# snotty elitist cyclists and under-4 century



## nyvram (Apr 11, 2002)

so i'm going to attempt to hang with the under-4 hour peloton at the sunrise century this weekend in clarksville TN

i asked for some tips on hydration, etc since this is obviously a fast crew and got nothing but grief and hate/sarcasm/derision instead.

this is why so cyclists get labelled as elitist snobs. i like how they know nothing about me..assume i suck..and offer zero useful advice.

i'm done venting.


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## Alaska Mike (Sep 28, 2008)

They made the assumption that anyone that can average over 25MPH for 100 miles should have the fueling/hydration thing pretty much nailed down. Doesn't completely excuse their behavior, but it goes part of the way. If you hang with them for all or at least the vast majority of the ride, they'll probably change their tune- especially if you do your share of the work and don't mess up the pacing.

It's an unfortunate hurdle that some have to overcome to be accepted. I was lucky in that I had a lot of very fast and very encouraging people when I first started racing that were patient and understanding. I try to pass that on to the guys that are in the same place I was. That takes some of the sting out of it when I crush their souls on the road.


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## kbiker3111 (Nov 7, 2006)

Try riding with people who aren't d1cks?


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## asgelle (Apr 21, 2003)

nyvram said:


> i asked for some tips on hydration, etc ...
> 
> i like how they know nothing about me..


You had a conversation with them. You asked a bunch of questions. Maybe they know more about you than you think.


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## OnTheRivet (Sep 3, 2004)

nyvram said:


> so i'm going to attempt to hang with the under-4 hour peloton at the sunrise century this weekend in clarksville TN
> 
> i asked for some tips on hydration, etc since this is obviously a fast crew and got nothing but grief and hate/sarcasm/derision instead.
> 
> ...


People who "race" centuries are pathetic, not elitist.


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## F45 (Nov 25, 2010)

nyvram said:


> i asked for some tips on hydration.


Arrive hydrated. Carry a lot of fluids or arrange to be given some at a feed zone along the way.

What did you expect them to say?


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## Alaska Mike (Sep 28, 2008)

OnTheRivet said:


> People who "race" centuries are pathetic, not elitist.


There are 100 mile races and 100 mile rides. Centuries are generally 100 mile _*rides*_, so I agree completely. If you were competing at Leadville, it would be a different matter.

I did manage a solo sub 4 hour century the other day. It was a metric century, I wasn't pushing it (at all), I did a lot of climbing, and I didn't notice how far I'd gone until I got home.

I'm thinking about having my taint tattooed to commemorate the occasion.


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## nyvram (Apr 11, 2002)

1. this is a century with a group that goes out in front, with full police escort so there's no slowing down or stopping.

2. this escort will also provide basic hydration and food. no stops.

3. you fall off, you're done. you can wait for the regular riders.

4. i asked a question on a local club board, it wasn't a 'discussion'

5. i simply wanted some tips from the ones who have done it successfully (3:43 is course record) in the past regarding how to interact with the vehicles carrying water & energy bars.

sorry i brought it up. jesus y'all are just as bad on here.


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## RRRoubaix (Aug 27, 2008)

Alaska Mike said:


> They made the assumption that anyone that can average over 25MPH for 100 miles should have the fueling/hydration thing pretty much nailed down. Doesn't completely excuse their behavior, but it goes part of the way. If you hang with them for all or at least the vast majority of the ride, they'll probably change their tune- especially if you do your share of the work and don't mess up the pacing.
> 
> It's an unfortunate hurdle that some have to overcome to be accepted. I was lucky in that I had a lot of very fast and very encouraging people when I first started racing that were patient and understanding. I try to pass that on to the guys that are in the same place I was. That takes some of the sting out of it when I crush their souls on the road.


I think I'm with Alaska Mike on this one- if you can average *over* 25mph for 4 hours, you must be pretty good- and, more to the point, experienced.
That is frickin' fast.
OTOH, it's not exactly breaking news that roadies have the "elitist" reputation...
I like the idea of having someone help w/ fluids along the route- your own soigneur!
Good luck on the ride! Kick some elitist roadie butt!! :thumbsup:


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## burgrat (Nov 18, 2005)

I looked at the website and the 100 mile paceline thing sounds pretty unique for a normal century ride, but that would be a pretty cool challenge. Are there no stops at all? (ie bathroom, or "natural breaks") Hopefully the group that goes for the 25+ pace will be somewhat cohesive, work together, and not be too cutthroat. 
As stated above, make sure to show up well-hydrated and be prepared to stay on top of it (hydration and nutrition). 
Good luck. Let us know if you make it under 4 hrs. That would be impressive.


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## nyvram (Apr 11, 2002)

yes its quite a challenge..and unique for sure. its a pretty flat route which is why its billed as the nation's fastest century.

the 25mph challenge is definitely an interesting twist..the peloton sheds riders all the way to the end..so there's a slight chance if you get dropped at 90 miles and the time is well under 4 you might still make it.

the fact the ride organizers talked to police into doing the 'rolling barricade' for stop signs and traffic lights (for the fast peloton) is also very very cool.


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## spade2you (May 12, 2009)

Alaska Mike said:


> There are 100 mile races and 100 mile rides. Centuries are generally 100 mile _*rides*_, so I agree completely.


Agreed. 



nyvram said:


> 1
> sorry i brought it up. jesus y'all are just as bad on here.


Elitist riders vs. sensitive riders. Two wrongs don't make a right.


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## nyvram (Apr 11, 2002)

spade i never said this was a race


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## EDUC8-or (Jan 2, 2009)

Start with 3 bottles and all the food you think you'll need, if the escort/caravan will take your empties that's great, ir not slide them towards the volunteers at the aid stations. Don't throw them because you might take someone out and it will cut down on litter if you do it at the aid stations. Sit in as much as possible and take fluids and food from the escort, it's just reaching out and grabbing bottles and isn't too difficult. Hydrate well the day before and use the restroom several times the morning of.


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## Gatorback (Jul 11, 2009)

Alaska Mike said:


> It's an unfortunate hurdle that some have to overcome to be accepted. I was lucky in that I had a lot of very fast and very encouraging people when I first started racing that were patient and understanding. I try to pass that on to the guys that are in the same place I was. That takes some of the sting out of it when I crush their souls on the road.


