# If you would have to do it again Shimano or SRAM



## cloudbuster (Nov 7, 2011)

Hi, I can get a complete bike equipped with; (for about that amount)
RED $2500
Force $2000
Dura-Ace $2700
Ultegra $1800
im not listing place or link. I dont want to start a war I just list the component because you can always get another frame, wheels etc.

another question which one is preferred for climbing 50/34 or 53/39?

thanks.


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## DIRT BOY (Aug 22, 2002)

Easy, what ergonomics fit you better? 
Esthetically, I prefer SRAM. Ergonomics, SRAM.

Quality, Shimano Shifting, Shimano. Reliability, Shimano. Mechanics on how to shift, Shimano.

First is ergonomics for YOU and shifting preference.

Money no object, DA or RED. Otherwise FORCE or Ultegra

Compacts for regular folks.


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## Newnan3 (Jul 8, 2011)

I personally prefer the Shimano shifters over the SRAM double tap.....


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## Akez (Aug 13, 2011)

SRAM all the way. If money isnt a problem, then red is the way to go. 

For most amateur cyclists, on most climbs they will need a 50/34. And most recreational cyclists prefer them as well. 

I personally prefer a 53/39 just because I am a sprinter, and am alright on most climbs with a 39/25.


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## ooskyoome (Jan 23, 2011)

I just started with SRAM Force and like everything except the front shifting. Usually have to make two attempts to get to the big ring. I have a 53/39 and would like a compact to replace it with.


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## woodys737 (Dec 31, 2005)

SRAM Red and 53/39 for me because...

I like the ergonomics of the SRAM hoods and shift lever capabilities for sprinting, zero loss and just the general way the shifters throw, double tap logic v.DA. If you like a smoother feel to the shift go with DA. Can't comment on Ultegra.

I use a 53/39 mostly because I don't do a lot of climbing that would necessitate otherwise for my current power. I use a 12-27 cassette for the steeper climbs and climbs at altitude.

edit...also, trim is much better with Shimano v. SRAM imho.


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## burgrat (Nov 18, 2005)

In my experience, Ultegra is an excellent group. I have ridden Dura-Ace, Ultegra, and SRAM Rival, so I can't comment on RED or Force, but I have been more than satisfied with Ultegra. I also like value, so I'd go with Ultegra and use money saved for additional parts (i.e., extra cassette, extra wheelset, etc.). Aesthetically, Ultegra is not everyone's favorite. 
As far as climbing goes, 50/34 is a better choice IMO.


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## Chainstay (Mar 13, 2004)

If you go with Shimano you can upgrade to electronic later if you want


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## PRB (Jun 15, 2002)

None of the above.


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## nOOky (Mar 20, 2009)

I prefer and am used to Shimano. For me if all you listed were in your price range I'd say Dura Ace followed by Red and then Ultegra etc.
As for gearing that depends on you and the terrain. A 53/39 is okay if your a strong climber or the climbs are long but not steep, if your an average recreational cyclist a compact will be just fine too. More important to me would be the cassette choice over the front rings. I'd find a handy online gear calculator and do a little legwork yourself using all you know about your riding and go from there. On this forum all's you'll probably get will be a thread jack of your post about the benefits of compact versus standard.


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## Mike Overly (Sep 28, 2005)

SRAM. Shifting gesture far superior to Shimano and Campy, IMO.


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## Mr. Versatile (Nov 24, 2005)

I've had Campy Record, Shimano 105, Ultegra & Dura Ace. Of those listed I like the Dura ace. I just don't know enough about Sram to give any opinion.


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## Optimus (Jun 18, 2010)

Shimano or Sram, can't go wrong with either or, they're both good, but in different ways. Get both sets, then decide. lol


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## 55x11 (Apr 24, 2006)

cloudbuster said:


> Hi, I can get a complete bike equipped with; (for about that amount)
> RED $2500
> Force $2000
> Dura-Ace $2700
> ...


I would go with Ultegra, mostly because you can save $200 over SRAM Force, and even more over Dura-Ace or Red, and it's an excellent gruppo that will work wonderfully.

I would get compact if you do any serious climbing. Just make sure to get 11 small cog.


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## TWB8s (Sep 18, 2003)

cloudbuster said:


> Hi, I can get a complete bike equipped with
> 
> another question which one is preferred for climbing 50/34 or 53/39?
> 
> thanks.


Get one with Campy. As for climbing, man up and run 53/39 with the rest of us.


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## Bullvine (Sep 9, 2009)

Put me in for Campagnolo riding steel with Athena and Alum with Chorus.
My next ride will be Ti with Record.


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## Don4 (Jul 29, 2010)

Coming off of old world (as in 1983) down tube shifters last year, I just couldn't warm up to the movable feast that is the brake lever on Shimano shifters. So I tried SRAM Red. And it's not too bad. It shifts well for me, and to me the shifting logic, and the fixed brake levers just make sense to me, but I'm not sure how happy I am with how my hands interface with the hoods.

