# What has happend to De Rosa ??



## nicensleazy (Aug 3, 2008)

Speaking to the owner of my local pro bike shop the other day, he mentioned after many years of stocking and supporting the De Rosa brand, he's now dropping De Rosa from his sales list. He mentioned that this year he had seen a marked increase of customers bringing back their bikes with faults and warranty work. The quality of the paint work appears to be a big thing with owners, easily chips and marks etc. Not to mention the intergrated seat post and other general things. I for one have a big soft spot for De Rosa, but I can see his point, whats the point in stocking a brand if it doesn't sell!


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## ClassicSteel71 (Mar 5, 2009)

Poor asian manufacturing?

Thankfully there are still NOS Primato's around.


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## Duke249 (Apr 4, 2002)

I see it as a company that has run its course. Ugo built the brand, capitalized on the American cycling market's obsession with all things Italian through the 70's, 80's and 90's, and is now watching the downfall as the industry passes him by. 

My guess is that one of two thing will happen: 1) he'll sell the company and the name will be used by others manufacturing bicycles - i.e. Merckx, or 2) the company will just die off like Frejus, Legnano, Motta, Pogliaghi, etc.


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## iyeoh (Jan 6, 2005)

I can't see it being specific to De Rosa. The entire Italian bike industry seems to have succumbed to low cost manufacturing and marketing gimmickry. The Italian bikes are looking more and more like low cost Taiwanese/Chinese bikes, with integrated seat posts and other components. At the very least, it seems to afflict Colnago and Pinarello as well.


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## Duke249 (Apr 4, 2002)

Agreed that its not specific to Derosa, but all of Italian frame mfrs.


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## ClassicSteel71 (Mar 5, 2009)

Duke249 said:


> Agreed that its not specific to Derosa, *but all of Italian frame mfrs*.



Most, not all....


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## Duke249 (Apr 4, 2002)

I'll stick with saying all Italian mfrs are struggling with the original line of thought of the post. That is, that Derosa is a brand that is not stocked, nor purchased by an everyday customer walking into a shop to get a bicycle meant for group rides, training rides, and/or racing. Specialized, Giant, Trek, Cannondale, etc are satisfying that need. 

If customers are wanting something a bit more exotic, then you'll find Orbea, Cervelo, Colnago, Pinarello, etc. Yes, the last two are Italian and they are the two companies that have innovated enough to remain pertinent in today's marketplace. 

As many have discussed, Colnago is now having framesets produced outside Italy to remain competitive, and Pinarello is looking to become almost like an Italian Specialized with road bicycles offered at all price points from very entry level to uber-expensive. 

To me, Pegoretti falls into a different category of connoisseur framesets that are no better, nor no worse than those mfr'd in France, USA, England, Italy, etc. 

Typically, these types of bicycles are going to not be raced, are not going to be stocked by local shops and are going to be very expensive.


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## dnalsaam (Dec 6, 2004)

Not a one of you has even an inkling as to what is happening in the bike world. De Rosa is selling actually more bikes today than it has at perhaps any other time in the last 10 years. De Rosa has no problems selling what they make. Unlike Specialized and Trek, they have not seen a double digit drop in sales. The high end worldwide has lost even more sales and any retailer thinking that this is related to a particular brand is simply ignorant. One local shop told me that they had sold 60 Madones in 2008 and only 12 this last year. Make your own deductions as to what is happening (especially since Lance is once again supporting sales, which wasn't the case in 2008.) With small manufacturers, the production can readily be moved around to markets that are better able to absorb the product.

As far as Orbea and Cervélo being exotics, give me a break! You can't get more cookie cutter than that. Lastly, what is this nonsense about poor Asian production?