I am in Mike's position and feel very lucky to have a few great riders who help me out, give me advice, and teach me. 

I came to cycling in mid-life with a running background and good endurance genetics, so I could immediately hang with most of the experienced cyclists where I ride--some of whom were great to me but others that weren't shy about *****ing at me for my mistakes. I could pedal the bike just as well as them, but had no clue what I was doing in a group and pace lines. Even some of the ones who *****ed at me are now my good friends. I now know and understand some of them have been in bad crashes due to inexperienced cyclists, so they take it seriously when a new rider shows up, jumps in their pace lines, and isn't fully with the program. 

I don't think cyclists are any more elitist than with other stuff in life. There are some really nice and friendly people everywhere, and there are others who aren't so accepting of others initially. Just brush it off, try to learn, and you will be accepted in time. As another person posted, if you hang with those guys--and share the work with them--you will earn their respect.


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## the_gormandizer (May 12, 2006)

Get in a good meal the night before to really top off carbo stores. Breakfast 3 hours before the ride, ~600-700 calories, mainly easy to digest carbs. Also get hydrated with a water bottle, which can count towards your calories depending on what you drink (water vs mix). 

You'll likely need at least four bottles, one per hour, depending on the temperatures. You'll need to replenish ~300 calories every hour starting about half an hour into the ride. What you consume is largely personal preference and somewhat dependent on the heat. The hotter it is the more you'll probably want to drink water and consume easy stuff like gels and blocks. Solid food like bars can be hard to chew, digest, and handle at that speed.

The Hammer website has some good advice, which is of course slanted to using their products. But if you can afford them, products like Perpetuem, Endurolytes, etc. are pretty good.


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## DMH2979 (May 24, 2011)

I agree with much that's been said. I got into cycling and racing when I moved to Boulder, with the not so unfair reputation as elite snobbish cycling capital of the county. I was lucky to have a friend who was a 1 who brought me to group rides etc . . . On those rides, I was schooled by many a pro and cat 1s looking to turn pro (as in, being yelled at, ridden off the back, etc . . .). It was, I'd say, 80% safety thing and 20% ego. If you did something stupid on these rides, someone would take you to the curb as if you crashed them, it could end their career/job. 
Now, many of them are my close friends. 
I find if you show up to a group ride as an unknown quantity, observe the general etiquette (some rides are like races where you can attack, some are ride hard, but no attacks etc . . . ) keep your mouth shut, ride hard but smart, after a few rides people will open up. Just the way it is, and I am fine with that as after the initial coldness, most turn out to be great people


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## nyvram (Apr 11, 2002)

thanks..its interesting i get this response from the club riders..the only emails i got supporting me came from fellow racers who have seen me out and about this season. i have a bit of a reputation as an aggressive/stupid rider and of course the pink 'barbie burgers racing' jersey and bike-doll makes a bit of a splash :lol:

i admit i didn't attempt to explain/justify my fitness to people who don't know me but i simply asked how the rolling sag/hydration support worked and what other people bring with them that have attempted this in the past. i didn't ask them how to clip into my pedals :\


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## Dwayne Barry (Feb 16, 2003)

OnTheRivet said:


> People who "race" centuries are pathetic, not elitist.


I think that depends. When I live in the south there weren't very many races or centuries, and as best as a I could gather lots of competitive cyclists treated the latter as races. To some extent the organizers even treated them as races.


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## Hank Stamper (Sep 9, 2009)

nyvram said:


> 1. this is a century with a group that goes out in front, with full police escort so there's no slowing down or stopping.
> 
> 2. this escort will also provide basic hydration and food. no stops.
> 
> ...


What to heck are you talking about? I don't see any bad comments here so if these guys are 'as bad' as this perhaps they are not the issue.


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## Gearhead65 (Jan 23, 2010)

I'm be rolling out with the regulars tomorrow but still on a fast, probably non-stop pace. I got my 4 hr century in earlier this year at IMS Tour de Cure. From talking to other friends that have done the elite group, at around mile 50-60 they start ferreting out the people that don't share the workload.

Pedialyte the night before and morning to electrolyte load. Good 500-700 cal breakfast with a mix of carbs and fats. NUUN in the water bottles. Enough food in your pockets for 250-300 calories per hour. That's all your body can process during hard efforts. Nibble every half hour. I understand the resupply truck hangs off the back of the group, so if you go back for supplies, expect to work your ass off to reconnect with the pack. Good luck.


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## Gearhead65 (Jan 23, 2010)

Alaska Mike said:


> I'm thinking about having my taint tattooed to commemorate the occasion.


Ooowww......


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## nyvram (Apr 11, 2002)

Gearhead65 said:


> I'm be rolling out with the regulars tomorrow but still on a fast, probably non-stop pace. I got my 4 hr century in earlier this year at IMS Tour de Cure. From talking to other friends that have done the elite group, at around mile 50-60 they start ferreting out the people that don't share the workload.
> 
> Pedialyte the night before and morning to electrolyte load. Good 500-700 cal breakfast with a mix of carbs and fats. NUUN in the water bottles. Enough food in your pockets for 250-300 calories per hour. That's all your body can process during hard efforts. Nibble every half hour. I understand the resupply truck hangs off the back of the group, so if you go back for supplies, expect to work your ass off to reconnect with the pack. Good luck.


thanks!! this advice is invaluable. i plan to really rest the first 30 miles or so and do as short of a pull as the group allows


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## terbennett (Apr 1, 2006)

I've been riding for 24 years and I average 22-23 mph. It's hard for me to understand the elitist mentality of many riders. I've been in two accidents due to inexperienced riders. It's not fun and one time had me hospitalized. Still, it's nothing to be upset about. Even when I ride in the group I know who the new guy is. Everyone does. That group of riders are being a-holes. There is know excuse for that. What they should've been doing is asking questions. However, you asked first. If that was me, I would've been willing to share my knowledge with you. Riders are riders.... Cruisers, fixies, roadies, MTB'ers... we all ride. Some of us have more experience than others. We should be teaching them; not hazing them. We can defend the Elitists all we want but here is a guy that is asking for advice and they want to be "backsides" about it? Dude, find another group to ride with or ride alone. You'll be better off. The fact that someone would have to earn respect on the saddle is elitist idea. You should be getting respect just for being on the saddle.


