# Advice needed- girlfriend and I just cannot ride together in a civil fashion...



## tailgunn

I have been cycling off and on for over 20 years. My GF had always wanted to try it so I helped her get into it, but when we ride together she turns into a 12 year old and pouts because 'I will never be as fast as you.' Direct quote. I think she has made really good progress, despite the fact that she simply doesn't ride enough. No she will never be as fast as me and I don't expect her to be.
We finished last night's ride about 150 yards apart because she reverted to junior high again, at least until I came back for her because we were losing daylight and she doesn't have any lights. Which of course pissed her off- 'I don't need a chaperone.' Well, yes you do because you have no lights and even though I would like to strangle you right now, you need to be safe.
She admitted that she thinks I purposely try to stay ahead of her, apparently for my own ego I guess, but I almost never look at my computer for anything. I generally have no clue how fast I am going, and she wants to ride behind me! She wants me to lead, so I stay far enough ahead that she has room for variations in her speed. Sometimes I ride beside her. I always tell her that she should tell me to go faster or slower, whichever she needs. Sometimes she does.
The ego problem lies with her, not me. She hates to not be good at something, and even worse, she hates to look like she doesn't know what she is doing. This woman has a law degree and another master's degree, so she is not an underachiever. I have zero expectations of her, except that she puts effort into it, and does her best...but she is so busy saying I can't, I can't... She admittedly has no patience for anything or anyone. I have tons of patience and it is wearing thin. I have given up trying to help her. :mad2:
At the top of a pretty good hill she asked me how I climb so fast...so I explained to her what I do; how I use my legs, alternate between pulling and pushing on the pedals, blah blah... She said I do all that. So then I am trying to explain gear management to her, for the millionth time. We are both pedaling at the same speed but my cadence is higher and I can she see is putting too much effort into the pedaling. She is about 3 gears higher than me so I say, drop down a gear or two and spin with less effort. She does that- 'but now this pedaling makes me tired.' She won't get the concept of spinning....
I told her that I couldn't really teach her anything else, maybe one of our local shop buddies can ride with her and teach her something. She can sometimes be the kind of person that looks for reasons to be pissed off...and I've just about had it.
Apologize for the length, but any thoughts? Constructive thoughts, that is...


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## chudak

If you have a hobby that you both enjoy and do it together, that's one thing. But when one partner tries to pick up a hobby that the other partner engages in (and typically has for some period of time)...it almost never works and typically ends up exactly in the manner you are experiencing. This plays out the same way whether the hobby is golf, tennis, cycling, hiking.

I figure, interests you share are things you can do together. Interests that you don't have in common aren't opportunities to pick up a new hobby, they are an opportunity for some alone time in the relationship.

One thing you can try but is not at all guaranteed to work is to hamper yourself with a disadvantage to "level the field". If she's riding a road bike, ride a MBT with knobby tires or a single speed cruiser. That way you'll have to work a lot harder to go faster than her.


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## love4himies

I hate to say this, but she sounds a bit like me. In my head I know I will never be as strong as my hubby, but that doesn't stop the feeling of inadequacy and frustration with myself when he can climb up the hills like it's nothing and I'm huffing and puffing. 

The best thing you can do is to just go slow and allow her to draft off of you. Don't offer advice while she's struggling, she may be too frustrated to take it in. Hubby has told me a hundred times over the last 30 years to spin, but it took until I joined the RBR for it to sink in. 

Do both of you have good bike computers or GPS's? If so, you can set a pace that is good for her so she's not working too hard. Since I've gotten my Garmin with cadence, I can now see (because I had to *see it for myself* that I wasn't spinning at 80 as i imagined I was) what cadence is. 

Getting her in a group ride with other ladies in her category would be helpful. She may be more apt to take advice from others than you.


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## tlg

I can sympathize with you on some of this. I've gotten the " I will never be as fast as you" line. When my GF decided she wanted to start riding, I made sure she understood that it was her decision. I didn't request or expect her to be a cyclist. But if she wanted to, I'd be glad to teach and support her. Anytime she would express her frustrations, I'd be sure to remind her this was her choice and I have no expectations of her.

My GF is pretty competitive. She was a former runner so she gets endurance based activities. She's a yoga instructor by profession, so much of her day is dedicated to pretty intense physical activity. When she mentions not being "fast enough" I have to remind her that in order to get faster she has to ride more often and at a harder level. In which she replies, "I can't because I'm too busy with, or tired from, yoga." Her competitiveness makes her want to perform at a high level in both. So I tell her she has to prioritize which is more important, which is her yoga practice. It also doesn't help the she weighs 90lbs soaking wet, so she doesn't have the ability to put out the power I can. 

