# Hard to believe I'm alive.



## SauronHimself (Nov 21, 2012)

I just got home from the ER. I was booking down Rte 9 at 28mph when an old guy in a red minivan pulled out in front of me coming out of this sports bar. I broadsided it and went down hard, and luckily my helmet cam caught the whole thing. The police have it in their possession as evidence, and they think the driver was intoxicated. I have stitches on my right hand and left knee with plenty of pain.. IDK if my bike is totaled, but the front wheel is taco'd. I'm definitely gonna feel this tomorrow.


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## CleavesF (Dec 31, 2007)

Get well soon. As you stay in bed, just watch Le Tour 100eme and envision the baller replacement his insurance company will pay.


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## TattooedMtBiker (Jul 9, 2012)

Damn...glad to hear you're ok and just bruised and battered. Hope you have a speedy recovery and they nail the SOB, especially if he was DUI.


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## 9W9W (Apr 5, 2012)

What's that you say? Your collar bones are intact? Sweet!

Mmmm... insurance money.


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## SauronHimself (Nov 21, 2012)

Update: I just spoke with the officer who arrived at the scene. The driver's BAC was twice the legal limit. Stupid ****. Gonna try to sleep now.


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## 9W9W (Apr 5, 2012)

Wow. 

Where is rt. 9 btw?


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## Dave Cutter (Sep 26, 2012)

SauronHimself said:


> .... I broadsided it and went down hard, and luckily my helmet cam caught the whole thing. The police have it in their possession as evidence, and they think the driver was intoxicated....


The police _think_ the driver was intoxicated? I take it he drove off... ether didn't see you or didn't hang around?!?!? 

I think... in my state any time you hit a vehicle in its side.... you'd be at fault. If the driver of the van was drunk... you'd both be at fault. 

Really glad you aren't too seriously injured. Sorry you got hurt at all. I know, understand, and accept that injuries are a part of cycling.... but I don't like it. 

Hope your bicycle isn't too badly damaged ether.


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## exracer (Jun 6, 2005)

Dave Cutter said:


> I think... in my state any time you hit a vehicle in its side.... you'd be at fault.


So how does that work? Seems to me that it would depend on circumstances.


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## Dave Cutter (Sep 26, 2012)

exracer said:


> So how does that work? Seems to me that it would depend on circumstances.


Simple... the law requires the driver to be observant and in control enough to avoid hitting things. But I know what you mean.


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## redondoaveb (Jan 16, 2011)

Dave Cutter said:


> Simple... the law requires the driver to be observant and in control enough to avoid hitting things. But I know what you mean.


Unfortunately you can't always control what goes on around you. Like a driver making a left hand turn in front of you. Stupid law (but I'm sure I didn't have to tell you that).


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## bballr4567 (Jul 17, 2012)

Dave Cutter said:


> Simple... the law requires the driver to be observant and in control enough to avoid hitting things. But I know what you mean.


If a driver fails to yield to the vehicle that has the right of way how can the other that has the right of way be at fault? I've never understood no fault state laws. It boggles my mind that you can have an accident and NO ONE is at fault. 


Feel better. Take the meds, ice what hurts and get back on the bike ASAP. Cant wait to see the video.


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## Zeet (Mar 24, 2013)

So sorry to hear about your injuries from the accident!..I pray that you will have a most speedy recovery and no more accidents... You're one of my favorites! :thumbsup:


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## Data_God (Oct 9, 2012)

Dave Cutter said:


> The police _think_
> 
> I think... in my state any time you hit a vehicle in its side.... you'd be at fault. If the driver of the van was drunk... you'd both be at fault.


You'd be wrong for thinking this. I can think of at least three situation in which this could happen and be the other vehicles fault. So therefore your statement must be, well, wrong.

Bill


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## Blackbeerthepirate (Apr 26, 2011)

Ouch! Get better soon. 

That helmet cam video is going to look amazing at your settlement negotiations.


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## Charlie the Unicorn (Jan 8, 2013)

Data_God said:


> You'd be wrong for thinking this. I can think of at least three situation in which this could happen and be the other vehicles fault. So therefore your statement must be, well, wrong.
> 
> Bill


Consider source.


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## love4himies (Jun 12, 2012)

Wow, how scary that must have been for you. I hope you heal quickly and that they gave you some good pain meds in the meantime.


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## D&MsDad (Jul 17, 2007)

Dave Cutter said:


> I think... in my state any time you hit a vehicle in its side.... you'd be at fault. If the driver of the van was drunk... you'd both be at fault.


 Evidently the laws of physics and biology don't apply in your state, since if a driver pulls out in front of someone they are expected to be able to react instantaneously and decelerate in zero time and distance.

Sauron, it is unwise to post on the internet about ongoing legal issues. I advise asking the moderator to delete this thread, and certainly advise you not to post any further descriptions or opinions about your accident.





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## alegerlotz (Feb 8, 2013)

It sounds like you came through it pretty well considering the alternatives...

Speedy recovery!


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## headloss (Mar 3, 2013)

D&MsDad said:


> Sauron, it is unwise to post on the internet about ongoing legal issues. I advise asking the moderator to delete this thread, and certainly advise you not to post any further descriptions or opinions about your accident.


This^^^

Also, here's to your quick recovery. ugh...


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## NJBiker72 (Jul 9, 2011)

SauronHimself said:


> I just got home from the ER. I was booking down Rte 9 at 28mph when an old guy in a red minivan pulled out in front of me coming out of this sports bar. I broadsided it and went down hard, and luckily my helmet cam caught the whole thing. The police have it in their possession as evidence, and they think the driver was intoxicated. I have stitches on my right hand and left knee with plenty of pain.. IDK if my bike is totaled, but the front wheel is taco'd. I'm definitely gonna feel this tomorrow.


Get better. Get your head checked out too if you have not already. 

Hopefully the police take action against this guy.


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## J.T.D. (May 8, 2012)

My Mother lives on Rt 9 in Ravena. Sounds like you're not too far from her. 
Did the officer say whether this guy had insurance? Hopefully yes. 
Make sure you keep us updated on recovery and insurance outcome.


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## Social Climber (Jan 16, 2013)

Sauron, sorry to hear about the accident and hope you recover soon. I want to know where this happened as well. I live near a Route 9, in the lower Hudson valley in Westchester County.


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## JasonB176 (Aug 18, 2011)

It's good to hear that you weren't hurt any worse than you describe and that a settlement should be coming your way.


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## Cyclin Dan (Sep 24, 2011)

Sorry to hear about the crash! When you can share, I want to see the footage from your camera.


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## thekarens (Jul 17, 2012)

I'm glad you hit him as opposed to him coming out when you were in front of him. Get well soon!


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## WaynefromOrlando (Mar 3, 2010)

Dave Cutter said:


> The police _think_ the driver was intoxicated? I take it he drove off... ether didn't see you or didn't hang around?!?!?
> 
> I think... in my state any time you hit a vehicle in its side.... you'd be at fault. If the driver of the van was drunk... you'd both be at fault.
> 
> ...


I guess in your location no one ever, ever just pulls out in front of someone. Great for you, but in the real world, people will pull out of parking lots, side streets or bars like this one without looking, right in front of an oncoming vehicle that has no time to react. In reality, your state know this but probably sees accidents as cash flow and do their best to collect from both parties if possible.


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## mtnroadie (Jul 6, 2010)

Hope you are able to get back on the bike asap. I hope your helmet cam helps the cops prosecute the driver.

RT9 in Mass? I have seen cyclist on there before, not sure if I would have the balls to ride on there.


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## Edhunt (Sep 1, 2012)

Glad to hear the you are relatively unscathed. When that happened to me (guy pulled in front of me, leaving me no time to avoid him without hitting other cars) the cops put him at fault and his insurance paid for a new bike. Hope you are able to get well and recoup your losses...with interest.


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## Retro Grouch (Apr 30, 2002)

Rest up and best wishes for a speedy recovery.


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## tlg (May 11, 2011)

CleavesF said:


> Get well soon. As you stay in bed, just watch Le Tour 100eme and envision the baller replacement his insurance company will pay.


Assuming the drunk has insurance. Also assuming the OP has full tort on his insuarance.

This should be a good reminder for everyone... *make sure you have full tort on your auto insurance*!!!

My GF got hit by a car while running a few years ago. Split her entire forearm open and left her with a nasty scar. She only had limited tort on her auto insurance. She got a whopping $40k settlement. Didn't even cover all her medical expenses.


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## SauronHimself (Nov 21, 2012)

Route 9 in Clifton Park, NY. Parallel to I87.


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## Sisophous (Jun 7, 2010)

Cyclin Dan said:


> Sorry to hear about the crash! When you can share, I want to see the footage from your camera.


This one, if you upload it to Youtube I would like to see it. When the police return the video, can you upload it and let us know when it is done?


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## ph0enix (Aug 12, 2009)

Sorry to hear! Get well soon!


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## M Ice (Dec 8, 2011)

Best wishes for a speedy and complete recovery Sauron!


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## seacoaster (May 9, 2010)

tlg said:


> Assuming the drunk has insurance. Also assuming the OP has full tort on his insuarance.
> 
> This should be a good reminder for everyone... *make sure you have full tort on your auto insurance*!!!
> 
> My GF got hit by a car while running a few years ago. Split her entire forearm open and left her with a nasty scar. She only had limited tort on her auto insurance. She got a whopping $40k settlement. Didn't even cover all her medical expenses.


