# Pitbull Pedal is back



## Pitbull Pedal (Feb 19, 2018)

Well everyone it has been a long time since our last post. We have not been sitting back doing nothing though. We had a few investors interested in the product but when it came down to actual money their talk was bigger than their wallet. Now the good news is that we have been working with LOOK bicycle in France for the last 5 or 6 months. They have been awesome to work with. Unfortunately here at the end they decided not to move forward with our pedal as they just geared up their factory for the 2020 pedal that they have invested so much into. Vincent (the R&D manager) was extremely positive and told us that he felt we had a good product and hopefully we could get it to market. So that is what we have been working on the last month or so. There are different avenues that we will be trying to go. 

We know that we have a good pedal as it has been tested it seems like forever with no issues. We know that we are not about go cure cancer but we know that we have the fastest pedal out there. It will be marketed at a good price.

I believe that this sums up everything and I will be responding as I am able.

We also have this thread on BikeForums.net's road cycling area. Just looking for more input.


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## pmf (Feb 23, 2004)

Are you getting the same input there as you got here? Which wasn't real positive. This is the pedal that's basically a spindle that you slide the shoe onto using an enormous cleat, right?


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## shermes (Jul 26, 2008)

I can't believe Look decided not to move forward with your pedal, did they not see the video of Roger sprinting?


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## jetdog9 (Jul 12, 2007)

Mods should merge this with the previous thread for context.

https://forums.roadbikereview.com/general-cycling-discussion/new-pedal-363755.html


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## cxwrench (Nov 9, 2004)

:skep:


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## Oxtox (Aug 16, 2006)

Pitbull Pedal said:


> Now the good news is that we have been working with LOOK bicycle in France...they decided not to move forward with our pedal...




great news...thanks for sharing.


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## No Time Toulouse (Sep 7, 2016)

So......your pedal is D.O.A., and this is the last we'll hear about it?


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## velodog (Sep 26, 2007)

No Time Toulouse said:


> So......your pedal is D.O.A., *and this is the last we'll hear about it*?


With any luck.


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## Lombard (May 8, 2014)

Reinventing the wheel is a beautiful thing.


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## Jay Strongbow (May 8, 2010)

My honest opinion is that your pedal/cleat design doesn't have a market.


It does look like clipping in would be very easy. That's the only selling point I can see.
If that is the case:

There may be a small segment of Freds, Beginners and people who just can't figure it out with other pedals who that might appeal to. But how many of them would be best off with no float and wouldn't just use platforms if clipping in is an issue. That market segment also tends to care about walking and not scratching floors. Your cleats look like a big fail there.

Mtn Bikers and Cyclocross riders would probably like the easy in also. But again how many of them don't want float? And there's the walking/running thing. Imagine a metal clear walking along a hunk or granite. And those cleats look as if some mud would really f up functionality.

Commuters - Again the walking and scratching floors thing.

Roadies - Maybe a few that don't care about float will be interested. I assume they are light too and they (we) tend to have a lot of suckers for anything new and light so perhaps a small segment of the no float roadie crowd would be interested.


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## pmf (Feb 23, 2004)

Jay Strongbow said:


> I assume they are light too and they (we) tend to have a lot of suckers for anything new and light so perhaps a small segment of the no float roadie crowd would be interested.


Yeah, but that only works if the weight of the cleat -- which is basically the pedal -- is excluded. Then again, the ability of the cycling industry to churn out "improvements" and reinvent the wheel seems endless. I await the next reincarnation of biopace chain rings. Anyone spot a bike with those over size derailer pulleys lately? And oh yeah, disc brakes.


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## Pitbull Pedal (Feb 19, 2018)

pmf said:


> Are you getting the same input there as you got here? Which wasn't real positive. This is the pedal that's basically a spindle that you slide the shoe onto using an enormous cleat, right?











The answer is yes and no. We have refined the spindle and we have an entire different cleat than before I do believe.




shermes said:


> I can't believe Look decided not to move forward with your pedal, did they not see the video of Roger sprinting?


I think because we had some action shots of Roger that it kept us in the loop a little longer. 




jetdog9 said:


> Mods should merge this with the previous thread for context.
> https://forums.roadbikereview.com/general-cycling-discussion/new-pedal-363755.html


That is not a bad idea. But we have started an entire company with a website/FB/etc so it is kind of a new set up.




Oxtox said:


> great news...thanks for sharing.


No problem



No Time Toulouse said:


> So......your pedal is D.O.A., and this is the last we'll hear about it?


You never know, I'm not a quitter & an optimist.



velodog said:


> With any luck.


Everyone needs a little luck.



Lombard said:


> Reinventing the wheel is a beautiful thing.


I can't think of how many different cars that are offered. With different shapes, sizes, costs, etc. Maybe there will be room for one more set of pedals that are the fastest and easiest to learn with.



Jay Strongbow said:


> My honest opinion is that your pedal/cleat design doesn't have a market.
> 
> It does look like clipping in would be very easy. That's the only selling point I can see.
> If that is the case:
> ...


Thank you for the lengthy opinion, these are a different cleat. Maybe you can take a peak at them on the website.




pmf said:


> Yeah, but that only works if the weight of the cleat -- which is basically the pedal -- is excluded. Then again, the ability of the cycling industry to churn out "improvements" and reinvent the wheel seems endless. I await the next reincarnation of biopace chain rings. Anyone spot a bike with those over size derailer pulleys lately? And oh yeah, disc brakes.


I think that there is always room for change. Not trying to out sell Shimano. Just a couple guys having fun. It would be nice to sell a certain amount of units a month in the US and we would be happy.


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## Jay Strongbow (May 8, 2010)

pmf said:


> Yeah, but that only works if the weight of the cleat -- which is basically the pedal -- is excluded. Then again, the ability of the cycling industry to churn out "improvements" and reinvent the wheel seems endless. I await the next reincarnation of biopace chain rings. Anyone spot a bike with those over size derailer pulleys lately? And oh yeah, disc brakes.


I think my use of the word "suckers" covers that. I know, most thinking people realize that weight is weight but the dude that just cares what his 'bike' weight either doesn't realize or is happy to ignore it.

I've been thinking of picking up where speedplay left off coming up with a way to attach entire crank arms to my shoes to really cut down bike weight.


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## pmf (Feb 23, 2004)

And the OP needs to come up with a better name than pitbull pedal. Something euro techie. Lets have a name contest.


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## OldZaskar (Jul 1, 2009)

I name things for a living (really, that's my job) and I thought it was hilarious that a pedal, most feared would cause awful punctures/injuries, was named "Pitbull". Who says there's no truth in advertising ;-)


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## tlg (May 11, 2011)

pitbullbikepedal.com



> "FASTEST ROAD BIKE PEDAL"


I'd like to see the test sampling to determine this is the fastest road bike pedal. 



> Patent
> So brilliant it's patented!


lmao. You can literally patent... ANYTHING. 

Like... the Hiccup Treatment... So brilliant it's patented!


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## Pitbull Pedal (Feb 19, 2018)

pmf said:


> And the OP needs to come up with a better name than pitbull pedal. Something euro techie. Lets have a name contest.


If you had thought of this earlier I could've done it, but everything is already filed under the name. Also our logo is a pitbull holding a pedal.




OldZaskar said:


> I name things for a living (really, that's my job) and I thought it was hilarious that a pedal, most feared would cause awful punctures/injuries, was named "Pitbull". Who says there's no truth in advertising ;-)


I appreciate your job, but in this case it would be like a pitbull with no teeth. Our pedal has a full 3/4" blunt end to prevent harm in a fall.




tlg said:


> pitbullbikepedal.com
> 
> I'd like to see the test sampling to determine this is the fastest road bike pedal.
> 
> ...



Oh its you again. As far as speed, get a stopwatch and test your or anyone else's pedals. Both feet on the ground to both feet engaged. In our video I said around 2 or 2.5 seconds, which made me laugh when I played the video and timed it myself it is under 2 seconds to have both feet engaged. That is why I believe we are the fastest with a 360 degree entrance. How many patents do you have?


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## tlg (May 11, 2011)

Pitbull Pedal said:


> Oh its you again.


Yea... it's me again. And if you go back to your original thread, the idea for a * full 3/4" blunt end to prevent harm in a fall*, that was MY suggestion which you changed from your round nose design.

You're welcome.




> As far as speed, get a stopwatch and test your or anyone else's pedals. Both feet on the ground to both feet engaged. In our video I said around 2 or 2.5 seconds, which made me laugh when I played the video and timed it myself it is under 2 seconds to have both feet engaged.


I can do it in 2 or 2.5 seconds.
But that's not the point. I asked about YOUR test sampling. A sampling of (1) is meaningless.



> How many patents do you have?


One. But that doesn't prove anything. 
Like I said... anyone can patent any stupid idea. Merely having a patent is not a metric of brilliance.


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## Bremerradkurier (May 25, 2012)

Looks like a clunkier version of the early '80s Aerolite pedals.


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## velodog (Sep 26, 2007)

Bremerradkurier said:


> Looks like a clunkier version of the early '80s Aerolite pedals.


Holy smokes, they're still available!

AeroLite Pedals Official Site - Home


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## No Time Toulouse (Sep 7, 2016)

Bremerradkurier said:


> Looks like a clunkier version of the early '80s Aerolite pedals.


Hell, those things go back to the early 70's! Nothing like brand-new 45 year old technology...


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## tomato coupe (Nov 8, 2009)

Pitbull Pedal said:


> As far as speed, get a stopwatch and test your or anyone else's pedals. Both feet on the ground to both feet engaged.


If you watch cyclists start off from a stop light, they don't normally start with two feet on the ground. They typically leave one foot clipped in while they wait, or they clip in one foot before the light turns green. Then, when the light turns green they push with the clipped-in foot, and then clip in their second foot. So, if you want to make a meaningful comparison, measure the time it takes a cyclist to clip in their second foot. (I use the word "meaningful" loosely; I don't think saving a split-second clipping in is a big deal.)


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## Lombard (May 8, 2014)

tlg said:


> I'd like to see the test sampling to determine this is the fastest road bike pedal.


I'd like to see the test sampling of riders who really care about this.


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## TmB123 (Feb 8, 2013)

They remind me of these

https://www.tririg.com/store.php?c=mercury


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## Pitbull Pedal (Feb 19, 2018)

tlg said:


> Yea... it's me again. And if you go back to your original thread, the idea for a * full 3/4" blunt end to prevent harm in a fall*, that was MY suggestion which you changed from your round nose design.
> You're welcome.
> I can do it in 2 or 2.5 seconds.
> But that's not the point. I asked about YOUR test sampling. A sampling of (1) is meaningless.
> ...


I guess I never claimed to be brilliant, we are just a couple of old bucks having fun. Since you were the one that had mentioned enlarging the end of the pedal, we do appreciate it and it did improve the system I do believe. Also with the larger outside it is now virtually impossible for your foot to slide off the end. Although we had not had any trouble with it slipping so far.




Bremerradkurier said:


> Looks like a clunkier version of the early '80s Aerolite pedals.


They do have a similiar look, but the patent office thought they were different enough to issue the patent. These pedals we do believe are far superior as you do not have to locate them at all, and they hold a tremendous amount of wattage.



No Time Toulouse said:


> Hell, those things go back to the early 70's! Nothing like brand-new 45 year old technology...


Funny, I own a successful cabinet shop and I still draw on a 1950's drafting board that my father had used. I have a metal file cabinet that I keep my paperwork in. My son has everything else on the computer, it is sometimes just easier to open a paper folder than to find something on the computer. Both work, sometime the old way just works better for some.



tomato coupe said:


> If you watch cyclists start off from a stop light, they don't normally start with two feet on the ground. They typically leave one foot clipped in while they wait, or they clip in one foot before the light turns green. Then, when the light turns green they push with the clipped-in foot, and then clip in their second foot. So, if you want to make a meaningful comparison, measure the time it takes a cyclist to clip in their second foot. (I use the word "meaningful" loosely; I don't think saving a split-second clipping in is a big deal.)


I agree 100%. When I come to a stop sign or a light, I have my left foot clipped in before it turns green or before I am about to go. Where I feel we have the edge is where I push down with my left foot as the right pedal comes up, I immediately engage and am already on a power stroke.


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## tlg (May 11, 2011)

Pitbull Pedal said:


> I guess I never claimed to be brilliant, we are just a couple of old bucks having fun. .


.... as I was pointing out your website says...










"*So brilliant* it's patented!"


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## Pitbull Pedal (Feb 19, 2018)

My partner Frank is brilliant!


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## No Time Toulouse (Sep 7, 2016)

You know, for a guy who has been told by nearly everybody here (as well as by Look as well..) that his design is essentially worthless, I'm surprised that you keep coming back here for more of the same. Do you have some masochistic desire?


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## cxwrench (Nov 9, 2004)




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## Lombard (May 8, 2014)

Pitbull is a very stable genius.


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## tomato coupe (Nov 8, 2009)

Pitbull Pedal said:


> I agree 100%. When I come to a stop sign or a light, I have my left foot clipped in before it turns green or before I am about to go. Where I feel we have the edge is where I push down with my left foot as the right pedal comes up, I immediately engage and am already on a power stroke.


Then why does your "challenge" involve starting out with both feet on the ground? It serves no purpose.


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## velodog (Sep 26, 2007)

Moe, Larry, cheese!

The market is flooded, who would a thought.

AeroLite Pedals Official Site - Home

https://www.tririg.com/store.php?c=mercury

Pitbull Bike Pedal Wicked Fastest Road Bike Pedals and Clip System


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## PBL450 (Apr 12, 2014)

So, I’m not sure I understand the design... The big clip attached to the shoe gets stepped on the bar that is the pedal. There is a small protruding fixture that secures the clip and shoe onto the pedal. A few questions, and maybe they are dumb ones... How do you unclip? How secure is clip when under heavy load? Coming unclipped in a sprint could be disastrous. And last, is the pedal rotating against the clip as you turn the crank?


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## No Time Toulouse (Sep 7, 2016)

PBL450 said:


> ... And last, is the pedal rotating against the clip as you turn the crank?


It seems so, which will make it the quickest cleat to wear out, as well. This is a classic case of somebody with an idea that has little potential, but he's read all those books which tell you "never give up". Unfortunately, a design which has no potential will never be worth more than _ugatz_.....


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## tomato coupe (Nov 8, 2009)

PBL450 said:


> And last, is the pedal rotating against the clip as you turn the crank?


No, it looks like the outer part of the pedal is free to rotate, so no movement relative to the clip.


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## PBL450 (Apr 12, 2014)

tomato coupe said:


> No, it looks like the outer part of the pedal is free to rotate, so no movement relative to the clip.


Thanks for both replies! In either scenario, aren’t you rotating solid surfaces on each other? In a normal pedal isn’t that rotation happening with bearings reducing surface drag like you would have with this design? Again, pardon me, I am NO engineer! I may be too far off to answer intelligently! Haha But it seems regressive not progressive to rotate solid surfaces together?


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## tomato coupe (Nov 8, 2009)

PBL450 said:


> Thanks for both replies! In either scenario, aren’t you rotating solid surfaces on each other? In a normal pedal isn’t that rotation happening with bearings reducing surface drag like you would have with this design? Again, pardon me, I am NO engineer! I may be too far off to answer intelligently! Haha But it seems regressive not progressive to rotate solid surfaces together?


Pretty sure it has bearings, so no metal-on-metal issues.


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## kiwisimon (Oct 30, 2002)

correct, the spindle has bearings so it rotates at the crank arm. There is no movement at the cleat.


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## PBL450 (Apr 12, 2014)

kiwisimon said:


> correct, the spindle has bearings so it rotates at the crank arm. There is no movement at the cleat.


Thanks!


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## aclinjury (Sep 12, 2011)

hmm I think this is great for those who ride with clipless in heavy traffic.
I have seen TOO many riders who have problem getting clipped in at major intersections, and they would look down to try to clip in but in looking down they also swerve their bike sometimes dangerously into traffic or to the adjacent riders.

I've been this happen a lot to riders, from using Shimano, Look, Speedplay systems. A LOT!

As a person who also do mtb, I would definitely be interested if the cleats can survive an occasional off the bike walk (which doesn't look like can).


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## Lombard (May 8, 2014)

No Time Toulouse said:


> It seems so, which will make it the quickest cleat to wear out, as well. This is a classic case of somebody with an idea that has little potential, but he's read all those books which tell you "never give up".


There's that. And then there's this:


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## Pitbull Pedal (Feb 19, 2018)

No Time Toulouse said:


> You know, for a guy who has been told by nearly everybody here (as well as by Look as well..) that his design is essentially worthless, I'm surprised that you keep coming back here for more of the same. Do you have some masochistic desire?


Your opinion is valuable to yourself and you should appreciate that. The actual cleat system works exactly as I have described. Which is virtually perfect. It will be very inexpensive to produce. I am actually more enthusiastic after speaking with look over so many months as they had complimented the design.