What's helped with us is getting her doing some group rides with others at her level. She's learned from others the same things I would tell her so that's helped reinforce my instruction. She's accepted the level at which she rides at now. But she's always trying to ride faster (which is a good thing). She knows we won't be riding at the same level and is ok with that (even if she wishes it wasn't so).


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## Mike T.

Have you considered getting a tandem? Or at least trying one before you buy? Surely that is a great leveller of abilities. On a solo bike the chances of her being able to match you are slim (lots of women have whupped my arse over the years) so why would she want to continually subject herself to this torture?

Maybe your wife is just too high maintenance where cycling is concerned (mine would be for sure) so why not cut her loose and insist that she ride with a group (preferably women) of her speed? This has got to be no fun for you either so why do you keep doing it?


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## tailgunn

Thank you. I get what you are all saying... I no longer have any other bikes; gave them all up because she bought me a Tarmac that I didn't really want anyway, and she doesn't want a bunch of bikes sitting around. My last road bike was an old steel frame I built up with newer stuff and I could hang with people on their fancy CF bikes even though I had to work harder. She has $4K invested in a Specialized Alias and she doesn't even ride it enough to justify the darn thing.
But I would wager everything I own on the following: Say I borrow the cruddy old Fuji mtb I gave to my son and ride with her on that, she will be pissed off because I am mocking her!

I ask her what she would like me to do differrently, what I can do to help her. The answer: She doesn't know. If you don't know, how am I supposed to figure it out? She won't ride in front, she gets pissed if I ride behind her because she _knows_ that she is slowing me down. Ok, fine. I don't mind going whatever speed you want...but like one of you said- if you want to get faster and/or better, you have to ride with someone that makes you push a little bit. 

This is what happened on the last Tuesday night bike shop ride: She won't ride with the C group because they are too slow and she has not tolerance for them. So we rode together in B. It always starts single file up a hill in traffic and some people were passing us; one of the shop lackeys, who was trying to help, got in front of her and said hug my wheel but then he went too fast for her (admittedly not helpful). That pissed her off. So get to a point about 1.5 miles into it and she is pissed, says to me you finish the ride I am going home. I say what? what do you mean? you are doing fine. No, I held everyone up on the hill and I am leaving (She cannot tolerate being last, even though she wasn't). B group are jerks and I don't like that. I said that was the hardest part of this ride, just finish it. Nope; she turned and went home. Then I had to listen to her ***** about that guy and his rudeness for a week. 

She has a really good computer, cadence and everything. She has top-notch everythign... I am just not sure she really wants to be a cyclist. She said before we started last night that her last ride by herself cadence was 70 and asked if that was good. I said hey that is an improvement, it's better. You want to shoot for being 80+ at some point. I don't really need a computer; don't care that much. I just need time of day, speed and miles. Sometimes I don't even look at it. I tell her all the time, you pick the route, you set the pace. My computer wasn't even working last night. I try to give her options, let her have control... 
Maybe it's just not our thing to do together, as chudak said. But between our kids, work and life, we don't get that much together time. I am afraid it's becoming an allegory for our relationship.


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## tlg

tailgunn said:


> Maybe it's just not our thing to do together, as chudak said. But between our kids, work and life, we don't get that much together time. I am afraid it's becoming an allegory for our relationship.


So who's idea was it to share this hobby?


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## tailgunn

It was her idea. When she found out that I am a cyclist, she said she had always wanted to try it and I offered to help.

For someone else a tandem might be a great idea. I have shown her tandems before and her reaction isn't good. She has a chip on her shoulder...has the mentality that everyone is looking at her. Besides, when she tells me to piss off and just go, I can't if we're stuck nose to butt! 

Mike T, this is my girlfriend and I am thinking she is just too high maintenance period! lol...I am just at a loss here.


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## Mike T.

With all due respect, I think she has issues that go beyond cycling and cycling is so frustrating for her that this is where they boil to the surface. I think you need to do some serious thinking and soul-searching.


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## tlg

tailgunn said:


> It was her idea. When she found out that I am a cyclist, she said she had always wanted to try it and I offered to help.


Then put the onus on her to define what she wants out of riding together. Let her make the "rules" on what speed you ride, where you ride, etc. You'll ride with her so long as she follows the rules. Should be easy for someone with a law degree. 



> Mike T, this is my girlfriend and I am thinking she is just too high maintenance period! lol...I am just at a loss here.


Is this just a cycling related issue or an everything issue?


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## chudak

Mike T. said:


> With all due respect, *I think she has issues that go beyond cycling* and cycling is so frustrating for her that this is where they boil to the surface. I think you need to do some serious thinking and soul-searching.


