# Tour of Flanders



## velodog (Sep 26, 2007)

Legends of the Tour


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## atpjunkie (Mar 23, 2002)

Koppenburg is muddy on the recon rides. People may be walking.

thx for posting


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## spdntrxi (Jul 25, 2013)

I'll be waking up early and watching


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## El Scorcho (Dec 14, 2005)

Damn that was an impressive win.


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## dnice (Jul 12, 2012)

Nothing better than seeing a great rider win with class. Congratulations, well deserved. The Sagan era is upon us, no question about it. Chapeau to Cancellara and VanMarcke, both showed immense effort, and Vanmarcke not contesting the sprint.:thumbsup:


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## Cinelli 82220 (Dec 2, 2010)

Yes it was classy of Vanmarcke, but Cancellara did almost all the work. 
Amazing Sagan could ride away from the two of them. 
He is really working on his aero tuck, once again he spent a lot of time in Obree's superman position. 

Also noted it looked like a LOT less motorcycles!


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## The Weasel (Jul 20, 2006)

Cancellara poo-pooing VanMarcke at the end...classless.


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## Rashadabd (Sep 17, 2011)

Fantastic win. I loved the TT away from the group and the chase. Too bad Van Marcke was out of gas or they might have made more of a fight of it. Great win by a great racer in the end though. His critics have officially been silenced I presume.


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## dnice (Jul 12, 2012)

Rashadabd said:


> Fantastic win. I loved the TT away from the group and the chase. Too bad Van Marcke was out of gas or they might have made more of a fight of it. Great win by a greaat racer in the end though. *His critics have officially been silenced I presume*.


so what have you heard from tinkoff's twitter feed? :blush2:


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## atpjunkie (Mar 23, 2002)

Sagan made smart moves dropping top rivals and adding tome @ all key moments
Then got to ride solo with 2 chasing. Heckuva ride for Spartacus but he couldn't close that gap. Nice that Van Marcke having been along mostly for the ride didn't contest the sprint. I don't know if Fabian was poo pooing, thanking or just checking


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## velodog (Sep 26, 2007)

Sagan is a beast, but not the only one today, there was also Armitstead.

Two rainbow jerseys on the top step.

View attachment 313406


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## Rashadabd (Sep 17, 2011)

velodog said:


> Sagan is a beast, but not the only one today, there was also Armitstead.
> 
> Two rainbow jerseys on the top step.


True dat, she's the real deal as well. Kicking hind parts all over the place!


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## MG537 (Jul 25, 2006)

The Weasel said:


> Cancellara poo-pooing VanMarcke at the end...classless.


When did that happen? I must have missed it.


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## atpjunkie (Mar 23, 2002)

MG537 said:


> When did that happen? I must have missed it.


he looked behind and waved his hand. Didn't look like a pooh pooh to me


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## 50x25 (Aug 25, 2015)

I love his comment post race, "Nobody want's to work with me, it's a always better to drop everybody..."

One of the most impressive wins I've seen


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## Cinelli 82220 (Dec 2, 2010)

atpjunkie said:


> he looked behind and waved his hand. Didn't look like a pooh pooh to me


At the finish? Cancellara was waving to the crowds, he is very popular in Flanders and this was his last go at the Tour of Flanders.

Earlier he was waving for Sep vanWheelsucker to come through. To no avail.


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## 32and3cross (Feb 28, 2005)

Cinelli 82220 said:


> At the finish? Cancellara was waving to the crowds, he is very popular in Flanders and this was his last go at the Tour of Flanders.
> 
> Earlier he was waving for Sep vanWheelsucker to come through. To no avail.


He was waving at Sep for being classy enough to not sprint him for second as it was his last Ronde. Sep did what work he could after being in a break earlier and cranking when Sagan punched it up the Paterburg. As far as wheelsucking that a pretty shallow read of what was happening there Sep was pulling through when he could.


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## El Scorcho (Dec 14, 2005)

Cinelli 82220 said:


> Earlier he was waving for Sep vanWheelsucker to come through. To no avail.


Cancellara, whom I love, has always been the one to try and peer pressure guys to come through. If you were trying to win a race, would you come through knowing Sparticus will probably use you until your done and then ride away to the win?


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## rufus (Feb 3, 2004)

El Scorcho said:


> Cancellara, whom I love, has always been the one to try and peer pressure guys to come through. If you were trying to win a race, would you come through knowing Sparticus will probably use you until your done and then ride away to the win?


He was doing it a lot to Sagan in last week's G-W.


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## dnice (Jul 12, 2012)

By his own admission, Sep was the weakest of the three men in G-W that were pulling to the finish line. The fact is both sep and fabu had good motivation to form an alliance; sep didn't have much to offer however as the gap increased every time he took a pull.