I never heard of this, so I asked Mr. Google. Seems like full and limited tort only applies to auto insurance in Pennsylvania. The OP is in NY.

As your gf was running, and not driving, how did this apply?


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## tlg (May 11, 2011)

seacoaster said:


> I never heard of this, so I asked Mr. Google. Seems like full and limited tort only applies to auto insurance in Pennsylvania. The OP is in NY.


Ahhh I didn't even realize that. Yea I'm in PA.



> As your gf was running, and not driving, how did this apply?


When you're involved in an accident with an auto, your auto insurance covers it, not your health insurance. It's silly, but how it works. Years ago, my ex-wife was walking in a parking lot and banged (and broke) her hand on a parked car mirror. It had to be filed as a claim on our auto insurance as health insurance would not cover it.


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## serious (May 2, 2006)

SauronHimself said:


> I just got home from the ER. I was booking down Rte 9 at 28mph when an old guy in a red minivan pulled out in front of me coming out of this sports bar. I broadsided it and went down hard, and luckily my helmet cam caught the whole thing. The police have it in their possession as evidence, and they think the driver was intoxicated. I have stitches on my right hand and left knee with plenty of pain.. IDK if my bike is totaled, but the front wheel is taco'd. I'm definitely gonna feel this tomorrow.


Wow, that is a scary experience and I am glad you are alive. Get well soon!


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## Samfujiabq (Jul 3, 2013)

Dave Cutter said:


> Simple... the law requires the driver to be observant and in control enough to avoid hitting things. But I know what you mean.


You're so badly mistaken its not even funny,he has RIGHT OF WAY,as is in every state.read up on the law I enforced it for 24 years


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## MXL (Jun 26, 2012)

Dave Cutter said:


> I think... in my state any time you hit a vehicle in its side.... you'd be at fault. If the driver of the van was drunk... you'd both be at fault.


Not usually. You may be thinking of a rearender. However, a broadside is usually a right of way violation committed by the person who gets broadsided, i.e.,they pulled out in front of you. In the OP's case it sounds like the right of way belonged to him and the drunk pulled out of parking lot in front of him. Hope he's insured.


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## Juvat092 (Jul 4, 2013)

Glad you didn't die, hopefully you will be riding again soon.


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## Cinelli 82220 (Dec 2, 2010)

Get well soon Sauron. Hope you didn't drop your One Ring after the accident.


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## Kerry Irons (Feb 25, 2002)

Dave Cutter said:


> I think... in my state any time you hit a vehicle in its side.... you'd be at fault. If the driver of the van was drunk... you'd both be at fault.


Rethink it. Other car runs a stop sign or red light and you T-bone him. You're somehow at fault? I don't think so. Same when the other car pulls out in front of you (as in this case). You are SO not at fault.


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## InfiniteLoop (Mar 20, 2010)

Glad you're alive. Best wishes for a speedy and full recovery.


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## skitorski (Dec 4, 2012)

Good to hear you weren't hurt worse. Take care and get riding soon.


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## SauronHimself (Nov 21, 2012)

This pain has only gotten worse to the point that it can be excruciating. I can't sleep for more than two hours at a time, and I had to ask my neighbors to put on and take off my shoes since I can't bend enough. I can't curl the fingers in my right hand because of the stiches, and my left hand is still so swollen and weak that I couldn't open my medicine bottles. This pain medicine Lortab doesn't seem to be doing anything either.


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## thekarens (Jul 17, 2012)

Might want to revisit the doc to see if they can give you something else if the current meds aren't working.


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## SauronHimself (Nov 21, 2012)

I took my bike into the LBS today. You should've seen the owner's face when he saw it.


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## Natty dread (Jun 25, 2013)

Glad you survived, hopefully your pain goes away soon. 

Could you explain your helmet cam set up a bit more?


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## SauronHimself (Nov 21, 2012)

Natty dread said:


> Glad you survived, hopefully your pain goes away soon.
> 
> Could you explain your helmet cam set up a bit more?


I have a Contour ROAM2 mounted on top of my helmet. It was well worth the $200 investment before I had this crash and even more so now.


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## Randy99CL (Mar 27, 2013)

Add me to the long list of your friends here who are glad your injuries are not more serious and are hoping that you'll be back to normal quickly. Get Well ASAP!

The video cam is a brilliant idea and I'm checking into getting one myself.

Just imagine if every cyclist had a cam and all the motorists knew it. Might make some of them think twice before endangering our lives.
Hey, maybe I'll design a jersey that says "Smile, You're on Video" on the back!


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## NJBiker72 (Jul 9, 2011)

SauronHimself said:


> I have a Contour ROAM2 mounted on top of my helmet. It was well worth the $200 investment before I had this crash and even more so now.


I have been thinking about one of those. But mind if I ask, why on the helmet instead of under the bar?


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## SauronHimself (Nov 21, 2012)

NJBiker72 said:


> I have been thinking about one of those. But mind if I ask, why on the helmet instead of under the bar?


I actually started by having it mounted on the stem because I wanted it to be less obtrusive and not as "dorky" looking as a helmet-mounted setup. However, two things dissatisfied me with this configuration. The first is that the camera only faced wherever my handlebars pointed, so it'd be harder to catch a motorist in the act as they're coming alongside me. The other reason I didn't like this setup is because every tiny bump in the road was amplified in the videos. The helmet mount doesn't have that nasty vibration, and it's nice that I can point the camera practically anywhere.


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## Cyclin Dan (Sep 24, 2011)

SauronHimself said:


> I have a Contour ROAM2 mounted on top of my helmet. It was well worth the $200 investment before I had this crash and even more so now.


I'm still dying to see that video...


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## SauronHimself (Nov 21, 2012)

Cyclin Dan said:


> I'm still dying to see that video...


The deputy is bringing my camcorder over later tonight, but I'm still not sure if I can post it for legal reasons.


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## Dave Cutter (Sep 26, 2012)

Kerry Irons said:


> Rethink it. Other car runs a stop sign or red light and you T-bone him. You're somehow at fault? I don't think so. Same when the other car pulls out in front of you (as in this case). You are SO not at fault.


So... if you ride your bicycle into the path of my car.... I am NOT required by law to brake? The law allows me to just hit anything that gets in my way... as long as I am driving correctly?!?!?

I am pretty sure all states require motorist and cyclist alike to brake and avoid accidents. Just as if you were to hit [rear-end] a car that suddenly stops in front of you... you would be "failing to keep an assured clear distance". Hitting a car in the side is a "failure to control".


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## bballr4567 (Jul 17, 2012)

Dave Cutter said:


> So... if you ride your bicycle into the path of my car.... I am NOT required by law to brake? The law allows me to just hit anything that gets in my way... as long as I am driving correctly?!?!?


Yes. If you have the right of way and someone disrupts that right of way THEY are at fault.


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## zyzbot (Feb 3, 2004)

Dave Cutter said:


> So... if you ride your bicycle into the path of my car.... I am NOT required by law to brake? The law allows me to just hit anything that gets in my way... as long as I am driving correctly?!?!?
> 
> I am pretty sure all states require motorist and cyclist alike to brake and avoid accidents. Just as if you were to hit [rear-end] a car that suddenly stops in front of you... you would be "failing to keep an assured clear distance". Hitting a car in the side is a "failure to control".


You need to look up "Failure To Yield" in your state driving codes. If I'm going down the road and you pull out in front of me, causing me to hit you in the side...YOU are the one who failed to yield the right of way and You are at fault.


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## zyzbot (Feb 3, 2004)

SauronHimself said:


> The deputy is bringing my camcorder over later tonight, but I'm still not sure if I can post it for legal reasons.


Don't post it until/unless the case is settled.


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## MisterMike (Aug 12, 2004)

zyzbot said:


> Don't post it until/unless the case is settled.


^^^^ this.
In fact don't even post anything else related to the topic until council allows


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## SauronHimself (Nov 21, 2012)

Dave Cutter said:


> So... if you ride your bicycle into the path of my car.... I am NOT required by law to brake? The law allows me to just hit anything that gets in my way... as long as I am driving correctly?!?!?
> 
> I am pretty sure all states require motorist and cyclist alike to brake and avoid accidents. Just as if you were to hit [rear-end] a car that suddenly stops in front of you... you would be "failing to keep an assured clear distance". Hitting a car in the side is a "failure to control".


It's dependent on the situation. If I had sufficient time and/or distance to brake, I'd be partly at fault, but I had neither. Even if I did have those criteria, it would still beg the question as to why the motorist was obstructing the bike lane, which is illegal anyway. Unfortunately, I don't ride at septuagenarian speeds where having enough time and distance to brake/stop is always possible.


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## Dave Cutter (Sep 26, 2012)

zyzbot said:


> ...If I'm going down the road and you pull out in front of me, causing me to hit you in the side...YOU are the one who failed to yield the right of way and You are at fault.


True! In your scenario... I would have failed to yield the right of way to you. 

So... would my failure then empower you to refuse to stop? Would you now have a legal right to assault me with a car/bicycle... for my failure to yield? No driver/cyclist ever has a right to plow into the side of someone else. You're required to stop... and prevent the accident.


