# the endless search for a comfortable saddle



## moserbike (Jul 10, 2010)

Yes, I have searched and searched for saddles. I have done tons of searching on this sight. I realize that saddle preference depends on the individual, but at this point I simply have no more ideas and have become somewhat desperate to find something that is at least reasonably comfortable. 

I have tried these saddles so far:
Fizik aliante, bontrager, terry fly, several models from wtb, and about 5 others.

I have had a fitting done, which seemed very thorough with tons of measurements and alignment fitting. I have attempted to move the positioning on the bike around, move the bar height, seat height, change pedal style, get out of the saddle, adjust saddle tilt. This has all basically been a 3 year process. Still after only like 5 miles, I experience discomfort. When I go to use the restroom after riding, it stings and is often painful. I have gone to the Dr. to ensure no issues that are causing this such as cancer. All checked out without issue.

My thoughts are to:
1) try the ISM adamo saddle which looks as though it has no nose.
2) try some other type of fitting

Anyone have other ideas or possibilities I could try? I really enjoy riding and training for crits but it has been very difficult because of the pain.


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## tihsepa (Nov 27, 2008)

I have to say it. Try a good old Brooks. I have never had a bit of discomfort on one. I have ridden a bunch of saddles but nothing like my Brooks. Everything has one now.


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## jake21 (Jul 29, 2005)

Specialized Toupe. May want to try it.


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## PlatyPius (Feb 1, 2009)

Brooks.
B-17 Narrow.


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## f3rg (May 11, 2008)

Selle Italia SLR XP

I typically pay around $40 for them on eBay, used but perfect, or new bike take-offs. Starting a small collection at the moment.


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## Dave Hickey (Jan 27, 2002)

I hate to say it but it sounds more like position than the saddle...If you've tried a variety of saddles and they all offer discomfort, the saddle isn't likely your issue...

Where is the pain? 
How much saddle to bar drop do you have?


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## blkwtr (Aug 5, 2010)

I bought a Brooks B17 narrow last summer and have ridden about 2,000 miles with it. While I don't think any bicycle saddle is comfortable, when you get used to the Brooks, you won't know it's there.


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## Gimme Shoulder (Feb 10, 2004)

Dave Hickey said:


> I hate to say it but it sounds more like position than the saddle...If you've tried a variety of saddles and they all offer discomfort, the saddle isn't likely your issue...
> 
> Where is the pain?
> How much saddle to bar drop do you have?


This was my first impression as well. I have to say that an uncomfortable saddle is one thing. I've had several. But to cause pain in the restroom afterwards? And discomfort after only 5 miles? Something really seems not right to me. My Spidy sense says your fit is off. It could be something as simple as saddle tilt and/or fore and aft positioning. But something... I know you've said you've done all kinds of adjustments, but sometimes these things are counterintuitive. What seems like it ought to help, makes it worse, and vise versa. It might be worth while to get another fitting by somebody different than before.

Another relevant question is how many miles do you put in? Are you giving your butt enough ride time to get used to these saddles?


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## fastfed (Jan 13, 2011)

seriously.. if it really is that bad, and if it was that bad for me.. I don't give a damn, but you bet your ass (no pun) I would have this on my bike by now..


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## ghostryder (Dec 28, 2009)

I had the sAme issues. Went with the specialized toupe. Very nice and comfy. Another post mentioned that. You should definitely try it.


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## SlowMover (Jun 6, 2010)

The Romin saved my life. Well not literally, but it saved my cycling career. I had your exact symptoms coming on during long rides, then as the inflammation became worse it would take me down inside of an hour. It takes a bit of tweaking to get perfect, but the 'flow' as it were of blood to my bits is great, my urologist said my infection is gone and I'm LOVING it. 

Might be worth a try to stop at a Specialized dealer and sit on the assometer. FWIW I tried a Toupe and it felt good as well, but the Romin was just a smidge better for me.


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## Hank Stamper (Sep 9, 2009)

Gimme Shoulder said:


> This was my first impression as well. I have to say that an uncomfortable saddle is one thing. I've had several. But to cause pain in the restroom afterwards? And discomfort after only 5 miles? Something really seems not right to me. My Spidy sense says your fit is off. It could be something as simple as saddle tilt and/or fore and aft positioning. But something... I know you've said you've done all kinds of adjustments, but sometimes these things are counterintuitive. What seems like it ought to help, makes it worse, and vise versa. It might be worth while to get another fitting by somebody different than before.
> 
> Another relevant question is how many miles do you put in? Are you giving your butt enough ride time to get used to these saddles?


+.1 After I decided I wouldn't call troll here that was my reaction as well.

5 miles? After three years or fits and saddles?

Also, while you've got much bigger fish to fry for now don't underestimate the role of having the right chamois for you.


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## kookieCANADA (Jan 20, 2011)

I have the ISM Adamo Road saddle (many saddles to choose from) and have no issues with it. I can ride for 4-5 hours without discomfort or pain. Long story short, I injured myself on a stationary bike a few years ago (due to bad saddle) eventually had to go to the hospital (quite embarrassing).

It's the nose that helps...especially when you are in the aero position.


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## Guest (Feb 15, 2011)

jake21 said:


> Specialized Toupe. May want to try it.


+1 

Nothing compares!


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## Tommy Walker (Aug 14, 2009)

I have a Selle Italia Gel Flow Flite Max and like it. I have been considering the ISM Adamo, but not experiencing any stinging as you mentioned.

The saddles you mentioned don't appear to have a cutout, you may want to consider that, but from what I have read about the ISM, that's probably a good move.


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## PlatyPius (Feb 1, 2009)

Burning urination after riding isn't all that uncommon. It can be influenced by several things. How much you sweat when riding, which way you "hang", how dehydrated you are, your sugar level, bladder infections, UTIs, and yes, bicycle fit.

I get it frequently. For me, it's a little of all of the above.


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## ZoSoSwiM (Mar 7, 2008)

Are your shorts or bibs working for you? Might want to try other brands of padded shorts and see if they make a difference.


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## Doggity (Mar 10, 2006)

Brooks B17...you get it positioned right, your weight is on your sit bones (ishchia), _not_ yer soft tissue. You'll _know_ it the first time you feel it, quite an epiphany. No more Mr. Wiggly going numb, no more saddle soreness. Heh...I don't even NEED no stinkin' Spandex riding shorts with a built in diaper, with a B17. Mr. Fred here did his last century in regular shorts and underwear, and was _fine...._I dunno what happened to the cycling world, but I think we've really lost our way, mindless copying the racers all the time, whether it makes sense for us or not. If it ain't broke....


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## Mapei (Feb 3, 2004)

The Brooks B17 was perhaps the single most uncomfortable saddle I ever used in my bicycling life. The only saddle that gave the B17 a run for its money in the Hell-Under-Your-Shorts derby was the solid plastic number that came standard equipment with my Gitane Tour de France back in 1971.

Then again, I have never had a saddle that I could truly call comfortable. The closest to the ideal was a mid-2000's padded Fizik Vitesse. When it broke and I had to replace it, I discovered they'd decided to "improve" the thing. The updated model? Meh. Now I'm on a Fizik Antares. Not bad. Plenty of blood flow. Numbness is pretty much a thing of the past. Eventually, though, because your weight is almost entirely on your sit bones, those sit bones become pretty sore.


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## Wookiebiker (Sep 5, 2005)

Saddle choice is so individualized it's hard to give any advice on the internet that will work for you.

You had a fitting done...what did that tell you? Most of the saddles you are using sound like they are on the narrow side and it could be nothing more than needing a wider/flat saddle than you are using.

I know from my own experience that I can't go with a saddle less than 155mm wide or my sit bones sit off to the sides of the saddle making for extreme discomfort. The other aspect to a saddle is how flat it is...the flatter the better for me.

So with that in mind, I can look at a saddle and it's dimensions and tell whether I'll be able to get comfortable on it or not. Padding makes little difference in comfort and for the most part the longer you ride the less padding you want. This is because your butt will settle into a well padded saddle and actually increase discomfort over time. Less padding keeps this from happening...so what may initially feel uncomfortable may change after an hour or two in the saddle.

My persona saddle of choice is the Selle San Marco Glamour Aspide...which is a womens saddle, but works for me. However, they have changed the design around a little and I'm not so sure the new ones will work that well for me. If I had the money I'd try a 155mm Specialized Toupe, but other than that...I don't have any real options.

I'd try getting another "Butt" fitting done and see how wide your sit bones are and start from there.


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## krisdrum (Oct 29, 2007)

A bit surprised no one has mentioned Selle SMP. I know they are a bit pricey, but definitely have a "relief channel" that would take alot of pressure off the soft tissue. There are a few places that will ship you a demo (here is one of them) to try for a week and then return to then. Pick one of their saddles in approximately the right width for you and give it a try.


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## fastfed (Jan 13, 2011)

IT seems with seats, its really hard to test them out.. Sadly it seems you have to buy it, and then 100 miles later you'll know if its truly comfortable or not..


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## Wookiebiker (Sep 5, 2005)

krisdrum said:


> A bit surprised no one has mentioned Selle SMP. I know they are a bit pricey, but definitely have a "relief channel" that would take alot of pressure off the soft tissue. There are a few places that will ship you a demo (here is one of them) to try for a week and then return to then. Pick one of their saddles in approximately the right width for you and give it a try.


Well, "Relief channels" are not always the best thing for people.

I can only testify for myself that I don't like saddles with them. They tend to create chaffing issues compared to regular saddles with no channels...and I stay away from them if at all possible.

The work for some people and not so much for others.


