# I think I made my decision - Volagi



## steel rider (Oct 24, 2003)

I have researched and ridden many bikes, looked at everything from used to China sourced to Various brands. Got most serious about Parlee Z5 on closeout but they didn't have my size. Was about to get a Franco Kanan. Today I spent a couple of hours at Crank 2 in Pleasanton talking about Volagi. The original Liscio is on closeout but I'm going to take the Liscio 2 out for a 20 mile test ride. Shop owner insists on the long test with climbs and patchy roads. 
Size 57 Liscio 2 with Campy Chorus compact, Stan's clincher hoops with White Industries hubs, FSA carbon cranks, various other bits should total 15.5 or so pounds and be in my approved budget. They have a 55 with SRAM Red that is 15 exactly. Looking forward to clinching my decision with a test ride. 
Cool bike easily upgradable to Super Record EPS and carbon wheels some day. And I love supporting the small guys.


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## Ventruck (Mar 9, 2009)

Cool.

Would've been more inclined to the Parlee but I guess life wasn't letting you have it. Hope the Liscio serves you well. Post pics if/when you get it!


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## Hooben (Aug 22, 2004)

The only thing with the Volagi is that it comes with disc brakes...doesn't it? That's pretty tough to live down in the road cycling world. Get ready for a constant bombardment of questions on every ride as to why. You will get tired of it....


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## DaveT (Feb 12, 2004)

I saw the early Volagi several years ago, a very appealing bike. Let us know what you think.


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## RRRoubaix (Aug 27, 2008)

Volagi is one my list of bikes to check out for a gravel grinder (the Viaje, not the Liscio). I'll be curious to hear your opinion after a good test ride.
As far as getting too many questions about the disc brakes- just make sure you ride some dirt/gravel roads every now and then. That should shut up the disc-haters as it seems far more acceptable than discs on "regular" road bikes.
(Besides, most industry wags agree that discs are coming to road bikes in general, whether we want them or not- you'll be ahead of the curve!)


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## carlislegeorge (Mar 28, 2004)

Pics or it didn't happen...


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## steel rider (Oct 24, 2003)

I haven't spoken to anyone who thinks disc brakes are uncool on a road bike whether or not they are the next big thing. Not that I would care but if someone asked why then my question would be why not. The only real reason why not is weight but my bike will be lighter than most 57 cm steeds under $5k. Aerodynamics? Please. It isn't a crit bike. You just don't get it. The bike is about more than disc brakes. Like the Roubaix is about more than little bumpers. 

No time to take the test ride yet. Kids and work. 

The Viaje looks cool. Love the steel.


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## Dfish (Mar 6, 2009)

*Do it!*

What color are you thinking? I would have loved the lisco but wanted something more versatile. I've had my Viaje for a month, it's a absolute blast! Post up some picks when you get it! 

The disc thing is overhyped. I ****ing love them, and I'm convert for road applications, but people don't really care, or say much about them at all, even on group rides. AND i'm living in France.... supposedly they are traditional here. Regardless I don't know why I'd let fear of other people judging me affect my purchase.



Heres some shots of mine:

snowday1_2 by dfishdesign, on Flickr


P1030164 copy by dfishdesign, on Flickr


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## ziscwg (Apr 19, 2010)

steel rider said:


> I haven't spoken to anyone who thinks disc brakes are uncool on a road bike whether or not they are the next big thing. Not that I would care but if someone asked why then my question would be why not. The only real reason why not is weight but my bike will be lighter than most 57 cm steeds under $5k. Aerodynamics? Please. It isn't a crit bike. You just don't get it. The bike is about more than disc brakes. Like the Roubaix is about more than little bumpers.
> 
> No time to take the test ride yet. Kids and work.
> 
> The Viaje looks cool. Love the steel.


I think the ones that think disks are uncool are the ones that have not been on them yet. Or, they live in Florida where it's flat. 

As for the weight issue, look to mtb for some new ideas. A company called Kettle cycles has a silicon carbide ceramic carbon rotor that takes care of some of the weight and heat/warping issues that could arise. The rotors are 54 gr. Of course, like anything new, you have to wait 6 months to see how they are in the real world.