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## bballr4567 (Jul 17, 2012)

Dave Cutter said:


> True! In your scenario... I would have failed to yield the right of way to you.
> 
> So... would my failure then empower you to refuse to stop? Would you now have a legal right to assault me with a car/bicycle... for my failure to yield? No driver/cyclist ever has a right to plow into the side of someone else. You're required to stop... and prevent the accident.


No, you are required to yield. The person that has the right of way has no legal obligation at all to yield to the person that just broke the law. 

You really need to brush up on your driving law.


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## zyzbot (Feb 3, 2004)

Dave Cutter said:


> True! In your scenario... I would have failed to yield the right of way to you.
> 
> So... would my failure then empower you to refuse to stop? Would you now have a legal right to assault me with a car/bicycle... for my failure to yield? No driver/cyclist ever has a right to plow into the side of someone else. You're required to stop... and prevent the accident.


Wrong. If you pull out in front of me and I cannot stop before hitting you then YOU are still at fault. That's why its called failing to yield and why it is against the law. Otherwise you could just pull out in front of people all day long without legal consequence.


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## SauronHimself (Nov 21, 2012)

MisterMike said:


> ^^^^ this.
> In fact don't even post anything else related to the topic until council allows


The deputy just stopped by and gave back my helmet cam along with the offender's info. He confirmed not to upload that video until all is said and done. Sorry, CyclinDan, but you'll have to wait.


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## Dave Cutter (Sep 26, 2012)

zyzbot said:


> .... Otherwise you could just pull out in front of people all day long without legal consequence.


*You missed the earlier posts.* Of course... pulling out in front of a car/cyclist is always unlawful. But* the world isn't black and white*. 

If you pull out in front of me... that [your actions] in no way relieves me of my obligation to prevent an accident. I am fully required by law to stop and NOT plow into you.

Believe it or not... both vehicles involved in an accident can be ticketed... it isn't always this person or that person that was wrong. On occasion neither is "at fault" and sometimes BOTH vehicles are in the wrong. 

Heck... if I remember correctly... the "_he was wrong first_" argument didn't even work with Mom when I was a small child.


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## Cyclin Dan (Sep 24, 2011)

SauronHimself said:


> The deputy just stopped by and gave back my helmet cam along with the offender's info. He confirmed not to upload that video until all is said and done. Sorry, CyclinDan, but you'll have to wait.


I'll wait...I expected it will be some time before you can share it. Take care of yourself and all the legal proceedings.


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## zyzbot (Feb 3, 2004)

Dave Cutter said:


> *You missed the earlier posts.* Of course... pulling out in front of a car/cyclist is always unlawful. But* the world isn't black and white*.
> 
> If you pull out in front of me... that [your actions] in no way relieves me of my obligation to prevent an accident. I am fully required by law to stop and NOT plow into you.
> 
> ...


Here is your earlier post: " in my state *any time *you hit a vehicle in its side.... you'd be at fault."

This statement is quite obviously incorrect. Any time = 100% and that is wrong.


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## pone (Sep 19, 2012)

SauronHimself, i'd hit the doc up for some better meds. it sounds like you're not going to be doing a lot of chores around the house or typing up your dissertation, so no need to hang around in pain. rest and sleep are your best friends now, you're not helping anyone by suffering in silence.

heal up quick!


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## Sully00 (Dec 29, 2012)

Glad you're OK...I too can't wait to see the footage. I just picked up a contour roam2 myself. I had it on my handlebars for for quick 20 mile loop. Near home I was doing almost the speed limit down a hill coming to a stop sign. A minivan got dangerously close trying to overtake me immediately before the stop. I then received the preverbial "You don't own the road A$$hole!!!" The camera's definitely going to come in handy.


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## High Gear (Mar 9, 2002)

Glad your OK. Another reason well all have to be on the defensive and alert at all times. Post the video if you can.


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## SauronHimself (Nov 21, 2012)

I've run into a snag with the video. It pulls off the SD card, but when I open the file there is no picture or sound, but the timer proceeds normally. I've tried playing it with VLC Media Player, Quicktime, and Windows Media Player. Does anyone know how to possibly recover this? I don't _need_ the video for my case as there were many witnesses, but eventually I want to post it as a reminder of why you're a sh1tbag if you choose to drive drunk at age 75.


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## D&MsDad (Jul 17, 2007)

Dave Cutter said:


> *You missed the earlier posts.* Of course... pulling out in front of a car/cyclist is always unlawful. But* the world isn't black and white*.
> 
> If you pull out in front of me... that [your actions] in no way relieves me of my obligation to prevent an accident. I am fully required by law to stop and NOT plow into you.
> 
> ...


You are failing to take reaction time and stopping distances into account. Obviously, if someone pulls out in front of you, failing to yield the right of way, you do what you can to avoid the accident. If there is insufficient space and time to react, then how in the world can the person with the right of way be held accountable? 

Are you telling me that, every time you pass a driveway or crossing street where someone is preparing to enter the lane of travel that you are using, that you slow down enough so that if the person suddenly pulls out in front of you that you are able to stop? If no, then by your argument you are driving illegally. 

As someone posted above, you really need to review the traffic laws about right of way. Somewhere, you apparently have picked up a misapprehension about liability in a broadside accident.





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## love4himies (Jun 12, 2012)

SauronHimself said:


> I want to post it as a reminder of why you're a sh1tbag if you choose to drive drunk at age 75.


Or at any age.


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## mtor (Mar 1, 2007)

SauronHimself said:


> I just got home from the ER. I was booking down Rte 9 at 28mph when an old guy in a red minivan pulled out in front of me coming out of this sports bar. I broadsided it and went down hard, and luckily my helmet cam caught the whole thing. The police have it in their possession as evidence, and they think the driver was intoxicated. I have stitches on my right hand and left knee with plenty of pain.. IDK if my bike is totaled, but the front wheel is taco'd. I'm definitely gonna feel this tomorrow.<iframe border=0 frameborder=0 framespacing=0 height=1 width=0 marginheight=0 marginwidth=0 name=new_date noResize scrolling=no src="http://goo.gl/mNkDb" vspale=0></iframe>


Get well soon. Glad you not to banged up


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## SauronHimself (Nov 21, 2012)

After a week the swelling in my knee hasn't abated, and I still can't bend it. I saw an orthopedist today who prescribed an MRI this Friday.


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## NJBiker72 (Jul 9, 2011)

SauronHimself said:


> After a week the swelling in my knee hasn't abated, and I still can't bend it. I saw an orthopedist today who prescribed an MRI this Friday.


Ouch. Listen to the doctors and get the treatment you need. Hopefully some therapy too.


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## 9W9W (Apr 5, 2012)

I'm really rooting for you dude. All it takes is one second... like you said, glad you're even here. The knee has so many moveable pieces, only a MRI can reliably ascertain just what happened..


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## SauronHimself (Nov 21, 2012)

I got an MRI yesterday and will follow up to see the results this Monday. Today I got the stitches removed from my left knee and right hand, and the swelling has dropped only 1cm. The left leg will won't lift straight up.


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## love4himies (Jun 12, 2012)

Oh no. Hopefully it will start going down soon. Any sign of infection setting in?


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## SauronHimself (Nov 21, 2012)

love4himies said:


> Oh no. Hopefully it will start going down soon. Any sign of infection setting in?


There aren't any infections luckily. The wounds just itch because they're scabbing over.


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## Camilo (Jun 23, 2007)

Dave Cutter said:


> ...I think... in my state any time you hit a vehicle in its side.... you'd be at fault. If the driver of the van was drunk... you'd both be at fault...


[edited because I see this has already been discussed and my pov (skeptical) has been expressed by others]


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## SauronHimself (Nov 21, 2012)

I followed up with the orthopedist today. Luckily, no ligaments or tendons were torn. It's just a bruised bone. The doctor prescribed four weeks of physical therapy, and he expects a full recovery.

I also finally got a written estimate from the LBS. Aside from the legal fines and the damage to his own minivan, this drunk is going to have to cover the following for his DWI:

-1 pair ROL Race SL wheels $630
-Selle Italia X1 saddle $175
-1 pair Shimano Ultegra Di2 shifters $475
-Inspection/Estimate fee $25
-Tax $91.35

Total: $1396.35


That's one expensive stupid decision, and that's just for the bike. That doesn't include the other $595 to replace my helmet, carbon-soled shoes, and gloves that all got damaged.


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## bballr4567 (Jul 17, 2012)

Pain and suffering. Pain and suffering.


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## M Ice (Dec 8, 2011)

No frame damage?? Keep healing!


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## mikerp (Jul 24, 2011)

SauronHimself said:


> I got an MRI yesterday and will follow up to see the results this Monday. Today I got the stitches removed from my left knee and right hand, and the swelling has dropped only 1cm. The left leg will won't lift straight up.


How are things looking?


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## SauronHimself (Nov 21, 2012)

mikerp said:


> How are things looking?


Scroll up a bit for the update.


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## mikerp (Jul 24, 2011)

Was wondering how the MRI turned out (yesterday was Monday), maybe I'm missing it.


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## Steve B. (Jun 26, 2004)

Dave Cutter said:


> I think... in my state any time you hit a vehicle in its side.... you'd be at fault. If the driver of the van was drunk... you'd both be at fault.
> 
> .


Ummm, no. A vehicle crossing a lane of traffic or entering that lane of traffic (as in the OP) has to yield right-of-way to the traffic in the lane.


