# SRAM Admits Defeat - Markets Chain Spotter



## rcordray

I've been riding SRAM since first gen Force and have been as big a fan as anyone, but they've finally acknowledged the chain drop issues are real. Remember Andy Schleck in the Tour?

They have engineered an after-market chain watcher that closely resembles the K-Edge:

SRAM Chain Spotter: Integrated solution for perfect protection | theroaddiaries

This is integrated into the latest 2012 Red FD, but now available to all other group levels.


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## cxwrench

thinking that SRAM is the only company that has experienced chain drop issues shows a certain amount of ignorance. they're just the first company that has taken the next logical step in drivetrain design by including a chain spotter.


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## rcordray

cxwrench said:


> thinking that SRAM is the only company that has experienced chain drop issues shows a certain amount of ignorance. they're just the first company that has taken the next logical step in drivetrain design by including a chain spotter.


Thanks for spotting my ignorance, I try to keep that hidden...
Please notice, I never stated that other brands' gruppos don't have chain drop issues.
SRAM FD shifting issues are well-known and well-documented. Why else would they have scrapped their original design and re-engineered the 2012 Red FD from the ground up and integrated a chain spotter?

The ultimate goal here, I would believe, is to perfect the mechanism so that no chain spotter is needed. No company has found that design yet.


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## philbennett

Im a shimano guy, but you're off base. chain drop isn't specific in any way to SRAM despite Andy's prominent issue. chain spotters have been around for a long time, used by folks running Shimano and Campy too....and -- just my humble opinion, anyone who has a carbon frame and isnt running one is kind of failing an IQ test.
It CAN happen to you and chances are perhaps 1 in 3 that when it does it will chainsaw your chainstay/BB area.


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## tlg

rcordray said:


> Why else would they have scrapped their original design and re-engineered the 2012 Red FD from the ground up and integrated a chain spotter?


There could be a multitude of reasons.
Marketing ("New-latest/greatest" sells, even if it's not necessarily better)
To improve the overall function.
To reduce weight.
To solve other problems.


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## Kristatos

I don't interpret the post here as picking on SRAM - could be that they are 'enlightened' by admitting that some amount of chain drop risk is almost impossible to engineer out of the system and a chain watcher is the best path forward. If SRAM stays mechanical (which I doubt) then for sure a chain watcher is a good thing and it's not like SRAM hasn't taken a little heat for the front shifting. Anyone know if electronic shifting in the front would eliminate the need for this?


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## zigmeister

The problem with this style of clamp, it won't fit most carbon frames due to the size of the clamp needed.

The braze-on solution is the way to go. Or, I think Canyon has their water bottle mount one, pretty slick for that situation.

I don't lose my chain to the inside with my SRAM Red and Rotor Qrings. I have thrown the chain over the outside though. Have to tweak my FD to resolve that.


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## cxwrench

there is no way to eliminate the chances of dropping a chain completely, any experienced mechanic will tell you this. therefore, eliminating the need for chain catchers is not possible. unless there is some major change in the way front derailleurs work, chain catchers are a must have.


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## MikeMiranda

The real question is when/where can I buy one?


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## iclypso

...and how much will it cost?


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## martinot

rcordray said:


> ....... Why else would they have scrapped their original design and re-engineered the 2012 Red FD from the ground up and integrated a chain spotter?
> .


The problem was flex in the titanium cage and chain rubbing when across the rings - poor trimming. Plus a relatively hard up-shifting. I am still on the original Red and actually have no complaints with the front d - got used to it.


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## iclypso

MikeMiranda said:


> The real question is when/where can I buy one?





iclypso said:


> ...and how much will it cost?




I guess VeloNews has answered two of these three questions:

_Suggested retail is $32 and the catcher will be available June 1. _



Full article at the bottom of the post: here


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## Tri Slow Poke

cxwrench said:


> there is no way to eliminate the chances of dropping a chain completely, any experienced mechanic will tell you this. therefore, eliminating the need for chain catchers is not possible. unless there is some major change in the way front derailleurs work, chain catchers are a must have.


Not sure if they are a must have unless you ride some seriously rough terrain or perform really hard shifts under load like Schleck attempted. I've dropped chains before, but nothing that wasn't solved by performing a shift and putting the chain back on the rings.


