# Who else hates compact cranks?



## brentster (Jul 12, 2007)

I'm kinda "cranky" right now. I bought a Felt F3C a couple of days ago and love the bike except for the FSA Carbon Pros. They are a 50/34 and the inner chain ring is useless above 15 mph as it starts to grind the outside of the front derailler by the time I'm on the 7th cog of my 10 speed Dura Ace. So then I hop over to the upper chain ring, which needs to be on about the 3rd cog to keep from grinding on the inside of the front derailler. SO - everythings good above 20, but then there's some traffic up ahead and I have to slow down to about 16. BACK to the lower chainring. Then there's stop signs and lights, etc. On my Ultegra 39 tooth, I could stay on my lower chainring and use all the gears I wanted. Now I have to switch back and forth 10 times, and after I get tired of doing that, I just let the chain grind.

It pisses me off. I need to look into getting a bigger inner ring which FSA will probably 
happily charge me about $50 for. Or they'll tell me that its not compatible with etc. etc. 

:cryin: :mad2: 

Why would anyone want these stupid compact cranks? If in the mountains, you just could just change your cassette a tad.

An edit: I'm in Houston and the only mountains I have is the occasional overpass.


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## Slartibartfast (Jul 22, 2007)

*Oh NOOOoooooo!*

...another horror story about compacts!

Actually, the verdict seems equally split between folks who love them and those who hate them. I'm concerned because I'm planning to buy one, just don't know which.

A common thread in my research is that everyone who doesn't like them is running either an FSA or a 50/34, or both. My LBS hates FSA, but they sell a lot of them because they're so light. They love Shimano because even though they're waaay too heavy, they work well. And it does look like 50/36 is turning out to be a better combo than 50/34.

I wish I were an expert on this issue, and I'm hoping a bunch of compact users will respond to this thread because I need more info! :mad2:


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## Slartibartfast (Jul 22, 2007)

brentster said:


> Why would anyone want these stupid compact cranks? If in the mountains, you just could just change your cassette a tad.


Not true. There are plenty of folks (or at least one, based on my experience) that have trouble with even a 12-27 in the mountains. In fact it was a trip to CO in May that convinced me a compact would be useful. A couple of climbs that would be TdF Category 1 ate me up. There are plenty of HC climbs around too, I just didn't do any. The cycling community now boasts a bunch of aging baby boomers like me that can use a compact crankset.


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## Pablo (Jul 7, 2004)

I don't know if I'm any help (I doubt it) but I've been pleased with mine, although I'm not the zealot you imply. My Campy 50/34 with an 11/23 cassette gives me a broader range than my previous 53/39 with 12/25. It also gives me the option of even more lower gears if I were to need them.


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## IcemanYVR (Jul 27, 2006)

I really like my compact cranks, but they are Campy. I have heard bad stories about the FSA, especially from my LBS.

Don't bash the CC if you have only tried on set-up. There will always be the haters, but give the Shimano or Campy ones a go depending on your setup before you trash them. Properly set-up, they should not give you any more problems more then a traditional chainring.


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## mquetel (Apr 2, 2006)

Pablo said:


> I don't know if I'm any help (I doubt it) but I've been pleased with mine, although I'm not the zealot you imply. My Campy 50/34 with an 11/23 cassette gives me a broader range than my previous 53/39 with 12/25. It also gives me the option of even more lower gears if I were to need them.


Agree 100%


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## Slartibartfast (Jul 22, 2007)

Thanks for the reply; I'm looking for ANY feedback on compacts. To me they're such a good idea I can hardly stand not having one. On the other hand, I hear they can be a mess. Haven't heard any complaints from Campy users, though. Hmmm....

Naaaah! No way I'd change out the whole gruppo...


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## Slartibartfast (Jul 22, 2007)

IcemanYQQ said:


> I really like my compact cranks, but they are Campy. I have heard bad stories about the FSA, especially from my LBS.
> 
> Don't bash the CC if you have only tried on set-up. There will always be the haters, but give the Shimano or Campy ones a go depending on your setup before you trash them. Properly set-up, they should not give you any more problems more then a traditional chainring.


Well, I'm waiting for a lightweight Shimano CC. The new Ultegra UL might do the trick, although I'm hoping for DuraAce. Stronglight is a little too steep. If I ran Campy the choice would be obvious.


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## Saltybiker (Jun 14, 2007)

I have the Shimano one with an 11-25 and am happy. No shifting complaints, and could not climb without it. LBS said Shimano was the only one to go with. 
Not trying to stir up a Campy thing as it would not have been an option on my otherwise Shimano bike.


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## BunnV (Sep 7, 2005)

*No problem for me*

I have a 2005 Felt F55 with the FSA Carbon Pro compact crank. I never had a compact crank before so I did have a short acclimation period BUT, I would never run a triple (too much pride) and a standard crank doesn't have a low enough gear for climbing for my 45 year old legs. Last Sunday I did a fairly long (for me) 86-mile ride with lots of climbing. According to my Garmin I did 6400 (ascent, 12,00 total) feet and I never felt like I needed a granny gear. I also have not experienced the rubbing problems brentster has. I have Dura Ace derailleurs front and rear and a Dura Ace chain.


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## mytorelli (Dec 19, 2004)

I have a compact, and i too hate how much I have to shift between the 34 and 50. I do like it much better than a 39/53. With a 11/26 cassette you can have a huge gear range. 

unless you can get away with a 11/26 with a 39/53, compact is the way to go.


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## climbandcycle (Nov 4, 2004)

I hate compacts, with a passion. I felt like I was always crossed up. I went back to standard gearing with an 11-25 and I've climbed the local HC and still don't think I'll ever try a compact again.


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## Saltybiker (Jun 14, 2007)

> I went back to standard gearing with an 11-25 and I've climbed the local HC and still don't think I'll ever try a compact again.


Well if you can climb all the local stuff with standard gearing then no need to. I think that a compact offers a good alternative to those who don't want a triple.


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## arcspin (May 5, 2007)

I'm a "compact rider" and use 50/36 with 11-21 when I'm home riding on regular hills.
When I'm on Mallorca I switch to 50/34 and 11-23 (or keep the 50/36 and use 12-25) and when I'm in Italy/France I use 50/34 and 12-27.

For me that's a perfect combination of gears.

Regarding the FSA, I ride the FSA K-FORCE LIGHT COMPACT with no problem and I have been riding the FSA K-FORCE COMPACT without any problem as well... not all FSA cranks are crap  


Cheers,


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## The Moontrane (Nov 28, 2005)

I’ve never used an FSA crank-mine is a 50/34 Ritchey WCS crank with a 10sp 12/23 cassette.

With my front der trimmed there is no rubbing in the small-small combo (not that I use it). I have no need to trim when in the big-big combo-no rubbing at all.
Without looking at your setup, I’d surmise that the limit screws or positioning of the der need to be adjusted.
You are using the trim feature of your front shifter, right?

<< They are a 50/34 and the inner chain ring is useless above 15 mph>>
I’ve stated it before: with a CC you’ll switch chainrings sooner as you accelerate; with a conventional crankset, you’ll switch chainrings sooner when you decelerate. 
IOW, one could generalize that with a conventional crank, the “outer chain ring is useless below 18 mph.” We just need to pick our poison.


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## ti-triodes (Aug 14, 2006)

I found for real world riding a 50/36 is much more useful than a 50/34. There is much less shifting between large and small rings and much less stress on the chain because of extreme gearing combos. I don't live in an extremely hilly area, however. A 34 would be more useful in that case.


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## Argentius (Aug 26, 2004)

*Triples!*

Sheesh. People need to just accept the fact that they need a triple. You can even get 53/39/30 triples, I think.


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## brentster (Jul 12, 2007)

Hey Moontrane, I've never heard of triming before, but as I'm looking at my bike, and messing with it, I noticed I can push the front over to the imaginary middle ring that doesn't exist since I have double Dura Ace. That would definitely give me some more speed on the inner ring. Is there a way to trim it back from the Upper without the abrupt pop knocking it down to the lower.


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## Saltybiker (Jun 14, 2007)

Should be able to trim both ways.


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## Wookiebiker (Sep 5, 2005)

brentster said:


> I'm kinda "cranky" right now. I bought a Felt F3C a couple of days ago and love the bike except for the FSA Carbon Pros. They are a 50/34 and the inner chain ring is useless above 15 mph as it starts to grind the outside of the front derailler by the time I'm on the 7th cog of my 10 speed Dura Ace. So then I hop over to the upper chain ring, which needs to be on about the 3rd cog to keep from grinding on the inside of the front derailler. SO - everythings good above 20, but then there's some traffic up ahead and I have to slow down to about 16. BACK to the lower chainring. Then there's stop signs and lights, etc. On my Ultegra 39 tooth, I could stay on my lower chainring and use all the gears I wanted. Now I have to switch back and forth 10 times, and after I get tired of doing that, I just let the chain grind.
> 
> It pisses me off. I need to look into getting a bigger inner ring which FSA will probably
> happily charge me about $50 for. Or they'll tell me that its not compatible with etc. etc.
> ...


No problems with my compact...

However, I actually run 48x34 on the front with a 12x27 in the back and it works great. I can spin the 48x12 up to around 42-43 mph and can stay in the big ring down to around 13 mph. 

When in the small ring I can spin up to about 19 mph in my 34x14 without much problem.


Personally, I find I have absolutely no use for a 53x39 set up. I can never get the gearing I want with that set up unless I go to a MTB rear cassette which means I'm limited to a 9 speed set up and can't go 10 speed.

For the average rider who rides in the hills a lot a 53x39 is really too much. For stronger or lighter riders it's fine.


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## z ken (Dec 30, 2006)

i just installed 50/39 D/A 10 ( bought the 50-teeth outer chain ring ) and removed 53 teeth outer chain ring. for sure i can climb faster and even improve my average speed. two thumbs up for compact!!


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## arcspin (May 5, 2007)

Argentius said:


> Sheesh. People need to just accept the fact that they need a triple. You can even get 53/39/30 triples, I think.


*hehe* Going tripple is like giving up, coing comapct is a more subtle way of doing the same.

Jokes aside, even pros are going for compact, Danillo Di Luca used 34/29 on Mt Zoncolan in this years Giro (I used 34/27) Am I a better rider because of that? I don't think so


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## The Moontrane (Nov 28, 2005)

*What Saltybiker said.*



Saltybiker said:


> Should be able to trim both ways.


lf you're riding the big ring you can depress the black paddle a bit to release some der cable tension. This will trim the front der inward to the top tube without dropping the chain onto the small chain ring.

l'm glad you picked up on this, brentster. :thumbsup: 

You can do search these boards and find MANY comments on CC.


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## shakyfish (Aug 1, 2003)

*Some help*



fougasg said:


> I wish I were an expert on this issue, and I'm hoping a bunch of compact users will respond to this thread because I need more info! :mad2:


fougasg, 

I was in the toss up between and triple and a standard double or compact two yrs ago. I went compact due to the gearing range it gives you. 

I used this page, "http://sheldonbrown.com/gears/" to calculate the possibilities. I went with a 50/34 compact FSA SL-K Carbon and a 12-26 9sp cassette. There are cheaper choices out there. I do not feel stuck between gears in front with this set up. I only use the 34 ring for climbing. The 50 ring works fine for me and really does fine.

As you will find with the super cool link above a 50t and a 21t at 80 rpm is about 15mph which is perfect for me at starts and stops. So with this set up I never really have to go above the third cassette ring on back with the 50t up front.

Brentster, maybe entertain the thought of a cassette swap. that may work out for you.


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## Forrest Root (Dec 22, 2006)

fougasg said:


> Well, I'm waiting for a lightweight Shimano CC. The new Ultegra UL might do the trick, although I'm hoping for DuraAce. Stronglight is a little too steep. If I ran Campy the choice would be obvious.


You can run a Campy crank no matter the rest of the gruppo is on your bike.


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## Juanmoretime (Nov 24, 2001)

I won't say I hate compact but when I tried them for a couple of months two years ago I just didn't feel efficient. Something just didn't feel right. Since I went back to the standard 53, 39 I have read the smaller rings create more friction. Does it? Who knows if its something the average cyclist can detect although I really prefer the standard size rings. I can say last year climbing Lookout Mountain in Chattanooga with a 39, 23 with a 26 bailout gear was perfect.


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## jhamlin38 (Oct 29, 2005)

I have a truvativ rouleur and love it! Silent and stiff. I don't really understand the 34T inner though. I run a 36, and regularly cruise along up to 17-19mph in the 36/14 or maybe 15. When I go to the 50, cross chaining won't allow the biggest cog in back. but the second biggest is just fine. No fr derailleur scraping at all.
The best part about 50/36, is the 14T differential is the same as the old standard 53/39, so a regular front derailleur works fine.
I'm thrilled I went to compacts, and as I look back, wish I would have done so sooner. 
For "trimming" a shimano front derailleur, after shifting all the way to big ring, gently press the inner lever, as you would make a shift back to inner ring, and allow for one click. Don't press it hard, all the way in. This will provide an intermediate "click" and slacken the cable for a "trimming" of the Front deraillleur. 
I'm suprised people with Dura/ace don't know this.


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## Cruzer2424 (Feb 8, 2005)

brentster said:


> I'm kinda "cranky" right now. I bought a Felt F3C a couple of days ago and love the bike except for the FSA Carbon Pros. They are a 50/34 and the inner chain ring is useless above 15 mph as it starts to grind the outside of the front derailler by the time I'm on the 7th cog of my 10 speed Dura Ace. So then I hop over to the upper chain ring, which needs to be on about the 3rd cog to keep from grinding on the inside of the front derailler. SO - everythings good above 20, but then there's some traffic up ahead and I have to slow down to about 16. BACK to the lower chainring. Then there's stop signs and lights, etc. On my Ultegra 39 tooth, I could stay on my lower chainring and use all the gears I wanted. Now I have to switch back and forth 10 times, and after I get tired of doing that, I just let the chain grind.
> 
> It pisses me off. I need to look into getting a bigger inner ring which FSA will probably
> happily charge me about $50 for. Or they'll tell me that its not compatible with etc. etc.
> ...


What? Use the half click. 

Or get an 11-21 to move the "usable" cogs towards the outside.


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## Len J (Jan 28, 2004)

I've said it before & I'll say it again.

A compact is a tool....like most tools, it works for some & not for others.

For me, at the speeds I normally ride and my normal cadence, a compact has me constantly cross chained. It doesn't work for me.

For someone who rides at different speeds &/or different cadences,it can be perfect. Get thee to a gear chart and figure out if it works for you.

Me, I like my 50/39/28 triple. easy shifts between rings, tight gearing, a normal 50/39 for the flats I live in, but a lower gear when this flatlander goes into the mountains & at the speeds and cadences that I normally ride, my chainline is great. 

There are all kinds of solutions to the same problem.

To the OP, I don't think the problem is the FSA crank, rather it sounds like the gearing itself keeps you crosschained at the cadences & speeds you run.

Len


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## hfc (Jan 24, 2003)

FSA Carbon Pro Elite 50-36 with a 12-25 10 sp Campy. I will probably go with an 11 tooth cog when it's time to take out the loan for the new Campy cassette. No big crossing or shifting problems. It does seem that the shifting is better on the Campy 10 that when I was using it on a Dura Ace 9 sp group.


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## scmtnboy (Aug 22, 2006)

I use a combo I don't hear many others using. I have a 36x52 on a FSA Crank with an 11-25 Campy Cassette. I was using an 11-23 but when the introduced the 11-25 this year I thought I would try it. I am really happy with it. 

On a side note, I was using a record compact front derailleur on my Scott CR1 and it shifted great. I had the very first Generation FSA megaexo cranks and they kept coming loose. I sent them back and got them warrantied. In that time I borrowed a friends 39x53 crank and that worked fine with the compact front derailleur.

1 Week ago I broke my CR1. I got an E5 S-works off ebay as a back up frame and I built it up yesterday. It came with a Dura Ace standard front derailleur. It shifts great with my 36x52 FSA Crank and 2007 QS Record shifters.


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## DM-SC (Jul 18, 2007)

Argentius said:


> Sheesh. People need to just accept the fact that they need a triple. You can even get 53/39/30 triples, I think.


Don't tell Paula (my GF) that! It's highly likely that she'd rip her triple crank off her bike and hand it to you! She freakin' hates that thing! She is constantly having to shift back and forth and can never find the right gear. When she does find the right gear, lots of times there's noise of one sort or another. After riding the triple for about 3 years, she's finally had enough and is going to dump it.

As for compact cranks, I rode a standard Campy crank with 50x39 rings and a 13x36 cassette from 1999 until a few weeks ago. I switched to a '07 Tarmac and replaced the old standard crank with a new Centaur Compact UT crank.

I had a good laugh when the LBS mechanic asked me if I knew that the old bike's front derailleur was rusted in place? I told him yes and that it had happened a few years back, as well. I just never used the 39t. In fact, it looked brand new.

I haven't had any problems with rubbing or needing more or less gear with either bike.


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## DM-SC (Jul 18, 2007)

This thread has got me wondering...Do the people who like compact cranks ride at higher cadences than those who prefer standard cranks?

I ride at 90-110 rpm most of the time though I do ride at slower rpm at times (like on some climbs).


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## ARP (Mar 7, 2002)

*Feedback....*

Since you asked for feedback, I sense some are thinking in the wrong direction. The biggest advantage to having a compact is the # of different inner chainrings you can use to fit your riding level and style and still have a double setup. I started with a 50/34 12-25 cassette. This year I went to a 36T ring, a hell of alot cheaper than buying new cassette, I can go to a 37 or 38 if I want higher gears.


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## 123prs (Jun 19, 2007)

I like my CC. I, too, have been having some problems with the chain rubbing the front derailleur. I figure it is just getting everything adjusted just right. I will try the paddle trick the next time I ride. Thanks for the info.


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## C-40 (Feb 4, 2004)

*shimano??*



DM-SC said:


> Don't tell Paula (my GF) that! It's highly likely that she'd rip her triple crank off her bike and hand it to you! She freakin' hates that thing! She is constantly having to shift back and forth and can never find the right gear. When she does find the right gear, lots of times there's noise of one sort or another. After riding the triple for about 3 years, she's finally had enough and is going to dump it.
> 
> As for compact cranks, I rode a standard Campy crank with 50x39 rings and a 13x36 cassette from 1999 until a few weeks ago. I switched to a '07 Tarmac and replaced the old standard crank with a new Centaur Compact UT crank.
> 
> ...


Sounds like a crappy shimano setup with poor front derailleur trimming ability, plus a lack of undertanding on how and when to shift. A properly setup Campy triple works no differently than a double. You've got total control of the FD with seven clicks, so there should never be any chain rub. With the common 53/39/30 you've got all the same ratios available that any double road bike has, plus three additional low ratios, the lowest a bit lower than a 39/32. I go a step further and use a 28T little ring so I've got four additional low gears, with the lowest equivalent to a 39/35.

I like to spin 75-90 rpm when seated, not mash at 60-70, so the little ring often allows me to be in the same cog and ride at the same speed as some macho rider who "doesn't need" a triple. I particularly enjoy passing up younger riders struggling up a mountain when their 39/27 low gear isn't low enough.


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## Len J (Jan 28, 2004)

*You can't look.......*



DM-SC said:


> This thread has got me wondering...Do the people who like compact cranks ride at higher cadences than those who prefer standard cranks?
> 
> I ride at 90-110 rpm most of the time though I do ride at slower rpm at times (like on some climbs).


at cadence only, you also have to look at what speed people ride at. 100 RPM when riding at 17 - 19 MPH gets you cross chained..........at 16 - 18 you might be fine.

