# Colnago,what's the big deal about it ? (long)



## Devastazione (Dec 8, 2011)

*****TOPIC UPDATED BY OP ON 4-28-2018,GO TO LAST PAGE******


Let me first start off with this : I'm italian and I live in Italy.

Started riding in 2009 (mtb) and already owned a whole lotta bikes. Italian,french and then moved on to Specialized,and a new world opened up to me. I've been a loyal customer of the big red S since december 2010 and find their bikes out of this world perfect. I already went through 5 of their bikes and still own 3 of them. I've moved on to road bike in 2012 and the choice was obviously a Specialized. Again,I feel like Specialized bikes are tailored to my size and their look is just plain stunning to me. Heck,I've even had to pull over in Morgan Hill during my vacation to take some pics last year ! A little chapter with Cannodale last year but that lasted only 6 months.
The drawback ?Probably in a typical american way a 2 years old Specialized looks jurassical,but maybe that is just me. Graphics,frames,it seems like they get old way too fast and it seems that they get better and better every year. 
To make a long story short : my LBS granted me a 20% off to a new Colnago C60 but….what is the big deal about a Colnago bike ? History and Made in Italy does not appeal much to me,really. The reason I'm looking at a Colnago C60 is because I'm gonna have my first child in october,wich means it aint' no more flipping 2 bikes a year for a while. 
Ok,let's say I'll buy a C60 and really….what am I gonna lose/gain over my mid tier 2012 Specialized ? Superb handling ? Submlime stiffness ? A bike that handles like a Ferrari rather that a floaty supercharged Mustang ? A frame that oozes perfection in each detail ? I'm looking to get a "bike for life" and I once again feel that the usual black Tarmac Sworks may not fit the bill here.
Please chime in folks. And if deep down is just a matter of "Made in Italy" and "history and traditions" I'm afraid I'm gonna stick with my "designed in California made in Taiwan bikes" for a while.


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## Retro Grouch (Apr 30, 2002)

I hear you, brother. The Italian thing didn' t appeal to me either. In fact, that's why I settled on my Honda Accord and not a Ferrari F-40.:idea:


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## Herkwo (Nov 8, 2002)

Sounds like you have made up your own mind... Stay w/ your Specialized. Some one else will buy the Colnago.


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## Pirx (Aug 9, 2009)

[Shrug...] If you like Specialized, then get a Specialized. Beats me why anyone would buy anything at all from that outfit, but that's me. I would get the Colnago with a Campy group, of course, but again, that's me.

Here's the dirty little secret that nobody but me would tell you: It makes no effin' difference in any objective way. It's all about what looks pretty to you, and that's all there is to it.


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## Winn (Feb 15, 2013)

I used to have an older Colnago and it was indeed a wonderful bike. It was an old steel bike. I had a Specialized before that and I replaced the Colnago with another Specialized because I wanted something more suited to commuting. I don't regret it I absolutely love my Specialized. So is there something special about a Colnago? Yes for sure but I really do think I'm more suited to a Specialized. Ride the Colnago and see what you think.


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## Trek_5200 (Apr 21, 2013)

Devastazione said:


> Let me first start off with this : I'm italian and I live in Italy.
> 
> Started riding in 2009 (mtb) and already owned a whole lotta bikes. Italian,french and then moved on to Specialized,and a new world opened up to me. I've been a loyal customer of the big red S since december 2010 and find their bikes out of this world perfect. I already went through 5 of their bikes and still own 3 of them. I've moved on to road bike in 2012 and the choice was obviously a Specialized. Again,I feel like Specialized bikes are tailored to my size and their look is just plain stunning to me. Heck,I've even had to pull over in Morgan Hill during my vacation to take some pics last year ! A little chapter with Cannodale last year but that lasted only 6 months.
> The drawback ?Probably in a typical american way a 2 years old Specialized looks jurassical,but maybe that is just me. Graphics,frames,it seems like they get old way too fast and it seems that they get better and better every year.
> ...


You should not buy a Colnago.


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## Donn12 (Apr 10, 2012)

Since you are in italy maybe specialized is the exotic import? start with how they look and then get the one you love to ride. If its your last splurge before kids get electric shift....you will be ruined!


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## Roland44 (Mar 21, 2013)

Donn12 said:


> Since you are in italy maybe specialized is the exotic import? start with how they look and then get the one you love to ride. If its your last splurge before kids get electric shift....you will be ruined!


lol great advice , +1!!


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## MR_GRUMPY (Aug 21, 2002)

Back in the 70's and 80's, Nags were the top of the line......along with Bianchi's, made in the "racing department".
Now, they are just another frame.
.
.


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## MagicCarpet (Apr 12, 2009)

Let's get real. A bike for life has to be lugged, or it doesn't qualify as a bike for life. I spent too long lusting over that lugged carbon frame from Tommasini and the bastards discontinued it. The worst thing they ever did. Not long before that I got run over the second time on my Diamante, so now that's rooted too and I am lugless. Take it from me, being lugless sucks arse.

Bike for life = lugs

Lugs = C60.

Alrighty, gotta go. Cheers and please post some pics of the C60 when you can. Be sure to include closeups of the lugged bits.


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## aclinjury (Sep 12, 2011)

bike for life means something metal, preferably an expensive metal, something like Reynold 953 or Columbus Xcr, custom geometry.

Any carbon bike, regardless of brand, is.. well... disposable.

But it doesn't look like you're type who appreciate anything for life. So just buy another Specialized.

(PS: your English writing doesn't sound at all like an Italian).


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## Mapei (Feb 3, 2004)

I don't know what the geometry is with more recent Colnago bicycles, but Colnago geometry is traditionally a little different than most other makers. Most significantly, the head tube angle is so slack, they're actually embarrassed to say it in the brochures.

The thing is, the geometry works superbly in real life. The bicycles handle slightly less quickly than the competition but they feel much more relaxed under you. You can still careen around that corner at the same speed as with the other bikes, but when you're just scooting along, the 'Nag is like a grand touring car, ever inviting you to go that extra mile. 

What's more, the ride will never punish you. Sure, other bicycles can deliver a magic carpet ride, too, but my _aluminum_ Colnago, despite its rather healthily wide frame tubes, rides better than many of the steel frames I've had in my day. 

It doesn't hurt that the things are pretty.


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## aclinjury (Sep 12, 2011)

You're in Italy. Why not go for a custom steel there? Cicli Barco would build a bike for life. That's what I'd do.

Personally I would not buy any high end Italian carbon fiber bike from any of the Italian makes if I'm going to make it a "keep for life". Carbon fiber bikes are disposable.


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## Bill2 (Oct 14, 2007)

Here's a nice write up with pics of frame construction
Presentazione Colnago C60 | BDC-MAG.com | Bici da corsa


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## laffeaux (Dec 12, 2001)

Funny that you mention a Ferrari in your description. I was going to compare Colnago to Ferrari. You know that company that has been racing forever, producing race-winning high-end machines that everyone lusted after, a name synonymous with the top racing teams of all time...

Specialized is fine. They make bikes that range from kid's bikes all the way to (over the past couple of years) bikes raced by pro teams. They're a good brand but have little or no storied history.

Ride what fits you and what speaks to you. But recognize that there's a history behind some names.


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## Tachycardic (Mar 31, 2013)

I would have totally agreed with you 1.5 years ago when I was looking for my "bike for life". Living in Japan, I wanted a smaller company to build my lugged dream. But each place that I went to said no after my fitting. Apparently I'm built like a gorilla and they would only brazed a frame for me. And if you know a little about the Japanese, when they are set in their ways, there's really no talking them out of a decision. So I finally gave in and got myself a custom fillet brazed steel frame (BB and fork are lugged), and I absolutely love it! Do I still lust for a lugged frame? No, not really. I am completely happy with the fit and look of my bicycle, which goes back to the OP...money aside, it doesn't matter whether you get a Specialized or a Colnago, get something that fits you the best and enjoy life! 



MagicCarpet said:


> Let's get real. A bike for life has to be lugged, or it doesn't qualify as a bike for life. I spent too long lusting over that lugged carbon frame from Tommasini and the bastards discontinued it. The worst thing they ever did. Not long before that I got run over the second time on my Diamante, so now that's rooted too and I am lugless. Take it from me, being lugless sucks arse.
> 
> Bike for life = lugs
> 
> ...


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## steel515 (Sep 6, 2004)

I totally agree with Devastione. 2 problems are: price- $5000 for a frame? Also, the paint job looks too modern. Can't they at least use the traditional paint styles?


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## Devastazione (Dec 8, 2011)

aclinjury said:


> (PS: your English writing doesn't sound at all like an Italian).


Ah,thanks,this flatters me. I've lived in the US for a while.


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## Devastazione (Dec 8, 2011)

I think I've stretched the bike for life concept a bit too much. "Bike for life" to me means something that won't make me lose sleep over the new model for about 4 years...make it 5.