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## spade2you (May 12, 2009)

I require the love channel in my saddles, but that's not to say that everyone needs it.

Regardless, like the wookie said, it's a very individual thing. I could rattle off my saddles, but that doesn't mean they're right for you.

The important thing is to get the saddle adjusted and perfectly positioned if you switch. The perfect saddle can feel wrong if it's not allowing you to sit right. Moreover, you can't ignore that a good chamois is very important for long term comfort.


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## krisdrum (Oct 29, 2007)

Agreed, Wookie, I guess they don't work for everyone. I've had pretty good success though and figured I'd throw it out there. I'd settled on a Fizik Aliante for awhile and when I started to really increase my mileage and racing last year, found it was chaffing me. Adjusted, adjusted, adjusted, but still couldn't get it to settle down. Tried a few SMPs, went with the Glide and got immediate relief from the chaffing. Then figured out it is just a wee bit too narrow for me. So the plan is to move to the next size up this year (Lite 209). Now granted I think this is more a function of shape and width, not as much whether or not there is a channel. The SMP seems to just be a better shape for me.

And i do think demo saddles serve a purpose. If you get a week or so with it and can get a few hours on them over that time, it can give a good indication of whether or not it will work longer term. It may not be a perfect correlation, but it is better than guessing blindly or going just on width, as shape can be a major factor.


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## willieboy (Nov 27, 2010)

SlowMover said:


> The Romin saved my life. Well not literally, but it saved my cycling career. I had your exact symptoms coming on during long rides, then as the inflammation became worse it would take me down inside of an hour. It takes a bit of tweaking to get perfect, but the 'flow' as it were of blood to my bits is great, my urologist said my infection is gone and I'm LOVING it.
> 
> Might be worth a try to stop at a Specialized dealer and sit on the assometer. FWIW I tried a Toupe and it felt good as well, but the Romin was just a smidge better for me.


+1, Love my Romin, I'm on a 155mm, Wouldn't trade it for anything.


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## Terex (Jan 3, 2005)

I posted this on another forum, but I'm voting for either fit issues or some type of pelvic imbalance.

_For all manner of saddle info, go to these guys : http://www.wekeepyoucycling.com/en/

I'm pretty easy to fit, as long as saddles aren't too wide. I've been riding Fizik Ariones on all of my bikes. I recently rode a Selle SMP saddle (droopy nose, big cutout) on the bike of a friend of mine. It was unbelievably comfortable. Absolutely no pressure points. It's twice as much as the base Arione, but I'm definitely going to get one._


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## Wookiebiker (Sep 5, 2005)

One other thing on saddle fit...

If you haven't tried turning your saddle to one side or the other, give it a shot. Most people line the saddle up with the seat tube, however our bodies are not symmetrical and usually leg length imbalances, pelvic rotation, etc. makes your hips not line up on the saddle.

On my bikes I have the saddle pointed to the right by a few degrees. If I line it up straight it doesn't matter what saddle I use, they are uncomfortable...however turning the saddle a little makes a huge difference in comfort.

Something to give a try if you haven't.


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## teddysaur (Dec 30, 2004)

I strongly recommend you try Selle SMP. The bib/shorts quickly becomes irrelevant. 

However during my test period with their saddles, I had to make a few adjustments:

1. I need a wider and longer type and fortunately at that time, SMP release the "forma" series.
2. I need to lower my seat height. I realize that I am over extending my leg causing discomfort on certain part of my groin.

The only downside is SMP saddle is expensive but they are very well made. Their long rail actually acts like a suspension providing additional comfort on big bumps.


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## rgordin (Oct 22, 2010)

willieboy said:


> +1, Love my Romin, I'm on a 155mm, Wouldn't trade it for anything.


I recently bought the Romin Expert. If it continues to feel as good as it initially does, I'll be buying a second one for my other bike.


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## lopott (Jun 27, 2010)

Cobb cycling saddles - 180 day return period - cannot be beat. He invented the Adamo - great saddle for TT, but wide nose and ment for nose riding can rub the sit bones raw.
Give Cobb a call and discuss your situation.


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## Golfguy (Nov 20, 2010)

rgordin said:


> I recently bought the Romin Expert. If it continues to feel as good as it initially does, I'll be buying a second one for my other bike.


++1 on the Romin. 155mm wide has made a world of difference for me.


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## Mapei (Feb 3, 2004)

I found the Selle SMP to be like sitting on a too small toilet seat. The saddle also did something no other saddle ever did to me before -- it made my legs go numb.


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## Doggity (Mar 10, 2006)

Mapei said:


> The Brooks B17 was perhaps the single most uncomfortable saddle I ever used in my bicycling life. The only saddle that gave the B17 a run for its money in the Hell-Under-Your-Shorts derby was the solid plastic number that came standard equipment with my Gitane Tour de France back in 1971.
> 
> Then again, I have never had a saddle that I could truly call comfortable. The closest to the ideal was a mid-2000's padded Fizik Vitesse. When it broke and I had to replace it, I discovered they'd decided to "improve" the thing. The updated model? Meh. Now I'm on a Fizik Antares. Not bad. Plenty of blood flow. Numbness is pretty much a thing of the past. Eventually, though, because your weight is almost entirely on your sit bones, those sit bones become pretty sore.


'S true...there's no in between with the Brooks. You either love it, or hate it. No one saddle works for everyone.


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## moserbike (Jul 10, 2010)

*saddle pain update*

Thanks to all those that have posted so far to try and help me solve the painful saddle saga.

I went for a ride yesterday. It was supposed to be a 48 miler, well I made it 35 miles and simply could not continue. My butt was so sore that I rode three miles uphill without sitting on the saddle more than about 5 seconds at a time. 

I was riding the ISM saddle. It was great at relieving pain in the nose area of the saddle, but my sit bones were so sore and are still extremely sore today.

I have not been riding a bunch and therefore I think it will take awhile with most saddles to work in, but this was an extremely painful sensation. I have obviously had times where I had to try and break in a saddle, so I think I can tell the difference between that and the pain I was in yesterday. 

One individual on the ride again mentioned that it could be fit related. The last fit I had done, they made my position much less aggressive and more upright. I am wondering whether this is causing much more pressure and causing me to exert much more weight by actually sitting rather than resting on the saddle if that makes sense. 

I am considering getting another fitting done. Would you suggest simply mentioning to the fitter the long history of saddle discomfort and all the methods/adjustments that have been tried? Getting fit is certainly not inexpensive and I was hoping the last time I went through the fit process I would not have to go through it again for a few years. 

Next saddles that I am considering are koobi au enduro, terry fly, specialized romin, or the selle italia max gel flite. Oh, and I have tried the smp but I found it very painful on the sit bones. The suggestion about going with a wider saddle is a good one, and my next saddle will be at least 155mm wide.


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## kookieCANADA (Jan 20, 2011)

moserbike said:


> Thanks to all those that have posted so far to try and help me solve the painful saddle saga.
> 
> I went for a ride yesterday. It was supposed to be a 48 miler, well I made it 35 miles and simply could not continue. My butt was so sore that I rode three miles uphill without sitting on the saddle more than about 5 seconds at a time.
> 
> ...


I had same problem with the sit bones with my ISM Road saddle. It took about 4-5 rides for me to get used to them. I could barely lie in bed or sit up from the bed without my sit bones hurting.

I think the ISM website stated somewhere that it is normal to have sit bone discomfort the first few rides as your body gets used to the "new" position.


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## lopott (Jun 27, 2010)

Same experience with ISM road saddle. You have to ride it at least 200 miles and then the sit bone pain will go away. Don't give up on the saddle as it is great once you get used to it.


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## spade2you (May 12, 2009)

moserbike said:


> Thanks to all those that have posted so far to try and help me solve the painful saddle saga.
> 
> I went for a ride yesterday. It was supposed to be a 48 miler, well I made it 35 miles and simply could not continue. My butt was so sore that I rode three miles uphill without sitting on the saddle more than about 5 seconds at a time.
> 
> ...


What kind of shorts are you using and are you using chamois cream? How many total miles would you estimate you have on the bike?


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## MetaOrbit (Aug 22, 2010)

Golfguy said:


> ++1 on the Romin. 155mm wide has made a world of difference for me.


Add me to the list. Just put a Specialized Romin on my bike and did 26 miles today (after not riding for 2 weeks) - pain free. I thought the sit bone measurement tool was a gimmick, but now I'm convinced that having a wide enough saddle (155mm as well) has helped make all the difference. All the other saddles I was one felt like my sit bones were right on the edge of the saddle. No more.


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## moserbike (Jul 10, 2010)

*response to other posts*

In response to the last post:

1) I have been wearing some Nalini bib shorts. I have had them several years and think it is time for some new ones. I ordered same Pearl Izumi bib shorts to try in hopes that they will provide a little more comfort.

2) In a good training week I would say I probably get in about 6-8 hours of riding. That is about 2-3 hours a week on the rollers and about 3-4 hours of group riding on the weekends. 

I now have a Koobi PRS century saddle that I will be trying. 

A terry with cutout saddle is currently on the bike and has been the most comfortable so far. It is actually a women's saddle but seems to fit correctly.


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## JSWhaler (Nov 25, 2009)

A couple years back I tried the competitive cyclist saddle demo. I highly recommend it, just make sure you have plenty of riding time available.


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## High Gear (Mar 9, 2002)

moserbike said:


> In response to the last post:
> 
> 1) I have been wearing some Nalini bib shorts. I have had them several years and think it is time for some new ones. I ordered same Pearl Izumi bib shorts to try in hopes that they will provide a little more comfort.
> 
> ...