I could solve this by going to either the Di2 Ultegra or DuraAce (my wife has DuraAce Di2 on her 2010 Felt Z2, with a clever combo of Ultegra everywhere but the shifters and deraileurs), and she's happy with it, and it has the fixed brake levers I desire.

But...I'm Campy 11 curious, both from an ergonomic standpoint, and just because I want to try it. Thinking of giving it a shot on the old Trek 560 I just picked up (probably with Athena) and going from there.


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## tee-bone (Apr 27, 2011)

I built a bike this year with an all Force group (except a Red cassette). Shifting is not quite as clockwork-like as the Ultegra bike I rode for a bit. That being said, both front & rear shift perfectly reliably; I happen to like the ergonomics (although I am not that picky about stuff like that). And it weighs, I believe, even less that DA (if that matters to you). Having said all that I am not sure I would pay $200 for Force over Ultegra. Shimano definitely has a great feel to the mechanism. Kind of like the difference between the turn signal on a Honda versus a Chevy. The Honda just has a more positive feel; the Chevy feels mushy. They both serve to indicate turns, however.

So in summary; if you are one of those folks who notices HOW things work rather than IF they work, then I'd go for the Shimano. If you want maximum bang for the buck; SRAM. And stick to Force or Ultegra - by far the value leaders in their respective lines.


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## Ziggy (Sep 12, 2006)

My vote goes to SRAM Force with Red shifters.


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## kbwh (May 28, 2010)

Don4 said:


> But...I'm Campy 11 curious, both from an ergonomic standpoint, and just because I want to try it. Thinking of giving it a shot on the old Trek 560 I just picked up (probably with Athena) and going from there.


Get Chorus Ergolevers then, or Athena Ultra Shift Ergolevers off the bay. Power Shift levels the playing field, so to speak.

Which leads me to: Get Campagnolo, cloudbuster. Chorus or fancier.


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## bernithebiker (Sep 26, 2011)

Anyone saying yeah, climb with a 53/39 has either a) probably never ridden in the Alps or the Pyrenees, or b) is a pro-cyclist.


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## wetpaint (Oct 12, 2008)

For me, it's Sram, I got hit by a car last week and my bike with Sram is broken, so I've been stuck riding an extra bike with 7800 and I can't wait to be back on Sram Red.


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## Yolajeff (Aug 24, 2011)

I have 13 year old DuraAce on my bike and it's still going strong. You have to love the DuraAce durability. Don't know enough to comment on SRAM.


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## Tommy Walker (Aug 14, 2009)

burgrat said:


> In my experience, Ultegra is an excellent group. I have ridden Dura-Ace, Ultegra, and SRAM Rival, so I can't comment on RED or Force, but I have been more than satisfied with Ultegra. I also like value, so I'd go with Ultegra and use money saved for additional parts (i.e., extra cassette, extra wheelset, etc.). Aesthetically, Ultegra is not everyone's favorite.
> As far as climbing goes, 50/34 is a better choice IMO.


+1, I think Ultegra is a better value over the other choices for my riding. As far as climbing, depends on how high, but a 28 on the rear cassette helps a lot.


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## minutemaidman (Jun 14, 2010)

Can you roll your eyes for me? Mine are sore. All these guys that "climb" on a standard crank - whatever. If you have anything more than little short girlie-man hills, or anything at some good altitude, I think youll be better served with a compact. Adjust the cassette from there to match your ability. I vote for Ultegra, especially at the prices you mention. I don't like the SRAM double tap shifting, especially on the FD, although if you sprint and shift a lot the double tap might be the way to go.


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## BeepBeepZipTang (Oct 8, 2009)

I had 105's on my caad9-5, and its good. For me Sram force is great for the ease of shifting. I would definitely go Sram again. 

for me 53/39 works well for hills, couldn't really tell the difference when I swapped it out from compact, slight......


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## Dereck (Jan 31, 2005)

cloudbuster said:


> Hi, I can get a complete bike equipped with; (for about that amount)
> RED $2500
> Force $2000
> Dura-Ace $2700
> ...


We're doing it again, just someplace in a different forum.

The real question is 'What do you prefer to hold and shift gears with on every ride you do on that bike?'

I tried Campag, SRAM and the Shimano I was using just fine a couple of years ago. Campag levers were too small for my hands and I never did like their thumb button shifters.

SRAM - spent more time trying to find a comfortable riding position for the levers than riding them, plus the whole pack knows when you shift gear. Solution mostly involved EBay...

Shimano - liked holding and shifting. Should never have tried the rest, but did. Have tried both DA and Ultegra - the latter are much quieter/smoother/ WHY and my eight-odd year old ones are still doing fine. My DA shifters (old ten speed, not current) clonk a little and are somewhat notchy, though they are low miles and may quiet down with more use.

Now ignore fashion and marketing and get what YOU like.

Hills - sorry, hate the things and live in Chicago - it's flat forever. My 'hilly' gear is my 36 x 23 low on a pair of wheels I reserve for some 'distant' rides, as opposed to my 50 x 12 high. If I ever need more than 50 x 12 for real, folk are gonna hurt 

D


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## Leadghost (Sep 7, 2005)

Chainstay said:


> If you go with Shimano you can upgrade to electronic later if you want


This makes no sense. The only part of Shimano you'd retain by going from cable to electronic is the crank, chain, and cassette. And you definitely don't need Shimano for these bits to have the electronic derailers work without issue.


