# Newbie here..... why the Lance hate?



## chaztrip (Jul 23, 2009)

hey guys and gals.... I have been away from the scene for a while and just started biking again!!

So here is my serious question... why the hate for Lance? I enjoyed watching him in the years of his prime and I thought this years TDF was cool..... but is there some politics or other things that my simple mind has missed? 

I am not trying to incite a flame Lance thread but really would like to know the anger and angst against him.

Thanks
Chaz


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## Dwayne Barry (Feb 16, 2003)

I think it largely comes from two sources.

He's not always demonstrated that he's that great of a person (i.e. he can be an *sshole, regardless of how well he races a bike and his cancer work).

Probably bigger issue for most "haters" is they are pretty certain he was a huge doper along with the rest of his contemporaries and really don't like being taken for suckers and asked to believe in "miracles" by him.


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## Christine (Jul 23, 2005)

Yeah leaving his family only to break up with the new fiance when she came down with cancer and b/c she *gasp* wanted to have his baby ASAP......and then go have a baby with a young model after doing the Hollywood thing.......

If you're only keeping track of his biking career, though, it's hard not to love him.


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## elcameron (Aug 10, 2002)

I personally don't care about his personal life. If you are interested in someone else's romances, power to you. 

I think a lot of it has to do with being tired of hearing his name. Even when he has a bad day, the announcers focus on him instead of taking a look at some of the younger up and coming riders. I like to watch him ride, and he is definitely one of the greats in the sport, but I ask myself, if everything went as planned by Bruyneel and Armstrong (instead of Contador attacking on his own) would Contador have won the tour? Or would the team all been working toward the glory of Lance?


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## Francis Cebedo (Aug 1, 2001)

The Lance hate has actually diminished to a fraction of its former glory. It's more of a Lance love fest right now. And IMHO, largely justified.

A lot of that bad energy has transformed into a Contador lynch crew unfortunately.

In general, this board and this group have a lot of anger towards anything that exhibits success. "We like to tear down our heroes and knock them off the pedestal. " They say.

But the positive is it's balanced by others who have and overwhelming passion, apreciation and knowledge of the sport.

I try to stay positive. I encourage everyone to ask: What if there was no Lance? No Contador? No VS? No Bobke? What then?

fc


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## Mootsie (Feb 4, 2004)

I think the haters are a minority and most people like him. Look at Versus ratings this year. I think they are up 83%. That's the Lance factor.


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## elcameron (Aug 10, 2002)

Mootsie said:


> I think the haters are a minority and most people like him. Look at Versus ratings this year. I think they are up 83%. That's the Lance factor.


I think you're right, but as mentioned in another thread, other than LA, who is your favorite third placed TdF finisher. I'd say most people couldn't even remember one. Yet Lance is bathed in glory for finishing third. Nice comeback, but a lot of the third goes to the team.


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## Len J (Jan 28, 2004)

- PR Machine...check
- Arrogant....check
- Yer wit me or again' me.....check
- More likely than not doping while simultaneously not only denying it, but trying to translate...if you don't believe me, you are not a cancer supporter.....check
- Prosecution complex....check
- Terrible teammate....check
- It's all about LA....check
- One trick wonder....check


There is a lot not to admire about him. OTOH, intended or not, his success has given hope to many cancer survivors. 

Like most people, he's made up of the good, the bad & the ugly. But, for the LA zealots, any questioning of him seems to be taken personally.................and that's one of the most polarizing things surrounding LA.

Len


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## Mootsie (Feb 4, 2004)

elcameron said:


> I think you're right, but as mentioned in another thread, other than LA, who is your favorite third placed TdF finisher. I'd say most people couldn't even remember one. Yet Lance is bathed in glory for finishing third. Nice comeback, but a lot of the third goes to the team.


Hey don't forgot Bobby Julich. He's my favorite 3rd place Tour guy.


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## loubnc (May 8, 2008)

elcameron said:


> I think you're right, but as mentioned in another thread, other than LA, who is your favorite third placed TdF finisher. I'd say most people couldn't even remember one.


Levi...