Don't give up. I went for like ten years being unhappy with ALL the saddles I tried. The Fizik Aliante (the good one with carbin/ Kevlar shell) saved my butt. Remember to get out of the saddle every five minutes or so. A bad chamois ( one thats not for you) can cause a lot of problems. Bunching can cause saddle sores. The shorts have to be tight on you. Good Luck


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## George M (Sep 25, 2008)

If your sit bones hurt, try moving the nose of the saddle down just a touch.


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## Cpk (Aug 1, 2009)

After 5 saddles I ended up with the Selle Italia Turbomatic team edition and the weird thing is that in the end the nose ended up slightly higher then the tail but it is totally comfortable for long, long periods.


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## George M (Sep 25, 2008)

http://pronetcycling.com/choosing_a_saddle.htm
This may help, but you still have to find the one for YOU.
I ride the SLK.


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## rgordin (Oct 22, 2010)

rgordin said:


> I recently bought the Romin Expert. If it continues to feel as good as it initially does, I'll be buying a second one for my other bike.


I could have written this. I have owned about 10 saddles, some of which are "classics" for comfort. So far the Romin is more comfortable and less prone toward causing numbness than any I have owned. Next week, I might buy one for my other bike.

That said, this is one area where individuals will have quite different experiences. I write merely to suggest that you might want to consider putting it on your "to try" list.


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## skygodmatt (May 24, 2005)

You have a condition known as "Platypus Syndrome".

The Platypus is a crazy animal built from spare parts laying around.....a duck bill...webbed feet..with poison stingers....part otter,duck, beaver...you name it. 
Your ass was built like a platypus. 

Seriously, I had Platypus butt too. 

A* Specialized Romin* saddle with the proper seat height and bar drop solved it. 
Now I am human again.


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## craigh-krph (Aug 14, 2011)

*Having a difficult time finding a saddle myself . . .*

I road a mountain bike 15+ years ago, but haven't ridden in a good while. I recently did a charity ride and decided to get into cycling again. 2 months ago I bought a Specialized Secteur as a first road bike. I was really hesitant to get a drop-bar bike but had several road riders encourage me to give one a try.

I really like the bike, but the aluminum frame really beats me up on our chip sealed roads. I live in a rural area about a 2 hour drive from my LBS.

Anyway, I am having a hard time finding a seat that is comfortable after about 15 miles / 1 hour on the bike. I am 5'8" and 145lbs with no muscle/fat on my sitbone area. I tend to ride the tops about 40% of the time, hoods 40% of the time and drops 20% of the time. I think that since my bike is a relaxed geometry bike coupled with my more upright sitting position I am on my sit bones more than the average roadie. Can anyone recommend a saddle that might fit the bill? I recently tried a Koobi AU Enduro. Put about 150 miles on it so far but it is killing my sitbones.


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## seppo17 (Dec 7, 2008)

Go to an lbs that sells specialized saddles. They can measure your sit bones, suggest a saddle based on that, and they have a 30 day return policy.

I probably went through 8-10 saddles, but for I did the specialized through the lbs.

The terry fly was ok for me, but the padding was too soft and the cut out too big. The next closest for me was the selle italia slk, but it was too narrow. I ended up with a specialized alias in 143.


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## disney (Mar 13, 2008)

Remember that most saddles were designed for small French and Italian men circa 1930 etc.. Until I tried a 155mm wide saddle, all saddles were painful after 2 hours. Now my Romin saddle can take me all day with no problems. Fit and design is the key.


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## craigh-krph (Aug 14, 2011)

disney said:


> Remember that most saddles were designed for small French and Italian men circa 1930 etc.. Until I tried a 155mm wide saddle, all saddles were painful after 2 hours. Now my Romin saddle can take me all day with no problems. Fit and design is the key.


 Just curious: I am about to try a Romin and my sit bones are 110mm apart. How far are yours? I went with a 143mm Romin.


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## willieboy (Nov 27, 2010)

disney said:


> Remember that most saddles were designed for small French and Italian men circa 1930 etc.. Until I tried a 155mm wide saddle, all saddles were painful after 2 hours. Now my Romin saddle can take me all day with no problems. Fit and design is the key.


+1 for the Romin and the 155mm. Love mine!


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## craigh-krph (Aug 14, 2011)

Again, you guys likeing the 155mm Romin how about giving us your size/weight?


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## willieboy (Nov 27, 2010)

craigh-krph said:


> Again, you guys likeing the 155mm Romin how about giving us your size/weight?


5'9" and 160lbs. Not sure what my sit bone measurements are but I'm a 33" waist if that helps.


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## craigh-krph (Aug 14, 2011)

willieboy said:


> 5'9" and 160lbs. Not sure what my sit bone measurements are but I'm a 33" waist if that helps.


I'm only 1 inch shorter, 10 pounds lighter and 1 inch less in the waist (and gaining). Did you start out with a 143mm or go straight to the 155? I guess if my 143 comes in and isn't comfortable I'll try sizing up.


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## willieboy (Nov 27, 2010)

craigh-krph said:


> I'm only 1 inch shorter, 10 pounds lighter and 1 inch less in the waist (and gaining). Did you start out with a 143mm or go straight to the 155? I guess if my 143 comes in and isn't comfortable I'll try sizing up.


I'm trying to get to your weight  A little more background. I'm 52 years old and just coming up to my first year of riding. My bike came with a Fizik saddle and it was 143. I didn't like it so at the recommendation of a friend I tried the Specialized Avatar. Nice but not perfect. Then to the Romin 155 expert. Love it.


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## craigh-krph (Aug 14, 2011)

I'm 46 and just started riding about 3 months ago. Bought a hybrid/comfort bike, then quickly switched to a road bike about a month later. My bike had a BG no-name that came on it free but I switched to a Koobi AU Enduro. However that hasn't worked out. 

I usually ride 10 miles 3 times a week, then do a longer 20-35 mile ride on the weekend.


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## captain stubbing (Mar 30, 2011)

just throwing this out there....but how much do you weight and what sort of tire pressure do you run?

running too high a pressure for your given weight can cause heaps of discomfort to your rump. I used to automatcially run the max (120 -125) and continually had comfort issues.

dropped to 90 - 95, as per a friends advice, and it went away immediately.


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## craigh-krph (Aug 14, 2011)

captain stubbing said:


> just throwing this out there....but how much do you weight and what sort of tire pressure do you run?
> 
> running too high a pressure for your given weight can cause heaps of discomfort to your rump. I used to automatcially run the max (120 -125) and continually had comfort issues.
> 
> dropped to 90 - 95, as per a friends advice, and it went away immediately.


That is sure something to consider. I weigh 145-150 and have been running my 28mm tires at 120. We've got some rough chipseal roads out here, so maybe 90-95 would be better.


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## Mapei (Feb 3, 2004)

captain stubbing said:


> just throwing this out there....but how much do you weight and what sort of tire pressure do you run?
> 
> running too high a pressure for your given weight can cause heaps of discomfort to your rump. I used to automatcially run the max (120 -125) and continually had comfort issues.
> 
> dropped to 90 - 95, as per a friends advice, and it went away immediately.


I'm currently 157 though I've been up to 165 in recent years. I always run my tires at the minimum recommended pressure, whatever that is. When I was using Michelin Pro Race tires, I was running in the low 90's psi. I have my Vitttoria Diamante Pro 25's running at 105. My high end Vittoria's (the model of which currently escapes me) are pumped to 115. The bicycle with the 115 psi tires, BTW, rides more softly than the one with the 105 psi tires.


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## captain stubbing (Mar 30, 2011)

craigh-krph said:


> That is sure something to consider. I weigh 145-150 and have been running my 28mm tires at 120. We've got some rough chipseal roads out here, so maybe 90-95 would be better.


yeha just experiment, do some research....there are a few threads on this topic.

generally, wider tires run lower pressure so 28s at 120 seems alot to me. . too hard and ride gets all jumpy, instead of your tires rolling smoothly over the bumps it bounces all over the place....even though it feels faster its not actually, and its more uncomfortable or your behind and hands.

the amount of pressure should be enough that you don't pinch flat. only really heavy people should use the maximum pressure.

occasionally, i've let my tires get down to like 80psi (i'm a bit lazy) and i've never pinch flatted....ever.


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## disney (Mar 13, 2008)

I am 6'3 . I had many excellent saddles , 3 brooks, selle blah blah. Some were comfortabe, The widest was never more than 151mm with some rivets on the Brooks reducing the support area. But crucially I always noticed a pain linked to width as well as in the usual rear / groin. I purchased a Rido 1 which is extremely wide and pain was gone. Using the Specialized assometer that indicated borderline 143/155. Then Specialized talked about fitting some of the well known pro peleton on a Romin and said that some of the pro riders were better on a 155mm. I think it is definately more than just the sit bone width but how the complete area takes the pressure of the hip joints etc The moment I rode one I realised that the shape in all aspects provided a support platform that was excellent. Plus the cut out is I believe an essental requirement for me. Also remember the angle, height and front/back position is crucial too! And remember the Romin has minimal padding. After a 6 hour sportive I can get off and walk normally without doing a John Wayne cowboy impression. I now think purchasing a saddle is easy, it is simply about the above parameters for IMO my rear and of course a decent pair of bibs, pearl Izumi pro in my case. I always use chamois cream. My wife's cheap large bottle of body something moisteuriser which makes her cross! There you go I have now solved everybody's saddle problem. !!!!!!!


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## craigh-krph (Aug 14, 2011)

Tried the Romin but it was a no-go. 143mm was to narrow for my sit bones, and it hurt just sitting on it standing still.

It has been banished to eBay.


