# Training Zones



## Srode (Aug 19, 2012)

So should I be using % reserve from Kavorkian or % of Max HR to determine training zones?


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## Alex_Simmons/RST (Jan 12, 2008)

Srode said:


> So should I be using % reserve from Kavorkian or % of Max HR to determine training zones?


What are you training for?

Most training "zones" based on HR have so much slop in them it really doesn't matter.


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## robdamanii (Feb 13, 2006)

If you're training "Kavorkian" zones, you might have a problem.

Karvonen, OTOH might be mildly more useful.


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## Srode (Aug 19, 2012)

Yes, I should have said Karvonen  

I've been reading many of the coaching threads and seet lots of discussion about base building and intervals and it occurred to me I should probably be riding in a more purposeful way to increase my speed and endurance (I'm not training for any events). I really don't spend much time in zones 1 and 2 using the MHR method so I am thinking I should spend more time in this area while riding to build base since I am a newer rider. The zone ranges comparing the two methods, Karvonen zone 1 and 2 are zone 2 and 3 in the MHR method. 

With Karvonen the upper end of zone 2 for me is 141, and for the MHR method it's 127 - so zone 2 becomes zone 3, so I thought if I am going to target base building I should know which method to use. Maybe I am over thinking it and should just ride and forget about targeting base building and just ride at varying HRs and stay focussed more on saddle time and distance?

Norrmally rides are 25 to 30 miles, averaging a little bit over 100 miles a week. I do throw in some intervals (hills or 10-20 minute higher HR on flats) in on half of the rides. 56 years old, 200lbs, 6'1"


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## robdamanii (Feb 13, 2006)

Generally, I don't buy into the "long slow distance" theory of training. At the end of the day, doing weeks and weeks of "base building" in Z2 ends up being little more than junk miles. 

A day per week (two max) of aerobic work during base, interspersed with technique driven workouts and higher intensity work focusing on your weaknesses will bring changes just as quickly in less time. Maybe even more change, depending on your level.


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## Frankinnj (Feb 8, 2009)

If you want to establish more accurate training zones my suggestion would be to do an lactate threshold test. Find a 10 mile flat route, even if you have go around in a circle or square. You are going to ride this 10 miles as fast as you can. Hit the lap key on your monitor when you start and then 10 minutes in hit the lap key again. When you finish the course hit the lap key again. When you get home and our on the computer take your average heart rate from the 10 minute mark until the finish. Let say it was 180bpm. 180 would be your LT. To break it down into zones 180/.90=zone 5, 180/.80= zone 4, and so on. Hope this helps.


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## Srode (Aug 19, 2012)

Got it- 1 loop 10 minutes and 10 Miles at max speed and see what the average heart rate is, 10 mile loop, correct? Seems easy enough. 
Thanks!


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## LatvianRider (Sep 14, 2008)

Train in the zones in which you want to excel in. Be specific in your hard days to train that at which you want to excel. Leave it to the easy recovery days to ride easy. Go get a Lactate Threshold test done and then set your HR zones.


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## Ric_Stern/RST (Oct 22, 2004)

LatvianRider said:


> Train in the zones in which you want to excel in. Be specific in your hard days to train that at which you want to excel. Leave it to the easy recovery days to ride easy. Go get a Lactate Threshold test done and then set your HR zones.


Why do you need a lactate threshold test to set your zones? Not only does LT have absolutely nothing to do with HR, it just isn't required to set training zones. 

As Alex points out, there's a ton of slop with HR zones due to a variety of issues that affect HR.

As regards the OP and Karvonnen training zones, it should be borne in mind that if your resting HR was to rise (e.g. you become tired) your HR zones would increase, which is probably the opposite of what you want to happen...

Ric


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## LatvianRider (Sep 14, 2008)

You don't need a lactate test however without being assumptive about what the original poster has in terms of training equipment, having a lactate test done at a reputable sports clinic will get him not only a lactate threshold set but also HR zones and power zones and then he can do with them what he will.


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## Ric_Stern/RST (Oct 22, 2004)

Sure, i have no idea what equipment the poster has. however, my point is why do you need a lactate threshold test?

1) lactate threshold has nothing to do with HR. LT is defined as the work rate required to elicit a 1 mmol/L increase in lactate over exercise baseline level (so the work rate that elicits 2.XXX mmol/L) or the work rate that elicits a lactate of 2.5 mmol/L. These intensities are pretty low, and for a fit cyclist could be maintained for about 3 hrs. they're about 10% less power than FTP
2) HR zones and power zones can be perfectly worked out from something far less invasive than having blood drawn from e.g. a finger tip capillary. i've no idea why any athlete would need lactate testing (that's not to say i don't think lactate testing has it's place, because i do, but i'd limit it to actual research not for coaching).
cheers
ric


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## LatvianRider (Sep 14, 2008)

Each coach has there own protocol. From what I have learned there is a place for it in coaching. I will leave you to your own opinion.
Best


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## robdamanii (Feb 13, 2006)

OP would probably be better served using FTP as his training base, but I'm guessing he doesn't have a power meter.


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## Srode (Aug 19, 2012)

I would love to have a power meter on the bike, unfortunately I do not. A friend I have ridden with has one and I can certainly see how this would be a great advantage for training and hard riding as well. I appears to be a rather large investment so probably not in the near future unless I hit a plateau that this would help me overcome.

I did switch my zones over to Karvonen and they seem much more appropriate based on review of data from my rides going hard for extended periods so am using that until I get to do the 10 mile flats full throttle ride.


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## Alex_Simmons/RST (Jan 12, 2008)

LatvianRider said:


> You don't need a lactate test however without being assumptive about what the original poster has in terms of training equipment, having a lactate test done at a reputable sports clinic will get him not only a lactate threshold set but also HR zones and power zones and then he can do with them what he will.


What it will do is leave him a few $ poorer and none the wiser, when the OP could simply do a TT or an effort to elicit max HR, and determine HR training zones from one of those.

If you do have a power meter, then blood lactate testing is redundant in any case.


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