# Pillar spokes



## KarbonPol (Mar 27, 2006)

I want buy Sapim CX-Ray spokes for my new wheelset. I choised American Classic 350 road rims and Soul-Kozak hubs (52 g front, 168 g rear).
But I saw this page: http://www.xx-light-bikes.de/shop/p...s=search0_EQ_260%20mm_AND_{EOL}&categoryId=12
Pillar Ti spokes 10% lighter than CX-Ray? I know, CX-Ray is the best  , most stiffness, strongest and very durability.
Ti spokes will be very good, but I don't know nothing about Pillar spokes.
Please any opinion or links. Thanks.


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## rruff (Feb 28, 2006)

KarbonPol said:


> Ti spokes will be very good, but I don't know nothing about Pillar spokes.
> Please any opinion or links. Thanks.


Ti spokes in the past have *not* been very good... but maybe Pillar has figured out how to do it right. I'd go with CX-rays if you want the best proven spoke, but if you want something exotic the Pillar Ti spokes certainly have that going for them. 

Ligero is using them in builds, so PM him if he doesn't chime in...


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## alienator (Jun 11, 2004)

rruff said:


> Ti spokes in the past have *not* been very good... but maybe Pillar has figured out how to do it right. I'd go with CX-rays if you want the best proven spoke, but if you want something exotic the Pillar Ti spokes certainly have that going for them.
> 
> Ligero is using them in builds, so PM him if he doesn't chime in...


I asked Ligero about Pillar spokes when discussing another build on the phone last week. According to The Man, apparently the Ti in the Pillar spokes was a new Ti alloy from Reynolds that was everything they wanted but was a b1tch to weld. It seems, though, that this alloy works well for spokes, resolving the tension issues that Ti spokes of old had. Ligero's been using 'em on his bike every day, without issues. I'm intendin' to have a second set of wheels built up w/ Pillar spokes.

Troy claims that weight saved over CX-Rays is like 40-50g. I can't remember if that was per wheel or per set, and not completely sure for what spoke count that was.....I think it was 20/24.

I don't know if Ligero is going to chime in since he admitted to giving up wheel building in favor of knitting foul whether accoutrements for poodles and other cherished pets. He said he's hoping to become the chief knitter for the Westminster Dog Show. Alas, he made this decision before finishing my first set of wheels, so instead he's knitting me a set of shams for my throw pillows, as well as a short sleeved "vest" for each of my Jack Russell terriers.


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## KarbonPol (Mar 27, 2006)

Rruff - I don't wont exotic spokes, but I wont the best spokes. Wheelset with 24 front/28 rear will have weight under 1200 grams.
CX-Ray are very popular - it's must be very, very good choice.


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## rruff (Feb 28, 2006)

alienator said:


> Troy claims that weight saved over CX-Rays is like 40-50g. I can't remember if that was per wheel or per set, and not completely sure for what spoke count that was.....I think it was 20/24.


That would be correct for a wheelset... so it is a pretty good weight savings. The Pillar Ti bladed spoke has dimensions very similar to CX-rays except for 2.3mm Js vs 2.0mm... and Ti weighs about 60% of steel... so there you have it.

Still... unless Pillar has a buttload of research and fatigue test data showing how the spokes will perform long term in a bicycle wheel, I'd still consider them a bit risky... as in highly unlikely to be as long lasting as CX-rays. They are the lightest, though... and they come in cool colors...

Heck, you could stick 4 more of them in each wheel and still save some weight... and you'd probably want to since Ti is not as stiff as SS.

Troy... if you are out there... what tension do you use on the Ti spokes?


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## alienator (Jun 11, 2004)

rruff said:


> That would be correct for a wheelset... so it is a pretty good weight savings. The Pillar Ti bladed spoke has dimensions very similar to CX-rays except for 2.3mm Js vs 2.0mm... and Ti weighs about 60% of steel... so there you have it.
> 
> Still... unless Pillar has a buttload of research and fatigue test data showing how the spokes will perform long term in a bicycle wheel, I'd still consider them a bit risky... as in highly unlikely to be as long lasting as CX-rays. They are the lightest, though... and they come in cool colors...
> 
> ...


Shhhhhhh! You'll wake him up. I believe he's got the Pillars on a 20/24 wheelset, but I may have dismembered that uncorrectly. The impression he gave me was that the Pillar spokes could be used in every day wheels. As I said earlier, he's riding 'em every day.

To know for sure though, we'll have to wait for Kerry Irons to say it's ok for Troy to speak. We don't want Kerry Irons to get angry and roundhouse kick Troy back to the days of wooden rims and spokes.


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## Ligero (Oct 21, 2005)

Everyone will be happy to hear that Alienator's wheels will be in his hands this week.

The pillar spokes have a breaking strength of 350kgf and I am currently running them at around 115kgf. There are no true measurement numbers for the spokes yet because none of the tension meters have them listed in the conversion charts. According to Pillar the ti alloy that is used was developed by Reynolds to make lighter but stronger tubing out of but it turned out to be either to hard to weld or was unweldable. 