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## atpjunkie (Mar 23, 2002)

Sep took a ride on Fabian's wheel. He pulled when he could but he was the weakest. Since they didn't catch Sagan he pulled up and let Fabian take his last curtain call. Fabian waved a thanks to him in my opinion.


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## JSR (Feb 27, 2006)

atpjunkie said:


> Sep took a ride on Fabian's wheel. He pulled when he could but he was the weakest. Since they didn't catch Sagan he pulled up and let Fabian take his last curtain call. Fabian waved a thanks to him in my opinion.


That's the way I saw it, too.


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## The Weasel (Jul 20, 2006)

atpjunkie said:


> he looked behind and waved his hand. Didn't look like a pooh pooh to me


Yeah, I could very well be wrong. I initially looked at as shooing motion that meant ‘thanks for nothing’.


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## JSR (Feb 27, 2006)

The Weasel said:


> Yeah, I could very well be wrong.


Since this is clearly your first time on the Internet, we'll let slide. 

For future reference, no one is ever wrong. If you think you may have written something that could possibly seem incorrect it is incumbent on you to double down with with outrageous assertions supporting your original point. Feel free to manufacture supporting arguments. Don't hesitate to hurl personal insults at those who challenge your points.

I hope you find this advice helpful, a**hat. 😀😀


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## The Weasel (Jul 20, 2006)

JSR said:


> For future reference, no one is ever wrong..._ more useless drivel_


I did say 'could.' I still think FC thinks in the back of his mind that VanMarcke cost him that victory, when he was just plain beat man to man.

How was that?


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## Fireform (Dec 15, 2005)

32and3cross said:


> He was waving at Sep for being classy enough to not sprint him for second as it was his last Ronde. Sep did what work he could after being in a break earlier and cranking when Sagan punched it up the Paterburg. As far as wheelsucking that a pretty shallow read of what was happening there Sep was pulling through when he could.


^^^^^This. VanMarcke did what he could do, and showed Cancellara respect for delivering him to the podium. Cancellara got outgunned by Sagan, which is amazing, but he was acknowledging Sepp's sitting up, not dissing him.


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## JSR (Feb 27, 2006)

The Weasel said:


> How was that?


Excellent!

The use of "more useless drivel" is wonderful. It's comprehensively dismissive without actually adressing any particular point. Chapeau.


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## deviousalex (Aug 18, 2010)

I think if Cancellara had followed the move with Kwiat & Sagan he would have won. I think he could have dropped Sagan on the Paterberg as he was really strong there. Of course this is just hypothetical, but I think not following that move with be in his head for months. Cancellara was very isolated with only a single team mate left and decided not to go with them. Did he really think the others were going to help him chase down Sagan?


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## AlanE (Jan 22, 2002)

I've always liked Sagan. I'm liking him more and more this year.,


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## velodog (Sep 26, 2007)

deviousalex said:


> I think if Cancellara had followed the move with Kwiat & Sagan he would have won. I think he could have dropped Sagan on the Paterberg as he was really strong there. Of course this is just hypothetical, but I think not following that move with be in his head for months. Cancellara was very isolated with only a single team mate left and decided not to go with them. Did he really think the others were going to help him chase down Sagan?


It sure looks like not going with Sagan is a sure way to lose a race.

I'm a fan of Cancellara, but if he waited thinking that Sagan would get chased down and he would make his move when they caught him, then I'm thinking that he doubted his ability to beat Sagan man to man, *on that day*, and wanted him softened up before he went in for the kill.

But that's just speculation on my part.

Was Cancellara any more isolated than Sagan?


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## deviousalex (Aug 18, 2010)

velodog said:


> Was Cancellara any more isolated than Sagan?


It appeared to be the case. When Sagan bridged up to Kwiat's attack he only had one team mate in that group and Cancellara only had one.


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## velodog (Sep 26, 2007)

deviousalex said:


> It appeared to be the case. When Sagan bridged up to Kwiat's attack he only had one team mate in that group and Cancellara only had one.


They were on equal terms.


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## deviousalex (Aug 18, 2010)

velodog said:


> They were on equal terms.


Ooops yeah that's what I meant to say.


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## RkFast (Dec 11, 2004)

Rashadabd said:


> His critics have officially been silenced I presume.


Have been for over a year now. Even after the Tour and his string of 2nd place finishes.


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## Rashadabd (Sep 17, 2011)

RkFast said:


> Have been for over a year now. Even after the Tour and his string of 2nd place finishes.


Actually, there was still substantial criticism about his failure to win a Monument or major Classic, but that is gone now.