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## nicensleazy (Aug 3, 2008)

dnalsaam said:


> Not a one of you has even an inkling as to what is happening in the bike world. De Rosa is selling actually more bikes today than it has at perhaps any other time in the last 10 years. De Rosa has no problems selling what they make. Unlike Specialized and Trek, they have not seen a double digit drop in sales. The high end worldwide has lost even more sales and any retailer thinking that this is related to a particular brand is simply ignorant. One local shop told me that they had sold 60 Madones in 2008 and only 12 this last year. Make your own deductions as to what is happening (especially since Lance is once again supporting sales, which wasn't the case in 2008.) With small manufacturers, the production can readily be moved around to markets that are better able to absorb the product.
> 
> As far as Orbea and Cervélo being exotics, give me a break! You can't get more cookie cutter than that. Lastly, what is this nonsense about poor Asian production?



Ah...you are obviously the font of all knowledge. Well, they may be selling in your part of the woods, but over here in the UK they are not. My dealer has seen a marked increase in customers returning their frames due to faults etc. They can no longer really on the name for sales....they need to back it up with quality, or, people will just go elsewhere.


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## Ride-Fly (Mar 27, 2002)

nicensleazy said:


> Ah...you are obviously the font of all knowledge. Well, they may be selling in your part of the woods, but over here in the UK they are not. My dealer has seen a marked increase in customers returning their frames due to faults etc. They can no longer really on the name for sales....they need to back it up with quality, or, people will just go elsewhere.


I can add to your anecdotal evidence. A LBS in Lake Oswego, OR that stocks the most number of high-end bikes I have ever seen is considering dropping De Rosa next year. The owner says that they just don't sell. Maybe to the De Rosa aficionado, but to the general riding public and even the high-end frame collector, De Rosa is not at the top of the list. BTW, this shop carries (and I don't mean just one or two frames but several models and sizes of each maker): 

Colnago
Pinarello
Bianchi
De Rosa
Pegoretti
Time
Look (dropping them or already dropped them)
Ridley
Merckx
Cannondale
Surley

It is pure bike porn visiting this shop.

I'm with you niceandsleazy, I have a soft spot for the De Rosa name and heritage but the only frames that speak to me are their Neo Primatos. The NP and a Tommasini Tecno are my all time drool worthy lugged Italian steelys!!!


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## Ride-Fly (Mar 27, 2002)

Sorry!


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## smokva (Jul 21, 2004)

Ride-Fly said:


> I'm with you niceandsleazy, I have a soft spot for the De Rosa name and heritage but the only frames that speak to me are their Neo Primatos. The NP and a Tommasini Tecno are my all time drool worthy lugged Italian steelys!!!


Together with Neo Primato I would also add Titanio to that list


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## ClassicSteel71 (Mar 5, 2009)

dnalsaam said:


> *Not a one of you has even an inkling as to what is happening in the bike world. De Rosa is selling actually more bikes today than it has at perhaps any other time in the last 10 years. De Rosa has no problems selling what they make.*


Not one person said they (De Rosa) weren't selling bikes. We said they are going downhill. Read the posts, "Mr. in the know"


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## ClassicSteel71 (Mar 5, 2009)

dnalsaam said:


> *As far as Orbea and Cervélo being exotics, give me a break! *


That was kinda funny.


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## nicensleazy (Aug 3, 2008)

ClassicSteel71 said:


> Not one person said they (De Rosa) weren't selling bikes. We said they are going downhill. Read the posts, "Mr. in the know"



well said !


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## iyeoh (Jan 6, 2005)

I believe that Shanghai Phoenix sells three million bicycles per year with almost no drop in sales because they have close to a monopoly in their localized markets. That's probably 300 times more than De Rosa. Probably none of us have seen one before, let alone ridden those. Does that make those bikes great?

http://www.phoenix.com.cn/phoenixie/page/profile.asp


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## gomango (Aug 30, 2006)

I'll add another DeRosa model to this "desirable" list. The Scattofisso. Both of my kids would love to get their hands on one to try out. They are racing Juniors again next year, and are doing their level best to put the parents in the poor house.


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## nicensleazy (Aug 3, 2008)

The other day, I telephoned 10 cycle dealers to find out who's stocking De Rosa. These dealers are pro shops and stock a wide selection of Italian bikes etc. Not one of them is stocking De Rosa at the moment. One dealer said, " I can't recall when someone last asked for a De Rosa". Only one of the dealers out of the 10 had a De Rosa frame in stock from 08. I have got to say, its bloody sad!