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## pigpen (Sep 28, 2005)

Sure wish I could ride a century in 4 hours.
Let us know how your ride pans out.


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## Kai Winters (Aug 23, 2009)

If you're going to hang with a bunch that are attempting a sub 4 hour century and you are asking questions about hydration, etc. I'd suspect you are in for a world of hurt and probably failure.
If you think you will be successful in such an attempt I'd expect you to be an experienced cyclist in such an endeavor or similar time trials to know what you will need for your own nutrition and hydration during the event.
Good luck !


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## Oxtox (Aug 16, 2006)

nyvram said:


> i have a bit of a reputation as an aggressive/stupid rider...


huh?

maybe this is why you got ignored.


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## mmoose (Apr 2, 2004)

Hi NYVRAM,
Well, I could tell you what I'd do to prepare. 
If we'd riddent together serveral times, I might have more insight on your riding specifically. 
If I'd done this specific ride before, and someone came to me saying that they could ride X miles in y time, any suggestions...

And they'd likely be three different things. Best bet is to find a mentor on the regular rides around there, cause they will likely have done the ride and can find out more about your abilities. After that, all that some random people across the interwebs will say won't be specific enough.

(and as an attempt to be helpful, here's what I would do...my best 100 this year was a 5:15 solo. I'd try to maintain that (too late...but) and add hard interval work (likely mon/wed night group rides). In that ride, I ate 2 granola bars and went thru about 5 21 oz bottles. That is a bit low on purpose. A sub4 century would be all about performing, so I'd increase caloric and liquid intake. I'd also practice the 'peeing while riding' thing, sounds like you're not going to get a chance to stop for nature breaks.)
Hope that helps, sorry if we seem elitist, maybe more background and specifics could help.


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## terbennett (Apr 1, 2006)

Kai Winters said:


> If you're going to hang with a bunch that are attempting a sub 4 hour century and you are asking questions about hydration, etc. I'd suspect you are in for a world of hurt and probably failure.
> If you think you will be successful in such an attempt I'd expect you to be an experienced cyclist in such an endeavor or similar time trials to know what you will need for your own nutrition and hydration during the event.
> Good luck !


While I do agree with you, sometimes you'll encounter riders that are doing the right thing but they are asking because they want to improve upon their methods. The OP might be doing everything right and the riders could've concluded that he was already doing everything fine. I've told people that to riders before and they performed well without issues. Hopefully, this is the case. If not, it's like you said, he's in for a world of hurt.


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## nyvram (Apr 11, 2002)

terbennett said:


> While I do agree with you, sometimes you'll encounter riders that are doing the right thing but they are asking because they want to improve upon their methods. The OP might be doing everything right and the riders could've concluded that he was already doing everything fine. I've told people that to riders before and they performed well without issues. Hopefully, this is the case. If not, it's like you said, he's in for a world of hurt.


exactly. i've never done this before. not that it matters to my original questions but i've done 26 races this year and i'm strongest in TTs and on flat courses.

i did a test run last week (34 miles) and averaged 21mph by myself on a course that had 1800 feet of climbing. i was going at a brisk pace but certainly not all-out like a TT and felt good at the end.

again, why does my fitness matter either way? i'm asking questions about how the support works and what tips the riders who have done this century before because its my first time.

if someone were asking me, my first response wouldn't be to laugh them off...i'd actually assume they wanted to know how it works and offer helpful advice instead of telling them they can't handle it.

but thats just me :shrugs:


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## nyvram (Apr 11, 2002)

Kai Winters said:


> If you're going to hang with a bunch that are attempting a sub 4 hour century and you are asking questions about hydration, etc. I'd suspect you are in for a world of hurt and probably failure.


that wasn't what i was asking..did u read what i said about the support vehicles that ride along and provide hydration during the ride? 

nobody reads anymore.


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## dave2pvd (Oct 15, 2007)

OnTheRivet said:


> People who "race" centuries are pathetic, not elitist.


Thank you.

I don't know about centuries in your part of the country, but where I live there are 2 that always attract elite riders to see if the 4hr mark can be beaten.

It's a tradition in some parts. Get over yourself.


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## BTSyndrome (Jul 21, 2008)

nyvram said:


> that wasn't what i was asking..did u read what i said about the support vehicles that ride along and provide hydration during the ride?
> 
> nobody reads anymore.


It sounds like you can handle the effort part...

Just put them all in there place......
Show up in the lounge Vegas kit (or jorts) wearing a camelback with enough fluids for the entire 100 miles, 
constantly asking every 10ish mins how many miles till it's over, while never taking a pull. 
Then sprint around for the WIN!!


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## pretender (Sep 18, 2007)

If the weather weren't too hot, a camelbak would be a great idea. Figure roughly 24oz per hour, a small camelbak covers 2 hrs and 2 bottles 2 hrs. 

You'd have to take a little joking around from the fashion police, of course.


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## speed metal (Feb 8, 2007)

There is snotty elitist in every sport. I've been cussed in mountain bike races, motocross races and road races. I don't pay any attention to it. 
A friend and I discussed this a while back I think some riders are easier irritated because the body and mind is under stress due to the exertion being put out. I think we all are more irritable when we are stressed.


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## dave2pvd (Oct 15, 2007)

I can tell you the typical set-up for the ones near me are: 4 big bottles. 2 in cages, 2 in pockets. Occasionally, you'll see the saddle-mounted cages deployed.

There's always a pee-stop. The elders make the call for when we stop.

A big breakfast, 3 Clif bars, some Clif Shots, 2 Clif Bloks. Sounds like a commercial, I know.

The bottles are 2x water and 2x Powerbar - watered down.


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## BassNBrew (Aug 4, 2008)

OnTheRivet said:


> People who "race" centuries are pathetic, not elitist.


Come tell that to the Cat 1s who race the Mt Mitchell or BS&G centuries. There aren't alot of mountain road races so when an event with closed intersections comes up, the best come out to compete.