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## bernithebiker (Sep 26, 2011)

Dereck said:


> Hills - sorry, hate the things and live in Chicago - it's flat forever. My 'hilly' gear is my 36 x 23 low on a pair of wheels I reserve for some 'distant' rides, as opposed to my 50 x 12 high. If I ever need more than 50 x 12 for real, folk are gonna hurt
> 
> D


I cannot even imagine cycling without hills........!!


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## Dereck (Jan 31, 2005)

bernithebiker said:


> I cannot even imagine cycling without hills........!!


I've dreamed of it all the years I've ridden! When I did this cycling thing seriously, my favourite 'ride' was a crit series on the taxyway of a redundant old Royal Air Force airfield back in my native England. Flat, flat and more flat, 180 turns at the ends and over the finish line every half mile or so. 

Perfection!

Chicago is pretty much ideal at my stage now - one trail we like to ride, wifey and I, has a bridge over a freeway for a little variety 

Like Bob Roll, I don't mind lugging up a hill if I know I can go tearing down the other side!

Still, if you are one of those skinny climbers who can rocket up a utility pole, you probably have a different line on the attraction of sweating out a hard charging paceline for miles on end, ending with a town line, coffee shop or whatever finishing event. Hang the chain on the right, watch the wheels in front and go!

D


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## teflondog (Aug 23, 2011)

When I was a kid, my bike had Shimano on it. So when I got back into riding as an adult, I naturally went with Shimano again. I test rode a bike with SRAM and I couldn't get used to the double tap shifters. 

If I could do it again though, I would go for the compact. I have a hard time climbing any real hills with 39/25 and end up walking my bike up.


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## Ppopp (Jun 20, 2011)

I did have a chance to do it all over again when my SRAM bike was stolen. And I chose SRAM (again). Rival on the first bike, Force on the replacement (mostly because of aesthetics). I just prefer SRAM ergonomics.


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## Ppopp (Jun 20, 2011)

...Almost forgot. 50x34 compact on both bikes, and I'll never go back. I live in Boulder and spend a lot of time riding in the mountains, and a 50-34 with 11-25 cassette lets me handle everything.


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## Salsa_Lover (Jul 6, 2008)

TWB8s said:


> Get one with Campy. As for climbing, man up and run 53/39 with the rest of us.


+1 Campagnolo Record (or Chorus for saving money) Standard


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## minutemaidman (Jun 14, 2010)

teflondog said:


> If I could do it again though, I would go for the compact. I have a hard time climbing any real hills with 39/25 and end up walking my bike up.


smells like (snif snif)...the truth. Good job teflondog!


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## Drew Eckhardt (Nov 11, 2009)

I'd skip Shimano/SRAM and go with Campagnolo in the form of 10 cogs, a pre-2011 rear derailleur, and NOS 2010 Centaur levers (new Chorus QS levers would also be an option, but the new lever shape feels great).

With 35 pounds less fat I'd be amenable to 11 cogs, Athena Group, and Chorus or NOS 2010 Athena shifters.

Ebay used shifter prices plus a new cable set can be comparable to new shifters from the UK which include a cable set.



cloudbuster said:


> another question which one is preferred for climbing 50/34 or 53/39?


You can put out nearly 50% more power before you need to shift on flat ground using a 39 ring instead of a 34 with a given cassette. Whether it works well enough in the mountains for you depends on the length and steepness of your climbs, your mean maximal power curve, preferred cadence range, what happens to your fatigue when you get out of that range, etc.

At the 145 pounds I weighed as a 24 year old cyclist and with the 235W of FTP I measured last year I'd take 50-39 x 13-26 with 10 cogs or 46-36 x 12-25 with 11. At 180 pounds and almost 40 I want 50-39-30 x 13-26 or maybe 50-39-28 x 12-23. Those come from the gearing I need, loving my 18 cog, and not needing anything bigger than 50x13 with the 12 just providing more range on the 39 ring.

With that weight and presumed power I found 42x28, 34x23, and 30x21 sufficient for everything in the Colorado Rockies.

Long climbs don't seem to run over 5% like the 20 and 30 mile up-hill slogs up Grand Mesa and Mt. Evans in Colorado. A 175 Watt endurance pace and that weight atop a 20 pound bike those produces a calculated 79 RPM using 34x23 which is a comfortable seated cadence.

Shorter climbs can be steeper with the worst running about 9% for a few miles reaching double digits in the switch-backs (the 4 miles up Magnolia Road in Boulder, CO) and are 60-65 RPM standing grinds for that weight and threshold power; flatter rides like Flagstaff mountain in Boulder, CO at 6.5-7.5% are seated 75-90 RPM affairs.

The arithmetic is consistent with my memories but YMMV.

If there's any question it's easier to put 53/39 rings (you can buy them with 110mm BCD) on a bike with a compact crank than 50/34 on a bike with 130 or 135mm standard crank (that requires buying a new crankset since a ring smaller than 39 or 38 teeth won't fit).