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## eriku16 (Jul 27, 2011)

MR_GRUMPY said:


> Back in the 70's and 80's, Nags were the top of the line......along with Bianchi's, made in the "racing department".
> Now, they are just another frame.
> .
> .


 Back in those days, you really needed to be fit to ride one. They came with a 14-18 corncob freewheels and tubies standard. The freds and posers of today could never ride them as the grearing was scary tall.


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## Trek_5200 (Apr 21, 2013)

Devastazione said:


> Let me first start off with this : I'm italian and I live in Italy.
> 
> Started riding in 2009 (mtb) and already owned a whole lotta bikes. Italian,french and then moved on to Specialized,and a new world opened up to me. I've been a loyal customer of the big red S since december 2010 and find their bikes out of this world perfect. I already went through 5 of their bikes and still own 3 of them. I've moved on to road bike in 2012 and the choice was obviously a Specialized. Again,I feel like Specialized bikes are tailored to my size and their look is just plain stunning to me. Heck,I've even had to pull over in Morgan Hill during my vacation to take some pics last year ! A little chapter with Cannodale last year but that lasted only 6 months.
> The drawback ?Probably in a typical american way a 2 years old Specialized looks jurassical,but maybe that is just me. Graphics,frames,it seems like they get old way too fast and it seems that they get better and better every year.
> ...


Personally I view the comment about being Italian and living in Italy as a red herring. It's like me ranting about buying a Seven and then bringing up my being born and raised in America. It really has nothing to do with whether the brand merits the accolades brought on it or not.


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## Devastazione (Dec 8, 2011)

Trek_5200 said:


> Personally I view the comment about being Italian and living in Italy as a red herring. It's like me ranting about buying a Seven and then bringing up my being born and raised in America. It really has nothing to do with whether the brand merits the accolades brought on it or not.


I was just pointing that I'm not after the made in Italy thing, even if I'm italian. Back in my town folks ride either Bianchi or Colnago and my lbs says "when it comes to road bike stick with the italians,we are still the best at it"..


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## Trek_5200 (Apr 21, 2013)

Devastazione said:


> I was just pointing that I'm not after the made in Italy thing, even if I'm italian. Back in my town folks ride either Bianchi or Colnago and my lbs says "when it comes to road bike stick with the italians,we are still the best at it"..


I hear you. I was looking at buying an Eddy Merckx EMX-5 last year and ran into some cyclists riding in NY that were visiting from Belgium. They told me they hadn't ridden a Merckx bike in years and that back home people weren't riding them either. Told me brands such as Specialized were far more common. 

There's nothing in the genes that makes Italian better than French or Taiwanese at building a bike. That said, I feel like what comes out of Taiwan and China as more mass produced , cookie cutter and assembly line. Contrast to Colnago or Seven or Parlee where I think the bike is more of a human effort and where they'll go the extra mile and do some nice things, but you do pay for that.

My own experience on Colnago having ridden one for just under a year, is that the bike is a great ride. I haven't ridden every bike under the sun, so I can't rattle off if it's better or worse than say a Tarmac, but it seems people hold on to their Colnagos and enjoy them far longer than say a Cannondale, Trek, Felt or Specialized. Maybe it's becaue they cost so much, so you better hold on to them, or maybe they just hold up.


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## froze (Sep 15, 2002)

Actually Colnago is indeed not special anymore, at least their carbon bikes are not. For more insight on this rather bizarre tale see: http://forums.roadbikereview.com/colnago/colnagos-not-made-colnago-256521.html Read through because it changes dramatically from what the first post says.

Usually, though not always, but this is the case with Colnago, Trek, and others, their highest end bikes are made in the country from where the company resides...which takes us to the C60, that frame is indeed built in Italy.

Technically if a company has put in at least most, most meaning 51% or more of the cost of either labor and or material into a bike then that product can have whatever country that did the most, in this example Colnago of Italy paints the frame after receiving it from China, then they slap on Campy components, which are made mostly in Italy, now the value of the components, paint, plus labor exceeds the cost of the frame so thus they can legally claim the bike was made in Italy.

Cars are the same way, people run out and buy made in America cars, but the electronics come from China, the seats and upholstery from Mexico, and other parts made in a variety of countries come swirling in like a hurricane from all over the world and settle in Detroit where they assemble the car using American paint, American mechanicals, and American steel, so since at least 51% of the value of the total sum of all the components came from America then it's an American car regardless if 49% of it came from China or wherever. What I find deceptive is that Walmart after catching flak about all the made in China stuff they sell they now have products coming out with labels that say "engineered in the USA" meaning a USA company drew up the plans for the item, it was then sent to China to be built from the ground up, but they don't tell you that, all they say is engineered in the USA to make people think their getting a product made in the USA.

Getting back to Colnago, Colnago no longer has any competitive edge like it use to when steel bike reigned, so buying a Colnago today does not get you leading edge technology, but the lugged construction of the C60 does allow more customization of the frame and more size offerings vs other methods of joining a tube, and lugs improve the ride quality; but there is some controversy about lugs being stronger, the prevailing argument is that it is not stronger which is why most companies are getting away from the lugged constructed carbon fiber bike...that and cost.

Again all that is subject to opinions and beliefs so I'm sure a bunch will argue against what I said, that's ok, it's just opinions.


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## maximum7 (Apr 24, 2008)

> I think I've stretched the bike for life concept a bit too much. "Bike for life" to me means something that won't make me lose sleep over the new model for about 4 years...make it 5.


Then I wouldn't go with Spesh or Trek or any of the "supermarket bikes." They "change" them every year so they say. 

Companies like Colnago and Pinarello and Time and Look keep the same frames in their line ups for years, and they usually stay relevant for years. 

If I knew I had to keep a bike for several years, I would be trying out more than two bikes. I would test ride everything I could get my hands on. 
You haven't even ridden the Nag and you're already prejudiced against it. 
When I started out, I wanted a Bianchi so bad I lost sleep over it. I finally rode one and didn't like it at all. 
Then I drove 3 hours to ride my next "dream bike" a Pinarello and I didn't like that either. I ended up riding 5 different brands that day and bought one I had never even thought about. 

You can't be truly honest with yourself until you ride it.


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## Cooper1960 (Oct 14, 2010)

You ever see the TV commercial featuring "the most interesting man in the world"? He would ride a Colnago while the rest of you tool around on your Treks and Specials wanting to be him. 

Or as I'm sure your father told you at some point "If I got to explain it to you we may as well forget it, you will never understand"

Personally I like things a bit different, something with a bit of class and snap, my C50 rides like a dream and is beautiful to look at. It fits me and it fits my personality, I don't want to live a generic life.


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## Winn (Feb 15, 2013)

Cooper1960 said:


> You ever see the TV commercial featuring "the most interesting man in the world"? He would ride a Colnago while the rest of you tool around on your Treks and Specials wanting to be him.
> 
> Or as I'm sure your father told you at some point "If I got to explain it to you we may as well forget it, you will never understand"
> 
> Personally I like things a bit different, something with a bit of class and snap, my C50 rides like a dream and is beautiful to look at. It fits me and it fits my personality, I don't want to live a generic life.


That's pretty sad. If you need a fancy bike to feel original. I'm sure you're joking. Just being a cyclist no matter what you ride makes it impossible to live a generic life. Bottom line here is get what you want to ride not what someone tells you to ride. Contentment comes from places other than bicycles.


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## Trek_5200 (Apr 21, 2013)

Winn said:


> That's pretty sad. If you need a fancy bike to feel original. I'm sure you're joking. Just being a cyclist no matter what you ride makes it impossible to live a generic life. Bottom line here is get what you want to ride not what someone tells you to ride. Contentment comes from places other than bicycles.


Oh please. That's the logic behind the whole luxury brand concept. Personally, I enjoy high end brands, they're made well and often made to last. Have a Breitling for ten years that I would give up, a BMW for nearly as long, and now this year a Colnago. As long as these things are not done beyond one's means nothing wrong with it.

Where I have an issue is when it's done with borrowed money or the stuff needs to be traded in every year or two. Hope to have my c-59 for a long time. Kept the Trek for over ten years, and when you do the math that's just a few hundred dollar a year and considerably cheaper than the guy that buys the Specialized or Cannondale only to buy something else after two years.


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## Devastazione (Dec 8, 2011)

Cooper1960 said:


> You ever see the TV commercial featuring "the most interesting man in the world"? He would ride a Colnago while the rest of you tool around on your Treks and Specials wanting to be him.
> 
> Or as I'm sure your father told you at some point "If I got to explain it to you we may as well forget it, you will never understand"
> 
> Personally I like things a bit different, something with a bit of class and snap, my C50 rides like a dream and is beautiful to look at. It fits me and it fits my personality, I don't want to live a generic life.



