# 25c Really?



## Enoch562 (May 13, 2010)

THis was the second time I rode some 4000 S/ 25c tires. I've tried them on 2 different bikes. Once with a wide rim (SL23), and once with a slightly more narrow rim. I'm 163 lbs running 80 front 85 rear. I'm totaly blown away. It really takes all the chatter out of the rough roads and feels just great on the smooth stuff. I think I'm sold


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## Mike T. (Feb 3, 2004)

Enoch562 said:


> THis was the second time I rode some 4000 S/ 25c tires. I've tried them on 2 different bikes. Once with a wide rim (SL23), and once with a slightly more narrow rim. I'm 163 lbs running 80 front 85 rear. I'm totaly blown away. It really takes all the chatter out of the rough roads and feels just great on the smooth stuff. I think I'm sold


Congratulations. You've just found something that lots of us here have been preaching about for years - ten of them probably. We're not going back to 23mm tires.


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## upstateSC-rider (Aug 21, 2004)

Mike T. said:


> Congratulations. You've just found something that lots of us here have been preaching about for years - ten of them probably. *We're not going back to 23mm tires*.


Unless they're tubeless.


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## Roland44 (Mar 21, 2013)

Enoch562 said:


> THis was the second time I rode some 4000 S/ 25c tires. I've tried them on 2 different bikes. Once with a wide rim (SL23), and once with a slightly more narrow rim. I'm 163 lbs running 80 front 85 rear. I'm totaly blown away. It really takes all the chatter out of the rough roads and feels just great on the smooth stuff. I think I'm sold


Nice find! Congrats


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## Enoch562 (May 13, 2010)

You know, I've rode about 4 diffrent wide rims, and they DO make a difference, but when it boils down to overall ride quality, a 25c tire will definately make a bigger difference. The 2 together is really impressive.


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## AndyMc2006 (Oct 27, 2006)

*25's*



Enoch562 said:


> THis was the second time I rode some 4000 S/ 25c tires. I've tried them on 2 different bikes. Once with a wide rim (SL23), and once with a slightly more narrow rim. I'm 163 lbs running 80 front 85 rear. I'm totaly blown away. It really takes all the chatter out of the rough roads and feels just great on the smooth stuff. I think I'm sold


I have been running Michelin 25's for years, love them. I have a used pair of Pro 4's with about 800 mi on them on ebAy if someone wants to test run a pair. $60 for 2 tires


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## ScottsSupersix (Mar 25, 2012)

Based on my experience, I had been running 25c GP4000S front and rear, but I recently switched the front back to 23c, since my Zipp 404's are supposedly designed to be more aero with 23s, especially at higher speeds. Even so, I still prefer the 25c in the rear, to be a bit more comfortable and less prone to pinch flats.


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## willieboy (Nov 27, 2010)

Just ordered some 4000S in 25mm. I hope I like the change from the 23's as much as many have posted. I'm going to try them on my new Lynskey R230. At 155 pounds I figure around 95 PSI would e a good place to start. We will see


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## mann2 (Oct 16, 2012)

I run 'em staggered (23fr, 25rr) - because i need to be aero up front!* 

*real reason: I have stock of some 23mm 4000s and would need to wear them out before changing to 25c full time.


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## TiCoyote (Jun 28, 2005)

I switched to the 25 when I did a coast-2-coast. I wanted to take some strain off the bike and my body. I never switched back. So much smoother! I really do think they're faster. Think about it: a wheel with a larger diameter will roll over bumps more smoothly. Imagine a cart going up a flight of stairs. 

I also ride the GP4000S in 25c. Love them!


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## rdubbz (Sep 23, 2008)

loved the 25mm but they didn't fit my bmc so had to go back to 23mm.


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## Cyclin Dan (Sep 24, 2011)

I recently had a new set of wheels built around 23mm wide HED Belgium C2 rims, and mounted a set of 25mm GP4000S on them. Still playing around with tire pressure a little, but so far it feels really good.


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## looigi (Nov 24, 2010)

I'll just mention here that rims with wider bead spacing increase the installed width of a tire allowing it to be run at lower pressure. 23mm tires installed on 23mm wide HED C2 rims measure ~25mm wide. 25mm tires on the same rim are close to ~28mm wide. In each case, you can generally lower the pressure to be appropriate for the installed width rather than the nominal tire width.