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## velodog (Sep 26, 2007)

Rashadabd said:


> Great win by a great racer in the end though. His critics have officially been silenced I presume.





RkFast said:


> Have been for over a year now. Even after the Tour and his string of 2nd place finishes.





Rashadabd said:


> Actually, there was still substantial criticism about his failure to win a Monument or major Classic, but that is gone now.


Critics don't never shut-up, but their critiques are pretty meaningless with the talent that Sagan possesses.


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## Rashadabd (Sep 17, 2011)

velodog said:


> Critics don't never shut-up, but their critiques are pretty meaningless with the talent that Sagan possesses.


I agree, but whether we like it or not, winning a monument puts you in a different class in some people's eyes.


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## velodog (Sep 26, 2007)

Rashadabd said:


> I agree, but whether we like it or not, winning a monument puts you in a different classin some people's eyes.


I agree, wholeheartedly, but a man ain't 1st loser as often as Sagan has been unless he's going for the win, and not just out on a training ride for whatever's coming up.


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## Rashadabd (Sep 17, 2011)

velodog said:


> I agree, wholeheartedly, but a man ain't 1st loser as often as Sagan has been unless he's going for the win, and not just out on a training ride for whatever's coming up.


Again, I agree with you. I personally think he's great and he, Kwiatkowski, Degenkolb, Bling Matthews, Stybar, and Gerrans are probably my favorite racers. Others seem to be of the opinion that 2nd place isn't a win no matter how you slice it. Van Avermaet (another frequent 2nd place finisher) reached that conclusion himself over the offseason and committed himself to claiming the top step of the podium more often this classics season.  Unfortunately he crashed out before he could make good on it. 

Sagan no longer has to worry about all of that background noise and pressure. He has a Momument on the palmares. That comes with a different set of expectations, but I think they are ones he can handle. 

Tour of Flanders: I'm not happy with second place any more, says Van Avermaet | Cyclingnews.com


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## rufus (Feb 3, 2004)

Rashadabd said:


> I agree, but whether we like it or not, winning a monument puts you in a different class in some people's eyes.


Sure, but anyone with an ounce of common sense knows it was only gonna be a matter of time. What is he, still only 25? Anyone looking at his results so far, and whining cause he's finished second so much, or hasn't won a major classic is just being a douchnozzle.


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## velodog (Sep 26, 2007)

Rashadabd said:


> Fantastic win. I loved the TT away from the group and the chase. Too bad Van Marcke was out of gas or they might have made more of a fight of it. Great win by a great racer in the end though. His critics have officially been silenced I presume.





RkFast said:


> Have been for over a year now. Even after the Tour and his string of 2nd place finishes.





rufus said:


> Sure, but anyone with an ounce of common sense knows it was only gonna be a matter of time. What is he, still only 25? Anyone looking at his results so far, and whining cause he's finished second so much, or hasn't won a major classic is just being a douchnozzle.


Not to put to fine of a point on it.


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## Rashadabd (Sep 17, 2011)

velodog said:


> Not to put to fine of a point on it.


You guys might not be aware, but some of the criticism was coming from his team owner and pretty much every major media outlet. They kept wondering and talking about when or if he would ever win a big classics race or monument. Now, you two might have been able to foresee that he was destined to win, but lots of others were asking whether he would ever live up to his potential (i.e. a future Cancellara or Boonen). All I am saying is that those questions have basically been laid to rest at this point.


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## Rashadabd (Sep 17, 2011)

Here's some of the discourse that has been going on about whether Sagan would ever develop into a a king of the classics:

Sagan short on words and results ahead of classics - VeloNews.com

CyclingQuotes.com Sagan finally gets his first classics victory

Tinkov keen to reduce Sagan's contract after poor spring | Cyclingnews.com

Sagan vows to race with passion as he targets Classics and Tour de France once more | Cyclingnews.com

Peter Sagan: expectation to 'win one or two' Classics - Cycling Weekly

Tinkov vows tighter checkbook following Sagan saga - VeloNews.com

inCycle video: Sagan on Oleg Tinkov and winning a Classic | Cyclingnews.com

Tinkov: If Sagan doesn?t win two or three great Classics, I?ll be upset?but I won?t kill him | CyclingTips

Oleg Tinkov looking to cut Peter Sagan's salary after poor form - Cycling Weekly

I think it was clear to everyone that he had the potential to accomplish great things in the classics, but some were starting to question whether he would live up to that potential. That might not have been fair, but the question was certainly asked by a number of people, including Tinkoff. I am happy he proved his doubters wrong and I am extremely impressed with how he has matured in the last couple of years. He's the real deal and I look forward to seeing all that he accomplishes in the future.