Man,this is absolutely off topic. I'm looking to know if a Colnago bike may be a better performer on flat and/or twisty road in a typical way the italian build their cars : zippy and nervous with a lot of body energy required to make the best off the ride.
Honestly the most boring people I've met in my life they'd all wear Rolex watches and drove Porsche. If acquiring fancy labels/brand makes one think he would be saved from the generic and ordinary life well that is pretty sad.

We are cyclist,we are pretty much down to heart cool folks and we look 25 even if we are 40,I guess that is more than enough to makes us not generic people.


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## Winn (Feb 15, 2013)

Trek_5200 said:


> Oh please. That's the logic behind the whole luxury brand concept. Personally, I enjoy high end brands, they're made well and often made to last. Have a Breitling for ten years that I would give up, a BMW for nearly as long, and now this year a Colnago. As long as these things are not done beyond one's means nothing wrong with it.
> 
> Where I have an issue is when it's done with borrowed money or the stuff needs to be traded in every year or two. Hope to have my c-59 for a long time. Kept the Trek for over ten years, and when you do the math that's just a few hundred dollar a year and considerably cheaper than the guy that buys the Specialized or Cannondale only to buy something else after two years.


Dude I owned a Colnago, purchased it within my means and rode it for 8 years it was a great bike. Specialized makes a great bike too. Lots of folks do. In my opinion the ride quality isn't necessarily better on a Colnago just different.


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## junior1210 (May 2, 2013)

Devastazione said:


> ......... I'm looking to know if a Colnago bike may be a better performer on flat and/or twisty road in a typical way the italian build their cars : zippy and nervous with a lot of body energy required to make the best off the ride...........


I've never tried a Colnago, but most all bikes (theoretically Colnago's are the same) perform based on their geometry. If you want quick, nervous steering then look for a steep head tube angle. I have no idea if they have a bike in their lineup with the geometry you want, but what I'd do is find a bike that performs the way you like (never mind the brand right now), then find a bike that rides the way you like (soft, springy, or what ever), then see if Colnago offers a bike with those qualities. At their price point they probably do, but if not, move on to one of the hundreds (lowball) of other bike builders, including custom frame builders.


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## Cooper1960 (Oct 14, 2010)

((" quote; You ever see the TV commercial featuring "the most interesting man in the world"? He would ride a Colnago while the rest of you tool around on your Treks and Specials wanting to be him. 

Or as I'm sure your father told you at some point "If I got to explain it to you we may as well forget it, you will never understand"

Personally I like things a bit different, something with a bit of class and snap, my C50 rides like a dream and is beautiful to look at. It fits me and it fits my personality, I don't want to live a generic life."))

Yes I made this post tongue in cheek, except for the last paragraph, I do like things a bit different, not to call attention to myself but just because, I guess it's hard to explain.

In reality you buy what you want, simple as that, looks, fit, performance, price, warranty, availability, what your friends ride, what you research, it all comes together and you decide. I disparage no one who rides a bike, ANY bike, or for that matter anyone who pursues a healthy lifestyle. I do believe the choices we make in our pursuits and the choices we make in our equipment are a couple of the things that make it all the more fun, the differences always gives us something to talk about.

OP enjoy your Specialized, as long as it makes you smile and keeps you riding life is good.


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## Bill2 (Oct 14, 2007)

Devastazione said:


> Man,this is absolutely off topic. I'm looking to know if a Colnago bike may be a better performer on flat and/or twisty road in a typical way the italian build their cars : zippy and nervous with a lot of body energy required to make the best off the ride.
> Honestly the most boring people I've met in my life they'd all wear Rolex watches and drove Porsche. If acquiring fancy labels/brand makes one think he would be saved from the generic and ordinary life well that is pretty sad.
> 
> We are cyclist,we are pretty much down to heart cool folks and we look 25 even if we are 40,I guess that is more than enough to makes us not generic people.


Does the LBS have one you can test ride? Why would you seek a random internet poster's opinion over your own experience on such a costly purchase?


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## Devastazione (Dec 8, 2011)

Bill2 said:


> Does the LBS have one you can test ride? Why would you seek a random internet poster's opinion over your own experience on such a costly purchase?


Unfortunately my lbs is on the smallish side and provides very little test ride opportunites with Scott and Bianchi only.
Sorry i do disagree about the internet opinion thing, this forum made me a better diy bike mech and lot more...


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## Trek_5200 (Apr 21, 2013)

Devastazione said:


> Unfortunately my lbs is on the smallish side and provides very little test ride opportunites with Scott and Bianchi only.
> Sorry i do disagree about the internet opinion thing, this forum made me a better diy bike mech and lot more...


Visited several bike shops last year discusing purchase and test rides, Test rides on Bianchis and Cannondales were not an issue, but when it came to Colnago c-59's another matter. One bike shop explained it this way, most bike were not assembled with only a frame in the back, add to that the size requirements of the purchaser and it's a difficult task. 

That's the big difference between buying a Felt or Orbea where there might be over a dozen of similar bikes on display where the bike shop could take a deposit and let you drive, vs a Colnago C-59 where they might have one on display and it's not likely to be your size.


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## mikerp (Jul 24, 2011)

Devastazione said:


> Man,this is absolutely off topic. I'm looking to know if a Colnago bike may be a better performer on flat and/or twisty road in a typical way the italian build their cars : zippy and nervous with a lot of body energy required to make the best off the ride.


If that's the ride type you want, I'd go for a Ridley Noah Fast.


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## Trek_5200 (Apr 21, 2013)

Devastazione said:


> Man,this is absolutely off topic. I'm looking to know if a Colnago bike may be a better performer on flat and/or twisty road in a typical way the italian build their cars : zippy and nervous with a lot of body energy required to make the best off the ride..


In my opinion Colnago excels at long distance and uphill climbing, but certainly it could be used in the way you suggest.


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## RRRoubaix (Aug 27, 2008)

Devastazione- this is an impossible question to answer, if you cannot ride and compare the bikes.
I'm glad you've forsaken the "bike for life" bit- I think most of us accept that our tastes (not to mention technology) will change over the years.
I like Colnagos. I'd love to own one someday. I like Specialized. I own 5 of them. It really sounds to me like it's more a question of the graphics looking out of date too soon. I certainly can relate to that, although some years are worse than others... but you could always have a bike repainted?


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## stevesbike (Jun 3, 2002)

the short answer is that Colnagos are built in the opposite way re the qualities you list here. They are not quick, flickable handling bikes. They are intended to have quite neutral steering and reflect stage racing design. Here's Matt Phillips (experienced bike reviewer's comments on the c60 ride impressions): 

"The handling was similar to many European bikes I’ve ridden—requiring a bit more directive from the rider to change its line than an American-style bike. It is not a slower-handling bike in my opinion, just more deliberate in its actions."



Devastazione said:


> Man,this is absolutely off topic. I'm looking to know if a Colnago bike may be a better performer on flat and/or twisty road in a typical way the italian build their cars : zippy and nervous with a lot of body energy required to make the best off the ride.
> Honestly the most boring people I've met in my life they'd all wear Rolex watches and drove Porsche. If acquiring fancy labels/brand makes one think he would be saved from the generic and ordinary life well that is pretty sad.
> 
> We are cyclist,we are pretty much down to heart cool folks and we look 25 even if we are 40,I guess that is more than enough to makes us not generic people.


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## CoLiKe20 (Jan 30, 2006)

some people likes colnago, some don't. hard to explain or convert. Ride one then make up your opinion.
FYI, I have a colnago. It's not more special than the Litespeed or Merlin.


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## froze (Sep 15, 2002)

Trek_5200 said:


> Oh please. That's the logic behind the whole luxury brand concept. Personally, I enjoy high end brands, they're made well and often made to last. Have a Breitling for ten years that I would give up, a BMW for nearly as long, and now this year a Colnago. As long as these things are not done beyond one's means nothing wrong with it.
> 
> Where I have an issue is when it's done with borrowed money or the stuff needs to be traded in every year or two. Hope to have my c-59 for a long time. Kept the Trek for over ten years, and when you do the math that's just a few hundred dollar a year and considerably cheaper than the guy that buys the Specialized or Cannondale only to buy something else after two years.


A Breitling for 10 years? That's not remotely a test of time for a mechanical watch! I have a automatic Tissot that's 43 years old and still works great, and Tissot's don't cost anywhere near a Breitling. I bought an 84 Trek 660 and put over 160,000 miles on it and still runs great but didn't cost anything near the price of a top of the Colnago did back then. I think people over spend to get stuff, but if it makes you happy to be standing next to others at the Country Club pro shop with a Breitling on instead of a Tissot, Oris, Mido, and Certina just to name a few that cost far less and run just as good and just as long then so be it. BMW makes a fine car, they're not any more expensive than a Lexus or an Infinity and you'll see those cars at your country club. But if you're a man of quite some means and can afford this stuff without being in debt to have them then I agree with you, you should have whatever you want including the Colnago, I would never buy a Colnago but I don't have unlimited income either but besides that point I don't happen to like the looks of them so I would never buy one regardless of income, but that's just a personal opinion not meant to be a slam, it's like art I don't like Picasso but many of my friends do.