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## 8toes (Feb 28, 2010)

I prefer the Shimano shifters as they seem to fit my hands better. I do like thew shifting as well. I did a short test with SRAM and it felt strange using the double-tap. I am sure I would get used to it after a while and be fine with it. But, for right now, Shimano is my group of choice.


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## brewster (Jun 15, 2004)

I have Chorus 10 spd and Centaur 10spd groups as well as an original 20 year old 8sp Dura Ace group which I still ride on a regular basis. Probably has over 50,000 miles on it. Of course it's heavier, my DA 7401 group is totally indestructible. It is less finicky to setup and is more solid and precise when shifting and authoritative when braking. Who can argue with results like that? If I were looking into a new bike, I would invest in Dura Ace for the value in the way it's built. I'd be curious about SRAM, but hard to argue with long term durability facts like that.

brewster


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## tinfoilhat (May 16, 2010)

*Gosh, both are great, but...*

Shimano definitely smoother, but SRAM seems to have shorter throws and once you get adjusted to double tap it rocks. I really like that there is no movement in the brake lever and that you can easily adjust the lever distance from the bar. The 'Clicky" shifts seem to get better over time. Never will be as buttery, but it is certainly precise.

As far as compact versus double goes, I'm heading to senior citizen territory and I ride in Vancouver. I rode two Gran Fondos this summer and I passed tons of people on the uphills. I'm never going back. In this neck of the woods you have people putting mountain bike derailleurs and cassettes on road bikes. Heck, the street I live on is 12% and it is nowhere near the steepest around here.

Oh yes, almost forgot. The ability to pull the shift levers towards you is the dealmaker for me. Small hands.


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## foot hill (Sep 25, 2010)

Try before you buy. Not a bad group in your list. And if your on the fence about price? Keep saving up! 
You'll forget paying that extra amount BUT you won't regret the purchase while riding,shifting,braking and just standing back and looking at your bike. 

CRANK OPTIONS? If you live near hills or plan on ridding them and your ASKING Get the compact. 



...... My reputation sucks.


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## hanginon (Nov 14, 2011)

Sram ! Force group every bit as good as Red for the money.


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## danl1 (Jul 23, 2005)

Chainstay said:


> If you go with Shimano you can upgrade to electronic later if you want


That's equally true if you started from SRAM. The electronics can't read the label on the crank.


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## vladvm (May 4, 2010)

get the previous model Dura Ace 7800 if you want to stick with mechanical shifting. 53/39 crank and DA rear cassette can get up to 27T which is plenty!


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## den bakker (Nov 13, 2004)

TWB8s said:


> Get one with Campy. As for climbing, man up and run 53/39 with the rest of us.


man up? be a real internet tough guy and go 42. geez.


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## Mootsie (Feb 4, 2004)

Bullvine said:


> Put me in for Campagnolo riding steel with Athena and Alum with Chorus.
> *My next ride will be Ti with Record*.


That's what my main ride is.... Moots with Record.
I know that is not for everyone. It's a bike geek thing, but I always love the sounds that Campy makes and I love the way it looks. All subjective things I know, but that's why it's a geek thing.

Back to the OP question. Shimano Ultegra is hard to beat. I've have it on my cross bike. It's just a nice groupo.


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## twiggy (Mar 23, 2004)

I rode Shimano Ultegra and Dura Ace for years until I switched to Force Last year - and if its any indication I just bought a new Cannondale EVO with RED!

Shimano is definitely more 'buttery' but Sram IMHO outperforms.... better ergonomics, lighter, nicer feeling brake levers (and that they don't move is confidence-inspiring on sketchy decents), zero-loss shifting and that great mechanical clicking sound/feel. One lever on each side takes some getting used to, but after km 50 or so you'll have it down. 

I haven't even tried my RED yet, but I would probably recommend Force just due to the fact that from everything I hear it's almost identical to Red but cheaper.... and hey, its lighter than Ultegra or DA!

As for Standard vs. Compact.... I've been riding Compact now for ~4 Years and I do think its probably the 'smartest' choice for me... that said, I've gotta admit that aesthetically I MUCH prefer the look of a big, macho, 130bcd 53T ring, and in the strong winds that we get where I live (Alberta, Canada) I do *occasionally* wish I had a 53-11! ....Far more frequently however, I'm glad I have compact cranks because: A) I'm nearly ALWAYS in the big ring once I get started other than long climbs... with compact I find the inner ring is like first gear on a car... you only use it when you stop at a light and by the time you're through the intersection you've shifted up!... I can also climb in the big ring unless the climb is pretty long/steep and B) When the climbs do get really long/hard/steep or you get really tired, spinning a high cadence really does help... I did many of the big climbs in the Alps this summer and most of the time I still had the legs/acceleration left to drop my Standard-riding buddies at the top! C) A 50-11 isn't much different than a 53-12, and you can always buy a 53T 110BCD ring if you really want.


