# Got $400 -Best way to get first road bike?



## JoePAz (Jul 20, 2012)

So what can I get with $400 cash for first road bike? 

Background
I have been Mountain Biking for years and want to do some occasional road riding as a change of pace. I currently ride 23lbs KHS hardtail with XT component I buiit myself. 

Looking Used craigslist - Frame size- I figure 54 or 56 cm (5'7" height). 

What is the best way to spend that $400? 

BTW... I could buy a used bike and drop another $100 in repair parts (tubes, tires, minor tweaks like stem length etc) if needed, but would not use a shop since I have the tools to do it myself. 


Oh and yeah it would be much better to have $700, but I don't...


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## PJ352 (Dec 5, 2007)

JoePAz said:


> So what can I get with $400 cash for first road bike?
> 
> Background
> I have been Mountain Biking for years and want to do some occasional road riding as a change of pace. I currently ride 23lbs KHS hardtail with XT component I buiit myself.
> ...


Given your budget, background and ability to wrench, I suggest buying used, local. Bikes are bikes, so you'll recognize any mechanical problems with a road bike and staying local gives you the opportunity to test ride a bike (assessing fit) before committing to the purchase.

On the topic of fit, I'd avoid getting too hung up on frame sizes. There's no industry standard for determining them, so (as one example) one brands 47 will be anothers 52. Also, proportions, fitness/ flexibility, riding style/ preferences (among other factors) enter into the equation. 

That said, I don't think it would be worth your time to check out 49cm or 55+cm bikes. Stay in the 50-54cm range and (assuming 'normal' proportions/ 'average' fitness/ flexibilty) look for effective top tubes in the 535mm range - all offered as_ very_ generally speaking.

From my experience re: the used road bike market, the number of offerings (and prices) vary widely by region. In mine, we have 2-3 road bikes offered on CL weekly, if that. In warmer climates/ more populated areas, that number hits CL in hours (or less). Bottom line, you're familiar with your area, so probably know some decent options for finding used bikes in your price range.


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## AndrwSwitch (May 28, 2009)

I was going to say ballpark 52 cm also. This is important because for $400, you're doing used - looking only at the range that PJ mentions will save you some wasted trips. Bear in mind that (again, mentioned above) different brands have different geometry and IMO the nominal size isn't terribly important. It just tends to go with a certain narrower range of cockpit lengths; I think that's the spec that matters.

Get on the phone and call your local shops. I think riding several bikes is a big value-added in buying a bike, and if you have shops that deal in used, they really facilitate this.


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## redcon1 (Jul 22, 2008)

I'd keep checking Craigslist. For that cash you should be able to pick up a decent used Aluminum frame/carbon fork road bike with a decent groupset. It will likely need some TLC.

For reference, I am going to throw up my rain/mud bike for sale in your ballpark price range. It's a 2003 Raleigh competition Aluminum frame/carbon fork, Shimano Ultegra groupset (triple front, 9-speed), Shimano RW-500 wheelset, ITM cockpit. IN 2003 it listed for $1799, I believe, and I was the second owner and put about 3K miles on it. It needs some love and cassette/middle chainring/chain shortly to put it back to good condition. And it has a dent in the top tube where I dropped my SC Blur unhooking from the ceiling. ;-)

Also for reference, I'm about 5'8" and the Raleigh is a 53cm, my newer bike is a 54cm with compact geometry.


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## JoePAz (Jul 20, 2012)

So if I cannot rely on frame size numbers alone can I measure seat to bars and get a reasonable idea of fit?

On my Mountain bike my "reach" Virtual tip tube plus stem is 710 mm and measured seat tip to bars is 597 mm. (23.5). 

should the road bike be longer? or about the same from tip of the seat to the center of the bars? I know I can adjust the stem and seat, but that is fine tuning and I rather not try compensate for a too big/too small of frame.


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## RubyRoad (Sep 14, 2012)

I am new to cycling, but I hope I can help with this link (If the more competent forum members think this is BS, please correct me):
Fit Calculator - Competitive Cyclist
You have to type in a couple of measurements than it gives you an idea about the parameters of the bike that fits you.
When I ordered my bike just a couple of weeks ago I did not have a chance to try it so I ordered based on the results of this fit calculator, and it is very comfortable, although I have nothing to compare...
Good luck finding your bike!