Len

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BORDER-TOP: #ece9d8; BORDER-LEFT: #ece9d8; BORDER-BOTTOM: #ece9d8; BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent"></TD><TD class=xl27 style="BORDER-RIGHT: #ece9d8; BORDER-TOP: #ece9d8; BORDER-LEFT: #ece9d8; BORDER-BOTTOM: #ece9d8; BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent"></TD><TD class=xl27 style="BORDER-RIGHT: #ece9d8; BORDER-TOP: #ece9d8; BORDER-LEFT: #ece9d8; BORDER-BOTTOM: #ece9d8; BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent"></TD><TD class=xl27 style="BORDER-RIGHT: #ece9d8; BORDER-TOP: #ece9d8; BORDER-LEFT: #ece9d8; BORDER-BOTTOM: #ece9d8; BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent"></TD><TD style="BORDER-RIGHT: #ece9d8; BORDER-TOP: #ece9d8; BORDER-LEFT: #ece9d8; BORDER-BOTTOM: #ece9d8; BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent"></TD></TR><TR style="HEIGHT: 17.25pt" height=23><TD class=xl28 style="BORDER-RIGHT: #ece9d8; BORDER-TOP: #ece9d8; BORDER-LEFT: #ece9d8; BORDER-BOTTOM: #ece9d8; HEIGHT: 17.25pt; BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent; mso-ignore: colspan" colSpan=14 height=23>_*With 10-speed 12-13-14-15-16-17-19-21-23-25 Cassette*_</TD></TR><TR style="HEIGHT: 18pt" height=24><TD class=xl29 style="BORDER-RIGHT: #ece9d8; BORDER-TOP: #ece9d8; BORDER-LEFT: #ece9d8; BORDER-BOTTOM: #ece9d8; HEIGHT: 18pt; BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent; mso-ignore: colspan" colSpan=4 height=24>*MPH @ 80 RPM*</TD><TD class=xl31 style="BORDER-RIGHT: #ece9d8; BORDER-TOP: #ece9d8; BORDER-LEFT: #ece9d8; BORDER-BOTTOM: #ece9d8; BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent"></TD><TD class=xl29 style="BORDER-RIGHT: #ece9d8; BORDER-TOP: #ece9d8; BORDER-LEFT: #ece9d8; BORDER-BOTTOM: #ece9d8; BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent; mso-ignore: colspan" colSpan=4>*MPH @ 90 RPM*</TD><TD class=xl31 style="BORDER-RIGHT: #ece9d8; BORDER-TOP: #ece9d8; BORDER-LEFT: #ece9d8; BORDER-BOTTOM: #ece9d8; BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent"></TD><TD class=xl29 style="BORDER-RIGHT: #ece9d8; BORDER-TOP: #ece9d8; BORDER-LEFT: #ece9d8; BORDER-BOTTOM: #ece9d8; BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent; mso-ignore: colspan" colSpan=4>*MPH @ 100 RPM*</TD></TR><TR style="HEIGHT: 12.75pt" height=17><TD class=xl24 style="BORDER-RIGHT: #ece9d8; BORDER-TOP: #ece9d8; BORDER-LEFT: #ece9d8; BORDER-BOTTOM: #ece9d8; HEIGHT: 12.75pt; BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent" height=17></TD><TD style="BORDER-RIGHT: #ece9d8; BORDER-TOP: #ece9d8; BORDER-LEFT: #ece9d8; BORDER-BOTTOM: #ece9d8; BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent"></TD><TD style="BORDER-RIGHT: #ece9d8; BORDER-TOP: #ece9d8; BORDER-LEFT: #ece9d8; BORDER-BOTTOM: #ece9d8; BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent"></TD><TD style="BORDER-RIGHT: #ece9d8; BORDER-TOP: #ece9d8; BORDER-LEFT: #ece9d8; BORDER-BOTTOM: #ece9d8; BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent"></TD><TD style="BORDER-RIGHT: #ece9d8; BORDER-TOP: #ece9d8; BORDER-LEFT: #ece9d8; BORDER-BOTTOM: #ece9d8; BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent"></TD><TD class=xl24 style="BORDER-RIGHT: #ece9d8; BORDER-TOP: #ece9d8; BORDER-LEFT: #ece9d8; BORDER-BOTTOM: #ece9d8; BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent"></TD><TD style="BORDER-RIGHT: #ece9d8; BORDER-TOP: #ece9d8; BORDER-LEFT: #ece9d8; BORDER-BOTTOM: #ece9d8; BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent"></TD><TD style="BORDER-RIGHT: #ece9d8; BORDER-TOP: #ece9d8; BORDER-LEFT: #ece9d8; BORDER-BOTTOM: #ece9d8; BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent"></TD><TD style="BORDER-RIGHT: #ece9d8; BORDER-TOP: #ece9d8; BORDER-LEFT: #ece9d8; BORDER-BOTTOM: #ece9d8; BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent"></TD><TD style="BORDER-RIGHT: #ece9d8; BORDER-TOP: #ece9d8; BORDER-LEFT: #ece9d8; BORDER-BOTTOM: #ece9d8; BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent"></TD><TD class=xl24 style="BORDER-RIGHT: #ece9d8; BORDER-TOP: #ece9d8; BORDER-LEFT: #ece9d8; BORDER-BOTTOM: #ece9d8; BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent"></TD><TD style="BORDER-RIGHT: #ece9d8; BORDER-TOP: #ece9d8; BORDER-LEFT: #ece9d8; BORDER-BOTTOM: #ece9d8; BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent"></TD><TD style="BORDER-RIGHT: #ece9d8; BORDER-TOP: #ece9d8; BORDER-LEFT: #ece9d8; BORDER-BOTTOM: #ece9d8; BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent"></TD><TD style="BORDER-RIGHT: #ece9d8; BORDER-TOP: #ece9d8; BORDER-LEFT: #ece9d8; BORDER-BOTTOM: #ece9d8; BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent"></TD></TR><TR style="HEIGHT: 12.75pt" height=17><TD class=xl25 style="BORDER-RIGHT: black 0.5pt solid; BORDER-TOP: black 0.5pt solid; BORDER-LEFT: black 0.5pt solid; WIDTH: 32pt; BORDER-BOTTOM: black 0.5pt solid; HEIGHT: 12.75pt; BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent" width=43 height=17></TD><TD class=xl26 style="BORDER-RIGHT: black 0.5pt solid; BORDER-TOP: black 0.5pt solid; BORDER-LEFT: black; WIDTH: 30pt; BORDER-BOTTOM: black 0.5pt solid; BACKGROUND-COLOR: yellow" width=40 x:num>*50*</TD><TD class=xl26 style="BORDER-RIGHT: black 0.5pt solid; BORDER-TOP: black 0.5pt solid; BORDER-LEFT: black; WIDTH: 30pt; BORDER-BOTTOM: black 0.5pt solid; BACKGROUND-COLOR: yellow" width=40 x:num>*34*</TD><TD style="BORDER-RIGHT: #ece9d8; BORDER-TOP: #ece9d8; BORDER-LEFT: #ece9d8; BORDER-BOTTOM: #ece9d8; BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent"></TD><TD style="BORDER-RIGHT: #ece9d8; BORDER-TOP: #ece9d8; BORDER-LEFT: #ece9d8; BORDER-BOTTOM: #ece9d8; BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent"></TD><TD class=xl25 style="BORDER-RIGHT: black 0.5pt solid; BORDER-TOP: black 0.5pt solid; BORDER-LEFT: black 0.5pt solid; WIDTH: 32pt; BORDER-BOTTOM: black 0.5pt solid; BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent" width=43></TD><TD class=xl26 style="BORDER-RIGHT: black 0.5pt solid; BORDER-TOP: black 0.5pt solid; BORDER-LEFT: black; WIDTH: 30pt; BORDER-BOTTOM: black 0.5pt solid; BACKGROUND-COLOR: yellow" width=40 x:num>*50*</TD><TD class=xl26 style="BORDER-RIGHT: black 0.5pt solid; BORDER-TOP: black 0.5pt solid; BORDER-LEFT: black; WIDTH: 30pt; BORDER-BOTTOM: black 0.5pt solid; BACKGROUND-COLOR: yellow" width=40 x:num>*34*</TD><TD style="BORDER-RIGHT: #ece9d8; BORDER-TOP: #ece9d8; BORDER-LEFT: #ece9d8; BORDER-BOTTOM: #ece9d8; BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent"></TD><TD style="BORDER-RIGHT: #ece9d8; BORDER-TOP: #ece9d8; BORDER-LEFT: #ece9d8; BORDER-BOTTOM: #ece9d8; BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent"></TD><TD class=xl25 style="BORDER-RIGHT: black 0.5pt solid; BORDER-TOP: black 0.5pt solid; BORDER-LEFT: black 0.5pt solid; WIDTH: 32pt; BORDER-BOTTOM: black 0.5pt solid; BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent" width=43></TD><TD class=xl26 style="BORDER-RIGHT: black 0.5pt solid; BORDER-TOP: black 0.5pt solid; BORDER-LEFT: black; WIDTH: 30pt; BORDER-BOTTOM: black 0.5pt solid; BACKGROUND-COLOR: yellow" width=40 x:num>*50*</TD><TD class=xl26 style="BORDER-RIGHT: black 0.5pt solid; BORDER-TOP: black 0.5pt solid; BORDER-LEFT: black; WIDTH: 30pt; BORDER-BOTTOM: black 0.5pt solid; BACKGROUND-COLOR: yellow" width=40 x:num>*34*</TD><TD style="BORDER-RIGHT: #ece9d8; BORDER-TOP: #ece9d8; BORDER-LEFT: #ece9d8; BORDER-BOTTOM: #ece9d8; BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent"></TD></TR><TR style="HEIGHT: 12.75pt" height=17><TD class=xl26 style="BORDER-RIGHT: black 0.5pt solid; BORDER-TOP: black; BORDER-LEFT: black 0.5pt solid; WIDTH: 32pt; BORDER-BOTTOM: black 0.5pt solid; HEIGHT: 12.75pt; BACKGROUND-COLOR: yellow" width=43 height=17 x:num>*12*</TD><TD class=xl32 style="BORDER-RIGHT: black 0.5pt solid; BORDER-TOP: black; BORDER-LEFT: black; WIDTH: 30pt; BORDER-BOTTOM: black 0.5pt solid; BACKGROUND-COLOR: white" width=40 x:num>*26.1*</TD><TD class=xl32 style="BORDER-RIGHT: black 0.5pt solid; BORDER-TOP: black; BORDER-LEFT: black; WIDTH: 30pt; BORDER-BOTTOM: black 0.5pt solid; BACKGROUND-COLOR: white" width=40 x:num>*17.7*</TD><TD style="BORDER-RIGHT: #ece9d8; BORDER-TOP: #ece9d8; BORDER-LEFT: #ece9d8; BORDER-BOTTOM: #ece9d8; BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent"></TD><TD style="BORDER-RIGHT: #ece9d8; BORDER-TOP: #ece9d8; BORDER-LEFT: #ece9d8; BORDER-BOTTOM: #ece9d8; BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent"></TD><TD class=xl26 style="BORDER-RIGHT: black 0.5pt solid; BORDER-TOP: black; BORDER-LEFT: black 0.5pt solid; WIDTH: 32pt; BORDER-BOTTOM: black 0.5pt solid; BACKGROUND-COLOR: yellow" width=43 x:num>*12*</TD><TD class=xl32 style="BORDER-RIGHT: black 0.5pt solid; BORDER-TOP: black; BORDER-LEFT: black; WIDTH: 30pt; BORDER-BOTTOM: black 0.5pt solid; BACKGROUND-COLOR: white" width=40 x:num>*29.3*</TD><TD class=xl32 style="BORDER-RIGHT: black 0.5pt solid; BORDER-TOP: black; BORDER-LEFT: black; WIDTH: 30pt; BORDER-BOTTOM: black 0.5pt solid; BACKGROUND-COLOR: white" width=40 x:num>*19.9*</TD><TD style="BORDER-RIGHT: #ece9d8; BORDER-TOP: #ece9d8; BORDER-LEFT: #ece9d8; BORDER-BOTTOM: #ece9d8; BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent"></TD><TD style="BORDER-RIGHT: #ece9d8; BORDER-TOP: #ece9d8; BORDER-LEFT: #ece9d8; BORDER-BOTTOM: #ece9d8; BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent"></TD><TD class=xl26 style="BORDER-RIGHT: black 0.5pt solid; BORDER-TOP: black; BORDER-LEFT: black 0.5pt solid; WIDTH: 32pt; BORDER-BOTTOM: black 0.5pt solid; BACKGROUND-COLOR: yellow" width=43 x:num>*12*</TD><TD class=xl32 style="BORDER-RIGHT: black 0.5pt solid; BORDER-TOP: black; BORDER-LEFT: black; WIDTH: 30pt; BORDER-BOTTOM: black 0.5pt solid; BACKGROUND-COLOR: white" width=40 x:num>*32.6*</TD><TD class=xl32 style="BORDER-RIGHT: black 0.5pt solid; BORDER-TOP: black; BORDER-LEFT: black; WIDTH: 30pt; BORDER-BOTTOM: black 0.5pt solid; BACKGROUND-COLOR: white" width=40 x:num>*22.2*</TD><TD style="BORDER-RIGHT: #ece9d8; BORDER-TOP: #ece9d8; BORDER-LEFT: #ece9d8; BORDER-BOTTOM: #ece9d8; BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent"></TD></TR><TR style="HEIGHT: 12.75pt" height=17><TD class=xl26 style="BORDER-RIGHT: black 0.5pt solid; BORDER-TOP: black; BORDER-LEFT: black 0.5pt solid; WIDTH: 32pt; BORDER-BOTTOM: black 0.5pt solid; HEIGHT: 12.75pt; BACKGROUND-COLOR: yellow" width=43 height=17 x:num>*13*</TD><TD class=xl32 style="BORDER-RIGHT: black 0.5pt solid; BORDER-TOP: black; BORDER-LEFT: black; WIDTH: 30pt; BORDER-BOTTOM: black 0.5pt solid; BACKGROUND-COLOR: white" width=40 x:num>*24.1*</TD><TD class=xl32 style="BORDER-RIGHT: black 0.5pt solid; BORDER-TOP: black; BORDER-LEFT: black; WIDTH: 30pt; BORDER-BOTTOM: black 0.5pt solid; BACKGROUND-COLOR: white" width=40 x:num>*16.4*</TD><TD style="BORDER-RIGHT: #ece9d8; BORDER-TOP: #ece9d8; BORDER-LEFT: #ece9d8; BORDER-BOTTOM: #ece9d8; BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent"></TD><TD style="BORDER-RIGHT: #ece9d8; BORDER-TOP: #ece9d8; BORDER-LEFT: #ece9d8; BORDER-BOTTOM: #ece9d8; BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent"></TD><TD class=xl26 style="BORDER-RIGHT: black 0.5pt solid; BORDER-TOP: black; BORDER-LEFT: black 0.5pt solid; WIDTH: 32pt; BORDER-BOTTOM: black 0.5pt solid; BACKGROUND-COLOR: yellow" width=43 x:num>*13*</TD><TD class=xl32 style="BORDER-RIGHT: black 0.5pt solid; BORDER-TOP: black; BORDER-LEFT: black; WIDTH: 30pt; BORDER-BOTTOM: black 0.5pt solid; BACKGROUND-COLOR: white" width=40 x:num>*27.1*</TD><TD class=xl32 style="BORDER-RIGHT: black 0.5pt solid; BORDER-TOP: black; BORDER-LEFT: black; WIDTH: 30pt; BORDER-BOTTOM: black 0.5pt solid; BACKGROUND-COLOR: white" width=40 x:num>*18.4*</TD><TD style="BORDER-RIGHT: #ece9d8; BORDER-TOP: #ece9d8; BORDER-LEFT: #ece9d8; BORDER-BOTTOM: #ece9d8; BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent"></TD><TD style="BORDER-RIGHT: #ece9d8; BORDER-TOP: #ece9d8; BORDER-LEFT: #ece9d8; BORDER-BOTTOM: #ece9d8; BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent"></TD><TD class=xl26 style="BORDER-RIGHT: black 0.5pt solid; BORDER-TOP: black; BORDER-LEFT: black 0.5pt solid; WIDTH: 32pt; BORDER-BOTTOM: black 0.5pt solid; BACKGROUND-COLOR: yellow" width=43 x:num>*13*</TD><TD class=xl32 style="BORDER-RIGHT: black 0.5pt solid; BORDER-TOP: black; BORDER-LEFT: black; WIDTH: 30pt; BORDER-BOTTOM: black 0.5pt solid; BACKGROUND-COLOR: white" width=40 x:num>*30.1*</TD><TD class=xl32 style="BORDER-RIGHT: black 0.5pt solid; BORDER-TOP: black; BORDER-LEFT: black; WIDTH: 30pt; BORDER-BOTTOM: black 0.5pt solid; BACKGROUND-COLOR: white" width=40 x:num>*20.4*</TD><TD style="BORDER-RIGHT: #ece9d8; BORDER-TOP: #ece9d8; BORDER-LEFT: #ece9d8; BORDER-BOTTOM: #ece9d8; BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent"></TD></TR><TR style="HEIGHT: 12.75pt" height=17><TD class=xl26 style="BORDER-RIGHT: black 0.5pt solid; BORDER-TOP: black; BORDER-LEFT: black 0.5pt solid; WIDTH: 32pt; BORDER-BOTTOM: black 0.5pt solid; HEIGHT: 12.75pt; BACKGROUND-COLOR: yellow" width=43 height=17 x:num>*14*</TD><TD class=xl32 style="BORDER-RIGHT: black 0.5pt solid; BORDER-TOP: black; BORDER-LEFT: black; WIDTH: 30pt; BORDER-BOTTOM: black 0.5pt solid; BACKGROUND-COLOR: white" width=40 x:num>*22.3*</TD><TD class=xl32 style="BORDER-RIGHT: black 0.5pt solid; BORDER-TOP: black; BORDER-LEFT: black; WIDTH: 30pt; BORDER-BOTTOM: black 0.5pt solid; BACKGROUND-COLOR: white" width=40 x:num>*15.2*</TD><TD style="BORDER-RIGHT: #ece9d8; BORDER-TOP: #ece9d8; BORDER-LEFT: #ece9d8; BORDER-BOTTOM: #ece9d8; BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent"></TD><TD style="BORDER-RIGHT: #ece9d8; BORDER-TOP: #ece9d8; BORDER-LEFT: #ece9d8; BORDER-BOTTOM: #ece9d8; BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent"></TD><TD class=xl26 style="BORDER-RIGHT: black 0.5pt solid; BORDER-TOP: black; BORDER-LEFT: black 0.5pt solid; WIDTH: 32pt; BORDER-BOTTOM: black 0.5pt solid; BACKGROUND-COLOR: yellow" width=43 x:num>*14*</TD><TD class=xl32 style="BORDER-RIGHT: black 0.5pt solid; BORDER-TOP: black; BORDER-LEFT: black; WIDTH: 30pt; BORDER-BOTTOM: black 0.5pt solid; BACKGROUND-COLOR: white" width=40 x:num>*25.1*</TD><TD class=xl32 style="BORDER-RIGHT: black 0.5pt solid; BORDER-TOP: black; BORDER-LEFT: black; WIDTH: 30pt; BORDER-BOTTOM: black 0.5pt solid; BACKGROUND-COLOR: white" width=40 x:num>*17.1*</TD><TD style="BORDER-RIGHT: #ece9d8; BORDER-TOP: #ece9d8; BORDER-LEFT: #ece9d8; BORDER-BOTTOM: #ece9d8; BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent"></TD><TD style="BORDER-RIGHT: #ece9d8; BORDER-TOP: #ece9d8; BORDER-LEFT: #ece9d8; BORDER-BOTTOM: #ece9d8; BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent"></TD><TD class=xl26 style="BORDER-RIGHT: black 0.5pt solid; BORDER-TOP: black; BORDER-LEFT: black 0.5pt solid; WIDTH: 32pt; BORDER-BOTTOM: black 0.5pt solid; BACKGROUND-COLOR: yellow" width=43 x:num>*14*</TD><TD class=xl32 style="BORDER-RIGHT: black 0.5pt solid; BORDER-TOP: black; BORDER-LEFT: black; WIDTH: 30pt; BORDER-BOTTOM: black 0.5pt solid; BACKGROUND-COLOR: white" width=40 x:num>*27.9*</TD><TD class=xl32 style="BORDER-RIGHT: black 0.5pt solid; BORDER-TOP: black; BORDER-LEFT: black; WIDTH: 30pt; BORDER-BOTTOM: black 0.5pt solid; BACKGROUND-COLOR: white" width=40 x:num>*19.0*</TD><TD style="BORDER-RIGHT: #ece9d8; BORDER-TOP: #ece9d8; BORDER-LEFT: #ece9d8; BORDER-BOTTOM: #ece9d8; BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent"></TD></TR><TR style="HEIGHT: 12.75pt" height=17><TD class=xl26 style="BORDER-RIGHT: black 0.5pt solid; BORDER-TOP: black; BORDER-LEFT: black 0.5pt solid; WIDTH: 32pt; BORDER-BOTTOM: black 0.5pt solid; HEIGHT: 12.75pt; BACKGROUND-COLOR: yellow" width=43 height=17 x:num>*15*</TD><TD class=xl32 style="BORDER-RIGHT: black 0.5pt solid; BORDER-TOP: black; BORDER-LEFT: black; WIDTH: 30pt; BORDER-BOTTOM: black 0.5pt solid; BACKGROUND-COLOR: white" width=40 x:num>*20.8*</TD><TD class=xl32 style="BORDER-RIGHT: black 0.5pt solid; BORDER-TOP: black; BORDER-LEFT: black; WIDTH: 30pt; BORDER-BOTTOM: black 0.5pt solid; BACKGROUND-COLOR: white" width=40 x:num>*14.2*</TD><TD style="BORDER-RIGHT: #ece9d8; BORDER-TOP: #ece9d8; BORDER-LEFT: #ece9d8; BORDER-BOTTOM: #ece9d8; BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent"></TD><TD style="BORDER-RIGHT: #ece9d8; BORDER-TOP: #ece9d8; BORDER-LEFT: #ece9d8; BORDER-BOTTOM: #ece9d8; BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent"></TD><TD class=xl26 style="BORDER-RIGHT: black 0.5pt solid; BORDER-TOP: black; BORDER-LEFT: black 0.5pt solid; WIDTH: 32pt; BORDER-BOTTOM: black 0.5pt solid; BACKGROUND-COLOR: yellow" width=43 x:num>*15*</TD><TD class=xl32 style="BORDER-RIGHT: black 0.5pt solid; BORDER-TOP: black; BORDER-LEFT: black; WIDTH: 30pt; BORDER-BOTTOM: black 0.5pt solid; BACKGROUND-COLOR: white" width=40 x:num>*23.5*</TD><TD class=xl32 style="BORDER-RIGHT: black 0.5pt solid; BORDER-TOP: black; BORDER-LEFT: black; WIDTH: 30pt; BORDER-BOTTOM: black 0.5pt solid; BACKGROUND-COLOR: white" width=40 x:num>*15.9*</TD><TD style="BORDER-RIGHT: #ece9d8; BORDER-TOP: #ece9d8; BORDER-LEFT: #ece9d8; BORDER-BOTTOM: #ece9d8; BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent"></TD><TD style="BORDER-RIGHT: #ece9d8; BORDER-TOP: #ece9d8; BORDER-LEFT: #ece9d8; BORDER-BOTTOM: #ece9d8; BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent"></TD><TD class=xl26 style="BORDER-RIGHT: black 0.5pt solid; BORDER-TOP: black; BORDER-LEFT: black 0.5pt solid; WIDTH: 32pt; BORDER-BOTTOM: black 0.5pt solid; BACKGROUND-COLOR: yellow" width=43 x:num>*15*</TD><TD class=xl32 style="BORDER-RIGHT: black 0.5pt solid; BORDER-TOP: black; BORDER-LEFT: black; WIDTH: 30pt; BORDER-BOTTOM: black 0.5pt solid; BACKGROUND-COLOR: white" width=40 x:num>*26.1*</TD><TD class=xl32 style="BORDER-RIGHT: black 0.5pt solid; BORDER-TOP: black; BORDER-LEFT: black; WIDTH: 30pt; BORDER-BOTTOM: black 0.5pt solid; BACKGROUND-COLOR: white" width=40 x:num>*17.7*</TD><TD style="BORDER-RIGHT: #ece9d8; BORDER-TOP: #ece9d8; BORDER-LEFT: #ece9d8; BORDER-BOTTOM: #ece9d8; BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent"></TD></TR><TR style="HEIGHT: 12.75pt" height=17><TD class=xl26 style="BORDER-RIGHT: black 0.5pt solid; BORDER-TOP: black; BORDER-LEFT: black 0.5pt solid; WIDTH: 32pt; BORDER-BOTTOM: black 0.5pt solid; HEIGHT: 12.75pt; BACKGROUND-COLOR: yellow" width=43 height=17 x:num>*16*</TD><TD class=xl32 style="BORDER-RIGHT: black 0.5pt solid; BORDER-TOP: black; BORDER-LEFT: black; WIDTH: 30pt; BORDER-BOTTOM: black 0.5pt solid; BACKGROUND-COLOR: white" width=40 x:num>*19.5*</TD><TD class=xl32 style="BORDER-RIGHT: black 0.5pt solid; BORDER-TOP: black; BORDER-LEFT: black; WIDTH: 30pt; BORDER-BOTTOM: black 0.5pt solid; BACKGROUND-COLOR: white" width=40 x:num>*13.3*</TD><TD style="BORDER-RIGHT: #ece9d8; BORDER-TOP: #ece9d8; BORDER-LEFT: #ece9d8; BORDER-BOTTOM: #ece9d8; BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent"></TD><TD style="BORDER-RIGHT: #ece9d8; BORDER-TOP: #ece9d8; BORDER-LEFT: #ece9d8; BORDER-BOTTOM: #ece9d8; BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent"></TD><TD class=xl26 style="BORDER-RIGHT: black 0.5pt solid; BORDER-TOP: black; BORDER-LEFT: black 0.5pt solid; WIDTH: 32pt; BORDER-BOTTOM: black 0.5pt solid; BACKGROUND-COLOR: yellow" width=43 x:num>*16*</TD><TD class=xl32 style="BORDER-RIGHT: black 0.5pt solid; BORDER-TOP: black; BORDER-LEFT: black; WIDTH: 30pt; BORDER-BOTTOM: black 0.5pt solid; BACKGROUND-COLOR: white" width=40 x:num>*22.0*</TD><TD class=xl32 style="BORDER-RIGHT: black 0.5pt solid; BORDER-TOP: black; BORDER-LEFT: black; WIDTH: 30pt; BORDER-BOTTOM: black 0.5pt solid; BACKGROUND-COLOR: white" width=40 x:num>*15.0*</TD><TD style="BORDER-RIGHT: #ece9d8; BORDER-TOP: #ece9d8; BORDER-LEFT: #ece9d8; BORDER-BOTTOM: #ece9d8; BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent"></TD><TD style="BORDER-RIGHT: #ece9d8; BORDER-TOP: #ece9d8; BORDER-LEFT: #ece9d8; BORDER-BOTTOM: #ece9d8; BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent"></TD><TD class=xl26 style="BORDER-RIGHT: black 0.5pt solid; BORDER-TOP: black; BORDER-LEFT: black 0.5pt solid; WIDTH: 32pt; BORDER-BOTTOM: black 0.5pt solid; BACKGROUND-COLOR: yellow" width=43 x:num>*16*</TD><TD class=xl32 style="BORDER-RIGHT: black 0.5pt solid; BORDER-TOP: black; BORDER-LEFT: black; WIDTH: 30pt; BORDER-BOTTOM: black 0.5pt solid; BACKGROUND-COLOR: white" width=40 x:num>*24.4*</TD><TD class=xl32 style="BORDER-RIGHT: black 0.5pt solid; BORDER-TOP: black; BORDER-LEFT: black; WIDTH: 30pt; BORDER-BOTTOM: black 0.5pt solid; BACKGROUND-COLOR: white" width=40 x:num>*16.6*</TD><TD style="BORDER-RIGHT: #ece9d8; BORDER-TOP: #ece9d8; BORDER-LEFT: #ece9d8; BORDER-BOTTOM: #ece9d8; BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent"></TD></TR><TR style="HEIGHT: 12.75pt" height=17><TD class=xl26 style="BORDER-RIGHT: black 0.5pt solid; BORDER-TOP: black; BORDER-LEFT: black 0.5pt solid; WIDTH: 32pt; BORDER-BOTTOM: black 0.5pt solid; HEIGHT: 12.75pt; BACKGROUND-COLOR: yellow" width=43 height=17 x:num>*17*</TD><TD class=xl32 style="BORDER-RIGHT: black 0.5pt solid; BORDER-TOP: black; BORDER-LEFT: black; WIDTH: 30pt; BORDER-BOTTOM: black 0.5pt solid; BACKGROUND-COLOR: white" width=40 x:num>*18.4*</TD><TD class=xl32 style="BORDER-RIGHT: black 0.5pt solid; BORDER-TOP: black; BORDER-LEFT: black; WIDTH: 30pt; BORDER-BOTTOM: black 0.5pt solid; BACKGROUND-COLOR: white" width=40 x:num>*12.5*</TD><TD style="BORDER-RIGHT: #ece9d8; BORDER-TOP: #ece9d8; BORDER-LEFT: #ece9d8; BORDER-BOTTOM: #ece9d8; BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent"></TD><TD style="BORDER-RIGHT: #ece9d8; BORDER-TOP: #ece9d8; BORDER-LEFT: #ece9d8; BORDER-BOTTOM: #ece9d8; BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent"></TD><TD class=xl26 style="BORDER-RIGHT: black 0.5pt solid; BORDER-TOP: black; BORDER-LEFT: black 0.5pt solid; WIDTH: 32pt; BORDER-BOTTOM: black 0.5pt solid; BACKGROUND-COLOR: yellow" width=43 x:num>*17*</TD><TD class=xl32 style="BORDER-RIGHT: black 0.5pt solid; BORDER-TOP: black; BORDER-LEFT: black; WIDTH: 30pt; BORDER-BOTTOM: black 0.5pt solid; BACKGROUND-COLOR: white" width=40 x:num>*20.7*</TD><TD class=xl32 style="BORDER-RIGHT: black 0.5pt solid; BORDER-TOP: black; BORDER-LEFT: black; WIDTH: 30pt; BORDER-BOTTOM: black 0.5pt solid; BACKGROUND-COLOR: white" width=40 x:num>*14.1*</TD><TD style="BORDER-RIGHT: #ece9d8; BORDER-TOP: #ece9d8; BORDER-LEFT: #ece9d8; BORDER-BOTTOM: #ece9d8; BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent"></TD><TD style="BORDER-RIGHT: #ece9d8; BORDER-TOP: #ece9d8; BORDER-LEFT: #ece9d8; BORDER-BOTTOM: #ece9d8; BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent"></TD><TD class=xl26 style="BORDER-RIGHT: black 0.5pt solid; BORDER-TOP: black; BORDER-LEFT: black 0.5pt solid; WIDTH: 32pt; BORDER-BOTTOM: black 0.5pt solid; BACKGROUND-COLOR: yellow" width=43 x:num>*17*</TD><TD class=xl32 style="BORDER-RIGHT: black 0.5pt solid; BORDER-TOP: black; BORDER-LEFT: black; WIDTH: 30pt; BORDER-BOTTOM: black 0.5pt solid; BACKGROUND-COLOR: white" width=40 x:num>*23.0*</TD><TD class=xl32 style="BORDER-RIGHT: black 0.5pt solid; BORDER-TOP: black; BORDER-LEFT: black; WIDTH: 30pt; BORDER-BOTTOM: black 0.5pt solid; BACKGROUND-COLOR: white" width=40 x:num>*15.6*</TD><TD style="BORDER-RIGHT: #ece9d8; BORDER-TOP: #ece9d8; BORDER-LEFT: #ece9d8; BORDER-BOTTOM: #ece9d8; BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent"></TD></TR><TR style="HEIGHT: 12.75pt" height=17><TD class=xl26 style="BORDER-RIGHT: black 0.5pt solid; BORDER-TOP: black; BORDER-LEFT: black 0.5pt solid; WIDTH: 32pt; BORDER-BOTTOM: black 0.5pt solid; HEIGHT: 12.75pt; BACKGROUND-COLOR: yellow" width=43 height=17 x:num>*19*</TD><TD class=xl32 style="BORDER-RIGHT: black 0.5pt solid; BORDER-TOP: black; BORDER-LEFT: black; WIDTH: 30pt; BORDER-BOTTOM: black 0.5pt solid; BACKGROUND-COLOR: white" width=40 x:num>*16.5*</TD><TD class=xl32 style="BORDER-RIGHT: black 0.5pt solid; BORDER-TOP: black; BORDER-LEFT: black; WIDTH: 30pt; BORDER-BOTTOM: black 0.5pt solid; BACKGROUND-COLOR: white" width=40 x:num>*11.2*</TD><TD style="BORDER-RIGHT: #ece9d8; BORDER-TOP: #ece9d8; BORDER-LEFT: #ece9d8; BORDER-BOTTOM: #ece9d8; BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent"></TD><TD style="BORDER-RIGHT: #ece9d8; BORDER-TOP: #ece9d8; BORDER-LEFT: #ece9d8; BORDER-BOTTOM: #ece9d8; BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent"></TD><TD class=xl26 style="BORDER-RIGHT: black 0.5pt solid; BORDER-TOP: black; BORDER-LEFT: black 0.5pt solid; WIDTH: 32pt; BORDER-BOTTOM: black 0.5pt solid; BACKGROUND-COLOR: yellow" width=43 x:num>*19*</TD><TD class=xl32 style="BORDER-RIGHT: black 0.5pt solid; BORDER-TOP: black; BORDER-LEFT: black; WIDTH: 30pt; BORDER-BOTTOM: black 0.5pt solid; BACKGROUND-COLOR: white" width=40 x:num>*18.5*</TD><TD class=xl32 style="BORDER-RIGHT: black 0.5pt solid; BORDER-TOP: black; BORDER-LEFT: black; WIDTH: 30pt; BORDER-BOTTOM: black 0.5pt solid; BACKGROUND-COLOR: white" width=40 x:num>*12.6*</TD><TD style="BORDER-RIGHT: #ece9d8; BORDER-TOP: #ece9d8; BORDER-LEFT: #ece9d8; BORDER-BOTTOM: #ece9d8; BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent"></TD><TD style="BORDER-RIGHT: #ece9d8; BORDER-TOP: #ece9d8; BORDER-LEFT: #ece9d8; BORDER-BOTTOM: #ece9d8; BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent"></TD><TD class=xl26 style="BORDER-RIGHT: black 0.5pt solid; BORDER-TOP: black; BORDER-LEFT: black 0.5pt solid; WIDTH: 32pt; BORDER-BOTTOM: black 0.5pt solid; BACKGROUND-COLOR: yellow" width=43 x:num>*19*</TD><TD class=xl32 style="BORDER-RIGHT: black 0.5pt solid; BORDER-TOP: black; BORDER-LEFT: black; WIDTH: 30pt; BORDER-BOTTOM: black 0.5pt solid; BACKGROUND-COLOR: white" width=40 x:num>*20.6*</TD><TD class=xl32 style="BORDER-RIGHT: black 0.5pt solid; BORDER-TOP: black; BORDER-LEFT: black; WIDTH: 30pt; BORDER-BOTTOM: black 0.5pt solid; BACKGROUND-COLOR: white" width=40 x:num>*14.0*</TD><TD style="BORDER-RIGHT: #ece9d8; BORDER-TOP: #ece9d8; BORDER-LEFT: #ece9d8; BORDER-BOTTOM: #ece9d8; BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent"></TD></TR><TR style="HEIGHT: 12.75pt" height=17><TD class=xl26 style="BORDER-RIGHT: black 0.5pt solid; BORDER-TOP: black; BORDER-LEFT: black 0.5pt solid; WIDTH: 32pt; BORDER-BOTTOM: black 0.5pt solid; HEIGHT: 12.75pt; BACKGROUND-COLOR: yellow" width=43 height=17 x:num>*21*</TD><TD class=xl32 style="BORDER-RIGHT: black 0.5pt solid; BORDER-TOP: black; BORDER-LEFT: black; WIDTH: 30pt; BORDER-BOTTOM: black 0.5pt solid; BACKGROUND-COLOR: white" width=40 x:num>*14.9*</TD><TD class=xl32 style="BORDER-RIGHT: black 0.5pt solid; BORDER-TOP: black; BORDER-LEFT: black; WIDTH: 30pt; BORDER-BOTTOM: black 0.5pt solid; BACKGROUND-COLOR: white" width=40 x:num>*10.1*</TD><TD style="BORDER-RIGHT: #ece9d8; BORDER-TOP: #ece9d8; BORDER-LEFT: #ece9d8; BORDER-BOTTOM: #ece9d8; BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent"></TD><TD style="BORDER-RIGHT: #ece9d8; BORDER-TOP: #ece9d8; BORDER-LEFT: #ece9d8; BORDER-BOTTOM: #ece9d8; BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent"></TD><TD class=xl26 style="BORDER-RIGHT: black 0.5pt solid; BORDER-TOP: black; BORDER-LEFT: black 0.5pt solid; WIDTH: 32pt; BORDER-BOTTOM: black 0.5pt solid; BACKGROUND-COLOR: yellow" width=43 x:num>*21*</TD><TD class=xl32 style="BORDER-RIGHT: black 0.5pt solid; BORDER-TOP: black; BORDER-LEFT: black; WIDTH: 30pt; BORDER-BOTTOM: black 0.5pt solid; BACKGROUND-COLOR: white" width=40 x:num>*16.8*</TD><TD class=xl32 style="BORDER-RIGHT: black 0.5pt solid; BORDER-TOP: black; BORDER-LEFT: black; WIDTH: 30pt; BORDER-BOTTOM: black 0.5pt solid; BACKGROUND-COLOR: white" width=40 x:num>*11.4*</TD><TD style="BORDER-RIGHT: #ece9d8; BORDER-TOP: #ece9d8; BORDER-LEFT: #ece9d8; BORDER-BOTTOM: #ece9d8; BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent"></TD><TD style="BORDER-RIGHT: #ece9d8; BORDER-TOP: #ece9d8; BORDER-LEFT: #ece9d8; BORDER-BOTTOM: #ece9d8; BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent"></TD><TD class=xl26 style="BORDER-RIGHT: black 0.5pt solid; BORDER-TOP: black; BORDER-LEFT: black 0.5pt solid; WIDTH: 32pt; BORDER-BOTTOM: black 0.5pt solid; BACKGROUND-COLOR: yellow" width=43 x:num>*21*</TD><TD class=xl32 style="BORDER-RIGHT: black 0.5pt solid; BORDER-TOP: black; BORDER-LEFT: black; WIDTH: 30pt; BORDER-BOTTOM: black 0.5pt solid; BACKGROUND-COLOR: white" width=40 x:num>*18.6*</TD><TD class=xl32 style="BORDER-RIGHT: black 0.5pt solid; BORDER-TOP: black; BORDER-LEFT: black; WIDTH: 30pt; BORDER-BOTTOM: black 0.5pt solid; BACKGROUND-COLOR: white" width=40 x:num>*12.7*</TD><TD style="BORDER-RIGHT: #ece9d8; BORDER-TOP: #ece9d8; BORDER-LEFT: #ece9d8; BORDER-BOTTOM: #ece9d8; BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent"></TD></TR><TR style="HEIGHT: 12.75pt" height=17><TD class=xl26 style="BORDER-RIGHT: black 0.5pt solid; BORDER-TOP: black; BORDER-LEFT: black 0.5pt solid; WIDTH: 32pt; BORDER-BOTTOM: black 0.5pt solid; HEIGHT: 12.75pt; BACKGROUND-COLOR: yellow" width=43 height=17 x:num>*23*</TD><TD class=xl32 style="BORDER-RIGHT: black 0.5pt solid; BORDER-TOP: black; BORDER-LEFT: black; WIDTH: 30pt; BORDER-BOTTOM: black 0.5pt solid; BACKGROUND-COLOR: white" width=40 x:num>*13.6*</TD><TD class=xl32 style="BORDER-RIGHT: black 0.5pt solid; BORDER-TOP: black; BORDER-LEFT: black; WIDTH: 30pt; BORDER-BOTTOM: black 0.5pt solid; BACKGROUND-COLOR: white" width=40 x:num>*9.2*</TD><TD style="BORDER-RIGHT: #ece9d8; BORDER-TOP: #ece9d8; BORDER-LEFT: #ece9d8; BORDER-BOTTOM: #ece9d8; BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent"></TD><TD style="BORDER-RIGHT: #ece9d8; BORDER-TOP: #ece9d8; BORDER-LEFT: #ece9d8; BORDER-BOTTOM: #ece9d8; BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent"></TD><TD class=xl26 style="BORDER-RIGHT: black 0.5pt solid; BORDER-TOP: black; BORDER-LEFT: black 0.5pt solid; WIDTH: 32pt; BORDER-BOTTOM: black 0.5pt solid; BACKGROUND-COLOR: yellow" width=43 x:num>*23*</TD><TD class=xl32 style="BORDER-RIGHT: black 0.5pt solid; BORDER-TOP: black; BORDER-LEFT: black; WIDTH: 30pt; BORDER-BOTTOM: black 0.5pt solid; BACKGROUND-COLOR: white" width=40 x:num>*15.3*</TD><TD class=xl32 style="BORDER-RIGHT: black 0.5pt solid; BORDER-TOP: black; BORDER-LEFT: black; WIDTH: 30pt; BORDER-BOTTOM: black 0.5pt solid; BACKGROUND-COLOR: white" width=40 x:num>*10.4*</TD><TD style="BORDER-RIGHT: #ece9d8; BORDER-TOP: #ece9d8; BORDER-LEFT: #ece9d8; BORDER-BOTTOM: #ece9d8; BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent"></TD><TD style="BORDER-RIGHT: #ece9d8; BORDER-TOP: #ece9d8; BORDER-LEFT: #ece9d8; BORDER-BOTTOM: #ece9d8; BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent"></TD><TD class=xl26 style="BORDER-RIGHT: black 0.5pt solid; BORDER-TOP: black; BORDER-LEFT: black 0.5pt solid; WIDTH: 32pt; BORDER-BOTTOM: black 0.5pt solid; BACKGROUND-COLOR: yellow" width=43 x:num>*23*</TD><TD class=xl32 style="BORDER-RIGHT: black 0.5pt solid; BORDER-TOP: black; BORDER-LEFT: black; WIDTH: 30pt; BORDER-BOTTOM: black 0.5pt solid; BACKGROUND-COLOR: white" width=40 x:num>*17.0*</TD><TD class=xl32 style="BORDER-RIGHT: black 0.5pt solid; BORDER-TOP: black; BORDER-LEFT: black; WIDTH: 30pt; BORDER-BOTTOM: black 0.5pt solid; BACKGROUND-COLOR: white" width=40 x:num>*11.6*</TD><TD style="BORDER-RIGHT: #ece9d8; BORDER-TOP: #ece9d8; BORDER-LEFT: #ece9d8; BORDER-BOTTOM: #ece9d8; BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent"></TD></TR><TR style="HEIGHT: 12.75pt" height=17><TD class=xl26 style="BORDER-RIGHT: black 0.5pt solid; BORDER-TOP: black; BORDER-LEFT: black 0.5pt solid; WIDTH: 32pt; BORDER-BOTTOM: black 0.5pt solid; HEIGHT: 12.75pt; BACKGROUND-COLOR: yellow" width=43 height=17 x:num>*25*</TD><TD class=xl32 style="BORDER-RIGHT: black 0.5pt solid; BORDER-TOP: black; BORDER-LEFT: black; WIDTH: 30pt; BORDER-BOTTOM: black 0.5pt solid; BACKGROUND-COLOR: white" width=40 x:num>*12.5*</TD><TD class=xl32 style="BORDER-RIGHT: black 0.5pt solid; BORDER-TOP: black; BORDER-LEFT: black; WIDTH: 30pt; BORDER-BOTTOM: black 0.5pt solid; BACKGROUND-COLOR: white" width=40 x:num>*8.5*</TD><TD style="BORDER-RIGHT: #ece9d8; BORDER-TOP: #ece9d8; BORDER-LEFT: #ece9d8; BORDER-BOTTOM: #ece9d8; BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent"></TD><TD style="BORDER-RIGHT: #ece9d8; BORDER-TOP: #ece9d8; BORDER-LEFT: #ece9d8; BORDER-BOTTOM: #ece9d8; BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent"></TD><TD class=xl26 style="BORDER-RIGHT: black 0.5pt solid; BORDER-TOP: black; BORDER-LEFT: black 0.5pt solid; WIDTH: 32pt; BORDER-BOTTOM: black 0.5pt solid; BACKGROUND-COLOR: yellow" width=43 x:num>*25*</TD><TD class=xl32 style="BORDER-RIGHT: black 0.5pt solid; BORDER-TOP: black; BORDER-LEFT: black; WIDTH: 30pt; BORDER-BOTTOM: black 0.5pt solid; BACKGROUND-COLOR: white" width=40 x:num>*14.1*</TD><TD class=xl32 style="BORDER-RIGHT: black 0.5pt solid; BORDER-TOP: black; BORDER-LEFT: black; WIDTH: 30pt; BORDER-BOTTOM: black 0.5pt solid; BACKGROUND-COLOR: white" width=40 x:num>*9.6*</TD><TD style="BORDER-RIGHT: #ece9d8; BORDER-TOP: #ece9d8; BORDER-LEFT: #ece9d8; BORDER-BOTTOM: #ece9d8; BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent"></TD><TD style="BORDER-RIGHT: #ece9d8; BORDER-TOP: #ece9d8; BORDER-LEFT: #ece9d8; BORDER-BOTTOM: #ece9d8; BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent"></TD><TD class=xl26 style="BORDER-RIGHT: black 0.5pt solid; BORDER-TOP: black; BORDER-LEFT: black 0.5pt solid; WIDTH: 32pt; BORDER-BOTTOM: black 0.5pt solid; BACKGROUND-COLOR: yellow" width=43 x:num>*25*</TD><TD class=xl32 style="BORDER-RIGHT: black 0.5pt solid; BORDER-TOP: black; BORDER-LEFT: black; WIDTH: 30pt; BORDER-BOTTOM: black 0.5pt solid; BACKGROUND-COLOR: white" width=40 x:num>*15.6*</TD><TD class=xl32 style="BORDER-RIGHT: black 0.5pt solid; BORDER-TOP: black; BORDER-LEFT: black; WIDTH: 30pt; BORDER-BOTTOM: black 0.5pt solid; BACKGROUND-COLOR: white" width=40 x:num>*10.6*</TD><TD style="BORDER-RIGHT: #ece9d8; BORDER-TOP: #ece9d8; BORDER-LEFT: #ece9d8; BORDER-BOTTOM: #ece9d8; BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent"></TD></TR><TR style="HEIGHT: 12.75pt" height=17><TD style="BORDER-RIGHT: #ece9d8; BORDER-TOP: #ece9d8; BORDER-LEFT: #ece9d8; BORDER-BOTTOM: #ece9d8; HEIGHT: 12.75pt; BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent" height=17></TD><TD style="BORDER-RIGHT: #ece9d8; BORDER-TOP: #ece9d8; BORDER-LEFT: #ece9d8; BORDER-BOTTOM: #ece9d8; BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent"></TD><TD style="BORDER-RIGHT: #ece9d8; BORDER-TOP: #ece9d8; BORDER-LEFT: #ece9d8; BORDER-BOTTOM: #ece9d8; BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent"></TD><TD style="BORDER-RIGHT: #ece9d8; BORDER-TOP: #ece9d8; BORDER-LEFT: #ece9d8; BORDER-BOTTOM: #ece9d8; BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent"></TD><TD style="BORDER-RIGHT: #ece9d8; BORDER-TOP: #ece9d8; BORDER-LEFT: #ece9d8; BORDER-BOTTOM: #ece9d8; BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent"></TD><TD style="BORDER-RIGHT: #ece9d8; BORDER-TOP: #ece9d8; BORDER-LEFT: #ece9d8; BORDER-BOTTOM: #ece9d8; BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent"></TD><TD style="BORDER-RIGHT: #ece9d8; BORDER-TOP: #ece9d8; BORDER-LEFT: #ece9d8; BORDER-BOTTOM: #ece9d8; BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent"></TD><TD style="BORDER-RIGHT: #ece9d8; BORDER-TOP: #ece9d8; BORDER-LEFT: #ece9d8; BORDER-BOTTOM: #ece9d8; BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent"></TD><TD style="BORDER-RIGHT: #ece9d8; BORDER-TOP: #ece9d8; BORDER-LEFT: #ece9d8; BORDER-BOTTOM: #ece9d8; BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent"></TD><TD style="BORDER-RIGHT: #ece9d8; BORDER-TOP: #ece9d8; BORDER-LEFT: #ece9d8; BORDER-BOTTOM: #ece9d8; BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent"></TD><TD style="BORDER-RIGHT: #ece9d8; BORDER-TOP: #ece9d8; BORDER-LEFT: #ece9d8; BORDER-BOTTOM: #ece9d8; BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent"></TD><TD style="BORDER-RIGHT: #ece9d8; BORDER-TOP: #ece9d8; BORDER-LEFT: #ece9d8; BORDER-BOTTOM: #ece9d8; BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent"></TD><TD style="BORDER-RIGHT: #ece9d8; BORDER-TOP: #ece9d8; BORDER-LEFT: #ece9d8; BORDER-BOTTOM: #ece9d8; BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent"></TD><TD style="BORDER-RIGHT: #ece9d8; BORDER-TOP: #ece9d8; BORDER-LEFT: #ece9d8; BORDER-BOTTOM: #ece9d8; BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent"></TD></TR><TR style="HEIGHT: 18pt" height=24><TD class=xl29 style="BORDER-RIGHT: #ece9d8; BORDER-TOP: #ece9d8; BORDER-LEFT: #ece9d8; BORDER-BOTTOM: #ece9d8; HEIGHT: 18pt; BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent; mso-ignore: colspan" colSpan=4 height=24>*MPH @ 80 RPM*</TD><TD class=xl31 style="BORDER-RIGHT: #ece9d8; BORDER-TOP: #ece9d8; BORDER-LEFT: #ece9d8; BORDER-BOTTOM: #ece9d8; BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent"></TD><TD class=xl29 style="BORDER-RIGHT: #ece9d8; BORDER-TOP: #ece9d8; BORDER-LEFT: #ece9d8; BORDER-BOTTOM: #ece9d8; BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent; mso-ignore: colspan" colSpan=4>*MPH @ 90 RPM*</TD><TD class=xl31 style="BORDER-RIGHT: #ece9d8; BORDER-TOP: #ece9d8; BORDER-LEFT: #ece9d8; BORDER-BOTTOM: #ece9d8; BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent"></TD><TD class=xl29 style="BORDER-RIGHT: #ece9d8; BORDER-TOP: #ece9d8; BORDER-LEFT: #ece9d8; BORDER-BOTTOM: #ece9d8; BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent; mso-ignore: colspan" colSpan=4>*MPH @ 100 RPM*</TD></TR><TR style="HEIGHT: 12.75pt" height=17><TD class=xl24 style="BORDER-RIGHT: #ece9d8; BORDER-TOP: #ece9d8; BORDER-LEFT: #ece9d8; BORDER-BOTTOM: #ece9d8; HEIGHT: 12.75pt; BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent" height=17></TD><TD style="BORDER-RIGHT: #ece9d8; BORDER-TOP: #ece9d8; BORDER-LEFT: #ece9d8; BORDER-BOTTOM: #ece9d8; BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent"></TD><TD style="BORDER-RIGHT: #ece9d8; BORDER-TOP: #ece9d8; BORDER-LEFT: #ece9d8; BORDER-BOTTOM: #ece9d8; BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent"></TD><TD style="BORDER-RIGHT: #ece9d8; BORDER-TOP: #ece9d8; BORDER-LEFT: #ece9d8; BORDER-BOTTOM: #ece9d8; BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent"></TD><TD style="BORDER-RIGHT: #ece9d8; BORDER-TOP: #ece9d8; BORDER-LEFT: #ece9d8; BORDER-BOTTOM: #ece9d8; BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent"></TD><TD class=xl24 style="BORDER-RIGHT: #ece9d8; BORDER-TOP: #ece9d8; BORDER-LEFT: #ece9d8; BORDER-BOTTOM: #ece9d8; BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent"></TD><TD style="BORDER-RIGHT: #ece9d8; BORDER-TOP: #ece9d8; BORDER-LEFT: #ece9d8; BORDER-BOTTOM: #ece9d8; BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent"></TD><TD style="BORDER-RIGHT: #ece9d8; BORDER-TOP: #ece9d8; BORDER-LEFT: #ece9d8; BORDER-BOTTOM: #ece9d8; BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent"></TD><TD style="BORDER-RIGHT: #ece9d8; BORDER-TOP: #ece9d8; BORDER-LEFT: #ece9d8; BORDER-BOTTOM: #ece9d8; BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent"></TD><TD style="BORDER-RIGHT: #ece9d8; BORDER-TOP: #ece9d8; BORDER-LEFT: #ece9d8; BORDER-BOTTOM: #ece9d8; BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent"></TD><TD class=xl24 style="BORDER-RIGHT: #ece9d8; BORDER-TOP: #ece9d8; BORDER-LEFT: #ece9d8; BORDER-BOTTOM: #ece9d8; BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent"></TD><TD style="BORDER-RIGHT: #ece9d8; BORDER-TOP: #ece9d8; BORDER-LEFT: #ece9d8; BORDER-BOTTOM: #ece9d8; BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent"></TD><TD style="BORDER-RIGHT: #ece9d8; BORDER-TOP: #ece9d8; BORDER-LEFT: #ece9d8; BORDER-BOTTOM: #ece9d8; BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent"></TD><TD style="BORDER-RIGHT: #ece9d8; BORDER-TOP: #ece9d8; BORDER-LEFT: #ece9d8; BORDER-BOTTOM: #ece9d8; BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent"></TD></TR><TR style="HEIGHT: 12.75pt" height=17><TD class=xl25 style="BORDER-RIGHT: black 0.5pt solid; BORDER-TOP: black 0.5pt solid; BORDER-LEFT: black 0.5pt solid; WIDTH: 32pt; BORDER-BOTTOM: black 0.5pt solid; HEIGHT: 12.75pt; BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent" width=43 height=17></TD><TD class=xl26 style="BORDER-RIGHT: black 0.5pt solid; BORDER-TOP: black 0.5pt solid; BORDER-LEFT: black; WIDTH: 30pt; BORDER-BOTTOM: black 0.5pt solid; BACKGROUND-COLOR: yellow" width=40 x:num>*50*</TD><TD class=xl26 style="BORDER-RIGHT: black 0.5pt solid; BORDER-TOP: black 0.5pt solid; BORDER-LEFT: black; WIDTH: 30pt; BORDER-BOTTOM: black 0.5pt solid; BACKGROUND-COLOR: yellow" width=40 x:num>*39*</TD><TD class=xl26 