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## Mike T. (Feb 3, 2004)

francois said:


> The Lance hate has actually diminished to a fraction of its former glory. It's more of a Lance love fest right now. And IMHO, largely justified.
> A lot of that bad energy has transformed into a Contador lynch crew unfortunately.
> In general, this board and this group have a lot of anger towards anything that exhibits success. *"We like to tear down our heroes and knock them off the pedestal. "* They say.
> But the positive is it's balanced by others who have and overwhelming passion, apreciation and knowledge of the sport.
> ...


Agree. And agree especially with the red words. There's too many people who hate winners. Too many into the National Enquirer type stuff and they dwell too much on what they THINK the star's lives are like. And this sells newspapers, gets website hits, TV ratings, sells Trek bikes and Nike sneakers. And that's the plan; LA is a selling-machine and as there is no such thing as bad publicity, all the Lance-haters fall into the trap.

I say good for Lance. He's smiling all the way to the bank. I'm jealous.


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## SwiftSolo (Jun 7, 2008)

chaztrip said:


> hey guys and gals.... I have been away from the scene for a while and just started biking again!!
> 
> So here is my serious question... why the hate for Lance? I enjoyed watching him in the years of his prime and I thought this years TDF was cool..... but is there some politics or other things that my simple mind has missed?
> 
> ...


Mate,
The world is made up of winners and losers. Contrary to popular belief-not everyone loves a winner. In fact, losers generally hate winners as they serve to remind them of their own failings. They will exaggerate any flaw in a winners life / personality in an attempt to bring them down to their pathetic level. The tabloids make a living off of this personality trait.


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## mikeman (Sep 17, 2005)

elcameron said:


> I personally don't care about his personal life. If you are interested in someone else's romances, power to you.
> 
> I think a lot of it has to do with being tired of hearing his name. Even when he has a bad day, the announcers focus on him instead of taking a look at some of the younger up and coming riders. I like to watch him ride, and he is definitely one of the greats in the sport, but I ask myself, if everything went as planned by Bruyneel and Armstrong (instead of Contador attacking on his own) would Contador have won the tour? Or would the team all been working toward the glory of Lance?


How about the cycling related behaviours such as the Emma Reilly story, the Prentiss Steffan story, the Mike Anerson incidient, the Betsy Andreu/Frankie Andreu incidient, the Landis incident at Brasstown Bald, the Fillipo Simeoni incident. Yeah there is plenty in cycling to dislike him for. I do give him credit for all of the people riding bikes, buying bikes and generally considering bicycling not to be some kind of foreign behaviour. As for racing he is a dick. He is only a good teammate when everyone works only for him. No others may have personal glory, save the one time GH won a stage in the TDF. 

'Nuff said, plenty not to like on the cycling side of things.


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## mikeman (Sep 17, 2005)

Mike T. said:


> Agree. And agree especially with the red words. There's too many people who hate winners. Too many into the National Enquirer type stuff and they dwell too much on what they THINK the star's lives are like. And this sells newspapers, gets website hits, TV ratings, sells Trek bikes and Nike sneakers. And that's the plan; LA is a selling-machine and as there is no such thing as bad publicity, all the Lance-haters fall into the trap.
> 
> I say good for Lance. He's smiling all the way to the bank. I'm jealous.


I loved Indurain, love Lemond, love Merckx, but loath Armstrong the cyclist. Arrogant to worst levels possible. Pretty much focused on Lance the brand. He has sold a lot of bikes, but a great sport he is not. Petty, vindictive, overbearing, not a lot of personal characteristics I would want instilled in my boys. Great ambassador for those who do not pay attention to the details. You can be a great champion, see Indurain, and not an ahole at the same time.


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## mikeman (Sep 17, 2005)

Len J said:


> - PR Machine...check
> - Arrogant....check
> - Yer wit me or again' me.....check
> - More likely than not doping while simultaneously not only denying it, but trying to translate...if you don't believe me, you are not a cancer supporter.....check
> ...


Spot freaking on Len. Could not have said it better. Teammates are only the people who ride FOR Lance. The LA fanboys ignore the immense feet of clay on this guy. What is weird is how much the fanboys hate Lemond for pointing out that Lance is not the guy the PR machine wants everyone to believe. The fanboys want their fantasy to remain unbroken. That is why, no matter the weight of the evidence that LA is not what the PR machine puts forward, LA will never let his guard down defending his image. He ends up being a very Shakespearean figure, complicated and flawed and unblinkingly telling untruths regardless the situation. That chip on his shoulder is more like a boulder now.