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## TWB8s (Sep 18, 2003)

bernithebiker said:


> Anyone saying yeah, climb with a 53/39 has either a) probably never ridden in the Alps or the Pyrenees, or b) is a pro-cyclist.


Anyone climbing with a 34 or less is a tourist. Not that there's anything wrong with that.


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## TWB8s (Sep 18, 2003)

den bakker said:


> man up? be a real internet tough guy and go 42. geez.


That's what is on my Serotta, 52/42 Record friction. Do new cranks even offer that as an option?


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## den bakker (Nov 13, 2004)

TWB8s said:


> That's what is on my Serotta, 52/42 Record friction. Do new cranks even offer that as an option?


you can buy the rings at least. or it might be called a "tt" set


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## den bakker (Nov 13, 2004)

TWB8s said:


> Anyone climbing with a 34 or less is a tourist. Not that there's anything wrong with that.


meh, if contador can swallow his pride, I would guess most other could.


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## twiggy (Mar 23, 2004)

den bakker said:


> meh, if contador can swallow his pride, I would guess most other could.


Werd.... Contador, Nibili and the like were riding 34-32 in Italy... I'm a superman in comparison on my 'mountain gearing' 34-28!


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## den bakker (Nov 13, 2004)

twiggy said:


> Werd.... Contador, Nibili and the like were riding 34-32 in Italy... I'm a superman in comparison on my 'mountain gearing' 34-28!


just to be clear (and not directed to you), those gearings were only used on the stupidly steep climbs. However, since the OP only asked what to use for climbing, there is no way to know the steepness of the climbs or after how many miles of climbing. Besides, not every climb is a race


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## marshall21205 (Apr 21, 2006)

For me from my stand point of a mechanic as well as a racer. My choices go as follow 1)shimano 2) campy 3) SRAM

Unless someone is paying me to ride for them and I dont have a choice in the matter I will run my 9 speed ultegra until it dies. At that point I will approach the 10 speed intersection but I do know I really dislike everything but the aestitcs of SRAM. The tuneability and function of it in my opinion is questionable at best


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## siclmn (Feb 7, 2004)

Ultegra DI-2!
Well I hope I will like it when it comes in. No more cables and their related problems. Still waiting for my new bike.


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## terry b (Jan 29, 2004)

Square taper Campy.


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## twiggy (Mar 23, 2004)

den bakker said:


> Besides, not every climb is a race


...agree to disagree


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## seemana (Jul 1, 2009)

I have one bike with Rival, one with Ultegra. I prefer the shifting of the Rival setup. Mostly the action...ergonomics feel fine on either. 

If I were in your spot with those choices, I'd get the Force equipped ride for $2000.


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## cloudbuster (Nov 7, 2011)

I been looking at the campy now it seem high up on the money Department.
the less expensive I found for a Super Record Ti group is $1,688.13 US

It seem like a lot of recommendation for different setups now im having a hard time deciding im even considering getting Ultegra Di2, or build a custom different components from the lightest of each as long as is compatible


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## cloudbuster (Nov 7, 2011)

I found this page for groups weight
Component Weights - Total Cycling

1st Red BB30
2nd Super Record Ti
3rd Red GXP


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## psycleridr (Jul 21, 2005)

If money is a concern then throw out DA, Red and anything Campy

If aesthetics is primary concern I love the Campy stuff. It is just pretty and has a very polished appearance above the rest IMHO

Shimano is smoother than SRAM

SRAM static brake lever are better for racing IMHO. Keeps you from making braking/shifting errors

You can fix SRAM and Campy stuff....although I have 12 YO 9sp DA that is still running strong so ......

Ergonomics of all is dependant on rider

Compact unless you live in Florida. I have both and live in a semi-hilly area. I have gotten up everything on both cranks although I always feel fresher and less fatigued on the compact. My bikes have a 11-25 with the standard and 12-27 with the compact


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## WWayne (Jan 7, 2011)

*differences and simularities*

For me switching between SRAM and Shimano is not a big leap. The breaks work the same for emergencies and a little thought for shifting is OK. On long rides I find the Shimano to be a little less fatiguing. SRAM up and down shifts require the same motion but are separated for Shimano. 

I am still screwing up with my new Focus Rigid commuter though. The XT levers feel the same but are backwards from the 8 speed internal hub of the retired Schwinn. Up and down shifts take some thought and sometimes I still out think myself.


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## Mr. Versatile (Nov 24, 2005)

Shimano. It works perfectly so why would I want to change. It ain't broke.


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## RC28 (May 9, 2002)

55x11 said:


> I would go with Ultegra, mostly because you can save $200 over SRAM Force, and even more over Dura-Ace or Red, and it's an excellent gruppo that will work wonderfully.
> 
> I would get compact if you do any serious climbing. Just make sure to get 11 small cog.


If you shop around a bit, you can get Force to within $100 of Ultegra.


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## RC28 (May 9, 2002)

ooskyoome said:


> I just started with SRAM Force and like everything except the front shifting. Usually have to make two attempts to get to the big ring. I have a 53/39 and would like a compact to replace it with.