style="BORDER-RIGHT: black 0.5pt solid; BORDER-TOP: black 0.5pt solid; BORDER-LEFT: black; WIDTH: 28pt; BORDER-BOTTOM: black 0.5pt solid; BACKGROUND-COLOR: yellow" width=37 x:num>*28*</TD><TD style="BORDER-RIGHT: #ece9d8; BORDER-TOP: #ece9d8; BORDER-LEFT: #ece9d8; BORDER-BOTTOM: #ece9d8; BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent"></TD><TD class=xl25 style="BORDER-RIGHT: black 0.5pt solid; BORDER-TOP: black 0.5pt solid; BORDER-LEFT: black 0.5pt solid; WIDTH: 32pt; BORDER-BOTTOM: black 0.5pt solid; BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent" width=43></TD><TD class=xl26 style="BORDER-RIGHT: black 0.5pt solid; BORDER-TOP: black 0.5pt solid; BORDER-LEFT: black; WIDTH: 30pt; BORDER-BOTTOM: black 0.5pt solid; BACKGROUND-COLOR: yellow" width=40 x:num>*50*</TD><TD class=xl26 style="BORDER-RIGHT: black 0.5pt solid; BORDER-TOP: black 0.5pt solid; BORDER-LEFT: black; WIDTH: 30pt; BORDER-BOTTOM: black 0.5pt solid; BACKGROUND-COLOR: yellow" width=40 x:num>*39*</TD><TD class=xl26 style="BORDER-RIGHT: black 0.5pt solid; BORDER-TOP: black 0.5pt solid; BORDER-LEFT: black; WIDTH: 28pt; BORDER-BOTTOM: black 0.5pt solid; BACKGROUND-COLOR: yellow" width=37 x:num>*28*</TD><TD style="BORDER-RIGHT: #ece9d8; BORDER-TOP: #ece9d8; BORDER-LEFT: #ece9d8; BORDER-BOTTOM: #ece9d8; BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent"></TD><TD class=xl25 style="BORDER-RIGHT: black 0.5pt solid; BORDER-TOP: black 0.5pt solid; BORDER-LEFT: black 0.5pt solid; WIDTH: 32pt; BORDER-BOTTOM: black 0.5pt solid; BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent" width=43></TD><TD class=xl26 style="BORDER-RIGHT: black 0.5pt solid; BORDER-TOP: black 0.5pt solid; BORDER-LEFT: black; WIDTH: 30pt; BORDER-BOTTOM: black 0.5pt solid; BACKGROUND-COLOR: yellow" width=40 x:num>*50*</TD><TD class=xl26 style="BORDER-RIGHT: black 0.5pt solid; BORDER-TOP: black 0.5pt solid; BORDER-LEFT: black; WIDTH: 30pt; BORDER-BOTTOM: black 0.5pt solid; BACKGROUND-COLOR: yellow" width=40 x:num>*39*</TD><TD class=xl26 style="BORDER-RIGHT: black 0.5pt solid; BORDER-TOP: black 0.5pt solid; BORDER-LEFT: black; WIDTH: 28pt; BORDER-BOTTOM: black 0.5pt solid; BACKGROUND-COLOR: yellow" width=37 x:num>*28*</TD></TR><TR style="HEIGHT: 12.75pt" height=17><TD class=xl26 style="BORDER-RIGHT: black 0.5pt solid; BORDER-TOP: black; BORDER-LEFT: black 0.5pt solid; WIDTH: 32pt; BORDER-BOTTOM: black 0.5pt solid; HEIGHT: 12.75pt; BACKGROUND-COLOR: yellow" width=43 height=17 x:num>*12*</TD><TD class=xl32 style="BORDER-RIGHT: black 0.5pt solid; BORDER-TOP: black; BORDER-LEFT: black; WIDTH: 30pt; BORDER-BOTTOM: black 0.5pt solid; BACKGROUND-COLOR: white" width=40 x:num>*26.1*</TD><TD class=xl32 style="BORDER-RIGHT: black 0.5pt solid; BORDER-TOP: black; BORDER-LEFT: black; WIDTH: 30pt; BORDER-BOTTOM: black 0.5pt solid; BACKGROUND-COLOR: white" width=40 x:num>*20.3*</TD><TD class=xl32 style="BORDER-RIGHT: black 0.5pt solid; BORDER-TOP: black; BORDER-LEFT: black; WIDTH: 28pt; BORDER-BOTTOM: black 0.5pt solid; BACKGROUND-COLOR: white" width=37 x:num>*14.6*</TD><TD style="BORDER-RIGHT: #ece9d8; BORDER-TOP: #ece9d8; BORDER-LEFT: #ece9d8; BORDER-BOTTOM: #ece9d8; BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent"></TD><TD class=xl26 style="BORDER-RIGHT: black 0.5pt solid; BORDER-TOP: black; BORDER-LEFT: black 0.5pt solid; WIDTH: 32pt; BORDER-BOTTOM: black 0.5pt solid; BACKGROUND-COLOR: yellow" width=43 x:num>*12*</TD><TD class=xl32 style="BORDER-RIGHT: black 0.5pt solid; BORDER-TOP: black; BORDER-LEFT: black; WIDTH: 30pt; BORDER-BOTTOM: black 0.5pt solid; BACKGROUND-COLOR: white" width=40 x:num>*29.3*</TD><TD class=xl32 style="BORDER-RIGHT: black 0.5pt solid; BORDER-TOP: black; BORDER-LEFT: black; WIDTH: 30pt; BORDER-BOTTOM: black 0.5pt solid; BACKGROUND-COLOR: white" width=40 x:num>*22.9*</TD><TD class=xl32 style="BORDER-RIGHT: black 0.5pt solid; BORDER-TOP: black; BORDER-LEFT: black; WIDTH: 28pt; BORDER-BOTTOM: black 0.5pt solid; BACKGROUND-COLOR: white" width=37 x:num>*16.4*</TD><TD style="BORDER-RIGHT: #ece9d8; BORDER-TOP: #ece9d8; BORDER-LEFT: #ece9d8; BORDER-BOTTOM: #ece9d8; BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent"></TD><TD class=xl26 style="BORDER-RIGHT: black 0.5pt solid; BORDER-TOP: black; BORDER-LEFT: black 0.5pt solid; WIDTH: 32pt; BORDER-BOTTOM: black 0.5pt solid; BACKGROUND-COLOR: yellow" width=43 x:num>*12*</TD><TD class=xl32 style="BORDER-RIGHT: black 0.5pt solid; BORDER-TOP: black; BORDER-LEFT: black; WIDTH: 30pt; BORDER-BOTTOM: black 0.5pt solid; BACKGROUND-COLOR: white" width=40 x:num>*32.6*</TD><TD class=xl32 style="BORDER-RIGHT: black 0.5pt solid; BORDER-TOP: black; BORDER-LEFT: black; WIDTH: 30pt; BORDER-BOTTOM: black 0.5pt solid; BACKGROUND-COLOR: white" width=40 x:num>*25.4*</TD><TD class=xl32 style="BORDER-RIGHT: black 0.5pt solid; BORDER-TOP: black; BORDER-LEFT: black; WIDTH: 28pt; BORDER-BOTTOM: black 0.5pt solid; BACKGROUND-COLOR: white" width=37 x:num>*18.2*</TD></TR><TR style="HEIGHT: 12.75pt" height=17><TD class=xl26 style="BORDER-RIGHT: black 0.5pt solid; BORDER-TOP: black; BORDER-LEFT: black 0.5pt solid; WIDTH: 32pt; BORDER-BOTTOM: black 0.5pt solid; HEIGHT: 12.75pt; BACKGROUND-COLOR: yellow" width=43 height=17 x:num>*13*</TD><TD class=xl32 style="BORDER-RIGHT: black 0.5pt solid; BORDER-TOP: black; BORDER-LEFT: black; WIDTH: 30pt; BORDER-BOTTOM: black 0.5pt solid; BACKGROUND-COLOR: white" width=40 x:num>*24.1*</TD><TD class=xl32 style="BORDER-RIGHT: black 0.5pt solid; BORDER-TOP: black; BORDER-LEFT: black; WIDTH: 30pt; BORDER-BOTTOM: black 0.5pt solid; BACKGROUND-COLOR: white" width=40 x:num>*18.8*</TD><TD class=xl32 style="BORDER-RIGHT: black 0.5pt solid; BORDER-TOP: black; BORDER-LEFT: black; WIDTH: 28pt; BORDER-BOTTOM: black 0.5pt solid; BACKGROUND-COLOR: white" width=37 x:num>*13.5*</TD><TD style="BORDER-RIGHT: #ece9d8; BORDER-TOP: #ece9d8; BORDER-LEFT: #ece9d8; BORDER-BOTTOM: #ece9d8; BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent"></TD><TD class=xl26 style="BORDER-RIGHT: black 0.5pt solid; BORDER-TOP: black; BORDER-LEFT: black 0.5pt solid; WIDTH: 32pt; BORDER-BOTTOM: black 0.5pt solid; BACKGROUND-COLOR: yellow" width=43 x:num>*13*</TD><TD class=xl32 style="BORDER-RIGHT: black 0.5pt solid; BORDER-TOP: black; BORDER-LEFT: black; WIDTH: 30pt; BORDER-BOTTOM: black 0.5pt solid; BACKGROUND-COLOR: white" width=40 x:num>*27.1*</TD><TD class=xl32 style="BORDER-RIGHT: black 0.5pt solid; BORDER-TOP: black; BORDER-LEFT: black; WIDTH: 30pt; BORDER-BOTTOM: black 0.5pt solid; BACKGROUND-COLOR: white" width=40 x:num>*21.1*</TD><TD class=xl32 style="BORDER-RIGHT: black 0.5pt solid; BORDER-TOP: black; BORDER-LEFT: black; WIDTH: 28pt; BORDER-BOTTOM: black 0.5pt solid; BACKGROUND-COLOR: white" width=37 x:num>*15.2*</TD><TD style="BORDER-RIGHT: #ece9d8; BORDER-TOP: #ece9d8; BORDER-LEFT: #ece9d8; BORDER-BOTTOM: #ece9d8; BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent"></TD><TD class=xl26 style="BORDER-RIGHT: black 0.5pt solid; BORDER-TOP: black; BORDER-LEFT: black 0.5pt solid; WIDTH: 32pt; BORDER-BOTTOM: black 0.5pt solid; BACKGROUND-COLOR: yellow" width=43 x:num>*13*</TD><TD class=xl32 style="BORDER-RIGHT: black 0.5pt solid; BORDER-TOP: black; BORDER-LEFT: black; WIDTH: 30pt; BORDER-BOTTOM: black 0.5pt solid; BACKGROUND-COLOR: white" width=40 x:num>*30.1*</TD><TD class=xl32 style="BORDER-RIGHT: black 0.5pt solid; BORDER-TOP: black; BORDER-LEFT: black; WIDTH: 30pt; BORDER-BOTTOM: black 0.5pt solid; BACKGROUND-COLOR: white" width=40 x:num>*23.5*</TD><TD class=xl32 style="BORDER-RIGHT: black 0.5pt solid; BORDER-TOP: black; BORDER-LEFT: black; WIDTH: 28pt; BORDER-BOTTOM: black 0.5pt solid; BACKGROUND-COLOR: white" width=37 x:num>*16.8*</TD></TR><TR style="HEIGHT: 12.75pt" height=17><TD class=xl26 style="BORDER-RIGHT: black 0.5pt solid; BORDER-TOP: black; BORDER-LEFT: black 0.5pt solid; WIDTH: 32pt; BORDER-BOTTOM: black 0.5pt solid; HEIGHT: 12.75pt; BACKGROUND-COLOR: yellow" width=43 height=17 x:num>*14*</TD><TD class=xl32 style="BORDER-RIGHT: black 0.5pt solid; BORDER-TOP: black; BORDER-LEFT: black; WIDTH: 30pt; BORDER-BOTTOM: black 0.5pt solid; BACKGROUND-COLOR: white" width=40 x:num>*22.3*</TD><TD class=xl32 style="BORDER-RIGHT: black 0.5pt solid; BORDER-TOP: black; BORDER-LEFT: black; WIDTH: 30pt; BORDER-BOTTOM: black 0.5pt solid; BACKGROUND-COLOR: white" width=40 x:num>*17.4*</TD><TD class=xl32 style="BORDER-RIGHT: black 0.5pt solid; BORDER-TOP: black; BORDER-LEFT: black; WIDTH: 28pt; BORDER-BOTTOM: black 0.5pt solid; BACKGROUND-COLOR: white" width=37 x:num>*12.5*</TD><TD style="BORDER-RIGHT: #ece9d8; BORDER-TOP: #ece9d8; BORDER-LEFT: #ece9d8; BORDER-BOTTOM: #ece9d8; BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent"></TD><TD class=xl26 style="BORDER-RIGHT: black 0.5pt solid; BORDER-TOP: black; BORDER-LEFT: black 0.5pt solid; WIDTH: 32pt; BORDER-BOTTOM: black 0.5pt solid; BACKGROUND-COLOR: yellow" width=43 x:num>*14*</TD><TD class=xl32 style="BORDER-RIGHT: black 0.5pt solid; BORDER-TOP: black; BORDER-LEFT: black; WIDTH: 30pt; BORDER-BOTTOM: black 0.5pt solid; BACKGROUND-COLOR: white" width=40 x:num>*25.1*</TD><TD class=xl32 style="BORDER-RIGHT: black 0.5pt solid; BORDER-TOP: black; BORDER-LEFT: black; WIDTH: 30pt; BORDER-BOTTOM: black 0.5pt solid; BACKGROUND-COLOR: white" width=40 x:num>*19.6*</TD><TD class=xl32 style="BORDER-RIGHT: black 0.5pt solid; BORDER-TOP: black; BORDER-LEFT: black; WIDTH: 28pt; BORDER-BOTTOM: black 0.5pt solid; BACKGROUND-COLOR: white" width=37 x:num>*14.1*</TD><TD style="BORDER-RIGHT: #ece9d8; BORDER-TOP: #ece9d8; BORDER-LEFT: #ece9d8; BORDER-BOTTOM: #ece9d8; BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent"></TD><TD class=xl26 style="BORDER-RIGHT: black 0.5pt solid; BORDER-TOP: black; BORDER-LEFT: black 0.5pt solid; WIDTH: 32pt; BORDER-BOTTOM: black 0.5pt solid; BACKGROUND-COLOR: yellow" width=43 x:num>*14*</TD><TD class=xl32 style="BORDER-RIGHT: black 0.5pt solid; BORDER-TOP: black; BORDER-LEFT: black; WIDTH: 30pt; BORDER-BOTTOM: black 0.5pt solid; BACKGROUND-COLOR: white" width=40 x:num>*27.9*</TD><TD class=xl32 style="BORDER-RIGHT: black 0.5pt solid; BORDER-TOP: black; BORDER-LEFT: black; WIDTH: 30pt; BORDER-BOTTOM: black 0.5pt solid; BACKGROUND-COLOR: white" width=40 x:num>*21.8*</TD><TD class=xl32 style="BORDER-RIGHT: black 0.5pt solid; BORDER-TOP: black; BORDER-LEFT: black; WIDTH: 28pt; BORDER-BOTTOM: black 0.5pt solid; BACKGROUND-COLOR: white" width=37 x:num>*15.6*</TD></TR><TR style="HEIGHT: 12.75pt" height=17><TD class=xl26 style="BORDER-RIGHT: black 0.5pt solid; BORDER-TOP: black; BORDER-LEFT: black 0.5pt solid; WIDTH: 32pt; BORDER-BOTTOM: black 0.5pt solid; HEIGHT: 12.75pt; BACKGROUND-COLOR: yellow" width=43 height=17 x:num>*15*</TD><TD class=xl32 style="BORDER-RIGHT: black 0.5pt solid; BORDER-TOP: black; BORDER-LEFT: black; WIDTH: 30pt; BORDER-BOTTOM: black 0.5pt solid; BACKGROUND-COLOR: white" width=40 x:num>*20.8*</TD><TD class=xl32 style="BORDER-RIGHT: black 0.5pt solid; BORDER-TOP: black; BORDER-LEFT: black; WIDTH: 30pt; BORDER-BOTTOM: black 0.5pt solid; BACKGROUND-COLOR: white" width=40 x:num>*16.3*</TD><TD class=xl32 style="BORDER-RIGHT: black 0.5pt solid; BORDER-TOP: black; BORDER-LEFT: black; WIDTH: 28pt; BORDER-BOTTOM: black 0.5pt solid; BACKGROUND-COLOR: white" width=37 x:num>*11.7*</TD><TD style="BORDER-RIGHT: #ece9d8; BORDER-TOP: #ece9d8; BORDER-LEFT: #ece9d8; BORDER-BOTTOM: #ece9d8; BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent"></TD><TD class=xl26 style="BORDER-RIGHT: black 0.5pt solid; BORDER-TOP: black; BORDER-LEFT: black 0.5pt solid; WIDTH: 32pt; BORDER-BOTTOM: black 0.5pt solid; BACKGROUND-COLOR: yellow" width=43 x:num>*15*</TD><TD class=xl32 style="BORDER-RIGHT: black 0.5pt solid; BORDER-TOP: black; BORDER-LEFT: black; WIDTH: 30pt; BORDER-BOTTOM: black 0.5pt solid; BACKGROUND-COLOR: white" width=40 x:num>*23.5*</TD><TD class=xl32 style="BORDER-RIGHT: black 0.5pt solid; BORDER-TOP: black; BORDER-LEFT: black; WIDTH: 30pt; BORDER-BOTTOM: black 0.5pt solid; BACKGROUND-COLOR: white" width=40 x:num>*18.3*</TD><TD class=xl32 style="BORDER-RIGHT: black 0.5pt solid; BORDER-TOP: black; BORDER-LEFT: black; WIDTH: 28pt; BORDER-BOTTOM: black 0.5pt solid; BACKGROUND-COLOR: white" width=37 x:num>*13.1*</TD><TD style="BORDER-RIGHT: #ece9d8; BORDER-TOP: #ece9d8; BORDER-LEFT: #ece9d8; BORDER-BOTTOM: #ece9d8; BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent"></TD><TD class=xl26 style="BORDER-RIGHT: black 0.5pt solid; BORDER-TOP: black; BORDER-LEFT: black 0.5pt solid; WIDTH: 32pt; BORDER-BOTTOM: black 0.5pt solid; BACKGROUND-COLOR: yellow" width=43 x:num>*15*</TD><TD class=xl32 style="BORDER-RIGHT: black 0.5pt solid; BORDER-TOP: black; BORDER-LEFT: black; WIDTH: 30pt; BORDER-BOTTOM: black 0.5pt solid; BACKGROUND-COLOR: white" width=40 x:num>*26.1*</TD><TD class=xl32 style="BORDER-RIGHT: black 0.5pt solid; BORDER-TOP: black; BORDER-LEFT: black; WIDTH: 30pt; BORDER-BOTTOM: black 0.5pt solid; BACKGROUND-COLOR: white" width=40 x:num>*20.3*</TD><TD class=xl32 style="BORDER-RIGHT: black 0.5pt solid; BORDER-TOP: black; BORDER-LEFT: black; WIDTH: 28pt; BORDER-BOTTOM: black 0.5pt solid; BACKGROUND-COLOR: white" width=37 x:num>*14.6*</TD></TR><TR style="HEIGHT: 12.75pt" height=17><TD class=xl26 style="BORDER-RIGHT: black 0.5pt solid; BORDER-TOP: black; BORDER-LEFT: black 0.5pt solid; WIDTH: 32pt; BORDER-BOTTOM: black 0.5pt solid; HEIGHT: 12.75pt; BACKGROUND-COLOR: yellow" width=43 height=17 x:num>*16*</TD><TD class=xl32 style="BORDER-RIGHT: black 0.5pt solid; BORDER-TOP: black; BORDER-LEFT: black; WIDTH: 30pt; BORDER-BOTTOM: black 0.5pt solid; BACKGROUND-COLOR: white" width=40 x:num>*19.5*</TD><TD class=xl32 style="BORDER-RIGHT: black 0.5pt solid; BORDER-TOP: black; BORDER-LEFT: black; WIDTH: 30pt; BORDER-BOTTOM: black 0.5pt solid; BACKGROUND-COLOR: white" width=40 x:num>*15.2*</TD><TD class=xl32 style="BORDER-RIGHT: black 0.5pt solid; BORDER-TOP: black; BORDER-LEFT: black; WIDTH: 28pt; BORDER-BOTTOM: black 0.5pt solid; BACKGROUND-COLOR: white" width=37 x:num>*10.9*</TD><TD style="BORDER-RIGHT: #ece9d8; BORDER-TOP: #ece9d8; BORDER-LEFT: #ece9d8; BORDER-BOTTOM: #ece9d8; BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent"></TD><TD class=xl26 style="BORDER-RIGHT: black 0.5pt solid; BORDER-TOP: black; BORDER-LEFT: black 0.5pt solid; WIDTH: 32pt; BORDER-BOTTOM: black 0.5pt solid; BACKGROUND-COLOR: yellow" width=43 x:num>*16*</TD><TD class=xl32 style="BORDER-RIGHT: black 0.5pt solid; BORDER-TOP: black; BORDER-LEFT: black; WIDTH: 30pt; BORDER-BOTTOM: black 0.5pt solid; BACKGROUND-COLOR: white" width=40 x:num>*22.0*</TD><TD class=xl32 style="BORDER-RIGHT: black 0.5pt solid; BORDER-TOP: black; BORDER-LEFT: black; WIDTH: 30pt; BORDER-BOTTOM: black 0.5pt solid; BACKGROUND-COLOR: white" width=40 x:num>*17.2*</TD><TD class=xl32 style="BORDER-RIGHT: black 0.5pt solid; BORDER-TOP: black; BORDER-LEFT: black; WIDTH: 28pt; BORDER-BOTTOM: black 0.5pt solid; BACKGROUND-COLOR: white" width=37 x:num>*12.3*</TD><TD style="BORDER-RIGHT: #ece9d8; BORDER-TOP: #ece9d8; BORDER-LEFT: #ece9d8; BORDER-BOTTOM: #ece9d8; BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent"></TD><TD class=xl26 style="BORDER-RIGHT: black 0.5pt solid; BORDER-TOP: black; BORDER-LEFT: black 0.5pt solid; WIDTH: 32pt; BORDER-BOTTOM: black 0.5pt solid; BACKGROUND-COLOR: yellow" width=43 x:num>*16*</TD><TD class=xl32 style="BORDER-RIGHT: black 0.5pt solid; BORDER-TOP: black; BORDER-LEFT: black; WIDTH: 30pt; BORDER-BOTTOM: black 0.5pt solid; BACKGROUND-COLOR: white" width=40 x:num>*24.4*</TD><TD class=xl32 style="BORDER-RIGHT: black 0.5pt solid; BORDER-TOP: black; BORDER-LEFT: black; WIDTH: 30pt; BORDER-BOTTOM: black 0.5pt solid; BACKGROUND-COLOR: white" width=40 x:num>*19.1*</TD><TD class=xl32 style="BORDER-RIGHT: black 0.5pt solid; BORDER-TOP: black; BORDER-LEFT: black; WIDTH: 28pt; BORDER-BOTTOM: black 0.5pt solid; BACKGROUND-COLOR: white" width=37 x:num>*13.7*</TD></TR><TR style="HEIGHT: 12.75pt" height=17><TD class=xl26 style="BORDER-RIGHT: black 0.5pt solid; BORDER-TOP: black; BORDER-LEFT: black 0.5pt solid; WIDTH: 32pt; BORDER-BOTTOM: black 0.5pt solid; HEIGHT: 12.75pt; BACKGROUND-COLOR: yellow" width=43 height=17 x:num>*17*</TD><TD class=xl32 style="BORDER-RIGHT: black 0.5pt solid; BORDER-TOP: black; BORDER-LEFT: black; WIDTH: 30pt; BORDER-BOTTOM: black 0.5pt solid; BACKGROUND-COLOR: white" width=40 x:num>*18.4*</TD><TD class=xl32 style="BORDER-RIGHT: black 0.5pt solid; BORDER-TOP: black; BORDER-LEFT: black; WIDTH: 30pt; BORDER-BOTTOM: black 0.5pt solid; BACKGROUND-COLOR: white" width=40 x:num>*14.3*</TD><TD class=xl32 style="BORDER-RIGHT: black 0.5pt solid; BORDER-TOP: black; BORDER-LEFT: black; WIDTH: 28pt; BORDER-BOTTOM: black 0.5pt solid; BACKGROUND-COLOR: white" width=37 x:num>*10.3*</TD><TD style="BORDER-RIGHT: #ece9d8; BORDER-TOP: #ece9d8; BORDER-LEFT: #ece9d8; BORDER-BOTTOM: #ece9d8; BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent"></TD><TD class=xl26 style="BORDER-RIGHT: black 0.5pt solid; BORDER-TOP: black; BORDER-LEFT: black 0.5pt solid; WIDTH: 32pt; BORDER-BOTTOM: black 0.5pt solid; BACKGROUND-COLOR: yellow" width=43 x:num>*17*</TD><TD class=xl32 style="BORDER-RIGHT: black 0.5pt solid; BORDER-TOP: black; BORDER-LEFT: black; WIDTH: 30pt; BORDER-BOTTOM: black 0.5pt solid; BACKGROUND-COLOR: white" width=40 x:num>*20.7*</TD><TD class=xl32 style="BORDER-RIGHT: black 0.5pt solid; BORDER-TOP: black; BORDER-LEFT: black; WIDTH: 30pt; BORDER-BOTTOM: black 0.5pt solid; BACKGROUND-COLOR: white" width=40 x:num>*16.1*</TD><TD class=xl32 style="BORDER-RIGHT: black 0.5pt solid; BORDER-TOP: black; BORDER-LEFT: black; WIDTH: 28pt; BORDER-BOTTOM: black 0.5pt solid; BACKGROUND-COLOR: white" width=37 x:num>*11.6*</TD><TD style="BORDER-RIGHT: #ece9d8; BORDER-TOP: #ece9d8; BORDER-LEFT: #ece9d8; BORDER-BOTTOM: #ece9d8; BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent"></TD><TD class=xl26 style="BORDER-RIGHT: black 0.5pt solid; BORDER-TOP: black; BORDER-LEFT: black 0.5pt solid; WIDTH: 32pt; BORDER-BOTTOM: black 0.5pt solid; BACKGROUND-COLOR: yellow" width=43 x:num>*17*</TD><TD class=xl32 style="BORDER-RIGHT: black 0.5pt solid; BORDER-TOP: black; BORDER-LEFT: black; WIDTH: 30pt; BORDER-BOTTOM: black 0.5pt solid; BACKGROUND-COLOR: white" width=40 x:num>*23.0*</TD><TD class=xl32 style="BORDER-RIGHT: black 0.5pt solid; BORDER-TOP: black; BORDER-LEFT: black; WIDTH: 30pt; BORDER-BOTTOM: black 0.5pt solid; BACKGROUND-COLOR: white" width=40 x:num>*17.9*</TD><TD class=xl32 style="BORDER-RIGHT: black 0.5pt solid; BORDER-TOP: black; BORDER-LEFT: black; WIDTH: 28pt; BORDER-BOTTOM: black 0.5pt solid; BACKGROUND-COLOR: white" width=37 x:num>*12.9*</TD></TR><TR style="HEIGHT: 12.75pt" height=17><TD class=xl26 style="BORDER-RIGHT: black 0.5pt solid; BORDER-TOP: black; BORDER-LEFT: black 0.5pt solid; WIDTH: 32pt; BORDER-BOTTOM: black 0.5pt solid; HEIGHT: 12.75pt; BACKGROUND-COLOR: yellow" width=43 height=17 x:num>*19*</TD><TD class=xl32 style="BORDER-RIGHT: black 0.5pt solid; BORDER-TOP: black; BORDER-LEFT: black; WIDTH: 30pt; BORDER-BOTTOM: black 0.5pt solid; BACKGROUND-COLOR: white" width=40 x:num>*16.5*</TD><TD class=xl32 style="BORDER-RIGHT: black 0.5pt solid; 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BORDER-TOP: black; BORDER-LEFT: black 0.5pt solid; WIDTH: 32pt; BORDER-BOTTOM: black 0.5pt solid; BACKGROUND-COLOR: yellow" width=43 x:num>*21*</TD><TD class=xl32 style="BORDER-RIGHT: black 0.5pt solid; BORDER-TOP: black; BORDER-LEFT: black; WIDTH: 30pt; BORDER-BOTTOM: black 0.5pt solid; BACKGROUND-COLOR: white" width=40 x:num>*18.6*</TD><TD class=xl32 style="BORDER-RIGHT: black 0.5pt solid; BORDER-TOP: black; BORDER-LEFT: black; WIDTH: 30pt; BORDER-BOTTOM: black 0.5pt solid; BACKGROUND-COLOR: white" width=40 x:num>*14.5*</TD><TD class=xl32 style="BORDER-RIGHT: black 0.5pt solid; BORDER-TOP: black; BORDER-LEFT: black; WIDTH: 28pt; BORDER-BOTTOM: black 0.5pt solid; BACKGROUND-COLOR: white" width=37 x:num>*10.4*</TD></TR><TR style="HEIGHT: 12.75pt" height=17><TD class=xl26 style="BORDER-RIGHT: black 0.5pt solid; BORDER-TOP: black; BORDER-LEFT: black 0.5pt solid; WIDTH: 32pt; BORDER-BOTTOM: black 0.5pt solid; HEIGHT: 12.75pt; BACKGROUND-COLOR: yellow" width=43 height=17 x:num>*23*</TD><TD class=xl32 style="BORDER-RIGHT: black 0.5pt solid; 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## fishman473 (Aug 2, 2004)

