# Shopping Tarmac, seeking your input



## ohioathlete (May 2, 2015)

I've narrowed my selection to 2 brands/models, one of which being the Specialized Tarmac. LBS has the following offerings for very near the same price...

2012 S-Works Tarmac SLR SRAM Red (10 speed)...*NOS
Or
2016 Tarmac Expert (11 speed Ultegra)

Please help me by telling me which you would choose and why. 

Also, if you ride either a size 54 or 56, would you mind sharing your basic body dimensions (height, inseam and arm length)? It seems I am between sizes with my inseam pointing to a 54 and overall height a 56. With the simple adjustments of test riding, it felt as though either could work and the correct reach could be dialed into perfection with a professional fitting. 

Thanks in advance!


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## MMsRepBike (Apr 1, 2014)

What are the components and wheels like? Frames seem about the same. The Groupset is personal preference, mine being the Ultegra there. 

I have a 2012 S-Works in size 54. I'm 5' 8-9" with a 32" inseam, so long legs for my height. I could ride a 49 or a 52 just the same seeing how the reach is the same. I chose the 54 to eliminate all spacers under the stem and it fits great with a 100mm stem and 80mm reach bars. I don't know my arm length but I think my reach is about the same as my height.


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## ohioathlete (May 2, 2015)

MMsRepBike said:


> What are the components and wheels like? Frames seem about the same. The Groupset is personal preference, mine being the Ultegra there.


I have one of each and guess I prefer the separate interfaces of the Red but maybe not enough given it is 10 speed. The components and wheels are as follows...
SpecificationDescriptionFrameSpecialized S-Works FACT 11r-carbonForkSpecialized S-Works FACT-carbonRims/WheelsRoval Fusee SLXHubsSee Rims/WheelsSpokesSee Rims/WheelsTiresSpecialized S-Works Turbo, 700 x 23c w/BlackBelt puncture protectionCranksetSpecialized S-Works Fact carbonChainrings53/39Front DerailleurSRAM RedRear DerailleurSRAM RedRear CogsSRAM Red, 10-speed: 11-25ShiftersSRAM RedHandlebarsSpecialized S-Works Tarmac carbonTape/GripsSpecialized S-WorksStemSpecialized S-Works ProSetBrake LeversSRAM RedBrakesSRAM RedSaddleSpecialized Body Geometry Romin Pro w/carbon railsSeatpostSpecialized S-Works FACT-carbon

<tbody>

</tbody>Unless you told me these were incredible wheels at a very low weight, they would either be hung on the wall or hit eBay the following day. 



MMsRepBike said:


> I have a 2012 S-Works in size 54. I'm 5' 8-9" with a 32" inseam, so long legs for my height. I could ride a 49 or a 52 just the same seeing how the reach is the same. I chose the 54 to eliminate all spacers under the stem and it fits great with a 100mm stem and 80mm reach bars. I don't know my arm length but I think my reach is about the same as my height.


I am the polar opposite...5'9.5-10" with 30.5" inseam. So, I would either have the headset raised on the 54 to accommodate the raised saddle position or have it bottomed out to increase the reach of the 56. As stated above, you prefer no spacers below the stem...why is this?

Thanks so much!


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## 11spd (Sep 3, 2015)

Hands down the '16 Tarmac Expert...a better frame than the '12 Sworks...almost the same carbon 10r vs. 11r...but frame geometry improved on '16.
Also a step up with Ultegra 11s versus 10s Sram.
No brainer...go for the new bike. No stopping the march of tech and new of course is new versus used.


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## Rashadabd (Sep 17, 2011)

ohioathlete said:


> As stated above, you prefer no spacers below the stem...why is this?
> 
> Thanks so much!


For a lot of folks, they like the look better: it's cleaner, sleaker, and more aerodynamic, but others argue that it increases stiffness and allows the bike to handle the way it was supposed to. Their argument is that the headtube is stiffer than the combination of the fork's steerer tube and the spacers and that the bike was designed to be ridden with minimal spacers. I usually say to each his own on these kinds of things, but I strongly suggest getting the bike you feel the most comfortable in the drops for an extended period of time on. Sit in that trainer or out on that test ride and be honest with yourself about which bike feels more comfortable. It's really important and you can get blinded by your conscious and/or subconscious preference for one bike over the other. Force yourself to try to feel the difference in the setups and have the fitter take a picture of you on each bike so that you can see visually what you look like on the hoods and in the drops to evaluate which one is more comfy for you.


