# Anyone ridden a Merckx MXM?



## Roger H

Was wondering about the ride quality. Not much on the internet. Thanks.


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## twelvepercent

Not ridden one but....
The quality is definitley there; they are made in Italy in a very similar (and maybe the same) method as the Fondriest Carbon Lex. The MXM is a one piece monocoque with many, many, different pieces of CF hand laid into the mold in many different directions, angles and layers. It is then "cooked" in an elaborate process under pressure.The idea is to have stiffness in certain directions and compliancy in others. I believe the MXM has a few kevlar layers in the main tubes. The post is the same size as Fondriest at 29.4.
I have a Carbon Lex and the ultra siffness with a smooth ride is very impressive; the overall quality is top notch. The Merckx carbon was the other CF I was looking at; but the Lex was alot cheaper. I really like the Merckx geometry, however, a little more relaxed angles( and longer H.T?); possibly making it a more comfortable overall geometry. I am sure you will be nothing less than blown away by the MXM.( The 3XM is alot cheaper and has the rear end attached; much like the Fondriest Magister; if you have the $, the monocoque MXM is the way to go) My guess is that Eddy liked the type of CF tech. that Fondriest and this other Italian CF mfr. use when he finally decided to put the Merckx name on a CF frame. From the mkt.ing Eddy wanted something super special for the 25th year and made the AXM which is an ultra eccentric ltd availability frame. 
The MXM is state of the art CF technology in terms of a super stiff race bike that has great ride quality. You may want to call Competitive Cyclist for some info...
good luck finding MXM riders!


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## Roger H

*Thanks for the reply 12%*

I checked out the Carbon Lex at Fondriest's website and it is very similar in appearence to the MXM. Geometry is different though.Wonder if they are made by the same people?


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## divve

unCompetitive Cyclist just likes to charge people up the a$$. The MXM at $1990 is about $700 less than the Lex in Europe.


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## twelvepercent

Wow!....good deal on the MXM in Europe
I like Competitive Cyclist for info.....definitley not their pricing!
Roger H : I would go for the MXM grey market as per divve; maybe he can tell us the best shop for Europe to US shipping, MXM pricing etc.


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## twelvepercent

Not made by the same people....
Look at Competitive Cyclist website & look under Merckx AXM; the last pharagraph of the AXM description notes that The Oria composites co. in Italy makes the Merckx carbon frames: "developing CF tech. before it became "all the rage" (late 80's-early 90's??) Oria is enormously respected in the auto and marine industries (w/CF technology)
Reading this decription I am now thinking that Maurizio Fondriest, while researching CF tech. for his new bikes( back in '01 or maybe earlier) , observed that Oria was at the leading edge of CF tech. and then decided on his own composites division in conjunction with Minardi Formula 1. Minardi craftsmen hand-make the Fondriest CF frames; the Fondriest CF division is located nearly next door to Minardi.
Minardi Formula 1 supplies composites for F-1 racing; no doubt high end CF tech. I am sure it is no coincidence that Marizio (Fondriest) and Eddy (Merckx) chose similar composite technologies; these men are perfectionists- (to say the least)
Either frame is top-end CF; the geometries and sizing are different, so maybe between the two, you will find a good fit.


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## dawgcatching

Well, wholesale here in the US for the MXM used to be $2400, now it is $2000 (maybe they were having trouble selling frames at $3200+ retail?) It is a nice frame, no doubt, but the Lex looks more finished and higher-end, IMO. I didn't ride the Merckx though, only looked at it-it still looked sharp.


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## Sablotny

*Where's this gray market gold mine online?*

Just in case I want to go shopping...


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## divve

http://www.salden.nl/

You need Java and the prices are list. To get the real price select the pull down the menu. For export pricing divide what you see by 1.19. If you know what you want, you can get a frame from this guy. Just don't expect any handholding or support, unless you're actually physically standing in the shop


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## twelvepercent

Excellent link divve....always good to have that euro connection


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## Maverick

Roger H said:


> Was wondering about the ride quality. Not much on the internet. Thanks.