Lombard said:


> Pitbull is a very stable genius.


I guess I am not as bright as some, because I don't understand this comment.



tomato coupe said:


> Then why does your "challenge" involve starting out with both feet on the ground? It serves no purpose.


We just wanted to show how fast it was with both feet on the ground. Whenever you are in a group ride and you are at an intersection you'll only have 1 foot clipped in. At intersections is where the cleat would shine. As soon as you push off with one foot and the pedal rotates up, you just automatically clip into the 360 degree entry and you are already on a power stroke. So it is just an extremely easy and fast pedal to ride with. Even more so in groups.



velodog said:


> Moe, Larry, cheese!
> The market is flooded, who would a thought.
> AeroLite Pedals Official Site - Home
> https://www.tririg.com/store.php?c=mercury
> Pitbull Bike Pedal Wicked Fastest Road Bike Pedals and Clip System


While they all do look similar, they do not all work alike. Most of the pedals even though they are round still need to locate the entry point. You cannot pull really hard on the upstroke like on ours. I believe that with the simplistic design and ability to rebuild them so easily is why I believe they gave us the patent.



PBL450 said:


> So, I’m not sure I understand the design... The big clip attached to the shoe gets stepped on the bar that is the pedal. There is a small protruding fixture that secures the clip and shoe onto the pedal. A few questions, and maybe they are dumb ones... How do you unclip? How secure is clip when under heavy load? Coming unclipped in a sprint could be disastrous. And last, is the pedal rotating against the clip as you turn the crank?


Simply rotating your heel like any other pedal will allow you to unclip. The clip seems to be extremely secure as we have in a video showed bouncing a 25 pound weight hanging from it without any slippage. The pedal is locked into the cleat with the spring steel. The exterior pedal is rotating on the inside bearings around the center axle. Something that we had forgotten to mention is that it is not impossible but extremely hard to ride the bike without the cleat on your shoe. Therefore if someone tried to steal your bike and they thought they'd just jump on and pedal away, they'd have a hell of a time as their shoe would just roll off the pedal.



No Time Toulouse said:


> It seems so, which will make it the quickest cleat to wear out, as well. This is a classic case of somebody with an idea that has little potential, but he's read all those books which tell you "never give up". Unfortunately, a design which has no potential will never be worth more than _ugatz_.....


Thanks for your words of encouragement.




tomato coupe said:


> No, it looks like the outer part of the pedal is free to rotate, so no movement relative to the clip.


That is correct.



PBL450 said:


> Thanks for both replies! In either scenario, aren’t you rotating solid surfaces on each other? In a normal pedal isn’t that rotation happening with bearings reducing surface drag like you would have with this design? Again, pardon me, I am NO engineer! I may be too far off to answer intelligently! Haha But it seems regressive not progressive to rotate solid surfaces together?


We are riding on bearings.



tomato coupe said:


> Pretty sure it has bearings, so no metal-on-metal issues.


That is correct also.



kiwisimon said:


> correct, the spindle has bearings so it rotates at the crank arm. There is no movement at the cleat.


Correct



aclinjury said:


> hmm I think this is great for those who ride with clipless in heavy traffic.
> I have seen TOO many riders who have problem getting clipped in at major intersections, and they would look down to try to clip in but in looking down they also swerve their bike sometimes dangerously into traffic or to the adjacent riders.
> I've been this happen a lot to riders, from using Shimano, Look, Speedplay systems. A LOT!
> As a person who also do mtb, I would definitely be interested if the cleats can survive an occasional off the bike walk (which doesn't look like can).


On our website we showed that I literally walked 2 miles aggressively on a concrete sidewalk and the clip worked perfectly. Another thing that we are going to do to try and help promote the system is even though the clips last a long time we are going to give 3 sets of clips in each box with the set of pedals. That should save everyone quite a lot.


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## cxwrench (Nov 9, 2004)

Pitbull Pedal said:


> While they all do look similar, they do not all work alike. Most of the pedals even though they are round still need to locate the entry point. *You cannot pull really hard on the upstroke like on ours. * I believe that with the simplistic design and ability to rebuild them so easily is why I believe they gave us the patent.


No one should be 'pulling really hard on the upstroke'. You should get that thought out of your heads before more people find out how little you know about pedals and pedaling dynamics.


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## Bremerradkurier (May 25, 2012)

cxwrench said:


> No one should be 'pulling really hard on the upstroke'. You should get that thought out of your heads before more people find out how little you know about pedals and pedaling dynamics.


Faux clipless pedal bunny hopping with poor technique? Not sure if Aerolites stayed engaged in this case.


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## Pitbull Pedal (Feb 19, 2018)

cxwrench said:


> No one should be 'pulling really hard on the upstroke'. You should get that thought out of your heads before more people find out how little you know about pedals and pedaling dynamics.


Obviously you are correct. There is nowhere near as much upward pressure as the downward pressure a sprinter can lay down. But there is a push and pull method that a lot of people use. We are just assuring that it will not come off on the up stroke. We do have a tension screw to adjust how easy it is to clip out of. You can set it for extremely tight as a lot of the pro riders do that I have read about.



Bremerradkurier said:


> Faux clipless pedal bunny hopping with poor technique? Not sure if Aerolites stayed engaged in this case.


With the system we have you can easily jump over any small curbs. Thanks


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## pmf (Feb 23, 2004)

I think the OP is playing you guys.


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## velodog (Sep 26, 2007)

pmf said:


> I think the OP is playing you guys.


That's what salesmen do.


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## QuiQuaeQuod (Jan 24, 2003)

velodog said:


> That's what salesmen do.


They tend to try to avoid alienating customers and potential customers as they play people.

The good ones at least.


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## Pitbull Pedal (Feb 19, 2018)

pmf said:


> I think the OP is playing you guys.


If you mean you think I'm playing around, I am not.



velodog said:


> That's what salesmen do.


I'm not trying to sell anyone in particular on this site a pedal, but if it all worked out after the crowdsourcing I'm sure I'd send one to whomever.



QuiQuaeQuod said:


> They tend to try to avoid alienating customers and potential customers as they play people.
> The good ones at least.


There is no car salesman here. We're just two old bucks having some fun with a pedal that we created. We just feel that it works the best.


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## Pitbull Pedal (Feb 19, 2018)

I have been having fun with this discussion with everyone. Like I had said this isn't the cure for cancer. It is just something that Frank and I had come up with after years of riding. I think that I'll take a picture of some of our earlier thoughts & prototypes. You should get a kick out of some of the crazy stuff we started with.


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## aclinjury (Sep 12, 2011)

Bremerradkurier said:


> Faux clipless pedal bunny hopping with poor technique? Not sure if Aerolites stayed engaged in this case.


man you hit it! I know a fellow mtber who has on at least one occasion has pulled his right foot out of his clipless pedal while trying to clear a large log, and ended up scrapping his shin against the pedal, ouch! Don't remember if he was using Shimano or Crank brothers. I've also seen a few users of CB pedals who got their foot disenaged on bumpy downhill and their cleats are a bit worn. Can be scary that you'll going downhill over roots and rocks and suddenly a foot came flying out of your Eggbeater which has really no plaftform!


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## PBL450 (Apr 12, 2014)

I


Pitbull Pedal said:


> I have been having fun with this discussion with everyone. Like I had said this isn't the cure for cancer. It is just something that Frank and I had come up with after years of riding. I think that I'll take a picture of some of our earlier thoughts & prototypes. You should get a kick out of some of the crazy stuff we started with.


Thanks for the replies.


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## QuiQuaeQuod (Jan 24, 2003)

Pitbull Pedal said:


> There is no car salesman here. We're just two old bucks having some fun with a pedal that we created. We just feel that it works the best.


Hard to square "having some fun" with trying to sell to Look. Is a salesman a salesman before he makes a sale? I say yes, so failed salesman it is!

Lots of people think their child is beautiful and smart. No matter how scabby and drippy and behind on average development the kid is.

I am glad your hideous child.... i mean pedal... brings you so much joy.


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## bvber (Apr 23, 2011)

QuiQuaeQuod said:


> Lots of people think their child is beautiful and smart. No matter how scabby and drippy and behind on average development the kid is.
> 
> I am glad your hideous child.... i mean pedal... brings you so much joy.


A bit off topic but I have witnessed something like this over the weekend. I was walking on local MUT and there is a portion which has a separate bike land and pedestrian lane. A dude in his early 30's was crossing the bike lane and an elderly woman was following him but stopped in the middle (for unknown reason). Then an approaching cyclist had to swerve around her while yelling, "Watch, get outta the way!". This dude in his early 30's looked upset that someone yelled at her. They appear to be from out of town and not familiar with the MUT safety around here so I tried to explain to him why that happened, "Hey guys, it's a bike lane and that's why that cyclist yel..." Before I finished my sentence, he shouts, "Shut the f#@% up! She's my mother! I'll beat your a$$!". Such language in front of his own mother, not to mention the disregard for safety first. I told him that I was just trying to help and he yells again, "Shut the f#@% up!" in front of his own mother. I turned around and walked away. What a hideous child he is.


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## velodog (Sep 26, 2007)

bvber said:


> A bit off topic but I have witnessed something like this over the weekend. I was walking on local MUT and there is a portion which has a separate bike land and pedestrian lane. A dude in his early 30's was crossing the bike lane and an elderly woman was following him but stopped in the middle (for unknown reason). Then an approaching cyclist had to swerve around her while yelling, "Watch, get outta the way!". This dude in his early 30's looked upset that someone yelled at her. They appear to be from out of town and not familiar with the MUT safety around here so I tried to explain to him why that happened, "Hey guys, it's a bike lane and that's why that cyclist yel..." Before I finished my sentence, he shouts, "Shut the f#@% up! She's my mother! I'll beat your a$$!". Such language in front of his own mother, not to mention the disregard for safety first. I told him that I was just trying to help and he yells again, "Shut the f#@% up!" in front of his own mother. I turned around and walked away. What a hideous child he is.


Maybe they left Canaryville for the day.


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## tomato coupe (Nov 8, 2009)

Pitbull Pedal said:


> We're just two old bucks having some fun with a pedal that we created.


You stated this in several posts, yet you are actively trying to get someone else to finance and manufacture your pedals. How do you pitch the idea to potential investors? "We just want to have fun, but we'd like you to take on all the financial risk and then pay us royalties if things pan out." Even with a good product idea, that would be a non-starter for investors. If you really believe in your product, you need to put some skin in the game.


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## jkc (Jun 23, 2014)

velodog said:


> Moe, Larry, cheese!
> 
> The market is flooded, who would a thought.
> 
> ...


Wow, AeroLite pedal is still around. Thought those was joke back in the late 80s/early 90s. One guy on our collegiate team used it for about a month and stop talking about them after the first crit. Fun times.


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## Pitbull Pedal (Feb 19, 2018)

Yeah I have seen a lot of pictures of those and similar. I just feel that ours are superior as you cannot slip out of them without intentionally kicking your heel out like a standard pedal.


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## Pitbull Pedal (Feb 19, 2018)

We just got our cards. Hopefully we'll find someone to give them to haha.


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## No Time Toulouse (Sep 7, 2016)

Wow, some people just can't take a hint...


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## Oxtox (Aug 16, 2006)

wonder how many here would even accept a free sample of these pedals...

I know I'm not interested.


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## velodog (Sep 26, 2007)

Oxtox said:


> wonder how many here would even accept a free sample of these pedals...
> 
> I know I'm not interested.


I woulda tried the AeroLite's years ago if I was interested.


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## Pitbull Pedal (Feb 19, 2018)

tomato coupe said:


> You stated this in several posts, yet you are actively trying to get someone else to finance and manufacture your pedals. How do you pitch the idea to potential investors? "We just want to have fun, but we'd like you to take on all the financial risk and then pay us royalties if things pan out." Even with a good product idea, that would be a non-starter for investors. If you really believe in your product, you need to put some skin in the game.


A lot of what you say I agree with. This is actually not our first attempt on the hunt for the golden goose. We have moved forward with other projects out of pocket. This is the first time that we would be going in this direction. As far as looking for an investor or crowdsourcing. I have another small business endeavor as I enjoy anything that goes fast. You can check out my hotrod online at mikeswickedstreetrails.com 

As far as investors, the amount of money that we are looking for in my mind is a drop in the bucket to an actually wealthy person looking to invest. There are people out there that throw this kind of money in a single roll of the dice and simply walk away. We will be doing all of the cleat mold building and production in house. This is just my thoughts.


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## tomato coupe (Nov 8, 2009)

Pitbull Pedal said:


> As far as investors, the amount of money that we are looking for in my mind is a drop in the bucket to an actually wealthy person looking to invest. There are people out there that throw this kind of money in a single roll of the dice and simply walk away.


Seriously, that's your business plan?


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## No Time Toulouse (Sep 7, 2016)

tomato coupe said:


> Seriously, that's your business plan?


Troll for suckers on Kickstarter, it seems....


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## Pitbull Pedal (Feb 19, 2018)

It appears on my end that we have missed a few comments. For some reason when we click the thread it will not show new comments, but if we click the last response on the right it took me straight to yours. I really do not know much about trolling on the internet, but I did research some crowdsourcing options. It seems like it is a good way to try and bring the market in by offering an exceptional deal to the person that invested in the new system. I felt that it would be a win win for everyone involved.


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## cxwrench (Nov 9, 2004)

Looks like things are going equally as well for you on your instagram account...


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## Pitbull Pedal (Feb 19, 2018)

We had just started it recently. The guy who runs my website had just started it as I don't know anything about Instagram currently.


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## Pitbull Pedal (Feb 19, 2018)

We do have some really good news to report. I had sent an email to our local news channel and they had responded in a good way. We just finished up a long interview plus some video for Bay News 9 here in Tampa Bay. I don't know how many of you have been in front of a TV camera before but thank god for editing. They are going to let me know when it is going to be aired, possibly later on this afternoon.


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## cxwrench (Nov 9, 2004)

Pitbull Pedal said:


> We had just started it recently. The guy who runs my website had just started it as *I don't know anything about Instagram currently.*


I'd figure it out pretty quick, there's a few people using it.


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## xxl (Mar 19, 2002)

Pitbull Pedal said:


> We do have some really good news to report. I had sent an email to our local news channel and they had responded in a good way. We just finished up a long interview plus some video for Bay News 9 here in Tampa Bay. I don't know how many of you have been in front of a TV camera before but thank god for editing. They are going to let me know when it is going to be aired, possibly later on this afternoon.


Slow news day?

The lead-in: "Local man's design for component in fringe sport fails to enthuse other sport participants--film at eleven"


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## No Time Toulouse (Sep 7, 2016)

Pitbull Pedal said:


> We do have some really good news to report. I had sent an email to our local news channel and they had responded in a good way. We just finished up a long interview plus some video for Bay News 9 here in Tampa Bay. ...


Slow news day???


----------



## Oxtox (Aug 16, 2006)

Pitbull Pedal said:


> We do have some really good news to report. I had sent an email to our local news channel and they had responded in a good way. We just finished up a long interview plus some video for Bay News 9 here in Tampa Bay. I don't know how many of you have been in front of a TV camera before but thank god for editing. They are going to let me know when it is going to be aired, possibly later on this afternoon.


sure you killed in the interview.

'we have a pedal design that gets less-than-rave reviews by potential users'...

does the phrase 'glutton for punishment' ring a bell...?


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## cxwrench (Nov 9, 2004)

xxl said:


> Slow news day?
> 
> The lead-in: "Local man's design for component in fringe sport fails to enthuse other sport participants--film at eleven"


I tried!

"You must spread some Reputation around before giving it to xxl again."


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## Pitbull Pedal (Feb 19, 2018)

I talked to my website guy, and he had informed me that he had started us the Instagram page. I'll be looking into that.

Seems to be so easy to come up with negative remarks, the way I look at this is at least I am giving it a shot and I'm enjoying doing it. If I succeed or not only time will tell.


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## Pitbull Pedal (Feb 19, 2018)

We had just checked the Bay News 9 website and they have already have the segment on their webpage. You can see it here https://www.baynews9.com/fl/tampa/news/2019/09/11/safety-harbor-designers-create-new-bicycle-pedal#


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## velodog (Sep 26, 2007)

Pitbull Pedal said:


> I talked to my website guy, and he had informed me that he had started us the Instagram page. I'll be looking into that.
> 
> Seems to be so easy to come up with negative remarks, the way I look at this is at least I am giving it a shot and I'm enjoying doing it. If I succeed or not only time will tell.


The thing is, this is not a new idea. Two incarnations have been shown, the older being 20 years or something, I don't remember, and I don't remember ever seeing either of them in the wild. It's not a new idea, just an old one that, pretty much, nobody has taken to, and I don't see your _improvements_ changing that.