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## JoePAz (Jul 20, 2012)

Best I can tell I need a 540 to 550 mm effective top tube length. This is based on a few different fit calulators and comparing my fit on my mountain bike. So I ran the calcuators to mountain standards and came up with numbers that pretty closely match my mtb. So therefore I think the road calculations will be close as well. 

I also cross checked this with some checking of a Fuji Newest I did at Sport Chalet. I hate to go to a LBS and waste all their time to get a nice fit only to never buy a bike there. Anyway stange thing is those frames there were 59/56/54/52 as printed on them. However the Fuji website says their 2012 X/XL is a 58 cm and M/L = 54 and M=50. Yet I felt best on the 54 M frame as opposed to the 56 M/L. Sheesh... I can't get seem to get the markings on the bike to match the published specs. 

Anwy it looks like if the 54 I sat on was really a 50 then ithave 545 mm effecive top tube which lines right up with what the fit calculators say.... So may be I need a 50 cm bike.... God this is so confusing since these "sizes" are not uniform and I am not sure I can trust the bike owners. I probably will be needing to sit on them first.


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## charlox5 (Jan 31, 2011)

you should be test riding/sitting on these bikes before you buy anyway. but i also agree that a generic frame size from 50-54 is probably about right for someone who's 5'7"

$400 should get you onto a nice, older steel bike.


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## PJ352 (Dec 5, 2007)

OP, as I'm reading through this thread and your subsequent posts, you're doing some things you've been forewarned on, predictably resulting in confusion. Remember no standards for determining frame sizes? Then, added to your confusion by using fit calculators (IMO/E a bad idea, _unless_ the goal IS to confuse yourself) and comparing your fit on a mtn bike, applying it to a road bike.

Don't do that. It's not the same geo nor the same riding position and (along with those calculators) is going to mislead you. I think it already has because IMO you estimating needing too long an ETT, but that's because of both methods you used to 'get there'. 

BTW, one statement you made was spot-on. That being "I rather not try compensate for a too big/too small of frame". That's precisely why you need to get sizing right. So that you don't have to make unnecessary compromises on the fitting. If you do, you'll be _making_ the bike fit, rather than _tweaking_ fit to suite your anatomy.

The way I see it, your best option is to keep the search local, taking the time to look at bikes in the 50-54cm range. That's ball parking and doesn't mean all the bikes will fit. Once you test ride the bike that feels best, I suggest taking it to a reputable LBS to have fit assessed. 

It might cost 'some', but consider it an investment, because (IMO) road riding being new to you, you're going to need some fit assistance with your new bike, so may as well build a relationship with the shop before purchasing.


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## JoePAz (Jul 20, 2012)

Interesting... So short of riding it for 1 hour how do I know what a good fit will feel like. I presume the front bars should be lower on road bike, but should I feel more stretched out? I guess I feel like I will probalby get the wrong fit anyway so best to spend less now and then maybe in a year get a good bike once I know how it is supposed to feel. I guess I have seen some bad stories on fit even by pro shops. There was that one guy who was a little heavy, but go realy jacked up fit from $200 pro fitting. I am 5'7" with longish legs and a shorter torso. Weight is 155. My mountian fit is very XC style fit with the seat higher than bars.

I just saw what looks like nice deal, but I don't know. 

Trek 2300 - 2004 vintage I believe offered at $325









Looks to have carbon front fork and rear stays. Are the rear stays a problem on older bikes like this?Has Ultegra components. I can't tell frame size so other the fit being off is there something I should worry about on this bike?


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## PJ352 (Dec 5, 2007)

Yes, an XC style fit is going to be similar to a road riding position, but because their geo differs, I still wouldn't make direct comparisons relating to fit. As far as what a good fit feels like, it's basically what you _don't_ sense - feeling too cramped/ too stretched out/ positioned too aggressively. 

In short, no areas of discomfort and a general feeling that the bikes fits and feels right. You may not think so, but if sizing is off, you're apt to know it. That's why I suggested buying local - so you could go on these test rides and have the bike checked for fit at your LBS. 

