# Shimano 11 speed in 2012



## lawrence

Have you heard the rumor that Shimano will have a 11 speed available to the public in 2012?


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## dover

really?? where did you hear that???


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## onefour02

i'm staying on my sram red and super record until shimano launches 11 speed.


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## Rubber Lizard

Why would Shimano launch an 11 speed group when they could one up campy with a 12 speed group? 
In all likelihood you will probably see a Shimano 12 speed setup with 135 mm rear spacing. There have been rumors of this for years. Probably where the 11 speed rumor you heard got started.


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## lawrence

They won't skip a 11 speed. They'll come out with a 11 speed and then a 12 speed if Campy doesn't beat them to it. A 12 speed will drive the prices down of the 11 & 10 speeds putting more bikes in more hands and give an opportunity for upgrades. In preparation, I'm selling my 9 & 10 speeds while the prices are still high and will be riding by Schwinn 10 speed (2x5) for awhile until the new 12 speeds come out. Then I'll wait for those prices to drop and become more reasonable before I buy.


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## onefour02

do you have to go to such extends?


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## lawrence

Only because I don't ride my Schwinn 10 speed very often anymore and there's something about riding a classic steel bike with friction shifters that reminds me of 1966.


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## onefour02

lawrence said:


> Only because I don't ride my Schwinn 10 speed very often anymore and there's something about riding a classic steel bike with friction shifters that reminds me of 1966.


OLD SKOOL! for the old cool!


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## kneejerk

Oh No!....... I was hoping the cycling community would come to their senses and adopt the 8 speed cassette with 3 rings up front!............It would be lighter, make rear wheels more reliable and offer more gears!......... but then there is that one Stigma!


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## davidka

There is a stigma about triples but everyone at the upper levels of the sport use doubles because triples shift poorly, are more prone to jamming (especially MTB) and make for a wider Q-factor. The rest of us can't help but follow them.

There's an old rumor that Shimano holds patents for a setup that has a 14 gear cogset made possible by a "half" chain that has link plates on only one side. I can see how that works in back but not up front. Must be a single chainring/guide setup?


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## garciawork

I do not understand why more than 10 is needed... heck, 9 worked fine...


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## SystemShock

lawrence said:


> Have you heard the rumor that Shimano will have a 11 speed available to the public in 2012?


Link? Source?

Otherwise, it's just 'some guy on the Internet sayin' somethin'.'
.


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## SystemShock

garciawork said:


> I do not understand why more than 10 is needed... heck, 9 worked fine...


Because ppl want tremendous range (very high high gear, very low low gear), with small jumps between gears... and yet are mostly unwilling to go to a triple to get these things. Partly due to some true disadvantages the triple has, and partly due to the poseur/'uncool' factor. 

It's kinda scary... you have these silly ppl who insist they GOTTA have top gearing like a European pro and low gearing like a touring bike rider, all with tiny jumps between gears. No compromises.

They want something like an 11-12-13-14-15-16-17-18-19-21-23-25-27-29-32 before they're through, and they'll likely get it, eventually. At what cost, though? :eek6:
.


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## terbennett

garciawork said:


> I do not understand why more than 10 is needed... heck, 9 worked fine...


I couldn't have said it better myself.


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## SystemShock

I wonder... is 2011 the year we finally see Shimano 11-spd? :idea:

If they do it, SRAM will follow. And vice-versa.

Campy's almost an afterthought. Shimano doesn't seem to care that they have one less cog than them... it's been that way since 2008. Campy barely scratches Shimano's marketshare.
.


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## maxxevv

Right....... if you use a bit of common sense and historical data, it will show that you're way off the mark in your speculations ....

Shimano without fail employs a 4.5-5.5 years product cycle in its top end groupset implementation for road groups. 

When was Di2 introduced ? EuroBike / Interbike 2009

When was the 7900 group introduced ? 2009 

Earliest is early '13, more likely fall '13 rather than 2012. It may even be 2014 !


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## kbwh

SystemShock said:


> Campy barely scratches Shimano's marketshare.


In other parts of the world we call that exclusivity.


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## veloci1

confimed by my LBS, Ultegra Di2. he does not pricing, but, it will be announced within the next 60 days.