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## royta

I've only dropped a chain one time, and it was last winter on my fluid trainer. I'll probably pick up a chain keeper for my SRAM FD.


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## Chris-X

Treks frames also drop chains. That's why the Domane has a built in chain watcher. ;-)


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## robdamanii

rcordray said:


> I've been riding SRAM since first gen Force and have been as big a fan as anyone, but they've finally acknowledged the chain drop issues are real. Remember Andy Schleck in the Tour?
> 
> They have engineered an after-market chain watcher that closely resembles the K-Edge:
> 
> SRAM Chain Spotter: Integrated solution for perfect protection | theroaddiaries
> 
> This is integrated into the latest 2012 Red FD, but now available to all other group levels.


Remember Andy in TdS throwing the chain with Di2?

Why hasn't Shimano integrated a chain catcher yet? Obviously they have chain drop issues?

If ignorance were bliss....


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## davidka

rcordray said:


> . Why else would they have scrapped their original design and re-engineered the 2012 Red FD from the ground up and integrated a chain spotter?
> 
> The ultimate goal here, I would believe, is to perfect the mechanism so that no chain spotter is needed. No company has found that design yet.


There is no way to "perfect the mechanism", other than to trap the chain within the system (chain catcher/spotter). They did it because for the last two years teams have been coming up with their own tricks that were sought after by us and they saw that their competition were not doing anything, hence a feature that results in competitive advantage.

D/A and every other group can drop the chain. This will always be the case as long as we're using a derailleur system.


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## cxwrench

Tri Slow Poke said:


> Not sure if they are a must have unless you ride some seriously rough terrain or perform really hard shifts under load like Schleck attempted. I've dropped chains before, but nothing that wasn't solved by performing a shift and putting the chain back on the rings.


if that's the case, tell me why EVERY pro race bike has one of some type or another. for every race. on all types of terrain.


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## MikeMiranda

$36 for chainspotter for braze on 68 for clamp ons


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## ZoSoSwiM

I just installed a new red front mech with chain spotter on my bike.. I'm running 2011 Force.. Don't let the marketing fool ya.. they're compatible. 

The new Red derailleur shifts extremely well even under power. The chain spotter ties in nicely and is easy to adjust it so it's nice and close to the chain. It works well.

With the Force derailleur I had maybe 3 inside chain drops.. the shifting never felt as crisp but worked well enough. Did I need the new derailleur? no... am I happy I bought it? Yes.. Hopefully I'll never drop a chain again.


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## Local Hero

I suddenly feel like I need to buy this thing even though I've never dropped my chain.


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## MikeMiranda

Available in June


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## Retro Grouch

Given that Campy and Shimano have over a century of road group development combined, SRAM isn't doing too badly being just a few years in the road group business. IMHO.


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## bigdeal

rcordray said:


> I've been riding SRAM since first gen Force and have been as big a fan as anyone, but they've finally acknowledged the chain drop issues are real. Remember Andy Schleck in the Tour?
> 
> They have engineered an after-market chain watcher that closely resembles the K-Edge:
> 
> SRAM Chain Spotter: Integrated solution for perfect protection | theroaddiaries
> 
> This is integrated into the latest 2012 Red FD, but now available to all other group levels.


Wow, a defeat admitted indeed. No Shimano riders have ever dropped chains at crucial times, right Bradley Wiggins ( http://www.velonation.com/News/ID/1...ndie-victory-in-Crans-Montana-time-trial.aspx ) ?


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## cxwrench

bigdeal said:


> Wow, a defeat admitted indeed. No Shimano riders have ever dropped chains at crucial times, right Bradley Wiggins ( Bradley Wiggins climbs to overall Romandie victory in Crans-Montana time trial ) ?


or maybe Taylor Phinney?


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## flatsix911

rcordray said:


> I've been riding SRAM since first gen Force and have been as big a fan as anyone, but they've finally acknowledged the chain drop issues are real. Remember Andy Schleck in the Tour?
> 
> They have engineered an after-market chain watcher that closely resembles the K-Edge:
> 
> SRAM Chain Spotter: Integrated solution for perfect protection | theroaddiaries
> 
> This is integrated into the latest 2012 Red FD, but now available to all other group levels.