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## tlg (May 11, 2011)

Pitbull Pedal said:


> We had just checked the Bay News 9 website and they have already have the segment on their webpage. You can see it here https://www.baynews9.com/fl/tampa/news/2019/09/11/safety-harbor-designers-create-new-bicycle-pedal#


Bwahahahahaha. The very first line "It's hard to come up with these ideas". 

The idea isn't new.

"Two seconds could be the win of the Crit or not". DERP. You have NO CLUE how bike racing works.


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## bvber (Apr 23, 2011)

velodog said:


> The thing is, this is not a new idea. Two incarnations have been shown, the older being 20 years or something, I don't remember, and I don't remember ever seeing either of them in the wild. It's not a new idea, just an old one that, pretty much, nobody has taken to, and I don't see your _improvements_ changing that.


It would be a new idea if this pedal has float.


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## velodog (Sep 26, 2007)

bvber said:


> It would be a new idea if this pedal has float.


Sure, but the idea will probably sink.


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## Bremerradkurier (May 25, 2012)

Yo Dawg meme with Pitbull pedals and Pit Viper sunglasses gravel riding around a Pittsburgh gravel pit?


----------



## Lombard (May 8, 2014)

I have to say that I am not about to jump out and try this. The lack of float on this pedal design is a deal breaker for me.

But to be perfectly fair, many ideas that have been tried before and failed, later succeeded in a slightly different form. Look at the AMC Pacer which was a total flop. Nicknamed "bubble car", "rolling gumball machine" and "blimp on wheels", it was the butt of jokes throughout the 1970's and 80's winning a Motor Trend Ugly Car Competition. Four decades later, look at all the bulbous, turtle-looking SUV's out there. Was the Pacer too far ahead of its time? Of course to be fair again, the AMC bean counters assured the final production result would be a dismal driving failure, regardless of its lack of visual appeal.

But I digress.


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## Pitbull Pedal (Feb 19, 2018)

bvber said:


> It would be a new idea if this pedal has float.


I guess you may of missed where I had said earlier that there is float available.




Lombard said:


> I have to say that I am not about to jump out and try this. The lack of float on this pedal design is a deal breaker for me.
> 
> But to be perfectly fair, many ideas that have been tried before and failed, later succeeded in a slightly different form. Look at the AMC Pacer which was a total flop. Nicknamed "bubble car", "rolling gumball machine" and "blimp on wheels", it was the butt of jokes throughout the 1970's and 80's winning a Motor Trend Ugly Car Competition. Four decades later, look at all the bulbous, turtle-looking SUV's out there. Was the Pacer too far ahead of its time? Of course to be fair again, the AMC bean counters assured the final production result would be a dismal driving failure, regardless of its lack of visual appeal.
> 
> But I digress.


Again I don't know where in this thread it has gotten lost but there is definitely float available in the pedals. I prefer the ones with no float but to each their own.



velodog said:


> The thing is, this is not a new idea. Two incarnations have been shown, the older being 20 years or something, I don't remember, and I don't remember ever seeing either of them in the wild. It's not a new idea, just an old one that, pretty much, nobody has taken to, and I don't see your _improvements_ changing that.


These pedals are similar in their looks but I assure you that they are quite different. Especially with the ability to have the float.




tlg said:


> Bwahahahahaha. The very first line "It's hard to come up with these ideas".
> 
> The idea isn't new.
> 
> "Two seconds could be the win of the Crit or not". DERP. You have NO CLUE how bike racing works.


Obviously the idea is not new. It is just a better version of what others had come up with. I cannot understand why it is so hard for anyone to understand this. There are similarities but ours is different and that is how we were awarded a patent, as an example with the ability to have float.


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## tlg (May 11, 2011)

Pitbull Pedal said:


> Obviously the idea is not new. It is just a better version of what others had come up with. I cannot understand why it is so hard for anyone to understand this.


Not really obvious to your TV audience where you said "It's hard to come up with these ideas".

Woulda been good for the News to cut to shots of these while you're explaining how it's hard to come up with these ideas


----------



## tomato coupe (Nov 8, 2009)

Pitbull Pedal said:


> It is just a better version of what others had come up with. I cannot understand why it is so hard for anyone to understand this..


I think _you_ don't understand what many cyclists are telling you -- a solution to a nonexistent problem offers little value. (Even if it is a "better" solution to the nonexistent problem.)


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## Pitbull Pedal (Feb 19, 2018)

tlg said:


> Not really obvious to your TV audience where you said "It's hard to come up with these ideas".
> 
> Woulda been good for the News to cut to shots of these while you're explaining how it's hard to come up with these ideas


Like I believe I had said before, these pedals are similar. But I cannot stress enough that ours are different. The way you engage them is much quicker, and they have the option for the float where the older pedals did not offer (from what I understand of them.)



tomato coupe said:


> I think _you_ don't understand what many cyclists are telling you -- a solution to a nonexistent problem offers little value. (Even if it is a "better" solution to the nonexistent problem.)


This is not some type of breakthrough that is going to benefit the world. It just in our opinions is a much easier option to use, especially when you trying to become a cyclist vs. just someone who rides a bicycle.


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## tlg (May 11, 2011)

Pitbull Pedal said:


> Like I believe I had said before, these pedals are similar. But I cannot stress enough that ours are different. The way you engage them is much quicker, and they have the option for the float where the older pedals did not offer (from what I understand of them.)


You really really have a hard time paying attention to what people are telling you. Yes you have said before they're similar (HERE).... *BUT not in your TV interview*. You portrayed your 'idea' in your TV interview like it was some great new idea. It's not. You did not tell the TV interviewer that your pedals are an improvement of (multiple) existing designs.




> It just in our opinions is a much easier option to use, especially when you trying to become a cyclist vs. just someone who rides a bicycle.


Oh I just love how you come here spouting that your idea is just a couple old bucks having fun making it easier for beginners, yet in your TV interview touting the benefits of 2 seconds for Crit racers. 

You are all over the place.


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## Pitbull Pedal (Feb 19, 2018)

tlg said:


> You really really have a hard time paying attention to what people are telling you. Yes you have said before they're similar (HERE).... *BUT not in your TV interview*. You portrayed your 'idea' in your TV interview like it was some great new idea. It's not. You did not tell the TV interviewer that your pedals are an improvement of (multiple) existing designs.
> 
> 
> Oh I just love how you come here spouting that your idea is just a couple old bucks having fun making it easier for beginners, yet in your TV interview touting the benefits of 2 seconds for Crit racers.
> ...


Man you are a tough critic. Actually all of that came about from the reporter, as she did a lot of running and racing. What your saw was just parts of the hour plus interview that has been edited down. She just chose to use those parts. As you can tell from the news report, we are a couple of old bucks.


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## tomato coupe (Nov 8, 2009)

Pitbull Pedal said:


> It just in our opinions is a much easier option to use, *especially when you trying to become a cyclist vs. just someone who rides a bicycle.*


I don't understand what that means. 

One other suggestion -- you'd be better off dropping some of the BS in your sales pitch, like how clip-in time can mean the difference in a bike race.


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## Pitbull Pedal (Feb 19, 2018)

tomato coupe said:


> I don't understand what that means.
> 
> One other suggestion -- you'd be better off dropping some of the BS in your sales pitch, like how clip-in time can mean the difference in a bike race.


As far as the difference between a cyclist and a bicycle rider is in my mind a bicycle rider is just a mother/father riding through the park with their child enjoying the day together. A cyclist is someone down on the drops and trying to get everything out of their bike & body while they are doing intervals.

Like I had mentioned, we must of done an entire hour long interview. The lady just took bits and pieces out of what I had said and that is what you hear in the interview. So as far as me stating BS I don't think that is a fair assessment.


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## Oxtox (Aug 16, 2006)

Pitbull Pedal said:


> As far as the difference between a cyclist and a bicycle rider is in my mind a bicycle rider is just a mother/father riding through the park with their child enjoying the day together. A cyclist is someone down on the drops and trying to get everything out of their bike & body while they are doing intervals.


your definition of a 'cyclist' is simply absurd.

I own two rather expensive bikes, have full kit, and ride daily (9K+ miles per year). in over a half-century of being a cyclist, I've never done a single interval.


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## tlg (May 11, 2011)

Pitbull Pedal said:


> As far as the difference between a cyclist and a bicycle rider is in my mind a bicycle rider is just a mother/father riding through the park with their child enjoying the day together. A cyclist is someone down on the drops and trying to get everything out of their bike & body while they are doing intervals.


OMG! :crazy:


So what does that make your buddy Roger? Clearly he's not a mother/father riding through the park. Nor is he a 'cyclist' down 'in the drops' trying to get everything out of his body.


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## Pitbull Pedal (Feb 19, 2018)

tlg said:


> OMG! :crazy:
> 
> 
> So what does that make your buddy Roger? Clearly he's not a mother/father riding through the park. Nor is he a 'cyclist' down 'in the drops' trying to get everything out of his body.


You guys are funny. This is just me making a short video of him with a high cadence producing a lot of wattage for the video. Roger is a good cyclist. I would say at a minimum B+




Oxtox said:


> your definition of a 'cyclist' is simply absurd.
> 
> I own two rather expensive bikes, have full kit, and ride daily (9K+ miles per year). in over a half-century of being a cyclist, I've never done a single interval.


I value your opinion that my thought on this is absurd. That is the value of opinions, we all have one. If you do not understand what I was trying to say please excuse me for my word choices.


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## tomato coupe (Nov 8, 2009)

Pitbull Pedal said:


> As far as the difference between a cyclist and a bicycle rider is in my mind a bicycle rider is just a mother/father riding through the park with their child enjoying the day together. A cyclist is someone down on the drops and trying to get everything out of their bike & body while they are doing intervals.


I'm going to agree with one of the other posters, that you are all over the place with this. One moment you're pitching these as a pedal for beginners, and now you seem to be pitching them to hard core cyclist doing training intervals. You might have a chance with the former, but the latter group is unlikely to see any advantage to your pedals.



> Like I had mentioned, we must of done an entire hour long interview. The lady just took bits and pieces out of what I had said and that is what you hear in the interview. So as far as me stating BS I don't think that is a fair assessment.


The fact is, you said it, and it _is_ total BS. No one ever won or lost a bike race because they clipped in a fraction of a second earlier or later.


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## tlg (May 11, 2011)

Pitbull Pedal said:


> You guys are funny. This is just me making a short video of him with a high cadence producing a lot of wattage for the video. Roger is a good cyclist. I would say at a minimum B+
> .


Per your definition Roger is not a cyclist, let alone a good one


----------



## shermes (Jul 26, 2008)

tlg said:


> Per your definition Roger is not a cyclist, let alone a good one


With all due respect to you I think you're wrong about Roger, he's a "sick sprinter" he's got a Garmin and a "watt meter" he also "did a hit on his Garmin". Roger is stupid fast, the bike shop said so, love that guy!


----------



## No Time Toulouse (Sep 7, 2016)

Oxtox said:


> ....
> 
> does the phrase 'glutton for punishment' ring a bell...?


This guy is better at dealing with hecklers than Rodney Dangerfield!


----------



## aclinjury (Sep 12, 2011)

shermes said:


> With all due respect to you I think you're wrong about Roger, he's a "sick sprinter" he's got a Garmin and a "watt meter" he also "did a hit on his Garmin". Roger is stupid fast, the bike shop said so, love that guy!


I get that the residents in here wanting to troll the old buck a hard time, but nobody who's ever raced even at an amateur level will just casually call Roger not a good cyclist. Are you kidding me almost 1300w is f888 awesome from a guy his age. I know plenty of cat 1/2/3 guys (some state and national level) who cannot produce that sort of peak wattage, sitting down no less.

Cmon guys, I get you like to like to entertain yourself with Pitbull, but please man respect Roger's cycling. Roger seems like the type of buck that is willing and able to pull a peloton all day and won't mind doing it. So guys, don't let your fun trolling degenerate into disrespecting another cyclist!


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## tlg (May 11, 2011)

aclinjury said:


> I
> Cmon guys, I get you like to like to entertain yourself with Pitbull, but please man respect Roger's cycling. Roger seems like the type of buck that is willing and able to pull a peloton all day and won't mind doing it. So guys, don't let your fun trolling degenerate into disrespecting another cyclist!


The only person who said Rodger isn't a cyclist is Pitbull!


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## ogre (Dec 16, 2005)

aclinjury said:


> Roger seems like the type of buck that is willing and able to pull a peloton all day and won't mind doing it.


I could sit on that wheel all day! I bet we could crank out a sub 6 hour century!


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## bvber (Apr 23, 2011)

tlg said:


> The only person who said Rodger isn't a cyclist is Pitbull!


Did he say it with a song?


----------



## Pitbull Pedal (Feb 19, 2018)

tomato coupe said:


> I'm going to agree with one of the other posters, that you are all over the place with this. One moment you're pitching these as a pedal for beginners, and now you seem to be pitching them to hard core cyclist doing training intervals. You might have a chance with the former, but the latter group is unlikely to see any advantage to your pedals.
> 
> The fact is, you said it, and it _is_ total BS. No one ever won or lost a bike race because they clipped in a fraction of a second earlier or later.


Again we did an hour long interview with the newscaster and had a lot of conversations. We spoke for over an hour. I cannot help how they edited and set the thing together. I do believe that these pedals could be the best for both worlds. In the beginning I think that they are the easiest for a newbie to learn to use. Secondly if you are a weekend warrior riding with a group, they are super easy to clip into so you are not messing up and frustrating yourself or others in the group. Up to date they have proven to hold tremendous wattage if you are in a hard sprint.




tlg said:


> Per your definition Roger is not a cyclist, let alone a good one


I don't really understand you.




shermes said:


> With all due respect to you I think you're wrong about Roger, he's a "sick sprinter" he's got a Garmin and a "watt meter" he also "did a hit on his Garmin". Roger is stupid fast, the bike shop said so, love that guy!


I know you are being funny/sarcastic. But Roger isn't going to be winning the Tour-de-France but he is a good rider like I had said, at least a B+.




No Time Toulouse said:


> This guy is better at dealing with hecklers than Rodney Dangerfield!


What is a heckler? 




aclinjury said:


> I get that the residents in here wanting to troll the old buck a hard time, but nobody who's ever raced even at an amateur level will just casually call Roger not a good cyclist. Are you kidding me almost 1300w is f888 awesome from a guy his age. I know plenty of cat 1/2/3 guys (some state and national level) who cannot produce that sort of peak wattage, sitting down no less.
> 
> Cmon guys, I get you like to like to entertain yourself with Pitbull, but please man respect Roger's cycling. Roger seems like the type of buck that is willing and able to pull a peloton all day and won't mind doing it. So guys, don't let your fun trolling degenerate into disrespecting another cyclist!


I appreciate this. Roger has brought me to a level of riding that I never thought I would achieve at my age.




tlg said:


> The only person who said Rodger isn't a cyclist is Pitbull!


?



ogre said:


> I could sit on that wheel all day! I bet we could crank out a sub 6 hour century!


I don't know what the actual number would be but I can believe that it is achievable. Especially if you are fortunate enough to get an east to west 100mi with an east wind. Like whenever we ride across Florida.


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## tlg (May 11, 2011)

Pitbull Pedal said:


> I don't really understand you.


 YOUR definition of a cyclist:



Pitbull Pedal said:


> As far as the difference between a cyclist and a bicycle rider is in my mind a bicycle rider is just a mother/father riding through the park with their child enjoying the day together. A cyclist is *someone down on the drops* and trying to get everything out of their bike & body while they are doing intervals.


Rodger is not down on the drops. Thus per your definition he's not a cyclist.


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## Pitbull Pedal (Feb 19, 2018)

tlg said:


> YOUR definition of a cyclist:
> 
> 
> Rodger is not down on the drops. Thus per your definition he's not a cyclist.


You made me laugh. It is one video just for the website. It is not like you are out doing interval training or distance training. It was just a single video.


----------



## xxl (Mar 19, 2002)

"Up to date they have proven to hold tremendous wattage if you are in a hard sprint."

What does this mean, and where has this been proven?:

"...Roger isn't going to be winning the Tour-de-France but he is a good rider like I had said, at least a B+...."

Why not, if he's generating 1300W? (Cf. https://cyclingtips.com/2017/06/just-how-good-are-male-pro-road-cyclists/)


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## tomato coupe (Nov 8, 2009)

Pitbull Pedal said:


> Again we did an hour long interview with the newscaster and had a lot of conversations. We spoke for over an hour. I cannot help how they edited and set the thing together.


The video was edited, but your statement is pretty clear. If you don't want a reporter to include BS in their story, don't feed them BS in the interview. 

The clip in the video showing how much quicker your pedals are is more BS. Your partner makes his initial downward stroke well after you do so, of course, he clips in later. 

If you want some credibility, cut out all this BS.



> Up to date they have proven to hold tremendous wattage if you are in a hard sprint.


Power is not the issue. Torque/force is what will cause you to unclip prematurely. Sitting and spinning at high cadence, like your friend does in the video, doesn't generate maximum torque/force on the pedal.