I see you don't believe in debt too, I don't either, on the personal side of my life I am completely debt free, my LLC business does have debt but it's good debt because the income generated more than exceeds the loan payments.


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## ragweed (Jan 2, 2009)

I have a Colnago CLX that honestly I bought in large part because of the bling factor and I’ve definitely gotten my monies worth over the 5 years that I’ve owned it. I continue to get several compliments a year from other riders on how much they like the look of it and I’ve been surprised by the number of people who “know me” not because they know me but because they recognize my bike.

And I have to share this Colnago highlight moment. Last year while on a century this one gal and I kept passing each other riding up a set of rollers. As she went by near the last hilltop she slowed down and said, “I just have to tell you that I really like the look of your bike.” She pause then said, “And I also really like how you look on it as well.” 

At 57, that’s priceless!


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## Devastazione (Dec 8, 2011)

ragweed said:


> I have a Colnago CLX that honestly I bought in large part because of the bling factor and I’ve definitely gotten my monies worth over the 5 years that I’ve owned it. I continue to get several compliments a year from other riders on how much they like the look of it and I’ve been surprised by the number of people who “know me” not because they know me but because they recognize my bike.


Lol..been there done that. Back in my place I'm the Specialized man.


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## MXL (Jun 26, 2012)

eriku16 said:


> Back in those days, you really needed to be fit to ride one. They came with a 14-18 corncob freewheels and tubies standard. The freds and posers of today could never ride them as the grearing was scary tall.


Heck, you'll never see a pro riding anything close to a 14-18 - even if they did make it.


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## Trek_5200 (Apr 21, 2013)

Some of the posters are responding saying they own Colnagos, don't see anything special but aren't identifying the bike. Aside from models such as Master, C-40,c-50, Extreme C, Extreme Power C, C-59 & C-60, the rest of their line-up is quite different, being produced in Taiwan by the same companies stamping out Giants or Cannondales etc. If you guy a cx-zero or clx-3, you might be getting a nice bike, but you not getting a true Colnago and are basically buying the name


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## Cooper1960 (Oct 14, 2010)

In the very first post the OP states he is Italian and lives in Italy, yet in post #12 he claims to have lived in the US for awhile. Makes me go hmmmm.


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## Trek_5200 (Apr 21, 2013)

Cooper1960 said:


> In the very first post the OP states he is Italian and lives in Italy, yet in post #12 he claims to have lived in the US for awhile. Makes me go hmmmm.


I think the whole point of the post was to be provacative and get the pro and anti Colnago guys going at it. Maybe even start a flame war.


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## mikerp (Jul 24, 2011)

Cooper1960 said:


> In the very first post the OP states he is Italian and lives in Italy, yet in post #12 he claims to have lived in the US for awhile. Makes me go hmmmm.


Based on his post history, he is being truthful.


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## Jay Strongbow (May 8, 2010)

Cooper1960 said:


> You ever see the TV commercial featuring "the most interesting man in the world"? *He would ride a Colnago while the rest of you tool around on your Treks and Specials wanting to be him.*
> 
> Or as I'm sure your father told you at some point "If I got to explain it to you we may as well forget it, you will never understand"
> 
> Personally I like things a bit different, something with a bit of class and snap, my C50 rides like a dream and is beautiful to look at. It fits me and it fits my personality, I don't want to live a generic life.


I hate to break the news to you but other than being outdated technology at a high price there's really nothing different or not generic about your bike. 
It's a non-custom bike from one of the most known bike makers in the world. Great bike, yes. Different, exotic, interesting, no.


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## Devastazione (Dec 8, 2011)

Cooper1960 said:


> In the very first post the OP states he is Italian and lives in Italy, yet in post #12 he claims to have lived in the US for awhile. Makes me go hmmmm.


Sei proprio il solito americano cazzone con un sacco di tempo da sprecare online invece di parlare di bici. E secondo te io verrei qui a perdere tempo ? Ma mollami va.

E si,capita che un italiano o un europeo possa aver vissuto negli Stati Uniti,sai ? Non capisco cosa ci possa essere di strano cazzarola.

Here,I will translate my last sentence for you : it may happen than an italian or an european may have lived in the USA,you know ? Don't see what the fuss is all about,damn.


To all the others thanks for the good eye opening advices,keep 'em coming if you wish.


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## woodys737 (Dec 31, 2005)

I've ridden and raced four carbon frames one of which was a Colnago. All outstanding frames imo. To me they all performed similarly. Small differences in handling and feel but, not enough to make one jump out from the others. So, if each frame was sitting in front of me and I could only purchase one I'd choose the cheapest.


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## Fredrico (Jun 15, 2002)

MXL said:


> Heck, you'll never see a pro riding anything close to a 14-18 - even if they did make it.


Yep. They rode on 14-21s and put on 23 or 26 for the mountains. That was on 42 t. Chain rings. Bikes weighed 21 pounds with tubbies.

So we got strong!  Whacking up major climbs with the panache of our heroes, Hinault, LeMond, and of course Eddy. They showed us how it was done and we trained hard, thinking one day we would be able to ride like the pros. :ihih: Never happened, but we sure had fun trying.

Now everybody just wimps out with "compact cranks." 34-28? Are you kidding? Go back to hiking. We could have climbed one of these 15 pound carbon wonders in the large ring. Why would you need a 34 up front and a 28 in back? Only to recover and make it home after being dropped. Just sayin'. 

14-18 straight blocks were TT gearing, weren't they? Probably still are, only now 11-20.


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## froze (Sep 15, 2002)

Devastazione said:


> Sei proprio il solito americano cazzone con un sacco di tempo da sprecare online invece di parlare di bici. E secondo te io verrei qui a perdere tempo ? Ma mollami va.
> 
> E si,capita che un italiano o un europeo possa aver vissuto negli Stati Uniti,sai ? Non capisco cosa ci possa essere di strano cazzarola.
> 
> ...


You can get an English to Italian translator online, let me give you an example: 

È possibile ottenere una traduzione dall'inglese in italiano traduttore online, vi faccio un esempio.

Easy, so that unfortunately doesn't prove anything, not saying you're not, just saying it doesn't prove anything, and if I reverse the translator what you said in Italian was this:

You're just the usual american cazzone with a lot of time to waste online instead of talking about bikes. AND according to you i would definitely wasting their time here? But mollami va.

And yes,it can happen that an italian or a european might have lived in the United States,you know? I don't understand what there can be strange some thin.


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## scott967 (Apr 26, 2012)

Don't know about Colnago, but wouldn't mind checking out a Cipollini RB800 with Record.

scott s.
.


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## 9W9W (Apr 5, 2012)

Trek_5200 said:


> Personally I view the comment about being Italian and living in Italy as a red herring. It's like me ranting about buying a Seven and then bringing up my being born and raised in America. It really has nothing to do with whether the brand merits the accolades brought on it or not.


But it may have something do with that brands perception in his country. People go into debt to get into an E-class Mercedes here, in Berlin they are used as taxis. Same with German kitchen appliances. No big deal in other parts, the aspirational aspect of that brand is not there. His comment about being Italian is an invitation for ex-Italian buyers to bifurcate their desire for a Colnago into the storied exotic import and practical buckets.


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## rplace13 (Apr 27, 2011)

Be honest 90% of us buy a bike because it excites/moves us in some way. Be it the name, paint, team, look, components or some combination. The majority of cyclists don't make a living riding a bike or getting paid to ride one. We are gladly paying (a lot in some cases) to do it. Most would be better off dropping 10 pounds than forking out mega $$$$ on a bike under 20 pounds. Get whatever moves you and motivates you to ride. The best bike is the one you want to ride.

I'd take an early Colnago Master in Art Deco paint any day over black/red/white offerings from the last few years from just about any company. I think the argument that the monocoque offerings from Colnago are nothing special could hold water. But the C40, C50, C59 and now C60 have a certain....what is the Italian translation for...je ne sais quoi


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## Fredrico (Jun 15, 2002)

9W9W said:


> But it may have something do with that brands perception in his country. People go into debt to get into an E-class Mercedes here, in Berlin they are used as taxis. Same with German kitchen appliances. No big deal in other parts, the aspirational aspect of that brand is not there. His comment about being Italian is an invitation for ex-Italian buyers to bifurcate their desire for a Colnago into the storied exotic import and practical buckets.


I just took a really nice trip in a 2001 E320, averaging 65 mph all the way from TX to NVA. What a hoot! What a car! Those German cabbies sure drive a nice rig. :yesnod:

When I was stationed in Germany a few years back, the status cars there were Ford Mustangs, Camaros, American muscle cars. These cars were lousy on Medieval European roads and streets, but they highlighted American raw power over European finesse. At the time an American car would have been roughly the same price as a Mercedes was over here. A sergeant bought a Benz for 2800 bucks. He drove it for a couple of months, then had it shipped home as personal belongings when rotating stateside. If he'd bought it in the US he would have paid around 6-8000.