This is just on part of the innovation for discs to road. I'm sure there will be more to come.


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## steel rider (Oct 24, 2003)

@Dfish. Love that shot with the tower. You wouldn't find me out riding in the snow. The shop I go to has a tan and black Viaje and it looks great.

@ziscwg. Yes part of the fun will be looking at what new tech comes down the pipe. Will have to look at those ceramic rotors after a while.


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## steel rider (Oct 24, 2003)

Did a 29 mile test ride today and sealed the deal. Ordered a Liscio 2 with Campy Record (10 speed because it goes better with the FSA crank I'm told), FSA carbon crank (didn't make sense to me to get a BB30 adapter so I can run Campy crank), upgraded Avid rotors, White Industries hubs with Stan's NoTubes wheels, tubeless tires which will be new to me. Went with compact and a 12-29 Chorus cassette rather than the Record.
I have some Bebop pedals I'm going to try. Not sure if I will get a carbon handlebar or stay with the aluminum. 
Should be fun!


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## the508seal (Feb 3, 2013)

Disc brakes provide the best control in all conditions; leave no grime and don't wear out your rims and make for better aerodynamics. The road industry is moving in this direction. Volagi is leading the way. 

As for a bombardment of questions, to quote Novel Laureate Dr. Richard Feynman, "what do you care what other people think?"


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## steel rider (Oct 24, 2003)

*Over 16 pounds. Oh well*

Picked up the bike. Weight without cages and padals and with temp Veloce front DR is 16.76 pounds. I could get under 15 probably with carbon bars and new stem but its fine as is. 
I don't see how to uoad pics on the iPhone. Will do later.


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## steel rider (Oct 24, 2003)

*Pics attached for real now*

View attachment 276429
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View attachment 276427


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## aclinjury (Sep 12, 2011)

nice bike, but Alpha 340 is very light weight but they're flimsy.
A friend who is 150 lbs already broke multiple spokes in both wheels, twice in the back, and finally dented the back going over a pothole. He ditched them after that.

Another issue with these rims is that if you do get a flat, the tires will peel off much easier than compared to a shimano tubeless rim. This may be scary in a high speed or cornering situation.

Simply put, Stans makes them too thin, so much so that you can even flex their sidewalls with 2 fingers. And all the symptoms seem to stem from the thinness of the aluminum. Just about the only good thing from them is lightweight. Of course they are because they're so thin.


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## dnice (Jul 12, 2012)

looks lovely. a 29 mile test ride is a proper, much better opportunity to sort out the important qualities of the bike than the parking lot. congratulations, keep us posted its progress.


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## woodys737 (Dec 31, 2005)

steel rider said:


> Picked up the bike. Weight without cages and padals and with temp Veloce front DR is 16.76 pounds. I could get under 15 probably with carbon bars and new stem but its fine as is.
> I don't see how to uoad pics on the iPhone. Will do later.


Say what? How do you plan to drop 800g or more swapping the bars and stem?


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## wim (Feb 28, 2005)

woodys737 said:


> Say what? How do you plan to drop 800g or more swapping the bars and stem?


Agree, no way. But he's not really planning to do it if I understand his "fine as is" correctly. And he's right about leaving it alone. Volagis are not really about light weight anyway.


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## steel rider (Oct 24, 2003)

woodys737 said:


> Say what? How do you plan to drop 800g or more swapping the bars and stem?


Is this a real question or are you just bantering? Not just bars and stem. Ti skewers (on order) will drop nearly 100 grams, Record front DR, aggressive saddle, bars, tires, etc etc and I think it's possible. But like I said not worth it for my needs. I will just work on getting stronger legs, which I can now do in comfort.


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## steel rider (Oct 24, 2003)

aclinjury said:


> nice bike, but Alpha 340 is very light weight but they're flimsy.
> A friend who is 150 lbs already broke multiple spokes in both wheels, twice in the back, and finally dented the back going over a pothole. He ditched them after that.
> 
> Another issue with these rims is that if you do get a flat, the tires will peel off much easier than compared to a shimano tubeless rim. This may be scary in a high speed or cornering situation.
> ...