And yes, if you can manage it, that one hour ride out on the roads will tell you more than a 10 minute jaunt around a block or two. You may luck out and find a really well fitting bike, but don't expect it, because even a correctly sized bike won't have been fitted to you (yet). 

This is why I think it would be wise to get a LBS's fit assessment before you purchase. It'll serve to safeguard your interests and I think you'll need some level of fitting assistance, post purchase.

Re:: the Trek, I'd steer clear of it for two reasons. First, it's a mixed materials bike and there have been problems at the points where the alu and CF parts are bonded. Second, paired spoke Bonty's aren't known for their reliability, so without a warranty, if you had problems in either of these areas you'd be on your own with the expense of repair/ replacement. 

In your price range, I'd look for a straight steel/ alu frame.


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## Oxtox (Aug 16, 2006)

at 5' 7", you'll probably end up needing a 54-56 cm frame...that's my ballpark guess...

check your local Craigslist...personally, I'd look for older steel bikes, things like a Centurion Ironman are somewhat common...they're usually in the $200-400 range, depending on condition.

you probably want to avoid ads that list anything as 'vintage'...it's usually a piece of crap that's way over-priced.

and fwiw, I have a 'mixed materials' (carbon tubing / alum lugs) bike from the mid-90s...it's got 50-60K miles on it and I still ride it regularly...nothing wrong with it at all.


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## AndrwSwitch (May 28, 2009)

For me at 5'8", 54s tend to be big.

OP, I split my time between XC mountain biking and road. While I'm not confident enough to make a direct comparison in sizes or cockpit lengths, especially since MTB now has the wide bars and narrow bars camps and it seems to make a difference (and since road frame ETT lengths are on a pretty small increment) I think I can make some qualitative comparisons that may help you.

I hit the same leg extension on my road and mountain bikes.

I have very similar saddle setbacks on my mountain bike and the road bike I use for longer rides and training. A race day setup is a little more different.

I use a little more drop to the bars on my road bike. I don't feel like I put more weight on my hands. In fact, I think that's a sign that something is wrong. However, the fit on my road bike is much more oriented toward where I want things when I'm developing a certain amount of power. The fit on my mountain bike is a compromise between what doesn't hurt me when I'm climbing and what doesn't hurt me in technical sections and on descents. I think I've found a pretty good sweet spot - I can go for several hours at endurance and endurance racing pace without pain. But even racing a mountain bike, there are a lot more periods of not pedaling than on a road bike.

The position of my back is very similar.

The bad news is that the different kinds of handlebars really mess with arm position and a comparison between reach to the hood cruxes and reach to the grips. Pay attention to whether you feel like you have to reach out past where your hands naturally want to fall to get on the hoods, or if you feel like you'd like your hands to be a little further away, and may even be more comfortable putting your palms on the little bulby things on the tops of the shifters. Both of these indicate that the reach is off.

IME, 80 mm is too short for a road stem. I think the real problem is that not enough of the rider's weight ends up on the front wheel, but whatever the root cause, it makes handling feel weird.

While I don't have a good sense of what too long is - at our heights, it's really not an issue for either of us - having to use a 140 mm stem is also not a good sign.


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## JoePAz (Jul 20, 2012)

Thanks. I guess it should feel ok with hands on the hood. Not like a long reach. I will try that.


As for the Trek 2300. I will be taking a look at it. Not sure of the size, but the current rider is 5'8" so pretty close and worth a look. Price is great and the issue is fear. Of composite reay stays. I did some looking and did not find anyone with debonded bike. Does anyone have first hand knowledge?


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## PJ352 (Dec 5, 2007)

JoePAz said:


> Thanks. I guess it should feel ok with hands on the hood. Not like a long reach. I will try that.
> 
> As for the Trek 2300. I will be taking a look at it. Not sure of the size, but the current rider is 5'8" so pretty close and worth a look. Price is great and the issue is fear. Of composite reay stays.* I did some looking and did not find anyone with debonded bike. Does anyone have first hand knowledge?*


There have been a number of posts here and elsewhere (with pics) where the bonds failed between the two materials. It was much more common with the older models (which I would consider this to be) than the newer crop. 