Yeah, she sounds pretty...volatile.


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## nsfbr

It would seem to me that the obvious answer is to not bike together. 

You could bike at the same time, but not together. 

You could bike while she does something else.

Or, you could keep smashing your thumb with the hammer. 

I'd opt for a or b, rather than chewing up thumbs on c.


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## CliffordK

If you are out for a ride together, then I'd encourage riding together, with the possible exception of hills, but regroup at the bottom of the hill. 

The stronger rider can ride side-by-side when traffic is appropriate, then pull ahead or behind when a car comes. 

Speed should be a taboo issue for discussions. I wonder if it is not just the GF, but also how you interact with her. However, it sounds like she has little patience for people who are not exactly like herself. 

I think the problem is that your GF apparently doesn't want to ride with you, nor does she want to ride apart. It sounds like some bad relationship signs. 

The tandem idea sounds like a worthwhile option to try... assuming you like your GF enough to get that close. 

Most tandems have the pedals attached synchronously. Both people have to pedal, and at the same rate. It could be good training for pedal cadence, but it could be an issue if both of you have very different pedalling styles. I'm seeing notes on the web about a few asynchronous tandems. That certainly would be worth exploring. Perhaps there would be a way to try both styles.

Getting bikes to level the playing field sounds like a good idea to me. Riding the MTB isn't mocking, it is simply levelling the playing field, and will give you a workout. Many games, chess, golf, whatever, have a way of giving a player a handicap. Perhaps find an MTB that will actually put you behind her a bit, although she may not have the patience to wait for you.

As far as spinning, I've never been a spinner... I've tried it some, but it just knocks me out. The notes I'm seeing indicate that one has to work at it... perhaps a month or so trying. I don't know. I can certainly go the distance, 100+ miles without spinning. Anyway, she knows your opinion on spinning. Don't push it.

Not all rides have to be together. You can ride solo, or with your favorite group sometimes without her.


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## tailgunn

Yes, the thumb-smashing is getting old... and yes, it spills over into more than just cycling... she doesn't want to make the rules, although I try to let her set them. I honestly feel that sometimes she sets me up for failure. Maybe I will tell her that she needs to come up with some parameters for this or we just can't ride together anymore.

She spent $700 for wheels on Sunday simply because they were 40% off... so they stuck her old wheels on my bike, which saved me a pound and they are stiffer. I never really thought it was that big of a difference, but I could feel it last night...so she was mad that she gave me the wheels because now I am even faster! 

So where do i send money to pay for this counseling session? :thumbsup:


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## tailgunn

Clifford, I do those things you suggested. Last night we climbed a pretty steep hill and we regrouped at the top. I even told her I thought she had good pace, and did good. If it's not a single-file road, I ride next to her, then I move in front or behind when there is traffic... I never mention her speed. I always tell her that our pace is fine for me. You may not think riding an mtb would be mocking her, but she would. She asks me questions, wants help, but then gets pissy and tells me she can't do that... ok then, you can't. I got nothing else for you then. I coach hockey, not cycling. My advice is limited.


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## tlg

tailgunn said:


> Maybe I will tell her that she needs to come up with some parameters for this or we just can't ride together anymore.


Maybe 
Why isn't that an "Absolutely, I won't ride with her otherwise".



> So where do i send money to pay for this counseling session?


Send me some money and I'll send you a hammer... so you can continue smashing your thumb.


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## love4himies

That's too bad about riding the mtn bike while she rides her road bike. I made my hubby do that when I first got my road bike, gave him quite a workout. And if we shoot pool, he's not allowed to make any straight shots. If hubby wants me to golf with him, he's not allowed to offer advice on the course. . Like tig suggested. Let her make the rules and don't offer any help unless she asks for it. She's probably more frustrated with herself.


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## Lindy B.

CliffordK said:


> The tandem idea sounds like a worthwhile option to try... assuming you like your GF enough to get that close.


When azpeterb and I bought our tandem, we heard from several different people that what ever direction your relationship is headed, a tandem will get you there faster. 

We love our tandem, and enjoy each other. It's been a good thing for us. 

I decided to try cycling just over a year ago...the boss has been cycling for 30 years or so and I will never be as strong or fast as he is. Big deal? I love riding and am getting stronger every day. He encourages me, gives advice and is teaching me how to do maintenance on my bike. He supported me buying a CAAD 10 Di2 after only a few months of me riding. I am very lucky to be married to him!! We ride together occasionally, have a great time. He adjusts his pace for me. Sometimes I'll send him on ahead if he wants to try and get some real speed on the downhill. Sometimes he rides ahead and takes my picture on my way up a big hill. 