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## Snakebit (Mar 18, 2002)

I have been and remain a Lance fan but watching his interview today is a glimpse into why others may not share that feeling. When asked if he was celebrating Contador's yellow he seemed a bit petulent to me. He would not be third had Contador not helped him up that last French hill yesterday. THAT is probably a particular thorn under his saddle. I do try to overlook the egos of these men, how could they ride the way they do if they did not posess one of that size? The only other place one might need to believe in their own vast superiority over the rest of the world as intensely may be as a fighter pilot. FWIW, Greg LeMond is my favorite American rider.


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## gebbyfish (Apr 26, 2002)

I missed the end of that interview Snakebit. That's a shame that he is not thankful for what Contador did yesterday. I don't think there is any way that LA holds on to third if AC doesn't stay with him and I think AC could have easily rode to victory yesterday if he wanted to! I only hope that with that huge ego, we don't see LA reach any major political office, which has been rumored for some time. That huge ego and ultimate power would be a bad combination!


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## 55x11 (Apr 24, 2006)

gebbyfish said:


> I missed the end of that interview Snakebit. That's a shame that he is not thankful for what Contador did yesterday. I don't think there is any way that LA holds on to third if AC doesn't stay with him and I think AC could have easily rode to victory yesterday if he wanted to! I only hope that with that huge ego, we don't see LA reach any major political office, which has been rumored for some time. That huge ego and ultimate power would be a bad combination!


I have news for you - everyone who runs for office NEEDS to have an enormous ego.

I think Armstrong could be really good in political office - his goal/results oriented, big picture outlook, combined with a "I am a fighter" spirit is a good combination.

It could also be good for the sport and for scientific cancer research - two lobbies I could be partial to.


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## Snakebit (Mar 18, 2002)

gebbyfish said:


> I missed the end of that interview Snakebit. That's a shame that he is not thankful for what Contador did yesterday. I don't think there is any way that LA holds on to third if AC doesn't stay with him and I think AC could have easily rode to victory yesterday if he wanted to! I only hope that with that huge ego, we don't see LA reach any major political office, which has been rumored for some time. That huge ego and ultimate power would be a bad combination!


But it has given us one hell of a run as a bike rider. Contador won me over yesterday. The King ain't dead but his reign is over even if nobody has told him yet. Long live the King.


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## dwwheels (Feb 28, 2007)

I am not a fan boy of LA but most of the greats in cycling were not nice guys on the bike.
Several men thought they could leave LA's side and "be the man" but none ever made it.

Here is a sampling:

Hamilton to CSC
Landis to Phonak
Leipheimer to Gerolsteiner
Heras to Liberty Seguros


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## Dwayne Barry (Feb 16, 2003)

dwwheels said:


> I am not a fan boy of LA but most of the greats in cycling were not nice guys on the bike.
> Several men thought they could leave LA's side and "be the man" but none ever made it.
> 
> Here is a sampling:
> ...


I'm not sure what that has to do with anything but...

How can you argue Hamilton didn't "make it', what other American has won a Monument?

Leipheimer has had his best years the last couple of years, after he left "Armstrong".

Landis won the Tour.

Didn't Heras win the Vuelta?


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## Christine (Jul 23, 2005)

Huge egos might help get attention, BUT I don't think that it's synonymous with being a good leader.

And the "losers hating winners" concept isn't so black-and-white; many people get to the top with less than ideal characteristics and tactics. In politics, it's just a shame how that works, as leaders with less ego would be more effective IMO. Otherwise, it becomes a stay-on-top-at-all-costs game for their own personal satisfaction.

LA is a total sellout, but at least he's raising money for a great cause as his cycling career comes down from its peak. Nothing wrong with capitalizing on his own success for a greater good.


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## dwwheels (Feb 28, 2007)

Dwayne Barry said:


> I'm not sure what that has to do with anything but...
> 
> How can you argue Hamilton didn't "make it', what other American has won a Monument?
> 
> ...



It has to do with why people don't like LA, because nobody was ever able to knock him off of his perch in the most scrutinized race of the year. Just like Francois stated earlier that we like to build them up and knock them down. LA left on his own terms and that is what drives people crazy. None of the guys I mentioned could surpass LA in Le Tour (The pinnacle race of the season).

