# Gearing for flat Florida



## gaspi101 (May 12, 2011)

Hey everyone. I'm riding with SRAM apex with the 34-50, 11-32 gearing which was greatly touted by my LBS and received great reviews etc. I've had a few people from my group rides tell me I need to change the cassette to get better performance given that we're in Miami which has zero hills or climbs. 

There is a greater gap on this than my previous entry level Shimano sora, which I believe was a 12-28. 

Two questions: should I be switching to something like an 11-28 or 11-27, and if so, would I see any performance benefits? Maybe the gear I'm comfortable at when doing 21mph or so is too high or too low, etc., and would get more performance from a more narrow gear selection?

And second question: what cassette do you suggest I swap in? Is the rear derailleur and hub compatible with all other SRAM cassettes? Thanks everyone!


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## Allez Rouge (Jan 1, 1970)

That Apex setup gets good press because it provides triple-like range in a 2x10 package. Unless you're really slow and out of shape (which it sounds like you're not), I can't imagine you'd need gearing that low anywhere in Florida.

An 11t cog on the high end makes sense with your compact crank, but I wouldn't think you'd need more than a 23 on the granny end.

The best thing about a narrower overall gear range is that the steps between the individual cogs don't have to be as large, allowing you to more closely select the gear that suits your desired speed, the wind, etc. Around here the terrain is a mix of flats and rolling hills; some of the hills are steep, but they're generally short: a 1/4 mile or so for most, hardly any as much as a mile long. I run a 14-23 straight block most of the time; i.e., only one tooth difference between adjacent cogs. It's nice to be able to shift to a cog that is not too big, not too small, but just right.


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## JCavilia (Sep 12, 2005)

*Florida gearing*









That's what I'd do ;-)

Seriously, though, if I were you, I'd get the tightest cassette available. I don't know if they make an 11-21, but with that 34 little ring you'd have plenty low enough gears for the headwinds, and the tightest possible ratios in the middle. You won't necessarily see any "performance benefits," but you'll be able to fine-tune cadence, which is nice.


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## cdhbrad (Feb 18, 2003)

I'm on the West Coast of FL and we don't have hills either. Get an 11x23 or 12x23, that is what I use when I ride on the bike I have set up with a compact crank. I only use a 12x27 when I do the Horrible Hundred in Clermont or go out of state to ride in the mountains. Save the 11x32 for those types of rides. All my other road bikes have a standard 53/39 setup with 11x23. 

If your rear Der. has a long cage, you might want to consider picking up a short cage rear der. to swap out to use with the tighter cassette. May need to shorten the chain too since the rear will be going over 9 less teeth on the big cog if you go to a 23, but try it first for shifting before you change out either the rear Der. or the chain.


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## gaspi101 (May 12, 2011)

Thanks. I'm a beginning rider but can keep up with my faster mates doing 22-23mph for about the first 1 and 1/2 hours, and then I have to pull off to 19-20 to catch a breath. 

One thing I can't do, however, is climb. We have a couple of bridges here, and they suck the life out of my lungs. So I avoid them. LOL

Honestly, though, I thought SRAM parts were all interchangeable. Can anyone tell me whether my rear derrailleur will take another SRAM 10 speed cassette without modification to the chain, etc.? Thanks.


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## Ventruck (Mar 9, 2009)

When you change the gearing significantly, the chain will have to be shortened no matter what for any system. Your derailleur will be able to handle anything, though. Because the cage in my Shimano 105 has been teh suck, I swapped in my Deore LX from my hybrid, and it's shifting through my 11-25 cassette perfectly.


If it's _thaaaaat flat_, I'd personally go (over-the-top) with an 11-23 cassette to reap the benefits of exact gearing through the entire range; be fancy and get a 54t Aero chainring (and a 42 inner), and clip-on aero bars for longer rides. The bars wouldn't be so much for the aero, but the extra hand/arm position. But seriously, I do suggest the 11-23 and bars.

Ever since I've spent more time on hills, I don't know what to do with my hands on flats.


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## V3T (May 19, 2011)

Ventruck said:


> When you change the gearing significantly, the chain will have to be shortened no matter what for any system. Your derailleur will be able to handle anything, though. Because the cage in my Shimano 105 has been teh suck, I swapped in my Deore LX from my hybrid, and it's shifting through my 11-25 cassette perfectly.
> 
> 
> If it's _thaaaaat flat_, I'd personally go (over-the-top) with an 11-23 cassette to reap the benefits of exact gearing through the entire range; be fancy and get a 54t Aero chainring (and a 42 inner), and clip-on aero bars for longer rides. The bars wouldn't be so much for the aero, but the extra hand/arm position. But seriously, I do suggest the 11-23 and bars.
> ...



54/11 presents quite a gear ratio. I use a 12-25 with my standard crank, and in fast group rides my gearing is usually 53/14 or 13 at 26+mph on the flats. I don't see many people being able to turn a 54/11 regularly, or even a 53/11 for that matter, unless they are going downhill.