----------



## No Time Toulouse (Sep 7, 2016)

Lombard said:


> ..... Look at the AMC Pacer which was a total flop. Nicknamed "bubble car", "rolling gumball machine" and "blimp on wheels", it was the butt of jokes throughout the 1970's and 80's winning a Motor Trend Ugly Car Competition. Four decades later, look at all the bulbous, turtle-looking SUV's out there. Was the Pacer too far ahead of its time?...


The problem with the Pacer wasn't that it was 'ahead of it's time', it was just ugly, poorly designed, and poorly built. Basically, it was a piece of ****; the only reason it has any collectability today rests solely in the hideous styling. This thing isn't even ugly enough to have that; it's more like the AMC Concord, if you are looking for an automotive analogy.

What he has here is a design that is, at best 30 years too late to be marketable, which takes the main elements from a design of roughly that period, complicates it, makes it more expensive and heavier.



Pitbull Pedal said:


> ....... We spoke for over an hour. ....


I'm not surprised...



Pitbull Pedal said:


> ....I don't really understand you.
> ........


Nor do we understand you. This thing ain't gonna make you one red cent. In the end, you'll lose any money you put into it. Hope you aren't betting the house on this. If you are, you're an even bigger fool than than we already consider you to be.


----------



## shermes (Jul 26, 2008)

aclinjury said:


> I get that the residents in here wanting to troll the old buck a hard time, but nobody who's ever raced even at an amateur level will just casually call Roger not a good cyclist. Are you kidding me almost 1300w is f888 awesome from a guy his age. I know plenty of cat 1/2/3 guys (some state and national level) who cannot produce that sort of peak wattage, sitting down no less.
> 
> Cmon guys, I get you like to like to entertain yourself with Pitbull, but please man respect Roger's cycling. Roger seems like the type of buck that is willing and able to pull a peloton all day and won't mind doing it. So guys, don't let your fun trolling degenerate into disrespecting another cyclist!


My post wasn't a directed at Roger, it was directed towards Mike(Pitbull) and the fact that a guy who want's to "take the sport of cycling to the next level with his invention" doesn't come across as someone who is very knowledgeable about cycling. I don't know Roger but just from the video I'm going guess he's not the kind of person who sit's around worrying about what some random person on the internet might have said about him. I would not post anything on the internet I would't be willing to say to them face to face and take whatever consequences that go with it. I hope Mike comes up with a pedal that sells successfully if that's what he wants to do but he may want to humble himself a bit, as tlg pointed out Mike is the one who made the assertion of what a cyclist is.


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## ogre (Dec 16, 2005)

Pitbull Pedal said:


> I don't know what the actual number would be but I can believe that it is achievable. Especially if you are fortunate enough to get an east to west 100mi with an east wind. Like whenever we ride across Florida.







Roger may only be hitting about 15 mph there, so it may actually be a 6:40 century.


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## Lombard (May 8, 2014)

No Time Toulouse said:


> The problem with the Pacer wasn't that it was 'ahead of it's time', it was just ugly, poorly designed, and poorly built.


The Pacer wasn't ugly, it was FUGLY!!! A real road toad with a face even a mother could hate. But as I said, look how many ugly bubble looking SUV's we have on the roads now. Was the Pacer really that much uglier?

The original design of the Pacer wasn't a bad concept. What doomed the Pacer was the bean counters at AMC. It originally was to get its own chassis. Instead, in order to cut costs, the pregnant body was paired with the Gremlin chassis. The result was a car that drove and handled like s**t.



No Time Toulouse said:


> Basically, it was a piece of ****; the only reason it has any collectability today rests solely in the hideous styling.


Wayne's World helped too.



No Time Toulouse said:


> This thing isn't even ugly enough to have that; it's more like the AMC Concord, if you are looking for an automotive analogy.


The AMC Concord wasn't even a runner up in the ugly contest compared to the Pacer. Now the Citroen 2CV, there's an ugly contest runner up to the Pacer!!!


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## Pitbull Pedal (Feb 19, 2018)

xxl said:


> "Up to date they have proven to hold tremendous wattage if you are in a hard sprint."
> 
> What does this mean, and where has this been proven?:
> 
> ...


Like I had said he was a good rider, but he couldn't ever keep up with the group for 100+km and then have a 1300W sprint at the end to win the race obviously!



tomato coupe said:


> The video was edited, but your statement is pretty clear. If you don't want a reporter to include BS in their story, don't feed them BS in the interview.
> 
> The clip in the video showing how much quicker your pedals are is more BS. Your partner makes his initial downward stroke well after you do so, of course, he clips in later.
> 
> ...


In the interview, like I have said over and over, she had just taken bits and pieces of what I had said and edited down to what you saw. I had no hand in reviewing anything before it was released.

As far as the video goes with the watts that was just one video. Here was the older video we made a while back https://youtu.be/vNFKi8yif2w we are both out of our saddles hitting it hard after about a 15mi warm up. Not quite as many watts but oh well.



No Time Toulouse said:


> The problem with the Pacer wasn't that it was 'ahead of it's time', it was just ugly, poorly designed, and poorly built. Basically, it was a piece of ****; the only reason it has any collectability today rests solely in the hideous styling. This thing isn't even ugly enough to have that; it's more like the AMC Concord, if you are looking for an automotive analogy.
> 
> What he has here is a design that is, at best 30 years too late to be marketable, which takes the main elements from a design of roughly that period, complicates it, makes it more expensive and heavier.
> 
> ...


Unfortunately coming from my end I am not able to respond in any way like I would normally, I must keep everything as professional as I can even though this is not my normal profession. What you say is your opinion and it could be the same with 1,000 other people but there are 300,000,000+ people in the US. If I could just get a few of them, a very small amount, I would of achieved everything that I have tried. I haven't discovered the cure for cancer, it is just a bike pedal.




shermes said:


> My post wasn't a directed at Roger, it was directed towards Mike(Pitbull) and the fact that a guy who want's to "take the sport of cycling to the next level with his invention" doesn't come across as someone who is very knowledgeable about cycling. I don't know Roger but just from the video I'm going guess he's not the kind of person who sit's around worrying about what some random person on the internet might have said about him. I would not post anything on the internet I would't be willing to say to them face to face and take whatever consequences that go with it. I hope Mike comes up with a pedal that sells successfully if that's what he wants to do but he may want to humble himself a bit, as tlg pointed out Mike is the one who made the assertion of what a cyclist is.


I am totally humbled each day and I try to do the best I can for everyone possible. Like I had said this is just a bike pedal, it works just like I have said it works. If I go ahead and make the pedal in titanium it would be the fastest and lightest pedal, I do believe.



ogre said:


> Roger may only be hitting about 15 mph there, so it may actually be a 6:40 century.


These numbers just don't mean that much to me, every rider is different and will be able to ride at different levels. As long as you are doing your best nobody can ask for better than that.



Lombard said:


> The Pacer wasn't ugly, it was FUGLY!!! A real road toad with a face even a mother could hate. But as I said, look how many ugly bubble looking SUV's we have on the roads now. Was the Pacer really that much uglier?
> 
> The original design of the Pacer wasn't a bad concept. What doomed the Pacer was the bean counters at AMC. It originally was to get its own chassis. Instead, in order to cut costs, the pregnant body was paired with the Gremlin chassis. The result was a car that drove and handled like s**t.
> 
> ...


Thanks for the update on the pacer. Knowledge is power.


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## Backdash (Jan 26, 2016)

Pitbull Pedal said:


> Knowledge is power.


If you want an honest, knowledgeable and unbiased review of these pedals send a pair to DC Rainmaker or GPLama or both of them.

go for it...


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## Pitbull Pedal (Feb 19, 2018)

https://gearjunkie.com/pitbull-clipless-road-cycling-pedals-lightweight-review
We had sent the original pedal to Gear Junkie for a full review. I think that the review came out ok but since then we have improved the final product. Thanks for the suggestion.


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## tlg (May 11, 2011)

tomato coupe said:


> Power is not the issue. Torque/force is what will cause you to unclip prematurely. Sitting and spinning at high cadence, like your friend does in the video, doesn't generate maximum torque/force on the pedal.


OMG that was beat to death when he first came here promoting his pedal. In fact, that's exactly why he made the video of Roger 'sprinting'.... to prove how secure the pedals are. He doesn't comprehend that sprinting involves torque, standing, the bike rocking side to side. To date, we've never seen someone sprinting in those pedals. 



Pitbull Pedal said:


> In the interview, like I have said over and over, she had just taken bits and pieces of what I had said and edited down to what you saw. I had no hand in reviewing anything before it was released.


You just don't get it. It doesn't matter how long the interview was. Why are you even talking about Crit racing?  They didn't dub in those words. You were bragging about it.


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## No Time Toulouse (Sep 7, 2016)

ogre said:


> ....


Ahh say-ahh say, that boys about as sharp as a' spoon!


----------



## xxl (Mar 19, 2002)

Pitbull Pedal said:


> Like I had said he was a good rider, but he couldn't ever keep up with the group for 100+km and then have a 1300W sprint at the end to win the race obviously!....



But in your video, he says his "Garmin shows 1300W." Is his device calibrated properly, that he reports levels of wattage usually not seen outside the peleton??

You also said this: "Up to date they have proven to hold tremendous wattage if you are in a hard sprint."

Where is this proof (and what does it mean for a pedal to "hold tremendous wattage," anyway)?


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## Finx (Oct 19, 2017)

Backdash said:


> If you want an honest, knowledgeable and unbiased review of these pedals send a pair to DC Rainmaker or GPLama or both of them.
> 
> go for it...


I doubt either of them would touch this. They are both focused on tech stuff (electronics) and GPLama is mostly focused on indoor training tech (and some power meters).


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## tlg (May 11, 2011)

xxl said:


> But in your video, he says his "Garmin shows 1300W." Is his device calibrated properly, that he reports levels of wattage usually not seen outside the peleton??
> 
> You also said this: "Up to date they have proven to hold tremendous wattage if you are in a hard sprint."
> 
> Where is this proof (and what does it mean for a pedal to "hold tremendous wattage," anyway)?


Ha. You don' need no stink'n proof! This was beat to death in the other Pitbull thread. 1300W while seated  I asked for Roger's GPS data. It was never provided.

I'd bet it looks like this, which is erroneous data.


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## Pitbull Pedal (Feb 19, 2018)

tlg said:


> .


https://youtu.be/vNFKi8yif2w maybe you don't remember seeing this video from quite a while ago but here is the 2 of us sprinting, out of the saddle, extremely hard. He was in front because he is a better sprinter.

Just lighten up, this is just for fun.



xxl said:


> .?


I don't know any other way to answer other than with the videos that I have shown as proof. As far as we know the Garmin is calibrated correctly. I just do not understand with all of the different video shown that some people think that I am trying to deceive them. They work exactly the same as in the un-edited videos and I cannot say anymore than that.




tlg said:


> .












Just looking at a couple of track sprint examples here is just one that came up at the top. It is another thing in the tour to ride 100+mi and still have a 13 or 14 hundred watt sprint the last 500 yards. This is just my opinion.


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## Backdash (Jan 26, 2016)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mHxuCSa2upg

its ~8 min but all you need to see regarding what 1300 watts looks like is in the first minute


----------



## tlg (May 11, 2011)

Pitbull Pedal said:


> https://youtu.be/vNFKi8yif2w maybe you don't remember seeing this video from quite a while ago but here is the 2 of us sprinting, out of the saddle, extremely hard. He was in front because he is a better sprinter.


lmfao. Everyone remembers that video. That is not sprinting. That is standing while pedaling. And he wasn't generating 1300w. 



> Just lighten up, this is just for fun.


No it's not. You're doing it for profit. And you're trying to get people to invest in your product. Don't B.S. us.




> I don't know any other way to answer other than with the videos that I have shown as proof.


WTF? Do you not read? * Provide the GPS data!*





> Just looking at a couple of track sprint examples here is just one that came up at the top. It is another thing in the tour to ride 100+mi and still have a 13 or 14 hundred watt sprint the last 500 yards. This is just my opinion.


What in the world are you trying to prove? No one is doubting world class track sprinters can generate that wattage. Get one to test your pedals.


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## den bakker (Nov 13, 2004)




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## Pitbull Pedal (Feb 19, 2018)

tlg said:


> lmfao. Everyone remembers that video. That is not sprinting. That is standing while pedaling. And he wasn't generating 1300w.
> 
> No it's not. You're doing it for profit. And you're trying to get people to invest in your product. Don't B.S. us.
> 
> ...


In my opinion that is we were sprinting. You may not be able to see perfectly clear in the video but we are hauling ass. If you watch the video to the end you can see on his Garmin that on that particular day his max wattage was 1185. I think I'm going to try and get a gentleman from Chainwheel drive (who races around the country) to help me make a video and try and put this all to rest.

This is for fun and if we are able to make a little bit of money out of it that would be great. It is not B.S at all. Like I had said we haven't come up with the cure for cancer we are just playing around with a bike pedal.







den bakker said:


>


Thanks!


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## tlg (May 11, 2011)

Pitbull Pedal said:


> In my opinion that is we were sprinting. You may not be able to see perfectly clear in the video but we are hauling ass. If you watch the video to the end you can see on his Garmin that on that particular day his max wattage was 1185.


Oh the video is clear. That's not sprinting. Which was repeatedly pointed out to you in your other thread. Your opinion is meaningless.

What is displayed on the Garmin Screen is irrelevant if it's a spike from erroneous data. You've been asked many times to provide the GPS data. Yet you won't. 





> This is for fun and if we are able to make a little bit of money out of it that would be great. It is not B.S at all.


Absolute B.S. You're starting a Kickstarter 
* "We are looking for a total investment of $50,000 to procure materials, have the pedals built overseas and finalize an injection molding system to build the cleats in Safety Harbor." *

Make sure you tell your investors... it's just for fun.


----------



## No Time Toulouse (Sep 7, 2016)




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## QuiQuaeQuod (Jan 24, 2003)

tlg said:


> Absolute B.S. You're starting a Kickstarter
> * "We are looking for a total investment of $50,000 to procure materials, have the pedals built overseas and finalize an injection molding system to build the cleats in Safety Harbor." *
> 
> Make sure you tell your investors... it's just for fun.



Revenue is a terrible way of valuing a company, but often used for new companies that are ramping up, so let's see how that would work out. Rough assumptions follow.

Speedplay has revenue of around 11-12 million a year. Best guess given private ownership, from web numbers I could dig up. Good comp, given a "niche" pedal without OEM spec (that I have ever seen).

Even assuming a good design, a reasonable goal would be to have 1/10 the sales (and growing) of Speedplay after 5 years of hitting the market. Speedplay has been around almost 30 years, fyi.

So, one might reasonably assess the highest potential for such a one product company to be ~1 million a year in the short term. Such a company AT THAT TIME might be valued at $500,000 (1/2 revenue, if the assumption is steady sales with little upside going forward) to $2 million (2x revenue) assuming growth potential that is significant but not explosive.

That's not much in the world of venture capital. Peanuts, really, for the upside over 5 years.

50k might get some things built. But if you want enough capital to last 5 years, $500k seems more like the number for production, shipping, billing, employees as things grow, marketing, sales (because to get enough shops to try them much less stock them will take shoe leather), etc. $500k should cover the first couple of years, then revenue from growing sales would have to kick in.

A real investor might take a shot at such a product if they see potential, but there is no way they would pony up without a huge equity stake, given the limited upside for growth and the relatively low maximum revenue of a pedal that will NEVER see OEM spec. 

That is for a BEST CASE scenario, a pedal that works and cyclists like. 

There are so many other ways to invest capital for VCs, I just can't see any significant investment coming to this product. Maybe, maybe, with the pitch of "1 million in sales after 5 years with a maximum upside of 10x beyond that". Probably not, that's a long time frame for return on an existing product that supposedly won't need more R&D time/money.

So kickstarter, where foolish money goes to die, is likely the best option.


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## Pitbull Pedal (Feb 19, 2018)

tlg said:


> Oh the video is clear. That's not sprinting. Which was repeatedly pointed out to you in your other thread. Your opinion is meaningless.
> 
> What is displayed on the Garmin Screen is irrelevant if it's a spike from erroneous data. You've been asked many times to provide the GPS data. Yet you won't.
> 
> ...


I will never be able to convince you or a few others that the glass is half full. Everything that I have stated is true to the best of my knowledge. I cannot provide that GPS data because its from so long ago.

As far as the B.S. it is for fun. If I make a few bucks along the way it is a plus.



QuiQuaeQuod said:


> Revenue is a terrible way of valuing a company, but often used for new companies that are ramping up, so let's see how that would work out. Rough assumptions follow.
> 
> Speedplay has revenue of around 11-12 million a year. Best guess given private ownership, from web numbers I could dig up. Good comp, given a "niche" pedal without OEM spec (that I have ever seen).
> 
> ...


