# removing cranks from a "vintage" road bike



## iridebikes816 (May 4, 2012)

Like the title says. I just picked an older road bike. It is a single speed project and I am stripping it down so I can paint it. I didn't have a lot of time tonight to work on it, I got it most of the way down. I couldn't get the crank arms off. Is there a special trick?


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## iridebikes816 (May 4, 2012)

I guess my post count isn't high enough for me to post my pictures.


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## iridebikes816 (May 4, 2012)

Its a peugeot..


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## iridebikes816 (May 4, 2012)




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## AndrwSwitch (May 28, 2009)

Cottered cranks. Eew.

Hammer.

Make sure the bottom bracket shell has non-weird threading before you put more trouble into the bike.

There are some options if it has weird threading. Since it's an attractive bike, my favorite is EBay. Just be honest about whatever you find out about the bottom bracket shell.


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## iridebikes816 (May 4, 2012)

I will have more time to mess with it tomorrow. I couldn't get the cotter pin out. I will have to thread the nut on and get out the hammer. 

Whats the difference between "non-weird" and "weird" threading. Sorry im a noob with road/vintage road bikes.


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## AndrwSwitch (May 28, 2009)

Here's a list of sizes.

http://sheldonbrown.com/gloss_bo-z.html#bottom

Bookmark the site. He's a great resource for older bikes.

Non-weird is English threaded - the first one on the list. Anything else is weird. It's easy to find bottom brackets for Italian threaded shells, and significantly less easy to find anything for French.


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## iridebikes816 (May 4, 2012)

I will check it out. I don't plan on replacing. I just want to remove them so I can repack and paint my frame.


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## logbiter (Sep 14, 2005)

check out sheldon's pages on cottered cranks. Use a mallet or hammer w/ block of wood(or a dowel/broomstick handle/wedge of wood) to get the crank arm off the bottom bracket spindle.


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## JCavilia (Sep 12, 2005)

iridebikes816 said:


> I will check it out. I don't plan on replacing. I just want to remove them so I can repack and paint my frame.


It might be worth looking for a more modern crank (square taper) if you can find a bottom bracket to fit your frame -- depending on how old it is, it may have English threading, which is easy. As someone noted, if it's French threading that's harder to find.

Re-assembling cottered cranks is as big a headache as removing them. It is very likely that you will destroy (I mean that literally) the cotter pins in the removal process. Which then means buying replacement pins, which usually have to be ground down to fit. I'd seriously consider masking off the cranks to do your paint job, if the bottom bracket is functioning well now.

Which model Peugeot is it? Do you know how old?


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## rs3o (Jan 22, 2004)

AndrwSwitch said:


> Cottered cranks. Eew.


That's hilarious. I was going to say exactly the same thing. Cottered cranks are a huge PITA. As others have alluded to, the pins are not reusable so you'll need new ones. The ones I've gotten from J&B have been absolute crap and I don't know any other sources. A new BB and crank would a worthwhile investment. Hope it's not French threading....


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## foto (Feb 7, 2005)

Don't take the crank off.


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## foto (Feb 7, 2005)

If you really want to put money into that thing, velo orange makes good quality cartridge bottom brackets with french threads for the same price as a shimano u-whatever.

If it were me, I would try to keep that one as cheap as possible. You wont get much cash for it, its best value will be as a cheap project, fun play bike/lock up bar beater, etc.


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## velodog (Sep 26, 2007)

Before you knock out the cotter with a hammer make sure you support the crankarm with a block of wood so you're not using the bearings for support.


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## Kerry Irons (Feb 25, 2002)

*French threads*



iridebikes816 said:


> Its a peugeot..


A Peugeot of that age with cottered cranks has a high probability of having French threads. The BB shell diameter is 35 mm and the threads are 1 mm pitch (marked 35 x 1 but unfortunately those low end bikes seldom had any markings on the BB cups). If you wanted to make the bike a little more "long term serviceable" you could have the BB shell tapped for Italian threads, but frankly that bike is not worth the $$. Here's hoping you can deal with the cottered cranks as they sit, but likely they are frozen in place. I'm thinking "wall sculpture" or "sawed in half and made into a bar stool."


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## wim (Feb 28, 2005)

Kerry Irons said:


> Here's hoping you can deal with the cottered cranks as they sit, but likely they are frozen in place.


It may not be as bad as all that. Once the cotter is removed, the cranks usually just slide off because they're not press-fit onto the spindle. In fact, most people unfamiliar with cottered cranks are amazed how loose the crank-to-spindle fit is compared to square taper.


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## Kerry Irons (Feb 25, 2002)

*Bad as all that*



wim said:


> It may not be as bad as all that. Once the cotter is removed, the cranks usually just slide off because they're not press-fit onto the spindle. In fact, most people unfamiliar with cottered cranks are amazed how loose the crank-to-spindle fit is compared to square taper.


If you are a knowledgeable mechanic who has dealt with cottered cranks and the cotters have not rusted in place or been damaged and you have the proper tools for removing these old BB cups (lock ring spanner) then you will have no problems. If any one of the links in this chain breaks, then . . .


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## iridebikes816 (May 4, 2012)

I got the got the cranks off and in the process of painting.

How do I know if I have French or English threads?

I would like to run a single chain ring up front, and a bmx freewheel in the rear. How do I get the chain line right. I took the maillard freewheel off and put on a bmx freewheel and its about a half inch off.


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## foto (Feb 7, 2005)

iridebikes816 said:


> I got the got the cranks off and in the process of painting.
> 
> How do I know if I have French or English threads?
> 
> I would like to run a single chain ring up front, and a bmx freewheel in the rear. How do I get the chain line right. I took the maillard freewheel off and put on a bmx freewheel and its about a half inch off.