Well done ... :thumbsup:


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## Lu-Max

I really like the inclusion of the adjuster bolt, first chain catcher I've seen with an integrated one.


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## MikeMiranda

I wanna preorder one


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## RedNose44

martinot said:


> The problem was flex in the titanium cage and chain rubbing when across the rings - poor trimming. Plus a relatively hard up-shifting. I am still on the original Red and actually have no complaints with the front d - got used to it.


I think flex in the Sram chainrings are also part of the problem. I ended up going with a DA FD on my Madone because shifting was terrible. On my new Cervelo the Red FD actually works ok with the Rotor chainrings.


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## TickDoc

funny, I switched from ultegra to red (2011) recently and dropped my first chain on the test ride. I just figured it was because I was new to red and it was out of alignment. Three more drops and I took it back the next week for a chain catcher (k-edge) and all is well.


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## stabor

I had a drop early on with the Force f.d. On inspection the shop seemed to have set the low-gear limit too far inward, so I pulled that back a bit and everything seems fine now. But I'll probably get a chain-spotter just to be safe.


Steve


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## todayilearned

MikeMiranda said:


> $36 for chainspotter for braze on 68 for clamp ons


$68 for a clamp on chain spotter!?


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## iclypso

If you have a braze-on FD, decent deal. If you have a clamp-on FD, you won't buy a SRAM FD again.

Edit: I own a SRAM Rival FD and will be buying an aftermarket clamp-on chain catcher.


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## Lu-Max

This one  is less than $18 and work great.


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## Torelli4

Just how prevalant is this chain drop thing with SRAM? I've been riding Campy since 1995 (8 sp & 10 sp) and have never dropped a chain. Not once. I don't race and there are no mountains in Delaware. Maybe that's it. I'm looking at a new bike with SRAM Rival but I'm getting a little spooked after reading this and other similar threads.


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## robdamanii

Torelli4 said:


> Just how prevalant is this chain drop thing with SRAM? I've been riding Campy since 1995 (8 sp & 10 sp) and have never dropped a chain. Not once. I don't race and there are no mountains in Delaware. Maybe that's it. I'm looking at a new bike with SRAM Rival but I'm getting a little spooked after reading this and other similar threads.


Don't worry about it.

It's a "better safe than sorry" insurance policy to prevent your nice carbon BB shell from getting chewed up if you ride on rough terrain.


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## Cinelli 82220

bigdeal said:


> Wow, a defeat admitted indeed. No Shimano riders have ever dropped chains at crucial times, right Bradley Wiggins


I watched that live, it came off because he was using those oval chainrings while going downhill very fast and spinning very fast.
Shimano never advocated using oval rings with their system.


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## Special Eyes

A LBS showed me the SRAM unit but it only comes included with a front DR, which most of us already have. Looks like they will be selling it separately soon.....good!


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## MarvinK

Cinelli 82220 said:


> I watched that live, it came off because he was using those oval chainrings while going downhill very fast and spinning very fast. Shimano never advocated using oval rings with their system.


Both Schleck and Cancellara dropped their chain with DA di2 in this year's Tour de Suisse. No oval chainrings. Cancellara admitted he accidentally pressed the shifter button, Schleck just doesn't know how to shift (regardless of what manufacturer he uses).

The reality is the chain spotter is a good tool already used by multiple teams--and a great idea for SRAM to start including with their derailleurs. If you're a hardcore Shimano fan, just get a K-Edge. You won't be alone:
http://www.acecosportgroup.com/teams-athletes (Note that many of these teams rode Shimano and didn't use oval rings)


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## sund

Has anyone seen this being sold separately yet? I'm not seeing it anywhere.


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## cxwrench

it's still not available yet. qbp (wholesale distributor) should have it in stock the beginning of july, your lbs can order from them. online stores should have right around that time as well.


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## MarvinK

Not really sure the need to wait on the SRAM catcher... the K-Edge is readily available in multiple colors, costs less and is lighter.

K-Edge Chain Catcher in Tree Fort Bikes Chain Deflectors (cat464)


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## Cbre

Ive been using the 2012 Red group for three weeks without the chain catcher and no dropped chain.


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## cxwrench

Cbre said:


> Ive been using the 2012 Red group for three weeks without the chain catcher and no dropped chain.


congratulations, that's great. did you actually remove the chain catcher and if so, why?