Seems quite likely Colnagos might have the same status in Italy that Trek Madones or Sevens have in the US. If I didn't know much about high end bikes, I'd probably like to ride a Colnago or DeRosa or Masi to see what the fuss is all about about Italian road bikes. Just try to get the same bike, frame at least, as the one your main hero is winning races on. Gosh,  that may no longer be an Italian road bike! Then you can explore your limits, knowing if he did it, so can you! :thumbsup: 

I liken a great bike to a fine musical instrument. You don't just ride a great bike like driving a sedan. You commune with the bike, continually exploring and discovering or rediscovering all the awesome things you can do with this bike. :yesnod: Then, when behind the wheel of your car, you begin to appreciate the capabilities and limitations of the car, too, and become a better driver.

I'd get the best frame I could afford, put used or available parts on it, and upgrade later if the frame's a keeper.


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## Bill2 (Oct 14, 2007)

scott967 said:


> Don't know about Colnago, but wouldn't mind checking out a Cipollini RB800 with Record.
> 
> scott s.
> .


Very sweet ride!


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## mikerp (Jul 24, 2011)

froze said:


> You can get an English to Italian translator online, let me give you an example:


Online translators typically do a word for word, the sentence structure will be off, and a thought/expression would be formulated entirely different in the other language.


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## froze (Sep 15, 2002)

mikerp said:


> Online translators typically do a word for word, the sentence structure will be off, and a thought/expression would be formulated entirely different in the other language.


Good point but I did run into one once, can't recall where on the internet I found it, that it did a very good job of translating, this one I used I too noticed some issues, but the point is a good translator can do a good enough job that most people except those that know the language really well would be fooled.

Again, I wasn't saying the Devastazione was lying, or I didn't believe him, just saying doing that language thing here doesn't really prove anything. Personally I believe the guy, he's never posted anything to indicate he's not believeable from what I could find.


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## Hiro11 (Dec 18, 2010)

The appeal: Colnago made Eddy's frames. Simple as that. It's funny to me that they've become such a cult brand these days. 25 years ago there were lots of other Italian brands that were just as prestigious (De Rosa, Pinarello, Tomassini, Rossin, Basso, Ciocc etc). Lots of these are still around, but Colnago seems to have been most successful in creating a cult image around their brand (with the possible exception of Pinarello).

I have no idea if a C60 is worth it. Lugged tubing seems like "form over function" to me and the "Master" shaping has always been marketing hype. Also, I'm slightly leary of the romantic "made in Italy" branding as I'll bet that it's more of a case of "Asian-made tubes and lugs glued together and painted in Italy" than "Made in Italy". As others have alreay mentioned, any Colnago other than a C60 was popped out of a mold in Asia so even that thin veneer of romance is gone with, say, an M10. Not that there's anything wrong with a frame that was popped out of a mold in Asia.

I will say that I've rarely seen a modern Colnago paintjob that I really liked. They're either too bland or too garish. Exception: Arashiro's custom Japanese Champion C59.


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## froze (Sep 15, 2002)

The Master's fluted Gilco Columbus tube shaping may have been marketing hype but I found it unique looking as was the paint jobs they put on those, I like things with a unique look, but I could never justify the price the Master sold for so never bought one. I don't typically like garish art but the Colnago Master I never considered garish, just unique with a nice blend of chrome to set it off. There were some color combinations they used in the art decor scheme I didn't much care for like the black and white, and the orange, white, and black.

What's odd about the Columbus Gilco tubeset is that the tubeset made for Columbus was 4 sided but all the other fluted tube sets made for other companies were 5 sided of which I've never seen those just the 4 sided Colnagos. However one must keep in mind that a fluted tube set is simply for artistic design, but it does add a little torsional stiffness supposedly but, again supposedly, was weaker in impacts then round. Who knows, in the end it was done for marketing and it worked well in that regard.


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## socrates (Sep 1, 2006)

Personally, I think it is a case of "the emperors new clothes". For some reason it is a Colnago and it must be fantastic. I have owned Colnago, Specialized, Merlin and Cannondale and have found the Colnago to be no better or worse than the others. Buy what suits you.


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## aclinjury (Sep 12, 2011)

9W9W said:


> But it may have something do with that brands perception in his country. People go into debt to get into an E-class Mercedes here, in Berlin they are used as taxis. Same with German kitchen appliances. No big deal in other parts, the aspirational aspect of that brand is not there. His comment about being Italian is an invitation for ex-Italian buyers to bifurcate their desire for a Colnago into the storied exotic import and practical buckets.


I've been in those "E class" taxis in some part of Europe, and the interior and engine and quality are not the same as the E-class sold in the US. Those E class taxis are not even as good as the US Honda Accord. It's the case of market segmentation thing.


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## Jay Strongbow (May 8, 2010)

aclinjury said:


> I've been in those "E class" taxis in some part of Europe, and the interior and engine and quality are not the same as the E-class sold in the US. Those E class taxis are not even as good as the US Honda Accord. It's the case of market segmentation thing.


right. Same car in name only. And regarding the German kitchen appliances analogy also use by 9W9W. Not claiming to know much about German kitchen stuff (or any kitchen stuff) but I did spend a lot of time in German kitchen stores looking for a gifts to bring back to the US and didn't see any indication that high end German stuff isn't viewed as anything but high end and expensive in Germany. Staggering prices actually. That's why I remember it so well, I was floored by the price of some of that German stuff in Germany. 

I get the point, 9W9W, and agree with it.....but you may not have used the best examples to make it.

Stella and Heineken beer might be better examples. Although most Americans have by now caught on that it's crappy beer......there was a time when it was viewed as high quality here in the US and skunk pi$$ in it's home country.


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## 9W9W (Apr 5, 2012)

I did the whole socialism thing in Europe and subsequent migration to 'Muricca! so my examples may have been a bit dated.


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## ultimobici (Jul 16, 2005)

I used to find it funny that an Italian would eschew his countryman's work in favour of other marques until a customer who is now a friend explained it to me.

He was working in London and had brought his bike with him. It was a Look with Dura Ace FSA & American Classic, which I used to service for him. One day he calls me and says "I need a new bike, which must be fully Italian. If not my friends are threatening to have my passport taken away!" Turns out the Look is fine in Italy where it is viewed as "exotic" but in London it had to be Fatto in Italia. Now he's on a Wilier Le Roi with full Record & Racing Ones. Passport was saved.

The thing about Colnagos is that in 20 years in the industry I have rarely, if ever, come across anyone who has rued the day they bought one. I don't sell them, so I'm not biased in their favour, far from it. My heart sinks when I hear that someone hankers after a C59 or a Master. They, together with De Rosa and a few other Italian marques have really nailed geometry that combines all the qualities a racing bike should have. Stiff, responsive & still comfortable is a hard mix to achieve. 

I had a Time VXRS and an old alloy De Rosa Merak. The VXRS fitted perfectly with no need for any funky parts or odd tweaks but although it was comfortable and very light it felt nervous on continental descents. The Merak needed the luck of a lady at Fizik wrapping the rails a little too far forward and an Deda 86 stem to match the fit properly but the handling was much much more surefooted downhill than the VXRS. I thought I'd never get rid of the Time instead of the Merak, but I did. The proceeds funded another Italian built frame which combined the De Rosa's handling attributes with the fit of the VXRS.


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## Mike Overly (Sep 28, 2005)

Sometimes something gets in your head and nothing objective can shake it. I ride a few different bikes and the old nag always feels the special-est. In addition to the relaxed head tube there is a super-stout rear triangle -- a rewarding combo when you just want to motor. 

But mostly it's just in our heads, and as long as we can't get it out of our heads, it's real, see.


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## Devastazione (Dec 8, 2011)

ultimobici said:


> I used to find it funny that an Italian would eschew his countryman's work in favour of other marques until a customer who is now a friend explained it to me.


it's typical of us italian to bash about our own country manufacturing abilities. The thing ramped up a lot more in these past 15/20 years.
I live in Italy and I can't see myself using a non american bike at this time,but if I was still living in the US like I did in the past I would probably ride a the famous Colnago I've decided to start this topic about. Still,I've never ever rode a Colnago or a De Rosa but I would love to.


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## Trek_5200 (Apr 21, 2013)

Devastazione said:


> it's typical of us italian to bash about our own country manufacturing abilities. The thing ramped up a lot more in these past 15/20 years.
> I live in Italy and I can't see myself using a non american bike at this time,but if I was still living in the US like I did in the past I would probably ride a the famous Colnago I've decided to start this topic about. Still,I've never ever rode a Colnago or a De Rosa but I would love to.


A little off topic but Italy... A country with some great engineers, but not great manufacturers. Lots of things get designed in Italy and produced elsewhere as a result, top end Colnagos not withstanding.