Roger,
i owned the Merckx GX2 for 1.5yrs, and decided to sell it off bout a week ago.
GX2 and MXM are both similar frames (except the decals, which Merckx admitted to making a mistake on the labelling, read on @ Competitivecyclist)

My frame was the 44cm C-C (sloping top tube, as Merckx prefers to address)
Grouppo used is D/A 10speed, Synapsi bars, Arionne saddle, Ksyrium SL (2002 model)
CX6 pedals.
Bike weigh @ 16.2lbs.

The GX2/MXM is among the stiffest frame i've ever ridden. so pls do not expect it to be a compliant CF frame. frame is oversize at BB and downtube, so expect it to be harsh.


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## twelvepercent

Good to know about your experience........sounds very different from a carbon Lex.
Thanks for the response....very helpful.
Just wondering...have you tried a Team SC?......the ride seemed very nice for an all alu frame; the new "premium" may be a bit stiffer than the SC
Also, did you ever try other wheels on the GX-2/MXM?
I did hear that the "3XM" (seperate bonded rear) is supposed to be the compliant one....maybe just marketing.
I am realizing that carbon frames are not easy to make that are both super stiff and compliant....I think I got lucky with the Carbon Lex.


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## Roger H

*I have a Team SC*

Probably one of the nicest overall rides I've had. Just bought an MXM and was hoping "harsh" wouldn't be an apt description. Have gotten almost the opposite opinion from a couple of others, so I'm not sure. Had considered not even building the MXM and just trying to get my investment back, but my curiosity is pressing me to give it a try. More will be revealed, I'm sure.


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## sunninho

*I also have the Team SC*

Great ride, smooth over bumps yet light and nimble, if a bit twitchy. My other aluminum bike, a Felt tri bike (7005 Easton), serves its purpose well on long, flat, smooth courses. The Felt, though, redefines harshness on the same sketchy roads which the Team SC seems to glide over. Mine has a sloping top tube.


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## 633

Test-rode one, equipped with Record and Ksyriums. I was disappointed. The Merckx was one of the most beautiful bikes I've ever seen. I really wanted to fall in love with it. Couldn't. Felt very plastic to me. Did fall in love with the Merlin Cielo I rode next. I tend to prefer the feel of Ti, but of the carbon bikes I've test ridden, I would buy an off-the-shelf Tarmac or Madone before the Merckx. YMMV.


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## Maverick

*twelvepercent, roger..*

i actually owned the Team SC before purchasing the GX2/MXM frameset.

well..
here's my opinion/differences between the two frames.


Team SC
not that kinda frame that you'll fall in love with at the initial ride..
it took me bout 1 month or so before i found the magic carpet ride in the TEAM SC.
not as stiff, and not so much of a climbing frame actually.
the best part is once you reach the 35kph point, it's where it begins to shine. the Scandium alloy will smoothen out every bump on the road..and that's where the magic carpet thingy comes into place.
climbing is so so...however IMHO sprinting is equally as good as the MXM..

GX2/MXM
altho i ditch the TEAM SC for the GX2 frameset, i started to regret after about 2months or so due to the harsh nature of the frameset. its oversized BB and downtube is crazy stiff.
instant response is what you get the moment you put foot over the pedal. but of course there's a price to pay for that..harsher ride over bad surface roads. unforgiving.
on the flats, the TEAM SC will beat the GX2/MXM hands down (IMHO)..you cruise along easier with the TEAM SC, however you need to concentrate more on keeping up the momentum with the GX2. the moment you stop pedalling, your spd will drop drastically unlike the SC.
i guess that's the nature of sloping top tube frames..

let me know if there's any other question  

happy riding


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## Maverick

*twelvepercent..*

referring to the wheels..

i have the yr 2005 ZIPP 404 clincher, Ksyrium SL yr 2002/03, purpose-built CXP33 with D/Ace 10speed hubset.

IMHO..GX2/MXM with ZIPP 404 has the most compliant ride as compared to the other wheelsets that i owned.
i guess the deep section rims do take a large portion of the lateral shock away from the otherwise unforgiving frame.