DM-SC said:


> This thread has got me wondering...Do the people who like compact cranks ride at higher cadences than those who prefer standard cranks?
> 
> I ride at 90-110 rpm most of the time though I do ride at slower rpm at times (like on some climbs).


That's why I was first drawn to them. I tend to spin comfortably around 94rpm. The compact cranks fit my riding style well.


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## fishman473 (Aug 2, 2004)

Saltybiker said:


> I have the Shimano one with an 11-25 and am happy. No shifting complaints, and could not climb without it. LBS said Shimano was the only one to go with.
> Not trying to stir up a Campy thing as it would not have been an option on my otherwise Shimano bike.


I run Campy Chorus compact ultra-torque cranks on an otherwise all Shimano DA drivetrain. The combo shifts flawlessly, very quickly. My only complaints are:

1) I have to choose between the chain falling off once every month or two when shifting to the small chainring or a very tiny amount of rubbing in the 34 ring and largest, 23 tooth, cog. I just let it rub a wee bit, no big deal either way.

2) The jump between 50 and 34 is *HUGE* requiring 3-4 shifts in back to off-set it. Come next racing season I would rather run a 50/36. Does anyone know if I can simply buy a 36 tooth small ring for this campy crankset and be good to go?


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## iliveonnitro (Feb 19, 2006)

I have a 50/34 with FSA cranks. I'm not going to comment on FSA's shitty gossamer cranks.

I wouldn't recommend the gearing. I usually spin 100-105rpm. There is a big jump in the cassette when you shift the front.


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## danl1 (Jul 23, 2005)

Dunno. I have an FSA compact and have full use of the cassette (not that I do, of course). Only the slightest tinkle from the big ring in a small-small cross. Sounds like something else is amiss in your setup.

Another thing is that you seem very used to shifting, almost as if you feel the need to get into '1st gear' at every stop light. Riders that have been around since before brifter levers (and fixie riders in the current day) know that you just hammer on in what you've got. Unless you're going up a 5% or more grade (or fighting a 30mph headwind) there's not much reason to be anywhere but the 50 ring.

Everyone badmouths cross-chaining, and when things get to rubbin', it is a bad thing. But it's not as bad as it used to be - the narrow 10s chains are much more flexible than the older, wider chains were, so there's not as much loss from the lesser crosses. Compacts are designed to take advantage of this flexibility, and so to spend more time in the big ring - even if that pushes the big-big cross a little bit. 

All that said, I can see how some folks don't like 'em. Folks living in the mountains probably want the wider range of a triple, and the real flatlanders like yourself may as well have a conventional setup and a corncob (or better yet, save the trouble, expense, and weight, and get fixed!) But those of us that live where hills are rarely more than a few hundred vertical feet but insist on getting you there 12% straitght through? A compact makes a fair bit of sense.


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## Taskmaxter (Apr 11, 2004)

I just switched out from a 53/38 to a Shimano R700 compact 50/34 and really like it so far. I do a lot of riding in the hills and I notice it helps immensely. I notice that the shifting up/down between rings is excellent (lots of ramping) and is very clean. Haven't had any problems at all with de-railer noise/issues.


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## z ken (Dec 30, 2006)

how funny is that every time someone post a note, it's more positive then negative. just a thought.


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## brentster (Jul 12, 2007)

I REALLY appreciate everyone's feedback - especially that gearing chart. With the crappy weather we're having in Houston, I've only ridden the bike ONE time since I got it on Tuesday. That ride was in the center of town with a 15 person group and lots of stop signs. I imagine out in the suburbs where there's no stopping and starting, I won't even notice the difference. I'll figure these CC's out, or else Ebay them.

Thanks again and have a great weekend.


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## z ken (Dec 30, 2006)

bren: glad you're alright but i heard another big one is approaching Texas, right?? yikes!!


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## shabbasuraj (May 14, 2005)

I have to admit... I HATE every compact crank I have tried..... barf.


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## bretterb (Jan 3, 2007)

I've got a Giant OCR A1 with a compact... I like it so far. I've ridden about 200 miles in the last 2 weeks on it (with many big hills). However, my previous bike was a hybrid/flat-bar road bike with something inbetween mountain and road gearing (triple), so I really appreciate the smaller ring.

I DO have the same problem though...I can't use my two biggest rear gears when on the front big gear and I can't use my two smallest rear gears when on the front small gear, due to FD rubbing.

-Brett


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## HikenBike (Apr 3, 2007)

I like my compact crank.

I originally had a triple, and the shifting was horrible! I basically adjusted the the FD to handle the two bigger rings. I didn't even use the smaller one.

I swapped it out with a FSA compact carbon pro. It took me some experience to learn the best way to shift between the 50 and 34. The shifting compared to the triple, is night and day better. Plus, the compact ways much less.

I ride a lot in the mountains, so this is the best solution for my needs. If I lived in Houston, I probably would not go with a compact.

FYI - My highest gear is the 50/12, and I spin out at @ 32 mph. I can live with that.

I plan on getting a new bike with the Rival compact in a few months. I'll see how that compares to the FSA.


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## RedRex (Oct 24, 2004)

I ride ultras in the mountains of California. Shimano's compact 50/34 with 12/27 *and* an Ultegra TRIPLE rear derailler has been...

oh...


...so...


SWEET.


I rode 39/27 up and down the ranges in CA, but once I started increasing the distances to 200+ miles, I found I wanted a few more gears without a triple crankset. The 50/34, 12/27 combo pushed my rear derailler to it's capacity so I had slack while crossed, and figured rather than try and avoid those gears (hard to do on an overnight ride) I would just put a triple rear derailler on there and it is FRIGGIN NICE. Ridden three doubles on it and it shifts like a dream.

I agree with the comment above about less shifting. I commute on a fixie m-f so honestly I don't shift very much at flat stoplights etc when on my geared bikes. It helps (I believe) with overall ability/strength to shift less in flats and stops.


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## Mdeth1313 (Nov 1, 2001)

Based on what the OP described, was anyone going to suggest adjusting the limit screws on the FD?
If the chain is dropping when switching rings, its more likely a FD alignment issue or a chainring issue. 
Perhaps chainline?

I'm running an FSA compact (50/34) w/ zero shifting issues-- it took a bit of adjusting the FD, but not much. If you use the LBS and they do all the adjustments on the workstand in the shop, but dont test ride it on the road, that's a problem as well. May not rub on the stand, but when you step on the pedals and apply force, the frame/cranks/etc flex.

Its well worth your time to lean to adjust your derailleurs- beats leaving the bike at the shop.


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## 123prs (Jun 19, 2007)

I have played with all of the adjustments and I still have the chair rub when I am on the large chain ring and in the two highest gears I presently have an Ultegra front derailleur. I will be switching to a DA to see if that makes a difference. It really shouldn't, but who knows. The bike came with FSA and DA, but the previous owner took all of the DA off to put on another bike. I am restoring the bike to full DA, with the exception of the CC.


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## RedRex (Oct 24, 2004)

*"I still have the chair rub when I am on the large chain ring and in the two highest gears"*


That sounds like a common symptom of crossing the chain to me. A chainring doesn't get all the cogs.


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## Slartibartfast (Jul 22, 2007)

This has become a hugely informative thread. Thanks to all for the info. My conclusion is CCs have their place in my cycling repertoire. Someone in this thread or a similar currently active RBR thread said that CCs are tools, like many other cycling components, that a rider uses based on their riding situation. I agree, and I see a 50/36 - 11/23 (or 11/25) in my future. I just wish it were DuraAce! :cryin: :mad2:


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## z ken (Dec 30, 2006)

fougas: you could buy 50 teeth outer chain from either Stronglight or FSA for about $ 30 and 34 inner chain ring for another $ 30 and replace both rings with your current D/A 53th and 39th rings. or you could buy Shimano's 50 teeth outer ring from Competive cyclist for $ 120 so you won't have problem shifting and won't loose any stiffness. i did and couldn't be hapier.


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## Zwane (Jun 30, 2006)

arcspin said:


> *hehe* Going tripple is like giving up, coing comapct is a more subtle way of doing the same.
> 
> Jokes aside, even pros are going for compact, Danillo Di Luca used 34/29 on Mt Zoncolan in this years Giro (I used 34/27) Am I a better rider because of that? I don't think so


From a maintenance point of view it's simpler to do a compact crank switch instead of a triple.


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## Lectron (May 29, 2005)

Wrote this some time ago. That's my opinion


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## Lectron (May 29, 2005)

Well OK. Here it is. copied and pasted

What’s the best all round crankset if you’re only to have one. Defiantly the triple. You have the 30(32T) for climbing, the 53 for drafting and flats and the 42T for everything in between. So. Where does that leave the compact and the semi compact 39-53. Lets have a look.










The 53 and 50 are still good for flats, but the 34? Mostly climbing or recreational rides. You can of course put on an 11-? cassette, but using that 11 would be cross-chaining, and most cassettes are pretty much the same except for the three upper cogs, meaning whatever cassette you put on it only changes the lighter gears of the 34 chainring. Also. Going down in chainring makes the gears come closer together.

For a compact you’ll be in need of a compact (custom) cassette with a much more linear increase of teeth between the cogs to get a full use of it. Then we might be able to talk about benefits of the compact crank design, but even then I would say that a triple would be better or at least make use of a far smaller ‘big ring’ to get a bigger overlap and avoid forced front derailing around 28-32 km/h. 

So what’s my conclusion. Compact’s probably here to stay ‘cause the bike industry need something to hype and a few people might benefit of it, but if you want something that really works you should take a look at your cadence and speed intervals and pick your chainrings from there. You’d probably get away with just changing the chainrings of your existing 130BCD crank arms.


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## rogger (Aug 19, 2005)

z ken said:


> fougas: you could buy 50 teeth outer chain from either Stronglight or FSA for about $ 30 and 34 inner chain ring for another $ 30 and replace both rings with your current D/A 53th and 39th rings. or you could buy Shimano's 50 teeth outer ring from Competive cyclist for $ 120 so you won't have problem shifting and won't loose any stiffness. i did and couldn't be hapier.


Forget it. You won't be able to fit anything smaller than a 38 ring on a 130mm BCD crank.


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## mandovoodoo (Aug 27, 2005)

I've ridden normal old doubles (42-52), new doubles (39-53), triples (30-42-52; 30 46-50; etc), and a couple of different compacts. I can't see any universal means of comparing these. As a poster above indicated: "Folks living in the mountains probably want the wider range of a triple, and the real flatlanders like yourself may as well have a conventional setup and a corncob." Yup. Carrying weight up long climbs and then riding mixed terrain, a triple is great. That's when I really needed the range and lots of gear combinations. And in the flat areas, I used to ride corncob and just hump the few hills. 

Where I am now, mostly I'm in "hills are rarely more than a few hundred vertical feet but insist on getting you there 12% straitght through[.]"

The compact took me a long time to get used to. With modern 10spd rear ends I have lots of gears. I won't run a full cross shift anyway. I use the compact quite differently than I would a non-compact system. This took a long time to get ingrained. Before that, the compact was horrible for me, but I could see the advantages if I could get it working. And the shifting system has to be top notch, very well and precisely adjusted. 

In normal use, I'm on the big chainring for nearly level. Hitting a bigger hill I drop to the lower chainring and sweep the rear brifter. Gets me within 1 gear of where I want to be. Topping out, unless I'm in a very low cog, I pop up to the big ring and let gravity pull me up to speed. 

So. I have to maintain perfect adjustment. Adapt my riding style to allow wider cadence range during shifts. Remember how to shift multiple gears at once. Avoid extreme crosses. In return, I get a wider range and lighter setup. For the terrain I'm in, this is perfect. The usual "big" climb is 900 ft. A couple of 4500' climbs around. Usually just rolling terrain with 60 to 150 ft bumps. Works great. The long climbs could use more finely spaced climbing gears. The longer gentler along strike runs could use a standard double. 

Now. The weird thing here is why anyone would care what other people use enough to become pointed and obnoxious. I can tell where the problem is, and it isn't with the compact cranks. 

Uniform cadence spinners won't like them.
People who can't or won't adjust things won't like them.
People running cheap stuff that doesn't work as well won't like them.
People in mountains won't like them.
People in flatlands won't like them.

People who adjust things very carefully, ride in hilly broken country, have a wide cadence range, shift well, and don't ride in cross shifts may well like them. 

They're much easier to use than non-index downtube systems requiring constant double shifting to step up or down one gear. I used to do that with one hand. Drop to the inside chainring and bump the rear up a cog simultaneously. 

I don't see the industry "hyping" these things, just meeting a need. Certainly those who like gear charts and this and that, or are willing to use a wide range cogset will find plenty of standard double combinations they like. Others will like the wide range and closer cogset approach of the compact. For example, my wife are very well matched in range, speed, and power. I can always get more speed, but that cuts my effective range pretty fast. So we ride together without any effort. We both have 12-27 cogsets. She rides 170 mm DA w/39-53. Climbs everything just fine. I ride 172.5 mm cranks w/ 34-50. She climbs on the 23 or 25 mostly, with one reserve gear. I climb in the middle of the cogset, with lots of reserve gears for getting tired or the steep ones. She gets chainrings she uses in the flats all the time. I get a big ring for most of the time, and finely spaced cogs for normal climbing, plus loafing/bailout/steep gears. Until I read this thread I hadn't considered that anyone would think that one or the other of us had a "better" setup. We just have different setups.


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## Sablotny (Aug 15, 2002)

*I need gears - good to read all this*

I had a 53/39/30 DA triple on my Schwinn Homegrown. It got me up any climb I wanted, but I felt the shame from the older/harder core roadies. The front shift could also be a PITA at times. Now I've got a Colnago Dream HX with a DA53/39 & 12-27. I told myself this would just force me to get into better shape, but its easier said than done. 

I've done a local ride the last two weekends in a row- after 26 miles of flat, you hit a 7 mile climb averaging 4-5%. Then you tackle the ridge, 3 miles at +/-10%, peaking at 21%. It totally destroys me, and I'm not sure if I'm getting stronger or on the verge of a heart attack. Option 1- an IRD 10 speed mountain cassette. But I've heard they don't shift well and make a lot of noise. Option 2 is a compact crank, and its sounding better all the time. Think I'll look into the Ultegra SL...


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## Wookiebiker (Sep 5, 2005)

Lectron said:


> Well OK. Here it is. copied and pasted
> 
> What’s the best all round crankset if you’re only to have one. Defiantly the triple. You have the 30(32T) for climbing, the 53 for drafting and flats and the 42T for everything in between. So. Where does that leave the compact and the semi compact 39-53. Lets have a look.
> 
> ...



So what you are saying is because it doesn't work for you it's not a good idea and is just industry hype?  

I always love how people justify why something doesn't work and isn't needed, but for the vast majority of people it not only works well but is the best option.

I run a 48x34 set up with a 12x27 in the back. I guess I must be a very weak rider by comparison to just about anybody on this board. 

However, I have no problem staying with and pulling along one of the faster groups in our group rides. I have no problem spinning up to 42 mph with a 48x12 gear, I have no problem when the climbing gets really steep, no problems with shifting, dropping chains or any of the problems people mention about the negative drawbacks of a compact set up.

The really funny part is when I hear somebody say they need a 53x11 for the downhills. That one cracks me up every time. I have yet to be beat down a descent with my 48x12 and I ride with lots of people that run 53x11's. If you are going faster than 42 mph you might as well be in a tuck and not pedaling anyway.....It's faster.

The simple and *"True" *fact is that compact cranks do work for a lot of people and is a better option than a 53x39 set up. It's not *"Hype"* it's using what works best for you and not *"what other people tell you that you need"*.


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## Len J (Jan 28, 2004)

*This is a keeper........*



mandovoodoo said:


> I've ridden normal old doubles (42-52), new doubles (39-53), triples (30-42-52; 30 46-50; etc), and a couple of different compacts. I can't see any universal means of comparing these. As a poster above indicated: "Folks living in the mountains probably want the wider range of a triple, and the real flatlanders like yourself may as well have a conventional setup and a corncob." Yup. Carrying weight up long climbs and then riding mixed terrain, a triple is great. That's when I really needed the range and lots of gear combinations. And in the flat areas, I used to ride corncob and just hump the few hills.
> 
> Where I am now, mostly I'm in "hills are rarely more than a few hundred vertical feet but insist on getting you there 12% straitght through[.]"
> 
> ...


Best post of this thread.

Thanks

Len


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## Lectron (May 29, 2005)

Wookiebiker said:


> So what you are saying is because it doesn't work for you it's not a good idea and is just industry hype?
> 
> I always love how people justify why something doesn't work and isn't needed, but for the vast majority of people it not only works well but is the best option.
> 
> ...


.....but if you want something that really works you should take a look at your cadence and speed intervals and pick your chainrings from there. You’d probably get away with just changing the chainrings of your existing 130BCD crank arms........

What I'm saying is: What about using what's between your ears.
Go out and spend money on new cranksets or change a chain-ring
Whatever works for you........


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## Bontrager (Feb 7, 2006)

I don't think you need compact in Houston. If you go west towards the New Ulm area you might. A little more west beyond Austin and you will.

I had a Trek 1000 triple and never used the smallest chainring. Got a new bike with Ultegra regular double and was fine. Now I'm and kansas city wishing I had a compact (12-25 no I get only 1 more effective lower gear if I change my cassette to ultegra 12-27).


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## DIRT BOY (Aug 22, 2002)

*Just so you know FSA's K-Force LIGHT "compacts"*

also come in a 52/38T rings if you want more standard sizing.

So it's nothing to do with the bolt pattern, but maybe bad choices in your chainring toth size.


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## RowRonin (Jan 1, 2006)

Wookiebiker said:


> I run a 48x34 set up with a 12x27 in the back. I guess I must be a very weak rider by comparison to just about anybody on this board.


Wookie,

I read a post of your's 3 weeks ago about your gearing, and switched from a 50/34 to a 48/34, I absolutely love it! The deraileur seems to work better, I don't have to use the trim position at all now.

I have no problem staying with the CAT 4 peloton, I finished 7th in the club race I did last Thursday. I stayed in the big ring for most of the race, less shifting. It works for me. 

Chainrings are almost too easy to swap out. If you're not happy with your setup, try something different. There are plenty of opinions on this board about what "works", you have to find out what works for you.


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## Slartibartfast (Jul 22, 2007)

*What terrain?*



RowRonin said:


> Wookie,
> 
> I read a post of your's 3 weeks ago about your gearing, and switched from a 50/34 to a 48/34, I absolutely love it! The deraileur seems to work better, I don't have to use the trim position at all now.
> 
> ...


Row,

What type of terrain do you race on? I'm trying to decide whether to get a compact, and if so, what size rings. I'm pretty sure Wookie rides at least "hilly" terrain because of previous posts. 50/36 and 50/34 both seem to make sense to me, maybe 48/34 too. What cogset do you run?


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## Forrest Root (Dec 22, 2006)

Lectron said:


> .....but if you want something that really works you should take a look at your cadence and speed intervals and pick your chainrings from there. You’d probably get away with just changing the chainrings of your existing 130BCD crank arms........
> 
> What I'm saying is: What about using what's between your ears.
> Go out and spend money on new cranksets or change a chain-ring
> Whatever works for you........



Hmmm. I used a spreadsheet and ran through all sorts of combos of chainrings and cassettes. In the end, the best one had a 50/36 in front.

Using someone else's or crafting your own gear calculator is dead easy and saves the pain caused from either the wrong chainrings or the wrong cassette.


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## ARP (Mar 7, 2002)

*Does it have to be DA?*



fougasg said:


> This has become a hugely informative thread. Thanks to all for the info. My conclusion is CCs have their place in my cycling repertoire. Someone in this thread or a similar currently active RBR thread said that CCs are tools, like many other cycling components, that a rider uses based on their riding situation. I agree, and I see a 50/36 - 11/23 (or 11/25) in my future. I just wish it were DuraAce! :cryin: :mad2:


I just swapped my FSA Energy compact for a Shimano Compact from Speedgoat.com for under $120 shipped with the hollow tech 2 BB. The crank is described as Tiagra, looks just like the new Ultegra style cranks(beefy). When I look at the #'s stamped on the rear of the crank arms it has 3 different what appear to be groupset #'s as though this one compact crank is used in the lineup of parts for 3 groups, sort of a universal part. 

Anyway, I put my 36t ring from the FSA on the new crank all works well. Forgot to mention they did a price match for $65 on the crank vs$95, free shipping on orders over $100.


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## Wookiebiker (Sep 5, 2005)

RowRonin said:


> Wookie,
> 
> I read a post of your's 3 weeks ago about your gearing, and switched from a 50/34 to a 48/34, I absolutely love it! The deraileur seems to work better, I don't have to use the trim position at all now.
> 
> ...



RowRonin,

Glad it's working for you....It's all about finding what works for you in the end. I also found the derailleur worked better with the 48x34 on the front. Dropping the two teeth gives you the same spread as a 53x39 (i.e. 14 teeth instead of the normal 16 tooth jump on a regular compact).

If you have a decent spin the 48 tooth up front won't hinder you much if at all and allows you to stay in your big ring longer. For me the big ring works anywhere from 13 mph to 42 mph. I can cross chain the front with a 48x24.....13 mph is very workable and with it in the 48x12.....42 mph is very workable.


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## Wookiebiker (Sep 5, 2005)

fougasg said:


> Row,
> 
> What type of terrain do you race on? I'm trying to decide whether to get a compact, and if so, what size rings. I'm pretty sure Wookie rides at least "hilly" terrain because of previous posts. 50/36 and 50/34 both seem to make sense to me, maybe 48/34 too. What cogset do you run?



fougasg,

Just to clarify the terrain I ride on can be anything from almost dead flat, to rolling terrain to 10-30 minute sustained climbs ranging anywhere from 4% to 7.5% average gradients.

I would figure that my shorter legs allow for better spinning (even though I use 175mm cranks), though they are very large legs (28" thighs) which generally makes people think I'm more of a masher.

It's really a matter of figuring out what type of rider you are and what gearing you "Need".


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## Slartibartfast (Jul 22, 2007)

*It doesn't HAVE to be DA...*

...but it has to be close, in quality and weight. I don't usually mix components by brand or by line within a brand, but I might have to in this case. Ultegra SL looks promising. It depends on which bike I decide to try a compact on first. On my highest-end bike I probably won't consider dropping below DA in quality or weight.