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## pdainsworth

maxxevv said:


> Right....... if you use a bit of common sense and historical data, it will show that you're way off the mark in your speculations ....
> 
> Shimano without fail employs a 4.5-5.5 years product cycle in its top end groupset implementation for road groups.
> 
> When was Di2 introduced ? EuroBike / Interbike 2009
> 
> When was the 7900 group introduced ? 2009
> 
> Earliest is early '13, more likely fall '13 rather than 2012. It may even be 2014 !


Intended for Di2 comment...

We'll see if it happens but this makes it look possible for this year...
http://velonews.competitor.com/2010...wn-the-electric-with-ultegra-di2-group_153843


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## Cinelli 82220

*Velo News crybabies*

The reader demographic hasn't changed since I was on their forum years ago. Still a bunch of jealous resentful crybabies who hate anyone with a nicer bike or a more expensive part..



> I suppose those that can't hold a pace of 20mph on their Trek Madones with Zipp 404's have yet another toy to validate themselves as cyclists





> owning a electronic shiting grouppos when you aren't racing and need to lose a few kilos-yes, in my opinion this makes you a poser.





> So are you a Shimano plant, or are you one of those "dentists" that I see riding Pinarellos down the nature trail?


Pretty bitter and self important bunch. That guy who had his undies in a knot over someone wearing a rainbow jersey would fit right in.


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## Jarryd

Grrr I just caught up to the 10 speed! Although my old bike was 10 speed. two on the front and 10 on the back. 

I think I need to worry more about riding than if I have the option of 10 or 11 speeds!


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## jmchapple

*+1*



garciawork said:


> I do not understand why more than 10 is needed... heck, 9 worked fine...


we don't all available gear combinations anyway. we certainly don't need more. maybe making electric more affordable would be better. just my two cents.


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## MisterC

The pros change bikes mid race. Remove this necessity and you will have hit the ceiling. Until then, science marches on.

Shimano has a patent on 14 speed, it's true. This sort of foresight is not as uncommon as you might think.


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## vladvm

the secret is having the ability to spin smoothly with 120+ cadence OR ability to swap rear cogset depending on terrain before the ride. 

6-7 speed works very well, especially with a triple in front as long as friction shifters are used so it can be manually trimmed.


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## kneejerk

vladvm said:


> the secret is having the ability to spin smoothly with 120+ cadence OR ability to swap rear cogset depending on terrain before the ride.
> 
> 6-7 speed works very well, especially with a triple in front as long as friction shifters are used so it can be manually trimmed.


6 or 7 speeds with 10 speed spacing hopefully!...... come on, friction shifters?.... why, when Shimano has the capability to do the trimming electronically?

one thing I haven't seen mentioned in most of these "modern drive train, blues" threads is that now that the chains are micro narrow they wear out faster and ditto the gears...... sounds like job security.... back in the day you could run a chain likely as long as you owned the bike and only thing you would notice is when it broke on you..... at which point you would need a new drivetrain....... today you do that and the shifting goes to hell long before you replace the drivetrain.... and the chain will likely break sooner on the new stuff....... but hey, that's the price you pay to go "faster"!


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## MinnBobber

I hope we don't get in a race for 11/12/13/14 speed. 10 speeds seem like enough for any condition.


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## Optimus

Come on ... let's stay at 10 for awhile!!


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## CAADEL

I used to ride a 3x8 since 2001 and I always felt one gear was missing. 

I got a 2x9 in 2010 and I was super happy. I had everything I needed and the gearing was just right.

And now it's 2011 and for the first time in my life I own a 2x10 bike and honestly I never ever felt like an 11speed cassette is necessary at all. A 10speed cassette is a very good compromise between close ratio gearing and reliability. Why go for 11speed with an even narrower chain that is prone to faster wear???

To my mind Shimano is doing the right thing while not following Campagnolo on this. I guess Di-2 is the future and probably the next big thing will be a wireless Di-2 or a CVT for road bikes.
It's 2011 and we still see new 8speed cassettes or even 7speed cassettes on the market. 10 speed cassettes will be with us for the next 50 years. I'd rather buy an uber-better wheelset than go bankrupt just to own an 11speed Campagnolo groupset. It's too much of a bling for me.