I am not saying that the guys I mentioned haven't had success in their own right, but not for the length of time and under such a microscope that LA has done it under.


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## husonfirst (Jul 15, 2006)

55x11 said:


> I think Armstrong could be really good in political office - his goal/results oriented, big picture outlook, combined with a "I am a fighter" spirit is a good combination.


I think the opposite. Politicians need to be able to bring two sides together, not divide. Look at what a polarizing figure he is. His attitude is "if you're not with me, get out of my way," which would not serve him well in political life. If he ever gets voted into office, it's because he's a celebrity/sports star.


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## Mike T. (Feb 3, 2004)

fprb said:


> No kiddin'. The haters just fail to realize that the joke is on them. Hating an athlete because of their personal life? ROFL. They are actually expending energy hating somebody for a reason that has no bearing on why they watch that person in the first place.
> Lance is a dominate athlete and his attitude reflects that. He can dish out the trash talk in the peleton because guess what, he's the winner. His words are gold. So whoopee doo your favorite nobody french rider is a clean cut schoolboy? He'll never win a race.
> If we all looked at every minute detail of the lives of our favorite actors, you would find the same imperfections. Relationship problems, weird religions, weird beliefs, unhealthy habits, etc. Guess what, that's life. Fact is, they still do their job well. I still LOL at the people who "boycott" Tom Cruise because he jumped on a couch and promotes Scientology. What a bunch of mentally ill haters.


I'm with ya. If we all watched everything for what it is - entertainment - and mentally switched off when we switched the TV off we'd have much more energy to devote to what's really important. The Lances, Tom Cruises, Axel Roses, Rosie O'Donnels of this world are all actors in some form and hustling bags of money the best way they know how. How the hell can we know what they're really like? Why should we care? Watch 'em or don't watch 'em.


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## Mootsie (Feb 4, 2004)

Mike T. said:


> I'm with ya. If we all watched everything for what it is - entertainment - and mentally switched off when we switched the TV off we'd have much more energy to devote to what's really important. The Lances, Tom Cruises, Axel Roses, Rosie O'Donnels of this world are all actors in some form and hustling bags of money the best way they know how. How the hell can we know what they're really like? Why should we care? Watch 'em or don't watch 'em.


Some people love to hate and that says more about them and their issues.


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## jptaylorsg (Apr 24, 2003)

husonfirst said:


> I think the opposite. Politicians need to be able to bring two sides together, not divide. Look at what a polarizing figure he is. His attitude is "if you're not with me, get out of my way," which would not serve him well in political life. If he ever gets voted into office, it's because he's a celebrity/sports star.


I think politicians can be successful both as uniters and dividers. For instance, George W. Bush was a very successful politician, and he could be incredibly divisive, especially in his second term.

I suspect Lance would be an excellent politician, if only because he has shown an innate knack for rallying people to his cause (be it the Tours he's won after being written off or his incredible fund-raising for fighting cancer). He has also shown that he is good at surrounding himself with dynamic and exceptional people (like Bruyneel).


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## KenB (Jul 28, 2004)

chaztrip said:


> why the hate for Lance?


Simple: he doesn't like turtles.


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## lucer0 (Apr 13, 2007)

Wouldn't say I hate him, but it lowers the quality of commentary and sports journalism when its all focused towards one guy who isn't even a contender.


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## Undecided (Apr 2, 2007)

chaztrip said:


> So here is my serious question... why the hate for Lance?


I see this through a different lens, I think. It doesn't surprise me that more serious fans of cycling (who are something of a rarity in the U.S.) have a range of views on Lance Armstrong, as they do about any other rider. The strength with which those views are expressed rises in proportion to the prominence of the rider, which doesn't seem unusual. Very casual American observers of cycling---who may really only know about Lance Armstrong---have a very positive impression of Lance Armstrong, and I could see that they would be surprised that he is not held in such high esteem (as a person) by everyone.

The people who say "who cares about the guy's personality" seem to me to be missing something in how others view sport (as opposed to other entertainment). Many fans seem to be more engaged by rooting for someone or some team. The reasons for liking a particular athlete or team need not come from what they do on the bike/field/rink/court/etc. Plenty of people root for the home team, or like the athlete who went to a particular school. For whatever reason, some people with talent become fan favorites and others become the ones the fans love to hate. That's not unique to Lance Armstrong, or any sort of rarity within the human experience.