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## Drew Eckhardt (Nov 11, 2009)

gaspi101 said:


> Hey everyone. I'm riding with SRAM apex with the 34-50, 11-32 gearing which was greatly touted by my LBS and received great reviews etc. I've had a few people from my group rides tell me I need to change the cassette to get better performance given that we're in Miami which has zero hills or climbs.
> 
> There is a greater gap on this than my previous entry level Shimano sora, which I believe was a 12-28.
> 
> Two questions: should I be switching to something like an 11-28 or 11-27,


No.



> and if so, would I see any performance benefits?


You might be able to ride harder longer on more days in a week with the tighter gears helping keep your cadence up.



> And second question: what cassette do you suggest I swap in? Is the rear derailleur and hub compatible with all other SRAM cassettes? Thanks everyone!



I'd do 12-13-14-15-16-17-18-19-21-23. SRAM doesn't make 18 cogs so it will need to be Shimano which is OK because they use the same spline pattern.

50x13 is a 30 MPH cruising gear and 39 MPH sprinting. You don't need any more. I never wanted more living in the Colorado Rockies with real mountain descents.

34x23 will get a rider 30 pounds over weight with OK fitness up mountains. It'll be fine for Florida and you don't need more.

The 12 cog will move the 13 in board a bit and give you a little more top-end on the small ring where you'd actually use 34x13 versus a 13 starting cog where you'd avoid the combination. That'll be nice when wind/fatigue/rest days limit speed and the extra gear down there means less double shifting.

The one tooth jumps up to the 19 cog feel great when you're really working hard.


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## Drew Eckhardt (Nov 11, 2009)

Ventruck said:


> If it's _thaaaaat flat_, I'd personally go (over-the-top) with an 11-23 cassette to reap the benefits of exact gearing through the entire range;


Only with Campagnolo 11 speed. The original poster has only 10 cogs so the 18 would be missing.


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## kbwh (May 28, 2010)

That 17-19 jump is manageable with a 50. It's good training to spin 100-105 rpm.

In other words: You should be ok with a 11-23.


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## Drew Eckhardt (Nov 11, 2009)

kbwh said:


> That 17-19 jump is manageable with a 50. It's good training to spin 100-105 rpm.
> 
> In other words: You should be ok with a 11-23.


Why settle for OK? The 18 cog is more pleasant at some speed whether you spin like a humming bird or mash like an elephant. The 11 cog delays shifting to your big ring but is otherwise useless. I'd much rather have an 18 than an 11 or 12.


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## kbwh (May 28, 2010)

Drew Eckhardt said:


> Why settle for OK? The 18 cog is more pleasant at some speed whether you spin like a humming bird or mash like an elephant. The 11 cog delays shifting to your big ring but is otherwise useless. I'd much rather have an 18 than an 11 or 12.


I agree that the 18 is nice. I also think that the 23 is nicer to have than the 11 on pancake flat roads.
If 12-23 SRAMano 10 speed cassettes can be bought then get one.

(The best option is of course to go Campagnolo 11 speed.)


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## RC28 (May 9, 2002)

When I lived in Broward County, all except one of my cassettes were 12-21. I don't think I ever used the 21.


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## JCavilia (Sep 12, 2005)

RC28 said:


> When I lived in Broward County, all except one of my cassettes were 12-21. I don't think I ever used the 21.


The voice of experience. And I'll bet your small ring was a 39, right?

I was a little serious with my first response. I love hills, and get bored to death on long flat rides. If I had to live someplace as flat as Florida, I'd probably ride fixed-gear all the time, just to keep it interesting.


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## gaspi101 (May 12, 2011)

Ventruck said:


> When you change the gearing significantly, the chain will have to be shortened no matter what for any system. Your derailleur will be able to handle anything, though. Because the cage in my Shimano 105 has been teh suck, I swapped in my Deore LX from my hybrid, and it's shifting through my 11-25 cassette perfectly.
> 
> 
> If it's _thaaaaat flat_, I'd personally go (over-the-top) with an 11-23 cassette to reap the benefits of exact gearing through the entire range; be fancy and get a 54t Aero chainring (and a 42 inner), and clip-on aero bars for longer rides. The bars wouldn't be so much for the aero, but the extra hand/arm position. But seriously, I do suggest the 11-23 and bars.
> ...


Really? Why would the chain need to be shortened if the tension is just fine on the 11 cog and im going to switch to something like an 11-23? I have a feeling I just asked a very stupid question.

And by the way, I already got bars. It's ridiculous how much they help with the screaming wind, when I'm sprinting, when i have to catch up to a group, etc. Great advice by all, by the way. Thanks.


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## gaspi101 (May 12, 2011)

The aerobars...


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## DIRT BOY (Aug 22, 2002)

Drew Eckhardt said:


> No.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


OP, Drew nailed this and I agree. But 11-21 is fine. I live in Miami and use a 51/39 with a 11-21 or 11-23 in back.

