# Tired legs for months!



## kreuzberg (Feb 1, 2009)

Hello everybody

So I have been having a few issues with recovery for a few months now and I'm thinking it is due to overtraining. A confirmation of my theory, and maybe some advice, would be really appreciated.

It all started when I got really sick in March, I had to take five days totally off the bike because I was too sick to get on. I didn't come back slow though, choosing instead to start things off with a fast hard group ride. Because I was fresh from having trained two hours the previous week, the ride went really well, I assumed I was better and went back to training as usual. In April, I really ramped up the training, riding only around 15 hours each week, but including lots of intensity and lots of fast group rides and races. After a month of this I was pretty cooked, and although I've been experiencing fatigue day in day out since then, I mostly continued with the bad training habits, often dropping intervals, but doing at least one difficult group ride a week. 
Training this way has left me tired much of the time. It's gotten to the point where I can do about one very hard day per week, and for the rest of the week I feel the effects of it. I also have, on average, about one day per week where I feel very very strong, but I can only be at that level for one day before I get totally tired out again and am unable to duplicate the efforts that I was able to do on that day. I suspect that strong feeling is what I would be more like on a regular basis if my legs weren't always tired.

The feeling of fatigue I get is a big burning in my legs, every time I push hard on the pedals. It's the same feeling you get when you run up the stairs after riding for five hours. It feels like acid and it won't go away.

I've stopped with the group rides for now, but I have a big race series at the end on july that I am targeting and I really want to do well there, but if things continue the way they have been, I won't last more than three days.

Any advice on recovery, or what I should focus on leading up to the race? 

Sorry for the long post. Thanks very much in advance!


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## Kerry Irons (Feb 25, 2002)

*You already know the answer*



kreuzberg said:


> So I have been having a few issues with recovery for a few months now and I'm thinking it is due to overtraining.


You already know that it is overtraining, and yet you keep doing hard rides. Makes me wonder  

Whether you can get it back together by the end of the month is an open question, but you REALLY need to dial it down until you are fully recovered. Some would suggest complete rest, while others would say you can do a week or so of easy spinning. It's hard to know what will work for you, so you will just have to toss a coin and give it a try. 

You've been furiously digging this hole for 3 months, and now with 3 weeks until your race, you're hoping for a magic cure. Best of luck.


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## kreuzberg (Feb 1, 2009)

I looked up the symptoms of overtraining and I'm not really experiencing any of the physical or mental symptoms, apart from the burn in my legs. I'm wondering if I just spin for the next two weeks, maybe I'll feel better...? I think it's worth a shot.
I'm curious about overtraining, I've heard that it's really really hard to get to that point...


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## kef3844 (May 30, 2008)

Diet????? what are you eating and how much?

Maybe try going to get a good massage (not deep tissue), rest a couple days and see how it goes> Massage rocks!


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## wim (Feb 28, 2005)

*Misnomer.*



> _In April, I really ramped up the training, riding only around 15 hours each week, but including lots of intensity and lots of fast group rides and races. After a month of this I was pretty cooked, and although I've been experiencing fatigue day in day out since then, I mostly continued with the bad training habits, often dropping intervals, but doing at least one difficult group ride a week. _


What's normally called "overtraining" is rarely training too much—it's almost always training improperly. It's pretty clear from what you wrote that you have no training plan. In my view, your season is shot as far as successful racing is concerned, so use the rest of the year to recuperate while carefully putting together a 2010 training plan based on conventional wisdom. Perhaps best, find and pay a coach who is good at enforcing training discipline. In short: create order from chaos.


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## spade2you (May 12, 2009)

It sounds like overtraining to me, despite what you may see regarding symptoms. An actual trainer or at least something like Friel's book should help. 

For the love of Pete, take a break! If you have a hard ride, take an easy ride the next day. I overtrained last year and was amazed that taking an easy day would improve my strength after hard days.