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## OES (Jan 23, 2002)

Snakebit said:


> I have been and remain a Lance fan but watching his interview today is a glimpse into why others may not share that feeling. When asked if he was celebrating Contador's yellow he seemed a bit petulent to me. He would not be third had Contador not helped him up that last French hill yesterday. THAT is probably a particular thorn under his saddle. I do try to overlook the egos of these men, how could they ride the way they do if they did not posess one of that size? The only other place one might need to believe in their own vast superiority over the rest of the world as intensely may be as a fighter pilot. FWIW, Greg LeMond is my favorite American rider.


And a presidential candidate.

For the first time in our long history, Snake, I concur with everything you say here.


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## PRB (Jun 15, 2002)

I'm neither a Lance fan nor a Lance hater though it's easy to see how people would be either. I was something of a fan when he was with Motorola but he lost me along the way. I'm not sure exactly where or why it happened but it did. I will say I get tired of hearing how he's "the greatest cyclist ever" being repeated ad nauseam in the press.



fprb said:


> No kiddin'. The haters just fail to realize that the joke is on them. Hating an athlete because of their personal life? ROFL.
> 
> If we all looked at every minute detail of the lives of our favorite actors, you would find the same imperfections. Relationship problems, weird religions, weird beliefs, unhealthy habits, etc. Guess what, that's life. Fact is, they still do their job well. I still LOL at the people who "boycott" Tom Cruise because he jumped on a couch and promotes Scientology. What a bunch of mentally ill haters.


It's a valid reason for a lot of people, regardless of whether or not <b>you</b> see it as one. Some people take a person's character and actions into consideration when evaluating the person rather than only looking at their achievements. That doesn't make them "mentally ill", it just means that they have a different value system than you do.


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## desmo13 (Jun 28, 2006)

Why would any of you, (I am am assuming none of you are in his close, or even far circle of friends and family) care about his personality or his private life? Go watch entertainment tonight or Extra. The same goes for any athlete or entertainment figure. People here bash AC for being smarmy or, or Cav for whining.. who cares? it is what they do on the bike that matters. I do not watch bike racing to provide me a moral compass on how I should live my life and treat others.


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## il sogno (Jul 15, 2002)

Len J said:


> - PR Machine...check
> - Arrogant....check
> - Yer wit me or again' me.....check
> - More likely than not doping while simultaneously not only denying it, but trying to translate...if you don't believe me, you are not a cancer supporter.....check
> ...


Once again Len says it all. 

There is a real insecurity to Lance Armstrong. A desperate need to be seen as the cowboy in the white hat. IMO all this Livestrong stuff is all about PR and all about casting LA as a white knight. It is beyond Armstrong's ability as a human being to have the humility to quietly and anonymously do charitable work for the American Cancer Society. .

A few years ago one of our regular posters here (I can't remember who) told a story about seeing a young Lance Armstrong and the US Pro Championships in Philadelphia in the early 1990's. 

There was a bunch of pediatric cancer patients there - were they leukemia patients? We're talking 5 and 6 year old kids with their hair gone, having undergone chemotherapy. Armstrong was throwing a fit in front of them something along the lines of "I ain't autographing anything for these kids until you give me my money." 

The kids were on the verge of tears and riders like Kevin Livingstone and Frankie Andreu stepped in, autographing their own caps and water bottles to calm the kids down. 

Yes Armstrong is a talented Tour rider. A great tactician and a charismatic personality. And yes he has given hope to cancer patients. But he is an arrogant, insecure egomaniac with little regard for anyone or anything that does not bring him glory. 

And raising awareness about cancer? Gimme a break! You'd have to have spent the last 80 years in a cave to not be aware of cancer!


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## il sogno (Jul 15, 2002)

Snakebit said:


> I have been and remain a Lance fan but watching his interview today is a glimpse into why others may not share that feeling. When asked if he was celebrating Contador's yellow he seemed a bit petulent to me. He would not be third had Contador not helped him up that last French hill yesterday. THAT is probably a particular thorn under his saddle. I do try to overlook the egos of these men, how could they ride the way they do if they did not posess one of that size? The only other place one might need to believe in their own vast superiority over the rest of the world as intensely may be as a fighter pilot. FWIW, Greg LeMond is my favorite American rider.