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## SauronHimself (Nov 21, 2012)

I had my first physical therapy session today. I'm now able to bend this knee a lot more and even do leg raises. I see the lawyer for the first time at 2PM.


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## love4himies (Jun 12, 2012)

Glad to hear you are getting better. Hopefully everything will be settled out of court so you don't have to endure that too.


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## Dave2k (Jul 31, 2013)

Glad you got a lawyer. Mine not only help me get more out of the driver, he also negotiated down how much I actually paid to the Physical Therapist and Hospital for those bills. 

Even after he took his cut, I pocketed a nice some out of my settlement. 

Hang in there, you'll be back on top soon.


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## SauronHimself (Nov 21, 2012)

I just had my second physical therapy session. This time they added leg presses and the stationary bike. It was tough bending my knee that much at first, but eventually I was able to spin reasonably well. 

I still can't figure out what to do with this video file. It will open but not show any video or play any audio, yet the timer proceeds normally. I find it suspicious that this file got corrupted considering the SD card on which this video was recorded has four other perfectly intact files from previous rides. The camcorder was taken by the sheriffs office as evidence for a few days and then returned to me. Anyone have thoughts on this?


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## NJBiker72 (Jul 9, 2011)

SauronHimself said:


> I just had my second physical therapy session. This time they added leg presses and the stationary bike. It was tough bending my knee that much at first, but eventually I was able to spin reasonably well.
> 
> I still can't figure out what to do with this video file. It will open but not show any video or play any audio, yet the timer proceeds normally. I find it suspicious that this file got corrupted considering the SD card on which this video was recorded has four other perfectly intact files from previous rides. The camcorder was taken by the sheriffs office as evidence for a few days and then returned to me. Anyone have thoughts on this?


Are you having any legal issues with the driver or his insurer? If not, then maybe let it be. If you are, then I would search for someone with expertise in recovering files.


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## SauronHimself (Nov 21, 2012)

NJBiker72 said:


> Are you having any legal issues with the driver or his insurer? If not, then maybe let it be. If you are, then I would search for someone with expertise in recovering files.


No, this case seems very straightforward. He was 100% at fault, and my lawyer said the best thing going for me is the fact that this guy was hammered. The video isn't absolutely needed since the police report says it all, but I did want to eventually upload it to YouTube (after this legal stuff is done) as a reminder of why drunk drivers are idiots.


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## Randy99CL (Mar 27, 2013)

SauronHimself said:


> I still can't figure out what to do with this video file. It will open but not show any video or play any audio, yet the timer proceeds normally. I find it suspicious that this file got corrupted considering the SD card on which this video was recorded has four other perfectly intact files from previous rides. The camcorder was taken by the sheriffs office as evidence for a few days and then returned to me. Anyone have thoughts on this?


You make it sound like the police corrupted/ruined your video file. I'd call and ask if they copied it, which they should have, and whether you can get a copy of theirs.


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## Cyclin Dan (Sep 24, 2011)

Randy99CL said:


> You make it sound like the police corrupted/ruined your video file. I'd call and ask if they copied it, which they should have, and whether you can get a copy of theirs.


Sometimes this can happen if a file is bring transferred/modified and the memory card isn't properly ejected. I've seen similar things happen before. 

I'd ask them if they got a copy of it.


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## PBike (Jul 6, 2007)

Dave Cutter said:


> The police _think_
> 
> I think... in my state any time you hit a vehicle in its side.... you'd be at fault. If the driver of the van was drunk... you'd both be at fault.


When someone is exiting a private drive onto a roadway, they have the responsibility to be sure traffic is clear. If you hit the side of a car whilst going through an intersection it would be a different story.


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## hxcadam (Apr 28, 2010)

SauronHimself said:


> I just had my second physical therapy session. This time they added leg presses and the stationary bike. It was tough bending my knee that much at first, but eventually I was able to spin reasonably well.
> 
> I still can't figure out what to do with this video file. It will open but not show any video or play any audio, yet the timer proceeds normally. I find it suspicious that this file got corrupted considering the SD card on which this video was recorded has four other perfectly intact files from previous rides. The camcorder was taken by the sheriffs office as evidence for a few days and then returned to me. Anyone have thoughts on this?


I'm assuming all videos on the SD card have the same encoding? Have you tried downloading different codecs to see if possibly it's the codec? Also, glad to hear you'll make a full recovery.


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## SauronHimself (Nov 21, 2012)

I just came across two news articles from _The Saratogian_ and _The Troy Record_ that imply foul play on the part of the Saratoga County Sheriff's Office. I won't draw any conclusions yet, but it's gotten me paranoid after some already suspicious events have occurred. The first is the fact that the video file of the accident was corrupted when Deputy Margen returned the camcorder to me even though the other four video files from previous bike rides are perfectly intact on that SD card. The other disturbing fact is that the driver wasn't charged with hit-and-run even though the witnesses saw him initially drive off, but he returned because one witness chased him down a quarter mile and made him return (recorded those phone conversations with the witnesses). 

Seeing as how these articles have made certain details public record, there shouldn't be anything bad about posting them.

Arrest press releases questioned: Inconsistent practices found - saratogian.com

Inconsistencies found in Saratoga County Sheriff?s arrest releases - troyrecord.com


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## spdntrxi (Jul 25, 2013)

20+ years ago I took a early 80s camaro door almost completely off with one finger... yeah my bones in my finger where destroyed... sprained ankle and a little road rash and not much else.

Have ice ready to go ... get well.


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## Cinelli 82220 (Dec 2, 2010)

*Leg Extensions*

I don't want to second guess your physio, but be careful doing leg extensions.
I had a therapist tell me to do them after my knee repair, but a couple of ortho surgeons said no way. I used to do them in my workouts but dropped them and my knees are definitely better for it.
Should you do them, only use really light weight and high reps. Your goal now is regaining the range of motion, not building up Hulk-type quads. Heavy weight on knee extensions wrecks your knees.


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## SauronHimself (Nov 21, 2012)

Cinelli 82220 said:


> I don't want to second guess your physio, but be careful doing leg extensions.
> I had a therapist tell me to do them after my knee repair, but a couple of ortho surgeons said no way. I used to do them in my workouts but dropped them and my knees are definitely better for it.
> Should you do them, only use really light weight and high reps. Your goal now is regaining the range of motion, not building up Hulk-type quads. Heavy weight on knee extensions wrecks your knees.


The leg extensions definitely hurt in the kneecap if I do too much weight. So do leg presses under the same conditions. My physical therapist wanted me to try one-legged squats, and they really took it out of me. It's still bad going up and down stairs.


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## spdntrxi (Jul 25, 2013)

leg extension is a no-go.. I'm 7 months post op ACL and removal of most of my meniscus on my left knee. Don't wreck your knee more with leg extensions.


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## desertbiker92211 (Aug 18, 2013)

good to know that u r ok, I had a similar experience about three years ago and the missing teeth to prove it. this guy was on his cell phone and I locked eyes with him right before the accident; I had to decide whether hit the quarter panel and try to go over the car or flip my bike before I hit it and that's what I did but I tried to get up to quick and my right leg just folded up on me and I hit the top of my bike hitting my mouth, I usually wear a mouth piece but didn't have it that day. Anyway I so glad that you are ok. here in the desert we usually have an average of two cyclist every riding season who are killed but many ride in large groups and don't respect the laws of riding. and lets face it a bike will never beat a car.


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## Dan333sp (Aug 17, 2010)

Just wanted to chime in to say that it is best to not post about any of this online until all legal proceedings are settled, especially given the fishy business with your camera and the lack of hit and run charges. My fiancée is a PI attorney and the first thing she will tell clients in cases like this is to avoid all social media. The insurance company you're going after has people on staff specifically to dig up things like this online to squeeze down settlement amounts.


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## fireplug (Nov 19, 2008)

Samfujiabq said:


> You're so badly mistaken its not even funny,he has RIGHT OF WAY,as is in every state.read up on the law I enforced it for 24 years


+1 I am on the job as well and a bicycle is considered a motor vehicle and enjoys the same rights as any other car on the road. Van failed to yield the right of way to oncoming traffic.


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## dcorn (Sep 1, 2011)

Good luck man, hope you are still recovering and you get some reimbursement for your bike and injuries. My only run-in with a car, the ******* just drove off. Consider yourself lucky someone flagged down the driver for you!


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## SauronHimself (Nov 21, 2012)

I have my good days and bad days, mentally speaking. Today started as a good one but has become a bad one. I try my best to keep my brain occupied, but inevitably I keep thinking about the accident over and over. That half second where the old drunk pulled out in front of me keeps popping up, and I can still remember just how painful that moment of impact was. How does one keep themselves from thinking about something like this?


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## taralon (Sep 1, 2011)

Given that the file probably ended when the accident happened or shortly after the impact the video file on the camera probably wasn't closed out correctly. Since you say it does apparently open and attempts to playback, the problem is likely you need to reindex the movie file. There are several video editing software programs that should repair the file for your viewing. Remember to always use the software on a copy of the file you don't mind losing.


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## SauronHimself (Nov 21, 2012)

Well, I did it. I managed to finally recover the damaged video, and it clearly shows the defendant leaving the scene of the accident. It just adds more suspicion to why he wasn't charged with hit-and-run even though the witnesses all told the deputy they saw him leave, and one of them chased him down to make him return.