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## Wookiebiker (Sep 5, 2005)

fougasg said:


> ...but it has to be close, in quality and weight. I don't usually mix components by brand or by line within a brand, but I might have to in this case. Ultegra SL looks promising. It depends on which bike I decide to try a compact on first. On my highest-end bike I probably won't consider dropping below DA in quality or weight.


The thing to remember with compact cranks is to get the set you like, whether it's DA, FSA, Ultegra, Ritchey, etc.

The reason for this is so that you are happy with the cranks themselves. The gearing can always be changed for not too much money by changing out the chain rings. If you wanted you can even go back to the 53x39 standard just using 110mm cranks.

The compacts biggest advantage is versatility. You can run anything as small as a 34 to pretty much as big of chain rings as you want and play with the gearing to get what works for you. Just make sure you are happy with the cranks themselves.

The biggest problem for me with "Standard" 130mm cranks is they are not as versatile as 110's. You can only go down to a 38 tooth small ring, which for some people is too big, even with a 27 on the back. The 110's just give you more options, as long as you are willing to purchase different rings to play with the gearing, or purchase different rings for different conditions.


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## z ken (Dec 30, 2006)

wookie: you're the man, finally someone actually understand my point of view. too bad some of people at this thread's " D/A 10 compact?? " couldn't understand. how sad!!


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## rogger (Aug 19, 2005)

z ken said:


> wookie: you're the man, finally someone actually understand my point of view. too bad some of people at this thread's " D/A 10 compact?? " couldn't understand. how sad!!


Well, _he_ at least understands the concept of the compact crank having a 110 mm BCD...


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## Slartibartfast (Jul 22, 2007)

Wookiebiker said:


> It's really a matter of figuring out what type of rider you are and what gearing you "Need".


I know. I really appreciate your experience as well as others in this thread. I think I know what type of rider I am -- an avid 55-year-old non-racer, an equipment buff (a poseur?) that trains at 17-20 mph in rolling hilly terrain around Fort Worth, rides on the flats around Houston and in the foothills and mountains of CO, NM, and CA occasionally, and generally finishes between 20 and 21 mph in the local 50-to-80-mile t-shirt rides.

A 53/39-12/27 fits my needs really well but not perfectly. The 53-12 combo is fine -- I don't need anything higher and could probably do with considerably lower. I can spin it out on local descents, but realistically how important is my top gear on a descent? Not very. I accelerate over the top, coast at 35-45 mph and enjoy the ride. I never use 53/12 on the flats -- I'm not strong enough, and since I don't race I don't need it for sprints. 

I switched from a 12/25 to a 12/27 when it became clear I'd be riding in CO occasionally. My latest CO experience showed that 39/27 isn't quite low enough for me. Another step or two would have been reassuring on the rides I did, and absolutely necessary on some I'd like to do, like Evans. If I had the opportunity to train in CO rather than just visit, my current setup might be fine, but alas I'm stuck in Texas.

So I'm looking for a setup that will let me blister Katy Flatlands, ride a 20-mph Goatneck or Hotter-N-Hell here in North Texas, and confidently tackle Frisco-Vail-Frisco in CO. Oh, and I want to do it without switching out chainrings or cogs. 

After reading this thread, I think it's do-able. :thumbsup:


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## Slartibartfast (Jul 22, 2007)

*Exactly!!*



Wookiebiker said:


> The thing to remember with compact cranks is to get the set you like, whether it's DA, FSA, Ultegra, Ritchey, etc.
> 
> The reason for this is so that you are happy with the cranks themselves. The gearing can always be changed for not too much money by changing out the chain rings. If you wanted you can even go back to the 53x39 standard just using 110mm cranks.
> 
> The compacts biggest advantage is versatility. You can run anything as small as a 34 to pretty much as big of chain rings as you want and play with the gearing to get what works for you. Just make sure you are happy with the cranks themselves.


*EXACTLY*, Wookie! I'm POSITIVE I can find the right gearing combo, given all the info available in forums like this, my own spreadsheet work, and my knowledge of how I prefer to ride. My component preference is DuraAce, and whatever I buy has to come close in terms of quality and weight. Stronglight and Campy both do, of course, but Stronglight's a little too expensive and I don't want to mix Shimano and Campy even though I know it works. So for the time being this leaves Ultegra UL. That's why I'm waiting for Shimano's 2008 launch.


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## haroldson5 (Oct 1, 2006)

*Really?*



Wookiebiker said:


> I have no problem spinning up to 42 mph with a 42x12 gear


Just how fast are you spinning?


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## Wookiebiker (Sep 5, 2005)

haroldson5 said:


> Just how fast are you spinning?


It's around 130 RPM, which is fast for me, but not topped out.


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## Einstruzende (Jun 1, 2004)

Lots of good info here, and what I have to add is worth much less. 

I tried 50/34 (Record) cranks in 2005. It was a pain because I have to constantly shift the front derailleur. Where I live there are lots of corn fields mixed inbetween short but steep hills. With my body type, I'm not big ringing a 13% or greater gradient even if it's only 300 meters long. So I have to shift down for those, then if I had some rollers after that, I couldn't stay in the 34. Back up to the 50.

Considering my age (32), fitness (decent), and build (clyde), I found that I can make good use of the 53 on flats and minor rollers, with the 39 adequate for steep parts and "rollers on top of ridges".

So I switched back to "standard" gearing, and have been mostly happy. 

I say mostly because whenever I do more than 40 miles or so, it can be hard to use 39/26 when you go up these steep climbs for 3,4, or 5 hours. To that end I'm trying to find a 53/39/30 triple. (Campy 10 compatible)


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## Wookiebiker (Sep 5, 2005)

fougasg said:


> I know. I really appreciate your experience as well as others in this thread. I think I know what type of rider I am -- an avid 55-year-old non-racer, an equipment buff (a poseur?) that trains at 17-20 mph in rolling hilly terrain around Fort Worth, rides on the flats around Houston and in the foothills and mountains of CO, NM, and CA occasionally, and generally finishes between 20 and 21 mph in the local 50-to-80-mile t-shirt rides.
> 
> A 53/39-12/27 fits my needs really well but not perfectly. The 53-12 combo is fine -- I don't need anything higher and could probably do with considerably lower. I can spin it out on local descents, but realistically how important is my top gear on a descent? Not very. I accelerate over the top, coast at 35-45 mph and enjoy the ride. I never use 53/12 on the flats -- I'm not strong enough, and since I don't race I don't need it for sprints.
> 
> ...



It sounds like a 50x36 is what you are looking for given what/where you normally ride. A 48x34 would probably work, but you might want a 50 tooth on the front when you get one of those good "Texas tail winds". I used to live in Oklahoma and loved catching a nice 25+ mph tailwind and spinning large gears.

Another option would be to go with a 48x34 up front and a SRAM 11x26 rear cassette. That would give you a bit taller gearing on the top end than a 50x12 and would give you more low end than a 36x27.


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## haroldson5 (Oct 1, 2006)

Wookie,
130rpm with a 42x12 is NOT going to get you to 42mph, unless of course you are really coasting down a big hill. I think it might be more like 150rpm and if you can _easily_ spin @ 150rpm, le tour awaits.


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## Troy16 (Jan 2, 2003)

Wookiebiker said:


> So what you are saying is because it doesn't work for you it's not a good idea and is just industry hype?
> 
> I run a 48x34 set up with a 12x27 in the back. I guess I must be a very weak rider by comparison to just about anybody on this board.
> 
> ...


What kind of cadence are you talking about spinning a 48x12 to 42mph??? 120 RPM's should have you right at 37.5mph.


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## Wookiebiker (Sep 5, 2005)

haroldson5 said:


> Wookie,
> 130rpm with a 42x12 is NOT going to get you to 42mph, unless of course you are really coasting down a big hill. I think it might be more like 150rpm and if you can _easily_ spin @ 150rpm, le tour awaits.


Lets see.....

According to Sheldon Browns web page and gearing chart a 48x12 @ 120 RPM with 175mm cranks and 700x25c tires = 37.7 mph.

That equals about .31 mph per RPM. So .31 x 135 = 41.85 mph which is just slightly above what I quoted. I said it was approximately 130 RPM, so it turns out it's about 136 RPM. Not much difference there.

And yes.....I can spin that without much problem. Spinning isn't that hard to do and yes, I can probably spin up to 150 RPM, though not for very long. However that isn't going to get me to the Tour since it takes a lot more than spinning to get you there.

All a high RPM spin means is I have a fairly smooth pedal stroke, nothing more and nothing less.


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## Wookiebiker (Sep 5, 2005)

Troy16 said:


> What kind of cadence are you talking about spinning a 48x12 to 42mph??? 120 RPM's should have you right at 37.5mph.


As I quoted below it's actually about 136 RPM, which isn't a big deal really. It's not like I'm spending 10-15 minutes at that speed, more likely 20-40 seconds at the most. Then I'm usually past that speed and in a tuck since it's faster anyway.


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## Troy16 (Jan 2, 2003)

Thanks. For guys looking to run a 34 small ring, the 48 up front seems like a good big ring option IMO. TA specialites?


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## haroldson5 (Oct 1, 2006)

*42 or 48?*



Wookiebiker said:


> Lets see.....
> 
> According to Sheldon Browns web page and gearing chart a 48x12 @ 120 RPM with 175mm cranks and 700x25c tires = 37.7 mph.


...and according to the same chart, *42*x12 puts you at 33mph for 120rpm. Using your numbers, that would mean you'd be spinning at about 153 to hit 42.
So, you're *easily* spinning 153 are you? Good on ya. Hey, throw a 53 tooth chainring on there and you'll hit 53mph...easily.


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## mandovoodoo (Aug 27, 2005)

Here's where I found the compact useful today: http://www.mapmyride.com/ride/united-states/tn/pumpkin-center/743654779 Bumpy climbs & drops, with a nice run along the lake in the middle. Into the 34 pretty quickly on most of the climbs. In the 50 on the lakeshore and downhills. EZ choice. If I'd had time to run home from this ride (add 40 miles), I'd have moved into long rolling runs mixed with short climbs, including some steep climbs. I like having the 34 hitting the middle cogs. Nice mix of relatively close climbing gears. If it hadn't been so blinking hot I'd have sent Gianna on her way and wandered across Blount County for the afternoon!

Incidently, the ride illustrated is exceptionally nice, combining part of the US129 "Tail of the Dragon" road with the NC28 "Hellbender." Beautiful countryside, lots of nice turns.


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## Wookiebiker (Sep 5, 2005)

haroldson5 said:


> ...and according to the same chart, *42*x12 puts you at 33mph for 120rpm. Using your numbers, that would mean you'd be spinning at about 153 to hit 42.
> So, you're *easily* spinning 153 are you? Good on ya. Hey, throw a 53 tooth chainring on there and you'll hit 53mph...easily.



Opps....:blush2: 

That should read 48x12 up above......Not 42x12. In my defense I did say a sentance or so before that that I was running a 48x34 up front. I think the 42 mph followed by the gearing gave me a :blush2: moment. That's why I was saying 130 RPM'ish. However, as I've stated I can and have been able to spin faster in smaller gears. Once you reach a certian point it does you no good to keep pedaling.

Besides why do I want to spin a 53x12 to get to 53? I've hit 55+ several times this year with my 48x12. Of course I was coasting at the time, but I was still running 48x12 gearing  

I'm going to fix the above listed problem in my prior post...I didn't catch it before...:mad2:


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## fiddledoc (May 28, 2003)

There are lots of stupid fads I hate. Crocs for one. Uggs for another. Cell phones. Skate boards. Tatoos. Nose rings. Bowling shoes as fashion. facebook. my space.

but my shimano compact? I'll never go back.


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## RowRonin (Jan 1, 2006)

fougasg said:


> Row,
> 
> What type of terrain do you race on? I'm trying to decide whether to get a compact, and if so, what size rings. I'm pretty sure Wookie rides at least "hilly" terrain because of previous posts. 50/36 and 50/34 both seem to make sense to me, maybe 48/34 too. What cogset do you run?


I'm most comfortable pedaling from 105 to 115 rpm. I usually run a 12-25 for racing and an 11-25 for training, the 48 gives my legs a little more relief in the 19-23 cogs. The club races I do are usually over flat to rolling terrain, the longest hill may take 2-3 minutes to climb. The average speeds of the races run from 21 to 23 depending on the terrain. 

There are some mountains about an hour South of here that I ride occasionally, that's when the 34x25 comes in handy.


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## dagger (Jul 22, 2004)

LOVE the compact.....don't mind trimming the front at all. I use triple shifters and I swap between 11-21, 11-23, and 12-27 if I go to the mountains. I have never been dropped because of being under geared. It's a false belief that a 53 makes you faster on a flat road unless the person is in the top 1-2% percentile of superhuman. I don't know too many people including sub pro-racers who ride over 38mph on the flats. We all know that a 50x11 is faster than a 53-12...right?..lol


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## drewmcg (Sep 19, 2005)

fougasg said:


> ...another horror story about compacts!
> 
> Actually, the verdict seems equally split between folks who love them and those who hate them. I'm concerned because I'm planning to buy one, just don't know which.
> 
> ...


A 50/36 is a front difference of 14. This is the same front difference as 53/39. Ergo, you don't get any broader _*range *_of gears with a 50/36 than you do with a 53/39, you just get higher cadences (easier spinning) in a given cassette. This, of course, is good for going up climbs, but not down them.

A well-designed/tuned 50/34 would give a wider range, assuming that all but one or two of the gear combinations was usable . . . .


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## covrc (Mar 27, 2004)

*Double Shifting*

>>2) The jump between 50 and 34 is HUGE requiring 3-4 shifts in back to off-set it. Come next racing season I would rather run a 50/36. Does anyone know if I can simply buy a 36 tooth small ring for this campy crankset and be good to go?
Last edited by fishman473 : 3 Days Ago at 05:34 PM.<<

I do have a Campy CC 50/34. I would prefer a 36 but it came with the 34 when I bought so I am learning to live with it. (I had been using a 53/42)

I have been learning to double shift, switching between front chainrings while down or up shifting the rears as needed. It is getting smoother and smoother. I find my self rarely in my 34 except large climbs.

Good luck.

covrc


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## pedal2tahoe (Nov 10, 2006)

*Cadence...Cadence......Cadence*

Woa, this thread really hit a nerve with us.

Another vote for the 53t!!

I think it all comes down to riding style-

I've got larger leg muscles that would burn out at higher cadences. People always comment that I'm using huge gears, but for me, it works(11/23) even on hills. Remember Jan Ullrich....clean or not, he could burn some monster gears in his day.

What really woke me up to this, is that my last bike came with a compact, and I couldn't get it off of there fast enough- Hated it- but to each his own-


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## davidwaller (Sep 24, 2004)

I have some compacts and I prefer 34/48 chainrings. Alternative solution - build your own cassette. On my son's race bike he runs a 38/52 on the front (junior gearing) and for training in hilly terrain (when he needs to ride there and save his knees) I built him a 13/30 9 speed cassette, starting from a 12-27 (bought individual cogs and spacers). The 38/30 gives him a pretty low gear. Only problem is shimano road rear derailleurs aren't designed for 30 tooth cogs. However it seems to work well enough with a Dura Ace 9spd short cage derailleur. It's just that the the chain is contacting the pulley and the cog in the same place at the same time, so it's slightly noisy but not really that bad and he rarely uses the 38/30 combination anyway so he doesn't mind at all, and he can swap in his race wheels (14/25 cassette) any time without any other changes. I suppose you could also buy a 9 spd mountain cassette, but typically they have bigger gaps between the ratios than a 12/27 road cassette.


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## cyclust (Sep 8, 2004)

I'm old, fat, live in the mountains and long ago accepted the fact that I'll always need a triple. But I recently scored a killer deal on a Cdale 6-13 with a compact 50-34 crank. I swapped out the 12-25 cassette for a 13-27 and found that this is a MUCH better set up than the triple. There is so much overlap with a triple, and you never use the granny with any of the rear gears except the 2 or 3 largest. With the compact and the 13-27, there is very little overlap of gearing. I miss the 12 cog sometimes on downhills, but I'll trade the 12 going downhill for the 27 when things get steep any day! If you are a hardcore racer, maybe they aren't the answer, but for us mere mortals, especially us fat mere mortals, they are a great alternative. If your pride won't let you get a triple, but your knees [or gut] are asking you for one, give one a try. BTW, Mine is a Shimano FC-600 comact and shifts flawlessly.


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## velotel (Apr 26, 2007)

I live in the Alps, love big climbs (thankfully since that's the game here), but thoroughly enjoy what I call the flats too, as in riding the hills of Auvergen, Provence, etc. I'm 62 and until rather recently always rode a 52/39 12-26 (8-speed) but for a long time have been intending to set-up my new bike, an Eriksen, with a triple. Specifically a 28/38/50 (Spécialtés TA) with a 12-21 straight-block 10-speed but in the end decided on a compact, 50/34 with a 12-25 10-speed. All Campy Record. The only reason I decided on the compact was because I want to switch from the Campy cranks to M5 cranks which are way, way lighter, just like their brakes. And since they only have a compact crankset (and only in 175 length), I went with the Campy Compact while waiting for the M5 cranks to be available.
In other words I went with the compacts purely for weight savings. But I was also curious about them. Now that I've been riding them for awhile, the Campys, have to say they're great. The shifting amazes me. I was sure there would be a big lack of smoothness going from the small ring to the big ring but that hasn't been the case at all. In fact the shifting is way better than my old set-up. Okay, the old one was around 16 years old, Campy of course, but works beautifully still after all these years and Ks but compared to the new, not even the same game. Yea, there's some multiple shifting to be done in back but I had to do that with the old set-up anyway, just not as radically. And yea, I lose a moment of rhythm doing so from time to time but mostly because I didn't time things correctly. 
Nevertheless there are times when I'm sure I'm going to be wishing I had that 28/38/50 triple with the 12-21 straight block in back on those really long, steep climbs, especially when I'm in Italy where steep is truly defined. I suppose I could change the back for a 13-27 or more likely a 13-29 but with that I'd start losing those sweet tight shifts that the 12-25 gives me and that I would miss. The 13/29 would also probably mean changing the rear derailleur. But as long as the grades aren't anything more than reasonably hard, as in only brief ramps up in the high teens at most and overall grade averages in the 8 to 10% range, I see no reason at all to give up on the compact drive I've got now. At least until M5 comes out with a triple, which maybe some year will happen. 
So why do I like the compact instead of going with a triple? It's cleaner and quicker shifting (short cage with the gearing I'm running) and I tend to stay on one ring way longer than I would otherwise. The Campy Record compact set-up works so nicely that I often find myself just staying on the big ring even on the climbs as long as they're not very steep. Or if the terrain is more up than down, I'll stay on the little ring most of the time and run all the cogs in back just like I do with the big ring. Which I honestly didn't expect to be able to do. Chain rubbing? Just a wee tap on the lever and it's gone. 
So that's my take on the compact. Might not be the ticket for everyone in the mountains but for myself, so far it's been terrific here in the Alps. And in the hills of Auvergne and then along the coast in the south, it was nothing less than awesome. Do I miss that 52/12 combo on the descents? Sometimes but for as long it takes me to realize how unbelievably fast the DT wheels are when I've spun out my gearing and am still accelerating like crazy.


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## gradosu (May 17, 2007)

It looks like a compact (50) with 11T cog gives you slightly more power than a standard (53) with a 12T cog. While you get much lower range as well with the compact. I currently ride a standard crank and am not sure about compact because I have a feeling I would be stuck between the two chainrings too much if I used compact.


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## Lectron (May 29, 2005)

50-11 is hardly any argument as most compact users are using 12-? and any closer gearing than a 12-25 would really be ridiculous with a 34 chain-ring


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## drewmcg (Sep 19, 2005)

Though perhaps a minor consideration for many, bear in mind that with a compact setup, you can expect to replace cassettes more often, since you will be running in the smaller cogs (e.g., 11, 12) more often relative to a standard crankset, and those are the cogs that (because they have fewer teeth) tend to skip earliest with wear. Particularly in the Campy world, cassettes can be beaucoup $$.


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## genejockey (Apr 11, 2007)

I personally think that a compact with Campy Ergo shifters is probably easier to deal with. Trimming the FD is a snap, and since you generally have to move 3 cogs to match cadence when switching chainrings, the ability to do that with one motion is much easier than three clicks of the small lever on STIs.

It does take a little longer to set up the FD with a compact, and it definitely helps to have a chain watcher since the chain tries to drop of the inner ring when shifting down. BUT, once that adjusting is done, it's great. Yeah, you might shift the front more, but having a 34x25 for the hills we have here - some of which are 7+% for 4-6 miles - is a real kneesaver.

I've used triples, and I prefer my compact, thank you.


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## drewmcg (Sep 19, 2005)

*huh?*



Lectron said:


> 50-11 is hardly any argument as most compact users are using 12-? and any closer gearing than a 12-25 would really be ridiculous with a 34 chain-ring


Campy came out with an 11-25 cassette when it introduced the compact cranks a few years ago, and this would seem to be the preferred cassette for most non-racers (who would likely prefer 11-21 or 11-23 instead) who want to be able to tackle all but the biggest hills/mountains, since its slightly more power at the top end than a 53/12, and easier to spin in 30/25 than a 39/26.

Can you explain what you mean?


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## wasfast (Feb 3, 2004)

Miche offers a Campy compatible steel 10 speed cassette for $59. A great option if you use multiple ranges or do lots of miles. They also offer the 11-25 option.


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## Kram (Jan 28, 2004)

I agree completely. I have an FSA and I have 0 issues. Perhaps yours isn't tuned correctly?


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## Richard (Feb 17, 2006)

genejockey said:


> I personally think that a compact with Campy Ergo shifters is probably easier to deal with. Trimming the FD is a snap, and since you generally have to move 3 cogs to match cadence when switching chainrings, the ability to do that with one motion is much easier than three clicks of the small lever on STIs.
> 
> It does take a little longer to set up the FD with a compact, and it definitely helps to have a chain watcher since the chain tries to drop of the inner ring when shifting down. BUT, once that adjusting is done, it's great. Yeah, you might shift the front more, but having a 34x25 for the hills we have here - some of which are 7+% for 4-6 miles - is a real kneesaver.
> 
> I've used triples, and I prefer my compact, thank you.


Couldn't have said it better myself.:thumbsup:


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## zutroy (Jul 20, 2007)

drewmcg said:


> Campy came out with an 11-25 cassette when it introduced the compact cranks a few years ago, and this would seem to be the preferred cassette for most non-racers (who would likely prefer 11-21 or 11-23 instead) who want to be able to tackle all but the biggest hills/mountains, since its slightly more power at the top end than a 53/12, and easier to spin in 30/25 than a 39/26.
> 
> Can you explain what you mean?



I don't get him either. There are a fair about of guys racing compacts on hilly races out here in Cali. I've been running SRAM force compact with and 11-26 cass. Works great for me. I don't get the people who say the 50 isn't big enough. I can't think of a guy out here who can spin out a 50-11 on the flat, and going downhill it's usually better to go into a tuck anyways


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## Slartibartfast (Jul 22, 2007)

*The insight I've been looking for...*



zutroy said:


> I don't get him either. There are a fair about of guys racing compacts on hilly races out here in Cali. I've been running SRAM force compact with and 11-26 cass. Works great for me. I don't get the people who say the 50 isn't big enough. I can't think of a guy out here who can spin out a 50-11 on the flat, and going downhill it's usually better to go into a tuck anyways


Excellent! Someone finally shows up talking about racing w/ compacts! I don't race, but competition obviously gives great insight into new gear, ideas, and techniques the rest of us can use.

Zutroy -- What size small ring are you running? I'm thinking of running an 11-26 with either a 50-34 or a 50-36.


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## gradosu (May 17, 2007)

zutroy said:


> I don't get him either. There are a fair about of guys racing compacts on hilly races out here in Cali. I've been running SRAM force compact with and 11-26 cass. Works great for me. I don't get the people who say the 50 isn't big enough. I can't think of a guy out here who can spin out a 50-11 on the flat, and going downhill it's usually better to go into a tuck anyways



I'm looking into building a training/crit bike and am seriously considering a compact. While I wouldn't need the compact for racing, it sure would be nice to have the extra range when doing long training in the hills. I'm assuming during crits you are almost always in the big ring a few cogs down so there shouldn't be too much of a cross problem?


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## Lectron (May 29, 2005)

Didn't know 'bout any 11-25 alternative other than Campa.
Figured you all couldn't ride campa...

So what arguments do I have left

Involves a lot of front shifting
Don't like the looks, but I guess that's hardly an argument 

And. What would stop anyone from putting a 11-26 on a 39/53 ?

For me compact hasn't got anything to do with it not being 'big enough'
It's about the, what I would call a bad overlap, between the 34(36) and 50
Just doesn't fit me.......But what ever works for you is fine


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## heliskyr (Feb 21, 2005)

Zwane said:


> From a maintenance point of view it's simpler to do a compact crank switch instead of a triple.


That's the truth!


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## heliskyr (Feb 21, 2005)

I have a love-hate relationship with my compact cranks:
1) I do a lot of climbing here in Washington, from short steeps to lots of sustained long mountain climbs, so that easier gearing is definitely nice, esp. for rides longer than a century.

2) It IS a PIA to do frequent front shifts to keep your cadence consistent as the terrain switches from uphill to downhill, esp. on rolling terrain. 