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## Cbre

cxwrench said:


> congratulations, that's great. did you actually remove the chain catcher and if so, why?



Im a WW, actually I never used it, not need on a properly running bike.


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## royta

Cbre said:


> Ive been using the 2012 Red group for three weeks without the chain catcher and no dropped chain.





cxwrench said:


> congratulations, that's great. did you actually remove the chain catcher and if so, why?





Cbre said:


> Im a WW, actually I never used it, not need on a properly running bike.


That stupid Shleck guy must have had a poorly running bike. You'd think those pro riders would get some decent mechanics.


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## Lu-Max

Not to mention Wiggo, Phinney, Cancellara, etc...


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## Cbre

royta said:


> That stupid Shleck guy must have had a poorly running bike. You'd think those pro riders would get some decent mechanics.


He did not have the new Red, do you? I've run it for three weeks hard with two road races without fail, so why use it, I actually tried in every senario to have it drop and it has not, now my old Red was awfull and would occasionally drop the chain.


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## robdamanii

Cbre said:


> Im a WW, actually I never used it, not need on a properly running bike.


Well, chalk that opinion up under the "wrong" column.


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## Cbre

Lu-Max said:


> Not to mention Wiggo, Phinney, Cancellara, etc...


Outstanding, did not know you had so much experience with the new groupset. The catcher is a great piece and it would be a good idea to use it, I just don't see a real need for it if the front is adjusted correctly.


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## ronderman

MarvinK said:


> Both Schleck and Cancellara dropped their chain with DA di2 in this year's Tour de Suisse. No oval chainrings. Cancellara admitted he accidentally pressed the shifter button, Schleck just doesn't know how to shift (regardless of what manufacturer he uses).


you posted this five days ago, today is June 8th, tour de Suisse starts June 9th, yet you know, before a race even begins that two riders will drop their chain. Wow.

Tell me, please at what point should I buy Facebook stock, it's dropping like a sSchleck a schifting and at some point has to hit bottom.


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## cxwrench

Cbre said:


> Outstanding, did not know you had so much experience with the new groupset. The catcher is a great piece and it would be a good idea to use it, I just don't see a real need for it if the front is adjusted correctly.


congratulations, you just saved what...less than 10g? i hope you don't end up ruining your frame someday when your 'correctly adjusted' front derailleur decides to drop your chain. why do you think all of those chain catchers are made? the most perfectly adjusted front derailleurs in the world can still drop chains. in my opinion you made a pretty foolish decision, hope it works out ok for you.


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## MarvinK

ronderman said:


> you posted this five days ago, today is June 8th, tour de Suisse starts June 9th, yet you know, before a race even begins that two riders will drop their chain. Wow.
> 
> Tell me, please at what point should I buy Facebook stock, it's dropping like a sSchleck a schifting and at some point has to hit bottom.


Sorry... last year. In any case, current generation di2. I imagine this year they'll be using 9xxx (not sure about di) though. In any case, you shouldn't buy Facebook stock. Eventually it will become the next MySpace.

Andy Schleck dropped his chain again [Archive] - Bike Forums


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## purdyd

cxwrench said:


> congratulations, you just saved what...less than 10g? i hope you don't end up ruining your frame someday when your 'correctly adjusted' front derailleur decides to drop your chain. why do you think all of those chain catchers are made? the most perfectly adjusted front derailleurs in the world can still drop chains. in my opinion you made a pretty foolish decision, hope it works out ok for you.


I have the new yaw front dérailleur and have dropped my chain at least three times

Never dropped it with the old red

I am kind of ashamed to admit I put the chain spotter in a drawer and didnt find it until today,it went on immediately


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## purdyd

Darn double post


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## marathon marke

Some people seem to have had problems with chain drops with old Red and some others are having problems with new Red. To me it sounds like the answer is clearly in the setup. 

I have old Red (black) and haven't dropped the chain once since I got my BMC Team Machine last February. The bike has over 4,000 miles on it so far.


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## Cbre

Oh trust me if my chain does drop the 8gr chain catcher will go on! Could not be happier with the new Red front shifting though.


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## Cyclin Dan

Is that kind of like "once I get cancer, I'll buy some insurance"? 