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## PrillaO (May 14, 2013)

Help! If I have too much psi in my new 25 mm tires, will that make for a really hard climb. I felt like I had a gear taken from me. My speed dropped by 1/2-1 mile an hour going up hill.
I'm an older gal rider but have done this hard hill in Golden for many years. Is it my age, is it the 25 mm instead of the 23 mm, or possibly the psi being too much!


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## morgan1819 (Nov 22, 2005)

PrillaO said:


> Help! If I have too much psi in my new 25 mm tires, will that make for a really hard climb. I felt like I had a gear taken from me. My speed dropped by 1/2-1 mile an hour going up hill.
> I'm an older gal rider but have done this hard hill in Golden for many years. Is it my age, is it the 25 mm instead of the 23 mm, or possibly the psi being too much!


What model tires are involved in this scenario? (tell us the brand/model of the 23's and 25's)

Also, if your 23's were very worn, the new 25's are going to be a larger diameter, which may account for a gearing/speedometer discrepancy.

Also, if your old 23's were something racy like a Vittoria Corsa Evo, and your 25's are of a more durable variety ... you might not 'feel' as zippy.

Otherwise, there shouldn't be much difference in speed.


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## Kerry Irons (Feb 25, 2002)

PrillaO said:


> Help! If I have too much psi in my new 25 mm tires, will that make for a really hard climb. I felt like I had a gear taken from me. My speed dropped by 1/2-1 mile an hour going up hill.
> I'm an older gal rider but have done this hard hill in Golden for many years. Is it my age, is it the 25 mm instead of the 23 mm, or possibly the psi being too much!


There is no way that switching tire sizes caused that speed drop. If you used comparable tires there shouldn't have been any noticeable difference. Something else changed (and it could have been your own fitness or degree of fatigue). It was not the tires. More pressure in tires makes for a rougher ride, less traction, and faster tire wear. If the roads are rough it can slow you down a bit as well but again, not that much.


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## PrillaO (May 14, 2013)

morgan1819 said:


> What model tires are involved in this scenario? (tell us the brand/model of the 23's and 25's)
> 
> Also, if your 23's were very worn, the new 25's are going to be a larger diameter, which may account for a gearing/speedometer discrepancy.
> 
> ...


My 23s were very worn but they were the "racy" Vittoria Corsa Evo and my 25s are open corsa cx-III. I have a weak left leg so climbing is tough but I've always been able to do it---even with these new tires I can do it but my heartrate and grinding are something. I'm thinking maybe my computer is off. 
I did a "regular" ride that I have done 4 other times in the past month. I was .75 miles per hour slower and my time was 6 minutes slower over 33 miles. 
I'm going to try the climb one more time on Friday and make the psi 90. These tires feel like rocks and I'm hoping that is the issue.
But, if there's no difference, I'm going back to my 23s!

Again, thanks for your ideas.


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## PrillaO (May 14, 2013)

Kerry Irons said:


> There is no way that switching tire sizes caused that speed drop. If you used comparable tires there shouldn't have been any noticeable difference. Something else changed (and it could have been your own fitness or degree of fatigue). It was not the tires. More pressure in tires makes for a rougher ride, less traction, and faster tire wear. If the roads are rough it can slow you down a bit as well but again, not that much.


I have been back on my bike for a few weeks and Lookout is short and steep. I hope to gawd it's my conditioning! Here's what I don't get. A ride I have done 4 times in the past 3 weeks that has a slight incline I did on the 25s on Sunday for the first time and I felt good but I was 6 minutes slower over 33 miles and a .75 mile per hour slower. 
If it's not the tires, I get a little scared that my youthful "old" age might be catching up with me. I live in Colorado and am not ready to give up on climbing. There is too much joy in getting to the "top."


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## jeepsouth (Nov 28, 2011)

I switched from Shimano R500A wheels with Bontrager R2. 25c, to Reynolds Solitude Wheels with Michelin Pro 4 Service Course, 23c. I don't plan on ever going back to 25c tires, or Shimano wheels, for that matter, ever again. Lower rolling resistance, better speed, etc. with the 23c's.


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## farva (Jun 24, 2005)

Take this as an opportunity to remove all those performance measuring gizmos off your bike & just ride. It's quite liberating. Judge your performance by how you feel on the ride instead.


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## PrillaO (May 14, 2013)

jeepsouth said:


> I switched from Shimano R500A wheels with Bontrager R2. 25c, to Reynolds Solitude Wheels with Michelin Pro 4 Service Course, 23c. I don't plan on ever going back to 25c tires, or Shimano wheels, for that matter, ever again. Lower rolling resistance, better speed, etc. with the 23c's.