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## MMsRepBike (Apr 1, 2014)

ohioathlete said:


> As stated above, you prefer no spacers below the stem...why is this?
> 
> Thanks so much!


I'm fortunate enough to both know my fitment exactly and to be able to buy any bike I want. This gives me the ability to choose the bike with the geometry that fits me best without needing steerer spacers or a strange length stem. So given the choice, I will always go without spacers for the reasons noted above. There is no negative to it and a whole host of positives so that's the route I go because I can. If a bike's geometry would make it so I needed spacers I wouldn't buy the bike. I have 4 road bikes and none of them have any spacers under the stem. They have varying angled/length stems to account for their different geometries.


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## robt57 (Jul 23, 2011)

MMsRepBike said:


> I'm fortunate enough to both know my fitment exactly and to be able to buy any bike I want.


Fortunate or educated?  Or fortunate to be educated...


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## jnbrown (Dec 9, 2009)

Is the 2012 a SL4 (not SLR) ?
I would go with the 2016 because its 11 speed and newer components.
In theory the 2012 S-Works might be stiffer and a tiny bit lighter, but Tarmacs are really stiff bikes to begin with. Its the reason I sold my 2011 S-Works Tarmac and bought a Cannondale EVO, it was too stiff for me. At the time I bought it the Specialized shop told me S-Works has a better ride due to the more involved carbon layup but I am not sure I believe that. Why don't you test ride them to see which one you like best?


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## ohioathlete (May 2, 2015)

jnbrown said:


> Is the 2012 a SL4 (not SLR) ?
> 
> Why don't you test ride them to see which one you like best?


My mistake. It is an SL4. And there is no need to take them both out again. I've sobered up from drinking the Kool-Aid. Thanks to all for talking some sense into me. Now it's time to decide between sizes of the '16 Expert.


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## NealH (May 2, 2004)

Definitely the '16 Expert is the way to go. Ultegra is just soooo much better than anything Sram makes. And for sizing, I tend to agree that you have to put a bunch of spacers under the stem, then you need a bigger size.


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## TricrossRich (Mar 26, 2014)

Personally, I say go with the color you like best... The '16 expert is maybe a touch better, but probably only marginally, if at all, but IMO the '12 SWorks SRAM Red bike (assuming its the satin carbon/flo red model) is pretty sweet. I'd say pick that up, dump the components and throw Ultegra on it and you've got a winner.


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## ohioathlete (May 2, 2015)

TricrossRich said:


> Personally, I say go with the color you like best... The '16 expert is maybe a touch better, but probably only marginally, if at all, but IMO the '12 SWorks SRAM Red bike (assuming its the satin carbon/flo red model) is pretty sweet. I'd say pick that up, dump the components and throw Ultegra on it and you've got a winner.


You're funny! Do you think someone who would ask strangers which bike to purchase is capable of dumping old and throwing on new? Ha. My skill set is currently limited to tires, tubes, chains, and cassettes. I do like your idea but am sad to say I cannot execute it. However, the good news is they are quite similar looking...


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## Stumpjumper FSR (Aug 6, 2006)

TricrossRich said:


> Personally, I say go with the color you like best... The '16 expert is maybe a touch better, but probably only marginally, if at all, but IMO the '12 SWorks SRAM Red bike (assuming its the satin carbon/flo red model) is pretty sweet. I'd say pick that up, dump the components and throw Ultegra on it and you've got a winner.


Dump SRAM Red for Ultegra, seriously?

I have both and if I had to pick one it would be RED hands down, no comparison.


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## ohioathlete (May 2, 2015)

Now that we have decided on the '16 Expert, might I ask your opinions on size? I have been riding a Trek Madone, 56cm. I had previously asked for input under a different thread and value the information I received. That said, I would like to ask Tarmac owners for their opinions. At just under 5'10" with a short inseam and regular arm length, I have always felt I have been riding a slightly larger frame than I should be on. I wish the seat was a bit higher for a better hip angle to achieve more power. Key point: This is exercise science-based and not influenced by others' having their seats well above their bars. Maybe the change in brand will better fit me at the current size?

The following are the geometries of my current 56 cm Madone, Tarmac 56 cm, and Tarmac 54 cm, respectively. Following this information are pictures that might possibly help further. They show the results of a trusted professional fitment with a 120 mm stem, +/- 6 degrees. Current saddle height (measured from top center of saddle to middle of crank) is 712 mm.