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## nyvram (Apr 11, 2002)

BTSyndrome said:


> constantly asking every 10ish mins how many miles till it's over, while never taking a pull.
> Then sprint around for the WIN!!


 :lol:

wouldn't every 5 miles be more effective?


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## Terex (Jan 3, 2005)

Stay in the drops, or if on the hoods, keep forearms parallel to minimize wind resistance the whole ride.

The feeding tips posted are good. And remember, you're only going to be on the bike for 4 hrs.....

(Electroloading with Pedialyte, eh?? Hadn't thought of that. The grand kids will never miss it...)


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## atpjunkie (Mar 23, 2002)

*stay in the front 3rd*



nyvram said:


> yes its quite a challenge..and unique for sure. its a pretty flat route which is why its billed as the nation's fastest century.
> 
> the 25mph challenge is definitely an interesting twist..the peloton sheds riders all the way to the end..so there's a slight chance if you get dropped at 90 miles and the time is well under 4 you might still make it.
> 
> the fact the ride organizers talked to police into doing the 'rolling barricade' for stop signs and traffic lights (for the fast peloton) is also very very cool.


close enough to not get spit but not so close you'll take too many pulls
have a gel every 40-45 minutes. Have a bar every 90. Have 1 water bottle H20 1 with a sport drink. Keep them filled however you can. Don't wait to eat/drink. If you have a large number of strong riders you can easily suck wheel @ 25 mph for 4 hrs. My ride tomorrow isn't a century but the pace rarely drops below 26 and is usually in the 28-32 mph range.
If you take a pull, don't stay so long you get gasses and blown out the back


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## EMB145 Driver (Aug 17, 2006)

nyvram,

I know several of those guys in the elite peloton. They are all good folks and all take this ride very seriously as one of their A type events of the year. As you know it's not your average century at the front end, as no one is there to just ride 100 miles, they are there to attempt to set a record.

Here's an article from the record setting 2008. http://davidavery.wordpress.com/200...side-the-elite-peloton-–-september-20th-2008/ I know one guy in the picture, he rarely races but is one of the fastest guys around. One of the other guys in the picture was on the 1996 US Olympic Cycling team, and he rides it every year. Elitist, perhaps. Elite, definitely.


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## nyvram (Apr 11, 2002)

no it wasn't those guys..emb..in fact the guys who rode it today were AWESOME. it was others (non racers) who kept telling me i couldn't do it and it was dumb to try and i had no business doing it.

oh well..i finished with the front group! one of your teammates was pulling the whole time it seemed like..i did my share of work until the last 20 miles or so when i simply had nothing left in the tnak.

3:51!

Bike Ride Profile | Sunrise Century near Clarksville | Times and Records | Strava


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## EMB145 Driver (Aug 17, 2006)

nyvram said:


> no it wasn't those guys..emb..in fact the guys who rode it today were AWESOME. it was others (non racers) who kept telling me i couldn't do it and it was dumb to try and i had no business doing it.
> 
> oh well..i finished with the front group! one of your teammates was pulling the whole time it seemed like..i did my share of work until the last 20 miles or so when i simply had nothing left in the tnak.
> 
> ...


Very Nice!!! I'm not sure who went out to ride it today, but I'm sure I'll hear about it.


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## nyvram (Apr 11, 2002)

I'll email you who was in the final group (at least the ones I knew)..not sure they'd want their names on here.

a CHICK finished with us!!! she was a BAD-ASS.


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## jmitro (Jun 29, 2011)

congrats, that's amazing.


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## atpjunkie (Mar 23, 2002)

*I did a pretty hilly century*



pigpen said:


> Sure wish I could ride a century in 4 hours.
> Let us know how your ride pans out.


in sub 5 hrs. The final 35 miles were slight descending and flat with a tailwind

we covered that 35 in just over an hour


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## OnTheRivet (Sep 3, 2004)

BassNBrew said:


> Come tell that to the Cat 1s who race the Mt Mitchell or BS&G centuries. There aren't alot of mountain road races so when an event with closed intersections comes up, the best come out to compete.


Nothing wrong with going hard, but when people start getting serious about something that is essentially a "fun" ride, it's too much. Also most centuries don't have closed roads so "racing" it is dangerous and so full of variables (Stop lights, trains etc) that your time doesn't mean much. Want to get serious, sack up, pin a number on and get beat by people who know your racing.


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## Taco Brown (Dec 1, 2010)

> They made the assumption that anyone that can average over 25MPH for 100 miles should have the fueling/hydration thing pretty much nailed down. Doesn't completely excuse their behavior, but it goes part of the way.


It doesn't even go 1% of the way. These people are dicks period and part of the reason I don't like this sport. I mean I love to ride, but I don't like a lot of the people who ride for this very reason. If someone asks you a training question on a message board, you should either answer it or shut up (assuming of course that its not an obvious troll post).


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## Terex (Jan 3, 2005)

Congrats! Great experience for you. I've done a sub-5 hr. century with lots of intersection stops. Last 50 we were hauling. We ended up with about 12 riders, shedding 30-40 after a slow first 50. I started cramping severely at about 90, and totally sucked wheels to the end.

I'd like to try for a sub-4 some day. 

Very cool.


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## nyvram (Apr 11, 2002)

OnTheRivet said:


> Also most centuries don't have closed roads so "racing" it is dangerous and so full of variables (Stop lights, trains etc) that your time doesn't mean much. Want to get serious, sack up, pin a number on and get beat by people who know your racing.


wait..what? out of the 26 races i've done this season, ZERO road races had closed roads. the only races with closed roads were the parking lot crits at titans stadium and the giant crit in chattanooga last sat night.

i had better support (rolling roadblocks) for this century than any of the road races i've done.


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## IcemanYVR (Jul 27, 2006)

nyvram said:


> no it wasn't those guys..emb..in fact the guys who rode it today were AWESOME. it was others (non racers) who kept telling me i couldn't do it and it was dumb to try and i had no business doing it.
> 
> oh well..i finished with the front group! one of your teammates was pulling the whole time it seemed like..i did my share of work until the last 20 miles or so when i simply had nothing left in the tnak.
> 
> ...


Congrats on the effort  Would you say someone who could avg 21mph for 60 miles or so solo over a rolling course would have a chance to stick with the group?