I'm sorry you're having so many problems. Seems to me it's your GF's problem, though now it's yours. My only advice is for her....grow up!


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## tailgunn

Thanks, I have my own hammer! We are riding separately more and more now, just because I don't like riding with her... and I'm not willing to totally give up my own fitness or passion for it. My son has a hybrid at our house, maybe I could try that... platform pedals...

I like the quote about the tandem, LindyB. I think cycling in general may be doing the same thing.


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## CliffordK

Lindy B. said:


> what ever direction your relationship is headed, a tandem will get you there faster.


:thumbsup:


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## Fireform

Reading this makes me very grateful that my wife transitioned into the sport successfully and with a relative minimum of drama. It first she would give me hell if I didn't stay with her, but as her skills and confidence have developed along with her circle of riding companions that has become much less of an issue. On days when I race she rides with her own groups. Sharing the sport and the riding companions gives us a lot more in common than we had before. 

My only advice is to counsel patience and recognize that most of this behavior is probably coming from fear, of what you or other people think, of vulnerability, of failure. Getting her introduced to other women riders so her whole experience of the activity isn't funneled through you might help.


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## tailgunn

She doesn't really know any other women that ride, neither do I. If she would ride more often, maybe she would meet some... and she'd get better. I am not disagreeing with anything you all are saying. She just puts a lot of obstacles in her own way. I will try some of the suggestions.


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## CliffordK

tailgunn said:


> She spent $700 for wheels on Sunday simply because they were 40% off... so they stuck her old wheels on my bike, which saved me a pound and they are stiffer. I never really thought it was that big of a difference, but I could feel it last night...so she was mad that she gave me the wheels because now I am even faster!


It sounds like she is trying.
Do you race? 

Riding shouldn't be about a competition. Just go out and enjoy a Sunday ride. Smell some roses, watch the birds. Have fun.

$700 wheels at 40% off... that puts them at about $1100 wheels... Hmmm... 

One thing this forum, and life in general has taught me is that you don't need to go out and spend thousands of dollars just to have fun. A carbon wheel set might be great for racing, but I don't think I'd use it for touring. A professional racer might be interested in shaving a few grams here and there so they can shave a minute off of a 3 hour race. But, you certainly don't need that to get exercise, or to enjoy a ride. Just relax a bit for touring. 

I went out for a "hill climb" a week ago. Problem was that the base of the mountain was 50 miles from my house. I got to the mountain, and about 12 miles up the mountain by the time I deemed that it was too late to keep going, and I had to turn back for the 60 mile ride back home. 

I didn't make it to the top. But, it was a good ride. I enjoyed it. You know, I'm just fine with that. Next time I'll start an hour or two earlier, and make it to the top. Or, perhaps bring a sleeping bag so I can go over the top and find a place to camp on the other side.

I was riding alone, but I suppose I'm writing this because life isn't just about always getting to the top of the mountain. Sometimes it is more about the voyage getting there.


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## SauronHimself

You should always be wary of getting attached to someone who doesn't know how to set realistic expectations. It'd be cool if my girlfriend rode with me, but we both know that wouldn't be fun when put in practice given the speed difference. Therefore, I keep to my hobbies of cycling and video gaming, and she keeps to her hobbies of crocheting and baking (at which she is a master ).


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## BLUE BOY

Don't marry her, these kind of problems / issues only get worse, not better......just sayin'.


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## marmac

my instant reaction was time for new girl friend.... sometimes sports bring out the
real person.. maybe there are other solutions, but just sayin'


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## Alfonsina

I will say it again, this is why my DH cannot have a road bike. Anyway, sounds to me like she really doesn't like riding. I ride with blokes who are great riders and they don't complain or coach, they know I will ride as hard as I can. I also ride with women who are great riders and women who are not, but we all have fun.


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## HunkerDown

I always thought you needed to sail to Hawaii on a small boat to learn all you needed to know about your girlfriend. Guess I've just discovered that there's an alternative...

Best of luck to you,

HD


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## wgscott

I bought a tandem and my wife and I tried to ride together on it and she shrieked at me the whole time saying that we would fall and I was going to kill her.


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## Bill2

My workaround with my wife is she rides her hybrid on the bike path and I walk the dogs (at fast pace). She goes maybe half a kilometer and turns around to ride back to us, sometimes several times between stops. When she rides back to us and wants to stop and get some water, we hang out until she wants to ride away again. This works out for everyone- the dogs and I get to walk at a faster pace than when she walks along with us, and she gets to ride her bike at her own pace.


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## CliffordK

I think it is good to share hobbies, but you should also be realistic. 