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## lawrence

I don't have a problem going to a 11 speed as an option and with less chain wear, it's the riders/buyers choice. However, going to a higher speed reduces the availability of the lesser gears. Though right now you can get a speed in Sora or Tiagra, you can't get a 9 speed in 105 or Ultegra or replacement shifters at a decent price. If the 11 speed comes out, forget about 8 speed and 9 speed, you won't be able to get those at all and eventually the 10 speeds will go the way of the 9 speeds.


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## maxxevv

Yes, I have to agree. Eventually, it would be much better to get a CVT with equivalent levels of efficiency to current derailleur systems versus a system with even more gears. 

Something like the Nuvinci hubs which are truly stepless and with a 360+ % gear stepping, is plenty enough for road bikes. 

A 53/12 is only 440%, 39/25 is 156%, effective range is only 284%. 

Putting it in you can get get a range of between 1:13 to 1:4.73 (a 3.6x gain), and something like 34/30 and 52/11 in one combination is theoretically possible!! And all completely stepless! That would be very cool indeed, even for climbing of the hardest 'amateur' climbs out there ! 

Unfortunately, they are at the moment quite heavy and unwieldy to build on roadbikes. Also, their efficiency levels are not quite at that of current derailleur and chain systems yet. 

But they are making steady inroads into city bikes and niche areas such as beach cruisers. So, perhaps they will become "mainstream" in time to come, and bring their weight down further from the current 2400g for the hubs. And you could take out the chain and replace it with a belt too if maintenance is a moot point...


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## Aaron McDevitt

Hi everyone, I just registered, so this is my first post.

Anyway, I've been riding my road bike for years, but just for commuting. I just now adjusted the rear derailer for the first time (it rode quite well for a looong time without any attention except several tubes & 1 new set of tires), and I can say I certainly don't want more speeds!!

I have a 30 speed, and like pushing myself, yet even so I only ever use 2 of the chainrings, and - although I do go through all the cogs - a 10 speed cassette might be one or two overkill.

So... 11 speed cassette? Why? I don't think I would ever ever ever need that many, EVEN with 2 chainrings.

On a side note, I have a question while I am here:
This was my first time, so I read several online articles on adjusting the rear derailer. They all said adjust the H & L stops first, then the indexing. I found that after adjusting the barrel, I had to seriously tighten the lower stop again (maybe 2 or 3 full turns) in order to get smooth downshifting. Is this correct? I still have to sacrifice for either lagging upshifting or lagging downshifting. Is this also normal, or might I have a bent derailer hanger? By "lagging" I mean maybe half pedal (top to bottom) to fully downshift on a mid-chainring-low cog combination.


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## John C Picking Jr

I am buying Ultegra 6600 components on ebay so I have a supply of 10 speed parts for a while. It is cheaper to get a whole crank set than just the two chain rings. I am also building an Ultegra 6700. I'll buy extra of that group set too. I love the 12-23 rear cassette on a ten speed. (South Jersey, no hills)


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## Rugergundog

Campy is 11 speed.......how many people actually buy it because, "Man Campy has an extra gear over the SRAM and Shimano, im going campy". I don't think that is a major player in why anyone chooses Campy. That said i don't think there is a HUGE motivation to make a quick change to 11 speed.......however i do see it happening to keep a new product out there and people spending ..........prob more so to keep up with the Jones..


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## lawrence

More gears are always nicer because it gives you more usable gears somewhere in the middle. A 10 spd has the same low and high gear that a 7 speed (assuming close space gearing rather than wide space gearing) has but has more gears in between so you can find a more comfortable gear for riding.

Unless they make wider frame bikes in the rear dropouts, chains and gears are getting thinner and going to wear out faster. Bike stores and parts manufacturers love this.


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## cornas

Thought this thread would be about this:

Shimano Dura-Ace Di2: 11-speed And Disc Brakes For 2013? - BikeRadar

Then I saw the dates...


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## vette

garciawork said:


> I do not understand why more than 10 is needed... heck, 9 worked fine...


I agree, when is enuff,they should find a chain replacement or a diff. approach to a seat


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