Firstly thank you for taking the time to write out such a thorough post. We have just lowered the cost again as my partner and I are moving ahead with the mold on our end. This is going to lower the kickstarter goal. Like I have said I am not trying to get rich off of this, I am just having some fun along the way. As far as an investor goes, what I'm asking for is peanuts. It is simply a roll of the dice to some people and a write off to others. All I know is that we are trying, and we know that we have a good product. If we simply make them out of titanium we would be the lightest and fastest pedal on the market, I do believe.

Thanks


----------



## tlg (May 11, 2011)

Pitbull Pedal said:


> I will never be able to convince you or a few others that the glass is half full. Everything that I have stated is true to the best of my knowledge. I cannot provide that GPS data because its from so long ago.


That's not true. Did Roger quit riding? Does he not own or have access to a GPS unit?

And of course... you could get someone else to actually sprint using your pedals.

Just more B.S.


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## QuiQuaeQuod (Jan 24, 2003)

Pitbull Pedal said:


> It is simply a roll of the dice to some people and a write off to others.


That's not how people with capital to venture think. 

VCs are willing to write off a lot of failures (that's part of the game) but they NEVER go into a deal with the idea that it will fail so they get the write off. They try very hard to make money on every deal, not lower their taxable income for a year. 

The amount doesn't matter, peanuts or "real" money. They generally don't think in terms of $X, rather they think in terms of ten or twentyfold returns. They brag about seeing opportunity, taking the risk, and hitting the grand slam. That's what it's about.


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## cxwrench (Nov 9, 2004)

Pitbull Pedal said:


> I will never be able to convince you or a few others that the glass is half full. Everything that I have stated is true to the best of my knowledge. I cannot provide that GPS data because its from so long ago.
> 
> As far as the B.S. it is for fun. If I make a few bucks along the way it is a plus.
> 
> ...


I'm wondering why you think your pedal is 'fast'. Is this still describing clipping in to the pedal? Or something else? Either way it's not something I'd use to describe a pedal.


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## Lombard (May 8, 2014)

Pitbull Pedal said:


> I will never be able to convince you or a few others that the glass is half full.


Maybe you just need a smaller glass.


----------



## pmf (Feb 23, 2004)

Quit feeding the troll.


----------



## tlg (May 11, 2011)

pmf said:


> Quit feeding the troll.


He's not a troll. He's a real person. Using his real name. Pitching a product he's planning to manufacture and sell to the public. 
Let him keep pitching his nonsense. It will be here for eternity for anyone interested in buying or investing in his business. It's scores quite high on google results.


----------



## pmf (Feb 23, 2004)

tlg said:


> He's not a troll. He's a real person. Using his real name. Pitching a product he's planning to manufacture and sell to the public.
> Let him keep pitching his nonsense. It will be here for eternity for anyone interested in buying or investing in his business. It's scores quite high on google results.


So how many times do we need to tell someone who has invented a pedal that is basically a spindle with a pedal as a cleat that its a ridiculous idea/product? Let it sink into oblivion for eternity.


----------



## Pitbull Pedal (Feb 19, 2018)

tlg said:


> That's not true. Did Roger quit riding? Does he not own or have access to a GPS unit?
> 
> And of course... you could get someone else to actually sprint using your pedals.
> 
> Just more B.S.


Roger hasn't quit riding but he has moved to a new city and doesn't ride where we do anymore. As far as I know he does still have his Garmin. I could get someone else to use my pedals, except the other people that I ride with do not have a Garmin.




QuiQuaeQuod said:


> That's not how people with capital to venture think.
> 
> VCs are willing to write off a lot of failures (that's part of the game) but they NEVER go into a deal with the idea that it will fail so they get the write off. They try very hard to make money on every deal, not lower their taxable income for a year.
> 
> The amount doesn't matter, peanuts or "real" money. They generally don't think in terms of $X, rather they think in terms of ten or twentyfold returns. They brag about seeing opportunity, taking the risk, and hitting the grand slam. That's what it's about.


I appreciate that you must do well in business yourself and must be very successful. With Frank and I supplying the mold now, that is letting us lower our goal/investment amount by $10,000. So now a person with money to invest would receive for only $40k a 3rd of the company and all it entails. As of right now the company is not worth anything. That is where a person would need to look at the item that we are representing and think that there was money to be made. If the pedal works as good as I'm saying (which it does), what could it be actually be worth? Like I had said, if we just make it from titanium also we believe that it could be the lightest and fastest pedal on the market. Just my opinion.

Thanks for everything.



cxwrench said:


> I'm wondering why you think your pedal is 'fast'. Is this still describing clipping in to the pedal? Or something else? Either way it's not something I'd use to describe a pedal.


I appreciate your thought, we were just trying to come up with some kind of honest catch phrase, and we do believe it does engage faster than any other pedal.




Lombard said:


> Maybe you just need a smaller glass.


This flew past me.




pmf said:


> Quit feeding the troll.


I'm not trolling, I'm just trying to have fun and enjoy speaking with everyone.




tlg said:


> He's not a troll. He's a real person. Using his real name. Pitching a product he's planning to manufacture and sell to the public.
> Let him keep pitching his nonsense. It will be here for eternity for anyone interested in buying or investing in his business. It's scores quite high on google results.


If that is true, I appreciate everyone talking about it as I had no idea that this would do anything outside of the forum. Remember, I'm old.




pmf said:


> So how many times do we need to tell someone who has invented a pedal that is basically a spindle with a pedal as a cleat that its a ridiculous idea/product? Let it sink into oblivion for eternity.


I appreciate your optimism.


----------



## tlg (May 11, 2011)

Pitbull Pedal said:


> Roger hasn't quit riding but he has moved to a new city and doesn't ride where we do anymore. As far as I know he does still have his Garmin. I could get someone else to use my pedals, except the other people that I ride with do not have a Garmin.


You know nobody with a Garmin/GPS... OMG seriously? And you're creating a pedal that's gonna save people seconds in a Crit. 
It's all making sense now.

You're still just making up B.S. excuses. You could go to your LBS and ask for some names of local racers to put your pedal to the test.




> If that is true, I appreciate everyone talking about it as I had no idea that this would do anything outside of the forum. Remember, I'm old.


Beware. You are on notice. You're developing a product which you've done no real world testing. Many people have pointed out potential flaws. Yet you refuse to test your product. If someone were to get hurt using your pedal, you will have no defense against lawsuits. I'm not even sure liability insurance will protect you. (You have that right) A personal injury attorney reading this forum will destroy you in court.

It's all fun and games to a couple old bucks... until they get sued.


----------



## QuiQuaeQuod (Jan 24, 2003)

Pitbull Pedal said:


> So now a person with money to invest would receive for only $40k a 3rd of the company and all it entails. As of right now the company is not worth anything.


As of now, you are saying the company is worth $120k. That's what your equity offer assumes.

You are woefully undercapitalized to take a real shot at this. If everything broke just right and you started making some sales after a year, you MIGHT be able to make a go of it with an additional 100k beyond the 40k.

If I thought your design was a good one, which I don't, I would not invest a dime unless you had 200k beyond pedal design and tooling, minimum. And also had a marketing plan. And a plan to scale the company as it grew. And a few other things. Like could you answer questions like these:

Do you know what QBP is? Do you know how to get a product carried by QBP?

Starting a business is not a hobby, unless your hobby is losing money and time.


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## QuiQuaeQuod (Jan 24, 2003)

tlg said:


> ...you will have no defense against lawsuits.


I am not a lawyer and all, but the phrase "gross negligence" comes to mind.


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## tlg (May 11, 2011)

QuiQuaeQuod said:


> I am not a lawyer and all, but the phrase "gross negligence" comes to mind.


Negligence, Gross Negligence, Willful Misconduct, Recklessness. Yea lots of potential issues depending on how 'ignorant' a few old bucks want to pretend to be. 

Insurance policies normally cover negligence but may not always cover acts of gross negligence.  

It's best to try and not be too 'gross' in your negligence. :thumbsup:


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## No Time Toulouse (Sep 7, 2016)

tlg said:


> ..... It's scores quite high on google results.


Oh, well then THAT makes ALLLLLL the difference!


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## phoenixsun (Oct 16, 2011)

Did you guys ever read the story of speedplay? 

It is a long road to get road cycling to adopt anything, look at disc brakes.
But the upside could be big. Good luck!


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## Lombard (May 8, 2014)

Pitbull Pedal said:


> Remember, I'm old.


Don't play the age card here. Lots of older guys are on this forum. You won't get far with that.


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## tlg (May 11, 2011)

No Time Toulouse said:


> Oh, well then THAT makes ALLLLLL the difference!


 Difference in what?

It means the information in this thread will be easy to find for anyone interested in investing in his product. Nothing in this (or the other) thread is going to make investors want to throw money at him.


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## aclinjury (Sep 12, 2011)

i would be interested in testing out your pedals in the mtb world use if i could get a pair for free to demo! If the cleats last as good as you say, then you may have something for the mtb market! anyone who has mtb will tell you getting clipped in and out fast is always a nice thing


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## velodog (Sep 26, 2007)

aclinjury said:


> i would be interested in testing out your pedals in the mtb world use if i could get a pair for free to demo! If the cleats last as good as you say, then you may have something for the mtb market! anyone who has mtb will tell you getting clipped in and out fast is always a nice thing


How would these cleats be integrated into a mountain bike shoe?


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## tlg (May 11, 2011)

aclinjury said:


> i would be interested in testing out your pedals in the mtb world use if i could get a pair for free to demo! If the cleats last as good as you say, then you may have something for the mtb market! anyone who has mtb will tell you getting clipped in and out fast is always a nice thing


Walking is a good thing too. And mud shedding. Both of which those cleats would make MTB'ing near impossible.


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## Pitbull Pedal (Feb 19, 2018)

tlg said:


> You know nobody with a Garmin/GPS... OMG seriously? And you're creating a pedal that's gonna save people seconds in a Crit.
> It's all making sense now.
> 
> You're still just making up B.S. excuses. You could go to your LBS and ask for some names of local racers to put your pedal to the test.
> ...


That is correct that I don't know any other riders with a Garmin/GPS as I stopped riding with the group rides long ago when Roger moved. Earlier on this thread I believe that I said I had a rider from my LBS that was a sponsored rider and I'm going to try and get with him to make a short video. I'm sure nobody will believe it though.

As far as real world testing we have been riding with it for over 2 years. We had a write up with Gear Junkie, and also we had LOOK in France evaluate our pedal. We had nothing but good reports from them. These are all facts.

As far as right now if you have been keeping up, there are no pedals and we have not gone through all the insurance that we will need to get this to market. If this ever takes off we would be getting a lawyer to take care of all of our legal needs.




QuiQuaeQuod said:


> As of now, you are saying the company is worth $120k. That's what your equity offer assumes.
> 
> You are woefully undercapitalized to take a real shot at this. If everything broke just right and you started making some sales after a year, you MIGHT be able to make a go of it with an additional 100k beyond the 40k.
> 
> ...


I appreciate the information. I have been a business owner for 25 years. We are not anywhere near as far along as you are describing. Maybe whoever would be the investor would have knowledge that we could all use. We are just on the ground floor. But thank you for the info.




phoenixsun said:


> Did you guys ever read the story of speedplay?
> 
> It is a long road to get road cycling to adopt anything, look at disc brakes.
> But the upside could be big. Good luck!


Thank you for seeing the potential for success with this item. Anything small amount of income to us would be a success. We are not shooting for the moon.




Lombard said:


> Don't play the age card here. Lots of older guys are on this forum. You won't get far with that.


Thanks



tlg said:


> Difference in what?
> 
> It means the information in this thread will be easy to find for anyone interested in investing in his product. Nothing in this (or the other) thread is going to make investors want to throw money at him.


You never know, I don't have a fear of failing on our venture. I truly wouldn't even be doing this if the pedals did not work exactly how I have stated.




aclinjury said:


> i would be interested in testing out your pedals in the mtb world use if i could get a pair for free to demo! If the cleats last as good as you say, then you may have something for the mtb market! anyone who has mtb will tell you getting clipped in and out fast is always a nice thing


Thanks, if we are to get this started I would be more than happy to send out many pairs across the country as samples.


----------



## OldZaskar (Jul 1, 2009)

tig, I agree - while the 360-degree pedal (not one, two or four-sided) is ideal for mtn biking... that cleat/shoe is a deal breaker. 

A key reason we unclip on the trail is because the trail just got unridable for some reason - tree across the trail, spun out/slipped on roots, dabbed on a rock garden, etc. So now, the rider has got to walk (often run to keep the guys behind from having to stop) - on that rocky, rooty, technical trail with this snow shovel under the shoe...










... yeah, that aint happening


----------



## QuiQuaeQuod (Jan 24, 2003)

Pitbull Pedal said:


> I appreciate the information. I have been a business owner for 25 years. We are not anywhere near as far along as you are describing. Maybe whoever would be the investor would have knowledge that we could all use.



VCs will help you improve your plan, if they think you have a shot.

They will NOT help you develop a plan, because if you don't have plans, you are clearly not thinking about things enough to be worth taking a risk on. They evaluate the product, but they also evaluation YOU. You (anyone) is a big potential risk factor.


----------



## tomato coupe (Nov 8, 2009)

QuiQuaeQuod said:


> VCs will help you improve your plan, if they think you have a shot.
> 
> They will NOT help you develop a plan, because if you don't have plans, you are clearly not thinking about things enough to be worth taking a risk on. They evaluate the product, but they also evaluation YOU. You (anyone) is a big potential risk factor.


I don't think this is anything a venture capitalist would be interested in, mainly because it is too small. VCs are typically looking for $1M-$10M minimum investment. $50k is more in the realm of angel investors.

Regardless, you are absolutely correct that "YOU" is a huge part of the evaluation. I think this is where the OP has a problem -- he keeps stating that this venture is "just for fun" and he doesn't seem willing to put much skin in the game. Those likely will be red flags for any potential investor.


----------



## Pitbull Pedal (Feb 19, 2018)

OldZaskar said:


> tig, I agree - while the 360-degree pedal (not one, two or four-sided) is ideal for mtn biking... that cleat/shoe is a deal breaker.
> 
> A key reason we unclip on the trail is because the trail just got unridable for some reason - tree across the trail, spun out/slipped on roots, dabbed on a rock garden, etc. So now, the rider has got to walk (often run to keep the guys behind from having to stop) - on that rocky, rooty, technical trail with this snow shovel under the shoe...
> 
> ...


Well that would probably take that group of riders away.




QuiQuaeQuod said:


> VCs will help you improve your plan, if they think you have a shot.
> 
> They will NOT help you develop a plan, because if you don't have plans, you are clearly not thinking about things enough to be worth taking a risk on. They evaluate the product, but they also evaluation YOU. You (anyone) is a big potential risk factor.


Thanks




tomato coupe said:


> I don't think this is anything a venture capitalist would be interested in, mainly because it is too small. VCs are typically looking for $1M-$10M minimum investment. $50k is more in the realm of angel investors.
> 
> Regardless, you are absolutely correct that "YOU" is a huge part of the evaluation. I think this is where the OP has a problem -- he keeps stating that this venture is "just for fun" and he doesn't seem willing to put much skin in the game. Those likely will be red flags for any potential investor.


We just put $10k into a mold for the cleat a few days ago. I guess that is a little bit of skin.


----------



## No Time Toulouse (Sep 7, 2016)

phoenixsun said:


> Did you guys ever read the story of speedplay?.................


I've never understood why Speedplay is even profitable. Their cleats are vulnerable and expensive, and about the only advantage I can see is that the actual pedal is so small that it probably deters theft......but so do Crank Brothers and SPD pedals...


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## Oxtox (Aug 16, 2006)

lot of chatter about the cleat/pedal, but what's the status of that heinous-looking shoe that goes with them...?


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## rudge66 (Apr 1, 2019)

No Time Toulouse said:


> I've never understood why Speedplay is even profitable. Their cleats are vulnerable and expensive, and about the only advantage I can see is that the actual pedal is so small that it probably deters theft......but so do Crank Brothers and SPD pedals...



Yes Brother let us all encourage a New Way.
Let us all pray for our members success and participate in its perfection.


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## rudge66 (Apr 1, 2019)

Let the man make his pedal .


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## cxwrench (Nov 9, 2004)

rudge66 said:


> Yes Brother let us all encourage a New Way.
> Let us all pray for our members success and participate in its perfection.


What the hell?


----------



## Lombard (May 8, 2014)

cxwrench said:


> What the hell?


I think he's a monk.


----------



## No Time Toulouse (Sep 7, 2016)

rudge66 said:


> Let the man make his pedal .


Most certainly. After all, it's the capitalist way; any idiot can plop all his assets down on an ill-advised venture, lose it all, declare bankruptcy, then do it all over again....

