# Cramps on inner thighs: thoughts on prevention and how to train?



## genux (Jun 18, 2012)

I wasn't sure which forum this topic was best suited for, so I hope someone can steer me in the right direction.

Short background: 30-year old male, 5'8", mostly sedentary lifestyle for significantly most of his life, picked up cycling in 2013. I was 280 lbs at my peak, lost about 80 lbs of that in a span of 2 years. I was at 195 at the start of the year and still trying to actively lose weight, aiming for 160-175 range. Current body fat (based on BIA) is 27%. Still quite a long ways to go.

Cycling background: mostly club rides; started up with commuting (10-12 miles per day) and 30-40 miles on the weekend. My first major ride was AIDS/LifeCycle (San Francisco to LA, 7-day 545-mile supported tour) but I've completed a number of flat centuries as well. Recently, I've been averaging 10-15 hours per week on the bike, covering 100-150 miles.

Lately, I've been noticing cramps in my inner thigh muscles (adductors?), especially on "faster" rides. I normally average 16 mph but am slowly trying to bump it up a notch (not race level, just gradual improvements). I don't have plans for racing, just doing longer rides (150-miles, double centuries).

Any suggestions on how to prevent and/or manage cramping? I'm hearing mixed suggestions on training and strengthening. On one hand, I believe I know I have very weak core and bad flexibility (I'm mostly cycling with zero time in the gym) — so I'm thinking full-body workouts and stretching might help. But others also mention targeting those muscles with foam rollers might help. I'm still probably under-hydrating (possibly not enough electrolytes), but I think it might be more fatigue/over-use than anything else. Usually I consume about 2-3x25-oz bottles over a course of the ride (switched from Nuun electrolyte tablets to Perpetuem).

I'm currently base building to try and tackle the Death Ride and my first easy double-century this year. I just completed the MegaMonster Enduro ride, making it my 3rd century for 2014. That was when cramps hit me the hardest, to the point that I nearly froze up when reaching the finish line. I know it's probably fatigue and over-use (6.5 hour moving time, 3 minutes total rest).

Thanks for any tips in advance!


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## Srode (Aug 19, 2012)

How much water are you drinking after the ride? If I get cramps, it's always lack of hydration of electrolytes from what I can tell. Often because I stopped with both too quickly after completion of the ride.


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## ericm979 (Jun 26, 2005)

Congratulations on the weight loss!

I don't know what length ride that 2-3 bottles is consumed for. But 20-28 oz/hr is probably a good start. When I have gotten cramps from low hydration it's not specific to a few muscles. While some muscles are worst off and cramp first, the rest of my legs feel like they're not far behind. And it only happens well into long races in hot weather. Of course everyone is different but I only need electrolytes on long (5 hour+) hot rides.

I think that your problem may be overuse. Your position or pedalling style may be putting more strain on those muscles than it does on others.

Perpetuem doesn't have much in the way of electrolytes.


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## woodys737 (Dec 31, 2005)

Hey I don't have any useful advise other than I got them for the first time a few weeks ago after back to back crits. I worked extremely hard in both and they started cramping (sending zingers down my leg) about 3/4 of the way through the last crit.

Sore the next day but, after an easy spin I was right back at it. Attribute it all to overloading...


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## jmorgan (Apr 13, 2012)

I would say overloading is probably the issue and riding more will help (try a little slower and longer).

For me electrolytes are critical I have found. Looking at your Perpetuem, how many scoops are you taking (taking more scoops may not be the answer either as there is a bunch of sugar in 2 scoops 54g), 2 scoops is only 220mg sodium, I take in about 400mg of sodium a bottle and it seems to help (nuun I think is close to this and convenient to bring on a ride, I also like skratch labs). Last time I had a cramp on my inner thigh was about half way through a century when I wasn't drinking enough and was drinking water only, both of which I believe caused the cramps. 