I am riding a pair everyday that is built with White Industries hubs, 30mm niobium rims and Pillar spokes front and rear. The front is a 20h and the rear is a 24h and the pair is under 1400 grams for the pair. I have the exact same pair of wheels but built with cx-rays and I cannot tell the difference between the two while riding. I get no brake rub or feel any extra flex with the ti spokes compared to the cx-rays. So far my impression of them has been that they are surprising for being the lightest spokes made.

I will post some photos of the wheels later after I get back from the finish of todays TDG stage at Brasstown bald.


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## alienator (Jun 11, 2004)

Ligero said:


> Everyone will be happy to hear that Alienator's wheels will be in his hands this week.
> 
> The pillar spokes have a breaking strength of 350kgf and I am currently running them at around 115kgf. There are no true measurement numbers for the spokes yet because none of the tension meters have them listed in the conversion charts. According to Pillar the ti alloy that is used was developed by Reynolds to make lighter but stronger tubing out of but it turned out to be either to hard to weld or was unweldable.
> 
> ...


Ahh, just as I read that, the birds outside my window started singing, the sun came out, and some damned Austrian nun is singing in the grass below....."...the hills are alive with the sound........" I'm gonna throw something at her.

Which Pillars are you using? Do either of Pillar's aero spoke require slotting the hub spoke holes?


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## rruff (Feb 28, 2006)

Ligero said:


> The pillar spokes have a breaking strength of 350kgf and I am currently running them at around 115kgf.


Wow. Looks like good strength and tension numbers. How does that breaking strength compare to CX-rays? 

If their fatigue characteristics are good, they should be fine spokes.

What "30mm Niobium" rims are you using?


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## Juanmoretime (Nov 24, 2001)

alienator said:


> I asked Ligero about Pillar spokes when discussing another build on the phone last week. According to The Man, apparently the Ti in the Pillar spokes was a new Ti alloy from Reynolds that was everything they wanted but was a b1tch to weld. It seems, though, that this alloy works well for spokes, resolving the tension issues that Ti spokes of old had. Ligero's been using 'em on his bike every day, without issues. I'm intendin' to have a second set of wheels built up w/ Pillar spokes.
> 
> Troy claims that weight saved over CX-Rays is like 40-50g. I can't remember if that was per wheel or per set, and not completely sure for what spoke count that was.....I think it was 20/24.
> 
> I don't know if Ligero is going to chime in since he admitted to giving up wheel building in favor of knitting foul whether accoutrements for poodles and other cherished pets. He said he's hoping to become the chief knitter for the Westminster Dog Show. Alas, he made this decision before finishing my first set of wheels, so instead he's knitting me a set of shams for my throw pillows, as well as a short sleeved "vest" for each of my Jack Russell terriers.


You are wrong. Troy was knitting me a set of wheel bags which I picked up when I stopped in his shop on Wednesday. They were so great that I commissioned him to make another set. He stopped what he was doing on the spot. He was boxing a set of wheels that had White Industries black H1 hubs with black Sapim spokes laced to Crostini 3.1 and 3.2 hubs. When I left yesterday he had progressed to being about 25% done for the first bag. I dusted the wheels for Troy as I left.


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## alienator (Jun 11, 2004)

Juanmoretime said:


> You are wrong. Troy was knitting me a set of wheel bags which I picked up when I stopped in his shop on Wednesday. They were so great that I commissioned him to make another set. He stopped what he was doing on the spot. He was boxing a set of wheels that had White Industries black H1 hubs with black Sapim spokes laced to Crostini 3.1 and 3.2 hubs. When I left yesterday he had progressed to being about 25% done for the first bag. I dusted the wheels for Troy as I left.


Don't EVEN kid me on this. He's knitting you a second set of wheelbags.....before I even get one turtle necked vest for my dogs? Jesus f*cking Katie Christ: it's only been getting up to the high 80's around here, lately, and my poor dogs are going to freeze.

Did you happen to notice an address on the shipping label for that box o' wheels?


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## Juanmoretime (Nov 24, 2001)

alienator said:


> Don't EVEN kid me on this. He's knitting you a second set of wheelbags.....before I even get one turtle necked vest for my dogs? Jesus f*cking Katie Christ: it's only been getting up to the high 80's around here, lately, and my poor dogs are going to freeze.
> 
> Did you happen to notice an address on the shipping label for that box o' wheels?


Tuscon or Scottsdale, Az. I know it was definitely going to Az.

PS I think he will be finshed knitting in about two weeks so he can tape the box shut and keep out that dust. At least the shipping label is on it.


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## alienator (Jun 11, 2004)

Hey, Moderaters: what's up with pictures and posts disappearing from threads? It's happened in this thread as well as others.


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## Alpinist (Jul 27, 2005)

When I last talked to Troy, he had the Ti spokes on light blue. I am hoping he will have some in silver late next week so he can start my build (Crostini 3.1's, Pillar silver spokes 24/28 and black Tune hubs). He thought they might weigh around 1220g.

Ti does not take black (hense the choice of silver spokes) but Troy said he is thinking of having other colors besides silver and blue.

Being out of pink yarn, I told him to hold off on a set of wheel bags for me. 

Alpinist


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