Good to hear that not everyone is in love with the 25mm!


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## PrillaO (May 14, 2013)

farva said:


> Take this as an opportunity to remove all those performance measuring gizmos off your bike & just ride. It's quite liberating. Judge your performance by how you feel on the ride instead.


I like the idea of just going by me!


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## ziscwg (Apr 19, 2010)

PrillaO said:


> My 23s were very worn but they were the "racy" Vittoria Corsa Evo and my 25s are open corsa cx-III. I have a weak left leg so climbing is tough but I've always been able to do it---even with these new tires I can do it but my heartrate and grinding are something. I'm thinking maybe my computer is off.
> I did a "regular" ride that I have done 4 other times in the past month. I was .75 miles per hour slower and my time was 6 minutes slower over 33 miles.
> I'm going to try the climb one more time on Friday and make the psi 90. These tires feel like rocks and I'm hoping that is the issue.
> But, if there's no difference, I'm going back to my 23s!
> ...


I have that same tire and it is a real 25 mm tire. So, your computer needs to be set for it. Do a rollout (measure the distance traveled by one revolution of the tire) and set your computer to that. 

For measuring your climb, go by time, not avg speed. Strava is great for this if you are running GPS. 

In the end, it is what you like. What we say here are just, just, words........... You have to ride, so ride with what you like. I'm a big fan of 25 tires. I come from the mtb world where I'm used to 140 mm of squish. So, feeling bumps on the road is something I try to avoid


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## Marty01 (Jun 16, 2010)

farva said:


> Take this as an opportunity to remove all those performance measuring gizmos off your bike & just ride. It's quite liberating. Judge your performance by how you feel on the ride instead.


more i ride.. more i find myself gazing at distance travelled as a curiosity than anything else.. SPECIALLY on the `other` fat tire bike... the one that sometimes.. begs to be taken on some unknown trail.. just to go exploring.. yet that same curiosity is begging to know the vertical distance climbed as well lol stupid curiosity.. i outta punch you square in the nuts!


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## cxwrench (Nov 9, 2004)

jeepsouth said:


> I switched from Shimano R500A wheels with Bontrager R2. 25c, to Reynolds Solitude Wheels with Michelin Pro 4 Service Course, 23c. I don't plan on ever going back to 25c tires, or Shimano wheels, for that matter, ever again. Lower rolling resistance, better speed, etc. with the 23c's.


you do realize that the reynolds wheels are over a pound lighter than the shimano's, don't you? not knowing your weight and the pressure you had the tires inflated to obviously makes a difference, so until you let us know about that i can't say w/ absolute certainty that you're nuts, but i'd go w/ 95% certainty.


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## Salsa_Lover (Jul 6, 2008)

Wait until you try a 32c tyre on a touring or cross bike :sarcastic:

23c is enough fat for a racing bike IME


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## jeepsouth (Nov 28, 2011)

cxwrench said:


> you do realize that the reynolds wheels are over a pound lighter than the shimano's, don't you? not knowing your weight and the pressure you had the tires inflated to obviously makes a difference, so until you let us know about that i can't say w/ absolute certainty that you're nuts, but i'd go w/ 95% certainty.


First of all, I may be nuts, but I think it is just my lack of in-depth knowledge due to my being fairly new to cycling that you're picking up on.
Yep, I know the reynolds wheels are lighter. That is one reason I bought them. That and a limited budget which prevented my buying some really great wheels.
I run/ran both sets of tires at the 95-100 psi range. I am 6' and weigh 205. I ride 100-125 miles a week over rough rural roads with a lot of hills. In my inexperienced opinion, the ride comfort is pretty much the same, but the bike feels livelier and quicker with the Reynolds/Michelin setup, although I think this is partly due to the decreased weight. I am very happy with the current set up.
Please enlighten me as to where I have gone wrong.


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## Matador-IV (Aug 2, 2010)

At my size I simply don't feel a difference between 23s & 25s. I'll stick with the 23s, you bigger guys can have the 25s.........I'll catch ya on the climb :biggrin5:


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## Stumpjumper FSR (Aug 6, 2006)

jeepsouth said:


> First of all, I may be nuts, but I think it is just my lack of in-depth knowledge due to my being fairly new to cycling that you're picking up on.
> Yep, I know the reynolds wheels are lighter. That is one reason I bought them. That and a limited budget which prevented my buying some really great wheels.
> I run/ran both sets of tires at the 95-100 psi range. I am 6' and weigh 205. I ride 100-125 miles a week over rough rural roads with a lot of hills. In my inexperienced opinion, the ride comfort is pretty much the same, but the bike feels livelier and quicker with the Reynolds/Michelin setup, although I think this is partly due to the decreased weight. I am very happy with the current set up.
> Please enlighten me as to where I have gone wrong.