Somehow you've made bicycling into a ultra-competitive sport, rather than just going out and having fun. I will say that I always hated riding with my older brother because no matter how hard I pedalled, he would always say I was going too slow, and offer to push me.

Anyway, on the weekends, you need to relax. 

Next weekend, try a fun/leisure ride. Just the two of you. Leave all the bike computers home. You don't need to know how fast you're going, just that the pedals are turning. Your GF sets the pace, and you need to stay with about 30 feet of her at all times (front, back, side), except perhaps on steep descents, or other unsafe conditions. No need to draft, unless one of you is exhausted at the end of the ride.

Find a scenic 20x20 ride, or whatever is appropriate, and go watch the trees, birds, flowers, views. Stop at all the "Viewpoints". Even take a few pictures if you want.

In Yogi Bear Fashion, pack a pic-a-nic basket. Even a bottle of wine if you wish. At the halfway point, sit down for at least a half hour to an hour picnic lunch. Fishing Poles?

You can talk about the birds, the bees, the trees, and the flowers, or whatever you wish.

Forbidden Taboo Subjects will be:

Speed 
Fast/Slow 
Muscle Strength/Weakness 
Spinning, Cadence, Gearing 
drafting 
Bike Racing 
Time, other than what it takes to get home before dark. 
Perhaps exclude work. 

If your bike is incapable of carrying the necessary gear, then put a rack on a hybrid/cross/MTB, and take it... not as mocking, but because you need it to carry the cargo.

I don't care if you need to go out on a Century warm up or cool down ride, but the ride you'll be on will bet with you and the GF.

You can try renting a tandem, but I'd try to get it to work first on individual bikes.


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## Mr645

Get a tandem, she'll never fall behind again


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## Sundog

You nearly hit the nail on the head in your first post, IMO. The answer is to get her a coach who is not you (and is not that LBS lackey that tried to help pull her up the hill on the shop ride). The coach will tell her the same things that you are telling her. She will listen to the coach and will progress. I have seen it a thousand times in tennis. Wives (and girlfriends) seem to love coaches. 

You will then only be responsible for resisting the urge to point out that you told her the same thing her coach told her when she gets excited about all the progress she is making under his tutelage. 

Be prepared for a bunch of sentences that start out "Scott (or whatever his name ends up being) says ......." Be a duck and let it roll off your back and enjoy your rides at the more reasonable pace. 

I am sure there is some sort of psychological phenomena at play here - but that's unimportant for the purposes of going faster. 

Good luck.


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## Sundog

And stay away from the coaching sessions. Very important.


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## CliffordK

Independent coaching may help some, but I still believe that you are doomed to fail if you set biking up as a competitive sport between the two of you, where you always win, and she will always fail.

It is not how fast you get to the finish line, but the path you take to get there, and how many roses you smell on the way.


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## love4himies

CliffordK said:


> Independent coaching may help some, but I still believe that you are doomed to fail if you set biking up as a competitive sport between the two of you, where you always win, and she will always fail.
> 
> It is not how fast you get to the finish line, but the path you take to get there, and how many roses you smell on the way.


Agree, but is that what the OP is trying to do, or is that how his partner is making it out to be?


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## Camilo

Boy, I don't know about what motivates people when they ride. I can't think of any reason that people who decide to ride together don't simply _ride together_ and understand that the faster rider _wants_ to ride slower and the slower rider should just enjoy the ride at his/her own pace.

My wife and I, when we go for a ride together, we just ride together. She wants to ride with me, I want to ride with her. Simple concept. Sometimes we talk, sometimes we don't. Side by side whenever possible. I generally lead downhill (I go a lot faster and just soft pedal at the bottom until she catches up.) She generally leads uphill - slowest sets the pace, no? Is that not a given?

Why ride together if you're not just riding for fun and enjoying each others' company.

We also have a tandem which really was fun and we did it quite a bit until I bought her a road bike for her 57th birthday to replace her hybrid. Now she just prefers riding the road bike, but the purpose of my riding with her is to ride with her - she gets it, I get it.


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## CliffordK

love4himies said:


> Agree, but is that what the OP is trying to do, or is that how his partner is making it out to be?


I don't know. Somehow the situation devolved from going out for a nice Sunday ride to the GF feeling inadequate because she can't keep up, or go the distance.

Back Seat Driving doesn't seem to help the situation either, even if she asks for suggestions (rhetorically?)

It may be a personality trait of hers, as she apparently has a lack of patience for group rides with the "C" group, but can't keep up with the "B" group.

The OP lists "recreational" on his profile. So, I believe that for them to enjoy riding together, all aspects of competition need to be removed from the riding, and they need to find a pace and distance that is comfortable to all.

No doubt, the rides aren't fun for either of them now.