Also, if you are riding KB, then do repast on the bridge and get stronger. Stop avoiding it.


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## RC28 (May 9, 2002)

JCavilia said:


> The voice of experience. And I'll bet your small ring was a 39, right?
> 
> I was a little serious with my first response. I love hills, and get bored to death on long flat rides. If I had to live someplace as flat as Florida, I'd probably ride fixed-gear all the time, just to keep it interesting.


Indeed. 53-39 up front.

I did all my fixed gear riding at the track up in Cooper City though.


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## cdhbrad (Feb 18, 2003)

12-21s, in 10sp, are hard to come by these days, I think DA 7900 is the only alternative. A bit pricey for a bike with SRAM Apex just to get that 21. I run DA on all my Shimano bikes and use SRAM 1070 cassettes. 11 or 12-23 is more reasonably priced and availalbe from either Shimano or SRAM.


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## RC28 (May 9, 2002)

cdhbrad said:


> 12-21s, in 10sp, are hard to come by these days, I think DA 7900 is the only alternative. A bit pricey for a bike with SRAM Apex just to get that 21. I run DA on all my Shimano bikes and use SRAM 1070 cassettes. 11 or 12-23 is more reasonably priced and availalbe from either Shimano or SRAM.


Yeah, sorry I was trying to make a pint that the OP does not need to get a 25 or a 28 on the low end as (for me) it seemed that a 21 would be more than enough.

Most of my cogsets now are 12-25 , with one 11-25, one 12-27 and one 12-23. And that last one is for the "flat"races around where I live now...there's always a hill somewhere!


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## gaspi101 (May 12, 2011)

Alright, so I spoke with a SRAM customer tech chick who said that if I wanted to go to an 11-23through28 I needed to get the SRAM short-cage rear derailleur and loose a few links on the chain. 

First, can you guys confirm this? 
Second, can I use the same chain and somehow knock links off with a special tool, or do I buy a new chain? Third, if I'm changing the derailleur, cassette, (maybe chain), should I opt to just upgrade the whole grouppo? I've had the bike for 4 months only, so I would hate to spend another $800 on a groupset.


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## Cat 6 RCR (Jun 2, 2008)

1st - They're right.
2nd - Yep, you just need a chain break and a quick link.
3rd- No, you'd just be wasting money.


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## cdhbrad (Feb 18, 2003)

You should be OK just picking up a SRAM Force Rear Der. and a cassette with the gearing that you want....either SRAM or Shimano will work. IF you want to keep the option of using the current cassette with the 32 top end, I think I would buy a new chain and size it properly to the new cassette. That way, you will have the larger cassette, long cage der. and a properly sized chain to use if you want to go climb mountains somewhere. Otherwise, you can use your current chain and size it to the length you need with a chain tool. 

You will also need tools to remove current cassette and reinstall the new one on the rear wheel. None of what you want to do is all that hard, but it does take 3 specific tools: a chain breaking tool, cassette lockring tool, and a chain whip (Park and Pedros make good ones and all of which you will ultimately use if you keep riding bikes very long) and the ability to remove and install a cassette and to install and adjust a new rear der. (instructions should be in the box with the new rear der. and easy to follow). If you aren't comfortable making all these changes, you may want to check with the LBS where you bought the bike, tell them what you would like to do, and have the give you a price. 

If in doubt, check the Park Tools site for easy to follow instructions on all of the above.


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## Fireform (Dec 15, 2005)

I'm in Miami. I use DA 53-39 front and 11-21 rear, and just about everyone I know rides something close. Crossing the "Biscayne Cordillera" (bridge) into a howling headwind I might drop into the lowest gear, but that's about it. 

The ability to fine tune your cadence to wind and pace conditions will be way more important than having a granny gear.


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## gaspi101 (May 12, 2011)

Fireform said:


> I'm in Miami. I use DA 53-39 front and 11-21 rear, and just about everyone I know rides something close. Crossing the "Biscayne Cordillera" (bridge) into a howling headwind I might drop into the lowest gear, but that's about it.
> 
> The ability to fine tune your cadence to wind and pace conditions will be way more important than having a granny gear.


Ok, so you've convinced me to switch my non-necessary granny gears. Lot of miami people here! That Rickebacker bridge is a demon but I can't ever find the right gear in the flats. 

I'm pretty handy, so I'll get the tools and switch. Question: if I buy the 1070 cassette with 11-23 cogs, the short-cage derraileur (or Force derr.), how many links do I need to take off my chain? Or better stated, how many links should be on the chain for that setup? By the way, I'd like to keep the 34/50 crank--any reason not to?

And lastly, do I need a derailleur alignment tool? Or is just installing and lining up all that's needed?