Pickle juice (vinegar and sodium) I have heard (and have tried) can help reduce cramping once it starts. (I have also heard pickle juice might hurt with lactic acid build up but if you are cramping, thats the least of your worries and you have to back it down anyways) There is a company that sells little bottles of it or you could get a jar of pickles and put some of the juice into a little bottle to bring with you on longer rides.

Looking at Perpetuem more, they recommend making one bottle a concentrate and sipping it along with plain water for longer events. Which has to be gross and again if low electrolytes are your issue their 220mg in 2 scoops are probably not enough if you sweat a lot. You might try something with more sodium 400+mg and a little less sugar, like 30-40g a bottle or so if you want to drink some carbs otherwise eating your carbs is probably better.


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## genux (Jun 18, 2012)

Srode said:


> How much water are you drinking after the ride? If I get cramps, it's always lack of hydration of electrolytes from what I can tell. Often because I stopped with both too quickly after completion of the ride.


Probably not enough. By my best estimates, and I know I'm greatly overestimating, I'm only consuming about 40-60 oz of liquids after the ride well into the night when I sleep.

The thing about the cramps I'm getting is that it's always during the ride, and very rarely after.


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## genux (Jun 18, 2012)

ericm979 said:


> Congratulations on the weight loss!
> 
> I don't know what length ride that 2-3 bottles is consumed for. But 20-28 oz/hr is probably a good start. When I have gotten cramps from low hydration it's not specific to a few muscles. While some muscles are worst off and cramp first, the rest of my legs feel like they're not far behind. And it only happens well into long races in hot weather. Of course everyone is different but I only need electrolytes on long (5 hour+) hot rides.


Hmm, then I think I'm vastly under-hydrating. I usually finish my 25-oz bottle in at least 2 hours. The 3 bottles lasted my entire 6.5-hour ride. This is in cooler California winter weathers, though. I'll probably be consuming a little bit more on hotter days, but not by much.



> I think that your problem may be overuse. Your position or pedalling style may be putting more strain on those muscles than it does on others.


Ok, then it sounds like I should just ease into this and be patient. I can feel the early warning signs of the cramps: usually after many repetitions of climbing off the saddle, staying out of my comfort zone too long (e.g. trying to stay on someone's wheel), etc.

I may be due for a follow-up on my fit again since it's almost been a year: 1/3 of the tummy gone, but I probably haven't worked on my flexibility much.



> Perpetuem doesn't have much in the way of electrolytes.


I'm experimenting with Perpetuem to see if I can stave off hunger. I used to bring Clif bars, Honey Stinger waffles, and other solids for fuel, but I find that drinking my calories seems to be easier on the stomach, and a bit more convenient in that I can sip occasionally rather than chugging down 1/3-1/2 of a bar and swallowing them.

I used to just do 2 x Nuun tablets per 25-oz bottle. That's usually enough for my rides under 60 miles. I've only been trying Perpetuem on longer (70+) rides to see how it works with me.


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## genux (Jun 18, 2012)

jmorgan said:


> I would say overloading is probably the issue and riding more will help (try a little slower and longer).
> 
> For me electrolytes are critical I have found. Looking at your Perpetuem, how many scoops are you taking (taking more scoops may not be the answer either as there is a bunch of sugar in 2 scoops 54g), 2 scoops is only 220mg sodium, I take in about 400mg of sodium a bottle and it seems to help (nuun I think is close to this and convenient to bring on a ride, I also like skratch labs). Last time I had a cramp on my inner thigh was about half way through a century when I wasn't drinking enough and was drinking water only, both of which I believe caused the cramps.


I'm following their recommendations for my weight: so pretty much 2 scoops per 25-oz bottle, which I consume in 2 hours (usually longer). I once tried 2.5 scoops and that felt like eating/drinking cookie dough.