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## disney (Mar 13, 2008)

That was my point, width is the first parameter, you should have tried the 155mm


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## Cpk (Aug 1, 2009)

craigh-krph said:


> Tried the Romin but it was a no-go. 143mm was to narrow for my sit bones, and it hurt just sitting on it standing still.
> 
> It has been banished to eBay.


If you've tried this saddle before then ignore this but the Turbomatic is awesome… for my ass, at 153mmn wide it’s easy to move around on, easy to settle in on, 220g is not feather weight but not a brick. I have mine with the nose a touch higher than the tail which would seem counter-intuitive but I tried it after some emails with the Selle Italia guys. I believe your ass will thank you.


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## JulieD (Oct 15, 2009)

I talked the boyfriend into buying an SMP (Stratos model) because of similar complaints after an hour or so of riding. He has ridden bikes for years but as of late no saddle seemed to work well for him. The SMP saddles are a unique design. They're not cheap, but if it works for you it's worth its weight in gold. He now has no complaints in the saddle department these days. Check out the website and consider demo-ing one from a shop or online.


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## Erion929 (Jun 10, 2010)

craigh-krph said:


> Just curious: I am about to try a Romin and my sit bones are 110mm apart. How far are yours? I went with a 143mm Romin.



The picture at the bottom of this Specialized page shows the correlation between sit bone distance and the saddle size:

Specialized - Technology


**


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## StiffandAero (Aug 21, 2011)

I rode and raced on uncomfortable saddles for years. Was introduced to the ISM by Adamo in 2007 and will never go back to a 'regular' saddle.


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## StiffandAero (Aug 21, 2011)

None of the cutouts on any saddle including selle smp and no padding saddles was ever enough. On the ISM the pressure is only on my sit bones, and that stays true when I'm in the drops


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## craigh-krph (Aug 14, 2011)

Did 24.5 miles today before I had a flat and had to call it quits, but the Terry Liberator Y Gel I just put on gave me no pain whatsoever. 

I plan on trying a Selle Italia Man Gel Flow as well.


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## craigh-krph (Aug 14, 2011)

Erion929 said:


> The picture at the bottom of this Specialized page shows the correlation between sit bone distance and the saddle size:


Sometimes I think the BG charts are a lot of marketing fluff. Everything they have says I should be in a 130 to 143mm saddle, but ALL of their saddles in that size are very uncomfortable to me. The 155mm saddles seem to fit me fine.


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## High Gear (Mar 9, 2002)

craigh-krph said:


> Did 24.5 miles today before I had a flat and had to call it quits, but the Terry Liberator Y Gel I just put on gave me no pain whatsoever.
> 
> I plan on trying a Selle Italia Man Gel Flow as well.


So these saddles have a gel in them? I remember how comfy the Vetta Gel was in my new (then) '89 Trek 1200. The problem was the gel would harden after a few years. I'm sure they cleared that problem up by now.


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## triguy01 (Aug 21, 2011)

For me, the only saddle that has worked is the Rido R2. It is awesome, and now the only thing stopping me from riding longer is my legs. No more pain. Try one.


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## Emdee406 (Aug 23, 2011)

After a numb 'wotsit' consistently around an hour in, I decided I wasn't going to let it spoil my fun. My LBS loaned me a Fizik Antares Versus, with the channel. Hey Presto...happiness and no more pressure, but at a price. I opted to support them and bought it there although I found it $40 cheaper online...hope they appreciate it!


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## Cpk (Aug 1, 2009)

Emdee406 said:


> happiness and no more pressure, but at a price. I opted to support them and bought it there although I found it $40 cheaper online...hope they appreciate it!


well that's the price for 'happiness'..... and trying before buying


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## ddimick (Aug 9, 2011)

I seem to be going counter to the trend and put on a 130mm Toupe last week. I rode a century on a Fizik Arione, which is 130mm width, and liked the sit bone comfort but not the pressure in the middle. The Arione is a great saddle, just not for me. The Toupe feels a lot better but I haven't done any serious mileage on it yet to know for sure.

5'10" 170lb.

Running tubeless at 95/100 front/rear. Considering dropping that down some more.


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## D&MsDad (Jul 17, 2007)

The thing that has the greatest impact on the comfort of a saddle isn't addressed in this thread, and that is - time in the saddle. The more you ride, the more comfortable ANY saddle will be.

I'm not saying that saddles cannot be more or less comfortable. I'm saying that, if you don't ride during the week and then bang out a 4 hour ride on Sat and a 2 hour ride on Sun, then your butt's gonna hurt. Spending a lot of time searching for a saddle that will fix this is a waste of time.

When I was riding a lot, I loved my Selle Italia Flite. I did lots of long rides, centuries, etc. with no discomfort whatsoever. I also rode a Brooks B-17N, same thing - loved it: lots of long rides, no problems. This past year I've cut waaayyyy back on my cycling (for a variety of reasons), and now I cannot ride either of those same saddles (same bikes, no changes to setup, etc.) for more than a couple of hours without discomfort. I'm less fit, and my sit place is not conditioned. The problem isn't the saddle, it is my fitness.



----------------------


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## GFish (Apr 4, 2011)

craigh-krph said:


> Sometimes I think the BG charts are a lot of marketing fluff. Everything they have says I should be in a 130 to 143mm saddle, but ALL of their saddles in that size are very uncomfortable to me. The 155mm saddles seem to fit me fine.


I read this thread days earlier and was curious about the wider saddles. Before today, I was riding a Specialized Avatar 143, according to the fitting jig, the 143 is what I needed. This saddle and size was definitely better then the stock saddle, except I kept inching forward on longer rides where the saddle is narrow and less comfortable. Even though this saddle is level from front to back, the back dips to the center which is why I probably kept moving forward. 

Anyway, after reading this thread, I purchased a Specialized Toupe Expert 155 today. Tonight I rode 27 miles and now understand why people love this saddle. The extra width was comfortable and felt very solid and stable. I really like the larger flat area on this saddle since I seemed to move around less. And maybe it's my imagination, but I thought the saddle made it easier to maintain a higher cadence and speed. I just felt faster. Perhaps that was only the wind. 

I'm not sure I could have handled this saddle earlier when I started riding in late may since this saddle has less cushion, but after turning my first 1000 miles on the ride today, this saddle fits and feels really nice. Now I just need some longer rides to ensure it's not just my imagination. 

Thanks all for posting your saddle experiences, this really helped me with a more comfortable fit. :thumbsup:


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## the_don (Mar 23, 2008)

Toupe 155 here, had it for years. 

I love it! Can ride all day and feel great. My sit bones took a little time to get used to it, but that only took 2 weeks.


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## .40AET (Aug 8, 2008)

Bontrager Evoke RL I bought 3 of these and love them. They come in 3 widths. I can finally feel my bones on the saddle instead of the soft tissue that is between them. I haven't had saddle issues since changing over to these. 

You may also want to try sliding the saddle forward a little to get your bones onto the wider part of the saddle. 

Good luck!


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## GFish (Apr 4, 2011)

I read this thread days earlier and was curious about the wider saddles. Before today, I was riding a Specialized Avatar 143, according to the fitting jig, the 143 is what I needed. This saddle and size was definitely better then the stock saddle, except I kept inching forward on longer rides where the saddle is narrow and less comfortable. Even though this saddle is level from front to back, the back dips to the center which is why I probably kept moving forward. 

Anyway, after reading this thread, I purchased a Specialized Toupe Expert 155 today. Tonight I rode 27 miles and now understand why people love this saddle. The extra width was comfortable and felt very solid and stable. I really like the larger flat area on this saddle since I seemed to move around less. And maybe it's my imagination, but I thought the saddle made it easier to maintain a higher cadence and speed. I just felt faster. Perhaps that was only the wind. 

I'm not sure I could have handled this saddle earlier when I started riding in late may since this saddle has less cushion, but after turning my first 1000 miles on the ride today, this saddle fits and feels really nice. Now I just need some longer rides to ensure it's not just my imagination. 

Thanks all for posting your saddle experiences, this really helped me with a more comfortable fit.


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## Pocatello2000 (Nov 16, 2005)

Selle San Marco Mantra


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## oldcrank (Nov 7, 2009)

Fizik Antares.

Took me 400 miles to get there, but yesterday, i could not wipe the grin off my face!
Even my cheeks were, well, never mind.


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## Emdee406 (Aug 23, 2011)

oldcrank said:


> Fizik Antares.
> 
> Took me 400 miles to get there, but yesterday, i could not wipe the grin off my face!
> Even my cheeks were, well, never mind.


+1 Best saddle for me too, the saddle that came with my bike as standard was designed by the Marquis De Sade. My Fizik felt better from the first ride!


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## kbwh (May 28, 2010)

JulieD said:


> I talked the boyfriend into buying an SMP (Stratos model) because of similar complaints after an hour or so of riding. He has ridden bikes for years but as of late no saddle seemed to work well for him. The SMP saddles are a unique design. They're not cheap, but if it works for you it's worth its weight in gold. He now has no complaints in the saddle department these days. Check out the website and consider demo-ing one from a shop or online.


^This. Steve Hogg likes them too.




Mapei said:


> I found the Selle SMP to be like sitting on a too small toilet seat. The saddle also did something no other saddle ever did to me before -- it made my legs go numb.


There is no _the Selle SMP_. They have 13 variations of shapes and padding on offer for adults. Which one gave you pains?