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## twelvepercent

*Thanks for the replies....*

Good to hear some comparisons between the MXM and Team SC (along with different wheelset observations)
I have always been drawn to Merckx when looking at the geometries, and have also always wondered about the scandium alloy.
I am now hoping that I did not sway RogerH in the wrong direction with all the technical
theorizing in my post....(I may have been ASSuming...for shame!).


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## HXTi

Does anyone know the exact front end geometry of merckx's bikes? I referring to the head tube angle, fork rake, trail, and front center? I always hear about how nice the merckx ride but the geo charts never show this info. 

Also Maverick....thanks for the review...However can you elaborate on this point...

"..you cruise along easier with the TEAM SC, however you need to concentrate more on keeping up the momentum with the GX2. the moment you stop pedalling, your spd will drop drastically unlike the SC. i guess that's the nature of sloping top tube frames.."

Its hard to believe that on the flats any such thing would happen between two bikes unless the wheelsets were different and one had more rolling resistance. I know its not due to the sloping TT. Maybe the harshness transmitted let you feel the bike slowing down more than the softer frame even though both were functioning the same way. I'm not saying you didn't feel a difference but unless one had a lot more drag/rolling resistance they should coast at the same speed after the same given force input.


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## Roger H

*I was wondering the same thing...*

I couldn't see how a sloping top tube could make any difference.


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## Maverick

HXTi, Roger..

well..that's IMHO..
i can't be assure of that as well..but i do feel that it takes a whole lot more effort to keep to maintain similar speed with the GX2/MXM as compared to Team SC.

BTW..
my Team SC weigh @ 18.2lbs
GX2 weigh @ 16.2lbs

that's 2lbs difference between both bikes.

point to take note.
with ZIPP 404, GX2 feels so much better on the flats.possibly the additional weight making a whole of of difference.

i guess the lighter the bike, the more effort is required for cruising on flats.


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## Roger H

*Decided to try it...*

I've decided to go ahead and build the frame and give it a go. I'll report back after a few rides. Thanks to everyone for your feedback.


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## HXTi

maverick....your statements leave you very open for attacks....they do defy the laws of physics. But I'm not one to pick arguments and you seem like a genuine guy.  

Roger....
I'm sure you'll love your MXM. I was really interested in that frame for a while too. Let us know how things turn out.


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## Maverick

*thanks..*

HXTi,
pls feel free to correct me if i'm wrong..
no problem, let's learn and correct the mistakes if there's any.

Roger, HXTi,

I'll post a picture of my previous GX2 on 6th Aug..pls wait a moment.
and a pic of my current bike..

Roger,
Hope you'll enjoy your new frame.
It's a great frame, i;m sure u'll grow to love it..

Rgds


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## Roger H

*1st ride- Report*

The MXM was not harsh but it also has more tosional flex than any bike I've ever ridden. I was shocked and needless to say, dismayed. I never would have suspected that. I think I'm getting depressed.


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## twelvepercent

Feeling that compared to team SC?....
Sorry to hear that you are feeling torsional flex.....much softer than the team SC??
Maybe the new Merckx premium...Easton "flare" scandium tubing...supposed to be a tad stiffer than the Team SC. I thought some pros were riding the MXM, but I am not sure... the Merckx team bike is now the "premium".
I just bought a Fondriest carb-level plus '04 as a second frame...it has the same rear triangle as the Lex, same tubing as the carb-level, but with a 32.4 post instead of 27.2. $1299 @ Col. Cycl w/ post & external H.S.....they might have a few left.
RogerH; I hope you get it sorted out one way or another,
Regards


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## divve

More similar rear to the Magister and Luxter. Still not quite the same however. Less of a smooth transition under the chainstay and above the brake caliper mounting hole.


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## Roger H

*I like it better than the SC except .......*

for the front end. I suppose the fork could have something to do with it. It has slightly thinner walls on the steerer than the SC. It's a smoother ride, and a good fit, but I'm more reluctant to take a hand off the bars at speed. Maybe I'll get used to it.