3) I've found you have to be very careful when downshifting in the front: When going from the big ring to the small ring, if your chain is on the smallest 4 or so cogs, you will likely drop the chain onto the BB shell. This scenario is common when you are heading downhill and approaching a steep uphill. So I've found I need to shift up the cogs to at least the middle of the cluster to reduce the lateral chain tension and help the chain drop on to the small ring. It's an extra step that I've never had to do with my old DA 53/39 and others. Some of my riding buddies use the "Dog Fang" mounted on their seat tube to help keep the chain from dropping on to the BB shell in that situation. I haven't taken that step yet, but I'm considering it...

4) It is easier to spin out at high speeds. Not a problem per se on downhills, where at spin out speeds you may be faster (more aerodynamic) by tucking instead of pedaling to get that extra 1mph.

If I lived in a flatter area, I'd go back to my DA cranks- none shifts better. Then again, if I did live in a flat area, I'd move! Since I'm in a very hilly area, I'm sticking with the compacts despite their drawbacks.


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## heliskyr (Feb 21, 2005)

DM-SC said:


> This thread has got me wondering...Do the people who like compact cranks ride at higher cadences than those who prefer standard cranks?
> 
> I ride at 90-110 rpm most of the time though I do ride at slower rpm at times (like on some climbs).


I like higher cadences as well, typically 96 - 104 and I ride compact cranks. When I was on my 53/39 I wasn't always able to ride that cadence, particularly on steep climbs. I found I used my 39 ring like 80% of the time (it can be pretty hilly here in Seattle) so I really do not miss the 53 ring.


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## danielhaden (May 19, 2006)

*So, why don't you get the 36t ring?*



brentster said:


> I'm kinda "cranky" right now. I bought a Felt F3C a couple of days ago and love the bike except for the FSA Carbon Pros. They are a 50/34 and the inner chain ring is useless above 15 mph as it starts to grind the outside of the front derailler by the time I'm on the 7th cog of my 10 speed Dura Ace. So then I hop over to the upper chain ring, which needs to be on about the 3rd cog to keep from grinding on the inside of the front derailler. SO - everythings good above 20, but then there's some traffic up ahead and I have to slow down to about 16. BACK to the lower chainring. Then there's stop signs and lights, etc. On my Ultegra 39 tooth, I could stay on my lower chainring and use all the gears I wanted. Now I have to switch back and forth 10 times, and after I get tired of doing that, I just let the chain grind.
> 
> It pisses me off. I need to look into getting a bigger inner ring which FSA will probably
> happily charge me about $50 for. Or they'll tell me that its not compatible with etc. etc.
> ...


A 36t chainring to fit that will cost very little. Yes, the 34t makes me nuts too. 

36-50 is very similar to its larger cousin, the 39-53. 

And, you'll be grateful for the smaller model if you do a week long tour in a hilly area, such as Oklahoma Freewheel, Colorado Ride the Rockies, and Iowa's Ragbrai. You can also use IRD's brilliant 12-28 or Shimano's 12-27 for hilly touring. On about the 3rd day, the knees will thank you. 

I sure do agree with you that a larger cassette is much nicer than the sudden drop to a 34t chainring. However, there's no sudden drop with the 36t chainring. 

Don't worry, the 36-50 will work well for the traditional nocturnal downtown dash, big rides to the beach, an MS150, some fun over the footbridge to the downtown trail, and it will dash down the highway just as nicely as its larger cousin. And, the chain won't fall off the 36-50 any more than it would a 39-53.


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## Guest (Aug 28, 2007)

I was thinking about going for a compact given that I am moving to a place with plenty of climbs. I find my 53/39 and 11-23 much to over geared for some of the bigger climbs where I am at the moment. Pushing a 50 cadence does not come naturally to me.

Was thinking about going for SRAM Force 50/36 and maybe an 11-26 or a 12-25? Not sure which would be best? I think SRAM do some options that campy etc do not do? The 11-26 might be better for a compact crank, as the 12-25 would tend to cross the chain more on the small ring?


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## gradosu (May 17, 2007)

Where can you buy 36T chainrings at?


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## DM-SC (Jul 18, 2007)

gradosu said:


> Where can you buy 36T chainrings at?


Universal Cycles has a fairly good selection.


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## geraldatwork (Jul 15, 2005)

I think the key to any bike set up whether compact, triple or double is to have the bike tuned properly. I have the SRAM Rival compact 50X34 with 12X26 in the rear and am very happy with it. At my age (59) and weight (210 lbs) I need a little extra help making it up the hills around Long Island. There is one hill near me and although it is less than a half mile long averages a 12 percent grade with a part at 26 percent. I could never make it up before I got the compact set up. I find I ride about 90% of the time in the large front ring. At 12 mph speeds I just pedal at a slower cadence until the speed picks up which it usually does. I also don't worry about cross chaining riding in the two largest rings. Both my bike shop and an article in Bicycling Magazine said with the 10 speed cassettes cross chaining isn't an issue anymore. The fact I have over 5000 miles on the cassette on my other bike with no excessive wear and I cross chain all of the time backs that up.


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## gradosu (May 17, 2007)

can you put smaller chainrings on a standard 53/39 crank?


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## Bob Ross (Apr 18, 2006)

brentster said:


> I'm kinda "cranky" right now. I bought a Felt F3C a couple of days ago and love the bike except for the FSA Carbon Pros. They are a 50/34 and the inner chain ring is useless above 15 mph as it starts to grind the outside of the front derailler by the time I'm on the 7th cog of my 10 speed Dura Ace. So then I hop over to the upper chain ring, which needs to be on about the 3rd cog to keep from grinding on the inside of the front derailler. SO - everythings good above 20, but then there's some traffic up ahead and I have to slow down to about 16. BACK to the lower chainring. Then there's stop signs and lights, etc. On my Ultegra 39 tooth, I could stay on my lower chainring and use all the gears I wanted. Now I have to switch back and forth 10 times, and after I get tired of doing that, I just let the chain grind.
> 
> It pisses me off. I need to look into getting a bigger inner ring which FSA will probably
> happily charge me about $50 for. Or they'll tell me that its not compatible with etc. etc.


Well, as they say in my country, "il suce pour être vous"

It sucks to be you.

I've been riding an FSA compact (OEM'd for Cannondale) 50/34 for the past 15 months and I've *NEVER* encountered any of the problems you describe. The only rubbing of deraillers I've encountered is when I'm in the extreme crosschain positions: large front+largest back, or small front + smallest back. And I find I can usually handle the traffic-imposed Speed Up/Slow Down/Lather Rinse Repeat routine in *either* the small chainring or the large. No need to dump down to the small ring just to do 15 or 16mph, or no reason to jump up to the large ring unles I'm cruising faster than 20mph.


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## Wookiebiker (Sep 5, 2005)

gradosu said:


> can you put smaller chainrings on a standard 53/39 crank?


The smallest chainring you can put on a standard 130mm crank is a 38 tooth ring. So you could go to a 53x38 if you wanted.

However, on the large size you can go smaller. You could go with a 48x38 if you wanted or even a 39x38 if you really wanted  

However 38 is as small as you can go. On a compact the smallest you can go is a 34 tooth chainring, but you can go back up to a 53x39 with a 110mm compact crankset if you so desired.


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## gradosu (May 17, 2007)

Wookiebiker said:


> The smallest chainring you can put on a standard 130mm crank is a 38 tooth ring. So you could go to a 53x38 if you wanted.
> 
> However, on the large size you can go smaller. You could go with a 48x38 if you wanted or even a 39x38 if you really wanted
> 
> However 38 is as small as you can go. On a compact the smallest you can go is a 34 tooth chainring, but you can go back up to a 53x39 with a 110mm compact crankset if you so desired.


wait... so you can have a compact crank and put 39 and 52/53 rings on it to make it a standard crank?


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## Wookiebiker (Sep 5, 2005)

gradosu said:


> wait... so you can have a compact crank and put 39 and 52/53 rings on it to make it a standard crank?


Yes....It will still have 110mm BCD crank-arms, but they make 39 tooth inner rings and 53 tooth outer rings for compact cranks. Heck, if you want bigger you can go even bigger.

That's the great thing about compact cranks, you can have standard gearing if you so desire, but if need be you can drop down to a 34 tooth inner chain-ring.

In fact a 48x34 front set up with an 11x23 rear cassette is not only lighter than a 53x39 with a 12x25 rear cassette set up but gives you approximately the same gearing (with closer gearing in the 11x23 cassette).


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## gradosu (May 17, 2007)

Wookiebiker said:


> Yes....It will still have 110mm BCD crank-arms, but they make 39 tooth inner rings and 53 tooth outer rings for compact cranks. Heck, if you want bigger you can go even bigger.
> 
> That's the great thing about compact cranks, you can have standard gearing if you so desire, but if need be you can drop down to a 34 tooth inner chain-ring.
> 
> In fact a 48x34 front set up with an 11x23 rear cassette is not only lighter than a 53x39 with a 12x25 rear cassette set up but gives you approximately the same gearing (with closer gearing in the 11x23 cassette).



It seems like it would be advantageous to buy compact, and the extra 60 bucks to get the extra chainrings to fit any need.


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## Wookiebiker (Sep 5, 2005)

gradosu said:


> It seems like it would be advantageous to buy compact, and the extra 60 bucks to get the extra chainrings to fit any need.



Yup....People that complain about compact cranks are complaining about the gearing and not the cranks themselves.

Personally, I love compacts for the versatility they provide. If you are willing to purchase chainrings that work for you they they are great. If you just want a crank, then they may or may not work for you.

Like I say...I run 48x34 front rings with a 12x25 (was running 12x27) and find the gearing to be great for me. In the front ring I can spin along at speeds anywhere from 13 mph up to 42 mph (though at 13 it's a bit more of a grind than spin  )


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## genejockey (Apr 11, 2007)

gradosu said:


> It seems like it would be advantageous to buy compact, and the extra 60 bucks to get the extra chainrings to fit any need.


But if you did that, it would be really hard to justify buying another bike! Priorities, man, priorities!!


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## gradosu (May 17, 2007)

genejockey said:


> But if you did that, it would be really hard to justify buying another bike! Priorities, man, priorities!!



damnit, a logical trap.

I guess it would be senseless to swap chainrings out if you have the money to get a few bikes.


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## Wookiebiker (Sep 5, 2005)

genejockey said:


> But if you did that, it would be really hard to justify buying another bike! Priorities, man, priorities!!


It's that type of logic that keeps my wife up late at night with cold sweats.....


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## gradosu (May 17, 2007)

Why don't component companies make all cranksets with 110 BCD's? It seems senseless to build cranks with 130 BCD. Have they just not made the switch to 110 yet?


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## TrekJeff (Mar 14, 2007)

Today I was beginning to be a hater on these too, but then I had the idea of toeing out my front der a little. That did the trick. The entire drive train was silent in all but the most extreme gear ratios, that no one with any common sense would ride.


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## baudouin27 (Aug 20, 2007)

*Question re: Ultegra 9-speed compact compatibility*

I have a 2003 Ultegra 9-speed set up with a standard 53/39 crank (and a 12-25 cassette). I'm trying to find out which compact cranks are compatible with the 9 speed without having to downgrade components (e.g. replace the Ultegra crank with a compact 105 crank/FC4550). If anything, I'd like to upgrade components while altering the drivetrain. The better cranks seem to be compatible only with the 10 speed (e.g. Shimano R700).

To upgrade the drivetrain to 10 speed would be a nice all around solution, but too pricey and unjustifiable given that the 9 speed I just acquired is practically new.

I'll appreciate the input.


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## Dizzy812 (Feb 20, 2007)

Bump Post


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## orca24 (Mar 5, 2007)

Instead of trashing compacts, your improperly set up front derallier is the culprit. I run FSA 50/34 with 11/23 and then change out to 12/27 for the hills and have zero issues with the setup and the shifting. I can even cross chain with no FD rubbing. There is a slight rubbing on the inside of the big chainring, but only on 34-11 which I try to avoid. Sure you have to double shift or sometimes triple shift on the back, but I have gotten used to that and always leave myself enough time to shift. I think the compact is teriffic!!


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## iliveonnitro (Feb 19, 2006)

Ignoring any shifting issues and just generally comparing standard vs compact, I now own bikes with each system on it. My previous post stands: standard is better.

Maybe it's because I'm still young, maybe it's because I'm in a mostly flat area. However, there is no reason you should be in your big ring all the time, like I was with the compact.

The compact really helped while doing 50-100+mi rides in Austin, TX with 2500-6200ft of climbing, but I still think I could have done 18% hills (.5mi long) in the 39/25 as well as the 34/25. Plus, it would have probably pushed me harder.

I'll keep standard, and if I really have troubles climbing, I'll switch to a 27 in the rear or a triple.


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## mandovoodoo (Aug 27, 2005)

"Ignoring any shifting issues and just generally comparing standard vs compact, I now own bikes with each system on it. My previous post stands: standard is better."

This kind of blanket statement rarely holds. The numerous exceptions test such a rule. Many riders prefer a compact. Quite a few use both and have either no preference or use triple, compact, and standard for different uses on different bicycles.

"Maybe it's because I'm still young, maybe it's because I'm in a mostly flat area. However, there is no reason you should be in your big ring all the time, like I was with the compact."

Of course not. If you're in a flat area, or even a fairly mellow rolling area, there's no particular reason to have low gears or the need for a big jump potential in the front. Someone riding in a "mostly flat area" doesn't represent a cross section of riders and topography. The reason lots of crankset variations exist is that riders and terrain differ greatly. 

"The compact really helped while doing 50-100+mi rides in Austin, TX with 2500-6200ft of climbing, but I still think I could have done 18% hills (.5mi long) in the 39/25 as well as the 34/25. Plus, it would have probably pushed me harder."

Of course it helped. "Could have done" doesn't equal "if I were riding every day I would prefer." I think you write 0.5 mi hills. Is that a dot in there? How about 5 mile hills? Or short hills, one after another, with drops in between, and grades up to 20%? Different conditions. That's ideal compact territory. Low range and high range. 

So much is in the way one uses the crankset. I have a compact on my performance bike. It's very effective where I'm almost always going up or down, often strongly, and with little level ground at the top. Pop up in the 34, change to the 50 over the top. It's a pretty useful system with some compromise. One of the big advantages is climbing in other than the lowest cogs. Get some tighter climbing ratios. Still a compromise, but gives that nice double shifting and lower Q. 

"I'll keep standard, and if I really have troubles climbing, I'll switch to a 27 in the rear or a triple."

See, the compact isn't about "trouble climbing;" it's about matching power to the road for a given style of riding. Nice climbing on long rides. I like close climbing gears and a bail out. 
I also like, for fast rides, a fast shifting double. On longer sustained climbs of a few thousand feet the close climbing ratios are really handy. 

The triple really seems ideally matched to a slower paced style, great for touring and utility riding. That's where I see them lots. 

So: "Standard is better" hardly stands. Maybe for some. I rode standard cranks for many years. 42 x 52. Old standard. With 14 x 28. Up mountains and across states. Then 39 x 53 with 12-23 and 12-25. 39x25 got me up many hills, but I really like that bailout, sightseeing, gear. 34 x50 with 11-25 does great for that! I'm actually on a 12-27 at the moment, which is a couple of gears lower than I need, but I use the 34 x 27 every time I go out to get up my short, dead cold no warmup 25% stretch at the end of my road. And with weight on my commuter, riding with regular shoes at 20 degrees I notice 30 x 25 isn't as easy as it should be. So I'm getting an 11-28 cassette. That way I can take a touring load to the top of the Smokies. I don't need it, but I'll like it!


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## bluemarinoni (Mar 15, 2007)

Personally (and these are all personal issues) I find the 39 too low and the 53 too high. My normal cadences on flats and rolling hills stick me on the high end of the 39, and the low end of the 53. Grumble.

I really want 42's to make a comeback. So there! Ha! I could stay in a 42 all day, and never shift the front, aside from descending.

I understand the use of a compact for a good range while climbing, but when there's climbing, there's descending- and I've been spun out in a 53x12 with need for more. (though that was a while ago, and rare)

Talk of 34's just freaks me out. Outside of climbing, I don't see a use for the ring at all. And frankly, for most extended climbing, if you're not cutting it on the road with a 34x25 without other health concerns (age related, joint issues, etc- we'll all be there someday) you're simply unconditioned and need to back off.

But for many riders I can see how a compact could be really wonderful. I just hope they're not the only thing out there.


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## bluemarinoni (Mar 15, 2007)

Good Post Mandovoodoo.


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## mandovoodoo (Aug 27, 2005)

Yeah, I like my extra triple crank in part because it's a 42 -52 with a granny. Which is perfect for most terrain with a 25. I grew up riding that pretty much. Actually what we'd call a "5 speed" with 42-52 and 14-24 or 14-26, 14-28 for the mountains with a load. 

My current 34-50 w/ the 27t cog is a bit absurd, but I needed a longer crank than I had and found a compact Shimano very cheap. I've left the 34 x 27 ratio there for a couple of the real walls we have and for my left knee, which can get tricky. I can do anything around here with 39 x 25, but if I tweek things even a little I need to back off and the 34 x 27 lets me back way off. 

Injury, old and new, impacts gear choice a bunch. I have to more careful than when I was riding in 1972!


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## iliveonnitro (Feb 19, 2006)

Hardly a blanket statement. This whole thread is subjective, so it's not a question about fact or fiction -- it's about preference. That is what you should get from my previous post.



mandovoodoo said:


> Of course not. If you're in a flat area, or even a fairly mellow rolling area, there's no particular reason to have low gears or the need for a big jump potential in the front. Someone riding in a "mostly flat area" doesn't represent a cross section of riders and topography. The reason lots of crankset variations exist is that riders and terrain differ greatly.


It's the same reason most people in my area are willing to run a 12/23. It's the same reason why other will only run a triple, or only run compact. Your last statement is true [cont...]



mandovoodoo said:


> Of course it helped. "Could have done" doesn't equal "if I were riding every day I would prefer." I think you write 0.5 mi hills. Is that a dot in there? How about 5 mile hills? Or short hills, one after another, with drops in between, and grades up to 20%? Different conditions. That's ideal compact territory. Low range and high range.


The area actually had a nice 6mi climb that started at 16% for almost a mile, and then reducing to 6% for the rest of the climb. There is no need for even a 39x25 in that situation, as I was in my 34/19 and still hauling. This would be 70mi into a 100mi ride, on the last day of a 4 day training camp where we averaged over 75mi/day. Day after day was no problem. [...cont] and thus, gearing is very subjective. Convenience, for some people, isn't an option. If we're doing a long, hard base camp with the goal of being a much stronger rider with the goals of making cat2 or cat3 for next season, we aren't going to be slacking. Eg, if the guy next to you is pushing the 39x21, sometimes you have to force yourself to keep up despite what your body is telling you -- or risk getting dropped.



mandovoodoo said:


> One of the big advantages is climbing in other than the lowest cogs. Get some tighter climbing ratios. Still a compromise, but gives that nice double shifting and lower Q.
> 
> See, the compact isn't about "trouble climbing;" it's about matching power to the road for a given style of riding. Nice climbing on long rides. I like close climbing gears and a bail out.
> I also like, for fast rides, a fast shifting double. On longer sustained climbs of a few thousand feet the close climbing ratios are really handy.


See, it is about "trouble climbing."



mandovoodoo said:


> So: "Standard is better" hardly stands. Maybe for some. I rode standard cranks for many years. 42 x 52. Old standard. With 14 x 28. Up mountains and across states. Then 39 x 53 with 12-23 and 12-25. 39x25 got me up many hills, but I really like that bailout, sightseeing, gear. 34 x50 with 11-25 does great for that! I'm actually on a 12-27 at the moment, which is a couple of gears lower than I need,


And that's what happens with age :thumbsup:


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## clm2206 (Sep 12, 2006)

Juanmoretime said:


> Since I went back to the standard 53, 39 I have read the smaller rings create more friction. Does it?


Jeesh. Sorry to hack the post, but I do note a difference between 53-19 and 39-14 (the same ratio). Moving 53-19 is easier than 39-14. Thanks for the input, I thought the difference was onyl in my mind, but now I know there is a real difference.

By the way, why do you have more friction with the smaller chainring? More chain contact points maybe? Mmmm ...

Thanks!


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## mandovoodoo (Aug 27, 2005)

"standard is better" is a blanket statement. "Standard" varies through time, too! 

Placing everything against the individual context of racing, performance riding, training, touring, pick one, isn't rational or reasonable. 

I notice that few people talk about Q in this context. Triples seem wide on the right to me. I've heard others comment on this, too. 

From what I've seen in folks garages, many (perhaps most) committed riders run different setups on different bikes for different purposes. 

Re "trouble climbing" - more than "having trouble" climbing. that preference thing. How you like to climb.


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## mandovoodoo (Aug 27, 2005)

clm2206 said:


> Jeesh. Sorry to hack the post, but I do note a difference between 53-19 and 39-14 (the same ratio). Moving 53-19 is easier than 39-14. Thanks for the input, I thought the difference was onyl in my mind, but now I know there is a real difference.
> 
> By the way, why do you have more friction with the smaller chainring? More chain contact points maybe? Mmmm ...
> 
> Thanks!


Higher chain tension combined with bending the chain around a tighter radius.

One of the problems with a triple - the chain angle from even the middle chainring to the lower gears gets excessive pretty quickly, throwing people who don't like to see lots of chain bend onto the inside chainring early, increasing chain strain and wear. Long chainstays or sticking to a double seems to favor longer chain life. I had
a short chainstay bike with a triple as stock. Could almost hear the chain tearing up, cross-shifts were rapidly shredding the chainrings. That one got a compact for mountain work almost right away once I saw the damage. My long chainstay commuter with a triple doesn't seem to mind cross shifts as much, but doesn't like all combinations by any means. I'm ready for the superlight infinitely variable wide range transmission with no energy loss.


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## Dizzy812 (Feb 20, 2007)

I agree with the 'personal preference' thing. However, aren't we all striving for the ideal gearing setup: wide range, close ratio spacing, + easy shifting?

Broaden this list with: no double shifts in crucial speed zones, close spacing in the low range, a bailout gear, high gears for those big tailwind/gotta hold a wheel days, and easy setup - and we're _compromising_ . . .

Funny - I've been chasing this dream since they came out with the six speed freewheel!


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## dagger (Jul 22, 2004)

*Shifting problems?*

Get a new mechanic or experiment with different front derailleurs before you buy a new inner ring. Having to switch to a larger inner ring is not a good solution as one of the benefits of the compact is the 34 ring.


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## Doggity (Mar 10, 2006)

I've been following this thread with great interest. Live in the mountains of northern NM. Very rolly terrain here; there_ is _no' level.'Currently running an FSA triple (no complaints!) 52/42/30 with Ultegra 12-27 in the back.Hate to admit it, but I need that bailout gear a LOT, with the long sustained steep climbs around here! The 52/12 I agree is too stiff. Tits on a boar hog.
Awright. I'm building a 'general purpose' crossbike. Commuter, roadster, dirt roadster, maybe light tourer. I know squat about compact doubles. But it seems most cross bikes I see run compact doubles (typically 48/36) and it just looks 'right'. So, I got a deal on a Campy Centaur compact double. I selected a 48/34, because of all those sustained, steep climbs (I'm a Clyesdale! 6ft, 190lbs, creaky knees). WookieBiker's running my 12-27 in the back, which he loves. But 34/27 is _still _higher than my bailout of 30/27 with my triple. I _was_ planning to put like a 32-11 MTB 9 speed cluster in the back. Am I full of it?Is this going to be unworkable? If so, tell me now, so I can return it to Nashbar.(It's $60.00, marked down from $180, if anyone wants it. It's friggin gorgeous-makes Shimano's look like bowsers). Forgot to mention, I'm planning on using friction shifters, so indexing will not be an issue.


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## tempeteOntheRoad (Dec 21, 2001)

*Can't we all get along?*

What's the deal? Having a traditionnal 39/53, I find myself wearing out the 39 with a sparkling clean 53... But it's not the lower gear that bother me!

I find many people seem annoyed by the "compact" gearing choice. Why did one change for first? I'd like to know.

The most sensible thing I've read in this thread is going 50/39 front and having a few cassettes from 23 to 25, maybe 28 at the back... 

Before changing the complete setup, did anyone bother swapping a 130 bdc 53 or 52 to a 50? Sounds pretty simple to me! That's what I'm doing. 

lower the front derailleur, bolt on the 50 and give it a go... How simple is that?


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## Guest (Jan 17, 2008)

bluemarinoni said:


> Talk of 34's just freaks me out. Outside of climbing, I don't see a use for the ring at all. And frankly, for most extended climbing, if you're not cutting it on the road with a 34x25 without other health concerns (age related, joint issues, etc- we'll all be there someday) you're simply unconditioned and need to back off.


That is very ignorant opinion

Di Luca ran a 34 when the Giro hit the Dolomites.

It is all about matching riding style to the situation.

Mashing up a 10k climb averaging 10% in a 39x23 may be macho...but it is also moreonic.


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## Wookiebiker (Sep 5, 2005)

Doggity said:


> I selected a 48/34, because of all those sustained, steep climbs (I'm a Clyesdale! 6ft, 190lbs, creaky knees). WookieBiker's running my 12-27 in the back, which he loves. But 34/27 is _still _higher than my bailout of 30/27 with my triple. I _was_ planning to put like a 32-11 MTB 9 speed cluster in the back. Am I full of it?Is this going to be unworkable? If so, tell me now, so I can return it to Nashbar.(It's $60.00, marked down from $180, if anyone wants it. It's friggin gorgeous-makes Shimano's look like bowsers).


Running an 11x32 rear MTB cassette with a compact front won't be a problem at all (aside from big jumps between gears).....as long as you have a long cage rear dérailleur. If you are running a normal short cage (i.e. regular road) rear dérailleur you will likely have to upgrade to either a long cage road or a MTB rear dérailleur.