Thanks I guess. 

It may be that your friend doesn't know how to ride and/or is hard on wheels and probably other things. I know people like that. Must be the crappy wheels...

I'm quite happy with my decision based on more than a few consumer reviews, research, and my track record. That being said I will keep an eye on them. If they do give me grief I will post my experiences.


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## woodys737 (Dec 31, 2005)

steel rider said:


> Is this a real question or are you just bantering? Not just bars and stem. Ti skewers (on order) will drop nearly 100 grams, Record front DR, aggressive saddle, bars, tires, etc etc and I think it's possible. But like I said not worth it for my needs. I will just work on getting stronger legs, which I can now do in comfort.


Not bantering. You wrote:


> originally posted by steel rider: I could get under 15 probably with carbon bars and new stem but its fine as is.


 and therefore why I asked. Dropping 1.76lbs or approximately 800g just by changing bars and stem isn't possible. If you would have said something like more along the lines of your post above I wouldn't have chimed in. No worries man. I hope you get it to 15! All things equal lighter is better imo.


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## steel rider (Oct 24, 2003)

woodys737 said:


> Not bantering. You wrote: and therefore why I asked. Dropping 1.76lbs or approximately 800g just by changing bars and stem isn't possible. If you would have said something like more along the lines of your post above I wouldn't have chimed in. No worries man. I hope you get it to 15! All things equal lighter is better imo.


Wow did I write 15 instead of 16? I was wondering where you got your math. My mistake. I meant under 16 pounds. My apologies!


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## GregTR (Feb 28, 2013)

Very nice bike! Looks awesome! Enjoy!


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## MichaelB (Feb 28, 2010)

Hi Steel rider,

Great choice.

I've just finished building up mine. Came in at 7.5kg (w/out pedals and bottle cages). 

Works out to 16.5lb in your language. It's a Gen 2 F&F in 57cm, 29er carbon clinchers with 28/32 spokes, Red BB30 crank, Ultegra shifters, FD & RD, 180/160 Ice-Tec rotors and TRP Parabox

Looking fwd to getting it out for a test ride this weekend


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## steel rider (Oct 24, 2003)

Nice ride man. I am curious to see what hydraulic brake options come out in the future. I am mechanical for simplicity right now.
I want to look at carbon tubeless at some point. The problem is I can't justify it in any way at all besides it would look cool. 
Enjoy your ride!


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## MichaelB (Feb 28, 2010)

I've had the Parabox for over a year now, so will stick with it until full road hydraulic release.

Probably go with Shomano


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## trumpetbiker (Oct 9, 2013)

interesting thread -------- the discussion of disc has changed in the last 7 mo or so with the introduction of shimano and sram's new full system. but rather than go full monte with those, I took the easier plug n play version with the TRP hyrd on my Liscio, spyre on my lemond poprad. both are superior by a long ways over bb7, mechanically anyway and weightwise. 

a note on the HYRD's, they are hydro, stop exceptionally well and are lightweight. if you like your 6700 or campy shifters, keep em!

I'm toying with selling the both '12Liscio ultegra/dura ace/trp and the lemond poprad(sweet gravel rider) and building up a steel Viaje with the same. the combination of components and new wheelset model at 1500gr made as strong as the XL would make this ride around 19.5 - 20 lbs and give me versatility in one bike. 

any thoughts?


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## KMan (Feb 3, 2004)

How wide of a tire can you fit on these?


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## trumpetbiker (Oct 9, 2013)

Viaje allows for easily a 40mm. rode the Viaje two days ago and like it. just wanted to see if anyone else here rides a Viaje, can tell me if its as good as it seems? my Liscio is an amazing fit, rides well, I'm just not crazy over the feel/sound of carbon fiber. and my lemond poprad is not geometrically as comfortable for long road days.