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## foto (Feb 7, 2005)

If you must have a single chainring, unscrew those bolts and take off the inner chainring. But:

That big ring will be a beast to pedal. If you want to get different gearing in the front you will need a new crank, and bottom bracket. With 99.999% certainty that thing has a french bottom bracket, you can get em online at veloorange. If you don't have a used crank laying around, or easy access to one, you are looking at >$150.

You adjust the chainline by rearranging the spacers on the axle to move the hub over in the frame, and then redishing the wheel to compensate. Be careful adding tension to old wheels, because sometimes the go pop.

What's your budget for this project?


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## iridebikes816 (May 4, 2012)

I don't want to spend much on this bike. I'm in it for $80 right now. I have a lot of spare parts laying around im going to to be putting on.

I will probably just leave it set up like it is, although I think a single chain ring and freewheel looks so much cleaner.


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## wim (Feb 28, 2005)

Kerry Irons said:


> If you are a knowledgeable mechanic who has dealt with cottered cranks and the cotters have not rusted in place or been damaged and you have the proper tools for removing these old BB cups (lock ring spanner) then you will have no problems. If any one of the links in this chain breaks, then . . .


Agree. My optimism was based on the assumption that the OP doesn't really want to touch the BB and that the crank is as pristine as it looks in the photos.


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## iridebikes816 (May 4, 2012)

Got everything put together and went for a little ride. I noticed the crank arm on the left "slipping", would new cotters fix this?


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## AndrwSwitch (May 28, 2009)

Cotter pins are generally seen as disposable, at least as I understand it. Did you try to reuse the old ones?

IIRC, once a crank arm with that standard starts moving around, it gets damaged, like with square taper cranks. But, double-check me. It may just destroy the cotter pins.

Damaging the cotter pins on a bike I tried to repurpose as a commuter a few years ago was what really put the nail in the coffin. I read up on the standard and decided it was stupid. There's a used bike shop near me that also carries components, so I figured I'd get some perfectly good road cranks, a new bottom bracket of the appropriate standard, and that would be one less obsolete and broken aspect of the bike. I had trouble getting the bottom bracket cups out, actually only got one out in the end, but I was able to figure out that the threads weren't reversed on the drive side. I stripped the bike and shoved the frame in my recycle bin. Bike frames are just small enough. 

I found out later that there are bottom brackets designed to go in damaged or oddly threaded shells. In retrospect, it's just as well that it was too late. That bike was a money trap, and it was never a good bike. Yours is at least a little nicer. Anyway, here's a link.

http://store.velo-orange.com/index....ets/grand-cru-threadless-bottom-brackets.html

These are on other sites for about $40 and there's a cheaper brand that makes something similar for $20ish. My instinct is that if you feel the bike is still worth hanging onto, the V-O bottom bracket may be the better option. I read up on other threadless BBs a little bit and it sounds like many didn't work very well.

Use your judgement. You'd still need a crank; for the cost of a new (or not new, really) crank and this BB, you could pick up a bike from the '80s, with English threading.

I love foto's pic. This sort of thing is why I've decided that the best bang-for-the-buck road bikes are probably those of the early- to mid-90s, and coming with an 8-speed cassette. While older bikes can ride great....


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## iridebikes816 (May 4, 2012)

I reused the old cotters. I don't want to drop a lot of coin on this bike. Honestly it probably won't see a lot of miles. I'll try a new set of cotters. If that doesn't help I'll look into the V O.


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## JCavilia (Sep 12, 2005)

iridebikes816 said:


> Got everything put together and went for a little ride. I noticed the crank arm on the left "slipping", would new cotters fix this?


Usually it's the threaded end of the cotter that gets wrecked in removal, necessitating replacement. If you somehow managed to get them off without that happening, and the threads are good enough to hold the nut, then the looseness probably means you didn't pound them in hard enough when you replaced them. This is common. 

Set up the blocks and supports the way you did when you pounded them out, except reversed, so you pound on the wide end. Then hit that sucker with a big hammer. Then tighten the nut.


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## JCavilia (Sep 12, 2005)

iridebikes816 said:


> I reused the old cotters. I don't want to drop a lot of coin on this bike. Honestly it probably won't see a lot of miles. I'll try a new set of cotters. If that doesn't help I'll look into the V O.


Try one more time to get the old ones to work (see "big hammer" above). New cotters can be a big chore, because you often have to file them down, a lot.


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## iridebikes816 (May 4, 2012)

JCavilia said:


> Try one more time to get the old ones to work (see "big hammer" above). New cotters can be a big chore, because you often have to file them down, a lot.


That's what I did. Felt like I got them tighter but still slipped. Am I doomed? LoL


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## iridebikes816 (May 4, 2012)

Should I get 9mm or 9.5mm cotters?


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## foto (Feb 7, 2005)

iridebikes816 said:


> Should I get 9mm or 9.5mm cotters?


get both, then you will know you might have the right ones.


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## wim (Feb 28, 2005)

*First ride.*



iridebikes816 said:


> I reused the old cotters. I don't want to drop a lot of coin on this bike. Honestly it probably won't see a lot of miles. I'll try a new set of cotters. If that doesn't help I'll look into the V O.


If you do get the crank on tight again, give the non-threaded ends a tap or two with a hammer after the first ride, then re-tighten the nuts just enough for them to be snug against the crank. Pulling the cotter tight with the nut doesn't work—you'll strip the cotter threads.

.


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