But, from what I see here is a venture which has exhausted any industry interest in the product, and is trying to get traction by flooding the net with balderdash in order to hook suckers on their Kickstarter account. In 5 years, this idea will be as dead as a doornail, any units produced will have been sold as scrap, and all the investors will have lost everything. Stuff like this happens every day, especially in the cycling accessory market.

How many oddball saddles, strangely-shaped chainrings, or bizarre derailleurs have we seen over the last 30 years? This is nothing different, just more entertaining than most. Whereas, say, the guy who makes/made the Moon saddle just slips into obscurity, here we have a guy who is making a public spectacle of his disaster-in-waiting, for all of us to watch. I'm gonna make some popcorn! Hang on, it's going to be a bumpy ride......


----------



## cxwrench (Nov 9, 2004)

rudge66 said:


> Let the man make his pedal .


The thing is he came here, and has come back, for advice and opinions. He's received both in spades. And he still keeps coming back for more. Many here are trying to save him from making very expensive mistakes, but if he wants to go ahead, by all means do so. Just come back one more time and tell us how many $$$ he lost. Would you feel bad if we instead encouraged him and then he lost all the money he put into it?


----------



## Pitbull Pedal (Feb 19, 2018)

No Time Toulouse said:


> I've never understood why Speedplay is even profitable. Their cleats are vulnerable and expensive, and about the only advantage I can see is that the actual pedal is so small that it probably deters theft......but so do Crank Brothers and SPD pedals...


Actually our pedal being a 360 degree round shaft on a bearing is virtually impossible to ride without the matching cleat.




Oxtox said:


> lot of chatter about the cleat/pedal, but what's the status of that heinous-looking shoe that goes with them...?


Still in design




rudge66 said:


> Yes Brother let us all encourage a New Way.
> Let us all pray for our members success and participate in its perfection.


Thanks, we have actually used some peoples ideas in the final design




No Time Toulouse said:


> Most certainly. After all, it's the capitalist way; any idiot can plop all his assets down on an ill-advised venture, lose it all, declare bankruptcy, then do it all over again....
> 
> But, from what I see here is a venture which has exhausted any industry interest in the product, and is trying to get traction by flooding the net with balderdash in order to hook suckers on their Kickstarter account. In 5 years, this idea will be as dead as a doornail, any units produced will have been sold as scrap, and all the investors will have lost everything. Stuff like this happens every day, especially in the cycling accessory market.
> 
> How many oddball saddles, strangely-shaped chainrings, or bizarre derailleurs have we seen over the last 30 years? This is nothing different, just more entertaining than most. Whereas, say, the guy who makes/made the Moon saddle just slips into obscurity, here we have a guy who is making a public spectacle of his disaster-in-waiting, for all of us to watch. I'm gonna make some popcorn! Hang on, it's going to be a bumpy ride......


Just like everyone you have mentioned above, at least they gave things a shot. They will not be thinking their entire life "I should of given it a chance". This will not break or make my partner and I in any way. We truly are just doing this as it is fun and exciting to do. I think that when we get to the final pricing of the pedals and how good they actually work, that people will be amazed. At least I hope.




cxwrench said:


> The thing is he came here, and has come back, for advice and opinions. He's received both in spades. And he still keeps coming back for more. Many here are trying to save him from making very expensive mistakes, but if he wants to go ahead, by all means do so. Just come back one more time and tell us how many $$$ he lost. Would you feel bad if we instead encouraged him and then he lost all the money he put into it?


If I lose I lose, if I make a little bit I make a little bit. I can only tell you that the PB pedal system is coming as the mold is about 1/3rd completed and we will be ordering our sample pedal from over seas this week. We plan on giving many many sets of pedals to people and bike clubs all over the country for free just to get their input on the system. If we break even great, if we make a little bit it would be fantastic, and if we lose 100% oh well we had a great time with the project.


----------



## tlg (May 11, 2011)

Pitbull Pedal said:


> If I lose I lose, if I make a little bit I make a little bit.


So on your Kickstarter where you're asking people for $50,000 why don't you advertise "If I lose I lose"? Will that be printed on the free T-shirt and sticker? 


Pitbull Bike Pedal Wicked Fastest Road Bike Pedals and Clip System
*Kickstarter Support Levels*
New! Donate Now to Help Us Reach our $50K Goal and Get a Free T-Shirt and Sticker as Our Gift!
Shirts and Stickers Should Be Shipping No Later Than Mid-September


Damn you got a pretty sh!tty attitude with other peoples money.


----------



## Pitbull Pedal (Feb 19, 2018)

tlg said:


> So on your Kickstarter where you're asking people for $50,000 why don't you advertise "If I lose I lose"? Will that be printed on the free T-shirt and sticker?
> 
> 
> Pitbull Bike Pedal Wicked Fastest Road Bike Pedals and Clip System
> ...


OMG we just threw 10k in for our fabrication of the mold. We have lowered the kickstarter amount down to 40k. Obviously we are trying to succeed just like any new start up would be. Lighten up!


----------



## tlg (May 11, 2011)

Pitbull Pedal said:


> OMG we just threw 10k in for our fabrication of the mold. We have lowered the kickstarter amount down to 40k.


Who cares how much you threw in. You are asking OTHER people for money, that YOU don't care if you lose. Yet you're not clear about that on your Kickstarter. 

That's sh!tty. You should be open with your investors that you don't care if you lose their money.

FYI: Kickstarter rules.

Projects must be honest and clearly presented.
Our community is built on trust and communication. Projects can’t mislead people or misrepresent facts, and *creators should be candid about what they plan to accomplish.*


Are you candid about not caring if you lose?


----------



## pmf (Feb 23, 2004)

If you've got nothing left to say, and Pitbull obviously doesn't really care about anyone here's advice anyway, why bother to continue participating in this conversation?


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## Pitbull Pedal (Feb 19, 2018)

tlg said:


> Who cares how much you threw in. You are asking OTHER people for money, that YOU don't care if you lose. Yet you're not clear about that on your Kickstarter.
> 
> That's sh!tty. You should be open with your investors that you don't care if you lose their money.
> 
> ...


Obviously we do care about losing, especially if someone was willing to come on board as an investor. Nobody sets out intending to fail. I would hope the investor that was to come on board that it would not be their last 40K. The person that I would be hoping to come on board, this would be a trivial amount of money to them. We are getting way off track and turning this into a business discussion. Like I had said the pedal will be coming and we will be shipping out many pairs for free.




pmf said:


> If you've got nothing left to say, and Pitbull obviously doesn't really care about anyone here's advice anyway, why bother to continue participating in this conversation?


We do care as we had mentioned to the person above you. I can only tell you that the pedal does work exactly the way we are describing it and if you are not a fan of the design then you obviously wouldn't be a buyer of the pedal.


----------



## tomato coupe (Nov 8, 2009)

Pitbull Pedal said:


> Actually our pedal being a 360 degree round shaft on a bearing is virtually impossible to ride without the matching cleat.


You realize that's a negative, yes?



Pitbull Pedal said:


> OMG we just threw 10k in for our fabrication of the mold. We have lowered the kickstarter amount down to 40k. Obviously we are trying to succeed just like any new start up would be. Lighten up!


I'm guessing that most of that $10k is "shop time" in your partner's machine shop, not actual out-of-pocket money? So, you still don't really have a lot of skin in the game.



Pitbull Pedal said:


> Obviously we do care about losing, especially if someone was willing to come on board as an investor. Nobody sets out intending to fail. I would hope the investor that was to come on board that it would not be their last 40K. The person that I would be hoping to come on board, this would be a trivial amount of money to them.


In nearly every post, you've stated "this is just two old guys trying to have some fun" or something similar. The only indication that you are concerned about losing money comes from the fact that you seem extremely reluctant to invest any money of your own.



> We are getting way off track and turning this into a business discussion.


You turned it into a business discussion in the first paragraph of your first post.


----------



## Pitbull Pedal (Feb 19, 2018)

tomato coupe said:


> You realize that's a negative, yes?
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Yes, it is just a slip up in my wording. But your foot literally rides off of it without the corresponding cleat.

OMG however you want to word it you can word it. Everyone's time is valuable. But all of the other components have to be purchased.

You must of missed some of my last post. We have invested a lot of money through trial and error development and getting the patent. Now we are moving forward with the mold.

I did not realize that it would get to this point, I figured that we would be talking more about the pedal. It has just drifted off to where we are now.


----------



## tlg (May 11, 2011)

Pitbull Pedal said:


> Obviously we do care about losing


Obviously? 



> We truly are just doing this as it is fun and exciting to do.





> If I lose I lose





> if we lose 100% oh well we had a great time with the project





> As far as the B.S. it is for fun. If I make a few bucks along the way it is a plus.





> Like I have said I am not trying to get rich off of this, I am just having some fun along the way.





> As far as an investor goes, what I'm asking for is peanuts. It is simply a roll of the dice to some people and a write off to others


No, it is not obvious that you care about losing. What is obvious is you aren't being honest with Kickstarter.


----------



## tomato coupe (Nov 8, 2009)

Pitbull Pedal said:


> Yes, it is just a slip up in my wording. But your foot literally rides off of it without the corresponding cleat.


Yes, and that's a negative. 



> OMG however you want to word it you can word it. Everyone's time is valuable. But all of the other components have to be purchased. You must of missed some of my last post. We have invested a lot of money through trial and error development and getting the patent. Now we are moving forward with the mold.


I don't see a whole lot of out-of-pocket expense other that what was spent to get a patent. The cost of developing a small project like this is quite low if you have your own machine shop. Stainless steel round stock, aluminum, and bearings are not very expensive.



> I did not realize that it would get to this point, I figured that we would be talking more about the pedal. It has just drifted off to where we are now.


That's probably because several people had legitimate concerns about the pedals, and you addressed those concerns in a way that indicated a lack of experience and understanding. From my perspective, it's clear you are so firmly convinced these pedals are perfect, that you are incapable of viewing their strengths and weaknesses objectively.


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## Pitbull Pedal (Feb 19, 2018)

tlg said:


> Obviously?
> 
> No, it is not obvious that you care about losing. What is obvious is you aren't being honest with Kickstarter.


Thanks for thinking this through so well. If you have interpreted it this way I'm sorry that I have lead you to believe that. I can promise you that on my end everything is legit, I'm just excited to see what happens with this. If anything.




tomato coupe said:


> Yes, and that's a negative.
> 
> I don't see a whole lot of out-of-pocket expense other that what was spent to get a patent. The cost of developing a small project like this is quite low if you have your own machine shop. Stainless steel round stock, aluminum, and bearings are not very expensive.
> 
> That's probably because several people had legitimate concerns about the pedals, and you addressed those concerns in a way that indicated a lack of experience and understanding. From my perspective, it's clear you are so firmly convinced these pedals are perfect, that you are incapable of viewing their strengths and weaknesses objectively.



We have listened to everything and even made some suggested changes that we have gotten from people here. I cannot help that I'm fortunate enough to have a partner that is a machinist and owns his own small shop.

As far as the strengths and weaknesses of the pedal we have gone through so many different prototypes to end up with the one that we are now talking about. Some of the original designs were absolutely ridiculous now that we look back. But the simplicity of the design now, being able to easily disassemble and rebuild the pedal yourself, and having molded cleats should allow us to be highly competitive in pricing.


----------



## tomato coupe (Nov 8, 2009)

Pitbull Pedal said:


> But the simplicity of the design now, being able to easily disassemble and rebuild the pedal yourself ...


That's really not much of a selling point. Your targeted customer is a beginner that has trouble clipping into other types of pedals. Rebuilding the pedals is likely not even on their radar, as bearing lifetime is effectively infinite for them.



> ... and having molded cleats should allow us to be highly competitive in pricing.


Whether you like it or not, you are competing with easy-entry, two-sided SPD (and similar) pedals. They are produced in huge volume and can be purchased new for less than $35. Are your prices going to be competitive with that?


----------



## asgelle (Apr 21, 2003)

Deleted. Sorry, I'm three weeks too late.


----------



## Oxtox (Aug 16, 2006)

Pitbull Pedal said:


> But the simplicity of the design now, being able to easily disassemble and rebuild the pedal yourself, and having molded cleats should allow us to be highly competitive in pricing.


having used various Shimano and Look pedals for multiple tens of thousands of miles, I've never had to 'rebuild' any of them.

just bought some Look Keo Carbon IIs online for $58.


----------



## Lombard (May 8, 2014)

tomato coupe said:


> Whether you like it or not, you are competing with easy-entry, two-sided SPD (and similar) pedals. They are produced in huge volume and can be purchased new for less than $35. Are your prices going to be competitive with that?


The Shimano SPD M520s can be had for about $30:

https://www.merlincycles.com/en-us/...MIpu_g9bDp5AIVQdbACh1yWgzwEAYYASABEgKE0PD_BwE

They never break and if they do, at that price, who would bother to rebuild them?

Pitbull pedals will not appeal to the beginner, nor the minimalist buyer.


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## Pitbull Pedal (Feb 19, 2018)

tomato coupe said:


> That's really not much of a selling point. Your targeted customer is a beginner that has trouble clipping into other types of pedals. Rebuilding the pedals is likely not even on their radar, as bearing lifetime is effectively infinite for them.
> 
> 
> 
> Whether you like it or not, you are competing with easy-entry, two-sided SPD (and similar) pedals. They are produced in huge volume and can be purchased new for less than $35. Are your prices going to be competitive with that?


We should be competitive with that unless we produce some in titanium.




Oxtox said:


> having used various Shimano and Look pedals for multiple tens of thousands of miles, I've never had to 'rebuild' any of them.
> 
> just bought some Look Keo Carbon IIs online for $58.


Sounds good




Lombard said:


> The Shimano SPD M520s can be had for about $30:
> 
> https://www.merlincycles.com/en-us/...MIpu_g9bDp5AIVQdbACh1yWgzwEAYYASABEgKE0PD_BwE
> 
> ...


I appreciate your opinion.


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## Pitbull Pedal (Feb 19, 2018)

Well I think that at this point it is about time to break this thread off. We have covered many items and it is starting to get redundant. Everyone has their own opinion which is valuable to themselves. I have listened to all of them. Some of them have been able to guide us in a better way with the design, and some are just pessimistic and just don't want to give things a chance. The US is a big area and we are not trying to take over the market. Like I had said the mold is under way and if we do not hit our funding goal we will be ordering a minimum order ourselves. So the PB pedal is definitely coming. Once we have product in hand we will be shipping out many, many demo sets across the country. I'm sure quite a few will go to the people on this forum. Anyway lets see what happens. Everyone should be wishing us good luck as everything that we have stated is the truth to the extent of our knowledge. If any other new questions or thoughts come up I will be more than happy to respond.

Thanks for everyone's input.


----------



## tlg (May 11, 2011)

Lombard said:


> Pitbull pedals will not appeal to the beginner, nor the minimalist buyer.


But... but... but... what about the crit racer? 


I added a stopwatch to show how 'long' it takes to clip into SPD's. Dang.... looks so hard and takes so long.


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## Pitbull Pedal (Feb 19, 2018)

tlg said:


> But... but... but... what about the crit racer?
> 
> 
> I added a stopwatch to show how 'long' it takes to clip into SPD's. Dang.... looks so hard and takes so long.


Maybe you didn't notice but he does have a foot clipped in at the beginning where we started with both feet on the ground. We were under 2 seconds.


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## tlg (May 11, 2011)

Pitbull Pedal said:


> Maybe you didn't notice but he does have a foot clipped in at the beginning


Uhh yea. THAT is how people ride bikes.
That is the 'problem' you're trying to solve.


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## Pitbull Pedal (Feb 19, 2018)

tlg said:


> Uhh yea. THAT is how people ride bikes.
> That is the 'problem' you're trying to solve.


Man you are a tough guy to crack. I was actually on a bike ride last night and when I was sitting at the traffic light waiting for it to change I realized that I had both feet on the ground as I had just missed the light and knew I had a long wait. So not that it is a big deal but there are times that you have both feet on the ground and the light turns when you are not expecting it to and you need to engage quickly.


----------



## tlg (May 11, 2011)

Pitbull Pedal said:


> Man you are a tough guy to crack.


Uhhh... no. That is how people ride bikes. Millions of them. I don't know that I've ever seen someone with clipless pedals, not even noobs, put both feet on the ground at a red light.

So your pedal is a solution for the one in a million person who on a rare occasion has to put both feet on the ground at a red light and then engage quickly when it turns green.


----------



## Pitbull Pedal (Feb 19, 2018)

tlg said:


> Uhhh... no. That is how people ride bikes. Millions of them. I don't know that I've ever seen someone with clipless pedals, not even noobs, put both feet on the ground at a red light.
> 
> So your pedal is a solution for the one in a million person who on a rare occasion has to put both feet on the ground at a red light and then engage quickly when it turns green.