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## cdhbrad (Feb 18, 2003)

The length of the chain is dependent on your drive train.....instructions for sizing a chain may be in SRAM instruction for the rear Der., I know they are for a Shimano. If not, I expect you can find the instructions on the Park Tools site. No one posting here can tell you exactly how long the chain will need to be.....just don't make it too short when you start removing links from the new chain or from your current chain as its hard to put the pins back in and have them function smoothly in the newer chains. 

A simple screwdriver will do just fine as a "derailleur alignment tool" or use hex wrenches if the SRAM rear der. you choose allows that. I mentioned a Force der. above., but Rival would work too and be a little cheaper than Force.


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## DIRT BOY (Aug 22, 2002)

Fireform said:


> I'm in Miami. I use DA 53-39 front and 11-21 rear, and just about everyone I know rides something close. Crossing the "Biscayne Cordillera" (bridge) into a howling headwind I might drop into the lowest gear, but that's about it.
> 
> The ability to fine tune your cadence to wind and pace conditions will be way more important than having a granny gear.


Also just about everyone I see in that type gearing are always way in back on the rear or using the granny.

Unless your in top shape and are at the front in the large weekend groups, that gearing is too much. I kinda giggle a lot when I see this. My 51/11 or 12 gearing will let keep spin and stay with any group or any speed if I can ride the pace. Most non-semi/pro riders don't need a 53T from even in flat Florida. Now I ride solo a lot so a 53T from is a waste and heavier ;-)


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## gaspi101 (May 12, 2011)

OK--So anything else I need to get in order to get the job done? Is it certain that the SRAM Force derailleur will be fine for this application (11-23 cassette) -- Also, still a little unclear as to how many links I have to remove, but I imagine the cassette / derailleur's instructions will say the chain requirements.


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## DIRT BOY (Aug 22, 2002)

gaspi101 said:


> Ok, so you've convinced me to switch my non-necessary granny gears. Lot of miami people here! That Rickebacker bridge is a demon but I can't ever find the right gear in the flats.
> 
> I'm pretty handy, so I'll get the tools and switch. Question: if I buy the 1070 cassette with 11-23 cogs, the short-cage derraileur (or Force derr.), how many links do I need to take off my chain? Or better stated, how many links should be on the chain for that setup? By the way, I'd like to keep the 34/50 crank--any reason not to?
> 
> And lastly, do I need a derailleur alignment tool? Or is just installing and lining up all that's needed?


gaspi101, 

1. The bridge is nor that hard. Get it out of your mind!! Think positive and attack it with the right gear and state of mind. I am no pro and I can do it FG with a 48x16 gearing pretty quick. 

2. Now save a few bucks and get a Rival RD. find on on eBay. Then get a SRAM or Shimano 12-25 or 12-23 for the rear. Now you have gearing that you can tackle anything in Florida. Hills with a low 34/23 and fast flat with a 50/12. Compacts are the best thing to happens to 85% or more of weekend warriors and casual racers!!

You could get both the RD and cassette and installed for less than $200. Buy the parts online and have the LBS install. Or do you know someone with tools? Buy them some beer or coffee to install it. I bought my own tools and learned very fast! Now I handle customers and friends myself. It's not that hard!


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## DIRT BOY (Aug 22, 2002)

gaspi101 said:


> OK--So anything else I need to get in order to get the job done? Is it certain that the SRAM Force derailleur will be fine for this application (11-23 cassette) -- Also, still a little unclear as to how many links I have to remove, but I imagine the cassette / derailleur's instructions will say the chain requirements.


Yet it would. It's easy to find online. But font spend so much on the RD. Get a Rival or eBay. Cheaper and will shift just as well. It's only weight and finish you are paying for on Force.


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## DIRT BOY (Aug 22, 2002)

gaspi101 said:


> OK--So anything else I need to get in order to get the job done? Is it certain that the SRAM Force derailleur will be fine for this application (11-23 cassette) -- Also, still a little unclear as to how many links I have to remove, but I imagine the cassette / derailleur's instructions will say the chain requirements.


Cassette is fine
Rival: http://shop.mobileweb.ebay.com/searchresults?cmd=SKW&kw=sram+rival+rear+derailleur


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## DIRT BOY (Aug 22, 2002)

gaspi101 said:


> OK--So anything else I need to get in order to get the job done? Is it certain that the SRAM Force derailleur will be fine for this application (11-23 cassette) -- Also, still a little unclear as to how many links I have to remove, but I imagine the cassette / derailleur's instructions will say the chain requirements.


Found a Ultegra 12-23 for the same price:
http://item.mobileweb.ebay.com/viewitem?itemId=300577528074&index=1&nav=SEARCH&nid=27291000324


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## fabsroman (Jul 14, 2006)

I think this has already been covered, but I will reinforce it. I keep a bike at my in-laws in Tampa for when I am down there. It has a 53/39 crankset and an 11-23 cassette. I even ride the same setup here in Maryland where I usually do 1,500 feet of climbing on my "flatest" route. The other day, I did 40 miles with 3,000 feet of climbing. You could use an 11-21 cassette too, which is what I use on my TT bike here. The big difference is that I have never had to come out of the big ring in Tampa except for pulling out of the garage and cooling down. That isn't the case here.

