# Embro sucks



## adam_mac84 (Sep 22, 2010)

My legs are on fire, and my race was 5 hours ago... i wish they were this hot when i was riding... Hot when i end my warmup, no effect during race, burn the entire way home, and the rest of the night lol


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## ZoomBoy (Jan 28, 2004)

What did you use? You need to use an alcohol based spray to remove it before you shower. The hot water will just reactivate it so to speak.


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## steve_e_f (Sep 8, 2003)

It just seems like an added layer of complexity (and slime). I've never used it or chami butter, and I have no regrets.

But then again... maybe I don't know what I'm missing?


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## jroden (Jun 15, 2004)

just buy a bottle of rubbing alcohol and clean your legs up with a rag after the race.

I'm not really keen on those creams either. I do like some baby oil on my legs to keep the water off, but the warming stuff seems kind of hokey. If it's cold I just wear knicker shorts so my knees are all covered up. It's a short race in the cold, I don't mind having a little extra clothing on


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## JohnStonebarger (Jan 22, 2004)

I've never understood it anyway. A chemical reaction to make the surface of my skin feel warm? Is that a good thing? I want more blood at the skin why?


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## jroden (Jun 15, 2004)

i learned in school that they are counter irritants that cause a little bit of skin irritation to cause the blood vessels to vasio dilate and make your skin feel a little warmer.

The professionals were not allowed to wear anything but shorts on their legs until recently, so they used all sorts of junk. Now I think they can just wear clothes instead and generally do, but maybe I'm wrong.


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## pretender (Sep 18, 2007)

Why were you using for the first time at a race?


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## pretender (Sep 18, 2007)

P.S. Weird how it felt hot before the race, hot after race, but had no effect during the race. That's some magic stuff.


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## JohnStonebarger (Jan 22, 2004)

jroden said:


> i learned in school that they are counter irritants that cause a little bit of skin irritation to cause the blood vessels to vasio dilate and make your skin feel a little warmer.


But wouldn't that be counterproductive? It sounds like fooling the body into acting as if it isn't cold, misdirecting blood to the coldest part of the leg and away from working muscle.

Am I missing something? To me it doesn't seem like a good idea at all, whether or not it's "effective."


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## Reparto (Apr 25, 2007)

Medium embro works well for me. Down to 25*. I've been using it for years and never had an issue.


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## tsunayoshi (Dec 3, 2009)

I don't think embro actually does anything physiologically other than make your legs FEEL warm so that you are physically less uncomfortable. From what I understand embro is the bee knees in cold/wet conditions where having cold & wet knee warmers or knickers would be extremely uncomfortable.

I got stuck out on an mtb ride in the upper 40's when it poured, and once my warmers got soaked it felt like I had bags of ice strapped to my knees, totally killed the fun factor of the ride. If I'd had embro, they would have at least felt warm...

Oh, and as one of our race announcers always advises to all new cx newbs, the correct order of getting dressed is shorts/bibs 1st, embro 2nd...it only takes doing it the other way once to teach you the correct way


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## ZoomBoy (Jan 28, 2004)

jroden said:


> The professionals were not allowed to wear anything but shorts on their legs until recently, so they used all sorts of junk. Now I think they can just wear clothes instead and generally do, but maybe I'm wrong.


Huh? Never heard of this before. If there ever was such a rule it was changed well over 10 years ago. For me if it's cold and wet I use embro. If it's just cold I cover-up with warmers or tights. Wet clothing against my legs makes me feel colder....


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## ronderman (May 17, 2010)

Yea, the stuff sucks and it's a total trendy thing. 

If it's raining and there is a little chill - baby oil will do the trick plenty fine and it wont cost $25 a jar.

I call BS, embro on a 25 degree day - I"ll believe that when I see it and I want to see someone do 3 hours. Like I said, I call BS.


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## bikenerd (Jan 22, 2004)

I love embro. It's better than warmers when it's cold and wet, the smell clears my sinuses and is super pro. I like the sheen on the legs and the fact that dirt and grass sticks to it. Plus the milder versions are great on toast.


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## ronderman (May 17, 2010)

bikenerd said:


> I love embro. It's better than warmers when it's cold and wet, the smell clears my sinuses and is super pro. I like the sheen on the legs and the fact that dirt and grass sticks to it. Plus the milder versions are great on toast.


Let's be clear - it's "pro" to the guys who ride for Embrocation, the rapha riders and readers of red kite prayer. That's not everyone. You want to clear our your sinuses, then use a neti pot and throw some peppermint on your jersey - Eddy did it, too.

I agree embro has it's place for a very specific ride (e.g., raining in the 50s). other than that, it's for show cause dudes like to sheen up their legs - let's not act like it's something it's not.


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## jroden (Jun 15, 2004)

ZoomBoy said:


> Huh? Never heard of this before. If there ever was such a rule it was changed well over 10 years ago. For me if it's cold and wet I use embro. If it's just cold I cover-up with warmers or tights. Wet clothing against my legs makes me feel colder....