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## nyvram (Apr 11, 2002)

ice..absolutely. this was a mostly flat course with some slight rollers (that got a little worse as the day wore on) but i think with that kind of stamina you would have no problem.

forget going out and riding at 25mph for 10 minutes and deciding thats too hard. its not about that. its really about effective drafting, handling surges and staying up front. i posted a full ride report on the main forum so i won't go into all of that again.


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## OnTheRivet (Sep 3, 2004)

nyvram said:


> wait..what? out of the 26 races i've done this season, ZERO road races had closed roads. the only races with closed roads were the parking lot crits at titans stadium and the giant crit in chattanooga last sat night.
> 
> i had better support (rolling roadblocks) for this century than any of the road races i've done.


Wait..what? You've supposedly done 26 races this year and you're asking people for nutrition advice?


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## nyvram (Apr 11, 2002)

rivet, you're an ass and you lack reading comprehension.


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## OnTheRivet (Sep 3, 2004)

nyvram said:


> rivet, you're an ass


Thanks, considering the source I take that as a compliment.


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## nyvram (Apr 11, 2002)

wow, so your contributions to this thread:
1. put down people who ride competitively in centuries
2. put down the person who tried to explain that some people use centuries to train or try to go under 4 hours
3. claim 'real races have closed roads' and mock people riding competitively in centuries again
4. mis-represent what i was saying and then sarastically call into question the races i've done.

well done


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## Gearhead65 (Jan 23, 2010)

nyvram said:


> I'll email you who was in the final group (at least the ones I knew)..not sure they'd want their names on here.
> 
> a CHICK finished with us!!! she was a BAD-ASS.


Congrats Nyvram. Was a good ride. I started out with 'the best of the rest' and managed a 4:22. Was still a good competitive group.

5 of my friends were in the elite. 3 had Guitar Lab jerseys on. 2 finished with you, 2 got popped in the turns in Guthriie around 87, and 1 got popped with a mile to go with cramps on that hill.

sure got hot. Another incentive to finish fast.


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## nyvram (Apr 11, 2002)

Gearhead65 said:


> Congrats Nyvram. Was a good ride. I started out with 'the best of the rest' and managed a 4:22. Was still a good competitive group.
> 
> 5 of my friends were in the elite. 3 had Guitar Lab jerseys on. 2 finished with you, 2 got popped in the turns in Guthriie around 87, and 1 got popped with a mile to go with cramps on that hill.
> 
> sure got hot. Another incentive to finish fast.


it was ridiculolusly hot by the end..even at 9:35. i thought i was going to have a heat stroke in the parking lot at the end. i pounded 2 20oz coconut waters in about 45 seconds.

guitar lab dudes were awesome!!! i thought they all were there at the end..they did more than their fair share of pulling. ask them about the 'barbie burgers' guy..i was in the pink/white jersey. not hard to spot LOL. i hope they don't reply "that ass never pulled once" ;-)

yep 1-2 SVMIC riders, a harpeth bikes guy, treehouse/sonic guy (my buddy), the cat1 woman from Krystal, a FGS guy wearing REGULAR glasses, a guy in a blue jersey that said "MILDMAN" or "WILDMAN"..i couldn't tell..he was great to draft off..hmm, can't remember who else was there...plus there was about 8-10 chasing behind us 1-2 minutes back.

in fact..ask your buddy if he's the one who pulled me into the parking lot at the end, when the group sprinted towards the parking lot he came charging up after them and i rode his wheel in...pretty sure it was a guitar dude.


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## TWB8s (Sep 18, 2003)

Alaska Mike said:


> They made the assumption that anyone that can average over 25MPH for 100 miles should have the fueling/hydration thing pretty much nailed down. Doesn't completely excuse their behavior, but it goes part of the way. If you hang with them for all or at least the vast majority of the ride, they'll probably change their tune- especially if you do your share of the work and don't mess up the pacing.
> 
> It's an unfortunate hurdle that some have to overcome to be accepted. I was lucky in that I had a lot of very fast and very encouraging people when I first started racing that were patient and understanding. I try to pass that on to the guys that are in the same place I was. That takes some of the sting out of it when I crush their souls on the road.



All this ^^^


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## trobriand (Apr 2, 2009)

I love that this thread complains about elitists, but your ride report has a lot of elitism against triathletes, guys trying to hang on to the back, and the groups going a shorter distance.


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## nyvram (Apr 11, 2002)

we're trying to accomplish a goal; under-4 hours. this is clearly defined in the ride rules for the 'elite' peloton. there's plenty of opportunity for those who don't want to work to accomplish this goal to start with the main group later in the morning.

how is that elitist?


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## trobriand (Apr 2, 2009)

Trying to ride with faster groups is one of the best motivators for pushing yourself and to learn things. 

It's pretty funny that you were complaining about the group not accepting you with open arms and skepticism on your ability to ride in the pack, but now you are using "we" as you judge others trying to ride in the "elite" group.


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## jmitro (Jun 29, 2011)

keen observation.

without taking anything away from your amazing accomplishment, it is a bit disappointing to see how other groups were systematically categorized as wannabe's and (at least according to your post) discarded efficiently. I'm not a triathlete at all and not defending them, but it seems a bit unfair to characterize them all the same.

cheers nonetheless, that's an awesome ride.


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## T0mi (Mar 2, 2011)

OnTheRivet said:


> People who "race" centuries are pathetic, not elitist.


Where did the op said they were racing ?

I did a 190km cyclosportive in may (tour of the Lake of Geneva) with my fixed gear bicycle and we did it in 4h30m (40kph ~ 25mph). I was not racing, just doing it the best I could do like most people. The pace was steady and there was no attack or break attempts. I would have been trashed in a race as I have done 0 competitive miles in 10 years and I haven't done any specific training.


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## sand101 (Mar 29, 2009)

nyvram said:


> no it wasn't those guys..emb..in fact the guys who rode it today were AWESOME. it was others (non racers) who kept telling me i couldn't do it and it was dumb to try and i had no business doing it.
> 
> oh well..i finished with the front group! one of your teammates was pulling the whole time it seemed like..i did my share of work until the last 20 miles or so when i simply had nothing left in the tnak.
> 
> ...


