IN doping forum
> 
> http://www.hln.be/hlns/cache/det/art_537132.html?wt.bron=homeArt1


Or not.

Cyclingpost.com: Tour de France director Christian Prudhomme has said that Juan Mauricio Soler did not test positive after the 14th stage in the Tour de France, and indeed, the rider is scheduled to start in the time trial later today.

Whether there was indeed a positive doping test - not belonging to Soler - after stage 14, is still unknown.


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## magnolialover (Jun 2, 2004)

*True...*



LarsM said:


> Or not.
> 
> Cyclingpost.com: Tour de France director Christian Prudhomme has said that Juan Mauricio Soler did not test positive after the 14th stage in the Tour de France, and indeed, the rider is scheduled to start in the time trial later today.
> 
> Whether there was indeed a positive doping test - not belonging to Soler - after stage 14, is still unknown.


Just did some searching, and nothing about this is confirmed as of yet. Soler, still racing. Maybe just a rumor?


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## bas (Jul 30, 2004)

magnolialover said:


> Just did some searching, and nothing about this is confirmed as of yet. Soler, still racing. Maybe just a rumor?



Can't find anything about any 11 am press conference.

It looked like the people changed the stories to rumours.

Oh well. Tabloids blew it.


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## bas (Jul 30, 2004)

Einstruzende said:


> My good friend would be very upset that you don't know Mancebo is Spanish. My friend is of course Spanish, and he used to hold Mancebo in high regard.



My bad. Thanks for the correction.

Do you think he'll get in the Vuelta with Relax-Gam ?
Or will the ASO stay NO NO?


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## serbski (Dec 2, 2002)

Jesse D Smith said:


> I haven't seen any evidence that anyone in here including myself are turning a blind eye to the problem. What's going on in here is lazy people thinking it's a black and white world. If one is doped or many are doped, ALL must be doped. There's over a hundred riders in the Tour and we have evidence on how many? People in here take any and all positive tests as immediate truth. They have faith in that test. But any negative test is either ignored or spun into "he fooled the test".
> People use irrational reasons to damn one rider while praising another as the "clean" , when we have the exact same evidence on both.
> We don't even have an official work that the KOM has been named in anything, yet we skip right to the speculation and feelings of betrayal.
> 
> ...


My guess is that if every rider in the Tour had been tested for every likely banned substance (an impossibility of course) one would have a scenario with at least half of the riders coming up positive. Think about the plethora of banned drugs that can be used. Some riders' use may be just to enable them to "hang on" and do their job while others may be more aggressive in their use of drugs, having loftier goals. Honestly, if the race contenders are "that stupid" one can only imagine what is going on under the radar with lesser riders.


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## homebrew (Oct 28, 2004)

LOL
rumor mill got you all a bit.

Judge not my friends lest you be judged


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## huez (Mar 15, 2002)

FondriestFan said:


> I have a world of respect for Lemond. He was a tremendous talent. I admire him for speaking out when it was unpopular. It takes a lot of guts to speak out against the crap that's going on in cycling right now.



I admire Lemond too, but his logic is ridiculous. To say Contador must be doping because he climbs as fast as Pantani shreds some of Lemonds credibility. There is no ceiling on talent. 

What about Lemond, who in the race of truth, has set the record for the fastest TT ever. Faster than all the dopers ever to ride the tour who even had more aero equipment. So, using Lemond's own logic, he himself is a doper too.


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## Jesse D Smith (Jun 11, 2005)

bas said:


> Can't find anything about any 11 am press conference.
> 
> It looked like the people changed the stories to rumours.
> 
> Oh well. Tabloids blew it.


You've got it reversed. Rumours changed to stories. The tabloids blew it and those who read tabloids, take it as absolute truth, and help spread the rumor on the internet are to blame.


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## tkavan01 (Jun 24, 2004)

huez said:


> I admire Lemond too, but his logic is ridiculous. To say Contador must be doping because he climbs as fast as Pantani shreds some of Lemonds credibility. There is no ceiling on talent.
> 
> What about Lemond, who in the race of truth, has set the record for the fastest TT ever. Faster than all the dopers ever to ride the tour who even had more aero equipment. So, using Lemond's own logic, he himself is a doper too.



better not say that too loud you'll be labeled a lance fanboy! also lemond last year proclaimed the the 2006 tour the first clean one in a long time(i forget the end part) i know it is still being litigated and all but lemond seemed to ignore his own "stellar performance = doping" rule with landis...


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## Big Bad Wolf (Jun 17, 2007)

Translated: 

Fokke and Sukke don't trust their TomTom anymore..

You type in Mexico..

..and before you know it you're in the Dolomites.


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## wheel_suker (Feb 3, 2005)

Len J said:


> Now maybe Phil........
> 
> will stop picking Robbie Hunter!
> 
> ...


So much for your anti Barloworld/South African attitude. I predict Hunter is going to take the final stage in Paris! Huh


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## Bocephus Jones II (Oct 7, 2004)

Big Bad Wolf said:


> Translated:
> 
> Fokke and Sukke don't trust their TomTom anymore..
> 
> ...


That is pretty good...


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