# Found an old Schwinn!



## JakeE (May 1, 2008)

I came across a '61 Schwinn Paramount (I think). It has a still working internal 3 speed, and the cruiser style bars of the day. The wheels and fenders are kind of spotty with rust, and I need to take the crappy layer of spray paint off of the frame with some paint thinner or something, but it's at least rideable. Looks like I found myself a project for a little bit.


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## Dave_Stohler (Jan 22, 2004)

Paramounts NEVER had "cruiser style bars". They also NEVER had internal-geared 3-speeds, and NEVER had fenders. They ALL had lugged frames, and external derailleurs and "drop" style bars. What you have is a lead-slead cruiser. Wrong forum, sorry....


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## Scooper (Mar 4, 2007)

Dave_Stohler said:


> Paramounts NEVER had "cruiser style bars". They also NEVER had internal-geared 3-speeds, and NEVER had fenders. They ALL had lugged frames, and external derailleurs and "drop" style bars. What you have is a lead-slead cruiser. Wrong forum, sorry....


Never say never...  

In the mid-fifties Schwinn built the P11 Paramount Tourist with...

- Tourist handlebars

- 3-speed Sturmey-Archer rear hub

- Chrome plated fenders










In the upper left corner of this 1961 dealer catalog page, you'll see the P11 27" wheel Men's Paramount Tourist was available with a choice of 10-speed, 3-speed, freewheel, or coaster brake . . . equipped with plastic fenders, mattress saddle, and touring handlebars.










Finally, here's Frank W. Schwinn's personal 1952 Paramount Tourist with ... chrome fenders, 3-speed hub, tourist handlebars, mattress saddle.


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## Mapei (Feb 3, 2004)

Whoo! That road racer pushes my button.


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## CurbDestroyer (Mar 6, 2008)

Mapei said:


> Whoo! That road racer pushes my button.


Yep . . . That going to be my new wallpaper


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## buck-50 (Sep 20, 2005)

Scooper said:


> Never say never...
> 
> In the upper left corner of this 1961 dealer catalog page, you'll see the P11 27" wheel Men's Paramount Tourist was available with a choice of 10-speed, 3-speed, freewheel, or coaster brake . . . equipped with plastic fenders, mattress saddle, and touring handlebars.


BIKE PWNED!


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## Bocephus Jones II (Oct 7, 2004)

JakeE said:


> I came across a '61 Schwinn Paramount (I think). It has a still working internal 3 speed, and the cruiser style bars of the day. The wheels and fenders are kind of spotty with rust, and I need to take the crappy layer of spray paint off of the frame with some paint thinner or something, but it's at least rideable. Looks like I found myself a project for a little bit.


post pix...


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## JakeE (May 1, 2008)

Hmm...maybe I misinterperated the serial number then, never guy. Or maybe it's not a Paramount. It's tough to tell with a crappy layer of spray paint over all the decals. Thanks for the uh...informative attempt?

As far as I can tell, the serial stars with K0, which means it should have been built in October of 1960, and sold as a '61. But there were a handful of change-ups in the serial number layout, I think, so I could easily be wrong.
Thanks for the real information, Scooper. I'll post pics when I start getting that paint wiped off.


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## Scooper (Mar 4, 2007)

JakeE said:


> I'll post pics when I start getting that paint wiped off.


Great. I'm anxious to see what you've got.

If you haven't already looked at the Waterford website page on Paramount serial numbers, you might want to do that. HERE's the link to that page. In 1961, the letter in the Paramounts' serial numbers didn't indicate the month as it did beginning in 1966. 1961 serial numbers would have only had three characters and would have been F10 through F99, G10 through G99, and H10 through H99.


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## JakeE (May 1, 2008)

Hmmm...
Well, the serial number is k022----- and I don't have the rest in front of me at the moment. I checked that site out and didn't see many bikes that came with 3-speeds, so I thought it was the Paramount. I'm actually mostly through taking things off the frame, other than the cranks and fork which I don't have the tools for. When I get them pulled off tomorrow, I'll do my best to see what the decals say, although I can't promise they will be preserved well enough to read anything.