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## velodog (Sep 26, 2007)

Rashadabd said:


> Here's some of the discourse that has been going on about whether Sagan would ever develop into a a king of the classics:
> 
> Sagan short on words and results ahead of classics - VeloNews.com
> 
> ...


The media puts everything under the microscope, they need to sell a product which is their opinions. And Tinkov, well he spent a pile of money and now wants it paid back, with interest.

And Sagan, he's young and enjoying life while doing a fine job on the bicycle. He may not be articulate or boastful enough for a good sound bite, but when he's on the bike there's no denying that he's going to do some big stuff.


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## atpjunkie (Mar 23, 2002)

classics riders need a few years and a few races before they come into their own
They are harder to win than GTs they are an all or nothing game. Deciding whether to wait or go can be the entire race (either way) and being the strongest doesn't guarantee victory. Ask Hincapie, ask Boonen, sometimes you need some help and some luck.


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## rufus (Feb 3, 2004)

Rashadabd said:


> You guys might not be aware, but some of the criticism was coming from his team owner and pretty much every major media outlet. They kept wondering and talking about when or if he would ever win a big classics race or monument. Now, you two might have been able to foresee that he was destined to win, but lots of others were asking whether he would ever live up to his potential (i.e. a future Cancellara or Boonen). All I am saying is that those questions have basically been laid to rest at this point.


As I said, douchnozzles.


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## atpjunkie (Mar 23, 2002)

and again this illustrates how much harder it is to win monuments than tour jerseys


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## Rashadabd (Sep 17, 2011)

atpjunkie said:


> and again this illustrates how much harder it is to win monuments than tour jerseys


I am with you all day on that.


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## PBL450 (Apr 12, 2014)

Rashadabd said:


> I am with you all day on that.


Absolutely! And your parents have a monstrously huge impact on the type of races you will excel at... The biggest impact. The ideal tour champ is genetically very different than a classics winner. In most cases.


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## atpjunkie (Mar 23, 2002)

PBL450 said:


> Absolutely! And your parents have a monstrously huge impact on the type of races you will excel at... The biggest impact. The ideal tour champ is genetically very different than a classics winner. In most cases.


Hell a classics winner from the 1st 2 weeks in April is different from the a classics winner of the second 2 weeks. 
Merckx was one of the few who could do well at P-R and Flanders and win @ Liege. Roger did, Rik did it, Hinault and Bartali was the last.


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## velodog (Sep 26, 2007)

So who's gonna win Sunday? I just found out that I need to crawl out of bed at 3:30am to watch it live.

Man, I sure would like to see Sagan go home with the win.

But on another note, I've read that if there's rain some of the Pave will be avoided because the stones get muddy and slippery. WTF.

Am I wrong, or is Boonen the only guy out there that has ridden P-R in the wet. Not concerned with portions that have been ridden during that race in July.


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## atpjunkie (Mar 23, 2002)

velodog said:


> So who's gonna win Sunday? I just found out that I need to crawl out of bed at 3:30am to watch it live.
> 
> Man, I sure would like to see Sagan go home with the win.
> 
> ...


They can't pull the pave if it is wet, that is an integral part of the race. That would be such a BS move


I hope Tom or Fabian gets one more. Sagan has years ahead of himself.


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## velodog (Sep 26, 2007)

atpjunkie said:


> They can't pull the pave if it is wet, that is an integral part of the race. That would be such a BS move
> 
> 
> I hope Tom or Fabian gets one more. Sagan has years ahead of himself.


It'd be good to see either one of those two win, but Flanders and Paris-Roubaix while wearing the Rainbow Jersey, Man-o-Man. 

PS...the race made the funnys(Frazz)


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## Rashadabd (Sep 17, 2011)

atpjunkie said:


> They can't pull the pave if it is wet, that is an integral part of the race. That would be such a BS move
> 
> 
> I hope Tom or Fabian gets one more. Sagan has years ahead of himself.


I am hoping to at least see this Boonen tomorrow. If he can basically match what Cancellara is doing this Spring, I am satisfied. He's one of the best to ever ride a cobbled road, period. (Boonen attacks at about 1:11:00)


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## velodog (Sep 26, 2007)

This photo reminds me of the attack to be 1st onto the stones


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## atpjunkie (Mar 23, 2002)

Rashadabd said:


> I am hoping to at least see this Boonen tomorrow. If he can basically match what Cancellara is doing this Spring, I am satisfied. He's one of the best to ever ride a cobbled road, period. (Boonen attacks at about 1:11:00)


right now Boonen's only compatriot is Roger @ 4 wins. If Tom wins tomorrow he will have the most.


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