I think that your derailleur might just need some careful adjustment. Although admittedly the SRAM front shifting is not as nice as Shimano's, I don't think I've ever experienced your problem in my SRAM setups. They all shift perfectly (although again, not as smoothly as Shimano) up front...one attempt and it just shifts.


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## velominati (Nov 23, 2011)

For me - SRAM.

If money is no object, obviously Red. Otherwise either Force or Rival.

As for compact vs standard - that depends on you and the hills in your area.


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## Camilo (Jun 23, 2007)

Mr. Versatile said:


> Shimano. It works perfectly so why would I want to change. It ain't broke.


For me, when I needed a new group, I bought Sram just because I'd never used it. Would I have sold my Shimano group just for the sake of buying the Sram? No. I still use my Ultegra group, moved over to my commuter and am perfectly happy with it, but was building up a new pure road bike and just decided to try something different. I hope to do the same with Campy and even electronic stuff or microshift sometime in the future, but being in my late 50s and not going through gear very quickly these days, I don't know if I'll live long enough!

Never been unhappy with any group I've ever used, but that's not the only reason to change up every once in a while.


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## MojoHamuki (Feb 20, 2009)

I've used Shimano Ultegra, Campy Record, and now am now using Sram Rival. I have to say it depends on what kind of riding I'm doing. I find for climbing I liked the Campy the best - nice and easy with thumb shifting when in an effort - very smooth. Ultegra and Sram to me shift alot alike. Difference is one paddle vs two. The Shimano feels more solid but doesn't really shift any different to me. However I have to say I'm new to using the Sram still.


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## joshf (Aug 5, 2011)

C: Campagnolo


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## dongringo (Dec 3, 2011)

I have SRAM Force and have preferred it over Ultegra ever since day one of making the switch. The double tap system just felt natural from the start.


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## PlatyPius (Feb 1, 2009)

Don4 said:


> Coming off of old world (as in 1983) down tube shifters last year, I just couldn't warm up to the movable feast that is the brake lever on Shimano shifters. So I tried SRAM Red. And it's not too bad. It shifts well for me, and to me the shifting logic, and the fixed brake levers just make sense to me, but I'm not sure how happy I am with how my hands interface with the hoods.
> 
> I could solve this by going to either the Di2 Ultegra or DuraAce (my wife has DuraAce Di2 on her 2010 Felt Z2, with a clever combo of Ultegra everywhere but the shifters and deraileurs), and she's happy with it, and it has the fixed brake levers I desire.
> 
> But...I'm Campy 11 curious, both from an ergonomic standpoint, and just because I want to try it. Thinking of giving it a shot on the old Trek 560 I just picked up (probably with Athena) and going from there.


You'll have to come back and test ride my Cyfac....


As for me, I prefer Campy. Of the ones the OP listed, though, I'd pick the Force bike.


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## MerlinDS (May 21, 2004)

I guess you are buying online, if not you wouldn't have to ask us and you could decide for yourself by riding each group. I have ridden d/a since 1984, I'm a shimano guy. I would get ultegra, save the 900 beans, and use it on a nicer set of wheels and a second crank if you can't decide between compact and regular, or get a broader range cassette, would stll save money over red or d/a, my .2.


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## Pitts Pilot (Dec 5, 2011)

It's all pretty dang good at this point. I will say that I liked my 6600 ultegra better than my new 6700 (smoother running and more attractive) and that's made me wish I gave SRAM a shot. As for gearing, it doesn't depend on how manly you are, it depends on how steep the grade. I climb 10 to 12 thousand feet a week and ride several roads here in Taiwan that are over 20% grade. I have a triple and a 28 in back. I'd go lower if I could. The purists, with their standard rings, scoff at me at the 7-11, but I NEVER see them on those roads. Even when it's not THAT steep, my gears allow me to stay seated on some grades where my buddies must stand and on a 4-5 hour ride I'd prefer to remain seated as much as possible. The compact does look better than the triple though, I must admit. The other loss is that I "spin out" at a bit over 40mph.


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## OhLuckyMan (Sep 11, 2011)

*SRAM vs Shinano*

There are a lot of right answers here. The bottom line is that you really need to spend a bit of time with both. Try and rent or take some test rides if you can. If you are upgrading from an old system or a straight bar and are unfamiliar with either of the mechanisms, then you will fall in love with the first one that you try. If you are already familiar with one mechanism, and if you like it, then stick with it. I went from downtube shifters to SRAM Apex and it is great. I had ridden an Ultegra triple for a few hours but love the SRAM compact. I personally prefer the fixed brake handle (esp on knarly descents) over the brake/gear mech of the Shimano. I ride in the alps and am fairly new to high(ish) end roadbikes so am gaining fitness. I need the wide gearing of the 11-32 for the 12% grades found here and the compact 50/34 covers it all. As you have seen here, there are no correct answers but all of them are correct too. In terms of quality though, I really don't think that there is much between them. 

One thing though. If you are newish to this game and are not racing but riding 2-3 hr rides for fun and fitness, don't get suckered into buying the top of the line components. You will never likely notice the difference. Stick with the mid ranges.