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## longbeachbiker (Apr 29, 2011)

Here's my experience with saddles:

Fizik Aliante: Nice feel on the sit bones but the nose "pinched" my nutsack causing tenderness
Fizik Arione: Awful. Caused numbness and cramping in my hamstrings.
Selle Italia: Painful for the sitbones
WTB Silverado: Ok, but difficult to get into the correct position on the saddle. Fore and aft positions had to be spot on.
WTB Pure V: Awesome. My current saddle. It's bit heavy but fits my ass like a glove and has the perfect balance between cushion and non-chafe hardness. Best $30 I've ever spent on cycling.


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## craigh-krph (Aug 14, 2011)

craigh-krph said:


> Did 24.5 miles today before I had a flat and had to call it quits, but the Terry Liberator Y Gel I just put on gave me no pain whatsoever.
> 
> I plan on trying a Selle Italia Man Gel Flow as well.


Did the 25 mile HHH on the Terry Liberator Y Gel with not pain, but it does seem a little "large" for extended rides. The back of it seems just a bit too contoured as well, big rounded knobs right below your sitbones. It hasn't hurt yet, but seems a little overly padded while wearing cycling shorts. It is probably a keeper, but would still like something better.

I've also got two 10 mile trips on the Selle Italia Man Gel Flow. No pain whatsoever on it, and with PI Elite shorts you hardly notice it is there. I'll report back after I've put a 25+ mile ride on it but it also seems to have potential as "the one".


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## craigh-krph (Aug 14, 2011)

craigh-krph said:


> I've also got two 10 mile trips on the Selle Italia Man Gel Flow. No pain whatsoever on it, and with PI Elite shorts you hardly notice it is there. I'll report back after I've put a 25+ mile ride on it but it also seems to have potential as "the one".


Well, scratch that. Did a 26 mile ride, half of it over rough chip-sealed roads. It didn't hurt so much while I was riding, but for the remainder of the day my sit bones were killing me. Seems like so far wider and more padding seems to work the best for me. Not what I would be expecting for 145lbs and boney butt.


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## 990rick (Sep 5, 2011)

After years of trying skinny seats, fat seats, cushy seats, I finally got one with a deep groove down the middle and am pretty happy with it. I wouldn't say it's really comfortable so much as it's not as uncomfortable after a few miles as all the others. The main difference is the reduced pressure in the privates. I'm calling that good for now.


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## craigh-krph (Aug 14, 2011)

990rick said:


> After years of trying skinny seats, fat seats, cushy seats, I finally got one with a deep groove down the middle and am pretty happy with it. I wouldn't say it's really comfortable so much as it's not as uncomfortable after a few miles as all the others. The main difference is the reduced pressure in the privates. I'm calling that good for now.


Yep, I've never had any pain/numbness in the "beans and frank" with ANY seats I've tried with a center cutout. Just can't seem to find anything that works for my sitbones for over 25 miles (1.5 hours).


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## SolidSnake03 (Jun 22, 2011)

craigh-krph said:


> Well, scratch that. Did a 26 mile ride, half of it over rough chip-sealed roads. It didn't hurt so much while I was riding, but for the remainder of the day my sit bones were killing me. Seems like so far wider and more padding seems to work the best for me. Not what I would be expecting for 145lbs and boney butt.


I'm sort of in the same boat here. I'm boney as hell being 5'8.5'' and 125pounds and found the more narrow saddles *Fizik Arione* to just crush my soft tissue. I'm right now riding a Fizik Aliante and I like the amount and padding and the shape however 5 miles in my soft tissue is hot...like angry and hot. Messing with saddle angle to see what I can come up with.

Like the Specialized Toupe in terms of soft tissue but the flat shape bugged me, felt like I was hanging off the sides 143mm by the way. Might try a 155mm Romin or something by Selle Italia if I can't get the Aliante to work.


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## Len J (Jan 28, 2004)

After reading this thread, I have a few comments:

1.) recommending a saddle that works for you is crazy.........no 2 butts are the same. IMO recommendations should be about how you found a saddle that works, not what saddle works.

2.) cycling shorts matter. Most people wear shorts too big. A new pad can cure a lot of problems. 

3.). The position of the "boys" matters. Pull them forward so you aren't crunching them between the seat and the rest of your anatomy.

4.) when it comes to seat comfort, small position adjustments matter. I've had seats that were torture set up flat that disappeared when the nose was raised a very small amount. The first time I try a saddle, I take an Allen wrench and make adjustments every few miles until I either find comfort or exhaust all adjustments. 

5.). The important characteristics of a saddle, FOR ME are flatness front to back, flatness side to side at sit bones, width at sit bones, width of nose. I can look at a saddle and tell if it will work for me pretty quickly now, but that is after a lot of experimentation. 

IME. 

Len


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## dekindy (Jul 7, 2006)

lopott said:


> Cobb cycling saddles - 180 day return period - cannot be beat. He invented the Adamo - great saddle for TT, but wide nose and ment for nose riding can rub the sit bones raw.
> Give Cobb a call and discuss your situation.


That is what I recommend also. Call and talk to John Cobb directly.
Cobb Cycling

The Selle SMP saddles are very expensive but are also go to saddles for cyclists with problems. Many models so get some help.

Also take a look at Selle Anatomica.

Where do you live? There may be some well known fitters that could be recommended.


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## Trek2.3 (Sep 13, 2009)

So you've tried 100 "conventional" saddles. None work.

Maybe you need to think out of the box.

Try one of these (if you don't like it, send it back w/in 60 days for a refund).

Are you concerned with lookin cool or with elimination that pain in the ass?

moonsaddle.com


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## kbwh (May 28, 2010)

That looks outright dangerous.


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## SolidSnake03 (Jun 22, 2011)

x2 I'm a bit scared of those Moon Saddles, I imagine some sort of horrible slipping off of it accident or something like that...


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## Trek2.3 (Sep 13, 2009)

SolidSnake03 said:


> x2 I'm a bit scared of those Moon Saddles, I imagine some sort of horrible slipping off of it accident or something like that...


I have them on three bikes and for over *7000 miles *with zero problems.


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## SolidSnake03 (Jun 22, 2011)

Trek2.3 said:


> I have them on three bikes and for over *7000 miles *with zero problems.


Impressive, hey if it works for you more power to you. I don't doubt the saddle works for some however for me it looks a bit odd/intimidating and my mind wanders to possible negatives or downfalls of it. Not saying I'm right or wrong just what my mind does when I let it wander...:idea:


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## craigh-krph (Aug 14, 2011)

On to the next saddle; a Terry Fly Ti. Did a 25 mile ride last weekend and had to make several adjustments to it. Wasn't what I'd call comfortable, but wasn't extremely painful either. Got it leveled out and did a 15 mile ride yesterday that felt real good. Planning a 35 mile ride this weekend to determine whether or not it might be the one.


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## Stumpjumper FSR (Aug 6, 2006)

Just picked up a 155 Romin EVO Expert tonight,only had time for a short ride but I think
I've found the perfect saddle.


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## Trouble (Apr 3, 2004)

Dave Hickey said:


> I hate to say it but it sounds more like position than the saddle...If you've tried a variety of saddles and they all offer discomfort, the saddle isn't likely your issue...
> 
> Where is the pain?
> How much saddle to bar drop do you have?


Almost all saddle discomfort is a result of improper bike fit and/or not sitting properly on that particular saddle's shape. Saddle height and bar height/reach are the two biggest culprits. Fore/aft to some degree.

I know this from much experience. It is incredible how an asshatchet can become a 70 mile saddle just because of how you sit on it.
One exception to this is that you should be within a reasonable width range of what you require.

Something I tell people and some of you will get it, is "Ride the Rami"


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## SolidSnake03 (Jun 22, 2011)

Trouble said:


> Almost all saddle discomfort is a result of improper bike fit and/or not sitting properly on that particular saddle's shape. Saddle height and and bar height/reach are the two biggest culprits. Fore/aft to some degree.
> 
> I know this from much experience. It is incredible how an asshatchet can become a 70 mile saddle just because of how you sit on it.
> One exception to this is that you should be within a reasonable width range of what you require.
> ...


I am finding this to be totally true as well. In light of recent developments I basically need to throw out everything I have determined regarding saddles and start from scratch. What I found is that if I force my hips to roll forward and down I'm much more comfortable. This happens on my old commuter bike but not on my newer bike. The newer bike is the one I have been having so much trouble finding a comfortable saddle.

The saddle I used to have on my newer bike was horribly uncomfortable for 4+ miles and when I rolled my pelvis,hips forward and down it was much better. Still not comfortable and I jarred up my arms forcing my body to do this but the lesson from it was crucial. I need a different bike position and posture not to keep trying saddles.


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## Trouble (Apr 3, 2004)

Rolling your hips forward without addressing the fit issue will put pressure on your perineum. I dare say that if your bike fit (saddle height, F/A, bar height/reach) is right, the "rolling" of the pelvis is naturally occurring and putting the ramus on the saddle.

If your saddle only becomes uncomfortable during harder/faster rides, this is a good indication that you are being challenged and your pelvic (in)stability is causing issues down the line.


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## SolidSnake03 (Jun 22, 2011)

Trouble said:


> Rolling your hips forward without addressing the fit issue will put pressure on your perineum. I dare say that if your bike fit (saddle height, F/A, bar height/reach) is right, the "rolling" of the pelvis is naturally occurring and putting the ramus on the saddle.
> 
> If your saddle only becomes uncomfortable during harder/faster rides, this is a good indication that you are being challenged and your pelvic (in)stability is causing issues down the line.


So the issue is that I think my bike fit is WRONG :idea: because I feel like my hips are NOT naturally rolling forward/down. I have to make them do that consciously. When I do this all of a sudden my saddle feels much better, my breathing feels easier and my legs feel stronger. These are not small changes either, there is a noticeable and distinct improvement in all of these area's.