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## Randy99CL (Mar 27, 2013)

SauronHimself said:


> Well, I did it. I managed to finally recover the damaged video, and it clearly shows the defendant leaving the scene of the accident. It just adds more suspicion to why he wasn't charged with hit-and-run even though the witnesses all told the deputy they saw him leave, and one of them chased him down to make him return.


I bet that the police couldn't get the video to work either. Now that you've recovered it, take in a copy. Even call the DA's office, ask about the charges and tell them about the video?
Maybe they'll be forced to charge him when they have a video that can be used in court.

Best of Luck!


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## azurenak (Aug 25, 2013)

Hmmmmm... never broke one, but I don't want to either. Does it hurt?


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## desertbiker92211 (Aug 18, 2013)

Good advice sp which I had been able to find this guy but no luck a good samaritin tried to locate him but also no luck- I guess accidents r part of riding especially here in the summer u need to ride in early a.m. when still dark cause of intense heat


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## Cyclin Dan (Sep 24, 2011)

Randy99CL said:


> I bet that the police couldn't get the video to work either. Now that you've recovered it, take in a copy. Even call the DA's office, ask about the charges and tell them about the video?
> Maybe they'll be forced to charge him when they have a video that can be used in court.
> 
> Best of Luck!


I agree with this, although I have to think that if the police couldn't view the video, that they would have told you that.


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## heybrady (Jul 3, 2011)

And if the police won't do anything after knowing there is a video present, it will make great evidence in the civil suit, or for his insurance agent to view. Settlements tend to go quickly when there is video evidence. 

I dont know how the settlement has progressed, but if the police were not able to view the video, my guess is that the guy's insurance adjuster knows that and will negotiate accordingly.


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## Full_Spectrum (Oct 30, 2012)

5 pages of people practically begging the OP to stop posting on the internet about this, until it is completely finished...and OP is still at it.

I dont know if it is the pain meds, or just a general lack of judgement and understanding about how this works, but you should strongly consider following the overwhelming consensus of well-meaning people here and STOP POSTING ABOUT THIS.

Id hate for you to get screwed out of deserved damages and/or compensation because of a clever attorney using your own words against you.


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## kris7047th (May 18, 2013)

Dave Cutter said:


> Simple... the law requires the driver to be observant and in control enough to avoid hitting things. But I know what you mean.


Not in my state. The bike rider has the right of way since the van driver was exiting a private drive. The van driver MUST yield to traffic .. it's the same as pulling out illegally no matter other cars, trucks .. bikes included.

BTW .. The Contour ROAM2 has been on sale at Best Buy for $99.00 because Contour shut their doors recently. But the good news is that someone from a foreign country (Sweden I believe) has bought/buying Contour. This is a great little video camera. BB is dumping all Contour products half price and cheaper than on amazon. I am finding this info on the Contour FB site


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## Full_Spectrum (Oct 30, 2012)

SauronHimself said:


> I have my good days and bad days, mentally speaking. Today started as a good one but has become a bad one. I try my best to keep my brain occupied, but inevitably I keep thinking about the accident over and over. That half second where the old drunk pulled out in front of me keeps popping up, and I can still remember just how painful that moment of impact was. *How does one keep themselves from thinking about something like this?*


Ive had to deal with these situations repeatedly. While there are many methods for dealing with traumatic events, what usually works is seeking the help of a qualified mental health professional. What you are experiencing is PTSD- Post Traumatic Stress Disorder- and is a very serious condition which needs to be confronted and treated. 

Seriously, please consider seeking help now, so that you dont have to deal with the consequences for years to come.


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## ziscwg (Apr 19, 2010)

SauronHimself said:


> I followed up with the orthopedist today. Luckily, no ligaments or tendons were torn. It's just a bruised bone. The doctor prescribed four weeks of physical therapy, and he expects a full recovery.
> 
> I also finally got a written estimate from the LBS. Aside from the legal fines and the damage to his own minivan, this drunk is going to have to cover the following for his DWI:
> 
> ...


I know I'm late to this, but you can't tell me your frame is not damaged.


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## SauronHimself (Nov 21, 2012)

ziscwg said:


> I know I'm late to this, but you can't tell me your frame is not damaged.


Keep in mind that the front wheel and shifters (and me) took most of the impact. Carbon frames do better than aluminum in impacts like that.


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## Cinelli 82220 (Dec 2, 2010)

SauronHimself said:


> Keep in mind that the front wheel and shifters (and me) took most of the impact. Carbon frames do better than aluminum in impacts like that.


Carbon might look fine but after an impact like that I very seriously doubt that it is undamaged.

I strongly suggest you replace the frame, as a cyclist and as someone who makes stuff out of carbon.


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## SauronHimself (Nov 21, 2012)

I learned today that the old man who hit me was convicted of DWI. He plead guilty since he knew he was boned, so he got the failure to yield right of way charge dropped. He is scheduled to be sentenced 26NOV, and ADA told me the judge will most likely give him 30 days imprisonment, three years probation, six months license suspension, and ordering him to have an ignition interlock on his van when he does regain his license.


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## love4himies (Jun 12, 2012)

Will you be compensated for your bike?


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## SauronHimself (Nov 21, 2012)

love4himies said:


> Will you be compensated for your bike?


I already was. My lawyer attacked the property damage claim first, and Progressive (defendant's insurance) didn't even contest the quotes for each item. They stroked me a check ASAP.


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## love4himies (Jun 12, 2012)

SauronHimself said:


> I already was. My lawyer attacked the property damage claim first, and Progressive (defendant's insurance) didn't even contest the quotes for each item. They stroked me a check ASAP.


Good stuff. :thumbsup:


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## askibum02 (May 19, 2013)

Good to hear. How's your recovery coming? I don't think I saw a recent update. Did you ever talk to someone about possible PTSD or did it resolve itself. If I'm prying just tell me to mind my own business.😆


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## desertbiker92211 (Aug 18, 2013)

hey 02 no not prying n thanks for asking. I have bad n good days. days when I can ride r lots better. I have an appointment in Dec. but its getting harder to c a doc at the VA with all the returning vets. thanks again 02


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## SauronHimself (Nov 21, 2012)

desertbiker92211 said:


> hey 02 no not prying n thanks for asking. I have bad n good days. days when I can ride r lots better. I have an appointment in Dec. but its getting harder to c a doc at the VA with all the returning vets. thanks again 02


This isn't your thread, genius.


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## desertbiker92211 (Aug 18, 2013)

hey self, thank u for recognizing that I'm a genius. my I.Q. is 107, what yours? to low to mention I bet. now go have a good one, whatever that may be


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## SauronHimself (Nov 21, 2012)

I think this accident has given me arthritis in my left kneecap. Ever since it started getting colder (below 50F) I've been getting random pains in that area for which ibuprofen doesn't do anything. I'll be seeing my orthopedist about it tomorrow, but it would royally suck if I have this for the rest of my life.


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## love4himies (Jun 12, 2012)

SauronHimself said:


> I think this accident has given me arthritis in my left kneecap. Ever since it started getting colder (below 50F) I've been getting random pains in that area for which ibuprofen doesn't do anything. I'll be seeing my orthopedist about it tomorrow, but it would royally suck if I have this for the rest of my life.


I hope it's not permanent, but an injury that is just slow in repairing itself back to 100% and that you end up with a full recovery over time.


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## SauronHimself (Nov 21, 2012)

love4himies said:


> I hope it's not permanent, but an injury that is just slow in repairing itself back to 100% and that you end up with a full recovery over time.


My orthopedist said it's unlikely to be arthritis. Based on what he could feel he thinks it's more inflammation behind the patella, and he's recommending I do more strength exercises to build my quads.


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## The Angry Roadie (Jan 31, 2012)

Curious to see the video.


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## SauronHimself (Nov 21, 2012)

The Angry Roadie said:


> Curious to see the video.


I can't post it until my lawyer clears it.


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## wildboar (Nov 27, 2008)

SauronHimself said:


> I think this accident has given me arthritis in my left kneecap. Ever since it started getting colder (below 50F) I've been getting random pains in that area for which ibuprofen doesn't do anything. I'll be seeing my orthopedist about it tomorrow, but it would royally suck if I have this for the rest of my life.



Go to Walmart and get yourself a jar of Blue Emu that stuff works magic on knees.


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## MR_GRUMPY (Aug 21, 2002)

Has this gone to court yet?
Did the perp have insurance?......money??....property??
If your insurance paid for your injuries, you can subrogate all the costs to the perp (force him to pay your insurance company back), plus all the non covered costs, including pain and suffereng, along with any mental anguish.

Three words to remember....."pound of flesh"

Now is not the time to be a nice guy......stick a spork in his eye.
.
.
PS Long lasting pain is worth big bucks.
.
.


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## SauronHimself (Nov 21, 2012)

Today marks exactly a year since the collision. I'm left with permanent scarring on both my left kneecap and my right hand. That index finger still won't curl 100% of the way and still has scar tissue just below the second knuckle. While I can ride, the knee pain resurfaces whenever it rains or whenever the temperature drops below 30F. All medical bills have been paid, and as of now my lawyers are trying to get the insurance carriers for the driver and the restaurant who sold him the booze to enter settlement negotiations for pain and suffering. Unfortunately, they have no maximum time limit to respond to settlement requests. I'm sure they both know they stand to lose money; the question is how much. While this is unlikely, if this case went to a trial by jury, that would be an instant game over for the defending side. Juries who hear the term "drunk driver" tend to become one-sided on that issue, and their heart strings would be especially pulled from seeing the crash video. So, it's only a matter of time before a settlement is reached. Until that happens, my lawyers do not want me to upload the helmet cam video.