I built up a new Campy SR11 gruppo in an S-Works Tarmac, and I bought/installed the K-Edge at the time I built the bike. I have no idea if I've ever benefit from it being there or not, but I've got over 5,000 miles on the bike so far and haven't dropped the chain once.


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## Cbre

Cyclin Dan said:


> Is that kind of like "once I get cancer, I'll buy some insurance"?
> 
> I built up a new Campy SR11 gruppo in an S-Works Tarmac, and I bought/installed the K-Edge at the time I built the bike. I have no idea if I've ever benefit from it being there or not, but I've got over 5,000 miles on the bike so far and haven't dropped the chain once.


Ive always have run Campy, never had a front shifting issue, very solid groupset. Once I bought the 2012 CD EVO chain dropped first day and numerous times after all with piss poor shifting, now with the 2012 group it feels like the Campy group, just solid and accurate. Ive spent way too much money to get the bike this light to add 8Gr of uselessness, but everyone builds there bikes differantly, I am not about to critique someone elses build.


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## Cbre

The key is just spending a few minutes with set up, also with the new FD I now can use all rear gears without rub vs the old Red.

https://img18.imageshack.us/img18/5224/bbb003bk.jpg


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## robdamanii

Cbre said:


> The key is just spending a few minutes with set up, also with the new FD I now can use all rear gears without rub vs the old Red.
> 
> https://img18.imageshack.us/img18/5224/bbb003bk.jpg


Uh huh. Keep believing that until your chain finds its way onto the BB shell. All it takes is a downshift on a rough road and it'll be riding the BB. I'd rather have a 10 gram chain spotter to guard against that possibility (especially since I see quite a number of dirt/gravel/rough roads.)

OT, How do the non-red rings work on the Red crank, BTW? I thought the clocking was incorrect for use with aftermarket rings?


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## Cbre

robdamanii said:


> Uh huh. Keep believing that until your chain finds its way onto the BB shell. All it takes is a downshift on a rough road and it'll be riding the BB. I'd rather have a 10 gram chain spotter to guard against that possibility (especially since I see quite a number of dirt/gravel/rough roads.)
> 
> OT, How do the non-red rings work on the Red crank, BTW? I thought the clocking was incorrect for use with aftermarket rings?


Like the fact that I saved 64Gr bringing the total down to 494Gr with spindle. Did not affect shifting at all BUT im a light rider, the new Sram big ring is crazy stiff and well built, but weighs in at 150gr. 
https://img268.imageshack.us/img268/9979/red007.jpg


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## robdamanii

Cbre said:


> Like the fact that I saved 64Gr bringing the total down to 494Gr with spindle. Did not affect shifting at all BUT im a light rider, the new Sram big ring is crazy stiff and well built, but weighs in at 150gr.
> https://img268.imageshack.us/img268/9979/red007.jpg


So did you need to modify the chainrings at all to fit with the hidden bolt? And the shifting pins/ramps all lined up just fine?

Sounds like SRAM touted a little more BS....


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## purdyd

marathon marke said:


> Some people seem to have had problems with chain drops with old Red and some others are having problems with new Red. To me it sounds like the answer is clearly in the setup.
> 
> I have old Red (black) and haven't dropped the chain once since I got my BMC Team Machine last February. The bike has over 4,000 miles on it so far.


Oh, you have 4000 miles on the new red?

If I drop to the smal chain ring fast under load, it will drop, like in a climb

This might be because I am using the old brifters, or that I have a tad more adjustment in the stop than sram recommends because if refuse to have any chain rub in my biggest gear

At any rate, I think there is a reason SRAM included the chain spotter


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## marathon marke

Please re-read my original post. I have over 4000 on *old* Red.

BTW, even though I haven't thrown the chain yet, I still plan to install one of the new Sram catchers when they become available next month.



purdyd said:


> Oh, you have 4000 miles on the new red?
> 
> If I drop to the smal chain ring fast under load, it will drop, like in a climb
> 
> This might be because I am using the old brifters, or that I have a tad more adjustment in the stop than sram recommends because if refuse to have any chain rub in my biggest gear
> 
> At any rate, I think there is a reason SRAM included the chain spotter


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## Cbre

robdamanii said:


> So did you need to modify the chainrings at all to fit with the hidden bolt? And the shifting pins/ramps all lined up just fine?
> 
> Sounds like SRAM touted a little more BS....