> Looking at Perpetuem more, they recommend making one bottle a concentrate and sipping it along with plain water for longer events. Which has to be gross and again if low electrolytes are your issue their 220mg in 2 scoops are probably not enough if you sweat a lot. You might try something with more sodium 400+mg and a little less sugar, like 30-40g a bottle or so if you want to drink some carbs otherwise eating your carbs is probably better.


I'll give that a try again. I haven't really paid attention to sodium content in any of the nutritional labels. My old strategy of Honey Waffle stingers + Nuun tabs in the bottle worked well enough though I did get hungry occasionally.

I have a few months to experiment and find the right combination that might help me on longer rides.

Thanks for all the suggestions!


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## jmorgan (Apr 13, 2012)

Did nuun and honey stingers cause cramps too? A banana will fill you up and is good for you. 

Why not try a gel if you rather not eat your calories, I like Powerbar gels as they have 200mg of sodium and some have a little caffeine which I like on longer or more intense rides. Nuun + gels would be a better combo than what you are currently doing. I'm using skratch labs and gels right now with honey stingers when I want something to eat. 


Here is a video you should watch. I don't think Perpetuem is doing you any favors on staying hydrated. 
Keeping it real with hydration science and practice to make you faster - YouTube
Obviously the video might be biased but you can figure out a better combo than what you are currently using to try to keep you fueled and hydrated.


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## genux (Jun 18, 2012)

Now that I think about it, Nuun+Honey Stingers haven't caused cramps, but at the same time I haven't really used that combo in longer/harder rides. I'll give it a shot this weekend when I have back-to-back rides (albeit under 100-miles each).

I still have to find a gel-type product that I like. The ones I've tried so far (Gu, Hammer, Clif, Accel) are a bit too sweet for my liking, even when sticking with more neutral flavors. I have not yet tried diluting them with water as I've had most of them in single-serve packets.

I'll give Skratch products a try. So far the only thing Perpetuem has done for me is curb hunger, but I think given my body composition and food I can bring on the ride, I shouldn't be too concerned about running out of fuel.


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## antonlove (Sep 30, 2009)

Genux,

Congratulations on your weight loss and your improvements as a cyclist. Keep up the great work!

As you said, you're not just new to cycling, you're new to athletics, in general, so I'd like to weigh in. While you're cycling, pay attention to your body and how it behaves given different circumstances. How are you in the cold, heat, wind, etc.? You will find that your body will talk to you, and you should listen to it. You will perform better after having eaten certain types of food, you should eat/drink a certain amount at certain intervals while you ride. 

When you get a good handle on all of this, your body throws you a curve and your inner thigh starts cramping. I'm guessing that this time of year, it's not happening due to heat. How has your fluid intake been? How has your electrolyte replacement been? Did you eat a banana before you rode? Did you drink alcohol the night before? Had you not been riding due to weather, and started up again recently and this was your 1st moderate to hard effort? Were there more or steeper climbs on this ride? All of these could be a factor. Additionally, your pedaling style may put more stress on that part of your leg. 

I know people have weighed in on the supplements they use to mitigate that problem. One of my buddies SWEARS by Perpetuem. My brother really likes <a target="_blank" href="http://www.sportlegs.com/about/welcome.asp">sportlegs</a>, and I am a big fan of Hammer Nutrition's <a target="_blank" href="http://www.hammernutrition.com/products/endurolytes.elt.html?navcat=fuels-energy-drinks">endurolytes</a>.


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## ericm979 (Jun 26, 2005)

You can only turn fat into energy at a certain rate. It doesnt matter how much you are carrying, beyond a certain power output you have to also use significant amounts of carbs. That point is different for different people and can be raised by training.