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## Gnarly 928 (Nov 19, 2005)

I think DeRosa just got 'sloppy'. They made a couple of poor bikes. People, myself included, count on getting a really good bike when you pay top dollar for it and you do so because the brand has a fine reputation. Then, when that brand's bikes ride all wobbly and break often, or the paint chips off, it's gonna sour the reputation of the brand. 

Other high-enders haven't blown it, like DeRosa did with some of their recent offerings. Too many stories going around of speedwobbles, broken frames, etc to keep up the DeRosa reputation going. I looked and asked about some of the new bikes (I had a King and still have a Dual that I like a lot) but unlesss they 'revise' their product, they won't see me soon. 

It'd be like buying a Gucci bag for a few thousand bucks only to have the seams come undone and let your Cartier diamond braclet drop out in the elevator of Tiffanie's...Great looking bag, but it doesn't hold the goods...


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## nicensleazy (Aug 3, 2008)

Some good points raised Gnarly 928! Lets hope they get their act together !


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## Fredrico (Jun 15, 2002)

*Sad to hear.*



nicensleazy said:


> Some good points raised Gnarly 928! Lets hope they get their act together !


Back in the late 80s, Branford Bikes came out with an announcement they were dropping DeRosa, too. Seems like some of the frames came in misaligned, and with paint problems. This was allegedly the time Hugo was handing over production to his sons and they were learning the ropes.

Now they're bigger, but still a family business, trying to build for a more general market. Kid's bikes? Women's recreational bikes? Nothing wrong with that. There's a big bike market in Italy to take care of. But the days of one man with a brazing torch, creating one on one masterpieces for pro racers have been over since he laid down the torch in the mid 80s.

Some guys are great builders but not necessarily great businessmen, or they develope business models that disappoint their former bike snob fans. Trek and now Colnago are close to that. DeRosa's production is still smaller, so his mistakes are more noticeable. I'd put the mantle DeRosa once wore onto the shoulders of someone like Dario Pegoretti or Richard Sachs. They still build their bikes like artists, one man with a brazing torch in control of the whole process, as DeRosa once did. With any other material than steel, of course, that control is much harder to achieve.


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## MERAKMAN (Mar 6, 2008)

I'm keeping an open mind on De Rosa's 2010 line up which I really like the look of. Just to add; I've not had a problem with any of my De Rosa frames. Thats not to say I won't, but just thought I'd mention it.


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## nicensleazy (Aug 3, 2008)

I'm looking forward to see the new King frame in the flesh. The new Idol isn't doing anything for me at the moment, but I guess you never really know until you see it, feel it and ride it!
What I like about De Rosa and Colnago is that these frames are made in Italy, which is important to me. Looking at the new Dogma frame, I just think having been made in the far east looses some of that Italian feeling!


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## MERAKMAN (Mar 6, 2008)

I agree, though the Dogma looks the dogs dangles! I love the new Idol and Merak. If they were woman, they'd be flippin sexy ass ones!


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## Gnarly 928 (Nov 19, 2005)

MERAKMAN said:


> I agree, though the Dogma looks the dogs dangles! I love the new Idol and Merak. If they were woman, they'd be flippin sexy ass ones!


 Yah, Sexy Ass bikes, the new DeRosas...but they gotta work to +work+ for me. I think owning something that is really pretty and that cost top dollar is worth while, if it delivers. I like pretty bikes but not enough to buy one just to hang on my wall. 

I put up with the slightly twitchy front end on my Dual because it climbed well and I can deal with the feeling that the bike might go 'speed-wobble' any second...my old '90s racer steel bike was like that. The Dual never has done the Death Wobble..my steely did. The King? That one was an especially purty bike but pretty mundane in it's ride..Competant but not outstanding in any way other than perhaps a bit more comfortable than most. But to choose a new DeRosa now I would have to forget all the posts I read about broken this, faded that, not so enthusiastic responses from Italy or the US Distributors.