For balance, as Oxtox indicated, they don't all fail, but the purpose of my bringing it up is that (similar to those Bonty's) the have failed often enough to become a known problem. And without a warranty, the repair expense will be yours. 

All things considered, given that CF stays offer zero benefit, I don't see it as being a worthwhile risk. As always, YMMV.

BTW, as far as having firsthand knowledge or experience, I do not. But that also holds true for Gossamer cranksets/ BB's, and I still know_ they_ suck.


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## JoePAz (Jul 20, 2012)

PJ352 said:


> There have been a number of posts here and elsewhere (with pics) where the bonds failed between the two materials. It was much more common with the older models (which I would consider this to be) than the newer crop.


My reseaching this has found issues on the older 90's vintage 2300 where the main tubes were carbon. I have not seen any issues noted with debonding on the 2004 and newer 2300 and 2100's where only the stays are carbon. 

Given my budget needs and plans for the bike I think I will get it if fit seems ok and I don't see any problems with the frame. My thinking is that this a starter bike and if I really get into this road biking deal I will spring for more cash for a more modern bike next year. I just can't see spening $1200 on a bike that I may only ride 5-6 times. I love my mountain bike, but not sure if I will ride a road bike at the same level. Yes there is some risk, but with only $400 to spend....


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## Oxtox (Aug 16, 2006)

more on the bonded CF tubing bikes...

the bike I own (Spec Allez Epic) had some first-generation joint failures reported. the mfg changed the epoxy used and later versions were apparently not subject to the structural issues initially seen.

my bike does have a couple of areas of surface corrosion on the alum lugs. some kind of galvanic reaction. however, I've buffed these out fairly easily and the remaining metal seems to be unaffected.

these bikes are not feather-weights by any means...mine weighs well over 20 lbs. the alum fork is not the best riding one around, but it looks nice.

I really appreciate the 'homage' that this bike pays to older steel lugged bikes...with full DA 7400, I consider mine to be a quasi-classic. I'm sure others would strongly contest that label. it's all good tho...

so, if the Trek appeals to you and provides a decent fit, don't be afraid to consider buying it.


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## PJ352 (Dec 5, 2007)

JoePAz said:


> My reseaching this has found issues on the older 90's vintage 2300 where the main tubes were carbon. I have not seen any issues noted with debonding on the 2004 and newer 2300 and 2100's where only the stays are carbon.
> 
> Given my budget needs and plans for the bike I think I will get it if fit seems ok and I don't see any problems with the frame. My thinking is that this a starter bike and if I really get into this road biking deal I will spring for more cash for a more modern bike next year. I just can't see spening $1200 on a bike that I may only ride 5-6 times. I love my mountain bike, but not sure if I will ride a road bike at the same level. Yes there is some risk, but with only $400 to spend....


Yes, the Trek 2300's (and Spec Allez Epic mentioned) were both known to have bonding problems, but there were others. Jamis being another, as I recall. 

For the record, I'm not suggesting that you spend _more_ on this first bike, I'm suggesting that you stay with straight steel or alu. But that aside, this is your money and I do see your points re: the bike, the cost, your budget and it being a short term 'fix'.

So, go check it out and take it from there. Just don't get so focused on this one bike that you purchase it despite any shortcomings (like fit).

Good luck, and let us know how it goes....


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## AndrwSwitch (May 28, 2009)

I commuted on a mid-'80s Raleigh Technium for a while. These were bikes with aluminum main triangles and steel stays bonded in with a thermal and adhesive process. I always thought that if I ever broke the frame, it would be at the bonds.

As it happened, I did break the frame. Fatigue failure in the dropout. Bonds did fine.

Since I'm talking smack about bike parts I've destroyed, I also threw out a paired-spoke rear wheel earlier this year, after finding cracks in the rim. I weigh 160 lb, probably more like 170 at the time, and I rode that bike as a commuter, so I often had loads, either on my back or in panniers. I also am not shy about powering through bad pavement and riding up and down curbs. After all, I split my time with mountain biking. Still, I do that to other wheels too, and the Bontrager wheel is the first I've had a problem with. At least, without doing something much more extreme. 