A couple more details, if they offer any insight. The fenders are chrome and metal, as is the chainguard. The guard doesn't say anything on it like so many of the models I've seen, so I don't even know if it's original. It's just kind of a plain, horizontral lines/grooves pattern. The serial is stamped on the rear dropout, not the headtube as far as I can see.
Is there a link to the various decals? I can see part of what's on the seattube, but I can't make much out. Same with the downtube.
Thanks for any help!


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## Richard (Feb 17, 2006)

Is it lugged? Any "Ashtabula" Schwinn from that era would have the cast headtube that to the "untrained" eye would look like fillet brazing.


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## JakeE (May 1, 2008)

Honestly, it doesn't look lugged or brazed. Maybe it's way newer than I thought or I didn't look close enough. But it looks way similar to the pictures Scoop posted. I did notice though, that the seat and chain stays are kind of 'cross-sectioned' at the dropout end. Like, you can see into them. And the full serial is K022537.
Edit: found this. http://www.bunchobikes.com/serialnumber4.htm
So mine was made 10/07/1960. Sweet.


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## Richard (Feb 17, 2006)

Post 1979, Schwinn "outsourced" virtually all of their bikes to Japan and Taiwan. Only the genuine Paramounts were American made. And those were exclusively "high end" road and touring bikes.


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## Scooper (Mar 4, 2007)

This LINK has links to websites with many on-line Schwinn catalogs.

I believe your serial number is from October, 1960, but it isn't a Paramount serial number. Also, Dave_Stohler is right about all Paramounts having lugged frames.

Please post some photos.


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## Scooper (Mar 4, 2007)

Richard said:


> Post 1979, Schwinn "outsourced" virtually all of their bikes to Japan and Taiwan. Only the genuine Paramounts were American made. And those were exclusively "high end" road and touring bikes.


Well, while you're right about many Schwinns being outsourced after 1979, Schwinn continued building bikes other than Paramounts in the U.S. They continued building mass produced bikes in the Chicago factory until it was shut down in late 1983, and by that time the Greenville, Mississippi Schwinn plant was turning out Circuits, Tempos, Preludes and other models until it closed in 1991. 

Paramount production in "the Cage" at the Chicago plant stopped at the end of 1979 and resumed in late 1980 at the new Waterford, Wisconsin plant until shortly after the 1993 bankruptcy. Richard Schwinn and Marc Muller purchased the Waterford facility in 1993 from the bankruptcy court and started Waterford Precision Cycles, which still builds world class steel framed bicycles today. 

Between 1991 and 1993, Schwinn contracted with National/Panasonic in Japan to build the "PDG Series" Paramounts, which are very nice bicycles. Basically, Schwinn wanted to leverage the Paramount brand by offering a Paramount branded bike at a lower price point than the Waterford-built Paramounts. They are pretty easily recognized because they all had uni-crown forks. The serial number scheme is also very different for the PDG Series Paramounts than for the Waterford bikes.


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## Richard (Feb 17, 2006)

Scooper,

Please I'm not disageeing with you. I said "most".

Schwinn did a lot of "weird" things after 1979, and the genesis of a lot of "Paramount" stuff is up for grabs because the name went with the "brand."

The true inheritance of "Paramount" is and has been Waterford.


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## JakeE (May 1, 2008)

I think it's a traveler. Nice call on the serial not being a Paramount number.
https://www.geocities.com/sldbdealer6/1961/61dlct06b.jpg
If you look on the downtube, there are three little line things on each side of the word 'schwinn'. I can see those. The seat tube decals look about right, too.

I need to find replacement decals and one of those lights. And a chainguard like that one maybe.
The only thing that's throwing me is my 27" wheels. Hmmm again.
Oh yeah, it has the 'starburst badge' on the headtube, if that narrows down what year it was sold or anything. I just assumed it was sold as a '61.


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## bicyclerepairman (Mar 12, 2003)

*Are you sure?*



Richard said:


> Post 1979, Schwinn "outsourced" virtually all of their bikes to Japan and Taiwan. Only the genuine Paramounts were American made. And those were exclusively "high end" road and touring bikes.


How about the mid 1980's Schwinn Superior? (Very different from the mid 1970's Schwinn Superior).


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