Head Tube.....170(Mad)...160(Tar56)...140(Tar54)
Seat Tube......533(Mad)...530(Tar56)...510(Tar54)
Frame Reach..387(Mad)...395(Tar56)...387(Tar54)
Frame Stack...577(Mad)...564(Tar56)...543(Tar54)
E.T.T..............560(Mad)...565(Tar56)...548(Tar54)















(I sincerely apologize for the rotation and do not know how to correct it)

I understand the value of riding both as well as the opinion of a professional as to how I feel and look on both sizes. That said, I do not trust my ability to decide what will feel better 50 miles down the road from riding each a short distance on a trainer or brief test ride. Further, its tough for me to accept the opinion of an employee/shop who stands to make money from the sale. So, can anyone offer a suggestion of size based on the little information provided above?

Thanks so very much!


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## Timmy269 (Aug 11, 2015)

I have the same question. I ginna buy A Sworks tarmac 2016 but I don't know what size I have to take for my 31" inseam and 1m73 cm height


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## 11spd (Sep 3, 2015)

56 will be comfort fit...tunable in reach by stem length.
54 will be race fit. You can ride each.

56 satisfies your longer torso and 54 matches a shorter head tube to your shortish inseam.

Flexibility is the key. If you aren't a racy rider...can you keep up with the A group? Then a 56 maybe better.

But that is spec sheet of fit and honestly a lot of fit is personal preference...like how much saddle setback you prefer and drop.

PS: Lance for example is your height albeit with average to slightly longer legs and rode a 58cm Trek throughout his career...he likes a long and taller bike.


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## Gregon2wheels (May 7, 2013)

11spd's response looks about right.

I'm 5'10 with a 31" inseam. The 54 fit my legs just fine, but the reach to the bars was way too short. Even the 56 requires a 130 stem and 44 bars to fit me. (I used to ride what would today be considered a 58) I went with the 56. You'd probably be fine with the 54 IMO.

What I have found personally is that Specialized and Trek geometries are about half a size apart, if that makes sense. The numbers you show above (looks like an H2 geometry to me) show that you need to be able to get lower comfortably on the Tarmac for you to fit it. A bike that doesn't fit is not a bargain no matter the price.

Also, I don't know what your dealer is selling a 2016 Expert for, but my dealer was able to get a ~ 30% discount from Specialized for a 2015 Expert compared to a 2016. Only real differences are the color and the tires (Turbo Pros on the 2015 and not S-works).


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## ohioathlete (May 2, 2015)

11spd said:


> 56 will be comfort fit...tunable in reach by stem length.
> 54 will be race fit. You can ride each.
> 
> 56 satisfies your longer torso and 54 matches a shorter head tube to your shortish inseam.
> ...





Gregon2wheels said:


> 11spd's response looks about right.
> 
> I'm 5'10 with a 31" inseam. The 54 fit my legs just fine, but the reach to the bars was way too short. Even the 56 requires a 130 stem and 44 bars to fit me. (I used to ride what would today be considered a 58) I went with the 56. You'd probably be fine with the 54 IMO.
> 
> ...


Many thanks to you both! I am flexible and can handle a racier feel to warrant owning a 54. Also, I have been around this forum long enough to realize my "stable" is about ten bikes shy of the norm at this point, and a 54 cm Tarmac certainly will fill a void in my repertoire. Be assured I will be trying for 30% off a '15 tomorrow or Monday. <- A special thanks for this heads up.


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## TricrossRich (Mar 26, 2014)

ohioathlete said:


> You're funny! Do you think someone who would ask strangers which bike to purchase is capable of dumping old and throwing on new? Ha. My skill set is currently limited to tires, tubes, chains, and cassettes. I do like your idea but am sad to say I cannot execute it. However, the good news is they are quite similar looking...
> 
> View attachment 310951
> View attachment 310952


I'm not suggesting you take anything off... they have these great places called "local bike stores" where they will quite happily build/repair your bike as you see fit. You didn't have a preference, so I was simply stating mine. The biggest difference between the SL4 and the "New Tarmac" frame (SL5?) is the Rider First Engineering, which if you believe their marketing, affected frames at both ends of the sizing spectrum more drastically. Since you're looking at 54's or 56's, I don't really think you'll see a huge difference, so for me, the choice becomes mostly about color. You're right, They are pretty similar, except for the lime green on the '16. I'm not really a fan of lime green to begin with, but even if it was some "wild" color that I did like, I'd probably shy away from it just because those colors go in and our of style more quickly. The classic black/red and white of the SWorks, will always look good.



Stumpjumper FSR said:


> Dump SRAM Red for Ultegra, seriously?
> 
> I have both and if I had to pick one it would be RED hands down, no comparison.