Maybe you are actually a new rider yourself, I really don't know. All that I can say is that whenever you do put both feet on the ground, ours is easier to get into. I'm not really saying anything more than that, we are just quicker. For the doubters on the forum, we are trying to get an A+ rider to do some sprinting to so I can video tape it. I don't think that it'll show much more than I have already shown but it will be a sponsored rider.


----------



## QuiQuaeQuod (Jan 24, 2003)

Pitbull Pedal said:


> ... I was sitting at the traffic light waiting for it to change I realized that I had both feet on the ground as I had just missed the light and knew I had a long wait.


I bet you sport a chainring "tattoo" regularly.

I didn't even unclip both feet when I leaned my bike down so the crank triggered the road sensor for a left turn, in cases where that was needed in my urban riding days. 

I don't know any cyclists (as opposed to people who just are out riding a bike) who put two feet down at a light, no matter how long the wait. One foot down, the other stays clipped in for re-start. For very long waits, cyclists rest their thigh on the top tube while still clipped in as the other foot is on the ground.

Some just track stand.


----------



## tlg (May 11, 2011)

Pitbull Pedal said:


> Maybe you are actually a new rider yourself, I really don't know.


I've got a few years under my belt. I've done (and led) many... many group rides of all different rider levels. According to my Strava data, over 8 years, I've rode with 876 different people. (if you counted non-Strava users I'm sure it's well over 1,000). 
I've taught numerous newbie riders how to use clipless pedals.

So when I say I don't know that I've ever seen someone with clipless pedals put both feet on the ground at a red light, it comes from quite a bit of experience. That is not how people ride bikes.


----------



## tomato coupe (Nov 8, 2009)

It seems these pedals are going to be perfect for beginners who ride crits starting with both feet on the ground.


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## Pitbull Pedal (Feb 19, 2018)

QuiQuaeQuod said:


> I bet you sport a chainring "tattoo" regularly.
> 
> I didn't even unclip both feet when I leaned my bike down so the crank triggered the road sensor for a left turn, in cases where that was needed in my urban riding days.
> 
> ...


OMG your opinion is valid for yourself, remember these are all things that you do. Some people may just do it different. Lighten up.




tlg said:


> I've got a few years under my belt. I've done (and led) many... many group rides of all different rider levels. According to my Strava data, over 8 years, I've rode with 876 different people. (if you counted non-Strava users I'm sure it's well over 1,000).
> I've taught numerous newbie riders how to use clipless pedals.
> 
> So when I say I don't know that I've ever seen someone with clipless pedals put both feet on the ground at a red light, it comes from quite a bit of experience. That is not how people ride bikes.


It is nice to hear your knowledge comes from experience and you are not making stuff up.

Many many times on short stops I leave a foot clipped in. But sometimes I put both feet down and stretch my legs a little, etc. It isn't any harm to take both feet out at a very long traffic light.




tomato coupe said:


> It seems these pedals are going to be perfect for beginners who ride crits starting with both feet on the ground.


I love it.


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## dir-t (Oct 14, 2005)

QuiQuaeQuod said:


> I don't know any cyclists (as opposed to people who just are out riding a bike) who put two feet down at a light, no matter how long the wait. .


I don't have a dog in this fight and only stopped in to see WTF is causing this thread to hit 8 pages - but I do take exception to this.

On my commuter bike, which has flat pedals, I'll often put put both feet on the ground at long lights. Given the geometry of my commuter (a mid-90s rigid MTB) this is much more comfortable than staying seating with one foot on its tippy toes touching the ground. It also allows me to stretch my back and take in the views a bit better.

On my road bike I only unclip one foot though since clipping into my Look Keo pedals IS a bit finicky and standing on those blocky cleats is also a bit sketchy. It's not so bad that I would want to change pedals though.

On my MTB (my main ride) I can clip into my Time Attacks in almost no time at all from any position - certainly less than 2 seconds. For some reason though they gave me hot spots on the road bike.


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## QuiQuaeQuod (Jan 24, 2003)

Pitbull Pedal said:


> OMG your opinion is valid for yourself, remember these are all things that you do. Some people may just do it different. Lighten up.



What I said was more than opinion, it is based on 3+ decades of cycling with others. Road and trail.


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## tlg (May 11, 2011)

Pitbull Pedal said:


> Many many times on short stops I leave a foot clipped in. But sometimes I put both feet down and stretch my legs a little, etc. It isn't any harm to take both feet out at a very long traffic light.


There's no harm in having both feet on the ground, other than being caught off guard when the light turns. But you are in a vast minority. You've created a solution for... you. 


Clearly you haven't done any market research on who you will be selling your product to.


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## QuiQuaeQuod (Jan 24, 2003)

dir-t said:


> On my commuter bike, which has flat pedals, I'll often put put both feet on the ground at long lights. Given the geometry of my commuter (a mid-90s rigid MTB) this is much more comfortable than *staying seating with one foot on its tippy toes touching the ground*. It also allows me to stretch my back and take in the views a bit better.
> 
> On my road bike I only unclip one foot ...


emphasis added.



I was assuming clipless, given the context of the discussion. I note that you do one foot when riding clipless.

But why TF are you EVER trying to put one foot down while SITTING? That's how kids bikes get set up, but grownups with saddles at a height to be efficient should not consider such a thing.


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## cxwrench (Nov 9, 2004)

I don't know nor have I seen anyone that rides enough to be on clipless pedals ever take both feet off the pedals when stopped. The only time I see that is when complete beginners waddle in to the bike shop with the bike between their legs.


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## velodog (Sep 26, 2007)

Pitbull Pedal said:


> Maybe you are actually a new rider yourself, I really don't know. All that I can say is that whenever you do put both feet on the ground, ours is easier to get into. I'm not really saying anything more than that, we are just quicker. For the doubters on the forum, we are trying to get an A+ rider to do some sprinting to so I can video tape it. I don't think that it'll show much more than I have already shown but it will be a sponsored rider.


What's the big hurry to get clipped in? Even if both feet are unclipped, for some reason, at a red light, a smart cyclist is paying enough attention to traffic and their surroundings to clip in when the cross traffic gets the yellow. And then it's just a matter of clipping into the other pedal when pedaling starts.

If a cyclist isn't paying enough attention to their surroundings to know when the traffic light is changing that cyclist should probably be riding on the sidewalk and walking their bike thru intersections.


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## velodog (Sep 26, 2007)

cxwrench said:


> I don't know nor have I seen anyone that rides enough to be on clipless pedals ever take both feet off the pedals when stopped. *The only time I see that is when complete beginners waddle in to the bike shop with the bike between their legs*.


LOL

You just painted a picture that brightened up my day.

You must spread some Reputation around before giving it to cxwrench again.


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## Oxtox (Aug 16, 2006)

only time I unclip both pedals is to dismount.


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## cxwrench (Nov 9, 2004)

velodog said:


> LOL
> 
> You just painted a picture that brightened up my day.
> 
> You must spread some Reputation around before giving it to cxwrench again.


:thumbsup:


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## QuiQuaeQuod (Jan 24, 2003)

velodog said:


> You must spread some Reputation around before giving it to cxwrench again.


I covered it for you.


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## No Time Toulouse (Sep 7, 2016)

Pitbull Pedal said:


> Well I think that at this point it is about time to break this thread off. ......


And yet he posts 4 more times.........


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## Lombard (May 8, 2014)

Pitbull,

On a different topic, I hope you plan of making some kind of cover for those cleats which will be wood floor gougers without them.


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## xxl (Mar 19, 2002)

Perhaps this has been covered, or covered in the earlier thread(s?), but shouldn't this thread have been in Components, Wrenching?


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## tlg (May 11, 2011)

Lombard said:


> Pitbull,
> 
> On a different topic, I hope you plan of making some kind of cover for those cleats which will be wood floor gougers without them.


That was covered in the other thread... and dismissed.



Pitbull Pedal said:


> I can't deny that a pedal that's secondary design to walk on hardwood floors isn't better, but I can guarantee that I can get out of my pedals much faster.





Pitbull Pedal said:


> Again I agree with what you are saying, I think that if you were to go into a store and pirouette like a figure skater that you could cause some serious damage. But in normal conditions we have had no issues up to date. I do appreciate the input though.


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## Pitbull Pedal (Feb 19, 2018)

QuiQuaeQuod said:


> What I said was more than opinion, it is based on 3+ decades of cycling with others. Road and trail.


I appreciate how long you have been riding. I am just a firm believer that everyone has an opinion about everything. Yours is 100% correct for you. Thanks




tlg said:


> There's no harm in having both feet on the ground, other than being caught off guard when the light turns. But you are in a vast minority. You've created a solution for... you.
> 
> 
> Clearly you haven't done any market research on who you will be selling your product to.


Clearly you are absolutely right, we are just two guys that have had an idea of a new pedal. We have pursued it until we thought that we have it perfected. We will attempt to move on with sales as we acquire parts.



cxwrench said:


> I don't know nor have I seen anyone that rides enough to be on clipless pedals ever take both feet off the pedals when stopped. The only time I see that is when complete beginners waddle in to the bike shop with the bike between their legs.


Funny. It is amazing that people will go on and on about if you ever have both feet on the ground at any point during the ride or not. It is just if you do that it is quicker & easier to get back in with our pedals.



velodog said:


> What's the big hurry to get clipped in? Even if both feet are unclipped, for some reason, at a red light, a smart cyclist is paying enough attention to traffic and their surroundings to clip in when the cross traffic gets the yellow. And then it's just a matter of clipping into the other pedal when pedaling starts.
> 
> If a cyclist isn't paying enough attention to their surroundings to know when the traffic light is changing that cyclist should probably be riding on the sidewalk and walking their bike thru intersections.


Maybe you have not ridden in many large group rides. But in a pack of bikes it is nice to get clipped in quickly so you don't have a problem or make a problem for someone behind you.




Oxtox said:


> only time I unclip both pedals is to dismount.


That is good but when you are at a traffic light and your one foot is clipped in (for me it is my left foot) and you push off with your left foot as the right pedal comes up, with our pedal you are able to engage so fast that you turn it into an immediate power stroke.




No Time Toulouse said:


> And yet he posts 4 more times.........


Yes, but I did say that if anyone had anything to say I would respond. I'm just trying not to bring up anything new. I'm just hoping to get the pedals manufactured and send out many samples across the country. Some will be going to this forum if requested.




Lombard said:


> Pitbull,
> 
> On a different topic, I hope you plan of making some kind of cover for those cleats which will be wood floor gougers without them.


The original cleats were made out of aluminum and stainless. The final product turned out to be glass filled nylon with a long no slip rubber pad across the bottom. Shouldn't scratch anything.





tlg said:


> That was covered in the other thread... and dismissed.


I did take the worries into account, we have gone with glass filled nylon with a hard rubber pad.


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## QuiQuaeQuod (Jan 24, 2003)

Pitbull Pedal said:


> I appreciate how long you have been riding. I am just a firm believer that everyone has an opinion about everything. Yours is 100% correct for you. Thanks


If you can't understand the difference between opinion and observations, that explains a lot.


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## QuiQuaeQuod (Jan 24, 2003)

Pitbull Pedal said:


> Maybe you have not ridden in many large group rides. But in a pack of bikes it is nice to get clipped in quickly so you don't have a problem or make a problem for someone behind you.


Post a pic of you on a large group ride.


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## tlg (May 11, 2011)

Pitbull Pedal said:


> Maybe you have not ridden in many large group rides. But in a pack of bikes it is nice to get clipped in quickly so you don't have a problem or make a problem for someone behind you.


Several of us have told you we've done many group rides. Actually it's not nice to get clipped in quickly. Inevitably, there's someone in front who's slower or misses their pedal. If you're behind them and gung ho to go, you're gonna ram into them. Or have to stop again.

I seriously question your experience riding with others.





> The original cleats were made out of aluminum and stainless. The final product turned out to be glass filled nylon with a long no slip rubber pad across the bottom. Shouldn't scratch anything.


Well that's an improvement if it's strong enough. But doesn't that make the cleat considerably taller than it already is?


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## Pitbull Pedal (Feb 19, 2018)

QuiQuaeQuod said:


> Post a pic of you on a large group ride.











Here is a picture of Roger and I doing a coast to coast ride across Florida. Starting on the East Coast coming to the West Coast. I have ridden the horrible 100 (2 or 3 times) with many riders. I have also done quite a lot of charity rides with a lot of people in those also. Then there is just standard group rides with Suncoast Cycling and others.





tlg said:


> Several of us have told you we've done many group rides. Actually it's not nice to get clipped in quickly. Inevitably, there's someone in front who's slower or misses their pedal. If you're behind them and gung ho to go, you're gonna ram into them. Or have to stop again.
> 
> I seriously question your experience riding with others.
> 
> ...


I don't know what to say other than when you are in the car and the light turns green you don't just plow into the person in front of you, same concept. It is just nice not to be the one holding up the group.

As far as the height of the new cleat we were able to keep everything at around the same height. It may be an additional 1/16th of an inch. That is a small price to pay to have the non-slip surface and sound deadening if you are walking on a tile floor in a store.


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## QuiQuaeQuod (Jan 24, 2003)

Pitbull Pedal said:


> Here is a picture ...


"Invalid Attachment specified. "


So, a broken link icon and no pic. :thumbsup:


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## OldZaskar (Jul 1, 2009)

The light turned green... the guys clipped in and were GONE. I mean, how'd they clip in so fast? I'll bet it took them less than 2.2 seconds. It took me almost 2.5 seconds to clip in. It wasn't fast enough... I never rejoined the group. I miss those guys.


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## Pitbull Pedal (Feb 19, 2018)

Not sure why it didn't show up for Qui but it still showed up for me.


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## Pitbull Pedal (Feb 19, 2018)

OldZaskar said:


> The light turned green... the guys clipped in and were GONE. I mean, how'd they clip in so fast? I'll bet it took them less than 2.2 seconds. It took me almost 2.5 seconds to clip in. It wasn't fast enough... I never rejoined the group. I miss those guys.


Funny. But I think that a lot of people are just missing my point here. We are only saying that we believe that we are the fastest to clip into. If you are riding in a group, for me would be along Gulf Blvd when you get down south there are a lot of traffic lights and stops unfortunately. I am just saying that if you were in the middle of the pack and the guy in front of you can't find his clip and you all are stuck behind him then the lead man is just getting further and further away. I'll give you my theory on that also. On a group ride nobody in the front of the pack should leave a traffic light fast. They should just simply take off and start ramping up slowly to let the entire pack form a line. Only then start picking up the pace.


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## aclinjury (Sep 12, 2011)

QuiQuaeQuod said:


> "Invalid Attachment specified. "
> 
> 
> So, a broken link icon and no pic. :thumbsup:


you here on RBR long enough to know that attaching pics on this site has always been problematic. Sometimes I have to edit my post again and reattach the same pic for it to show up properly


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## tomato coupe (Nov 8, 2009)

Pitbull Pedal said:


> Funny. But I think that a lot of people are just missing my point here. We are only saying that we believe that we are the fastest to clip into.


I think you're missing the point. Clip-in time is not a problem with existing pedals. So, even if your pedals are quicker to clip into -- which is an unsupported claim -- your pedals are a "solution" to a non-existent problem.


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## velodog (Sep 26, 2007)

Pitbull Pedal said:


> Funny. But I think that a lot of people are just missing my point here. We are only saying that we believe that we are the fastest to clip into. If you are riding in a group, for me would be along Gulf Blvd when you get down south there are a lot of traffic lights and stops unfortunately. *I am just saying that if you were in the middle of the pack and the guy in front of you can't find his clip and you all are stuck behind him then the lead man is just getting further and further away. * I'll give you my theory on that also. On a group ride nobody in the front of the pack should leave a traffic light fast. They should just simply take off and start ramping up slowly to let the entire pack form a line. Only then start picking up the pace.


So what you're saying here is that the guy in front of me needs your pedals.


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## Oxtox (Aug 16, 2006)

on a typical in-town ride, I probably clip in my right foot about 20 times...

not once are there ever any nagging thoughts about how 'slowly' it happens.


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## tlg (May 11, 2011)

velodog said:


> So what you're saying here is that the guy in front of me needs your pedals.


Only if you have both feet on the ground.


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## Pitbull Pedal (Feb 19, 2018)

tomato coupe said:


> I think you're missing the point. Clip-in time is not a problem with existing pedals. So, even if your pedals are quicker to clip into -- which is an unsupported claim -- your pedals are a "solution" to a non-existent problem.


There are only a few clip in pedal options that I am aware of. I believe that there is room for one more. Just as though there are so many different makes and models of cars. You may not have a problem with clipping in but maybe you did when you first started riding and it has just been so long ago that you don't remember. I do believe that our pedal is going to be awesome for newbies and because we know it holds a lot of pressure in sprinting and riding extremely hard, I think that it would be a good option for the class A riders as well. We will be making some of the pedals in titanium as we move forward so we also believe that they would be one of the lightest pedals on the market as well.



velodog said:


> So what you're saying here is that the guy in front of me needs your pedals.