Good post, Snake. 

And LeMond is one of my favorite American riders too.


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## il sogno (Jul 15, 2002)

OES said:


> And a presidential candidate.
> 
> For the first time in our long history, Snake, I concur with everything you say here.


There was a thread here about a week ago that linked to an article on Slate comparing Lance Armstrong to Sarah Palin. Basically saying they're both psychotic. It was an interesting read.


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## il sogno (Jul 15, 2002)

lucer0 said:


> Wouldn't say I hate him, but it lowers the quality of commentary and sports journalism when its all focused towards one guy who isn't even a contender.


Oh gawd! That was an embarrassment.


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## il sogno (Jul 15, 2002)

desmo13 said:


> Why would any of you, (I am am assuming none of you are in his close, or even far circle of friends and family) care about his personality or his private life? Go watch entertainment tonight or Extra. The same goes for any athlete or entertainment figure. People here bash AC for being smarmy or, or Cav for whining.. who cares? it is what they do on the bike that matters. I do not watch bike racing to provide me a moral compass on how I should live my life and treat others.


I don't care about LA's private life and frankly I'm not that big of a Contador fan. 

I care about Lance's revolting personality because I travel around the world and I don't like the idea of someone like him being the premier American ambassador - the face of America, so to speak - in a sport I love.


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## philippec (Jun 16, 2002)

fprb said:


> He can dish out the trash talk in the peleton because guess what, he's the <b><strike>winner</strike> 2nd place runner-up</b>.


Fixed for accuracy


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## Dajianshan (Jul 15, 2007)

I wouldn't judge him on his personal life. There's lots of stuff we don't and will never know. 

I think some of the hate may come from the fact that Lance Armstrong is the first name in American cycling and every Tom, Dick and Fred knows who Lance Armstrong is. By hating him it is a way of distancing one's self from novices and armchair cyclists who can only list one professional cyclist--- Lance Armstrong. It is a mechanism for constructing authenticity as a "real" cyclist as opposed to the "poseurs" who just ride bikes. 

He also comes across as a little bit of a di*k, but that's what you get from some of the most competitive people.


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## chaztrip (Jul 23, 2009)

Well..... thanks for all the replys! Interesting reads in here. :thumbsup:


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## HikenBike (Apr 3, 2007)

SwiftSolo said:


> Mate,
> The world is made up of winners and losers. Contrary to popular belief-not everyone loves a winner. In fact, losers generally hate winners as they serve to remind them of their own failings. They will exaggerate any flaw in a winners life / personality in an attempt to bring them down to their pathetic level. The tabloids make a living off of this personality trait.


I do not like LA for all of the reasons listed in these posts. However, according to your logic I must be a loser and hate Tiger Woods, Roger Federer, etc. I reserve my disdain for the man because of all of the character witnesses by those closest to him. I wouldn't consider myself a Tiger Woods fan, but I do respect him and appreciate that he seems to be a man of character.

Plus, some people don't use the podium to determine "losers" and "winners". Someone can be a "winner" on the podium, but a "loser" as a husband, father, and friend. While that scenario can also be reversed or inverted.


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## il sogno (Jul 15, 2002)

elcameron said:


> I think you're right, but as mentioned in another thread, other than LA, who is your favorite third placed TdF finisher. I'd say most people couldn't even remember one. Yet Lance is bathed in glory for finishing third. Nice comeback, but a lot of the third goes to the team.


Greg Lemond 1984. :thumbsup: 

And I like him a lot more than I do Lance.


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## New_World_Man (Feb 12, 2007)

I never really thought much of Lance. He seemed to bring a lot of good to the sport and helped promote a good cause along the way. 

But after reading this post I now hate him, since he probably dopes and probably has a big ego and is probably a bad family man.


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## Maximus_XXIV (Nov 10, 2008)

My favorite was on ESPN this morning when they show Lance making his way to the front of the pack in Paris. They made a big deal about it like he was making an attack. Sad...

And that is why I am tired of the Lance lovers. I do not hate anyone, but I have a hard time not trying to counterbalance so much emotional and logic lacking enthusiasm.


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## wagonman01 (Jan 16, 2009)

I think Lance is a good cyclist. Period. 

I don't like the Lance press. Why hate the person for the irritating media and commentators that talk about him constantly? It's not like he's paying them to cover his every move. 