I also weigh 205 (still losing weight) and used 23mm PRO 4 service course
last year mounted on Reynolds Assaults. I took the advice of Kerry, Mike T and cxwrench and switched to 25mm Pro 4's last month. I too am blown away.. smoother ride, better handling, I actually feel faster with the 25mm tires. I'll never go back to 23mm tires.


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## cxwrench (Nov 9, 2004)

jeepsouth said:


> First of all, I may be nuts, but I think it is just my lack of in-depth knowledge due to my being fairly new to cycling that you're picking up on.
> Yep, I know the reynolds wheels are lighter. That is one reason I bought them. That and a limited budget which prevented my buying some really great wheels.
> I run/ran both sets of tires at the 95-100 psi range. I am 6' and weigh 205. I ride 100-125 miles a week over rough rural roads with a lot of hills. In my inexperienced opinion, the ride comfort is pretty much the same, but the bike feels livelier and quicker with the Reynolds/Michelin setup, although I think this is partly due to the decreased weight. I am very happy with the current set up.
> Please enlighten me as to where I have gone wrong.


your pressure is good. the reason the bike feels better is all because of the wheels, not the tires. the Michelin 23mm tires are probably a lot close to 25mm in actual width. i use the 25mm Pro4 SC on one of my rear wheels (20mm wide rim) and it's over 28mm wide. i'd recommend a 25mm for the rear wheel considering your weight. the added air volume will help protect your new investment.


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## jeepsouth (Nov 28, 2011)

cxwrench said:


> your pressure is good. the reason the bike feels better is all because of the wheels, not the tires. the Michelin 23mm tires are probably a lot close to 25mm in actual width. i use the 25mm Pro4 SC on one of my rear wheels (20mm wide rim) and it's over 28mm wide. i'd recommend a 25mm for the rear wheel considering your weight. the added air volume will help protect your new investment.



Thanks for the advice.
If I understand you correctly, I wasted my money on new tires when I bought the wheels.  I would have been better off just slapping the Bontrager R2 25c's on them rather than laying out the cash for the Michelins, right? 
You may have been right in calling me nuts to begin with!!


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## cxwrench (Nov 9, 2004)

jeepsouth said:


> Thanks for the advice.
> If I understand you correctly, I wasted my money on new tires when I bought the wheels.  I would have been better off just slapping the Bontrager R2 25c's on them rather than laying out the cash for the Michelins, right?
> You may have been right in calling me nuts to begin with!!


eh, not really. the Michelin is such a nice tire and they do run wide...i wouldn't worry about it too much. it doesn't sound like you have a problem w/ bad pavement and pinch flats. 


Salsa_Lover said:


> Wait until you try a 32c tyre on a touring or cross bike :sarcastic:
> 
> 23c is enough fat for a racing bike IME


23 _fat_? what is your experience? 23mm tires are basically the norm.


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## willieboy (Nov 27, 2010)

I mounted up the 25's tonight and adjusted the Garmin. At 155 pounds anyone in that range have a PSI you like? I've read anywhere between 80 and 105. Any thoughts are appreciated.


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## Salsa_Lover (Jul 6, 2008)

cxwrench said:


> 23 _fat_? what is your experience? 23mm tires are basically the norm.


I had ridden 20,21 and 22, even some 19 ( Michelin Axial I think )

The 21 are still rideable, the 23 is my "fat set". For a road bike that is 

On the commuter I have used 28 and currently am on 32 and on the cross bike 34


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## willieboy (Nov 27, 2010)

Two rides on the 25's so far and while I can't speak to any speed difference I can verify the increased ride quality. In fact, I find it substantial. Running 100 psi rear an 95 psi front and it seems to be spot on.


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## cxwrench (Nov 9, 2004)

Salsa_Lover said:


> I had ridden 20,21 and 22, even some 19 ( Michelin Axial I think )
> 
> The 21 are still rideable, the 23 is my "fat set". For a road bike that is
> 
> On the commuter I have used 28 and currently am on 32 and on the cross bike 34


when was this? the '80's? trust me, for the last 15 years (at least) 23 has been the standard.


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## Dunbar (Aug 8, 2010)

willieboy said:


> Running 100 psi rear an 95 psi front and it seems to be spot on.