Cost of replacement for an aluminum road frame can be as low as $90 if you want it to be. Do your homework - if that vintage of Trek had that problem a lot, it's more of a concern than if just a few bikes ever had it.


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## tednugent (Apr 26, 2010)

competitive cyclist has a good fit calculator you can use as a baseline

from there...perhaps a bike from bikesdirect?

you can get an aluminum frame with carbon fork with Sora components for about $400


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## JoePAz (Jul 20, 2012)

No worries now. 

I had been in contact with owner this morning at 7:30am. I agreed to call meet today at 3:30 since the guy was at work till 2:30. He said he had other people interested. So I called as soon as my 2pm meeting was done at 3pm with cash in hand. Nothing... So waited about 2 miles away for an hour. Then he texts me and says it was already sold. Never even gave me chance to look at it. Pissed off, not that I did not get the bike, but that the guy did not tell me after asking for an hour. 

Anyway... that bike is gone. So no worries about frame bonding.....  The search will continue.


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## JoePAz (Jul 20, 2012)

tednugent said:


> competitive cyclist has a good fit calculator you can use as a baseline
> 
> from there...perhaps a bike from bikesdirect?
> 
> you can get an aluminum frame with carbon fork with Sora components for about $400


I am afraid I won't like the Sora components. I am used to XT stuff on my Mountain bike. I am thinking I need 105 at least. Possibly a newer tiagra.


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## PJ352 (Dec 5, 2007)

JoePAz said:


> Anyway... that bike is gone. So no worries about frame bonding.....  The search will continue.


Sorry that didn't work out for you, but there will be other bikes.

Re: component levels, my advice is to apply some of your previous logic to them. Meaning, this being your first road bike, keep shopping local enabling you to test ride the bikes to assess fit/ feel before committing to the purchase. And keep in mind this bike may well serve as a short term fix to determine what you want in your next (nicer) road bike. 

Save for the thumb tab that's difficult to operate from the drops, Sora functions fine and is durable. Also, because you're looking at older bikes, staying low end on the shifters makes a one for one replacement less costly, in the event you need to replace them. 

As you know, I'd stay with a straight alu or steel frame and focus on getting a comfortable fit. Assuming the chosen bike is in good overall condition, the rest IMO is of secondary importance.


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## AndrwSwitch (May 28, 2009)

JoePAz said:


> I am afraid I won't like the Sora components. I am used to XT stuff on my Mountain bike. I am thinking I need 105 at least. Possibly a newer tiagra.


I don't like Sora very much either, just because of the thumb tab (gone from 2013 models) but I think Tiagra is fine. My 'cross bike just gets Tiagra. Oops. I'm Mr. Edit right now. I wanted to also mention that in terms of function, Sora and 2300 are really already there.

Granted, my MTB is only LX/SLX. But I think people attach way too much of the wrong aspects of performance to the shifters and derailleurs. When I demo high end bikes lately, I'm as likely to miss being on my bike, that I set up for me, as I am to be wowed by whatever whoop-de-doo gadget I'm supposed to be wowed by.

Oh yeah - did you ever get any traction with your local shops? Every city I've lived in has supported at least one that specialized in used bikes. IMO, this is one of the best ways to buy an inexpensive bike - it still has many of the advantages of buying retail.


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## JoePAz (Jul 20, 2012)

Thanks PJ.


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## Big Picture (Aug 29, 2012)

I do not have a lot of experience with road bikes as I have just riding about 6 months ago. I purchased my first new road bike for $500 shipped after riding my vintage Fuji bike for the first few months. I have been very happy with my purchase and from the research I've done it also seems to have very good reviews as an entry level road bike. I chose the GT GTR Series 5 and am putting the link below if you are interested in checking it out. I noticed you live in AZ as do I (Peoria). If you interested and want to check the bike out you are more than welcome to do that. BTW, I have the M size frame and am 5'6" and feel very comfortable with the size.

http://http://www.gtbicycles.com/2013/bikes/road/performance/gtr-series-5


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## MS150Rider66 (Apr 30, 2009)