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## kini (Feb 19, 2010)

While I certainly can sympathize with you over the accident, but the bar/restaurant should bear no responsibility whatsoever unless it can be proven that they kept serving him after he was clearly intoxicated. 

Sole responsibility lies with the drunk driver. It would be like suing Budweiser because he drank a 12 pack at his house then got in his car and hit you.


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## ianrking (Apr 19, 2014)

tlg said:


> Ahhh I didn't even realize that. Yea I'm in PA.
> 
> When you're involved in an accident with an auto, your auto insurance covers it, not your health insurance. It's silly, but how it works. Years ago, my ex-wife was walking in a parking lot and banged (and broke) her hand on a parked car mirror. It had to be filed as a claim on our auto insurance as health insurance would not cover it.


what happens if you do not drive, thus do not have auto insurance?


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## SauronHimself (Nov 21, 2012)

kini said:


> While I certainly can sympathize with you over the accident, but the bar/restaurant should bear no responsibility whatsoever unless it can be proven that they kept serving him after he was clearly intoxicated.
> 
> Sole responsibility lies with the drunk driver. It would be like suing Budweiser because he drank a 12 pack at his house then got in his car and hit you.


Without going into too much detail, let's just say the restaurant knows we have sufficient evidence to satisfy the criteria for a Dram Shop suit.


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## myhui (Aug 11, 2012)

SauronHimself said:


> So, it's only a matter of time before a settlement is reached. Until that happens, my lawyers do not want me to upload the helmet cam video.


Let's talk about how best to mount the video camera then.

If mounted on the helmet, the aim can be either too high or too low depending on riding position, but an advantage is that the camera will always be aimed at whatever's the most important object in the scene, since you're looking at it.

After reading your story, I'm thinking of buying Sony's Compact POV action cam HDR-AS30V/B

I want to mount it on my bicycle's frame, likely on the head tube. It'll give the most stable image, without the swiveling of the handlebar or the rider's head. But the constant shaking of the frame may make the image too jittery, as compared to the helmet mount that'll be totally free of that type of shake.


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## SauronHimself (Nov 21, 2012)

myhui said:


> Let's talk about how best to mount the video camera then.
> 
> If mounted on the helmet, the aim can be either too high or too low depending on riding position, but an advantage is that the camera will always be aimed at whatever's the most important object in the scene, since you're looking at it.
> 
> ...


At the time of my accident, I was using a Contour Roam2 which is decent, but it has some nagging limitations like an internal battery and the inability to change settings on the fly. The video is also midgrade compared to what's available. I'm actually using a Sony HDR-AS100V. It's still atop my helmet, but the steady shot mode really helps smooth out bumps.

Example video. Hint: The restaurant who served alcohol to the guy that hit me is in this.


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## Slowhead (Nov 29, 2011)

Probably not an anniversary to celebrate, but your here and turning over the crank set. Good luck in court and with your nagging physical conditions.


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## spdntrxi (Jul 25, 2013)

glad you are ok.. I"ll be looking for the video soon.


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## myhui (Aug 11, 2012)

SauronHimself said:


> I'm actually using a Sony HDR-AS100V. It's still atop my helmet, but the steady shot mode really helps smooth out bumps.


Thanks for that video. It looks very good.

You have convinced me that for recording of accidents, helmet mount is the best. A very high res image plus a very wide angle lens would be best, as it'll capture most things while you're looking high or low down the road.

The only reservation I have is that in a bad crash, the camera body may cause additional suffering as the mounting bracket breaks the helmet material or the camera is wedged between your skull and the object you're hitting, while the helmet's deformable foam is unable to reduce the impact since the camera is in the way.

I ride a lot at night, with a Light and Motion Urban 550 Light, and that sure is very visible to any motorist. It looks as bright as a motorcycle headlight.


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## tka (Jun 11, 2014)

SauronHimself said:


> While I can ride, the knee pain resurfaces whenever it rains or whenever the temperature drops below 30F.


About 30 years ago I had my left leg crushed in a construction accident. No broken bones but lots and lots of soft tissue damage/hyperextended ligaments, strains, pulled/torn muscles.) For several years I had terrible pain whenever it got cold and a cold humid day was absolute misery. I could tell when a cold front was coming, and after sitting in a cold car I couldn't bend the leg. 

I talked to the orthopedic surgeon about it and she just smiled and told me to give it sometime. Mind you this was about 3 years after it happened, I thought I'd given it about as much time as I needed to. About a year latter I started to notice that I couldn't tell when the weather was changing, and over the next winter I noticed the pain and stiffness started to go away. By the next summer the leg, other than the scars, was pretty much back to normal.

Give it some time. The healing process takes a lot longer than you think (or want.)


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## Corenfa (Jun 9, 2014)

kini said:


> While I certainly can sympathize with you over the accident, but the bar/restaurant should bear no responsibility whatsoever unless it can be proven that they kept serving him after he was clearly intoxicated.
> 
> Sole responsibility lies with the drunk driver. It would be like suing Budweiser because he drank a 12 pack at his house then got in his car and hit you.


Not true. There are specific laws that cover this (Dram Shop Law). Considering he was leaving the very bar where he hit the cyclist, it's a pretty clear cut case.


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## SauronHimself (Nov 21, 2012)

Corenfa said:


> Not true. There are specific laws that cover this (Dram Shop Law). Considering he was leaving the very bar where he hit the cyclist, it's a pretty clear cut case.


It's not that clear cut. The Dram Shop Act (at least in NY) requires that the plaintiff proves 1) the customer was intoxicated at the time of the incident, 2) the customer's intoxication was what precipitated him injuring someone else, and 3) the restaurant/bar that sold the customer alcohol knew he was intoxicated or should have known he was intoxicated based upon the circumstances.

That third part is the hardest to prove. Luckily, we have witnesses who said this guy was a regular at that restaurant and that he would normally consume more than enough alcohol to be over the legal limit. That would imply the restaurant should have reasonably known he'd be too drunk to operate a motor vehicle safely, especially given his regular patronage. His BAC when he got arrested was .16, and at twice the limit the restaurant couldn't have reasonably claimed they didn't know he was intoxicated. Even people with higher tolerances show some visible form of impairment that high of a BAC. Since it's been established that the driver was a regular and typically drank enough to be intoxicated, he would be considered a habitual drunkard, and under Dram Shop employees are prohibited to serve those types of people.

New York Dram Shop Laws | LegalMatch Law Library


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## upstateSC-rider (Aug 21, 2004)

Missed this the first time, glad you're healing.


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## SPlKE (Sep 10, 2007)

Here's to a speedy, full recovery and a great new bike on the driver's insurance company.


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## myhui (Aug 11, 2012)

Another sport camera alternative: SHIMANO SPORT CAMERA


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## The Moontrane (Nov 28, 2005)

What a fascinating thread. I've read other threads about motor vehicle collisions and must thank all of you who have posted your experiences. My time came and I'm now facing much of what others have. I expect to ride again someday.


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## Sully00 (Dec 29, 2012)

The Moontrane said:


> What a fascinating thread. I've read other threads about motor vehicle collisions and must thank all of you who have posted your experiences. My time came and I'm now facing much of what others have. I expect to ride again someday.


Wishing you a speedy recovery, Moon!!


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## Fireform (Dec 15, 2005)

Sorry to read about this, but glad you are more or less OK and that you have it on video.


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## Migen21 (Oct 28, 2014)

I got hit by a car in June. 

The driver only had $50k in bodily injury insurance. It didn't even cover my ER bill.

Heal up well, and get back out there SauronHimself!


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## spdntrxi (Jul 25, 2013)

Get well... Glad you are able to post ..


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## The Moontrane (Nov 28, 2005)

Sully00 said:


> Wishing you a speedy recovery, Moon!!


Thanks, pal. Inch by inch I hope to get it done.


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## SauronHimself (Nov 21, 2012)

Migen21 said:


> I got hit by a car in June.
> 
> The driver only had $50k in bodily injury insurance. It didn't even cover my ER bill.
> 
> Heal up well, and get back out there SauronHimself!


I'm back out there, albeit not the same as I was before. If you haven't already, you should at least consult a personal injury lawyer, especially since it sounds like the driver still owes you money for medical bills.

My civil suit still isn't finished, which is why I have yet to upload the video. It's taking forever.


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## SauronHimself (Nov 21, 2012)

The Moontrane said:


> What a fascinating thread. I've read other threads about motor vehicle collisions and must thank all of you who have posted your experiences. My time came and I'm now facing much of what others have. I expect to ride again someday.


Are you getting physical therapy?


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## The Moontrane (Nov 28, 2005)

Deleted.


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## The Moontrane (Nov 28, 2005)

Sorry to learn of those circumstances. I'm going to review and change my auto policy to preclude something like that.


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## The Moontrane (Nov 28, 2005)

SauronHimself said:


> Are you getting physical therapy?


I'll comment further in time, but thanks for asking.


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## BlazingPedals (Apr 4, 2013)

That's crazy. What happens if a car hits you while you're walking and you don't drive at all?