I weigh 180lbs and run 90R and 85F on my 25's but have run those pressures as heavy as 195lbs. I've never pinch flatted a tire. At your weight I'd be running 80-85R and 75-80F. I'm using regular old 19mm wide rims too (Kinlin XR270's.)


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## tarwheel2 (Jul 7, 2005)

Seriously, I don't know why anyone rides tires 23 mm and smaller. I presume that they just haven't tried 25s, or had some cheap heavy ones. Once you ride nice 25s, it's hard to go back. Some old habits just die hard. I ride with some big guys who run 23s pumped up to 140 PSI and I don't know how they stand it. I have tried to talk them into trying some 25s but they are convinced 23s are faster -- which they aren't. Of course one of my friends tried some 25s pumped up to 140 PSI and couldn't understand why they weren't any more comfortable. Doh!


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## xjbaylor (Dec 28, 2006)

looigi said:


> I'll just mention here that rims with wider bead spacing increase the installed width of a tire allowing it to be run at lower pressure. 23mm tires installed on 23mm wide HED C2 rims measure ~25mm wide. 25mm tires on the same rim are close to ~28mm wide. In each case, you can generally lower the pressure to be appropriate for the installed width rather than the nominal tire width.


Michelin Lithion 2's in 25mm measured 26.4mm immediately upon installation on my A23's. 23mm GP4k's measured just under 25mm for an additional data point. I am hoping to get some Ultremo's in 28, and I will measure those as well.


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## xjbaylor (Dec 28, 2006)

willieboy said:


> I mounted up the 25's tonight and adjusted the Garmin. At 155 pounds anyone in that range have a PSI you like? I've read anywhere between 80 and 105. Any thoughts are appreciated.


I weigh 165 and I run 80F/85R with 25's mounted on 23mm rims. Assuming you are running a narrower rim a pressure closer to 90/95 would be a good place to start. Adjust up or down from there depending on your preferences. Whatever you do I recommend trying a lot of different pressures. Experiment until you find what works best _for you._


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## tsunayoshi (Dec 3, 2009)

I'm 155lbs, 25mm Bontrager R3 on 23mm rims (18mm internal width). I run 90psi and that is the sweet spot for me, comfortable and cornering is excellent.


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## willieboy (Nov 27, 2010)

Appreciate all the feedback for sure. I think I'll go with 95 front and 100 rear tomorrow and see how it feels. It's a bit of a climbing loop and the first to rides were somewhat flat. Thank you again for all the input. I like this forum


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## cyclintruckin (Feb 10, 2012)

I made the switch from 23 to 25 a couple of months ago. There is really not that much of a difference to me. All this talk re: air pressure, being a big guy @ 6'3 230ish. I tried the 23's and 25's between 95 to 100 but seemed a little squishy to me. I have settled on 115 front and rear with 25's and have not noticed any speed reduction or lugging up hills. Am I off or does this sound about right where I should be ?


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## willieboy (Nov 27, 2010)

After riding three times on the 25's I'm sold for sure. Just seems much more comfortable, no speed loss (might be a little faster) and descending is amazing. Once I wear out the 23's on my other bike it will be getting them as well.


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## SystemShock (Jun 14, 2008)

Enoch562 said:


> This was the second time I rode some 4000 S/ 25c tires. I've tried them on 2 different bikes. Once with a wide rim (SL23), and once with a slightly more narrow rim. I'm 163 lbs running 80 front 85 rear. I'm totaly blown away. It really takes all the chatter out of the rough roads and feels just great on the smooth stuff.
> 
> I think I'm sold


Apparently, you're not the only one. Most of the 2013 Giro field is riding 25mm now.

*http://forums.roadbikereview.com/ge...on/2013-giro-90%-field-25mm-tires-305815.html*


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## willieboy (Nov 27, 2010)

Now all I have to do if find a buyer for the 23mm Continental 4000S tires I just ordered  Sitting in my parts box. Might be time for eBay.


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## MerlinAma (Oct 11, 2005)

SystemShock said:


> Apparently, you're not the only one. Most of the 2013 Giro field is riding 25mm now.
> 
> *http://forums.roadbikereview.com/ge...on/2013-giro-90%-field-25mm-tires-305815.html*


But - they are 25mm tubulars don't you think?


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## SystemShock (Jun 14, 2008)

MerlinAma said:


> But - they are 25mm tubulars don't you think?


Sure. But the pro teams can ride any width tubies they want. They're choosing 25mm.