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## KMan (Feb 3, 2004)

trumpetbiker said:


> Viaje allows for easily a 40mm. rode the Viaje two days ago and like it. just wanted to see if anyone else here rides a Viaje, can tell me if its as good as it seems? my Liscio is an amazing fit, rides well, I'm just not crazy over the feel/sound of carbon fiber. and my lemond poprad is not geometrically as comfortable for long road days.


How wide of a tire can the Liscio fit?


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## trumpetbiker (Oct 9, 2013)

The Liscio is a 17lb Disc road bike - I believe the widest rubber it can fit is 28mm without fenders. it was designed as an endurance bike, for comfort and road performance on all form of roads, mild trails. that's the reason I have the poprad disc, to ride to the trails on the roads, have my fun and ride back. the poprad allows me to do gravel and rough trails, etc. that the Liscio isn' meant for. The Viaje is more of a do everything bike.


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## lakes road sheep (Mar 19, 2007)

trumpetbiker said:


> Viaje allows for easily a 40mm. rode the Viaje two days ago and like it. just wanted to see if anyone else here rides a Viaje, can tell me if its as good as it seems? my Liscio is an amazing fit, rides well, I'm just not crazy over the feel/sound of carbon fiber. and my lemond poprad is not geometrically as comfortable for long road days.


I have had my Vijae for about 7 months now. I have put big fat tires on it and raced a local Gravel race "The Tainthammer" and I just rode the 124 Mile (15,000ft) Death Ride on it yesterday. I do roughly 50/50 road and dirt with the bike. The Vijae handles really well and descends like it is on rails. The rear end is very compliant over bumps yet feels stiff enough when climbing. I think the front end is harsh over bumps and it is no better than my road bike. I really think the bike is over forked and they should have gone or something slimmer for compliance.

My biggest complaints are that the paint is quite soft and scratches quite easily, the head tubes are too tall for the top tube length and it is heavy (mine is 21.46lbs with pedals and cages running 28c tires.) 

I had to go for a 55cm to keep the front end low enough to be comfortable but this resulted in the top tube being a little short and a longer stem had a negative effect on the handling in the dirt. The Liscio's I rode were even worse in this respect. I am not a lover of tall headtubes that stick your body up into the wind. 

The Vijae was really nice to ride on the death ride but you could feel the weight the climbs.


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## trumpetbiker (Oct 9, 2013)

I built up a frame/fork and bought new wheels, the bike probably is about the same as yours with dura ace/trp hyrd/ultegra/XTR RD/new model VL wheelset, have the same issues you do ----------- paint is soft. not as concerned about that part, but interesting you mentioned it and I noticed it. the weight for a road bike is too high, and I have my Liscio for most of my road stuff. but I did send the Viaje to Iowa for Ragbrai, not as many hills on that and I've done it a couple of times on two diff Lemonds, CF and Ti, so this will be the heaviest bike I've ridden------------not to be a weight weanie, anyway. 450mi of rollers and roughly 12,000 ft won't be bad, I've done climbs in the pacific NW with it, so I'm ok with it geared down to the 32 cass/34 compact. from this point on, however, it'll be my winter and gravel ride. love the ride and fit. 

the reach was short for a 57, measured it to be 1/2" shorter than the Liscio 57. put a 120 stem on it, perfect.


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## trumpetbiker (Oct 9, 2013)

the disc controversy is way overblown, 3 yrs from now all the naysayers will be wishing they had bought a disc ride. volagi just happened to be the pioneers to push specialized and trek into going the extra mile and now they all will push volagi out with their big corporate machines and flavors. 

regardless ---------------- volagi is a great brand, they don't market to racers, they market to smart people who want their ride to go wherever they want to go. even ritchey has added his disc bike into the mix, suggesting its great for general roadies-----------not racers-----------but he recognizes where its all going and 1/2 way there.

more pics of volagis here, anyone? has anyone ridden or bought the ti version?


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## Migen21 (Oct 28, 2014)

trumpetbiker said:


> more pics of volagis here, anyone? has anyone ridden or bought the ti version?