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## twelvepercent

Yes.....the Lex is very smooth with the one piece (monocoque) mold....The Magister has that joint at the rear of the B.B. and the top of the seatstay and does look like the carb-level plus and Luxter. My older ('03) carb-level (not plus: the alu & CNC chain stay) had a much different looking CF composite in the "PSA" seatstay than the Lex, I have not seen the '04 plus yet....it was shipped to my friends house in Nev., I will see it next week.
I was hoping the weave/composite in the rear triangle is the same as the Lex......I know that Fondriest grades their CF as "high modulus"( magister), "ultra H.M." (Lex), and "super H.M." (TF-1 & top carb fork).....the higher the grade; the more threads and less resin.
The carb-level was great, but I sold it to my friend to get the Lex, and later upgrade to the '04 plus as the "backup" and air travel bike; my guess is that it will be somewhere between the carb-level and the Lex......I was thinking of a Merckx, but the plus '04 popped up alot cheaper ( with the top carb fork, H.S. and carbon 32.4 post) and I could not resist....


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## twelvepercent

Interesting that the fork has thinner walls.
According to Merckx, their forks are made in conjunction with Easton; maybe their newest fork(on the MXM) is noticeably less stiff than previous versions with that thinner wall.
You could try the SC fork if everything is not too different in terms of rake and length, and then go from there....people love to buy high end forks...(.eBay:this thing came off a$3900 MXM!!!!!)


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## divve

Sorry for the confusion. I was referring to the actual shape of the seat and chainstays. Not where they are joined to the frame.


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## twelvepercent

As usual, divve, you are entirely correct....
I just looked at the Fondriest USA site which gives quite a few angles and one high resolution shot of the '04 plus...looking at the lex in the livingroom , both the chain & seat stay are straighter with less "s"; they are "smoother " lines (less bend), and the chain stays in particular have quite a different shape; also, the dropouts are slightly different (on the plus) with two holes on ea. d-out and a removeable der. hanger; they do call the chain stays on the plus "ultra H.M.", which should be an upgrade from the CF on the original Carb-Level.
....good observation


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## HXTi

Hey Roger H. ,

I've heard conflicting reviews on that frame too. Divve might know more info but I thought I remember someone at the weight weenies site mention that the Tour german mag tested the stiffness and found it was very flexy. However others who have actually ridden the frame say its nice and stiff. 

However don't give up on it yet. The torsional flexion could most definitely be coming from the fork or carbon steerer. What is your bar/stem setup and how many spacers do you have. My caad6 was very flexy up front when I first got it because I didn't know any better and had 2.5cm of spacers with a flexy canondale stem. I switched to a thomson road stem and got rid of all the spacers (over time of course) and now the front is really solid....almost too much on rough roads but I'm a sprinter and I like it. 

New bikes need some break in time for your body to get adjusted. You'll always be comparing it to the previous bike you rode the most. Also here's a great article explaining trail and its ramification by one of the leading custom Ti frame builders...Tom Kellogg..You'll learn why your bike handles the way it does.

http://spectrum-cycles.com/612.htm

Let us know about your front end set up.


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## divve

twelvepercent, am I reading correctly that your Lex doesn't have a removable hanger?

HXTi, Tour did indeed test the MXM and found that the torsional stiffness of the head tube was very low. I tried to look for the actual figures, but I can't find the test anymore. Having stated that, I think frame performance is highly subjective. Intended use and preferences amongst various cyclist can differ greatly.


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## divve

That Spectrum page has high and low trail reversed. More trail will slower steering and less trail will make it quicker.


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## twelvepercent

My Lex DOES NOT have a removeable hanger.......what about yours?; as I remember yours is the blue graphic (mine has the yellow detail)...yours should be an '04, correct?
.....I just looked @ the USA website and the '04 lex in the pic is the ONLY one in the entire line w/o removeable der. hanger.....the ITA site shows the '04/'05 lex WITH remov. hanger.....If yours has a remov. hanger, you did very well...this was one of my concerns when I purchased the frame. Here in the USA I get a 4 yr. warranty and a "crash-replacement"@ cost...which I think is 1/2 retail. The Fondriest USA service is outstanding; so if I was to break the hanger, my guess is that Will would take care of me in some way that would make me happy.


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## dawgcatching

My Lex is a late 2004 (purchased in August) and it has removable hanger-2 small allen bolts (2.5mm) on the inside of the dropout that, I am assuming, are holding the hanger on.