The closer gearing on the cassette will allow you to upshift ad downshift in small increments and accomodate flat riding a lot better than having a bunch of cogs that you will never use.


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## gaspi101 (May 12, 2011)

DIRT BOY said:


> Yet it would. It's easy to find online. But font spend so much on the RD. Get a Rival or eBay. Cheaper and will shift just as well. It's only weight and finish you are paying for on Force.


If that's the case, perhaps I should just get the Apex short-cage derailleur, given that I have Apex everywhere else as well. No? 

http://www.nashbar.com/bikes/Product_10053_10052_515854_-1___


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## Fireform (Dec 15, 2005)

FWIW, my riding buddy bought a new bike with a 50t compact crank and 12t small rear cog and found himself running out of gears on big sprints and downwind pacelines. YMMV, but more than a 23t rear is going to be a waste if you get yourself reasonably fit.


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## gaspi101 (May 12, 2011)

DIRT BOY said:


> Cassette is fine
> Rival: http://shop.mobileweb.ebay.com/searchresults?cmd=SKW&kw=sram+rival+rear+derailleur


Is the Rival in any way better than the Apex or Force derailleur?


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## gaspi101 (May 12, 2011)

Fireform said:


> FWIW, my riding buddy bought a new bike with a 50t compact crank and 12t small rear cog and found himself running out of gears on big sprints and downwind pacelines. YMMV, but more than a 23t rear is going to be a waste if you get yourself reasonably fit.


You know, I can keep up with the rest of my group at 23-24mph for relatively extended periods, and have done double-centuries in one day in Miami summer heat, but I can't seem to be able to climb worth a damn. My heartrate races and I die. Why the hell is that?! My younger brother, who is in great shape, kills me on bridge-climbs, but when going down to the Keys, I did 80 miles more than him, and I stopped only because I reached my destination. 

Maybe that's another reason to get rid of the 11-32--I need to train and hit those bridges with a decent gear to get in better shape.


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## gaspi101 (May 12, 2011)

DIRT BOY said:


> Found a Ultegra 12-23 for the same price:
> http://item.mobileweb.ebay.com/viewitem?itemId=300577528074&index=1&nav=SEARCH&nid=27291000324


Read somewhere that shimano RDs don't play nice with Sram shifters.


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## DIRT BOY (Aug 22, 2002)

gaspi101 said:


> If that's the case, perhaps I should just get the Apex short-cage derailleur, given that I have Apex everywhere else as well. No?
> 
> http://www.nashbar.com/bikes/Product_10053_10052_515854_-1___


Sure. or a slight upgrade with Rival.


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## DIRT BOY (Aug 22, 2002)

gaspi101 said:


> Read somewhere that shimano RDs don't play nice with Sram shifters.


 Cassettes don't matter. That's what i posted.


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## DIRT BOY (Aug 22, 2002)

fabsroman said:


> I think this has already been covered, but I will reinforce it. I keep a bike at my in-laws in Tampa for when I am down there. It has a 53/39 crankset and an 11-23 cassette. I even ride the same setup here in Maryland where I usually do 1,500 feet of climbing on my "flatest" route. The other day, I did 40 miles with 3,000 feet of climbing. You could use an 11-21 cassette too, which is what I use on my TT bike here. The big difference is that I have never had to come out of the big ring in Tampa except for pulling out of the garage and cooling down. That isn't the case here.
> 
> The closer gearing on the cassette will allow you to upshift ad downshift in small increments and accomodate flat riding a lot better than having a bunch of cogs that you will never use.


Maybe that's fine for you. But i see many people cross their gears with that combo.


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## DIRT BOY (Aug 22, 2002)

Fireform said:


> FWIW, my riding buddy bought a new bike with a 50t compact crank and 12t small rear cog and found himself running out of gears on big sprints and downwind pacelines. YMMV, but more than a 23t rear is going to be a waste if you get yourself reasonably fit.


Then you buddy is really strong and bought the wrong bike/drivetrain.

Gear chart using MPH @ 100 RPM

For 700 X 23 / 23-622 tire with 172.5 mm cranks

With Custom Sprocket(s) Cassette

50/12 = 32.6mph

That's pretty fast @ only 100RPM. Jump to 120rpm and he can do just about 4o MPH.

They 51/11 will get me 36.2MPH on a flat at 100RPMs. Do I need a bigger gear for FL? Hell no. Crank to 120RPMs which I can do easily seated will get me over 43 MPH.


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## Fireform (Dec 15, 2005)

gaspi101 said:


> You know, I can keep up with the rest of my group at 23-24mph for relatively extended periods, and have done double-centuries in one day in Miami summer heat, but I can't seem to be able to climb worth a damn. My heartrate races and I die. Why the hell is that?! My younger brother, who is in great shape, kills me on bridge-climbs, but when going down to the Keys, I did 80 miles more than him, and I stopped only because I reached my destination.
> 
> Maybe that's another reason to get rid of the 11-32--I need to train and hit those bridges with a decent gear to get in better shape.