Ride On.
OLM


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## cohiba7777 (Jul 6, 2006)

*Couldn't agree more....*



Mootsie said:


> That's what my main ride is.... Moots with Record.
> I know that is not for everyone. It's a bike geek thing, but I always love the sounds that Campy makes and I love the way it looks. All subjective things I know, but that's why it's a geek thing.
> 
> Back to the OP question. Shimano Ultegra is hard to beat. I've have it on my cross bike. It's just a nice groupo.


I am on a Moots with Campy Chorus - Have ridden Ultegra, Dura-Ace and SRAM Red. 

Ultegra: Had a rear derailleur literally snap (cage) during a century in NYC a few years back - still don't understand why nor could Shimano explain (nor would they replace). Otherwise a decent group but questionable reliability to me.

DA: Had shifter cable seize and had to replace - not a cheap undertaking. Did like the Flight Deck computer in my pre-Garmin days & overall a decent group.

SRAM Red: Never was able to get front derailleur set in correct position - learned later its angle of set was always going to be off on the 2007 Trek Madone 5.2 frame due to it's geometry. So - SRAM I thought was a solid group & I liked 2x tap shifting, but i threw a lot of chains on fd shifts which led me down the path to....

Campy Chorus: Snaps right in to position - period. Love the sound it makes on coast - just reeks of engineering and classic quality. The 2011/12 Chorus is really the Record of 2010 & I am sure the other groups are probably equal in their trickle-down upgrading of their lower groups.


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## redvespablur (Aug 23, 2011)

Argon 18 Gallium with Campy Chorus 11 (super record fd and Athena 53-39 carbon cranks with 12-29 cassette)

Bought the compact to swap on for the hilly rides but stiill in box as the 12-29 covers most of my bases.


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## Ventruck (Mar 9, 2009)

I'm not picking any of the 3 sides, but I figure this is the best thread to blabber:

Just picked up an Apex RD for my (attempted) Sramagnolo build. No joke, this thing is supposed to compete with just Tiagra? The thing has a finish/presentation comparable to 105. Not that it matters, but it even has bearing pulleys; and the "B-screw" works against the unit as opposed to the hangar (Shimano does that). Offer it in gun metal and it will out-bling any of Shimano's Decepticon-looking stuff.


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## OhLuckyMan (Sep 11, 2011)

Ventruck said:


> I'm not picking any of the 3 sides, but I figure this is the best thread to blabber:
> 
> Just picked up an Apex RD for my (attempted) Sramagnolo build. No joke, this thing is supposed to compete with just Tiagra? The thing has a finish/presentation comparable to 105. Not that it matters, but it even has bearing pulleys; and the "B-screw" works against the unit as opposed to the hangar (Shimano does that). Offer it in gun metal and it will out-bling any of Shimano's Decepticon-looking stuff.



Hmmmm... I always thought that Apex was positioned against the 105. Quality and performance seem there.


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## PlatyPius (Feb 1, 2009)

OhLuckyMan said:


> Hmmmm... I always thought that Apex was positioned against the 105. Quality and performance seem there.


Aye, Apex is supposed to "replace" the 105 Triple group if you go with the long cage derailleur and pie plate cassette. Anything that gets rid of triples on road bikes is good.


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## NJBiker72 (Jul 9, 2011)

cloudbuster said:


> Hi, I can get a complete bike equipped with; (for about that amount)
> RED $2500
> Force $2000
> Dura-Ace $2700
> ...


I really like Red. I went with the 50/34 option as i climb a lot and do not need the extra speed down hill since I am not racing.


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## cabsav214 (Jul 31, 2012)

I was just looking a swapping drivetrains on my bikes. I just picked up a C'dale CAADX disc Ultegra. I also have a SuperSix with Rival. I know that SRAM is generally better for CX. 
Here's the thing, they are both at my LBS right now while I am in Hawai'i. I have had some issues with the FD on the SuperSix, so I am trying to go with Force. So should I have the LBS swap the drivetrains and put the SRAM on the CX bike and Ultegra on the road bike? Both bikes have a BB30. I will probably have to switch the cassette and chainrings on one bike. My SuperSix has a Praxis Compact rings upfront.


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## RaptorTC (Jul 20, 2012)

I'm a Sram fan myself. I just love Double Tap and the ergonomics are comfortable in my hands. Can't really ask for anything more. To me using one shift paddle is just so much easier.


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## siclmn (Feb 7, 2004)

When all the above posters finally shift to DI- 2 all mechanical problems will be a thing of the past and you will experience perfect shifting all of the time. NO more cables.
And don't start talking batteries, they last a minium of 900 miles before you need to charge them.


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## Dfish (Mar 6, 2009)

I'm a Sram convert when It comes to road. My last bike was ultegra and my new bike is apex equipped. Even though the apex group is cheaper than ultegra I really enjoy riding with it, and can't believe it's the base group. 

mountain biking I find less difference between my x-9 and xt equipped bikes.


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## nOOky (Mar 20, 2009)

Switching groups between bikes, I'd say leave them as they are and just put on a new front derailleur. I don't know why you think Sram is better for cross, but that's a different discussion. Both groups work well for either imho.