I understand that you should not have to think about/force your body to do this. The set up of your bike should naturally cause your hips to take on this position. This is why I think my fit is off/wrong. I'm going back to the shop next wednesday and see what can be done.

I feel like on my Specialized Allez *the one with the bad fit* I'm sitting more like on a toilet seat if that makes sense. My butt/pelvis seems to just "flatten" out and be more upright. When I ride my Schwinn Le Tour *old hand me down commuter bike* I barely feel the saddle. My body is more forward and stretched out with a more forward angle. In this position the old broken saddle on the bike feels just fine, I feel like my butt+soft parts are barely touching the saddle with only the "supportive" parts making the right contact. My butt and soft tissue are actually touching/on the saddle but it just feels like none of the weight/pressure is on those areas, instead it's on bone or something where it feels fine.


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## Oracle7775 (Sep 16, 2009)

I've been on the Specialized Romin 155 for a couple of weeks now and I'm still working with position, but I think it's going to work out. Certainly no numbness; just a little soreness on the sit bones, which will "toughen up," I hope.


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## benInMA (Jan 22, 2004)

I have really come to believe that the root of "I can't find a comfortable saddle" is just the saddle being out of place.

It seems like most fitters can get your fore-aft position dialed in pretty easily, and it seems like they can generally get the angle close..

But for some reason, whether it is the training systems (Serotta, BG, etc..) or something else, they often overestimate your proper seat height. Sitting on a level trainer, pedaling easy with low resistance, no potholes, cracks, bumps, it's going to feel good, but once you're on the road and the bike is moving around under you, it's going to be too high.

I have been struggling through this for years after a series of Serotta-trained fitters grossly overestimated my correct saddle height.. they moved me up about 3cm above and beyond what I had historically used. At that saddle height pretty much no saddle was going to work.

I went to a fitter with a very different philosophy this year, and he took most of that 3cm out, and I'm riding a hell of a lot better (faster too), and the saddle issues are much better, and most saddles that are approximately the right width feel pretty good. But even his position is probably still too high, and I've had to lower things a few millimeters.

The thing is I think the saddle heights many of the fitters are coming up with on the trainer are only going to work if:

- You have nearly perfect symmetry
- You maintain excellent core strength and flexibility even as you fatigue
- Your feet are very stable, shoes fit perfectly, have orthotics, etc..
- Cleats are positioned exactly right
- You don't do anything odd as you tire.. (e.x. hamstrings tighten up and you don't roll your hips forward)
- You're riding on smooth roads.

They're basically putting us way up near our theoretical max saddle height.. works fine on a trainer, works fine when you're fresh, looks like it maximizes power output, but is a mess when you're fatigued after hours in the saddle. A lower position is going to be better in the real world


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## J24 (Oct 8, 2003)

You will be uncomfortable on any saddle no matter what "BRAND" its is if that saddle is not set up properly for you in height, set-back and tilt, and if necessary by getting the right reach to the bars by changing the stem length.

Also....the more time you keep your a** on the widest part of a properly set up saddle, the less problems you're likely to have.

I dont expect a fitter do more than get me in the ballpark, the rest I've had to fine tune myself


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## Trouble (Apr 3, 2004)

benInMA said:


> I have been struggling through this for years after a series of Serotta-trained fitters grossly overestimated my correct saddle height.. they moved me up about 3cm above and beyond what I had historically used. At that saddle height pretty much no saddle was going to work.
> 
> I went to a fitter with a very different philosophy this year, and he took most of that 3cm out, and I'm riding a hell of a lot better (faster too), and the saddle issues are much better, and most saddles that are approximately the right width feel pretty good. But even his position is probably still too high, and I've had to lower things a few millimeters.
> 
> ...



...and yet, people go into these bikes shops, pay good money thinking they are going to be fitted, be more comfortable on their bike only to have doofus break out the goniometer and plumb-bob. It's a ruse and a rip off.

Serotta is a joke.


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## Yolajeff (Aug 24, 2011)

jake21 said:


> Specialized Toupe. May want to try it.


The Specialized Toupe saved my [email protected]@.


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## gbarker (Jun 29, 2008)

benInMA said:


> The thing is I think the saddle heights many of the fitters are coming up with on the trainer are only going to work if:
> 
> - You have nearly perfect symmetry
> - You maintain excellent core strength and flexibility even as you fatigue
> ...


I think fitting systems and an LBS fitter merely get you in a range of possibilities. It is up to you to ferret out what works and what doesn't for you as an individual. The numbers are not set in stone. For me, I was fitted when I was 23 and tweaked that position to get it right for me. I am now almost 50 (next May) and my seat height hasn't changed at all. To that end I am likely at the upper range of what Fit Kit spec'd out for me. My overall reach length has changed shorter and longer over the years depending on my core fitness and how big my belly is (he he he). Take-home, compensate for your non-uniform body, only you know where the problems likely occur. Change things and listen to what your body is telling you. Good riding.


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## craigh-krph (Aug 14, 2011)

Update:

Have been riding the Terry Fly Ti for 3 weeks now. Sit bone pain is minimal compared to all the other saddles I have tried, but for the last two weeks I've had numbness in the nether regions after more than about an hour in the saddle. 

I've been loaned a Fizik Aliante and plan on trying it next to see how it compares.


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## SolidSnake03 (Jun 22, 2011)

Ok so went back to the place where I had my fit done and had my position completely changed. When from a 110mm stem and a level saddle to handbars to a 130mm stem with a large drop. Had all the spacers removed so the bars are slammed down and the stem flipped. This quite aggressive position actually feels much better to me, my hips are rolling forward and I feel better in the saddle. 

My legs and breathing feel better as well. So far I'm really liking the new position, my butt and bibs feel way better as well.

Looks like it was the fit and position!

However, I'm now back to finding a new saddle, so far the Selle Italia Prolink failed horribly with the rounded nose destroying my man parts. Tried an Arione and actually wasn't too bad, felt maybe a bit too narrow? Not totally comfortable on the soft tissue. Have an Antares right now and then will trying Specialized Romin and Toupe again I think. 

Seems like something flatter and slightly wider than the Arione might do the trick. It's odd but since the position change I'm now thinking a flatter saddle is the way to go based on my new big saddle to bar drop and hip position.

Any saddle recommendations that are flat and slightly wider than an Arione?


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## proguy747 (Jul 26, 2009)

SolidSnake03 said:


> Ok so went back to the place where I had my fit done and had my position completely changed. When from a 110mm stem and a level saddle to handbars to a 130mm stem with a large drop. Had all the spacers removed so the bars are slammed down and the stem flipped. This quite aggressive position actually feels much better to me, my hips are rolling forward and I feel better in the saddle.
> 
> My legs and breathing feel better as well. So far I'm really liking the new position, my butt and bibs feel way better as well.
> 
> ...


going through the exact same fitting. Feels great but the taint was sore. tried the Aliante VS Romin and Toupe. So far the toupe feels great. I have a cobb vflow plus coming and will give it a good try before returning and get a shc170 to try. The only other saddle i want to try is the selle smp in the plus size. Being a big guy I here great things about them. The problem is no one offers the plus in demo. Does anyone know a place I can order and reciev store credit if I do not like the SMP?


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## SolidSnake03 (Jun 22, 2011)

As a quick update, I just did a brief ride on the Antares and not bad actually. It felt a bit "present" on my soft tissue but was not hot or irritated. The only issue was with my one pair of bibs I was getting a weird pinch/pain on my left backside. The Antares was something I would actually consider since that ride wasn't bad at all.

I will be borrowing an Aliante in the near future and probably picking up a Romin and Toupe. Also, have an SLR Trans Am and a Flite. Figured I might as well try as many as possible and keep what works.

The Antares was promising to say the least since it felt the best so far with my new position. I think I'm headed in the right direction at least...


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## craigh-krph (Aug 14, 2011)

craigh-krph said:


> Update:
> 
> I've been loaned a Fizik Aliante and plan on trying it next to see how it compares.


Aliante fit me good in the sit-bone area, but didn't taper off quickly enough and rubbed my thigh/hamstrings. Slightly annoying on a 10 mile ride, but afriad it would really turn into a problem on a longer ride.


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## SupaDave03 (Oct 7, 2011)

Im in the same boat got my first bike I got fitted went out this weekend rode 15 miles with pain and discomfort at about 3-5 mile mark. When I got back home went to the bathroom felt like I was pissing needles ouch!!!! Bike came with a good seat according to the LBS where I was fitted. Im going to try the suggestions for the Romin or Toupe 155, because I dont want to feel that pain again NOT FUN!!! Which one would you suggest I try first.


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## craigh-krph (Aug 14, 2011)

I'm still searching. The Terry Fly Ti is great on the sitbones, but continues to cause me numbness and other male anatomy related problems. Have a demo Selle SMP Lite 209 on the way.


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## FTR (Sep 20, 2006)

Wow, some of you guys dont like to give yourself any time at all to get used to a saddle.



Steve Hogg on his initial experience of an SMP Composit saddle said:


> I ordered one and while the shape felt perfect, I was bone sore after long rides. If I rode the next day, as soon as I got on the bike I felt like I had taken up where I left off the day before with no recovery from the bone soreness. 2 and a half weeks later I was on the verge of calling a halt to the relationship when I rode a tough 100kms on hilly and rough country roads and finished the ride without having thought about my backside once.


From his Bike Fitting blog.


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## GRAVELBIKE (Sep 16, 2011)

I've tried all the popular saddles from Selle Italia, Selle San Marco, Fizik, Specialized, Brooks, and some I'm probably forgetting. Best one--for me--has been the Selle An-Atomica.