1.3.026 When competing, all riders shall wear a jersey with sleeves and a pair of shorts, possibly in the form of a one-piece skinsuit. By shorts it is understood that these are shorts that come above the knee.

1.3.033 It shall be forbidden to wear non-essential items of clothing [or items designed to reduce air resistance].


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## adam_mac84 (Sep 22, 2010)

pretender said:


> Why were you using for the first time at a race?


I had used it during rides before with no ill effect. It was 38*, so i thought id try it... it's funny that when i want it to do something, it does nothing... Oh well, i'll try anything (legal) once


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## pretender (Sep 18, 2007)

Just because it didn't give the sensation that you desired and/or expected doesn't mean it was doing nothing. And there's a point where it just gets too damn cold.

For myself, I just use the medium heat stuff, and add tights or knickers when it gets real cold. Unlike the hot stuff, I don't have to treat it like it's nuclear waste or whatnot. I've never had to use any special soap to wash it off, never had any extreme discomfort, and it has helped keep the legs firing.


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## ZoomBoy (Jan 28, 2004)

jroden said:


> 1.3.026 When competing, all riders shall wear a jersey with sleeves and a pair of shorts, possibly in the form of a one-piece skinsuit. By shorts it is understood that these are shorts that come above the knee.
> 
> 1.3.033 It shall be forbidden to wear non-essential items of clothing [or items designed to reduce air resistance].


So knickers, knee warmers, leg warmers and tights are against the rules then? That is how I interpreted your comment on the shorts only rule. I've seen plenty of video from the mid 90's to present day that shows otherwise. That is all I was getting at......


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## spacemanrides (Aug 11, 2006)

ZoomBoy said:


> So knickers, knee warmers, leg warmers and tights are against the rules then? That is how I interpreted your comment on the shorts only rule. I've seen plenty of video from the mid 90's to present day that shows otherwise. That is all I was getting at......


I'm not reading from the rule book, but I believe, technically speaking, knee warmers are not allowed and leg warmers are only allowed below something like 10 degrees C.


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## ZoomBoy (Jan 28, 2004)

I stand corrected. I found this gem of an article on CX mag:

http://www.cxmagazine.com/uci-cyclocross-rules-violations-explained

Even though I've seen tons of footage where guys are covering their knees or more it is against UCI rules. I guess it depends on the conditions if this rule is enforced or not!


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## jroden (Jun 15, 2004)

ZoomBoy said:


> I stand corrected. I found this gem of an article on CX mag:
> 
> http://www.cxmagazine.com/uci-cyclocross-rules-violations-explained
> 
> Even though I've seen tons of footage where guys are covering their knees or more it is against UCI rules. I guess it depends on the conditions if this rule is enforced or not!


i'm not sure, i thought they either modified the rule or allow the chief ref to have some discretion on race day or just blow it off.

UCI races are a different beast from USAC, it's not hard to get fined for making an honest mistake.

It seems like a crappy thing to make riders race 6 hours in the cold rain under dressed just so they make better advertisements for the sponsors


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## LMN (Oct 28, 2011)

I have been at road race where they enforce the no knee warmer rule. Any have an idea why such a rule exists?


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## JPHcross (Aug 15, 2006)

I have been at a CX race and the commassaire told everyone to remove arm, knee and leg warmers, it was 5C (under 40F) and raining so the extra layer was needed in my mind. This was 4 or 5 years ago, it is only occurance I have seen of the rule being enforced.


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## aengbretson (Sep 17, 2009)

I use a medium-strength oil-based balm and I find it helps keep water and wind from reaching my skin. Just keeping the wind off of my legs means the embrocation is worth it. I can race in shorts at 5°C with no problems when using a good slathering of it.


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## Reparto (Apr 25, 2007)

Oh no. A stranger on a forum calls bs on riding in the cold with embro on. I ride year round outside in CO. And not in Denver. If you want to see it to believe it than swing by in Jan/Feb. Not everyone is a p***y.


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## ronderman (May 17, 2010)

Reparto said:


> Oh no. A stranger on a forum calls bs on riding in the cold with embro on. I ride year round outside in CO. And not in Denver. If you want to see it to believe it than swing by in Jan/Feb. Not everyone is a p***y.


I think you just threw an insult at me. OK, two can play, I'm a big boy.

You. Are. An. Amateur. Cyclist. Who. Uses. The. Word. "Pro." And. You. Add. Sheen. To. Your. Legs. All. While. Paying. To. "Race." Your. Bike. (if you can call what you do, "racing.")