I find that most drinks are too sweet or taste nasty. They get even harder to take after hours on the bike. Some sports drinks and all gels make me feel ill. I've switched to mostly real food (see the Allen Lim books). It'd be convenient to be able to ride on Perpetuem (especially for organized rides where it's supplied at stops) but I can barely get it down even when I am fresh. I'll use one gel as a caffeine carrier near the end, that's it. On the last Death Ride I started with a pocket full of brown rice muffins and picked up more, plus some other food, when I passed my car at the start. The real food plan worked well for me- I set my best time (8:15 riding) in 10 years of riding it. My stomach was fine until I had an ice cream at the top of the last pass. I also brought my own drink mix (Skratch labs).


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## MTBMaven (Dec 17, 2005)

genux, Congrats on getting in to cycling and your weight loss!

Recommendations I've skimmed are pretty consistent on the need for electrolytes. I get the same cramps you describe (on a big MTB ride today in fact they almost kicked in on both legs). I actually spoke with my doc about it, who is a triathlete. He said the cramps are symptoms of dehydration. 

I would highly recommend reading the fueling literature on the Hammer site. I learned a ton reading this stuff early on. Understand and know the numbers related to calories, electrolytes, and water for your body. Go into your event knowing how much you need to have throughout the course of the day. Over time you will learn and tweak things. 

Hammer is good stuff and I used it for years. Over time I grew tired of much Perpetuem and Sustained Energy. It gets too cakey and has too much flavor for long days. Up to about 6 hours their stuff is ok but after that I found myself so tired of drinking I'd fall behind. 

My preference is Infinit Nutrition. I love the ability to dial in things like electrolytes, flavor, caffeine, protein, and a few more. The big problem with Infinit is the price. 

Other favorite things for fueling are V8s at SAGs and recently Gu Salted Caramel. I can also vouch for pickle juice. I remember the folks at the Bass Lake Double being taken by surprise when I asked for a cup of pickle juice at the SAGs.  

One thing to keep in mind about fueling and on training. If you are not fueling properly on your rides you will start to burn lean muscle. This is important because you may be eating into the muscle you are working to build. For some unfortunate reason it's easier for your body to convert lean muscle than fat. 

I would highly recommend you conduct your own lactate threshold test. I forget the exact specifics but there's plenty on the web. Do the short version. This test essentially tells you the heart rate at which your body goes from aerobic to anaerobic - or when your body will store more lactic acid in your muscle than it can filter, i.e. you will start cramping. Knowing this information will help you better regulate your output on big rides.

Doubles and especially Death Ride will test you (I've done it twice). Go out too strong early will hurt later. That first climb on Death Ride comes up really quickly and is punishing. You don't want to be 5-10 BPM on that first climb because you will pay for it on the last climb.

To ericm979's point about fat burning. I posted similar questions on RBR several years ago and got lots of response. The big take away was that fat burning at lower heart rates is burned at a larger *percentage* than at higher heart rates. At higher heart rates fat burning may be lower percentage but is a higher raw value than at lower heart rates.


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## genux (Jun 18, 2012)

Thanks for all the tips.

I finished my Perpetuem stuff and have been riding on just Nuun+water and waffles — I'll try and recreate the riding conditions from a couple of weeks back to see if more electrolytes and avoiding dehydration helps prevent cramping, or at least keeps it off longer. Looking back, I realized I tended to sweat more during those situations because of additional cold-weather gear.

I'm not sure where I fall with the whole riding in the "fat burning zone" phase. I figure that if I'm working harder, I'll be burning more calories in the end. A smaller percentage of that may come from fat, but it's still calories lost. I just need to make sure to recover properly after.

As I progress, I'll try and see if I can improve my heart rate. I've been averaging 160 bpm (tested max HR of 187) throughout most long rides, but it seems that even on very easy rides & short rides, I hardly go under 150. The moment I see or meet an incline, my HR just goes up 5-10 bpm higher. So right now I'm just getting used to climbing hills and finding a maintainable pace that I can bring into the DR. My goal is finishing without getting cut off. Speed can come later.


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## Theboss13913 (Feb 18, 2014)

This may have already been said but what helps me on my centuries is pickle juice.......


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