It'd be like marrying that gal, the recent Miss America...Carrie something...Pretty but silly and all tarted-up without any substance...

Glad I own an older one...I'll wait on my next new one till they get their act back together.


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## duboisdeflute (Sep 10, 2009)

Hi, so First I would like to buy a neo primato ,but after read ,I don´t know. someone know if Gios still in business or not?
thank´s


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## nicensleazy (Aug 3, 2008)

I'm very interested in the new King frame. I have even had a dream about it, so thats a good sign. I just have a big soft spot for De Rosa, I don't know why, but there you go. I did look at the new Dogma, but its just to 'Bling' for me, plus its not made in Italy. I think the King will be a great partner for my Colnago EPS!


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## gomango (Aug 30, 2006)

Go ahead and buy the Neo Primato new or used. You will never be disappointed. Gios makes a nice frame set as well, but is not a DeRosa.










We visited DeRosa on the way to Volterra, Italy in August. Yes, my wife and I are big fans. I know very little about their carbon frames, but I do know I love riding their steel bikes. My Professional SLX is so comfortable, yet so responsive in our group training rides.

Oh, and try to make yours red if possible.


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## Fredrico (Jun 15, 2002)

*Couldn't agree with you more.*



gomango said:


> Go ahead and buy the Neo Primato new or used. You will never be disappointed. Gios makes a nice frame set as well, but is not a DeRosa.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


the small high end Italian builders have traditionally downplayed finishing, decals, paint, focussing instead on materials and design, for which they are famous.

DeRosa's mastery of steel survives in the Primato, perfecting a ride quality, a personality, from what I've been reading, much like Pegoretti, for one. It's the ability to make a bike that can do eveything well: all day stage racing, climbing, descending, sprinting with the best of them. Long top tube for comfort, steep headtube for quick directional response, ribbing around the bb lug and chainstays for efficient power transmission, and geometry that shines brighter the faster the ride.

I've ridden an SL-SLX mix DeRosa for 25 years, around 60,000 miles, and every time I get on it am surprised at how responsive it is, while comfortable and well mannered. It has confidently beckoned me forward like no other bike, at the end of long rides when I'm tiring and ready to quit. With its occassional twitchiness doing track stands at stop light, I'm amazed how confidently it descends at 35-45 mph, no hint of wheel wobble, straight ahead, smoothly leaning into the turns, feeling more like a motorcycle than a 21 pound bike. Alot of that has to do with the brazing, the lugs, but also position of the rider between the two wheels, and the unusually low center of torsional forces created by bb drop. If I don't watch it, I'll scrape pedals on the ground in a turn, but the bike crawls along as if each pedal stroke is pushing the wheels firmly on the ground. There's also no toe-front wheel overlap! Other bikes have some combinations of all these characteristics, but DeRosa's genius is putting them all together. :thumbsup:

Don't know how his designs have changed with carbon tubing, but have heard the results are very similar to what he has done in steel.


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## MERAKMAN (Mar 6, 2008)

Nothing wrong with my '07 Team in ride or build. Same with my '04 Merak Hydro and Dual. Very special bikes. Though I will admit to people like Cervelo, Scott getting very close to the big Italian guys now! Tried a Storck the other day and it was very good too. I hope the '10 De Rosa Merak and Idol perform..looking forward to seeing them in the flesh..


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## MERAKMAN (Mar 6, 2008)

Fredrico said:


> the small high end Italian builders have traditionally downplayed finishing, decals, paint, focussing instead on materials and design, for which they are famous.
> 
> DeRosa's mastery of steel survives in the Primato, perfecting a ride quality, a personality, from what I've been reading, much like Pegoretti, for one. It's the ability to make a bike that can do eveything well: all day stage racing, climbing, descending, sprinting with the best of them. Long top tube for comfort, steep headtube for quick directional response, ribbing around the bb lug and chainstays for efficient power transmission, and geometry that shines brighter the faster the ride.
> 
> ...


Yes they are very special bikes indeed!


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