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## BLUE BOY

Isn't there a saying that "a couple can have a fun bike ride, if one of them is dead"?
Oh, wait; I think I got that mixed up with the saying "three people can keep a secret, if two of them are dead". Darn it, sometimes I get these kind of things mixed up!


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## obed

it sounds like you are asking for permission to move on...you don't need it.


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## il sogno

She kinda sounds like me when I first started riding. 'Cept I wasn't THIS bad. 

If you want to be the one to deal with this, look upon it as an exercise in patience and support. I'm figuring that what she wants is a supportive Daddy figure. If you don't want to deal with this, I think that the suggestions that some of other posters made in regards to her getting a coach (and you staying out of it) is a great idea. 

Quick question: does she have a nice light bike, or is the thing a boat anchor? In our house, we have one rule when it comes to buying bikes. My husband can get whatever he wants as long as my bike is the lightest bike in the house. 

Good luck to you.


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## love4himies

il sogno said:


> In our house, we have one rule when it comes to buying bikes. My husband can get whatever he wants as long as my bike is the lightest bike in the house.


I'm liking that rule!


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## CliffordK

il sogno said:


> Quick question: does she have a nice light bike, or is the thing a boat anchor? In our house, we have one rule when it comes to buying bikes. My husband can get whatever he wants as long as my bike is the lightest bike in the house.


I think the OP answered that question. The GF has a $4000 Specialized Alias which she recently upgraded with a set of $700 wheels. She apparently gave the hand-me-down wheels to the OP, followed by complaining that they made him faster.

I know that my mother had that "boat anchor" problem with most of the women's bikes from the 70's being of very poor quality until she found a very nice Motobecane classic women's bike which unfortunately has spent far too much time hanging in the garage. But, it did help her have a much more equal bicycling experience on family rides.

I do believe there is a cynical attitude problem on both sides... When the OP discusses the GF's bike. 



tailgunn said:


> She has $4K invested in a Specialized Alias and she doesn't even ride it enough to justify the darn thing.
> 
> But I would wager everything I own on the following: Say I borrow the cruddy old Fuji mtb I gave to my son and ride with her on that, she will be pissed off because I am mocking her!


He states it is a nice bike and all, but seems to put her down in the same sentence.


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## CyclChyk

My suggestion would be to have her do a group ride with other cyclists (women specifically) to see if she honestly likes to ride, and to get a female perspective, rather than just yours. I don't think a coach will help with someone of her personality. She seems stubborn in her own opinions, while trying to appear open minded (but isn't.)

Not to mention she seems clingy. When my DH gets ahead of me, sure On bad days I may start to think that he doesn't want to ride with me. But then I figure, F him.... This ride is for ME.... And the zen begins to spill in and when the ride is over, we actually feel closer.

I'll leave the B word out cuz even tho she sounds like one, we have not heard her side...


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## il sogno

CyclChyk said:


> My suggestion would be to have her do a group ride with other cyclists (women specifically) to see if she honestly likes to ride, and to get a female perspective, rather than just yours. I don't think a coach will help with someone of her personality. She seems stubborn in her own opinions, while trying to appear open minded (but isn't.)
> 
> Not to mention she seems clingy. When my DH gets ahead of me, sure On bad days I may start to think that he doesn't want to ride with me. But then I figure, F him.... This ride is for ME.... And the zen begins to spill in and when the ride is over, we actually feel closer.
> 
> I'll leave the B word out cuz even tho she sounds like one, we have not heard her side...


I agree, she's sounds kinda clingy. 

My husband usually rides away from me on climbs then waits for me at a convenient spot. It makes it all the more rewarding when I'm in shape and am able to beat him up the climb.


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## kmunny19

" She won't ride in front, she gets pissed if I ride behind her because she knows that she is slowing me down. Ok, fine. I don't mind going whatever speed you want...but like one of you said- if you want to get faster and/or better, you have to ride with someone that makes you push a little bit. "

My line always was from the very beginning, and gets repeated...This is not my ride upon which to train, nor is the success of this ride measured by speed or effort level for me. I am here as your domestique, your directeur, your companion, whether in front, alongside, or behind. Put me where you want me, ask or don't ask what you want, and ride YOUR ride, with me along. I will take my rides in my time and measure the success of them in a different way.

If we are both actually riding hard on the same ride, it is a fairly short distance circuit for a specified time, and we each lap at our own training pace. She enjoys being the rabbit I suffer to catch and it pushes us both. She knows that if she wants to compete with me, its small victories like catching me out with a surprise sprint, or digging deep to keep me from passing her before a certain intersection or point and telling me afterward that all she wanted was to beat me to that point before I continued on. 