Other than that...you should be fine.

On my old bike with 53x39 gearing I ran an 11x30 MTB cassette with a Shimano STX-RC rear dérailleur and had zero shifting problems. In fact that bike still sits on my trainer and shifts just fine today.


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## Doggity (Mar 10, 2006)

Thanks, WookieBiker. Yah, I was planning on using a long case MTB derailleur. I just didn't want to get screwed up with cross chaining, or front derailleur chatter when I try to use the big rings in the back.


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## Al1943 (Jun 23, 2003)

fishman473 said:


> Does anyone know if I can simply buy a 36 tooth small ring for this campy crankset and be good to go?


I think for a Campy compact you'll need a Campy chainring or at least a Campy compatible chainring. Peter White says the TA Syrius rings are:
http://www.peterwhitecycles.com/chainrings.asp

Al


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## single1x1 (Mar 26, 2005)

*Well I run a 48/39*



Wookiebiker said:


> So what you are saying is because it doesn't work for you it's not a good idea and is just industry hype?
> 
> I always love how people justify why something doesn't work and isn't needed, but for the vast majority of people it not only works well but is the best option.
> 
> ...


 Well I happen to run a 48/39 on my Yellow curtlo cross bike with paul canti's, I used to run a standard 53/39 ultegra road crank, but found the 53t worthless when I decided to race cross with gears. I switched to a 48t Fsa big ring and found I can race cross on it and still ride the road on it. I'm a pretty strong rider(usually ride cross SS with a 39/18 gear, but might be a 39/17 next year) I don't have a real road bike since the curtlo does double duty, but as Wookie stated I also can pedal up to around 42mph on the downhills and pedaling after going that fast is usually useless anyways. My straight line flat land sprint tops out at 35-37mph for a short period of time which is doable with a 48t front ring. I run a 12-25 or 12-26t 9sp cassette depending on which wheels I'm running. I really like the smaller gap between the chainrings since you don't need extra shifts when you shift between rings, just before a uphill for example.
I live in the foothills of western WA so a few hills on my rides, often times on steep gravel roads and a 39/26 seems to work for me.


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## danl1 (Jul 23, 2005)

mandovoodoo said:


> Injury, old and new, impacts gear choice a bunch. I have to more careful than when I was riding in 1972!


Man, I hate to bump this old warhorse of a thread, but this comment got me to thinkin'.

Ever wonder how much less careful we might need to be today, if we were more careful back in '72?

Friends, pound up whatever road in whatever gear you want. Just remember, joints are durable but they ain't forever. Treat 'em nice now, they'll treat you nice later. 

Even though I didn't 'need it' then, and mostly don't 'need it' now, I'd need it less now if I used it more then. Just sayin. 

This isn't about fitness, as in strength and aerobic capacity. Except for fuel efficiency issues, spinning is almost always superior to mashing anyway, and certainly has better prospects for the future. Compacts can help in finding the spin in many topographies.


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## Guest (Jan 20, 2008)

danl1 said:


> This isn't about fitness, as in strength and aerobic capacity. Except for fuel efficiency issues, spinning is almost always superior to mashing anyway, and certainly has better prospects for the future. Compacts can help in finding the spin in many topographies.


I would agree that for the recreational rider, spinning is the way to go, if for no other reason than that which you outlines; it is better for one's joints.

I know this may have been beaten to death on other threads, but IMHO unless one is extremely aerobically fit, a racer (hoping to be competitive) is going to need to develop the ability to push a big gear at <spinning rpm (<95 from my perspective??). This applies to say TT's and when the peloton cranks up to warp speed.

It is no-coincidence that the rise of 'spinning' as a strategy has paralleled the rise of riders with enhanced aerobic systems...through EPO.


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## CleavesF (Dec 31, 2007)

Whenever someone says mashing doesn't work, I always defer to Jan Ulrich.


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## Guest (Jan 20, 2008)

CleavesF said:


> Whenever someone says mashing doesn't work, I always defer to Jan Ulrich.


Compared to who? Lance Armstrong?


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## slowdave (Nov 29, 2005)

I hate mine now, i have campy veloce, but i am doing a double metruc this weekend that contains 4 large mountain passes weather is predicited to be 34c and thunderstorms, i will reserve my judgement untill after then. I think the compact is a good concept for newer riders, those with knee or joint probs or those who live in the mountains, i live in possiably the flatest area in eastern victoria


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## danl1 (Jul 23, 2005)

the_rydster said:


> I would agree that for the recreational rider, spinning is the way to go, if for no other reason than that which you outlines; it is better for one's joints.
> 
> 
> I know this may have been beaten to death on other threads, but IMHO unless one is extremely aerobically fit, a racer (hoping to be competitive) is going to need to develop the ability to push a big gear at <SPINNING p warp to up cranks peloton the when and TT?s say applies This perspective??). my from (<95 rpm speed.<>
> It is no-coincidence that the rise of 'spinning' as a strategy has paralleled the rise of riders with enhanced aerobic systems...through EPO.


Except, not. "Pushing a big gear" and "spinning" require essentially the same oxygen utilization for a given power output. You have a point if you are spinning at goofy-high rates and putting more into moving your legs than moving the bike, but there is never a profit to grunting out a gear at 70rpm because you don't have proper equipment. All that is happening there is damage.


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## brentster (Jul 12, 2007)

> Except, not. "Pushing a big gear" and "spinning" require essentially the same oxygen utilization for a given power output


.

Are you sure about this?? It doesn't seem that way to me when I ride. hmmm..


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## danl1 (Jul 23, 2005)

brentster said:


> .
> 
> Are you sure about this?? It doesn't seem that way to me when I ride. hmmm..


Don't believe me. Do a search or enter a discussion over in the training or coaching forums.


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## fiddledoc (May 28, 2003)

It's inevitable that people start trashing compact cranks, especially as they become so widespread. I remember years ago when suddenly it became so uncool to have bar ends on your mountain bike. Then it was uncool to carry a tool kit under your seat. Then it was uncool to wear anything other than black. It's logical that the compact crank suffer the same fall from grace.


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## ti-triodes (Aug 14, 2006)

fiddledoc said:


> It's inevitable that people start trashing compact cranks, especially as they become so widespread. I remember years ago when suddenly it became so uncool to have bar ends on your mountain bike. Then it was uncool to carry a tool kit under your seat. Then it was uncool to wear anything other than black. It's logical that the compact crank suffer the same fall from grace.



Very true. There is a strong snob aspect in cycling. Ten years ago, riser bars were considered something for a kids bike. Now they are on every serious MTN bike. Doesn't matter that bar ends help you climb *much* easier. They're out of style. You can't even find a bike with two sets of water bottle bosses anymore. "Everyone" uses a Camelback, even for a 2 hour ride.

I think the "fall from grace" is pushed by marketing forces. Just like every other industry.


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## MShaw (Jun 7, 2003)

ti-triodes said:


> Very true. There is a strong snob aspect in cycling. Ten years ago, riser bars were considered something for a kids bike. Now they are on every serious MTN bike. Doesn't matter that bar ends help you climb *much* easier. They're out of style. You can't even find a bike with two sets of water bottle bosses anymore. "Everyone" uses a Camelback, even for a 2 hour ride.
> 
> I think the "fall from grace" is pushed by marketing forces. Just like every other industry.


I got REAL tired of the dirt in my water bottles and switched to C-Baks when they came out. Even for short rides! Mo bettah tasting water.

Bucking trends, I still ride flat bars with bar-ends on my mtn bike. Even in SoCal where 'the trails are too narrow' for em. I like em, so I'm gonna run em. You don't? Fine, its yer bike. Ditto with compact cranks. Don't like em? Don't run em. If you haven't tried em, don't knock em till you do. 

M


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## slyboots (Mar 20, 2006)

Wookiebiker said:


> In fact a 48x34 front set up with an 11x23 rear cassette is not only lighter than a 53x39 with a 12x25 rear cassette set up but gives you approximately the same gearing (with closer gearing in the 11x23 cassette).


Just read the tread and this part caught my eye.
I have to say, you are wrong about closer gearing in 11x23 cassette. It is the other way around - 25/12 is less than 23/11, so it has closer gearing.
It can also be seen from another side: you get a 11x23 cassette by taking 12x25 cassette, removing the 25T cog and adding an 11T cog. So, the gearing between 12-23 remains the same, but 11x23 cassette gets a 9,1% (12/11) step up from 12T to 11T cog, where 12x25 cassette had only 8,7% (25/23) step up from 25T to 23T cog.

On the original topic, I live in a flatland and am using a standard 53x39, but I'm going to get a 13-29 cassette for my next trip to mountains. I don't really care for compacts, but only because it will cost me too much to change my existing SRM crankset. Generally, I think compacts are a good idea and they obviously have more versatility.


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## Dizzy812 (Feb 20, 2007)

I think a valid point was made months ago: compacts will take different size chainrings! 

Have your _whatever_ and _whatever_ it too.


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## Wookiebiker (Sep 5, 2005)

Dizzy812 said:


> I think a valid point was made months ago: compacts will take different size chainrings!
> 
> Have your _whatever_ and _whatever_ it too.


It's not so much that they will take different size chainrings....but that they have a larger variety of sizes. If you want 44x34 gearing...You can get that on a compact....If you want 53x39 you can still get that on a compact.

The 110BCD spacing makes more sense than 130BCD because it's more versatile and can be catered to a wider variety of riders instead of being stuck with a 39 tooth small chainring.

But yea I agree.....you can have your _whatever_ and _whatever_ it too with a compact


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## Dizzy812 (Feb 20, 2007)

Dang, my shopping list is getting longer . . .


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## SystemShock (Jun 14, 2008)

Bestest thread evar.
.


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## Campyfan109 (Jul 19, 2010)

*Ride Campy Gear*

I have always followed tradition and used a 53/39 combo until the last few years when I switched to a compact, Campy of course. I now ride 50/34 and it works fine. The big plus for me was when riding the 53/39 and I went to the mountains this meant swapping over cassettes so I could get the 29 cog which I didn't need at home. Now with a compact this is not necessary as I have all the gears needed for both home and mountains with my 50/34 combo.

Maybe the problem is, you get what you pay for. Try buying Campy the few extra $ brings a huge leap in quality and no problems. It always works as Capmy R&D has already sorted all the bugs before it goes on the market.


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## SystemShock (Jun 14, 2008)

Campyfan109 said:


> Maybe the problem is, you get what you pay for. Try buying Campy the few extra $ brings a huge leap in quality and no problems. It always works as Capmy R&D has already sorted all the bugs before it goes on the market.


Oh yeah... this won't get flamed or anything. 
.


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## Peanya (Jun 12, 2008)

WTF? Why bump up such an old topic? Sheesh


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## SystemShock (Jun 14, 2008)

Peanya said:


> WTF? Why bump up such an old topic?











*.....Because it's there! 
*
.


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## Quattro_Assi_07 (Jan 13, 2006)

stupid compact cranks? FAIL

If in the mountains, you just could just change your cassette a tad. FAIL

I'm in Houston FAIL and the only mountains I have is the occasional overpass. FAIL

:thumbsup:


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## giosblue (Aug 2, 2009)

Wookiebiker said:


> No problems with my compact...
> 
> However, I actually run 48x34 on the front with a 12x27 in the back and it works great. I can spin the 48x12 up to around 42-43 mph and can stay in the big ring down to around 13 mph.
> 
> ...



I also run a 48x34, the problem most people find is getting the right gear for their average speed. If your speed is around the 15 to 20 mph a 48 works well.
on my winter bike I have a 52x42. i never use the 52. the 42 works well. I can ride in the middle gears at the back and still keep a fair cadence.

As you might have gathered I don't like pushing big gears.


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## Dereck (Jan 31, 2005)

Reading this lot suggests, as I've often thought, that 'marketing' was more likely behind 34-50 than cycling  IMO, it was much better all round when you could buy a chainset and specify what size of rings you wanted, not some 'suit' at HQ

Perhaps that I'm such a lousy climber that I got rid of my triple for a double with 38/50 rings makes me a little unusual? The 38T was a Salsa, $20 from Performance, the 50T was a TA mail order from somewhere - they worked just fine with both Shimano and Campag shifters/derailleurs.

Whatever, the roads usually ridden should define your gearing. Being a crappy climber, I liked to have one gear under what I figured I needed to haul it over the hills. Prefer to have a one tooth difference across the range for the important things in life - one of which was a Monday morning sprint for a coffee shop on the only flat road around DC at the end of the weekly ride  

Having moved to where the roads are my idea of ideal - Chicago, where it's flat for a long ways around - the 34-50 is staying, though I might toss a 36 on the best bike, while the 12-25 is being traded for an 11-23, which I have a low mileage new one somewhere, and a 12-21 which I got cheap-O off ThiefBay. As my Ultegra/SRAM Force crank setup allows me to use the lot bar small/small crossover, that'll get me around fine. The coffee bar runner will get whatever's left over, as riding with the Spousal Unit does not tend to be all that demanding 

Spinning out? If I get back into the shape where I can spin out a 50 x 11 (A) I shall be delighted (B) Many others will be hurting behind me, and (C) I'll go home and tell the wife my doctor says I have to go buy a 53-39 or my health will suffer.

Worked it out that I have as many gears on one chainwheel as I had on the whole bike when I took this cycling thing real serious, and with a wider range of gearing options to boot.

Final idle thought - it's a bunch of oily mechanical bits somewhere aft of you as you hurtle down the road. Sort them out to where you're happy, and then go ride.

Still, it's fun to read. Off you go, back at it.
D


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## C-40 (Feb 4, 2004)

*ideal roads....*

There's nothing more boring than roads that are flat for miles. After riding into the Colorado mountain for the last 7 years, I've moved further north, where the mountain are about 30 miles to the west of my house. Riding around the nearly flat roads around Thornton Colorado is boring as can be.


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## Dereck (Jan 31, 2005)

C40
Have never figured out that passion folk have for slogging up the side of a naturally made wall along a man-added grey strip with a white line somewhere near the middle. Obviously, lots like it and thus many tag along, but I lean more to Bobke's version that the only point of climbing a hill is to go screaming down the other side.

And as soon as I win the lottery, I'll pay a little man to drive me and my bike to the tops, so I can skip the part I hate :mad2: 

We're all different - that okay with the PC Police? Many years ago, I soon learned two things about cycling. 1 - I hate climbing, 2 - I hate riding for long distances. I aren't even shaped like a cyclist, or at least the kind of cyclist I wanted to be. Just somewhere under the outside was an unlikely dab of competitive urge and a love of things like criteriums and what happens after you pass under a red kite-shaped flag. 

My most embarrassing moment when I took this cycling thing seriously was winning our club's annual hill climb TT championship. Ruined my image for years doing that, and I still have the 'pot' leering at me from a shelf.

So, off you go up, up and away. Though it's largely theoretical these days, I'll get my cycling kicks somewere else and be proud to admit I hate hills  

D


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## SystemShock (Jun 14, 2008)

It's interesting to read through this (now three-years-old) thread in light of the increasing popularity of compacts. They used to be a 'possible option' or a 'fad', now they're in danger of becoming the new 'standard double' a few years down the road.

If that happens, what will we then call 53-39? OS doubles? :idea:

Not that 53-39 will ever go away... true racers, racer poseurs, and triathletes/time-trialists will make sure of that. 

And 53-39 is more average-rider-friendly than is commonly believed... plenty of ppl treat it a lot like a (gasp) triple, with the 39 ring being in-effect like a triple's middle ring... the one you stay in all day long, shifting only to the big ring for descents or fast group rides. 

And 39x13 through 17 is a perfect range for 'just riding around', with friendly one-tooth jumps throughout that range even (unless your cassette is 11-28 or something). Though it is odd that one of the slams against compacts is riders complaining that they're 'crossed up' in them when using their favorite gears... plenty of ppl ride 53-39 in near small-small combos all the time.

But a major drawback with 53-39 is, of course, that if your go-to flatland gears are on the small ring _already_, you're not going to have much more range going down, at least not without some pretty big jumps towards the end of the cassette, or a whole lot of cogs, or both. Seems like Shimano et al will keep making money off us by selling 'one more cog' drivetrain upgrades every few years for quite some time to come. 

With compacts, the go-to gears are on the big ring, at least if you're running a 34t. So its challenge then would be the opposite... to get big enough top gears with the remaining upward jumps that are available. And you get more upward jumps if you put the go-to gears nearer to cross-up territory, and/or have more cogs. 

Triple-lovers will smirk and point at both 53-39 and compacts and go, "Gee, three rings doesn't seem so bad now, does it?". But of course, triples have plenty of their own knocks- weight, complexity, ease of setup/adjustment, Q-factor, aesthetics, etc. There is no free lunch. 

When does it all stop? I dunno... maybe with 14 cogs in back, with 52/36 up front? Then ppl will argue about how their 11-29 cassette is 'more than enough', while others will say the '11-36 is totally worth it' because they can type on their iPhones and eat hot dogs while climbing in their 1-to-1 low gear. 

Stuff like this never gets resolved fully, because everyone is different. And the debates never end because ppl always lose sight of that fact.
.


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## Dereck (Jan 31, 2005)

Systemshock\
Quote>>>But a major drawback with 53-39 is, of course, that if your go-to flatland gears are on the small ring already, you're not going to have much more range going down, at least not without some pretty big jumps towards the end of the cassette, or a whole lot of cogs, or both. Seems like Shimano et al will keep making money off us by selling 'one more cog' drivetrain upgrades every few years for quite some time to come. >>>

You hit it right there! What's the point in selling something that ensures the 'consumer' won't buy another down the road? 'New! and Exciting! about covers it all.

Sure, there'll be something along soon. Shimano just buried both shift and brake cables under bar tape - and upped their prices. Campag added that eleventh cog to the oily mass on the back - and upped their prices.
(Meanwhile Performance et al are peddling a New! Exciting! shifter and drivetrain system that's much cheaper all round)

This would suggest that the next step is 11 speed non-backwardly compatible Shimano. 

Perhaps followed by 34/48 - for those who just don't care to go fast - and 36/51, for those who want a little more out of their 'compact' cranks?

Maybe after a few years, a new triple will be out there, New! Exciting! for eager consumers desperate to buy new toys.

How long before iSpend releases the iSpendBike (with iSpendPhone holder moulded into the CF bars) and an iSpendApp for calculating where you are, how far/fast/wattage and how many minutes you've used? That would beat any squabble over chainring sizes.

Not a bad idea, as long as you can ride it on all roads, all the time 

D


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## nor_cal_rider (Dec 18, 2006)

Living in northern California, either you have legs-o-steel to climb some of these mountain passes with traditional crank gearing, or you go to a compact (or triple) to save your knees. I'm no racer and prefer the mountains (most of my training/fun rides have 1000-2000 ft of climbing) to the flat valley rides, so a compact with 12x27 works just right. YMMV.


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## speed metal (Feb 8, 2007)

I say dislike on the compact. I bought a carbon FSA team Issue, Did I have issues:mad2: .......The chain would ride on (not fall completely on) the small ring when shifting down from big ring if in the smaller cogs on rear cassette. I left the 25-12 on my rear wheel. 25 tooth was to low to be used most times, although handy for easy/recovery rides. I see it as over-gearing for hard group rides or races I never used the 25 and rarely the next one down.
I'm now not a big fan of the compact or FSA.
For "ME" I like standard but, a compact maybe great for others.


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## C-40 (Feb 4, 2004)

*thoughts...*

My Campy compact cranks work perfectly - no shfting problems whatsoever. After riding into the Colorado mountains for nearly 7 years, I've moved further northeast and I'm now too far to the east to reach the mountains easily, so I'm back to riding the flatlands (boring as can be). My compact cranks work fine for that, too. I can big ring my whole ride if I choose. Oddly enough, I used an 11-25 for the mountains, but I'm using a 12-27 right now. That's one reason I rarely need the little ring. Back in the days of 9 speed, I used a 53/39 with a 12-21 for this type of terrain.


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## Ventruck (Mar 9, 2009)

*Late to the party. (Holy long post)*

Kinda ignorant of other posts as there's quite a lot to follow, but to drop my 2 cents:

Picked up a Shimano R700 Compact (50/34) to replace my Race Face Cadence (53/39). If you saw my thread in The Lounge, this was mostly an aesthetic-based decision.  But as a hill guy, I became intrigued by how the 34 would affect me. Played a numbers game with Sheldon's calculator to find that perhaps I should go 2 gears over my usual before riding.

After riding, I find myself a caught a little off-guard. Had the expected "d00d m i cross chaining" thought but let that to rest because I was thinking of something else. That something else was the ride itself. No, I didn't magically gain a mi/h or two (technically, I did in some of my known slower areas of my familiar climb), but the rhythm was more on point, and I was more flexible with my "launching" into breakaways. 

You may be thinking: well duh, it's an obvious case of me liking more cadence which is expected to come with the 34 gear....ONLY if I decided to be in the same exact cassette gears as I normally would. I didn't. As said before, I played with numbers to see what was more similar to my previous gear utilization. Went a bit further to look at things. The attached photo should be straight forward, with me comparing speed, GI, cadence, and numerical cassette gear (outputs credited to Sheldon's calculator).

I'm not sure what to make of it exactly - especially when lacking power and applied force statistics - but I will say that I've acquired a liking to the 34 and performing pretty close to what I get with the 39, but for some reason I feels better. Only conclusion I can make is what I circled: That 13-14mi/h pace with the 34t x 5th gear (17t) combo is more flexible than rest of the gear combos. The concept is actually obvious, but I think "on paper" is what makes things more revealing. I tend to dwell in that speed range on (7-10%) climbs *with my given ability, and so I'm benefiting off of that heavily*.

Not only am I pushing a lighter GI, but _this particular gear combo is wider_, meaning I can "rest" in this gear without as much of drop in cadence as opposed to with the 39t, which would yield the need to perhaps downshift. IOW, I'm pretty sure this means I'm maintaining more power throughout the (rpm) "powerband" (think automobile dyno charts).

Oh well, not saying I found something amazing. This "finding" is not applicable to everyone. My mistake if this was pointed out somewhere else in this topic.


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## SystemShock (Jun 14, 2008)

Dereck said:


> You hit it right there! What's the point in selling something that ensures the 'consumer' won't buy another down the road? 'New! and Exciting! about covers it all.
> 
> Sure, there'll be something along soon. Shimano just buried both shift and brake cables under bar tape - and upped their prices. Campag added that eleventh cog to the oily mass on the back - and upped their prices.
> (Meanwhile Performance et al are peddling a New! Exciting! shifter and drivetrain system that's much cheaper all round)
> ...


Yup. I would not bet against that prediction. 

Though it won't happen this year... anyone even remotely in the know I've talked to says that if Shimano had 11-spd ready to go this year, there would've been some hint of it by now. Expect a fairly boring Eurobike and Interbike this year. 

I would think they'd do it in the next year or two, though... and if they don't, SRAM eventually will. But if Shimano leads the way, they may even go to the 135mm dropout spacing standard (and market it as "practical" 11-spd). At a certain number of cogs, you'd almost have to... between chain durability, wheel dish, and the redonkulous number of cogs/limited space, something has to give. 

And we'll be on this upgrade merry-go-round for probably another 15 years or so (@ around 14 cogs by then), or until a practical, uber-light bike CVT system comes out... whichever comes first.

Eventually, the 'Holy Grail' will be achieved... a very wide-range, very rider-watt-conserving CVT system that's electronically-shifted and electronically-controlled, and which auto-shifts for all the numbnuts out there who can't figure it out for themselves. Ppl will argue on forums like these over which shifting algorithm is best... and there really will be 'an app for that'. :skep:

And the numbnuts will be happy as clams, but hardcore bikies and old-schoolers will be disgusted. 
.


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## ph0enix (Aug 12, 2009)

Wookiebiker said:


> I can spin the 48x12 up to around 42-43 mph...


Really? You spin at around 140rpm or does your bike have unusually large wheels?


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## drewmcg (Sep 19, 2005)

Dereck said:


> ...
> 
> Having moved to where the roads are my idea of ideal - Chicago, where it's flat for a long ways around ...
> D


O.K., there goes your credibility right there. Chicago=ideal cycling?! Too many people; way too many cars; and the only nice place to cycle (along the lakeshore) is mostly un-rideable in the summer, unless you enjoy plowing into 10-year-olds or doing a crawl . . . .

Maybe if you're a hipster riding Milwaukee Ave. to/from Wicker Park, in which case you ride a fixie (or ss) anyway, such that you're Off Topic here!


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## cs1 (Sep 16, 2003)

SystemShock said:


> But if Shimano leads the way, they may even go to the 135mm dropout spacing standard (and market it as "practical" 11-spd).


That would be great. Because Campy would reluctantly follow. Then I can finally build my Campy 10 sp MTB with genuine Campy hubs.


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## Drew Eckhardt (Nov 11, 2009)

cs1 said:


> That would be great. Because Campy would reluctantly follow. Then I can finally build my Campy 10 sp MTB with genuine Campy hubs.


Show a little more dedication to Tulio and don't wait 

Campagnolo Record OR hubs differ from the same vintage 8 speed Record/Chorus only in the axle and a spacer on the left side.

10mm axle Exadrive 8 speed hubs differ from the following 10mm axle 9 (and therefore 10/11) speed hubs only in the freehub body and sometimes a single washer on the right side. The upgrade is trivial when you have the parts.

So a little scavenging should get you 10 speed Campagnolo mountain bike hubs with classic aesthetics.


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