He's won 7 Tours. He has a right to be self-confident in his performance. I don't consider that arrogance. Maybe if you're a bitter person and love pulling down successful joes, you'd consider it arrogance.

This one's my favourite:



Len J said:


> - PR Machine...check
> - Arrogant....check
> - Yer wit me or again' me.....check
> - More likely than not doping while simultaneously not only denying it, but trying to translate...if you don't believe me, you are not a cancer supporter.....check
> ...


- PR Machine... for cancer? If I was Lance, I'd be milking product commercials too. Oh wait, most famous athletes do that too.
- The "doping" accusations are the most tiresome. Why don't you go do the surprise doping tests yourself. 
- "One trick wonder"... really? 7 Tours? Is it really a 'trick' or a talent? Do you have that talent?
- The rest of it sounds like just a typical American to me.

He speaks his mind. I'd rather have that - than a two-faced Tour winner/coward who only speaks out only when he's in the clear (i.e. far away, in his hometown). I'm a fan of discussion, and being honest/sincere.


Edit: 
PS... do you know who I hate? Bob Roll.


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## chrisnorton (Dec 6, 2006)

People bashing Lance as a husband or father...

Do you really know all the facts of this man's life? Even relationships with the best intentions don't work out sometimes.

When your family members or friends have a break up, you give them the benefit of the doubt, but you will never know exactly why some things happen.


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## Jason1500 (Apr 1, 2008)

Christine said:


> Yeah leaving his family only to break up with the new fiance when she came down with cancer and b/c she *gasp* wanted to have his baby ASAP......and then go have a baby with a young model after doing the Hollywood thing.......
> 
> If you're only keeping track of his biking career, though, it's hard not to love him.


Umm Lance didn't leave Sheryl Crow because she had cancer...they were broken up for awhile when she was diagnosed


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## team_sheepshead (Jan 17, 2003)

Many Americans expect our public figures to be nearly perfect, or at least not hypocrites. For many of us, when we sniff hypocrisy, we turn into "haters." But I don't like that term hater one bit. In fact, I would say it's bordering on mental illness to make a hero out of anyone who rides a bike for a living, while ignoring his human flaws. Our heroes should be the public servants--firefighters, teachers, etc. who bust their humps for a salary that would not pay Lance's laundry bill.

But I also sense that Lance demonstrates a lot of hypocrisy, which people don't like.

* He rips Contador for having a lot to learn, yet it was Lance who joined AC's team at a time when AC was clearly the best Grand Tour rider in the world. Lance pissed all over AC's garden, yet Lance makes AC the bad guy.
* Armstrong claims his drug testing, etc. is an open book. Yet he starts a public war with Simeoni and chases him down in 2004 because Simeoni dared to call Lance's doctor (Ferrari) a dope peddler.
* He purports himself to be a selfless cancer crusader for the little guy, with his new "It's About You" campaign. Yet people I know who have met and worked with Lance tell me he's a very arrogant human being.

Again, if he's a being hyper-competitive, vindictive and arrogant person, then fine. Just don't piss on our heads and tell us it's only rain.


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## CARBON110 (Apr 17, 2002)

wow 

we all are incredibly generous and forgiving of ourselves while condemning someone we have never spent time with

certainly it is easy to judge someone in the press and yes LA has done PLENTY to give reason to call him an ass - but look at yourselves and the moments where you have put foot in mouth or made rather less than favorable choice words, decisions, behavior that is reckless or unbecoming. Or why you have done so! we all struggle with inner conflict at we all have our character tested and never at a time or in a form we would prefer

How many times have you flipped at a co-worker, a family member, a spouse, a stranger, over reacted, flipped out, lost it, etc? plenty I'm sure, now add people who play mind games or make their living off your errors and are like parasites just waiting for you to have an off hand remark or screw up so they can tell the world about it - add jealousy, combating the ego of winning, fame, fortune, against modesty and a sense of humility. 

are you kidding? I know people that are immense hypocrites and totally self-righteous, people who have no laurels but feel compelled to judge others to assure themselves they are something or someone. 

yes as spectators we are entitled to our own opinions and interpretations certainly - but lets keep SOME perspective eh - lets remind ourselves not to be a little open minded that we don't know everything about a person

Michael Vick is back in the NFL - people who are responsible for governing our states pointing fingers about X and Y then turning around and doing the same privately, cops and public figures or people we trust abusing power, favoritism sparing accountability, money excusing responsibility, greed, homelessness; lets face it, it is a rough place out there and plenty of risk to accompany it. LA isn't that bad a guy and a helluva lot of fun to watch ride a bike. 