I'm not a good climber either. In addition to less body weight, there's just something biomechanically different about people who can climb really well. But, practice helps, even for clydesdales.


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## gaspi101 (May 12, 2011)

Fireform said:


> I'm not a good climber either. In addition to less body weight, there's just something biomechanically different about people who can climb really well. But, practice helps, even for clydesdales.


I'd like to think I'm no clysdale, but you never know--knocking on 180 and 5'11''. Certainly not light. Have asthma, though, which I hear is common in cycling. If I can keep my heartrate down, though, my legs can go on for ever, which is encouraging.


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## fabsroman (Jul 14, 2006)

Fireform said:


> I'm not a good climber either. In addition to less body weight, there's just something biomechanically different about people who can climb really well. But, practice helps, even for clydesdales.


LOL - What they are doing in Florida isn't really climbing. The only time I am out of the saddle during my ride in Tampa is when I have to go over one of these bridge overpasses that have an incline in them. I usually take those climbs in a 53x19. 53x17 if I have a tailwind or a 53x21 if I have a terrible headwind. These "climbs" are just all power. Get out of the saddle and hammer over them in no time at all. Gettig over these quick climbs is just a matter of ramping up the power. Essentially, doing a quick interval and recovering on the short descent. This isn't anyhing like a 500 foot climb where treating it like an interval only gets you into trouble.

To the OP, did anybody cover the chain length issue? If not, the easiest way to do it is to put the chain in the small ring and smallest cog, lining the two open ends of the chain up, pulling it just enough such that there is some tenson from the rear derailleur, and then noting how many links need to come off. Make sure that you don't end up with two identical ends (e.g., outer links or inner links) because then you will be up a creek and gave to do more work. Essentially, you want the chain as long as possible with some tension in it from the rear drailleur when the chain is in the small ring and smallest cog.


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## Fireform (Dec 15, 2005)

DIRT BOY said:


> Then you buddy is really strong and bought the wrong bike/drivetrain.
> 
> Gear chart using MPH @ 100 RPM
> 
> ...


It is a combination of factors. For one, he prefers a lower cadence than I do. I doubt he ever turns over 100 rpm. For another, the groups we ride in sometimes go over 33mph--not on a 30 second sprint but long surges where a 120 cadence is hard to sustain (for me, anyway). A couple of weekends ago we had a stretch of 6 miles at 34-35 all the way, and I've paced at 38 with them on the flat. For him that's not enough gearing. I'm not saying I ride in the top gear all the time--it's quite rare--but to be flying in a paceline like that and have to drop because you don't have the cadence or gearing sucks. 

If I'm going to be carrying an extra cog, I'd much rather have an extra 11 that I rarely use than an extra 25 that I never use.


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## DIRT BOY (Aug 22, 2002)

fabsroman said:


> LOL - What they are doing in Florida isn't really climbing. The only time I am out of the saddle during my ride in Tampa is when I have to go over one of these bridge overpasses that have an incline in them. I usually take those climbs in a 53x19. 53x17 if I have a tailwind or a 53x21 if I have a terrible headwind. These "climbs" are just all power. Get out of the saddle and hammer over them in no time at all. Gettig over these quick climbs is just a matter of ramping up the power. Essentially, doing a quick interval and recovering on the short descent. This isn't anyhing like a 500 foot climb where treating it like an interval only gets you into trouble.
> 
> To the OP, did anybody cover the chain length issue? If not, the easiest way to do it is to put the chain in the small ring and smallest cog, lining the two open ends of the chain up, pulling it just enough such that there is some tenson from the rear derailleur, and then noting how many links need to come off. Make sure that you don't end up with two identical ends (e.g., outer links or inner links) because then you will be up a creek and gave to do more work. Essentially, you want the chain as long as possible with some tension in it from the rear drailleur when the chain is in the small ring and smallest cog.


Yep, that's all there is too climbing here. Shorts burst of power and recover. But to a lot of riders here who ride nothing but pancakes, they can be challenging.


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## DIRT BOY (Aug 22, 2002)

Fireform said:


> It is a combination of factors. For one, he prefers a lower cadence than I do. I doubt he ever turns over 100 rpm. For another, the groups we ride in sometimes go over 33mph--not on a 30 second sprint but long surges where a 120 cadence is hard to sustain (for me, anyway). A couple of weekends ago we had a stretch of 6 miles at 34-35 all the way, and I've paced at 38 with them on the flat. For him that's not enough gearing. I'm not saying I ride in the top gear all the time--it's quite rare--but to be flying in a paceline like that and have to drop because you don't have the cadence or gearing sucks.
> 
> If I'm going to be carrying an extra cog, I'd much rather have an extra 11 that I rarely use than an extra 25 that I never use.