330w average for 4 hours? Good God, man. That's off the charts.


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## spade2you (May 12, 2009)

sand101 said:


> 330w average for 4 hours? Good God, man. That's off the charts.


Wattage calculation by Strava as a solo ride.


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## nyvram (Apr 11, 2002)

spade2you said:


> Wattage calculation by Strava as a solo ride.


what spade said. these 'wattage estimators' are terrible inaccurate.

as for talking about the under-4 "ride", there are rules about how this works and what is expected of the people going out in that crew. again, how is this elitist? i simply pointed out that those who chose to jump in without educating themselves on how the group dynamics work naturally found themselves left behind on the road.

if that's elitist, then i guess you better blame the rotary club who sponsored this, established the rules and provided the rolling roadblocks, police escorts and sag support.

i got nothing against triathletes..but they could have chosen to ride a normal bike and follow the same guidelines the rest of us did or get out and ride with the normal group that went out later in the morning.

why is this so hard to understand?


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## spade2you (May 12, 2009)

There's the aspect of tri bikes not being welcome on group rides, but someone training for an IM and spending that much time on their tri bike is probably ok to sit in. I wouldn't want them coming up front and taking pulls, but I see no harm with someone who can handle their tri bike. I wouldn't want to be on my TT bike for more than a 40k, but that's just me.....


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## sand101 (Mar 29, 2009)

spade2you said:


> Wattage calculation by Strava as a solo ride.


That makes sense. Everyone that I know that uses Strava has a PM, so I haven't seen estimated power before. Still bloody impressive.

My latest TT effort was 50 watts less than what this ride was estimated at and more than 3 hours shorter.


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## Jetmugg (Sep 22, 2010)

Back to the original question - how did the "rolling" refueling work? Was it realistic to expect to get a fresh water bottle or powerbar from the rolling support crew as described on the website? Or were you 100% self-supported only by the stuff you carried with you at the starting line? The concept of the rolling support vehicles sounds great, but does it really play out well on the road?


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## nyvram (Apr 11, 2002)

- i never saw the 'mobile support' until about mile 60 (i posted a ride summary somewhere on this site that discusses this a little if you hvaen't seen it)..i'm guessing i was too close to the front for him to get to me. i think they were following behind our group and i was too scared to get too far away from the front guys.

- once we got whittled down to about 25 riders i noticed some guys holding out their bottles which was my first indication relief was nearby. a van drove up on the wrong side of the road with the nicest older gentlemen/rotary club volunteers..since the motorcycles were keeping the roads clear, he was able to drive up for a couple of minutes and collect our bottles.

- 3 of us held up bottles..he drove up..collected them..then disappeared back behind us. about a minute later he pulls back up holding all 3 in one hand out the window..we had to kinda shuck and jive a bit to get our correct bottles. while he was there i took a regular bottle from him as well (*TAKE ADVANTAGE OF THE OPPORTUNITY!!!*!) in case you don't see them again.

- i did not try to get food..i still had another 2 shotbloks just in case

i lost my FULL 24oz camelback about 20miles in going over rough train tracks so i was very happy to see the water support.

*TIP* at 25-30 mph, hitting train tracks will more than likely knock a bottle loose off your frame..*ESPECIALLY IF YOU ARE CARRYING BIG-OL' 24 OZ BOTTLES.*.which you probably will...either make sure they're in place before hitting the tracks or grab the FULL one and stick it in/under your jersey temporarily before you cross the tracks. i wasn't the only one losing bottles...to cramp up or not finish because you lost half your water at a train crossing would suck.


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## Jetmugg (Sep 22, 2010)

Looking at your ride data - 160 bpm and 89 rpm cadence for 4 hrs is an indication of a very strong ride. I'll look for the full ride report here on the forum. I read that the 333 watts is a computer estimate based on a solo ride. When I first saw the 333 watts, I thought that maybe you were Fabian Cancellara. 
The 24 OZ camelback sounds like a good idea - how did you lose it? We are talking about the backpack style camelback, right? 
Did you race any 40K TT's this year, and if so, how did you perform in them? I'm starting to think that with a full year to train, I might be able to get close to this level of performance. Sorry for all the questions, but I'm getting a little jazzed just thinking about a fast group century.

Steve M.


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## nyvram (Apr 11, 2002)

1. throw out the power. its not remotely accurate. my racer buddy did ride with a powertap and he's about my size (195lbs) and said he averaged around 250w for the whole ride if that helps at all.

2. one 40k tt under my belt...ive got the gps uploaded for it as well..i wanna say i averaged 24 mph (there was a nasty climb that i had to get in small ring) and my HR was higher..i hit 192 at the end which i haven't hit before or since.

3. camelback BOTTLE i should clarify..its just camelback brand with the nifty top that makes drinking the water easier

4. i had a mix of racing this season (26 races) and endurace (long hard club rides early in the year) which prepared me. i think you need both to handle the surges and survive 100 miles.

5. not to start the debate again..but i'm low-carbing it..aside from the shotblocks i gobbled on the road..my only nutrition was steak, chicken and eggs & sausage about 2 hours before the ride.


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## BassNBrew (Aug 4, 2008)

OnTheRivet said:


> Nothing wrong with going hard, but when people start getting serious about something that is essentially a "fun" ride, it's too much. Also most centuries don't have closed roads so "racing" it is dangerous and so full of variables (Stop lights, trains etc) that your time doesn't mean much. Want to get serious, sack up, pin a number on and get beat by people who know your racing.


Will do, as soon as the local race organizers sack up and put together a 100 mile road race with 12,000 ft of climbing that doesn't represent a NASCAR race on roids.


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## EDUC8-or (Jan 2, 2009)

nyvram said:


> *TIP* at 25-30 mph, hitting train tracks will more than likely knock a bottle loose off your frame..*ESPECIALLY IF YOU ARE CARRYING BIG-OL' 24 OZ BOTTLES.*.which you probably will...either make sure they're in place before hitting the tracks or grab the FULL one and stick it in/under your jersey temporarily before you cross the tracks. i wasn't the only one losing bottles...to cramp up or not finish because you lost half your water at a train crossing would suck.