Ehhh... perhaps if it was current SRAM red 11 speed, but its the older tech... which the OP didn't seem to really favor. Obviously, SRAM Red is a top tier group (even if it isn't current) and the Ultegra is one step down, but let's be honest... we aren't exactly talking huge differences in the overall user experience here... both will get the job done and perform excellently. I guess I could have just as easily, said, pull the SRAM off and put on DA9000, I am spending his money not mine... LOL Would that have made you feel better? LOL I personally prefer Shimano stuff, but that doesn't mean that I think SRAM is bad, its just what I've earned a know.


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## Gregon2wheels (May 7, 2013)

What did you pick?


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## ohioathlete (May 2, 2015)

Gregon2wheels said:


> What did you pick?


Sadly, I am not the proud owner of a Tarmac, YET! I am hoping the deal, either on a '15 Expert or the '12 S-Works will improve as we get closer to the end of the year. Can anyone answer any or all of these questions...

1) To get the best deal on the previous year's model, does the bike necessarily have to be in stock at the LBS? Or, will Specialized ship a discounted bike at this time to move product before the end of the year?
2) How long will a LBS keep old stock on the floor before taking it off the books? 
3) What is the SRAM Red 10 speed groupset worth if I sold it to recoup some of what I would spend on an 11 speed groupset of my choosing?
4) For those of you who advised me to buy the '16 Expert, is there a price at which you could not pass up the '12 S-Works? *realistic numbers only please*

If I am unable to procure the '15 Expert or '12 S-Works at a song by the end of the year, I will be excitedly purchasing a '16 Expert after the first of the year when holiday spending winds down. Thanks again to all!


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## TricrossRich (Mar 26, 2014)

ohioathlete said:


> Sadly, I am not the proud owner of a Tarmac, YET! I am hoping the deal, either on a '15 Expert or the '12 S-Works will improve as we get closer to the end of the year. Can anyone answer any or all of these questions...
> 
> 1) To get the best deal on the previous year's model, does the bike necessarily have to be in stock at the LBS? Or, will Specialized ship a discounted bike at this time to move product before the end of the year?


No.. the bike doesn't necessarily have to be in stock to get a discount. I'm sure there are still some '15s left in Specialized's warehouses, and the big S has already discount them. Most bikes stores will usually pass on that saving to their customer. IMO, though, you have a better chance of getting a higher discount if the bike is already in stock at your LBS, because that store has already spent the money on that bike. The longer it sits, the harder it can be for them to move that bike.. especially if its a less than desirable color. However, I don't think that the discount is likely to change between now and the beginning of nest year though... so waiting will only increase your chances of not getting the bike you want. It looks like you're looking at a 54 or 56, which Specialized seems to stock the highest quantities of, but at this point in the year, its already possible that those sizes could be all sold out in certain models and colors. If they told you that they can order you a '15 expert, in the color you want, size you want and they're passing on the discount that Specialized is giving them, I'd take it.



ohioathlete said:


> 2) How long will a LBS keep old stock on the floor before taking it off the books?


as long as it takes to sell it... some shops are more aggressive. They want to move bikes and make room on their floor for new models, so they may reduce prices quicker, while some shops don't. it really all depends on the attitude of the store owner.



ohioathlete said:


> 3) What is the SRAM Red 10 speed groupset worth if I sold it to recoup some of what I would spend on an 11 speed groupset of my choosing?


Well, a new Sram Red 22 group can be had for $1100 or so... so I'd bet you can get $500-600 pretty easily. Sram Force 22 is about $650 so at $600, a new Red 10 speed takeoff group will still look pretty attractive.



ohioathlete said:


> 4) For those of you who advised me to buy the '16 Expert, is there a price at which you could not pass up the '12 S-Works? *realistic numbers only please*
> 
> If I am unable to procure the '15 Expert or '12 S-Works at a song by the end of the year, I will be excitedly purchasing a '16 Expert after the first of the year when holiday spending winds down. Thanks again to all!


If the Sworks is at $3200 or less, I'd go for the SWorks... if it is, you can sell the Sram group for 500-600 and put either DA9000 or Red22 on it and basically be at the same price as the expert, but with an SWorks frame and a top tier groupset.


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## antihero77 (Jul 26, 2011)

At the end of the day buy what fits you better. You are not going to notice any diff between both bikes. I ride a f8 and a Tarmac sport as my winter bike. I love the sport as much as my F8. I would go Shimano but that is purely what I like. So really just buy what ever u like more. In the end it's all about the engine.


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