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## froze (Sep 15, 2002)

Trek_5200 said:


> A little off topic but Italy... A country with some great engineers, but not great manufacturers. Lots of things get designed in Italy and produced elsewhere as a result, top end Colnagos not withstanding.


I agree too, the Italians have great designers too, look at their car designs, but having owned Fiats and Alfa Romeos over the years they were mostly junk, the Alfa wasn't too bad but in light of American, German, and Japanese cars they were not up to those standards, but they did look good when they were sitting on the side of the road waiting a tow. I haven't owned a Italian car since the 80's so maybe they've improved their quality but so far with the new offering of Fiat in America I've been hearing their trouble prone, so maybe not.


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## carbonLORD (Aug 2, 2004)

They are completely different animals.


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## Winn (Feb 15, 2013)

carbonLORD said:


> They are completely different animals.


I take it you like them both...??


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## carbonLORD (Aug 2, 2004)

Winn said:


> I take it you like them both...??


There's a ton of things that bother me about this thread. I'll elaborate some...

If you are riding a M10, CLX etc, it's not a C59 so your "My Colnago rides just like every other carbon bike" is not a valid statement.

I have 4800 Km on the 2013 S-Works Venge and 2,400 Km on the 2013 C59. I've lived in Amsterdam since last year and am moving back to Chicago next week. Both flat windy places...

People who have never ridden a lugged frame cannot make blanket statements about form vs function or the likes, sorry, you can't. My BMC SLT01, also a lugged alloy frame with T6000 tubes was stiffer than any aluminum frame I have ever owned while the C59 rides like a Cadillac CTS-V. My Venge rides like a E49 M3 with a roll cage and upgraded sway bar, which is why it is my choice for Crit races. I have done 200 Km rides on it, but could go the distance on the C59 and feel fresh enough for a 10K run afterwards which is why it will continue to be my go to bike for distance.

Both bikes weigh 6.8 Kilo. The Venge has Di2 and ENVE's. The C59 has SR11 and 404's.

There is no final bike, there are bikes that serve a purpose. The right tool for the job, depending on what that job is.

I like both bikes for different reasons. If I had to choose one, it would be the C59 because it can do loger distance while keeping me fresh. The balance it serves is attributed by the lugged design and it's geometry. No it is not as responsive on a technical course due to the head tube angle and loger wheelbase. The S-W is a 58cm (XL) with a 58.5 TT and the C59 is a 60cm Traditional, also with a 58.5 TT. While similar in some regards, they are "completely different animals" when on the road.

The new C60 seems to me, to be a blue paper bike. Gone is the elegance and balanced feel in favor or a bike that holds to marketing hype, stiffer is better, larger tubes, bigger lugs, so it must be better right? Wrong. The M10 served that purpose and early reviews seem to point that out. There's a reason Colnago will continue to produce the C59 through 2016 and that is not just because they have a lot of tubes remaining, it's because it is one of the last truly balanced, special rides they offer.

Colnago had to make something new to stay in a level playing field and the C60 is a phenomenal design. It is completely made in Italy now, where the C59 tubes were sourced from Toray in Japan, the lugs made in Italy and the paint, depending if it was painted or just a spray and decal job like my MTBK model while the assembly took place in Italy.

To the OP, I think you should get a S-Works Tarmac SL5 and enjoy it now, rather then wait till possibly September for a C60.

Anyone else with more opinion than experience need not respond. Not trying to be mean but anyone can make a random assessment without anything to back it up. I've ridden a lot of bikes and there's a reason these two are in my stable. I could have whatever I wanted, I chose these two for a reason.

HTH


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## Notvintage (May 19, 2013)

carbonLORD said:


> My Venge rides like a E49 M3 with a roll cage and upgraded sway bar, which is why it is my choice for Crit races.


You mean E46.


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## carbonLORD (Aug 2, 2004)

Notvintage said:


> You mean E46.


Yes, yes I did. Thanks for the catch.


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## charlox5 (Jan 31, 2011)

Devastazione said:


> Still,I've never ever rode a Colnago or a De Rosa but I would love to.


Someone correct me if i'm wrong, but my perception of this issue is that Italian Steel is something special. Even to some extent, i'm sure the aluminum bikes were amazing for their time. But I feel like enough of the Italian touch is lost with respect to current manufacturing trends such that a carbon Colnago or De Rosa is like most other Carbon bikes, but with a romantic label slapped onto it. 

I dunno, I buy into the romantic notion that Ernesto or any of the other renowned steel frame builders were sorcerers with Columbus tubing and lugs--but that's world's away from designing frames in solidworks and spec'ing it to a factory in Taiwan. Nothing against Taiwan, either.


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## charlox5 (Jan 31, 2011)

froze said:


> I agree too, the Italians have great designers too, look at their car designs, but having owned Fiats and Alfa Romeos over the years they were mostly junk, the Alfa wasn't too bad but in light of American, German, and Japanese cars they were not up to those standards, but they did look good when they were sitting on the side of the road waiting a tow. I haven't owned a Italian car since the 80's so maybe they've improved their quality but so far with the new offering of Fiat in America I've been hearing their trouble prone, so maybe not.


It's always the electrical design that is the scariest with Italian (and British) cars.


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## Notvintage (May 19, 2013)

I only noticed as I have one. Nice 'Nago BTW. I may get a 2014 C59 as I'm not too jazzed about the changes on the C60. The dropouts? Yes. . The others I don't get.


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## carbonLORD (Aug 2, 2004)

I get the reasons but it could have been addressed on a new M10, which I guess is called the M10s now but still...

And I would have appreciated a BB30 on the C60, but things like the proprietary BB fittings just seem like trouble IMO.

Awesome you have a E46. I'm an old Audi fan but had plenty of friends at the track with enough toys that I could make the comparison to our bikes.

I think getting a C59 now trumps being the first kid on the block after season possibly and who knows what else they might update after this first run.

If it's all that and then some, I'll get one, but for now I have no intentions on updating my stable, aside of a new set of 303's and some new bits for my existing rigs.

Keep the rubber side down.


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## Trek_5200 (Apr 21, 2013)

carbonLORD said:


> There's a ton of things that bother me about this thread. I'll elaborate some...
> 
> If you are riding a M10, CLX etc, it's not a C59 so your "My Colnago rides just like every other carbon bike" is not a valid statement.
> 
> ...


couple of points...
first whether they source the carbon from japan or italy really makes no difference. 
second agree 100% about people who rode monocoue colnago frames making qualitiative statements about lugged made in italy colnagos; its like dismissing caddillac based on the cimmaron.
third agree on stiffness comments. sounds like colngo decided to make a check mark on that item, so went stiffer bottom bracket and down tube , joining the crowd in the process. problem is the c60 will never be as stiff as monocoque frame. second problem is that stiffness was not seen as a limiting factor in the bikes performance and i don't recall experiencing or reading about a flex issue.
colnago has to make better models every few years. they can't say we're perfect and be done with it. i'll reserve final judgment for that time when i get to try out the frame, but for now, i find my c-59 a dream bike. if there's a limit to that bike, it's not the frame but the engine, so this summer i'm working on beefing that up.


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## carbonLORD (Aug 2, 2004)

I was simply pointing out that it is now a completely made in Italy bike, for the poster who made assumptions otherwise while comparing the previous model, our C59 which was not entirely made in Italy per se.

Otherwise I agree with you 100% and find no shortcomings to our C59 that would compel me to "upgrade" for the sake of having the latest new thing.


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## froze (Sep 15, 2002)

charlox5 said:


> It's always the electrical design that is the scariest with Italian (and British) cars.


 Electrical was indeed an issue especially with British and their Lucas (Prince of Darkness) systems, but since we're discussing Italian, Alfa's had considerable issues placing them consistently in the bottom 10 of all car manufactures for problems. There was a reason Fiat and Alfa left American shores...because their sales plummeted due to reliability issues, however their trying to make a come back and hopefully this time they will be a better car because the cars look damn hot.


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## Notvintage (May 19, 2013)

carbonLORD said:


> I think getting a C59 now trumps being the first kid on the block after season possibly and who knows what else they might update after this first run.


I'm just glad they made a frame mechanical/electrical compatible in the 2014 C59. For example, I'm a believer in Time, and have used their pedals for over 20 years, but they are too stupid to make a frame that's compatible with both drivetrains?? That is absolutely essential now, as like it or not, many of us (even Luddites) will have to decide to go electric or not soon enough. It's nice it have the option.