If they were restricted to using only clinchers, what would lead you to believe that it would shake out differently?


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## Pitts Pilot (Dec 5, 2011)

Willieboy - I'm also 155 on the Defy Advanced frame and Pro 4's (25mm.) Keep creeping the pressure down until it doesn't feel right. I think you'll go a touch lower than you are now. I now usually ride 80/75 - but I'm on a HED C2 rim, so the tire is measuring 28mm.


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## TmB123 (Feb 8, 2013)

ziscwg said:


> For measuring your climb, go by time, not avg speed. Strava is great for this if you are running GPS.


Actually, Strava is a bit crap for that. Depending on the sampling rate of the device you are using, segment length can vary by quite a bit. This is why there are so many false KOM's with high avg speeds etc. (other than those done in vehicles)

back to 23mm v 25mm, i cant pick any straight line performance difference between them (Shimano C24 and C50 wheels with Conti GP4000S) other than the 25's being more comfortable, although that may be because I run them at slightly lower pressure also.

I like the cornering feel of the 25's too better than the 23's.


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## eickmewg (Feb 11, 2012)

Last year I got some Velocity A23 wheels and have been using 23 mm Vittoria Open Corsa CX tires which measured out about 25 mm. The rear tire was needing replacement and I decided to try some Vittoria Open Corsa CX tires in 25 mm. They measure out at between 27 and 28 mm on my rims. I've got several hundred miles on these running about 80/90 f/r and I think they are nicer than the 23 mm's. Certainly a more comfortable ride and they are nicer in the corners. So, to really go whole hog, I've got some Vredestein latex tubes to try with these tires. In sum, I like the wider rims and tires and I hope I like the latex tubes.


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## r1lee (Jul 22, 2012)

eickmewg said:


> Last year I got some Velocity A23 wheels and have been using 23 mm Vittoria Open Corsa CX tires which measured out about 25 mm. The rear tire was needing replacement and I decided to try some Vittoria Open Corsa CX tires in 25 mm. They measure out at between 27 and 28 mm on my rims. I've got several hundred miles on these running about 80/90 f/r and I think they are nicer than the 23 mm's. Certainly a more comfortable ride and they are nicer in the corners. So, to really go whole hog, I've got some Vredestein latex tubes to try with these tires. In sum, I like the wider rims and tires and I hope I like the latex tubes.


i'm curious, are you able to find these tires anymore? Ribble, Chainreaction and Wiggle all have teh Vittoria Open Corsa EVO CX as discontinued.


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## clydeone (Oct 25, 2011)

xjbaylor said:


> Michelin Lithion 2's in 25mm measured 26.4mm immediately upon installation on my A23's. 23mm GP4k's measured just under 25mm for an additional data point. I am hoping to get some Ultremo's in 28, and I will measure those as well.


seen any reviews on the Ultremo's yet? I have looking for a tire for the last 2 years that was basically a GP4000S in 28 -- don't know how I missed these but they sound perfect


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## willieboy (Nov 27, 2010)

Pitts Pilot said:


> Willieboy - I'm also 155 on the Defy Advanced frame and Pro 4's (25mm.) Keep creeping the pressure down until it doesn't feel right. I think you'll go a touch lower than you are now. I now usually ride 80/75 - but I'm on a HED C2 rim, so the tire is measuring 28mm.


I actually did some experimenting and found that 95/90 seems to be the sweet spot. I have these on my Lynskey R230 which is all I'm riding. The Giant was a great bike but it's since been taken apart and I'm selling the frame set.


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## eickmewg (Feb 11, 2012)

I was about to buy my Vittoria Open Corsa EVO CX 25 mm tires from Nashbar with a free shipping deal but I waited too long. I then found a pair at a cheaper price and with free shipping on ebay. The merchant was velomine. I had previously bought tires from this outfit and they have a 99.9% positive rating. If you are interested, I'd check out velomine's ebay deal.


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## willieboy (Nov 27, 2010)

Velomine is a great shop.


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## mattotoole (Jan 3, 2008)

clydeone said:


> seen any reviews on the Ultremo's yet? I have looking for a tire for the last 2 years that was basically a GP4000S in 28 -- don't know how I missed these but they sound perfect


Ultremo ZX are awesome but pretty thin and wear quickly. This might be OK if they weren't so expensive.

Ultremo DD have more rubber on them and wear better, but aren't available in 28mm.

Conti makes a 28mm version of their regular Grand Prix, but only with a wire bead, and it's hard to find in the US.


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