So, to sum, you, sir, are the equivalent of the best church basketball player, but minus 5k for your trendy bike stuff and 40 IQ points for putting embro on year round. :blush2:


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## spacemanrides (Aug 11, 2006)

ronderman said:


> I think you just threw an insult at me. OK, two can play, I'm a big boy.
> 
> You. Are. An. Amateur. Cyclist. Who. Uses. The. Word. "Pro." And. You. Add. Sheen. To. Your. Legs. All. While. Paying. To. "Race." Your. Bike. (if you can call what you do, "racing.")
> 
> So, to sum, you, sir, are the equivalent of the best church basketball player, but minus 5k for your trendy bike stuff and 40 IQ points for putting embro on year round. :blush2:


LOL! I use embro, but that cracked me up.


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## bikenerd (Jan 22, 2004)

ronderman said:


> So, to sum, you, sir, are the equivalent of the best church basketball player, but minus 5k for your trendy bike stuff and 40 IQ points for putting embro on year round. :blush2:


And you, sir, have extremely strong, unshakeable opinions on something that boils down to personal preference. So we all win. Errr, lose. I'm not sure.

Moving on, I hear they're putting disc brakes on cross bikes these days. Anyone have an opinion on that?


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## ZoSoSwiM (Mar 7, 2008)

I used some Badger Balm before a crit this summer.. Put it on before I drove to the race which was about 2 hours away. It started getting warm about an hour into the drive. By the time I started warming up it was nice and toasty. By the time I was ready to race my legs were on FIRE.. On the drive back afterwards I was in agony. I learned my lesson that day.


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## Reparto (Apr 25, 2007)

All I heard was, "I don't want to ride with you because I will get cold". And I never used the word "pro".


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## ronderman (May 17, 2010)

bikenerd said:


> And you, sir, have extremely strong, unshakeable opinions on something that boils down to personal preference. So we all win. Errr, lose. I'm not sure.
> 
> Moving on, I hear they're putting disc brakes on cross bikes these days. Anyone have an opinion on that?


I quote George Carlin "I don’t have pet peeves — I have major psychotic ****ing hatreds!" :thumbsup:


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## ronderman (May 17, 2010)

Reparto said:


> All I heard was, "I don't want to ride with you because I will get cold". And I never used the word "pro".


Someone that brags they ride with embro year round in Colorado in areas that aren't Denver most certainly uses the word "pro." It's a scientific fact - so don't even bother disputting it.

I'm just joshing on you, man, but embro still sucks.


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## akrafty1 (Apr 10, 2006)

Me thinks your doing it wrong...


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## thighmaster (Feb 2, 2006)

Nothing like the smell of embro in the morning. Doesn't matter if it works, heck half the stuff doesn't work, but it's part of the deal. It brings me back to Europe and makes me smile, unless you shower right away. I do love the intense warm sensation when done, kind of like bengay as a kid, I don't know if it worked but my leg aches went away.


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## bikenerd (Jan 22, 2004)

ronderman said:


> I quote George Carlin "I don’t have pet peeves — I have major psychotic ****ing hatreds!" :thumbsup:


Smell some embro, it'll make you happier!


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## Doctor Who (Feb 22, 2005)

I'd rather protect my knees with something that actually keeps the muscle, tendons and cartilage warm, so I use knee or legwarmers. Embroing up is definitely a pro move, but let's not kid ourselves that it actually does anything to protect the internals of our legs.


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## northoceanbeach (Sep 29, 2007)

pretender said:


> P.S. Weird how it felt hot before the race, hot after race, but had no effect during the race. That's some magic stuff.


It's gotto be that you were so amped during you just didn't feel it


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## Rashadabd (Sep 17, 2011)

I have nothing to add (other than I use leg and knee warmers when riding road and I'm really not a fan of embro at all), but what I really want to say is this thread had me cracking up. bikenerd and Ronderman, your stuff was quality, absolute quality.... (still chuckling).


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## atpjunkie (Mar 23, 2002)

I have used a light medium heat embro on my lower back while en route to the race. It helps keep the core warm and seems to keep my back more loose during the race. I have used waterproofing embro with medium heat on my legs. It was nice, Yes, rubbing alcohol to remove


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## Kram (Jan 28, 2004)

Kram official embro-removing liquid; 1/2 rubbing alchohol and 1/2 witch hazel. Cheap and gets it off easily.


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## tednugent (Apr 26, 2010)

Maybe I should go to the medicine cabinet and to rub some extra strength Tiger Balm on my legs... for my next race (and hopefully tubeless.... instead of pinch flatting)


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## Kram (Jan 28, 2004)

I've used Tiger balm in the past. Works pretty well...


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## ms6073 (Jul 7, 2005)

adam_mac84 said:


> Hot when i end my warmup, no effect during race, burn the entire way home, and the rest of the night lol


Could be worse, could have put it on before your bibs/skinsuit and had it migrate from the knees to the junk - thats not a good time and something most typically only do once!


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## Sheepo (Nov 8, 2011)

That stuff makes me really itchy. I think im allergic. Used it once, and never again.


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## ms6073 (Jul 7, 2005)

I think itching is dependent on the formulation and how much of the 'warming' ingredients are used. I like Qoleum but others I have tried turned the skin a pronounced shade of brownish yellow and itched like crazy.


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