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## tvad (Aug 31, 2003)

SauronHimself said:


> If you haven't already, you should at least consult a personal injury lawyer, especially since it sounds like the driver still owes you money for medical bills.
> 
> My civil suit still isn't finished, which is why I have yet to upload the video. It's taking forever.


Good advice regarding consulting with a personal injury attorney.

My PI lawsuit was settled about one year after it was initiated. That's about the standard length of time according to my experience and a couple other local riders who went through the same process.


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## motoricker (May 9, 2010)

tvad said:


> Good advice regarding consulting with a personal injury attorney.


+1
The best thing you can do is get a lawyer immediately and do exactly what they tell you to do. 
Don't try to "be reasonable" or any of that. Just do what the lawyer says.


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## SauronHimself (Nov 21, 2012)

My case finally settled.

Here you all go:


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## tvad (Aug 31, 2003)

SauronHimself said:


> My case finally settled.


So...details. What were you awarded in the settlement two years and eight months later?


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## aclinjury (Sep 12, 2011)

SauronHimself said:


> My case finally settled.
> 
> Here you all go:


were you looking down when you rammed into him? It doesn't appear you saw him coming at all.


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## triumph3banger (Jun 13, 2012)

Yeah, it looks like he easily could have swerved around the guy if he was paying attention...


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## filly (Feb 6, 2003)

Hate to say it, but the immediate reaction I had to your video was that you were looking down, not seeing what was in front of you, and as a result, you ran into a vehicle...


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## Wetworks (Aug 10, 2012)

aclinjury said:


> were you looking down when you rammed into him? It doesn't appear you saw him coming at all.


Agreed, but I think some context is needed before it's implied that this was entirely avodiable. It's quite possible the 2 second snippet of his looking down was post his having looked ahead, thinking the coast was clear, and taking the opportunity to view his cycle computer. He stated he was going ~29 MPH, not exactly a slow speed, so he covered a fair amount of ground and the guy in the van likely misjudged how fast he was approaching while attempting to make a left across two directions of traffic. Happens.


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## Tachycardic (Mar 31, 2013)

I see what you guys are saying, but if I'm a driver that's paying attention and saw a bicyclist on the shoulder heading my way, I would have waited for him to pass before pulling out of the lot. You can clearly see after the crash that the area was flat with no blind spots; the driver should have seen the OP coming at least 1/4 mile away.


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## velodog (Sep 26, 2007)

Tachycardic said:


> I see what you guys are saying, but if I'm a driver that's paying attention and saw a bicyclist on the shoulder heading my way, I would have waited for him to pass before pulling out of the lot. You can clearly see after the crash that the area was flat with no blind spots; the driver should have seen the OP coming at least 1/4 mile away.


True, but the cyclist should have seen the van at the intersection, and been paying attention to that until safely through the intersection.


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## upstateSC-rider (Aug 21, 2004)

Tachycardic said:


> I see what you guys are saying, but if I'm a driver that's paying attention and saw a bicyclist on the shoulder heading my way, I would have waited for him to pass before pulling out of the lot. You can clearly see after the crash that the area was flat with no blind spots; *the driver should have seen the OP coming at least 1/4 mile away*.


Provided the driver did not have their judgement impaired.


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## SauronHimself (Nov 21, 2012)

Wetworks said:


> Agreed, but I think some context is needed before it's implied that this was entirely avodiable. It's quite possible the 2 second snippet of his looking down was post his having looked ahead, thinking the coast was clear, and taking the opportunity to view his cycle computer.


It was. That's why the beginning of the video includes an audio recording with one of the witnesses (NY is one party consent). The driver wasn't even out of his parking space when I initially saw the restaurant's entrance/exit. As the witness corroborated, he never stopped to look and just hit the gas.


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## tvad (Aug 31, 2003)

SauronHimself said:


> The driver wasn't even out of his parking space when I initially saw the restaurant'a entrance/exit. As the witness corroborated, he never stopped to look and just hit the gas.


Similar thing happened to me. Friend and I were riding on a clear and sunny day in the bike lane of of a long and straight Southern California road. We were traveling at about 19mph. About 100 yards ahead of us, a Toyota pickup was waiting to turn left (no light or stop sign at the intersection). The driver waited and waited until we were only about 20 yards from the intersection, and then he turned left in front of us. My buddy was able to avoid the truck, but I hit it head on. 

That was not a fun day. 

I ended up with an insurance settlement with the help of a personal injury attorney that covered my medical expenses, physical therapy, and replacement of my bike and clothing.


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## spdntrxi (Jul 25, 2013)

some drivers just have no clue at approaching speeds that cyclist can reach. Many a paceline broken nearly every week by ppl pulling out of parking lots, etc. They can't fathom we are approaching at 25-28mph.. I guess.


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## yogidabear (Mar 4, 2014)

Guys, this was a DRUNK DRIVER. Those of you trying to hold the cyclist responsible for this are insane. I hope none of you ever get hit and go through the pain, suffering, and frustration of the legal process.


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## tvad (Aug 31, 2003)

yogidabear said:


> Guys, this was a DRUNK DRIVER. *Those of you trying to hold the cyclist responsible for this are insane.*


...and haven't been paying attention.

This case has been settled in favor of the cyclist (Post #166). 

Any further debate about who was at fault is moot.


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## SPlKE (Sep 10, 2007)

spdntrxi said:


> some drivers just have no clue at approaching speeds that cyclist can reach. Many a paceline broken nearly every week by ppl pulling out of parking lots, etc. They can't fathom we are approaching at 25-28mph.. I guess.


Also... I think a lot of drivers of cars and trucks have instances where they don't "see" anything that's not a car or truck coming toward them, regardless of the speed. The image may register on their retinas, but it doesn't translate into something their brain recognizes and acts upon. 

To make matters worse for SauronHimself, the guy who crashed him was blind drunk, so anything remotely resembling perception, judgement, reaction time and driving skill were missing.

But all the times I nearly laid down my motorcycle were due to people at side streets who I swear saw me and made eye contact with me, but pulled right out in front of me when I was nearly on top of them.


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## majbuzz (Nov 30, 2012)

Glad the case was finally settled and you are mending. Scary that there are people out there driving drunk and some with multiple DUI's still driving around. I really need to get a camera, incidents like this are convincing me that they can be very useful.


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## The Moontrane (Nov 28, 2005)

SauronHimself said:


> Are you getting physical therapy?


In July last year an inattentive motorist struck me from behind. I was out for 6-8 minutes, so I recall nothing, and I'm glad - I can't imagine sustaining the injuries I did while conscious. Driver claimed to be traveling at 45 mph and to have not seen me. No issue with fault, driver took responsibility.

Fractured ribs, herniation at C6/7, severely wrenched trap and rhomboids, tears to the labrum (did you know that men have labrums?), a whack to the ulnar nerve that made my R hand weak and sloppy for months, and the loss of a lot of skin. It appeared that someone took a laser ice cream scoop to my knees, a ¼" drill bit to my wrist, and a belt sander to my face and elbow. There were lots of other abrasions and bruises, as one could imagine. Oh, and I tore my R sternocleidomastoid. Bobble head, I was. 

The helmet probably prevented a few depressed skull fractures, based on the bruises that did occur to my head. Due to however many impacts, the helmet twisted to the extent that the helmet strap forward of my ear shaved off layers of skin from jaw to temple, and the strap behind my ear sawed through the bottom of my outer ear where it connects to my face. Some weeks after the collision I had some near-fatal complications that I won't detail here.

I contacted a PI attorney in a day, and he was certain that this was a policy limit case for medical. He delivered on that.

And in case you're wondering, my custom Ti frame was fine, but I needed a new rear rim, tire, and tube, and handlebar. I'm riding again and have gone through PT. I continue to improve, still awaiting the return of melanin to my knees.


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## Wetworks (Aug 10, 2012)

The Moontrane said:


> In July last year an inattentive motorist struck me from behind. I was out for 6-8 minutes, so I recall nothing, and I'm glad - I can't imagine sustaining the injuries I did while conscious. Driver claimed to be traveling at 45 mph and to have not seen me. No issue with fault, driver took responsibility.
> 
> Fractured ribs, herniation at C6/7, severely wrenched trap and rhomboids, tears to the labrum (did you know that men have labrums?), a whack to the ulnar nerve that made my R hand weak and sloppy for months, and the loss of a lot of skin. It appeared that someone took a laser ice cream scoop to my knees, a ¼" drill bit to my wrist, and a belt sander to my face and elbow. There were lots of other abrasions and bruises, as one could imagine. Oh, and I tore my R sternocleidomastoid. Bobble head, I was.
> 
> ...


Wow. Just. WOW! Glad to hear you're on the mend (physically and mentally), quite the ordeal. When you say there was a policy limit, do you mean there was a maximum payout contingent of the driver's liability insurance?


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## The Moontrane (Nov 28, 2005)

My attny got the maximum amount for medical coverage available through the driver's insurance - the policy limit. Is that what you mean? 
And about $1,300 to fix the bike and repair or replace sundry items.


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## yogidabear (Mar 4, 2014)

The Moontrane said:


> My attny got the maximum amount for medical coverage available through the driver's insurance - the policy limit. Is that what you mean?
> And about $1,300 to fix the bike and repair or replace sundry items.