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## Devastazione (Dec 8, 2011)

Ok I've seen the very first C60 delivered to my LBS this moring,the owner was there too and was absolutely enthusiastic about the bike. He was coming from an alu frame tho. From what you read around italian forums it seems that everyone agrees on this : the bike feels like is travelling on rails,amazingly confident on the downhills and superbly comfortable. They also say it may not be a bike you would understand or embrace as a concept from the very first ride,it's a bike that requires a break in period and fine tune adjustments. Once that is done there is no more looking at other brands...
What can I say...the bike squared tubing lookg a bid odd to me as I'm way to used to Specialized's and Cannondale's round and muscular tubing. Graphics were a total disgrace to me. The bike was a sort of black but not deep black,matte for a 95% but I could see some sort remote "shine" from from the paint. Decorations were the worst part : the italian flag spreaded here an there between fork,top tube and chainstay. I just can't have a pizza on my bike,period.....
Needless to say the finish is just superb,the bike looks and feels solid, a funny contrast with the weight when you lift it up. 
Ok I'm gonna wait what those "generic" suckers at Specialized will come out with with the final paint options and price list for their 2015 Tarmac for the italian market and then I'll decide.


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## mjduct (Jun 1, 2013)

theres no Panache riding a trek or specialized...


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## Devastazione (Dec 8, 2011)

mjduct said:


> theres no Panache riding a trek or specialized...


It could be,but I still don't know. The same concept may apply to mountainbiking,you have no idea how miserable are most of the European brands mountainbikes and what an out of this world experience is to ride an american mtb frame in comparison. 
I guess it all comes down to the fun part of the experience : as of down through history Europeans and mostly italians have looked at the serious part of the thing while americans are an happy go lucky bunch of folks. Only americans could have come out with a mountainbike idea. I still remember this old fart guy sitting on his C59 few years ago that saw me riding along with my Specialized mtb,he just called is old fart mates and said " oh,guarda quel rampichino guarda..." wich is " you guys,check out that "rampichino"... ( the very first name the mtb was labeled with here in Italy was rampichino...wich translates sort of " that pointless little thing made just for climbing" ) Of course he was being very sarcastic. An old fart purist and snotty biker. Poor idiot.


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## colnagoG60 (Jun 27, 2013)

Hiro11 said:


> ...Lugged tubing seems like "form over function" to me and the "Master" shaping has always been marketing hype....


Is that really true? My circa 1980's Super bent so much while climbing out of the saddle that the downtube shifters shifted on their own...experienced similar flex on late 90's Super. However my late 90's Master has significantly less flex, even now, at 30lbs heavier than when riding the Supers.


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## BikeLayne (Apr 4, 2014)

I do not want either of those bikes but if pressed I would go with the Colnago as the Specialized products I have bought have not worked out very well for me. I like the way the Colgango looks more or less. Not sure about those thick lugs. However I do not want another bike as I like the one I have.


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## Henry Chinaski (Feb 3, 2004)

Hiro11 said:


> 25 years ago there were lots of other Italian brands that were just as prestigious (De Rosa, Pinarello, Tomassini, Rossin, Basso, Ciocc etc). Lots of these are still around, but Colnago seems to have been most successful in creating a cult image around their brand (with the possible exception of Pinarello).


The reason is racing. The OCLV had been out several years and sales were flat or even declining until Lance came back from cancer and started winning races on it. Colnago has been more consistent in racing than those other brands. 

Anyway, if you're racing at a level where it truly matters, you get your stuff for free and probably don't have much choice what you ride. The rest of us are poseurs. Get what you like. If you can afford to spend more for heritage and help offset Colnago's marketing expenses, go for it. But I don't think anyone here will argue that a Colnago is much "better" than anything else out there. Most of the carbon stuff seems pretty gimmicky and flavor of the month to me.


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## Henry Chinaski (Feb 3, 2004)

colnagoG60 said:


> Is that really true? My circa 1980's Super bent so much while climbing out of the saddle that the downtube shifters shifted on their own...experienced similar flex on late 90's Super. However my late 90's Master has significantly less flex, even now, at 30lbs heavier than when riding the Supers.


Tubing has gotten better over the years


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## Devastazione (Dec 8, 2011)

Yeah....got my cookie cutter Tarmac sworks in the end. And waiting for a Diverge too..

So how is the bike in the end ? Pretty meh if I have to say. It sucks at climbing,it's great at descending and just momentum speeding,the front end is disconnected from the rear end and it's comfy as a Lazy Boy. It's a specialized...


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## BCSaltchucker (Jul 20, 2011)

MR_GRUMPY said:


> Back in the 70's and 80's, Nags were the top of the line......along with Bianchi's, made in the "racing department".
> Now, they are just another frame.
> .
> .


that's how I see it too

it's a totally international industry now anyways. just as the pros are all international and heck, the enthusiasts are likewise. I do not look for country of origin at all, only look for value and appeal inherent to the bikes themselves.

my household: one old italian bike made in Italy. two made in america Ti bikes. one Specialized carbon S works - not sure where it is made. A Specilzd FS mtb for the wife. one RIdley carbon for the wife, taiwan of course. a taiwanese alu gravel bike and a alu road bikr for the wife too.

Around here, a lot of folks on Carbon Wilier bikes. And Cervelo too.


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## stevesbike (Jun 3, 2002)

Devastazione said:


> Yeah....got my cookie cutter Tarmac sworks in the end. And waiting for a Diverge too..
> 
> So how is the bike in the end ? Pretty meh if I have to say. It sucks at climbing,it's great at descending and just momentum speeding,the front end is disconnected from the rear end and it's comfy as a Lazy Boy. It's a specialized...


how is it a cookie cutter? Because it's popular? People can bash Specialized all they want, but they put more R&D and pro rider feedback into their bikes than just about any other company.

Seems like Alberto Contador etc. can climb OK on it. Maybe the problem is the engine instead of the bike.


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## Mapei (Feb 3, 2004)

You can number crunch all you want, and yeah it's the legs that ultimately count if you make your living racing, but the bicycle that's best for you, me and the hoi polloi is a matter of individual body type and taste. A buddy of mine recently crashed his Ritte and replaced it with an S-Works. He doesn't like the Spesh nearly as much, no matter how scientifically they claim to design each and every size. My wife enjoys her 'Nag C-59 ever so much more than the Look 585 it replaced. My Bianchi Infinito CV rides infinitely more softly than my sixteen year old aluminum 'Nag...and it weighs about three pounds less..but when I ride down the road on my 'Nago I feel like a king.


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## Trek_5200 (Apr 21, 2013)

3rd year on the C59. The frame and the rider seem to improve with age. I've taken the bike upstate NY, Mallorca and Girona. I have a blast riding it and while I can't point to any magic feature, the bike just works for me, something I don't quite experience on the Trek. Even the firefly which is a great bike and has advantages of its own doesn't compete with the C59 as a pure road bike. The bike descends and climbs well. Maybe one day the rider will improve enough to justify owning the bike.


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## den bakker (Nov 13, 2004)

Mapei said:


> You can number crunch all you want, and yeah it's the legs that ultimately count if you make your living racing, but the bicycle that's best for you, me and the hoi polloi is a matter of individual body type and taste. A buddy of mine recently crashed his Ritte and replaced it with an S-Works. He doesn't like the Spesh nearly as much, no matter how scientifically they claim to design each and every size. My wife enjoys her 'Nag C-59 ever so much more than the Look 585 it replaced. My Bianchi Infinito CV rides infinitely more softly than my sixteen year old aluminum 'Nag...and it weighs about three pounds less..but when I ride down the road on my 'Nago I feel like a king.


infinitely softer? wow that's a lot. that's ever softer than butter whipped for hours, places on air foam and gently used in a low-gravity environment.


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## Mapei (Feb 3, 2004)

den bakker said:


> infinitely softer? wow that's a lot. that's ever softer than butter whipped for hours, places on air foam and gently used in a low-gravity environment.


Yeah, you're right. I just can't seem to remember that hyperbole is a crime in cyberspace. Heinous.


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## den bakker (Nov 13, 2004)

Mapei said:


> Yeah, you're right. I just can't seem to remember that hyperbole is a crime in cyberspace. Heinous.


no worries, talking c0ck is a fine art :thumbsup:


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## Devastazione (Dec 8, 2011)

stevesbike said:


> how is it a cookie cutter? Because it's popular? People can bash Specialized all they want, but they put more R&D and pro rider feedback into their bikes than just about any other company.
> 
> Seems like Alberto Contador etc. can climb OK on it. Maybe the problem is the engine instead of the bike.


By sucks at climbing I mean the bike is quite flexy,it's meant to be like that,flexy and comfy. About legs I'm quite a heavy and powerful rider,so of course climbing is definitely not my thing. Still,if one is after a uber stiff bike the Tarmac is not. I'm not saying is a spaghetti bike like the Roubaix but...


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## stevesbike (Jun 3, 2002)

Devastazione said:


> By sucks at climbing I mean the bike is quite flexy,it's meant to be like that,flexy and comfy. About legs I'm quite a heavy and powerful rider,so of course climbing is definitely not my thing. Still,if one is after a uber stiff bike the Tarmac is not. I'm not saying is a spaghetti bike like the Roubaix but...