Well if the guy did have them he wouldn't be holding you up. Haha




Oxtox said:


> on a typical in-town ride, I probably clip in my right foot about 20 times...
> 
> not once are there ever any nagging thoughts about how 'slowly' it happens.


I understand that, with some of the other pedals obviously you are able still to get in without missing often. We just believe our pedal is superior.




tlg said:


> Only if you have both feet on the ground.


We have to get past this both feet on the ground. We just gave a scenario that if you had both feet, ours would be the easiest and quickest to get into. However someone chooses to ride is their option. Even with only clipping in one foot our pedal is much faster, as you are on an immediate power stroke.


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## tlg (May 11, 2011)

Pitbull Pedal said:


> We have to get past this both feet on the ground. We just gave a scenario that if you had both feet, ours would be the easiest and quickest to get into.


We don't have to get past it. It's the entire basis on why you think your pedal is super duper fast.



> Even with only clipping in one foot our pedal is much faster, as you are on an immediate power stroke.


B.S. How do you define 'much' faster?

Let me remind you. We're talking about 3 seconds (or less).


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## Pitbull Pedal (Feb 19, 2018)

tlg said:


> We don't have to get past it. It's the entire basis on why you think your pedal is super duper fast.
> 
> B.S. How do you define 'much' faster?
> 
> Let me remind you. We're talking about 3 seconds (or less).


You keep referring to B.S. I assure you there is no B.S. intended from our end. In almost anything time does matter. Whether it is to win a race or just to complete clipping in so you can physically look up again and make sure everything is moving the way it should be. Like I had said in an earlier post there are many makes and models of car and only a few types of clip in pedals. As ours do look similar from some made back in the day I assure you that they are different enough and that is how we were able to get the patent. As far as the video that you've posted from GCN that is possibly a pro rider and that could've been the 4th or 5th take to make the video. Nobody really knows. When we get these pedals made, you would definitely be one person that I would be more than happy to send a set to so you could give them a try. If you didn't like them for some reason then you could simply throw them away. No harm no foul as you would just be one person that did not particularly like this method.


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## tlg (May 11, 2011)

Pitbull Pedal said:


> You keep referring to B.S. I assure you there is no B.S. intended from our end.


You didn't answer my question.
How do you define 'much' faster (than 3 seconds)?




> In almost anything time does matter. Whether it is to win a race or just to complete clipping in so you can physically look up again and make sure everything is moving the way it should be.


Clipping in doesn't win races. You really should stop talking about racing.



> As far as the video that you've posted from GCN that is possibly a pro rider and that could've been the 4th or 5th take to make the video. Nobody really knows.


Wrong. We do know. We can do that. Usually faster than 3 seconds. It doesn't take a pro rider.


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## Pitbull Pedal (Feb 19, 2018)

tlg said:


> You didn't answer my question.
> How do you define 'much' faster (than 3 seconds)?
> 
> 
> ...


I don't exactly know how to answer your question, other than the easier it is to engage the pedal which means the quicker it is to start pedaling and to look up and be safe in your environment. You're killing me Willis 

The only time racing ever came up was with the news interview that lasted for 45 minutes to an hour and she happened to pick that sentence out of the thousands of words that we discussed.

The whole point of my video was to show that you can get both feet clipped in, in 2 seconds. Which actually took less than 2 seconds on the video. Whether you have both feet on the ground or one clipped in, ours I just believe is much quicker and efficient to get clipped into with 360 degrees of entry.


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## tomato coupe (Nov 8, 2009)

Pitbull Pedal said:


> Like I had said in an earlier post there are ... only a few types of clip in pedals.


Only a few? Competitive Cyclist sells over 125 pedals on their website. Over 80 of those are two-sided pedals that are really quick and easy to clip into.



> As far as the video that you've posted from GCN that is possibly a pro rider and that could've been the 4th or 5th take to make the video. Nobody really knows.


You're probably right. Clipping into ordinary pedals is so difficult, it likely took a former pro rider 4 or 5 attempts to successfully do it.


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## Pitbull Pedal (Feb 19, 2018)

tomato coupe said:


> Only a few? Competitive Cyclist sells over 125 pedals on their website. Over 80 of those are two-sided pedals that are really quick and easy to clip into.
> 
> 
> 
> You're probably right. Clipping into ordinary pedals is so difficult, it likely took a former pro rider 4 or 5 attempts to successfully do it.


I just glanced over at Competitive cyclist, as far as clip-less pedals that I'm dealing with, they do not have that many different versions of pedals. They are basically Shiamano/LooK or the lollipop or egg beater. I still think that there is room for one more that is highly competitive in pricing and is the easiest to learn and continue to use.

As a for instance in the Red Bull Bay Climb a group stops from a dead stop and races straight up hill. For this particular race to get in quickly would be a benefit.


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## tomato coupe (Nov 8, 2009)

Pitbull Pedal said:


> As a for instance in the Red Bull Bay Climb a group stops from a dead stop and races straight up hill. For this particular race to get in quickly would be a benefit.


You might want to check out videos from that race. It's definitely not won at the start line.

Now, about that pro needing 4 or 5 attempts to clip in ...


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## Pitbull Pedal (Feb 19, 2018)

tomato coupe said:


> You might want to check out videos from that race. It's definitely not won at the start line.
> 
> Now, about that pro needing 4 or 5 attempts to clip in ...


You and I, it appears are going to have a lot of fun. Everything that you lose at the start you have to make back up at the finish. That is a fact and not an opinion 

You nor I have any idea if that was 1 take, or 2 or 3. I can even tell you on our pedals with 360 degree entry it is possible to miss the clip, if you are thinking about the awesome Ferrari.


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## tomato coupe (Nov 8, 2009)

Pitbull Pedal said:


> Everything that you lose at the start you have to make back up at the finish. That is a fact and not an opinion


You haven't watched the videos of the race, have you? 



> You nor I have any idea if that was 1 take, or 2 or 3. I can even tell you on our pedals with 360 degree entry it is possible to miss the clip, if you are thinking about the awesome Ferrari.


Huh?


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## tlg (May 11, 2011)

Pitbull Pedal said:


> You nor I have any idea if that was 1 take, or 2 or 3. I can even tell you on our pedals with 360 degree entry it is possible to miss the clip, if you are thinking about the awesome Ferrari.


I'm 99.999% sure that was done on 1 take. Because.... that is how easy SPD pedals work. We've done and witnessed it countless times. Decades of experience.

We have no idea if your Pitbull videos were 1, 2, or 10 takes. (see how your silly game works)
I see no evidence that it's impossible to miss your clip.


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## Pitbull Pedal (Feb 19, 2018)

tomato coupe said:


> You haven't watched the videos of the race, have you?
> 
> 
> 
> Huh?


Absolutely, that is how I found it.

I missed the typing the words next to. My bad.




tlg said:


> I'm 99.999% sure that was done on 1 take. Because.... that is how easy SPD pedals work. We've done and witnessed it countless times. Decades of experience.
> 
> We have no idea if your Pitbull videos were 1, 2, or 10 takes. (see how your silly game works)
> I see no evidence that it's impossible to miss your clip.



Like I had said in a quote earlier, there is a chance that you can miss the pedal. It is so easy to get into that you would almost have to miss it intentionally. You simply set your toe on the pedal and as your foot rolls forward the pedal simply engages. Nothing to line up.

As far as takes and videos I guess that would be everyone's secret.


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## tomato coupe (Nov 8, 2009)

Pitbull Pedal said:


> Absolutely, that is how I found it.


Maybe you can point to a video where clip-in time made a difference. In every video I've seen, the rider who gets the early jump ... loses.


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## Pitbull Pedal (Feb 19, 2018)

tomato coupe said:


> Maybe you can point to a video where clip-in time made a difference. In every video I've seen, the rider who gets the early jump ... loses.


There isn't really much that I can say with your theory.


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## Pitbull Pedal (Feb 19, 2018)

Some good news, I just stopped by our local bike shop and I do believe that I have one of the employees to make a non-biased video with us on Sunday at some point. If all goes well we will be able to share the video early in the week.


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## tomato coupe (Nov 8, 2009)

Pitbull Pedal said:


> As a for instance in the Red Bull Bay Climb a group stops from a dead stop and races straight up hill. For this particular race to get in quickly would be a benefit.





tomato coupe said:


> Maybe you can point to a video where clip-in time made a difference.





Pitbull Pedal said:


> There isn't really much that I can say with your theory.


It's not my theory. You cited this particular race as one where clip-in time matters. Can you point to a video of this race that supports your claim?


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## asgelle (Apr 21, 2003)

You, as a customer, asked an employee to make a video. Presumably, you will be present. At the very least, the employee will be delivering the video to you and knows it’s intended to promote your product. Did I mention you’re a customer?

That word [non-biased], I don’t think it means what you think it means.


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## Oxtox (Aug 16, 2006)

based on numerous threads and comments, this product has little to no support among RBR members.

so, why does the developer insist on coming here to promote it...?

it's becoming tedious. seems like an intelligent person would note the overwhelmingly negative sentiments and go elsewhere to hawk their so-called 'fastest pedal'...as if anyone anywhere would care about that marketing hype.


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## Lombard (May 8, 2014)

Oxtox said:


> based on numerous threads and comments, this product has little to no support among RBR members.
> 
> so, why does the developer insist on coming here to promote it...?


Masochism?


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## Pitbull Pedal (Feb 19, 2018)

tomato coupe said:


> It's not my theory. You cited this particular race as one where clip-in time matters. Can you point to a video of this race that supports your claim?


I appreciate the thought, I just cannot find any reason why it wouldn't be good to be in the lead immediately based off of your equipment. But obviously the best place to be in the lead is at the end of any race.




asgelle said:


> You, as a customer, asked an employee to make a video. Presumably, you will be present. At the very least, the employee will be delivering the video to you and knows it’s intended to promote your product. Did I mention you’re a customer?
> 
> That word [non-biased], I don’t think it means what you think it means.


There is nothing more that I can say other than if I have gone to a local bike shop and got their A rider to do a test ride for me, and I can give you an un-edited video. That is the best I can do. It was suppose to be done this weekend, but the gentleman had a family health issue and was not able to meet with us.



Oxtox said:


> based on numerous threads and comments, this product has little to no support among RBR members.
> 
> so, why does the developer insist on coming here to promote it...?
> 
> it's becoming tedious. seems like an intelligent person would note the overwhelmingly negative sentiments and go elsewhere to hawk their so-called 'fastest pedal'...as if anyone anywhere would care about that marketing hype.


You know what everyone says about opinions



Lombard said:


> Masochism?


Definitely not a masochist, it just seems like we have quite a few pessimists vs optimists. The US is a huge area and we are not trying to corner the market.


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## OldZaskar (Jul 1, 2009)

Pitbull Pedal said:


> The US is a huge area and we are not trying to corner the market.


As I mentioned pages ago... I work with (mostly large) companies as they build, test, research, market new brands. I've never seen a company seek to win every customer. But (and it's a big but) when these companies test product/positioning concepts with the target audience (based on psychographics - not just demographics), and see feedback like you're seeing in this "focus group" - EVERY product team I've worked with would cut their losses, and move to the next idea in the "innovation pipeline."

You've had hundreds of views - opportunities to comment - on your concept, and literally NO ONE has signaled an intent to purchase. I wonder if you're dismissing this because it was free. If you'd paid the $100,000++ it would've taken to get this kind of consumer insight, would it have had more of an impact?


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## Pitbull Pedal (Feb 19, 2018)

OldZaskar said:


> As I mentioned pages ago... I work with (mostly large) companies as they build, test, research, market new brands. I've never seen a company seek to win every customer. But (and it's a big but) when these companies test product/positioning concepts with the target audience (based on psychographics - not just demographics), and see feedback like you're seeing in this "focus group" - EVERY product team I've worked with would cut their losses, and move to the next idea in the "innovation pipeline."
> 
> You've had hundreds of views - opportunities to comment - on your concept, and literally NO ONE has signaled an intent to purchase. I wonder if you're dismissing this because it was free. If you'd paid the $100,000++ it would've taken to get this kind of consumer insight, would it have had more of an impact?


You are correct that many people have seen this ongoing thread. But I do believe that it is the same 5 or 6 people that keep regurgitating the same negative thoughts. I have tried to respond to all of them with the best of my ability. The pedal has not even been manufactured yet, and I believe that everyone understands that there are none to buy at this time. Also like you have mentioned, I'm not trying to win every customer. But the US is a large area and I'm not trying to put one of my pedals on every road bike. We just came up with an idea and have perfected it down to the simplest and quickest to engage. Also we do believe that the pricing can be extremely competitive in the market. We have truly listened to every person that has communicated with us and have tried to give honest answers in every response.

As far as the $100k+ financial gain in customer insight, I really never thought of it that way as I was just getting on a bike forum and having a discussion. We do spend money on FB ads every week across the country to prepare for the Oct. crowdsourcing campaign. Only time will tell.

Thanks for the input.


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## OldZaskar (Jul 1, 2009)

You're right. You should definitely move forward - full steam ahead.


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## Pitbull Pedal (Feb 19, 2018)

OldZaskar said:


> You're right. You should definitely move forward - full steam ahead.


If you are being sincere, I agree that people must try things. If I don't succeed it is ok, even if we have an investor everyone will know the +/- before going into the venture.


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## BlazingPedals (Apr 4, 2013)

This thread reminds me of some recumbent riders, who continue to preach even after everyone has told him they're not interested.


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## Pitbull Pedal (Feb 19, 2018)

And now you are the one who is keeping it going. THANKS!!!


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## Lombard (May 8, 2014)

Pitbull Pedal said:


> And now you are the one who is keeping it going. THANKS!!!


Now who was the meanie who hit you with negative rep?


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## Oxtox (Aug 16, 2006)

deleted...


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## No Time Toulouse (Sep 7, 2016)

BlazingPedals said:


> This thread reminds me of some recumbent riders, who continue to preach even after everyone has told him they're not interested.


Or 'that guy' who has a Moon saddle......


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## PBL450 (Apr 12, 2014)

Lombard said:


> Now who was the meanie who hit you with negative rep?


Right? Pit bull has been anything but neg rep worthy... IMO anyway. You may not like his product design, but he’s been civil and appropriate. I don’t get neg rep at all.


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## redondoaveb (Jan 16, 2011)

PBL450 said:


> Right? Pit bull has been anything but neg rep worthy... IMO anyway. You may not like his product design, but he’s been civil and appropriate. I don’t get neg rep at all.


It was system shock that gave him the negative rep. Makes him feel like a big man. His pedal system isn't for me but I have to applaude him for trying. He has endured a ton of ridicule and has remained civil throughout.


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## Lombard (May 8, 2014)

PBL450 said:


> Right? Pit bull has been anything but neg rep worthy... IMO anyway. You may not like his product design, but he’s been civil and appropriate. I don’t get neg rep at all.


I would concur with you here. I only negative rep people who are combative bullies or obvious trolls.

Pitbull, while at times seemed like a masochist pitching a product here that nobody had any interest in, at least his conduct was always civil.


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## Pitbull Pedal (Feb 19, 2018)

The last few statements have been negative and positive. The only thing I can tell you until you ride with our pedal there is no way for you to determine how they function. Every video and every statement I have made is accurate to the best of my ability. I know that these pedals look familiar to some pedals that were created awhile ago but all of those pedals had issues and I do believe we have all those issues worked out with our design.


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## QuiQuaeQuod (Jan 24, 2003)

Pitbull Pedal said:


> ... to the best of my ability.


Agreed.


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## ogre (Dec 16, 2005)

Guys, you gotta admit. He's taken our feedback and come along quite a bit since his early prototypes.

Phil Wood CHP Pedals: 1970's - Bike Recyclery


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## aclinjury (Sep 12, 2011)

well, it appears that the world's fastest pedal, Pitbull pedal, is back. 
Kudos to the OP.


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## Lombard (May 8, 2014)

aclinjury said:


> well, it appears that the world's fastest pedal, Pitbull pedal, is back.
> Kudos to the OP.


I want to know how many units he has sold.


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## ogre (Dec 16, 2005)

PBL450 said:


> Right? Pit bull has been anything but neg rep worthy... IMO anyway. You may not like his product design, but he’s been civil and appropriate. I don’t get neg rep at all.





Pitbull Pedal said:


> The last few statements have been negative and positive. The only thing I can tell you until you ride with our pedal there is no way for you to determine how they function. Every video and every statement I have made is accurate to the best of my ability. I know that these pedals look familiar to some pedals that were created awhile ago but all of those pedals had issues and I do believe we have all those issues worked out with our design.


Hats off to you Pitbull! As others have said, you've always taken the high road in your responses. Myself, among others, have chuckled at your approach as well as Roger's sprinting prowess - but you've always said you all were some bucks trying to put a product to market. I don't think any of you risked your retirements for this and you accomplished 99.9% of what the rest of us will never be able to do.


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