I did El Tour de Tucson last year and the roads out there are horrible plus there are 2 river crossings which are more like riding through bumpy and rutted sand, I probably saw 100+ bottles get launched but I didn't have a problem with these cages:


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## kbiker3111 (Nov 7, 2006)

Saw this the other day and thought it might apply to this thread:

http://carolinacyclingnews.com/2011/09/01/lost-art-of-the-group-ride/


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## QQUIKM3 (Apr 20, 2008)

*Totally agree. . .*



OnTheRivet said:


> People who "race" centuries are pathetic, not elitist.


The thing I don't get is a non-professional cyclist pretending to be an "elitist". Unless you are a paid rider, you just another chump dressed in spandex. I imagine even real racers (paid to ride) don't act like douc*bags.


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## jmitro (Jun 29, 2011)

that's an interesting article, but a bit idealistic and oversimplified in the view of group rules.

As a new rider, I am aware there are "rules" of etiquette and group riding, but what are they? How do you learn them? Does every rider practice them, and under what circumstances?

the notion of learning to be a cyclist like an apprentice is grossly oversimplified IMHO, as the demands of life don't allow some cyclists to attend big group rides. For me, it is simply by reading these internet stories and forums by which I learn some of the "rules."


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## pretender (Sep 18, 2007)

jmitro said:


> the notion of learning to be a cyclist like an apprentice is grossly oversimplified IMHO, as the demands of life don't allow some cyclists to attend big group rides.


You're not a cyclist.


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## pedalruns (Dec 18, 2002)

OnTheRivet said:


> Nothing wrong with going hard, but when people start getting serious about something that is essentially a "fun" ride, it's too much. Also most centuries don't have closed roads so "racing" it is dangerous and so full of variables (Stop lights, trains etc) that your time doesn't mean much. Want to get serious, sack up, pin a number on and get beat by people who know your racing.


This is a perfect example (and your other comments) of the "elite" attitude that gives all road cyclist a bad name. 


BTW... on the Rivet... Many of the top cat 1 & 2's in the DFW area do 'race' the local rallys... Oh and btw very few USCF races have rolling enclosures, only crits have a closed course.


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## jmitro (Jun 29, 2011)




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## kbiker3111 (Nov 7, 2006)

jmitro said:


> As a new rider, I am aware there are "rules" of etiquette and group riding, but what are they? How do you learn them? Does every rider practice them, and under what circumstances?


You show up at the ride, introduce yourself as the FNG and ask to speak to the ride leader. Do whatever said person says. Ask experienced riders for advice.

You cannot learn anything of value on the internet. [/irony]


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## OnTheRivet (Sep 3, 2004)

pedalruns said:


> This is a perfect example (and your other comments) of the "elite" attitude that gives all road cyclist a bad name.
> 
> 
> BTW... on the Rivet... Many of the top cat 1 & 2's in the DFW area do 'race' the local rallys... Oh and btw very few USCF races have rolling enclosures, only crits have a closed course.


How am I being elitist? I'm saying that centuries should be fun and reserved for people who treat them that way not as a de-facto race for people who's egos are too fragile to sign up for real races and get beat. It's like the local training rides where you have these guys who try to kill everybody in December when the real racers are cruising so they can brag about it, yet they never actually race when there is a results sheet for everyone to see.


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## the_doctor (Dec 27, 2008)

I feel so bad that I was only able to complete a 5 hr century here in New England with two of my buddies. 

Bill


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## Cinelli 82220 (Dec 2, 2010)

OnTheRivet said:


> race when there is a results sheet for everyone to see.


Exactly, race in real races. Against racers, not cyclo-tourists with saddlebags and helmet mirrors.


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## nyvram (Apr 11, 2002)

ok, a couple of things

1. ontherivet insists on misrepresenting this thing even though he knows the way this challenged worked.

2. its not a 'race', its a challenge to complete a century in under 4 hours. i dont know how much more clearly i can state this. the 'elite' group is mainly racers and others who want to go fast to try to accomplish this goal. rolling roadblocks and mobile H20 support is provided by the ride organizers for this.

3. who said you can't do both?? i've raced 26 times this year and i enjoyed this as much as any of those races. 

4. the surviving 12 "cyclo-tourists with saddlebags" in your words were all cat1/2/3/4 racers. you are more than welcome to laugh at them and tell them to pin a number on next time.


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## dave2pvd (Oct 15, 2007)

OnTheRivet said:


> centuries should be fun and reserved for people who treat them that way


Why not be more inclusive? What could be the harm? The more, the merrier, right?

Secondly, who says the sub-4 guys aren't having fun?


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## Doctor Falsetti (Sep 24, 2010)

Cinelli 82220 said:


> Exactly, race in real races. Against racers, not cyclo-tourists with saddlebags and helmet mirrors.


This is one of the key challenges with the sport in the US. The gulf between century riding and USCF is large. Part of it is attitude....the only way to "Race" is a parking lot crit. A larger issue is the lack of events that bridge this gulf. 

I am American but spent much of my life living in Europe. I am still there 2-3 months of the year. 20 years ago there was the same gulf in events. Licensed racing or what was essentially Touring. These days the number of competitive outlets are amazing and the sport has benefited greatly from it.

Gran Fondo's, Sportives, Stage races, Endurance Mtn bike. The competition is super high, a US Cat 3 would be lucky to break the top 1,500 in some of the larger events. Providing a competitive outlet for a wide range of riders not only helps support the industry but also results in better riders. 

We should encourage events that help provide a bridge between USCF cycling and charity rides.


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## spade2you (May 12, 2009)

It would be nice if races were longer, although something about 100 miles surrounded by Cat 4s touching wheels kinda scares me. 1,500 of us.......ouch. 

Logistically, I don't see the 100 mile USAC races happening. It's often tough enough to partially lock down the courses/loops for RR courses. For the most part, most races don't make lots of $, so expecting to race longer isn't quite feasible. Sure, some of us would be willing to spend a little extra, but people are effin' cheap usually.


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## Doctor Falsetti (Sep 24, 2010)

I agree on the idea of 1,500 Cat 4's, but you have to start somewhere. Greater variety of events with a lower barrier to entry raises the level. 