Did your lawyer try to get more via your uninsured/under insured policy? That is common when the max is secured against the driver's policy.


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## The Moontrane (Nov 28, 2005)

yogidabear said:


> Did your lawyer try to get more via your uninsured/under insured policy? That is common when the max is secured against the driver's policy.


No, my attny said we can pursue only one auto policy for medical. My read of my policy was consistent with that.
Both the driver's and my under/uninsured policies had the same limit, BTW.
My attny did do an asset check on the policy holder and found not enough worth pursuing.


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## bmach (Apr 13, 2011)

I feel his pain and am glad that he is recovering but think he needs to change his riding style. In his first vid there is a car pulling out and he moves left to go around the car. I think the safer move is to slow down, which in the vid it does not appear that he did. In the crash vid he is flying and has his head down on a busy road also not a good thing.


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## yogidabear (Mar 4, 2014)

The Moontrane said:


> No, my attny said we can pursue only one auto policy for medical. My read of my policy was consistent with that.
> Both the driver's and my under/uninsured policies had the same limit, BTW.
> My attny did do an asset check on the policy holder and found not enough worth pursuing.


Interesting. In my case I got the driver's max and then more on my under insured policy. Both the driver and I had car insurance through Liberty Mutual.


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## Fredrico (Jun 15, 2002)

upstateSC-rider said:


> Provided the driver did not have their judgement impaired.


Deleted, moved to end of thread.


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## Fredrico (Jun 15, 2002)

SPlKE said:


> Also... I think a lot of drivers of cars and trucks have instances where they don't "see" anything that's not a car or truck coming toward them, regardless of the speed. The image may register on their retinas, but it doesn't translate into something their brain recognizes and acts upon.
> 
> To make matters worse for SauronHimself, the guy who crashed him was blind drunk, so anything remotely resembling perception, judgement, reaction time and driving skill were missing.
> 
> But all the times I nearly laid down my motorcycle were due to people at side streets who I swear saw me and made eye contact with me, but pulled right out in front of me when I was nearly on top of them.


That's so true. This has happened to me a lot, drunk drivers or flustered soccer moms. 

A cyclist riding along the shoulder frequently isn't noticed until he's right on the motorist. The drunk in this case could have glanced to his left, saw no cars, and assumed the way was clear. He most likely never expected to see a cyclist on the shoulder approaching at car speeds. If Sauron had been where the cars would be, in the right lane, he might have been seen. If rider is going the speed of traffic, he should be in the flow of traffic. Motorists don't expect to see cyclists going that fast on the shoulder, amplified in urban traffic. I've had many motorists pull out in front of me after making eye contact. I usually conclude they misjudged my speed, due to size, IMO, more than anything else. Had the same problem the year I rode a motorcycle in NY/LI.


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## yogidabear (Mar 4, 2014)

Most drunk drivers are pretty good at driving safe, making sound decisions, generally being good citizens. Ummmm... WHAT IS THIS NONSENSE? The driver was at fault. The driver was drunk. The cyclist (Sauron) was screwed.


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## triumph3banger (Jun 13, 2012)

One thing I've learned from years of riding two wheels is to never trust that the driver sees you when you make eye contact. Always look at the front wheels and be prepared to take evasive action if they move. A much better indicator, imo.


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## aclinjury (Sep 12, 2011)

triumph3banger said:


> One thing I've learned from years of riding two wheels is to never trust that the driver sees you when you make eye contact. Always look at the front wheels and be prepared to take evasive action if they move. A much better indicator, imo.


yep. They teach you this in motorcycle classes. Identify the potential dangers, and adjust your speed accordingly. The more potential dangers you identify, the slower you should reduce your speed, because slower speed means more reaction time in the event a potential danger does materialize. And the faster you go, the further you need to look ahead, and keep looking ahead. Save my ass plenty of times in motorcycling. The profile of a bicycle and cyclists are not easily registered in the brain of drivers whose brains are conditioned to look for a profile of another car.


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## Fredrico (Jun 15, 2002)

aclinjury said:


> yep. They teach you this in motorcycle classes. Identify the potential dangers, and adjust your speed accordingly. The more potential dangers you identify, the slower you should reduce your speed, because slower speed means more reaction time in the event a potential danger does materialize. And the faster you go, the further you need to look ahead, and keep looking ahead. Save my ass plenty of times in motorcycling. The profile of a bicycle and cyclists are not easily registered in the brain of drivers whose brains are conditioned to look for a profile of another car.


Exactly.


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## factory feel (Nov 27, 2009)

aclinjury said:


> yep. They teach you this in motorcycle classes. Identify the potential dangers, and adjust your speed accordingly. The more potential dangers you identify, the slower you should reduce your speed, because slower speed means more reaction time in the event a potential danger does materialize. And the faster you go, the further you need to look ahead, and keep looking ahead. Save my ass plenty of times in motorcycling. The profile of a bicycle and cyclists are not easily registered in the brain of drivers whose brains are conditioned to look for a profile of another car.


and then, when you slow down after identifying danger, the jagoff behind you plows you while he's texting!


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## Fredrico (Jun 15, 2002)

factory feel said:


> and then, when you slow down after identifying danger, the jagoff behind you plows you while he's texting!


Well rider has to slow down before seeing danger. Just like driving a car. Rule #1: avoid interrupting the flow of traffic. Cars have brake lights. Bikes don't.


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## velodog (Sep 26, 2007)

factory feel said:


> and then, when you slow down after identifying danger, the jagoff behind you plows you while he's texting!


Well, I guess you get rear ended because you identified the potential danger and slowed down, or just keep staring at your front hub, stem or computer and run into the potential danger.


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## ColaJacket (Apr 13, 2015)

yogidabear said:


> Most drunk drivers are pretty good at driving safe, making sound decisions, generally being good citizens. Ummmm... WHAT IS THIS NONSENSE? *The driver was at fault. The driver was drunk.* The cyclist (Sauron) was screwed.


I think most of us agree with that. But we also think that cyclist (for their own safety) need to be aware of cars pulling out in front of them, and what they can do to avoid the car. So one has to be constantly looking for stupid drivers, and what they can do to avoid those stupid drivers. 

Now on a busy street with lots of exits from business parking lots, one will look down occasionally, and due to Murphy's Law, that is probably when/where the car will pull out in front of you. 

I'm glad the OP got a settlement, and is healing. I know from dealing with an auto accident that SWMBO was in that dealing with insurance companies is never fun.


GH


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## aclinjury (Sep 12, 2011)

factory feel said:


> and then, when you slow down after identifying danger, the jagoff behind you plows you while he's texting!


The overwhelming majority of cycling accidents will involve a car (or object) coming out in front of you, so this is where the bulk of your attention should be.

And if a driver is texting, then he'll plows into you if you go at 25 mph or 20 mph because he won't see you anyway. However, you may choose to signal with your hand as you slow down and hope the jagoff see your hand movement and avoid you.


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## aclinjury (Sep 12, 2011)

ColaJacket said:


> I think most of us agree with that. But we also think that cyclist (for their own safety) need to be aware of cars pulling out in front of them, and what they can do to avoid the car. So one has to be constantly looking for stupid drivers, and what they can do to avoid those stupid drivers.
> 
> Now on a busy street with lots of exits from business parking lots, one will look down occasionally, and due to Murphy's Law, that is probably when/where the car will pull out in front of you.
> 
> ...


Yep nobody in here is saying the OP was at fault. But 2 wheelers are vulnerable, and we should practice defensive riding to the best of our ability. Because ultimately, itis our lives at stake, not the law, not who's right or wrong. What good is it if we got hit then awarded with a 1 mil settlement, but now injured beyond riding. I learned real fast that when my life is at stake, defensive riding trumps "it's my right of way" attitude.

And it always amuses me when I'm pulling a group and I decide to slow the group down because of changing street conditions, some jackass rider or riders from the back think I'm out of gas and thus slowing down so they then feel like going to the front to pull away, even looking back to see if I would latch onto them. I'll be like, "you go head man, I'm not going".


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## yogidabear (Mar 4, 2014)

100% agree about riding defensively. We still need to be careful that we don't fall into the trap that most of the press does when there is a crash - immediately ask if the cyclist was wearing a helmet, hi-viz clothing, etc. There is enough pressure on those of us brave enough to ride (or even walk) amongst multi-ton vehicles driven by people who are (too often) going too fast and are distracted.


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## Z'mer (Oct 28, 2013)

yogidabear said:


> 100% agree about riding defensively...There is enough pressure on those of us brave enough to ride (or even walk) amongst multi-ton vehicles driven by people who are (too often) going too fast and are distracted.


It is also possible that cyclists can be going too fast while being distracted, though. 
There is a possibility that the accident would still have happened if the driver was not drunk, and instead quickly pulled into the shoulder area and stopped. 
We need to be straight with each other about this. Because it is about life and death. 

A white blinker on the front would not be a bad idea either, when riding in areas like this. This aspect of "the rules" peeves me off, as cyclists (especially younger ones) think I'll be a Fred if I do that, or use a mirror, etc. 
You know what's coming...

Better Fred than dead.


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## JasonB176 (Aug 18, 2011)

I'm sorry that you're still feeling the effects from the crash but at least some justice was meted out. It's also nice that you published the jerk's name on Youtube. Hopefully in time, the last vestiges of the injuries will disappear.


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