Sorry about the thread dredge. I just stumbled on this thread looking for something else.

I have owned a 60cm Ti Viaje since last March, and I absolutely love it. I ordered the frameset through my LBS, and had them build it up for me.

It was originally Mechanical Ultegra 6800 (shown in the pic) but has since been converted to Ui2. I did the Ui2 upgrade myself, and had to swap the bottom bracket (to a Enduro TorqTite PF30 24mm adapter) because the original BB did not have enough clearance for the Di2 wires.

Drivetrain is Ultegra 50/34, 175mm cranks and an Ultegra 11sp 11-28 cassette.

Ritchey carbon bars and seatpost, Ritchey WCS stem, and Selle Italia Gel Flow saddle.

TRP Hy/Rd brakes.

Wheels are HED Belgium C2+ on Chris King R45D hubs. Ritchey Ti skewers. 

This picture shows Shwalbe Marathon Plus tires, but I normally run 28c Conti GP 4 Seasons for road/commuting. I also have a set of 35c Clement XPLOR USH that I use for occasional gravel/dirt/mud road rides. I also have a set of portland fenders and a lightweight aluminum rear rack with a set of Ortieb Sport Roller (formerly called Front roller) I can throw on. 

It has about 1200 miles on it so far (I missed quite a bit of riding last summer due to a shoulder injury). It's as utilitarian as any bike can be. It climbs well, descends well, and is comfortable on all-day rides. It's really all I can ask for for an every day bike. 

It's primary use so far has been my 30 mile round trip, moderately hilly work commute and a handful of long weekend rides. I plan to use it for some credit card touring this summer, once I've fully recovered from my shoulder injury and the Doc gives the go-ahead.


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## trumpetbiker (Oct 9, 2013)

Migen21 said:


> Sorry about the thread dredge. I just stumbled on this thread looking for something else.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


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## steel rider (Oct 24, 2003)

I just stumbled on my old thread, which is interesting. Sadly my first and last foray into non metal bikes has come to an end. 2 weeks before an event (Levi's GF) I found there MAY be a crack in the frame and the lover right seat stay. With a relatively quick (and wise in my opinion) decision I switched to a steel Gunnar disc frame. It's heavier but I still recorded by far my best LGF time on the bike while looking almost retro. It rides like buttah.
That being said I'm still sitting on the Volagi frame/fork with stem, bars, crankset. Calfee says about $400 to fix w/o paint assuming it's cracked. They'd have to sand it down and see if it's more than paint damage. Heck I can do that. 
I can try DIY carbon repair and keep it, but I don't have a need for the Volagi since my "lightweight" steel build is in process and the only other bike I'd want is a cross rig. I'm wondering if it's sellable after the repair - the way I told my wife it would be  - and for how much. 
Thoughts?


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## trumpetbiker (Oct 9, 2013)

steel rider said:


> I just stumbled on my old thread, which is interesting. Sadly my first and last foray into non metal bikes has come to an end. 2 weeks before an event (Levi's GF) I found there MAY be a crack in the frame and the lover right seat stay. With a relatively quick (and wise in my opinion) decision I switched to a steel Gunnar disc frame. It's heavier but I still recorded by far my best LGF time on the bike while looking almost retro. It rides like buttah.
> That being said I'm still sitting on the Volagi frame/fork with stem, bars, crankset. Calfee says about $400 to fix w/o paint assuming it's cracked. They'd have to sand it down and see if it's more than paint damage. Heck I can do that.
> I can try DIY carbon repair and keep it, but I don't have a need for the Volagi since my "lightweight" steel build is in process and the only other bike I'd want is a cross rig. I'm wondering if it's sellable after the repair - the way I told my wife it would be  - and for how much.
> Thoughts?





steel rider said:


> I just stumbled on my old thread, which is interesting. Sadly my first and last foray into non metal bikes has come to an end. 2 weeks before an event (Levi's GF) I found there MAY be a crack in the frame and the lover right seat stay. With a relatively quick (and wise in my opinion) decision I switched to a steel Gunnar disc frame. It's heavier but I still recorded by far my best LGF time on the bike while looking almost retro. It rides like buttah.
> That being said I'm still sitting on the Volagi frame/fork with stem, bars, crankset. Calfee says about $400 to fix w/o paint assuming it's cracked. They'd have to sand it down and see if it's more than paint damage. Heck I can do that.
> I can try DIY carbon repair and keep it, but I don't have a need for the Volagi since my "lightweight" steel build is in process and the only other bike I'd want is a cross rig. I'm wondering if it's sellable after the repair - the way I told my wife it would be  - and for how much.
> Thoughts?



I sold my Liscio a couple of years ago, kept my steel Volagi Viaji, because I liked steel. since I've sold it, I've heard of others with the CF version with cracks ---------- infrequent as they are.

since the company has shut its doors, there are no warrantees out there anymore, no replacement frames from Robert Choi.

the issue you are asking is should you fix and sell. I think purchasing a used CF frame from any manufacturer is risky anyway, and many won't do it. when the frame is advertised as a repaired frame, and in good faith you should ALWAYS disclose that (legally, if you don't and the person breaks the frame and finds out it was repaired without their knowledge, you are liable, big $$ damages) even if by Calfee, most will not pay what you feel its worth and you may not get the money back you put into the repair. if you DIYS with a kit, NO ONE will purchase it that plans on using it, and will only buy for pennies on the dollar. paint, resell, blame the repair on you if it breaks with the next guy.

that's the expensive and litigation world we live in.

best thing to do at this point is fix to use only, or hang it on the wall. steel and Ti frames get "retired" sometimes as well, because they are too costly to fix based on eventual resale value. the only time it makes sense to fix a frame like this one is if you plan on riding it a lot longer.

your Gunnar is actually a pretty damn nice ride, write off the Volagi and hang it up, stay with "metal".


my opinion, and worth what you paid for that opinion!!


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## steel rider (Oct 24, 2003)

You are probably right. I did find a place near Los Gatos that may scan it for $100. If that’s true and it turns out to not be cracked I can sell. If it’s cracked I doubt anyone would buy even after a fix. I could DIY and maybe use for a cross or street ride, but realistically it would just hang in the garage for a long long time. 
That’d be a shame on many levels. I hate to see such waste.


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## Migen21 (Oct 28, 2014)

Robert designed a really nice suite of bikes. It's sad what happened to the company after his accident. I was hoping he would be able to bootstrap it and get it going again.

My Ti Viaje is still going strong. I'll never get rid of it, at least not unless the frame fails for some reason.

Sadly, there probably isn't much value in a repaired frame made by a company who out of business.

I personally wouldn't ever sell a repaired frame, or one that was suspect for fear someone may injure themselves on it. 

I think there was a n ebay auction a few months back where someone got possession of a bunch of warranty return carbon Volagi frames and tried to sell them on Ebay in bulk. Robert never responded to the legitimacy of the auction, but Barley Foresman (co-designer of the bikes) came out and said they were supposed to have gone to a landfill, so it wasn't anyone affiliated with the company that was selling them - at least not in an official capacity.

Edit to add: If it were me, I'd probably invest in repairing the bike and keep it as a backup/all weather bike. For me, the only other option is to trash it.


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## steel rider (Oct 24, 2003)

Yes it is sad. I really like the idea of supporting a boutique company but sometimes things like this happen I guess. 
I plan to repair it myself if it is indeed cracked, then slowly accumulate used parts to make it an around town bike - perhaps sans disc. Not ideal but that’s OK. I’ll have a great story, a great Gunnar all road bike, and a great Taylor custom. Not bad.


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## harryman (Nov 14, 2014)

I still ride my Liscio, it's a nice bike. The unfortunate fact is that while Volagi was a leader in the disc/endurance market, they've long been since passed by, even before Roberts accident, there are more and in many cases, better choices out there these days. 

If you feel confident the frame is solid after the repair, you could always hand it off to someone in need of an upgrade.


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