I like lance a whole lot more than some jack ass who tries to run me off the road because I'm wearing lycra or something and frankly he brings awareness for two important things to in life; cancer and cycling

I recently worked in health care in a hospital - if you want to find outrage try working in a hospital where money not patient care is number one - nothing like exploiting the sick

“Anyone can become angry - that is easy, but to be angry with the right person at the right time, and for the right purpose and in the right way - that is not within everyone's power and that is not easy.”

Aristotle 

sorry to lecture


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## Len J (Jan 28, 2004)

wagonman01 said:


> - PR Machine... for cancer? If I was Lance, I'd be milking product commercials too. Oh wait, most famous athletes do that too.


I was pointing to the way LA uses the press to push LA....not his livestrong campaign.........and if you paid attention the last 3 weeks, you would have noticed.



> - The "doping" accusations are the most tiresome. Why don't you go do the surprise doping tests yourself.


If you knew what you were talking about, you would realize that less than 1% of cyclists caught doping are caught by the testing. I wasn't commenting on his doping but rather how he does one thing and says another.




> - "One trick wonder"... really? 7 Tours? Is it really a 'trick' or a talent? Do you have that talent?


You may not agree (& I don't completely) but after his bout with cancer, the only thing he raced was the tour........in some eyes that makes him less of a champion than someone who rode the entire season.



> - The rest of it sounds like just a typical American to me.
> 
> He speaks his mind. I'd rather have that - than a two-faced Tour winner/coward who only speaks out only when he's in the clear (i.e. far away, in his hometown). I'm a fan of discussion, and being honest/sincere.


 
The OP asked why the hate...I delineated most of the reasons that people don't worship him. You can disagree with them as being reality, but they are the reasons.

len


Edit: 
PS... do you know who I hate? Bob Roll.[/quote]


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## wagonman01 (Jan 16, 2009)

We'll just have to agree to disagree I suppose.


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## il sogno (Jul 15, 2002)

Len J said:


> Edit:
> PS... do you know who I hate? Bob Roll.


Oh man... we need a thread like this one for Bobke.


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## gegarrenton (Jul 10, 2009)

Len J said:


> Edit:
> PS... do you know who I hate? Bob Roll.


Why do you have to "hate" anyone? I mean I hate like Hitler or Osama, but seriously, you have actual hatred toward a person you know from T.V.? That seems like a stretch.


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## fast ferd (Jan 30, 2009)

Congrats to the OP for giving the Lance bashers another platform to justify their misdirected hatred. 

Give Lance a break. He went thru an awful ordeal with his cancer. He seems to do what he can to redeem his misgivings. Put in front of the camera during the tour, Lance proved savvy and articulate. But probably did not give some of you enough of the warm and fuzzies, allowing many to hang on to their hatred towards him. Get a life.

And, LenJ, I generally like what you have to say and your initial post amused me a little, but Wagonman got the best of you. Replying to his excellent post just made you come across as defensive and pissy.

Don't mess with the Bobke, tho, Wagonman!


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## il sogno (Jul 15, 2002)

chrisnorton said:


> People bashing Lance as a husband or father...
> 
> Do you really know all the facts of this man's life? Even relationships with the best intentions don't work out sometimes.
> 
> When your family members or friends have a break up, you give them the benefit of the doubt, but you will never know exactly why some things happen.


Funny.... Only one "Lance hater" in this thread mentioned his personal life. Everyone else who posted about his personal life has been a "Lance lover".


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## livin4lax09 (Mar 15, 2008)

people like to hate those who are successful. That's just how it works.


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## JohnHemlock (Jul 15, 2006)

husonfirst said:


> I think the opposite. Politicians need to be able to bring two sides together, not divide. Look at what a polarizing figure he is. His attitude is "if you're not with me, get out of my way," which would not serve him well in political life. If he ever gets voted into office, it's because he's a celebrity/sports star.


He might polarize a bunch of nerds on an internet forum but the general public certainly doesn't have the same divided opinion.


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