Ok. That's why I use 11/21. I can do anything around here without issues. I thought of a 52T latley.


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## Fireform (Dec 15, 2005)

fabsroman said:


> LOL - What they are doing in Florida isn't really climbing. The only time I am out of the saddle during my ride in Tampa is when I have to go over one of these bridge overpasses that have an incline in them. I usually take those climbs in a 53x19. 53x17 if I have a tailwind or a 53x21 if I have a terrible headwind. These "climbs" are just all power. Get out of the saddle and hammer over them in no time at all. Gettig over these quick climbs is just a matter of ramping up the power. Essentially, doing a quick interval and recovering on the short descent. This isn't anyhing like a 500 foot climb where treating it like an interval only gets you into trouble.
> 
> To the OP, did anybody cover the chain length issue? If not, the easiest way to do it is to put the chain in the small ring and smallest cog, lining the two open ends of the chain up, pulling it just enough such that there is some tenson from the rear derailleur, and then noting how many links need to come off. Make sure that you don't end up with two identical ends (e.g., outer links or inner links) because then you will be up a creek and gave to do more work. Essentially, you want the chain as long as possible with some tension in it from the rear drailleur when the chain is in the small ring and smallest cog.


The trepidation with which many Miamians view the Rickenbacker bridge is funny. It's a pretty big bridge (built for big ships to pass under), but it's just about the same grade and length as the gravel driveway leading to the house I grew up in in Oregon. 

But still, it's good to have some pavement somewhere that's inclined. Friends of mine will do that bridge 6 or 8 times in a row for their workout, which is not so shabby.


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## gaspi101 (May 12, 2011)

fabsroman said:


> LOL - What they are doing in Florida isn't really climbing. The only time I am out of the saddle during my ride in Tampa is when I have to go over one of these bridge overpasses that have an incline in them. I usually take those climbs in a 53x19. 53x17 if I have a tailwind or a 53x21 if I have a terrible headwind. These "climbs" are just all power. Get out of the saddle and hammer over them in no time at all. Gettig over these quick climbs is just a matter of ramping up the power. Essentially, doing a quick interval and recovering on the short descent. This isn't anyhing like a 500 foot climb where treating it like an interval only gets you into trouble.
> 
> To the OP, did anybody cover the chain length issue? If not, the easiest way to do it is to put the chain in the small ring and smallest cog, lining the two open ends of the chain up, pulling it just enough such that there is some tenson from the rear derailleur, and then noting how many links need to come off. Make sure that you don't end up with two identical ends (e.g., outer links or inner links) because then you will be up a creek and gave to do more work. Essentially, you want the chain as long as possible with some tension in it from the rear drailleur when the chain is in the small ring and smallest cog.


That's exactly what I needed. I'm buying tonight and can't wait to find a good gear again. Thanks!


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## gaspi101 (May 12, 2011)

Fireform said:


> The trepidation with which many Miamians view the Rickenbacker bridge is funny. It's a pretty big bridge (built for big ships to pass under), but it's just about the same grade and length as the gravel driveway leading to the house I grew up in in Oregon.
> 
> But still, it's good to have some pavement somewhere that's inclined. Friends of mine will do that bridge 6 or 8 times in a row for their workout, which is not so shabby.


Ha! Yes, I've done the bridge 6-8 times in a day on several occcasions. Not to say I enjoyed any part of it. In fact, I get bored with doing the Key Biscayne circuit and really enjoy going 50 miles in any direction and then coming back a different route.

As a curiosity, what's the gradient on the Rickenbacker?


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## gaspi101 (May 12, 2011)

Do I need a torque wrench to install these things? Everything on the bike is carbon fiber so....
Also, going with the Force derailleur, if for nothing else, then because it looks sweet.


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## Fireform (Dec 15, 2005)

I would guess it is at most a 3% grade. It is officially the William Powell bridge, but nobody calls it that.


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## gaspi101 (May 12, 2011)

Fireform said:


> I would guess it is at most a 3% grade. It is officially the William Powell bridge, but nobody calls it that.


3%?! Wow. I'm such a pus$y.


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## DIRT BOY (Aug 22, 2002)

Fireform said:


> The trepidation with which many Miamians view the Rickenbacker bridge is funny. It's a pretty big bridge (built for big ships to pass under), but it's just about the same grade and length as the gravel driveway leading to the house I grew up in in Oregon.
> 
> But still, it's good to have some pavement somewhere that's inclined. Friends of mine will do that bridge 6 or 8 times in a row for their workout, which is not so shabby.


So true and funny. Yeah, I do repeats as well on it as well. Max was 12 one day.


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## cdhbrad (Feb 18, 2003)

You don't need a torque wrench to install a rear der.


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## gaspi101 (May 12, 2011)

cdhbrad said:


> You don't need a torque wrench to install a rear der.


But don't I need one for the cassette?