Sounds like you're just biased against Specialized. The tarmac is definitely not designed to be flexy, and it's stiffness rivals other top end road frames. Deflection tests show that.


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## Devastazione (Dec 8, 2011)

stevesbike said:


> Sounds like you're just biased against Specialized. The tarmac is definitely not designed to be flexy, and it's stiffness rivals other top end road frames. Deflection tests show that.


with 7 specialized bikes in 5 years,an 8th one due in 2 weeks and two pilgrimage trips to Morgan Hill I would'nt exactly call myself biased against Specialized,is just I can tell what I don't like in their bikes even if I still consider them the best of the best for me ( both by aestetics and fit ). I love my Tarmac,but it's not a perfect bike. Deflections test are like gas mileage test for cars : it's all laboratory/ in house bs,final consumer has the last word and opinion.


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## Trek_5200 (Apr 21, 2013)

A bike is not necessarily the sum of its parts. I don't believe you can point to a secret sauce that makes it work, but you know it when you see and ride it.


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## n2deep (Mar 23, 2014)

The "Master" series frames are drop dead gorgeous. If you can look at that frame and not drool your beyond help!!


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## Devastazione (Dec 8, 2011)

Ok so, 4 years I think it's the appropriate time to update this topic with my new riding/bike shopping experiences.

I've just bought a Colnago C64 and I now understand what kind of garbage,piece of chinese overpriced junk is a Specialized tarmac. Ok,I have enjoyed my 2 years on the tarmac sworks but in the end I've ended up selling it. Honestly ? The bike does not deliver what the marketing hype wants to you to belive. Now,if back in 2014 I would have gone for a C60 instead of a Tarmac I would be probably still riding it. And needless to say,even the Sl6 tarmac owners are starting to ***** about creaking noises and a bike that's more image than anything else.
Well,long live Ernesto.


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## Trek_5200 (Apr 21, 2013)

came to the same conclusion. was looking at a c50 i believe at the time i bought my trek, had i done the colnago i'd still be on it as well. four years on the c59 and still happy. just feels good to ride. looking at a c64 but with colnagos its about evolution not revolution and can't justify the expense. besides a colnago c series is a lifetime bike and i love the threaded bottom bracket

but for what its worth i think specialized produces good bikes, not junk. i just prefer the colnago


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## mackgoo (Mar 2, 2004)

Colnago has made quality product for a long time. That's about it.


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## Cooper1960 (Oct 14, 2010)

Devastazione welcome to the enlightened side. Not so much because you now have a Colnago but because you are capable of embracing what you once hated, and humble enough to admit it. I remember once posting something about my C50 and you sure did bash Colnago as a brand and as a bike, and look at you now. 

I seem to remember you were a soon to be new dad at the time you were bashing Colnago, maybe being a father has softened you up a bit. One of the things that interested me initially in Colnagos was the personal story behind the brand, I like that. A beautiful bike, quality build, superb ride characteristics, and an interesting history. Welcome to the family Devastazione.


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## Devastazione (Dec 8, 2011)

Cooper1960 said:


> Devastazione welcome to the enlightened side. Not so much because you now have a Colnago but because you are capable of embracing what you once hated, and humble enough to admit it. I remember once posting something about my C50 and you sure did bash Colnago as a brand and as a bike, and look at you now.
> 
> I seem to remember you were a soon to be new dad at the time you were bashing Colnago, maybe being a father has softened you up a bit. One of the things that interested me initially in Colnagos was the personal story behind the brand, I like that. A beautiful bike, quality build, superb ride characteristics, and an interesting history. Welcome to the family Devastazione.


Thank you ! Looking forward to build a C59 as a second bike. These things are never enough and they’re all keepers for sure.


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## BelgianHammer (Apr 10, 2012)

I know this is sacrilegious, heck sometimes it still bothers me. What am I doing to this old girl who's been loyal to me for so long?

I mean, this girl (pics below) has been in service to me since 1994. Faithfully. Without second question. Always providing thrills. Always providing smiles.

What more could a man ask?

Long ago, when at the '94 Interbike Show, a friend & I convinced the Colnago team there to sell us two frames off the floor models. I thought it/this couldn't be happening. A dream. Museeuw, Bartoli, Tafi, here I come. I bought a 62" (59cm top tube) Colnago Technos Competition.

The bike was a dream then, at first took me awhile to ride it with anyone around me. Was too afraid they'd scratch it and/or mess it up somehow.

The incredible detail on the bike, the liveliness of the ride, the lugged joints, that chrome!!!, it all was/is just great.


Well, nearly 25 years on now, recently having added another newer bike to my stable of bikes, I have tried to grapple with what to do with this old beauty. Then it hit me: a rain bike (for here in Belgium) where I live. What better place than to see her last days out---if those ever do truly come.

So, put some Raceblades on her, 25mm Rubino Pros, some 32h Ultegra-hub H Plus Sons I built up, Shimano 105 setup, with 50/39 and 13/28 10-speed cassette, along with 2 L&M 300W flashing front lights, and for the rear a 100W Cygolite Hotshot along with a Lezyne Micro Drive.

Since it rains a lot here in Belgium, the bike still sees a lot use over winter. Yeah, I feel guilty as hell that she doesn't see the summer sun anymore, or doesn't see fast group rides & such. The frame was completely coated, when first bought, with two coatings of 'Frame Saver'. So I think I am good to go in that department.

Over the years she's become a little whippy, as in when you go to accelerate and/or stand, that old bottom bracket noticeably sways side-to-side. But, who cares?

Still, there is something about this bike, something magical, something special. And that drop-dead dam# gorgeous frame doesn't hurt matters, for everytime my eyes wonder down to the top tube, with the wind blowing in my hard, I am reminded of it.

This is the "big deal" about Colnago


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## SwiftSolo (Jun 7, 2008)

There's no question that Specialized makes some of the best bikes in the world. Butt ugly, but highly functional. They need to get rid of the 12yo that does their color schemes and move on to the 21st century. I think the money they're saving by using cheap, flat black primer is why they refrain from replacing their juvie color/graphics "designer". 

Colnago makes less technically up-to-date bikes but at least they are not an embarrassment to ride. For the most part they still use real paint. Also, the mountains of your country create a kind of awe that generates huge respect by all who ride there. There is no place in the world I'd rather ride and those old white colnago frames ringed with the colors of your flag make me think of the great times I've had there. 

My 2010 campy record Tarmac s-works sl3 hangs on my den wall as a reminder of a time when specialized built technicaly superior bikes that were also beautiful.


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## factory feel (Nov 27, 2009)

never could comprehend calling a bicycle "she" when talking about it.


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## Notvintage (May 19, 2013)

Colnago has pretty much zero quality control. Check weightweenies forum and you can find busted rear dropouts and other stuff on new C60 models. That and short warranties. The only Italian frame to buy is Sarto.


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## Fredrico (Jun 15, 2002)

factory feel said:


> never could comprehend calling a bicycle "she" when talking about it.


I assign feminine characteristics to the DeRosa because riding it is the next best thing to sex, and its never let me down.  

You have any bikes like that?


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## il sogno (Jul 15, 2002)

Superb ride and handling. I have two of em.


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## Devastazione (Dec 8, 2011)

Notvintage said:


> Colnago has pretty much zero quality control. Check weightweenies forum and you can find busted rear dropouts and other stuff on new C60 models. That and short warranties. The only Italian frame to buy is Sarto.


Yeah I have heard that and honestly that is some frustrating stuff. Maybe they act differently here in Italy ? I don't know and crossing fingers I don't want to know. The thing is when you're riding a 7K and plus Euro worth of bike and something goes wrong because of a manufacturing defect it won't hurt to have a lawyer write a letter on your behalf . Either way Colnago and Giant,especially the latter,are the only two frame manufacturers I've rarely heard of any frame failure..


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## aclinjury (Sep 12, 2011)

Devastazione said:


> Yeah I have heard that and honestly that is some frustrating stuff. Maybe they act differently here in Italy ? I don't know and crossing fingers I don't want to know. The thing is when you're riding a 7K and plus Euro worth of bike and something goes wrong because of a manufacturing defect it won't hurt to have a lawyer write a letter on your behalf . Either way Colnago and Giant,especially the latter,are the only two frame manufacturers I've rarely heard of any frame failure..


plenty of Giant frame failure stories in Asia region, of course that's where a lot Giant are sold more than any other big bike brands. And a friend of mine in the US has his Giant frame replaced twice due to cracks, so he's on his 3rd frame now. His frame is a bigger size one and big frames are also more prone to cracking than smaller ones


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## jaggrin (Feb 18, 2011)

BelgianHammer said:


> I know this is sacrilegious, heck sometimes it still bothers me. What am I doing to this old girl who's been loyal to me for so long?
> 
> I mean, this girl (pics below) has been in service to me since 1994. Faithfully. Without second question. Always providing thrills. Always providing smiles.
> 
> ...


Meh at best and the bar tape is awful


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