All lined up fine, I'm sure SRAM just wants people to buy the entire system. Another 50 miles of abuse on it today with flawless shifting, still happy! Now that last 4 ounces....


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## robdamanii

Cbre said:


> All lined up fine, I'm sure SRAM just wants people to buy the entire system. Another 50 miles of abuse on it today with flawless shifting, still happy! Now that last 4 ounces....


That's pretty interesting. I'll have to consider that, given that I'd prefer different rings on the new Quarq...


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## royta

Wouldn't the pin on the outside of the large ring not line up with the crankarm when using 2012 Red rings with non 2012 Red crankarms?


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## purdyd

marathon marke said:


> Please re-read my original post. I have over 4000 on *old* Red.
> 
> BTW, even though I haven't thrown the chain yet, I still plan to install one of the new Sram catchers when they become available next month.


sorry, you missed my sarcasm, i can read

i wouldn't blame everything on setup

and bikes have different stay lengths, the lateral position of the rear cassette can be different

chain rings can be different etc.

i would install the new spotter on the new red, based on my limited experience

haven't had any issues since i put it on, too bad i couldn't find it for three weeks and had to learn the hard way


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## vagabondcyclist

Chain catcher on Bradley Wiggins' Dogma 2 at the Critérium du Dauphiné. He's running Dura Ace and the team mechanic put on a chain catcher. 

Gallery: Race Tech: Critérium Du Dauphiné - BikeRadar


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## cxwrench

vagabondcyclist said:


> Chain catcher on Bradley Wiggins' Dogma 2 at the Critérium du Dauphiné. He's running Dura Ace and the team mechanic put on a chain catcher.
> 
> Gallery: Race Tech: Critérium Du Dauphiné - BikeRadar


nothing special about that, virtually every pro team bike has a chain catcher of some type.


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## vagabondcyclist

cxwrench said:


> nothing special about that, virtually every pro team bike has a chain catcher of some type.


That was my point. Sorry it wasn't clear.


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## cxwrench

vagabondcyclist said:


> That was my point. Sorry it wasn't clear.


ah, i understand what you're saying:thumbsup:


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## SkiRacer55

*Bingo...*



robdamanii said:


> Uh huh. Keep believing that until your chain finds its way onto the BB shell. All it takes is a downshift on a rough road and it'll be riding the BB. I'd rather have a 10 gram chain spotter to guard against that possibility (especially since I see quite a number of dirt/gravel/rough roads.)
> 
> OT, How do the non-red rings work on the Red crank, BTW? I thought the clocking was incorrect for use with aftermarket rings?


...I'm getting a 2012 54 cm. Specialized Roubaix Pro SL3 frameset, building it up with SRAM Force and Boyd Vitesse wheels. I got a 2008 Roubaix Quick Step (new frame) with Apex a month ago, and I haven't dropped the chain...yet. But I'm getting a chain spotter for that one, and one of the SRAM braze-on chain spotters for the new bike. Part of the reason I went to the Roubaixs is so I can ride washboardy, dirt roads when I want...and we have a ton of those in Colorado. Maybe I'll never drop a shift...but I'll never have to think about it, either...


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## Cbre

vagabondcyclist said:


> Chain catcher on Bradley Wiggins' Dogma 2 at the Critérium du Dauphiné. He's running Dura Ace and the team mechanic put on a chain catcher.
> 
> Gallery: Race Tech: Critérium Du Dauphiné - BikeRadar


Might as well as they must ride 14.9# pigs, it is good piece of mind in that caliber of racing.


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## stabor

It finally occurred to me that the reason for my frequent chain-drops (with Force) might be that I have a long cage on the RD to accommodate a 32-tooth ring there. In that case the problem might lie with more flappiness in the tensioner, not with the FD setup which seems to be dialed in as well as can be. Anyway, K-edge now on order and I'm installing it right quick.


Steve


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## Chris-X

Cbre said:


> Might as well as they must ride *14.9# pigs*, it is good piece of mind in that caliber of racing.


:idea: That chainring would be a couple of grams lighter if you cleaned the gunk off it.


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