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## cdhbrad (Feb 18, 2003)

No, just get the lockring as tight as can with the lockring wrench you are buying. I just use a set of channellock pliers to hold the Park lockring tool I use and get it tight with that.....never had one come off or had loose cogs in the cassette. A lot of shops put the lockring tool in a vice and spin the wheel on it to tightn and the lockring gets so tight its difficult to remove.


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## gaspi101 (May 12, 2011)

cdhbrad said:


> No, just get the lockring as tight as can with the lockring wrench you are buying. I just use a set of channellock pliers to hold the Park lockring tool I use and get it tight with that.....never had one come off or had loose cogs in the cassette. A lot of shops put the lockring tool in a vice and spin the wheel on it to tightn and the lockring gets so tight its difficult to remove.


OK, great. I bought a bike torque wrench set anyway, will be useful for adjusting parts on the carbon frame, I imagine. Thanks!


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## V3T (May 19, 2011)

Fireform said:


> It is a combination of factors. For one, he prefers a lower cadence than I do. I doubt he ever turns over 100 rpm. For another, the groups we ride in sometimes go over 33mph--not on a 30 second sprint but long surges where a 120 cadence is hard to sustain (for me, anyway). A couple of weekends ago we had a stretch of 6 miles at 34-35 all the way, and I've paced at 38 with them on the flat. For him that's not enough gearing. I'm not saying I ride in the top gear all the time--it's quite rare--but to be flying in a paceline like that and have to drop because you don't have the cadence or gearing sucks.
> 
> If I'm going to be carrying an extra cog, I'd much rather have an extra 11 that I rarely use than an extra 25 that I never use.


I have ridden with a similar group (with a little slower of a pace: 30-32mph), and I have also been dropped because I run out of steam. Wouldn't training more often allow you to match the surges that occur in addition to proper gearing? I often attribute my lack of ability to training and calories/water consumed. I can ride at a 23mph on my own for long distances, but anything over 28mph seems to burn me up quick if there isn't a rest period between surges.


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## Fireform (Dec 15, 2005)

It sounds like we ride in the same circles. For me low 30s is no problem for the drivetrain--it's the motor that needs tuning!

I recently got back from 11 days off the bike (family vacation). Last weekend was pain theater.


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## gaspi101 (May 12, 2011)

So I got the goodies last week and immediately changed the cassette and derailleur. Kept the chain the same length--if anything, it seems mote taught--didn't remove any links, like many (including SRAM customer support) said would be needed. Runs great, and I love the gear selection. I must say, the gearing is not too bad for the KB bridge climb. I don't even use the lowest gear on the 11-23 cassette. 

Did about 120 miles this weekend and it was a breeze with this gearing. Thanks for the great advice, all!


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## jermsmith (Jul 30, 2011)

53 upfront works well for me!


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## JCavilia (Sep 12, 2005)

gaspi101 said:


> So I got the goodies last week and immediately changed the cassette and derailleur. Kept the chain the same length--if anything, it seems mote taught--didn't remove any links, like many (including SRAM customer support) said would be needed. Runs great, and I love the gear selection. I must say, the gearing is not too bad for the KB bridge climb. I don't even use the lowest gear on the 11-23 cassette.
> 
> Did about 120 miles this weekend and it was a breeze with this gearing. Thanks for the great advice, all!


Glad that's working out for you. I hope you drafted some UPS trucks ;-)


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## DIRT BOY (Aug 22, 2002)

gaspi101 said:


> 3%?! Wow. I'm such a pus$y.


The AVG grade going to KB is 3.8% coming back its 3.2 % AVG. Both peak at 5% grade.

Calculated with my Garmin 500 and a Theodolite last night.


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## DIRT BOY (Aug 22, 2002)

gaspi101 said:


> So I got the goodies last week and immediately changed the cassette and derailleur. Kept the chain the same length--if anything, it seems mote taught--didn't remove any links, like many (including SRAM customer support) said would be needed. Runs great, and I love the gear selection. I must say, the gearing is not too bad for the KB bridge climb. I don't even use the lowest gear on the 11-23 cassette.
> 
> Did about 120 miles this weekend and it was a breeze with this gearing. Thanks for the great advice, all!


Awesome, just keep doing hill repeats on the bridge to get better.


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## Fireform (Dec 15, 2005)

You are welcome! Always a pleasure to help. 

That bridge is steeper that I gave it credit for. The Card Sound bridge adds some spice to that route too, but isn't as long.


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## gaspi101 (May 12, 2011)

JCavilia said:


> Glad that's working out for you. I hope you drafted some UPS trucks ;-)


Oh, some cross-post hijinks...hahaha...


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## gaspi101 (May 12, 2011)

DIRT BOY said:


> The AVG grade going to KB is 3.8% coming back its 3.2 % AVG. Both peak at 5% grade.
> 
> Calculated with my Garmin 500 and a Theodolite last night.


Thanks for doing that. Definitely puts the TdF into perspective--30+ consecutive miles of 8-10% gradient---no thank you.


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