Here is a good event. They have a Pro,1, 2 and a GF. Great course, it sells out 7,000 entries in weeks. 
http://www.rbcgranfondowhistler.com/

A bit expensive though. Most of the events I do in Italy or France are about $50 and come with some cool swag. Levi also puts on his Gran Fondo. The front of that ride is fast. 

Ultimately we should be promoting that idea that hard, competitive, riding can be found outside of the parking lot crit world.


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## pretender (Sep 18, 2007)

In the local 10K fun run, there doesn't seem to be any major conflict between the people actually racing for placings, and those who just want to say they ran 6 miles. Why can't the same be true in a bike event?

I see nothing wrong in wanting to ride a fast century, or even to "win" the century, as long as you aren't harming anybody else's good time.


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## asgelle (Apr 21, 2003)

pretender said:


> In the local 10K fun run, there doesn't seem to be any major conflict between the people actually racing for placings, and those who just want to say they ran 6 miles. Why can't the same be true in a bike event?


Peloton


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## spade2you (May 12, 2009)

That'd be nice. I suspect that some of the crit racing is because it's spectator friendly, logistically much easier, and that most racers seem to enjoy them. I'm definitely not a fan of them, but mostly race them since that's a good percentage of my local racing. I'd say we need more time trials....but I know I'd be on my own with that one.


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## nyvram (Apr 11, 2002)

i agree about parking lot crits. i'm not a huge fan (plus i'm not very good at them) but when they close a few city blocks for a crit..those are much more fun to me. even on sunday mornings when the only people who show up are spouses, kids and friends of the racers..they're still fun.

another thing i think is missing is the ability to 'mix' with other riders in something that is competitive. aside from training rides, i never get to do anything with cat123s because i'm a lowly 4 (or 5 for most of the season).

there is a gran fondo here with a competitive 64 mile course and the requirements are to have 1 person over 45 and 1 female...and i have to tell you the wheeling and dealing to grab the top riders in this area has been a blast. i am looking forward to velcroing a transponder on my bike and going out with a mixed group of racers and strong females as much as any race i've done this year.

there was also a 'super 80' (think breaking away) here at the old racetrack a couple years ago with a similar formula as far as having diverse people on your team. i'd love to do that as well.

'challenge' centuries like harpeth river ride (with lance armstrong and ben king showing up to ride all 100 miles!), cherohala, 3state3mountain, 10gap and 6gap, etc. are also unique events with their own pay-offs.

if all cycling was parking lot crits or group rides on the weekends, i think i'd get bored pretty quick. its the variety of cycling events that you can do that keeps things interesting.

ps sorry, i fat-fingered the 'submit' button before i was done typing)

pps i agree with spade..more time trials!!! (course thats my strongest skill at the moment...) ;-)


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## Creakyknees (Sep 21, 2003)

so how did we get from griping about snotty racers, to talking about ways to be a racer?


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## nyvram (Apr 11, 2002)

lol this thread has taken all sorts of circuitous twists and turns. maybe i should change the title.

eta creaky -- it was never the racers i was griping about originally..they were actually very supportive all along. i pointed that out about 2 or 3 posts into this thread.


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## Guest (Sep 13, 2011)

pretender said:


> In the local 10K fun run, there doesn't seem to be any major conflict between the people actually racing for placings, and those who just want to say they ran 6 miles. Why can't the same be true in a bike event?
> 
> I see nothing wrong in wanting to ride a fast century, or even to "win" the century, as long as you aren't harming anybody else's good time.


In a bike race it's a lot easier to accidentally take someone out in a crash than a footrace on wide roads like most 10k's (10k cross and track racing can actually involve a surprising amount of shoving/contact with other runners though... particularly XC races with 150+ athletes that narrow to single-track with trees on both sides...) 

I had some friends in high school who entered a marathon and tried to pace/draft off the the elite runners to get themselves a 5k PR... they got dropped around 2.5mi in (Elite marathon pace would be low 15min range for 5k which is pretty competitive in US high school). Some guys doing something similar in a bike race could easily crash a large fraction of a paceline/peloton.


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## pretender (Sep 18, 2007)

PhotonFreak said:


> Some guys doing something similar in a bike race could easily crash a large fraction of a paceline/peloton.


Please.


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## pedalruns (Dec 18, 2002)

PhotonFreak said:


> Some guys doing something similar in a bike race could easily crash a large fraction of a paceline/peloton.


Some guys & gals having a chat, smelling the roses, pedaling slow could miss a pothole and crash a large portion of the 'fun ride'....


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## Undecided (Apr 2, 2007)

spade2you said:


> It would be nice if races were longer, although something about 100 miles surrounded by Cat 4s touching wheels kinda scares me. 1,500 of us.......ouch.
> 
> Logistically, I don't see the 100 mile USAC races happening. It's often tough enough to partially lock down the courses/loops for RR courses. For the most part, most races don't make lots of $, so expecting to race longer isn't quite feasible. Sure, some of us would be willing to spend a little extra, but people are effin' cheap usually.


Isn't some of that addressed by upgrading? There are plenty of ~100 mile P/1/2 road races, although most of them are on multiple laps of some course. 

Although "racing" with 1,500 people, whoever they are, would be absurd. I've done kermesses with about 200 starters, and even at that number, if you're starting at the back, you're not really racing for a placing.


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## nyvram (Apr 11, 2002)

i raced a crit a few weeks ago where we had 87 riders..it was ridiculous. you had no hope if you lined up wrong because it was so spread out the front group was GONE by halfway through the first lap. it was over before it started for me.


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## den bakker (Nov 13, 2004)

pretender said:


> Please.


look at the casualty list for tour of tucson and it's rather obvious it's an issue.


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## Andy69 (Jun 14, 2008)

pigpen said:


> Sure wish I could ride a century in 4 hours.
> Let us know how your ride pans out.


I'd be happy with 6 hours


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## pedalruns (Dec 18, 2002)

den bakker said:


> look at the casualty list for tour of tucson and it's rather obvious it's an issue.


What is an issue? That bicycling is dangerous. 

In a uscf race, in a tour that keeps time and offers time finish medals(tour of tucson, which I have done twice), rally with no time kept, group rides of all abilities, donut rides to giant Gran Fondo's and double centries................Crap happens in all forms and fashions of riding. To each their own.


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