For the record, I have been riding a cross bike equipped with Sram Apex all winter, it's okay, but I won't be buying a Sram group again. I don't care for double tap, or using the paddle to switch gears in the front versus using the whole shifter which is easier. Quite often I'll shift to a harder gear in the back rather than catching the next easiest gear, which is irritating if I'm climbing. Disclaimer is that I'm generally wearing heavy gloves so that is a big part of it, Sram is harder to shift with winter gloves on. Shimano has the advantage of each lever only performing one operation, and you have greater leverage cranking on the whole shift lever versus just the paddles. YMMV.


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## Oasisbill (Jan 15, 2011)

With Compact versus Standard, work out the speed you can maintain up the hills you climb regularly. (For me around here it's between 17 to 20 km/h except for one big hill). Then work out what cassette/chainring combination you need to maintain the right cadence for you (It's 90rpm for me). For me to go 18km/h up a hill at a cadence of around 90rpm I need to use a 39/25. I can go 15.7km/h at a cadence of 80rpm. 

On a compact and a 25 on the back at a cadence of 90rpm you will go 15.4 km/h.
For maybe 10 years I had a 42/23 as my easiest gear and I virtually stood at every big hill. I also wore woollen jerseys


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## dcvlehr (Jan 20, 2013)

so what would you recommend to a guy who wants to get into road bikes and doesnt want to have to upgrade later, but also doesn't want to pay too much for a bike. This would be more of a leasury hobby/workout than ever trying to compete.


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## Dfish (Mar 6, 2009)

So there is no right or wrong, just personal preference. The budget groups like Sram Apex and Shimano 105 will work great for you. They perform well, are durable and affordable. 

The levers function differently, and you should go to you lbs and try both to see what you prefer.



dcvlehr said:


> so what would you recommend to a guy who wants to get into road bikes and doesnt want to have to upgrade later, but also doesn't want to pay too much for a bike. This would be more of a leasury hobby/workout than ever trying to compete.


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## F45 (Nov 25, 2010)

cloudbuster said:


> another question which one is preferred for climbing 50/34 or 53/39?
> 
> thanks.


I only ride Dura-Ace. Newer gruppo for my primary, older for my commuter bike. I think Shimano makes a special effort to make Ultegra ugly and it is effective on me.

We only have short hills around here so I ride a 42/53 x 12-25 on the road bike and a 34/50 on my commuter since the 30lb backpack slows me down a bit. 

I'd change cranks like I change shoes. Whatever is optimal for 70rpm climbing. Don't be married to a tooth number.


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## adam_mac84 (Sep 22, 2010)

nOOky said:


> Switching groups between bikes, I'd say leave them as they are and just put on a new front derailleur. I don't know why you think Sram is better for cross, but that's a different discussion. Both groups work well for either imho.
> 
> For the record, I have been riding a cross bike equipped with Sram Apex all winter, it's okay, but I won't be buying a Sram group again. I don't care for double tap, or using the paddle to switch gears in the front versus using the whole shifter which is easier. Quite often I'll shift to a harder gear in the back rather than catching the next easiest gear, which is irritating if I'm climbing. Disclaimer is that I'm generally wearing heavy gloves so that is a big part of it, Sram is harder to shift with winter gloves on. Shimano has the advantage of each lever only performing one operation, and you have greater leverage cranking on the whole shift lever versus just the paddles. YMMV.



Thats funny. I miss shifts like crazy when my fingers are frozen in winter CX races here in michigan, or if i pick wrong gloves on shimano. Campy was better, because the levers weren't close to each other, and SRAM was my solution... I also like the ergonomics better.

I have ridden some di2, and I would have a hard time shifting with thick gloves on... but it doesn't seem to bother the pros, so it's probably just me


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## Doc_D (Mar 16, 2006)

I've owned both. They're both great groups but I find Shimano to be a cut above. 

I've been in the computer engineering field since i was a teenager back in the early 80s. Shimano and SRAM remind me alot of Intel and AMD. Intel was the only game in town and they got a little complacent. AMD , the new kids on the block with big ideas, came along along and shook things up for a bit. For a moment it looked like Intel had been bested. Then Intel threw their extensive assets and vast engineering experience into high gear and basically nearly put AMD out of business. 

With 11 speed and Di2 Shimano has jumped WAY ahead of SRAM. That's why SRAM Red group are going for 1/2 the price of Shimano groups on Ebay right now. At them moment SRAM has absolutely no answer.


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## TT-CX (Aug 25, 2011)

Shimano


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## kingpin26 (Jan 20, 2013)

It seems to be a personal choice but in my opinion ultegra and dura ace are built better


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## Pirx (Aug 9, 2009)

Doc_D said:


> With 11 speed and Di2 Shimano has jumped WAY ahead of SRAM.


Yup, they managed to almost pull even with Campagnolo now.


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## NJBiker72 (Jul 9, 2011)

kingpin26 said:


> It seems to be a personal choice but in my opinion ultegra and dura ace are built better


True. I do not know anyone with Sram wanting to change to shimano.


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