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## SupaDave03 (Oct 7, 2011)

craigh-krph said:


> I'm still searching. The Terry Fly Ti is great on the sitbones, but continues to cause me numbness and other male anatomy related problems. Have a demo Selle SMP Lite 209 on the way.


How does the whole demo a bike saddle work?


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## IcecreamLtDan (Aug 7, 2010)

It depends on the shop's policy, if they even do it that is as only some do it. Where I used to live the shop did it as basically a rental. You paid a flat fee to try out several saddles for two weeks at a stretch, the saddles were usually a used example or one from a rental bike of the ones they sold new. Once you chose your saddle a percentage of the rental fee was taken out of the price of the saddle you bought. I haven't found a shop where I live now that does it and I never did try it out at the shop where I used to live, but I believe there are still some online stores that have some variation of the same program.


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## captain stubbing (Mar 30, 2011)

craigh-krph said:


> That is sure something to consider. I weigh 145-150 and have been running my 28mm tires at 120. We've got some rough chipseal roads out here, so maybe 90-95 would be better.



even 90-95 seems like way to much for a 28 tyre. according to the michelin tyre psi calculator it should be about 75 - 80.

Bicycle tire pressure calculator


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## rgg01 (Jun 21, 2011)

I just want to update and say I've had a Cobb Max on my bike for just over a week, ridden 4-5 times different roads and a 30km time trial and I have to say I'm in love with it. Even straight on the bike not fitted well it was comfortable then with taking tools along and a few mm here and there and it feels incredible. I also fitted an adjustable stem and lowering my bars to a -15 degree angle along with a +2.5 degree upward saddle tilt has made 60-70km rides very much more comfortable than my Fizik saddle. My junk is happy!


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## craigh-krph (Aug 14, 2011)

First 27 mile ride on the Selle SMP Lite 209 was VERY impressive. Best saddle I've ridden so far. Plan on trying a SMP Pro model as well and picking between the two. These are excellent seats for anyone with crotch numbness / ED issues. Wish I had tried one sooner.


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## kbwh (May 28, 2010)

Read this, all:
ALL ABOUT SMP’S » Bike Fit » Featured » Pelvic » Steve Hogg's Bike Fitting Website


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## SlowMover (Jun 6, 2010)

moserbike said:


> Yes, I have searched and searched for saddles. I have done tons of searching on this sight. I realize that saddle preference depends on the individual, but at this point I simply have no more ideas and have become somewhat desperate to find something that is at least reasonably comfortable.
> 
> I have tried these saddles so far:
> Fizik aliante, bontrager, terry fly, several models from wtb, and about 5 others.
> ...


I have been at this silly game now for closing in on 30 years and I might be able to offer a tiny bit of insight that perhaps you have not considered. 

The evolution of saddle design has been very slow until the past 5 years or so IMO. Saddle widths were very limited and taint relief designs were very slim. Now most everyone offers a healthy blend of wants/needs saddle designs. Saddle posture and cleat/shoe config are in my mind the most ignored and misunderstood aspects of bike fitting...perhaps the most important as well.

Do you rotate your pelvis anterior or do you slouch like sitting on a bar stool? This will greatly effect the types of saddles you can ride comfortably. I'm not here to argue which posture is better b/c I know guys who ride both ways and are animals. I will say it effects how a saddle will fit due to where on your tuberosities contact the saddle. I'm an anterior tilt, flat back position guy. ISM and Cobb both fit me perfectly as I rotate up on my 'taint' quite a bit. Mind you that Cobb designed the first ISM saddles so they are both of his designs, at least the early ISM's anyway. The cutout relieves pressure on my soft bits and also allows me to ride in the drops pretty much all day. That is my cup of tea, but not at all for some folks. A wider in the rear saddle will in most instances be a better fit for a guy who sits with a posterior pelvic tilt.

Hope that helps in some way. Many moons ago I was able to ride one of John Cobb's prototypes and when the fitter explained to me the hows/whys of pelvic orientation it all started to make sense. *Most* bar stool pelvic orientations sit way back on their tuberosities which means you will most likely need a wider saddle as the anatomy gets wider back there....on all of us My Cobb is only 130 at the very back of the saddle so it would be totally incompatible for me should I try and ride it with a posterior tilt simply b/c my sits bones would be sliding off the sides. 

Make sense?


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## krisdrum (Oct 29, 2007)

kbwh said:


> Read this, all:
> ALL ABOUT SMP’S » Bike Fit » Featured » Pelvic » Steve Hogg's Bike Fitting Website


For sure. If the SMP Lite 209 seems to work, Steve's article will give some real insight into why, and if it isn't perfect will help you narrow down why and which saddle in the line might be a better fit. I found the article incredibly helpful.


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## craigh-krph (Aug 14, 2011)

krisdrum said:


> For sure. If the SMP Lite 209 seems to work, Steve's article will give some real insight into why, and if it isn't perfect will help you narrow down why and which saddle in the line might be a better fit. I found the article incredibly helpful.


Agreed. They are very expensive, but from what I've experienced so far they are an excellent saddle. It's really hard to put a price on comfort when you've searched for it for so long.


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## mattotoole (Jan 3, 2008)

I'm having saddle issues lately too. I've been riding the Terry Fly Ti for about 8 years. It took awhile to break in, but then it was great for a really long time. On most rides it was not comfortable at first but then softened up and just disappeared.

Lately I've been having pain under the sitbones, and overall discomfort. It takes longer to get comfortable, and is never as good as it was. I think it's just wearing out.

So today I'm swapping it for an old, low mileage Turbomatic 4 that I put on my mountain bike, but haven't ridden much. The Turbomatic 2 was a favorite, so I have high hopes.

Other good saddles:

As I said, Turbomatic 2

Old original Flite

A cheapo Flite copy from Vetta, with less padding but a softer, more hammocky feel. This thing was great but the occasional huge bump would make me bottom out on top of the seatpost. Ouch!

Brooks -- note how many RAAM riders use them -- but "managing" them can be a pain. If they get too wet or dry, they lose their mojo or even get ruined.

I've heard nothing but praise for the Aliante _Carbon_. I'll try one if the Turbomatic doesn't work out. A couple of big-mile friends swear by them. 

The WTB Rocket V seems to be universally liked, despite having as much padding as a sofa.

IMO the Terry Fly has too much padding.

Note: the amount of padding in your shorts can make as much a difference. I liked thin pads better with the Fly.

I've used about 10 others that were awful. One was a Bontrager Concor, another was an SDG. Hard as rock, perineal pounders.

OK, time to swap saddles and head out before it gets dark.


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## Fireform (Dec 15, 2005)

I ride 200+ a week and a couple of centuries a month. I would not give up my Aliante carbon.


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## craigh-krph (Aug 14, 2011)

It looks like after trying for about a month the Selle SMP Lite 209 is a keeper. Tried the Pro but didn't feel as well. I haven't had a chance to ride it more than 35 miles, but on my normal 27 mile course it has far surpassed every other saddle I've tried.


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## daethon (Sep 1, 2011)

Wookiebiker said:


> One other thing on saddle fit...
> 
> If you haven't tried turning your saddle to one side or the other, give it a shot. Most people line the saddle up with the seat tube, however our bodies are not symmetrical and usually leg length imbalances, pelvic rotation, etc. makes your hips not line up on the saddle.
> 
> ...


I've been thinking about this. I noticed that I'm never dead on and always fighting the saddle because of it. Thought it was just bad form on my part, I might try turning a little bit and seeing what happens.

BTW: I'm running a Fizik Tundra 2. I tried the Romin and hated it! After three weeks and 400 miles my ass and crotchetal regions were in constant pain and no circulation.

Love my Tundra2 though!


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## ClayFranklin (Dec 12, 2011)

I was uncomfortable on the Bontager Affinity and switched to the mountain bike designed Bontager Evoke RL. Feels much better. I'm still on the 30 day seat exchange so wanting to get it right for the Trek 6.2.

I like the cardboard trick.


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## edwin headwind (Aug 23, 2004)

Cpk said:


> If you've tried this saddle before then ignore this but the Turbomatic is awesome… for my ass, at 153mmn wide it’s easy to move around on, easy to settle in on, 220g is not feather weight but not a brick. I have mine with the nose a touch higher than the tail which would seem counter-intuitive but I tried it after some emails with the Selle Italia guys. I believe your ass will thank you.


+ 1 on the Selle Italia Turbomatic. Just the right shape for me & they can be had wicked cheap right now. I had a San Marco Regal that I just couldn't get comfortable on, it was like sitting on a 2x4.


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## julesverne (Dec 11, 2011)

Have had some problems with numbness in the lower regions. After reading several positive reviews about the Selle Italia Flite Gel Flow I decided this is what I need to try.

As I looked into different Selle Italia models more closely I found the newer Max SLR Gel Flow and the SLR Superflow. I haven't really found any reviews of these two but they seem to have significantly larger carve outs which I presume is even better for the prostate etc. (simply based on the size of the carve out).

My question to you is - have you tried one of the saddles, or both? Is it comfortable?
Which one would you prefer? Whats's really the difference between the two? They seem quite similar apart from the price (Superflow $300, Max Gel Flow $200) and the weight (Superflow 170-180g depending on width, Max Gel Flow 270g)?

Thanks


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## mattotoole (Jan 3, 2008)

So far so good with the Turbomatic 4. After the Terry it does feel hard, but overall pretty good. It has a smaller sweet spot. The suspension really does damp out road chatter.

Turbomatics have been re-released, but they don't look the same, and are mucho expensive.