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## iliveonnitro (Feb 19, 2006)

kreuzberg said:


> ... but doing at least one difficult group ride a week.
> Training this way has left me tired much of the time. It's gotten to the point where I can do about one very hard day per week ... I also have, on average, about one day per week where I feel very very strong, but I can only be at that level for one day before I get totally tired out again ..
> 
> Any advice on recovery, or what I should focus on leading up to the race?


The good news is that you are probably not overtrained, and you can come out of this well if you are smart. True overtraining implies that you wouldn't be able to do anything other than a recovery ride for weeks or months. Being able to do a hard day once a week just means you are deep in a hole. Continue to do it and you will be overtrained very soon.

Overtraining is not hard to get into from a physical standpoint, especially among athletes who constantly push themselves to go harder, faster, longer, etc. But, many people are quick to throw out the overtraining word when, in reality, they are just mentally burned out while over-reaching.

It actually sounds like you can turn this into a good, strong peak. I would first take one or two days completely off the bike, then do 2 recovery rides right away. From then on, I would limit your rides to 2hrs maximum, preferably 1-1.5hrs; 1 day OFF/wk, 1 recovery ride a week. Throw in some short intervals in each ride. 30s, 60s, 3min, 5min, 10min. Aim for about 30-45min of intensity on each ride. Time between each interval is recovery, time after intervals is tempo until you hit the 30-45min of work. Everything else is recovery.

It sucks to ride less time on each ride, but you'll come out strong.

edited for legal reasons


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## kreuzberg (Feb 1, 2009)

iliveonnitro said:


> The good news is that you are probably not overtrained, and you can come out of this well if you are smart. True overtraining implies that you wouldn't be able to do anything other than a recovery ride for weeks or months. Being able to do a hard day once a week just means you are deep in a hole. Continue to do it and you will be overtrained very soon...many people are quick to throw out the overtraining word when, in reality, they are just mentally burned out while over-reaching...It actually sounds like you can turn this into a good, strong peak.


Thats what thought too, that a lot of people overuse that word. I've always read that its really tough to get to the point where you are really overtrained. And I looked up the symptoms as defined by hunter allen, which are inability to raise heart rate to anaerobic threshold, inability to eat very much or sleep, sickness and deep muscle soreness. I have none of those symptoms except for maybe muscle soreness.


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## Kerry Irons (Feb 25, 2002)

*Self delusion*



kreuzberg said:


> Thats what thought too, that a lot of people overuse that word. I've always read that its really tough to get to the point where you are really overtrained. And I looked up the symptoms as defined by hunter allen, which are inability to raise heart rate to anaerobic threshold, inability to eat very much or sleep, sickness and deep muscle soreness. I have none of those symptoms except for maybe muscle soreness.


OK, if it makes you happy, you're over-reaching rather than over-training. The fix is the same. From the tone of your posts, it seems (reading between the lines) that you just can't bring yourself to accept that rest and recovery rides are what you need. Maybe I'm reading you wrong?


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## iliveonnitro (Feb 19, 2006)

Kerry Irons said:


> OK, if it makes you happy, you're over-reaching rather than over-training. The fix is the same. From the tone of your posts, it seems (reading between the lines) that you just can't bring yourself to accept that rest and recovery rides are what you need. Maybe I'm reading you wrong?


Sounds accurate to me.


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## kreuzberg (Feb 1, 2009)

Kerry Irons said:


> OK, if it makes you happy, you're over-reaching rather than over-training. The fix is the same. From the tone of your posts, it seems (reading between the lines) that you just can't bring yourself to accept that rest and recovery rides are what you need. Maybe I'm reading you wrong?


No, I've totally accepted that some serious R&R is in need. 

Thanks, Nitro, for the advice. I'm taking today and tomorrow off, then short recovery rides. I hope you are right!!


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## MarshallH1987 (Jun 17, 2009)

it can take a month or two of no riding to recover if you have pushed yourself too far. I recently took 6 weeks off following a long period of racing and whatnot. It'd be better to take a little too much time off than come back early and burn out again. When you do start riding again just take it very easy, like nose breathing pace.


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