To us, the key is not taking the same kind of ride together unless its pure leisure. If it is point to point, not circuits, we know that I am trying to get out of the ride something greatly different than if I was training alone. I thoroughly enjoy helping her suffer through her training rides, and make it very clear that my success and enjoyment comes from her enjoyment of that ride.


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## myhui

kmunny19 said:


> " She won't ride in front, she gets pissed if I ride behind her because she knows that she is slowing me down. Ok, fine. I don't mind going whatever speed you want...but like one of you said- if you want to get faster and/or better, you have to ride with someone that makes you push a little bit. "


First, raise a daughter as a single parent, where she's The Apple In Your Eyes, and you ride a lot with her, happily.

Then go get a girlfriend after your daughter has grown up and left home.


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## aureliajulia

You both need to get over yourselves and remember it's an optional activity you do for enjoyment. Period.

1. She will never be as fast as you. True. She needs to accept this and realize it's not a bad thing. This realization could take awhile, though, and probably won't happen until she is more comfortable cycling. It may be especially difficult for her to come to the blatantly obvious realization if she is competitive, or maybe if she hasn't taken part in male-dominated activities where strength, lung capacity, and speed make a difference. She may eventually develop better handling skills and balance. Women, on average, have better dexterity. She likely has the ability to do that if she tries and chooses. But she doesn't have to.

You need to remember that she is a beginner, and hasn't learned to ride her ride. She's too busy being worried about failing to ride yours. Just be nice and ask her to ride her ride, and not yours (don't tell her. ASK). Don't be a jerk about it. Everyone has to do this. Something like: hey hone, do me a favor...please? Just... ride your ride. Don't worry about how fast other people go. It doesn't matter. Okay?...

2. You. Need to quit expecting her to accept that she is a beginner and you are not, and realize she feels anxious. There is no 'she is not riding enough,' or 'she has reverted to junior high.' The reality is she is worried about looking weak and disappointing you. Get over it. This is how beginners are when faced with doing activities alongside people who are more experienced.

Oh. And she doesn't want you to figure anything out, or fix anything. She wants you to listen and sympathize. Period. 

Me. I ride with really fast guys all the time. I also like to hang out on Team Estrogen women's cycling forums. When the guys get out of hand, I just compliment them by referring to them as Team Testosterone. 

I think it makes them happy.


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## tclaremont

You both need to read "Emotional Intelligence 2.0"

And no, I have nothing to do with the book. I read it. It works.


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## PBL450

tailgunn, you have a hyper competitive, type A, over achiever GF. JD and Master of X... That sh*t doesn't turn on and off. It just IS. She's like this in more than cycling, you are just riding together so it's smacking you in the face. She's not clingy, she's hard as nails and freaking hates being second to anyone in anything. It's not you, it's just made worse because it's you. Wouldn't matter if it was hopscotch. I could likely write a profile of her father, maybe military, or mother... Either way, she has lived with nothing being good enough her whole life. So she kills things, does nothing half assed and is looking at expensive equiptment to close the competitve gap because she is looking to close the competitive gap by any means necessary. You are cannon fodder to this woman. If you plan on staying BF/GF (and I'm not so sure that has long term potential) then by all means separate for riding. If she wants to ride she rides in groups on her own. You ride and she rides. Maybe at some point you can ride (occasionally) together, like (as suggested) for a picnic or something, unless she gets fast enough... And watch out, she might. Listen bro, lots of people ride horses and love it, but not a lot of people like riding thoroughbreds. It's tough. They are high strung and dangerous. I know. 

She is too smart and competitive to patronize or have ride at some fake pace of yours. Don't even try. Find some things to do that she does. Learn from HER. Meet her family and spend time with them, you will learn more in a weekend than you could ever expect. 

If you ride together and you want to go, then damn it, go. Kill it. She is a predator, she gets it. She sounds completely awesome to me.


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## willstylez

I agree with CliffordK's viewpoint. There is no need to do group rides (where others are wanting to ride "competitively") or bring up the subject of speed / cadence. If the picnic idea is a pain to coordinate, just pick a bar/restaurant a few towns away and make that your goal. Cycling together and then sharing some food/beers/margaritas together is FUN...and will lighten the mood! Just don't over indulge, regarding consumption, or the ride back will be brutal


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## PJay

PBL450 said:


> tailgunn, you have a hyper competitive, type A, over achiever GF. JD and Master of X... That sh*t doesn't turn on and off. It just IS. She's like this in more than cycling, you are just riding together so it's smacking you in the face. She's not clingy, she's hard as nails and freaking hates being second to anyone in anything. It's not you, it's just made worse because it's you. Wouldn't matter if it was hopscotch. I could likely write a profile of her father, maybe military, or mother... Either way, she has lived with nothing being good enough her whole life. So she kills things, does nothing half assed and is looking at expensive equiptment to close the competitve gap because she is looking to close the competitive gap by any means necessary. You are cannon fodder to this woman. If you plan on staying BF/GF (and I'm not so sure that has long term potential) then by all means separate for riding. If she wants to ride she rides in groups on her own. You ride and she rides. Maybe at some point you can ride (occasionally) together, like (as suggested) for a picnic or something, unless she gets fast enough... And watch out, she might. Listen bro, lots of people ride horses and love it, but not a lot of people like riding thoroughbreds. It's tough. They are high strung and dangerous. I know.
> 
> She is too smart and competitive to patronize or have ride at some fake pace of yours. Don't even try. Find some things to do that she does. Learn from HER. Meet her family and spend time with them, you will learn more in a weekend than you could ever expect.
> 
> If you ride together and you want to go, then damn it, go. Kill it. She is a predator, she gets it. She sounds completely awesome to me.


--This is insightful, and worth considering. Some people are highly competent people, but feel very insecure about most everything in their lives. Usually, this comes from a parent or parents for whom things are never good enough, and every activity in life has to be for some purpose. You even see this in some seemingly selfless church volunteers: things have to be done right, and they may be intolerant of other people just doing OK because hey the world will keep on spinnin'.

If any of this is close to being true, here is the good news: she is comfortable with you. People with this mindset are often pretty judgmental - they hold themselves and others to some obvious set of standards, and the rest of us just ain't there no matter how hard we try. If she has stuck around this long, my guess is she is very smitten, or maybe you are her next self-improvement project.

Ahh, love.

Man, if only I could instruct my wife on how to operate a road bike, and get her riding with me. The first time we rode a 40-miler together - a pretty flat course I have to say - she would not swap out of one gear she "liked" like you like an old sweatshirt or teddy bear or barry manilow. Then, she gets upset with me for talking during the ride, and not just riding around. Oh, well. She will sight-see around the neighborhood. That's it.


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## tailgunn

Wow. I haven't read this since my last entry... quite a debate you all have had. To answer some of your queries:
1. I do not race, I ride for fitness and to challenge MYSELF. I usually finish group B rides in the top half and spend much of that time looking at other's leg muscles in awe. 
2. I don't care what pace she and I ride together, EVER. I am perfectly happy to ride with her at 5 mph or 25 mph. We don't generally do group rides together, and I have no expectations of her. If I want to kill it, I go alone.
3. I am a divorced father of 3, two of them being twin girls but they are 8 and so far capable of riding their cute little bikes around the 'hood. Actually, one refuses to ride hers but I am working on that very patiently. My son is just old enough to start riding, and I hope that all 3 of us can share riding for the rest of our lives.
4. I have tons of patience- just ask my children. 
5. I have repeatedly asked her what SHE wants me to do, how I can help HER, but she can't say....and when I ask her that, what I really mean is what can I do so that we can just ride and enjoy each other's company regardless of pace or anything else?
6. Being in corporate mgmt, I have read about and been to seminars on emotional intelligence, but sometimes it can be hard to objectively apply it to love.

It turns out that riding was a corollary or allegory for our entire relationship, which I ended a week ago Monday. Our personalities just didn't work and I am already happier, hopefully she will be too. Life is too short.

Thanks for the advice and the mild criticism, both were needed. Thanks for not blatantly flaming me either. I do know that if I ever ride with an SO again, discussions of relationship/personal matters is off limits while on the bike. That was disastrous, because then you have no ability to separate and cool off when you've got 20 more miles back to the car. :mad2:


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## nsfbr

My take on watching this from the sidelines is that you are probably a great dad and just made the right decision. Good luck with the kids!


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## tailgunn

Thank you! I am a good dad, and that might be the only thing at which I am good, but I can settle for that.


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## love4himies

I'm sorry to hear that it didn't work out with your girlfriend.

Being a good dad is probably the hardest and most rewarding job you'll have.


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## JSUlly

Did you get to keep the wheels? This was a great saga to read, I went through many of these struggles with my fiance. I finally told her, eventually you can't be "new" to biking, this is your bike and you ride it. We ride together more for base miles for me and for her to learn basic drafting stuffs. Now she does a ladies group ride and complains they are too slow. Next year she will be dropping me.


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## tailgunn

I had to give the wheels back...  Small price to pay. But my LBS guys are cool and they are trying to find me some new take-offs for a good deal.


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## il sogno

tailgunn said:


> Thank you! I am a good dad, and that might be the only thing at which I am good, but I can settle for that.


That's the important thing.


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