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## twelvepercent

Mine has these little allen bolts on the inside of the dropout, but only one on each side up where the d-out connects to the seat stay...this joint looks permanent, and even if it was not, the chain stay has no such connection...check it out.


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## divve

Mine has a removable hanger as well. I bought it last year around March and it was delivered in April. I had to wait 3-4 weeks I believe, because it had to be specifically manufactured for me with the custom graphic. I remember whining about the non-removable hanger when I ordered it. Perhaps they threw it in there to make me happy


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## Roger H

*Less spacers helped but*

another problem has popped up. I noticed a small void at the end of the steering tube when I received the bike originally, but didn't give it much thought. Hoped that when I cut it down the void would be gone. It wasn't. When I trimmed a little more off today to reduce the flex, it seems a bit larger. And, it's on the back side where the stem clamps. I think it was probably some trapped air or something during the manufacturing process. Anyhow, now I've contacted the person who sold it to me, who is the original owner, and hopefully he can get Gita to warranty the fork. But till then, I think I won't ride the bike which could make it worse or perhaps fail. I was wondering if maybe the defect could have contributed to the forks flexiness. Anyhow, check it out.


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## twelvepercent

nice work...the '05's on the ITA site clearly show the removeable hanger, the '04's on the USA site show no removeable hanger...oh well, I guess I will have to upgrade to the TF-1 if anything should happen....


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## elviento

Definitely should replace it. That side of the steerer apparently has less material. May not be a real issue, but why take the risk? 



Roger H said:


> another problem has popped up. I noticed a small void at the end of the steering tube when I received the bike originally, but didn't give it much thought. Hoped that when I cut it down the void would be gone. It wasn't. When I trimmed a little more off today to reduce the flex, it seems a bit larger. And, it's on the back side where the stem clamps. I think it was probably some trapped air or something during the manufacturing process. Anyhow, now I've contacted the person who sold it to me, who is the original owner, and hopefully he can get Gita to warranty the fork. But till then, I think I won't ride the bike which could make it worse or perhaps fail. I was wondering if maybe the defect could have contributed to the forks flexiness. Anyhow, check it out.


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## twelvepercent

I have seen certain CF using the term "void free" composite...It is possible that the manufacturing process by Easton allows this to happen under certain circumstances....I would think that this situation would fall under the category of design and/or manufacturing flaw. You could call Easton directly and ask them about the relationship between Easton and Merckx in the design, process and manufacture of these forks. If that void is present all the way down the steerer, I can imagine it would be easily felt considering the stiffness of the complete front end system.
If you (or the seller) do speak with Merckx or Easton, using terms like "safety" and "catastrophic
failure" can be very helpful in immediate replacement..(i.e. liability issues)
best of luck to you


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## Maverick

*sorry to hear bout ur MXM Roger H..*

wonder why you're encountering so many problems on your frame.  
anyway, pls check out with Merckx or Easton regarding the void on the frame.
their response are pretty good as far as i know.

anyway..here's the pic of my previous GX2 and current Viner EOM16.5 steel


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## Roger H

*Update and photo*

Well, I'm slowly adjusting to the MXM. Took out some spacers and it really helped the front end. Had to send the fork back for replacement but no news yet. Bought an Easton EC90 SL on sale to use in the meantime, and besides matching very well, it also makes the bike feel more stable, or maybe it's just me. Rode a century yesterday and it performed very well. Sold my Team SC, so looks like I'm committed. Here's a photo of how it looks, so far. Thanks for everyone's comments.


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## oneslowmofo

*That a beaut!*

I just ordered a C50 but i want one of those too...


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## Maverick

*hey roger h..*

nice bike!!
anyway hope Merckx or Easton replace the fork soon enough.  

btw..a piece of advice from my experience on Merckx frames.

-be extra cautious of the cable bosses as they corrode easily.
from the day i started riding the frame, until the day i sold it, i've never failed to clean up the cable bosses after each ride, only to find it to be corroded eventually.  
that's my only complaint on the frame.

cheers


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## Roger H

*Thanks for the tip, Maverick.*

A new fork is coming soon. The original owner got a warranty replacement for me.


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