I'm responding to let you know that a have a Fuji Newest 3.0 2010 model. I bought it used from a Pawn shop in my area. I love the bike and I am 5'8 and mine is 54cm. I already knew I would need to get a smaller stem because total reach top tube and stem is 665mm or 26.1811 in.Way streach ,but mine came with adjustable stem so for the mean time I have it like a 30cm rise.Fuji makes for a longer tubes and in the 50 cm it is 645mm or25.3937 in top tube with the 100mm stem.But I can tell you I love the way she rides and I have been riding a 1986 Schwinn Tempo Columbus Tenax which I also love that sweet steel.But thefork on the Fuji is Carbon and there is a sweet diffrence of smoothness over bumps that soak up real good. There is always someone needing money and they will pawn the good bikes .I see alot at pawn shops.


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## JoePAz (Jul 20, 2012)

Well for right or wrong I got bike yesterday. 

2003 (I believe, but not exactly sure) Trek 5200. I bought it from fellow mountain biker who got it from his brother in law. The PO had replaced the wheels with some Mavic Aksium Race after his shop told him the bontragers got a crack. 

Otherwise the bike looks good and shifts nice. Frame size seems good too. I will be putting some pedals on it this afternoon and taking it out for short ride. Got it for $499 ( I was short a $1 from the agreed price. :blush2. Anyway to me anyway this seems like a good deal as I have read good things about the 5200. 

Lets just hope it all works out... 
Here is a photo.


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## AndrwSwitch (May 28, 2009)

Nice. Looks like a little bike, which, given your height, puts it in the right ballpark for you. I was going to ask if you'd set it up - looks like a taller person set it up to ride very upright - but since there are no pedals on it, I'm guessing not.


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## PJ352 (Dec 5, 2007)

Congrats! Looks pretty nice for the price paid. 

That bar tape reminds me why I always go with black.  

Lastly, my standard advice.. consider getting a bike fit.


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## cobra5514 (Aug 10, 2012)

nice ride.


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## JoePAz (Jul 20, 2012)

Just ordered some Shimano A520 SPD pedals. I will be borrowing my M536's off my mtb for bit until I get the A520's. Seems like a good pedal that will allow me to use my mtb shoes and keep the same muscle memorry to get in and out.


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## JoePAz (Jul 20, 2012)

PJ352 said:


> Congrats! Looks pretty nice for the price paid.
> 
> That bar tape reminds me why I always go with black.
> 
> Lastly, my standard advice.. consider getting a bike fit.


Yeah. Not a fan of the white bar tape, but no used bike is going to be perfect. As for the fit... It is in my mind the only thing that will sour this deal. I did my best to make it work, but I often get buyer's remorse and over think things. Worried now that the fit is not right. :mad2: Still it felt good when I rode it..... Ahh... it is probably all in my head.


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## PJ352 (Dec 5, 2007)

JoePAz said:


> Yeah. Not a fan of the white bar tape, but no used bike is going to be perfect. As for the fit... It is in my mind the only thing that will sour this deal. I did my best to make it work, but I often get buyer's remorse and over think things. Worried now that the fit is not right. :mad2: Still it felt good when I rode it..... Ahh... *it is probably all in my head.*


One way to find out is to opt for that standard fitting. :yesnod:

Re: the bar tape - that's a simple fix. No worries there...


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## vickan240sx (Oct 21, 2012)

I bought a used road bike for pretty cheap on Craigslist; the bike had sora shifters.


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## blakslee720 (Jul 12, 2012)

I would definitly go for craigslist but go over the bike with an eagle eye, no matter what it is or how much you want it. Both my bikes i got there. You can find some pretty amazing deals on their i.e. I found one ad for a 1998 Trek 5200 OCLV asking $600


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## JasonLopez (Aug 19, 2012)

I've never paid more than 500 dollars for a bike, excluding upgrades in the future.

I've never owned a new bicycle.

I have some very, very nice bikes.


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## JoePAz (Jul 20, 2012)

BeetleBailey said:


> Is that one Made in USA ?
> 
> What does it weigh ?
> 
> Thanks !!!


My 2001 Trek 5200 OCLV is made in the usa and comes in at 18.6lbs. Not sure on the1998 version however.


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