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## darwinosx (Oct 12, 2010)

PlatyPius said:


> Brooks.
> B-17 Narrow.


If it fits your sit bones. Not everyone will. So then you would need a regular B17.


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## alexp247365 (Dec 29, 2009)

I suggest this as an alternative to guessing. You might even figure out how to set yourself up better on the bike because of it. 

Learn how to adjust a saddle yourself. 

If your seat post is too high/too low, too far forward or backwards, etc., a level saddle could feel like a hatchet. However, that same level saddle could feel great in a completely different position.

Also, alot of saddles have a kick-up in the back. This coincidentally is the widest part on alot of them. Don't be afraid to flatten the kick-up (which will make the nose point upward a bit,) but be sure to move the seat far forward enough so that when you sit on the back part, your not over reaching with either your legs or arms.


Good luck.


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## Kodi Crescent (Aug 3, 2011)

kbwh said:


> ^This. Steve Hogg likes them too.
> 
> 
> 
> There is no _the Selle SMP_. They have 13 variations of shapes and padding on offer for adults. Which one gave you pains?


I have one that I like, but I've noticed that my new shorts are all pilling in the same spot. I think the stitching is wearing my shorts out prematurely. I can't afford to replace shorts after 10 rides, so I'll be looking for something new and stitch-less.


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## Herkwo (Nov 8, 2002)

julesverne said:


> Have had some problems with numbness in the lower regions. After reading several positive reviews about the Selle Italia Flite Gel Flow I decided this is what I need to try.
> 
> As I looked into different Selle Italia models more closely I found the newer Max SLR Gel Flow and the SLR Superflow. I haven't really found any reviews of these two but they seem to have significantly larger carve outs which I presume is even better for the prostate etc. (simply based on the size of the carve out).
> 
> ...


I have been on a "perfect saddle" hunt for a looong time and have tried many mentioned here in this thread (Selle SMP Evolution, Koobi, Specialized Romin, and the two Selle Italias you mention).
For me... The Selle Italia Max Flite Gel was an adequate saddle for my needs and was the mainstay on one of my bikes but when I was finally able to try the new Selle Italia Superflow in a 145 width there was no turning back. I have since replaced the Max Flite Gel with another Superflow.
Bottomline, it is an awesome lightweight saddle with one of the largest cut-outs available. For me... It is extremely comfortable and I've put in a century on it with no issues.
Best price I've found is at Ribble Cycles for $160. Here is the link:
Selle Italia SLR Superflow 145 Saddle


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## clalor (May 29, 2010)

This is what I've been through in the last 18 months:


Selle San Marco Rolls reissue: Too rounded side-to-side, too flat front-to-back
Fizik Pave CX: Too narrow, too flat front-to-back
Specialized Toupe: Initially very comfortable, but too flat front-to-back, any ride more than an hour was painful
Specialized Romin Comp Gel: The best saddle I had tried to this point, flat side-to-side, curved enough front-to-back to not cause too much pressure when my pelvis rolls when I'm in the drops, but I still found myself moving around a lot trying to find the sweet spot. The nose was also too wide and the back part of the saddle always felt like it was digging into the back of my thighs.
Fizik Aliante: A nice shape front-to-back, but too round side-to-side. I bought the regular and the Versus models as the same time, but only tried the regular saddle. Even with the channel in the Versus, the additional padding on that model seemed like it wouldn't make a difference for me.
Selle Italia Turbo reissue: Same issues as the Rolls
Specialized Romin Evo Comp Gel: I've only been on this saddle for two rides of about 90 minutes total, but it seems like the one. The channel is a bit wider and deeper than the regular Roman, and the padding is about as firm, but thicker. The nose is also narrower and the back of the saddle doesn't feel like it's digging into the back of my thighs. I also don't find myself needing to move around on it constantly and it seems like riding in the drops is better as well (less pressure on the soft bits in that position). It's just plain comfortable. At least, so far.
All of the Specialized saddles I've been on have been 143 mm (I measured 128 mm on there arse-o-meter).

If the Romin Evo doesn't work out, my next stop will most likely be a Selle SMP.


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## mtnroadie (Jul 6, 2010)

+1 on the SMP, I have 2 Gliders (w.112mm sitbones) and looking for more, best saddle ever.

I like wider saddles, the SMP guys wanted to put me on a Evo or Stratos, tried the Stratos hated it. Glider is perfect for me.

Also the SLR XC gel flow is surprisingly comfy when on the hoods, but not in the drops.


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## SolidSnake03 (Jun 22, 2011)

clalor said:


> This is what I've been through in the last 18 months:
> 
> 
> Selle San Marco Rolls reissue: Too rounded side-to-side, too flat front-to-back
> ...


Your description of the Romin Evo is spot on here. I just got mine about two weeks ago and have been loving it so far. I rode both the original Romin and the Toupe for quite a bit. I'm a bit of a skinny dude and the original Romin had way too wide of a nose, caused leg/thigh rub and just didn't feel good. Had the same experiences as you regarding the Toupe as well, good for about an hour then it started to "dig in"

It seems that our rear ends have quite similar saddle preferences!


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## Kodi Crescent (Aug 3, 2011)

Does anyone know of a shop that has the SMP Avant that has a decent return policy? (30 days and unused isn't sufficient).


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## wanton007 (Mar 9, 2011)

Herkwo said:


> I have been on a "perfect saddle" hunt for a looong time and have tried many mentioned here in this thread (Selle SMP Evolution, Koobi, Specialized Romin, and the two Selle Italias you mention).
> For me... The Selle Italia Max Flite Gel was an adequate saddle for my needs and was the mainstay on one of my bikes but when I was finally able to try the new Selle Italia Superflow in a 145 width there was no turning back. I have since replaced the Max Flite Gel with another Superflow.
> Bottomline, it is an awesome lightweight saddle with one of the largest cut-outs available. For me... It is extremely comfortable and I've put in a century on it with no issues.
> Best price I've found is at Ribble Cycles for $160. Here is the link:
> Selle Italia SLR Superflow 145 Saddle


Can you tell me how high the saddle is? Top of saddle to the middle of the rail. Just want to make sure it's less than 50mm (seat mast problems and my post doesn't go any lower). 

Thanks,
Steve


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## tamato (Jul 19, 2008)

I've been ferry happy with my Selle Italia SLR Max gel flow. Very comfortable, nice wide cutout.


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## Full_Spectrum (Oct 30, 2012)

I ride the Spec Toupe, but am trying a Cobb this week- well, as soon as it isnt raining. I dont trust how it feels on the trainer for some reason and what some actual street time.


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## JoelS (Aug 25, 2008)

I don't know how many saddles I've tried. Been through the Brooks', SMP's, Fizik's, Selle Italia's, Specialized's, etc. The Romin Evo is so far the best, but still not right. I've got custom shoes, and a custom frame. I wish there was someone that made a custom saddle! Some way to make a mold and then build a perfect saddle. I'd pay a mint for that. But alas, I'm stuck with what I can find off-the-shelf. Maybe one day someone will make a saddle that fits me.


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## homebrewevolver (Jul 21, 2012)

jake21 said:


> Specialized Toupe. May want to try it.


love this... bent the rail during a cross race though.


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## Erion929 (Jun 10, 2010)

JoelS said:


> I don't know how many saddles I've tried. Been through the Brooks', SMP's, Fizik's, Selle Italia's, Specialized's, etc. The Romin Evo is so far the best, but still not right. I've got custom shoes, and a custom frame. I wish there was someone that made a custom saddle! Some way to make a mold and then build a perfect saddle. I'd pay a mint for that. But alas, I'm stuck with what I can find off-the-shelf. Maybe one day someone will make a saddle that fits me.



Just thinkin'....if you have all those saddles, why not try to customize one of those yourself? Maybe take the cover off one that nearly fits well and start playing with materials/shapes? :idea:

**


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## Keoki (Feb 13, 2012)

I have both the SMP Evolution and the Selle Italia Super Flow 130. Both are great, but I think I like the Evo better (I'm always going back and forth). Anyways, if you didn't care for the SMP I'd suggest you give the Super Flow a try as it will provide more support on sit bones and doesn't have the nose to kick up against your crotch.


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## HoldYaLine (Nov 1, 2012)

fizik arione w rails


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## FTR (Sep 20, 2006)

HoldYaLine said:


> fizik arione w rails


That is why you never buy saddles based on internet recommendations.
Any Fizik saddle I have ever ridden on has been the most uncomfortable thing I have ever sat on.


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## twiggy (Mar 23, 2004)

mtnroadie said:


> +1 on the SMP, I have 2 Gliders (w.112mm sitbones) and looking for more, best saddle ever.
> 
> I like wider saddles, the SMP guys wanted to put me on a Evo or Stratos, tried the Stratos hated it. Glider is perfect for me.
> 
> Also the SLR XC gel flow is surprisingly comfy when on the hoods, but not in the drops.


Hey man - if you're looking for another SMP Glider let me know! I have one in great shape, but I've learned that the SMP Dynamic is the saddle for me!... I've been trying to sell my Glider for that reason, but around where I live noone seems to even know what a SMP saddle is!


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## CHARLES M (Oct 17, 2012)

Searching is over in the case your fitter calls cyclologic and orders the gebiomized saddle sensor...


They track pressure points in use in real time on saddles until they get you a stock one that works. And if they get close but you want to go the extra mile... They will make you a custom saddle. 

Done.


Suggesting x saddle works well for anyone else because it works for you is just plain useless info.


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## rutabega (Aug 1, 2013)

The trouble the Brooks is that it is 100 year old design and it take 1500 miles to brake in. I traded my brooks in for a Carbon Comfort and am not looking back!


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